From: RCIRIT%DENVER@VAXF.Colorado.EDU (REMZI CIRIT)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Unity in Thought, language or DOMINATION
Date: 28 Dec 1992 12:39:47 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


ne10@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Nermin  Eren) WROTE:
>+<> Subject: Re: Unity in Thought, language or DOMINATION 
>+<>  From: ne10@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Nermin  Eren),
>+<>  Columbia University Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 10:54:56 GMT
>+<>  
>+<>  In article <01GSRJIHFKF6006MJF@VAXF.COLORADO.EDU>
>+<>  RCIRIT%DENVER@VAXF.Colorado.ED U (REMZI CIRIT) writes:
>+<>  #######################################################################
>+<>  
>+<>  Nermin, The idea you qouted above is a great idea. However, I
>+<>  have some questions for you; How are we going to do it. ? What
>+<>  dou you think about cultural diversity?. Since you are living
>+<>  in the USA, is there any way to apply this theory to the USA ?
>+<>  Since we are not robots, can we really have unity in thought ?
>+<>  
>+<>  If the people do not want to accept the unity in thought, in
>+<>  work, How are we going to force them ? In trems of the human
>+<>  rights. is it right to force them FOR THE SAKE OF THE UNITY ?
>+<>  
>+<>  Which one is important humanity or unity in language, in
>+<>  thought ?
>+<>  
>+<>  Remzi Cirit
>+<>  
>   Mr.Cirit, Are you familiar with Ismail Gaspirali and his
>   ideas? If not, it is worth to get acquainted with his thoughts
>   and ideas. Now, you raised some questions for me and expect
>   some answers. Usually it is easy and simple to raise some
>   questions, but answers are not.

You are right, it is easy to raise some questions, but answers are not. However
I did not intend to get answer from certain people. I tryed to raise some
quetions about the ideas that you qouted. 
   
>   Gaspirali's countersign meant for the Turkic speaking muslims.
>   He wanted a middle-Turkic language with which all Turkic
>   speaking people would perfectly be able to understand each
>   other. He wanted reform in islamic  education system in order to
>  improve living conditions of muslims. Commitment to achieve
>  this goal, that is improving living conditions of muslims, is
>   unity in language, in thought, in work. 

I understood what are trying to say, but what I don't get is that; How can
we reach unity in thought.? It is a good idea for Turkish speaking people
to understand each other.  it is possible to reach unity in language for 
Turkish speaking people.

What I am strongly oppose  is the idea of unity in thought ? isn't that 
diversity in thought is the main source of democracy ? Can we talk about
democracy if there is  unity in thought ?

Politicial parties are usually (not always)representative of people sharing
 unity in thought ? The unity in thought is an idea of diktatorship not the 
 idea of  democracy. 
 
>That was the
>   motivation of Ismail Gaspirali and it did not mean political
>   unity. However, it seems to me that your questions imply
>   political unity. Am I right? If so, there is no need to get
>   into a discussion, since I think political unity cannot be
>   achieved without force, to which I am opposed.

My question meant political unity,  because the way gaspirali formulated
his ideas leads to political unity and opens roads to political unity.
I don't wanna generate a bi-party discussion. I just expressed my concern
about his ideas.

> On the other
>   hand, discussion on cultural matters can bear some fruits. My
>   strict defination of culture is thinking and ideas of people.
>   Why do we think? Why do we have some ideas? Why do we bother
>   reading and posting some articles? Is it just for fun?

Yes it is fun. I also try to learn in a fun way. The important question for
me is not why we think. It is HOW WE THINK. and  what determines the way we
think. Why  we have some  ideas is a philisophicial question. I don't want to
get in that. Culture can be defined in a more comprehensive way, however,
the defination is not important for me?. I would rather prefer to talk about
the  how the culture determines the way people think and how the people ways
of thinkig determines culture.

>   
>  ------- The rose was deleted-----------
> >   Nermin     ne10@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu
>  -- Dilde, fikirde, iste birlik. Unity in language, in thought,
>   in work. Ismail Gaspirali (1851-1914)

  
I think what I meant by the rose was expressed by Suleyman Kondakci. It
in turkish "Gulu seven dikenine katlanir" I mean if you express an idea
you should be ready for challlenge from other people. 

Remzi Cirit

==========================================================================
                                                 Remzi Cirit
                    ^    ^
                      /\   //\             It's not denial!
        l\___/\      /  \ // .\             I'm just very selective about
        /O  O .\__  /    //  | \ \                   the reality I accept
       /  U  /  \/_/    //   |  \  \
       @___@'    \/_   //    |   \   \
          |       \/_ //     |    \    \
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            `.   {            }  \   \   \   /   \/      \/ \
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          ////-._ _ _ _ _ _ _}^ - - - - ~                     ~--,////.-~
                                                                 /.-~

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Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish