From: nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos)
Subject: Re: Is it Christian values or chavinism?
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date:  6 Oct 92 14:58:38 GMT

In <1992Sep30.191043.10350@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> mprc@troi.cc.rochester.edu (M. Price) writes:

>In <nyikos.717627005@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:

>>In <1992Sep25.211600.23804@coopsol.com> gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga) writes:

>>><1992Sep18.233054.14674@noao.edu> forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach) said:
>>>>From article by iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski):
>>>>> In article mprc@troi.cc.rochester.edu (M. Price) writes:
>>>>> >In nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
>>>>> >    <...> the fact that Suzanne
>>>>> >used the word "crucified" to refer to the justifiable tongue-lashing
>>>>> >Christ gave those who debased His temple trivializes the agony and
>>>>> >suffering He underwent in His death and spiritual separation from His
>>>>> >Father.

>>>Suzanne seems to ignore the castigation of other Christians who take her
>>>to task for trivializing their god's contributions.  I notice she doesn't
>>>apologize for it.

{Restorations:}
>>>>> I don't think I'm the only one here (I'm posting from alt.atheism) who
>>>>> is tired of this talk about the "agony", "suffering", and "death" of
>>>>> Jesus from Nazareth.  (Yes, I mean all those quotation marks).
{End of restorations}

>>Get with it, Gordon!  Don't you see how Ivan has exposed M. Price's 
>>"castigation" for the hoax that it is? 

> Ummmm, well, actually, I don't either. I've had a sensible e-mail
>conversation with Ivan in which neither of us have mentioned exposing
>one another, appealing though the idea may be. ;-)

Maybe Ivan *unwittingly* exposed you, by saying he was tired of all
the religious jargon you were insicerely spewing out above.  The original
"crucified" referred to the scribes and Pharisees, you made it sound
like it had to do with driving the money-changers out of the temple just
so you could use that juicy phrase "debased His temple."

>> And I've addressed this
>>"castigation" myself several times.

> Apparently not since I responded to it (unless I missed the post).

You did.  And I am addressing it again.

>>And is M. Price really a Christian? 

> By whose definition, Petie?

Storga's.  See what he said above about "castigation".

>> Who are the others who have
>>"castigated" Suzanne, and is any of them really a Christian?

> I don't know, Petie. I try not to pry.

I was asking Gordon, not you.

>Then, to Gordon:

>>I note your failure to address the question of whether Christ faked his
>>suffering.  Since you are, by your .sig, a professional atheist,
>> I suggest you get the
>>"Christians" who "castigated" Suzanne to address it.  Note especially
>>how M. Price uses the terms "trivializes the agony and suffering."

>  I hope it was in a complete sentence.

Look at the beginning of this post.

> If it was, I'm not sure what
>else you're getting at...

Just this challenge of Ivan's:

>>>> Rightly so.  Go ahead, prove that he suffered.  Only be sure to make
>>>> it quite clear that he didn't just fake suffering (for whatever purpose).

I did not see you address this challenge, which was made after you made
your comment about "... trivializes..."

Peter Nyikos

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