From: db@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Dave Berry)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Out/Look Articles
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:39:11 GMT
Reply-To: db@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Dave Berry)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

From Albert's post, Ara Wilson's seems to make three main points in her
Out/Look article:
	1. The bisexual movement doesn't have a clear vision of where it
	   wants to go and how it wants to get there.
	2. A lot of bisexuals are basing their ideas of lesbian feminists
	   on 1970's ideas and on stereotypes, instead of actually talking
	   to lesbians.
	3. Supporting the bisexual movements demands for visibility will
	   reduce the space for lesbians and gay men.

I'll give my answers to these in order.

1.  Most bisexual people that I've met want a society in which the sex of our
    sexual partner is of no more relevance than the colour of their eyes.
Maybe this is a longer term or more unrealistic goal than she had in mind!

    She might be remarking on the lack of a central structure in the movement.
The only one that exists, North america's BiNet, is mainly a networking
organisation (I think).  We don't have national or international organisations
with delegates and committees and so forth to decide a common policy. 

    I think this lack of structure is a strength.  Rather than wasting time
fighting each other, we're getting on and doing things - running groups,
conferences, campaigns etc.  There is a great diversity in our organisations,
which reflects the diversity in their membership.  If this is "moving and
shaking" instead of "direction and vision", then let's have more of it!
(NB. I'm disagreeing with Ciaran here.)

    Sometimes I suspect that some people (unconsciously?) want the bisexual
movement to state a single, clear policy so that they can dismiss us on the
basis of a single document. I'd rather ask people to look at the complexities
of our lives and our diverse opinions and actions.  It's harder work, but it
gives a truer picture.

    Finally, if I was being defensive and prickly, I could ask her what is
*the* direction and *the* vision of *the* lesbian and gay movement! I don't
believe it is that uniform.


2.  The key point she's missing here is that people's complaints are based
    on their experience, not on theoretical arguments in old magazines.  It's
not hard to find cases of lesbians (and gay men) oppressing bisexuals.  For
example, see the letters page in the February to June 1989  issues of Spare
Rib (a British feminist magazine - nb. Spare Rib itself isn't too blame), or
see the part of the 1990 series of Channel 4's "Out On Tuesday" (which
featured Sheila Jefferies, a well known lesbian feminist writer with some good
things to say on other topics, slagging off bisexuals).  Or read some of the
stories in Bisexual Lives or Bi Any Other Name, or get someone to tell you the
history of the ban on bisexuals by the London Lesbian and Gay Centre.

    Having said that, I belive that the best way to deal with these problems
is by meeting the "other side" and talking things over.  The bisexual movement
has done that on many occasions, and I believe that she is showing her
ignorance by claiming otherwise.  Of course, sometimes the "other side" has
refused to talk, and then we get nowhere.


3.  Her third point assumes two things. First, that there's only a limited
    amount of space to go round, and second, that lesbians and gay men have
nothing to gain themselves from welcoming bisexuals.
    
    I don't believe that there is a fixed amount of space.  By "admitting"
bisexuals, lesbians and gay men are increasing the numbers of people who
will be out or will campaign for our civil rights.  In addition to campaigning
for acceptance in the lesbian and gay world, we also campaign for acceptance
in the straight world.  And some of us want to find other places where
sexuality is already unimportant, such as raves, alternative music clubs,
and SF cons, with the aim of extending our movement to include these folk. 

    More controversially, I think that some lesbians and gay men themselves
can benefit from meeting bisexuals.  Lisa Power, secretary of the International
Lesbian and Gay Association, made this point at the 9th British bisexual
conference.  Greg Parkinson has already said that he's learnt something from
reading soc.bi.  I'm not suggesting that lesbians and gay men are really
bisexual; I'm saying that some of them can learn more about their sexuality
by comparing it with our sexualities.  Likewise, we can learn from them.


    In conclusion, I think most of her points aren't valid.  But when she
says that we should discuss our differences, she is right.  As long as she
remembers that this applies to her "side" as well!

Dave.
--
 Dave Berry, LFCS, Edinburgh Uni.      db%dcs.ed.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk

Authority is arbitrary.          Nobody is normal.         Assume nothing.