HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eraffini@lab3.smcm.edu (Eric Raffini)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Freedom yachts for the physically handicapped
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:29:37 GMT
Reply-To: eraffini@oyster.smcm.edu

This past summer I began teaching a 14 year old boy who was paralyzed from  
the waist down how to sail aboard a Freedom 21? I believe it was either a  
21 or a 22. Anyhow, the boat was specially modified to accomodate people  
who face this challenge. I am very interested in talking to anyone who has  
ever sailed these as I am looking for new idea for next summer. I believe  
that there is a fleet in Rhode Island. If you know of anything about this  
boat, please respond to eraffini@oyster.smcm.edu
Thanks alot
Eric
From: bsmith@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Smith)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:31:36 GMT
Subject: Re: J/24 Worlds?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: rec.boats

In rec.boats, EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans) writes:

    Not so long ago, someone asked if renaming a boat was bad luck.  We
    now seem to have one more data point.  (I, thinking that all this
    "bad luck" stuff was a lot of nonsense went and named my 17 year old
                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    boat--previously unnamed as far as I know--last week; so far, no
    data either way :-))

Be careful!  Maybe it is all nonsense after all--but I'd be careful
if I were you:-)
B.S! 
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mwhhlaw!tim (Timothy E. Hollingsworth)
Subject: Re: boat drinks
Reply-To: uunet!mwhhlaw!tim
Organization: Martin Wade Hartley & Hollingsworth
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 12:15:48 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.110937@is.morgan.com> scairns@is.morgan.com (Scott  
Cairns) writes:

[stuff on the origin of "grog" omitted]

> to the cloak that the Admiral who issued the order wore.  It's in a book I'm 
> reading on the British Virgin Islands (where I'm headed next week!) on the  
origin
> of Pusser's Rum.

Where, if you are lucky, you can try a "pain killer" which we renamed a "brain  
killer."  You can try this at home:

In an blender mix:

ice
couple of oz's of Pusser's
couple of oz of unsweatened pineapple juice
one oz of orange juice
one tablespoon of coconut cream
blend
pour in glass
top with just a splash of Pusser's and freshly grated nutmeg

This drink explains why one of my sailing buddies carrries a 12 volt blender  
and fresh numeg on his Catalina 25.

--
Tim Hollingsworth
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski)
Subject: Re: Coyote spotted, no sign of Mike Plant
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 00:02:04 GMT

 Lauri Tarkkonen writes:

>If it is true that the bulb has fallen of, this is again a proof
>of stupid and unseamanlike design and engineering.
>...
>If we have racing rules and measurement rules, then why cant 
>they have scantlings that demand integrity of parts like keels.
>...

I saw a picture of Coyote's underbody and, like you, I was struck
by what appeared to be a risky design. My final judgement, however, is
different from yours. What I saw was a flat-out racing machine, not
a family cruiser. Nowadays, anyone who wants to win a drag
race across the ocean is going to put together a device that is just
inside the disaster envelope, and then sail it balls-to-the-wall.
What on Earth is wrong with that? A Formula-1 race car is
unsafe for street use, but that's the name of the game: trading
off risk for performance. The fact that the keel fell off does
not mean that the designer is "stupid". It simply means that when
Nature rolled the dice, the skipper's number came up - a risk he
knew he was taking. Winning the race meant that much to him. Not
to you - to him.

You say that they should have heavier scantlings. Who is "they"?
Should the U.S. Congress pass a law that forbids radical boat
designs? Should the Race Committee run computer codes to determine
strength and stability? Who is to stop people from organizing
no-holds-barred races? You? Me? The Police? Noone is being forced 
to compete in these races!

I think you would have a better case if you were to criticize the
racers for hitting up the taxpayers for the rescue effort. I'm
personally sceptical about some of the numbers I see. After all, 
the C130s fly anyway, and it's good practice for the Coast Guard.

A case could perhaps be made that unsafe designs somehow find their
way into commercial boats. That is a real problem, but it won't be
solved by putting restraints on people who get their jollies
by risking their necks. I say - let 'em sail!

Stefan
From: bennett@erich.triumf.ca (P.Bennett)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Being on the water...
Followup-To: rec.boats
Date: 16 Nov 1992 21:38 PST
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: erich.triumf.ca
Keywords: zinc
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <BxtI1A.M0G@apollo.hp.com>, burati@apollo.hp.com (Michael Burati) writes...

>ps: Went down to cover the boat for the winter yesterday.  Made me yearn to be
>    out on the water more than anything :-(

I was out on the water yesterday, running a race for the local Cal-20 fleet.
Was a nice day but very little wind....

(All this talk of zincs, head gaskets, etc, reminds me of maintenance checks
that I should do, but fortunately, I forget about it by the time I get to the
boat  ;-)  )

Peter Bennett VE7CEI                | Vessels shall be deemed to be in sight
Internet: bennett@erich.triumf.ca   | of one another only when one can be
Bitnet:   bennett@triumfer          | observed visually from the other
TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., Canada     |                          ColRegs 3(k)

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: dwl@watson.ibm.com (David W. Levine)
Subject: Re: Solo Sailor Missing
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 04:50:43 GMT
Reply-To: dwl@watson.ibm.com 
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Center
Keywords: Mike Plant

In article <1992Nov18.023157.4425@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu>,
dbyrne@ldgo.columbia.edu (deirdre byrne) writes:
|> This from the NY Times today (courtesy of Will Howard):
|> 
|> "Four days of intensive searching have failed to turn up
|> any signs of Mike Plant."
|> 
|> A summary of the basic facts:
|> 
|> |His departure was from New York on Oct 16.
|> |
|> |On Oct 27, the Canadian Coast Guard received a weak transmission
|> |from his EPIRB.
|> |
|> |It was not until November 12 that the signal was linked
|> |to Coyote.
|> |
|> |The search is being conducted in the area northeast of
|> |Bermuda, with two USCG C-130 prop planes covering roughly 15000 
|> |square miles in the process.
|> |
|> |The US Navy is also expected to get involved in the search effort.
|> 
|> 
|> This doesn't sound good to me.
|> 
|> 
|> ------------------------------------------------------------------
|> "There are more things in    dbyrne@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu  
|> Heaven and Earth, Horatio,   Deirdre Byrne
|> than are dreamt of           202-A Oceanography  
|> in your philosophy."         Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory
|>                              Palisades, NY 10964
|> Hamlet I, v, 166             (914) 359-2900 x545 
|> 

Further details, heard on WCBS (Yes, the radio, not very often you hear
about sailing of any sort by radio) the navy's now using several of thier
anti-submarine-warfare (ASW) planes to help in the search. 

From a little digging I've done, the weather looks to have been fairly
un-interesting, with the exception of a couple of cold fronts which
worked across the position the EPIRB report came in from at about the time
it came in (Not terribly strong ones, either) That's not all that 
meaningful, if the EPRIRB triggering was seperated in time from the
events that might have led to it, which isn't impossible if you consider
damage that compromised the boat, but left it floating for a while. What
would be surprising would be Mike getting caught surprised by this and
not triggering the EPIRB in a controlled way, which should have yielded
a strong signal, not the weak blip that was seen (heard? Detected?)

David W. Levine --  dwl@watson.ibm.com  -- IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Center
                   -- My Opinions, IBM's hardware. -- 
"Fanaticism consists in redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your
aim" - George Santayana
From: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Tuff Luff and other headstay foils
Date: 18 Nov 92 13:17:48 GMT
Reply-To: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Annapolis, MD

In rec.boats, dwl@watson.ibm.com (David W. Levine) writes:
>                                                                    We'll
>assume that the guys with hanks have a sharp crew and they drop the old jib,
>(With a few hanks off, the new jib hanked on under it) at helms a-lee, as the
>boat starts to tack. 30 seconds for the old jib to come sliding down, (I
>suspect              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>that's generous, but hey, we'll assume they guys are *good*) The boat's thru
>the other as the hanked on jib is still being hauled up, We'll give these guys
>about 30 seconds for the hoist (Again, these guys are good) At full hoist,
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>the jib trimmer and his tailer can start taking sheet tension, which
>isn't going
>to be all that easy in any breeze, as the moment the sail starts drawing at
>all, the load is gonna be ugly, but again, good crew-work and we're in at
>trim in 30 seconds. It's that minute there, between old jib down and new
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

David--

     I can't argue with your times for your boat, but I can say for
a fact that my hanked jib previous boat, a 26 footer, took *far* less
time for these events... more like 15, 5 and 10 secs respectively with
one man at the bow and two in the cockpit.

Since my present boat (43') has a twin-groove furling system, I can't
say with any certainty what these times would be, but I would venture
that, with reasonable practice, two men on deck and three in the cockpit,
times of 25, 10 and 15 secs could be expected on smooth water.

In particular, I can't for the life of me see where all of your time
is going in the hoist... it just doesn't take that long!

Nor does trimming... but then we wouldn't wait for the full hoist to
start trimming.  That's five seconds right there.  :-)

-- Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert J. Hanners         "My comments; only mine."          *DIASTOLE* 676673
CD, NSWC, Annapolis, MD                              hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: STU@mwvm.mitre.org
Subject: Information wanted on Living Aboard Magazine
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 12:58:16 GMT

 
        Title:  Living Aboard Magazine
        Name:  Cindy Rossley (crossle1@cc.swarthmore.edu)
        Organization:  Swarthmore College
 
        Message:  I'm curious about the magazine "Living Aboard".  I
believe that several months back, during a discussion of what it is like
living on board a boat, one or two people suggested subscribing to this
magazine.
 
        Does anyone subscribe to this magazine? Is it worth the $20.00?
Are there any others that are better? worse?   How many issues do you get
and what type of articles are in there?
 
        Thanks in advance.  Please respond via e-mail (or post if you think
it would be helpful again).
 
        Cindy Rossley
        Swarthmore College
        crossle1@cc.swarthmore.edu
 
Cindy has temporarily lost the ability to post to rec.boats, thus the
different name.  I, also, am interested in the Living Aboard information
and would appreciate subscription information if someone could post.  /Stu
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: double headstay
Date: 20 Nov 1992 15:56:00 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu
Keywords: fun

John Curtis writes:

	Add two headsails and drop the main and you have a
	nice downwind rig, good under auto steering without
	significant potential for dangerous jibes.

Provided both sails are pointing backwards, that is, they are both
poled out well beyond the headstay. There's a good discussion of this
in John Letcher's book SELF-STEERING FOR SAILING CRAFT (International
Marine Publishing. Camden, ME). Actually, there's no real reason why
both sails could not be hanked on to a single headstay, providing the
hanks are sewn on staggered. Letcher single-handed many thousands of 
miles with duals on his two boats ISLAND GIRL and ALEUTKA. He also
has a nice history of dual rigs that includes descriptions of Otway
Waller's rig from 1930 (transAt crossing) and Wright Britton's Roller
Wings for DELIGHT on which he sailed with his wifein the North Atlantic.
He also mentions John Guzzwell's (TREKKA Around The World. Adlard Coles)
spinnaker + twins set-up.

							Fido

Newsgroups: rec.boats
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Need tips on winterizing an I/O
From: hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch)
Date: 16 Nov 92 15:00:58 MDT
Reply-To: hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch)
Distribution: world
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Nov11.201526.9104@tc.fluke.COM>, ness@tc.fluke.COM (Jerry Ness) writes:

Sorry folks I should have reply'd not followup'd.

stuff deleted

|>The pump
|>sat in the bucket with a couple gallons of 50/50 antifreeze mix and we just
|>started the engine and ran it 'til it came up to operating temperature to
|>make sure the thermostat had opened.

more stuff deleted

|>
|>Your mileage may vary but we are sure every place in the cooling system
|>is filled with a good mix of antifreeze.

Sounds a lot easier than what I did to my I/O, I'm interested.  BTW how do
you get the antifreeze out of the system before putting the boat back in
the water?
--
Hal Lynch

	US Mail:  Utah State University
	          Office of Computer Services
	          Logan, Utah 84322-4410
	Internet: Hal@cache.declab.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Subject: Re: Question about zinc...
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 12:30:40 GMT

In article <lgfpmoINN5q4@cronkite> billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Courington) writes:
>On the subject of zincs, my diver, a person of considerable 
>intelligence, experience and common sense, says that Mil. Spec. 
>zincs last noticeably longer than ordinary ones.  
>
>No, I don't know how to tell them apart--the part of the boat 
>that's underwater is his business.  But you might ask next 
>time you buy.

One answer is to check with the company's literature to see. But if you
can't get that (e.g., you're at the local shop getting a zinc two hours before
dropping in the water), the following information comes form the West Marine
Catalog: Canada Metals and Electro Guard both make zincs meeting the Mil-Spec,
which requires that .005% iron be present in the zinc. They also note that the
Electro-Guard zincs contain less cadmium, which means that they decay slower,
but are probably slightly less noble than the Canada Metals ones. 

-John
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: weber@jedi.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com (Kevin Weber)
Subject: Re: Mounting transducers with
Followup-To: rec.boats
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 18:54:26 GMT

In article <722058799.F00006@ship.wimsey.bc.ca>,
Dan.Hannah@f764.n153.z1.ship.wimsey.bc.ca (Dan Hannah) wrote:

> 2.      Locate (in the bilge) an unobstructed, out of the way area to
> mount the transducer.  The idea is that the transducer can look through
> fiberglass and silicone well, but not through core material, metal, etc.
> Clean
> area with alcohol or solvent.  Watch fumes and flammability!

I've mounted transducers through metal.  Specifically 0.083 inches of 5052
aluminum.  Any material which transmits sound waves efficiently will work,
and metal does that very well.

kevin
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jadams@vixen.cc.bellcore.com (adams,john)
Subject: Re: Question about zinc...
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 14:39:47 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.150734.16979@progress.com> gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras) writes:
>floydb@rpi.edu writes:
>
>>Is the pencil zinc considered a 'consumable' then? Is there a suitable
>>replacement material that would not corrode at all or as much?
>
>Yes.  You *want* the zinc to be consumed.  The alternative is for other,
>more imoportant parts to be damaged.  The zincs are what's called
>a "sacrificial" anode.   Materials that corrode less work less.
>
>>My knowledge of electrical systems is limited to house wiring and 
>>electronics, by I would guess the combination of saltwater and
>>electricity is causing corrosion, correct? Why is this important
>>to the working engine?
 
Having your aluminum (name your favorite engine part) literally disappear can
ruin your day big time!
>
>Nope.  The combination of an electrolyte (seawater) and dissimilar metals
>(the heat exchanger and engine) causes electricity.  This in turns causes
>elecrolysis to waste the anode.
Uh, you almost forgot that the dissimlar metals need to be electrically connected
to each other to complete the electrolysis circuit.  This is quite often the case
in most vessels.
-- 
Jack (John) Adams			| Bellcore NVC 2Z-220
(908) 758-5372 {Voice}			| (908) 758-4389 {Facsimile}
jadams@vixen.bellcore.com		| kahuna@attmail.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: dwl@watson.ibm.com (David W. Levine)
Subject: Re: Coyote spotted, no sign of Mike Plant
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:32:17 GMT
Reply-To: dwl@watson.ibm.com 
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Center

At this point, I suspect it's a little early to do much a port mortum on the
accident. Sometime in the not to distant future, we (the sailing community,
not just rec.boats) should have some solid facts to base a discussion on.

My experience with complex analysis based on speculation is that it rapidly
degenerates into a morass of opinions mixed with facts and psuedo-facts in
a way that rarely illuminates the subject. 

One comment, tho, on the risk taking involved. I don't see that any change in
the rules will prevent the people who go out and push themselves and their
equipment to (and therefore sometimes beyond) reasonable limits from doing
just that. It's in the nature of the people, and I, for one, see no reason
to stop them. There's plenty of room for debate on what society should do
when one of these people get's in trouble, but that's another question
altogether.

David W. Levine --  dwl@watson.ibm.com  -- IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Center
                   -- My Opinions, IBM's hardware. -- 
"Fanaticism consists in redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your
aim" - George Santayana  
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Newsgroups: rec.boats

In rec.boats, francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:

    I really liked the 2hp Honda on a boat of similar displacement. The
    4-stroke engine is smooth and quiet (relatively) and there's no oil
    and gas mixing as with 2-strokes. Make sure you get the proper length
    shaft and a displacement propeller.

Honda also claims that the 4-stroke pollutes a lot less because the
fuel burns more cleanly and it does not dump oil into the water.  My
old 2-stroke certainly leaves a lot of oil in the wake (partly, I
suspect, because it is old--32 years old) and it is smoky.  Cannot
vouch for the truth of Honda's claim because I have only just bought
my 8hp and will not be able to try it out until next year.

B.S!
P.S. If you shop carefully, you should be able to get a pretty good
price this time of year.
From: tarkkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lauri Tarkkonen)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Tuff Luff and other headstay foils
Date: 22 Nov 92 21:00:51 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In <1992Nov20.164721.29867@ttinews.tti.com> scott@soldev.tti.com (Scott Taylor) writes:

>In article <1992Nov17.215451.3441@klaava.Helsinki.FI> tarkkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lauri Tarkkonen) writes:
>>In <guido.722012392@sparc-3> guido@blink.att.com (Guido Bertocci) writes:
>>

>Now, which boat do you think is ahead of the other in this race?
>Remember that the boats are identical, the crews are equally skilled
>and the conditions are the same. The only difference is that one 
>boat has a foil and the other does not.

Where do you get those identical boats, with identical crews?

>>- Lauri Tarkkonen


>Scott Taylor, Citicorp/TTI
>pyramid!ttidca!scott
>(310) 450-9111 x2321

- Lauri Tarkkonen
From: mmp@mmp.UUCP (Lou McIntosh)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: wood or glass?
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 05:52:32 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Maine Meeting Place * 207-324-5310 * Maine's Disabilities Network

 > In article <1992Nov14.010752.11089@u.washington.edu> 
 >  kaygee@hardy.u.washington.edu (Kevin Giansante) writes:
 > > nobody seems to be able to tell me what it's realistic
 > >to expect of, say, a twenty-to-thirty-year-old fiberglass hull, or what
 > >might be involved in refurbishing a neglected glass boat.
 > 
 > Wooden Boat magazine had an article some time back comparing the costs
 > of maintaining a wooden boat versus the cost of maintaining a glass
 > boat. The article presumed that you would have a yard do most of
 > the work, and was pretty thorough, in typical WB fashion. Surprisingly,
 > to me anyway, the costs came out pretty even.
 > 
 > On the other hand, I have an Alberg 30 (glass) and my brother has
 > a 1941 Hinckley Islander (31', wood) in the next slip. We both do a lot
 > of our own work, and he works a hell of a lot more than I. I think
 > the extra work is worth it to have a lovely wooden boat. In fact,
 > my next boat will be wood.
 
        Having grown up in a boatyard, I can't resist this one ... Assuming
the wood boat and glass boat are comparably maintained, the difference in
costs of GOOD maintenance are negligible for the first few years, because
most maintenance addresses the systems and the rig;  costs of GOOD
maintenance continue to be comparable for a long time IF you don't let the
rainwater get started on its trip down into the frameheads ... but that's 
difficult to do;  many allegedly wonderful yards don't understand how to 
keep fresh water out of a wooden hull.  After the first two years of neglect
or careless maintenance, costs for the wooden hull begin to rise 
geometrically.  The Wooden Boat article assumed that this process had not
yet begun.
        I'm a wooden-boat partisan, but if someone told me I was going to be 
given a twenty-five-year-old hull, sight unseen, I'd hope it was glass;  I'd
also hope it was solid glass, uncored, and built before the manufacturers 
started to lighten up on the scantlings to save money.  In that case, I'd 
figure on having a fairly good boat -- after replacing the engine, fuel tank,
water tank, electrical system, and probably the standing rigging -- unless
someone had beaten me to it.  Of course, those expenses go equally for the 
wooden hull.  Cosmetically, the major difference is that if the glass hull
looks shabby you can still go sailing in it -- but if the wooden hull looks
shabby, you better not.
        "The single most important characteristic to be sought in a boat is --
youth."

Lou McIntosh--Maine Meeting Place--(207)324-5310--lhm@mmp.nlbbs.uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: rec.boats