HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: manu@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Njan)
Subject: Re: M. D. Ramanathan
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 06:29:36 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.232617.4469@colorado.edu> manu@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Njan) writes:
>In article <1992Jul20.091648@IASTATE.EDU> sunder@IASTATE.EDU (Sunder B Athreya) writes:
>>It is heartening to learn that you are an MDR enthusiast. I further agree with
>>you that his music was of a very high quality albiet of a philosophical and
>>cereberal bent. What I do not agree with you about is your conclusion that MDR
>>was the "most unappreciated musical genius of carnatic music". He has
>>considerable following amongst the cognoscenti, all of whom appreciate the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm curious to know where you got that information from... seems like you
have done considerable research to make such a statement...

I had to go around > 30 music shops in 6 different south Indian
cities to get hold of an MDR cassette! ( I did this last month! ). Finally,
I got it from a small shop in Madras which exclusively deals in classical
music ( that's all I saw ). They had "one" copy of the cassette I was 
looking for. The shopkeeper later told me that though MDR was a great
singer, his style isn't too popular among people. ( I guess he knows
what he is talking about! ) If this is any sign of MDR's popularity, then
I stand by my previous statement... given that you could find a GNB or
Ariyakkudi cassette in any of the shops I mentioned... ( both of them
died > 20 years before MDR )

>>distinct style of music brought in by MDR and are probabably not quite so
>>condescending about their discovery. So please feel a little more at ease and
>>enjoy your MDR.

now, who's being condescending?

Njan
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: parrikar@csn.org (Rajan Parrikar)
Subject: Re: Why are carnatic kritis mostly devotional?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 00:46:59 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.171142.11973@doug.cae.wisc.edu> budaraju@cae.wisc.edu (Srinivas Budaraju) writes:
>In article <9207231722.AA26682@cec1.wustl.edu> sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian) writes:
>
>>      I find that most of the kritis
>>  popular and performed often in the
>>  carnatic concerts are devotional in
>>  nature and one can't help thinking
>>  why people have written kritis mostly
>>  singing in praise of God.
>
>>                                - S.Pandian.
>
>I think it has to do with the patronage. In the
>north, the Palace was the patron and hence the 
>secular compositions in Hindustani music. In the

Devotional compositions abound in Hindustani music too (Swami Haridas,
Jayadeva, Surdas, Meerabai, Vishnu Digambar Paluskar, to name a few).

Rajan Parrikar
==============
email: parrikar@mimicad.colorado.edu


>south, temples were the patrons.
>
>-Srinivas			budaraju@cae.wisc.edu


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu (Bob Kosovsky)
Subject: Re: Carmen's recitative...?
Reply-To: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Organization: Computer Center, CUNY Graduate School, New York NY 10036
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:49:59 GMT

In article <1992Jul16.031133.23139@midway.uchicago.edu>, eb11@quads.uchicago.edu (Ernest Barreto) writes:
>I read in the FAQ that Carmen's recitative is not set to music.
>Yet in my recording, the one with Callas, DiStefano and Gobbi,
>they sing it...  What's going on here? Did Bizet score the recit's?

Look a little more carefully at the title page and you'll probably find that
the recitatives were written by Ernest Guiraud.  (At least I think you're
talking about Carmen, since you have the casting incorrect.)

Since I'm sick of working on Bruno Walter at the moment, my mind is
eager to pursue a train of thought.  Having read Richard Taruskin's latest
musings in the current issue of "Early Music" I'm particularly interested in
noting that Carmen was written for the Opera-Comique.  Bizet, like so many other
composers, wrote the opera without recitatives.  When produced at a larger
opera house, it was generally thought that spoken recitatives were less
effective, so they were set to music (enter Guiraud).  Gatti-Casazza at the
Met commissioned conductor Artur Bodanzky to write recitatives for Beethoven's
Fidelio for similar reasons.  I think this was also done for Mozart's
Zauberfloete when it first appeared in Paris in the metamorphisized version
of "Les Mysteries d'Isis."  I'm sure there must be more stories like this,
but my memory fails me.

Ah well - back to Bruno.
Bob Kosovsky
Graduate Center -- Ph.D. Program in Music(student)/ City University of New York
New York Public Library -- Music Division
bitnet:   kos@cunyvms1.bitnet        internet: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Disclaimer:  My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my institutions.
From: jjt@spchsys.spchsys (John J. Turley)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Beethoven Opus & Woo
Date: 21 Jul 92 21:25:49 GMT
Reply-To: jjt@spchsys.UUCP (John J. Turley)
Organization: Speech Systems Incorporated, Tarzana, California

In article <1992Jul20.181317.17734@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie) writes:
>I know that the WoO in some of Beethoven's compositions means work without
>opus number. I think there are about 150 opus numbers, but how many WoOs
>are there. Are they mainly of lesser quality or are there any important
>works by Beethoven that were never graced with an opus? What's the deal?
>   

There is nothing different about these pieces per se. They were simply
not given any opus number. I am unsure, but think there is only about
100 or so WoO works. Again, not having an opus number doesn't mean the
piece is of poorer quality; think of Fuer Elise, or about the many theme
and variations which Beethove composed. (I am particularly fond of the
theme and variations for four hands, WoO 67.)

-John Turley
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie)
Subject: Re: minimalism
Organization: Servio Corp, Beaverton Oregon, US
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 02:55:10 GMT

Brian K. Yoder (brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us) writes:

> Marc San Soucie writes:

> > Brian K. Yoder writes:

> > > I'm glad to hear that "minimalism" is not your "favorite" genre, but how 
> > > can you justify having any desire to listen to it?

> > Same way some folk can justify having a desire to listen to Mozart.

> Ah, then you see no important difference between a Mozart symphony and
> some rattling pots and pans?

I see no difference between the desire to listen to a Mozart symphony and 
the desire to listen to the rattling of pots and pans.


> Would you also apply the same reasoning to
> other kinds of sounds like those produced by the DJ on the radio?

If I like listening to it, I listen to it. Seems pretty simple to me.

    Marc San Soucie
    Portland, Oregon
    marcs@slc.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: lmeissne@milton.u.washington.edu (Loren Meissner)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Pellias
Date: 28 Jul 92 19:11:06 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

Seattle Opera is doing Peillias and Melisadine (I'm probably misspelling this).
Does anyone have any preferences as to which recording (CD "in print")
is the best?
From: s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. Muirden [GA])
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Good version of 'The planets' by Holst?
Date: 23 Jul 92 23:21:40 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia.

I know this much... there is a *hopless* version on Award (a budget
brand) recording by Herbert Von Karajan (of all people) with the
Vienna Philharmonic.. it's dreadful! His version with the Berlin 
Philharmonic was much much much better (no organ!) which I have
on LP.. wonderful...

-richard

-- 
Richard Muirden,                       | Also final year Computer Science
Systems Administrator (unpaid - gasp!) | Student, RMIT. Shostakovich Freak!!
mail: s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU     - ram@lionet.wesley.OZ.AU
     My opinions are my own, not even Spock could work them out!!
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: taha@wichita.cs.tcu.edu (Iraqi_Godfather)
Subject: Beethoven's Complete String Qt.
Originator: taha@wichita
Organization: Texas Christian University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 19:30:14 GMT

Hello Wolrd !

I am new to this group, so I don't know if the following
is a valid query from this newsgroup:

I am a collector of Beethoven's "complete" works.  I am
looking for the best performance of all of his 16 String Qts.
I would like to know the Artists, Label, and U.S. price if possible.
I am only interested in productions with HIGH artistic *AND*
technical quality.

Thanx

Shiek/ Aras Ezadeen Taha
An Iraqi Getting Financially BBQed by Bush's orders !      
                             +----------------------------------------- 
Senior; Computer Science     | Q:  Why Computer Professionals may 
Texas Christian University   |       confuse Halloween and Christmas ?! 
Box 31558, TCU,              | A:  Dec 25 = Oct 31  
Fort Worth, Texas 76129, USA +-----------------------------------------
E-MAIL: taha@riogrande.cs.tcu.edu
From: dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Borodin (was: Dvorak)
Keywords: Dvorak
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:14:43 GMT
Organization: Open Software Foundation

lionel@cs.city.ac.uk (Lionel Tun) writes:
|> 
|> I cannot decide between the Cleveland Quartet on Telarc (coupled with
|> Smetana Qt 1) and the Brodsky Quartet on Teldec.

I was going to stay out of this, 'cos I only have a disrecommendation, but
I *detest* the Cleveland recording.  I even tried to get my money back, and
ended up giving the thing away (which is, I suppose, rather a dubious form
of charity).

To me, they have no idea how to phrase anything.  It sounds all swirly and
disconnected (last time I said this about this recording, there was a short
and intersting discussion about string players learning breathing).

So, by elimination, without having heard it, I can decide: the Brodsky :-)
-- 
David Brooks					dbrooks@osf.org
Open Software Foundation			uunet!osf.org!dbrooks
Six more months!  Six more months!
From: hipychik@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: What if...
Date: 26 Jul 92 03:24:52 -0300
Distribution: rec
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1992Jul24.212756.2172@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu>, colby@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Colby Leider) writes:
> What if...
> ....J.S. Bach were alive today?
> 
> colby leider
> colby@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu
> 

He'd probably be clawing desparately at the inside of his coffin :-)

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: minimalism
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:09:52 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.163015.5902@Princeton.EDU> roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>In article <BrrFJG.EF@quake.sylmar.ca.us> 
>brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:
>
>>but how can you justify having any desire to listen to it?  
>
>Huh?  Why do desires need to be justified? Do I need to justify my
>desire for a chocolate chip cookie?  If I like one, I like one.
>
	Music				Eating Cookies
	-----				--------------
	concerts			solitary
	grants	& awards		pay your own way
	grand theories			side panels on the box
	has metaphysical implications	ontologically neutral
	"anxiety of influence"		worry about getting fat
	best enjoyed in silence		goes with TV
	makes you famous		keep it to yourself
	requires justification		does not require justification
From: hasn@midway.uchicago.edu (Sheheryar Hasnain)
Subject: DANCES IN A MADHOUSE
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:04:39 GMT


Has anyone heard of "Dances in a Madhouse" by Lisner or Listner.  It is 
basically a classical guitar and violin concerto which I heard on the 
University of Chicago radio station.  I have looked up every music
catalogue and checked with most commercial music stores.  Does anyone 
who's heard of it tell me where it is available if it is?
Actually I posted this a few months ago but forgot to check for replies.
Thanks
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: tait@cs.columbia.edu (Carl Tait)
Subject: The Objectivist Definition of Music (was Re: minimalism)
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 23:01:15 GMT

In article <BrrFJG.EF@quake.sylmar.ca.us>
brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:
>I'm glad to hear that "minimalism" is not your "favorite" genre, but how can
>you
>justify having any desire to listen to it?  Or are you another of these
>"Lustigians"
>who don't think that there is any way to evaluate musical quality aside from
>knee-jerk emotionalism which is beyond explanation?

Before the flame fest gets started again, would you please provide
direct, well-reasoned answers to the following central questions:

(1) How are "metaphysical value judgments" (MVJs) expressed in a
piece of music (program music excepted, of course)?  How can we, as
listeners, determine what MVJs a composer *intended* to express?
Finally, how can we objectively determine how well a composer has
met the goal of expressing those MVJs?  To simplify matters, please
choose one of the following well-known, well-respected pieces as the
basis for your explanation:

Mozart: Symphony No. 40
Beethoven: String Quartet Op. 131
Schubert: Piano Sonata in B-flat major
Brahms: Violin Concerto
Rachmaninoff: Piano Concerto No. 2

(2) How do composers like Webern, Berg, and Boulez fit into your view
of what constitutes "music"?  Based on your previous postings, it seems
safe to assume that you loathe all of these composers, but do they fall
under your definition of music?  Why or why not?  And if they *are*
music, what do you dislike about them?

>P.S. Yes, I am back!

I'm sure everyone else is as excited as I am.

Carl Tait
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Composition
From: elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies)
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:26:39 EDT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Harvard Math Department

In article <1992Jul21.204019.13093@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu>
colby@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Colby Leider) writes:

>Are there any composers out there on the net?

Yes, there are a few of us out here.  We rarely discuss our
music here, probably because there isn't a good way to transmit
it over USENET; most of the music that gets discussed in
rec.music.classical is widely enough available in score
and/or recording that this isn't (as much of) a problem.
You still do see occasional concert announcements, and
there was also the short-lived thread about commissioning
protocol a few weeks ago.

--Noam D. Elkies (elkies@zariski.harvard.edu)
  Department of Mathematics, Harvard University
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rtut@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Raymond Tuttle)
Subject: Choral discs by Slavyanka, St. John's
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 22:24:36 GMT

There are few similarities between British and Russian choral
traditions, but the most headily beautiful aspects of both are presented
on two new CDs. Both "The Sound of St. John's" (Nimbus NI 5335) and
"Russian Choral Music" (Harmonia Mundi HMU 907098) are outstanding
discs and should appeal to listeners with diverse musical tastes. 

The disc from St. John's marks the end of more than four decades of
direction from choirmaster George Guest.  Guest has said "I used to
spend a lot of time trying to convince the choir that the audience didn't
matter at all. They were singing services to the glory of God." This CD
attests to the merit of this approach; while the choir of King's College,
for example, is more technically polished, performances by St. John's
have a matchless spiritual quality which transcends everything else. 

This disc includes music by Tippett, Langlais, Orr, Hoddinott and
Howells. Howells was an unfamiliar name to me, and the three works
included here made a deep impression with their subtle beauty and rich
harmonies. No stereotypical British pallor here! This CD is worth
hearing for them alone. 

The recording was made last summer in St. John's chapel, and it is very
atmospheric without being overly reverberant, adding greatly to the
effect of the music. With over 70 minutes of mostly unfamiliar music
in fine performances, this disc should be self-recommending. 

If anything, the Russian disc by San Francisco's all-male Slavyanka
Chorus is even more impressive. They perform unaccompanied liturgical
music from several centuries, some of it richly polyphonic, and some of
it just simple, stark and powerful.  

There are no Russian-sounding names in Slavyanka, but their sound is
the "real thing," down to the gut-rumbling bass notes. It is an old
commonplace that only Russian choirs can perform works like these in
an authentic style, but this disc should provoke a reexamination of that
way of thinking.  This is Russia the dark and devout in all of her
burnished glory.  

The presentation is excellent. All sung texts are included in Cyrillic,
transliterations and English translations, and the notes are helpful is
setting the historical background of this music. Given all this, plus the
wonderfully detailed recording, this disc will probably be on my short
list of favorite releases on 1992  when the year comes to an end. 




--
****************************************   Raymond S. Tuttle
"Dunkel ist das Leben, ist der Tod,"       University of Rochester
but it's nothing to get depressed about!   (still with his two little 
****************************************   white mice).
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Beethoven's violin concerto
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:21:19 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.070755.11948@ichips.intel.com> mehul@pdx212 (Mehul Dave) writes:

>1. Is this the only violin concerto Beethoven wrote?  I ask this
>   because it did not say Violin concerto number 1 or 2 etc.

Yes, it's his only violin concerto.  (He did also write a "triple
concerto" for violin, cello, and piano.)

>2. In the cassette flap, I found the following:

>   "Cadenzas adapted for the violin by Wolfgang Schneiderhan from those
>    Beethoven composed for his arrangement of this concerto for piano
>    and orchestra".

>  Did Beethoven intend this concerto to be played on piano?  I must
>  admit, to me the violin seemed perfect but then I haven't heard it on
>  piano.

He wrote it for violin.  He later did an arrangement (on commission) for
piano.  One or two pianists have recorded the piano arrangement, which
is interesting to hear once or twice (it's still good music, and
Beethoven-the-arranger can be fascinating); but everyone agrees that
violin is the work's proper medium.  What makes the piano version
tantalizing, though, is that only for that version did Beethoven write
cadenzas.  Several, including Schneiderhan, have been tempted to try to
"back-transcribe" those for violin, and thus have "genuinely"
Beethovenian cadenzas for the violin concertos.  None of the attempts
I've heard at this have been very convincing.  How do Schneiderhan's
work?

>3. Can you recommend any good CD recordings of this concerto?  I like
>   the one I have on cassette but I want to see if I can find a better
>   one.  I realize that different people have different idea of a
>   "good" recording but I'd like to get your opinion on your favorite
>   and what you like about it.

I don't know if it's on CD (it certainly ought to be), but my favorite
recording of the work is played by Arthur Grumiaux, with Alceo Galliera
conducting the London Sympony.  It's on Philips, in good late-60s stereo
(i.e., competitive with modern sound).  Beautifully conceived and
played, with everything fitting together ideally, and far better than
Grumiaux's later recording with Colin Davis.

Jon Alan Conrad
From: spxsjm@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr S J Morris 92)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Looking for recording of Vaughan Williams "Folk Song Suite" done
Summary: Yes, there certainly is one.
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:14:09 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College at Cardiff
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

In article <SOMMERFELD.92Jul23154531@gourmet.apollo.hp.com> sommerfeld@apollo.hp.com (Bill Sommerfeld) writes:
|I'm looking for a recording of Vaughan Williams's "Folk Song Suite"
|performed by a concert band (the original version was written for
|"military band"); the only one I've been able to find in the record
|stores is a recording of the later arrangement for symphony orchestra,
|which just isn't the same.

There certainly is a recording available. I have a copy at home, which
I bought a month or two ago - it's absolutely superb. Unfortunately I
don't have it with me and I'm about to go on holiday, so I can't give
you the reference no. or the other cataloguing details. Suffice to say
that it's published (in the UK) by EMI, the title of the tape is
"British Music for Concert Band", and the items on it (in order)
are:
 Holst's Suites nos. 1 and 2 for Military Band 
 Grainger's Childrens' Overture: Over the Hills and Far Away
            Irish Tune from County Derry
            Country Gardens
 VW's English Folk Song Suite.

So, if you have a look in the "Gramophone" catalogue (or whatever the US
equivalent is), then armed with this information you should be able to
find what you're looking for.

Steve Morris,
Department of Physics, University of Wales College of Cardiff.
(...definitely the place to be - they're performing the Folk Song Suite
in the St. David's Hall here tomorrow night... Trouble is, I'll be on
holiday in West Wales so I'll miss it...)
From: kaf8f@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Keith Andrew Falconer)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Beethoven's violin concerto
Date: 30 Jul 92 02:44:06 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

Gidon Kremer's recording of this work  on DGG is well worth
recommending, if only for the cade by Alfred Schnittketke - a
strange and (in my view) surprisingly effective juxtaposition 
of old and new.
--
Keith Falconer                kaf8f@virginia.EDU    Anybody got a
McIntire Department of Music  Tel: (804) 296-0926   green card they'd
University of Virginia                              care to lend me?
Charlottesville VA 22903     
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical