HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Host/Priest Communication:  What should I expect?
Date: 6 Nov 92 22:36:54 GMT
Organization: Red Wolfe @ The Wolves Den
X-Md4-Signature: da1707b55a3bc4a8d746161c7956de96

In <CLR.92Nov3225501@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> clr@mentor.cc.purdue.edu writes:
>i'm fairly new at all this type of stuff, and i had a few questions
>about what i should expect from a ritual with an experienced priest.

	Experienced at what?  Making a ritual into a power trip?
I'd certainly have a great deal of trouble dealing with this sort of a
situation, and likely call off the whole thing!

	If it is the space in which I am living, and I felt the least
bit uncomfortable with the arrangements, I'd find the ritual a different
space to work in quickly.

	Unless there are health reasons (allergies or such) animals who
live in the space should not be restricted.

	As for personality conflicts, sometimes they can't be
eliminated, but have to be dealt with.  Even so, the implications that
you have no control over the planning or participation in this ritual
tell me that there is no respect for you as an individual and you would
be much better off to not participate.

	In another thread, there is some commentary about the need for
planning andor secrecy in a ritual, and it depends on the participants
and styles of the folks involved.  When dealing with a small group who
intimately know each other, secrecy and spontaniety are big plusses, in
a "public" ritual, with folks who may or may not know anything at all
about the purposes, there is a different need to explain and have things
planned.

	In this "problem" case, only you have the knowledge of whether
what is developing is "right" for you.  And if you have any strong
misgivings about how its going, you *need* to object before something
happens that all will regret.
-- 
G. Wolfe Woodbury @ The Wolves Den, Durham NC	[This site is NOT affiliated  ]
wolfe@wolves.durham.nc.us			[with Duke University! Idiots!]
UUCP: ...!duke!wolves!wolfe      <Standard Disclaimers apply>
    Above All, we celebrate!  --Celebrate the Circle, Statement of Purpose.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: casspa@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Paul Cass)
Subject: Re: Loo seats (was: Re: hate and anger)
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 00:29:32 GMT

In article <2AF9F8DE.22416@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>
>Chris, imagine this.  It is now 2:00am, and you have just been awakened
>by massive hydraulic pressure from a nice sound sleep.  You get up
>(quietly so as not to awaken to sleeping body next to you), and stagger
>your sorry, bleary-eyed ass to the bathroom.  Down go the drawers, if
>you wear `em to bed, and you plunk yourself down in the full expectation
>of having a little plastic oval stop your downward motion before your
>ass hits cold water with a serious splash and your feet jerk out from
>under you in shock.  
>
Last year I had a rather extensive bout with the Montezuma Quick Step that
caused one of those 2:00am awakenings.  No lights, no tiptoeing, just a
frantic dash to the toilet before I decorated the floor.  Unfortunately
when I sat down I discovered the cat was getting a drink.  _Nothing_ about
the ensueing experience was pleasant for either me or the cat.
Maiden Bless
Paul

-- 
                          * * * * * * *
"It is possible to join forces, to identify common goals, and to agree on
 common action." - U.N. World Commission on Development and Environment
		       casspa@jacobs.cs.orst.edu
From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: raising children
Distribution: world
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 92 01:45:03 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <Bx91tI.AxL@access.digex.com> corun@access.digex.com writes:

 >                                              It's only supreme ego that
 > makes a person say they are BETTER than another,

Or perhaps, a supreme sense of insecurity which cycles and recycles
through the society to perpetuate such competitive distrust which must
view everything different as a threat, and respond accordingly.

Freud never intended that a robust ego should be regarded a bad thing
at all, although if I had to live in the US I expect I would have to
develop such an inflated ego that says I am better than anyone else,
just to survive.

It gets bad enough here just posting to the Internet . . .

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
From: russell@Apple.COM (Russell Williams)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Tipper Gore? (Re: the US elections...)
Date: 12 Nov 92 17:11:02 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <2B005554.20979@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>As far as Madonna goes -- my jury is still out.  She comes across as a
>complete slut -- the typical casting of any woman with her own
>sexuality, and I'm not sure if that's my socialization of "Any woman
>with her own sex is a slut" talking, or whether or not Madonna is indeed
>working to portray just that slutty image.  

I never paid much attention to Madonna because I didn't care for her
music. But I went to see her film, Truth or Dare, and was extremely
impressed. "Slut" or not, she's no passive sex object; not a vapid,
vulnerable, pouting  Playboy bunny type. She is a very strong, competent 
woman.  Watching her manage her tour, face down the Canadian morals police,
den-mother her gay backup singers, and so forth raised my level of
respect for her considerably.

My wife saw some pictures from Madonna's book ("Sex") somewhere and decided
she wanted a copy. We haven't finished it but we both like it a lot
so far.  It's very much in the same vein as the song posted here. The message
is sex-positive, playful, and assertive, not "I'm available". There's
also a certain element of deliberately pushing the boundaries, of
purposefully tweaking peoples' taboos. The ideas
in her book -- both her serious thoughts and her fantasies -- are similar
to many I've heard expressed by feminist Pagan women.

After Madonna showed up on one of the talk shows flirting with Sandra 
Bernhardt a while back, On Our Backs dubbed Madonna "Our Lady of happy 
sexuality". I think Madonna is promoting a view of sex that is 
positive, celebrates diversity, and presumes that women have a right
to define their own sexuality. Each of these points makes many
people uncomfortable, and she is making all of them in an extremely
public way. She's making lots of money on it, but it's *her* message; 
she's not someone else's packaged product. 
-- 
Russell Williams
Not speaking for Apple Computer
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 10 Nov 92 01:36:06 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <lftljgINNlq@news.bbn.com> dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:
>
>I'm not going to call you a Tipper groupie or a castrating anything, but
>I do think you and Richard don't understand Tipper's real agenda.  If it's
>still available, PLEASE get a copy of her group's literature and read it.
>Do you think most of the space is devoted to the women-hating, violent
>lyrics that you object to?  Nope.  Most of the space is devoted to why
>we need labels for "occult materials."  Who does she include in occult
>materials?  George Harrison, for one, for daring to use Hindu symbolism.
>What offends Tipper and Susan Baker is not necessarily what offends you. 
>Their organization was against *us*, every bit as much as it was against
>Prince or Madonna.

Glad you mentioned this; I'll try to get hold of some stuff.  This IS
unacceptable.

I'm amazed she's married to someone who seriously reads and cites stuff
like Marija Gimbutas and Riane Eisler and talks about how we have to
change our spiritual relationship to the Earth. 

Blessings,
Janis
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Tipper Gore (or "Gee, crow tastes like shit, doesn't it?)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 10 Nov 92 03:44:20 GMT

Many thanks to the people who have posted things about Tipper Gore that
I didn't previously know.  I was unaware of her stance on these things
and how extreme she really was and likely is yet.  Obviously this
involves a radical rethinking of this entire fiasco; her position is
clearly unacceptable and yes, even dangerous.  Thanks for clearing it up
for me and the others on the net.

Blessings and thanks for the crow,
Janis
From: swaim@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Parks Swaim)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Pagan BBS's?
Date: 5 Nov 92 07:57:45 GMT
Organization: Rice University

In article <1992Nov5.014123.24568@gallant.apple.com> Ken Laws <batman@apple.apple.com> writes:
>A friend of mine is looking for Pagan BBS's (OK, I am too). She'd also like
>info on Women's Rights and Gay Rights BBS's, if anyone knows of any.
In Houston (Area code 713) we have
The Brewer's Witch 272-7350

Gay BBS's (dunno if they've got areas for gay rights or not.)
California Dreamin II 783-3106
Dignity/Houston   988-8217
The Exchange      521-2191
Houston Alternative Lifestyles 530-7500
There are probably others, but these are the ones I saw browsing through
the local listings. 

Hope that helps,



-- 
Mike Swaim            | Canada will become the next world power
swaim@owlnet.rice.edu | and they will work to ENSLAVE all the nations
Disclamer: I lie      | of your planet. -Ricardo
Hastur Hastur Hastur Hastur Hastur Hastur Hastur Hasdtr yy['u [{}_+
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Questions 
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 15:20:27 GMT

jknife@desire.wright.edu writes:


>	From reading some of the flames on here, I feel that I'm really going
>out on a limb with this post.  Go easy on me.

>	I really just want to learn more about your beliefs.  I am a student at
>Wright State University.  A couple of years ago, Brother Jed was on campus 
>preaching up a storm (and an abusive crowd) and one Wiccan was talking to him a
>lot.  A talked to this guy a little bit later on, and he told me a little, but
>really all I got from it was the "An it harm none .. . " saying.  

>	I'd like to know more about this religion historically.  Where and when
>did it originate?  

Well, Wicca itself is about half a century old, though it draws from very old
traditions.  Whether there is any direct link to older traditions is still 
debated.  I tend to think that there is no direct link, but people whose
opinion I respect (such as Doreen Valiente) seem to have reason to believe that
there is a link.  I remain undecided until there is enough evidence to judge.
Wicca, however, is clearly new, as the artificial name shows.  (Wicca, 
pronounced Wick-uh, is apparently a misread of the Old English spelling of
witch, "wicca/wicce", which is pronounced witch-ah/witch-eh.)  Wicca was
created in England, probably in the 1940's, by people with Masonic and
Ceremonialist backgrounds.

>	And how is this religion practiced today?

In many different ways.  :-)  The basic format is a ritual, beginning with
preparing a space (casting the circle), inviting the God/desses, raising
energy and working with it, and ending with a shared cup and often some food.

This is obviously the generic answer.  I would suggest reading Scott
Cunningham's _Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner_ as a primer.  (Fair
warning--his book is a bit fluffy, but it is a basic intro.)  If you are still
interested, try _The Spiral Dance_ by Starhawk; that is much more in-depth.
After that, stop reading for a while and just start practicing.  Don't worry
about doing things "wrong"--there is no right or wrong way, only what works
for each individual or group.

If you have further, more specific questions, feel free to email me.

I hope you find what the right path for you--no matter what that path is.


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ag055@yfn.ysu.edu (Ward Chanley)
Subject: Re: Women and Men Witches
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 02:27:04 GMT


Re: Why would I wish this on my daughters (or my sons)?

Again, it goes back to the issue of psychological or 
social differences between men and women; matriarchy 
wasn't/isn't the "mirror image" pf patriarchy and
there is evidence to suppourt the idea that when 
you put women n power, they exercise that power 
in ways far different than their male counterparts.
The feminist CR groups of the 70s abhorred jeiracrhy
of any kind, and Dianic craft inherrited that 
tendancy; the role of HPS rotates among all 
coveners more often than not.

When Stehphen says he's a female supremacist, I 
think that comes from the realization that a 
female oriented culture was (and would be) far 
more inclusive than a patriarchal one.

--
From: deron.douglas@canrem.com (deron douglas)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: samhain & spiral danc
Date: 10 Nov 92 01:37:36 GMT
Reply-To: "deron douglas" <deron.douglas@canrem.com>
Distribution: alt
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

Hello... I hope you can help ?

The hardest part I suppose is to ask for this from a stranger without
imposing, but I've been reading most of the threads in most of the
conferances I could download inorder to find direction.

In short, a few months earlier I had read a local newspaper article regarding
Wicca.  This had the effect of acting as a catalyst in that I found my personal
beliefs and practices were the same as those I read about Wicca.

For example, I've been reading Tarot cards since 12 years (I'm 32),
I read/study Runes, following the "hunches" that are 99% accurate and
have always felt a connectivness with the natural world...
(I am Amerind but not traditional)...

I wish to pursue this further since I believe I am headed down a path that
I am meant to follow.....

The problem is, where to I go ?  I've tried finding "good" reading material
and have tried to stay away from the usual "hogus pogus".

Thanx for your guidance in this.....

Sincerely....Deron




                 111111111111111111
                 111   w D}w    11100
                 11111111111111111100
                   000000000000000000
---
 ~ DeLuxe} 1.12 #815 ~ <<<<<<< - Mississauga - Ontario - Canada - >>>>>>>
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: shrdlu@willow.sdd.trw.com (Lynda L. True)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Men's Spirituality (oops, forgot the address)
Date: 13 Nov 92 16:02:08 GMT
Organization: TRW Inc., Redondo Beach, CA

In article <2B02AEA2.67B@deneva.sdd.trw.com> shrdlu@willow.sdd.trw.com
  (Lynda L. True) forgets to write: 

>Presenting... "The Green Man" which is a magazine for Pagan men. I
>quote from the subscription form that I have here in front of me...

The Green Man
P. O. Box 641
Point Arena, California 95468

(Sorry, I guess I was too rushed...)

Lynda
-- 

shrdlu@rowan.sdd.trw.com (Lynda L. True)
Work Phone - (310) 812-1660 or (310) 812-1570
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: acarr@pell2l1.alleg.edu (Amelia Carr)
Subject: Re: Tarot Spreads
Organization: Allegheny College
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 00:27:27 GMT

In article <1dou1sINNj1t@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu>  
sjgavula@css.itd.umich.edu (Susan Gavula) writes:
> 
> I have a file of different spreads that folks have used to
> read tarot.  If there is enough interest I will repost the file.
> If you want to submit a spread that works for you just email it
> and I will include it in my file.
> 
> Susan
I'd be interested in seeing this file reposted.
Blessings,
Amelia
From: Steve.Dugas@iphase.infoserv.com (Steve Dugas)
Sender: FredGate@iphase.infoserv.com
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Falling in Love
Date: 13 Nov 92 00:56:00 EST

Bravo! I agree with Alisa, my god/desses are fallable too.  Like the
 folks in the Church Of All Worlds say: "THOU ART GOD/GODDESS".  It
 has a lot of good meanings.  I want my SO to be a goddess so long as
 to her I am a god.  We are still equal but also celebrate the
 devinity within each of us.  Why can't I worship her if she worships
 me?  I don't think I could survive a relationship that existed only
 on the physical plane.
.
                                   Steve Dugas

 * Origin: U_PAGAN: <<<<<<<<<< RE-ELECT NOBODY! >>>>>>>>>> (1:112/29)
From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Bowing out of this . . .
Distribution: world
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 07:19:52 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents

People,

About from my own two boys, in our immediate neighbourhood there are
17 children aged between two and ten, and a further 12 aged up to
fifteen. They have the right to claim my emotional and intellectual
energy well before the children who post here to alt.pagan, so I must
save it for them.

To my dear lovers, such beautiful women whose sweet embrace shall ever
linger, we must part.

Adieu, adieu, adieu.

Gil

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
From: GRS00045@CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU (Neal Townley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Looking for pagans in W. N.C.
Date: 12 Nov 92 22:53:52 GMT
Organization: Militant Society of Bards
NNTP-Posting-Host: alf.appstate.edu
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24



	Unto the Pagans of the net, does Niall MacFarlane send greetings!

I am looking for any pagan groups in western N.C. to steer people to.
I personally am in Boone, N.C. but I have heard of awful nasty things
going on around here that I have no information on. If anyone
could fill me in on things, and help me find someone around here to talk to,
I would be highly appreciative..


Blessed be,
	Niall
From: thistle@brewich.hou.tx.us (Thistle)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: rats
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 21:05:00 CST
Organization: The Brewers' Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

This is for the person who wrote about friends having problems with welts 
on the arms.  This is because the claws are **sharp**.  Also, if they bed 
their rat down in cedar, I believe a tiny amount of cedar oil will remain 
on the claws, and will get under the skin causing irritation.  We have 
less of a problem since we changed to pine bedding.  We had to, since it 
is almost impossible to hold a rat still long enough to file its nails 
with an emery board.  It doesn't hurt them, but they don't like to be 
confined in a way that would permit their nails to be done.  Hope it 
helps.  Blessed Be, Thistle.

------------------
thistle@brewich.hou.tx.us (Thistle)
Origin: The Brewers' Witch BBS -- Houston, TX -- +1 713 272 7350
     "Silence is the voice of complicity" - Vote Early, Vote Often!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.magick
From: kanderso@reed.edu (Karl Anderson)
Subject: Re: Santeria
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 08:12:33 GMT
Summary: good book 

A good anthropological-type book on vo(o)d[oo,un] is _Tell My Horse_,
by Zora Neal Hurston.
k

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: heimberg@pacific.mitre.org (Jeff Heimberger)
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 12:34:01 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.233618.25115@radian.uucp> markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:
>
>"I don't think that you can be an atheist and a patriotic American"
>	- George Bush
>Proposition 9 (WA) & 2 (CO) were both set up by the xian funnymentalists that
>currently run the GOP.
>
>	is that enough of a start?

Yes, it is a good start, but it is somewhat less than a claim that
pagans around the country are being *systematically* denied their civil
rights because of their religion.  I believe that there are isolated
incidents and that someone with adequate resources, communications,
"connections," should be keeping track of them.  Perhaps "leaders" in
the pagan community could coordinate this (where is the UFP when you
need them? :-) ).

So the funnymentalists are well-organized, well-monied, work together,
and are focussed on an objective... perhaps we can learn a lesson?

BB,

Jeff H...

==============================================================================
 Jeff Heimberger                                 If I want your opinion, I'll
 heimberg@pacific.mitre.org                         read it in your entrails.
==============================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: hart0037@student.tc.umn.edu ()
Subject: Re: Pets
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:31:57 GMT

In article <qc14TB2w165w@brewich.hou.tx.us> thistle@brewich.hou.tx.us
(Thistle) writes: 

>I haven't read all the posts, but since this seems to be leading to
>"non-standard" companions, I'll put in two cents for my wife and I.  We
>have a rat named Rowan.  She is a white/tan Chinese hooded rat.  

   I will second the opinion that rats are **cool** creatures.  Since
people have been bringing up allergies, I add the following.  I know a
couple with two rats.  The wife, who isn't allergic to anything else, gets
huge welts on her arms if the rats walk on her.  The husband, who sneezes
at the mere thought of cats and dogs, has no apparent problem with rats.
   One benefit of rats is that they are easy to conceal if you are living
in a place that prohibits pets (HUGE grin :-) ).

  Sorry, no sig file yet.  I'm new to this and will be fortunate if this
even gets posted!  Amy


Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Subject: Re: Yhe church and Galielo
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:13:37 GMT
Organization: n.o.y.b
Keywords: ; 

In article <2AFC5090.4984@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>In article <BxD4nz.Gw2@umassd.edu> rolls@cis.umassd.edu (Frank Pinto) writes:
>>Hello all
>>
>>I;m new to this group, however, does any
>>one have any comment about the church finnaly
>>agreeing with Galileo about the center of the solar system?
>
>Just one:  DUH!
>
>Blessings,
>Janis
>
No, NO, Janis. That's Dum de dum-dum.
I read that they declared it to be "...a tragic misunderstanding...". Right.
It's probably about as near as the Pope'll get to saying "fergit Papal
infallibility, il Papa was ***->WRONG<-***". Let's see, Hitler and the Jews
had a "tragic misunderstanding, too", as did the Church & the Albignesians....

	mark, celebrating the Earth going around the Sun!

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Organization: LLNL
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 22:36:04 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.051810.18321@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek) writes:
>cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

: I'm amazed she's married to someone who seriously reads and cites stuff
: like Marija Gimbutas and Riane Eisler and talks about how we have to
: change our spiritual relationship to the Earth. 

>Lots of people have stayed married to a spouse who seems a bit looneytoons.
>That's amore for you.

	Or sometimes economic dependency.

	What would Tipper Gore live off of if she wasn't married to Al Gore?

/Loren


Newsgroups: alt.pagan