From: bell-peter@yale.edu (Peter Bell)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: Force-feeding info wanted
Date: 12 Dec 1992 11:25:09 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu
Summary: learn these techniques by *seeing* not reading, IMHO

In article <19878@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> nathan@charles.ucdavis.edu (Nathan Rollins) writes:
>
> Hi there, here's me back with more questions; this time, on
>force-feeding. The animal in question is a baby corn snake of about
>pencil-thickness at the widest point, who has been eating well until
>recently, then she shed, ate once, and has not eaten since (about a week now).

Force feeding is a *last ditch* move.  If she goes a month or two without
eating, force feeding would be in order.  I think after a week, she might
just not feel like eating....  Let her be, keep her warm, offer her food 
again in a few days.  She won't start starving to death for quite a while.
I have had hatchling garter snakes turn down food for 4 weeks plus, then
start eating.  Hatchling garter snakes are about 8 inches long, and 
*tiny*.  I was tempted to force feed, but the problem is that it is 
very easy to break teeth off when doing this, allowing an opportunity for 
mouthrot, which will only make things worse, and tubing an animal (see below)
that small seemed too risky.

> I've tried all the usual tricks to get her to eat (she used to eat every day
>or every other day at least). I've tried dead, live, washed, stunned,

I'm impressed she used to eat that often.  Still, though, I think a week will
be ok....

> How long should I let her go without eating before being desperate enough 
>to force-feed her? She's healthy looking enough now, but baby corns always
>look so thin...
> Should I in no way attempt this and instead pay $40.00 a shot to have our 
>herp vet force-feed her? 

If she goes a longer time without eating, adn begins actually losing weight, 
you might go to a local herp society and see if they have anyone who will
show you what to do.  I would think that there would be a local herp
society in Davis.

> How do you force-feed something that tiny?? She's just a hatchling.. I've
>got the McEachern (sp?) corn snake book, but if anyone has any info on how
>to hold them, get their mouths open, lube pinkies, anything... mail or posting
>would be greatly appreciated.

when I had a snake who would not eat, a 4 foot boa who had been quite sick,
my vet cautioned me against trying to force feed mice, for the reasons of 
the risk of breaking jaw bones and breaking off teeth.

What he had me do, and what you could do, was to get a syringe and mount 
a thin piece of tubing on it, with a hole cut in the side close to the end (to
avoid spraying food in at high velocity).  He had me soak dog kibble in water
1:1 and then blend it.  Apparently, kibble is actually lower in grain content
than is canned dog food.  I then filled the syringe with dog food, and then 
tube fed the snake a few times.  Getting a tube in a snake is less challenging
than getting a mouse in.  It is important to do this gently, and in moderation,
to avoid inflating your snake.  You might want to eyeball a pinky and guess 
how much volume one displaces--I would guess 2 ml or so.

You could, I suppose, put pinkies in a blender and use that paste.  You might
want to gut them first, to avoid having a really disgusting mess in your 
blender, and have just a disgusting mess.  

I would recommend having someone who has done it before show you how to force 
things into a snake's mouth.  It is tricky enough that written instructions 
might look like they were sufficient, but IMHO would not be.  If it means 
paying 40 bucks to have a vet show you how to do it, well, make it clear 
that you want to learn to take better care of your animal, and you are 
paying for a lesson from a pro as well as a treatment.  Most vets respond 
positively to this approach.  If yours doesn't, get a different vet!

Also, check your animal carefully (gently) for suspicious lumps in her GI 
tract.  She may have some sort of blockage, and that may make her less 
excited about eating.  If you find something weird which does not move down 
the GI tract after she shits,  take her to a vet and 
have it checked out--even just food sitting without moving can cause a nasty,
even lethal, infection....

> Many thanks in advance.. 
>
> Otter not Nathan

Sorry if I have seemed a bit preachy about seeing the force feeding firsthand,
but it is, IMHO, just about the most risky of the herp husbandry techniques,
outside of heating the cage correctly.

Peter
bell@minerva.cis.yale.edu