HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: watt-alan@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What are some famous actor's guns
Date: 4 Sep 92 23:44:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Sep4.183007.18972
Organization: Yale University, Computing & Information Systems


In article <1992Sep4.131036.24132@ncsu.edu>, hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:
|> In article <9209022106.AA10610@cs.utexas.edu> MARTYZ@IDUI1.CSRV.UIDAHO.EDU (Marty Zimmerman) writes:
|> # ...  don't forget Matt Helm: S & W 5-shot .38 special with aluminum
|> #frame and 2-inch barrel.   ...
|> #And I'm talking about the Matt Helm from the Donald Hamilton books, ...
|> 
|>   But Matt Helm preferred rifles, and in many of the books did some
|> sniper work, usually with a high power bolt action rifle, and usually
|> scoped.  I'm sure that at least once it was a .300 Win. Mag., and 
|> the sighting it in is often mentioned.
|> 
|> --henry schaffer  n c state univ

Actually, I don't recall a .300 Win. Mag.  There were two novels which
featured a .300 H&H magnum (brand unspecified), and one which featured
a 7mm Remington magnum.  One novel featuring the .300 H&H went into
great detail on the bullet drop calculations for a 500+ yard shoot.
Another novel described scraping away excess stock material on a new
rifle to free-float the barrel for better accuracy.

As for handguns, Matt Helm does seem to find himself with .38 snubbies
much of the time, although one novel featured a .357 magnum and another
a .44 magnum.  He seems to make a point of loosing his handgun
in just about every novel.  One time his boss commented on it and
Helm's reponse was all these new revolvers have no personality and
he never gets attached to them -- not like his old .22 Colt Woodsman
he carried all through his WW II service.

Hamilton is one author who really knows his guns -- Not like Robert
Ludlum who opened one of his books with an assasination done with a
"silenced rifle".  I like the Matt Helm character (er, in the books,
before Dean Martin's movies turned him into a sod).  Makes you realize
what a panty-waist James Bond was.

It seems Hamilton quit writing Matt Helm novels.  Or is he dead now?
I'd love to find some new ones.
-- 
  Alan S. Watt
  Yale University			Computing and Information Systems
  Box 2112 Yale Station			(203) 432-6602
  New Haven, CT  06520-2112		Watt-Alan@Yale.Edu
From: biocca@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (Alan K Biocca)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: RUGER MINI-14 ACCESSORIES
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:25:26 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California

In article <9209150548.AA24375@hpfcso.HP.COM> post@hpfcso.fc.hp.com (David Post) writes:
#
# >I would like to know if anyone can tell me how much factory 20 and 30
# >round mini-14 magazines are selling for at gun shows or shops if

...

#I have never seen them at retail outlets.

They used to be fairly common.  Since Ruger stopped making them they have
dried up.

Some of the aftermarket magainzes are fine, and much cheaper.  The 20's are
generally the most reliable.  30's are quite heavy loaded, and somewhat
impractical due to the amount protruding.

#I advise caution if offered a 30 round *Ruger* magazine.  One source I have
#read said the factory *NEVER* made 30 round mags, but claimed there were
#some counterfits around.  I don't know what the truth is.

I recall seeing Ruger 30 round magazines also, but they weren't common.  I
heard they were only intended for sale to Law Enforcement.  I believe they
were real factory mags - they came in the Ruger boxes and the dealer was
reputable.

Alan K Biocca
From: nsc!jrr@decwrl.dec.com (Jerry Roe)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Black Talon ammo
Date: 15 Sep 92 13:59:41 GMT
Organization: National Semiconductor, Santa Clara

In article <1992Sep9.134316.17873@afit.af.mil> lriggins@afit.af.mil (L. Maurice Riggins) writes:
##
##Does Black Talon ammo get reliable expansion at the sub-1000 fps velocities?
##If so, this is something new in itself.
#
#The magazine article I read on the Black Talon had a sidebar where the
#author describes using the 10mm for hunting.  Seems although it expands
#dramtically in ballistic gelatin, it didn't do squat for expansion on
#a deer.  It's been a while since I read it, but as I recall, he went
#back to Winchester and they worked on the design, but I don't recall
#any subsequent hunting test that he mentioned.
#-- 
#Maurice               INTERNET:  lriggins@afit.af.mil

There's a more recent, I believe (current, in fact) article which refers
to this very testing and followup by Winchester.  Apparently they took
the test results to heart and kept modifying the bullet's characteristics
until it worked like a champ.  That's what they then ended up marketing.
Because I read so many magazines I can't quote you the issue, but it's
very recent.  And, as to the question of expansion, you betcha bootie it
expands.  Photos of recovered (hunting) bullets show remarkable performance.


Jerry Roe
jrr@nsc.nsc.com		...!{sun,pyramid,decwrl)!nsc!jrr
From: qui@aus.intel.com (qui hoang)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: SIG StG-57 (SIG PE-57, SIG 510) rifle advices wanted
Date: 16 Sep 92 00:30:57 GMT

Hello,

I have a chance to buy a mint SIG StG-57 rifle (commercially called SIG PE-57 
or SIG 510) that shoots the Swiss 7.5x55mm cartridge. The quality is impeccable
,the look is awesome, the weight is too much!

Could the net wisdom tell me:
   - a fair price to pay   
   - where can I get ammunition (Norma?), and how much does it cost
   - can I buy reloading die and components for it
   - current owners, anyone ?

Or should I just forget about it and look for the SIG AMT (SIG 510-4) in .308

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

QH
From: holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe))
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: List of European Gun Magazines
Date: 8 Sep 92 13:58:12 GMT
Organization: Technical University Vienna, Dept. for Realtime Systems, AUSTRIA

Just a reminder:  A list of European (well, German, Swiss and, thanks
to Jonathan, British) gun magazines with main interests, subscription
information and prices is available at our local ftp site
ftp.vmars.tuwien.ac.at in the directory /pub/misc/guns under the name
European_Gun_Magazines.txt

There is information about _Guns Review_ there, too.

-- 
| Holger Reusch                             |
| Technical University of Vienna, Austria <-+--- No kangaroos here,
| Dept. for Real-Time Systems               |    sorry!
| holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at                 |

[MODERATOR:  Thanks, Holger!]
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: New Hangunner: Summary
Date: 13 Sep 92 23:16:49 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

tssmith@netcom.com (Tim Smith) writes:
#     One respondent from Germany said that he wouldn't recommend either
#     a Ruger or a S&W 41, and mentioned the Russian MC pistols, or
#     the Star FR Sport .22 (I haven't seen either of these listed here in
#     the US, but the prices he quoted (in Germany) were very
#     low (around 100-200 DM)).

Holy cow, do they still make those things?   I saw one in a shop a few
years ago (at $170, I would have paid $130), didn't buy it, and the guy
went out of business before I could haggle it way down and put him out
of business.

Even before I knew anything about Star, I liked all their guns by the
feel and look.   What is 100-200 DM in American?   I wish I could find
a Star .22 sometimes.

Jim D
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: Gun in Burris Ad
Date: 12 Sep 92 13:53:40 GMT

A while ago I asked about what kind of gun is featured in the
Burris scope ad (it appears to be a single shot 'hand cannon'
with custom stock).  Most of the responses I received said
it was the Remington XP-100.  After comparing the two, I don't
think it is...

- The standard XP-100 has about 1/3 of the length behind the trigger
  and grip.  The one in the Burris ad has the trigger and grip further
  back.  However...

- the XP-100R (the repeater) has the trigger and grip in about the
  same location as the Burris gun.  However, the Burris gun has a
  Mauser-type bolt removal latch on the left side of the gun; I
  didn't see that in the pictures of the XP-100R.

I think I may give Burris a call for the definitive answer...

Rob
From: jim.wray@cutting.hou.tx.us (Jim Wray)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: ftp help
Date: 11 Sep 92 02:51:12 GMT
Organization: The Cutting Edge - Houston, TX - 713-466-1525

[MODERATOR: Okay, not in our charter, but affects how folks can get to info
we regularly refer to.  Please help this guy off line, not here....]

I need a little help with FTP'ing files from various internet hosts. (If I
am not using the correct terminology here, bear with me) Using my machine
at work:

I have the capability to log into said hosts using DOS/WINDOWS/LAN workplace.
LAN workplace, running under windows, allows me to easily download files
from the internet host to my PC. When they are straight ascii text files or
"normal" ZIP'ed files, I can use them just fine. More often than not, the
files are compressed using some scheme that my de-archivers (as used in the
DOS world) can't decode. I believe most of the cases I am having trouble
with are from UNIX systems. Since I have no direct access to internet mail,
I was hoping someone in this echo (which I receive via a Usenet gateway)
could tell me what program I need to decompress these files. Someone
probably knows since the files I am trying to get to are usually mentioned
here as being available for use. If possible, include the ftp internet address
of a system which might have the decompression program available for
downloading

[*This* message is being put on the net through the local Usenet BBS host
I use here in Houston; ie, I'm not really connected to internet.]

Thanks in advance for any help/info which will allow me to use these
firearms/second amendment related files.
---
 . OLX 2.2 . G=Guns, PG=Plenty of Guns, PG-13=More than 12 guns...
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Self def. .38 ammo question
Date: 16 Sep 92 00:31:16 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

se08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth Adam Eliot) writes:

[Friend has an aluminum S&W five-shot.]

#effect, but I'm skeptical -- would these things even go through a heavy
#leather jacket across the room?
... >Any comments or opinions on:
#-self-defence loads for this Aluminum shooter
#-The Remington multi-balls

I wouln't worry about occasional +P use, and I wouldn't let my fear
of wrecking the gun stop me from using what I thought was the most
effective ammo.

With +P use, it's the _practice_ that will kill the gun, not that
emergency one time use.  The problem is, she's going to have to practice
with the load she carries: it's only sensible.

There's also the matter of what she can handle.  I thought +P 110 gr
ammo was bad in that gun.  If this is her first gun, she will like it
less than I do.  

158 gr (not jacketed) lead hollowpoint +P ammo is pretty good, but likely
is a misery for practice in the 42.   Federal makes a non-jacketed, non-+P
125 gr lead HP that might be worth a try.  Rem makes a non-+P 110 gr JHP 
that would be very mild to shoot.   As to it's expansion or penetration,
I can't say, but I'm sure it would penetrate less than the "multi-ball"
load.

Jim D

[MODERATOR:  Errr.... there is, of course, Your Humble Moderator's usual
procedure in these matters:  buy two pistols.  Get the airweight, not rated
for regular use of +P, and practice enough with it so you know it is reliable,
also practice enough with light loads so you have proper handling procedures
down.  Get the heavier framed version of the pistol too, and practice to heck
and gone with it using +P loads, so you know you can handle the relatively
light frame that makes a big noise.  

For what its worth, today is a good case in point on how YHM happens to buy
a firearm.   Already have a rifle with a Leupold scope on it, decided to
send away for the sunshade on it, $12.  "Oops," sez YHM when it arrives today,
"it doesn't fit."  Turns out YHM should have looked closely at the front end
of his Leupold law enforcement scope, threads have a separate ring turned into
them so it won't take the shade.  A scan of the directions (read only in case
of emergency) suggests that the screen is only good on scopes with an adjustable
objective.  But I got this as part of a "deal" (u-huh, sez my wife), and can't
just return the shade.  Clearly its time to order a scope w/ AO to go behind it.
Yeah, that's it. Quick, out comes the VISA card and Lock/Stock/Barrel's 800
number.  Errrr .... wait.  I don't have a decent rifle to put under the scope
now.  Of course, we can fix *that* too ... "gosh, honey, it sure would be a
waste of money of I didn't just finish the configuration.".....  Sign me, "in
the market for a deal" ....]
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: States gun laws
Date: 12 Sep 92 13:53:33 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <1992Sep10.171401.10256@henson.cc.wwu.edu>, n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
# megatek!hollen@uunet.UU.NET (Dion Hollenbeck) writes:
# #I am thinking of moving to another state.  Could any of you please
# #comment on gun laws in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado,
# #New Mexico, Arizona, Texas or Arkansas.  These are some of the
# #possible places I am currently looking into.  Thanks.
# 
# Washington is pretty good:  No ATF items, but 3 year CCPs are to be had 
# for $30.  Issuance is mandatory within 30 days unless you have a criminal
# record.  There is a stupid 5 day wait, but not for CCP holders.
# 
# Jim Del Vecchio

My Washington permit is good for four years, and it only cost $23.

No one said anything about mandatory insurance at the police dept.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock Basics and some safety concerns...
Date: 7 Sep 92 00:39:21 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <1685313A1B.HODGSONT@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> HODGSONT@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Jake Hodgson) writes:
#    I'm sure this is a FAQ and I apologize in advance for the redundancy, but
#I have been looking at Glocks lately (having found out I can buy 3 glocks for
#the price of a H&K P7M10) and I was wondering if someone could give me the
#low down on the safety system.  I gather that there have been some problems
#with it in the past.  Moreover, the idea of a safety based on the concept of
#'trust us, it's all internal and it's foolproof'  is abit disconcerting.

The Glock is designed to operate "just like a revolver." That is to say,
pull the trigger, it goes bang. Don't pull the trigger, and it won't
go bang. That's about as foolproof as you can make a gun. The little
trigger inside the trigger operates a firing pin block that prevents
the gun from firing, even if dropped from a great height, if not depressed.
This is similar in principle to the firing pin blocks on modern revolvers.
Glocks are partially double action only since the striker is not fully
cocked until you pull the trigger.  If you aren't scared of a DA revolver, 
there's no reason to fear the Glock safety system. Like a revolver, it's
simplicity of operation makes it ideal for use in stress situations.
All you have to remember is round in chamber, pull trigger.

Gary
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Youth Shooter Questions
Date: 11 Sep 92 02:50:52 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.

In article <1992Sep9.234200.25529@pacdata.uucp> pacdata!dave@uunet.UU.NET (David Ambrose) writes:
#
#	I'm not totally enthusiastic about airguns for safety training.

I can see someone thinking that...

#They're just a bit too much like toys.  

Not at the prices of the ones that ended up interesting our family... :{

The quality and accuracy of them *were* most gratifying, though.  :}
Single-hole 5-shot groups at 10 meters from a rest (some pillows on
the kitchen table, in this case).

A proper attitude (like that expressed later in Dave's post) is the
ticket for making the safety training work.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of making many books there is no end...  |  What's wrong with chasing 
                       -- Eccl. 12:12    |  nebulae till 3 am?  |-(
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: johan@beppe4.ericsson.se (Johan Wennerberg)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Info wanted!
Date: 9 Sep 92 13:08:33 GMT
Organization: Ericsson


Hello!

I`m looking for all data and programs about guns, reloading, ballistics,
armour laws, you name it. Could you please E-mail me anonymous ftp-
archive adresses or information direct. 

Thank's from a novise reloader

johan@beppe.ericsson.se
From: r36110m@kaira.hut.fi (Mika Matti Jalava)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: First Gun Suggestions?
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:28:20 GMT
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland

In article <1992Sep10.011542.2192@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> andy@sail.stanford.edu (Andy Freeman) writes:
#By those criteria, there's no .22 that will match a decent air gun.
#What?  You folks aren't shooting air guns?  Obviously you're
#interested in factors other than those listed.

Oh, well. I do have a decent airgun, too. I prefer shooting at 25 m,
though, and my air pistol (or any other decent one I know, BB guns
don't count) is only single-shot. That leaves out many types of
competitions (or many styles of shooting for fun).

I did get a few responses by mail stating that in US many people hunt
with handguns and they are widely used for self defence.  Of course
there are needs for more powerful guns than .22's. But I still think a
.22 by no means is a "specialist's weapon". I do own different guns
and I shoot with all of them (two shotguns, a .30 rifle, a 9mm pistol,
an air pistol), but so far the .22 lr guns (a rifle and a Unique DES
69 pistol) are the ones that really get used.  Of course I can't hunt
with them (illegal to hunt with a .22 rimfire in Finland), but hunting
and training for it doesn't take that much shooting. Luckily. I would
run out of money quite soon if I shot as much with the bigger ones as
I do with the .22's.

If a person wants a decent gun to practice with, I don't see any
reason why he/she shouldn't get a .22. Or an airgun. But I'd go for a
"real gun" as it is much more versatile (mostly because they usually
aren't single-shot). Airguns have their advantages, the biggest ones
being the low noise and cheap ammo. To go even further, you might
consider the laser things that don't actually shoot anything but
light. They are VERY cheap to use and safe.

Then, when one wants a handgun for defence or hunting purposes, he can
pick a suitable one. You can improve your basic shooting skills much
cheaper with the .22/airgun/laser and use the bigger one for what it is
bought. REMEMBER THOUGH that you must practice enough with every gun
you intend to use for any purpose!

	Mika
From: howardjg@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (John G Howard)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: PLEASE HELP OUR SCHOOL CLUB- Hunting Shotguns & Plinking 9mm's- Which to buy...
Date: 8 Sep 92 13:57:57 GMT
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology


Hello out there in rec.guns land,

	I'm a member of a school sponsered Gun Club that's got a  
decent amount of cash to purchase several handguns (one's already  
been decided- Ruger Mark II) and at least one shotgun.

	The problem is, we don't have lots of references and could  
use some outside assistance in our selections.

	Here's what we know:
		1.  We want a 9mm single or double action  
semi-automatic magazine type pistol- preferablly below $600.00.
		2.  We want a shotgun- maybe pump, maybe auto, maybe  
dual purpose (shot &/or sabot)- for about $300.00.
		3.  We've shot the Glock 17 & 19 & love them both (I  
prefer the 17- it's a little bigger for my larger hands)
		4.  We know the Ruger pistols are known to be  
reliable (is this true??)

	Here's what we need:
		1.  Any suggestions, comments, help, ideas, &/or  
anything else that you would be willing to offer.
		2.  Anyone know any really good deals out there??
		
	Thank you for your time and efforts.

	Please respond on the NewsGrazer or e-mail to:
	
		howardjg@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

THANKS AGAIN!!

	LaTer DaZe,
		JGH
		John G. Howard
		howardjg@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (NeXT or other)
		Student of Mechanical (Aerospace) Engineering at
		Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
		Terre Haute, IN
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Reloading dies.  What do you think?
Date: 14 Sep 92 01:22:38 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <HOLLEN.92Sep8141840@peg.megatek.UUCP> megatek!hollen@uunet.UU.NET (Dion Hollenbeck) writes:
# ...
#Well, I took a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight in .223 from 1.5"
#groups to under .5" groups by using benchrest hand dies.  You could
#always use Wilson dies and Sinclair arbor press and get the whole set
#of dies and press for less than $100 (I think).  

$127.80 in Catalog #92-A  ($149.95 with the micrometer type seater.)

#Yes. the Neil Jones
#dies are wonderful, but you won't get any more precision than that of
#the Wilson's, you will only pay for convenience of being able to
#easily set the bullet seating depth and the shoulder setback without a
#dial caliper.  I lived with Wilson dies for about 3 years and they
#were fine adn every bit as accurate as the Jones.  You cannot,
#however set back the shoulder of the case with a Wilson neck sizer.
#This will eventually cause your bolt not to close on your cases as you
#reload them multiple times.  The only feature available in Jones, not
#available in Wilson.  Wilson dies can be obtained from Sinclair's
#(219)493-1858.

  Today I asked a knowledgeable bench rest shooter who has used
both brands.  He said that in his experience the Jones die is a nice
theoretical idea, but that it doesn't carry through into practice.
When he used the Jones die to bump back the shoulder, he found that
since the case wall is not supported that a bit of a doughnut forms
in the case wall.  He strongly advocates using the Wilson, and then
using a touch of a full length resizing die to bump back the shoulder
when needed.

  I've been trying to reduce group sizes in my .222 Rem. and my
friend suggested using more powder.  He claims that this caliber is
happiest when loaded hot.  The AA manual suggests starting with
21.3 gr. of AA2015BR with a max of 23.7 gr (53 gr. bullet.)  I've
been shooting 21.6 and 22 gr.  He told me to try 22.5.  He also
told me of a local experimenter who has concluded that 2015BR is
rather temperature sensitive, with 21.3 gr. on a cold day and
23.7 gr. on a hot day being equivalent.

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
From: bellcore!bae.bae.bellcore.com!wind@uunet.UU.NET (Wind Chen)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: Baby Eagle
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:28:39 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research


I don't know about the Jericho 941 part, but Baby Eagle does have
the 9mm <-> .41 parts.
G&A in 1991 had something about the Jericho.
__________________________________________________________________
Wind Y. Chen                   |      eMail: wind@bae.bellcore.com
_______________________________|__________________________________

#>>>
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Subject: RE: Baby Eagle


# I was in a sporting goods store last night and saw a new gun- the Baby
# Eagle. Does anyone have any info on this gun? Have you seen any reviews
# of it? Any info appreciated!

The Baby Eagle was formerly known as the Jericho 941.  When it was sold
as the Jericho, it was supplied with both 9mm and .41AE parts.  I don't
know if this is still true.


Rob