HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: darling@cellar.org (Thomas Darling)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: atari users, go home!
Date: 22 Aug 92 03:04:12 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

robert.buonincontro@canrem.com (robert buonincontro) writes:

> Please stop your Amiga bashing, if Amiga users want to read about the Atari
> Falcon then they will view the Atari nets. 

This is comp.sys.amiga.ADVOCACY, robert.  A group created to discuss why the
Amiga is a better choice than other computers.  You appear to be saying that
the Amiga is the best, but only if you don't compare it to other machines.

Further, these are newsgroups, not "nets."

In addition, if you do not wish to see posts that mention the Atari or any
other computer, you have the option to not read them.  They are clearly
labeled.

And if you regard the "bashing" as lopsided against the Amiga, you really
haven't been reading the messages at all.
 
> If any Amiga users agree with what I have said and these users continue
> with their Amiga bashing, then I invite you to post some information about
> the 'AA' chipset, the new Amigas ect. in the Atari Usenet conferences.

Atari users do not have or desire an .ADVOCACY group, so this would not be
appropriate.  Posting as you suggest in one of the Atari groups would only
show that you lack the basic ettiquette required to participate in this
forum.  Please grow up or ask your sysop to explain nettiquette to you.

^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\\\^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Thomas A. Darling \\\ Fact HQ Studio * record production * dance re-mixing
darling@cellar.org \\\ music for film * The Cellar BBS:215/654-9184 * FACT
v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~\\\~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~
From: "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: no aa machines in sep
Date: 15 Aug 92 14:46:43 EST
Reply-To: "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com>
Distribution: comp
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

Andrew L. Hansford Writes,

AL>Yes.  We've all heard many rumors.  A4000, A3400, A2200, A800. The AA
AL>and 3.0 documentation.  But what have we seen: the A600, the
AL>A3000T-040 and 2.1 beta.

AL>We've heard 2.1 in Oct 3.0 next year.
AL>We've heard 3.0 and 2.1 is skipped.


AL>We wonder why if C= is coming out with NEW machines (AA, new sound,
AL>DSP) then why the A600 and A3000T-040 now.

AL>The fact is most of us don't know and C= can even change the info they
AL>send developers.

AL>I'm not saying the AA machines will definitely not be introduced in
AL>September, but they may not be.  Everyone seems so sure but everyone
AL>has different "facts".  Hey, I'll be checking news often during the WOA
AL>show.  I'd love to see and 020/030, AA, new sound, HD floppy, IDE, with
AL>a couple of slots (ZIII, video, cpu).

AL>Question: If the AA is ready but 3.0 isn't, should C= sell AA
AL>machines with 2.1 which would only use the ECS modes?  Surely someone
AL>will tap into the AA and start using it for pd utilities.  What if C=
AL>said that you would receive 3.0 later for free?  for a fee?  Should
AL>3.0 beta be made available to AA machine owners a la 2.0 2.01 2.03??

AL>-- Andrew Hansford
AL>   ahansfor@wpi.wpi.edu

 I would care if they didn't release new machines with the AA chipset this
year as long as they announce the AA chipset. Not knowing if it's a rumour
of if it's reall is driving me up the wall!
  
 If the chip was available but the new machines weren't ready yet, I'd think
Commodore would start selling the chips. The more chips you get out there,
the more programs your going to see utilizing them.
---
  DeLuxe 1.12 #8947  I tried the rest but bought the best!!!!
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: aa chip set
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:44:10 GMT

"robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com> writes:
>GJ>     Will the new chipset be available for the Amiga 500 and 2000/2500 models,
>GJ>     or will Commo keep with its "tradition" and screw owners of those
>GJ>     machines just like they did owners of the A1000??
>
> Best to wait for the chips to be released. We don't even know if the chips
>are for real! It's probably more then likely that the chips will fit in
>older model Amigas. Even if they can't fit, There will probably be upgrades
>or 3rd praty solutions!
> 
> As for Commodore screwing owners. First people bitch that they don't release
>a new machine and when they do, they bitch that they can't use their old
>machine!

Wow, has Commodore released the new chip set while I was away?  (It has been
about 16 hours...)

-- Gerald
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: DIR
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 02:37:52 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.153849.423@seas.gwu.edu> gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>
>I bet a software emulator would run pretty well on that 040...

Yes, and could jog six miles to school in the Fall...but I won't.

>-- Gerald


--
*Dan Stephenson   das9674@usl.edu 
*"It reminds me of something Cally said. 'He who trusts cannot be
*betrayed, only mistaken.' It was a saying of her people.... Cally is
*dead. So are most of her people." -Avon, from _Rescue_ (Blakes 7)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata FSO)
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Reply-To: ata@hfsi.UUCP (John Ata FSO)
Organization: HFSI, McLean VA.
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 21:50:56 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.204252.16256@ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>ata@hfsi.UUCP (John Ata FSO) writes:
>>
>>>And how much of a machine do you need to run UNIX with X11?  Sun decided
>>>that the 680x0 line was not fast enough, and sells most of its Sparcstations
>>>with at least 32MB RAM.  What about Mac System 7?  It's a joke on anything
>>>less than a IIci w/8MB RAM.  Don't compare OS/2 2.0 to AmigaDOS -- AmigaDOS
>>>isn't even close in terms of functionality, so it shouldn't take Sherlock
>>>Homes to figure out that it requires less hardware.
>>
>>I interpreted that to mean that you thought OS/2 was in a class above
>>AmigaDOS 2.0.
>>
>
>Why, John, why?  Nowhere in the quote above did I say that OS/2 is in a
>class above AmigaDOS 2.0.  All I said was that it has features that AmigaDOS
>lacks, and that those features contribute to OS/2's resource requirements.
>This is a fact.  You cannot argue with facts.  Whether or not those extra
>features are advantages is an issue on which I clearly did *not* comment!
>

I guess it comes down to what one means by saying that one
operating system in in a "class" above another.  For example, most
people would agree that Unix is in a class above the Vic-20's
operating system.  Why?  Because of the loads of functionality and
features that Unix has over the Vic-20.  In the same way, I took
your statment to mean similarly that OS/2 was also in a class
above AmigaDOS 2.04 because of its enhanced "functionality" which
caused it to require more hardware.  Does this clarify things a
bit (I hope)?

>| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |


-- 
John G. Ata - Technical Consultant | Internet:     hfsi!ata@UUNET.UU.NET
HFS, Inc.		  VA20     |     UUCP:     uunet.uu.net!hfsi!ata
7900 Westpark Drive	 MS:601	   |    Voice:	(703) 827-6810
McLean, VA  22102	           |      FAX:	(703) 827-3729
From: barrett@scooby.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Hah! (was Re: Huh?)
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:58:10 GMT
Reply-To: barrett@scooby.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Organization: BLAZEMONGER INCORPORATED

In article <64394@cup.portal.com> Gleeep@liar.anus.com (Dave - Silon) writes:
>Based on YOUR postings, I thought this was
>alt.bondage.hairy.monkeyDomination.blindness, but please correct me if I'm
>wrong...if you can still see your keyboard, that is.

	Hey, I'm not the one with the overhanging forehead, bison breath.

>...since your head is filled with blazepuke, there's probably no room for
>anything else.  These polydimensional subtleties pass you by as you admire
>your stylish orange velcro pant suit in the mirror (standard attire of all
>blazepuke customer service wimps and also the reason they are frequently
>stuck to each other).

	I bet you'd enjoy a visit from those "Customer Service" reps.
They have been practicing new manuevers with tweezers and sharpened
warrantee cards.
 
>Wait don't tell me...let me guess...you also have a styrofoam bobbing head
>He-Man doll glued to the dashboard of your Pacer, right?

	At least I don't kidnap "Barbie" dolls and pose them spread-eagled
outside of convents, while spooning "Noodle-Roni" into the Pope's nose.
Get a life, you Mac weenie.

                                                        Dan

 //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
| Dan Barrett -- Dept of Computer Science, Lederle Graduate Research Center |
| University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA  01003  --  barrett@cs.umass.edu |
 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: judd@wilkinson.cs.colorado.edu (Stephen Judd)
Subject: Re: Perot ?
Organization: Universtiy of Coloardo, Boulder
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 14:23:28 GMT

In article <3565@faatcrl.UUCP> jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) writes:
>judd@wilkinson.cs.colorado.edu (Stephen Judd) writes:
>
>  The Osprey and the Bradley fighting vehicle are not examples of high tech
>wizardry, they are both failures, technically and economically (except for the
>people employed to build them).

A subjective opinion.  Many people disagree.  My opinion on the matter shall
remain unstated.

>
>  There's no doubt that a lot of civilian products are developed as a result
>of the R&D done in the milatary sector, but not all of it is worthwhile.

No doubt.

>  You wagered badly.  I was a surface-to-air and cruise missile technician
>in the Navy, my understanding of nuclear weapons and their effects is quite
>sound.

My sincere apologies.

>
>  When a radically large EMF pulse is passed over anything conductive you
>will generate current as the field saturates then collapses, it is the basic
>principle behind electric motors and generators.  If the force is so powerful
>it can generate enough current to destroy a circuit.

Unfortunately, I am not allowed to talk about this where nuclear weapons are
concerned (beyond what you could read in "The Effects of Nuclear Weapons").

>
>  It is also the principle used to neutralize airborn radar jammers too, focus
>a radar beam with enough power at the jamming transmitter and you will induce
>enough feedback to fry the power amp.
>
>>I believe you meant "EMP" pulse (which is technically a redundancy).
>
>  EMP is the corrupted term, it is an ElectroMotive Force pulse, few people
>know what EMF is though.

I am aware of what EMF is.  I have never heard of EMP being referred to in 
such a manner.  As a matter of fact, nobody up or down the hall has.  Was
that some sort of Navy term used to avoid classification issues?

>
>>Some people make this argument.  The Air Force makes the argument that we,
>>and hence the Soviets, would hold a portion of the force in reserve, to hit
>>targets that might have been missed in the first attack.  I will leave it to
>>you to read a military planner's mind and decide for yourself what the
>>correct answer is.
>
>  Hopefully that answer will remain unknown.

You get one opinion from me: I certainly hope so; so much that I do something
about it.

>
>  -jack-
					-Steve
--
judd@sgt-york.lanl.gov
judd@colorado.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: No AA machines in September -- NOT!
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 06:24:16 GMT

kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes:
: Of course, we now know that the soothsayer wasn't talking about Caesar's
: upcoming death, but about something much further in the future:
: 
: "Beware the machines with IDE disk interfaces!"

I had no idea that Shakespeare was so...  forward thinking.  ;)

It wasn't the IDES of march, it was the IDEs of March...  What a
revelation.  Guess it's time to rewrite that CDTV Disc then.  ;)

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :) :)
(:	  "Flesh-pressing:  It's not just for politics anymore."         :)
(:	gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu			Gregory R. Block         :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
From: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:   Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Date: 17 Aug 92 11:33:42 GMT
Reply-To: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Organization: Commodore Germany

In article <root.02ab@rkamiga.UUCP> root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
 >In article <9517@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com> peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany) writes:
 >>In article <root.0295@rkamiga.UUCP> root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
 >> >
 >> >This would seem to be politically unsound on the part of Commodore.  When
 >> >China takes over Hong Kong in 1997, Commodore could easily lose that plant.
 >> >At this time, companies who are already in Hong Kong are working on
 >> >contingency plans for pulling out.
 >>
 >>Hmm, interesting point. But it can easily be reversed: Commodore is today
 >>already very strong in the eastern european markets. How about invading
 >>the *BIG* chinese market from inside??? (Just a speculation :-)
 >
 >The Chinese market for computers is mainly in education and the government.
 >There might be a good market for the A3000 running UNIX.  The 68030 can be
 >exported from the US to China, but the 68040 is too powerful.

Huh, UNIX??? In Chinese schools??? Come on, even in Europe, *schools* (not
universities) never deal with UNIX, they have little A500's or cheap PCs
(not too few from Commodore :-). But UNIX? And remember that China definitely
has less money to spend than Europe. So Commodore with its machines on the
low end of the price scale should indeed be appropriate, but with A500 and
its siblings.

-- 
Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel  // E-Mail to \\  Only my personal opinions...
Commodore Frankfurt, Germany  \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
				   or  peterk@public.sub.org
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Subject: Re: real prices!
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Distribution: comp
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:27:31 GMT

>To all those users who complain about the pricing of an Amiga 3000.
>What planet are you guys shopping on? I have been looking at some ads
>in a local computer paper. The prices on I've found for an Amiga 3000
>are in the range of $2200-$2599. These prices are for a 25 mhz 3000.

	You're right, but thats without a monitor and with only 2 meg of
    ram, and a 52 meg HD.  Around here, when you add on the monitor the
    25/2/52 A3000 is around $2900.
> 
>I have also seen some ads for 486 based computers. The prices for a 486 with
>simular specs range in the area of $1888-$2499. I don't consider the A3000
>prices outrages when they are compared to those prices.

	Take a look at the Gateway 2k ads.  50mhz 486DX2, 8 meg ram, 200meg
   HD, ATI Graphics Ultra, and monitor for $2695.  Add on OS2 2.0 and a
   Gravis Ultrasound card and your around $2900.  When you consider both
   systems, I say the A3000 is overpriced.

> In case you don't know these prices are Canadian. With the current exchange
>rate I would say an Amiga 3000 would sell for $2000 in the US. Please stop
>saying the Amiga 3000 has a Suggested Retail price of $5000. A Suggest Retail

	I think the $5000 price that you are talking about is for the 040
   A3000T, not the regular A3000.  The 040 A3000T retails for $5995 and the
   dealer around here expects to sell them at $5100.   

>price isn't even close to what a product usually sells for. It's merly a guide.
>A good example is US Robotics, I called them to find out their prices of a
>US Robotics Dual Standard. They said the SRP was $1299 US! Local stores
>are selling them for $899 Canadian.

	The local dealer here is chopping off $900 from the $5995 price, but
   that doesn't help much.  Its still overpriced.

 
							G.Greene

>---
> ~ DeLuxe} 1.12 #8947 ~ I tried the rest but bought the best!!!!
>--
>Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
>World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:22161 alt.flame:12248 aus.computers:210
From: cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams)
Subject: Re: No AA machines in September -- NOT!
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 05:08:04 GMT

In article <kdarling.714191933@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu> kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes:
>Of course, we now know that the soothsayer wasn't talking about Caesar's
>upcoming death, but about something much further in the future:
>
>"Beware the machines with IDE disk interfaces!"
>
>:-)

This doesn't seem a very well kept secret! :-)  C= may as well announce
the new machines now.

>kev <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>

-- 
Colin Adams       Honours Student - James Cook University of North Queensland
  "And if I seem a little strange, well that's because I am." - The Smiths
From: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kelvin Leung)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: SCSI II Controllers
Date: 14 Aug 92 02:47:37 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

rickan@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Mark Rickan) writes:

>Not to mention the possibility of SCSI II controllers, as the drives
>are becoming more prevalent and two vendors already have support
>integrated into their accelerators.

Two?? try three!!!   GVP (GForce 040), PP&S (Zeus) and CSA (Magnum).

Didn't mean to flame, but I am just psyched to hear about them... too bad
my checkbook doesn't have enough digits to support one of those...

>Mark

>-- 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> = Mark Rickan                         ...!uunet!utai!utgpu!maccs!rickan = 
> = DCSS, McMaster University               rickan@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca = 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Yours Sincerely,
Kelvin


                                            ____________________________
 __________________________________________/ Undergraduate, Class of 94 \___ 
 ____________________________________________________________/_____\________
| Kelvin     /   Internet: Kelvin.Leung@Dartmouth.edu       ({o   o})       |
|   Leung   /       or     abs0@Coos.Dartmouth.edu        <  #  ^  #  >     | 
|__________/_______________________________________________(vvvvvvvvv)------|
| "Unless someone like you cares a whole |  Aaahhhh!!! It's a beast...      |
|  awful lot, nothing is going to get    |    ... no, no... it's a doll...  |
|  better.  It's not."                   |       ... what is it?            |
|               -- Dr. Seuss (The Lorax) | either way... it's here!!!       |
 ________________________________________^__________________________________ 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: bill@snoopy (Bill Poitras)
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Reply-To: bill@msi.com
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 19:53:51 GMT

David Meiklejohn (davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au) wrote:
: Question for OS/2 experts:  Is it possible to set up a "virtual workspace",
: larger than the screen, that automatically scrolls (smoothly) as the mouse is
: dragged past the edge of the screen in OS/2?  Can a shell window be wider than
: the screen, allowing the user to scroll sidewise to see wide file listing or
: whatever, as needed?

This functionality is based on your display driver.  The boards based on
the Trident 8900 chipset have drivers which do this.

--
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Bill Poitras    | Molecular Simulations Inc.    | Tel (408)522-9229       |
| (bill)          | Sunnyvale, CA USA             |                         | 
|                 | FAX (408)732-0831             | bill@msi.com            |
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Video Games Superior on Consoles
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:31:04 PST
Organization: TAP, NZAmigaUG

Quoted from <1992Aug17.232743.8287@news.columbia.edu> by stc7@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Steven T Chiang):

> 	Why don't you stick to talking about stuff you KNOW something
> about.  Othwerise you open your mouth, and look, well, stupid.  See below.

    Hot damn! The Apple IIGS guys whiz bast the Atari ST folks at a
    breakneck speed...

> Steven Chiang                  Order - DreamGrafix:  The ONLY 16/256/3200
--
*** John Bickers, TAP, NZAmigaUG.        jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 22:13:33 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu


peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany) writes:
>> 
>> *I* am quick to assume the worst without checking further?!  Me?!  I'm not
>> the one who posts stuff like, "ISA bus with a 50MHz CPU?  That must really
>> suck!"
>
>Well, but you are always the one stating that the very PC features are "much
>better" than the corresponding Amiga features.
>

Peter, it's time for you to start actually *reading* the articles whose
authors you accuse.  And before you accuse someone else of being negative
towards one system or another, take a look at yourself:

	"Snicker. Because there is such a schisma in the PC world and such
	 a load with some *ancient* OS that current OS'es still have to
	 support, you will tell *me* as a *feature* or *advantage*???
	 Hahahahahahahahaha!!!"

And then you have the nerve to claim that you're unbiased?!  Oh my.

>
>And when someone posts his
>real-life experiences with PCs, you call him a liar.
>

Oh yeah right.  You're talking about the guy who said that OS/2 on a 486/33
runs about 20 times slower than AmigaDOS on an A500.  Sorry, but it sounds to
me like he got that story from the same place where you got the idea that I'm
anti-Amiga.

>>
>> Did I say that OS/2 is in a class above AmigaDOS?  
>
>Yes, sure, every second sentence from you implies that.
>

I challenge you to provide some examples of this.

>
>Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel  // E-Mail to \\  Only my personal opinions...
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy