From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Oswald's motions in the TSBD after the assassination.
Date: 13 Aug 92 03:30:46 GMT
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada

>Tony Simon > & >>>
>Bruce Schuck >> & >>>>

>>What? If he heard Baker and Truly while on the stairs, then they would
>>have heard him.

>No.Oswald didn't want to be caught. This provided him with a reason for trying
>to be quiet on the stairs.

Do you realize how silly that sounds. Try and run down 4 flights of
stairs 'quietly'. You either run and make noise or you walk quietly.
Quietly is slow, real slow.

>>If he didn't hear them until in the vestibule, then he was alreay home free.
>>Walking down a corridor is not going to make much noise if any.
>>

>But Oswald might not have been sure that they didn't hear him come down the
>stairs, therefore, he may have decided to act calm, like nothing happened.

In the vestibule, waiting to be seen? 

>>>>Carolyn Arnold was pregnant on Nov 22, and remembers having a craving
>>>>for a glass of water. She saw Oswald in the 1st floor lunchroom at
>>>>"about 12:15. It may have been slightly later."
>>>>   -- Anthony Summers "Conspiracy" p 108
>>>>
>>
>>>According to Roffman pp 185-186 Carolyn Arnold claimed to see Oswald around
>>>12:15 on the first floor. From the FBI report:
>>
>>If you start believing in the FBI, you are in real trouble.
>>
>>Mrs. Arnold makes it clear the FBI deliberately misquoted her
>>testimony.

>Did the FBI deliberately misquote her statement that said she came downstairs
>at 12:25 while three people who came downstairs with her said it was 12:15
>and one other said it was 12:20? Or is Roffman lying? 

If Roffman is quoting the FBI report, then he was misinformed.
I couldn't find her testimony in vol 6 of the Hearings, which seems to
have all the TSBD employees in it. She was probably never interviewed
by the WC because of what she told the FBI.

Here's what she told Summers.

"About a quarter of an hour before the assassination, I went into the
lunchroom...Oswald was sitting in one of the booth seats on the right
hand side as you go in. He was alone as usual and appeared to be
having lunch. I did not speak to him, but recognized him clearly. It
was about 12:15. It may have been slightly later."

Sounds pretty clear to me.

>So, Summers and Roffman are at odds with one another. 
>I certainly can't believe both of them.

You miss the point. It's Summers and the FBI who are at odds, because
clearly Mrs. Arnold thinks the FBI misquoted her.

>>Jarman and Norman strolled through the lunchroom between 12:20 and
>>12:25 on the way upstairs to watch the motorcade. Thats when Oswald
>>saw them. He would have had to have ESP to know they did that if he
>>really wasn't in the lunchroom as late as 12:20/12:25.
>>

>Where do you get Oswald's statement that he saw them as they were strolling
>upstairs? Why couldn't it have been when they were walking out to the sidewalk,
>which means that the time is earlier than 12:20/12:25? Did Jarman and Norman
>say that they saw Oswald while on their way up to the 5th floor?

The only time they strolled through the room 'together' was while
walking upstairs. Before that, Norman had been eating lunch alone
and Jarman had come to meet him. They went outside together, but they
only walked through the room 'together' between 12:20/12:25.

>>> Again, does this prevent Oswald from being on the
>>>6th floor at 12:30? No.
>>
>>No. But Arnold Rowland saw two men on the 6th floor at 12:15, one with
>>a rifle. They obviously were not Lee Harvey Oswald if he was still in
>>the 1st floor lunchroom.
>>

>The other was probably Williams who ate his lunch there and then went down to
>the 5th floor around 12:20. I still see no direct evidence of Lee being on the
>1st floor at 12:15.

Carolyn Arnold is the *only* person who saw Oswald *anywhere* at
12:15. I at least have *one* witness, plus Oswalds testimony of what
went on in the lunchroom between 12:20/12:25. You have nothing!

>>
>>*Nobody* saw Oswald on the 6th floor after 11:55.
>>

>Maybe Brennan did see him. He saw somebody who looked like Oswald. Again, he
>couldn't be 100% certain.

His testimony is worthless and has been torn to shreds by many people.

> Is Carolyn Arnold 100% sure that she saw him later
>than 12:15 pm? Especially when she said that she went downstairs at 12:25 and
>others said it was 12:15?

She said 12:15 to Summers. 

>>But do *you* have any witnesses putting Oswald on any staircase or
>>elevator after 12:20, which happens to be *after* men were spotted on
>>the 6th floor.

>Do you have any witnesses that put Oswald anywhere else in the building from
>12:15 to 12:30. Sure you've got Carolyn Arnold, but it appears to me that
>she didn't really know what time it was if/when she saw him.

She knows *exactly* when she saw him. 12:15.

> Anyway,
>no, I do not have a witness who can say for 100% certain that Oswald was on
>the 6th floor after 12:20. 

Glad to see you admit to 12:20. How about after 11:55.

>>
>>Since their are witnesses giving Oswald an alibi up til 12:20, and
>>witnesses who saw gunmen on the 6th floor as early as 12:15, Oswald is
>>certainly innocent in my eyes.

>That is your opinion.

>The way I see it. . . Oswald came downstairs around noon. A man named Piper said
>he saw and talked to Oswald at that time. Oswald ate lunch quickly and saw
>Jarman and Norman head out of the building between 12:00 and 12:10 (Norman's
>statement). Oswald then went upstairs and was possibly seen by Carolyn Arnold
>(I say possibly, because I am not convinced that she did see him). He reached
>the 6th floor and made his way to the sniper's nest making careful to not be
>seen by Williams. 

Ahhhhh. The old 'running quietly' trick. Williams would have had to be
deaf not to have heard someone walking around.

>Possibly he made his way along the North and East walls.
>According to Williams, he could only see to the west and to the back (north)
>from where he sat. Oswald then got into the nest and waited. While there, he
>was seen by Arnold. A few minutes later, Williams left the floor to go to the
>5th floor. Then Oswald was seen at ~12:30 by Brennan and Euins as he fired the
>last shot. Oswald then made his getaway.

Nice fantasy. Not one scrap of evidence though.
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