From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: Homosexual Jews. A serious question.
Keywords: homosexual jews
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus, Academic Computing Services
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 12:58:10 GMT

I had written something to the effect that the Orthodox community
would have no problem with a homosexual who practiced homosexuality
in private, and did not make it a public ussue.

Nora asks:
>What do you mean by "making it a public issue?" Do any of the
>following qualify?
>
>1) Working politically for protection from discrimination
>and assault for homosexuals

I know many non-homosexuals who want to protect homosexuals from
discrimination and assault; doing so suggests the person is
a liberal or libertarian, but not necessarily homosexual.
(Given that homosexuality is halakhically forbidden even
to  nonJews, there is the question of whether halakha demands
that halakhically-bound Jews  support certain kinds of secular
civil legislation.  But that's another issue.)

>2) Sharing a one-bedroom apartment with a member of their
>own sex, and not curtailing their hospitality to the point
>where nobody will ever see the inside of the apartment

If it's a two  bedroom apartment, I see  no reason to raise
any questions.  In the toughest case -- a studio apartment
with a single bed, I would have my personal suspicions (as I
would if a male and female were sharing an apartment).  The
key concept is "discretion."  

>3) Declining matchmaking offers on a consistent basis, even
>past the age when people in Orthodox communities often get
>nosy about why one is still unmarried and making no effort
>to change the fact

I know of such people in the Orthodox community.   While some
folks may harbor suspicions, nobody is willing to act on
those suspicions, or to spread lashon hara (rumors).  Such
men are fully accepted  in the Orthodox community, are given
aliyot, and serve as teachers.  

>4) Asking that people who are making nasty remarks about
>homosexuality please stop it, that it's offensive (the 
>same way, one hopes, that they would about any other form
>of prejudicial or bigoted statements)

People like that my be shunned for being libertarians :-).
But such actions do not justify accusing a person of
publicly practicing homosexuality.

>5) Refusing to lie when asked a direct question?

Who would ask such a question?  Rebbitizin Manners is shocked!
Rebbitizon Manners would answer: "I am really disappointed
that you would ask such a personal question.   I deeply believe
that sex is a beautiful and enchanting relation, but  it is
intensely personal, and is only the business of the three
people involved."  And then Rabbitizin Manners would return to her
davening.  (Sorry. You can take  Shimoff out of Adar, but
you can't take the Adar out of Shimoff.)
 
>There are ways that fairly intelligent people who tend to
>poke their noses into other people's business can find out
>without someone "making an issue of it", Eliot.

In a  sense, you are right.  Many people will suspect any unmarried
male  over 25 of practicing homosexuality.  But my guess is that,
at least in the Orthodox community, these suspicions could never be
acted upon if the homosexual individual is discreet.

My  main point is, again, that discreet practicing homosexuals will
not be discriminated against in the Orthodox community.  But when a 
person openly advocates homosexuality, he/she is in the position
of one who openly advocates any non-normative behavior -- and is
likely to face social sanctions ny the Orthodox community.

>	-Nora
>
>-- 
>Oseh shalom b'imromav, hu ya'aseh shalom aleinu v'al kol yisrael.
AMEN!


-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish