From: jodybean@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (zaphod-)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Stereotypes? Objectifying? thoughts..
Keywords: Perceiving, and then recognizing.. tainted by experience..? don't know..
Date: 29 Jul 92 02:44:00 GMT
Reply-To: jodybean@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (zaphod-)

On the way home from work.. (funny, most of my thoughts seem to happen when I'm
walking to or from somewhere) ..I was running through some ideas in my head.

A friend of mine and I were talking the other night, and the subject had turned
to how everyone else around us seemed to be viewing sex.  We both agreed
that in
our minds, it's nothing more than a usually pleasant sensory overload shared 
between two people.. it was designed that way.  [Why else would we have such
a high concentration of nerve endings in our erogenous zones? And yes, I do 
realize that there are lots of consequences involved with this.. right now, I'm
just talking about the act itself.]             Anyway...
The main concern he was having was that most everyone who knew his girlfriend,
my mutual friend seemed to be constantly bringing this desire for a sexual
relationship in with her, and that she was feeling extremely objectified
by it..
   [ I can't blame her.. it's much like saying, "I want to be around you just
     because I need someone to play basketball with.."  or at least that's my
     interpretation of this dwelling that I'm seeing.]

So, with that in mind, I started thinking today, and what follows is
pretty close
to how the thoughts ran.

  "Ok.. sex is not a big deal if both partners understand it as such.. i.e. 
   they realize that there's other ways of feeling needed, there's other ways 
   of satisfying your wishes to be with someone, and so on..   basically 
   requoting the ideas I was reading last night in _Why do I feel like I'm 
   nothing without a man_.   [interesting book, I'd quite recommend everyone
   looking it over and considering it's statements as they could be in their
   lives..]

  "So, given that sex is not a big deal, what is it that keeps me from saying
   that sex would be alright with anyone I meet.. what blockades are set in
   my mind to this idea, and why are they there?  Furthermore, who would I
   find to be my ideal partner?

  "Well, _she_ would have to be slim, sort of long in structure.. (oval face,
   so on, so on..          [underline added as an afterthought right now..]

1)"WAIT!    What are you saying, jody?!    you're saying that you are only 
   considering _women_ that have certain physical features and nothing else..
   now you're objectifying, and I want to know why?   What says that we have 
   to limit ourselves only to a set guideline of features.. what says that
   the elf image you've acquired is the best way to go?  Is there some primal
   ego thoughts that say that this and this are good traits, and if you have
   sex, there's a good chance for kids, so you should search for those traits
   in the kids.. what's going on in your mind to already start setting up these
   fences and walls?!  
  "hmm.. pick this up in a second, there's something deeper here that should be
   examined..

2)"You just started describing someone who meets a certain set of traits.  You
   also have a tendency to greet certain people more often then others,
and right
   now the largest disparity in this is sex-based... i.e. you almost
always seem
   to say "hello" to any woman you pass on your walk to and from work..
but only
   half to 2/3 to the time on men.  You've admitted to yourself that
it's easier
   to relate to women, supposedly.. i.e. you tend to talk more in mixed company
   or even more so in the company of women..        why are you forcing these
   steps, and what's a good solution to stop it dead in its tracks?  How do you
   work around these stereotypes..

And now the thing I really want to talk about.. I won't mind following some of
the above, but I really prefer to think of it as background material to let you
get inside my head..

  "Well, if I didn't know the difference was there, then I should be able to 
   accept it as a new situation that should be explored.  I.e. If I was
deprived
   of my current senses, but allowed to still perceive the world in a way that
   doesn't associate past memory so directly with current experience, I should
   be able to interact better with this current experience.  Somewhere in this
   pathway between perception and recognition, we have to tone down the 
   implications left on this recognition bit.  I.e. we have to say that since
   this is happening, it reminds me of when that happened and that other past
   time I came across it, but those are just stirrings in the back of my mind,
   and I should still try to approach it as if I've never seen this before..

  "If that's the case, though, I need to evaluate how I see things for
the first
   time, and decide if I need to change it to suit the new use of it.  I.e., as
   far as I know, no one else has adopted this view.. seems like
everyone's acting
   on their past associations to me.. so I should consider a view that
would take
   into account their possible reactions.. I should be willing to draw from my
   past if need be, yet avoid doing so when I can.

So here's the questions that I sort of wonder about:
  1) How much does our past influence our decisions on the present?
  2) What are some good ways of breaking out of this objectifying/stereotyping
     that I sometimes fall prey to.. how can I tune my mind and way of living,
     so that I stop seeing the differences as things which get in the way of
     better understanding?
  3) At one point in this walk, I thought, "Gawd, life would be so much better
     if I didn't even know the information to begin with, that is I was
deprived
     of all senses."   What do you think of this thought?
  4) I have yet to have sex, I doubt I'll make it a point to try to have
it, and
     right now I'm not too concerned about that standing.  However, should the 
     situation ever arise.. when do I pursue it..?   Obviously, I think
I should
     wait until I find someone who agrees with my view, or at least make sure
     they fully understand that view before doing anything [and I should also
     clarify what that view is sometime soon and always make sure it's still 
     clear in my mind after that], but how can I tell that they understand that
     view, and *don't* subconsciously associate their view of it onto what they
     think my thoughts on it are, especially after the fact if it happens?
       My view sort of being explained way back at the beginning of this, btw.



Welp.. there you are.. a quick glance into the head I had on my shoulders when
I walked home from work tonight.  Don't know if it's worth posting, but
I always
like to hear everyone else's views (devil's advocate? Me? never.. ;) ) 
so I went
ahead and posted it..  I'd greatly appreciate seeing what thoughts this
stirred 
up in your heads, _even_if_they_aren't_related_.    (Why?  Because I'm heavily
into thinking about that thinking process, that's why..)
__.__.__.__.__
jodybean@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu   
"How much of our lives is just idle conversation?" -- bean thought # 11

Newsgroups: alt.callahans