HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cf123@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Christopher Leigh Putnam)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: Re: Blue Devils
Date: 24 Jan 1993 23:01:35 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cf123@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Christopher Leigh Putnam)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I have to disagree with you Michael.  The Blue Devils can win a
championship again.  Any corps that has the number one horn line and number
one guard has a shot at the top spot.  Their drumline was 8th last year, I
believe, so you can assume that with a higher score there (top 3), they
would have a shot at winning.  They might be able to make up to as much as
a point if their percussion were one of the best.  And that wouldn't take
too much innovation.  Their drill is definetley the weakest in the top
four, year in year out.  But their guard pulls up their visual scores and
their hornline doesn't lose them more than a few tenths of a points.  If
they had a drill, they would set a new record score, but they can still
win.

Look at Garfield in '86.  That was a very innovative show, but the Devils
blew them away.  They can still win and I hope they do soon.

IMHO----
 
-- 
Chris Putnam (still a Blue Devils lover at heart)
Euphonium/Baritone
Star in '93?????
Go Devils Winterguard!!!!!
From: cf123@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Christopher Leigh Putnam)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: Top 17
Date: 23 Jan 1993 22:19:25 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cf123@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Christopher Leigh Putnam)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


1. Star
2. Devils (I still can't figure out why you guys are putting them in any
           spot lower than 5th.  It's been 18 years since they've been
           there)
3. Cadets
4. Cavies
5. SCV
6. Crossmen
7. Madison
8. Blue Knights
9. Phantom
10. VK
11. Freelancers
12. Glassmen
13. Crusaders
14. Bluecoats
15. Marauders
16. Sky Ryders
17. Southwind

That's the RIGHT list for next year's top 17.  :)
-- 
Chris Putnam (still a Blue Devils lover at heart)
Euphonium/Baritone
Star in '93?????
Go Devils Winterguard!!!!!
From: fath@mbcrr.dfci.harvard.edu (Michael Fath)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: Re: If someone were to ask you...
Date: 24 Jan 1993 19:41:42 GMT
Organization: Dana-Farber Cancer Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: mbcrr.harvard.edu

In article <1jstlhINNl70@gap.caltech.edu> michaelw@cco.caltech.edu (Michael Wong) writes:
;>	If someone were to ask you what drum corps was, how would you explain
;>it to this non-drum-corps person?  What would anyone do?  Bring this person
;>to a show?  Show him (or her) a program from a drum corps show (finals, 
;>preferably) and refer him to the "Differences Between a Drum and Bugle Corps 
;>and a Marching Band" article?

This is a good question - I have a lot of friends who never hearnd of drum
corps before meeting me and I like to expose them to it a little without
being overbearing.

I like to take them to a show, they have always come out having enjoyed
it a lot, but then I still try not to force-feed it to them.

To acquantances, I tell them it is like marching band only much more musical, 
much more visually complex and much more competitive.  I use the "Olympics"
analogy - you know, that they practice as much as Olympic athletes and that
the performance levels can thus be VERY HIGH.

I find that playing a video or audio recording is NOT effective.  While I
can look at a video and appreciate everything that is going on, most
non-fans cannot and just get turned off by it.  The only way to really
introduce a new person is to take them to a live show!


;>	What do the Netters around here do?  What
;>I sometimes do is to play one of the corps from finals night on tape or on
;>CD.  I actually prefer playing the drum solo of 1990 Cavvies off the CD, which
;>happens to be one of my *favorite* drum solos.  People are always impressed
;>when they hear it.
>
>

-- 
MM   MM FFFFF 	Michael J. Fath		
M M M M F	Dept of Microbiology and Molecular Genetics
M  M  M FFF     Harvard Medical School         
M     M F       Boston, MA 02115	            fath@mbcrr.harvard.edu
From: niel@cars.com (Niel Bornstein)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: Re: where is everyone
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 09:59:11 EDT
Organization: NMB productions
Reply-To: chinchilla!niel@cars.com
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v1


In article <1993Jan20.181634.1@d0gs03.fnal.gov> (rec.arts.marching.drumcorps), jerger@d0gs03.fnal.gov writes:
>    By the way, message to Brad : speaking of SCV '87, I just got that
>tape of the end snare cat who taped his walkman to his harness and 
>recorded Finals ...

Hey, hey, hey, what are you doing passing confidential messages like
this around.  Now _I_ want a copy.  And share with the rest of the group,
too.


Niel

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Niel M. Bornstein                              chinchilla!niel@cars.com |
|                                            ...csn!sable!chinchilla!niel |
|  _   _   _   ___                              71730.1056@compuserve.com |
| | | | | | | | __)                          1352 North Morningside Drive |
| | | | | | | | (_                                Atlanta, Georgia  30306 |
| | |_| |_| |_| __)  productions          (404) 872-6883   (404) 551-8075 |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky rec.arts.marching.drumcorps:459 alt.drumcorps:2750 alt.colorguard:276
From: cf123@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Christopher Leigh Putnam)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps,alt.drumcorps,alt.colorguard
Subject: A way to get All the posts and newsgroups
Date: 27 Jan 1993 06:58:26 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cf123@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Christopher Leigh Putnam)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Last time I'll post this, I promise.

If you are having trouble receiving all the posts on this or any group, or
you can't get a group (i.e. rec.arts.marching.drumcorps), then I have a
solution.  It's called the Cleveland Freenet.  The system is free to
anyone.  All you need is to live in the Cleveland area (or call long
distance if you want) or be able to telnet from your current system.  The
latter is the most common and cheapest.

If you would like more info, then please email me or post and I'll send you
the info on how to register for your account.  Last chance, so send me your
email soon.
-- 
Chris Putnam (still a Blue Devils lover at heart)
Euphonium/Baritone
Star in '93?????
Go Devils Winterguard!!!!!
From: troot@cats.ucsc.edu (Timothy H Root)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: First BD show 86
Date: 28 Jan 1993 07:14:55 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu



In my previous post I stated that I had gone through two undefeated seasons
(midway through the 88 season)  Oops!  I totally forgot about that first 
show.  There goes my credibility huh?  SCV did win the first show in 86
I forget by how much.  I'd much rather lose only the first show of the season
than the last.  One of my freinds from BD marched 86 skipped 87 then marched
88.  He won every show except his first and his last.  (Last two actually
but they didn't tell us the scores till finals so who's counting?)

I've been reading here for a couple of weeks now.  I'd be really interested
to find out more about the people who post here.  Where/when did/do you march?
	
I marched Blue Devils 86, 87, 88.  I joined the corps
one week before the above mentioned first show filling a lower soprano
spot. (Can you blame me for not remembering the score I was too busy 
trying to remember which side of the field I was supposed to be on.) 
I played Upper Lead soprano in 87 and 88.  I was a soloist in 88
(If you have the tape I'm the tall blonde soloist in Goodbye Yesterday
[Bebop solo] and in the closer.)


				TRoot

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy Root      
troot@cats.ucsc.edu     
University of California at Santa Cruz 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: byork@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: Re: Woodwinds (was Re: Cadets cymbal line)
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:10:46 EST
Distribution: usa
Organization:  Wright State University 

In article <C1FBt4.B3J@apollo.hp.com>, afo@hpwarht.wal.hp.com (Aaron Oppenheimer) writes:
> In article <21764@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, matthews@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Thomas W. Matthews) writes:
> |> I saw an issue of DCI Today in which the director of the Cadets
> |> wrote in favor of considering adding electronic instruments
> |> and woodwinds and etc. to the drumcorps activity.  This was in 
> |> response to a letter urging that the activity keep its identity
> |> and not make those changes.
> |> 
> |> Without the article in front of me, I'm afraid to quote it here.
> |> Maybe we could have some discussion about a response to it?
> 
> (I haven't seen the article either.)
> 
> I would not be upset to see woodwinds in Drum Corps. In fact, I can't 
> really see why anyone would be against it, except that "it's never been 
> done before." Keep it's identity? What *is* the identity of Drum Corps, 
> anyway? It certainly isn't the same as it's identity in the 70's.  Or 
> the 60's or the 30's. Why should drum corps maintain it's "identity" as 
> we define it today?
> 
> I guess some people would like to maintain some sort of artificial 
> difference between Corps and marching bands, but I think that's sort of 
> silly. There really isn't that much difference now, is there? I mean, 
> maybe the competitive rules are a little different, but besides the 
> instrumentation, what's left? "Attitude?" I don't think so.
> 
> Electronic instruments might be different; I might not like to see a 
> guy in the pit with a bunch of synths and drum machines and a stack of 
> speakers. Maybe the line could be drawn at amplification vs. not?
> 
> Aaron
> 
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Aaron Oppenheimer                                Medical Products Group
> Hewlett Packard Co.                                         Waltham, MA
> =-=-=-=-=-=  I can hardly speak for myself, much less HP. =-=-=-=-=-=-=

    THE NAME OF THE ACTIVITY IS "DRUM AND BUGLE CORPS" NOT ANYTHING ELSE
INCLUDING WOODWINDS AND ELECTRONICS. THE COLOR GUARD IS ALSO PART OF THE
CORPS ( MEANING BODY ) BECAUSE IT GOES BACK TO THE DAYS OF WHEN THE CORPS
HAD TO PRESENT OR CARRY THE COLORS.
    ANY PROPOSAL TO ADD SUCH ITEMS IS DETRIMENTAL TO THE ACTIVITY AND WOULD
NOT BE FEASIBLE FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE CORPS. IF THE DISTINCTION IS NOT 
MAINTAINED DRUM CORPS WOULD CEASE TO EXIST, AND FOR THOSE OF US WHO HAVE DONE 
CORPS, THAT WOULD BE THE END OF A PART OF OUR LIVES.
    KEEP OUT IF YOU ARE A "BANDO".
                     Byork
From: Richard.V.Lamb@um.cc.umich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: RE: The Bugles: Pitched higher or lower than Bb?
Date: 28 Jan 1993 17:00:06 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

I haven't read the newsgroup today, so I don't know if this has already been
answered.  If so, bear with me.  If not, I'm surprised!
 
Don Chinn, could this info go in the FAQ?
 
In article <C1F4Ir.107@chinet.chi.il.us>, megabyte@chinet.chi.il.us
(Dr. Who? :-) wrote (The Bugles: Pitched higher or lower than Bb?):
 
]Well, as a new bugle player in a _struggling_ new corp, no one can yet tell
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Which one?  Do tell!  In VA or IL?  Your signature is confusing.
 
]me this:
]
]Are the G bugles pitched higher or lower than their Bb equivilents?
 
Lower.
 
]Thus, as a Contra player, when I see a written middle C, shoould I be
]sounding the G onthe bottom line of the Bass cleff, or the G one octave
]below that?
 
I believe the G below.  For transposing treble clef instuments, I
think the convention is to have the fundamental (NOT the pedal tone!)
written as middle C (except French Horns).  Any trumpeters care to
confirm this?
 
]How about a list for each instrument that lloks like:
]
]Soprano's Middle C sounds concert ????
]Mellophone ""    " """     "
]Baritone
]etc, etc?
 
(This is a public service announcement <TWANG!> with guitars!
Oops!  <BLARE> with bugles! :-)
 
Here goes.  Correct me if there is any problem with this.
 
Soprano's Middle C sounds concert G top space of Bass clef
Mellophone's Middle C sounds (same as soprano)
French Horn's Middle C sounds (same as soprano, but fundamental same
as baritone's)
Baritone's Middle C sounds concert G bottom line of bass clef.
Contra's Middle C sounds concert G *well* below the bass clef. 
 
]Mark E. Sunderlin: Technocrat in Winchester, Virginia  KD4HRI
] aka Dr. Megabyte: megabyte@chinet.chi.il.us  (703) 722-9330
 
This is what confused me about the location of your corps.
There's no BBS in Virginia (Suburban Washington?) you could read
from? 
 
Vince
From: troot@cats.ucsc.edu (Timothy H Root)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: Winning prelims & Not Finals\Judging
Date: 27 Jan 93 04:07:32 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu



Hi everybody.  this is my first post.  I've been reading for a while but
I couldn't get the computer to post my messages. (There must be something
wrong with it! :) )  I marched Upper Lead Sop (UFLS!) for the Blue Devils
(1986,1987,1988).

fath@mbcrr.dfci.harvard.edu (Michael Fath) writes

>In article <1993Jan25.173652.11330@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jwise@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jeff Wise) writes:
>>Which brings 
>>me to one my brother proposed, name a corps, if you can, that won Semis and 
>>failed to win the big show.  We can't think of one instance.  Therefore, we 
>>wonder if there is something to that, at least psychologically maybe.  

> Two examples I can think of off hand.

>1972 - Blue Stars won Semis, Anaheim Kingsmen won Finals
>1983 - SCV won Semis, BD and Garfield teid for second 
>       of course, Garfield won finals


I remember at some point well into the 88 season talking to Wayne Downey.
He was telling me about the 72 SCV corps. (I think he said that it was his 
age out year).  If I remember it right he said that they had gone undefeated 
all year then they lost prelims.  Then at finals the Kingsman who were 3rd
or 4th just smoked by everyone leaving SCV in third.  I remember telling
him "I can't imagine going undefeated a whole season and then ending up in
THIRD place." (at this point I had gone through 2 undefeated seasons. So
far!)  Kind of ironic huh?  Oh well.  Live and learn.  Now I don't have to
imagine.  

In the same article (I think) Jeff Wise mentioned the objectivity of
judging.  And whether it could really be fair.  I don't think that it
can.  Any time you try to judge one art work against another you will
fail.  But so what there is really nothing you can do about it.  The
alternative is all exhibition drum corps.  Who wants that??  There is a
lot to be said for going out and giving it your all and then being the
last corps to leave the field.  There is also a lot to be learned in
doing the best job you can, giving it everything you have to give and
ending up a point and a half behind the competition. It sucks! But
it's a good lesson in life.  If I learned one thing in BD it's that
you have to do it for yourself not for the ring.  Wow I sound like a 
corps director.  How did I get up on this soapbox??

I want to say that I enjoy the discussions going on here.  I've been away
from drum corps for a while & it's fun to hear what's going on.

If there are any Blue Devils out there (Old or New) Drop me a line.
   (Or anyone else that wants to.)


				TRoot.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy Root
troot@cats.ucsc.edu
University of California Santa Cruz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
From: hakari@inga1.acc.stolaf.edu (The Conformist Contrabass Clarinetist)
Subject: Re: Woodwinds in Drum and Bugle Corps
Organization: St. Olaf College; Northfield, MN
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:16:07 GMT


Speaking as a clarinetist, there is such a thing as plastic instruments.  One
company, Leblanc, in their student-model line (Vito) makes clarinets in, oh,
about 6 colors.  Imagine the fun look this would give...


--Andrea, Bb contrabass clarinetist extraordinaire???


Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
From: tmv@cupid.cc.bellcore.com (vandewater,thomas m)
Subject: Cymbal lines
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 18:06:35 GMT
Summary: I'll miss this cymbal line...

I don't think I'll miss cymbal lines in general, but here's one I've
missed for a few years.  Do you remember when VK used an all-female
cymbal line that had great legs?  (sorry about this sexist comment,
but I had to mention it).   I have no idea if they were good...but
they looked great!!

Sorry again...I hope no women throw the flares at me for mentioning this,
but this was a cymbal line that has stuck in my mind through the years....
Anybody agree??????

Tom
---

Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
From: rdorocke@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (rob lawrence dorocke)
Subject: Re: Woodwinds (was Re: Cadets cymbal line)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 03:49:17 GMT

My old high school has been using odd percussion instruments for the last
5-6 years.  Bruce McConnell of the Bluecoats has been the wind and percussion
arranger for us - he mainly introduced the odd instruments to us.  We have
used hubcaps, brake parts, large springs and many other odd metal objects.

Our competition always made fun of our pit and the audience was always
amused when watching us.  It is not every day that you see 3 people playing
a set of hubcaps like a marimba.

Rob
(rdorocke@ucs.indiana.edu)


Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
From: scottm@helena.stat.uga.edu (scott mclure)
Subject: Re: Woodwins - bands vs corps
Summary: No competition
Organization: UGA Statistics Department
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 02:28:33 GMT

DCI's top corps vs. the best marching bands?  You'd have to set some
restrictions:
	1.	bands woud only be allowed to march 128 members,
		which would kill them right off the bat.

	2.	each group would only be allowed to prepare for a set
		amount of time.  Be it 6 weeks or 6 months, they would
		all start at the same time at the same level of pre-
		paredness.

	3.	The rules for competing in DCI would have to be extended
		over the bands, minus the instrumentation rule.  That
		means a minimum time of ten minutes, max of 11:30.

	4.	The band members must be between ages 14-21, same as the
		corps.  Can't have an experience advantage, one way or
		the other.

	The results of this would be a total sweep by the corps.
Remember, the corps are made up of the best members of hundreds of bands
from across the nation.  Even U of Michigan couldn't compete under the
same rules as corps do.  Even though I love big bands, straight-out
competition between them is no contest.

Scott McLure

Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
From: rdorocke@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (rob lawrence dorocke)
Subject: Re: If someone were to ask you...
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:26:00 GMT

In article <1k5bh1INNpnc@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cf123@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Christopher Leigh Putnam) writes:
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
>
>I was showing tapes of corps to a group of my high school peers one day, to
>give them an idea of what drum corps was.  I chose to show them the '86
>Devils (best show ever), the '89 SCV (allegedly the best ever), and the '91
>Star (toughest show ever).
>
>I felt that these 3 shows gave the viewers a good cross section of styles
>in music and drill.  It also could keep them interested because of the
>music like Phantom of the Opera and the drill moves of Star and the awesome
>sound of the Devils.  If you had to show someone just one year, I would say
>the '91 Star show.  When I showed this assembled group of high school
>students that last "cross rotation" of that show, they about died.  There
>is nothing else out there that proves better the physical demands and
>mental demands of DCI better than that 15 seconds of film.  When people,
>even uninterested people, see that move, they can't help but be astonished
>that they could move at that speed while playing that music and hit that
>picture as perfectly as they did.  The epitome of DCI.  IMHO.


I introduced my roomate to drum corps at the beginning of the year.  I just
started watching the tapes in my room while he was in the room (not because he
was in the room, but because I can't live w/o them).  Anyway, he eventually
sat down and started watching one day, then the next, etc.  What initially
struck his eye was the guard girls (How can you blame him?).  He eventually
got around to notice the brass line and percussion.

I remember the first time I showed him Star's rotating cross.  He couldn't 
believe a group of people could do something so intricate.  He was
simply AMAZED.  Within a couple weeks, he could identify the instruments
(this is a guy with no musical background - except Def Leopard), he knew
what a company front was, he could identify the corps and the years of
the shows, etc.

Anyway, almost anyone can find something interesting in a drum corps show.
My roomate just so happened to notice (and admire, and worship) the guard
girls.

Well, I better go

Later


Rob
(rdorocke@ucs.indiana.edu)




>-- 
>Chris Putnam (still a Blue Devils lover at heart)
>Euphonium/Baritone
>Star in '93?????
>Go Devils Winterguard!!!!!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: Re: Other poll answers
From: <MHUGHES@MIAMIU.BITNET>
Date: Monday, 25 Jan 1993 15:24:02 EST
Organization: Miami University - Academic Computer Service

In article <1jsi08INN8rc@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cf123@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
(Christopher Leigh Putnam) says:
>
>9. a) Next corps to fade out of existence: Magic (we can only hope)
>
>9. b) Next corps to fade out of top twelve: Bluecoats.
>
>Someone was rebutting the choice of Phantom Regiment for this last
>selection by saying that last year was an off year and "what corps hasn't
>had a bad year".
>
>The Blue Devils.  18 years in the top 5.  17 of those 18 in the top 4.  A
>horrible year is 5th for the Devils.  The most consistent in the history of
>the World.  That's why I say the are the best of all time, even though SCV
>has been in the top 12 forever, the Devils have been in the top 5 for
>almost forever.

But you can't deny the downward trend in placement they are currently
in.  Up to 1987, they were a consistent top-3 corps.  Have they made the
top-3 in the past 3-4 years?  In my mind, they can regain their *legendary*
status if two things happen:

  1. get a drum line that can place higher than 8th
  2. get a top-6 caliber visual program.

These two issues are what are causing BD to have comparably DOWN YEARS as of
late.  I hold to my previous argument.  In fact, PR has done better over the
past 3-4 than has BD.

Mike
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
From: scottm@helena.stat.uga.edu (scott mclure)
Subject: Re: Winning prelims & Not Finals\Judging
Organization: UGA Statistics Department
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 04:58:17 GMT

Tim: I thought Devils lost the first show to Vanguard in '86?  I
remember reading that in DCI Today's recap of scores.  Am I wrong?
Scott