HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Fun things to do near airports in Oregon, Washington, and BC?
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 23:54:49 GMT

Brent> == Brent Chapman <brent@greatcircle.com> 

 Brent> At Seattle, I had planned on flying into Boeing Field.  Is there
 Brent> any kind of Boeing museum or exhibit or anything like that

There is a pretty good (not NASM, but only NASM is) Museum of Flight
there, including the original Boeing "red barn" building, nicely
restored.  They have a B-47 and some other stuff parked outside, and
inside has various nice hardware including an A-12.

There are also tours of the widebody plant if you get up to PAE by car
or air, but go early to get tickets, etc, etc, etc (free but first-come
first-served, you snooze you lose).

Try eating at the Blue Max at BFI; 'twas good last I was there (ground
travel from my parent's place, sigh; no PP for me--no $$!).
--
Christopher Davis * ckd@eff.org * System Administrator, EFF * +1 617 864 0665
   ``The First Amendment is often inconvenient.  But that is besides the
  point.  Inconvenience does not absolve the government of its obligation
         to tolerate speech.'' --Justice Anthony Kennedy, in 91-155
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: rlarsen@bnr.ca (Richard Larsen P220)
Subject: re:war stories
Keywords: war stories
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:31:41 GMT

I flew as a crew member of a Navy P-3 (4 turbo prop engines) for over 1000 hours.  We were flying thru a hurricane (typhoon) when I noticed oil on the wing around the number 2 engine. I notified the flight engineer who told me that we had lost 5 of the 8 gallons of oil for that engine. The pilot told me to monitor the engine as he shut it off.

About 10 feet of flame came out the back of the engine as it came to a stop. The pilot fired the HRD (30 lbs of CO2) into the engine but the fire did not go out. He transfered the HRD from number 1 into number 2 but still the fire did not go out. 

The waves were too big to ditch so we planned to bail out. The pilot called for a rescue hellicopter but was told hellicopters don't fly in hurricanes. We planed to jump near a ship. 

The flames seemed to be getting smaller so we waited 5 minutes for the fire to burn itself out. We returned to Okenowa and landed at Kedna Air Force base in a hurricane. We hydroplaned and turned 90 degrees before the pilot was able to use the rudder to straighten out. He reversed number 1 and 4 to stop without wheel brakes.

This is why I fly gliders. No engines to catch on fire. The fire occured off the coast of Viet Nam in August of 1972 about 3 months before I was to get out of the Navy. Every other flight I went on after that something went wrong. Oil leaks, electrical fires, generator failures, engine shutdowns. The cause of the engine fire was an oil seal being installed backwards.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: wb8foz@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (David Lesher)
Subject: Re: Carlsbad Caverns Fly In
Reply-To: wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (David Lesher)
Organization: NRK Clinic for habitual NetNews abusers - Beltway Annex
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 22:47:01 GMT

Others said
# > Carlsbad Caverns Fly In (CACAFI*)
# 
# I didn't know it was legal to fly an airplane inside of a cave.  It must
# be a really big cave....

Whne I was on the Left Coast a few weeks ago, and saw that funny
looking structure at Moffitt, my first thought was:
	Does Geoff solo his students in there?
--
A host is a host from coast to coast..wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
From: ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Manufacturer being sued _for_no_reason_
Date: 22 Jul 92 22:27:51 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

> Any clue as to why they are sueing the pilot? I thought the pilot died in the
> crash, too???

Just being dead doesn't get you out of lawsuits.  Both the pilot and
the charter outfit probably had insurance.  Looks like a pretty good
case for negligence against both the pilot AND the charter outfit.

-Ron
From: pwk2177@tesla.njit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: HELP - '46 Ranger Engine Points WANTED!
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:39:17 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology

Wondering if anyone can help me.  I have a 1946 Fairchild F-24 aircraft
based at Kupper airport in Manville, NJ and am finding it extremely 
difficult in obtaining points for the engine.

I don't know the specific type of points offhand, but I believe they are
86RB60's.  Is there a person that you know of who could help me or is
there an aviation mail order house that just happens to have Ranger engine
points left over from the old days?

If you can be of some assistance, it would be greatly appreciated.  Please
E-mail me at: PWK2177@tesla.njit.edu, and thanx again...

Philip Kineyko.....
From: kzk00@ccc.amdahl.com (  200  Klaus Kraemer)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Questions about airspace incursions/Mode C
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:06:39 GMT
Reply-To: kzk00@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (  200  Klaus Kraemer)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

The NASA system definitely is worth it. Airliners always carry
plenty of ASRS forms.

>(3)  Paraphrasing - Limitation on frequency of use of the waiver - I've
>got an old copy of the AC, but I think the current limitation is once
>every three years.

Once every five years, but that means you get the "out-of-jail-free"
benefit only once in that time. You can file as many ASRS reports
as you wish. Treat the NASA system not so much as a CYA vehicle;
it is part of an overall system aimed at improving safety. Read
their reports ("Callback"), and you will agree.
From: ark@alice.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Small Children in GA aircraft
Date: 29 Jul 92 04:26:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23345
Reply-To: ark@alice.UUCP ()
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Liberty Corner NJ

In article <13782@auspex-gw.auspex.com> tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett) writes:

> Now if I could find some way to deal with my ten year olds propensity
> for airsickness...

Have you tried letting him fly the airplane?

If that doesn't work, have you tried candied ginger?
-- 
				--Andrew Koenig
				  ark@europa.att.com
From: Tom.Binger@f47.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Tom Binger)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Medical question
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 01:47:00 -0600

Can anyone tell me if asthma is cause for denial of a medical certificate? I can
not find asthma mentioned in part 67 but have noted that one is specificaly
asked about it on the medical application forms. Any information would be
greatly appreciated. 
 * Origin: FlightLine BBS Mpls,MN USRdual 612-544-5118 (1:282/47.0)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: mperlman@nyx.cs.du.edu (Marshal "Airborne" Perlman)
Subject: FTP
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix (sponsored by U. of Denver Math/CS dept.)
Disclaimer1: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of
Disclaimer2: Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
Disclaimer3: control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 01:09:13 GMT

Can anyone recomend any good aviation ftp sites...(and directory)
--
==============================  *  Marshal Perlman               * DO
=-> mperlman@nyx.cs.du.edu <-=  *  Huntington Beach, California  * NOT
==============================  *  (Surf City, U.S.A)            * EAT
___ANYONE UNDER 18 IS A MINER___
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre)
Subject: Re: VFR Flight Following in TCA/ARSA
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:02:33 GMT

In article <4230@equinox.unr.edu>, brecher@pyramid.unr.edu (Steve Brecher) writes:

|>...The only effect
|> of a CZ is make controlled airspace...If you have controlled airspace
|> VFR weather
|> conditions, a CZ is irrelevant to you -- except possibly for alerting you
|> to the fact that there's an airport there...

There's another purpose for CZs where flight planning is concerned.
All CZs have a weather observer.  Therefore at least one airport in
a CZ will report weather.  So if you are looking for a weather report 
close to your destination, look for the closest CZ on the chart.

		William LeFebvre
		Computing Facilities Manager and Analyst
		Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
		Northwestern University
		<phil@eecs.nwu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: hagood@sabre.den.mmc.com (Dave Hagood)
Subject: Re: Ropes and gliders
Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics Group
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 23:33:08 GMT

In article <9207291245.AA14432@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>, PJERN@CHGVMIC1.VNET.IBM.COM writes:
|> 
|> (I seem to be reading that the glider pilot in the case being discussed
|> kept the rope all the way back to the strip, and it seems to not be
|> unusual to do so.  Am I missing something?)

	The only reasons not to drop the rope I am aware of are:  1) you
don't want to drop it on somebody or something, and 2) you CAN'T drop it
(i.e., release failure).

	I believe the pilot in the case being discussed had some manner of
civilization below him.

	It IS unusual not to drop the rope; we are taught to get rid of it
as soon as possible.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
									|
David M. Hagood			Martin Marietta Astronautics Group	|
									|
Voice:  (303) 977-9657		When in danger, or in doubt,		|
E-mail: hagood@den.mmc.com	Run in circles, scream and shout.	|
Fax: (303) 977-1530							|
									|
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
     static char *disclaimer = "My opinions, not Martin Marietta's."    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Charles.K.Scott@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Gee Bee R2 was Re: Airshow Report
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:43:12 GMT
 <1992Jul27.192315.25119@walter.bellcore.com>  
 <1992Jul27.212419.25683@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

In article <1992Jul27.212419.25683@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
petri@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (HOWARD PETRI) writes:

> Well I believe, ( please correct me if I am wrong) that he he doing
> an aerobatic routine at these airshows---YIKES.

This was discussed on the Net when Sport Aviation did a cover story
about the first flight.  The aileron reversal you speak of occurred
during final approach of that first flight and may have been an entry
to a snap roll.  He cought it and successfully landed and decided not
to attempt a full stall landing in the future.  In flight he said it
flew just fine and was inverted and at knife edge during the first
flight.  These are the maneuvers he demonstrates at airshows, I don't
believe he gets into much more than that.  Roll out on landing is the
most difficult part of the flight.  The brakes, even though they are
modern discs, are marginal and the rudder gets masked by the bulbous
body once the tail wheel touches down so control is by brakes only
after that.  Delmar learned that one roll out is all he can do for a
while when he tried several touch and goes and discovered he was almost
out of brakes because they overheated so badly.  All and all, it's a
very hairy machine and Mr. Benjamin is flying it specifically because
of it's mean and nasty reputation.  He is very talented but the R-2 is
definately a handful and not your typical sport airplane.

Corky Scott
From: markk@sagredo.West.Sun.COM (Mark Kampe)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Ropes and gliders
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:02:44 GMT
Organization: SunSoft South
NNTP-Posting-Host: sagredo.west.sun.com

Actually, I was taught to (if possible) drop the rope in a clear area near
the airport ... to make it easier to retrieve.  Many FBO's charge between
$25 and $100 for a lost rope.

If you don't have the altitude, of course, you just get rid of that sucker
and land.  There is some danger of landing with a rope, in that it might get
tangled up in a fence or plant on short final.  If you can't release the
rope (because your latch is jammed) you want to make a long landing, so 
there is nothing but runway underneath you when the rope gets near the 
ground.
From: M21208@mwvm.mitre.org
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: "remain clear of the ARSA..."
Date: 28 Jul 92 08:08:51 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102

In article <Bs26pv.LB1@taligent.com>
cep@taligent.com (Christophe Pettus) writes:
 
Among other things...
>
>ARSAs and TCAs are there to reduce controller workload.
 
Say what?  Call Monterey and ask them how much their workload went down when
they started providing mandatory service to practically every aircraft in the
vicinity.  "Reduced workload" is about the LAST thing an ARSA means to ATC.
From: john@newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: QANTAS - U.S. Aircraft Carrier warnings.
Date: 21 Jul 92 02:53:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: newave.71
Organization: Newave Communications, Ltd, Lake Wobegon, MN

In article <1992Jul20.142409.16259@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> wolit@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (Jan Wolitzky) writes:
> An F-14 can carry Phoenix, Sparrow, and Sidewinder air-to-air
> missiles.  The only thing on the plane that could threaten a ship
> is its 20mm cannon.  That's a small enough, very short-range, threat
> that there was no reason not to wait for positive visual
> identification.

The Iranian Air Force also had exocet missiles.  While the F-14 isn't
designed to handle one of these, humans tend to be very creative animals.
The F-14 can also carry dumb bombs.  Perhaps the Iranian pilots would
get lucky that day.  And don't discount the gun...the Isrealie Air Force
did quite a number on the Liberty with nothing more than guns.

-john-

-- 
==============================================================================
John A. Weeks III		(612) 942-6969		    john@newave.mn.org
Newave Communications, Ltd.			    ..!uunet!tcnet!newave!john
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: davea@col.hp.com (Dave Allen)
Subject: Re: Taildragger x-wind landings: wheel or three point?
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:14:23 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

bbice@nmt.edu (Brent Bice) writes:
>    The local instructor who re-checked out my Dad in his Luscombe
> refuses to do wheel landings in *his* Luscombe.
> ... he said that the Luscombe is so easy to flip onto its back that
> he doesn't want to use brakes at all until the tailwheel is down. 

Hmmm. Wonder if this is fact or legend? I sure did a lot of wheel
landings in my Luscombe over 11 years and about 700 hours. All my night
landings were on the mains. Didn't have a landing light, so it seemed
best to to keep a bit of power on to feel for the ground and to have
some extra rudder control.

As for winds, in strongs winds, I'd try for 3-point. If strong AND gusty,
on the mains.

dave allen - Fly because you love it.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: masys@nlm.nih.gov (Dr. Daniel R. Masys)
Subject: Re: Question: what might cause a dead battery?
Organization: National Library of Medicine
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 15:50:06 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.154832.29026@selway.umt.edu> cap@selway.umt.edu (Charles A. Smith) writes:
>
>Here's the deal: the Skylane has had the battery go dead twice in the last
>month.  One day the battery is fully charged, and the next it is stone
>dead.  But we didn't leave the master on (really). 

Sounds like the master contactor relay (that thing in the back that goes
click when you turn on the master switch) has an internal short (usually
due to arcing).  Telltale sign would be to charge up the battery, and
after an hour or two feel the outside of the contactor "can"; if it is
warm you've got an internal short.

The other contactor which is suspect is the one which feeds the starter
motor; it is located on the firewall near the starter.  If it has an
internal short, it will get hot also.

These contactors are standard aircraft components; you can drop a bundle
on the Cessna-provided version or pick up an inexpensive one from
Wag-Aero or Aircraft Spruce.  Since they only run $25 or so, it's almost
worth replacing one or both on general principles.

As mentioned by your mechanic, might be a short in the clock circuit
also.  Since there is an inline fuse to the clock circuit right back at
the battery box, just remove this fuse to see if it cures the problem.

Dan Masys
masys@nlm.nih.gov
From: randy@cerl.gatech.edu (Randal T. Abler)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Looking for a mechanic in Texas/DFW area
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:58:37 GMT
Originator: randy@khan

I'm looking for references (and phone numbers) for a mechanic in either
the Dallas Forth Worth or Austin, Texas area.  Somebody who works weekends
would be a plus.  Please email me (to save net.bandwidth) at 

-- 
Randal T. Abler   	randy@cerl.gatech.edu		 
CERL/EE Georgia Tech     
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: mark@hpcvxmsr.cv.hp.com (Mark Rowe)
Subject: Re: "remain clear of the
Keywords: FARs ARSA
Reply-To: mark@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com
Organization: UDT-CV (ITO)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:30:49 GMT

(Dick Zeitlin) writes:
> But the argument is that you're outside the ARSA when receiving this
> instruction.  If you're in uncontrolled airspace, is it a legal
> instruction?  (LEGAL...  We're not arguing sensible, appropriate, etc.)

There is nothing in the regulation that requires you to be in controlled
airspace when you receive the instruction (anymore than you need to be in
controlled airspace to receive an IFR clearance).  The regulation simply
states that while you are "in an area in which air traffic control is
exercised" you may not operate contrary to an ATC instruction (except in
an emergency).  If ATC says stay out and you come in, then as soon as you
are in the ARSA you are operating your aircraft contrary to an ATC
instruction.  When you get right down to it, there is nothing in the
regulation (91.123b) that even requires that you have recieved the
instruction.  If ATC published a notice in the Calcutta daily news that
stated that all aircraft must execute a left 360 immediately upon entering
the Monterey Bay ARSA then any aircraft that procedes through the ARSA
without the 360 would be in violation of FAR 91.123b.

(Actually I think there are some constraints on all Federal agencies that
forbids "arbitrary and capricious" behavior, but the burden of proof is
yours).

Mark Rowe             email: mark@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com
Hewlett Packard       voice: (503) 750-3246
Corvallis, OR         FAX:   (503) 750-3788
From: victor@vaspc.uucp (victor)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Ramp checks--unreasonable search
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 08:58:12 PDT
Organization: High Flight Aviaton , Inc.

philf@xymox.palo-alto.ca.us (Phil Fernandez) writes:
> In article <1992Jul22.122240.8728@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Bluejay Adametz
> writes re ADs:
> 
> As a new, first-time plane owner I have a question that just came up
> today, and Bluejay's note is apropos:
> 
> I received an AD today from the FAA that nominally applies to my
> Mooney.  It's about inappropriately-manufactured Lycoming piston
> parts, dating from a couple of months during the summer of 1991.
> 
> Now, I know (from the logbooks) that my engine has not had major work
> since the prior year, when the engine was majored.  However, the AD
> requires a log and maintenance search within the next 15 days to
> determine applicability, etc.
> 
> As a naive, first-time owner, WHAT DO I DO to comply?  Do I need to
> get the plane to an A&P to certify the obvious?  Do I make some sort
> of log entry myself?  Or????
> pmf
> pp-asmel-ia
> mooney n5632j

As an A/P I can honestly say that you have to take your airplane and A.D. 
notice to your friendly neighborhood A/P and have (s)he take a look and 
have it signed off .

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

+ Any Landing you can walk away from!  +  ucbvax!csusac!sactoh0!vaspc!victor + 
   
+ away from!                           +  ames!pacbell!sactoh0!vaspc!victor  +
+                                      +  victor@vaspc.sactoh0.sac.ca.us     +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
                                +
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck)
Subject: Re: Take a break Mr. ATC
Organization: Geoffrey G. Peck, Consultant, San Jose CA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:32:22 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.015111.13439@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Marshal.Perlman@bbs.oit.unc.edu writes:
>OK..this is good:
>
>I am sittin' on the ground holding short of 19L at SNA...ready to T/O
>
>The controller says to me: 73M, cleared to land..
>and I say: 73M I'm still on the ground...

But you >could< have said
    "Understand cleared to land, 73M -- could you please clear me for
     takeoff now so I can use that landing clearance?"

:-)

						Geoff
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: ginsberg@t.Stanford.EDU (Matthew L. Ginsberg)
Subject: Re: Bogus Landing Fees
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 20:27:46 GMT

In article <2540041@hp-vcd.vcd.hp.com> schinner@hp-vcd.vcd.hp.com (Jim Schinnerer) writes:
>The other day, I got a letter - a bill, actually - notifying me of my
>$12 landing fee at Westchester County Airport in White Plains, New York.
>
>Hmmmmmm, I have never been to New York - well, not since 1975 - and when
>I was there, I certainly didn't have Buster with me since I was only 10
>years old.  So, I wrote back and told them that 350X was indeed securely
>tied down in Vancouver, WA on 6-15-92.
>
>We'll see how this turns out.  Anyone else have this happen to them.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------
>Jim Schinnerer  -  PP-ASEL-IA       |  Hewlett Packard
>Mooney - 350X  -  "Buster"          |  Vancouver, WA
>email - schinner@vcd.hp.com         |  (206) 944-3324
>---------------------------------------------------------


Yup.  Happened to me for a plane that had never been east of Lake Tahoe
but was supposed to have landed at Newark in NJ.  Took a couple of phone
calls, but I got it straightened out.

						Matt Ginsberg

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: petri@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (HOWARD PETRI)
Subject: Re: prevalence of engine failures
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: petri@venus.iucf.indiana.edu
Organization: INDIANA U. CYCLOTRON FACILITY, BLOOMINGTON, IN
Date: 22 JUL 92 16:08:05    

In article <13640@mindlink.bc.ca>, Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca (Charlie Gibbs) writes...
>In article <greg.711776678@octopus> greg@octopus.dpsi.com
>(Gregory R. Travis) writes:
> 
>>dst+@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) writes:
>>
>>>  GA pilots can expect to average 1 engine failure per 1,000 hours of flying.
>>
     I got my first power failure just after getting my power license--
at about 80 hours of power. I was flying a TWO CYLINDER Bellanca Champ
circa 1971. I ended up in an alfalfa field. My instructor was with me as
we were trying to fly off 10 hours for the insurance company. Previous
to this I had two aborted take offs in this plane when the engine began 
missing. I would encourage anyone wishing to get this over with to go out
and find one of these "aircraft" and fly it a bit. I assume I am now safe
for at least 1k hours. 

Howard (sleeping nights)

Newsgroups: rec.aviation