HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ldouglas@engws4.ic.sunysb.edu
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.magick
Subject: Tarot Construction Questions
Date: 9 Nov 92 23:20:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Originator: ldouglas@engws4.ic.sunysb.edu

I am thinking about constructing my own tarot deck, however I need
some help...

   1) What are the best construction materials for decks?
      (inks, card material, etc.) I want it to LAST!
   2) What care should be taken with my deck?
   3) Professionally printed decks have that cool look to them.
       Anyway I can duplicate it?
   4) Any suggestions for a Sandman (Neil Gaiman's DC creation) deck?

I would appreciate any help anyone could give me...
                             Thanx...
From: wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Loo seats (was: Re: hate and anger)
Date: 8 Nov 92 01:06:29 GMT
Organization: Red Wolfe @ The Wolves Den
X-Md4-Signature: 1d0f5e2c47c342e3ad96b1acbc3f233b

This has got to be the most ridiculous argument I've ever seen!

Males should return the seat to whatever position the other folk in the
house prefer.

Everyone should take two or three seconds to LOOK at the position of the
seat before they presume to squat on something that may or may not be in
its proper position.

Yes, I've been caught a few time plunking down on a commode without
looking first, and gotten my butt and balls sopping wet.  That taught me
to look before I squat.  I'd expect that after a time or two, almost
anyone would learn to look too.

Substitute a better habit for the dangerous ones.

:-)
-- 
G. Wolfe Woodbury @ The Wolves Den, Durham NC	[This site is NOT affiliated  ]
wolfe@wolves.durham.nc.us			[with Duke University! Idiots!]
UUCP: ...!duke!wolves!wolfe      <Standard Disclaimers apply>
    Above All, we celebrate!  --Celebrate the Circle, Statement of Purpose.
From: michael@albert.bu.edu (Michael Chaplin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Annoying, cloying "wann-be"s
Date: 5 Nov 92 20:50:23 GMT
Organization: Boston University
In-reply-to: markbr%radian@natinst.com's message of 5 Nov 92 18:52:14 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.185214.1563@radian.uucp> markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:
[stuff on sci-fi deleted]

  =Name game? I've been in fandom a while, and sf is *always* acceptable, and
  =skiffy has never been. What other names have you heard? Speculative fiction,
  =as another de-acronym for sf? Still is sf.

Skiffy from sci-fi? SF is a norm?
'Twas always sci-fi as "sigh-figh" 'round my parts.
Or, more bluntly, who cares?

The original point from which these tangents were derived
was that, in any group, one will find a sub-group which will cause
problem for the rest of that group. This sub-group may hold either
minority or majority status within said group.

Wanna-be's and hucksters make life hard for pagans, etc., who aren't;
just as X-tian zealots and hucksters make life hard for for those
Christians who aren't; just as... well how many more examples
would I have to give before the point is made?

It hurts to see intolerance of one group based upon the actions 
of a sub-group, no matter what that group is- which is why I often
find it much easier to try to deal with people on an individual
basis, whether they be pagan, christian, moslem, atheist, etc.
The fear I have, is that, when one group has been the victim of
intolerance for any period of time, it feels it is right in being
intolerant of other groups. (One is reminded of the Puritain settlers
of Massachusetts.) I, being a spiritual agnostic, would hate to see
any of the neo-pagan religions fall prey to that which has already
claimed good portions of the world's religions- including, of course,
christianity.

A good phrase to keep in mind when talking about religious adherents,
then, is "some but not all" or even "many but not all".
The key is the "not all" part of it. Otherwise, it's too easy to get
caught in labels, even labels of our own devising.

Well, thanks for letting me up on the soap-box...
Chaplin.



--
=========================================================================
Michael A. Chaplin           If you want *their* opinions, ask *them*.
michael@albert.bu.edu ....The Einstein Papers Project, Boston, Mass., USA
chaplin@husc.harvard.edu ....Harvard University, Cambridge, Mass., USA
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich)
Subject: Re: damn this lie!!!!
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 13:21:54 GMT


>Re: DAMN THIS LIE!!!!
>By: gil #0 @Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick) USEnet      

>Gil Hardwick says:
>If the US has something more hopeful and promising to offer the world
>than mass bloodshed, and the economic, social and cultural ruin of
>anything that does not happen to resemble things American, please do
>go ahead and show us.

First of all..you speak as if `the US' were a single entity. If you mean
to say `the US government', then I would have to agree with you.
If you mean to say `the US people', then I can point to many examples
of people who organize and volunteer to help, heal, and nurture in a
global fashion. Do you really need a list, or are you just being obtuse
on purpose.

al

-- 
Al Aldrich	inet:aaldrich@encore.com
"..if you understood everything I said, you'd be me." miles davis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MY opinions are not to be construed as those of my employer.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich)
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:43:19 GMT

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

>In article <lftljgINNlq@news.bbn.com> dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:
>>

>Glad you mentioned this; I'll try to get hold of some stuff.  This IS
>unacceptable.

>I'm amazed she's married to someone who seriously reads and cites stuff
>like Marija Gimbutas and Riane Eisler and talks about how we have to
>change our spiritual relationship to the Earth. 

Wow..I am glad this discussion came up.. I was not aware of Tipper's
hidden agenda OR Al's apparent knowledge of Earth centered spirituality..

Thanks..both of you.

al



-- 
Al Aldrich	inet:aaldrich@encore.com
"..if you understood everything I said, you'd be me." miles davis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MY opinions are not to be construed as those of my employer.
From: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Subject: Re: How the hell can religion and action not be related?
Reply-To: boylan@ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:01:29 GMT


And the history of the interaction between religion and economics
rears its ugly head once again . . .     :-)

In article <27910@castle.ed.ac.uk>, loki@castle.ed.ac.uk (A Kashko) writes:

>
>  >gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick) writes:
>  >: 
>  >: knee-jerk reaction), here you are merely sprouting your own ignorance
>  >: of the pagan traditions of Europe which have never sought to dominate
>  >: or conquer anyone at any time in history. I have posted Australian
>  >: material myself to this group and all of it has been received warmly
>  >: and intelligently, which is in marked contrast to some other groups
>  >: on the Internet.
>  >
>  >I suggest you read a little more European history. Or, do you not
>  >consider the Vikings and Norsemen to have been pagans? How about the
>  >Saxons or Angles or Jutes? How about the Picts or Britons or Celts?
>  >
>  >Bill
> 
> 	The Vikings etc saught to conquer for basically mundane reasons,
> like land pressure, shortage of resources, and, occasionally, a leader's
> desire for power. I am unaware of any case outside the Christian/Islamic
> fold where a conquest was undertaken on purely religious grounds: somehow
> "conquering the world for Buddha" has the wrong ring to it. In summary,
> the pagan traditions of europe never saught to dominate, as gil says, but
> individuals did undertake conquests, as bill says.

Look at a good history of the expansion of Christianity or Islam, or a
complete history of Europe during the Crusades, or take a look at the
colonization of the New World.  Those holy rollers were getting a lot
more out of their conquests than just the knowledge that they were pleasing
their God.

The Crusades, for example, were pursued for more economic reasons than
religious ones.  The Holy Lands provided a source of booty, a source of
rewards for faithful followers, and knightly work for the otherwise too-
numerous sons of the aristocrats of Europe.

The lands in the New World were conquered in the name of God and country,
but I'm sure you don't believe that the conquerors didn't expect to get
some wealth for themselves.

Religious motivation can be very powerful in directing the efforts of a large
group of people, but I am unaware of any case INSIDE the Christian or
Islamic fold where a conquest was undertaken on purely religious grounds!
The Christians, Muslims, and Jews were also conquering for primarily mundane
reasons.  The major difference with Buddism is that these three religions
(as well as the religion of the Vikings) allowed conquest of the infidels
and glorified battle, which Buddism did not do.

What little we know of the old pagan traditions of Europe is consistent with
many warlike tribes, but having no philosophical goal of spreading the
religion or converting the unbelievers.  I think this distinction may be
what "Loki" and Gil were trying to communicate.

				- - Steve
				boylan@ljohub.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.magick
From: crime@grind.cheme.cmu.edu (W. Scott Shannon)
Subject: Re: Santeria
Organization: Grind Systems, Inc.
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 15:07:10 GMT
X-Posted-From: grind.cheme.cmu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <7NOV199213484232@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu> andrew@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu (CHIHUAHUA CHARLIE) writes:
>In article <Bx9MK7.GJ8@inews.Intel.COM>, pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey) writes...
>>In article <68938@cup.portal.com> 
>>Tagi@cup.portal.com (Thyagi Morgoth NagaSiva) writes:
>>>"I wanna be loved by you
>>>By you, and nobody else but you.
>>>I wanna be loved by you alooooone.
>>>Boop-oop-ee-doo!"
>>>Dunno the name of the song, but Marilyn Monroe is the one I
>>>remember who sang it. ;>
>> 
>>Hmm, I'm thinkin' Betty Boop which proceeds Norma Jean.
>
>No, it was Ginger, from Giligan's Island!


Actually, the song predates the dearly departed Marylins death by about
25 years... It's called "I wanna be loved by you"
Betty Boop also cliched "poop oop ee doo" in her well known(?)
cartoon, in the 1930's or so..
Unfortunately, I can't remember who sang it first either for sure...

Scott
Live for now. The past is gone, and the future's too far away.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: politices
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 10:26:25 GMT

pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey) writes:
: 
: >As of yet doesnt even have the right to line itome veto!
: 
: Yikes. Line item veto is really dangerous, it destroys the concept of a
: division of power. Congress is to write the laws. Line item veto would allow
: the President to edit. Bad deal, really bad. With line item veto you could
: kiss the balance of power theory goodbye. I know Bush was all for it, then
: again he was the former director of the CIA.

Or, it just might get Congress writing bills that cover just one subject,
like they should, instead of having 20 riders attached which have nothing
to do with the main bill.

So, it is easy to remove any additional power such a veto would give the
president. 

: Only one of Bush's record number of vetos was overridden. Maybe 2/3 is too
: stiff.

No. If the people want it bad enough, then the congress is going to override,
regardless of what the president desires. Most congressmen do listen to their
constituents - even if it takes far more input from people opposed to the
congressperson's viewpoint before the congressperson will change his/her vote.

Bill
From: michael@albert.bu.edu (Michael Chaplin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Druid Human Sacrifice
Date: 5 Nov 92 20:59:10 GMT
	<1992Oct29.021847.6267@s1.gov> <6656@m1.cs.man.ac.uk>
Organization: Boston University
In-reply-to: lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk's message of 3 Nov 92 23:41:46 GMT

In article <6656@m1.cs.man.ac.uk> lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk (Chris Lilley) writes:
[no he didn't- blame the server- it works for me]

   >	See _The Life and Death of a Druid Prince_ (I forget the
   >author) for details.

I have the book but it's at home right now- I'll post
the bibliographic info within a day or two.

If you're ever in London, the British Museum has him
(the Lindow man) on exhibit. (the 2nd floor)
You can see the scar in his neck, amongst other things.

my $.02,
Chaplin.
--
=========================================================================
Michael A. Chaplin           If you want *their* opinions, ask *them*.
michael@albert.bu.edu ....The Einstein Papers Project, Boston, Mass., USA
chaplin@husc.harvard.edu ....Harvard University, Cambridge, Mass., USA
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Subject: Re: Millenium Mead
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:03:26 GMT
Organization: n.o.y.b

In article <BxGIHs.89p@encore.com> aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich) writes:
<Corun quote munched, or maybe slurped>
>Speaking of Brew.. I heard something on NPR the other day about some
>5000 year old vessel found in the near east somewhere that was apparently
>a vessel which contained remnants of 5000 year old beer. They went on
>to speculate about a whole `beer making' culture and a beer god and
>so on.. it was all kind of interesting. Any body know the details of
>this report? My wife always said she could could tell I was a pagan
>because of my love for oak trees and beer.. :-)

Hmmmm. I *can't* resist this one. I'm a long time member of the Beaker
People Libation Front (yes, it's *all* spelled right), an organization
dedicated to celebrating our descent from the prehistoric traders of
Europe by emptying bheer surpluses, whereever found. To join, one needs
to drink with one of the founders, and be of the proper ethnic heritage.
To be of the proper ethnic heritage, one must either be of British or
Celtic ancestory, or be able to fake it. To be able to fake it, one must
be able to speak English, or know someone who does....

	(B-)}

(I'll drink to that)	mark
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Subject: Re: Pagan Bumper Stickers
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 17:50:29 GMT

I (radzy) said:
>I've seen "blessed Be" and "An it Harm None" bumperstickers at Sci-Fi cons...

lrfox@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (linda ream fox) writes:
> This does not necessarily mean that the person with the sticker isn't a pagan.

No, but the fact that you can *buy* those bumper stickers at Sci-Fi
cons does imply that not everyone who has such a bumper sticker
(on their car) is pagan.  Because of this, I'm uncomfortable trying
to use bumper sticker sales as a measure of how many pagans there are.

Like I said earlier, "An it harm none" and "Practice random acts of
kindness" are not implicitly pagan.  There are sources for these that
are outside of the typical pagan circles (pun not intended).

Blessings!

		-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	T. O. Radzykewycz	     	|  do as ye will.
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|
					|  "Just pray for a
	radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu       |  tough hide and a
	        			|  tender heart."
	        			|    -- Ruth Graham
------------------------------------------------------------
Tribal Mother was old, and lay ill on a bed of moss and
fern.   Her hair was long and grey.   Her face was very
wrinkled.    Tamura'nun-pa thought:   How beautiful you
are, Mother, so old and wise.
From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Native, was Witches and death
Distribution: world
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 05:36:46 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <1992Nov6.191402.28328@radian.uucp> markbr%radian@natinst.com writes:

 > I thought some of your post were interesting. I thought you wanted to
 > add to our conversation. Instead, after reading the above, I get the
 > following interpretation of the above:
 >         "you all are nothing out there but a bunch of words on a screen.
 >          I don't really care about them, they mean as much to me as the
 >          actors in a commercial on tv, so I'll throw a few words in, when
 >          I've nothing better to do, nothing that means anything, and if
 >          I feel in the mood, I'll play mindfuck games with these words,
 >          that may be nothing more that a fancy eliza program. There's
 >          nothing out there that has feelings to get hurt, or minds to
 >          get screwed over, and if there are, they should feel the way *I*
 >          do about these words on a screen."

Mark, it is you who commented on a "forcefield" at this end which you
apparently felt needs to be penetrated. Is it unfeeling of me to reply
that there may be no such thing at all? Maybe there is a degree of
openness you find difficult yet to get a grip on, so you target some
sort of emotional committment from me instead.

 > Does the gil program have feelings? Or genuine opinions? Naaah, it's
 > just trying to pass a Turing test. Maybe it'll do better than Dan Quayle
 > (who flunked...)

Does it? What feelings do you want? I get these sorts of exchange from
my two boys, aged two and three respectively, although they are far
less heavy about it when the warehouse is open for them to pillage
pretty much at will. And when they get tired they both just snuggle
into my lap anyway. It does matter to me that *I* get tired of their
constant demands, but they are my family where you are not, yes?

In the meantime I still don't understand much of what you are talking
about, although it *appears* interesting. I spend most of my time here
trying to get a handle on your end myself, and perhaps you would like
to elaborate somewhat? Tell us about yourself so at least we know who
you are and what you do, how old you are, and so forth . . .

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Subject: Re: Other celebrations
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 02:46:15 GMT

lrabe@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lee A Rabe) writes:
> Would anyone out there in net-land be willing to teach me?  I am new
> to this (as I said), but am eager to learn.  This can range from weekly 
> "lessons" to just answering questions when I have them....

Hi TopCat

I don't know about other people, but *I* would certainly appreciate it
if you *posted* your questions.  There are a lot of people here, and
you will have the unique advantage of having many many points of view
for your answers.  Of course, I'll understand if you want to have a
single person who filters things for you -- to avoid the information
overload that a net full of opinionated people will probably cause.

Whatever happens -- good luck!

Bear Blessings!

		-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	T. O. Radzykewycz	     	|  do as ye will.
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|
					|  "Just pray for a
	radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu       |  tough hide and a
	        			|  tender heart."
	        			|    -- Ruth Graham
------------------------------------------------------------
Tribal Mother was old, and lay ill on a bed of moss and
fern.   Her hair was long and grey.   Her face was very
wrinkled.    Tamura'nun-pa thought:   How beautiful you
are, Mother, so old and wise.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: DAMN THIS LIE!!!!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 07:52:20 GMT

markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:
: >
: >Fat chance. The Democratic party has historically been the greatest
: >force in increasing government control over the population. However,
: >these days, it seems that the Republicans are just about as bad.
: >
: Yup. Right. The Dems *LOVE* increasing government control over the people.
: That's why the pro-Bill of Rights Supreme Court judges tend to be nominated
: by Dems, and those nominated by GOPs are called traitors (or are you too
: young to remember the impeachment billboards for the chief justice appointed
: by Eisenhower, (the one in the 60's)?). The GOP "right-to-life" amendment.
: The GOP defeat of the ERA. Yup. Absolutely.
: 
: >Talk about lousy choices - too bad the third party candidates in this
: >country do not have a chance. Our new president was elected on a
: >plurality, not with a majority of the votes.
: >
: >Bill
: 
: Neither was Reagan. He had (I just read) 43.5% to Carter's 42.5%.
: Sorry. Bill. the GOP is agin' "GOV'T INTERVENTION" when THEY'RE not the
: ones doing the intervening.

Isn't that what I said? Both parties want to control our lives - the
only difference is what they use for an excuse for doing so.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: A Few Words About Election Results
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 09:23:14 GMT

jon@MITRE.org (J. E. Shum) writes:
: 
: In article <18882@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie) writes:
: > 
: > All in all, it's a stunning setback for the fascist right.
: 
: Yeah, but at the expense of putting the facist left in charge.

Exactly. It is unfortunate that so many people are blind to this fact.
Feinstein is a good example.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Subject: Re: Road Trip
Keywords: trip
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 02:42:14 GMT


T. O. Radzykewycz wrote:
> > Well, on this trip I got ... winter weather in Banff,

bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth) writes:
> Most of us would say that you only got a taste of winter...
> real winter doesn't show up till late December and January. ;)

Yup, I know.  But you should realize that this is the first
*taste* of winter I've had in years!  I *actually* saw
SNOW!!!!!!  I've been in the San Francisco area too long, and I
want to move somewhere where there's REAL weather!
(Janis -- no, SF does NOT have real autumns!)

> > I noticed one spot that looked like it had a rather
> > large mayday celebration every year.

> This sounds interesting.  Do you remember what town it was
> near?  I know that mayday celebrations are fairly popular in
> a lot of small communities in BC... possibly because of the
> number of Scottish, Irish and British settlers, but maybe
> also due to the fact that May is the first warm month after
> the winter. :)

No, I don't remember what town it was near.  I *knew* I should
have taken notes, but I didn't.  Sigh.

I suppose I'm not surprised that it isn't a real (tm) [pP]agan
celebration up there, but I'm a wee bit disappointed.

Bear Blessings!

		-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	T. O. Radzykewycz	     	|  do as ye will.
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|
					|  "Just pray for a
	radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu       |  tough hide and a
	        			|  tender heart."
	        			|    -- Ruth Graham
------------------------------------------------------------
Tribal Mother was old, and lay ill on a bed of moss and
fern.   Her hair was long and grey.   Her face was very
wrinkled.    Tamura'nun-pa thought:   How beautiful you
are, Mother, so old and wise.
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:12549 alt.magick:5736