HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Slam-fire Translation
Date: 9 Jan 93 22:15:45 GMT
Organization: russ at home in Albuquerque New Mexico

In article <9301090728.AA22894@zippy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
#My theory:
#
#The guy got the gun and didn't bother to clean it before shooting.
#There was probably dirt or gunk in the bolt, causing the firing pin
#to stick forward.  When he released the bolt, the gun fired.  Since
#he didn't have it under control, the gun proceeded backwards.  The
#firing pin remained stuck, causing all rounds to chamber and fire.

That's not the only way for this to happen.  On a batch of 5 SKSs that
we got in for a local group I got the only one that seemed to have a
problem like this one.  

I cleaned the entire firearm, including disassembling the bolk and
cleaning it's parts.  The whole firearm was disassembled and cleaned,
the action cycled and all seemed to be in order.  On taking it to the
range it was found that the hammer followed the bolt.  For those
readers that aren't familiar with the terminology that means that when
the bolt went forward and locked the hammer was released by the sear
and flew forward, firing the round.  The sear likely didn't have
sufficient engagement to handle the bolt in full recoil but did have
enough the bolt when manually released.

There was no way to predict the above short of firing.  I later found
that if I released the magazine well (to release the bolt catch) and
pulled the bolt all the way to the rear and released it I could get
the hammer to follow the bolt.

I've always considered firing a firearm for the first time a somewhat
hazardous business, and this experience clinched that feeling.

-- 
Russ Kepler, posting from home   russ@bbx.basis.com, bbxrbk!russ@bbx.basis.com
"It's better to be quotable than to be honest" - Tom Stoppard
From: aeporro@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Bob Porro)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Extend HK-91/93 Buttstock?
Date: 8 Jan 93 22:22:17 GMT
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center

In article <1993Jan7.190716.8738@yenta.alb.nm.us>, mailrus!gatech!unmvax!bbx!yenta!ben@uunet.UU.NET (Ben Klausner) writes...
#A friend of mine has an HK-91 rifle, but finds that the plastic stock is a 
#little too short for his long arms. On other (wooden stock) rifles, he has
#added a rubber recoil protector, more for the extra inches than for the
#padding.  Unfortunately, neither of us can see a way to do this on a HK
#without using glue, or some such. This is not an optimal solution.
# 
#Does anyone have a suggestion? Thanks.
# 

I believe that HK does make this very accessory -- a buttstock extension device
for the 91 and 93.  I'm sure that a local HK dealer in your area can give you 
more details.

******************************************************************************
| Bob Porro                    || (The opinions expressed here are not       |
| aeporro@venus.lerc.nasa.gov  ||  necessarily those of the management ?\*!) |
|                              ||                                            |
******************************************************************************
From: ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Cinder Blocks
Date: 8 Jan 93 22:22:37 GMT
Organization: NMSU Computer Science

<In article <199301070520.AA09298@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
<   In article <1993Jan6.210829.16077@samba.oit.unc.edu> rslugg@med.unc.edu (Robert Slugg) writes:
<   #...Having spent a couple of summers
<   #working in a brick yard, I can say with a fair amount of certainty that
 <  #cinder blocks are surprisingly fragile except in the center and on the
 <  #ends.

 <  As I understood it, cinder blocks are extremely weak under tension
 <  (i.e. if you try to pull it apart), but fairly strong under compression.
 <  Since a bullet would be doing the later, I suspect a shot might not
 <  penetrate well. The hollow space might help also: The bullet would probably
 <  penetrate the first layer, but be somewhat deflected. It would then hit the
 <  second layer at a greater angle which would reduce penetration. 

	It's even stranger than that; having shot at some cinder
	block walls from distances of 3 meters to 30 meters
	with various firarms (hey, it was a semi-scientific
	test, ok?) I can say that cinder blocks do not
	always react in the same fashion to handgun bullets.

	First of all, even .357 hollowpoint bullets can "splatter" on
	the first layer. They also can punch a neat hole in
	the first layer and "splatter" on the second layer,
	or punch a neat hole in the first layer and a larger
	hole in the second layer. Obviously the variability
	has to do with whether the hollowpoint opens up or not.

	.357 cast lead semi-wad cutters tend to punch through
	the first and crater the second layer, but not always;
	sometimes they punch through both. 

	I strongly suspect that the initial striking angle
	has a lot to do with both the first and second layer
	penetration. The first layer is obvious; however,
	if the bullet begins to tumble it's penetration of
	the second layer will be affected. Also, if the
	bullet encounters the midsection reinforcing part,
	all bets are off.

	Rifle bullets do, as expected, a great deal more
	damage and appear to be more predictable. Cinder blocks
	filled with cement obviously react differently.

	Interesting point: I recall no ricochets at all when
	shooting at cinder blocks.
From: loia@leland.Stanford.EDU (David Loia)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Extend HK-91/93 Buttstock?
Date: 8 Jan 93 22:22:49 GMT
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA

In article <1993Jan7.190716.8738@yenta.alb.nm.us> mailrus!gatech!unmvax!bbx!yenta!ben@uunet.UU.NET (Ben Klausner) writes:
#A friend of mine has an HK-91 rifle, but finds that the plastic stock is a 
#little too short for his long arms. On other (wooden stock) rifles, he has
#added a rubber recoil protector, more for the extra inches than for the
#padding.  Unfortunately, neither of us can see a way to do this on a HK
#without using glue, or some such. This is not an optimal solution.
#
#Does anyone have a suggestion? Thanks.
#
#-- 
# ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
#  inet: ben@yenta.alb.nm.us     |  N5DJL       | My opinions are my own.
#  CI$:  76337,1730              |              | Who else would want them?
# ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
#



HK makes a bubber butt stock extension. It adds about 1" length and
it is also wider and taller. Even though it costs $30, it makes that
blow-back (pardon me: delayed blow-back) HK91 much more pleasant to
shoot. This accessory is a direct replacement for the plastic butt
that is already on the HK. No tools or modifications are needed to
install.
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SKS Slam-fire/full auto = $1.4 million
Date: 11 Jan 93 01:05:22 GMT
Organization: Sun

In article <1993Jan8.113443.7253@nntp.hut.fi> mjalava@lk-hp-20.hut.fi (Mika Matti Jalava) writes:
#In article <930107234210_71773.3463_DHG72-1@CompuServe.COM> 71773.3463@CompuServe.COM (Brian  T. Millin) writes:
#
##To paraphrase, two years ago John E. Murray let the bolt drop on an SKS-47
##sold as the "Cowboy Companion" by Navy Arms when it slam-fired and went
##full auto. It tore loose from his grip and moved backward, firing one
##bullet through his back killing him instantly. The rifle dumped 7 rounds
##in less than one second, lodging under the tire of his truck 38 feet away.
#
#Sounds unbelievable! I suppose this SKS was chambered in 7.62x39, as
#they usually are. The cartridge has so low recoil that at least in
#AK-47-type guns you barely notice it, not even to speak about going 38
#feet with 7 shots. How heavy is an SKS? You can empty a 30 rnd
#magazine in a full auto AK with not too much trouble (of course the
#accuracy is not the best possible :-). The accident itself sounds
#possible, but the 38 feet...

According to the Murkey News article on Friday, the dead guy was *not*
holding the rifle with both hands when he pulled the bolt to chamber
a round.  It was sitting on the table infront of him, and he pulled it
with one hand.  Really stupid.

On the other hand, the article repeatedly referred to the rifle as an
SKS-47, and said that the rifle went off on its own and killed the guy.

The 38 (I recall 36 feet quoted) foot disance between shooting position
and final resting position of the rifle probably came either from police
or court records.

I believe that the accident (or negligent, in this case) occurred at the
Los Altos Rod and Gun Club range, which is 20 miles or more from Los Altos
up in the Santa Cruz mountains.  Depending on which part of the range he
was at, the road behind the firing line runs downhill fairly steeply at some
parts and the rifle sliding 30 feet downhill wouldn't be impossible.

--
-------------------------------------------------------
| Some things are too important not to give away      |
| to everybody else and have none left for yourself.  |
|------------------------ Dieter the car salesman-----|
From: qui@aus.intel.com (qui hoang)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: COLT CAR-15 9mm
Date: 8 Jan 93 22:22:40 GMT

Hello,
I just bought a Colt CAR-15 9mm (model 6450). I inspected it and understood
most of the internal changes that make this a 9mm, except for two:
 * the hammer is chopped off at the top (I suspect this is necessary to clear
   the new bolt carrier, which is closed at the top)
 * the hammer has a horizontal slot cut into its face, just below where it 
   strikes the firing pin
Could somebody please give me an explanation for that, and tell me what you
think about the gun if you own one. I would think it should last forever
shooting 9mm in a gun designed for 5.56mm.

Thank you,
QH
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: .22 Magnum Semi-Autos
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:22:10 GMT

AMT's Automag II and the Grendel P30 have been mentioned before.

In rifles, AMT is introducing a .22 autoloader that looks a lot like
the old H&R .22 rifle, but in stainless with a laminated stock.

Marlin is also bringing one out, using an action similar to their
9mm and .45 carbines.

Rob
From: mjalava@lk-hp-3.hut.fi (Mika Matti Jalava)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Speaking of .32 H&R magnum
Date: 7 Jan 93 13:47:36 GMT
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology

In article <1993Jan5.181301.24875@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bobd@marune.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula) writes:

#AIYEEEEEEEEE! That was a scream of anguish. The only European .32 S&W
#autoloaders I can think of offhand are the SIG/Hamerlis (P-240?).

If .32 S&W is the same thing as .32 S&W long (and always the wadcutter
load in these autos), at least Fiocchi, Walther and Unique come to my
mind, also the (now discontinued, I suppose) Sako with different
barrel/slide assemblies for 22short, .22lr and .32 S&W long.

	Mika
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Major 9
Date: 5 Jan 93 14:54:55 GMT
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

In article <1993Jan5.011937.29053@henson.cc.wwu.edu>, n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
#71773.3463@CompuServe.COM (Brian  T. Millin) writes:
#
##9x21 uses different brass, similar to 9x19 but 2mm longer and stronger 
##throughout. These are high-pressure loads for major as well, but there
#
#	I think that the 9x21 is merely longer, with no change in
#case strength.  With more initial case volume, max pressures would 
#be slightly lower, but I was also under the impression that OAL was
#about the same anyway.

	The reason I claimed that 9 Major = 9x21 (Ballistically
	speaking) is the the above is basiclly true: The max COL is
	the same, and the brass in just 2mm longer in the
	9x21. I cut CP 9x21 cases back to 9x19 length, there is
	about ~4 grains difference from a Federal 9mm case. So yes, 
	the case is a little heavier, with a little less case
	volume. If you used heavier +p 9mm brass, I see no reason
	that you wouldn't have identical internal ballistics for
	a given load. 

	But feel free to flame me anyway, the facts not withstanding. . ;)

#
#JD
*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu
From:  (MJ)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: M1 Garand help needed...
Date: 5 Jan 93 14:55:31 GMT


MPI Stocks
Box 83266 
Portland, Oregon  97383

American Rifleman April '92

MJ

[As if you didn't already know, my opinions are my own and not my
company's.]
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 'falling' bullets
Date: 10 Jan 93 17:09:50 GMT
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

In article <1993Jan10.003001.23019@btree.uucp>, btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale) writes:
#In article <C0Iw9F.LK6@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini) writes:
##In article <1993Jan7.170226.3782@btree.uucp>, btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale) writes:
###In article <1993Jan6.164626.14780@news.eng.convex.com> tford@convex.com (Tom Ford) writes:
####I heard a local news report on New Years Day about people shooting off guns in
####town to celebrate the new year, not a smart thing to do.  I was wondering
####what are the ballistics like for a falling bullet after it has been shot
####at near 90 degrees elevation.
###
###
###Terminal velocity for common bullets is in the neighborhood of 300 fps
###(about 200 mph).  This is quite sufficient to kill someone - just
###read the newspaper for places like Los Angeles on January 2.
##
##	I doubt it. The stories I read are that people are being killed
##	by bullets that are coming in their windows, not through the
##	roof, or out of the sky. Yes, I have read of deaths caused
##	by more or less vertically falling bullets, but not many.
#
#I refer you to the Los Angeles Times for January 2, either 1989 or
#1990 where the story of a teenage girl who died from a bullet which
#entered her head at a near vertical angle was reported.  She was
#sitting on her front porch.
#
#Such deaths are rare but *they are completely avoidable*.  Since
#a vertically falling bullet can injure or kill the bullet should
#not be fired in an uncontrolled situation (such as in the middle
#of the city).


	I did say they were rare, not no-existant. I've been
	flamed in email already by somone who seems to think
	I'm advocating shooting into the air. For the slow
	amoung you, please realize that though the likely-
	hood of killing someone by shooting straight up is
	small, it is still possible. If you must shoot your
	gun off to celibrate something, please aim at your
	own foot. [ ***** <--- Joke *******]


*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Black-powder, Pyrodex or ?
Date: 9 Jan 93 14:25:17 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <1993Jan8.150758.18268@ra.msstate.edu> dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb) writes:
# ...  Pyrodex, the Blackpowder
#Alternative" by Robert Hunnicutt in _The_American_Rifleman_, v 134, n 5
#(May 1986) (p.40). Pyrodex is a mixture of fuels and oxidizers along the
#same lines as blackpowder but with some characteristics that make it 
#cleaner and easier to use than blackpowder. The article says that the 
#contents are a secret. Hmmmm, I wonder, does anyone have a MSDS for
#Pyrodex? I still think that modern chemistry should be able to reproduce
#the interior ballistics of blackpowder without the corrosion.
# ...

  Here is some information which I tracked down from the Patent
Number on the Pyrodex can (and posted over a year ago.)

Deflagrating propellant compositions
Patent No. 4,128,443  1978  Daniel E. Pawlak, et. al.

  This is an interesting patent - read it and you'll find out a
lot about making black powder, and about the characteristics and
limitations of black powder.  It gives some history, and points
out that since 1560 that black powder composition has been around
75% potassium nitrate, 10% sulfur, and 15% charcoal.  It then
discusses the advantages of smokeless gunpowder which produces
products which are almost entirely gas, vs. black powder which
produces 56% solids, 43% gas and some water, and which leads to
corrosion.

  The claims relate to incorporation of some water, and some
new ingredients in the mixture.  (Without the new ingredients,
water is deleterious to black powder.)

Approx. parts by weight
30-82.5 of oxygen containing oxidizer - e.g. nitrate, perchlorate,
	chlorate, permanganate.  Especially useful are perchlorate
	or nitrate of ammonium or alkalai metals.
14.5-45 of organic carboxylic acids or oxidizable derivatives,
	e.g. benzoate, etc. of ammonium or alkalai metals.
1-25    of water

  This apparently can be used as is, or mixed 20-50% by weight
with the usual black powder ingredients.  Also added can be various
binders, stabilizer, water producers and catalysts.

  A number of specific examples are given, with data on 
chamber pressure, projectile velocity, etc.

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
From: ben.sansing@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Ben Sansing)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Case Trimming
Date: 8 Jan 93 22:22:11 GMT
Organization: The Courts of Chaos * 501-985-0059 * Public Access Usenet


JH>hope to start reloading .308 and maybe the .30 (7.62x???) Russian
JH>(presuming I can find brass for the Russian, most of the stuff I have seen
JH>is copper coated steel).  Does anyone make an automated case trimmer?

Lyman, RCBS, and most other major reloading goods companies make
electrically-powered case trimmers. Lee Precision's cute little "hand"
trimming gadgets can be chucked in an electric drill... that's what I
use. Lots cheaper than spending $100+ on a conventional trimmer unit
with a motor on it.

7.62x39mm brass is not hard to come by. Midway (1-800-243-3220) seels
IMI brand cases (which are excellent!) for about $18/100, for new
unprimed brass. They also have Remington brass (new) for about $21/100.
IMI uses large rifle primers, Remington uses small rifle primers. Go
figure! Also, the Hansen sporting ammo (red & grey box) used good
boxed-primed non-corrosive brass cases and reloads well.

I may be one of the few people in the world who actually reloads for
7.62x39mm. My wife has a Ruger 77/MkII bolt action in the calibre, and
while we find the non-corrosive Norinco steel core stuff to shoot quite
well (we've actually gotten 1" groups at 100 yards... it's very
consistent stuff!), reloaded stuff is more accurate, plus I get to play
with expanding bullets (including some 100-gr. JHPs intended for .32 H&R
Mag... with a case full of #3031, these blow up the water-filled 2-liter
Coke bottles (plastic) and water jugs we set out, with extreme
prejudice!

JH>I told him about the "system" for lubricating cases using Lee water soluble
JH>lubricant and water and dunking the cases, but I have only used this with
JH>.223.  Has anyone out there used this idea with bigger cases?  If not, is

Don't know. I use Lee lube, but apply it by hand to each case... but
then, I don't use a progressive press, just an old (non-automated) Lee
Turret press...
---
 . SLMR 2.1a . She's 42, going on indefinitely.
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Major 9 loading data.
Date: 8 Jan 93 00:04:57 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <1993Jan6.175818.1361@chpc.org> rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes:
##I shoot 9Major.  My gun was built by Jim Boland.  I use the 
##162gr bullet loaded to 38Super (from here on refered to as 
##the 38Stupid) over all length (OAL).  The gun is perfectly 
##safe.  I have been using for 4 years and some of my brass 
##has made Major 8 to 10 times.
##
#
#What countries do you do this shooting in (since 9mm, by USPSA
#definitional edict, cannot make major in the US)?

I do this in the US.  While the USPSA has deemed that the 9mm cannot make
major, that is for the purpose of Sanctioned matches, many local clubs will
still let me declare major, unless it is a Classifier.  They know me and
know that I'm safe.  For Classifiers I won't declare major at this time.

Bill	burge@qdeck.com
From: edhresko@hresko.eos.ncsu.edu (ERIC DAVID HRESKO)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Report on Chech Vz-52 pistol.
Date: 12 Jan 93 18:27:34 GMT
Organization: Techno-Geeks Inc.



|>BTW, you don't mean to imply that the barrel does not move, do you? The barrel
|>does recoil with the slide. It is locked to the slide and they recoil together
|>for  about 8 cm. It does not pitch downward as does the Colt .45 .

	That is in fact what I meant.  Because the barrel does not tip down,
there is no need for a barrel bushing.  One major cause for inaccuracy in a
"conventional" autoloader design is bad tolerences in bushing designs...
-- 


Eric

******************************************************************************
Eric Hresko		* Mail:  edhresko@eos.ncsu.edu                        
Kanki House of Steaks   * Voice: (why would you want to call?) 1-919-821-5168
Dishwasher 2nd Class    * HK Rules!!! (But a FAL will do in a pinch)         
DISCLAIMER:  I don't wear sandals, eat granola, or tiptoe thru the Tulips    
                                                                             
At what temp will a frog become a superconductor?                             
				-Me at 3 a.m.                                
******************************************************************************
From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Class III Question
Date: 8 Jan 93 22:23:14 GMT
Organization: The Courts of Chaos * 501-985-0059 * Public Access Usenet


-> don't have too much such readers?  I would guess that anyone who
-> handloads much for their SMG doesn't have much time to read net
-> news...)]

 I have it easy.  My wife does all the loading for the MAC and the
handguns, and I load the rifle cases because she doesn't like to lube
the brass before shoving it through the die.  <sigh>  Now, if carbide
rifle dies were available...
From: edhresko@hresko.eos.ncsu.edu (ERIC DAVID HRESKO)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gattling principle, Minigun
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:59:25 GMT
Organization: Techno-Geeks Inc.


	The high volume of fire coupled with the relatively low rate of fire for
individual barrels, along with the inherent reliability of a mechanically driven
firearm...
-- 


Eric

******************************************************************************
Eric Hresko		* Mail:  edhresko@eos.ncsu.edu                        
Kanki House of Steaks   * Voice: (why would you want to call?) 1-919-821-5168
Dishwasher 2nd Class    * HK Rules!!! (But a FAL will do in a pinch)         
DISCLAIMER:  I don't wear sandals, eat granola, or tiptoe thru the Tulips    
                                                                             
At what temp will a frog become a superconductor?                             
				-Me at 3 a.m.                                
******************************************************************************