HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: peacock5293@iscsvax.uni.edu (Greywolf)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Pauline Epistles (was "Football on a baseball diamond"...)
Date: 21 Jul 92 00:00:32 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <CHRISTIA%92071705560785@ASUACAD.BITNET>, Wolfgang Hutter <HUTTER@DULRUU51.BITNET> writes:

{massive amounts of text deleted}

Not sure which "side" to take on this, but I'm afraid that the mention of
"adjusting" anything taught in the Bible (whether that is what is truly being
suggested or not) to fit "today's world" is something that clicks off a few
alarms.  Such arguments are often used to justify various things from throwing
away outmoded concepts of Creation to allowing practicing homosexuals as
clergy.  I just wonder where one draws the line?

The way I see it, the areas that I have most conflict with (or concern over)
seems to originate in the Pauline epistles.  He has quite a few things to say
about what women should or shouldn't do ... One thing has puzzled me is that
I don't really know what to *do* with Paul's teachings.  I mean, if I can't
trust Jesus, who can I trust?  Therefore, all those red-letter passages I can
pretty much take as gospel.  =)  However, what do I do with Paul's teachings? 
Are they commands of God, equal to Christ's teachings?  I kind of wonder how
I'm supposed to interpret other books of the Bible as well.  Ecclesiastes, for
instance.  I never quite understood that.  I had been told that it is
attributed to King Solomon, and, after reading about how many wives he had and
his practice of setting up the high places for some pagan gods (at least I
think -- I might have my kings mixed up...) I wonder if I'm *really* supposed
to take all this teaching about everything being in vain seriously ...

Anyway, the way I've worded my thoughts here, without any real attempt at
diplomacy, it sounds awfully heretical as I read over it.  After all, voicing
doubts about certain books that were included in the Bible, tsk, tsk... 
However, I figure that if I've got some questions in my head (some doubts, some
concerns), best to deal with them and see if I'm right, wrong or whatever
rather than just leaving them bottled up.  Fire away!
-- 
-Jordan            ..      PEACOCK5293@iscsvax.uni.edu
                  .OO.     Jordan Peacock (Jordan Greywolf)
                  O/\O     (New Address):  1610 Parker
                   --                      Cedar Falls, IA  50613
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:47:00 EST
From:         "Lauren H. Arango" <LHARANGO@OWUCOMCN.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Clinton's acceptance speech and Scriptural allusions

At Bible study this morning, someone mentioned that the "scripture" that
Bill Clinton quoted in his acceptance speech comes not from the Bible,
but from the Book of Mormon.

Does anyone know if this is so?
                                        God's peace,
                                        Lauren
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Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 09:37:26 EST
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: your recent trip
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU
              dhahran" at Jul 30, 92 3:39 pm

>
>Ian,
>
>     If you are able to, tell us a little about your recent trip.  How
>did you find things?  What is the LORD doing there that He showed you?
>                                           Peace, Zane.
>

Hi Zane,

The last trip I went on was purely a holiday, it was not related to the
church in any way.

Bye the way, have you received anything from my church lately?? Our elder
said that he would send you a couple of things..



---------------------+-------------+-----------------------------------------
Ian Williams         |    _--_|\   |      Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems       |   /      \  |	  Phone	  : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia  |   \_.--*_/  |
                     |         v   |
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Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 12:29:04 EDT
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From:         Brenda Curry-White <BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Nomail for maternity leave

Urban Research Institute
Phone: 502-588-6626

This afternoon I will be setting nomail in preparation for baby's arrival.
Assuming we ever get our home computer back from the shop, I will be
checking e-mail occasionally, and assuming we get it back in time, David
will send a post to the list when the baby is born.

I will be interested to find out how the vote turns out, although when I
think about what is about to happen in my life all of the little electronic
squabbles, the insults, the flames seem to pale in comparison and don't
seem all that important in the grand scheme of things.

Read you in October!

Brenda Curry-White
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Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 08:11:18 CDT
From:         Tom Brewer <NOTTMB@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Practical witchcraft

Stephen Kingston:

My main point is witchcraft is sin, inside or outside the camp. Do you think I
was "condemning" the individual in question? Are you coming to unjustified
conclusions, or am I? You implied twice the individual was being condemned
by asking "Did Jesus condemn...?"

No, Stephen, I've been praying about these posts and take them very
seriously, and I believe that you do too. I am not condemning anyone. The
Scriptures are clear, a witch is condemned already. The wrath of God abides on
a witch the same as any other unbeliever. And the Grace of God can save a
witch the same as any other unbeliever.

Tom Brewer
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Date:         Sun, 26 Jul 1992 09:27:00 GMT
From:         CLIFF@AUC.EG
Subject:      Re: Koran

Zane,
Hi, Cliff here again from Egypt!
If you need any more info about the Qur'an or Arabic you can feel free
to contact me.
Cliff Gardner, American Univ in Cairo
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Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:23:46 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Thanks God, I'm alive!

Chris Reed:

Praise God, indeed!  Though I am always willing to submit to the will
of God in all things (at least I *say* so, anyway, though I don't
always *feel* willing--see previous posts), I would hate to have lost
you.

Hope you enjoy (ed) your day off!
                                 Love INC,
                                          ---Kerry
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 07:51:59 -0500
From:         David Richmond <RICHMOND@UTDALLAS.BITNET>
Subject:      Reply to Marci

M>David and Vicky:  Best wishes to the both of you and a heartfelt, WOW!

V>Thanks!  We are "Wow"-ing ourselves too.  :-)
D: Thanks from me too.

M>People hear about pen-pal romances but now we have our own example of
 >e-mail romance in the making.  So tell us more, are you officially
 >engaged (I assumed so ....) do you plan a long engagement?

D:Well, I think of "official" as meaning an engagement ring, and I'm too
  much of a romantic to send a ring through the mail. (-: Our first major
  hurdle is actually getting together in person. Imagine trying to explain
  to your parents that you are planning to marry someone you haven't yet
  physically met! (-:  Fortunately, my church family is elated, since we
  have a prophetic confirmation about it.

D:At the latest, Vicky's planning to come to Dallas in December for
  Christmas.  I'm working on getting a job right now, so once that's
  done I'm hoping to fly up to Northampton, MA to see Vicky.

M>What cities are you in and who will move to where.

D:I answered the cities question above (Dallas, Northampton).  Since I
  have a very strong calling to my church, I think it's been assumed so
  far that Vicky is moving to Dallas. Besides, since Vicky is originally
  from Malaysia, Northampton wouldn't really be home for either of us.
  Dallas is also a much better city for our respective degrees
  (Vicky - CS ; David - physics).

M>Scoop, scoop, and more scoops.
 >Since this is a community romance you gotta keep us posted on the details.
 >Again, congratulations and best wishes.  Marci Hendrix

D:Thanks again, Marci. We're glad to hear that folks are interested.

In Him,
	Vicky & David
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Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 10:48:00 MDT
From:         MARCHIBOLD@MSCD.BITNET
Subject:      Re: SO-CALLED... (ultra-sounds)

Bill -

Just a comment about MacArthur Hill.  He is an OB/Gyn in Denver, I know him.
Yes, of course he's a business man because he has a private practice here.
However, I also know that he offers free ultra-sounds and medical care to
women who cannot afford private care and change their mind about abortion at
the clinic door.

That's just a comment about one particular doctor.  BTW when I said above
that they change their mind at the clinic door I meant the abortion clinic
door where they have talked with sidewalk counselors.  There is a growing
number of women and their babies in Denver that pro-life people are
continuing to help who have changed their mind at the clinic door.
(Sorry about that convoluted sentence)

Molly Archibold
MARCHIBOLD@MSCD
Xref: sparky bit.listserv.christia:11415 talk.religion.misc:12531
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Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 21:04:53 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      William Wilberforce (30 July)
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET, BSTUDY-L@UTARLVM1.BITNET,
              IVCF-L@UBVM.BITNET

WILLLIAM WILBERFORCE (30 JULY 1833)

(transferred from 29 July to avoid concurrence with Mary and Martha
of Bethany)

William Wilberforce was born in 1759 and served in Parliament from
1780 to 1825. A turning point in his religious life was a tour of
Europe. In the luggage of a travelling companion he saw a copy of
William Law's book, A SERIOUS CALL TO A DEVOUT AND HOLY LIFE. He
asked his friend, "What is this?" and received the answer, "One of
the best books ever written." The two of them agreed to read it
together on the journey, and Wilberforce embarked on a lifelong
program of setting aside Sundays and an interval each morning on
arising for prayer and religious reading. He considered his options,
including the clergy, and was persuaded by Christian friends that
his calling was to serve God through politics. He was a major
supporter of programs for popular education, overseas missions,
parliamentary reform, and religious liberty. He is best known,
however, for his untiring commitment to the abolition of slavery and
the slave trade. He introduced his first anti-slavery motion in the
House of Commons in 1788, in a three-and-a-half hour oration that
concluded: "Sir, when we think of eternity and the future
consequence of all human conduct, what is there in this life that
shall make any man contradict the dictates of his conscience, the
principles of justice and the law of God!"
    The motion was defeated. Wilberforce brought it up again every
year for eighteen years, until the slave trade was finally abolished
on 25 March 1806. He continued the campaign against slavery itself,
and the bill for the abolition of all slavery in British territories
passed its crucial vote just four days before his death on 29 July
1833. A year later, on 31 July 1834, 800,000 slaves, chiefly in the
British West Indies, were set free.

    Let thy continual mercy, O Lord, enkindle in thy Church the
    never-failing gift of charity, that, following the example of
    thy servant William Wilberforce, we may have grace to defend
    the children of the poor, and maintain the cause of those who
    have no helper; for the sake of him who gave his life for us,
    thy Son our Savior Jesus Christ.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)
Subject: Re: Divorce and Remarriage
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 02:35:20 GMT

In article <9207291519.AA28475@host0.COLBY.EDU> "Toni J. Benner" <tjbenner@COLBY.EDU> writes:
>any toes, but my daughter has a friend who obtained an annulment in
>the Catholic Church, but she had to pay big bucks to do it. She then

   She had to pay big bucks because the Church had to pay out big bucks
to have the case investigated.  What is investigated is evidence as to
whether or not the marriage was valid.  This can take lots of time, and
experts must be hired who must be fairly paid.  The cost of each case is
different, because each case requires a different amount of investigation.

   By the way, there's no such thing as an annulment in the Catholic
Church; it's a decree of nullity.  The Church does not nullify the
marriage; it only decrees that it finds the marriage invalid (sort of
like a jury finds a defendant either guilty or not guilty).  There are
some abuses in granting decrees of nullity, usually due to Church officials
being more "pastoral" than they should be.  Pope John Paul has warned the
American bishops against this practice.

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps, Indiana University
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
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Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 10:15:26 MST
From:         Madge McBurney <ISPMOM@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Nomail for maternity leave
              31 Jul 1992 12:29:04 EDT from <BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>

Brenda,

Our prayers go with you and David (and Baby!!).  Even though we'll miss
you around here, I do agree with your sense of priorities!!  I'm sure
Steven will send you a private note on the results of Christia's vote.

In His Love,
Madge
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 09:32:00 -0400
From:         Lora Harris <LHARRIS@UPEI.CA>
Subject:      St. Mary Magdalene, July 22

A reading from the homilies of St. Gregory the Great on the Gospels.
(Hom. 25, 1-2.4-5)

The Feast of St. Mary Magdalen, July 22

When Mary Magdalen came to the grave and did not find the Lord's
body, she imagined that it had been taken away, and went to tell the
disciples.  They came, looked, and believed that it actually had
happened as Magdalen told them.  The gospel account continues: 'The
disciples, therefore, went away again to their home.  But Mary
remained standing at the tomb, weeping.

        At this point we must stop and reflect upon the ardent love in
the heart of this woman who would not leave the Lord's grave even
after his own disciples had gone away.  She continued seeking him whom
she could not find; in tears she kept searching; and, afire with love,
she yearned for him whom she believed had been removed.  Thus it
happened that she alone saw him, she who had remained behind to seek
him, simply because a truly good act involves the virtue of
perseverance.  For the lips of Truth itself have said; 'He who
perseveres to the end, he shall be saved.'

        She had already sought and found nothing.  But she persevered,
and therefore found the object of her love.  While she was seeking,
her longing grew stronger and stronger until at highest pitch it was
allayed in the embrace of him whom she was seeking.  Holy desires grow
with delay; if they fade through delay they are no desires at all.
Such must be the love that inflames anyone who is reaching out for the
truth.  This is why David says: 'My soul thirsts for the living God;
when shall I come and behold the face of God?'  And the Church says in
the Song of Songs, 'I am wounded by love', and again, 'My soul failed
me.'

        'Woman, why are you weeping? Whom do you seek?' She is asked
the cause of her sorrow so that her longing may increase, for when she
names the one she seeks she burns with yet greater love for him.

        'Jesus said to her: Mary.'  First of all he called her by the
title common to all her sex, and she did not recognize him.  So now he
calls her by her own name, as if to say plainly: 'Now recognize the
one who recognizes you.  For I know you, not in some general way along
with other people, but personally.'  Addressed by her own name, Mary
recognizes her maker and straightway calls him 'Rabboni', that is
'Teacher'.  Outwardly it was he who was the object of her search, but
inwardly it was he who was teaching her to search for him.


From: "From the Fathers to the Churches: Daily Spiritual Readings "
      Editor, Brother Kenneth CGA
      Collins Liturgical Publications, Icehouse One - 401
      151 Union Street, San Francisco, CA 94111-1299
      copyright 1983 William Collins and Sons Ltd.
      ISBN 0-00-599749-6
      BV30.F76 1987 242'2 87-15090
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Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 12:11:00 MDT
From:         MARCHIBOLD@MSCD.BITNET
Subject:      RE: Repentence

To Jstahley

You will certainly be in my prayers, it sounds like a very heavy, difficult
time for you.  Please remember that none of us deserve God's love.

When Jesus wanted to wash Peter's feet and told him that he, Peter would
not be a part of Jesus if he didn't let Jesus wash his feet Peter's
response (as he was aware of his sinfullness) was - not my feet only
but wash all of me.  Judas' response to his sin was to despair and go
hang himself.  God's love and forgiveness is available to all of us
all we need to do is fall at His throne and accept it.

It is when we are aware of sin in our lives and listening intently to
His still small voice that we are most likely to hear Him.

Hang in there.  God loves you and wants to hold you close to Himself.

In His Love

Molly Archibold
MARCHIBOLD@MSCD
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Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 10:14:10 EDT
From:         Julie Nott <STR008@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Adoption

I would like to talk to some Christians who were adopted, are searching
for their biological parents, etc.

I'm not adopted but I have a half-sister that was given up for adoption
and am struggling with a search.  I would just like to either start a
discussion on the subject with some people via either private e-mail or
some Christian viewpoints via the list.

Thanks...
Jules
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 08:37:48 EDT
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From:         Brenda Curry-White <BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Abortion flames

Urban Research Institute
Phone: 502-588-6626

Well, I've done pretty well for myself this time, staying out of it (smile).
Those of you who have been on the list for the past few months might remember
when it was me who posted about how hurt and offended I was.  I nearly left
the list because of it.  I'm glad I didn't.

Abortion has once again caused us to be at odds with one another, to insult
one another, and to cry out with indignation about our treatment of one
another.  I wonder how many times the subject must come up before we learn
and remember that before he died, Christ prayed for our unity.  Is abortion
more important than that prayer of God himself?  Perhaps for some, but that
is another issue.

I am at odds with many on this list on the topic of abortion, and so this
morning while reading posts with flames flying high I though about those
people with whom I disagree.  Is there anything good that I can say about
them?  I watched "Bambi" over the weekend, so here's a little Disney
morality:  "If you can't say nothing good, don't say nothing at all."  What
a world this could be if we followed Thumper's father's advice!

There are good things I can say about those with whom I disagree.  On other
issues, I've even learned from them.  Marty has taught me that Catholics
make good Christians, contrary to what I was taught while growing up.  Kerry
has shown that for all her strong opinions she is human, with fears and
problems just like the rest of us, and she tries to seek God's will in
dealing with them.  And on I could go.

Thank you, God for Christian friends around the globe.  Forgive us when we
see issues as more important than the love for one another that you wish for
us.  Guide us as we seek to find the answers we search for.  Give us the
ability to disagree in love.

Brenda Curry-White
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 12:41:08 CST
From:         A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Subject:      Sit at Jesus' feet

Hi Saints,

This was the lema for the Anual Congress of the Christian Renewal in the Holy
Spirit this year (July 3, 4 & 5) It was just Great ! The Lord did many wonderful
things with His people. About 15,000 young men and women went there. The main
message from the Lord was 'BELOVED, YOU ARE MISSIONERS OF MY LOVE' This  idea
repeated many times in many visions and prophsies the Lord gave us.

But, the best of all, My brother Carlos went with us, and he sorrounded his
heart to Jesus acepting Him as his Lord and Saviour !!! With tears in his eyes
and an incomparable joy in my heart we praised the Lord for His great Love. As
He told me 3 years ago, He is saving my family !

Also went with us Gabriel and Elias, as you know their brother Ruben died last
month, they were good christians already but they had a great experience with
God there and they renewed their faith. Lalo is one of the leaders of the
Group at my church, he also went and (although he only went the last day) the
Lord is making great things in him.

We started to pray on saturdays (after the study group) and the Lord is guiding
us well. The First time He gave me a prophesy and this saturday He gave Lalo and
me a Vision (a diffrent one, with similar message). Please pray so that the
Great things the Lord is doing with us give fruits of holyness and love in our
lives.

I invite you to pray with us Saturday 8:30-10:00 pm CST. :-)

Shalom,
Memo.
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 08:34:00 EST
From:         "Taste and see that the Lord is good" <02RSMILLER@BSUVAX1.BITNET>
Subject:      Another prayer update

For those of you praying for the situation with my my roommate's
(Tammy's) sister, I've got another update.

Angie (the sister) has been sentenced to two years in prison for her part
in a robbery.  In a way, this is good, because this is the
minimum amount of time that was expected.  Still, though, she's
only nineteen, she has a newborn little girl, and she has
cancer.  The baby is currently with her older sister (not Tammy,
but another sister) who does not have legal guardianship.  So,
if something were to happen to the baby, she could not legally
obtain medical help.  At this point and time, we're not sure
if anyone's going to obtain guardianship?

Also, Angie does have cancer, and, as a result,
she is in a local jail until the court can figure out what they
need to do along the liness of medical help, etc.  So...

I'm sorry if this sounds vague and unclear, but Tammy and I are
almost 4 hours away from the situation, and Tammy's family has
a habit of not telling Tammy the full story.  This is only the info
that Tammy was able to drag out of her mother and other sister.

So, if you'd like to, you may continue to pray for this situation
with this new info in mind.  Please though, if you are praying, pray
for the salvation of Angie and the rest of Tammy's family.

Thank you so much!

Blessings!
Becky
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