From: sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani)
Subject: Re: SALMAN RUSHDIE
Summary: Bare-chested females, GnR, chubiness ?
Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept.
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 19:35:56 GMT

In article <BuIuvC.7Dt@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v5086u6r@ubvmsc.cc.buffalo.edu (Naveed S Memon) writes:
> In article <1992Sep13.023411.11312@sol.cs.wmich.edu>, sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani) writes...
> >In article <BuHrCt.Gnv@acsu.buffalo.edu>, memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon) writes:
> > 
> >While we are on strange topics:
> > 
> > I went to guns & roses concert recently. It is a joint metallica, GNR, Faith No More
> >concert. The crowd was tough, as expected, but nothing serious happened until 
> >intermission between Metallica and GNR. During this period, the camera-person will
> >focus the camera on a female and crowd will encourage her to bare her chest. If she
> >would refuse, they would BO her. I was with my girl friend and she was very deeply
> >offended by this, so was I. I looked around to see exactly, who was having fun with
> >this. I saw that most females were looking very angry with all this going ons. 
> >Obviously the camera-person kept the camera to only the front rows, where all the
> >groupies are, and they were sure of some cooperation. 
> > 
> >If females were offended, why didnt they say anything ? All me and my girlfriend did
> >was not to participate in the process, i.e; look away. But that is silent protest.
> > 
> >This went on for some 15-20 minutes.
> > 
> >BTW, if some SCPians have been to New Orleans, during Madigras, similar things happen there.
> >But in that case, females bare their chests, if you throw them beads. Most of the females
> >appear to be from middle class families and willingly participate in the process. Although
> >some males also bare themselves there. That is a wild place.
> > 
> >I went with some university professors and these (usually very respectable) folks were
> >throwing beads to females and urging them on. It is interesting ti see people with
> >their guard down.
> > 
> >Just thought that I spice up the SCP, with bare-chest female stories.
> > 
> >BTW, I have no objection to bare-chested females (I support equal rights for males
> >and females for clothing restrictions), but I do object to females bare-chested
> >under crowd pressure. In addition, no male was asked to bare his genitals/chest
> >or anything in that concert. If for equality they asked both females and males,
> >then perhaps it would be okay (logically speaking). Although I am kind a conservative
> >person and prefer that people keep private things to themselves.
> > 
> > 
> >The older and in-a-stable-relationship Naveed
> > 
> >PS: As far as the concert goes, Metallica was pretty bad, GNR was good, two thumbs up.
> > November Rain was played for a long time, with lots of improv, etc. Thay played all
> > their good songs.
> 
> Naveed Bhai, you went to a Guns N Roses concert and you were actually expecting
> social "correctness"? :)  Actually I have hated this group eversince I read the
> following lyrics in their debut album, btw I have gone through these lines 
> before on s.c.p, and alt.rocknroll, they lines were
> 
> "you faggots and foreigners, you come to this country and spread the f'ing
> disease?".  These lines appeared in the Rollong Stones in 87 when GnR hit the
> 13 year old ninja-turtles for the first time. Axl Rose at that time defended
> his sentiments towards "Pakis and Iranians working at 7-11s", these days I have
> heard that he says that he was too young at the time. Earlier this year, the
> ex-homophobe headlined the Freddy Mercury tribute/charity concert at Wembley.
> For me, political correctness of a band is important although a dear friend,
> who read the Axl interview after I mailed it to him, asked me to listen to 
> the music and stop thinking too much, but I always wonder if you can separate
> the artist from his ideas. If you want to check out the GnR song in question, it
> is called "One in a million". Actually GnR fans[the whites mainly, have yet to
> see a black man wearing a GnR Tshirt] give me the creeps :) but ofcourse I 
> cannot picture you with a tattoed serpent on your chubby arm saying VLSI sucks!
> :)
> 
> Actually I agree about nudity. A few girls from Rochester and Buffalo protested
> these anti-nudity laws at the 4th of July holiday, they claimed that it was their
> right to go bare chested if the men did so too. So they stood at the
> Peace Bridge[that connects US-Canada] bare chested as a protest. A PSA picnic
> was immediately rescheduled to the 4th. :)
> 
> 
> The younger and about-to-get-into-a-stable-relationship Naveed

I reason I went to GnR concernt was to experience the Headbanger type concert. I wanted
to see that side of humans. I got the experience no doubt. 

Regarding Axl's remarks about foriegners etc, I would say that in the concert
he was very well behaved. He did a very good job. 
I believes his latest albums do not contain any socially incorrect material. 
Maybe he needs a second chance. After all, some of us also made pretty
drastic statements about non-pakistanis, non-muslims, etc, in our earlier years. 

I have heard "one in a million", and do agree with you that we cannot separate
music from the artist. The artist must bear all responsibility for all his/her
music.  

You use of word 'hate` for GnR is too strong for me. I would simply say that 
I have been cautiously optimistic that Axl will grow-up. I actually do not
to hate anyone, if possible.

Regarding bare-chest laws, I would like to see, males opinion on laws require
them to wear a shirt at all times in public.  I think nudity laws are completly
hypocritical. Most of my european friends tell me that the  americans are 
'hung-up' on females breasts, that is no big deal in europe. Actually, I wonder,
why is that is the case ?

any opinions ?

Actually, watching european movies, I have noticed that sometimes they show
full nudity for men also, without making a big deal about it. I remember in
'room with a view', there was a scene like that. 

Regarding nudity in Pakistan, once I went to visit my brother in Sargodha Air Force
base. That day, they had arranged for all the families to see a family-type movie.
I also went along, not knowing the evil plan of the cadets. Smewhere in the
middle of the movie, the 'tota's' started. (for less street-wise folks, a tota is
excerpt from a X-rated movie). It turned out that cadets had planned to embarras
their officers infront of their families. I worked very well. Nobody moved! All
the officers sat their very quietly and did not even say anything afterwards. The
intrupption lasted for some 30 seconds. Cadets had a great laugh.

In another movie (punjabi movie), my brother request the owner to play the key songs
of the movie (with almost nude females) again during the break. To my surprise, they
did and lot of peole started dancing on the stage. The mood was no differnt than the
GnR concert.
 
Cadets know how to have fun (I you want to call it fun). BTW, my brother is now
a respectable Squadron Leader and would not admit to any wrong-doing :-).

regards,

The older and supporter-of-equality-in-bare-chest-laws Naveed

PS: It may not be bad idea to get a t-shirt saying

              VLSI SUCKS

      the blood of those who work on it.*

* Ofcourse this is very small letters.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan