HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jbaron@higgs.ssc.gov (Jeff Baron)
Subject: Re: StairMaster Technique?
Reply-To: jbaron@higgs.ssc.gov (Jeff Baron)
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Lab
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:20:50 GMT

Todd Bergstrom writes:
- 
- >>>       2. others lean all over the hand trails and support most of their
- >>>          weight that way.  But these people usually go about an hour
- >>>          on the highest setting
- 
- 
-        A simple explanation on why a full stride is important.  If you look
- into a window or mirror while on the stairmaster your body will move up and
- down a little with each stride.  This distance is the important factor as 
- physics does not lie
- 
-     work equals force(body weight) time distance (movement of your

Actually, I believe that what you need to measure is the vertical
drop that you climb as you march back and forth, not how much your
body seems to move.  As the stairs bring you to a lower height, your
feet propel you back upwards, expending energy, even if your body 
moves only a little.

[This applies to stairmasters with 2 pedals mounted on 
fixtures attached to a moving gear, not the "treadmill" kind.]

Of course, the "speed" of the stairmaster, which is different for
different difficulty levels, is also different for different parts
of your stride, since the stairs are fixed to a small, rotating
round gear that rotates at a constant rate.  So at the "more vertical"
part of the stride, ie. near the bottom, the gears/steps will reduce
your "potential energy" (from your height above the ground) faster
than near the top of your stride, ie. the more horizontal part.

For example, if you took small, constant, 6 inch length steps, 
near the top more of the step would be devoted towards moving 
forward, while the same steps near the bottom would be devoted 
more towards moving upward.

Looking at it another way, if every step was to increase your
height by 8 inches, it would take *more* steps if you took your
strides closest to the floor.  The difference is *quite* noticeable.

This brings up an important point, though, and that is that you get
out of exercise what you put in.  Those people that stay near the
bottom will have a harder time than those that stay near the top.
So what.  If you like to stay at the top, you can simply make the
machine go faster.  If you want to use your hands for some 
support, you can make it go faster, although it may not be enough.  

You should have *pity* on those that try to take the shortcuts, 
and rest easily in the knowledge that you are undoubtedly in better 
shape than they are.  Right?

--
Jeff Baron
jbaron@gauss.ssc.gov

Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: smn@netcom.com (Subodh Nijsure)
Subject: Rowing machine or NordiTrack Ski machine?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 17:17:02 GMT

Fitness Gurus,
	Does anyone have recommendation for rowing machine? What are the
rough prices for one? Which one  would you fitness gurus recommend rowing
machine or NordiTRack ski machines?

Thanks in advance.
-Subodh
From: glen@rigel.cs.pdx.edu (Glen Barney)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Don't bring it back from the dead?  Amino acids...
Keywords: amino acids
Date: 11 Jan 93 23:28:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: pdxgate.6688

Okay, one last question and I'll stop.  I've heard from some people that
amino acids are an effective bodybuilding tool, while others say that
they're worthless.  I'd like to know who out there has had any luck with
them, or would like to tell me to stay clear of them :-).

Are "free-form" amino acids worth anything?

What about the GHR's - Arginine and Ornithine?  How much should you take
and when (relative to workout time) and how often?

Are there any other aminos that are good for bodybuilding?

What about egg-based and egg/milk-based protein powders?  Any good?  Any
good recipies?

Glen
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: glex@nitro.cray.com (Jeff Gleixner)
Subject: Re: Abs Question
Originator: glex@nitro
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:33:42 CST


In article <Jan.8.16.15.18.1993.1767@gandalf.rutgers.edu>, shagan@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Susan R. Hagan) writes:
> aa595@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dan Duvall) writes:
> >>There is little difference between eating a candy bar
> >>or drinking fruit juice.
> >...except for the many grams of fat found in most candy bars. Fruit
> >juice is fat free.
> How much vitamin C is in that candy bar?  How much fiber?
The idea, which has been lost, was that your body reacts the same to sugar no
matter what the source.. sugar is sugar is sugar. It doesn't matter if it's 
honey out of bottle or sugar right off the cane or fructose from fruit juice. 
-- 
glex@nitro.cray.com  === "Difficult tasks are never easy..."
From: loszewski_im@hnrc.tufts.edu
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Strength--Size--Weight Loss?????
Date: 12 Jan 93 18:26:58 GMT
Organization: USDA HNRC at Tufts University

In article <17916@umd5.umd.edu>, silver@macbeth.umd.edu (Adam Silver) writes:
> In article <jed3.726847096@Ra.MsState.Edu> jed3@Ra.MsState.Edu (Joseph E. Dunston) writes:
>>I have been lifting for a little over one year now.  Talking with people where I work out, I frequently get asked about my goal ( Why am I workingout Strength, Size, Weight Loss).  Also in reading some postings and magazine acticles the three seem to be sectioned off, you can have one but not the other.  Well I guess I'm hard headed or just plain ignorant 'cause I want ALL THREE.  Is this possible?  What would I have to do to succeed in doing this?  Any thoughts or advice is greatly appreciated.
>>
>>
>>Joseph
>>jed3@ra.msstate.edu
> 
> Joseph,
> 
> 	I believe it is absolutely possible.  Why?  Because I did it.  The
> summer before last, I was getting serious about weight training.  During a
> 3 month period, my bodyweight dropped from 193 to 162, my muscle mass
> increased, and my bench went from 315 to 340, so I ended up benching 340
> at 162.  :-)  I had (and now have even more) veins popping out.  I still
> have a gut but little fat everywhere else (like arms, legs).

:-)  :-)  I was going to make a "funny" but I think I better not!  :)
(oh what the hell,)  You have a gut because you ate too many Boston Brownies
when you were here!  Veins...you call those veins???????????  Oh wait...I get it
"but little fat everywhere else"...to see your "veins popping out"?????

hahhhh, I feel better...sorry couldn't help it.  :)

guess who?

> 
> 							-Adam
> 
> -- 
>      **********************************************************************
>      *               Adam Silver    Powerlifter/Armwrestler               *
>      *           silver@umd5.umd.edu    University of Maryland            *
>      **********************************************************************
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: djr48312@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Dennis Robinson)
Subject: Animal protein vs Plant protein. 
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 05:40:01 GMT

I am currently a college senior, and am into weight training to a
certain degree.  I eat good amount of protein from various sources.
All in all I eat chicken,fish and red meat in that order of precedence.
Sometimes though I get a little short on money and can't afford to buy
meat.  I was wondering could I buy beans instead and eat them in larger
quantities when my money for meat runs low.  Also could I supplant this
into my diet for protein?   
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: jed3@Ra.MsState.Edu (Joseph E. Dunston)
Subject: Strength--Size--Weight Loss?????
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 13:58:16 GMT

I have been lifting for a little over one year now.  Talking with people where I work out, I frequently get asked about my goal ( Why am I workingout Strength, Size, Weight Loss).  Also in reading some postings and magazine acticles the three seem to be sectioned off, you can have one but not the other.  Well I guess I'm hard headed or just plain ignorant 'cause I want ALL THREE.  Is this possible?  What would I have to do to succeed in doing this?  Any thoughts or advice is greatly appreciated.


Joseph
jed3@ra.msstate.edu
From: shishir@acs.bu.edu (Shishir Gundavaram)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Ankle Problem (ReVisted)
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:09:50 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: shishir@acs.bu.edu


I'm sorry I didn't mention this in the original posting:

I was on a pretty strong anti-inflammatory (Feldene 20mg/day) for
two weeks, and I stopped exercising 3 months ago. And it still
hurts.

It doesn't hurt while I'm walking or even running. It just hurts
while I'm going up or down stairs, and if I "explode" off that
ankle.

Thanks,

--Shishir
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: jjlawren@garfield.uwaterloo.ca (Jay Lawrence - DCS, MC 2029, x5327)
Subject: Re: Popping joints
Reply-To: jjlawren@garfield.uwaterloo.ca
Organization: Department of Computing Services, University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 14:39:14 GMT


In article 319@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU, kpfleger@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Karl Robert Pfleger) writes:
>geez...how come no one ever bites at this one
>
>all I know is: my knees have popped a lot ever since I was little and
>now that I lift, my shoulders pop all the time

I have had similar experience.  Since I was a kid have had crummy
shoulder performance.  When I was about 18 I started to look into
why my shoulders bother me.  Nothing conclusive from 2 GPs (go
figure, eh!).  After working out for about a year I have finally
figured out MY problem.

>I've heard a lot about different types of shoulder and knee injuries and
>never understood the relationship to the popping if any

In my case my shoulder would give me a bad snapping sensation
when doing many flye type exercises...and any shoulder exercises.
It got worse as the loads got greater.  Because I felt it in the
joint I assumed joint problem.  Then a friend of mine said I need
to stretch my shoulders alot more, so I started doing it.  It helped
a bit.  But, upon more research I learned my shoulder problems are
rooted in poor rotator cuff muscles.  (specificly external rotators.)

>I've had a trainer and a doctor tell me that building muscle in the area
>will reduce the popping (but nothing more detailed)

I got the "Rotator Cuff Solution" from Health For Life....best
investment I have made.  It explains alot about how the shoulder
works, and how you should look after it if you have problems
or want to avoid them.  I am on my way to recovering from a
minor problem with my externals...and am feeling great now!

>I've learned from experience that the popping can signal extreme
>soreness and pain sometimes when I'm using the joint a lot

Pain in joints can be a real problem.  You may need to consult
a specialist for this!  Possibly a physiotherapist?

>and I've had a friend who has lifted for a long time tell me that his
>shoulders always pop too and that he just rotates his arms in a circle
>(to make them pop) between sets and that prevents them from feeling
>really bad during the set

IRONMAN made a good point in the last issue - just because a
guy is big doesn't mean he knows what he is doing...sometimes
guys can get away with stuff on the basis of their type of body
but not everyone can do that....besides he may be avoiding a 
big problem...the above doesn't sound that healthy.

Anyway, what I have learned thus far....subject to revison, eh?!
And what works for me may not be for you in this case.  My
problem was easily spotted by finding out that my external rotators
were very sore after heavy workout...and that they got strained
to the point that I had to lay off for a short while.

Good luck!
Jay
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: glex@nitro.cray.com (Jeff Gleixner)
Subject: Re: My plan Re:My plan
Originator: glex@nitro
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:21:00 CST


In article <1993Jan8.104550.46220@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, wagner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
> In article <1993Jan7.165046.20117@walter.cray.com>, glex@nitro.cray.com (Jeff Gleixner) writes:
> > wagner@@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes
> > Couple of things here...
> > 1- Doing 5 sets of 12 reps while increasing the weight means that the 1st
> > 4 sets were a waste of time.  
> 
> 	Doing 5 sets, starting light and getting heavier as you progress in
> sets is a technique known as peramiding. The first sets gets you to warm up the
> muscles while the next 3 sets gradually get more difficult. The last 1 or 3

No Duah..  The 3 sets don't include warm-up... I still believe that if someone
does 5 sets pyramid style and can do more weight with the same # of reps then
they are wasting their time doing the 1st set.  Try it.  Everyone should learn
their limits and go to failure every set, after a warm-up.  Decrease the weight
to stay above 6 reps.   Failure = gains.  
-- 
glex@nitro.cray.com  === "Difficult tasks are never easy..."
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: krw@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (keith.r.smith)
Subject: Later sets get easier (was Re: Loss of Energy ....)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 15:18:54 GMT

In article <C0o600.DnF@cs.uiuc.edu> watanabe@cs.uiuc.edu (Larry Watanabe) writes:
>jcross@aud.alcatel.com writes:
>
>I went to the pool to do some 500's. I noticed that using about
>the same level of exertion, they got easier and faster with each
>succeeding set. By the last one I felt quite good.
>
>Usually, the first one is the easiest, and they get harder
>and harder.
>
>Does anyone else notice this effect? What does it mean?
>
>-Larry Watanabe watanabe@cs.uiuc.edu

I have noticed this effect when doing 300-rep sets of crunches.
The first 100 are slow, as I may cramp-up if I try to do them
too quickly. By the second hundred, I am feeling pretty-well
warmed up, and the speed picks up for the same effort. Into the
third hundred, I am movin'-right-along.  I only stop at 300, because
by then, I am ready to do something else.  I think that it really
has something to do with the muscles in question being warmed up
and ready for action.

Keith R
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: krw@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (keith.r.smith)
Subject: Re: Strength--Size--Weight Loss?????
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:45:26 GMT

In article <jed3.726847096@Ra.MsState.Edu> jed3@Ra.MsState.Edu (Joseph E. Dunston) writes:
>I have been lifting for a little over one year now.  Talking with people where I work out, I frequently get asked about my goal ( Why am I workingout Strength, Size, Weight Loss).  Also in reading some postings and magazine acticles the three seem to be sectioned off, you can have one but not the other.  Well I guess I'm hard headed or just plain ignorant 'cause I want ALL THREE.  Is this possible?  What would I have to do to succeed in doing this?  Any thoughts or advice is greatly appreciated.
>
>
>Joseph
>jed3@ra.msstate.edu
>
>
Hi Joseph!
If you are talking about:

	1) overall strength
	2) _muscle_ size
	3) _fat_ loss

Then you can have all three, but you cannot properly train for all three
at the same time. The training that is best for fat loss, for instance,
is gonna put a damper on your muscle-building.  The remedy is to train in
phases. Look in the mirror right now and determine whether you can get more
"mileage" out of fat-burning or muscle-building at the present.  You must
decide which it is, and train for that. Re-evaluate your physique on a
regular basis. Use the tape as a "sanity check", and throw your scale away.
The mirror will tell you when it is time to "shift gears" in your training.
I wouldn't worry too much about strength. The strength will come, provided
that you work hard enough and consistently enough. Train your body, not
your ego.  Too many heavy "singles" and "triples" will leave you at a greater
risk of injury, and injury will set-back all of your progress.

Keith R
From: bhjelle@carina.unm.edu ()
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: StairMaster Technique?
Date: 11 Jan 1993 16:39:16 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
NNTP-Posting-Host: carina.unm.edu

In article <1993Jan11.013813.11846@stortek.com> pae@blackcat.stortek.com (Phil Earnhardt) writes:
>In article <!f2rp3b@lynx.unm.edu> bhjelle@carina.unm.edu () writes:
>>In article <1993Jan8.200548.18834@inmet.camb.inmet.com> mazur@bluefin.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur) writes:
>>>On the other hand, I agree that supporting body weight is "cheating" but I
>>>really don't know why it should bother anybody.  Frankly, I don't see how
>>>supporting your body weight with your arms on a Stairmaster is any different
>>>than supporting your weight with your butt on a LifeCycle.
>
>The simplest response is that the "calories expended" measurement will be
>correct on the LifeCycle and incorrect on the StairMaster.
>
Who cares? Those ergometric estimates are notoriously unreliable.
One machine I use frequently tells me I use 33kcal/min, which is
at least double any realistic measure of my output. I have learned
to ignore those displays as meaningless ego-massage.

>>Here is another physical principle. Supporting your weight with your hands
>>requires maintained physical effort, and is not trivial. If you really wish
>>to assert that one method of using the Stairmaster is incorrect, you should
>>be able to back it up with the pulse rates of those people using the
>>different techniques.
>
>StairMaster says to not lean in their literature. Perhaps you should ask them
>for more information, brian.
>
Again, the proof is in the pudding. How well conditioned do people
get using different regimens? If you don't know, then your speculations
are meaningless. Stairmaster's pamphlets are written with a large
input by lawyers.

>>A poor technique, by definition, is one that does not raise one's pulse into
>>the aerobic range.
>
>There's more to poor technique than that!

You're right. Pulse is only about 95% of the equation.
>
>Constantly leaning with the arms does not give the arm muscles an
>aerobic-quality workout. 

Stairmasters are not designed to give the arms a workout, aerobic
or otherwise.

>The muscles never get a chance to relax. You're
>risking strains to the ligaments in your arm and wrist. You're also probably
>increasing your total amount of stress.

"Total amount of stress"? What is that? "Strains to the ligaments"?
You are the one who seems to be straining, Phil.

Brian
From: wagner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: My plan Re:My plan
Date: 8 Jan 93 10:45:50 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1993Jan7.165046.20117@walter.cray.com>, glex@nitro.cray.com (Jeff Gleixner) writes:
> 
> 
> wagner@@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes
> Couple of things here...
> 1- Doing 5 sets of 12 reps while increasing the weight means that the 1st
> 4 sets were a waste of time.  

	Doing 5 sets, starting light and getting heavier as you progress in
sets is a technique known as peramiding. The first sets gets you to warm up the
muscles while the next 3 sets gradually get more difficult. The last 1 or 3
sets are taken to failure. If you take the first set to failure you can rip a
joint, BAD NEWS! Taking to failure is a good idea, but especially not on the
first set or two. 



Do 3 sets of going to fatigue.  If you want
> to achieve 12 reps then you'll have to reduce the weight.  I'd suggest
> doing 3 sets of 6 reps with whatever weight you can handle for day #1, then
> on your next upper body workout do 3 sets of 12 reps.  This is easier on the
> joints.  

	I personally prefer the 5 sets of 12. Some people like the 3 of 10 or
six. This is a personal preference. Even the pro's differ on what they believe
to be the best strategy for attacking muscles. If your plan works for you then
by all means don't change it. My program works for me.

Also order is important.  Usually work larger -> smaller muscles.
> So the following should have tricep pushdowns & rows swapped (actually I
> think rows are much better so I'd put them before pulldowns).  Squats should
> be the 1st exercise for the lower body followed by leg extensions then 
> leg curls and calf raises.  

	This is an interesting concept. I believe I may give your suggestion a
try. Thank you.

I'd also drop the pec-deck for the 1st 6 months
> and concentrate on benching.  Do the basic exercises (the ones that use
> many muscles squats, bench, row, military press, deadlift) for 2-3 sets of
> failure and increase the weight used when you're able to do more reps than
> you'd like (7 or 13 in the above example).

	Again, suggesting to a beginner to do fewer sets to failure is asking
for problems. Most beginners will take this to mean put on more weight then you
can safely control, then overstrain your joints to try to move it. The 3sets of
6 is better saved for someone who has acquired "the feel" for lifting and can
better understand what their body is telling them.
> 
>>	Bench Press:	5 sets / 12 reps increasing weight
>>	Pec Deck:	5 sets / 12 reps 1st light rest normal
>>	Lat Pulldowns:	5 sets / 12 reps 1st slightly lighter rest normal
>>	Tricep Pushdown:5 sets / 12 reps 1st light last heavy@8 reps
>>	Rows:		5 sets / 12 reps increasing weight
>>	Curls:		5 sets / 12 reps 1st light rest normal
>>
>>	Hamstring Curl:	5 sets / 12 reps 1st light last heavy@8 reps
>>     	Quad Curl:	5 sets / 12 reps 1st light
>>	Deltoid Press:	5 sets / 10 reps 1st light last heavy@8 reps
>>	Calf Curls:	5 sets / 12 reps 1st light rest normal
>>	Squats:		5 sets / increasing weight
> 
> -- 
> glex@nitro.cray.com  === "Difficult tasks are never easy..."
From: mazur@bluefin.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: StairMaster Technique?
Date: 8 Jan 93 20:05:48 GMT
Organization: Intermetrics, Inc.

In article <1993Jan8.192219.21089@news.acns.nwu.edu> bergstrm@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Todd Bergstrom) writes:
>
>       A simple explanation on why a full stride is important.  If you look
>into a window or mirror while on the stairmaster your body will move up and
>down a little with each stride.  This distance is the important factor as 
>physics does not lie
>
>    work equals force(body weight) time distance (movement of your

Ok, Mr. Physics, but what about frequency?  If I am able to do two or more
little strides to your one (you said it looked like slow motion), then
I am still covering the same distance, and hence, doing the same work.

And although you are Mr. Physics, that apparently does not make you
Mr. Anatomy.  A comfortable stride for a tall person (often a male)
may actually be tough on the joints of a shorter person (often a
female).  

On the other hand, I agree that supporting body weight is "cheating" but
I really don't know why it should bother anybody.  Frankly, I don't
see how supporting your body weight with your arms on a Stairmaster
is any different than supporting your weight with your butt on a
LifeCycle. 

Beth Mazur                   "...life is more than a vision.  The sweetest
mazur@inmet.inmet.com         part is acting after making a decision."
...!uunet!inmet!mazur                                  -- The Indigo Girls
From: shishir@acs.bu.edu (Shishir Gundavaram)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Ankle Problem (ReVisted)
Date: 12 Jan 93 01:30:46 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: shishir@acs.bu.edu


Hi,

I asked this question a couple of months ago, and I didn't get
any resposes. Since then, I went to the doctor a couple of times, and he
says that he doesn't know what it is (X-Rays came out negative).
Here is my problem:

If I stand straight with my feet making full contact with the ground, and
then slowly proceed to bend down with my knees, with the feet still in contact,
I experience pain in my ankle.

Does anybody know what the problem is?  Can you please mail any responses
to: shishir@acs.bu.edu.

Thanks,

--Shishir
Newsgroups: misc.fitness