HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Caffeine and Performance (was: Cyling and Doping)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 08:42:59 GMT

In article <1992Dec27.163618.6107@netcom.com> marquis@netcom.com (Roger Marquis) writes:

>There is _plenty_ of evidence that caffeine is a performance enhancing
>drug.  Where have you guys been? (obviously not reading Brooks' 'Sports
>Physiology')  Read on.
>
>
>------             CAFFEINE AND PERFORMANCE              ------
>
>
(The most incredable amount of stupidity yet in the caffeine wars)

Well, now we know that a cup of coffee a day is more dangerous than
heroin.

We also find out that caffeine doesn't work by stimulating the central
nervous system (hmm, as was also stated in the article), but works by
allowing the body to more efficiently consume it's own natural resources.

I think that that article demonstrates the incredable length to which
people will go to exagerate a point. Caffeine is present in tea, chocolate,
and many vegetables as well as being present in coffee and Coke. BTW,
I thought that it was rather a clever ploy to indicate that riders would
'limit' themselves to half a Coke. Coke has much lower levels of caffeine
(by law) than a cup of coffee. Most other soft drinks also contain caffeine.

BTW, LeMond 'uses' this terrible drug, caffeine, as he often drinks a couple
of Cokes near the end of a race to give himself a boost. Oh pooh, he only
uses them in the last half hour so there isn't enough time for the fatty
acids theory to have any effect.

I guess there's no reason to believe that most of these riders have pretty
horrible cycling food when compared to, say, PowerBars. And it would be too
much to believe that they drink softdrinks because they have high carbohydrate
content in an easy to find and easy to use package. No, that could never 
be the reason. It must be that they're all drug addicts.

Isn't it about time for several anecdotes about how some second stringer
became Superman after ingesting a deadly cup of coffee?
From: dc@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Daniel Cohen)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Cyling [sic] and Doping
Date: 24 Dec 92 11:43:03 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London

In <1992Dec22.160230.18662@cbnews.cb.att.com> ampe@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.e.ampe) writes:

>in mind.  Anyone who uses a banned drug with this intent deserves to
>be caught and punished.  By the way, this has nothing to do with
>morality.  It has to do with using drugs that have known harmful
>effects.

I can't accept that it "has nothing to do with morality". Why should
people be banned from using drugs that have known harmful effects?
(rhetorical question, before anyone gets worked up :-) If the taking of
such a drug had no impact on anyone else in the world, and the taker was
over 18 and of sound mind, I can't see why we would want to restrict his
freedom of choice. So, the reason these drugs are banned is because of
the effect they have on other people (mainly the other competitors in
the case of performance-enhancing drugs). ie. it is not considered
MORAL to impose on other competitors that they have to expose
themselves to these dangers if they want to compete.

In an "unrestricted" class of competition, as has been proposed on this
group recently, use of dangerous drugs would probably be considered
moral, which is why I think the only objection I've seen on this group
to the proposal is a potential legal problem. I personally hate the
idea, but have to admit to the logic. Perhaps the crumbling
amateur/professional divide will be replaced by a clean/unrestricted
divide in sport. I suspect that people would lose interest in
drug-enhanced sport, which would reduce the rewards for success and
hence reduce the incentive to take drugs and compete in this class.
Perhaps there would be a few sports (like powerlifting) in which the
unrestricted class was significant but I think the rest would remain
dominated by supposedly clean competitions, which might mean that the
problem wouldn't go away after all.

Daniel Cohen              Department of Computer Science 
Email: dc@dcs.qmw.ac.uk   Queen Mary and Westfield College
Tel: +44 71 975 5245/4/9  Mile End Road, London E1 4NS, UK
Fax: +44 81 980 6533      ******* Hit the North!!! *******
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: Cold Weather hydration (was: Re: Frozen water bottles)
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 15:04:30 GMT

jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt) writes:
>Oh wow!  First bicyclists shave legs in anticipation of crashing and
>now they dress like clowns to avoid getting crashed.  By this kind
>of logic I could explain almost any unconventional behavior or
>appearance.  I doubt, however, that punk skateboard types would
>stoop to such excuses for their appearance.

OK Jobst what do you wear when you ride?  Are you the standard for bike
clothing?  More importantly what is this chip on your shoulder about other
cyclists?  Maybe you should write a book called "The Bicycle World (according
to Jobst)".  The you can show us all the error of our ways.  BTW those Spud
road pedals you ride are purple and white, isn't that a tad garish?  What are
you trying to prove?
-Terry
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: "Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Trying to understand Jobst (Was: Re: Cold Weather hydration...)
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 21:59:34 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)

>DATE:   Wed, 23 Dec 92 16:54:06 GMT
>FROM:   Ken Lehner <kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com>
>
>In article <3450007@hplred.HPL.HP.COM>, jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt) writes:
>|> 
>|> The motorists don't give a damn.  Its the bicyclists who feel
>|> awkward in their provocative punk-like attire with iridescent
>|> shades and Day-Glo equipment. 
[....]
>|> 
>|> This is parallel to the woman who comes to a cocktail party dressed
>|> with so much exposure and glittering attire that she feels a need to
>|> light up a cigarette just to be doing something other than
>|> apparently soliciting attention (possibly sexual at that). 

Oh my God! I haven't been following this thread, and now -- too late -- 
I find that Jobst Brandt has been here with obiter dicta on cycling fashion
and his insights into the eternal riddle of Woman. 

This is priceless, and I'm really vexed to have missed a word of it. Has 
anybody been keeping this material?

--Michael Smith
From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Team Motorola will Race on Clinchers in 1993
Date: 24 Dec 1992 18:36:07 GMT
Organization: Sun
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver

In article <Bzrso3.L8r@news.water.ca.gov> stevec@water.ca.gov writes:
>Bruce Hildenbrand writes:
>>The subject line says it all, the brand will most likely be
>>Specialized.
>
>If they use Specialized, I would like to see if they switch for wet weather.
>My experience of Specialized tires in wet weather has been kinda painful.
>I've had better experience with Avocets and Michelins.

Specialized has a new grey colored rubber compund that they claim is
softer and stickier than their current offering.  You can try these
things out for about $28 at your local shop.

Bruce

ps - at least they aren't using those junky Avocet tires(see, Jobst,
even I can get a dig in without trying hard)

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: les@SAIL.Stanford.edu (Les Earnest)
Subject: Re: USCF 1993 Categorization Guidelines
Reply-To: les@cs.stanford.edu
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<21DEC92.00291666@amazon.pfc.mit.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 10:15:45 GMT

Paul Stek writes:
   The upgrade policy from 3 to 2 seems a bit tough.  In New England
   we have a harder time filling a 1,2 field than a 3 field.  This
   will only get worse with these changes.  What is the rational?

If you are asking me, I refuse to answer on the grounds that it may
tend to incriminate them.
--
Les Earnest           Phone:  415 941-3984    Fax: 415 941-3934
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
From: ianbjor@argon.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Ian D. Bjorhovde)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Team Motorola will Race on Clinchers in 1993
Date: 2 Jan 93 02:29:04 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson

In article <3450009@hplred.HPL.HP.COM> jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt) writes:
>I think there is a misunderstanding of the concept here.  Pro teams
>don't choose tires on the basis of whether they get glass cuts or
>thorns.  First off, the roads they race on in Europe have
>practically none of these hazards and second, they ride the tire
>that pays them to ride them.  Tires are such an apparently important
>piece of equipment that I can't imagine a business director would
>just use one tire over others at the current state of affairs.  I
>would guess that Continental or Michelin would pick this one up
>because they are the two big European firms that have taken a great
>interest in racing.

No kidding, Jobst!  Why do pros use anything?  Because they are
SPONSORED.  Why did *I* start riding Continentals?  Because they gave my
team a good deal, as I said in my previous post.  However, many pros
have been known to use their personal 'favorite' equipment, as I am sure
that you know, and simply remove the manufacturer's logo.  (To keep
flames down: Yes, this would be kind of difficult with Contis,
considering their unique coloring).

>> I have ridden a pair of Contis for over 5 months, no flats, no
>> problems.  (They were pretty dead when I changed them, though).
>
>Your testimonial is a bit ambivalent.  What was the measure by which
>they were "pretty dead".  How many miles did you get on the rear
>tire?

Like Terry said, I was just trying to show my PERSONAL like of
Continental tires.  Note that my original follow-up was to someone who
said (sorry, I can't remember the name): "Can you say Continental?  I
knew you could".

Sheesh.


--Ian D. Bjorhovde
  ianbjor@gas.uug.arizona.edu
  Systems Administrator
  Unix Users Group, The University of Arizona
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: les@SAIL.Stanford.edu (Les Earnest)
Subject: Re: The non-assassination of President Ford
Reply-To: les@cs.stanford.edu
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<1992Dec29.034016.6715@netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 11:41:48 GMT

Roger Marquis comments on my article about the 1980 Red Zinger:
   .  .  .
   Wait a minute Les, you we're just talking about the Boulder criterium.
   Methinks your memory is fading.  Not that '77 was all that long ago.

My article was about the 1980 Red Zinger, not '77.

   [.  .  .]  Susan St. James was at the _Boulder_ criterium though (you
   didn't get her phone number by any chance?)

First, we race officials write down only lap numbers, rider numbers
and times.  No telephone numbers, especially not with my wife also
sitting on the judging stand.  Second, I did not state, nor did I
intend to imply, that Ms. St. James was at the Vail stage.  No self-
respecting affiliate of the leftist Celestial Seasonings Tea Company
would be caught dead in that hotbed of Republicanism.

   [.  .  .]
   Not that a republican would want to have anything to do with a bunch
   of counterculture types like we cyclists were in those days before Greg
   Lemond and the LA Olympics.

In fact, Greg rode the Red Zinger the year before, in 1979, when he
was still a Junior.  He also crashed on two occasions in that race
after breaking away because he had not yet mastered the art of turning
his head, to see if anyone was following, without also twisting his
handlebars.  Rather embarrassing.

   I have always wondered Les, how Roger Young managed to talk you guys
   (officials) into letting him back into the race after sitting out
   nearly a dozen laps (of a miss and out no less) after his crash.  Can
   you fill me in on this?

Hmm.  I believe that Roger M. is talking here about the 1978 Red Zinger,
which was the only time that a miss-and-out stage was held in Vail.
(It appears that Roger's memory is even worse than mine.)

In any case, only one official called the misses in that event and it
wasn't me, so I can't comment on the alleged laxity.  As I recall, it
was Yvonne VanGent, who is still the Colorado district rep.

I've outlined a longer article on the 1978 Red Zinger, which was much
more screwed up than the later editions and therefore more
interesting.  I'll try to finish and post it sometime next year.
--
Les Earnest           Phone:  415 941-3984    Fax: 415 941-3934
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: Team Motorola will Race on Clinchers in 1993
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 16:31:09 GMT

jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt) writes:
>Ian D.  Bjorhovde writes:
>> I agree WHOLE-HEARTEDLY.  I switched to Conts when my team was
>> given a good deal on tires, and I was finally rescued from the
>> god-awful Michelins that I had been riding (read: flats galore,
>> torn sidewalls, etc).
>I think there is a misunderstanding of the concept here.  Pro teams
>don't choose tires on the basis of whether they get glass cuts or
>thorns.  First off, the roads they race on in Europe have
>practically none of these hazards and second, they ride the tire
>that pays them to ride them.  Tires are such an apparently important
>piece of equipment that I can't imagine a business director would
>just use one tire over others at the current state of affairs.  I
>would guess that Continental or Michelin would pick this one up
>because they are the two big European firms that have taken a great
>interest in racing.
No shit!  As if we didn't know that.
>> I have ridden a pair of Contis for over 5 months, no flats, no
>> problems.  (They were pretty dead when I changed them, though).
>Your testimonial is a bit ambivalent.  What was the measure by which
>they were "pretty dead".  How many miles did you get on the rear
>tire?

Jesus Christ Jobs give the guy a break.  He likes his tires.  That doesn't mean he has to conduct tests on them.  Not everybody analyzes things to death.
-Terry
>jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: stevec@water.ca.gov (Steve Croft)
Subject: Re: Team Motorola will Race on Clinchers in 1993
Reply-To: stevec@water.ca.gov
Organization: California Department of Water Resources
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 15:36:02 GMT

Bruce Hildenbrand writes:
>The subject line says it all, the brand will most likely be
>Specialized.

If they use Specialized, I would like to see if they switch for wet weather.
My experience of Specialized tires in wet weather has been kinda painful.
I've had better experience with Avocets and Michelins.

Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.racing:974 rec.bicycles.marketplace:1704
From: jra@bally.com (John Andersson)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing,rec.bicycles.marketplace
Subject: Re: LOOK mtb pedal/shoe system
Date: 21 Dec 92 19:10:32 GMT
Organization: Bally Systems Division - Reno, NV

the cycling shoes that i use with them are sidi's and i did have to
drill 1 hole; interesting they had pre-drilled holes for look road
cleats!? most people i ride with around here have shimano stuff
(mostly because they're famous and get it free ;-) i'm the only one i
know with looks. i'm not a racer guy (used to race on the road), but
last summer i was doing a couple 4+ hour rides per week off road
riding with local shredders (some of whom are national shredders),
alot of it spent around truckee/lake tahoe area, pretty varying
terrain, ie not "recreational" rides.

the original post mentioned a shop "blowing them out", could you email
-- 
John Andersson
jra@bally.com
Bally Mfg. - Reno, NV
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: strauss@umahe2.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Who is Dave Harvey
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 21:13:46 GMT

In article <MJOHNSTO.92Dec17090223@jenny.shearson.com>, mjohnsto@jenny.shearson.com (Mike Johnston) writes:

> Dave is an 
> up-and-coming Cat III cyclist who worships Greg LeMond and does his
> utmost to emulate Gregs heroic, supermacho cycling feats. 

How in the world could anyone who spins up L'Alpe D'Huez at 120 RPM's
in a 54x11 and creates a sonic boom while descending only be a Cat III?
I'm so disillusioned.

Mike Strauss
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com (Ken Lehner)
Subject: Trying to understand Jobst (Was: Re: Cold Weather hydration...)
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 16:54:06 GMT

In article <3450007@hplred.HPL.HP.COM>, jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt) writes:
|> 
|> The motorists don't give a damn.  Its the bicyclists who feel
|> awkward in their provocative punk-like attire with iridescent
|> shades and Day-Glo equipment.  There seems to be a need for them to
|> pull out their bottle and drink to give credence to the seriosness   
|> of their athletic pursuit.  After all this is a "training" ride.

I take the above to refer to those bicyclists in their "provocative
punk-like attire with iridescent shades and Day-Glo equipment" AND WHO
feel awkward in this attire WHO ALSO need to "give credence to the
seriousness of their athletic pursuit."  I'm sure that Jobst would agree
that not all cyclists who are in the first category automatically fall
into the second and/or third category.

|> 
|> This is parallel to the woman who comes to a cocktail party dressed
|> with so much exposure and glittering attire that she feels a need to
|> light up a cigarette just to be doing something other than
|> apparently soliciting attention (possibly sexual at that).  This
|> need to be doing something when looking so spectacular is not
|> unusual.
|> 
|> Now please don't all volunteer as subjects of this description and
|> take this as a personal attack.  I have no idea why some bicyclists
|> dress as garishly  as they do.  Some of them certainly play the role
|> of the cocktail guest excellently.

"And some of them certainly don't".  I'm beginning to see my problem (note:
my problem, not his) with Jobst's posts:  he lays down a criticism
(perhaps a legitimate one) which, due to the wording, can be (wrongly)
construed to attack a larger group than he intends.  He doesn't add the
social nicety of my first phrase to clarify the intended group.  Does
Jobst do this deliberately, to see what reactions he can elicit?  THAT I
would have a problem with.

Jobst, is the following a correct summary of your position?

	Some cyclists drink during rides to attempt to impress drivers (and
	possibly other riders, and possibly themselves) that they (the
	drinkers) are doing serious training.  They do this at intersections,
	where the likelihood of being observed by drivers is highest.  I do
	not need, or choose not, to drink very much during my winter rides.

	Some cyclists dress in loud colors and iridescent glasses; I don't
	know why some of them do this.  It reminds me of women at parties who
	wear provocative clothes to attract attention.
	attention.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: greg@ranger.sce.carleton.ca (Greg Franks)
Subject: Re: Who is Dave Harvey
Organization: Systems and Computer Engineering, Carleton University.
	<MJOHNSTO.92Dec17090223@jenny.shearson.com>
	<1992Dec21.131346.1@umahe2.slac.stanford.edu>
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:03:53 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.131346.1@umahe2.slac.stanford.edu> strauss@umahe2.slac.stanford.edu writes:
   In article <MJOHNSTO.92Dec17090223@jenny.shearson.com>, mjohnsto@jenny.shearson.com (Mike Johnston) writes:

   > Dave is an 
   > up-and-coming Cat III cyclist who worships Greg LeMond and does his
   > utmost to emulate Gregs heroic, supermacho cycling feats. 

   How in the world could anyone who spins up L'Alpe D'Huez at 120 RPM's
   in a 54x11 and creates a sonic boom while descending only be a Cat III?
   I'm so disillusioned.

   Mike Strauss

He goes too fast, so he crashes in every race.  
Ouch.
  :-)
--
Greg Franks   (613) 788-5726     Systems and Computer Engineering,
uunet!mitel!cunews!sce!greg      Carleton University,
greg@sce.carleton.ca             Ottawa, Ontario, Canada  K1S 5B6.
Overwhelm them with small bugs so they don't see the big ones.
From: jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 00:30:13 GMT
Subject: Re: Team Motorola will Race on Clinchers in 1993
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing

Ian D.  Bjorhovde writes:

> I agree WHOLE-HEARTEDLY.  I switched to Conts when my team was
> given a good deal on tires, and I was finally rescued from the
> god-awful Michelins that I had been riding (read: flats galore,
> torn sidewalls, etc).

I think there is a misunderstanding of the concept here.  Pro teams
don't choose tires on the basis of whether they get glass cuts or
thorns.  First off, the roads they race on in Europe have
practically none of these hazards and second, they ride the tire
that pays them to ride them.  Tires are such an apparently important
piece of equipment that I can't imagine a business director would
just use one tire over others at the current state of affairs.  I
would guess that Continental or Michelin would pick this one up
because they are the two big European firms that have taken a great
interest in racing.

> I have ridden a pair of Contis for over 5 months, no flats, no
> problems.  (They were pretty dead when I changed them, though).

Your testimonial is a bit ambivalent.  What was the measure by which
they were "pretty dead".  How many miles did you get on the rear
tire?

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: rajacobs@plg.uwaterloo.ca (Rory Jacobs)
Subject: Re: pedals vs. clipless
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 15:06:58 GMT

In article <ayqiwB4w165w@cyberden.sf.ca.us> kronos@cyberden.sf.ca.us writes:
>In the racing mags one often sees both pedals and clipless 
>systems in use. I've been wondering whether to get a clipless
>system on my mtb, but they weight a good half pound more than 
>a lightweight pedal set. So, I'm wondering if people find an 
>advantage in comfort, ergonomics, pedal efficiency or just
>buy them because they're cool!

All of the above.  Plus I, as a <ahem> several time champion of spectacular
crashes, would rate them safer to. 

>
>"Open head, insert instructions, stir well..."
>             T Reed aka Kronos@Cyberden.sf.ca.us

-Rory

---
Rory Jacobs                       rajacobs@plg.uwaterloo.ca 
Department of Computer Science    University of Waterloo, Waterloo Ont.
   >Hi, I'm a .sig virus.  Copy me into your .sig and join the fun!<   
A guy grumbled at his friend,  and then said "Sorry,  I'm in a bad mood
today". The friend asks why, and the guy replies quite matter-of-factly
"Well, I'm in grad school"
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing