HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,rec.autos
Subject: Laser tactics question (was Re: BEL XKR-VII Still Any Good?)
Followup-To: rec.autos.driving
Date: 23 Nov 1992 11:40 PST
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
Summary: If you were a laser-toting cop, where would you hide?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

> I also got a lidar detactor ( a recent report in Car & Driver suggests 
> they may not be worth it but I figure I'd like to at least know they got 
> me and weren't making up numbers)

Has anybody on the net observed actual cops running laser, or better yet
(in a relative sort of way :) been popped with it personally?  I've got
an operating hypothesis, which may well be dashed with a ticket someday,
that a laser cop would be pretty conspicuous to an attentive driver. It
seems that he has to shoot you from a very shallow angle and that lining
up the shot takes a few seconds.

One glaring exception would be moving laser from an unmarked car behind 
you (in which case the cop and his presumably calibrated speedometer 
might well be able to pace you anyway).

These are the reasons (above and beyond their apparent ineffectiveness)
why I'm not inclined to buy a laser detector.  If the cops in my usual
haunts were known to use lasers, that might change my mind.

That kinda brings us back to the original question.  What do the cops in
your area and your probable trips actually use?  And how much protection
do you need?  The way I see it, the latest high-performance detectors are
a must for high-risk drivers, i.e., those who violate the speed limit by
an imprisonable margin, or are one point away from kissing off their
licenses, or simply live in an area where speed enforcement is a major
industry. (You'll note that the C&D detector test of a few months ago
was conducted exclusively in a VERY challenging scenario, hence the few-
mile ranges they reported.)  Those of us who live in tolerant states and
aren't into step-out-of-the-car-and-assume-the-position velocities can
probably scootch by with yesterday's technology for a few years yet.

If Santa can get a Corvette down the chimney or if for some unforseeable
reason we have to move to Massachusetts, I'll shell out for a  Valentine.  
But in my Taurus wagon, the only reason I'm likely to get a ticket is 
excessive dog slobber on the windows, so my old Uniden can just soldier on 
until it quits working.

Happy motoring,
--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
From: cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Night vision
Date: 16 Nov 92 18:58:11 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <BxsrII.K6G@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> stresres@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mark Vanetten) writes:

>>The old and unknowing are incorrigable, but the young and unknowing
>>will learn, the only way we have of learning nowadays-- by experience.
>>Keeping them off the road just delays the problem.

>You have a good point there, too bad we don't have a good way to give that
>experience other than to keep sweeping up the glass and try again.  I guess
>Darwin's stuff still holds true.

Extraordinary that two people can use language to argue a point of
view which the existence of language contradicts! Ever heard of
education? Training? Advice? Discussion? Books? Videos? Or are you
trying to say that in the good old USA you have _decided_ that
Darwinian selection via a high road death rate is actually the best
way of improving traffic safety, no doubt because training sounds like
communist government interference with the God-given and
constitutionally-protected RDLA (Right to Drive Like an Asshole)?
-- 
Chris Malcolm    cam@uk.ac.ed.aifh          +44 (0)31 650 3085
Department of Artificial Intelligence,    Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK                DoD #205
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: fengxi@prancer.eche.ualberta.ca (Fengxi Zhou)
Subject: driving tips
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:48:10 GMT

    Once I was driving on a hiway.  For some reason, the car started drifting
sideways and I corrected a little too abruptly.  Then the weight started to 
shift from side to side as the car snaked forward wider and wider.  At the time,
I was driving at about 100kph.  I first tried "opposite lock".  No good.  THen I
braked, lifted off the throttle, while struggling to bring the car back.  Of
course, these were the wrong moves since the car ended up in the ditch.  What
should I have done to address such situation?
    Any tips you can share with me are greatly appreciated.
From: vat10@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Victor A Tirva)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Paying a Reasonable Price for Gas
Date: 17 Nov 92 17:23:34 GMT
Reply-To: vat10@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Victor A Tirva)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Nov15.063644.5518@r-node.gts.org> tex@r-node.gts.org (Terence Dulay) writes:
>In article <1992Nov11.211812.16727@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> tex@r-node.ts.org writes:
>>No..the Japeneese guy wasn't right about the USA...he is a damn 
>>LOOSER. If you do some research into that asshole who said Americans
>>are lazy...you'll see he had his job handed down to him becuase he did
>>favors for the government...why not have a damn monarch? That is about what
>>japan is. The people of japan do work hard, and so do the americans, but
>>the damn government in japan is flat out self centered. 
  ...
>
>Maybe not lazy, but illiterate.  Might I suggest that you do some research on

>the Japanese education system, which I think is vastly superior to what we have
>in North America.  Also, may I also
                     ^           ^
                     |___________|

>suggest that you go home, look through all your grade school notes, and 
>teach yourself some basic grammar and spelling.  
>How ANY university could accept someone who writes as bad as you do is beyond
                                                        ^
                                                        |
                                                        badly

>me.  Probably because American standards are set to satisfy American people
>(i.e. very low).



Please use complete sentences when complaining about basic grammar and spelling.



>-- 
>Terence M. "Tex" Dulay                  Scarborough, Ontario, CANADA
>tex@r-node.gts.org                      ...uunet.ca!r-node!tex
>tex@r-node.pci.on.ca
>Toronto Blue Jays - 1992 WORLD SERIES CHAMPS!! *We Stopped The Chop, Eh?*


People in glass houses shouldn't ...   live in Canada.  It's too cold       :-) 
                                             and gas is too expensive.     
 
Vic Tirva
                  
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser)
Subject: Re: Driving and old age (was Re: Night vision)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:39:35 GMT

tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan) writes:

>lowry@watson.ibm.com (Andy Lowry) writes:

>>So here's a question: Have people found good ways to deal with this
>>problem?  My parents' solution of driving to my office to avoid
>>driving in the city is an example, but I expect that more extensive
>>solutions might be needed for my parents before long.  If you some
>>good ideas related to this problem, please share them.  Thanks.

>My grandfather gave up driving a couple of years ago after some eye
>surgery (makes sense, huh? ;-) He now takes a cross between a cab and a
>bus which shuttles him just about anyplace he needs to go. He just calls
>'em up, pays a few bucks, and voila! Grocery store, barber shop, or
>doctor's office, almost as convenient as having his own personal car and
>driver. Of course, he lives in St. Paul, MN, and not all areas have such
>services, but it makes sense when one is planning one's retirement to
>take such considerations into account.

I forgot to mention that my grandmother has never had a driver's license.
She relies on my grandfather, of course, to get around.  They recently
sold their home (in which they lived for 30-some years) and bought a
smaller home in a retirement community.  This community has, among other
things, a shuttle service to the major shopping centers, hospitals, parks,
airports, etc.  This shuttle service is included in the flat monthly fee
that my grandparents pay to the community.  I think this is the best
situation for them because after my grandfather can no longer drive, or
if he dies, transportation will still be provided.  I realize that not
all elderly people can afford to live in these types of places, but if
they can, it's a good deal.

BTW, my grandfather was a mechanic for nearly 50 years, and has put a lot
of mileage on his beloved Buicks.  The last time I rode with him, it
never occured to me that his driving skills had waned; he may be the
exception, but who knows for how long?  I think he'll stop driving on his
own when he thinks it's time.

Regards,

Brian

bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am the engineer, I can choose K.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Department of Engineering Mechanics
Ohio State University
Columbus, OH
Xref: sparky rec.autos.driving:6688 rec.autos:27015 rec.autos.tech:15528
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Tuesday, 17 Nov 1992 11:54:50 CST
From: <U59985@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
Subject: Re: ++WHISTLER 680/780/880++Which???!!!
 <1992Nov12.181438@usho21.hou281.chevron.com>

I would say get a Valentine too. If you can stand the wait and the $300 price t
ag. I have a Valentine and I love it. I trust it completely. I used to have an
Escort and what happened was that I couldn't trust it all the time because I co
uldn't tell if it was picking up real radar or fake radar (e.g. automatic door
openers). It became too much of a nuisance to use. Not so with the Valentine. S
ure it still picks up fake radar, but in such a way that after a while you can
tell which radar is real and which isn't. It's hard to explain but you get a gu
t feeling for it. I ordered mine back in April and I got it in August. I guess
the waiting period is getting longer.

I don't think that review in C&D helped any.

Thomas
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto)
Subject: Re: New gas sucks (flame)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 00:30:40 GMT
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Nov21.052956.4276@netcom.com> linley@netcom.com (Bruce James Robrert Linley) writes:
>Am I alone in hating the new politically correct, oxygenated gasoline? It
>costs more. It lowers your MPG. And what does is do? Reduce emissions by 20%?
>What good does this do if you have to burn an additional 20% worth of gas to
>get the same number of miles out a tank? Somewhere I can see monkey suited
><insert oil company name here> executives laughing all the way to the bank.

I'm seeing a drop from 36.1 to around 34 MPG.  If the reduction in
emissions is 20%, it overwhelms the drop in mileage.  

I sure HOPE there is a big improvement in air quality this winter.
Because even if there ain't, they'll never stop the oxygenated
gasoline.

-- 
Matthew T. Russotto	russotto@eng.umd.edu	russotto@wam.umd.edu
Some news readers expect "Disclaimer:" here.
Just say NO to police searches and seizures.  Make them use force.
(not responsible for bodily harm resulting from following above advice)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: mf@dancer.cc.bellcore.com (fusco,marc)
Subject: Re: Driving with parking lights only
Organization: The House of Klatu
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 13:57:08 GMT

In article <24042@galaxy.ucr.edu> judson@watserv.ucr.edu writes:
>Why do people insist on driving only with parking lights on when it is dusk?
>Why don't they just turn on their headlights?  Beside the fact that it is
>illegal in many states, it doesn't make it that much easier to see the car.

	Because these people are idiots and probably the same folks who
rubberneck and drive 55 in the passing lane!
From: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com (Bob Haar)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Night vision
Date: 16 Nov 92 13:32:13 GMT
Reply-To: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com
Organization: G.M. Research and Environmental Staff

In article 28180@castle.ed.ac.uk, cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) writes:
|>In article <1992Nov12.192332.4553@udel.edu> dan@seismo.pnl.gov writes:
|>
|>>While we're at it, how about requiring an
|>>annual driving certification for those over 65?  I have too many
|>>close calls caused by elderly drivers who either are not paying
|>>attention to their driving, are incapable of reacting within a
|>
|>As accident statistics show, the most accident-prone group on the road
|>is young men, not because they have slow reactions or bad sight, but
|>because they take too many risks. Research in the UK has shown that
|>the high accident rate in this group is caused by a particular subset
|>of habitually aggressive and dangerous drivers. So the most
|>cost-effective way of making the roads safer would be to take these
|>dangerous young men off the road (all of whom think they are
|>absolutely first class drivers). The UK government has decided to try
|>to do this by removing the licence of anyone guilty of dangerous
|>driving, and requiring them to pass both a specially stiff driving
|>test, _and_ a psychological test, before they get their licence back.
|>-- 

Here in the U.S., young drivers are also the highest rsik group (and
young women are catching up on young men), but the over 65 group
comes in second. Interestingly, the types of accidents are quite
different. Young drivers are most often in accidents with other
vehicles, while older drivers are more often in single car accidents
- running off the road, etc.

In Michigan, yound drivers are put on notice that the drivers license
they can get at age 16 is probationary, and can be lost much more
easily than for older drivers.

---
	Robert Haar               InterNet : rhaar@gmr.com 
	Computer Science Dept., G.M. Research and Environmental Staff
DISCLAIMER: Unless indicated otherwise, everything in this note is
personal opinion, not an official statement of General Motors Corp.


Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser)
Subject: Re: Night vision
Keywords: Where is that lane??
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:45:08 GMT

ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org(Peter Trei) writes:

>     I've seen reflectors on highways in California, and a few other
>places.  One of the engineering problems is making them compatible
>with snowplows - it has to be cut into the road instead of just glued
>on, as in CA. This is expensive and timeconsuming, and is one of the
>reasons they aren't used in northern states.
>
>     The British ones consist of (a) a metal frame, (b) a rubber boot,
>and (c) two marbles (which do the actual reflecting). I suspect they
>cost a couple pounds a pop, at minimum, and they *are* cut into the
>road. The CA ones are just plastic reflectors similar to the ones on
>the back of a bicycle, but this allows a variety of colors.
>
>     I totally agree that they help a LOT.

These types of reflectors are very common here in Ohio, at least in
the Cleveland, Columbus, and Toledo areas (and the highways between)
which I am the most familiar with.  They are usually set into the
asphalt in the center of two-lane roads (yellow) and between lanes (white)
and on the edqe of lanes (yellow on the left, white on the right) on
roads of 3 or more lanes.  The reflector is the standard type we're
all familiar with.  They are protected by a metal frame that allows them
to be run over and presumably plowed over.

I'll add that they are not on *every* road, but they seem to be on
every highway; dangerous, unlit, winding roads; and on every _new_ road.
Oh, another cool thing is that on roads that are one way, like divided
highways and on/off-ramps, etc., the backing is a red reflector to let you
know that something is wrong with the direction you're travelling on this
road.  Don't ask how I know this.  :^)

Regards,

Brian

bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am the engineer, I can choose K.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Department of Engineering Mechanics
Ohio State University
Columbus, OH
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: Night vision
Keywords: Where is that lane??
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 09:28:55 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.184508.18497@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes:
>Oh, another cool thing is that on roads that are one way, like divided
>highways and on/off-ramps, etc., the backing is a red reflector to let you
>know that something is wrong with the direction you're travelling on this
>road.  Don't ask how I know this.  :^)

let me guess.  it was late at night and the road was deserted.
just for fun, you decided to make the car skid with the handbrake.
you pulled it up, modulating the skid by adjusting the pressure
on the brake (the harder you pulled, the more sideways the car got).
suddenly, the button jammed, you couldn't release the handbrake,
and the rear end came around completely.  feeling rather concerned,
you managed to get the @&*#%! thing unstuck, which immediately
stopped the spinning and caused the car to straighten out.  but
the car was now travelling backwards.  looking out the front, you
could see that the reflectors were red.  hmm, interesting.

am i right?

-teddy
p.s. the car was a rental geo metro.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto)
Subject: Re: Night vision
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 01:34:02 GMT
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <28228@castle.ed.ac.uk> cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) writes:
>In article <BxsrII.K6G@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> stresres@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mark Vanetten) writes:
>
>>>The old and unknowing are incorrigable, but the young and unknowing
>>>will learn, the only way we have of learning nowadays-- by experience.
>>>Keeping them off the road just delays the problem.
>
>>You have a good point there, too bad we don't have a good way to give that
>>experience other than to keep sweeping up the glass and try again.  I guess
>>Darwin's stuff still holds true.
>
>Extraordinary that two people can use language to argue a point of
>view which the existence of language contradicts! Ever heard of
>education? Training? Advice? Discussion? Books? Videos?

None are any substitute for experience.  Especially experience with
OTHER CARS around.  Possibly a training program could be designed that
would do a good job of it, but I suspect it would be hideously
expensive.  (imagine having to pay a lot of people to drive in a
typical erratic manner just to simulate real-life driving for the
benefit of training a 16-year-old-- of course, that's nothing compared
to what you'd have to pay the people simulating pedestrians leaping
into the roadway without looking.  And the ASPCA wouldn't like what
you'd need to do with animals)
-- 
Matthew T. Russotto	russotto@eng.umd.edu	russotto@wam.umd.edu
Some news readers expect "Disclaimer:" here.
Just say NO to police searches and seizures.  Make them use force.
(not responsible for bodily harm resulting from following above advice)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: mpalmer@encore.com (Mike Palmer)
Subject: Re: LIDAR demo on Discovery Channel
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:56:28 GMT

jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:

>whs70@dancer.uucp (22501-sohl) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov11.184554.5971@news.columbia.edu> scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears) writes:

>>>	[stuff cut]
>>>>Another thought crossed my mind as I was watching this.   brakingsi
>>>>at the instant of alarm would cause the car to brake OUT of the field
>>>>of view of the LIDAR, particularly if the cop is panning smoothly.  
>>>>Hard braking should be an even better defence than with conventional radar.
>>>
>>>	Although this may work, it has to be smooth. You have to train yourself
>>>	to brake hard without stomping on the brakes in reflex. I know from
>>>	experience that, without any other data, a cop can pull you over for
>>>	braking hard when hit with a radar gun. They *can* and *will* dredge
>>>	up some bullshit law you broke, because they (in all their infinite
>>>	pig wisdom) *know* you were being naughty. :-(

>>Please elaborate on your "experience."  Being pulled over is one thing,
>>being given a ticket AND making it stick is yet another.

>>Question:  Under what motor vehicle were you (or someone you
>>know of) charged for braking hard?

>Depending on conditions and what you did they could get you for
>driving to endanger.  On the highway in the fast lane with *any* other
>cars around slamming on your brakes is *dangerous*, particularly if
>you start to skid.  It'd be up to the judge to decide your guilt, but
>to be quite honest if I were the judge and the cop said "I hit him
>with my laser and he locked up his brakes, which was really dangerous
>even if he wasn't speeding" then you'd get both tickets for being
>stupid unless you could come up with something better than "I saw a
>squirrel in the road."

How can he ticket you for speeding if he doesn't get a reading?  Eyeballing
does not count.  If you hide your detector before the cop gets to you he'd
have a tough job proving you slowed because he hit you with radar or lidar.

>I know a NH state cop who tickets you if you lock up your brakes when
>hit with radar, and I was in a car in VT where we were going about 63
>in a 65, the driver hit the brakes when he saw the cop, and the cop
>ticketed him for 70-something.  The legality of the latter is
>certainly questionable, but the driver really did deserve to get
>stopped.

As long as you check the mirror before slamming the brakes on I don't see
any problems here - just keep it straight!

>jim frost
>jimf@centerline.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org (Peter Trei)
Subject: Re: Night vision
Keywords: Where is that lane??
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:03:24 GMT

In article <62022@mimsy.umd.edu> hagger@cs.umd.edu (Paul Hagger) writes:
>I was wondering why the US has not imposed equivalent road marking
>requirements as I have experienced in Europe.  I know that England has
>"cat's eyes" between the dashed lines in the center of the road.  These
>small reflectors are placed in holes cut in the road, and when a car
>drives over them, it pushes them down and washes them (the casing they
>sit in works kind of like the human eyelid, only the eye moves and not
>the covering).
>Does anybody know if the US ever attempted to improve the visibilty of
>road markings in any way?  And if not, why not?
>-hagger

     I've seen reflectors on highways in California, and a few other
places.  One of the engineering problems is making them compatible
with snowplows - it has to be cut into the road instead of just glued
on, as in CA. This is expensive and timeconsuming, and is one of the
reasons they aren't used in northern states.

     The British ones consist of (a) a metal frame, (b) a rubber boot,
and (c) two marbles (which do the actual reflecting). I suspect they
cost a couple pounds a pop, at minimum, and they *are* cut into the
road. The CA ones are just plastic reflectors similar to the ones on
the back of a bicycle, but this allows a variety of colors.

     I totally agree that they help a LOT. 
							Peter 
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving