HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jbradfor@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jeffrey Bradford)
Subject: "Divided Nation" Model
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 01:01:39 GMT

There is an article in today's Christian Science Monitor (pg 5) discussing
a possible new paradime for Taiwan's foreign policy.  Given Taiwan's recent
failures in the internation diplomatic scene, most recently the loss of
recognition by S. Korea, the author recommends a "Divided Nation" Model.
Instead of claiming to be the rightful rulers of all of China, and instead
of claiming that Taiwan should be a separate country, the divided nation
idea is similar to Germany before reunification and Korea currently: that
both leaders agree that the two parts should belong to one country, but until
some peaceful method of reunification can be found that the two parts be
ruled separately, each with their own diplomatic relations.

The big question is, of course, how the Beijing will respond to this...

Jeffrey Bradford
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
From: elelyc@nuscc.nus.sg (Y.C. Liang)
Subject: Re: Why don't you stay
Organization: National Univ of Singapore
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 05:03:54 GMT


In article <13SEP199210432939@phobos.ucc.umass.edu> s9874194@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194) writes:
>
>Sorry, Sir. 
>
>None of the above you mentioned represents SOVEREIGNTY. Hong Kong has
>all the above you mentioned, but nobody would say it is a independent
>country. Everybody knows that it is a colony of Great Britain. Most
>of the people in today's world know the problem of Taiwan: it is the
>result of the WWII and the cold war. Most people in this world would 
>not say it is a LEGITIMATE, SOVEREIGN country. 
>
>c.q.

The government in Hongkong does not think herself is a country or
she represents any country.  Therefore, although Hongkong has all of the
independant political(partially) and financial systems, we cannot call 
her a country because she does not like it.  We respect her idea.

The government in Taiwan does think she represents a country which is
called "Republic of China" in Mr. c.q.'s histroy book.  However, in his
history book, it says the "Republic" ceased to be exist after 1949.  Mr.
c.q. believes it because most of the countries in the world believe it.
However, we have to see if it is really true that the government in
Taiwan receives any governor or officials from any other countries(or
places).  Hongkong has her governor from UK and maybe later from
Beijing.  Because Taiwanese government can WHOLLY and FULLY operates its
political and financial systems without asking anyone else, it is called
the "SOVEREIGNTY".  SOVEREIGNTY has nothing to do with "been recognised
by others".  Please do understand the meaning of SOVEREIGNTY.

As the word "LEGITIMATE", it has something to do with "been recognised
by others".  Most of the countries in the world think Beijing government
is the "legitimate" government of China.  And "Taiwan is part of China".  
It does not mean "Taiwan or whatever in Taiwan, such as
government, is part of China", it means "I think or agree that Taiwan or
whatever in Taiwan is part of China", but if it is not, it is not my
business to say so.  Therefore, "Taiwan is part of China" is quite
subjective.  I have to say so.

Taiwanese government may say, "yes.  Taiwan is part of China, but not
part of the communist China.".  It is subjective again.




Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Republic of Formosa
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 05:58:06 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.231806.15537@wuecl.wustl.edu> yl2@cec2.wustl.edu (Yu-fung Liu) writes:

>Who care whether it is Portuguese or Spanish? California is part of
>the US now and forever!

But it does matter.  Can you imagine Germany renaming itself Alemania
(Spanish)?  Can you imagine Scotland renaming itself Caledonia (Latin)?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li)
Subject: Re: Language
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 14:16:31 GMT


In article <1992Sep12.121651.10209@medsys.rn.com>, bbs@medsys.rn.com (Public BBS System) writes...
>In article <9209101912.AA14967@multisys.com> rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) writes:
>>Don't know why people always want to talk nonsense.
>> 
>>In article <1992Sep4.214027.3726@beaver.cs.washington.edu> chou@cs.washington.ed
>> 
>>I hate my neighbor's dog. So I call it Chou.
>> 
>I believe Mr. Chou Pai is a TI supporter. If you don't agree with him,
>you can argue with him. But why insult your comrade? No wonder even
>some TIers put you in their kill file.
> 
>Chou1
> 

Mr. ROT bites (not argues) whoever does not fit into his mind. He does not
care his Rudeness or non-sense. I am not surprised he will eventually bite 
his fingers and keyboards.

When a person is insane, usually should be put into mental hospital but not 
be killed. American law?
From: ccliu@amy.next.com (Chang-Chi Liu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re:  Language
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:15:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.040407.11883@beaver.cs.washington.edu>  
chou@cs.washington.edu (Pai Hsiang Chou) writes:
> he spoke with a very heavy H"ol"o accent, obviously trying to
> use all the negative stereotypes to their extreme.
> This is outrageous, humiliating to a large group of the Taiwanese
> citizens (including many people, their parents/grandparents,
> people they respect), and they are reenforcing the shameful attitude
> that is killing these languages.  Tell me this is something encouraging
> or worth laughing.
> 

The above is an overstatement. I remember that for a while, many comedians  
mimic ShanDong accent (supposedly a warlord type).  When I attended  
JianZhong, most teachers were from China.  We used to make fun of their  
varieties of accent(behind their backs of course).  ZheJiang accent was  
immune to the attack for obvious reason. I think Taiwanese accent has be  
the "in" thing for years; evidence is abundant. 

People in HongKong can read written Chinese with "pure" Cantonese.  Most  
today's Taiwanese cannot do that with holo or hakka.  This somehow limits  
the language's expressiveness.  I dont think this is a problem unique to  
Holo.  Can people in Fujian, Guanxi, ZheJiang or ShangHai read newspaper  
completely in their own languages?  I doubt it. 

I dont think Holo will die.  Has Hakka ever been sanctioned as an officail  
language?  Did it die? I think a new form of Taiwanese will emerge, with  
some mandarin elements, just as it incorporated some Japanese expression.
From: rahman@ces.cwru.edu (Rahman A. Soomro)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Rain Relief Fund
Date: 9 Sep 1992 19:54:28 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: easy.ces.cwru.edu


Dear friends,

Recent rains in Pakistan have caused devastating effects on the 
daily life of the Pakistani people. Scores of people have lost there
lives and more than a million have been homeless.

	I appeal to you to help our brothers and sisters in need
and donate some money to help them. Please send your contribution
(tax deductible) with your name and also I request you to collect 
donations from any source -- your colleagues at work, friends, business
associates, customers, persons from any nationalities and backgrouds
to help people in trouble. 

	We are tying you help suffering peoples, who are suffering
from disease and malnutrition.

Please mail your contributions to:

Pakistan Rain Relief Fund
4105 Providence drive
St. Charles, MO 63304
USA
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: BSR and WSR
Date: 13 Sep 1992 14:59:06 -0500
Organization: Multimedia Information Systems Corporation, San Jose, CA                        TEL: (408) 436-8929            E-mail: info@multisys.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Sep13.140302.4170@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li) writes:
=
=Some TIers have been living in the U.S. for many years. To some of them, 
=the impressions about KMT and Taiwan still remain in the 50s and 60s. 
=Some of them may have been victims of past KMT political repression so 
=that they want to see any KMT-related to be destroyed in their life time.
=But their old KMT has gone into the history and they are still fighting 
=with it. Sad.
=
=Learn lesson from the past and look forward are probably more healthy 
=attitudes.
=

IMHO, I believe a national criminal trial will be enough
to justify that.

For example, who causes ROC isolated from other country and
who is continue to cause ROC's isolated diplomatic
relation with other countries.

This is certainly a crime being committed against the welfare
of the people in the Taiwan.
If we do not punish those criminals, those criminals, followers
and will be criminals certainly will keep committing crimes,
since they know there will be no punishment for their crimes.
From: onlit@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Drew)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: How to convert solar calendar to lunar calendar.
Date: 13 Sep 92 16:23:45 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <5711@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> rkwst+@pitt.edu (Raymond K Wong) writes:
>
>do you know every nineteen years your Lunar birthday will coincide with your
>'Solar' birthday?   Can anyone explain the mathematics in this?
>
>I think the Chinese are ingenious in coming up with such a system.  

I was told that the 19-year cycle does not always work; sometimes it would 
be off by one day.  My 19th b-day did appear to be the same day.

Andrew 
-- 
+-----------   @}-'--   -----------+  "To Serve, To Strive and Not to Yield"
|      Lee, On-Lit Andrew          |               - Motto of Outward Bound 
|                                  | 
|  email: onlit@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu |  "Your disability is your opportunity"
|  University of Texas at Austin   |               - Kurt Hahn,  
+----------------------------------+                 Founder of Outward Bound
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Language
Date: 10 Sep 1992 14:32:23 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Sep4.161456.14172@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.
EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
=In article <BtynsD.40p@multisys.com> rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) writ
es:
=
=>PS. The only river Han called 'river' is  'Yellow  river'.   Next
=>biggest  river they called it 'Gorn' (HaGa or HoLo pronunciation,
=>let those Mandarian speaking barbarians learn the beauty  of  the
=^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
=>real  Han)  Then  they call the next one as 'Ssui' or 'Zui'(zoo -
=>e), which is water in Hanzi.
=>Sorry, one way to increase the self-confidence of our mother tone is
=>degrade the oppressor.
=
=More like a racist statement.
 
I am not smart enough to invent that term 'barbarians'. You
should chack History books and KMT's or CCP's propagandas.
 
=
=And you say that you don't reject the WSR...
 
Now, here comes the tipical KMT syndrome. Did I mention
any word related to WSR? Mr. Nelson Lu probably is
a KMT's WSR, and he believe KMT == WSR. So if I attack
anything related to KMT, he automatically presume that
I was degrading WSR. Why is this? Why you want to take
blame of KMT's crimes? Or you really have somthing to do
with KMT's evil?

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Republic of Formosa
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 04:08:46 GMT

In article <79312@ut-emx.uucp> ifat555@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Ray Huang) writes:

>By the way, what's wrong with using ROC if what you want is TI not a 
>revolution? Chinese had TOO MUCH revolution already! Everybody wants
>to begin his own dynasty. What the hell is the difference between TIers
>and Mao? This is why I hate TI!

Well, revolutions can be good sometimes, you know...

But what we need is a velvet revolution, not a bloody one.
From: ccliu@amy.next.com (Chang-Chi Liu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: an armchair fighter
Date: 11 Sep 92 19:28:19 GMT

In article <9209102353.AA15950@multisys.com> rot@multisys.com (Republic of  
Taiwan) writes:
>Taiwanese will fight
> for what ever price they have to pay even destroy the
> Earth. Taiwanese will never let blood thirsty CCP get
> away once they start invading Taiwan.

Yes, I see you are fighting very hard with your fingers and keyboard and  
may be a can of Coke, in an air-conditioned room at San Jose, U.S.A. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li)
Subject: Re: F16 to Taiwan
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 17:10:27 GMT


In article <1992Sep14.231808.1946@bvc.edu>, yuqian@bvc.edu (Suicidal Freshman) writes...
>In article <1992Sep4.013929.21978@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, shao@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (SHAO CHUNG-SHANG) writes:
> 
>> i think we should buy the mirage 2000, too; if we can .  but, the
>> question is frence still doesn't say yes.
> 
>Dream on!  

It was a dream but is becoming true. :-)

FYI, Taiwan has signed preliminary Mirage-2000 purchase agreement with France 
several weeks ago. French government has asked Taiwan to sign the final 
agreement before end of Sepetember. Taiwan should have signed it last week 
but postponed under the pressure of US government.

>You know what you should buy?  F-22 and lots of them.

Thank you for the advice. :-)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li)
Subject: Re: Question about TI
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 01:23:32 GMT


In article <9209101909.AA14930@multisys.com>, rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) writes...
>In article <1992Sep4.155627.6823@engage.pko.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Ton
>g-Kang Li) writes:
>=
>=But recently I found that some of TIers often label people who have different
>=opinion as "Taiwanese Traitor" (Tai2Chien1), etc nasty words. Chiu Chuang-Hwan 
>=(former governor of Taiwan) is an example because of his support of indirect 
>=Presidental election. These make me wondering what difference between KMT 
>=character and TI character and whether after KMT is gone, other KMT-like 
>=will come.
> 
>What do you expect from politicians? Taiwanese politicians are
>no better than Bush and Clinton. That's why people has to whach
>tose politicians closely and minimize their power as small as
>possibe, because government and politicians are born to be evil.
>They will try anyway to be evil and people has to try ayway
>to prevent them and stop them.

Based on your past writings, I have been wondering if you are as devil as CCP. 
I guess you are right. :-)

>=
>=But I also feel confident about majority people on Taiwan. People these
>=days are much better educated and more politically independent than before. 
>=They will make a right choice. 
> 
>This is what I always said, let people decide their own future.
>Taiwanese need not KMT, CCP, DDP or whatever tell them what
>to do. Let's have a democratic system, a population vote,
>a fair election system and let people elect their own
>government, let people decide they want to change the name
>of the country or not, let people decide they want to
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>own Tibet, Mainland China and Mongolia or not.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hmmmm. Last week same guy proposed moving those KMTers who claim Mainland,
Tibet, to those places. I guess he changes mind. :-)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Question about TI
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 03:22:26 GMT

In article <BuHvzI.F9o@rlyeh.multisys.com> rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) writes:

>Face it, Cloudy (what a nice abbreviation!); by grouping all non-for-KMT (not
>just anti-KMT) people into either the Nationalist or the Communist camp, you
>are alienating potential supporters of KMT.  

Which is fine.  I have no qualms about extending KMT's support anyway.

>Taiwanese never wants to declare independence anyway, because
>Taiwan is an independent country. If you are a man, why you wanner
>declare you are a man. If you are a non-man, you certainly do
>not want to declare you are a non-man.  ;-)

So, since Lithuania was de facto independent after the failed Soviet coup,
it should not have declared independence?  Nice logic.

>I don't mind getting KMT to drop KMT's claiming 'KMT owns
>KMT's Tibet, Mongolia and Mainland China and preparing to
>recover and invade Tibet, Mongolia and Mainland China.'

Neither do I, but your tactic to paint non-TIers as KMT supporters will get you
nowhere.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: ghe@nyx.cs.du.edu (George He)
Subject: Re: News readers from ROT(Re: Hello from news reader in China)
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 15:38:10 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.104411.9076@nuscc.nus.sg> elelyc@nuscc.nus.sg (Y.C. Liang) writes:
>In article <63780007@acf3.NYU.EDU> yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , ) writes:
>>
>>You think Taiwanese can choose everything they want, that is wrong `
>>at the first place, you have to play the game according the rules, right?
>>just like the Southern states of the USA don't have the freedom of suceding,
>>Taiwan can not do that either. You might say the southern states
>>did choose sucede from the Union before the Civil War, but the
>>Union "chose" fight to keep the Union.
>>
>>Ze Yang
>
>People can and normally will choose what the best is for themselves,
>although they may not get it.  Just like you and me.  

Is Yang suggesting that
"You(Taiwanese) must sacrifice for us(mainlanders) for our great unification."?
Hmm..., I start to realize the fundamental attitude of a communist ---

        yours is mine. mine is not yours.

I also consider your "the Civil War" analogy is a false analogy.
Those southern states signed the USA constitution and agreed to join the USA
and become part of USA. That's why it's called the Civil War.
Dear Mr. Yang,

        Could you show me any signature of any Taiwanese representative
        officially elected by Taiwanese on your illogical PRC's constitution?

If not, please don't claim Taiwan as territory.
If you want to claim Taiwan as your territory, why don't you also claim
Vietnam, Korea, Japan, Lao, ..., and United States and Russia as territory?

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: g803355@phys.nthu.edu.tw (Li-Jui Chen(Juh-TZeng Lue))
Subject: 4
Organization: National Tsing Hua University (HsinChu)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 12:10:25 GMT
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: RE:a few question about taiwan
Date: 12 Sep 1992 00:16:12 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: a few question about taiwan
Summary: 
Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: Multimedia Information Systems Corporation, San Jose, CA                        TEL: (408) 436-8929            E-mail: info@multisys.com
Keywords: 

In article <BuFuKD.7wL@news.orst.edu> heathd@ucs.orst.edu (Du Shi-hua Heath) writes:
=I have a question about what percent of Taiwanese are born in Taiwan,
=and what percent of Taiwanese have mainland origins.

Does it matter? KMT believes and believed it is matter, do you?
It does matter how people recongize themselve.
If you does not deem Taiwan as a home, why bother arguing
with people saying his or her home is somewhere else.
Just go back to your REAL home.

=
=Another question is that if Taiwan put the independency in vote, how many
=Taiwanese would vote for it.

Such a strange question!
If Taiwan is not an independent country, then who is the
government on top of KMT?
If Taiwan is an independent country, why waste people's
time to declare independent again.
Your question should be,

Shoud people in Taiwan force KMT to drop KMT's claim of
'KMT owns KMT's Tibet, Mongolia and Mainland China and
KMT has been preparing for 40 some years to RECOVER or
INVADE Mainland China, Tibet and Mongolia'?

Should people in Taiwan elect their own president by
population vote?

Should people in Taiwan decide their own fate or let
KMT or CCP decides Taiwanese future?

=
=About Taiwan independency, I think it's all up to the people who live in
=Taiwan now.  So I want to know how many people will vote for it in Taiwan.



Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:12952 soc.culture.china:24993
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Language
Date: 7 Sep 92 19:02:36 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.taiwan
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <1992Sep4.214027.3726@beaver.cs.washington.edu> chou@cs.washington.edu (Pai Hsiang Chou) writes:
>I am not sure if it's the right attitude.
>There is nothing wrong with being "less Han" than you were taught.

One thing that Chinese history makes quite clear is that there is no
such thing as "pure Han."  



Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: elelyc@nuscc.nus.sg (Y.C. Liang)
Subject: News 8/9/92 
Organization: National Univ. of Singapore
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 11:06:59 GMT


CHINA REJECTS US EXPLANATIONS FOR SALE OF JET FIGHTERS TO TAIWAN

BEIJING -- China yesterday rebuffed a senior US envoy who came here to
try to avoid a deterioration in relations over the planned sale of 150
advanced US F-16 jet fighters to Taiwan, official said.

Foreign Ministry officials told Mr William Clark, US assistant Secretary
of State for Asian affairs, that the Chinese governemnt "refuted the
unjustifiable explanations of the US side," the Xinhua news agency said.

"The Chinese side pointed out that the US side has to bear all the
responsibility for the serious consequences arising from its wrong
action," Xinhua quoted foreign ministry sources as saying.

Mr. Clark flew into Beijing from Tokyo aboard a military aircraft for
the visit and immediately went into closed door talks with Vice-Foreign
Minister Liu Huaqui and Mr. Zhang Yijun, director of the Foreign
Ministry's North American and Oceania Affairs Department for three
hours, official said.

A Taiwanese official said in Manila yesterday that Taipei's purchase of
the F-16 fighters was intended to check any possible aggression by
China.

-ooOoo-

2 TAIWANESE GROUPS PLAN TO INVEST US$1.6 BILLION IN PHILIPPINES

MANILA -- Two large Taiwanese business groups were planning to invest
about US$1.6 billion in the Philippines in the next few years, Taipei's
chief representative here said yesterday.

Mr. Liu Po-lun, head of the Taiwan Economic and Culture Centre, told a
press forum that the Tuntex conglomerate was planning to invest US$1.1
billion in cement, textiles and other manufacturing industries in
Batangas province south of Manila.

The Far Eastern Group was meanwhile eyeing US$500 million in investments
in textiles, petrochemicals and other sectors in the northern
Philippines, including Subic Naval Base, Mr. Liu said.

-ooOoo-

WEATHER

Taipei - 25/33 C - Cloudy
Hongkong - 25/28 C - Rain
Beijing - 17/27 C - Clear

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan