HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (patterson,george r)
Subject: Re: GFCI question
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 20:31:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.154539.24311@meaddata.com> richt@meaddata.com (Rich Thompson) writes:
>
>   Well, now that we  have established that  a GFCI protects
>   downstream outlets, what's the best  way  to determine if
>   one outlet is downstream to another?

Disconnect the outlet and see what goes off. If you have a GFCI in the
system, just hit the test button.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | Always acknowledge a fault frankly. This will
George Patterson -  | throw those in authority off their guard and give
                    | you the opportunity to commit more.
                    |                        Samuel Clemens
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Ceiling Fan Recommendations Wanted
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:07:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.011857.29384@ims.com> billr@falcon.ims.com writes:
>I understand that Hunter fans are VERY good.  Quiet, low-vibration,
>and durable.

Yes, they are very good for the price.  Most models are fairly simple
construction and up there with Casablanca (very overpriced, but a large
selection is available most places, of all designs) and Newtone (much
better prices, but haven't seen that many designs around, very similar
to Casablanca construction).

Most other brands can be found somewhere around the bottom, but for
most applications, that's okay.  Fans tend to last quite awhile
with no maintenance.  Some of the Mcgraw-Edison fans from 50 years
ago are still going strong.

GMS
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Surge protection - how does it work?
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 19:20:59 CST
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

goddard+@cs.cmu.edu (Nigel Goddard) writes:

> 
> I have a surge protected outlet in my study.  I took it apart
> to figure out how it works.  I had assumed it was like GFI but
> I find it isn't (it doesn't have line and load).  GFI works by
> breaking the circuit if current differences are detected.  I
> think surge protection works by shorting the circuit if a voltage
> spike occurs.  Can anyone confirm this or explain how surge protection
> works?  If my idea is correct, then it would seem that any other
> outlet on the same circuit as my surge protected outlet is also
> surge protected.  Is this correct?

You're not correct.

Surge protection is not trivial; basically, a protector will clamp
(or try to, anyway; sometimes they die trying) a voltage surge or
spike. Since all wire has both resistance and inductance, the 
effects of the surge protector are only felt on the downstream
side. (Imagine your house wiring is a very complex LCR circuit.
It really is....) The LR interaction will prevent the protectors'
effects from being felt upstream from it, due to the sheer mass
of it (there's quite a bit of impedance, inductance, and resistance
effects in #12 copper when you're putting a couple of KV fast
rise time spike through it).

The only way to get whole-house surge protection is to install one
of the big service panel surge protectors.

Gary Heston, at home....
gary@cdthq.uucp
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: lowry@watson.ibm.com (Andy Lowry)
Subject: Re: GFCI question
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 14:55:01 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
	<MACRAKIS.92Nov12110854@lakatos.osf.org> <10885@wrgate.wr.tek.com>
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <10885@wrgate.wr.tek.com> davidbu@loowit.wr.tek.com (David E. Buxton) writes:
 > While a GFCI will indeed protect outlets downstream, whether they
 > be two prong or three prong, a GFCI will not convert a two prong
 > wiring system into a three prong wiring system.  If you want to use
 > three prong outlets, that third prong must ultimately conduct back
 > to earth ground and do so independently of your white wire power
 > return.  So, if you don't have that third wire wired in your series
 > of outlets, you can't change your outlets to three prong outlets
 > simply by adding a GFCI.  A GFCI will make them two prong outlets
 > safe, but it won't make em three pronged.

Can I ask for a clarification?  When you say "... you can't change
your outlets to three prong outlets simply by adding a GFCI" do you
mean it's illegal or just that you're not going to end up with the
same kinds of protection that the third prong normally gives you?

I did exactly this, partly because in today's world two-prong outlets
are an extreme nuisance, especially when you're trying to childproof a
home.  Those 2-3 converter plugs strike me as far less safe than the
GFCI solution, and they also prevent you from effectively protecting
the outlet from small hands, at least given the childproofing products
I've come across.  Did I do something against code?  Certainly the
three-prong outlets I installed downstream are every bit as protected
as the three-prong outlets in the GFCI device itself, given that I
left the GFCI ground terminal unconnected (no ground available).
--
Andy Lowry, lowry@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7925
IBM Research, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598
From: pete@carrera.wvus.org (Pete Gregory)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: "Full Spectrum" Lighting
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 08:44:34 PST
Organization: Private System

macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis) writes:

> If you use fluorescent lights in domestic applications, you should
> always use the high-quality phosphors.  I think they're worthwhile in
> offices, too.  You can choose bulbs both for color temperature (to be
> technical, "correlated" color temperature, since only black bodies
> have color temperatures) and color quality (CRI, measured on a scale
> of 100).
> 
>     Very Cool/blue: C50 (5000 K), C75 (7500 K) excellent quality,
> 	  Vita-lite has a color temperature of 5000 K.
>     Cool: (4100 K)
>     Medium: (3500 K)
>     Warm/pinkish: (3000 K)
> 	  WWX Warm White Deluxe very good quality, moderate efficiency
>     Very Warm/reddish (2700 K, same color as incandescent): IF
> 	  The "compact fluorescents" that screw into regular sockets
> 
> Colors to avoid: CW (Cool White), WW (Warm White a.k.a. Soft White),
>     and especially LW (Light White).

where do "Daylight" bulbs fit in?  i have these in the kitchen and
laundry room.  i like them a lot, but realize there is always room
for improvement.


Pete Gregory, at home

pete@carrera.wvus.org
ames!elroy!wvus!carrera!pete
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: cs@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (cetin.seren)
Subject: need help w GE induction cooktop/oven
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 03:41:02 GMT
Keywords: induction, cooktop

Well, Our 20year old Sears Cooktop (electric) finally died...
We actually revived it once with a wire harness kit and used
it for about a year, but now the rheostat's, or the heating
elements controls, are DEAD.....


We are interested in the GE (or Kenmore, as Sears sells them) induction
cooktops.  We like the fact that the surfce remains cold, except for the
metal that's on top, and the fact that only cookware made of magnetic metals
works with does not bother us.  However, by some other appliance vendors,
who sell GE equipment, we've been told that even GE does not make them
anymore, and the reason for that is the fact that they could not sell
a whole lot of those.

We'd appreciate the help of the netters, if anybody out there can
help us out with:
  1) the pros and cons of induction cooktops.
  2) their lifetime and known problems...
  3) the fact that they do generate radiation -- not inthe microvwave
      band, maybe, but it still is radiation...  does anyone
      know of any studies in this respect?
  4) I noticed that the surface does get dull after a while.
     does this effect the performance at all?


Anyway, we'll appreciate any help the netters can give us.
please respond to:
cs@karin.att.com


			Thanks,
			Cetin Seren
			(215) 868 5873
			cs@karin.att.com




Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: mja@philabs.philips.com (Michael Amato)
Subject: Programmable thermostats
Originator: mja@hercules
Reply-To: mja@philabs.philips.com (Michael Amato)
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff, NY 10510
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:04:15 GMT


I was following the thread on this a few weeks ago, and I have a related
question: Is there a system available that will slave remote zones (I have
an oil fired HW baseboard system with 4 zones) with one master programmer,
allowing each loop to have its own temperature cycling program? Would this be
cheaper than 4 independent programmable thermostats?


-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael Amato  DoD#0639 | "If pro is the opposite of con,       |
| mja@philabs.philips.com | then what is Congress"? - Will Rogers |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Installing garage door openers
From: Chad Miller <chad@lilly.com>
Date: 10 Nov 92 14:22:51 EST
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Eli Lilly and Company
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12X-XXDate: Tue, 10 Nov 92 19:10:27 GMTLines: 27

I'm trying (emphasize trying) to install a Genie 9550 1/2 hp 
garage door opener.  I got to the part about mounting it at
least 2 1/2 inches higher than the top of the tracks the door
rolls on.  The spring for the door is about 2 1/2 inches higher
than the track and then there is about a 1/2 inch between the
top of the spring and the ceiling.  So, no room for the mounting
bracket or the screw housing.

ceiling ------------------------------
  1/2 inch        |  ....  |
spring  ((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))
                  |  ````  |
  2 inches        |        |
                  ----------
tracks  ===                        ===
        ==                          ==
        =                            =

The manual explicitly says to place the thing at least 2 1/2 
inches above the tracks.  What can I do?

/-----------------------\------------------------------\
| Chad Miller            \ Lilly Research Laboratories | 
| Systems Manager/Analyst \ 2001 West Main St. MS GL18 |  
| Internet: chad@lilly.com \ Greenfield, Indiana 46140 | 
| miller@nuacc.acns.nwu.edu \ (317)277-4107 Fax: -4962 |
\----------------------------\-------------------------/
From: lsnow@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM (Linda Snow)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: OK to pound nails into concrete blocks?
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:12:11 GMT
Reply-To: lsnow@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM (Linda Snow)
Organization: NCR E&M CLEMSON Liberty, SC

When I wanted to hang pictures in a concrete-block basement, I found
these things at the hardware store, I think called "masonry picture
hangers" or some such.  It was a plastic hanger with several very thin
metal nail-like things sticking out the back -- you just pound it into
the wall with a hammer.
From: mike@ncrspks.SparksNV.NCR.COM (Michael Clymer)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: wagner airless sprayer
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:40:13 GMT
Reply-To: mike@ncrspks.SparksNV.NCR.COM (Root)
Organization: NCR Corporation, FESC 778 Sparks

In article <gmVPTB1w164w@carrera.wvus.org> pete@carrera.wvus.org (Pete Gregory) writes:
>
>getting the airless sprayer sounds intriguing to me.  i could paint the 
>room quickly and with a lot less hassle than rolling it, and for a lot
>less $$$ than hiring a painter.  the paint shop guy says there is
>"practically no overspray" with this sprayer (i'd still drop-cloth
>*everything* and use a cardboard spray shield, since i've already painted
>the walls).

	I spray painted my metal lawn furniture with a Wagner in my garage.
	Fortunately, I had moved my car down the road.  Everything, and
	I mean everything that was not in drawers or completely covered
	had overspray on it!  I could not believe how much it poofed out,
	compared to spray cans.

	Beware of overspray!  It is really there!


|   Michael Lee Clymer, Systems Administrator, NCR Corporation, Sparks    |
|   voice: (702)856-1832                 |          MORE POWER!           | 
|   VoicePlus: 270-1000                  | "If everything works, you have | 
|   Email: mike.clymer@SparksNV.NCR.COM  |  completed the installation."  |
From: ec@fc.hp.com (Edgar_Circenis)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Finishing the basement. What to do with the support poles??
Date: 6 Nov 92 15:48:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: fc.BxAx9n.1px
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Steven Bellovin (smb@ulysses.att.com) wrote:
> In article <Bx3zyz.34p@fc.hp.com>, ec@fc.hp.com (Edgar_Circenis) writes:
> > I know it's too late for doing this now, and I also know that a lot of
> > people probably wouldn't approve, but when I finished my basement, the
> > walls were placed such that the posts were inside of them.
> 
> It's not a matter of approving or not -- in our basement, one of
> the poles is in more or less the exact center of the total space.
> If you put a wall there -- and whoever finished the basement didn't --
> you'd end up with much less usable space.

Well, sometimes it is.  I wans't referring to the physical arrangement
of walls, but the fact that if you build the post into a wall, you then
lose access to the post.

Some people think this is important because these posts are adjustable,
which may come in handy if your house settles in an unfriendly way.
Personally, I don't think it will happen.

Edgar
From: langston@langston.cs.utk.edu (Mike Langston)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Ceiling Fan Recommendations Wanted
Date: 10 Nov 92 16:00:14 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Tennessee
Distribution: world
Reply-To: langston@langston.cs.utk.edu (Mike Langston)
NNTP-Posting-Host: langston.cs.utk.edu

bill rea says:

> I understand that Hunter fans are VERY good.  Quiet, low-vibration,
> and durable.

i can vouch for that if you're talking about the high-end hunter 
ORIGINAL models (i have seven) -- these use time-tested oil-bath 
bearings and so forth -- these are not to be confused with hunter's 
low-end line, which by all accounts seem to be about the same as 
many of the other modest-quality fans on the market

-- 
mike langston <langston@cs.utk.edu>
department of computer science, university of tennessee
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: mryan@stsci.edu
Subject: Re: Getting Ready to Sell House: How to Make it Most Appealing?
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: usa,na
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:03:51 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.171921.10839@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, bruno@cupid.enet.dec.com (Greg Bruno) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Nov11.153310.16613@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, sbrenner@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (scott.d.brenner) writes...
>> 
>>I'd like to hear from people who have sold a house and have tips and 
>>suggestions on the things you did that made the most difference.
>>... 
>>Any other comments on selling a house would be appreciated.
>> 
> [...]
>      As phoney as this sounds, having a family member comfortably reading 
> a book in front of the fireplace has a good effect.  People tend to be 
> sappy about those "Norman Rockwell" images.
> 

I disagree.  All family members should LEAVE the house when an agent is
showing it.  The potential buyers will be much more at ease without the
owner being around.  I remember I felt uncomfortable looking at houses
with the family there; I felt like an intruder.


>      Make sure no "evil scents" are present in the whole house.  We retain
> memories of bad smells for a long time.  Hide those dirty socks in the hamper.
> 

This is very important.  I sold a house last year, and I had two cats and
a dog.  I cleaned the litterbox daily and got a plug-in air freshener for 
the livingroom.  I took the kids and the dog out to the back yard when
agents brought people by.

As far as the original questions about wallpapering a bathroom and adding
a basement bathroom:  skip the wallpaper, just paint it.  Most new owners
will want to decorate it themselves, and it's a lot easier for them to
repaint or wallpaper without having to strip off YOUR wallpaper.

I doubt that adding an extra bathroom would get you more money than you
spend doing it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mary Ryan			mryan@stsci.edu
Space Telescope Science Institute
Baltimore, Maryland
From: sym@Virginia.EDU ("Stephen Maupin")
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Whole house water neutralizer
Date: 6 Nov 92 22:17:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: Virginia.1992Nov6.221721.13652
Organization: University of Virginia


	The well at the house I purchased a year ago produces
water that is somewhat acidic.  Apparently, the water is not
harmful to drink (ph 5.8), but is harmful to the copper pipes,
to say nothing of the green stains the copper leaves on sinks,
showers, etc.  Allowing the problem to continue will soon lead
to pipe and faucet failures.
	Does anyone have experience with the water neutralizer
tanks that can be added to the water inlet line?  Most
apparently use a calcium additive in crystal form or do the
neutralizing thru the injection of a solution directly into the
pluming.  Specifically, I'm looking for sources, cost,
methodology, satisfied customers, etc. and whatever can be
added that may be of use.
	Thanks in advance for all replies.  Specific replies
can be sent to sym@uva.pcmail.virginia.edu

Steve Maupin...University of Virginia
From: emolinar@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Elizabeth Molinaro)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: leaving house with VA loan
Date: 12 Nov 92 13:39:24 GMT
Reply-To: emolinar@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Elizabeth Molinaro)
Organization: Stakeholder Relations, NCR Corp in Dayton,OH

In article <sprinkle.721437877@convex.convex.com> sprinkle@convex.com (Robert
Sprinkle) writes:
>I assumed an existing VA loan about 5 years ago on my current home.  The
>divorce occurred about a year ago and I got the home and the monster
>mortgage payment.  I was stubborn enough to try and keep the house even
>with the big payment.  Reality has set in and I must leave the house.
>the following would happen......
>1. The mortgage company would go to the VA for the loan guarantee.
>2. The VA would go to the original buyer for recourse.
>I know there would be a blight on my credit report butit already looks like
>an exploded mine field.  My question is would I be pretty much out of the
>picture as far as the VA and the mortgage company are concerned?
>I really dont want to screw the original buyer but, I am in a pretty


        BOB.  You will be screwing the original buyer.  This just
        happened to my sister-in-law and her husband.

        I feel very strongly about this: because you were, in your
        own admission "stubborn" you want to ruin the financial life
        of someone else rather than sell at a loss to YOU.  You created
        the debt.  Do the honorable and decent thing and live up to
        your responsibilities.  Period.  

        For Angie and Joe (the aforementioned relatives), who's buyers
        defaulted on the loan, the situation has meant almost financial
        ruin:  to a couple who lived, and continue to live, extremely
        conservatively financially.  Please do not trash the lives
        of people who had nothing to do with your divorce or your
        stubborness.


From: bsplaine@mtmtl8.sr.hp.com (Bill Splaine)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:20:06 GMT
Subject: Re: Loose Floorboards
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (SRSD MWTD)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house

Just a suggestion.  Forget the glue.. Ya have to crawl under the house, find
the loose floor joist/sheeting, try to squeeze glue into the slot etc.......

Loose, squeeky floors are caused by the original floor joists being made of
green wood... which shrinks causing loose nails etc.

Your choice is to renail into the now dry wood... by far the cheapest choice.
Annular nails hold very well and will not pull away from dried wood.

or....

Buy a small package of 1 1/4" sheetrock screws.  These are hardened screws that
are very sharp and screw in very easily with any of the screw guns.  If you do
it by hand, you will probably want to predrill the holes with an undersized   
drill and then screw them in.  This is by far the most excellent method of
permanently eliminating the squeek (in that location)  Ya don't need to remove
the old screw, just tap it in and place the screw adjacent to it.
<<<Note>>> I said 1.25" screws.  This is based on 5/8"flooring.  Just make sure
the screws are about 1/2" longer than floor thickness (minimum).

If you were not removing the carpet. there is a "fixture that can be screwed
into the floor from the underside and tie the floor and joist together.
Fortunately, with the carpet removed, you are in 'fat city'.

Good Luck, Bill
From: patti@hosehead.intel.com (Patti Beadles)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Painting Cabinets, Scotchguarding Furniture
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:18:55 GMT
Reply-To: patti@hosehead.intel.com
Organization: Intel Corporation, Hillsboro, OR
Originator: patti@hosehead

The cabinets in the condo that I'm buying are a really gross dark
brown wood.  I'd like to make them either black or white, though I
haven't decided which.  Is painting them the best way to go?  The
cheapest way?  What kind of paint should I use?

How about cabinet refacing?

(I know I've seen this question before.) Is spray-on Scotchguard as
good as what the furniture store does?  Levitz wants $80 or so to do a
couch.  It's white, so it probably needs something.
-- 
Patti Beadles  503/696-4358 | I don't speak for Intel, nor vice-versa.
   patti@hosehead.intel.com |
   75555.767@compuserve.com | If it wasn't for the last minute,
or just yell, "Hey, Patti!" |             I'd never get anything done!
From: goris@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Andy Goris)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 05:06:38 GMT
Subject: Re: TV antenna in the attic?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house

If you're putting an antenna in your attic, I recommend the following
procedure:
   Assemble the antenna in your driveway, and attach to a long pole
   (10 ft. or more).  Bring your TV outside, and hook it to the antenna
   using the same cable you'll run in the house.  Now, turn on the TV,
   hold up the antenna, and rotate it (the antenna) until you get the best 
   picture.  Check EVERY CHANNEL you intend to watch.  Optimizing for one 
   channel may destroy the reception on another channel.  Remeber the
   angle that the antenna is pointed, and assemble it in your attic
   with the same orientation.  This extra work will usually save you from
   poor reception and ghosts.  Also, do this at night, since it's a lot
   easier to see the TV picture.  This alignment procedure is easier if
   you have someone helping you.
   If there is snow on your picture, an amplifier will usually help.
   Only buy the kind that has an amplifier AT THE ANTENNA.  Radio Shack
   sells these.  We have one and it works great!  We also have a Radio
   Shack antenna, which works great.  R.S. sells a large number of models,
   and usually one (and only one :-() of the salespersons (or manager) 
   can tell you which antenna works best in your area.  If you are having
   trouble with ghosts (multiple images on your TV), an amplifier WILL NOT
   HELP.  The only thing you can do is rotate the antenna to minimize the
   ghosts.  It is usually difficult to make them go away completely.


   Andy Goris         goris@fc.hp.com


Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house