From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz)
Subject: Re: Recurring nightmares
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:08:30 GMT

In article <C0Gypz.KGF@twwells.com> anon-1534@twwells.com (Suzanna) writes:
>
>
>   I don't know the details of your dream, so I can't be specific, but a
>   better outcome would probably be you defeating what scares you or changing
>   it into something benevolant. I realize that such a change can be very
>   hard to imagine.
>
>I tried thinking of a positive ending, but I couldn't think of a way
>to change what happens into something good. Part of the difficulty
>might stem from the fact that I can remember the events that it shows,
>and so I would be denying my own memories, maybe? I'm not very good at
>this sort of thing.

I don't think it's denying your own memories to change the outcome for
a dream....You can remember that the outcome went a certain way
in the real world, and still decide that at certain times you'll 
let your imagination generate other outcomes.I'm trying to get at
an idea that memory has two sides--it's a reflection of the real
world and it's also an event in a mind. I guess what I'm suggesting
is that you can safely use your conscious mind to loosen up your
imagination so that your dreams won't be so awful. I'm guessing that
you're a serious and straightforward enough person that you'll keep
your grip on your actual memories.

>   I'm glad you're at least getting in some just-for-fun reading.
>
>Are those books I mentioned (Kafka and Peake, and now also Nietzsche)
>books that I should be reading? The people I've talked to about
>reading seem surprised by what I read, but I don't know what I should
>be reading.

I don't know what you "should" be reading, either--I think it's a good
thing for people to do what they enjoy unless there's some _very_ good
reason not to.

>   I'm not sure if there's a way for me to handle this as gently as I want
>   to, but there's nothing in nettiquette against apologizing a lot. It's
>   ok if you do. It just seemed to me that you were apologizing long before
>   you'd done anything remotely offensive, and I was sort of kidding. If
>   I'd seen your other post about how lonely you felt, I wouldn't have said
>   it. 
>
>I am sure you were right to tell me not to apologize; I need to learn
>how to behave properly.

I don't think I'm an expert on "how to behave properly". I'm a person with
a habit of giving advice.

>   That idea about apologizing and punishment sounds like it would be a 
>   better deal for the people teaching you than it is for you. (I'm not
>   saying that apologizing is always bad--I do it myself, but it seems to
>   me that you're keeping yourself in a one-down position.)
>
>I'm sorry, I do not understand this. What do you mean by "better deal"
>and "one-down"? I'm sorry, I am not very good with expressions like
>this - I don't hear them enough, or at all, to know what they mean.
>
I didn't think my paragraph was as clear as I wanted it to be--here's
confirmation. 

You have a model of behavior that's based on "getting things right". I'm
going to propose a model that says that a lot of what goes on between
people has *nothing* to do with "right", but rather with power relationships.
For various reasons, people want to control each other a lot of the time.
This can be from fear or anger or for material gain or because controlling
people is a rather creepy sort of fun. 

I believe that the people who raised you (excuse me--I can't remember if
you were raised by your parents) taught you to accept a submissive position
because it was convenient for them, not because it was good for _you_.

>I tried not to apologize in this post, but I did something wrong just
>above. I'll try next time also if I post again.

It's ok--this "not apologizing" thing was just a notion of mine for something
that might help. 

>  I believe that if you came from a dysfunctional family, you'll find
>   that almost everyone will treat you better than your parents did. 
>
>I'm sorry, I don't know if my family was dysfunctional; I don't have
>any basis of comparison - I didn't see how other families lived when I
>was young, and I go out just as much now.

This is a non-expert opinion, but I believe that you were severely and
unnecessarily frightened and bullied when you were growing up and that
good families treat their children with more respect. 

>   >Should this be conducted via email? I don't know if anyone else is
>   >interested in this reply.
>
>   I'd as soon keep this in the newsgroup, partly because I think that 
>   other people here will be interested (loneliness and feeling that 
>   other people are always right compared to oneself are _common_ problems)
>   and partly because I don't feel very sure about what I say to you,
>   especially the tone. I don't want to come off as so self-assured
>   that you feel squelched again, but there are things I want to say.
>   I'm hoping that some of the more nurturing people here will supply
>   a balance. 
>
>You have been very nurturing to me, as have the people who have sent
>me email. I thank you. I am glad I found this newsgroup. I am too used
>to being lonely.

Thanks---I don't want you to be in such pain, but I worry that I'm writing
to you in a way that reinforces your efforts to be "right". (I realize that
trying to be "right" is a strategy you depend on a lot.)

Nancy 
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery