HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: greatest conductors: why?
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Distribution: rec
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 00:31:41 GMT

alexander.inglis@canrem.com ("alexander inglis") writes:
: To: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
: 
:   >: Mahler First, and on and on....  Someday I hope to indulge myself with
:   >: his BSO Mahler Ninth.  I first have to be able to justify owning a third
:   >: copy of that work, though.
: 
: DB>No justification required. I own 17 versions....{
: 
: Now I know why you went into Computer Sciences ... to acquire the skills
: to catalogue all that Mahler! <g>

Not to mention to 50+ Eroicas....
: 
: And of all the odd ball coincidences, I was having a musicfest/dinner
: with a friend last evening and guess what a friend of his had just
: brought up from Buffalo as a season's gift?
: 
: That Virtuoso Furtwaengler Beethoven symphony set! Thanks again for your
: detailed commentary about this to me a few days back ... made me sound
: Data-like in my ability to conjur up so many facts on the spot!

Glad to be of service.

: 
: Do you have a favourite three Mahler 9ths in that lot? And ONE in
: particular falls especially below grade?

Greatest of all: LSO/Horenstein 1966 prom. Next favourites more
difficult - probably the 1938 VPO/Walter is next; after that there are
many which I would probably bunch together, including the Haitink,
Klemperer and 1961 Walter.

--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
From: m1wrp99@milo.uucp (William R. Palenske)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: mozart's ignominious deposit
Keywords: mozart burial
Date: 11 Jan 93 19:04:39 GMT
Organization: Federal Reserve Board, Wash, DC

i've wondered why mozart was buried in a common grave.
yes, i've heard his widow was left in straightened 
circumstances ( was he considered passe or was he 
just a bad businessman or both ? ) but i understand 
he had acquaintances who professed to admire him ( ornament
of the age sort of thing ) who seem to have had some money.
e.g., haydn.  surely, a modest plot / monument would not
have been that costly.  or did he expire when haydn was
abroad or something ?   what about van sweitan (sp?) 
was he still about ? couldn't he have stuck him in a
family vault ?  i think that had been done before.
sounds worth it to memorialize yourself even 
if only potentially.

i've also heard / read this story variously about
mozart or haydn which relates that a phrenologist
decapitated the corpse of haydn / mozart and that
the skull is floating about etc.  any truth to this ?

one more thing, how may other _famous_ composers are grave
unknown ?  obviously, the further back we go the more
likely. even so, ....  another question: who's the earliest 
composer whose burial site is known ?

-- 
   Bill Palenske            Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System
   m1wrp99@fed.frb.gov      Washington, D.C.  20551
   uunet!fed!wrp            DISCLAIMER: MY OPINIONS ARE MY OWN.
From: cbarber@bbn.com (Chris Barber)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Attention Chamber Musicians!
Date: 11 Jan 1993 19:40:15 GMT
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman (BBN)
Distribution: ne
NNTP-Posting-Host: litchi.bbn.com

I would like to hear from anyone in the Boston area who is
interested in playing/socializing with other musicians. I 
already know a number of people who I regularly play with
but hope to expand my network even more.  I hope eventually
to organize some get togethers to allow musicians to meet
new people to play with.

Please let me know if you want to be included and I will
send you a (short) questionaire.


-- 
Christopher Barber
(cbarber@bbn.com)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Subject: Re: So exactly what's wrong with Bolero, anyway?
Reply-To: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 02:12:56 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.035244.16097@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> clavazzi@nyx.cs.du.edu (The_Doge) writes:

>>Pardon my ignorance of classical music, but what is wrong with
>>Bolero?  I have heard only a portion of it, and it sounds alright
>>by me.. I happen to like it.
>>
>	There's nothing inherently wrong with it, I suppose; it just doesn't
>wear all that well after repeated hearings.  And if you've been listening to
>concert music for any length of time (over 30 years in my case) you just flat
>out get *tired of hearing it*!  Ditto for many of the "top 40 classics", for
>that matter.

Respectfully sung to "Bolero"...


	If.....
	You would like to know the easiest way....
	To drive someone really cra....
	zy all you have to do is play....
	Ravel's Bolery twenty times a day.

--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
From: korkosz@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu (Richard Korkosz)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Chopin 4th Ballade w/ Richter
Date: 13 Jan 1993 00:08:09 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu

Anyone out there heard Chopin's Ballade No. 4 in f minor played by Richter?
There is a recording of Ballades 3 and 4 with Richter on a DG mid-priced 
disc, which also includes some cello and piano music with Argerich and 
Rostropovich.  The 4 Ballade is taken live from a recital, and the 
performance is ASTOUNDING!  The interpretation is the most exciting I've 
ever heard, though it may not suit all tastes initially.  The playing 
itself is poetic, electric, and virtuosic, and free from the often sterile, 
calculated qualities present in many studio recordings.  After MANY
hearings of this performance, I am still blown to the moon every time by it!

Just wondering if anyone else has survived the amazing impact of this 
performance.  Newcomers are advised to turn up the volume and fasten your 
seatbelts... (you may also want to cut the treble a bit to reduce hiss, if 
that bothers you).

Rick Korkosz
Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
korkosz@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: omh@cs.brown.edu (Owen M. Hartnett)
Subject: Re: Best CD of Mussorgsky "Pictures ..."
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 22:46:40 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.221536.5229@colorado.edu> judd@wilkinson.cs.colorado.edu (Stephen Judd) writes:
>In article <1993Jan5.215131.2986@bme.ri.ccf.org> christoj@bme.ri.ccf.org (Judy Christopher) writes:
>>Please help - I need to get for my husband the absolute best CD of
>>Pictures at an Exhibition (Ravel).  What do you recommend?
>>
>>Ciao, Judy
>>
>>
>
>Telarc.  One of the first CD's manufactured.  Lorin Maazel, Cleveland
>Symphony Orchestra, if memory serves :-).
>
>If you can find a Russian recording, (or better yet, a Russian pianist
>playing the original), you might consider it as well.


I really love the old recording of Horowitz doing this, from a live
concert, I believe.  There's a sincere sense of pianistic wild
abandonment in it.  Don't know if it's been re-released on CD, but it's
certainly interesting.

-Owen
.

Owen Hartnett				omh@cs.brown.edu
"FAITH, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks
		without knowledge, of things without parallel."
			-Ambrose Bierce - The Devil's Dictionary
From: mrad@ugcs.caltech.edu (Michael Radford)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Best CD of Mussorgsky "Pictures ..."
Date: 6 Jan 1993 07:19:01 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: heckle.ugcs.caltech.edu

apter@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:

[on Pictures From an Exhibition] 
>The absolute hands-down best piano version is Sviatoslav Richter's
>on Philips.

Absolute hands-down?  Try Mikhail Pletnev on Virgin.

From: zornow@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Claudia Zornow)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:00:47 GMT
Subject: Re: There's nothing wrong with Bolero
Organization: HP SSD R & D
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical

dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks) writes (re Bolero):

> Ahem.  The placement of the trombone and saxophone solos causes an
> unwelcome (to these ears) interruption in the monotonic increase of
> tension.

Well, some people feel more tension when listening to a saxophone solo
than others do.  :-)

> The requirement for three extra percussionists in the last 6 measures
> (OK, I admit it, bassdrum/tamtam/cymbal can be handled by one player) is
> a logistical pain.
> ...
> Snare-drummers have a dislike for the feeling in the wrists after 17
> minutes.  That's if they haven't suffered muscle spasm and dropped the
> sticks by then.

Is Bolero ever performed with multiple snare drum players trading off,
or is that considered undrummerly?  That would at least give the three 
extra percussionists something to do.

Claudia
From: dozonoff@bu.edu (david ozonoff)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Do recordings of the following pieces exist?
Date: 8 Jan 93 19:06:40 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Stephen Judd (judd@wilkinson.cs.colorado.edu) wrote:
: Are there some good recordings of the following:
: 	Scubert
: 		Arpeggione

Try a recent recording by Yuri Bashmet on the viola. I like it
very much.
--
Dave Ozonoff
dozonoff@med-itvax1
Boston University School of Public Health
80 East Concord St., T3C
Boston, MA 02118
(617) 638-4620
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek)
Subject: re: Ravel
Reply-To: pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp. - Telstar
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:11:42 GMT

In article <C0Ez6I.GBM@ecf.toronto.edu> torenvl@ecf.toronto.edu (TORENVLIET GERARD LAWRENS) writes:
>Christmas seems to have netted our house a bargain basement recording of Ravel
>(2 CD's on the VoxBox label, the Minnesota Orchestra, under Svatislov Richter 
>[I think]).  Anyways, the performance and recording is singularly unimpressive
>(don't tell my aunt this).  I was wondering, is Ravel any good.  The only piece
>that I am familiar with is his orchestration of Mussorgsky's "Pictures..;" I 
>think it is chaotic and cacophonic and don't like it much (the solo piano I do
>like, very much).  Yet, just because of this bad recording, I don't wish to put
>Ravel permanently out of my collection.
>
>So, if Ravel is played well, is it worth it?
>
>Earlier,
>Gerard.

What a question!

Needless to say, Ravel's own music is considerably different from
the _Pictures_ orchestration (though that piece is recognizably
*orchestrated* by Ravel). It is certainly not for everyone, though
some of his pieces (and fragments of pieces) have found their way
into the public consciousness ('Bolero').

Ravel was fundamentally and most importantly a classicist of the
highest order. The strongest values in his music are perfection
and economy of form, and expressive restraint. His music is in
this way similar to that of Stravinsky and Webern, although
both of those composers are considerably more challenging
harmonically. It is very difficult to find even a single note
in a Ravel masterpiece that is wasted or unnecessary.

The harmonic language and surface finish of Ravel's pieces,
particularly the orchestral pieces, is extremely lush and polished.
Some of the superficial aspects of this style have at times been
used by Hollywood film-score composers, which has had the unfortunate
result of making the original pieces sound trite at first. It is
well worth the effort to move beyond this reaction. There is also,
of course, a rich body of masterworks for piano, and these
may prove to be more rewarding for some listeners who are put off
by the sound of the orchestra music. I might suggest _Gaspard de la Nuit_
or _Le Tombeau de Couperin_.

Ravel is probably not among the very top rank of 20th century
composers, when one considers the likes of Stravinsky, Bartok,
and a few others. However, some of his pieces are now nearly
100 years old, and have held up very well indeed.


Don Pajerek

Standard disclaimers apply.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek)
Subject: re: Conductors, interpretations and fluffy nonsense
Reply-To: pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp. - Telstar
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:50:32 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.005318.15578@hubcap.clemson.edu> epohl@hubcap.clemson.edu (A replicant) writes:
>   A few questions:
>
>   1)  What (and try to supply me with some objective ideas) 
>       is the difference between a "bad" or a "weak" conductor
>       and a "good" or a "strong" conductor?
>

A 'good' conductor must first of all have the requisite technical
skills (not all do). Secondly, a conductor must have to ability to
'interpret' a score; i.e., develop, on the basis of the written notes,
some concept of how the work should be played. For example, how
'Romantic' is Beethoven's 2nd symphony? Third, a conductor must have
the ability to convey this interpretation to the players such that
it can be realized in performance.

>   2)  Can a "good" conductor making a strong but unusual  
>       interpretation of a work come out sounding worse
>       than a "bad" conductor making a typical interpretation
>       of the same piece?
>

Sure. An idiosyncratic interpretation may be unlistenable to some,
whereas a routine performance might be merely boring.
  
>   3)  Why do some recordings get thrown into the bargain bin
>       at music stores for $3-$9 and others get placed in
>       a real shelf and are appraised in the $10-$19 range?
>      
>   Fluffy nonsense:
>
>   1)  Name the recording you think best exemplifies
>       how an interpretation of a work can really make
>       a good and noticeable difference.
>

Easy. Leonard Bernstein's first (CBS - now Sony) recording of the
Mahler 3rd symphony, particularly the last movement. No one else,
including Bernstein himself, has been able to duplicate (on record) the
impact that this recording has. I understand, however, that Bernstein
*was* able to do so in live performances during the same period.

The Mahler 3rd is a very powerful piece even in a routine performance.
Bernstein, however, in this recording, shows what the true potential
of the piece really is.


I am sure that there will be *plenty* of responses to this one!

>Thanx. 
>---Erik Pohl at epohl@hubcap.clemson.edu--------------------------------------- 

Don Pajerek

Standard disclaimers apply.
From: hbaldwin@mizar.usc.edu (Harry Baldwin)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Best CD of Mussorgsky "Pictures ..."
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:32:52 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <C0Ipu6.98A@ecf.toronto.edu> torenvl@ecf.toronto.edu (TORENVLIET GERARD LAWRENS) writes:

>I don't recommend it mainly out of personal taste.  "Pictures..," according
>to me, is the orchestrated imaginings of a person as he views paintings at a
>gallery.  Yet his thoughts are somewhat subdued, as he is in a quiet gallery.
>The cacophony of different instruments of the orchestra does not fit with 
>subdued thoughts; solo piano does.

Interesting. When a pianist friend years ago chastised me for liking the Ravel
(or any) orchestration and not recognizing the superiority of the original
piano version I replied that the difference between the two was like the 
difference between a painting and a pen-and-ink sketch, not better, just
different. I guess I love the Ravel because it was one of the first classical
pieces I was exposed to and my first experience with Ravel--in art class the
music was played while we made up our own sketches.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dwong@chopsuey.pico ( paganini's admirer )
Subject: Re: Musical term query
Reply-To: dwong@chopsuey.pico
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 00:01:02 GMT

In article 1ipu7jINNddm@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu, fernande@cps.msu.edu (Jose Roberto Fernandez) writes:
>Is there a word/term that refers to the ability to play some piece
>of music just by hearing it?  If so, what is it?
>-- 
>Jose Roberto Fernandez
>fernande@cps.msu.edu
>Computer Science
>Mich. St. Univ.

If the play back is absolutely precise, it would be called dictation.  If it is a whole
orchestral score in great length, it should be called genius!  (some great composers such as Mozart and Mendelssohn) Otherwise, it is call improvising, play-by-ear, or 
just plain "fooling around"... 


dw.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay)
Subject: Re: Pittsburgh Symphony Wins New York Times Award
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1993 12:40:04 EST

In several different posts, Chris Colby writes:

>I stand corrected, then.  My apologies.  I was told by a friend who works
>for the Met that the Fidelio was strongly panned by the papers.  Apparently
>I was misinformed.

Fine.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

>In the meantime, however, I checked with a friend of mine who works for the
>*Pittsburgh* symphony, and she *also* said the Pittsburgh Fidelio was
>panned in NYC.  So, let me just officially change my source to her and we
>can end this speculation about my other friend's character.  Thanks.

Does this mean you still retract, or does a second-hand hearsay source
that's closer to home mean the process of taking someone else's word for it
becomes somehow more reliable?  I don't think the character of any of your
friends is in question here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>In retrospect, my original post serves no useful purpose on r.m.c., and I
>may as well recind it.

I can't tell whether you've now de-rescinded.  But I agree about the useful
purpose part.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>Speaking of which, I don't know much about orchestras in other cities, but
>after living in Pittsburgh for a few years now, I've come to realize that
>this whole organization needs an enema, and I'm not just talking about
>performance quality.  In the future, I'll be putting my money elsewhere.

I would say if you intentionally jump into dogshit this deep in public, you
should wipe yourself clean in public.  Especially given that one of the
members of that organization is a prominent contributor to this newsgroup,
a simple "Forget I ever said anything" leaves something to be desired.  And
the way I read your paragaph, you are indeed impugning the players as when
you complain about performance quality.

Chris Ischay
chrisi@camex.com

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski)
Subject: Re: Gorecki's 3rd Symphony
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 22:52:35 GMT

referring to Gorecki, atmrjga@vax.oxford.ac.uk asks:

>Sorry if this has been asked before, but can anyone tell me the correct
>pronunciation of this composer's name? 

Sorry if this has been answered before, but it's pronounced

                   goo re ts kee.

      - The "e" in "re" pronounced as the "a" in "hay",
      - The "t" in "ts" is barely audible,
      - accent on "re".

Trust me:  Stefan Michalowski
           stefan@sunrise.stanford.edu


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: nguyen@informatik.uni-muenchen.de (Minh Tri Nguyen)
Subject: Re: New Year's Concert
Originator: nguyen@hephaest.cip.informatik.uni-muenchen.de
Organization: Institut fuer Informatik der Universitaet Muenchen
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 13:32:44 GMT


Keywords: 

Dear Wang Ming Hong.

Riccardo Muti was the conductor of the New Year's Concert 1993 in Wien
(Vienna), definitely not C. Abbado.
For all fans of Johann Strauss, Sohn we recommend the complete edition 
of his "Tanzmusik" arranged for piano in 10 volumes by Hans Schneider,
Tutzing.

Wolfgang, Martin and Minh Tri.
From: mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd Michel McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: French Baroque HARPSICHORD Music
Date: 11 Jan 93 16:17:32 GMT
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY

In article <10JAN199317171870@juliet.caltech.edu> Jessica Madow writes:
>In article <93007.094918RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET> Robert Haskins writes:
>>Where are there unmeasured pieces by Francois?  I didn't know he wrote any.
>
>Precisely my point!  I had not meant to imply that he (Francois) wrote
>any, (and pardon me if I did), but instead was pointing out one genre in
>which Louis left outstanding contributions and Francois left none (quite
>possibly because he mistrusted public ability).  Adapting and _notating_
>improvisatory freedom with only a bunch of whole notes and slurs is EXTREMELY
>interesting stuff, to some of us.  Also interesting is the expressive power
>of his harmonic language.

The New Grove states that Francois Couperin specifically abstained from
writing unmeasured pieces because he did not have confidence in his ability
for the genre.  I do not recall the exact citation, but it is rather
interesting that the unmeasured genre fell out of favor due to a lack of
confidence rather than a lack of interest.

Correspondingly, it is in unmeasured playing that one finds the chief
glory of the Arabic classical music -- a music (re-)formulated during
roughly the same period, and making use of similar chamber instruments:
lute, etc.

T. M. McComb
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: clavazzi@nyx.cs.du.edu (The_Doge)
Subject: Re: So exactly what's wrong with Bolero, anyway?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 03:52:44 GMT

In article <C0ILLv.EsB@world.std.com> kaya@world.std.com (Kaya Bekiroglu) writes:
>
>Pardon my ignorance of classical music, but what is wrong with
>Bolero?  I have heard only a portion of it, and it sounds alright
>by me.. I happen to like it.
>
	There's nothing inherently wrong with it, I suppose; it just doesn't
wear all that well after repeated hearings.  And if you've been listening to
concert music for any length of time (over 30 years in my case) you just flat
out get *tired of hearing it*!  Ditto for many of the "top 40 classics", for
that matter.
	Besides, Ravel himself regarded it as rather minor stuff, as I recall.

The_Doge
ObQuote:	"I wish the Government would put a tax on pianos for the
		incompetent."	-- Dame Edith Sitwell