From: liza@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Liza Miller)
Subject: Re: Genetics & Birdyness in Labs
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 17:10:53 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.184351.11926@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> willett@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (david.c.willett) writes:
>Some of the traffic on the net lately has dealt with whether Labradors as a
>breed are being "ruined" if breeders do not consider hunting ability important
>when selecting breeding stock.  Specifically, several have stated that Labs
>being bred should be "birdy".
	I can't argue with that, Labs should be birdy, among other things.

>I'm not a Lab breeder, I don't even play one on TV, so I don't have a precise
>definition of "birdyness", but I inferred from the discussion that it was a
>desire or aptitude for hunting or chasing fowl.  If my inference is correct,
>we are talking about a behavior.
	Well, it is a behavior, but it is also more than that.  I don't
understand the mechanism, but you can take an eight week old puppy to the
field and they will look up when they hear the guns, they get excited about
birds when they are introduced to it.  Labs naturally retrieve, this is NOT
something you have to teach them.  They just do it.  And if you don't throw
stuff for them, they'll bring you things they find on the ground.  They are
also natural water dogs.  I remember the first time I took my dog to the 
water, he wasn't yet sure about this swimming thing, but he thought the
wading was really keen and then he discovered that there could be stuff
in the water -- stuff that he could bring to Mom.  He dragged a lawn chair
out of the water to me.  That was very important to him -- stuff in the
water must come out and go to Mom.  Great instincts!  Labs also have an
absolute compulsion to have something in their mouths.  When I get home and
let the dogs out, they run past me at blinding speed, frantically search
for something to put in their mouths and then come back for loves.  These
are NOT things I have taught them, I do encourage these behaviors, but the
impetus for them was instinctive.

>The recent postings suggest that such behavior or "behavioral tendency" is
>inherited.  I think this notion is dangerous and damaging to the breed.
>Dogs do different things for different reasons and a particular pattern of
>behavior can arise from any number of environmental, genetic, or social 
>factors.  Breeding is important, and temprement types are probably inherited,
>but I don't think you can say much more than that.  I'm not sure that 
>it is possible to "breed for birdyness" or any other type of behavior.
	Well, I think I've shown above that the "behavior" is based on
instinct and therefore it can be bred for.  

	A further example of the instinct side of it is that I have a dog
living with me right now that is NOT birdy.  He has been taught to
retrieve, but he's not interested in birds, he's not interested in
retrieving, he doesn't care much about swimming, he's just not interested.
His litter-sister on the other hand is VERY birdy.  Niner, the dog, is
going to a pet home where he will be loved and appreciated, but NOT bred!

>Would any of you Lab breeders out there care to comment?
	Well, there is one thing you can be pretty sure of, Lab breeders
*always* have a comment!


>-- 
>Dave Willett          AT&T Federal Systems Advanced Technologies
>attmail!dwillett      (AT&T FSAT)
>
>A dog is a dog until he is facing you.  Then he is *MISTER* dog!


--
Liza Lee Miller         My dogs are labradorable!     liza@pangea.stanford.edu
Cibola Labradors            Field * Show * Fun                    415/326-5309
Cibola's Misty Mountain Hop--Hopper                   Mistypoint Kashmir--Kash
Talimar All-Pro At Delby--Niner          Campbellcroft Cibola Rosette -- Rosie