HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: armstrng@cs.dal.ca (Stan Armstrong)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Why is not everyone like Jesus? (was: Re: Free Will and Evil)
Date: 6 Nov 92 08:20:10 GMT
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada

The original point of this branch of the thread is in danger of being lost.
Let me try to restate it.

If God can make Jesus a real human being with real free will to really
love Him, he can make soemone free who will never sin. Why didn't he
make every human being that way? Jesus is God, you say. There is an
old theological maxim that says you must not confuse the divine and
human attributes of Jesus. If Jesus was both free and good because he
was God, his life would have availed us nothing. Besides why could God
not similarly invest himself in every human being? You say there can
only be one God-Man. Why?
-- 
Stan Armstrong. Religious Studies Dept, Saint Mary's University, Halifax, N.S.
Armstrong@husky1.stmarys.ca | att!clyde!watmath!water!dalcs!armstrng
From: mt2v+@andrew.cmu.edu (Manuel Luis Torrefranca)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: ECSTACY
Date: 11 Nov 92 07:59:51 GMT

I'm probably the last person to say anything on this issue, but things
like this make me worried.  
That same Love in your heart that you felt, I believe, was always there.
 You probably don't need anything foreign to your system to bring that
out.  Every feeling you felt while on XTC could probably be created from
within yourself.  All this is just from my point of view, so I can be
wrong.
But...

Sometimes I can just look at a tree and nature and feel so at peace with
the world and feel so whole, it's hard to describe it to it's full
extent.  I just feel so good... I find myself embracing everyone I see,
too.  I have to restrain myself sometimes, not to scare people away,
thinking I'm attacking them or something.      

Sometimes at night when I pray, I think of God sitting there right next
to me listening.  When I'm having trouble in life and find everything so
hard to deal with, I envision God hugging me and when I do, I cannot
contain myself, and cry uncontrollably, not in dispair, but in the
overwhelming emotion I experience.   

There are so many experiences to be experienced and feelings to be felt
that don't rely on the effects of a drug out there.  All you have to do
is look for them... not with your eyes, but with your heart.  

Please don't think of me as lecturing you, or condemming you.  Just
sharing my view.  Just someone who cares.
					
							Luis
From: I2LY@cornella.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Original sin
Date: 6 Nov 92 06:22:40 GMT

Just to clarify a recent response to the question of whether original
sin had anything to do with sex  ;
   someone responded that it could not, which is correct.  The reason
is because God had already told Adam and Eve to 'be fruitful and
multiply' (ie have children), which necessarily involves intercourse
(assuming for the moment that IVF etc. were not available!)  Thus
this was actually a commandment, included in God's proclaimation of
'It is good'.
(The command to multiply and fill the earth may be the only one we
have unquestionably obeyed, perhaps taken a bit too literally!)
     Fiona
From: Drew.Corrigan@cs.anu.edu.au (Drew Corrigan)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Worldwide Church of God mailing list
Date: 11 Nov 92 08:00:59 GMT

Hi,

I am a member of the Worldwide Church of God in Canberra, Australia.
Some fellow WCoG members and I have put together an "email fellow-
ship" mailing list for members of the church. If you are a member of
the WCoG and would like to join our mailing list, just drop me a
line.

Regards,

Drew Corrigan   (drew@cs.anu.edu.au)
From: Rob.Burrell@lambada.oit.unc.edu (Rob Burrell)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: damnation/purgatory
Date: 8 Nov 92 06:05:40 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service

What is the purpose of the resurrection (the central theme of the NT) if
all believers simply go to heaven when they die?
Read 1Cor 15, it appears to be what Paul calls "the gospel".

With love in Christ

Rob Burrell  (rlb6750@silver.sdsmt.edu)

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: rreid@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ralph W. Reid III)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: thought for the day (11-11)
Date: 12 Nov 92 07:47:08 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico

Wednesday, November 11:

     Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a
fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a
drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.
<1 Corinthians 5: 11>

-- 
Ralph.  N6BNO.  NOW LOOKING FOR A JOB!
Phone 1-916-345-9155.
lectromail- rreid@ecst.csuchico.edu.
I do not waste time expressing others' opinions!
From: sl313028@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (The black guy.)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: NIV Bible on PC
Date: 8 Nov 92 05:45:10 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <Nov.6.01.30.06.1992.5258@geneva.rutgers.edu> jeffries@iastate.edu (Anthony G Jeffries) writes:
>I am not fortunate enough to own a PC, which I could then use most public 
>domain and shareware Bible software on.  Instead, I have a Macintosh. 

well, i couldn't get back into wuarchive, but just uploaded is the
*FREEWARE* On-Line bible version for Mac.... look in
/doc/bible/mac.  if you cant ftp, well, i guess it's too bad...(i'm not a
mac user).

-jon
sl3130828@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
(the anointed nubian)
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Wanted: Movie Version of "In This House of Brede"
Date: 11 Nov 92 07:31:25 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley

In article <Nov.10.02.10.29.1992.12506@geneva.rutgers.edu> mcia@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Mike Ciaraldi) writes:
>Does anyone remember a book from 20 or so years ago, called
>"In This House of Brede"?  All I can remember is that is was
>about nuns.

It's by Rumer Godden; it's about a monastery of Benedictine nuns in England
in the 1950s and -60s, and it's very good.

>Anyway, I heard they made a movie version of it (maybe a TV movie),
>'way back then.  Does anyone have any info on the movie version?

The TV-movie, starring Diana Rigg, was very bad.  There is just too much
going on in the book, too many people, each with her own personality and
role in the community, to be able to squeeze into two hours!  The producers
tried to cut the story down to two or three people and one plotline,
and ruined it.

>Is it available on video?  

I haven't a clue, but since it isn't worth seeing you needn't bother
searching for it.  Instead, investigate your local library and/or used
bookstore and try to find the book.


Dorothy J. Heydt
UC Berkeley
Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
From: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (Scott Aaron)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Power
Date: 10 Nov 92 06:57:51 GMT
Reply-To: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University

In article <Nov.6.03.35.08.1992.5496@geneva.rutgers.edu>, stehman@hubcap.clemson.edu (Jeff Stehman) writes:
>A few weeks ago my Sunday school class discussed politics in general
>and the presidential race in particular, and I nearly ODed on
>republicanism. :-)  

For the past two weeks at my church, we have focussed on politics well.  God's
primary focus is on people, not systems.  We can pass all the godly laws we
want but that will not make the people more godly.  Jesus came not to establish
an earthly kingdom but a heavenly one and was therefore not interested in the
political system of the Romans.  He went one-on-one with people and changed
their lives and attitudes.  That is how we will make a godly nation.

I hate to use this example but it best illustrates my point (please don't 
start a tangent on this).  The way to stop abortion is not to overturn
Roe vs. Wade or block clinics.  Women have been having abortions for millenia
and will continue to have them whether they are legal or not.  If you want
to stop abortion you have to change the people, not the system.  Opponents of
abortion must decide whether they are pro-life (save as many lives as possible)
or anti-choice (women cannot have the legal choice of abortion).  A truly
pro-life position is NOT political but rather tries to impact people which is
where our focus should be.

As Christians, we must focus on people rather than on systems.  That
is how we will make a godly nation.

  -- Scott @Brandeis

                           I asked Jesus,
                     "How much do you love me?"
                     "This much," He answered;
                        and He stretched out
                         His arms and died.
From: ba2cs252@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Leonidas Hepis)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Nudity - Why be ashamed?
Date: 8 Nov 92 06:23:37 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

Joseph H. Buehler writes about nudity and Adam:

>If you read
>Genesis, you'll see that it didn't even matter to him until after 
he
>sinned that he was naked.

Apparently, before disobeying God, Adam and Eve were both naked 
and not ashamed.  Then they disobeyed God and so they became 
ashamed of their nakedness.  Now... I see a problem.  Eve grabs an 
apple from the tree and she eats it, and so does Adam.  If there's 
anything they should be ashamed of, that would be their hands or 
mouth - why be ashamed of their genitals which were to them yet 
another part of their body just like their hands and feet?  It's 
like... if you kick someone, and God 'catches' you, would you be 
ashamed of your eyebrows?  If you say the wrong word ($%&k!) in a 
family environment you are so much more likely to cover your mouth 
and say "oops!" than cover your knee, or elbow and apologize for 
your action.  

The fact that A&E are said to be ashamed of their genitals after 
disobeying God shows that that particular part of the Bible was 
written by someone who was already covering his genitals in shame.  
I can think of no other reason for that.

People who are naked and not ashamed at nudist beaches, locker 
rooms, and among close family members (such as with the spouse) 
are proof that shame of our naked bodies is far from being part of 
our nature but more an acquired attitude encouraged by people who 
are somehow ashamed of that which God Himself was not ashamed to 
create!

(I could elaborate on why I think the genitals became 'dirty' in 
the minds of people but I'll save that for a future posting on the 
matter.)

>The reason this sort of thing became such a problem afterwards is
>that, in rebelling against God, Adam's body rebelled against his 
soul.
>Before he sinned, Adam had perfect control of his body.

The body rebelled against his soul?  Where did you get that?  I 
thought Xty said that the soul makes the decisions.  If the body 
was to be blamed, then the soul was sinless.  Is that what you 
mean?

If Adam had perfect control of his body before he 'sinned', then 
it would have been impossible for the body to go against (the soul 
of) Adam.  I think the popular belief is that it was the soul's 
fault - not the body's rebellion.

-leo
From: bstuart@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Ben Stuart)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Bible software for Windows
Date: 5 Nov 92 07:47:51 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

abigail@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Shawn Abigail) writes:

>Has anybody had any experience with Bible software for Windows.  I have
>seen the ads, but I would like some first hand testimonials.  I would
>like to be able to have the NIV, NASB, NKJV and KJV all at once, with
>Strongs Numbers, Lexicon support an (hopefully) Greek and Hebrew.  Most
>of the packages I have seen have one or two elements out of this wish
>list, but none have all.  Thanks.

>Shawn Abigail
>abigail@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca


I am also interseted in similar software for the Macintosh system.
Any information along these lines would be appreciated as I have no
knowledge of such software.

Ben
From: caw@gtech.com (Christopher A. White)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Power
Date: 10 Nov 92 07:28:20 GMT
Organization: GTECH Corporation, West Greenwich, RI

In article <Nov.9.01.02.23.1992.10522@geneva.rutgers.edu> hovingh@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (William Hovingh) writes:
>At the risk of exposing myself to lots of flames, I'd like to jump into this
>discussion of Christians in political power by pointing out that the United 
>States of America is *not* a Christian nation, never will be, and (hate to say
>it) never should try to be.

Actually, I'd go more with something like this: currently, the US can't
decide whether it is a free nation or a christian nathion, and as a 
result, it is doing a terrible job at both of them.

Although the argument has been made that the founding fathers were very
much interested in establishing a nation based on christian principles, 
they did nothing to protect it as such. That's because they knew that
christian principles, like democracy, are changed when you protect them.
In this country, we could all vote to change the constitution, or even
to create a new one that was not democratic. Democracy which protects
itself is not democracy, it is something else. Likewise, christian 
principles which protect themselves, or further, propagate themseleves
through coercion, are not chrstian anymore.

I find it frightening that my 'christianity' would be judged by my
political stands, when the one does not nescessarily dictate the other.


Topher
-- 
 Christopher A. White                    | 
 caw@gtech.com                           | Free will is largely overrated. 
 GTech Corporation, West Greenwich, RI   | 
 The opinions expressed are mine alone   |           - Topher
From: MICH@unb.ca (MICH)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: RE: Need Christian Jokes...
Date: 10 Nov 92 07:31:01 GMT
Organization: The University of New Brunswick

In article <Nov.9.01.06.29.1992.10588@geneva.rutgers.edu> happy@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Rusty Soots) writes:
>
>  Hi all.  I serve on the council of Baptist Campus Ministries at N.C. State,
>and I am in need of Christian jokes to put on the announcement sheets
>that I type up for our group every Monday night.  Any help would be
>greatly appreciated!  thanks!
>
How about this one.

Why don't Baptists believe in having sex standing up?

Answer: Because it might lead to dancing.

Jamie Mitchell
From: tivoli!regina@cs.utexas.edu (Regina Foiles)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Interfaith weddings
Date: 6 Nov 92 06:22:27 GMT
Reply-To: tivoli!regina@cs.utexas.edu (Regina Foiles)
Organization: Tivoli Systems Inc., Austin, TX

My sister and her boyfriend are getting married in June. She's
protestant and he's jewish. Neither a minister nor a rabi will marry
them because neither one wants to convert to the others religion. My
sister does want the wedding to be in a house of God. The only thing
we can think of to solve this problem is a Chapel with a
non-denominational Chaplain. I'm sure that this is not a unique
situation. Can someone who has gone through this before, or knows
someone who has, give me some advice on how to help my sister and
future brother-in-law?
 
Please email me directly at regina@tivoli.com because I don't read
this newsgroup.
 
Thanks in advance, 
        Regina Foiles

[Please note the final paragraph -- followups to the group aren't
going to be useful to this person.  --clh]
From: bm90ash@brunel.ac.uk (Adrian S Harvey)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Door-to-Door evang..
Date: 8 Nov 92 05:47:04 GMT
Organization: Brunel University, Uxbridge, UK

I was just wondering if there was anybody out there with door-to-door experiencethat they would like to share.

Any good tips etc.. for breaking the nerves
or even some good first lines for breaking the conversation open.

Thanks in advance.......
From: Steve.Hayes@f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: ECSTACY
Date: 12 Nov 92 07:59:22 GMT

e is no evidence of the drug doing On <09 Nov 1992 20:54> twiggs_te@alice.lrc.edu said to All :

 ttle>I have thought about how I should regret having to alter myself 
 ttle>to feel this
 ttle>way, but I don't for some reason.  I felt I was feeling what 
 ttle>Heaven is like.
 ttle>I've been thinking about this a lot lately, alongside my faith, 
 ttle>and really
 ttle>don't understand why such a heavenly, spiritual feeling is so 
 ttle>bad.  I've even
 ttle>researched it, and there is no evidence of the drug doing any 
 ttle>physical harm
 ttle>to humans.  If everyone were to experience this unifying 
 ttle>feeling, I truly,
 ttle>honestly believe that world peace could be made much easier..  I 
 ttle>mean, it's
 ttle>impossible to have a bad or evil thought while under the 
 ttle>influence of this
 ttle>pill.  I wish I could describe this feeling clearly to all of 
 ttle>you.

Bishop Ignatius Brianchanimov writes that "men of prayer are subjected to all 
kinds of delusion if repentance does not form the foundation of their prayer, 
if it has not become the soul and aim of prayer. Anyone trying to join the 
wedding feast of the Son of God without the clean and bright wedding garment 
prepared by repentance, but simply in rags, in a state of self-delusion and 
sin, will be thrown out into pitch darkness - into demonic delusion."

Ascetic literature abound in warnings to novices not to yield to false visions 
and delusions, not to take an angel of darkness for an Angel of Light. St 
Simeon warns against believing in all kinds of knocking noises, voices, 
intimidations, visions of sensory light, fragrances etc. which tempt the 
awareness of an ascetic at the time of prayer... along with humility, the 
mysterious bond with the Church protects mystics from falling into any false 
mysticism.

(quoted from "The aquisition of the Holy Spirit in ancient Russia" by I.M. 
Kontzevitch, published 1988 by the St Herman of Alaska Brotherhood, P.O. Box 
70, Platina, California 96076)

I suggest that you get hold of a copy of this book and read it. I make no 
judgements about your experiences, but Christian teachers of asceticism and 
prayer have often warned against the danger of "prelest" - spiritual delusion. 

"In our fallen state, only one kind of feeling is admissible in our unseen 
worship of God: the feeling of sorrow for one's sins and sinfulness, one's 
fall and ruin, which is also called lamentation, repentance, contrition of 
spirit ... "A sacrifice unto God is a broken spirit, a broken and a contrite 
heart, O God, thou wilt not despise" (Ps 50[51]:17)

I suggest that you think about your experience. If amid all the good and 
pleasant feelings, the sense of repentance was not also present, then you 
should consider the possibility that your experience might have been one of 
prelest.

[While I've generally closed this discussion, I thought the perspective
of this posting was unusual enough to be worth accepting.  --clh]
From: rreid@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ralph W. Reid III)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: thought for the day (11-09)
Date: 10 Nov 92 06:51:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: geneva.Nov.10.01.51.31.1992.12349
Organization: California State University, Chico

Monday, November 9:

     You people must guard yourselves respecting your spirit, and of
the wife of your youth may no one deal treacherously.  <Malachi 2: 15>

-- 
Ralph.  N6BNO.  NOW LOOKING FOR A JOB!
Phone 1-916-345-9155.
lectromail- rreid@ecst.csuchico.edu.
I do not waste time expressing others' opinions!
From: rolfe@dsuvax.dsu.edu (Tim Rolfe)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Lost Salvation
Date: 9 Nov 92 06:09:47 GMT

I'm afraid I don't have the time to dig it out, but I fairly certain
that C.S.Lewis discusses the possibility of damnation.  If memory
serves, he comments that heaven may well be an acquired taste --- all of
this focusing away from self and on God and others.  If one, after
undergoing what appears to be a complete conversion/rebirth/etc.,  can
back-slide and end up turning completely from God and inward towards
himself or herself, how will heaven and fellowship with God be . . .
heaven?  Maybe hell is just part of heaven where the acoustical tile
spares the rest of the elect from the loud cries of "Leave me alone!"
To borrow from Lewis, if in the end one does not say "Thy will be done"
God replies with "Ok, YOUR will be done."
-- 
                                              --- Tim Rolfe
                                           rolfe@dsuvax.dsu.edu
                                            ROLFE@SDNET.BITNET
From: mussack@innerdoor.austin.ibm.com (Christopher Mussack)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Power
Date: 10 Nov 92 06:57:10 GMT
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstations Division Austin, Texas

> There are lot of folks who feel that the U.S. was explicitly founded on
> Christian principles.  I don't share that view but I do think God was involved.
> I'd be willing to bet that separation of church and state were His idea and
> He did it to protect the church, not the state.
> 
I agree.

Please correct my history, but don't Protestants claim that the "Church",
i.e. Roman Catholicism, went wrong when it became the official church of
the Roman Empire? I know I didn't phrase that right, but is my point valid?
Perhaps someone else could expound on the irony.

There are certain Christian principles that I think should be incorporated
into the government, and others that shouldn't. I don't think laws should
be passed based on the Bible, especially since we can't agree on what the
Bible teaches in specifics.

Some Christian principles that should be used by government:
- equality of every person ("neither slave nor free, Greek nor Jew, 
	man nor woman")
- free press, freedom of ideas ("the truth shall set you free")
- justice
- etc.

Some Christian principles that should not be in government:
- mercy, sentencing determined by how much remorse the guilty shows.
- obedience, those in power are there because we elected them, not
	because God ordained it.
- equal pay, the parable where the farmer pays every laborer the same 
	regardless of how long he's worked.
- etc.

The only "real" Christian principle is submission to Christ, which comes 
from your heart. How can we have laws that recognize that there is no
"Law"?

Despite being so set in my ideas 8-), one issue that doesn't fit is public
education. I think the government should allow every person as much education
as possible, even through college. (Can I get back my wife's tuition? 8-))
How can we do this without instilling religious, cultural, and moral principles?
I'm not comfortable with "value-free education" for elementary students.
Young children learn behavior as well as facts in school. If this issue
is not relevent please ignore. I cop out by sending my kids to Catholic
school. (Can I get a tax rebate? 8-)

Chris Mussack (overburdened taxpayer rendering unto Caeser)

[While I agree with your assessment that the Catholic Church was
sometimes corrupted by power, I should note that most church
historians believe similar things happen to Luther after he began to
have secular authority, and to various other Protestant groups.  I
wouldn't want your observation to start a Catholic/Protestant war,
since I don't think that was the point you were making.  I'm a
Presbyterian, and I admire much of John Calvin's theology, but I'm
not sure I'd want to live in Geneva during his period.  --clh]
From: rreid@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ralph W. Reid III)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: thought for the day (11-07)
Date: 8 Nov 92 06:14:59 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico

Saturday, November 7:

     What is our hope or joy or crown of exultation-why, is it in
fact you?-before our Lord Jesus at his presence?  You certainly are
our glory and joy.  <1 Thessalonians 2: 19, 20>

-- 
Ralph.  N6BNO.  NOW LOOKING FOR A JOB!
Phone 1-916-345-9155.
lectromail- rreid@ecst.csuchico.edu.
I do not waste time expressing others' opinions!