From: nbt@napcc-hp.cvm.uiuc.edu (Nguyen Thanh Binh)
Subject: Re: Doing business in Vietnam (was Re: Embargo & Normalization ( second poll ))
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:56:52 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.025144.11282@equalizer.fps.com>, luong@fps.com (Luong Nguyen-Duy) writes:
|> 
|> Hello Garrick, Tri, Binh and other good fellows,
|> 
|> First I'd like to thank Binh on the stories about Nguyen Trung Hieu .
|> I, too,  despise such actions.
|> 
|> When posing the question about people who do business in VN I was thinking
|> more about people who honestly doing business.  Those who  provide
|> some services and gain profit from their services.  Let's take an example.
|> I hear that they have alot of popular electronics gadgets in Vietnam; such
|> as TV, VCR, Casettes, etc.. .  Well, where do these stuff come from ?
|> Where are the parts to fix them when they do not function properly ?
|> It is very safe to say that most of this come from overseas.  OK, I live
|> in Vietnam. I am an entrepreneur .  I set up a shop in VN to sell
|> TV, VCR, etc... .  I have friends/relatives in the States.  I tell them,
|> "you go buy me this and that so I can sell them and make my living in VN".
|> Of course I'd have to bribe people at the airport, seaport to get the goods
|> into VN, but that is the way it is in VN.  After few years, my business
|> grow big,  lots people want TV, VCR, PC, etc... .  I tell my friends: "you work
|> for me.  You buy the goods, send it to VN and I'll pay you commisssion".
|> I set up several shops all over Saigon.  I employ people (who otherwise
|> may not have a job).  I deal with high level government people so that my
|> business can run smoothly -- this, too, is part of business.
|> 
|> So here I am, bribing left and right to government people so that my business
|> can run smoothly;  so I can make my profit, have luxury life and also provide
|> employments to people.  Am I a scumbag ?  Why ?
|> Yes, I have to pay taxes to the Communist government,
|> and that keeps them alive.  But is that so bad ?  Because if I had
|> not done anything, I, my family probably would have been starved to death and
|> the people who I employ might not have a job.  I am a capitalist !!!
|> And all my associates in the US also make profit too.
|> They're not out to cheat and steal from people like Mr. Nguyen trung Hieu
|> is alledged to do.  They're just businessmen.  And due to them that I
|> have the goods to sell to my customers.
|> Now, I have a son, he is a rich kid ( because his dad, that's me :-))) is
|> rich).  He looks around him and said to me : "Dad, we're rich and others
|> are poor.  And in school they do not teach me anything worthwhile.  And
|> I can not criticise the governemnt and blah blah blah..." .  I'd tell
|> him "Son, the only reason you can sit here and say those things is because
|> we have money !  Otherwise, you'd be too busy selling cigarettes on street
|> corners to worry about things like this".
|> 
|> What is wrong with this ?
|> 
|> So the bottom line is that if people are too poor, they would not care much
|> about democracy, freedom and other nice ideas.  Only when their bellies are full
|> then they start to think more about other stuffs.  That is why, I
|> think doing business in VN are good for the people overall.
|> Only when the profit money are taken out of the country 
|> then there are problem.  That is why I feel sad when all
|> these big Japan and Honkong companies go to VN and do business; a big chunk of
|> their profit will go to Japan and HongKong and not in VN.
|> I think we should encourage Vietnamese in VN to do business rather than
|> discourage them.  It is true that in doing so, it will help the Communist
|> government indirectly.  But between human well being and political
|> ideology, I side on human wellness first.
|> 
|> Also, I would like to comment something on the perceived connection
|> between capitalism and democracy/freedom.  Such as the followings from Tri :
|> 
|> >So if you do business with Vietnam now, you are helping the current
|> >regime consolidate its power structure whose underlying ideology
|> >remains extremely contemptuous of values such as individual freedom on
|> >which capitalism is based.
|> 
|> The only "individual freedom" that capitalism needs and support is the freedom
|> to do business and freedom to make huge profit.  Capitalism in itself does
|> not imply freedom of speech, assembly, etc...   That is why it is possible
|> for such country as Singapore, Malaysia, etc... can have such a powerful
|> economy and still being authoritarian regimes.
|> 
|> Again, from Tri :
|> 
|> >What we want is more than just economic improvement.
|> >Capitalism should be viewed as a by-product of freedom and should be
|> >kept in check by certain social principles. Otherwise, it could
|> >involve pretty ruthless exploitation.
|> 
|> I totally agree.  It's just that I'd prefer seeing the people alive first.
|> 
|> 
|> Luong Nguyen-Duy
|> 
|> 
|> ============================================================================
|> 
|> "The wise therefore rule by emptying the hearts and stuffing bellies,
|> by weakening ambitions and strenghthening bones"
|> 
|> 			Lao Tsu


	O^ng Lu*o*ng,

	To^i xin co' mo^.t tha<'c ma<'c nho? ve^` ba`i vie^'t tre^n cu?a o^ng.  
Y' kie^'n ma` o^ng ddu*a ra co' ve? ho*.p ly' nhu*ng la.i tra'i nguye^n ta<'c va`
ddi ngu*o*.c la.i vo*'i su*. tha^.t.  Xin ho?i o^ng,
	
	Thu*' nha^'t: nha` ca^`m quye^`n Vie^.t Co^.ng hie^.n nay co' thu*.c su*
cho phe'p ngu*o*`i da^n tu*. do la`m a<n buo^n ba'n hay kho^ng ???.  Mo.i
ngu*o*`i co^ng da^n co' ddu*o*.c hu*o*?ng quye^`n lo*.i mo^.t ca'ch bi`nh dda<~ng
hay chu*a ?  Ai la` ngu*o*`i "provide services" va` ai "gain profits" ?.  DDo*`i
so^'ng cu?a dda.i dda so^' ddo^`ng ba`o vie^.t nam co' thu*.c su*. ddu*o*.c 
na^ng cao qua lo^'i la`m a<n kie^?u "... So here, I am bribing left and right to 
government people so that my business can run smoothly..." You said.  Thu*a o^ng,
ngoa`i nhu*~ng te^n hu't ma'u, ba^'t Lu*o*ng chuye^n nghe^` ho^'i lo^. ha` hie^'p
ddo^`ng ba`o...thu*a o^ng, Ai la` ngu*o*`i a<n tre^n ngo^`i tru*o*'c ?  Ai la` 
na.n nha^n cu?a lo^'i la`m a<n ba^'t chi'nh nha<`m nuo^i du*o*~ng mo^.t che^'
ddo^. phi nha^n, Co^.ng Sa?n Vie^.t Nam.  DDa`nh ra<`ng nhu*~ng nha` thu*o*ng gia
co' ma'nh khoe' buo^n ba'n, nhu*~ng te^n mo.t nu*o*'c co' lua^.n ddie^.u tuye^n
truye^`n ddo^?i mo*'i ra^'t ho*.p ti`nh, ho*.p ly' nhu*ng ddie^`u dda'ng gia^.n
la` kho^ng hie^?u ta.i sao nhu*~ng ngu*o*`i cho mi`nh la` tri' thu*'c[1] sao no*?
nha<'m ma<'t hu*o*?ng quye^`n hu*o*?ng lo*.i tre^n no^?i tho^'ng kho^? cu?a ca? 
da^n to^.c.  To^i sinh ra trong gia ddi`nh da^n da~ cha<~ng nhi`n dda<.ng bao
xa, xin o^ng chi? DDa.o da^n ti`nh.

	Thu*' hai:  Nha` ca^`m quye^`n vie^.t co^.ng kho^ng ta.o ddie^`u kie^.n 
cho ngu*o*`i da^n [2] ddu*o*.c tu*. do buo^n ba'n.  DDa~ va^.y, la.i mo*?
ddu*o*`ng cho nhu*~ng te^n tu* sa?n nu*o*'c ngoa`i ddu.c khoe't da^n chu'ng...ba'n
da^n dden, mo^.t ma~nh dda^'t cu~ng kho^ng giu*~ no^?i la`m cho lo`ng da^n hoang
mang, dda.o ddu*'c suy ddo^`i.  Thu*a o^ng Lu*o*ng, to^i kho^ng nghi~ ra<`ng 
chu'ng ta no*~ he` nhau ddu.c khoe't, hu't ma'u da^n chu'ng ba<`ng lo^'i buo^n
ba'n vo*'i vie^.t co^.ng the^m nu*~a sao?.  Co' le~ to^i chu*a hie^?u dda<.ng y'
tha^m cu?a o^ng cha<ng ?  xin o^ng va.ch lo^'i chi? cho Quang lo^.

	Thu*' ba: Khi lua^.t le^., chi'ch sa'ch chu*a ddu*o*.c ro? ra`ng.
Khi nha` ca^`m quye^`n Vie^.t Co^.ng co`n to^`n ta.i.  Ngoa.i tru*` nhu*~ng tha`nh
vie^n co' lie^n he^. ma^.t thie^'t vo*'i Vie^.t Co^.ng.  Ai cho phe'p anh ve^` VN
la`m a<n [3] ?  Du` anh co' tie^`n kho^ng co' the^' to^i chi? e ti'nh ma.ng kho^ng
bie^'t co' giu*~ dda<.ng cho*' no'i chi dde^'n sanh lo*`i.  Co' le~ to^i co`n
nga^y tho*, ngu muo^.i chu*a bie^'t ddu*o*.c ddu*o*`ng da^y mo'c ngoa<.c, xa?o 
ngo^n dde^? la`m a<n vo*'i Vie^.t Co^.ng !!!? Xin o^ng thu*? da^?n lo^'i dde^'n 
cu*?a Thanh Nha`n.

	Ca'm o*n,


[1] To^i nghe ddu*o*.c mo^.t nho'm co' ho.c o*? Ha?i Ngoa.i he` nhau buo^n ba'n 
vo*'i vie^.t co^.ng (tu*` tru*o*'c 1975), ro^`i la.i quay dda^`u vo* ve't co^ng
kho' cu?a nhu*~ng ddo^`ng ba`o ti. na.n, nay la.i chuye^?n nghe^` la`m a<n tu*`
thie^.n, xa~ ho^.i, toan ti'nh mo*? tru*o*`ng DDa.i Ho.c thu*o*ng nghie^.p, ky~
thua^.t cho Vie^.t Co^.ng.

[2] To^i muo^'n no'i dde^'n mo^.t ngu*o*`i co^ng da^n cu?a nu*o*'c Vie^.t Nam
kho^ng pha?i la` bo.n con o^ng cha'u cha Vie^.t Co^.ng, hay bo.n ca^`m quye^`n 
tho^'i na't

[3] Chi'nh Quye^`n Hoa Ky` va` ngay ca? chi'nh quye^`n Co^.ng Sa?n Vie^.t Nam
hie^.n nay chu*a chi'nh thu*'c cho phe'p ba^'t cu*' ai co' quan he^. buo^n ba'n.