HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rpalmer@Think.COM (Ralph Palmer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 13 Nov 92 16:54:18 GMT

I feel you do a great job keeping the group focused and out
of the kind of crap that drags down talk.politics.guns.  If
something works, don't fix it especially to keep one individual
happy.  If mister Ben wants change let him start his own group
rec.guns.ben and be done with it.

I can't believe that people would give you crap given the amount
of work you put into the file.  I vote NO CHANGES!

					Ralph Palmer
					rpalmer@think.com
From: gonzalez@bbn.com (Jim Gonzalez)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Small autos for carry
Date: 8 Nov 92 13:26:20 GMT

In article <199211061827.AA19419@cherokee.advtech.uswest.com> 
  kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin) writes:
#
#How about a S&W 3913? After doing some survey on what are available
#in the market, I think it is a good choice for small to medium size
#people. What do you guys think?

Ayoob did a favorable review of the 3913 in American Handgunner two
years ago.  He was carrying it every day at LFI I this summer, and it
concealed very well in his LFI rig (in-the-waistband carry).  Anyone
who has read his stuff knows that he considers himself physically
small.  My wife and I tried one at Riley's (a rental range affiliated
with the former NRA president's store in NH) a few times, and really
liked the way it shot.  

#BTW, what are the differences between a S&W 3913 and a S&W 3913 Lady Smith?

As Greg Booth pointed out, the word "LadySmith" is etched on the side,
and the grips _are_ different, but _only_ in color (gray instead of 
black).  I compared, by ruler and eyeball, so I'm quite sure of this.

The key _physical_ difference, as Greg mentioned, is the frame.  The
3913 runs roughly straight back and then down from the muzzle to the
trigger guard, while the LadySmith (3913LS) tapers more.  If you plan
to carry in a purse (this isn't a pocket gun, unless you're wearing
BDU's) or use strictly as a house gun, this isn't an issue.  If you
plan to carry in a holster, you have a problem.  The 3913 and 6906
(their double-stack compact 9mm) have the same frame dimensions forward
of the trigger guard, so there are _lots_ of holsters that will fit the
3913.  I've seen _none_ in stores for the 3913LS, unless you count the
nylon "one-size-fits-all (badly)" stuff, like that crap from Uncle
Mike's.  So, you may have to special-order, from a narrower selection
of holsters.

				-Jim.
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Old problem, late report
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:18:22 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

A few months ago I posted to rec.guns asking for suggestions for a
problem I was having with a new Remington 700 VS in .308.  The problem
was that reloads in new or once fired brass using accepted load data
had some percentage of the primers loosened and backed out of the
pockets.  

I'd already eliminated the obvious things - pressure, brass sizing,
etc.  Headspace couldn't be a problem - new rifle just out of the box,
right?  To put it as my son would: NOT!

Finally, applying the "check it anyway" rule I slipped off during
lunch to a smith's place, slipped in a .308 no-go gage, pulled the
firing pin from the bolt and carefully closed the bolt.  No
hesitation, so there's no telling just how far off the headspace was.

In hindsight the problem is (was) obvious.  I shipped off the rifle to
the factory, and got it back last week.  I went back to my friend's
place and check the headspace.  A nice tight closing on a go gage.  I
took the rifle out this last weekend and shot it again, and the groups
were fine, and the headspace didn't slip a bit.  Of course I've now
got a bunch of brass that's been stretched beyond limits and had one
head sep, but I'll check all of the cases for stretch and likely go
back to a new batch.

So, the moral: Even if it can't be so it should be checked, particularly
when the check is cheaper than the fix if you go on.

-- 
Russ Kepler, posting from home   bbxrbk!russ@bbx.basis.com
Will hack unix for food
From: bercov@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (John Bercovitz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: "Cooler Powders", Say what?
Date: 7 Nov 92 00:34:29 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California

In article <1992Nov6.145526.13265@cbnewse.cb.att.com> sfaber@ihlpb.att.com 
(Steven R Faber) writes:

##From article <1992Nov5.155632.22058@ra.msstate.edu>, by dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb):

## If you have seen this month's American Rifleman, there is an article
## by Finn Aagaard on "cooler burning" nitrocotton powders from the UK.
## The idea is that these powders burn cooler while still pushing the
## bullet at the same velocity. This, we are told, will reduce barrel
## erosion. Now thermodynamics was never my strong suit, but I am having
## trouble understanding how a powder can burn "cooler" and still produce
## the same pressure and, hence, the same velocity. Mr. Aagaard's article
## did little, to put it mildly, to explain this or prove that it was
## true.

#Seems that if it were cooler, you could compensate by using a greater
#charge if the burn rate was suitably adjusted. This would not save
#on total energy.  Otherwise you would somehow have to reduce the
#average molecular weight of the product gases.  I would think that to
#get a cooler powder you would end up with more high heat capacity
#heavier gases so it would be tough to go in the direction of
#cooler with lighter gases. I'll have to think about this one some
#more and try and quantify some.

One caveat on this one which you've probably already recognized:
The force on the base of the bullet is the integral of all those 
collisions of gas molecules with said base.  It's a momentum thing.
This is just another way of saying that pressure is averaging
momentum transfer over area and time.  Now if peak pressures are
the same for the two propellants (peak pressure occurs when the bullet
is near the case and moving slowly) then the propellant with the
more massive gas molecules will have slower-moving molecules.  And
that's the rub.  Because when the bullet gets up to speed, those
molecules have a lower delta V with respect to the base of the
bullet.  (By the perfect gas law, the density of the molecules is 
about the same in both cases, I would think.)

This is why gas guns were so popular for high speed impact experiments
prior to the rail guns and such.  A typical gas gun has something like
a 460 WM driving a piston into one end of a helium-filled chamber the 
other end of which has a rupture disc in it.  There is a very short
connection from the rupture disc to the base of the projectile.  With
this little puppy you can lay 10 or 20 thousand feet per second on a
low mass projectile while conventional propellants will only give you
4500 to 5000 fps if you want to be semi-practical about it.  

John Bercovitz     (JHBercovitz@lbl.gov)
From: crs@beta.lanl.gov (Charlie Sorsby)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Unique questions
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:44:46 GMT
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory

In article <Bx944r.Cvs@fc.hp.com> scot@hpfcla.fc.hp.com (Scot Heath) writes:
= 
= CYA syndrom on Lee's part.  It is much safer to err in this manner.
= I use volumetric measuring device tables only as a starting point.  I then
= weigh the charge and adust the volume as needed.  I have NEVER had a table
= supplied by the manufacturer be correct or wrong in the "throws more than
= they say" direction.

I agree BUT...  :)  I seem to recall that, with slow-burning
powders there's a potential problem (is it with rifle cartridges
only?) with *light* loads.  Something about detonation or something
like that?

Of course they could be playing the odds--too much powder is almost
always bad news while too little is only occasionally so...

I guess that'w why we should all have a good powder balance, eh?


-- 
Best,

Charlie "Older than dirt" Sorsby				"I'm the NRA!"
	  crs@lanl.gov
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Psychology in Defense
Date: 8 Nov 92 13:26:36 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <1992Nov6.070226.28533@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
##I'm not so sure: A friend once _accidentally_ scared a burgaler into 
##jumping out a second story window. She had just finished cleaning it,
##and racked a round to see that the action was working smoothly. As
##soon as she did, she heard braking glass in the next room: The
##window had been pried/forced part-way open, the broken _outwards_
##(with the frame bent and a fair amount of blood on it). Someone was
##running away down the alley outside and below the window. Apparently
##someone had forced the window open, squeezed in, heard the shotgun
##being racked and _left_ in quite a hurry...

#	I heard this same story!   We must have the same FOAFs!
#		Urban ledgend?

The story might be getting aroung a bit, but no it isn't a friend
of a friend or an urban ledgend: It happened to a real, actual,
close friend of mine... I have heard several, similar friend of
friend stories like this, however. I know this knid of story isn't
really good evidence, however: Some people have suggested that
a criminal might be _encouraged_ by a shotgun being racked (on the
grounds that the user is an idiot who hadn't bothered to load his
gun until now.) Are there _any_ reported cases of such a thing?
We seem to have one theory, backed up by alot of stories (which
may or may not be representative) versus another theory standing
on its own...


                                              Frank Crary
                                              CU Boulder
From: wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Chinese steel-core 7.62x39? Re: Armor Piercing rounds
Date: 7 Nov 92 02:09:10 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1debnjINNmup@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> howardjg@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (John G Howard) writes:
#In article <1992Nov5.210213.6286@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com  
#(E. Michael Smith) writes:
## In article <9211041731.aa29095@claudius.pica.army.mil>  
#erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:
## 
## #This is moot, however. The intent was to ban something; one is enough  
#for
## #that. There was even a scare about the cheap steel-core Chinese 7.62x39
## #being banned when a pistol in that chambering came out.
## 
## The local gun store sells Chinese 7.62x39 by the large crate (two zinc
## cans inside).  How do I know if it is, or isn't, steel-core?  Is it 
## all steel core?  (and here I thought it would all be plain lead core
## unless clearly marked ...) 
#
#	Mr. Smith,
#		I have shot lots of this exact round and they were ALL  
#STEEL CENTERED ROUNDS!!!
#
#		Proof of this was the richochet that came back off a 2"  
#thick steel plate (75 yards away) and hit a person standing 20 yards  
#behind me with LOTS of force- fortunately for his heavy coat he only got a  
#bruise.  The total distance is of course 170 yards!!!  The piece we picked  
#up was the bullet and it was steel!!  


I've seen a similar incident at another club. A member was
hit by a steel core fired by an SKS which bounced back off the 100 yd
plates and struck his arm. He was nicked and brushed slightly.

However, there is lots of lead core around at virtually the same price.
In general, the brown lacquered case Norinco is lead core while the
brass wash case has a steel core bullet. Some of the brass case is
lead core but not generally. You'll usually see this advertised
as lead core or as target ammo. It is actually more accurate than
the steel core.

-- 
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Wayne J. Warf -- WWARF@ucs.indiana.edu -- I speak for myself only  |
 | Midterm Countdown-Bill and the Congress have to '94 to screw it up |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: reidld@ecf.toronto.edu (Lloyd D Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 13 Nov 92 04:10:44 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility

short:  leave rec.guns as is.

long:

I find rec.guns to be an exceptionally good news group.  Plenty of technical
discussion (though never enough!).  Also, just enough political stuff
seems to 'slip by' :-) to keep things interesting (I think you generally
move stuff off to t.p.g. at more or less the right time; after a few
relevant (informative! yeah, thats the ticket...) comments have been
made, but before it degenerates into 5-level-deep quoting and name-calling).

The misc. information posts (different state gun laws, what shotgun should
I buy, etc.) are mostly interesting, but I live for the hard technical stuff.
I enjoy the stuff about pistols and shotguns (except that the '.45-9mm' is
getting a bit boring...), but talk about rifles and you will certainly
have my undivided attention.

With respect to your insertion of MODERATOR comments [...], I cannot recall
finding these excessive, non-enjoyable, or non-informative.  Although it
is possible that some feel it unfair that you always beat everyone to
the draw :-)

I seem to receive a batch of articles 2-3 times per day.  I can't understand
how you find time do this, but I am both pleased and impressed!

Just as a matter of personal curiosity, has the guy who is calling for your
ouster contributed articles as well as criticism?  Not that it really
matters, its just that I don't recognize the name.  Anyhow, I am assuming
that my reply will be but one of thousands (for!), so I shouldn't keep
you any longer.


nil illegitmatus carborundum,

Daniel Chisholm (posting from prof's acct.)
From: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 45 ACP, 9mm
Date: 13 Nov 92 12:29:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: cherokee.199211130438.AA22712
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

In article <1dserfINNjgs@male.EBay.Sun.COM> 49ers@eb5ts4.EBay.Sun.COM (Renie Maycon) writes:
#can anyone tell me what is the best kind of ammo to buy for home use in
#
#45 ACP, 9mm what is the best grain to buy? 

Let me quote a sentence by Jan Libourel, who is a gun writer for Guns & Ammo.

	If there is any one thing that my work as an editor and
	writer for Guns & Ammo and other Peterson firearms publications
	has taught me, it is that there is no "best" gun.

You have to ask yourself questions like: can you handle the recoil from
a .45 ACP? Do you need the extra fire power that most 9mm pistols can provide?
( An immediate question will be: are your hands big enough to hold the
the double-column grip? ) Do you live in a very cold place where most
people wear very heavy clothes? 

Well, I'll leave it to others to tell you what other questions you want to
ask yourself. :)

I chose a 9mm because I thought I needed the extra fire power.

#Does any body own a Glock 21, ...

However, it is universally agreed that since a Glock is so butt ugly,
you can always use it to scare the bad guys, which is a big plus in
home defense. ;)

David
-- 
 K. David Lin, Ph.D.              | E-mail: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com  
 Communication Services Research  | Defend your life with style! -- Beretta
 U S WEST Advanced Technologies   | Disclaimer: Only personal opinions
From: ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Norwegian Krag Question
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:17:51 GMT
Organization: NMSU Computer Science


	While looking for something else, I ran across an 
	article about the Krag-Jorgenson rifle of the 1890's.
	This lead me to the Hornady book to inspect loads
	and I opened the book to the wrong page: 6.5x55 Swedish
	Mauser. My eye was caught by this line; "The Norwegian
	Army issued Krag rifles in this caliber late in the
	19th Century". 

	So; do any of these 6.5 Swede Krag-Jorgenson rifles
	still exist? Are they collectors items, or "shootable"
	or something in between?

	Any comment from Norway?
From: cower@SSD.intel.com (Rich Cower)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: re: fluted barrels
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:23:05 GMT
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division (SSD), Intel


A recent issue of Presesion Shooting mentioned they were going to contact
6 or so barrel makers and get the story on fluted barrels. I'm sure it will
appear in a future issue.

rich
From: wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Wanted: concealable self defense gun for men
Date: 5 Nov 92 14:38:19 GMT
Organization: Indiana University


#In article <40519@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> ph600fcy@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Matthew Harrington) writes:
##
##What would be a good handgun for this self defense scenario?
##
##I'm a young man who usually wears slacks and a shirt, without a
##jacket.  So, obviously jacket holsters are out.  The only other
##places for concealing a handgun seem to be in the pockets or in a
##calf holster.  Pocketable guns must be small -- does this detract
##from their self-defense capability?  How about derringers?
##
##I guess this leaves me with the calf holster option.  Does anyone
##have experience with these?  How about the wallet holsters?

##
##The next step is to look for guns, since my .357 is too large to be
##concealed easily, except in a jacket holster.


I have to take issue with the limits you've imposed based on
preconceived notions. Are you thin or is your body weight 
proportional to your height? If so, it is quite easy to conceal
a full size handgun wearing the clothes you mentioned. Jeans
with a sturdy belt plus a cotton shirt designed to be worn 
not tucked in are ideal concealment. I've done it, I know. I've
carried a Browning Hi-Power all over past police in the states
I have licenses for and have never been stopped. No one has ever
mentioned noticing it. I use a inside-the-pants holster the right
hip. The sleekness of the semi-auto allows it to hug the body <the
cylinder of the revolvers makes the butt project out making this
kind of concealment difficult>. Stay away from ankle holsters.
They're hard to get to and insecure.

In addition, the type of gun you carry should dictate the choice
of clothes not the choice of clothes dictating the type of gun you 
carry. Carry what it will take to protect your life and design the
wardrobe around it.

-- 
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Wayne J. Warf -- WWARF@ucs.indiana.edu -- I speak for myself only  |
 |"Government is like fire, a dangerous servant and a fearful master" |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: se08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth Adam Eliot)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Glock (& lock)
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:57:37 GMT

I understand that this particular handgun has caused some contention
(read: flame war) in the past.  If anyone saved any previous (and
relevant) posts, that might suffice to answer my queries please forward
them to me.  Please don't start any massive combustion battles on my
account...

That being said, I've heard contradictory opinions reagarding the
"safety" on the Glock (model 17,19 etc). A rec.guns person (who has been
informative in the past) was of the opinion that the Glock was the best
of both worlds with SA, the trigger mounted safety, and the relatively
heavy pull.  A guy at the gun store on the other hand opined that
Glock's been pulling the wool over everyones eyes and that a SA withough
a REAL safety was stupid.
 
I shoot a Glock 17 at the range yesterday and loved it.  It feels right
and looks great.  But I am interested in carry, and am concerned aboit
having the right amount of 'readiness' and 'safety'.

Also, regarding Glock quality.  The guy at the range said that the gun
had been "abused."  This was as explanation for why the slide wouldn't
stay open after the last shot, and would sometimes slam shut without the
release lever being pushed.  Any experiences out there with excessive
wear and tear?

-Seth
__________________________________________________________________________
"We... have no use for adventures.  Nasty disturbing uncomfortable
things!  Make you late for dinner!"  -- B. Baggins 

Seth Eliot,            Dept of Material Science and Engineering
                       Carnegie Mellon Univerity,   Pittsburgh, PA
ARPA    :eliot+@cmu.edu            --------------------------------------
   or    se08+@andrew.cmu.edu
Bitnet:  se08%andrew@cmccvb        
---------------------------------
From: mwm@aps.anl.gov (Michael W. McDowell)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 13 Nov 92 14:21:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: mcs.1992Nov13.134937.7865
Organization: Argonne National Lab -- APS

Please continue to run this group exactly as you have in the
past.  I rarely even attempt to wade through most of the 
unmoderated groups any more as it's a bit like watching reruns.  Your comments are insightful and IMO you moderate with a very light hand.  Most of us appreciate your time and effort very much.

Mike McDowell
From: minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov (Minh Lang)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Barrel break-in
Date: 6 Nov 92 20:00:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: elroy.9211061623.AA00397
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory

In article <5NOV199212205701@venus.lerc.nasa.gov> Stefan,
smpod@venus.lerc.nasa.gov writes:
#Ed's Red is a commercial test bore cleaner that is a slight modification
#of Ed Harris recipe.  If anyone is interested in Ed's original recipe,
#let me know and I'll post it.

Please post it. Thanks.

  == Minh ==