From: homebrew@lupulus.ssc.gov
Subject: HOMEBREW Digest #992
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 09:31:31 GMT


HOMEBREW Digest #992		             Fri 16 October 1992


	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  sweet gale? ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  malt liquor, cream ale (Rob Bradley)
  Postcard from Belgium (iknott)
  American Wheat Ale (Jon Binkley)
  Myrica Gale and Yarrow (G.A.Cooper)
  Insulating pots (Nick Zentena)
  Re: Maple Syrup Beer Recipes (dvac)
  Pressure cooker (cja)
  California Red and GABF ("CBER::MRGATE::\"A1::RIDGELY\"")
  dry hop vs. end-of-boil (Chris McDermott)
  I think I killed my yeast. (Roy Styan)
  HBD 989? ("John Cotterill")
  Re: what is am malt liquor? / beer vs ale etc. (John DeCarlo)
  What is Bass Ale? (Ron Ezetta)
  On-line homebrew tasting (McGlew Raymond)
  BAA ("Joe McCauley")
  Flatulence, Why worry about it ? (FSAC-PMD) <pburke@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
  Flatulence, Why worry about it ? (FSAC-PMD) <pburke@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
  Alie oops. (korz)
  Re: Insulating my boiling pot? (hinkens)
  polyclar (norman)
  calcium chloride (KLIGERMAN)
  Windbags (Jack Schmidling)
  Small Batches (Chris Cook, NMOS Quality Engineer - (301)386-7807)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 09:24:17 EDT
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas@med.umich.edu>
Subject: sweet gale?

Does anyone know where to get this spice (herb?)  It's one of the
ingredients in the Christmas Ale in Rajotte's Belgian Ale book.  I
looked at the local Food Co-op (in both the herbs and medicinal herbs
sections) and didn't find it.  The recipe calls for a total of 3
grams, so I obviously wouldn't need much!

Either a mail-order source, or one near to Ann Arbor, MI would be preferred.
Thanks.

=S

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 09:52:12 -0400
From: bradley@adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
Subject: malt liquor, cream ale

A few comments on the GABF thread:

MALT LIQUOR

As I'm sure most of you know, the megabreweries practice something
called `high extract brewing'.  The original gravity is significantly
higher than you would expect, and the beer is DILUTED ON THE BOTTLING
LINE to bring it to the correct strength!!!!!  [Thus all the bull in
the TV ads about shipping `concentrated beer' by train.]

According to Viv Jones, one-time brewmaster at Upper Canada in Toronto,
the final product in a typical North American brewery is 6.5% or more
alcohol by volume.  [As has been noted before alcohol by volume and
by weight are different....the figure of 6% by volume quoted in HBD991
is roughly in line with the figure of 5% quoted earlier in the same
issue, assuming that the later is by weight.]  The advantages of this
style of brewing are abvious: the throughput from a given brew-house
is vastly increased.  Original gravity is essentially as high as it can
possibly be without affecting yeast performance.

Apparently many brewers use the same beer to make light and regular:
just add more water for light beer!  Is it possible that `malt liquor'
is produced by the big guys by diluting less?  Let's look at some GABF
results:

>AMERICAN LAGER
> Gold: Schlitz, The Stroh Brewery Co., Detroit.
> Silver: Hamm's, Pabst Brewing Co., Milwaukee.
> Bronze: Stoney's Beer, Jones Brewing Co., Smithton, Pa.
> .......
>AMERICAN MALT LIQUOR
> Gold: Olde English 800 Malt Liquor, Pabst Brewing, Milwaukee.
> Silver: Silver Thunder Malt Liquor, Stroh Brewery Co., Detroit.
> Bronze: Colt 45 Malt Liquor, G. Heileman Brewing Co., La Crosse, Wis.

I wonder if anybody out there can verify what, if any, connection
there is between Schlitz and Siver Thunder?  Hamm's and Olde English?


CREAM ALE

Now here's an interesting case where, perhaps, GABF is doing some good.
Apparently, the style is called "American Sparkling Lager Ale" and is
a 19th century hybrid of Bohemian and North American techniques.
Primary at ale temperatures, secondary at lager temperatures.  Ale
or lager yeast can be uesd.  I grew up on it (-: Labatt's 50.

The night before the GABF results appeared, I was at the local Rite-Aid
pharmacy here on Long Island.  I noticed, for $2.39, 6-packs of Genesee
Cream Ale, with a sticker saying: winner at the GABF.  I knew it must
mean 1991 or earlier, since the GABF had just taken place.

Well I'm a Canadian, eh, so I'm not steeped in the local fraternity
culture.  Nevertheless, I have had regular Genesee and I do know better
than to expect great beer out of a can (or for $0.4 per can).  So I
wan't too disappointed.  I have since learned that it's main claim
to fame is its price.  To it's credit, the stuff has more body than
Bud and a tad more bitterness.  No particular hop or malt character.
It is most decidedly an industrial grade beer.

Well, let's look at the 1992 results:

>AMERICAN LAGER/ALE CREAM ALE
> Gold: Scrimshaw Beer, North Coast Brewing Co., Fort Bragg, Calif.
> Silver: Dock Street Cream Ale, Dock Street Brewing Co., Philadelphia.
> Bronze: Little King's Cream Ale, Hudepohl-Schoenling, Cincinnati.

Hmmmmmmmm.  Genesee's been kicked off the list and Little King's
is just hanging in there.  The gold and silver look like micros
(can anybody confirm?)  Seems there's a renaissance going on here!

[Thanks to Tony Babinec who e-mailed me on the subject of Cream
Ale/"American Sparkling Lager Ale" in March.]

Cheers,

Rob (bradley@adx.adelphi.edu)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 14:39:31 +0500
From: iknott@biocell.fundp.ac.be
Subject: Postcard from Belgium

Dear HBDers:
        Have so far spent ten days beer hunting in the UK, including visits
to three breweries and countless pubs.  I arrived yesterday here in
Belgium, and today had a lesson in yeast handling from some biologist
friends in Namur.  Notes are being taken on everything that moves, and if
it turns out that theres anything useful in the mess I will prepare a
report.  In any case, having a wonderful time, wish you were here!
        Phil Seitz

P.S. A note to any British readers; Tolly Cobbold is now offering a special
anniversary ale, which is available for only two weeks; if you find it,
dont hesitate!


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 08:04:44 -0600
From: Jon Binkley <binkley@beagle.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: American Wheat Ale

>Can anyone in the know out there post a description of American Wheat Ale.
>I've sampled "AWA's" that have been so close to Weizens that I don't know
>why the brewer differenciated. On the other side of the spectrum, many
>micro's (Dave Miller's being an example) brew a wheat ale that is so
>pedestrian that you'd never know there was wheat in it (The main reason for
>the beer seems to be to have an exotic name yet still appeal to the timid
>masses).  So what's the "official" line on American Wheat Ale?

The pedestrian version you and I both dislike is, in fact, American
Wheat Ale.  If it's close to a Weizen in taste then it is a Weizen.
American Wheats have similiar grain bills and hopping rates to
Weizens- i.e., 50-75% wheat malt, very low bittering, little
or no finishing hops.  The primary difference between them is the
yeast used to ferment them.  A Bavarian style Weizen uses
Saccharomyces delbruekeii; this yeast produces all the wonderful
spicy/fruity esters associated with the style.  American wheats,
exemplified by the insipid Anchor Wheat and Red Hook Brewery's
Wheat Hook, use standard ale yeast.  The result is an underhopped,
virtually flavorless beverage reminiscent of Miller Lite.

I would guess that they were oringinally trying to duplicate
the Bavarian style but didn't have access to the proper yeast.
But then they discovered that their customers were buying more
of their tasteless wheat beers than any of their good beers,
so they continue to make the crap.  Such is life in our
market driven society.  No problem, still plenty of good
Bavarian imports, and S. delbruekeii is available to us
homebrewers from Wyeast (#3056).

Jon Binkley


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 14:23:18 +0000
From: G.A.Cooper@qmw.ac.uk
Subject: Myrica Gale and Yarrow

There have been a number of questions about pre-hop beers, in particular
the use of Myrica Gale and Yarrow. The first two recipes in John Harrison's
book 'Old British Beers ...' suggests an OG 50 beer might have 1 gram each
     Myrica Gale (Sweet Gale)
     Ledum Palustre (Marsh Rosemary) and
     Achillea Millefolium (Millfoil or Yarrow)
in one imperial gallon (=1.2 US gallon). The herb mixture should be boiled
with the wort for 20 minutes. The OG 80 beer requires 1.5 gram each of the
herbs. No hops.

Disclaimer:
Yes I do have an interest in the book; I am a member of Durden Park Club.


------------------------------

Date: 	Thu, 15 Oct 1992 10:28:11 -0400
From: Nick Zentena <zen%hophead@canrem.com>
Subject: Insulating pots

Hi,
        One thing to try is the sort of insulation sold for
        use on hot water pipes. The kind I got for my old
        lautertun had glue on one side and foil on the
        outside.

        Whatever you use the best idea on a stove would be
        not to go all the way down the pot. Even insulating
        2/3 of the pot should make life much easier.

        If having fiberglass nearby bothers you then think
        about using wood. Wooden slats tied somehow around
        the pot should also help.

        Hope this helps
        Nick

*****************************************************************************
I drink Beer I don't collect cute bottles!
zen%hophead@canrem.com
*****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 09:14 MDT
From: dvac%druwa.att.com@hplb.hpl.hp.com
Subject: Re: Maple Syrup Beer Recipes

> I have a cousin that brews mostly extract beers.  He is looking for a
> recipe that has Maple syrup in it.  I look in the latest edition of _Cat's
> Meow_ but I only found a porter.  He prefers lighter beers.

Well, as a matter of fact my last brew was done with 16oz of Pure Maple
Syrup from Quebec Canada.  I also do most of my brews using mostly
extracts, and this one was made with John Bull hopped light extract,
some LME, crystal malt, and the syrup.   I was rather dissappointed with
the brew as the Maple Syrup was not as prominent as I had hoped.  I added
the syrup to the boil after about 20 minutes.  The syrup boiled for about 20
minutes, and steeped for about 15 minutes.  I am thinking about adding the
syrup at the very end (15 mins of steeping), and/or adding it to the
primary after the boil is done, allowing it to do it's thing in the primary.
I figure that may give me more of a maple flavor to the beer.

Any comments on this?

Also, in preperation for my christmas beer, I just made an experimentation
batch from a 2.2lb Can of Premeir (first time using it....it was cheap and
I got it from the local grocery store even...I just wanted to see if there
was a major difference between that and what I can get at my homebrew shop),
some orange peel, nutmeg, and cloves.  I made an xmas beer last year, it
wasn't bad, but it also wasn't what I wanted.. (and you know how picky those
homebrewers get when it doesn't taste the way they wanted it to...;-)  Anyone
have any favorite tricks of the trade for xmas brews?!

 - Dan Vachon   !att!druwa!dvac

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 08:27:44 -0700
From: cja@chmist.zso.dec.com
Subject: Pressure cooker

>> First a question:  My neighbor just got hold of a 5-gallon pressure cooker.
>> We wanted to use it for brewing (extracts and specialty grains).  Has anyone
>> out there in network land ever brewed this way?  Do you reduce boiling time
>> due to higher temperatures?  What about adding hops, etc.  Will the higher

I wouldn't do it.  Pressure cookers come with instructions that tell
you never to cook stuff that will foam up a lot. The foam can block
the pressure valve and cause a big boom if things get overheated.  As
we all know, the initial stage of boiling wort is about the foamiest
thing known to mankind.  If you think stories of exploding carboys are
bad, just wait until that aluminum grenade goes off on your stove.

However, pressure cookers are ideal for preparing sterile wort for
yeast propagation.  Boil the wort as normal in a different pot, then
pour into canning jars.  Screw on the lids loosely, then put them
in a few inches of water in the pressure cooker.  Pressure cook for
a while (I do 10 min.), then let the pot cool with the lid on.  When
you open the pot, screw down the lids on the jars,and you've got
sterile wort.
+-------------------------------+-------------------------------+
| Carl J. Appellof		|	cja@chmist.zso.dec.com	|
| Open Systems Group            |                               |
| Digital Equipment Corporation	|	This space for rent	|
| Bellevue, WA  		|				|
+-------------------------------+-------------------------------+


------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Oct 1992 11:38:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: "CBER::MRGATE::\"A1::RIDGELY\""@CBER.CBER.FDA.GOV
Subject: California Red and GABF

From:	NAME: Bill Ridgely
	FUNC: HFB-300
	TEL: FTS 402-1336                     <RIDGELY@A1@CBER>
To:	SMTP%"HOMEBREW@HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM"@MRGATE@WPC

          Chris McDermott writes:

          > On another note.  While I was on my honeymoon, I happened upon
          the Seabright Brewery in Santa Cruz CA.  One of their special brews
          was called Century Red and my wife, not being much of a hop-head,
          loved it's dark, sweet maltiness.  Has anyone out in HbD land tried
          this and if so could you help me make a guess at an all-grain
          recipe for it?  I tried to talk to the brewer, but he was at the
          GABF picking up his three, count 'em,  (1 gold, 2 silver) medals.
          While I only tried the Red, it sounds like they brew a good deal
          of quality ale there.<

          While at the GABF, I had the good fortune to run into Steve Parkes,
          an old friend and now brewmaster at the Humboldt Brewery in Arcata,
          CA. Along with other distinctive products, Humboldt brews a
          delightful beer called Red Nectar, very similar to the Century Red
          noted above. Steve is actively campaigning to have the style, which
          he calls "California Red", recognized as a distinct new beer
          category. Afficionados may note that many California breweries
          produce a similar beer, usually with the word "red" somewhere in
          the name.

          While the flavor profile of "California Red" is fairly complex, I
          find it quite simply to be a Maerzen-style beer brewed as an ale
          rather than a lager. I believe a fair proportion of Vienna malt is
          used in the grist, and a high mashing temperature brings out the
          residual sweetness. Ale yeast gives the beer its fruity
          characteristics. Original gravity is about 1.050.

          To make this beer, I recommend using a good basic
          Maerzen/Oktoberfest recipe and then substituting the traditional
          lager yeast with a somewhat low-attenuating ale yeast (such as
          Wyeast's German Ale).

          BTW, attendees at the GABF may remember me as the one with the
          "BURP" t-shirt pulling beers at the Humboldt booth on Saturday
          night. Sorry the Red Nectar ran out so quickly.

          On the subject of the GABF blind tasting, I would note that the
          beers are not judged using the 50-point AHA/HWBTA scale, simply
          because there is not enough time (and not enough judges - and, I
          suspect, not enough expertise) to provide this level of analysis
          for 700+ beers. Therefore, emphasis is on adherence to style and
          drinkability. Unfortunately, brewers are given no feedback as to
          how their beers are judged, and I personally feel that after
          selecting 18 medalists (count 'em!) in the American Lager, Light
          Lager, Premium Lager, Dry Lager, and Malt Liquor categories, these
          judges can easily be brain-damaged enough to let Jim Koch's Boston
          Stock Ale slip through as a classic example of Dusseldorf Alt!

          IMHO, the gold medal in Scottish Ales should have gone to Old
          Maclunk from the Boulder Creek Brewing Co. - a classic example of
          the 80-shilling export style.

          Bill Ridgely (ridgely@cber.cber.fda.gov)

------------------------------

Date: 15 Oct 1992 11:39:32 -0500
From: Chris McDermott <mcdermott@draper.com>
Subject: dry hop vs. end-of-boil

 dry hop vs. end-of-boil
A question:

A friend of mine, who has no net access, wants to know:

What will give a beer more hop aromatics, hopping at the end of the boil, or
dry-hopping with an equal amount?  Say hopping at the end of the boil means
steeping the hops for a few minutes after turning off the gas.

Thanks,

Chris

_
Christopher K. McDermott                  Internet:  mcdermott@draper.com
C.S. Draper Laboratory, Inc.              Voice:     (617) 258-2362
555 Technology Square                     FAX:       (617) 258-1131
Cambridge, MA 02149 (USA)




------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 09:37:00 PDT
From: rstya@map.mda.ca (Roy Styan)
Subject: I think I killed my yeast.

I am currently brewing a batch of cream ale.  It went through an 8 day
primary fermentation at 15C.  I racked to secondary and let it sit for
a couple of days to let the yeast build up before lagering.  I seems it
still had a lot of fermenting to do, as it built up a strong (for a secondary)
ferment.  Dispite all warnings from just about every source imaginable,
I just chucked the carboy into the fridge and let it cool down to about
1 deg. C.  The yeast were not happy.  I think I killed them.  There weres
no signs of life in there. I raised the temp. to 4 deg. C.  Still no sign of
life.  That was over a week ago.

What do you guys think? Should I repitch?  Raise the temp. back up to 15C and
try again? Ignore the probLem?

Roy.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 9:59:28 PDT
From: "John Cotterill" <johnc@hprpcd.rose.hp.com>
Subject: HBD 989?
Full-Name: "John Cotterill"

Could someone please e-mail HBD 989 to me, it got purged on my system by
accident.
Thanks,
JC
johnc@hprpcd.rose.hp.com

------------------------------

Date: Thursday, 15 Oct 1992 13:16:46 EDT
From: m14051@mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: what is am malt liquor? / beer vs ale etc.

>Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 9:48:49 CDT
>From: tony@spss.com (Tony Babinec)
>Subject: what is am malt liquor? / beer vs ale etc.

>U.S. law imposes certain labeling requirements on the commercial
>brewer.  A "beer" falls below the above cutoff, while an "ale"
>or "malt liquor" fall above.  Again, I invite someone with more
>knowledge of commercial brewing and the law to add to this.
>But, you'll notice, for example, that Old Foghorn labels have
>described it as "a barley wine-style ale." I'm guessing that
>they must call it an ale by law, and by describing it as a
>barley wine style, they are clueing us in as to its strength and
>style.

What the folks at Anchor told me was that most states require
anything labeled "beer" over a certain alcohol strength to also
be labeled "malt liquor".

So they get around these laws by not using the word "beer" on the
stronger brews.  Luckily they can use real beer terms, like "ale"
or "lager" or "barley wine" or "porter" and accurately describe
the product, while still getting around the "beer" laws.

Internet: jdecarlo@mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo@f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 10:30:19 PDT
From: rone@alpine.pen.tek.com (Ron Ezetta)
Subject: What is Bass Ale?

>To emulate Bass Ale, follow the pale ale guidelines and use British
>ingredients (malts or extracts, hops) and an appropriate ale yeast.
>Anyone have a recipe that is a bass ale knockoff?

  I've been experimenting with a recipe from the Cat's Meow - here's
  the latest.

	7 lbs 2-row (Infusion)
	1 lb  Dark Brown sugar
	1 lb  Crystal - 40L
	1 oz  Perle (60 minute boil) 7.6 HBU
	1 oz  Fuggles (30 minute boil) 5.3 alpha
	1 oz  Fuggles (15 minute boil) 5.3 alpha
	1/2 oz Willamette (seep)
	1/2 oz Willamette (dry hop)
	Wyeast #1028 British #2

  This recipe has taken on a "Northwest" style - that is, more
  hop flavor and aroma than the bottled, mishandled, product
  that we drink over here.  Folks from the UK have pointed out that
  I *really* don't know the true flavor of Bass.  I agree and look
  forward to hop (no pun) the Atlantic and try a couple of properly
  pulled pints.

  With that in mind - a closer approximation of Bass would replace
  the Willamette hops with the seeping of 1 oz Fuggles.

  Of all the experimenting, the biggest change came with the use
  of Wyeast #1028 which seems to give a more reasonable reproduction
  of Bass than my former stand-by, Whitbread dry.  The two yeasts,
  yield two very different beers.  The Wyeast #1028, produces a beer
  with more caramel and malt flavors.  While Whitbread dry, lets the
  hops come through with a vengeance.  Next time I plan to ferment
  using #1028 at ~65F degrees rather than the 72F of my last effort.

  I've made this beer using all-grain, and extract (Stienbart's
  American Light - which is suppose to be 100% 2-row), and have
  detected very little difference.

  This recipe, and its variations, have help enlighten me in the ways
  of hop schedules, fermentation temperatures, and yeasts.  I have
  more fun with this beer than any other.

 -Ron Ezetta-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 14:31:59 EDT
From: mcglew@sde.mdso.vf.ge.com (McGlew Raymond)
Subject: On-line homebrew tasting


The GEnie system has an on-line beer tasting every Sat night on their
 network with beers chosen ahead of time, ocasionally homebrews.  It
 is in their Food and Wine area.
As I work for GE, NOT GEnie, amended disclaimers apply.


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 14:50:19 EDT
From: "Joe McCauley" <mccauley_je@vnet.ibm.com>
Subject: BAA

Yesterday I heard a third-hand report of some difficulties they're having
at Beer Across America.  (For those of you who are not familiar with BAA,
it is a mail-order service you can "subscribe" to, in which every so
often (once a month?) they send you a six-pack of a beer from some
microbrewery (a different one each time) and a bill for something like
$12.95 including shipping.  While this may seem a bit expensive for a
six-pack of beer, it's worth it to many subscribers if most of the beers
are not available in their areas.)

The problem they're having is, you might say, one of being too successful
for their own good.  They've had so many respondents subscribe to the
service that the amount of beer they have to ship out each round has
gotten quite huge.  So huge that many smaller brewers, the ones they had
most hoped to give visibility to through the service, are unable to
produce a full shipment of beer for the BAA.  So the BAA sends out mostly
beers from the relatively larger microbreweries.

Although I am not currently a BAA subscriber, I like the idea and would
like to see it succeed.  Perhaps they could develop a system where they
don't send the same beer to every subscriber every month.

------------------------------

Date:     Thu, 15 Oct 92 15:12:44 EDT
From: "Peter J. Burke" (FSAC-PMD) <pburke@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  Flatulence, Why worry about it ?

There have been quite a few articles recently
about flatulence and beer drinking. Are people worried about
getting a gas attack from a fine homebrew ? Why worry ?
There is no greater pleasure in life than to kick
back after a fine stout or porter and let a few rip.
Not only will it clear your mind and bowels out,
it can also serve as an effective weapon against boorish
non-brewer types who's presense is not wanted.

Does anyone know of the type of brew that will create
the best farts ?  I know that porters and stouts
work for me. I would be willing to experiment with another
type if anyone knows of a good recipe.



------------------------------

Date:     Thu, 15 Oct 92 15:12:44 EDT
From: "Peter J. Burke" (FSAC-PMD) <pburke@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  Flatulence, Why worry about it ?

There have been quite a few articles recently
about flatulence and beer drinking. Are people worried about
getting a gas attack from a fine homebrew ? Why worry ?
There is no greater pleasure in life than to kick
back after a fine stout or porter and let a few rip.
Not only will it clear your mind and bowels out,
it can also serve as an effective weapon against boorish
non-brewer types who's presense is not wanted.

Does anyone know of the type of brew that will create
the best farts ?  I know that porters and stouts
work for me. I would be willing to experiment with another
type if anyone knows of a good recipe.



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 14:34 CDT
From: iepubj!korz@ihlpa.att.com
Subject: Alie oops.

I wrote:
>Perhaps, but this conflicts directly with Noonan's claim that if yeast
>is given a high-glucose environment, they shut down their maltose
>(di- and tri- saccharide, I mean) metabolism pathways in lieu of (as you
>said) the "easy sugars."  Noonan suggests that yeast raised in a high-glucose
>environment will take some time to re-start their di- and tri-saccharide
>pathways, resulting in longer lag times.
>
>However, Bob Jones has reported *no increase in lag times* from switching
>to sucrose starters and Micah gets 2 hour lag times (see below), so perhaps
>this is an error in Noonan's book?

Offline, Spencer pointed out that I goofed.  I guess I was rushing and got
cocky and sloppy.  Sucrose is, in fact, a di-saccharide (it is a glucose
and a fructose bonded together).  What I should have simply said was:

>Noonan's claim that if yeast is given a high-glucose environment, they
>shut down their maltose metabolism pathways in lieu of (as Micah said)
>the "easy sugars," glucose and fructose.

As I mentioned before, Bob Jones and Micah have, empirically, proven that
this may not be a big a deal as Noonan suggests.

Sorry for the goofup.
Al.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 17:00:37 -0600
From: hinkens@macc.wisc.edu
Subject: Re: Insulating my boiling pot?

My brew-friends and I brew 15 gallon batches of beer in an old stainless
steel half-barrel with the top cut off.  We have a Cajun Cooker, but as you
have probably read in the digest, it can consume a lot of propane during a
90 minute boil!

We discovered that if we simply wrap a sheet of heavy duty aluminum foil
around the brewpot, we capture a lot more heat from the flame.  We do not
wrap it tightly.  We use a piece of foil long enough to make it all the way
around the pot with about a foot extra.  We crunch the ends together (to
make a seam from top to bottom) and make it just tight enough to stay put.
We place it low enough to extend below the bottom of the pot.

I think this works so well because it creates a "chimney-effect" which
draws the hot air up the side of the vessel (between the foil and the keg).
 It works very well, we can really turn down the heat and maintain a very
rapid boil.

A method such as this could be adapted for stove top boils as well...

 -Jay


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:59:20 -0300
From: norman@octopus.wr.usgs.gov
Subject: polyclar

I have a small packet of polyclar that I'm thinking of using on a batch of
weat beer to control/eliminate chill haze.  Has anyone had any experience
with the stuff?  How much do you use?  When do you add it?  Does it work?
I heard that it's made of micro-particles of plastic -- is that true?

In need of clarification,

Norm Maher


------------------------------

Date: 15 Oct 1992 20:34:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: KLIGERMAN@herlvx.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: calcium chloride

In regard to the posting on the use of calcium chloride, I fail to see its value
in brewing since it would add twice as much chloride for each ion of calcium
added.  Since it is used as a dehydrating and dehumidifying agent, it would be
hard to get an accurate weight unless it was completely dry.  If I remember my
basic chemistry correctly, if the molecular weight of CaCl2 is 111, then for
every 111 mg/liter of CaCl2 added to 1 liter of water (assuming complete
solubility), you would obtain 40 ppm Ca++ and 71 ppm cl-.  It seems like adding
CaCO3 would be a better choice.  From Zymurgy vol.14 #5 p.30; one gram/gallon of
CaCO3 would give you 107 ppm Ca++ and 159 ppm CO3-- if completely dissolved.  If
I am wrong in my assumptions, please correct me.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 19:15 CDT
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Windbags


 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling

 >From: "Bob Jones" <bjones@novax.llnl.gov>
 Subject: Remarks from MICAH,MICAH,MICAH,MICAH !!!!!!!!

 >> I was referring to the optical transparency which I can appreciate and not
  >> the taste which I have trouble appreciating.

   >Jack, I counldn't resist this one. I, and most other homebrewers,
  while appreciating the appearance of our beers, even more appreciate
  the taste, with which (i hope) we have no trouble.

 Normally, I wouldn't bother responding to a rhetorical joke but this one is
 as devoid of humor as it is devoid of facts so I will use it as an
 opportunity to give a little sermon.

 It is the ribbon mongers and identity insecure that are hung up on
 appearance.  When did I ever write word one about the color of my beer?   In
 fact, it was all the certified experts that refused to accept my Generic Ale
 as a style and it drives them wild to this day.

 People whine incessantly here about the clarity or lack of in their beer but
 if I suggest that my first lager seems clearer than my past ales, I get a
 lecture relating to some previous discussion about "clean" beer.

 Now, you tell me that I am hung up on appearance.

 >Perhaps if you brewed  something other than the WGB or ARF the taste would
 be more to your liking and you wouldn't have to relie on appearances, after
 all they can be deceiving.

 How can you possibly suggest that I would make beer that I do not like?

 Finally, appreciating the subtile taste differences in beers is hardly in the
 same catagory as reconginzing optical transparency.  That fact that I am not
 capable of detecting many of the flavors or have a poor taste memory, is not
 to say that I therefore brew for clarity.  I would drink water if that were
 the case.

 On the other hand, I suspect the reason so much is made of the color of
 different styles is precisely because it is so much easier to learn to judge
 and most of the instant experts created by the judging program probably are
 capable of not much more.  I suspect it takes years if not decades to train
 the taster and most of the people who claim to be experts are just insecure
 windbags.

 js

ZZ


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 23:28:30 -0400
From: cook@uars.DNET.NASA.GOV (Chris Cook, NMOS Quality Engineer -
 (301)386-7807)
Subject: Small Batches

I've got a problem with my beer brewing, and I think it's a
problem many of you will have seen, too.

I've been brewing extract batches for years.  You're all familiar
with the standard, 5-gallon a batch brewing schedule I've been
following.  I've recently taken up all-grain; that's been fun
too, and after 5 batches, I'm even more interested in the
possibilities.

Here's the rub.  Recently we've all heard about the Belgian
malts, with names like Caravienne, Special B, Biscuit and such.
Sound interesting to you?  It does to me.  I want them, and I
want them badly.  I want to try a batch with 5# pilsner and 4#
Caravienne, just to see, or add significant amounts of Aromatic
malt to a batch and breath deeply over it, or try the wheat malt
with a little Munich, or maybe I should start with the Pale as
the base instead of the Pilsner.  Or, or, or.

Lots of possibilities.  Way too many.  My problem's simple
economics: I can't afford to become an alcoholic.  Sorry, but
it's just not in my budget.

These 5-gallon batches are fine for beers that I know I like, but
they're way too much for simple experimentation.  I already brew
too much beer that's technically good but uninteresting to me
personally.  To cut the risks of too much bad beer I've depended
on lots of recipes.  I have to thank people for the loan of their
expertise, but I want to find some of this stuff out for myself.
I want to try a batch with a little of that neat stuff, a little
more and finally with lots, but I don't want to take 3 years to
get rid of the stuff if I was wrong.

How have other people had this problem?  Seems like everyone
would.  I know that after years I've found recipes I like, but I
don't want to spend several more years just scratching the
surface of these new malts.  Patience, I seem to keep saying, is
not my long suit.

My first thought was to share like crazy.  Too expensive,
although very popular.  Then I thought about charging my costs
(pretty low) but the thought of that much brewing gives me hives.

The option that appeals to me more is to start brewing a lot of
experimental, 1-gallon batches.  Has anyone else worked this way?
I'm running blind here, and if anyone's worked out some of the
pitfalls, I'd love to hear them.  Do you just scale all the
ingredients by 5?  Doesn't seem like it'd be that easy, but
maybe.  Yeast pitching rates?  I figure to divide a Wyeast
package (using my standard starter) into 5 or more; any
complications or precautions are welcome.  Any obvious changes in
technique?  That seems relative unchanged, but who knows.  As an
aside, does anyone know a source for gallon glass bottles?  (Near
Washington, DC)

Mashing gets simpler, I guess, but all my stuff assumes at least
5 pounds of grain.  I expect the 44 quart cooler/lauter tun will
get cumbersome quickly, for example.  Jack, you're Easymash may
be the best bet.

The big question is simple.  Am I trading away quality by working
in such small batches?  Opinions are always welcome, and
experience even more so.  Dive on in.

As an aside, does anyone have a source for the Belgian malts on
the right coast?  Near DC, preferably, but the eastern seaboard
is close enough.  I'm trying to save shipping, and since they to
come in this way anyway, there should be someone east of Chicago
with the stuff.

I've gone on too long.  Talk at you later.

Chris Cook
cook@uars.dnet.nasa.gov

------------------------------


End of HOMEBREW Digest #992, 10/16/92
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Newsgroups: rec.crafts.textiles,alt.sewing