From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:59:41 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Aug19.064650.22857@europa.lonestar.org> tom@europa.lonestar.org (Tom Kimball) writes:
>
>In article <Bt4pp3.Dq@apollo.hp.com> nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug14.172502.183@europa.lonestar.org> tom@europa.lonestar.org (Tom Kimball) writes:
>>>In article <BsvrJ5.4Fu@apollo.hp.com> nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:
>>>>   all that --  SOMEONE has to pay for that European employee's wages
>>>>   when he's partying on the coast of Spain or fishing in some lake
>>>
>>>I think this is too simplistic a view.  For one thing, many (most?) Americans
>>>would be glad to trade some of their earnings for more vacation time. 
>>
>> I agree that some might.  But I don't think it's that widespread.  Most
>> people I know who are self-employed (i.e., those who actually have a
>> choice in the matter) work LONGER hours than those working for others.  
>
>Everyone I know complains they don't have enough spare time.  My impression is
>that a large portion of Americans, quite possibly the majority, want more 
>vacation time.

   Sure, even me!   All I'm objecting to is the idea that HP (my employer)
   should have to pay for it.  I think it would be great if we all agreed
   to work, say, 35 hours a week, in exchange for a pay+benefits cut of 
   about 12 or 13%    This would allow companies to hire more people so 
   they could get the same work done, and so would help the unemployment
   rate.  I could get by quite comfortably on such a pay cut and I could
   certainly use the time.   But it ain't gonna happen.   And I object to
   the idea of unions or government forcing companies to do things like
   this.

 
>>  If this is true then why are the two most productive nations on earth 
>>  (unit output per man hour -- source: Economist Dec 18, 1991) Japan and
>>  the US -- which also have the least vacation time?
>
>Some points:
>1. The Japanese get 50% more vacation time than Americans!!  (3 wks vs 2 wks)

  The Japanese average 2100 working hours a year versus 2050 in the US
  (source: OECD) 


>2. The American economy is in far worse shape than most people realize, due
>   to the federal budget deficit. :-(  This will drag down productivity.

   Huh?   What does this have to do with vacation time?   Or even
   productivity?   Take a look at the Japanese government budget
   deficit sometime; it's no stroll in the park, either.


>3. You have overlooked the possibilty that countries may be productive in
>   spite of rather than because of low vacation rates.  As a contrary example
>   take Germany.  They work 36 hrs/week with 6 weeks vacation/yr, and they
>   are one of the most productive nations in the world.  Before they absorbed
>   East Germany, their economy was in much better shape than the U.S.

   Really?  Let's see some numbers.   Even before the Wall came down they
   had a chronic unemployment rate higher than our recessionary one
   and industrial output per man hour was (and still is) lower than ours.
   Moreover, according to The Economist, not only was/is their productivity
   growth lower than the US and Japan, it was lower than France or the UK's!


  
>If we do get more vacation time and it turns out that every worker gets less
>work done as a result, then we can assume our earnings won't rise as much as 
>they would have, in order to compensate.
  
    These days lots of comanies don't even HAVE earnings!  


>Companies will have more money to hire workers and -- guess what?  We won't 
>have to pay as many people not to work.

    We don't pay people not to work now.   Unemployment is employer-paid
    and there is no welfare for unemployed adults without children.  In
    Europe what you say would be true since they have more extensive wel-
    fare programs.

>Obviously, the only way to produce your evidence is to go ahead and do it.

    OK, do it in your state and write to tell us how it works out.


>The Europeans get 6 weeks/yr vacation to Americans 2 weeks/yr.  It may be
>that they earn a little less because of this, but their lives are richer
>as a result.  [In fact, 3 times as rich as Americans]

    Are you sure you don't mean "expensive"?   Last time I was in Europe
    some things seemed 3 times as expensive.   What is your metric? 



---peter


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