HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Americanisms (was Re: Back from the UK)
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:45:02 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk wrote:
> yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo) writes:
>> This brings to mind a question.  When and why did the Americans and the
>> Brits part company in the pronunciation of the "ary" sound at the end of
>> words?  For example, the Brits pronounce "secretary" as "sec-RE-tree".
>> While American pronounce it, "sec-re-tar-e".

You've got this wrong, unless you're thinking of some weird British dialect
confined to one street in Rutland.  "secREtree" is the pronunciation of
the] word "secretory" (as in glands), and as far as I know is used both
sides of the Atlantic (usually the "o" doesn't vanish completely).  The
stress in "secretary" is on the first syllable in both the US and
everywhere in Britain.  Where US English, and some forms of Scots, differ
from (I think) all English dialects in England is in pronouncing the third
syllable like that in "where", rather than as a schwa.


>> Also, the Brits seem to often stress the second syllable in mult-syllable
>> words.  While the American stressing of syllables seems to be random.
>> For example, Americans say "RE-search" and Brits say "re-SEARCH".
> Isn't this just part of the way in British English the stress on the 1st or
> 2nd syllable depends on whether it's being used as a verb or a noun 
>     eg  You REcord a RECord. (ree-cord or r-cord, reck-cord)
>         A SURvey is what you get after surVEYing (sur-vey, s-vey)

Do you really talk that way?  Nearly everybody else says reCORD for the verb.

I suspect that what's going on here is just part of a much larger process:
the English stress rule (with very, very few exceptions) says "stress the
first syllable unless there is an identifiable and productive prefix (which
should be unstressed), or unless the word is an obvious wholesale borrowing
(in which case the originating language's rules apply)".  And as prefixes
get less productive, and the foreignness of borrowings gets forgotten, the
"unless" bit drops out.  Come back in a few centuries and we'll all be
stressing "banana" on the first syllable.  It's not surprising that this
process tends to hit different words on each side of the Atlantic.

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
From: aaron@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Back from the UK
Date: 21 Jan 93 12:41:38 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

Jim Munro x2497 (jmunro@wyse.wyse.com) wrote:
: The primary reason for having a seperate bathroom and 'toilet' is so that one
: person can use one while sonmeone else uses the other. Most
: American houses solve this problem by having more than one bathroom.
							     ^^^^^^^^

Do you mean room with bath or with toilet? :=)

It is really handy to have a spare toilet when you share a house with someone
who routinely bathes himself for two to three hours at a stretch. Our spare
toilet is not much fun as it is outside. Parts of me are delicate
   
: Jim Munro
From: gjw@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Mr Garry J. Wardrope)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: seperate hot and cold water taps in the UK
Date: 24 Jan 93 14:47:37 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

ewadams@netcom.com (Ernest Adams) writes:

>>>"Nadine Smith" (nmsmith@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu) wrote:
>>>: 
>>>: 	Could someone please tell a confused American (no jokes, please!)
>>>: 	why the hot and cold water taps are seperate in the UK?
>>>: 	And why if there is only one faucet is the hot and cold
>>>: 	water kept seperate until it comes out of the tap? 

>The British frequently do not have central heating and do not bother
>to heat their bathrooms. Likewise, they do not often have good
>American energy-wasting 40-gallon hot water heaters, but pathetic
>little demand heaters capable of up to six teaspoonfuls a minute.
>Consequently, there is no point in having cold water in the bathroom
>at all. The only functioning tap needed is the hot water tap. The cold
>water tap is just for show and provides visual symmetry.

>Joking aside, I never did understand why you have a water tank in the
>attic. Is this because supplies are interrupted frequently and you
>need to have a reservoir? Or some bizarre Civil Defense thing ("Europe
>may have been destroyed by atom bombs, but by god, we've got our water!")?


  My first reaction to this is what on earth do the Americans have? can it
be that different?

  On the subject of having separate taps this gove you the ability to obtain
water at any desired temperature between the cold water temp to the hot.  Then
you can have water that dosn't take the skin of your hands to wash with or
scalding hot for cleaning other items.  If you mix them at the 'faucet' then
you dont have to fill the basin to get the correct temperature, you can
put your hands under the stream. (Though they don't work too well)

  On the subject of header tanks they are primarly there for the boiler, this
ensures that there is always sufficient head of water for it to operate
safely.


  Anyway have I bitten? or was this serious?

		Garry


-- 
Mail:	Garry Wardrope, Computing Science Dept.,  Tel: (041) 339 8855 x5322
	Glasgow Univ., 17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK. 
email:	gjw@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk
".. and even if I came in sight of paradise what price its moon without Marsco"
From: tgg@otter.hpl.hp.com (Tom Gardner)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 11:53:41 GMT
Subject: Re: British computer companies
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british

|In order to refute a claim of a co-worker here in California, I
|would like a quick list of British computer (hardware, complete
|systems) manufacturers. This does not have to be complete, but
|lets start with ICL.  I would like a few more names please.

I don't think there are any, but no doubt someone will inform me if I'm 
wrong.

There are, of course, a number of foreign companies which make/design computers,
of which ICL is one...
From: mckeonj@ul.ie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Three green lights on a lorry
Date: 17 Jan 93 00:03:19 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland

Idly curious, I ask:
What is the significance, if any, of the three green lights
often displayed by lorries/trucks in Britain and Ireland?
I don't recall seeing them in France or Germany, but then
I wasn't out much at night there.
And, in the same thread, do they still use the TIR plate
formerly discussed in this group?
-- 
"Ich am of Irlonde" (medieval fragment used by Yeats)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
John McKeon, Material Science Dept. University of Limerick, Ireland
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.europe
From: jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: london, england
Date: 22 Jan 93 21:51:48 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Wyse Technologies San Jose, Ca

In article <1jlnnhINNnvf@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC) writes:
>In article <4022@wyse.wyse.com>, jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497) writes:
>> In article <ba1702Em32cB01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> czl30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Chris Lee) writes:
>
>>                                 We also enjoy
>> California Cuisine, which is your basic Nouvelle Cuisine, but made with 
>> fresh ingredients year round.
>
>Unfortunately mixed with the no-salt, low-cholesterol, half-fat, one calorie
>zero flavour other ingredients...
>


Oh, I forgot, we also have good health and long life.

Jim Munro
From: aaron@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: seperate hot and cold water taps in the UK
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:05:19 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

kelly@minster.york.ac.uk wrote:
:I have lived in various parts of the UK all my life, and the only place where
:I have experienced slightly brown water was in the Scottish island of Skye. 
:This came as a complete surprise at the time as I had never experienced 
:anything other than crystal-clear water for the rest of my life. 
: 
: Ian

  I've experienced slightly green water before, but that generally says more
  about domestic copper piping. Is copper in concentration strong enough to
  discolour the water a health hazard?

  Other than that I have only experienced brown water immediately after
  work has been carried out on the mains.

  Of course clear water isn't necessarily safe water.

		Aaron Turner
From: w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Americanisms (was Re: Back from the UK)
Date: 27 Jan 93 11:42:26 GMT
Reply-To: w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk
Organization: Chemical & Process Engineering Dept, University of Newcastle, UK.

yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo) writes:

>In article <28566@dog.ee.lbl.gov> mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm) writes:
>>briand@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM writes:
>>>It's fun to listen to US folks try to pronounce Spanish. You see, Spanish
>>
>>Maybe so, but nothing tops the BBC pronunciation of Nicaragua:
>>"Knicker-ague-ah".

>This brings to mind a question.  When and why did the Americans
>and the Brits part company in the pronunciation
>of the "ary" sound at the end of words?

>For example, the Brits pronounce "secretary" as "sec-RE-tree".
>While American pronounce it, "sec-re-tar-e".

>Also, the Brits seem to often stress the second syllable in mult-syllable
>words.  While the American stressing of syllables seems to be random.
>For example, Americans say "RE-search" and Brits say "re-SEARCH".

  Isn't this just part of the way in British English the stress on
the 1st or 2nd syllable depends on whether it's being used as a verb
or a noun 
    eg  You REcord a RECord. (ree-cord or r-cord, reck-cord)
        A SURvey is what you get after surVEYing (sur-vey, s-vey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.french
From: mike@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Michael Gschwind)
Subject: Re: British phones in France
Organization: Vienna University of Technology
	<1j2025INNct1@morrow.stanford.edu> <30210@castle.ed.ac.uk>
	<1j6rmoINNno@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> <1993Jan18.094304.6464@osf.org>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:00:08 GMT

In article <1993Jan18.094304.6464@osf.org> david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George) writes:

   |> France to UK (cheap rate, after 9:30pm) at 3.04 FF/min. Last time I
   |> looked the exchange rate was about 8.55F/GBP, so 3.04 F works out at
   |> GBP 0.356/min (including VAT)

   In other words if you call after 9.30pm you still pay 50 % more in France
   compared to the not especially cheap BT. Well as Jean-Francois Berne might
   say "there's no fool like the one who believes France Telecom".

Well, we're all getting pretty much screwed by our national
Tele[ck]oms in Europe - US long distance you can get down to ~ 15c per
minute, and the US is quite a bit larger than Europe - AND local
calls are completely free (flat fee) - international rates in Europe
are a nightmare - using Austria's phone company, we pay about 
US $1.70 to the US (2.70 Alaska), with MCI or ATT Call USA you can get
it for US $1.01 (Alaska included) - guess what service I use for
calling to the USA from Europe (btw anybody in Europe can sign up for
MCI Call USA, just give 'em your credit card number - and you get an
itemized bill every month FREE OF CHARGE (as oppsed to most European 
phone companies) - and if you complain you don't get the arrogant
'we're the phone company attitude most European companies exhibit!). 
Unfortunately the World Reach programs for MCI & ATT are pretty bad
rate-wise (at least from Europe to Europe) - calling from X to Y (X,Y
in Europe) the rate seems to be rate (X-USA) PLUS rate (Y-USA).
Europe's phone companies would otherwise probably go berzerk - 
anyway, I'm hoping to see the day when these state monopolies (or
state-guaranteed monopolies, as in Britain) are history. I hope that
the EC Commision does something about it, but I'm not so sure ...

in the meantime,
vive la deregulation!

michael
--

Michael Gschwind, Vienna University of Technology
mike@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at	(*) BOZO is a registered 
(back in Vienna)                    trademark of Bush/Quayle 92
                                (*) UNIX is a registered 
                                    trademark of AT&T
From: library@comlab.ox.ac.uk (Gordon Riddell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: The Poll Tax
Date: 22 Jan 93 10:54:08 GMT
Organization: Oxford University Computing Laboratory, UK
Originator: library@merlin.comlab

In article <1078@quirm.terminus.ericsson.se> steve@terminus.ericsson.se writes:
>In article 93Jan20111537@hunter.cs.strath.ac.uk, jim@cs.strath.ac.uk (Jim Reid) writes:
>>In article <1jhdquINN9rb@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> martin.baines@uk.sun.com (Martin Baines - Sun UK - SE Manager Cambridge) writes:
>>
>>Wrong. Scotland had two rates revaluations which pushed up everyone's
>>bills because of the rocketing inflation in house prices. This tended
>>to hammer Conservative votes who mainly lived in the leafy suburbs.
>>Support for the Conservative party crumbled as a result. Revaluations
>>in England and Wales were postponed because they would lead to even
>>larger rises in rates bills and a drop in support for the Conservative
>>party. It was then that the loony Poll Tax idea was adopted.
>
>
>I never understood this argument at the time. If the rateable values of the houses
>were raised significantly, then why wasn't the rate/pound reduced so that the
>total income from the rates stayed the same or rose with inflation?

 
I seem to remembet that the rate/pound did reduce but this is where the
accountability arguements came to the fore. They weren't going down far
enough. Council tenants, for instance, saw smaller rises in their overall
rates bills for political reasons, except in Tory council areas. Thousands
of people notionally didn't pay rates so didn't really care what the
rate/pound was. The Poll Tax was supposed to conquer this "problem".

Gordon
From: cstadgs@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr R J Tinsley)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Study Digital Signal Processing
Date: 28 Jan 1993 13:55:05 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk
Keywords: study, digital signal processing, Europe

In article <1k7v4tINN3m5@cs.tut.fi> defee@cs.tut.fi (Irek Defee) writes:
>	INTERNATIONAL PROGRAM IN DIGITAL SIGNAL PROCESSING
>	          SIGNAL PROCESSING LABORATORY
>                TAMPERE UNIVERSITY OF TECHNOLOGY
>		        TAMPERE, FINLAND
[Much deleted]
>
>For further information, please contact:
>
>Prof. Moncef Gabbouj, email: moncef@cs.tut.fi, tel. + 358 31 161 967	
>Prof. Irek Defee,     email: defee@cs.tut.fi,  tel. + 358 31 162 696	
>                                               fax: + 358 31 161 857

Anyone know if courses in digital signal processing include classes
on how to set up a kill-file for all articles cross-posted to twelve,
yes, count them, TWELVE COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT GROUPS?

-Bob

Just my `hundreds if not thousands of dollars' worth

*plonk*
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.usage.english
From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Subject: Re: Back from the UK
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 17:15:39 GMT

In article <CAH.93Jan21145806@fat-controller.cs.bham.ac.uk> cah@cs.bham.ac.uk (Ceri Hopkins) writes:
>
>To start another thread. How anyone can put up with the impersonal
>"Have a nice day" without screaming back "Go f*ck yourself"/"Do you
>know me?"/"Do you really care?", I'll never know.  How can there be
>any sincerity wrapped up in this throwaway expression? Answers
>required to (i) how prevalent this is, (ii) what net-people think
>of the practice? (iii) examples from Britain.

I agree - this bugs me too.  And those t-shirts with "Don't worry, be
happy" - I usually manage to restrain my homicidal tendencies.
(Fortunately, the police don't take the murder of people wearing such
t-shirts seriously:  "Umm, a clear case of provocation - but do try not
to do it again sir, as those bodies do clutter up the city."  :-) )

Another "favourite" - the host of a lottery draw saying "Good luck to
everyone!"  Since there are a limited number of winners, this is as
meaningless as it gets!

>(*) I am a "choir-singing coal miner, who shags sheep" (age old
>stereotype of the Welsh).

I conform to no stereotype - I'm the Rhealist, and there's only one
of those . . .  :-)

       The Rhealist - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: eac@world.std.com (Eric A Cottrell)
Subject: Re: london, england
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:47:25 GMT

In <1993Jan19.140157.944@walter.cray.com> cmfb@cray.com (Chris Bone) writes:

>What always surprises me is how people (media-types and otherwise) refer to
>British newspapers as The London Times or The London Observer as if they
>were some London local paper.
But they are!
Some U.S. papers like the Washington Post and the New York Times are
nationally distributed, but they are still have the location were they are
produced in their name.
73 eac@world.std.com
From: jim@cs.strath.ac.uk (Jim Reid)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: The Poll Tax
Date: 22 Jan 93 13:52:32 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Strathclyde Univ., Glasgow, Scotland.
In-reply-to: martinb@uk.sun.com's message of 20 Jan 93 15:17:03 GMT

In article <1jjqdfINNgu3@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> martinb@uk.sun.com (Martin Baines - Sun UK - SE Manager Cambridge) writes:

   As for saying rates were not unpopular, this is plain rubbish.

Who said that they were? Nobody likes paying taxes. It's a fact of life.

								 Like
   most taxes, those who paid them hated them. The particularly nasty
   thing about rates, was the way they made you pay money out of income
   based on the value of a nonliquid asset. They worked particularly
   against the widowed and retired.

Oh, not that chestnut again! Broadly speaking, the more expensive your
home was (and therefore your likely income), the more you paid in
rates. Granted there were some anomalies - elderly widows living in
mansions in Morningside - but they could have been dealt with by a
careful programme of reform. Something along the lines of the new
council tax isn't so bad - it has its faults though - could have been
done as a first stab at rating reform. It's a disgrace that the Poll
Tax was introduced because of Mrs. Thatcher's crocodile tears for
these wee widows and pensioners living in big houses.

				  The Labour party was not particularly
   concerned about this, as much of their support came from people
   in subsidised social housing: although council tenents paid rates,
   their rents were subsidised out of the rates - for some reason they
   didn't complain very much about them!

Some Labour councils cynically exploited this. They had a policy of
keeping rents low, but rates high. Typical Labour voters in their
council houses could get rates rebates (ironically paid for by central
government), leaving mainly Conservative supporters paying high rates
bills. Not suprisingly this policy was popular with Labour councils as
it didn't alienate their natural support and also let them score a
victory over the government by screwing extra money from it for rates
rebates.

		Jim
From: rosemary@wpi.WPI.EDU (Rosemary Irene Braun)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: CYMRAEG
Date: 24 Jan 93 18:31:41 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu


Hello!

I am an American physics student who is fascinated with the Welsh
language. Unfortunately, the institutions here do not offer courses,
and I find it extremely difficult to pick up languages on my own.
Are there any Welsh speakers reading this who would not mind answering
a few of my endless questions? If so, I would be extremely grateful
if you would contact me by email.


Many thanks in advance!

   *-------------------*------------------*------------------------*
   |  drawroF gnikooL  |  Rosemary Braun  |  rosemary@wpi.wpi.edu  |
   *-------------------*------------------*------------------------*
From: cstadgs@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr R J Tinsley)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: British passport needs re-newing in Canada
Date: 22 Jan 1993 18:45:13 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
NNTP-Posting-Host: clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk

In article <CAH.93Jan22175429@fat-controller.cs.bham.ac.uk> cah@cs.bham.ac.uk (Ceri Hopkins) writes:
>When was the last time someone received a non-EEC passport? I believe
>different passport offices switched over at different times -- can
>anyone confirm this? When I renewed mine from Peterborough in
>1989/1990 (?) it was the old black oversized rigid type.

Peterborough issued me with an old-style black one on 20th Jan 1990.
The earliest red one I have seen was issued Mar/Apr of that year.
(And they don't stand up anywhere near as well to the battering a passport
can receive in trouser pockets.)

-Bob
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:19620 soc.culture.usa:10259
From: richardg@idca.tds.philips.nl (Richard Grear)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: bathrooms - the German style
Date: 27 Jan 93 11:25:03 GMT
Reply-To: richardg@nofssrv.syssup.tds.philips.nl (Richard Grear)
Disclaimer: This is not necessarily the opinion of anyone else

In <C13q75.7Gq@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:

>Is this a deep psychological effect of the Wide Open Spaces on the American
>psyche?  That, in the same way that they sprawl their legs and baggage
>everywhere on UK public transport, Americans even need room for their
>jobbies to spread out and float free in the unconfined expanse of a private
>ocean?
I get the impression that a significant proportion of the US population are 
obese and therefore "pooping" into a UK style bowl might be somewhat akin to 
a brit trying to poop into a sherry glass.

>-- 
>--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
>17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
>INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
>BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In antici........                                                  ......pation
                        richardg@ccm.tds.philips.nl
                            hlde01::grear_r
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In antici........                                                  ......pation
                        richardg@ccm.tds.philips.nl
                            hlde01::grear_r
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: "Nadine Smith" <nmsmith@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu>
Subject: seperate hot and cold water taps in the UK
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:38:09 GMT


	Could someone please tell a confused American (no jokes, please!)
	why the hot and cold water taps are seperate in the UK?
	And why if there is only one faucet is the hot and cold
	water kept seperate until it comes out of the tap? 
				Thanks,
					Nadine Smith
					nmsmith@bio.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british