From: dagolden@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Alexandre Golden)
Subject: Re: Class' power (was Re: how to imprison a psionicist)
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 16:50:11 GMT

In article <YfAcFSi00VoxJoxOxf@andrew.cmu.edu> "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
>> In article <1gr21hINNgqd@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> operbwt@nextwork.rose-hulm\
>> an.edu writes:
>> >Yeah, but the Psionicist can do the following:
>> >       1.  Turn shadow form
>> >       2.  Disintegrate oponent until opponent dies
>> 
>>         Can he do both at once?
>Yes.  

NO! NO! NO! NO!   Only one power may be activated a round (excluding
defenses).  Yes, they can both operate, but there's a time delay factor.

>>         Can he target opponent accurately?
>Yes.

Yes, but better hope you make those skill checks.  What happens if you fail
the first "turn shadow" roll? (At CON -6)  Or get disrupted? etc...
And the opponent makes saves vs Death Magic.  Which, given a character of
equal level to a psionicist who could actually do both and have enough power
to keep it up, should be a breeze.  The attacked person probabably has about
the same chance to save as the psi has to actually get the disintegrate off
(at a cost of 40(!) how long can you keep this up, especially while in shadow
form...).  Also disintegrate is only range 50 yards.  Why assume the target
will just stand there and take it?
   
>>         Are all opponents unable to attack psionically or in other wise reach
>> him in this shadow form?
>Just psionics.  Sorry, I don't by X isn't too powerful because more of
>X beats it...

No.  Detected by "life detection", other psi detection stuff, true seeing.
And says nothing about invulnerability (to spells for instance).  
Just that the _psi_ cannot do any physical manipulations.  I think many 
DM's would interpret that the psi is treated like the shadow monster.

>>         Do all psionicists have Shadow Form and Disintegrate? Odd, mine
>> doesn't...
>Well, last time we talked they didn't have teleportation abilities
>either.  What DO your psionicists have?  Are they the "mind master"
>type?  PK?  

Minimum fifth level to have both Disintegrate and Shadow Form, and prereq.
Must have 65 PSP's to do this once.  (turn shadow & dis).  Must have
108 to do this twice.  (turn shadow & dis & dis).  All assuming no failures!
   
>> >Or, the following:
>> >       1.  Turn shadow form
>> >       2.  Contact opponent
>> >       3.  Dominate opponent until success
>> 
>>         Can he do both at once?
>Yes.

See ramble above.  Again, think saves.  Think power cost (at twice contact
to establish and maintain).

>>         Are all opponents unable to defend and unable to attack?
>Unless they're psionicists.  

Contact is not automatic.  Resistance does help.  There is a chance for
failure.  (There is also a precedent for a penalty if the target is wearing
certain helmets, see FHb on helmets, and let the DM make the call...)
And of course there are items and spells (mind blank) that should negate
contact.
  
>Oh, and if the psionicist is of high level, tag "psychic surgery so
>dominance is permanent" onto this one.  Just knock them out (if you
>have contact and dominate, you probably have so method of doing
>this...)  and make dominate permanent on them.

Now you're talking really high level to have all these sciences.
Are we to assume the target is still defenseless. Not to mention the 
TWENTY MINUTES it takes to actually perform psychic surgery, during which time
the psionicist CANNOT:
  a.  be in shadow form
  b.  do anything else or else the time is wasted.

(see the end of this post for more.)

>> [more of the same type of argument]

>>         You leave out an important word. CAN. Psis CAN gain such powers.
>> they are not GUARANTEED to get them, any more than a mage is GUARANTEED to
>> get Power Word Kill at 9th level.
>I thought psis could pick their powers.  Is this incorrect?  If it is
>right that a psi is guaranteed to get whatever powers he wants.  

Yes.  Psi's can pick.  But remember that they have to have at least twice
as many in their primary discipline as in any other, which limits them from
spreading too thin.  Or else they become a "one trick pony".

OK.  Further things to consider:

1.  For the sake of argument, assume that the psionicist has sucessfully
disintegrated opponenent one (at a cost of 65 PSPs).  OK.  Now meet opponent
number two.  OK.  Now meet opponent three. etc.  A fighter does not run out
of juice after two or three opponents, and a wizard winds up having far more
spells available.

2.  Assume, for the sake of argument, that the psionicist loses initiative
vs a wizard.  Round one: cone of cold (or pick a favorite).  No shadow form,
and possibly no psionicist either.  Or vs. a fighter.  With no (significant)
armor, a fighter with a dagger has a reasonable chance to go first, and
will very likely hit.  No shadow form.  Or, following point 1, opponent 1
hits with dagger, disrupting power.  Opponents two and three nuke psionicist.

3.  Assume that the psionicist has single handedly, or with help, dispatched
several opponents, winning the day.  Now he's got to rest. A lot! 5 hours
or so for each disintegrate.  A fighter on the other hand, gets a few
cure light/ cure serious and he's ready to move on.

4.  Thief, hiding in shadows, backstabs psionicist with a poision blade.

5.  Wizard casts charm. or suggestion, or confusion, or fear, or
invisibility or color spray, or protection for evil/good (just thought
of that for stopping a domination!), or blindness, or ...
Note that all of these go off in one round, and many have an area of
effect so as to catch the psionicist just after shadow form (assuming
successful) and before movement.

The point is, the cases described above are all slanted, intentionally or
by omission of detail, in the psionicists favor.  Given any class, it's
possible to construct such an ideal situation.  (Wizard 100 yards away
casts fireball, etc...).  In a real game situation, the psionicist may
be extremely powerful in some cases, but not in others.  Or may be out
of PSPs after an encounter.  So is the psionicist still that powerful?
Yes, but so are the other classes.



-- 
David A. Golden '95           (dagolden@phoenix.princeton.edu)
Princeton University