From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Homosexuality and Christianity
Date: 16 Apr 92 13:16:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: spssig.adams.703430168
Distribution: na
Organization: SPSS Inc.

tony@tex.nde.swri.edu (Tony Benitez) writes:

>In article <adams.703364630@spssig> adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>>I don't think Scriputre bears this out.  Specifically, Jesus has said that
>>He will separate the people, the goats from the sheep.  The sheep will be
>>saved.  Additionally, in the verses I quoted, He says some who proclaim Him
>>Lord and prophesy in His name will be turned away and disowned.  In the
>>first, He also states that the kingdom is to come, and will be inherited at
>>the second coming...
>>
>>These verses are : Matthew 7:21-23 and 25:31-46.

>Matt 7:21-23 is talking about false prophets in the Kingdom. You may ref othe
>places in the scriptures where False prophets occur. 2 Corinth 11:26 Paul
>speaks of them as False Brethren. etc.
This is reading quite a bit into the Scripture that I don't think is there.
Yes, there will be false teachers in the Church, and even an Anti-Christ
who will cause many believers to fall away.  But I still stand by the claim
that the kingdom is not here and now.  Jesus will return to establish his
kingdom.
 
>Matthew 25:31 is definitly talking about the final judgement. sheep and goats.
>Sheep are sheep, Goats are goats.
But there is no definition of what a sheep is, and what a goat is.  There
are no requirements or characteristics assigned.

>If God has an elect family (I challenge you to prove that he does not) then
also >there must be the non-elect. ELECT=SHEEP, NON-ELECT=GOATS.
>There goes the old "God loves everybody" theme out the window.
I disagree.  Firstly, if you claim that he has an elect family (other than
the Hebrews who were the original 'chosen people') I want to see Scriptural
backing for this.  You can't simply make a statement and as me to prove
that it's not true.  Please provide the references.

I still stand by the claim that God loves everyone and wants to save
everyone.  I draw this from Jeuss' teaching on love for enemy.  For even
the sinners love their family and friends...

>Therein is why all manner of men (homosexuals, deviants, fornicators,
>idolitors) cannot enter the Kingdom. (these are excluded scripturally),
>but will be eternally saved by Gods Mercy.
Firstly, Paul wrote those words, and in Greek, I understand that at best,
homosexuals is a translation of a combination of two Greek words, one
meaning 'soft', the other probably being male prostitute.

Secondly, you just contradicted yourself.  If they are excluded
Scripturally, how are they saved by God's eternal mercy?  One way or the
other.  If they are saved, they are saved.  And hence, you cannot condemn
them.

>Jesus said that there would be some standing here "who would not taste death"
>until the Kingdom would come.  Are they still alive?  The Kingdom of Heaven
>is HERE NOW.
In John 18:36, Jesus says that His Kingdom is not of this world, and that
if it were, His servents would resuce Him from Pilate.  But to counter your
point, Jesus also says that "He who believes in me will never die."  If we
use the same idea of death, then no believer has ever died, right?

 -Steve
--
 The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
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     adams@spss.com                           Phone: (312) 329-3522
     Steve Adams                              Fax:   (312) 329-3558