HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Subject: Re: Followup on advice needed
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 03:13:08 GMT

In article <Bto1nt.Lys@comp.vuw.ac.nz> Gavin.Flower@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Gavin Flower) writes:
>The very fact that she invested time in talking to you, indicates that
>there is still a chance.  Take it slowly, and don't expect rapid
>changes for the better.

As I read it, she invested time in hope that Gavin would crawl on his
belly like the scum all men are....

Sorry, but I did _not_ read this as an "I'm still interested, but for
my own reasons I need to keep my distance."  If that were the case, she
would not have made a big deal of seeing the apology (asking about it,
asking him to slide it under the door, etc) but refusing to see _him_.


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov
From: sasnla@shadow.unx.sas.com (Nancy Agnew)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Shields UP, Mr. Worf!
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:34:45 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.
Originator: sasnla@shadow.unx.sas.com


In article <9208272331.AA05985@saturn.upl.com>, root@khijol.UUCP writes:
>
>I'm scared and I hurt and I hate women so much for manipulating me and
>hurting me and then laughing at me while I bleed.  I hate women with
>their smugness and "I can screw any man I want" attitudes and "you're not
>tall enough/rich enough/classy enough" bullshit.

Well, it sounds as though you haven't found out yet that we aren't
really *all* like that.  There certainly are enough models for that
scummy behavior you mention.  Behavior like that goes both ways between
the sexes, and for that matter in same sex relationships too.  Most of
us here have experienced it.  Yuck.

>People are selfish cold jerks who only care about themselves.  I think I'll
>retire from the human race.

Undeniably your prerogative to do so.  I happen to think that the
alternative of working through the fear and pain and hatred you 
feel will do so much for you that you could provide a different model
of behavior for the people around you.  Then maybe things could
improve in your local cohort of the human race.  There isn't an easy
way to get there, unfortunately.

Best of luck in deciding where you're going to go from here.  If
you choose to heal and work through your pain, I hope you find ASAR
to be a supportive place.
Nancy


-- 
Nancy Agnew                         sasnla@unx.sas.com
SAS Institute Inc,  SAS Campus Dr,  Cary NC 27513-2414
My company's opinions are not likely mine, and vice versa.
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: weaverli0469@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Affection
Date: 1 Sep 92 16:44:29 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

Hi all, I posted a while ago about how to "stay in my body" when things were
happening. I was assuming that things were going to happen. It's just a
natural response for me since the abuse. I'm going change that behavior and
reclaim my right to be a woman with feelings and emotions. I don't know about
the rest of you out there, but when I made love to a guy it was like I was
there to please him, or rather I had to please him. It's this old way of
thinking that gets in the way of me enjoying myself. I'm going to take things
nice and slow with my SO and enjoy the times that we spend together. I've
gotten to the point to where I can accept the affection and not take it as "yea
, I know what's going through your mind". Like I said before, I'm reclaiming my
right to be a woman not a sex toy anymore. I want to build up the intimacy
between us (emotional that is) so that we can enjoy eachother as a whole
person. You know everything about the person you're with . In the past I'd just
barly get to know the person and oops... things would happen. I think there's a
lot to be said about the in between stages. You build up the  trust and
intimacy and things will happen more nautrally. I won't feel like things are
being rushed. 

Anyway, thanks for the responses and for listening. E-Huge to all who need
them!

Peace :)
        -Shawna
From: tibbits@sisal.llnl.gov (Patrick Tibbits)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Group appropriate for nonsexual violent abuse recovery?
Date: 29 Aug 92 18:42:14 GMT
Organization: Unemployed (fired again)

No group like alt.bruised-spat-on-and-screamed-at has come to my attention.
Is this group appropriate for one who spent his early years in continual 
fear of physical violence and verbal abuse?




Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1160@twwells.com (poohbear)
Subject: tipping
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 06:12:26 GMT


back and forth and back and forth and back and forth and

i have no equilibrium

one extreme, another, another
nothing is ever real.  or i don't know what is.



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: kara@BORN.phys.virginia.edu (Kara Jayne Keeter)
Subject: for poohbear (2nd attempt to post)
Reply-To: kara@BORN.phys.virginia.edu (Kara Jayne Keeter)
Organization: Dept. of Physics, University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 00:05:14 GMT

Hi poohbear!

Please hang in there... you *are* going to make it!!!  You wanna know
how we know?  We know because we've been there... yes, each of us has
gone through various degrees of Bad Times (tm) but please believe me,
people have lived through Really Bad Times before and made it... and
you can too...  I hope it doesn't sound like I'm trivializing anybody's
experience, and I *know* it sometimes seems like you aren't gonna make
it... believe me, I *understand*... but you *can* make it, even if it
sometimes seems like you can't.  You are stronger than you realize.
and you have more people on your side than you realize.

Hey, how's this for an idea:  have you made a list of things to do in
an emergency?  Things maybe just to get you through the next 30 minutes?

Because, who knows, if you can get through the worst 30 minutes, maybe 
it will get easier...

Here's a "YARTL ("Yet Another Reason To Live") which I've been meaning to
post for a couple of weeks now:
	My life is not now as good as I would like it to be, but it
	is better now than it sometimes has been in the past, and it
	is not as good now as it is going to be in the future.

Poohbear, I don't know what goes through your mind, but based on my own
experiences I am guessing that maybe you think you are bad, or that you
want to just "let the pain out".  Well, you are *not* bad, no way!!!
If you can't believe it yourself, then for now just take my word for it.
Who knows how many people are out there hurting too, who are afraid to post,
but who are helped by your courage to post and reveal your struggles...
You are good, you are worthy of having a good life, and you are strong enough
to get through this...  If you just need to let the pain out, is there any 
other way you can do it?  Or at least just postpone it?  Remember, every day
gotten through is a victory... and another chance to see something beautiful
in the world...

I tried to send this on Sunday, but it didn't work.  :-(  I am posting this
instead of using anon-mail, because I want it to reach you asap.  I tried to
send you my phone number Sunday, but now I'm going to be out of town for
a few days.  Please feel free to write me if you wish.

Please hang in there poohbear!  You are worth it!!!

-kk
From: root@khijol.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: time lag and re:technical comments 2
Date: 4 Sep 92 17:03:45 GMT

X-ANON-Version: 0.4


this was posted a few minutes after the same message was posted to twwells

-----------------------------------8<--------------------------------------

someone posted ...
 
           >  From where I am, things posted to khijol get to the
           >  newsgroup much
           >  faster than those posted to twwells.
 
that has been my experience too ... but let me try it
this is being posted to twwells before being posted to khijol
 
same someone also posted about having a "!" and a "@" in the
address... that a workaround was to put a \ before the ! ...
I have found that to work too...so I post to
        khijol\!anonasar@saturn.upl.com

-------------------------------------------->8------------------------------

please let me know which one you see first ... thanks ...

Lavender ...


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From: weaverli0469@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: staying in my body; how??
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:07:41 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

Hi All!!

        I have a question of a somewhat personal nature. My SO is coming up to
see me in sept. (he lives out of town) Things have gone pretty well between us
and are starting to get kind of serious. I don't know what's going to happen.
we haven't gotten intimate yet, but I can foresee us doing things. I've had
trouble in the past staying in the here and now when "things" are happening. Is
there anything that has worked for anyone to stay in while they're making love.
It's not fair that I don't have the feelings that are normal while making love.
I guess I need some suggestions because I really love him a lot.  I don't know
if i've posted this to the right group, but i guess since it's the abuse that's
preventing me from feeling it's the right group.  I tend to associate sex with
abuse.... I haven't gotten close to a guy (both emotionally and physically) for
a year. These are new feelings for me also scary which it shouldn't be. I don't
know; I sound like I'm rambling on and on. I just want to be "here" when things
happen. any suggestions are welcome. thanks!!

        E-hugs to all who need them!!

                -Shawna
From: root@khijol.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: re: rambling
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:38:23 GMT

X-APS-Version: 0.2

> Subject: rambling
> Date: 28 Aug 92 15:17:00 GMT
> Sender: v130py5w@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Renee M Sparling)

> i have had so many emotions running through me that it's not funny. i can't
> stand going from happy to depressed even suicidal in half a breath. Then jump
> back to giddy. These mood swings are hard to keep quite, ya know what i mean
> when your joking with someone yucking it up and then you become solemn and quite
> and only give one word answers to questions, then turn around and chat their ear
> off..........<sigh> it's frustrating

Gee, sounds familiar.  I was happy this morning for no reason, then almost
suicidal, then depressed.  Now I'm kinda neutral.  Shit.  I think I'm going
nuts. :(

- The Woman Hater

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From: sandro@asylum.UUCP (Sandro Wallach)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Talking to a survivor
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:49:24 GMT

aatresa@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (Teresa Kline) writes:
>But, I have to admit, I think it's not just survivors who have this problem.
>I have friends who have a lot of mines of their own who are *not* survivors.

They're not survivors?   They're dead?    :-O

Yeah, I know you mean surivivors of sexual child abuse, but I think
just about everyone is a survivor of enough abuse that they wind up
with a few big landmines.  (Or are they mindmines?)  The people who
really seem mentally healthy have found ways of removing, covering, or
working around their own damage.  Watch them under enough stress and
you'll start to see their mental bandaids; trace them back (if you
can) and you'll find trauma.  That makes them some kind of survivor,
in my book.

A lot of people don't like this idea, though.  I didn't used to,
because I used to think I had a great childhood and the best possible
parents.  (Self-protection can make people seem most irrational.)

Anyway.    Just silly nit-picking.    Sorry.

	-- sandro  (sandro@ELF.com)


Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1012@twwells.com (All Me of Us)
Subject: Re: One more time.
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 01:28:00 GMT

Hi Crystal--

>Hello, I'm going to try this yet again. We're having trouble with our
>news feed so this hasn't been able to get out yet (This is the fourth time
>I've tried sending this. I'm about ready to give up.

Your message made it to my news feed today.  Welcome; you are in
the right place.  Please don't give up.

>I think I
>am going to go crazy if I don't talk about this to someone who understands the
>pain and .... suffering? i've been going through over the last few years
>trying to deal with this (Effectively) Ha Ha Ha I'm beginning to firmly
>believe that nothing will stop the nightmares. Help!!!!!!!!!!!

I understand; it's taken me over ten years to find the right forum
and the right people to talk to about my abuse.  And it will take me
a lot more talking until it's over. 

I look forward to hearing more of your story.

>Will someone please E-mail Me???

I'm sending this to you and to the net, to give you two chances.
I hope it reaches you.
 

All Me of Us



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: kram+@SOUTHFORK.EDRC.CMU.EDU (Paul Kram)
Subject: Adults saying NO
Originator: kram@SOUTHFORK.EDRC.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:18:44 GMT


Can I be sure a survivor means "Yes" when she says "Yes"?  
Does the difficulty with saying "No" carry over to 
relationships that you choose to have with another 
adult?  (e.g. do you become involved sexually before
you really want to?)  Is there a way to ask the
Yes/No question that has a better chance of getting
a freely-given heartfelt true answer?  

Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Talking to a survivor
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 22:47:37 GMT

Scot Silverstein (scott_silverstein@yccatsmtp.ycc.yale.edu) wrote:

: Am I alone in having the feeling that talking to a Survivor
: can leave a person thinking he/she's just traversed a mine field
: covered by barbed wire, barefoot?

Nope, you're not alone.  Seeing one, every once in a while, coming out
the other side is what keeps me trying.
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: doug@cdc.hp.com (Doug Sojourner)
Subject: Re: Adults saying NO
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:28:58 GMT
Reply-To: dsojourner@cdc.hp.com
Organization: HP California Design Center, Santa Clara, CA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.3 PL5

I know that for myself, the difficulty with saying no DOES carry over
into relationships, and is MORE of a problem the closer and more
intimate I become with someone.  My wife helps on this point in a
couple of ways:
1) She put real emphasis on the fact that what she really
	wants (in asking the question) is to know what I want.
2) She keeps aware when we are making love to see if I'm spacing out,
	and asks if I'm "ok" if she's not sure.

Even then, I still "lie" about things, so I have to take some
responsibility for what happens too...

Doug Sojourner
dsojourner@cdc.hp.com 
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: doug@cdc.hp.com (Doug Sojourner)
Subject: Re: Ouch. (SPOILERS)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 21:29:00 GMT
Reply-To: dsojourner@cdc.hp.com
Organization: HP California Design Center, Santa Clara, CA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.3 PL5

Ouch too (& I'm not even in the group targeted).  Just now I don't
feel like ever reading something from either of those two people
again: even if there are good reasons for their pain, I don't think
that justifies their saying something like that in this environment.
It feels like abuse to me ...

Doug Sojourner
dsojourner@cdc.hp.com
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: TY.AU7@isumvs.iastate.edu (C. MARIE RIGGINS)
Subject: Re: Television Special
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 18:00:07 GMT

>On Friday, September 4, Oprah Winfrey will be the host of Scared Silent,
>an hour long television special airing simultaneously on CBS, NBC. and PBS.
>(It will air Sunday, Sept. 6 on ABC)  It will mark the first time a non-
>news event has been carried during prime time by three networks.  The subject:
>Child Abuse.
>
>On her TV show in 1985, Oprah revealed that she herself had been a victim of
>child abuse.  This special will feature true stories - solutions -
>explanations on how it may start and how it can be stopped - as well as ways
>to prevent it and to intervene in actual cases, plus a toll-free child abuse
>hotline.
>
I'm glad to see that something more than lip-service is being done by
the mass media.  It's too late to help us but lets all hope that this
will prevent todays children from going through the same pain and
shame that we felt because child abuse was not an acceptable topic
of discussion.  As with all things worthwhile persistance pays off.
Marie :)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: TY.AU7@isumvs.iastate.edu (C. MARIE RIGGINS)
Subject: newcomer
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 05:22:00 GMT

See'ya
Marie :)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1186@twwells.com (Lavender)
Subject: emotions
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:14:56 GMT
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com


If I could have expressed my emotions in the way that the persons did who posted generally that they hated women, I would be a hell of a lot closer to 
understanding myself than I am now.



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Sherri)
Subject: 'hating' a gender(was Re: Shields UP, Mr. Worf! <<possible spoilers>>
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 12:59:41 GMT


I'll repeat the <<possible spoilers>> due to the impossible longness of my
subject line.



Hey, maybe we should replace 'spoilers' with 'shields up'.  I always hated
the word we use as a warning, makes it sound as if what we have to say
makes us even dirtier than we feel if that's even possible.  Or maybe just
using ****'s to border whichever words of warning we wish to use.

Anyway, I have a number of feelings about this thread.  From the first post
I sort of made the assumption that he really did understand that there are
lots of women out there that are nothing like their abusers.  Probably both
posters have had negative experiences with women who have had power over 
them in some way, and they have a need to express this anger somehow without
being bound by rules of appropriateness.  This is all my impression and
I've based these ideas on my experience as a sometime 'MAN'-hater.

I feel pretty okay for this anger being expressed here.  Women here have
expressed anger at men in the past, though they've usually couched it in
a lot more disclaimers.  I appreciated the openness and freedom of expression
in these posts, though.  I didn't see these posts as _advocating_ anger
and hatred towards women in general.  That would have been a lot different.
I get a lot more disturbed by posts which actually seem to be claiming
'this is how women feel' 'these are the things that women will do' or
stuff like that than I do by a poster talking about how he or she feels.

At the same time, I do feel that not everyone will want to hear these posts,
and we should try and come up with appropriate warnings like 'anger towards
women' or something?  I don't know the best way on this.  But certainly not
everyone here is really wel suited to help you express these feelings :)

Take care,

Sherri

Who, as a friend of mine once put it, 'I've been abused by people of both
genders, so I don't feel comfortable with anybody.  I just wish someone would
develop a new sex so I could have some friends who don't scare me.'
From: root@khijol.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: say what ... reply and thanks
Date: 4 Sep 92 02:08:30 GMT

X-ANON-Version: 0.4


Ed ... your encapsulated message in reply to the post requesting to know
what you and Bill were talking about was certainly appreciated...

I am in a state right now, that because of my situation, that I need to know
that an anon posting service is safe ... 

I am probably being very selfish but I cannot add more speculation about my
abilities or ill health or whatever that I am sure my colleagues would
be very happy to pass around ... I, at this moment need to be able to post
here annonymously... and the fact that folk who wish to reply to me must do so
openly or publicly does certainly appeal to me.

Have any of you ever had to cope with the situation where you hate your mother,
and have a female boss who insists on acting like your mother ... ???

HELP


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