From: swann@acsu.buffalo.edu (Stephen Swann)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Experience points for roleplaying (was Re: Levels )
Date: 16 Aug 92 22:53:53 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <1992Aug16.101850.3175@eng.cam.ac.uk> yt1@eng.cam.ac.uk (Y. Tremblay) writes:
>>As for "tangible" reward (if you don't consider enjoyment and satisfaction
>>in playing to be tangible rewards), then there's the fact that they learn
>>lots of valuable information and gain helpful allies, which make them much
>>more "powerful", in the sense of being knowledgeable and having lots of
>>influence and political leverage.  Good information can be just as powerful
>>a weapon as a +5 flaming sword.
>
>   However, this logic can be applied for combat too.  If by killing Ultra-
>Super-Villain they get his +5 flaming sword and all this gold.  They 
>shouldn't get any experience points since they already got an reward. ?!?

Well, frankly, I don't give experience as a kind of "award for 
meritorious action" or anything like that.  I just give them out when
a character has exercised his combat skills in a stressful situation,
which makes him more practiced, and thus on the road to being better
at it.

>   In another article, Tom Bruno wrote :
>"I always envisioned 'experience points' as a mesure of a person, not
>just of his skill in the battle and spellcraft..."
>
>   This is the way I see experience points.  Your view are more that it is
>only (almost) related to fighting skills.  I agree that AD&D tends to link 
>it more with combat abilities since most of the abilities of PCs are 
>design for combat but what about non-weapon proficiencies or thief skills.

I basically say that the thief must practice his skills to maintain
them.  What I'd really like to do is make all non-combat skills,
including thief skills, part of a generalized skill system.  But
anyway, I do give thieves XP for utilizing their thieving skills.
Just like I give Wizards XP for utilizing their Wizardry in a
non-combat fashion.  But I don't give XP for plot solving that doesn't
involve the direct exercise of some character class skill.

>In another hand, I think characters are suppose to practice during their 
>free time and so become better. (Isn't it written somewhere with when they 
>sharpen swords, etc.)  Some systems give points for that (e.g. ArsM)  (Here
>we are risking to start a discussion about skill vs class/level based) 

You're damn right we're risking that!  :-)  So, who's got the first
comment on THAT particular hot topic?

>new NWP.  Do you give XPs to a mage that use ESP to gather information ?
>By doing so, he certainly learn how to better read minds !?

Yes, I do.

>>Well, suppose you could make all the money you needed freelancing as
>>an independant contractor, and could have the rest of your time free
>
>   Given that you say they get up a level only every 7-8 months, I would
>say they are almost starving of XP.  (Like if as an independant contractor
>I get only $1000 a year and go around the world).  Maybe they should think 
>about working a bit more :-)  Well, depends of everyone needs (or taste)
>one can live with four thousands bucks... as long as one's never known more...

Aw, hey, they've known more, trust me.  :-)  We've all had campaign
worlds before, it's just that mine is the only one that has lasted for
12 years.  I can think offhand of at least 10 or a dozen campaigns
that I've played in with this same group of friends.  I'm actually
not the stingiest DM in my group, because even though I don't believe
in handing out huge numbers of XP, at least I don't believe that
magic should be rarer than hen's teeth.  :-)  I remember one campaign
where we had a bunch of 4th level fighters who had never seen a
magic sword.  ;-)

>>Maybe I'm spoiled, and I -do- just have incredible players, who really
>
>   Can you lent me a few ones ?

If I could figure out to clone 'em, I could probably make a killing
selling 'em.  :-)

>>-forgot- to give them experience points for killing a "true" dragon
>>(a beast that makes a monster manual dragon look like a jackrabbit).
>
>   Are you talking of 1st or 2nd edition dragons ?  Unless you give the
>party a dragonlance (or two...), a 2nd edition middle aged dragon will
>kill most of the party up to 8-9th level and 6 characters _if_ played
>intelligently.  If it is not enough, just put a very old red one...
>E-mail me a description if you can. 

Might as well post the basics, and you can decide if you care to hear
more.  Have you ever seen the lead figure "Draco Dracorum"? (sp?)  I
think it was by Ral Partha.  Anyway, if you haven't seen it, it was a
"european" (as opposed to oriental) dragon, about 2 feet long,
including tail, and about 6 inches high at the shoulder, and about 8
or 8 1/2 inches high at the ears.  Now consider that as if it were on
the same size scale as your typical adventuring lead figures.  I gave
it a thousand hit points, and required a +5 weapon in combination with
some kind of giant strength potion to punch through its physical armor
(very much like battleship plating).  It was also an arch-mage (18th
level) wizard, with a 19 intelligence.  Fortunately for the party, (1)
it was somewhat distracted when they attacked it, because it had just
been freed from a stasis cage that had imprisoned it for millenia, and
(2) the party had a "little bit of assistance".  It still managed to
kill most of the people in the party, plus half of their "backup", but
that's their fault.  The sages warned them what would happen if they
released it.  :-)

>BTW Steve, part of the quotations were by Sea Wasp, you should have
>left his name in the heading. (no offense intended)

Yeah, I'm kind of a haphazard attribution trimmer, I usually am only
thinking of the actual text, not who wrote it.  :-)

-- 
Steve Swann                 |    Speak to me in many voices; make
swann@acsu.buffalo.edu      |      them all sound like one...  -BOC