HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jsnow@moons.sim.es.com (John Snow)
Subject: Is this a good price for a TR-81?
Keywords: Sony
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:59:35 GMT

A local authorized Sony dealer has offered to sell a new, in the box,
TR-81 to me for 1049.00.  Everyone here has them marked at 1199.00 and
I've been having a hard time getting them to lower their prices.

Those of you who've bought TR-81s recently, is this good price?

--John

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John F. Snow                         INET:           jsnow@moons.sim.es.com
Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.    
Salt Lake City, Utah                 America Online: JohnSnow  GEnie: J.SNOW2
From: brown@vidiot.UUCP (Vidiot)
Newsgroups: rec.video
Subject: Re: SVHS from Satellite
Date: 29 Jul 92 02:29:49 GMT
Reply-To: brown@vidiot.UUCP (Vidiot)
Organization: Vidiot's Hangout

In article <1992Jul27.201223.1@woods.ulowell.edu> freedmanm@woods.ulowell.edu writes:
<In article <1992Jul21.064034.10418@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, an660@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Sandy Maurer) writes:
<> 
<> All this talk on rec.satellite on SVHS vs composite video is
<> confusing to me. Its important to me in that Im still trying
<> to figure out which IRD to buy...one with the SVHS or w/o.
<> There is only one IRD with this feature however.
<> 
<> The consenus I believe that SVHS from satellite is just composite
<> video so stnrd SVHS connect would yield no gain....unlike an LD
<> player. What am I missing here?
<> 
<> Would the purchase of the SVHS output IRD be for nought?
<
<Well SVHS is has many more scan lines.. Upwars of around 500 where as most
<broadcasts are st 310... and VHS is 240.. The increase in resolution yields
<more definition.. Much better picture.... 

This thread has really gone wild now.

First off, SVHS is a video tape format and has nothing to do with satellite
transmissions.  I'm sure the original poster meant the S-connector, or other-
wise known as the Y/C connector.

Secondly the number of scan lines is fixed.  For NTSC it is 525.  The last
paragraph that is quoted above should be about resolution lines, not scan
lines.
-- 
      harvard\     att!nicmad\          spool.cs.wisc.edu!astroatc!vidiot!brown
Vidiot  ucbvax!uwvax..........!astroatc!vidiot!brown
      rutgers/            INTERNET:vidiot!brown%astroatc.UUCP@spool.cs.wisc.edu
                                   brown@wi.extrel.com
Newsgroups: rec.video
From: klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee)
Subject: Re: S-Video Connector
Reply-To: klee@wsl.dec.com
Organization: DEC Western Software Laboratory
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 00:42:30 GMT

|> Is S-VHS TV the same as a TV with a S-video input? 

The former is a bogus marketing term that really means the latter.

-- 
Ken Lee
DEC Western Software Laboratory, Palo Alto, Calif.
Internet: klee@wsl.dec.com
uucp: uunet!decwrl!klee
From: goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Goldberg)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Re: NBC and poor (?) signal
Date: 29 Jul 92 18:20:42 GMT
Reply-To: goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Goldberg)
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center, Annapolis, MD

In rec.video.production, an314@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Timothy Golobic) writes:
>if you're looking for reasons for degradation, think about the fact that
>these are NOT live, one generation to tape, plus they are edited,
>at least another generation to tape. plus, the events are beamed from actual

NBC is using Panasonic composite digital equipment (D-3) for production
of the coverage.  There is negligible gnerational loss in  editing with
digital video.  However, I too have noticed the strange appearances
- looks like stobing, fast-forward, or someothing unatural.  There are
other postings that bring up the possibility of compression loss.  Even
if a clean edit master is produced, there certainly is degradatioin
in transmission and any associated compression.

It is interesting that Panasonic has been touting the use of their 1/2"
composite digital stuff for the Olympics.  Their publicity could backfire.
To my eyes, the"old" analog based images looked better.  This embarrassment
couldn't happen to a nicer company!!!
   /|/| /||)|/  /~ /\| |\|)[~|)/~   |   Everyone's entitled to MY opinion.
  / | |/ ||\|\  \_|\/|_|/|)[_|\\_|  |      goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil
========Imagination is more important than knowledge. - Albert Einstein=======
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: byrn@quads.uchicago.edu (Zelda Pinwheel)
Subject: Re: Best Way to Learn
Reply-To: byrn@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 05:14:43 GMT

In article <34670010@hpmwmat.sr.hp.com> mikep@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Mike Powell) writes:
>	
>	Todd....
>
>	Books and watching many movies....
>
>	There is a really good book about _FILM_making that covers
>	the entire process of making a film.... writing, lighting, shooting
>	equipment, editing, sound, FX, color, filmstock, animation, scripts,
>	etc. etc... most of which is applicable to video (except camera/
>	projection related equipment).
>
>	The book is called: (from memory...)
>
>		The Complete Book of Movie Photography
>
>		by A. Knopff
>
>	(I sure hope I got the names right... I can find out for
>	sure if you'd like.)
>
>	-Mike-
>
>
>		
You are right.  Ihave the book, and I agree that it really does help you get an
idea of how to really think about how to make a film, to get it all set up in 
your mind, before you even begin to beg for actors.  for the record, I recently
saw a newer version of the book, called "The Complete Book of Video Photography"It looks to be basically the same thing.  Does anyone have this book, and know
if or how it is different from the earlier edition?

Zelda
byrn@quads.uchicago.edu


Xref: sparky rec.video.production:1122 rec.video:9489
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Thursday, 23 Jul 1992 12:15:43 EDT
From: (((ZERO))) <IO00844@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.video.production,rec.video
Subject: Re: Next Canon L1 question: jell pack batterys
Distribution: na
 <l6rvpcINNhpn@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> <1992Jul23.021633.3382@spcvxb.spc.edu>

I bought this battery for my Canon A1 Digital...which I've kept (since I
recently sold the A1) for use with the L1. It WILL fit the L1 and will last
around 4 hours or more. I bought mine for $90 (not inc. shipping). You can
get them cheaper though. Here's the battery info:

Subject: Re: The battery pack I ordered is *GOOD*

For those of you interested, here is some info. I gave out to someone else
who e-mailed me a request for the battery pack I ordered for 89.95 (plus s/h)
from Smile Photo.
-------------------------------------------------

I wouldn't really recommend Smile...but I've ordered from them 3 times without
much trouble. However, I didn't get a car cord as advertised...but I wasn't too
 upset about that (not at all really)...I wasn't expecting one...it didn't fit
the ad.

Here is the information about the battery directly from the box top:

               Extended Power
BESCOR       Battery For Canon
               Camcorders
---------------------------------------
           Model XP-77
         -Includes 110 volt A.C. charger
-Integral hookup cord using BP-E77, 718, 722 batteries

Specifications:                 Run times (approximate)
-6 volt 10,000 mah              -runs camcorder the same as
-wieght: 3.9 lbs                 6 to 10 "1 hour" batteries
-size: 4"h x 6"l x 2" d         -10 watt D.C. light: 6 hours
-Charge time: 16 to 20 hours    -20 Watt D.C. light: 3 hours
               Note: Stored battery must be charged every 6 months


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Additional info. from instruction sheet:

Before first use: charge this battery for (XL=4 hours) (XP=6 hours)
The battery has 75% to 95% of a full charge when it's new

Charge a 100% discharged battery for: (XP=24 hours)
If battery is only partly discharged determine extent of discharge & adjust
charge time accordingly.
Charging for more than 24 hours will shorten battery life
this battery doesn't have any memory effect
Always store battery fully charged

There you go...!
From: katz@clarity.Princeton.EDU (Irvin Katz)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Hi-8 VCR recommendations
Date: 31 Jul 92 21:09:05 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Princeton University Cognitive Science Lab
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU

Does anyone know of Hi-8 VCRs that sell for under $1000?  Sony makes a
nice 8mm VCR that sells for about $300, and I'm wondering if there is
a similarly portable VCR for Hi-8 format.  Please email replies to me
and I'll post a summary.

irv
--
From: brad@slammer.UUCP (Brad Isley)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Re: Why I picked TR-81 over TR-101
Date: 23 Jul 92 05:52:01 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Just me & my computers

In article <22459@oasys.dt.navy.mil> goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Goldberg) writes:
>where the TR-81 uses a (larger) 1/2-inch chip.  I also viewed the output
>of the two cameras on a color monitor and noticed that the 81 has a
>slighly better image - better color an image definition.  However, I
>admit that such could be due to a sample variation of the camcorders,
>or the monitors.  The stabilization was fairly effective at shooting

You'll find that long-range zooms are fuzzier than short-range zooms.

This is why I quit using zooms for 35mm.  They're (almost) all junk.
-- 
emory!slammer!brad   (Brad Isley)
+1 404 841-4169 Work			 Nopottopeein: "Howzit Goink?"
+1 404 925-9663 Home			  The gang: "Fine, just fine."
Xref: sparky rec.video.production:1115 rec.video:9454
From: emarsh@hernes-sun.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric Marsh)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production,rec.video
Subject: Next Canon L1 question: jell pack batterys
Date: 23 Jul 1992 00:37:00 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: hernes-sun

Thanks to everyone for information on the L1. It looks like I will
get one. So far, the best price I have found is $1865. When I was
talking to the vendor, I got into the subject of batteries. Seems that
the only battery available is a one hour battery and will cost me about
$80. However this fellow said that a 6 hour jell pack battery will only
cost me $200. He made it sound like a pretty good way to go. Anyone
else have any comments on these batterys?

Thanks,

Eric
--
*  Eric Marsh   ---   email: emarsh@sun.com / standard disclaimers apply  *
*  DoD # 1332                                    dragbike pilot for hire  *
*  986cc Ninja street scooter       ----         GS1260 Suzuki drag bike  *
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: pmtech@netcom.com (Peter R. Challinger)
Subject: Re: Grass Valley DDR-4400 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 06:52:51 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

The GVG DDR4400 uses a RAID style approach to recording real time digital
video on disks.  There are some trade offs, good and bad, in this approach.
Amongst the good are that long record times are fairly easy.  On the other
hand the basic cost of the unit becomes much higher which makes this approach
too expensive for short record times which are more typical in recording
animations.

The unit was shown as a technology demo a couple of times last year and then
in a suite at NAB and finally on the GVG booth at IBC in Amsterdam.  At IBC
the unit was being demoed but still seemed a long way from a deliverable 
product.  General comments from customers visiting were not to expect to see
any shipments before next year.

The questions:
1. Price:  A starting price of 90-100K seemed to be the consensus from those
customers I talked to at the show.  This is fairly good on a per minute basis
for seven minutes of component digital recording but still a large investment.

2. Ethernet transfers:  The product is supposed to be able to do this at some
point but so far I've not talked to any customers who've seen it operating.
I would expect them to support similar protocols to the A60 and A66 but have
not heard anything definite yet.


For anyone out there looking at going in the other direction (i.e. shorter
record times, lower unit cost) you might want to check out the new Abekas
A65 which is being launched this week at SIGGRAPH.  It's a shorter (25 secs)
version of the A66 but with built in SCSI/Ethernet and should sell for less
than 25K (3 to 5K more once you've bought a D to A to see what you're doing!)

Pete Challinger
Pacific Media Technologies, Santa Cruz

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

These comments represent my own opinions and not those of GVG (who I used to
work for) or Abekas, for whom I do consulting work.

Xref: sparky rec.video.production:1113 rec.video:9434
From: goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Goldberg)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production,rec.video
Subject: Who is going to Wedding Video Expo?
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:29:18 GMT
Reply-To: goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Goldberg)
Followup-To: rec.video.production
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center, Annapolis, MD

As some of you may know, the second annual Wedding Video Expo runs 26-28
July - that's next week.  I'd like to know who in netland is going.
Perhaps we could have an informal netters meeting in the bar!

(Respond by email, please.)

   /|/| /||)|/  /~ /\| |\|)[~|)/~   |   Everyone's entitled to MY opinion.
  / | |/ ||\|\  \_|\/|_|/|)[_|\\_|  |      goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil
========Imagination is more important than knowledge. - Albert Einstein=======
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: an314@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Timothy Golobic)
Subject: NBC and poor (?) signal
Reply-To: an314@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Timothy Golobic)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 01:05:08 GMT


i've been watching the Olympics a good part of the afternoon, and everything
looks normal to me.

if you're looking for reasons for degradation, think about the fact that
these are NOT live, one generation to tape, plus they are edited,
at least another generation to tape. plus, the events are beamed from actual
site to broadcast central, one up and down, plus another up and down,
to NBC in New York, plus another up and down to your local affiliates,
and then on top of all that, retransmission to either you directly,
or through your local cable company.

-- 
tgolobic@ucs.indiana.edu        Timothy Golobic             an314@po.cwru.edu
   Indiana University     "Keeper of the Beer Games"      The Cleveland Freenet

What the world needs now is another folk singer, like I need a whole in my head
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: buckland@ucs.ubc.ca (Tony Buckland)
Subject: Re: NBC To Use a New Technology at Summer Olympics
Organization: University of B.C. Computing Services
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 20:32:24 GMT

In article <ajfmx!_@lynx.unm.edu> rkennedy@triton.unm.edu (Ronald E. Kennedy) writes:
>NBC production will have the use of a number of new technologies 
>to aid its 161 hours of over-the-air coverage of the XXV Olympiad. ...

 This recalls a question that's been in my mind since the Winter
 Games.  There was lavish use of slowmo replays that seemed very
 smooth, as though _every_ event was recorded at several times
 the normal number of frames per second.  Is this done, and if so,
 is it normal practice for sporting events or is it rather a
 high-cost option practical only for such a major event as the
 Olympics (I don't watch sports regularly, so I don't know what
 slowmo looks like in football, etc)?

Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: boylan@IASTATE.EDU (Terran J Boylan)
Subject: Grass Valley DDR-4400 
Reply-To: boylan@IASTATE.EDU (Terran J Boylan)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 01:36:50 GMT

Hello Computer Animators/ Video Professionals:

We're a computer animation company, and in a couple of months we had
been planning on buying one of the new Abekas A-66 digital disk recorders.
This unit offers 50 seconds of D-1 (720 X 486 YUV) video for about $40K
(including D/A converter and Ethernet options).

However, something came across my desk yesterday that may change that plan.

Has anybody out there got any info on Grass Valley's new DDR-4400?
We only have very sketchy info on this intriguing machine.  The basic unit
claims a storage capacity of 7 MINUTES of component video or
15 minutes of composite video.  In addition, it seems to support digital
audio, which would be very nice, although not our primary concern.  It's
primary use seems to be as a digital editing environment.
We do not have any pricing information on the DDR-4400.  For all I
know, they may cost $200,000.

Our Main Questions:
1) How much does the dang thing cost?
2) Is the Digital component file standard used the same as D-1 / 601 ?
3) How similar is the ethernet transfer compared to an Abekas A-60?
   (Is the unix rcp protocol handled the same?)

Please post any responses.  I'm sure the computer animation community
would be interested.

Thanks,

Terran J. Boylan
Sr Artist/Programmer
Engineering Animation, Inc.



Organization: Junior, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 20:08:23 -0400 
From: "Brian J. Papa" <bp12+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Books on Video  tech.


Are there any good books on the basics of high-tech video?  I am looking
for multi-camera, time-code, genlock syncing, video distribution, basic
lighting, post-production or any technical information.  

There is a book by Yamaha called the "Sound reinforcement handbook",
which is the kind of thing that I am looking for, only in video.

Please respond to me since I don't make it over to this group too often.
I will summarize if the responses warrant.

Thanks, 
-Brian

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian J. Papa                        Firefighter
bp12@andrew.cmu.edu                  Swarthmore Fire & Protective Assoc. 
MechE - Class of '93                 Swarthmore, Delaware County, Pa  
Activities Board Chair
Carnegie Mellon University
From: chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com (Chris Christensen)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Re: Grass Valley DDR-4400
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:07:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: gold.4931
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

Hi Peter!

I have forwarded your comments to Ron Naumann (PMM).

I will post his response!
-- 
Chris Christensen                  The opinions I express are my own,
chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com            and sometimes they are wrong!
916-478-3419 FAX 916-478-3887      After all, I *AM* only human.
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: kdawson@AFIT.AF.MIL (KEVIN D. DAWSON)
Subject: Toaster Mail List
Summary: Still there?
Keywords: Toaster, mail list
Organization: Air Force Institute of Technology, WPAFB OH
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:16:38 GMT

Hello All,
      Ever since my mail server changed hands (?) I received no mailings.
     Is the list still in existance ? Low  (read none) messages posted 
     perhaps ?   Could it be my new address kdawson@afit.dev.nul ;) ?
     
      Could some one post and E-mail me, just to let me know I still exist?
      
Kevin Dawson
      Net access was the only good thing about working here.
From: brown@vidiot.UUCP (Vidiot)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Re: Compression artifacts in NBC Olympic coverage
Keywords: Standards Conversion, Olympics
Date: 30 Jul 92 05:02:22 GMT
Reply-To: brown@vidiot.UUCP (Vidiot)
Organization: Vidiot's Hangout

In article <1992Jul29.013955.13742@tvnews.tv.tek.com> dmc@tv.tv.tek.com writes:
<We've been monitoring the Olympic feeds here in our lab, and
<the artifacts being discussed are the results of PAL->NTSC
<standards conversion.  The cameras at many venues are indeed
<using fast shutter speeds, but that only reduces the amount
<of blurring in each individual field of video.  We have seen
<two kinds of standards conversion algorithms, the expensive
<and the inexpensive.

Vindicated, I've been vindicated :-)

Thanks for the great article on what has been happening.  Have you guys thought
about calling NBC in New York and getting them to turn off the Motion
Compensation piece of equipment and just running with the standard 4-field
converter?  If you've seen one of my previous postings, the one type of unit
they are using is actually a two-piece converter.  By removing the Motion
Compensator portion, we can go back to the conversions we are used to, without
any of these false video images.

Obviously if I called, not knowing who I am, they are not going to pay any
attention to my complaints about the video quality.  Now, a call from the
television division of Tektronix would be a different story.  Someone in NBC
engineering just might pay attention to viewer complaints.
-- 
      harvard\     att!nicmad\          spool.cs.wisc.edu!astroatc!vidiot!brown
Vidiot  ucbvax!uwvax..........!astroatc!vidiot!brown
      rutgers/            INTERNET:vidiot!brown%astroatc.UUCP@spool.cs.wisc.edu
                                   brown@wi.extrel.com
From: geoff@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Geoff Caras)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Re: Desktop Video for Mac
Summary: Amilink
Date: 21 Jul 92 20:06:12 GMT

Amilink makes a special version I think its called Amilink-CI for the
Panasonic AG-1960's. Its under $1000 if I remember correctly. The Amilink
that uses VLAN is >5K$.

Geoff...


igneous@netcom.com         voice - 408.475.8194              FAX - 408.475.8193
The Igneous Group          Software Project Management   Design   Documentation
                           1744 Foster Court     Santa Cruz, CA      95062-1741
Organization: Junior, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 20:29:13 -0400 
From: "Brian J. Papa" <bp12+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: NBC and poor (?) signal
	<22935@oasys.dt.navy.mil>

On 29-Jul-92 in Re: NBC and poor (?) signal  
user Mark Goldberg@oasys.dt.n writes:
>NBC is using Panasonic composite digital equipment (D-3) for production
>of the coverage.  There is negligible gnerational loss in  editing with
>digital video.  However, I too have noticed the strange appearances
>- looks like stobing, fast-forward, or someothing unatural.  There are
>other postings that bring up the possibility of compression loss.  Even
>if a clean edit master is produced, there certainly is degradatioin

I noticed this also.  I thought that it was particularly bad in the US
Womens floor excercises Team competetion on Monday or Tuesday night.  It
was very noticable on the floor level shots of the whole gymnastics
competetion.  I haven't noticed it at all on any of the diving or
swimming event.

It almost seems like there are frames missing.

-Brian
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: dpbsmith@world.std.com (Daniel P. B. Smith)
Subject: Help me estimate Triplecast coverage of "niche" sports
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 11:53:27 GMT

Triplecast subscribers: help me with a research project.
To keep the results unbiassed I don't want to state my 
exact purpose yet, but I would like to have
some reports on the Triplecast coverage of "niche" events.

Please, let me know ROUGHLY how many hours of Triplecast coverage
you've watched, and an indication of what YOU'VE HAPPENED TO SEE
of the "niche" events.  If you've seen scores only, say "scores
only." If you've seen short clips of a minute or less, say "short
clips." Try to estimate HOW MANY TIMES you've seen the event and,
if possible, HOW MANY MINUTES OR HOURS. 

Send me email and I'll summarize to the net.

These are what I am describing as "niche" events. (Not all of them
have taken place yet).

Archery, Badminton, Canoeing, Cycling, Fencing, Field Hockey,
Judy, Modern Pentathlon, Pelota, Roller Hockey, Rowing, Shooting,
Soccer, Synchronized Swimming, Table Tennis, Taekwondo, 
Team Handball, Weightlifting.

Thank you very much
--Daniel P. B. Smith
dpbsmith@world.std.com