HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shire@dorsai.com (Kenneth Shire)
Subject: Re: Valkyrie recordings
Organization: The Dorsai Embassy, New York's Computer Consulate. +1.718.729.5018
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 15:41:29 GMT

Jon, may I enter a dissenting vote.  Having suffered through all of the 
Vickers performances as Siegmund at the Met back in 1974 (?) when the Met 
ran its pathetic Karajan-abandoned-and-Weber-finished Ring cyle, the man 
was insufferably self-important both on-stage and in the interviews he 
gave blowing his own horn (forgive the Wagnerian metaphor, which is more 
appropriate to Siegfried interpreters, of course).  To my ears, Vickers 
had a bleaty instrument of the James Macracken school of vocal technique. 
But what was worse than the overdriven use of head tones, was that 
Vickers thought he was such hot stuff.  I've heard that he was at 
Bayreuth for exactly one season, because he had the temerity to tell 
Wieland Wagner how to direct the Ring, at least as far as his own 
"interpretation" of Siegmund was concerned.  If you want to "hear" 
Vickers as I experienced him, all you have to do is listen to tapes of 
the Met radio broadcasts of his Otello.  Almost without fail, the ship 
would sail in with Vickers in the poop and he would break on the 
Esultate.  Same thing was true of his act 3 Tristans whenever I heard 
broadcasts.  

Well, enough Vickers bashing, as the man has stopped singing in my neck 
of the woods.  On a more positive note, consider either Windgassen or the 
under-rated Ramon Vinay.  Though these men had very different timbres, 
each could produce a beautiful tone and expressively moving 
interpretation of the Wagnerian heldentenor roles.  For sheer beauty of 
tone, I have to tip my hat to Sandor Konya.  Not the greatest 
singing-actor, but no slouch in the simply gorgeous sound dept.  It is 
our good fortune that Siegfried Jerusalem continues to sing at the Met.  
His interpretations are maturing nicely.  His Young Siegfried is really 
wonderful.  

As long as the thread is on to great tenors, has anyone actually 
seen-and-heard Reiner Goldberg in any Wagnerian roles?  The rumor is that 
he has a small but exquisite voice, though I haven't read anything about 
his acting ability.  All news on this gratefully accepted.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie)
Subject: Re: FYI: Lovely Music....
Organization: Servio Corp, Beaverton Oregon, US
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 02:48:04 GMT

Barry Grant (b-grant@nwu.edu) writes:

> I've listened to Improvement  a couple
> of times. It's not as wonderful as Perfect Lives. It's "stiffer" and the
> music is not as hypnotic. It seems weighted down with intended meanings,
> where PL seems more spontaneous, more playful. I don't like Thomas
> Bruckner's singing either. But I'll say for him that  now whenever someone
> says "Wait a minute please" I hear them sing it like he does. 

Ah, and who can forget Ashley's own 'Aaaannd...', from the original
recording of "The Bar", in Perfect Lives?

    Marc San Soucie
    Portland, Oregon
    marcs@slc.com
From: bwalsh@math.rutgers.edu (Bertram Walsh)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Bruckner (was: Re: Best finale)
Date: 3 Jan 93 23:02:16 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

>"Imagine that you're walking in the Alps.  You look up at a majestic,
>snow-covered mountain.  That is Mahler.  Then you look down at the
>wild flowers growing at your feet.  That is Bruckner."

Exactly backward, except that the flowers are cultivated.

Bertram Walsh  Mathematics Dep't  Rutgers University New Brunswick NJ 08903
From: jseboldt@pnet51.orb.mn.org (John Seboldt)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Favourite Organ Work Survey
Date: 28 Dec 92 19:05:00 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

How can an organist respond to this, with all the riches available...
Nonetheless, I personally nominate "Master Tallis' Testament" by Herbert
Howells from my Anglophile side... Vierne's Symphony No. 3 for my French
side... and the large settings of the Kyrie from the Clavierubung III:
"Kyrie, Gott Vater...", "Christe, aller Welt Trost", and "Kyrie, Gott Heiliger
Geist" from Bach's late statements in the polyphonic "stile antico".

: John Seboldt...Mpls, MN...As a ham, K0JD...as a human...well,... :
:    UUCP:{crash, tcnet, petrus, quest}!orbit!pnet51!jseboldt      :
:                 INET:jseboldt@pnet51.orb.mn.org                  :      
:  -<:o)              Unix soit qui mal y pense             -<:o)  :
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: SURVEY: FAVORITE PIANO CONCERTO
From: Robert Haskins <RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET>
Date: Wednesday, 23 Dec 1992 09:42:25 EST
Organization: University of Maryland at Baltimore

zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Grabowski) writes:
                                                      `
> I must admit I'm starting to enjoy these "Greatest All-Time" and "Favorite"
> threads, so I'm starting another one.  :-)   The question is, What is your
> favorite piano concerto?
>
> And a very important sub-question: What's your favorite *Beethoven* piano
> concerto?

My favorite piano concerto is Brahms's second.  My favorite Beethoven
piano concerto used to be the Fourth, but now it's the "Emperor."

Bob
From: acid+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Colby)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Beginning a classical collection
Date: 28 Dec 92 23:49:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.Bzzu6w.KG2.1
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Dec28.091408.16539@leland.Stanford.EDU> paulxxxx@leland.Stanford.EDU (paulastya gupta) writes:

>2) Last time I was at the local music store, I compared several CDs 
>of Tchaikovsky's 1812 overture, and noticed that the times differed
>by as much as 1 minute!  Does this mean that it may be slightly cut
>off in the shorter time performance?  This complicates CD buying.

Almost certainly not.

>3) Should one look only for DDD recordings as opposed to ADD or AAD?
>This further complicates CD purchasing.

Don't pay attention to this, although you might want to be aware when
something is mono instead of stereo.  Among stereo recordings, a more
recent vintage does NOT, contrary to intuition, generally correspond to
better sound quality.  Going for sound quality is tough work, and the
issues in question (4) far outweigh this factor.

>4) Should one look for particular condutors/orchestras performing that
>piece?  This really complicates CD selection!

Yes, CD selection is very complicated.

It is a nasty situation, because you don't want to spend money on something
you're not sure of, and yet there is usually not really an easy way that
you will be sure of it until you DO spend money on lots of discs.  At this
stage, don't concern yourself *too* much with the particular performance,
but don't ignore it, either.  With a little effort, you can win a lot:

* Borrow or buy the _Penguin Guide to Budget Compact Discs_.  Prices of
  classical CDs are a complicated matter, but suffice it to say that there
  are several different price points.  This book sticks with lower-cost
  discs.  But the great secret is that you can very often get a wonderful
  performance of a piece at a lesser price.  Price seems to generally have
  more to do with marketing than quality; for instance, new releases are
  almost always expensive, and you pay all that extra money for a
  performance that hasn't even stood the test of time!  So that is why this
  guide is such a great thing.  Now of course its three authors aren't the
  last word on classical music, but it is a compact, consistent, reasonably
  complete resource.  Furthermore, they often comment on the compositions
  as well, which will be good for you.  You will learn in time how much
  your sensibilities match theirs, but I have found theirs very reasonable.
  The only thing I'll say is that you should take with a grain of salt any
  recommendation of theirs of a recording with Karajan conducting.  I
  should also mention that the PG comments on sound quality, although IMHO
  they seem occasionally offbase in that arena.

* Check the public or school libraries near you.  You may be able to try a
  disc before buying.

Good luck!

-chris
From: jamesc@bassclar.Eng.Sun.COM (James Langdell)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Most drawn-out ending (Was: Best endin
Date: 23 Dec 1992 22:54:24 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jamesc@bassclar.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: bassclar

gordon@dcs.exeter.ac.uk (Gordon Watson) writes:
>Beethoven must have been inspired by Dudley Moore's famous
>skit where he plays a peice that ends continually for 4/5 minutes.
>Its been years since I saw this, but I remember having
>stomach pains from uncontrollable laughter.

Sheet music for that never-ending piano piece was published
recently in a new edition of the script of "Beyond the Fringe,"
the Cambridge-originated revue that Dudley Moore created along
with Alan Bennet, Peter Cook, and Johnathan Miller.  The book also
provides notation for several of the art song parodies that were part 
of that show.

--James Langdell     jamesc@eng.sun.com

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: vlad@netcom.com (Vladimir Kuznetsov)
Subject: Re: RFV: BRUCKNER RE: THE BEST
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 22:57:25 GMT

In article <1992Dec27.173906.16090@athena.mit.edu> syliao@athena.mit.edu (Stan Yi-Huang Liao) writes:
>
>Now there are at least three of us on this net who like Bruckner's
>music.  So we are expecting 297 votes on the "other side" now.
>
>                                                         Stan

I am a great admirer of Bruckner's music too. That makes four of us.

vlad

-- 
Vladimir Kuznetsov                         (408)252-5455
Natural Intelligence Consulting            vlad@netcom.COM
                                           73437,3344@compuserve.com
From: msains@ibis.ru.ac.za (Malcolm Sainsbury)
Subject: Re: Greatest living pianist (Was Re: Prokofiev, Scriabin, Piano works)
Organization: IS Department, Rhodes University
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 07:41:16 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.045522.13618@debbie.cc.nctu.edu.tw> u8011515@cc.nctu.edu.tw (Crazy for Mozart !) writes:

>The greatest living pianist in my mind is Maurizio Pollini.
>                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>He played the pinao concerto No.23 of Mozart is BRAVO!!! 
>--
>wang ming hong

Agreed.  I have his Chopin Etudes.  Though some are not to my taste
most are absolutely brilliant.

Malcolm
--
Malcolm Sainsbury - Dept of Information Systems - Rhodes University
Internet: msains@ibis.ru.ac.za                 Phone: +27 [0]461 22023 xt 244
    uucp: ..!uunet!m2xenix!quagga!ibis!msains    Fax: +27 [0]461 25049
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Subject: Re: Recorded using B&W speakers
Keywords: B&W 
Reply-To: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 06:03:51 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.231924.12811@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> cs748ab@maccs.mcmaster.ca (Andrew Fung) writes:
>I wonder if B&W speakers can save the world recorded music. Before DG uses
>B&W speakers, their recordings are usually contricted and tutti is coarse.
>Sometimes, they have really good recordings, I admit. But after their use of
>B&W speakers, their recordings are now totally different. They are no longer
>compressed, constricted. They now have a wide dynamic and frequency range.
>Some recordings, e.g. Bernstein's late ones, almost want to burn out your
>speakers. Now, Decca (London), EMI are also adopting the use of B&W speakers.
>I wonder if B&W speakers are really that magical?

It isn't a matter of magic.  A speaker will never make a recording better.
A good speaker system, when properly matched with a good aplification system,
will remove various levels of veiling that can be present in a playback
system.  In a properly-set-up system, one can get a truer picture of the
sound stage, a more natural sense of imaging, and a more accurate rendering
of the timbral qualities of the instruments.

Good speakers are only tools through which recording engineers and producers
judge the quality of what they have done with the microphones.  B&W speakers
won't help you make a good recording if you don't know what microphones to 
use and, more importantly, if you don't know how to use them.

There are many, many techniques used for making good stereo recordings.  All
of them are fine in some circumstances and horrid in others.  A well-designed
monitor system lets you judge how well you're doing as an engineer.

The B&W speakers, particularly the 801 Matrix III's and sometimes the 800's,
are thought of as true reference transducers.  There are other models that
also fit this category...including the older Duntech Sovereigns, and the 
current Wilson Audio WATT/Puppy system.   These systems are popular for
recording (and more often, for mastering) work because they give the 
engineer a true picture of what's going to tape.

The advantage of using B&W speakers (or another fine brand) for monitoring
is that you bring out all the flaws in your recording right then and there.
Recordings monitored and judged through transducers of less-than-ideal 
quality often have flaws that are audible through high-end audiophile grade
systems.  Many feel that these problems can be avoided by monitoring on
such a system in the first place.

But no.  B&W speakers aren't magical, and they won't make your recording
sound good if you don't know what you're doing with the microphones.


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael J Valinis)
Subject: TubaChristmas followup
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 23:39:09 GMT

Yesterday evening, in (Thank God!) balmy, mid-40's weather, Merry
TubaChristmas came again to Columbus, Ohio.  We had approximately 400 Tuba
and euphonium players participating on the State House steps before a large
crowd.  The event was covered by three TV stations and several radio stations.
Because of the mild weather we did not have to put up with iced slides, frozen 
valves, or assorted frozen parts on the performers.  The program was jointly 
conducted by Gary Tirey (Otterbein College) and Hervey Phillips (Indiana 
University).  Besides the usual Christmas favorites, there were a few new 
things this year.... a wonderful arrangement of Jingle Bells that suddenly 
transformed itself into E.E. Bagley's "National Emblem" in midstream was a 
great crowd pleaser.  Harvey Phillips delighted the kids in the crowd with a 
rendition of "Santa Wants a Tuba for Christmas" accompanied by Jim Ackers, Tuba
instructor at the Ohio State University and tubist with the Columbus Symphony, 
who then rushed back to the Ohio Theater to prepare for a performance of "The 
Nutcracker."  The one piece which has a tremendous personal impact on me was 
one which was performed as a remembrance of all those loved ones who are no 
longer with us.... Bach's "Komm suesser Tod".... performed quite beautifully, I
might add.  I think everyone there, performers and audience alike, realised 
that they were taking part in something very special, very wonderful....

When a Merry TubaChristmas comes your way at some future date, try to attend 
(or join in!).  Theses events are fast becoming a real tradition at Christmas 
time.

Merry (Insert instrument of your choice)Christmas, everyone.......

Michael
--
-- 
*>   Michael J. Valinis   -=+<*>+=-   mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu   <*
*>=>  "Music is your own experience, your thoughts, your wisdom. If you  <=<*
*>+>=> don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." -Charlie Parker <=<+<*
*>=>+>=>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+<=<+<=<*
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Havergal Brian Symphony
Date: 23 Dec 92 14:23:01
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
	<1992Dec22.173239.597@spang.Camosun.BC.CA>
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA's message of Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:32:39 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.173239.597@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:

   The Gothic (I recall when this was called No.2 but it now seems to be
   No.1) is so enormous that it has only ever been performed maybe half a
   dozen times. You will find it under 'largest symphony' in the Guinness
   Book of Records.

I recall reading that he wrote something even larger, but the score was
apparently lost (Prometheus Unbound).  What's the story on that work?
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write lpf@uunet.uu.net
From: jamesc@bassclar.Eng.Sun.COM (James Langdell)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Most drawn-out ending (Was: Best endings)
Date: 21 Dec 1992 19:36:23 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jamesc@bassclar.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: bassclar

zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Grabowski) writes:
>
>I'm gonna get flamed for this, but...
>
>Beethoven's 5th Symphony.
>
>Sounds like it's going to wrap up about five different times in the finale.

Allan Sherman in the mid 1960's did an album with the Boston Pops, which
included a segment titled "The End of a Symphony."  Sherman did various
schticks during the concluding minutes of each piece at every point
where the music sounded like it could end.  Beethoven was taken to
task for the Egmont Overture and the Fifth Symphony.  Sherman and
company concluded with Schubert's "Great" symphony,
during which he recited rhymes such as these:

  The end of Schubert's Seventh 
  should be drastically diminished.
  He spent so long on this one
  that his Eighth one was unfinished.

and

  I have an urgent message from the
  wife of the concertmaster:
  "Your dinner's getting cold, dear,
  can you play a little faster?"

I wish BMG would reissue that RCA album some time, though "Peter and the 
Commissar" on side 1 might be considered dated by some.  The other 
selection was "Variations on How Dry I Am".

--James
From: rshapiro@bbn.com (Richard Shapiro)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Cage review
Date: 3 Jan 93 18:07:35 GMT
Organization: BBN, Cambridge MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pilsner.bbn.com
In-reply-to: mccomt@aix.rpi.edu's message of Fri, 1 Jan 1993 21:33:42 GMT

Those of you who are interested in Cage, from whatever perspective,
might want to have a look at the current issue of The London Review of
Books. The lead essay is a review of a recent biography of Cage, and
at the same time a fairly well-argued, if sometimes contradictory,
anti-Cage polemic. Worth a look even if you're a fan (as I am).
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: beethoven's symphonies
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Distribution: rec
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 01:33:16 GMT

alexander.inglis@canrem.com ("alexander inglis") writes:
:    >    Subject: beethoven's symphonies
: 
: SMW>In article <1992Dec18.4216.25741@dosgate> "alexander inglis" <alexander.ing
:    >>   >z    Subject: Beethoven's Symphonies
:    >>
:    >>If you'll indulge me, Sams, just next door to HMV, is selling off the
:    >>EMI Furtwaengler discs at C$6.99 each. If you can find all 5, it's a
:    >>bargain. Mono sound, but echt Beethoven in execution.
:    >>
: 
: SMW>How about the Furtwaengler's recording of Beethoven's symphonies on
:    >'Virtuoso' label?  I bought a set of 5 discs including all but the
:    >2nd symphony for only US$18 (in mono, too).  Are they considerably
:    >inferior to his EMI recording, individually or as a whole?  Is there
:    >any EMI disc(s) worth owning in addition to the Virtuoso set?
: 
: Oh-oh ... another label with WF performances floating about ...
: I don't know this one. Could you post -- or e-mail -- the recording dats
: if the box references these? I'm a Furtwaengler nut ....

The Virtuoso set is identical to the Nuova Era, as follows:

Symphony No.1	VPO (Vienna) 30/11/52 (incorrectly labelled 29 November)
Symphony No.3	VPO (Vienna) 30/11/52 (one of the only correctly dated 1952
		Eroicas, and otherwise unavailable)
Symphony No.4	VPO (Munich) 4/9/53 (a joint first choice for JH)
Symphony No.5	BPO (Berlin) 23/5/54 (last recording)
Symphony No.6	BPO (Berlin) 23/5/54 (ditto)
Symphony No.7	VPO (Salzburg) 30/8/54 (ditto, also last concert in
		Salzburg)
Symphony No.8	VPO (Salzburg) 30/8/54 (ditto)
Symphony No.9	VPO,Seefgried,Anday, Dermota, Schoeffler (Vienna)
		31/5/53

JH referred to is John Hunt, chairman of the Wilhelm Furtwaengler
Society UK and compiler of the 4 editions (so far) of The Furtwaengler
Sound. None of the other performances would be a first choice for me -
except maybe the 1st.

A WF fanatic such as yourself should belong to either the UK or US
society and possess the discogrpahy. Mail me for more info.
--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek)
Subject: Re: favorite organ work
Reply-To: pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp. - Telstar
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 19:01:37 GMT

In article <1hp2g1INNmmc@hydra.Helsinki.FI> wikla@cs.Helsinki.FI (Arto Wikla) writes:
>JSB's Toccata & Fugue in F-major.
>
>Arto Wikla, Helsinki, Finland
>


If I had to pick one, it would be the Bach Prelude and Fugue in E-flat.
This is one of the prelude/fugue, toccata/fugue combinations in which
*both* the prelude and fugue are of the highest quality. There are many
in which one or the other is noticably weaker.

For example, in the aforementioned F-major Toccata and Fugue, the Toccata
seems to me to be much the better, whereas in the 'Dorian' Toccata and
Fugue, the fugue is superior.


Don Pajerek

Standard disclaimers apply.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.music.early
From: inr@deimos.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: re: in praise of Monteverdi
Date: 27 Dec 92 20:31:00 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
NNTP-Posting-Host: deimos.caltech.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


 Let me second Francois Velde's praise of the Harnoncourt
Poppea - the final duet is one of the most movingly beautiful
pieces of music I know. And a fine candidate for the best-ending
category that was floating around. 
 The only other recording that comes close (in my view) is
the old Glyndebourne performance with Richard Lewis and a soprano
I should remember but can't. The recording is an abbreviated versuion
of Raymond Leppard's performing edition - not `authentic` by today's
standards, but this (plus Nadia Boulanger's madrigal performances and
recordings) brought Monteverdi out of the shadows. 
Maybe EMI wil re-issue that sometime.

 Neill Reid - inr@eccles.caltech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical