From: davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami)
Subject: Re: Israel and Kuwait in the Spotlight
Organization: Technion, Israel Inst. of Technology
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 19:16:52 GMT

In article <EGGERTJ.92Sep11095302@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu> eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu writes:
>In article <1992Sep11.090154.13381@discus.technion.ac.il> davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami) writes:
>>   Of course amending the consitution is not dismantling it. I mean
>>   abolishing the first ten amendments (which I think are changeable).
>>   Amenmding the constitution is just a more fundamental legislation.
>>   this is called in Israel "Hok Yesod" - fundamental law. This is done
>>   over and over in Israel and could be changed by special majority of 2/3.
>>
>>   I certainly meant fundamental dismantling of the basic rights in the
>>   heart of the constitution not minor (or even majorxr) amendments.
>
>Which rights are those?  Read on...
>
>>   The Zionist (the precise term is Jewish) nature of the country is the
>>   raison d'etre of Israel even before Democracy. Denying it is same as
>>   denying the existence of Israel - this is of course forbidden.
>
>Ah, the right to question Jewish hegemony is forbidden.  And why?
>
>>   Arab hegemony in Isarel == Jews in the sea. (or at least those who came
>>   afetr 1917 - according to the pitiful Arafat).
>>
>>   Jews prefer their lives over theoretical equality!
>>
>>   This is not the Arab's right to kill the Jew, as it is not the Jew's
>>   to kill the Arab.
>
>Because of the canard that Arabs will necessarily kill Jews if given
>equal rights.

I'm not saying this is necessarily the outcome, it is only very likely
given past experience and present declerations. I think that Jews are
not entitled to demand Hegemony in the US (as Whites are not) or Germany
and they never dreamt of it. This is not their country they will not
dare do this. The Jews cannot leave under Arab rule , unless they agree
to be Dimmi puppets, I do not see a single non-Arab minority who has a
respectful relationship in the ME (Kurds, Maronites, Kopts), either you
kneel and gets pats in the back or you stand up and you are opressed as
a slave. 

Your demand to let Arabs call for dismantling of Zionism the same as 
letting Hitler participate in Demnocratic Elections when he specifically
decalres that he will eradicate democracy the moment he's elected
Chancellor. You want Israel to repeat the mistake of the Weimar republic 
in the name of democracy. Israel is a democracy but not at any price.
Limits have to be made - so both the State and the Democracy are
preserved. So Dismantling Zionism and Kahanism are both banned. We
cannot another Hitler: Arab or Jew.

Democracy is not the only principle and if one should make a national 
suicide and destroy the dream of Centuries just becuase some foreigner
thinks we ought to comply to some standard. The hell with the foreigner
- we will not commit suicide in order to be cheered by Americans and
Europeans.

>
>>   >>   >What is your opinion of the recent elections in Lebanon and Yemen?
>>   >>
>>   >>   Do you mean those that were boycotted by all the Christians and held
>>   >>   under the rifles and tanks of Assad?
>>   >
>>   >One should also point out that the Israeli-dominated Southern Lebanese
>>   >Army enforced an election boycott in their areas.  Funny that a
>>   >democratic Israel would be against democracy.
>>
>>   Well, who forced the Christians of Beirut? the long hand of the Mossad?
>>   I guess the Christains in the north followed their northern brethren
>>   and enforced it on the others. Israel is not interested in giving the
>>   Syrians the facade of democracy to their occupation in Lebanon - so
>>   it did nothing to overturn the SLA decision.
>
>All you are saying is that Israel is not alone in resisting democracy
>in Lebanon.  That doesn't make it any better.

No, what I was saying that this is not a democracy but a Syrian ploy to
mask their deeds, Israel shouldn't get into this trap coated with honey.

>
>>   >This has been discussed previously in t.p.m.  As I remember, there
>>   >were indeed Jewish provocations before the 1929 riots.  The riots
>>   >were, however, an overheated reaction, fueled by the Arab leadership
>>   >more than the Jewish misdeeds.
>>
>>   If you would be more specific I'll be happy to answer your data.
>
>Read the history of the period.  If you want to read about Jewish
>misdeeds in the pre- and early-Israeli days, read
>
>      AUTHOR: Bell, J. Bowyer, 1931-
>       TITLE: Terror out of Zion : Irgun Zvai Leumi, LEHI, and the Palestine
>               underground, 1929-1949 / J. Bowyer Bell.
>   PUB. INFO: New York : St. Martin's Press, c1977.
> DESCRIPTION: xi, 374 p., [14] leaves of plates : ill., maps ; 24 cm.
>
>This is a scholarly book on the subject, written by an expert in
>international terrorism.

You couldn't have been more specific than that , could you? :-)

>--
>=Jim  eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)

David.
-- 
=============================================================================
  David Ben-Ami (irc: bigdav)      |   "I can resist anything but Temptation"
  s2780369@Techst02.Technion.Ac.Il |       Oscar Wilde
  davidba@Carmel.Technion.Ac.Il  davidba@Moav.Techniona.Ac.Il