HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: marquis@netcom.com (Roger Marquis)
Subject: Re: NCCA - Let's Fix It
Organization: Netcom 
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 01:12:17 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.213559.22121@leland.Stanford.EDU> sjlt@leland.Stanford.EDU (Sean Lev-Tov) writes:
>Football has defined offensive and defensive teams that rarely have
>players on both teams.  

Hmmm, are you proposing that men's and women's football teams should
have points divided between them for an overall championships?  I'm
not sure that offensive and defensive football squads are analogous.

>men's and/or women's champ as well).  I think that to try to be the
>best, a team would concentrate on its stronger team (men vs. women) and
>that would have the same result as separating the sexes for scoring.

Agreed.  I think that, for National championships at least, a team
_should_ concentrate on its strongest riders.  After all, they are the
ones who have put in the most effort.  Why shouldn't a championships
reflect this fact?  Teams that send under-qualified riders do those
riders a disservice.  Not only do these riders get dropped but they
lose their self-esteem because of it.  I know I have always felt bad
when given sponsorship which I couldn't earn, especially when there
are others who did earn the right and didn't go (to nationals, Coors,
whatever).

>Ah!  Bringing more people into the sport.  If we look at what will 
>happen by separating the sexes for scoring, I think it's obvious that
>the team that is weak (men's or women's) will wither away since the
>stronger team will concentrate on itself and not care at all about
>the other team.  

This seems to be the strongest argument for keeping the championships
together, that it will help develop the women's ranks.  But there is
no proof that this is in fact what is occurring.  A case can also be
made that the combined championships deters women from participating.
Placing an inordinate amount of responsibility on inexperienced and
unprepared women riders many will simply choose not to participate for
fear of letting the team down.  In short, there is no indication that
a combined championships helps women's cycling.

>I guess if we put it to a vote, people would at first thought vote
>the way that best benefits their own team.  

Unfortunately, this is true.  It would be better to vote for what's
best for the largest number of riders, regardless of gender.  Either
way, IMHO, a separate championship would be best.

>I'm for bringing more people in and leaving things the way they are
>now.  If you take away the combined scoring, you take away any incentive
>for the men and women to work together (incentive from both sides, that
>is; obviously the weaker team will always be helped by the stronger
>team).
>
>Sean

I'm not so sure Sean.  I think we need to try it the other way before we
can determine if this is in fact true.  There are many reasons for the
lack of female participation in our sport (but that's another topic).
The question is whether the combined championships addresses this
problem.  We have no way of determining this without trying it both
ways.

Roger Marquis
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: emumford@nyx.cs.du.edu (Eric Mumford)
Subject: Chain lubing in winter vs. spring/sum.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 15:51:28 GMT

I have a paper route and use my bike every morning in snow, slush, salty 
roads, etc.  Bad conditios.  I try to wipe everything off and keep the chain
from rusting, but it's hard.  I would like to get suggestions on what to put
on the chain during the winter or really cold times, as it dries out quick.
Currently I just throw on some WD-40, but the guy in the bike shop last
summer said that was a sin.. (maybe he meant for summer riding, I don't know)
so he gave me this $5/can "Professional Chain Lubricant".  I know I probably
got taken for a ride, story of my life, right?  But anyway, suggestions would
be welcomed as to my little dilemma here.  TIA..

---							   The Guess Who (1972)
No time for a summer friend, no time for the love you send.        ____________
Seasons change and so did I- You need not wonder why,	           Eric Mumford
You need not wonder why- there's no time left for you.	 emumford@nyx.cs.du.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: feng@cs.uiuc.edu (Wuchun Feng)
Subject: Flat Tires
Reply-To: Wuchun Feng <feng@cs.uiuc.edu>
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 06:26:10 GMT

Hi,

I recently bought a Bridgestone RB-1 with Continental Grand Prix 700x23c
tires (instead of the Ritchey Road Force 700x28c).  In less than one mile of
riding, I've managed to get two flats.  In the past, I used Grand Prix's on
my old Cannondale R500 and never had a single flat (which was pretty amazing
considering the amount of riding that I did).

Anyone out there in net-land have any idea what I'm doing wrong?

Background info:
  The tires were inflated properly (115-120 psi) before they flatted.
  The rims are Ritchey Vantage Comp, 32-hole (the ones that come with the bike)
  The tube was Bridgestone (the ones that come with the bike).

Please post responses or e-mail me at feng@cs.uiuc.edu

Thanks,
Wu


-- 
Wuchun Feng // feng@cs.uiuc.edu // University of Illinois // Urbana, IL 61801
From: cs92mjd@cen.ex.ac.uk (M.J.Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Mathematics of gears and why 24-36-46 is bad
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:39:44 GMT
	<C15uwz.39t@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca> <C19CDM.M1p@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk>
	<16B5E13651.EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu> <1k1v10INNelh@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>
Organization: Computer Unit. - University of Exeter. UK

In article <1k1v10INNelh@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> haverl@cats.ucsc.edu (Carl A Haverl) writes:

   >When I replaced the cranks on my mountain bike, the gearing changed
   >from 26-36-46 to 24-36-46.  With the new chainwheels and chain, shifting
   >from the smallest chainring was very difficult.  I generally had to
   >overshift into (if not onto) the largest chainwheel and then back the
   >chain off onto the middle ring.  Shifting performance didn't not improve
   >or "wear in" after several months of daily commuting (800ft vertical).

[stuff deleted]

   >The solution?  Going back to 26-36-46 solved my problems.  Since
   >gcd(26,36)=2, I have 26/2=13 different shift positions off the small
   >ring so one of them is bound to line up well.  Also, gcd(36,46)=2
   >so there are 36/2=18 different shift positions off the middle ring to
   >the larger ring.

   >Other good possibilities would be 24-38-48 or 24-34-46, etc.

Are you totally sure about this? I mean, don't take this the wrong way, but
I would have thought that some component manufacturers multi-million dollar
reaearch budget would have spotted this one. But then, since a certain r&d
department came up with biopace and STI, perhaps not. Anyway, by way of a 
counterexample, I run 24-36-48 (strange but true) without this problem (at 
least not that I've noticed). 

If you really want to do some gear-related mathematics of this sort, have a
crack at working out my friend's 24-35-47 chainrings :-). No, I'm not
kidding, that's really what they are.

This all sounds suspiciously like Jobst Brandt's department...

Mikey D
From: jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:43:59 GMT
Subject: Re: Wheel Wonderings
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech

Aurelio Barranco writes:

> I'm not seriously considering building such a wheel, I just want
> to get my brain around the way you describe how a wheel works.
> Why is the limit set by the original spoke tension when the spoke
> itself is capable of withstanding greater loads.  Forget side to
> side forces, I'm interested in a stationary wheel or one rolling
> in a straight line. This is all theoretical of course :)

I think you are still holding on to the concept that the hub is
hanging on the top spokes.  I draw this conclusion from your comment
that "the spoke itself is capable of withstanding greater loads".
Yes, in tension, but the spokes are not being used as tension
elements.  They are prestressed and are being used as compression
elements so their carrying limit is when they go slack and can no
longer perform any structural function.  WHen the bottom spokes
become slack, the rim has no contact with the hub except by the
relatively small lateral bending stiffness.  If you don't believe
that this strength is small you need only to take a loosely spoked
wheel , hold it like a car steering wheel while pressing its axle
into the floor.

Buckling is a common phenomenon in long slender beams for which
there are equations.  The equations are largely governed by the
unbraced length of the column under compression.  The rim has no
bracing when several spokes become slack so that without even a side
load, the rim tends to bow to the side.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
From: greg@redeye.EBay.Sun.COM (greg)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: take a seat, get a grip
Date: 27 Jan 93 01:23:46 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: redeye.ebay.sun.com


Gee, now you tell me!

I bought a gel seat and gel grips.  They look great, but I'm
always worried about theft.  They also make riding much more
pleasurable.  Especially my favorite downhill!

Greg
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.tech:3496 rec.bicycles.misc:2260
From: piaw@peoplesparc.Berkeley.EDU (Na Choon Piaw)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Experience using Cannondale Overland Panniers?
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:38:02
Organization: /home/central/users/piaw/.organization
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: peoplesparc.berkeley.edu

Does anyone have any experience using Cannondale Overland Panniers for
touring?  Did you like them?  Were they worth the money?  How durable
were they?

Reply by e-mail and I'll summarize.

Thanks,
Piaw
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: sjlt@leland.Stanford.EDU (Sean Lev-Tov)
Subject: replace or repack headset?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 15:56:55 GMT

I've got a question.  My headset grinds a little.  Although
I saw some roughness in the races (pitting I guess) about 8
months ago when I repacked it, the headset has no indexing.
I'm wondering if I should just repack it with new bearings
(fast and cheap), or if having a headset in brand new cond-
ition is really desirable.  Getting a new one would mean
bucks and leaving the bike at the shop.  What do you think?
Repack or replace?  Thanks a lot in advance.

Sean Lev-Tov

From: brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:22:51 GMT
Subject: Re: Wheel Wonderings
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech

Speaking of kevlar, in one of the mountain bike mags, I saw an advert for
a 'geodesic' wheel using kevlar cording.

Anybody know anything about this?  Any advantages (to the cyclist, I presume
the maker gets a fortune...) to this approach?

Pete Brooks, thinking of making a set of loaded touring wheels.

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: spowers@spdg.com (Steve Powers)
Subject: Re: Shimano and SunTour freehubs
Organization: Stratos Product Development Group (Seattle)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:39:45 GMT

In article <1460064@hplred.HPL.HP.COM> jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt) writes:
>Mark Chandler writes:
>
>> SunTour is coming out with evenly spaced cogsets.  I assume that
>> they'll be changing their shift levers accordingly.
>
>I don't believe there will be any change because looking at the
>control plate in the shift lever, I see uniformly spaced holes.

I must agree with Jobst on this point, as I have been researching
just this problem for about 3 weeks now. SunTour is just adding
another cog at the appropriate spacing, albeit nearly 3mm.

>I have been using SunTour New Winner Pro freewheels with both
>Shimano and SunTour derailleurs with no difficulty.  The sprocket

I think Jobst meant to say, "derailleurs and shift levers". The
derailleur simply follows the mechanics of the shifter. Some
derailleurs follow orders better than others. I am using a Shimano
HG cassette with SunTour XC Pro shifters and rear derailleur
with no problems.

>spacing of all but the smallest sprocket is uniform anyway other
>than normal tolerances on the order of less than 0.1 mm.
>

Precisely why the above works. Don't always believe what you are
told. If Shimano really wants to make things incompatible, they'll
have to change the chain pitch. There's just so much room back
between the dropout and wheel to get 7 or 8 cogs.

Happy shifting !

- steve
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: ???Pedros???
From: vannuysd@vax.sonoma.edu
Date: 26 Jan 93 08:12:26 -0800
Organization: Sonoma State University

If Mobil 1 + food color  = Pedro's SynLube, then what = Pedro's SynGrease?

David Van NuysIn article <8438@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM>, jmyers@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM (Jonathan E Myers) writes:
> In article <1993Jan23.044951.60930@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> sjm3@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SALEM JON MAZZAWY) writes:
>>Let me just say:
>>    Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil+food coloring=Pedros Syn lube
>>This has been tested.   The Mobil brand is MUCH cheaper.
>>                                Salem
> 
> Could you provide a bit more detail.  Who was this tested by?
> What viscosity of Mobil 1?  Do you use Mobil 1 or Pedros?
> I have been happy with Pedros, but would not mind saving some
> money.
> 
> 		Thanks,
> 			Jon Myers
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: WD-40 To Clean Chains???
From: alanb@sdl.ug.eds.com (Alan Braggins)
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:56:37 GMT
Organization: Shape Data (Division of EDS), Cambridge UK
In-reply-to: vannuysd@vax.sonoma.edu's message of 23 Jan 93 23:52:37 GMT

>>>>> On 23 Jan 93 23:52:37 GMT, vannuysd@vax.sonoma.edu said:

> In either Bicycling or MBA, I read an article that suggested using WD-40        
> to clean your bike chain.  I tried it and really liked the results.  But        
> in the current California Bicyclist, there is an article by a mechanic          
> who tosses off a warning NOT to use WD-40 without giving any rationale.         
> I liked the ease and effectiveness of WD-40.  Anybody know where this guy       
> is coming from in warning us off of it?                                         

I asked about that when I recently bought a better bike. Bike shop said WD-40
was fine, though a specialist lubricant would last longer. Using a "real" chain 
cleaner also seems to do a better job, but for ease of use my old policy of 
"keep squirting it till it runs off clean, then squirt some more" has advantages,
especially in bad weather, and the WD-40 is cheap (5 litle bottle and a hand squirt,
not aerosols).
If there is a reason to avoid it, I'd like to know too.
From: x90watz@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Demise of wool winter jerseys?
Date: 25 Jan 93 09:21:36 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

> 
> What is it with every manufacturer making its jackets and everything else
> almost entirely black?  Now I understand the principles of radiative heat
> transfer with regard to black bodies, but I would prefer to have a jacket that
> is bright fluorescent yellow like my wind-breaker so that cars will see me
> prior to slamming into me.  Does anyone out there know the reason for the
> prevalence of dark winter apparel?
> 
> Larry
> dodd@roebling.poly.edu


	I would suspect that it is due to the unavoidable law of
demand.......manufacturers will make what people want.  And I know that
personally, I like dark clothing.....although it makes commuting a dangerous
prospect.  Maybe you could get reflective tape and put it on the dark coat.  Or
get an XXL windbreaker or something to go over the coat........hope some of
this helps.....

-Mike-
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: spencer@mcc.com (Steve Spencer)
Subject: Tire width question
Organization: MCC, Austin, TX
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:26:33 GMT

I recently purchased a touring bike and I would like to install wider tires on it. 
It currently has 27x1 inch tires on Mavic MA40 rims. What is the widest tire that
will fit on this rim? I would like to put Michelin Hi Lite touring tires (27x1 3/8)
on it. 

Thanks,
Steve  (spencer@mcc.com)
From: vannuysd@vax.sonoma.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: WD-40 To Clean Chains???
Date: 23 Jan 93 23:52:37 GMT
Organization: Sonoma State University

In either Bicycling or MBA, I read an article that suggested using WD-40        
to clean your bike chain.  I tried it and really liked the results.  But        
in the current California Bicyclist, there is an article by a mechanic          
who tosses off a warning NOT to use WD-40 without giving any rationale.         
I liked the ease and effectiveness of WD-40.  Anybody know where this guy       
is coming from in warning us off of it?                                         









                                                                                

David 
Van Nuys
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: H.ZIERKE@BI-LINK.owl.de (Hans-Joachim Zierke)
Organization: Private Site in Berlin
Subject: Re: Spoke Tension by hand
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 13:00:00 +0100
X-Mailer: CrossPoint v2.1 R/211
X-Gateway: ZCONNECT UI sisyphos.owl.de [UNIX/Connect v0.12]


On 21.01.93, jwgst2+@pitt.edu writes:

> 	For what it's worth, I've only *ever* seen one wheel that wasn't laced,
> on a cheapo department store bike (the rear wheel).

So you didn't see the front wheel of my loaded touring bike, used for
traveling over bad roads in eastern europe with 12kg of luggage on the
front lowmount and about 40 of my 90kg distributed to the front wheel.
Needless to say, I never had to true it.





Ciao
Hajo

--
Hans-Joachim Zierke  ##  Tel.: +49-30 / 394 8445  ##  Fax: +49-30 / 394 8447
                         h.zierke@bi-link.owl.de
From: tim@computer.bri.hp.com (Tim Phipps)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Spoke Tension by hand
Date: 21 Jan 1993 08:44:18 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Computer Peripherals Division, Bristol, UK
Reply-To: tim%hpcpbla.bri.hp.com@hplb.hpl.hp.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: computer.bri.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

: Huh?  I thought the idea of cross spoking is that the spokes touch.
: Are you talking about radial spoking?  

No, but most cross spoked wheels have the outside spokes passing on the
inside of the inside spokes at the last crossing point before the rim, at the
other two (maybe less) cross points nearer the hub the outside spokes stay on
the outside.

I don't know why they do this, it adds work to building a rim, you have to
bend the spokes and you can never get them straight again, you can't judge
tension by plucking and if a spoke breaks the one it crosses goes slack as
well.

Cheers,
Phippo the Hippo.
From: srgxnbs@grace.cri.nz
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: WD-40 To Clean Chains???
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 02:58:28 GMT
Organization: Industrial Research Ltd., New Zealand.
NNTP-Posting-Host: grv.grace.cri.nz

>From: markm@iris.polymer.uakron.edu (Mark Alan Matties)
>Subj: Re: WD-40 To Clean Chains???
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 07:51:49 GMT
>
>In article <68840001@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM>, eisele@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Jon Eisele) writes:
>|> > I liked the ease and effectiveness of WD-40.  Anybody know where this
>|> > guy is coming from in warning us off of it?
>|> WD-40 seems to attract and hold dirt.  Also, you still need to apply
>|> some other lubricant as WD-40 won't last long (especially if it rains).
>|> 
>|> Jon
>
>what about wd40 as a cleaning agent then a "real" grease to lube the chain?
>
>msquared
>

I'm not a bike expert but if wd40 is like a product called CRC I 
sprayed a lock once to clean it and jammed it completely. The 
locksmith said that the CRC actually helped the grit to travel
further into the mechanism, so perhaps this stuff could do more
harm than good unless you actually wash the chain in it?

Bruce
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: jpanusa@sol.UVic.CA (John Panusa)
Subject: Tubulars..
Originator: jpanusa@sol.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, B.C. CANADA
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 19:03:39 GMT

I just bought a classic Colnago spec'd with tubulars,
as I've never used tubulars, could someone offer some
advice as to what to bring along while riding? (ie. type
of spare tire? glue? glue container? levers? etc.)

Also, any other advice that makes tubular life easier
would be appreciated....

Thanks!

Gianpaolo Panusa

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: zeke@chiton.ucsd.edu (Rob Scott)
Subject: Re: WD-40 To Clean Chains???
Summary: WD-40 doesn't contain water.
Organization: Scripps Institution of Oceanography, UC San Diego
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 01:32:53 GMT

In article <C1Dwxt.E0u@cs.uiuc.edu> tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) writes:
>
>I've been told that WD-40 contains water so it's not a good idea to use it
>as a lubricant.  Don't know if that's true or not though.
>
 
 
WD-40 does not contain water.
 
Here's an interesting bit of history, learned from a local newspaper article.
The company that makes WD-40 is based here in San Diego, and just had its
50th anniversary.  WD-40 (in various packaging) is the only product that they
make, and they have been immensely successful (for a small business) with it.
The name is derived from a series of experiments that the military commissioned
during World War II to find a solvent that could be used to treat metal that
had been exposed to water.  WD-40 is based on the 40th formula tried, and thus
its name "WD-40" is short for "water displacement formula 40".
 
 
 
Rob
                    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     Rob Scott, System Administrator for the Marine Physical Laboratory
            Scripps Institution of Oceanography, UC San Diego
    Internet: zeke@mpl.ucsd.edu  Cserve: 76176,637  Voice: (619)534-5503

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam)
Subject: Re: Groupsets suck!!
Reply-To: Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Distribution: rec
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:14:09 GMT

In <5883@gold.gvg.tek.com> jimd@pequod.gvg.tek.com (Jim Delwiche) writes:

>What is the interchangeability of hubs and cassettes?  Is there any
>compatability between, say, Shimano <-> Suntour, or even Shimano <->
>Campy?  

>I'm talking only about the mating of the cassette to the hub.  

The manufacturers use different spline patterns for their cogs, so 
you can't interchange them.  Also, Shimano and SunTour each have 
more than one spline pattern.  You can't put Hyperglide cogs on a 
non-hyperglide hub, or MicroDrive cogs on a standard SunTour hub.  
Think of the freehub body like a freewheel -- different freewheel 
bodies also take different cog types, even if the end results are 
compatible.  
-- 
 Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@happy-man.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: P.Etheridge@massey.ac.nz (Phil Etheridge)
Subject: Re: WD-40 To Clean Chains???
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: SMIS, Massey University
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 93 03:08:26 GMT

srgxnbs@grace.cri.nz (Bruce ?)wrote:

> I'm not a bike expert but if wd40 is like a product called CRC I 
> sprayed a lock once to clean it and jammed it completely. The 
> locksmith said that the CRC actually helped the grit to travel
> further into the mechanism, so perhaps this stuff could do more
> harm than good unless you actually wash the chain in it?

This is of the original thread, but a locksmith once told me to NEVER oil a
lock.  The oil gums up the tumbler mechanism.  The best lube for a lock is
graphite powder.

--
Phil Etheridge               P.Etheridge@massey.ac.nz
Macintosh Consultant         Phone: +64+6-356-9099 x8689
SMIS, Massey University      Fax:   +64+6-350-5611
Palmerston North, NZ         40*23'S 175*37'E,    GMT+13