From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Re: Feminists Growing Old Alone (was: Japanese Women's Lib)
Date: 16 Apr 92 01:34:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: s1.1992Apr16.013442.23718
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Labs, Livermore CA

In article <cbyj2rk.sheaffer@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>In article <1992Apr14.064751.24560@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
:
::	For my part, I think that Clarence Thomas was a boor to
::discuss the exploits of Long Dong Silver to someone who clearly didn't
::enjoy it.
:
:Assuming he actually *did* this, I would agree it to be a boorish
:act. But now feminists seriously propose to CRIMINALIZE boorishness??!!

	What gives you that idea?

	I guess it would more likely become a civil matter than a
criminal one, however; violation of civil rights, etc.

::	Stable? Have you ever heard of the "battle of the sexes"? Why
::in the world were ancient Greek killers depicted as Amazon killers? It
::is as if the men felt that they had to keep the women under control,
::as if they were not naturally submissive.
:
:I said that the traditional model made long-term stable relationships
:*possible*. I never said it was easy!  :)

	Stability -- at what price?

::	Do you have direct experience of same-sex couples??? You could
::always hop on the CalTrain at the San Jose Amtrak station and an hour
::and a half later, you will be in a place with lots of gay people to
::observe at first hand.
:
:What makes you think I *have not* done this? Let me recommend to you
:a Thai restaurant on 18th St. near Castro that serves excellent
:food, and is a wonderful place for people-watching. Right across
:from the Midnight Sun, and near the 'AIDS community drop-in centers'.
:I assume you've been there?  

	This was just a way of pointing out to you that a major center
of homosexual culture is readily accessible to someone living in San
Jose.

:In any case, you didn't address the main question: given that even
:same-sex couples typically have one partner with a tendency to be
:dominant over the other, why has it become High Holey Dogma that this
:is an inadmissible, inexcusable, and just plain horrible model
:for husband and wife?

	I'm just suggesting that it is unnecessary.

:::voluntary. A woman who wants to live by herself is free to do so.
::
::	"Always free to do so"? Is breaking up a marriage the easiest
::thing to do? Is finding a suitable partner? Sheesh.
:
:I didn't say "breaking up" a marriage was easy, or even desirable. I said
:that a woman doesn't have to 'put up with men' unless she WANTS to!
:Nobody is forcing her to marry.

	Don't be too sure...

:::will have a far better chance of finding a suitable mate than
:::she will. Surely you have not failed to note the great likelihood
:::that an uncompromising feminist will grow old alone; go to any New Age
:::gathering here in the Bay Area, and you will find it filled with
:::unattached, intense, and aging Goddess-worshippers, perusing every kind
:::of "psychic" flim-flam and "wholistic" twaddle in a desperate
:::search for meaning in their lives. 
::
::	Maybe she might not want to get married.
:
:Many don't, and never do. My experience is, though, that even the most
:militant feminists (except for actual lesbians), once you know them
:well enough for them to say what they really feel, DO want a lifelong
:marriage to one man (even if they won't *trust* the son-of-a-bitch!).

	They want marriage to a man who will be appropriate for them,
not some male chauvinist pig.

:: A woman I used to be going
:::with once said to me, "Oh, that old lady next door is so dependent on
:::her husband, just like a typical woman of her generation."
:::And I wanted to reply (but held my tongue), "Well, SHE is still
:::married, you are not." So it is all voluntary, you see. We all make
::
::	Maybe that one-time girlfriend of yours feels she would rather
::select a more suitable partner, rather than be stuck with someone
::unpleasant.
:
:This is not only a personal insult in extremely poor taste, it's
:downright inaccurate. (She is still unmarried, by the way, several
:years later; she would like to get remarried, but she's in her 40s, and
:the odds are strongly against her.)

	I'm sorry that I phrased it in that fashion. I should have
said something like:

	Maybe she didn't feel that you were her type of suitable
partner.