From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: War Resisters League on Terrorism (should be "of" terrorism)
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 13:28:02 GMT

In <1992Apr14.181454.13615@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad
Hernlem) writes:

>In article <dfs.703188069@ro>, dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:

>> First of all, I find your claim that Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah are
>> separate groups absurd, considering that in article
>> ncsu.1992Mar31.161827.26150 on Match 31, you wrote:
>> 
>> > In Beirut, the Islamic Jihad, considered the terrorist arm of the
>> > Hezbollah, issued a statement claiming credit for the Argentine bombing.
>> > It called the act a suicide bombing, and said the deceased driver of the
>> > vehicle was an Argentine convert to Islam.
>> 
>> You wrote this quoting the Iran Times of Friday, March 27, 1992, and did
>> not dispute that assessment of Islamic Jihad.
>> 
>> Secondly, in article <1991Dec4.154344.4856@ncsu.edu>, you wrote:
>> 
>> > Hezbollah, which advocates wiping out the Jewish state, has stepped
>> > up its attacks against Israeli targets in southern Lebanon to sabotage
>> > the Middle East peace talks.
>> 
>> So is not Hezbollah's STATED GOAL the destruction of Israel, as I asserted?
>> Mr. Hernlem, please make up your mind!

>I would like to state that regarding the last two excerpts of my
>postings, I do disagree with the editorializing which was done in both
>those pieces.

However, in your original posting, you did not voice any disagreement.
Therefore, I find your current squirming to be merely an attempt to
avoid the issue.

>I cannot with good faith present articles from which I
>have cut out these sorts of parts. We have discussed this several times;
>no news article is free from opinion! About the second excerpt one could
>argue that Israel is attempting to derail the peace talks by continuing
>its brutal bombardment of villages in Lebanon in retaliation to attacks
>on its occupation forces and by assassinating Mosawi who has been
>instrumental in the negotiations last year to press for the release of
>virtually all Western hostages and to try to obtain the release of
>Israel's Palestinian and Lebanese hostages and the return of the
>presumed Israeli hostages or their remains.

The difference is, however, that Hezbollah participated in a meeting
in Iran of groups whose STATED PURPOSE (those words again) was to
oppose the peace talks.  Hezbollah has ADMITTED that it stepped up
attacks simply to oppose the peace talks.  Look, Hezbollah admits they
want to destroy Israel, they admit they want to derail the peace
talks.  Why should I believe you when they state their intentions so
clearly?

>> I can tell you, Brad, that 95% of Jews would consider the eradication of
>> Zionism as a profoundly antisemitic act, and whether or not you agree
>> is irrelevant.  The fact is that by having such a goal, Hezbollah has
>> declared war on Jews.

>I know from reading your posts that we both disagree about the
>definition of "Zionism". This is a word which means different things to
>different people. I am absolutely convinced that what the Hezbollah are
>refering to when they criticize "Zionism" is the racist idea that one
>people somehow has a god-given right to land, property, or respect which
>is not given to all people. I do not believe that you, David, believe in
>this "Zionism", and I know that there are many Jews who also do not.
>However, just like you say that many Jews view such criticism of Zionism
>as an affront to Jews, I believe that many Hezbollahis and others view
>the extreme and brutal actions of Israel's government of representing
>the manifestation of Zionism. If I were a PR consultant to the Hezbollah
>I would tell them to knock this "Zionism" bashing off and choose
>different words to express their concerns. We should also remember that
>what we are told that the Hezbollah are saying is the translation of
>people who probably have no interest in making sure that they get it
>right (hence when Hezbollah says something to effect of wiping out
>Zionism they could either be paraphrased as advocating the elimination
>of the form of fascism practiced by the Israeli government or they could
>be paraphrased as promoting the destruction of Israel depending upon
>what sort of reporter you are).

I think not.  The translation of "Zionism" maps 1-to-1 between English
and Arabic.  You're just looking for excuses.  This is the same tactic
used to "ambiguate" the PLO's statements.

>> >Because Hezbollah is a creation of Iran,
>> 
>> Wait a sec - I thought Hezbollah was the "Lebanese resistance movement."  But
>> now, you're telling me that Hezbollah is the creation of a foreign
>government,
>> imposed on the people of Southern Lebanon??? Please make up your mind!  If
>> what you say is true, then Hezbollah has no more legitimacy in Lebanon than
>> the IDF.

>I would agree that Iranians have no more business in Lebanon than the
>IDF unless they were invited but Lebanese have every right to join any
>organization that they wish and Iran has every right to provide
>assistance to these people provided that the Lebanese government allows it.

First of all, the Lebanese government is in no position to allow or
disallow anything in Southern Lebanon.  Given that, we could say that
the SLA is "allowed" by the government as much as Hezbollah.

Secondly, Iran's goal is the export of Islamic revolution and, as a
side "benefit", the eventual destruction of Israel.  It is simply using
the Lebanese people as they have been used by all of their foreign
"friends" for generations.

My post already demonstrated the contempt Iran has for human rights,
religious tolerance or even common decency.  I'd hardly attribute
their involvement in Lebanon to altruism.

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast