HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: savoia@sw.stratus.com (Rick Savoia)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: BayBucks
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:07:27 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Sep10.193726.22076@eff.org>, rita@eff.org (Rita Marie Rouvalis) writes:
> 
> 	Well, I've taken the concerns expressed here about BayBanks
> and passed them on to a Vice President of BayBanks Middlesex.  Not
> names or anything, just a summary of the complaints.  He is going to
> take them up at an upcoming meeting with his higher-ups.  I'll let the
> group know what I hear back.
> 
> 	Don't you just love the net?  Never know *who* is out there.
> 
> 	
> 
> -- 
> Rita Marie Rouvalis              rita@eff.org 


Way to go Rita!  You will definately have to keep us posted if 
you hear anything.  I wouldn't have minded having my name 
attached to that summary, though.  As the person who started this
whole thread, I think it's kind of funny. :)  At any rate, I'm 
probably going to write a letter myself about this to BayBanks
and see what kind of response I get.  

That was a good idea about sending the summary.  I wish I had
thought of  it myself!

Rick
========================================================
Rick Savoia                     |	This
savoia@watts.sqa.stratus.com    |	Space
rsavoia@beirut.sqa.stratus.com  |	For
Rick_Savoia@vos.stratus.com     |	Rent
========================================================
From: spike@coke.std.com (Joe Ilacqua)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Speaking of ATMs
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:52:46 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Software Tool & Die


	The Purity Supreme in Watertown (on Watertown Street) has
installed gizmos that let you pay for your groceries with your ATM
card (or Visa and Master Card).  You swipe your card, enter your code,
agree to the charge ("PRESS OK IF $59.74 IS CORRECT") and you are off.
Like paying with a check you can over pay to get cash back.

	Mobil has had these for a while and I have seen them in stores
in other parts of the country, but it's cool to seem them here.

->Spike

--
The Truly K00L don't have signatures.
From: bradlee@cg-atla.UUCP (Rob Bradlee)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: Speaking of ATMs
Date: 11 Sep 92 11:43:15 GMT
Reply-To: bradlee@cg-atla.UUCP (Rob Bradlee)
Distribution: ne
Organization: Agfa Compugraphic Division

In article <1992Sep10.181710.21969@osf.org> kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup) writes:
>
>... [debit card usage and purchase tracking discussions deleted] ...
>
>OK, so now the conspiracy-minded among us now fear the great POS debit-card
>rage among local grocery stores. (First it was Caller-ID, which we can't get
>in NE now. Thanks a lot.)
>
>Now, thanks to technology, the NSA as well as the National Direct Marketing
>Board knows I buy a lot of frozen dinners, pink grapefruit juice, and Heineken
>Dark beer.
>
>I don't get it. Clue me in. Where's the evil?
>

Get down, Ken! Look out!  With all this information about your buying habits
companies will be competing for your attention by lowering prices and
improving service.  Run and hide before they satisfy your needs!  They
are out to GET you.

(I suggest you switch to my method: I always pay cash under an assumed name
while wearing a groucho nose-and-glasses disguise).

				Rob

P.S.

But seriously folks, if you live near Cambridge I suggest the Cambridge Trust
Company for old-fashioned personalized banking service.  They don't find out about
you from computer records but by listening to you. 
(Disclaimer: I'm a stockholder as well as a customer)
-- 
Rob Bradlee  w:(508)-658-5600 X5153 
Agfa Corporation.                      ...!{decvax}!cg-atla!bradlee
200 Ballardvale St.                        bradlee@cg-atla.agfa.com
Wilmington, Mass. 01887 
Newsgroups: ne.general,ne.forsale
From: face@world.std.com (Scott Shurr)
Subject: Benefit Yard Sale
Summary: Yard sale to raise funds for WCC
Keywords: sale yard benefit waltham
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution: ne
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 13:53:01 GMT

The Waltham Concerned Citizens are holding a yard sale on
Saturday, September 19, from 10AM to 3PM, rain or shine,
at Christ Church, 750 Main Street, Waltham.  The sale is
the community group's main fundraising event.  We will
offer refreshments, and the sale will include books, records,
furniture, clothing (including a $1 per bag special), and
many other items.

To arrange pick-up or drop-off of donated goods, call 617-899-5344.
For further information about the sale, call 617-891-6689.

Newsgroups: ne.general
From: kyrouz@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Bill Kyrouz)
Subject: Re: Anyone else get this from BayBank?
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 02:19:04 GMT


  I use Shawmut myself-- they seem to be in about as many places
as Baybanks, and I don't pay them a cent in fees for my checking account..
  Of course it is the stripped-down "streamline" account, so I'm not getting
any interest either.  Since I'm a student I wouldn't make enough interest
to come out ahead of any fee in the other accounts.. :)

  With credit cards, checking and such-- there are banks that still think
they can get away with murder, but it's not to hard to find the banks
with the deals...  (I should now, I spent this past summer telemarketing
some of the worst credit cards known to man-- anybody get a call for
affinity credit cards?  I may have been on the other side of the line :)
no flames please!  I was a clean caller)

Bill
From: tonym@world.std.com (Tony Matt)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: Privacy and POS (Re: Speaking of ATMs)
Date: 11 Sep 92 04:14:09 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

In article <1992Sep10.214748.26806@osf.org> kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup) writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.181710.21969@osf.org>, I wrote:
>>Now, thanks to technology, the NSA as well as the National Direct Marketing
>>Board knows I buy a lot of frozen dinners, etc...
>
>I still don't understand what the harm is. What can they do with such useless
>information? It's not something relevant like how much money I've got in my
>bank/investment accounts, for example.

Submitted for your consideration and amusement, some (future) possibilities:

1. A chronic itch in an inconvenient place compels you to purchase some
Cruex or Monistat-7 at your local CVS.  The following week a letter
appears in your mailbox from a competing pharmaceutical company:  "It has
come to our attention that you are currently suffering from __________.  
Did you know that our product has twice the active ingredient ..."

2. You've just started that new job in the rejuvinated Massachusetts
economy.  Two weeks after you fill out your insurance application you
find out they won't cover you at the group rate because a dietary 
analysis extrapolated from your shopping habits indicates that you 
eat too much red meat.  Or because you checked off 'non-smoker' on 
the application but bought a pack of cigarettes for a friend two years 
before, and have to get that person to swear an affidavit to that effect.
Or because you purchased certain over-the-counter medications frequently 
enough that it could be actuarially predicted that you would require 
professional treatment at an unacceptable rate.

3. You're trying to sell your home, and the buyer's house inspector
taps into your database to ascertain what home improvement materials
you or your building contractors bought to perform the work on your
home, and how much you paid for those items.  Of particular interest
is whether any rat poison or septic tank chemicals show up.

4. You've decided that your country needs you, so you announce your
candidacy for public office.  Your opponent, a firm believer in family
values, observes that you are single and scrutinizes your purchasing
history.  Your rate of condom purchases becomes a campaign issue.  You
contemplate counter-punching with the details of your opponent's alcohol
buying habits.

I make no claims about the likelihood of these scenarios coming to pass,
only that they will, sooner or later, be technologically feasible and 
fairly undesirable (especially if I did not know beforehand that such
information about me was being circulated).

Tony Matt   tonym@world.std.com
From: koolish@BBN.COM (Richard M. Koolish)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Regatta volunteers party this Thursday
Date: 8 Sep 92 15:45:33 GMT
Reply-To: koolish@BBN.COM (Richard M. Koolish)
Distribution: ne
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com


        	HEAD-OF-THE-CHARLES REGATTA
        	---------------------------

The  Head-of-the-Charles  Regatta  is the world's largest one day
rowing event.  This year it will be Sunday, October  18th.   Over
1000 boats and 4000 rowers will be involved.  Last year the crowd
was estimated at 250,000. 

The  regatta  is organized and run completely by volunteers.  400
people are needed for the  various  committees.   The  committees
are:

    Awards
    Communications
    Course
    Emergency Services
    Finish Line
    Hospitality
    Judges
    Launches
    Magazine Beach
    Photography
    Registration
    Results
    Sales
    Signs
    Starting Line
    Stopwatch Timing
    Support Services
    Umpires
    Volunteers
    Weigh-in

There will be a volunteers party at the Cambridge  Boat  Club  on
Thursday,  September  10th.  at  6:00  PM.   The  boat club is on
Memorial Drive just before the Elliot  Bridge,  near  Fresh  Pond
Parkway and the Mt. Auburn Hospital.

To  RSVP,  call  617-864-8415  (press 1, then 2 on the voice mail
system)
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: Privacy and POS (Re: Speaking of ATMs)
Date: 11 Sep 92 04:42:33 GMT
	<1992Sep10.201331.2126@mips2.ma30.bull.com>
	<1992Sep10.214748.26806@osf.org>
Distribution: ne
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central

KC> == Kenneth Crudup <kenny@osf.org> 

 KC> I still don't understand what the harm is. What can they do with
 KC> such useless information? It's not something relevant like how much
 KC> money I've got in my bank/investment accounts, for example.

Hmm, he buys lots of high-sodium frozen foods, got a pack of cigarettes
and a six-pack of Bud last week.  Raise his life insurance premiums.

Hey, he bought two boxes of sugary cereal.  Start sending him junk mail
ads for kid's toys, he must have kids.

And so on...
--
Christopher Davis   | ]CALL -151       
<ckd@eff.org>       | *300: 20 DD FB 60
System Administrator| *3D0G            
EFF +1 617 864 0665 | ]CALL 768
From: blamb@rodan.hri.com (Bill Lambert)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: Privacy and POS (Re: Speaking of ATMs)
Date: 14 Sep 92 20:26:44 GMT
Reply-To: blamb@rodan.hri.com (Bill Lambert)
Distribution: ne
Organization: Horizon Research


=> In the article referenced above ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis) writes:
=> <Hmm, he buys lots of high-sodium frozen foods, got a pack of cigarettes
=> >and a six-pack of Bud last week.  Raise his life insurance premiums.

In article <SPIKE.92Sep14140942@coke.std.com>, spike@coke.std.com
(Joe Ilacqua) writes:
=> 	So long as they lower it because I buy free weights from time
=> to time and have my bike tuned regularly that's fine with me.

Yeah, but looks like you're a prime candidate for an accident, so
they'll get you on the medical insurance side :-) Drive carefully!

- Bill Lambert (I agree about the signatures)
From: richb@kronos.com (Rich Braun)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: Anyone else get this from BayBank?
Date: 8 Sep 92 20:43:26 GMT
Organization: Kronos Inc. / Waltham, MA
Disclaimer: This posting is a personal opinion and not that of Kronos Inc.

savoia@sw.stratus.com (Rick Savoia) writes:
>>If it wasn't for the fact
>>that they are everywhere (including an ATM in my building)
>>I'd probably go with someone else.   

barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin) writes:
>I've been with BayBank for 13 years. ...  But now I'm switching.
>
>DIRECT Federal Credit Union is on Cirrus, NYCE, Yankee 24, and Xpress 24

I switched.  My long-standing Baybank and Shawmut accounts have been
closed in favor of credit unions.  If I didn't have access to a credit
union, it'd be cheaper to keep my money in a cookie jar than to keep it
at one of these banks.  And that's probably where I'd put it.

No wonder those sleazy "Check Cashing Stores" are popping up everywhere!
The banks are a ripoff.

-rich
P.S.  With all these folks stashing money in cookie jars, I wonder how
	membership in the NRA is faring?  Up a little, eh?
Newsgroups: ne.general
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Privacy and POS (Re: Speaking of ATMs)
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
	<7221@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com> <1992Sep13.212156.23938@kronos.com>
Distribution: ne
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 23:41:14 GMT

Rich> == Rich Braun <richb@kronos.com> 

 Rich> The _Globe_ ran a bizarre editorial on a related topic a few
 Rich> months ago.  Owing to this proliferation of databases, usually
 Rich> indexed on Social Security Numbers, the paper called for the
 Rich> creation of a national ID card along with regulations on the use
 Rich> of information tied to this ID number.  Odd, I thought.
 Rich> (Reprehensible, too.)

The _Glob_ is great for bizarre rantings against the techno-privacy
types.  Anyone else remember the one where they ranted about how
requiring Caller-ID blocking was going to kill 911?
--
Christopher Davis   | ]CALL -151       
<ckd@eff.org>       | *300: 20 DD FB 60
System Administrator| *3D0G            
EFF +1 617 864 0665 | ]CALL 768        
Xref: sparky ne.general:2539 ne.forsale:4036
From: betsys@cs.umb.edu (Elizabeth Schwartz)
Newsgroups: ne.general,ne.forsale
Subject: Giant Multi-Family Yard Sale Sept.19 (Cambridge)
Date: 12 Sep 92 23:24:30 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston

First Annual Regent St Flea Market

Saturday September 19, Raindate September 20

Regent St, Cambridge
10:00 am - 4:00 pm

This is a Giant block-long multi-family yard sale! My own stuff
includes books, computer books and electronics, household furnishings,
clothes (some GOOD coats and jackets, women's sized 9-11) etc.
Lots of kids on the block so there should be lots of kids stuff. 

Regent Street is three blocks north of Porter Square, Cambridge


Walden-------|Mass|          There are two Porter Rds.
Creighton----|Ave |          By Car, Northbound, you need to take
Regent|------| |  |          a left at Porter Rd because Mass Ave
Porter|______|    |          is divided at Regent St.
Porter___|___| |  |------------
             | |  |Porter Sq
             |    |  shops
               |  |__________
               |   T Station
               |
               V to Harvard
--
System Administrator                  Internet: betsys@cs.umb.edu
MACS Dept, UMass/Boston               BITNET:ESCHWARTZ%UMBSKY.DNET@NS.UMB.EDU
100 Morrissy Blvd                     Staccato signals
Boston, MA 02125-3393                      of constant information....
From: wex@cs.ulowell.edu (Paul M. Wexelblat)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: Privacy and POS (Re: Speaking of ATMs)
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:36:35 GMT
Reply-To: wex@cs.ulowell.edu
Distribution: ne
Organization: Univ. of Lowell CS Dept.
Originator: wex@bigmax.ulowell.edu


In article <lb1s4pINNjrl@news.bbn.com>, levin@bbn.com (Joel B Levin) writes:
|> From: levin@bbn.com (Joel B Levin)
|> Subject: Re: Privacy and POS (Re: Speaking of ATMs)
|> Date: 11 Sep 1992 19:16:41 GMT
|> 
|> kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup) writes:
|> |>I still don't understand what the harm is. What can they do with such useless
|> |>information? It's not something relevant like how much money I've got in my
|> |>bank/investment accounts, for example.
|> 
|> Wait till they can break this down into what magazines and newspapers
|> you buy.  Wait till political organizations learn they can obtain this
|> information.  Wait till one of these parties is in power and the
|> government decides it can use this information.  And so on.
|> 
|> No thanks.

At least they can't (yet) tell which news.groups you subscribe to/read

(can they???????????)


?????????????????????
-- 
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.

	...Wex
Newsgroups: ne.general
From: pshuang@athena.mit.edu (Ping-Shun Huang)
Subject: Re: Anyone else get this from BayBank?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 00:45:47 GMT

I also received the same notice in my most recent BayBank statement.
While I am wearied by the nickle-and-dime fees (since I am not currently
meeting the minimum balance for Interest Checking, and none of the other
plans would end up saving me any money, either), I don't think this is a
big deal. I *DO* have reserve credit and Xpress checking. If I recall
correctly, the Xpress checking is bound by the same kind of rules as a
credit card if you should lose it (maximum $50 liability?) If you don't
trust Xpress checking, and never use Reserve Credit anyway, then cancel
it.... why should you care if the bank starts charging for a "service"
which you do not make use of anyway? I believe you had to explicitly
apply for the Reserve Credit (doesn't come default, not positive on
this, though), so you're flaming them about something which you decided
you wanted before because, heck, it was free, and now it isn't free.

I agree that many people, if it were not for the fact that BayBank
machines are *EVERYWHERE*, would probably use some other bank. But I see
this kind of differentiation in the marketplace as a plus, not a minus.
We could have N banks in the Boston area that were equally mediocre in
all aspects, or we could have banks that excel in some aspects but not
others, such that the customer gets to choose what is important to him
or her. (For example, I believe quite a number of banks have better
interest rates than BayBanks... but a majority of my friends and myself
don't really care about that, since we don't have enough money in our
accounts that the interest rate really matters very much. :)

--
Ping Huang (INTERNET: pshuang@athena.mit.edu), probably speaking for himself
From: Jeevan_Ramapriya@amicol.UUCP (Jeevan Ramapriya)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Howdy ya'll
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:06:37 GMT
Organization: Amiga Colony BBS

Hi there..  I pretty new here so I just thought I'd try to see what all
these networks do.... Anyways, I just wanted to say hi to all..
 
***Jeevan Ramapriya***

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992
From: grady@world.std.com (Dick Grady)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: Registry--not as bad as everyone says?
Date: 6 Sep 92 02:19:40 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA


I live in Salem, NH.  Whenever I renew my registration or license,
I use the DMV sub-station in Salem.

For license renewal, they send me an appointment notice for a particular
time and day, but that is only a suggestion. I can show up there any time
on Thursdays or Fridays (the days when the examiners are in Salem).
Usually, I'm in and out in 15 minutes, never more than 20.

For auto registrations, there are two hard-working efficient clerks on duty
5 days a week.  Longest line I saw was 10 people, and that was on the
last day of the month.  I was in that line, and waited only 15 minutes.

New Hampshire treats its citizens well!

-- 
            Dick Grady               grady@world.std.com
Newsgroups: ne.general
From: meissner@osf.org (Michael Meissner)
Subject: Re: Recommendation for a Day Care Center Wanted
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Distribution: ne
Date: 4 Sep 92 17:58:53

In article <1992Aug31.180429.18266@random.ccs.northeastern.edu>
alansar@ccs.northeastern.edu (Mohammad Al-Ansari) writes:

| We are new to the Boston area and we are looking for a good day care center
| for our daughter.  A location in Boston or Cambridge would be best.  We are
| concerned about the quality of care and, with the tens of centers out there,
| it is hard to tell just buy visiting them which is good and which is not.
| 
| I would appreciate it if people who had good experiences with such centers
| would recommend those places to us.  Is any of the big chains particularly
| good?

While it is out of the Boston/Cambridge area, we have been very happy
with Serendipity Child Development Center in the Merriam Building,
Charter Road in Acton.  What impressed me is something like 80% of the
teachers have been there five years, and 50% ten years.  Gwen (our
almost five year old) has been there sinc about June 1990.
--
Michael Meissner	email: meissner@osf.org		phone: 617-621-8861
Open Software Foundation, 11 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA, 02142

You are in a twisty little passage of standards, all conflicting.
From: jbs@Congruent.COM (Jeffrey Siegal)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: What is a bank?
Date: 14 Sep 92 21:17:38 GMT
Organization: Congruent Corporation; New York, NY
In-reply-to: edwardp@cs.umb.edu's message of 12 Sep 92 15:34:01 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.153401.19428@cs.umb.edu> edwardp@cs.umb.edu (Edward P. Piecewicz) writes:

   And don't forget GE's new MasterCard.  THAT one is targeted towards major
   appliance purchases.  And unlike AT&T and GM, General Electric DOES own
   a bank.

Is this true?  I thought AT&T bought the Universal Bank (primarily for
the purpose of issuing AT&T Universal credit cards).

Jeffrey Siegal

Newsgroups: ne.general
From: grady@world.std.com (Dick Grady)
Subject: Re: Speaking of ATMs
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution: ne
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 02:35:47 GMT

In article <SPIKE.92Sep9125246@coke.std.com> spike@coke.std.com (Joe Ilacqua) writes:
>
>	The Purity Supreme in Watertown (on Watertown Street) has
>installed gizmos that let you pay for your groceries with your ATM
>card (or Visa and Master Card).  You swipe your card, enter your code,
>agree to the charge ("PRESS OK IF $59.74 IS CORRECT") and you are off.
>Like paying with a check you can over pay to get cash back.

The DeMoulas/Market Basket Grocery chain has installed these in all
their stores (I've seen them in Salem NH, Haverhill MA and Woburn MA
stores.).
I wondered what incentive these stores have in installing this
system (after all these terminals cost money).  I figure that some-one
wants to collect information on who buys what.  After all, the scanner has
just recorded everything you bought; now they have your ATM account
number, which identifies you. (Good grief, maybe they capture
your PIN also.)
Well, I value my privacy too much to play this game.  I'll keep on using
cash, thank you!
-- 
            Dick Grady               grady@world.std.com
From: mgelman@cyclades.ma30.bull.com (Michael A. Gelman)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Privacy and POS (Re: Speaking of ATMs)
Date: 10 Sep 92 20:13:31 GMT
Reply-To: mgelman@cyclades.ma30.bull.com (Michael A. Gelman)
Distribution: ne
Organization: Bull HN Info Sys, Billerica MA

In article <1992Sep10.181710.21969@osf.org>, kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup) writes:
|> Now, thanks to technology, the NSA as well as the National Direct Marketing
|> Board knows I buy a lot of frozen dinners, pink grapefruit juice, and Heineken
|> Dark beer.

|> 
|> I don't get it. Clue me in. Where's the evil?

The problem is: Do your shopping habits belong to you?  (More
precisely, does information about your shopping habits belong to you?)

If, for example, I don't want to participate in phone polls, I can
refuse to answer.  But if the information is taken without my
knowledge (as in from my credit cards or ATM cards) I cannot decline to
particpate.  Does this infringe on my right to privacy?

Those people who have strong (some might say "overwhelming") feelings
regarding personal privacy often think that it does infringe.

One possible solution:  require that those who wish to be counted (or
those who do not) notify the credit card companies.  It is generally
the case (might even be required by law) that if you ask a company to
remove you from their mailing lists, they do.  

Personally, I'd like to know that companies are doing such things.  I
don't object to them doing it (I'm fond of junk mail), but I'd rather
keep track.

--Mike
-- 
Michael Gelman -- M.Gelman@ma30.bull.com 
Bull HN Info Systems -- Advanced Engineering Program 
(Any similarity between my opinions and those of Bull, living or dead, are
entirely coincidental.)