HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kkniaz@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Krzysztof W. Kniaz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Have the american Jews done enough?
Date: 28 Sep 92 13:14:06 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


To bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman), who
keeps repeating the old line:

>It was no
>accident that the death camps were located in Poland.  The Polish
>people had, over the centuries, exhibited rabid anti-semitism, so
>the nazis knew that they would not have a problem operating death
>camps in Poland.


I dedicate the following quote from the book:

Yisrael Gutman and Shmuel Krakowski, "Unequal Victims. Poles and Jews 
During World War II" (Holocaust Library, New York, 1986). 

(The books offers a very critical view of the behavior of the majority
of Poles regarding the Jews during WWII):

p. 1 of Preface:

"Of course, one cannot charge the Poles with the responsibility for
the Holocaust and the Jewish tragedy during World War II. The Poles
did not plan, initiate, nor carry out the destruction of the Jews.
There is also no solid basis for the argument that the Germans chose
Poland, as the site for the establishment of the death camps because
the Poles were known for their anti-Semitism and therefore could be
counted on for collaboration in the process of the destruction
of the Jews. The truth is that the Nazis evidently chose areas of
Poland as the murder site because milions of Jews lived in that
country; Poland was under an absolute occupation force; and, finally,
in Poland, far from the heart of Europe, it was easier to cover up
the murder and to carry it out under conditions of secrecy."

Let the readers decide who is better-informed: the two widely
acknowledged Jewish scholars, or Mr. Kaufman.



--

Krzysztof Kniaz, University of Pennsylvania |Due to circumstances beyond
Lab for Research on the Structure of Matter |your control, you're master of 
Philadelphia, PA, 19104, USA                |your fate and captain of your soul
From: de@moscom.com (David Esan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Using vacation days for the Jewish Holidays
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:04:27 GMT
Organization: Moscom Corp., Pittsford NY

In article <9209250615.AA12551@nysernet.ORG> <Larry Israel <VSLARRY@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL>> writes:
>When I lived in the United States I used vacation days. After several years,
>my boss (non-Jewish) told me to take Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur as leave
>without charging my vacation; the rest of the hoidays still were vacation.


Early in my career I worked a lot of overtime.  It was not difficult to take
the Yimei Tov as comp time.  When the overtime ended, I took it as unpaid 
leave.  I was working as a Chazzan in the local old age home, and was 
getting paid for those days anyway.  Why use vacation when it was not needed?

Now, I still take the time as unpaid leave time.  It is true that the cash
inflow is less, but the number of vacation days remains the same.

I should note that the company pays for Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, but I
suspect that this is due to several highly placed Jewish managers that they
want to keep happy, rather than any niceness on their part.

I also manage to work Good Friday (which we have off) and take off one day
of Yom Tov.



-- 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 -->     David Esan      de@moscom.com  
 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: On Polish and Jewish nationalism
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:39:30 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.232059.9296@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de> lbs@tkm.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de writes:
>In article <1992Oct4.143412.17395@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>
>>And the debating tactic is an old one -- I used to hear it from
>>Soviets all the time when, say, the Ukraine would be mentioned.  "But
>>what about your massacre of the Red Indians?"  
>
> Think, Roger. Your argument can be reversed: whenever a Pole
>would criticize the treatment of Palestinians in Israel and 
>occupied territories, a Jew would say "but what about the Polish
>rabid anti-Semitism?"

REally?  I've never heard that one.  Did you?

Roger

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Using vacation days for the Jewish Holidays
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:06:36 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.205905.13173@midway.uchicago.edu> clmn@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <2615@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
>>In Israel, you get vacation for all the holidays.
>Yes, but, the only connection one has to the national pastime here is
>rec.sport.baseball!!!
   You should visit Kibbutz Gezer (southeast of Rehovot) next time
   in Israel. Other countries' national pastimes can be found in Bat
   Yam.
From: kolassa@bio1.bst.rochester.edu (John Kolassa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Tax support of religion in Germany; was Re: PLEASE! I need your help...
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:49:45 GMT
Reply-To: kolassa@bio1.bst.rochester.edu (John Kolassa)
Organization: University of Rochester, Rochester NY

Manfredo Tichauer (tichauer@valpso.hanse.de) writes:

"In Germany every registered member of one
    of the following religious groups has to pay taxes. These taxes are
    later distributed to the church/sinagoge to whom the member belongs.
    These religious groups made an agreement with the German government
    because  they found it was a better way to collect money from their
    members:
             Jewish  
             Evangelical: 
                         - church of Germany
                         - free churches
             Roman-Catholic"
             
Actually, I think that the trend in Germany has been in the opposite direction;
it's not that these groups approached the German government to ask for taxing
powers, but a broadening of the general tax-supported churches common to the
pre-unification German states to include all large religious bodies.  Similar
arrangements are in place in other European countries.

-- 
Thanks, John Kolassa, kolassa@bio1.bst.rochester.edu
From: ward@sun17.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Ward)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: literature like chaim potok
Date: 4 Oct 92 19:46:21 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo

In article <2643@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
>Did anyone see Hillel Halkin's review of Potok's latest book?  It was
>in the Jerusalem Report.  Not long ago.  It talked about his writing
>style.  How it was appropriate for Hemmingway.  But Jews don't talk
>that way.  Hemmingway's men of action used short sentences.  Since
>Shammai no Jew has.

Yes, but Chaim Potok is really writing about Jews for the benefit of 
non-Jews, since non-Jews will not know about Judaism, whereas Jews will,
and so he must use short sentences since that is necessary for the benefit
of the gentile reader, while Jews are perfectly capable of understanding
long sentences such as this.  :-)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lindae@netcom.com ()
Subject: When Do They Blow the Shofar?
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 17:47:42 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 



Can anyone tell me what day the shofar is blown?  Is it blown on the
evening service or the morning service?  Is there a particular time
during the service that it's supposed to be blown?

The reason I ask is... I'm taking a friend to his first Rosh
Hashana service and I wanted him to hear the shofar being blown.
Please e-mail your responses to Linda at lindae@netcom.com

Thank you
Linda
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: meaning of Yom Kippur
Date: 2 Oct 92 07:35:05
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
	<1992Oct2.123521.14326@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: soldan.aero.org
In-reply-to: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com's message of Fri, 2 Oct 1992 12:35:21 GMT

On Fri, 2 Oct 1992 12:35:21 GMT, saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) said:

> BTW, the boundary between the man-man and the man-G-d commandments is
> quite fuzzy.  For example, honoring one's parents, the fifth
> commandment (in the Ten Commandments) seems, at first glance to be a
> man-man issue.  Yet, if you notice that the others in the first 5
> commandments are man-G-d and the later 5 are purely man-man, you get
> the feeling that honoring parents was placed among the man-God ones for
> a reason.  In fact, our sages have pointed out that because parents are
> "partners in creation (of life)" honoring them is a man-G-d concern and
> the Ten are split evenly.  Similarly, it is a man-G-d Mitzvah to ask
> your fellow man for forgiveness.

Furthermore, G-d is often referred to as a "Father" or a parent in the
prayers. Thus a commandment to honor one's parents refers not only to honoring
our physical parents, but to honoring G-d also.

Daniel
--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
   "You can't be a rationalist in an irrational world. It isn't rational!"
	       Dr. Rance, in Joe Orton's "What the Butler Saw"
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:17184 soc.culture.polish:3018
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: On Polish and Jewish nationalism
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:08:20 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Organization: liver ---> spleen

In article <1992Oct5.091212.26194@walter.cray.com> aleks@cray.com
(Aleksander Mazur) writes:

Remainder of essay on Israel as an occupier

>in the history. Occupation is always occupation and it does not
>excuse anything. The same way as alcoholism does not excuse any
>wrongdoing.

To bring it a full circle, if occupation is no excuse, it isn't an
excuse for the occupier or the occupied.  It does not bode well for
even the smallest estimate of the number of Poles who helped Germans,
actively or otherwise.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: The two days of R'H and the shofar on Shabbos.
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 19:14:23 GMT

In article <91250@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>In article <1992Oct1.145653.7966@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>, jgoldber@todah (Joel Goldberg) writes:
>>   Now, what would happen in the time of the Sanhedrin was that the two
>>   days following Elul 29 would be RH. If after the fact Elul had only
>>   29 days, these two days would be Tishrei 1 and 2. If after the fact
>>   Elul had 30 days, these two days would be Elul 30 and Tishrei 1.
>>   Why does our calendar always make RH Tishrei 1 and 2?
>Think of it this way: what we "call" 1 Tishrei is "really" 30 Elul or
>1 Tishrei, depending on when the witnesses would have reported.  It's
>also possible to imagine the same system being developed for two day
>Rosh Chodesh, but then it would be a bit more complicated to identify
>1 vs 2 day.
  I'm still confused. In the time of the Sanhedrin, the day after Elul
  29 was always kept as Rosh Hashana, whether or not it turned out to
  be Elul 30 or Tishrei 1. If we are bound by minhag avoteinu, then we
  should do the same thing.
 
  If in our calendar Elul always had 29 days and we simply called
  the following day Tishrei 1, that would be ok, except that in those
  years that Elul "really" has 30 days, Tishrei would be extra long.
  This isn't the way I remember the calendar (I never seem to save them
  when they're posted) so that isn't our practice. Is it not true
  that our present Elul is 29 or 30 days according to the actual
  lunar behaviour? If so, our two days of RH are not the same two
  days of RH as the Sanhedrin instituted. This means that we aren't
  following minhag avoteinu.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: CPLS13@email.mot.com (Steven_Cohn)
Subject: Re: Cross-dressing
Organization: Motorola_CoveragePLUS
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 17:15:20 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish

In article <FAIGIN.92Oct2074011@soldan.aero.org>, faigin@aero.org (Daniel
P. Faigin) wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 2 Oct 1992 13:16:47 GMT, edelheit@smiley.mitre.org (Jeff Edelheit)
> said: 
> > The yarmulke is clearly a man's article of clothing with lace 
> > head coverings being the feminine equivalent.  
> 
> Be careful with things that are "clearly" so. We have no explicit statement of
> what is "mens" and "womens" clothing; furthermore, there are clothes that are
> clearly dual purpose (such as blue-jeans). There are certain objects, such as
> apropriately designed undergarments, that are gender-specific (men do not
> likely need brassires; women are unlikely to use jockstraps), but even items
> like skirts are not "women-only" (consider the Scottish kilt), and a blouse is
> just another name for a shirt (except the buttons are on the other side). 
> 
> It may just be that religious attire is dual purpose. I would think the intent
> of the passage would be that one should not attempt to present an image of
> being of the opposite sex; I doubt a kippah would result in my mistaking a
> woman for a man.
> 
> Daniel
> --
> [W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
> [Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
>    "You can't be a rationalist in an irrational world. It isn't rational!"
> 	       Dr. Rance, in Joe Orton's "What the Butler Saw"

I think that you too should be careful about things that are "clearly" so!

Many O would not agree with you that blue-jeans are dual purpose.  In fact
until the recent advent (last 10-15 years) of "modern-O", no O woman would
ever wear any sort of pants, because they are "men's" clothing!!!

And as for the issue of kilts, I doubt (someone correct me if I am wrong)
that any male O in Scottland would wear one, for the same reason!

Steven Cohn
Motorola CoveragePLUS Engineering
CPLS13@EMAIL.MOT.COM
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: CPLS13@email.mot.com (Steven_Cohn)
Subject: Re: Chasidic Mysteries
Organization: Motorola_CoveragePLUS
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:57:42 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish

In article <1992Sep28.193007.1356@ils.nwu.edu>, allender@ils.nwu.edu (Laura
Allender) wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know the name of the author who writes mysteries that
> take place in a Chasidic community?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Laura Allender

Kellerman (Faye I think).  Her husband is also an author, but not of jewish
stories.

Steven Cohn
Motorola CoveragePLUS Engineering
CPLS13@EMAIL.MOT.COM
From: rothberg@bimacs.BITNET (Danny Rothenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Using vacation days for the Jewish Holidays
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:12:37 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <FAIGIN.92Sep24112921@soldan.aero.org> faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin) writes:
>On Thu, 24 Sep 1992 18:10:50 GMT, jweber@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (jodi.weber) said:
>
>> How do people in the Jewish community feel about taking vacation days from
>> work (assuming you work) for the Holidays?
>
>It's one of the burdens we bear for being a minority religion. It's not only

All the more reason for coming to live in Israel where one does not
have to worry in the least about taking off days for Jewish holidays.
(Intentionally no smiley.) And it is not only Jews who have this
advantage in Israel; any recognised religion is entitled to its days
off, without them being deducted from holiday-it is just they will not
be national holidays like the Jewish ones are.  Also here is Israel
one is automatically entitled to compassionate leave of seven days if
a close (parent/spouse/sibling/child) relative dies (shiva), again
without losing days off; and also extremely good terms for either
parent to look after a sick child (up to the age of sixteen).

>the Jews that are under this burden, but the Moslems, Taoists, Hindus, and all
>other non-Christian religions.
>
>Depending on your level of observance, it may or may not be that much of a
>loss. Being Reform, I do not go to work on the day of Rosh Hashana and Yom
                                                ^^^

Only one day of Rosh HaShannah?  To my knowledge it is two days, even
here in Israel, for reasons which are different to the other Yamim
Tovim (One day in Israel, two days in the Galut).  In fact I am sure
it is two days.  I should know. I just spent them in Yeshiva where
Shacharit started at 6:30am and we did not finish Mussaf until 1:50pm
on the first day, and 1:30pm on the second (there was a half-hour
break for kiddush before the shofar was sounded)!

>Kippur; I don't take full days off for any other Jewish holidays (although I
>do try and avoid travel during Pesach). However, the company kindly gives me
>Christmas off (and sometimes the day before), so I only effectively lose one
>:-).
>
>Daniel
>--
>[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
>[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
>   "You can't be a rationalist in an irrational world. It isn't rational!"
>              Dr. Rance, in Joe Orton's "What the Butler Saw"


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Danny Rothenberg            |    ^     I forgive everybody.  Uncoditionally.
Bitnet:                     | \-/-\-/   "Repent now!
rothberg@bimacs             |  X   X     Avoid the Yom Kippur rush!"
Internet:                   | /-\-/-\      -Nero (aka Harry Blacker)
rothberg@imacs.cs.biu.ac.il |    V      Gemar VeChatimah Tovah-Shanah Tovah
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: meaning of Yom Kippur
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:00:24 GMT

In article <92275.160226BFANTLE@auvm.american.edu> <BFANTLE@auvm.american.edu> writes:
>My non-Jewish girlfriend asked me a question about Yom Kippur and being a non-k
>nowledgeableJew I was unclear how to answer.  On Yom Kippur are Jews supposed
>to ask for forgiveness?  If so;to God or the person they sinned against?  Or is
> an apologyacceptable? and once again to whom?

Barry:

Anytime during the year -- but especially if you have been busy and
not had the chance, on Rosh Hashanah you should ask forgiveness for
the sins you have committed -- sins you are aware of and those you
might not even be aware of.

For those sins committed against other people you must seek
forgiveness directly from those people.

For those sins committed against G-d, you must ask forgiveness from
G-d.  On Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur we gather together and are
aware that G-d sits in judgment of us all.

There is a very moving prayer in the musaf service of Rosh Hashanah
and Yom Kippur which begins with Unetaneh Tokef -- and contains the
thought that we all pass before G-d as sheep pass under the
shepard's staff, to be judged.  And on Rosh Hashanah the judgment is
written in G-d's books and on Yom Kippur that judgment is sealed.
But through repentence, prayer, and charitible deeds we can avert
its severity.

On Yom Kippur in particular, we "afflict our souls" - we fast, we do
not enjoy certain comforts available during the rest of the year,
and we gather for the entire day while G-d is making his judgements
to ask forgiveness.  We publicly confess all our sins on Yom Kippur.
Look at a Machzor - the High Holiday prayer book -- for the list of
sins we each confess publicly and loudly. Feel free to add to this
list  We ask G-d to write good things for us for this coming year in
his books, and at the very end of the Yom Kippur service -- the
Neilah service where the Gates are closing and G-d is about to seal
his books, we ask G-d to seal good things in his books.

Barry - you are fortunate to be at American where Rabbi Charles
Arian is Hillel Director.  Rabbi Arian is a conservative rabbi,
spent some time in and around Columbus (I had to say that), and
is a reader and contributor to this newsgroup (carian@american.edu)
He can give you a much fuller explanation than I can.

L`Shanah Tovah
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: dobo@cs.UAlberta.CA (W. Dobosiewicz)
Subject: Re: Another long article
Keywords: Poland Polish Jews Mendelsohn Bartoszewski Heller
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:34:49 GMT

mark@thor.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger) writes:

>In article <dobo.717440848@swalwell> dobo@cs.UAlberta.CA (W. Dobosiewicz) writes:
>>The case of Hlond is very illuminating: antisemitism: YES,
>>but peaceful - this was his motto.

>A point that I have been trying to make is that a widespread but
>peaceful antisemitism makes the job of violent antisemites much
>easier. 

This is very important point that should be remembered by all those who
care about racism. And I would encourage you to replace the word
"antisemit..." with "racis...", as it holds for all phobias.

>For one thing, antisemites are very unlikely to actively resist violent
>antisemitism.

>For another, antisemitic rhetoric, however peaceful, encourages the
>antisemitic impulses of its listeners. Some of these impulses may well
>be violent.


>And finally, some of us are fed up to the gills with antisemitism of
>any form. Discrimination, even if non-violent, is evil and intolerable.


>--Mark

While I fully agree with your statements, I feel that you did not
appreciate the part of my message you cite. This was not Glemp, but Hlond.
These words were pronounced in 1938. At that time, distinction between
violent antisemites and peaceful ones was not as negligeable as it is now.
Actually, at that time, few people were free from racist prejudice in one
form or another, unlike now.

W. Dobosiewicz
From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Tzom Gedalia
Date: 1 Oct 92 06:49:01 GMT
Distribution: soc.culture.jewish,world
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

In article <1992Oct1.064458.588@vms.huji.ac.il>, backon@vms.huji.ac.il writes:
> In article <ALLEN.92Sep30111137@golem.ssc.gov>, allen@golem.ssc.gov (Michael Allen) writes:
>>
>> Any info (with references) on Gedalia ben Achikom and the politics of
>> what lead up to his assisination?  I haven't been able to find more
>> than a couple of sentences here and there.
>> --
>> K'tivah v'Chatima Tova!
>>
>> ===================================================
>> But those who toiled knew nothing of the dreams of
>>         Those Who Planned;
>> And the minds who planned the Tower of Babel
>>         Cared nothing for the workers who built it.
>>
>> 	-Metropolis
>
> Gedaliah  was the prince appointed by the king of Babylonia as
> governor of Judah after the destruction of the First Temple. He was
> assassinated by Jewish zealots. Because of this, many of the Jews who had
> not gone into Babylonian captivity moved to Egypt out of fear of the Babylonian
> king.
>
> Source: 2 Kings 25:22-27
>
> Josh
> backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL
>
>
>
>
>
>

Apropos TZOM GEDALIAH, there's a classic joke about the rabbi who finds one of
his congregants eating on TZOM GEDALIAH. He tells the rabbi that he has three
reasons why he  ate on the fast day:

1) Gedaliah would have died anyway;
2) If I would have been killed, would Gedaliah have fasted for me ?
3) I don't fast on Yom Kippur, I should fast on Tzom Gedaliah ???  :-)

Josh
backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL






Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:17068 soc.culture.polish:3001