HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: veintie@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Ari Veintie)
Subject: Finncon93
Keywords: sf con Finland 1993 Pratchett Talbot free
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 16:42:56 GMT

You may already have heard that TERRY PRATCHETT was to be the Guest of
Honour in Finncon-93 next August.

That is still true.

You won't probably have heard that BRYAN TALBOT will be the other major
Guest of Honour.

Now that you have, I might mention that Finland is the country between
Sweden and the late USSR. 75 years of indepency, rather large in European
standards, but small in population. The land of Koskenkorva, paper and
Nokia-Mobira mobile telephones. Whatever. SF as in Suomi Finland. Never
mind, now you know.

In the shameful event of your not recognizing our guests, let me refer you
for example to the Discworld books and The Adventures of Luther
Arkwright among other works.

The point:

		Finncon 93, August 7th - 8th
at the
		Old Student House, Helsinki, Finland
GoHs
		Terry Pratchett and Bryan Talbot

membership fee
		none

contact e-mail
		me

We're not seriously trying to lure you all to this expensive northern
country where you aren't allowed to go to a restaurant barefooted. Just
letting you know what's happening in case you've been planning to come
somewhere nearby (like Stockholm the following weekend, perhaps).

Organizers: Helsinki SF Society, Helsinki University SF Club and Helsinki
University Students Union

You have been reading an official Finncon Committee net-release by Ari Veintie
-- 
                       @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@   l'essentiel
 La vida no vale nada  @  veintie@cc.helsinki.fi  @      c'est
                       @ =ari.veintie@helsinki.fi @     departir
                       @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom,rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.misc
From: heyer@stsci.edu
Subject: Dave Bishoff (request for contact)
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 17:58:53 GMT

I am looking to contact Dave Bishoff, writer of SF novels and the 
soon-to-be-published Star Trek: The Next Generation novel "Grounded".
Our local Star Trek group would like to invite him to our convention,
so we need to know where to write/phone to. Communication through 
Pocket Books has proven far too slow, so Dave, if you're out there,
please contact me through any of the ways shown in my .sig. If anybody
knows Dave, please pass the message along.
Thank you.
                                             CloudShape

********************************************************************************
*        Inge Heyer                  * I am a private Star Trek collector.     *
* email: heyer@scivax.stsci.edu      * Please let me know of old and/or rare   *
* voice: (410)338-5017 (9-6 EST)     * items offered for sale or trade. Of     *
* snail: STScI, 3700 San Martin Dr., * particular interest are promotional     *
*        Baltimore, MD 21218         * items of any kind, and foreign items.   *
********************************************************************************
Disclaimer: These are my opinions. No one else would want them.
From: fafhrd@lunacity.com (David Medinnus)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Art Show Mail-In
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 13:50:24 PST
Organization: LunaCity BBS - (Clan Zen Relay Network) Mountain View, CA

rcampb@cac.washington.edu (Russ Campbell ) writes:

> I hereby issue a very public thank you to Shawn for two things:
> 
> 1) the very lucid article she submitted to our disucssion through Dave
> Medinnus.
> 
> 2) the speed with which I have received my unsold pieces of MAIL-IN ART
> back from Silicon; it's back in time for me to use the unsold pieces at my
> next show.
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> |  Russell  D.  Campbell        : No new snappy quote or saying.   |
> |  rcampb@u.washington.edu      : I'm just tired of the old one.   |
> |  (206)543-0846 @UW in Seattle :                                  |
> |------------------------------------------------------------------|
> | Anyone can have an opinion, but very few people ever bother to   |
> | educate themselves before expressing one.                        |
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 

Shawn is a professional, regardless of what problems others might have 
with the way she operates.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Medinnus -> (fafhrd@lunacity.com)
From: fafhrd@lunacity.com (David Medinnus)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Films, Video, and Violations Of Fed Copyright
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 23:01:32 PST
Organization: LunaCity BBS - (Clan Zen Relay Network) Mountain View, CA

Silicon spoke to the anime studios, who are still small enough to want 
the exposure, and who are grateful that we did not show their stuff 
without permission. They let us show stuff without charge, and sometimes 
provide us with pre-release stuff.

Given the problems of getting permission from major film studios to show 
their video, Silicon had a film program instead; there are several 
different rental houses in which the license fee for public showing is 
included in the price of the rental (college orgs, at least in the SF Bay 
Area, often use it for fund-raising). Fims rent for from $15+, with the 
average around $75.

Made life a lot simpler. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Medinnus -> (fafhrd@lunacity.com)
                                LunaCity BBS - Mountain View, CA 415 968 8140
From: lamont@sp1.cup.hp.com (LaMont Jones)
Subject: Re: 10-Fan Quorum and like that
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 01:19:15 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1lj PL8]

Dan'l DanehyOakes (djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM) wrote:
: In article <1992Dec17.113741.1@fnala.fnal.gov> higgins@fnala.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes:
: >In article <1992Dec17.012352.3561@nic.csu.net>, shogun@sutro.SFSU.EDU (Mike M. Tatsugawa) writes:

: >> For obvious reasons, we can't advertise what will be shown at the con.
: >Wrong.  The reasons aren't obvious to me.

: Simple.  If they advertised what would be shown, the companies which owned the
: copyrights to those films might find out that they were being shown at a 
: function for which attendance was being charged -- in effect, a film festival.

: You know that "FBI Warning" at the beginning of all the videos you rent or
: buy?
: If you haven't ever bothered reading it, it says you can't charge admission
: to watch the damn thing.

: The studios take this stuff seriously, kiddies, and one day some concom is
: going to find itself with one _whopping_ lawsuit on its furry little paws.

Of course, if you approach the studios correctly, they will frequently give
permission.  This is what Silicon 92 did, and Anime America is doing.

lamont
From: mvp@netcom.com (Mike Van Pelt)
Subject: Re: 10-Fan Quorum and like that
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 02:04:07 GMT

In article <BzFL03.GL1@cup.hp.com> lamont@sp1.cup.hp.com (LaMont Jones) writes:
>Dan'l DanehyOakes (djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM) wrote:
>: The studios take this stuff seriously, kiddies, and one day some concom is
>: going to find itself with one _whopping_ lawsuit on its furry little paws.
>
>Of course, if you approach the studios correctly, they will frequently give
>permission.  This is what Silicon 92 did, and Anime America is doing.

That's also what BayCon did, and the studios said $250 per film per showing.

Period.  No options, no alternatives.  $250 per film per showing.

That's why BayCon had no film film program this year.

-- 
Mike Van Pelt          | What happens if a big asteroid hits Earth?
mvp@netcom.com         | Judging from realistic simulations involving a
                       | sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we
                       | can assume it will be pretty bad. -- Dave Barry
From: fafhrd@lunacity.com (David Medinnus)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Boskone is evil(was Re: Boskone Art Show (was Re: Hello Confranc
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 13:56:03 PST
Organization: LunaCity BBS - (Clan Zen Relay Network) Mountain View, CA

higgins@fnalo.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes:

> In article <gycRVB2w165w@lunacity.com>, mwallis@lunacity.com (Michael Wallis)
> > ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) writes:
> >> Boskone is not evil
> >> because they don't do everything for everyone--they're realistic as to
> >> what they can and can't do.  Better they do what they do well than they
> >> overextend themselves and end up pleasing no one.
> > 
> > None of this is "evil". 
> 
> We should keep in mind that Boskone *is* evil.  QX!
> 
>                                Bill Higgins
>                                not speaking for Boskone or Fermilab
>                                higgins@fnal.fnal.gov

According to Doc Smith, anyway.....:>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Medinnus -> (fafhrd@lunacity.com)
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Boskone is evil(was Re: Boskone Art Show (was Re: Hello Confrancisco?))
Date: 15 Dec 1992 21:05:39 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: gondolin.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Dec15.131302.1@fnalo.fnal.gov> higgins@fnalo.fnal.gov  
(Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes:
> > None of this is "evil". 
> 
> We should keep in mind that Boskone *is* evil.  QX!

No, no, you have it all wrong. As Tony Lewis is fond of 
pointing out, Boskone was the good guys, opposing the evil
fascist Arisians, who were going about trying to impose 
their idea of order on everyone. 

--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: aahz@netcom.com (Mean Green Dancing Machine)
Subject: Re: Arisia vs. Boskone
Organization: Don't blame me, I voted for Bill 'n' Opus
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:24:54 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.055239.16813@netcom.com> figmo@netcom.com (Lynn Gold) writes:
>
>Not being familiar with east coast fan politics, what IS the
>difference between Arisia and Boskone (other than their names, dates,
>and locations)?  What is the "battle" all about?

Boskone doesn't allow mail-in art.


;-) <-- for the humor-impaired
-- 
                         --- Aahz (the *other* Dan Bernstein)
                             @netcom.com 

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

"Would you like some toast?!"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: ratinox@kappa.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri)
Subject: Re: Arisia vs. Boskone
X-Posting-Software: GNUS 3.14.1 [ NNTP-based News Reader for GNU Emacs ]
Reply-To: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
X-Signature-Virus-Protection: Version 1.51
X-Get-A-Clue: Have two, they're small.
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:22:34 GMT

>>>>> On Wed, 16 Dec 1992 05:52:39 GMT, figmo@netcom.com (Lynn Gold) said:

Lynn> There are two cons in the Boston area in the winter.

Lynn> Apparently, there's some kind of rivalry between them, based on the
Lynn> msgs I've seen.

Lynn> Not being familiar with east coast fan politics, what IS the
Lynn> difference between Arisia and Boskone (other than their names, dates,
Lynn> and locations)?  What is the "battle" all about?

A number of years ago, at a Boskone, a significant number of the attendees
trashed the hotel. From that weekend, SF cons have had bad reputations,
Boskone in particular (which moved out to Springfield). Arisia is
rebuilding fandom's good reputation, the one Boskone almost totally ruined.

--Rat
||||| | | | |  |  |  |   |   |    |    |    |   |   |  |  |  |  | | | | | |||||
Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat          ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
Sleep with one eye open/Gripping your pillow tight...
Exit: Light/Enter: Night/Take my hand/We're off to Never-Never Land
                                                     --Metallica, Enter Sandman
From: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM (Janice Gelb)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Boskone Art Show (was Re: Hello Confran
Date: 14 Dec 1992 23:15:50 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: marvin

In article gycRVB2w165w@lunacity.com, mwallis@lunacity.com (Michael Wallis) writes:
# 
# I was not speaking to Jim in the manner of "You should change Boskone
# because it's wrong". I (had thought) we were discussing Jim's contention
# that mail-in art was too much of a problem to handle and should be
# actively discouraged from worldcons and large regionals. 
# 
# <deletions> 
# 
# Having just watched a very capable art show director be removed by various
# East Coast elements because she was deemed not "experienced" enough to
# handle a worldcon art show; and then to see Jim posting that because
# major East Coast cons couldn't handle mail-in art, that worldcons should
# discourage it, just pushed a few too many buttons. 
# 
# If Boskone wants to run things their way, that's fine. When Boskone starts
# telling everone that they have to change because there's a problem, when
# in fact there is not, THEN I have a problem.
# 

I didn't see where Jim (who I gather is now the personification of
Boskone? :-# ) was telling everyone else that they have to change -- he
had stated that mail-ins are discouraged for various reasons and then
explained why, as the excerpted posts below show. You are posting your 
opinion of what major con art shows can handle, and he is posting his. 
I think you're confusing the people who have been involved with the 
ConFrancisco art show with someone on the net who is expressing his 
opinion on a topic.

In article 1g7l6dINN9f0@transfer.stratus.com, jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann) writes:
##  
##  But there are good reasons for discouraging mail-ins (or, put
##  another way, giving preference to artists who can be there to
##  hang up their own work).
##  
##  <deletions> 
## 
## The problem is: at the critical time, we don't have the people
## to do the work.  Precon, the Art Show staff is too busy to hang
## up lots of mail-in art. Post con, there is tear down and
## lots of bookkeeping to do.
## 
## By the way, I do somewhat agree with you for small shows, that don't
## fill up, and where we are talking about a half dozen packages
## of mail-in art. But for big shows, where the show does fill up and
## have a waiting list, and where the number of mail-ins, if we allowed
## it, could be 40 or 50, this just isn't feasible.
## 


********************************************************************************
Janice Gelb                  | (415) 336-7075     
janiceg@marvin.eng.sun.com   | "A silly message but mine own" (not Sun's!) 
********************************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: figmo@netcom.com (Lynn Gold)
Subject: Arisia vs. Boskone
Summary: What's the fight all about?
Organization: The Burn the Candle at Both Ends Club
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 05:52:39 GMT

There are two cons in the Boston area in the winter.

Apparently, there's some kind of rivalry between them, based on the
msgs I've seen.

Not being familiar with east coast fan politics, what IS the
difference between Arisia and Boskone (other than their names, dates,
and locations)?  What is the "battle" all about?

--Lynn
(I want the concession business when the "fights" break out!)
From: dagibbs@quantum.on.ca (David Gibbs)
Subject: Confusion: need hotel info
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 20:48:40 GMT
Organization: Quantum Software Systems


I am going to (Transcendental) Confusion this January (22-24), and I
was wondering if anyone might have a phone number (1-800 preferable,
especially if usable in Canada) for the hotel.  (The hotel is:
Days Hotel, Southfield Michigan.)

Thanks,
-David
(dagibbs@quantum.qnx.com)
From: "joe markovic" <joe.markovic@canrem.com>
Subject: Confusion: need hotel info
Reply-To: "joe markovic" <joe.markovic@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 19 Dec 92 23:46:28 EST


DG>I am going to (Transcendental) Confusion this January (22-24), and I
DG>was wondering if anyone might have a phone number (1-800 preferable,
DG>especially if usable in Canada) for the hotel.  (The hotel is:
DG>Days Hotel, Southfield Michigan.)
DG>
DG>Thanks,
DG>-David
DG>(dagibbs@quantum.qnx.com)

The number is 1-800-325-2525, I found it in the white pages for Toronto.

BTW, availability appears to be limited.


ciao, Joe
---
  DeLuxe/386 1.25 #10044  Thank you for pressing the self destruct button.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: higgins@fnalo.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Boskone is evil(was Re: Boskone Art Show (was Re: Hello Confrancisco?))
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:13:02 GMT
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: fnalo.fnal.gov

In article <gycRVB2w165w@lunacity.com>, mwallis@lunacity.com (Michael Wallis) writes:
> ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) writes:
>> Boskone is not evil
>> because they don't do everything for everyone--they're realistic as to
>> what they can and can't do.  Better they do what they do well than they
>> overextend themselves and end up pleasing no one.
> 
> None of this is "evil". 

We should keep in mind that Boskone *is* evil.  QX!

                               Bill Higgins
                               not speaking for Boskone or Fermilab
                               higgins@fnal.fnal.gov
From: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM (Janice Gelb)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Convention Diversity (Re: Arisia vs. Bo
Date: 18 Dec 92 18:19:21 GMT
Reply-To: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: marvin

In article 1447@conan.edsr.eds.com, jat@edsr.eds.com (Jon A. Turner) writes:
# At the risk of offending--not my intention--there's a little
# more to the story.
# 
# I attended Boskone from 1985 to 1990 (after which I had to move
# to Texas. Grump.), which means I was at The Boskone From Hell;
# indeed, at the end thereof I joined in the free-for-all--er,
# panel--about the subsequent New Boskone, with Laurie Mann
# officiating. The originators of the Arisia concept were/are good 
# friends of mine, mostly from western Massachusetts. While my comments 
# ARE IN NO WAY OFFICIAL, therefore, I think I have a pretty good
# perspective on events.
# 
# I'm not going to rehash the substance of the "refocusing Boskone"
# Donnybrook. However, Arisia arose--at least in part--from unhap-
# piness with the *style* in which the change was made. For instance:
# I was, at the time, an official at the UMass Science Fiction Society,
# and I know several people who sent politely worded correspondence
# to NESFA expressing their concerns. The replies they got were,
# one and all, rude. Or worse.
# 
# There were other examples; but,as I said, my intention is neither 
# to flame nor to dig up old grievances nor to rehash the debate. 
# However, if you're looking for an explanation for the "Arisia" name 
# and the sometimes-confrontational attitude, I think that these un-
# fortunate episodes had a lot to do with it.
# 

Well, if your intention is not to dig up old grievances or rehash 
the debate, you've picked (as they say in Texas) a piss-poor way 
of doing it.

You've accused NESFA of sending back rude correspondence and using 
inappropriate style in changing Boskone but haven't provided any
details. "Rude" and "style" are in the eye of the beholder, and without
concrete examples of either these are just insinuations, not an
explanation.

********************************************************************************
Janice Gelb                  | (415) 336-7075     
janiceg@marvin.eng.sun.com   | "A silly message but mine own" (not Sun's!) 
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: ratinox@iota.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri)
Subject: Re: Arisia vs. Boskone
X-Posting-Software: GNUS 3.14.1 [ NNTP-based News Reader for GNU Emacs ]
Reply-To: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
X-Signature-Virus-Protection: Version 1.51
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Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
	<1go29bINNbik@transfer.stratus.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:04:04 GMT

>>>>> On 16 Dec 1992 20:07:07 GMT, jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim
>>>>> Mann) said:

Jim> Also, your "from that weekend, SF cons have had bad reputations"
Jim> doesn't fit in with reality in two ways.

That should be qualified: in the Boston area.

Jim> Boskone was neither the first nor the last con to melt-down (often due
Jim> to growing too large).

One of the reasons (maybe the primary reason) that Arisia has a membership
limit of 1500-2000.

--Rat
||||| | | | |  |  |  |   |   |    |    |    |   |   |  |  |  |  | | | | | |||||
Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat          ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
There are very few personal problems which cannot be solved with a suitable
application of high explosives.
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Arisia vs. Boskone
Date: 16 Dec 1992 20:07:07 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: gondolin.pubs.stratus.com

In article <RATINOX.92Dec16132144@kappa.coe.northeastern.edu>  
ratinox@kappa.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri) writes:
> A number of years ago, at a Boskone, a significant number of the  
attendees
> trashed the hotel. From that weekend, SF cons have had bad  
reputations,
> Boskone in particular (which moved out to Springfield). Arisia is
> rebuilding fandom's good reputation, the one Boskone almost totally  
ruined.
> 

To be fair to the attendees of that Boskone: it was not a 
significant number of the attendees who caused problems. It was
actually a very small number. However, when the size of a convention 
reaches 4000+ people, even a small percentage of the attendees 
causing problems can cause a real mess. Most of the fans
responded well to the problems. Most of the problems occured
on Friday night. By Saturday, we had numerous fans (ones
who don't usually work on cons) stopping by the Boskone Office
to volunteer to help on party patrol to stop further problems.

Also, your "from that weekend, SF cons have had bad reputations"
doesn't fit in with reality in two ways.  Boskone was neither
the first nor the last con to melt-down (often due to 
growing too large).  This happened to Balticon, Disclave (to
a degree), Lunacon, and some of the west coast cons.  However,
none of these destroyed the reputation of SF cons, which have
always had mixed reputations (hotels by and large both like
and don't like us, for a large number of reasons).  

--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom