HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 11:50:39 EST
From: Jeff Raven <JAR129@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: Awari Strategies
 <BxK09A.2L8@rice.edu> <1dvmo8INNcr@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>

In article <1dvmo8INNcr@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>, markd@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Mark Diamond)
says:

>Interestingly, both Awari games described on this column differ from the
>one that I have.  I posses an Awari set which came from Ghana where the
>game is played extensively and where gambling on the game is common.

>My set has not end containers, and is therefore simply 6 cups opposite
>another 6 cups -- the game beginning with 4 seeds in each cup.

The problem here seems to be that no one knows for sure what the actual
name for the game they're playing is. Your set sounds like the arrangement
for Awari. The game that most of the others are talking about is Kalah -
I posted a set of rules to it yesterday. Aside from both using cups and
pits and having a similar way of moving, the games have little in common
in the way of strategy.

Since this seems to be confusing a lot of people, maybe the Subject
line could be changed? If you're talking about Kalah, pehaps change it
to 'Kalah Strategies'.

Jeff Raven
jar129@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: bas@phys.uva.nl (Bas de Bakker)
Subject: Re: Eleusis, and _New Rules for Classic Games_
Organization: Institute for Theoretical Physics, Amsterdam, the Netherlands
	eastern.edu><DBH.92Nov11102845@wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk><1992Nov11.122137.10243@pel
	lns.alleg.edu><pquince.721508467@blacks><BxKyF7.4xw@cs.psu.edu>
	<If0Wab600Vp583dn4f@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:11:26 GMT

> The current set of rules (much improved, IMHO) is to be found in one of
> the new Martin Gardner books published in the late 80's.  (I think it's
> "Wheels, Life, and other Mathematical Amusements", but I don't remember
> exactly and none of the libraries around here have it.)

Not exactly, the new Eleusis rules have been published in 'From
Penrose Tiles to Trapdoor Ciphers', which is also a collection of
Scientific American articles by Martin Gardner.

Bas de Bakker.
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: flee@cs.psu.edu (Felix Lee)
Subject: Re: Othello
	<baljeual.721581011@uther>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 14:45:02 GMT

Alan Baljeu:
> Another fun strategy is to try to get as few squares as possible,
> until my opponent has to forfeit.

This is close to "mobility optimization".  The general idea is to
increase your available moves while decreasing your opponent's
available moves.  In the first half of the game, trying to get as few
pieces as you can approximates this.

David Levy's _Computer Games_ has a decent section on Othello
algorithms.  (I forget whether it was volume 1 or volume 2).
--
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: bjbisset@eos.ncsu.edu (BILLY JOE BISSETTE)
Subject: Re: What???
Originator: bjbisset@c00009-118dan.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: bjbisset@eos.ncsu.edu (BILLY JOE BISSETTE)
Organization: Raise A Great Old One Foundation
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 04:06:47 GMT


 Isn't this group just so amazing, there was such an outpouring of votes for
this group, now someones dream is here.  And I still can't figure out the
purpose of it.
-- 
----------bill the insane cultist, bjbisset@eos.ncsu.edu
Please make a donation to the "Raise a Great Old One" Foundation.
Everyone chant with me:  Ph-nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
                         Ph-nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!

Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: nwbernst@unix.amherst.edu (Neil Bernstein)
Subject: Re: E-mail Hnefatafl
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 05:55:52 GMT

Karl Anderson (kanderso@reed.edu) wrote:
: I've played a smaller version of this called Tablut.  It was hugely
: biased towards the King's side, and I can't recall the other side ever
: winning.  While I've never played Hneffatfafflf, I recall reading a
: book that drew the same conclusion.  The author suggested the
: following idea:

	The smaller the game gets, the tougher White's job.
 
: One player puts out a number of moves for the King to win, e.g. "King
: to win in 17 moves."
: The other player decides which side to play.  If the King's side has
: not won within the alloted time, it loses.

	That would be an interesting variation!  Only you'd have to play
several hundred games to discover what was a fair number of moves.  17 sounds
a little small for Haf'n'tafl (decided to go for the phonetic spelling!!)
	My girlfriend may study Old Icelandic soon to fulfill a Medieval
Studies major, so she'll be able to tell me how to spell it.

							- Neil Bernstein
						Struggling Classics Major
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: nad@cl.cam.ac.uk (Neil Dodgson)
Subject: Re: Move
Reply-To: Neil.Dodgson@cl.cam.ac.uk (Neil Dodgson)
Organization: U of Cambridge Comp Lab, UK
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 09:20:27 GMT

nate@cats.ucsc.edu (Nathaniel Douglas Renwick) writes:
>neilb@scs.leeds.ac.uk (Neil Bowers) writes:
>>boutell@isis.cshl.org (Tom Boutell) writes:
>>>King's pawn to queen's duck thirteen. Soprano.
>>Zebedee takes the staff car, with the candlestick!
>>Do not collect $200.
>Ahh... but having forfeited your right to pluck the chicken,
>I have put sleeves on my vest.  Wrong number.
Seven of Cups (permits removal of the laces from your shoes). B7.
--
Neil Dodgson,           | E-mail: nad@cl.cam.ac.uk       |    |
Computer Laboratory,    |                                |   -+-
Pembroke Street,        | 'phone: Cambridge (0223)334407 |    |
Cambridge, U.K. CB2 3QG |   International +44-223-334407 |    |
From: jwp@chem.ucsd.edu (John Pierce)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: USENET-NOMIC idiocy
Date: 12 Nov 92 00:54:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: network.1ds9vdINN7en
Organization: Chemistry Dept, UC San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: chedccf0.ucsd.edu

mjd@saul.cis.upenn.edu ("[*] The Power in the Streets") writes:
 > 
 >     Oh, great.  Four hundred nearly identical two-hundred line postings
 > a day.  

Maybe we all should just email each one back to their sender, with
a copy to postmaster at their site.

-- John W Pierce, Chemistry, UC San Diego
From: rpowers@panix.com (Richard Powers)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Abalone.
Keywords: abalone new game
Date: 11 Nov 92 10:38:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: panix.1992Nov11.103847.2400
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

Anyone here ever played Abalone? 

To those who haven't, I'll try to describe it.  The game is played on a
hexagonal board 9 hexes wide at its widest point.  Two players each have
14 marbles of a color (usually black for one side, white the other).
Here is the usual starting positions(@ = empty board space; o = white
marble; c = black marble):

    c c c c c
   c c c c c c
  @ @ c c c @ @
 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @
 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @
  @ @ o o o @ @
   o o o o o o
    o o o o o

  Players alternate _pushing_ one, two, or three of their own marbles in a
row.  (After a push, the marble(s) pushed will have shifted one space).  Thus:

                                           KEY TO EXAMPLES:    
          @ @ @ @ @ o o o @             [ @ = empty board position]
becomes                                 [ o = white marble        ]
          @ @ @ @ o o o @ @             [ c = black marble        ] 

If pushing these three marbles to the left.  

It is important to remember that no more than 3 of your own marbles may be
pushed at one time.

When opposing marbles come up against each other, you use your marbles to
push your opponents.  But you must have a greater number of marbles in a
row than your opponent.

	@ @ c c c o o @    Black can push.

	@ @ c o o @        White can push.

	@ c c c o o o @    Neither can push.  This is a block.

	@ c o o c c c @    Black cannot push here.  There must be an empty
			   space to push to.


What happens when you get to the edge of the board?  Here is where the
object of the game comes in.  If you push an opponents marble the is
already at the edge of the board, that marble is now out of play.  The
object is to push six of your opponents marbles off the board.

Just one other thing I should mention.  There is also what is called a
broadside move.  You can move up to three of your own marbles laterally if
all the new positions to be occupied are empty.



 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @
@ @ @ @ c c c o c
        ^^^^^

While in the position above the three black marbles could not push to the
right, a lateral move could be made upward.  Resulting in:

 @ @ @ c c c @ @
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ o c

If a northwest lateral move is made.



Well, I hope that is clear enough.  Having said all that, I'd like to know
if there are any experienced Abalone players out there who would like to
play in e-mail.  If there are people who would like to play for the first
time, while it would not be a challenge for me to play a newbie, I would
consider matching new players together if there is any interest in this. 
(Possibly playing your first game through me so there aren't any rules
mistakes when starting out).

If anyone has any questions about how the game is played, please feel free
to ask.

Abalone does exist as a marketed product, and can be bought for about $30
(last time I looked).



-- 
rpowers@panix.com                .sig file...             ...just a .sig file.
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: boutell@isis.cshl.org (Tom Boutell)
Subject: Re: Nomic (was Game)
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 02:34:21 GMT

Familiar with this one. Mao was a brief craze among the too-clever-to-live
set at the U of Delaware. (Notice I did not say "too intelligent to
live". (: )

-T

-- 
Tom Boutell, boutell@cshl.org

Clausthaler is the best non - alcoholic beer in the known universe.
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: positron@engin.umich.edu (Jonathan Scott Haas)
Subject: Re: The Biggest Number Game
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 16:17:10 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <BxKwrH.Ixo@math.uwaterloo.ca> tjdonald@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (Toby Donaldson) writes:
>> 
>> Who decides whose number is bigger? It might not be that easy.
>> For example:[10^(10^(10^(10^(^10^(10^10)))))] versus (10!)! or something
>> conceivably much worse that this.
>> 
>
>As you might well imagine, this sort of problem never came up with my six year 
>old brother! 
>
>A number specification rule could be added along the lines of this: the number
>you specify must be in terms of "descriptive" digits, ie. you could say "My
>number begins with 45 9's, and then ends with 15 million 0's", but you couldn't
                                               ^^^^^^^^^^
>say "My number is (10!)!" since that doesn't describe the digits explicitly.
>


You've got the same problem.

"My number begins with 45 9's, and then ends with (((10!)!)!)! 0's."

-- 
__/\__  Jonathan S. Haas         | Jake liked his women the way he liked
\    /  University of Michigan   | his kiwi fruit: sweet yet tart, firm-
/_  _\  positron@engin.umich.edu | fleshed yet yielding to the touch, and
  \/                             | covered with short brown fuzzy hair.
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: sos@oz.plymouth.edu (Steffan O'Sullivan)
Subject: Commercial Abstract Games
Reply-To: sos@oz.plymouth.edu (Steffan O'Sullivan)
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, N.H.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 19:02:30 GMT

I have an interest in abstract games, though they aren't the game of
choice for me, I admit.  I do like looking at pure mechanics, though,
which is what I consider abstract games to be.  You can then add flavor
as you wish: add space ships and aliens, and you have an SF game; add
wizards and elves and you have a fantasy game; add panzers or cavalry and
you have a wargame; call your points money and you have a market game,
etc.  So I consider it worthwhile to look at abstract games.

I'm curious about how many abstract games are available commercially.

Here (alphabetically) are ones I personally own, aside from things like
chess, checkers and go:

4th Dimension
Abalone
Arcadia
Icehouse
Kaliko 
King's Table
Lemma
Plateau
Scoozie
Timeline
Void

If you count random elements in a game as still belonging on this board,
then I also have, in addition to Backgammon,

G.O.O.T.M.U.
Nieuchess

I know of many other abstract games, but would like those who own them to
list what they have.

I'd be happy to discuss any of the games above, BTW.

-- 
  - Steffan O'Sullivan		         sos@oz.plymouth.edu
From: cd866@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Marc Sira)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: Game
Date: 10 Nov 1992 12:34:19 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cd866@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Marc Sira)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, jcc@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Jeremy Caplan) says:

>There is a totally awesome game invented by Douglass Hofstadter called
>NOMIC where the game consists of making the rules for the game itself..
>
>Can be VERY amusing...
>
>or VERY syupid, depending on who plays and what kind of mood you're in.
>
>jer

Reminds me of a truly old, truly obnoxious game called Nightmare #6. The
object of the game is to figure out the object of the game.

_Prisoner_ inspired, I suppose...

Marc

-- 
                                      30
From: cmspring@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Colin Springer)
Subject: Re: Is Othello Solved?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 13:55:48 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.173203.16980@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> urban@sideshow.jpl.nasa.gov (Michael Urban) writes:
>In article <baljeual.721581460@uther> baljeual@uther.calvin.edu (Alan Baljeu) writes:
>>keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:
>>
>>>Has Othello been "solved" by a computer?  That is, is the game simple
>>>enough that a computer can always play the "perfect" move?
>>>Or, it not, can a computer beat any human opponent at this game?
>>I don't know how good computers have gotten at this game, but Othello is not
>>yet solved.
>
>No, but they can look very deeply into the endgame.  Back in the
>PDP-11 Version 6 Unix days, I wrote a Reversi program that looked
>ahead through the entire (shrinking) endgame tree when there were (I
>think) eight vacant squares remaining.  Modern CPUs, and more
>sophisticated programming than I was doing, could probably improve
>this considerably.  I would hate to play against a computer that knew
>the entire game tree with twenty moves left...

Well, as far as I know the record for perfect endgame searches is in
the neighbourhood of 26 empty squares, using a hardware endgame analyzer
written by Clarence Hewlett (editor of the United States Othello Association
newsletter).  However, during the actual play most programs don't search
more than 10 moves ahead, and it's my feeling that the best humans still
possess enough extra knowledge to beat computer programs, although perhaps
the computers would win more often by "tricking" their opponents.  The
advantage one way or the other has never been decisively established.

Colin
From: baljeual@uther.calvin.edu (Alan Baljeu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: 3d chess?
Date: 11 Nov 92 14:42:33 GMT
Organization: Calvin College

benjie@quack.sac.ca.us (Android) writes:

>Is there a computer 3d chess game(of Startrek)?
>Benjie

Are the rules known for Trek chess?  Please post if you know them.

>-- 
>     BBB		Benjie Chen
>    BCCCB 		benjie@quack.sac.ca.us
>    BCCCB		No Axiomatic System Could Produce All Number-
>     BBB		Theoretical Truths, Unless It Is Inconsistent.
From: tdunn@ecst.csuchico.edu (Tim Dunn)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: Let's start off with TWIXT
Date: 11 Nov 1992 16:30:35 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: hairball.ecst.csuchico.edu


Felix Lee wonders when one gets to place bridges.

I believe you get to place them as they come into existence.  Thus,
if a player places a piece at the center of a circle of his/her pegs
(imagine a peg at each possible knight's move) then s/he gets to 
place 8 bridges.  

I seem to recall that 3 or 4 were the theoretical maximum that a peg
could hold, however....

-- 
Main's Law:
	For every action there is an equal and opposite government
	program.
From: dbh@doc.ic.ac.uk (Denis Howe)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: Move
Date: 12 Nov 92 09:48:22
Organization: Computing Department, Imperial College, London, UK
Distribution: world
	<1dscpqINNd30@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk
In-reply-to: nate@cats.ucsc.edu's message of 12 Nov 1992 01:42:18 GMT

boutell@isis.cshl.org (Tom Boutell) wrote:
>King's pawn to queen's duck thirteen. Soprano.

neilb@scs.leeds.ac.uk (Neil Bowers) wrote:
>Zebedee takes the staff car, with the candlestick!  Do not collect $200.

In article <1dscpqINNd30@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> nate@cats.ucsc.edu
(Nathaniel Douglas Renwick) wrote:
>Ahh... but having forfeited your right to pluck the chicken, I have
>put sleeves on my vest.  Wrong number.

Troglodyte (+2,-3,0) and double.
--
Denis Howe <dbh@doc.ic.ac.uk>
So Biggs, you're the idiot who bought all these IBM PCs.  You're fired!
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: hware@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Henry W Ware)
Subject: 4-D Tic-Tac-Toe (was: Re: What???)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:01:59 GMT

4x4x4x4 is a sure win for the first player in a two player
game (if you can remember enough).  

This game comes into its own when its a three player game ;^)

-Henry
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: boutell@isis.cshl.org (Tom Boutell)
Subject: Re: Move
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:40:13 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.204622.21234@pellns.alleg.edu> neilb@scs.leeds.ac.uk (Neil Bowers) writes:
>In article <BxKFAH.C9J@phage.cshl.org> boutell@isis.cshl.org (Tom Boutell) writes:
>>King's pawn to queen's duck thirteen. Soprano.
>
>Zebedee takes the staff car, with the candlestick!
>Do not collect $200.

I ogg your staff car with my destroyer, switch into third gear
and pass your ponies. Norman.

-- 
Tom Boutell, boutell@cshl.org

Clausthaler is the best non - alcoholic beer in the known universe.
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: garnet@borland.com (Garnet Chaney)
Subject: Re: What???
Originator: garnet@genghis.borland.com
Organization: Borland International
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 01:35:51 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.051935.20807@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> lmathews@lonestar.utsa.edu (Leanthony R. Mathews) writes:
>Abstract games?  hmmmm.
>Maybe this group is giving abstract ideas for future games. Yea
>Thats the ticket!

Let us know when the ticket goes to court. We'll all come, electronically of
course, to be character witnesses for you.
  
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: ry32@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (Vieser Christian)
Subject: Re: anybody know this game?
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, Germany
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:03:02 GMT

In article <BxIBAI.J2D@nic.umass.edu>, s9874203@titan.ucc.umass.edu (s9874203)
writes:
|> This game goes like this:
|> 
|> ***
|> *****
|> *******
|> 
|> There are 15 stones total in three rows. You and your opponent take some
|> stones in turn. The stones you can take each time must be adjacent and
|> in the same row or column, e.g.
|> 
...
|> 
|> You can take as many stones as you can in one turn.
|> 
|> The person who take the last stone wins/loses. 
|> 
|> What is a good strategy?
|> 

This game is called Nim and very old. It's a first player win for every
number of rows and stones per row. A perfect strategy was first published
1901 by an Harvard mathematician, Charles L. Bouton, and later on by
Martin Gardner in the Scientific American. 
You write down the numbers of stones per row in binary. Then you count
the 1's per column. Are these numbers even, you have an winning position
and else a loosing one. A winning combination is transformed to a loosing
one whatever the opponent takes. 
Example:
 *                    0 1     is an winning position.
 * * *                1 1 
 * *                  1 0 

Bye,
    Christian
From: morgan@dl5000.bc.edu (Morgan Stair)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: Game
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:24:33 GMT
	<BxHq8r.8D1@nic.umass.edu>
Distribution: all
Organization: Institute for Space Research, Boston College


>>There is a totally awesome game invented by Douglass Hofstadter called
>>NOMIC where the game consists of making the rules for the game itself..
>>
>>Can be VERY amusing...
>>
>>or VERY syupid, depending on who plays and what kind of mood you're in.
>
>   There were some bits at MIT about it.. I hung out but never
>played or saw it played. How is it played and can you post the
>ground rules?

NO.  I definately think posting ground rules should be outlawed... or
at least result in severe penalties.

-Morgan
--
***************************************
* Morgan Stair <Morgan@DL5000.BC.EDU> *
* BC / Institute for Space Research   *
* (617)552-8783                       *
***************************************
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: tjdonald@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (Toby Donaldson)
Subject: Re: The Biggest Number Game
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 01:14:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.191721.19173@math.utexas.edu>, akessler@bernard.ma.utexas.edu (Adam Kessler) writes:
> In article tjdonald@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (Toby Donaldson) writes:
> >So, inspired by the Mornington Crescent game, I propose the following rules
> >for "The Biggest Number Game" (as my brother calls it).
> 
> Who decides whose number is bigger? It might not be that easy.
> For example:[10^(10^(10^(10^(^10^(10^10)))))] versus (10!)! or something
> conceivably much worse that this.
> 
> adam

As you might well imagine, this sort of problem never came up with my six year 
old brother! 

A number specification rule could be added along the lines of this: the number
you specify must be in terms of "descriptive" digits, ie. you could say "My
number begins with 45 9's, and then ends with 15 million 0's", but you couldn't
say "My number is (10!)!" since that doesn't describe the digits explicitly.

Perhaps the best way (only way?) is to play it with a six-year old!

Toby
From: mjd@saul.cis.upenn.edu ("[*] The One True Cross")
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: Mornington Crescent
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:18:40 GMT
	<1992Nov10.203229.19889@random.ccs.northeastern.edu>
Organization: Eaters of Wisdom
In-reply-to: nik@scs.leeds.ac.uk's message of 10 Nov 92 20:32:29 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.203229.19889@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> nik@scs.leeds.ac.uk (Nik Silver) writes:
   Psychologically complex? No chance :-).

Psychologically complex is what you make of it.  

I say it's psychologically complex.

No joke here.
--

                And for to se, and eek for to be seye
Mark-Jason Dominus 	  			    mjd@central.cis.upenn.edu