From: 8800529@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU ()
Subject: Re: MIRacles No. 13
Organization: school of Mathematics UNSW
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 01:41:20 GMT

>
>That's not the point! Yes I do both speak and read Modern Greek, and I
>do subscribe to bit.listserv.hellas (though I'll admit to finding Greek
>written in Roman characters very hard going indeed; sometimes I have to
>write it out in Greek characters before I can understand it!). But that
>doesn't justify this group being such a mess. I also subscribe to the
>German, Italian, and spanish groups. They seem to be able to have varied
>and vigorous discussions on a range of subjects without difficulty (in
>general - there are a few cases of bad behaviour) - so why can't the
>Greek group do this. Try to understand what I'm saying - I don't blame
>all Greeks when the likes of Panos Tamamidis foam at the mouth and
>throw tantrums in public. All nations have their burdens to bear! I do
>blame them, though, for letting people like that set the tone of the
>group and dominate the discussion. 
>
>Not long ago, someone tried to get people to post Greek poetry here. That
>was great! - while it lasted. 

	You see there is a technique that is consitent in stopping that
kind of converstions. Initialy when I started there were frequent posts
in s.c.g were posters would type up NEWS from greece, converse subject
topics like recepies, travel, summer memories, and stuff like that.
Now what could stop that that does not exist in other groups.
	Well this group has had cosistent attacks from people like
the now (possibly) gone mutilu, and the present Argic. They post consisten
bulshit to multiple groups. There are quite a few other that do the same.
Imagine you are a ... whatever say Greek. And you are conversating with a
Turkish friend. Then another Turk butts in and starts abusing the Greek
goverment. What would your reaction be ? Support Greece blame turkey.
Now you friend reacts negatively. Bang friendship on the rocks. 
	You yourself now see a problem in Greeks. You correct it by
saying not all greeks yet you as a group are the exeption. How about if 
I said not
all Turks but if ther is a group that terorises the net with increadable 
folowup lines then it would be none other than Turks. A Turk would definately
see this, click in defence mode, flame thrower on simple psyicology of which
I also am part of it.

>> 
>>>I do find it very offensive when someone who puts forward a view which I
>>>know to be defensible on the basis of the evidence, and which is held by
>>>a number of decent sound scholars (even when I disgree with it myself),
>>>is abused, insulted, and accused of being biased, anti-Greek, and
>>>ignorant.
>> 
>> Well, if you are refering to A.T.Fear, I dissagree with some of
>> the characterizations attributed to him, but I beleive he is
>> biased in a more-than-normal degree. At the very end give
>> Greeks the benifit of the doubt...
>
>No I wasn't referring to Andy Fear, who can look after himself (though I
>don't think you can claim that everyone who disagrees with you is
>biased - though you may say that they are wrong). But I have been
>accused myself of being anti-Greek, and biased, and knowing not even the
>most elementary facts about ancient history. Yet I have always tried to
>be reasonable, polite (though I will confess to moments of irritation),
>and responsive to other people's views. What do people who throw these
>wild accusations about hope to achieve? Do they think it will persuade
>me? Or other people? Or is it just psychotherapy? Vigorous and
>hard-hitting argument is one thing, but personal abuse suggests lack of
>confidence in the strength of your arguments. Why? The Greeks have a very
>good case.
>
>But to get back to the main point, I don't think any user has the right
>to say that the group should be restricted to other users of the same
>kind. You cannot assume that everyone who reads this group is like you.
>In fact, in response to my original posting I have already had mail
>messages from people who are both interested and well informed. I have
>learned things I didn't know before. So the posting was appropriate. I
>rest my case. 

	What is your position on cases like Mutilu that is obviouly
trashed the net law ? How do you stop them. Is there something you
find uacceptable ? A kill file is your solution. But attracting
new readers to this group and the opening 20 messages being about how
x killed, raped, shot, murdered .... y might put him off. He/She migh
even get an opinion about Greeks or Turks which is entierly untrue.
How do we stop that. I would've been for a global kill file that is updated
acording to elections every time an Mutulu character shows up


>
>[deletions]
>> 
>> 
>> PS If you come down to London for a weekend, why not discuss
>> all this over a cup of coffee (or a glass of wine/beer)?
>
>I may just take you up on that one day, Panayotis!
>> 
>> --
>
>Richard Wallace

	George

Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:9620 soc.culture.bulgaria:1508 soc.culture.yugoslavia:9086