From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: SCA geography (was: through a looking ...)
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:27:54 GMT

In article <uplink.724672373@cwis> uplink@cwis.unomaha.edu (Axel Rose) writes:
>	Of course, the followup from my perspective is, "If we can have
>people from non-European backgrounds, why can't we have personas from
>fictional backgrounds?"
>
>	I used to like the SCA, but I had this big problem with it: Why
>couldn't I come in as the character I wanted to be?  A few of my friends
>are this way too.  I originally wanted to come in as a character whose
>name was not period (spawned out of too many AD&D gaming sessions), and
>whose race was decidedly not human.  I was told, "NO."

I'd like to address these points together and--in the end--ask a few
questions that may help formulate some answers....

If the SCA permitted fictional characters or anything else made up out
of whole cloth--would the stated purposes of the SCA be furthered or
hindered?  For myslef, I think to do so does violence to the 'nature
of the game' that we are playing.  What you question asks is akin to
wanting to go the a Civil War reenactment and be Rhett Butler or to
use a machine gun because of the apparent developmental links between
to work of Gatling and later devices.  The SCA is rather weak on
coherence--we deal with a broad period of time and (as seen in some
recent threads) encompass nearly the entire world.  tretch those
limits much further and we might as well discard having *any* limits
and simply be the largest known costume party.

>	You have to understand.  For me, I'm doing good when I decide I
>can get into the silly costumes and play the Kingdom game.  But when I'm
>told that I can't do what I want to do, then it's time for me to start
>making trouble as a way to protest.  And making trouble is what I, and
>those previously mentioned friends, are very VERY good at.

I have no doubt that you are excellent at what you do--but is it
*appropriate* to do specific things within teh SCA context?  Would you
wear an SF convention costume on a job interview?  Or would you dress
in a way designed to conform to the expectations of the interviewer?

>	Aside from being a half-elven lord of swords, my close friend
>Calvin Aristan wanted to enter as a ninja.  He was told no, the ninja
>weren't period, he couldn't be one because he wasn't Asian, etc., etc.
>Calvin's got the skills necessary, but because his "ninja" skills are
>actually modern-day commando techniques, he was told he wasn't period.

Not knowing enough about the time period of the development of the
ninjas, I can't speak about whether or not they're period, but what
little I do know suggests that it's about the equivalent of walking
into an society ball and announcing oneself to be a jewel thief.  It
simply isn't considered (in cultural context) to be part of polite
society.

>	David Milner wanted to come in as another persona, the Silver
>Prince.  I can understand why some who had worked very hard to gain the
>actual SCA title of "Prince" would have felt angry at this newcomer's
>claim to the title.  But I hope that group understood when, after they
>told Dave to come up with a new name, and kicked him out when he didn't
>change, he got them evicted from a local public facility during an
>event.

Excuse me?  he came in claiming honors that have specific meaning in
the SCA (and are non-trivial to achieve), was asked not to do so, and
took revenge for after refusing to do so?  I suggest that reading
introductory SCA documents is in order.  Personnaly, I'd be inclined
to have a talk with whoever contracted to allow use of the site
('breach of contract' comes to mind) *and* think seriously about
asking the Board to start denial of membership proceedings.  Your
friends action is decidedly unfriendly.

Why should he expect to enter a group and claim honors that have
specific meanings?  Would he go to Britain and make the same claim?
Would he expect to be honored for it?

>	My point?  Maybe I don't have one.  Maybe I'm so frustrated at
>the SCA and the Kingdom game that I came online to rant & rave and see
>just how many people flame me.  (Go ahead, BTW: I haven't had a good
>laugh since Drizzt and I went at it a while back.)  Maybe I'd like to 
>know what makes the SCA so arrogant to push every other Medievalist
>group out of business?  (I don't know whether this is true or not.)

I hate to disappoint you, but flames are very rare in this forum.

I *think* the source of your frustration is due to expectations that
the SCA would be playing that did not turn out to be true.  If you
were to go gaming expecting an AD&D game and find Runequest!, you
might be disappointed.  I think if comes down to this:  What did you
*expect* the SCA to be like?  As an extension to this question--did
you ask anyone how the SCA 'plays the game' or read any of the SCAs
introductory documents ("Forward Into the Past" or "Known World
Handbook")?  The parallel question would be--would you complain about
the rules of a game being 'bad' or 'funny' or 'incomprehensible' if
you hadn't read them?

To the best of my knowledge, the SCA makes no effort to pressure any
other Medievalist organization.  The only major contact (that I  know
of) between the SCA and other groups is Pennsic War--and that is an
SCA event.  At an *SCA* event, visitors are expected to conform to SCA
rules and norms.  If an SCA member attended an event run by some other
organization, I would expect him to conform to *their* rules and
norms.  Such behavior is simple courtesy.  Indeed, I would expect to
treat a visitor from another group with the same respect and deference
his titles would get him within the SCA--but if he *joined* the SCA,
he would have to set those titles aside and play by our rules.

>	If you want to know who I am, I was a member of the Barony of
>Lonely Tower for quite some time (although I never really understood
>just quite what I had to do to get ahead in the SCA... no one would 
>ever tell me).  I won't tell you my mundane name or my Society name,
>just be satisfied with the name of the role I play now:

I find this statement puzzling.  You've been complaining that the SCA
does things that you and your friends don't like.  Okay, I can
understand that.  The SCA is not trying to please the world.  Your
statement here suggests that you haven't taken the time to learn the
rules of this particular game--which makes a complaint that you're not
getting anywhere in it rather odd.  If you don't know the ground
rules, how do *expect* to get anywhere?  

The SCA does not award levels or skill percentage checkpoints.  It is
*not* an RPG in the accepted sense of those terms.  It is--to varying
degrees--a group of people genuinely interested in the Middle Ages and
it rewards people for actually *doing* things.  I suggest that your
problems with the Society stem more from not reading the 'rules of the
game' than from there being any particular problem with the rules or
the game.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
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