From: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: A place for islam in the modern world
Keywords: islam
Date: 3 Oct 92 17:53:18 GMT
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <1992Sep30.084045.7881@leland.Stanford.EDU> yunus@loro-next.Stanford.EDU (Jonas Sami Celebiler) writes:
<I'm surprised at how little talk there is about islam in the States and   
<indeed in most of the western world.

There is actually more talk about it than I should have expected.

<This group is about religion in  
<generol (is it not?), so here's some (well needed) talk of islam.

Yes, this group is about religion in general, and if there is little talk
about Islam here, it is because there is no one for such a discussion.

<If all the doctrines, and  
<writings, and so forth, are taken in a general sense, not appplied  
<strictly,directly or literaaly (ie traditions, laws), but rather,  
<interpreted and thought about rationally and logivally, I find it very  
<enriching, and actually to make sense.

Criticism, n.:  [...] literary #.  The art of discovering meaning
that the author didn't know was there.

I'm not saying that you can't get Islamic doctrine to make sense, but
you can just as well do the same with, say, _The Hunting of the Snark_.

<The key is to skim off the surface bull shit like wearing a veil,
                        *** ******* *********
You could be stoned for that.

<And this is what you should come up with.  At least it's what I came up  
<with.  Allah is all.  All is allah.  Allah is not some dinky guy up in  
<some fantasy land, he is not an object, not a thing, he is more a  
<structure, better yet, the force behind the structure of the Universe.

You're wrong, though.  Allah is not some impersonal force or structure.

<When the Kuran <...> says Allah will punish such and such people  
<for such and such a deed, it doesn't mean they will be struck down by  
<lightning the next day.  It means that such and such a deed is negative to  
<the structure of the Universe,

Er, I think you're confusing Islam with Hinduism here, the Qur'an with
the Vedas, and Allah with karma.  No negative influence upon the structure
of the universe in sight.  Just Allah's will.

<and that therefore wether it be in a  
<million years, a million miles away, or right at that place right then,  
<eventually it will come back upon those peole, or upon other people

Which is nonsense, of course.  What event can possibly follow from the
fact that a million years ago, at a million miles away, someone ate a
pork chop and washed it down with wine, and went to bed without praying?

<Is it really good to come away with a "crime" be it religeous or legal.   
<And have others  suffer for it.

Yes, it is.  Right now I'm doing something which is a crime according
to the Old Testament (writing a t.r.m article on Saturday).  I don't
mind anyone to suffer for it.

<Answer if you think its great, or if you think its bull shit,.

It is somewhere in the middle.  I prefer it to Christianity, but I can
say no more than that, and since I prefer anything to Christianity,
it is not much.

Back to the thought process now.

-- 
 `If ye hiv ears oan yer heid - then use them tae lissen.' (The Glasgow Gospel)
Ivan A Derzhanski   (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk;  iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu)
* Centre for Cognitive Science,  2 Buccleuch Place,  Edinburgh EH8 9LW,  UK
* Cowan House, Pollock Halls, 18 Holyrood Park Road, Edinburgh EH16 5BD, UK