From: joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP)
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 14:00:21 GMT


In article <friday.713720778@well.sf.ca.us> friday@well.sf.ca.us (Carol Anne 
Ogdin) writes:

>[lot's of interesting (though long known) stuff deleted]

>  There are a few more, but those are the main points.  Unfortunately, I have
>  not seen a book from which one could learn NLP; it is an experiential skill,
>  and can only be learned by practice.  Most people will read about NLP from
>  a book, skip all the exercises, conclude they "know" NLP, 

wait a minute, you just said that you haven't seen a book from which one could
learn NLP. I have heard that it is not possible to learn NLP without paying
bucks to a certified teacher; that in fact people attempting to teach these
techniques without the imprimatur of the official group risk lawsuits. Could
you clarify this?

>							      and then go about
>  giving a NLP a bad name by practicing something else altogether.  

as far as giving NLP a bad name, wasn't there a murder or something like
that among the original founders? 

>								    It's sort
>  of like learning calculus from a text without ever having done an exercise
>  or solved a single real problem (funny, people wouldn't then call themselves
>  mathematicians...but they will claim behavioral skills!).

this whole bit sounds suspiciously like the trip played by AMORC (and I am
sure many other groups). they claim to have 'hidden knowledge', the mark
(excuse me, the neophyte) pays his money for several years and is eventually
taught stuff that is in the public domain and in fact explicated in easily
available books. to avoid the neophyte obviating the necessity for spending
these large chunks of pelf, they are specifically warned away from certain
books and authors.

some of the many chasidic jewish groups (theoretically all, but well....)
are in fact initiatory groups. all but one have 'living masters' (tzaddikim)
and an 'experiential' trip. some in fact state rather clearly that it is
unimportant that the individual chasid be illuminated (and discourage
individual qabalistic study), but should adhere to an illuminated tzaddik.
most chasidic groups do consist of 'courts' of families owing fealty (in
all senses of that word) to some tzaddik. there is one group, however (and
I am very frustrated that I cannot call their name to mind right now) who
are called 'the dead chasidim'. their founder wrote up the whole trip in
books and using these books (the story goes), one can attain illumination.

let it be understood that one does not simply read these books. the process
of reading them sets certain internal forces in motion that may not take
full effect for years (this particular group of chasidim, BTW, are not the
only people to follow such an initiatory trip, and their founder not the
only person who has written books like this. MinT&P is (I think deliberately)
a book of this sort (sufis call books 'dead teachers')).

finally, there is nothing new under the sun. whatever the NLP folks have
'discovered' has been known for hundreds or thousands of years. perhaps
they have invented a new system of terminology. if you would care to elucidate
some NLP techniques, I am sure we could have some interesting discussions
and comparisons with other systems.

josh
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