HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dchatterjee@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: In Seething India, Village Peaceful
Date: 21 Jan 93 12:00:27 CST
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <21JAN199310033839@zeus.tamu.edu>, imc7142@zeus.tamu.edu (CHOUDHURY, IFTEKHARUDDIN MOHAMM) writes:
>..... (deleted) .....
> Fundamentalism does not exist at the grass-roots level. It is usually
> the establishment that uses religion as a tool for exploitation and
> to strengthen its otherwise weak base.
> 
> Iftekhar Choudhury
> Texas A & M University
>

  I cannot agree less with you. Thus, change in political structure in any
  democratic process is not going to eliminate poverty. Poverty is the major
  concern for people who are Hindus and Muslims in towns like Roshangarh.

  How many people know that ?

   - deb chatterjee
  (a good samaritan) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: rafatm@sage.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)
Subject: Re: Secular, Muslim Brotherhood and Changes
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:42:22 GMT

In article <AKGOEL.93Jan27103919@plg.waterloo.edu>, akgoel@plg.waterloo.edu (anil k goel) writes:
>    Durgapuja and Kalipuja are national holidays. In reverence
>    to the Christian minority, Bara Din (Christmas) is also a holiday.
>    In an Islamic state, such actions are still possible. 
> 
> 
> Hmm... no, I don't see how it is possible for an Islamic state to declare
> Durgapuja or Kalipuja as a national holiday. Remember, "there is no God, but
> Allah".
    If you`re famialiar with the constitution of Bangladesh, then you must know
that it specificaly states that Bangladesh is a religious state. This ammendmentwas recomended and implemented during Ershad`S regime, and has not been       
invalidated by the current parliament. Therefore, Bangladesh is an Islamic Stateat least in theory. Before the ammendment, Durgapuja and Kalipuja were declared
national holidays. The transformation of the constitution did not affect this
status quo. Whether you see it as possible or not is irrelevant. Bangladesh is
an Islamic state according to its constitution, and at the same time has two
holidays (Durgapuja and Kalipuja) which are Hindu.

Rafat Sadiq


Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.nepal,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.tamil
From: cobra@ravel.udel.edu (KING COBRA)
Subject: Re: Call 1-800-766-1818 for Indian Music Cd's& Read This !
Organization: University of Delaware
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:12:46 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.133830.3845@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> appy@churchill.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Pratul.Sharma) writes:
>In article <1k202vINNa37@aludra.usc.edu> moinuddi@usc.edu (Asif Moinuddin) writes:
>>Dear Friends,
>>
>>	Now, quite a wide variety of Indian music is available on CD's. 
>>	The following categories of music offers more than 2,500 titles 
>>	on Compact Discs. 
>>	You will however have to pay $3.00 through Credit Card for shipping
>>	of the catalog which contains THE LARGEST COLLECTION OF
>>	INDIAN CD'S AND INCLUDES ALMOST ALL THE INDIAN CD'S released
>>	so far. Additionally, you will receive periodic information
>>	about the new releases .
>>
>>	You can also send $3.00 for catalog shipping through a check
>>	payable to Asmara Compact Disc House and mail it to the following
>>	address.
>>
>>		Asmara Compact Disc House
>>		5568 Sepulveda Blvd.,
>>		Culver City CA 90230
>>
>>Alternately, if you don't need the catalog, call 1-800-766-1818
>>and leave your Name and address. You will receive periodic
>>information about the new releases.
>>
>
>
>
>
>This "JOINT" sucks !! 
>I sent $3.00/- to this address and all I got back was a sheet of paper
>with about info about 10-15 cd's,
>
>Talk about trusting these desi's !!
>
>BEWARE!
>
>

 I agree with you. I asked the guy for the address and he wouldn't give it
 to me. I also asked for the brochures so I know what kind of stuff they
 have, and the guy said he will mail it to me. Well it has been a week and
 a half and still no info. 

 I guess we desis don't know how to do business. Columbia House offers 8 free
 CD's when you sign up and this place doesn't even send information. Plus
 the CH's brochures and catalogs are free. 




*******************************************************************************
**   ___  ____  ____  ____  ____  **                                         **
**  /    /   / /___/ /___/ /___/  **   Youth is when you blame all your      **
** /___ /___/ /___/ / \_  /   /   **   troubles on your parents; Maturity    **
**                                **   is when you learn that everything is  **
** E-mail: cobra@chopin.udel.edu  **   the fault of the younger generations. **
**                                **                                         **
*******************************************************************************
From: U4ZQ@UNB.CA (U4ZQ)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: HELP!
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:43:02 GMT
Organization: The University of New Brunswick

I am looking for the address and telephone no., of a friend named : HAFIZUR RAHMAN (SUNNY). He lives somewhere
in New York.  Can anybody help?  Sunny used to play cricket for the
AZAD BOYS CLUB.
From: mkaziz@vela.acs.oakland.edu (KHALED AZIZ)
Subject: Re: Bangladesh: Child Labor 
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 20:40:10 GMT

If child labor is prohibited by law, what alternatives will be open
before these children?  I agree if these children are replaced by adults,
society will be better off in general (at least in the short run). But
I don't think roaming around in streets and leading a carefree life will make
their existence more meaningful.  Our schools are already overloaded and
the way our economy is moving, it would be extremely difficult to
build new schools.  Even if they receive proper schooling, how helpful will
it be for them in the long run?  It will cause a substantial increase in the
number of educated jobless. 

Considering our socio-economic structure, it is only realistic to put more
emphasis on vocational trainings.  If these children can get some hand-on
experience and acquire some skills while making money, I wouldn't think there
is anything wrong with it (as long as their job doesn't require too much
physical strain, like pulling a rickshaw).
  
Child labor is noting unusual in the context of Bangladesh and many other
agricultural societies.  Children have always helped their parents with
farming.  If there isn't anything wrong with that, what's wrong with
working in the garments or some other industry?  

As long as we are unable to come-up with better alternatives for these
children, passing a law against child labor wouldn't make much sense to
me. 


-- 
     KHALED AZIZ               | "Money talks,
mkaziz@vela.acs.oakland.edu    |  But it can't sing and dance, 
mkaziz@argo.acs.oakland.edu    |  And it can't walk."
  			       |  	 	          -NEIL DIAMOND
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: tun@quark.SFSU.EDU (Coban Tun)
Subject: Appeals from B'deshi Buddhists
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 01:47:51 PST
X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA04216; Sat, 23 Jan 93 01:49:43 -0800
X-Received: by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA19237; Sat, 23 Jan 93 01:49:42 -0800
X-Received: by quark.sfsu.edu (4.1/SMI-4.0.1)
	id AA21461; Sat, 23 Jan 93 01:47:51 PST
X-To: soc.culture.bangladesh.usenet

/* Written  3:01 pm  Jan 22, 1993 by bpf@igc.apc.org in igc:reg.seasia */
/* ---------- "Appeal from Bangladeshi Buddhists" ---------- */
AN APPEAL TO HELP AND REHABILITATE THE BUDDHISTS 
AFFECTED BY COMMUNAL DISTURBANCES.

As a consequence of destructions of historic Babri Mosque in
Ayodhya, India, by the Hindu fundamentalists, communal
disturbances flared up all over this subcontinent, resulting in
colossal loss of human lives and properties.

On the 11th and 12th December 1992, a group of miscreants
numbering 400/500 attacked the innocent Buddhist Monks and
villagers at Matain under Senbagh Police Station in Noakhali
District. They caused heavy damage to the only Buddhist temple,
looted away the properties and broke into pieces statues of Lord
Buddha. The miscreants injured the villagers, looted away the
house-hold properties including cash, ornaments, paddy,
furniture, cattle, and set on fire the dwelling houses, kitchen,
and cowsheds of the villagers, and rendered them completely
shelterless without having any food and clothings in this winter
season. About 200 people of 30 houses have been passing their
days in great miseries and the condition of the Children are more
serious for want of proper food and medicine.

Just after the occurrence, the "Young Men's Buddhist Association"
"(YMBA), Comilla, Bangladesh with their limited resources rushed
to the affected village and tried to succor the distress of the
people by distributing food, clothes, medicine, cash, etc.

The extent of damaged will be about Tk. 50,000,000 (fifty lac).
So far, no substantial help has been received by them from the
government or other donor agencies.

Therefore, this appeal is made to all for immediate help to the
affected villagers.

May all beings be happy,
Ven. Shilabhadra Bhikku
Secretary General

For more information- contact:
 YMBA
Baraigaon Kanaka Chaitya Vihar
P.O. Bhora Jagatpur
Laksam, Comilla
Bangladesh

Pubali Bank Ltd.
Daulatgonj Branch
A/C. No. 5698
From: haque@sunray.ece.clarkson.edu (Anisul Haque,,,)
Subject: Re: Origin of the name "Dhaka"
Reply-To: haque@sunray.ece.clarkson.edu
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:30:47 GMT

In article 15217@vela.acs.oakland.edu, mkaziz@vela.acs.oakland.edu (KHALED AZIZ) writes:
> In article <1993Jan23.214038.28144@zip.eecs.umich.edu> bhattach@quip.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) writes:
> >
> >Does anyone know how the name "Dhaka" originated ?
> >
> >-Sayan.
> 
> I believe "Dhaka" was named after "Dhakeswari" temple.
> 

Probably not! Dhaka is a 16th century city, whereas Dhakeswari temple was founded 
in the 17th. Was Dhaka known by some other name then?

> -- 
>      KHALED AZIZ               | "Money talks,
> mkaziz@vela.acs.oakland.edu    |  But it can't sing and dance, 
> mkaziz@argo.acs.oakland.edu    |  And it can't walk."
>   			       |  	 	          -NEIL DIAMOND

Regards,

Anisul Haque
Clarkson University
From: ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Ahmed)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Evolution
Date: 25 Jan 1993 19:17:53 -0500
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: curie.systemsy.cs.yale.edu


In article <1993Jan25.192725.23190@news.nd.edu>, milind@agni.cc.nd.edu (Milind Saraph) writes:
> As some may recall, during a discussion on Islam and Science I was
> trying to understand Shakil's position on evolution.  He started by
> saying that the Quran implies evolution although not in "Darwinist"
> sense.  After talking past each other, the discussion ended when he
> said that in his opinion, there is no inconsistency between the Quran 
> and evolution.  

What I said was that the Qur'an implies evolution, but not
*necessarily* in the Darwinist sense.  The introduction of that one
word completely changes the meaning of the sentence.  That is why it
doesn't necessarily contradict or support Darwinism, it merely states
that everything was created in steps.  Having made this clear, I saw
no need to elaborate further.  Demanding references to non-Darwinist
theories is a pointless exercise in this context.

-- Shakil
From: haque@sunspot.ece.clarkson.edu (Anisul Haque,,,)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Bangladesh: Child Labor (from soc.right
Date: 22 Jan 93 16:48:58 GMT
Reply-To: haque@sunspot.ece.clarkson.edu
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.

In article 93Jan20174516@occs.cs.oberlin.edu, zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan) writes:

> 	That is not the situation in the garments industry, however.
> Since there is nearly perfect worker mobility, the wages must be
> regarded as competitive and thus fair.  If children are working, it is
> probably because they have no choice. In these circumstances, firing them 
> will likely just make them starve. 

Most of the workers in the garment industries are women and children, because 
they are preferred by the employers. They ask for less salary, they don't go 
for trade unions and they don't create troubles. If child labor is banned 
in those places, they have to hire adults at higher salaries (these indusries 
wouldn't drown even if they pay the workers right). It will reduce the labor 
exploitation by the employers. In the long run, this is probably better for the children. Firing the children wouldn't make them starve, it will get their parents 
a better opportunity to feed them, instead of feeding on their children's income.

> 	The condemnation of child labor on the basis of principle
> alone is a mistake.  It would be nice if wages were high enough
> everywhere for a family to be able to afford education and forego the
> earning potential of its children, but that is not the case.  Any talk
> of applying Western "standards" is unfair if it does not acknowledge
> this.

I agree to this part of your statement.

> farewell,
> zeeshan

Regards,

Anisul Haque
Clarkson University
From: MBBOWLER@SUVM.SYR.EDU (Michael Bowler)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Origin of the name "Dhaka"
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:45:54 GMT
Organization: Syracuse University

In article <1993Jan25.143047.18566@news.clarkson.edu>
haque@sunray.ece.clarkson.edu (Anisul Haque,,,) writes:
 
>
>In article 15217@vela.acs.oakland.edu, mkaziz@vela.acs.oakland.edu (KHALED AZIZ) writes:
>> In article <1993Jan23.214038.28144@zip.eecs.umich.edu> bhattach@quip.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) writes:
>> >
>> >Does anyone know how the name "Dhaka" originated ?
>> >
>> >-Sayan.
>>
>> I believe "Dhaka" was named after "Dhakeswari" temple.
>>
>
>Probably not! Dhaka is a 16th century city, whereas Dhakeswari temple was founded
>in the 17th. Was Dhaka known by some other name then?
 
 "Dhaka, previously merely a small town dating from the 4th century,
 received principal status in 1608 when the Moghuls made it their
 capital. The story goes that its name was changed from Jahangir
 Nagar when the first Moghul viceroy was greeted by a chorus of
 of drums, either warning outlying villages or welcoming him.  This
 so impressed him that he ordered the region to be called Dhaka,
 from the Bengali word dhak (drum). An alternative version is that
 the city was named after the Hindu goddess Dhakeswari." (source:
 John Murray, Bangladesh, Berkeley, CA: Lonely Planet, 1991, p. 76)
 
 -Michael Bowler
>> --
>>      KHALED AZIZ               | "Money talks,
>> mkaziz@vela.acs.oakland.edu    |  But it can't sing and dance,
>> mkaziz@argo.acs.oakland.edu    |  And it can't walk."
>>                              |                          -NEIL DIAMOND
>
>Regards,
>
>Anisul Haque
>Clarkson University
>
>
>
>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan)
Subject: Re: Bangladesh: Child Labor (from soc.right
	<1993Jan22.164858.26932@news.clarkson.edu>
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 17:23:35 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1993Jan22.164858.26932@news.clarkson.edu> haque@sunspot.ece.clarkson.edu (Anisul Haque,,,) writes:
>   > 	That is not the situation in the garments industry, however.
>   > Since there is nearly perfect worker mobility, the wages must be
>   > regarded as competitive and thus fair.  If children are working, it is
>   > probably because they have no choice. In these circumstances,
>   > firing them will likely just make them starve. 
>
>   Most of the workers in the garment industries are women and
>children, because they are preferred by the employers. They ask for
>less salary, they don't go for trade unions and they don't create
>troubles. If child labor is banned in those places, they have to hire
>adults at higher salaries (these indusries wouldn't drown even if they
>pay the workers right).  It will reduce the labor exploitation by the
>employers. In the long run, this is probably better for the children.
>Firing the children wouldn't make them starve, it will get their
>parents a better opportunity to feed them, instead of feeding on their
>children's income.

	I can't say I agree with a lot of what you say about adult
garments workers being "underpaid".  It is true that their wages are
very low, but that does not mean that they are being shortchanged - it
only means that their labour is oversupplied and thus practically
useless.  It is probably not true that the firing of child labourers
will result in any substantial increase in wages for the adult
workers, simply because at present there are huge numbers of
unemployed adults who are likely to perpetuate the oversupply of
labour even with the removal of currently employed minors.  So I will
retain my opinion...

	You are right in that the solution must be an increase in the
real wages obtained by adults - thus any course of action which
increases adult employment opportunities will reduce the need of child
labour in the long term.  As Bangladesh becomes more industrialized,
that is exactly what will happen.  But the process will take decades.
What about the short term problem of children starving because their
parents simply don't make enough money to support an unproductive
family?

farewell,
zeeshan
---
zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu
OCMR Box 1529, Oberlin College, Oberlin, Ohio 44074. Phone:(216)775-6447	
	I saw a man pursuing the horizon;
	Round and round they sped...
		"It is futile," I said,
		"You can never--"
		"You lie," he cried,
		And ran on.
			- Stephen Crane



Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: milind@agni.cc.nd.edu (Milind Saraph)
Subject: Re: Evolution
Reply-To: milind@agni.cc.nd.edu (Milind Saraph)
Organization: Univ. of Notre Dame 
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:53:04 GMT

ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Ahmed) writes:

>What I said was that the Qur'an implies evolution, but not
>*necessarily* in the Darwinist sense.  The introduction of that one
>word completely changes the meaning of the sentence.  That is why it
>doesn't necessarily contradict or support Darwinism, it merely states
>that everything was created in steps.

Fair enough.

>Having made this clear, I saw
>no need to elaborate further.  Demanding references to non-Darwinist
>theories is a pointless exercise in this context.

I dont remember making demands for any such references.  I do recall
asking you to elaborate on what you mean by "Darwinist" and 
"non-Darwinist" evolution.  I thought you would post some
anti-evolutionist or "anti-Darwinist" references especially
when you made comments about "Darwinism" being a disputed theory
and some "missing steps" etc.  Phillip Johnson calls himself a
"notorious critic of Darwinism" and seems to disagree with purely
naturalistic view of evolution. 

-- Milind Saraph
From: nns3321@tamuts.tamu.edu (Nripendra Nath Sarker)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Existence of God
Date: 25 Jan 1993 17:55:07 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: tamuts.tamu.edu

Atheist n: one who denies the existence of God.
Syn: Atheist,Agnostic,Deist,Freethinker,,Unbeliever,Infidel.Shared meaning
element: One who does not take an orthodox religious position.

The person x(j) is an UNBELIEVER to the eyes of all x(i), where
i is not equal to j.

A person y(j) asks why God need to prescribe something for a section
of people and create enimity with the others. y(j) is termed as an
unbeliever or an aetheist.

y(j) finds no reason to be feared of God. God is not a human being that 
He acts and reacts in the way we do. Who really knows all about His 
Philiosophy or what ?

How can one flatly label that y(j) should be a bad guy ? 

This y(j) people and some other from x(i) who have 
some strength of y(j) character are the ones who help keep balance
in the midst of disarrays developed in the world.


I am not afraid of God. Becasue God never troubles me. But I am 
careful about human being.
From: rafatm@sage.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Bangladesh: Child Labor
Date: 24 Jan 93 15:41:50 GMT
Organization: Purdue University

In article <1993Jan24.011304.16983@umr.edu>, raza@ee.umr.edu (Md Ishfaqur Raza) writes:
> In article <1993Jan23.204010.29104@vela.acs.oakland.edu> mkaziz@vela.acs.oakland.edu (KHALED AZIZ) writes:
> The best we could do as conscious citizens and symthetizers of these children
> is make sure that the industries provide some sort of education to these
> minors and even adults. It ain't that cost extravagant and would be much
> better than having them throwed out into the streets. If the Public opinion
> was supportive the industries could be forced to do these sort of programmes;
> these are not euphoric.
> 
> 
> Md IShfaqur Raza 
> 

   I think this is the best solution proposed so far. By requiring employers
to look after the long term welfare of their child employees we would be
solving the problem the best way our meager resources permit. The only problem
would be enforcing such legislation.

Rafat Sadiq
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: mghayalo@uceng.uc.edu (Manoj Ghayalod)
Subject: Re: Secular, Muslim Brotherhood and Changes
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 19:13:16 GMT

In article <jhardono.6.727783085@ucs.indiana.edu> jhardono@ucs.indiana.edu (JUMAHADI HARDONO) writes:
>Dear netters,
>     What is happening to our muslims brothers and sisters around
>the world shows to us that our brotherhood and our sensitivity
>among muslims are not too strong. Maybe some of muslims
>themselves are not concerned on the muslim issues around them.
>maybe they only realize the importance of the sensitivity and
>brotherhood when themselve are getting suffered.
>     We must force strongly our government to assist these
>suffered sisters and brothers in any mean that is necessary. We
>cannot let our government ignore the suffer of our muslims around
>us. If they do ignore it, they will be unforgiven. 
>     Sometimes, muslim countries which are far from Bosnia and
>Iraq wonder what the muslims  these countries (across by seas) are doing.
>Have they done something better?... Did they know that their
>brothers and sisters who are living close to them are being
>murders, tortured, bombarded and raped?
>     Unfortunately, most of current muslim countries are being
>ruled by western puppets or beggars . So, we need changes... The
>solution is there... We have to replace our secular government.
>
>
>
>
>hadi... 
>     

Muslims are suffering in other countries, so it seems now you
want non-muslims to suffer in Bangladesh.

Manoj
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: bhattach@quip.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya)
Subject: Re: The Black Hole of Calcutta ?
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 21:37:08 GMT

In article <SAHMED.93Jan23145545@occs.cs.oberlin.edu> sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Saif Ahmed) writes:
>In article <1js61rINN4ta@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU> mahmud-mehdi@yale.edu (Mehdi Asif Mahmud) writes:
>
>	   Does anyone know what "The Black Hole of Calcutta" is/was (will be?)
>   a reference to? Care to enlighten me, please? 
>
>It is an room or dungeon if you will in which Nawab Siraj-ud Dowla
>imprisoned a large number of Europeans including women and children
>most of whom suffocated to death.
>
>

Subsequent research established that this story was probably was a 
fabrication of the British to maligh Siraj-ud-daulah's character.
The incident is said to have occurred during Siraj's attack and 
sacking of Calcutta, in the early 1750's, after which Siraj renamed
Calcutta "Alinagar" after his grandfather Alivardi Khan.

It was, I think, the British chronicler Holwell who first made the
story of the "Black Hole of Calcutta" current. Historians specialising
in Calcutta such as Radharaman Mitra believe that the incident was 
highly exaggerated.

-Sayan