HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: How do I store my tents, etc, in a very humid house?
Date: 30 Jul 92 16:18:23 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

In article <122440153@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> ajs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Alan Silverstein) writes:
>> I live right on a river, and can't keep the mildew off of stuff.

>How about enclosing it in airtight plastic bags when not in use?
>Preferably after cooking in the sun on a hot day.  I do this for
>rubber/silicone parts anyway (like my dive mask) just to extend their
>lives, even here in dry Colorado.

Better would be putting a desiccant in the bag to absorb the
moisture.  Baking it in the sun may dry out some moisture but also
tends to raise the absolute humidity (since the water vapor holding
capacity of air increases with temperature).  Then when the
temperature drops the relative humidity will increase, perhaps even
reaching the dew point.

Also, take "airtight" labels with a grain of salt.  Many plastics
are rather permeable to water vapor.  Of course a desiccant will
help with this also.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: vijay@tcnts2.tcs.com (Vijay Manwani)
Subject: Camping / hiking in Oregon, Wyoming (Yellowstone).
Organization: Teknekron Communications, Inc
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 22:16:06 GMT


I`m taking a 10 day camping, hiking, sight seeing trip from San Franscisco to 
Yellowstone and back in the first week of August. I'm hoping to do a few hikes in Oregon and then head on to Yellowstone for 4-5 days. Any suggestions on hikes, 
interesting places to visit on the way, weather conditions etc.

Vijay.
From: krieg@comet.med.ge.com (Andrew Krieg, Man or Android?)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Mildew Removal
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:16:30 GMT
Reply-To: krieg@titan.med.ge.com (Andrew Krieg, Man or Android?)
Organization: GE Medical Systems - CT, New Berlin, WI

I don't remember drying out my tent after the last time I used it, so I guess
I didn't.  As a result, I have a mild case of mildew (yuck!) on the rain fly.
What is the best and safest way to remove mildew from a tent?  I have used
Lysol and elbow grease to take mildew off of a kite tail (also made of
ripstop nylon) but I am unsure if this is safe for a tent.  Any suggestions? 
--
=     Andrew Krieg	| 						=
= krieg@titan.med.ge.com|  Treguna   Mekoides   Trecorum   Satis   Dee	=
=	   or		|						=
= krieg@point.cs.uwm.edu| 				    - Astoroth	=
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: grahaj@euler.math.rpi.edu (Jeffrey Allen Graham)
Subject: Wood Stoves
Reply-To: grahaj@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 23:48:48 GMT

Keywords: stoves. wood fuel

Awhile ago there was a post about using a wood bruning stove.  I have a
question.  What do you use (besides a match) to get the flames started?
Thanks for any info.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: KAUFMAN@biomed.med.yale.edu (Elizabeth Kaufman)
Subject: Camping in Newfoundland/Labrador
Organization: Yale University
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 12:26:33 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20


  Hello everyone. I am looking for suggestions for hiking/camping in
Newfoundland and Labrador for late August, early September. I have the glossies
from their tourism bureau already. Any comments or suggestions will be
appreciated! Thanks.

-Elizabeth Kaufman


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

 Elizabeth Kaufman		  Phone:   (203) 785-4566
 Data Network Operations          FAX:     (203) 737-4037
 Biomedical Computing Unit        Internet: kaufman@biomed.med.yale.edu
 Yale Medical School              Bitnet:   kaufman@Yalemed
 333 Cedar Street, B-307                
 New Haven CT 06510
From: paul@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: MSR Whisperlite
Date: 21 Jul 92 09:04:14 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh

In article <1992Jul21.143544.7857@brt.deakin.edu.au>, dougcc@brt.deakin.edu.au (Douglas Miller) writes:
> 
>   o  "White Gas" = "White Spirit" = "Coleman Gas" = "Shellite".
>      A liquid petroleum product, mainly octane, with other hydrocrabons
>      present.   Shell (maker of Shellite) would be worth trying.

I got fed up with matches and disposable lighters, so I bought myself a
Zippo lighter. Can I use White Gas (Coleman fuel) in it? What kind of fuel
are lighters supposed to use?

BTW. Coleman fuel (White Gas) is widely available in camping shops in the
UK - I use it in my Whisperlite. I have a Whisperlite International which
can burn Parafin (Kerosene) by changing the jet, but I've never tried it.
I believe that it will also burn Petrol (Gasoline) if you are desparate, but
the deposits clog up the tube.

	Paul

-- 
Paul Anderson                      email: paul@dcs.ed.ac.uk
LFCS, Dept. of Computer Science
University of Edinburgh            phone: (+44) (0)31-650-5193
Edinburgh EH9 3JZ, UK.             fax:   (+44) (0)31-667-7209
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: kjk@unislc.uucp (Kirt Krammer)
Subject: Re: Wood Stoves
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 14:14:30 GMT

From article <vr1x5v_@rpi.edu>, by grahaj@euler.math.rpi.edu (Jeffrey Allen Graham):
> Keywords: stoves. wood fuel
> 
> Awhile ago there was a post about using a wood bruning stove.  I have a
> question.  What do you use (besides a match) to get the flames started?
> Thanks for any info.

Nice dry cedar bark, paper, dry grass... any kind of decent tinder.
In damp conditions, an inch or so of firestarter stick (those reddish
chunks of paraffin-soaked fiber board you find at any KMart) work great.
Liquid firestarters are not recommended.
-- 
Kirt Krammer                            speaking for hisself                
Unisys Corp, D1V03
322 N. 2200 W., Salt Lake City, UT 84116
801-594-5742   kjk@unislc.slc.unisys.com  -or- unislc!kjk
From: mwj@beta.lanl.gov (William Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Cairns above timberline can be silly ...
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:49:44 GMT
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory

In article <1992Jul27.193311.12124@news.mentorg.com> billw@sjc.mentorg.com writes:
>
>In article <1992Jul27.152950.11282@ncar.ucar.edu>, ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes:
>|> I would rather see a single (marked), well used trail, with pristine wilds
>|> to each side, than dozens of use-trails and paths criss-crossing a delicate
>|> environment.  Your mileage may vary.
>
>I think it would be hard for anyone to argue with this statement.  The 
>question is, does obliterating the cairns bring about the "dozens of
>use-trails"?

No more than *building* cairns does.

The typical Colorado 14er is a walk-up bump (sure, there are exceptions; I'm
just talking about the "typical" one) that has various trails to maybe the
13,000-foot level.  Above this it is likely to involve talus fields through
which more or less optimum routes may exist.  Problem is, no two cairn
builders have the same idea of what constitutes an "optimum" route through
the talus section.  Consequently, the upper slopes of lots of 14ers, and
many lower mountains as well, are littered with cairns, and if you simply
look from one cairn to the next, the route you're taking may or may not have
some resemblance to a sensible way to the top.  All it does is collect
footprints in the very near vicinity of the cairn.  This may or may not be
desirable -- frankly, the notion of "environmental impact" in a San Juans
talus field strikes me as somewhat quaint -- but certainly doesn't impress
me as an argument for leaving cairns intact.

A frequent climbing partner notes that the presence of a cairn on a 14er
serves mainly to tell you that someone has been in that precise location
who likes to build cairns.  These words are wise.

For a counterargument in favor of leaving cairns alone, see my next posting.

-- 
Bill Johnson				| "This is a bit complicated, so let
Los Alamos National Laboratory		| me explain it backwards."  (first
Los Alamos, New Mexico USA		| line of a memo from a fellow Los
!cmcl2!lanl!mwj (mwj@lanl.gov)		| Alamos physicist who will go unnamed)
Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:5621 rec.climbing:2600
From: jjk@astro.umd.edu (Jim Klavetter)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Cairns, Flags, and Fixed Wands
Date: 28 Jul 92 15:12:28 GMT
Organization: U. of Maryland @ College Park, Astronomy

I don't think "naughty" or "nice" or the right words to describe this
situation.  I can think of a time in CO when I was happy to find a
cairn which then pointed me to the easiest way through the brush.
Finding a cairn up in the Yukon would have probably been amusing.  But
consider cairns in New England:

Up in the "garden" (which is, of course, above treeline) around Mt.
Washington, there are huge cairns (biggest I've even seen except on
Mauna Loa where they aren't called cairns.  Quiz:  what are they
called in HI? [Miya exempt]).  During the summer, when the trail is
marked by 1) lack of vegitation, 2) a trough, and 3) lined with rocks,
these cairns seem plain silly.  I've done most of my hiking in NH in
winter, though, and then they don't seem silly at all.  No rut is
going to show through feet of snow and ice but those cairns are big
enough and close enough to be useful even if full whiteout conditions
(believe me).

So, like almost every other ethical question in the backcountry:
depends.  Personally, I don't get bothered by them, and I hope others
follow them, so it isn't a big deal.  On the other hand, routefinding
is a wonderful experience I enjoy so I sometimes don't like to see
them.  And finally, except along a trail, of course, would you trust a
cairn to point you where YOU wanted to go?

jjk@astro.umd.edu also for Athabasca and Reudi
Jim Klavetter
Astronomy
UMD
College Park, MD  20742
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.bicycles,rec.skiing
From: rjl@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Reggie Lewis)
Subject: Ski Binding Storage
Organization: UNIX(R) System Laboratories
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:16:16 GMT

I bought equipment last spring and have read somewhere that before
storing the skis over the summer, one should have the bindings 
loosened otherwise they will lose some tension and be worthless
eventually.

The bindings are Marker M48's and appear easy to manipulate.  Would
there be any reason why I shouldn't do it myself after marking down
the appropriate settings?

Please e-mail responses as I don't get to read news often.

Thanks.
----------
Reggie Lewis

EMAIL:	...!att!attmail!reglewis
	rjl@usl.com

VOICE:	Evenings: 212-924-6560 
	Days:     908-522-6067
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: rodger@Cadence.COM (Rodger Hughes)
Subject: Re: Dutch Ovens in the backcountry
Keywords: cookbooks, favorite recipes, and tips
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 21:28:31 GMT

There are two books I would recommend.

Specifically on using Dutch ovens try "Let's Cook Dutch" by Robert L.
Ririe.  ISBN 0-88290-120-6 Horizon Publishers

A more general book is called "Roughing it Easy" Don't know the author.
This book contains good information on cooking with at Dutch oven, plus
all kinds of other cooking techniques, including Card Board Box Ovens, 
Reflector Oven, and cooking without utensils.  This book has lots of neat
ideas.
--
--------------------------------------------------------
Rodger Hughes 	rodger@cadence.com   (408)894-3099
San Jose, California 95134 U.S.A.
From: eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: long pants/shorts
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:54:39 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

While standing around at the start of the 9-day portion of a recent trip,
we noticed the prepondance of these convertable pants.  While I lack them,
as did the Germans und our party, and Barclay (the senior fellow),
every one else had them.  Down the line they all said they got them for $20
on sale at REI until they got to Linus to admitted he paid full price
at Banana Republic for $60.

Yuppies: you guys get what you pay for.....

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: neville@cs.washington.edu (Dorothy Neville)
Subject: Re: Hiking boots and the Coors Brewery
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 22:55:33 GMT

In article <16830FD42.UCPL040@UNLVM.UNL.EDU> skott underwood writes:
>========================================================================
>
>Perhaps I'm a bit out of place here, in fact this probably belongs on
>rec.backcountry.politics or something. In any case correct me if I'm
>wrog about any of the facts.  I discontinued my use of Adolph Coors
>products sometime in the early 1980s when I discovered that the Coors
>brothers were very strong supporters of the Regan administration and
>the President's secretary of the interior at that time.  That would be
>James Watt.



Well, SUWA (southern utah wilderness alliance) has been battling Coors
for a while about Coors wanting to drill just about everywhere in the
wilderness of Utah.  Recently they backed off of a drill site in
Little Canyon, a proposed Wilderness site and home of 125 endangered
desert bighorn, after pressure from SUWA, Sierra Club and "public
reaction".

According to SUWA newsletter winter 91:

$4,000,000 ... Amount Coors Brewing Company is spending to
publlicize its "Pure Water 2000" advertising campaign.

$1,600,000 ... Amount Coors has been assessed in fines for
polluting water.

13,000 ... Number of fish killed Coors killed by recently
polluting a stream in colorado.

240 ... Number of Coors' Clean Water Act violations in the past
5 years.

(sources: Salt Lake Tribune, Rocky Mountain News, US Water News)



  -- Dorothy (above excerpted from SUWA newsletter without permission)

ps:  SUWA is great.  for more information or to become a member:
                   SUWA
             1471 South 1100 East
         Salt Lake City, Utah 84105-2423
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: Chevron - People Do?
Date: 28 Jul 92 09:49:16 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Distribution: usa

jbm@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Jeffrey Mulligan) writes:
>Any of you who watch television probably know what I'm talking about:
>those schmaltzy ads where a couple of engineers replace some baby
>bunnies in their nest after the pipeline construction is finished;
>"Do people really go to that much trouble so that baby bunnies blah
>blah blah?" [Fade to Chevron logo] "People Do."
>
>So my question is, do you think this is just a bunch of BS, or is
>Chevron (or any other oil company) actually significantly more
>environmentally responsible that the others?

I am not sure about other companies or other instances but Chevron did
set aside a bunch of beach land near their ElSegundo Refinery in S.
California for the sole purpose of helping preserve the ElSegundo Butterfly.
If I remember correctly the company did it with very little outside
pressure.

Bought any Exxon gas lately ??

Allen R. Sanderson

Salt Lake City, Oootah


"Pucky lads, a wee bit over their heads"

	Doug Scott after encountering two climbers
	on Denali suffering from exposure.
From: derry@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John Derry)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Coleman lantern wanted
Keywords: Equipment
Date: 29 Jul 92 18:40:58 GMT
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology


I want to buy a Coleman model ?? 237 ?? KEROSENE mantle lamp.  It has a  
nickel-plated font.

Should be functional, complete, and not beat up.  Owner's manual would be  
nice.

Send replies to:  

                  derry@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: long pants/shorts
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 18:27:52 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Jul25.143242.7692@news.media.mit.edu>
geek@media.mit.edu (Chris Schmandt) writes:
>If you want to know how to dress in the desert, look how people who live
>in the desert dress.

Excellent.
Time to show Lawrence of Arabia again as the Sunday night movie.

"The goal is not to mind it...."
"I shall drink when you shall drink."
"He was nothing.  The well is everything.  You are my guest."
"Politics."

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
From: Peter Beckman <beckman@moose.cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Cairns, Flags, and Fixed Wands
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:09:53 -0500

If "users" of the backcountry build cairns, shouldn't other users be
able to knock them down?  If some "official group" (NPS, etc) wants to
mark a trail, they can do it permanently.  Cairns are created by
users.  Why should the right of a user to disturb the wilderness by
building a cairn take precedence over my right to restore it to its
semi-natural state.  Users can only BUILD cairns?  Silly.  -Pete
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: mdm24@cas.org (Matthew D. Marquand)
Subject: Re: MSR Firefly
Keywords: stoves
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:25:30 GMT

jhardy@milton.u.washington.edu (J. Hardy) writes:

>I am considering purchasing a rebuilt Firefly stove from the MSR factory here
>in seattle.  Before
>I do this I was wondering if anyone out there in net land had any experience
>with these stoves.  My primary concern is whether they will do any better
>job of simmering than the whisperlites do.  It seems to me that they probably
>should as they have an additional valve control after the generator.  I
>realize that MSR no longer makes these stoves.  Their report to me is that
>they stopped making them because they became to expensive to manufacture.
>They do continue to support the stove and make rebuild kits for it however.

>Any comments on how these stoves compare to the whisperlite and to the
>Coleman stoves would be greatly appreciated.

My brother in-law has a MSR Firefly and I've used it a couple of times.
I didn't compare the simmering times with the Whisperlites as I didn't
have mine at the time but now that do, I've found that controlling
a simmering size flame is much easier on the Whisperlite.  His Firefly
had two control valves to adjust the flame intensity and I never was able to
keep a steady low flame without a lot of attention.

>Thanx

Your welcome

>jim hardy
>jhardy@milton.u.washington.edu

Matthew D. Marquand
mdm24@cas.org
--
Matthew D. Marquand (mdm24, ext. 2953, room 3454B)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,misc.rural
From: phantom@sequent.com (Bert Pelca)
Subject: Re: Goin' to Alaska
Keywords: Alaska
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 23:19:47 GMT

Leaving 7/30 .. coming back (some think I might not) around
9/1.  Towing a 30ft Bayliner to Pr. Rupert BC.  Put in and
head for Ketchikan.. gas and provison up and then make a
4 week arc from Kasan Bay around the souther tip of Pr. of
Wales Is. to Craig and back to Ketchikan/Pr. Rupert.

Rigged for Salmon, Halibut, Lingcod/Yelloweye, stream and
lake trout, crabs and shrimp (900' if need be). 

(I just hope the Bombay Saphire holds out !!)


Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:5523 misc.legal:14767
From: hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,misc.legal
Subject: Re: liability for trip organizers?
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:43:20 GMT
Followup-To: rec.backcountry
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

alan@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov writes:

>I'm wondering if anyone's ever thought about the liability in getting friends
>from work or wherever together to go backpacking.  If someone breaks a leg
>or worse, can you be sued?  I'm always operated on faith and never had a 
>problem, but the more I do this kind of thing, the more I wonder, especially
>as my friends bring friends, etc.  Part of me says "I'm not making anything
>off this; they know the risks" and part of me says "Get some insurance and
>cover yourself".  Opinions would be appreciated.  E-mail is preferred.
>Thanks!

(I sent email to Alan but this is likely to be of general interest
so will post my blatherings for what they are worth.  Any lawyers
are certainly welcome to add comments, corrections etc.)

Well I'm not a lawyer but I suppose I should confess to the heinous
crime of having a lawyer friend.  Obviously what I say is not as
reliable as what you would get from a lawyer (assuming you could get
a straight answer from one :-)).  Furthermore a lot of this kind of
thing will vary with jurisdiction so what applies in one area may
not apply elsewhere.  However I think there are some general
guidelines you can use to protect yourself:

1.  Make *sure* party members are aware of the risks.  The courts
will frown on you if you have misrepresented risk and enticed
somebody into something they might not have attempted had they 
known the risks.

2.  *Never* overstate your qualifications.  If you've never done
anything like this before, say so.

3.  Be careful to use good practices and safety measures.  You
probably won't loose a suit over a really freak accident but you
will almost certainly loose if you cause an accident through
negligence.  If you decide to go into bad or deterioriating weather
you could be setting yourself up for real trouble.  However if that
storm even fooled the weatherman you may have a good defense.

4.  Do not take on more than you can handle.  Leading a group of
competent people is one thing but if you are in charge of a bunch of
neophytes be sure you can handle it.  Limit party size to the number
you can keep close track of.  Otherwise one of them may do something
foolish while you are helping someone else and you can be held
liable for not watching everyone.

There are probably other good things to do.  I think the main thing
is to pay careful attention to safety at all times.  One professor I
had used the question, "Did you do what a reasonable and prudent 
person would do?"  This guy had been president of a Jr. college 
which lost a cheerleader to a heart attack.  The college was held not 
liable because they had required a medical exam which had given the 
girl a clean bill of health.  Without this they would have almost 
certainly lost a large lawsuit.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill)
Subject: Re: NOTE: Bigfoot/Sasquatch Information
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 01:55:35 GMT


   The majority of "investigators" in this field do not believe that the
"government" knows these animals exist. Why would they? Even most investigators
(myself included) don't positively believe such animals exist, but when you
hear a realistic story from somebody with nothing to gain and everything to
lose...you have to wonder...and look.
-- 
"A large creature about 7 1/2 to 8 foot tall. It was greyish black in color,
and as it went away from me I seen the backside of it walking as a man would
walk on it's hind legs."- Former Sheriff Oliver Potter, Vancouver, Washington
The Cryptozoology Information Network. Want on our Email mailing list? Amiga!
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.bicycles,rec.skiing