HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wchow@questor.org (William Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Sparring and obscure styles
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 00:06:40 PST
Organization: Questor|Free Usenet News|Vancouver, BC: +1 604 681 0670

I am presently using someone elses PC to contact other martial artists
who are interested in sparring,  exchanging techniques,  or just 
conversing about various martial arts in general.  Frankly,  I was 
surprised that such an information exchange on this subject matter even
existed!  My name is Richard Chan and I am a very open minded martial 
artist.  Regardless of your style,  please contact me through this BBS so
we can chat and possibly get together.  I would like to know more about 
other martial arts and the people behind them since I have very few 
connections in the martial arts community.  Please contact me care of 
this ID.  Take care.

--
    Arctic Animation   *   Orange Road Project   *   Maison Ikkoku Project
 William Chow, chief coordinator, 2830 E. 8th Ave, Vancouver BC Canada V5M 1W9
      Telephones:  [+1 604]  254-1833(w)  657-8275(cell)  253-4227(res)   .
       <<  Providing understandable anime to the fandom it serves.  >>      
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: fwong@bnr.ca (Frank Wong)
Subject: Re: Philosophy vs. Technique
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:38:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.180350.23808@b8.b8.ingr.com> anthony@panzer.b17b.ingr.com (Anthony Shipman) writes:
>I am more interested in the philosophy aspects of the martial arts than
>the actual practice. I have studied Tae Kwon Do, but am no longer practising. I
>also practice Tai Chi and Hatha yoga informally.
>
>Does anybody know of any particularly good books about Martial Arts philosophy,
>especially dealing with Chi (Ki, Qi, take your pick). I'm not interested in books
>about straight martial arts techniques, nor am I looking for books strictly
>limited to Zen or other philosophy. However, any books combining the two subject
>areas would be great!
-- 

I would recommend the following books :

Scholar Warrior by Deng Ming Dao (Student of Kwan Saihung)
Qiqong:The Ancient Chinese Way to Health by Paul Dong & A. Esser
Qiqong:The Root of Chinese Kung Fu by Yang Jwing Ming


These title are off the top of my head, so I hope I have them right. :)

The book Scholar Warrior is excellent, there is info. on Qiqong, diet,
herbs, philosophy, meditation, and lots more. It is not a how to do
Kung Fu techniques book, but more a book on philisophy & spirituality.
If you have not read other books by Deng Ming Dao, you will find them
equally as good ; The Wandering Taoist, Seven Bamboo Tablets of the Cloudy
Satchel, A Gateway to a Vast World, which are excellent biographies of Master
Kwan Saihung. Relly good reading, lots of martial arts stuff. I think that these books would make a great movie. They're based on the true life of Master Kwan
Saihung. Now if we could only get Li Lin Jie (Jet Lee) to play the part of youngMaster Kwan. I'm sure that Master Kwan could play himself very well. :}

Regards,

Frank

Any students of Kwan Saihung out there ? Please email me if you know of
any seminars he will be giving.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
 Frank Wong                  ** * * * * *    e-mail: fwong@bnr.ca
 Mechanical Engineer
 Bell Northern Research
 Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
                            
 Standard disclaimers... - BNR does not own or share my opinion!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bwebb@nrchh129.RICH.nt.com (Brad Webb)
Subject: Re: Chito-Ryu info
Organization: Northern Telecom, Inc.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:24:21 GMT


=> Chito-Ryu,
=
=	Is that the martial art that goes "crunch" ?  Made with real
=cheddar?  The Orange Fingers of Death? 
=
=	:-)	:-)	:-)	:-)	:-)	:-)	:-)
=
=

Actually W.Rat... it's the style of karate taught by a Dr. Chitose.
I'm not sure whether he was Japanese or Okinawan, however I believe
the Mr Funkakoshi Ginchin knew of Dr. Chitose and thought VERY highly
of his karate.

b. webb, dallas, tx.

p.s. okay, okay it was funny.... 
       hey W.Rat are you Chester Cheetah in disguise??                  
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe)
Subject: Re: Describing techniques in words - Yuk!
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 09:07:14 GMT

In article <memo.811753@cix.compulink.co.uk> bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>Does anyone have a neat way of describing techniques without a great long
>description in words. i.e. some form of ascii short hand notation that
>is clear. If not can we develop one? Something that everyone here can
>learn to use so that we can discuss more technical concepts without being
>too badly misunderstood.

This is a real bear.  I try to write down our forms and dissect them by
technique, so I can rearrange the techniques into "what can I do from
here" sequences.  So far, my success depends upon the subtlety of the
material.  In general, I've found that I can notate something such that
someone else that has learned the material from an instructor already
can follow my notes and use them to remind themselves of what techniques
are what.  I doubt you would figure out what was going on unless you had
at least seen it a few times.  The external styles weren't too bad, but
the weapons and the internal styles are tough.

I use abbreviations like:

HS - horse stance
BS - bo stance  (RFF - right foot forward, LFF - etc.)
BBS - back bo stance
NS - natural stance
CS - cat stance
HCS - high crane stance
LCS - low crane stance
SSS - seven-star stance
FS - fei (sp?) stance 
MS - monkey stance
BdS - bird stance
etc...

LH/RH - lefft/right hand
NSEW - obvious
CW/CCW - clockwise, etc.
0-360 - degrees

BF - backfist
HF - horizontal fist
RF - reverse fist
VF - vertical fist
HmF - hammer fist
TH - twist hit
HSH - horiz. side-hand
VSH - vertical side-hand
ES - elbow strike (VES, HES -- vert, horiz)
KS - knee strike
FS - finger strike (context dependent)
PES - phoenix-eye strike
BOH - back of hand
BOW - back of wrist
etc...

Then there are the kicks (over 20 different kinds...)

Anyway, you get the idea.  Many of the techniques have names anyway, so it
saves time.

I use it mostly as a mnemonic device, not as a technique for marshalling
the MA data in a style-independent format.  I personally doubt that it
is really possible to do it well enough so that a beginner could figure
it out.

It's much more fun to get together and try it on each other... ;-)

D

-- 
========================================================================
Dave Smythe   N6XLP    dsmythe@netcom.com (also dsmythe@cs.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: plumpton@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au (David Plumpton)
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Organization: University Of Wollongong
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 22:04:43 GMT

egross@jarthur.claremont.edu (Erik Maynard Gross) writes:

>In article <42441@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> ph2sct@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Dzu Nguyen) writes:
>>I think what I would do is put a nikyo (aikido, the 'tupperware'
>>technique). Drop him with my center thereby ripping out his
>>shoulder. Then I would keep the pin because even if he is 7' 300
>>lbs. and using PCP, he won't be able to get out of the pin without
>>ripping his arm off.  As for the second thing i would do,
>>well...that's all folks.
>>
>>Dave (using Dzu's account)
>>
>>
>	Nikyo is generally a great technique, but I'm not so sure about 
>its appliaction here.  Nikyo is genreally a "pain" technique.  Although there
>are non-pain uses, but they are very difficult.  Remember that this guy is very strong, and is on PCP.
>	At your dojo, try doing nikyo on someone who is fairly strong,
>and tell them to resist it.  It's surprisingly hard, even for an advanced
>Aikidoka.
>	Also, in our "Thugs" altered state, why would ripping his shoulder
>out bother him?  He probably wouldn't notice it till he had killed a few 
>more people.
>	In addition, any technique that rely's on his reaction (ie, you 
>lower him, and expect him to stand back up) would not be ideal, because 
>his reactions are liable to be bizzare. 
>	The one thing PCP can't alter is the laws of physics.  My assumption
>is that he is charging you, so probably "simple" randori throw.  It would
>get you on the other side of him, and give you a chance to practice 
>nike-dori until you could call the cops.

My Karate Sensei has told us a couple of times that a sufficiently enraged,
drugged or mentally handicapped person can escape from *any* form of joint
lock or hold by simple brute force. He told us a story about some extremely
pleasant businessman who would become a total psycho after two drinks in a 
bar, and have to be restrained. He says that he got a perfect joint lock
on this guy immediately (and when he does a joint lock, it's pretty
awesomely effective in my experience), but the guy managed to lift him off
the ground "like a dry twig". My Sensei must mass at least 85 kilos.
He went on to say that the only way to deal with such a person is to choke
them, no air no fight.

The style is Kan Zen Ryu Karate, for the record.
-- 
/------------------------------\ /-------------------------------\
I       David Plumpton          I     There is a holy trinity:    |
I plumpton@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au I N Tesla, R Feynman and C Sagan  |
\------------------------------/ \-------------------------------/
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osborn@socs.uts.edu.au (Tom Osborn)
Subject: Re: More ki/qi/chi & science
Organization: Computing Sciences, Uni of Technology, Sydney.
Date: 17 Dec 92 06:38:52 GMT

Rather than a metaphor, an analogy:

"Chi is to cerebellum" as "homonculus is to frontal cortex".

Learning of skilled behaviour goes through a normal "conscious, clutzy"
phase (cortical processing), which then - with familiarity, patience and 
practice (re-inforcing the associations, rhythms, cues, ...) - gets 
"hard-wired" in the cerebellum. 

Some people rarely get to this stage in what they are learning, especially 
if there is a lot of emotional noise associated with conscious learning,
or the necessary attention, or pride, etc. Others get there for many skills 
and integrate these nicely. The former has little chi, the latter has much. 

[A homonculus is a hypothetical specialist agent in a person's head which
carries out the details of specific tasks. An arrangement of such homonculi,
purportedly, constitute "mind", "consciousness", "awareness", etc.]

Tomasso.
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: stranglehold
Date: 11 Dec 92 17:19:57 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1g7ui6INNi5v@male.EBay.Sun.COM> scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>If you can continue fighting with a choke (trachea constriction), then
>it simply is not properly applied. The forearm needs to be set against

	Yes, absolutely.  And I submit that it is impossible to properly
apply a choke using the technique of grabbing the opponent's neck in
your hands and squeezing.  Unless you're Andre the Giant.

>From a standing position this is called Hadaka Jime Ichi (naked constriction

	When we do this we slide the "bar" hand back deeply enough so 
that we contact the arteries in the side of the neck with the bones of
the wrist.  You can apply the strangle with very little pressure.

>Naked chokes should always be a NO NO. Practiced only under the stricktest

	If you practice them against the arteries rather than the trachea
they're safe.  (Provided someone knows how to rescusitate the guy who's
too slow to tap...)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: robin2@garfield.cs.mun.ca (Robin Collier)
Subject: Re: group for judo?
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:03:06 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.191654.17737@rchland.ibm.com> tmaas@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Anthony Maas) writes:
>|> 	Your loss, I think.  I get an awful lot out of reading discussions
>|> about other arts, and adding my own perspective.  And vice-versa.
>|> 
>
>I also think it's his loss.  As to how this relates to MA, I know several instructors who won't teach their kids anything other than straight TKD, or straight Karate, but I for one am glad that I've had the chance to be exposed to a solid base of TKD, with some aikido, jujitsu, escrima, and boxing thrown in.  He (my instructor) wants to give us a wide base with which to learn from and choose the techniques that we find the most effective.  
>
>I know that there are those out there that feel if you can't master one art, why try to master four.  Personally I feel greatly enriched having had a broad base  - as long as you feel confidant with what you know, what does it matter?  
>
>Bring on any flames... my opinions are my own, definitely...
>
>Tony Maas
>IBM Rochester, MN

No Flame, my instructor will teach anything that will work, after all, the idea
isn't to master four martial arts at once, its to master the art of fighting.  At
least this is the physical end of most martial arts.  I do believe in using your
abilities for defense only, but it still comes down to being the best fighter you
can be.  Doesn't it? 

Robin Collier
robin2@garfield.cs.mun.ca
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Quick response was Quick question
Date: 12 Dec 92 19:18:26 GMT
	<MARY.92Dec10122605@martinique.Cayman.COM> <4339@unisql.UUCP>
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: wrat@unisql.UUCP's message of 11 Dec 92 17:34:45 GMT


In article <4339@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:

   In article <MARY.92Dec10122605@martinique.Cayman.COM> mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros) writes:
   > [ the hands around the neck thing ]
   >Yes, Wharfie, they can.  I've seen it.  Case CLOSED.

	   Can you describe the circumstances?  Was it a case of a very
   large person attacking a very small and untrained person?  

It was a case of a slightly-larger-than-average man attacking a young
woman of about 14, who was herself slightly larger than average (perhaps
5' 6" or 5' 7").  Neither party had any training that I know of.

	   Please don't take (stop taking?) my questions as some kind of
   personal attack.  It's simply that I have a fair amount of experience
   with shime-waza (strangles) and have real problems understanding how
   such a primitive non-technique could give even a minimally trained person
   more than a moment's pause.  So take the opportunity to teach me something
   instead of flaming me.

For heaven's sake, Wharfie.  I'm sure that, had you been in her position,
you would have applied some incredibly nifty judo technique against his
incredibly primitive stranglehold, and been laughing about it over beers
a scant fifteen minutes later.  But guess what?  She didn't have your 
training!  She didn't have ANY training that I know of, and that "primitive
non-technique" was working just fine against her.  If this had happened
in an isolated location, without people around, she would have been dead.

Guess what?  The average person ISN'T "even...minimally trained".  Not 
any.  Not one little tiny bit.  Someone who has a size and strength
advantage can use such "primitive non-techniques" to considerable effect
against 98% of the population.  Given that, I wonder if it isn't foolish
for us as martial artists to get all haughty and dismiss such techniques
as unsophisticated.  I can see it now: Criminal Sociopath attacks Joe
Blackbelt with an incredibly primitive stranglehold, which he uses 
because he's had such good luck with it in the past.  Joe Blackbelt 
sneers, "What an incredibly primitive technique!  Now I just...urrk..."
and collapses into bye-bye land, because Joe's been spending all his
time working on the much more difficult counters to much more sophisticated
attacks and never bothered to learn this basic stuff...

	   Idle question:  do you think you could apply nikkyo against this
   attack?  I'll have to wait until Monday to try it...

Beats me, what the hell's a "nikkyo"?  

Hey, I'm a punchy-kicky, I'll stick to my sternum-strike.  It works.  
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH
From: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM (David Scheid)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: strangleholds, length of time to work,
Date: 12 Dec 1992 02:04:00 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: danzan.ebay.sun.com

In article 4349@unisql.UUCP, wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>In article <1gaj4bINNco7@male.EBay.Sun.COM> scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>>(BTW, all you Judokas,a proper Kata Gatame is a complete strangle, not a 
>>time-hold as taught in Judo.)

>	Could you elaborate on this?  I know how to make it uncomfortable
>by squeezing the neck betwen my upper and lower arm...

Ensure that your elbow is back by the ear. Most of the time people
apply the forearm to this area, inflicting pain. By getting the arm
further back, the biceps constricts the proper area. Uke's shoulder
does the job on the opposite side if your neck is under the shoulder
and driving the shoulder up towards the temple. Since you cannot see
Uke, always ensure there is a 3rd person watching. Uke goes out in 3.
Count em. Complete by 5.

Don't practice without qualified supervision. For info only. 

---
Dave Scheid - All Disclaimers Apply
From: twcaps@tennyson.lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Tai Chi Instructor in Highland Park, NJ
Date: 13 Dec 1992 08:46:31 GMT
Organization: Department of Redundancy Department
Reply-To: TWChan@lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.117

wut@acf3.NYU.EDU (Tom Wu) writes:
  +
  +	Since there seems to be a lot of people on this net
  +looking for a good Tai Chi Instructor in NJ, I'll post one of
  +them here. His name is Benjamin, and he has been practicing 
  +tai chi for 30 years. His style is "Wu" short form, consisting
  +about 200 movements. If you are interested, give him a call.

A 200 movement short form?  I guess it depends on how you count
them, but this sure sounds to be on the long side.  Is this school
related to the Eddie Wu branch?

Terry "How many movements in the 'long form'?" Chan
--
Energy and Environment Division   | Internet:  TWChan@lbl.gov
Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory      | 
Berkeley, California  USA  94720  | Carpe Per Diem
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: lchurch2@bluemoon.use.com (Leonard Church)
Subject: Re: heavy bags
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 13:57:57 EST

> But the question is...if I hit a 70-lb. bag and feel a certain 
> amount of resistance, what is that equivalent to in people-pounds?
> In other words, what weight of person would cause me to feel the 
> same resistance?  Is it a simple constant, or what?
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
>  mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TE
> 


Well you are probably talking in the range of say 150 to 180 lbs. We used 
canvas and leather bags for a while till we found vinyl ones called 
POWERPUNCH which you have air and water in.  The water not only gives you 
the weight it also gives you the feel of actually punching on a live 
target.  But I prefer the live targets :)

Leonard Church

-------------------------------------------------------------
Growing trees in a concrete Jungle | lchurch2@bluemoon.rn.com
-------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,rec.arts.dance,rec.folk-dancing
From: nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle)
Subject: Re: Dance Notatation
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 07:01:17 GMT

esh6h@fulton.seas.Virginia.EDU (Erik Scot Hatcher) writes:
>Hello!
>I'm a martial artist and I've looking to document some of
>my moves (forms,katas, etc).
>I've heard of a dance notation that is used to put the
>moves on paper.

      Now that's an interesting concept.

      Labanotation can probably notate martial arts moves, although 
it's not well-suited for recording detailed hand actions.  (You could
probably notate a wrist grip, but not tying a shoelace).  Contact the
Dance Notation Bureau in New York City.  Books are available.

      There's a Mac program for writing Labanotation, developed at
the DNB extension at Ohio State.

      But actually, dance notation isn't used much.  Few dancers know it,
and choreographers don't compose in it.  It's used to make a historical
record of major dance works for later revival, and not much else.

      I once considered Labanotation as an input form for an animation
system.  Terrible idea.

					John Nagle
From: dsr@bnr.co.uk (D.S.Riches)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Judo Esoterica
Date: 16 Dec 1992 19:03:28 GMT
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, London Road, Harlow, England.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.199.202.51

In article <1992Dec16.112755.5720@ms.uky.edu> taddiken@ms.uky.edu (scott taddiken) writes:
>One of the two fundamental principals of judo is "Maximum Efficiency,
>Minimum Effort."  "That sounds exactly like my art!" I hear you exclaim.

[stuff deleted]

>Move around slowly and loosely, as if in some somnolent randori.  Throwee
>picks three times to push strongly (or whatever he's supposed to do).
>Thrower throws on the third.  In the throws where throwee is supposed to
>do that silly overhead strike, instead have him take one grip and make
>a huge grab at an over-the-back grip with the other hand.
>
>I've said enough. :)
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Scott Taddiken, University of Kentucky
>


I like that, I'll give it a go tonight.  I especially like the response
to the over-the-back grip since I've been trying to think of counters
to someone who does just that and all the ones so far aren't working :-(
But then he's a first dan in the U21 British squad and I'm a mere 1st
kyu who's just come back after a 1.5 year lay off.

I'd be interested in some advice on countering this guy anyway.

He always gets a grip by pulling down on my RH with his LH and putting
his RH over my back.  He is much stronger than me even though he's only
16 [don't I just hate it!!].  His speciality is counters and with his
upper body strength and grip I always get turned by his hands more than
anything else.  When he has his grip his body is always at 90 degrees
to mine so I only have his RHS to look at (besides the mats, as he's
always pulling down).  Taniotoshi and Taitoshi fail miserably due to
the hand turns.  The closest I get is a sort of Yama arashi or
seiotoshi by means of my long leg getting over his knee and hopping in
(but this usually means I fall from a greater height :-)


Anyways, suggestions welcome...
   Dave Riches
   Email:  David.S.Riches@bnr.co.uk
   Smail:  BNR Europe Ltd, London Road,
           Harlow, Essex. CM17 9NA.  England
   Phone:  +44 (0)279-402496
   Fax:    +44 (0)279-451434
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts