HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Pro-Choice
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:35:27 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Distribution: tx
Organization: River Parishes Programming, Austin, Republic of Texas

In article <1428@airgun.wg.waii.com> reed@rd08.wg2.waii.com writes:
>The governor of Michigan, John Engler, is a Republican who defeated a
>pro-choice Democratic incumbent, James Blanchard, in 1990.  Blanchard
>vetoed several parental notification abortion bills.  I'm not sure
>what Engler's position is on the issue, but I obviously know more
>about it than you do!

Hmmm.  I'll have to go look up those party affiliations again ...

Not every election was held yesterday.  Bush beat Dukakis and
Dukakis was pro-abortion.  Are you invalidating the Bush election
because it wasn't held yesterday?  Certainly if abortion was a critical
issue in 1988, it will be one again today.

>|> You mean like the pro-life people who voted Casey in as governor of
>|> Pennsylvania and supported a senator who is for state funded healthcare
>|> and the former Bush Attorney General?
>
>The "former Bush Attorney General", Richard Thornburgh who is also the
>former governor of Pennsylvania and pro-life, lost in a big upset to
>an unknown Democrat, Harris Wolford (sp?).  I don't know Senator
>Wolford's position, but you don't even know who won!

Wolford won because of his position on state funded healthcare.  People
will vote bread and circuses every time.  As for Casey, it's hard to get
much more famous in pro-life circles than him.  And I do know that he
won ;-)

>|> Get a clue.
>
>Take some of your own advice.  I would rather read Fred McCall's hearsay
>than your mistruths.

Mistruths?

Did Casey win the election or not?  A simple yes/no answer will do.
Did Wolford run on healthcare or abortion?  Again, a simple answer will do.

After Wolford was elected, the Republican party didn't say "Oh my God!  We
have to switch our position on abortion."  No, it was a referendum on
HEALTH CARE.  Likewise, Bush will be re-elected or not based on the economy,
not abortion.

[ NB - I don't give names because they are irrelevant.  Dick Thornburgh is
  best known of recent for being the former Bush Attorney General.  Harris
  Wolford was a complete unknown outside of the state.  Saying "Dick
  Thornburgh beat Harris Wolford" is a lot less informative.  Many people
  didn't even know who the hell Dick Thornburgh was.  Or as they say,
  "quick, who is the postmaster general?" (without looking it up ...) ]
-- 
John F. Haugh II                   | Life's Little Instruction Book:
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151            | "#138.  Learn Spanish.  In a few years,
UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh |  more than 35% of all Americans will speak
Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org      |  it as their first language."
From: cwinemil@keys.lonestar.org (Chris Winemiller)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Pro-choice vs. Pro-Life vs. Anti-Abortion (Re: fetus vs. baby)
Date: 22 Aug 92 14:27:22 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: None

rocky@NeoSoft.com (Joe Mullally) writes:

> In article <Le2RPB2w165w@keys.lonestar.org> cwinemil@keys.lonestar.org (Chris
> >boyd@turtle.fisher.com writes:
> >
> >> Once upon a time a great many people thought the earth was flat, did that
> >> make it flat?
> >
> >No.  But your point is misdirected.  A vast number of people believe that
> >there is something supernatural.  What they _don't_ agree upon is the nature
> >of that supernatural --- which is the correct parallel to your 'earth is
> >flat' statement.  To deny spiritual reality is to put yourself in a very
> >tiny minority in the history of the world, indeed.
> 
> 	This is a moral relativism point. Was their earth flat? Should
> they be condemned for believing so? Translate "earth flatness" to any
> other "moral" stance. Should they now be condemned? Should we not instead
> understand them? Should we not learn from their notion, ergo- is our
> earth flat? (Do we ALL accept reality factors that just aren't true?)

Joe, what _is_ your point?  Nobody's talking about condemning anyone else. 
Nobody's saying we don't learn from other people.  Which also includes the
possibility of not accepting someone else's opinions, after considering
them.  (And also includes the reverse.)  Let's not get into your moral
relativism argument again.

Chris

-- 
Chris Winemiller         Internet: cwinemil@keys.lonestar.org
                         UUCP    : texsun!letni!keys!cwinemil
From: elg@elgamy.sccsi.com (Eric Lee Green)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: The NAACP (was: Re: HR 4983)
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:46:49 GMT
Organization: Eric's Amiga 2000 @ Home

From article <1992Aug10.164655.1764@awdprime.austin.ibm.com>, by jfh@greenber.austin.ibm.com (John F Haugh II):
> In article <1992Aug4.233151.16913@montagar.lonestar.org> davidc@montagar.lonestar.org (David L. Cathey) writes:
> I just wanted to whack this one while I was in the neighborhood.  The
> sole reason for the NAACP's continued existence is searching high and
> low for new ways to stir up racism.  The NAACP must continue to ferret
> out NEW forms of racism to protest, and by doing so proves that it is
> the single largest black racist group in America today.
>
> This isn't to say that the NAACP doesn't occassionally do good for
> blacks in America.  After all, anyone can have a bad day ...

As my friends at Dodson would put it (though they weren't talking
specifically about you, but, rather, a certain person from Dallas):

"The man just don't have a clue."

--
 Eric Lee Green  elg@elgamy.sccsi.com         Dodson Elementary
 (713) 437-6908  uunet!nuchat!elgamy!elg      Houston, TX
                "Kids are kids, no matter what"
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: So Long, and Thanks for all the Fish
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:45:12 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <21384@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.153324.9399@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>>In <21377@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>>>Well, Jeanette is now about 4 months pregnant.
>>Hey, congratulations.
>Fuck you.

Hey, John. I honestly think that Fred was serious.

In any case, "fuck you" is hardly an appropriate response to someone's
congratulatory statement; either it's sincere, and should be appreciated, or
it's not, in which case treating it like it's serious makes you the good guy,
instead of a total asshole.

I'd congratulate you too, but after a response like that...
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
  "Anything that an F-4 can outturn is not maneuverable." -- Mary Shafer
From: richard@technology.com (Richard Murphy)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: results of straw poll
Date: 17 Aug 92 20:38:13 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Southwest Research Institute, San Antonio, Texas

Does anyone have any objections to me posting the results of my
poll here? I said it was for my use only, but several people have
written me to ask that I post the results....
Richard
From: bboerner@novell.com (Brendan B. Boerner)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: So Long, and Thanks for all the Fish
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:22:20 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Novell, Inc. --Austin

In article <21384@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.153324.9399@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>>In <21377@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>>>Well, Jeanette is now about 4 months pregnant.
>>
>>Hey, congratulations.
>
>Fuck you.

Amazing, someone congratualates you on your wife being pregnant and you
tell him "Fuck you?"  Granted you and Fred go at it quite heatedly but
you seem to be taking it a bit personally.

Brendan
-- 
Brendan B. Boerner		Phone: 512/346-8380
Internet: bboerner@novell.com	MHS: bboerner@novell
Please use ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ if replying by mail.
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: So Long, and Thanks for all the Fish
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:56:46 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: River Parishes Programming, Austin TX

I've been putting this off for several weeks, in part because my wife
and I had agreed not to tell anyone outside of the family that she is
pregnant.

Well, Jeanette is now about 4 months pregnant.

I have been involved in national and local politics since I first dug
into the local political scene in New Orleans around 1979.  I have
enjoyed politics and have met a great many politicians, many of whom
are total and complete weasles, and some of whom are pretty decent
folks.  For me, being politically active - in the real sense of
political activity, not the USENET sense of writing lots of postings
and then doing nothing - has been a great way to contribute to this
country that has been so kind to me and my family.

The most important thing, in my mind, that a person can do to help
their country is spark debate on issues, beat them to death, search
for the core kernel of truth and then use that knowledge to improve
this country as a whole.  Debate is crucial to our freedom.  If we
let the professional politician tell us what to think, how to act, or
what we expect from government, we will rapidly fall into a pit that
serves only the professional politician.  Washington and Jefferson
were citizens first and politicians second.  That is the model we
should seek to emulate.

As the blessed event comes closer to arriving I'm fairly sure that I
will have little or no time that I want to spend arguing on USENET.
So rather than do a half-hearted job of trying to stay up to date on
what is going on in this group, I'm just going to say bye-bye.

In the words of Lou Reed, "It's the beginning of a great adventure."
I asked God to bless me with children, so I'm going to seize the
moment and raise me a kid from scratch.  For those of you that have
never trusted in God for anything, let me just tell you that in all my
years of asking God for things and counting my blessings, He has never
steared me wrong or let me down.  So, you might think of this as an
invitation to look at the money in your pocket and heed the simple
advice - "In God We Trust".
-- 
John F. Haugh II                   | Life's Little Instruction Book:
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151            | "#138.  Learn Spanish.  In a few years,
UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh |  more than 35% of all Americans will speak
Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org      |  it as their first language."
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: jdp@caleb.UUCP (Jim Pritchett)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: fetus vs. baby
Date: 19 Aug 92 06:44:10 GMT
 <21348@rpp386.lonestar.org> <1992Aug13.102724.16941@montagar.com>
Distribution: tx
Organization: is sometimes desirable

In article <1992Aug13.102724.16941@montagar.com>, David L. Cathey writes:

> 	If you really want to limit abortions, you have GOT to provide
> sex education for children once they start to reach child-bearing age.
> You need to provide birth control to those that want it.  I don't mind
> encouraging abstinence until they are out of school, but you CAN"T make
> them feel ashamed or resentful, or they will just have sex unprotected.

The data shows that since sex education in the schools started, teen pregnancies
increased dramatically.  Since condoms began being distributed in the schools,
teen pregnancies have soared even higher.


                                                Jim Pritchett


UUCP:  rwsys.lonestar.org!caleb!jdp
 or    utacfd.uta.edu!rwsys!caleb!jdp
From: jdp@caleb.UUCP (Jim Pritchett)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Republican Candidates
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 06:25:17 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: is sometimes desirable

In article <7138@lib.tmc.edu>, Jay Maynard writes:

> In article <1992Aug17.192005.1787@technology.com> judy@technology.com (Judy McMillin) writes:
> >Since the most compelling quality Bush claims to have is his outstanding
> >foreign policy record [...]
> 
> Actually, Bush's most compelling quality to me is that he's the only effective
> brake on an amok, Democrat-controlled Congress. Clinton would let Congress
> spend this country into oblivion.

Close, but change the word 'let' to the word 'help.'  Clinton will be much more
active in spending than your original wording indicates.


                                                Jim Pritchett


UUCP:  rwsys.lonestar.org!caleb!jdp
 or    utacfd.uta.edu!rwsys!caleb!jdp
From: rocky@NeoSoft.com (Joe Mullally)
Newsgroups: tx.politics,rice.politics
Subject: Re: Houston Defending Choice Coalition needs you
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:59:30 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900

In article <Bt7pAt.B1o@rice.edu> rbutera@owlnet.rice.edu (Robert John Butera) writes:
>Back in the seventies, Barry Goldwater said that Bush was a political
>opportunist who would say whatever it takes to further his career.  What
>foresight ...

	This is a tough one for me to criticize Bush about. While I don't
have much respect for him, I can see that this position is possibly his
way of appeasing the Republican party in general, not far from what 
Buchanon had to do at the convention. 


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Mullally (rocky@sugar.neosoft.com) PH:713-681-2495
"They say 'David, what shall I do? They wait for me in the hallway'.
I say 'Don't ask me- I don't know any hallways."- David Bowie, "Scary Monsters"
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: john@johniac.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Subject: Re: Quayle on Values:  Where he stands and his background
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 00:11:07 GMT
Distribution: tx
Reply-To: johniac@hwperform.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstation Division, Austin, TX

In article <21364@rpp386.lonestar.org>, jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
|> I'm not misrepresenting anything.  Is a miscarriage a miscarriage
|> or not?  Is a prematurely born baby born prematurely or not?

Yes, but a prematurely born baby is not a miscarriage, and a low birth
weight baby is not a miscarriage.  That's the misrepresentation.

|> But you sure as hell were quick to claim that Houston must be some
|> lone fluke.  And now that you know that Planned Parenthood has clinics
|> in Dallas, Waco =and= Houston that perform abortions, have you come
|> clean?  No.

Just how would you like me to come clean?  I said "sorry, I was
wrong".  It happens.  You want me to flog myself or something?

|> Nah.  You stomped your feet pretty hard when Daryl corrected you about
|> the Fannin clinic, and you're still stomping your feet now that I
|> took the time to find out that PP does abortions in Dallas and Waco as
|> well.

Stomped my feet?  I said "thanks Daryl, I didn't know that".  Jeez, as
often as you are wrong, you shouldn't be throwing stones.  At least I
admit it.

|> It isn't my straw horse.  It's YOUR agenda and your AGENDA
|> demands that you pretend Planned Parenthood is a bunch of nice old
|> farts doing Pap smears and handing out birth control pills.

We had the numbers all along.  Chris W. posted them a while back, and
I found them as I was going through my tx.politics archives.  Planned
Parenthood has 60 clinics that do abortions in the United States.  The
other 830 Planned Parenthood clinics DON'T do abortions, and yes they
do pap smears and hand out birth control.

|> The image
|> of Planned Parenthood workers wielding coat hangers isn't one you
|> wish to accept.

Why not?  I don't have any objection to abortion, remember?  I'm
pretty confident they use suction hoses rather than coat hangers,
however.  Admit it -- you lied.  You said that abortion is dangerous,
and it's one of the safest medical procedures around.  You said that
it destroys most women emotionally, and it doesn't.  You fabricated
bogus numbers to try to make it sound as scary as possible.  That's
YOUR agenda.  Is it any wonder that people don't want the government 
forcing doctors to tell women these so called "facts"?  You're not
interested in facts, you want to throw as many roadblocks as you
possibly can in the way in hopes that you can intimidate people into
doing things your way.  

-- 
John Iacoletti    IBM AWD Austin    Internet: johniac@hwperform.austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
"Now I laugh and make a fortune off the same ones that I tortured, and the
  world screams, 'Kiss me, son of God'" -- TMBG
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: fetus vs. baby
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:44:01 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Distribution: tx
Organization: River Parishes Programming, Austin, Republic of Texas

In article <1992Aug11.175318.22237@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>Utter hogwash, but fine.  Let him choose.  "Anyone here present who
>has objection to this abortion, speak now."  If the embryo or foetus
>doesn't speak up, it just agreed.

Sounds like you just legalized the murder of anyone that is deaf, mute,
or doesn't speak English.
-- 
John F. Haugh II                   | Life's Little Instruction Book:
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151            | "#138.  Learn Spanish.  In a few years,
UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh |  more than 35% of all Americans will speak
Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org      |  it as their first language."
From: bboerner@novell.com (Brendan B. Boerner)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: HR 4983
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:20:03 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Novell, Inc. --Austin

In article <1992Aug18.164926.19419@tamsun.tamu.edu> dlb5404@tamsun.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf) writes:
>In article <1992Aug14.142626.2321@novell.com> bboerner@novell.com (Brendan B. Boerner) writes:
>>OK, I assume that this perversion is the "right to privacy" which
>>pro-lifers find so odious.  I finally had to jump in and ask ya'll
>>- do you really want to live in a country where you DON'T have a right
>>to privacy?  
>
>The right to privacy to do *what*?  This is what's so odious about
>Griswold v. Connecticut; it doesn't say exactly WHAT types of privacy
>are protected.  To paraphrase Robert Bork (_The_Tempting_of_America_ --
>an excellent work), men beat their wives and children in PRIVATE, people
>murder people in PRIVATE, people conspire in PRIVATE.

From the _The American Heritage Dictionary_ which came with my desk:

privacy: 1) the condition of being secluded or isolated from others; 2)
secrecy.

private: 1) Secluded from the sight, presence or intrusion of others;
2) of or confined to one person; personal; (several others).

I'd say that the beaten wives have had their right to privacy violated
and the murdered victims have had their right to privacy violated.

As for conspiring - this is a good example of the point I think you
were trying to make which I agree with (and if not, you'll let me know,
right? :-)) which is rights are not absolute, they can be limited under
certain circumstances.  So for people conspiring, if the police or
F.B.I. have reason to believe that some group is conspiring to commit a
crime, and they can convince a judge, they can violate the privacy of
the suspects.  Until they can do that, those folks have a right to
privacy.  Similary, while the court found that a woman does have a
right to an abortion for the 1st trimester because of a right to
privacy, they limited that right in the later trimesters.

Later,
Brendan
-- 
Brendan B. Boerner		Phone: 512/346-8380
Internet: bboerner@novell.com	MHS: bboerner@novell
Please use ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ if replying by mail.
From: jcj6@ace3.sps.mot.com (james berry)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: JFH
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:18:43 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: APRDL, Motorola Inc., Austin Texas

>>>Well, Jeanette is now about 4 months pregnant.
>>
>>Hey, congratulations.

>Fuck you.
>-- 
>John F. Haugh II                   | Life's Little Instruction Book:
>Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151            | "#138.  Learn Spanish.  In a few years,
>UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh |  more than 35% of all Americans will speak
>Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org      |  it as their first language."

Once again, John's eloquent speech and superior wit comes through.  


James L. Berry  jcj6@giedi.sps.not.com
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Evil government
Date: 22 Aug 92 15:45:12 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1992Aug22.032214.22300@technology.com> richard@technology.com (Richard Murphy) writes:
>Who knows, maybe government can't fix it, but don't tell me it can
>even more messed up if they tried....

Why not? The US Government has the Midas Muffler touch: everything they touch
turns to shit.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
  "Anything that an F-4 can outturn is not maneuverable." -- Mary Shafer
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: tx.politics,rice.politics
Subject: Re: Houston Defending Choice Coalition needs you
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:05:05 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <exuptr.336.714254872@exu.ericsson.se> exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (Patrick Taylor) writes:

>In article <1992Aug19.041907.5222@tamsun.tamu.edu> dlb5404@tamsun.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf) writes:

>>You might also read _Aborting_America_ by Dr. Bernard Nathanson, M.D.,
>>a person of a Jewish atheist persuasion who cofounded NARAL,
>               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>What is a Jewish athiest?  Are we talking an athiest who has Jewish
>heritage, or is this someone who believes Moses was an overzealous
>philospher?

Well, I don't know that I would have phrased it as Daryl did, but I
understood what he was talking about.  One can refer to Jewish as an
ethnicity or Jewish a religion.  I presumed that Daryl meant that Dr.
Nathanson was of Jewish ethnicity (I've been told (yes, those
notorious 'third parties' again) that under Jewish law that the baby
isn't a 'baby' until the head exits during birth) and had no religious
beliefs.  Sort of like a lapsed Catholic with an attitude.  :-)


-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.