HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sabaker@icaen.uiowa.edu (Sarah Anne Baker)
Subject: Re: fencing or fighting?
Organization: Iowa Computer Aided Engineering Network, University of Iowa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:06:24 GMT

ctrbdo@iapa.uucp%mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu (bryan d oakley) writes:

>I am very disappointed by what I've seen in this newsgroup so far. 

Then read elsewhere or start bringing up new topics to discuss.

>I was looking forward to discussions on competitive fencing, but a
>mental guesstimate says the discussions are 50/50 fencing vs.
>broadsword fighting.

Then discuss competitive fencing.  Why are you worried about the percentages?


>Now, before the flames begin, I have nothing against the SCA.  Well,
>maybe I do.  Just kidding ... some of my best friends belong to
>SCA.  Really...  ;-)

Flame. Flame. I'm not SCA, but I respect their ideals and efforts.

>I missed the first few days of the newsgroup, I think, so I'm not sure
>of what the charter is here.  So as not to go on and on about my
>personal preferences, perhaps I can spark some discussion on what this
>newsgroup is all about.

>How 'bout (pun intended) a straw poll:  
>    a) How many competitive fencers don't want to see SCA related
>       discussions, 

>    b) How many SCA'ists don't want to see competitive fencing related
>       discussion, 

>    c) how many want both to continue in the same group.

>    d) how many don't give a flip...

Answers, I WANT TO SEE, (not app), YES, (not app).

Yes, SCA swordfighting is fencing.  Any work with a blade no
matter what the weight is still a blade and an opponent.  
The similarities are more numerous than you realize, but I haven't
seen any discussion on it lately, but feel free to bring it up.

 The origination of this group was to include all "swordfighting"
This was not to be exclusively USFA fencing.  It's in the charter.
It's just that the name of the group was a little misleading, but 
it was intended to include all fencing styles.  Nor has it only had
SCA and USFA, there has also been discussion on Oriental fencing
styles, Kendo and others.

 Personally I like to the mix. I like to hear what's going on
and certainly there's not enough traffic to warrant a breakdown.

Hush.  If you are disappointed, you don't have to read the group. 
If you want to discuss the USFA competitive aspect then do so, but there's no
reason they can't be threads on the same topic.


-)--------- Sarah Baker --------(-  (Univ. OF Iowa Fencing Club)
From: randerson@cudnvr.denver.colorado.edu (Richard Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Re: Cleaning the uncleanable:
Date: 11 Dec 92 16:49:17 GMT

In article <10DEC199216242161@rosie.uh.edu>, mece25r@rosie.uh.edu (Palit, Suman) writes:
> 
> Anybody out there know how to clean leather gloves, particularly the really
> soft foil varieties? How about lames? I've tried cleaning mine with a soft
> cloth and the mildest dishwashing soap around, then drying it in the sun on
> a deck-chair or something flat. Doesn't work for the really big stains, though
> 
> Suman

I don't know about cleaning them up after the fact, but one trick I learned
that helped keep the lames clean and useful a lot longer was to take it into
the shower with you after a meet and rinse it out immediatly. Most of the
stains on lames are oxidation mediated by the salt in your sweat, so washing
away the salt, and then just letting the water dry normally helps a lot.

Maybe you could try washing it with a mild solution of some chemical reducer?
That would take a better chmist than I to answer for sure however.

Eric
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: amunn@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (Alan Munn)
Subject: Re: A fencing life (was Re: Drop Outs)
Keywords: fencers
Organization: University of North Carolina
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:37:27 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.005312.21145@rtsg.mot.com> svoboda@rtsg.mot.com (David Svoboda) writes:


>And has anyone ever found themselves:
>
>   . Playing badminton, and *lunging* at the shuttlecock?
>
>   . Dancing, and looking down to find their feet in a nice en-guard stance?
>
>   . Their date's feet?
>

Is there any other way?

I'm told that when I'm teaching and writing on the blackboard I'm
always in a nice en garde position.

>   . Accidentally holding out their *left* hand to shake?

Being a lefty I've never had trouble with that.

>
>(Any more? :)
>		Dave Svoboda


Alan
-- 
Alan Munn                     <amunn@gibbs.oit.unc.edu>
Dept. of Linguistics, CB# 3155 UNC Chapel Hill NC 27599
From: markk@pongo.West.Sun.COM (Mark Allen Kampe)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Re: Duelling vs. "Swordfighting" (was: french grips)
Date: 18 Dec 1992 03:31:27 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: markk@pongo.West.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: pongo.west.sun.com

In article 1gqs9sINN4e2@smurf.sti.com, alaric@sti.com (Alaric Tekiahyn) writes:
>
>The rationale behind this particular ban was that many of those who
>could afford them were beginning to carry rapiers as much as five feet
>long.  Naturally, with a two-foot advantage over less wealthy opponents,
>they would often enter into duels for the slightest of excuses, in the
>sure knowledge that they could probably skewer their opponent before
 
I once read a delightful historical note on this ban (I believe it was
in "The Construction Decoration and Use of Arms and Armour in all Times
and all Countries".

In Elizabethan Londan they had so much trouble with rapiers and fashion
abuse that they passed a law that upon entering the city, anyone whose
sword was more than three feet long would have it broken to three feet
and anyone whose sleeve lace was more than three feet long would have
it cut off to three feet.



Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: bud@sq.sq.com (Bud Greasley)
Subject: Re: :ping-pong:
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, Canada
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 21:09:35 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.175342.24303@eos.arc.nasa.gov> kyrsten@eos.arc.nasa.gov
(Kyrsten Swazey) writes:
>I realize this is a tad off from fencing topics, but does anyone know
>where the term "ping-pong" came from?  Is it slang, or is it the proper
>name for the game?!  Is this an original American name, or does it have
>some other origin? 

As far as I know, "ping-pong" is a copyrighted name, like kleenex, xerox, etc.
I thought it was held by Milton Bradley, Parker Bros, or some such company.
"Table tennis" is the name used to describe the sport internationally.

The term "windsurfing" has recently started to win out over "boardsailing", 
with the demise of the "Windsurfer" company.
From: gleason@scf16.scf.loral.com (Robert Gleason)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Re: Broadsword fencing - StageFighting (Longish?)
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:34:21 GMT
	<37840@cbmvax.commodore.com>
	<1992Dec14.062209.27721@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Organization: Loral Space and Range Systems, Sunnyvale, CA


>   I've been sport fencing for years and years, but only tried SCA
>  broadsword fighting a couple times. And I found one thing horribly
>  frustrating.

>  I am left-handed.

>  The stupid shield.

>  It was on the wrong side.

  I was a left handed fencer and became a right handed heavy fighter
easily. The stance for a right heavy has the same foot forward as a
left fencer and in the en garde (sp) position the right arm is back
in both cases.

Robert Gleason.
From: as018b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Phrixus)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Scoring machines
Date: 16 Dec 92 18:21:37 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

My club is looking for a decent, CHEAP scoring machine that can handle foil
and preferably epee also.  Since we're going to buy electric sabres about
three days after Sadaam Hussein discovers his vocation in the ministry, it
doesn't really need to handle sabre.  Money is, shall we say, tighter than
your average chastity belt (which I suspect is where the Student Activities
office keeps it.)  Anybody know where we could find one?  Used would be
fine, as long as it's in decent shape.  

Aaron Sher, Grand High Poobah at University of Rochester Fencing
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: cjwong@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher J. Wong)
Subject: Re: Cleaning the uncleanable:
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 00:15:46 EST


On cleaning lames....

My old coach used to tell me to use Woolite to clean my lame.  
It actually worked.  It got rid of those yucky green spots.
Hey, it's good enough for those delicate sweaters...
I didn't notice any damage to my lame.  So, I guess it worked.
Since I haven't fenced for a couple of years, I'm not sure what kind of "new"
materials comprise of lames nowadays.  Back then, I had a non-stainless steel
lame.  This was right before the stainless steel lames were introduced.
So, are stainless steel lames the norm nowadays?

Anyway, the Woolite should probably still work.  Don't hold me to this
advice though.  You might want to spot test your lame with the Woolite
first before you dunk the whole thing in the stuff.

Hope this helps...

regards,
chris wong
cjwong@rodan.acs.syr.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: kyrsten@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Kyrsten Swazey)
Subject: :ping-pong:
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:53:42 GMT

I realize this is a tad off from fencing topics, but does anyone know
where the term "ping-pong" came from?  Is it slang, or is it the proper
name for the game?!  Is this an original American name, or does it have
some other origin? 
Any ideas?  (Sorry to post this here, but the name struck me as
curious...)

Kyrsten

BTW, are there fencing manuals - i would like to work on footwork and
lunges and would like to know different styles.  Is there a fencing FAQ
sheet?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: zklf0b@gs144.hou.amoco.com (Fergason)
Subject: Re: Computer games?
Organization: Amoco Production
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:40:32 GMT

In article <1992Dec9.222815.27934@rock.concert.net> penfold@rock.concert.net (Patricia A White -- Oxford University Press -- MIS) writes:
>
>Are there any video/computer fencing games?  I mean, Jeez, I remember
>pumping quarters into Hat Trick but I still have no desire to suit up
>and play ice hockey for real.  Maybe if we all petitioned Nintendo or
>something we could get yet-another-way-to-avoid-doing-work.
>
>-Patricia
> penfold@rock.concert.net

Not quite sure what you want, but the old Epyx game Summer Games II had
a fencing part.   It was pretty neat.  Pirates from Microprose also
has a sword play part, and it is a pretty neat game also.

Kelly
From: jane@soave.swdc.stratus.com (Jane Beckman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Re: Cleaning the uncleanable:
Date: 17 Dec 92 00:47:41 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., San Jose, CA

>Rubbing small amounts (I assume you don't want your fencing gloves getting
>too slick) of neatsfoot or mink oil will help to keep the leather supple
>despite the repeated washings.

A caveat: neatsfoot oil will discolor the leather.
Particularily if you have those nice *white* fencing gauntlets
that I've lusted after so many times...  I tried neatsfoot oil
on some white kid gloves I had, once.  Afterwards, I had some
nice *buff* colored kid gloves.  They stayed that way.

--
  Jilara   [jane@swdc.stratus.com]

"The field of pseudo-science hasn't progressed much in ten
years, except to gain access to the net." --from ca.earthquakes
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Re: concession, flames, discussion (re: fencing or fighting?)
From: king@reasoning.com (Dick King)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 02:11:49 GMT
Organization: Reasoning Systems, Inc., Palo Alto, CA

In article <BzD3n3.1Cx@iapa.uucp%mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu>
ctrbdo@iapa.uucp%mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu (bryan d oakley) writes:
>
>A halt is called while Fencer A's front foot is in the
>air, and then Fencer A's front foot comes down on the rear limit line
>after the halt.  What's the call?

Ignore my previous message.

Isn't "on the line" in bounds?

-dk
From: penfold@rock.concert.net (Patricia A White -- Oxford University Press -- MIS)
Subject: Re: Left vs Right Handness
Organization: CONCERT-CONNECT -- Public Access UNIX
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:17:02 GMT

In article <13901@ecs.soton.ac.uk> ajl@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Lewis AJ) writes:
re: switching hands
>The only problem is
>that you need two sets of equipment (expensive), and the bother of changing
>between bouts if your jackets & britches are handed ones.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Andy

Don't take this the wrong way but...
Was this a typo or are you serious?  Britches being designed for
lefties?  Or righties?  C'mon, I thought knickers were knickers (were
britches were pants).  Are "they" trying to sell new and improved
designs for more money?

-Patricia
 penfold@rock.concert.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Those who know that they are profound strive for clarity.  Those who would
like to seem profound to the crowd strive for obscurity."  --Nietzsche
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: alight@rock.concert.net (Alan R Light -- Personal Account)
Subject: The "Yahoo" factor (was Re: French Grips)
Organization: CONCERT-CONNECT -- Public Access UNIX
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:52:59 GMT

In article <8707.11791@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> jane@soave.swdc.stratus.com (Jane Beckman) writes:
>
>Wow, my worst nightmare just came back to haunt me.  The time
>I watched an idiot come at a guy with a foil with a Cavalry
>sabre.  We had been doing a '20's party, and were having
>fencing combat on the lawn, with foils.  [rest of text deleted]
>
>I say we should have just shot him and saved the trouble.  ;-)
>
>Seriously, though, if you're ever doing informal fencing,
>beware of the Yahoo Factor. 

Amen to that!  I've learned not to even let somebody hold a foil.
It's unbelievable how they want to go around, and nearly poke out
some eyes -- even a foil is dangerous without ANY protection.

If someone wants to hold the foil now, I first show them how to
hold it, what not to do, and most importanly keep a mask and foil
handy so I can disarm them if they get reckless.  Sure, they have
complete control of the blade -- most of the time, except when
they misjudge by an inch when they were going to stop 1/2 an inch
away from someone's face.

>--
>  Jilara   [jane@swdc.stratus.com]
>
>"The field of pseudo-science hasn't progressed much in ten
>years, except to gain access to the net." --from ca.earthquakes

I like your quote too.

-- Alan
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: forman@fraser.sfu.ca (Pamela Catherine Forman)
Subject: Blades in general
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 08:25:10 GMT

If you want a good strong blade that lasts forever, try a Vostok(sp?).
They are heavy, unbalanced, unweildly, but they are strong.  The only
problem I've ever encountered with them is that they are lousy for
roasting marshmallows as they tend to start melting before the
marshmallow(s) do.

						Alan Stewart
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: penfold@rock.concert.net (Patricia A White -- Oxford University Press -- MIS)
Subject: Re: historical perspective
Organization: CONCERT-CONNECT -- Public Access UNIX
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:23:08 GMT


I got into fencing about a year or two before I got into European
history but there are some interesting stories out there.

I had a professor who was intrigued by the duelling clubs that existed
(and are supposedly reappearing) in Central Europe.  The premise is
basically the same as fencing but WITHOUT A MASK.  The object is to
get a scar to prove your manhood and your class background.  My prof
said the corresponding equivalent was an English school tie... and
he'd much prefer to wear a tie!

In 1936, the woman most favored to win the gold medal was a Jew who
had left Germany for the U.S.  Hitler wanted to prove to the world how
great his country was and, since he wanted that gold medal to be
tallied up for Deutschland, this woman fenced for Germany.  She won,
too.  I believe she then went back to the States.  (Although this
should be easy to verify in any book w/ Olympic stats, I haven't
checked it out.  I just thought it was an amusing supposedly-true
anecdote.)

And with more WWII trivia...  Himmler's protege, Reinhard Heydrich
(you know, the guy who came up with the Final Solution) was a sabre
fencer.  He was in a competition one day and was so PO'ed at the
director's call, he broke his weapon and was disqualified.  (Uh oh,
did I do something taboo by saying something nice about a director?)

That's all I can think of off-hand. 

-Patricia
 penfold@rock.concert.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Those who know that they are profound strive for clarity.  Those who would
like to seem profound to the crowd strive for obscurity."  --Nietzsche

Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: scasterg@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stuart M Castergine)
Subject: Re: Broadsword fencing - StageFighting (Longish?)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 06:22:09 GMT

I've been sport fencing for years and years, but only tried SCA
broadsword fighting a couple times. And I found one thing horribly
frustrating.

I am left-handed.

The stupid shield.

It was on the wrong side.

Really. I ended up blocking 90 percent of the blows with my sword,
while my shield basically just served to deprive me of an arm and
obstruct my vision. Ah, how I longed to have a weapon in that hand!

I've heard people argue that the Florentine (two-weapon) style
is/isn't more effective than sword&shield, but does anybody have any
commentary from a purely left-handed perspective? Just from my
instincts as a fencer, I felt that I could have been a lot more
effective if I had had a short sword in my off hand -- something like
the Japanese two-weapon style. I saw all sorts of things that I could
have been doing, and since I have very good defense, I feel confident
that I would be able to parry just about anything that came in without
the need for a shield. Like I was saying, since most of it comes in on
the sword side anyway, the shield was just something to hang on my arm
and get in the way.

I can see how it would be useful in a war when there is too much chaos
to be able to concentrate on parrying anything that comes at you, but
in single combat, I think a shield is a loser for a lefty.


-- 
scasterg@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu -- Stuart M. Castergine
Fiver: "Oh, Hazel, look! The field! It's covered with blood!"
Hazel: "Don't be silly, it's only the light of the sunset." -- Watership Down
From: morgan@sitka.triumf.ca (Morgan Burke)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Bob Roberts
Date: 17 Dec 1992 01:52:36 GMT
Organization: TRIUMF, Vancouver BC
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sitka.triumf.ca

Did somebody recently ask about fencing in the movie Bob Roberts?

I saw it last night, and yes, there are fencing moments scattered 
throughout the movie.  Bob Roberts, a folk-singing reactionary 
running for the U.S. Senate, is also a champion "sword fighter",
and drives a Harley.

Bob fences foil on the slopes beside the road when his campaign bus
is stopped at the side of the highway.  Some of the fencing is quite 
passable, but it's mostly in the background, and there isn't more than
a few minutes of it throughout the entire movie.  It has no bearing 
on the plot, so I can only assume Tim Robbins (the producer/author/star) 
is an avid fencer and just wanted it in there somewhere.

Amusingly, Bob gets very annoyed when he loses, and invariably throws
his mask to the ground before jumping on his Harley and blasting off ahead 
of the bus.  The shots of Bob riding his hog in his fencing whites 
(complete with white full-face helmet and black visor) is worth the
price of admission alone.

Ahh.  Fencing and motorcycles.  Can't go far wrong with a combination 
like that.

................................................ Morgan Burke
                                                 morgan@sitka.triumf.ca
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
From: balaban@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Marko Balabanovic)
Subject: Re: A few questions and observations
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 21:54:54 GMT

In article <Bz5p0u.AD1@ucunix.san.uc.edu> kreinddm@ucunix.san.uc.edu (David M Kreindler) writes:
>In article <1g3uimINNduu@tamsun.tamu.edu> rgd3729@tamsun.tamu.edu (Greg Dilworth) writes:
>>In article <2B24AEA3.4919@deneva.sdd.trw.com> rosen@pooh.sdd.trw.com (Daniel Rosen) writes:
>>
>>>The second question involves sabre fencing; for quite a while I have
>>>developed an attack which I initiate "en pointe" (set up for a point
>>>with my arm extended). As my opponent attempts to parry, I disengage
>>>and WITHOUT BENDING MY ARM or REMOVING THE POINT FROM BEING INLINE, I
>>>bring the saber under his blade (the disengage) then continue the
>>>motion bringing it full over to a head cut. Lately, several directors
>>>have said that beginning en pointe and continuing to a cut
>>>constitutes a break in fencing time and if my opponent hits me prior
>>>to the head cut, they declare that I have lost the right of way. I
>>>can't find any reference to this in the USFA rules, but perhaps I am
>>>not paying close enough attention. Anyone who could shed light on
>>>this, please let me know. Thanks a lot. 
>>
>[First reply omitted.]
>
>There's an additional twist to this, though, and whether or not it
>applies to your question is unclear from the way you've explained the
>situation.  In sabre, a point-in-line is considered a purely defensive
>action; it's different from an attack with the point.  Essentially, you
>can't be moving forward with a point-in-line: if you try doing so into
>your opponent's attack, you've lost your priority since you no
>longer have a point-in-line established, but are executing a (counter-)
>attack with the point instead.  (There *are* a bunch of situations in
>which you'll be able to score a touch with the counter-attack - opponent
>breaks his/her attack, doesn't complete the attack, tries an
>unsuccessful prise-de-fer, etc. - but that wasn't what you asked.)
>-- 
>kreinddm@ucunix.san.uc.edu -------------------------------------------------
>

In fact an attack or counter-attack with the point no longer loses you
the priority you had with an established point-in-line, as long as
you don't bend your arm or something.  This rule was changed a year or
two ago, thus countering the ridiculous situation where a step forward
did not lose your priority but a lunge did.

However changing from a point action to a cut does constitute a break
in the time. 

Incidentally I am talking about FIE rules here - I don't know if the
USFA has a different interpretation of these matters.

Marko Balabanovic
balaban@cs.stanford.edu
From: mece25r@jane.uh.edu (Palit, Suman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Re: Weapons preferences flame war :-)
Date: 16 Dec 1992 18:00 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1992Dec16.023914.7972@wdl.loral.com>, nyden@wdl30.wdl.loral.com (William Nyden) writes...
>but:
> 
>  Epeeists have stiffer weapons... and use them all over your body!

> Bill Nyden                          |    I do not officially represent anyone


Ah, but GOD plays foil..... at least, he understands right-of-way better
than I do :-)

But seriously, though i like foil, epee makes me light-headed at the end of the 
bout. It forces me to push my awareness about myself, my body, at a much higher
level. With foil, half my mind is worrying about establishing right-of-way,
while the other half is thouroughly confused and/or asleep.


Suman Palit
mec25r@jetson.uh.edu


P.S. Sabre is for reincarnated rhinos looking for their missing horn  :-) :-)
From: cq431@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jonathan Atleson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: How about France?
Date: 19 Dec 1992 03:59:43 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Does anyone know of a salle in or around Fontainebleau, which is
near Paris?-Jonathan Atleson  SJA7804@OCVAXA.CC.OBERLIN.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing