From: xjam@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU (The Crossjammer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Debunking the standard myth was Re: Couple of thoughts..
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:29:42
Organization: University of California, Berserkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cork.cs.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: bih@bagheera.East.Sun.COM's message of 14 Aug 1992 18:55:22 GMT

>>>>> "Bennet" == Bennet Ih <bih@bagheera.East.Sun.COM> writes:
>> [ deleted stuff commenting on how lateral speed and jumping ability is important
>> for defense but not as important on offense ]
> xjam@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU (The Crossjammer)

> Organized basketball is too different a game from pickup to provide much
> insight into basketball skills. Especially defensively, where in a pickup
> game the concept is a dirty word. There's also very little concept of
> offensive plays, picks, offensivie positioning. On an organized team, you'd
> better be good at these things or the other team will eat you alive.

  Bennet> I'm sorry but I don't think you said anything to refute my point. If some one has
  Bennet> slow feet, he is a defensive liability, especially in the NBA where zones are 
  Bennet> prohibited.  For example in the recent NBA finals, whenever Jordan was matched 
  Bennet> up against Ainge, the Bulls just ran an isolation for Jordan. Ainge described this 
  Bennet> predicament as "When I saw that I just started calling for [defensive] help."  

I wasn't particularly trying to refute the points about defense, but the
assertion that you could observe this from playing lots of "pickup". Pickup
to me, in general, means arriving at a publicly accessible court and
joining 4 other people who I probably don't play with regularly against
another team composed of 5 other people who don't play together regularly.
No referees, call your own fouls, lots of ticky-tackying and cheap calls
are frowned upon.  The winner stays on, the challenging team is made up of
5 more people who happened to be waiting to play. I believe this to be
typical of "pickup" but I could be wrong. In any event, these type of games
generally degenerate into run and gun fests with little D, lots of
one-on-one O, and mucho hotdogging. Success at this type of game is not
indicative of further skill at an organized level. It sounds to me that
what you call pickup is different from what I call pickup so I have to
defer to you on that.

  Bennet> And the fact that organized teams run plays (we do too BTW since I play with the
  Bennet> same guys and we've entered several hoops tournaments) only strengthens my
  Bennet> point that a player with other skills can still be effective on offense even without 
  Bennet> being able to fly. But as I said, he cannot create his own shot. He has to rely on 
  Bennet> picks, ball movement and correct floor spacing to get a good shot. Someone like 
  Bennet> Jordan on the other hand can just about score whenever he feels like it. 

But Jordan is the exception rather than the rule. In fact, the majority of
black players in the NBA just like the majority of white players in the NBA
need their teammates to set picks, position themselves, and run the play
correctly for them to get a shot off. Ergo my claim that black players need
to be just as good at cutting, passing, and running the play as running and
jumping to be successful in the NBA. This has nothing to do with your skin
color. 

It's true that if you're not quick and a decent leaper you are a defensive
liability. But the *team* concept can overcome that. Chris Mullin is, in my
estimation, an awful NBA defender. But Don Nelson and the rest of the team
run their *team* defense well enough to compensate. Jeff Malone is, in my
estimation, an awful NBA defender. But Jerry Sloan and the rest of the team
ran their *team* defense well enough to compensate. It doesn't matter if
you're black or white the *team* concept is as much a factor in your NBA
success as your physical ability.


--
xjam@cork.Berkeley.EDU  	Fiiiive Thousand Boomin Watts...... -The JBeez

They can't come on and play me in prime time, 	    | Free Millipede coin op
Cause I know the time, cause I'm gettin' mine.	    | and House music at my
I get on the mix late in the night... -Public Enemy | place! Drop by sometime.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro