HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: woycke@smiley.mitre.org (Daniel Woycke)
Subject: Re: Joel/Maggie question
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 16:15:22 GMT

In article <7SEP199209132650@bestsd.sdsu.edu> bestr1070@bestsd.sdsu.edu (Alena) writes:
>In article <fcqn3q+.gordons@netcom.com>, gordons@netcom.com (Gordon Storga writes...
>><lalhckINNklr@aludra.usc.edu> mueller@aludra.usc.edu (Stephen Mueller) writes:
>>>I was wondering what everyone thought about the episode(s) in which
>>>Joel and Maggie share the hotel room, Maggie gets drunk and passes
>>>out before they finally sleep together, and then lie...
>
>Stuff deleted...
>
>>Personally I felt that the episode was an interesting statement on the
>>male understanding (or lack thereof) of the female.  If we get agressive
>>(Maggie wanted Joel to "have her" while she was asleep) then we are
>>uncontrolled animals who only think with our genitals.  If we are passive
>>we get accused of being gay, uninterested, or boring.  In this case
>>Joel respected Maggie and she threw a fit over it.  Don't get me wrong, I
>>enjoyed the humor of the episode.  I just think it was at the expense of a
>>serious women's issue - date rape.
>> 
>> 
>>Gordon
>
>
>Dear Gordon,
>I have to totally agree that Maggie's rage at Joel not "taking" her (which 
>translates to rape) was totally inappropiate for mass viewing.  If he had
>had his way with her while she was out cold, I would never have watched the
>show again on moral grounds (despite how much I would have missed my weekly HIV
>injection of NE.), but I do feel that there is an asspect that is being missed 
>here.  Maggie is a nut.  Joel is a nut.  The whole town is nuts.  For Maggie
>to have reacted any other way would have been too........normal.  I just 
>hope that the NE audience is wise enought to tell the that is not the way
>intelegent women think or want done to them.  
>
>Sitting here, waiting for new episodes,
>Alena
>
>PS- Offering to the saint who created this newsgroup.  Watch for me, I will be
>posting offten!  Good titings to all of you!
>___________________________________
>"Women want it.....               l
> they want it all the time.....   l
> they want it anywhere.....       l
> but, perhaps not with you."      l
>___________________________________
>
>Alena-----BESTR1070@BESTSD.SDSU.EDU

Alena,
Part of the point of the episode, IMHO, was to point out that women
want it both ways. I agree with what Joel did for Maggie in this 
episode, but I kind of disagree that if he had had sex with her, while
she were asleep, it would have been date rape. Rape generally involves
some sort of refusal, Maggie wanted to have sex with Joel, she had
said so. I am not saying that if he had had sex with her he would have
been right, but consent was given.

Thank You,

Daniel W. Woycke             |"I went out drinking with Thomas 
The MITRE Corporation	     |Paine..." -- Billy Bragg
7525 Colshire Drive (MS Z213)|"But I am still thirsty..."
McLean, VA   22102           |-- Arrested Development
woycke@mitre.org, woycke@smiley.mitre.org
From: kbowers@esrc1.uucp (Ken Bowers)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Re: re. Best Episode
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:55:40 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley


Interesting that so many of the episodes have come up in the 
favorite/best list. Perhaps because of the diversity of the characters
plus the open nature of the show's themes ... Too bad you all missed
the boat. Best episode? End of the first full year, when Maggie has
to go through Rick's funeral and the gay couple buys Maurice's place.
Joel gets to be an empirical hero by dancing with Maggie at the end
to prove no one is going to die by doing so. 
Funny and moving, the wierd NX logic works perfectly--one of the 
best television episodes ever. I doubt they'll top it.

Ken 
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: jps4800@tamsun.tamu.edu (John Parrish Schweers)
Subject: Re: Fandom
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:38:30 GMT

In article <xy&vH2v0i9@atlantis.psu.edu> cramer@vivaldi.psu.edu (Michael R. Cramer) writes:
>In article <1992Sep7.35404.1613@ms.uky.edu> jrt@omega.kcr.uky.edu (J. Randall Thompson) writes:
>>IMHO, Maurice and Hollings are OK, but how much more
>>unique can you get than a barefoot culinary artist
>>who lives as a recluse in the woods and is a
>>pathological liar (or is he?)? One vote for Adam!
>Yes! Yes! Yes! I'm surprised no one else mentioned him sooner...Adam and Eve
>are two of the best characters on that show....especially since they only
>show up every once in a while. (I mean, who wants to eat lobster every night?)
>

Make that two votes for Adam.  When he was first introduced on the show I hated
his character.  But then that's the reaction he is there to get.  As his 
character  grew, I started to like him and understand him better.  Why didn't 
Arkin win an Emmy, too? 
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: van@teal.csn.org (Claude W. Van Horn)
Subject: Re: Fling Thing
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 23:08:38 GMT

well NOW I know why I love the net!!
Thanks a BUNCH for the inside dope on the trebuchet!

Van!!

Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: nss3@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Noel Steere)
Subject: Re: Joel vs. Maggie:  The Juno Experience
Reply-To: nss3@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 22:06:58 GMT

In article <1992Sep08.203510.17121@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> bcarl@ccscola.Columbia.NCR.COM (Brian Carl) writes:
>Something I've discussed with a few people at work and about, with
>widely varying opinions.  Wondering what the net thought...
>
>With regards to Joel's "handling" of the situation between himself
>and Maggie after their trip to Juno:  was Maggie justified in her
>anger at Joel?
>
>To me, she seemed *way* out of line.  Having watched the concerned
>episodes a second time just recently, I counted at least 2 times when
>Joel attempted to "fess up", and Maggie would not let him speak.  Yet
>she still has the gall to be pissed when he finally is allowed to
>tell the truth.

Actually, I thought that Maggie was mad at Joel, not because he let
her believe that he had slept with her, but because she interpreted
Joel's "noble action" as meaning that he didn't think she was
desirable.


Not the most appropriate .sig, but...

Noel Steere                  |...of the Dave Rossing fan club
GM/Manager, New York Knights |Knights' Run Total: 467 Runs in 93 games
Internet Baseball League     |Projected Season Total: 813  Target: 1000!
nss3@midway.uchicago.edu     |HECTOR VILLANUEVA FOR PRESIDENT
                             |(Heck, the Cubs sure aren't using him!)
Make outs, not walks!        |OMAR VIZQUEL FOR VICE-PRESIDENT
(well, Joe *said* I said it!)|(Or at least a Gold Glove!) [Woof!]
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: bestr1070@bestsd.sdsu.edu (Alena)
Subject: Re: Reasons for fandom
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: San Diego State University - Dept. of Redundancy Dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 16:42:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep6.012238.15277@reed.edu>, ehudon@reed.edu (Elizabeth Hudon) writes...
>Why do you (plural) love the show? or, Are you drawn to the show because
>of a particular character or set of characters?
> 
>Curious,
> 
>Elizabeth (ehudon@reed.edu)

Liz, maybe try watching it?  Just a friendly suggestion.

Unsarcastically yours,
Alena
> 
___________________________________
"Women want it.....               l
 they want it all the time.....   l
 they want it anywhere.....       l
 but, perhaps not with you."      l
___________________________________

Alena-----BESTR1070@BESTSD.SDSU.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: lhartman@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lori L Hartman)
Subject: Elaine
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 20:57:47 GMT

Having missed the early episodes of Northern Exposure (before I was hooked), 
would someone please tell me about Joel and his romance with Elaine.  Was 
Elaine still in New York when Joel came to Cicely?  Please fill me in.

Thanks alot.

Lori
From: firenza@wpi.WPI.EDU (Timothy Mark Collins)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Re: Oddz n' ens
Date: 16 Sep 1992 02:51:03 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu

In article <5854@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> lmmst24+@pitt.edu (Lisa M Maslak) writes:
>>In article <BuLFE1.Gv@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>>
>>>It must just be me.  Has no one suggested the NORTHERN EXPOSURE - TWIN
>>>PEAKS connection?
>
>
>As I recall, when Northern Exposure first came on the air, the ads
>billed it as an alternative for the fans of Twin Peaks.  They emphasized
>the backwards, small-town, woodsieness, as well as the strange
>characters, hidden meanings, and general wierdness of the show as
>a way to appeal to Twin Peaks fans.
>
>-Lisa.
>

  And let's not forget the "Twin Peaks" nod NEXP once gave.  At the end of
one of the episodes, they had a very funny scene, near a scenic vista type
place, which had a waterfall suspiciously like the one in TP.  There was also
some dialogue I can't remember that poked fun at Twin Peaks.

firenza@wpi.wpi.edu












Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: kramersc@expert.cc.purdue.edu (Scott C. Kramer)
Subject: Re: Joel/Maggie question
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 05:07:07 GMT

In article <7SEP199211453385@zeus.tamu.edu> wkl5819@zeus.tamu.edu (LEVERICH, WILLIAM KENT) writes:
>It would be a mistake if Joel and Maggie ever did sleep together.  I think
>their love/hate relationship is what makes the show work.
>
h oh yeah, Kent....I agree with you on that......I think part of the show
would be ruined if that were to happen.....


>Kent Leverich
>WKL5819@ZEUS.TAMU.EDU 

 Scotto
 kramersc@expert.cc.purdue.edu

"Born an Illini,
 Boilermaker by grace"
From: kramersc@expert.cc.purdue.edu (Scott C. Kramer)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Re: Joel/Maggie question
Date: 7 Sep 92 17:09:30 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <1992Sep07.145204.17119@NeoSoft.com> jbrandt@NeoSoft.com (J Brandt) writes:
>In article <lalhckINNklr@aludra.usc.edu>, mueller@aludra.usc.edu (Stephen Mueller) writes:
>> Is Maggie entirely to blame? I wasn't really siding with either
>> (since they both lied) until Maggie left Joel on the couch.
>> 
>> Are there any women (or men) who actually feel that Maggie acted
>> anything but cruely? 
> 
>I understood why Maggie got so angry with Joel, but I do think her
>character went too far in being mean and inconsiderate.
>  
>I like the show because it doesn't follow a formula.  I can't predict how
>the episodes will turn out.  And the moose.  The moose is great.
>  
>(I grew up in Seattle, and all of those mossy trees make me homesick.)
>-- 
>Jaclyn Brandt
>jbrandt@NeoSoft.com
>--


Amen, Jaclyn, about what you mention that the show doesn't follow
a formula... I remember when I first watched the show, it was like, this
"is just totally jammin awesome....." and I wanted to watch it so bad that
I even made sacrifices so I could watch it......well, there's nothing like
watching a so-called Alaskan countryside(WA anyways, but still beautiful.
) 

Alesa, thanks for you and your boyfriend helping me learn about posting
over the UNIX phone.....couldn't have done it without you..

anyways,  I love the show and will continue to watch it if the opportunities
rise, esp. since Purdue has been in session for a few weeks all reayd..

Have fun,
Scott

kramersc@expert.cc.purdue.edu

"Hoosier by birth(Illini in this case),
 Boilermaker by the grace of God"
From: bole@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu (Greg Bole)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Re: re. Best Episode
Date: 7 Sep 92 22:00:35 GMT
Organization: HHMI/Human Genetics, Univ of Pa.

In article <1992Sep7.105559.7395@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, 
jcatesii@nyx.cs.du.edu (James Cates III) writes:

> Someone began a thread about fave episodes. I held my response
> while I pondered it for a few days.

I've only seen the latest season, but one episode just reached out
and grabbed me like no other:  The "Jack London" episode where Maurice
and Holling recreate the plots to "White Fang" and "The Call of the Wild".

Brilliant episode...wonderful characters...  (And I can't blieve people are
bashing Chris!  He's the greatest!)

"I don't like when people bluff me...it makes me question my perception
of realtiy!"

Greg Bole                                    "The ants in the grass, they
bole@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu                  were just doing their thing."
                                            Matt Dillon in _Drugstore Cowboy_
From: miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Ollie North on NE?
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:44:19 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Somewhere--I don't know where--I heard that Ollie North was going to
do at least a cameo on NE.  Did it ever happen?  If it did I missed
it.

My vote for *one* of the best episodes: the one where Shelly's old
friend shows up and stays for a few days.  During one of their talks
Shelly's friend finishes a story with what has got to be one of the
best lines of all time: "Being glamorous isn't all beer and roses..."
(quote probably inexact)

********************************** +.............................+
*- Ken <miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>* :All opinions expressed herein:
*There is no privileged position.* :are my own and are not to be :
*	-God, Derrida, others    * : attributed to my employer   :
********************************** +.............................+

Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: mm459504@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Michael Miller)
Subject: Re: Joel/Maggie question
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1992 20:41:37 GMT
Organization: Colorado State U. Engineering College

In article <7SEP199211453385@zeus.tamu.edu> wkl5819@zeus.tamu.edu (LEVERICH, WILLIAM KENT) writes:
>It would be a mistake if Joel and Maggie ever did sleep together.  I think
>their love/hate relationship is what makes the show work.
>

I think I'd have to disagree there, Joel and Maggie's subplot is one of 
the most visible themes in NX, but I don't think it would in any way affect
the show if they either didn't go to bed or they shipped Joel back to NY.

He is an important character, but there dosen't seem to be any one person in 
this show that is the MAIN character (except the Moose  B)) the story is about
the whole community (and a warped one it is at that)

My voets for best shows:

"Come on Cicely, lets fling something..."
and for the retrospective, tear-in-the-eye, philosophical look at life:
"Paddle-to-the-Sea"

Mike


--
"You seem ah decent fellow.  Ahd hate to keel you." - I. Montoya
"Well, you seem a decent fellow.  I'd hate to die." - Wesley
mm459504@longs.lance.colostate.edu
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: hankdtank <hank@waffle.sns.com>
Subject: Re: The Length of Joel's Stay in Cicely
Keywords: Joel
Organization: Systems'n'Software, Fremont, CA  94539-6669
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 08:39:29 PDT

schmunk@spacsun.rice.edu (Robert Schmunk) writes:

> On the subject of when Joel arrived in Cicely, sometime around June
> 1990 would be appropriate. It's my recollection that in the "Spring
> Break" episode, when everyone's libidos were running in overdrive,
> there is a comment made that Joel has not had sex since he arrived
> in town ten months before. Perhaps someone with a videotape collection
> could confirm.
> 
> -- 
> Robert B. Schmunk <schmunk@spacsun.rice.edu>
> SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 USA -- (713) 527-4939

 
Did Joel (finally) have sex with his former fiance Elaine in the episode 
"Russian Flu" (when the whole town gets sick, and Marlyn save the day with 
a moose dung mixture) before he got sick.  He was already there for a few 
months, so if he had given a time during "Spring Break," then ad on a few 
months for the "Russian Flu" episode, and then ad a year for "Wake-up Call" 
and you should have a pretty good idea how long he has been there.  I gues 
it is about 21-24 months.  TWO YEARS!!!
 

----
hank@waffle.sns.com  (hankdtank)
Systems'n'Software Free Public Access BBS --- (510)623-8652
From: egedi@ahwenasa.cis.upenn.edu (Dania M. Egedi)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Tough, independent women (was Re: changing the world)
Date: 15 Sep 92 18:40:21 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Sep15.155747.26667@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, ljohanne@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Leila J Johannesen) writes:

|> While I'm babbling, I wanted to express my opinion that it bugs me
|> a little bit that film or tv doesn't highlight `tough, independent women'
|> often unless they're lesbians. I like the NE as is, but I lament
|> what appears to me a general problem in the entertainment media, and
|> our society that straight women are often not cast in roles of
|> `rugged, individualistic achievers' and `heroes.'

Which brings up one of the things that bugs me most about the series:
what they did to Maggie!  At the beginning, she was very tough, outspoken,
independant.  A good role for a single woman making it on her own (and doing
quite well at it) in the 'wilds of Alaska'.  Then, *then*, they made her all
soft - insecure, whiny, virtually neurotic when it came to men.  Very unsure 
of herself and what she wanted.  Did they feel that they had to do that to 
make a relationship between her and Joel feasible?  Why?  WHY?!?!?

And now comes word that she's going to be even more 'feminine' in the next
espisode - taking to wearing skirts and whatnot.  *ugh*  It's hard enough
watching her now.  Why can't they let her be strong and independant and have
*that* appeal to guys?

 - Dania
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dania Egedi, IRCS Research Programmer		egedi@ahwenasa.cis.upenn.edu
Room 400C, 3401 Walnut St.			work:  (215) 898-0365
Philadelphia, PA 19104

"One sign of an impending nervous breakdown is the belief 
that one's work is terribly important"

Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: tad@ssc.wa.com (Tad Cook)
Subject: Re: Best Episode
Organization: very little
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1992 22:52:03 GMT
Keywords: life, flinging, cow, piano 

In article <Bu8vBu.Fqv@news.udel.edu> dmccoy@brahms.udel.edu (Don McCoy) writes:
>
>	One more thing (all philosophy aside):  I *loved* watching
>that piano fly!  How often do you see something like that, even on
>cable?
>
One reason I loved it was that way back in 1968 not far from where they
filmed that scene with the piano and catapult, a local underground
newspaper and community radio station staged a "piano drop", where
they dropped an old piano from a helicopter for reasons similar to
Chris's.  I wondered at the time if the writers had heard of the
1968 KRAB/Helix Piano Drop.


-- 
 Tad Cook     |  Phone:  206-527-4089  (home)     |   MCI Mail: 3288544   
 Seattle, WA  |  Packet: KT7H @ N7DUO.WA.USA.NA   |   3288544@mcimail.com 
              |  Internet: tad@ssc.wa.com        or...sumax!ole!ssc!tad   
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: dianem@boi.hp.com (Diane Mathews)
Subject: New season?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
Distribution:  usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 17:28:52 GMT

When is the new season for NE going to start (did it already)?

Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: dslee@netcom.com (Donna S. Lee)
Subject: Re: It on during football
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 18:28:07 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

karenr@geronimo.sps.mot.com (Karen Ramondetta) writes:

>In article dslee@netcom.com, dslee@netcom.com (Donna S. Lee) writes:
>>I can't stand it anymore!
>>
>>It's not Kreaton or Kreton for Crissakes! It's cretin!!@!!
>>-- 
>> Donna S. Lee // EC Technology // dslee@netcom.com


>You're a "Joel" aren't you...

>:)

Yes, actually, I am, which made me just think of something (at
least personally) amusing: My ex-husband's one big complaint
about the show is Joel. He says he just drives him nuts! If only
JOel were around to show us our personality differences *before*
we got married!
-- 
 Donna S. Lee // EC Technology // dslee@netcom.com
From: shirley@fdr.jsc.nasa.gov (Bill Shirley [CSC])
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: The Flying Man
Date: 9 Sep 1992 20:55:25 GMT
Organization: Software Technology Branch - NASA/JSC
Originator: shirley@fdr


In article <92252.163110C09615ST@wuvmd.wustl.edu>, C09615ST@wuvmd.wustl.edu writes:

	[...]
 
> A few notes/questions about this episode:
>   1) Who plays the Flying Man?  I saw him before in the otherwise forgettable
>      Steve Martin film "My Blue Heaven" as an FBI agent.  He strikes me as a
>      tremendously talented physical actor.

	[...]

He was also in Popeye (w/ Robin Williams, Shelly Duval - great flick!)
-- 
Bill Shirley		|  ``Computer Science is not about computers any 
shirley@fdr.jsc.nasa.gov|	more than astronomy is about telescopes.''
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: velour@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Michelle Wiener)
Subject: Re: Joel/Maggie question
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:23:47 GMT

In article <laq0t5INNn4h@notrees.cs.utexas.edu> varvel@cs.utexas.edu (Donald A. Varvel) writes:

>"Women want it both ways"?  *Maggie* clearly did, which as far as
>I'm concerned simply makes her an uninteresting character.  You
>can't let an essentially cruel person get an emotional hook into
>you.

I have to disagree with you there, Donald.  I don't see Maggie's actions
making her an uninteresting character (unless you thought her uninteresting
beforehand).  I think they add a new dimension to her character.  Up until
that point, I thought I had her pretty much figured out, as much as a person
THAT confused can be figured out.  Then she turns around and says something
which seems to contradict everything she stands for, or should I say, what the
audience thinks she SHOULD stand for.  My, how human of her.  More on this
below.
>
>Rape does not necessarily involve some sort of refusal.  If that
>were true, drugging a woman into oblivion beforehand could never
>be rape.  Rape involves lack of consent at the moment of the act.
>Consent was not possible at the moment the act would have taken
>place, since Maggie was out cold.

Very, very VERY good point.  I have no idea what the writers were trying to do
with this one.  It still bothers me, but hey, nothing's perfect.  You may say
that Maggie's line of thinking isn't realistic, but isn't that imposing your
(that'd be a plural "your") own set of beliefs and values ona fictional
character?  I think it -is- realistic, because there's no way you can totally
read a person's character and know exactly how they're going to behave.
>
>I think it's a shame the writers had to destroy what up to that
>point had been a perfectly good character.

How 'bout this suggestion:  Maggie is an extremely sexually frustrated person.
Can we all relate to that, or what?  *grin*  Frustration makes you act kooky
at times.  Before she passed out, she was READY to have sex with Joel.  She
WANTED to.  I admire Joel's character for not taking advantage of her, but I
can understand how, to Maggie's mind, unconscious sex would have been better
than NO sex at all.  Plus, her self-esteem was hurt because she thought Joel
didn't find her attractive enough... which leads to the equally kooky and
cruel behavior at the end of that episode, when she shows up at this cabin,
gets him to tell her he wants her, and then leaves.  How come no one's
mentioned THAT part yet?  :)


"Are the synapses not firing?"

Michelle

Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp