HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tmhoff@oogoody.Corp.Sun.COM (Todd Hoff)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: Programmers
Date: 9 Sep 1992 16:56:24 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: tmhoff@oogoody.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: oogoody.corp.sun.com

>Based on courses here at Rice University, here is a minimum list of
>*concepts* that a real programmer should know:

List list may be sufficient for a programmer but not for a Software
Engineer.


Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
From: slaud@cc.curtin.edu.au
Subject: Inter-process comm. with OCCAM
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 07:18:09 GMT


   Does anybody out there has any informations, or documents, or sites that I
can obtained informations on ...

	" Inter-process communication between procedures with OCCAM "

   I am required to compare inter-process communications of programming
languages, and was told OCCAM implements this very well.

   Please mail me do. Deeply appreciated. Thanks.

Daniel
From: ajtd@honey.st-and.ac.uk (Tony Davie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: Opinions on case sensitivity in programming languages?
Date: 11 Sep 92 08:37:18 GMT
Organization: St.Andrews University


> 
> In article ... tswingle@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Tom Swingle) writes:
> 
>    1.  Do you prefer programming in a language which is case-sensitive or case-
>    insensitive (or does it even make a difference to you), and why?
> 

Case sensitivity is a throwback to the days when the only input to a computer
was a teletype or a punched card. There is no excuse for languages to be case
insensitive nowadays, EXCEPT when connecting to machines which may have such
equipment attached to them. This makes it sensible to make names of machines
on a network, for instance, case-insensitive.

Tony Davie
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
From: danforth@riacs.edu (Douglas G. Danforth)
Subject: Computer Language Market Survey
Organization: RIACS, NASA Ames Research Center
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 92 00:05:55 GMT


		       COMPUTER LANGUAGE MARKET SURVEY

      (The purpose of this message is to assess a market.  If this is a
      breach of etiquette for this news group then please let me know.)
			
			reply to: danforth@riacs.edu

I have an opportunity to sell and support a "new" computer language for the
PC market (386 and up). The language has been in existence since 1978 and is
well documented with many support tools that are polished and work. The
language is truely machine independent (designed that way from the beginning)
and runs on a variety of mainframe, mini, and workstation machines. It is not
yet in the PC market, hence the opportunity.

The question I have for the readers of this news group is:

	WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO BUY SUCH A LANGUAGE?

Before you can answer I need to supply you with some more information.

(1) Possible competitor of C++.
    (a) strongly typed language.
    (b) classes.
    (c) inheritance.
    (d) garbage collection.
    (e) generic procedures.
    (f) dynamic linking.
    (g) i/o part of the language.
    (h) modules and information hiding.
    (i) foreign language interface to other languages (C).
    (j) exception handling.
    (k) coroutines.
    (l) character strings part of the language.
(2) Text editor.
(3) Source level debugger.
(4) Compiler written in the language.
(5) Relational database system written in the language.
(6) Used by a major chip design company.

				  QUESTIONS

[1] Do you use C?	Yes [ ] 	No [ ]
    Do you like it? 	Yes [ ]		No [ ]		N/A [ ]

[2] Do you use C++?	Yes [ ] 	No [ ]
    Do you like it? 	Yes [ ]		No [ ]		N/A [ ]

[3] Would you be willing to try a new language?
			Yes [ ]		No [ ]

    Why ? ----------------------------------------------------------
    Why ? ----------------------------------------------------------
    Why ? ----------------------------------------------------------
    Why ? ----------------------------------------------------------
    Why ? ----------------------------------------------------------

[4] Is telephone support of a language and its tools important to you?
                    	Yes [ ]		No [ ]		N/A [ ]


[5] What characteristics of a language are most important to you?





[6] What characteristics of programming tools are most important to you?





[7] General comments and suggestions:
From: nevin@apple.com (Nevin ":-]" Liber)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: Indentation
Date: 15 Sep 92 22:18:58 GMT
Followup-To: comp.lang.misc
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Aug27.201810.20982@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>,
ah739@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Leslie J. Somos) wrote:
> OK, I believe most people would agree that choices in program layout are
> just fluff, unimportant (in languages that don't care).

I disagree.  How many times have people been bitten by the following bug,
hidden by bad layout:

    returnCode = kNoError;
    foo = DoSomeProcessing();
     if (NULL == foo)
        fprintf(stderr, "foo ought not be NULL.\n");
        returnCode = kError;
    DoSomeMoreProcessing();
    return returnCode;

> STOP RIGHT THERE.  I, for one, will not agree that choice of variable
> names is not important.  Of course, the compiler doesn't care, about
> names or layout, that's why obfuscating programs work.
> But variable names are _very_ important to humans who must read
> programs.

And so is layout.
___
NEVIN ":-)" LIBER, RISC Porting Specialist/Blue Meanie, Mac System Software
 email:     nevin@apple.com        paper:  Apple Computer, Inc.
 voice:     (408) 974-MIX1                 20525 Mariani Avenue, MS: 81-GC
 AppleLink: BADENOV                        Cupertino, CA 95014
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
From: edwin@sfu.ca
Subject: Need info on Data General
Summary: Need info on Data General MV 10000/25000 machines
Originator: edwin@sfu.ca
Keywords: Data General, MV 10000, MV 25000
Reply-To: edwin@sfu.ca
Organization: CS, SFU, BC, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 01:19:04 GMT

Hello...

I need some information on the following things :

1)	what is "administrative laboratory computer system" ?
2)	what type of machines are Data General  MV 10000/25000 ?
		what are the functions for MV 10000/250000 ?
3)	what is EPIC/MIIS ?
		is a software called MIIS which was developed by Epic Data ?

Any information to the above questions, I will deeply appreciate for it.

--Edwin, thanks so much....
  E-mail:  edwin@sfu.ca
From: nevin@apple.com (Nevin ":-]" Liber)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: Scientists as Programmers (was Re: Small Language Wanted)
Date: 15 Sep 92 22:36:06 GMT
Followup-To: comp.edu,comp.lang.fortran,comp.lang.misc,sci.math
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <17ov89INNdls@network.ucsd.edu>, mbk@lyapunov.ucsd.edu (Matt
Kennel) wrote:
>After seeing Sather, I can't understand how C++ could be so
> needlessly complicated.  I'm just about ready to switch, but I worry about
> not having my code usable by anybody else.

In other words, even when we come up with what you like in a language, you
STILL won't use it because nobody else is risking using it either.  Why
should we bother coming up with systems that no one will use?

> 2)  Garbage collection.

I really can't see someone who wants to be able to microoptimise their code
be willing to pay the penalty for garbage collection.
___
NEVIN ":-)" LIBER, RISC Porting Specialist/Blue Meanie, Mac System Software
 email:     nevin@apple.com        paper:  Apple Computer, Inc.
 voice:     (408) 974-MIX1                 20525 Mariani Avenue, MS: 81-GC
 AppleLink: BADENOV                        Cupertino, CA 95014
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
From: e_p@unlinfo.unl.edu (edgar pearlstein)
Subject: QuickBasic vs. VisualBasic.  Comparison?
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Distribution: global
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 21:28:03 GMT



          I would like to see a comparison of QuickBasic and 
       VisualBasic (both from Microsoft), beyond all of the 
       bells and whistles that VBasic has.  
          How do they compare with regard to straight Basic 
       programming? 
          Is either one of them faster in compiling or execution?
          Is it true that VB demands more careful structuring of a 
       program?  I.e. is QB more forgiving of slight errors?   
          After compiling, do they give exactly the same code?

       Either post answers or send e-mail to e_p@unlinfo.unl.edu
                  
                     Ed Pearlstein
From: iain@sgi.com (Iain McClatchie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
Subject: Iteration in single assignment languages
Keywords: single assignment iteration
Date: 15 Sep 92 07:29:38 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics


I don't know and wonder how single assignment languages handle these three
kinds of iteration, especially the last:

1) Loops where you know over what you iterate at compile time.
   for (i = 0; i < 20; i++) ...

2) Loops where you know over what you iterate before you begin the loop.
   for (i = a; i < b; i++) {expressions not involving a,b, or i}

3) Loop where you discover over what you iterate as you iterate
   for (i = 0; abs(z) < 2.; i = i + 1) z = z*z + c;

My examples are coded in something like C, in which an array which is
iterated over by i is allocated by the programmer beforehand, and it is
his responsibility to get the size right.

In a single assignment language, I would think that the values taken on
by z must go into some array z, so that the individual values are
seperately addressable.  Supposing the compiler cannot optimize away the
array, how does it know what size it is?  Better yet, how is this third
loop written in a single assignment language?

For that matter, how is iteration over something like a directed acyclic
graph written in a single assignment language?  Is it necessary to embed
the data structure in an array and then run around it there?

I have a queer feeling that SISAL addresses many of these questions.  Can
someone give me a good suggestion for something from which to learn SISAL?

-Iain McClatchie
iain@mti.sgi.com
415-390-4527
Newsgroups: comp.lang.icon
From: goer@ellis.uchicago.edu (Richard L. Goerwitz)
Subject: Re: fail/break
Reply-To: goer@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: inet
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:38:39 GMT

ercn72@FESTIVAL.ED.AC.UK (R J Hare) asks a good question that really ought
to be answered properly.  I'll give it my best shot.  He says:

>I have a situation where I am doing something like:
>
>procedure main()
>    repeat action()
>end
>
>procedure action()
>    if test then break
>end

As far as break is concerned, the only loops it knows about are the ones
within the procedure it is invoked from.  The whole idea behind a lexically
scoped language, with procedural isolation, is that the programmer should
break his or task down into smaller units that communicate with the rest
of the program via a limited and easily controllable interface (namely arg-
ment passing).  Put more simply, when you create an action(arg) pro-
cedure, you are saying that you want to isolate a specific task having to
do with arg.  If break could break out of loops in the procedure you called
action() from, it would defeat the whole reason for isolating the procedure
in the first place.  The correct way to do what you want is to turn

    repeat {
        action()
    }
    procedure action()
        if something then break
    end

into something like this:

    repeat {
        if something then break
    }

Think what would happen if Icon control structures could be "broken" out
of from any procedure invoked from within them:  Very ugly side-effects
would certainly cause mysterious bugs, and tracebacks would not be able
to locate them!


-- 

   -Richard L. Goerwitz              goer%midway@uchicago.bitnet
   goer@midway.uchicago.edu          rutgers!oddjob!ellis!goer
From: ercn72@FESTIVAL.ED.AC.UK (R J Hare)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.icon
Subject: fail/break
Date: 8 Sep 92 14:10:01 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet


I have a situation where I am doing something like:

procedure main()
  .
  .
repeat action()
stop()
end

procedure action()
  .
  .
if test then break
  .
  .
end

in other words, I am repeating the procedure action which takes one or another
action depending on a value. Some values just bale out of the action and try
again by repeating the procedure.

My problem is this - if I replace the break in the above with fail, I seem to
get the same effect. Which is correct please, break or fail?

Thanks.

Roger Hare.
From: nowlin@isidev.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.lang.icon
Subject: Re: fail/break
Date: 9 Sep 92 00:20:24 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet


 > procedure main()
 > repeat action()
 > stop()
 > end

By the way.  Did I forget to mention that unless the action() procedure
terminates the program with a call to exit() or stop(), you have an infinite
loop here?  The failure of action() will not terminate the repeat loop.

Jerry Nowlin
From: ralph@CS.ARIZONA.EDU ("Ralph Griswold")
Newsgroups: comp.lang.icon
Subject: "debugify"
Date: 5 Sep 92 14:48:57 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet

Icon Newsletter 39 has an article on an Icon debugger by Charles
Shartsis.  His method requires modifying the "ucode" produced by
the Icon translator and specifically relies on the numerical codes
used in ucode for representing keywords.

Unfortunately, these numeric codes sometimes change.  Specifically,
the codes used in his program are for Version 8.0, and these codes
have changed in more recent releases.

His debugger in the present Icon program library and our FTP area
therefore will not work properly on the current version of Icon
for most platforms.

He is working on fixing the problem.  In the meantime, if you want to
use "debugify" on recent versions of Icon, you will need to change to
keyword codes.  We can't tell you excatly what to do, since it varies
from version to version, but you might find it an interesting exercise
to figure out what to do.
    
Ralph E. Griswold			ralph@cs.arizona.edu
Department of Computer Science 		 uunet!arizona!ralph
The University of Arizona		602-621-6609 (voice)
Tucson, AZ 85721			602-621-9618   (fax)
From: nowlin@iwtqg.att.com
Newsgroups: comp.lang.icon
Subject: Re: fail/break
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:03:00 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet


 > I have a situation where I am doing something like:
 > 
 > procedure main()
 >   .
 >   .
 > repeat action()
 > stop()
 > end
 > 
 > procedure action()
 >   .
 >   .
 > if test then break
 >   .
 >   .
 > end
 > 
 > My problem is this - if I replace the break in the above with fail, I
 > seem to get the same effect. Which is correct please, break or fail?
 > 
 > Roger Hare.

There's not enough context in your example.  The break control structure
only makes sense in the context of a loop.  Your example piece of code
contains no evidence of a loop surrounding the break.  If there is a loop
around the break, and inside the action() procedure, that loop would be the
one the break is in effect for - not the repeat loop in the main()
procedure.  In the case of this example, it looks like ONLY fail makes
sense.  You should get a translation error with an orphaned break.

Jerry Nowlin
From: cjeffery@CS.ARIZONA.EDU ("Clint Jeffery")
Newsgroups: comp.lang.icon
Subject: X-Icon has been ported to OS/2 Presentation Manager API
Date: 7 Sep 92 18:55:33 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet


Although it was designed with portability in mind, we downplayed
X-Icon's potential on other platforms for at least two reasons:

(1) The large amount of X Window code makes porting a major effort,
(2) Porting *all* its X-specific features would be near impossible.

Nevertheless, a gifted and determined programmer named Darren Merrill
of the University of Arizona has done a port of X-Icon to OS/2 2.0.
It is a near-complete port, with very few of X-Icon's features 
altered or missing.  Its graphics performance on a 486 processor is 
competitive with low-end workstations.  It is in the testing phase,
and we plan to release it when it is ready.

So, X-Icon can be ported, but it is not easy.  We are not funded to
port to other window systems and cannot justify it as research, but we
are always interested in hearing from folks who undertake such efforts.

Clint Jeffery, Icon Project
Newsgroups: comp.lang.icon
From: ralph@CS.ARIZONA.EDU ("Ralph Griswold")
Newsgroups: comp.lang.icon
Subject: X-Icon editor
Date: 5 Sep 92 14:54:49 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet

The program library in release 8.7 of Icon for UNIX and VMS has an
editor written in X-Icon.

Unfortunately when we made recent changes in X-Icon, we failed to
properly update the code in this editor.  We've now corrected the
problem, but if you picked up UNIX or VMS Icon by FTP prior to
September 1, you may have a defective copy of the editor.

We have placed corrected versions of the two files that were in error in our
FTP area, in /icon/library.  They are

	xed.icn		main program
	textedit.icn	procedure used by xed.
    
Ralph E. Griswold			ralph@cs.arizona.edu
Department of Computer Science 		 uunet!arizona!ralph
The University of Arizona		602-621-6609 (voice)
Tucson, AZ 85721			602-621-9618   (fax)

Newsgroups: comp.lang.icon
From: tfj@apusapus.demon.co.uk (Trevor Jenkins)
Subject: W3-Icon possible?
Distribution: world
Organization: Job hunters use Parachute
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 21:56:57 +0000

In issue 39 of the Icon newsletter there was an item on X-Icon but else
where it is stated that most use of Icon is on MS-DOS machines this got me
thinking as to the whether a Windows3 Icon is possible? (For me it is
desirable as I'm not likely to use Icon on anything other than a PC.)

-------------------------------------------------------------
Trevor Jenkins                                   Radio: G6AJG
134 Frankland Rd, Croxley Green, Rickmansworth, WD3 3AU
email: tfj@apusapus.demon.co.uk
phone: +44 (0)923 776436
From: goer@MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU ("Richard L. Goerwitz")
Newsgroups: comp.lang.icon
Subject: bug; 8.6 + UNIX + keyboard functions + compiler
Date: 10 Sep 92 18:56:09 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet

When I compile in keyboard functions with 8.6, the linking phase
with my C compiler turns up a missing _keyboard_error function in
one of the rt.a object files.  This does not occur when the pro-
gram in question is interpreted.

-Richard

Newsgroups: comp.lang.icon
From: goer@ellis.uchicago.edu (Richard L. Goerwitz)
Subject: Re: W3-Icon possible?
Reply-To: goer@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 04:50:12 GMT

tfj@apusapus.demon.co.uk (Trevor Jenkins) writes:

>In issue 39 of the Icon newsletter there was an item on X-Icon but else
>where it is stated that most use of Icon is on MS-DOS machines this got me
>thinking as to the whether a Windows3 Icon is possible?  (For me it is
>desirable as I'm not likely to use Icon on anything other than a PC.)

It would be ideal to have Icon implemented under every windowing system
in existence, in the sense of providing X-Iconish functionality - espe-
cially under popular ones like the OS/2 presentation manager, the Mac, and
Windows.  Doing so would not be at all impossible.  The specs for X-Icon
have been written up as part of a U of Arizona technical report.  If you
were to try your hand at implementing X-Icon functionality under Win-
dows, I'm sure you'd be able to count on support from other users here,
as also from the Icon Project itself - although one suspects that they are
probably busy enough just designing and implementing the base language for
their platforms that Windows would not be a high priority for them.

-- 

   -Richard L. Goerwitz              goer%midway@uchicago.bitnet
   goer@midway.uchicago.edu          rutgers!oddjob!ellis!goer
From: imc@comlab.ox.ac.uk (Ian Collier)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx
Subject: Re: Curious Question
Date: 11 Sep 92 10:48:50 GMT
Organization: Oxford University Computing Laboratory, UK
X-Local-Date: Friday, 11th September 1992 at 11:48am BST
Originator: imc@msc2.comlab

In article <Leon_Davidoff.04fe@panam.wimsey.bc.ca>, Leon_Davidoff@panam.wimsey.bc.ca (Leon Davidoff) wrote:

>What I would like to know is why b in Test1 is assigned the value ' y'
>while in Test2 the value is 'y'.

The reason is because the writer of ARexx (at least until v1.15 - if I
remember correctly) didn't read a full description of the parse instruction
closely enough before implementing it (IMHO).

You may know that in:

parse value "  alpha  beta  gamma  delta  " with a b c d

a, b and c contain no blanks whatsoever, whereas d may (and in fact does in
this case).  Because d is the last name in a list of symbols, it retains all
the blanks which were not eaten by the preceeding template.  ARexx takes
this to mean that d contains two leading blanks and two trailing blanks.
However, the truth is that the blank which immediately follows "gamma" was
used up in order to separate "gamma" from " delta  " - and so d should only
contain one leading blank.

A consequence of this is that in:

parse value "1 2 3" with a b c

ARexx retains the space which precedes the "3", whereas standard Rexx does
not.  There are two fixes to this: (a) [when c might contain multiple words]
say "c=strip(c)" just after parsing, and (b) [when c must contain at most
one word] follow the template with a dot, as in:

parse value "1 2 3" with a b c .

Ian Collier
Ian.Collier@prg.ox.ac.uk | imc@ecs.ox.ac.uk
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 06:51:37 PDT
From:         Dave Gomberg <GOMBERG@UCSFVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Looking for a solution
              10 Sep 1992 09:12:58 EST from <KMITRA@CCVM.WCUPA.EDU>

If ESC, is your only problem, you can redefine it in your YTERM terminal
tables.  Dave
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx
From: giguere@csg.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Giguere)
Subject: Re: REXX on UNIX?
Organization: Computer Systems Group, University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 20:47:01 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.190446.21524@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com> c23mld1@kocrsv01 writes:
>Are there any public domain implementations of REXX available for 
>Unix systems, and if so where can they be found?

All three free versions are found on rexx.uwaterloo.ca in /pub/freerexx.

(BTW, I will be updating and reposting the REXX FAQ soon, so if you have
anything to add, send it to me...)

-- 
 Eric Giguere                                    giguere@csg.UWaterloo.CA
          So is Windows NT short for "Windows, NOT?"  
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx