HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: greg.ipp@rose.com (greg ipp)
Subject: Re: AMIGA TECHNO
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:10:06 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 01-08-93 14:58
Quoted From: jakub.ludwinski@satalink.com (Jakub Ludwinski)
> 
> Anyone has a AMIGA? I have about 30 techno mods [modules] and a TON of
> demos all incorporating psychodelic [sp] graphics and awesome grooves.
> Recently I got a demo which won $2500 prize that is THE BEST TECHNO song
> with really fuckin great visual effect. This shit could be shown on TV
> and no one would EVER guess it was done on a $500 computer and played
> from a 880k. This looks like it is from a CD ROM! spectacular! it is
> really hard to describe. But if have an AMIGA and wanna see it lemme
> know [I'll give you my BBS number so u can dl it] since I got mail
> access here ONLY.
> 
> JAKE MON
> 
> ========================================================================
> This is about people with Kraftwerk and Pierre, Transmat and WARP, 808,
>  909, and 303 encoded in their DNA. This is a live transmission of the
>    beat you can't defeat, sampled over and over and hideously mutated.
>          If you don't understand it, you don't deserve to.
> -> THIS IS THE PHUTURE, RIGHT NOW, AND THIS IS THE SOUND OF ALTERN 8<-
> ========================================================================
>                                                                         
>

You know, we can do that on IBMs too.  We aren't all that musically 
inept.

rev@cibbs.uucp / greg.ipp@rose.com
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Newsgroups: alt.rave
From: tsines@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (enhanced invisible life [Todd Sines])
Subject: Re: USA is *way* behind Europe (Was: YO HO!)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:27:16 GMT

no shit! america is the big rip off of everything... jeezuz.


i just marvel at how much we take from others without due respect. shit.



maybe i'll go move to england or something. bleech




sines
-- 
| ___|   | | |_| |/ | \|   | | ___| ___|  _ \  enhanced * body release
| ___| | | |  _  |  _  | | | | |__| ___| |_| | tsines@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
|____|_|___|_| |_|_| |_|_|___|____|____|_____| todd sines; 614.299.9529
                                               384 e17th av, columbus, oh 43201
From: jakub.ludwinski@satalink.com (Jakub Ludwinski)
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Subject: MORE SHIT
Date: 9 Jan 93 22:44:00 GMT
Reply-To: jakub.ludwinski@satalink.com (Jakub Ludwinski)
Organization: Datamax/Satalink Connection * Ivyland, PA (215) 443-9434

part 3...music disks

MUSIC-081
Northstar Dead Dance. GREAT THRASH music! withi digitized pictures,
analyzers etc. Contains one long tune [few minutes long].

MUSIC-164
Maniac Raves II - The BEST TECHNO music disk up to date! 3  MB of
samples and music done in ProTracker! the highest quality! Included
bonus animation with Bart Simpson!

MUSIC-201
Flash Acid House Music. Great mixes by Commando of Flash Productions.
Contains the following mixes: The Power, Touch Me, Keep Bustin.

MUSIC-211
Anarchy Captured Imagination. Another great disk with music collected by
the guys at Anarchy. This one contains the following songs: Close To The
Edge, Lunawaves At Sunset, Auf Weidersein Monty, Forests, Cluster, Red
Sector Theme, Heli, Dark Water, Rocking' Ruler, Wizardry, Farting
Kippers
Ahoy, Ace II, Led Storm, Fantasma.

MUSIC-231
Anarchy Twisters Earwax Collection I. More tunes from Anarchy, contains
following music: After The Rain, Behind Your Back, County Song,
Dark Water Disty Wister, Hemisphere, Rockin' Ruler, Disty Wister II.

MUSIC-241
Silents The Sounds Of Silents. Jesper Kyd is back with more killer
music!
This is one of the all time best music disks. Contains the following
tunes
Apocalypse, Next Decade, China Girl, Highlands, Slide, Spirit, Space
Song.

MUSIC-251
Crusaders Freakd Out. More great stuff from the famous Crusaders like:
Bridge To The Universe, Freezing, Backpopped, Shara, Ecstacy, RAA.

MUSIC-271
Cadcam Rock It I. OH boy, yet another cool music disk. This one contains
the following: Batman is Alive, Airwolf Theme, Dhooee II, Gammon Tunest,
Remix I, Sid Remix II, Magnetic Fields V.

MUSIC-281
System Z & Infocorner Music Collection I. Kick ass acid re-mixes from
various artits. Contains: Sexomatic, Get Busy, 49ers, 2 In A Room,
Excited.

MUSIC-291
System Z & Infocorner Music Collection II. More acid remixes, second
part
to the above disk. Contains: House Rock, Heavy Rock, Wild Copper Remix,
Extasee.

MUSIC-421
Flash Digital Concert VI [10 minute mega mix]

MUSIC-451
Shining 8 Technomania II.

MUSIC-431
Techno Fever

MUSIC-472
Maniac Raves I. REALLY COOL STUFF!!! MUST HAVE! this and MANIAC RAVES
II...

MUSIC-521
Flash Production Digital Concert V. Another mega mix..cool!

MUSIC-551
Scoopex, Phenomena & Rebels Crystal Symphonies. One of the best music
disks done by three different groups...

MUSIC-561
D-mob Batdance Remix.

MUSIC-612
The Evil Forces Giga Mix. This is a 2 disk set, uses 6bit samples to
reserve space, but this is the LONGEST TERA MIX EVER!

MUSIC-621
RamJam Techno Groove.

MUSIC-631
Sect Music Disk. This one is a blast too! cool remix..not techno really
but cool anyways

MUSIC-691
Rythm Nation Music Disk.

MUSIC-761
Bastards Techno Trance III.

MUSIC-841
Silents Blue House Music Disk.
From: jhawes@everest.srd.bt.co.uk (Jaz the AMIGA man)
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Subject: Re: ALTERN8 (group naming)
Date: 12 Jan 93 13:10:23 GMT
Reply-To: jhawes@srd.bt.co.uk
Organization: British Telecom

From article  by ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (perpetually living):
> 
> I guess it just says something about the pathetic state of my life
> right now, but this Altern8 thing is bothering me....I was about to
> follow up to a post and ask if anyone could verify the rumor that
> Altern8 was no more, and then I read this post and see they're going
> back to Nexus 21....Is it just me, or is consistency a *goodthing*
> when going through the 12" bins?  I dunno, I can't explain it, I just

> don't see why after the majority of their popularity came as Altern8
> that they'd go back to Nexus 21....Maybe it's self hypnosis...
> And who knows, sooner or later they might even decide to run for
> office...Next thing ya know those crazy guys 'll be doing wierd stuff
> with sheep on national television....
> 
> Btw, Moby has changed his name to Voodoo Child...Oh and umm, I just
> heard on the radio that Voodoo Child has just been renamed
> Brainstorm... 
> 
> Oh, and umm, the KLF are back in the business with The Grey Room...
> 
> Pranky pranky wanky....

This is a problem with following rave music, but I shouln't worry about
it too much because singles get deleted of catalog lists after a year
or so, so in 5 years time the prodigy and altern8 will be the only
artists that ever existed . . . more or less.

Jaz


--
-----
 o o    >>>> jhawes@srd.bt.co.uk <<<<           hawes_j_n@bt-web.bt.co.uk
  |     
 \_/    "IN OUR SICK SOCIETY, EVERYONE IS SICK"  - the feedback principal
Newsgroups: alt.rave
From: pet@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (paul eng-yi tan)
Subject: QUASAR - 7 Stars, looking for...CD
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 00:36:16 GMT

Hi, a friend is looking for QUASAR's 7 stars on CD.
If you've got it, would you be able to email me a review?
Is this disc still available?
Thanks!

Morgen das SonnenSystem!

     _/_/_/_/_/_/_/                  
      _/_/     _/_/  			           _/_/
     _/_/     _/_/   _/_/_/_/_/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
    _/_/_/_/_/_/   _/_/    _/_/    _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
   _/_/           _/_/    _/_/    _/_/    _/_/  _/_/   
  _/_/           _/_/    _/_/    _/_/    _/_/  _/_/   
_/_/_/            _/_/_/_/_/_/  _/_/_/_/_/_/  _/_/_/_/_/_/

For a cassette of SonnenSystem tracks, studio produced and mastered to DAT
email: pet@munagin.ee.mu.oz.au, pet@mundil.cs.mu.oz.au, SonnenSystem
--
Second Hand vinyl for sale: Depeche Mode, Indie, Severed Heads,
Beloved, New Order, Pet Shop Boys, Stone Roses, Inspiral Carpets,
Cabaret Voltaire. Excell. Cond. Also X1 as NEW $88US, $110AUS.
Newsgroups: alt.rave
From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (6 pack and a shotgun)
Subject: Re: Most Commercial Rave.n
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 18:50:37 GMT

Somewhere in Cyberspace, xjam@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU said about 'Most
Commercial Rave.n': 
|Hey dude, I know you can't stand the Poor Boy guys, but I'm still trying to
|figure out where they even mentioned "rave" in the flyer. Or are even the
|trappings of raves only for RealRavers (tm)?
|
|Just wondering?

Is this directed to me?  I'll take it even if it isn't.....

Poor Boy Productions basically started the rave scene in
Denver/Boulder...At one time, they were the only people putting on
raves with any dedication whatsoever to the scene and community and
the music....Some people, though, will take issue and say they're
moneygrubbers....Pete Ashdown, who's on the net of course, doesn't
seem to particularly care for them...

At any rate, now we have about 10 promoters or so here, and Poor Boy
has since gone on to become really popular among both the "hardcore"
folks (if you want to label it this particular) and also the passing-glance
people who read about raves in the local media or here about it on the
radio or something...

So, anyway, Poor Boy brings together the rave community and people
with only half-an-interest in raves, some of whom probly couldn't tell
you what techno music is...

Poor Boy still puts on "real" raves, though they are increasingly
commercially-oriented.... 

At any rate, the flyer didn't mention the word, but in local media (it
was advertised all over the place on a alternative radio station) it
was touted as a rave, and most people I know would associate the words
"Poor Boy" with "rave", self included of course....

|--
|xjam@cork.Berkeley.EDU  	Fiiiive Thousand Boomin Watts...... -The JBeez
|
|They can't come on and play me in prime time, 	    | Free Millipede coin op
|Cause I know the time, cause I'm gettin' mine.	    | and House music at my
|I get on the mix late in the night... -Public Enemy | place! Drop by sometime.

--

    ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu	        FutureCulture:  In/f0rmation
    ahawks@mindvox.phantom.com		future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu

Newsgroups: alt.rave
From: hmo@wam.umd.edu (Hipno House)
Subject: Re: Rave or Techno?
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 21:11:05 GMT

In article <C0nMAz.72p@news.cso.uiuc.edu> dmd39855@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Daniel DuBois) writes:
>I just want to say that I'm here for the music, techno music, I dont go
>to rave parties for some ethereal, love one-another, get high on
>Ecstacy, rub my crystals, worship my pyramids, live transiently in a
>commnual-like 'experience.'  I just like to dance.  I don't care if
>it's not pouplar, I wont stop liking it if it becomes too popular.
>
>I like Sesame's Treat, I like Apotheosis, I like Dominator, I like
>Destoryer, I like Mother Fu*ker Man, I like Na Na, I like Ping Pong,
>I like Pullover, I like Speed Racer.  I dont care if these are
>considered old, or crappy, or commercial, or sellout, or nauseating
>by some guy in the Uk, or some chick in the US.
>
>
>Ok?
>
>-Dan

My feelings exactly!  I go to raves because they play the latest techno
tunes, nonstop.  I dance and enjoy the music.  I could care less about
acid, X, laughing gas, whatever, it's your perogative.  However, it's 
that shit that is ruining the reputation of raves.  What we need are 
clean drug-free raves.  If you can't dance without drugs, then that means
you can't hang with the music.  You should learn to enjoy it without any
additional help.  It's for your own good.  If you want to rave forever,
then decrease the drugs, the sooner the better.


Now, the reason for my post is because of these so-called "crossover",
"commercialized" groups that most of you do not like.  For example,
Smart E's, 2 Unlimited, and whoever else.  Yeah, they're popular and
overplayed, but this is how people hear techno and begin to enjoy it.
I mean people start listening to these bands and begin exploring the 
world of techno.  Plus, you have to admit that these groups aren't that 
bad.  They do have some good jams on their records (Especially, Smart-E's).

Well, that's it.  This is all my opinion of course, and if you do not 
agree, that's why you didn't write it.

Rave, rave, a little longer.

 


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     Haluk                            "Better mixes than Betty Crocker"  
 hmo@wam.umd.edu                           --CLUB 95 on WPGC 95.5--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: ccjy@bristol.ac.uk (APATHY=)
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Subject: Re: Breakbeat and 'hardcore' ruminations
Date: 8 Jan 93 09:14:15 GMT
Organization: University of Bristol, England

In article <1993Jan7.181525.1478@athena.mit.edu> nivekogr@athena.mit.edu (Christopher M Teixeira) writes:
>In article <93007.095636RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET> Robert Haskins <RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET> writes:
>>Chris Teixeira:  Please define "ultra-chipmunk."  Thanks muchly.
>>
>
>    "Chipmunk Techno" was a phrase coined by Pete Ashdown sometime last
>year to describe tracks that utilized speeded-up vocal samples, thus causing
>the vocals to sound chipmunk-like of the Alvin and Dale variety (take a
>spoken album that's supposed to be played at 33 and play at 45, instant
>chipmunks).  I stuck on the "ultra" to refer to vocal samples that
>sound like they have been speeded up from 33 to 78 where the phrases are
>almost unrecognizable.  I think what the DJ was doing was speeding up a 
>fast 'chipmunk' track at 33 to 45, creating a pre-pubescent chipmunk
>"oh yeah" sample in a lot of tracks.  Make any sense?
>
> I forgot to mention that the people 'dancing' to this stuff were not
>really attempting to follow the music AT ALL -- more of a free-form
>move as quickly as you can epileptic fit.  If the DJ had a sense of humour
>he would have played Moby's Thousand...
>
>-Chris Teixeira



Talking of spedding old records up to 45.
SPeeding even...oooooooh yes please.

Take the old house record 'S-express' by s-express on a vinyl album playing at
33 1/3 rpm and whack it on up to 45 rpm.

I have often thought about resampling this and building a techno track around
it.  I dunno though...try it and let me know what you think.

My friends

U4ia......watchj out U96...here i come
From: xjam@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU (The Crossjammer)
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Subject: Re: Rave or Techno?
Followup-To: alt.rave
Date: 11 Jan 93 14:42:19
Organization: University of California, Berserkeley
Distribution: world
	<1993Jan11.130518.1300@gssec.bt.co.uk>
	<1isrgiINNs85@lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cork.cs.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: phuag@csv.warwick.ac.uk's message of 11 Jan 1993 22:14:42 -0000

>>>>> Regarding Re: Rave or Techno?; phuag@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr C J Tilbury) adds:
  phaug> Followup-To: alt.rave

  phaug> Unfortunate perhaps, that it was "that shit" that created the original rave
  phaug> subculture back in the UK, in 1988/89. Because, without "that shit" its 
  phaug> quite possible that you wouldn't be going to raves, because they wouldn't of
  phaug> happened. You've either never heard of Acid House music, or are so completely
  phaug> clueless as to realise that the acid in it is LSD, and it was acid house 
  phaug> that really started the raves going over here in the UK. The most ironic part
  phaug> of it is that acid house music was an American creation. 

But the "acid" in American acid house wasn't about drugs. It was a
dj/producer term referring to swiping and reworking someone else's beat or
stripping a track to it's bare essentials. I'm thinking back to the old
Chicago Trax dayz. I never saw the drug connotation until Psychick TV
jumped on the bandwagon. So Acid House can probably be thought of as a
British invention, but the acid house style is indeed American.





--
xjam@cork.Berkeley.EDU  	Fiiiive Thousand Boomin Watts...... -The JBeez

They can't come on and play me in prime time, 	    | Free Millipede coin op
Cause I know the time, cause I'm gettin' mine.	    | and House music at my
I get on the mix late in the night... -Public Enemy | place! Drop by sometime.

Newsgroups: alt.rave
From: alaakso@lk-hp-7.hut.fi (Antti Laakso)
Subject: Re: SHIT WORTH HAVING
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 01:28:46 GMT


>In article <96.1191.uupcb@satalink.com> jakub.ludwinski@satalink.com (Jakub Ludwinski) writes:
>>For Prodigy FAns in the US:
>
>If anyone can tell me where I can find the UK Everybody In The Place single, or
>at least what's on it so I know whether or not I should keep looking for it, 
>please let me know.


It's worth looking for, I think. As good as Charly (Or even better).
It includes 	
		1. Everybody In the Place (Fairground edit)
		2. G-Force
		3. Crazy Man
		4. Rip Up the Sound System
		5. Everybody In the Place (Fairground remix)

None of these are on Experience album.
I bought it from Dusseldorf Germany last spring and it is an international
release (XL Recordings, int 825.932), so it should be available somewhere.

BTW Does anyone know about Prodigy dates in Europe?

	Antti
From: jakub.ludwinski@satalink.com (Jakub Ludwinski)
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Subject: RE: AMIGA TECHNO
Date: 8 Jan 93 11:13:00 GMT
Reply-To: jakub.ludwinski@satalink.com (Jakub Ludwinski)
Organization: Datamax/Satalink Connection * Ivyland, PA (215) 443-9434

-> In article <25.1191.uupcb@satalink.com> jakub.ludwinski@satalink.com
-> (Jakub Lud >Anyone has a AMIGA? I have about 30 techno mods [modules]
-> and a TON of >demos all incorporating psychodelic [sp] graphics and
-> awesome grooves. >Recently I got a demo which won $2500 prize that is
-> THE BEST TECHNO song >with really fuckin great visual effect. This
-> shit could be shown on TV >and no one would EVER guess it was done on
-> a $500 computer and played >from a 880k. This looks like it is from a
-> CD ROM! spectacular! it is >really hard to describe. But if have an
-> AMIGA and wanna see it lemme >know [I'll give you my BBS number so u
-> can dl it] since I got mail >access here ONLY.
-> >
-> >JAKE MON
-> >
->
-> Safe!!!  At last, someone who has heard about the Amiga music scene.
-> There is some real talent out there on the amiga MOD front.
-> ANd you can produce some real good kickin tunes with the Amiga too.
-> I have a question though regarding this.
-> I worte a tune on the amiga called 'mod.Suburbass commando'
-> A nice 142 bpm techno dance track, but how the hell would i go about
-> getting this onto vinyl or cd???
-> I have no money to press it myself and no idea on who to contact.
-> ANyone got any ideas????
->
-> My friends
->
-> U4ia of Megawatts......The AMiga .MOD writer.
->
-> p.s.  Jake i sure would like to see that demo and hear those mod's
-> you have    but i have no bbs modem facilty.  Can you name a few???

I run a BBS in Philly, PA [US], I used to be affilited with SILENTS, the
NUMBER one demo group in the amiga scene...I got almost every single
demo that came out for the amiga since 87...plus i am makinga
techno/rave conference on my BBS with mods....Ok I dont know about
pressing the music into a record but I do know few DJs who have AMIGAS
with them every time they play a gig, they use it a sampler...with 200mb
HD you can sample ALOT with it!

The demo that won $2500 is made by SPACEBALLS, IT IS AWESOME!!! I also
got few others like: HYPNOTIC HAMMER [200k exe file], Seseme's Treet
MEGA MIX [done by some UK guys], BASS SUBLIMINAL Techno demo, Bass Mega
Demo II, Wildfire MEga Demo, Bass Of Drifters No tech Demo, Techno
Conspiracy by Majic 12, MANIAC RAVES I [2 disks], MANIAC RAVES II [4
disks]...there is alot more cant think of them now...but i got most of
the music ripped anyway...so I can play it from my amiga without the
need of rebooting...

Maybe we can trade it by mail if you like...
From: greg.ipp@rose.com (greg ipp)
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Subject: Re: AMIGA TECHNO
Date: 10 Jan 93 18:43:21 GMT
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 01-10-93 13:39
Quoted From: tfinn@crash.cts.com (Aaron Grier)
> 
> Pas-16 doesn't have four independent channels... only two. I've got
> both a PC and and amiga.. had a PAS-16 on the PC for a while too. The
> Amiga sounded cleaner, hands down. Plus the software for
> creating/playing MODs is much better on the Amiga. Sure you can do it
> on the IBM, but it really pales in comparison.
> 

Lets not argue this point.  I don't want to perpetuate any Amiga vs 
IBM hate.

> As for the demos, sure the new PCs can do 16.7million colors and even
> cheap SVGA can do like 640x480x256, but where are the demos that
> support this? The max I've seen a demo at is the 640x480x16 vga mode
> with just credits rollin' by. Nothing spectacular has happened yet.
> Until something like Odyssey can be made on the PC, I'll take the
> amiga for demos.
> 
> Also $200 gets you all your fun... you have to admit it costs more for
> the PC to become "demo ready"
> 

I can upload my MODs to your board, but the demos are really huge.  If 
you're interested, I can get you a number from where you can download 
them at 14.4 (I'll create a password for you on my account).  Most 
of the IBM demos are done by 'software' groups (TRSI/THG/FLT, etc.).

> >> If you really think PC is better let me see one demo on the PC that is
> >> ever CLOSE to what was done on the amiga in 1987 [btw we had WINDOWS GUI
> >> since 1986 while you were still playing with DOS]....
> >>          
> >
> >Windows has been around since 1986 (someone correct me if I'm wrong 
> >here -- but I had version 2 in 1989 or 88)... just not very nice, 
> >thats all.
> 
> I have a copy of Windows 1.0... it sucks. Windows sucks. OS/2, maybe..
> anyway.. this is wholly off subject..
> 
> ISN'T IT NICE THAT WE CAN ALL RAVE TOGETHER ANYWAY?
> 

Very ... lets kill this thread now so we can get back to our peace 
love and happiness. :)

> agrier@gompers.gompers.edu (real internet addy)
> tfinn@crash.cts.com (UUCP address)
>

rev@cibbs.uucp / greg.ipp@rose.com
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From: arf@otter.hpl.hp.com (Andrew Farmer)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 23:20:05 GMT
Subject: Re: USA is *way* behind Europe (Was: YO HO!)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: alt.rave


In alt.rave, tsines@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (enhanced invisible life [Todd Sines]) writes:

> no shit! america is the big rip off of everything... jeezuz.
> i just marvel at how much we take from others without due respect. shit.
> maybe i'll go move to england or something. bleech

	Rave msuic is yours pal. We stole it from you, now we're
 selling it back to you and you didn't even know it was in your back yard
 five years ago....

	arf, engerland
Newsgroups: alt.rave