HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rswiftrw@cc.curtin.edu.au (Rod Swift)
Subject: Re: Aussies and the Olypmics                    
Organization: -=[ Curtin University ]=-  Perth, Australia.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:56:02 GMT

>  I'm sure that us Aussies that only have access to US TV and radio
> would love to read about how the Australian team is doing in the
> Olympics. 

Try rec.sport.olympics for all the results of all the events.

Rod Swift
Swimming, Synchronised Swimming, Water Polo, Diving and Judo reporter.
-- 
  *******     *******     *******   |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 *       *   *       *   *       *  | The Games of the XXVth Olympiad |
*         * *         * *         * | Barcelona   July 25 to August 9 |
*       *******     *******       * |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 *     * *   * *   * *   * *     *                 Day 4
  *******     *******     *******   |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
      *         * *         *       |    RSwiftRW@cc.Curtin.edu.au    |
       *       *   *       *        | Rod Swift     Curtin University |
        *******     *******         |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian
From: cbs@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Chris Syed)
Subject: Reminder about email (Re: Australian citizens...)
Organization: UTCS Public Access
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 21:48:23 GMT

  I recently noticed that a private email message of mine got posted
  to the net and commented upon.

  While a newsgroup is "public", in the sense that items posted
  to it may be copied, forwarded, quoted, etc. within reason,
  as people implicitly give their permission for you to do so
  by the very act of posting, private electronic mail sent by 
  one person to another is NOT the same. It is _very_ bad netiquette 
  to post the contents of a private email message to the net.

-- 
--- 
       "We cannot think without imagining."  -- Thomas Aquinas
            cbs@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Chris Brown-Syed)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian,soc.culture.asean
From: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad)
Subject: Re: **** Australian citizens kidnapped by Malaysian Prince ****
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 03:38:52 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.055325.1@cc.curtin.edu.au> rswiftrw@cc.curtin.edu.au (Rod Swift) writes:

: 
: >> Please shut up.  You are making an absolute [international] fool of yourself
: 
: > I am tired arguing with you even in written medium. Your last phrase sums it
: > all.
: 
: Can't take the blatantly obvious facts of this statement of mine, or is the
: real reason why you have not even bothered to reply to my message is because
: I have defeated all your arguments...?
: 
: Well...  I gather you will reply to my message, as not replying will indicate
: that your point of view has faltered.
How could I? After being told to shut up. I had actually prepared another
article about my mother's case which is similar to NADRA and the children's
cases but I have lost it because I sent it in reply to a mail query.
	Could that guy Chris Syed post that message here?

I do not want to waste time on fools.

--
Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet

Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian,soc.culture.asean
From: ytay@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu (AUS:TAY,YIAN)
Subject: Re: Loving Malaysian Prince:New Developments
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Oklahoma - University Computing Services
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 13:37:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.113752.1272@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg>, eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes...
>News Straits Times, Singapore(Page 2):
>1. The Malasian Prince called Raja Kamarul held a press conference at a hotel
>in Kuala Lumpur, with his children Raja Baharuddin(9) and Raja Shahiran(7)m
>contradicting news that they are in Indonesia.
>
> [ uninteresting stuff deleted to save time and space]

> 
>The above do not tell the WHOLE STORY/TRUTH. What do you expect from Chinese
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Journalists/editors.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And what is this supposed to mean???  Trying to bring the Chinese into
your idiotic argument too?  Raja Kamarul might be a prince to you
but he is a nobody to me.

Since you are so smart, why don't you tell us the truth?? But why should
I believe that what you said is the whole story/truth?  You could jolly 
well fabricate your story to your advantage too....


yian...

>>  [idiotic stuff deleted to prevent eye sore infection]

>Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
>Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
>Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
>Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet
> 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian,soc.culture.asean
From: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad)
Subject: Loving Malaysian Prince:New Developments 
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 11:37:52 GMT

News Straits Times, Singapore(Page 2):
1. The Malasian Prince called Raja Kamarul held a press conference at a hotel
in Kuala Lumpur, with his children Raja Baharuddin(9) and Raja Shahiran(7)m
contradicting news that they are in Indonesia.

2. Raja Kamarul said that his former wife herself left with the children for
Australia in late 1986 on the pretext of visiting her sick grandmother(exact
words from NST)
	"I was very reluctant to let them go but I finally agreed and gave in
after much pressure from her and my family", he said.

(read carefully the words "my family")

3. A seniour Malaysian official in the Law Ministry said that under the
Syariah law, Mrs Gillespie forfeited her rights over the children when she
baptised them and went against the vows she had taken when she became a 
Muslim on marrying the prince.

4. Earlier in Sydney, the chief judge of Australia's Family court, Mr Justice
Alastair Nicholson, called for tougher government action in cases of
international child abduction.
IMHO: ABSOLUTELY

The above do not tell the WHOLE STORY/TRUTH. What do you expect from Chinese
Journalists/editors.

Berita Harian, Singapore(Page 2):
Almost the same as the above except:
Picture of Raja Kamrul Baharin with a document not clear on the Newspaper,
with description translated like:

SHOW EVIDENCE: Raja Baharin showed photostatic copies of birth certificates of
his 2 children who were born in Kuala Trengganu.

TUNJUK BUKTI: Raja Baharin menunjukkan salina fotosta sijil kelahiran kedua-dua
anaknya yang dilahirkan di Kuala Lumpur - Gambar Bernama

 
--
Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet
From: tmarvan@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Thomas Marvan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian
Subject: Allan's Music Store Address in Melbourne
Date: 24 Jul 92 02:20:13 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

Could someone tell me the address of Allan's music in Melbourne. If
I recall, it's on Collins Street. I have someone here in the US
who's interested in ordering some sheet music from there, so it
would be greatly appreciated.....




Tom Marvan.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian
From: kym@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (R. Kym Horsell)
Subject: Re: Aussies and the Olypmics                    
Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 20:11:34 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.142900.4037@inel.gov> @gemstone.inel.gov () writes:
>
> BTW, just to add a thought to the pay-TV proposals - you can watch
>the Olympics here in the States on 2 special cable channels - and
>at a bargain price of a little less than $9/day.

2 channels?  Why do they call it a TRIPLE-CAST then, old man?
(BTW, it's also in NBC ad-nauseum).

-kym
Xref: sparky soc.culture.australian:3651 soc.culture.asean:4947
From: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian,soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: **** Australian citizens kidnapped by Malaysian Prince ****
Date: 24 Jul 92 03:26:38 GMT
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore

In article <1992Jul22.221344.15385@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> peta@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (Peter Whaite) writes:

: In article <1992Jul22.045043.14744@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
: >
: >Islam does not require circumcision as a condition
: >to be a Muslim. Only the above statement. Circumcison is practised for 
: >health reasons. This practice is carried over from Judaism. My daughter was
: >circumcised. At first I was worried after reading all the horror stories but
: >when I take a closer look it is nothing more that the remover an outer skin
: >of something there.
: >	My wife is also circumcised. You know how I feel.
: 
: Are you circumsized?
: If so at what age were you circumsized?
I was circumcised at the age of 11.

: If you were aged 9 years or younger when you were circumsized did you "think
: for yourself" and make a voluntary choice?
I always thought that my brain is better when I was 11 then now. A lot of my
philosophies originate when I was at that age, including religious philosophies.

What makes you think that I cannot think for myself at the age of 9?
I recall making demands to my parents at that age. I even quarrel and argue
with them. Even my 4 year old can point out my mistakes, even grammar and 
behaviour. Can play video games better than I.
	Western culture always do not treat their children with respect. They
only consider the adult's point of view. There are of course exceptions.
I have just heard from my colleague about family courts in England.
	Even though you may think that the children cannot decide now, approach
them later on then, when they are older, e.g. Right or wrong, is not up to
us to decide. The welfare of the children is in their current perception. If 
they find out that they have made the wrong decision, the can back-track later
on. Just write a letter to their mother. Or better still call her by phone.
	Surely their father would not imprison their children in a house. It
is illegal in Malaysia.

: 
: Also I was under the impression that in Judaism only males were circumsized.
: Guess I was wrong.
: 
: 

--
Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet
Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian
From: rxo868@huxley.anu.edu.au (Remo Ostini)
Subject: Re: Loving Malaysian Prince:New Developments
Keywords: etiquette, information
Organization: Australian National University
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 03:33:01 GMT

Okay people, perhaps it's time we all went and read the news.announce.newusers
file on net etiquette.  Try to relax a little and keep the discussion civil.

As for the state of affairs regarding custody of the children we seem to have
missed an important point.  The children were born in Malaysia after the
mother married a Malaysian man in a Muslim ceremony.  The children came to
Australia after the mother said she was coming here to visit her sick mother.
Her action in then remaining in Australia and getting custody through the
courts is in practice exactly the same thing as the Prince has now done.  The
Prince has spent the last six years trying to work within the Australian court
system to sort out access and privileges and the like.  If you take into
account that he was doing this from Malaysia you get an idea of the
committment he has demonstrated to his children.  Obviously the mother is
keen to show the same committment and she will have to do that through the
Malaysian courts.  It is important to realise that the father taking the
children to Malaysia isn't the first event in this saga.  The story began in
1985 when the mother "kidnapped" the children from Malaysia.  The father tried
for six years to work within the system but the final straw came when the 
mother had the children baptised in a christian church.  He could not accept
this and decided to take the matter into his own hands.  This may seem
unreasonable to us but don't forget that the mother did exactly the same thing.

I don't want this to sound like I'm writing to support Othman.  I'm not.  But
I do think it is important that a more balanced picture is presented.  Othman
has been very rude and obnoxious in his posts but then so have some others.
Let's just realise that there is more to the story than was first presented
in the Australian press.  I should add that the above information is also
from the Australian press (Canberra Times editorial, 27/7; ABC Radio, 28/7).
The story has been a bit slow in coming out, but even lack of information is
no excuse to be rude.

Have a nice day all! :-)

Remo


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Remo Ostini			*  rxo868@huxley.anu.edu.au
NCEPH, ANU			*
GPO Box 4			*
Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian,soc.culture.asean
From: steve@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (Steve Balogh (+61 3 565 4747))
Subject: Re: **** Australian citizens kidnapped by Malaysian Prince ****
Organization: Monash University, Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 06:26:02 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.174053.1@cc.curtin.edu.au> rswiftrw@cc.curtin.edu.au (Rod Swift) writes:
>
>I did not even say they were your laws..!   Talk about sycophantic attitudes!
                                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^
I don't think he will be able to understand this word....

>I was using the example to show YOUR double standard by saying the prince CAN
>IGNORE AUSTRALIAN LAWS.  So FOAD.
                             ^^^^
This may need spelling out as well. I don't think it is in the dictionary.

>Please shut up.  You are making an absolute fool of yourself in a multinational
>newsgroup.

You can't make him shut up. He is a fanatic.

>Rod

Steve
Organization: Middle East Technical University - Computer Center
Date: Monday, 27 Jul 1992 13:51:15 TUR
From: <E59775@TRMETU.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian
Subject:    RMIT (Help Needed)



      Can anyone help me in finding the e-mail address
      of graduate admissions of the department of the
      Aeronautical Engineering of RMIT ?

      Thanksin advance.

- H S Shafi
Department of Aeronautical Engineering
Middle East Technical University
Ankara, Turkey.
From: stong@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (Simon Tong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian
Subject: Manners,or the lack of (Was Re: **** Australian citizens kidnapped ...****)
Date: 27 Jul 92 04:21:25 GMT
Organization: University of Melbourne

In article <1992Jul24.093001.22614@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
>In article <2797@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU> stong@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (Simon Tong) writes:
>
>: 
>: I can't understand why is the Australian Government so afraid of taking a stand on 
>
>Because they are more clever than you are.
>
>--
>Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
>Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
>Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
>Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet





This article is the beginning of Othman's insult to various netters.

The Net being a relatively limited medium for discussion, etiquette must
be observed to ensure communication.

When Othman stoops to insult and takes on a offensive stance, I can only
assume he is not interested in a discussion anymore.

Well, what can you say ?

I say "Good bye Othman, I hope you are not typical of your faith."





Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian
From: c9110440@wombat.newcastle.edu.au (Seni seviyorum, Esra Karaman!!!)
Subject: Re: **** Australian citizens kidnapped ...****
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 02:48:37 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.183358.12011@riacs.edu>, nicholso@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Melvin H. Nicholson YBH) writes:
> I have not included any of the previous articles, because that would...

[Article deleted since there is no need to quote it.]

> ...which exists is found.
> 
> Mel
>  
> 	

I applaud that posting.  It is perhaps the most level headed posting I have
seen on this thread if not ever, then in a very long while.

It was well thought out, and presented with as little bias as possible
(perhaps becuase Mel is possibly an American, and so, has a resonably
neutral attitude).

As to his points, I believe that nothing Diplomatic will happen, as the
Australian Government, lead by Keating is at the moment trying to forge
closer links with SEA in particular, and doesn't need a crisis with any
SEA nation, particularly one that has been a source of concern before.

I also believe that the children will end up staying in Malaysia as the 
court action will fail (for reasons I won't go into here), and have resigned
myself to that, although I would prefer the children to be returned.

This is just one example of how far we have yet to go, as people as a whole,
to get solutions which satisfy everyone...if such solutions are obtainable.

We can only hope.

Fal.
From: che358w@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian,soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: **** Australian citizens kidnapped by Malaysian Prince ****
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:38:24 +1000
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia

In article <1992Jul24.023830.11870@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg>, eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
> In article <12428@inews.intel.com> shahrul@mipos3.intel.com (Shahrul Yazid Yahaya) writes:
>
> : >
> : >>Incredible isn't it? Especially against the children's will. The 9 year olds
> : >>can already shout at the airports, airplanes etc.
> : >
> : >If he can get out of Australia without passing through customs,
> : >immigration etc. then he would have no trouble keeping them quiet
> : >if he wanted to.
> How? Put them into suit cases!
> How can he get out of Australia without going through customs and immigration.
> Are you implying that he has a private jet plane? Most royalties are poor in
> Malaysia, at least not rich enough to own a private jet plane.
>       Are you implying that he uses boat to smuggle his children? If that
> is the case, it would take him days to arrive to Malaysia. He has already
> arrived in Malaysia yesterday. I do not have the details yet.
  Yes, that is the current story. He is alleged to have taken them by motor
boat. I don't know if this has been confirmed.
>       If he has escaped Australian customs and immigration then he may
> be prosecuted by the Australian government. Have they?
  Why should it be any easier to prosecute him forbreaching this law than the
regarding kidnapping and custidy of children ?
>
>
> --
> Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
> Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
> Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
> Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet
>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian,soc.culture.asean
From: kcj@vulcan.anu.edu.au (Kate Juliff)
Subject: Re: **** Australian citizens kidnapped by Malaysian Prince ****
Organization: Australian National University, Canberra, Australia
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 00:08:57 GMT

In article <BryHsI.Lr3@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> cbs@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Chris Syed) writes:
>In article <1992Jul24.023830.11870@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
>>	If he has escaped Australian customs and immigration then he may
>>be prosecuted by the Australian government. Have they?
>    ^^^^^^^^^^
>   Little late for that once he'd escaped, eh? I think you mean that
>   the Australian govt. should request that Malaysia extradite him
>   back to Oz for trial, assuming that the two countries _have_ extradition
>   agreements. If not, bet the situation is, as we say, "hosed". 
>
>   And a good question. Have they????

No. 
>   
>   Prince or peasant, this chap _seems_ to have violated Australian law & 
>   sovreignty... If this were Canada, you can bet the opposition parties
>   would have made _lots_ of political hay over this... ministerial
>   resignations would be demanded... photo opportunities would be 
>   generated. Is the case stirring up a storm in Canberra?? What do 
>   the tabloids say??? 
>
The tabloids are saying a bit. But our foreign minister Gareth Evans is
weak, and would prefer to big-note himself to the Malaysians rather
than stand up for the rights of Australian citizens.

-- 
Kate Juliff                           | kcj@matilda.vut.edu.au
Victoria University                   |
P.O. BOX 14428,                       |
MELBOURNE MAIL CENTRE, AUSTRALIA 3000 |
Xref: sparky soc.culture.australian:3698 soc.culture.asean:5059
From: rxo868@huxley.anu.edu.au (Remo Ostini)
Subject: Re: Loving Malaysian Prince:New Developments
Originator: rxo868@huxley
Keywords: etiquette, info
Organization: Australian National University
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 03:43:19 GMT

Okay people, perhaps it's time we all went and read the news.announce.newusers
file on net etiquette.  Try to relax a little and keep the discussion civil.

As for the state of affairs regarding custody of the children we seem to have
missed an important point.  The children were born in Malaysia after the
mother married a Malaysian man in a Muslim ceremony.  The children came to
Australia after the mother said she was coming here to visit her sick mother.
Her action in then remaining in Australia and getting custody through the
courts is in practice exactly the same thing as the Prince has now done.  The
Prince has spent the last six years trying to work within the Australian court
system to sort out access and privileges and the like.  If you take into
account that he was doing this from Malaysia you get an idea of the
committment he has demonstrated to his children.  Obviously the mother is
keen to show the same committment and she will have to do that through the
Malaysian courts.  It is important to realise that the father taking the
children to Malaysia isn't the first event in this saga.  The story began in
1985 when the mother "kidnapped" the children from Malaysia.  The father tried
for six years to work within the system but the final straw came when the
mother had the children baptised in a christian church.  He could not accept
this and decided to take the matter into his own hands.  This may seem
unreasonable to us but don't forget that the mother did exactly the same thing.

I don't want this to sound like I'm writing to support Othman.  I'm not.  But
I do think it is important that a more balanced picture is presented.  Othman
has been very rude and obnoxious in his posts but then so have some others.
Let's just realise that there is more to the story than was first presented
in the Australian press.  I should add that the above information is also
from the Australian press (Canberra Times editorial, 27/7; ABC Radio, 28/7).
The story has been a bit slow in coming out, but even lack of information is
no excuse to be rude.

Have a nice day all! :-)

Remo




-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Remo Ostini			*  rxo868@huxley.anu.edu.au
NCEPH, ANU			*
GPO Box 4			*
Newsgroups: soc.culture.australian,soc.culture.asean