From: aatresa@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (Teresa Kline)
Subject: Re: advice sought
Followup-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Yeah, *right* !
Date: 26 Aug 1992 13:09 EST  

In article <scott_silverstein-250892161837@lasagne.med.yale.edu>, scott_silverstein@yccatsmtp.ycc.yale.edu writes...
>I had a mid-30's woman friend who relates a history of sexual abuse by a
>now-deceased relative.  She'd been in a number of dysfunctional
>relationships with men over the past decade.

I can relate to this.  I've had several dysfunctional relationship because 
of the abuse I suffered.  It's an easy trap to fall into when you've been 
told most of your life (by words and actions) that the only value you have 
is sex.  

> 
>Trying to be her friend has been a roller coaster from day 1.

It *does* tend to be a rollercoaster.  If you can, and you want to continue 
this relationship, one thing to keep in mind is that she is also on that 
rollercoaster.

>If I behave nicely, she suspects "manipulation."  She says she
>doesn't understand the attraction, is not sure she deserves good
>people or things.  

I've got a couple of friends that could tell you stories about me!  :-)
I didn't believe I was any good at anything.  I have a masters' degree in 
engineering, am reasonably competent in most areas of my life, can converse 
on a number of topics, am well-read, but *still* felt that I didn't deserve 
anyone's friendship.  That I was just a waste of space and air.  It takes 
time to overcome that.  And *she* has to want to badly enough to go through 
the work necessary.  You, unfortunately, can't do it for her.

>That maybe everything that goes wrong in her life is her fault.  

I was ready to accept responsibility for global warming.  :-)
I never gave myself credit for *anything* I did right.  But, boy, could I 
beat myself up over *everything* I did wrong.

>She talks endlessly about "how men are all scum." 

Perhaps in her experience this is true.  If she's been in a number of 
dysfunctional relationships with men as well as her abuse, she (through her 
own data taking) has "proof" that men are scum.  It's a generalization 
based on her experience.  Not good science, but pretty normal behaviour.  
Not just for survivors, either.  
*If* you are willing to continue the relationship, you will provide data 
that doesn't fit her analysis.  You will show her that *all* men aren't 
scum.  That some are ok.  With *that* new data, she will begin to look at 
the generalizations and perhaps change her words.
Also, if you want to continue the relationship, you must also realize that 
you have the right to tell her that she hurts you when she makes that 
statement.  You are male, and you aren't scum.  Therefore, you'd appreciate 
it if she wouldn't keep saying that.  

>My confrontation with her about these behavior patterns led to (I fear) a 
>permanent end of a friendship; I lost my temper after a few months of this.

I can understand it.  Do you really think that you've caused a permanent 
end to the friendship?  Do you really *want* it to be an end?  
If you want to continue the friendship, you need to talk to her.  Tell her 
why you lost your temper.  Basically, the same thing you need to do in any 
relationship:  talk, talk, talk.  
It will probably be hard for her to open up at first.  Keep trying.  Tell 
her how *you* feel.  Don't tell her *she* hurt you by saying X; tell her it 
hurt you to hear it because...  It's much less confrontational, and a lot 
of survivors have difficulty with confrontations.

> 
>She had attached herself to another woman who is divorced and very bitter
>as well, which I feel is not the best kind of person for her to be hanging
>around with.  

Perhaps, perhaps not.  She must make these decisions for herself.  She'll 
make mistakes; doesn't everyone?  I think everyone, survivor or not, has 
messed up in relationship choices.  
Then again, if she hasn't gotten in touch with her own anger about her 
abuse, and released that anger, this woman might help her do that by giving 
her a good example of *how* (I certainly didn't know how).

> 
>My friends told me (several times) to "ditch big time."  Yet I'm not that
>way.
> 
>Comments or suggestions appreciated.  Thanks.

I think I gave you a few comments.  A suggestion, if you *want* to continue 
the relationship, is to get a copy of The Courage to Heal for yourself, and 
perhaps one for her (if she's ready to work on her abuse).  You may get a 
better appreciation for what *she* is dealing with and also what you can do 
to help.  There is a good section in there for partners, but I'd read the 
whole book.  It might give you a little insight into what she's thinking.

Above all, you need to make the decision *for yourself* of what you want 
and what is best *for you*.  If you don't feel that you can cope with the 
relationship, make that decision.  If you choose to continue, realize that 
it is not an easy thing to do.  
And just to give you a little help, if anyone knows how hard it is to be in 
any kind of relationship with a survivor, it's the survivor.  After 
watching a number of people walk away rather than deal with the ups and 
downs, we know how hard we are to live with! :-)  I can say that I 
personally think we're worth it.  When we come out the other side, we're 
strong, courageous, and some of the most gentle people you'd ever want to 
know.  It's getting to that other side that's a bear!!  :-)

Gentleness to all.
-- Teresa

		Life -- just for the FUN of it!!!!