HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ben@bailey.UUCP (Ben Bailey)
Subject: Re: Un-moderating a newsgroup? (NOT rec.arts.erotica)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Date: 19 Aug 92 01:38:32 GMT
Distribution: news
Organization: Ben Bailey's Home..Tampa Fl.

dseal@armltd.co.uk (David Seal) writes:
> In article <1992Aug12.171844.22993@leland.Stanford.EDU>
> jchokey@leland.Stanford.EDU (James Alexander Chokey) writes:
> 
> >	There's been some (not a lot, but some) talk on rec.food.cooking 
> >about the possibility of changing rec.food.recipes from a moderated to an
> >unmoderated newsgroup.  The main reason for this is that the current 
> >moderator (for legitimate reasons--  she has been hospitalized) has not posted
> >anything in the past few months.  Rather than "replacing" the moderator,
> >some people have proposed changing the group to an unmoderated format.
> >
> >	What would need to be done officially in order to effect this change
> >or to see whether or not a large number of people thought it was a good idea?
> >Is there a document somewhere that describes this process in detail?  If not,
> >could someone please tell me just would need to be done.  

This has actually been going on since at least Dec '91 (when I started 
monitoring that group, possibly before).  The first posts that I have
ever seen out of this group was this week, after people started complaining
again.

> 
> Probably the easiest way of dealing with this situation is to find a
> volunteer moderator and get the current moderator to appoint them as a
> temporary replacement, assuming she is in a fit state to do so. I have
> certainly seen moderators do similar things when they go on holiday, etc.,
> so there is some precedent for this. Its big advantage is that it doesn't
> seem to require a vote: it can go through as fast as you can arrange it.
>
<stuff deleted> 

The question wasn't how to swap moderators, it was how to change a group
from moderated to unmoderated.

> David Seal
> dseal@armltd.co.uk
> 
> All opinions are mine only...

--
Ben Bailey                 ben@bailey.uucp -- bailey!ben@uunet.uu.net
12210 Shady Forest Dr.     ben@bailey.tscs.com
Riverview, Fl. 33569       -- The main thing is to keep the main
813-677-5021                  thing the main thing.  Mainly. 
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: Venkatachalam Aruna  (Affable)
Subject: Re: Impropriety in soc.culture.tamil vote
Reply-To: aruna@tree.egr.uh.edu (Venkatachalam Aruna)
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 23:16:36 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.222207.15657@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com  
(alok.vijayvargia) writes:
> In article <1992Aug11.150911.9245@coe.montana.edu>, prem@cs.montana.edu  
(M.P.Premkumar) writes:
> > 
[stuff deleted]
> 
> I have the right to examine this vote and ask for any data associated with  
it.

 How can you say you have the right? On what grounds? If everybody says
like this, who will decide who has the right to check the e-mails?
 [ stuff deleted]

> Very Sincerely Yours,
> 
> A. Vijayvargia

 Cheers,
 Venkat
--
venkat@jetson.uh.edu                  | If you love something,set it free.
venkat@menudo.uh.edu                  | If it comes back, it is yours.
aruna@tree.egr.uh.edu(NeXT mails okay)| If it does not, it never was.
(713)-923-7773(h) & (713)-743-4250(w) |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rsnyder@atl.ge.com (Bob Snyder)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.graphics.gnuplot
Date: 11 Aug 92 18:21:30 GMT
Organization: GE Aerospace, Advanced Technology Labs

In article <23387@oasys.dt.navy.mil> hendrix@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Dane Hendrix) writes:
>While I use gnuplot and would enjoy more contact with other developers
>and users, I haven't seen much traffic on the mailing list that this 
>group would augment/replace.  I question whether there would be 
>sufficient traffic to justify a separate group.

Wouldn't this be better off under the gnu.* hierarchy?

Bob
-- 
Bob Snyder, Computing Services, GE Aerospace, Advanced Technology Labs
rsnyder@atl.ge.com, (609) 866-6672, FAX: (609) 866-6397, DialComm 8*777-6672
Xref: sparky news.groups:16848 rec.bicycles:20731
From: bradloff@tms390.micro.ti.com (Brian Radloff)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: RESULT: rec.bicycles reorganization passes
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:18:04 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Texas Instruments, Houston

parksd@source.asset.com (Don Parks) writes:

>In article <1992Aug13.044251.9828@uunet.uu.net> les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:
>>All of the six new unmoderated newsgroups proposed to replace
>>rec.bicycles were approved by margins of at least 403 to 124, which
>>amply meets the established criteria.  I have not bothered to count
>>the votes separately for each newsgroup because the approval rate was
>>so high for the entire proposal.  Thus, the new newsgroups are to be:
>>  rec.bicycles.marketplace
>>  rec.bicycles.tech
>>  rec.bicycles.rides
>>  rec.bicycles.soc
>>  rec.bicycles.racing
>>  rec.bicycles.misc
>>
>>...

Is this for real?  It's hard for me to believe.  In the past two years, many votes were held
and none were even close to passing.  Did someone fake the data?  Is that possible, I don't really
understand how the voting is done and verified.

I have to say that if this is real, I am very disappointed.  I think it will be to much overhead
to scan all of these groups, and I may miss out on a lot of good stuff in other groups.  I
liked being able to scan the "generic" rec.bicycles and pick out some race, tech, marketplace,
misc posts.  Oh well, hope this really makes those 403 people happy.   Maybe we can just get
everyone to crosspost everything to the misc group and then those of us that liked it the way it
was just need to read rec.bicycles.misc!  How's that sound?

--Brian Radloff
  bradloff@micro.ti.com
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: karish@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Chuck Karish)
Subject: Re: rec.motorcycles.harley vote acknowledgment
Summary: Shut up, Steve.
Organization: Mindcraft, Inc.
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:14:45 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.162646.600@ncsu.edu> steve@bucolix.ece.ncsu.edu
(Steve Garnier) writes:

>To me, "suspicion" is nothing compared to "accusation".  My biggest
>problem on this thread is that the net.community appears to read what 
>I'd define as "accusation" when I write what I'd define as "suspicion".

My biggest problem on this thread is that Steve Garnier's
pathological need to justify himself has totally eclipsed
any sense of proportion.

>If you don't suspect something, then why bother to ever investigate?

If you do suspect something and investigate it, and your
investigation shows that there's no chance that correcting
detectable error and fraud can have any bearing on the
outcome, why do you continue to belabor the issue?

Personal note to Steve:  The preceding sentence was a
RHETORICAL QUESTION.  I know that you do it because you
can't help yourself.  I don't need an answer.
--

    Chuck Karish          karish@mindcraft.com
    (415) 323-9000 x117   karish@forel.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: comp.org.aix
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 05:20:13 GMT

Mike> == Mike Heath <mike@pencom.com> 

 Mike> Proposed Charter:  comp.org.aix

 Mike> The purpose of this group is to discuss issues relating to the
 Mike> International AIX-RISC System/6000 User Group.

comp.org.intl-aix-ug or something, please.  comp.org.sug isn't
"comp.org.sunos" after all.

And yes, as I said before, it fits SysV just fine.
--
Christopher Davis * ckd@eff.org * System Administrator, EFF * +1 617 864 0665
            ``Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ti Kwan Leep.
            Approach me that you might see.'' -- The Master
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.motorcycles,rec.motorcycles.dirt,rec.motorcycles.racing,alt.motorcycles.harley
From: shz@garage.att.com (Keeper of the 'Tude)
Subject: Re: rec.motorcycles.harley vote acknowledgment
Organization: Office of 'Tude Licensing
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:45:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.172348.10326@ncsu.edu>, steve@bucolix.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier) writes:
> Maybe I should have mentioned the vote from "root@alaska.et.byu.edu System
> Operator", eh?  How many people do you know that regularly read news and post
> someone who does.

Lots of people read news as root.  Just grep through your news spool
directories!  Back in '83 when I read news on UNIX boxes that I was
developing I never bothered to give myself a login and just used root.

If someone was interested in casting extra votes and had root access,
they would likely use normal looking logins to avert suspicion.

Granted, there were several suspicious sets of votes including:

>> CAD8025@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca "Problem Reporting, A" 
>> ACAD8059@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca Mike Mychalkiw 
>> ADVI8721@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca advisor's utility disk

Labeling them as "Suspected Cheaters" is *way* too harsh unless you know
more than what appears in the three lines above.

- Roid
From: ben@bailey.UUCP (Ben Bailey)
Subject: Procedure for changing to unmoderated?
Newsgroups: news.groups
Date: 15 Aug 92 10:27:36 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Ben Bailey's Home..Tampa Fl.

There is currently a discussion in rec.food.cooking regarding making
the group rec.food.recipes unmoderated.  In the past year, no
articles have been posted (or almost none) to this group.

The current discussion seems to indicate that the well meaning 
moderator hasn't had the time to moderate the group properly.  Since
this has become an issue, a general debate has insued regarding
making the group unmoderated, as opposed to getting a new moderator.

I would like to know what the procedures are for holding a vote
for the purpose of moving a newsgroup from moderated to unmoderated.

Thanks
Ben Bailey
--
Ben Bailey                 ben@bailey.uucp -- bailey!ben@uunet.uu.net
12210 Shady Forest Dr.     ben@bailey.tscs.com
Riverview, Fl. 33569       -- The main thing is to keep the main
813-677-5021                  thing the main thing.  Mainly. 
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: B.Kumar@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Impropriety in soc.culture.tamil vote (Re: soc.culture.tamil
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:04:37 GMT

In article  of "17 Aug 92 17:25:15 GMT." <5413@armltd.uucp> 
David Seal dseal@armltd.co.uk writes
 
>In article <1992Aug14.221326.15445@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>
>alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>
>>Assume for a moment that he [the vote-taker] is innocent and nothing wrong ha
ppened.
>>Why is he then refusing to provide the data requested from him for last
>>25 days ?.
>
>One simple suggestion: the cost of email. Do you realise how many kilobytes
>the text of all the votes in even a small poll would add up to, and how much
>it would cost to send them to everyone who took it into their heads to check
>the results? Even the abbreviated form of the results that is posted on
>news.groups and news.announce.newgroups is often a long document...
>On top of the financial cost is the cost in the vote-taker's time of merging
>all the votes into a suitable number of parts (they can't be sent all in one
>message because of the widespread limit of 100k on email messages) and
>mailing them.

This argument does not hold. There are 645 yes messages. If we assume that
each message was 100 byte, it will only make it around 64 Kbyte. Use any
compression and you would have a nearly 50 to sixty percent reduction.
Do you think 30 Kbyte is big file?? Just around 30 Packets of 1Kbyte
each. 

Each postscript page is roughly 10 kbyte. All messages are no more 
than sending 3 postscript pages.  What is the point of not supplying 
email messages then ?

If vote taker is clean, he should not have any problem in supplying emails
unless, of course, there is something "fishy" ?.

Regards,

brijesh
From: bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Much to your relief...
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:25:45 EST
Organization: Logicon Technical Services, Inc.

	George is going to conduct a straw poll to see about r.a.e and I mailed
Dave Lawrence to ask him to comment on whether the current RFD/CFV guidelines
are sufficient to remove/replace a moderator, so I'll keep quiet until we have
the results from these two fact finding missions.

Brett--------------------------------------------------------------------------
	"Why the courts don't tell a husband who has been living off his wife
to go out and get a job is beyond my comprehension."--Joan Lunden
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky news.groups:17072 rec.bicycles:21527
From: cs_jh@cox.nsac.ns.ca (JEFF HOYLE)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: MTB newsgroup, any interest?
Date: 22 Aug 92 19:26:51 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Nova Scotia AC

In article <1992Aug19.124826.2911@source.asset.com> parksd@source.asset.com (Don Parks) writes:

>In article <tr.714150227@samadams> tr@samadams.princeton.edu (Tom Reingold) writes:
>>There were many calls for discussion and much discussion, all over the
>>course of MONTHS.  The entire procedure was done by the book.  You guys
>>picked a poor time to complain.  Now you have no one to whom you can
>>direct your flames except yourselves.
>>--

>Shut up Tom...  Many of the people that would still like to see a
>rec.mtb group are the same people who pushed for it during the
>discussion period.  Many of these same people voted NO for the split,
>but were out number (obviously).

>I would still like to see an mtb group even if it is only in the 'alt'
>hierarchy.  If anyone else is interested (or even if not) could you
>please pass on to me info on how to start newsgroup RFD's, CFV's, etc.
>and/or how to create an 'alt' group.

>I'm not looking for independence form the rec.bikers, just another
>option for those of us with strong interests in mountain bikes...

>Don (parksd@source.ASSET.com) Juan
>-- 

I agree with this groups, lets set one up. It would be better in rec. I 
think.


  ***********************************************************
  * Dr Jeff Hoyle (Organic Chemist)                         *
  * Chemistry and Soil Science Department                   *
  * Nova Scotia Agricultural College    FAX: (902)-895-4547 *                     *
  * P.O. Box 550, TRURO,              Voice: (902)-893-6630 *
  * Nova Scotia. CANADA  B2N  5E3                           *  
  *                  -----------------                      * 
  * Internet: cs_jh@cox.nsac.ns.ca  OR  jh_cs@ac.nsac.ns.ca *
  ***********************************************************
From: fenner@cmf.nrl.navy.mil (William C Fenner)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: It's time to clean up the hierachy, i.e. RFD on mass rmgrping
Date: 13 Aug 92 22:24:23 GMT
Organization: NRL Connection Machine Facility, Washington, DC

In article <1992Aug13.000359.20579@midway.uchicago.edu> elle@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>The rest of Usenet can send out rmgroups till we're blue
>in the face, but if your newsadmin isn't honoring them, you'll have 
>to resort to local persuasion.  Such as writing a script to funnel
>comp.group.superseded into the mailbox of usenet@your.site.

I used to run a program that would reply to the person who posted the article,
telling them that the newsgroup is bogus.  I ended up ditching that idea,
since I kept getting complaints from people who absolutely wouldn't believe
me, and I started spending way too much time explaining that, say,
comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer was removed over a year ago.

I was thinking of changing it to mail to usenet@<posting site>, instead of
the user, but I figured then I'd just get a whole bunch of bounces from
sites without a usenet account.

(Plus, I got the "Well, there's traffic in it, it can't be bogus" argument more
times than I can count.  sigh.)

  Bill
-- 
Bill Fenner                  fenner@cmf.nrl.navy.mil
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: mgfrank@avernus.com (Marc G. Frank)
Subject: Re: changing a newsgroup's moderator
Organization: Maryland Appreciation Society, Buffalo, NY
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 09:08:28 GMT

In article <0050F.ar5d6@dragon.enigami.mv.com> cory@enigami.mv.com writes:
[stuff deleted]
>Considering that Kamens' original objections were to the very process
>of *DISCUSSING* the proposed change, I thing that 'censor' is
>accurate.  I note that he has changed his oppinion somewhat, but is
>still against open discussion (e.g. he still thinks that we should
>vote (e.g. ask permission) before we are allowed to formally discuss 
>things).
[more stuff deleted]

The key word in that last sentence is "formally."  Mr. Kamens doesn't
seem to be saying that *no* discussion will be permitted prior to the
straw poll, but that there won't be a *formal RFD* prior to the poll.  I
would hardly call that censorship.

You may well argue that the poll wouldn't be highly visible if something
pertaining to it weren't posted in the moderated group.  Perhaps so, but
Mr. Kamens doesn't suggest that 00 votes are necessary to make a formal
RFD "legal."  The notice of the straw poll could be posted here and in
the related .d group, if any.  E-mail is also available, of course.  If
you can't find ten or twenty people (for instance) who are dissatisfied
with the moderator by posting to news.groups, the .d group where
appropriate, and through e-mail, then perhaps your campaign to change
moderators *deserves* to fail.


I've just noticed that Pnews claims to post to thousands of machines
throughout the "civilized" world.  I think I'll have to change that
wording.  :-)

Disclaimer: I don't read r.a.e and I'm not a moderator.  I am, however,
a news administrator of sorts.


Marc G. Frank                                      mgfrank@avernus.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
    "Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand."
                           Homer Simpson
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.culture.arabic,alt.moslem.wanted.gay,talk.bizarre
From: greg@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Gregory Nowak)
Subject: Re: Offensive Newsgroup
Followup-To: news.admin,soc.culture.arabic,misc.test,alt.moslem.wanted.gay,talk.bizarre
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 11:00:23 GMT

IN NEWS.ADMIN,  zafar@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Syed Zafar Kazmi) says:

}>Recently, three new newsgroups were created in "alt" group hierarchy.
}>Among those three, one is "alt.moslem.wanted.gay". 

}>Needless to say, muslim community on net is very much offended
}>by the creation of this group. 


I leave it to others to explain to Mr. Kazmi what the alt net is. It
is worth pointing out, though, that just becuause a religious or other
cultural group has certain ideals, it does not follow that the world
at large is obligated to help that group maintain a whitewashed
picture of that group. Many Christians believe their religion forbids
homosexuality; many homosexuals identify themselves as Christians. Few
Christians go so far as to deny the _existence_ of gay Christians --
though some Muslims on the net have denied the existence of gay
Muslims. Perhaps hard-line American Muslims are more strict than their
Arabic brethren on this issue -- after all, Ali Laaridh, the spokesman
of the Tunisian Islamic movement Annadha, is homosexual, and is
receiving criticism about this more from the NON-Islamic government of
Tunisia than from his fellow Tunisian Muslims. 

I'm often struck by the inherent contradiction of the pronouncements
of Muslim doomsayers on the net: first they tell us, "you will have to
answer to Allah one day" and three lines later it's "I feel like doing
a little of Allah's work for him RIGHT NOW!" Can't Allah take care of
himself? Meanwhile, can't we have a little tolerance?


             greg

Newsgroups: news.groups
From: bjoerns@stud.cs.uit.no (Bjoern Stabell)
Subject: Charter for rec.games.programmer
Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 15:47:32 GMT

I didn't know of a more appropriate newsgroup, so I'm posting here.

We've had this very long discussion on rec.games.programmer concerning
which issues are appropriate and which are not.  I believe that if there is
a charter for the group, it would clarify this problem.  (I can see that,
if the group is very old, there might not exist such a charter.)

So, where can I obtain charters for newsgroups?  In particular, where can I
find the charter for rec.games.programmer?


Best regards,
-- 
                                                  Bjoern Stabell
                                                  University of Tromsoe
                                                  (+47) 83 44 053 / 83 75 164
                                                  bjoerns@staff.cs.uit.no
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: several instrument-specific rec.music groups
Date: 19 Aug 92 23:20:59 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <Bt7pr0.3G7@uunet.uu.net> rsk@aspen.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec) writes:
|Introduction: There are several newsgroups in the alt.* hierarchy which
|are utilized for the discussion of various musical instruments.  The traffic
|in these groups and the degree of participation from posters to the
|rec.music.* groups indicate that it might be time to consider shifting
|these groups to rec.music, and possibly to create another group or two
|at the same time.
|
|Proposal A: Create rec.music.guitar, and remove alt.guitar.

[rest of article deleted]

If you continue to pursue this I'd recommend a slight change.  Rather than
put these groups directly under the rec.music hierarchy, put them under
rec.music.makers and then move rec.music.synth there as well.
-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
From: jae@cstr.ed.ac.uk (John Elliott)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.speech
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:52:56 GMT
Followup-To: RFD: comp.speech
Organization: Centre for Speech Technology Research, Edinburgh University

We have about 30 researchers here that would be very interested in all the 
aspects mentioned.

-- 

					----------oOo-----------
					     John A. Elliott         
					----------oOo-----------	
Newsgroups: news.groups