HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: itlm013@fella.ucdavis.edu (Captain Caveman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: The Braves list was easy, on to a real challenge!
Date: 5 Nov 92 22:27:31 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis

In article <1992Nov3.003629.20073@leland.Stanford.EDU> paladin@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jason Gische) writes:
>Okay, the net seems to have hashed out the Braves protectd list, with
>only a few disgreements as to the last 2 players.  That was cake.
>
>Going to the other end of the spectrum, who are the Mets going to protect?
>Every time I try to make the list I get frustrsted and think about the 
>Braves list again.  It's much more satisfying deciding between two good
>players than two lousy players.
>
>Must protect:
>	Gooden.  He may never be a great pitcher again, but he'll be solid
>		as he recovers from his surgery and the Mets will lose
>		more fans than they could possibly imagine if they let him
>		go.  Some of us still seethe when thinking about the loss of
>		Tom Seaver.

Why bother?  He's a slightly above average pitcher (well, he's better than
Morris, who I consider ever-so-slightly better than average) in decline,
whose going to cost $5+ million/year.  Do you really think that an expansin
club is going to draft that?  Personally, I keep him off the list.  It
lowers payroll, and opens up a spot for a young guy to show his stuff.

A team gets better by replacing aging vets with fresh young talent. Why
keep Gooden simply becuase he used to be good?

>	Howard Johnson.  One bad year was a fluke.  Too much power to let go.

And relatively cheap at $3 million.  Cheap, that is, *if* he returns to
power-hitting form.

>	Bonilla.  Turned out to have a decent year.  A dangerous hitter.

Yes, but once again he got $6.1 million this year, and will get a lot of
money this year.  Colorado definitely won't want him, and I doubt that
Florida would take him.  Don't the Mets have any good talent in the minrs
that they want to protect?

>	Ryan Thompson, Jeff Kent.  Justify Cone trade.

Why bother?  Cone was a free agent and was most likely gone anyway, wasn't
he?  Definitely protect Kent, but let Thompson get drafted.  No point in
keeping him just to justify a trade.

>Gooden, Saberhagen, SFernandez, HoJo, Bonilla, TFernandez,
>Thompson, Kent, Hundley, Burnitz, Schourek, Young, and three others.
>
>Please help.

I think you can trim Gooden, Bonilla, and Thompsn and include mre minor-
league talent (if there is any).

Dennis Cleary
dfcleary@ucdavis.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: nissim@mary.fordham.edu (Leonard J. Nissim)
Subject: Re: Unofficial Protected Lists from San Jose Mercury
Organization: Fordham University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 19:24:00 GMT
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Distribution: usa
X-Posted-From: mary.fordham.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Nov12.184424.4849@odin.corp.sgi.com>, 
rickc@wrigley.corp.sgi.com (Richard Casares) writes...
>Boy, that list of portected palyers was a little surprising for
>some teams.
> 
>I gues I'd rather see the list of unprotected players and figure
>out for myself whether they're unprotected by virtue of free agent
>status, big contract, or mediocrity.

All three types exist; as soon as I read your sentence, these 3 popped 
into my mind:
Free agent status--David Cone, P
Big contract--Eddie Murray (2nd half of 2-yr., $7.5 million), 1B
Mediocrity--Dave Hansen, 3B
(The Dodgers have many of type 3 :-( :-( )
>-- 
>+===================================================================+
>| Rick Casares			            Silicon Graphics        |	
>| cubfan@wrigley.corp.sgi.com		    2011 N. Shoreline Blvd  |
>| "Just wait till next year."               Mountain View, CA 94039 |
>+===================================================================+

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leonard Nissim, notorious Dodger fanatic     (nissim@mary.fordham.edu)  
Disclaimer:  "I speak only for myself."   
World Championships:  Brooklyn-----1955   
                      Los Angeles--1959  1963  1965  1981  1988
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (All this)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: "Athletic" vs. "Intelligent"
Date: 10 Nov 92 01:28:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: midway.1992Nov10.012855.19772
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Nov9.222224.2607@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>Is the difference between Cal Ripken's and Tony Fernandez' styles of defense 
>readily apparent in statistics?  Ripken can more easily afford to lose a step
>than Fernandez because he plays a less athletic, more intelligent game.

Wow.  I'd deconstruct this, but we don't want to start another flamewar
over racial stereotypes...
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
also at quibeaux@uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Organization: University of Central Florida--Computer Services
Date: Thursday, 5 Nov 1992 21:34:21 EST
From: Bill Laird <COP80196@UCF1VM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Florida awaits the Giants!
 <18767@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> <73978@apple.Apple.COM>

Certainly, money isn't the only issue in the Giants move to Florida. But
baseball is a business, and like any other business is driven by money,
and more specifically profit. Do you think Lurie is going to stand and
take a $15 million hit? I don't think so. Certainly, other owners must
be sympathetic to this situation, and their vote should reflect so.

Tampa has a lot to offer to the Giants. Baseball is very big down here,
even college and high school baseball have a loyal following. That is another
point to consider. Cental Florida is ready to support a major league team.
Given the Giants poor attendence over the past several years, one has to
wonder even if the Giants stay in SF, how long is it going to last?

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: west@esd.dl.nec.com (Mike West)
Subject: Re: texas rangers
Organization: NEC America, Engineering & Support
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:58:57 GMT

From article <1992Nov7.185924.13523@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, by Shawn.T.Burgess@dartmouth.edu (Shawn T. Burgess):
> 
> has anybody heard anything about possible trades/free-agent signings. 
> i think they definitely need help with their starting rotation.  greg
> maddux perhaps?  any comments?

Appearantly the team is simply focusing in on the expansion draft.
There have been no official statements of interest in anyone, nor
have there been any offers whatsoever (including toward Jose Guzman).
I do not expect them to do much shopping for free agents until after
the draft.  Of course since no one else will be either, this should
hurt them any.  Also, they are spending most of their energy toward
the assembly their coaching staff, so do expect any trades either.
This could hurt them since they are probably going to lose three
players, and they could try to convert some of them into a needed
player.

They have publicly stated, however, that their primary areas of need
are:  relief pitching, shortstop, centerfield.  If they do not
resign Guzman (which is looking more and more likely :-( ), then
they can add starting pitching to the list.  It looks like they
are going to make the same mistake as before and count on their
unproven rookies to come through and hope Nolan makes it the
entire season.

> ***shawn.burgess@dartmouth.edu***
> Texas Rangers in 93!
> (or 94 or 95 or 96, etc.)

I don't have high hopes for this team at all.  They have a big enough
pool of talent from which to assemble a contender, but part of that
assembly requires trading and I don't know if the Ranger management
has figured that out yet.  (Remember these are the same people who
firmly believed that they were going to contend in '92 despite a
dirth of defence and relief pitching.)

Mike West
west@esd.dl.nec.com
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Wednesday, 11 Nov 1992 21:56:52 EST
From: Ryan R Robbins <IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Tampa ball team - what might happen

Sorry, but I don't care how many teams each league has, there
should be no more chances for teams to make the playoffs. The
playoffs are supposed to mean something. If your team can't
win its division in 162 games, then you don't deserve the
chance to go the World Series.

+===============================================================+
||   RYAN ROBBINS                    INTERNET:                 ||
||   UNIVERSITY OF MAINE             IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU   ||
+===============================================================+
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker)
Subject: Re: Mathematics of Baseball - Course
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 16:54:27 GMT

In article <!_-qzaf@lynx.unm.edu> kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt "Some Guy" Bose) writes:
>In article <1992Nov6.172205.9435@wuecl.wustl.edu> mccarthy@wucs1.wustl.edu (John McCarthy) writes:
>>
>>I am thinking of teaching a course in the math dept. on the
>>mathematics of baseball. It would cover two areas
>>i) The mathematical physics behind the game - how far
>>a ball should go, how it is affected by temperature, etc.
>>
>>ii) Sabermetrics - how remarkable was Joe DiMaggio's streak,
>>what is a good measure of run production, etc.
>>
>>When it comes to sabermetrics, there are obviously huge
>>quantities of data available, as people quote results
>>of statistical analysis. Is it available in on-line form?
>>(I don't want to type in Elias' numbers for the last ten years).
>>If so, are there any software packages freely available
>>(or available free) for handling it?
>>
>First, on the subject of the hard math behind the game itself, your local 
>physics department is a good place to start.  (One physics prof I had took great
>delight in giving us all baseball-related problems to solve.)  The Adair
>book is good as it goes, and Adair himself might be interested in hearing
>from you.  There is also a book (called Newton at the Bat, I believe) that 
>takes a look at physics problems in many sports...but since it's been more than
>several years since I've read it, it's entirely possible that you might not
>find it helpful, or possibly a little below university level.  

Another good book on that line is titled "Keep Your Eye On The Ball:
The Science and Folklore of Baseball", by Robert G. Watts and A. Terry
Bahill, published by W.H. Freeman (New York), 1990. It is
mathematically rigorous, and provides equations for such things as the
drag and lift forces on rotating baseballs. If I remember correctly,
Watts is a professor of either physics or engineering at Tulane. 

I used it a while back to write a program which allowed you to vary
the speed of the ball off the bat, rotation rate off the bat, angle
off the bat, temperature, humidity, and pressure of the air, to see
how far a ball will go at Denver, say, vs. Atlanta or New York. And to
see how the results differed for a softball. It's good.

Clay D.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: nissim@mary.fordham.edu (Leonard J. Nissim)
Subject: Re: Greatest moments in baseball history
Organization: Fordham University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 13:53:00 GMT
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Distribution: na
X-Posted-From: mary.fordham.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Nov8.174245.28862@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>, 
doli@troi.cc.rochester.edu (David Oliver) writes...
> 
>April 15, 1947 - Jackie Robinson starts at first base for the Brooklyn
>Dodgers.  He is the first black man to appear in a major league baseball
>game since 1884.
Yes.  Most important moment for its effects outside of baseball.  But make
that "openly acknowledged black man"; some had played by passing as white or 
Latino.  

> 
>Oct 8, 1956 - Don Larsen pitches a perfect game in the fifth game of the WS
>against the Brooklyn Dodgers.  The only perfect game in WS history.
Agrhh!! Very painful to remember (for Dodger fans). 

> 
>Oct 13, 1960 - Bill Mazeroski hits a homerun in the bootom of the ninth to
>give the Pirates the win in the seventh game and in the WS.  The only time
>a series has ended on a homerun (?).  The Pirates were outscored in the series
>55-25!
^^^^^^^ This should be 55-27.
> 
>July 17, 1941 - Joe DiMaggio goes 0-3 against the Cleveland Indians, 
>ending his hitting streak at 56 games.  This record although probably not
>unbreakable, is one of the holiest in all of baseball, due in part to the
>man and to the time it was broken, the summer before WWII.
> 
>This list is FAR from comprehensive and certainly could be revised (I'm
>coming up with these off the top of my head, kinda :-)  Anyway what does 
>anybody else want to add.  By the way here are two personal favorites
> 
>1987, 1991 Twins are World Champs!!!!
> 
>-David Oliver (doli@troi.cc.rochester.edu)

Thank you for leaving out how the 1951 NL pennant was won.  

How about Kirk Gibson's HR with two out and a 3-2 count in the bottom of the 
9th of game 1 of the 1988 World Series?  

Or September 9, 1965--Sandy Koufax pitches his fourth no-hitter in four years,
this one a perfect game in which a majority (14 of 27) of the batters strike 
out.  
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leonard Nissim, notorious Dodger fanatic     (nissim@mary.fordham.edu)  
Disclaimer:  "I speak only for myself."   
World Championships:  Brooklyn-----1955   
                      Los Angeles--1959  1963  1965  1981  1988
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: Mattingly, what a fine fielder (was: Hardly not etc.)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 21:54:04 GMT

In <1992Nov7.204530.26889@news2.cis.umn.edu> thornley@micro.cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley) SHOULD have written:

Cut to October 1994.....

(AP) The Atlanta Braves protested the decision of Commissioner Roger
Maynard, who has ruled that the Montreal Expos will represent the National
League in the 1993 World Series, despite the Braves' outscoring the Expos
58-4 while losing four in the seven game series.  

"Wins have value," the commissioner was reported to say, "and they are
the be-all end-all method of telling you who is the 'best'.  Now, runs 
scored are clearly an important statistic, but if a team can't score the
runs when they need them then they are chokes - and we aren't about to
anoint chokes with the label 'best' are we?"

Hey, I'll take the job!  At least long enough to get Pete back in...

rm

-- 
roger maynard
maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Mike Zimmerman
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:42:18 GMT

In article <of0pzCa00Vpc0Ds2YG@andrew.cmu.edu> Amit Likhyani <al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>I don't understand how they protected Shouse and Zimmerman ahead of Paul
>Wagner.   I think the Pirate plucked will be Wagner or Slaught or Smith
>in that order of probability.   Wagner may actually be a pretty high
>pick.

Wagner was on the protected list as published by the Trib.

>sign Drabek.  They are probably hoping they lose Jackson or Smith.  I
>don't mind losing Jackson(he is a free agent after this year, not that
>signing him would be a problem), but a healthy Smith is well worth the
>$3 million a year.  You don't have to worry about him losing arm
>strength and his fastball losing gas.   He is a sinkerball pitcher.  I
>think he can be effective for the next 2 years.  Unless they just don't
>think his shoulder will hold up.

The same day this list appeared in the paper, there was also a note that
Zane Smith had undergone arthroscopic surgery on his shoulder.  The Pirates
may be thinking they can sneak Smith through without protecting him, given
that he's a high-priced veteran coming off surgery who didn't pitch much
the second half of the season.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: rja@mahogany126.cray.com (Russ Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Dave Flemming ROY (Re: Pat Listach wins A.L. rookie of the year award)
Keywords: ROY, Listach, Brewers, rookie, shortstop
Date: 11 Nov 92 16:58:40 GMT
Organization: The 1991 World Champion Minnesota Twins!
Originator: rja@mahogany126


In article <3nh11vk@rpi.edu>, sullis@vccnorthb.its.rpi.edu (Sean C. Sullivan) writes:
> 
> Pat Listach (SS, Milwaukee Brewers) won the American League
> Rookie of the Year award.
> 
> Kenny Lofton (OF, Cleveland Indians) was second in the voting.

I think that Dave Flemming was the most deserving.  Anyone that can
win 17 games for the Mariners deserves some kind of award.

-- 
Russ Anderson    |  Disclaimer: Any statements are my own and do not reflect
------------------              upon my employer or anyone else.  (c) 1992
EX-Twins' Jack Morris, 10 innings pitched, 0 runs (World Series MVP!)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jjungbau@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (Jim Jungbauer)
Subject: Re: Greatest Moments in Baseball History
Originator: jjungbau@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu
Organization: Washington State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 08:22:40 GMT

How about the night we had two no-hitters thrown, both games
being televised by ESPN?  I think it was Dave Stewart who
threw the first one in Toronto, and Fernando Valenzuela who
threw the second one in LA against the Cardinals (correct me
if I'm wrong here). 

Jim
Go Cougars, Vikings, Northstars!
From: RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: 5 truly unbreakable records.
Date: 8 Nov 92 17:47:03 GMT
 <1992Nov6.060801.15252@muddcs.claremont.edu>
 <1992Nov6.162403.12458@informix.com> <1992Nov7.183708.9963@athena.mit.edu>

"aren't records supposed to have minimums associated with them?
 blah blah blah, blah blah..."

                                   -some charles guy.

first, charles, you cannot possibly deny (and stand a chance of being
correct) that the highest lifetime batting average is 1.000.

second, sure, these have a minimum, too.  one at bat.  or one third of
an inning pitched.  (except for "coolest", which balb wins hands down
even with no such minimum).

third, charles, would it have helped if i had included a few of those
inane "smiley" things?


bob vesterman.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: arrow@netcom.com (Les Arrow)
Subject: Re: DH: PRO or CON
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 03:28:29 GMT

In article <3480025@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> guy@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Guy Sitler) writes:
>
>	I would like to hear some PROS and CONS of the American League
>DH rule.  Support your view with facts and statistics.  Also state your
>sources.

I like it. 100% of the people sitting in this chair like it. My source is
me.

I also like the fact that there's no DH in the National League. Each league
has its own strategies, which make it unique and exciting. To be honest,
though, I wouldn't be phazed one bit if they went all DH or no DH. I
watch both  National League and American League Games.

--Les
From: luigi@sgi.com (Randy Palermo)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Tampa Bay Contract Re: Giants Will Stay!!!
Date: 13 Nov 92 17:28:25 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA

In article <BxKq2B.Dpz@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> dmeister@mansci1.UWaterloo.ca (Darren Meister) writes:
>In article <TOM.92Nov11112158@amber.ssd.csd.harris.com> tom@ssd.csd.harris.com (Tom Horsley) writes:
>>Yep. The Giants will stay in SF alright, but now the real fun begins.
>>
>>Since the Tampa group does, in fact, have a signed contract in their
>>hands, lawsuits will definitely be filed.
>
>This is not a flame but Tampa signed the contract and knew that it had
>to be ratified by the owners in accordance with the guidelines. I have
>a feeling that I'm wrong but shouldn't this rule out a law suit.
>-- 
>Darren Meister                                    dmeister@mansci1.waterloo.edu

Not only did they know that they would need the ratification of the 
owners but they also signed an agreement that they would not sue if
the owners voted against the move. Now they are claiming that Major
League Baseball conspired to keep them from buying the team so that
should void the agreement. They filed a $3.5 billion lawsuit yes-
terday. I feel bad for the good folks of Tampa/St. Pete but when you
are trying to take away another communities team you have to know,
going in, that they are going to fight to keep it. The precedent of
keeping teams from moving has been set time and time again by MLB.
It sould come as no surprise that they upheld it again.

luigi

--
Randy Palermo   luigi@csd.sgi.com    Fax: (415)961-6502
Silicon Graphics Computer Systems, 2011 N. Shoreline Blvd Mt. View, CA 94039
"Play an accordion, go to jail. That's the LAW"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cs3ea3ai@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Edberg '92)
Subject: Re: The New Yuck Mets:A Look Ahead
Summary: Tony Fernandez
Organization: Department of Computer Science, McMaster University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 01:28:11 GMT

>Finally a stable shortstop who can hit, has a great glove, and is a proven veteran....

Nothing against Tony Fernandez, but there are some points you should know
about Pandorra's box.

i)  He is stable, at the plate, that's for sure.  His last three years in the
    majors, he's hit .276, .272, and .275.

ii)  While in Toronto, his defence was spectacular, earning him high accolades,
     unfortunately he had some trouble adjusting to grass in San Diego in 1991,
     but committed only 11 errors last year.  His range rating (which I don't
     pay much attention to) was the worst in the NL last year.  But I agree
     with you that his defence is still one of his strong points.

iii) Ah, yes, the proven veteran part.  Being from Toronto, I watched Tony for
     eight years, and on the field, he was stalwart.  Unfortunately, off the 
     field, he was a lot like George Bell, and this was one of the main reasons
     he was traded.  His attitude sucks.  I figured what New York needs right
     now was some team players.  But then again, they need some talent.

	Just a few thoughts...


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tom@ssd.csd.harris.com (Tom Horsley)
Subject: Re: Giants Will Stay!!!
Organization: Harris Computer Systems Division
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 12:31:27 GMT
	<TOM.92Nov11112158@amber.ssd.csd.harris.com>
	<1992Nov12.152054.6748@news.stolaf.edu>

>>>>> Regarding Re: Giants Will Stay!!!; matgress@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Matthew W Gress) adds:

matgress> Anyone know if Sen. Connie Mack is related to Cornelius]
matgress> McGilicuddy (the great Phi Ath Connie Mack) or is he
matgress> just a plagerizer?

He's not a plagerizer, he's a grandson (I think it was grandson, maybe it
was nephew or something else). In fact, when he ran for the Senate, his
campaign was primarily based on the slogan which I would paraphrase as:

   Vote for me: I'm Connie Mack's grandson.

(At least that was the only substantive information I ever heard from his
campaign).
--
======================================================================
domain: tahorsley@csd.harris.com       USMail: Tom Horsley
  uucp: ...!uunet!hcx1!tahorsley               511 Kingbird Circle
                                               Delray Beach, FL  33444
+==== Censorship is the only form of Obscenity ======================+
|     (Wait, I forgot government tobacco subsidies...)               |
+====================================================================+
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball