From: ali@sim1server.mentorg.com (Aliasgar Haveliwala)
Subject: Urdu newsgroup (From Rajiv Chakravarti)
Originator: ali@simserver1
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1992 23:32:44 GMT
Organization: Mentor Graphics Corporation
Keywords: WHY !!!! 
Followup-To: news.groups

From @mgc.mentorg.com:%ricevm1.rice.edu:rajiv@me.uta.edu Fri Oct  2 10:02:32 1992
Received: from wv.MENTORG.COM by em-wv03.MENTORG.COM (4.1/CF3.4)
	id AA22147; Fri, 2 Oct 92 10:02:32 PDT
Received: from mgc.mentorg.com by wv.MENTORG.COM (5.65c/CF3.4)
	id AA04908; Fri, 2 Oct 1992 10:02:31 -0700
Received: from ricevm1.rice.edu by mgc.mentorg.com with SMTP
	(16.6/15.5+MGC-TD 2.20) id AA27328; Fri, 2 Oct 92 10:02:26 -0700
Received: from me.uta.edu by ricevm1.rice.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP;
   Fri, 02 Oct 92 12:02:46 CDT
Received:  by me.uta.edu ( 5.52 (84)/25-eef)
	id AA20546; Fri, 2 Oct 92 11:57:45 CDT
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 11:57:45 CDT
From: Rajiv Chakravarti <rajiv@me.uta.edu>
Message-Id: <9210021657.AA20546@me.uta.edu>
To: ali
Status: RO

**********************************************************************
I am posting this on behalf of Rajiv Chakravarti simply because he
cannot access some groups on the net

Here it goes !!!!!
**********************************************************************

Hello Ali, 

	Please post this too to all the relevant newsgroups. Thanks.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
SUBJECT:  NEED FOR URDU POETRY GROUP ......
Hello netters,

	Firstly, the beauty of a poetic form of writing not only depends
upon the thoughts expressed, but also upon the way that the sentiments
or feelings or ideas are expressed.... The fact remains that the 
LANGUAGE used plays more than just a small and insignificant role 
in the effectiveness of the thought. As all know, the simple interchange
of words which basically mean the same when used alone cause a major 
change in the meaning of the poetry. Urdu , as a language is one of the
most beautiful languages that I have heard , and I'm sure that a lot of 
people out there will agree with me. The fact that attracted me to the
language (it is not my native tongue) is the richness of its vocabulary,
the culture and background associated with it, and the impact of a single
word on the mind, which causes a tremendous flow of thoughts and pictures
that cannot be said in any other language like English, for instance. 
I have come across several words in Urdu (ex naaz, for one) which carry
a whole background with them, and a full explanation of which would take
a lengthy description in any other language. The Urdu language , which
is an amalgam of several languages such as Hindi, Farsi, Arabic, Turkish,
and others has , in my opinion taken the very best from all of the above
languages, and hence posseses the beauty of all of them .....
	The point trying to be made here is that any translation from the
original language to another not only is extremely difficult (especially
with languages like Urdu, where the same word could mean more than one
thing in the same sentence), but also loses impact on reading. The beauty
of the language is preserved only when it is read in it's true form. 
Please note that I am in no way saying that a translation cannot be 
posted in the rec.arts.poems group, but I would be inclined to think that 
at this point, such an attempt would not be totally appreciated by readers in
that group. Once more, I re-iterate that a good deal of the culture
involved in the poem has to be known in order to understand the poetry. 

(For those of you who still say that a poem should be posted on the 
rec.arts.poems group, I would be MORE THAN GLAD to provide a ghazal in Urdu
along with a translation of verse with it.......)


	Secondly, as a separate group for Urdu poetry, the persons
intereted solely in this special hobby would be more involved and
would actively participate in contributions, etc. I'm almost sure that
the huge volumes of other subjects in the existing "sci/p" groups 
discourages a few people from subscribing and/or contributing....

	Thirdly (and finally, for now) the formation of the Urdu poetry
group would certainly decrease the volume of posts to the sci/scp
groups , and would decrease the time for people scanning through articles
they would not want to read.. (ex. those who are'nt all that interested 
in poetry would not have to see the articles at all). Only those who are
truly interested would subscribe to the "shairee" group.... This also
applies to the posts in rec.arts.poems. People with a special interest
in Urdu poetry only rather have a specialized newsgroup......

In conclusion, I would like to remark that there are quite a few
ghazal lovers out there and would be interested in this endeavour. The
above points made are solely my own , and are not meant to cause any
trouble or to instigate a clash. Rebuttals, critiques on any point are
more than welcome. 

Thanks for your time. Regards.
Rajiv Chakravarti
rajiv@me.uta.edu

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for posting this on my behalf, Ali.
Regards,
Rajiv.