HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: awkerr@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Alan Kerr)
Subject: Re: Terminology Re: meat eaters (was: Re: Gun Control Petition)
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 23:09:12 GMT

In article <50730@shamash.cdc.com> ldh@svl.cdc.com (Lawrence D. Hare) writes:
>I lost the last paragraph to my previous missive on this subject. My news
>server has decided not to allow me to add to a thread. So excuse the
>confusion.
>
>After my suggestion of alternative terms there was:
>
>Anyway - I agree with Ted's suggestion of using the term semi-vegetarian,
>a term of some sort - any sort - is needed. Giving up things we have
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The term that I've come up with is : sans rouge (french for 'without
red')

1) most of the people that give vegetarians the *most* trouble are the
people that have given up 'red meat' (hence: sans rouge) and are now
calling themselves 'vegetarian'.

2) the term does *NOT* contain the word 'vegetarian', so there is less
chance for misunderstanding.  after all, to a waiter, "vegetarian",
"lacto-vegetarian", and "semi-vegetarian", etc. *all* sound like
variations on the types of vegetarian there are.  ...even if that last
one isn't a 'real' vegetarian.  all a waiter might know is that
someone said that they were <mumble-mumble>-vegetarian and *they*
ordered fish, so vegetarians must eat fish.

3) It's french, so those "PC-lower your cholesterol-oh look how
environmentally aware I am"-types just *might* pick up the word.

...so what do you think?

Alan
-- 
Alan W. Kerr                               awkerr@aoc.nrao.edu
National Radio Astronomy Observatory       awkerr@nrao.bitnet
Socorro, NM, USA                           uunet!nrao.edu!awkerr
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Good references/articles about veg diet & protein?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 17:29:07 GMT

kmd@medisg.Stanford.EDU (Kathleen Dammann) writes:

>Does anyone have suggestions for good articles  regarding protein?  I want
>to put together a packet of information for a concerned mother-in-law who is
>also a nurse (so medical resources would be great).  

     If you haven't already a copy, I would still recommend as a good
     starter the old classic:


	Lappe, Francis (1976; 1991).  DIET FOR A SMALL PLANET (479 p.)

     I don't recommend the old 1971 edition but most only the
     new edition that first came out in 1976.  Also, it is very
     easy to obtain and one could probably even find copies in a
     used bookstore.  Again, make sure you buy the second edition 
     '76 or later).  Francis More Lappe provides an good explication
     about protein and while the 1971 edition helped to deflate
     the myth about the necessity of meat for protein that same
     edition unfortunately perpetuated a new myth about protein
     complementarity being something you had to worry about.  The
     new edition humbly acknowledges that mistake.  She says:

          In 1971 I stressed protein complementarity because I
          assumed that the only way to get enough protein
          (without consuming too many calories) was to create a
          protein as usable by the body as animal protein.  In
          combatting the myth that meat is the only way to get
          high-quality protein, I reinforced another myth.  I
          gave the impression that in order to get enough protein
          without meat, considerable care was needed in choosing
          foods.  Actually, it is much easier than I thought.

     Indeed, it is virtually impossible unless you are a
     fruitarian, someone heavily depended on some tubers (like
     sweet potatoes or cassava), or you simply indulge in junk
     food day in and day out instead of eating proper meals.
     Hell, how many vegetarians are that backward?
     The book also provides about 150 pages of lacto-vegetarian
     recipes that are quite good for the beginning vegetarian to
     try out.  The so-called 20th anniversary edition (1991)
     costs $14 US and is published by Ballantine Books, New York.

				     ted

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@clpd.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vitamin D from sunshine
Date: 3 Jan 93 20:02:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: pixel.1993Jan3.200213.23362
Reply-To: young@clpd.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Originator: young@plasma

In article <altar.726085618@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:

[...]

>    Ordinary electric lights have a very limited spectrum of
>light, but full-spectrum lightening attempts to reproduce
>sunlight as closely as possible, but of course not exactly nor
>nearly as intense.  [...]

	I should hope not!  In the first place, the sun uses nuclear fusion,
	which is notoriously hard to contain, and "lightening" is an electrical
	discharge.  To reproduce sunlight with such a discharge within the
	confines of one's abode would generate abominably loud thunderclaps
	and would, no doubt, disturb neighbors...especially in adjoining
	apartments.


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin)
Subject: Re: vegan bacon?
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 04:30:45 GMT

In article <168C7C8C2.VSANNICE@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il> VSANNICE@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il (Annice Grinberg) writes:
>
>If I remember correctly, Morningstar Farms strips are not vegan.
>Unless the formula has been changed, they contain casein, a milk
>derivative.  I can't get them here, so can't check it out.

I don't know about Morningside Farms' "breakfast strips," but I 
just pulled a package of their breakfast links out of the freezer, 
and here's the ingredients:

textured vegetable protein (wheat gluten, soy concentrate and isolate) 
egg whites
corn oil 
sodium caseinate
natural and artifical flavors from non-meat sources 
spices 
salt 
modified corn starch 
sucrose 
modosodium glutamate
caramel color 
vegetable gums (guar and carrageenan) 
onion powder 
disodium guanylate
niacin
iron (as ferrous sulfate)
vitamin B1 (thiamine)
vitamin B6 
vitamin B2 (riboflavin) 
vitamin B12

===
Madhu likes these, but I don't eat them because almost half the calories 
in a serving comes from fat. 

They also have an aftertaste that lingers for hours.
A
--Barbara


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: thmiley@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Tim Miley)
Subject: Re: Vegetarianism or fanaticism
Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept.
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 05:51:06 GMT

mbevan@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Mark Bevan) writes:

>I can really appreciate someone taking care of their body and wanting 
>to eat healthy eg. vegetarian. I can see the advantages of eating 
>organically grown produce. I can see the medicinal purposes of herbs


>Why do some insist if you cook your carrots wrong you will be 
>reincarnated as one?
>Maybe they need a reason to eat healthly, like a law " Don't eat white
>rice or it's 3 years of wild rice farming".

>Every hear of the story of the emperor clothes? Maybe they think
>they have to prove they are right, so they have to come up with
>stories and dogma, instead of letting their healthly appearance
>stand as a witness to world.

>I personally hate fanatics who don't have a balance, double for 
>religious idiots who read anything they want into something they
>no nothing about, triple for religious idiots with degrees who quote
>obscure chucks of scripture then "interpret" them to say something they
>don't.


Well, Mark.  I agree with you.  There are some veggies like the ones that you
mention, but I'm certain that they are in the minority.  I don't eat meat   
because I care about animals and want to minimize suffering to cultivate a
compassionate self, for a healthier planet, and for a healthier body, but I
find absolutely nothing religious about my vegetarianism.  It just fits me.
 
I'm curious, Mark, about what brought you to post this message.  Did you have
a confrontation with an unpleasant vegetarian?


-- 
thmiley@cs.wmich.edu      (Timothy H Miley)
Computer Science Major
Western Michigan University
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jaj@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jill A. Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: oops
Date: 2 Jan 1993 14:00:33 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu







OOPs...I just downloaded a bunch of stuff from granola...it tells what those 
mean :) You can just ignore my last question if you like.

Jill
From: barman@hatteras.cs.unc.edu (Dilip Barman)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Vegetarian dining in Hawaii (Maui and the Big Island)
Date: 22 Dec 92 07:21:46 GMT
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill



Hi to my net friends,

     I hope you all are preparing to have a fun and exciting new year.
I posted this question about a month ago but got little response, so thought
I'd try again ...

     I'm going to Hawaii for a bicycling vacation in January.  We'll be
on Maui and the Big Island (doing a southern semi-circle).  Can people
recommend places to get good vegetarian food?  Also, places near the
Honolulu airport that we could get to easily during our several-hour
layover would be great.  I might be flying stand-by on my trip from
Honolulu, so may not have my pure vegetarian meal for the long trip
back to the mainland, so suggestions about places to pick up rations
in or near the airport (also at Kahalui in Maui) would also be
appreciated.

     Thanks.  Aloha and happy new year to all!

              Mahalo,
              Dilip
-- 
  Dilip Barman
  Dept. of Computer Science:		Home:			
  University of North Carolina		5129 Oakbrook Drive
  Sitterson Hall 365, CB 3175		Durham, North Carolina 27713-8005
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Vitamin D from sunshine
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 18:26:58 GMT

Clover M. writes:

>How much do Full Spectrum lights cost, Ted? And where can I buy
>them? I have an apartment in the basement with only one tiny
>window - it's HORRIBLE!

	I can imagine since I once lived in one myself with only 1 
window and that 1 miserable window faced into a dark corridor between 
the two houses :-(

    Now, full-spectrum lighting is not to be confused with those 
plant grow-lights.  Grow-lights may, for instance, have proportionally
too much ultraviolet light.  Dr. Ott, who was a key figure in the 
invention of the full-spectrum lighting and has publish a number of 
papers on the health effects of light, talks about it in his book,
HEALTH AND LIGHT, 1973.

    Ordinary electric lights have a very limited spectrum of
light, but full-spectrum lightening attempts to reproduce
sunlight as closely as possible, but of course not exactly nor
nearly as intense.  This is done by using a fluorescent tube
which has a wider spectrum of emission, reaching into the
ultraviolet and taking in the blue end of visible on the way.
Another method, found in some of the more recent models, combines
a tube which produces all the of the visible spectrum with a
small ultraviolet tube.  These lights also include devices to
block other potentially harmful radiations that might leak out
(e.g., the radiation leakage from electric poles that occasional
can happen with ordinary fluorescent lights)

    These full-spectrum lights can be installed anywhere that you
are going to spend time and have the advantage of providing some of
the benefits of sunlight without the risk of burning.

    Those models that use a glass or plastic housing, will
however effectively absorb all of the UV.  Those with metallic-
coasted grid diffusers, have no glass or plastic obstructing the
light path.  I myself simply have a partially exposed, unhoused
bare tube over my kitchen counter.  So far no reddening or
tanning, but then I'm permanently tanned  ;-)

    There are a number of advantages to this kind of low
intensity full spectrum lighting.  One is that it is a more
pleasant and nicer lightening than ordinary florescent
lightening. :-)

    I can't remember the exact cost as I bought my full-spectrum
florescent tube over 5 years ago.  It was about twice the price
as an ordinary florescent tube.  Well worth the extra cost, if
only for the nicer viewing light it provides.  :)  Some of the
faculty at Simon Fraser University have them installed in their
office simply because they find that this kind of lighting is
easier on the eyes.

    Clover, you may, however, have to hunt around or even resort t
to mail order.  In Vancouver, Canada, which is a large metropolitan
center, there is only one retail supplier.  Oops, that's not
quite true as I recently saw them being sold in a health food
store of all places!

Good luck,

                                     ted




Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: bart@marzipan.mitre.org (Bartley C. Conrath)
Subject: Vegetarian New Years Party Snack Ideas Wanted
Organization: MITRE Corp., Washington Group, McLean, VA
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 16:00:23 GMT

I'm looking for some inexpensive and quick New Years party
snack ideas.  I already have raw vegetables and dip and chips
and salsa, but I'd like something a little fancier that can be 
served warm.

Please reply through e-mail.
Thanks

--
Bart Conrath (bart@mitre.org)  |
MITRE Signal Processing Lab    |
7525 Colshire Dr.              |
McLean, Va. 22102 USA          |
From: solar@fsrg.fsrg.bear.com (William del Solar)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Content of fat in different kinds of meats
Keywords: cholesterol
Date: 21 Dec 92 22:49:24 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Bear Stearns & Company, New York, NY


Does anybody know the relative or absolute fat content of fat in different
kinds of meats both domestic and game.

Because my wife has a cholesterol problem, for the last four years or so,
I have served meals constituted only of fruits, grains, vegetables, and
skim milk.  About once a week I serve fish or chicken.  I do not serve
turkey because we do not like it.

I have prepared many creative, tasty meals using only those ingredients,
but I know that she is growing tired of that particular mixture of foods,
and that she would like more variety.

I have read that rabbit flesh has a low fat content, and I have seen
a note in the NYT Sunday magazine that venison is particularly low in
fat.  Is that true?  I am particularly interested in learning if cooked
pheasant, rabbit, and venison have as little fat as chicken cooked without
its skin.

Is there information about the different kinds of game meats as well as
domestic meats and their fat content?  If there is, where is it available?

Please send replies to me at solar@bear.com, and I will post a summary of
replies.

Thanks in advance.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet (Clover M.)
Subject: Vegan "Bacon"
Reply-To: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 22:49:13 GMT

Hi!
 
I seem to have misplaced the recently posted vegan "bacon" recipes
that were recently posted.  Would it be possible for someone to
email them to me?  I'd be VERY grateful... I'm having BLT cravings! 
 
Thanks in advance,
Clover, new in veggieness
la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
Clover
la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
This is my very first sig.file

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Subject: Re: Limited vegetarianism of India
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 08:16:44 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.205127.1242@hou.amoco.com> zkym02@hou.amoco.com writes:
>
>
>I have read your posts about Indian vegetarianism being a matter of habit and
>compulsion..... WHAT ABOUT RELIGION?   

What about it ?

If you are a brahmin you are not supposed to
>partake in the eating of dead animals.  

Whoever said that ? Just because you find some line or verse in
Sanskrit saying something like that, it does not become a law.
Indian religion (loosely termed Hinduism) and Sanatan Dharma
don't have directives or commandments. Ask on soc.religion.eastern
if you wish.

I have always attributed this distinction due
>to a scarcity of meat at some point and the religious leaders making the following
>bracketing.

Perhaps you were always correct. Or otherwise.

>
>Typically religious people do not have really gruelling work... they don't need

Really ? Only priests are religious people ? Religious people cannot
do (are not permitted to do) gruelling work ?

> meat, vegetables and beans and cereals can provide them with enough energy.
>
>Warriors need lots of meat in order to have the strength to protect the country.. they
>eat meat to make the strong and powerful.

I see. That is why Indian kings used elephants to break through the
iron doors of fortresses. 

Eat lots of meat to get strength. This is what I see as exemplary
ignorance, which we (Indians) arrogantly preach to everyone.
Mahatma Gandhi also fell a victim to this belief for a few months
in his youth. Tell me how our Indian warriors protected our country 
from the 10th century to 1962 ?

>
>Merchants and farmers have physically demanding jobs but not so much as the waririor so
>they eat fish and poultry to help them sustain jobs.

I see. Fish and poultry give energy, but less than cows.

>
>
>That it how I  always how I justified my vegetarianism.  Since I am of the religious
>class and have a relatively non-physical labor job,  I think it is appropriate.  
>

Are religious people allowed to use computers and such Tamasic modern
figments ?

>
>I don't not remember learning that the reason to be vegetarian was to save the animals.
>It is a matter of your lifestyle needs.  We need not take more than we need.
>
>
>Any comments... please no flames... this could be an interesting discussion.
>

Please don't interpret my followup as a flame. I saw most of it as
utter nonsense, but I could be wrong. So, in that case, please correct
me.

>Did I miss something in my upbringing

Not at all. 

>
>Keerthi

With regards,

Abhay

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Artifical Fur Manufacturers - Request for Info.
Date: 26 Dec 92 13:15:55 GMT
Organization: Abo Akademi University

In article <1hh4m4INNovs@morrow.stanford.edu> andy@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Andy Michael USGS Guest) writes:
>A strange side question that occurred to me recently is: Do the
>synthetics contain a lot of petroleum products and/or are they
>made with a process that includes toxic chemicals (not that tanning
>leather is so clean)?  

Most synthetic textiles are polymeric materials. They are made from
organic chemicals and there are very few organic chemical
industries which don't really pollute at all. The source of most
of those organic chemicals is petroleum's lighter fractions.

While one may not be wearing an animal one
>could still be killing some by polluting ground water and destroying
>areas for oil drilling.  

It is possible to produce these chemicals without polluting very much,
but present day economics and politics don't offer an incentive for it.

Life can be very complicated and it may not
>always be clear how to reduce ones impact on the planet.  Anyway its
>just a strange question bred by reading up on global climate change
>and starting to understand all of the linked systems that make up
>earth system science.
>
>Andy

Abhay
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@aton.abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Subject: Nutrients
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 07:25:43 +0000


I got this from Michael Traub some weeks back.


 
 Good Vegan Calcium Sources
 --------------------------
 
 White/Wholemeal bread, Taco Shells, Oats
 Soyabeans, Tofu, Almonds, Brazil Nuts, Pistachios, Sunflower Seeds
 Sesame Seeds, Flax Seed, Carob
 Beet Greens, Collards, Dandelion Greens, Mustard Greens, Spinach
 Turnip Greens, Watercress, Broccoli, Carrots, Cabbage, Garlic, Parsley
 Spirulina, Chives, Seaweed, Cauliflower, Okra, Cassava
 Figs, Papaya, Rhubarb, Molasses
 
 
 Good Vegan Magnesium Sources
 ----------------------------
 
 Whole grains, Dark-green vegetables, Molasses, Nuts
 
 
 Good Vegan Riboflavin (Vitamin B2) Sources
 ------------------------------------------
 
 Brewer's yeast/Nutritional yeast, Whole grains, Blackstrap Molasses,
 Legumes, Nuts.
 
 
 Good Vegan Vitamin A Sources
 ----------------------------
 
 None,   preformed  vitamin  A  is  not  needed  by  the  body,  it  can  be
 synthesized  by  ingestion  of carotene (often called provitamin A). Excess
 consumption  of  pre-formed  Vitamin  A  can  be  dangerous.  Good Carotene
 sources include: Green leafy vegetables, yellow fruits and vegetables.
 
 
 Good Vegan Vitamin D Sources
 ----------------------------
 
 None,   preformed  vitamin  D  is  not  needed  by  the  body,  it  can  be
 synthesized  by  exposure  to sunshine of dehydrocholesterol present in the
 skin.  Vitamin  D  created  this way lasts in the body for many months such
 that  it  is  possible  to  "top-up" one's vitamin D levels over the summer
 for  the  coming  winter. Excess consumption of pre-formed Vitamin D can be
 dangerous.  The  Vitamin  D  in cow's milk is artificially added. In the UK
 margarine  is  fortified with vitamin D by law and some soya milks are also
 fortified.
 
 

I am trying to post this by e-mailing. I don't yet know how this will
appear. In a way, this is also a test.

With regards,

Abhay
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Vegetarian Cats2: Is it Natural?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 18:18:58 GMT



B.  IS IT "PROPER" TO FEED A VEGETARIAN DIET TO CATS?

>and 2) I would still be forcing my pets to do something
>%I% find proper.  Any thoughts???
By "proper" you might here be suggesting that by going against
the evolved nature of the cat, we would be doing something
improper.  Given this to be the import of your query, consider
the following question in turn:

Is it any less "proper" to feed your cats vitamin-mineral
reinforced meat-plant mixtures (i.e., commercial pet food) 
made made from cows, sheep, pigs and chickens which your 
cats would never have caught for themselves?

After all, commercial pet foods consists of meats which they
would never have caught or cooked for themselves, this is mixed
with grains which they never would have grown and cooked for
themselves, and this stew is supplemented with vitamins which
they never would have concocted for themselves and finally it is
all flavored with artificial tastes enhancers and appetizers
which again is something that cats would not have invented.

Frankly, I am not certain what "natural" foods or a natural diet
in this context here means or what is "proper" or not to feed
your cat.  Unless you feed your cats live insects, small live
rodents and small live birds you are NOT feeding your cat a
"natural diet".  Ok, then at least feed your cat what is
nutritionally required and healthy and which they would enjoy.
It so happens that a properly prepared vegetarian cat food
diet meets these 2 specifications.  :-)

Although domestic cats are living longer than either their
ancestral counterparts or their contemporary cousins, my vet
informs me that cancer rates in cats are increasing and diet
seems to here be implicated.  Maybe we shouldn't be surprised by
this given the slaughterhouse offal and human rejected tumor
ridden and contaminated meats that are put into cat foods, plus
the chemical appetizers and preservatives and food colourings.
At least I know something about the quality of what I give my cat
to eat and I do have my cat checked each year by one of
Vancouvers's most respected veterinarians and one who has
actually & carefully read Barabara Peden's book, CATS AND DOGS GO
VEGETARIAN, and approves of what the book recommends.


					Happy Vegetarian New Year,
						ted

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg