HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: asar.310@wpi.wpi.edu  
Subject:  re-post
Followup-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
X-Aps2-Version: 2.1
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service @ WPI
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 17:31:56 GMT

Aps Name: November


I'm re-posting my original post of April 3rd because several lines were 
deleted in the transfer....


This is my first post, I have been reading asar for about a month now
and must admit that at times I feel addicted to this group. I am 39
years old male, and a recovering alcoholic as well as a survivor of
sexual abuse.  I started working in my A.C.O.A. issues through one on
one therapy and supporto groups. About three years ago I started
uncovering evidence of sexual abuse.  It wasn't until this past
Christmas that I had my first flashback after spengindsomertime with
friends who had two small boys ages 10mos. and two years.  After that
visit I started having intense body memories and very powerfull
dissociative experiences at bed time. I have always had nightmares,
night terrors, and variuos sleep disturbances. I now know that I was
sexuall y abused by my step-father. I have always had memories of
being terrified by him while growing up. This may sound strange but I
can almost take this all in stride compared to the experience I had
this last weekend. I got images and body memories of my mother
molesting when I was between the ages of two and five. This is where
my logic and reasoning absolutely short circuits. I am having terrible
difficulty accepting the images that I saw and the subsequent body
feelings that went along with them. I have never been close to my
mother because she was emotionally abusive,non-supportive, and
very,very cold and unavailable.  I ha{ just reached the point where I
could detach from her voice inside my head in a healthy way. And~now I
hcve discovered the ugly truth about my childhood.I have been goind in
and out of denial about this since it happened on sunday.But,with the
help of my supportive wife, who is in the substance abuse recovery
field, my therapist and S.I.A. group I hope to combat the denial by
TALKING and not succumbing to the old script in my head that I have
working so hard to rewrite. I have obviously edited and added to my
original message I might as well since I still haven't gotten a handle
on this E-mail stuff.  Anyway my thanks and gratitude to everyone on
asar, this group is very validating even if I'm just listening.



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From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: RE: hello
Date: 16 Apr 92 23:03:54 GMT
Organization: NIST

Your second post came through loud and clear also.  Welcome!

                                                                        __
    Sim David Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3338.span@sdsc.edu \/
From: blackbourner@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Here I am!
Date: 13 Apr 92 08:47:15 CDT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

> In article <1992Apr12.200632.9935@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> walner@tramp.Colorado.EDU (Shimon Walner) writes:
>>
>>Hi folks.  Hineni here.  Yes, Hineni.  Otherwise known as Shimon Walner.
>>
>>I just got back from a trip back to Chicago and told all my close friends
>>about being abused, and when I returned I finally got a chance to tell that
>>one dear friend (with net access that I wanted to hear the news from me and
>>not over the net).  So I now feel free to drop my anonymity.


Congratulations!

Erin Sue
From: blackbourner@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: finding a long lost perp
Date: 15 Apr 92 08:47:46 CDT
Followup-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

    Last year my dad tried to find my perp. We haven't seen him since I was 
10. I don't know why, but I wanted to know where was. I might have 
confronted him. A friend of my dad's ran the perp's name on a police 
computer. There are 20 men with his name in that city! I've given up on 
finding him.

Erin Sue
From: chrislyn@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Tracey L. Stanchfield)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: confused
Date: 16 Apr 92 21:25:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: bsu-cs.1433
Organization: Dept of CS Ball State University Muncie In


Shannon--
I hve kind of the same prob.. afraid to talk too much for fear of "boring"
a friend or my So. Maybe it would help you to say something like: " I 
have something I need to talk with you about-- would this be a good time?"
Perhaps this would help quite that litle vioce that tells you that you will
lose friends because you talk too much.

best of luck...

tracey
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: gery@midway.uchicago.edu (Black Pearl)
Subject: Re: I want to hurt myself
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 16:11:58 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.183019.1240@bvc.edu>, Erin Sue writes:
> 
> I am in a self-destructive mood today. I want to hurt myself. I am not sure 
> why, though.
> 
> I wish someone would hold me in there arms and comfort me. There's no one 
> here to do that. I'm going crazy!


You deserve pleasure, not pain. You deserve peace, not chaos. You DO deserve
to be held, not to be hurt. You have a right to your negative emotions
without being punished for having them. You DO deserve to be held in
somebody's arms until you feel better. You're not going crazy; it's just
the conflict between the good things you really deserve vs. the bad things
the perps tried to convince you you deserved. BIG compassionate e-hugs to
you.

Friends in healing,
Black Pearl

Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: 00rmosadczuk@bsu-ucs.uucp
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: First Frog
Date: 14 Apr 92 03:46:00 GMT
Followup-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery

In article <1992Apr9.123139.29732@wpi.WPI.EDU>, asar.313@wpi.wpi.edu (Frog) writes:
> 
> 	The nikname I chosed is Frog, not for the jumps but for the
> eyes: wide open. Because not only I have not forgotten and I have
> never forgotten, but also because I have remembered every day of my
> life, since ...
> 
> 	I have been wondering how long back can you remember things.
> The first few month and probably the first year are out of the
> question but after that, it posible varies with the individual. In my
> case, I would put my earliest remembrance at about 2 years or even
> earlier. In that remembrance, I see myself in an open field; the sky
> is clear and a fixed bird is in it, right above us; a male adult
> (probably my father) is holding my hand. Next come an scene where I am
> hiding from a group of curious and teasing girls because I am nude
> from the waist down; this also happened, most likely arround the age
> of two. Then, or may be before comes the first part of my traumatic
> experience. But that belongs to another post.
> 
> Frog.



Well Frog, you ask hpw far back people can remeber, so here goes....

There was a time that I felt I woke up, all of the sudden I started remembering
EVERYTHING, shopping for the candles to my third birthday cake, etc.  My
memories are all very linear in a way, they starrt and continue from a certain
point.  But there is some fuzziness between the ages 3 and 6 I lose something
from my clear memory, peices just stop fitting together, abuse started and i
can not name the begining point or hoe it began.  Memory failure of the young
is a fairly common thing, from what I understand of it, but among survivors it
is even more common.  The strange thing, in my case, is that in my ENTIRE life
I have never permanently forgotten anything, I am considered rather smart,
especially because my brain records everything is sees, smells, or does... 
Which makes my memory failure even more confusing...



Hope this helps/doesn't confuse you even more....

Ladyhawke

E-Hugs to all that want them...
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: fay@dolomite.WPI.EDU (Peter R Fay)
Subject: Re: Overt paedophilia IS sexual abuse (Re: sex/power)
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
	<1992Apr6.172641.17737@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 20:50:06 GMT


On Mon, 6 Apr 1992 17:26:41 GMT,
gery@midway.uchicago.edu (Black Pearl) said:
gery> and encourage such discussions, but because =this= group is
gery> about sexual =abuse=, then I would suggest this isn't the
gery> appropriate forum. Some day, I might be interested (read ready)
gery> to hear what you have to say. Right now, I can't see how such
gery> discussions have anything to do with "abuse" or "recovery", only

I second this opinion.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~        Peter Fay        (fay@wpi.wpi.edu)                      ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: gberger@hubcap.clemson.edu (gary l berger)
Subject: Re: PROTOCOL(?)
Organization: Clemson University
Distribution: alt
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:03:45 GMT



I have received a number of responses.  Thanks to everyone.  I have looked at
the most frequently asked questions. You're right, looking at them before the
post would have helped.  Again, thanks.

.

Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: enigma@netcom.com (Enigma)
Subject: Re: For Black Pearl
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 20:42:32 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Apr11.080449.29184@wpi.wpi.edu> asar.196@wpi.wpi.edu (Prisoner) writes:
>In article <1992Apr3.173639.16588@midway.uchicago.edu>
>	gery@midway.uchicago.edu (Black Pearl) writes:
>> I don't use the word "acceptance" the same way you do, although
>> I see your point, and in your terms I agree that my post was an
>> "acceptance" of you.
>
>It's very important to keep the ideas that I'm referring to
>separate, whatever words one uses for them. Acceptance, as I
>use the word, is something you have to do BEFORE you approve
>or disapprove. To not accept (a person) is to pretend that
>the person you are dealing with is not a person or is not
>the person he his; the effect is that you end up dealing,
>not with the person, but with your mental image of him. To
>affect approval or disapproval of that which you don't have
>acceptance of is to be judging, not the person, but your
>distortion of him.
>

Prisoner, I understand what you are saying here, but I want to
voice my opinion about it.  The definition of "acceptance" you
are using is not the dictionary definition (I just looked it up
to make sure) and by redefining it the way you are, you make it
more difficult to understand your meaning.  I suppose you could
include your definition with each and every post, but I see that
as a lot of work.  You should (and will) do whatever you want, of 
course, but I suggest it would be useful to find a word that more
closely approximates the meaning you wish to convey.  Something
along the lines of "recognize", perhaps?  I also thought of
"acknowledge" and "validate", but when I looked them up, neither one
seemed to fit.

BTW, I find your messages interesting, even when I disagree with them.
Good luck in your healing...



-- 
Enigma (enigma@netcom.com)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: cloister@milton.u.washington.edu (cloister bell)
Subject: Re: I want to hurt myself
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 02:40:40 GMT

blackbourner@bvc.edu writes:

>I am in a self-destructive mood today. I want to hurt myself. I am not sure 
>why, though.

>I wish someone would hold me in there arms and comfort me. There's no one 
>here to do that. I'm going crazy!

please don't, erin.  i know that feeling.  i can remember giving in to it.

once when i was at work (i used to work in a soil-mechanics lab) i was taking a
sample out of the microwave where it was drying before being weighed.  rocks
and pebbles can become extremely hot in a microwave (i once saw a piece of iron
slag in a sand sample melt in the microwave!), and i knew it.  i took the
sample out wearing oven-mits, and weighed it.  then i took a butter knife, and
used it to lift a pebble from the sample.  i balanced it on the underside of
one of my wrists.  i knew it would burn.  i knew it would hurt.  i wanted to be
stronger than the pain.  i wondered how long i could withstand the pain before
i would flinch and the pebble would fall.  as i found out, long enough for it
to burn a little bit into one of my tendons.  i now know something of what it
must be like to have a cigarette extinguished on one's arm.  (e-hugs to all who
fit *that* category.  ouch!)  

a couple of days later, while rollerskating with some friends, a fellow
survivor friend of mine asked what happened to my arm.  i told her that i
accidentally leaned against a hot pebble.  if you're reading this, suzi, i'm
sorry for lying to you.  i remember your concern, and i was touched.  i wanted
to tell you.  i really did.  i wanted to tell everyone there, but i couldn't.
i wasn't in a safe enough space to do so.  i wanted everyone to know and give
me sympathy and "positive strokes".  but i couldn't, and i wonder if that would
have been healthy anyway.  it might have felt good, but it might also have
re-enforced those behaviors.

anyway, erin, please be strong.  please don't give in.  you can do it.  please.
-- 
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
|tactical nuclear sdi stealth nsafood signature.  | cloister@u.washington.edu |
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: smith@wisper.com (Sue Smith)
Subject: Can Offenders Pass Polygraphs?
Organization: Wisper Technologies
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 00:29:44 GMT

I am an attorney in private practice that specializes in representing
victims of sexual abuse and exploitation.
 
Knowing the capacity for denial of which abusers are capable, I have always
wondered what the track record was for known abusers passing polygraph
examination.  I know of one case that was reported to me.  This is significant
to my practice because I have not used the technique of suggesting proof by
polygraph to a lawyer representing an offender, because I fear that a guilty
offender could pass!  My state, Connecticut, has recently passed a statute
allowing victims of child sexual abuse to bring lawsuits against their
abusers up until the victim reaches age 35.  I have some clients that were
abused under age 5 and therefore the claims are very, very old.

If anyone has experience with polygraphs either passed or flunked by abusers
I would be very interested in hearing the results and the strength of the
case against the offender.

Regards ..... Sue Smith
     smith@wisper.com
smith@wisper.com
From: blackbourner@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: welcome
Date: 8 Apr 92 08:40:43 CDT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

Welcome, Annie!

Erin Sue
From: asar.266@wpi.wpi.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Response to amy's post
Date: 16 Apr 92 19:00:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: wpi.1992Apr16.190028.16321
Followup-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service @ WPI
X-Aps2-Version: 2.1

amy:
In response to your post, I'm going through the same thing now too. I'm
having tons of memories recently, and my sister is confirming for me alot of
abuse that went on that I haven't even remembered yet. So rationally I
know that my father was a child molester. But to really BELIEVE that and
fully ACCEPT that is very difficult. Alot of it has to do with the fact
that I've discovered that I tried to tell people about the abuse when I
was little, but know one listened or believed me or did anything.

The good news is: For me, believing way-deep-down that I was abused is
DIRECTLY related to my self-esteem! Its really amazing. I've had some luck
with self-reinforcement (there's a more popular word for this but I can't
remember it), eg. saying "I believe you Joanie" over and over again, and
posting it around the house, etc.

Who else has worked on these type of dis-belief issues?

Courage to all,

Joanie
(An e-mole read-only type 
who sometimes pops her head up)


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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: asar.315@wpi.wpi.edu  
Subject:  Inner Child
Followup-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
X-Aps2-Version: 2.1
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service @ WPI
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 18:02:17 GMT




 Hello,

 I have a question for anyone who cares to answer it.  I have been
 reading "The Courage to Heal" and one of the chapters deals with
 the inner child.  I haven't been able to figure out what they are
 talking about.  Can anyone help me to understand?
 
 Thanks,
 Kat



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From: v039eag3@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Amy R Phillips)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Telling
Date: 13 Apr 92 04:54:00 GMT
Followup-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr12.180253.21045@wpi.WPI.EDU>, asar.317@wpi.wpi.edu writes...
> 
>Hello all.
> 
>I can't post from my site so I'm posting using the posting service.  My
>address is at the bottem though.
> 
>I finally told my mother about my abuse.  It was the hardest thing I think
>I've ever done.  I don't know if anyone ever read my first posting from
>Monday cause I didn't see any replies to it.  So I'm gonna repeat some
>stuff.
> 
>I was abused by my mom's boyfriend when I was 7-8 years old.  I've been
>in counseling for the past 6 months.  And I finally told her.  I had so
>many opportunities durring the day Friday.  We were alone almost all the
>day.  But I was unable to do it till it was getting near time for me to
>go home.  But I did it.  It was immeasuarably hard to get each word out.
>And once I said the words, "Phil sexually abused me", she looked with
>shock for a moment, and said "Oh my god, what did he do"?  And then she
>held me and we both started crying.
> 
>I was a little afraid that she might not believe me.  But she did.  We
>held each other and cried and talked about it for over an hour.  She felt
>resposible, but I told her she wasn't, and that I loved her.  I am so proud
>of myself for finally being able to tell her.
> 
>E-hugs to all.  I'm so happy!
> 
> 
>Edward Tyrrill
>cerebus@ucrmath.ucr.edu

Hi edward!  wow!!  i wish that i could do that , telling.  i am so happy for
you, what courage and strength.  you gave ne hope that someday i will be able
to do the same.
thanks...
in courage...
amy
u
From: enigma@netcom.com (Enigma)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: thelma and louise (movie)
Date: 16 Apr 92 02:19:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.=lzj=2=.enigma
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <45629@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> Bede_Jarrow@hikssrv.lib.purdue.edu (Bron) writes:
>I saw the movie "Thelma and Louise" for the first time Sunday night and was
>appalled at my feelings:  I found myself cheering these women on for committing
>crimes!  lately I've gotten in touch with a lot of anger I have towards men,
>especially ones in authority.  (I must say that I do not feel angry at any men
>on this net, nor really men in general).  It was good to see women as
>non-victims.

Oh, that is so weird!  *I* saw "Thelma and Louise" for the first time 
a few days ago, it might even have been Sunday.  I thought everybody in
the world except me had already seen it!  (spoiler alert:  if you haven't
seen it, skip the rest of this article).  I found myself cheering them on
too, although at the same time I kept thinking of ways I would have handled
the various situations if it had been me.  (I'd also like to say I don't 
feel angry at men in general, just at the ones that behave like the men
in the movie).  

Anyway, if I had been Louise, I would have held the gun on the guy from
the bar and sent Thelma in to call the police.  Of course, then there
would have been no movie...  All through the movie I kept saying things
like "She's not going to leave the money with *Thelma* is she?  Oh my
god...".  But I was cheering my head off when they blew up that jerk's
tractor-trailer with all the gasoline in it - served him right!  Of
course, I would never have done something like that, being the
law-abiding type that I am - but I would have *wanted* to.


>         Intellectually I don't think crime is good, and I think there are
>more positive ways to deal with an abusive past.  But something in me cheered
>for them.  I think it was Thelma who was the more passive character at the
>beginning and she really came alive during the movie, letting her hair down,
>making choices, taking risks.  In some ways I feel I'm doing that lately
>(although cerntainly not committing crimes.)  I was happy for her.  How did
>others feel about this movie?

How did I feel about it?  I loved it, while I was actually watching it.
Then the next day I went into a really deep depression - I'm positive I
posted about it on here, how I was looking into the mirror thinking how
ugly I was and how much I hated myself, and then finally realizing it 
wasn't *me* I hated, it was those a******s in the movie.   I think you're
right about Thelma, she seemed so childlike, but a child who was learning
and trying new things.  She made a lot of mistakes though, but in a way
that's okay.  If she'd gotten the kind of input she needed earlier, before
their lives were on the line, she could have been one hell of a woman.

On some level I'm still angry, though.  I don't really know what to do
about that...

-- 
Enigma (enigma@netcom.com)
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: Re: sex/power
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 17:20:12 GMT

In article <2479@keele.keele.ac.uk> csz55@seq1.keele.ac.uk (Christopher Wrigley) writes:
>
>From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
>Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
>Subject: sex/power
>=>  I'm not about to call judgement on a relationship between a 15-year
>=> old and a 21-year-old, or even better, a 17-year-old and a 21-year-
>=> old (adult/child in all states of the u.s.)---unless one or both were
>=> extensively abused as younger kids, in which case they might be
>=> advised to watch out for unexpected consequences in their current
>=> relationship!
>
>Maybe it's me, Matt.... But I don't really understand what your trying
>to say here.

Two things.  One, there are relationships involving minors which are sexual
in nature but are clearly either child's play or adult/adult consensual
relationships, and these are outside of the "paedophilic" abusive relationships
I was talking about;  two, folks who were abused by adults before
getting into a relationship may tend to experience strain in their later
attempts at genuine consensual relationships. 

Hi, Chris.  Please explain in detail how a child can be structurally in
power over an adult.  Please also explain in detail the use of the term
"paedophilic relationship" that you are making, and how you propose that
the consequence of such a relationship can be completely outside the
category of abuse.  Until you do that, I can't begin to comment on anything
you've said on the matter, except to say that it _sounds_ like bunk.

Matt