HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: Is Seattle moving there fences out?
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 23:40:23 GMT

In article <mjones.727547937@fenway> mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com writes:
>sml@plato.ds.boeing.com (Stuart Lewis) writes:
>>In article <C12x3K.K4q@cs.dal.ca> niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gordon Niguma) writes:

>>>Bill James wrote that the Mariners were moving out the fences progressively
>>>in 1992 and 1993. Have they gone through with this yet (in 1992) and are they
>>>going to continue in 1993? If so,

>>>   a) How has the move changed the characteristics of the Kingdome? And how
>>>      significant is that impact?

>>This was in fact done prior to last season; don't know/haven't heard
>>about doing the same for this season.  The reasons for this action
>>were primarily two-fold.  1) cut down on what would be considered
>>"cheap" home runs which otherwise wouldn't occur at other parks, and
>>2) make the very best use of Ken Griffey in center field, i.e.,
>>allow this all-star to use more turf in which to roam.  There may

>I'm not sure this is such a good idea. Griffey is a great player
>offensively, but he may be benefitting from the highlight film syndrome
>defensively. I pulled the DA data for AL centerfielders for 1989, 90, and
>91. Counting league averages, that gave 25 data points. When I sorted them
>by DA, there were a few surprises...

[DAs which show Griffey near the bottom of the league in defense]

>From this, it looks like Junior is a below average centerfielder, though his
>1991 numbers aren't awful. He may still be learning. On the other hand,
>those aren't the numbers *I'd* move fences back for. 

I think it was James who pointed out that despite Griffey's reputation
and all, he just doesn't seem to be very fast.

He doesn't do the things fast players do, like hit triples, steal bases,
or avoid grounding into double plays.  

(For that matter, despite his consistently good OBPs, he doesn't score 
*that* many runs, either, though this is obviously a teammate-based 
thing, as well.)

So it's sort of odd the way his reputation is...
-- 
David M. Nieporent   | "We don't need anymore [sic] wretched refuse.  It's 
niepornt@phoenix.    |  time to send the Statue of Liberty somewhere else"
   princeton.edu     |      -- Jack "Not a bigot" Schmidling, 1/7/93
Baltimore Orioles 93 |
From: jaeastman@anl.gov (Jeff Eastman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Women Sports Reporters
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:50:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: jmac.jaeastman-260193094901
Followup-To: rec.sport.baseball,soc.women,soc.men
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if male reporters are allowed into
the lockerooms of female tennis pros?

_______________
Jeff Eastman
jaeastman@anl.gov
_______________
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jknowles@cwis.unomaha.edu (Jonathan C. Knowles)
Subject: question about newsgroup
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 00:55:03 GMT

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jmk.admin@mhs.unc.edu (Jim Kirkman)
Subject: re: The Straw Man
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:44:50 GMT

In article <wrigley-260193093229@128.95.123.178> wrigley@u.washington.edu (Bob Ennes) writes:
>Does anyone in net land have any idea how Daryl Strawberry's health is?  Is
>he primed to return to the type of player he was in New York or is he
>finished?  Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks
>
>Bob
Not much here but the NY Times had a little blurb about him saying he
had swung a bat for the first time since his surgery last Sept. and 
said he felt fine. Of course as an ardent anti-Met and anti-Dodger 
fan (not to mention anti-Darryl fan) this begs the question WFC?

L.P.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: wall@cc.swarthmore.edu (Matthew Wall)
Subject: Re: 10-1? Really?
Followup-To: rec.sport.baseball
Organization: Hi, I'm Matt, and I'm...a Boston Red Sox fan
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:37:52 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.165640.14095@midway.uchicago.edu>,
thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) wrote:
> 
> About the only team I saw on that list that had reasonable odds was,
> surprisingly enough, the New York Yankees.  (Well, Colorado and Miami's
> 300-1 is probably as good a guess as any.)  The Yanks are a much better
> team than the Mets, are much more likely to win the division, but are
> considered less likely to win the World Series, according to the LV
> oddsmakers.  I might be tempted to lay $25 on them.

ANH! Wrong. The Yanks are still suffering from the dying curse of Billy
Martin and will languish in last again this year and every year until
armageddon, when Billy will rise from his sodden grave and escort
Steinbrenner, screaming, into the pit of eternal torments where their only
comfort will be seeing Harry Frazee one circle below them.

- matt
---------------------------------------------------------
This space left intentionally blank until spring training.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mjw@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Michael Wolverton)
Subject: Re: Cecil signs :-( :-( :-(
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:35:58 GMT

In article <2615@blue.cis.pitt.edu> genetic+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate) writes:
>(Dr. Dave counts slowly to ten...)
>I'm trying *very* hard not to
>just be angry, but I feel like you've completely ignored everything I've
>written here, and then accused me of making a *really* dumb mistake.

I certainly did not have the intention of accusing you of making a
dumb mistake, or anything else, and I really apologize that I came
across that way.  I was enjoying this thread where all posters were
making civil and very rational arguments, and I'm sorry that I
(apparently) was the one who broke the trend.

>[Point-by-point replies deleted for sanity's sake.]

That's fine, especially since I'm obviously not making myself clear.
I would, though, like to hear your response to one specific point in
my last post.  (Substitute "has no retrospective value" for
"was worthless" below if you like.)

[Dr. Dave:]
>>(c) because the ability to pitch lots of innings has prospective value (as a
>>hedge against having to use a worse pitcher), but no *retrospective* value
>>beyond the quality of those innings.

[me:]
>This doesn't make any sense to me.  We sign an average pitcher 
>because we think he'll improve the team, help us get to the playoffs, 
>etc. (i.e., he has prospective value), but when he actually goes out and 
>*accomplishes* these things, we retrospectively decide that he was 
>worthless?  Value is value, whether your projecting it for the future or 
>looking back on it.  If a guy has value because he *will* improve your 
>team, then he certainly has value (or had it) if he *did* improve your 
>team.
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Wolverton                       "Is that clear?"
mjw@cs.stanford.edu                     "No, but it's consistent!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Tom Tippett and Defensive Average
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:11:22 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

In article <21832@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> ez027993@dale.ucdavis.edu (Gary Prisoner Huckabay) writes:
>Also - Player disks just don't serve any purposes for our league.  They
>come out WELL after we need them.  The DTBL staff does all the research and
>data entry, and produces the data disks within *3* days of the end of the
>season - I don't know why PtP can't do the same thing.  That's four people
>working as volunteers.  I expect a company would be able to do it easier.

Companies aren't always large.  PtP, in fact, is quite small, and Tom does
all the work for producing the data disks himself  (he doesn't do data
entry; he buys data from Stats).

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jpalmer@uwovax.uwo.ca (The Econoclast)
Subject: Zosky
Organization: University of Western Ont, London
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 13:26:49 GMT

A local reporter recently asked Zosky if preferred being called "Ed"
or "Eddie". 

He smiled and said, "Call me Eduardo."

-- 
  John Palmer    London, Ontario       Voice: (519) 661-3533     FAX: 661-3666
  reply to jpalmer@uwovax.uwo.ca       The Economics Institute for Journalists
  ============================================================================
  The New Economics: Overlapping Generalizations & Rationalized Expectorations

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kalford@sol.uvvm.ca (Keith Alford)
Subject: Re: Js Need for LH SP (Was Schofield...)
Followup-To: rec.sport.baseball
Organization: University of Victoria, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 16:50:26 GMT

In article <kbanaian.189.0@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu>,
kbanaian@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu (King Banaian) wrote:

> >The one problem the Jays and Expos have is the Canadian Dollar.  One report
> >that I heard is that for every cent that the Canadian dollar drops the
> >Jays lose $700,000 (because income is mostly in Canadian Dollars and the 
> >payroll is in US dollars)

>> and the Can. Dollar has dropped about 10 cents in the last 6 months.  That means a loss of 
 >>about $7 million.

The Can. dollar goes up and down a couple of 100ths of a cent every
day--but there's no way it dropped this much. The Jays are making a FORTUNE
on memorabilia from their World Series win. Easily enough to pay several
Winfields for several years.

From what I read, the Jays are the most money-making team in all of
baseball. The Indians make more money (per game) playing as visitors in the
Skydome than they do at home.
From: gregt@hfglobe.intel.com (Greg Tollefson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: YANKEE REFLECTIONS ANYONE???
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:37:43 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation

>
>With Abbott, Perez, Key pencilled in for 35*3=105 starts (barring
>injury), I'd say that they're *already* stronger than any other top 3
>in the AL East, and possibly the entire AL.  In addition, they have
>Sam Militello for an entire year.  "But Militello might bomb", you
>say?  Very unlikely, IMO.  A good measure of future success in the
>Majors is K/9 inn.; over 6 at the MLB level and you're looking good.
>Last year, Militello was ~6.75 for his stint in the Majors.  More
>importantly, though, is the fact that *he's struck out more than 9 per
>9 inn. at every minor league level he's pitched at*.  Not even the
>highly touted David Nied has done that.  Oh, one more thing,
>Militello's only 23 (a year younger than Nied, BTW).  This guy's
>destined for greatness.
>
>So that's 4 spots in the rotation that are filled by top pitching
>talent.  Pitching is almost impossible to predict from year to year,
>but I'd say the Yankees have a better chance than anyone else but the
>Braves of having a great year pitching-wise.  Put another way, if the
>Yankees had signed Maddux and still made the deal for Abbott, they'd
>have a stronger rotation than the Braves.
>
>Noel Steere (Class of '9?)   |...of the Dave Rossing fan club
>GM/Manager, New York Knights |Knights' Final Run Total: 806 Runs
>Internet Baseball League     |
>nss3@midway.uchicago.edu     |Hector in '96!
>Make outs, not walks!        |Cal Ripken, AL Gold Glove?  Well, at least
>(well, Joe *said* I said it!)|  we got rid of Bush and Quayle...


Could any of the many obviously informed Yankee fans tell me about the
progress of Brien Taylor.  Imagine the above rotation with Taylor 
pitching at the level of his expectation.  Add Hitchcock and Wickman,
and you have an excellent *young* pitching rotation.

Greg T.


--
From: sweda@css.itd.umich.edu (Sean Sweda)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Whitaker
Date: 26 Jan 1993 21:38:21 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan - ITD Consulting and Support
NNTP-Posting-Host: stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Ted Frank (thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu) wrote:
>In article <1jvou2INN55v@stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu> sweda@css.itd.umich.edu (Sean Sweda) writes:
>>Ted Frank (thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu) wrote:
>>>His OBA improved also.  His career high came in 1991, and he almost
>>>beat that in 1992.  Once you park-adjust and age-adjust, his career
>>>stats are about as good as Sandberg, but he's been considerably less
>>>durable.  
>>
>>Actually, Lou has had only 1 real injury -- the infamous dancing incident
>>in the middle of the 1988 pennant race.  The fewer AB's is a direct result
>>of Sparky deciding (around 1986 I beleive) that Lou would be better off
>>not starting against LH pitching.  His strikeouts dropped tremendously
>>after this, so maybe Sparky made a good decision, as until very recently
>>Lou had fits with lefties.  As for durability, there's no doubt in my mind
>>that Lou could play 2b for 160 games, but he probably wouldn't be posting
>>as high averages (OBP, SLG) as he is now.

>Well, if you look at GABSB, his ratio of facing LHP to RHP wasn't *that* 
>much different than his teammate Trammell from 1984-91, though he was
>averaging about 30 PA v LHP a year less.  But, yeah, he is pretty bad
>against LHP.

>As for durability, he only played 153 games or more once in his
>career.  We can probably also give him the 1981 strike year when he
>played 109 games.  Sandberg has played less than 153 games only once,
>1987, when he played 132.  I don't know how long Sparky has been sitting
>Whitaker against LHP, but I'd still give Sandberg the durability nod.

Point taken,  although I'm still inclined to view Whitaker's PA's as
more a function of Sparky's managing style.  It started out with Sparky
benching Lou against "tough" lefties, but as soon as the Tigers signed
Tony Phillips, I think Lou has started only 1 or 2 games a year against
lefties.  In fact, except for Fielder, I think Sparky tries to get
everyone on the team about 7-10 games off a year.

Unfortunately, there really isn't much data I can find on this.
Most Tigers' regulars over the years I can check are either injury prone
(Trammell, Gibson), or retired (Herndon, Lemon, Evans).  Here goes anyway --

Phillips
1990 152 G
1991 146 G
1992 159 G

Fielder
1990 159 G
1991 162 G
1992 155 G

Cuyler
1991 154 G
1992  89 G (benched)

Fryman
1991 149 G
1992 161 G


Oh well, maybe it just *seems* that way.

Sean

***********************************************************************
Sean Sweda					sweda@css.itd.umich.edu
GM/Owner Motor City Marauders
Internet Baseball League	 1/24/93 - Florida State 89, Duke 88 OT	
***********************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker)
Subject: Re: YANKEE REFLECTIONS ANYONE???
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:04:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.084552.1@sscvx1.ssc.gov> kasper@sscvx1.ssc.gov writes:
>In article <2497@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, genetic+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate) writes: 
>> Just a nit:  Don Mattingly certainly _is_ an impatient hitter by my
>> standards.  I imagine that at least Gary Huckabay has similar standards,
>> and perhaps a few more netters...
>
>This seems to be a recurrent theme.  It is true that Mattingly walks
>infrequently, but this could be attributed to the fact that he almost always
>makes contact and puts the ball in play rather than to impatience.  It is
>difficult to walk a lot if you rarely swing and miss. 

On the other hand, Wade Boggs is a great contact hitter, who rarely
swings and misses, but drew tons of walks. I agree that Mattingly is
exceptionally good at putting the ball in play, and that this is why
he doesn't walk much. But putting a ball in play is not the name of
the game; getting on base and avoiding outs is. Boggs would (I think)
deliberately foul off pitches he could have put into play; he chose
not too, because the next pitch may be more suitable to being put into
play sharply and safely. It also means another pitch, another chance
for a ball, which leads ultimately to a walk. 

If you look at his career as a whole, Mattingly has hit .311. When not
striking out, he hits .331. If Mattingly could preserve that .331
average when putting the ball in play, and draw more than one walk per
extra 2 strikeouts he incurred by being more selective, his OBA would
improve. I think he could probably get at least one extra walk per
extra strikeout, which would create a large improvement in OBA. The same
argument could be applied to Kirby Puckett.

>One other Mattingly question:  are the incessant complaints about Mattingly
>that appear here caused by: a) the fact that Mattingly isn't as good as he used
>to be or b)people really believing that he is no good.  All of the stats from
>the last few years do not show that Mattingly stinks - they only show that
>there are other first basemen in the league that have performed better, and
>that there are other first basemen in the league that have performed worse.

All of the stats from the last few years show Mattingly to be an
average first baseman in the AL. The perception of Mattingly, by most
fans, the media, and Yankee management, is that he is a great player.
The complaints against Mattingly, and Fielder, and Carter, and
Puckett, is that their perceived value is much greater than their
actual value; not that they are "bad", but merely overrated. They are
still good players; if they were your 1B, DH, RF, and LF I would say
you had the core of a contending team. There are a lot of people who
would rebel against your statement that "there are other first basemen
in the league who have performed better." There are people out there
who seem to beleive that he is still as good as he was at his peak,
and that he will once again hit .330 with 30 HR.

>Raph Kasper

Clay D.
From: pjtier01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Change the game?
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 23:49:18 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

> The obvious advantage of the DH is that it generates more offense,
> but I would not sacrifice it for the elimination of strategy.
> 
> I have a solution to this problem:
> 
> The pitcher has to bat, but there can be a DH for another position
> player.
> 
> This solution would keep the strategy in the game while adding more
> offense. What do all of you pro and anti DHers think about this
> solution?
> -- 
> WESLEY

Again I ask, what for? What exactly does this accomplish? 
                                                          P. Tierney

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: lsmith@mega.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith)
Subject: Re: Bill James help
Organization: The Little Squids of the Poor
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:11:10 GMT

Does anyone need a copy of the 1984, 1985 or 1988 Bill James Abstracts?
I recently picked up a copy of both the '84 and '85 Abstracts and I can 
probably get the '88 Abstract if someone is interested. 

The '84 and '85 abstracts are both in good shape and I paid half of their
original cover price. In the hopes of promoting SDCNness I'll sell them
for what I got them for, plus the cost to ship them. To reduce hassles, 
I'd prefer selling them as a set.

Drop me some e-mail if you're interested. If more than one person wants them,
I'll probably have to come up wth some Byzantine scheme for deciding who
gets what.

-----------------------------
  Lance "Cr2O3.2H2O" Smith  | "Moments after being named manager for the
    (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)     |  Oakland A's, Mr Peanut was crushed by a 
  Special Limited Edition   |  red headed loner wielding an aluminum bat." 
     r.s.bb  .signature     |                _Murder at the Mausoleum_
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Misc. GABSB Observations
Date: 27 Jan 93 14:12:19 GMT
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering

thf2@midway.uchicago.edu said:

	[Nice tidbits;  thanks, Ted.]

>Has any MVP ever declined as precipitously as Kirk Gibson?

Zoilo Versalles?

-- 
       David Tate        |"Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | That sends the screaming liner over it 
 Prof. of Story Problems | And spills the bleacher-dwellers from their seats."
 Member ORSA, TIMS, SABR |  	"Fenway Wall", Robert Frost          
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kohout@cs.umd.edu (Robert Kohout)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Misc. GABSB Observations
Date: 28 Jan 93 18:34:28 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <1993Jan27.071519.27098@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>I see that Jack Clark still has a potential useful (even in the 
>Dave Tate sense) role on the Red Sox.  He hit a solid 295/460/421 
>against LHP.  
>

Still? Hmmm...would you give this guy a job at DH?

Year	 AB	 AVG	 OBP	 SLG
 92	162	.160	.278	.247
 91	364	.225	.342	.445
 90	220	.209	.386	.464
 89	330	.230	.383	.467
 88	347	.239	.356	.412
 87	281	.299	.477	.623
 86    sorry, couldn't find it
 85	303	.261	.355	.459
(all numbers above from Elias Abstracts)

88-92  1425	.220	.355	.422
(from Stats 1993 Player Profiles, don't ask me why they don't add up)

Not exactly DH material, except for '87 when half the active
players in baseball seemed to have career years. Well,
that's Jack Clark against right handed pitching. Versus lefties?

Year	 AB	 AVG	 OBP	 SLG
 92	 95	.295	.460	.421
 91	117	.325	.465	.530
 90	114	.377	.541	.667
 89	125	.272	.474	.440
 88	149	.248	.435	.483
 87	138	.261	.480	.543
 85	139	.324	.467	.502

88-92	598	.301	.474	.510

Pretty awesome, huh? I mean, if he played against
nothing but lefties, no one would doubt he was a
hall of famer, and I doubt anyone would imagine 
that the platoon differential was so huge. And for that matter,
it doesn't appear that Clark has gotten that much worse versus
left handed pitching.

Against left handed pitching, Clark belongs in the fat of the order. 
Against righties, his high OBP still merits a place relatively high
in the order, but of course prevailing wisdom is that you don't
want a slug like Jack Clark getting on base in front of your boomers.
(You'd rather have Vince Coleman not getting on base in front of them?)
I'd put him third, because he benefits enormously from men on base:

		Runners on				Bases Empty
 Year	 AB	 AVG	 OBP	 SLG	 	AB	 AVG	 OBP	 SLG
  91	239	.264	.405	.510		242	.236	.342	.421
  90	154	.286	.484	.532		180	.250	.400	.533
  89	230	.274	.471	.552		225	.208    .368	.373
  88	247	.239	.359	.457		249	.244	.371	.409
  87	227	.330	.500	.665		192	.234	.407	.515
  85	233	.283	.379	.506		209	.278	.408	.498

In addition, if there's a guy to bring in with men on base and a lefty
pitcher, Jack Clark's name would be nice to call. Is he fading? Probably,
but it's not like he suddenly stopped hitting right handed pitching. For
that matter, I'd be willing to be that if you got him on a team where
he was going to get a lot more fastballs to look at (as in any team with
some decent power hitters to bat behind him), I'd wager he'd still be
effective, in large part because Clark works the plate and forces a pitcher
to give him the pitch he wants. Sure, his skills are going to degrade over time,
but not as quickly as a "see the ball - hit the ball" player.

Bob Kohout