HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: david mardiste <dam@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Ethnic violence in ESTONIA Against Jews
Date: 13 Oct 1992 06:19:27 GMT
Organization: federalism research centre   RSSS ANU
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.79.24
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1

>In article <1992Oct11.012931.9174@morrow.stanford.edu>
sandor@sep.Stanford.EDU 
>(Sandor Talas) writes:
>>In article <Bvt9yr.2IC@apollo.hp.com>, goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex
Goykhman) writes:


>>|> In the past few weeks, Estonian nationalists has desecrated more than
>>|> 80 Jewish graves in the central city of Tartu where assailants also
>>|> firebombed a Jewish cultural center.  The desecrations were the
fourth
>>|> such incident since last November.


>>Well... 


>>I just talked to friend of mine who is from Tartu. She said that 
>>unfortunately some Jewish graves were destroyed in Tartu, but the police
>>could no find the perpetrators. The suspect of a former case was a
Russian
>>man from St. Petresburg.



>    Must be an industrious man, as he managed to desecrate 80 graves.
>    Is this the same guy who kept publishing anti-Semitic articles
>    in the mainstream Estonian press and came up with the idea of
>    celebrating the 50th anniversary of the 20th division of the SS?



Can you you give me some details on these articles in the mainstream
press that 
are anti-Semitic and I will follow them up. 

This is the first time i've heard of the such things been published in
the major papers so send the details on!

Does anyone know for SURE if the  re-union was for the SS Division or for
those who served in the German army? And can they tell us the details.



david mardiste
From: dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM ("", Dmitri Leschiner)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Drinking kumys (Was: Enigmatic double
Date: 11 Oct 92 22:52:47 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

> Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 11:26:34 GMT
> From: thietaniemi@CC.HELSINKI.FI
>
> In article <9210030109.AA24145@feds66.Prime.COM>,
> dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM ("", Dmitri Leschiner) writes:
> >
> > Oh, well, why?? Did you try kumys? You don't like it?
> > It's unusual, I agree; might be for Finns even more,
> > but is it so vomit-causing indeed?
>
> I have never had a possibility to try it. What is it like? It is not
> like sour milk with some vodka in it, I suppose... Is it like
> the Mexican pulque?
>

I've never tried a Mexican pulque... :-) I guess though it doesn't
resemble kumys. Kumys _is in fact very much like sour milk with some
(little) quantity of spirit and also a lot of dissolved gas in it:
the product of sour milk overfermentation. Sorry that I couldn't
describe it better. I recommend a trip to Baskortostan (never been
there myself:) - it must be relatively cheap now for Finns (much
more expensive for Americans:), and there must still be excellent
kumys-producing facilities. I'd really like to visit there myself
pretty much, but I doubt I'll do that soon...

Dmitry
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: Kuwaity Estonia ?
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 12:34:05 GMT

viznyuk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
:   Recently the company of Iran, Estonia, Saudi Arabia
: and similar democratic nations was joined by Kuwait:
: they held their first "democratic" elections in 6 years.
: Now one could understand where did Estonians get an idea
: of barring 40% of their population from elections - they
: borrowed it from Kuwait ! Though the nearby european
: surrounding prevented Estonia from following the Kuwaity
: model in full. Unlike Kuwait, where in elections could
: participate only 14% of population (those could trace
: their ancestry to 1922), Estonians need to trace their
: anscestry only to 1940.
: 
:   [1;5;7m Serega & Co [0m
Serega is againg making his propaganda. This "40 %" consists
for instance all the children under 18 years of age and they can
not vote anywhere. I do not beleieve that even in Russian the
children cannot vote. To compare Kuwait and Saudi-Arabia with
Estonia is more joking I would like to add.
jarmo
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Ethnic violence in ESTONIA??
Date: 16 Oct 92 06:36:25 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <Bw6FKG.65L@apollo.hp.com>, goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com
(Alex Goykhman) writes:

> By officially sanctioning the celebration, the Estonian goverment made an
> important public policy statement:

When you are spreading ill-willed rumours, at least you owe us couple of
explanations:

(1) What do you mean by "officially sanctioning". To which acts does it refer?

(2) To which Estonian government are you referring to: I help you:

    (a) the centrist Savisaar government?
    (b) the leftist Va"hi government?
    (c) the right wing Laar goverment?

If you answer these questions, perhaps I might believe that you know what
you are talking. Your last posting did not have much truth in it,
unfortunately.

You are accusing "the Estonian government" of fascist policies. You
must define the alleged political deeds and define which governement 
you are referring to.

sincerely
Tapani Hietaniemi, University of Helsinki
From: Christic Institute <christic@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Date: 07 Oct 92 06:48 PDT
Subject: GP:RAINBOW WARRIOR IN RUSSIA
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1483700094:000:2579
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!christic    Oct  7 06:48:00 1992


From: Christic Institute <christic>
Subject: GP:RAINBOW WARRIOR IN RUSSIA

/* Written  2:53 am  Oct  7, 1992 by web:greenbase in cdp:gp.press */
/* ---------- "Rainbow Warrior in Vladivostok" ---------- */
GREENPEACE PRESS RELEASE

RUSSIAN FAR EAST WELCOMES RAINBOW WARRIOR INTO VLADIVOSTOK  

VLADIVOSTOK, Russia October 5, 1992 (GP) The Rainbow Warrior,
flagship of the international environmental group Greenpeace
arrived today into the Russian Far Eastern port of Vladivostok.
The ship is embarking on a four week campaign in the region
starting with a 10 day visit to Vladivostok. The ship will then
head north and make port calls to Nahodke and Vanino.  

The Rainbow Warrior will be part of a campaign to highlight 
radioactive contamination,  decommissioning of nuclear
submarines, and the problems associated with the disposal of
nuclear waste. Vladivostok is home to the Russian Pacific Fleet.

"The Pacific Fleet has left a deadly legacy of major nuclear
accidents, contamination and coverups in its wake"  said Faith
Doherty Greenpeace campaigner onboard the Rainbow Warrior.

During the last three years Greenpeace has attempted to visit the
Russian Far East with two of their vessels. Despite invitations
from local environmental groups and the support from regional
deputies, the military and some authorities were not prepared to
allow Greenpeace entry nor have access to information.

The entrance of the Rainbow Warrior into Vladivostok today, is
the result of the citizen to citizen diplomacy that has
challenged the secrecy surrounding the nuclear navies reluctance
to tell the truth. 

"We hope that this visit will encourage an exchange of
information between the Navy and Greenpeace in order to confirm
the seriousness of the situation," Doherty stated.

The Rainbow Warrior will also be addressing the pillage of 
natural resources occurring in the region. The forests of Siberia
and the fish population are under severe threat from the recently
established joint ventures between Russia and foreign companies
based overseas. 

Onboard the Rainbow Warrior is an international crew from the
following countries: Australia, New Zealand, United Kingdom
Switzerland, Canada, United States, and Germany.  They will be
joined by Russian nationals upon arrival into Vladivostok.  
For more information please contact:

Faith Doherty        SV Rainbow Warrior  +872 1300312 Phone       
                                  +872 1300313 Fax

Eleonor O'Hanlon     Greenpeace Russia   +7 095 2519073 Phone     
                                    +7 095 2519088 Fax
From: verbit@brauer.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Furstenberg and other things (Was: Human
Date: 8 Oct 92 01:20:35 GMT
Organization: Sozialistische Patienten Kollektiv

In article <1aue65INNlm5@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au (INFIDEL) writes:

>Estonia and Latvia are not the only newly independent nations with a
>black record. Is it by coincidence that those countries clammerring most
>loudly for independence and national assertion are also those with the
>blackest records ?  The Ukraine , for instance.

Croatian President gen. Tudjman in 1987
wrote a book on the subject of genocide
where he stated that "genocide is a necessary measure of
self-defense for any nation". The source is not clear,
since it was written by somebody at soc.culture.yugoslavia a while
ago, but nobody here defied this info. The following is 
what I fished off soc.culture.yugo just this minute:
(reposted without permisson):

---------------REPOST-----------------

From: wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Edward Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Demented Damir
Date: 2 Oct 92 20:40:45 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.

Damir Matanic writes:


>You said that your father did the killing in Jasenovac.  So, he was 


      Wait, Croats claim that there were no atrocities committed
      against Serbs and Jews in Independent-Puppet Croatia.
      Is your conscience bothering you, Damire?


>Croatian huh?      An Ustasa ?!?!?!?!?!?
>  You have Croatian blood flowing in your veins?
>You're nothing but a damn Yugo-Cetnik S.O.B. ! 


      Have you seen a psychiatrist lately, Damir?
      I am Russian, not Croat, remember???
      Did you have foam at the mouth and bloodshot
      eyes when you wrote this nonsense?


>The Ustasa fought to defend the Croatian and Muslim populations in both 
>Croatia and Bosna-Hercegovina.  There was nothing "fascistic" about them.
>Let me guess, you would probably say that today's Croatian leadership is 
>also fascist, eventhough the H.D.Z. is made up of former communists.
>Independent Croatia=fascist state, huh?



      That's right.  Independent Croatia is indeed headed
      by a fascist government.


>If you are part Croat, the you're a trator. Go back to the Yugo newsgroup 
>where you belong.
>Rot in hell cetnitcko stoko !



      It would appear that the credibility of net.Croats
      converges to zero.


-- Eduard
Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:8449 soc.culture.jewish:17670
From: goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman)
Subject: Re: Ethnic violence in ESTONIA??
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 21:31:53 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Oct16.083625.1@cc.helsinki.fi> thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi writes:
>In article <Bw6FKG.65L@apollo.hp.com>, goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com
>(Alex Goykhman) writes:
>
>> By officially sanctioning the celebration, the Estonian goverment made an
>> important public policy statement:
>
>When you are spreading ill-willed rumours, at least you owe us couple of
>explanations:
>
    Let me re-post an excerpt from the newspaper article in question
    (the one that you keep deleting:)

    "The attacks and threats against the Jewish community appear to have
    intensified after Jewish leaders in Tartu protested OFFICIALLY
    SANCTIONED plans to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the Estonian
    Legion - a group of Estonians who fought against the Soviets during
    WWII on the side of the Nazis.

    The Estonian Legion became the 20th Division of the SS, whose special
    Einzatzgruppen commando units were responsible for the roundup and
    execution of hundreds of thousands of Jews in the Baltics and former
    Soviet Union.  After the war, some legionnaires fought a guerilla
    war against the Soviets before they were crushed."

>(1) What do you mean by "officially sanctioning". To which acts does it refer?

    I do not know what specific actions of the Estonian goverment the 
    article was referring to.  If you really want to know, why don't you 
    give your friends in Tartu a call?
>
>(2) To which Estonian government are you referring to: I help you:
>
>    (a) the centrist Savisaar government?
>    (b) the leftist Va"hi government?
>    (c) the right wing Laar goverment?

    To me, all three are "the Estonian goverment".

    BTW, have you heard of any "true" Estonians protesting the plans to 
    celebrate the 50th anniversary of 20th Division of the SS?

    Do you know of any other country that, in modern times, would 
    celebrate an SS anniversary?





-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: all opinions are mine.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.jewish
From: goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman)
Subject: Re: Ethnic violence in ESTONIA Against Jews
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 19:02:40 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Oct15.093022.8989@cs.hut.fi> f33012l@puukko.hut.fi (Janne Kivel{) writes:
>
>If you think it's possible to blame entire Estonian nation because there
>was an Estonian Waffen-SS Legion, you might as well blame all Russians
>and Ukrainians for Vlasov's Army.

    "The attacks and threats against the Jewish community appear to have
    intensified after Jewish leaders in Tartu protested OFFICIALLY
    SANCTIONED plans to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the Estonian
    Legion - a group of Estonians who fought against the Soviets during
    WWII on the side of the Nazis.

By officially sanctioning the celebration, the Estonian goverment made an 
important public policy statement:

    The Estonian Legion became the 20th Division of the SS, whose special
    Einzatzgruppen commando units were responsible for the roundup and
    execution of hundreds of thousands of Jews in the Baltics and former
    Soviet Union.  After the war, some legionnaires fought a guerilla
    war against the Soviets before they were crushed."





-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: all opinions are mine.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dam <dam@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: test please ignore
Date: 13 Oct 1992 01:19:56 GMT
Organization: federalism research centre   RSSS ANU
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.79.24
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1

having trouble posting to this group 
please ignore
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.jewish
From: bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy)
Subject: Re: Ethnic violence in ESTONIA Against Jews
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 14:36:22 GMT
Organization: Be. I am.

In article <1992Oct15.093022.8989@cs.hut.fi> f33012l@puukko.hut.fi (Janne Kivel{) writes:
>If you think it's possible to blame entire Estonian nation because there
>was an Estonian Waffen-SS Legion, you might as well blame all Russians
>and Ukrainians for Vlasov's Army.

I don't think it's possible to blame entire nations.
But I think that Vlasov's army and Estonian SS shouldn't be compared.

  1. Estonians were volunters in SS. They have choice between entring SS
or living as everybody else.
  2. Russians who became members of Vlasov army had choice between that
or coming to concentration camp (and concentration camp for Russians
was much worse that for Europeans - Stalin refused to sign POW convention(?))
or suicide (Soviet shouldn't be prisoner of war). Not to mention 
what should happen with Russian POWs after the war in Stalin's state.
  3. Deeds of SS (and of Estonian SS Division) are well-known. Concentration 
camps, massacred Jews, burned villages, etc.
  4. Vlasov's army was army ("vermacht" ?), not SS. What's more,
it take part in the WWII only once - when they saved Prague from Nazis -
May  6, 1945.

So, pls, read something about Vlasov's army at first 
(Vladimov "General and his army") before trying to explain that 
everybody was/is equally dirty. 

.
>
>Russian people cannot be blamed for occupation and annexation of Baltic
>states in 1940. 
Agreed.

>In the same way, 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>why should Baltic nations be accused for 
>collaborating with the Nazis or being 'anti-semitic'. 

Ways are different. Estonians were the best students.
(paraphrasing the line from Eugene Schwartz fairy tale "Dragon")

>Same people
>who claim that Estonians are Nazis and that Baltic governments conspired
>with illegal Bolshevik governments, are boldly denying all responsibility
>that Russian people have of communist terror. 

Oversimplification.

>Janne Kivela"
>      "N{m{kin pusakat vain viisysiysi. Ja kaikista valtakunnan..."
>                     ----- Simo vaatehuoneelta
	-igor 
	"V lesu stoyala elochka. A v kieve dyad'ka..."
			----- Narodnaya mudrost'

Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:8432 soc.culture.jewish:17605
From: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Subject: Military coup in Russia ?
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 13:26:42 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.14a by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Yesterday I listened to Prof. Sachs on CNN who is an American that
helped Mr. Gaidar to devise the economic reforms in Russia.
Dr. Sachs stated that economic situation in Russia has been going
downhill very steeply for the last 3 months mainly because the
reform plan was abandoned in favor of financing military-industrial
complex by sharply increasing money supply (printing more money
to pay for its production). The inflation is about 30% a MONTH,
and should increase even higher. Dr. Sachs described current
political situation as highly unstable because of economic one
and said that a putsch is possible within a few weeks to a few months.
Even if putsch does not happen, in December the newly reconvened parliament
will probably give reformists and democrats an ax. In April
when they met last, they gave a green light to reformers on the
premise of huge foreign aid. There have been no aid at all - mostly
due to economic turmoil in G7 countries.

Oleg V
From: wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Edward Wiener)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Kuwaiti Estonia ?
Date: 8 Oct 92 03:15:11 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.

In article <718489034@locust.cs.duke.edu> wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Edward Wiener) writes:
>>      You're in over your head, esteemed Jarmo.  Since ethnic
>>      Estonian children also are not allowed to vote and unless
>>      the Estonian birth rate is much, much lower than that
>>      of Russian-speakers (which is not the case), then this
>>      figure of 40% not having been allowed to vote is fairly
>>      accurate.


Ken Arromdee responds:


>Recheck your math.  If 40% of the whole population cannot vote, and this 40%
>includes children, it means that the 40% number is misleadingly high.  If
>the children are equally distributed among ethnic groups, that 40% number
>will _still_ go down after you leave out the children




      I think YOU should recheck your math, Ken.

-- Eduard
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: rlt@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (r l taylor)
Subject: Re: position of pres. candidates
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 12:59:52 GMT

In article <sday.718493513@kirin> sday@bbn.com (Sherry Day) writes:

>I would appreciate any replies. Is it me, am I the only one who is 
>confused by what the candidates are saying.  I hear one thing then

There have been a few good postings about this lately, so I won't
waste space repeating them.  Drop me email if you didn't see them.

>the opposite a few days later.  I hope I am not the only one that
>feels like a mushroom.

Don't worry, you're not.  They've been feeding us a load of sh*t for
so long, we're all getting fungified. :-(

>I firmly believe in the right to bear arms (or is it arm bears?). ;)
>I am getting tired of these anti-gun people telling me only criminals
>want guns and that I am a criminal for wanting a gun/owning a gun
>/believing I should be able to get a gun without any hassles.  

I hate to say this, but get used to it.  At best, we're facing a long
uphill fight.  At worst, well, you can imagine what it would be like
if the get their way.

>Are there any other females out there who own or want to own guns
>and would like to keep them?

Lots!  I'm one.  Drop me a line if you want to chat sometime.

---<--@ ---<--@ ---<--@ ---<--@ ---<--@ ---<--@ ---<--@            *
                                                    _ _ /|      *  *  *
                                Ack Pffft Thwerrp!  \'o.O'       * * *
                                                    =(___)=  * * * O * * *
Roberta Taylor   AA2KZ        | rlt@gummo.att.com      U         * * *
AT&T Bell Labs, Whippany, NJ  |                                 *  *  *
                              | Member, Unorganized Militia of     *
 NRA/CCRKBA/SAF - Life Member |    The People's Republic of        |
   GOA - Annual Member        |          New Jersey              \ |
                                                                  \| /
Would the last American to leave New Jersey please bring the flag? |/
                                                                   |/ 
@----->}  @----->}  @----->}  @----->}  @----->}  @----->}   ______|______


From: kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 16:06:40 GMT
Subject: Oops
Organization: HP Western Response Center
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns

Oops! My apologies for posting my previous "Please Help" survey to this
group. It was an honest mistake and won't happen again.

Kingsley
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns