HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mnb@voodoo.boeing.com (Mike Burr)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Christmas tree alternative?
Date: 19 Nov 92 02:25:03 GMT
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA

In article <lgi9grINN85d@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> maynard@anchor.Corp.Sun.COM (Alexandra R. Ohlson) writes:
>I'll play devil's advocate on this one.
>
>I would wager that most Christmas trees are grown on Christmas tree
>farms and not cut wild.  If there were no demand for the cut trees,
>the farms would not exist and the earth would miss out on the 2-4 
>years of green growth it took for the trees to mature. 

But maybe the land would have never been cleared in the first place.
Or possibly put to more "productive" uses.

>It's actually
>a lovely tradition - bringing a little of nature inside to live with.

Like most familys, the family I grew up in participated in this tradition.
But now as an adult, the concept of destroying trees mearly to decorate
your living room for a few weeks and then toss out, seems to trivialize life
and contradict the very concepts of Christmas to me.  Perhaps I'm too
sensitive about life.... I also "evict" the bugs in my house rather than
kill them.


-- 
Michael Burr  Boeing Computer Services, Bellevue WA
              Email:mnb@voodoo.ca.boeing.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: jim@doink.b23b.ingr.com (James B. Reed)
Subject: Re: Christmas tree alternative?
Reply-To: jimreed@b23b.b23b.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:00:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.161528.28937@cbnewse.cb.att.com>, pwyc@cbnewse.cb.att.com (peter.w.chen) writes:
|> I don't understand the argument that "it'll be cut down anyway".  It was cut
|> down because the X tree speculators anticipated demand for it.  If there was
|> no demand, it would not have been cut down.

Actually, if there was no demand, it would not have been planted in the
first place.  The vast majority of Christmas trees purchased in the U.S.
are grown on Christmas Tree Farms, not harvested from "the wild".

-- 
James B. Reed                | If at first you don't succeed,
Intergraph Corporation       | Find out why,
jimreed@b23b.b23b.ingr.com   | **THEN** try again.
(205) 730-8874               |
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: brighid@bass.lkw.com (Brighid)
Subject: Re: hillside retaining plants for the NE???
Organization: Lakewood Corporation
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:14:32 GMT


Sorry about losing context, but my newsreader doesn't do quoting, yet.

Someone asked how steep a slope am I working with... The mildest grade
is a 12'-14' drop over 20'. One small steep grade is a 2' to 3' drop over
about a foot. The problem areas are the edge of the front lawn
(+/- 45 degree angle over 25 feet) and the edges of the septic field 
(3 foot of drop over 5' to 6').

We live at the bottom of a granite/clay hill with seasonal springs. There
is actually very little flat ground, and all of it is artificial. :) 

Some of the rye that we planted this year was torn out in a couple 
gully-making spring/early summer storms.

thanks!

Brighid
brighid@bass.lkw.com
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Magazine: Growing for Market
Date: 23 Nov 92 17:00:31 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

In article <psmith.722529848@cunews> psmith@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Smith) writes:
>I have heard of this magazine, but I am unable to locate the
>publisher's address.  If anyone knew the address or a toll free number
>etc...I would greatly appreciate it if they would post to the group or
>to me personally.

FTP to SUNSITE.UNC.EDU and browse throught the directory tree under
/pub/docs/sustainable_agriculture. There are a number of files containing
lists of publications. I'm pretty sure there is a reference to Growing For
Market. You can also telnet to SUNSITE.UNC.EDU, login as: swais, enter
terminal emulation: (vt100 is OK), enter /sustain to locate the ag info
at SUNSITE, then do a WAIS keyword search for "growing for market".
If you need more info e-mail me at:
london@sunsite.unc.edu

Lawrence
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: heim@vms.macc.wisc.edu (JOHN HEIM	)
Subject: Re: Christmas tree alternative?
Organization:  University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center
Distribution: usa
Date: 17 NOV 92 15:17:55    

In article <1992Nov17.161528.28937@cbnewse.cb.att.com>, pwyc@cbnewse.cb.att.com (peter.w.chen) writes...

>I don't understand the argument that "it'll be cut down anyway".  It was cut
>down because the X tree speculators anticipated demand for it.  If there was
>no demand, it would not have been cut down.

Actually, it wouldn't have been grown in the first place.  By not 
buying a Xmas tree you are denying the tree of the few happy years it 
would have had - growing gleefully on a tree farm.  Except, of course, 
when the tree farmer had to shape it.  Poor little tree, unable to 
scream as it's branches were clipped so it would be the perfect shape 
for stings of popcorn.

Personally, I buy only "free range" Xmas trees.

JGH
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Almost no acorns this year
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
Date: 19 Nov 1992 03:13:40 UTC

In article <74441@apple.apple.COM> chuq@Apple.COM (Eeyore's Evil Twin) writes:
>sundare@watson.ibm.com (C. Sundaresan) writes:
>>Last year my 3 huge oak trees shed so many acorns in the fall
>>This year almost none!
>Oak trees cycle. I recently read a field study on oaks that showed they
>cycle over a period of a few years as a way of controlling predators
>(primarily field mice). There will be years with very few acorns that cause
>the mouse populations to plummet, followed by a year or two of very high
>numbers. Since the mouse populations are reduced, they aren't able to eat
>all of them, allowing some germination. Then the mouse population explodes,
>and the oaks cycle down again to reduce populations before another acorn
>cycle.
>What they aren't sure about yet is how the oaks all communicate, since they
>cycle in forest groups rather than individuals.  

There has been a great deal of research on how oaks communicate in a
forest, for example they alert each other about preditors, but little is
known about the 2-year on and off nut cycle. Almost all nut trees
display this cycle and a great deal of effort is going into studying it
since it is a major factor in commercial nut production. Some of the
effect is caused by the heavy nut load of an on year stressing the tree,
so reducing the nut set does help, but nut trees continue to sync onto
some type of two year cycle that we have no idea of. It doesn't matter
if the species are unrelated or of the same age or on opposite sides of
a major mountain range, you still get an on and an off year. Pistachios
are heavily effected by this in Calif. Nut set is also effected by poor
weather or drought, but even with ideal conditions and thining, you
still get on and off years.
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Re: horseradish
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 17 Nov 92 11:28:38 CST

In article 26331@math.ucla.edu, ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez) writes:
|I think horseradish must be one of those plants that in some locales
|turns into a rampant weed and in other places struggles along.  I have
|heard that horseradish can be QUITE invasive, but you'd never know it from 
|my garden.  Here on my "homestead" in ol' La-La Land it has stayed the
|same size for about 5 years, putting out green leaves part of the year, 
|then dying back to the roots for a few months.  It may have gotten slightly
|bigger, but has not spread in any outrageous way the way my horehound
|has done, or those horrid wild passionfruit weeds (P. caerulia).

Wow!  Somebody else uses horehound.  Nasty stuff isn't it?  Please
tell us how you use it.

|
|I could not tell from the email address where the person lived who had
|difficulty growing horse radish.  Is Cray located in California?  Maybe
|horseradish needs more winterchilling, or more humidity, to thrive and

Nope.  I'm in Minnesota.  Humid summers and awful artic winters. ;^)


|spread.  I don't know how to prepare it. I planted my own as a curiosity.
|Frankly I can't stand the taste of the stuff.  I believe roots are simply
|dug up and grated and mixed with vinegar.  I once knew a Polish women who
|mixed horseradish with shredded beets to make a condiment that was semi-
|bearable over beef and pork.

I bought this kosher variety of horseraddish once.  I believe it was 
intended for use at passover?  Anyway it was horseraddish mixed with
beets.  It wasn't my favorite way to eat it.  I like the horseraddish
stronger and I didn't like the beet in it.



---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       Old Sourdoughs never die.  They just ferment away.
From: lns@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: amber snails, Succinea sp., diet
Date: 17 Nov 92 14:49:24 -0500

Information regarding amber snails, Succinea sp., requested.  What is
the diet of this critter?  Thanks.
From: educ@unixg.ubc.ca (Vicki Domansky)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Christmas tree alternative?
Date: 17 Nov 1992 20:16:10 GMT
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca

In article <1992Nov17.092118.5813@athena.cs.uga.edu> maxfield@athena.cs.uga.edu (Joan C. Maxfield) writes:
>
>	Does anyone have any ideas for 'alternate' types of christmas
>trees?  


Ikea has a neat idea.  You "buy" a real living Christmas tree from
them, root ball and all.  Then they'll come pick it up after Christmas
and take it away to be planted, sold, or whatever.  You might check
and see if there is an Ikea store nearby, or perhaps some other stores
or groups might offer a similar service.  

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Vicki Domansky                                          educ@unixg.ubc.ca
Education Computing Services                       v_domansky@mtsg.ubc.ca
University of British Columbia                    usereduc@ubcmtsg.bitnet
From: jhb@calmasd.prime.com (Jim Bishop)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: the joy of weird plants, no matter how nasty, etc......
Date: 17 Nov 92 03:26:05 GMT
Organization: -

In article <lynx.03gi@surrey.amigans.gen.nz>, 
lynx@surrey.amigans.gen.nz (Lynsey Gedye) writes:
> In article <1992Nov13.191051.25889@math.ucla.edu> 
ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez) writes:

>>There is another wonderfully repulsive yet delightful plant. I believe its
>>Latin name is Solanum quitoense, a.k.a. "Naranjilla." 
> 
>   Whoa-mama!!!  I think I'm in love!  Naran*sigh*jilla... how the name
>   frolics off the tounge - no wonder they call them the "Golden Fruit
>   of the Andes".  

Is it pronounced naran-he-ya or naran-jil-la?

Jim
From: jhb@calmasd.prime.com (Jim Bishop)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Christmas tree alternative?
Date: 18 Nov 92 20:25:54 GMT
Organization: -

In article <1eble0INNjmi@dodge.solbourne.com>, 
rick@solbourne.com (Rick Gillespie) writes:
> 
> Here in Boulder they recycle the Christmas trees, either as mulch
> or by sinking them in lakes to act as fish habitats. Do any other
> localities do things like this? I agree it is abhorrent to just toss
> them in the landfill, but I also feel that way about all my neighbours
> that pack up their grass clippings in plastic bags in the summer.
> 

They collect and mulch Xmas trees in San Diego (or at least where I
live).  The trash collectors don't accept yard waste either.  We have
a recycling service that collects yard wastes and composts them.  We
are critically short of landfill space.  Existing landfills are close
to full and it is difficult getting new ones approved because every
community has NIMBY these days.

Of course, I compost all my own yard waste.

Jim
From: kathleen@casbs.Stanford.EDU (Kathleen Much)
Subject: Re: Q: dwarf pomegranate, curry leaf plant
Organization: Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 01:19:01 GMT

In article <Bxvx81.E2t@ra.nrl.navy.mil> nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen) writes:
>> Where are you?  On the San Francisco Peninsula, we have dwarf
>> pomegranates planted outdoors.  They are deciduous.

>Thanks, Kathleen --- I live in Maryland (between DC and B'more). 
>I've seen a dwarf pom planted outdoors (but espaliered on a south-
>facing wall) in Annapolis, which is a somewhat warmer microclime 
>than my town, so it probably would live outside if I had the space
>to put it in the ground. Unfortunately it's stuck in a pot, so it's not as
>freeze-proof as it would be if planted. Now that I know it's supposed
>to be deciduous, though, I feel ALOT better. BTW, are the fruits
>edible? Should it be watered at all in winter?

Since winter is our rainy season (when we have one), our bushes get
most of their water in winter.  We irrigate in summer when the ground
gets dry.  I don't think the dwarf pomegranates are edible, but then
I've never tried one.  Kay Klier will probably know.

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Kathleen Much, Editor		|E-mail: kathleen@casbs.stanford.EDU
CASBS, 202 Junipero Serra Blvd.	|Phone: (415) 321-2052
Stanford, CA  94305		|Fax: (415) 321-1192
From: pstryjew@colsun.Central.Sun.COM (Pete Stryjewski)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Almost no acorns this year
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:01:24 GMT
Reply-To: pstryjew@Central.Sun.COM


There is a short article in Discover (October, I think) magazine, that discusses
cycles in acorn production.  It talks about acorn production and how the rodent
population follows acorn "output".  It also mentions that individual trees seem
to be on the same production "schedule".  This may be because the trees are
all "related" (sprouted from the same parent).

If there is interest, I could summarize the article in more detail.


Pete Stryjewski
pstryjew@colsun.Central.Sun.COM
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Q: dwarf pomegranate, curry leaf plant
From: Pandora@kcbbs.gen.nz (Dawn Scotting)
Date: 21 Nov 92 03:26:58 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

>From: nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen)
>1) The dwarf pomegranate's leaves are nearly all yellow and falling
>off. Is it SUPPOSED to be deciduous or is the poor thing dying? 
 
I live in NZ so the conditions here may not be the same where you live. 
My pomegranates are not dwarf ones but I would think you would treat 
them the same. Mine grow outside all year round, they do lose all their 
leaves in winter and then sprout larger then life again in the spring. 
Do you REALLY have to bring them inside where you are? They really are 
a very hardy plant. Unfortunately our summers are not long and hot enough 
for the fruit to ripen properly but they do make a lovely show. 

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: SKLEPZI@SSB1.SAFF.UTAH.EDU (Steven Klepzig)
Subject: Sad about onions (boo hoo)
Organization: University of Utah
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 19:34:20 GMT

I'm sad.

This year was the first year I've tried growing Walla Walla onions in my 
garden.  After almost giving up on them, we had six sprout from seed.  We 
nursed them and took care of them and kept watching them very carefully.  We 
pulled a couple and they were wonderful, just a little green.

But then last night we pulled the rest of them.  Only 1 of the remaining 4 
was okay.  1 was soft (really soft), the others were moldy.

I'm sad.   :-(

I guess there's always next year...

Steven (sklepzi@ssb1.saff.utah.edu)
From: jhb@calmasd.prime.com (Jim Bishop)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Christmas tree alternative?
Date: 18 Nov 92 07:49:47 GMT
Organization: -

In article <1992Nov17.174825.14627@infonode.ingr.com>, 
jim@doink.b23b.ingr.com (James B. Reed) writes:
> In article <1992Nov17.092118.5813@athena.cs.uga.edu>, 
> maxfield@athena.cs.uga.edu (Joan C. Maxfield) writes:
> |> OK, I know this is going to sound REALLY odd, but:
> |> 	Does anyone have any ideas for 'alternate' types of christmas
> |> trees?
> 
> If you think the question is odd, wait until you read my answer...
> 
> My parents used to decorate their pencil tree in addition to having
> a "regular" tree.  I remember several visitors commenting "Look at
> that it's lost all it's leaves!"  They couldn't use any real heavy
> ornaments, but it was different.
> 
> What?  You don't know what a pencil tree is?  (I guess this
> posting could go in the "odd plants" category too.)
> 
> It's a succulent.  If I remember right, it's closely related to
> the poinsetta, but looks completely different.  

Euphorbia tirucalli

> This plant is
> almost all green stalk and green branches with tiny leaves on
> new growth that don't last too long.  I guess it's called a
> pencil tree because the branches are round and segmented (sort
> of like a bunch of pencils fastened together).  The segments are
> generally smaller than a pencil though.
> 

I used to use a euphorbia as a Christmas tree too.  I don't know the
variety but it was about 5 ft tall (6 counting the pot).  It had a
trunk that was about 6 inches in diameter with several arms.  Most
people mistake it for a cactus. I'd wrap the trunk with little rista
(SP?) lights (lights that looked like little chili peppers).  

The euphorbia has grown to about 8 feet and is on the patio now.  It
bloomed this year and has some little round fruit on it.  Hopefully
they'll turn red when it gets colder.

Jim
From: falk@peregrine.Eng.Sun.COM (Ed Falk)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: ok for morning glory vines to climb wires?
Date: 18 Nov 1992 20:59:32 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: peregrine

Hi all; the subject pretty much says it all.  I have some morning
glories that really want to climb the electrical wires that go into
my house.  Is it ok to let them go, or will they do damage?

--
		-ed falk, sun microsystems
		 sun!falk, falk@sun.com
To be loyal to rags, to shout for rags, to worship rags, to die for rags 
-- that is a loyalty of unreason, it is pure animal (Mark Twain).
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: Magazine: Growing for Market
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:41:17 GMT


Mon 18 May 92 
Newsletter: "Growing for Market"

Market gardeners are editing and publishing this new
monthly newsletter, containing details of interest
to professionals in the field.
Subscriptions cost $24 per year
in the U.S.; $27 to Canada; $32 overseas.
Sample copies are $2.00 in the U.S.; $2.50 to Canada; $3.00 overseas.
Order from Fairplain Publications
P.O. Box 365
Auburn, KS, 66402.

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: heidi@chpc.utexas.edu ((Heidi Johnson))
Subject: Re: Almost no acorns this year
Reply-To: heidi@chpc.utexas.edu
Organization: The University of Texas System CHPC
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 20:40:26 GMT

> Last year my 3 huge oak trees shed so many acorns in the fall, that
> we were rolling down the driveway and covering our heads outside.

> This year almost none! 

That's funny, I was just thinking what a powerful lot of acorns I'm
getting this year, wondering how long they'd take to compost.  (I'm
in central Texas.)  With all these acorns falling on my tin roof, it's
been like living in a war zone!  

Heidi
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: susan@gaia.arc.nasa.gov (Susan Benjamin)
Subject: Re: Christmas tree alternative?
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center - SGE
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:41:49 GMT

>In article <1992Nov17.092118.5813@athena.cs.uga.edu> maxfield@athena.cs.uga.edu (Joan C. Maxfield) writes:
>>
>>	Does anyone have any ideas for 'alternate' types of christmas
>>trees?  
>
How about an Alberta Spruce or Norfolk Island Pine?  Both are evergreens
with needles that live happily in a pot.  The spruce will need to go out
after the holidays but should do well on a balcony until next year.
I used one for several years as a living Xmas tree - they stay small,
max 8' and mine never hit 5'.  When they're sold out here (CA) they're
under 3'.
Susan Benjamin

these ideas are mine, all mine...
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: mturner@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Mark Turner)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Christmas tree alternative?
Date: 18 Nov 92 07:30:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Nov18.073033.9311
Organization: Western Washington University

Another Xmas tree alternative that my in-laws used for several years was
to construct a wire frame covered with pine cones scavenged from the
forests.  You've got the pine, and you haven't cut a tree.  You can make
it any size you want to collect enough cones for.  And it could be
collapsible to store in a big plastic bag for next year.

Mark Turner
mturner@henson.cc.wwu.edu
From: educ@unixg.ubc.ca (Vicki Domansky)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Christmas tree alternative?
Date: 18 Nov 1992 17:02:09 GMT
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca

In article <24051@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> deeds@solaria.hac.com writes:
>Joan C. Maxfield (maxfield@athena.cs.uga.edu) wrote:
>: 
>: OK, I know this is going to sound REALLY odd, but:
>: 	Does anyone have any ideas for 'alternate' types of christmas
>: trees?  
>: 
>This sounds weird but I thought it was kind of a neat idea when I 
>heard it last year (probably on the net :) ).  Apparently there are 
>places where you can *rent* a live tree (don't know what sizes are 
>available), and then after xmas they take the tree back and refund 
>the deposit portion of your money...

Ikea "sells" the trees then comes and picks them up later.  I don't
think you get a refund - as I recall it is only about $15 for a tree
anyhow - but I think they pick it up for free after Xmas. 



-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Vicki Domansky                                          educ@unixg.ubc.ca
Education Computing Services                       v_domansky@mtsg.ubc.ca
University of British Columbia                    usereduc@ubcmtsg.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: bobw@csg.uwaterloo.ca (Bob Wildfong)
Subject: Re: horseradish
Organization: Computer Systems Group, University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:46:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.195735.26331@math.ucla.edu> ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez) writes:
>I think horseradish must be one of those plants that in some locales
>turns into a rampant weed and in other places struggles along.  I have
>heard that horseradish can be QUITE invasive, but you'd never know it from 
>my garden.  Here on my "homestead" in ol' La-La Land it has stayed the
>same size for about 5 years, putting out green leaves part of the year, 
>then dying back to the roots for a few months.  It may have gotten slightly
>bigger, but has not spread in any outrageous way the way my horehound
>has done, or those horrid wild passionfruit weeds (P. caerulia).

My experience with horseradish (3 different sites) has been that it doesn't
spread outward very fast, but it does root quickly and it's very difficult
to remove.  I'd call it "permanent", but not "invasive".

P.S. My horehound spreads outrageously too.  I wanted a half-row of it but only
had three little plants.  It only took one year to get my half-row (20 feet).

Bob Wildfong                                       bobw@csg.uwaterloo.ca
Waterloo, Ontario                                  bobw@csg.waterloo.edu
AgCan zone 5a, USDA zone 4 (on a windy hilltop)

                Success in gardening is finding the right 
                 balance between tolerance and defiance.

Newsgroups: rec.gardens