HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nss3@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Noel Steere)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Salary Cap should be IMPOSED on spending.
Date: 22 Jul 92 03:16:10 GMT
Reply-To: nss3@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <3367@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes:

>The changes that I think would be best for baseball, financially speaking
>are as follows:
>
>	2. Fix the timing of the salary breakpoints for players.  Under the
>	   current system, players tend to become free agents for the first
>	   time just *after* their best years.  This leads to inflated ideas
>	   of what they're going to be worth in the future, and inevitable
>	   disappointment when they aren't.  It also means that young stars
>	   run the risk of never getting payed for their glory years, if an
>	   injury or other mishap prevents them getting those "payback" years.
>	   I say arbitration after one full year, free agency after three,
>	   and then those long-term contracts make a whole lot more sense.

Why even continue to have arbitration?  IMHO, arbitration is the
biggest reason for inflated salaries, especially when the arbitrator
usually doesn't have a clue as to what makes a good ballplayer (there
was an instance I heard of where a very good pitcher lost his case
because he "didn't have enough wins").  IMHO, they should do away with
arbitration and make everyone a free agent after three/four years.

Funny thing is, which side doesn't want to do this?  The owners!  Some
of them think that having a player thoughout their minor league career
and 3/4 years of major league service isn't enough time to tell how
good a player is going to be.  In other words, they'd rather pay the
*money* to the players instead of putting in the *work* to figure out
who's going to be a star and who isn't.  Strange, isn't it, when you
hear owners complain day in and day out about player salaries being
too high, while they have an answer to their problems that the players
would likely accept?

>-- 
>   David Tate   | "When tomatoes last in the bullpen bloom'd,
> dtate@unix.cis |  And the great star early troop'd to the showers in the night
>    .pitt.edu   |  I mourned, and yet shall mourn with ever-returning spring."
>   IE, U. Pitt  | 	--Walt "Lefty" Whitman

Noel Steere                  |...of the Dave Rossing fan club
GM/Manager, New York Knights |Knights' Run Total: 419 Runs in 84 games
Internet Baseball League     |Projected Season Total: 828  Target: 1000!
nss3@midway.uchicago.edu     |HECTOR VILLANUEVA FOR PRESIDENT
                             |(Heck, the Cubs sure aren't using him!)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: Don Soucy <AB47@UNB.CA>
Subject: RE: ARTIFICIAL TURF: EMBARASSMENT TO THE GAME
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:11:37 GMT

In article <21JUL92.08541720@wums.wustl.edu> peirick_j@wums.wustl.edu writes:
>
>Earlier, IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ryan Robbins) wrote...
>
>(...yadda yadda yadda...)
>
>>But this thing with artificial turf has to be examined.
>
>>Why do the Cardinals, the Royals, the Reds, the Pirates, and the
>>Phillies (all non-dome teams) elect to have artificial turf? If a
>>team is not playing in a dome, then it has no business playing on
>>anything but natural grass.
>
>[Stuff deleted, the gist of which is that a reason for artificial
turf outside is that it drains better and allows for quicker
recoveries after rain delays.  The poster wasn't impressed with
this reason ...]

 I wonder how much of this "shorter rain delays" excuse holds up.
 The Vancouver [B.C.] Canadians, the White Sox TripleA team, plays
in fairly rain-plagued city.  Their jewel of a ballpark is well known
>for its good drainage (and, of course, any jewel of a ballpark, by
definition, has real grass).  After a good downpour, the crew rolls up
the tarp and the game begins.  If Vancouver's Nat Bailey Stadium can
design this good drainage system, why can't other parks?

Don Soucy



Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu (Dave Bonar)
Subject: Re: Ojeda and Benzinger to Montreal RUMOR
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
Organization: News and Views from LSU
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 02:20:08 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-445]: sn01.sncc.lsu.edu

In article <l71836INNgdi@mizar.usc.edu>, pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger) writes...
>The Expos are interested in Bobby O and Todd B.
>Bobby O will pitch Saturday against Montreal and
>look for Todd B to get plenty of playing time this
>weekend...perhaps at first base.  If he plays
>first, you KNOW the Dodgers will be showcasing
>him for Montreal.

	Ojeda might be decent but why would Montreal have any use for
Benzinger?  Do they really expect that Todd will produce more then they
can get from Vanderwal, Colbrunn, Cianfracco, Alou, Calderon, Reed and Stairs?

Dave
__________
Dave Bonar
eebonar@lsuvax.sncc.lsu.edu
__________
From: str@maredsous.Eng.Sun.COM (Todd Rader)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: RC/27 for just about anybody...
Date: 29 Jul 1992 20:47:48 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: str@maredsous.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: maredsous
Keywords: A request

Nelson:

Thanks for all the RC posts.  I do have a request -- would you be willing to
post RC/27 leaders regardless of position also?  Something like a top 50
(or whatever number is convenient) list?  It would make it much easier to
compare RC/27 rankings with OPI and MLV (when available) rankings.

Comments, others?
From: yajima@nttcom.ntt.jp (YAJIMA Hiroshi)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Japan Central League
Date: 29 Jul 92 00:36:01 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: NTT Network Information Systems Labs. Musashino, Tokyo


 Giants 4, Tigers 3
 To my great regret, Tatsunori Hara and Lloyd Moseby got all th runs for
Yomiuri as they banged out home runs to lead the Giants past Hanshin at 
Koshien Stadium.
 Hara hit a two-run homer in the first and former Detroit Tiger Moseby 
produced another two-run shot in the fourth, making it 4-0.
 The Tigers started to chase the Giants, scoring two runs in the bottom of
the fourth on a double by Tom O'Malley and an RBI single by Tsuyoshi Shinjo
off Masaki Saito (10-4).
 
Carp 6, Swallow 2
 At Jingu Ball Park, Hiroshima erupted for four runs in the eighth inning
as the Carp overcame Yakult.

Whales 4, Dragons 2 (13)
R.J.Reynolds belred a two-run homer off Chunichi reliever Tsuyoshi Yoda
in the top of the 13th inning as Taiyo beat the Dragons at Nagoya Stadium.

   H.Yajima
----------------
 
--

    |  / __  __/ __  __/ NTT Network Information Syatems Laboratories
  / | /     /       /    Hiroshi Yajima          yajima@nttcom.ntt.jp
_/  _/    _/      _/     TEL: +81 422-59-4256	 FAX: +81 422-59-4254
                         TELEX +72 0282 2620 NTTECL J
From: jerry@bunker.shel.isc-br.com (Gerald J. Lanza)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: 1st Base Coach
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:08:29 GMT
Organization: ISC-Bunker Ramo, An Olivetti Company (Shelton, CT)

In article <sam.0tpe@terapin.com> sam@terapin.com (Sam Lewit) writes:
>I have one quick and simple question....
>
>What is it exactly that the 1st base coach does? About all I've seen them do is
>pat the batter's butt, and wisper a few things in his ear. Hmmmm....
>

	At the lowest level of baseball and it's variants (e.g., little
	league, slow pitch softball, etc.) the first base coach has two
	major responsibilities: 
	To continually apprise the runner of the game situation, including
	outs, importance of his run, etc., 
	and to instruct the hitter as he approaches the base after hitting
	the ball as to what base to attempt to reach; many times the batter
	cannot follow the ball while running hard, and he may not know the
	strength of throwing arm of the retrieving fielder.

	At higher levels of professional baseball the first base coach
	may be involved in flashing signs to the batter and/or base runners.
	When base stealing is permitted, he watches the postion of the first
	baseman and instructs the runner as to how much of a lead to take.
	
	To go a little further, the first base coach can try to confuse the
	fielders by calling for the ball on a pop up, although this rarely
	works at the professional level. He may also be involved in practice 
	activities such as hitting fungoes to the outfielders, grounders to 
	infielders, and pitching batting practice.

	Last but not least, the first base coach can work on the pitcher 
	and fielders as to their ancestry, lack of ability, ugliness, bad 
	hygiene, etc.


						jerry
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: wilbanks@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Dylan Wilbanks)
Subject: Re: Mock NL Expansion Draft (Long)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 03:43:35 GMT

MONTY FARRIS?

I think the guy drafting for our bungling Rocks was obviously on drugs.
Farris can't field to save his life. Doesn't he still hold the Texas 
League record for errors by a shortstop?
-- 
Dylan Wilbanks, Classics major, class of 2002 (too optimistic?)
"Look! An X-man movie's coming out!"          |Currently at:
c.10 year old in a Tulsa movie theater,       |Box 1143
looking at a poster for _Malcolm X_           |Boulder, CO 80306
From: pitt.edu!dtate+@overmind.mind.org
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: MLB Standings and Scores for Wed, Jul 22, 1992
Date: 22 Jul 92 22:01:00 GMT
Organization: Factors of Ys, Inc.
X-mailer: Stadel 3.4a-227
X-Spam-content: irrelevant

In article <14k0maINNaf2@agate.berkeley.edu> jtchern@ocf.berkeley.edu (Joseph
 Hernandez) writes:

>         MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL STANDINGS FOR WEDNESDAY, JULY 22, 1992

>NATIONAL EAST
>Pittsburgh Pirates    51    43    .543    --      5-5    Lost 3  28-21  
23-22
>Montreal Expos        48    46    .511   3.0     z6-4     Won 2  23-22  
25-24
>New York Mets         46    48    .4894  5.0      6-4     Won 1  25-22  
21-26
>St. Louis Cardinals   45    47    .4891  5.0     z4-6    Lost 4  22-19  
23-28
>Chicago Cubs          43    50    .462   7.5      3-7     Won 1  22-22  
21-28
>Philadelphia Phillies 39    55    .415  12.0      3-7    Lost 2  21-24  
18-31

On Baseball Tonight a couple of days ago, John Saunders annoyed me no end by
saying "At the beginning of the season, *nobody* could have expected the
Montreal Expos to be doing this well, and *nobody* could have expected the
New York Mets to be below .500 at this point in the season, not to mention
the Chicago Cubs failing to get any offense.", or words to that effect.

I must be nobody.  Ditto for Gary and Dave Thornley and about 5 other regular
netsters who picked Montreal to contend, NY to struggle, and Chicago to
flounder.



-- 
        David Tate         |   When I was a rookie arm and bit 
  dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu  |   And the greenest hurler to take the mound
  Prof. of Story Problems  |   (Sighed the old southpaw, dying of innings)...
  Member ORSA, TIMS, SABR  |  "Lament", Dylan 'Big Frank' Thomas
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kean@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Keane Arase)
Subject: Cubs to NL West...NOT!
Summary: This is getting as dumb as this year's election campaigns...
Keywords: cubs, lawsuit, vincent, ridiculous
Reply-To: kean@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:49:29 GMT

And the Cubs win round 1...

A judge (Susan Conlon(?)) in Chicago this morning placed a temporary
injunction on the Cubs' move from the NL East to the NL West, thus
allowing the Cubs to play in the East for at least one more year.

The ruling was the commissioner did not have the authority to move them
from the East to the West (i.e. he overstepped the bounds of his
authority.)

A permanent ruling could come as soon as early next week.

(Hey, don't direct any flames to me folks.  Do you shoot the messenger boy?)

Keane Arase
-- Not a Cubs fan! --
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Wednesday, 22 Jul 1992 08:45:13 CDT
From: Norma Kateeb <U39730@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Where have all the flakes gone?

Are there any modern day flakes left in baseball?
It seems that now that the players' salaries are so
much higher, that very few guys are really playing for the
pure love and enjoyment of the game.  I still love baseball
but I think that there are too few wacko personalities out there.
They used to give the game a lot of color and made it a lot more
fun and interesting. Do we have guys today like Mark "The Bird"
Fidrych" or Bill "Spaceman" Lee?  Even the managers are boring.
No Earl Weavers or Billy Martins that I know of--totally colorless.

Okay fans--is there anyone today--be it player, manager, GM, umpire--
ANYONE who adds some life and fun to the game today?
From: ron@osf.org (Ron Birnbaum)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: YANKEE/RED SOX TICKETS FOR SALE
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:23:51 GMT
Organization: Open Software Foundation

----------------

HI, Gang! I have for sale 4 fantastic tickets to Yankee Stadium for Sunday,
August 9th versus the Boston Red Sox. These seats are Box seats in the Tier (top)
level in section 7 - above the Yankee side on-deck circle. The view from these
box seats (low in the section - Row F seats 1-4) is teriffic!! Seats this good
could not be purchased this year!! These seats were bought last December!!
The price is what I paid for them - $13.50 per ticket plus $2.75 for p/h.
Game time is 1:30 pm. Monument Park closes about 45 minutes before game
time. First email takes them!!

-Ron
 ron@osf.org 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: usscoop1@bnr.ca (Chuck McCusker P015)
Subject: Re: AMATEUR: Miskatonic falls, 1-0, in FANTASTIC 11 inning game.
Keywords: Thornley - the new novel from James Michener.
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP 
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:54:56 GMT

In article <15483@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Lost In Austria Huckabay) writes:
|> Thursday night SVBL action was highlighted by the Miskatonic
|> Cephalopods facing off against Bar Hoppers.
|> 
|> Best SVBL game I've been involved in or seen in a a couple of years,
|> and the crowd to see the game numbered over 100 by game's end.

Gary, and anyone else who would care to respond. Please give me a little
more info on amateur ball. Is it localized i.e. some people in your area
got together and said lets play, or is more on a national level.
Are there different levels of play. I would be intereseted in playing
in such a league but I couldn't hang with ex-major or minor leaguers.
I haven't played in at least 10 years but would like to.
All info would be appreciated.

Chuck Ross - George Scott model first baseman
From: ron@osf.org (Ron Birnbaum)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Red Sox roster moves
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:27:43 GMT
Organization: Open Software Foundation

In article <1992Jul27.032110.2745@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, csquared@coos.dartmouth.edu (Christopher M. Cohen) writes:
|> For anyone who cares, John Marzano and John Valentin have been called up by the
|> Red Sox, Marzano before this evening's game and Valentin after.  To make room,
|> John Flaherty was sent to Pawtucket and Tim Naehring was put on the 15 day DL.

  Close!! Upon urging from Sox fan and rec.sport.baseballer Valentine - 
the Sox are starting John Valentin at Shortstop for tonight's (Monday) game!

-Ron

|> 
|> C Squared
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: japg6581@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (John A. Petterchak)
Subject: Re: Past World Series
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 19:01:56 GMT

jcp29389@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (BEACH VOLLEYBALL!!!) writes:

>noonan@icd3 (Michael Noonan) writes:

>>Does anyone have a list of past World Series?  By that I mean a list of
>>the two teams who played in it each year and which one won.

>>Any help is appreciated.  Especially if you have the last 10 Series.

>>Thanks in advance...
>>-Mike Noonan

>i'll try the last 10 off the top of my head....

>1991: Twins over Braves 4-3
>1990: Reds over A's 4-0
>1989: A's over Giants 4-0
>1988: Dodgers over A's 4-1
>1987: Twins over Cardinals  (memory starting to fail me)
correct
>1986: Mets over Red Sox
>1985: Royals over Cardinals???
correct
>1984: Tigers over Padres
>1983: Orioles and Cardinals???
Orioles over Phillies

>1982: Royals and Phillies???
Cardinals over Brewers

>1981: Yankees and Dodgers???
Dodgers over Yankees

>1980: Brewers and Phillies???
Phillies over Royals

>damn all that alcohol!  corrections are very welcome as I would also like to
>know the world series matchups.

>jay
>------------------------------------------------------------
>if you're a horse, and someone gets on you,
>and falls off, and then gets right back on you,
>i think you should buck him off right away.     -Jack Handey
>------------------------------------------------------------

Here are a few more:
1979: Pirates over Orioles
1978: Yankees over Dodgers
1977: Yankees over Dodgers
1976: Reds over Yankees
1975: Reds over Red Sox
1974: A's over Dodgers
1973: A's over Mets
1972: A's over Reds
1971: Pirates over Orioles
1970: Orioles over Reds
1969: Mets over Orioles
1968: Tigers over Cardinals
1967: Cardinals over Red Sox
1966: Orioles over Dodgers
1965: Dodgers over Twins
1964: Cardinals over Yankees

Memory fails me before that - anyone else want to try?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu (Harold_Brooks)
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Organization: NSSL
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:00:47 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.193135.6882@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (roger maynard) writes:
>
>The only time the argument "who is the better player" has any meaning at all
>is in spring training when one player is trying to beat another out.  And
>seldom is that decision based mainly on statistics.  Of course the nerds well
>try to say that it should be...the rest of the time the question "who is the
>better player" is impossible to answer.  You can determine who has the 
>better DA or OPI or OBA or whatever but that is only going to tell you who
>has the best statistics and not who the best player is.  And if you think that
>they are one and the same then you have closed your eyes to a large part of
>the game.

Are you saying it's impossible to tell whether Fred McGriff or Andres 
Galarraga is a better player?  Barry Bonds or Luis Salazar?  Edgar Martinez
or Gary Gaetti?  Etc., etc.  I hate to ask the question (although the answer
might be amusing), but what the heck does "better" mean to you?  And on what
basis do you think teams make decisions in spring training most of the time?

Harold
-- 
Harold Brooks (NSSL, Norman, OK) hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu
Officially self-employed, self-speaking
Andres Galarraga (Through 21 July)  .194 BA  .286 SLG  .234 OBA
27 H away from .300  6 HBP  3 BB
From: savoy@hg.uleth.ca (Jim Savoy)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: GMaddux to Test Free Agency Waters
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:21:54 GMT
Reply-To: savoy@hg.uleth.ca
Organization: University of Lethbridge


> rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith) writes:

>Maybe he wants to pitch in a pitchers park like say.. Busch Stadium
>or the Oakland Coliseum?

Well if he has any designs on making it into the Hall-of-Fame someday, he
might have to bolt out of Wrigley. He's arguably the best pitcher in the
league, and can probably get any amount of money he wants elsewhere. Oakland
will have a lot of spare cash at the end of the year and they could definitely
use the pitching - my guess is that he will not re-sign with the Cubs unless
they make him an offer as great as the one they made to Sandberg. And my
prediction is that he will be an Athletic next year.


 _____________________________________________________________________________
     Jim Savoy          University Of Lethbridge         savoy@hg.uleth.ca

  Meanwhile in Washington, at the headquarters of F.E.A.R. - the Federal Egg
  Answering Room - in reality a front name for F.E.E.B.L.E. - the Free World
  Extra-Earthly Bodies Location and Extermination Centre... all was not well.
From: tannerg@milton.u.washington.edu (Glenn Tanner)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: YEEEESSSSS!!!!!
Date: 25 Jul 92 21:48:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Jul25.214830.23328
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

>>Gee, and from the subject line I thought this was going to be
>>a thread on the worst announcer in baseball.

>i don't understand what people hate about him.  sure he's biased, but you're
>supposed to be.  other than that i don't see what is so unappealing about him.
>he gives a fair perspective of the game, gives credit where it's due (yes,
>even to the opposing team), 

I heard him say about the Texas series in May, "All week long there have been
two different strike zones.  One for the whites, and one for the grays."
If this is a fair perspective, I'd better throw out my dictionary. 

>and knows what he's talking about.  him and
>paciorek also are quite humorous, which is something that is badly needed 
>during some slow-moving games.
>
>anyway, i just would like to hear why they are hated so much.
>
>jay

I hate Harrelson so much because he takes biased to a new level.  Most hometown
announcers are biased in that they root for their team to do well.  Harrelson 
roots for the WS to win, and gets disgusted when the other teams do anything 
right.  I frequently read or do work while I've got a baseball team on TV.  
The announcer's voice will always tell me when something important happens.
Unless that announcer is Harrelson, who will call a 450-foot home run off the
bat of an opponent in the same tone of voice that he will call a foul ball into
the stands behind the plate.  I never want to see teams that I root against do
well, but then I still admire seeing Kirby Puckett hit one into the gap and 
take the turn at second, or seeing Brady Anderson reach into the crowd to 
take away a home run.  These kind of plays against the WS seem to do nothing
to Harrelson other than to piss him off.

GT
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Date: 28 Jul 92 19:45:35 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Jul28.171430.23037@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri  
Nichols) writes:
> In article <5179@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  
writes:
> >Luck is random. The "slippery essence ... " is superstar A giving
> >it 100% even when he's so tired he wants to sit down, while
> >superstar B, in the same situation, does not.  It is people playing
> >when hurt.
> 
> Can I predict ahead of time which superstar is going to give 100% and  
which
> isn't?  Can I predict ahead of time which injury is going to allow the
> player to play hurt, and which isn't?
> 
> In other words, can I distinguish the "slippery essence" from "luck"?
> 

First of all, looking at this stuff isn't just for prediction. It's
also for evaluating how a player did in some past season.  It's
interesting to look back and say "Yeah, that was a close series,
but XXX making that dive into the stands for the ball (or YYY
beating out that infield hit, even though he hurt his ankle the day
before or ____) was a real turning point."  

(In fact, I'd say that's how most fans, myself included, use stats.
I don't look at the stats and use them to try to predict what
Kirby Puckett or Barry Bonds will do next year--at least not most
of the time.  I like to look at them to get an idea of how they
did this year, and last year, and the year before.)

Also, you can predict with some accuracy for most players. Past
performance is a good indicator most of the time.










--
Jim Mann       jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  Stratus Computer
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball