HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik (Hacker))
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Order of Banks books
Date: 20 Aug 92 23:35:54 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written
Organization: Apple

In article <92230.084553IOR@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>,
IOR@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Thomas Hyer) wrote:
> 
> 
>   Is it advisable to read _Use of Weapons_
> before _Player of Games_ and _Consider Phlebas_?

I've read "Consider Phlebas", which is chronologically the
first book, "Player of Games" is the second, and 
Consider Phlebas" the third. This is just from the
history time line point of view. It does not matter
to read  any of the books in whatever order, they 
have separate stories -- unless I missed an obvious
or subconscious red line.

Kent

---
"Read my lips... No Willie Horton..."
From: mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Continuing Time
Keywords: Continuing Time Trent Long Run
Date: 28 Aug 92 08:21:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Aug28.082117.10707
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society

In article <1992Aug26.153639.20684@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com writes:
>
>d_moran@pain.la.ca.us (Daniel Keys Moran) writes:
>
>[lotsa stuff about Trent, Denice, and the Continuing Time deleted]
>
>So, I still wanna know: did he walk through the f***ing wall or not?
>
>:-)

 No! It was the Goddamn hologram from his buddy the AI!!!

Wassail,
Al Billings

                           mimir@u.washington.edu
    /\  /\       +----------------------------------------+
   /__\/__\      | "I know that I hung on the windy tree  |          |
  /\  /\  /\     |  all of nights nine, wounded by Gar,   |          |
 /__\/__\/__\    |   given to Odhinn, myself to myself,   |          |
    /\  /\       | upon that tree of which none can tell  |          |
   /__\/__\      |      from what root it rises."         |    ______|______
                 +----------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ve3pak@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Alayne McGregor and Brett Delmage)
Subject: Re: Upcoming Books till June
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC., Orleans (Ont)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 04:59:03 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.001339.27822@gallant.apple.com> chuq@gallant.apple.com (Chuq Von Rospach) writes:
>dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>>Holt, Tom, Flying Dutch, Ace, Jun
>
>Which I've read, and which really whelmed me. Oh, well.

I'm not sure why, but the jokes in this seemed like a tired Pratchett
or a faded version of Holt's previous books. Nothing done paricularly
wrong, but it just didn't quite click. However, there were moments
(particularly those with Jane, the accountant). Probably worth picking
up at your local library.
 
>>MacAvoy, King of the Dead, AvoNova, Dec
>>	I haven't a clue why this is a sequel to "Lens of the World",
>>	instead of being a stand-alone novel. LotW certainly didn't
>>	need a sequel.
>
>Sequels sell, of course....

Maybe because this is *better* than LotW, which was damned good itself.
Read it, and you'll be convinced that LotW really needed this as a sequel.
I think I'm going to nominate it for a Hugo next year.

Alayne McGregor
alayne@ve3pak.ocunix.on.ca
From: ekho.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Piers Anthony's Xanth Series
Date: 26 Aug 92 17:09:17 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton

phal@PICA.ARMY.MIL ("Patrick M. Phalen", FSAC-PMD) writes:

> I have been interested in reading some of the _Xanth_ novels and would
> like some insight before I start.  I know there are about 15 of them
> now, but it is difficult to find out where to start.  What I need is
> some sort of chronological or series order in which to read them, and
> some insight as to when to draw the line (please not TOO many, book 0
> comments! - I've many negative opinions expressed toward Piers and
> _Xanth_)
> 
> Tanks,
> 
> 	Pat Phalen <phal@pica.army.mil>
> 	*no fancy saying here*

  I have enjoyed "Pier Xanthony's" ;)  Xanth series for quite a while now 
(although I am a little behind; the last two books are somewhere in my 
books-to-be-read pile...)  The order to read them is easily found on the 
inside cover of the first book, _A Spell for Chameleon_.  The order of 
books follows:

                   A Spell for Chameleon
                   The Source of Magic
                   Castle Roogna
                   Centaur Aisle
                   Ogre, Ogre
                   Night Mare
                   Dragon on a Pedestal
                   Crewel Lye: A Caustic Yarn
                   Golem in the Gears
                  *Vale of the Vole
                  *Heaven Cent
                  *Man from Mundania
                  *Isle of View
                  *Question Quest
                  *The Color of her Panties  (just published)

  Titles with an * denotes that it is a book printed by Avon/Nova fantasy 
which took over much of Piers Anthony's printing (I forget why...)  
Unfortunately, the books printed by Avon/Nova do not list all of 
Anthony's books.

  Be warned about the Xanth series:  either you should love puns, or you 
shall be destroyed! ;))  Some are better than others, but the plots and 
ideas Anthony spins into his novels are worth any brain cells you might 
lose from a pun overdose!  Good luck, and Stay Safe!

        Yours in Time and Space,

            Ekho (Killer Queen, Dynamite with a Laser Beam)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: sef@kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan)
Subject: Re: Continuing Time
Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 02:17:55 GMT
Keywords: Continuing Time Trent Long Run

In article <1992Aug26.153639.20684@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com writes:
>So, I still wanna know: did he walk through the f***ing wall or not?

I think it was a hologram of Trent, controlled by RtWaP, to delay the PKF.

Of course, since Mr. Moran might be reading this himself, he can tell me if
I'm right or not 8-).  (Yeah, like he's *really* got nothing better to do
than read r.a.s.w.  I'd rather he keep writing and get more books published,
actually... 8-))

-- 
Sean Eric Fagan  | "You can't get lost in one room, no matter how
sef@kithrup.COM  |  little effort you make to learn your way around."
-----------------+    -- William E Davidsen (william@crd.GE.COM)
Any opinions expressed are my own, and generally unpopular with others.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Subject: Re: Gormenghast
Reply-To: djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Organization: Pacific * Bell
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 20:38:26 GMT
Keywords: Mervyn Peake, Fantasy

In article <w2kn9z#.dani@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:

>The first two Gormenghast books were wonderful, but I also found the
>third book a disappointment.  Since it tells of Titus in the outside
>world, it is cut off from so much of what makes the rest of the trilogy
>special.  It's a more thoughtful book, but not nearly as enjoyable.

You might want to check out the new (expensive) edition of TITUS ALONE.  The 
relatively poor (merely good rather than wonderful) quality of TA has often been
blamed on Peake's failing health as he wrote it -- it turns out that somewhere 
in the publishing cycle the text was heavily emended away from what Peake
actually wrote, and not by Peake.

No, I'm not claiming that it is an utterly different book: it is still the same 
set of adventures, still outside the castle.  But it is a much *better* book
than what we have had all these years.

The new edition also contains, incidentally, the beginning of a fourth "Titus" 
novel that Peake never completed.

		The Pavlov dog and the Schroedinger cat
		Side by side in my forebrain sat
		With Shakespeare's monkeys crowding in behind. . .
		. . . it's all in your mind.
			-- Visual Purple

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, Net.Roach
My opinions do NOT represent Pacific Bell,
Professional Development, or anyone else.
But I'm willing to share.
From: stong@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (Simon Tong)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Image (was Re: Continuing Time)
Date: 28 Aug 92 03:38:43 GMT
Organization: University of Melbourne

What do people think of Moran's concept of using an "image" like 
Ralf and Johnny Johnny to represent a human in a computer 
network ?  

This is slightly different from Gibson's idea of a person being 
'inside' a matrix him/herself.  Do you think Moran's version is 
more attainable ?

Regards,
Simon Tong
From: jjm30@diag.amdahl.com (Jeff Marr)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Vinge's singularity
Keywords: Malthus
Date: 27 Aug 92 01:19:35 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Cupertino, CA

In article <BtLKtx.BI6@helios.physics.utoronto.ca>, karls@aurora.physics.utoronto.ca (Karl Schroeder) writes:
|>    I find it more interesting to consider that the singularity is a
|> clear symptom of our civilization's blind spot:  we can't imagine what
|> culture is going to follow ours, any more than any previous culture
|> imagined ours.  The idea that we will dissolve in some kind of technologicaL
|> Rapture probably reflects our current anxieties better than it reflects
|> (or predicts) the future.
|>    On the other hand, it's sure made for some good stories!  :-)

Isn't it Ursula LeGuin who said that SF is only a comment on the present
(to very broadly paraphrase)? 

---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jeff Marr | Amdahl Corp | Disclaimer: I don't represent Amdahl    |
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jorngh@dhhalden.no (JORN GUNNAR HALONEN)
Subject: Who was Philip K. Dick ???
Organization: Ostfold College
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 22:46:43 GMT


I've recently discovered the paranoid universe of Philip K. Dick,
I must say that I'm quite amazed.

What I'm looking for is information about the man's life, as far
as I understand he was a quite misunderstood writer before his
too early death. (I don't think he gained any respect in higher
circles just a year before he died)

Is there a file about PKD anywhere, or maybe a book ? Any help or
info would be appreciated ...

Jorn... (jorngh@sofus.dhhalden.no)
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:37:15 EDT
From: <DSF105@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: COVINGTON CROSS
 <78591@ut-emx.uucp>

Folks (whoever's interested):

    I saw the premiere of COVINGTON CROSS on Wednesday
night, and well, it was. . . eh.

    In other words, there were things to like about it
and things to hate.  Again, for whoever's interested,
I'll list what struck me in those categories.

    First, the negative.  Unfortunately, COVINGTON
CROSS is much more of a soap opera than it is an act-
ual historical drama.  The actors' and actresses'
accents run the gamut from the probably-authentic,
to the passable, and finally to the dismally American.
Another gripe of mine is that the series doesn't seem
to know what it wants to be.  There's comedy, action,
romance, (very airy) drama, and some admittedly good
scenery.   But while these elements blend well in other
series(es?)--Twin Peaks, for one--it just doesn't work
here, at least for me.

    No one seemed to be taking much seriously, and
that's OK for a while.  But I'd expect characters to
bat more than an eyelash when their father has been
set up for a deathtrap.  Too much of the show was
flippant and fluffy for my liking.

    Even more fundamentally, however, the characters
seemed to know far more about their place in history
than ANYONE would, now or then.  There seemed to be
this politically-correct insistence to portray the
women as women of the 1990s.  I have no qualms about
fiction forsaking portraylas of women as helpless, but
don't make them into seers of the future. . . one
woman said to the other something about being "a
prisoner of their times."  I'm sorry, but no one--
men OR women--had a concept of social issues that
wouldn't arise until 500-700 years later.

    Enough griping (I realize that concessions must be
made to prime-time television).  There were some things
I liked about COVINGTON CROSS.  For one, the combat
scenes weren't done badly, as they often are on TV.
Well, they looked good to me, but people who know swords-
manship will undoubtedly laugh at this.  Oh well.

    I also liked the geo-political schemings of the
villain, simply because it opened up the setting a lit-
tle and promised something other than humdrum soap opera
plots to come.  And again, I thought the screnery and
sets were good. . . decidedly sanitized for medieval
castles and villages, but pretty good nonetheless.

    It's probably all moot, though. . . I highly doubt
that the show will last very long.  Not enough people
who make the ratings will allow their imaginations to
drift further than Falcon Crest or Knotts Landing.  What
I'm afraid will happen is that COVINGTON CROSS will face
the fate of other "different" shows like Twin Peaks and
Dark Shadows. . . it will last long enough to build up
some decent plots, then it'll be cancelled and leave
everyone hanging.

    Sorry for the lengthy doom and gloom, but we'll see
what happens.

                           --- dsf105 @ psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: leggett@a-l3um6.cern.ch (Charles Leggett )
Subject: Re: Continuing Time
Organization: CERN European Lab for Particle Physics
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 16:16:09 GMT

    One other possibility that no one else seems to have mentioned as to how
Trent manages to walk through the wall. Remember that the whole foundation of
the novels are "Continuing Time", where several of the characters are time
travellers. As one poster recently mentioned, we don't know what all of Trent's
talents are. Time travel could be one of them (I seem to recall that the 
'Novembers' have the gene for time travel, and they are the descendents of
Danielle (?)). So it is possible that at some point in the future he comes back
(perhaps to find out exactly how he managed to walk through a wall when he 
doesn't recall doing it himself :-) ), and either manages to walk through a 
solid object himself (though this would not be fun if there were vacuum on the
other side...) or sets up a hologram to mimic this. I think that the hologram
of Trent walking though a solid wall is by far the likeliest scenario, whether
he sets it up himself, or Ralph does it, or some as yet unnamed third party.

    In any case, I'm very pleased to see that we will be getting more books in
the future...


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Leggett                      |   "Unto each man is given the key that 
                                     | will open the door to Heaven. The same
leggett@mich.physics.lsa.umich.edu   | key unlocks the gates of Hell."
University of Michigan               |              - ancient Buddist proverb
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:11582 rec.org.sca:12389
From: Ann.Feeney@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Ann Feeney)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: COVINGTON CROSS
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:21:13 GMT
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

>
>On the subject of realism, lets talk about accents.  In article 
><1992Aug26.195005.11199@ccu.umanitoba.ca> thorntn@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Duncan Peter
> G. Thornton) writes:
>|>did it sound any
>|>worse than the daughter's supposedly real English accent? did most of
>|>the cast, in fact, graduate from the Kevin Costner School of Lousy
>|>English Accents? A good half of them didn't sound English at all -
>
>And what of it?  If we are talking about historical realism, what makes you
>think that British Received Pronunciation (a.k.a BBC English, Public School
>English) is any more aauuthentic as a representation of fourteenth century 
>accents than Great American English.  If you want authenticity in accents, 
>you will lose understandability for the majority of listeners, even among those
> who think they can recognise an authentic medieval English accent.  Remember,
>this was even before the time of Chaucer (Aprille with her showres soot and all
>that).  At this time, authentic English would look as much like
>
>I suppose the main point I am trying to make is that attacking American Network
>television on its lack of authenticity is kind of like shooting fish in a 
>barrel.  I would like to think you can tackle more challenging, and interesting,
>topics than this.
>
>Mike McConnell
>Dept. of Mathematics
>Kent State University

In addition--the British upper-class accent that one hears today is, I
believe, supposed to be derived from the German accents of the 
Hanover kings, who came a ruled, many without knowing much
English.  As royalty sets fashion even today (look at, say,
the Alexandra limp, Princess Diana's hair style, Victoria's
opals and lace), the Hanover accent gradually 
became the U.C. British accent, which trickled down
through all the classes.

So, anyone who wishes to assume an accent for SCA events (something that
I, personally, dislike, because very few people can do it well, and so
it sounds horribly artificial), don't look to, say, the BBC,
because they're based on 18th century Germans!

Enid Wrigglesworth/
Ann Feeney

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: advax@reg.triumf.ca (A.Daviel)
Subject: Re: Books on Magic vs Science 
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 23:47:00 GMT

In article <BtMKo2.7HM@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, maxson@cerl.uiuc.edu (K R Maxson) writes...
>In article <26AUG199217334733@reg.triumf.ca> advax@reg.triumf.ca (A.Daviel) writes:
>>Also the Changeling Earth series by Zelazny; Orcus (the demon) vs. Ardneh (a 
>>computer). Lawrence Watt-Evans had a couple (the Cyborg and the Sorcerers, 
> 
>Fred Saberhagen, if I am not mistaken, wrote the "Changeling Earth" books
>you are attributing to Zelazny -- although the proper name of the books
>escapes me.  _Empire of the East_, I think, with all of the Swords stuff
>set in the same creation.

Yes, right, I abase myself, I slipped a cog...
I thought I had seen it described somewhere as the Changeling Earth when it 
was still a trilogy, perhaps in the UK edition. Never mind..

Re. The Flying Sorcerers, by Niven and someone else (maybe Brin), Shoogar the 
magician did not use what us fantasy types think of as magic, he used more of 
Arthur Clarke's magic, science that the commoners aren't allowed to learn 
about. When Purple analyzed the potion used to provoke the sheep and 
mudworms(?) into attacking his shuttle, he found a complex mix of hormones, 
etc.

Andrew Daviel
From: tarl@sw.stratus.com (Tarl Neustaedter)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Map of Sparta (Pournelle's universe)
Date: 30 Aug 92 04:13:04 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

I was re-reading "Go Tell the Spartans", and kept wishing I had a
map of Sparta to keep things straight. I know I saw such a map
somewhere, but I can't find it now.

Does anyone know which book had this sketchy map of Sparta?
-- 
         Tarl Neustaedter	tarl@sw.stratus.com
         Marlboro, Mass.	Stratus Computer
Disclaimer: My employer is not responsible for my opinions.
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:11585 rec.org.sca:12393
From: bnostran@ds5000.DAC.Northeastern.edu (Barbara Nostrand)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: COVINGTON CROSS
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:12:50 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA

Nobles!

It is very interesting that the question of authentic British accent is
raised by a subject of the Atlantian throne.  The reason for this being
that not only is modern UC British English descended from imported
German monarchs, linguistic researchers actually claim that the closest
extant approximation to Elizabethan Stratford-on-Avon English is actually
spoken in Atlantia.  An here-in lies a significant dilema for "authenticity"
in medieval reconstruction.  While it is possible to recreate this accent,
it is unlikely that it will be generally perceived as "Medieval" or
"British."  Instead, it is most likely to be perceived as "Antebellum."
It is my opinion that the society rather frequently faces this dilema
and is one of the major reasons for fantasy elements in the SCA.  Basically,
fanatasy can at times seem much more "authentic" and "medieval" than
accurate recreation.

						Your Humble Servant
						Solveig Throndardottir
						Totally Ignorant
From: lvari@spam.ua.oz.au (Lino Vari)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Walter M. Miller, Jr.
Date: 31 Aug 92 04:09:56 GMT
Organization: Statistics, Pure & Applied Mathematics, University of Adelaide

Hi, I was wondering if anyone out there could provide me with some information
on the mysterious Walter M. Miller, Jr..

To my knowledge the following list is complete;

1 CONDITIONALLY HUMAN; a collection of three novellas:
a Conditionally Human-Copyright 1952 Galaxy Publishing Corporation.
b Dark Benidiction-Copyright 1951 Ziff-Davis Publishing Company.
c The Darfsteller-Copyright 1954 Street & Smith Publications, Inc.

2 A VIEW FROM THE STARS; a collection of short stories:
a You Triflin' Skunk. Originally, Triflin' Man-Copyright 1954 King-Size
Publications, Inc.
b The Will-Copyright 1953 Ziff-Davis Publishing Company.
c Anyboby Else Like Me. Originally, Command Performance-Copyright 1952 Galaxy
Publishing Corporation.
d Big Joe And The N-th Generation. Origianlly, It Takes A Thief-Copyright 1952
Quinn Publishing Company, Inc.
e Crucifixus Etiam-Copyright 1953 W. M. Miller, Jr.
f I, Dreamer-Copyright 1953 Ziff-Davis Publishing Company.
g Dumb Waiter-Copyright 1952 Street & Smith Publications, Inc.
h Blood Bank-Copyright 1952 Street & Smith Publications, Inc.
i The Big Hunger-Copyright 1952 W. M. Miller, Jr.

3 A CANTICLE FOR LEIBOWITZ; a novel-Copyright 1959 W. M. Miller, Jr.
Parts of which appeared in a different form in The Magazine of Fantasy and
Science Fiction. These parts are copyright 1956 The Fantasy House, Inc.

As can be seen all of his shorter works, excluding the precursors to 3, where
published from 1951 to 1954.

Apart from a snippet here and there from science fiction biographical
encyclopaedias, I know next to nothing about W. M. Miller, Jr.

I was wondering if anyone could provide me with some personal information on
W.M. Miller, Jr., i.e., date of birth, place of birth, education, family
history, just so I can get some idea of how his point of view was shaped.

I am also interested to know if apart from the afore mentioned works, he has
written anything else of a sf bent, or otherwise.

Cordially,
          Lino.

P.s. Replies through either email or the net would be fine with me. Thank you.
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:11651 rec.arts.sf.science:2726