HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.rights.human
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: What is "wollian" doing in "hela.ins.cwru.edu"?
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 20:09:27 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1igmq9INN6ac@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bv652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ilan Uri Woll) writes:

>>In fact the killing of Jews by Arabs gets a lot of media coverage, whereas
>>the killing of Arabs by Jews gets rather little - maybe because it has
>>become such a commonplace occurrence.

>NOT!

Here is another one for you. Have you seen it in "HELA"?

Milliyet, 2 March 1992; Page 1.  by Altan OYMEN

  Title: 'Massacre?' OVER THERE

"There were conflicting news about the Azeri-Armenian fights in Karabag
for a long time. While the Azeri sources claimed Armenians as aggressors,
most of western press was writing just the opposite. Especially in some
French newspapers..  French Government was being  called to take action
to save 'poor Armenians' from `aggressive Azeris.'"

The voice of truth against this Forgery has come from  British newspapers.
The British journalists who went to the region told about what is
happening there.
 
Here is what Sunday Times printed on First Page with photographs:

	'ARMENIAN SOLDIERS ANNIHILATING ESCAPING FAMILIES'

A few lines from the text of the news:

	''Armenian soldiers killed more than 450 Azeris, mostly women and
	children, by bullets and bayonets. The victims were escaping from
	the attack on their cities to save their lives. Hundreds, perhaps
	thousands of people are lost or killed (..) The Massacre was realized
	in a pass where 1500 people were surrounded by Armenian soldiers,
	on wednesday morning.''

The journalist Thomas Goltz, is not only writing based on eyewitness
information, at the same time the bloody pictures of people who somehow
survived this massacre are being given. Their stories as eye-witnesses
are also included.

In this way in front of the eyes of the world public a 1992 model
`Massacre' is being presented with witnesses and documents.

The people responsible for the unfortunate events which occurred during
a world war 77 years before are no longer alive. However, the ones
responsible for this massacre are available: They are wandering around
in Karabag and its environs in the form of `Armenian Soldier.'

Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: Deportation of Palestinians
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 20:38:12 GMT

zmbenhal@netcom.com (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim) writes:


>Maybe they should ask themselves WHY they are under constant attack, could it
>be something they did (or still doing) to the palestinians?

Ah, the old blame the victim trick.

Israel was attacked in 1948 before it had a chance to do anything
other than accept the UN's lopsidedly pro-Arab partition plan.

The PLO was started in 1964, years before Judea, Samaria and Gaza were
returned to Jewish rule.
-- 
Alan H. Stein                     astein@israel.nysernet.org
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.lebanon
From: rayes@Goat.mcs.kent.edu (Sandra Rayes)
Subject: Re: Are Lebanese considered ARABS (J. LAWEN a PALESTINIAN)
Organization: Kent State University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 06:13:21 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.120312.21797@njitgw.njit.edu> elie@sensors.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad) writes:
>In article <1993Jan11.065124.26726@mcs.kent.edu> rayes@Goat.mcs.kent.edu (Sandra Rayes) writes:
>>As a westerner, listening to this back and forth between ARAB brothers
>>only makes me think 'Boy, those French colonists sure did an outstanding
>>job dividing a nation amongst itself'.
>
>..... Not the Arab brother thing again.
>
>> I know some Christian Lebanese
>>who prefer to call themselves "Phoenicians", rather than Arabs and this
>>makes me, a non-Arab, sick at heart to see the residual effects of
>>Western colonialsim still alive and well today. 
>
>.... Not the colonialist bit again.
>
No one can deny the negative effects colonialism has had on the Middle
East.  It's okay for you that there is this division because it benefits
your government, after all.  I am amused to see how everyone wiggles
with nervousness when brotherhood among Arabs is brought up.  We
must really fear them, eh? 

>>Fact is, the Lebanese,
>>regardless of religion, are Arabs and therefore have a rich history,
>>language and culture which is inspiring.  
>
>According to the State Department, Arabism is dead and is no longer a threat.
>Replaced by Islamic Fundamentalism.
>
Oh yeah?  Been to Libya recently? Read any Syrian or Iraqi Baathist lit?
Besides, I am not talking about Arabism.  Arabism is adopted from 
nationalism (a Western concept).  Arabism is trash, pure and simple.
What I am talking about is people who are so defeated and have so bad
a case of an inferiority complex, that they deny their heritage and 
pretend to be something else.  You call pride in your heritage  a right,
yet if someone suggests this for Arabs, it becomes an "-ism" and something
bad. You can call it whatever you want.

For me, I hope those self-hating Lebanese Arabs will pick up a book of 
Arabic poetry written a thousand years ago, or perhaps listen to a 
tape of classic Fairuz and remind themselves that they have nothing 
to be ashamed of.  I also hope they all become Muslims.


>>Yes, and this while Christian Phalangists supported by many of those 
>>"Phoenicians" were conspiring with the Israeli military to murder
>>and expel Arabs and weaken the Muslims in Lebanon.
>
>You sound as pathetic as Mr. Lawen or jle.
>
The pot calling the kettle black...

>>Sandra.
>
>Example of Arab brotherhood: Arafat & King Hussein :-) 
>"The kiss and make up guys!" (tm)
>
That's the beauty of it!

Sandra.

>Elie.
>
>--
>
>                                 ________
>________________________________/--------\______________________________________
> 


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:25051 soc.culture.greek:12123
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.greek
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC).
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 93 13:21:27 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1993Jan8.041850.17499@wuecl.wustl.edu> tpd1@cec1.wustl.edu (Theodore P. David) writes:

>	You will find out why I called you the frozen man before. You
>will find out that youself is 2-3 decades in the past. 

There is an unspoken accusation in the air of laziness. While there is a 
new world order emerging, to turn around and ask the Turkish Republic 
of Northern Cyprus (TRNC) to dance with an old world tune would not solve 
any problems. Who is ready to claim that 'Greek Cypriots' are not hating 
the 'Turkish Cypriots?' Insisting on not recognizing the TRNC as a 
separate republic and push them to get together with Greek Cypriots
is no different than asking each and every one of the new republics 
of old Soviet Union, Croatia and Slovenia in Yugoslavia to go back 
to the old status quo.


Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:25049 soc.culture.greek:12121
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.greek
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: CYPRUS will not be another BOSNIA HERCEGOVINA
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 93 13:19:08 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1993Jan8.020825.15591@wuecl.wustl.edu> tpd1@cec2.wustl.edu (Theodore P. David) writes:

>>  "Unless this small Turkish Community -forming a part of the Turkish race
>>   which has been the terrible enemy of Hellenism- is expelled from Cyprus,
>>   the duty of the heroes of EOKA can never be considered as terminated."
>                  MAKARIOS, Panayia, 4 September 1962
						  ^^^^^
>Okan...this is 1993.  But then again you have the same leader (king!) so
>I guess he lives in the past himself. Thirty-five (35) years in charge,

Can you spell democracy? The present administration of the Turkish sector 
on the island is run by men who were democratically elected. To suggest 
that Rauf Denktash and his co-workers are anything but honorable men 
doing a very hard job is McCarthyism in a different form.

Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24967 talk.politics.soviet:10284 soc.culture.greek:12090 soc.culture.europe:11054 soc.history:10602 soc.culture.soviet:11912
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Deportation of Palestinians
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:07:37 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.140319.13468@fuug.fi> an5115@anon.penet.fi writes:

# In article <1992Dec30.135057.23322@ennews.eas.asu.edu> you write:

# >In article <29851@castle.ed.ac.uk> jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson) writes:

# ># The affair of the illegal and immoral deportation of Palestinians has
# ># brought some interesting things into focus on this newsgroup.

# >	Given the context in which it took place, only an anti semetic
# >bigot would call it immoral (or, perhaps, someone ignorant of the
# >facts might call it immoral).  However, given the fact that the Israel
# >Supreme court has not overturned it, only an idiot would call it illegal.
 
# Former supreme court judge Haim Cohen described the deportations as 
  ^^^^^^
# illegal according to Israeli Law and immoral according to Jewsih ethics,
# when he was interviewed on Israel's TV news programme "Mabat"

	Well, he is obviously wrong.

# -------------------------------------------------------------------------
# To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
# Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
# and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned.

	Why be anonymous, Mr. Coward?
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24897 soc.culture.greek:12082
From: kremer@taveng.enet.dec.com ()
Subject: Re: Deportation vs. Murder
Reply-To: kremer@taveng.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: DEC
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 08:01:50 GMT



In article <1iptmiINN97r@life.ai.mit.edu>, 
gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Basalat Ali Raja) writes:

> In article <SHAIG.93Jan9012801@vivaldi.think.com> shaig@vivaldi.think.com
> (Shai Guday) writes:
> 
> >Until you produce some source or reference that butresses your claim,
> >more than a foreign language linguist, I see no point in continuing
> this.
> 
> 
> From the Random House College Dictionary:
> 
> an-ti (an/ti, an/te) n., pl. -tis. Informal. a person opposed to a
> particular policy, action, etc.
> 
> Sem-ite (sem'it or esp. Brit., semit) 1. A member of any of various
> ancient and modern peoples originating in SW Asia, among whom are
> the Hebrews and Arabs. 2. A Jew. 3. a member of any of the peoples
> supposedly descended from Shem.

       I fail to see the difficulty in determining this point. All you
       have to do is look up the word "ANTI-SEMITE". This is a single,
       10-letter word. EVERY English dictionary I consulted contained
       this entry as a separate word meaning a person hostile towards
       JEWS.

       This is a word that was coined in the late 1800's to refer
       specifically to someone hostile to JEWS and made its way into many
       European languages with this precise meaning.
       
       There are many examples of other words in English which mean
       something different than what you might think if you divide them up
       into their components.

-Itzhak
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: News from the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Date: 8 Jan 93 03:57:41 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1993Jan7.165622.12693@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>In article <29951@castle.ed.ac.uk> jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson) writes:
>
># So the little girl was killed after she'd been warned and shot in the legs?
># This story gets more and more absurd!!

>	What is so absurd? and how do you know what environment the girl
>was in (i.e. was she surrounded by others who were vicous threats)?
>And Why didn't she just stop when she was told to?

We cannot speculate on the surrounding circumstances, and it is a feeble
excuse to suggest that she somehow deserved to be shot to death because
of the environment that she was in.  The point is that Israeli soldiers
have no mercy even when it comes to focusing their rath on little girls.

>	I do not know what is more pathetic.  The parents of the girl for
>encouraging to take an action they knew might get her killed just for
>the PR, or Jeremy being duped by the PR.

Just how is that you know that the girl's parents encouraged her?

Is this a further justification that Israel is not responsible?

>	Do you have ANY idea about what happened at kent State?

Actually, Jeremy was citing another similar event (not specifically
under the same circumstances) in view of opposition where the end
result was the murders (in cold blood) of innocent people.

Anisa

	"We just hope that the Israelis will reciprocate and will
	not continue to create such painful and aggrevating conditions
	on the ground that need to further hostilities and feed the
	cycle of violence.  The occupation is an abnormal, distorting
	condition.  It has to come to an end.  And I think only then
	will you see an end to violence."
					Hanan Ashwari
From: jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: deportations
Date: 6 Jan 93 10:14:03 GMT
Distribution: talk
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1993Jan5.1777.22045@channel1> "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:
~To: David Makowsky
~
~ DM> William Safire did not give his interpretation.  He was
~feel obligated to disregard all your assertions.
~---

Most people already do that, Wayne.





-- 
===Jeremy Henderson===jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk=          

This message cost the net hundreds if not thousands of dollars.
Bloody good value if you ask me.
From: adam@endor.uucp (Adam Shostack)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: israel as asset
Date: 11 Jan 93 22:06:28 GMT
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University

In article <1483500320@igc.apc.org> cpr@igc.apc.org (Center for Policy Research) writes:

>It has been hinted by someone that deportations are sometimes legal
>and can be resorted to by any country.

Deportations are legal unless the territory is considered occupied
under the geneva conventions.  Israel maintains that since its claim
to Judea, Samaria and Gaza are at least as strong as any other
countries, those areas are not covered by the Geneva conventions, but
by the British laws, since Britian was the last undisputed ruler of
the area.

The United States deports illegal aliens on a fairly regular basis,
and we intercept people trying to enter the US and forcibly send them
back to their country of origin.  (Haiti for example.)

>I would like to have references to legislations of democratic
>states which permit deportation. can someone help ?

The US.

>as much as I know, deportations are considered a war crime, but
>it seems  the the learned judges of the Israeli High Court
>don't agree.

For a Center for Policy Research you seem to be lacking in background
on this issue.  Perhaps you could call your local Israeli consulate.
They could doubtles give you information on the Israeli interpretation
of the law.

Adam

Adam Shostack 					adam@das.harvard.edu

What a terrible thing to have lost one's .sig.  Or not to have a .sig
at all.  How true that is.
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: What is this doing on page 15
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 20:07:54 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1iglrcINN5jo@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bv652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ilan Uri Woll) writes:

>>In my book all three are condemnable. Add to that anybody killing anybody.
>>Tsiel

>Mazeltov. 

Wollalive.

A Final Goodbye in Azerbaijan:

[Photo by Associated Press]: "At a cemetery in Agdam, Azerbaijan, family 
members and friends grieved during the burial of victims killed in the 
fighting in Nagorno-Karabagh. Chingiz Iskandarov, right, hugged the 
coffin containing the remains of his brother, one of the victims. A copy 
of Koran lay atop the coffin."
The New York Times, 3/6/92

Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: News from the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 15:29:32 GMT

	[ most of article deleted - dlm ]
In article <30034@castle.ed.ac.uk> jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson) writes:
 
# You claim that Makowsky represents a minority, but in fact he appears to
# represent a substantial majority of Israelis

	Is this TRUE?!  I was going to make aliya in a couple of years,
but maybe I will do it now.  I would really love to replace Rabin as
PM as soon as I can!!!!!!
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
From: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: israel as asset
Date: 11 Jan 93 22:28:14 EST
Reply-To: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Distribution: talk
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

To: Michael Preminger

 MP> Israel has been a vital asset for the U.S in the mideast, in
 MP> the vicinity of the oil fields.  You said that "desert
 MP> storm" has proved that saudi is a more important asset than
 MP> israel.

Here's the nub of the problem, Michael: it is difficult to
imagine any scenario in which Israel through military action
could help the U.S. secure access to Mideast oil. Any joint
U.S.-Israeli military action in the Mideast would polarize the
entire Arab world against the U.S. and turn it into a monolithic
wall of Islamic fundamentalist rage.

Israel can barely keep control of the occupied territories. Can
you imagine what the violence would be like if the U.S. and
Israel tried to occupy the oil-producing nations for any extended
period of time?

Friendship and good will alone, not brute military force, will
keep the oil lines open to the industrial West. Israel is more an
impediment than a help in maintaining that good will.

This problem was starkly underlined in the Gulf War: Israel was
carefully kept out of the action, because its participation would
have been much more a liability than an asset.

 MP> And BTW. I dont think the Saudi sheiks and U.S share any
 MP> common values beside "In God We Trust." And you know what I
 MP> mean.

I make no secret of the fact that I feel greater cultural
sympathy for Israel than I do for the Arab world, and I hope no
Arabs here will be offended. Israel embodies more of the Western
democratic values in which I have been steeped and conditioned
than do the Arab states. Israel may not be libertarian to the
degree I would prefer, but it is significantly more libertarian
than any Arab state I know.

But it is important to realize that general cultural sympathy
alone will not be enough to sustain the U.S.-Israeli relationship
in the context of other factors. And the more that Israel becomes
"Levantinized," bogged down in endless, ugly, and primitive
tribal and religious warfare, the thinner will grow the bonds of
cultural sympathy between her and the West.

The "Levantine" side of Israel is no more a good sell in the West
than is the ugly warfare in Northern Ireland in the Jewish
community. We are not pretty when we are backed into the corner
of ranting about our religious or ethnic or national imperatives
and their enemies.
---
  OLX 3.01 31-2557  Who shall guard the guardians themselves?
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA
From: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: bernard stone
Date: 7 Jan 93 19:17:53 EST
Reply-To: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Distribution: talk
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

To: David Makowsky

 DM> Bernard Stone is perhaps the leading authority in ther world
 DM> when it comes to international law and the Middle East.
 DM> Among his writngs in the area is "Israel and Plaestine:
 DM> Assault on the laws of Nations".

This is quite odd: I did thorough searches in Hollis (Harvard)
and Melvyl (UCal), and came up with no books on law by Bernard
Stone. All that appeared were a few books on mice (children's
books?).

I called the Harvard Law School library for background info on
Bernard Stone, the eminent international lawyer. They turned up
nothing. Same results from inquiries to a number of other local
libraries.

So what gives?

 DM> As to a specific document, this is not written by Stone, but
 DM> the Official Interpretations (This is the name of the
 DM> publication given by the international legal body
 DM> responsible for interpreting the convention.  It is not a
 DM> name I made up) explictly mentions this.

What is the full cite for this "Official Interpretation"? Where
is it available? What precisely does it say?
---
  OLX 3.01 31-2557  Facts of the world, unite!
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast