HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tlarson@oregon.uoregon.edu (Tom Larson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: history question -- Ontario Motor Speedway
Date: 18 Aug 92 14:52:53 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon

In article <97620003@misty.boeing.com> glenn@misty.boeing.com (Glenn Cirlincione) writes:

>Here goes:
>I assume it was built primarily for IndyCars who had their first race in 
>1970 (last race was 1980).  Qualifying speeds were similar, for example:

>Indy                 Ontario
>1970  170.22         177.567
>1972  195.940        199.004
>1978  202.156        199.933

>Ontario also ran 200 mile races early in the year beginning in 1973.
>1973-5 they were run as two 100 mile races and then 200 mile races from then on.

>NASCAR also ran there beginning in 1971 and their last race was also 1980.

>I understand land value was the predominent reason for dismantling the track
>but if I remember correctly attendance was nothing to rave about.

>Also, in 1971 they ran the Questor GP (what is a Questor??) where it was
>F-1 vs F-5000.  A majority of the F-1 teams were there.  Unfortunately, the
>USAC regulars (like Foyt and BUnser) got rides in some low budget F-5000 cars
>and could not really compete.  Mark Donohue was the fastest F-5000 and stayed
>with the F-1 boys until mechanical problems slowed his progress.  Granted it
>was (if memory serves) early in the year (Feb?) and the Lola they had was 
>brand new.  BTW, Mario Andretti won both heats in a Ferrari 312 F-1 car, coming from the middle of the pack in both races.  A Glory Days episode has covered
>this race.

>Enough rambling.   

>Glenn Cirlincione
>Boeing Computer Services
>(206) 957-5282

Ontario opened in the Fall of 1970.  The Questor Grand Prix was held March 
28, 1971.  It was the fourth race at the track.  The California 500 was the 
first.  Jackie Stewart was on the pole in the Tyrrell, followed by Chris 
Amon in a Matra, Jacky Ickx Ferrari 312-B and Denis Hulme, McLaren.  Donohue 
was 7th, Andretti qualified 12th.  The race was run as two heats & Jackie 
Stewart was trying out a new "cool" suit, but suffered from the heat.  First 
place was worth $25,000.  I still have my program from 21 years ago!

Tom Larson
Univ. Oregon
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Schumacher's wing (was Re: Hungarian GP)
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:07:39 GMT
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies

In article <3774@sol.deakin.OZ.AU> tim@mimas.cc.deakin.OZ.AU (Tim Cook) writes:
>Are you sure you watched the BBC coverage?  Or did you see their
>edited version which did not include Jonathan Palmer interviewing
>Schumacher (and perhaps footage of the contact)?  Schumacher quite
>calmly explained that Berger had blocked him going into a corner,
>forcing him to brake and swerve sharply, leaving not enough room for
>Brundle to brake himself.

the part about Berger didn't come out in the ESPN coverage here
in the US; Schumacher only said that Brundle rear ended his car,
which is what lead to my comments.

the ESPN broadcasters were also momentarily confused as to whether
it was Brundle or Hakkanenin who tapped Schumacher; it's damned easy
to confuse the Lotus with the Benneton this year.

cheers,
  richard
-- 
richard welty                            518-393-7228
welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
  ``if you can read this, mario, you're too close''
    -- bumper sticker seen on a CART safety truck
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Subject: Re: F1 Tracks for Passing
Reply-To: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua NH
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:30:16 GMT


In article <bjilek.714349211@trojan>, bjilek@convex.com (Brian Jilek) writes:

|>	High banking is an interesting idea for F1. I can see the engineers
|>scratching their heads now!

It was tried at Monza off and on in the 1950s.  The 10km Monza circuit consisted
of one turn around the current circuit, then going around the banked oval
portion to complete the lap.  The banked oval portion was dropped because
of problems with tire wear and driver/car/spectator safety.  Now this was in
the days before wings and wide tires, so it might be different today.

--PSW
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: tungd@ecf.toronto.edu (TUNG DANIEL KING LEUNG)
Subject: German GP
Keywords: Mansell, Senna
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:34:10 GMT


	I know it is very late to post my "comments" about this race, but I 
have to express my disappointment about Mansell's performance. I am disappointed
because he had no chance to prove himself.

	As you may know, after the "corner incident", Senna let Mansell pass.
I would really like to see them compete and then Mansell pass because of his
own effort. This (Mansell passing Senna all by himself) had not happened in 
this season as far as I am concerned. Is this because Mansell is not as good as
Senna?
	Does anyone think Senna will let Prost pass in a similar situation? :-)

Daniel
tungd@ecf.toronto.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Another Fiat Question
From: Stuart_Laing@kcbbs.gen.nz (Stuart Laing)
Date: 23 Aug 92 00:16:12 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

Yes take it to one of those large vehicle crushing plants drive in give
the keys to the nice man and walk away. Faits are the most frustrating
cars you can ever own. When they go well ( and that is not very often)
they are wonderful but as you have already discovered they have a bad
habit of needing to be fixed. This could be that Fiat stands for 
FIX IT AGAIN TONY.
Manybe from previous posts you would have been better off with a Diesel
Rabbit.
From: roberto@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (roberto)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Team dominance (was Re: Senna, Prost & Mansell)
Date: 19 Aug 92 11:29:46 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.
X-Mailer: mail-news 2.0.5

Nicos Kontopoulos (nicos@cs.bu.edu) writes:

|So I guess the drivers competition in 1993 will be within the Williams
|drivers. And now for the historians: Has there been such a case in RECENT
|years (after lets say the 70s)?


Years of absolute Dominance (10 or more wins):

Team      Year   Champion/Team-mate 

McLaren    84    Lauda/Prost
Williams   87    Piquet/Mansell
McLaren    88    Senna/Prost
Williams   92    Mansell/Patrese 

Years of some dominance.

McLaren    85    Prost/Lauda
Willimas   86    Mansell/Piquet  *** Despite the inferior equipment, Prost 
                                     was the Champion for McLaren.
McLaren    89    Prost/Senna 

So, in the last 9 seasons, only in two of them there was NOT a clear BEST TEAM.
This was in: 90 (McLaren/Senna x Ferrari/Prost) and 
             91 (McLaren/Senna x Williams/Mansell). 

|Drivers of the same team fighting for the championship doesn't seem very
|exciting to me. It should be (equipment advantage eliminated), but with all
|the politics in F1... I don't know.

I agree with you. In this aspect, this year was (is?) the most boring of all
as Mansell has no serious competition. Maybe now that Mansell is champion and 
Patrese is likely to lose his seat we can see some good races. 

Roberto Barros
From: schludermann@sscvx1.ssc.gov
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: book for toyota fi power mods
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:14:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: sscvx1.1992Aug21.111414.1
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory


    There is a book out there on how to modify toyota fuel injection systems
for performance.  Can any one tell me the name?
From: smithr@teecs.UUCP (Robert Smith)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:15:54 GMT
Subject: Re: Potted History of Brabham (was Re: driver owned teams in F1)
Organization: Litton Systems, Toronto ONT
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport

In '66 McLaren made a bad decision (hindsight is 20/20) to use the 4 cam
Indy Ford engine de-stroked to 3 litres. On the face of it Bruce used his
connections at Ford (from the GT40 development program) to obtain a
proven powerplant but the only thing it relly produced was noise ;-)
and it was overweight. The only reason Bruce used the Alfa and Serenissima
engines was the delay in the delivery of the 12 cylindar BRM caused by
BRM concentrating on the H16.[A[A[A[A[C[B[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[Da[2~lly produced was noise :-)[B[B[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[C[C[C[Ce[D[Der[B[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[C[C[ Combined with Robin Heard's experiments
with a monocoque chassis made from mallite (an aircraft material made of
balsa wood with an aluminum skin bonded to it) the '66 season was pretty
much a loss for McLaren.

Bob.
From: aghao@sersun2.essex.ac.uk (Aghanya O A)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Piquet and Senna at Hungary in 1986 (WOW!)
Date: 21 Aug 92 09:15:10 GMT
Reply-To: aghao@sersun2.essex.ac.uk (Aghanya O A)
Organization: University of Essex, Colchester, UK

Greetings.

I have been following this thread with interest, and could no longer refrain
from sticking my oar in, as they say! :-)

I remember this race vividly, and I also remember shouting out (very) loudly 
as Nelson repeatedly tried to squeeze his FW11 round Senna's Lotus 97T (?)
At the time, I described Nelson's driving as "Real Man's Driving (tm)" :-),
and I still think so!

The sequence of events was that Nelson actually needed two goes to get round a 
stubbornly unyielding Ayrton - the first on the inside (a la Mansell on Berger
in 92) and the second round the outside.

During his first attempt, Nelson simply levered his Williams inside Ayrton,
but left his braking far too late, and slid wide in turn 1, allowing Senna to
repass him in the run down to turn 2.  However, not to be outdone, Nelson,
on the very next lap, tried again, this time on the *outside*, again leaving 
his braking far too late.  He made this one stick, though, because he threw
his car sideways into the corner (rally-driver style), and in an incredible 
feat of car control, stayed ahead of Senna for the rest of the lap.  Absolutely
amazing driving by both men.

Thanks for bringing that up - it made me smile for the rest of that day!! :-)

Cheers,

	Obi.

===============================================================================
    .-----,   .           !    Obi Aghanya
   /     /   /        @   !    Fault Tolerant Systems Research Group
  /     /   /----,   /    !    Dept. of Comp. Sci, University of Essex
 /     /   /    /   /     !    Colchester  CO4 3SQ,  UK
(_____'   (____'   (__    !    EMAIL : aghao@essex.ac.uk
            (Waterloo in '92 - for Ayrton! :-) [Told you so! :-)]
From: jaslow@bissun.kodak.com (Russell Jaslow)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: IMSA / Road America
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:11:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: pixel.1992Aug12.161131.20850
Distribution: na
Organization: Eastman Kodak

In article <1992Aug11.184121.23111@cbfsb.cb.att.com> kevinc@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (kevin.j.coulter) writes:
>>>
>>>Zerex Saab Pro Series    1.   R. Amren
>>>                         2.   L. Parente
>>>                         3.   A. Lewis
>>>                         4.   E. Julian
>
>this was another typical parade of slobs....
>

Dont't you mean SNOBS?  :-)
-- 
Russell Jaslow          | Spec Racer #33  Finger Lakes Region | My employer
Eastman Kodak Company   |     In memorium: Andrew Spiller     | has nothing
Rochester, New York     |       Cynthia Bishop Halstead       | to do with
jaslow@bissun.kodak.com | Keep the damn drunks off our roads! | my drivel.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: andy@mercury.cs.clemson.edu (Andrew J. Greenshields N3IGS)
Subject: Re: Senna & Prost to Williams. Mansell retires.
Organization: Clemson University Computer Science Dept.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 01:20:06 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.193812.15759@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> duane@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (duane.galensky) writes:
>
>but then again, senna and prost detest each other, in fact,
>prost has said that he'd never drive with senna as a
>teammate.
>
  What Prost actually said was that he wouldn't partner Senna if Honda were
supplying the engines.  I suppose that implies that if Renault was the
supplier he would not object to having Senna as his team-mate.  What I
don't understand though is why a team manager would want to have two
drivers of the calibre of Prost, Senna or Mansell as team-mates?  Surely
the current situation with Mansell and Patrese playing the solid number
two is more preferable.  It would cost a lot less in salaries and you 
wouldn't have to put up with the infighting that has developed when you
pair such drivers.  Any ideas?

--


  Andrew J. Greenshields N3IGS    |  Some people can tell what time it is by
  andy@cs.clemson.edu             |  looking at the Sun, but I have never been
  [dxandy@cs.widener.edu]         |  able to make out the numbers.
-----------------------***STANDARD DISCLAIMERS APPLY***------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport,rec.autos.driving
From: kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn)
Subject: Re: reliable cars
Reply-To: kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 20 Aug 92 08:00:09 GMT

In article <pod.714268157@suite.sw.oz.au> pod@suite.sw.oz.au (Paul O'Donnell) writes:
>Get this thread out of rec.autos.sport.

[Arm thrust into air, heels clicked together smartly]: yessir, Herr Net
Police Doktor, sir!  Do you wish we should kill them?

>
>-- 
>pod@softway.sw.oz.au                    |So Avon, what does it feel like to
>Softway Pty Ltd                         |be a god?" (Blake)
>Phone:   +61 2 698-2322                 |
>Fax:     +61 2 699-9174                 |"I would think you'd know." (Avon)

Frigging dweeb.

--
Kevin Quinn                         | kevinq@ingres.com
                                    | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com
My opinions are my own.  Should you think otherwise, think again.
From: dlhpfm!dlh@NCoast.org (daniel lance herrick)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Economaki on PITSTOP
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 14:18:11 EDT
Organization: dlh Performance Marketing

bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:

> Perhaps Chris, and to a lesser extent Paul (much younger in age), has
> had a hard time transitioning from radio to television.  I still don't
> think this year's IndyCar radio broadcasts (produced by Page, btw) are
> anywhere near the quality of MRN and NASCAR (unfortunately we don't get
> those here anymore).  Maybe they (IndyCar network) should bring in Chris
> to help out.

I am not a fight fan and have watched very little fight action. However
I still remember with AWE watching a fight with Howard Cosell doing the
commentary.  We lost the video.  Within about ten seconds, Cosell
switched gears from commentary on a fight we were all watching with him
to telling us about a fight we could not see.  The video came back
before the round was over and he switched back within about 30
seconds.  It was a fantastic display of virtuosity - both Cosell being
able to turn it on and off and the off camera/microphone talent keeping
him informed about what was going on in the rest of the production.

dan  of dlh Performance Marketing  POBox 1419  Mentor Ohio 44061
         NCoast.org!dlhpfm!dlh or ab.com!dlhpfm.uucp!dlh
From: danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Driver-owned teams; are they the best?
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:03:02 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

Michael Hui writes:

>I'm not too up on my F1 history, but has there ever been a mildly
>succesful driver-owned team contesting in F1? Ever?

Here's a list of drivers who raced chassis by the same name (except where
noted).  I don't know what drivers might have owned teams that ran under a 
different name.

	Chris Amon		- One race, not successful.
	Jack Brabham		- WC in '66 in a Brabham chassis
	Emerson Fittipaldi	- Best race, 3rd (in a Fittipaldi) 2nd
				  (in a Copersucar), not very successful.
	Dan Gurney		- Best race, 1 win (in Eagle).
	Graham Hill		- Best race, 6th.
	Bruce McLaren		- Best race, 1 win, 3rd in WC in '69.
	Arturo Merzario		- Two seasons, not successful.
	Hector Rebaque		- One race (actually was a Lotus that
				  ran under his name)
	John Surtees		- Best race, 5th, not very successful.
	anyone else??

Dan Jones
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: davison@unity.ncsu.edu (John Davison)
Subject: Clifford Allison
Organization: North Carolina State University Project Unity
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:35:04 GMT

I just heard on the local NPR station that Clifford Allison, Donnie's son and
Davey's cousin, died about 1:30 this afternoon following a wreck in practice for
the coming races at Michigan Int'l Speedway.

I didn't hear any more details, but maybe someone up there can fill us in.

This hasn't been a good year for the Allison family.
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 John_Davison@ncsu.edu   |  Spencer's Laws: 1. Anyone can make a decision given
NCSU College of Textiles |  enough facts.  2. A good manager can make a
 Student Computing Lab   |  decision without enough facts.
      DoD # 0476         |  3. A perfect manager can operate in perfect
    (919) 515-6601       |     ignorance.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Re: NASCAR at INDY??
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:07:56 GMT

In article <16841A148.GR743@uacsc2.albany.edu> GR743@uacsc2.albany.edu (Greg Rickes) writes:
>There are lots of other places ready, willing,
>and able to add a Winston Cup race at a
>moments notice, e.g. NHIS, Heartland Park
>in Topeka, Milwaukee, heck even SANAIR
>up in Quebec would be a possibility.
> 
And don't forget those of us out here in Orygone!
I know of a terrific road course which already had
IndyCars and IMSA, but never NASCAR WC.

There's one other quotient in this NASCAR at Indy questions
that we haven't addressed.  IMS, as most know, is NOT in the
city of Indianapolis.  It resides in Speedway, Indiana.  Each
year, the month of May causes a very large disruption for the
city's services.  While I'm sure this is most welcome, for
financial aspects, on a yearly basis -- when the 500 is completed
things can go back to normal for the next 11 months.  One might
consider that Speedway may not want to put up with the disruption
more than once per year.

As we know, IMS is currently going thru some remodeling.  The largest
project is raising the height of the walls.  Not related to the track,
the golf course is expanding.  There is also a blueprint for a possible
road course within the infield.

I've learned that Max Mosley is planning on being in the are on Labor
Day weekend, ostensibly to attend the NHRA Nationals at IRP.  It may
be a convenient time for Tony George to show Max the road course plans.
You can draw your own conclusions.

-c'ball-
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport

>I was referring to the pass later in the race, not at the first corner.  It
>didn't look like there was any faltering of the car.  

I don't agree.  The camera shots of Mansell's car showed it to be a lot less
stable that Patreses prompting ESPN commentators to say on several occasions
that they thought something might be wrong with the Williams active suspension.
It is also possible that Nige missed a shift or that the engine cut out
for a split second.

************************************************
* Donald Boell - Hewlett Packard               *
*                                              *
* When you're chewing on life's gristle        *
* Don't grumble, give a whistle - Monty Python *
*                                 Life of Brian*
************************************************


Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: serge@dgbt.doc.ca (Serge Ah Hee)
Subject: Re: F1 Pick6
Organization: The Communications Research Centre
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 20:24:55 GMT

In article <Bsw02w.KnL@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> dp54@mc4adm.UWaterloo.ca (Rob Silcher) writes:
># Due to mailing problems...
># Here are my picks for the Hungarian GP
>#
>
>Player: Rob Silcher
>ReplyTo: dp54@mc4adm.UWaterloo.ca
>
>1. Mansell
>2. Schumacher
>3. Senna
>4. Brundle
>5. Alesi
>6. Alboreto

Where's Patrese? Does you crystal ball predicts another goof up?

Serge

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: Re: Sennas $0.00 offer
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 16:09:59 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.234114.9536@cerberus.bhpese.oz.au> david@cerberus.bhpese.oz.au (David Masters) writes:
>Senna may not need a large _official_ salary package, because
>these guys at the top make a fortune with private sponsorship
>deals with the badges on the driving suits, etc. 
>Also, I am sure marlboro would find some new way of paying 
>their golden boy if he was strapped for cash.

senna & williams means no marlboro money for senna; williams
has a longstanding sponsorship relationship with that other
cigarette company, camel, and is unlikely to break it without
very good reason.

cheers,
  richard
-- 
richard welty                            518-393-7228
welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
  ``if you can read this, mario, you're too close''
    -- bumper sticker seen on a CART safety truck
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: marcink@quantum.carleton.ca (Marcin Kolbuszewski)
Subject: Re: Team dominance (was Re: Senna, Prost & Mansell)
Organization: Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 13:35:53 GMT

I do not remember the details, but in 1977 the season was dominated by
the Lotus ground effects car, with late Ronnie Peterson ( died after an
accident on the start of 1977 GP Italy at Monza. I think Riccardo
Patrese ( 15 years ago ! ) was blamed at that time for aggresive
driving ). I do not remeber the other driver ( Carlos Alberto Reutemann?

In 1978 everybody had ground effect with skirts and the domination was over.


I hope I did not mess up the fact...


Marcin Kolbuszewski

marcink@ccs.carleton.ca


Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Subject: Re: Winning F1 at Hungary
Reply-To: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua NH
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:12:09 GMT


In article <memo.578609@cix.compulink.co.uk>,
shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith) writes:
|>
|>It occurs to me that the ideal car to win at Hungaroring would be a
|>drag racer.
|>
|>Lets face it - all you have to do is to be first off the line into
|>the first corner, and outdrag everybody else down the start finish
|>straight.

Both Berger and Hakkinen were able to execute passes for position elsewhere
than the first corner.  The way Berger set up Mansell and caught him napping
was masterful.

--PSW
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport