From: hz225wu@unidui.uni-duisburg.de (Micaela Pantke)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: The Holly & The Ivy, etc.
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Date: 24 Dec 1992 09:48:40 +0100
Organization: University of Duisburg
Reply-To: hz225wu@unidui.UUCP (Micaela "Stayka" Pantke)
NNTP-Posting-Host: unidui.uni-duisburg.de

Re: A Darkover type circle


Hi there - Stayka is here!

ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:

BA> I divide magic into four major Realms (each of which has multiple
BA> divisions and subdivisions): Mentalism, Naturalism, Spiritualism, and
BA> Vitalism.  The Darkover stuff is one type of Mentalism.  Now, someone
BA> like my student, who is gifted with Naturalist talents, would not pick
BA> up anything from your workings; however, give some trees to talk to, 
BA> and she'll do just fine.  On the other hand, the Mentalists aren't 
BA> likely to be able to talk to her trees, no matter how telepathic they 
BA> are. Different gifts, all valuable for their own purposes. 

I think your view of the four magic realms really  may explain how 
several people relate to these 'energies'. I just finished a phone-talk
with a guy who feels closely related to dods and wolves and who is 
deeply depressed because of not being able to feel any of the energies 
with which I'm working. When I quoted your ideas to him he really seemed
to light up. Thanks for your inspiration on this item, for I must admit
to my shame that I never thought about it thoroughly. 

By the way - what would you put in the category of vitalism? I'm not
quite sure how you would define that. Maybe you could post an overview
about how you would divide the kinds of magick. I'd be very interested.

BA> The point I'm trying to make is that *everyone* has magic as a
BA> birthright-- all people have some magical talents--but that people 
BA> have diverse enough talents that people cannot always perceive the 
BA> same magics that many others perceive. 

I absolutely do concur with you that EVERYBODY has magic talent. I
always assumed it was just to deeply buried when someone was mind-deaf.
But I like your view much better than mine, I think I might adopt it
if you don't mind... :-)

From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)

CM> There are lots of folks out there who use some kind of focus for 
CM> their rituals and magicks.  What Stayka and family have done is this.  
CM> I can't say for sure that any crystals actually amplify psychic 
CM> energy.  

So far we have worked with crystals, we could use them as 'source' of 
energy (rose quartz, rock quartz and stones we tried and considered
'warm' as we conceived them). I assume it could be that we used them as
a kind of relais between the 'earth energy' and our circle. ('Earth
energy' being a very volatile description of the powers we raised. 
Cajhain and Kira used to call them like that, although I usually prefer 
to think of them as the energies of the universe or all-that-is around 
us.)

I don't think the crystals really amplified our energies - that's
something *WE* did when we were working in the circle, for we found out
that psychic powers seem not only to sum up, but multiply or more, when
more people work in one circle.  Please note that I always try to sound
relative when I talk of those 'things', for I can only speak of the
occurrences as *I FELT* them, as there are no valid kinds of measuring
that I know. (I'm always a little bit irritated when I'm reading that
there are people who think that their findings are the absolute truth,
and nothing else is valid next to them. Everything concerning psychic 
energies is very subjective IN MY OPINION! And that's NOT because I'm 
trying to avoid a clear attitude, it's just that I don't want to inva-
lidate any others' opinions through my remarks. For *ME* the things that 
I experienced were very real, and I certainly would dispute anyone who
said that I imagined all the things that I encountered. But I also do
acknowledge that OTHER people may have had OTHER experiences.) 

CM> I'd love to hear more of anyone's experiences with this sort of 
CM> thing. I have always believed in the powers of mind, telepathy, 
CM> telekinesis, precognition, empathy, etc.  

Our circle tried out all of the items you mentioned. Our results:
 
TELEPATHY: Works in a limited way. We are able to receive IMAGES, but
not sentences, words etc. 

EMPATHY: *THAT*'s our main domain. Perhaps because the feelings are 
closely related to the aura which we perceive very clearly? (Working
hypothesis, nothing confirmed...)

TELEKINESIS: Complete failure. None of our circle managed anything on
that area. 

PRECOGNITION: Cajhain seems to have second sight, although mainly
concerning her family (deaths, illnesses, and happenings that directly
concern her), and I am closely related to major shifts within the earth
(I'm feeling major earth quakes or volcanic eruptions.  When I'm awaking
in the morning after such an event I'm bathed in sweat and have
aftereffects of something like a trauma.  Several times I went to my mom
who is awake earlier than me and asked her: "So, where did the earth
quake this night?" And she looked at me like the eight wonder of the
world and told me...  Surprisingly it doesn't matter how far it's away,
but it has to have a certain strength, it seems.  When we had an
earthquake last year, I was awake several minutes before, and I felt a
severe kind of real terror that abruptly went away when the earthquake
started - it may have been because the stress in the ground has been
released or so.).  About Kira I'm not quite sure at the moment, but she
didn't seem to have perceptable talents of precognition. 

SPIRITISM: We experimented on invoking 'ghosts'. Complete failure. 

SUGGESTION/HYPNOSIS: No success we would have been aware of.

TALKING WITH TREES: Cajhain is very good at it.  Kira and I feel a kind
of energy, but that's all (Yet I think Kira relates better to trees / 
nature than I do.)

DIVINATION: There are interesting differences.  Cajhain works best with
a Tarot, Rin-Go is an expert in Runes, just like Shavana (who doesn't 
like Tarot because she feels it to be dead).  Kira relates best to 
Tarot, while I'm quite good in Tarot and Astrology, although I don't 
feel comfortable with Runes. I also tried a crystal ball - without any
success. 

ASTRAL PROJECTION: Didn't work (yet). But we're still trying!

CM> I would be very interested in working with a circle in the
CM> Darkover fashion in order to discover a greater control of these 
CM> powers, and then teach others to use them. 

It really is a benefit being able to control those 'powers', although
for us it was a damned hard way. When we started, we played with powers
we hadn't understood in the slightest. We went through all possible
states of mind you could imagine, and two of our circle even tried
suicide when the pressure of powers not understood became to strong. 

I strongly have to warn everybody to experiment as wildly as we have
done in the beginning.  But I also think that my warning is completely
futile (We also wouldn't have listened to anyone when we started).  Now
several years have gone by, and we are wiser (?), but on the other hand
I think all those horrible experiences (nowadays we know that we indeed
did encounter our worst fears and the horrors that were buried deep
within our minds) lead us to a very better understanding of ourselves. 

Please don't accuse me of being pathetic, I know that I am (at least
a little bit) - but I don't know how to say what I have to say in 
another way. In the end everybody HAS to master hirself, and of course
that is no pleasant endeavour.  

CM> And it all can be linked *directly* to natural physics.  Start with 
CM> GUT and work outward from there.  Magick, for me, is the creation and
CM> propagation of energy.  In this case, the energy is created and
CM> propagated by the human mind. 

I agree, although I (i.e.\ our circle) have found out that it is a very
painful path. (That's why I'm quite certain - well, at least I HOPE SO -
that everybody who achieves mastery about hir powers is at least a little
bit wiser than to abuse hir powers... [And that from someone who certain-
ly has not achieved complete mastery yet. Although there are lots of
people who might scorn me for that - I became more and more humble in 
view of the extent of the task still lying before me.]) 

CM> However, if anyone thinks that we need to use something articial as a
CM> stimulant, then we might want to look at drugs in the same sense that
CM> MZB did with the pollen of the Starflower.  This would be easier to do
CM> technically than making some kind of chip.  Start with peyote, for
CM> example, and work out from there.  This also has less of an
CM> environmental impact. 

Hm. I must say I have much too much respect (if not fear) concerning
drugs. Admittedly I like a glass of wine - but I'm too afraid to try
out other drugs. Has anybody else experiences in this matter? I am
curious to hear about it. 

(BTW - thanx for you considering me friend, Corun. - Maybe we could try
 to make a 'contact' overseas... I must admit that I haven't tried to
 contact anyone I haven't worked with in a circle yet - but I think it 
 might be worth a try. With the sisters from the circle it's certainly 
 easier because we know the 'frequency' (or whatever) each of us is 
 working on. As we found out - people working in a Circle are closer
 than blood relatives...) 

markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:

mb> Yup. Since you're into Darkover, remember the psiwars. Why do you 
mb> think my Famous Secret Theory(tm) is secret? 

I always try to believe that mankind might be reasonable and able to
learn. Am I a hopeless/ful idealist?! Sigh. (Of course I do watch the
news on TV...)

mb> I assume that upper-case M-mark is me. Thanks, and to you the same.

I did mean you. Sorry about the capital letter. I promise that I'll try
to learn...

   Walk in the light!
                       Stayka deyAvemta

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Micaela "Stayka" Pantke  | "It is ill to keep a dragon chained to
Westhoffstrasse 111      |  roast your meat."
W-4200 Oberhausen 11     |        (Marion Zimmer Bradley)
Germany                  | 
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Newsgroups: alt.pagan