From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Macs cost too much (NOT!)
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
	<CKD.92Jul24111236@loiosh.eff.org>
	<1992Jul24.173535.23023@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 00:37:03 GMT

Sang> == Sang J. Moon <smoon@strfleet.gsfc.nasa.gov> 

 Sang> However, if you have checked your hard drive with ResEdit, you
 Sang> should see that your deleted statement about there being no
 Sang> Desktop file was incorrect.

I made no such statement.  Please be more careful in attribution.

 Sang> You conveniently deleted your original statement that my post was
 Sang> in response to in which you made absolute statements that mac
 Sang> applications were all point and click installations and the worst
 Sang> case mac application installation was a few minutes.  I was
 Sang> giving examples to prove the point that installation takes just
 Sang> as much time and effort for either machines in general.

I made no such statement.  Please be more careful in attribution.

 Sang> You can always find exceptions for specific software, but
 Sang> installation of software in general takes just about the same
 Sang> time on either machine.

*In general* it takes more time to set up an application or function on
a PC-compatible machine.  Certainly there are *some* PC programs that
are easier to set up than *some* Mac programs; I don't deny that.
However, using MS applications as an example of how tough Mac programs
are to set up is like using nuclear bombers as an example of how all
airplanes are bad and man was never meant to fly.

 Sang> This in turn is to point out that time "fiddling" with a PC is
 Sang> not really a cost factor because in the long run it is
 Sang> insignificant, and just as much time is spent on "fiddling" with
 Sang> the mac albeit not in the exactly same ways (different machines
 Sang> after all).

It is a cost factor.  I administer a network of about 20-30 Macs, and
one PC (as well as a number of Unix machines, routers, and whatnot).
The PC is the damndest headache of them all, administratively.

Here's how I installed a CD-ROM drive on the 486/33:

Install SCSI card, find the *right* driver disk (there was a READ ME
FIRST note saying "use this one, not the other one in the drive
package"), install drivers.  Edit AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS to load
the drivers, being careful to choose an unused drive letter.  Use SETVER
to make DOS pretend to be 4.01 so the CD-ROM software is happy.  Turn
the machine off, install the card, and plug the drive in.  Turn the
machine back on (after closing it up, etc) and try to load the CD-ROM
drivers.  Watch it blow up in a conflict with the SVGA board.  Power
down, move the monitor, open the machine up, change the DIP switches,
try again (repeat 2 times).  Finally find an address that works; too bad
it conflicts with the Ethernet driver.  Disable the Ethernet driver and
reboot.  Finally get the CD-ROM working, but make two copies of
AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS; one for the CD-ROM, one for using the net.
Live with it.

And how I installed the same model drive (a NEC CDR-73) on a Mac IIfx:

Install the NEC drivers by dragging them from the install floppy to the
System Folder.  Shut the machine down, find an unused SCSI address, put
the CD-ROM drive on the chain, power everything back up, insert CD-ROM.

How I set up dial-in access for PC users:

Explain Procomm, explain how to log in to the Sun, show them how to use
Pine, expect frantic phone calls ("how do I upload a file").

How I set up dial-in access for Mac users:

Give them a copy of AppleTalk Remote Access.  Set up a name/password
pair on the LanRover, and give them the phone number.  Give them a
"cheat sheet" on configuring MacTCP, and copies of Eudora and Fetch.
Sit back and enjoy the refreshing lack of support calls :-)

(And before you go off on a diatribe about how my boss is paying for my
time, etc, note that I recently bought a IIci using a cash advance on my
credit card.  You'd have to pay *ME* to take a PC home.  Before that I
did nicely with an SE, and before that, a Plus.)
--
Christopher Davis * ckd@eff.org * System Administrator, EFF * +1 617 864 0665
   ``The First Amendment is often inconvenient.  But that is besides the
  point.  Inconvenience does not absolve the government of its obligation
         to tolerate speech.'' --Justice Anthony Kennedy, in 91-155