HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna,soc.culture.croatia,news.admin.policy
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Paying lip service is not enough.
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 17:51:00 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1992Dec27.090834.13864@muddcs.claremont.edu> irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu (Josh Smith) writes:

>In the Journal of the Armenian Nuclear Medical Association, October, 1992,
>on page pi, Harry L. Dinglethwat writes:
>"Serdar Argic...may not be reading news.admin.policy."

I guess every absurdity has a champion to defend it.

>Is that a good enough made up source, or am I still a Nazi baby-killer
>because I refuse to whittle a turnip into the shape of a thingy? Nonsense,
>all of this is nonsense!

All your comments to the contrary, this point has not been addressed
properly. Speaking of Armenian sources, though,...


Source: "Men Are Like That" by Leonard Ramsden Hartill. The Bobbs-Merrill
Company, Indianapolis (1926). (305 pages). 
(Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the genocide of 2.5 
 million Muslim people)

p. 203 (second paragraph).

"One evening I passed through what had been a Tartar village. Among the 
 ruins a fire was burning. I went to the fire and saw seated about
 it a group of soldiers. Among them were two Tartar girls, mere children.
 The girls were crouched on the ground, crying softly with suppressed
 sobs. Lying scattered over the ground were broken household utensils and
 other furnishings of Tartar peasant homes. There were also bodies of the
 dead."

p. 204 (first paragraph).

"I was soon asleep. In the night I was awakened by the persistent crying of
 a child. I arose and went to investigate. A full moon enabled me to make
 my way about and revealed to me all the wreck and litter of the tragedy
 that had been enacted. Guided by the child's crying, I entered the yard of
 a house, which I judged from its appearance must have been the home of a
 Turkish family. There in a corner of the yard I found a women dead. Her
 throat had been cut. Lying on her breast was a small child, a girl about a
 year old."

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: henry@bms.com (Henry Mednikoff)
Subject: Re: The Hadith about Muslims killing the J
Reply-To: henry@bms.com
Organization: Bristol-Myers Squibb PRI
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 16:37:58 GMT

In article 966@cbfsb.cb.att.com, mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (Mazen Mokhtar) writes:
>Eric S. Perlman writes:
>
>>The situation of Palestinians may not be the best,
>
>  That is for sure.
>
>>but if you want to use the comparison then answer me these questions: where
>>are the gas chambers?
>
>  Instead, we have people burried alive by buldozers and houses of people who
>are not even suspect destroyed. People are expelled out of their country and
>their land and property is given to foreigners.
>
>> where are the concentration camps?
>
>  In the Negev desert among other places are camps where innocent people are
>incarcerated for extended periods of time without even a charge. They are
>subjected to torture from which they frequently die.
>
>>>  I am a semite an I am not biased against Jews. I am only an opponent of
>>>oppression. This position offends many, but that has not detered me.
>
>>Look "anti-semite" up in the dictionary.  Not "semite."  English as a
>>language isn't always consistent, and the fact is that whether you like
>>it or not the word "anti-semite" does not mean "against all semites".
>>It specifically denotes hatred of Jews.
>
>  Reread my sentence above and it will be clear that I understand. Furthermore,
>if the English language only includes jews as targets of anti-semitism, then
>it should be changed by better usage of the word.
>
>>>  This subject is certainly debatable. After all, both of them are based on
>>>the assumption that a certain nationality is "chosen" or better than the rest.
>
>>No, they're not.  Zionism certainly isn't.  I defy you to prove this.
>>Indeed, Herzl wasn't even religious.  Neither was Weizmann.  Or the vast
>>majority of the founders of Zionism.
>
>  Actually, most of them were atheist or borderline atheist. However, they
>still felt that Israel should belong to the members of the so called Jewish
>nation. Israel does not revolve around the ideas of the Jewish religion (I
>wish), Israel revolves around the idea of the Jewish people. The result
>is racist at best.
>
>
>Mazen Mokhtar


There is no "..so called Jewish nation" - there is Jewish Nation, Mazen.
I noticed that you get irritated that Jews exist..
There are 4.000.000 Jews in Israel - a lot of irritation, HMMMM...?
What are you going to do about it ?
  

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:23849 soc.culture.greek:11716 soc.culture.europe:10671 soc.rights.human:4622
From: maler@pelvoux.imag.fr (Oded Maler)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: israel
Date: 29 Dec 92 15:05:43 GMT
Distribution: talk
Organization: IMAG Institute, University of Grenoble, France

In article <1992Dec28.015455.6720@netcom.com>, zmbenhal@netcom.com (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim) writes:

|> 
|> I don't see why there should be any refugees. The ones who want to leave can
|> go back the same countries they came from. Natives need not go anywhere, they
|> should have the same rights as everybody else.

Most of the natives (including myself) were so spoiled with the rights
they had there (namely, the common civil rights that you probably
have at the US and other western countries) so that they will not agree
to regress to the level of human rights that will exist in the realization
of the utopian pouplar-secular-democratic you suggest.

|> Zeyd

-- 
===============================================================
Oded Maler, LGI-IMAG (Campus), B.P. 53x, 38041 Grenoble, France
Phone:  76635846  Fax: 76446675   e-mail: maler@vercors.imag.fr
===============================================================
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: What About Leabanon?
Date: 26 Dec 1992 16:50:19 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


   Has there been some sort of explanation for Lebanon's refusals
to either help the deportees, or even allow the Red Cross to help
them?
   
   Considering why Israel claims to have booted them in the first
place, it seems idiotic to turn to the country that has chosen to
not have anything to do with them, and expect this country to now
reach out a helping hand to people who have sworn to kill Jews in
all of Israel, and to do anything possible to disrupt all efforts
to find a peaceful settlement with Israel.  

   Lebanon is an Arabic country.  The deportees are Arab brothers
in need.  Lebanon as refused to allow them to enter Lebanon.  The
Lebanese government has stated that these Arabs are not Lebanon's
problem.  Not only that, Lebanon has PROHIBITED any relief effort
to get to these men from Lebanon.

  Numerous Israel bashers like to cite extremeists like Kahane as
having significant influence on the direction of Israeli politics
today.  While his political ideas were digusting and bigoted, the
actual amount of political influence that the man wielded, at the
peak of his influence, was miniscule.  And today it is simply the
battle cry of the noisy but inaffectual radical right.  Imagine a
faction in Israel with the views of Kahane, but also numerous and
violent.  This is what Israel is being confronted with.  

   The Covenant ot the Islamic Resistance Movement is perhaps the
single most racist document that has been penned in modern times.
And what is even worse is that the calls to do whatever necessary
to eliminate the peace process, and to kill Jews, are being sworn
to by thousands of fundamentalist fanatics.  If the peace process
ends, they will have achieved one of their goals.  When you see a
person like Hanan Ashwari on television, you are seeing something
very different than what Israel is facing in these extremists.  A
person such as Ashwari is a moderate who is seriously endeavoring
to find the common ground(?) with Israel.  These fanatics are her
adversary in the peace process as much as Israel is, if not more.

   And when looking at Lebanon's refusal to deal with these guys,
one might just find a hint as to what these deportees really are.

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24254 soc.culture.arabic:5996
From: cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Deportee Mistaken Identity Follow Up
Date: 28 Dec 1992 20:53:52 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu



>The New York Times, Dec 28, 1992

>"The Israeli newspaper Haaretz, citing army officials, said today
> that 6 of the 415 deportees were victims of mistaken identity and
> should not have been exiled.

That's how fair the trials were.  It makes me wonder whether there
were any at all.

> Oded Ben-Ami, a spokesman for the Defense Ministry, said that he
> was not aware of any "mistakes" in the deportation process, but
> that the families of the deportees could raise appeals.

"Families of the deportees could raise appeals".  Families can't even
get out of their homes to file for an appeal.  Curfews were and are being
imposed on the territories for more than two weeks.  I don't doubt if
some of these families don't know if their relatives are among these
deportees.  Plus, appeal for what?  As someone put it they haven't even
been convicted.

I heard they are going to return these 6 listening to fresh news.  The
question is how?, are they going to abduct them as they did to Sh. Obied,
since they are not allowing any supplies or even the UN envoy to enter
thru the so-called security zone?  The funnier one is "Are they going
to replace them by the new correct ones?"

Is it "the new world order" -or- "the law of the jungle"?
-- 
                  ___________________ cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu _____________
                 (______   _  |   _  |_
_____ H A M Z A ________) |-| |_ |-| | |
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Deportation vs. Murder
Date: 31 Dec 92 08:34:20 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Dec27.164331.20245@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il> fedimit@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il (Dan Nabutovsky) writes:
>
>   All 1600 people were members of HAMAS, which is responsible
>for killing that man. Being member of a terroristic organisation
>is a crime.

Ah, so when do you recognize that Israel's forefathers have
committed the biggest CRIME in history?

Anisa
	"By Way Of Deception Thou Shalt Do War"
				Mossad

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: Palestinian deportees turned back by Lebanese
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 01:39:40 GMT

Not only have the Lebanese bowed to their Syrian overlords to have
their brethren languish in Southern Lebanon, thus scoring propaganda
points against Israel, and prevented the Red Cross from bringing them
supplies through Lebanese territory, but they've now even removed some
Arabs from hospitals to live in those tents without medical care.

Maybe they figure that all those terrorist physicians can give them
better medical care in the tents than their regular doctors can in
their hospitals?
-- 
Alan H. Stein   -----  AJIN   -----  astein@israel.nysernet.org
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: maler@pelvoux.imag.fr (Oded Maler)
Subject: Re: nazi beer gardens
Organization: IMAG Institute, University of Grenoble, France
Distribution: talk
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:00:53 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.1777.21450@channel1>, "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:
...
|> I think that all groups should be
|> given unlimited scope to make fools of themselves so long as they
|> do not violate the rights of others.
|> 

Your postings are consistent with your principles.


Regards, 

-- 
===============================================================
Oded Maler, LGI-IMAG (Campus), B.P. 53x, 38041 Grenoble, France
Phone:  76635846  Fax: 76446675   e-mail: maler@vercors.imag.fr
===============================================================
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Re: Sgt-Mgr Nissim Toledano found murdered
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 15:58:23 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.201343.7055@nysernet.org>, astein@nysernet.org
(Alan Stein) writes:
> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
> 
> >> His death is on Israel's hands.  Israel did not want to exchange him
> >> for Sheikh Ahmed (who is paralyzed and going blind, which is, I presume,
> >> very humanitarian on Israel's part).
> 
> He was murdered without attempting any negotiations with Israel.
>  
> > A member of Hamas was interviewed on BBC about a
> >week ago. When asked whether he was opposed to peace with Israel, he
> >answered [I am liberally paraphrasing the response] that it was not
> >peace that they were seeking to oppose but that peace talks without a
> >show of commitment by Israel to reach a settlement was an act in futility.
> 
> In other words, he might be willing to negotiate if Israel totally
> capitulated in advance.

No, it is more like going to buy a car and the salesman wants to sell
you one particular car. You would both like to be satisfied but why
should you bargain if the car which the man wants to sell does not suit
you. For example, you know that Israel is not offering either equal
citizenship or a separate state, only "peace" whatever that is. Why
bother unless you know what you are bargaining toward. By the way, there
are certain things that any country has an obligation to grant merely
out of a respect for human rights; those matters require no bargaining.
It is as if one withheld food from a starving man simply to be able to
sell it to him for a better price.

> The purpose of negotiations is to bridge differences and reach an
> agreement both sides can live with.  That's impossible to do if one
> side insists on total capitulation in advance.

I think that quite a large number of Palestinians are coming to the
conclusion that that is exactly what Israel is demanding; capitulation
in advance. 

> >What are the intentions of the Israeli government? What do Israelis
> >want?
> 
> Israel wants to live in peace with its neighbors.
> 
> A more appropriate question is what do Israel's neighbors, and the
> Palestinian Arabs, want?  They've made that perfectly clear:  the
> total destruction of Israel.
> -- 
> Alan H. Stein   -----  AJIN   -----  astein@israel.nysernet.org

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:23985 talk.politics.soviet:9943 soc.culture.greek:11819 soc.culture.europe:10750 soc.history:10348 soc.culture.soviet:11491
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Jihad is self-defence
Date: 31 Dec 92 08:28:03 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Dec27.152024.19584@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il> fedimit@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il (Dan Nabutovsky) writes:
>>   Jihad is self defense.
>
>War is peace.
>2*2 is sometimes 3 and sometimes 5.

And sometimes your type of logic tries to undermine the
true understanding of such terms, and only because you
fail to realize it.

Anisa

	"Open your heart - showing the anger and pain
	 - so you heal."  [Shaking the Tree]
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: real fascism
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Distribution: talk
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 19:39:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.1777.21526@channel1> "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:

>Oh lord, I didn't answer Kaufman's message because it was too
>ridiculous for words.

The first lines of your posting explain why I, for one, have not
bothered to respond to most of your previous postings.  I just hope
that most readers here are clever enough not to fall for your
rantings.  Thanks for explaining it all to us.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24601 talk.politics.soviet:10199 soc.culture.greek:12014 soc.culture.europe:10986 soc.history:10513
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: huh?
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 22:49:13 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1ho60vINNfj8@network.ucsd.edu> dharkins@papillon.ucsd.edu (Dan Harkins) writes:

>> [ LONG list of names, relations and causes of death deleted ]
>> List of persons attacked by Armenian gangs:
>>
>>  (a long list)

>WHAT? Come on Mutlu, this was a 283 line post! If that's not a long
>then let's see one that is or are you just making this stuff up?

"Mutlu"? Anyway, you are not sticking to the original question.

Source: Documents: Volume I (1919).
        "Document No: 88," Archive No: 1/2, Cabin No: 113, Drawer 
        No: 3, File No: 527, Section No: 732(2057), Contents No: 26-7.
        (To the Ottoman Army Acting Supreme Command - 9th Army Commander
        Sevki)

"For 4-5 months, Armenians in Erivan, Karabag and Nahcivan have been 
 committing all kinds of cruelties on the Moslem population. Particularly
 in Erivan and Karabag, the Armenians have annihilated the Moslem 
 population by massacres, plunders and by forcing them to leave. Up-to-date,
 thousands of Moslem families, have been forced to flee for their lives
 in starvation to the Kars region. Those who could not flee or migrate
 were annihilated. Files, documents and reports on this matter have been
 from time to time submitted to the Supreme Command.

 The Gang Leader named Antranik, who has directed the Armenian policy
 of cruelty and brutality, has so far shed the blood of hundreds of
 thousands of people. Also destroyed all the houses, still continuing
 the same destruction in Karabag."
          
Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:23805 soc.rights.human:4608
From: eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.rights.human
Subject: Re: Israeli Expulsion of 418 Palestinians
Date: 21 Dec 92 15:18:16 GMT
	<EGGERTJ.92Dec20220240@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu>
	<1992Dec21.141015.9393@ennews.eas.asu.edu>
Reply-To: eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu
Organization: MIT Lincoln Lab - Group 41

In article <1992Dec21.141015.9393@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>   # What's wrong with you?  Can't you tell right from wrong?  Rounding up
>   # and deporting innocents is wrong.  Even if it seems expedient, it is
>   # still wrong.
>
>	   These people are sworn to destroy Israel.  And if deporting them
>   makes Israel more secure (I am not claiming here that id does or does
>   not), and protestc all of its citizens (Jews and Arabs) than the only
>   wrong thing is that not enough were deported.
>
>	   Any government's primary mission is to its citizens first, and
>   than any international obligations (including international law)
>   second.

But Israel in its deportations is not following your requirements, it
is not putting its citizens first.  It is putting its governmental
structure first, and its subjects a distant second.
--
=Jim  eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:23786 soc.culture.arabic:5793
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: The Hadith about Muslims killing the Jews / Hamas vs. Sunnah
Date: 20 Dec 92 08:41:59 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <1992Dec17.162523.17535@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (Mazen Mokhtar) writes:

>In article <1992Dec16.013422.2042@cirrus.com> chrism@cirrus.com
> (Chris Metcalfe) writes:

(Chris Metcalfe):
>>Because HAMAS is telling its people that they are justified by Islam
>>to do what they are doing.  It is a terrible thing to mislead people
>>religiously, especially when you are asking them to take blood onto
>>their hands...
>> In my opinion, HAMAS operates outside the Sharia.
>
>(Mazen Mokhtar):
>  Sure, but Hamas is not misleading people. They _are_ justified to do what
>they are doing. This is armed resistance against an oppressor...
>  So you want to teach us our religion now?
>
In this case I must support Mazen . A basic Islamic principle is

        DEIN MOHAMED B'SEIF

Dein       law of
Mohamed    Mohamed
B'seif     With a sword

The principle mean: You should distribute the Islamic faith by killing
those who refuse accepting it.
So the Hamas operations , like the PLO ones, and the democratic front
for fredom ones and the ... are all justified from Islamic point of
view.
 The American point of view considers the Arabs to be just some kind of
primitive persons , like all non western people, who actualy behave
against their real humman aspirations .
Human aspiration, according to the american naive thought are , as a
nature law, identical with the ideas written in the American
constitution including the corrections done through years !)
When Mazan lies and write that he support the Hamas criminals because
"This is armed resistance against an oppressor..." he is right too (
from Islamic point of view).
 Writing the truth that whole situation is the outcome of the arabian
fail to destroy the Jewish state on 1948 , 1967 and 1973 will not
serve hisaim - anohiliting the non-Islamic world , so he is using
western terminology " resistance against an oppressor".
One who justify killing as a way for convincing peiople will
defenitely use the more gentle trick of laying for that same purpose.

 An arabian old say: " acontract is nothing but an ink on a paper".

We shell overcome    Gideon Ehrlich

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24535 talk.politics.soviet:10152 soc.culture.greek:11990 soc.culture.europe:10951 soc.history:10485 soc.culture.soviet:11740 soc.culture.turkish:13737