HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Perot Halts Engagement
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 21:44:14 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.203331.2290@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>In article <92285.1307582893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> 2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (corrigible) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct5.124812.15752@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com
>>(samuel.saal) says:
>>>In article <1992Oct4.224749.17906@news.ysu.edu> aa324@yfn.ysu.edu
>>>(Marlene Miller) writes:

>>>>There was a discussion at our Sunday morning minyan that H. Ross Perot's
>>>>daughter was dating a guy. H. Ross found out he's Jewish.. and put a stop
>>>>to it before it got 'serious'.

>>>_IF_ this is true, is it a positive comment about Perot?  I'd say so.
>>>After all, protecting individual traditions, and helping prevent an
>>>intermarriage is positive as far as I'm concerned.

>>You can't possibly be as naive as you let on. If Perot called off a
>>relationship between his daughter and a Jew, it's not because of his respect
>>for the Jewish ban on intermarriage but because of anti-Semitism.

>You have a wonderful double-standard here.  If Judaism doesn't want to
>allow intermarriage, why is it wrong for a Christian to insist on his
>daughter marrying another Christian?

a) Because Christianity has no such standards, per se.

b) Who says that the young man she marries *should* be a Christian?
After all, many Gentiles are not Christians...does Perot insist on
a Christian son-in-law, or merely a Gentile?

>Perhaps we should all try and find out his real reason.  First of all,
>I have no idea if this rumor is true, and I don't think anyone else
>here has any facts on the matter.  Second of all, it doesn't
>necessarilly mean anything anti-semetic.  I know of plenty of Catholic
>families that would rather die than see their children marry
>non-Catholics, etc.  I don't consider that to be anti-semetic, and
>neither should you.

True enough, but how many of them hire private detectives to interfere?

I might also add that the whole panic about the survival of Judaism
seems ludicrous to me.  Forcing people to be Jewish is not a good
idea; that's how you make anti-Semites real quick.  My mother-in-law
gave up Judaism and married a (lapsed) Lutheran; but her daughter,
whom I married, is Jewish and says so and acts so.

>Let's not start badmouthing people without any facts, OK?

Roger
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk (Stephen Phillips)
Subject: RE: Shul name
Cc: stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk
Reply-To: stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:38:50 +0000


> +From         : CARIAN@auvm.american.edu
> +Subject      : RE: Shul name
> 
> Let's not forget the St. John's Wood Synagogue in London.
> 
> Rabbi Charles Arian
> CARIAN@american.edu

When the Emeritus Chief Rabbi of Great Britain, Rabbi Immanuel
Jakobovits, was enobled to the House of Lords he took on the title of
"Lord Jakobovits of St. John's Wood".


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stephen (Yisroel) Phillips      Tel: 44-895-442141
Burch Phillips & Co.            Fax: 44-895-421231
63a Station Road
West Drayton
Middlesex
UB7 7LR
United Kingdom                  stephenp@compulink.co.uk

********************************************************************************
**************** A G'MAR VECHASIMAH TOVAH TO ONE AND ALL ***********************
********************************************************************************

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: a lulav in the eye
Keywords: poke march
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 13:22:58 GMT

In article <4283@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
>In article <1992Oct14.122321.27865@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
>saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>
>>On Monday during davening, while marching with the lulav
>> at the end of Musaf, someone got poked in the eye.
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Yup.  Got one hell of a ho-shiner.
>
>
>Should you follow the Hasidic Minhag , you will be saved of such
>a trubble!
>.
>The Hasidic Minhag is not to march with the lulav  after musaf  !!!!
>
>( But after the Hallel , Before Tora reading and hence much BEFORE
>musaf ).

This hasidic minhag of Hoshanot after Hallel was adopted in our
shul because the place is packed with hundreds of men with lulavim,
and there was a general balagan as we all pushed one another aside to
reach lulavim, etc.  Much more civilized this way.  (Who ever thought
that a hassidic minhag could be dignified?)

Moadim l'simcha.


-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: *Jesus of Nazareth*
Date: 11 Oct 92 08:19:45 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <1992Oct6.203345.23169@cmcl2.nyu.edu> memco@cns.nyu.edu
writes:

>       I've been wondering what the specific Jewish
>theological reaction to several components of Christian
>theology are.

Christianity considered to be an idolworship. As to details
of components of each of the many different christian churches,
They are ignored unless one has some practical problems with them.
Christians do think their religion is some who connected to the Tora.
For Jews christian theology has the same importance as the mormons
theology to a Copts at Egypt.

>1)     ....

> Humans were strictly forbidden as sacrificial objects.

Correct.
It is clear too, from the case of Abraham.
If humman  sacrifice were wellcomed , like in the molek worship then
The testing Avraham by asking him to sacrify Isac should be an un
valid test. Avram should be happy to realise that G od likes his son,
and wants him.

> Christians, along with conveying deityship on Jesus,
>also describe him as fully human. If, as they say, he was killed
>to "wash away the sins of mankind", wouldn't this fall into
>the category of human sacrifice?

Yes.

>2)     There has also been some suggestion that Jesus went
>willingly (to some extent) to the cross specifically to
>"wash away" said sins. Wouldn't this be considered suicide?

Since the hole concept is wrong , going willingly to a cross is
 considered suicide. If on the other hand jesus assumed that if he
will not go then the Romans will hung some other persons instead, then
I thing that even he was not supposed to do that he is not considered
as one who suicide.

NOTE: It is interesting that christians selected that cruel murdering
      instrument - the cross - to be their symbol, and they even
      worship that bizaare instrument.


>3)     Finally, when Christians consume the host and drink the
>sacremental wine, at the moment they enter the mouth, they are
>supposedly transformed into the actual body and blood of Jesus
>respectively. Isn't this cannibalism?

Since it is not transformed it is not canibalism.

Whoever , this paganic action is definitely an idolworship.
They considered the wine and cake to  be part of jesus and hence
according to their belief a part of god. The status of the wine and
the cake in their mouth is exactly that of a wood after it was turned
to an idol. Chewing and swolowing that sod is their way of
worshiping it.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,rec.folk-dancing,rec.arts.theatre,rec.music.classical
From: lms@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Max Stern 310-524-6152)
Subject: Bye for now
Organization: NCR (Torrey Pines Development Center)
Disclaimer: This posting does not neccessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 01:24:10 GMT


I am signing off of these groups, probably for several months.  It's
been fun chatting with you all.

Why am I signing off?  Two reasons:  (1) I am breaking an addiction
(:-(); (2) I am going to be super-busy for a while.

If you should want to contact me, I am still reading my email (:-)).
See address below.
-- 

 |\/|  /_\  \/
 |  | /   \ /\                      Max.Stern@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: * jesus not a christ *
Date: 8 Oct 92 10:32:39 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL


On Fri, 2 Oct 1992 07:05:24 GMT, JHIATT@130.187.170.178
 JOHN HIATT asked our help to strength his healthy feeling that
 jesus is not a messaiah:
>   How does Jesus of Nazareth fail to be the messiah?

In: <9210021604.AA01212@hrt213.brooks.af.mil.brooks.af.mil>
    tjimghr@hrt213.brooks.af.mil  Tim Miller kindly helped John:

>       I think that dying without leaving a son behind kind of
>disqualifies him.  The Messiah will be, above all, a man-- with a wife
>and kids, too (sooner or later).

Now Michael Shimshoni send his comment.
In article <199210041330.AA01886@das.wang.com>
MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni) writes:


>These news must upset the Lubavicher  Hassidim, or do the believe that
>the Rebbe, even  living till he is  120 years old, is  going to repeat
>the trick of Avraham Avinu?
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Avraham Avinu made no tricks.
He got his son in the same way most of the married fathers get their
sons.

The person on the line was jesus not the Lubavicher and not Avraham.
If Michael had a need to mock making tricks in order to start a
pregnancy then he should use a pregnancy related to the case on the
line !
It is interesting to follow those Jews  their toleration works extra
fine with non jews only .

( Note an accurate computation of the Jewish 9 month of pregnacy gives
that it is 9 Gregorian monthes - 8 days, and since a healthy male baby
is circumcised when he is 8 days old the pregnancy starts 9 month
befor the circumcision date.
Jewish month      =  29 days + ( 12 + 793/1080 ) hours

Gregorian Month   =  ( 365 + 1/4 - 1/100 + 1/400 ) / 12    days.    )


Gmar tov    gideon


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: The Holocaust (was Please!  I need your help etc.)
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 13:20:35 GMT

Forgive me if I did not quote enough of Michael's pained article.  he
raises many interesting, thoughtful points, most of which certainly cannot
be answered with anything more than statements of belief.

In article <199210131411.AA25829@das.wang.com>
MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni) writes:

>there is no need  for long books to try and  save one's belief.  Those
>who cannot  live without the comfort  of believing in a  higher being,
>can keep him and his "mercy".

>Yes, the  Holocaust was for  me a "philosophical challenge"  and after
>facing  it there  were  no  longer any  "theological  issues" left  to
>consider.

Is there anything in which to believe?  If so, what?  If not, why live?
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout)
Subject: Re: * jesus ? *
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 01:16:00 GMT

In <92182@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>Bleh bleh bleh.

>I'm talking about the Jewish "universe", obviously.  Get lost.

And so once again, in inimitable and informative manner, 
Matthew Weiner wraps up his part of a interesting debate. 
Tune in to talk.origins for more of these original one liners.

(Moral:  If you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen.)
>-- 
>-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
--
Eli Chiprout
Dept. of Electronics
Carleton University	
emc@doe.carleton.ca
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: A relistic look at Arabian activity
Date: 13 Oct 92 11:23:32 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL


1.
Amazya ben-hayim is a member of Kibutz Yad Mordechay.
The kibutzweas based by Jews surviving the German death camps,
and named after MORDECHAY Anelewits the Warsaw geto uprising
commander.
Yad Mordechay is known for its herroic standing the heavy Egyptian
attacts during the Israeli independent war.
Amazya is a member of that kibutz , he is a  computers and mechanicks
expert .
On this Sunday noon he was at a green house in a nearby farm -
Ganey-Tal.
He repaired a computerized irrigation system.
There was an Arab worker in that green-house. he considered killing a
Jew to be a positive action, so he hit Amazia's head with a pick-axe.
A team of farmers of that farm headed by a nurse tried to save Amazya
but they failed. He is dead.

2.

   On this Sunday night 2 Arabs crossed the Jordan river ( that small
  river is not the misisipi ..)  not far to the north of Jerico, each
  of them carried a Koran , a long   knife  and a cocktail bottle.
  ) 4 years ago in that same place 4 Arabs through a cocktail-bottle
  in to a bus and turned Rachel Weiss and her 3 kids ( 6, 4 and 3
  monthes  to burned meat).
  Those 2 Arabs walked 150 meters on the Israeli soil before turning
  to dead bodies.
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: EGYPT: LET MY PEOPLE DIE - we hate Jews !
Date: 15 Oct 92 08:47:48 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In my article <4281@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
the key word reffused was missed, sorry. here is the corrected article:
             ^^^^^^^^
>About 1000 Egyptians died in the earthquack at Cairo and nearby
>cities, several thouthands are still buried under the ruins many of
>them still alive.
>The Egyptian army has no spectial tools for saving their still alive
>brothers, neither the knoledge who to do it.
>The  tractors and buldozers they are using kill a lot of those still
>alive under the ruined buildings.
>Israel has many well trained and equipped units for such jobs.
>Including units of trained dogs for discovering persons (dead and a
>live within the ruins ) .
>Those units saved many Russians in a similar case 2 years ago.
>
>Israel offer Egypt the help of those units.

>Mubarek the president of Egypt REFUSED allowing those Jewish saving
                                ^^^^^^^
                                ^^^^^^^
> groups stepping on the holly Egyptian soil.
>
>Egyptians continue to die.


Shalom   Gideon
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson)
Subject: Re: The name Yeishu (was Re: * Jesus *)
Keywords: Jesus
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 21:48:20 GMT

In article <4270@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
>naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>> The Yeishu in the Talmud is clearly intended to be one person and
>>Yeishu is certainly an ordinary name.
>> It is still used as a Hebrew name for Jewish children today.
>
>false
>
>> shortened from of Yeishua (meaning "salvation") which despite the
>> suspicious conotations is indeed a real name.
>
>False
>
>> There is one passage in the Talmud in which the full form Yeishua
>>is used for Yeishu ha-Notzri.
>
>False

is it just me, or does this sound like the US Vice-Presidential debate last
tuesday?


--
Rob Dobson              University of Virginia Music Library
"Anything that starts with Ellington ends with an assassination attempt
on the Fuhrer!" --SS-Sturmbannfuhrer Hans Reinhardt, July 1944
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: d89-mor@nada.kth.se (Monika Orski)
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism (Take 2)
Keywords: Invectives
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 05:15:50 GMT

In article <matthew.718513047@mugga>, matthew@stats.mu.oz.au (Maciek Blasikiewicz) writes:
|> d89-mor@nada.kth.se (Monika Orski) writes:
|> 
|> >Leaving the Big Issues - like who is an idiot and why doesn't everybody learn to
|> >read and how are palestinians treated in Poland - to those who have the time to
|> >deal whith them, I would like to know your opinions on a topic releated to this
|> >header :
|> 
|> >For many years, the word "jew" has been considered an invective in Poland. It also
|> >have in Russia and in many other counties. In most countries/languages (eg
|> >english, french and swedish) it is no longer considered an invective, as racist
|> >ideologies has been widely rejected. As far as I know, this has not happened in
|> >polish (despite the fact that there are very few jews left in Poland or maybe
|> >in connection whith this fact?).
|> 
|> >Is this part of a Polish anti-semitism? I think it is.
|> 
|> >	m
|> 
|> I think so too. But, Monika, do explain how "a Polish anti-semitism"
|> differs from other antisemitisms, since it apparently deserves a
|> special name to set it apart.
|> 
|> 
|> MB

"Anti-semitism in Poland" would probably be a better expression.
In every country where it is / has been widely spread, anti-semitism has a local
cultural and historical background. They all deserve special names when specifically
diskussed. Basically it's the same violent idiocy where ever it occurs.

	m
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: CPLS13@email.mot.com (Steven_Cohn)
Subject: Re: JEWISH HERITAGE MONTH paragraphs
Organization: Motorola_CoveragePLUS
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 13:24:13 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish

In article <1992Oct9.004449.1649@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>,
leeper@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (mark.r.leeper) wrote:
> 
> 
> 		JEWISH HERITAGE MONTH paragraphs
> 

Text deleted

What is, and who has declared "JEWISH HERITAGE MONTH"?

Steven Cohn
Motorola CoveragePLUS Engineering
CPLS13@EMAIL.MOT.COM
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rmt51@cas.org (Rick Turkel)
Subject: Re: Whence the minyan?
Reply-To: rmt51@cas.org
Organization: S.W.I.G.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 22:36:05 GMT

In article <Bvt8nt.CLq@acsu.buffalo.edu>, ptyaxel@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Seymour
Axelrod) writes:
|> What is the origin of the requirement for 10 men?  I recently told someone
|> who asked that it was post-biblical, but I am now not so sure.  In any case,
|> |> where is it written?  Thanks.
|> 
|> 
|> Seymour Axelrod, Psychiatry, State University of New York at Buffalo
|> PTYAXEL@UBVMS.BITNET                    PTYAXEL@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU

After the 12 spies returned from spying out Eretz Yisrael, only two (Joshua
and Nachshon) brought positive reports; the other 10 brought back a negative
one.  God then referred to the latter group with the word `eda (congregation,
assembly).  It was then taken as the minimum number for a congregation for
prayer.
-- 
Rick Turkel           (___  ____ _  _  _  _  _     _  ___   _  _ _  ___
(rmt51@cas.org)           )    |  |  \  )  |/ \     |    |   |  \_)    |
(rmt51@cas.bitnet)       /     | _| __)/   | __)    | ___|_  | _( \    |
			Ein navi be`iro.            |

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: mwertz1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Melanie Wertz)
Subject: Re: sexism
Organization: Swarthmore College
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 05:14:13 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.225947.27119@tc.cornell.edu>,
bai@msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu (Dov Bai-MSI Visitor) writes:
> 
> In article <XVRRBDYX@cc.swarthmore.edu> mwertz1@cc.swarthmore.edu
> (Melanie Wertz) writes:
> 
> [long disccusion as to why Judaism and Orthodoxy in particular are
>  sexist deleted for sake of brevity]
> 
> >There is no "rational" explanation as to why I feel sexism as defined by
> >Western culture is wrong.  There is no "rational" reason to believe the
> >Torah is true, either!
> 
> 
> Melanie,
> 
>    You are right in pointing out that there is no rational reason
>    to believe that the Torah is true. However, in this discussion
>    you are in no way better than the Orthodox people you care
>    to criticize so much: They operate on one set of feelings and
>    you on another. How do you expect this discussion to ever become
>    constructive ? It is likely to degenerate into no more of an
>    exchange of feelings between all sides ( including Conservatives
>    & Reforms ).
> 
> Dov
> 

I am posting this discussion here because many of the women who read
postings here have been brought up amidst the same Western values which I
was brought up with.  I am sure I am not the only one who is disturbed by
Jewish sexism.  I am sure there are women who want to believe in both an
egalitiarian philosophy and in traditional Judaism, and I want to start a
dialogue about how they are reconciling them.  If Judaism is going to
survive within Western culture, if it is going to be an ideology which
satisfies women and keeps them from assimilating, then it needs to address
these contradictions and attempt to resolve them in some way.  

If your essential point is that Judaism can have no place in the life of
someone who has been touched by Western feminism, then you are right-- my
posing is unconstructive.  But I think there are women out there who are
struggling to find a balance, and I want to hear what they have to say.

By the way, do you agree that Judaism is sexist?

Melanie
From: hrubin@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conservative Choirs
Date: 11 Oct 92 01:04:59 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <GRABINER.92Oct9151002@zariski.harvard.edu> grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner) writes:
>In article <1992Oct9.163727.5224@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, Stan Krieger writes:

			........................

>I had a similar reaction when my synagogue had a choir for the High
>Holidays a few years ago.  I didn't mind the choir singing the Piyyutim.
>But the choir also sang Kol Nidre and U-Netaneh Tokef to choral
>melodies.  These are prayers for the congregation to participate in, not
>hymns to be sung.  In particular, singing Kol Nidre as a hymn destroys
>its importance and historical significance.

I too have an objection to the choir doing too much.  One time a gentile
friend attended a service with me, and he was impressed by the congregational
singing, which he said was "everyone in a different key, and all off."

However, I have attended Kol Nidre services in several congregations, and
it was always done by the cantor or choir.  One time at a conservative
synagogue in San Francisco, the opera singer Jan Peerce (sp?) had the honor.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: Intermarriage
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 16:00:25 GMT

In <2AD1E105.6518@ics.uci.edu> mkrawitz@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Marc
Krawitz) writes:

[...]
>For those of you involved in interracial relationships, I salute
>your courage to stand up to the oppressive elements within the
>global Jewish community.

I am in an "interracial" marriage, but my wife is Jewish.

The prohibition against intermarriage has nothing to do with "race."

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish