From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Ethanol blended gasoline
Date: 6 Nov 92 20:23:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: cos.bob1.721081430
Distribution: world
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems

In <1992Nov6.002628.4960@newsgate.sps.mot.com> mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw) writes:

>In article <1992Nov4.195708.29977@erg.sri.com>, rat@erg.sri.com (Ray Trent) writes:
>|> In the referenced article, bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw) writes:
>|> >it not cutting pollution. It seems to me that the oxygen sensor sees
>|> >a higher oxygen content and so calls for a richer mixture, hence the
>|> >loss in mileage. Whether the final result is less CO I will soon know
>|> 
>|> Although this whole thing sounds like a scam to me too, remember that
>|> the majority of pollution comes from vehicles that are old enough that
>|> they probably don't *have* oxygen sensors.
>|> 
>|> Whether or not an oxygen sensor would detect the "oxygenated" fuel in
>|> question is another matter.
>|> 
>|> Also note that if, as the Subject implies, we are talking about
>|> Ethanol blended gasoline, the decreased efficiency may simply be due
>|> to the lower energy content of ethanol vs. gasoline (primary hexane if
>|> I remember correctly). The "emissions" may or may not go up, depending
>|> on what you consider "emissions".

>Most oxygenated fuel campaigns are aimed at the older cars (usually pre-1982)
>which do not have closed-loop fuel control.  The local emissions regulation
>office has essentially admitted that it has little effect on the emissions
>from the newer cars, but it can reduce CO from an older uncontrolled car by
>as much as 20%.  

OK, but if my guess [I'm not an automotive engineer] about the closed loop
EFI systems is correct, will the makers come up with new ROMs for the ECU?
I'd pay a reasonable price to get my mileage back up. This am my guage was
at less than half and the trip meter at 202 miles. The trip meter used to
hit 250-270 at the halfway mark. That is more than a slight loss in gas
mileage. Result is we will import more oil.

On several visits to The Netherlands (which is why I changed the distribution)
it seemed almost every station had a LNG (Liquified Natural Gas) pump and
many cars ran on LNG. All I ever hear is that we are up to our ears in
natural gas (especially this last few months :-) ), yet we don't seem
to want to consider it as an alternative fuel - what gives? From all
the articles I've read LNG is cleaner both for the environment and for
the engine internals. I've heard about fear of explosion in accidents,
but documentaries I've seen show one big flash, whereas gasoline is
more like a napalm attack - which is worse?

I believe there are propane conversion kits for some engines, but
where to fill up? I have enough problems with my gas barbeque.

New cars would be nice, trouble is the prices go up faster than our
salaries :-(.


>The problem with the alcohol blend is that it also increases the formaldehyde
>emissions, which currently have no offical limits (despite being known
>carcinegens).  They are also more likely to cause problems for older cars
>with carbureators and dirty fuel systems.

>Mark
Newsgroups: rec.autos