HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: abraham@hydra.unm.edu (Abraham McCollough)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: anger
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:02:34 GMT
Organization: psychohazard

In article <lasld4INN9u7@news.bbn.com> dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:
>In article <65482@cup.portal.com>, Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva) writes:
>> 9209.08 e.v. [The Birthday of my Abyss!]
>> 
>> Most of the books I've found on 'magic(k)' warn against such attacking
>> spells.  Most mages are too afraid to face their own anger.  Many would-be
>> mages are simply programmed by our prophylactic culture into do-nothingism.
 
Hrmph.  Well. That does call to mind the time you refered to me as "an 
elitist prophylactic".  Really, quite the most amusing insult I've ever
endured.
 
But I digress.
>
>What would you suggest doing with anger?  I've tried so hard to be a good
>little smurf^H^H^H^H^Hwiccan, but I do seem to have a hard time dealing with
>some of these darker feelings.  I feel uncomfortable using any of these
>types of spells, but I'm afraid if I personally dismembered and roasted 
>the object of my disaffections the neighbors might look at me funny.
>
>(OK, I'm being a smartass, but it's still a serious question and I hope
>someone answers it.)
>
>Dawn

Aan excellent question, Dawn, and well put.  Anger is quite a natural emotion,
and one to which we are all subject.  What do we do with it when we are armed
with a working knowledge of magick?

Of utmost importance is this: perform no rituals that derive their power from
that anger unless you are quite sure that the result will harm no one.  As
that certainty is very difficult to come by, I recommend prophylaxis.

The greatest part of magicks effecacy comes from the focus one puts on the
raw emotive force.  Merely experiencing anger is not the same as acting upon
it through ritual or otherwise.

As to deling with the emotion itself, I recommend catharsis of one kind or
another.  I, myself, keep a journal which I have used on occasion for such 
issues.  Permitting anger free expression in a controlled, isolated environment
such as the blank page can be quite effective in "grounding out" the emotion
with the least amount of harm.

Or, on extreme occasions, I've bought myself a set of second hand china and 
broken them in my backyard.  No focus, you understand.  Merely expression.

I hope that may be of some use to you.

As always, e-mail is welcome.

Abraham
From: malcolmc@spider.co.uk (Malcolm Campbell)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Empathic question
Date: 7 Sep 92 10:45:45 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK

In article <1992Sep4.164248.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>> A true empath who is 'linked' to someone will feel the feedback from a
>> projection like this, and know what they are doing very quickly.. And
>> the 'attacker' can shield too, which also breaks the 'link'..
>
>Okay, would there be aftereffects? As I understand it, she tried to shield (it
>was the first thing she thought of) but he kept complaining for a short period
>afterwards. And they were both affected for the rest of the night. I don't know
>how effective she might have been in shielding either--it was a serious
>argument, not the type conducive to good concentration.

Well, there are still two possibilities here...

First, the mundane... He was upset by the argument and used this as a means
to prevent the argument continuing.. 

Second, the actual 'attack'... I dont think this has much in the way of
aftereffects.. From my experience, its a pretty temporary thing, although
you may suffer afterwards from emotional consequences of feeling that
someone close to you attacked you...


I dont like the word attack here.. Its more like accidentally stepping on
someones toe because you're being careless during an argument.. The "You did
that on purpose" attitude doesnt help.. and the 'victem' in either case is
often known to play up the 'injury' (consciously or unconsciously) becuase
they are upset..

As I said before, 90% of the time, Eddies suggestion that this sort of
accusuation is unfounded is probably accurate.. Its certainly worth bearing
in mind..  

--- Calum

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Malcolm Campbell                          |   Spider Systems Limited
                                            |   Spider Park, Stanwell Street
- malcolmc@spider.co.uk   +44 31 554 9424   |   Edinburgh, EH6 5NG, Scotland
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: joshua@coombs.anu.edu.au (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: power points in france
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
Date:  7 Sep 92 13:29:43 GMT

Kerwin Yap Chua <kc3u+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>The theory that I have heard is that there is a protective net around
>the earth which has several *dents* in it.  These dents actually reach
>down to (and possibly into) the earth, forming the said power points,
>not all of which are marked (like Stonehenge, the Pyramids, etc.).  The
>net is supposedly made from some form of energy that sensitive people
>can percieve (and manipulate? I have a hard time dealing with all of
>these monuments and the like precisely built upon these points).  my
>information is rather vague, and I'd like to be enlightened along with
>everyone else if someone knows what the dickens I'm talking about.


there are several bodies of knowledge that deal with this kind
of stuff. the chinese 'feng shui' is probably the one that is
the most intact. if anyone knows of this, would they post some?
a number of people have been very impressed witht the chinese
magickal system generally. this includes, of course, iching,
acupuncture, feng shui, alchemy, sex magick etc. there are
many parallells to be drawn between the western systems generally
and chinese systems generally. 

josh
From: Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: power points in general and geomancy
Date: Tue,  8 Sep 92 13:11:05 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <laltskINN20o@aludra.usc.edu> <joshua.715873007@coombs>

9209.08 e.v. [The Birthday of my Abyss!]


Josh and others have posted about this.  I add what little I know.


'Ley lines' are supposedly lines of power which are connected with
each other round the globe.  The term 'ley' is of Celtic origin, I
think, but the idea is quite widespread, regardless of the placement
and the importance of any 'nodes' or 'power points' may be given.

The Chinese feng shui are/were geomancers who can perceive these
subtle 'dragon lines' and help the unwary citizen to navigate the
sometimes dangerous earth-chi' energy-zones.  Many other cultures
feature this practice, which may be translated and understood in many
ways.  There are of course those who exploit the innocent customer to
become rich.

I've heard that the location of these lines of power may change over
time and that some if not many of those which once functioned as
'power points' are now rather devoid of their 'old energy'.  Apparently
it is possible to dilute/shift these nodes through psychic disrespect.
It has been said that Stonehenge suffers from this as it has been turned
into a rather frequented tourist attraction with serious ritual all but
absent.

I think that this 'net' differs subtlely for each and every
person, and that what is a 'power spot' for one is a 'power vacuum' for
someone else.  Alot depends upon the psychic attunement of the individual.

Those with particular preference for elemental or 'geomantic' energies
may find this net somewhat disrupted, given the constant drain which
humans place upon it in their quest for 'progress'.

Some urban shaman see the network of cables, roadways, and satellite-
links to be a modern techno-net which can be used just as effectively
for similar purposes, yet this is quite a different mindset.

'Geomancy' means, quite simply, 'divination by means of earth', or the
equivalent.  This art has become rather developed by Chinese and
'New Age' counselors, who, often for Chinese clients, will give advice
on home purchases, decore, event placement, and travel plans.  It has
become a business comparable to that counseling based on astrological
charts.

The method is the evaluate (intuitively or possibly analytically) the
specific area in question.  Items examined include natural features
(lakes, streams, mountains in the area), human pollution/disruption
(mining, factories, etc.), and the structure of the actual location
(if a building, the number of windows and doors, which direction these
face, the style of yard, etc.).  This is matched with the energies of
the client and advice is given based on the comparison.

It seems the Chinese have really developed this to an art form.  I
haven't heard of it becoming such a business venture for Western
magicians.  Anybody know where the Golden Dawn's system of 'geomancy'
came from?

Thyagi
--------------------------------------------------------
New Age?  The terms and meanings have been changed to maintain profits.
From: rmr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Richard M. Romanowski)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Origins of Pentagram
Summary: read the post
Keywords: polak, polack, crazy-assed Polack
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:33:55 GMT
Organization: UB


	About the only thing I DID learn (besides modern Polish language)
when I fried in Poland this summer was that extremely old excavations in
northern Poland showed the Pentagram and the hexagram (with a central
point inserted in the latter) on seals.  Also shown were various 
swastikas, crosses, etc.  Did it ortiginate in Mesopotamia and get carried
around Europe?  Or is it just a basic diagram that appeals to the human
brain?

	I would guess that very, very similar sigils occur to diverse
races and tribes because we all have human hands and human brains.  We don't
consciously copy each other -- we're just working with the same 
equipment.  

	Barra utuk xul!  Nie mowilem nigdy po angielsku!
Luck
Rick
From: eddie@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Edward M. Averett)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Spirit in the house, and parents won't listen...
Date: 12 Sep 92 18:09:10 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

In article <1992Sep12.072633.8024@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>Funny. The few people who have shown what appears to be a real knowledge of
>magic have never seemed to complain about all sorts of attacking "things"
>that are out to get them.  Maybe they just learned long ago to control such
>unwanted intrusions of their psyche.
>
>:    As for the "spirit" problem... I find that Sweet Basil, sprinkled around the 
Since it has been at least implied that I would lump this problem in with 
psychic empathy attacks, I thought I might add my .02 and set the record a bit 
straighter at the same time.  -) 

Being a person who believes in the external validity of spirits, I have no 
problems believing that this kind of thing happens.  I make no judgements on 
whether it is happening to her or not.  Since she thinks it does, and there
doesn't seem to be a "victim" in this case, as is in the case of one person  
accusing another, I certainly would give her the benefit of the doubt.  

Sweet basil works just fine as a focus instead of burning yellow candles. 
With a number of spirits, shields work just fine too.  I might recommend that
you actually feed the spirit something.  A little honey and brandy (or milk)
in a saucer, placed in a spot where the spirit seems to like to materialize
might eithe satisfy the spirit, or even convert it to an ally.  Since I'm 
not there, this is completely hypothetical which is why I hadn't posted any
suggestions before, especially in light of some of the other helpful posts. 

I don't myself often have trouble with spirits anymore.  As a longterm pact
magician and namer of names, any spirits in my vicinity generally nod and 
say hello, or shut up and leave me alone. This doesn't include the little 
people, the sidhe have always got to be dealt with , and with so many of 
them having slightly mischievious natures, it's generally a lot simply to 
just treat them like small children underfoot or puppies.  Nuking puppies
just isn't generally in my repertoire, and shielding them out of your 
area completely can make them get spiteful sometimes.  There are lots of 
coping methods, and they are occasionally useful.  My celebrated parking luck
is the basis of a generational alliance my father's family has with a couple
of the little people. 

				-edddie@legba.oit.unc.edu


P.S.:  There will be a meeting of The Nine and their attendants and 
representatives at Cousin Aleister's place under the North Pole this 
sunday to discuss the character of alt.magick posts for the coming month. 
As usual, please bring a covered dish of some sort.  Hobbit dining rules 
this month, as it is September.  If you don't know how to get there, then I 
guess you aren't invited. 
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Subject: Re: A little info please...
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 22:54:00 GMT

>>In a bit of an aside, I'd like to summon Yog-Sothoth to sire my grandchild. >
>>Could someone please E-mail me some information on summoning?  How
>>should I go
>>about it and what precautions should I take?   

Isn't this something for you CHILD to decide?

>>Serious replies only.                                                

I am serious!

Besides, if your knowledge is lacking enough that you have to
post for information on the net then I would take that as a
sign that this is something that you are not ready for.
From: jasonp@cunix4.Prime.COM (Jason R. Pascucci)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Somethings wrong... Not quite right....
Date: 11 Sep 92 18:48:26 GMT
Organization: Prime Computer, Inc.

There are many schools of thought on why a willful
magickal act might go 'wrong', many of which are fairly
straightforward and obvious. 

About the most prevelant is that, basically, God works in 
mysterious ways. Doing a spell for more money may not
pay off right now, or this is the darkness before the dawn. 

Another, similar explanation is that it did help...just think
of all the debt you *could* have incured had you not done
your ritual. 

Again, a similar explantion is that you are paying off Karmic
debt, and, basically, you are SOL until it's paid.

Or, that you didn't believe enough. Even if you think you did
you didn't, obviously, since it didn't work. 

A viewpoint taken by perhaps a 'Sorcerer' (I imply no special
connotation, just the same one used by, I believe, BA in his 
Sorcerer treatises) might take is that, yes, I screwed
up the ceromony, I'd better do it again. (Perfection is eternal) 
Actually, equally likely is this Sorcerer to (perhaps) take on
a job to pay off the debt. All things one with this worldview 
might do are magickal: why is saying 'Om Mani Padme Hum' any 
more powerful a mantra than 'Do You Want Fries With That'?

Other issues are more psychological: You thought you would possibly
run into money issues, and decided to do a magickal act to counter
these. The magickal act didn't do anything for you, because you
knew already you would be running into money issues, and there
wasn't anything you could do about it. (Similar to lack of belief)

Personally, I stopped asking for mundanities a while ago, and
never *really* asked for them, I was more interested to see
if I got them then getting them itself. I figure I'll get
what's coming to me..I'm not against a little elbow grease to 
work out problems, or to pay off my Karmic debt, etc, etc...
I tend to save willful works of magick for other, more important
things...my and other's spiritual growth, intercession
to lightened the (Karmic or otherwise) burdens of others,
showing off...etc. :)

Also, as I read over the actual ritual again, I might
state a possibly useful comment about no difference: -1+1=0. 

-- 
Jason R. Pascucci
jasonp@primerd.prime.com

A Student of Zen lay at the deathbed of his Master.
His Master gave him the book of Masters, where apon
the Student promptly threw it into the fire. 
The Master looked up and said "What are you doing!"
The Student looked up and said "What are you saying!"
From: amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Third Order of St. Michael
Date: 6 Sep 92 07:22:24 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.233934.29674@u.washington.edu>, 
grimoire@byron.u.washington.edu (John Greer) writes:
> Does anyone have a current contact address for the Third Order of St.
> Michael, an esoteric Christian group founded (I believe) by fantasy
> author Katherine Kurtz?

Certainly.  The official name of the Order was changed to simply "The Order
of St. Michael" a couple years ago.  I can answer informal questions via 
electronic mail, or you can make formal inquiries to our Prioress, Laura 
McKeown, at the following address:

	The Very Rev. Laura McKeown
	Prioress, Order of St. Michael
	P.O. Box 3047
	Allentown, PA 18106

Be aware that, despite being founded by Katherine Kurtz, and sharing a name 
with the "Michaelines" of her fiction, there is no connection between the 
real life OSM and Katherine's books.  We are an ecumenical esoteric Christian 
religious community, though we do have quite a number of pagan and other non-
Christian members and friends of the Order.


Peace,

Amanda Walker, OSM
-- 
"Never suppose that either the evil or the good that you do will remain
 secret, however strict  may be your enclosure."  --St. Teresa of Avila

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: jittlov@gumby.cs.caltech.edu (Mike Jittlov)
Subject: Re: Brainwashing
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 12:13:28 GMT

Your Article is waiting in sci.psychology

Enjoy ;>

-mjj  "He doesn't need his brain washed!  He changes it every second!!"
From: eddie@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Edward M. Averett)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: shields and so forth
Date: 11 Sep 92 22:06:41 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

In article <1992Sep11.180650.970@u.washington.edu> grimoire@byron.u.washington.edu (John Greer) writes:
[lots of good stuff deleted]

This all sounds just fine, to me anyway.  I would regard the majority of your
posting as being beyond the scope of the excrutiatingly basic and simple initial
posts I made on the subject.  Indeed, your methods are again less wizardry
than magical.

		-eddie@legba.oit.unc.edu
From: malcolmc@spider.co.uk (Malcolm Campbell)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Re: (Was Shielding) Now: Letting shields down.
Date: 13 Sep 92 23:10:46 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK

In article <65681@cup.portal.com> Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva) writes:
>
>This is true only to a point.  If we are besieged, then our 'defenses'
>become our own worst enemy.  When it becomes important to get past
>that 'halo' or that 'minefield' we may find ourselves severely hampered.
>
>Yes, it will keep people out, but it will also keep us IN.  In the case
>of a fire in the citadel or a shortage of food we may need to get out
>very quickly.  Having the map to the minefield may, at that point,
>prove largely irrelevant.

At this point the metaphor breaks down however.. A personal shield is more
like armour, than a wall - it moves with you. I cant see the problem of
being besieged in it. 

I can imagine (If I try hard) a magical assualt of such intensity that I
wouldnt want to come out from behind a shield - there nothing stopping me
physically getting up, phoning a friend to come and help - or going to see
someone - going to a place I find safe in itself.. Whatver..

And unlike a physical barrier, I can just will the defense away and its
gone.. No problem..

--- Calum
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Malcolm Campbell                          |   Spider Systems Limited
                                            |   Spider Park, Stanwell Street
- malcolmc@spider.co.uk   +44 31 554 9424   |   Edinburgh, EH6 5NG, Scotland
From: cal@otter.hpl.hp.com (Colin Low)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 08:59:20 GMT
Subject: Re: Tactile Kinetic (Was RE: Shields)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: alt.magick

>What is needed now is to answer the questions 
>  Where did the results of these studies get published. (a compleate 
>bibligraphic entry would be extreamly useful.)
>  What was the test population made up of?
>  Was it all men or all women, if it was a mixed group what was the
>    percentage of the test population were women and what were men?
>  Was there an ethnic mix (ie non european) included in the test population

Haven't a clue what the answers are. About 20 years ago I had a friend
with the complete Proceedings of the Society for Psychical Research and
I used to browse them randomly and spotted the article in there. For all
I know the results are based on a random sample of male, caucasian, one
legged pole vaulters.

However I have an absurdly mystical faith in Normal distributions, and
saw no reason at the time to doubt the general conclusion that some
people are very good at visualising and some are very poor.

I'm sure this experiment has been done since with a completely random
sample of US college psychology majors.

;-) ;-)

Colin
From: cward@Think.COM (Christopher)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: The pentagram
Date: 14 Sep 1992 17:47:48 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: godot.think.com

|> Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva) writes:
|> : 
|> : This is what I dispute as both fallacious and ignorant.  What if I take
|> : the 'correct' position to be point-down?  Then 'inverted' means point-up,
|> : and so on.  It is an implied fundamentalism where none exists.

I have to point out that this is all too typical of your arguments.  For me,
I accept the majority concensus that point-up is upright, nay correct, position
and, hence, the point-downward is inverted.  I doubt the hundreds of books,
schools and teachers who also agree with me are "both fallacious and ignorant".
I'll admit you love to use some pretty fancy words but it all boils down to
the old grade-school arguement "you're stupid if you think <insert your own
opinion here>".  Sorry, I outgrew that a long time ago.

A few particulars to address: 

|> What if I take the 'correct' position to be point-down?

Then, you're wrong, er in a very, very small minority of opinion.

|> It is an implied fundamentalism where none exists.

The actual origins are shrouded in such mystic obscurity that a 
"fundamentalism" is not applicable here. (see all previous posts, most notibly
on how the "correct" position corresponds to the human form - head up for
most of us).  I'd rank point-up=correct right up there with North being
reffered to as "up", protons are positive, electrons negative.

	
	-Christopher

In fact, I don't really give a sh*t about the subject just tired of everything
having to be subjective and/or politically correct!
From: usr77@pil.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: You REALLY aren't going to like this.
Date: 14 Sep 92 00:23:53 GMT

24/27        [1] Networked  Circle of the Goddess
Title:       Meetings
Date:        Thu Aug 27, 1992 18:15
Origin:      The Pool of Radiance (Pennsylvania) [412-378-2165]
From:        Rogue X #33 @4125 VirtualNET

I am in DESPERATE need of any info on any meetings or something on October 31
in Sewickley, Pa... I need to get in touch with the "leader" or person that's
getting everything together because of a planned extremely violent attack on
them that day... ANY info would be greatly appreciated

                 The Pool of Radiance v3.2  (412) 378-2165
                  Virtual Net #4125    Near Aliquippa, PA

Write Rogue X on this issue, not me, unless you have connections in
Sewickley, PA, in which case contact them... wouldn't it be nice if
the Xtians planning this attack ran into an ambush?

"If we do not hang together, we will most assuredly hang separately"
                                        Benjamin Franklin

Bright Blessings
A.Lizard
I can also be reached at:
  alizard@tweekco.uucp                 boo!tweekco!alizard@PacBell.COM
  [path]!uunet!pacbell!boo!tweekco!alizard
Newsgroups: alt.magick