HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cstacy@ai.mit.edu (Christopher C. Stacy)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: stupid pilot tricks and "Small crash" type threads
Date: 23 Aug 92 22:28:15 GMT
Organization: random

Some good fraction of the time, when I ask an acquaintance from one
social circle or another (computers, square dancing, etc.) if they would
like to come flying, I get to hear the passenger's account of how the
last time someone made them this friendly offer, they wound up had a
unique experience.  Sometimes they think the experience was was fun,
and sometimes they think it was terrifying, and sometimes they are
just not sure and they want me to tell them what to think about it.

These stories are almost always about low-time VFR pilots like myself.
I have heard lots of stories where the pilot was one or more of:
totally lost, sometimes at night, in hard IMC, buzzing ("the people on
the ground by that monument [in a noise-sensitive tourist beach area]
were so scared, it was pretty funny!"), losing control of the airplane
on the ground or in the air, running low on fuel, flying into forecast
thunderstorms with/without a briefing ... the amazing litany goes on.
Lots of the stories begin, "Hey, I was wondering, um, is it normal for...".
So, I am no longer surprised by anything I hear.

The kinds of errors (No/Gos, situational/skill level judgements, 
emergency reactions, creeping minor screw-ups) that sane people like
you and me ("and I'm not so sure about you!") are more likely to make
are what actually concern me.  I'm much more interested in the
insidious "I learned about almost killing us all from that" stories
that we hear.  Something I can relate to, to help me see how -- damn,
it really *could* happen to me!

But an occasional good shocker is entertaining too, so that we
can all sit back and say, "God, I hope they suspend/imprison/torture
that loser".  (But let's not bother with those messages this time, OK?)

I think one of the best weight-and-balance stories I ever heard was
brought to mind by the recent "Small Crash / Cherokee" thread from Georgia.
A pilot whose acquaintance I had made took a Cessna 152 (not a 172) out
of BED, put himself (standard size) and a passenger (standard weight, tall)
in the front, put the other passenger (a full adult) in the cargo area
"sqwunched up on the floor" and embarked on a cross-country flight.
The passengers all thought this was normal, it not being much
different than what someone might do in an automobile, although it was
decidedly less comfortable for the rear passenger.  There was no crash
on either leg of the trip.  However, the front passenger, who was
telling me the story, won't go flying anymore because she was scared
about how wildly the plane acted (the pilot was cursing and generally
having a hard time lining up) when the pilot tried to land it.

They're out there.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Subject: Re: Finding toxic waste (Re: Flying for the Environment)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 08:15:30 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
Keywords: ponds, plumes, piles, and stains

ericth@i88.isc.com (Eric Thiele) writes:

>>Kinda begs the question of whether it is any of your business or not
>>too, now doesn't it?
>	You're pouring poison into my water supply, and just 'cuz you're doing
>	it on your precious private property, I don't have a right to look at
>	what you're up to and call the cops to stop you?  Get real.

Ah yes, the old "ends justify the means" argument.  That works until
you're on the receiving end.

>	If you're gonna stand on your rights, you don't own the air.  If you're
>	up to no good, and you're stupid enough not to hide it from planes,
>	that's your problem.  If someone thinks you're up to no good and you 
>	aren't, you just paid the price for living in a society with
>	other people.  The police bother you once, find out what the real
>	story is, and leave you alone.  That's how it works, whether you like
>	it or not.

So I take it that if someone calls the police on you and you are 
inconvenienced, caused to spend money or perhaps killed despite being 
innocent, that is OK because your idea of a benefit to society has been 
satisfied?  If so, you are a very frightening individual indeed.
Frightening in your ignorance and in your embracing of totalitarian
methods.

>>Am I the only one frightened by this kind of meddling?
>	You call it meddling.  I call it being vigilant.  

Work on your spelling.  The term is vigilante.


>>There is a discussion going on over in talk.politics.guns
>>about an innocent woman who was murdered while trying to shelter her 
>>babies by a machine-gun wielding SWAT member conducting a no-knock raid 
>	What in blazes does this have to do with Margaret, the environment, or
>	rec.aviation?  If you've got a problem with her, why not use email to
>	her, and save the rest of the net from your political views.

let me type real slow for you so you can read and understand.  In the 
mentioned case, a scumbag snitched on an innocent man on account of 
a grudge (grudge, idealism, ignorance, does not matter.)  The SWAT
stormtroupers staged a gestapo raid on their house and gunned down
the fellow's wife as she tried to shield her kids against the invaiders.
If you can't see the consequences of involving the authorities from
this example, you are hopeless.

As far as "saving the net from my political views", I'll post my views 
here just as well as the twinket posts hers.  If you're so concerned
with the traffic (and this applies to everyone else in this thread),
why did you go to the trouble of repointing the thread back here?
I pointed it away as a crude filter.

John
-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine (TM) |
Marietta, Ga                         |Interested in high tech and computers? 
jgd@dixie.com                        |Write me about PE Magazine
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.
From: serafin@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Mike Serafin)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Lear autopilot / C310 maintenance
Date: 4 Sep 92 15:32:22 GMT
Organization: TI Semiconductor Process and Design Center

Does anyone in netland have any experience with the Lear autopilots?  I am
looking for a shop that can overhaul the Lear AP in my 310.  I would prefer
something located in or around Texas, but any help would be appreciated.  

I have just recently moved to Dallas from Austin and am need of a good mechanic
with 310 experience.  Anybody know of any in Dallas?  

Thanks,
Mike Serafin

serafin@epcot.spdc.ti.com
PP-I-ASMEL C310I N48WM
From: jpp@StarConn.com (John Pettitt)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: STOLEN - PLEASE READ !!!!
Summary: Radios stolen from Palo Alto
Keywords: stolen avionics
Date: 25 Aug 92 23:34:44 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Starnet-Public Access UNIX--Los Altos, CA  415-949-3133


 
 On Saturday, August 2, five West Valley Flying Club aircraft had radios
 stolen at Palo Alto airport.

 Here is a list of these radios including model and serial numbers.
 Please keep an open eye out for any one trying to sell these radios.
  
  Any information you may have would be greatly appreciated.
  Please contact Gary Hendrickson at (415) 493 8316.
   
   Model   Serial
   KX175B  42426
   KX175B  No serial

   KX175B  No serial
   KX170B  54858

   KX155   52808
   KX155   52614
   KX155   15033
   KX155   9703
   KX155   5924

   KN64    13412
   KN64    12351
   KN64    23964
   KN64    21676

   KR86    29066
   KR86    20411
   KR86    No serial
    
The thief appears to have knon the club lock box code as there was no
sign of forced entry.  I am out 2 KX155 and a KN64 :-(  The insurance
will pay most of it (I'm still trying to find out who pays the
deductable).

Some people  :-(
-- 
John Pettitt					jpp@starconn.com
Archer N81034					apple!starnet!jpp
Me, say that, never: It's a forged posting!	Fax:   +1 415 967 8682
						Voice: +1 415 967 UNIX
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: ginsberg@t.Stanford.EDU (Matthew L. Ginsberg)
Subject: Re: Two planes collide over Santa Paula Airport
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 01:28:42 GMT


The discussion here has implied that the pilots are somehow blameless
if they were using different (but published) unicom frequencies.  *less*
blame, but surely not blameless -- there is often lots of NORAD traffic
at uncontrolled fields, and you should generally be on the lookout
for it.

There is even NORAD traffic at *controlled* fields.  Sometimes a plane
will lose its radio and you may see him before the tower does.  My first
aerobatic lessons were in a plane where the radio didn't work; when we
wanted to fly, we would just tell the tower (in person) we were going,
and how long we expected to be.  They said, "Fine.  Clear to land," and
off we went.  The same airport was *also* a glider field.  I certainly
learned to look for traffic!  (The only time this relaxed procedure
led to trouble was when someone went off, did some acro, and came back
and landed -- without realizing that a wind shift had reversed the
direction of the active runway.  He asked his instructor what he thought
of the landing, and the instructor coolly replied that he thought it
was fine, except everyone else was heading the other way!  The tower
was not nearly so sanguine.)

The point, of course, is simply that the fundamental responsibility
for collision avoidance in VFR flight is with the PIC.

					Matt Ginsberg

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: mparker@adobe.com (Mike Parker)
Subject: Re: Comparing Tach and Hobbs rates?
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 21:11:06 GMT


>In article <1992Aug28.162042.18025@eecs.nwu.edu> phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre) writes:
>>For that matter, exactly what IS tach time?  I mean, I know basically
>>what it is, but....  Well, let me ask it a different way.  Fill in the
>>blank:  1 hour of tach time is equivalent to one hour of engine operation
>>at ____% power.  Does it vary depending on the engine?
>
An empirical answer...

During a time when I kept track, N11905 ran up 88 tach hours in 105 Hobbs hours.
N11905 is an AG5B on leaseback that gets used mostly for IFR training, secondly
for trips (9 hours of the above Hobbs is Chris Pettus' trip to Sandy Eggo from
Palo Alto), third for local sightseeing, and very little pattern practice.  Your
mileage may vary.

mike


Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong)
Subject: Re: Two planes collide over Santa Paula Airport
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 92 22:50:08 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

From article <1992Sep1.204147.4619@news.arc.nasa.gov>, by doshay@ursa.arc.nasa.gov (David Doshay):
> In article <6816@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM>, drchambe@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Dennis Chamberlin) writes:
> |> In article <1992Sep1.151634.16989@news.acns.nwu.edu> drmax@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Marianna Max) writes:
> |> >
> |> >
> |> >The news report stressed that the
> |> >problem was the uncoordinated airport in a residential neighborhood.
> |> 
> |> Sounds like another journalists' freshly minted contribution to our vocabulary.
> 
> Yup, ya really gots to look out for them uncoordinated airports, 'specially
> close to the ground in a residential neighborhood. Once they slow to land the 
> whole damn airport will likely stall and spin right in.

Darn!  I wonder if you need a license from FAA to fly one of 'em
"uncoordinated airports"?  Do they need IFR ratings in bad weathers?



Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: mperlman@nyx.cs.du.edu (Marshal "Airborne" Perlman)
Subject: COOL!
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 92 01:49:21 GMT

Passed my Phase 3 oral and written..I'm ready to take
my FAA Exam on Thursday...anything I shoudl know that the FAA
pulls out of their sleeves?
--
No part of Marshal may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system,
translated, transcribed, or transmitted, in any form, or by any means manual,
electric, electronic, electromagnetic, mechanical, chemical, optical, or
otherwise, without prior explicit written permission from CPEX development.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: fskevin@mars.lerc.nasa.gov (Kevin R. Kirtley (SVER))
Subject: Re: There I was - mag check/Stupid Pilot Tricks
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 31 Aug 1992 07:37 EDT  

In article <Aug.30.13.03.22.1992.22373@pilot.njin.net>, ron@pilot.njin.net 
(Ron Natalie) writes...
>Here's a number of small things that have happened to me, that
>probably have happened to many people (see how many of these
>you have done):

    List of "Oops" deleted

My greatest "not too serious" faux pas was pulling the mixture rather than
the carb heat while landing at a crowded fly-in. It sure got people's
attention.

Next on the list: In short wing Pipers the right tank should be used only
for level flight below 1/3 full due to peculiar plumbing. So while flying
with a friend over his new house with his family and friends watching from
the ground, I proceed with a steep turn on the right tank and the engine
quits for a one second eternity. I switched the tanks and the engine quickly
came to life. When I landed, I must have read my placard ten times over,
"RIGHT TANK LEVEL FLIGHT ONLY WITH LESS THAN 1/3 FULL"

Gee Ron, you bring out the best in people.

Kevin R. Kirtley
Short Wing Piper Lover

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: ggr@koonda.acci.com.au (Greg Rose)
Subject: Re: Principle of ILS/LOC (was Re: Principle of VOR)
Organization: Australian Computing and Communications Institute
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 03:35:51 GMT

>In <EGDORF.92Aug27135630@zaphod.lanl.gov> egdorf@zaphod.lanl.gov (Skip Egdorf) writes:
>>An instructor stated in a conversation last night "ILS channels
>>are always on odd tenths (108.1, 108.3, ...) while VORs are on
>>even (108.2, 108.4) so that the unit can channel a different receiver
>>for the ILS and the VOR."

He's about half right. ILS's need more bandwidth than VORs,
since there are a lot more signals and modulation etc going on. So ILS
frequencies are 200kHz apart, and always on odd numbers as above.
VORs don't need as much separation, so they can be just 100kHz apart,
and use all of the decimals. (VOR's could probably be even closer
together than that, but I don't think that is likely to be used.)

The reciever does have different circuitry for the different
signals, but they are distinguished by the frequency range. ILS's are
in the range 108.1 .. 111.9 (19 possible),
while VORS are in the range 112.1 ..  117.9 (59 of them).
--
Greg Rose                 Australian Computing and Communications Institute
ggr@acci.com.au                                              +61 3 282 2532
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: gaynier@elec.uq.oz.au (Ron Gaynier)
Subject: Re: umwaufi report
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 03:06:29 GMT

In <1992Sep1.170223.14455@hemlock.cray.com> jkr@cray.com (John Renwick) writes:

"|"In article <1992Sep1.130052.4439@walter.cray.com> osh@cray.com (O'Shaughnessy John) writes:
"|">Now, what other midwest areas would make for a good Fly-In?  Perhap something
"|">near Wisconsin Dells?  Something along the Mississippi for the fall colors?
"|">

"|"How about the obvious:  Oshkosh, at a time when Wittman Field isn't
"|"full of a quarter-million people?  For a different twist, we could
"|"volunteer a work party for week-end.  Lots of EAA chapters do it
"|"every spring.  The EAA treats volunteers very hospitably.  It would
"|"be good fun.

"|"Another suggestion:  Minneapolis/Saint Paul area, for the Planes of Fame
"|"Museum at Flying Cloud Airport, or maybe the CAF folks could be coaxed 
"|"into letting us see their projects at Fleming Field.
"|"-- 

How about Macinac Island in the Straits of Macinac (connects Lake Michigan to
lake Huron)? I understand there is an airport there. You won't find an airport
courtesy car there however, the island is an auto free zone. Its very historic,
very pretty, and only a few miles from the other great American suspension bridge 
connecting the upper and lower pennisulas of Michigan. Don't expect me to organize 
it though, I'm afraid the flight there would be alittle too far for anything that I fly.

Ron Gaynier
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: chris@a.cs.okstate.edu (Chris Schuermann)
Subject: Re: Be nice to your engine
Organization: Oklahoma State University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 17:47:12 GMT

From article <1992Aug31.131357.5000@nlm.nih.gov>, by masys@nlm.nih.gov (Dr. Daniel R. Masys):
> In article <67194@hydra.gatech.EDU> randy@khan.gatech.edu (Randal T. Abler) writes:
>>
>>I'd prefer to rent a plane by "Tach" hours.  If you reduce the RPM for
>>quiter flight (and to be nicer to the engine) then your cost goes down.
> 
> It may not be nicer to the engine to run at low power levels.  When I
> picked up a factory reman Lycoming at Carter Aviation in Tennessee, I
> asked the flambouyant Bobby Carter what I should do to be sure to make
> it to TBO.  "Son", he said, "don't baby it.  Just run it hard and often."
> Since Bobby has heard the stories that went along with several tens of
> thousands of engine exchanges, I think he's likely to be right.
> 
> Dan Masys
> masys@nlm.nih.gov

Mr Carter is correct...to a point...
During breakin of a new engine, it is advised to run the engine at higher
power settings and not 'baby' it.  This assures proper seating of the rings
to the cylinders.  The flip side is: engines wear.  The more times the piston
goes up and down, the more wear is induced.  Other components are also
affected. Example: my Aero Commander has GO435 Lycomings.  For those not
familiar, these engines drive the prop through a planetary gearbox.  Takeoff
RPM is 3400 !  Now this is a good engine if cared for, and will make its
1400hour TBO, but if run hard (higher RPM, and rapid throttle changes) you'll
be lucky to see 500 hours TBO.  The throttle changes can probably make the
greatest difference on wear.  The manual recomends a full 30 seconds from
idle to full power.  How many people do you know who advance a throttle
THAT slowly???  
Take care of that motor, and it'll take care of you.

Chris
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: steve@netcom.com (Stephen Williams)
Subject: Re: TAS while landing (was: Stupid Pilot Trick Awards)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 04:46:41 GMT
Organization: Organizations Anonymous
Reply-To: steve@icarus.net.netcom.com

>In article <1992Aug21.173103.18615@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com>, mark@hpcvxmsr.cv.hp.com
>(Mark Rowe) writes:
>>[density altitude affects on ground speed stuff deleted]
>>[...]      So why is does there appear to be such difficulty in
>>coping with changes in groundspeed due to the altitude.  As far as
>>groundspeed goes, the two circumstances seem very similar.
>

and ...

In article <2510479@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> bills@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Bill Standerfer) writes:
>I think it is because pilots think about wind, but don't really think about the
>ground speed change induced by density altitude.  Thus, they are surprised.
>
>Bill Standerfer


Not to mention, density altitude affects are with you all the way around
the compass rose. This causes the turns to widen, whereas winds distort
your perfect circle into ellipses. Downwind to base, wind and density
altitude combine to really spread it out, but base to final can look
kinda wrong too.

Also, throttle positions are weird because they need
to be open more.

Which brings me to my minor "there I was..."

I can tell you from experience that you must trust the numbers on
your engine guages. I caught myself flying a C-310 into South Lake
Tahoe (beautiful!) "feeling" the throttles, and found myself low and
slow, and full throttle was not a lot of help. Bad form. Fortunately
I was light (myself and fuel), a precaution I took for this practice
flight.

Be safe, fly smart! (Besides, looking back and knowing "why" makes
it worth the adventure.)

Steve Williams
steve@icarus.net.netcom.com

P.S. I did get a mountain check out, but in a complex single. The
principles are all the same for a twin, procedures are a tad
different for this particular plane. I believe (still) that these
differences didn't require toting an instructor, but did warrent
touchy-feely before loading up and expecting "book" performance.
Is that this "macho" hazardous attitude I hear so much about?-/
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Subject: Re: [IN]sensible students
Reply-To: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 1 Sep 92 00:28:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.224419.27168@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> mark@.cv.hp.com writes:
>> 
>> [I wrote in an earlier posting w.r.t. psychologically unfit pilots]
>> I consider this a responsibility of being a CFI to ...
>> ...                 And reporting them to the FAA/FSDO as
>> necessary if their actions do not improve over time.
>> 
>I think the situation may be similiar to that of a lawyer and his client.
>The lawyer is under obligation to represent the best interests of his/her
>client independent of the best interests of society.

Sorry, I don't agree.  The FAA makes it VERY clear that this is a basic
flight instructor responsibility.  [Informing them (the FAA) of students
that may have a deep psychological condition affecting safety.]

Actually lawyers have limits to attorney/client privileges.  Attorneys
are "Officers of the Court".  They can be called upon to testify on
observations not made in confidence.  (I saw it on Perry Mason last night,
so it must be true.)  But let's not get into that.

>Maybe its different
>with the instructor/student relationship.  (Yes, I know you could argue
>that reporting the student to the FAA is in the student's best interest
>but would a court agree with you?)

Fortunately, it is exceedingly rare to find such disturbed students.
[Finding distubed licensed pilots is much easier. :-( ]  The way the
world works, you would probably end up in some FAA court so the court
would agree with you.

Again, I consider it an instructor's reponsibility to notify the FAA,
but not be involved in the investigation other than testifying to direct
observations.  Probing the student's psyche to help improve his per-
formance is one thing, but digging much deeper to disqualify him as
a pilot is something I leave to the FAA.

Kerry
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: jhenderson@pomona.claremont.edu
Subject: Re: Blimp touch and goes...
Organization: Pomona College
Date: 25 Aug 92 11:35:46 PDT

In article <7187@lib.tmc.edu>, jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
>>Javier Henderson, N6VBG         | Beat the 55mph limit (legally):
>>jhenderson@pomona.claremont.edu | Learn to fly!
> 
> ...but not in a blimp, apparently... :-)

But if he did achieve his 50 kts redline, would that not be a bit over 55mph?

Then we can argue about ground speed with tailwinds...

(gee...this can go on forever...)
______________________________________________________________________________
Javier Henderson, N6VBG         | Beat the 55mph limit (legally):
jhenderson@pomona.claremont.edu | Learn to fly powered aircraft!
                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                        Does this fit the bill, Jay? ;-)
Xref: sparky rec.aviation:14195 soc.veterans:924 soc.history:7783