From: eyc@acpub.duke.edu (EMIL CHUCK)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.bush,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: DATELINE: Bush fucks up!
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:56:10 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

ac10+@andrew.cmu.edu (Alison Rebecca Colman) writes:
+>!Chris Lyman
+>Emil Chuck
+How well did you read this story, Emil? I don't think it would be too
+much of a stretch to say that her father would have done her physical
+harm if she had obtained an abortion, regardless of how she got
+pregnant.  If Stella had been raped, I would be confident to assume that
+he would have still tried to force her to bear that child.
	Again, I reiterate I did not read the story before I posted.
	I'm also not arguing the actions of the father. He's stupid if
he really thinks this way. That's not the best way to deal with a
problem in the family.

+>No side wins in the above story: she
+>did not need to have performed a self-induced abortion,
+
+Says who? By your standards, maybe, she did not "need" to have an
+abortion. However, she felt differently. This was her life, and she felt
+she had no other option. Who are you to judge her actions? Maybe you
+think she would have been better off having the child, but your opinion
+and 50 cents would buy her a soda pop, if you get my drift.  
	I am probably as qualified to judge her actions as I am
qualified to determine whether Bush or Clinton had an affair. I am
probably as qualified to judge her actions are you are to determine what
her father was going to do to her.
	I don't know whether she would be "better off" if she did have the
child. What I am remarking on is the family environment in which she
made her decision would not be ameliorated until her father's opinion
were changed. She wanted her family's support, and her father did not
seem to extend his hand to her.

+>and if she had a
+>legal abortion, I doubt this action could have helped her relationship
+>with her father. Making abortion available to this woman I doubt would have 
+>helped her family be more closer and more trusting.
+
+You are missing the point *entirely*.  Stella's family would not have
+been close and trusting no matter WHAT she chose to do. The whole point
+of the post was to demonstrate that illegalizing abortion puts women at
+a higher risk, especially if they are young, have dysfunctional
+families, etc.  Your reaction (which I found to be rather cold and
+callous) to the posting of Stella's story illustrates to me a
+stereotypical pro-"life" attitude: the woman must give birth to the
+baby, regardless of the damage it would do to her life and health, and
+the quality of life her baby would have.
	I missed _your_ point entirely, but you hit my point. Stella's
family relationship with her father was not friendly and is not
indicative of a caring family. You don't solve family problems by
sweeping them under the rug, and she sure won't change the opinions of
her father by pretending it's not there.
	I am sorry that my reaction is being interpreted as cold and
callous, but I am outraged by the father's stance as being near absolute
zero and leprous. What I am trying to point out is that ensuring
abortion across the country in order to save daughters from mean and
heartless fathers won't help solve that problem. That is the essence of
my argument. As for my attitude on abortion, I have said that my stance
is pro-responsibility, that the choice comes even before conception: it
starts when a man and a woman decide to have sex. I can email you a
previous post I wrote upon request.
-- 
Emil Thomas Chuck		DUKE BLUE DEVILS: 1992 ACC CHAMPIONS!
Biomedical Engineer 1993	1992 EAST REGIONAL CHAMPIONS!!
Duke University, Durham, NC	AND 1992 NCAA NATIONAL CHAMPIONS!!!
August 31, 1992 - May 16, 1993	Duke football? What's that?
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.abortion,alt.politics.bush