HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: amy@lloyd.Camex.COM (Amy Lindsay)
Subject: Re: help with ATC statement
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 09:13:04 EST

  * I think there was another person supposed to be attributed here, but they
  * seem to have gotten lost...
In article <1993Jan8.180716.196@aosg.gsf.dec.com> verhulst@raven.aosg.gsf.dec.com () writes:
>>I think the controllers at LWM must be the best and as a very green
>
>Well, I know several CFIs who have different opinions.  On several occasions

Well, you know that Lawrence (Mass), like most tower airports, has
both good and bad controllers.  The first time my instructor took me
there, I was just learning how to use the radio, and the controller
told me to call her back when I was a little closer.

By the time I got to where she wanted me to call her back, she was
arguing at another pilot and I couldn't get a word in edgewise.  (I
kept thinking about the other pilot "why on earth do you insist on
telling ATC your entire life history..." because I thought it was his
fault she was so testy.)

I finally got a hold of her, and she started in on me.  It took me a
couple more lessons before I got the nerve to talk on the radio again
because I was afraid I'd say the wrong thing and ATC would ream into
me.

Anyway, when I was doing my night work we went over to Lawrence again,
and the tower controllers I had then were great.  It was gusty and
they gave me the wind observations on final for every landing.

In fact, I had fairly windy conditions for my checkride, and the guy
who owns the flight school asked me why I was planning on going up to
4500 when I could make the whole trip to Manchester (about a 20 minute
flight) at 2500 by just transitioning Lawrence's airspace.  Oh right,
slap on the head, you can transition airspace just by talking to the
tower.  So, I did.  And not only was I cleared to do so, but they
asked me to wave as I passed by the tower...

So, there are nice controllers and not-so-nice ones, and "good" is a
relative term.  Just remember that they're all actually there to help
you, so if you need help in understanding THEM, just ask.

					--amy

Typography & Design Department ~ Camex, Inc. ~ Boston, MA (617-426-7550 x575)
A.G.Lindsay, PP-ASEL   *   Cloud Rental: Reasonable Rates   *   amy@camex.com
"Airfoil... That part of the airplane which foils the pilot's efforts to fly
	       it--usually anything connected to the stick."
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: smccrory@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Scott McCrory)
Subject: Medical vision requirements?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 18:57:46 GMT

Hello all,
     I'm a 25 year-old student soon to graduate and am very interested in pursuing
my pilot's license.  The only thing I'm concerned about is the medical certificate's
limit on uncorrected vision being no greater than 20/50.  Does anyone here know what
that corresponds to in terms of lens values?...my worst eye uses a 3.50 corrective lens.

Thanks!
Scott McCrory
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: plummer@vax  (William W. Plummer)
Subject: Re: Maximum number of hours prior to solo?
Nntp-Software: PC/TCP NNTP
Reply-To: plummer@babyoil.ftp.com
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1993 10:02:03

In article <C0F92D.K9p@utdallas.edu> kmldorf@utdallas.edu (George Kimeldorf) writes:

 >In article <Bzn31F.17H@utdallas.edu> kmldorf@utdallas.edu (George Kimeldorf)
 >writes:
 >
 >> What is the record for the maximum number of hours prior to first solo?
 >> Since October, I have accumulated 28.3 hours without being signed off to
 >> solo.  Is that a record?  Do I win first prize?
 >After posting that message, I accumulated another 5.6 hours by continuing my
 >routine of flying two or three times per week, but I still couldn't land
 >the plane satisfactorily.  Then a spell of bad weather kept me grounded for
 >nine days, until today when I did eight successive smooth landings with my
 >instructor, followed by three SOLO!

I am *very* glad to hear that!  I've put in 27.5 hours and still
don't have the hang of landing....  Maybe this weekend...  --Bill

--
William W. Plummer, N1NGK	plummer@ftp.com		508-659-6281
FTP Software, Inc.		2 High Street		N. Andover MA 01845


Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: conover@nuchat.sccsi.com (Mark Allen Conover)
Subject: Videos vs. Self-teaching vs. Class-teaching
Organization: South Coast Computing Services, Inc.
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:24:06 GMT

Here are my two cents on the matter of learning the "ground-school"
concepts.  I went the super-cheapo route.  I found a used copy of
_Invitation_to_Fly_, which was excellent.  Read most of it.  Then, I
purchased a Gleims (sp?) book to insure that I could fit my generalized
knowledge into the format expected by the FAA Written Exam.  After a few
runs through the latter, I felt prepared.  All the while, I was taking
two or three hours of flight instruction per week.  Having been an
aviation nut for most of my life, I did not expect any difficulty with
the written exam.  Indeed, I scored a 92.

Even though I learned enough to pass the test with a decent score, I
must admit to having some regret about not having an actual ground-school
instructor.   I wish I could have had the benefit of a seasoned professional's
experiences.  It is this knowledge that I must pick up from the net, as well
as from my fellow pilots at the local FBO.

If you have access to a good ground-school, take advantage of it.

Mark Conover PP-ASEL  // conover@nuchat.sccsi.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: ritter@claude.ma30.bull.com (Roger Ritter)
Subject: Re: help with ATC statement
Organization: Bull HN Informations Systems Inc.
Date:  8 Jan 93 14:29:28 GMT

eckhouse@athena.mit.edu (D. Noah Eckhouse) writes:
>Thanks for all the clarification, folks.  I now believe I know the
>answer.  (I will, of course, also run it past my instructor).  Nothing
>like a low hour student to make the rest of the world look like
>experts!

Well, all of us "experts" were there once!  And I can't speak for the others,
but I've made my share of mistakes, and asked my share of "dumb" questions.
So hang in there, and someday you, too, can be an "expert" :-).
-- 
Roger Ritter N1FZZ (R.Ritter@ma30.bull.com) PP-ASEL, AGI
1946 Luscombe 8A N71983 "Rocky"
Sheep do not so much fly as plummet!        NH CAP: Profile 49
From: lau@sunset.ai.sri.com (Stephen Lau)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
Subject: Cost of Flight School
Date: 7 Jan 93 21:21:57 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, CA


I've always wanted to learn how to fly and would
like to know about how much it costs on the average
to learn to fly. I would like to carry passengers,
but I would settle for a solo license for now if
it was too expensive. The length of time for the average
license would also be of help.


Does anyone know of a good, yet inexpensive, flying 
school here in the Bay Area?  

Also, how much does it usually costs to fly after one
has a license?

Thanks for any info.

Steve

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen Lau                 lau@ai.sri.com| "I'm not sure if you're a 
SRI International                         |  mysterious person or just still
333 Ravenswood Ave., Menlo Park, CA. 94025|  water that doesn't run very deep."
(415) 859-2925              (415) 326-6200|               - Gene Kelly
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: brecher@well.sf.ca.us (Steve Brecher)
Subject: Re: ATC contact below 300ft
Organization: none, in Reno NV USA
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 18:30:15 GMT

In <3621.1817.uupcb@compart.fi>, nikke.gaby@compart.fi (Nikke Gaby) asks:
> Is it true that I don't have to answer to the ATC when being on final
> below 300 ft AGL ?

It's not true in the sense that there's some specific rule to that effect
-- there isn't.  But it's true that you don't have to do anything that
compromises the safety of your flight, and that is especially true with
respect to the item at the bottom of your list of tasks:  Aviate,
Navigate, Communicate.

> It's true that if you have to answer by using a hand-set microphone

If you deal with ATC much, a headset with a boom microphone and a PTT
(Press To Talk) switch will make your communications a lot easier.
Portable PTTs are available that attach to the yoke with Velcro.

I once had a controller ask me where I parked while I was in the landing
flare.  I did answer, but I was annoyed.  I think the controller was a
trainee; it hasn't happened again.
--
brecher@well.sf.ca.us (Steve Brecher)

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
From: sarangan@maxwell.uwaterloo.ca (Andrew Sarangan)
Subject: Info on flight training needed...
Reply-To: sarangan@maxwell.uwaterloo.ca (Andrew Sarangan)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: can
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 02:26:23 GMT



Can anyone advice me on how I go about getting a piloting licence?

My main questions are:

- How much does it cost ?
- How long does it take ?
- What should I look for in selecting a flying school ?
- What is a good school in the Waterloo region ?

I am a novice, so any answers will be appreciated.

Thanks

Andrew
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: ritter@claude.ma30.bull.com (Roger Ritter)
Subject: Re: help with ATC statement
Organization: Bull HN Informations Systems Inc.
Date:  8 Jan 93 14:34:40 GMT

mparker@adobe.com (Mike Parker) writes:
>While we're on the subject Palo Alto also likes
>"extend base through final" which means you should turn final late and then
>sort of have to J-hook it back to final. They also like "S turns authorized
>on final" which has obvious meaning and is IMHO potentially dangerous, keep
>the ball centered and pay attention to airspeed.

My favorite (only happened to me once) is "make a 270 degree turn base
to final".  I did it, but this is definitely a case where the response
"unable" is appropriate.  And before the flames start, yes I am aware of
the risks and dangers inherent in this sort of low-level maneuvering.  I
made sure that airspeed, rate of descent, and so forth were where I 
wanted them before I started the turn.
-- 
Roger Ritter N1FZZ (R.Ritter@ma30.bull.com) PP-ASEL, AGI
1946 Luscombe 8A N71983 "Rocky"
Sheep do not so much fly as plummet!        NH CAP: Profile 49
From: dls@freedom.genrad.com (Diana L. Carlson)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
Subject: Re: Questions: logbook entries at cross country stops
Date: 4 Jan 1993 12:05:47 -0500
Organization: GenRad, Inc.
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: freedom.genrad.com

In article <1992Dec30.175328.26219@peck.com> geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck) writes:
>In article <C02109.32y@acsu.buffalo.edu> hull@sybil.cs.Buffalo.EDU (Jon Hull)
>writes:
>> Re:  the three solo takeoffs and landings at a tower
>> controlled field that are required for student pilots.
>
>I assume you're referring to 61.109(b)(3).
>
>> My questions are:  
>> 2.  Is a logbook entry required from someone at that airport stating
>>     that you were actually there?
>
>No.
Geoff's right, it's not required, but later in life you may look back and
be glad you got that entry.  On my second cross country the guy I asked
to sign my logbook was an ATP.  He flew BIG airplanes.  WOW!!! (Ah, what
little things can awe a student pilot!  :-)  

I've also got a logbook endorsement from an astronaut....that one I really
treasure.

Diana
-- 
->Diana L. (Syriac) Carlson dls@genrad.com	Ham: KC1SP (Sweet Pea)      <-
->I'D RATHER BE FLYING!	P-ASEL, INST		CAP: CPT, Freedom 690 Mobile<-
->AD ASTRA, PER ASPERA				Airplane: C-172 N6513E	    <-
->GenRad, MS/6, 300 Baker Ave, Concord, Mass.  01742  (508)369-4400 x2459   <-
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: verhulst@raven.aosg.gsf.dec.com ()
Subject: Re: help with ATC statement
Organization: AOSG
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:07:16 GMT

>I think the controllers at LWM must be the best and as a very green
.student, I appreciate it.  I have never heard, "Square your turns",
.but rather, "Extend your downwind", or "Can you make a short final
.now?".   The intent is clear.  --Bill

Well, I know several CFIs who have different opinions.  On several occasions
I've been asked to extend my downwind at LWM and 5 miles later needed to hint
that just maybe they forgot something.  LWM has alot of trainee controllers
but all in all I think they do a reasonable job.  And they WILL ask you to 
square your base ocasionally.
From: mmuller@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Mark Timothy Muller)
Subject: Re: Maximum number of hours prior to solo?
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
Reply-To: mmuller@ics.uci.edu (Mark Muller)
Organization: Univ. of Calif., Irvine, Info. & Computer Sci. Dept.
Date: 11 Jan 93 18:44:20 GMT

The break that you speak of I have also experienced.  My flying inproved
much after a two-three weeks of bad weather/schedules.  This reason is
attributed to mental training.  Mental training is as important to physical
training in most physical activities.

Mark.

ps: my first attempted solo was at 18 hrs., first successful solo was in high
20's.

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: eckhouse@athena.mit.edu (D. Noah Eckhouse)
Subject: help with ATC statement
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:31:28 GMT



This morning I was flying touch-and-goes and the controller told me
to:

"Square your turn to base and final"  which I thought meant hurry up and
get going with those two left handed turns.  Which I did.

Is this what he meant?  Or did he mean to slow down and not round the
turns too much.  As it was a westwind was landing the opposite way on
the runway (on 11 not 29) and I had to pull a quick 180 and extend a
bot more for him to taxi clear.  Not a crisis situation, but I was
just curious.  The say that all the time.  


=====================================
Noah Eckhouse
Research Specialist
MIT Department of Ocean Engineering
77 Massachusetts Avenue, Room 1-225
Cambridge, MA  02139
617/253-5900  eckhouse@athena.mit.edu

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: davidm@dead.duc.auburn.edu (David Mcleod)
Subject: Re: Maximum number of hours prior to solo?
Reply-To: davidm@dead.duc.auburn.edu
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:53:16 GMT

In article 8740@ics.uci.edu, mmuller@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Mark Timothy Muller) writes:

>ps: my first attempted solo was at 18 hrs., first successful solo was in high
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>20's.
>
What do you mean by first attempted?
From: nikke.gaby@compart.fi (Nikke Gaby) 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
Subject: PILOTE TRAINING SCHOOL
Date: 5 Jan 93 22:16:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: ComPart BBS, Helsinki-Finland, +358 0 506 3329 (14 lines V.32bis)
Reply-To: nikke.gaby@compart.fi (Nikke Gaby) 

        Hi !

        I'd like to introduce myself : I'm a 25 years old student at the
        Helsinki University of Technology. (Finland)

        I got me Private Pilote Licence last summer in France where I
        was instructed on Robin DR-400, DR-300 and ATL by a former Navy
        Fouga-Magister instructor. Anyway, my interest on flying is
        growing everyday and I will graduate in the next future from the
        University.

        So, I'm looking for me and my brother Patrick a high caliber
        pilote training in a professional environment. We're searching
        full-time training and high quality education. We're certified
        physically fit and drug-free. We both have the Private Pilote
        Licence.

        What we want is that the institute, or academy is an FAA
        approved Part 141 Flight School and provides Certificates of
        Eligibility for Nonimmigrant (M-1 & I-20) Student Status or
        equivalent.

        If you know such a school that will provide us a Professional
        Multi-Engine Turbine Instrument Flight Degree, please live a
        message or send your proposition to the following address :

                                        Nicolas Gabriel-Robez
                                        Alalinnake 1 E 47
                                        02160 ESPOO
                                        Finland
                                        fax : (358-0) 425 940

        Thank you !
---
 . SLMR 2.1a . Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
                                                                                                                             
----
+--------------------------------------------------+
| ComPart BBS    +358-0-506-3329 (ZyXEL V.32bis)   |
| Helsinki, Finland  -  Number 1 BBS in Finland    |
+--------------------------------------------------+
From: rocky.rawlins@the-matrix.com (Rocky Rawlins) 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
Subject: ENERGY AND TACTICS (WAS:
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:21:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The MATRIX BBS - Birmingham, AL - 205-323-2016
Reply-To: rocky.rawlins@the-matrix.com (Rocky Rawlins) 

-> Fighters still trade altitude for airspeed/energy.  A fight generally
-> goes high speed at intercept, slow to corner speed at or just past
-> the merge, then turn as hard as you can.  You bleed energy at max
-> turn rate (instantaneous) so you descend to regain energy.  That's
-> one reason a prolonged turning fight often degenerates into a diving
-> spiral.  You can't get a solution (so its prolonged) and you bleed
-> trying to get one.

Isn't that the essential reason though for developing aircraft with
greater than 1-1 thrust ratios? With that kind of power isn't it
possible to regain or maintain energy, even in a high-G turn without
having to sacrifice altitude? I don't do that kind of flying so my
information s predominantly theoretical, not practical.
                                        Rocky
                                                                              
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
From: sents@dixie.com (Jeff Sents)
Subject: Re: F-22 Question
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 03:38:51 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
Distribution: usa

megazone@obsidian.WPI.EDU (MegaZone23) writes:

>In article <1993Jan10.125038.29928@admiral.uucp> dave@admiral.uucp (Dave Litchman) writes:
>>Demise? I remember seeing a news item (with footage of the incident) in which
>>the landing gear of the F-22 collapsed upon touchdown. Is this what you're
>>talking about? It didn't look too bad...

>The sole flying YF-22 crashed on a touch and go... 

 Before I begin, I need to thank you for your post. It really livened
things up around the office today.

 I suggest you read the November 9 and November 16 Aviation Weeks. Each
contains detailed accounts of th YF-22A crash. The A/C was not flying a
touch and go, it was flying a planned go-around using afterburner with
the thrust vectoring enabled. At approx. 40ft and 175 kts (10 sec.
before impact) the afterburner was lit. 1.5 sec afterward the gear was 
raised. Shortly thereafter, the A/C began what was to be approx. 8 sec
of severe pitch oscillations. 5.5 sec before impact Lockheed pilot
Tom Morgenfeld dropped afterburner as he tried to pull out. The A/C
bellied on Runway 22 and slid 8000ft before stopping. The pilot
punched the canopy, and climbed out with minor injuries.

>the gear up and slid along the runway, catching fire. The pilot climbed out
>with minor injuries, but the aircraft was destroyed. With the damage already
>extensive it was decided to let the airframe burn under supervision to
>assess the burn characteristics...

 The fire crew arrived within a few minutes and IMMEDIATELY extinguished 
the external flames. However they had difficulty fighting the internal
fire because the lower access panels were on the ground and they did
not have a cutting tool capable of penetrating the titanium skin. The
fire was officially declared out 2 hr. after the crash. There is simply
no way anyone would even think of allowing an A/C of the YF-22A's cost
and importance to 'burn under supervision'.  I really hope you were
being sarcastic when you wrote that.

>The other YF-22 was already rendered non-airworthy by use in ground testing.

 Right conclusion, wrong reason.


***************************************************************************
* Jeff R. Sents                           *                               *
* Marietta, Georgia, USA                  *    Never Trust Programmers    *
* home: sents@dixie.com                   *    Who Carry Screwdrivers!    * 
* work: ge03429@loads1.lasc.lockheed.com  *                               *
***************************************************************************
#include <stdsclmr.h>
<This message contains only the opinions & beliefs of its author, 
which in no way represent those of anyone else.>

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
From: smccoy@dw3g.ess.harris.com (Scott McCoy)
Subject: Re: Best fighterpilot ?!?!
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:54:30 GMT
Organization: Harris Corporation Information Systems Division

Re: Hans Joachim Marseille

Wasn't Marseille the pilot who specialized in deflection shots?

I seem to remember one of the WWII German fighter 'super-aces'
preferred a high angle deflection shot, as opposed to the
normal shot from the rear quarter.

-- 
Scott McCoy
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
From: jaskew@spam.ua.oz (Joseph Askew)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
Subject: Re: MiG29 on TV
Summary: He isn't the only one
Date: 7 Jan 93 01:49:46 GMT
Followup-To: rec.aviation.miltary
Organization: Statistics, Pure & Applied Mathematics, University of Adelaide

In article <65510004@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com> tonyz@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Tony Zugates) writes:

>Anyone see 60 minutes re: defector pilot (forgot his name) who flew
>to Turkey and now living in US?  What really struck me was the way
>his countrymen still treat him.

>After the breakup of the Soviet Union, why would they consider him a
>traitor?  It seems to me he led the way in showing his displeasure with
>a regime that lied to its people, killed innocents and generally were
>"the evil empire"....

>Is this the feeling of the Ukrainian people, or just a few disgruntled
>military pilots who feel the breakup of the USSR in some way has
>compromised their personal career?

Apparently there was a Pole who spied for the US right through the
70's and into the 80's before defecting. A really high up sort of
officer too, he had access to Soviet Army plans and seems to have
been a genuine success for US intelligence. Now he lives in the
US and fully *80%* of the Polish population (according to a poll
I saw reproduced in the Spectator) considers him a traitor and
want charges laid. This is the same percentage who regard General
Whatshisname of Martial Law fame as a National hero. I think that
clearly the Soviet Empire was not as unpopular as we were all told
for decades. Clearly the Communists had a hell of a lot of support
from some people, quite a lot of people really. If only they had
run their economy better they might have won an election or two
as some of them have been doing anyway (Lithuania for Christs sake!!)

>I would consider this man's exploits as heroic considering what he
>did to get out...

O.K. So the guy defected, does that make him a hero?

Joseph Askew

-- 
Joseph Askew, Gauche and Proud  Barbarian horns draw out the northern wind;
jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu  Paler than water lies the Thistle Pass;
Disclaimer? Sue, see if I care  Sky swallows up the road to Kokonor;
One China One Korea One Eire32  Moonlight, a thousand miles along the Wall.