Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 02:37:06 EDT
From: <PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu>  Andronikos Romanos
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.turkish
Subject: To M.Hubey (On the name of Constantinople etc)


Dear Mark,

I remember Ibn Battutah and he deserved to be more famous... Africa was
a mystery as much as the Far East...
I understand that the two names you give are based on the "Is-tan-poli"
and "Constantinople" as Carl E. Grigorian  (ceg@dec-4.CE.Berkeley.EDU)
observed. There is no real dispute. Is there?

I actually agree partially with your proposal of probably changing some
names, to avoid confusion. You say that the Greek Government should ask
for it. Did the Bulgarian or the Ethiopian do the same thing?
Tell me something though: Do you extend this from Yunanistan (Hellas) &
Dedeagac (Alexandroupolis), to Constantinople which was the "isssue"?

Here are my "academic" objections:
(Just to discuss something other than killings)
--> "Yunanistan" is wrong  for it deals with the Greek subgroup of "Io-
    nes". I would be less resistant to "Rumeli" & "Rums" if these terms
    do not have an insulting meaning among the Turks for the simple re-
    ason that the Greeks too use them for themselves. Actually,it would
    be nice to have some one else using it also and it would not requi-
    re the Turks to go to extreme lengths in assimilating the "Ellines"
    :-) Any vocal "proximity" to my last name is purely coincidental :-)
--> I do not think that Istanbul should change. I do not think you ever
    meant to convey such an impression but  I am not  entirely sure for
    your proposition came after this particular discussion of mine:
    1. The Turks are now familiar  with this term even though they used
       both in the past rather widely.
    2. Yet the Greeks have a small problem in certain uses of the term.
       I will ask you to believe my next sentence in good, (the best!)
       faith and do not assign "imperialistic dreams" whenever the word
       Constantinople or Byzantium,even New Rome is used by the Greeks.
       Trust me only for a single minute as I go on:
       Here is the problem with the words "Is-tan-pol(i)". It means "to
       -the-Town" and it seems unnatural to say "I will go to visit <to
       the Town>", " My father comes from <to the Town>",  "The cruiser
       travelled through Marmara and I saw the city of <to the Town>".
       That's why they say:"I saw Byzantio" or "I saw the Town (Polis)"
       or "I saw the Town of Constantine (Constantinou Polis)".
--> I don't know how one may understand the example of an Arab saying:
       "The Al-gebra.." Is this accurate in conveying what I'm trying
       to explain?
--> Yet, there is a particular sentence that suits the Greek meaning of
    the word & it has to do with Mailing: Whenever the Greeks write "Is
    tan-Poli" (to the Town) on the Envelope they use the term accurate-
    ly in their language and there shouldn't be a problem whatsoever a-
    mong people & the mailing authorities.  In that case they shouldn't
    feel funny at all... The sent the envelop to the Town !
--> I am not trying to make a case for the Supreme Court... I am simply
    expressing the cause/source of  the  problem  that troubles so many
    distinguished netters  attributing  ALL  sort of intentions to each
    other's words.

Boy, the mistrust has never left... And some still believe that the two
people are capable of coexisting in Europe, the Balkans or Cyprus or...
Hell !
                                                     Andronikos Romanos