From: rigg@osnome.che.wisc.edu (Tim Rigg)
Subject: Re: Bowhunting wound rates
Organization: University of Wisconsin-Madison, Chemical Engineering
Date: 7 Oct 92 14:35:19
	<RIGG.92Oct5151040@osnome.che.wisc.edu>
	<1992Oct7.170142.15235@clpd.kodak.com>
In-reply-to: black@che.serum.kodak.com's message of Wed, 7 Oct 1992 17:01:42 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.170142.15235@clpd.kodak.com> black@che.serum.kodak.com (Robert Black (x37236)) writes:

   In article <RIGG.92Oct5151040@osnome.che.wisc.edu> rigg@osnome.che.wisc.edu (Tim Rigg) writes:
   >This is contrary to everything I have seen.  In fact, you can see it
   >for yourself.  Rent a bowhunting video and watch the shots. ...
   >
   >I'd like to add that these videos are extremely graphic - especially
   >Fitzgerald videos.  I can't believe I am recommending them to
   >nonhunters or antihunters.  

   Benke's book is not for everyone either and if any of my AR colleagues
   are offended by parts of this discussion, I apologize.  For me to
   understand the issue, it has become necessary to delve into unpleasant
   areas.

I was going to say that you didn't comment on whether you would rent a
video or not.  I am sure it would provide valuable information.
However, I realized that I have no intention of reading Benke's book.
In the first case, I could not support it by spending money on it and
I don't know where I could borrow a copy.  I also think I have read
enough excerpts to have a feel for the book.  In short, I don't think
his information is accurate.  After all, in one place he cites a 1/10
recovery rate.  In another, he documents a 50% recovery rate.
Basically, I view it like I see most strongly opinionated "studies":
biased.  They provide some insight but the truth lies somewhere
between the propoganda of both sides.

   To get another view on Benke's book, last night I phoned a nationally
   prominent animal protection group.  Their view was that while Benke's
   book was valuable for its informational content, it's a somewhat
   unpleasant book due to discussions about arrowing animals and then
   observing the ensuing deaths, which sometimes extended for days.  And
   they expressed some personal distaste for a man like Benke who could
   actively participate in these activities, even in the name of research.

I am, however, getting more curious by the moment.  Just what type of
setting was he studying that he could follow an animal for days?
especially without affecting the outcome?  In other words, it would be
very hard to track a wounded deer for several days without disturbing
it.  Also, this suggests that he was able to locate and view the deer
for several days.  A hunter, as opposed to a researcher, would have
killed the animal at the first encounter.

   >However, they do make one point quite
   >clear: quick human kills are quite possible with archery equipment. 

   I don't doubt this at all - if the heart or a major artery is hit.  But
   on most animals, these areas comprise 25-30% of the the body.  What I am
   questioning is how often the other 70-75% of the body is hit, since I
   have reason to believe that terrible suffering and agony occurs in these
   cases. 

There is no doubt that some arrow-hit deer die horrible deaths.  My
contention is that such cases are a minority and can be further
reduced without effecting responsible hunters.

   >I'd also like to add that even I am disgusted by the lack of respect
   >for the animal shown in some of the poorer videos.  Dan Fitzgerald is
   >one the worst in this regard.  He shoots a powerful bow and his shots
   >are well-placed so the animals go down quickly.  However, he is quite
   >disgusting after the shot.

   This makes me wonder if Fitzgerald is sometimes confused with Ted Nugent,
   since similar accusations have been levied against Nugent.  In the
   current issue of Bowhunter, Nugent denies these types of accusations
   when directed toward him.

I am sure they are not confused.  I have only heard one criticism of
Fitzgerald and that was in rec.hunting.  I have heard several folks
mention Ted Nugent.  However, I am a big Nugent fan and I always ask
for details.  No one has ever had any.  I would love to rent a few
Nugent videos to see first hand (and probably learn a bit about
bowhunting).  However, I have never been able to locate any of his
video.  I have read some of his writings on the subject and he was
quite well-versed and persuasive.

tim
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals