HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jwh@citi.umich.edu (Jim Howe)
Subject: Re: Family leave farce (was a most pressing COncern)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 16:39:15 EDT
Organization: IFS Project, University of Michigan
Reply-To: jwh@citi.umich.edu

In article <1992Oct13.180436.15502@unislc.uucp>, das@unislc.uucp (David Shorten) writes:
|> Mark Wilson (mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM) wrote:
|> 
|> : As a citizen of this country you have a right to try and change the laws of
|> : this country.  As an employee you have a right to try and get your employer
|> : to change his family leave policy.  This breaks down when as an employee
|>                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^
|> : you use the laws of this country to force that employer to give you a
|> : family leave policy.
|> : 
|> : This may be legal, but it sure as hell ain't right.
|> : 
|> : 
|> Why does anything break down under this circumstance?  Looks to me like
|> a fine way of solving the problem.  As an employee, you are in a low-power
|> situation for purposes of bargaining.  As a citizen you are on more
|> equal footing with your boss.  Why not try to get it legislated?
|> 

And if your neighbor has something you want you are in a low-power
situation for the purposes of demanding that your neighbor give
that something to you.  As a citizen you are on a more 'equal'
footing.  Why not try to get it legislated?  A job is a creation
of a business.  As such it is the property of the business.  The
government has no more authority to make the job more
agreeable to you than it would to require that a person selling
a car make the deal more agreeable to you.


James W. Howe                  internet: jwh@citi.umich.edu
University of Michigan             uucp: uunet!mailrus!citi.umich.edu!jwh
Ann Arbor, MI   48103-4943         
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:51824 sci.environment:11973 talk.environment:4214
From: ceb@dbrus.Unify.Com (Caroline E. Bryan)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.elections,talk.abortion,junk
Subject: Re: And Hence Abortion is NOT Murder
Date: 10 Oct 92 00:40:25 GMT
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization

In article <1992Oct7.104147.12858@netcom.com> ray@netcom.com (Ray Fischer) writes:
>jrs@netcom.com (John Switzer) writes ...
>>If this bothers you, however, then chew on this for a moment - society is 
>>already allowing hundreds of murders, if not thousands, to take place by
>>allowing convicted murderers and other criminals to be paroled. Not all 
>>parolees do kill which is why parole is allowed to continue. 
>
>Indeed!  We should do all in our power to prevent all abortions AND
>murders!  Throw EVERYONE in jail!  Take away all the coat hangers,
>knives, pencils, guns, keys, and similarly nasty sharp and/or hard and
>dangerous objects!  Remember that, since most muders are committed by
>first-time offenders, EVERYONE is suspect!

Or do something faster, easier, cheaper, and no less legal!  Force all men
to have vasectomies!  If a rapist can't get a 12-year-old girl pregnant,
she doesn't have to be pressured to have/not have an abortion!  Of course,
the planet will get *real* peaceful in 80 years or so, but the problem is
certainly solved in the short term.


Carrie		ceb@rechenau.unify.com		x 6244  ----------------+
|  I don't belong to any organized political party:  I'm a Democrat.	|
|						-- Will Rogers		|
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.drugs,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.marrou,alt.politics.perot
From: PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu (David Veal)
Subject: Re: Media coverage for Marrou/Lord (call these #'s!)
Organization: The University of Tennessee, Knoxville
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 01:46:32 GMT

In article <7OCT199218280273@utarlg.uta.edu>
b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (Stephen Tice) writes:

>In article <BvpzrI.7nF@well.sf.ca.us>, rab@well.sf.ca.us (Bob Bickford) writes..
>>In article <5OCT199218410225@utarlg.uta.edu>,
>> b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (Stephen Tice) writes:
>>>In article <1992Oct5.200227.16334@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>,
>> smcguire@nyx.cs.du.edu (Scott McGuire) writes...
>>>>As to Perot doing so much better than the LP as a reason to cover him
>>>>and not the LP: Perot is doing this well because he has been covered.
>>>>How well would he be doing without media attention?
>>>
>>>Perot has been in the media longer than the LP's been around.
>>>
>>The earliest mention I can quickly find of Perot has a 1973 date on
>>it.  That's two years *after* the founding of the Libertarian Party.
>>Perhaps you can show us some evidence for your claim, such as dates of
>>other Perot media appearances before 1971.
>>
>>However, even if you can dredge one (or two or....) up, unless they
>>have to do with politics, campaigning for office, and related matters
>>then they kind of miss the point.  If you see what I mean.
>
>I take it you saw the post I made on Perot's bio being in
>Current Biography from 1971? If not, then the biblio they
>give is:
>
>	Fortune 78:168+ N '68
>	Look 34:28+ Mr 24 '70
>	NY Sunday News p136+ F 22 '70
>	NY Times p41+ N 28 '69
>	NY Times Mag p16+ F 28 '71
>	Nat Observer p22 S 14 '70
>	Newsweek 75:68+ Ap 13 '70
>	Who's Who in America, 1970-71
>
>By '70 his fortune had grown to a billion from $200,00 due to
>stock splits, he'd already been involved in the POW aid effort,
>and his philanthorpies were getting a lot of press.

     Is there some point to the money we're wasting here?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Veal     Division of Continuing Education Information Services Group
               University of Tennessee, Knoxville
               PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.elections,talk.abortion,alt.sex,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush,soc.singles,alt.politics.homosexuality,talk.bizarre
From: mbur@nyx.cs.du.edu (MAC)
Subject: Re: A Most Pressing COncern
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 12:37:20 GMT

In article <Bvsr2r.1qr@agora.rain.com> robart@agora.rain.com (Robert Barton) writes:
>In article <1avrpqINNsvg@bigboote.WPI.EDU> walkerr@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Robert A Walker) writes:
>>
>>>Orgasms, in the main, are messy things,
>>>and Really are not the sort of things
>>>that decent persons with good personal
>>>hygeine standards would wish to involve
>>>themselves in/with/towards.
>>
>>
>>	Sounds like this person can't get their rocks off to me.
>>Its only messy if you shoot somebody in the face or your so wet that
>>you flood your bedroom.
>>                                  
>>
>>
>>        
>
>
>  What does this have to do with Limbaugh?
>

Nothing.  I have no joke here, I just like saying "Orgasms are messy things"
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: gary@isis.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Subject: Re: Vote for Clinton!
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 05:29:50 GMT

el> Elizabeth G. Levy
gs> Gary Strand

gs> The bonus is that a Clinton presidency will make us fondly recall our cur-
    rent economic woes, as his policies will put the economy into a Carterish
    state. 

el> There's an amusing cartoon in the 9/21/92 issue of The New Republic:
    BUSH: I've pushed all the buttons and pulled all the levers.  When
          is the economy going to _improve_?
    MAN:  Currect forecast is early next year.
    BUSH imagines a newspaper headline: "Clinton Inaugurated Yesterday -- 
         Economy Improving Already"
    BUSH: NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO....

  Pro-Clinton folks can fantasize all they want about the economy improving
  under him, but I just don't see it. Japan and Germany aren't exactly in 
  great shape, Europe as a whole is re-thinking its plans, and Clintonian
  economic policies haven't been in vogue since his advisers were big in DC,
  circa late-1970s. A recipe for ever-lengthening ever-deepening recession,
  as I look at it. To use an old cliche, "To hurt the economy, elect a Re-
  publican, to destroy it, elect a Democrat."

  The best we can hope for is four more years of Bush-like misery.

--
Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF
From: mpolen@suntory.mti.sgi.com (Mike Polen)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: I'm surprised!
Date: 7 Oct 92 21:25:46 GMT
Reply-To: mpolen@suntory.mti.sgi.com (Mike Polen)
Organization: Mips Technologies, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: suntory.mti.sgi.com

|> Paul Smith) writes:
|> :Melanie Wertz) writes:
|> :>Your parents are physically abusive.
|> :>Your father IS the father of your child.
|> :
|> :I've been in this discussion on the net before, so I have to jump in...
|> :
|> :(not shouting, just don't know how to do italics in ascii :-)
|> :
|> :I DON'T CARE WHAT EXCEPTION SITUATIONS YOU COME WITH, YOU (and the STATE) 
|> :DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO UNDERMINE *MY* PARENTAL AUTHORITY. *PERIOD*.

Are you saying that if you beat and rape your daughter, the
community has no right to step in and protect her?  That
is wrong. *PERIOD*.

-- 
These opinions are usually my own, sometimes my dog's,
occasionaly my (grown) children's, never my employer's.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.theory
From: mpolen@suntory.mti.sgi.com (Mike Polen)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: BRAVE BILL's excellent (commie) Vacation-from-Viet-Nam...
Date: 8 Oct 92 15:22:54 GMT
Reply-To: mpolen@suntory.mti.sgi.com (Mike Polen)
Organization: Mips Technologies, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: suntory.mti.sgi.com

Stephen Tice) writes:

This is really good stuff Stephen.  You ought to send it to "National
Enquirer."  It doesn't meet their quality standards but it sure
meets their "try to create something out of nothing standards.
Please tell us about Elvis's new  home in arlington also.

|> Was Brave-Bill a closet commie sympathizer when he took his "trip"
|> to Oxford and beyond?
|> 
|> Who were his fellow-travellers, or did he take a few weeks in
|> Russia and Eastern Europe all-on-his-own? In the dead of winter?!
|> 
|> Are there chums or comrades from that time who can tell us
|> how he spent those frigid blizzard cold nights? And just what were 
|> the weather reports during his jaunt behind the curtain? And who 
|> else was out on the cold with him? ....Have they come in? 
|> 
|> Was he so worn out from organizing Viet Nam protests at Oxford
|> that he just had to get away for awhile?
|> 
|> And did Brave-Bill think about how this would reflect on his
|> future political career? Was a little behind-the-scenes help
|> worth the risk? Or was ideology the real reason?
|> 
|> While exploring Eastern Europe and Moscow did Brave-Bill think
|> about his peers and countrymen back in Viet Nam fighting and
|> dying? Did he shed a tear for others locked in POW camps or
|> Missing-In-Action while he walked through the frozen snows to
|> cross the barbed-wire and patrolled borders which locked so
|> many behind the Iron Curtain? How was he able to "scale The Wall?"
|> 
|> What were his thoughts about the experience? Did he write 
|> letters and school papers, and did he talk with others about
|> what he saw during that time? And will Brave-Bill share some
|> of it with us now?
|> 
|> Did he visit any state sponsored "educational" institutions?
|> 
|> How has Brave-Bill gotten along with Red-Ron Dellums over
|> the years?
|> 
|> Would Brave-Bill be as strong an advocate for Gorby and company
|> in a re-bid for Russian-Rule, as Chicken-George has been in 
|> supporting Red-China??
|> 
|> And can Chicken-Georges's golf games top Brave-Bill's scenic soviet
|> tour? 
|> 
|> ..... and so on and so on and so on, 
|> 
|> until Brave-Bill tells us all about his excellent adventures
|> while others fought in a war he took a vacation from.
|> 
|> 
|> -- Stephen Tice    
|> 
|> "Need to rest your voice Brave-Bill? Try a shot of Johnny Walker Red."

-- 
These opinions are usually my own, sometimes my dog's,
occasionaly my (grown) children's, never my employer's.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.elections
From: walker@superboy.jsc.nasa.gov (Doug Walker)
Subject: Re: If you don't want Perot:  Bend over to the Republocrats.
Reply-To: walker@superboy.jsc.nasa.gov
Organization: NASA Johnson Space Center
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:02:24 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.071103.26795@ke4zv.uucp>, gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct5.142128.26937@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> walker@superboy.jsc.nasa.gov writes:
|> >In article <VNCRBD9C@cc.swarthmore.edu>, mwertz1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Melanie Wertz) writes:
|> >|> Add to this list the fact that Perot is
|> >|> 
|> >|> - a person with a history of crushing anyone who dares to oppose him. 
|> >|> There's a reason why the police force is afraid to give his daughter a
|> >|> speeding ticket!
|> >|> 
|> >
|> >	What does this have to do with anything?  LBJ was this type
|> >	also.
|> 
|> That's certainly true, and we *really* need another LBJ, Vietnam is
|> getting a little uppity again.
|> 
|> Gary

Well, Gary, I certainly was not implying that we need another LBJ.  But
I will ask again: What does this have to do with anything?

Doug

Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.elections,talk.abortion,alt.sex
From: wdstarr@athena.mit.edu (William December Starr)
Subject: Re: Reagan/Clinton a tale of two govenors
Organization: Northeastern Law, Class of '93
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 01:30:39 GMT


In article <70976@hydra.gatech.EDU>, 
gt6367c@prism.gatech.EDU (DEAL, DOUGLAS WAYNE) said:

> ...Reagans best asset was not foreign policy.  Whether or not you
> agree with whatever economic policies that he pushed for, the most
> important thing Reagan did was make this country feel good again.
> In the post vietnam era, going into the early '80s, being an
> American was something one was not so happy to admit.  Our national
> pride and self confidence were non-existent.  Reagan changed that
> with the way he constantly talked to the American people to reasure
> them that everything was going to be O.K. and that we were the
> greatest nation in the world.  At the time, that was really what our
> country needed at that time.

If you say so... me, I think I prefer honesty from the men and women
who call themselves our leaders, no matter how much it may hurt.
Reagan (and you, apparently) believe in treating the American people
like children.  I'll admit that it's attractive (and seductive) to be
treated that way by a nice, warm, fuzzy Mommy or Daddy figure... in
fact, I'll even admit -- and this is just about the worst sin you're
_ever_ going to see me publicly confess to, folks -- I'll even admit
that I fell for it myself twelve long years ago.  I bought into the
"Anybody but Carter the Wimp -- we need a man who can make America
Stand Tall again!" garbage, and I actually voted for Reagan.  Ack.
All I can say today is that I hope that there's a statute of
limitations on mistakes like that.  Today, I'm an adult, whether you'd
know it from my postings or not, and I would rather hear hard truths
than be told comforting lies, evasions or mushy vaguenesses.

And if the end result of the people being told the truth is the
downfall of this nation, well, so be it.  Perhaps what rises in its
place will be a stronger edifice that has less need for rosy lies for
structural support.

-- William December Starr <wdstarr@athena.mit.edu>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: budd@playfair.Stanford.EDU (David Budd)
Subject: Re: Women as inventors
Organization: Stanford University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 19:52:11 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.101316.25454@leland.Stanford.EDU> farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf) writes:
>In article <1992Oct11.182411.24227@netcom.com> phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes:
>>Guess it must be a conspiracy by all those Dead White Male Historians,
>>huh?
>>
>>FemHistory -- like the doggie pooper scooper, an idea whose time
>>has come. May it go as quickly.
>>
>>Not that women scientists haven't gotten the shitty end of the stick
>>a lot -- look at Barbara McClintock. But sometimes they do get
>>honors -- look at Madame Curie.
>
>Let me see if I follow the way you're thinking.  You don't think there
>is a conspiracy or a way of thinking that discounts (perhaps even
>hides) the work women do, yet you do think that women scientists have
>"gotten the shitty end of the stick a lot"?  So, when women scientists
>get the shitty end of the stick a lot, it isn't because of sexism or
>misogyny, it's just that shit happens?
>




I doubt that anyone would argue that historically, women in the sciences
have largely been discouraged or belittled. But to claim that in this
day and age that the past accomplishments of women are denigrated is
absurd. Does the name Curie ring a bell? Has she been the victim of
some villainous plot? I don't think so.

Rather, I believe that many of the pc crowd are bending over backwards to 
include women and other underrepresented groups, often to the point of,
as you have done, elevating trivial accomplishments such as the invention
of the flat-bottomed paper bag.

So, the paranoia that suggests that there is some sinister conspiracy to hide 
the accomplishments of women is just smoke.
Follow Bill Clinton's example. Don't inhale.
From: nrc@cbnews.cb.att.com (N. Richard Caldwell)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Perot and Mortgage deduction
Date: 7 Oct 92 20:33:12 GMT
Organization: AT&T Network Systems  -  Columbus, Ohio

From article <2801308322@dwetzel.mis.stratus.com>, by usenet@transfer.stratus.com (Mr. Network News):
> I'm looking for info here.  I heard a passing comment made by some one on 
> a news-discussion panel about Perot's economic plan.  The commentator 
> implied that Perot's plan would remove the tax deduction for interest on 
> mortgage payments.
> 
> Any Perot supporters (or opposers) have any info on this?

Here is what Perot says about mortgage interest deductions in _United
We Stand_.

|                     STOP SUBSIDIZING THE RICH
| 
| Under current law the federal government allows homeowners to deduct 
| from their income taxes interest on mortgages up to one million dollars.
| Why should we subsidize interest on huge, expensive homes? I know people 
| who own two houses: one as their principal residence and another on the 
| beach. Because the mortgages on both total under one million dollars they 
| deduct every penny from their taxes. Why should we subsidize interest on 
| vacation homes?
| 
| The average mortgage in the United States is $104,000. I propose that we 
| limit deductions on interest to mortgages of $250,000 and that we eliminate 
| the special deduction for vacation homes.

This makes perfect sense to me.  In fact, when I read it, I was outraged 
that the government would allow these kinds of huge mortgage interest 
deductions to begin with.  I would go even further and place a cap on the 
total deductable interest on any single home.  The cap would be liberal 
but would prevent the infinite refinancing of homes to get deductions for
interest that is really being paid for luxury cars, boats etc.

If the panelist implied that Perot was suggesting that the interest 
deduction be eliminated for the average American then he was either 
misinformed or was distorting the facts.  


"Don't drive too slowly."                 Richard Caldwell
                                          AT&T Network Systems
                                          att!cbnews!nrc
                                          nrc@cbnews.att.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: pswanson@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Paul Swanson)
Subject: The 'Missing' Pages
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 21:57:47 GMT

In article <5907@news.duke.edu> eyc@acpub.duke.edu (EMIL CHUCK) writes:
>
>If it were politically right for Mr. Clinton to have gone to Moscow, why
>are there three (or however many) pages missing regarding passport
>documents? 

Let me answer this by excerpting two paragraphs from a New York Times
article today (Sat. Oct. 10)

	What happened was this, say several officials.  When news
	organizations sought Mr. Clinton's file under the Freedom of
	Information Act, a clerk in a records warehouse in suburban
	Maryland opened his files and discovered staple holes on copies
	of his passport applications and assumed it meant part of the
	file had been pilfered.

	With that, a State Department Inspector General summoned Federal
	agents.  They determined that the holes in the application forms
	were probably left when a photograph or check stapled to the
	document was removed during processing.

Case closed.

Paul.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: casseres@apple.com (David Casseres)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Theories on Columbus-bashing and Compassion Fascism
Date: 13 Oct 92 18:18:25 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <70871@hydra.gatech.EDU>, gt7994a@prism.gatech.EDU (ORMOND,SEAN
PATRICK) wrote:

> ...Now, you could argue that if
> your agenda is to change traditional views, then a logical first step
> would be to change your name - a name to which those views are attached.
> That's a rational argument, but I just can't say, "We're not Indians,
> we're Indigenous People!" without laughing.

Fine, but you have to realize that a lot of people can't hear your laughter
without thinking you're a racist boor.  Maybe you don't care if people
think you're a racist boor...

> I feel that the life I've come to know and love is clearly threatened.

Welcome to what we call The Human Condition.

> It's not SERIOUSLY threatened, but it's clearly under assault.  Not only
> by history revisionists, but by modern SOLUTIONS such as quota bills
> and Affirmative Action programs.

Funny.  What I feel threatened by is racism, militarism, the police state,
censorship, etc.  Oh well, I guess we all have our own priorities.

> I've always believed if you work hard and excel, you'll be justly rewarded.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!  You've always believed that was
*actually how things worked*????  The previous poster offered you a
"welcome to Planet Earth," but she was mistaken -- you're on some other
planet.

> The last two private companies I
> worked for engaged in BLATANT reverse discrimination, and yes, this
> bothers me.  It means that it doesn't matter if I graduate with a 4.0,
> high SATs, and strong recommendations - if I don't fit the current
> sex/race requirements, I don't get hired.

Actually you almost certainly do get hired before *most* of the
minority/disadvantaged candidates, and advance faster after you get hired,
and get laid off later.

> I know what you're going to
> say, and I would respond that two wrongs don't make a right.  I'm currently
> looking at an application for employment.  At the top it reads, "Affirmative
> Action Employer".  At the bottom it reads, "...does not discriminate in
> hiring...on the basis of race, color, creed, religion, sex...".  Does this
> not strike you as odd?

Everybody knows what it means.  Quit your bitching, it's unbecoming. 
There's nothing quite so nauseating as a white upper-middle-class male in
engineering school (I'm guessing about some of that, but I bet I'm right)
whining about competition from people who aren't white upper-middle-class
males.

--

David Casseres
Exclaimer: Wow!
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.elections