From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Jordan >= Magic && Bird
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:37:43 GMT
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <1992Aug26.152443.5240@brtph560.bnr.ca> markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:
>The idea of this clip is to show that Jordan can dominate over any type
>of player in an offensive matchup.  If you don't like the Mel comparison,
>go back to the Bulls-NY playoff series when Jordan gets double-teamed on
>the baseline by Wilkins and Oakley (with Ewing watching from under the 
>basket).  Jordan looks like he gives up on the baseline and then whips
>by both plays headed toward the hoop with full head of steam.  Ewing comes
>out from under the basket to defend Jordan's attack and Jordan f*ck*ng
>dunks all over him.  Magic and Bird could *never* do this (and that goes 
>for the early 80's).  

No, Magic would have executed a behind the back pass to Bird who would have
hit the 3ptr with two Knicks in his face.

>
>>> Clip three:  Patrick Ewing gets the ball in the low post (some time during 
>>>     the mid-80's), turns around for one of his patented baseline jumpers, 
>>>     and has Jordan throw his shot into the stands.
>>
>>It's a good thing Magic never blocked any shots. He may have been worthy to
>>pray at the Jordan statue they will surely put to cover up his square foot
>>of wall space at the HOF. And I suppose they should get another one to cover
>>up the meager space Bird will get too.
>
>This clip was to make a statement about Jordan's defense prowess.  Something
>that both Magic and Bird (ESPECIALLY BIRD!!!!!) can't hold a candle to.

Well, Jordan is by far the better individual defender, but your repeated 
comments about Bird's defense are a little off.  Bird was a 3 time NBA 
Defensive 2nd teamer.  He has been one of the leagues best defensive 
rebounder and was a master at "help" defense.  He was able to get a fairly
large number of steals each year (about 1.7 steals a game).  It is true that
as the years progressed, especially the last few, he was suspect, especially
in one-on-one, isolation .
>
>Once again, for the hard of reading, I wasn't saying that Bird wasn't
>a good 3pt artist, just that 3pts are another facet of Jordan's game.

Jordan has never been much of a 3pt threat, only averaging about 28% for his
career (as opposed to Bird's career 37%), while taking about 1/2 as many per
game as Bird.  The fact that he had an unbelievable night doesn't mean much
in the overall picture.

>
>I'll tell you why Jordan I think Jordan is better than Bird...it's because
>Jordan simply has no weakness.  Bird can't play defense, which is SERIOUS
>liability in my opinion.  He is just so DAMNED good on offense, he forces
>himself to be on my top-3 list:
>   1. Jordan
>   2. Magic
>   3. Bird

Bird has been known to be a great team defensive player, though not a good
one-on-one defender.  You want Jordan's weaknesses???  3pt shooting for one.
>
>As for who gets the edge where, my vote goes like this..
>
>Scoring:              Jordan (Bird's a scorer, too)
>Shooting:             Bird (Magic and Jordan are shooters, too)
>Passing:              Magic (Jordan and Bird can pass, too)
>Rebounding:           Bird (Magic and Jordan can rebound, too)
>Playmaking(team):     Magic (Bird is a team playmaker, too)
>Playmaking(individ):  Jordan (Magic is an individ playmaker, too)

Well, if I were to list things like above, it would be 
Scoring:  Jordan, Bird, Magic	(Jordan is the better pure scorer)
Shooting: Bird, Jordan, Magic	(Bird is the better pure shooter)
Passing:  Magic, Bird, Jordan	(Magic is the best, but Bird is pretty close)
Rebounding:Bird, Magic, Jordan	(Bird is a great defensive rebounder)
Playmaking(team): Magic, Bird, Jordan(Magic, but Bird is very close)
Playmaking(indiv): Jordan, Bird, Magic(Jordan, only due his ability to make his
				own plays, but Bird close behind, due to his
				ability to draw the defense out and open things
				up for others)
Hustle:   Bird, Magic Jordan	(Bird by a large margin)
Defense:  Jordan, Bird, Magic	(Jordan by a big margin)

One thing I note in the list is that Bird is the best in 3 categories, and 
2nd in 5 othes (of 8), where Jordan is the best in 3 categories, 2nd in 1,
and 3rd in 4 categories.  And, Bird is the best in Shooting and Rebounding
(as well as hustle), while Jordan is the best at scoring and defense
(as well as indiv. playmaking, which leads to scoring).  Bird is the better
at teamplaymaking & passing.  This is why if someone were to ask who was the
better individual player, I would say Bird.  Not only was he damn good on his
own right, he made others so much better.  Jordan was very good in his own
right, and made others better, but not to the degree Bird did.
>
>(*flame retardant suit on*)
>
>Defense:              Jordan (Magic is fair, Bird flat out sucks)
>Elevating Teammates:  Jordan/Bird/Magic (Bird with 3 Championships on teams
>                      with a pretty high average of talent, Magic with 5 
>                      Championships with the *highest* average of talent, 
>                      and Jordan with 2 Championships ***SO FAR*** with a 
>                      decent average of talent on the team)
How about Bird taking a team that won less than 30 games one season, and 
putting them up around the 60 game mark, in his first season, with the same
teammates.  
-- 
David T. Meeks                    ||" We are jigsaw pieces, aligned on the 
VMark Software, Inc.              ||  perimeter edge, 
uvmark!davem@merk.com             ||  interlocked through a missing piece"
davem%uvmark@merk.com             ||" ...This world is totally Fugazi"