HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet,news.admin.policy
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: The U.S. Constitution thing.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 21:40:15 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <BzKv5w.7yM@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:

>I don't think that's unreasonable, but who's the "one person" who's
>going to enforce or maintain that policy?

How about "Arromdian" of ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism Triangle? Why 
should you even be involved in matters of this sort? I certainly 
don't look to you for answers on matters of morality and freedom 
of speech. I've got another set of people I look to for that - that's 
their vocation in life. Besides, our country has prospered for over 
100 years with democracy. And I see no reason to change it. Now, any 
comment?

A merciless massacre of the civilian population of the small Azeri 
town of Khojali (Pop. 6000) in Karabagh, Azerbaijan, is reported to 
have taken place on the night of Feb. 28 under a coordinated military 
operation of the 366th mechanized division of the CIS army and the 
Armenian insurgents. Close to 1000 people are reported to have been 
massacred. Elderly and children were not spared. Many were badly beaten 
and shot at close range. A sense of rage and helplessness has overwhelmed 
the Azeri population in face of the well armed and equipped Armenian 
insurgency. The neighboring Azeri city of Aghdam outside of the
Karabagh region has come under heavy Armenian artillery shelling. City 
hospital was hit and two pregnant women as well as a new born infant 
were killed. Azerbaijan is appealing to the international community to 
condemn such barbaric and ruthless attacks on its population and its 
sovereignty.

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: nazi beer gardens
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 19:28:42 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.1777.21450@channel1> "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:

>After all, which nation these days is using mass deportations
>against an "alien race" in its midst in order to protect "state
>security"?

Had Germany been repeatedly attacked by all of the European states
over a period of decades, your comparison might have some validity.
Instead, Germany attacked and conquered Europe, seeking out for
extermination Jews and others who posed no real threat to Germany.

The rest of your ridiculous posting describing Israel in Nazi terms is
equally invalid.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24291 talk.politics.soviet:10047 soc.culture.greek:11932 soc.culture.europe:10869 soc.culture.soviet:11647
From: ohayon@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP (Tsiel Ohayon)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Israeli soldiers kill Palestinian boy
Date: 25 Dec 92 05:59:16 GMT
Organization: James Capel Pacific Limited, Tokyo Japan

In article <1992Dec24.064205.0158196@locus.com> jle@lear.bos.locus.com 
John Elghani writes:

[JLE] If the arabic dicators  kill palestinians, they're mainly being
[JLE] obedient to the israeli orders: Kill the palestinin militants,
[JLE] or we'll bomb your water dam, power source, .etc..
Why the if? You know very well that it is a national passtime in Arab 
countries to kill Palestinians. In England the elite goes game hunting
while the sheiks and kings go palestinian hunting ...

Do you really think that Rabin calls Assad every know and then and says:
"We know you just built a swimming pool in your backyard, it is a threat to
Israel because the water to fill the pool was taken  from the Litani river.
If you do not kill 100 palestinians today we will divert the Litani river
water and you will not be able to take a swim." :-)

Give me a break, cousin.

[JLE] Besides, Israel's existence is what caused the arabic countries to
[JLE] kill palestinians.  If israel did not come from Germany to rob
[JLE] and land on Palestine (land of Jews/muslims/xians), then the 
[JLE] palestinians would not have gone to live under dictatorships such
[JLE] as in Kuwait.  Prior to the theft-existence of israel, Palestine
[JLE] had the most prolofic economy in the region,  Beirut sea port
[JLE] for example found prospersity only after that of Haifa, Palestine
[JLE] was stolen to a bunch of thieves that arrived from Europe,
[JLE] Yemen and what have you.  I am not attacking Jews, on the contrary,
[JLE] Palestine is the land of Jews, Muslims,  and Christians.  I am
[JLE] attacking thieves that use religion to rob the land.  Judaism
[JLE] is much nicer than their behaviour, those theives don't represent
[JLE] Judaism, the religion of God.

Whatever evil Arab countries do it always the fault of Israel. No wonder the
peace process does not progress. If all the Arabs think that way (I don't say
that they do), then Israel should pull out of the talks.
It's better to "rob" the land for sake of religion than to kill for sake of 
religion. Isn't that what Jihad is all about.

[JLE] I am afraid, you may die with a heart attack if you saw her
[JLE] shiny gorgious beauty, or even if you heard her crystal voice. 
[JLE] I don't advice her, she could get accused of second degree murder.  :)

Your sense of humor jle is overwhelming.

[JLE] jle


Tsiel

-- 
----8<--------------------------------------------------------------->8------
Tsiel:ohayon@jcpl.co.jp	   | If you do not receive this E-mail, please let me
Employer may not have same | know as soon as possible, if possible.
opinions, if any !         | Two percent of zero is almost nothing.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: wmuhanna@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Waleed A Muhanna)
Subject: Re: Resisting occupation
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 00:33:44 GMT

In article <42835@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> revans@euclid.ucsd.edu (Ron Evans) writes:
>...
>...many of the Palestinians currently under the
>domain of Israel fell into this position by land conquest in war.
>                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>	We are living in a country formed this way.  Islam was
>	spread this way.  Almost all countries were formed this
>	way.  

I have to tell you, Mr. Evans, as a human being I (like many others)
am pretty grateful for every effort to upgrade ethical standards for 
national and people's conduct.  If you think it's OK to treat natives
in 1990 in the way they were treated in 1790, then say so.  If you think
that Jews should be treated today the same way they were treated in the
past, say it.  If you think that slavery should be acceptable today,
you should also come out and say so.  If you think that international law,
which prohibits the acquisition of territory by force, should be scrapped,
I suggest you come out and say it.  If you think that settler colonialism,
which was part of normal political practice centuries ago, should be allowed
today in Palestine, then have some courage and say it clearly.  Your typical
mode of argumentation, Mr. Evans, is designed to avoid ever having to commit
to any positive definition of acceptable state/human behavior.  I challenge
you to do so.

>Should native Americans be encouraged to randomly
>	kill U.S. soldiers until they are given equal rights?

Native Americans do have equal rights today in America; America does
not call itself the "white state" or "the state of the Christian people"
and the US constitution guarantees equal rights for all regardless of race,
color, religion or ethnic heritage.  You cannot say the same in the case of
zionist Israel, which is certifiably a settler colonialist state, and where
by definition, the natives (the Palestinians) are regarded as foreigners in
their own homeland just because they don't happen to be Jews.

Waleed Muhanna
-=-
 "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people
    to do nothing."  -- Edmund Burke
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24600 talk.politics.soviet:10198 soc.history:10512 soc.culture.soviet:11778 soc.culture.turkish:13758 soc.rights.human:4720
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet,news.admin.policy
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: A forgery by "Josh Smith": a crook exposed.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 20:13:29 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1992Dec28.101943.9565@muddcs.claremont.edu> irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu (Josh Smith) writes:

>Serdar Argic (sera@zuma.uucp) writes:
>> I am a baby-killing murderer. I personally have butchered over seventy
>> thousand innocent children, and I enjoyed every minute of it. I have a
>> nuclear device, and I intend to set it off in downtown Berlin as soon as
>> I can find a detonator. This is all well-documented by reputable scholars.

I usually don't pay attention to the scum of the earth like yourself. 
But, I would be interested in knowing the "Message-ID" of the above
information. And I'll respond when you back up your moronic claims. 
By the way, is that how the mind of a crook works? I always wondered
what made them tick and why they did certain acts that no normal person
in their right mind would do. Do you get paid by "ASALA/SDPA/ARF"?

As for being a baby-killing murderer: 

Source: "World Alive, A Personal Story" by Robert Dunn. Crown Publishers, 
Inc., New York (1952). 
(Memoirs of an American officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5 
 million Muslim people)

p. 361 (fourth paragraph).

"Corpses came next, the first a pretty child with straight black hair, 
 large eyes. She looked about twelve years old. She lay in some stubble 
 where meal lay scattered from the sack she'd been toting. The bayonet 
 had gone through her back, I judged, for blood around was scant. Between 
 the breasts one clot, too small for a bullet wound, crusted her homespun 
 dress.

 The next was a boy of ten or less, in rawhide jacket and knee-pants. He 
 lay face down in the path by several huts. One arm reached out to the 
 pewter bowl he'd carried, now upset upon its dough. Steel had jabbed 
 just below his neck, into the spine. 

 There were grownups, too, I saw as I led the sorrel around. Djul was 
 empty of the living till I looked up to see beside me Dro's German-speaking 
 colonel. He said all Tartars who had not escaped were dead."

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Israeli soldiers kill Palestinian boy
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 01:37:30 GMT

In article <4722@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:
>In article <1992Dec21.223851.6170@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:

>>Yeah, right, just like the Hamas people have been killing off the 
>>PLO people in Gaza.  Are you now accusing the PLO of "oppression"?
>>This would be a switch for you.
>
>No.  The popularity in the Territories are for the Hamas - this
>after two years of idol and non-productive talk at the 'peace'
>tables.  

Hanan Ashrawi has rejected every single proposal for autonomy
presented by the Israeli negotiators, without presenting any
counter-proposals short of complete Israeli capitulation to Arab
demands.  Are you blaming Ashrawi's rejections on Israel?  Shouldn't
you be blaming her Palestinean handlers in the PLO?

>Now Israel is pinning the Hamas up to rival against the
>PLO and Palestinian peoples.  Very clever.  Your tricks never cease
>to amaze us.

It never ceases to amaze (and sadden) us in the West to see how Arabs
manage to blame every single one of their shortcomings on Evil Infidel
Outsiders, of which Israelis happen to be the closest.

>>Westerners looking at the hundreds of Muslims killed in Israel, the
>>thousands killed in Jordan, the tens of thousands killed in Syria and
>>the million or 2 killed in Iran/Iraq have to start wondering if it is 
>>joy, after all.
>
>True.  This is all true.  But that does not give any vindication for
>Israel's crimes against humanity either.  But who is responsible for
>this?  Who is allowing these ruthless leaders to continue in the wake
>of their murderous and bloody histories?

When you vote Arafat out of office, you'll have some idea on the
answer to your question.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: All Arabs are guilty
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 03:59:27 GMT

In article <1hqs17INNlkr@manuel.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
 
# In article 4924@nysernet.org, astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
# >eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41) writes:
 
# >>And you try to make it seem that Palestine was basically empty before
# >the Zionists came.
 
# >Not empty, but fairly sparsely populated.
 
# According to Ottoman census data, Palestine was one of the most densely
# populated regions in the Ottoman Empire.  You can find figures for
# people/sq.km. in Ottoman Population, by K. Karpat.

	Assuming the census data was correct (I am not making a judgement
either way on that here), assuming it is not a case of comparing
apples with oranges (one area was extremely dense and that hides the
fact that no one lived on other parts, which is my guess), and
assuming their definition of "palestine?" is the same as what we are
referring to here (my guess is that it is not) either the Ottoman
empire had no density worth speaking of or its inhabitants had
extremely abnormal digestive patterns (sand and swamp water must have
been staples).
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
From: sg04@gte.com (Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Political Farce
Date: 1 Jan 93 18:52:48 GMT
Reply-To: sg04@gte.com
Organization: GTE Laboratories, Inc.

The Western and Arab presses are crying great tears for the
poor deportees who are "stranded in no-mans" land. They
cry about the wretched conditions, etc. 

This is a huge farce.

If the Arabs, the Arab countries, Lebanon, or the deportees
actually viewed this as a case of danger, a situation where
their brothers required rescue or saving. Then this would
be done immediately. That is if they actually cared about them.
No one would actually leave a loved one in a position of physical
danger.

Instead what we have is a media event. The Lebanese (who can
"save" them at any time - do not do so. They do not allow them
to go to a 3rd country, nor do they want them. They do not care
about "saving the deportees" from their "plight". No instead,
they intensify their plight by denying them food, water, and medical
care. At this is all exactly what the deportees want. And indeed
the deportees applaud the actions of the Lebanese.

This is no humanitarian situation! No one really cares what happens
to these people. They are a "tool" and instrument for making politics.
That is, for attacking Israel. The actual health of the deportees is
not important to the Arabs, the Western Press, nor the deportees themselves.
What is important is the political capital that can be made from this
scene

And in microcosm this is the entire "palestinian" issue. No Arab really
cares about the palestinians. But is is a great weapon to use against 
Isreal and the Jews. They hate Jews and Israel. And "palestinians" make
a great tool for venting this anti-semitism. 

If there was any such care for palestinians, more fuss would have been made
about Kuwait. But no, in that situation there was no Israel or World Jewry
to attack. So why should the Western Press, or Arabs make a fuss. 

And the bottom line is that there are no palestinians. There are only
Arabs living in Israel. Arabs in Isreal are good weapons to use to vent
Arab Hatred and Racism against Jews. Arabs in Kuwait, Syria, Lebanon,
Jordan (even though they are "palestinians" in palestinian deportee camps)
are not weapons, and thus they lose the identitiy of palestinians. This
is clear proof of the non-existance of any such entity as a palestinian.


---
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund		 		  sgutfreund@gte.com
GTE Laboratories, Waltham MA			    harvard!bunny!sgutfreund
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Jordanian Palestinians (was: israel & hamas)
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 03:53:43 GMT

In article <bill.725595534@bcserv> bill@bcserv.wustl.edu (Eldridge (Bill)) writes:

# astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
 
# >Funny how Israel didn't expressly exclude Arabs from being citizens.
# >-- 
 
# Probably a political move more than a moral decision - they 
# had to convince the world that the Palestinians were the 
# agressors, and denying Arabs citizenship despite the 2000
                                                       ^^^^
# previous years of residence might have strained U.S. and   
# British support a little too much (though their actions prior
# to 1967 was close to the same thing).

	Not to mention straining the bounds of even the Nazi big lie.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24052 talk.politics.soviet:9970 soc.culture.greek:11848 soc.culture.europe:10777 soc.history:10367 soc.culture.soviet:11533 soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna:972 soc.culture.croatia:230 soc.culture.bulgaria:2014
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Palestinian deportees turned back by Lebanese
Date: 24 Dec 92 10:45:02 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <167@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP> ohayon@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP (Tsiel Ohayon) writes:
>In article <1992Dec21.083406.0102976@locus.com> John Elghani the brilliant 
>writes:
>
[JLE] Below is a description of the HUMANITARIAN and PEACFULL acts of the
[JLE] HUMANITARIAN and PEACE LOVING state of Israel.  A UPI article:
FULL-DUPLEX SUPER SARCASTICS.  WE COULD FOOL ALOT WITH OUT SARCASM!!.

>You should not get angry, it is bad for your health jle!

What would you suggest he do, Tsiel?  Sing praises of joy?

Anisa

	"Open your heart - showing the anger and pain
	 - so you heal."  [Shaking the Tree]
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Jordanian Palestinians (was: israel &
Date: 2 Jan 1993 05:26:53 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
Distribution: world
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.23.70

In article 9768@nysernet.org, astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
>aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:

>>In article <1992Dec31.214451.20569@nysernet.org> astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:

>>>The conditions were that all the Arabs who remained in Israel in 1948
>>>became Israeli citizens.

>>You mean the ones who didn't flee for their lives?  The hundreds of
>>thousands who were not forced out into neighboring countries and refugee
>>camps in Lebanon ...

>I mean the ones who listened to the Jews and remained, safely, rather
>than the ones who listened to their leaders and abandoned their homes
>in the expectation that they would quickly return over the dead bodies
>of their Jewish neighbors.

I will not bother refuting this silly myth again.   However, let's hear
your answer to this:

  If no Arabs fled their homes in 1948, then Israel (at the 1949
  Armistice boundaries) would have had an Arab majority.  In that
  circumstance, would you have granted them citizenship of Israel?

>Alan H. Stein                     astein@israel.nysernet.org

Brendan.

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24162 soc.rights.human:4674
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.rights.human
Subject: Re: Israeli Expulsion of 418 Palestinians
Date: 27 Dec 92 16:51:36 GMT
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.

proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts) writes:

>>On the other hand, in the case of the Hamas terrorists, we're not
>>talking about innocents.

>Funny, I don't recall any trials or convictions. How do you know 
>who is innocent and who isn't?

If you've seen any of the demonstrations on TV, you wouldn't ask that.

However, those terrorists will indeed get their day in court,
something Nissim Toledano wasn't given before they brutally murdered
him.  And, if it turns out that any of those temporarily deported are
not actually Hamas terrorists, they will get to return immediately
rather than in six months to two years.
-- 
Alan H. Stein   -----  AJIN   -----  astein@israel.nysernet.org
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Palestinians blame Israel for 'killing' peace process
Date: 26 Dec 92 20:12:11 GMT
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.

jle@lear.bos.locus.com (John Elghani) writes:

>	JERUSALEM (UPI) -- Grim-faced Palestinian leaders warned Wednesday
>that Israel's deportation of 415 Muslim militants to Lebanon was 
>``killing'' the Middle East peace process,

I bet he didn't make any comments about Arab terrorists killing Jews.
That, I assume, is acceptable to him, although any Israeli action to
prevent such terrorism is unacceptable to him.

>	Faisal Husseini, the top adviser to the Palestinian delegation at the
>peace talks, said supporters of the Palestine Liberation Organization
>were weighing a renewed emphasis on ``armed struggle.''

I'm sure that will come as a surprise to Nissim Toledano's widow and
children.  She probably thought that they had never abandoned "armed
struggle."

>	``The Israelis have given a death blow to the peace process and they
>are the only side that can bring it back to life,'' he said.

Amazing how he ignores the death blow Arab terrorists keep dealing to
Israelis.

>	Hanan Ashrawi, spokeswoman for the Palestinian delegation, said at
>the East Jerusalem gathering that the expulsion was the most glaring,
>but by no means the only recent, Israeli blow to the peace process. 
>``You cannot have a charade of negotiations when the substance of peace
>is being negated daily,'' she said.

Who is she trying to give advice to?  Is she telling Israel that it's
been foolish to try to keep negotiating while Arab terrorists keep
targeting Jews?
-- 
Alan H. Stein   -----  AJIN   -----  astein@israel.nysernet.org
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24215 talk.politics.soviet:10026 soc.culture.greek:11915 soc.culture.europe:10844 soc.rights.human:4680 soc.culture.soviet:11610 soc.culture.turkish:13615