HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ernest@pundit.cithep.caltech.edu (Ernest Prabhakar)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Software for NRW
Date: 6 Oct 1992 17:44:59 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: world
Reply-To: ernest@pundit.cithep.caltech.edu (Ernest Prabhakar)
NNTP-Posting-Host: pundit.cithep.caltech.edu

In article <oeoOc_u00WB08dE0lr@andrew.cmu.edu> cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Charles  
William Swiger) writes:
> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.next.advocacy: 6-Oct-92 Software for NRW
> tlc@cx5.com (151)
> >
> >Will the software I run now on an 040 machine run on the RISC machine?
> 
> No.  The 680x0 and the various kinds of RISC chips do not share a common
> instruction set; therefore *everything* will have to be recompiled.

Well, maybe.  For example, IBM & Apple's "PowerPC" chip from Motorola claims to  
have a decent emulator for 680x0 code, so that old Mac programs will run at a  
reasonable speed.  Makes sense, since I think Motorola designed the 88k with an  
eye towards it replacing the 68k series in some sense.  And the PowerPC is  
supposed to be so fast that software emulation is "fast enough."

Now, whether it is fast enough for you, whether they will charge extra for the  
emulator, etc., I don't know, but some sort of backwards compatibility will  
probably be available.

- Ernie P.

--
Ernest N. Prabhakar                  Caltech High Energy Physics
Member, League for Programming Freedom (league@prep.ai.mit.edu)
CaJUN President        NeXTMail:ernest@pundit.cithep.caltech.edu
"...and ourselves, your servants for Jesus sake." - II Cor 4:5b
#import <std/disclaimer.h>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: jeffo@uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
Subject: Re: NeXT RISC machine out in first half 93...!?
Reply-To: jeffo@uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 05:28:26 GMT

Jim De Arras writes
> I've heard all of you clearly on this. I'm frankly amazed that such a
> large group of otherwise intelligent folks can accept that NeXT will
> lie to them, and  not rebel against it. I don't understand California
> law, but they'd be out of business by now if they were based in
> Virginia.  Here, bait and switch is still illegal. 

For some dumb reason, businesses seem to have different laws by which they can  
operate.  False advertising just doesn't seem to be a crime anymore.  For a  
NeXT-specific example of false advertising, try the NeXTdimension board between  
the time the board came out and the new product brochures came out.  That was  
prime time to sue.
-- 
-- Jeff (jeffo@uiuc.edu)
-- NeXTmail ok
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: kocks@jessica.stanford.edu (Peter Kocks)
Subject: Re: NeXTStep :-) , Wind/X11 :-(   [was: In BYTE (NeXT) ]
Organization: Academic Information Resources
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 00:05:12 GMT

In article <66790@cup.portal.com> sailer@cup.portal.com (Lee Douglas Sailer) writes:
>>
>
>While I mostly agree with the points made in this post, I have to
>point out that it is **possible** that NeXT made one or two teensy, tiny
>mistakes.  Not allowing the key window to stay in the back is one of them.
>

Oh, of course NeXT can make a lot of mistakes.  But, I would rather
have a few mistakes and have everything be consistent, than let every
programmer override everything and create an environment that is far
too complex to be understood quickly.

--PK



Lines: 17
Date: Mon,  5 Oct 92 09:22:07 MDT
From: yackd@alaska.et.byu.edu (Don Yacktman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Distribution: world
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA
Subject: Re: PR Blunder of the Millennium!


In article <1992Oct2.212525.26822@leland.Stanford.EDU>, spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (Stefano Pagiola) writes:
>Judy Halchin writes
>> > Yea, Clark has been a long-time Amigaphile...
>> 
>> In what I believe is his most recent novel (I don't have it
>> here and can't recall the title), the main character uses a
>> "NeXT Mach 8" or "NeXT Model 10" or something like that.  It
>> was even spelled with the correct capitalization.
>> 
>"The Ghost of the Grand Banks."  And the computer is a NeXT Mark IV.   
>In typical Clarkian fashion, he inserts a parenthetical comment that  
>in that year (2012) the NeXT was no longer a cutting edge computer.
>
Ahhh, so he is predicting that by then the NeXT will be mainstream.  :-)

- Don Yacktman
From: alex@fiskville.mc.utexas.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Make it Cheap
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:09:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: ut-emx.80731

There seem to be a lot of people here who think that NeXT and NeXTstep  
would be great to have if they could only get them cheap. Some would have  
NeXT offer reduced performance systems, diskless systems, smaller  
monitors, no frills and "consumer grade" systems in order to grab more  
market share. People want the power of NeXTstep but they don't want to  
spend the money to get it. Should NeXT cripple their machines with small  
displays and cheaper components and release NeXTstep for Mac, DOS, and  
TI-99?

No.

NeXT has already "sold their birthright" by doing away with the Optical  
Disk (something which would be great on any system) and expansion slots  
(no multiprocessor boards I guess)... two things which originally put NeXT  
way ahead of the field have been undone to increase "market penetration".  
Next we'll see the DSP removed, smaller monitors and (gak) VGA support,  
and the demise of Display Postscript as the lowest common denominator gets  
lower and lower. 

NeXT could have been (and may still be) the Rolls Royce of desktop  
computers but this sort of "feature removal" may soon make it akin to the  
Volkswagon. My point? If you want the top of the line you have to pay for  
it. Rolls Royce doesn't have a lot of Market Penetration but they make a  
damn fine car and they make them right. This, I think, is the way NeXT  
should go. It is better in my opinion to serve 10 people well than to  
serve 10,000 poorly.

Humbly (if a bit fervently)
Alex Currier
Texas Union MicroCenter HotLine
University of Texas at Austin
From: sailer@cup.portal.com (Lee Douglas Sailer)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXTStep :-) , Wind/X11 :-(   [was: In BYTE (NeXT) ]
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 16:15:19 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Sep24.191219.29130@fnbc.com>
  <1992Sep25.175503.6592@leland.Stanford.EDU>

>
>This discussion exemplifies precisely why NeXTStep is great and why
>Windows and X are horrible.  The programmer is forced to obey
>guidelines that don't necessarily make sense to him/her.  But, at some
>later time the programmer realizes the point of why the guideline
>exists and to his/her surprize their program already conforms to the
>standard.  This creates an environment (your windowing system) which
>is both consistent and complex.  
>

... followed by a long discussion of why Interface Thought Police are
        good

While I mostly agree with the points made in this post, I have to
point out that it is **possible** that NeXT made one or two teensy, tiny
mistakes.  Not allowing the key window to stay in the back is one of them.

lee
From: feijai@endor.byu.edu (Sean Luke)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need help over in comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Date: 7 Oct 92 05:16:28 GMT
Reply-To: sean@digaudio.byu.edu

In article <1992Oct6.120605.1002@yvax.byu.edu>  writes:
>John Coolidge, who has for a long time insisted on the net that NeXTs are  
>inferior to Macs and now works for Apple, refuses to stop telling  
everyone  
>at comp.sys.mac.advocacy that NeXTSTEP comes free with NeXTs.  I have  
>posted, telling him that, with the exception of NS486 (of course) his  
>assertation is false, but he keeps coming back insisting that he's seen  
>the price sheet and talked to sales people and that he knows, for  
certain,  
>that NeXTs don't come with NeXTSTEP.


I was irked when I wrote that, and although the material is correct, I  
feel an error needs to be corrected to be fair to John.  While in many of  
his postings John has long argued that NeXTs are overkill (and unneeded),  
he has *not* to my knowledge said NeXTs are inferior to Macs.  In my post  
I flamed him inappropriately.

Sorry again.

--

Sean Luke
Brigham Young University                   MILK:  It Comes From Cows
sean@digaudio.byu.edu  
NeXTmail and nifty Mac stuff welcome
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Make it Cheap
Date: 3 Oct 92 13:47:38 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics

In article <1992Oct2.183542.15337@cs.yale.edu> nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu writes:

[ ]
>>  
>> In any case, I just have to wonder about this minimum hardware price. I
>> don't believe it.
>
>Ah jeez, Philip, don't you think your going to have to do a better
>job defending your statements than "I don't believe it"?  Right
>now, it is your opinion vs. the opinion of the NeXT engineers
>that decided to not support the 386, and recommend the fastest
>PC bus (localbus) for video.  Guess who I tend to believe?

The don't believe it concerns the price of a local bus 486. They are
inexpensive up here.
 
As for who you should believe, well that's up to you! Did you believe NeXT
when they said the Cube was upgradeable?
 
Let's see 386+ cache controller +387. What is it that the 486 has that this
combination does not?
 
Anyway, is the product still called NS486? Or NS PC?
 
Philip
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: m@crito.stanford.edu (M Carling)
Subject: Re: NeXT Nitro?
Reply-To: mcarling@NetForce.com (M Carling)
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 92 18:09:33 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.183707.15463@cs.yale.edu>  
nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette) writes:
> I believe Moto announced there would not be a 50 MHz 68040, just a
> 40 MHz version, and then they will be working on the 68060...

That's correct, but then Motorola subsequently announced that the 40MHz  
version would ship by the end of 92 and that a 50MHz version would ship Q2  
93, with the 060 shipping by Q4 93.

M Carling
Director, Bay Area NeXT Group
General Manager, NetForce Inc.
--
"High tech is potent, precise, and in the end, unbeatable. The truth is,  
it reminds a lot of people of the way I pitch horseshoes. Would you  
believe some of the people? Would you believe our dog? Look, I want to  
give the high-five signal to high tech."
                          George Bush, 4/25/89
From: ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Are there any NeXT user groups in Austin?
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:12:09 GMT
Reply-To: ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd)
Distribution: austin
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: ifbb657@donald.cc.utexas.edu

The subject sez it all.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
******* ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas R. Floyd) ******
------------------------------------------------------------
|            (Insert standard disclaimer here)             |
|  I would rather have a frontal lobotomy than Windows NT! |
------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: Make it Cheap
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 06:55:23 GMT

In article <80731@ut-emx.uucp> alex@fiskville.mc.utexas.edu writes:
>There seem to be a lot of people here who think that NeXT and NeXTstep  
>would be great to have if they could only get them cheap. Some would have  
>NeXT offer reduced performance systems, diskless systems, smaller  
>monitors, no frills and "consumer grade" systems in order to grab more  
>market share. People want the power of NeXTstep but they don't want to  
>spend the money to get it. Should NeXT cripple their machines with small  
>displays and cheaper components and release NeXTstep for Mac, DOS, and  
>TI-99?
>
>No.

I couldn't disagree more with this point of view. NeXT needs to offer entry
level computers so that younger people (students) will get them. This is a
different era than just a year or two ago. Low cost is in. Without that NeXT
will truly become a TI-99.
>
>NeXT has already "sold their birthright" by doing away with the Optical  
>Disk (something which would be great on any system) and expansion slots  
>(no multiprocessor boards I guess)... two things which originally put NeXT  
>way ahead of the field have been undone to increase "market penetration".  
>Next we'll see the DSP removed, smaller monitors and (gak) VGA support,  
>and the demise of Display Postscript as the lowest common denominator gets  
>lower and lower. 

The manner in which the OD was dropped was totally unacceptable, and many
people will never trust NeXT again. However that doesn't prevent them from
offering a range of computers priced according to the markets they are 
aiming at.
>
>NeXT could have been (and may still be) the Rolls Royce of desktop  
>computers but this sort of "feature removal" may soon make it akin to the  
>Volkswagon. My point? If you want the top of the line you have to pay for  
>it. Rolls Royce doesn't have a lot of Market Penetration but they make a  
>damn fine car and they make them right. This, I think, is the way NeXT  
>should go. It is better in my opinion to serve 10 people well than to  
>serve 10,000 poorly.

With that attitude you might find 10 applications for the NeXT which will 
serve all 10 customers in a proper manner. The BMW approach won't work.
 
Philip McDunnough
philip@nexus.yorku.ca
Xref: sparky comp.sys.next.advocacy:2481 comp.sys.next.misc:20405
From: Conrad_Geiger@NeXT.com (Conrad Geiger - Manager, International NeXT User Groups)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: NeXT User Groups in Texas (Re: Are there any NeXT user groups in Austin?)
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:24:58 GMT
Reply-To: user_groups@next.com
Followup-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy

In article <80747@ut-emx.uucp> ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd)
writes:
> 
> Subject: Are there any NeXT user groups in Austin?
> 
> The subject sez it all.
> 
> ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas R. Floyd)
> 

Douglas,

There are several NeXT User Groups in Texas, below are just a few of
the contacts...


in Austin

	Austin NeXT User Group
	Bill Dodd, President
	7505 Blue Beach Cove
	Austin, TX 78759
	Phone: (512) 331-9932
	Email: bill@mescal.cactus.org


	UT NeXT User Group
	Gary Terrell
	The University of Texas at Austin
	Computation Center
	Austin, TX 78712
	Phone (512) 471-0321
	Fax: (512) 471-6287
	Email: Terrell@jeremiah.cc.utexas.edu



and down the road in College Station / Bryan:

	Texas A&M NeXT User Group
	Walter Daugherity, Faculty Advisor
	Steve Bartholemew, President
	Dept of CS / Texas A&M University
	College Station, TX  77843-3112
	Phone: (409)845-1308
	Email:daugher@cs.tamu.edu and
              system@atlantis.tamu.edu and
              sbart@cs.tamu.edu
	Founded: September, 1990



and in San Antonio...

	UTSANUG - San Antonio NeXT User Group
	Daniel Shelton
	12200 IH-10 West #815
	San Antonio, TX 78230
	Phone: (512) 691-5594 (Work)
	Email: dan@ennex1.eng.utsa.edu
	


and in Houston...

	hAng (Houston Area Next Group)
	John R. Glover, president
	E.E. Department
	University of Houston
	Houston, TX  77204-4793
	Phone: (713)743-4430
	Fax: (713) 741-2641
	Email: glover@uh.edu


and at The Woodlands (north of Houston)...

	LoNG - Logical Objectives NeXT Group
	Vince Jordan
	WilTel
	P.O. Box 9358.
	The Woodlands, TX 77387
	Phone: (713)364-4125
	Email: wiltel!vince_jordan@uunet.uu.net


and in Dallas...

	DaNG (Dallas Area NeXT Group)
	Chris Bradley, Program Director
	7113 Northpointe Drivel
	The Colony, Texas 75056
	Phone: (214) 830-2273 M-F 8-5
	Email: cbradley@bozell.com			


and in Nacogdoches (East Texas)...

	SFA NeXT User Group
	Joe McWilliams
	Department of Mathematics
	Stephen F Austin State Univ.
	Nacogdoches, TX 75962
	Phone: (409)568-1702
	Email: mcwilljg@euler.sfasu.edu




best wishes,
conrad geiger
International NeXT User Groups

Hook 'em horns
From: billb@fnbc.com (Bill Burcham)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re:   In BYTE (NeXT) veritas
Date: 28 Sep 92 15:01:21 GMT
Organization: First National Bank Of Chicago, Chicago IL, USA

In article <dillon.0odh@overload.Berkeley.CA.US>  
dillon@overload.Berkeley.CA.US (Matthew Dillon) writes:
> >In article <1992Sep24.191219.29130@fnbc.com> billb@fnbc.com (Bill  
Burcham) writes:
> >>In article <dillon.0o6h@overload.Berkeley.CA.US>
> >W.R.T.:
> >> there is NO method to activate a window without also depth
> >> arranging it and it totally screws up my carefully arranged screen
> >You can bring _any_ window to the front _without_ making it key by
> >modifying your click with the alt key (alt-click).  I use this a lot  
when
> 
>     Yes, I know, but you CAN'T make a window the key window WITHOUT ALSO
>     BRINGING IT TO THE FRONT.  In otherwords, ANY TIME YOU CLICK IN A
>     WINDOW YOU BRING IT TO THE FRONT.
> 
>     I want to be able to click in a window, make it the key window
>     temporarily, but NOT rearrange it's depth ordering in any way.
> 
> >code while typing to the gdb session.
> >
> >Also try command followed by up or down arrow.  This will pop the  
bottom
> >window to the top, or push the top window to the bottom resp. w/o  
changing
> >the _key_ window.
> >
> >I hope this helps.  I have heard the same complaint many times from  
other
> >people who have come from the X-World.
> 
>     Yes, I do know about these things, and thank you for your help, but
>     they have little or nothing to do with the problem.  Having to go
>     through a dozen key or mouse clicks to fix what shouldn't have been
>     rearranged in the first place is not an acceptable solution.
> 
>     To reiterate, I want to be able to click into a partially obscured
>     window (say a shell window), type in it,then click back into my main
>     window without *ANY* windows changing their depth arrangement.
> 
> 					-Matt
> 
> >--
> > Bill Burcham
> 
> --
> 
>     Matthew Dillon		dillon@Overload.Berkeley.CA.US
>     1005 Apollo Way		uunet.uu.net!overload!dillon
>     Incline Village, NV. 89451	ham: KC6LVW (no mail drop)
>     USA 			Sandel-Avery Engineering (702)831-8000

I take back what I said about your being great in Singles!

--
Bill Burcham
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: jeffo@uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
Subject: Re: How to get packages to leave receipts in /LocalLibrary/Receipts
Reply-To: jeffo@uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:51:49 GMT

Garance A. Drosehn writes
> Hmm.  You could probably copy the receipts into the LocalLibrary directory.   
> That should work OK, except that attempts to delete a package won't delete  
> the copy of the receipt which is in /LocalLibrary.

Yeah, that's kind of a bummer though.

> In a similar vien, it seems to me that people should be able to get their  
> receipts in ~/Library/Receipts as well.

Bigger bummer.  Very big.

> I'd think this  
> would be important on machines which are regularly used by multiple users.

I thought that was one of the big points behind using a multi-user machine.
-- 
-- Jeff (jeffo@uiuc.edu)
-- NeXTmail ok
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: sears@tree.egr.uh.edu (Paul S. Sears)
Subject: Re: NeXT User Groups in Texas (Re: Are there any NeXT user groups in Austin?)
Reply-To: sears@tree.egr.uh.edu
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:00:13 GMT

In article <5230@rosie.NeXT.COM> Conrad_Geiger@NeXT.com (Conrad Geiger -  
Manager, International NeXT User Groups) writes:
=>In article <80747@ut-emx.uucp> ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd)
=>writes:
=>> 
=>> Subject: Are there any NeXT user groups in Austin?
=>> 
=>> The subject sez it all.
=>> 
=>> ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas R. Floyd)
=>> 
=>
=>Douglas,
=>
=>There are several NeXT User Groups in Texas, below are just a few of
=>the contacts...

And in Houston:

Houston Area NeXT Users Group
John Glover, President
Department of Electrical Engineering
University of Houston
Houston, Texas 77204-4793
(713) 743-4430
email: glover@uh.edu

--
Paul S. Sears                *  sears@uh.edu (NeXT Mail OK)
The University of Houston    *  suggestions@tree.egr.uh.edu (NeXT
Engineering Computing Center *  comments, complaints, questions)
NeXT System Administration   *  DoD#1967 '83 NightHawk 650SC 
          >>> SSI Diving Certification #755020059 <<<
"Programming is like sex: One mistake and you support it a lifetime."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why didn't Apple sue?
From: feijai@endor.byu.edu (Sean Luke)
Date: 3 Oct 92 11:37:22 -0700
Reply-To: sean@digaudio.byu.edu
Distribution: world

In article <1ajhcjINNt1e@agate.berkeley.edu>  writes:
>Karl Thoroddsen writes
>>Why didn't Apple sue NeXT for look-n-feel
>>when the NeXT Workspace shell was first released?
>
>Because care was taken to make sure legally that NeXT GUI decended
>from Xerox PARC inventions and not from the Mac.  It doesn't
>look-n-feel like a Mac anyway.


I would disagree.  In its suit against Windows, almost every convention  
that Apple noted (that I know of) exists, to an even greater extent, in  
the NeXT.  And the only convention that Apple won on (the trash can),  
exists in the NeXT (same place, same function, different icon) but not in  
Windows in a strict sense.  

It's clear to me that Jobs took a *lot* of his interface ideas with him to  
NeXT.  The NeXT has resize bars in the same place as the Mac, windows  
without menus, a flat windows-managing system (as a opposed to Windows'  
"windows-within-a-window" concept) and a Workspace Manager that is  
frighteningly similar to the Finder.  Windows has none of this.  Heck, the  
NeXT even ejects floppies by dragging them to the trash!

--

Sean Luke
Brigham Young University                   MILK:  It Comes From Cows
sean@digaudio.byu.edu  
NeXTmail and nifty Mac stuff welcome