HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: echristo@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Elena A Christofides)
Subject: Re: The Turkish Cypriot cemetery is dilapidated.
Keywords: Greek cypriot refuting these charges.
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:51:02 GMT

This is a whole load of BULLSHIT!
I'm a Greek-Cypriot and I just got back from being in Cyprus for the entire 
summer. I was also just there over last Christmas too.
I'd just like to say a few things.
 First off, the Greek-Cypriot government has been systematicly restoring the 
Turkish mosques that exist on the sothern part of the island. A point in case 
is one of the most sacred mosques to the muslims is the one where Mohammed's 
aunt is buried. This mosque is just outside of the airport and is attended by 
security. You can visit it as it is still in good repair.
Secondly, This is more than I can say for some of the churches on the other 
side. Some relatives of mine that live in the occupied zone were let out for a 
visit last summer (they're let out only for a few days every few years or so.) 
They said that most of the churches lie in ruins.
Thirdly, Leda and the Swan WAS NEVER IN THE KOUKLIA MUSEUM AND HAS NOT BEEN 
STOLEN. Leda and the Swan permantly resides in the NICOSIA museum. And as of 
August 5th, it was still on loan to tour with some other art pieces.
Fourth, the Turks are notorious for stealing mosaics from the churches in the 
NORTH. A lot of these were recently recovered (from the black market from 
Turkish fiends!) and restored. They now currently reside in the Byzantine 
museum in Nicosia at the Archbishop's place.

If ANYONE DARES to persist with bullshit about Cyprus -you just wait and SEE 
how bad I'm going to FLAME YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gadishi Sas - pezavenghis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Elena Christofides   Greek-Cypriot and DAMN PROUD TOO!!!!!!!!
From: spebcg@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr B G Cetiner 92)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Ata-Turk - Trator or Ok dude?
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:38:03 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College at Cardiff
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

| Reading an Ottoman text is not the matter of discussion, If I had studied
| I would have read it w/o any problem. My point in here was that
| every even average muslim should be able to read Koran which is same 
| script that was used during ottoman era, so we could assume that 
| literacy rate must be strikingly high. 

-The old people that I know who can "read the Qu'ran" can look at the 
-the script and recite it in Arabic.  IMHO there's got to be more
-to reading than that as those people can't understand Arabic.
-As for your assumption, I'd bet you're wrong.  I'd expect the 
-literacy rate to be low, and the functional illiteracy rate to be
-strikingly high.  I've also heard that the Arabic script is unsuitable
-for writing Turkish, but I'd leave that to more knowledgable people 
-to discuss (Mark maybe?).

Come on. Do you know how to read Ottoman script? Here, the question is
not to be able to read and understand Arabic language. Ottoman script
is very similar to Arabic script. If you know how to read in Arabic
script, you can learn to read Ottoman texts in JUST one or two days.

Somebody says he has heard that Turkish words couldnot be expressed
in Ottoman script. THIS IS NONSENSE! Ottoman used this script
hundred of years. Did they speak all Arabic? There are all letters
in Ottoman script which are not originally in Arabic script. 
The Turkish letters, (C,J,O,P,U with dots) were all in  Ottoman script.

We all know that Latin alphabet is just one of the Westernization 
policies, as Tevfik Fikret told "there is no second civilization;
civilization means European civilization, and it must be imported
with both its ROSES and THORNS".

Yes, with its Roses and Thorns; AIDS, adolescence, of course,
Inflation, and every dirts. In the name of WHAT.......?


Come on guys, hadi AT'a binip AT'taya gidin hep beraber.


|   F.R.

|B.M.

Regards
BGC
From: hhrant@ocf.berkeley.edu (Helgge Minassian)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Turkey In Full Support Of Armenian Government
Date: 16 Nov 1992 06:39:43 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: monsoon.berkeley.edu


>>David Davidian dbd@urartu.sdpa.org "It has been ever thus in all things, son, 
>>SDPA Center for Regional Studies    Whatever we thrash we give to the wind, 
>>P.O. Box 382761                     We too have been blown by the world's wind
>>Cambridge, MA 02238                 The chaff is gone but the grain remains." 

>Seeing your message in SCT after a long time, made me
>think that Davidian probably was belong to the Raffi
>Hovanazian's (sp?) party who has recently got the boot from 
>the Armenian Republic by the president Ter-Petrosian.
>Hovanazian's (sp?) party who has recently got the boot from 
>This message somehow substantiate what I was thinking.
>Since you had jumped to conclusion about Mutlu being a Turkish
>goverment agent when you heard the Armenian File on Turkish 
>Voice at the same time Mutlu was posting the same file in
>SCT, my theory should have the same credibility 8-).  Would you 
>care to elaborate what happened, why you guys have made the president
>so mad like that.

>Cengiz Akgun

   We appreciate Akgun's endorsement and full support of the
   Armenian Government and President.  At a time when Armenian
   Unity is stronger than ever, it is heart-warming to see that
   Armenia's neighbors are behind Armenia and its quest to
   move forward as a democratic and economically self-sufficient
   state.

   Iktenlikle Sizin

   -Helgge
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: An Armenian recipe with Kurds for "igc.terror".
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 23:08:14 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1475300385@igc.apc.org> Lynn Gazis-Sax <lgsax@igc.apc.org> writes:

>Any suggestions?  I once saw an Armenian recipe with Kurds.

Was it "greeky" enough?

Source: Hassan Arfa, "The Kurds," (London, 1968), pp. 25-26.

 "When the Russian armies invaded Turkey after the Sarikamish disaster 
  of 1914, their columns were preceded by battalions of irregular 
  Armenian volunteers, both from the Caucasus and from Turkey. One of 
  these was commanded by a certain Andranik, a blood-thirsty adventurer.
  These Armenian volunteers committed all kinds of excesses, more
  than six hundred thousand Kurds being killed between 1915 and 1916 in 
  the eastern vilayets of Turkey."


Source: "U.S. Library of Congress:" 'Bristol Papers' - General Correspondence
Container #34.

 "While the Dashnaks were in power they did everything in the world to keep the
  pot boiling by attacking Kurds, Turks and Tartars; by committing outrages
  against the Moslems; by massacring the Moslems; and robbing and destroying
  their homes;....During the last two years the Armenians in Russian Caucasus
  have shown no ability to govern themselves and especially no ability to 
  govern or handle other races under their power."

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
From: hhrant@ocf.berkeley.edu (Helgge Minassian)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Traps
Date: 17 Nov 1992 23:27:40 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: monsoon.berkeley.edu

   If no one objects, traps will be set up to find all
   the Mutlus on this net.  The more Multu posts, the
   more information we will have on the e-mail sources.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: guncer@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Otomatik Portakal )
Subject: Re: life
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 13:41:34 GMT



In article <28442@castle.ed.ac.uk>, emev02@castle.ed.ac.uk (H Oral) writes:
> In article <1992Nov19.111251.18689@ennews.eas.asu.edu> guncer@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Otomatik Portakal ) writes:
> 
> >
> >Anlasilan bu gece beyfendinin tatli cani satasmak istemis. Eee, "Islamiyet
> >ugruna yalan soylemek mubahtir", haydi bakalim diger cyborglar, biraderinizin
> >imdadina yetisin, yalanini ortun su mucahidin. 
> >
> >Yazmadiklarimdan dolayi "suclanacagim" ve beyfendiler hala "bilimsel cevap"
> >isteyecekler. Kustahlik ruhlariniza islemis. Nerede su "Islamin yuce ahlaki",
> >haa pardon, yalancilik, sahtekarlik Islamiyete uygundu di mi, eger "Islamiyet"
> >savunulacaksa. 
> >
> >Selim Guncer
> 
> Islam oldugunu soyleyen bazi sapiklar yukaridakileri uydurdugunda
> herhalde cahilliklerindendi.  Bu konuda -savas esnasinda dusmana
> uygulanacak hile ve olum tehdidi altinda Yaradani inkar etme disinda
> yalan ve hileye cevaz veren- deliliniz nedir?

En buyuk delilim sizlersiniz. Cihad, cihad diye icinden ciktiginiz
toplumun degerlerini yikmaya kalkisiyorsunuz, insanlara dusmanlik
asiliyorsunuz ve bu yolda her turlu ahlaksizlik, yalan dolan sahtekarligi
mubah goruyorsunuz.
 
> Eger Kur'an ve sahih hadislerden bir delil getiremiyorsaniz lutfen
> bu gibi tahkir edici suclamalarda bulunmayin.  "Yalancinin mumu
> yatsiya kadar yanar" diyen Musluman Turk toplumuna bu gibi
> haksiz suclamalari herhalde reva gormuyorsunuzdur. 
> 
> Ustune ustluk firsattan istifade ederek Islama ve Muslumanlara karsi  
> kullandiginiz agir dil de sizin kayagillerden oldugunuzu gosteriyor.

Muslumanlara karsi degilim. Seriatci sersemlere karsiyim, beyinleri
yikanmis ahlaksiz sapiklara karsiyim.

Senin "Musluman Turk" toplumu diye sahiplenmeye calistigin ulus ezici
bir cogunlukla seriat ilkelligini reddediyor. Tarihin coplugunden
hortlatilmaya calisilan bu zirvaligi "gormemek" icin ya bu isten cikar
sagliyorsunuz, veya beyinlerinizi yikayan seriatci bir cetenin esirisiniz.

> Yoksa yaniliyor muyum?  Bu arada adi Kaya olup ayni duyguyu
> paylasmayan KARDESlerin gunahini almamak icin kendim dahil diger
> kardeslere bu tanimlamayi bundan sonra kullanmamayi tavsiye ederim.  Cahil,
> kafir, vs. Islami literaturde mevcut, bunlarla telafi etsek yeterlidir
> herhalde.
> 
> Dogrular Hak'ka yanlislar bana aittir.
> 
> Hamid

Selim Guncer
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:11937 talk.politics.mideast:22413 soc.culture.greek:10825 soc.culture.europe:9753 soc.history:9658 soc.rights.human:4286
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.rights.human
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: "The Massacre of Turkish Cypriots in Paphos and Famagusta".
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 12:58:10 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1992Nov22.000136.24543@zooid.guild.org> chrysp@zooid.guild.org (Chrys Pelegris) writes:

>As the self-declared Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus celebrates its
>9th birthday today, Cyprus remains more firmly divided than at any time since
>1974 when a mainland Turkish invasion split the island along ethnic lines.

Again, first of all, it was not an 'illegal invasion' but a 'legal 
intervention,' specified as an obligation in the Article IV of the 
Treaty of Guarantees signed between Turkiye, Greece and Britain. 

Article IV of the 1960 Tripartite Treaty of Guarantee among Great 
Britain, Turkiye, and Greece gave Turkiye the right to intervene if 
the 1960 agreement was violated. When Greece invaded the island on 
July 15, 1974, and then tried to annex it, the Turkish government 
acted to establish an area in northern Cyprus where Turkish Cypriots 
could live free of fear.

The August 30, 1974, "Die Zeit" German newspaper report of "the 
Massacre of Turkish Cypriots in Paphos and Famagusta," proves how 
justified the Turks were in undertaking their intervention.

The Cyprus issue is essentially a matter between the Turkish 
Cypriots and the Greek Cypriots, and should be settled along 
the guidelines set by Resolution 649 by direct negotiation between 
the leaders of the two peoples. Any attempt to involve third parties, 
directly or indirectly, will frustrate the negotiations.

In 1974, on the Island of Cyprus, Turks prevented Rightist Greek 
revolutionaries from toppling the Cypriot Makarios government. This 
involvement brought down the Rightest general's junta on the mainland
and allowed Greece to return to democracy.

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:11733 talk.politics.mideast:22263 talk.politics.soviet:8984 soc.culture.greek:10673 soc.culture.europe:9627 soc.history:9540 soc.culture.soviet:10064
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: But more than that "minassian"...
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 19:45:09 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1ebv5cINNqb8@agate.berkeley.edu> hhrant@ocf.berkeley.edu (Helgge Minassian) writes:

 >  If no one objects, traps will be set up to find all
 >  the Mutlus on this net.  The more Multu posts, the
 >  more information we will have on the e-mail sources.

From this time forward, you may ignore your gutters and downspouts.
All reliable Ottoman historians describe how Armenians ruthlessly
exterminated 2.5 million Muslim women, children and elderly people of 
Eastern Anatolia and how they collaborated with the enemies of the 
Ottoman Empire between 1914-1920.

It is unfortunately a truth that Armenians are known as collaborators
of the Nazis during World War II and that, even today, criminal
members of the ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism Triangle preach and instigate
racism, hatred, violence and terrorism among peoples. 

Colonel Semen M. Budienny, a subsequent Soviet military fame,
said about the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million defenseless
Turkish and Kurdish women, children and elderly people during
his visit to Anatolia in June 1919 that

"the Armenians had become troublemakers, their Hinchakist
 and Dashnakist parties were opportunist, serving as lackeys
 of whatever power happened to be ascendent."

In September 16, 1920, Major General W. Thwaites, Director of
Military Intelligence, wrote to Lord Hardinge, Under-Secretary
of State for Foreign Affairs:

"...it is useless to pretend that the Armenians are satisfactory
 allies, or deserving of all the sympathy to which they claim."[1]

[1] F.O. 331/3411/158288.

In the Special Collection at Stanford Hoover Library, donated by
Georgia Cutler, the letter dated Nov. 1, 1943 states that

"Prescot Hall wrote a large volume to prove that Armenians were
 not and never could be desirable citizens, that they would 
 always be unscrupulous merchants."

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:11883 talk.politics.mideast:22374 talk.politics.soviet:9067 soc.culture.greek:10794 soc.culture.europe:9728 soc.rights.human:4267
From: ckose@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Azerbaycan
Date: 19 Nov 92 18:47:32 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

Salam, menim aziz hemvetenlerim!Menim adim Elindir.Du$unuremki indiki veziyette
bizim vetemize k0mek coh vacibdir.Istiyardimki biz burda bir te$kilat
yaradak,0z teze  musteqil demokratik cumhuriyetimize yardim edek.Azerilarin
arasinda bunun ile marahlanan varsa,hayi$ edirem menimnen ellaqe sahlayin.
Menim unvanim:
ELIN SULEYMANOV
27O6 KENDALE #2O3
TOLEDO OH.436O6.
P.S. "Turan" aqentliyine 0z minattarliqimi bildirmek istiirem.
Organization: Doctoral student, Chemistry, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 13:01:48 -0500 
From: Mustafa Unlu <mustafa+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ata-Turk - Trator or Ok dude?
	<By6AMI.84v@acsu.buffalo.edu>

mot@acsu.buffalo.edu (mustafa o tanrikulu) writes:
> 
> So I vote YES for Fuadi Rasyid to become the new khalife or even a Mehdi.
> 

I second that! He has all the necessary qualifications. He knows what
illness ails our poor country and would punish all the wrongdoers
against God's will (as interpreted by himself I guess) in the way they
deserve.

I also vote for Fuadi to become the new caliph!

The first question to the caliph candidate: What do you think of the
Ayetullah?

Was the Ayetullah a British spy, like that traitor Mustafa "Camgoz"
Kemal?


M.
From: spebcg@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr B G Cetiner 92)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Ata-Turk - Trator or Ok dude?
Date: 22 Nov 92 16:19:55 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College at Cardiff
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

In article <1992Nov21.173811.4534@jack.sns.com> trh@jack.sns.com (Al Trh) writes:
|In article <1992Nov20.125838.23576@comp.lancs.ac.uk> ega029@comp.lancs.ac.uk (Lami Kaya) writes:
|>
|>
|>Muslim girls are banned to enter schools with their scarfs? The security
|>forces are well equiped to combat this girls all around university and
|>high schools. Many of the girls has been denied to access even in public
|>libraries because of their islamic dress code.  Do not mention muslims
|>with beard in universities.
|
|Also, moslem men are not allowed to have more than one wife. Nor are they
|allowed to marry 9-year-old girls...
|
|So it is obvious that Ataturk and all his followers are traitors to 
|Islam!
|>

+Dear AT,

+It seems you do not have anything to say about the opression on the
+muslim students, then you try to change the subject, is this all
+you can say about my statemt above?

+Regards,

+Lami

|>Lami
|>
|Vesselam,
|AT

It is their indispensible character, Brother Lami. They do it always..

It can be seen even in the parliament today that the people who
have had more than one wife are usually Progressive, Komunist persons.
Just look at the MPs from the left wing (SHP,CHP etc) (especially
the MPs from the East part of Turkey).

In Turkey, for true practicing muslims, it is rare to have more than
one wife. Because it is conditional in Qur'an and Hadith. First of
all, you must have justice between them, you must have seperate houses
for each etc. which is very difficult to establish in today's Turkiye.   

Regards 
Beytullah
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: deniz@mandolin.ctr.columbia.edu (Deniz Akkus)
Subject: Re: Ata-Turk - Trator or Ok dude?
Organization: Columbia University Center for Telecommunications Research
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 13:41:58 GMT
X-Posted-From: mandolin.ctr.columbia.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Nov17.171533.27432@Cadence.COM> mas@Cadence.COM (Masud Khan) writes:
>Is Ata-Turk considered a hero amongst Turks? and what about
>amongst practising Muslim Turks? The reason I ask is
>that all the rest of the Islamic world see him as an
>evil trator who compromised Islam and turned Turkey
>into a secular state.
>

Mustafa Kemal Ataturk remains one of the most revered figures of Turkish
history.  I find what you say about other Islamic people seeing him as
traitor rather surprising  -- I seem to remember a brief episode of
'Kemalism' among the forces fighting colonial powers in the Islamic
world,  and also, in my opinion, making one's country the first
predominantly Muslim nation to fight and establish independence
successfully ought to stand for something.  

The reverence for Mustafa Kemal Ataturk is no longer comparable to the
reverence once shown to Lenin in ex Soviet Union for example.  On the
other hand, he is rightly regarded as a visionary and benevolent ruler
who steered his country through uncharted waters and did so
successfully.  He remains the only one of the 1930's style strong men
whose pictures still adorn the offices of its civil servants.  

Turkey is and has been 97% Muslim.  The state is secular, yet the people
identify themselves as Muslim.  Mosques remain open and well-attended
and the call to prayer can be heard throughout the country.  That there
is religious freedom and abeyance to Islam is not reinforced, is in my
opinion, one of Turkey's greatest strengths.  

regards,
Deniz Akkus deniz@ctr.columbia.edu 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast
From: dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian)
Subject: Islam versus Religion
Summary: Islam and Ataturk 
Organization: S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 02:39:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.142135.15324@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> deniz@mandolin.ctr.
columbia.edu (Deniz Akkus) wrote, among other things:

[DA] I think that Islam is a religion, not a way of life.

I don't know what you learned about "religion", especially Islam, but it WAS a
way of life, a culture, by definition!. It was a way of life for Beduin Arabs 
that made their lives better, healthier, than before Islam. I suggest you 
locate a reference on the way of life of Beduin Arab women before Islam. You
would find that Islam was an emancipation for these women. Today, Islam can 
look foolish or has been made to look foolish in this context, because the 
world from which we view Islam from has changed.
 
It's when a way of life of a social group becomes an institution, that is 
becomes a "religion" as we know it today. Just read the Quran, it is a program 
for a way of life. If the tenets of Islam are not viewed from within the
context from which they were set -- from the social environment from which
they were established in -- Islam makes little sense, and thus can be "viewed
for the West" by those who are opposed to what Islam represents today. 

Viewing Islam today, with today's values, can make it look foolish, as can
most any "way of life established many centuries ago".

I am suggesting you re-think your statement. I also suspect I am in your kill
file, and a such would ask others to forward this response to you.

Now, regarding Ataturk and his role in "transforming a society": when Ataturk
suppressed Islam in Turkey, he forcibly changed the way of life of a people,
Ottoman Turks, into Modern Turks. I suggest you think about this viewpoint
regarding what we have come to know as "religion".

 
-- 
David Davidian dbd@urartu.sdpa.org "It has been ever thus in all things, son, 
SDPA Center for Regional Studies    Whatever we thrash we give to the wind, 
P.O. Box 382761                     We too have been blown by the world's wind
Cambridge, MA 02238                 The chaff is gone but the grain remains."