From: sleibowitz@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: Re: A deep bit of flame bait (long)
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:20:12 GMT

I couldn't help but respond to this. Just look at the subject header.
 Sorry if the topic is stale already.

> It seems to me that a lot of you readers in TALK.RELIGION.MISC really enjoy
> winding up Christians by putting out smart remarks/replies to any old subject. 
> I would just like to clarify that there is some cause for us to defend our
> Faith, it does become very important to us, and I can imagine we do look very
> funny biting the way we do.

I disagree, and I'm actually a little offended that you think that is the
motivation behind most of these posts. On the incredibly rare occasions I post
to this list, it isn't because I have some strange urge to raise the hackles on
a few gentiles. Honestly, I've got better things to do with my time. It's
because (usually) I've read something I vehemently disagree with and feel
compelled to respond to (as is the case now). If it sounds smart-alecky to you,
I apologize. Write it off to anger at being treated like a child.

> However, it does leave me sad to think that all you guys out there are so happy
> to throw your insults at Christianity just because we appear to be dumb suckers,
> and you don't seem to want to take your lives seriously. Study, knowledge and
> understanding are all great things, but babies don't learn why they should eat,
> or indeed what is and isn't good for them as kids, before they start eating.
> Also you can't know exactly what it feels like to gain control of a car sliding
> in gravel until you've done it.

I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting. The way babies learn why they should
eat, or what is good or not for them, is through a combination of experience
and informal lessons in basic biology - there seems to be considerable evidence
that babies know what food is good for them before being told (no, I don't
remember the articles off hand). But, assuming that your analogy likens us to
theological "babies", are you seriously proposing that you know what's best for
us because you have some form of experience that we lack? I find that logic
specious at best: if you are speaking in the specific case, there are people
older than you who have rejected Christianity. If you mean in the general
sense, then remember that Christianity as a religion is in fact much younger
than most of the widespread religions of the world.

And don't beg off that argument by saying "It's not _my_ experience that's
superior to yours. It's _Christ's_." The logic is circular: it turns into a
"This religion is right because God says so" argument.

> Christianity is real life, not textbook life, and you have to give it a go
> before you can really experience it. I don't want to make anyone a Christian,
> because that could make me proud. I want everyone to look for Christianity
> themselves, then the Holy Spirit (who Christ left to support the Church) can do
> the work of revealing to you all the truth of Christianity. And I am looking
> forward to meeting all of you who seek earnestly for him, in heaven at the end
> of these days.

This _really_ confuses me. If "you have to give it a go before you can really
experience it," does that mean that _after_ you've converted, you become a
believer? I was under the impression that belief was a prerequisite to
conversion. And as far as pride is concerned, I don't think you have anything
to worry about. You're no more capable of "making" me into a Christian than I
am of "making" you into an ice cream cone.
  
> Sorry that I care about you all, but it's too hard to stop me now.

Sorry that you think that I resent your caring about me. It's your
holier-than-thou attitude I resent. And I hope that it's not to late to lose
that.
 
> *******************************************************************************
> from:arron@waikato.ac.nz			Arron Scott
> 						University of Waikato
> *******************************************************************************

						Your humble servant,
					Samuel "Smiling Wolf" Leibowitz
					sleibowitz@hamp.hampshire.edu
						email replies welcome
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc