HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: richman@reepicheep.gcn.uoknor.edu (Mike Richman)
Subject: Re: Anti-Hurricane in the North Atlantic?
Reply-To: richman@reepicheep.gcn.uoknor.edu (Mike Richman)
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 21:50:36 GMT

In article <Aug26.181941.41887@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, kjun@typhoon.atmos.colostate.edu (Pat Fitzpatrick) writes:
|> In article <tlm1.714848863@Ra.MsState.Edu> tlm1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Terry Matula) writes:
|> > I noticed 
|> >that in the North Atlantic there was another large spiral of clouds.  This
|> >spiral had a diameter many (10?) times larger than Andrew, but was spinning
|> >in the opposite (clockwise) direction.  Heck, it even had a visible eye in
|> >the center.  The weather-person must have noticed that my attention had
|> >drifted over to this new, more impressive storm and quickly said that the
|> >North Atlantic disturbance was non-tropical in nature and nothing to worry
|> >about.
|> 
|> It's a TUTT (tropical upper-tropospheric trough) which has become quite
|> vigorous, and has even burrowed down to the lower troposphere. It is not
|> tropical in nature, and has mid-latitude charcteristics such as being
|> cold-cored (a hurricane is warm-core) and being baroclinic (a hurricane
|> is essentially barotropic). By baroclinic, we mean a sheared environment
|> with temperature contrast. A strictly barotropic atmosphere has no
|> temperature contrast with no wind shear.
|> 
|> However, on occasion these TUTT cells do transform themselves into a
|> tropical system. This is most common in the Pacific, but does (and, in
|> fact, happened twice last year, I believe) happen occasionally in the
|> Atlantic. Hence, it does bear watching.......
|> 
|> As for the eye, I haven't seen today's satellite photo, but I don't recall
|> seeing one. TUTT's rarely have an eye.
|> 
|> Pat Fitzpatrick

ABNT20 KMIA 262128
TROPICAL WEATHER OUTLOOK
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE MIAMI FL
530 PM EST WED AUG 26 1992
...
CLOUDINESS AND SHOWERS IN THE VICINITY OF BERMUDA ARE ASSOCIATED
WITH A BROAD LOW PRESSURE AREA.  THIS SYSTEM SHOWS SOME SIGNS OF
ORGANIZATION AND A TROPICAL DEPRESSION MAY FORM IN THE NEXT DAY
OR TWO
...
-- 
 Mike Richman                        |CIMMS/The University of Oklahoma
 richman@reepicheep.gcn.uoknor.edu   |100 East Boyd, Room 1110
 405-325-3460 (office) 325-7614 (fax)|Norman, OK  73019-0628  USA
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Lightning Photography Query
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:18:45 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Reply-To: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   

I've always shot with a tripod and a cable release, preferring 
Panatomic-X for black-and-white and Kodachrome for color (both
pretty slow films).  Mostly I've shot at night, focused on 
infinity, using f-numbers in the mid-to-low range with my ol'
standby 35-105 zoom lens racked out to whatever focal length
gives me a good composition.   In the daytime you'll probably 
have to play with neutral-density filters.  Note that thunder-
storms have a rhythm to them, so you can guess approximately 
when the next stroke is going to come along and squeeze the
bulb accordingly.  

As for stuff to carry, don't forget some lens wipers in a plastic
bag to knock little water droplets off your filter or (dios mio)
your poor naked lens.  And a plastic bag big enough to drape over
the whole camera if the rain sneaks up on you and you have to make 
a run for it.

Artistically, look at some weather books and magazine articles to
learn what the cliches are.  However, lightning is compelling 
enough for even the old chestnuts to be interesting.

Finally, remember that "Film Is Cheap!"  I've never been one of
those guys who practically shoot 35mm home movies with an autowinder, 
but when you're dealing with a phenomenon as capricious as lightning,
it's definitely better to shoot plenty while you can and throw out
the bad ones later.

--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.environment
From: hamm@weejordy.physics.mun.ca (Craig Hamm)
Subject: Re: Storm surges/Ekman flow
Organization: Ocean Sciences Centre
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 00:07:29 GMT


	I've read in a few posts here that 'wind blows the water to the coast'
	and/or similar statements.  Nobody has mentioned Ekman flow!!

	I would imagine that the surge is due to the Ekman flow induced
	by the southward components of the wind in the vicinity of the
	h'cane.  The southward flow will put stress on the surface and
	tend to cause Ekman flow westward, i.e. the east coast, or Florida
	in recent history.  This seems the best explanation, in nutshell
	form anyhow.  Huh? Am I right, or just insane?  (Other effects may/
	will exist I admit).


	
-- 
  
    Craig Hamm, 		From 'Viz', Victor Pratt, the stupid twat
    Memorial University	        Biker: "My bike's got a flat, Vic"
    DoD #1500,           	Vic:   "Really? Whereabouts is it living?"
    '81 Maxim 650 
    ----
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: RE: RSMAS is back in business
Date: 31 Aug 92 18:39:21 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, dean@coconut.rsmas.miami.edu (dean) wrote:
>The Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science (RSMAS) at the 
>University of Miami is open for business (almost) as usual as of
>Monday, 31 August. 
> 
>Hurricane Andrew caused erosion along the campus beach, damaged the
>grounds, and caused limited damage to first-floor facilities.  A small
>satellite dish was dismantled by the winds and waves, leaving us
>without any incoming met data.  
> 
>All buildings are in good shape, no broken windows,
>and full electrical power was restored last week.  
> 
>The students, faculty and staff are safe, though some
>lost their homes. 

I heard rumors that the big sailboat in the middle of the Rickenbacker 
Causeway belonged to the school.

Atlantic Oceanographic and Meteorological Laboratories, across the
street, is still closed due to damage to the air conditioner.  While
people can work in 90F heat, the computers can't.  I'm not sure when
we'll be back.  As with RSMAS, many people lost their homes, but I
believe all are now accounted for.  Our building lost its skylight,
some screening, and a satellite dish was blown over, in addition
to just about every tree being blown down, and the AC problem.

We were lucky there.  The major damage on Key Biscayne is only
about two miles further south.  Unfortunately our anemometer was
rendered inoperable very early in the storm.

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: kjun@typhoon.atmos.colostate.edu (Pat Fitzpatrick)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.environment
Subject: Re: sea surface elevation beneath a hurricane
Date: 30 Aug 92 05:05:02 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University -- Atmos Sci

In article <1992Aug30.031546.10649@meteor.wisc.edu> stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu (Stephen Jascourt) writes:
>
>I guess we have to go through this again. The waters pile up because of the
>WINDS, not because of the reduced pressure. The increased sea elevation out
>at sea is relatively small; as the storm approaches the coast, the winds on
>the right half of the storm (when facing the direction the storm is moving, in
>the northern hemisphere) blow the water up against the coast, piling the water
>up. The storm surge is worst to the right of where the storm hits the coast,
>and is the cause of most hurricane deaths and the worst destruction. Waters
>tend to pile up in toward the center of the storm because the strong winds
>converge toward the center, so there is a smaller rise in water level
>following along with the storm, but the big storm surge is because of the
>wind-blown water piling up along the coast.

This is correct, but I thought I would add a bit more.

1) There is a sea level rise due to decreasing pressure, but it's minor
compared to sea rise due to wind stress. I think the ratio is something
like 1 meter per 10 mb drop in pressure, but I'm not sure (if someone
has this number, post it)

2) The storm surge is higher where there is a shallower slope of the
continental shelf. This means the Gulf of Mexico usually has a higher
surge than one on the east coast UNDER EXACT SAME HURRICANE SCENARIO.

3) The storm surge depends on the angle the storm hits the coast.
The worst case is a direct (perpendicular) landfall on coast; at an angle,
some of the water is deflected back to sea.

4) Other factors to consider -- the fetch and width of the storm, the speed
of the storm, tidal conditions, etc....

If one has a fairly large storm, moving slow but steady, hits at high tide,
and hits head-on, one can expect a fairly high surge. For major hurricanes,
it can easily exceed 20 feet. Add a few 5-10 foot waves on top, and you have
a disaster in the making.

Pat Fitzpatrick
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.environment
From: userDHAL@mts.ucs.UAlberta.CA (David Halliwell)
Subject: Atmospheric energy levels (was Re: Another hurricane-killing idea)
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 18:55:34 GMT

    With all this discussion of various ideas to kill hurricanes, it
occurred to me that a good comparison would be with ideas of using wind
as a source of renewable energy.

    Using wind as a source of energy assumes that the energy we remove
is only a small portion of that available. (Otherwise we would have a
drastic effect on weather/climate.)

    Using energy as a method of modifying hurricanes or weather assumes
that we have a source of energy which is large enough to have an effect
in comparison to the energy of the storm.

    I think that these are two mutually exclusive assumptions. Personally,
I expect wind to be a source of energy before we'll develop hurricane-
busting techniques.


Dave Halliwell
Department of Geography
University of Alberta
Edmonton, Alberta
From: sailor@cellar.org (Rick Emerson)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Wxsat mail list
Date: 25 Aug 92 18:23:09 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

With the interest in hurricanes, I'll remind people about wxsat mail list. 
This list carries all NOAA bulletins on GOES and the polar weather
satellites, occasional Meteosat schedules, and odds and ends including
*occasional* chatter from users.  I point the last out because many people
subscribe expecting chatter and occasional bulletins.  Some of the bulletins
(notably HRPT schedules) run to over 50KB a piece; that's a lot of numbers!
 
Setting up an APT ground station is relatively simple; a little harder than
building a PC from a stack of boards, a pile of screws, nuts, and bolts, and
a stack of floppies.  The FAQ lists sources and some background info.

Requests for information or a subscription go to
                          wxsat-request@ssg.com

Rick Emerson
Wxsat mail list administrator

 | Richard B. Emerson     | Reply to Rick@SSG.com                           |
 | System Support Group   |-------------------------------------------------+
 | Post Office Box 180    |   "Choose to chance the rapids                  |
 | Lansdale, PA 19446 USA |    And dare to dance the tide." -- Garth Brooks |
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith)
Subject: Are there any ftp sites with an animated Andrew loop?
Organization: The John P. Robarts Research Institute, London, Ontario
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 04:06:35 GMT

Something I haven't seen on tv yet is the entire (Bahamas to Louisiana)
satelite loop of the whole event (it seems they just show the the last
hour or two of movement at any one time).  

Has anyone put together a Grasprt .GL or .DL file of Andrew?
Also, is a hurricane just a big tornado?
And why didn't people get their boats further up the Florida coast, or
fly their planes out of there?  And why weren't supplies/food brought in
before the hurricane hit?

Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.environment,sci.misc
From: ssave@ole.cdac.com (Shailendra Save)
Subject: Re: Another hurricane-killing idea
Organization: CDAC, WA
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 03:16:58 GMT

In article <25AUG199222531905@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov> packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer) writes:
>Hurricane Andrew's strength was apparently reduced by
>another storm that interacted with it for a while.
>According to the NY Times,
>
>   "[Andrew's] energy had been sapped by a competing
>   low-pressure system to the north. This second 
>   storm not only competed for energy, its high-
>   level winds also clashed with those of the
>   hurricane, shearing and tearing the wall of
>   thunderstorms that made up its core."
>
>Interestingly enough, the same thing happened with
>Hurricane Hugo in 1989, if I recall. In each case,
>the implication is that the hurricane would have been
>even more dangerous had there been no competition,
>however short-lived, from the other system.
>
>In view of what such a competing storm could do to reduce
>the force of a hurricane, will it ever be feasible to
>manufacture a low-pressure area to do this?
>If so, how would it most likely be done?



  Say, how about a nuclear detonation which would create a
massive explosion and disturb the air enough to break the
hurricane?  I think that it is not necessary to create a 
low pressure area, a high pressure area would do just as well.
All you would need to do is to break the swirl of the hurricane.

-Shailendra
ssave@ole.cdac.com
From: stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu (Stephen Jascourt)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Anti-Hurricane in the North Atlantic?
Date: 26 Aug 92 23:55:31 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Meteorology and Space Science

In article <Aug26.181941.41887@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> kjun@typhoon.atmos.colostate.edu (Pat Fitzpatrick) writes:
>, and has mid-latitude charcteristics such as being
>cold-cored (a hurricane is warm-core) and being baroclinic (a hurricane
>is essentially barotropic). By baroclinic, we mean a sheared environment
>with temperature contrast. A strictly barotropic atmosphere has no
>temperature contrast with no wind shear.
>
>Pat Fitzpatrick

A hurricane is plenty baroclinic, but being warm core, the wind becomes
more anticyclonic with increasing height. A perfectly axisymmetric storm,
either cold or warm core, is equivalent barotropic-- the temperature and
pressure varies only radially, so the thermal shear is parallel to the 
geostrophic wind at all levels. Spiral bands break up axisymmetry-- the 
bands have both a radial and azimuthal component and all fields have 
cross-band gradients.  A strong hurricane like Andrew is probably close 
to equivalent barotropic because the mean radial gradients are much larger 
than the local azimuthal gradients (of pot temp, mix.rat., winds, p', etc.). 

Stephen Jascourt   stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: ladasky@netcom.com (John J. Ladasky II)
Subject: Weather Simulation Software?
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 17:02:55 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

Hi there!

	I was looking for a crude program - it doesn't have to be anything 
fantastic - that would model climate given a topographical map, vegetation,
windspeed information, etc.  Preferably for the PC, preferably public 
domain.  Any suggestions?

	Please email me, as I do not read the newsgroup.  Thanks in advance!

-- 
=============================================================================
 John J. Ladasky II ("ii")				(ladasky@netcom.COM)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Great composers do not borrow - they steal."  - John Ladasky		~ -	
(At the urging of fellow netter Lon Amerman, I stole the above		o o
 quote from Igor Stravinsky, who stole it from a statement made		 >
 by Pablo Picasso about painting, who stole it from...)			\_/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Talking about music is like dancing about architecture." - Elvis Costello?
							    Frank Zappa?
"Property is theft." - Groucho				    Laurie Anderson?
=============================================================================
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: RE: Exploiting instability (was Re: Atmospheric energy levels)
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:45:58 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, calvins@suzies.Eng.Sun.COM (Christopher Klein) wrote:
>In article <4SEP92.09541134@enh.nist.gov> aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
>>It's really not that exciting.
>>
>I can see maybe the 100th flight, especially if your're working.  But the
>first flight?  C'mon.....

Well, my first was Gilbert, not your ordinary storm.  Four passes of the
eye.  I fell asleep in the middle of the third.  It's jsut not as exciting
as it sounds.

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
From: arritt@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Could a hurricane be destroyed?
Date: 25 Aug 92 23:03:02 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <87010@netnews.upenn.edu>, gasser@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Nathan Gasser ><>  ) writes:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> 	A friend and I got to thinking, would there be any way
> to destroy, distract, or otherwise alter the course or makeup
> of a hurricane?  Say, for example, a fuel-air bomb were released
> near the eye of Andrew.  This would cause some sort of disturbance
> in wind patterns, no?  What would happen to Andrew in this situation?

For the FAE to have a significant effect on the storm's dynamics, it
probably would need to produce heating on a scale comparable to the
radius of deformation.  I don't have a calculator handy, but it
works out on the order of a few hundred kilometers.  That's one
heck of a big bomb!  Similar reasoning explains why nuclear weapons
don't produce cyclones -- although the heating is intense, the scale
is so small that the energy propagates away as gravity waves, so
that the disturbance is transient.  (Maybe acoustic modes are also 
important in the H-bomb case?)

> 	Any other thoughts on ways to alter a hurricane in any way?

Several hypotheses were proposed in the 1950's-60's.  I think there
may have even been some preliminary tests.

> Have I been watching too much Sci-Fi?  

You can never watch too much Sci-Fi ...

> 
> Nate.
________________________________________________________________________
Raymond W. Arritt                     |  Dept. of Physics and Astronomy  
Assistant Professor                   |  University of Kansas 
arritt@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu             |  Lawrence, KS  66045  
Apr  1 12:29:21 timed[92]: THIS MACHINE IS A SLAVE
Apr  1 12:29:27 timed[92]: THIS MACHINE IS A CANDIDATE
Apr  1 12:29:31 timed[92]: This machine is master
From: calvins@suzies.Eng.Sun.COM (Christopher Klein)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Eye of the Hurricane
Date: 26 Aug 1992 01:17:21 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: suzies

In article <1992Aug25.174335.3563@eplrx7.es.duPont.com> walker@eplrx7.es.duPont.com (Scott Walker) writes:
>The latest report puts the eye of Andrew at about 30nm wide.  I know that
>they eye of a hurricane is supposed to be relatively calm.  What do the 

Wow!  30nm?  That's one tight eye!

>people on the ground see when the eye passes over head?  Blue sky?  Are
>there birds and things flying around the inside?

Blue sky, sometimes. Depends on the structure of the eye.  It can be
very defined or rather undefined.  Chances are that it does not contain
flying critters.

>   When a recon plane flies into the eye, does it push straight in at a
>right angle?  Has there ever been a recon plane downed by a storm?  Has
>anyone out there ever ridden on one of these death-wish missions?

Wht death-wish?  I'd much rather fly into a 'caine on a recon than a 
commercial liner, safety wise.  Do you really think the scientists 
doing the recon work would risk their lives?

In the whole history of hurricaine flythroughs, only 1 plane has gone down.

`Chris

--
Christopher Klein   (415) 336-5959      |     Cacophony & Dyspepsia    |
calvins@suzies.Eng.Sun.Com              |             - * -            |
My comments are entirely my own, sheesh!|      Software Engineers      |
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: n3884@cray.com (Pete Palmer)
Subject: Why do Hurricanes Travel West?
Reply-To: n3884@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 25 Aug 92 13:05:50 CDT

I'm new to this newsgroup, so forgive me if this is in the FAQ file.

Hurricanes begin their life in the southern hemisphere off the west coast
of Africa and move northwest across the equator, and keep moving in a 
westward pattern -- contrary to the usual west-to-east pattern of our
weather.

Question1:  Why? 
Question2:  Does this in some way cause the circular motion of the storms?

Thanks.

Pete Palmer
From: sherwood@fenris.space.ualberta.ca (Sherwood Botsford)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: BOOM! yet another hurricane-killing idea
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:21:02 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada


Another thought about causing the disapation of hurricanes.   
These critters are significant in the heat transfer budget.   
If you nipped them in the bud, you may get further heating  
of the surface water in the tropics, and get to the point  
where you got a super hurricane that was un-nip-able.

Attempting to steer them is a better idea.
From: lance@lancea.actrix.gen.nz (Lance Andrewes)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Calculation Of Tide Tables
Distribution: world
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 01:28:14 GMT
Organization: none

syskdg@bigbrd.agchem.redwater.iol.ca writes in article <1992Aug26.172720.8032@bigbrd.agchem.redwater.iol.ca>:
> 
> I am looking for information, formulas or a PC based computer
> program that will calculate tide tables. Ideally, what I would
> like to be able to do is input a geographic location and generate
> a graph of the changing tide for the day (by minute) or week (by
> 5 to 10 minute increments) or by the month (by 10 to 15 minute
> increments). Is this possible to do?

It is possible to generate tide tables for a specific location.  The
tables are based on records of tides at a site, and the times can
change quickly in a short distance.  To calculate your own
tables, you need to get a list of "harmonic constants" for the site
of interest.

There was/is a program on CompuServe that does a good job, and has
information on where to obtain the constants.  It was in the IBMAPP
forum.  Here the file info:  

                          File Info for TIDE.EXE 

 Section: Tech/Engr/Sci [A]     Contributer: 71061,1762         Size: 106359
 Submitted: 01/05/90            Type: Binary                Accesses: 52
 Title: TIDES v 1.6; tide prediction program
  Keys: TIDE TIDAL OCEAN FLOOD CURRENT EBB

 "This is a series of programs for predicting the height of the tide or
 the strength of the tidal current at given stations. They run on IBM
 compatible machines under MS-DOS or IBM-DOS. The method and format
 followed in the predictions are generally those used by the National
 Service (NOS) in the standard tide and current tables." - Quote from the
 documentation. Self-extracting (Lharc) to about 190K.  User supported. 

__
 _______  Email: lance@lancea.actrix.gen.nz
////      ZL2AJH    Wellington, New Zealand
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology