From: kriz@skat.usc.edu (KRIZ)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Cath. Christianity 101 - responding to JP II and lib. theology
Date: 21 Jul 1992 19:07:56 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: skat.usc.edu


In article <1992Jul17.105300.518@maths.tcd.ie> pmoloney@maths.tcd.ie (Paul Moloney) writes:
>kriz@skat.usc.edu (KRIZ) writes:
>
>>Actually I actually love this ... Paul lambastes JP II for not being
>>a Communist ...
>
>Gee, I did? I didn't realise I said that. Then again, seeing as how you have
>a direct line to God, you must be right and I must be wrong.
>
>>... Kent for JP II for rejecting the "values" of western
>>consumerism.  That speaks volumes.  And it's basically anti-Catholicism 
>>no matter what.
>
>*sigh* I'll explain. What I was refering to was the fact that while
>on one hand, JPII tells his Latinamerican priests "Don't get involved
>in politics", he then turns around and gets involved himself. Various
>cliches, including "practise what you preach" spring to mind. It seems
>that he doesn't mind the Church getting involved in politics as long 
>as it is on a side he agrees with.

I feel I should explain too.

JP II did not tell them not to work for social justice.  He told them
not to equate Marxism with Christianity.

With regards to asking priests to refrain from politics ... Catholic
priests are no longer allowed to hold government posts, and individual
Catholic priests are not allowed to endorse political candidates without
their bishop's approval.  

These restrictions were applied to everyone.  There are no priests in
the governments/legislatures of post-Communist Eastern Europe.  Indeed,
at least one ... Fr. Vaclav Maly, who had been very active in the 
Czechoslovak Charter 77 dissident movement prior to the overthrow of 
the Communist government there, pointedly refused to take a government
post in post-Communist Czechoslovakia, even though he would have almost
certainly been given one if he had not.

But also to imply that the Church or specifically the Vatican or even
more specifically the present pope, JP II, opposes efforts at attaining 
social justice in Latin America is also false.  The bishops' conferences
throughout Latin America and the rest of the Third World continue to
routinely bash the despots that rule much that part of the world.  And
when the Pope travels, he certainly chimes in.  The Pope had nothing
nice to say to the leaderships of Chile, Haiti, and Central America
when he visited those countries (when he visited Chile, he openly
endorsed the electoral process to oust Pinochet that was underway at 
the time).  But that is all oh so inconvenient to the rhetoric of
the "hip-with-it" Left of this country ... and so this all is 
ignored.

>>The Church does not need Marx thank you.  It's model of solidarity
>>and subsidiarity in defense of human dignity is frankly better.
>
>Read what I said again, Kriz, and stop trying to pin the red label on me.
>Frankly this American attitude of screaming "commie, commie" at anyone who
>doesn't agree with you is rather childish.
>
>P.

I'm sorry Paul if you took me as red-baiting.  For the record, I really
could careless if you were a Communist or not.  It is oh so "hip/with-it"
for the "learned" in this country to out of hand attack the church for
being for/against this or that ... without having a clue of what
the Church is actually saying.  That is what I was responding to.

dennis
kriz@skat.usc.edu

Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc