HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: moore@cs.utah.edu (Tim Moore)
Subject: Re: Cat 4/5 mix is bullshit!!
In-reply-to: sl3vx@cc.usu.edu's message of 6 Apr 92 11:04:15 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Date: 6 Apr 92 11:52:57

In article <1992Apr6.110415.54224@cc.usu.edu> sl3vx@cc.usu.edu writes:

	   I have a complaint of sorts to be aired to the news net.

   I'm a cat. 4 and love to go racing on the weekends at the local races here in 
   Utah.  Under the new rule that Cat. 5 can ride with Cat. 4 a lot of problems 
   have come up.

	   First, that more people have gone down and been taken to the hospital.
   The bike handling  
   skills of most 5s are limited and this has made for some very scary times.  I'm
   not saying that 5s are the total cause of loss of blood and skin but that cat
   4s mixed with 5s is like, drinking and driving, the problems are enlarged. 
   This move by the USCF needs to be changed to reduce accidents.  I know that
   cat 4s before were not "seasoned" but the new Cat invites anyone to race and
   this does not scare them into learning to race.

I'm a Utah cat 5. My races so far have been limited to the weekly
International Center criteriums. The course is fairly mellow, and 4s
and 5s race together. I don't notice any difference between the two
categories. 4s and 5s both do bonehead things. Last week I avoided a
spectacular crash that was caused by a 4 going down. Someone bounced
off my leg, but I managed to stay upright.

I don't think my handling skills are inferior to the other riders in
this race series. Local riders may have different opinions about the
Cat 5 Mi Duole guy with the tail; feel free to share.

At least the 4s yell at you if you screw up. Would that happen in a
Cat 5 race? It's hard to believe that things were much different here
last year.

How does the new category invite anyone to race? Maybe there should be
a rule that you can't get a Cat 5 license while unattached.

--
Tim Moore                    moore@cs.utah.edu {bellcore,hplabs}!utah-cs!moore
"Wind in my hair - Shifting and drifting - Mechanical music - Adrenaline surge"
	- Rush
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam)
Subject: Re: BICYCLE CRASH
Reply-To: Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 18:39:44 GMT

In <1992Apr3.173830.16921@minnow.sp.unisys.com> ralph@minnow.sp.unisys.com (Ralph Smith) writes:

>I've been following this thread and am wondering: Have any cyclists been
>run off the road by other cyclists?

I've chosen to go off the road a few times when confronted by 
obviously panicking wrong-way cyclists who, because they have no business
riding against traffic, can't decide whether to move left or right and
instead try to hit me head-on.  If there is no car traffic I usually
pass such idiots on the left of the lane, riding out by the center line if
possible, since their behavior is often unpredictable.  If there is
car traffic I ride on the shoulder if one exists, since if either of
us is going to get creamed I don't see why it should be me.

>Have you ever been out there in a foul mood and forced a runner to change
>his/her pace or direction.

Never.  But then runners are rarely out in traffic lanes around here
-- they use the road shoulders, which are intended for pedestrians,
while I use the lanes, which are for vehicles.  Sometimes runners see
me coming and move to the side out of courtesy, but no "force" is ever
involved.

>Have you ever been PO'd and moved left to hog your lane just to 'let those
>drivers know you're right'?

No, but that doesn't mean I don't sometimes hog the lane for safety,
not only my own safety, but sometimes the motorists' as well, such as
when I can see an obstruction while going around a blind corner.  If I
ride out as far as the obstruction, not only can I get through, but
the drivers have to either slow down to my speed or pass around me,
and therefore miss the obstruction.  Sometimes these "obstructions"
are children whose parents forgot to tell them about playing ball in
the street; sometimes they are stalled trucks.

I will also block a lane if there is not room to pass safely, and I'm
sure some drivers think I'm doing it just to slow them down.  But then
some drivers think the same thing about speed limits, stop signs, and
traffic lights.

-- 
 Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@happy-man.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: b645zjo@utarlg.uta.edu (Rick Homard)
Subject: Advice about mtb
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 00:15:00 GMT

I recently came across a bike that a neighbor wants to sell.  It is
a Yokota, hardly ridden (under 50 miles).  The bike is a '90 model.
Does anybody have advice, gripes, kudos, et al  regarding the Yokota?

The deraileur set is Shimano Exage (18 speed with indexed lever shifters).
The asking price is $200.  Is this a good price?

One thing I did notice about the bike which was unusual....
the rear brake caliper was *not* mounted in the "usual" location 
behind the seat.  Instead it was located underneath the bike 
just behind the crank.  Are there advantages/disadvantages to this
setup?

I would appreciate email but posting fine also.

Thank you,

Rick Homard

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: weird@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (john.t.erhardt)
Subject: Re: Thule or Yakima Rack (the real question)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 14:46:02 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.121513.10368@sjuphil.uucp> iyermish@sjuphil.uucp (I. Yermish) writes:
>In article <1992Apr7.165342.25275@cbfsb.cb.att.com> weird@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (john.t.erhardt) writes:
>>In article <4992@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> jmyers@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM (Jonathan Myers) writes:
>>

Well I did it.  I picked up my roof rack yesterday.  The owner of the bike
shop said that both Thule and Yakima are very fine racks.  However he
said he's experienced problems betting spare parts for Thule racks.
So I opted for the Yakima.  Even though it's supposed to rain today
I jsut had to try it out.  After all, what are toys for? :-)

BTW, those things have make some nasty wind noise.  I'm considering getting
the wind fairing now.  

I guess I should go check if it's raining on my bike.

John Erhardt
From: v561whw2@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Kevin P O'Neill)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Do clipless pedals hold tenaciously in an accident?
Date: 14 Apr 92 03:53:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr7.191842.25127@ee.ubc.ca>, ileung@ee.ubc.ca (LEUNG ISAAC JING H) writes...
>Well, I'm fortunate enough to have suffered only 1 'big' crash.
>Went around a wet corner waaay to fast and wiped out...(bystanders were OOHing and AAhing)
>Somehow, my clipless' released in the crash, so I don't worry about getting stuck anymore.
>I think that if you have time to think and consciously try to release the pedals, it won't work
>cause you're in semi-panic and you try to pull straight out. Normally, the chances of your foot going just straight out are probably pretty low....
> 
>I dunno, any body got any other crash stories with clipless'?
> 
>or maybe that's just me...(ever keeled over at a stop?)
> 
>Isaac Leung

	Well..., this evening, about seven PM, I was flying downtown when I 
crossed the street to cut through a gas station parking lot.  Since I was 
moving quickly, I bunny-hopped the 3 inch lip of the drive way, and when I 
landed I heard a snap sound, and I went flying off of the bike.  My pedals 
released me, I know this because I was lying about ten feet from my bike.
What had happened was the steering tube of the fork sheered when my wheels
hit the ground at the end of the bunny-hop.				


						Cars generally suck,
								  Kevin


P.S., thank God for helmets and cold weather clothing.  Although my clothing was
worse for the wear, I suffered no more than a little bruise on my upper arm.
From: Tim.Cahill@f99.n121.z1.FidoNet.Org (Tim Cahill)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Off road trails near Philadelphia
Date: 7 Apr 92 05:00:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: selene.702753328.2

Isn't there some good riding around Perkasie, and up near Schwenksville? Try 
around Montgomery County Park too. I'm originally from Willow Grove (moved to 
Wisc. about 15 years ago) If you call the Willow Grove Bike shop they might be 
able to direct
you.

 * Origin: NineJackNine (1:121/99)
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles:8770 rec.autos.driving:2200 ca.driving:794 rec.motorcycles:12365
From: ampe@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.e.ampe)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,rec.autos.driving,ca.driving,rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Car vs Cycle vs Bike vs Ped--The Main Point
Date: 7 Apr 92 15:38:51 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <180917@pyramid.pyramid.com> lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
>>Richard Ottolini writes:
>>>Being both an avid driver and bicyclist I would say driver compliance with
>>>laws is much higher than bicyclists, I'd say 90% to 25%, especially for basic
>>>things like observing stop signs, staying on the correct side of the road,
>>>having night lights on the vehicle.  [.  .  .]
>>
>In article <1992Apr6.230032.27377@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> les@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Les Earnest) writes:
>>Really?  For example, 90% of all motorists obey the speed laws on
>>freeways?  I wonder where Mr. Ottolini gathers these amazing statistics.
>>
>     No Les, he said BASIC stuff....disobedience of asinine speed
>     laws is a civic DUTY, not a violation of law.

Oh, I see, the question is not whether you violate the law, but which
laws you violate.  Uh huh....

>      Going from the ability and willingness to stay on the correct
>      side of the road, stopping at stop signs, etc. to speed laws
>      is a pretty big stretch.

Not that big at all.  However, let's consider what you call "basic
stuff," namely stoping at stop signs.  I think that if you observe a
stop sign carefully, you will find that 90% of drivers do not come to
a complete stop when there is no opossing traffic.  Consider another
"basic stuff:" signalling turns and yielding the right of way when
making a left hand turn.  The compliance here is a little better,
maybe about 50%.  On the other hand, these are much more serious
violations, which can easily cause "accidents."  Moreover, the police
only encourage this behaviour in motorists by ignoring it.

>      Besides, one would bet that the obedience is more due to
>      visibility.  Biker's CAN'T speed...and cars are a bit more
>      conspicuous cruising down the wrong side of the road.

In other words, drivers obey laws only when it is convienient to do
so, a point which has been made here already.  I'm not saying
bicyclists are any better in this regard; but to suggest that 90%
motorists both know and obey common traffic laws is absurd.

John_Ampe@att.com
From: zemaitis@mbcl.rutgers.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: ***BIKE WANTED***
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:13:57 GMT

Bike Wanted:

Due to theft I'm looking for a solid, kindly-used road bike.  I'll keep
my needs general so as not to limit the possible flavors of the bikes you
may have to offer.

What I need is a good road/touring bike.  I don't need, nor can I afford (read
grad student), a frame/component combo that'll take me to then Olympic time
trials (though if you want to part with one in my price range...).  I'm
a big guy (6' & 200lbs) and I generate alot of torque when I kick it, but
for the most part I'm a smooth/80-100 cadance recreational rider.  I'm looking
for something in the $150 to $250 (as  a *real* upper price) range.

Thanks
	-Jerry

PS.  If you try to sell me back my bike I hope you've saved enough from
you thevery to pay for some medical bills.
-- 
*******************************************************************************
*				      *				     	      *
*	Jerry Zemaitis		      *  University of Medicine and Dentistry *
*         aka: JerZe		      *  Robert-Wood Johnson Medicial School  *
*     Predoctoral Fellow              *  Graduate school of biomedical Sci.   *
*                                     *  Center for Advanced Biotechnology    *
*                                     *    and Medicine                       *
*******************************************************************************
*
*	"This morning I shot 6 holes in my freezer/                           *
*	 I think I have cabin fever/ I have to go somewhere its warm"         *
*							J. Buffet	      *
*******************************************************************************
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles:8688 rec.autos.driving:2181 ca.driving:776 rec.motorcycles:12292
From: kemasa@ipld01.hac.com (Kemasa)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,rec.autos.driving,ca.driving,rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Kill a Biker, Go to Jail. NOT!!!
Date: 7 Apr 92 01:17:04 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Natural Order Nature Experiments (N.O.N.E.)

In article <1992Apr4.220820.19084@cbfsb.cb.att.com> ashaw@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (andrew.shaw) writes:
>...
>To me it implies one or more mistakes.  The driver made a mistake in
>pulling out.  The motorcyclist made a mistake in operating a vehicle
>with inadequate protection.

Remember that when someone shoots at you for you could have put
bullet proof glass in and steel panels.

>...
>16-wheelers don't run me off the road.  I can accelerate, deccellerate,
>and swerve faster than any 18-wheeler on the road.  I have also been
>hit many times by jackasses, but since I am protected in a nice steel
>cage, I have never even been injured.

Yeah, right. Just wait until the day that you can't move out of the way
because you don't see them coming for whatever reason.

>I agree with collision avoidance; I agree that the driver should not have
>pulled out; however I do not agree that "I didn't see her" is a "lame
>excuse": it sounds to me like an unfortunate statement of the fact in
>a regrettable situation.

It is a lame excuse since I would guess that the person really did not
look. I have seen far too many people pull out without stopping.

>...
>If you are operating a vehicle that you *know* offers you *no* protection
>in the event of a collision, and a collision happens (despite your own
>perfect operating skills and the mandatory imprisonment of every non-perfect 
>driver), don't you think you may have been negligent in your choice of
>vehicle?  BTW, having just been in a side collision, I can tell you that
>door beams are great.
>...

Remember that. Consider how weak you car is compared to trucks and take the
blame when a truck runs over you. Blame the victim.

Reality check please!!!
-- 



						 Kemasa.

The best defense is insanity.

Sierra Club Leader	NRA Life Member		Pro-freedom

e-mail address: kemasa@ipld01.hac.com
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles:8750 rec.autos.driving:2193 ca.driving:792
From: ampe@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.e.ampe)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,rec.autos.driving,ca.driving
Subject: Re: Car vs Cycle vs Bike vs Ped--The Main Point
Date: 7 Apr 92 14:14:09 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Apr6.211608.7213@cirrus.com> grenley@cirrus.com (George Grenley) writes:
>As this thread has become virtually all bicycle vs car, can we not post it
>to rec.motorcycles?  We have _lots_ of articles already, thank you.
>
>George Grenley

Let's see... first we get statements out of rec.motorcycles that
bicycles should GET OFF THE DAMN ROAD, and now they're telling us to
go away and stop bothering them.  Sorry guys, but you started this,
and we're going to finish it, whether you like it or not.

John_Ampe@att.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: N.W. Choe <nwc1@midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: Thule vs. Yak Rack
Organization: Beaver Consulting Co.
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.0
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 06:01:06 GMT

	Well, now that we're on the subject of which rack, as opposed to
where the bloody racks COME from, I think that I can jump in. I own two
Thule racks, for both the gutterless (my last car, a Honda CRX) and a
gutter mount (for my present car, a Volvo wagon). I also have extensive
experience with Yakima racks, which the UC Velo Club uses.

	So, here are my observations about the Thules. With the gutterless
design, there are some rubber pads which fit into a little groove in the
roof. When placed properly, the rack-attaching arms come down in such
a way that it is impossible to miss strong attachment. ie it's foolproof.
	On the CRX, the whole thing was so sturdy that I used to regularly
sit up on the roof. Not terribly comfortable without a cushion, but fine.
I felt that I could just about LIFT the car up using the rails alone. One
problem on such a short car was finding proper rail separation. I ended
up using a full-length tray bike mount (Thule 529 in case you care).
	No such problems for the Volvo mounting. Just a little harder in
some ways to mount the rails to the car. The aforementioned one-bolt
tower-rail and rail-car attachment ran into some problems. Nothing that
cooperation couldn't handle, though. (I had a friend help me, standing
on the other side of the car.)
	The attachment of the kits to the rails was simple. Allen wrench
or just the screw-thingys. Because the rails are square, there is no
question of alignment. I didn't get an aero-deflector- about $60!!!

	The Yakima: One guy I talked to in a store which sold BOTH kinds
(important point) was personally dead set against Yakima's. At least for
their gutterless mounts. His friend completely lost a couple of bikes
while going around a corner. Never had had any problems like that with
Thules. Felt that maybe Yakima's bars might have been stronger, though.
But the load limits are placed by the auto manufacturers, not by the
rack makers, making this point moot.
	I found that the attaching of bike mounts on the Yak's to be a pain.
For one thing, due to the round rails, they twist around, making attach-
ment a pain sometimes. And in particular, the front attachment for a full
trough kit is difficult. So I don't like 'em. Also, importantly for me,
I live in Massachusetts, back East, where everywhere has Thule stuff, but
Yakima racks are much rarer. And ski racks, sailboard racks, etc. are
available really freely.

	One last question: talking about Barrecrafters racks- these have a
square/rectangular cross section. Can one fit a B. kit to a Thule rack?
They're much cheaper. Just wondering.

	My final judgement: Thule.


*        	*      	*      	*      	*
N.W. Choe
nwc1@midway.uchicago.edu
Beaver Consulting Co. Chicago
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: mcgredo@bluto.ie.orst.edu (Don McGregor)
Subject: Re: A Nice Word for Huffy
Reply-To: mcgredo@bluto.ie.orst.edu
Organization: Oregon State University - Univ. Computing Services
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 04:29:06 GMT

r hardin writes
>Twice now I've gotten replacement cranksets and parts within a
>couple days by calling the factory, replacing bearings and cones
>that wore out after about 10,000 miles.
>
Let me get this straight:  You rode a Huffy for over 10,000 miles?

Isn't April Fool's day well past?

--
Don McGregor             | "I like maxims that don't encourage behavior
mcgredo@bluto.ie.orst.edu|  modification"   --Calvin
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: bernard@tourng.enet.dec.com (Dave Bernard)
Subject: FOR SALE: CANNONDALE ST600
Reply-To: bernard@tourng.enet.dec.com (Dave Bernard)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 15:56:15 GMT


	I have a '91 Cannondale ST600 touring bike for sale.
	I bet I have less than 25 miles on it, and since it's my
	third bike, and I have two little kids, I never get to
	ride it.

	21" frame.  Metallic blue.  Bar end shifters.  Cannondale
	rear rack.  This thing is extremely responsive for a touring
	bike, when ridden on the street unloaded- no doubt because
	of the stiffness of the aluminum frame.

	Listed new last year for $695.  I'll let it go for $550 or so.
	I'm in Denver, CO.

		Dave Bernard
		bernard@denver.enet.dec.com
		bernard@tourng.enet.dec.com
		(303) 694-1952
Organization: Sophomore, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 01:30:06 -0400 
From: "Christopher L. Morrow" <cm43+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Open Thigh, Insert Handlebar (April 1992 "Discover")

On 14-Apr-92 in Open Thigh, Insert Handleba..
user Chuck Anderson@isis.cs.d writes:
> 
>There is an article in the most recent (April 1992) issue of Discover
>magazine about an injury that a cyclist received in a bicycle-bicycle
>crash that occurred on a bike path.  It's a two page article which I read
>in its entirety while in the grocery store.
> 
>This is not for the squeamish.


I read this article also, sounded really bad at the time, and I stil
think that if I had seen it I would have left my lunch all over the
trail.  The guy in the article was mure than just very lucky, and he can
walk still, better than anything that couuld have happened to him.
--Chris
school: x4545
Home: 703-264-0058
cm43@andrew.cmu.edu


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: pevans@cynic.wimsey.bc.ca (Phillip Evans)
Subject: Campy Athena BB axle for sale
Organization: Mad Artists' Hangout, Vancouver, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 18:43:07 GMT

I have an unused Campy Athena BB axle for sale.  I bought the BB set
and the axle does not fit - too short on the drive side.  It's marked
70-SSg.  The Loose Screws catalog lists this at $48.75.  It's YOURS
for $25 and I'll pay shipping.


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: robishaw@orion.lrmsc.loral.com (Gary Robishaw x5960)
Subject: Re: Commuting on a Bicycle
Organization: Loral Rolm Mil-Spec Computers
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 20:16:07 GMT

In article <rlht0INNn54@agate.berkeley.edu> dchoi@physics.berkeley.edu (David Choi) writes:
>
>                           I don't know about you all, but I sweat like crazy
>when I ride my bike (even a couple of miles).  Do your companies supply
>showering facilities?
>
I too perspire profusly during my commute, irregardless of the weather. My
company has a full excersize facility with weight room, raquetball court,
life-cycle, stair-master, pool and hot-tub. Showers too. Eat your hearts out.
[:)

Gary
-- 
Gary Robishaw                    "The only trouble with instant gratification
robishaw@uranus.lrmsc.loral.com           is that it takes so long!"
408/432-5960                                          Me
Usnail -- 3151 Zanker Rd. San Jose, Ca. 95134-1928
From: phantast@drachen.Eng.Sun.COM (Greg Dykema)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Cannondale, Bridgestone, et al.
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:30:10 GMT
Reply-To: phantast@drachen.Eng.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: drachen


Does anyone have any experience with putting a rear rack and panniers on one
of the Cannondale Rxxx frames? I really like the light weight and stiffness of
the Cannondale, but one of my applications is commuting and I'm worried about
the loaded performance (~10-20 lbs in panniers) given the short wheelbase.


greg
From: BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Riding Down Stairs
Date: 14 Apr 92 19:03:25 GMT

Mike Haggerty writes:

> I was wondering what effect riding down stairs on a Mountain Bike can
> have on the bike.  I ride around on my campus a lot, and in many
> situations it is just easier to go down a few stairs than to go around
> a building.

It shouldn't cause any invisible problems and they are not limited to
MTB's,  Road bikes ride down stairs here at the University where we
have plenty of outdoor stone steps as well, with no ill effects.
Just make sure you don't run too low a tire pressure or you'll get
snake bites and possibly dings in the rims.  Check out the Avocet City
Tire ads with a bike messenger going down the stairs of a bank in SF.
What sort of damage to your bike did you have in mind.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles:8600 rec.autos.driving:2158 ca.driving:759 rec.motorcycles:12212