HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: QC Quebec, SK Saskatchewan...
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:50:00 GMT
Organization: Hydro-Quebec

In article <1992Apr13.164108.14682@cc.umontreal.ca> coady@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Coady Michael) writes:
>Well, I had nothing to do with the origin of current (or ancient)
>abbreviations for the 10 provinces of Canada.  But I would surmise
>that PQ has been used for Quebec due to the existence of the
>city of Quebec, which is also rumoured to receive mail.  No other
[stuff deleted, you know the law of new text greater than old text]
>It's hard to believe that some heartless anglo devised this as a
>way of trivializing Quebec (the province).
>
>Mike Coady
>COADY@ERE.UMONTREAL.CA

The trouble is not with the reason of the PQ abbreviation.
It is just that Quebec is using QC now.

So, why not accepting a standard from Quebec instead of something
that we found offensive.  Canada is so afraid of Quebec secession
that it will not even accept to remove the [P].

This is a 2-letter code that ALWAYS means a province in that context.
PQ is then redundant.  Moreover, Quebec per se has only ONE lettre
to represent it, while other have 2.


-- 
    Denis Beauregard       _ _ _ _  Collecting Beauregard/Jarret/Jarest/Vincent
beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca | * | * | Promoting use of QC as Quebec Postal Abbrev 
  Andre Jarret, sieur de  |===|===| Mes opinions?  Oui, oui, les miennes!
   Beauregard 1642-1992   |_*_|_*_| My opinions?  Yes, yes, mine!
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Canada, 2 nations.
Date: 16 Apr 92 21:15:59 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department

In article <92106.111459QPID@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> <QPID@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>
>If Canadians want to truly keep Quebec in Canada they must seriously begin to c
>onsider how to protect, sustain and build the french culture, not only  in Queb
>ec but across Canada.  If Quebec wants to stay in Canada they must present to C
>anada a method of working together without causing hostility.  At present many
>Canadians outside of Quebec are not pleased with Quebec's langauge laws inside
>Quebec and of the demands that are being put on them.  It seems to me that one
>of the big problems is that comminication is breaking down due to inhospitable
>natures on both sides.
>

What more does Quebec want?

Canada has official bilingualism.  The Prime Minister of Canada has be
predominantly from Quebec in recent history, and it has be well-
represented in the governing party during that period also.
40% of federal spending on culture goes to Quebec (which means
per capita cultural spending in Quebec is twice what it is in
TROC).  Equalization payments which represent transfers from
the taxpayers of BC, Alberta, and Ontario to the poorer 
provinces comprise 10% of the provincial budget of Quebec.
And Canada is the most decentralized federation in the world
already...Quebec as a member of a federation already has more
autonomy than any subunit of almost every other federation.

Gerald
From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Why Quebec nationalists want to separate?
Date: 16 Apr 92 04:20:19 GMT
Distribution: can.politics
Organization: University of Waterloo

In article <1992Apr15.213907.23107@watserv1.waterloo.edu> schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY) writes:

	Context deleted

>During those years, relations have been worsening. There is distrust
>on both sides. Some Quebec nationalists don't think Canada can protect
>their society, and English Canadians don't trust Quebec with minorities
>because of its record with language laws.
> 
>The bottom line is: we are VERY different from English Canadians.
>The expression "Two solitudes" cannot be more exact: each society
>is going on almost without acknowledging the existence of the other.
>Quebec nationalists think that we cannot live together because
>of our old disputes, I would say.

	Note that, unless Quebec is planning to move, they will still
be surrounded by TROC and the USA, and will still (Unless they are planning
an Albania, which I strongly doubt) have to deal with us, one way or
another. I think that's important to remember: if we couldn't overcome
our differences under one government, what are the odds we will do so
peacefully as separate, but intertwinned, nations?

							James Nicoll
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: migod@turing.toronto.edu (Mike Godfrey)
Subject: Re: Separation?
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Distribution: can
Date: 10 Apr 92 13:45:52 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.010038.15969@watserv1.waterloo.edu> schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY) writes:
>>"My Canada includes Quebec."  <-- If you believe it, say it!
>
>About this campaign of the trucker, in French, it says "Mon Canada comprend 
>le Que'bec". Direct translation in English: could be "My Canada includes
>Quebec"  OR "My Canada understands Quebec".
>The true exact translation should be "Mon Canada INCLUT le Que'bec".
>
>Why the words are different in French?
>Many people think exactly that Canada DOES NOT understand Quebec.
>Coincidence???
>
>Care to comment???


The direct English translation would be <surprise>:
	"My Canada comprehends Quebec" 
and that would imply both meanings too.  Trouble is that it's not really
idiomatic.  It sounds too clever, and not everyone realizes that
"comprehends" also means "includes" in English.

The simple fact is that there is no good idiomatic way to imply both
meanings, hence a choice had to be made.  I guess the original sloganeer
decided it was more important to proclaim to the Quebec-bashers that he
feels Quebec is integral to the country, rather than saying that he able to
understand Quebec, which the Quebec-bashers might also claim to be able to do.

Mon Canada comprend le Quebec.  
(J'espere que mon Quebec comprend moi aussi.)

-- 
Mike Godfrey   	           		"Either that wallpaper goes, or I do."
Dept of Comp Sci, UofT      	         	-- allegedly, the last words
migod@turing.toronto.edu			   of Oscar Wilde
From: migod@turing.toronto.edu (Mike Godfrey)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Queen of Canada
Date: 16 Apr 92 13:47:05 GMT
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto

In article <1992Apr16.035117.27925@bmerh2.bnr.ca> nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau) writes:
>The Granby zoo sold Cornelius to the San Diego zoo years ago.

Geez, first Gretzky, now Cornelius.  Our great heros are leaving in
alarming numbers.

>And Cornelius died a few years back (leading to the disbanding of
>the Rhinoceros party, left without a leader).
>
>If you think people object to the Queen now, how do you think they
>would feel about a dead rhino in a U.S. zoo?
>
>:-)

As opposed to the lifeless frump on the British throne?

Doesn't sound like such a bad trade-off.

OK, if Cornerlius *is* dead, then he's fair game to replace the queen on 
our money.  Toss you for it ... horns or tails?

-- 
Mike Godfrey   	           		"Either that wallpaper goes, or I do."
Dept of Comp Sci, UofT      	         	-- allegedly, the last words
migod@turing.toronto.edu			   of Oscar Wilde
From: galbrth@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: My last word on Qc vs PQ postal abbreviations
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:56:58 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) writes

|galbrth@ac.dal.ca writes:
|
|>You're putting *way* too much into this matter.
|>If you persist, how are Canadians to decide what is *really* important
|>to the Quebecois?  They may start to think Quebecois feel as much or
|>little about very important issues as about the use of `Qc'!
|
|If Canadian don't matter about using PQ, why do each time I suggest to
|use it, and the American involved in the list accept the idea as it
|is more obvious, why do a lot of Anglo-Canadian write to protest?

Most Canadians couldn't care less!
Most Quebcois couldn't care less!
Only you seem to care!

If all the ccountry started using `Qc' as a symbol toward Quebec, they'd
be accused of trivializing Quebec nationalism!

|For example, on my credit card, there is a 2-letter code for the
|company billing me.  A Quebec based firm, it uses QC.  But, the company
|distributing the credit cards is Ontario based and changed the address
|code from QC to PQ.  Why are they changing that since they have to do that
|on many 100000 of cards to process the whole thing.  And they should know
|they are doing that, no?

You make it sound like a plot against you!
You must have an idea how it works?  One compagny sends it's database to
the other and provinces is coded in some way in there.  Probably not as Qc
or PQ but as a number.  The Ontario branch may not even know what the Quebec
branch is using.  And why does it matter!

I couldn't care less if I got mail addressed to N.S. or N.E., and I get both!

|As I said before, it is a symbol that could be installed at almost
|no cost.  Just switching when preparing new forms, and replacing a few
|codes in a some reference lists, et voila.  But, they DON'T do it.
|If Federal is so friendly to Quebec, why not giving that (free) gift?

WHAT DO YOU WANT?  FEDERAL GOVERNMENT LEGISLATION ON MANDATORY POSTAL
ABBREVIATIONS?

Please give it up.  There is no plot against Quebec or the use of `Qc'.
Write letters to your credit card company... Maybe they'll switch!
But this is not a topic for can.politics and I will discuss it no more.
 _____________________________________________________________________________
 Peter Galbraith       [Phone: (902) 494-7007] |  GALBRTH@AC.DAL.CA (InterNet)
 Dept. of Oceanography,  Dalhousie University  |  GALBRTH@DALAC     (BitNet)
 Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada, B3H 4J1         |  rhogee@dalcs      (UUCP)
          ^^^^^^^^^^^
Look mom!  No abbreviation!
Xref: sparky can.politics:3653 soc.culture.canada:3309
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: robinson@mdivax1.uucp (Jim Robinson)
Subject: Re: Get Ready Canada For The Next Boom 
Reply-To: robinson@mdd.comm.mot.com (Jim Robinson)
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC
Date: 10 Apr 92 20:10:22 GMT

jcowling@ophelia.UVic.CA (Scowling Jim Cowling) writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.164829.29733@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> ash@sumex-aim.stanford.edu (David Ash) writes:
>>Also I don't see how the GST would have much effect.  GST money just stays
>>in the country so it wouldn't seems to have much of an impact on the overall
>>health of the economy.
>
>Put seven percent on practically every consumer product in the country, and
>spending decreases.  Reduce spending, economy hurts.  Very simple.  

But the 7% GST replaced the 13% MST. In theory the result was supposed to
be that there would be little over-all price change. The inflation figures
tend to support this. I believe that the GST added (according to the
economists) about 1.25% to 1.5% to prices. Certainly not 0, but also not a
great amount. As well, this was a one time inflation spike.
-- 
Jim Robinson
robinson@mdivax1.mdd.comm.mot.com
{ubc-cs!van-bc,uunet}!mdivax1!robinson
From: sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: A propos de sport (WAS: Re: Denis Beauregard's hero?)
Date: 11 Apr 92 15:28:55 GMT
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal, Canada

In article <338@catnix.UUCP> michele@catnix.UUCP (Michele A. Simond) writes:

   Alors, SVP, essayons de ne pas meler les cartes; de ne pas
   meler sport et politique plus qu'il ne faut.

Il faudrait d'abord savoir si les cartes ne sont pas deja meles. Moi je ne
suis pas pret a dire que les cartes ne sont pas meles.

Te souviens-tu de ce que Myriam Bedard a eu besoin pour obtenir un contrat
en francais? Ce que Myriam Bedard a eu besoin pour etre en mesure de
demander un entraineur qui puisse communiquer avec les franconphones en
francais? Et ne me dit pas que les francophones parles tous anglais, car ce
n'est pas le cas. Avant sa medaille olympique elle devait prendre son trou.
Certes, c'est une question de langue. Mais ce n'est pas loin d'etre
politique. Et si ce n'est pas politique ca donne un arriere gout politique.

Il y a aussi eu, en 1976, le geste de revenir sur la decision de tenir les
entrainement de l'equipe de volley-ball a Montreal, qui a par une suite
quelconque d'evenement conduits a l'expulsion de l'equipe des Quebecois (ou
Montrealais?). Peut-etre es-tu plus en mesure que moi de relater tout les
details de ces evenements?

Que dire de l'expulsion de la ligue de l'Ontario des trois equipes
universitaires du Quebec? Les arguments justificateurs sont apparamment
d'ordre monetaire...

Quoi que tu en dises, il arrive que des evenements a saveur politique se
produise dans le monde du sport de ton beau pays.
--
  ,                          ,                           ,
Stephane Boucher, ing. jr. | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca        | 
sbo@info.polymtl.ca        | (514)340-5950
From: robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: O Canada, O Quebec  - reaction
Date: 15 Apr 92 22:06:30 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada

In article <1992Apr13.194127.14902@watserv1.waterloo.edu> schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY) writes:
>In article <1992Apr13.134326.13629@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr13.005631.8885@watserv1.waterloo.edu> schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY) writes:
>>>In article <1992Apr10.163958.6038@bmerh2.bnr.ca> robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins) writes:
>>>>Being one of the few people who has apparently bothered to
>>>>read the book, I have difficulty understanding how ANYBODY
>>>>can claim that this book is hate literature or really so
>>>>offensive. 
>>>>
>>>>I read it, enjoyed it and recommend it.
>>>>Richler doesn't play footsie with the chauvinists outside of
>>>>Quebec either. He craps equally on the APEC dinosaurs as he
>>>>does their equivalent in Quebec, his own province.
>>>
>>>Precisely. But newspapers talk only about the bad parts of Quebec.
>>>We just see "the head of the coin".
>>>
>>>Richler is only guilty of bad timing. He should never have written
>>>such a book in the middle of a constitution crisis...    :)
>>
>>The time to engage in a debate is while the issue is still unsettled...
>>the timing of the book is most appropriate.  
>>
>>>The book may be used against Quebec by chauvinists...
>>
>>How...Quebec nationalists claim this...but how can a book which
>>comdemns intolerance and stupid unilingualist policies be used by
>>bigots?  
>
>In proving that Quebec is fundamentally bad, racist, antisemite, antidemo-
>cratic...
>
>Quebec has many ("defauts" in French????), but it's not THAT bad.
>Quebec is not only bad.
>
>Even Richler acknowledges that: he's still in Quebec, isn't he?
>
>Newspapers and chauvinists only use what suits them in such a book,
>to convey a biased image of Quebec.
>
>About the timing of the book, publishing it at such a time does not
>open the eyes of faulty Quebeckers: it only serves to get them angry,
>because right now, Quebec is "le point de mire". There is a lot
>of Quebec-bashing right now. This book is seen as the drop which
>makes the cup overflow, as we say in French...
>
>At a more peaceful time, maybe people would have seen some truth in it
>and be more prepared to change the faulty attitudes...


Sylvain, you are wrong.
READ THE DAMN BOOK and see for yourself.
This book is not an insult to Quebec.

READ IT and make up your OWN mind. Don't let others tell you what this
book is about.
Read it and laugh for gods sake.
Richler says he would not want to live anywhere else but in Quebec,
that the most interesting politicians in Canada have come from Quebec
(Levesque and Trudeau) and that what hurts him is what is happening
to his province because of hypocritical chauvinists. See what he
was told by Levesque about Laurin; what Bouchard tells anglos as 
compared to francos; what the other members of the elite say in private.

I can't believe you would say the same things after you read it.

I read it,
Frank.
From: warkent@ltisun9.epfl.ch (Ken Warkentyne)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Queen of Canada
Date: 13 Apr 92 09:21:49 GMT
	<SBO.92Apr12121903@froh.vlsi.polymtl.ca>
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne---Laboratoire de
	Teleinformatique
In-reply-to: sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca's message of 12 Apr 92 16:19:03 GMT

In article <SBO.92Apr12121903@froh.vlsi.polymtl.ca> sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher) wrote:
> You're in for a tough break Peter. I've seen support for the queen even by
> the so called moderate in can.politics. I agree with you that the queen has
> no business in Canada, but I suspect that a large segment of the
> anglophones still worship the queen.

The Queen has a large amount of personal popularity because she has been
quite good at doing her job.  But I doubt that many of her supporters
are real monarchists.  If her successor performs poorly (and it will
be a challenge to perform as well), I expect to see the Canadian Monarchy
out on its ear.
--
Ken Warkentyne - warkent@ltisun.epfl.ch
                 Laboratoire de Teleinformatique, EPFL, Suisse.
From: sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Queen of Canada
Date: 12 Apr 92 16:19:03 GMT
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal, Canada

In article <1992Apr11.160351.4968@ac.dal.ca> galbrth@ac.dal.ca writes:

   jswilson@mta.ca (SCOTT_WILSON) writes
   |                         If it insults you're poor little ego then go home
   |the Queen is as much as a part of Canada as the beaver and the maple leaf.
   |She is OUR queen as well.

   I agree with Andrew.  It's time we took over British `traditions' and
   replace them with Canadian ones!

You're in for a tough break Peter. I've seen support for the queen even by
the so called moderate in can.politics. I agree with you that the queen has
no business in Canada, but I suspect that a large segment of the
anglophones still worship the queen.

Oh well, at least she does not come in Quebec, or when she does so she make
sure she does it quickly :-).
--
  ,                          ,                           ,
Stephane Boucher, ing. jr. | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca        | 
sbo@info.polymtl.ca        | (514)340-5950
From: audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: O Canada, O Quebec  - reaction
Date: 10 Apr 92 13:43:13 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article (Marc Riese) writes:
>
>Pour les obsedes des symboles, la critique inclut une photo d'un jeune homme
>fache au defile de St Jean Baptiste avec ce qui reste d'un drapeau
>Canadien qu'il a apparemment dechire. Je fait allusion a ceci parce que
>quelqu'un sur can.francais a pretendu recemment que ce genre de betise
>ne se fait que par les TROCiens:
>>Des Quebecois n'ont jamais pietinee sur le Drapeau de l'Ontario.
                                                          ^^^^^^^ 
Il y a une enorme difference entre dechirer un drapeau du Canada et
dechirer un drapeau de l'Ontario. Dechirer un drapeau du Canada (au
Quebec) c'est une facon (pas necessairement tres bonne ni efficace)
d'afficher son desir d'independance. C'est renier son appartenance au
Canada. Ca n'implique pas de haine envers quiquonque. Dechirer un
drapeau de l'Ontario, c'est de la haine envers autrui les ontariens.
Il serait difficile de justifier le comportement de vieux seniles de
Saut-Ste-Marie pietinant le drapeau quebecois par d'autre chose que de
la haine.

>Un avis que je partage avec Richler c'est que la caracteristique commune 
>la plus significative entre les Quebecois et les TROCiens, c'est que nous
>avons generalement du mauvais gout. Par rapport aux Europeens, c'est vrai.

Plus j'en entends sur cet imbecile, plus il me tombe sur les nerfs. A
mon avis, il provoque seulement pour provoquer. Si j'etait
psychologue, je dirais qu'il se hais lui-meme.

-- 
Francois Audet
Telephone: (613) 592-2121 x1754
Internet: Francois.Audet@software.Mitel.COM
From: galbrth@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Le mirage avant le chaos
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:25:41 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY) writes

|galbrth@ac.dal.ca writes:
|>beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) ecrit
|>
|>|j'en ai rien a foutre, pas plus que le 1er juillet, ce sont des symboles
|>|vides si tu n'y crois pas), mais ce symbolisme qui nous touche
|>|(le Quebec utilise QC, alors le Canada utilisera QC aussi, on vous
|>|appuie; une promotion pour que les calendriers faits par des
|>|non-francos ou non-quebecois utilise les mots "Fete nationale du Quebec",
|>
|>Bon.  D'un trait tu te fout du 1er Juillet, et de l'autre tu te souci
|>de le Canada ne publicise pas `la fete du Quebec' ???
|>Pas tres consistent ton affaire!
|>
|>En plus, tous mes amis Quebecois appellent encore le 24 Juillet la fete de la
|>St. Jean.  Alors revient en!
|
|Et alors?
|
|St-Jean est le patron des Quebecois!  On dit bien "Noel", pourtant
|tout le monde sait que c'est la fete "a Jesus"!!!!!     :)

Exactement!   L'usage common est encore St. Jean
Et on ne voit pas `Fete `a Jesus' sur le calendrier.  On y voit `Noel'!

Merci pour le coup de main!

|En passant, c'est le 24 JUIN, pas juillet...

Mais bien sur.  Je tape souvent plus vite que je pense (ou moins vite, et le
rattrapage fait des erreurs)
 _____________________________________________________________________________
 Peter Galbraith       [Phone: (902) 494-7007] |  GALBRTH@AC.DAL.CA (InterNet)
 Dept. of Oceanography,  Dalhousie University  |  GALBRTH@DALAC     (BitNet)
 Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada, B3H 4J1         |  rhogee@dalcs      (UUCP)
From: coady@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Coady Michael)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Queen of Canada
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:59:32 GMT
Organization: Universite de Montreal

Stephen Webb asked how Canadians felt about the monarchy and so I've
got to leap in with my $0.02.  I don't care much one way or another
about the English monarchy; my ancestors were Irish and so I don't need
anybody to explain to me the faults of Britain or its monarchy.  At
the moment, they are a quaint part of the government whose main attraction
is being a form of tradition.  When the monarchists write into the Glove
and Mail (whoops, sorry about the spelling error but I don't know how to
edit on this thing yet) after a Royal visit they always proclaim that the
huge crowds are evidence that Canadians long to have the Royals as our
heads of state.  Strange that they don't suggest this when the Pope gets
even bigger crowds.  If we MUST have a monarchy for constitutional reasons,
then I would prefer having one from the native peoples of Canada.  Or
Gretzky.

Mike Coady
COADY@ERE.UMONTREAL.CA