From: slhw4@cc.usu.edu (Jason Hunsaker)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Mormonism
Date: 15 Dec 92 17:28:09 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <e9KT02da2eTu01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>,
 agr00@ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose) writes:
> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:
 
>> First, you didn't quote but a tiny snippet of the King Follett Discourse,
>> not the "whole speach <sic>".  I consider it a wonderful speech, and
>> value it beyond any of Paul's Epistles for theology, if you really
>> want to know what I think!  If you want to type it in, we can deal
>> with it.  It wasn't on the Trinity, but on the fact that God and
>> man are the same kind and species.  That is a more radical idea
>> than you have been criticizing anyhow, is it not?
> 
> Yes, radical, and HERETICAL!  Nowhere does the Bible even entertain the
> thought that man and God are the same kind of species.  It testifies
> exactly the opposite!

Depends on one's interpretation.

"we are the children of God" (Romans 8:16)
"all of you are children of the Most High" (Psalms 82:6)
"But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of
the Lord are changed into the same image from glory to glory,
even as by the Spirit of the Lord." (2 Corinthians 3:18)
"For we are also his offspring." (Acts 17:28)
"when he shall appear, we shall be like him" (1 John 3:2)
"Ye are the children of the Lord your God" (Deuteronomy 14:1)
"Ye are the sons f the living God" (Hosea 1:10)
"Have we not all one Father" (Malachi 2:10)
"[Christ] Who being in the form of God ... was made in the
likeness of men" (Philippians 2:6-7)
"be holy: for I ... am holy" (Leviticus 19:2; 1 Peter 1:16)
"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father" (Matthew 5:48)

[...]
> When I talk about being saved, I am talking about spending eternity in
> the presence of God.  You do not believe that all but a few will do that.
> Your universal salvation is the same as resurrection and only gets
> Mormons in good standing to the position of spending eternity with God.
> 
> Everyone else gets one of the other two "kingdoms", but God is only in
> the Heaven where Mormons who have been married in the temple will spend
> eternity.  Therefore, when I speak of "saved" I am taking about what you
> would consider "celestial kingdom".  And isn't it true that non-Mormons
> are the only ones that will get there?  Therefore, you can't say that
> you believe everyone is saved in the sense that most will spend eternity
> in the presence of God. Only married Mormons will do that.

No, Tony, one does not need to be married in order to attain
celestial glory.  Christ will preside over the terrestial glory,
and the Holy Ghost will preside over the telestial glory.  So in
one sense a person in anyone of there three glories will dwell in
the presence of God since a member of God head will preside over
each.

>> Second, my interest in religion has nothing to do
>> with my wanting to be saved.  I know you probably find this almost
>> incredible to believe from your perspective, but it is really
>> true.
> 
> I believe that more than you know.  I know many Mormons who are not
> interested in know Truth, they are in the church for social reasons
> only.  I respect them telling me so.

No, Tony, there are many Mormons that have faith in God, and cold
hard interpretations of the facts do little to augment or
diminish this faith.  This kind of faith in God comes only by
asking that God give it to you (aka grace).

>> Third, I do accept the atonement of the Savior most readily. 
>> But I find it somewhat offensive that you think that someone
>> could reach out to Jesus, accept his atonement, and be rejected
>> because of some theological error in their belief about His
>> nature.  I really don't think Jesus was the kind of person who
>> would insist upon rigorous correctness of belief of those who
>> ask him for help.  I'm sorry you do.  Fortunately, I am as
>> certain as can be that you are wrong, so those you so readily
>> would send to hell need fear nothing. 
>
> If you reach out to the wrong Jesus, the real one will have no
> mercy on  you.  

Really?  C.S. Lewis, a non-Mormon and noted Christian writer,
didn't seem to think so.

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Jason Hunsaker  -|-  Logan, Utah  -|-  Internet: slhw4@cc.usu.edu