From: sdoe@nmsu.edu (Stephen Doe)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Heaven/Hell (was: Re: Perfect Love)
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:43:31 GMT
Distribution: world,public
Organization: New Mexico State University

In article <1992Dec10.142437.29928@engage.pko.dec.com> pub@riscee.pko.dec.com (Publius) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.021022.3866@nmsu.edu> sdoe@nmsu.edu (Stephen Doe) writes:
>>
>>My impression is that hell is a place of eternal torment, not just
>>"separation from God."  The Bible is quite specific in describing the
>>place as essentially God's "torture chamber."
>
>Bible is quite specific???   Where?  Which book in the Bible?  Chaper
>and verse?

Um, I answered you the first time you asked this:

Article: 56825 of talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Heaven/Hell (was: Re: Perfect Love)
Distribution: world,public
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 21:54:20 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.171541.7798@engage.pko.dec.com> pub@riscee.pko.dec.com (Publius) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.021022.3866@nmsu.edu> sdoe@nmsu.edu (Stephen Doe) writes:
>>
>>Jesus' teachings of hell prominently feature pain and suffering, not
>>just separation from God.
>
>Where?  Where in the Bible did Jesus teach in the manner you described?
>If you can not find any Bible verse to support the above claim, as
>I don't believe you can, please refrain from making that irresponsible
>statement.

Gee whiz, are we reading the same book?

Matt. 5:22  . . . whoever says, "You fool!" shall be liable to the
hell of fire.

Matt. 8:11-12  I tell you, many will come and. . .sit at the table. .
. in the kingdom of heaven, while the sons of the kingdom will be
thrown into the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their
teeth.

Matt. 10:14-15  And if any one will not receive you or listen to your
words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or
town.  Truly I say to you, it shall be more tolerable on the day of
judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.

Matt. 10:28  And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill
the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 

Matt. 12:36  I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render
account for every careless word they utter.

Matt 13:41-42 The Son of man will send his angels, and they will
gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and evildoers, and throw
them into the furnace of fire; there they will weep and gnash their
teeth. 

Matt 23:33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape
being sentenced to hell?

Matt 25:41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, "Depart from
me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his
angels.              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
That's just Matthew.  Shall I go on, or is it blindingly obvious by
now?  Oh, I see what you're saying.  I'm not "interpreting" these
verses correctly.  Please be patient with me, I haven't learned to
love Big Brother yet!

Take the beam out of your own eye, and maybe you'll see these verses a
bit more clearly.

SD

Also, in another post I wrote:

Article: 56826 of talk.religion.misc
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
From: sdoe@nmsu.edu (Stephen Doe)
Subject: Re: Heaven/Hell (was: Re: Perfect Love)
Distribution: world,public
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 22:27:13 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.183956.11791@engage.pko.dec.com> pub@riscee.pko.dec.com (Publius) writes:
>In article <Bz1xKs.DKF@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> ivaliote@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Lotus ) writes:
>>sdoe@nmsu.edu (Stephen Doe) writes:
>>>My impression is that hell is a place of eternal torment, not just
>>>"separation from God."  The Bible is quite specific in describing the
>>>place as essentially God's "torture chamber."
>>
>>That was my impression as well.
>
>But the 'impression' doesn't count.  Bible does.  The fact of the matter
>is that there is NOT one single Bible verse that can support that
>'impression'.

Then I guess you have never read Revelations, among other things.

	. . . ; and he [ie, an unbeliever] shall be tormented with
fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the
presence of the Lamb:  And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for
ever and ever:  and they have no rest day nor night. . .[Rev. 14:9-11]

Also
	And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was
cast into the lake of fire. [Rev 20:15]

Also check out references to bodily burns being inflicted eternally
(Matt. 25:41,46; Luke 3:9, 17; 16:24; John 15:6; Heb. 10:27; Jude 7),
being whipped and deprived of rest (Luke 12:47-48) and references that
indicate that whatever is going to happen, it will cause weeping and
gnashing of teeth (Matt. 8:12).  It will be worse than what happened
to Sodom and Gomorrah (Matt. 11:24, Jude 7).  If your offense includes
preaching a false gospel, it will be worse than being drowned with a
millstone around your neck (Matt. 18:6, Mark 9:42 and Luke 17:2).  
  
Note that the Gospel references pertain to statements supposedly made
by Christ Himself.  In a previous post, you indicated that I'd have a
hard time finding such references.  The truth of the matter is, I
didn't have to look farther than Matthew, the first book of the NT, to
find abundant references to the nature of hell.

I have to wonder if you actually read your own Bible.  What good is it
if you're only going to twist it around to say something you're
comfortable with anyway?

SD

--------

In case you miss this post too, I'll be sure to e-mail you the
response this time.

SD
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc