HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kkirksey@world.std.com (Ken B Kirksey)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: A gun in the car
Date: 19 Dec 92 00:24:16 GMT
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

In article <9212160345.AA01467@hp-vcd.vcd.hp.com> dmunroe@hpvclmun.vcd.hp.com (Dave Munroe) writes:
#
#Kevin Whyte writes:
#
#		[ stuff about shooting from inside a car ]
#
##I've thought about this a lot recently especially with the upswing in car-
##jackings.  I don't know that having a firearm in the car is going to do you
##a damn bit of good anyway.  Where would you keep it?  How could you get to it
##before the perp shoots?
#
#I agree that prevention is the best course.  Still, for those that do carry
#a gun in their car, with the feeling that they might really need it, would
#you have it:
#
#	- out in the open on the passenger seat?
#
#	- on the passenger seat, under a coat?
#
#	- under the drivers seat?
#
#	- in the glovebox?
#
#	- other?

I always leave my passenger side seatbelt latched and carry my Glock 17 in an 
Uncle Mike's holster cliped to the passenger side shoulder belt.  It's out in
plain view (as required by NC state law), doesn't slide around all over the place,
and is in position for very quick draw (even in the dark).
 
Now, we can argue whether a visible gun is a deterrent to carjacking, or
an invitation to break in and grab the gun. :)  I tend to believe the 
former.
 
 
                                  Ken

-- 
+----------------------------+------------------------------------------------+
| Ken Kirksey                | "A man cannot be too careful in his choice     |
| kkirksey@world.std.com     |  of enemies."                                  |
| The World, Brookline, MA   |                - Oscar Wilde                   |
From: cccbbs!bill.preuss@uceng.uc.EDU (Bill Preuss)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RECOIL REDUCTION
Date: 13 Dec 92 23:12:41 GMT
Organization: Cincinnati Computer Connection BBS - Cincinnati, OH - 513-752-8248

Well, I did it.  After reading two articles about drilling holes in the
top of your pistol to reduce the recoil I decided to try it.  I took my
S&W 686 with a 6" bbl and drilled 5 holes ( starting small and going
larger) into the top of the barrel.  I then counter bored (drilled)
about half way down the first holes - this gave me a step as I had no
means of drilling a conical shaped hole.  Before I did this I
chronographed some factory loads for a reference point.  The results
are: 1. A substancial reduction in muzzle flip.  2. In the dark there is
a lot of flash.  3.  A loss of velocity of about 12%.  Overall I am
pleased with the way it work out.  I did this for plate and pin
shooting for the reduced recoil which it sure does.  The disadvantages
are flash, and you cannot mount a scope on top.  If anyone else has done
this I would like to hear about your results.
Bill Preuss
From: bellcore!bae.bae.bellcore.com!wind@uunet.UU.NET (Wind Chen)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Smith & Wesson Autos
Date: 18 Dec 92 01:56:27 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research

In article <jrh.2b29689a-e@mustang.dell.com>, jrh@mustang.dell.com (Randy Howard) writes:
|> baechler@lia.di.epfl.ch (Emmanuel Baechler) writes:
|> 
|> I still am amazed at the number of people that desperately need to believe 
|> that S&W makes wonderful handguns.  The 10mm (1076) is especially poor, as the
|> FBI has had to find out the hard way.  
|> 
|> I fired a lot of rounds through a 3913 last time out, and I wasn't impressed.
|> It didn't jam on me, but the grips, the trigger pull especially, and the 
|> accuracy all were disappointing to say the least.  It seems to me that for the
|> amount of pistolsmith work required to get one of these to shoot well, you
|> could afford to go out and buy a SIG, or a Colt.  
|> 
|> I can only surmise that the popularity of S&W is due to pricing being such 
|> that a lot of people own them, and everyone loves whatever it is they decide 
|> to buy (even if deep inside they know it's a piece of junk, they can't admit 
|> it).  Another reason is probably the proliferation of bumber stickers saying 
|> something like 'This Run-Down Pickup Truck Protected by Swith & Wesson'.  
|> 
|> I don't mean to really flame S&W; FOR THE PRICE, they make a decent gun.  But,
|> for making premium handguns, they are clearly beaten by a lot of other 
|> manufacturers.  Unfortunately, some of the others are in financial trouble, 
|> because high quality guns move in radically lower volumes due to the higher
|> prices.  I don't ever stop wondering why people would by a S&W .357 magnum
|> revolver for example, with folks constantly warning "Don't shoot too much 
|> Magnum through that gun, use .38 special instead".  IMHO, if you buy a S&W
|> .357 Magnum, you should be able to fire .357MAG through it EVERY time out
|> without hurting the gone (more than any other .357 out there anyway).
|> 
|> -- 
|> Randy Howard            _o	    @'s: jrh@dell.com
|> Dell Computer Corp.     \<,	    !'s: ...!uunet!dellunix!jrh
|> ______________________()/ ()______________________________________________
|> 
I have a S&W 622, all my bullet holes stay in THE ring.  I am not S&W fan,
but my 622 is a good S&W and it worth every cent that I paid.
-- 
_/   _/ _/ _/  _/   ____/
_/  _/ _/  _/ _/   _/
_/ _/ _/   _/_/   _/
_/_/__/     _/   _/                 Wind Chen
__/ _/ _/  _/ _/ ____/ _/           wind@bae.bellcore.com
From: samsung!ulowell!ap.cl.msu.edu!root@uunet.UU.NET (Root of all evil)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9x18 Makarov
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:33:21 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University, USA

In article <Bz4Dso.DJM@news.fai.com> joec@hadar.fai.com (Joseph Chow) writes:
#
#Help!! Netters,
#
#Could someone kindly show me 
#Where to get cheap non-corrosive 9x18 Makarov ammo ?
#If there's no commercial non-corrosive 9x18 Makarov available,
#How about corrosive ones ?
#
#Couple monthes ago someone posted "Try Hanson", 
#Anybody know "Hanson"'s Addr. and Phone# ?
#
Try a gun show next time they are in town.  There seems to be one 
within 30 miles of me at least every month.  I was just at one today, and
there were guys with tables full of odd sized ammo.  They had lots of
different loads in 9*18 non corrosive, and lots of other wierd sizes.
Tom
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: M1911 vs M1911A1?
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:33:11 GMT
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma

In article <9212140128.AA24291@panix.com> justice@panix.com (Michael Justice) writes:
#For a friend:
#What are the differences between an M1911 and an M1911A1??  He's
#been told of three:  curved mainspring housing, shorter trigger,
#and longer tail on the grip safety (to prevent "hammer bites").

- The A1 has a different configuration for the ledge on the thumb safety
  (ie, the ledge the thumb pushes against) - it's longer (front to back)
  on the A1.

- The A1 has a portion of the frame near the tirgger scalloped out on each 
  side, making it easier to reach the tirgger without the inside edge of
  the finger rubbing against the frame while firing.

It's also important to note that there are numerbous A1.5's (my term) out
there - pre-A1's with some A1 parts added.

                                        rob b.
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: More newbie questions
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:19:58 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <1992Dec15.195829.18377@igor.tamri.com>, donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin) writes:
# For folks with kids, I was wondering how they handle the toy gun debate.
# I'm definitely going to take my kids to the range, as soon as they show
# interest in shooting but I'm not sure how I feel about toy guns.  Part of me
# thinks that (my) kids should not have any (that they should have no slightest
# indication that guns are toys), part of me thinks it's a non-issue.  What
# do other people out there think?
# 
# Happy holidays folks,
# 
#    don

I don't think it's wise to let your kids have toy guns.  The 
line dividing fantasy and reality is very poor for most kids
until at least 7 or 8, and a few never quite get it at all.
(Many of them teach at the university I attend, and others
work in the news media as editors.)

In addition, the sometimes excellent quality of a toy gun may
confuse a small child about whether he picking up a toy or a real
gun.  Consider something like a Jennings 22, and some of the
better pot metal cap guns.  Think about a Glock and some of the
better made plastic water guns.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
C++ is to C, as lung cancer is to lung.
From: boardman%cancer.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Bob Boardman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Blanks (was Re: 9mm shootings)
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:55:03 GMT
Organization: UNM Cancer Center

In article <9212102318.AA25465@relay1.UU.NET>,
        kennejs@a.cs.okstate.edu (KENNEDY JAMES SCOT) writes:
#
#I don't think there are any blanks that will cycle the slide on a 
#automatic pistol.  On gas operated weapons like the M16, you need a
#blank firing adapter that partially blocks the barrel.  The higher gas
#pressure can then push the bolt back without having a bullet sealing
#the barrel.  I don't see how a blank could eject enough gas at a high
#enough velocity to force the slide back on a recoil operated firearm.
#
	I still vividly remember attending a machine gun shoot a couple
  of years ago.  One participant had a beautiful MG42 with 8mm, 30-06, and
  .308 barrels.  We were shooting at a target about 900 yards away, so you
  would rip off a burst, and then look up to see where the bullets impacted
  after a second or so...  What was just about the most fun, though, was
  after he put the blank-firing adapter on the barrel and loaded it with
  a belt of 8 x 57 wood bullet blanks....  I observed that the hole in
  the blank firing adapter was only about 1/8" in diameter, so I asked him
  what happened to the 8mm wood bullets - he just grinned and handed me the
  MG42. With the blanks, holding the MG42 rambo-style at the hip was great
  fun, and never a wood splinter was found.  Apparently, the wood bullets
  are totally incinerated before reaching the blank-firing adapter.  The
  effect was that most of the burning gases exited via the flash-suppressor
  ports, so you got almost 6" long flames at the 1:30, 4:30, 7:30 and 10:30
  positions when emptying a 50-round belt on full-auto - GREAT FUN  ;-}

  -Bob

  P.S.  There was this kind of barbecued smell we noticed when firing the
        wood blanks - I guess we should have tried holding some wienies
        over the flash suppressor.....

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|**I _AM_ a member of a well-regulated militia - self-regulated, that is!!!!**|
| Bob Boardman,Albuquerque,New Mexico - NRA LIFE, NMSSA, Zia Rifle&Pistol Club|
|        internet:boardman@cancer.unm.edu    bitnet:BOARDMAN@UNMB             |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: A gun in the home....
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:33:47 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <1992Dec14.085758.22380@netcom.com>, by harp@netcom.com (Gregory O. Harp):
# gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes:
# #In general, all forms of "security through obscurity" are unsafe.
# #The best policy seems to be to educate the child properly and also
# #take reasonable, but not extreme, safety precautions such as not
# #keeping a round in battery.  Before showing the effect of a bullet
# #on a melon, it might be advisable to have the child paint a face
# #on the melon and to give it a name, let him lug the melon to the
# #range, etc.  That way he'll have developed some degree of personal
# #attachment to the melon and the demonstration will have shock
# #value rather than being viewed as just good fun.
# 
# Yeah, but the costs of putting the kid through counseling afterwards
# make this option undesireable. ;)
# 
# Don't get me wrong.  I advocate educating a kid about guns.  I just
# think shooting up their "pet" melon would be, well, traumatizing.  You
# might say, "This is why you shouldn't play with guns."  <BANG> <splat>
# "That's what can happen to a person."
# 

How about using some 2 liter pop bottles?  First take one and have the kid
hit it with a baseball bat (or other club?) as hard as he/she can, then
shoot one with a 9mm or higher pistol (I suppose rifle and shotgun could
be either substituted for or used in addition to the pistol).  I _think_
this should get the idea across.
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: erico@squirrel.pen.tek.com (Eric Oosterhof;627-4329;47-786;tekig1.pen;)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: M1911 operation
Date: 18 Dec 92 01:56:18 GMT
Organization: tektronix


In article <9212171146.aa06373@claudius.pica.army.mil>, erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:
|> 
|> A question for owner/operators of M1911 pistols:

|> So to satisfy my curiosity more than anything else, how do you drop the
|> hammer on a loaded chamber with one hand with an M1911? Or can't it be
|> done? I realize that this is not a common requirement, but I'm just
|> curious. Thanks in advance.
|> 
|> 
|> Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
|> Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
|> Geordi: "...it's like the laws of physics went right out the
|> window." Q: "And why shouldn't they? They're so inconvenient."

Decocking a 1911 with one hand:
  With the thumb of the right hand (I am assuming yer all right handed)
	pull the hammer back until it engages the grip safety.  
  Once the grip safety has been engaged, pull the trigger, and slowly 
	ease the hammer forward.

I have done this many a time, but never on a loaded cyclinder.  I have
recently decided that I am NOT going to do this, as in practicing, I have
dropped the hammer a couple of times.  Instead, I now use this 
method.  Place the thumb or index finger of your left hand between the 
frame and the hammer, pull the trigger.  Obviously the hammer will strike
your finger, at which point you can slowly roll your finger out of the way
without dropping the hammer.  Also, if you release the trigger, a 1911
style will catch on half-cock.  For me, this seems much safer, as there 
appears to be less chance of dropping the hammer onto a loaded cyclinder;
which, co-incidently enough, has a tendency to result in load noises.  

As always, be very aware of your line of fire when handling firearms.  De-
cocking pistols always makes me very nervous...

Shoot safe first, then straight.


Eric Oosterhof
erico



-- 
Eric Oosterhof                "Gentlemen, I have the utmost confidence 
erico@tekig1.PEN.TEK.COM       in your ability to perform...
(503) 627-4329                 the impossible!"  Capt. Jean-Luc Picard
"Choosy mothers choose .gif"  Anthony C. Zable
From: bz269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James D. Del Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: M1911 operation
Date: 19 Dec 92 15:20:35 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


In a previous article, barry@uts.amdahl.com (Barry Needham) says:

#Let me get this right...  A single action 1911 clone, in a minor caliber, that
#has a decocker but no manual safety.  Must have been made in Poland :-)

#Why in the world anybody would come up with that combination is beyond me.

	Well, they're pretty old.  In 1935 or whenever, those things were 
likely seen as state of the art hardware.

In Poland.

Jim Del Vecchio
From: dmunroe@hpvclmun.vcd.hp.com (Dave Munroe)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: .50 BMG bullpup
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:34:14 GMT




Brian Millin writes:

|> a tank gun or that .50BMG bullpup monster somebody just came out with.
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Glen Call writes:

#What have you heard about this?  I try to follow Barrett, but I'm not aware of
#anyone else making .50BMG weapons for the civilian market.

I'm a member of the FCSA (Fifty Caliber Shooters Association), so I've seen
more than a few.  Most common are the McMillans: the M87 and M88 single-shot
bolt actions; the Barrett 82A1 semiauto and their single shot, the M90; then
there's AMAC - a single shot with a removable bolt.  Many FCSA members use a
McMillan action on a K&P barrel.

The latest issue of their newsletter, Very High Power, arrived yesterday
and describes the new "Sugg-50" rifle - a .50 BMG bullpup.  The photo shows
a 19 year old girl (115 lbs) shooting it.  The recoil is said to be very
mild.  I always shoot my 82A1, which I think is quite mild in comparison
to the wallop you get with a McMillan.  Another photo shows the titanium and
steel breech of the Sugg-50; this is a very strong gun and, surprisingly, it
weighs only 25 lbs.

E-mail me if you want additional details.

-Dave
NRA, FCSA
From: jimfost@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Jim Foster)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: A-TEAM
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:54:01 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University

vojak@icebucket.stortek.com (Bill Vojak) writes:

#In article <9212041812.AA01730@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov>
#weed@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (daniel weed 283-4162) writes:
##BTW: despite the humongous firefights in the A-Team, can anyone recall
##anyone being hit? ever? let alone killed?
# 
# I remember hearing at the time, (I don't know how true it is),
# that Mr. T demanded that "no one be shot" by the guns since he
# didn't think kids should see that kind of violence.  Instead
# they all grew up thinking guns are harmless toys :-(

Actually, there have been a couple of wounding incidents on the A-team, both 
involving Mr. T (maybe others, these are the ones I recall) Once he got shot 
throught the arm but "it just went right through, Hannibal. I need to get it 
stiched up though." In the other he was wounded before the show took place and
spent the episode on the brink of death.

As for Steven J. Cannell, he's cetainly made up for the A-Team with Renegade.
Working guns everywhere with at least 2 firefights per episode. 


-- 
Jim Foster                [ "I am a meticulous man; when I portray baboons I  ]
jimfost@matt.ksu.ksu.edu  [  leave no stern untoned."                         ]
Kansas State University   [                        -- Ogden Nash              ]
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm reloading question
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:25:58 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <9212141533.AA00242@alaska.et.byu.edu> bigdog@bones.et.byu.edu (Dan Canfield) writes:
#Just a quick question.  My brother and I have 9mm semiautos.  His
#is a Beretta and mine a Taurus.  We have both reloaded before, but
#not 9mm, primarily rifle ammo and some .357 stuff.  I have read 
#a couple of sections in reloading manuals about reloading for the
#9mm and feel like I am ready to try it.
#
#My question is what powder is a good on to work with.  We are going
#to reloading 124gr. jacketed ball ammo for plinking.  I am just
#curious as to which powder of the several each reloading manual uses
#I should try.  What ones have you had success with.
#
Winchester-Western 231 is probably the best all-around powder for the 
9mm.  4.4 - 4.8 grains.

Also, if there is something dramatically different about reloading 9mm
#vrs .357 I would like to hear about that also.

Taper crimp.

Bill	burge@qdeck.com
From: bry@wpi.WPI.EDU (Bryant Nelson Obando)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Ranges
Date: 13 Dec 92 15:46:45 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute

Can anyone tell me of any shooting ranges which are open to the public and
offer decent rentals in the Massachusetts and New Hampshire area?  Any other
additional information which you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

bry@wpi.wpi.edu
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: SK (Chinese version of AK47)
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:21:07 GMT

#     I am thinking of getting an SK something (sorry) it is the Chinese
#version of the AK47 (11 shot clip, semi auto, 7.62 cal.) and would

That's SKS, and it has a 10 round magazine.

#    Is this really like the famed AK47?

It's what the Soviets developed before the AK-47.  They're similar
in that they fire the same round, but that's about it...

#    Am I getting a good deal?

Dealer cost on new-in-box 1992 production SKSes run about $109, so
yes, you are.  Most likely, however, you are getting a used-but-unissued
SKS.  I can't see a dealer not wanting to make a profit.


#    Can it be full auto converted?

Not legally.  However, a guy who posts on a local BBS says he has
converted some to full-auto and he posted his plans.  I took a peek
at them, and it looks like it might work.  Requires minor work on
the trigger group.

(BTW, this guy is strange - he claims that he can convert the guns (and
do other things) through loopholes in the law.  He's currently fighting
a court battle for carrying a concealed weapon, and was recently written
up in his local newspaper for going to court in full cowboy garb, including
holstered pistols.  Did any Tennessee residents hear about this?)

#    What are the chances of the value going up because of some change in
#        assault rifle laws (would it be a good investment to get one and
#        not shoot it)?

If it were restricted, you might initially see a price increase, but
I doubt it'd be much, since there's so many out there.

Rob
From: harp@netcom.com (Gregory O. Harp)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gun blast noise in a car?
Date: 18 Dec 92 13:35:38 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:

#I don't remember if this was mentioned, but I think some "defensive"
#(_real_ "defensive") driving study might be more appropriate.  

Yes, but we must be careful lest they try to ban "Assault Yugos". ;)

Actually, I'd like to see some sort of truly defensive driving taught.
Teach people how to avoid car-jackers and hot-headed drivers and you'd
probably save lots of lives.

#3.  You're driving a 2000 lb.+ (usually) blunt instrument.  It isn't too
#good for fine work, but he _will_ get out of the way.  If he doesn't, it
#just isn't his lucky day.

A car is a _very_ affective weapon.  Using it as such should be taken
as seriously as pointing a gun at someone.

That said, I fully support what Jim says.  If I felt my life was in
danger, I'd try to run the threatening person down before I'd try to
shoot him/her from within my car (not that I can carry a gun in my car
in Texas anyway :( ).

#5.  If the firearm is illegal, the Maglite (or clone) usually is legal.

In my car, I have my steering wheel lock within easy reach.  Why do
you think they give them brand names like "The Club" and "The Big
Stick"? ;) Mine is several pounds of steel or steel-alloy, and even
has a hand grip on it.  

#6.  If you must frequent dangerous neighborhoods, some Lexan (tm) window
#replacements might be worth considering (anyone know where to get these? 
#What they cost?).

This sounds interesting, but potentially very expensive.  (Based on
what _normal_ car window glass costs.)  Then again, how much value can
you place on safety?

#7.  I'm sure there are things I have forgotten.  Any other ideas would be
#welcome.  There was an article on this recently in one of the gun mags,
#alas, I forget which one.

The one thing so many people forget to do (and in fact I'm having a
hard time getting into the habit) is to LOCK THEIR DOORS when they're
driving.  If a criminal is going to break your window, he'll break
your window, but there's no point in making it easy on him.  
-- 
-----------------Greg-Harp----------------harp@netcom.com------------------
  "I think I've reached that point / Where every word that you write /
  Of every blood dark sea / And every soul black night / And every dream
  you dream me in / And every perfect free from sin / And burning eyes /
  And hearts on fire / Are just the same old song" -- The Cure