HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kasprj@operators.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re: LP convention 1991(was Re: SF fans show libertarian inclination)
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 13:42:36 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.174216.1@fnalf.fnal.gov>, higgins@fnalf.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes:
|> 
|> In planning for the Worldcon in Chicago in 1991 (where Jim Mann,
|> incidentally, performed reasonably heroic services on fandom's behalf)
|> I learned that the Libertarian Party was holding its national
|> convention the very same week in the very same town!
|> 
|> Then I learned that this was not done by accident.
 
 Given that, I'm kind of surprised that Marrou didn't make a campaign
speech in Orlando back in September.

|> In my opinion, a political party that schedules its national
|> convention so delegates can conveniently attend the World Science
|> Fiction Convention is not yet ready to be taken seriously on the
|> American scene.  (-:

 Heh, maybe it means that America isn't ready for _them_.

|> > I always thought
|> > talking to libertarians at SF convenetions was a good way to
|> > cure someone of libertarian tendencies.
|> 
|> Hey, it worked for me.
 
 It took a bit more than that in my case, but I can see your point.
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *|          he who refuses to do nonsense  
     \_|          is doomed to talk arithmetic.
      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: SF fans show libertarian inclination
Date: 4 Jan 93 15:56:39 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: gondolin.pubs.stratus.com

In article <725750803snz@keris.demon.co.uk> chris@keris.demon.co.uk  
(Chris Croughton) writes:
> For a start, any Heinlein fan (i.e. one who *agrees* with him) is  
going
> to have a lot in common with libertarians.  Ditto anyone who agrees  
with
> Leslie Fish (well, she's nearer anarchist, but it's similar).

I disagree. I'm a Heinlein fan in the sense that I like a lot
of what he has written. That doesn't mean I agree with him.

> Also, fandom in general tends to be a "live and let live" society -
> possibly because most of us are aware that by mundane standards  
we're
> non-normal, and we'd *better* be tolerant of each other or we won't  
have
> *anyone* who accepts us.  There are, of course, exceptions...
> 

But of course live and let live is not all there is to 
libertarianism. If that's all it was, a lot more of us would
probably fall into the category.  Too much of libertarianism
is also "if they can't work, let them starve, but don't make
me spend my tax money on them."  

--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
From: insinga@tle.enet.DEC.COM (Aron Insinga ZK2-1/Q18 1N24 dtn 381-1928  04-Jan-1993 1357)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: Arisia vs. Boskone
Date: 4 Jan 93 19:44:07 GMT

I certainly agree that Boskone and Arisia are not the only cons in the area and
that the more smaller, different cons there are here, the better.  (Running a
"winter Worldcon" [sic] every year can be tough on anyone!)  But I do wish that
Arisia had picked a different date, so that anyone interested in attending both
Boskone and Arisia would have a better chance of doing so.

ratinox@iota.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri) writes:
>> Boskone was neither the first nor the last con to melt-down (often due to
>> growing too large).
>
>One of the reasons (maybe the primary reason) that Arisia has a membership
>limit of 1500-2000.

So one difference is that Boskone now limits size by self-selecting to those
fans interested in the program, art show, and special events (limiting the
number of areas so that it can do better in each of them) and those fans willing
to come to a non-urban location; Arisia limits size by first come, first serve
(having everything possible at the con, but spreading efforts more thinly).
[Didn't this thread start out with someone asking what the differences were?]

As the saying goes, "Be careful who you pick for your enemies, for you will
become like them."  Arisia started out ranting about Boskone not allowing ray
guns to be carried around, but then adopted a similar weapons policy to
Boskone's.  Both cons are in the same real world and are dealing with the same
set of state laws and mundane hotel businesses; this will force them to adopt
some of the same solutions to some of the same problems.  Likewise, the serving
of alcohol in con suites in the US has been affected (if not eradicated) over
the past couple of decades.

As for the relative merits of non-mail-in art vs. mail-in art, non-mail-in art
has the big advantage that there are more artists at the con who can appear on
the program, do demos, and talk shop.

- Aron Insinga
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
From: john@liebnitz.ssd.kodak.com (John Hall)
Subject: Re: Boskone
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 13:33:13 GMT

In article <C0JJtn.E2D@knot.ccs.queensu.ca> polowin@chem.queensu.ca (Joel Polowin) writes:
>
>For the sarcasm-impaired, that's exactly what I was implying.

Oops.  Sorry about the lecture, then.  I should have re-read your post
before I replied.  

Hmm.  Maybe it's true.  Maybe security types *are* humor-challenged :-)

John Hall
Dorsai Irregulars


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Hall, Engineering Services, EASTMAN KODAK CO., Rochester NY
716 253 7446   john@kodak.COM
From: ig25@fg70.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (Thomas Koenig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: THE GRIPPING HAND by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle
Date: 7 Jan 1993 09:37:06 GMT
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, Germany
Reply-To: ig25@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de
NNTP-Posting-Host: fg70.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de

In article <WEX.93Jan6123412@media-lab.media.mit.edu> ecl@mtgzy.att.com (Evelyn C Leeper +1 908 957 2070) writes:
[about THE GRIPPING HAND by Niven & Pournelle]

>Niven and Pournelle seem to think it [the future] would be like the
>1950s with spaceships.  Except for the politics, which are from the
>1980s--the Arab Liberation Organization (ALO) and bomb- throwings on New
>Ireland.

Except, I assume, for feudalism, which is a pet idea of Pournelle's
which I find rather nonsensical.

Oh well... guess I'll read it anyway, and try to tune out that stuff...
-- 
Thomas Koenig, ig25@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de, ig25@dkauni2.bitnet
The joy of engineering is to find a straight line on a double logarithmic
diagram.
From: phydeaux@guru.med.cornell.edu (Dave Weingart)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: Boskone
Date: 11 Jan 1993 21:09:39 GMT
Organization: CUMC
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: guru.med.cornell.edu

In article <C0IAo3.Fy@knot.ccs.queensu.ca>, polowin@chem.queensu.ca (Joel Polowin) writes:
|> If it CAN be used as a weapon, it IS a weapon.  Any and all objects which
|> can be used to harm someone in any way must be left in the room.

Hmmm...does this count my guitar and amp on the way to the filk?
Do I need to peacebond my whammy bar?  B{)

-- 
73 de David Weingart  KB2CWF    In the event I am captured or killed, the
phydeaux@cumc.cornell.edu       Cornell University Medical College and the
phydeaux@guru.med.cornell.edu   Department of Academic Computing will disavow
phydeaux@src4src.linet.org      any knowledge of my opinions.
From: stoddard@milori.ccit.arizona.edu (MJ STODDARD)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: Oathblinded by Mercedes Lackey?
Date: 7 Jan 93 15:41:00 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1993Jan6.232849.21438@netcom.com>, dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
..deleted quote ...
> 
>Well, that war ended with Urtho's final strike and Falconsbane's
>temporary demise, so we can make some shrewd guesses. :-)
> 
One the other hand, was the Urtho-Falconsbane action Hiroshima or
just the bombing of London?  (do I have my good guys mixed up here a
little?)  Anyway, the sentient sword's story shows that many other
personalities may have been involved -- that it wasn't a mere local
spat in the Pelagirs (I think, maybe).

MJS
From: phillies@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (George D. Phillies)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Lengths of novels
Date: 11 Jan 1993 21:32:07 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigwpi.wpi.edu

Question:  What has been happening to lengths of published
novels in the last decade?  I have had severla people blandly
assert that lengths have not changed since ERB's time, so
that 80 +/- kilowords is a novel and 250-300 kilowords is 
that unholy of unholies, a trilogy.  I have been able to refute
these people by grabbing, e.g. Scott and Barnett's The Armor
of Light (a truly fine work), which is in the 250-300 kiloword
range, all by itself.  Melanie Rawn's Dragonfire series appears
to fit the same estimate.  Does anyone have more systematic
counts?  I really do not feel like sitting and counting
large numbers of works other than my own (I have a novel that's 
up to about 120 kilowords, and perhaps half-done; I've previously
posted sections to rec.arts.comics).

George Phillies
phillies@wpi.wpi.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
From: jdnicoll@prism.ccs.uwo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)
Subject: Re: putrid weapons policy ( was:  Re: Boskone )
Organization: University of Western Ontario, London
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:48:23 GMT
Keywords: You can have my stave when you pry it from my cold dead hand!

In article <1993Jan8.041605.12398@csus.edu> gharlane@nextnet.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) writes:
>Joel Polowin commented:

	On Boskone's  weapon  policy

>> If it CAN be used as a weapon, it IS a weapon.  Any and all objects
>> which can be used to harm someone in any way must be left in the room.
>> 
	Commentary  demonstrating  Polowin's first sentence deleted

	Other  stuff deleted

>> How could this be boring?  The only problem would be keeping the 
>> vice squad off your butts...  :-)
>
>Trust a Canuck to go along with idiotic weapons-control policies, and
>then do an auto-default to sex-crime concepts.  I decline to consider 
>why Joel feels that our collective (or singular!) butts might constitute
>a danger to society, even in the eyes of the local P.D. 

 	This  is Garlane of  Eddore,  January's  Poster-child  for  the
Humour-Challenged Persons of America. Please give  generously, and
someday even  little Garlane will recognise  sarcasm. Humour Deficit
syndrome can  be beaten!

>----There are some things I honestly feel I Was Not Meant To Know.

	And you demonstrate that  *so* well.

							James Nicoll

From: Joel.Rosenberg@f0.n944.z0.tdkt.kksys.com (Joel Rosenberg)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Sf Fans Show Libertarian Inclination
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1993 08:41:48 -0600

In a message to All <04 Jan 93 13:41> Laurie Mann writes in and says:


 LM> I don't have statistics either.  My take is that most fans don't
 LM> like and don't 
 LM> have guns.  The general perception of the libertarian,
 LM> particularly if you read 
 LM> USENET, is that gun ownership is a
 LM> religious point among libertarians, and 
 LM> those of us who believe in reasonable gun
 LM> control are "anti-libertarian."  

Just to further complicate the matter, there are those of us out 
here who would support reasonable (let's not get into what 
reasonable means here) gun control as an end, not as a step 
toward confiscation, have guns (Felicia or I can reach up and 
grab a her .357 out of the gun box without getting out of bed), 
and are not libertarians at all.
From: L697187@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Next Star Wars Movie?
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 09:58:45 PST

Does anyone really know when or if there are supposed to be any more
Star Wars movies?  I have been hearing about the 'prequels' for years.
Where are they?  I don't want to watch Star Trek for the rest of my
life.

     \    /\
      \  /__\
Scott  \/an  \rtsdalen
PP-ASEL
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: "robert winkler" <robert.winkler@canrem.com>
Subject: space rangers
Reply-To: "robert winkler" <robert.winkler@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 4 Jan 93 01:47:05 EST

Hi Robert!

You're right. However, you should've noticed two things: ad 1) my
message was a collection of assumptions & opinions, not facts, as I
indicated, and ad 2) I drew those assumptions from the short scenes
showing the actors & actresses reacting not too well to certain
situations.

Having said that, I still have to correct myself. First, there's really
no way knowing from that short trailer that those actors are bad or
good. Many well known actors, such as a certain Schwarzenegger (G_d
forgive my daring words...) are nothing more than well dressed puppets.
Second, in fact the heroine of the whole show (I've just read it in the
TV Guide) is the Oscar winning Linda Hunt, & I certainly LOVE her -
she's just damn good (the dwarf from "The Year of Living Dangerously").

Take care

Robert
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: ror1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Richard O. Rouse III)
Subject: Movie Still/Posters/Whatever FTP sites?
Reply-To: ror1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 23:51:37 GMT



Is there a good FTP site for science fiction movie GIFs?  
What about movies in general?

Thanx in advance.

-- 
===========================================================================
Richard O. Rouse III				 Reviewer:  MacGames Digest
ror1@ellis.uchicago.edu		    Publisher/Creator: ATOMIC SEWAGE COMICS
       "Next thing you know they'll take my thoughts away" - Megadeth
From: marshal@maico.ksu.ksu.edu (Timothy Pat Marshall)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Buckaroo Bonzai
Date: 6 Jan 1993 13:28:51 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: maico.ksu.ksu.edu
Summary: How many B.B. Movies?
Keywords: Buckaroo

Sorry if I'm spelling the name wrong.  Does anyone know if there are
more than 1 Buckaroo movie?  I've been told there are several but
I can only find 1.  Thanks.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: "robert winkler" <robert.winkler@canrem.com>
Subject: space rangers
Reply-To: "robert winkler" <robert.winkler@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 4 Jan 93 01:54:17 EST

Hi Peter!

Thanks for the info! I did know about Babylon and DS9 and Timetrax, but
not about the rest.
As for Space Rangers not being a "local cheapy" - c'me on! By describing
the TV station I simply wanted to allude to the general quality of shows
they can afford to buy & show. Why do you have to be so sensitive? I
just wanted to give my first impressions - now I've got a hell back onto
my neck... (g)

Take care

Robert
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: mcsweinberg@memstvx1.memst.edu (*R*A*I*)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Terminator 3: Plot...
Date: 6 Jan 93 23:52:16 -0600
Distribution: world
Organization: Memphis State University

In article <1993Jan6.180254.1@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu>, bole@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu (Greg Bole) writes:
> In article <93006.38672.L660315@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM>, 
> L660315@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
> 
>> About eight months ago someone posted a copy of a news article dated April
>> '93 headlined "Cameron, Carolco, Swartzenegger say, 'He'll be back one more
>> time,'" or something like that.  In short, the article was about a press
>> conference called by the trio to announce Terminator-3.  Does anyone know if
>> this is on the level, and if it is has anyone heard anything else?  
> 
> It was a joke cooked up by a juvenile Yahoo at The University of Virgina.
> 
>> But now I'm starting to wonder if that posting was bogus.  I hope not.
> 
> Sorry, it was.
> 
> Cameron's mantra all through making T2 was "T3 without me".
> 
> Of course if they offer the other players enough money it might happen
> someday.  I (as many have expressed) would *love* to see a T0...as in
> a movie about the war in the future with sky-net.  (T0 because it would 
> hopefully be before sky-net was prevented from coming into existance)
> 
> Greg Bole                            "We ride...to hell.  Or to glory.  
> bole@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu         It depends on your point of view."
>                                 Errol Flynn in _They Died With Their Boots On_
-- 
My mother and I were discussing the other day possible storylines for a T3 we
came up with 2 possibilites that might work. (note we're not saying we think
they'll make one we were just bored) Theory 1) Someone finds out the story..
perhaps they final arrest Sarah Conner and goes back in time to before the
t1000 is destroyed and prevents the destruction of the chip from the first
Terminator maybe switching it with a fake or something.
2) Skynet is constructed still just 20 years later... A grown Conner tries to
stop skynet once it's in control like the original story he's still this great
leader and faces many Terminators.

I know I'm warped.
Rai.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"...But if you insist babe the challenge               R A I
delights me the more you resist babe the           Raina Weinberg
more it excites me and no one I've kissed      Memphis State University
baby, ever fights me again...I'm going to         Memphis, TN USA
love you like nothing you've known...."
_Madonna_ from _Dick Tracy_                MCSWEINBERG@MSUVX1.MEMST.EDU
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bongo@DIALix.oz.au (John Bongiovanni)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: THE QUIET EARTH
Date: 5 Jan 1993 16:36:08 +0800
Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.dialix.oz.au
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 #1

I just figured that he had jumped to a whole different level of reality,
with no relation to the earth or real space at all. Like he said, with
the charge of the electron jumping around the way it was, the whole of
reality was going to be torn apart.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: rjg@doe.carleton.ca (Richard Griffith)
Subject: Re: THE QUIET EARTH
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:02:29 GMT

In <disaacs.726262188@cunews> disaacs@pietrzak.carleton.ca (Dave Isaacs) writes:
>In <1993Jan4.231333.18629@midway.uchicago.edu> ror1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Richard O. Rouse III) writes:
>>Has any one out there seen the New Zeland film "The Quiet Earth" circa 1985?
>>It is aboslutely not only one of my favorite sf films, but also one of my 
>>favorite films all around.  But the ending is a little vague, so I was
>>wondering other people's thoughts on it.

>One should remember that the reason Zac survived in the first case was because
>he was trying to kill himself when the first "effect" occurred.  His sacrafice
>was just finishing that job once and for all (and maybe doing some good in the
>process).

When the effect occurs only those dying at the time are moved into the new
reality. Who knows what happens to everyone else, they may continue to live
without noticing any difference at all. In the end Zac dies and the effect
occurs again on a larger scale. Zac and I presume anyone else dying at the
time, are projected into the new reality. The effect was larger this time and
the new reality is a radical departure from its predecessor. 

I saw this as a character movie that looked at the way humans interact and
show respect for the results of their actions on others.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: tom@europa.lonestar.org (Tom Kimball)
Subject: Re: Planet of the Apes
Organization: Moria Mining Guild (BBS) -- Dallas, Texas, USA
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 15:58:31 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.010828.1@vax1.umkc.edu> kgassner@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
>> In Planet of the Apes... we are to believe that the Humans started a Nuclear
>> War and after they destroyed each other the Apes evolved. But, In Escape from
>> the Planet of the Apes, Zera tells that the apes just revolted while they were
>> being treated as pets after the cats and dogs died. What happened to the4
>> Nuclear War?
>
>Probally just a little change in the universe on the part of some author in 
>order to find room for another sequel :-)
>But as far as I remember, the "Planet of the Apes" storyline isn't consistent
>anyway.

I have found it to be entirely consistant.  It is explained in Conquest OPOTA
and Battle FTPOTA.  The nuclear war weakened the humans enough so that the
Ape rebellion could actually succeed.  Also, Cornelius and Zira didn't know
as much about prehistory in Planet OTA as they did in Escape FTPOTA.

-- 
Tom Kimball  			tom@europa.lerctr.org    
tom@europa.lonestar.org		tom%europa@egsner.cirr.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: mcduffeek@woods.ulowell.edu
Subject: Aliens vs. Predators news...
Organization: University of Lowell
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 03:28:35 GMT

(previously posted on alt.horror):

From WIZARD #16 magazine:

"Alien's vs. Predator will be battling its way into your theatre screens
sometime in 1994, if all goes planned.  With an inital budget of $30 million,
the film will be co-produced by Dark Horse Entertainment, Largo Pictures, and
Twentieth Century Fox.  A script is now being readied..."

This article was in the December issue of the magazine.  Since then I have
seen the January issue, but since I don't have it here, I can't quote it.
But, I can tell you that it is definitely on the go and will be ready early
1994 (maybe even Christmas).  It will be titled Aliens vs. Predators: The Hunt.
I'll let you know more as I hear it, but I haven't been on this group in a
while, so I don't know if you've heard this yet or not...

-- 
  =====             Keith "Overtime" McDuffee            PHI KAPPA SIGMA
    |                                                International Fraternity
  =====                                                Gamma Upsilon Chapter
    |                  InterNet Mail I.D.                U.Mass. at Lowell
  ===                  ------------------                  P.O.  Box 113
                   mcduffeek@woods.ulowell.edu              Dracut,  MA
                             - or -                            01826
                    kmcduffee@cs.ulowell.edu                    USA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: S104374@UMRVMA.umr.edu
Subject: Enough!!!
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 21:37:41 GMT
Organization: Univ of MO - Rolla

Enough of the Origins of Terminator debate.  Truth be known, very few,
if any, stories are entirely original.  Cameron certainly borrowed from
another source, if only subconciously, but only he knows which ones (if
even he does).  For instance, remove the time travel and cybernetic
aspectsfrom Terminator and it startsto resemble The Guantlet (Clint
Eastwood, definately not scifi) or every otherepisode of McGyver.
Originality is a virtue that died long before modern literature or
motion pictures.

-=Road Warrior=-
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.movies:9728 alt.cult-movies:11671