HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 09:46:57 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
              28 Aug 1992 10:36:59 -0400 from <SPRG0002@TULSAJC>

Robert:

You haven't been paying attention.  The abortion figure is now *30*
million in the U.S.

4000 a day.  Tick....tick....tick.

--Missy P 2 B
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Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 13:48:23 -0400
From:         KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU
Subject: Re: is Clinton being anxious? and is NBC being less than
              objective?

Hi, folks:
For what it's worth, Tom Brokaw (is that the NBC guy?) prefaced a taped
interview with Clinton -- shown during the R. convention -- with the
statement that NBC had contacted Bush and Quayle about providing responses
during the D. convention.  They declined.

Oh, and while I'm here :)
I second the appeals from MacPhil and my esteemed running mate for a halt
to these long posts about Clinton campaign trivia etc.  If you've got
something to share, drop us a line and those of us who're interested can
respond privately.

Thanks
Kerry
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
From: jwales@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (jimmy donal wales)
Subject: Re: Forwarded mail for LISTS.POLITICS
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 16:48:46 GMT

jcs <GE777009@BROWNVM.BITNET> writes:
>Ok, how about a show of hands here.  Who thinks that its MORE selfish
>to hoist your morals on others?
>
>ok, and now, who thinks its selfish to have children you can't
>take care of?
>

As the resident ethical egoist, I will have to take issue here with the
casual use of the word 'selfish' to imply immorality of some sort.
The proper use of the word 'selfish' does not involve a moral condemnation
(or approval).  I, for one, don't think that one's properly considered
self-interest includes taking immoral actions.

As far as the specific questions... I don't think that it is in your
selfish interest to 'hoist' my morals onto others.  I do talk about my
morals with others, for a couple of reasons.  First, I think that if
people understand and accept my moral position, they will be less of
a danger to me than if they select some other moral position.  Second,
I know that by being tolerant and listening to others, I can learn to
behave more ethically myself.  I _do_ advocate certain laws (for example,
the right to self-defense) which might be construed as 'hoisting' my 
moral code onto potential murderers, but I don't think that that is
what you had in mind.

And the other specific question: Do I think that it is selfish to have
children that you can't take care of?  No, I do not.  I don't see what
sensible rendering of a person's self-interest would include having
starving or unwanted children around!  The far more selfish act is to
follow the policy my own wife and I have taken: responsible birth control.
Another selfish approach is the one taken by a quasi-famous philosopher
friend of mine: wait to have kids until you have a good career and a
stable homelife... so that the kids can be a precious joy.

That is my take on selfishness.

--Jimbo



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Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 13:02:30 CDT
From:         "The Truth (some assembly required)" <T9AA@SDSUMUS.BITNET>
Subject:      double standards in the twin cities

     again, an over-wide post forces me to indent. I thought I
     put a stop to this a while ago.

Recently, Leise, or someone claiming to be the redhead with the southern
drawl, was complaining about LOPC (Lack 'O Political Content) in various
postings.

     Yes, that does sound like anneliese.

Wasn't she the one who treated us to a play-by-play of a trip to the mall?
Let's be consistent!!!

     A play-by-play of me, mr. radical anarchist wierdo, going to
     brooks brothers to buy a suit. That *could* be enterpreted as
     a metaphor for the gentrification and cooptation of independant
     political thought into mainstream political structures. Since
     I'm not a critical theorist and normally think accessive use
     or metaphor weakens any argument, I will not make that argument,
     saying instead that those actions involved two long-time members
     of the POLITICS list and therefore it is worthy of inclusion.

fred

Music trivia question: When the monkees toured in 1969, who was their
opening act?

     Jimi Hendrix

Dave, a journalism/english major and trivia fanatic
t9aa@sdsumus.bitnet
There was a time when reporters were a totally discredited assortment of
slouching, ill-bred, ill-shaven, tubercular alcoholics in dirty clothes,
with morals to match, and a cigarette sticking out of the corners of
their mouths.
Today, things are different.  Thanks to your generous responses to the
Christmas Seal campaign, tuberculosis has been almost totally eradicated.
              --Fil Racette of the Paw Paw (Mich.) Courier-Leader

Disclaimer:  The opinions contained in this post are not the
opinions of the Administration, Faculty, or Student Body of
South Dakota State University.  Hell, they might not even
be mine.
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Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 02:38:00 EST
From:         Tyrone Slothrop <199561011@VUVAXCOM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: To Missy: On Wrongness

From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: To Missy: On Wrongness


Richard:

How do numbers fit into all of this?  If one person in a society does
not share the desire of the majority for him to be killed (for
entertainment, enjoyment, and because they have no aversion to his
death and in fact believe that he would be better off dead), is it
"good" to kill him anyway?  How many must have an aversion to something
for that thing to be not "good" anymore?  What is the cutpoint here
at which society changes its views of "good" and "bad"?  And who sits
around calculating all the aversions and figuring out the needs and
desires of society, and makes the rules?  Some philosopher?

--Missy P 2 B

        hmmm.  well, actually, its not just "some" philosopher.
        there is a group of us that meets secretly.  shirley maclaine
        comes and channels aristotle for us.

        brni
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Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:48:57 -0400
From:         SPRG0002@TULSAJC.BITNET

 *** Resending note of 08/26/92 13:21

 >Do you really have so much of an abortion fetish (or so much pent-up hatred
 >against liberals - the two seem interchangeable at this stage) that you
 >cannot grant Clinton even the slightest compliment?  If it was a joke,
 >then it certainly ranks up there with last months homosexual jokes, so maybe
 >I shouldn't be surprised.

 >james p mc bride

 Abortion is no fetish.  Abortion is the wanton slaughter of helpless
 children.

 It should humor you to know, if I cast a vote for President this year it
 will be for Clinton.  Although I detest the Democratic platform and most of
 Billy's plans, I respect him/them for standing by them.  Bush, on the other
 hand, IMO would sell his mother if it was expedient for his political
 aspirations.

 ---Robert
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:07:15 -0400
From:         "Robert sprg0002@tulsajc.bitnet" <SPRG0002@TULSAJC.BITNET>
Subject:      what is this world coming to

 I'm sure you'll all remember my post of July something or other.  In it
 I mentioned that Tulsa was having a mayoral election with 57 candidates
 and no primary, the result of the current mayor stepping down to assume
 a college presidency.

 Well the unspeakable has happened!  We have a (shhhhhhhhhhhh) f e m a l e
 mayor.  Does this spell the end for Gotha... opps, Tulsa?  Tune in again
 to see Fatman and Blunder Boy arrested for opening the courthouse doors for
 the honorable Susan Savage.

 ---Robert

 "Abortion has saved us from looking at a lot of childish art"
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 08:46:14 EST
From:         macphil <IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU>
Subject:      Re: nonpolitical quote
Comments: To: Forum for the Discussion of Politics <POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>

On Fri, 28 Aug 1992 01:20:48 EST Kerry Stephenson said:
>Hi Y'all:
>
>I know this isn't really political, but I just had to tell somebody
>that I knew would be smart enough to know what's wrong with this
>quote:
>
>[This guy killed his parents.  He gave an exclusive interview to the
>Channel 6 news, in which he expressed remorse.  This is what the
>anchor said]:   "said he was sorry for what he did and whished he had
>to do it over again."

It's interesting other details were left out.  Whilst he provided an
exclusive interview to WRTV, WISH (Channel 8) said he walked into the
living room, asked for some money and upon being refused, found a gun
and shot them.  Also, they were very careful to use the phrase
"adopted son" early & often when talking about him.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The lesser of two evils is still evil." - Winston Churchill

MacPhil / iqti400@indycms.bitnet / iqti400@indycms.iupui.edu
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Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 20:26:17 -0400
From:         KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU
Subject:      demo platform revisited

Hi, folks.
Well, I did something that maybe resulted in those of you who requested it
receiving the Democratic Party Platform.  If it worked, great.  If it
didn't, talk to the little creature who lives in my computer and takes care
of these things.

I don't have a Republican Platform, but wish I did.  From the few exerpts
(excerpts?  sp??) I've seen, it's lots more fun than this one.  But longer.

Happy reading.  If anyone else wants one, mail me private.  If you send a
bitnet address, I can send it as a network file.  Otherwise, it's a *big*
piece of mail :)

Kerry
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Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 11:14:35 -0500
From:         Jason Briggs Cormier <CORJB@RHODES.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: an ounce of prevention, etc.

>It seems blatantly simple that the easiest way to reduce the number of
>abortions is to reduce the number of UNWANTED pregnancies. Yet, the rtl
>groups are opposed to sexual education and distribution of birth control
>in the schools. Just say no is just as effective for birth control as it
>is for drugs, that is, if you add an W to the end of the slogan it will
>reveal the prevailing attitude toward sex.

I agree a log.  Why is it that few groups really seem
focus on education?  Or is it just that sex ed no longer
really makes the news?  If this is the case is it a result
of journalists trying to sell a story and looking for issues
that sell better like pro-life activists chaining themselves
to things?

>I didn't catch the source but a poll on the radio today said that 68%
>of americans are in favor of distributing condoms in schools. Missy
>tells us that only 10% of americans favor a total ban on abortions.

I have a comment on this.  Here at Rhodes, Memphis, Tenn.,
the student body, through Student Assembly proposed a
whatever to get condom machines in the dorm restrooms.
It was totally denied.  President Jim Daughdrill essentially
said that there was no need to do this, implying that
students here don't practise sex at all(I am going on hearsay,
so don't shoot me if I'm incorrect, though why anyone on the
list would be able to prove me wrong, I don't know.).  There
is also a policy that states that Rhodes employees can't give
condoms out to students.  This goes so far as to include
the students who are Resident Assistants.

There are some things that I really can't understand and this
is one.  Safe sex is better than diseased people.

Json
>fred
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Date:         Sat, 29 Aug 1992 11:09:19 -0500
From:         "VALENTINE M. SMITH" <CDELL@UMKCVAX1.BITNET>
Subject:      Comments on numbers ...

I have watched this abortion numbers process with interest, and decided
to calculate what 30 million abortions over 19 years, (including all of
1973, and all of this year) might mean. That's 1,578,947 per year, or
125,000 (rounded off) per month, or 4107 per day. But, and I recall asking
this question once before, and hearing silence on the matter - doesn't the
FACT that 30,000,000 million abortions HAVE occurred indicate need, reason,
or purpose for them having happened? One other thing - the Holocaust was
done to people for specifically negative purposes, and I believe most
abortions occur for positively motivated reasons - long term survival of
the family, interactions, etc. Could all the systems that are overloaded
now - health care, schools, counselling, courts, welfare, et al - stand
30,000,000 more people? Personally, I actually agree with Barbara Bush on
this - it IS A MATTER OF PERSONAL DECISION, not a matter for the state, or
the would-be imposers of "Christian morality." VMS
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 20:15:13 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Quotes by Conservatives

Elizabeth G:

I have the text of Pat Buchanan's speech to the convention.  If you like,
I can send it to you.  (You might just be able to get it from where I
did--the les-bi-gay list on netnews.)

I'll see what else I can dig up.

I assume you already have Bush's presidential speeches?

--Missy P 2 B
From: CARROLL@SCC.BITNET (Roger)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Cleaning off the desk on a Friday
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:47:05 GMT
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I have to respond to a few published items on the list:
------------------------------------------------------
1.  --KAT:  Chris Wallace did the interview with the Dan/Marilyn last night,
            not Mike.
------------------------------------------------------
2.  --linda:  Your last post on abortion was, to say the least, very
              impressive.
------------------------------------------------------
3.

>From a Time/CNN Poll, published in Time 8/31:
>
>Q.  Which position best represents your views about abortion?
>
>    *  A woman should be able to get an abortion
>       no matter what the reason                           49%
>
>    *  Abortion should be legal only in certain
>       circumstances                                       38%
>
>    *  Abortion should be illegal in all
>       circumstances                                       10%
>
>(Assuming we accept these as valid numbers), if this isn't a
>cultural divide, I don't know what is.
>
>--Missy P 2 B

Missy:  If the vote in November were:
                                           Bush        49%
                                           Clinton     38%
                                           Perot       10%

       you would call it a LANDSLIDE.
------------------------------------------------------
   And now.......

   Another in the series of topical George Bush quotes...
   ..(thanks to Gary Stephens - Dublin City University, Ireland)

"I say the same thing I say to a person whose family was maimed by a pistol or
an explosive charge or whatever else it might be - a fire - this is bad."

      - Bush on families of victims of gun violence, March 1989.

                              ---roger
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 11:14:11 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
              28 Aug 1992 11:58:53 EDT from <MEC038@UKCC.UKY.EDU>

KAT:

Well, in 1965, Planned Parenthood said that abortion and birth control
are most definitely not the same.

--Missy P 2 B
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Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 12:41:49 CDT
From:         fred <CCHILDER@UNMCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: youthful punks

Robert says (more or less): "Maybe time in the military will be more
useful than time spent drinking and using drugs".(for young adults)

Did you miss the tailhook scandel? I have a lot of vietnam-era veteran
friends who would argue that the military is a better place to begin
a career in alcohol and drug abuse than to avoid same.

Remember during the cold war when we had national disaster teams and
bomb shelters in place? Something like Andrew shows the glaring lack of
planning for national emergencies. It seems like the military could help
in this area now that we are further from nuclear disaster.

fred
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 16:38:00 EDT
From:         Travis Kidd <TKIDD@CLEMSON.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Quotes by Conservatives

On Mon, 24 Aug 1992 08:32:36 GMT Elizabeth Gilliam <bee@MS.UKY.EDU> said:
> For some research I am doing, i would like any copies of
> speeches, or sources of quotes about ideas, policies, or
> just anything by any of the modern conservatives, including....
>
> Bush
> Quayle
> David Duke
> Pat Buchanan
>
> and anyone else.
>
> (vague enough for ya?)
> --
> elizabeth a. gilliam: bee@ms.uky.edu
> If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.

God I wish I had the exact quotes.  Here are a few semi-exact quotes...
If some-one has the exacts, pleeze post them.

What a terrible thing to lose one's mind, or not to have a mind at all.
   -Quayle to the United Negro College Fund

We're not going to let you (Bush) drag America into your new world
order, we're going to take America back!!
   -Pat Buchanan speaking after his losses in Michigan and Illinois

I believe in equal opportunity for all black and white in this country.
   -David Duke, outside the Holiday Inn in Anderson, SC, over the
    screams of people who drove 20 miles from Clemson University,
    where Duke had just spoken, to continue their annoying protests.
    (I was there, I know.)

Amen.
    -Pat Robertson on the 700 Club

If I were to tell you four years ago that the Cold War would be over
during my first term of office, you would think that I had been
smoking something, and that I had inhaled.
    -George Bush to the Republican National Convention

I'm telling you he's lying.
    -Robert Dole to Dan Rather(?), referring to Bush, who was joining
     the two by satellite, in 1988.

I believe in the worth of all human life, born and unborn.
    -George Bush to the Republican National Convention

Hope this helps.
-Travis

If men can get pregnant, then Yeltsin is President of Russia.
(A logically true statement.)
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 15:21:00 EDT
From:         "Peter J. Schledorn" <UNCPJS@UNC.BITNET>
Subject: Re: About Buchanan

> >Say what?  You apply the pre-1981 rate structure to current incomes,
> >and calculate the result.  That's how you figure out the revenue changes
> >that will be caused by changes in the tax laws.
>
> You can't do that if you don't have information about deductions that
> aren't available now but were then.  Tax law does affect behavior.
> Moreover, we don't know that people would have earned the same.  You
> can't argue that tax preferences affect behavior while claiming that
> tax rates don't.

We were talking about what would happen if the pre-1981 tax structure
were restored, not what would have happened if the 1981 cuts had never
occurred (at least that's what _I_ was talking about).  This grew out
of a discussion on the predicted revenue effects of the Clinton tax
plan.  Since you're citing arguments I didn't make, I don't know what
the hell you're talking about now.

> >> I thought that govt is now taking in a greater fraction of GNP than it
> >> was then, if so, it's not obvious how going back would result in an
> >
> >I wouldn't be at all surprised, if you include state and local taxes,
>
> It was my impression that it was true IGNORING state and local taxes.

No.  In 1980 Federal personal income taxes were 8.9 percent of GNP.  By
1988 they were 8.2 percent.  Over the same years corporate income taxes
went from 2.4 percent of GNP to 1.9 percent.   That trend may have
reversed by now, what with the 1990 tax bill and the sluggish growth of
the GNP, but I haven't seen the more recent numbers.  If income taxes
were the same percentage of GNP in 1988 as they were in 1980, they would
have been about $58 billion higher.

Best,
Peter

> -andy
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Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 15:30:00 -0400
From:         "Michael J. McCarthy" <YEA003@MARSHALL.MU.WVNET.EDU>
Subject:      Re: democratic platform/labor unions

Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 14:44:18 -0400
From: SPRG0002@TULSAJC.BITNET
>
> The need for vigilance has not been questioned, of course we must continue to
> watch for abuses.  Let's compromise.  Why not skip the strikes, which benefit
> no one, and go directly to binding arbitration?

        Robert here touches on a strategic and philosophical dilemma of the
labor movement.  Labor unions exist to secure benefits for their members.  If
the union leaders can obtain greater benefits in contract negotiations by
promising to forego strike tactics, should they do so?  By doing so, they
relinquish labor's most (and in reality only) weapon.  Also, they undermine the
idea of transindustrial solidarity.  But, again, if they can benefit their
members, should they agree to these compromises?  What is the list opinion on
this?

        On an side note, will anyone on the list be in Lawrence, Kansas,
between 16 September and 20 September?  I will be their to present a paper at
the Mid-America History Conference, but it appears that I will have some time
to kill.

Mike McCarthy
Marshall Univ. Dept. of History
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