HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tomh@wes.on.ca (Tom Haapanen)
Subject: Re: F1 HP quoted by Bruno Melli
Organization: Waterloo Engineering Software
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1992 14:54:09 GMT

> tvp53202@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Toby Vaughn Padfield) writes...
>> I am responding to the horsepower figures quoted by Bruno Melli. He
>> said that a Ford (Cosworth) DFR made between 615-625hp while the Ford HB
>> V-8 only made 620. I have a hard time believing that the Ford HB V-8 makes
>> less power than the older DFV [...] It was usually competetive with the
>> Honda or Ferrari last year ( OK, it wasn't quite as powerful, but not that
>> far off) and certainly a great deal better than the Lamborghini V-12,  
>> Yamaha V-12, Ilmor V-10, both of John Judd's iterations, and most definitely
>> the customer DFR! 

b790zcd@utarlg.uta.edu (George M. Smiley) writes:
> Last years Honda RA 121E made 780 bhp at 14,800 rpm.
> Last years Renault RS3 made 770 bhp at 14,440 rpm.
> Last years Ferrari made 760 bhp at 14,600 rpm.
> Last years Ford HB made 730 bhp at 13,500 rpm.
> Last years Yamaha ox99 made 700 bhp at 12,000 rpm.
> Last years Lamborghini 3512 made 700 bhp at 13,800 rpm.
> Last years Judd EV made 640 bhp at 11,750 rpm.
> Last years Ford DFR made 620 bhp at 11,250 rpm.

My numbers (from Autocourse, with Maurice Hamilton, Joe Saward and others)
for last year look a little bit different.  Here's what I have:
	Honda RA121E	V12	780 @ 14,800
	Renault RS3B	V10	770 @ 14,200
	Ford HB		V8	730 @ 13,500
	Judd GV		V10	710
	Yamaha OX99	V12	700+
	Lamborghini3512	V12	700 @ 13,800
	Porsche		V12	650 @ 12,000
	Judd EV		V8	640+@ 11,750
	Cosworth DFR	V8	620 @ 11,250
Yes, the HB is quite impressive (and remember, too, that it's much smaller
and lighter than the Renault or either of the Honda engines (V10 or V12),
allowing for better weight distribution and a more compact chassis).  What
impresses me the most, though, is the amazing Judd GV: John Judd was able
to develop this good an engine (and it did well in the Dallara last year)
without any outside financing.  Both Cosworth and Ilmor had a paying customer
for their engines, but John Judd did it all on his own.  Way to go!  

[ \tom haapanen    "i don't even know what street canada is on" -- al capone ]
[ tomh@wes.on.ca                   "trust the programmer" -- ansi c standard ]
[ waterloo engineering software      "to thine own self be true" -- polonius ]
From: smiley@sugaree.uu.net
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: GIF's of NASCAR
Date: 9 Apr 92 14:32:28 GMT
Organization: IKEA US, Phila PA

Hey NASCAR fans!!! We just got a color scanner here at work and it is great.
While we are still learning how to use it (We made a Bill Elliott picture at
300 % resolution and it ended up just under 1 meg in size and needed a 25 inch
screen to display the thing!!), but we are starting to get some cool pictures.
It is great to boot up windows and be greated by the 1992 Winston Cup Champ ;-)
 My questions are...
Anyone have simple instructions on converting these things so they can be
uploaded to the net. I will probably be putting them on compuserve since the
pictures there really s*ck.
  2ndly, what should we do next? I brought in some of the PRO_LINE race cards
from last year that have great pictures on them. Is this legal to repost parts
of them? (sorry, I am a computer person not a legal expert).Anyone have
something they want? I will do NASCAR or NHRA pictures. (sorry open wheel fans)

-- 
The opinion's expressed are just this person's verbal ramblings.
Robert W. Smiley        Systems Support Manager         IKEA U.S. Services
From: glenn@gla-aux.uucp (Glenn Austin)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Full Course Yellows in F1 Was Re: Mclaren Throttle/Ron Dennis
Date: 8 Apr 92 00:06:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: gla-aux.1CE00001.0eu8q4
Reply-To: glenn%gla-aux.uucp@skinner.cs.uoregon.edu
Organization: The Pit Lane
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v4


In article <1992Apr7.182613.26802@sequent.com> (rec.autos.sport), dafuller@sequent.com writes:
> Don't forget that one of the reasons the IndyCars go full course quickly
> is due to the Andretti axis, where Mario plowed into a safety truck and
> Micheal crashed soon thereafter.  Even though the yellow was displayed and
> the corner workers motioning INSIDE, INSIDE.  Fittipaldi, Sullivan, et al
> didn't seem to have any problems negotiating the incident; so now IndyCar
> goes full course at the drop of a hat.

I noticed that in cleaning up that incident, they took Michael's car out
the *OUTSIDE* of that turn, so there was really no real reason to have the
truck on the line.

Not to defend the Andrettis, but I do think that that was a poor call all
around...

===============================================================================
| Glenn L. Austin                | "Turn too soon, run out of room.           |
| Macintosh Wizard and           |    Turn too late, much better fate."       |
| Auto Racing Driver             |   -- Jim Russell Racing School Instructors |
| Usenet:  glenn@gla-aux.uucp or glenn%gla-aux.uucp@skinner.cs.uoregon.edu    |
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: uk09365@nx02.mik.uky.edu (robert i kesten)
Subject: Race promotion questions
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 13:43:10 GMT
X-Bytes: 

This may sound (and be) overly ambitious; but some racing enthusiasts on  
the local net are wondering what is involved in promoting a street circuit  
race.  We realize that major sanctions (IndyCars, IMSA GTP) are hard to  
come by.  We were thinking of an SCCA pro/am event (like the Ruan GP in  
Des Moines, IA; if I am thinking of the right race.  This seems to run  
quite well and be profitable from the little I know.)  We are also talking  
about temporarily converting one of the local airport runways to a  
dragstrip and hosting an NHRA National.

The local market (population and TV) is at the bottom end of the top 75  
with approx. 350,000 people in Lexington and surrounding areas.  The  
Louisville/S.Indiana and Cincinatti/N.Kentucky markets are larger but  
because both are w/i approx. 1 hour drive of Lexington the central  
location here might be ideal.  The motorsports options currently available  
in the area are limited autocrossing and TSD rallying.  A few dirt ovals  
operate in the rural areas (all at least 1/2 hour drive away).  TV  
rankings for televised races (NASCAR, CART) are comparable to national  
figures.

We are thinking of forming a campus motorsports club (possibly an SCCA  
affiliate?) and preparing a mailing to the Chamber of Commerce and other  
civic and business groups encouraging them to take the possibility of a  
race promotion under consideration.  We want to hear from people who have  
been involved (at any and all levels) in street and / or airport circuit  
races.  Tell about your experiences, problems, shortcuts, recommendations,  
etc.

Post or send e-mail  (I will also send my s-mail addr. if needed)

RIK
From: unglenie@author.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Pace cars in F1..
Date: 11 Apr 92 01:08:16 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Apr7.183436.330@vaxsar.vassar.edu> altsourinaki@vaxsar.vassar.edu writes:
>I heard during the GP of Brazil that FOCA (the manufacturers' federation)
>discussed introducing pace cars in F1 racing to make it more interesting.Can
>anybody briefly explain what is the exact function of pace cars in Indy racing
>or in other races where they are used??
>
>thanks,
>
>Alex Tsourinakis

Well, from the CART Indy Car Rule Book:

6.9.1.  During a full track yellow, a pace car (safety car) will be directed 
  on to the racing surface.  The purpose of this vehicle is to pace and direct
  the field until such time as the track has been determined fit to resume
  competition.

Another benefit of the pace car system is flying starts.  I'd hate to think
of what the front straight at Indy would look like if they had standing starts.
It's just a little too narrow with no run-off areas for that.......

Rob U, pace cars are there to improve safety (read: safety cars)
--
-  Rob Unglenieks           |   "Half of us are dumb,                  -
-  unglenie@ecn.purdue.edu  |    the other half are just stupid."      -
-  (too busy grad student)  |                            - Rob U       -
Hi! I'm a .signature virus!  Add me to your .signature and join in the fun!
From: mcculley@racy.zko.dec.com (Bruce McCulley)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1: more on fuel
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:38:52 GMT
Reply-To: mcculley@racy.zko.dec.com (Bruce McCulley)
Distribution: na
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Apr6.010113.23609@sequent.com>, dafuller@sequent.com writes:
 
|> In article <30037@cbmvax.commodore.com>
 jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup) writes:
|> >>The article in the January Road & Track on "Cart vs. F1" listed these specs
|> >>for F1 fuel:
|> >>                    no pre-cooling of fuel
|> >
|> >	An amusing rules hack idea (that undoubtably would be banned after
|> >it was discoverded):  It says no _pre_-cooling of fuel.  Does that mean that
|> >the cars could have a cooler they run during the warmup lap? (they might have
|> >to rename that...)  Or for that matter during the race?  Or does "pre" refer
|> >to before mixing with air?
|> 
|> It is so you don't freeze the fuel before loading it, which fractionally
|> reduces its volume so you can pack more in.  

It also produces slightly more power, I believe that is because there are 
beneficial effects due to charge cooling from fuel vaporization.  Thus
pre-cooling benefits both maximum fuel load and engine power.  Cooling
during the warm-up (?!?) lap would not benefit fuel load but might help
engine power, the question is whether the cost would be worth it.  My 
gut feeling is that it would not be...

--bruce
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: b790zcd@utarlg.uta.edu (George M. Smiley)
Subject: Re: F1: Piquet
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 02:42:00 GMT

In article <thos.702513817@suite.sw.oz.au>, thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen) writes...
>In <1992Apr2.153632.2921@fs7.ece.cmu.edu> mayor@bayes.ece.cmu.edu (Gilberto S. Mayor) writes:
> 
>>>Would you prefer to watch someone winning races or winning a championship?
>>>I'd rather watch a driver like Gilles Villeneuve trying to win each and 
>>>every lap, than someone like Piquet, content to collect championship 
>>>points for second or third places.
> 
>>I can not agree with you. What is the goal of F1 ? Obviously it is win the
>>championship. Every sport has its own rules. If points were given to the
> 
>As Stirling Moss put it "you may drive fast, you may even win races but 
>unless you take every corner as fast as you can, you're not a racing
>driver" (quote necessarily mangled by memory.)
> 
>>Gilberto
>-- 
>thos cohen  				       |Softway Pty Ltd

Yeah, but, Stirling Moss never won a chapionship, so I guess that makes
him a poor source of quote.

George.
From: mitch@dc49.dc (Mitch Sako)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Full Course Yellows in F1 Was Re: Mclaren Throttle/Ron Dennis
Date: 13 Apr 92 18:13:55 GMT
Reply-To: mitch@dc49.dc
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation

In article 5214@gdr.bath.ac.uk, bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Henry) writes:
>I think that F1 could well learn from the IndyCar scene and introduce
>full course yellows.  F1 usually has a lot of cranes to clear cars and
>from the track, at considerable expense.  Thats why there are fewer
>interruptions to the racing.  If there isn't enough time to clear the 
>wreckage, the race is red flagged, and you have to start all over again.  
>Given that most accidents are in the first few laps, a full course yellow 
>would not have such a drastic effect on the shape of the race.  I would 
>have thought that the TV companies would appreciate not having to rearrange 
>their schedules around so many delayed races. Hopefully you would just reduce 
>the number of red flagged races, and not end up putting out a pace car 
>every 10 laps.

I find the fullcourse yellow as one of the worst parts of CART.  It takes
away from all incentive to build a large lead for sure.  The cranes put
in place are a considerable expense, but since when has F1 ever been 
concerned about expense?
---

Mitch Sako - LSI Logic Corp		Phone  408-433-4187
internet:    msako@lsil.com		FAX    408-433-8796
uucp:        lsil!msako
From: altsourinaki@vaxsar.vassar.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: RE:F1:Magic fuels and more...
Date: 8 Apr 92 03:02:32 GMT
Organization: Vassar College

I really don't think that banning exotic fuels is the way to go in F1.First of
all,Shell,Elf,Agip and Mobil would have no reason to spend the millions that
they invest every year,not only in research and production,but also in
sponsorship fees for the big guys in F1,if FISA were to provide a standard type
of fuel to all teams.

Also,think of it this way:smaller teams,like Dallara,Ligier and so on,which are
using engines that are also used by the top teams,like Ferrari and Renault,
also have to use similar (although not the same) types of fuel.Ligier this year
is definitely using Elf fuel for its Renault V-10s,and Dallara is using Agip
fuel for its Ferrari V-12s.So,it's not exactly right to say that only the big
guys reap the benefits,while the small-budget teams are forced to use normal
or less exotic fuels.As the habit of buying a large manufacturer's engine
package (Honda-Mugen,Renault,Ferrari) becomes more popular with small and
medium-sized teams,exotic fuels will find their way more and more in the tanks
of other cars besides Williams,McLaren,Ferrari and Benetton.And in the end,we
have to face it:as in all the other sports,there are the rich and the not-so-
rich,but that's the way competition evolves,especially in a sport as costly as
F1 racing.

Also,I read in a previous posting a comment about the new Honda V-12s not being
good,without any justification.I'm wondering how this conclusion came about.
Both Senna and Berger quit on Sunday because of gearbox problems,not due to
engine failure.This year's Honda V-12 is rumored,along with the Reanult V-10,
to produce well over 800 hp in racing trim,and over the years the Honda engines
have proven to be the most bulletproof part of the McLaren-Honda package.But
since a good F1 car is definitely not only a good engine,that's probably the
reason why the new MP4/7 did so poorly in Brazil.Expect a competitive car in
Spain in 4 weeks though,where I hope that we'll see some more action that what
we've experienced so far.

good day.

Alex Tsourinakis
Vassar College.
 
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: b790zcd@utarlg.uta.edu (George M. Smiley)
Subject: Re: Mansell and rev-limiter
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 13:15:00 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.011635.24144@datamark.co.nz>, alan@datamark.co.nz (Alan Merry) writes...
>In article <1992Apr10.212119.593@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks) writes:
>>
>>The Autoweek article says that after Mansell pitted, he turned off his
>>rev-limiter and did a couple of laps at qualifying speed to be in front
>>of Patrese after he made his stop. If you taped the race, you can watch
>>the on-board camera shot of him switching off the rev-limiter on the
>>right hand side behind the steering wheel on his way of of the pits.
>>His strategy worked well, especially since he didn't even have any traffic
>>in front on him after pitting when he did those fast laps.

>I cannot believe that a magazine would publish such an obviously erroneous
>piece of info. The only way that an F1 driver knows when to change gear is
>by feeling for the engine on the limiter, there is absolutely no time to look
>at guages or anything else. I would venture to suggest that it far more 
>likely that he was adjusting the brake balance to allow for his new
>tyres. Alternatively he may have reset the limiter to a temp high value
>which was then reset latter in the race. These engines would self destruct
>without any limiting very quickly at 15000 RPM!!!+++++
> 

No, when you have been driving in motorsport for as long as Mansell
and Patrese I'm sure you can tell what RPM you are at simply by
feel. F1 motors are very loud and change in pitch at different RPM's,
the drivers know this.

George.
From: bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: F1; Testing at Silverstone
Keywords: Mansell Benetton
Date: 16 Apr 92 10:27:50 GMT
Organization: School of Biological Sciences, University of Bath, UK

The Motoring News reported ...

Nigel Mansell lapped Silverstone in 1m 20.3s on Monday in the 
Williams FW14B.  This compares pretty well with last year's 
pole position time of 1m 20.939s considering it was set with C 
compound race tyres and not qualifiers.

Michael Schumacher took the brand new Benetton B192 around
in an encouraging 1m 21.3s.  McLaren had some more teething 
troubles with the MP4/7A.

The new Benetton was described by Rory Byrne (the R & D chief)
as consolidatory.  They are aiming to beat McLaren, although
they probably won't be able to make up the gap with the
Williams.  The B192 takes the raised nose concept a stage
further - the top of the nose section is now almost horizontal.

			Andrew  Henry
Sempre Gilles					bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: torito@IASTATE.EDU (Jaime Santiago)
Subject: F1: atmospheric vs turbo
Keywords: lap times comparison
Reply-To: torito@IASTATE.EDU (Jaime Santiago)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 16:12:56 GMT




Does any one have fast lap times of turbo's last season?
I think it might be interesting to see if today's non-turbo cars are faster than
the best turbo cars. Sometimes horsepower alone doesn't make a car faster.


Jaime Santiago
Iowa State University
From: dans@rehab2.UUCP (Dan Schein)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Where did everybody go?
Date: 8 Apr 92 12:12:25 GMT
Reply-To: dans@rehab2.UUCP (Dan Schein)
Organization: Reading Rehab Hospital, Reading PA

In article <92098.112414MKZ101@psuvm.psu.edu> MKZ101@psuvm.psu.edu (Matt Zika) writes:
>X-Subliminal-Message: IBM/370 assembler is your friend.
>
>Where did all the Winston Cup people go?  Usually every week after a race there
> is some discussion about how it went.  My resources on getting information
>about qualifying, points, standings and general info. are limited.  Any info.
>that is posted or emailed would be greatly appreciated.

  This is not a 'fer sure' answer, but my guess is that everyone is still
 recovering. From what you ask? The fact that Bill didn't win!!! Yea!!!!!
 Also they are having a few drinks as a result of Dale Jaret (sp?) 2nd
 place finish!

 (Your mileage may vary from those reported above ;-)

  On a serious note, if you really desire WC info. Consider a subscription
 to 'Winston Cup Scene'. Its well worth the money IMHO.

 -Dan
-- 
  Reading Rehabilitation Hospital        _/\_        Those who worked the
  Dan Schein - Information Systems      \    /      hardest, are the last
  RD 1 Box 250                          /_  _\      to surrender.
  Reading, PA 19607                       \/           -= Gary Ward =-

  dans@rehab2.UUCP   -or-   ....{uunet,rutgers}!cbmvax!rehab1!rehab2!dans
From: mjackson.wbst147@xerox.com (Mark Jackson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1: 1-2 finishes, 1966-1986
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:13:16 GMT
Reply-To: mjackson.wbst147@xerox.com
Organization: Xerox Corporation, Webster NY

Other dominant performance in the World Championship:

Alfa Romeo won all 6 GPs in 1950, 4 1-2s, 3 consecutive.

Ferrari won all 7 GPs in 1952, 1-2 in the first 6.

Ferrari won the first 7 of 8 GPs in 1953, 5 1-2s, 3 consecutive.

Mercedes Benz won 5 of 6 GPs in 1955, 1-2 in the last 4.

During their 1988 walkover McLaren-Honda won 15 of 16 GPs, 10 1-2s as
noted, the longest string being 4.

So it appears the Ferrari record for 1952 is the benchmark.

---
Mark <MJackson.Wbst147@Xerox.COM>
    "Intelligence is nothing without delight"
			- Paul Claudel
From: glenn@misty.boeing.com (Glenn Cirlincione)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Re: F1 and Indy cars on same circuit [was Re: IndyCar Intl. Oval Series]
Date: 6 Apr 92 14:12:41 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane BCS Support

Well, the race was run in a two-heat format and mario andretti won both
heats in a Ferrari 312.  The US Formula A contingent was poorly represented
with Penske's effort looking the most promising.  Foyt, the Unser's were there
but the car's the promoters managed to attain were second-rate at best.

It was an interesting format and if it had been done in 73-74 when the serious
Formula 5000 racing was going on (with Carl Hogan's effort for Brian Redman
and Carl Haas's effort for Andretti and Al Unser) maybe it would have been a
better event.

Glenn Cirlincione
(206) 957-5282
From: dans@rehab2.UUCP (Dan Schein)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Bristol: Any comments? I missed it on TV....
Date: 10 Apr 92 13:13:41 GMT
Reply-To: dans@rehab2.UUCP (Dan Schein)
Organization: Reading Rehab Hospital, Reading PA

In article <1992Apr9.013456.10632@sarah.albany.edu> rs3596@thor.albany.edu (Robert B Scott) writes:
>
>>It is apparent that NASCAR doesn't plan to do anything to change Fords 
>dominance
>
>I heard that they are going to make the Birds change there roof starting it 

 So no one gets the wrong idea. This is a direct result of FARD's (opps ;-)
 changes to the production models. All NASCAR wants to do is have them fit
 the stock templets again. There is no attempt at FORK (darn, did it again ;)
 bashing so that GM can win again.

 -Dan
-- 
  Reading Rehabilitation Hospital        _/\_        Those who worked the
  Dan Schein - Information Systems      \    /      hardest, are the last
  RD 1 Box 250                          /_  _\      to surrender.
  Reading, PA 19607                       \/           -= Gary Ward =-

  dans@rehab2.UUCP   -or-   ....{uunet,rutgers}!cbmvax!rehab1!rehab2!dans
From: pete@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1 Fuel
Date: 8 Apr 92 12:56:11 GMT
Reply-To: pete@minster.york.ac.uk (Pete Fenelon)
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

In article <thos.702601876@suite.sw.oz.au> thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen) writes:

[ re: the Tyrrell exclusion from F1 in 1984 ]

>
>In any case, I am firmly convinced that Tyrrell was a fall guy,
>and had made enough enemies in the FIA and FISA that they decided
>to make an example of him. I also believe that he was innocent.
>

Me too. I never believed that Tyrrell would stoop to open cheating --
abuse of the rules was never a Tyrrell trait. Ken Tyrrell is a wily
old devil, but a sporting man with it!

I think FISA were anxious to make an example of Tyrrell because he was the
last bastion of the Cosworth era -- the only thing in the way of an
all-turbo F1. He was very vociferous about a lot of perceived wrongs in the
early turbo years and perhaps FISA were understandably somewhat peeved at
many of his statements (although as far as I remember he never quite
got to the Keith Duckworth level of openly claiming that turbos had
been illegal all along!)

Pete Fenelon

--
*Peter Fenelon -- Research Associate -- Software Safety Assessment Procedures*
Dept. of Computer Science, University of York, York, Y01 5DD (+44/0)904 433388
EMAIL: pete@minster.york.ac.uk (or pete%minster.york.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk)
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety. Henry IV, Pt1 2.3.11
From: glenn@misty.boeing.com (Glenn Cirlincione)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Fittipaldi..
Date: 7 Apr 92 20:06:26 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane BCS Support

Son of Wilson Fittipaldi who is the brother of Emmo.