HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU ("Bill Harrison (713)-743-2789")
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Reply-To: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:01:33 GMT

>>
>>But travel is so broadening.   In the past twenty years I've 
>>travelled on privately owned trains, drunk privately provided
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>water, used privately generated electricity, had private garbage
>>haulage, used privately run telephone systems, and you know what: 
>>in no case could I tell the difference in a systematic way.  Some
>>were better than the government service, and some worse.    There
>>simply is not enough evidence around to persuade me that Government
>>is either a better director of investment, a better producer of the
>>service, or even a better self-regulator, than any private company
>>in these areas.
>

Jon -- where were these trains?? As a *very small* point, private utility
companies can (and do) give large political donations to parties I disapprove
of (e.g., oh... Republicans). I'd much rather they spent the money I pay them
on improving services etc etc.... The utility companies (in California) were
regulated by a "Utility Commission" which set price scales etc. Conversely,
the local cable TV outfit simply gouged what the market would bear.

Bill
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\               /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Bill Harrison,            \             /       "Be as radical as... |
| University of Houston, TX  >-----------<         reality itself"     |
| CHEM91@JETSON.BITNET      /             \                V. I. Lenin |
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/               \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU ("Bill Harrison (713)-743-2789")
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Reply-To: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 22:13:34 GMT

[stuff deleted]
>
>It means what I explained earlier in the same posting.   We could
>organize defence on a bake sale basis, but how many of us know
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (what does this mean?)
>enough about defence to make sensible decisions?    It's simply 
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (and politicians do??????)
>more efficient to have central design offices and decision making
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (waffle;
you would state the reverse in car, TV design etc. What's the difference here?)
>and for the government collect the money from the rest of us to
>pay for it all.
>
>|>                             US defense (sic) contractors are the
>|> most bloated, inefficient, corrupt, etc etc. organizations known 
>|> in the industrial world. We've all heard the stories about the 
>|> $500 toilet seats etc
>
>But this says nothing.   In the US, the vast majority of defence
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^ (well, you don't have to pay for them, as I said
I do, in my previous mesasage [and you deleted before responding to me and the
rest of the net]).
>contractors are not owned by the Govt.   They are companies.   It
                                                   ^^^^^^^^^ (I thought
that companies were "more" efficient than bureaucracies????)
>may be true that they are bloated, but that says nothing about the
>efficiency of Government paying for defence out of taxes versus the
>citizens attempting to do it on an individual basis.
                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (what??? who even 
*suggested* anything like this???? Certainly not me...)
>
>jon.

With all due grovelling respect to your omnipotent intellect ---
you're waffling and not responding to the points I've raised... ;=)

Bill

ps I've been told that it's courteous *not* to edit other's messages and
accidentally changing their apparent meaning without indicating that you've
made "cuts".     ;=( 
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\               /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Bill Harrison,            \             /       "Be as radical as... |
| University of Houston, TX  >-----------<         reality itself"     |
| CHEM91@JETSON.BITNET      /             \                V. I. Lenin |
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/               \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
From: jim@cs.strath.ac.uk (Jim Reid)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Free Trade (was Re: Currency Problems)
Date: 1 Oct 92 09:54:00 GMT
	<1992Sep30.140406.17196@osf.org>
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Strathclyde Univ., Glasgow, Scotland.
In-reply-to: sp@osf.org's message of 30 Sep 92 14:04:06 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.140406.17196@osf.org> sp@osf.org (Simon Patience) writes:

   I take the point about supply/demand but if this was really an issue then
   the imported coal prices would also rise if the demand was greater than
   supply. I have been led to believe that much of UK coal is not in places 
   condusive to being dug out, ie deep, and it is this, as much as anything
   that makes it expensive.

British Coal produces the cheapest deep mined coal in Western Europe.
It's too simplistic to just compare the cost of domestic coal with
imports. This ignores the impact on other economic factors - balance
of payments, GDP, unemployment, and so on - as well as environmental
considerations and the strategic issue of a stable, long-term energy
source. It is insane for an island built on coal to be importing the
stuff.

Another point is that the biggest power stations are right next to
British Coal's mines. The coal comes out the ground and straight into
the power station. With imports, millions of tons of coal will have to
be shipped by rail or road to these power stations.

   Real free trade normally requires that subsidies don't exist, at least for
   good passing within the free trade area. My big complaint with the EC is
   that it allows (actually condones) governments to subsidise industries
   left, right and centre thus completely distorting trade at the expense of
   the consumer normally.

This isn't so, save for the lunacy of the Common Agricultural Policy.
The EC forced British Aerospace to pay back a #50M "sweetener" that
the government added when they sold off the then nationalised British
Leyland car company to BAe. The EC decided that this #50M was a
government subsidy and broke EC law and/or competition policy. This
has not been an isolated example.

   I have come to conclusion that it is extremely cost inefficient to leave
   something as important as power generation in government hands.

Not necessarily - it all depends on how the government manages the
job. Knee-jerk dogmas like "public sector bad, private sector
good" - or vice versa - are invariably wrong. The world's strongest
economies have a mixture of both and have governments that can plan
for the future instead of how to win the next election.

Current (excuse the pun) trends in electricity production in the UK
lead me to conclude that putting the industry in private hands is not
a good idea either. Long-term national interests are being ignored for
the sake of short-term profits.

		Jim
From: agc@bmdhh298.bnr.ca (Alan Carter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Abuse A Brit (was Re: Pardon my ignorance and such)
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:17:34 GMT
Organization: BNR-Europe-Limited, Maidenhead, England

In article <TORKEL.92Sep28180332@bast.sics.se>, torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen) writes:
|> In article <6250083@hpopd.pwd.hp.com> ian@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Ian Watson) writes:
|> 				       
|>>I've been hauled up once before for using this term ["Jap"], and I still
|>>don't see why.  To me, it's the equivalent to 'Brit', which I don't
|>>find in the least offensive.
|> 
|>     ...In the case of "Jap" it has emerged in soc.culture.japan that some
|> Japanese at least consider it highly offensive... 

Can anyone think of a derogatory term used by other nations (that the
British can understand to be insulted by it), to refer to the British
(or in my case the English)?

I don't mean things like 'Limey' or (from a Scot) 'Englishman' :-)

   Alan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Maidenhead itself is too snobby to be pleasant. It is the haunt of the
   river swell and his overdressed female companion. It is the town of showy
   hotels, patronized chiefly by dudes and ballet girls. 

   Three Men In A Boat, Jerome K. Jerome, 1889
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: VNS, Wed 30-Sep-1992
Date: 1 Oct 1992 13:05:19 GMT
Organization: SunConnect
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.france.sun.com

In article <qh3u2oo@zola.esd.sgi.com>, livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
> In article <1992Sep30.161026.29890@rdg.dec.com>, cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn) writes:
> >
> > A former TV reseracher has been charged with purgery following 
> > his participation in a TV documentary in which the Northern 
> > Ireland security forces were accused of collusion with loyalist 
> > terrorists.
> 
> Well, don't leave it like that.   What on earth did he do?
> Purgery, phew!

Force-fed them Andrew's Liver Salts perhaps?

Steve
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY)
Subject: Re: Accents (was Re: Abuse a Brit)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 21:33:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.191154.28988@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, ckp2n@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Chris Po writes...
>sue@netcom.com  writes:
>My mother, who is German and has lived in the U.S. for 35 years,
>is continually asked if she is English.  And strangely, when I
>lived in England, many people thought I was English because I
>"don't look American."  I never had the nerve to ask what that
>was supposed to mean....
> 
>Chris

Maybe I can clarify it for you.  It means you didn't have that look of 
over-eager dumbness that characterises Americans abroad.  Also you
probably didn't ask how many cents in a pound or where can I buy
German Francs.


Laurence

Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:13275 rec.arts.books:17239
From: nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:48:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: VOILA.NICKH.92Sep30104858
	<1992Sep29.212802.4550@epas.toronto.edu>
	<1992Sep29.223349.13659@athena.cs.uga.edu>
	<1992Sep30.121706.4893@epas.toronto.edu>
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: nickh@VOILA.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU

In article <1992Sep30.121706.4893@epas.toronto.edu> sfysh@epas.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Moskal Fysh) writes:

   I didn't pick them out, the school system (at least here), already
   does it.  It's called streaming.  And I don't call throwing
   Shakespeare at 13-year-olds who've never even read a whole novel an
		  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   "invitation".  Seems more like a threat to me.

There in a nutshell, the ghastly truth.

How do these people exist? By the time I was thirteen I'd read about a
thousand novels. They were my raison d'etre. I spent more time reading
than I did asleep. Maybe I was a little extreme, but not to have read
a single novel by that age is a complete tragedy.

Nick
From: nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: The end of society as we know it (was Re: Currency Problems)
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:15:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: VOILA.NICKH.92Oct5121544
	<BvJDG4.CBt@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: nickh@VOILA.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU

In article <BvJDG4.CBt@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU> streater@unixjr.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Tim Streater) writes:

   Wind and wave have done very little so far. Even in California.  I
   never hear it said, for example, that for the price of seeing the
   hills bounding 3 major passes into the Central Valley *littered*
   with thousands of windmills, we have avoided needing to build some
   large number of power stations. (If other CA residents have figures
   on this, I would appreciate hereing them). Where would we build
   hundreds of windmills in the UK - people wouldn't stand for it.
   Where is there enough consistent wind (other than Westminster)? As
   for wave, if I remember, the River Severn is the only place in the
   UK with enough of a tidal bore to make it viable - environmental
   shock-horror all round.

That's tidal power, not wave power. Different kettle of fish. The
Severn isn't the only place either, just the one with best potential
(to produce a significant fraction of the UK's electricity with a
single barrage). Wave power (with Salter's duck) is dead and gone in
the UK through systematic governmental sabotage (I'm not just being
paranoid here, it's all true and widely known), despite potential to
produce many GW for less money than nuclear or fossil.

I don't have figures on wind, but a single windmill can generate
several MW, and of course the UK has a lot of remote areas. I don't
think they spoil the landscape at all, but then maybe I'm strange: the
thought of a line along Totternish (in Skye) is very pleasing.

(this, unlike the faffing around on nuclear waste, is not a NIMBY
issue: the best wind is genuinely in remote and largely uninhabited
areas. Alternatively we can build floating wind farms. Or gee, let the
wind drive waves and then use offshore arrays of ducks).

Nick Haines nickh@cmu.edu
From: fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Date: 4 Oct 92 14:43:40 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:


> And now you've hit on the very reason why I could never be a
>Libertarian - apart from them being a mob of freeloading scum,
>of course.

I think you have this backwards. The libertarian position is that all
costs should be internalised and that people should pay for their own
consumption rather than freeload from others.


>These are things like infrastructure-provision, as you suggest,
>defence, health care, education, museums, art galleries, 
>libraries, justice, prisons, and a whole bunch of smaller stuff 
>where it is perfectly rational to provide them collectively either
>because no individual has a sufficiently broad view of requirements
>to make the right decisions, or because the demand by any single
>individual is too bursty to lead to good investment decisions,
>even though society as a whole has a permant requirement for
>some capacity.

Since I'm a minarchist rather than an anarchist, I'll agree with you as
regards defence and the Justice system. It's impossible to have an
economy if property rights are not guaranteed.

Museums, Art galleries etc, nope. I can't see why these couldn't be paid
for by the fols who enjoy them just as do cinemas and football clubs. If
thiose folks aren't willing to pay the going rate for their pleasures
then it isn't up to others to subsidise them. Helath care could be
handled by removing the system of professional monopoly and by a
reasonable insurance infrastructure.

Re investment decisions. What brings you to believe that the government
can invest people's money more wisely than people themselves? 

>jon. 

FoFP
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
From: streater@unixjr.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Tim Streater)
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 05:14:06 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.212802.4550@epas.toronto.edu> sfysh@epas.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Moskal Fysh) writes:
>
>It's bonkers because Shakespeare's English is now 375 or so years old.
>Why should we be expecting 14-year-olds to comprehend it?  It's no

For someone in a university English Dept to say this boggles the mind. 14 year
olds are quite capable of understanding Rattlestick, given the chance. Those
formative years are the only chance you will get to make kids interested in
things that matter. And don't give them the choice, either. I was forced to
do English Lit. at O-level (my laziness would have had me not do it) but in
retrospect this was a good thing.
>
>wonder so many people dislike reading, and never go to the theatre.
>
The like/dislike of reading seems to start much earlier. Interestingly, I know
of adults (some with PhD's, even) who never do any recreational reading. I
don't understand it, myself.

tin.
From: cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Know someone at Triumph or Norton???
Date: 6 Oct 92 11:02:22 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Oct5.182245.11475@pixel.kodak.com> dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com (Dave Jones) writes:

>Are there any British motorcycle companies?  Triumph and BSA merged over
>20 years ago, Norton merged with them some years later, then there was
>the Meriden Workers Cooperative trying to make something out of the
>remnants of the Norton-Villiers-Triumph lash-up after it all collapsed,
>and then -- what?  Maybe a cottage industry in parts for classic bikes
>but hardly anything to keep Papa Honda awake at night.

Norton is still alive and well and making twin rotary engined
motorcycles of large displacement. There is, I think, a touring
version, a sports version, and variety of specials for police and other
emergency services. They also have a racing version which did pretty
well.

A new company has bought the Triumph name and is making a variety of
models from 750 to 1200 cc which are widely regarded as being at least
the equal in quality and performance to Honda products. They have only
been in production for a couple of years so longevity is still
uncertain, though they seem to be very soundly engineered.
-- 
Chris Malcolm    cam@uk.ac.ed.aifh          +44 (0)31 650 3085
Department of Artificial Intelligence,    Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK                DoD #205
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
From: baker@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Andrew Baker)
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 06:23:54 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.112614.3849@darwin.ntu.edu.au> salter_duke@darwin.ntu.edu.au writes:
>I've just read in my "Grauniad Weekly" that all British school-children
>are going to have a compulsory test on a Shakespeare play at the age of 14.
>
>Is this really true, or is it just a pinko-liberal rumour spread by the
>"Gradiron" to convince the rest of the world that the Tories have gone
>stark staring bonkers?

Why is this bonkers?  It sounds like an excellent idea (although it might
be better to require more than one play).
From: streater@unixjr.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Tim Streater)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Accents (was Re: Abuse a Brit)
Date: 3 Oct 92 08:25:26 GMT
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

In article <henk.718048479@dutepp17> h.jonkers@et.tudelft.nl (Henk Jonkers) writes:
>
>And most of the Dutch people I know don't pronounce English really
>that well (including myself, unfortunately), usually it's very easy
>to tell they're Dutch just by their accent (it's quite a characteristic
>accent I think).
>

When I worked at CERN, I mixed with many Europeans of different nationalities.
I felt that most of them did an excellent job of pronunciation, and at the
risk of appearing patronising (which is not my intent), I want to say that I
enjoyed all their English accents. It certainly enriched my experience a lot,
and after all, mother-tongue English speakers have just as wide a variety of
accents. I ended up being able to place people from 8 or 9 different European
countries/regions, by the way they spoke English.

Tin.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Organization: sgi
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 03:41:54 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.125001.24383@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
|> From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
|> >If this were true, why would BMW want to be in partnership
|> >with R.R. to make aero engines.   Why would Taiwan Aerospace
|> >want to be in on BAe's aircraft manufacturing.
|> 
|> A large chunk of Britain's Aerospace industry is being closed
|> down and will be re-opened in Taiwan. Weren't high-tech
|> industries like aerospace supposed to be replacing low-tech
|> industries like coal? What are we replacing aerospace with?
|> Dole queue clerks, I believe. No doubt you will regard this as
|> an excellent example of service industries taking over.

No, I regard it as a good example of the way you distort facts.

jon.
From: jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: bad teeth (was: pardon etc.)
Date: 1 Oct 92 15:50:31 GMT
Organization: Wyse Technologies San Jose, Ca

In article <1992Sep27.170518.7302@philmtl.philips.ca> ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes:
>
>Let me guess - she persuaded you to replace all those nasty amalgum fillings
>that were poisoning your body with mercury!
>
>As a counter example, I still have sound NHS amalgum fillings from over
>twenty years ago.  I compare this with composite fillings which I seem to
>have to have replaced every couple of years now.

I know someone who lost all his hair about five years ago. IT literally fell out
in handfulls. He even lost his eyebrows and eyelashes.

After visiting dozens of doctors and having dozens of attepts at diagnosis, it
was eventually suggested that he have his amalgam fillings removed. His hair is now
making a come-back, and I'd say he will be back to 'normal' in a year or so.

Mock not!

Jim Munro
From: dk0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DIMITRIOS KOUVATSOS)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: ECU and ERM
Date: 26 Sep 92 06:59:55 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <Bv04w9.B6@gabriel.keele.ac.uk>, csp48@keele (J.W. Kirriemuir) writes
:
>
>I know that ECU stands for Europe Can't Unite, but what
>does ERM stand for (Europe Rejects Maastricht?).
>
>JK
>

A funny and timely interpretation of the initials... Anyway, in case the
question was serious, it's Exchange Rate Mechanism (and European Currency
Unit). The ERM has been around since 1979 with the aim of facilitating the
eventual convergence of EC currencies; it is an integral part of EMS
(European Monetary System, the initials seem endless). But trouble is, nobody
can keep pace with the mighty Deutsche Mark...

-- 
------------------------    "This is the greatest planet on the face of
+= Dimitris Kouvatsos *=     the earth"
<dk0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>
------------------------           -- Vice President J. Danforth Quayle
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Subject: Re: Abuse A Brit (was Re: Pardon my ignorance and such)
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 09:11:51 GMT

In article <6250087@hpopd.pwd.hp.com> ian@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Ian Watson) writes:

   >My fond wish is that
   >people will think a bit more about whether there is mean intent behind 
   >a term and react accordingly.  It's a lot easier for all than straining
   >to be PC all the time.

   A reasonable comment, but I think it is possible to make a
distinction here. "PC" in a derogatory sense typically applies to
injunctions against using words like "blind" or "crippled" or, in a
rather funny joke, "man" (which should be "vaginally challenged").
"Jap" belongs to a different category, namely that of words which were
coined to be offensive, or were in fact used for a long time to express
contempt or disdain. People who grew up after WWII may feel that the
term "Jap" is now harmless or even friendly, but it should not be surprising
that there are many for whom the word retains its old associations.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:13157 rec.arts.books:17075