From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
Subject: Re: Fear of Success (was Re: Oregon poll)
Keywords: significant words from a document used as an index to content
Date: 16 Oct 92 23:34:31 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Oct15.054912.10196@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>, StarOwl@uiuc.edu (StarOwl) writes:
> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> : StarOwl@uiuc.edu (StarOwl) writes:
> : > cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
# : # : How does Measure 9, by prohibiting the state from promoting 
# : # : homosexuality, sanction violent attacks on homosexuals?
# : # The answer to this question is left as an exercise to the reader.
# : Thank you, but you still haven't answered the question.  WHERE
# : does Measure 9 legalize violent attacks on homosexuals?  You provided
# : the text, but there is NOTHING in Measure 9's text that legalizes
# : what you describe.
# 
# Then you have found the answer to your question.
# 
# I think what most people are afraid of is that by the state's
# official recognition of homosexuality as a Bad Thing, people will
# take their homophobia to the extent of violent actions.

The state's laws also give official recognition right now that
murderers, rapists, armed robbers, etc. do a Bad Thing.  How many
lynchings of the above categories of already officially recognized
Bad Things were there last year in Oregon?

# Under Measure 9, it would be almost impossible to get the true message
# that gays, lesbians, and bisexuals aren't inherently "bad" across to
# the people.  You don't have to agree with what people do in bed, but
# their private lives do not make these people inherently "abnormal"
# or "perverse" or "bad."

You mean, eliminating state subsidy of pro-homosexual propaganda
makes it impossible for private propagandists to achieve their
goals?  Why?

# If I read the bill correctly (a copy follows my .sig), gay, lesbian,
# and bisexual activists would not be able to legally rally/demonstrate
# on public property.  Granted, I find most activists annoying, but they

Contrary to the right of assembly guaranteed by the Bill of Rights.
Even IF this section had that meaning, which I find a stretch,
it would be overturned by the federal courts.

Here's what it says:
#     (2) State, regional and local government and their
# properties and monies shall not be used to promote, encourage,
# or facilitate homosexuality, pedophilia, sadism or macochism.

"Properties" means auditoriums, schools, etc.  There has long been
recognized a difference between the public street, and a courtroom,
even though both are owned by the government.

# have the right to express their opinions through rallies, marches, protests,
# etc. on public property IMHO, so long as such activities do not
# interfere with the rights of others.  Free speech... remember that
# part of the Bill of Rights?  Under Measure 9, gay, lesbian, and bisexual
# activists could potentially lose the ability to legally express themselves 
# using techniques used by other activists -- a violation of the First 
# Amendment.

Huh?  Where does it say that homosexuals would no longer be able
to distribute flyers, write books, run TV ads, etc.?

# Besides all this, I have a big problem with legislating that certain
# forms of sexuality or sexual expression is inherently "bad."  It
# isn't right to label people as "freaks" just because of what they are.
# People do not "choose" their sexuality.   You can't really blame a
# person for something they have no voluntary control over.

NOTE: the following sentence is NOT drawing a parallel, but pointing
out the absurdity of this reasoning Mr. Adams expresses.

Does that mean we can't blame a mass murder who operates under
compulsion?  Should we have no laws against compulsive mass murderers?

# Anyway, is it really anyone's business what any other individual does
# in his bedroom, who he/she sleeps with, etc?
# --
# Michael Adams (aka StarOwl)	 		"Republicans understand the

If homosexuals believed that, they wouldn't be passing laws to
interfere in the private actions of consenting adults, by passing
antidiscrimination laws.

# Internet:  StarOwl@uiuc.edu			 importance of bondage between
# 
# Marrou/Lord in '92

I think you better rethink who you plan to vote for -- the primary
effect of Measure 9 is to take away governmental power to promote
homosexuality -- and you plan to vote for enemies of state power?

-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Lesson learned from Gov. Wilson's signing of AB 2601: if you don't get 
your way, have a riot.  Next time, Gov. Wilson will cower appropriately.