From: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Subject: U.S. Bill of Rights today (was alt.activism et al: Who's free'er)
Followup-To: alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.politics.usa.constitution
Reply-To: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 03:23:10 GMT

[followups directed to alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.politics.usa.constitution]

A repost from alt.activism,alt.individualism,alt.pagan:

From: adamsr@netcom.com (Rick Adams)
Subject: Re: Who's "free-er"? Intrnat'l response wanted!
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:54:32 GMT

Thus spake exukjb@exu.ericsson.se (ken bell): 

>Yeah, take a look at the UN's Declaration on Human Rights to see a specific 
>application of exceptive clauses in the specification of rights as a matter 
>of policy -- "Such-and-such a right [freedom of speech, etc]", it reads, "
>shall not be abridged, UNLESS.." the government deems it necessary in 
>order to establish law, order, peace...". 
>
>No, uh uh.  Give me the absolute guarantees in the Bill of Rights 
>without exceptive clauses anytime, because remember, the purpose of those 
>ammendments were to protect citizens' rights against encroachments from the 
>state, and with such absolute guarantees, any right can be abrogated in 
>the name of some ostensibly overriding good. "Let no more be heard of the 
>power of man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the 
>Constitution. (TJ)" I dunno, call me an extremist. 

	Really?

		AMENDMENT I:
	Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble,
and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

		REALITY I:
	Polygamy in the Mormon faith: Banned.
	Peyote use among the Native Americans: Banned.
	Satanic worship: Subjects the participants to potential sanctions
			 by the child protective services even if no laws
			 are violated.
	Religious influence on political structures: See the Republican
			 			     Platform.
	Establishment: Statement by the President (who is sworn to uphold
		       the Constitution) that atheists aren't citizens or
		       patriots; this is a Christian nation.
	Free Speech: Censorship of adult materials.

		AMENDMENT II:
	A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free
State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be
infringed.

		REALITY II:
	This right exists.

		AMENDMENT III:
	No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house,
without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be
prescribed by law.

		REALITY III:
	Emminent domain laws permit the Government to seize your property
and use it for any purpose they wish. They may not quarter soldiers in you
home WITH you, but they MAY evict you THEN quarter them.

		AMENDMENT IV:
	The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses,
papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not
be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported
by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be
searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

		REALITY IV:
	Possession of greater than $1000 in cash is sufficient grounds to
seize your money, being black is sufficient justification to stop someone
who is driving and search their car, an anonymous and unsubstantiated tip is
sufficient grounds to seize someone's home. Warrants are not needed and the
bruden of proof is on the individual not the government. Under the WoD
mentality, this Amendment has effectively ceased to exist.

		AMENDMENT V:
	No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise
infamous crime, unless on a presentment of indictment of a Grand Jury,
except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when
in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be
subject fot the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb;
nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself,
nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor shall private property be taken for public use without just
compensation.

		REALITY V:
	As in the previous case, the WoD with its seizures (with the
property going to the government WITHOUT just compensation OR due process),
as well as compulsory drug testing which violates the privacy rights of the
individual, if not the actual self-incrimination portions of the Amendment
render this one equally void.

		AMENDMENT VI:
	In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a
speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district
wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been
previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of
the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have
compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the
assistance of counsel for his defense.

		REALITY VI:
	Overworked and understaffed public defenders make a mockery of the
"assistance of counsel" clause as they make deals to expidite the process
rather than work for their client's defense. The Seizure laws violate the
clauses dealing with the right to confront witnesses (the state is not even
required to IDENTIFY the witnesses let alone produce them), the burden of
proof is on the individual to prove innocence rather than the state to
prove guilt, and the state has no obligation to provide counsel even if they
have seized all the assets of the individual. This one, too, is a thing of
the past.

		AMENDMENT VII:
	In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed
twenty dolars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact
tried by a jury shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the United
States than according to the rules of common law.

		REALITY VII:
	Still effectively exists.

		AMENDMENT VIII:
	Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

		REALITY VIII:
	In MI, simple possession of over a given quantity of a controlled
substance REQUIRES a manditory sentence of life WITHOUT PAROLE. There is no
lattitude for the judge, a homeless teenager carrying a package the contents
of which he or she does not know is as subject to the punishment as is a
crime boss who has ordered dozens of deaths to protect his or her territory.
Forfeiture laws impose enormous "fines" on minor offenders (an individual in
CA driving a $15K automobile and possessing  single marijuana seed faces
criminal penalties of a $100 fine yet their automobile may be seized and
sold. Other even more unjust examples are rampant. This Amendment, as well,
was nulified by the WoD.

		AMENDMENT IX:
	The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be
construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

		REALITY IX:
	Debatable, given current political trends. No clear demonstration as
to whether this Amendment does or does not remain valid exists.

		AMENDMENT X:
	The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution
nor prohibited by it to the States are reserved to the States respectively,
or to the people.

		REALITY X:
	The Federal government routinely demands that the states enforce
laws which the states do not choose to pass. Example: before it could enter
the union (despite meeting the criteria of the Constitition) Utah was forced
to pass laws against polygamy - in violation of the religious rights of the
majority religion. States which decriminalize or legalize marijuana still
are forced to enforce federal statutes concerning the substance. Many other
examples exist. This Amendment is _partly_ in effect.

	Absolute guarantees and protection of rights, you said?

	Where?

	Personally, I'm interested in seeing some direct responses to the
original thread - since if Bush wins my wife and I are giving serious
thought to emmigrating. Rights are too important to give away the way
Americans have been doing during the last decade.


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