From: prock@teetot.acusd.edu (Big A)
Subject: Re: Timing and what it all means
Organization: University of San Diego, Earth
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 07:48:46 GMT

In article <Bz3675.1F@news.cso.uiuc.edu> skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian) writes:
>scott@athena.mit.edu (Scott D Bradburn) writes:
>
>>[discussion of escaping SPD 'combos' deleted]
>
>>Case two:  Slower bufferred moves such as Ken/Ryu roundhouse sweep/fireball or
>>Zangief roundhouse sweep/SPD by design only result in one hit.  In Ken/Ryu's
>>case that's either a sweep to knock the opponent down, or a mark off 
>>for blocking a fireball.  

That's because you are using the wrong sweep.  If you want a sweep combo 
connect then you  must use either the short or the forward.  You must
also be close to the opponent.  If the distance is too great then you 
will not connect in the combo. 

>>In Zangief's case, that's being knocked down by the roundhouse
>>or blocking it and being hauled up for the big splat.  (Even worse, if you
>>DON'T block the roundhouse, he'll do it again, until you DO get hauled up
>>by the big splat.)  But, these moves don't actually buffer fast enough in
>>series to GUARANTEE the second move a hit.  

Again this is not a proper combo if you want to do it right use the 
forward.

>>This is when Zangief gets DP'd
>>out of an attempted SPD or other nasty counters.  With Ken/Ryu a player
>>could DP through the fireball after the roundhouse, and Vega and Chun Li
>>can often jump the fireball, because neither of these 'combos' buffer
>>fast enough to prevent the opponent from coming out of block.
>
>>That is why certain Zangief throw combos are not true combos.  Although,
>>to the best of my knowledge, and my opponents violent attempts at DP's and
>>body balls, I think the short sweep/buffered SPD is uncounterable.

Yep.  This is a pain in the butt.  But the forward is even more so.  
Longer "stun" time leads to shorter window which I have never been able
to "open" nor has anyone else I have watched play.  (hi Seth:)

>>In summary:  Yes, DP's and other special moves will break out of at least
>>some Zangief SPD 'combos' because your oppent recovers from blocking in
>>time for a counter move.  That's what separates throw 'combos' from true
>>combos.  Opponents reel from hits for a longer time when they stay in
>>the block position, which prevents counter attacks and blocking of
>>any subsequent attacks.
>
>       [some words of wisdom on psychological playing]  
>	a moment do I dispute the claim that Z has great moves.  I still 
>	maintain that they are, however, not true combos, merely a failing 
>	on my behalf.  Try the same combo 2 or 3 times in a row, I can assure
>	you, you too will become a believer.  No throw combos.
>
>		Seth Killian

Once again your modesty outdoes yourself Seth.  You say it is your failing
that allows the combo to connect.  I maintain that it is Eu-Ming's error
that allows you to DP.  Now I do in fact hold both of your skills in high
regard.  So the question becomes...
Is your modesty warented or not?

BTW Seth could you please learn to edit your post's just a little.
All the extraneous stuff gets a little cumbersome at times.  
(When a 400 line post contains only 50-100 lines of original text
it can be a bit tiresome pushing spacebar eight times, to get to
it, especially over a modem:)

Andrew Prock


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