HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu
Subject: Re: HMD tech (was Re: Stuff)y
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 04:32:48 GMT

Many time to have inexpensive and such is to go for the simple..
How about using a simple mercury flow device..such as is used in a thermostat
for a house thermostat..(taeka  look at it sometime, when you turn it to a
point where the thermotat guage reads the same as the temp a small flash
happens, not surre of the why, but it does.. I know it is nice to have fancy
itesm and such, but sometimee people look beyond the simple and go for the
flashy when the simple works better..I am a idea man and know little of the
how, but I have ideas..So I hope Im not part of the problem (bitching and
such)..


In article <1992Dec9.043301.23730@znext.cts.com>, zeke@znext (james dehnert) writes:
> In article <CTDONATH.92Dec7101424@warthog.syr.EDU> ctdonath@warthog.syr.EDU  
> (Carl T. Donath) writes:
> - 
> - Ditto. That's why I recently asked if anyone knew about small, sensitive,
> - inexpensive acceleromemters: time to build an HMD.
> - 
> - I think part of the problem is the frustration that cyberpunk tech either
> - requires nonexistant technology (ex. adequate neural implants for jacking in)
> - or else it will be available & cheap soon (ex. HMDs will be available for
> - Nintendo in the next year or two) 'so why bother now'. There's also the 
> - new American mindset of 'wait until there's a big market' as opposed to 
> - the Japanese 'let's apply it NOW'. 
> - 
> - ...so let's get to work: how do I get/build a position sensor for an HMD?
> - Magnetic sensors are too expensive. Acceleromemters might work. Any other 
> - ideas?
> - 
> 
>   Logitech makes a cordless mouse that uses sound ( i think ) to transmit the  
> mouse instructions to the receiver.  Using 3 or 4 emitter's on a HMD with  
> different frequencies and 3 or 4 receivers that can listen for the frequencies  
> you could hack up ( yea, right ) come software that analyses the doppler shift  
> of the various frequencies to determine head orientation.  Pulsed Doppler  
> analysis would allow good, no, excelent triangulation between 2, or more,  
> sensors and the emmiter point on the HMD.   Hmmm...
>   Personally I am betting on a combination of methods for determining head  
> position.  Accelerometere and doppler shift are a good start.  Add on a small  
> gyro or 2 ( if they are practical, and I bet they arent ) or mabey some kind of  
> laser tracking, but thats getting really fancy, and probably not worth it.
> 
>   I say, Pulsed Doppler location and accelerometers.  Look in an industrial  
> catalog for the accelerometers, most libraries, big ones anyway, have them.   
> They are ususlly big green spined collections of books, 10 to 20 of them and  
> have just about any thing you could imagine in them.
> 
>   Zeke
> - --
> -- 
> +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
> =+   +=   Eschew Obfuscation           Next Mail Welcome  =+   +=
> +=   =+   James "Zeke" Dehnert        zeke@znext.cts.com  +=   =+
> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
From: spm@dar.csiro.au (McEWAN Shane)
Subject: Re: Sony Visortron vr goggles...
Organization: CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 04:42:02 GMT

adamfast@u.washington.edu (adam feuer) writes:
: "Cathode Corner: Sony's about to bring cyberpunk one step closer with the
: Visortron 'headset video screen.' The goggle-like device contains two
: tiny 0.7" LCD screens, one just in front of each eye. Not only could this
: mean perfected 3D movies, it'll let bus riders and hospital patients
: remove themselves even further from their surroundings. Also, it's one of
: the components that 'virtual reality' developers have clamored for."

0.7 inch?!?!?!?! I doubt you'd get any decent resoloution out of it for
use in VR. But, it's probably better than nothing!

--

  Shane McEwan     CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research    spm@dar.csiro.au
================================================================================
                "It is better to live rich than to die rich."  
                              - Samuel Johnson
================================================================================
Aspendale, Victoria, Australia 3195  Phone: +61 3 586 7503  Fax: +61 3 586 7600
From: v067rcyf@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (AARDVARK)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
Subject: Re: Virtuality - VR Video Game
Keywords: Virual Reality, Virtuality, Game
Date: 17 Dec 92 16:00:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1gki6qINNr9e@pms706.pms.ford.com>, ekimmina@pms001.pms.ford.com (Eric Kimminau) writes...
>Has anyone played the "Virtuality" Virtual Reality video game? A friend was telling me about playing it last night in Washington. Supposed to be incredible. $4.00 for 4 minutes. I know they have them in Dallas (2 places) and Washington, but I don't know 

this editing job isn't my fault, my system "truncated" it...

anyway, there has been lots-o-stuff posted
you can find info about this in Mondo 2000 (#5ish i think)
it's pretty accurate

plus i interviewed the guy who runs it,
and guess what? they don't tell him much about it

generally: 30,000 shaded polygons per second
           553 Meg hard drive
           100 Meg CD-ROM
           3 parallel modified Amigas
            with math coprocessors
           Polhemus tracking system
      etc....

(all this is from memory, so correct me if i'm wrong)

-------------------------------------------aardvark
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu
Subject: Cyberspace List
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 04:21:56 GMT

Does anyone know of a LIST such as like MEDTEXT-L or LINES-L that is for
cybertech and current progress on how to bring about computer=human brain
interface.. 
nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
From: adam feuer <adamfast@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Sony Visortron vr goggles...
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A753B5F9AC01CA56@mayapan.uwtc.washington.edu>
X-Xxdate: Tue, 15 Dec 92 19:19:05 GMT
Organization: university of washington
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 00:16:58 GMT

Anybody know anything about the new vr goggles (supposedly) coming out
from Sony? I heard about it in The Stranger (Seattle "alternative" free
weekly). Excerpt from a 14 Dec 92 column by Clark Humphrey called Misc
follows:

"Cathode Corner: Sony's about to bring cyberpunk one step closer with the
Visortron 'headset video screen.' The goggle-like device contains two
tiny 0.7" LCD screens, one just in front of each eye. Not only could this
mean perfected 3D movies, it'll let bus riders and hospital patients
remove themselves even further from their surroundings. Also, it's one of
the components that 'virtual reality' developers have clamored for."

Where do I call for info? How much do they cost? Where and when can I get
one? Guess it's time to get out there and call Sony's voice mail...

adam

adamfast@u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Tuesday, 15 Dec 1992 01:23:16 CST
From: <U54876@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
Subject: VR short course announcement

Hello -

 I just received a small brochure from the UCLA Extension (Dept. of Engineering
, Information Systems and Technical Management) announcing two short courses:

         Virtual Interface Technology (Virtual Reality)
          March 15-17
          with Thomas A. Furness III and William Bricken

         and

         Methods in Advanced User Interface Design
          March 31 - April 2
          with Tyler Blake

 Both classes will be held in LA and have fees ($1295 and $1195, respectively).
 However, a 40% discount is available for full-time faculty members and grad
 students.  Other discounts are available, but I'm not going to retype the enti
re brochure.  For additional info:

         UCLA Extension
         Short Course Program
         10995 Le Conte Ave.
         Los Angeles, CA
         90024-2883

         310.825.3344 vox
         310.825.1047 alt.vox
         310.206.2815 fax


 So, for anyone who has the time and/or money, I just thought I'd relay the inf
ormation.

-nirvana
.........
Tom Nawara
ideaLabs
UIC-EVL
From: jmowen@inf0hell.Gwinnett.COM (John M. Owen)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
Subject: re: VR screensaver
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 02:55:01 EST
Organization: in the pits of non-scalar data munging, Duluth, GA, USA

I would be really disappointed if the image-
painted-on-the-retina-VR scheme presented
the same image no matter which way one's eyes
pointed. For one thing, it would be a total
waste for the VR-rig not to take advantage of
the context of the eye tracking or movement.
Another point is that it would be a waste of
the visual field. The eye is not useful as
a pointing guide for conscious interaction,
so cursor or cross-hairs are out too. 

I'm heard expensive flight simulators
take advantage of eye-pointing to reduce 
the amount of computation required (I think
my source is SCI-AM, which had a cover on this
within the last 6 years). Views presented to
the fovea (sic?), the most sensitive part of the 
eye, are highly realistic. The rest of the eye
is presented with somewhat less detailed
imagery, e.g. peripheral vision is given only 
movement, color, and gross shape cues, since 
that's all it can detect anyway. The effect 
is to improve the realism of the simulator, 
without increasing the cost of the processor.

Your eyes are not 100% perfect, or even
consistent. If you presented constant
information, it would have to be in the
areas of gaze which work most effectively,
i.e. the most useful parts of your eye.
Your eyes are hard-wired to make sure said 
parts scan over whatever you are interested 
in, to make up for the defects. 

As far as the cursor/crosshair scheme goes, 
the amount of time one's gaze rests on a
single point is not really under conscious
control. If you graph gaze vs time, you get
something that looks like birds-nests connected
by crooked twine. The bird's nests are what
interests your attention, the crooked twine 
is the path your gaze travels between 
interesting parts. Which makes any kind of 
precise interface rather pointless. 

If for some reason your eyes do get fatigued
or 'over-exposed', the best treatment is 
closing the eyelids. This helps w/eyestrain  
too. 

So it seems unlikely screen/eye savers would 
be necessary in the course of everyday VR imaging. 
Of course screen-savers for terminals are not
necessary either, but they are cool. Propagating
the equivalent concept to VR imaging might be
simply providing a restful scene or hallucination
depending upon the user's requirements. Imagine
the commodities market VR image morphing into the 
Tibetan plateau during a rest break. Or flying 
toasters...whatever. Or cool, flat, even grey.
But it's your brain that gets tired of what you
see. Eyestrain is dealt w/ by closing eyelids.


-- jmowen@inf0hell.Gwinnett.COM (John M. Owen) 
-- My .sig is bigger than yours - but I keep it offline.
From: merlin@freeside.com (Merlin the Idiot Magi)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
Subject: Glasses
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 20:33:25 CST
Organization: Rivendell BBS / Hou, TX. / +1 713 941 2236

  Ok folks, tell me if this is possible:
   Take your micro-wat lazer system, mount it around some sunglasses, and 
tie it into a power supply an dcomputer.  The glasses are slightly 
reflective and are structured so that a lazer that hits it will be broken 
up and reflected all over the place, like on a projection TV.  Would this 
take care of the `Reflecting lazer into the eye', and `Eye traking" 
problems?
   /// & ///
   -- Of course, would you then get the wonderful `sitting too close to 
the TV' effect?

--
merlin@freeside.com (Merlin the Idiot Magi)
Rivendell BBS -*- Houston, TX -*- +1(713)941-2236
From: brenckle@scsuc.ctstateu.edu (BRENCKLE,NICHOLAS)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
Subject: Virtuality again...
Date: 19 Dec 92 14:45:00 GMT
Organization: Southern Connecticut State University - Computer Center
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


 There is no 3rd amgia controller in the Virtuality link. Just the ones
in each unit themselves. These units, at least the ones I looked at, and even 
got a peek at the tech manuals for, were regular Amiga 2000's with accellerators
and some custom graphic drivers for the glasses. THey were running standard 
AmigaDOS. (Watch them start them up sometime..) I don't wear glasses but the 
screens were still fuzzy. After playing for about 45 mins straight (A friend 
worked there and we went after close) I had a major headache.

-Nick
BRENCKLE@SCSUC.CTSTATEU.EDU
From: tww2568@sigma.tamu.edu (WEEKS, THOMAS WILLIAM)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
Subject: Nintedo
Date: 12 Dec 1992 00:13 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sigma.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

I can almost guarantee that the Nintendo is'nt going to use a true proportional
accelorometer as a positional sensor.... They'll go the cheapest way they can
to get the desired reult... i.e. simple joystick style switches to change 
perpective....   

When you say that accelorometers are'nt cheap... is what way are you referring?
The actual sensor is not the difficult part... the expensive and complex part is going to be the 
is going to be the differential interface circuitry and digitizing/traslational
interface..... THAT is what R&D is for... 

I imagine that the Nintendo version will suffice for us home brewers, but don't
expect the same linearity that you see on high end systems, without spending
high end bucks... even if you have the ability to design your own analog
feedback system with digitizing/translational interface, you looking at a 
major on-taking for a single individual even working at maximum man hour
output....

But what the hell...  You're a CyberPunk... Go fer it!
heh...

          Thomas Weeks


Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
From: joro@panix.com (Joe Rosen)
Subject: Re: Mercury switch sensors
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 05:59:54 GMT
Organization: Panix, NYC



have had excellent success using simple mercury bulb switches for
directional sensing...

     currently using them in a hand-held device that allows users to
navigate N S E W through a two-dimensional environment...

have used them mounted with $1.50 gardening gloves as a "cheap and
dirty" data glove-esque direction input device...

     by placing a photosensitive resistor in the palm of the same glove
it was possible to gain Z axis direction input (opening hand in a well
lighted room allowd for a change in resist across the palm of the glove
to be detected)...

lots of inexpensive solutions to VR hardware if ya can settle for the
quality of a "garage" level hack...




Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu
Subject: Movie Magic and Cyberpunk
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 04:56:43 GMT

Does anyone here know anyone in the movie/TV special effects profession. Of
what I have seen of there talents, that they woul dbe the most likely to
benefit or know about VR or cyberpunk ittems..
From: tww2568@sigma.tamu.edu (WEEKS, THOMAS WILLIAM)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
Subject: Resolution Vs Colors
Date: 12 Dec 1992 00:34 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sigma.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Yes... the new higher resolutions are nice, but all in all, only DTP and other
such resultion greedy applications need the such.. for the human eye, dealing w
with lower contrast 256+ color pallets, you'll find MORE COLORS is better
than higher res....

After all... most of the REAL NICE TV sets with REAL NICE pictures are only
about 500+ vertical lines....  

Why do they look so nice then compared to my computer?
   You ask...

Good question....  Its because the TV is displaying an analog representaion
of the actual image... an image which in 'computer terms' is 24 bit, or 16.7
million colors....  If you just stay at 640x480 res and jump from 256 colors
to 32K, the improvement is incredible... much better than going to 1280x1024.

Thomas Weeks


Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
From: brenckle@scsuc.ctstateu.edu (BRENCKLE,NICHOLAS)
Subject: Mercury switch sensors
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Southern Connecticut State University - Computer Center
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 15:56:00 GMT


Some suggested using cheap mercury switches as used in home temp controls
as an inexpensive source for HMD position sensing. These switches are 
small glass vials containing a bead of mercury and two wires. When the 
vial is tipped, the mercury rolls to the lowest point, either connecting
the two wires or disconnecting them. With an HMD you have an almost (or
an attempt at) infinite range of positions from level view to straight
up view, and I think the mercury switch would give you only two positions
(or as many positions as switches you install)


How exactly do some of these acellerometers etc work? I'm not really sure
about the mechanics.

-Nick
From: genius@tradent.wimsey.bc.ca (Michael Cooper)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
Subject: Re: Screensaver for VR glasses, reasons.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 06:44:29 PST
Organization: TradeNET International Trade Corp.

uman-russell@yale.edu (Russell Uman) writes:

> 
> re retina screen saver.
> altho there would be no burn in phenomenon there would be a burn out
> if the prompt was left on for TOO long. the reason we don't see the
> blood vessels etc that are in front of (yup) the retina, rods, cones,
> etc. is that the brain edits out stimuli that remain for too long. you
> might (but doubtful unless you left the promt alone for days) need
> something to prevent burn out.
> hmmm.
> havent read all the msgs, sorry if this has been addressed.
> 
> -- 
> russ
> spooboy
> fighting for injustice from a position of utimate weakness
> inside i am happy

Yeah.  Actually, the human eye continually makes rapid movements to 
prevent "burn out".  Perhaps this or something similar is a solution?

                                                        Michael Cooper
From: uman-russell@yale.edu (Russell Uman)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
Subject: Re: Screensaver for VR glasses, reasons.
Date: 13 Dec 1992 21:43:12 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu


re retina screen saver.
altho there would be no burn in phenomenon there would be a burn out
if the prompt was left on for TOO long. the reason we don't see the
blood vessels etc that are in front of (yup) the retina, rods, cones,
etc. is that the brain edits out stimuli that remain for too long. you
might (but doubtful unless you left the promt alone for days) need
something to prevent burn out.
hmmm.
havent read all the msgs, sorry if this has been addressed.

-- 
russ
spooboy
fighting for injustice from a position of utimate weakness
inside i am happy
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu
Subject: Human/Computer Interface
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 04:02:16 GMT

Mostly it seems the problem with attaching humans brains and computers is the
software and hardware inerface and what form the interface will take..

Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
From: ctdonath@mothra.syr.EDU (Carl T. Donath)
Subject: Re: Virtuality - VR Video Game
In-reply-to: ekimmina@pms001.pms.ford.com's message of 15 Dec 1992 12:14:18 GMT
Organization: Syracuse University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 15:38:29 EST

What kind of Virtuality info are you loking for? I played 4 rounds ($20)
and had a ball. The system is built by W Industries, costs $150,000 for
two interface units (HMD ("Visette"), VR joystick, magnetic sensing ring,
and a modified Amiga 3000). Units (pods?) are connected by Ethernet. May 
be a third Amiga organizing everything. HMD uses active thin-film displays,
is a little hard to get used to (slightly out of focus (did my glasses 
affect it? dunno), no focusing for different distances necessary). Screen
update rate is a bit slow, but you get used to it. You get about a 90 degree
field of view - a little narrow. Don't use it with a lot of money in your
pocket - once you get the hang of it, you'll blow all available cash ($5 for
4 minutes where I used it (a travelling Virtuality show)). I was rather 
jealous of the guys who worked at the club where it was set up: they used
it for free for _hours_.

Now that I've truly tasted VR: What's the number to get SEGA shutter glasses?
Is it 1-800-FOR-SEGA?





--
    ___________________________________________
 __/ ctdonath@rodan.acs.syr.edu  Carl T Donath \____
/ The government is not your mother. Do it yourself. \
From: mh001b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Matthew W. Hacker)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
Subject: Re: Resolution Vs Colors
Date: 13 Dec 92 18:55:32 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York


Actually, the last time I sat 18 inches away from my TV it looked
a lot worse than my monitor...  'Course 8 feet from my TV does
look better than 18 inches from the monitor.


-- 
Matthew W. Hacker                      mh001b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
                                       AppleII forever!
From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu
Subject: <None>
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 04:43:30 GMT

Other reason for maybe not useing a normally used sense is becuase of over
stimulting of the item in question and over flow of info shock (there is a
better term for this). Maybe find a part of the brain that is not being used
and maybe use that.., 

- Never overlook the simple, and never overlook the different -

Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
From: jconklin@scott.skidmore.edu (jason conklin)
Subject: Goggles, Glove
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:18:26 GMT

You'll all have to excuse my extreme cluelessness but I am kinda lost
in your discussions about the SEGA Goggles, and the powerglove. From
what I understand It is possible to hook these items up to a computer,
and control the computer via these mediums. I would be interrested in
finding out more about how I could hook them (especially the goggles)
up to my Macintosh LC. If anyone knows anything please respond..thankx
alot
From: hennessy@acsu.buffalo.edu (DOG BASEBALL!!!)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
Subject: Re: Virtuality - VR Video Game
Keywords: Virual Reality, Virtuality, Game
Date: 15 Dec 92 22:07:57 GMT
Organization: Ministry of Information, Lower Volta.


	I played a version with harrier jumpjet software at the Troc in
Picadilly...  maybe it's just my big head, but although I was impressed with
the head-motion sensing the screens themselves flickered too much and weren't
very good..  maybe I could've gotten used to it in time, but not at #2/2 or 3
minutes!  OUCH!
	ps:  they had a G-LOC with the 360 spin in all directions too, but I
couldn't use it.  (I guess it wasn't optimized for a 260lb american! 8)


-- 
   /I\          Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.
  /(*)\         hennessy@acsu.buffalo.edu                 
 /IIIII\        "Leave EVERYTHING to ME!" - Powdered Toast Man       
/IIIIIII\       Happiness is a warm gun.