HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rob@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: thread runners
Date: 13 Nov 92 10:42:47 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

what I and everyone I know thinks a thread runner is, is tape (sometimes
a small wire) inserted around a natural chockstone and the two ends 
connected by a biner. Of course it can also be around a rock with leaning
against another block, or sometime on limestone (where small wires can be used)
little pockets which still have some of teh front face in tact, the tape/wire
is threaded in one side and out the other. Broddlers(nut-keys) are useful
for placing these.


You shouldnt have to tie any knots, this may be difficult on the lead.
Big tapes are useful for setting up thread belays on top of many crags.

Hope this helps.

Rob.

................................................................................
 Rob Stone, Dept of Psychology, University of York, YORK. YO1 5DD.  UK.
         rob@minster.york.ac.uk      Phone/Fax   +44 904 433160
         "I love lard;  Hands up if you like lard"  Emerson Lake 
................................................................................
From: j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Elison)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:05:03 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Re: No More Write-Ups?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing


I'll add one more worthless post:

> >Rainer M. Malzbender writes: I have nothing against California
> > or Colorado climbers (the French are better than both, anyway :-) :-)
> 
> Thats not quite true: The german Stefan Glowazc won the last worlcup competiton
> and SWISS Susi Good is still world Champion ;^)  ;^)
> 
> Erich Ruetsche

Not for long.  According to a recent magazine, Robin Erbesfield has won
5 out of 6 World Cup comps this year!!!  Pretty amazing!

Mort
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 12:13:41 EST
From: jim bowers <FQV@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Help in chosing shoes.

In article <1992Nov5.132253.8440@iscsvax.uni.edu>, jacobson5821@iscsvax.uni.edu
says:
>
>It seems no one answered my request for advice on climbing shows.  After
>ascending a 5.9 in hiking boots I realized that climbing shoes are a must.  I
>have looked at some 5.10's in last springs REI magazine for $99.  Do you think
>that I would be satisfied with them.  Also, is it worth investing in 5.10's
>since you can buy a resoling kit?  I will be climbing limestone bluffs
>with quite a few cracks, pockets and overhangs.
>

 For Limestone you just can't beat a pair of slippers such as the
 Boreal Lasers.  These are also quite cheap, I think Feathered Friends
 was selling them for $80.

 These will go a long time without a resole.

               Jim Bowers

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: nelsonm@owlnet.rice.edu (Mark James Nelson)
Subject: Re: who owns the bolts?
Organization: Rice University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 17:26:03 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.163224.60507@cc.usu.edu> sinclair@cc.usu.edu (Bob Sinclair) writes:
>Ownership implies responsibility which implies liability...

What is wrong with the "bolts become part of the rock" point of view?

Ownership does not imply responsibility for natural disasters, like
a handhold pulling off or the like.  If considered a part of the rock,
bolt failure would fall into the same category.

Also, this would clear up any ambiguity about placing unapproved bolts
or chopping existing bolts:  both acts would be vandalism of the rock
itself.

I'm sure this idea is not original; has the forest service (or any other
landowner, for that matter) raised any valid objections to it?

Just curious.

--Mark

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From: Gen.M.Kanai@dartmouth.edu (Gen M. Kanai)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Light and warm sythetic bag: PARADOX?
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:55:38 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

I figure this newsgroup is the best place to start.

I am looking for a light and warm synthetic sleeping bag, and I think
that this might be a paradox.  Everyone knows that down is light,
compactable and warm, but sucks when wet.  

I am considering the "Gold-Eck" bags sold by Mountain Tools, but I have
no idea how good they are.  Does anyone on the net have any experience
or heard second or even third hand info on these bags?

My requirements are -20 degrees, long, not necessarily Gore-Tex, but
synthetic and lightweight!  For instance, the North Face Tangerine
Dream is a nice bag, but it weighs 8-9 lbs!  I dont want anything that
heavy or extreme. 

Can anyone tell me what fill they like and why?  Does anyone have a
good idea for me?  How about bivy bags?

thanks in advance, 
Gen.Kanai@Dartmouth.EDU
From: tpm@ecs (TP Monks)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Fall Factor II
Date: 5 Nov 92 12:00:01 GMT

mzp24@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Marshall Pease) writes:


>Actually a bigger fall *still* takes longer, science notwithstanding.
>Longer falling, longer stopping.  From the rope's point of view:
>more time to stretch, probably will stretch further?  I would 
>think.  Therefore more gentle stop, a big fall is actually
>*easier* than a small one!  meaning peak force might be a tad
>less. On the other hand, peak force will go on for longer, so
>if stuff is deforming under the load it will have longer to get 
>to a point of catastrophic (really!) failure: webbing tearing,
>friends skiding, guts twisting. 

huh?

The potential energy when you fall is mass*gravity*height, so consider
taking a factor 1 fall:
Falling 10m will give you rope 10 times more energy to absorb than falling 
1m, but you'll also have 10 times more rope out to absorb it, so
the energy that each cm of rope absorbs is always the same, 
and the rate of deceleration is the same.
This means that although you prefer the 1m fall, your rope couldn't care
either way.  (Unless of course you reach terminal velocity first!)


>Yet another point: the statement has been made that the pain to 
>the rope depends only on "the weight (or mass) of the faller times
>the fall factor", so a 200 pounder taking a factor 1 fall is
>the same as a 100 pounder taking a factor 2 fall, etc.  
                                                                                                                                 
True, but I reckon the only useful lesson to be learned from fall factors 
is NEVER to take a factor 2 fall.  
The maths is all very well, but the REAL implication of taking a 
factor 2 fall is that you're falling past your belayer before 
getting any gear in, so not only do you get the horrors
of the factor 2 fall, but your are pulling directly *down* on your belay 
rather than up, so that your buddy's weight isn't helping to save the belay,
but is helping to pull it apart, and furthermore there is no gear for the 
rope to run through to add friction and absorb energy.

When taking a factor 2 you easily get over 2.5 tons of force, and thats
when your gear starts to break, so at least clip the top runner of the 
belay as you lead off on that second pitch (or 14th or whatever for you 
fortunate Yanks...).

Tim

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Monks                                Vision, Speech and Signal Processing
tpm@ecs.soton.ac.uk                                    Southampton University
Tel: +44 (703) 592774                                   Fax: +44 (703) 592895
From: rickh@ems.cdc.com (Richard Herwig)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Climbing Movies
Date: 6 Nov 92 13:51:37 GMT
Organization: Empros Systems International, a division of CDC

Where can I get some climbing movies?  Not the -how to- kind,
the -adventure- kind.  Every climbing author talks about a movie
being made.  Where can I find these -doccumentary- films?

TANKS
m00se

 Richard F. Herwig              | 
 EMPROS Systems International   |  "That's a fact.  The protesters 
 Plymouth, MN 55441  USA PLY06  |    prolonged the war."
 email: rickh@ems.cdc.com       |                       H. Ross Perot
From: gray@rz-berlin.mpg.de (Struan Gray)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Fanny Bullock-Workman waffle
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:18:16 +0100
Organization: Rechenzentrum MPG Berlin

  Uh-oh, Wayne and Bobbie are calling my bluff on Fanny.  First off,
let me recommend a library for real information.  What follows is
vague stuff that's been floating around my head since investigating
early explorers on the Biafo Glacier several years ago.  Now that
someone has asked for hard info I've realised how little I really
know!

  Fanny Bullock-Workman and her husband (William, I think) spent
several (four or five) summers in the Karakoram, exploring, mapping
and climbing.  They certainly covered the Hispar, Biafo and Baltoro
Glaciers and wrote books about all three.  I believe this was pre-WWI
but my memory for dates is almost as bad as my memory for names.
Certainly pre-WWII, and if asked to guess, I would plump for 1910
or thereabouts.

  The important thing is that the B-Ws acheived a phenomenal amount,
and largely at the instigation of Fanny, who was a radical feminist.
When making the second crossing of the Hispar Pass (Conway got there
first) they climbed a 18-19,000 foot peak, planting a banner on the 
top that demanded votes for women.  I don't know how much the feminism
was to blame for the almost total lack of discussion of her achievements
in subsequent years, but she would certainly not have appealed to the
'easy day for a lady' bunch running alpine clubs at the time.  Even
as modern a gent as Stephen Venables talks about her "dragging her
long-suffering husband all over the Karakoram." I know that she
did lecture in the states about her expeditions, and I believe that
was how she funded them.  The B-Ws were not the first (westerners)
to traverse these glaciers, but in terms of total ground covered they
are way out in front.

  As for the books, they are certainly out of print.  I read two of
them in the rare books room of Cambridge (U.K.) University Library.
The style is somewhat sensational (but then the self-deprecating
explorer book had not yet appeared as a genre, and she was after
money for the next trip), and is, for want of a better word, "strident."
It is best to keep in mind what she was fighting for, and the power
of the male establishment at the time.  The books do have photo
plates showing all sorts of inaccessible corners of the Karakoram.

  Sorry to be so vague.  I posted the question in the hope of learning
more about the B-Ws myself, since I no-longer have access to an
enormous, english-language library.  Perhaps a friendly net.expert
can correct the errors given above and tell us more.  The surname
is not exactly common, so it shouldn't be too hard to track down
something.

Struan
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: rainer@spot.Colorado.EDU (Rainer Malzbender)
Subject: Re: No More Wright-Ups?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 05:00:18 GMT

In article <0096335F.1D97DD80@Msu.oscs.montana.edu> uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu writes:
>
>Just finished reading the "Eldo" write up.  A few comments;
>
>(1)  Yes, Bill, unfortunately there does seem to be a bit of an anti-
>Californian sentiment in the Boulder area.  No idea why.

Well, here are the reasons:

	1. Californians have this attitude problem about Yosemite, even though
	   Kor proved during his trips to "the valley" in the sixties that
	   Colorado climbers reign supreme. And, to tell the truth, we
	   (well, they, really) are a bit insecure in that belief, what
	   with Robbins, Rearick, Collins and others plucking many of our
	   jewels out from under our very noses.

	2. Californians in Boulder come in several varieties:
		a. People that sell their $400,000  1000 sq. ft. condo in
		   Newport Beach and buy a mansion in Boulder.
		b. Blond(e) student occupants of BMW's with more money
		   than sense.
		c. Bob Tilton followers.

	3. They have polluted the local culture with cries of "dude" and
	   "rad" and advocate the wearing of ridiculously expensive
	   black sunglasses even on cloudy days. Surfing is surfing,
	   and climbing is not.

	I forget what 4-10 are.

>(2)  Nearly decking off pitch one of Touch-and-Go seems a near universal
>phenomenon.

On a slightly less humorous note, my (ex-)partner once *did* ground off pitch
1 of T&G. Unfortunately for my reputation as a belayer, he was seconding and
I was belaying. Might have something to do with why he stopped climbing.
I had just gotten to that uncomfortable band atop pitch 1 (before I
knew you could do pitches 1 & 2 together) where I decided to just slap
on a hip belay since he had our only belay device. Bad move. He peeled
off about a third of the way up, and the rope proceeded to cut two thick
grooves into both of my hands. Fortunately the friction provided by my
searing tissue was enough to gently ease him to the ground with barely
a thud. (I should have mentioned that he was overweight at about 220 lbs.)
With blood dripping down my hands I soloed the rest of the climb ... no,
wait, that's not true -- I bailed off.


-- 
Rainer Malzbender       The Flint Blood Bank is only open on Mondays, Tuesdays,
Fyzzicks                      Wednesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays. Saturday and
U. of Colorado, Boulder                                  Sunday they're closed.
From: nicolas@stam.nl (Nico Veenkamp)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Tim Valentijn
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 07:54:38 CET
Organization: Stam Tijdschriften bv, Rijswijk, The Netherlands

I am looking for Tim Valentijn. He's a dutch friend of mine who moved to 
Houston earlier this year. As he is also into climbing some of the 
net.readers might even have met him. I don't have his current address or 
telephone number. So if any of you know him please e-mail me.


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Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: tilley@fsf.UUCP (Tom Tilley)
Subject: Re: Law Suits!!
Reply-To: tilley@sunfse.ese.lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: LMSC, Sunnyvale
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 23:08:46 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.214647.2612@news.mentorg.com> sshostek@sshostek.mentorg.com (Steve Shostek) writes:
>All this talk about law suits reminds me of a quote from the Idaho Law
>Review that was on a postcard I received from a climbing friend in Alaska...
>
>
>"A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own... let
>them take risks, for Godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, 
>drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches- that is the right
>and privilege of any free American."
>
>   -- 16 Idaho Law Review 407, 420 - 1980.

Unless my brain has failed completely, the author of these words is Edward
Abbey (in "Desert Solitare").


Tom.
#--------------------------------------------------#
| Tom Tilley                                       |
| Internet : tilley@sunfse.ese.lmsc.lockheed.com   |
From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: RElearning to lead
Date: 11 Nov 1992 00:43:19 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver-248

In article <1dov62INNf4a@morrow.stanford.edu> AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>friend on her first couple of leads.  She asked me to choose routes
>with no fixed pro since her longer tern interests involve alpinism
>where fixed equipment is rare to non-existant.

I guess it all depends where you climb.  In Chamonix, where many believe
alpinism was born, some of the routes have so much fixed pro they are
almost like sport routes!!!!!

Bruce
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: bruceg@Cadence.COM (Bruce Gustifson)
Subject: Re: IMAX theaters 
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:35:27 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.051952.1877@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> sgs8r@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Steve Strickland, sgs8r@virginia.edu) writes:
>Biographical footnote for newer climbers:
>
>Tony Yaniro (climbing buddy of Randy Leavitt from way back) established Grand
>Illusion (Lover's Leap?), widely regarded as the the first 5.13, back around
>'79 (way ahead of its time, in any case). He also did an early (if not the
>first) ascent of Sphinx Crack 5.13 (South Platte?). Anyway, he was one of the
>top climbers in the US at the time and an early non-trad. He dropped out of
>climbing for much of the 80's, but is back into it now and doing respectably in
>comps.
>
>In any case, they didn't yank this dude out of central casting!


  Grand Illusion is at Sugarloaf, which is closer to Lake Tahoe 
than the Leap. It was indeed done in '79, and is rated 13b. Yes,
this feat was WAY ahead of it's time. Just a foot note.
From: nicolas@stam.nl (Nico Veenkamp)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Law Suits!!
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 10:46:55 CET
Organization: Stam Tijdschriften bv, Rijswijk, The Netherlands

allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:

> rescue.  Personally everybody who goes out to play in the woods should
> be willing to accept the fact they might die out there due to their
> own stupidity or due to grizzly bear.  If you can not accept that fact
> then you should stay home.  I will also say that people you guide
> should make that fact very clear to their clients before accepting to
> guide them.
> 
Hear, hear.

I agree that personal responsibility is adament when 'playing out in the 
woods'. Education people on how to behave/react whatever can be a great 
lifesaver. I learned to distinguish between objective and subjective 
dangers. Subjective dangers you can counter through proper care and 
education, objective dangers you just get lucky or know how to avoid 
them.


      *================================================================*
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      *================================================================*
From: ufai@mcl.ucsb.edu (Fai Wong)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: red rocks
Summary: red rocks
Keywords: trip
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:24:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: mcl.ufai.721596295



Hello climbing dudes!

Just wanted to say that I'm going to Red Rocks this
weekend and I'm pretty happy about it.

If anyabody else is going this weekend I'll see you
there.  If not, then I won't!
From: sinclair@cc.usu.edu (Bob Sinclair)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Nicky's leap. North wales???
Date: 6 Nov 92 08:55:13 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

We were sitting in the bar last night, slurping some swill, when we saw
an advert on the TV that featured a small truck bungee jumping from (I think)
the new river gorge. That got us talking about bungee jumps, bridge jumps
and finally free fall leaps (parachuteless BASE jumping). Does anyone know
the full story behind the 'route' called Nicky's leap that was written up
in the North wales guide around 6 years ago - a jump from a high place intp
(Damn, I can't type worth beans today and cannot get back to prev line with
this editor) INTO [Phew! :-)] Padarn lake. I know several people made the
jump. I know one who was injured. Anyone know how high it is, who started it,
and so on.
On a more trivial note, (more trivial, how can I get more trivial than that?)
I wonder if there was anyone driving the truck!
Bob.
From: gustave@crowe.seas.ucla.edu (Gustave R. Stroes)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: For Sale: Plastic Doubles
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:23:25 GMT
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles

For Sale:   Scarpa Plastic Mountaineering Boots
            Size 10, Never Used!
            Lowe FootFangs, also never used.
            $250 or best offer
I bought them a little too hastily and I've finally accepted
that they just don't fit.  I would prefer to sell them together.
You can contact me by email or at (310) 826-4332.

Gustave
From: jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Law Suits!!
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:31:06 GMT
Reply-To: jreece@sousa.intel.com
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies

In article <eric.721520600@milton>, eric@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Hirst) writes:

> Tort reform would just mean Jane Individual could no longer sue Big Companies
> A & B because she would risk getting stuck with A & B's BIG legal fees if
> she lost.

I believe one plan put forth by the Quaylester limited Jane's liability for
Big Company's legal fees to the amount she spent.  
 

-- 
John Reece			"This lifeboat is full"	
Not an Intel spokesman
From: engberg@sw.stratus.com (Eric Engberg)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Law Suits!!
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:03:43 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: hoop.sw.stratus.com

The twit is dead, that's what the suit was about.  Chouniard had the deep pocket,
Bridwell and Exum's didn't; and so it goes.
From: nicolas@stam.nl (Nico Veenkamp)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: What to choose for eye protection (prescription) ...
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 11:07:52 CET
Organization: Stam Tijdschriften bv, Rijswijk, The Netherlands

jagat@gda.cadence.com (Jagat Patel) writes:

> 
>         I am looking for some opinions on choosing eye
>    protection (prescription) while climbing (against 
>    high wind and sun/snow blinding).  Are ski goggles
>    over the regular prescription glasses the way to go?
>    Is there a better way?  If not, what ski goggles
>    work the best?
> 
I use sunglasses / glacier glasses that I can put over my regular 
glasses. I find it very handy because I have threaded some cord through 
the stems so I can hang them around my neck. 


      *================================================================*
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Newsgroups: rec.climbing