HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: surendra@endeavour.rutgers.edu (Arun Surendran)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Reservation, Brahmins and Kanchi Aacharya - I
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:25:17 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


Dear Friends,

	The VHP proclaimed that the Muslim invaders had razed down a
	Rama Temple thousand years ago and built a mosque on it. This may
	be indisputable.

	But when they said that, as a punishment, they would demolish the
	mosque and build a temple, the world was shocked ... I guess
	you were too ..... The very fact that one punishes people for
	the mistake their ancestors did hundreds of years ago is
	barbaric ......

	Consider the reservation system in the same light. It was a
	system designed to HELP the people who were deprived of a
	opportunity to be educated many years ago. IT WAS NOT DESIGNED
	TO DEGRADE OR PUNISH THE PEOPLE WHO'S FOREFATHERS WERE 
	RESPONSIBLE FOR IT. If it is used by some people to slander 
	the upper caste	 (NOTE : I specifically
	said upper caste, not Brahmins : I'll get back to this later)
	or used to disable them, then they have some serious thinking
	do.

	I come from a village background and having some contact with
	the village still, I know that casteism is still practiced
	there ..... not by Brahmins, but by people of other 'upper
	caste'.  They don't even allow the members of the so called
	lower caste to come near their locality.... So the blame does on
	lie on just the Brahmins ..... hence blaming them entiresdly for
	evils of our society would be would be a sign of fanatical
	hatred ..... the very thing we're trying to avoid !!

	Coming to the reservation system ..... in many cases, there are
	some sects of one community that belong to the forward class
	and some other sects that belong to the backward clas ..... I have
	personally read the list provided by the TN govt ... it is
	very confusing. What this allows is that people who belong to the
	'forward class sect' of that community can easily 'shift'
	gear and claim that they belong to the 'backward class sect'
	and take advantage of the reservation. The Brahmins seem to be
	only group which falls totally in the forward class. 

	As somebody pointed out earlier, many people who make use
	of the reservation seem to arrive in cars (i.e. don't need it).
	The real reservation should be in terms of economic criterion.
	A year or two ago M Karunanidhi proposed a scheme by which he
	'donated' 5 marks to all BCs ... I know a person who because of
	this landed up with 202.5/200 !!!!! 

	Bottomline : Anything done with negativism in mind and without
	thought is counterproductive .....

	AC Suren

	(contd in the next posting ......)
From: ganapath@plains.NoDak.edu (Prabhukumar Ganapathy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: KANCH ACHARYA - SATI ETC.
Date: 20 Aug 92 02:41:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.19794
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network


	I have lost the original article posted by Mr.Meenan Vishnu
	on this topic.

	As someone already pointed out DEIVATHIN KURAL was compiled
	from TALKS of Sri. Chandhrasekara Swamigal. May be the latest
	ones might carry Sri. Jayendhra Sarsawathi Swamigal's talks too.
	I am not sure. I would like to know how someone assigned this
	book to Junior Sankaracharya if this is not the case. Please
	tell us which volume has the teachings of Sri.Jayedhara Saraswathi
	Swamigal.


	Now My Request to Mr.Meenan :

		Eventhough I have read Deivathin Kural I don't
		remember each and every page of it. Can you
		please quote the Volume, Page where Acharya
		has supported SATI and ANIMAL SACRIFICE. I
		am of the opinion that Acharya would have
		never supported SATI. Please give us the
		exact refernece. If you can not tell immediately
		please tell me when it will be possible for you
		to give the exact reference. Who ever supports
		SATI is a BARBARIAN. No matter HOW Great He is
		otherwise. But as you have said "BRAIN DEAD" etc
		please give me the volume and page number. If
		you don't have the proof atleast accept it.

		I have very high respect for Sri.Chandrasekara
		Saraswathi Swamigal so far. If you can prove
		that he has supported SATI, I will definitely
		change my opinion about him.

		Expecting a reply just with page number etc.
		Don't say he said that here, there etc.

		If you don't want to write on the net just
		send me a E-MAIL.


PK
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: mvishnu@morse.uwaterloo.ca (m vishnu)
Subject: Re: KANCH ACHARYA - SATI ETC.
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 17:34:47 GMT

In article <19794@plains.NoDak.edu> ganapath@plains.NoDak.edu (Prabhukumar Ganapathy) writes:
>
>	I have lost the original article posted by Mr.Meenan Vishnu
>	on this topic.
>
>	As someone already pointed out DEIVATHIN KURAL was compiled
>	from TALKS of Sri. Chandhrasekara Swamigal. May be the latest
>	ones might carry Sri. Jayendhra Sarsawathi Swamigal's talks too.
>	I am not sure. I would like to know how someone assigned this
>	book to Junior Sankaracharya if this is not the case. Please
>	tell us which volume has the teachings of Sri.Jayedhara Saraswathi
>	Swamigal.
>
>
>	Now My Request to Mr.Meenan :
>
>		Eventhough I have read Deivathin Kural I don't
>		remember each and every page of it. Can you
>		please quote the Volume, Page where Acharya
>		has supported SATI and ANIMAL SACRIFICE. I
>		am of the opinion that Acharya would have
>		never supported SATI. Please give us the
>		exact refernece. If you can not tell immediately
>		please tell me when it will be possible for you
>		to give the exact reference. Who ever supports
>		SATI is a BARBARIAN. No matter HOW Great He is
>		otherwise. But as you have said "BRAIN DEAD" etc
>		please give me the volume and page number. If
>		you don't have the proof atleast accept it.
>
>		I have very high respect for Sri.Chandrasekara
>		Saraswathi Swamigal so far. If you can prove
>		that he has supported SATI, I will definitely
>		change my opinion about him.
>
>		Expecting a reply just with page number etc.
>		Don't say he said that here, there etc.
>
>		If you don't want to write on the net just
>		send me a E-MAIL.
>
>
>PK


I read the book 'theyvaththin kural' sometimes last year, borrowing it
from the Toronto Temple Library.  I think there are 4 volumes, of which 
I read only one.  This book was recommended by a friend  who took me to
this library.

From what I remember, I think I took out the Vol. 1.  The language was
a mixture of Tamil generously sprinkled with English and Sanskrit 
words.  I stopped reading further, when I read the fact that 
widows burned on the husband's pyre go to the abode of husband/heaven/etc
and the fact that the animal sacrificed also reach heavn.  I am sorry
I am unable to give you exact page numbers off-hand.  However, I will
try and furnish you with further information soon.

Please bear with me.

Meenan Vishnu
From: prashant@speedy.cs.pitt.edu (Prashanth Cannanbilla)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re:  Temples in US
Date: 21 Aug 92 14:54:37 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Aug19.183022.3419@menudo.uh.edu> aruna@tree.egr.uh.edu (Venkatachalam Aruna) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.152545.9624@infonode.ingr.com>  
>remote@control.b30.ingr.com (Remote Control) writes:
>> 
>> Do people ever  think  about the  future before constructing a 
>> temple?  Am I  missing  something   here ? And why is that all 
>> the temples are constructed and administered by South Indians? 
>> I have not seen  any  North  Indian  style temples (like Birla 
>> Mandir) in the U.S of A.

There are a few North Indian managed temples. A few that crosses the
mind are one at Pittsburg ( A Hindu - Jain Temple), which is Beautiful
and Very - Very Neatly Maintained , It's well funded and of course 
completly over shadowed by the other temple.
There is a North Indian temple in Cleavelad, Ohio., one in Albany NY.,
one in Troy, Michigan., I believe the one in Dallas is 50 % North
Indian style. 

I agree with the original article's concern on who is going to manage 
these temples in future? Probably it will end up like the old temples
in many part of India. 
--
My .signature has been truncated due to government cutbacks.
----------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: gopal@tamsun.tamu.edu
Subject: Re: A Critique of Tamil Cinema (sort of)
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:25:51 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.044052.11446@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> vaidhyan@cn.ecn.purdue.edu writes:
>An interesting info. about this "Randaar Gui" (a tamil writter!).
>His original name is "Rangadurai" and he shuffled the letters in 
>his name to get this name. He used to write lot of crime thriller
>novels. It is intersting to know that he is a 'historian of tamil
>movies'.
>
>BTW where did these articles by "Randaar Gui" on the history of
>tamil movies published?

  Yes it is true that the actual name of Randor Guy is indeed Rangadurai. He is
actually a lawyer by profession and he said that quite a few of the plots for
his novels came from the cases he encountered.He has also a directed a handful
of movies and written scripts for a few others. The saturday magazine section
of the Indian Express(madras edition) used to carry his articles on the old 
tamil,telugu,malayalam and kannada films of the 30's and 40's.He used to 
give all the details about the film,its story,and how it was made.

Gopal
From: rammohan@aludra.usc.edu (Karthikeyan Rammohan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: A THREAT from a boneless tiger in the net
Date: 20 Aug 1992 17:39:08 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

	In article <BtAKvK.34M@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> mvishnu@morse.uwaterloo.ca (m vishnu) writes:
>Dear Netters:
>
>The followers of Brahmanism has a very pecular method of suppressing 
>their opponents.  Some examples in history are:
>
>(1)  ...Many women were involved in the struggle, including Periyar's
>     wife. Some of the Bramin men went naked in front of them to shame 
>     them... 
>
	annathai, vishayatha muyusha solluppa.vetka padatha.Yen ella
brahmin pasangalaum poi ninnanga.? Yenna Periyaryudaya pondattikku
adangatha kama veri.periyar mattum eppadi porum.Avarukku than
anupavikka theriyathe.Athanal , ella kalaiyilum siranthu vilangum
brahmana makkalai azhaithar.jamaichutta ya ava.summa solla koodathu,
naan ennanu solven.
>
>Meenan Vishnu

	Mr (brain dead) Vishnu, if you want to write vulgar stuuf in
this newsgroup, (SCST/BCT/OBCT/MBCT.. some of the new names) , we can
also do that.Mr.Sundara Pandian avarkale, jalra pottu romba naal
aakivittathu. enge maraintheer?

ram
From: thiyagarajan@mims.enet.dec.com (RT)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Custome made Gita now available
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:33:06 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


For the benifit of netters like Balaji Kannan
---------------------------------------------------------------
Since there are many versions of Gita running around SCT, with a cyanide kuppi
inside like the official version of LTTE, the sinha-gita and the poor original
brand Krishna's gita we at the temple have installed a automated custom-made
post-script gita generator for the patrons use.

The system asks you very few questions to generate your own version of gita 
for a small fee. The question are

	1. Which community you want to blame? (If you choose brahmins you get
	   10% off)

	2. What is the severity level to blame the community you selected

	3. What is the language to use (mild to extra spicy)

After few seconds you will get the printout. If you miss any verses in the
printout you can always blame the brahmins (then what is the use of brahmins?)


RT
From: sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu (M. Sundaramoorthy)
Subject: 'aRivoLi'- a movement for total literacy
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 16 Aug 92 00:45:28 GMT

There were lot of concern expressed about the cultural deterioration 
in Tamil Nadu. There were different reasons cited for the present situation.
Religion, castes, political parties, individuals, print and visual
media etc. take blame from us. Each one of us point out only one  aspect,
and conveniently forget the others, sometime even defend. Though Mr.Nagarajan,
blamed it only on the 'Dravidian movements', he rightly pointed out that
we badly need a cultural revolution. I do agree with him. How to bring about
that is a question. Mr. Kathiravan calls 'thamizhannai' to give 'aRivoLi'
to her children. Can she respond to this cry, like the Goddess came to
feed 'nyanaap paal' to 'thirunyaana cambanthar'?. Can 'thamizhannai' accomplish
the mommoth task of educating crores of her children?.

We may not have any immediate solution in hand, but how long can
we wait for 'thamizhannai or a superhuman to come?. There are already some
signs of hope for the change. Not in the form of 'thamizhannai' or a super-
human, but through a mass movement. That is a movement for total literacy
called 'aRivoLi'. Though 'total literacy' may not ensure an immediate
cultural change, this is definitely a precondition for a society to 
become more cultured. And 'aRivoLi' seems to be poised to achieve at least this
precondition.

I will post a article from 'subamangaLaa' in a day or two on 'aRivoLi'.

M. Sundaramoorthy
sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: Venkatachalam Aruna  (Affable)
Subject: Re: seththa pAmpu  [was Re: Arupadai Veedugal!]
Reply-To: aruna@tree.egr.uh.edu (Venkatachalam Aruna)
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 00:32:50 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.235335.249@wuecl.wustl.edu> bs@wucs1.wustl.edu (Bala  
SWAMINATHAN) writes:
[stuff deleted]
> OK. You got me. I was also one of the "pAmbu adi gOshti" this time.
> 
> ellAm sEndhu indha viLAsu vilAsuranungalE.. en appan Murugan enna
> puNNiyam seidhAnO...
> 
> pAmbaRiyum pAmbina kAl -- pazhamozhi
> pAmbadithavan aRivAn pAmbadiththavan kAl -- pudhumozhi. :-)
> 
> S_Bala
 
  A humorous followup. I couldn't control bursting into laughter
when I saw this post. Well done Bala.

natpudan,
Venkat
--
venkat@jetson.uh.edu                  | If you love something,set it free.
venkat@menudo.uh.edu                  | If it comes back, it is yours.
aruna@tree.egr.uh.edu(NeXT mails okay)| If it does not, it never was.
(713)-923-7773(h) & (713)-743-4250(w) |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: mvishnu@morse.uwaterloo.ca (m vishnu)
Subject: Re: Uniform transliteration: vote pro/con
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 02:22:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.174119.1@draco.rutgers.edu> viswanath@draco.rutgers.edu writes:
>1) Should netters try to use a single uniform transliteration scheme?
>2) Which scheme should it be?
>
>My own answers are:
>1) Yes.  2) Adami.

Mine too.

Meenan Vishnu
>
>P.V. Viswanath
From: nraju@usc.edu (Narayanan Raju)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Reservation
Date: 17 Aug 1992 19:40:25 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: nunki.usc.edu






Many netters are of the opinion that there is no major differce between
the cut-off for FC and that for BC; then why have the difference
FC and BC. As per their arguments BC's have cuaght up with FC's
educationally; then, why have this discriminatory reservation at all.



Raju
raju@spock.usc.edu
From: nas_ng@jsc.nasa.gov. (Naga Ganesan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: 'cilETai' poem of Chola times
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:05:02 GMT
Reply-To: nas_ng@jsc.nasa.gov.
Organization: G.E. Government Services





         
                     ------------------------------
                     'cilETai' poem  of Chola era
                     ------------------------------


Following is a 'veNpaa' on Rajendra Chola, son of Raja Raja Chola. The great
Rajaraja built Tanjore Brhadisvara Temple. Rajendra was even greater in valor
than his illustrious father. He defeated Mahipala I, a Pala King of Bengal.
Rajendra's inscriptions have been found in Malaya and Burma. He built a
new capital at Gangai Konda Cholapuram.

The following poem is of 'cilETai' genre written in 1035 A.D. It compares 
Rajendra's generosity (koTai) to his palace.


    vaNpuyalaik kiizhppaTuttum vaanat  tarumalaintu
    maNkuLirum caayal vaLarkkumaam - taNkavikaik
    kongkaar alangkal kulatiipan engkOn
    kangkaapura maaLi kai

Meaning:

Rajendra's Patronage to arts and letters:
1) it puts even the wealth-producing rains to shame 2) Even the 
celestials are no match in giving gifts 3) Under his reign,
people lead a satisfied life; other kings try to emulate
his nature.



Rajendra's Palace at Gangaikonda Cholapuram:
1) Due its height, it is a barrier to the clouds.
2) Even the celestials have to walk on the earth to
cross it. 3) The cool shade generated by the building
is a shelter for many (especially, poets).



Reference: S. R. Balasubrahmanyam, Cozhar Kalaip PaaNi, Paari Nilayam, 1966

N. Ganesan
nas_ng@gese03.jsc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: crathina@ritchie.uwaterloo.ca (C Rathinavelu)
Subject: Tamizh-Mozhi Processing.
Originator: crathina@ritchie.uwaterloo.ca
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:05:01 GMT

  "The Ethological Approach to the Study of First Language 
Acquisition by Children", this chapter is written by 
R.Narasimhan, CMC limited, Bangalore in the text book
called "Advances in Speech, Hearing and Language Processing"
Volume 2, 1992. The data for this study were gathered by the 
author and an associate on parent-child interaction in the 
very early stages of language acquisition (child of a
monolingual family in Bombay whose mother tongue was tamil
was selected).

              I am surprised by reading this book because
currently scientists are narrowing down their research
mostly towards English,French,Chinese,Japanese etc...
languages for speech analysis. I hope in the near future
the "Tamizh-Mozhi" can be considered one of the best languages
in the world for fabricating the "Complete Reliable 
Multi-Language Man-Machine Communication Systems" (which
would allow robots to be given "Tamizh-Mozhi" spoken orders
or which would enable the interrogation of a database
by telephone etc.).

Antha Ponnana Nalai Arvamuden ethir-Parkum, 
C.Rathinavelu

"Speech is Man's most Natural form of Communication",
spoken communication with computers must be worth 
doing ..... is no longer sufficient.  - M.C.R.
From: bkannan@ha06.eng.ua.edu (Balaji Kannan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Message for Ravi Venkataraman.[Hit "n" now]
Date: 13 Aug 1992 11:49:43 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu



  My reply to your mail bounced back [twice]. I had
  something to add to what you said.

  Anyway, Thanks for chipping in!

  Send me your right address if you can.

  anbudan,
  BK
Xref: sparky soc.culture.tamil:1255 alt.culture.tamil:1217
From: rags@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Raghavan Jayaraman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,alt.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: `aRivoLi' - a mass movement for literacy - Part II
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:22:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Aug19.182221.5734
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.

Here is another response on this topic. In Pudukottai they have done it in
a more formal way. Here are some excepts from 'The Hindu' dt. 9th Aug'92.

Anyone is considered literate if he/she meets the following criteria:-
Read 30 words/min, write 7 words/min, know numerals upto 100, perform
simple arithmetc operations.

%literacy = # of literates/ # of persons above the age group of 7.

A district is said to have reached 100% literacy if the absolute % literacy
crosses 80%.

As always with any literacy programme, Pudukottai targeted the age group of
9-45 with concentration on women. A wide gap in literacy [~40%] between men
and women has been narrowed down to mere 5%. About 78% of women and 90% of
men have become official literates.

Interesting to note that a lackadaisical response changed to enthusiastic
one when the authorities announced that they will be conducting formal
exams  by the end of the programme and will be evaluating them with marks.
Most of them scored well in math but not in reading comprehension. The
evaluation was done by local headmasters.

It is to be noted that this programme was started in Mid'91 and most women
showed great interest.

-------------------------
My opinion:-
Till now all these programmes depend of govt. funding and volunteers to do
the job. With all that % of pervasive unemployment is it not possible to
hire young unemployed graduates ofcourse with monetary help from
interested?

 I know of atleast one person Mr. Ram Thukaram in Chicago who has helped
setting up mobile computer centers to help the kids in rural areas. 


raghavan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: rshankar@top.cis.syr.edu (Ravi V. Shankar)
Subject: Tamil movies vs. English movies
Organization: Syracuse University, CIS Dept.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 00:20:08 EDT

In article <BstoE0.E7F@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca (Srinivasan K.) writes:
>
>About movies, I find 1 in 100 movies to be quite good. Also some nice
>movies are suddenly corrupted by some 30 minutes of crap. The alternative
>is to find ways of improving the quality. Not all English movies are good
>either.
>
>KS

I agree with you. English movies have their share of crap too.

Personally, what I find blasphemous is people complaining about songs in
Tamil movies when they can sit and watch MTV hours at a stretch every day!

-- Ravi
From: rachada@icaen.uiowa.edu (Ramakrishna Chada)
Subject: Re: I HATE TAMILS (2)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 06:01:59 GMT
Organization: Iowa Computer Aided Engineering Network, University of Iowa

In article <1992Aug19.042533.23186@colorado.edu> manu@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Njan) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.205307.3598@news.uiowa.edu> rachada@icaen.uiowa.edu (Ramakrishna Chada) writes:
>>
>>While imposition of Hindi is unnecessary, obstinately refusing to open up
>>to a rich language, like most tamilians I know do, will definitely be a loss
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>for them.
>
>Hindi, a rich language?!! Ha ha.. That's a good one.
>
>>Ramakrishna  
>
>Njan

If you do not have exposure to hindi then your comment is irrational.
If you do have exposure to hindi you also have poor taste.

Another possibility is that you like hindi but are trying to kick up
an arguement. Likelihood is you will.

Ramakrishna

Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: rst@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (R. Sritharan)
Subject: Re: Reservation for temple priests
Organization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:42:32 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.125338.17216@ms.uky.edu> aras@ms.uky.edu (P. I. Arasu) writes:
>thiyagarajan@mims.enet.dec.com (RT) writes:
>>>Mr. Sundar writes
>>>>M. Sundaramoorthy
>>>>sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu
>>RT
>	In reply to RT's post:
>	From your posts I gather you are miffed at brahmins being 
>	affected by reservations. Fact is previously 96% of the 
>	population was complaining about being left out. Today 
>	every body is. 
>	In my class of 40 there were 5 brahmin students (I studied
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>	in govt engg college). So 4% of the population still enjoyed
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>	much more than 4% of the seats. So you talk as if brahmins 
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>	are completely excluded. That is bulls**t!
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What sort of logic (more like lack of it) is this ?  What makes
you so sure that this generalizes to all the professional colleges ?
You should realise that somebody else could easily come up with
an example-class where they were less than 4% brahmins; would you
then conclude that brahmins are being kept out ?

-- rst