HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ag@nextcube.in-berlin.de (Andreas Gradert)
Subject: Re: SGI Indigo in monochrome?
Organization: Soon with IRIS!
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 02:16:02 GMT

lfeth@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lawrence L Feth) writes:

> We have considered buying an Indigo, but a major application program that
> we wish to run must be run in monochrome not color.  Sun systems can be
> run in forced monochrome mode under X-11, DEC Stations apparently can not.
> Can anyone tell me if they have tried "forced monochrome" under X-11 and
> their impressions of its performance?  Thanks.

Quite a similar question: can I use my EIZO 21" screen on our Indigos?
(XS and Elan) It has BNC connectors, and analog an ECL modes are both possible.
-- 
Andreas Gradert | fon +49 30 6923946 | email ag@nextcube.in-berlin.de
D1000 Berlin 61 | fax +49 30 8825421 |   andreas@unlisys.in-berlin.de
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sgi
From: "alan kennedy" <alan.kennedy@canrem.com>
Subject: trade in value?
Reply-To: "alan kennedy" <alan.kennedy@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: comp
Date: 14 Dec 92 23:52:39 EST

Can anyone give me an idea of what kind of trade in value SGI has given 
them when they purchased new machines? ie: 4D20G and 4D70G??

I'd like to hear from anyone who has done this.

Thanks very much!

Alan Kennedy - alan.kennedy@canrem.com - Toronto, Ontario, Canada

---
  WinQwk 2.0 a#0  Unregistered Evaluation Copy
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sgi
From: dcs@neutron.chem.yale.edu (Chaejoon Cheong)
Subject: Re: New SGI game: Pipeline maze
Organization: Yale University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:19:25 GMT

Klaus Bock (carlkb@uts.uni-c.dk) wrote:
: -------------------------------------- Page 1
: Instructions for reading PIPELINE,
: the magazine published by SGI.
[snip]
: - why is it necessary to break up all the articles
: in small bits and pieces!!!

'Cause they're good articles, otherwise. Very useful!

--
| Dave Schweisguth   Yale MB&B & Chemistry   Net: dcs@neutron.chem.yale.edu |
| Lab phone: 203-432-5208     Fax: 203-432-6144    Home phone: 203-624-3866 |
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sgi,comp.lang.forth,comp.benchmarks
From: penev@venezia (Penio Penev)
Subject: Re: Comparison of R3000 and Intel 386 and 486's
Organization: Rockefeller University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 11:08:36 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Reply-To: penev@venezia.rockefeller.edu
X-Posted-From: venezia.rockefeller.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

David M. Senseman (senseman@ethel.brainlab.utsa.edu) wrote:
: 
: Can anyone send me "speed comparisons" between R3000 and Intel's 386/486 
: chips? (yeah, I know, ......).

I just wrote FORTH (assembler, interpreter, compiler) for the R3000
(actually fort the MIPS RISC family). I did this for the i486 (and
386) protected mode in April, so my memories are fresh.

I'll compare them in the 33MHz version, running out of cache, numbers
are in clocks. Number in brackets are if You cannot fill the delay slot
(which is _rarely_ the case)

			i486		Rx000		
Memory fetches:		1 		1(2)
Register moves:		1		1
Arithmetics 
  out of regs:		2		1
  out of memory		3		1+1
Jumps			3		1(2)
Subroutine call/ret	6		6, sometimes 4
Memory moves:		(5?6?7)		6 	( per 32-bit word)
Loops			(5?)		2
Stack operations	(1?2)/word	1/word + 1		
Multiply/divide		11mul/?div	12m/35d +1-2 for getting 1-2 results to regs
FPU +/-			?		2s/3d (R3000)
FPU *			?		4-single, 5-double
FPU /			?		12s/19d
moves to/from FPU	(10?)		1 + 1-2 if convert is needed.
Cache miss penalty to
	secondary cash	3		no such (R3000)
					? (R4000)
Memory access out
	of cache	memory and bus dependent    

The ?s are lapses of memory.

The R3000 can acomodate 32+32 Kb cache, which _greatly_ helps. 
The i486 has 8 Kb. (which uses somewhat better, because of the shorter instructions size)

The larger cache on the Rx000 allows it to execute out of cache for the greatest 
part of the time. If The i486 runs out of cache, it slows 2-4 times. 
Rx000 has a lot of registers, which act as a very selective and effective cache.

The actual gain depends a lot on the type of task the processor is running.
One should consider the predominance of operation in his application.
For mine - FORTH, which is a very structured and stack-intensive language,
I find it somewhere between 1.5 and 3.
For one of my scientific tasks (Monte Carlo simulation with lots of pointers and 
tables >8K and <32K), it is about 5-7.

For integer multiply/divide the i486 is a lot more conviniant. it has a 64/32=32
bit divide mode, which makes 96(128)/32=64(96) division of very high precision
integers a piece of cake. I love this instructions. On the Rx000 You must
use the brute-force binary divide algorithm, which is slow as hell (comparatively).

For Float, I think, that the R3000 is a bit faster, but less than 2 times.

I'd be interested to hear other comments, especially from folks, who has
programmed both processors.

-- Penio.
From: janb@bast.sics.se (Jan Bogdanski)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sgi
Subject: Indigo Video Modes
Date: 14 Dec 92 12:14:58 GMT

I am looking for technical information how to reprogram INDIGO's video modes to
my own format. I would like to connect  my own video monitor to the workstation.
Its timing is: horozontal frequency - 100 KHz , vertical 180 Hz.
Please do e-mail your response.Thanks in advance
Jan Bogdanski
janb@sics.se
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sgi
From: Bruce@Pixar.com (Bruce Perens)
Subject: Implementing a red-zone malloc debugger - need to invalidate a single page
Organization: Pixar -- Point Richmond, California
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:45:04 GMT

I have a red-zone malloc debugger called Electric Fence that I wrote
for the Sun a while back. To port it to the SGI, I need to be able to
turn off all of the privileges on a page so that any reference
to that page will cause a fault. I've tried all of the obvious ways
to do this with mmap(), to no avail - mmap() won't map page-sized
abutting regions, and it won't map a page without at least read privilege.
What I really need is something that acts like the Sun mprotect() system
call. Is there an implementation of this on the SGI? Failing that, is
there anything that color-codes memory references for debugging like
the Purify software for the Sun?
					Many Thanks

					Bruce Perens
					Pixar
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sgi
From: syscrc@pickle.gsu.edu (Randy Carpenter)
Subject: Re: finding out who's on the console
Organization: Georgia State University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:45:07 GMT

hofmann@nova.tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de (Bernhard Hofmann) writes:

>rcaslis@hydra.acs.uci.edu (Russell Caslis) writes:
>
>
>>Does anyone know an easy way to tell what user is sitting at the console?  I'm
>>converting a perl script of mine from SunOS to IRIX and I need to know which
>>user is logged into the console (if anyone).
>
>I've hacked a little bash-function that does the job well enough for me.
>The idea (in case you're not using the bash :-) is to look at the end of
>/usr/adm/SYSLOG for a line containing 'Xsession:'. It contains all
>the information you need.
>
>konsole() { if test `grep "Xsession:" /usr/adm/SYSLOG | tail -1 | awk -F: '{print $NF; printf "%s", $(NF-1) >"konsoleuser"}' | awk '{print $1}'` != "logout"; then echo -n "The console is used by"; cat konsoleuser; echo "."; else echo "The Console is unused."; fi; rm konsoleuser }
>
>I'm aware that it's quick and dirty. If anybody has any suggestions for
>improvements, please let me know.
>
>Bernhard

Long ago, someone posted a solution and I'm still using it today.
The idea is to create a file called "/etc/console_user" containing the
login of the person logged into the system.

In /usr/lib/X11/xdm, there are 2 files of interest: Xstartup and Xreset.
Put the following in the Xstartup file:

   echo $USER > /etc/console_user

Put the following in the Xreset file:

   /bin/rm -f /etc/console_user

I wrote a "w" replacement script that would print the contents of the
/etc/console_user file.  (I couldn't figure out a shell alias that would
work):

   #!/bin/sh
   if /bin/test -f /etc/console_user; then
       /usr/bsd/w
       /bin/echo `cat /etc/console_user`   is on the graphics monitor.
   else
       /usr/bsd/w
   fi

Put this in your $HOME/bin.  Then, "alias w ~/bin/w".
Hope this helps.
-- 
===========================================================================
Randy Carpenter                    rcarpent@gsu.edu          % Got a light?
Georgia State University           (404) 651-2648            No match.
Wells Computer Center                                        %
From: jchauvin@netcom.com (John H. Chauvin)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sgi
Subject: IRIS Font Library: font scaling
Date: 11 Dec 92 19:14:27 GMT

Can someone tell me if the IRIS font manager is able to scale a font to 
a size which is not available, in the same way that PostScript does? 
For example, the font courier roman is available in the following 
sizes:8,10,12,14,16,18,20,24,32 as defined in the font directory 
/usr/lib/fmfonts. Is it possible to obtain sizes 11,13,15,and 19? The man 
page for fmscalefont says "If you request a size for which there is no 
font, the Font Library routines choose the font that matches closest but 
is not larger than the requested size." This does not sound like font 
scaling to me. This is the exact behavior I am experiencing in a gl 
program I am using. A font size of 15 points using courier looks like 14 
points. But another man page on fmscalefont says "Its functionality 
parallels the scalefont operator of PostScript." A font defined to be 15 
points using PostScript is definitely larger than 14 points. 

Font Confused


jchauvin@netcom.com

-- 
John H. Chauvin jchauvin@netcom.COM
Netcom - Online Communication Services San Jose, CA
From: maple@peregrine.eglin.af.mil (Raymond C Maple)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sgi
Subject: Re: Xor line drawing
Date: 16 Dec 92 15:07:08 GMT


Check out the man page for logicop.

I have used this with no problems on TG, base indigo, and VGX graphics.
On Elan graphics, however, the dithering done in double buffer mode causes
the second draw (restoration to original color) to produce slightly different
colors for some background colors, resulting in some very ugly artifacts.
For my application it didn't really matter, but...

Raymond C. Maple
WL/MNAA Computational Fluid Dynamics Section
Eglin AFB FL
maple@peregrine.eglin.af.mil
From: samuel@cs.ubc.ca (Stephen Samuel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sgi
Subject: Re: SGI workstations in the schools?
Date: 17 Dec 1992 16:01:03 -0800
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: comp
NNTP-Posting-Host: lucille.cs.ubc.ca

amys@TheImprov.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Amy Swanson) writes:

>In <WALVER.92Dec15073151@kielo.uta.fi> walver@kielo.uta.fi (Ville V. Walveranta) writes:

>>        Are the Silicon Graphics workstations (Personal IRIS,
>>        INDIGO...) in use in any college as a primary teaching/lab tool
>>        in the computer graphics/animation department?

>>        How about apps like Alias, TDI Explore, SoftImage, Creative
>>        Licence...? Any schools?
Here at UBC, we have numerous SGIs (ranging from old 4D/70s thru a crimson).
These machines (along with a bunch of IBM RS-6000s) are used for research and
teaching in graphics and animation.  Commercial software we use includes
Alias, Wavefront, Vertigo,  VoxelView , and a few others.  I find the 
machines are excelent platforms for graphics work.
-- 
-- 
Stephen Samuel 		(604)822-9248		samuel@cs.ubc.ca
The first prerequisite to winning is playing the game.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sgi,comp.sys.sgi.bugs,comp.unix.ultrix
From: murphy@ufp.dco.dec.com (Rick Murphy)
Subject: Re: tempnam(3S) bug, possibly on all MIPS
Reply-To: murphy@ufp.dco.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Landover MD
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 04:33:41 GMT


Looking at errno after calling a library routine that hasn't failed isn't
a useful thing to do. The call succeeded - you've got no reason to go looking
at errno.
	-Rick
From: olson@anchor.esd.sgi.com (Dave Olson)
Subject: Re: CRASHED INDIGO: help !
Keywords: indigo,crash
Organization:  Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 18:41:22 GMT

In <1992Dec13.193644.25414@syma.sussex.ac.uk> johnu@syma.sussex.ac.uk (John E. Upham) writes:

| I came in this morning, switched on the monitor and nothing. The screen
| was blank, the network had hung as a result and when I pressed the reset
| button the LED remained green and didnt evevn blink. I switched off
| and on the LED came on green and stayed there with no boot tune being
| played.
| 
| Help !
| 
| The m/c is an R4k indigo IP20, with 4.0.5f OS with 48 Mb RAM.

It sounds like a bad power supply.  At a guess, this has been
upgraded from an r3k Indigo, but the powersupply wasn't replaced.

There were also some problems with some 3rd party RAM that wasn't
'properly designed' for r4k Indigos.
--
Let no one tell me that silence gives consent,  |   Dave Olson
because whoever is silent dissents.             |   Silicon Graphics, Inc.
    Maria Isabel Barreno                        |   olson@sgi.com
Xref: sparky comp.sys.sgi:18220 comp.sys.sgi.bugs:21 comp.unix.ultrix:8980
From: svec5@menudo.uh.edu (T.C. Zhao)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sgi,comp.sys.sgi.bugs,comp.unix.ultrix
Subject: tempnam(3S) bug, possibly on all MIPS
Date: 18 Dec 1992 22:23:37 -0600
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: menudo.uh.edu

It appears that tempnam(3S) is broken on three MIPS machines I have
access to:   IRIX 3.3, Ultrix 4.1, UMIPS 4.52:

/* 
 * check to see if tempnam has the errno bug.
 */
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <unistd.h>
#include <errno.h>

int main(int argc, char **argv)
{
   char *p;
   errno = 0;
   p = tempnam(0, 0);
   if(errno) fprintf(stderr," tempnam is broken\n");
   return 0;
}
Xref: sparky comp.sys.sgi:18117 gnu.misc.discuss:4017
From: davea@quasar.mti.sgi.com (David B.Anderson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sgi,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: makefile for gnu make on SGI
Date: 17 Dec 92 00:31:32 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA

In article <1992Dec16.224421.2340@microunity.com> brendan@microunity.com (Brendan Eich) writes:
>In comp.sys.sgi, "Stephen E. Bacher" <seb1525@mvs.draper.com> writes:
>| Irix Release 4.0.1 System V (which is where I did the build)
>| appears to have __builtin_alloca, as shown in /usr/include/alloca.h,
>| which is why I used -Dsparc (which doesn't trigger anything else in
>| this particular make).  Is this OK to use, or do I still need to get
>| the GNU alloca?
>
>I think the Irix __builtin_alloca works only in certain contexts.
>Someone should double-check my memory, but I believe you can't
>
>	array[i] = alloca(1024);
>
>nor can you
>
>	call_a_function(alloca(1024));
>
>There may be other restrictions.  If the man page doesn't treat them,
>the release notes may.  Or you could enquire on comp.sys.sgi -- Dave
>Anderson will have the answer.
>
>Rather than worry, I just grabbed gcc alloca.c.
[stuff deleted for brevity]

Brendan is quite right.  And it _is_ probably simplest to use gcc alloca.c

	call_a_function(alloca(100));
is not portable as I recall, so it is not wise to do it.

We've fixed alloca in the compilers for the next major release so
the problems compiling gnu-make with the built-in-alloca should go away.

Regards,
[ David B. Anderson             (415)390-4263             davea@sgi.com ]
From: olson@zuni.esd.sgi.com (Dave Olson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sgi
Subject: Re: 8mm tape drive - how to store 4.5GB
Date: 12 Dec 92 09:12:22 GMT

In <1992Dec10.132201.27325@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu> atul@sgi1.fels.temple.edu (Atul Kumar) writes:

| I have an 8mm tape drive on my sgi box. The tapes store only 2.5 GB (in tar 
| format) although it says on the tape 4.5 GB. Could somebody suggest a way to
| increase capacity (if its possible).

Sounds like the tapes you have list the capacity if used on an 8500, but
you have an 8200, or have an 8500, but are writing in 8200 mode.

See what 'mt stat' reports.
--

     Dave Olson (olson@sgi.com)
From: n102ef@tamuts.tamu.edu (Ming Niu)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sgi
Subject: A Question About Audio Files
Date: 14 Dec 92 08:28:15 GMT

Hello!  I am using SGI Indigo to analyse
various sound.   I know AIFF is a standard
file format for an audio file.

From the standard audio file, how can I 
get the amplitude of the sound within?

After decoding, one should have a sequence
of integers or floating points(I am not sure)
which represent the amplitudes of the sound
wave in a period of time.   If the sampling
rate is 44.1KHz, that means there are 44,100
integers or floating points.

How can I get these numbers?   Anyone knows
the answer?     Thanks!
From: walker@owl.asd.sgi.com (Christopher Walker)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sgi
Subject: Re: IL derived file format and memeber functions
Date: 11 Dec 1992 18:23:09 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: owl.asd.sgi.com


In article <34506@adm.brl.mil>, rose@baby.swmed.utexas.edu writes:
> I have extended the IL by deriving a new file format from 
> ilFileImg.  Then, in my main I executed ilAddImgFileFormat to
> register my file format.  Now I can open my file with ilOpenImgFile.  
> I have defined functions for my derived class.  However, if I
> open my file with ilOpenImgFIle, the image type is ilFileImg not
> MR_file (my file type).  As far as I understand it, if the
> image type is MR_file, then I'd be able to access its member 
> functions.  Does this mean that if I want to access member
> functions that I should really use the constructor for MR_file?
> Or does this mean that I can't access member functiona and I'm
> probably going about this all wrong?  Please respond directly to
> me because I am currently not receiving mail from this list.

The intended usage it to call getImageFormat on the ilFileImg* to determine
what format you've opened.  If the format is some type you want to deal with
specially then you can freely cast the returned ilFileImg* pointer to a 
pointer to the derived file format's class, and away you go.

---
Chris Walker (x1106 or walker@sgi.com)
From: behrens@iw.uni-hannover.de (Stephan Behrens)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sgi
Subject: How to run XView on an Iris
Date: 14 Dec 92 17:00:56 GMT
Reply-To: behrens@iw.uni-hannover.de
Organization: Institut fuer Werkstoffkunde, Uni Hannover

I have to use the applications from Devguide on an Iris 4D/80GT under
IRIX 3.3.1. How can I make XViev run under IRIX 3.3.1?
Thanks, for you help. Please send e-mail to me.

Stephan

behrens@iw.uni-hannover.de
From: gaumondp@ere.umontreal.ca (Gaumond Pierre)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sgi
Subject: Bug in ls -L ?
Date: 14 Dec 92 22:25:19 GMT

if I do (on csh):

% ls -l /usr/bin/vi
l---------   1 root     sys            2 Mar 29  1992 /usr/bin/vi -> ex
% ls -L /usr/bin/vi
/usr/bin/vi

The man pages for ls say about "-L" parameter:

     -L   If the file is a symbolic link, list the file that the link
          references.

I should have obtained "/usr/bin/ex" with the ls -L commabd. Is it a bug?
Is there something I did not understand?

Thanks for any information.

-- 
Pierre Gaumond.        gaumondp@ERE.UMontreal.CA
Services Informatiques, Universite de Montreal. 
C.P. 6128, Succursale "A", Montreal,            
Quebec, Canada.   H3C 3J7                       
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sgi
From: herber@andy.bgsu.edu (Steve Herber)
Subject: Re: XDM configuration question...
Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:23:26 GMT

buck@ra.nrl.navy.mil (Loren Buchanan) writes:
> In article <BzB5HH.FL8@andy.bgsu.edu> herber@andy.bgsu.edu (Steve Herber) writes:
>>I have been trying to configure the config files for XDM to allow
>>a X window login box to appear on my SGI console but to prevent
>>XDM from responding to network broadcast requests.  
> 
> [[[bunch of deleted stuff was here]]]
> 
>>...so basicly, how do I turn off the ability for the SGI XDM server
>>to respond to these network broadcasts?  
> [stuff...]
> B Cing U
> 
> Buck
> 
> P.S.  You could set up your X-Terminals to point to a particular machine
> for XDM service.  That is what we do here, but as I found out yesterday
> when the machine that has my terminals configuration file on is down and
> I reboot my X-Terminal I get a login prompt for some random machine on the
> net.
>

True,  This is what I have done here in the short term but that looses
the redundancy that the broadcast function gives me allowing me to have
multiple XDM servers on my network.
 
> -- 
> Loren Buchanan (buck@curie.nrl.navy.mil) | #include <standard.disclaimer>
> NRL Code 5842, 4555 Overlook Ave.        | #include <computer.graphics>
> Washington, DC 20375      (202) 767-3884 | #include <electronic.music>
> Phone tag, America's fastest growing business sport.

Steve
-- 
Steve Herber			Internet	herber@andy.bgsu.edu
Systems Programming Manager	BITNET		HERBER@BGSUOPIE
Bowling Green State Univ.	UUCP		...!osu-cis!bgsuvax!herber
From: karron@karron.med.nyu.edu (Dan Karron (karron@nyu.edu))
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sgi
Subject: imgworks don't
Date: 19 Dec 92 00:12:46 GMT


If I read in a very large .tiff file from our handy dandy mac scanner,
I need to crop it down for a display that will fit the screen.
This involves shrinking the image 50%, and cropping from the
top and the bottom.

To remove from the top, take pixels from the bottom. And versa visa...(sp?)

I use the sgi save format, and it reverses things yet again. I
can make only symmetrical crops from the top and bottom to get things
almost ok.

Is this a known problem (I am running 4.0.2 on an Indigo) ?
When will we have some kind of overlay box outline cropping facility ?
I do like the numeric entry for creating nice, symmetrical, even
sized images. However, I spend a lot of time guessing at the numbers
to get things to come out ok. I have to guess a lot because what
the numbers do is not what you would expect from the gizmos!

Cheers!

Dan.
| karron@nyu.edu (e-mail alias )         Dan Karron, Research Associate      |
| Phone: 212 263 5210 Fax: 212 263 7190  New York University Medical Center  |
| 560 First Avenue                       Digital Pager  <1>  212 397 9330    |
| New York, New York 10016               <2> 10896   <3> <your-number-here>  |
``Too busy doing to write about it, too busy writing to do anything about it.''

Newsgroups: comp.sys.sgi
From: ram@ramsgi.erenj.com (ram rajagopalan)
Subject: Inventor Question
Organization: Exxon Research & Engineering Co.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:49:33 GMT

Hi,

 I am trying to use Inventor to draw about 800 spheres.  I find the 
 performance to be very slow.  I am not sure why this is happening.
 I am using transforms to position the sphere and scale the sphere
 and then creating the node sphere. All these are done under a 
 separator node so that the transforms are not cumulated.    

 My question is this.  Is there a better way of doing this to increase
 performance.  Thanks.

-- 
regards,

Ram.

==============================================================================

Ram  Rajagopalan                                        Phone: (908) 730-2556
Exxon Research & Engineering Co.                        Fax:   (908) 730-3042 
RT 22 East Annandale, NJ - 08801                        Email: ram@erenj.com

==============================================================================