HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: young@serum.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: PCRM and milk (revisited)
Date: 22 Nov 92 14:43:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: pixel.1992Nov22.144325.1467
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Originator: young@sasquatch

In article <By3uK1.JCM@wpg.com> russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence) writes:

>From article <1992Nov20.155324.27337@pixel.kodak.com>, by young@serum.kodak.com (Rich Young):
>> The following is from THE TUFTS DIET AND NUTRITION LETTER: Vol. 10,
>> No. 10, December 1992, and is quoted without permission.
>>  ...
>> MILKING THE FACTS

[...]

>> [......There is little evidence that these proteins can be absorbed
>> intact after the gut has "closed."]
>
>One of the author's of the recent New England Journal of Medicine 
>article on this topic was quoted by a Scientific American staff 
>writer as saying that there's some evidence to indicate that 
>dairy products in the diets of adults can, indeed, pass through 
>the intestinal wall, after gut closure.  What's the scoop?  
>
>Karjalainen, et al.  "Bovine Albumin Peptide as a Possible Trigger
>of Diabetes Mellitus".  _NEJM_.  July 30, 1992.  pp 302-307.
>
>Rennie, John.  "Formula for Diabetes".  _Scientific American_, 
>October, 1992.  pp 24-26.

	Please note the phrase "little evidence."  One study does not a
	forgone conclusion make.


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: bharat@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Bharat Shyam)
Subject: Lactose Intolerance : Help
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: sci
Date: 22 Nov 92 05:24:44 GMT


Hi,
	I grew up guzling milk but find that I am lactose intolerant
now. Can someone explain what happened in my intestines that makes
my life so miserable now ?

Also, does anyone know of any permanent cures that they have heard of
for this problem. I would also like to hear from other lactose 
intolerant individuals about how they cope with it - especially
eating out and the like. Very often, I do not realise that a 
certain food has milk in it until I eat it ....

Thanks,
Bharat
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: young@serum.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Subject: Re: Vitamin C and colds/flu
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 00:03:22 GMT

In article <13617@hans> hans@Software.Mitel.COM (Hans Johnsen) writes:

>young@serum.kodak.com quotes TUFTS:
>>	Consider that when researchers at Arizona State University gave
>>	nine men and women 500 milligrams of vitamin C daily -- more than
>>	eight times the Recommended Daily Allowance for the nutrient, yet
>>	an amount commonly found in just one pill -- two people complained
>>	of chronic diarrhea within two weeks.  When the researchers
>>	increased the dosage to 2,000 milligrams a day, two more people
>>	suffered dry nose and nosebleeds.  In other words, almost half 
>>	the group had adverse reactions, which is why you might want to 
>>	think twice about taking megadoses of vitamin C during the cold
>>	and flu season.
>
>This is the great Tufts that you keep touting? Nine men? No women?
>what kind of quack-operated study is this. Chronic diarrhea? How can it
>be chronic after only two weeks? And I get dry nose and nosebleeds
>without taking vitamin C.

   First, it's not a "quack" study, but it is also clearly not definitive.
   As with many studies of this type, it serves more to raise questions and
   point the direction for further, more definitive, exploration.  I would
   like to note, since you've offered this [valid] criticism, however, that
   Dr. John McDougall uses a study with SIX arthritis sufferers to claim
   that vegetarianism "cures" rheumatoid arthritis.  I trust that you will
   be equally discerning when reading books of THAT genre.

   As for diarrhea, after TWO WEEKS of diarrhea, virtually ALL physicians
   would be comfortable with a diagnosis of "chronic"...especially since
   most common pathogen-induced diarrhea lasts for a day or two at most.

   And as for your nosebleeds, there is nothing in the article which says
   that you MUST take excess vitamin C to get nosebleeds, only that you
   MAY get nosebleeds if you DO take excess.  You may also get nosebleeds
   for a wide variety of other reasons.

>As far as I am concerned, this study tells me absolutely nothing. I am
>surprised that someone such as Rich, who is always getting on other
>people's backs about about using bad studies to support their agenda,
>would wuote a study such as this.

   The data was not presented as a definitive answer, but merely as another
   interesting bit of information; there are other, far more definitive,
   studies which have shown that vitamin C has absolutely no effect on colds.
   This is merely another tidbit.  Now, had I claimed that this was The
   Final Answer(tm) on the subject, THEN I would have been falling into the
   trap of those worthy souls I have criticised in the past.



-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
From: cindy@berkp.uadv.uci.edu (Cindy Windham)
Subject: Re: Request: Information on effects of sugar on mood
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Organization: University Advancement, University of Calif., Irvine
Date: 19 Nov 92 17:35:09 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.044200.9453@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>In article <cindy.139@berkp.uadv.uci.edu> cindy@berkp.uadv.uci.edu (Cindy Windham) writes:
>>I've noticed that whenever my 3 1/2yo son has even a small amount of
>>sugar, he undergoes a drastic change in mood and activity level.
>>He becomes hyperactive (he's isn't normally) and mean-spirited.
>>He bounces on the furniture, dashes about aimlessly, throws hard
>>objects at the family, and has a glassy-eyed look that leads me to
>>believe that he is oblivious to anything I say to him.  Has anyone
>>else experienced this?  Does anyone know what causes it?

>Yes; reading quack books about the horrors of sugar and believing them.

>-- 
>Steve Dyer
>dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer

Steve -

Just because you aren't affected by sugar or food additives doesn't mean
that no one else is either.  I didn't read any quack books about "the
horrors of sugar" and then postulate that my son must therefore be
reacting to them.  My son was having Jekyll-Hyde types of mood swings,
and _then_ I looked around to try to find a cause for them.  It 
wasn't until just recently (and he's 3 1/2 years old!) that I noticed
that his manic phases occur right after eating sugar-containing 
foods.  Furthermore,ask any preschool teacher and they'll 
tell you that certain foods do have this effect on children.  I was
looking for a possible scientific/medical explanation for this 
condition.  I guess sci.med.nutrition is not the newsgroup that I
thought it was.  What exactly is this newsgroup for, if not to discuss 
nutrition and it's effect on a person's physical and mental well-being?  

- Cindy Windham
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,misc.fitness
From: mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur)
Subject: Re: Fit or Fat Facts?
Organization: Intermetrics Inc, Cambridge MA
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:14:59 GMT

betsys@cs.umb.edu (Elizabeth Schwartz) writes:
>>Since so many people here keep mentionning it, I picked up a copy of
>>"The New Fit or Fat" by Covert Bailey. Ok, I believe that exercise is
>>necessary to lose weight, but how substantiated is the assertion here
>>that fit people burn more calories than fat people, even when idle? 
>>Is there any research to support these claims?

There is research to support these claims, and there is research to
support the opposite as well.  Unfortunately, we are living in a time
when what is known about fat metabolism (especially as it relates to
the obese) is not well established.

BTW, my reading of FoF is not that fit people burn more calories than
fat when idle (which they do, but generally because of higher lean
body mass), but that fit people burn more *fat* at rest than do fat
people.  I think it was Ed Pavelchek who was anti-FoF, because his
exercise physiology text claimed that a muscle cell at rest consumed
something like 95% fat--so he couldn't see how Bailey claimed that
exercise could make that any better.  I simply suggest that fat people
do not burn fat as well as fit people--but they store it a lot better!

The way I read it, fat people have two problems.  One, their muscle cells
lose the ability to burn fat efficiently (in part because almost all
exercise can quickly push them into more "anaerobic" levels) and two,
to burn fat, it must be in your blood stream.  Bailey's theory is
that fat people get much better at storing fat in their cells, and once
it's in the cells, it's pretty much "stuck."  So, in general, fat people
store fat; fit people use it.

Bailey says exercise increases enzymes that are used to burn fat in muscle 
cells and that it also increases enzymes that are used to release fatty 
acids from fat cells.  I find neither assertion hard to accept, and like 
other posters, am happily exercising (and also waiting for Bailey's next 
book, which is rumored to be more "scientific").

Beth Mazur                   "...life is more than a vision.  The sweetest
mazur@inmet.inmet.com         part is acting after making a decision."
...!uunet!inmet!mazur                                  -- The Indigo Girls
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: bsimon@elvis.stsci.edu (Bernie Simon)
Subject: Re: Vitamin C and colds/flu
Followup-To: sci.med.nutrition
Organization: None. This saves me from writing a disclaimer.
	<1992Nov20.154812.27152@pixel.kodak.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:51:38 GMT

Diarrhea is a well known sid effect of excessive Vitamin C intake,
although 500 mg. is surprisingly low for this effect to happen. I've
never heard of any other report of nosebleeds or dry nose from Vitamin
C and 9 people seems an awfully small sample to base a conclusion on.
Could this be a case of "post hoc ergo propter hoc"?
--
Bernie Simon	(bsimon@stsci.edu)		O tempora! O mores!

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: kja@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (krista.j.anderson)
Subject: Re: Eating spoiled food reduces lifetime?
Followup-To: sci.med.nutrition
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:04:56 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.193420.26015@osf.org>, drand@spinner.osf.org (Douglas S. Rand) writes:
> In article <BxnuDI.32M@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>, jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
> |> bsimon@elvis.stsci.edu (Bernie Simon) wrote:
> |> > Keeping oils in the refrigerator is a good idea. Also, it's best to use a
> |> > mono-unsaturated oil, like Canola oil instead of polyunsaturated oils. 
> |> 
> |> Rape (canola) oil contains variable but sometimes dangerous levels of
> |> erucic acid (cardiotoxic, particularly in men).  Its production is also an
> |> ecological disaster: it exhausts soil very quickly, it spreads as a weed,
> |> and its pollen is one of the worst allergens there is for hay fever and
> |> asthma sufferers.  Other monounsaturated oils, like olive, have none of
> |> these problems.

> It's worth noting that the reason rape seed oil is available is 
> that they process it to remove the erucic acid.  At least this
> is my understanding.  I prefer olive oil myself (and we can eat
> the fruit too).

It's a shame that canola oil has these environmental problems since
it may be preferable to other vegetable oils because it contains
more omega-3-linolenic acid.  Maybe flax seed oil will be the oil
of the future since it has lots of omega-3; then we could all wear
more linen, too.  :-)  (Or is that a different kind of flax?)
-- 
Krista Anderson
krista@ihlpf.att.com  or  ihlpf!krista@att.att.com  or  att!ihlpf!krista
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sudesh@utkal.njit.edu (T. J. Sudesh)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Request: Information on effects of sugar on mood
Date: 23 Nov 92 17:39:02 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Nov20.125305.12103@vms.eurokom.ie>, mdebuitlear@vms.eurokom.ie writes:
|> In article <1992Nov19.044200.9453@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
|> > In article <cindy.139@berkp.uadv.uci.edu> cindy@berkp.uadv.uci.edu (Cindy Windham) writes:
|> >>I've noticed that whenever my 3 1/2yo son has even a small amount of
|> >>sugar, he undergoes a drastic change in mood and activity level.
|> >>He becomes hyperactive (he's isn't normally) and mean-spirited.
|> >>He bounces on the furniture, dashes about aimlessly, throws hard
|> >>objects at the family, and has a glassy-eyed look that leads me to
|> >>believe that he is oblivious to anything I say to him.  Has anyone
|> >>else experienced this?  Does anyone know what causes it?
|> > 
|> > Yes; reading quack books about the horrors of sugar and believing them.
|> > 
|> > -- 
|> > Steve Dyer
|> > dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
|> 
|> Hey - thats a smart kid, reading already ! :-)
|> 
|> Micheal De Buitlear.
|> M.De.Buitlear@EuroKom.ie

 Hi,
    I am no doctor, but could the symtoms be of "reactive Hypoglycemia" .The 
time span between the ingestion & the manifestation of symtoms could give some
clue.i.e Hyper followed by a strong hypo......
					Please correct me if am wrong about this.

							warm regards,
								sudesh.
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: anne@cs.UAlberta.CA (Anne J.R. Nield)
Subject: Re: Eating spoiled food reduces lifetime?
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:24:47 GMT

psylum@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu (Jan Hastrup) writes:

>What is the appropriate storage procedure for olive oil, 
>one of the recommended monounsaturated cooking oils?  
>After reading all this discussion about spoiling/things 
>turning rancid, I tried setting it in the refrigerator, 
>but it got thick and cloudy.  Is room-temperature storage
>all right?


The home economist "hot line" here advises NOT refrigerating it, but
keeping it in a cool, dark place if possible.

(I also try not to buy it in large quantities -- no matter how good
the deal!!)

Anne

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: rhoge@leven.appcomp.utas.edu.au (Robert Hoge)
Subject: Re: trans- fatty acids
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 22:49:26 GMT

The normal human metabolism can handle a lot of different foodstuffs and
use them to build and maintain a healthy body.  After all, we have the
digestive system of a very versatile, omnivorous hunter-gatherer.  What
we must watch in this age of industrial adulteration of foods for increased
profit and shelf-life is how the foodstuffs have been treated and cooked.

Not only are heated monounsaturated oils unhealthy as such, they are worse
when heated together with starches.  Eat nothing that's been deep-fried
if you're worried about your HDL/LDL ratio.  If you have to heat
fat, use butter or olive oil.

See Dr. Bieler's "Food Is Your Best Medicine".  All you really need to know is
there.

Regards,

-- 
Robert Hoge                           AARNET: Robert.Hoge@appcomp.utas.edu.au
Department of Applied Computing & Mathematics        Phone : +61 03 260 476 
University of Tasmania at Launceston                 Fax :   +61 03 260 368 
Australia
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,misc.fitness
From: pae@teal.csn.org (Phil Earnhardt)
Subject: Re: Fit or Fat Facts?
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:23:55 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.163415.10224@unocal.com> stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:
>I agree.  For me, just personal anecdote.  I consume much less food after
>more than a decade of heavy exercise than before.  In the short term Bailey's
>assertions seem true, but I think it takes several years to become efficient.

I'm not sure why you feel this is inconsistent with what Covert is saying...

His claim is that unfit people generally eat less that fit people. How much
you eat personally is up to you.

Also, unless you've been ignoring nutrition information that's been coming
out most of the 80s, you know that what you eat is far more important than
how much you eat. Increase the complex carbs. Decrease the fats. For most
Americans, decrease the proteins, too. We get far too much in our diet. Go
for unprocessed foods as much as possible.

Your final point is valid: it does indeed take most of us years to make
lasting changes -- to achieve a good level of fitness. Guess what: whatever
we'd been doing before we had also been doing for years! There are two points
with this. First, you'd better choose exercises that you like! Second, have
patience with yourself! One of the big causes of failure on sound
diet/exercise plans is our expectation for instant gratification.

--phil
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: levesque@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Lucie Levesque)
Subject: Re: Request: Information on effects of sugar on mood
Reply-To: levesque@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Lucie Levesque)
Organization: Universite de Montreal
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:16:09 GMT


I agree with Gary; many children react after ingesting sugar
and those symptoms are REAL.  

I think it is best to avoid sugar when one suffer from sugar
intolerance.

Bye,

Lucie
--
   _____________________________________________________________________
   Lucie Levesque, DIRO, U-221          Tel:  (514) 343-6111, poste 3520  
   e-mail:  levesque@iro.umontreal.ca   Fax:  (514) 343-5834              
   _____________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: anne@cs.UAlberta.CA (Anne J.R. Nield)
Subject: Re: Request: Information on effects of sugar on mood
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:46:11 GMT

janet@cs.UAlberta.CA (Janet Service) writes:


>We noticed the same mood swings in our 3 year old after she had
>eaten anything containing sugar.  We cut her sugar intake down and 
>her mood and behaviour improved.  I don't know what causes it as
>no one else in our family has this problem also.  If anyone has
>an answer (other than the thoughtless statment above from someone who
>obviously has not experienced this in their child/family) please
>share it with us.  

>(I did not read about this in a book or see a doctor-yet, it
>was an observation in the child's reaction and our action to
>deal with it).


It is becoming increasingly common for teachers and/or school
administrators to request that parents NOT send highly-sugared
snacks to school with their children.  If you think ONE sugar-
propelled child is bad, try 20 or 30!!

And -- if sugar SEEMS to be the culprit, and eliminating high-
sugar foods eliminates the problem, then trust your own
knowledge and instincts and do it.  You know your child better
than anyone else.

Good luck!

Anne


Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo)
Subject: Heat loss and Microwave Ovens vs. Conventional Ovens?
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:57:40 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Is it that food heated in a microwave oven loses its heat faster than
food heated in a conventional oven?

Or is this just my imagination?

-- 
 Ralph Yozzo (yozzo@watson.ibm.com)  
 From the beautiful and historic Mid-Hudson Valley area of NY state
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: ag167@yfn.ysu.edu (Barry H. Rodin)
Subject: Magnesium Ascorbate? 
Reply-To: ag167@yfn.ysu.edu (Barry H. Rodin)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:53:39 GMT


In a previous article, tsf@CS.CMU.EDU (Timothy Freeman) says:

>In article <BSIMON.92Nov20125138@elvis.stsci.edu> bsimon@elvis.stsci.edu (Bernie Simon) writes:
>
>   Diarrhea is a well known sid effect of excessive Vitamin C intake,
>   although 500 mg. is surprisingly low for this effect to happen.
>
>I agree that it is a side effect of ascorbic acid intake, but I
>haven't experienced it with PH-balanced forms of vitamin C, such as
>magnesium ascorbate.  Could it be that the people in the study were
>taking it in a nonoptimal form to ensure that the side-effects would
>happen?
>--
>Tim Freeman <tsf@cs.cmu.edu>    CompuServe ID 71045,2267 checked occasionally.
>
I have never heard of magnesium ascorbate.
Is this readily available?

How about phosphorus ascorbate ?

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: feustel@netcom.com (David Feustel)
Subject: Re: request for info on egg consumption
Organization: DAFCO: OS/2 Software Support & Consulting
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 00:07:10 GMT

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>In article <1992Nov17.150556.400@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> jil@uts.uucp (Jamie Lubin) writes:
>>And isn't inositol a constituent of lecithin.

>Yes, it is.  And lecithin is another substance, along with inositol,
>which is devoid of any effect on blood lipids.

So lecithin is not an emulsifier that makes cholesterol able to pass
from the blood into cells to be matabolized?
-- 
Dave Feustel N9MYI <feustel@netcom.com>
 
GE knew there was lots of money to be made in the diagnostic medical
machine field since it was only a matter of time before people started
getting sick from the effects of all of GE's toxic and radioactive
waste dumping. I expect GE to get into the Mortuary business next.
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: jil@uts.uucp (Jamie Lubin)
Subject: Re: request for info on egg consumption
Organization: Bellcore, Piscataway, NJ
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 15:22:01 GMT

In article <1992Nov14.172028.19710@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>In article <1992Nov13.153710.5211@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> jil@uts.uucp (Jamie Lubin) writes:
>>I have an article in front of me entitled "Vitamin & Mineral Supplementation"
>>by Dr. Louis A. Johnson, Ph.D. which begins "over the past several years Drs.
>>Frederick Stare and Victor Herbert have campaigned vigorously against the use
>>of vitamin and mineral supplements."
>
>Hmm, I wonder what axe Dr. Louis A. Johnson, Ph.D. has to grind.
>Here's a tip.  Never trust anyone who uses the title "Dr." in
>public who isn't a physician, dentist, podiatrist or psychologist. :-)
 
Thanks for the tip, but even if Johnson is a LAYMAN speaking out for freedom
of choice, I'm inclined to agree with him.

>>The National Nutritional Foods Association has also constantly attacked the
>>above doctors for their stance over the years.  I'd ALMOST sooner read a
>>40-year old Adelle Davis book than one by Victor Herbert.
>
>Herbert was the guy who was invoked here recently on B12 issues.
>I would say that his qualifications are probably a lot more reliable
>(and up-to-date) than Adelle Davis.

Qualifications (if that's important) yes, ideas (if he's anti-supplementation)
no!!
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: young@serum.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Subject: Re: Request: Information on effects of sugar on mood
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 22:39:14 GMT

In article <cindy.139@berkp.uadv.uci.edu> cindy@berkp.uadv.uci.edu (Cindy Windham) writes:

>I've noticed that whenever my 3 1/2yo son has even a small amount of
>sugar, he undergoes a drastic change in mood and activity level.
>He becomes hyperactive (he's isn't normally) and mean-spirited.
>He bounces on the furniture, dashes about aimlessly, throws hard
>objects at the family, and has a glassy-eyed look that leads me to
>believe that he is oblivious to anything I say to him.  Has anyone
>else experienced this?  Does anyone know what causes it?  For now,
>I'm trying to eliminate sugar from his diet, but I'm wondering if he
>will eventually grow out of this.  No one else in the family has
>this condition.

	Not to make light of your situation, but I thought ALL 3 1/2 year
	olds acted like this...a conclusion arrived at after a week with
	my youngest niece.


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition