HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner)
Subject: Re: BOOK: The Force of Star Wars
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 23:06:33 GMT

David Kemper (dkemper@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu) wrote:

: Well you don't need special permission to write a book about an
: interpretation of Star Wars, any more than you would to write a movie
: review.  As I recall, he doesn't use the stylized STAR WARS logo anywhere,
: and the cover illustration is a slight variation on the common picture of
: Luke holding the lightsaber in the air with Leia next to him.

This version *does* have the stylized SW logo, and a lot of pictures
used courtesy of LFL -- and the cover is a very rough sketch of Luke
with sabre over his head.

: The neat thing about religion is that it's so all-encompassing you can take
: any creative work on the face of the planet and find an interpretation of
: it that shows how it's a religious allegory. 

That's the trouble. Insisting something is an allegory when you're not
the author immediately sort of casts doubts all over your arguement.
An allegory by definition means the author chose the characters etc to
*be* symbols for something else, and that clearly isn't the case in
SW -- Han Solo isn't a "gentile" -- he's a 100% skeptic. Certainly
he didn't have a massive conversion to the force any time during
SW. And, the amounts of revisions of the script Lucas did before
the movie was made show that he didn't have the kind of crystal
clear idea of SW, just the overall concepts.

As I was reading last night, the allusions to SW got fewer and fewer --
a few sentences at the start of the chapters. The full length
explanation of the end of the world a la Revelations became very
nonsequitur...

I *never* got the impression that the Jedi *worshipped* the 
force or gave it a personification like a deity. 

But the author seems to have the best of intentions and if it
helped (past tense -- I doubt many people have copies today --
is this or the ESB/RotJ versions still in print?!) anyone it
was certainly worthwhile.

And it's a great addition to the collection.

Scott

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: g-martin1@uiuc.edu (Gregory A. Martin)
Subject: Re: Splinter of a Mind's Eye
Originator: gamg6900@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Reply-To: g-martin1@uiuc.edu (Gregory A. Martin)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 02:10:43 GMT

mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner) writes:
>Compared to say every other SW book ever written, Splinter
>has to be one of the worst. It must have been some kind
>of get it out in xxx days to take advantage of the
>marketing deal ... it's an abysmally dumb plot that was
>somehow drug out into a book. (Perhaps it was a rejected SW marvel
>comic script?)

Dissenting opinion: This is actually a pretty cool book. I read it when it
was first released in 1978, and at the time it was just awesome. That was
before any hint of Empire Strikes Back, and the book filled a need for
more Star Wars stories. People complain that the events of Empire and
Jedi invalidate the book, but if you start from the Star Wars movie then
Splinter of the Mind's Eye is a compelling sequel fully in the spirit of
the Star Wars adventures. The biggest thing for me is that the climax of
the book works -- it's exciting, full of suspense, and scary. I feared for
the heroes and shared in their pain. For me the story is much better than the
Zahn books -- can anyone call them exciting and full of suspense? Zahn's tone
far too wordy and calculating to be exciting.

Advice: By all means read Splinter of the Mind's Eye. I've read the book
several times since 1978, and my advice is to fix in your mind who the 
characters from the Star Wars movie are before starting the book.
Remember, Luke is immature and brash, and Leia is single-minded and
haughty. With this in mind, it is a cool story.

>If I were a SW book reader who wanted to read SW, I'd highly
>recommand the "Han Solo and ..." series, as well as the "Lando
>and ..." series. Or the new books, or even Dark Horse's new
>comic series (with the watercolor art and the glossy pages and
>covers that leave fingerprints if you just think about them,
>let alone touch them! :)).

Dissenting opinion: My ranking goes:
1) Splinter of the Mind's Eye
2) Han Solo books
3) Dark Empire
4) Zahn books
5) Lando books

Comment about the fingerprints is definitely true! (and damn annoying)

						Greg Martin
						g-martin1@uiuc.edu
From: alix@iastate.edu (L.A. Melloy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Favorite SW Moments
Date: 22 Dec 92 04:28:08 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

Pardon me if I repeat what's already been said, but I wanted to throw my
two sense in (or three of four)....

1)  EVERY scene where the hyperdrive of the _Falcon_ cuts out in ESB.

2)  ESB, on Hoth:
	Leia:  why you egotistical (?), scruffy looking...NERFHERDER!
	Han:   Who's scruffy looking?

3)  And my all time favorite scene...just AFTER Luke had kicked the living
	daylights out of Vader on the 2nd Death Star.  The look on his face
	is just EERIE!


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leigh Ann Melloy  |  "I would like us to come together and build......
alix@iastate.edu  |                a chopstick." - From the movie _Mr._Baseball
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: dkemper@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu (David Kemper)
Subject: Occam and Holmes (was Re: Thrawn & Pellaeon)
Organization: University of Administrative Incompetence
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:08:27 GMT
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In article <1gsu9dINNf93@bigboote.WPI.EDU>, gandalf@wpi.WPI.EDU (James Michael Sambrook) writes...
> 
>>	Actually, Holmes never said that in any of the stories.  However,
>>Thrawn could say before one of his explanations that once all the impossible
>>has been eliminated, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the
>>truth.
> 
>This saying is actually called Occam's Razor.  Of course, it was originated by
>one of Spock's ancestors (OK...so it's a cross post...but hey...he said it! :^)

Uh, actually Occam's Razor is a principle used in science, stating that
when several theories are offered to explain a phenomenon, the simplest one 
(or the one that makes the fewest assumptions) is the one most likely to be 
correct.  As far as I've heard, that first quote did originate with Holmes
(or, more accurately, Doyle).

--Gallandro

    "Take it easy, kid.  It's only a movie."   --Ham Salad, "Hardware Wars"
From: warden@midnite.pinetree.org (Tim Warden)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: New Star Wars Movies
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 19:32:09 EST
Organization: Midnite Mania Information Services

greenie@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:

> 
> Which Star Wars?  Is that fatso Mark Hamil in it?  (No offense to Mark, but
> he's starting to look like Scotty :-)
> 
> Andy, green@ids.net

While we are on the subject, does anybody have any idea who has been
casted in the new movie?
 
Tim

--
  Internet: warden@midnite.pinetree.org       |
  UUCP:  ...!pinetree!midnite!warden          |  Merry Christmas all!
  Fidonet: 1:163/313      TRFN: 100:649/25    |
  Midnite Mania BBS - Ottawa, Ontario, Canada - +1 613 567 5146 - 2400 BPS
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: trogers@watson.ibm.com
Subject: Re: trivia buffs... :-)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 14:34:04 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.16 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: trogers@yktvmv.vnet.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In <1992Dec19.010921.3007@cc.umontreal.ca> lebeld@JSP.UMontreal.CA (David Lebel) writes:
>
>       Name the place(s) where we can see english words (not only letters
>and numbers, but actual words) in ANH... This not that easy, I can assure you
>:->...
>
>-- 
> David Lebel              | C-3PO: Sir, the possibility of successfully |
> Universite de Montreal   |        navigating an asteroid field is     <o>
> lebeld@JSP.UMontreal.CA  |        approximately 3720 to 1.             |  Star
> (514) 343-6532 ext 44644 | HAN:   Never tell me the odds!             < \ Wars

Tractor-beam control tower.  Ben deactivates one of the controls.  A gauge has
the some sort of measurement on it in '12 secs'/something or other.

Regards,
Tom Rogers
roy@trigger.watson.ibm.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Disclaimer:  The comments in this post  | - What is your name?     |
|              are not necessarily shared | - What is your quest?    |
|              with my employer           | - What is...             |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Organization: Philosophy, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 11:56:22 -0500 
From: Martin Thurn <mt2f+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Announcing: new collectors' newsletter

Announcing!  A new Star Wars collectors' newsletter.

Issue #1 is ready to ship.  For more information, email to:

mt2f+request@andrew.cmu.edu

(I hope this doesn't violate anyone's anti-advertising rules)
From: mason
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: RotJ was disappointing
Date: 4 Jan 93 00:58:36 GMT
Organization: Rice University

In article <1328@blue.cis.pitt.edu>
hummell+@pitt.edu (Andrew G Hummell) writes:
 
>                                         ... I just wish that he had
>gone with the Wookies instead of the Ewoks.  I would have loved to
>see a bunch of Wookies bring the Empire to its knees (Lucas stated in
>"From Star Wars to Jedi: The Making of a Saga" that the reason he finally
>nixed the Wookies was that Chewie was too sophisticated.  He wanted a
>really primitive culture to overthrow the Empire and since Chewie had
>demonstrated that Wookies made good co-pilots and mechanics, Wookies
>were no longer primitive enough).
 
   I recently watched the collector's edition letterboxed Star Wars
movies, and I have to say that Return of the Jedi was disappointing.
After the first two movies, RotJ seemed ... campy.  I still like the
movie, but to my way of thinking, it doesn't live up to the standard
established by the first two.
   If Lucas wanted to show a primitive culture triumph over a techno-
logical one, he should have found a different way to do it.  The Ewok
battle was just short of absurd.  Wookies using vastly inferior tech
would have worked just as well, and would have been far more believable.
   And is it just me, or were the aliens in the Mos Eisley cantina more
believable than those in Jabba's palace?  Salacious Crumb, Cy Snootles,
and especially Max Rebo didn't look like lifeforms, they looked like
Muppets.  Sigh.
   One thing I will say -- the space battle above the Death Star was
spectacular on the widescreen.  When the Tie fighters attacked like a
swarm of angry hornets, my jaw dropped.  If the Emperor and Commander
Jerjerrod had even half Tarkin's class, this might have saved the film.
 
   Here's hoping the new movies return to the level of the first two.
 
 
-- mason
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Favorite moments ...
From: hummell+@pitt.edu (Andrew G Hummell)
Date: 2 Jan 93 21:38:18 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Keywords: Darth Vader Luke Cremation

In article <4a4267#@rpi.edu> goldek@aix.rpi.edu (Ken Goldenberg) writes:
>In article <1211@blue.cis.pitt.edu> hummell+@pitt.edu (Andrew G Hummell) writes:
>
>>		o  The appearance of the images of Ben, Yoda, and Anakin to
>>		   Luke -- The perfect upbeat ending, IMHO.
>
>I always (after seeing it on VHS) thought that this was really cheesy (I
>forget what I thought when I saw ROTJ in the theater, as that was '82 or so)
Yeah, it was cheesy, but ending the movie on a downbeat like Vader's
funeral would have left people a little sad.  Lucas stated that he wanted
RotJ to be an upbeat ending to the trilogy.  I just wish that he had
gone with the Wookies instead of the Ewoks.  I would have loved to
see a bunch of Wookies bring the Empire to its knees (Lucas stated in
"From Star Wars to Jedi: The Making of a Saga" that the reason he finally
nixed the Wookies was that Chewie was too sophisticated.  He wanted a
really primitive culture to overthrow the Empire and since Chewie had
demonstrated that Wookies made good co-pilots and mechanics, Wookies
were no longer primitive enough).

>
>Anyway, I just re-watched them on disc (letterboxed) and really enjoyed the
>(pre-ewok) ending.  I haven't seen the VHS letterboxed versions for sale
>yet, but they're definately worth AT LEAST renting.
>
[stuff deleted to save bandwidth :-)]
I don't know of any rental places that would shell out $100 to buy a boxed
set of movies that they already have (in P&S), but you never know.  Luckily
I got the set as a gift (I would have much rather had a LD player, but 
I'll have to settle for what I have until I can afford one).

Andy
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "I'm not insane...just a reasonable facsimile."  | Hummell@vms.cis.pitt.edu
   -- me				           | Andy Hummell     230 DLH 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dleslie@phakt.usc.edu (David Leslie)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Favorite moments ...
Date: 28 Dec 1992 22:55:27 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu
Keywords: Darth Vader Luke Cremation

In article <9236416.13725@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> winikoff@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Michael David WINIKOFF) writes:
>No one seems to have mentioned this one yet ...
>
>One of my favorite moments in the trilogy is when Luke cremates
>Darth Vaders remains in ROTJ.
[stuff deleted]
>Michael
>winikoff@cs.mu.oz.au

I agree. It was one of the few really good emotional moments of ROTJ.
If ONLY they had rolled the credits right there, I would have felt
much better about the film. But the debacle that follows is UGLY!
yug yug!

 /  Amiga  ///    |  U.S.C. Trojans  | O Bar  | David Leslie        \
|         ///     |     Fight On!    | E O    |                      |
|     \\\///      |        --        | Meu    | dleslie@usc.edu      |
 \     \XX/ A1000 |     Go Kings!    | Lar!   |                     /
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: dkemper@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu (David Kemper)
Subject: Re: Another error?
Organization: University of Administrative Incompetence
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 16:43:40 GMT
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-a4  
Reply-To: dkemper@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu
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NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Dec31.001419.3601@nic.funet.fi>, tapio@nic.funet.fi (Tapio Keih{nen) writes...
>In <30DEC92142927@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu> dkemper@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu (David Kemper) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec30.105457.20662@nic.funet.fi>, tapio@nic.funet.fi (Tapio Keih{nen) writes...
>>>- Stormtrooper's head hits the door in ANH (the scene where C3PO and
>>>R2D2 are 'trapped' in that closet)
> 
>>This is one of those things that everyone points to as a blooper in Star
>>Wars.  Think about it: it's not.  Why COULDN'T a Stormtrooper hit his head
>>on barging into a room?  It's an error on the STORMTROOPER'S part, but a
>>blooper is something that's logically inconsistent within the movie.  This
>>doesn't qualify.
> 
>1. Maybe this doesn't qualify. I don't think that it is a blooper in Star
>Wars. However, I don't think that it was there on purpose - it just
>looks like a pure accident. No, it is not an error, I admit. But it is
>one interesting thing in Star Wars, one of the things which makes
>watching Star Wars interesting for 2785 times or more.

Agreed.  I doubt it was intentional either, but neither was the scene where
Chewbacca scares the mouse robot on the Death Star--that just sort of
happened during filming and they decided to keep it in.

--Gallandro

    "Take it easy, kid.  It's only a movie."   --Ham Salad, "Hardware Wars"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: roy@watson.ibm.com
Subject: Re: Meaningless dialogue
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 14:26:36 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.16 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: roy@trigger.watson.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In <7q#@byu.edu> julie@alaska.et.byu.edu (Julie Gritton) writes:
>As was pointed out in a previous post, 3PO couldn't seen the Blockade
>Runner from the escape pod because it had been "swallowed up" by the
>Star Destroyer.  
>
>"You could use a good kiss!"           JULIE

You better watch again.  He obviously could see the underbelly of the
BR and no doubt quite a bit more.  Sure, it was swallowed up, but it
was still quite visible.  I expect 3P0 expected to see a heavily battle
damaged ship.  From his point of view there was no damage.  The BR
only took a few hits, and they were all topside.  None on the back,
none on the sides, none on the bottom.  The only thing 3P0 definitely
could not see was the top, where all the damage was.

Regards,
Tom Rogers
roy@trigger.watson.ibm.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Disclaimer:  The comments in this post  | - What is your name?     |
|              are not necessarily shared | - What is your quest?    |
|              with my employer           | - What is...             |
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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: goldek@aix.rpi.edu (Ken Goldenberg)
Subject: Re: Favorite moments ...
Keywords: Darth Vader Luke Cremation
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 01:23:59 GMT

In article <1211@blue.cis.pitt.edu> hummell+@pitt.edu (Andrew G Hummell) writes:

>		o  The funeral pyre of Darth Vader
>		o  The appearance of the images of Ben, Yoda, and Anakin to
>		   Luke -- The perfect upbeat ending, IMHO.

I always (after seeing it on VHS) thought that this was really cheesy (I
forget what I thought when I saw ROTJ in the theater, as that was '82 or so)

Anyway, I just re-watched them on disc (letterboxed) and really enjoyed the
(pre-ewok) ending.  I haven't seen the VHS letterboxed versions for sale
yet, but they're definately worth AT LEAST renting.

my $.02

				-Mitch


-- 
_____
goldek@rpi.edu                                SkateAway, that's all  
Kenneth Mitchell Goldenberg                   "It's a running gag"

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: roy@watson.ibm.com
Subject: Re: Another error?
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 15:18:43 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.16 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: roy@trigger.watson.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In <1hsc3hINNal5@rave.larc.nasa.gov> avik@icase.edu (Avik Banerjee) writes:
>> I wouldn't call these bugs 'script errors', they're more like
>> technical errors. Currently I can think of these:
>>
>>
>> - on Endor in ROTJ, when the rebels surrend to imperials, one Stormtrooper
>> raises his hands too (someone had an explanation for this here but 
>> can't remember what it was)
>
>when they took the gaurds to the 'back door' one of the rebels dressed
>up as a stormtrooper so noone would notice a missing guard.
>
>foomshanka
>
>avik@icase.icase.edu

Well than that makes him a pretty stupid rebel in disquise.  The
dude should have kept his arms down, and at the best opportunity
started blasting as many Imperials as possible.

Regards,
Tom Rogers
roy@trigger.watson.ibm.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Disclaimer:  The comments in this post  | - What is your name?     |
|              are not necessarily shared | - What is your quest?    |
|              with my employer           | - What is...             |
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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: booth@ccad.uiowa.edu (Michael Booth)
Subject: Looking for Star Wars 3D polygonal models
Followup-To: booth@ccad.uiowa.edu
Organization: CAD-Research, University of Iowa, Iowa City
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 21:07:25 GMT

Hello, fellow Star Wars fans!

I'm looking for some accurate polygonal models of some Star Wars spacecraft,
namely a Tie fighter, an X wing, and a Star Destroyer. Any others would be
welcome, also. I would also prefer some form of ASCII format, so I can
parse these myself.

I work at the Iowa Driving Simulator which is a full scale real time
simulator complete with an Evans and Sutherland CT6 flight simulation
image generator (60 frames per second full color imagery), and we are now
completing a large hydraulic motion base which will toss the whole
simulator around, giving realistic G force feedback. So, I thought, hey,
what could be better for this than a deep space battle between an X wing
fighter and a swarm of Tie fighters around a Star Destroyer? So in my
'spare time' (right) I'm trying to put this all together.

Any data would be helpful. Please respond via e-mail to booth@ccad.uiowa.edu.
If anyone wants me to, I'll post my findings here.

Thanks,
Mike

-- 
---------- ---------- ---------- ---------- ---------- ---------- ----------
  Michael S. Booth (booth@ccad.uiowa.edu)
  Iowa Driving Simulator Scenario Control Subsystem Developer
  Center for Computer Aided Design, the University of Iowa
From: avik@icase.edu (Avik Banerjee)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Another error?
Date: 30 Dec 1992 14:35:29 GMT
Organization: ICASE/NASA Langley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: dolphin.icase.edu

> I wouldn't call these bugs 'script errors', they're more like
> technical errors. Currently I can think of these:
>
>
> - on Endor in ROTJ, when the rebels surrend to imperials, one Stormtrooper
> raises his hands too (someone had an explanation for this here but 
> can't remember what it was)

when they took the gaurds to the 'back door' one of the rebels dressed
up as a stormtrooper so noone would notice a missing guard.

foomshanka

avik@icase.icase.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: Ray.Chramega <Ray.Chramega@mixcom.mixcom.com>
Subject: Anybody seen the DATA EAST "Star Wars" Pinball?
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 07:05:14 GMT


   I just saw this pinball machine at a local game room. It's totally
incredible and the best machine I've played in some time. Features sound
samples of TIE Fighters, Jabba, Yoda, Luke, Leia, Ben, Darth, C-3P0, R2-D2
and others. It has a video display of computerized scene recreations of
Jawas attacking Artoo, Gunners on Death Star preparing to activate the prime
weapon etc. There is a R2-D2 model situated toward the rear of the game that
jumps around, rotates its dome and beeps at tense moments. There is a
revolving Death Star model with an occasionally exposed exhaust port that
allows you to get into a triple pinball battle if you succeed in destroying
the Death Star. It's totally cool!

-Ray

-- 


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