From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: The Crimes of Nicaragua: Ending "Systematic Repression"
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<brian.717030661@coombs> <1992Sep22.220907.27779@oracle.us.oracle.com>
	<rich.717533326@pencil> <JMC.92Sep26121548@SAIL.Stanford.EDU>
	<brian.717809668@coombs>
Date: 29 Sep 92 21:39:41

In article <brian.717809668@coombs> brian@coombs.anu.edu.au (Brian) writes:

   jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:

   >In article <rich.717533326@pencil> rich@pencil.cs.missouri.edu (Rich Winkel) writes:

   >   In <1992Sep22.220907.27779@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
   >   >Nope.  The Sandinistas were not elected.  Moreover, when they were
   >   >finally forced to have an election they lost.

   >   What bullshit.  Why don't you read a book about it before you show off
   >   your ignorance.

   >   Rich

   >I did read a book about it, and while Michael Friedman oversimplifies
   >a bit, he is substantially correct. 

		John, is one book your idea of research?  I'm
     surprised that someone who is so willing to push the
     complexities of mathematics on the net (in your signature)
     is willing to accept such a simplistic explanation of what
     occurred in Nicaragua.  You seem, in this statement to be
     completely dismissive of the role that your own government
     played in what occurred in Nicaragua.  Could if be that you
     are in fact in favour of paternalistic imperialism (either
     overt or covert) and refuse to accept the idea that the
     Nicaraguan people themselves possess the ability to make
     decisions for themselves WRT to what form of government that
     they want.  Is that the impression that you are trying to
     give?

   >					 Moreover, the Sandinistas still
   >don't recognize the right of the elected government to dismantle their
   >army.

	   There army or the "peoples' army" which could be said to be the only
   thing which is standing between them and a return to the old oligarch


   --
   Brian Ross____________________________________________________________________
	   "If this is the revolution, why are the drinks so fucking expensive?"
		   - unsigned Graphitto, Paris, 1968
   ______________________________________________________________________________

1. Rich only asked me to read one book.

2. As I recall, you didn't even read that book, "Blood of Brothers"
by Stephen Kinzer, when I sent it to you.

3. The book did deal with the role of the U.S. Government, but it
also dealt with the Sandinista oppressiveness.  Kinzer had been
pretty much a supporter of the Sandinistas when he went to Nicaragua
as the _New York Times_ correspondent, and he was the man who
found the Contra camps in Honduras that the U.S. and Honduras were
trying to hide.

4. Anyone with an army can say anything about what that army is for.
However, democracy does involve the control of the armed forces by
the winner of the elections.

5. My signature doesn't refer to higher mathematics.  The arithmetic
I mean is that which, for example, enables one to go from the amount
of megawatts produced by windmills to the fraction of American electricity
requirements they produce.  In a speech urging his fellow engineers to
get into politics, John Sununu said, "Congress needs more people who
know the difference between a million and a billion."
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.