HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD?
Organization: Homosexual Fascist Lobby, Rampant Paranoia Division
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 21:06:59 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.134154.7257@global.hacktic.nl> peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser) writes:

>mbarkah@slate.mines.colorado.edu (Ade Barkah) writes:
>
>>	Unix flamers (and defenders) are somehow confused regarding the
>>	difference between Unix and the command shell.
>
>You tell Joe User that UNIX is a kernel and not a shell.

Okay.  "The part of Unix that reads your commands from the keyboard
and interprets them is called a `shell.'  There are a number of
different `shells' available for Unix, and each one of them works a
little differently."  What else?

>Many DOS books deal
>with programming batch files and doing things with COMMAND.COM. Alas, that's
>not DOS. Well, for technically correct people you're right, but for most people
>it doesn't matter.

I think this is a major non-issue.  I believe that Unix books have
been written regarding shell programming for the Bourne and C shells.

>>	'vi' is hard too hard to learn ? Well, so is 'edlin.' This has
>>	nothing to do with Unix. Go buy Framemaker or Word for Unix.
>
>So you imply that vi isn't supplied with UNIX? I cursed MS often enough for
>not supplying a decent editor with DOS.

He says this has nothing to do with Unix because there's nothing about
Unix that requires you to use vi.  There are plenty of editors
available for free that are not difficult to use.  Oh, "the net" means
nothing to these people, sorry.  They can order an Emacs tape from the
FSF for, what? $150?

>Ok. Pretend that I'm Joe User and I go to a shop. I leave the shop with a UNIX
>tape. Now how do I install this tape without expertise? (s/tape/cd/g if you
>want). Installing UNIX is simple? Forget it!

Plug in the SLS disks for Linux and answer the pretty questions.
Next?

>>	If the system administrator knows that people are going to 
>>	have a background in DOS, no problemo. He/she can add configuration
>>	files to make it a simple transition.
>
>*IF* you have a sysadmin. What if it's your machine at home?

Then, by default, you're your own system manager.  Can't hack it?  Get
a different operating system.

>>	Unix is time tested. Newcomers like NT and OS/2 are still too
>>	buggy to be really useful for the general audience. It'll take
>>	some years to sort it out.
>
>Probably, but does that stop people?

Not to begin with.  When it becomes apparent, though, that there is an
alternative to their buggy, problematic platforms, they might begin to
choose otherwise.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu / I use antlers in all of my decorating.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
From: guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD
Date: 5 Nov 92 23:15:07 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara

>You obviously misinterpreted the article you replied to;

Wrong.

>it's not about
>who does the translation (tolower), but that it has to be done AT ALL.

Umm, the paragraph to which I replied was, to put it bluntly, about who
does the translation.

>That's the real crux. For every directory lookup (or any dir.
>operation, it seems), you have to go through a tolower-loop, etc. A
>bloody nuisance, I call it.

Life is harsh.  For every directory lookup (or any directory operation,
it seems), you have to go through a string comparison, too.  Perhaps
it's a nuisance to the writer of the directory lookup code to do case
mapping, too, but *if* it's more pleasant for the user that way, I'd
rather have the programmer put up with the nuisance than the user.

It's a "bloody nuisance" to have erase/kill or other editing code in the
tty driver, too, but it's a *real* bloody nuisance to have to do
without it.

Now, one can ask whether it *does*, in fact, make life more pleasant for
users to have case-insensitive file names; I've not seen any data for
either side (lots of individual statements, but nothing more interesting
than that).
From: maschepe@thama1.apgea.army.mil (Michael A. Schepers)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: ELM 2.4 PL6 and MIME
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:37:48 GMT

Hi There,

     I have recently upgraded my ELM mail reader to version 2.4 PL8.
     This version of ELM states that it can support MIME to permit the
     inclusion of binary, audio, and graphic files in the mail message.
     Has anyone been able to get this to work.

     I have ELM up and running fine, and mime (version 2.3+) also has
     compiled without error, and seems to run.  all the mime executables
     (ie.  mailto, metamail, etc) are in my path.  As part of the ELM
     Configure, I specified that I wanted MIME support to be configured.

     I use "mailto" to compose a file with a binary attachment and send
     it to myself, but when I try to read it with ELM, I get the
     following error.

Received: by thama1.APGEA.ARMY.MIL.UUCP (5.61/4.7)
        id AA12979; Thu, 12 Nov 92 14:40:53 -0500
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 14:40:53 -0500
From: maschepe (Michael A. Schepers)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: maschepe
Subject: test of MIME
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
        boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.4569.8018.thama1.721597249.1"

> THIS IS A MESSAGE IN 'MIME' FORMAT.  Your mail reader does not support MIME.
> Some parts of this will be readable as plain text.
> To see the rest, you will need to upgrade your mail reader.

--PART.BOUNDARY.4569.8018.thama1.721597249.1
Content-type: text/richtext
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


     I am currently running on a Pyramid MIS-4 OSx5.1a.  Any suggestion
     is greatly appreciated.


-- 
Michael Schepers               
Potomac Research, Inc.         
maschepe@thama1.apgea.army.mil 
Xref: sparky comp.unix.questions:13017 comp.unix.shell:4572
From: klaus@helsinkiesf.de (Klaus Wicovsky)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.shell
Subject: sh,csh porting guidelines
Date: 6 Nov 92 07:51:32 GMT
Reply-To: klaus@helsinkiesf.de (Klaus Wicovsky)
Followup-To: comp.unix.questions
Organization: ESF Headquarters, Berlin, FRG

I have just written a little sh script on a Sun. Of course I used things like 
"echo -n" or "tar xvf tarfile 2> errfile > outfile". When I tried to run it on
HP-UX I found that things went wrong/different from what I expected.

So now my question is: Is there any list of features that are common in almost
all Unix (c)sh variations? Is there any kind of document/book that helps ?

Tomorrow I might be writing an awk script, will I ever find out on which
platforms it will work ?

-- 
   Klaus Wicovsky                                                   
                                                                    
   ESF Headquarters                    Tel : ++49+30-820 903 47      
   Hohenzollerndamm 152                Fax : ++49+30-820 903 19      
   1000 Berlin 33                      UUCP: klaus@esf.de        
   Germany
From: brutond@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Dave Bruton)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: 'talk' command
Summary: Need help with understanding 'talk' on Sun machines
Keywords: talk BSD Sun
Date: 11 Nov 92 13:07:10 GMT


Dear all,

  I need help with understanding how the 'talk' command works.  Any help
would be greatly appreciated, or references to books or other newsgroups
etc.

My problem is that I cannot use the 'talk' command with anyone on a
non-Sun machine from our network of Suns.  I appreciate that this is a
well known problem.  Everyone I speak to tells me it's a well known
problem, but no-one has been able to explain why.

I have downloaded various talk clients, to look at there source.  Most
if not all of them use the ntalk/udp service.  Suns appear to have only
the talk/udp service (517), but I looked at a non-Sun, and they appear
to have both talk(517) and ntalk(518).  I don't understand why there are
TWO services for talk on these machines, and I certainly don't understand
why it is not possible for a Sun to join in.

I worked at ICL for a short while this summer, and during my stay I
learnt that Suns are notoriously awkward for connecting onto internet
networks anyway, due to the large number of packets they throw backward
and forward at each other that no other machine can understand.  I belive
a filter needs to be put between Suns and other machines to prevent them
from falling over.

Could it be this filter that screws up talk packets?  Some packets do
apparently get through, since talk usually complains [No connection] when
none get through.  'talk' gets past this stage, up to the [invitation]
stage.  That's what makes me even more confused, and certainly
breaks my theory that these filters were a really simple design which
just throws away all UDP packets!

PLEASE HELP.  I need an understanding of this.  Many thanks,
Dave.


-- 
    Dave Bruton.                 "It is impossible to enjoy idling thoroughly
brutond@cs.man.ac.uk             unless one has plenty of work to do."
         4 Beresford St, Moss Side,                               - J K Jerome 
         Manchester M14 4SB.   (ENGLAND)   Tel: 061 227 9426
From: hoel@umiacs.umd.edu (Erik Hoel)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: (Q) SLIP, Xylogics Annex boxes, MacX, MacTCP, MacSLIP
Summary: How to display xterms on a Mac
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:08:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: mimsy.61988
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742

Basically, I would like to be able to display xterms on my Mac at home
while dialed into a Xylogics Annex box via a high speed modem and run SLIP,
etc.

On the Mac side, I have MacX 1.7, MacTCP 1.1.1, MacSLIP (a SLIP driver), and
a v.32bis modem. Various postings to the comp.sys.mac.comm newsgroup have
confirmed that this is everything that is necessary on the Mac end.

On the unix side, I am dialing into a Xylogics Annex box and rloging into
a DecStation. The Annex boxes have not been configured yet to run SLIP (it
is still undecided whether they _ever_ will). One of our system gurus has
built a SLIP kernel (under Ultrix 4.2) and provided me with a special login
that runs slattach.

At this point, I am able to login to my slip account via MacSLIP, but after
the standard login messages scroll by, I am promptly logged out. I have not
been able to determine whether the Annex boxes are blocking SLIP (do they
have this functionality?) or whether there is a problem elsewhere.

Does anyone have any experience running SLIP through an Annex box when the
Annex boxes have not been configured to do so (in the underhanded manner
that I have described ;-)?

Any pointers, etc. would be most appreciated.

Erik Hoel
hoel@asgard.umiacs.umd.edu
Xref: sparky comp.unix.questions:13033 comp.unix.sysv386:16290 comp.unix.sys5.r4:448 comp.unix.wizards:4553
From: jhgreen@cs.sandia.gov (Jethro H. Greene)
Subject: How do you use nohup with command-line shell-scripts?
Originator: jhgreen@cs.sandia.gov
Organization: Sandia National Laboratories, Albuquerque, NM
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 23:53:33 GMT


Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: mikeb@cad5.cray.com (Mike J. Buchmann)
Subject: Re: wanted shell script for .plan
Originator: mikeb@cad5
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 5 Nov 92 11:57:48 CST


In article <Bx7Kzt.65J@cs.dal.ca>, franklin@ug.cs.dal.ca (Steve Franklin) writes:
> In article <1992Nov4.191356.25875@cis.ohio-state.edu> warner@oak.cis.ohio-state.edu (todd william warner) writes:
> >I was wondering if someone could give me some help. I would like to add a
> >script to my .plan file. I want people who finger me to know where I am 
> >logged to and when the last time I was logged on. I also would like to 
> >find some information on shell scripts. If someone could help please post 
> >this information to this newsgroup.
> 
>    I vote this as the most redundant and reiterated thread of 1992. Any
> seconders? In any case - THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN POSTED. Do you guys just come 
> on this group, ask a question, then leave again? DO you have to post to such
> a wide distribution for such a question? I do not have the source. Hopefully
> some patient kind soul will maili t to you.
>    steve
> -- 

I have seen this question posted before, but have yet to see an answer to it!
If you know what the answer is Steve, why don't you share it with us!  This
newsgroup, as I undrstand it, is for asking questions, if you care not to read
questions, I suggust you leave and read some other newsgroup.

I would also like to know the answer to this question.

Mike Buchmann
----------------------
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions,comp.editors
Date: Sat,  7 Nov 1992 06:50:48 -0500 
From: Ashvini Sharma <ash+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: kibitz, expect

hi folks,

   I am interested in using any kibitz like tools out there that can
help me work with someone on coding a program simultaneously. Are there
any other (fairly good) applications which do this? 

    also, does anyone have 'expect' compiled for a workstation running
Ultrix 4.2 that they could let me have? My site does not seem to have
some files it needs for compilation.

thanks
ash
From: DAVIDHO@arizvm1.ccit.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Can linux run on IBM PS/60? any other can do?
Date: 10 Nov 92 23:16:28 GMT
Distribution: comp.unix.questions,local
Organization: University of Arizona

Does anybody know if there is any Unix system can run on IBM PS2/60?
I heard of SCO Xenix 286? How good is it? Can it run X?
 
Do I have any other choice?
Any comment is appreciated. Please send to my email address.
 
davidho@dopey.rc.arizona.edu
 
David Ho
From: peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD? (long)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:23:29 GMT
Organization: Global Village 1

rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) writes:

>have you ever used 'lvi' (or 'nvi') ?

Where can I FTP the sources?

Greetings,
Peter Busser
Xref: sparky comp.unix.questions:13192 comp.unix.wizards:4586
From: atario@cats.ucsc.edu (Stephen Wayne Miller)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.wizards
Subject: Telnet as a term program
Date: 10 Nov 1992 13:15:26 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu


(I wasn't sure which group was more appropriate for this message, so.)

I'm trying to get telnet to act somewhat like a term program in that I want
it to be able to send and receive at least text files.  I can even be ok
with an I/O redirect and no interaction for that telnet session (like
"% telnet vms.company.com < script_file").  However, depending on the
machine I telnet to, lots or little of the file's text is ignored as input.
Any suggestions??  (No, the machine is not ftp-able.)

(Please e-mail as I don't read these newsgroups.)
-- 
  __     | atario@cats.ucsc.edu | "Oh no!  Toonces, look out!  AIIIEEEE!"  --SNL
 (_      | Delphi:  ATARIO      | "This is only an exhibition.  This is not a
 __)teve | "Happy happy!        |  competition.  So please . . . no wagering."
         |  Joy joy!"  --R & S  |              --Late Night with David Letterman
From: ren@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Liming Ren)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: How does compress adap to the file size?
Date: 11 Nov 1992 21:36:30 -0500
Organization: Department of Mathematics, The Ohio State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: function.mps.ohio-state.edu

The  man page of (UNIX) compress says

     compress reduces the size of the named files using  adaptive
     Lempel-Ziv coding.  Whenever possible, each file is replaced

Does anybody know how the adaptive coding is acheived?  I assume there is a 
formula which computes the NUMBER OF BITS per code from the file size. 
What is this formula?


Thanks advance!
From: john.fix@hardgood.com (John Fix) 
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: MEMORY AND SPEED
Date: 5 Nov 92 19:57:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Hardgoods East BBS - Eastchester, NY (914) 961-8749
Reply-To: john.fix@hardgood.com (John Fix) 

I'm running SysV386 on a 386/25 with 8mb of RAM.  The motherboard has a
total of 8 SIMM slots, with 1mbx9 SIMM's installed.  Will additional RAM
speed up the O/S to any degree without making any software changes (i.e.
will the O/S make use of the additional RAM on it's own)?  I'd like to
plug four 4mbx9 SIMM's in to bring the total to 20mb.

                                  -= John =-
From: peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD? (long)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 13:56:32 GMT
Organization: Global Village 1

nk24+@andrew.cmu.edu (Nicholas Kramer) writes:

>take a look at a NeXT. It doesn't look like what DOS users think of as
>*nix, and yet, it is most definately Unix.

>another 20 years. But it will never be "the operating system of the
>masses."

I just wonder, why UNIX can't be "the operating system of the masses". Doesn't
your NeXT quote prove that it can be done?
From: harley@engrhub.ucsb.edu (Harley Hahn)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: IS UNIX DEAD?
Date: 9 Nov 92 08:54:20 GMT

This is number 9 in a series of 22 responses to the question:
 
What do you think about the Byte magazine cover that asked:
IS UNIX DEAD?
 
(moderated by Harley Hahn)
 
----------
From: sleepy!pat@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Pat Eyler)
 
At risk of sounding inflammatory, Is Microsoft Dead?  with NT not 
yet out the door, they are trying to fight and win the 'software 
war' with a weapon like DOS.  This does not seem to be the way to 
go.  Especially with such packages as Linux and 386BSD becoming 
more stable, more 'feature rich', and easier to find and install  
(and the price :) )....
 
It looks to me like Unix is alive and picking up speed. 
 
==========
From: peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD? (long)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 23:47:24 GMT
Organization: Global Village 1

papresco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:

>Why doesn't help do anything in SH (and others).

It does something usefull in bash.

>Why is it that if I want to WordProcess in VI I have to remember to hit return at the end of the line otherwise bizarre things happen.  Why not just wrap, beep, or slide over (i.e. let the line go long). 

:se wm=5

>Is there a wordwrap mode in VI?  And if so, why doesn't it kick in when I
>use VI from RN?

vi ~/ex.rc
Oset wm=5<ESC>:wq

Issue a :map command in your vi. You can use function keys. It's just damn
hard to learn how to use them. (Mind, you *I* don't mind, I'm a masochist, ;-)
I just don't expect everybody to be one... ;-)

Vi is not designed to do this. Fortunately there are more editors for UNIX.
However, these are found rarely on UNIX distribution tapes (except emacs, but
that one is as terrible as vi...).

Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: rolls@cis.umassd.edu (Frank Pinto)
Subject: Need help with "MAKEFILE"
Organization: University of Massachusetts Dartmouth
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 19:54:27 GMT

Hello all

I'm new in the subject, therefore here it goes:
I've just 'ftp' some files from "digital", uncompressed
them, unarchived them, 
and found out that there are about 20 files all together,
now i want to compile them bu i'm sopposed to 
??????  Makefile ?????? them. 
Is this some sort of arrengement I must performe in 
a certain order to have the program compiled?
I have no manuals (I'm home)
and one person which could help me is in Jury Duty.

thanks in  advance

Frank Pinto
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: warning possible FAQ:  not substring in regex
Keywords: regular expression
Organization: Homosexual Fascist Lobby, Rampant Paranoia Division
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 03:28:12 GMT

In article <1992Nov7.003902.3217@u.washington.edu> godden@stein.u.washington.edu (Jeff Godden) writes:

>How do you specify within a regular expression NOT a substring?  That
>is, suppose I want to find all filenames that begin with the letter
>'z' and don't contain the string "cy" anywhere in them, is this possible?
>If so how?  Does this work?:
>
>     ^z.*[^c][^y].*

First of all, remember that filename globbing (as in `ls *.[ch]') uses
a slightly different syntax from ed-style regular expressions, as with
the example you give above.  The only differences I can think of
offhand, though, is that the `.' wildcard character is `?' in filename
globbing, and the globbing metacharacter `*' will match any sequence
of *any* character (it's equivalent to the regular expression `.*').

The regular expression you describe above is not really what you're
looking for.  When I need to extract really complicated text patterns,
I'll usually pipe into grep several times, like:

     ls | grep ^z | grep -v cy

I wouldn't be surprised if this can be accomplished with tagged
regexps or other nifty egrep features, but it's served me well in the
past.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu / I use antlers in all of my decorating.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: tparker@music.scd.ucar.edu (Tom Parker)
Subject: Re: Vi-question
Organization: Scientific Computing Divison/NCAR Boulder, CO
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:05:34 GMT

In article <34054@adm.brl.mil> yellow@judy.indstate.edu (S. Vemula) writes:
>Hi,
>   
>     Sometime back, somebody mailed on how to use arrow keys in insert mode
>     also, to move around in the document.  I think, it is by mapping the
>     arrow keys.  Could somebody mail me as how i have to set up my keys.
>
>     thanks,
>     Shank Vemula


I do it with these lines in my .exrc file:

" Allow arrow keys to work in VI "text insert" mode
:map! ^[OA ^[ka
:map! ^[OB ^[ja
:map! ^[OC ^[la
:map! ^[OD ^[ha
--
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Tom Parker             |  National Center for Atmospheric Research |
| tparker@ncar.ucar.edu  |  (303) 497-1227                           |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: gilgalad@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Ralph Seguin)
Subject: Sun 386i and multiple disks???  Argh!!!
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 05:16:56 GMT


Howdy.  Sorry to waste bandwidth, but I RTFM, or what little I had
available, and could not seem to solve this problem.  I just
got a Sun 386i and I cannot get it to recognize anything other
than the internal disk.  I have tried the standard range of
SCSI IDs, and the machine seems to freak out nomatter what.
Has anybody seen this before?  Is my machine hosed?  Known problem
with the 386i?  This is a 386iRR250 with 8M, 300M disk, color
monitor.  I'm trying to hook 3 different disks:  Fujitsu 2624SA,
Elite 1 and Wren 7.

			Thanks, Ralph
From: jorgense@plains.NoDak.edu (Lee A. Jorgensen)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: dd and mt sources ...
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:37:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: ns1.BxGuLz.Hx8
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

Could someone please point me in the direction of these sources?
It's for a program that I'm writing, and I would like to have these
two functions in the program itself.

Thanks ...

-Lee.

-- 
Lee Jorgensen             Internet: jorgense@plains.NoDak.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------
  This .signature is now fixed according to FCC standards,
 internet rules and regulations, and my personal preference.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions