Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Want facts?  "WHO RUNS THE MEDIA?  The Alarming Facts"
From: scott@anasaz (Scott Gibson)
Date: 11 Aug 92 20:48:47 GMT
Reply-To: scott@qip.UUCP (Scott Gibson)
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Az

In article <1992Aug10.235841.25334@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>
>Don't be silly, Scott.  In cases of violent crime, American police 
>routinely arrest people at home in the middle of the night.

I see.  So, when the suspects are "arrested" in their homes at night
by Israeli authorities, I assume that they have their rights read to
them?  That they are invariably permitted access to an attorney
during questioning, if they so choose?

>>When the situation deteriorates to the point where Israeli 
>>forces knowingly target innocents, in the hopes of striking a
>>disproportionately smaller number of villains, and then scold
>>any survivors for being so stupid as to get in the way, what
>>would you call it?
>
>Can you specify an incident that is similar to this in any way?

Certainly.

1)  The Israeli military carried out a military attack on an enemy
    of Israel, the target of which included his family.  The nature
    of the attack was such that no reasonable person would suggest
    the family could have survived.  Guess what I'm talking about?

2)  Defenders of Israel, in this newsgroup, routinely express the
    notion that the deaths and injuries suffered during Israeli
    shelling of villages is somewhat the fault of the innocents,
    since they do not see fit to either leave, or drive the
    enemies of Israel from their midst.  For examples, peruse
    your site's archives of this group.  In fact, I'll be sure
    to point out the next one that comes up.  Shouldn't be long.

I believe that item 1 is an instance of targetting innocents in
hopes of getting a few villains, and that item 2 refers to numerous
occurrences of the scolding.  Feel free to disagree.

>Doesn't this tell you something about Israel's efforts at minimizing
>collateral damage?  

I didn't say that Israel made no effort to minimize collateral damage;
I questioned whether they made _every_reasonable_effort_ to so do.

>You are too quick.  It isn't at all obvious that the Labor government
>will maintain it's restriction on Jewish building in the West Bank,
>certainly not if the Arabs refuse to come up with some concessions of 
>their own.

Not at all.  I don't dispute that things could change; moreover,
the current trend was not the point of my comment at all.  

The point, obviously, was that some time ago you took exception to
my belief that the Israeli government was actively encouraging 
settlement in the occupied territories, and that they were doing
so in an effort to achieve a de facto annexation of those 
territories.  Now, it appears that this was the case.  Do
you still take exception to this characterization?



-- 
But you knew your figure cut a cipher/ Through every crafted plan/ And 
playing our game for real/ Saw through our plumbing jobs/ And wayward glands/
To a meaning of your own, in bones."  - Iain M. Banks, "Use of Weapons"
Scott Gibson                   {ames!ncar!noao!asuvax,mcdphx}!anasaz!qip!scott
Disclaimer:  These opinions are my own, and may change without prior notice.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast