From: tang@akofin.enet.dec.com (Gabe Tang)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: re: several previous queries.....
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:26:14 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


Greetings,

	After having shot some good arrows in college, I actually put away
	the bow for almost 10 years now. There just wasn't all that much
	NAA/FITA archery in the Boston area when I moved back. :-(

	Now, after almost 8 years of being a dedicated VAX/VMS user I finally 
	find out about the Usenet and this archery news group. So, while
	my thoughts on the subject may be rusty, please allow me to
	occassionally put in a word or two in response. ;^)

re: locher@IASTATE.EDU (Robert C Locher) Subject: tender fingers

>I'm very much a beginner at archery.  I went out and bought an old recurve bow
>for $50 a while ago, and I've been taking barebow pot shots at Coke cans at 40
>yards, with some success.
>My problem is that when I shoot daily, my fingers, the middle one especially,
>get really sore. It gets so bad I can only shoot about 40 before the pain makes
>me quit.  I think it happens because the string slides on my tab, so only the
>pressure is transmitted, and not the friction;  if the friction were also
>transmitted, I would at least get a callus.  How did the longbowmen of old deal
>with it?
>My bow has about 50 lbs. of draw.  I use a three-fingered grip with a tab. 

Rob,
	First off, a 50lb. draw, while on the heavy side, is not too too
	outrageous, I shot 48-54 lbs. when I competed in outdoor FITAs....
	for that matter, at indoors too! But, seriously, to handle such a
	high draw weight, you do need to take advantage of even the little
	things or be overwhelmed by the high draw weight. So, let me ask, do
	you use a deep hook or do you just hold the string on the tip of your
	fingers, just behind the fingernails? I ask this because I used to
	suffer similar pains until I used a deep hook....that is, the string
	should rest in the hook made by your first knuckles but all your
	second knuckles are bent too. The effect is to make both knuckle areas
	into 45 degree angles. You may already be doing this, but just in case,
	check to make sure. I know that some people hold the 2nd knuckles
	fairly straight, that won't work well at 50 lbs!  ;-)

	Next, how long is the bow? Target bows typically go from 66"" to 72".
	You just may in fact be shooting an old hunting recurve (especially
	because of the high draw weight) and will find the angle of the
	string because of the short limbs is so acute that most of the pressure
	is on your middle finger and the other 2 fingers are effectively 
	displaced by the string so they don't help the middle finger support 
	the weight well. Even 66" is not easy to draw 50 lbs. A 70-72" bow 
	would be better, make the draw smoother and feel less harsh. But, you 
	don't have much of a choice unless you buy a new bow, do you. :-}

	Then, there is the matter of the string itself. What kind of material
	is it made of and is it thick or thin? Naturally, a thin string will
	dig into your finger more than a fatter one. And lastly, check the
	padding material of your tab. Maybe it is worn and contributing to 
	your pain.  :-}

	Don't over-draw and pace your set-up and aiming. Upon the release,
	just let the muscles in your finger go limp as your shoulder and elbow
	muscles pull the arm back out of the path of the string. Don't slide
	the string off your fingers as if you were dragging the fingers and
	slowly uncurling them from the string.

	Did I leave anything out? probably, oh well..... ;-p


re: (Carl West) Subject: Re: Form question

> I finally got to see a videotape of me shooting. I noticed that at full draw,
> my elbow is several inches (3-4) above the line of the arrow. I have
> suspected this was the case for a long time because I end up with a serious
> callous on the pad of my third finger but not the other two. Should I try to
> alter my form? I'm anchoring my forefinger behind my canine tooth, I draw 
>about 31". To get my forearm in line with the arrow I figure I'd have to 
>either lean my body backward or draw to somewhere around my ear (which would 
>make for ~35" draw, then I'd _have_ to foot all my arrows :(  
> Is this sort of misalignment really a problem or potential problem?
> Or am I just trying to borrow trouble?

Carl,
	First off, I'd tend to agree with Angus, the elbow being higher than
	the arrow is not necessarily the cause of your callous. The key
	is the callous is on your pad. For some reason the 3rd finger is not
	supporting the string in the same manner as your other 2 fingers......
	or you are not using a deep hook but holding the string on all 3
	finger pads? As for the 31" draw length...that's pretty long already.
	doy you have longish arms or are you maybe overdrawing? Is this a
	compound or shortish recurve bow? If so, the acute string angle
	may be affecting that 3rd finger contact area...... Whatever.

	What I am more curious about is......whether your elbow continues
	upward upon the release or stright back, or even drops down slightly
	as you pull through the draw? Did the tape show what happens? If the
	elbow continues upward upon first release, then I'd say you might have
	a problem in trying to pull up with the elbow and that is probably
	causing the manifestation of the callous on your 3rd finger because
	it requires your 3rd finger to be dragged upward and to support
	more than it's share of the string weight. If the elbow comes straight
	back or drops a little, then your pull is not the major cause of
	callous problem. just mho.

From: bart2250@miller.cs.uwm.edu (Bartelt)
Subject: slings
>I recently purchased a new bow. I've begun to shoot with a bow sling on the
>advice of a local pro. I had a tendency to hold my bow ham fisted and this
>would fatigue my forearm after several rounds of arrows. He suggested
>trying to use the sling so I did. My question is...My bow tends to dip forward
>after the shot, not so much as I have to literally catch the bow but it is
>noticeable. I previously shot with a hunting stabilizer (9 inch extension)
>but with the addition of the bow sling and it's mounting harware, I've
>removed the extension bar and just screwed the weight into the sling hardware
>which gives about 2 inches of extension to the weight. I never noticed this
>rotation when I didn't use the sling but now that I've loosened my grip, it
>has become obvious. Should I get rid of the weight, go to a lighter weight, or
>is there a stabilizer setup that will allow me to move the bows' center of
>gravity more in line with the riser?

Paul,
	Again, I agree with both Bryan and Christopher about the concept
	that it is good that the bow jump forward and dip forward upon
	the shot release. A nice controlled reaction is probably desired.
	But, I seem to notice you mention you hold the bow "ham fisted" and
	this would cause fatigue in your forearm. Are you still holding the
	bow semi-"ham fisted" and do you still find your forearm fatiguing, 
	even with the use of the sling? Or even, do you find that the bow
	jumps a little off-center? I ask because you mention a rotation and
	I am wondering if the rotation is something other than straight forward 
	and down. If there is an off-center rotation or torqueing, this may
	be a vestige of your previous ham-fisting. That pesky wrist may still
	be causing you a problem. Maybe not.

	Anyway, as for the stabilizer question.....why not a V-bar set-up that
	puts weight toward the face of the riser.....that is, towards you.
	That would off-set the jump forward and make it less jerky, more
	smooth and controlled. Not so much weight as to make the bow too 
	heavy or not jump at all. but, a little to make the movement forward
	less of a "jump" and more of a "leaning" forward.  :-)

	Anyway, if these type of comments are not appreciated, just say so
	and I'll go away....or maybe be just read-only. ttfn.

-gabe
Newsgroups: alt.archery