HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ss1@kepler.unh.edu (The Rink)
Subject: Re: Piers Anthony
Organization: Turkey Hall
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:42:40 GMT

>I don't care if you read Brooks, Anthony, and co all the rest of your

This whole Piers Anthony thread has been extremely amusing to watch, but let's
get one thing straight.  Terry Brooks is *WAY* different that Anthony is.
It's almost blasphemy to classify them in the same category.  IMNSHO.

So let's keep it a clean fight, shall we...?
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
|                              The Rink                              |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:
   it is the gift of God:  Not of works, lest any man should boast.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
|                          Ephesians  2:8-9                          |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: swf@teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: _Oracle_, by Mike Resnick (spoilers!)
Date: 11 Sep 92 23:02:02 GMT
Reply-To: swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Organization: NCR Teradata Database Business Unit

In article <1992Sep10.034343.5891@kithrup.COM> sef@kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan) writes:
|
|Penelope, on the other hand, could choose futures.  She could choose a
|future in which almost any desired result occurred, by picking which actions
|on her part occurred in only the futures she was interested in. 

Well, that has *still* been done before.  Just substitute Frank Herbert
for for Larry Niven, and The Bene Geserat for Teela.


-- 
sarima@teradata.com			(formerly tdatirv!sarima)
  or
Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
From: dac@prolix.apana.org.au (Andrew Clayton)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Bad Writing.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 11:06:56 GMT
Organization: More like Dis~, really.
X-Newsreader: Arn V1.00 beta rel2

In article <1992Sep14.180157.5758@pbhyc.PacBell.COM>, Dan'l DanehyOakes writes:

> In article <1992Sep14.035830.18164@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca> aaron@space.ualberta.ca writes:
> 

[Alvaen Claims to be a defender for Anthony]

> Aaron/Alfvaen, you make the excellent point that not everyone wants stuff
> that makes them think.  Not everyone wants an intellectual experience from their

> Anthony's characters rarely show more common sense than this, and when they *do*
> come to a sudden realization of something the reader had figured out half a 
> novel ago, Anthony presents it as a brilliant insight on his character's part.  
> 
> The reader can react to this in one of two ways:  either by shallow self-
> congratulation on having been so smart as to realize this incredible thing for 
> him/herself (which I think is the reaction Anthony depends on:  a form of false 
> flattery, which is one of the worst insults of all), or to throw the book at the
> wall in disgust at the sheer idiocy of it all.

Other authors are past masters in the art of irritating the
reader.

Joel Rosenberg springs to mind. "Sitting tailor-fashion" and
similar phrase rehashing, time and time again, pissed me right
off. Reading a book by an author who has pissed you off, is
generally not conducive to a restful interlude.

I refuse to read anymore Piers Anthony, Joel Rosenberg or Allen
Steele novels, because the exhibit the trait of 'pissing off the
reader'. Alan Dean Foster is coming close to be scratched off my
'to buy' list too. :-)

As always, just my opinion. If people want to flame me for it,
take it to alt.flame, and I'll see what I can do.

Dac
--
dac@prolix.apana.org.au              David Andrew Clayton.           // _| _  _
dac@prolix.sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au      Canberra, Australia           \X/ (_](_](_
munnari!labtam!eyrie!prolix!dac        I post .
"I'm not a pheasant plucker ..."             . . I am.           +61 6 290 2215
From: Fritz.Niespodziany@p4.f41.n2403.z2.fidonet.org (Fritz Niespodziany)
Sender: postmaster@p2.f41.n2403.z2.fidonet.org
From: leue@crd.ge.com (Bill Leue)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Postmodern SF
Date: 8 Sep 92 13:13:48 GMT
Reply-To: leue@crd.ge.com
Organization: General Electric Research & Development

Speaking of Barry Malzberg, I recommend his critical history of Science Fiction,
"The Armies of the Night".  It presents the most jaundiced possible view
of SF, and is an interesting contrast to Aldiss, the Panshins, and other
critics in the field.  And, as other posters have mentioned, his writing is
impeccable.

-Bill Leue
leue@crd.ge.com
From: futtrup@daimi.aau.dk (Erik Futtrup S|rensen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Dragonworld (Preiss) - Telarium adventure
Keywords: adventure, dragon
Date: 15 Sep 92 11:33:38 GMT
Organization: DAIMI: Computer Science Department, Aarhus University, Denmark

Dragonworld (Preiss, Byron & Reaves) - Telarium/Trillium adventure

Some (many) years ago, I played the Telarium/Trillium adventure
Dragonworld. In a newsletter from the company, I read that it 
was made from a book. I remember that the story behind the game
was quite good, and I have since then wanted to read the book,
but had not been able to find it at any library. The other day,
I looked it up in Books in print (so now I'm sure the book exists),
and the State Library (in Denmark) confirmed that they did not
have any copies in Denmark (so I have quit looking...).

What I would like to know is whether it is a good book - so good 
that it is worth to keep on looking for. Have any of you played
the adventure - and read the book? Same storyline?

Thanks for any reply,

_______________________________________________________________________________
"Yes, it is true," he was saying, "that sometimes unusually intelligent and
 sensitive children can appear to be stupid. But, Mrs. Benson, stupid children
 can sometimes appear to be stupid as well. I think that's something you might
 have to consider."
                                Ralph Standish - Chief Consultant Psychologist
_______________________________________________________________________________
                              |                             |
-- Erik Futtrup               | Email: futtrup@daimi.aau.dk | 
                              |_____________________________|
From: aaron@space.ualberta.ca (Aaron Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Piers Anthony
Reply-To: aaron@space.ualberta.ca
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 03:58:30 GMT

dpn2@po.CWRU.Edu (Damien P. Neil) writes:
: 
: In a previous article, mweinste@pearl.tufts.edu () says:
: 
: >Is anyone out there a Piers Anthony fan?  I prefer his fantasy to his
: >sci-fi, but that's because I generally like the fantasy genre better.
: >I've read all of the Xanth books, the Apprentice Adept books, the
: >Incarnations series, and Firefly (perhaps his best yet!).  Every one
: >of his books is fun, impossible to put down, and filled with excitement.
: >Anyone who hasn't had the pleasure of reading Anthony should pick up one
: >of his books... let me know if you are interested, I can make some 
: >recommendations.  If you are already an Anthony fan, leave me a reply
: >and we can compare notes.
: 
: Are you serious, or just joking?

<sigh>  This is the kind of thing that inspired the post that started a brief
flamewar through misinterpretation a while ago.  This kind of response to those
who honestly like Anthony's work, or whoever else's, is why I recommended that
those people be directed swiftly to the alt.fan newsgroups rather than face the
kind of superior attitude they'll find here.

Dammit!  I >like< Piers Anthony!  I like a hell of a lot of stuff, and I must
say that periodic "Anthony writes nothing but drek" comments, usually inserted
as snide asides, still annoy me.  I don't consider him the best writer out
there, but he's far from the worst.  I can see that there's probably a lot of
resentment of the readership he seems to have stolen away from more "worthy"
books.  I personally don't think that many people who read Anthony are really
prepared to read more "worthy" books, because it's not their type of book.  It
all depends on what you're looking for.  I consider reading Anthony and Eddings
and Brooks and whatever else to be better than not reading any SF at all--maybe
a few of them will progress upwards to McCaffrey and Bradley, or Asimov and
Heinlein, and thence wherever.

I will hereby declare intent to flame mercilessly all those who make more snide
anti-Anthony comments in response to that earlier post.  Those who have not yet
read this post >not< excluded.

You have been warned.

--
---Alfvaen(Canadian SF Quasi-Activist)
"You better hope and pray that you're gonna awake
 Back in your own world..."  ---Shakespear's Sister
Current Album--George Michael:Listen Without Prejudice Vol. 1
Current Read--Robert Heinlein:The Past Through Tomorrow
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: whit@milton.u.washington.edu (John Whitmore)
Subject: Re: All the Weyrs of Pern
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:06:52 GMT

In article <d7nny2h.dani@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>jml12@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jonathan M Lennox):

>>  I think it was decided on alt.fan.pern that the AIVAS was a VMS
>>machine...not even DOS requires you to explicitly say "RUN".
>>  This explains a lot about the AIVAS, of course.  :-)

>But do VMS programs have .EXE extensions? 

	They do, if you didn't explicitly ask for some other extension.
The extension is only part of the file name, however; it does not
limit the file attributes.  If you want your executables to have
the ".tickety-boo" extension, that's OK.  What gets REALLY confusing
is when you change a directory's extension to something other 
than ".DIR".

	And, some files  that normally get ".EXE" extensions are
not executables (but rather "shareable images").  You can't explicitly
RUN them (there's no main entry point) but you can execute the
code in them...

	And, you can RUN a file without giving the RUN command,
by simply giving the complete file name.

	VMS is based on using almost every trick in the normal
computer operating-system repertoire; just try to print something
by copying it to the printer, or by giving a PRINT command, or
by running PIP... they all work.  It isn't odd that a future 
operating system would have a lot in common with VMS; if it picks
up the baggage that backward-compatibility would insist on, and
hangs about for more than a few decades, it'll have many VMS
features automatically.  "Convergent evolution", it's called.

	John Whitmore
From: jhildeb1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Jeff Hildebrand)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: HUGO Awards?
Date: 9 Sep 92 14:43:12 GMT
Reply-To: jhildeb1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Jeff Hildebrand)
Organization: Don's Merry Horde of Topologists

brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes:
> Sheesh, people.  Lois Bujold won the *nebula* for Falling Free.
> You can hardly complain about FEN voting.

	Since I haven't read that one, that's not the one I was complaining
about. :)

> Also for the mountains of mourning, I think.

	Actually I think this won both the Hugo and the Nebula in the
novella category.

> She won the Hugo for the Vor Game and just now for Barrayar.

	These are the ones I'm complaining about.

> As she said, "last year you voted a Hugo for your favourite novel.
> This year, you voted for MY favourite novel."
> 
> And she is right, Barrayar is her best work to date.

	I would argue that that isn't saying all that much. The Vor Game was
a lightweight, minor, and generally forgettable read. I was entertained
for the two hours it took me to read it, but there was absolutely nothing
memorable about it. It was just the same old standard space opera plot
reworked yet again.

	Barrayar was at least slightly better. By focusing on Cordelia, who
was not in the center of action for a good part of it, Bujold actually got a
little bit of a twist in there. But too much of the trappings were the
same old space opera plots. I was astounded to see in a recent Locus that a
reviewer criticized her upcoming fantasy for being too predictible with the
good guys emerging victorious and there being a triumphant wedding at the
end as part of the celebration, and implying that this was a come down for
her, that her SF isn't like that. It isn't? The things mentioned could just
have easily been used to discuss Barrayar.

> Bone Dance came in second, to my surprise (but not regret, it was
> a good novel.)

	Damn, so close, yet so far. Bone Dance was a very good book and
definitely a better one than Barrayar in my opinion. I'm a little surprised
that it finished second. I thought the award was going to be an exceedingly
close race between Barrayar and Xenocide.

> Later, I am sure you will hear reports on the Hugo Scandal.  

	Ok, someone please clarify this....

-Jeff
-- 
Jeff Hildebrand, The Shaggy TA			hildebra@math.wisc.edu
"Join that political superman, secret agent double 0 zero, George Bosh
in his new film, 'Never Just Say No Again.'"      Off The Cuff, R.I.P.
"Did everyone buy that? Good, 'cause I didn't"   The Proof By Snow Job
From: ca572@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark L. Stackpole)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: How do you know you're in an alternate reality (was Re: Asimov...)
Date: 11 Sep 1992 15:27:26 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


The was a novella by George Alec Effinger titled "Look Away" 
which had to do with a similar plot: the War for Southern
Independance never ends. However Effinger was drawing a paralell
with Lebanon & Beruit rather than Israel/Pasestinian conflicts.
It was published only by Pulphouse/Axotil press and never
reprinted.
This has nothing to do with an F&SF competition, of course.
Mark Stackpole    pacnet@rocky.claremont.edu
From: charles@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Charles Jacob Cohen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Piers Anthony
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:08:40 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI

In article <1992Sep14.102628.6669@afterlife.ncsc.mil> acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur C. Adams) writes:
>In article <1992Sep14.041848.18883@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca> aaron@space.ualberta.ca writes:
>>You, and many others who consider yourselves to have higher taste(I believe
>>that way back when I used "intelligentsia", to much controversy), dismiss it
>>as hackwork.  But it fills a need--a niche.  If there weren't a Piers Anthony,
>>somebody else would be filling that need.
>>
>Though I like to read "intelligent" literature, its not just that. 
>Like I said, Anthony just grinds 'em out, factory style. 
>
>He doesn't do much good for the industry, either. Xanth sells
>well with younger readers, high school types. For a lot of them,
>I fear, that's what they think fantasy is. I myself started with Tolkien.
>Just think of the difference in viewpoints. Yeah, I admit, when
>I read fantasy, Tolkien is my ideal. Better that than Anthony.
>

Your mentioning that Xanth sells well with younger readers reminded me
of TSR's books.  They fulfill the same nitch in fantasy that harlequin
romance novels do for romance.  And the sell very very very well.
I don't mind this, I just don't read TSR novels anymore, nor do I ready
Anthony novels.  People might worry that TSR type novels will take room away
from other authors on the shelves, but I don't think this has happened yet,
and hopefully it never will. - Chuck "gee Arthur, we haven't e-mailed in
ages because I'm working on my Ph.D., and I should be doing that instead
of posting articles" Cohen


-- 
"I do not feel obliged to believe that same God who endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect, had intended for us to forgo their use." - Galileo
"I'm an engineer, not a dictionary!" - Me
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: John Steakly (sp?) books
From: Sime <TJS107@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:26:32 EDT
Organization: Penn State University

I believe Steakley has something to do with movies (ie producer or director
or some such) and just sorta writes on the side.

He should write more stuff like Armor, IMHO.  I gotta get Vampires now.


Sime
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: clc@kepler.unh.edu (Christian L Claiborn)
Subject: Re: Piers Anthony
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:17:31 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.140840.19229@zip.eecs.umich.edu> charles@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Charles Jacob Cohen) writes:
>In article <1992Sep14.102628.6669@afterlife.ncsc.mil> acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur C. Adams) writes:
>>Though I like to read "intelligent" literature, its not just that. 
>>Like I said, Anthony just grinds 'em out, factory style. 
>>
>>He doesn't do much good for the industry, either. Xanth sells
>>well with younger readers, high school types. For a lot of them,
>>I fear, that's what they think fantasy is. I myself started with Tolkien.
>>Just think of the difference in viewpoints. Yeah, I admit, when
>>I read fantasy, Tolkien is my ideal. Better that than Anthony.
>>
>
>Your mentioning that Xanth sells well with younger readers reminded me
>of TSR's books.  They fulfill the same nitch in fantasy that harlequin
>romance novels do for romance.  And the sell very very very well.
>I don't mind this, I just don't read TSR novels anymore, nor do I ready
>Anthony novels.  People might worry that TSR type novels will take room away
>from other authors on the shelves, but I don't think this has happened yet,
>and hopefully it never will. - Chuck "gee Arthur, we haven't e-mailed in
>ages because I'm working on my Ph.D., and I should be doing that instead
>of posting articles" Cohen

Speak for your own bookstore, Chuck.
Mine (B. Dalton's in Manchester) is filled to the gills with the TSR crap.  
It's impossible to find anything by Varley or Niven or any other one of my
favorite writers in the terrible mess they've made.  I'm left to <gulp> 
ordering mail-order books.  When an industry's idea of solid SF is the 
"Warriors of the Future Series, Part XXIV," it's time for people who read
speculative fiction for insight, intelligence, humor, and challenges to find
ourselves another label and move to another spot in the bookstore.  Anyone
got any ideas?

					clc


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Christian Longshore Claiborn | clc@kepler.unh.edu | Friend of the Great     |
| Chuck Woolery's Protege      | clc@gloin.unh.edu  | Eater of Souls          |
| Future UNH Sysadmin          | clc@bifur.unh.edu  | Ask about group rates!  |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|"It was all very well to say 'Drink Me,' but the wise little Alice wasn't    |
| going to do THAT in a hurry."  -- The Reverend Charles Dodgson              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ca572@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark L. Stackpole)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: HUGO Awards?
Date: 8 Sep 1992 21:31:00 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


Hugo Winners - 1992

NOVEL - Bujold - _Barrayar_ (Baen)
NOVELLA - Kress - "Beggars in Spain"
NOVELLET - Asimov - "Gold"
SHORT STORY - Landis - "A Walk in the Sun"

I've only read the middle two. I suspect Asimov got the win not
for the quality of the story as the fen paying tribute to the 
Doctor's life work. 
The Kress story is being expanded into a novel to be released
next April.
I couldn't stand the book which Bujold won the Hugo for in 1989
(_Falling Free_). In fact that book single-handedly (or quadrup-
pled-handedly) cured me of any illusions that fen voting =
value & worth. 

JWC award - Ted Chang (?)
Mark L. Stackpole    pacnet@rocky.claremont.edu
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:11789 rec.arts.sf.science:2826
From: robertm@alumni.cs.colorado.edu (MONTGOMERY ROBERT PH)
Subject: Jim Baen ?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 03:11:49 GMT

I was told long ago to read Jim Baen's _Best of My Years_,
but have never seen any sign of it.  Could anyone provide
some information on it?

Thanks,

Rob

Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Date: Wed,  9 Sep 1992 22:56:21 -0400 
From: "Andrew C. Plotkin" <ap1i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Mercedes Lackey

Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.written: 9-Sep-92 Mercedes Lackey
Rebecca Drayer@YaleVM.YC (719)

> I have a question about Ms. Lackey's work.  Has she written any other
> Diana Tregarde books besides Jinx High?  

_Children of the Night_ and _Burning Water_. 
_CotN_ takes place earlier than, but was written after, _BW_.

> Also, is she planning to write any more in the future?

I don't know of anything Lackey has written that she doesn't plan to
write more of. :-)
(Not that I know her personally, it's just a statistical observation.)

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
From: lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: RIP Fritz Leiber
Date: 9 Sep 92 16:22:20 GMT
Organization: Society for the Appreciation of Janni Lee Simner


Hmm, since I originally posted, I should clarify my message.

There is an announcement in the SCience Fiction Round Table of GEnie
that appeared on Saturday stating that Leiber had died.  The news was
also general at WorldCon.  None of the professional writers, and others
who knew him, seem to think this is spurious, and there's a lot of real
grief being posted.

I have not, however, had the time to read the memorial topic to learn
the details of his death.

	Larry "He *had* been rather ill for sime time" Hammer
--

LNH@physics.arizona.edu          \  "One like a wombat prowled obtuse
The insane don't need disclaimers \  and furry"  --Christina Rossetti
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: wkinman@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au (Warren Michael Kinman)
Subject: Robert A. Heinlien 
Summary: Info?
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 06:17:27 GMT

ATTENTION

Just found out that there is (or was) an "alt.fan.pern" - for Anne McCaffrey
and Pern related subjects, I guess.  I've still to check it out.

Want to know if there is a HEINLIEN fan club for same.  
Also for Raymond E. Feist - The Rift War Saga
			    Daughter of the Empire
			    Servant of the Empire
			    etc.
Thanks in Advance.

Address : wkinman@esk.appcomp.utas.edu.au