HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Original_To:  @CHRISTIA
Original_cc:  WRBANEK
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 06:47:00 CDT
From:         "john d. wrbanek" <WRBANEK@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Spiritual leadership in the home

I have been catching up on the "Spiritual leadership..." thread, and being
newly married, the spiritual "discussions" are rather fresh in my mind.  In the
end, we both had to talk to each other so our language was the same.

There was and is not one of us leading the direction of our spirituallity.  We
are in the marriage together.  The leadership seems to come from God, not us.

My two cents...


  Fermi Nat'l Accelerator Lab.       |        |          |           |
  RD/SOD/Operations             .  _ |_  _   _|    , , ,_|_  _, _  _ |/
  P.O.Box 500 MS 355           /| /_/| || | /_|\. /\/\/| |_||_\| ||/_|\
  Batavia, IL 60510             |/
                               /|    john d. wrbanek    fnal::wrbanek
  My opinions aren't those     \|    fnald::wrbanek     wrbanek@fnal.bitnet
  of the FNAL, URA, DOE, or          disney::wrbanek    wrbanek@fnalf.fnal.gov
  anyone except myself (thank God)   warner::wrbanek    wrbanek@elmer.fnal.gov
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 12:34:17 EDT
From:         "Patrick Scott" <PSCOTT@SUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Psychology

While many of us may agree that much of what we see in secular psychology
is "bull", let`s be careful about those sweeping generalizations!  If
you're willing to relegate the field of psychology to the level of
voodooism and witchdoctory, you're also implying that psychological
research has little to offer.  That means that empirical research in
small group dynamics, experiments in decision making, case studies of
the role of culture in shaping child rearing practices, etc. are all
worthless.  If we throw out Freud, Piaget, Erickson, and others, shall
we at the same time throw out theories on cognitive dissonance?  What
about the influence of authority or personalization on performance of
tasks within bureaucratic settings?  Was there nothing to be gained from
learning about the Hawthorne studies (Mayo, 1933?) or the Milgram (1974)
experiments, or even Jane Goodall`s experience with Chimpanzees?

Sure, there is a lot of "bull" in psychology, be it clinical psychology,
social psychology, experimental psychology, studies in deviant behavior,
etc.  But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.  The field as
a whole has provided a wealth of knowledge about human (and animal)
behavior, and to relegate it to the status of witchdoctory invites a
real credibility problem for the Christian community, imo.
                                                         Patrick
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Organization: University of Prince Edward Island
X-VMS-To: IN%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 08:55:00 -0400
From:         Lora Harris <LHARRIS@UPEI.CA>
Subject:      A reading for Thursday after Trinity 5

Reading for the Thursday after Trinity 5: A reading from Thomas Traherne,
"Centuries of Meditation".

To know God is life eternal.  There must therefore be some exceeding great
thing to be always attained in the knowledge of him.  To know God is to know
goodness.  It is to see the beauty of infinite love; to see it attended with
almighty power and eternal wisdom; and using both those in the magnifying of
its object.  It is to see the king of heaven and earth take infinite delight in
GIVING.  Whatever knowledge else you have of God, it is but superstition.
Which Plutarch rightly defineth, 'to be in ignorant dread of his divine power,
without any joy in his goodness.'  He is not an object of terror, but delight.
To know him therefore as he is, is to frame the most beautiful idea in all
worlds.  He delighteth in our happiness more than we,: and is of all others
the most lovely object.  An infinite lord, who having all riches, honours, and
pleasures in his own hand, is infinitely willing to give them unto me.  Which
is the fairest idea that can be devised.

From: "From the Fathers to the Churches: Daily Spiritual Readings "
      Editor, Brother Kenneth CGA
      Collins Liturgical Publications, Icehouse One - 401
      151 Union Street, San Francisco, CA 94111-1299
      copyright 1983 William Collins and Sons Ltd.
      ISBN 0-00-599749-6
      BV30.F76 1987 242'2 87-15090
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v2.2 (R4).
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 12:41:37 PST
From:         FRANK@LAW.UCLA.EDU
Subject:      Re: Warnke and the "Contemporary Christian" scene

Are there any DA, Swirling Eddies fans out there?
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 09:12:13 EDT
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         Angela Zimmerman <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Footprints

Item Retrieval Assistant, DADS
Phone: 588-6757

I just read a note by Lauren Arango saying that there was an article in
a magazine about the woman who wrote Footprints.  On everything I've ever
seen with Footprints on it, the author is either listed as unknown or
anonymous (can't remember which).  Are you sure she was the author of the
poem?  Did I completely miss something somewhere?  Thanks.



(Hi Madge, and anyone else who remembers me.  I'm back!)  :)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 07:02:04 EDT
From:         dave talaga x2752 <talaga@E5SB.OSDHW.SYR.GE.COM>
Subject:      Re: All about christia!
X-To:         christia@asuvm.inre.asu.edu

>
> Half of us are easy-going; the other half suffer from "polemia."
> The third half are easy-going about some things but really adamant about
> others.  I hope you'll find at least a few people with whom you can
> "connect."
>

To all those who sent replys to my inadvertent posts--thankyou.  My gratitude is
 only outdone by my embarrassment.

As for me: I'm and easy-going "polemicist."

Dave
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 11:26:03 -0400
From:         "Toni J. Benner" <tjbenner@COLBY.EDU>
Subject:      Watchman Nee - to Kerry

Kerry, I have been rereading "Latent power of the soul." His emphasis is
on the power that God bestowed on man at Creation was made latent at the
Fall. This power is now being used in occult practices. He also warns
Christians not to be too soulish, but let the Holy Spirit take control.
He warns of false repentence, false salvation, etc. I also read a long
time ago another book by him entitled, "Sit, walk, stand." This is
a Bible teaching book. By the way, I am interested in joining your
Bible study, but I don't know if I have the time. How much time do you
estimate that this will take on the computer each day?
Toni
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 00:47:30 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      wearing two hats

Bill Chapman writes:

 > We have Christians who will put on their scientist hats when they
 > study science, and accept all the claims of evolutionism. Then
 > with no qualms, on Sunday, they put on their Christian hats, and
 > study the claims of a Creator, and fail to see the dichotomy....

Suppose I give thanks to God for creating me, and also believe that
my biological life and most of my biological characteristics are
derived from those of my parents.  Am I guilty of an inconsistency
here? I think not.

Suppose that I pray with the Psalmist:  "Thou didst form my limbs
and organs in the womb" (Psalm 139), and that in the laboratory I
study the way in which the development of the fetus is regulated by
hormones and chemical signals, and by DNA.  Am I inconsistent here?
I doubt it.

Suppose I believe that the human race owes its origins and its
continued existence from moment to moment to the will and sustaining
providence of the Creator, and also believe that the human race is
derived from other species. Is this inconsistent? Nope.

May I recommend to you my essays on Genesis? To obtain the first,
send the message GET GEN01 RUFF to LISTSERV@ASUACAD. The first two
(there are seven) are particularly relevant to the question of
Darwinism and Genesis.

 Yours,
 James Kiefer
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"CHRISTIA%ASUACAD.BITNET@vaxf.Colorado.EDU"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 13:46:52 -0600
From:         Glennerd Skynard <S05152@DOC.FLC.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Masturbation: Gift of God or Sin from the Devil?

        This is Glenn, the new dude, speaking once again.  The items below
are my personal opinions (though they happen to agree with those of sev-
eral Christian friends of mine whom I hold in high regard).

        I personally feel that masturbation is a sin.  In the final
analysis, Christ says in Matthew that "Anyone who looks upon a woman
lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."  He
does not say exactly these words, but I believe the intent is the same.
When I masturbate (yes, I am a sinner too), I am not thinking about things
that glorify God but am instead thinking about various naked women doing
various sexually related things.  The intent to commit adultery is there
in my heart and adultery is taking place in my head.  I am every bit as
guilty of adultery (in my mind, at least) as someone who has actually
gone to bed with a partner outside of marriage.

        As far as dealing with this sin is concerned, I do not know of
any easy way of dealing with it.  I am 24 years old and have never had
a serious relationship with anyone (still waiting for that first princess).
And I have this nasty hunch that if I had been allowed to in my earlier
and less Christian days, I would have jumped at the first chance to have
a fling and commit adultery/fornicate.  My hormones are as lustful and
sinful ans those of most men my age.  But God has so far saved me from
myself, and I am still going to be able to enter a marriage in a pure
state.  I had nothing to do with this, and God had everything to do with
this.  The point is that God has the power to help you with this habit
and to *slowly* get you over it.  (He may decide to do it quickly, one
never knows.)  The things that I try to do to get over this are stay away
from things like bookstores (they carry girly magazines), video rental
places (movies that play to the wrong feelings, lusts, etc.), and stay
away from romance novels (durn burn, I wish that was me in that carriage
with her!!!).  Cut off the supply lines that satan uses to feed these
diseases and pray like the dickens.  When (not if) I do make a mistake
in this area, I just do my best to pray my way back to my feet again...
I just try to confess and move on, because I have run out of miracle
cures to try.

                           Hope this helps,



                            Glennerd :-)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:29:21 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      James bar-Zebedee, Apostle (25 July)
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET, BSTUDY-L@UTARLVM1.BITNET,
              IVCF-L@UBVM.BITNET

JAMES THE ELDER, APOSTLE (25 JULY)

James the son of Zebedee and his brother John were among the twelve
disciples of Our Lord. They, together with Peter, were privileged to
behold the Transfiguration, to witness the healing of Peter's
mother-in-law and the raising of the daughter of Jairus, and to be
called aside to watch and pray with Jesus in the garden of
Gethsemane on the night before His death.

James was put to death by order of King Herod Agrippa I, shortly
before Easter in the year 44 or earlier, and is the only Apostle
whose death is recorded in the New Testament.

PRAYER
   O gracious God, we remember before thee this day thy
   servant and apostle James, first among the Twelve to suffer
   martyrdom for the Name of Jesus Christ; and we pray that
   thou wilt pour out upon the leaders of thy Church that spirit
   of self-denying service by which alone thay may have true
   authority among thy people; through the same Jesus Christ
   our Lord, who liveth and reigneth with thee and the Holy
   Spirit, one God, now and for ever.

(OOPS: An earlier posting gave 11 July for the feast of Mary
Magdalene. That was a mistyping for 22 July.)
From: mueller@owlnet.rice.edu (Ernest Conrad Mueller)
Subject: Re: Divorce and remarriage
Organization: Rice University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 21:31:48 GMT

In order to clear up the confusion about what the Bible actually says on
this topic, I thought I'd post a list of references.

Matthew 19:3-12 : You may not divorce except for marital unfaithfulness
                  (A change from Deu. 24, where it can be for a lot)

Matthew 5:31-32 : Same thing in less detail

Mark 10:2-12 : Parallel passage to Matt 19
                  
1 Cor 7 : Separation from a husband is allowed, but not remarriage
          (esp. verse 11)

Genesis 3 : The first marriage

Ephesians 5 : Instructions for marriage

Romans 7 : Widows may remarry

So let's read all these and then there will be less all-round confusion.

Ernest Mueller
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Organization: University at Buffalo
X-Envelope-to: christia@asuacad.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IVCF,BIBLE,CHRISTIA
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 12:41:00 EST
From:         "MARK E. KEATING" <V067PXNR@UBVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      This is goodbye
X-To:         ivcf-l@ubvm.BITNET, bstudy-l@utarlvm1.BITNET,
              christia@asuacad.BITNET

Dear Friends.
You have been with me through a lot.  THis is goodbye as I head for the
dusty trail, to the path the Lord is leading me.


Please say a prayer that I will get a good job.



Many thanks, and see you all later,

Mark E. Keating

(you may see me again if I get an account where I'll be going.)

:-)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  JNET%"christia@asuacad"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 10:30:00 CST
From:         JULIA 204 <JRS1488@TAMVENUS.BITNET>
Subject:      witnessing to a friend

Fellow CHRISTIAns:
        For the past few days a friend of mine has been staying with me.  Her
name is Nina  she was an exchange student at my high school a few years ago
from Norway.  She and I became friends, and have kept in contact--now she's back
.  When she was here the first time, I was not a Christian (or at least far
from walking with the Lord) and that is the memory she has of me.  Now, I
attend a bible church, have friends who are Christians, and I no longer
do the 'things' (partying) that I did last time she was here.  She obviously
noticed the change and has been questioning me about it.  She seems VERY
interested in Christianity and is (I think) seeking the Lord.  I have shared
alot with her, but it's hard to explain Christ to someone who comes from a
country where a close walk with the Lord is not a common thing.  All of this
coming to her from someone who doesn't exactly a good past!!!
        I ask that ya'll will pray for her an
(oops, I'll begin that again...)   I ask that ya'll would pray for her.  That
she will seek the Lord more, and that God will give her someone back in Norway
who is a Christian and will answer questions and be an example for her.  She
told me that she believes all religons go to the same end--so I know she needs
someone more experienced in theology than me!!!  ( I mean that she thinks Buddis
t, Muslims, Christians, etc. all have the same God)
        She's leaving here today, and going back to Sherman (where I went to
high school) and I probably won't talk to her again while she's still in
this country.
        Please keep her, and her country, in your prayers!!!
                        IN HIS LOVE,     <>< Julia
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 11:04:14 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Footprints
              22 Jul 1992 09:12:13 EDT from <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>

Angela:

The story in Guideposts explains that the author of Footprints (I believe
her name is Powers?  Someone posted it, but I forgot already--time to
change the grey matter again, another 50000 miles, I guess :-)) only
recently was able to prove her authorship, by submitting a copy of
it she had made for a friend before the first known commercial publication
of the piece.  It's an interesting story.
                                           Love INC,
                                                    --Kerry
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: kilroy@gboro.glassboro.edu (Dr Nancy's Sweetie)
Subject: Snubbing God
Organization: Glassboro State College
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 03:04:37 GMT


Robert Weiss says that this section of a speech:

	We will not have a man in the White House who tells us what God says
	or tells us which god to obey, who tells which god to follow.

is an act of "snubbing God".  From my perspective, it's snubbing a human who
(supposedly) claims to be God's mouthpiece.

Can you explain how this constitutes a `snub' of God?  (For that matter, can
you explain exactly what you mean by a `snub'?)


Darren F Provine / kilroy@gboro.glassboro.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: mueller@owlnet.rice.edu (Ernest Conrad Mueller)
Subject: Re: Spiritual leadership in the home - not hierarchy!
Keywords: What does 1 Cor 3 really mean?
Organization: Rice University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:08:19 GMT

I think that there have been some good points made in this discussion.  Let
me add some things I've learned lately.

What does headship mean? (1 Cor 3)
This verse says "The head of the woman is man," and "the head of every man
is Christ."  But let us not forget it also says "the head of Christ is God."
We know that Christ is not below God, but is fully God.  But we also know
that in Christ's life on earth he was a servant to God, and said "The
father is greater than I."  How do we reconcile these?

Go to the Greek!
The word used here for "head" is "kephale," which does not imply rulership.
It is used in all of 1 Cor 3.

There is another word translated "head" which does mean this, some 
derivative of "arche" I think.  Kephale means the physical head, and also
means foremost in terms of position.  A general commanding armies would be
"arche," the first soldier into battle would be "kephale."  We associate going
ahead of someone as being superior, but that is not true in this case -
being the first into battle is not "superiority" per se.  A modern
definition of this would be the "point man" in a squad.  He is
"leading" the way, but he is not the leader (he's in the back where it's
safer).  

Kephale is also a term that was used to describe a capstone or cornerstone.
What does this mean for our verse?  It means that none of these pairs imply
an absolute rulership over.  Kephale has NONE of these implications, they
had a separate word for that (arche).  They also do NOT mean man is superior
to woman, for God is not "superior" to Christ.  It does mean, however,
that the man "goes before" his wife.  This would be protective, not the
proprietary "Walk two paces behind me, dear."  He also helps show her the way,
as Christ showed us the way to God.  Though Christ did the will of God, he was
himself God in man.     

In the other discussions of man and woman, Paul always uses kephale.  He
used arche with reference to rulers in the same letters, but not for
men and women.  

In summation, in the Greek the question of "headship" was not a question
of rulership or subordination.  The words used clearly indicated something
still gradated, but much closer.

So knowing this, what do people get out of 1 Cor 3 now?  Give me your
practical interpretations keeping in mind the real definition of
"head."

Ernest Mueller
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: University of Missouri-Columbia Campus Computing, 314-882-2000
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 13:03:13 CDT
From:         Elizabeth Stevens <CCCAMPER@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      Teachings of Jesus

I Am He Who Teaches

June 13, 1990

My dear child, do not be moved by the sayings of men, for the Kingdom
of God is not in speech, but in power.  Attend to the sayings I teach
you, to enlighten your heart and refresh your mind.  My words excite
in you and inflame in you consolation. I am He, the Master of all
Masters, Who teaches men knowledge.  I am He Who gives more clear
understanding to My dear ones than what can be taught by man.
Those to whom I speak are quickly wise, and grow in My Spirit.

  I teach sincerity and honesty. I teach without the noise of
  words; without contention of arguments; without the differences
  and confusion of opinions.  I teach to despise earthy desires,
  and to seek eternal life and relish it.  I teach to be strong
  and to endure scandals, and to desire nothing of Me but to
  ardently love Me.

The time will come when I, the Lord of all lords and Master of all
masters, shall come to examine the consciences of mankind; to bring
light to the hidden darkness and to silence all arguments!  I tell
you that those who love Me entirely will learn the Divine Truth.
For you, a certain person of My Divine Mercy, have learned Divine
things and speak wonders because you love Me entirely.

Seek not, by profiting in study, to be more wise or learned by books.
Know that whatever source of knowledge you learn always returns to
One Source of knowledge, One Beginning.  I teach the humble mind
many times greater than any source of reference taught by man.  Only
I can elevate the mind to comprehension! The voice of books is the
same, but it teaches you differently.  Only I am the teacher of Truth.
I am the Discerner of thoughts and the Searcher of hearts, and only I
give to all what I judge is fitting and appropriate.

I see the incentives of each one's heart, and discern their action.
I give to some more than others.  To some are revealed the light of
My mysteries.  Some receive common knowledge; some I appear to in
signs.  I speak to all, some in more particular ways than others
and differently, based on the graces I deem fit.

Know that I am true peace, and the sayings of men cannot harm your
soul, if you live in Me!  My peace results in a state of being which
justifies you, and the sound of words can only echo as in a canyon
without substance.  Those who are the first to speak negatively and
judge their fellow brethren are the last to notice the truth of
inner conflict inflicted upon themselves!

Silence is your shield and love is your weapon against all who
persecute.  Peace, My dear one! This is your lesson for My people
this day. Ad Deum.

( From "I Am Your Jesus of Mercy" by Riehle Foundation, PO Box 7,
Milford, Ohio, 45150. Reported messages from Our Lord to a member
of St. Maria Goretti Parish, Scottsdale, AZ )