HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU (macphil)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Times Arrow II (SPOILERS)
Date: 28 Sep 92 01:32:02 GMT
Organization: IUPUI

In article <ivy.717640039@camelot>
ivy@camelot.bradley.edu (Ivelisse Atiles) writes:
 
>
>I don't know if anyone's thought about this or not, but...
>wouldn't it have been difficult for a Black woman during
>the late 19th century to have such a high socio-economic
>standing?
 
possibly and even probably difficult, but a lot of it depended
upon geography.  remember that California was still "wild country"
and not necessarily as "civilized" as the remainder of the young
country.
 
while we're looking @ stereotypes from the past, did you know there
were African-Americans who owned plantations and had their own slaves?
 
here's another blast from the past:  if you were to paint a picture of
a cowboy, what colour would their skin be?  did you know a sizeable
majourity were African-Americans?
 
 
 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: ac873@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Kimball)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Times Arrow - Booby Trap Link
Date: 28 Sep 1992 09:42:27 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ac873@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Kimball)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


Last night (here in Cleveburg) we got to see one of the antecedents to T-A. 
In "Booby Trap", Guinan indicates that she had been helped by a bald-headed
man when she was hurt.  I had been racking my brain trying to remember this
incident.  I am sure there is another.

Know of others?


T.
From: bp652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gil W. Lau)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Are you NUTS? (Realm of Fear *SPOILERS*)
Date: 4 Oct 1992 23:46:54 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bp652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gil W. Lau)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Realm of Fear seemed to miss an episode, so to speak.  Barclay
asked Geordi if he ever experienced something amiss during 
transport, and Geordi says he never had.  Boy, I REALLY misunderstood
"The Next Phase"!  If you don't call THAT a transporter accident....

(Sorry if someone pointed this out already, but here in tiny
Blacksburg we get new episodes at the end of the week.  *sigh*)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: m14494@mwvm.mitre.org (Mike White)
Subject: TA: II comments.  No spoilers, but who cares... ?
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:14:28 GMT

I havent' read many of the TA: II comments, as I just got around
to seeing it this weekend, so someone may have alreadly made this
comment:

BORING!

All the posts about inconstant this, and paradoxical that just
completely miss the point.  For me, this was one of the most
boring ST episodes ever!  Hardly anything happened, and it
was mostly chit-chat and period-piece costumes.  Maybe I
missed the point somewhere along the line, but give me
zooming spaceships and blazing phasers any day.

************************
* These are my opinions only.*
************************
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: aephel01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: questions about TAII
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 13:11:22 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

** SPOILERS **





                                                    ** SPOILERS **


                               ** SPOILERS **


   


              ** SPOILERS **






   ** SPOILERS **

                                               ** SPOILERS **


                                                   ** SPOILERS **





I'm trying to wade through all the posts about TAII but I have
a question.  Why was there an explosion when Data grabbed the
snake?  And what exactly was the snake, why was it frozen in the
shape of a cane?


-- no sig necessary --
       Aza
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams)
Subject: Promos for: MAN OF THE PEOPLE (#229)  [plus YATI notes]
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 23:36:58 GMT

Promos for the next new ST:TNG episode: "Man of the People" (#229) were 
released today.  The actual program will air starting on Saturday, October
3rd.  Following this will be the new episodes:  Relics, Schisms, Q-Me...


Here is the promo copy (announcer):

COUNSELOR TROI FALLS PREY TO AN ALIEN'S SEDUCTIVE POWERS...

  [ Troi and man each holding a glowing rock ]

 Troi:  Strength comes from love.

  [ Picard and man, talking ]

 Man:  I have no intention of releasing her now or ever.

  [ In 10-Forward: Troi with gray hair, wearing very revealing dress ]

  [ Troi holding a knife, struggling with Picard in the transporter room ]

  [ Troi with Riker ]

 Troi:  I need you.

  [ She rakes his neck with her nails, leaving multiple 
    red scratch marks; Riker looks shocked ]

  [ Bev talking to Picard ]

 Bev:  Deanna's condition is deteriorating rapidly.

  [ Gray haired Troi enters her quarters ]

 Troi:  <screaming>  NO!!!!!!  

 WILL TROI PAY THE ULTIMATE PRICE FOR UNBRIDLED PASSION?

  [ OLD Troi on biobed in Sickbay ]

  [ in Ready Room ]

 Picard:  Counselor Troi is dying.

...ON AN ALL NEW EPISODE OF STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION.


Short promo:
  Seductive alien powers force Troi to pay the ultimate price,
  on Star Trek: The Next Generation.


<< "Realm" YATI alert: after 4 seasons, LT O'Brien has suddenly 
   lost his normal two pips... replaced by a single hollow pip.  
   Retroactive changes seem to be afoot.  Other pip-problems 
   include LT Barclay's single/hollow pips swapping position. >>

-{ Dean Adams }-

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: tzcf1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Subject: still looking for galactica models
Reply-To: tzcf1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 18:20:04 GMT

I'm STILL searching for Battlestar Galctica Model kits including the
galactica, cylon, viper, basestar etc.  I would greatly appreciate
any hints!

Drop me a line if you want to chat... about that or the following subj:
galactica, star trek tng, sci fi channel, etc.
tzcf1@isuvax.bitnet

Jesse Chen
From: boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 22:19:50 GMT
Subject: Re: Glaring Inconsistency (tm) (IMHO) in Time's Arrow Part One
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current

Simple answer - *gonna* is not a contraction.  It is nothing more than slang.

************************************************
* Donald Boell - Hewlett Packard               *
*                                              *
* When you're chewing on life's gristle        *
* Don't grumble, give a whistle - Monty Python *
*                                 Life of Brian*
************************************************


Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current,rec.arts.startrek.fandom,rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: aberigan@nde.unl.edu (A. Berigan)
Subject: Re: Star Trek Chess
Organization: Ord High School, Ord, NE
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 17:33:11 GMT

rodean@fc.hp.com (Bruce Rodean) writes:

>There were several games played in the episode where Riker, Deanna and
>Luxwana Troi are kidnapped by the Ferengi.  Riker plays a game with the
>Ferengi guard and gets let of their cell to complete the game after
>nearly quitting.

Thing is, 2 different types of chess were played.  On the Enterprise,
they played Tri-dimensional chess, which has 3 4x4 and 4 2x2 boards,
while on the Ferengi ship, they played 3-dimensional chess, using 3 8x8
boards aligned.  The 3-D ones are available in stores from different
manufacturers.  I have yet to see Tri-D boards available.

>Bruce Rodean                          Hewlett-Packard Company
>rodean@fc.hp.com

-- 
aberigan@nde.unl.edu (Greg Berigan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: lowerjc@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (J. Craig Lowery)
Subject: Re: Time's Arrow II **Spoilers**
Organization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA
Distribution: USA
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:30:28 GMT

In article <1601@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca> tibor@server.uwindsor.ca (TORONYI TIBOR            ) writes:
>DANGER DANGER WILL ROBINSON
>
>SPOILER ALERT for Time's Arrow


>Has anyone come up with the thought that if Picard had not been there
>no one would have known that Guinan was injured and therefore she might
>have died in that cavern.

That was the whole reason Guinan urged him to go with the away team in TAI.
She said "Because if you don't go, we'll never meet," meaning she would
have snuffed it in the cave, and, subsequently, not become 10 forward
barkeep 500 years later.

<Craig>

Craig Lowery
Mississippi College
lowery@AuE.com



Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: techy@iastate.edu (Technobabblonian)
Subject: Re: Time's Arrow (Spoilers_
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:21:58 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.115523.22546@panix.com> tkelsey@panix.com (Tom Kelsey) writes:
>
<...>>and I'm still trying to figure out WHY GUINAN was there?????? in
>the 19th Century.

Don't worry, it will play a part in the next season.


-- 
-Troy Rutter        |  Another Budding Programmer of the rare
Iowa State Univ.    |      species of technobabblonians.
Project Vincent     |
    "Beware Romulans bearing GIFs."  -me with apologies to De.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: rsvanc00@mik.uky.edu (Randolph S. Vance)
Subject: Re: Time's Arrow Paradox [spoilers] You have it all wrong! *The
    <rsvanc00.717959224@mik.uky.edu> <2OCT199216362911@reg.triumf.ca>
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 20:28:49 GMT

If you will also remember, the inscription on the watch read
"To S. C."

Riker noticed THAT little detail!

I prefer Harlan Ellison's concepts of elastic time over those of
something like the concepts of "Terminator 2: Judgement Day"

And here's ANOTHER theory, not about the watch, but about Capt.
Picard sending a message through Data's head.

Why didn't Capt. Picard simply write a letter to be delivered
by Guinan to Riker 500 years later? Something like this:

"Will,

I have interrogated the female alien left behind in the cavern.
She has told me that using normal weapons to destroy the
cavern on Davidia II would have catastrophic effects to 19th
century Earth. I have come to the conclusion that you must use
phase discriminators in the Photon Torpedos to effectivly eliminate
the aliens and their base on Davidia II.

                                     Jean-Luc Picard"

Hey, why not? :) Marty McFly and Dr. Emmett Brown did it, why
can't Capt. Picard? :)

--------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Randolph S. Vance
 
              RSVANC00@mik.uky.edu (NeXT Mail)
              RSVANC00@ukpr.uky.edu
              RSVANC00@ukcc.uky.edu
 
QUOTE: "I'll watch some TV, it'll help me to RELAX!"
              -Ren Hoek
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: james@cadillac.Eng.Sun.COM (James Mangin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Klingon home world's name revealed!
Date: 2 Oct 1992 01:24:34 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: james@cadillac.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: cadillac

I heard a long time ago that the Klingon home world is called "Klingus".

CAn't remember when or where...

---
James Mangin                           |"Alone on a midnight passage,
Sun Microsystems Computer Corporation  |I can't count the falling stars
Mountain View, California              |While the Southern Cross & the satellites
                                       |they remind me of where we are" - Jimmy Buffett
From: runyan@cup.hp.com (Mark Runyan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Federation Starships
Date: 1 Oct 92 19:44:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: cup.BvGK66.M7F
Organization: HP, Cupertino, CA, USA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Joshua Henry Geurink (aodn307@bongo.cc.utexas.edu) wrote:
>However, would it really kill the Enterprise to decisively win >>one<< battle?
>The borg crushed them -- OK, I can see that.  But why does every new race 
>the E encounters have superior weaponry, better maneuvering capabilities, and
>a faster warp engine?

You mean like the races in the episode "The Outrageous Okana" or perhaps
the Cardassians, or the Romulans during the Klingon Civil War (or even
the Romulans during "The Defector")?  It seems to me that there is some
selective memory being used here.

Mark Runyan
From: brown@vidiot.UUCP (Vidiot)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Will we have to pay to see Star Trek?
Date: 27 Sep 92 18:23:43 GMT
Reply-To: brown@vidiot.UUCP (Vidiot)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Vidiot's Hangout

In article <1992Sep26.161843.2684@wkuvx1.bitnet> kinnema@wkuvx1.bitnet (Mark Kinney, Attorney at Chaos) writes:
<In article <4164@vidiot.UUCP>, brown@vidiot.UUCP (Vidiot) writes:
<> There are technologies that exist currently, and they are called video tape
<> and laserdisc.  I'm sure that you have heard of them.  With this neat batch
<> of technological goodies, you can watch any of these programs whenever you
<> want.  Not only that, you can watch them without commercials and annoying
<> station logos.
<> 
<There's a similar problem with those that you have with cable
<(although not at the same level) - not everyone has or can afford a
<vcr, let alone the immense tape collections neccessary to get the
<episodes after they vanish from our sight.

VCRs are cheap.  While I don't personally care for cheap VCRs, they can come
in handy for playing tapes.

As for the ST material, all of the original series is on tape.  Go to your
favorite video dealer and rent it.

Yes, I know it can cost money to build up tape collections.  If you can't
afford to build up a library, then rent the title that you want to see.

<> I suggest that you look into the above mentioned technology and lay off
<> bitching about what the Sci-Fi Channel manages to purchase.
<> 
<I suggest that you stop flaming other people for worrying not
<neccessarily that ST won't be on anymore, but this whole
<exclusive-righs thing that means some series might *never* be seen
<again if the SF Channel decided they're not bringing in enough
<revenue, but don't want to sell them off... (sure, it doesn't sound
<logical, but tell me that a rating system where none of several
<hundred thousand people can watch a show, but they did just because
<one family did...)

I'm posted because the original poster made it sound like there were no
other alternatives available in which to see the episodes.  There are always
other alternatives.  All is not lost because the Sci-Fi channels buys up
all of the available rights.
-- 
      harvard\                          spool.cs.wisc.edu!astroatc!vidiot!brown
Vidiot  ucbvax!uwvax..........!astroatc!vidiot!brown
      rutgers/            INTERNET:vidiot!brown%astroatc.UUCP@spool.cs.wisc.edu
                                   brown@wi.extrel.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: c60a-lc@danube.Berkeley.EDU (Chris Silva)
Subject: Brent Spiner on Tales...
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 03:17:58 GMT

Newsgroups: rec.art.startrek.current
Subject: Brent Spiner on Tales....
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: world
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Keywords: 

I don't know how many of you caught it, but the Tales from the Darkside with
Brent Spiner starring was on the Sci-Fi channel this evening.  I just flipped
the channel and caught it about half way through.  Too bad, I would have 
liked to have taped it...oh well.

Chris Silva
c60a-lc@danube.berkeley.edu

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell)
Subject: Re: Forward Time Travel?
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 20:12:28 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <1992Oct1.000110.27244@morrow.stanford.edu> AT.MLM@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark Miller) writes:
>  Now, am I correct in concluding that no TOS or TNG
>episode has ever involved the Enterprise or one of its crew going
>*forward* in time? 

Well, one can argue that Khan & crew time-traveled forward in
Space Seed, as did the sleepers on that hokey TNG episode (I
can't recall the name). And Rasmussen(sp?) from the 22nd century
bopped about in his stolen machine...

But no, no _crew_ member as actually gone forward in time, in the
sense that you mean (going forward _past_ when they normally
are). The closest would be Riker's 'dream' (again, I forget the
name), where he was captain, Picard was an Ambassador, and there
was a Ferengi officer. 

[lotsa good stuff snipped out]

>I'm concerned with, in part, is how one *prevents* the future from
>changing, given that one has knowledge of it.  Or can you?)

It all depends on what your interpretation of time travel is. I
adhere to the 'inevitability theory', that you just can't change
anything, and the future/past/present are safe and constant.
Millenium had its 'time quakes', Back To The Future had its
fading Marty, but Trek manages to mix and match and generally
avoid the question. 

The crew of the big-e seem to accept what the universe throws at
them, or at least Picard does, (can you imagine Worf in command? :) 
and try to prevent anyone from screwing around with the past, eg,
Rasmussen, so IMHO, Picard would try to slip quietly back to the
past. Its been shown that he won't try to take advantage of
knowledge of future events (the episode with the duplicate
Picard, for ex.)

Then there's the tecnical problems of travel forward. No, not
slingshots and warp physics, I mean the problems for Sternback,
Okuda, and the rest of the crew - ST:TNG is as futuristic as we
in the 1990s can accept easily, and its marginally cheap enough
to produce to make it practical. The same was probably true of
TOS in the 60s. Deep Space 9 should be slightly more advanced
than TNG, with Odo the shapeshifter morphing all the time, but
there are three options for time-travel forward: Do it into the
far future (effects are too hard), the near future (if the show
keeps playing that long, you're stuck), or within a single
episode. Thats practical, but I don't think it would be novel
because of the number of times something similar has been done.

Joshua
|         A shimmering net undulating like an infinite borealis.             |
|                                                  - Chapterhouse: Dune      |
|                                                                            |
| jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca  Academic Computing Services, University of Calgary |
From: dliu@ark.njit.edu (Dong Liu)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Computer on Enterprise
Date: 28 Sep 92 04:54:35 GMT
	<1992Sep23.073412.9804@bsu-ucs.uucp>
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, NJIT
X-News-Reader: GNUS 3.14.1 for GNU Emacs 18.58.3


>>>>> Regarding Re: Computer on Enterprise; 00rdharringt@bsu-ucs.uucp (Rob Harrington) adds:

Rob> And another thing, if all you have to do is say "Computer" what happens
Rob> when the word "Computer" comes up in casual conversation?

All you need is to say "Escape, Computer." :=).

--dong
--
Dong Liu  <dliu@ace.njit.edu>
Electrical and Computer Engineering Department
New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, NJ 07102
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: matt@unidata.ucar.edu (Matt Hicks)
Subject: Re: Inconsistencies in "Time's Arrow II" (NO SPOILERS)
Organization: Scientific Computing Division/NCAR Boulder, CO
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 22:52:28 GMT

>I agree about the actor, even thought the writers did their best to
>assinate the character (as covered here by others in exhuastive detail).

>My only problem is that they made him up to look far too *old*. Clemens
>had roughly 20 years to live at the time of this story, but they made
>him look like he did just before he died (i.e. in his mid '70s). Did
>that character look like a man in his mid '50s to you? Especially one
>who had not had an espcially rough life? It looked more like the production
>people were trying to imitate James Whitmore playing Twain (probably
>the most familar visual reference we have now) than the real thing.

>- Jack


Jack? as in Jack London? The Jack London who shows up for no good reason
and cleverly gets sent off to Alaska? :-) Maybe he got hold of that machine
Data built and left behind, and now he's just time hopping around and 
posting to the net?!
--
_________________________________________________  /\_/\  _________________
Matthew  B.  Hicks     | Unidata Program Center | ((ovo))  The spotted owl:
matt@unidata.ucar.edu  | UCAR, PO Box 3000      | ():::()  the other "other
 303/497-8676	        | Boulder, CO 80307-3000 |   VVV    white meat."   
From: carlson@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Richard Carlson)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 23:17:44 GMT
Subject: Re: Time's Arrow Part II *SPOILERS*
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current

In rec.arts.startrek.current, markb@spock.dis.cccd.edu (Julie Bixby) writes:

> In article <1992Sep21.221539.5342@tin.monsanto.com> lesnyd@monsanto.com (Larry E. Snyder) writes:
> >*SPOILERS* for Time's Arrow Part II

> >I'm still trying to figure out how Geordi made Data's 500-year-old head work
> >so well, considering that it had a 12% degradation in the metal...

Even worse was how Data connected that degradation to his own mortality in
TA I.  If the degradation wouldn't hurt, then Data would have known that,
and wouldn't have made a big deal about it.

> >How Mark Twain could see the Enterprise and not ever write it down somewhere
> >in his memoirs...

Even worse is how nosy he is throughout parts I and II, and his increasing
insistence to tell people about these visitors from the future, and then
with a simple "oh, they're good guys" he apparently forgets all about them.

> >Or how these aliens came to depend ENTIRELY on human neural energy...
> >
> Yes, and how the Away Team got their 19th Century clothing so fast (did
> they jump into a store, by chance?

In general, it seems the writers of part II forgot all about part I, and
hoped that their audience would do the same.  All of the hints and
foreshadowing that were sprinkled through part I were disregarded.

I figured we were in trouble from the opening moments of the show:  at the
end of TA I, we had three important threads running along: Twain listening
to Data & Guinan's conversation, the away team popping into 19th century
San Francisco, and Worf taking over command of the Enterprise.  At the
beginning of TA II, how many of these threads were picked up?  *Zero*.
We're left to guess how each of these situations got resolved.  And the
rest of the show also related to TA I only superficially.

> >But, hey, that's literary license, no?
> No.
No.  That's poor writing.  Don't get me wrong; I enjoyed watching the
episode, I was just very disappointed in how it was written.  For contrast,
take Back to the Future II, which I consider excellently written.  First,
consider that BTTF I was supposed to stand on its own (and that only the
greedy hands of the studio forced a sequel to be made); that they couldn't
get the female lead back (who you would have expected to have a major part,
based on BTTF I); and that one of the big plusses of BTTF I -- historical
accuracy -- couldn't be drawn upon when you place BTTF II in the future.
Then, consider what they did with BTTF II:  seamlessly connect it to BTTF I,
carefully explain the seeming-inconsistencies, then work its way back into
the realm of the known, and even shed more light on events in BTTF I that
you may not have realized needed explaining (such as why Biff was so
"attracted" to Marty's mom in the school parking lot).

The TA writers had *no* obstacles like those to overcome, and yet they
still couldn't write a good sequel.  Now, maybe it's unfair to compare
Star Trek to a movie; but I can't help holding up higher standards for
Star Trek than for other TV shows.

-- Richard