From: eddie@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Edward M. Averett)
Subject: Re: Empathic question
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 12:12:57 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.231506.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>If two people--probably lovers--were to develop a loose, informal empathic
>link (assuming this is possible), and then get into a serious arguement, would
>one of the two--the more trained one--be able to attack the other psychically,
>unaware of it, and cause serious, if temporary, damage?
>
>Let's say this happens, and the injured party raises a complaint. The attacker
>then tries to withdraw--would it be possible for the attack to continue because
>of unconscious resentment or whatever, even though this person has some
>practice in conscious control of the mind (I guess it would not be enough to
>overcome the anger in this instance)?
>
Meaning no disrepect to present company, in the circles (squares, pentagrams)
in which I generally travel, this is frequently referred to as "adolescent
witch syndrome", substitute your favorite synonyms, please.

1) People's feelings can always be hurt, if willed is it magical? (don't 
answer that, we just spent several threads examining it)

2) If two people are lovers, I would *hope* that they both had a "loose, 
informal empathic link".  I would hope that with friends, family. ......
If I was in this position, and couldn't read someone empathically, then I 
would assume that one or more of us was limited in more than "average" ways. 

3) Untrained empaths can do very little except in company which is equally 
clueless.  Trained empaths can't do Anything against someone who is equally 
trained.  Learning about *SHIELDS* ought to be one of the damn first things
that anyone fooling with -- magick, empathy, PSI, neurotic and/or psychotic 
individuals, television sets, or large animals -- ought to learn.  It takes
about 10 minutes to do adequately and an hour to a week for even the most dense
student to learn quite well.  

4) In 90%+ of all the situations I have run into where a similar situation 
has been described, it has involved people who are immature emotionally in 
some respect (at least one participant, usually the complainer).  This 
individual is generally at least neurotic, has generally been in some kind
of therapy for something else (not 90%, but large), is overly sensitive to 
their environment, knows little in general about anything magical (the point
of this newsgroup, so one assumes they know *something*), is generally at 
that point or sometime soon after upset with the party they are complaining
about. Denial is frequently involved, particularly of the above points, even
when such points are documented well in that specific case.  It appears to 
be a common and easy way to assert feelings about someone's behavior or 
attitudes on a level that they cannot defend themselves in any normal fashion.
The mere accusation of "empathic attack" is as much as an emotional attack
as I have normally encountered, and is nearly impossible for the accused to
address adequately.  It's a witch hunt, an ad hominem attack, a low-down and
petty and neurotic (at least) way to confront one's own problems and one's 
own problems with a particular relationship. 

5)  No, you almost certainly CAN'T do any of this and be unaware, even if 
you allow the whole 1st paragraph and a half, (which I don't). You certainly 
can't be unaware of it after being informed of it, and if you think you've
stopped, you have.  This in no way affects normal feelings of anger, resentment
, denial, or other other emotional states on either party.  But it doesn't 
have anything to do with magick either.  

6)  I see this question come up time and time again, especially with the under
23 crowd, especially with people who have been in therapy, and a clear majority
being female (ethnic and cultural backgrounds have not been adequately scanned
for, sorry, I try NOT to associate with these kinds of people once I identify
them).  I'd recommend that the complainer go talk to their therapist, or get
one, leave the accused alone, that the accused drop any relationship with 
this individual personally but NOT to drop out of organizations, other 
friendships, etc because of this.  That action only tends to empower the 
accusing individual.  Be yourself, maintain your identity, activate your 
own shields.  Attempting to cure or defend yourself against a person like 
this can be dangerous, thought I give litte and/or no credit to any dangerous
capabilities expressed as above. 

7)  This is a favorite topic of flamers.  "How dare you be insensitive!", lots
of expressions of outrage, or the time "I was attacked by a psychic vampire", 
etc.  Bullshit.  Adequate defenses exist, and the accusation is as bad as the
attack the accuser is claiming, in normal emotional circles, never mind magick.


				-eddie@hermes.oit.unc.edu