HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Positioning of netters in hypothetical baseball games.
Keywords: Dove Bar, Hrbek, Yummy, Fielder's Choice=Pizza.
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:08:22 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering

Thus spake zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Under The Gun Huckabay):
>
>And WHY the hell am I hitting ninth?  Tate wouldn't take a pitch if it
>hit him in the teeth.  

Not true!  I take two pitches a day, between meals, and with a full glass
of water.  Keeps me a "regular guy" in the clubhouse.


-- 
      David M. Tate      | From my dugout sleep I fell into the Game
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | And I crouched in the circle while my insides froze
 Randall 'Chico' Jarrell | One out from death, one hit from dreamt-of glory
"Death of a Pinch Hitter"| I woke to 'Strike One!' and the nightmare sliders...
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ron@osf.org (Ron Birnbaum)
Subject: Re: Boggs Toronto bound?
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:37:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.002553.1291@cs.cornell.edu>, tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
|> 
|> It looks to *me* like Boggs usually hits around .280 on the road these
|> days.  But an empty .280, with practically no power and only a "pretty
|> good" OBP.
|> 
|> How much is this worth to you?  How much is this player worth to you
|> when he is three years older?

  Besides, Boggs has pratctially NO ablility to draw fans. At least people
  will go see Ripkin over the next 3 years no matter how well he plays. But
  nobody will go out of their way to see Boggs. Not even his wife!

 
|> Cheers,
|> -Valentine
|> -- 
|> Clemens may not win his 4th CY, but he still rules!	tedward@cs.cornell.edu

  Then again, he may win it after all!

-Ron
From: sam@terapin.com (Sam Lewit)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Blockbuster trade
Date: 2 Sep 92 04:41:30 GMT
Organization: BBS

As one of the few A's fans I've seen writing in this newsgroup, I can tell you
my thoughts on the trade.

I'm not a big Canseco fan, but I like him, and always cheer for him regardless
of his frequent called 3rd strikes. As one person said (Reggie Jackson?), "Love
him or hate him, but when Canseco comes to the plate, you don't go out for hot
dogs of peanuts".

I'm depressed. This trade has ruined the excitement of what appears (or
appeared) to be another pennant. My next door neighbor is a Canseco fanatic and
now not only refuses to watch the games, but he is now rooting for Minnesota!

I've only been into baseball the past 4 years, but I've seen Canseco do some
earth shattering stuff. The 5th deck shot in the Skydome is one of my most
memorable.

I don't understand the reasoning behide this trade. You've got a got who is
signed for the next 3 years at 5 mil a year. If you were to sign him again at
this moment, he'd without a doubt be the top earning player in the game. So
what do the A's do? They sign a guy like Witt who is inconsistant. Maybe Duncan
can turn Witt into an ace pitcher like he has with Stewart and Eckersly. Maybe
he can't. Then we get Russell who may only be an Oakland A for a few more
weeks. Then Sierra who is going to command at LEAST as much as Canseco is
getting now. Oh, and he's out for a couple of weeks. Am I crazy or is this the
mega-trade blunder of the decade/century?

My final thoughts... even if this is a good trade, I think it was a bad time to
do it. I realize they had to do something by the deadline, but this has left a
very uneasy feeling for a lot of A's fans just when they should be the most
excited during this pennant race. I predict the A's will go on to win the AL
West, but I believe the A's will falter (because of this trade), and it will be
a much tighter race toward the wire. If I were a Minnesota fan (like my traitor
next door neighbor), I see some real encouragement with this.
From: pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Pirates Pursue Protest of Dodger Game Monday Night
Date: 26 Aug 1992 10:46:57 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

Despite long odds against them, the Pirates have not dropped
their protest of Monday night's game.  Apparently, Manager
Leyland wants clarification of the rule...specifically, he
wants to know the definition of "bounding ball."

It seems pretty clear to me that bounding balls refer to
balls that hit the ground, then "bound" over the wall....
that is, the well known ground rule double type of hit.
If that's the case, the ball Goodwin deflected over the
wall would not be considered a bounding ball.

Guess the Commissioner's Office will have to decide this one.
The way the Dodgers' season has gone, it wouldn't surprise
me in the least if the Pirates win the protest.  But then
what happens?  Do they have to play the entire game over
from scratch, or just pick up from the point of contention???

AND, speaking of protests....the case of Mike Scioscia's alleged
interference by using his mask to retrieve a wild pitch was
brought up again by Vin Scully.  It seems that the widely
quoted rule refers to a "thrown ball."  But other parts of
the rule book make it clear that position players throw a ball,
but the pitcher pitches a ball.  So the widely quoted rule
about using equipment would seem, technically, only to apply
to position players throwing a ball and not to a pitcher's
wild pitch.  But the Dodgers gratiously dropped their protest
anyway :-)
					BleedsDodgerBlue

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dkl@cs.arizona.edu (David K. Lowenthal)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Jose Canseco to Texas...
Date: 1 Sep 92 17:41:56 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <55947@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith) writes:
>
>....worse stuff, and I personally believe that House just wasn't the
>right pitching coach for a guy like Witt.
>Russ Smith

Who is House the right pitching coach for?  Himself maybe, but who else?


--dave

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: bacarlso@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Brad Carlson)
Subject: Box scores on the net?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 19:27:16 GMT

Are box scores posted anywhere on the net (or for that matter through
listservers, ftp sites, commercial services (ie I have access to Dow
Jones), etc)?  Thanks for any and all help.

- Brad


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Brad Carlson
bacarlso@silver.ucs.indiana.edu

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
From: boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 17:45:55 GMT
Subject: Swift on DL again
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

Here we go again....

Giants announced yesterday that Swift is on the DL again.  I don't have
any more details at this point.

After a wonderful start, Swift hasn't done much of anything since his
first stint on the DL.  Some of this is due to lack of support.  In other
games he just has not pitched that well.  Meanwhile, Mitchell has 9 hrs 
and is batting in the .270s.

A trade should be viewed on what it does to a teams standings from one
year to the next.  Last year at this time the Giants were contenders.
This year they are a truely pathetic team 16 games out.

With Swift on the DL twice (and only single digit wins) and Burba in the
minor leagues one must ask how many game winning hits Mitchell would have
provided.  IMO this trade was a mistake for SF.

************************************************
* Donald Boell - Hewlett Packard               *
*                                              *
* When you're chewing on life's gristle        *
* Don't grumble, give a whistle - Monty Python *
*                                 Life of Brian*
************************************************


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: heartlab@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Heartlab People)
Subject: Canseco
Organization: The John P. Robarts Research Institute, London, Ontario
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 15:06:02 GMT

There has always been a cloud around Jose Canseco. People always wondering
what he could have done if he had played in a hitters park. Well he's
finally out of Oakland, and in Texas, where he is in a fine hitters park.
My question is, if Canseco rests fully in the off-season and totally 
heals, what sort of homerun numbers could we expect from him? 40-50-60?

Small Fact: Only two players have hit a homerun into the Fith Deck of the
Skydome (Known around here as the Skydeck). Can anyone name them?

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: roy NL
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 02:00:48 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.003444.21034@athena.mit.edu> chico@athena.mit.edu (Thomas A Weston) writes:

>Karros is putting up those numbers in Dodger stadium (AKA Hitter's hell). 
>Sanders, playing in Cincinnati isn't as good as his stats.  Karros in LA is
>better than his.  I'm sure when the seasons over the Dodgers, with their sad
>hitting and decent pitching, will have one of the lowest one year park factors
>in recent history.  Karros's numbers in that environment are impressive.  When
>you consider that on a team that had Eric Davis, Darryl Strawberry, Kal Daniels
>and Juan Samuel for the middle of their lineup only Karros has delivered, it
>becomes obvious that he's having a good rookie year.  Not great, but better than
>anyone else out there.

Dodger Stadium is a pitchers' park, but it is no AstroDome.  You are
misunderstanding the park factor; it is a factor of how many runs Dodgers and
their opponents score at home vs. how many runs Dodgers and their opponents
score in other places.

Besides, you haven't addressed the question that Karros is at best an average
1B for this season, while Sanders is among the elite center fielders
offensively.  Alou is not quite as good offensively, but he is better
defensively.  I would vote for both of those before I consider Karros.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hutto@SMTC.engr.scarolina.edu (Brent Hutto)
Subject: Re: Blockbuster trade
Reply-To: hutto@smtc.engr.scarolina.edu
Organization: NIST Southeast Manufacturing Technology Center
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 12:38:47 GMT

>In article <1992Sep1.040424.13081@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>
>But what will Oakland look like next year?  Their free agents include
>Ruben Sierra, Mike Moore, Dave Stewart, Jeff Russell, Mark McGwire,
>Ron Darling, Terry Steinbach, Harold Baines, Rick Honeycutt, Gene
>Nelson, Willie Wilson, Kelly Downs, Carney Lansford, Randy Ready,
>Jamie Quirk, and Rich Gossage.
>
>That's 16 players from the 25 man roster.  Two thirds of the team!
>It'll be a fun winter in Oakland!

    I'm not sure this line of reasoning is sound, but let's try it anyway...

    *IF* Oakland has a number of good prospects coming up over the next
    year or two and *IF* Oakland's management figures it time for a big
    "rebuilding", wouldn't it work out well to have all those guys coming
    up as free agents in the same year as expansion?  That way, you don't
    have to use any of your 15 or whatever spots to protect these guys and
    your payroll is going to be way low for a couple of seasons if most of
    the free agents walk away and take their big salary expectations with
    them and their roster is clear for whatever prospects (once again,
    assuming they *have* some prospects). Also, it seems like an expansion
    year will be as good a time as any to rebuild.  Finally, if you lose
    all those big salaries, you can afford to really bid large if you want
    to keep, say, a McGwire or attract, say, a Bonds.

    OK, fire away.  I'm just speculating here with absolutely no knowledge
    of: 1) what the Oakland minor league system is like, 2) the effects of
    expansion, 3) what goes on in the mind of major-league "management".

-------------------------------
Brent Hutto
hutto@SMTC.engr.scarolina.edu
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies, & Statistics (was Re: The Monthly Cecil Fielder Thread
Date: 3 Sep 92 13:34:04 GMT
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853

In article <1992Sep03.105123.10657@brtph560.bnr.ca> psycho@brtpa25.bnr.ca (Paul Jezioranski) writes:
>
>Sure. Simply idiotic. An example:
>
>	Rudy Fafoofnik: 680 Plate appearances, 1.000 SLG, 1.000 OBP
>	
>......	but he scored zero runs because he hit 680 two out singles and the guy
>	behind him struck out 680 times.

1) This doesn't happen.

2) If it did, I wouldn't fire Rudy.  I'd go after the guy behind him
with a chainsaw!

3) I would proceed to use that chainsaw on the manager who designed
the batting order so that *all* of Rudy's plate appearances came with
two outs!!!

>Sure you can draw a "likely" conclusion from just those three stats, but
>you can draw a better conclusion from what the player himself did.
>Singles, doubles, triples, homers, runs scored, walks, at bats, and RBI
>give a better than "likely" conclusion of the player's value to the
>team, and you can calculate your three numbers from these stats.

I agree.  Except eliminate "runs scored" and "RBIs".  As your above
example proves, they only partially show what your player did.  They
are *very* largely dependent on what his teammates did.

If you bat Rudy in front of this guy who tries to ground into a double
play every time up, he isn't going to score any runs.  If you bat him
in front of Ruth and Gehrig, then Rudy will lead the league with
something like 200-300 runs scored!

Therefore (by your line of reasoning), Rudy is the worst hitter in the
league when he has Joe Schmoe hitting behind him, and the best hitter
this world has ever known when he has Ruth and Gehrig hitting behind
him.

And you call *my* stats idiotic???

>My contention is that adding external dependencies (such as who and
>how many were in scoring position, who was pitching, etc)

Whoa!  None of us have suggested such things.  You don't see me trying
to adjust SLG for how many batters were in scoring position.  You
don't see me adding 20 points of OBP because a batter faced good
pitching.  You won't get any milk by beating that dead, straw, horse!
(A statement considerably less confused than your argument.)

I think you are starting with the hypothesis "Runs and RBIs are god".
Try to approach those stats with as much skepticism as you use on
everything else, and you will see that they reflect PT and teammates
as much as anything else.  You can then, of course, draw all sorts of
silly conclusions.  Like trading Rudy for a middle reliever because
"he just doesn't know how to win".

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Clemens four Cy Young!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: shott@cascade.Stanford.EDU (John Shott)
Subject: Waivers/DL/Option Rules?
Organization: Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University, California
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 23:50:37 GMT

As we have just passed the September 1 date when rosters can be
expanded from 25 to 40 and there has been a flurry of last-minute trades
.... can anyone point me to a good source which would list the rules
applicable to such terms as clearing waivers, optioned to AAA, out of
options, eligibility for post-season play, and protected status during the
expansion draft.  Each of these terms appear frequently in the sports page
without clear explanations.  I'm guessing that some of these are found in
the Rules of Baseball, but I assume that others are contained in the
agreement between MLB and the Players Union, and can even imagine that some
are contained in some sort of "Rules of Trading and Roster Changes" for MLB.
This seems to be an area where many people only have a fuzzy feel for what
the rules and constraints are, so pointers to where I can track down
information related to the REAL rules would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for the help,

John

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dzappala@caldera.usc.edu (Daniel Zappala)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: MLB Magic Numbers for Thu, Sep 3rd, 1992
Date: 3 Sep 1992 17:27:01 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dzappala@caldera.usc.edu (Daniel Zappala)
NNTP-Posting-Host: caldera.usc.edu


In article <1992Sep3.200341.23998@usceast.cs.scarolina.edu>, hutto@SMTC.engr.scarolina.edu (Brent Hutto) writes:
|>     Since the
|>     Dodger's "magic number" is now 6, wouldn't it be nice for the Braves and
|>     their fans if the Dodgers got MATHEMATICALLY ELIMINATED right there in
|>     Atlanta!  I know it's nothing compared to going to the World Series twice
|>     in a row, but a nice piece of icing on top of a great season (so far).
|> 


Hey, what do you have against the Dodgers??!  You already killed them last
year by having that great second half and squeezing them out of first!
What more do you want??  Tromp on them while they're down in last place??
They never did anything to you!  They were just minding their business, having
a good season, and suddenly this team, from nowhere, which had been lousy
for years, decides to beat them.  What more do you want??

Whine, whine, moan.  


;-)

Daniel
From: gt4925b@prism.gatech.EDU (Jason Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Sold out???
Date: 28 Aug 92 02:27:13 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Politically Incorrect and Proud of It

In <2227@h.cs.wvu.wvnet.edu> Gerry Hobbs writes:

 >The Braves announced that Tuesday's game was not sold out after
 >XX consecutive sell outs. On a couple occassions the announcers have
 >gone to great pains to explain that the game really was sold out
 >even though 33,000 or so showed up, citing inclement weather as
 >the culprit. On other occassions during the streak the paid attendence
 >has been around 37,000 and the weather appeared clement(?) as all
 >hell. It is easy to believe the Braves are playing a little game here.
 >Make everyone think that tickets are hard to get so they'll buy them
 >up. Has anyone been to one of the "sell outs" and purchased a ticket
 >right before the game?

 >Related question. My kids are bugging me to take them to Camden Yards.
 >All games seem to be announced as sell outs. Are they really, or can I
 >get (even standing room) tickets at the gate?
 >         Gerry

 Notice that the "paid attendance" is always announced.  The Braves
have a program with Atlanta area schools for straight A students
to attend games - free.  Sometimes this is 4000-5000 students at
a game.  

Also, the no-show rate is up to about 10% this year, due to crack
downs on scalping (even selling for face value or less will earn
you a trip to jail).  No-shows don't count in the paid attendance.

The stadium holds ~52000.  Subtract 4000 students, 4000 no-shows,
and a couple of thousand more promotional "free" tickets.  Now
the low 40's could be a sellout.

I've been to several sellouts this year and seen people purchasing
tickets - from scalpers for 4 to 10 times the face value.  If any
tickets were available at the box office, people wouldn't pay
scalpers the high prices.


-- 
Jason Woodward | EE Graduate Student | Georgia Tech | Go Braves

Reason #461 to not vote for Bill Clinton: Justice Mario Cuomo
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mtm@col.hp.com (Mike Magill)
Subject: White Sox Schedule
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:38:12 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

Anybody know if the White Sox have any home dates 9/21 thru 9/24 ?
Thanks

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rlopez@loanstar.tamu.edu (Robert Lopez)
Subject: Jeff Russell to Oakland (was Re: Jose Canseco to Texas...
Keywords: eat more blown moose
Organization: The Hosequarium South
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 22:21:49 GMT

In article <24378@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, kday@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Kevin Day) writes:
|>  
|>   Sierra for Canseco doesn't surprise me. What surprises me is Jeff
|> Russell being thrown in the deal. Is Russell a free agent this year
|> (I think he is)? Still, I don't see why Texas would want to get rid
|> of their only closer and I don't see why Oakland wants another one.
|> I think Eck has handled the job more than adequately. All in all, looking
|> at this trade, I think Oakland made out like a bandit.
|> 

Jeff will be a free agent.  Jeff leads the AL (and maybe all MLB) in
blown saves (9?).  The Rangers bullpen all told sucks big rocks anyway.
As a setup man, I think Jeff will do well for the Eck.  As a closer, I think
I know how you Boston fans felt with Reardon.

I think this is a *hell* of a deal for the out-of-contention Rangers.  
Perhaps it is a good deal for Oakland in the short term (this season), but
Sierra is on the DL with chicken pox.  Their punch is gone for awhile.
Perhaps they can resurrect Witt like they did Stew and Eck.  The Rangers
got a player that is signed for a few years.  Of course, how much playing
time has Jose missed in his career?

From a fan standpoint, though, Jose will help put people in the seats,
just like Ryan.  I'm pumped.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------
Robert E. L\'{o}pez       |       Internet:
Texas LoanSTAR Program    |       rlopez@loanstar.tamu.edu
The Hosequarium South     |       rlopez@cs.tamu.edu
----------------------------------------------------------
                 Texas A&M University 
                   boohoo.onyou.edu
----------------------------------------------------------
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: CY, MVP, ROY
Keywords: eat more moose
Date: 31 Aug 92 23:46:29 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <BtvB8p.4Lt@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets) writes:
...
>>>MVP
>>>1. Strong: Sheffield, McGriff
                         ^^^^^^^

>I don't see it myself. He needs to try to get on base more often IMO.
>Valuable, yes; Most, no.

Get on base more often?!?  How many players get on base more often
than McGriff??  Not too many.  He'll have another 100 BB season, 
probably.



-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
From: dswartz@sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Reardon to Braves
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:35:07 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Aug31.153526.2139@merrimack.edu>, desmondw@merrimack.edu writes:
> 
>      I suppose you've all heard about Jeff Reardon going to the Braves
> for 2 players to be named later. This deal was terrible for the Sox.

Untrue.  They did no worse than the Mets did trading Cone.  They lost an
over-the-hill closer (IMO) and got two minor leaguers, one of whom is a
pretty good pitching prospect (from what I've read).


> They probably weren't going to sign Jeff anyway but they don't even
> care who they get obviously. They should have gotten at least one starter.
> And who is gonna take over the duty as the closer? Harris? Yuk! Look for
> the Sox to be in the celler next year too now. You can't win without a
> closer. Also look for Clemens to rack up the complete games. Do you think
> he's ganna trust one of the bums to save his wins? 

Say what?  Have you even *watched* any of Clemens games?  Are you aware that
in the last two years Reardon has blown something on the order of 7-8 saves
for Clemens alone?  And he's only 1/5 of the starting rotation.  If I were
Roger, I'd refuse to leave the game unless the manager swore that he wouldn't
bring in Reardon.

>      I think the trade was a desperate attempt by Atlanta to counter Torontos
> big trade. They know they're in for some trouble come World Series baby!

Yeah right.  Assuming the Blow Jays don't fold in the ALCS, as is their wont.
Also, given that their starting rotation has given up somewhere around 7 runs
per game in the last month, I don't know how worried Atlanta should be.

-- 

Dan S.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball