HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sieh@panix.com (Lui Sieh)
Subject: Re: Asian-American Political Agenda? (was Re: What is Asian ?)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 22:14:08 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <1992Nov19.021802.11891@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> 
ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) writes:
>In article <YAMAUCHI.92Nov18182145@yuggoth.ces.cwru.edu> yamauchi@ces.cwru.edu
> (Brian Yamauchi) writes:
>>Is there a unifying Asian-American political agenda beyond fighting
>>anti-Asian racism?  My guess is probably not.
>
>My question is "Isn't opposition to anti-Asian racism enough, in and of
>itself, to justify some degree of political unity?"  I'd argue yes.

No one has been arguing against this, including me.  What has been said,
however, is that this by itself is not a *sufficient* unifying political
force.  In other words, it can definitely help bring people together but
it isn't necessarily the glue that holds people together.  This is a point
that I've reiterated.  This seems very puzzling to many people but I don't
see how, really.  

>You don't hear responses to hate crimes like,
>[examples deleted]

I have on occasion have heard those sentiments uttered surreptitiously.
People who believe in these things do exist and for all we know, they 
can be closet racists that could be among our friends.
-- 
//Lui Sieh
Dum loquimur, fugerit invida Aetas: carpe diem, quam minimum postero.  
Horace, Odes, I.xi.7;	<-- "Why post to USENET?" -Brian O.  Indeed.
What about my opinions?   ====>>   /dev/null     or    sieh@panix.com 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: moon@acca.nmsu.edu ('short attention span theater')
Subject: rejecting your heritage
Organization: Alternative Collegiate Computing Association
Distribution: soc.culture.asian.american
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:26:41 GMT

In a world of plenty where there are enough jobs and houses
and SO's to share, people will be glad to help each other.
It will be easy to be alone and fend for yourself.

But when times get scarce, people will band together.
Usually along family, religious and ethnic lines.
They will help each other get jobs, shelter, food and dates.

-- 
name:    Jonggu Moon               Appearance:   ///\\         ^>*<^
nick:    Jon                                     -o-o-
address: Home is where I log in.                 ( o )
Phone:   just send me mail :P                    /   \
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,alt.discrimination
From: llp7q@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Linda L. Phillips)
Subject: Call for Artwork and Art Papers
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:24:27 GMT

              CALL FOR ARTWORK AND ART PAPERS
               FOR THE SPRING 1993 ISSUE OF
               IRIS: A JOURNAL ABOUT WOMEN


IRIS features articles, original fiction and poetry, art, book reviews, humor,
news, and personal essays focusing on women's issues.  We write for an intel-
ligent and varied audience of both sexes.  We are a non-profit organization,
staffed by volunteers, and publish twice yearly, in November and April.

If you are interested in contributing to IRIS, please submit two clear copies
of all manuscripts, and use language sensitive to differences in gender,
sexual orientation, and race.  Follow the parenthetical MLA style.  Final
decisions rest with the editorial board.  Send SASE if you wish your work
returned.

Original artwork should be submitted in the form of high quality black and
white prints or halftones.  We welcome work pertaining to women's issues
and women's involvement in the arts, and are particularly interested in
featuring experimental, less conventional work.

Art features may be reviews, interviews, or essays on contemporary or
historical artists working in any media.  Features should be 500-1000 words,
typed and double-spaced, and include black and white prints or halftones of
the work discussed.

                     SUBMIT FIRST DRAFT OR ABSTRACT BY JAN 8 1993

                          ADDRESS ALL CONTRIBUTIONS TO

ART OR ART FEATURES EDITOR,IRIS,BOX 323 HEALTH SCIENCES CENTER, UNIVERSITY
OF VIRGINIA, CHARLOTTESVILLE, VA  22908    (TEL) (804) 924-4500

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ac6144@albnyvms.bitnet
Subject: re: kanji
Reply-To: ac6144@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 17:30:48 GMT

I would like to clarify this particular matter up. I merely posted in this
newsgroup in response to an earlier post by an individual who questioned the
use of kanji by the Japanese. As I was not aware of an alternate newsgroup that
it might have appeared in, I answered the question to the best of my abilities. 

As for the statement that Japanese language does not pertain to asian american
issues, well, that's a question of perspective. In my opinion, Japanese culture
IS an A-A issue and a facet of the culture is the language. 

Another point you raised is the question of my advocating or not advocating the
learning of kanji by asian americans. I do not advocate the learning of kanji
but then again, I also do not NOT advocate it. I think it is a matter of
personal choice. If one chooses to learn about that particular aspect of a
culture, then more power to them. But I also do not condemn persons who choose
not to learn about it. I DO, however, hope that a minimal knowledge of the
history of kanji is present. Especially for those who are curious. 


-JS
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Subject: Re: Sticking Together (was Re: What is Asian ?)
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 09:50:55 GMT

In aritcle <1992Nov18.203234.6154@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) writes:
>Hmm, given the percentages of the various racial groups in the US,
>these statistics suggest that *everyone* is sticking to his/her own
>group, and that the groups aren't sticking to each other.  (That
>sounds pretty gross, doesn't it? :-))

Yes, it does sound kind of gross.  But aside from that, I don't quite agree
with the statement "*everyone* is sticking to his/her own group."  Yes, it
is true that each racial group is intermarrying at less than what truly random
interactions should give you.  However, if it's true that Asians and Native
Americans are outmarrying at a 40-70% rate, well, it sounds quite funny to me
to say that a group of people who are outmarrying at a 70% rate are "sticking
together."  Maybe a better way of phrasing it is to say they aren't as "broken
apart" as they should be.

In any event, just to clarify my position, (1) when I made my previous
comments about "sticking together," I wasn't necessarily referring just to
marriage patterns, and (2) I wasn't criticizing any group, whites or otherwise,
for "sticking together."  People have been doing it for centuries.

>   [Clare's deletion of Lui's assertion that whites have to stick
>    together in the face of anti-white hostility and Jim's challenge
>    to Lui's statement in the context of 40s and 50s racial policy
>    deleted for brevity. :-)]

Hmm, wouldn't it have been shorter if you had simply included the deleted
parts?  :-) :-) :-)

[This is Big Game week, and the good guys are going to lose yet again.
 Therefore, I can and will make smart-ass comments like this to people
 I know on the Farm.  :-) ]

Jim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.japan
From: wcheung@shearson.com (Wansan Cheung)
Subject: any non-cyberspace groups that meet ?
Reply-To: wcheung@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:09:54 GMT

like the subject line states, are there ? preferrably in ny. i'm more or less
looking for something like an regular informal social gathering of asian 
professionals or students where people meet, talk, network, maybe share a 
few laughs and hang out. i'm also pretty sure that i'm not the only one who 
would like to know about or to see something like this. i mean, there are a lot of
issues of importance and frankly i am curious to hear comments or ideas on how to 
deal with some of them. if there isn't such a group how about we get one started ? 
any suggestions, signups, comments, names, ideas would be greatly appeciated.

ps: anyone up for dim sum in chinatown anytime soon ? :~.) <-[cindy crawford smiley]
---
-dave
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|wcheung@sarek.shearson.com          |beta test: v. To voluntarily entrust    |
| work: 212-640-9283     	     |one's data, one's livelihood and one's  |
|pager: 212-812-6969 		     |sanity to hardware or software intended |
| home: yeah, right!	 	     |to destroy all three.  In earlier days, |
|				     |virgins were often selected to beta test|
|no one here endorses my opinions    |volcanos.				      |
|because they can't afford to;	     |					      |
|what's your excuse ?		     |   				      |
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.discrimination
From: georgew@hspice.portal.com (George Wu)
Subject: Re: What is real racism? (Re: Was: Why rish asians should vote Republican)
Organization: Meta - Software
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 02:56:55 GMT

-
     Note: I've reduced the distribution somewhat, since this had little to
do with many of the groups to which the flamewar was originally crossposted.

In article <1992Nov20.034550.5984@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:

>(2) Mr. Wu accuses me of criticizing Chinese-cu culture using evidence
>    that, in Mr. Wu's opinion, is poor, illogical, or plain stupid.
>    Therefore, in Mr. Wu's opinion, the only reason for my criticism
>    of Chinese culture is an underlying racist hatred of Chinese-ge people.

> [ . . . ]

>Anyhow, I also choose to use Mr. Wu's logic in point #2.  Namely,

>     I accuse Mr. Wu of defending Chinese-cu culture using evidence
>     that, in my opinion, is poor, illogical, or plain stupid.
>     Therefore, in my opinion, the only reason for Mr. Wu's defense
>     of Chinese culture is an underlying racist hatred of non-Chinese-ge
>     people.

     Let me quote a few words upon which American ethics are based: innocent
until proven guilty.  In the absence of evidence proving otherwise, I do not
believe Chinese culture or any other culture of being inherently racist, of
practicing widespread child abuse, etc.  I don't *need* evidence to believe
Chinese society "innocent," as that's the underlying assumption until proven
otherwise.  My willingness to give the Chinese the benefit of the doubt is not
an indictment of me, but rather your refusal to do so is an indictment of your
beliefs.

							George


-- 
----
George J Wu,  georgew@hspice.portal.com or georgew@metasw.com
Meta-Software,  1300 White Oaks Road,  Campbell, CA 95008,  (408) 369-5400
Never be the first to believe.  Never be the last to deceive.  ---  Chess
From: bshieh@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Ben Shieh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: German mail-order bride request
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:48:42 GMT
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley


Did anyone save the thread started by that German guy traveling to
Thailand who requested mail-order bride info.  I was a little flustered when
I first read it and deleted all the messages after I read them.  I'd like
copies though of the original post and all responses.  We were just talking
about the subject in my Asian American Studies class, and I just wanted
to show the class.

-Ben
bshieh@cory.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu)
Subject: Re: Miscegenation Law in California 
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:40:31 GMT

In article <By4LFF.4KD@iat.holonet.net> wdrew@iat.holonet.net (Walter H. Drew) writes:
>I apologize for the previous defective posts of this message, which showed
>the header but no text. Here is the text.
>
>During the 1939s or 1940s was there a law which prevented marriage between
>Chinese and Caucasians in California? If so, would the law have applied to
>an Amerasian?
>
>A friend is writing a novel and wants to be correct on this point.
>

From my class notes, anti-miscegenation laws only applied to
white/non-white marriages.  (Apparently, the white legislators
didn't worry about all those inferior races interbreeding...,
indeed, there were significant numbers of Chinese/black marriages
in the late 19th century in the Deep South.)

The first one was passed in 1661 in Maryland.  Eventually, 38
states had them.  California passed one in 1880, and explicit
anti-"Mongolian" provision was added in 1905.  I do not know when
it was repealed.  Not until 1967 were the last ones in the nation
repealed.

Were Amerasians (mixed ancestry) included?  I don't know, but all
of these racist laws had trouble with boundary areas of these
supposedly clear-cut notions of race, so enforcement would probably
have been spotty.  For the WWII, Japanese-American Internment, there
were specific guidelines from the US Governement, including things like:
	A non-US-citizen Japanese-American male (naturalization was
		forbidden for non-whites at the time) married to
		a white, US-citizen female would both be interned.
	A non-US-citizen Japanese-American female married to
		a white, US-citizen male would both not be interned.
		(Women-as-property as official US Gov't policy?  What
		a surprise!)
	A US Citizen of mixed Japanese/white ancestry would not be interned
		only if his/her upbringing was "Caucasian".
	etc.

Hope this helps.  Anyone out there with better info?
						--Alan Hu
----------
I am not Arthur Hu.  I am NOT Arthur Hu.  I AM NOT ARTHUR HU.

I am not a neo-conservative writer for AsianWeek.  I did not go
to MIT.  I do not conduct phone surveys.  I am not married.
I do not believe in Dan Quayle's family values.

Arthur Hu is a fine person.  So am I.  We are not, however, the same person.
From: jimmy@clipper.ingr.com (Jimmy Blair)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: 50th Anniversary of Japanese Amer. Internment
Date: 21 Nov 92 02:32:14 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Intergraph Advanced Processor Division - Palo Alto, CA

In article <lgib28INN86q@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>, melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (Living on Planet Me) writes:
> 
> 	underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) :
> 	> Numerous twits, including Mr. Pan, had been trying to play 
> 	> e-mail games with me.  I reported all the activity to either 

	Seen any Black Panthers in your backyard lately?
	
> 	> the postmaster of the offending site or the administrator of 
> 	> my site.  This is not a joke. (I suspect that Ms. Cheung is 
> 	> aware of this, since she has never once sent me e-mail despite 
> 	> her gaming attitude on s.c.a.a.)
> 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,alt.discrimination
From: georgew@hspice.portal.com (George Wu)
Subject: Re: What is real racism? (Re: Was: Why rish asians should vote Republican)
Organization: Meta - Software
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 02:39:30 GMT

In article <BxKqLJ.Ivv@acsu.buffalo.edu> dtwei@acsu.buffalo.edu (Danielle T Wei) writes:
>In article <1992Nov11.210725.4787@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:

>As for my comments, I did not _attack_ anybody, I only stated some
>facts concerning a few important issues. No where in my original post
>did I say anything of the sort "all [ethnic group] are assholes/whatever"

    Yes, you did, by implication.  You stated that the Democratic Party is
not a place for Asian-Americans because it is controlled by blacks.  By
implication, blacks and Asian-Americans have no common cause.  Had you
come out and stated why, perhaps your post could have been interpreted
otherwise.  (For instance, you might have stated blacks generally support
affirmative action and Asians should not.  Disclaimer: As someone else has
already pointed out, a black man does not necessarily support affirmative
action.)

>As I've said before, I have much respect for African-Americans as a whole,
>but I do believe they discriminate against Chinese, can you disprove this?

     Fault #1: How is this statement any different to Dwight Joe's attacks
on Chinese-Americans?  Go ahead, swap "Chinese" and "African" in the above
sentence.  You're both attacking entire cultural groups, despite your
disclaimer.  Fault #2: A founding principle of American democracy is innocence
until proven guilty.  Having made an accusation, the burden of proof is not
upon anyone to prove blacks innocent of discrimination, but upon you to
produce evidence supporting your position.

							George


-- 
----
George J Wu,  georgew@hspice.portal.com or georgew@metasw.com
Meta-Software,  1300 White Oaks Road,  Campbell, CA 95008,  (408) 369-5400
Never be the first to believe.  Never be the last to deceive.  ---  Chess
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu)
Subject: Re: Discrimination in Marine Corps Officer Candidate School
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 23:11:12 GMT

In article <lgr7i5INNgvn@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (Living on Planet Me) writes:
>
>	underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) :
	[Dwight's standard Chinese-cu-bashing following a wonderfully
	informative post deleted.]
>
>OH CHRIST ON A STICK! You turn a perfectly good informational post
>into the same ol' Chinese bashing. 
>
>You are so obsessed.
>
>	Melinda

Gosh, I never thought I'd see the day when Melinda publically
deified Dwight as the Savior Incarnate!  So, is Dwight, in the
persona of Christ-on-a-Stick, Christianity's answer to the
Popsicle (tm)?  :-)
					--Alan Hu
----------
I am not Arthur Hu.  I am NOT Arthur Hu.  I AM NOT ARTHUR HU.

I am not a neo-conservative writer for AsianWeek.  I did not go
to MIT.  I do not conduct phone surveys.  I am not married.
I do not believe in Dan Quayle's family values.

Arthur Hu is a fine person.  So am I.  We are not, however, the same person.
From: yamauchi@ces.cwru.edu (Brian Yamauchi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Asian-American Political Agenda? (was Re: What is Asian ?)
Date: 18 Nov 92 18:21:45
Organization: Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: yuggoth.ces.cwru.edu
In-reply-to: achin@math.tamu.edu's message of Wed, 18 Nov 1992 02:00:33 GMT

With all of the discussion of whether Asian-Americans should vote
Republican or Democrat, and whether Asian-American student
organizations should be political or apolitical, I'd like to throw out
another question for discussion:

Is there a unifying Asian-American political agenda beyond fighting
anti-Asian racism?  My guess is probably not.

Certainly, all Asian-Americans have an interest in fighting anti-Asian
discrimination, prejudice, media stereotypes, and hate crimes --
regardless of their other political beliefs.  This means that AAs can
be unified in their opposition to racism, and in their support of
efforts to increase recognition of Asian-Americans as integral members
of American society.

Beyond this, however, I don't see Asian-Americans joining into a
quasi-unified political block in the same way as, for example,
African-Americans.

The African-American population seems to be predominantly liberal on
economic issues and some social issues (e.g. affirmative action), so
naturally, their support has gone overwhelmingly to Democratic
candidates.  In fact, the proportional disparity between votes for
Democrats and Republicans seems to be far higher for blacks than for
any other racial group in the U.S.

This is not to overlook the contributions of notable black
conservative intellectuals, such as Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams,
but they would be the first to admit that they are in the political
minority in the African-American community.

In contrast, the political views of the Asian-American population
seems to evenly divided among conservative and liberal viewpoints on
both economic and social issues.  I've met Asian-Americans who are
laissez-faire on economic issues, and those who are nearly socialist.
On social issues, the majority of Asian-Americans seem to be slightly
conservative (i.e. "family oriented"), but there is again, a wide
range of opinion, from conservative evangelical Christians to civil
libertarians.

What this means is that it's not at all clear that all Asian-Americans
should support the conservatives or the liberals, the Republicans or
the Democrats.  In practice, this probably means that while
Asian-Americans may be unified in their opposition to anti-Asian
racism, they will likely be divided in their other political
activities.

This is not necessarily a bad thing.  It simply means that individual
Asian-Americans will have to examine their own personal values and
beliefs and decide for themselves which political agendas (if any)
they will choose to support...
--
_______________________________________________________________________________

Brian Yamauchi			Case Western Reserve University
yamauchi@alpha.ces.cwru.edu	Department of Computer Engineering and Science
_______________________________________________________________________________
From: garyt@tekgen.bv.tek.com (Gary Terusaki)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: "Asians changing names to help job prospects"
Date: 17 Nov 92 23:07:31 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

In article <4920091@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, joanne@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Joanne Petersen) writes:
> This discussion reminds me of a story my father told me a long time ago
> (and which I cannot verify as the personnel are dead now)..... 
> 
> Dad once had a friend (or maybe he was just an acquaintance) named Jack Suzuki. 
> In the early 1940s, executive order 9066 made it rather awkward (to say the
> least) to be Japanese.  Mr. Suzuki decided to change his last name to Soo.
> 
> Yes, the same Jack Soo who went on to become a well-known actor.....
> 
> So was it justifiable for him to change his name to escape being interned?
> (And yes, he wasn't interned.)  (Or did my dad just make up this story?!)

A long time ago, my father told me essentially the same story.  However, he 
said that Jack Soo changed names because he was ashamed to be a
Japanese-American. 

In spite of being interned, my father is proud to be a Japanese-American.
He is also very proud of our cultural heritage.  Because of this,
he thinks that Jack's actions and shame are completely unforgivable. 

For myself, I won't pass judgment on Jack because I can't even imagine 
what he and my father had to face during this difficult period of our
history.  If my father is correct, I can only say that this is very sad.
Everyone should feel proud about the positive accomplishments of their culture.
They should not have to feel guilt or shame for the acts of others.


Gary
-- 
Gary Terusaki  : Tektronix, Inc.      : "Do, or do not.  There is no try."
UNIX Software  : Box 500, DS 50-454   :      -- Yoda
(503) 627-2309 : Beaverton, OR  97077 : "Timeless words." -- gbt
From: Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Miscegenation Law in California (Re-repost)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 17:54:45 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

...lots of nothing...

I didn't see anything posted, but it was illegal for an Asian to marry
a white in either order until the mid-50's. So people who did it had to
go out of state to have the wedding done. PBS did a story about a white
woman who did this to marry her Japanese Am husband, and chose to go to
the camps with him. A really sad story.