Newsgroups: alt.dads-rights
Subject: Re: Forced Fatherhood Executive Summary
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Date: 4 Oct 92 10:11:00 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <16650015@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com>, larryf@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Larry Ferreira) writes:
> In alt.dads-rights, bglazier@buffalo.asd.sgi.com (Bill Glazier) writes:
> 
>>  In article <16650014@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com>, larryf@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Larry |> 
> 
> 
>>  >If a man has been deceived into thinking birth control is being
>>  |> used, when in fact it is not, and this is a willful act, why do you insist
>>  |> on making the man pay for the consequences?  By doing that you take away
>>  |> the responsibility on the part of the female for the consequence on her
>>  |> part.
> 
>>  You must also believe that a man should have the right to NOT support a child
>>  he fathered, if he chooses not to be a Father.  If so, what about the case
> 
> Your assumption is incorrect.  What I am supporting is equal responsibility.
> 
>>  . . .                                               Do you still feel the man
>>  should have the right to require the woman to terminate the pregnancy (or
>>  financially support the result of a man's lie for the rest of her life if she
>>  is morally against abortion or adoption)?  
>    
> I never said the woman should be forced to terminate a pregnancy.  (Personally
> I am _very strongly_ against abortion as a means for birth control.)
> 

So, you are AGAINST abortion, yet you want to terminate parential rights?
Ever heard, ' you play, you pay'?

>>  |> 
>>  |> If a woman was made to be more responsibile, perhaps more woman would
>>  |> say no to casual sex, and perhaps the unwanted birth rate would go down.
>>  |> I see this as a very positive outcome to the parental choice argument.
> 
>>  You are incredible!  Perhaps if men weren't so prone to hit on 
>>  vulnerable women - via date rape, forced sex and the like, we wouldn't be
>>  in the terrible situation we are in now. Men are the guilty party 9 out of 
>>  10 times.  Your solution throws the baby out with the bath water.  
> 
>>  I consider myself a normal male. I, for one, have never had a woman hold a 
>>  gun to my head and demand we have unprotected sex (as much as I may fantasize
>>  about it 8*>).  I agree, both men and women should be responsible for 
>>  themselves.  But anyone who assumes everyone around them is acting intelligently
>>  deserves the unfortunate consequences.
> 
> We're not talking about forced sex, rape, etc.  What we are talking about
> are men who have made it clear that they do not want to become a parent,

So, do something about it.  Get a vasectomy!

> where the woman allows herself to conceive because she does want to be
> a parent. 

This rates right up there with the remark, 'getting herself pregnant'!
  
> Then goes to court in order to make the man support something
> he never wanted.  That's like saying because I looked at a new car in a
> show room, I now must take it and make payments on it.  Sounds pretty
> stupid to me!  (I don't me to be degrading with my example of equating
> cars to people.  But the analogy make about as much sense to me as making
> someone pay to support a child that he clearly never wanted.)
> 

All you did was LOOK at the woman?  Wow, immaculate conception!  I thought
that only happened once, 2000 years ago!

> The question I have, does the argument hold in reverse.  If a woman has
> made it clear that she doesn't want a child and ... etc.  Does the man
> get to have the child?  Best to wait till after  marriage before sex,
> could save a lot of problems, (I speak from experience)!
> 
> Larry Ferreira

Yep, you got the right idea.  Wait until you are married or else take measures
to make sure you don't conceive a child.  The thing you are ignoring is that
the State considers a consenting adult who causes conception of a child to
have knowingly participated in an activity that is a risky one.  In other
words, if you take a gun and shoot it into a crowd, and kill someone, you
can't whine that you thought no one would get hurt.  The main natural
consequence of having sex with someone is conception of a child.  Anyone who
thinks that isn't going to happen if all possible protection is omitted is
stupid.  The State is then required to provide for that child.  If there
are responsible adults are available to pay for expenses, then the rest of
the community is not going to have to pay.  
I may sound harsh on this but I have been getting whiny letters from my
foster son's father, who thinks I am profiting from caring for his son.
I AM NOT!  His child support payments are less than many of the ones quoted
in this group.

Sue
Newsgroups: alt.dads-rights