Organization:      LOGISTICS INFORMATION CENTER (IC-LOG)
Motto:          FIRST LINE TECHNICAL SUPPORT
Telephone:                 768-8074/8180
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 10:34:06 KST
From:         DMetcalf%IC-LOG@WALKER-LTT.ARMY.MIL
Subject:      THEORY
X-To:         allmusic%auvm.american.edu@vm1.nodak.edu
X-cc:         dmetcalf@Walker-LTT.Army.Mil

 >GOOD point, Sonia... some of MY best musical/improv moments (while in NO way
>on the same level as a Cage or a Jimi) come when NO theory is applied...
>they just COME! & that's the way "I" prefer it!
>
>ZZAJ

>hmmm.  i'm not sure you can make that kind of separation.  i mean, i dig what
>you're saying about not making a cognitive effort (my interpretation of what
>you said), but is that the same as not applying theory?  i've been in the
>studio several times this last week and each of our jam sessions has produced
>a new song.  they just formed, seemingly on their own, but i know that's not
>true.  they are products of our sub-concious, an expression of something below
>the surface.

I won't argue the point... in fact, I'm sure you're right on the mark there...
but then, you COULD extend that to ALL of life/improv, eh?... NOTHING is new,
we're just remembering (?universally?) all that's gone before... reminds me of
"deep discussions" we had back in the early-eighties (Iron Tortoise, Alabummer)
with members of Transmuseq - anybody remember THAT? - RE: automatic
play/writing!

>look at it from the other way around:  let's say someone had great technical
>skill but no theoretical background.  he picks up a guitar and... does what?
>plays some notes, but... do they belong to a certain scale?  how long does
>each note last?  is there a time signature?  are his chords the same kind you
>or i might use, or are they totally random combinations of notes?  if he has
>no musical experience to draw from, he won't have any idea how to even begin
>to express an idea, much less put together all the ideas and emotions that go
>into an entire composition.

Could this have something to do with why it's SO hard to find "improv" players
that can "hear" behind the patterns?  I agree that someone with NO technical
background/knowledge is probably not gonna' make GREAT player (either in
randomland OR in the more formal environ), but some folks WITH tunza skill
(as expressed recently on this net) have NO idea how to improv... my first wife
was VERY, VERY skilled, but take her sheets away, and she could barely play
"Chopsticks"!

>or try this angle: i could write a program that plays random tones for
>random durations, but is that music?  and even if i did write such a program,
>it would have its own "theory" in terms of the range and distribution of
>frequencies and durations.


Once again, I HAVE to agree with you in this area... I review tapes for the
little 'zine I do... many of which are various styles of improv...  they DO
all have some kind of theory supporting their non-structure... mayhaps this
ties in to some of the "chaos" theories floating 'round now!

>please, this is not a flame!  it's really a compliment.  i think that when you
>come to the place where music just comes to you naturally, it means you have
>absorbed enough "theory" so deeply that you use it without thinking about it.
>if you've ever learned a foreign language (with as much as you travel), you
>know the breaking point that comes when you actually begin using the language
>without thinking about it.  conjugating verbs and making the adjectives agree
>is no longer a task in itself, and you communicate *ideas* without being
>concious of the *media*, so to speak.

No flame-intent registered... compliment is appreciated, tho' I "really" don't
mean to imply that my playing/poetics are that great... perhaps yer point 'bout
travel/language assimilation has some real bearing on it, too... I do find
myself "slippin' into things" ever more frequently than in my early attempts...
SURELY appreciate yer feedback... keep 'em comin'!  This integration of life
into art is a VERY interesting topic for me!

ROTCOD ZZAJ
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