HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tooka@train.EBay.Sun.COM (Tony Ooka)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Rising Sun: Yelling "Fire!" in Crowded Theater?
Date: 27 Aug 1992 18:28:32 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: tooka@train.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: train.ebay.sun.com


>For a book so heavy on moral issues, "Rising Sun" raises one of its own.
>Do you think that Crichton, who lives here, wondered if his book just might
>encourage the kind of violence and hatred that has been occasionally directed 
>toward the Japanese for nearly a century?  Do you think he discussed this
>prospect with his editors?

Again we are back to that same old bugger: Moral Responsibility vs. Freedom of Speech

I am all for free expression and free speech. But when I know or suspect that
what I say may be too socially volatile or controversial for certain members 
of society to interpret or deal with reasonably--then I hold it back.

Remember the old Oliver Wendell Holmes principle: Free Speech does not apply to
those yelling "Fire!" in a crowded movie house?

Given the state of US-Japan economic tensions, I consider Crichton's movie
a borderline case of yelling "Fire!" in a crowded movie house. (Anyone is welcome
to challenge me on this.) I know that if I were the author of a book which already
stirs too many passions in an already divided racial/political climate I would
NOT--despite all my desire to be heard and believed--allow it to become a movie
for all the ignorant to come watch, misinterpret, and get physically riled up about.

At least controversial Japan-bashing books have to be read and their content closely analyzed to have any emotional effect on the attitude of the readers--who, one would hope would be critical enough to distinguish fact from fiction.

A Japan-Bashing Movie on the other hand could have a more instantaneous impact--
which I don't want to think about.

Movies are accessible for a larger audience--many of which are
less critical, many of which could be younger and more impressionable, many of
which cannot distinguish the images they are seeing from the truth. Many of
these movie-goers may walk away passively believing--"Yes, it is plot. Those damned
Japs probably do think like that and are out to get us! Pearl Harbor all over again!
Why I'd like to take one of them and..!"

Did Michael Crichton think what could happen if an unemployed auto worker--who may have
lost his house or family--saw this movie with some buddies, got emotional, went out
and got drunk and happened to see an Asian American on the street?

I know Michael Crichton and the producers of the movie "Rising Sun" cannot be
held responsible for what misguided movie-goers do, but they're intelligent,
they know the power of their ideas and I wish they had a conscience.

Yes. I'm all for free speech. 

But please: "Free Speech exercised with a Purpose and a Social Conscience."

-Tony
From: mulvihil@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Lawrence Mulvihill)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Please educate this man
Date: 3 Sep 92 13:46:16 GMT
Reply-To: mulvihil@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Lawrence Mulvihill)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

If Judy Mann had called me, I would have suggested that
multiculturalism is explicitly wrong, because it denies
the superiority of Western values as a way of life for
humans (in effect, setting up situational
ethics relativism for cultures).

-- Newt Gingrich
   Republican Whip
   U.S. Representative (R-Ga.)

   From a letter to the Washington Post Sept 2, 1992
From: kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Caucasians don't understand
Date: 29 Aug 92 19:29:07 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, Rice University

In article <1992Aug18.145155.1293@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>IF you are discriminated against in this country,

The shouting of "if" implies you don't believe that Asian are actually
discriminated against in this country.

>you have recourse to legal
>action to try to correct what you feel to be an injustice. This is NOT true
>most other places, as you no doubt know from your travels. Perfect? No. But
>it IS better than nothing. 

Yes, it *is* better than *nothing*.  Let's say you met Vincent Chin on the
street just before he died.  Would you say to him, "What are you complaining
about?  You're still alive, aren't you?  Just get up and take legal recourse
against them.  You couldn't do that in China.  You should realize how good
you have it here."
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 26 Aug 92 09:39:39 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

Before anyone takes me to task about my statement of not being a
minority in a global sense.  Yeah I know it's not mathematically
accurate, but I hope you see the point I was trying to get across.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go)
Subject: Re: Hoyt Sze's "Parting Shot"
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, Rice University
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 19:11:51 GMT

In article <2A93F988.16837@orion.oac.uci.edu> jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu (John R. Dooley) writes:
>In article <16sf67INNcrs@agate.berkeley.edu> judyy@ocf.berkeley.edu (Judy Y. Tseng) writes:
>>	Accomodation is a synonym for murder; 
>
>   Here we have a person whose stayed in a few too many cheap motels.

Maybe she was in a motel that collapsed when an earthquake hit.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go)
Subject: Re:  Eye/Hair Color
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, Rice University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 00:47:50 GMT

In article <1992Aug5.201513.20143@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>
>Sigh, and something so superficial as longer and shorter
>proteins can cause so much strife.
>
>I must have extremely long proteins in my hair and eyes!
>Is it okay for me to date people with short proteins???

Probably not.  Wouldn't your husband mind?  Or does he have short proteins?
:-)


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: Degrees of racism (was Re: Whites don't understand)
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 12:11:03 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.155322.1873@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>In article <1992Aug25.205505.12037@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug25.014819.8290@oakhill.sps.mot.com> jpak@manute.sps.mot.com (Kinder and Gentler Jim) writes:
>>>In article <1992Aug24.202037.6176@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>>>In article <1992Aug18.225505.28047@oakhill.sps.mot.com> jpak@manute.sps.mot.com (Kinder and Gentler Jim) writes:
>>>>>notice.  And it's something I'll definitely consider if I ever have kids
>>>>>someday and I want to know where to raise them.
>>>>
>>>>Unless you're in a war zone, "how" is more important than "where".
>>
>>  Look, don't tell Jim how to raise his kids or where.  Don't define
>>  what a war zone is for him either.  He knows one when he sees one.
>>  Since when are you an expert on raising Asian American kids?
>
>You seemed quite upset with Mr Pak's post; as this is the only place you 
>address mine, I'll answer it. I HAVE Asian-American kids. Two of 'em, in fact.

  Doesn't make you an expert on how Mr. Pak should raise his kids.
  And I'm not upset with Mr. Pak, au contraire.
>
>Mike
>-- 
>Disclaimer - I'm only doing what the little voices tell me to do. 


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: sgan@hounix.org (Seng Gan)
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Organization: Houston UNIX Users Group (HOUNIX), Houston, TX
Distribution:  na
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 03:27:29 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.050450.18705@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>In article <SHAW.92Aug26002432@whopper.lcs.mit.edu> shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu
B
>(Andy Shaw) writes:
>>...
>>But those are the facts, and you and I (and Arthur Hu and Dwight Joe and
>>Judy Tseng, etc.) are bound together by forces that we do not necessarily
>>like or want.  Frankly, I don't like the fact that you and I face an equal
>>chance of: being beaten to death because of our skin color, being denied a
>>job or promotion due to preconceptions of "lack of leadership potential"
>>(i.e. not being white), being denied political representation because of an
>>utter lack of organization, being denied entry to certain colleges because
>>of "over-representation", etc., etc., etc.
>>...
>
>Frankly, I don't know why the hell my name even appears in this.  I've
>never met Mr. Hu, Ms. Tseng, Mr. Sieh, nor Mr. Shaw.  I have no idea
>what their skin color is, and they have no idea what my skin color is
>either.
>
>But when I do look in the mirror, I suppose that I do see my skin color.
>I say, "Gee.  I'm an American."
>
>Afterwards, depending on how cold my room is, I'll grab one or two
>flags of China and ignite them to help start a fire in my fire place.
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
>Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
>                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
>Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, I am a Chinese-cu.  I am savage, babarian, and etc.....
Now, proved to me why you are better human being than I am.
Or else shut up.
Seng C. Gan
Shut up or put up.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.asean,soc.culture.korean
From: detle@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (TAM LE)
Subject: Re: Racial Beating 
Organization: Halls of Residence, Monash University 
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 16:17:00 GMT

In article <BtI0K1.KF5@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> lchsu@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Leon Hsu) writes:
>From: lchsu@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Leon Hsu)
>Subject: Re: Racial Beating 
>Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 17:28:49 GMT

>In article <detle.6.714579827@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au> detle@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (TAM LE) writes:
>>What i am pushing at 
>>here is a new attitude that is "fight fire with fire " or " an eye for an 
>>eye ".

>This is hardly a new attitude. Try reading some of the old testament some
>time. You know, the standard interpretation of "an eye for an eye" is that
>if someone takes out your eye, you should take out his. This is then
>extrapolated to bigger things and gets a little dangerous. I think it was
>Martin Luther King Jr. who said that "the old law of an eye for an eye
>leaves everybody blind."

>>       What am  driving at in this posting is that all of you who have not 
>>taken the nesscary precaution to protect yourself then do so ....
>>               "DO NOT BECOME ANOTHER STATISTIC"
>>If they want trouble then give them the trouble they ask for ...time to stop 
>>bowing our head!!!! If it requires then Kill them ......
>>               "BETTER THEM THEN YOU "

>That's right, go down to your local gunstore and pick up that AK-47 and
>go shoot up some rednecks before they shoot you up. Hell, what your
>country needs is some good wholesome anarchy. Watch out! your neighbour
>might me a closet redneck. Better kill him before he gets ya.

>Geez ... that's no way to solve things. Think ... use your head and think.

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Violence as a way of achieving racial justice is both impractical and immoral.
>It is impractical because it is a descending spiral ending in destruction for
>all.  The old law of an eye for an eye leaves everybody blind.  It is immoral
>because it seeks to humiliate the opponent rather than win his understanding;
>it seeks to annihilate rather than convert.  Violence is immoral because it
>thrives on hatred rather than love.  It destoys community and makes
>brotherhood impossible.  It leaves society in monologue rather than dialogue.
>It creates bitterness in the survivors and brutality in the destroyers.

>                -Martin Luther King, Jr.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>-leon, still the peacenik.

Leon 
	I agree with you 100% ....I said <<<<"IF">>>> this  does not mean go 
down to your local gun store and buy and AK-47 and go home and wipe out very 
red neck you see on your way home. Absolutely not .........but I said 
protect yourself !!!! ie: defend your basics rights if threaten !!! 
and I will say again :
		"DO NOT BECOME ANOTHER STATISTICS"

Tam 
Peace man !!!
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 2 Sep 92 12:36:38 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology

In article <78903@ut-emx.uucp> joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.122123.19413@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>
>I am Chinese, but I'm also an American, with American citizenship,
>which means I can vote.  I can even run for President because I'm
>a natural born citizen.

  Good that makes you an American.
>
>>  Glad you enjoy your visit to our country.  We do kind of like it
>>  here too.
>
>I keep suspecting you are trying to make some sort of point, but I
>can't quite piece together what it is.  

  My point is that as long as you let people think that you're not
  a full-fledged American, they won't think you have a vested interest
  in this country.  They'll think you always can run off when times
  get bad.  For a long time, people made me feel like a "visitor",
  not a true American.  They used to tell me to go back where I
  came from.  Of course I came from Minnesota, but they didn't know
  that.  I kept a low profile and deferred to the "authorities",
  making me a goody-goody type.  My parents were P.R.s and always
  drummed into us that they could get deported for anything.  They
  were so afraid of parking tickets and always drove very carefully.
  Under such conditions I would not likely speak out politically
  about anything!  It wasn't until I realized that I was just as
  American as the next person and that they couldn't deport me
  that I began to see that speaking out is sometimes necessary.
>
>If you are implying that maintaining an attachment with Asia makes it
>easier for the "establishment" to say "go back to where you came
>from," then perhaps you are right.  I think it does make it a little
>easier for them to say this.  But when it comes to forming an
>identity, I basically don't care what the "establishment" thinks.
>It's something called self-respect.
>
>>  Looks like you're Asian American whether you like it or not.
>
>And??????  Because I'm an American citizen with Asian ancestry, does
>it mean I have to agree with other American citizens with Asian
>ancestry?
>
>
  Since when do all Asian Americans agree with each other?  Ha!
>
  If you consider yourself Asian American and speak up then you're
  adding another voice to the community.  Even if you don't agree
  with most of them, you're still a voice.  However if you "hide" behind,
  "Oh guys, I'm not AA, I'm Chinese."  Then you've voluntarily
  removed yourself from the AA community and thus are not contributing
  to the diversity of the community.  Then you wonder why there is
  an "AA community" that "all thinks the same".
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson)
Subject: Re: Degrees of racism (was Re: Caucasians don't understand)
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 00:19:15 GMT

In article <23604@alice.att.com> jj@alice.UUCP (jj,  curmudgeon and clueless old white boy) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.013949.3885@news.acns.nwu.edu> dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson) writes:
>>Whites are evil ??? I've never said that.... To borrow a phrase commonly
>No, you've implied it.  You've said that there is never, ever,
>any point in trying to cultivate whites, that it will always
>and forever turn out to cause you more trouble.  That's implying
>outright that whites are both evil and sub-human.  That's

I am just stating FACTS !!! If the facts make you think that I am saying
whites are evil then that's your problem. I will never say that because
I don't beleive that.

>pretty straightforward.
>
>>I don't think so.... Tell me ...when was the last time you were the only
>>white person at a dance club or a course ??
>You have a short memory.
>
Maybe you can refresh it for me.

>>You got that right. The problem is that we aren't going to take abuse by
>>whites just so that we can be accepted by you...PERIOD.
>
>Pardon me?  How's asked you to take abuse?  I've asked you not to abuse
>me.  That's different.  Every time you say "whites this, whites
>that", you abuse me.  RACISM HAPPENS BETWEEN INDIVIDUALS REGARDLESS
>OF THE FACT THAT THE SOCIETY MAY ENCOURAGE IT. CHANGE THE INDIVIDUALS,
>AND YOU GET RID OF THE PROBLEM.  Reflect to the INDIVIDUAL what
>that individual does, and you'll make progresss.  Tarring me,
>and "all whites" for what some individual has done, will ONLY
>CAUSE MORE HATRED.  THERE CAN BE NO OTHER OUTCOME.  Until you
>stop doing that, I'm going to assume that's what you want.
>-- 
If the TRUTH hurts then let it be so. Racism is not only on an individual
basis. When I walk into a classroom the white students aren't thinking
that I am just as qualified as they are. Instead they are thinking that
I am taking the space of a more qualified white person becuase of
affirmative action. When I was stopped by the cops in LA, they stopped
me and my friends becuase we were blacks in a white area after dark.
The point is that no one looked at me as an individual but I represented
whatever they thought about Afams.
     In regards to "tarring" you.....and "all" whites that is not the point.
I am just telling it how it is. I know that "ALL" whites aren't racists but
I would appreciate whites realizing that not "ALL" blacks are thieves, 
gang members, intellectually inferior nor great athelets.
 
> Bush    *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
>   vs       *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
> Clinton  --    *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
> Just Say !NO!       *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: sieh@panix.com (Twinkie Chinkie)
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Summary: Do we want a color-blind society?
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 06:20:26 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <78805@ut-emx.uucp> joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:
>In article <1992Aug31.130508.3353@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) 
>writes:
>>  For starters, Joe, even if you become accepted as White, can you guarantee
>>  that your brothers and sisters and uncles and aunts and children
>>  will receive the same treatment as you will?  I sort of doubt it.
>
>Why not?  All it takes is a society that looks beyond the color of
>one's skin, and one that regards Asian, African, or Hispanic as no
>more relevant than Irish, Polish, or German.  Does that sound so
>impossible?

People may not even have the same goal in this respect.  Not everyone agrees
that society should be color/race-blind.  I would guess that agreement on
this fundamental question will help one understand each other's perspectives.
In the 60s, the answer to this question was yes but that changed during the
70s and 80s.  As for the 90s?  Hard to say but count one statistic to try 
and have a color/race-blind society.

>But I've been accused several times by AA activist of not respecting
>myself and of not being proud of who I am.  As a result, I have found
>myself defending my identity against AA activists more often than
>defending against "the establishment."
>
>Strange isn't it????????

Quite ironic.  Not unlike my experiences with many other non net Asian American
activists as well as net ones.  I think at some level the issue of respect for
differing opinions comes to play.  There are quite a few who don't respect this
kind of "talk".  The explicit question that's been circulating alot here lately
has been, "What the hell is _wrong_ with you?!  Don't you get it?".  Are these
questions not insulting?

>>  I ask this of not just Joe Wang, but a lot of other Asian Americans 
>>  who think that they can give up who they are and become someone they're not.
>
>Wo shi mei-guo chu sheng de zhong guo ren.
>Ni ne?

"I am an American born Chinese".  I think that Joe Wang knows who Joe
Wang is.

>"How about you?"






-- 
//Lui Sieh
Dum loquimur, fugerit invida Aetas: carpe diem, quam minimum postero.  
Horace, Odes, I.xi.7;	<-- "Why post to USENET?" -Brian O.  Indeed.
What about my opinions?   ====>>   /dev/null     or    sieh@panix.com 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: david@gdstech.grumman.com (David Nettles)
Subject: Re: Electronic Matchmaker
Reply-To: david@gdstech.UUCP (David Nettles)
Organization: Grumman Data Systems-Woodbury
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 12:35:53 GMT

In article <64544@cup.portal.com> Eric_S_Klien@cup.portal.com writes:
>Asian American women, having a problem finding an Asian American man?  
>I am about to launch a free electronic matching service on Usenet.  
>Thanks to the imbalance of men to women on Usenet, more guys than 
>gals have expressed an interest so far.  If you would like to see the 
>fifth draft of my questionnaire so we can alter it to also fit 
>women's needs as well as men's, either send me mail or look at the 
>copy I posted in alt.personals.  
> 
>This service is serious and I already have 337 men and 191 women
>signed up so far.  The site of the service has already been selected
>and programming is nearly completed.
> 
>I should point out that this questionnaire really, really, really,
>needs some more input on CULTURES.  I need some questions to make
>sure that matches are compatible culturally.
> 
>                                                          Eric Klien


Folks, I saw this exact same message in soc.culture.african.american
execept that the author replaced the word "Asian" with "African".
This twit didn't even change bother to change the numbers ("337 men
and 191 women").

I would just suggest ignoring this one.

And by the way if anyone out there is truely interested in signing up
for one of these things, maybe someone here in this group could just
correspond via email with someone the like on the net.  On the net you
can get an idea of what someone's
culture/beliefs/styles/likes/dislikes are like.  When you see someone
you like, send them an email.


	Love the one your with.


David		-	Love
Edward		-	Protection
Nettles		-	Tenacity

-- 
****************************************************************************
   David E. Nettles
   Internet: david@gdstech.grumman.com
   Grumman Data Systems
From: shaw@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Please educate this man
Date: 4 Sep 92 02:13:20 GMT
Organization: MIT Lab for Computer Science, Cambridge, Mass.

In article <24540@oasys.dt.navy.mil> mulvihil@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Lawrence Mulvihill) writes:
   If Judy Mann had called me, I would have suggested that
   multiculturalism is explicitly wrong, because it denies
   the superiority of Western values as a way of life for
   humans (in effect, setting up situational
   ethics relativism for cultures).

   -- Newt Gingrich
      Republican Whip
      U.S. Representative (R-Ga.)

      From a letter to the Washington Post Sept 2, 1992

And just in case there was anyone out there who doubted my statements about
trying to make legitimate _my_ experience, and that of my mother as part of
American culture ...

-Andy