From: rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Homophobic? Re-Read Your Bible
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:46:46 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <27189@life.ai.mit.edu> benjamin@rice-chex.ai.mit.edu (Benjamin Renaud) writes:
>
>
> Ok, by popular demand, i typed up the Op-Ed page article about
>homosexuals and the Bible from August 17th, 1992 in the New York
>Times. It's a cool article i think, even though i know diddly-squat
>about religion.

Here is a repost of mine, which addresses this issue.  The rest of 
the artile from Op-Ed follows, for those who want to compare.

For Christ and His Kingdom,
Richard Pitts

---------begin repost------------
The subject of sexual activity often comes up and some use the Bible
to say some types are wrong and some use it to say it is ok or not wrong.

It seems many strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.

I would like to submit that for those who claim the name of Christ
and so use the Bible as a basis of their belief, in that it points to
Jesus the Christ - their Saviour, that they should not be picking at 
specific words and then saying 'this word is not clear' and so the Bible 
doesn't forbid this or that action.  Being wise in sexual relationship 
is what we should be about - not living on the border or walking a thin 
line.  I don't think anyone who claims the name of Christ would advocate 
being involved in sexual activity that is not living a life worthy of 
the calling we have.  Paul placed such activities in a special 
category by saying that those who do such sin against their body, for 
all other sin is not against one's body (I Cor 6:18).  The book of 
Proverbs provides many words of wisdom and often it address the subject
of sexual immorality and how it is to be avoided.

I will present the position that the Bible's aim (God's aim) is for
men to marry women and not men to marry men or women to marry women.
Also, that this marriage is to be for a life-time and treated with
respect both before and after the wedding day.  And it is in light 
of the clear emphasis of the purpose of marriage one should interpret 
'unclear passages' and live their life, if one is a believer.  Walk 
on the high road and not near the ditch.

This marriage between a man and a women is a special commitment and
is not to be taken lightly - it can and should symbolize the relation-
ship between Christ and the church (the believers).

The overwhelming emphasis is on directives for hetrosexual marriage.
From the beginning the emphasis was for a man and a woman to marry.

   Gen 2:23   The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my
     flesh; she shall be called 'woman, ' for she was taken out of man."
   Gen 2:24   For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be
     united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
   Gen 2:25   The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

Jesus emphasized this to by quoting the above:

   Mat 19:4   "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the
      Creator 'made them male and female,'
   Mat 19:5   and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and
      mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh' ?
   Mat 19:6   So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has
      joined together, let man not separate."

Paul said the same thing -

   Eph 5:31   "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be
      united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."
   Eph 5:32   This is a profound mystery--but I am talking about Christ and
      the church.
   Eph 5:33   However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves
      himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

The specific laws on marriage throughout Leviticus and Dueteronomy are 
directed at a man and a women.  These laws cover areas BEFORE and AFTER 
marriage.  If marriage between two people of the same sex was even faintly 
given approval, as some proclaim, there would be plenty of laws covering 
conduct between members of the same sex, would there not?

Scattered throughout the scriptures are statements stressing the
advocated way  - that is for men to marry women and for women to marry men.

   Jer 29:6   Marry and have sons and daughters; find wives for your sons and
     give your daughters in marriage, so that they too may have sons and
     daughters. Increase in number there; do not decrease.

Note the purpose here was to increase - it takes a man and a woman.

If members of the same sex had approval to co-habitate or whatever, then
the laws against intermarriage with pagan nations would also disallow
same sex relations, for the same reason (to prevent the detestable 
practices and worship of foreign gods from entering nation of Israel.)
Surely these types of relationships are not immune to the influence of 
pagan believes.  Some examples of restrictions on marriage between the 
people of God and pagans are:

   Gen 28:1   So Isaac called for Jacob and blessed him and commanded him: "Do
     not marry a Canaanite woman.

   Ezra 9:12   Therefore, do not give your daughters in marriage to their sons
     or take their daughters for your sons. Do not seek a treaty of
     friendship with them at any time, that you may be strong and eat the
     good things of the land and leave it to your children as an everlasting
     inheritance.'

Following this up in the New Testament Paul tells believers to not to be 
unequally yoke (married) to one who does not believe.  Paul also makes the
following statement -

   1 Cor 7:33   But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this
      world--how he can please his wife--
   1 Cor 7:34   and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is
      concerned about the Lord's affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord
      in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the
      affairs of this world--how she can please her husband.

Again, I don't believe same sex relationships are exempt from the possibility
of dividing one's interests - and so another straw pointing to the fact
that marriage and the sexual relationship is for a man and a woman.

Now concerning activities that the Bible speaks against, we have have some
pretty clear directives and these pertain to activities between man and man,
woman and animal, and so on.

From the OT

   Lev 18:22   "'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that
      is detestable.
   Lev 18:23   "'Do not have sexual relations with an animal and
      defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an
      animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.
   Lev 18:24   "'Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways,
      because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out
      before you became defiled.

and from the NT

   Rom 1:26   Because of this, God gave them over to shameful
      lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for
      unnatural ones.
   Rom 1:27   In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations
      with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men
      committed indecent acts with other men, and received in
      themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
   Rom 1:28   Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to
      retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved
      mind, to do what ought not to be done.

Paul gives us a guide line for what is 'acceptable' for a believer and
what is the grounds for a believer to draw the line on fellowshipping
with another who claims the name of Christ - not for those who aren't
believers -

   1 Cor 5:9   I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually
      immoral people--
   1 Cor 5:10   not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral,
      or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have
      to leave this world.
   1 Cor 5:11   But now I am writing you that you must not associate with
      anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an
      idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do
      not even eat.
   1 Cor 5:12   What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church?
      Are you not to judge those inside?
   1 Cor 5:13   God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among
      you."

Note: Paul said that God will judge those outside.

Paul then gives warning about who will be enter the kingdom of God - note
he doesn't limit his list to what one might call 'the bad sins', but 
includes greed and slander, among others.

   1 Cor 6:9   Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the
      kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually
      immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes
      nor homosexual offenders 
   1 Cor 6:10   nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor
      slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
   1 Cor 6:11   And that is what some of you were. But you were
      washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of
      the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

From the OT, we have the following passages from Gen 19 and Judges 19.
I've heard people says that the men who came to the respective doors
were not homosexuals - I ask what does the word Sodom (the name of the
city) mean?  Anyway, in Gen 19:7 and Judges 19:23, we have a assessment 
of the good of the activity these men wanted to do and that being
WICKED, VILE AND DISGRACEFUL - regardless of what you call what they
wanted to do or what they did.  If it wasn't homosexual activity, what
were these men wanting to do?

   Gen 19:4   Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the
      city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
   Gen 19:5   They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight?
      Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
   Gen 19:6   Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
   Gen 19:7   and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

   Judg 19:22   While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of
      the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the
      old man who owned the house, "Bring out the man who came to your house
      so we can have sex with him."
   Judg 19:23   The owner of the house went outside and said to them,  "No, my
      friends, don't be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don't do this
      disgraceful thing.

Again, I'd like to say that of those who call on the name of Christ we should
be living above the idea that there is no specific rule against this or that
or that word is not clear.  We are called to walk wisely.  As Paul put it
in Eph 4:1 "LIVE A LIFE WORTHY OF THE CALLING YOU HAVE RECEIVED."

Look at the clear teachings and so avoid sexual immorality.  I close with
these following verses.  

   1 Cor 6:18   Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are
      outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.
   1 Cor 6:19   Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit
      who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
   1 Cor 6:20   you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your
      body.

   1 Cor 6:13   "Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"--but God will
      destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for
      the Lord, and the Lord for the body.

   2 Cor 12:21   I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me
      before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and
      have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which
      they have indulged.

   1 Th 4:2   For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of
      the Lord Jesus.
   1 Th 4:3   It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should
   avoid sexual immorality;
   1 Th 4:4   that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way
      that is holy and honorable,
   1 Th 4:5   not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God;
   1 Th 4:6   and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take
      advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have
      already told you and warned you.
   1 Th 4:7   For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.

   1 Th 5:22   Avoid every kind of evil.

   Heb 13:4   Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept
      pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

It seems many strain at a gnat and swallow a camel - don't let it be named 
among you.

>THIS IS A TOTALLY UNAUTHORIZED TRANSCRIPT AND IS LIABLE TO BE FILLED
>WITH TYPOS, AND EVEN TOUGH I TRIED TO TO A DECENT JOB I TAKE -NO-
>RESPONSABILITY FOR ANYTHING RELATING TO THIS ARTICLE.
>
>********************************************************************
>
>HOMOPHOBIC? RE-READ YOUR BIBLE, By Peter J. Gomez, NYT AUG 17, 1992
>
>********************************************************************
>
>Peter J. Gomez, an American Baptist minister, is professor of
>Chrisitian morals at Harvard.
>
>Cambridge Mass.
>
>Opposition to gays' civil rights has become one of the most visible
>symbol of American civil conflict this year, and religion has become
>the weapon of choice. The army of the discontented, eager for clear
>villains and simple solutions and ready fro a crusade in which
>political self-interest and social anxiety can be cloaked in morality,
>has found hatred of homosexuality to be the last respectable prejudice
>of the century.
>
>Ballot of initiatives in Oregon and Maine would deny homosexuals the
>protection of civil rights laws. The Pentagon has steadfastly refused
>to allow gays in the armed forces. Vice President Dan Quayle is
>crusading for "traditional family values." And Pat Buchanan, who is
>scheduled to speak at the Republican National Convention this evening,
>regards homosexuality as a litmus test of moral purity.
>
>Nothing has illuminated this crusade more effectively than a work of
>fiction, "The Drowning of Stephen Jones," by Bette Greene. Preparing
>for her novel, Ms greene interviewed more than 400 young men
>incarcerated for gay-bashing, and scrutinized their case studies. In
>an interview published in the Boston Globe this pring, she said she
>found that the gay-bashers generally saw nothing wrong in what they
>did, and, more often than not, said theur religious leaders and
>traditions sanctionned their behavior. One convicted teen-age
>gay-basher told her that the pastor of his church has said,
>"Homosexuals represent the devil, Satan," and that the Rev. Jerry
>Falwell had echoed that charge.
>
>Christians opposed to political and social equality for homosexuals
>nearly always appeal to the moral injunction of the Bible, claiming
>that the Scripture is very clear on the matter and citing verses that
>support their opinions. They accuse others of perveting and distorting
>texts contrary to their "clear" meaning. They do not, however,
>necessarily see quite as clear a meaning in biblical passages on
>economical conduct, the burdens of wealth and the sin of greed.
>
>Nine Biblical citations are customarily invoked as relating to
>homosexuality. Four (Deutoronomy 23:17, I Kings 14:24, I Kings 22:46
>and II Kings 23:7) simply forbid prostitution, by men and women. Two
>others (Leviticus 18:19-23 and Leviticus 20:10-16) are part of what
>biblical scholars calls the Holiness Code. The code explicitly bans
>homosexual acts. But it also prohibits eating raw meat, planting two
>different kinds of seed in the same field and wearing garments with
>two different kinds of yarn. Tattoos, adultery and sexual intercourse
>during a woman's menstrual period are similarly outlawed.
>
>There is no mention of homosexuality in the four Gospels on the New
>Testament. The moral teachings of Jesus are not concerned with the
>subject. Three references from St. Paul are frequently cited (Romans
>1:26-2:1, I Corinthians 6:9-11 and I Timothy 1:10). But St. Paul was
>concerned with homosexuality only because in Greco-Roman culture it
>represented a secular sensuality in anyone, including homosexuals. To
>say that homosexuality is bad because homosexuals are tempted to do
>morally doubtful things is to say that heterosexuality is bad because
>heterosexuals are likewise tempted. For St. Paul, anyone who put his
>or her interest ahead of God's is condemned, a verdict that falls
>equally upon everyone.
>
>And lest we forget Sodom and gonorrah, recall that the story is not
>about sexual perversion and homosexual practice. It's about
>inhospitality, according to Luke 10:10-13, and failure to care for the
>poor, according to Ezekiel 16:49-50: "Behold, this was the inequity of
>thy sister Sodom, pride, fullness of bread, and abundance of idleness
>was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand
>of the poor and the needy." This suggest that Sodom and gomorrah is
>about homosexual sex ia an analysis of about as much worth as
>suggesting that the story of Jonah and the whale is a treatise on
>fishing.
>
>Part of the problem is a question of interpretation. Fundamentalists
>and literalists, the storm troopers of the religious right, are
>terrified that the Scripture, "worongly interpreted," may separate
>them from their values. That fear stems from their own recognition
>that their "values" are not derived from the Scripture, as they
>publicly claim.
>
>Indeed, it is through the lens of their own prejudices and personal
>values that they "read" Scripture and cloak their own views in its
>authority. We all interpret the Scripture: Make no mistake. An no one
>truly is a literalist, despite pious temptation. The question are, By
>what principle of interpretationdo we proceed, and by what means do we
>reconcile "what it meant then" to "what it means now?"
>
>These matters are far too important to be left to scholars ans
>semnarians alone. our ability to judge ourselves and others rests on
>our ability to interpret Scripture intelligently. The right use of the
>Bible, anexercise as old as the church itself, means that we confront
>our prejudices rather than merely confirm them.
>
>For Christians, the principle by which the Scripture is read is
>nothing less than the appreciation of the work and will of God as
>revealed in that of Jesus. to recover a liberating and inclusive
>Christ is to be freed from the semantic bondage thatmakes us curators
>of a dead culture rath than the creature of a new creation.
>
>Religious fundamentalism is dangerous because it cannot accept
>ambiguity abd diversity and is therefore inherently intolerant. Such
>intolerance, in the name of virtue, is ruthless and uses political
>power to destroy what it cannot convert.
>
>It is dangerous, especially in America, because it is anti-democratic
>and is suspicious of "the other," in whatever form that "other" might
>appear. To maintain itself, fundamentalism must always define "the
>other" as deviant.
>
>But the chief reason that fundamentalism is dangerous is that, at the
>hand of Rev Pat. Robertson, the Rev. Jerry flawell, and hundreds of
>lesser-known but equally worrisome clerics, preachers and pundits, it
>uses the Scripture and the Chrsitian practice to encourage ordinarily
>good people to act upon their fears rather than their virtues.
>
>Fortunately, those who speak for the religious right do not speak for
>all American Chrisitians, and the Bible is not theirs alone to
>interpret. the same Bible that the advocates of slavery used to
>protect their wicked self-interests is the Bible that inspired slaves
>to revolt and their liberators to action.  The same Bible that the
>predecessors of Mr. Falwell and Mr. Roberstson used to keep white
>churches white is the source of inspiration of the Rev. Martin Luther
>King Jr. and the social reformation of the 1960's. The same Bible that
>anti-feminists use to keep women silent in churches is the Bible that
>preaches liberation of captives and says that the Christ is neither
>male nor female, slave nor free.
>
>And the same Bible that nf the basis of an archaic of ancient Israel
>and a tortured reading of Paul is used to condemn all homosexuals
>behavior includes metaphors of redemption, renewal, inclusion and love
>- principles that invite homosexuals to accpet their freedom and
>responsibility in Christ and demands that their fellow Christians
>accept them as well.
>
>The policy of piety of the fundamentalist religous right must not be
>exercised at the expenses of our precious freedoms. And in this summer
>of our discontent, one of the most precious freedoms for which we must
>all fight is freedom from this last prejudice. |-
>
>
>***********************************************************************
>
>Hope you enjoyed it, took some time to type :)
>
>Benjamin.
>
>"I would like to welcome President Bush, Mrs Bush and my fellow
>astronauts..." - Dan Quayle
>
>When you vote for George Bush, you vote for Dan Quayle.


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