Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hellas
Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 22:19:59 EDT
Reply-To:     L Irakliotis <IRAKLIOT@MIAMIU.BITNET>
From:         L Irakliotis <IRAKLIOT@MIAMIU.BITNET>
Subject:      Antapanthsh ston tseligka.
Comments: To: Tseligas koumparos <LPETROPO@SBCCVM.BITNET>

On Mon, 13 Apr 1992 21:17:17 EDT Tseligkas koumparos said:
> Gia katse re Lewvida, poia eivai n apavtnsn sou sto erwtnma mou; Posoi apo
> tous prwtodesmoites tns ta3ns sou pngav se frovtnstnrio; (Dev 3erw tnv nlikia
> sou egw milaw gia 83-86 epoxes,kai 3erw oti n parapaidia av0ouse ragdaia tote
> ).Emeva pavtws oloi oi prwtodesmntes tns epoxns mou (85) pngav frovtnstnrio,
> ektos emeva giati 0a erxomouva Amerikn kai dev me evoiaze.

Yparxoyn dyo-treis meletes toy paidagwgikoy institoytoy epi dieyuynsews
Mpampiniwth,   poy  eixane   bgalei  ena   15-20%  twn   eisaktewn  sta
panepisthmia  na mhn  exoyne paei  se  frontisthrio. Egw  ua elega  pws
einai sxetika ajiopisth statistikh mias  kai o Mpampiniwths ebgaine kai
sto Omileite Ellhnika (rabdos en gwnia ara brexei) :-)

> Oso gia tous ka0ngntes les oti movo evas Fusikos dev ntav kalos. Emeva sto
> Lukeio Glyfadas pou pnga ntav oloi gia klamata. Afou oi idioi oi ka0ngntes
> elegav oti: e ti va paradwsw to parakatw afou to kavate sto frovtnstnrio.

Ayto  den  einai  problhma  toy  ekpaideytikoy  systhmatos  alla  einai
problhma  toy sxoleioy  sas, twn  mauhtwn  ekeinhs ths  epoxhs kai  toy
syllogoy gonewn  kai khdemonwn sas.  Emas pantws o _malakas_  o fysikos
poy eixame phre podi se 4 mhnes.

Pantws  h  xarakthristikh nootropia  poy  anafereis  parapanw, me  toys
kauhghtes na  lene "ti na  sas ta pw  afoy ta kanate  sto frontisthrio"
einai gegonos.  Omws janarwtw:  poia h  oysiastikh diafora  metajy enos
kauhghth frontisthrioy  kai enos  kauhghth lykeioy? Exoyn  proeruei apo
diaforetika  panepisthmia; Exoyn  diaforetikoys titloys  spoydwn; Exoyn
kalytero baumo ptyxioy; Statistika, oxi.

Aplws  exei dhmioyrghuei  mia Eunikh  prokatalhch sthn  Ellada pws  ola
mauainontai  sto  frontisthrio.  Paramyuia.  To mono  poy  kynhgoyn  ta
panepisthmia einai na  piasoyn oso pio polla apo ta  uemata twn Genikwn
Ejetasewn.  Epi ths oysias omws, de diaferoyn apo ta sxoleia.

> Ta aitia mallov 0a ta ebriskes av apavtouses tnv prwtn mou erwtnsn. Fusika
> koitaw ta aitia kai auto mou leei oti n parousia tous ekei eivai avagkaia
> av krivw apo tnv poiotnta twv dikwv mou ka0ngntwv sto gymvasio.

H  paroysia  toys (twn  frontisthriwn)  ua  htan dikaiologhmenh  an  me
kapoion tropo synteloysan sth beltiwsh  ths poiothtas twn kauhghtwn ths
Meshs  Ekpaideyshs.  Ara, h  yparjh  frontisthriwn  einai aney  oysias.

> Episns paei va pei oti ta gumvasia ta Ellnvika exouv avebasmevo epipedo
> epitndes,gia va mnv mpaivei o opoiosdnpote mesa, alla autos o logos pairvei
> sto laimo tou kai ta ftwxa Ellnvopoula pou dev exouv lefta gia frovtnstnria.
> Anagaia ,... kai bebaia avagkaia (blepe diaron 0ematwv!!!)

Ma ti grafeis twra  edw; Kati soy jefyge na poyme.  Nwris ua ta piasate
ta  tsipoyra  apoce koympar',  kai  zalisthkes  na  poyme. Gia  des  an
bgainei akrh ap'osa grafeis parapanw :-))

>Apo ta logia tou bgaivei oti to Ellnviko systnma paidias kai pro0nsews ma0ntwv
>(kai milame pavta gia gymvasia-lukeia) eivai katwtero tou Amerikavikou. Twra
>oi logoi eivai polu...(blepe:Centralization vs decentralization of educational
>administration)

Apo  ta logia  moy bgainei  to  symperasma pws  exoyme dyo  diaforetika
systhmata ajiologhshs  kai prowuhshs  talentwn. Poio  einai perissotero
apotelesmatiko;  Dyskolh erwthsh.  Blepontas  mia  prosfath meleth  toy
American Institute  of Physics  poy leei pws  to 55%  twn metaptyxiakwn
foithtwn fysikhs sta amerikanika panepisthmia einai jenoi kai blepontas
ta onomata aytwn poy kanoyn dhmosieyseis sta IEEE Transactions ua elega
pws to  amerikaniko systhma  kapoy xwlainei. Ena  proswpiko paradeigma:
thn kanw toy xronoy sto  ColoState gia Electrical Engineering. Koitoysa
loipon  tis proalles  ta onomata  twn kauhghtwn  ekei kai  to mono  poy
mporoysa  na proferw  htan toy  Periklh toy  Mhtka. Oi  ypoloipoi einai
kinezoi kai indoi :-)

>Teliko sumperasma:Egw pisteuw oti to Amerikaviko sustnma ma0nsns se gumvasiako
>level eivai kalutero giati otav dnmiourgn0nke eixe sav focus tou tov ma0ntn
>kai oxi tis avagkes tou kratous, sto 0ema tou,va kopsei osous mporei stis
>eisagwgikes logo aveparkeia 0esewv. Avgxos kai pieseis koivwvikes odngouv tous
>Ellnves ma0ntes stnv parapaidia.

Ma eite  odhghuoyn sthn parapaideia oi  Ellhnes eite oxi, pali  o idios
ariumos foithtwn  ua perasoyn sta  panepisthmia. Den allazei  tipota. H
basikoterh  diafora  metajy  amerikanikoy kai  ellhnikoy  ekpaideytikoy
systhmatos einai pws sthn Ellada  exoyme "national curriculum" enw sthn
Amerikh den  exoyn. Dhladh h  didaktea ylh  sthn Ellada einai  koinh se
oloklhrh thn epikrateia enw edw  diaferei apo school district se school
district.  So far for equal opportunities!

Ayta pros to paron.

PS:
Koitajte: h  ellhnikh paideia exei xilia  dyo problhmata se ola  ths ta
epipeda. Alla opws  janapa, dwste moy enan xarth me  synora mono kai ua
sas  balw xwres  kai prwteyoyses  stis  swstes ueseis.  Rwthste me  gia
ellhniko syntaktiko, gia syllabismo, gia istoria, gia poihsh kai ua sas
apanthsw. Rwthste kai  t'amerikanakia eite einai sto MIT  eite einai se
community college ...  u'apelpisteite.
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