HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: macman@newton.WPI.EDU (Chris Silverberg)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs,alt.bbs.allsysop,alt.bbs.internet
Subject: Re: GEnie Connection
Date: 11 Sep 1992 13:07:33 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: newton.wpi.edu

In an article yury@bknight.jpr.com (Yury German) rambles:

> GEnie's(R) Internet Mail Service Rates and Terms
> ================================================

> *  $9.95 subscription fee per month; renewed automatically each month.
>
> *  $ .40 per outbound message, billed to your GEnie account on a monthly
>    basis.
>
> *  GEnie's Internet Mail Service subscription fee includes unlimited
>    inbound messages.

So, let me get this straight... if someone on GEnie wants internet mail,
they have to pay an EXTRA $9.95 a month???  Plus .40 for EACH message sent?

And what happens if I send mail to someone who doesn't subscribe to this...
does it bounce or just get lost...

I mean, look at what America Online is doing... free inbound and outbound
messages... I think Compuserve is also free.  Well, this is probably the
wrong newsgroup... but if someone can just clarify for me what would happen
if I send an internet message to a GEnie person who does NOT subscribe.  If
it just gets sucked up by the wind, I am NOT going to bother to tell my users
about this gateway... that would be useless.

- Chris


 
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
   Chris Silverberg                     INTERNET: macman@wpi.wpi.edu
   Worcester Polytechnic Institute      WMUG BBS  508-832-5844 (TeleFinder)
   America Online: TfChris              FIDONET:  1:322/115.1
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: Sad to say...
Date: 12 Sep 92 23:03:17 GMT
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley) writes:

>davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:

...

>> So Fido is kept as the mail pathways and the mail goes over another.
>> Not quite the same as how USENET can have one path for news and can
>> another for mail but similar.

>You're on the right track.  The biggest problem for all of the fido-technology
>nets is the costs involved.  All of the fido sites are dialup lines, no T1
>technology here.  That means that sysops are shelling out a lot of their own
>bucks to ld carriers.  Usenet's reliance on institutional systems for the
>backbone is one of the reasons it's so much more widespread.

On the other hand, it means that sysops willing to spend money can
control the flow of traffic, something I call "economic copyrighting" :-)

Perhaps the biggest reason I chose to go with USENET instead of Fido
was I figured I stood a chance of finding a UUCP site that would give
me a feed while I knew for sure the Fido-ops in Tokyo wouldn't. If I
didn't get a feed I would have to dial the U.S. but at least I stood
a chance. It turned out to be a good bet and a feed site materialized...

In light of sysops paying for ld carriers, another question I have
about Fido is how much traffic in terms of *volume* there is. Not
just in terms of number of echos (which I think is the more or less
the equivalent of a USENET newgroup) and not just in terms of number
of messages, but total k-bytes/day.

The sysops in Tokyo claim "it's not so expensive" but I it costs me
about 15,000 yen ($120) per month (at 3.3 yen/minute) in local telco
charges to get my feed. At low night rates (110 yen/minute to the
U.S.; cheapest place to call from Japan) that would cost about 33.3
times as much or $4,000/month. Conclusion: either they are a lot
richer than I can imagine or they don't get a lot of volume.... 

Do you have any information on the volume in k-bytes for Fido? 

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
Xref: sparky alt.bbs:5847 alt.bbs.allsysop:658 alt.bbs.internet:3639
From: roy%cybrspc@cs.umn.edu (Roy M. Silvernail)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: Big Brother BBS policies
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 13:05:43 CDT
Organization: Villa CyberSpace, Minneapolis, MN

fnord@panix.com (Cliff Heller) writes:

> I don't want to have to say this again.  I never ever ever suggested that
> sysops should endorse illegal activity.  I co-sysop a BBS and I deal quite
> sternly with anyone who uploads commercial software, or posts illegal
> phreak information, or who even requests such things.

OK, so what exactly are you going to do when the constable kicks in YOUR
door because they caught one of your anonymous users passing phreak
information or pirated commercial software through your system?

That's right... passing info _through_ your system.  Not posted.  Not
uploaded.  Simply passed through your facilities, perhaps in mail.  Still
think you don't need to know who your users are?

> However, to require personal information so that you can then rat them out
> to the police is unforgiveable and quite unamerican. 

To cover my ass, in the highly unlikely event that the real Big Brother
wants to slap that ass in jail for somebody else's prank?  Unamerican?
Go away!  I refuse to take the fall for some dweeb with no remaining
operable brain cells.

> I'm sorry, but the way I was raised, there is nothing lower than a rat, and
> that is exactly what you are.  It is one thing to not support illegal
> activity on your own computer.

Not support it?  Hell, I don't PERMIT it to occur!  And if you slip
something through my screens, I damn sure want to know where to re-aim
the cannon.

> You Big Brother sysops are ruining it (In many ways, you already have).

The anonymous communication you promote is not compromised simply
because I want to know who is using MY equipment.  If you are not
forthcoming enough to tell me, the owner of the equipment you wish to
utilize, your real name and phone number (which is all I, personally,
have ever requested), your account's life expectancy may be measured in
seconds, most likely with a negative exponent.

The golden age is over, fnord.  There's a real world out there, and it
doesn't like us.
--
Roy M. Silvernail --  roy%cybrspc@cs.umn.edu - OR-  cybrspc!roy@cs.umn.edu
           "I used to be disgusted, but now I'm just amused."
                                  -- from an old T-shirt
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: Shame on Fidonet
Date: 12 Sep 92 23:12:30 GMT
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley) writes:

>davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:

>> Excuse me, but I don't believe you can compare the administration of
>> Fidonet and the non-administration of USENET.
>>
>> Likewise, while somebody may think of somebody else as "good" or
>> "bad" there is no official designation of such. The convention in
>> USENET is you speak for yourself.
>>
>> Just in case you haven't read it, attached is a statment of the
>> current conventions.

>I agree 100%.  The first significant difference I noticed between Usenet and
>Fidonet was in the creation of newsgroups.  Here in the net we have a CFD, then
>a CFV, and the users decide whether or not a group is added.  In the case of
>alt groups, sometimes they just appear of their own accord.  In fidonet, if
>users want an echo added, they have to get 2 Regional Echomail Coordinators to
>concur with their desire before it's on the backbone.  Of course, anyone can
>start their own echo off the backbone, if they're willing to foot the
>transmission bill.

Yes, that's how it is in general. But with respect to local
heirarchies, I wonder. There is an on-going attempt within fj. to
make a new newsgroup that will be for Japanese nationals and people
of other nationality living in Japan. It's been going on for months
with the charter/name being revised again and again and nothing
coming of it but a lot of smoke. 

Also, one of the postmasters at a large university which shall
remain nameless (but if you guessed Tokyo Institute of Technology
you wouldn't be wrong :-) issues a constan stream of forged rmgroup
control messages.  Until somebody came up with a patch for B/C-news
that would let you control whose rmgroups were honored, things were
pretty messy.  So USENET isn't without it's problems although I
really wonder sometimes if fj. is part of USENET. 

Oh well, sure beats what I hear about Fight-O-Net. I have enough
problem without having to spend any time politicting to get things done. 

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
From: elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: Annoying Users...
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 15:05:52 CDT
Organization: Minas Tirith BBS (Public Access Usenet for New Orleans)

agb001@acad.drake.edu writes:

> I have to ask the question, but does any other people find that there are
> certain people who keep getting deleted, then get on a BBS under a fake accou
> and then seem to endlessly try to make a mockery of the intentions of the BBS
> 
> Are there any precautions that I could be advised to and also is there any
> legal approach to this? (This has been going on for almost a year and a half.
> 
> Thanks everyone...
> 
> Tony Bossaller
> AGB001@acad.drake.edu
> ParaPsykotic (DSW)
> 

IANAL, so take this for what it's worth, but there's probably not much 
you can do on the legal front unless the user is really harassing you or 
your users.  If this particular user is a kid, I'd call his folks.  You'd 
be surprised sometimes just how useful telling the parents can be.  Of 
course, some parents don't care what their kids are doing, but in many 
cases it's more a situation where the parents don't understand.  A phone 
call might help.


>Edward J. Branley         elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us<
>Seashell Software, Metairie, LA            +1-504-455-5087<
From: toma@sail.LABS.TEK.COM (Tom Almy)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: Big Brother BBS policies
Date: 11 Sep 92 18:19:25 GMT
Reply-To: toma@sail.labs.tek.com
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <HERMIT.92Sep10190239@am.ucsc.edu> hermit@cats.UCSC.EDU (William R. Ward) writes:

>I've noticed that on a lot of BBS's, the sysops tend to go through a
>lot of effort to identify users

>Can someone please give me a good justification for such activities?

I ask for the following information on my free BBS: real name and phone 
number so *I* know who is calling and can get in touch, and birthdate which
I use for statistical information (I have no adult areas). But users
can also specify an alias, and they are only publically known by their
alias. Roughly half the callers take advantage of the alias feature.

I have a menu item labeled "Verify new user" that unlocks the ability to
play the few games I have, enter messages, and download files. The 
verification is automatic after hitting the V key, no callback verifier
is used. Accounts where the key is not hit are automatically deleted
after two days. I delete any accounts for which a real name has not
been given after sending the user a message requesting their name and
not getting a reply.

Unlike most systems I've used, I don't prohibit more than one account
per phone number. In fact I want every user in a single residence to
have their own account.

I've had no problems with this scheme, haven't been bothered with
troublemakers, and the callers like it as well. I've had other sysops
here comment on how they are amazed that it works -- these are sysops that
use callback verifiers, etc.

-- 
Tom Almy
toma@sail.labs.tek.com
Standard Disclaimers Apply
From: larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: Re2: TBBS/TDBS/UNIX - Price of a BBS
Date: 14 Sep 92 12:06:01 GMT
Organization: The Gator Public Access Unix Site - 219-289-3745

peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser) writes:

>rjus@uonline.com (ren_just) writes:

>>Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that TBBS and TDBS can be installed with only
>>about 5 MB free.
>Oh wow! Linux only needs 3M for the basic system. And 15M if you want to
>have the C/C++ compiler and other goodies as well. The 3M installation
>includes everything you need for a basic multi-line multi-user system like
>a shell, an editor, login, etc.

But remember, TBBS/TDBS is only a bulletin board with a built in database
manager -- while Linux is a complete operating system -- there is quite
a difference


-- 
Larry Snyder                                    internet: larry@gator.rn.com
keeper of the Gator                                  uucp: uunet!gator!larry
From: rjus@uonline.com (ren_just)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: TBBS/TDBS/UNIX - Price of a BBS
Date: 9 Sep 92 10:43:22 GMT
Organization: Just Computers!

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that TBBS and TDBS can be installed with only
about 5 MB free.  How much space did you say you needed?  I believe you
listed 100 MB.  You might want to add some additional cost for the extra
hard drive space I need to run your system.  I can run a very effective 
BBS with about 60MB of space.  You can't even get your OS loaded with that,
much less do anything.  When you start comparing costs Larry, please show
an objective picture.


Newsgroups: alt.bbs
From: bjpocock@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Beastor the Mad)
Subject: Re: Big Brother BBS policies
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 00:37:38 GMT

>Just like Fnord, you're trying to put words into someone else's mouth...
>no one here ever suggested calling the police.  Such a policy would be
>incredibly stupid, as you put yourself at risk also.  It should be
>fairly obvious to *most* people that the practice of collecting real
>names is so you can point the police at the real culprit when they are
>threatening you.  Not calling the police... but when they show up at
>your door (after finding out about the illegal activities through their
>own sources), you can at least give them the names of the true
>criminals.

Well... my point is we're all criminals... at least most of us evil users
who don't have the cash to buy all the software we use... that is after
spending all the money we have on nice computer systems which can run the
software.

							-BEASTOR THE MAD-

Xref: sparky alt.bbs:6019 alt.bbs.ads:1382 comp.sys.amiga.datacomm:6335 alt.bbs.internet:3670 alt.sys.amiga.uucp:2152 comp.dcom.modems:13385 comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc:12638
From: ree88132@zach.fit.edu (Keith Ledig)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs,alt.bbs.ads,comp.sys.amiga.datacomm,alt.bbs.internet,alt.sys.amiga.uucp,comp.dcom.modems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,fit.announce
Subject: dialup uucp needed for free community bbs
Date: 14 Sep 92 18:40:20 GMT
Followup-To: alt.bbs
Distribution: fl
Organization: Florida Institute of Technology, Melbourne USA


The Tech-Forum BBS @ 407-722-4400 would like to have some limited
news feeds and Internet e-mail capabilities but we need a benevolent
host who would be graceous enought to allow our humble bbs to dial
up at 3am for 20 minutes a day.  We are v.32bis, HST, v.42bis.
This is a community service freely accessable bbs providing
topics that range from technical to recreational.  We support any
computer type.  Downloads are free, membership is free.  To maintain
the "free" it would be nice to be able to get a modest dial-up UUCP
without additional cost.  We have full capacity to be able to provide
full news but will gladly limit it to maintain practical limits.
We would like to  offer usenet to those not fortunate enough to have
Internet access.  Topics will be voted upon by users.  Please e-mail
my below address for info or if you know of some kind soul willing to.
help.  Thanks in advance.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------      
Keith Ledig   ree88132@zach.fit.edu         [Tech-Forum BBS 407-722-4400]
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
From: cblaise@moose.uvm.edu.UUCP (Chris Blaise)
Subject: Re: TBBS is very limited
Originator: cblaise@moose.uvm.edu
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 19:30:09 GMT

From article <Bu4At9.F6E@gator.rn.com>, by larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder):
> rjus@uonline.com (ren_just) writes:
> 
>>bulletin board systems for corporations and TBBS with TDBS packs a powerful
>>punch.  These corporations could care less about usenet, fidonet and what
> 
> At an expensive price it is a very limited option with no support
> for external third party non eSoft approved applications
> 

	This is untrue.  Save for a few, specific options (ie. the TIMS
mailer), there is plenty of third party products for both TBBS in
the form of utility programs, and also in the form of online programs
under TDBS.  Like the original poster said, many corporations and businesses
don't care about external networks.  TBBS with TDBS offers much of
what these companies (and many of us BBS operators) want, which is
data management that is both standardized in formats (dBaseIII+) and can
be easily mantained.
 
 TTYL
 Chris
From: pbohannon@npal.rn.com
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: Galacticom
Date: 13 Sep 92 10:30:14 GMT
Organization: PalNet -- Indianapolis, Indiana

In article <memo.620645@cix.compulink.co.uk>, pands@cix.compulink.co.uk (P & S Ltd - Accounts Dept) writes:
> Does anyone have a contact for,  or information about Galacticom?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> --------------------------< Who 'zat >-----------------------------------
>     Paul Wilson,  P-and-S Ltd, P O Box 54, Macclesfield, SK10 5EH, UK
>                      pands@cix.compulink.co.uk
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
From: otto@tukki.jyu.fi (Otto J. Makela)
Subject: Re: Fidonet sux, fee for access. (was Sad to say...)
Organization: The Crimson Permanent Assurance Company
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 12:35:02 GMT

In article <Pc5oqB1w165w@buscard.fidonet.org> murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy) writes:
   I was amused to find how dogmatic that network can be with their own
   politics.

The dogmatism is hardly suprising, with a net consisting of Fidos.
-- 
   /* * * Otto J. Makela <otto@jyu.fi> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */
  /* Phone: +358 41 613 847, BBS: +358 41 211 562 (V.32bis/USR-HST,24h/d) */
 /* Mail: Kauppakatu 1B18/SF-40100 Jyvaskyla/Finland, ICBM: 62.14N25.44E */
/* * * Computers Rule 01001111 01001011 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
From: hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Matt Hucke)
Subject: Re: WWIV..HA!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 17:44:38 GMT

In article <Steven_P._Oliver.038y@bearsden.UUCP> Steven_P._Oliver@bearsden.UUCP (Steven P. Oliver) writes:
>WWIV may not be cripple ware, but trying to get doors to run with it is
>next to impossible.  Using the Chain.txt file for a user information file,
>WWIV has locked itself into a groove where you MUST use software made JUST
>for WWIV or not use it at all.  I speak from having run WWIV, and the
>related problems.  IT is an easy to set up Software for BBS, but is very
>limited.

Wrong.  Most better doors support multiple file formats, including WWIV,
and utilities exist to convert CHAIN.TXT into any other format.  
-- 
What did Dan Quayle get on his IQ test? 
                                             Drool.
hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu             _V_a_l_h_a_l_l_a BBS, 217-352-3682, WWIV4.21, 14.4k
From: rjus@uonline.com (ren_just)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: TBBS is very limited
Date: 5 Sep 92 01:34:44 GMT
Organization: Just Computers!

larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes:
: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:
: 
: >Going back to what somebody else said (sorry, I forget who), I think
: >it's the case that when TBBS wants to run certain modules/whatever
: >(like handing incoming news) it needs to shut-down on-line operation.
: 
: Yes -- all of the lines must shut down in order to process usenet news.
: 
: So your 16 line BBS must go "off-hook" on all 16 lines to process news.
: Hmm -- just think - your news would be 24 hours old before leaving the
: system if you brought all 16 lines down once a day -- I can't imagine
: bringing all the lines down once an hour -- could you?
: 
: 
: -- 
: Larry Snyder                                    internet: larry@gator.rn.com
: keeper of the Gator                                  uucp: uunet!gator!larry

I am not sure what the beginning of this thread was all about, but not all
TBBS systems run news programs.  I am involved in the process of designing
bulletin board systems for corporations and TBBS with TDBS packs a powerful
punch.  These corporations could care less about usenet, fidonet and what
ever other nets there are.  The *DO* care about ease of use, reliability,
flexibility and somebody standing behind the product.
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: Sad to say...
Date: 11 Sep 92 08:41:28 GMT
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes:

>davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:

>>>or as pointed out earlier, you could run rfmail under UNIX
>>>to allow for direct support for fidonet under UNIX.  We at
>>>one time were running rfmail -- but after maybe 6 months decided
>>>fidonet wasn't worth the effort..

>>When you say it wasn't worth the effort, how come? Technical problems
>>like buggy programs? Network problems like uncooperative hosts?
>>Fight-o-Net social problems (like you often mention :-)

>we carried fidonet here originally to lure users from the local
>fidonet nodes (TBBS systems for the most part), but after those
>folks played with the usenet newsgroups and internet email, the
>fidonet interest stopped -- so we stopped the service

I see. Thanks for the information. One of the things I've learned
is there is Fidonet and FTN (Fido Technology Network). From what
you've said (especially before :-) I take it you are talking about
Fidonet with all the adminstrative and other considerations....

In any case, thanks for the information.

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
From: hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Matt Hucke)
Subject: Re: WWIV..HA!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 17:49:51 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.135008.26440@wixer.cactus.org> robert@wixer.cactus.org (Robert Cope) writes:
>>
>>Wrong.  Most better doors support multiple file formats, including WWIV,
>>and utilities exist to convert CHAIN.TXT into any other format.  
>
>Lets not forget the fact that when you register WWIV you get the source to it.
>Once you've got that, you can do just about anything you want to it, including
>putting in one of the mods that creates other types of door files...

Probably the simplest way to do it is have the bbs call a batch file
which runs the conversion program and then the door... standalone
conversion utilities are simple (I know a 13-year-old who writes them in
BASIC), and have the advantage of being distributable to those without
the source.

-- 
  "It begins here--an army--to bring sense to a world plagued by worse than
   thieves and murderers. This will be a good life... good enough."
             Bruce Wayne, "Batman: The Dark Knight Returns"
hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu             _V_a_l_h_a_l_l_a BBS, 217-352-3682, WWIV4.21, 14.4k
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
From: kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net (Michael P. Deignan)
Subject: Re: Coherent Re: The bogus Nixpub Posting
Organization: The Rhode Island Internet Systems Cooperative Network
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 10:40:40 GMT

richard@nacjack.gen.nz (Richard Vowles) writes:

>QNX is POSIX compatable, i.e it is more UNIX than UNIX itself. Of course,
>Nixpub is for these inferior UNIX systems, so QNX shouldn't be included.

QNX is, IMO, garbage. I've owned it. It sits on a shelf collecting dust now.
QNX will never be anything more than a little hackers OS.


>[A dedicated QNX person]

I feel sorry for you.

MD
-- 
--  Michael P. Deignan                      / Sex is hereditary. If your 
--  Domain: mpd@anomaly.sbs.com            /  parents never had it, chances 
--    UUCP: ...!uunet!rayssd!anomaly!mpd  /   are you won't either...
-- Telebit: +1 401 455 0347              /