From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: ba.politics
Subject: Re: "Monsters Among Us", Frontlines, November 10, 1992, PBS
Date: 22 Nov 92 23:00:11 GMT
	    <102607@bu.edu>
	    <1992Nov21.023057.21452@netcom.com>
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <1992Nov21.023057.21452@netcom.com>
phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes:

>In article <102607@bu.edu> kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:

>>By saying homosexuality has no victims, you [Clayton Cramer] are then
>>contradicting your own theory that homosexuals are the
>>victims of child molestation. And once again (is this EVER
>>going to sink in?) it is FIXATED MOLESTERS, not homosexuals,
>>who molest in disproportionate numbers.

>Close, but no cigar. Inventing two new sexual orientations may be
>fine for your "stretching" attempt to claim that men that molest
>young boys aren't homosexuals, but I see NO evidence that this
>position is acceptable to anyone else.

Well, have it out with some of the experts, then:

$	Dawn C. Haden, ed. _Out of Harm's Way: Readings on Child
$	Sexual Abuse, Its Prevention and Treatment_, 1986.
$
$	viz. Groth, Hobson, and Gray, "The Child Molester: Clinical
$	Observations", pp 141-154.
$
$	p 142:	"...men who sexually molest boys are misidentified as
$		 homosexuals when they are in fact pedophiles."
$
$	p 144:  "TABLE 1. Typology of Child Molesters
$		FIXATED TYPE
$		1. Primary sexual orientation is to children
$		(...)
$
$	p 145:	[Case] "Scott is a 20 yr old [pedophile who] never experienced
$		being attracted to men or women"
$
$	p 146:	"In general, fixated child molesters are drawn to children
$		 sexually in that they identify with the child and appear in
$		 some ways to want to remain children themselves. It is for
$		 this reason that the trend for fixated ofenders is to target
$		 boys as victims. This does not represent a homosexual object
$		 choice, psychologically, but a narcissistic one."

>The two new sexual orientations are men that molest small boys,
>which aren't homosexuals by your reasoning, and men that molest small
>girls, which aren't hetereosexuals by your reasoning (via extension).

Right, except that most men who molest girls are REGRESSED molestors, that
is they have a fully developed heterosexual identity, but regress into
pedophilia. Most men who molest boys are fixated molesters, and have never
developed an adult sexual identity.

>Clever.

Not at all. Just following expert opinions.

>You know, 47% of all violent crimes are committed by black males. Using
>your logic, I can claim that blacks commit NO crimes -- those people
>with black skins commiting that 47% aren't blacks, but CRIMINALS!

Correcting for factors like poverty and lack of role models, you would
probably find that black men are no more likely (given the same circum-
stances) to commit crime than white men.

But the circumstances are different. And that's crucial, not only for
your crime analysis, but for the general psychological analyses of
the two recognized types of pedophilia.

>Sorry -- sexual orientation is defined by WHAT you are attracted to,

And how far along in its development it is. Being attracted to men
certainly is NOT the same as being attracted to boys.

I don't know if you're just being dense, or what.

>not the AGE of what you are attracted to! Otherwise, some men aren't
>hetereosexuals, they are men-fixated-on-nubile-18-year-old-large-
>breasted-dumb-bimbos and so on.

Nope. If you say a man attracted to boys is homosexual, that means
a homosexual is attracted to boys. I'm gay, but I find absolutely
no sexual attraction in boys. Therefore, your identification is bogus.

$	Seth L. Goldstein, _The Sexual Exploitation of Children: A
$		Practical Guide to Assessment, Investigation, and
$		Intervention_, Elsevier Science Publishing Co., NY,
$		1987.
$
$	p 30:	"FALLACY: Homosexuals molest children.
$		 TRUTH: The offender is not homosexual. Pedophilia
$		 must be viewed as a completely separate issue from
$		 gender and sexual preference.
$
$	p 35:	"The myth that to be molested by a man will cause a
$		 a boy to become bay is widespread."
--
Brian
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,
Boston, MA 02215. True personal salvation is achieved by absolute faith in
ones true self.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: ba.politics,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.elections,co.politics,ne.politics,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d