From: an780@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Travis Grundke)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Comdex/Quicktime released for the PC
Date: 30 Dec 1992 15:13:47 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: an780@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Travis Grundke)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) says:

>In article <1992Dec14.140513.662@pcnntp.apple.com> Dale_Adams@gateway.qm.apple.com (Dale Adams) writes:
>>In article <92347.032705MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu> Mark 'Mark' Sachs 
>><MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>>> Yes, I've seen it. It scales the moving images to the size of the window,
>>> and dithers it if there aren't enough bitplanes for all the colors. This
>>> might be impressive if not for the fact that it ends up running so slow 
>>> (on a Mac Quadra!!) as to be essentially useless. The Amiga 500 I used to
>>> own animated full-screen up to sixty times faster than QuickTime on a 
>>> Quadra.
>>> I reiterate, sophisticated bells and whistles mean little when the 
>>> program does not accomplish its main function!
>>
>>No, no, no.  QuickTime does much more than what you describe.  Please 
>>re-read Evan Torrie's remarks:
>
>Oh, no.  Another Amiga wanna-be pumping up his mac!
>
 Don't even get me started on a bandwagon against the Amiga (but this IS
the advocacy group...) <grin>. Read on.

>>
>>"  Oh no, not again.  Please, please, please, read some QuickTime 
>>developer's documentation.  QuickTime does far more than just bitblt
>>moving images to the screen."  
>>
>>To which I'd add: Or resize them.  Or dither to a different pixel depth.
>>
>>If you really want a reasonable technical description of everything 
>>QuickTime entails, please follow his advice and reference the developers' 
>>docs.
>
>Again, what is the point?  Your own posting indicates that QT only BEGINS
>to provide entry-level animation (30 fps 320x240 ... w-o-w) on the top
>of the line macintoshes?  It is quite pitiful, actually.
>
 Once again we get our arrogant Amigophile with the "My Amiga can do
anything" attitude. Sure- it can do anything but become a major contender
in the market here in the states for sure. QuickTime has won countless
awards for software design and technology. I don't seem to see too many
awards for Commodore (or their blundering baffoonities). QuickTime can run
on almost ANY Macintosh at any selected pixel depth. IT allows users to do
cheap multimedia and is in NO way designed to be used for high end super
duper professional work. Its an ENHANCMENT. Keep in mind with the release
of the PowerPC in the fall of 1993 with new multimedia technology the new
PowerMacs will make the Amiga look like a toy.

>In other words, whatever it does, it needs to do less of it, because
>the underlying graphics a5rchitecture is antiquated and slow.  The
>QT facility fails to provide adequate animation on even the average mac
>and it is a statement about how little the Mac can accomplish in real-time
>work.
>
>>
>>Also, I believe your numbers are a bit off.  Using QT 1.5 I run 320 x 240 
>>animations at 30 fps on my Quadra 950 on a 16 bit/pixel screen.
>
>That may be something to be proud of on a mac using QT, but it
>is so far behind Amiga animation capabilities it is laughable.
>
 My my my, are we arrogant today or what? This has blown up into yet
another "My computer is better than YOUR computer" or "My daddy is gonna
beat up your daddy" argument. I will fully agree with you that the Amiga
can do video and animation better than the Macintosh can, but you are
placing QUICKTIME against professional authoring tools here, of which
QuickTime CAN do, but isn't designed to do. Take some of the new video
boards available for the Macintosh- full screen, 24-bit 30fps cards to USE
QuickTIme and make it the "next big thing"....QuickTime needed and still
needs time to mature, and 3rd party developers are scrambling to get their
video equipment released. There is a plephoria of stuff available to get
QuickTIme to run as well as an Amiga can do video work- just call RasterOps
and Radius.

>>I doubt 
>>your A500 runs 60 times faster than that.
>
>Just the fact that an 8 MHz 68000-based machine can do better
>at all that your $10,000 Quadra says it all.  And they call the
>Mac a GRAPHICALLY-ORIENTED MACHINE?
>
 Maybe some castor oil would help? First of all, ignorance is shown in the
above statement of a $10,000 Quadra. A Quadra 700 (68040@25mhz) in a 4/240
setup will set one back about $4199. A Quadra 950 (68040@33mhz) will set
you back about $6599 in an 8/260 setup. (RAM/HARDDISK). Yes, more expensive
than the Amiga- but which computer (or company) has a better chance at
existence 5 or 10 years from now. I think that in your vocabulary, because
the MAcintosh can't do 30fps in a Classic II configuration its not a
serious computer. Sorry, my fault. That's why so many businesses I see
using Amigas are out there. Get real. You sound like a PC dork now.

>>Running anims on your A500 
>>isn't doing what QT is doing.
>
>Very true.  The Amiga 600 isn't skipping frames, providing pitiful
>jerky animation.
>
 "And let slip the dogs of war." 

>>If I just want a simple animation player, 
>>I'll use something like MacroMind Director/Accelerator.  Using this 
>>off-the-shelf software with no special tricks, my Q950 will animate at 
>>over 90 fps on a 640 x 480 8 bit/pixel display.
>
>But it won't load up the next animation frames while SMOOTHLY displaying
>the next.  It won't run OTHER GENERIC MAC SOFTWARE in the background
>while animating.
>
 Its better than running NO AMIGA SOFTWARE in the background. If you're
doing animation work, you really wouldn't be wanting to do too much other
stuff. Oh I forget, your super-duper Amiga can do 15 tasks in the
background (including formatting two disks at once with no slowdown and
feeding starving Somali's at that) and animate at the same time. I keep
forgetting that while I animate I like to do spreadsheet work. (WHAT?)
 Granted the Ami can multitask well, but the rest of the world could care
less.

>And why don't we stop talking about Quadras?  It's always
>mind-boggling the number of times PC & MAC fanatics want to compare
>the animation capabilies of their QUADRAS and 486's to an Amiga 600!
>Notice they NEVER allow a 4000 (the flagship amiga) to enter the fray!
>
 Because Commodore isn't taken seriously- its their own damned fault.

>Hey one of you 4000 owners... how fast can you animate 640x480x8?
>
 Hey, 4000 owners- how many seriously taken business aps are there out
there? How many AMigas are in business? How many computers have a long
future?
>>I do believe that you've seen QT running dog-slow on a Quadra.
>
>That's big of you.  Anyone out there who HASN'T?
>
 Evidently you.

>>Heck, I 
>>can make any machine run slow if is set things up right (wrong?).
>
>I can make a mac run slow even easier than that... just turn it on!
>
 And I can make business people laugh by showing them an Amiga. ITs all
relative.

>>I've 
>>seen many Mac dealers demoing Quadras with the 040 cache off and running 
>>all software from a CD-ROM.  Talk about crippling the machine!
>
>That brings up the fact how computer-ignorant the average mac owner is.
>Did you know that for the system 7 tune-up, apple changed their plan
>and provided a full installer program for it, even though it just needs
>to be dragged into the system folder.  Seems that they discovered that
>60% of mac owners DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO DO THAT!  (reported in MacWeek)
>
>
>>It's easy 
>>to make things run slow.
>
>Only on a Mac.  Some games on my Amiga 3000, I can't get to slow down enough!
>RUn tons of processes, disable caches, run in chip mem, some of 'em are
>STILL too fast!
>
>>The trick is to do things right.
>
>Like recognizing Macs for the bloated, slow, antiquated toys they are.
>Then spend your money on a real engine, an Amiga.
>
>
-- 
Travis Grundke	 	    |  For More information about MacGames Digest,
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an780@cleveland.freenet.Edu |  E-mail Address. (c)1992-1993 Travis Grundke/MGD
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy