HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: roberto@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Roberto S. M. Barros)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: James Hunt's comments on Senna/Mansell/Patrese at Hockenhein
Date: 28 Jul 92 11:33:29 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.
X-Mailer: mail-news 2.0.5

In the first incident Senna x Mansell, he became very angry on Mansell, and 
said something like:

This move was very very stupid indeed! 
There is only one way He (Mansell) can lose this championship, and this is 
if he gets hurt in an accident. Taking unnecessary risks is one way this 
may happen.
Obviously Senna is trying to explore this only weakness in Mansell (impacience), 
and trying to lead him to a mistake, but this is no excuse for him (Mansell).
This was very stupid indeed and he is lucky not to be out of the race.


In the second incident Senna x Patrese, he said it was Patrese's mistake but 
that this was more understandable than Mansell's, because they were in the 
final lap(s).

In the end he said that, despite his not so competitive equipment, 
"Senna is still the master".

Roberto Barros
From: gbg@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (gerald.b.green)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Re: Boo Boo Senna (German GP minor spoiler)
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:55:59 GMT
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories

In article <122490025@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> bruno@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bruno Melli) writes:
>> Senna defended his position brilliantly, despite an attack from a
>> driver in a clearly faster car.
>
>The Williams are clearly faster in the corners. 
>I'm not sure they are that much faster on the straights. 
>I would think that on circuits where they don't have to use too much wings 
>to compensate for the bad chassis the McLaren are as fast or faster 
>on the straights.
>
>If this is true then it is very difficult to pass them. All they have to
>do is make themselves large enough in the turns so that you can't pass them.
>Then with about the same power coming out of a turn there is no way you 
>can pass them at the turn exit or on the following straight. All by itself
>I would assume that the Williams have a faster corner exit speed. But with
>a car in front of you making you take the turn slower that advantage goes
>away.

Not quite true. If car/driver combination X is capable of the same
acceleration and top speed as car/driver combination Y, but X is faster
through the corners for whatever reason (better chassis, better
driver, better tires, etc.), X can still get by Y without resorting
to a "dive bomb" late braking pass. Instead of X climbing all over
Y on entry to a corner or in the middle of a corner, X backs off
*just a touch* on entry to a turn preceding a long straight to give
a little space to Y. X then uses up this space with the superior corner
speed, coming right back up on Y's gearbox shortly after the track
out point of the corner. X should now have superior exit speed, and
has a good chance of pulling along side before the next corner.
Now, the timing required to accomplish this little feat is by no
means simple. It may take a few laps (or more) to set it up. Y can also
purposely interfere by changing braking points. Thus, I agree with
your observation that "...it is very difficult to pass them".
Of course, there can be many other factors which make passing even more
difficult (such as Y spraying oil all over so X can't even see straight,
no less use the superior cornering speed (8^)), but that's what makes
racing so darned interesting.

The above method is taught by the Skip Barber instructors, and works
quite well in practise in their FF race series. It is quite necessary
in the series, as all of their cars are prepared to within a 1%
performance envelope. Some drivers are demons at braking, but don't
quite have the exit speed yet. If you're just a little faster than one
of these drivers, the above method is about the only option you have.

>Same thing happened a few years ago when Prost/Ferrari were challenging
>Senna/McLaren. There were a couple of races that were won in the pit.
>All by itself the Ferrari had a slight advantage, but when stuck behing 
>the McLaren it couldn't pass it.
>
>bruno.

Gerry Green
gerry@usl.com
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Remaining races (was Re: Mansell, Michael, . . . (German GP spoilers)
Date: 29 Jul 92 09:24:44 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre
Originator: netnews@uts.mcc.ac.uk

In article <1992Jul28.160351.22423@eplrx7.es.duPont.com> rogersmf@eplrx7.es.duPont.com (Mark Rogers) writes:

>Does anyone have a schedule of the remaining F1 races?  The one I've got
>still shows 7 races remaining: Hungary, Belgium, Italy, Portugal,
>"Europe" (Jerez), Japan and Australia.  Evidently this is wrong.

Just drop Europe

 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  I don't take part in any sport that requires me to change clothes  |
|  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England   (44)061-275-6033  |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: John Watson on German GP
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:22:39 GMT
Organization: School of Biological Sciences, University of Bath, UK

In article <1992Jul29.125416.23377@neptune.inf.ethz.ch> marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti) writes:
>In article <1992Jul29.110057.18927@gdr.bath.ac.uk>, bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk
>(Andrew Henry) responds to the questions about John Barnard raised by
>bruno@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bruno Melli):
>
>|> Yes. Barnard had designed a F5000 car in the mid seventies (for
>|> Penske?). He designed the original carbon fibre McLaren MP4 [...].
>
>I dunno about Barnard designing a F5000 car.  However, I do know that
>he was the man who designed the Chaparral 2K Indy car in the _late_
>70ies (1978?).  

That might have been what I was thinking of.

>|> When Barnard left, he did some consultancy work and then joined 
>|> TOM'S Toyota at Hingham. They built the TS010 SWC car, and the 
>|> 031F F3 car.  Apparently there was also some work on a F1 car.

>Apparently.  However, this project seems to have died now that
>a Toyota VP claimed that they will not enter F1.

According to today's Motoring News, TOM'S may still go ahead
with the F1 project, without Toyota's help.  They've got
some Japanese sponsorship, although they might just build
a F3000 car instead.

Also Pacific's F1 project is "definitely happening".  
There should be an announcement in the next week or so.

			Andrew  Henry
Sempre  Gilles					bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk
From: trljim@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (JIM SONNENMEIER)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Wreck on ESPN Saturday Night
Date: 21 Jul 92 13:35:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: acsu.BrqoB9.GJz
Distribution: na
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <3399@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, hpb@hpb.cis.pitt.edu (Harry Bloomberg) writes...
> 
>   Has anybody heard how the driver involved in that terrifying wreck
>Saturday night on ESPN is doing?  (I apoligize for not remembering his
>name.)
> 
>   The broadcast was of miget races at Indianapolis Raceway Park.  The
>accident was so horrifying that ESPN refused to show the replay.
> 
>Harry Bloomberg
>hpb@vms.cis.pitt.edu

I saw a replay on ESPN Sunday night, you`re right horrorfying!!! ... never 
seen anything like it the guy floppin around like a rag doll .. anyway
all they said that he was in serious but stable condition ... that was 

three days ago .. I hope it is still true.

Jim
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti)
Subject: More Random Rumors on F1
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 13:36:27 GMT

Here's a collection of rumors on future F1 chassis-engine-
driver combinations from Motorsport aktuell, in no particular
order:

Alboreto and Suzuki will continue to drive for Footwork in 93.

Al Unser Jr. supposedly signed with Benetton to drive for them
in 93, bringing sponsorship money from Budweiser.

Olivier Grouillard had his last race with Tyrrell because a
sponsorship deal fell through.  Possible replacements are
rumored to be Emanuele Naspetti, an Italian F3000 driver,
or Heinz-Harald Frenzen, a German F3000 driver.  (Frenzen
is rumored to move to Sauber-Illmor next year, with Tyrrell
getting Illmor engines for 1993 in return for letting
Frenzen drive in the last 6 GPs.)

Thierry Boutsen has been talking to Jochen Neerpasch and
Peter Sauber with respect to driving for Sauber-Illmor in
1993.  Sauber is claimed to have said that he expects "a
number of excellent drivers to become available for 1993,
for example, Martin Brundle".  [Of course, Boutsen isn't
bad either.]

Toyota Vice President Shiro Sasaki said that Toyota will not
enter F1.  They will continue to do sportscars [I assume this
means Group C] and rallyes.

BMW Sports Director Karlheinz Kalbfell said that BMW will
not make F1, neither in 93 nor later, neither with McLaren
nor with anybody else.  He said that the reasons for Honda
to get out of F1 or much the same as the reasons for BMW
NOT to get involved.

-- 
Robert Marti                    |  Phone:    +41 1 254 72 60
Informationssysteme             |  FAX:      +41 1 262 39 73
ETH-Zentrum                     |  E-Mail:   marti@inf.ethz.ch
CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland     |
From: rons@soul.tv.tek.com (Ron Selberg)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Its time for another match race
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:17:41 GMT
Organization: Tektronix TV Products

Having seen both the Indy cars and the IMSA car here in Portland I can
say what I saw as the difference. 
The Imsa cars were able to brake later than the Indy cars. Blew me away
when I saw the Toyotas braking for the chicane.
I'm sure the Toyotas at least have more power than an Indy car.
They also weigh more but have bigger tires and brakes. And I believe they
have more downforce.
Most of the Indy cars have 720 plus hp and all weigh the same. About 1300
lbs? So they have power to weight in thier favor for sure.

Of course, put the two on the same track at the same time and I will pick
the Imsa car for sure. Something about those tires hanging out there on
the Indy car.

Indy car racing is much closer though, Imsa still hasn't figured out the
proper formula to equalize weight vs engine type.

RON
From: pod@suite.sw.oz.au (Paul O'Donnell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Honda out of F1 (Looks Official)
Date: 30 Jul 92 00:20:59 GMT
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd

In <1992Jul27.232519.12501@sequent.com> dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller) writes:

>Don't blame just Honda.  It's true the damned things oil like crazy
>but so do most of the rest of 'em.  

>1) If you shed 5 gallons of oil during the race then you're 20-30 pounds
>   lighter at the end.

Ah, but you must be above the minimum weight after the race (remember
Prost being disqualified several years ago in a Mclaren for being
underweight after the race).  Therefore you must be 20-30 pounds
heavier at the start.

This gets me thinking, what happens if you have an incident near the end
of the race and lose a wing but decide to soldier on rather than finish?
At scrutineering, you are a couple of kilos underweight because of the
missing bits.  Are you disqualified?

>2) If you build 'em loose then you get more power (over the short term).

Don't you love 2hr engines?

Paul
-- 
pod@softway.sw.oz.au                    | Gaffer tape is like the force.
Softway Pty Ltd                         | It has a light side and a dark
Phone:   +61 2 698-2322                 | side and it binds the universe
Fax:     +61 2 699-9174                 | together.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: drhall@b8.ingr.com (Dave Hall)
Subject: Re: Davey's Crash & Front Page
Summary: another gang!!
Organization: Intergraph
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 13:51:03 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.163357.13789@hemlock.cray.com>, deanb@pecan10.cray.com (Dean Barker) writes:
> 
	[STUFF DELETED]
> 
> BTW, Good job by "The Wisconsin Gang": Kulwicki #3, Musgrave #5, and Trickle #9.
> Top that Alabama!!

We have, many times :)! Seriously, congrats to those guys for an excellent run!
Can't wait to see Musgrave in the Petty pontiac next year!!!!

Just heard on the local sports that Davey intends to start the car Sunday at
Talladega, with Red Farmer taking over after 1 lap. Another driver will relieve
Red later in the race, depending on who has dropped out.

BTW, I'll be in the OV Hill section at the center of the trioval sunday for the
DIehard 500. 5 rows down & 5 seats right. Stop by to say hi if you are there!

> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Dean Barker				Cray Research, Inc.
> deanb@cray.com				655F Lone Oak Drive
> (612) 683-5414				Eagan, MN 55121


 =============================================================================
                                          ||           ______
   Dave Hall                              ||     \____//|____`\______    
    BLACK CAT RACING - Madison, Al.       ||     /Havoline 28    /  \ \_ 
                                          ||     ==\__/==========\__/===\ 
                                          ||         ______  
   dave@racer.b8.ingr.com                 ||   \____//|____`\______    
   uunet!ingr.com!b8!racer!dave           ||   /Raybestos 12   /  \ \_
                                          ||   ==\__/==========\__/===\
                                          ||   "The NEW GANG LEADERS!"
 =============================================================================
From: danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1 Braking Distances
Date: 30 Jul 92 00:49:33 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

Ian G Batten writes:
>>>>>> On 29 Jul 92 08:26:45 GMT, rsv@gdwb.oz.au (Roger Virgo) said:
>Roger>  Good Idea for closer racing and more passing????
>
>It strikes me that there is a fundamental lack of understanding of the
>nature of Formula One racing.  Some racing has as an objective the
>testing of driver skill.  Such formulae have very tight limits to
>essentially render the cars equivalent.

There seem to be alot of people that are under this impression, that F1
is for technodweebs.  Doesn't F1 have both the World Drivers Championship
and the World Constructors Championship (preceeded by the WDC)?  It has
championships for both drivers and teams, so I would think that it is
appropriate for compromises to occure in order to keep the championships
in check.

I have never read anywhere but in r.a.s. that F1 is only about technology.
IMHO, the WDC is more important than the WCC.  Afterall, I'm sure more folks
would know who won the WDC for a given year than who won the WCC.

You might be more interested in the technology end of F1 and that is fine
but this doesn't mean thats what its all about.

Dan Jones
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Saturday Night Thunder Crash
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Date: 21 Jul 92 13:52:37 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: SPSS Inc.

lgb@cray.com (Larry Briski) writes:

>Apparently the producers working these events use different standards in
>putting a show together for viewing.  
Seeing a Winston Cup car disintigrate is certainly horrifying...but seeing
the driver tossed like a rag-doll is ever so much more so....at least in my
opinion.

 -Steve
--
 The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                        -------------------
     adams@spss.com                           Phone: (312) 329-3522
     Steve Adams                              Fax:   (312) 329-3558
From: wilson@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com (David Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1: Honda
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:03:41 GMT
Organization: Schlumberger CAD/CAM; Ann Arbor, Michigan (USA)

In article <1992Jul27.142706.6781@stsci.edu> lallo@stsci.edu writes:
>
>Granted I'm not Honda's Chief Financial Officer, and their may be some
>legitimate financial reasons for the withdrawal, but it just seems to me that
>if small teams like Leyton House and Footwork manage to make it from race to
>race Honda could easily do the same.
>

I've been told, by someone who knows more about the sizes and fortunes of
auto companies around the world than me, that while Honda looks huge and
invincible in the US market, it looks different in Japan.  Compared to Toyota,
in particular, Honda is a small player in their home market.  Honda depends
on their exports to the US to a far greater degree than the other of the
biggest Japanese companies.

And, things in the US are not as rosy for Honda as they were in years past.
Their superiority in quality is not as unchallenged as it was, sales aren't
great, etc.

So, we have a company critically dependent on the US market, sinking vast
sums into a sport that (as we've discussed many times before in this forum)
doesn't have the following in the US that it does elsewhere.  Finally, it's
not my impression that the kinds of people who buy most of the Hondas care
much for motorsports anyhow.  I know lots of people who buy Japanese cars,
and they are primarily the sort of people who buy cars like they buy kitchen
appliances -- they think Consumer Reports is the word of God.  Fit and finish,
mileage, repair rates, low insurance costs, etc., are what they care about.
Balls-to-the-wall performance?  They don't know and don't care.  They most
certainly don't know who Ayrton Senna is!

If I was a Honda stockholder, I would have to SERIOUSLY question why on earth
they have poured so much money into F1.  Looked at as an INVESTMENT, rather
than from OUR viewpoint as racing fans, what do they get from it??  The technical
reputation to sell $60,000 sports cars?  How many can they possibly sell?  The
profit, as opposed to selling hundreds of thousands of Accords, is nothing.
The Accord sales are seriously affected by what Consumer Reports says about
their reliability in next months issue, and NOT AT ALL by whether Senna racks
up another championship, or not.

With the old man gone, the beancounters at Honda are redoing their sums, and
the conclusions are perfectly predictable.  If we look at Honda's situation
rationally, as opposed to looking at it as emotional racing fans, it's hard
to argue that they're wrong.

Dave Wilson
From: danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1 thoughts
Keywords: Elf fuel
Date: 25 Jul 92 02:12:36 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

>> No-one has mentioned Elf in the Williams/Renault equation.  This puts
>> extra weight on the we-want-a-frenchman-driving-or-we'll-take-our-bat-home
>> argument.
>
>I was wondering about Elf too, but not in the same way.  At one point, 
>during the fuel debates, Elf threatened to quit F1 if fuel was to be 
>standardized.  The fuel is to be standardized next year, so is Elf 
>pulling out?  I haven't heard confirmation either way.  

The fuel regulations will most likely remain as they are now.  The Williams
team did not approve the new proposal at the Maranello Summit and 100% of
the teams must approve for a rule to change.   I would think that this would
indicate that Elf will be back in '93.

Dan Jones
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Re: Honda out of F1 (Looks Official)
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 17:11:04 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.161032.29792@pixel.kodak.com> jaslow@bissun.kodak.com (Russell Jaslow) writes:
>I can't speak for all sanctioning bodies, but in the SCCA, yes you would be
>illegal.  This issue comes up occasionally (expecially with large bore prod.
>cars that lose a whole body piece in an accident which can weigh quite a bit,
>but are able to finish) and the issue always gets appealed.  The bottom line
>is the car must be legal when it enters impound.  They may call it "as raced"
>condition, and if something happens during the race, then it is being raced
>in that condition.  This also applies to ride height and other types of 
>measurements which may change due to incidents on the race track.
>-- 

Reminds me of the TransAm several years ago here at Portland.  It was
Willy T. vs. (was it Wally Dallenbach Jr. or Scott Pruett - help me
out).  A knock down, drag out race.  By the end of the race, there was
nary a body panel left on either car.  Looked like a couple of east
coast modifieds!

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: gene@wucs1.wustl.edu (_Floor_)
Subject: INDY vs. IMSA : Unser, Jr.
Organization: The K-Zoo Crew
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 21:44:27 GMT

  I'd be interested in hearing any comparisons/contrasts that Unser Jr.
  made/drew between the two types of cars after driving at Portland. 
  Has anyone heard anything from him?

  _____    "But you can't really call that a dance. It's a walk." - Tony Banks
 /  ___\  ___  __ ___   ___      _____________   gene@cs.wustl.edu
 | / __  / _ \ | /   \ / _ \     |  physics  |   gene@lechter.wustl.edu
 | \_\ \ | __/ |  /\ | | __/     |racquetball|   gev1@cec2.wustl.edu
 \_____/ \___/ |_| |_| \___/     |volleyball |   gene@camps.phy.vanderbilt.edu
 Gene Van Buren, Kzoo Crew, Washington Univ. in St. Louis - #1 in Volleyball
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: jrs@cbnews.cb.att.com (jeff.sherota)
Subject: Re: Ted Prappas (Was: Whats Mario's excuse this time?)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 02:07:01 GMT
Keywords: pit lane, Michael

In article <182782@pyramid.pyramid.com> danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones) writes:
>jeff.sherota writes:
>>guido.a.rijo writes:
>>>
>>>Clam down Dougw,
>>>Do you think Rahal's crew would have send him out if
>>>it was Ted Prapas coming up to speed?.         ...
>
>Ted Prappas is a very competent IndyCar driver.  No, he probably won't ever
>be a front runner, but he doesn't need these kinds of comments to further
>his career.

I didn't make the original statement, but I don't think it was intended 
as a put down of Ted Prappas.  I interpreted it as saying there is little
value in Rahal making such an aggressive move in pulling out in front of 
a back-marker exiting the pits when he would be able to quickly over 
take them once back on the track.  Rahal pulled out in front of Michael
because he was battling with him for the lead.  There are times when
the only thing that matters is winning.

It wasn't until now that I realized someone might interpret the original 
statement as implying Rahal wouldn't have enough faith in Prappas' driving
ability to pull such a move.  I didn't interpret it that way.

			Jeff Sherota
			jrs@cblpe.att.com