From: khaikin@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 08:07:55 GMT

In article <1992Nov22.064332.13347@u.washington.edu> nobby@hardy.u.washington.edu (Vitaly Shmatikov) writes:
>In article <1992Nov22.054749.7481@cis.ohio-state.edu> khaikin@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin) writes:
>
>[... stuff deleted ...]
>
>>I don't really care what xnity is. I know one thing, it is not Judaism
>>and that's all a Jew has to know. As far as I am concerned xnity is a
>>stolen religion, stolen from Judaism and later used as a weapon in
>>domestic affairs. It is not the xnity that is lurking out there to
>>snatch non-Orthodox Jews, it is non-Orthodox Jews who are out there not
>>understanding that they are not attached enough to Judaism and not
>>protected from being snatched. Although, xnity does snatch too. 
>>One my friends who is an Orthodox Rabbi told me a story (true story),
>>that when he was studing in college to become a dentist one of the guys
>>tried to convert him to xnity. So, he asked that guy why of all people
>>he chose him? The guy answered that in his ch. they get points for
>>converting people. Boy, was I shocked when I heard this, but was even
>>more shocked when I heard the last part of the story. It turned out that
>>they get 1 point for converting any person, they get 2 points for
>>converting a Jew. So, the guy figured that if converts a Rabbi he is
>>going to get 3 points at least. So, they are out there, but no, they are
>>not the main problem. I did talk to the guy that basically converted
>>that girl. He is as damn as... So, he is not the one who really pulled
>>her into this, she is the one who pulled herself into this. That's why I
>>blamed R. Yeah, you can blame the parents too, and you should, but the
>>parents are reform and did everything that any other person in their
>>synagogue did. It is not that I am looking for a reason to blame R. or
>>C., it is just that I did thought about it alot and all arguments leed
>>to the R. 
>>
>
>The whole story sounds fishy to me. Church awarding bonus points for 
>the Jewish converts? Sorry, pal, I don't buy this. I appreciate your
>religious fervor but let's not resort to the arguments that are not only 
>of ambiguous rhetorical value but also deeply offensive to many people.
>I'm even ready to scrap my doubts about accuracy of your account per se
>but if you're acting in good will you must admit that such a behaviour
>is highly untypical for almost all major Christian denominations in this
>country (with probable exception of LDS).

Not the ch. As I understood the story that it is like points for j..
That was not the point at all though. If you want you can ignore that
story. You know what, pal, it is JEWISH newsgroup, not xian. If I wanted to
offend xians I would write to a different newsgroup. Where else can a
Jew speak out.


>
>You see, I'm not a Christian. But is there any need to churn in hatred
>and bring wild accusations which in this case are also totally
groundless?

They are not groundless. And I know that many people are not going
to like this, but if that's what it takes to stay Jewish, then yes. But
Orthodox Jews don't hate xtians, although I am sure some do (can't blame
them either, I personally have a lot of reasons to hate them, but I
don't, believe it or not I don't). Now, ideal is not to hate anybody,
but if we are deciding between hating a xian and being a Jew then yes
you should definately choose hating a xian. Although, it is better to
remain a Jew and not hate a xian. See, things like this come up and they
would never have came up in an Orthodox setting, there is not need for
them to come up. You don't hate people, that's all. It is one of our
main believes: Love another like you love yourself.

>The OCR debate seems to stem from a deep concern that every Jew feels about
>his people and his cultural heritage regardless of the branch of Judaism he 
>adheres to. But is it so necessary to allude to Christianity as a source of
>evil that is lurking in darkness ready to snatch lost Jewish souls?
>

In my context, yes, it was. But hten again, like I said, you can ignore
the story. That was not the point.

>When your sermons remained within the framework of Judaism they looked fine. 
>But once you ventured outside you indiscriminately smeared a lot of people
>in a couple of wide sweeps. They might be 'goyim' for you. But if this is
>the case how can you expect them to treat *your* beliefs with due respect if 
>they happen not to share them?
>
>nobby@u.washington.edu
>
>[... rest deleted ...]

Note, that there is a big difference between goyim and xians. xians are
goyim, but goyim are not necessarily xtians. Now if they are xtians then
it is not the place for them to complain. They can read it they can even
respond, nobody is saying they can't respond, but I am not considering
them as part of this newsgroup and will simply not respond. It is enough
troble to worry about people that are going to misinterpret what I said,
if I am going to worry about xtians too... I don't really care. It is
like would get offended at me writing the name of j. not capitalized.
Could they get offended at that? Yes. Am I going to start writing it the
way they write it and care if they get offended if I don't? NO, I won't.
This is a Jewish newsgroup, so I don't really care if I am going to say
something offensive to xians because I assume that they should not be
reading it anyway. With any other newsgroup is another issue, but with
this one, that is it.

You said that you are not a xtian. Well, the way you put it you are not
Jewish either. What are you? Am I right to say that you are from Russia?

Thanks,
Dima
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.
  "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah."____ The Zohar.
   khaikin@cis.ohio-state.edu (Dmitry Khaikin, Columbus Ohio, USA)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish