From: alderson@cisco.com (Rich Alderson)
Subject: Re: Language Origins
Originator: alderson@leland.Stanford.EDU
Reply-To: alderson@cisco.com (Rich Alderson)
Organization: Cisco Systems (MIS)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 15:53:01 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.171733.13719@leland.Stanford.EDU>, jchokey@leland (James Alexander Chokey) writes:
>In article <cos.727820671@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu> cos@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Ofer Inbar) writes:
>>craig@b11.b11.ingr.com (Craig Presson) writes:

>>>OTOH, the few words of the speech of the Rohirrim in LOTR that are not
>>>translated into the Westron are perfectly good Anglo-Saxon (OTTOMH:
>>>"_Westhu Theoden hal_!" (Hale be thou, Theoden ~ Hail, Theoden)).  The
>>>proper names of course are not attested AS names, but have a distinct AS
>>>flavor.
>>
>>I recall reading Tolkien's explanation somewhere that the Anglo-Saxon was
>>*not* the actual language of Rohan, but rather a translation of it.  In the
>>same way, Westron is not actually English, but is translated into English in
>>the books so that we can understand them.  Tolkien decided that since the
>>relationship between Westron and the language of Rohan in their world was
>>equivalent to the relationship between English and Anglo-Saxon in ours (one
>>having developed partly from the other), since he translated Westron to
>>English, he would translate Rohan to Anglo-Saxon for us readers.
>
>Yes, that was Tolkien's explanation for his use of Anglo-Saxon.  As I've said
>before, however, it strikes me as a rather "side-stepping" explanation,
>considering how much like the Anglo-Saxons (as described in literature in any
>case) the Rohirrim actually are.  The same might be said about the various
>modern English dialects Tolkien uses for "translations" of Westron elsewhere.
>Is it mere convenience of translation that Tolkien has the hobbits, who in
>many ways are a romanticized vision of the English yeomanry, speak a 19th
>century rural dialect, or might there not be something more to it?
>Considering, furthermore, that Tolkien never actually "invented" a unique
>language for the Rohirrim or of Westron in the same way that he invented his
>Elvish languages, I think we have to take this comment about "translation"
>with a serious grain of salt.

Why not instead take the "translator's explanation" as part and parcel of the
story?  Not Tolkien speaking as writer, but his character, curiously also named
Tolkien, speaking as translator?

In one sense of course, you are right:  He did not bother to create a language
for the Rohirrim (who, btw, do *not* match descritions of the Angles, Saxons,
Jutes, or Danes in their regard for horses), but instead, when they cropped up
in the course of creating the story, made the "translator's" decision.

That does *not* mean that he intended them to be other than transplanted
Northerners in the south in the Thrid Age.

And hobbitry are much more thoroughly Edwardian than Victorian, don't you
think?  That is, it requires an acquaintance with the down side of mechaniza-
tion before the quaint water-driven mill is preferred to the modern one.
-- 
Rich Alderson   'I wish life was not so short,' he thought.  'Languages take
                such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about.'
                                                        --J. R. R. Tolkien,
alderson@leland.stanford.edu                              _The Lost Road_