HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: ANTI-CHINESE soc.culture.asian.american posts (Underdog)
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1992 20:30:19 GMT

In article <1992Apr2.034405.17826@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>In article <1992Apr1.205124.10591@daffy.cs.wisc.edu> kniaz@cat1.cs.wisc.edu (Joel Kniaz) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr1.015136.19050@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>>
>I picked this from soc.culture.japan: I do not know more detail than what I 
>wrote. The none-prosecution is resulted from: all jury were fellow G.I. too,
>It is hard to judge fellow sodiers gulty of any thing.

I read soc.culture.japan fairly assiduously, and do not remember this at all.
Could you be a little more specific here?

>I think the story is belivable:
>   1) Japan lost WWII, it was less likely that US would allow local jury for
>      G.I. casses; same situation in Germany, I even heard Germany is trying
>      to change the jurisdition;

This is wrong. In Japan, GIs accused of committing crimes while off-base are
turned over to JAPANESE authorities, are tried by Japanese courts and 
sentenced by Japanese judges. Jail-time, if any, is done in Japanese prisons.
The GI may, IN ADDITION, face a court-martial. The same is true in Germany.
I doubt that Germany is trying to change this. The situation you refer to 
has not been around for over 40 years (ie, since the time of the Allied
occupations of those two countries).

>   2) In the War with Panama, a G.I. was alleged by a fellew sodier of murdering      a Panama POW, the G.I. was nott prosecuted because of jury are all G.I.s
>      themselve.

Crimes against POWs are handled by a court-martial, not civilian courts. And 
the first step of a court-martial does NOT involve a trial in any event.

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - These opiini^H^H damn! ^H^H ^Q ^[ .... :w  :q  :wq  :wq! ^d  X ^?
exit X Q  ^C ^? :quitbye  CtrlAltDel   ~~q  :~q  logout  save/quit :!QUIT
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man help ^C ^c help exit ?Quit ?q CtrlShftDel "Hey, what does this button d..."
From: ikeda@vxcrna.cern.ch (IKEDA,M./EP)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Reclaiming our heritage (was: Oriental bias against Indians...)
Date: 13 Apr 92 14:19:00 GMT
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr12.190652.3187@Princeton.EDU>, fchen@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Franklin M. Chen) writes...
>In article <1992Apr12.174139.7084@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> hyx1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu) writes:
>>	I'm ignorant on this.  I just think that N>2 Asian population is
>>	small enough to be considered negligible in this discusion.  We 
>>	are talking about a general trend here; not isolated cases.

I am willing to bet that most Americans of Japanese descent under the age
of 40 are sansei or yonsei (N=3,4).  This is not an isolated group.

> 
>Somehow I have the feeling that it is precisely the N>2 population that
>is most worried about their personal identity.  Having grown up
>"American" in every possible way, except for their skin color--and the
>fact that people still treat them as though they were not authentic
>"Americans"--they suddenly don't know how to deal with this, and start
>trying to "reclaim" a long lost "culture" for the sole purpose of
>wielding it as a weapon against the whites who have rejected them.
> 

I believe that most of the N>2 generations take pride and participate in
many aspects of their heritage, but I don't know of anyone using their
heritage as a defense against those "whites" who rejected them.  In fact
I would say more tension occurs between N>2 and N=1 generations, i.e., the
many-generation residents have difficulty dealing with the new wave of
immigration, not other Americans.  Usually this occurs in areas where there
is already a well-established community (LA, SF, Seattle, Vancouver, etc.).
Anyone agree/disagree?

> ...
>	Franklin Chen
> 

-- Makoto
From: ikeda@vxcrna.cern.ch (IKEDA,M./EP)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: East Asian Ethics (was Re: Chinatown unsafe?)
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:28:00 GMT
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr10.061107.3439@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu) writes...
>In article <1992Apr10.013917.25994@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>[some stuff irrelavent to the topic deleted]
>>  Chinese culture is, in many
>>aspects, very different from either Korean or Japanese culture.  Please
>>know the difference, for _YOUR_ and your children's own good.
> 
>In my opinion, all East Asian Countries have similar culture.  The ethics,
>which governs peoples' behavior, are the same in China, Korea, Japan, and
>Vietnam.  Confucianism and Buddhism are the major or dominant 
>philosophy/religion concerning ethics in the area.  The only competition
>of any significance is Shintoism in Japan.

The point that "underdog" does not seem to get is not that the culture
are similiar, but that although the cultures are distinct, there are
good and bad elements in each of them.

You had said that you would write up an essay based on the opinions
given on this topic of whether one single East Asian culture exists.
What are the results?  There weren't many responses on s.c.a.a. but
perhaps you saw the ones on s.c.c, s.c.k, s.c.j, and s.c.v?

> 
>The common ethical ideals that I can think of now are:
>1. family solidarity; family (society) above self.
>2. awe and respect for antiquity; ancestor worship; observance of custom.
>3. obedience of authority and elder.
> 

Basically Confucianism.  But each area is affected by varying degrees.

>( There must be more. )
> 
>For this reason, East Asians are more considerate than American and Europeans.
>That's base on my observation of domitory living and other East-West 
>inter-cultural encounters.

Whoa... step back a bit.  I have heard arguments of this nature from both
sides, i.e., Europeans saying Asians are less considerate and vice versa.
They are always based on misunderstandings and anyway one cannot judge a
whole culture by one's local environment.  Besides, the three points you
mentioned above are applicable to Europeans/Americans (with perhaps the
exception of ancestor worship).  For examples of family solidarity, just
go out into Anytown, USA.  For respect of antiquity, all cultures are proud
of their past achievements.  For obedience to authority, just look at the
Germans and the Swiss!

> 
>====================================>.sig <====================================
>  Harry Xu  (KB2LHA)	   Internet:  hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
>  Interests (Member of):
>  Columbia University Amateur Radio Club (CUARC-<>-W2AEE)  *Founded, 1913*
>  The American Radio Relay League:  Amateur Radio >>---> A National Resource
>  New York Road Runners Club  -&-  Columbia University Road Runners Club 
>====================================> end <====================================

-- Makoto
From: gt6281b@prism.gatech.EDU (John Hicks)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: re Why is stereotyping bad? (Re: 'Asian Nerd' Stereotype)
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:57:28 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Apr10.225013.372@en.ecn.purdue.edu> oshiro@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Woodrow S Oshiro) writes:
>In article <kubjopINNjsr@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (I Shop therefore I AM!!) writes:
>>
>>Here's another one: Chinese food to whites consist of only three
>>dishes - sweet and sour pork, pork fried rice, and lemon chicken. 
>
>Waitress!  An order of egg rolls with that.
>

I'm not too sure that egg rolls are American.  In fact, I don't think they
are at all.  In China and Taiwan they're called spring rolls and they're made
of a different wrapping than the ones you find in most restaurants.  I 
always grew up eating spring rolls, I never could figure out why people
called them egg rolls.  There's not even eggs in them!


-John


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu)
Subject: Re: Why is stereotyping bad? (Re: 'Asian Nerd' Stereotype)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 03:54:33 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.160506.2014@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>In article <1992Apr8.234057.7103@oakhill.sps.mot.com> jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (James Pak) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr8.150211.1150@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>>>>>Notice how you couldn't think up of a negative stereotype for white people?
>>>>>Quick, name one that's generally accepted as "true" in this country.  Go on,
>>>>>give me one, quick, quick, quick...
>
>Gave you one, then 2 for each "quick".
>
	[Jim's talking about Polish stereotypes deleted.]
>ever were Europeans setting foot on what is now America. Ever heard of
>Shylock?
>
	[Jim asserting the absence of a racial stereotype of whites deleted.]
>
>I think that you don't want to admit it, but there are (oppressors of minoritiescomes to mind). Anyway, you asked for "even one" and you got several.
>
	[Mike and Jim having a "Yes there are" "No there aren't" discussion
	 deleted.]
>
>Try calling a white guy a "yuppie"; lots of non-yuppies will get offended by it.
>Call him/her a hillbilly, Nazi, etc. I assure you, most people will take
	[More of the same deleted.]
>
>There are stereotypes against ANY group of people. They have been around
>almost as long as recorded history and in fact, most white stereotypes are
>against other whites.
>
>Mike
>-- 
	[Mike's clever sig deleted.]

You two are talking past each other.  Mike's point is that there exist
negative stereotypes such that the butt of the stereotype is white.
Jim's point is that in the US, there is no pervasive stereotype of
white people as a race.

Let's look at Mike's examples:  dumb Polish, stingy Jews, coke-snorting
yuppies, redneck hill-billies, Nazis, racist oppressor of minorities.
OK, obviously, the stereotypical Pole, Jew, yuppie, hill-billy, or Nazi
is white.  Thus, Mike is right that there exist negative stereotypes
that affect white people.  But note that none of these stereotypes are
stereotypes OF white people.  If you imagine a stereotypical white
person in the US, you don't automatically assume he/she is a stupid,
Polish, stingy, Jewish, coke-snorting, yuppie hill-billy Nazi (or any
subset thereof).  The only generic anti-white stereotype I can think
of are the possibilities Jim mentioned (White people can't jump or dance.),
which are really just stereotypes of blacks, and Mike's observation that
IN ASIA there are anti-white stereotypes (lazines and body odor come to mind).

Therefore, Jim is also right.  In the US, the stereotypical African-American
male is a dumb athlete or a drug-dealer.  The stereotypical hispanic male
is a dirty, lazy illegal alien.  The stereotypical Asian-American male is
an anti-social geek.  And all the women get to be prostitutes.  There really
is no parallel for European Americans, positive or negative.

Thus, Jim and Mike are both right.  It's a chainsaw AND a manicure set!
						--Alan J. Hu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: sieh@quads.uchicago.edu (Lui Sieh)
Subject: Re: Will America fall?   teeter, teeter
Keywords: Chinese history
Reply-To: sieh@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 02:10:26 GMT

In article <22691@dog.ee.lbl.gov> yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang) writes:
>Harry Xu writes:
>
>>> 1. Chinese civilization is one of the oldest in the world.
>>> 2. The Yuan Dynasty was the largest empire ever existed, being about twice
>>> 	the size of the Islamic Empire and the Roman Empire (which is not 
>>> 	Roman, not holly, nor empire).
>
>I'm always surprised that Chinese would take credit for the Yuan
>Dynasty, a regime founded by the Mongols at the cost of an estimated
>35 million dead in China. In talking to friends from Korea, Russia,
>and Iran, I find that they regard the Mongol period as one of 
>destruction and horror. However, many Chinese seem to not only 
>downplay the fifty years of bloodshed (1220 to 1270), but regard
>Mongol conquests as their own. 

I would say both of you are correct.  The Yuan Dynasty was really a
Mongol conquest of Han China.  However, the Mongols became sinicized by
adopting the customs and the traditions of the conquered.  IN this
regard, they became Chinese and can be considered as such.  It is also
a part of Chinese history and a Chinese can take "credit" for it.



-- 
//Lui Sieh
Dum loquimur, fugerit invida Aetas: carpe diem, quam minimum postero.  
Horace, Odes, I.xi.7;	<-- "Why post to USENET?" -Brian O.  Indeed.
What about my opinions? ==>> /dev/null	or  sieh@midway.uchicago.edu
From: achin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: One more time on this (AA spokesperson)
Date: 13 Apr 92 18:40:25 GMT
Organization: Dept of Mathematics, Texas A&M University

In article <1992Apr13.021458.18826@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, hyx1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu) writes:
|> 
|> achin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin) writes:
|> >Linking together this topic with "AA ministers and churches," how
|> >effective do you think an "AA Jesse Jackson" would be?  I don't
|> >think AA ministers have shown the leadership skills that could
|> >unite and mobilize AA communities the way many African-American
|> >preachers have, especially here in the South.  Despite the
|> >rapid growth of AA churches, they're still not influential
|> >among AA's, mainstream churches or mainstream communities.
|> 
|> 	Just wondering:  How many (AA) ministers have u met personally?

Seven.  What is your point?

[irrelevant blanket statements about African-Americans deleted]

|> > no one in this group so far has
|> >ever seen an AA pastor of a mainstream congregation.
|> 
|> 	What?  Really?

Yes; I refer you to all postings on this thread.

|> 	I've met a few AA pastors even tho I'm not religious and only
|> 	attended religious servious once.  The pastor I met there was
|> 	from SF, he said he was invited to testify in the state senate
|> 	against legal recognition of homosexual marriage. (Summer, 1991)
|> 	Btw, he's something like "christian (?) testimony" (more emphasis 
|> 	on the Holly Spirit.)

And was he a pastor of a predominantly non-AA congregation?  What is
your point?

Harry, do you have a point when you post, or do you just do a random
brain-dump on every topic that catches your eye?
-- 
Andrew Chin    Dept. of Math.    Texas A&M U.    College Station, TX 77843
achin@math.tamu.edu   Probably not TAMU's exact opinions.   (409) 845-1924
                * Fighting racism is not a special interest *
From: upsi1@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (Mathew Waywe Yee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Lack of AA literary culture (was New topic!)
Date: 9 Apr 92 02:29:30 GMT

In <1992Apr7.200338.23412@Princeton.EDU> fchen@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Franklin M. Chen) writes:

>[stuff deleted]
>>>The moral?  Don't _whine_; _act_ instead. 
>>>
>>Get educated: there's a real act for you.

>This is the oddest sentence I have ever encountered.  It was obviously
>not written by someone who has a grasp of "Standard Written English." :-) I
>have stared at it for a full five minutes without being able to discern
>its meaning or intent.  I am familiar with such constructions as "get
>real" and "get a life," but I've never encountered "get educated."  As
>for "there's a real act for you," this is a totally new construction to
>me.  I wonder if it will prove to be a significant Asian-American
>contribution to the English language.  I know what "there's" means, and
>"a" and "real" and "act" and "for" and "you," but somehow the sense of
>the sentence does not come through to me.  Perhaps the writer meant
>"This Bud's for you"?  I've never heard of "getting educated" being a
>"real act."  Would someone translate this sentence into Evil White
>"Standard Written English" for me, please??

Gee, I guess that you don't have an education or an imagination.  This
is a slogan much like "This Bud's for you."  (BTW, the '?' should go inside
the quotation marks according to standard written english)
The "Get educated" part of the construction is a command with an understood 
"you."  The colon, ':', is a punctuation mark that is used ot call attention
to what follows.  The final part is a statement.  
It's times like this that I wonder if everyone here has an education.  It
really bugs me when people lecture others without sufficient firepower to
back them up.

--
Mathew Yee
upsi1@mcl.ucsb.edu              or                    psi1@engrhub.ucsb.edu
"This life is a test - it is only a test.  If this had been an actual life,
 you would have been told where to go and what to do!"
From: Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: One more time on this (AA spokesperson)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 13:19:09 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: na
  <1992Apr11.154532.16164@midway.uchicago.edu>

Hey, why not an Asian

- Rush Limbaugh
- David Duke
- Thomas Sowell
- Al Sharpton / Maddom
- Malcom X
- Eddie Murphy
- Sam Kinnison
- Bozo the Clown
- Louis Farrakhan
From: kniaz@cat4.cs.wisc.edu (Joel Kniaz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Flawed statistics
Date: 15 Apr 92 05:46:56 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.


	Every time we look at the success or failure of a particular 
	group, we must stop and look at all possible influences that
	may bias the data.  There should be absolutely no surprise that
	Indian and Chinese immigrants are doing very well in this country.
	First of all, immigrants tend to be self-selected, in that they 
	are highly motivated enough to go through the trouble of uprooting
	and changing their environments.   A more important influence on
	the statistics, however, may be the result of external selection.
	Why should there be any surprise that a population of immigrating
	professionals, academics, businessmen, or just plain wealthy 
	people will have a higher level of preparedness than the over all 
	population of ANY country.  I don't mean to imply that all members
	of these immigrating populations share any of these characteristics,
	but simply that the data will tend to be skewed significantly due
	to the influence of these factors.

     ______________________________________________________________________
    / "Lo, Though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death,       /
    \    I fear not!                                        ______________\
    /  For I am the biggest son-of-a-bitch in the valley." / My favorite  /
    \______________________________________________________\ expression...\
    / Joel Kniaz   kniaz@garfield.cs.wisc.edu  kniaz@jomby /      __i     /
    \______________________________________________________\_yiLballe(Mu)_\
From: upsi1@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (Mathew Waywe Yee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: AA ministers and churches
Date: 12 Apr 92 22:02:49 GMT

In <12172@tamsun.tamu.edu> achin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin) writes:
>1.  Have you ever attended a church service led by an AA minister?
>       Are you a member of a church with an AA minister?
>       Are you a member of a church with a non-AA minister?
Yeah, I went to church when I was younger.  The church was near the
upper end of Chinatown (SF) on Jackson, I believe.  The minister of this
particular church was Reverend Ernest Chan.

Skipped next two questions since I was rather young and uninterested.

>4.  Are services conducted in both English and an Asian language?
>       How does the content of the services compare?
The services were conducted seperately I believe.  As for content, I
--
Mathew Wayne Yee
upsi1@mcl.ucsb.edu              or                    psi1@engrhub.ucsb.edu
SATAN in 1992!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't believe in voting for the lesser evil.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:3463 soc.culture.japan:3451
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Asian Cultures inability to develop democracy
From: luke@wallaby.ee.byu.edu (David Luke)
Date: 8 Apr 92 13:18:49
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA
Keywords: interpretation, twits

In article <1992Apr6.160238.5099@acuson.com> miklg@acuson.com (Michael Goldman ) writes:
>luke@koala.ee.byu.edu (David Luke) writes:

[question about motivation for underreporting work deleted]

>       The boss has to show his superiors that he can get a lot of
>       work from his people for little money (he has a budget) so one
>       curries favor from him by underreporting hours.  Not currying favor
>       leads to poorer reviews, and smaller wage increases, and so
>       is counter-productive for the worker.  I have read of some anger
>       directed at the first engineers in a group to undrereport hours
>       because it pressures the others to do the same - "Watanabe can
>       get his work done in only 50 hours - why do you need 60?"

I guess this makes sense.  They know they're underreporting, and they
know the boss knows it, but they also know that it makes the boss look
better to have his section look efficient (which translates into less
wages that the section has to pay out!), and they know that makes the
boss' boss happy, and that makes the boss happy, so they do it.  Of
course, the boss is playing the same game with his boss, and so on
clear up the line.  The top brass like it because they get more hours
of work (though at lower efficiency) than they pay for.

Thanks for the response.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  David Luke                      Nakanu nara, koroshite shimae hototogisu    |
|  luke@wombat.ee.byu.edu           Nakanu nara, nakasete miseyoo hototogisu   |
|                                    Nakanu nara, naku made matoo  hototogisu  |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american