From: PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Re: Brady Bill squashed and other news
Keywords: Brady, Good riddance
Organization: University of Tennessee 
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:36:23 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.192853.29185@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> clc5q@hemlock.cs.Virginia.EDU (Clark L. Coleman) writes:
>
>Well, you know how to spout the Libertarian party line, but it is all
>unsupported assertion.
>
No. I don't.  I'm not even I party member.  I disagree with the Libertarian 
party on a number of issues, just far less than I disagree with the 
Dempublicans.

>Perhaps you were not a subscriber when I issued my challenge a few weeks
>ago on this subject. I asked for a recorded vote on gun control (not a
>rider on some huge bill) that would reveal the attitudes of the members of
>Congress from each party on this issue, and would show no significant
>difference between the parties.  No one has produced such an example. 

There are certainly cosmetic differences:  the Democrats want to take away 
your right to keep and bear arms.  The Republicans want to take away your 
freedom of (or from) religion and restrict your freedom of speech.  In the 
balance, neither party gives a damn about civil liberties or the 
Constitution, only about pushing thier own social agenda at the expense of 
the individual.

(I
>limited it to Congress to get a good statistical sample from both parties,
>and to emphasize my point that the strong need on November 3 is to get the
>Democrats out of control of Congress.)

True, in the absence of a Libertarian or Tax Payer's Party candidate, the 
Republicans are the best choice, if Second Amendment civil liberties are 
your favorite hobby horse (like mine).  If the right to privacy, freedom of 
religion, or to speak are more important, a Democrat is, generally, the best 
choice.  Both are equally after your paycheck though.  Although the Dem's 
spend on bums and the Repubs spend on bombs.

>
>People have made several irrelevant comments, but they have failed to
>produce an example.
>
Your question is irrelivant.  Anyone could produce superficial differences.  
The end result is more government and less individual liberty.

>I noted that it is perfectly acceptable to me for a Libertarian to say that
>he disagrees with Democrats on some issues, Republicans on others, and votes
>Libertarian as a result.  I just challenged the Libertarian demagogues to
>back up the claim, posted on this newsgroup many times, that there is no
>difference between the parties on the single issue of gun control.
Fundamentally there isn't.  If there had been, George Bush wouldn't have 
banned over a dozen firearms by fiat, short circuiting the entire 
legislative process.  Nor would he have agreed to sign the brady bill, so 
long as it was attached to his package that attacked other civil rights.  
The Dems want to ban guns fast, the Reps want to ban them slow.

>
>The usual response is to change the subject and start talking about spending
>and deficits and so on.  As you are willing to spout the Libertarian
>demagoguery about gun control, prehaps you can provide an example that

It's not demagoguery, just facts.

>satisfies my criteria: From the last 20 years, a vote in Congress limited
>to some gun control issue, which shows no significant difference between
>Democrats and Republicans.

If you massage the conditionals enough, you can find a stat to support 
anything.

>After stating that Republicans are attacking your 2nd Amendment rights so they
>can get a lever against your other liberties, surely you can put up or shut
>up.

Take a peek and George Bush's "Crime Package."  It attacks 2nd Amendment 
civil liberties, 4th Amendment civil liberties, and 5th Amendment civil 
liberties.

>
>"Spout the Libertarian party line --- it's easier than thinking."
>
Ya can't just spout the libertarian party line.  You have to have discovered 
problems with the status quo to have even considered it.
-=-=-
T. Archer  PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu
University of Tennessee
"Vote Dempublican, it's easier than thinking." -- Unknown
-=-=-