HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni)
Subject: No Comparison!   (was HELP)
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 15:23:58 +0300

On: 28 Aug 92 17:34:18 GMT
murray.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu discusses the great damage caused by
Hurricane Andrew in South Florida:

>South Florida is in terrible shape. I can only compare it to an Atomic
>bomb going off as there is just rubble in areas and nothing else.
>I have spoken to some Chabadniks in Miami Beach and they are back in
>business after three days, but there are thousands, many, many thousands
>without the basic essentials.
>The lucky ones, still having cars, are here in West Palm Beach buying
etc. etc.

I who has only "witnessed" the fury  of Andrew from a seat in front of
my TV, will  be the last to deny  the great havoc played by  it on his
trail across several islands and states.

But is there  not one of the  Ten Commands, not to take  God's name in
vain? Can one  not learn from it, mutatis mutandis,  not to make false
comparisons? Too many  Israelis and Jews in general (a  minority, I am
sure),  like to  compare those  Arab leaders  who fought  and attacked
Israel to Hitler.  Any greater calamity that befalls Jews is labeled a
Holocaust.  Do people  not realize that by the overuse  of these terms
one cheapens the original unique horrors?

And now  the natural forces  and their consequences of  that Hurricane
are compared  to "an Atomic  bomb going  off there".  Well,  I visited
Hiroshima more  than 40  years after  1945 August 6.   I also  saw the
pictures in the museum.  In Hiroshima one could not say that many were
"back in  business after three  days" after  August 6, nor  were there
then any "lucky ones, still having cars" at all.

Who needs these terrible exaggerations?   Reality is bad enough.

Michael Shimshoni
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
Subject: Re:  Woody and Soon Yi
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:31:22 GMT

>Let others debate the question of whether this constitutes incest; 
>surely the question that WE must pose is:
>will she convert?

I don't think Judaism accepts conversion for the purpose of incest.

-Don Gertler
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Missionary Aid
Date: 1 Sep 92 23:12:04 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Sep1.161304.16097@cbis.ece.drexel.edu> jpw@minerva.ece.drexel.edu (Joseph Wetstein) writes:

>If anyone has any favorite arguments to use against such missionaries, I would 
>appreciate hearing that too.

Well, my usual tactic, first, is to deny the divinity of the New
Testament.  I ask them to prove EVERYTHING based on Old Testament
sources.  Some can get by this way, which is when I resort to phase
two:  I deny their translation.  Most missionary bibles are based on
the King James version, which is ripe with mistranslations, either
accidental - from translating Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English, or
deliberate - to prove the Christian faith.  I take out my copy of "The
Jerusalem Bible" (Koren Publishers) which has a Jewish translation
directly from Hebrew to English and ask to compare all phrases.

Once they see Hebrew, they usually get out quickly.  It may not work
in all situations, though.  Then you actually have to know something.

>Is there a verse in the new testament that says/implies that if
>someone requests a copy of their bible, then they have to give it to them?
>I heard something like that once from a Rabbi who debates these guys
>regularly, but I can't remember the quote.

One Rabbi I knew used to have fun with missionaries.  He'd say
something like:

   "Jesus said you should give the shirt off your back to someone who
    asks you to, right?"

   "Right"

   "OK, give me your shirt..."

or:

   "Jesus said that if you get hit by someone, you should turn the
    other cheek and not get angry, right?"

   "Right"

   "OK"  And hits him.

These last two only work well in public when there's a crowd watching.
Especially the later.  If he gets upset, he just made a total fool of
himself.  Personally, I couldn't do this, but it is funny to read
about.

I happen to like the first technique.  You get lots of shirts that
way, too!  :-)


-- 
   |)  David Charlap           "TELEPHONE, n.  An Invention of the devil which
  /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu   abrogates some of the advantages of making a
 ((|,)                          disagreeable person keep his distance."
  ~|~                              --- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:39:33 EDT
From: <EXG106@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Mac David
 <92241.205001EXG106@psuvm.psu.edu>
 <goldberg.715362358@techunix.technion.ac.il> <2510@israel.nysernet.org>
 <92246.222444EXG106@psuvm.psu.edu> <Bu0DMH.7s9@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>

In article <Bu0DMH.7s9@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>, aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S.
Nusbacher) says:
>
>In much of Pennsylvania it's called a Gyro, even when served in a Lebanese
>restaurant.

To somebody's question as to "is shawarma the same as gyros," there's your
answer.

A good place to get shawarma in Jerusalem, is a place called "king of falafel
and shawarma" (Unless they've changed their name or moved) by the midrachov, on
the same street that "migdal ha'ir" and carvel icecream are.

         Eylon

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Missionary Aid
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:04:49 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.161304.16097@cbis.ece.drexel.edu>
jpw@minerva.ece.drexel.edu (Joseph Wetstein) writes:

>If anyone has any favorite arguments to use against such missionaries, I would 
>appreciate hearing that too.

I wouldn't use it as a first line of defense, but for the really annoying
ones you could try the following:

Ask if he accepts _everything_ in his bible.  If he says yes, slap him
once.  If he gets angry, ask him about the verse about turning the
other cheek.  If he agrees that its part of his bible and that he
believes it, slap his other cheek, even harder.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
From: murray.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: My Friend, part 2 of 2
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:22:06 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton

I Am [Drawn To] My Friend - Part 2 of 2
 
   There  is  a well-known  story involving  R.  Zusya of  Anipoli that
illustrates this point:  R. Zusya, a disciple of the  Maggid, once came
to Mezritch  [the town in  which the Maggid  lived] to spend  some time
with the  Maggid.  He left his family flour  and vegetables to see them
through until his  return.  [However,  the amount of  food he left  for
them did not suffice, and] upon  his return he observed that his family
was starving.  R.  Zusya then went to a field outside  of his town, and
prayed:  "Master of the Universe, Zusya and his family must have food!"
Returning from the field, R. Zusya observed an open pit at  the side of
the road,  in which were lying  coins.  Taking several  and leaving the
rest,  he covered  up  the  pit  and  went on  to  purchase  flour  and
vegetables, enough to  last his family for quite a  while.  Having done
this, he returned to his holy and devoted service of G-d.
   "My  Friend is [drawn] to me" thus  refers to G-d's desire that this
most lowly and physical world be transformed into a  dwelling place for
Him, through  the service of Torah  and mitzvos.  For,  as expressed by
the  Alter  Rebbe:   "Such  was His  blessed  will that  He  shall have
satisfaction when the sitra achra (the other side - that of unholiness)
is subdued  and the darkness  is turned  to light, so  that the  Divine
light of the blessed En Sof (the Infinite One) shall shine forth in the
place of the  darkness and sitra  achra throughout this world,  all the
more strongly and intensely, with the excellence of light emerging from
darkness than its effulgence in the higher worlds."
   [Since  tzaddikim  bring  about  the  fulfillment  of  G-d's  desire
expressed in "My friend  is drawn to me," by  making this world into  a
dwelling place for Him,] therefore: "I am drawn and ask all my needs of
my Friend" - the physical necessities of tzaddikim are provided for  by
G-d without their having to toil for them.
   The  second manner  of spiritual  service is  that of  the penitent,
wherein  the person  arouses within  himself the  spiritual service  of
teshuvah.  This is alluded to in the verse:  "I am [drawn] to my friend
and my friend is [drawn] to  me," in Hebrew, the first four  letters of
these words forming the word Elul.  [Elul, the last month of the Jewish
year,]  is the  time  of  spiritual  stock-taking,  a  time  when  each
individual should ponder well  his spiritual state and  standing, doing
teshuvah for past misdeeds and making good resolutions for the future.
(Chassidic Discourses, 235-237)
 
---
 *  Origin:  WORLDS  LARGEST  strictly  JEWISH  BBS  -  (718)  756-7201
FidoNet(1:278/610) To respond, write nachman@corner.wpb.fl.us 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Jewish Popes?
Keywords: Jewish pope
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 20:40:22 GMT

>In article <1992Aug28.104145.202557@uctvax.uct.ac.za> naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>>Was there a historically verifiable "Jewish" pope ever?

In article <1992Aug31.133513.23883@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg) writes:
>  Gut Yontiff, Pontiff.

Vus ist neies, Pius?

Aryk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 03:05:21 GMT

josip@src.umd.edu (Josip Loncaric) writes:
# 
# My encyclopedia says Poland lost 5,420,000 people in WWII,
# including Polish Jews, Poles and others...  full 5,300,000 of these were
# civilian casualties.

These are the same numbers I have seen; the number of Polish Jews that
died seems to vary. Most authors estimate it to be between 2.7 and 3
million. Reitlinger, in his book "The Final Solution" gives 2.2 million
and 2.6 million as lower and upper bounds, but his estimate is
smaller then anyone's else I saw.

# Anti-Semitism was clearly a huge factor in this,
# but do not forget the context: mass murder of the Jews is deeply
# linked to Hitler's search for "Lebensraum" in the East and his campaign
# of terror against Slavic populations he found in his way, including Poles.

Yes and no. Jews from *all* of Europe - including France, Holland, etc -
were marked for extermination, so it was not only for Lebensraum
purposes. It was a very deep, idealogical thing.

-Danny Keren.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 21:40:39 GMT

In article <87868@netnews.upenn.edu> kkniaz@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
(Krzysztof W. Kniaz) writes:

>I'm writing in this group only because mr Saal does not consider my
>private mail to him worth of answering. 

Did my mail to you bounce (I didn't get it back) or did you just dislike
my answer?

For all other readers, sorry to have posted this publicly. I'm giving Mr.
Kniaz the benefit of the doubt that it did bounce and that I shall see
either his private response or the bounced mail in my inbox in a day or
so.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Some cute definitions ...
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:53:33 GMT

ehrlich%bimacs.BITNET@uu2.psi.com (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
>The Hebrew terms:
>     HEFKER = a property belongs to no one,
>     HEFKERUT = behaviour without moral barriers
>  derived from the name of that philosophy.

HEFKER	 = abandoned (item)
HEFKERUT = abandon

-Don Gertler
From: hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles)
Subject: Re: Torah In A Torah Context (was Re: more of ...can of worms....)
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1992 20:10:22 GMT

In article <Bu0DD0.CzF@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
>	...
>But a history book, or a science book, does not deliberately include as
>facts things which are known to the author to be false.  If we assume
>that the Written Torah is the literal word of God, we should be able
>to assume that every word is literally correct.  Here we have two
>extensively described rivers, which we cannot find, and two barely
>described rivers, which "everybody" knows.  Now I have no problem with
>accepting that the extensive description is there because good geography
>books did not exist in those days, but the description should fit SOME
>rivers arising in those mountains of southeastern Turkey.
			~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399


I agreed with you until your last sentence. Who says this has to be
in southeastern Turkey? Perhaps these 4 rivers are in some uninhabited
region near the South Pole? For that matter, perhaps these 4 rivers
happen to be 4 intersecting canals on the Planet Mars. I agree
with you that these possibilities may not jibe with the "accepted"
translations, but who says the "accepted" translations are correct?
Or furthermore, maybe they are correct - but it so happens, that there
are 4 canals on MArs with the identical names.

I just don't seen any evidence from the text itself that would
allow you to pinpoint its locations.

I suppose if G-d had wanted us to know exactly where this was, he
would have provided the latitude and longitude. But then again,
that might have increased tourism dramatically, and the guardian
angels posted there might be too busy handling the flood of visitors.  
:-)

BTW, someone may have asked you about the Flood, but I don't recall
your response. At the risk of forcing you to repeat yourself:

I also find it difficult to accept the notion that the Flood did not
change the geography/topology at all.  After all, according to the
Biblical account, the Flood wreaked havoc on the entire Planet Earth -
and if you accept the Talmudic accounts, it was even worse. According
to the Malbim (I believe), even the tilt of the Earth's axis was
affected by the flood. So I don't think it unreasonable to claim that a
few tiny rivers were also affected.


Hayim Hendeles
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: more of ...can of worms....
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 19:19:56 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


Herman Rubin has posted several "explanations" of the origins of the
Torah in support of his position that recording errors could have been
made in what it says God said, thus opening the Reform floodgates to
their process of picking and choosing from among the Mitzvot.

I'm curious (and not being argumentative here) as to whether these
"explanations" are of non-Jewish, secular, or Reform origin, and thus
might legitimately be viewed as more special pleading of no particular
weight to other than Reform Jews, or whether they are from what might
fairly be called "incontrovertible" sources.

I'm also curious as to how many of his "explanations" are speculative
in origin and how many are backed up with hard evidence. I'm not
referring to the pre-Abrahamic material, but to the Mosaic period,
with specific reference to the Mitzvot.

I am trying to learn, here, not defend a particular position.

David
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: wedding on Saturday??
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 12:34:41 GMT

In article <92239.011710CFRQC@CUNYVM.BITNET> ToraByte
<CFRQC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:

>When a man takes a woman as his wife, he says "Harei at MEKUDESHES li ..."
>The man is sanctifying, separating and designating the woman to be his
>wife. This is the problem. One isn't allowed to sanctify and separate
>something (i.e. Mekudash, Mekudeshes) on shabbos. Thus weddings are not
>done on shabbos.

I am no Posek (nor do I play one on TV :-) but I thought the problem is
with the contractual aspect of a wedding, not with the sanctification.
After all, Kiddush on Shabbat is a sanctification.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
		Note new machine name
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Mac David
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:27:52 GMT

In article <92246.222444EXG106@psuvm.psu.edu> <EXG106@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:

>Has anyone ever tried shwarma (sp?).  Well, I can spell it in hebrew but not
>in English.  But then, if you know what it is, you'll recognize it.
>If you don't know: it's lamb meat (I think) on this metal "stick," rotating
>around (vertically) with a flame around it.

My sisters call it "monkey meat".

I, of course, assume that only the best cuts of lamb are compressed into the
lamb-loaf that shawarma is made from.  Or, to paraphrase an old saw, "from the
hooves up it's lamb".

In much of Pennsylvania it's called a Gyro, even when served in a Lebanese
restaurant.

Aryk Nusbacher
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: matthew@stats.mu.oz.au (Matthew Zalbiciewski)
Subject: Re: Auschvitz and $$$ & The Ontario Press Council 
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 03:24:11 GMT

saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:

>In article <1992Aug21.153009.8660@schbbs.mot.com>
>swietor@ecf.toronto.edu (Maria Swietorzeck) writes:

>>       NAZI CAMPS BUILT BY THE GERMANS IN GERMAN-OCCUPIED POLAND

>>We urge you to do so by writing to the Press Council, and copying the editor 
>>of the Toronto Star and the Congress.

>Alternative text:

>Secretary General, Canadian Polish Congress, 288 Roncesvalles Ave., 
>Toronto,Ont. M6R 2M4 


>DATE:	__________________


>Mr. Mel Sufrin
>Executive Secretary, Ontario Press Council
>80 Gould Street, Suite 208
>Toronto, Ontario M5B 2M7


>Dear Mr. Sufrin:

>I am aware of the complaint by the Canadian Polish Congress concerning
>the Toronto Star's use of appropriate wording to describe Nazi German
>concentration camps in German-occupied Poland.  I fully support the
>Toronto Star in this issue.  References to camps of unspecified origin
>and simply said to be located in Poland are factually accurate but
>deeply offensive to Poles trying to minimize their own participation in
>antisemitic atrocities before, during, and after World War II.  I
>believe that news stories should be clear on this point.

>Yours truly,



>________________________________
>SIGNATURE: 

>________________________________
>NAME IN FULL:

>______________________________________________________________________________
>ADDRESS:     street             city           Province         Postal Code

>cc.: Mr. John Honderich, Editor
>     The Toronto Star, One Yonge St., Toronto, Ont. M5E IE6
>	 Secretary General, Canadian Polish Congress, 288 Roncesvalles Ave.,  
>     Toronto,Ont. M6R 2M4




>-- 
>Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
>		Note new machine name
>	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton

That's it! Give'em what they deserve. And maybe, just maybe, in a few
decades history will have changed.

MZ
From: memco@cns.nyu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Oldest Culture?
Date: 1 Sep 92 23:14:01 GMT
Reply-To: memco@cns.nyu.edu
Organization: New York University

Question:

	In a long and not really relevant post in soc.culture.chinese,
there was a brief part that confused me. 

	The person posting asserted that the Chinese culture was
the oldest still around. Wouldn't that actually be either the Jewish
or Zoroastrian cultures?

	I'd like to respond to the post but would prefer to be sure.

	Thanks.

---
memco@wotan.cns.nyu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 21:53:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.212127.10731@dgbt.doc.ca> ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted
Grusec) writes:

>Sam: Surely you must know that not all Poles are revisionists nor wish
>to minimize Polish complicity and complacency!  If we keep our eyes
>pointed exclusively at the past, then we might not see where we are
>going.

I agree completely and wholeheartedly.  By the same token, the old saw
"those who forget the past are bound to repeat it" also applies.

Humanity and civilization progress only when appropriate proportions of
forward and backward vision occur.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Jewish Popes?
Keywords: Jewish pope
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 13:35:13 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.104145.202557@uctvax.uct.ac.za> naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>Was there a historically verifiable "Jewish" pope ever?
  Gut Yontiff, Pontiff.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: tb13@quads.uchicago.edu (leon joel gross)
Subject: Re: Genealogy
Reply-To: tb13@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 01:05:22 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.221533.26621@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> ce157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric W. Mack) writes:
>
>Is anybody interested in Jewish genealogy?  Is there an existing
>forum to swap ideas and seek information on names & towns?  If
>not, how do I go about setting up such a bulletin board?
>-- 
>Eric Mack or Cheryl Birkner Mack

The Diaspora Museum, near the campus of Tel Aviv University, has
a database of names and towns where visitors can look up their info.
I don't know if there is access to that database from outside of the
Museum though.

Leon Gross
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Mac David
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 2 Sep 92 05:26:25 GMT

In <goldberg.715362358@techunix.technion.ac.il> goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg) writes:

> Sure, but have you tried to take a bus from Egypt on your way to Israel?
> Ask the driver to drop you at the SLAV Restaurant near Be'eroth Ha'Ta'ava !

I ate there once.  I got sick of the stuff, felt like the stuff was
coming out my nostrils.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire auditorium		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very *** mathom.
 |warren@      But the principal
/ nysernet.org is not all that ***.
From: santen@dutiws.tudelft.nl (Marieke.van.Santen.IS-tel-7216)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Mac David
Date: 3 Sep 92 21:44:10 GMT
Organization: T W I, Delft University of Technology

Be careful about eating shoarma in the Netherlands since in 95% of the shops 
they sell treife shoarma.
in case of emerg. buy one at Cohen`s , Rijnstraat, Amsterdam ( Mokum ). 

Mischa van Vlaardingen,

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish