HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dbshapco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Brad Shapcott)
Subject: Re: 'women's' vs 'lesbian'
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 03:50:31 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.194449.17125@rat.csc.calpoly.edu> cjohnson@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Coe Salzgeber) writes:
>
>(2) A woman (if she likes men at all) will unfailingly drop her 
>female friends to be with a man. 
>
>(3) All she needs is the right man to make$her forget about women totally.

In the brief reading I put in on the subject this term (the University Library
is sadly lacking in this subject) it seems that both male and female bisexuals
form stronger emotional bonds with other females.

This was a real issue to me, because both my wife and I are bisexual, and she
has a smoldering interest in another woman that pre-dates our six year
relationship.  But I think one of the ingredients that makes me feel secure
is how comfortable *I* am with this, and that I accept that this relation
may be at times more important to Suzanne than ours.  What is important to
me is her level of commitment to me, and not what she is doing outside of that.

>In analytic mode today,

And hopefully wildly hedonistic and lost in passion tomorrow.  A clinical view
is nice if taken in small doses from a distance (say, 300 yards).

>-Coe


Brad
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: orc@vpnet.chi.il.us (david parsons)
Subject: Re: Drummers
Organization: Department of Atomic Text Units
Distribution: soc.bi
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 12:49:57 GMT

In article <23904@castle.ed.ac.uk> sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing) writes:
|How about a juggling pianist?

  You juggle pianos?
                __
  david parsons \/ orc@vpnet.chi.il.us
From: gtoal@gem.stack.urc.tue.nl (Graham Toal)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Electronic Matchmaker
Date: 28 Jul 92 19:59:27 GMT
Reply-To: gtoal@stack.urc.tue.nl
Organization: MCGV Stack, Eindhoven University of Technology, the Netherlands

In article <Bs2r19.ALn@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> dbshapco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Brad Shapcott) writes:
>Graham, in feeling that he has missed out some flaming, feels a sudden urge
>to create some heat of his own.

Precisely.  Doesn't half do you good to have a good bitch with your friends
when you're in a foul mood...

G
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Subject: When you Meet a Lesbian: Hints for Heterosexual Women
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:24:20 GMT


The following appeared in a college magazine a while back.

----cut here----
		When you Meet a Lesbian: Hints for Heterosexual Women
		-----------------------------------------------------


 1. Do not run screaming from the room. This is rude.

 2. If you must back away, do so slowly and with discretion.

 3. Do not assume she is attracted to you.

 4. Do not assume she is _not_ attracted to you.

 5. Do not assume you are not attracted to her.

 6. Do not expect her to be as excited about meeting a heterosexual as
    you may be about meeting a lesbian. (She was probably raised with
    them.)

 7. Do not immediately start talking about your boyfriend or husband in
    order to make it clear that you are straight. She probably already
    knows.

 8. Do not ask her how she got this way. Instead, ask yourself how you
    got that way.

 9. Do not assume that she is dying to talk about being a lesbian.

10. Do not expect her to refrain from talking about being a lesbian.

11. Do not trivialise her experience by assuming that it is a
    bedroom-only issue.

12. Do not assume that because she is a lesbian she wants to be treated
    like a man.

13. Do not assume that her heart will leap for joy if you touch her arm
    condesendingly. That will probably make her angry.
----cut here----


<> "Faggot" and "homo" have joined "queer" in my handbag of reclaimed
<> words. By the time I'm done, the bigots, unable to get a rise out of
<> me with queer or fag or homo or cocksucker, will be reduced to
<> screaming "You fan of show tunes, you!"
<> --- Eric Holeman (waveland@milton.u.washington.edu)

Ciaran.
-- 
Ciaran McHale                                                             ----
Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.       \bi/
Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-772204 email: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie \/
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: grinch@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Dave Ferguson)
Subject: The Resurrection of the Grinch
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC., Orleans (Ont)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 22:48:09 GMT

*BOUNCE*
*BOUNCE*
*BOUNCE*

HI GANG!!!!  

I'm back to my perky self again, so I just thought I'd post so y'all can
start getting some restful nights again.

Last night I more than doubled my social circle.  I decided to take a pro-
active move and sit in on a Pink Triangle Youth meeting.  It was incredible.
The people there were around my age, and very friendly...some were *very*
friendly...  In my first night, I got invited to a movie night, coffee house,
brunch, and a "slut weekend" in Montreal.  And people say Ottawa is uptight...

In our "newcomers'" discussion group, we were all talking about coming out.
Being the adventurous sort, I decided to throw in the "b-word", just to see
how the reaction would be.  I told them that I initially came out as bi, then
gay, then bi again, and now I'm not sure (but don't really care).  As soon 
as I said that, a "hot bi chick" (who happens to go to the University of
Toronto, my alma mater) said that she enjoyed having sex with her boyfriend,
yet was attracted to women, and that she felt excluded from both the gay and
the straight communities.  All I could say was "I hear ya, sister!!"

Anyway, I don't want to bore y'all, so I won't blab on about my evening.  
I just wanted to say I'm back.  Thanks to everyone who sent e-pick-me-ups...
they really helped a lot.  

Until I post again...

Daemon -- as bouncy and mouthy as ever











-- 
+ D.C.X. Ferguson, "Daemon"          Industry, Science & Technology Canada   +
+ grinch@micor.ocunix.on.ca          Policy Sector                           +
+                                    Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA                 +
+        No tax dollars were expended to bring you this message              +
From: sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: The Party
Keywords: Phwar! phew lick slurp snog hug wow
Date: 22 Jul 92 21:19:27 GMT
Organization: News Addicts

angi@festival.ed.ac.uk (Angi Lamb) writes:

>I had such a nice time at the party. For those who wish it:

>        / *teddy-bear*hug*      \

Can I have this one please?

Sara
-- 
 >{8-)     Sara Hopkins     (-8}<              _____^__
 Geography Dept.  Edinburgh Uni.  Drummond St. \ OOO/ / The Thing
 Edinburgh,  EH8  9XP,  UK. +44 (0/31) 650 2662 \++/ /   From
 >{8-) sara@geovax.ed.ac.uk (-8}<                \/\/ The Swamp
From: julie@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Marraige and Apartheid
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:45:41 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <1992Jul29.192503.8455@HQ.Ileaf.COM>, mhk@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Mark Kaepplein x1517) writes:
> 	"Until stricter clean-air laws are passed, I'm not going to breathe.
> 	Any *real* environmentalist would do the same."
> 
> If that strikes you as silly, then why is everyone's knickers in a knot
> over bi's getting married?  If you want to marry a motos, go ahead.
> Refusing to do so isn't going to gain much attention.
> 
> Mark - live and let live

The reason I object to _anyone_ engaging in a state-sponsored marraige
involving one individual who is male and one who is female (regardless
of their sexual orientation) is akin to the reason I object to being a
member of a racially segregated club.  By participating in a system in
which you allow the government to validate _your_ relationship while
it is still unwilling to validate other legimitate relationships
indicates to me that you do not care about my rights.  Not enough,
anyway, to demonstrate any sort of genuine committment to them.

Your "analogy" to clean-air acts is silly and seems intended to
belittle and make fun of a viewpoint which I take very seriously.  I
object to this simply because it's typical tactic of someone who is
more interested in poking fun and amusing themselves at the expense of
others' than someone who has any concern for genuine change.  "Live
and let live" is bullshit when you apply it to Apartheid, AIDS,
Homophobia, the KKK and Rape.  And it's bullshit when you apply it
here.  Marraige as an institution is nothing more than legalized anti-
gay Apartheid and if you can not be bothered to make the smallest
effort to remove blantantly homophobic situations from your own life
than you are useless for trying to remove them from the world at
large.

If one person refuses to get married it will not be heard.  If one
thousand people as a group announce that they are rejecting marraige
and are unwilling to make use of an unfair and discriminatory system
in order to gain special privelidges for themselves, however, I can
guarantee you that someone will take notice.

--Julie
                                                                                
--------------------------------------------------------------------            
 "Naturally the common people don't want war... but after all it is             
the leaders of a country who determine policy, and it is always a               
simple matter to drag the people along...  All you have to do is tell           
them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of            
patriotism and exposing the country to danger."                                 
                                                                                
                          -- Hermann Goering, 1936                              
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: dbshapco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Brad Shapcott)
Subject: Re: The War Between Us (Long)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:18:10 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.020745.18413@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) writes:
>In article <1992Jul27.191248.12652@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
>>
>>Ry,
>>
>>If your *BIG* *RED* *PUMPS* are causing you pain then why don't you take
>>them off and relax your feet rather than post crap to the net.
>
>Ciaran, dearest, The issue is real, the presentation I read as a whine.
>The "sexual minority" community (whatever label you happen to pick) is
>full of things that divide us: race, sex, S/M,  Bi, strayt, whatever.
>So?  There is overlap, and we can work from there, but that's all.  If
>you, or any other bi wants not to identify as queer, that's fine, but
>to expect the gay community to pretend there is complete overlap on issues
>and that we're all one is an insult to both of us.  Its like me complaining
>that I can't call myself a lesbian because I don't happen to be female
>and because I get male priviledge.  I *DO* get male priviledge.  That
>seperates us.  I get white priviledge, that seperates me from queer people
>of color.  You acknowledged the difference in the creation of soc.bi.
>So why no complain about the reality of the difference?
>
>Let me repeat myself: Bis get strayt priviledge.  It doesn't matter that
>you didn't ask for it.  I didn't ask for white male priviledge, society
>gave it to me, and I can't give it back.  Acknowledge the reality, think
>about it, and move on, rather than complaining. 
>
>There are things that divide us.  That is not our weakness; that is our
>strength.
>
>Ry Schwark
>ry@usl.com

Ry, what really suprises me is that while taking a dig at me previously you
just repeated what I was trying to say.  And I didn't so much try to whine as
put it on a personal level, where I really gave a *damn* about what I was
saying.  I had another post that I worked on that said the same thing without
saying anything about me, that I threw out as so much crap.

Please re-read.  I'm inclined to think that since others in soc.bi and
soc.motss heard the message, that perhaps you misconstrue me.


Brad
Xref: sparky soc.bi:9645 soc.motss:32723
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
Subject: Re: The War Between Us (Long)
Date: 28 Jul 92 02:07:45 GMT
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ

In article <1992Jul27.191248.12652@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
>
>Ry,
>
>If your *BIG* *RED* *PUMPS* are causing you pain then why don't you take
>them off and relax your feet rather than post crap to the net.

Ciaran, dearest, The issue is real, the presentation I read as a whine.
The "sexual minority" community (whatever label you happen to pick) is
full of things that divide us: race, sex, S/M,  Bi, strayt, whatever.
So?  There is overlap, and we can work from there, but that's all.  If
you, or any other bi wants not to identify as queer, that's fine, but
to expect the gay community to pretend there is complete overlap on issues
and that we're all one is an insult to both of us.  Its like me complaining
that I can't call myself a lesbian because I don't happen to be female
and because I get male priviledge.  I *DO* get male priviledge.  That
seperates us.  I get white priviledge, that seperates me from queer people
of color.  You acknowledged the difference in the creation of soc.bi.
So why no complain about the reality of the difference?

Let me repeat myself: Bis get strayt priviledge.  It doesn't matter that
you didn't ask for it.  I didn't ask for white male priviledge, society
gave it to me, and I can't give it back.  Acknowledge the reality, think
about it, and move on, rather than complaining. 

There are things that divide us.  That is not our weakness; that is our
strength.

Ry Schwark
ry@usl.com
From: db@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Dave Berry)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Bi Edinburgh (was Re: Another newcomer...)
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:54:57 GMT
Reply-To: db@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Dave Berry)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing) writes:
>The solution is obvious - move to Edinburgh!!!  [...]  I
>do believe that I know less straight folk than otherwise these days. 

Yes - I'm moving to Cambridge at the beginning of September, and it's
going to be odd leaving the bisexual community here in Edinburgh.  I think
that over half my friends are bisexual, and the rest are supportive --
and I have quite a lot of friends.  Most of the lesbian and gay organisations
in Edinburgh are bi-friendly, even if some of their members aren't.  These
days I find it odd when I come across biphobia from lesgay organisations
-- I tend to think "How quaint!" or "I wonder if all lesbians and gays
in London are living in a time-warp?".

There are other things I shall miss of course -- our flat, my non-bi friends,
(including Di, who is staying up here to write up her th*s*s), having time
to post lots of messages to soc.bi, hills, the fact that Edinburgh is such
a good place to live anyway -- but the bisexual group and friends is a
major factor.  I dealt with accepting my bisexuality here, with running
conferences, working on the phoneline, being interviewed by the press,
and finally coming out to my family.

In Cambridge I shall have to deal with coming out to people at my new job,
at the gay pub, and at any other groups that I join.  I plan to do this
by wearing T-shirts and badges, and not putting up with any shit.  I'm
willing to talk about it with people, but not to compromise.

One good thing about the move is that I'll be sharing a house with Alex.
Having at least one good friend around will make everything else *much*
easier.  And of course there are other people on soc.bi, and a Cambridge
bisexual group, who I'm looking forward to meeting.  And I'll be nearer
the Oxford and Coventry people, as well.  The bisexual movement is a
wonderful thing.

Dave.
--

                 The Wind Blowing Through The Willow                    2/15
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Ireland Party (was Re: Muffin Alert!)
From: dsolis@koko.csustan.edu (Djelrik Solis)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 23:53:46 GMT
Organization: CSU Stanislaus

In article <01010066.9r4bl3@unicorn.resun.com> chris@unicorn.resun.com writes:

>Chris is now convinced that you have never been to Escondido.  The only
>type of gatherings we have here are agricultural or mercentile.  :-)


Um, maybe the "Carrot Queen" ceremonies?

Okay, I give up.  You're right, I've never been to Escondido. :)

_____________________
Djelrik
From: cliveg@cix.compulink.co.uk (Clive Grace)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: The Party
Date: 21 Jul 92 15:13:00 GMT
Reply-To: cliveg@cix.compulink.co.uk


Tanaqui Writes:
Tanaqui! Great to see you back on the net. Hope you're doing well?
> Clive burbles..
>> but who'se going to break the stories? spread the dirt?
>>I think we need to design a roadmap to work out who was with
>> whom... and when... and how... using what.
>Well, I know some of what/whom and even, later, with what you 
>were doing..
>Tanaqui, winking at Iseult in party-provocative mode  
I bet you do.
(floor shows R us)
From: fenthe@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Lycra
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:54:36 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club


 Weeell.. Anyone who's interested in this, alt.lycra is currently proposed in
alt.config. If there's any interest, pleeeeeeezzzzee show it.. <grin> 

 -- Fenthe
From: pclary@carrot.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: 'women's' vs 'lesbian'
Date: 30 Jul 92 01:33:06 GMT
Organization: Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, CA - aka Barnum & Bailey

sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing) wrote...
>iw@tosser.Rational.COM (Iseult White) writes:
>
>>I don't know about the het men, alls I know is that this hot bi babe
>>is terribly turned on my the thoughts of two womem  :-)
>
>Well yes, this particular horny hot bi babe is also rather turned on bi
>the thought of two (or more!) women .. oh dear, does this mean that I'm
>not considering the real people behind this fantasy?  Doesn't *feel*
>like that to me ...

Well.
So much for getting anymore work done today.
My mind has become throughly distracted with wonderous, errrrr... visions.

<sigh>
Ellen
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: keithd@stallion.oz.au (Keith Duddy)
Subject: NOT making waves (at work)
Organization: Stallion Technologies
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 10:45:11 GMT
Summary: coming out sans pink triangles
Keywords: coming out


Just as I was contemplating Kimberly's brave move to wear a pink
triangle T-shirt to work I received the gift of a perfect coming out
opportunity from a co-worker. After an initial fumble I seized it with
both hands [oops sports analogy] and ran with the ball.

A woman in my programming team was giving a friend of hers relationship
counselling over the phone (I think it was the same friend who she's
given advice to before, and thanks to our open plan office the
exlamations of "he said WHAT?" , "He did WHAT?" etc were perfecly 
audible...) Anyway I suspect that this time the advice became "drop 
him and I'll set you up with a *nice boy*" - I'm not sure - I wasn't 
listening in - UNTIL I suddenly got a barrage of questions asked to me 
accross the 6 metre distance between our desks (past 2 others with people 
at them and maybe within earshot of all the desks on the other side of 
the partition.)

"When were you born?" 
- " 12 am, 17th of October '67"

[Other astrological info (I suppose) was requested]

[A description of me - which concentarted on my hair (they always do -
ho hum) follows]

"Keith have you got a girlfriend?"
- "No" [Fumble here, as I didn't interject about my male bonk-buddy]

[A little more conversation to the friend ensues]

"Are you available?"
- "No" [Picked up the ball with a falsehood - I'm readily available,
although perhaps not to that particular woman, who doesn't appear to
much of a grip on relationship management - something that I consider
quite important.]

"huh?????"
- "You neglected to ask me if I have a boyfriend." [Another falsehood,
as I have never described him as my boyfriend, but it made the point.]

I suspect that this was not heard outside the 4 aforementioned desks,
but I went to lunch with the 2 guys at the other 2 of them and although
the subject was not raised I noted a very friendly air (perhaps even
friendlier than usual.) 

Today an interchange of short mail messages went back and forwards
between my female co-worker and I (subject: "gay?" to which the first
response was - "no, bi" and a bit more) and we discussed my wishes that
she spread this information as widely as she likes (It's always easier
when you have a dedicated band of friendly outers), and did plenty of
mutual backpatting about honesty, openness etc.

I wonder how long I'll have to wait for another golden opportunity like
that.

Keith
---
\\\\\                                                                   /////
////                   keith duddy - slave to the rhythm                 \\\\
\\\  stallion technologies - 56 sylvan rd, toowong, qld 4066, australia   ///
//     ph              fx                 mail                 uunet       \\
\+61-7-870-4999  +61-7-371-8881  keithd@stallion.oz.au  uunet!staltec!keithd/
From: gtoal@gem.stack.urc.tue.nl (Graham Toal)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Edinburgh Party Photos
Date: 23 Jul 92 01:20:44 GMT
Reply-To: gtoal@stack.urc.tue.nl
Organization: MCGV Stack, Eindhoven University of Technology, the Netherlands

In article <1992Jul22.211837.11657@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver) writes:
>oooh, you can't gif this up. I dunno, do a favour for a friend & one's 
>reputation is once more being sacrificed. (Yes, yes, OK, mirrors are an
>affectation...)

Oh, for anyone who's interested (don't get trampled in the rush, guys)
I believe there's a gif of me in Boston on ftp.msstate.edu somewhere
in the hierarchy.  I think there's a 'gifs', 'words-l' and 'docs'
somewhere in the path to it, not necessarily in that order.  I haven't
seen it myself yet.  I wouldn't have offered a picture for the net
myself but someone put this up and it isn't worth the hassle to
get rid of it.  I'll submit graciously for once.  Still doesn't mean
I like having my picture taken though :-| ...

G
From: nigel@isgtec.com (Nigel Burnett)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Ireland Party (was Re: Muffin Alert!)
Date: 28 Jul 92 22:23:25 GMT
Organization: ISG Technologies Inc., Mississauga Ontario

In article <24156@castle.ed.ac.uk> sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing) writes:
> ELAINE@brownvm.brown.edu (Elaine M. Brennan) writes:
> 
> >I'll be in San Francisco August 6 through 10.


Please if anybody is heading from over 'ome to the west coast or
vice versa, they're welcome to stop and say hi in person.

I can promise hugs and very good coffee!

Nigel


--
"It is an infantile superstition of the human spirit that virginity would be
thought a virtue and not the barrier that separates ignorance from knowledge"                                                                       Voltaire
Nigel Burnett:  business: 3030 Orlando Dr., Mississauga, Ont.,  416-672-2100
Send e-mail to nigel@isgtec.com, uunet.ca!isgtec!nigel, or nigel@isgtec.UUCP