HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Subject: Re: The protein myth
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 07:47:28 GMT

In article <1a3m3tINNri7@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano) writes:
>
>In the last thread, Mr. Bulsari states a well documented 
>discussion of the merits of lower proteing intake.
>This discussion focuses on ==The American Diet==.
>
>Yet I notice that Mr. Bulsari is from an Academy in Finland.

I am posting from A'bo Akademi (a university) in Finland. The
posting originates somewhere else. I got it from Michael Traub.
Anyone who has been following this newsgroup for a few months
knows who Michael Traub is.

>It is my impression from reading about diets that none of
>the countries of Europe (including Finland of course)
>practice a rational diet of healthy food.

I think you are right. 

>Wouldn't it be appropriate to include mention of the
>==typical diet in Finland== to see if perhaps the
>people of Finland have achieved the proper diet?

I don't think they have a good diet. I don't know very much about
what Finns eat, and I doubt if any Americans know of a country called
Finland. Yes, I am not in Finland, Texas or Finland, Ohio.

>I agree that perhaps diet problems in America are
>greater in some ways than other countries which is partly
>because of the enormous prosperity (until the new recession)

Please compare the GDP per capita of USA with that of Finland
for the last 5 years. Then compare the distribution of wealth.
You are badly brainwashed if you think that America has 
"enormous prosperity." If prosperity is measured in terms of
nuclear arms, you might be correct.

>which has brought fast food, inexpensive meat and packaged
>food of all types, etc. which in fact few countries of
>Europe have created if any.
>For example in Scandinavia it is a problem to obtain
>fresh fruit and vegetables in the winter.

Perhaps you know of a place called Scandinavia. Visit it in 
winter and convince yourself that fresh fruit and vegetables
are available here. To the paragons of ignorance, there are
no igloos in Finland, and we don't have polar bears walking on
our streets.

>It is always interesting to compare diets between
>countries.
>-- 
>            Mike Romano     Univ. Calif. Berkeley

With regards,


-- 
A. Bulsari                                       Tel.  358 (21) 654 721
V{rmeteknik, ]bo Akademi                         Fax   358 (21) 654 792
Va"rmeteknik, A'bo Akademi   (for the non-Scandinavian screen impaired)
SF 20500 Turku, Finland                          Tlx  57 62301 AABIB SF
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegetarian Weddings
Date: 3 Oct 92 01:54:42 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <BvIE8x.Gz4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> xmpp@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Melody Paul) writes:
>Did anyone see the pull out section of the Chicago Sun-Times September
>24, 1992??  There was a vegetarian wedding cake on the front

Reminds me of something I was thinking recently: apparently one of
the major manufacturers of leghold traps in the United States also
makes a lot of kitchen equipment (I forget the name, but I will look
it up). 

So how about a boycott of their kitchen equipment? And a good way
to do this would be to get some people to start putting ``Please,
no products by xxxx.'' on their wedding invitations. I bet that a
significant fraction of all the kitchen equipment purchased in the
US is purchased as wedding presents. And, of course, recipients
of such invitations would ask ``Why?'', which would offer a good
chance to explain the point to them, and circulate the idea.

This idea may be an entirely crazy of course, but I think one has
to entertain possibly-crazy ideas if one is ever to have good ones.

(I assume we can take it as agreed that leghold traps are entirely
 evil devices, and that we would like their manufacturers to stop
 manufacturing them.)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@serum.kodak.com
Subject: Re: AMA Blasts Animal Rights Group on Milk Panic
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 22:13:12 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.205300.6175@socrates.umd.edu> tara@socrates.umd.edu (Tara McDermott) writes:

[...]

>>>Dr. Neil Barnard, is also the scientific advisor to People for the
>>>Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), an organization that supports
>>>and speaks for the terrorist organization known as the Animal
>>>Liberation Front (ALF).
>
>Which means that Since Neal Barmard (and thus PCRM) support a vegan
>diet (mostly for health reasons), and PETA advocates a vegan diet
>(mostly for ethical reasons) that they are actually the same group?
>PETA is not the ALF.  PCRM is not PETA, and thus NOT the ALF.  I find
>this type of affiliation to discredit an organization a really bad
>habit.

	The statement was that PETA "supports and speaks for" ALF, which
	is a pretty clear statement of association, I'd say.  As for Dr.
	Barnard, it is clear that he both founded PCRM and advises PETA.
	It is reasonable to assume that Dr. Barnard would not have founded
	PCRM and remained the advisor of PETA if the two groups did not have
	something which he found attractive.  Both groups advocate a 
	vegetarian diet, and the groups have at least Dr. Barnard in common.

	There is no claim that they are the same group.  The claim is that
	they support each other because they have similar goals, and that
	at least one organization also supports a "terrorist" group.  No one
	has said that the three groups are interchangeable, but as a personal
	aside, I would have to say that your claim that ALF is not PETA is
	rather like saying that the IRA isn't Sinn Fein(sp?).


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
From: vinson@shiva.seas.upenn.edu (Jack Vinson)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Worst Recipes (Who writes these cookbooks?)
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:41:32 GMT
Organization: The University of Pennsylvania

<mathieu.718374510@gdim> writes this in article mathieu@geod.emr.ca (Pierre Mathieu)
>JSG2@psuvm.psu.edu (Bill Miller) writes:
>
>>I've been going through my cookbooks lately, trying to expand my
>>menus.
{much deleted}

>"Sundays":......
>book although I have also made at least one AWFUL recipe from the same book:
>the tofu-tamari sauce sheppard's pie. Avoid it!! :-)

Really, I LOVE this recipe.  We've made it several times at home and have
enjoyed it every time.  Great food for a cold day!

>I haven't dared
>try anything from the Southern U.S. section yet :-) (has anybody tried
>the cola-cherry-cream cheese salad?).

We made a Southern style New Years dinner last year: Cornbread, something
yummy with black-eyed peas, and boiled greens with "spicey vinegar" that
was all quite yummy.

>	I imagine the main factor making this a better book ("Sundays") is
>that many people contributed to it, not just Mollie Katzen. Not to be
>too harsh on Mollie, I have made some very good recipes from her books too,
>the mushroom-ricotta strudel for instance.

I don't know that Mollie had anything to do with this book.  My
understanding was that she got "in trouble" for using the Moosewood name
and moved on.  I find that I use the _Moosewood_Cookbook_ and the _Enchanted_
Brocolli_Forest_ much less than I use _Sundays_at_Moosewood_ or _Laurel's_
Kitchen_ or Madhur Jaffery's _Worlds of the East_ (or some such) or _The_
Vegitarian_Epicure_.  

The Purple Puddle Eater
Jack Vinson			vinson@unagi.cis.upenn.edu
From: mike@isg.llnl.gov (Michael E. Hummell)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: SF Bay Area:  OCTOBER POTLUCKS/EVENTS/LECTURES
Date: 2 Oct 92 22:41:23 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Lawrence Laboratory  Livermore, CA

OCT 4: Sunday, 10a-4:30p is the Fifth Annual World Vegetarian Day
   Celebration held at Lake Elizabeth at Central Park in Fremont.  Keynote
   speakers are Neal Barnard, MD, and MIchael Klaper, MD.  Vegetarian food
   sampling, workshops, entertainment (the Banana Slug String Band), etc.
   Info (510)484-4627.  If you wish to volunteer to help, call Sandy
   Miller at (408)226-1369
   
OCT 4: Sunday, 3pm-6pm  Vegan Cooking Class with Lynn Andrews in Santa
   Cruz.  Topic: vegan protein sources.  You will prepare & enjoy a tasty
   nutritious meal.  $30.  Call (408)426-3567

OCT 10: Saturday 11am-2pm  Natural Foods Cooking Class with Susanne Jensen
   in San Francisco.  (vegan). Topic: Breakfast and Brunch Ideas.  Organic
   ingredients.  Meal at end of class.  $30.  Call (415)661-4764
   
OCT 11: Sunday, 3:30pm  S.F. Vegetarian Society meeting at Ft. Mason,
   room 370, Bldg. C  (415)775-6874
   
OCT 17: Saturday, 6:30pm, Vegetarian / Vegan Potluck dinner in Palo
   Alto.  These are relatively large events, with lots of great food.
   Enjoy them while you can;  they're going to be discontinued at the end
   of the year.  Penninsula Vegetarians: (415)493-0211 or (415)321-4857.
   
OCT 18: Sunday, 4pm, Earthsave Fall Potluck.  Guest Speakers Dennis &
   Margaret Malone of Milly's Restaurant.  3220 Gallery, 3220 Sacramento
   St., SF.  Info:(415)931-0515
   
OCT 24: Saturday, 6:30pm Potluck meeting of "Vegetarians in Marin",
   Speaker is Jennifer Raymond.  Call Patti or Stan at (415)459-4668
   
OCT 24: Saturday 11am-2pm  Natural Foods Cooking Class with Susanne Jensen
   in San Francisco.  (vegan). Topic: Sea Vegetable Cooking.  Organic
   ingredients.  Meal at end of class.  $30.  Call (415)661-4764
   
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: carlo@wg.estec.esa.nl (CDfreak)
Subject: Re: Egg substitute.
Organization: WG/Estec, Noordwijk, The Netherlands
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 15:24:41 GMT

Lawrence D. Hare is right pizza DOES NOT contain eggs. I know for sure. In all
these years (+/- 30) I have never eaten one that had eggs in it. I don't know
why it appears in your recipe. This is what we use 'back home':

flour (white or whole wheat)
lukewarm water (or milk, it will make softer and tastier)
yeast
sugar (a very small amount used to activate the yeast, +/- one teaspoon)

That's it. I recommend natural yeast to be prepared ahead of time in half a
glass of lukewarm water together with the sugar.

Carlo

P.S. Pizza is originally from Italy. It is spaghetti which was invented by the
Chinese. We simply made an art out of it :-) .

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
G. Scaramelli                             | Damn it, I am not a number!
European Space Agency                     | I say I am a man!
Noordwijk, The Netherlands                | - Bob Seger -
E-mail: carlo@wg.estec.esa.nl             |
Tel. (+31) 1719 83731                     |
Fax. (+31) 1719 84192                     |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: chips@eskimo.celestial.com (cav)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Kosher gelatin
Date: 6 Oct 92 04:19:11 GMT
Organization: >>> Eskimo North (206)-FOR-EVER <<<

In article <BvGzMy.Kt4@unix.amherst.edu> akcobb@unix.amherst.edu (acapella) writes:
}A similar thread took place last spring some time, and I remember
}that someone said that kosher gelatin could, in fact, be made from
}animals.  The thinking was something along the lines that there is
}so much processing done to the animal bones to make gelatin, that
}even though it ended up in (milk-based) yogurt, it did not violate
}the milk-meat rule.  So the upshot was that one can't really be 
}sure that kosher gelatin is vegetarian.  Better to look for
}products that explicitly say "agar-agar."  (Which are not that common.)
}
}Anyone remember this, and/or have any further knowledge on the matter?
}
}Amy

The above is somewhat correct. Rabbis in the kashruth supervison USED to hold
of that reasoning when nothing else could be done. However, it was not a 
generally accepted view and when food processing led to other ways of making
gelatin the 'processing beyond food' line of thought has been abandoned excpet
in dire circumstances. I doubt yogurt is dire. 
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 22:37:43 -0400 
From: Jyothi Rengarajan <jr55+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: RECIPE: Rajma (Indian Kidney beans)


2 cans red kidney beans (rajma) ( you can also use dry beans soaked
overnight and then cooked in water till done)

1 medium onion, chopped finely
I clove garlic, minced
3 cloves
2 large juicy tomatoes, chopped
small bunch fresh cilantro, chopped
2 heaped tsps garam masala (use generic curry powder if you don't have
this. You can buy garam masala in any Indian store)
1/2 tsp chilli powder

Saute onions in oil until slightly brown. Add cloves, garlic and
tomatoes and saute until the tomatoes are soft and runny. Add drained
beans, salt, chilli pdr and garam masala. Mix. Add a little water
depending on the consistency you want. Simmer at low heat for approx 10
mins.
Sprinkle fresh chopped cilantro before serving. Goes well with Green pulao 

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: atri@eecs.umich.edu (Atri Indiresan)
Subject: Re: Inquiry.
Followup-To: rec.food.veg
Organization: University of Michigan
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 22:35:35 GMT

In article <16702@pitt.UUCP> prashant@cs.pitt.edu (The Peasant) writes:
> I wanted to know if anybody knows for a fact if Masur Dal (it's 
> a Red color Lentil, Masur is it's Indian name) is known to be
> carcinogenic or causes Gastric problems? 
> Furthur if it's sale has been banned in certain parts
> of India/World?

I'd be surprised if this were true - I've never heard of this. I
suspect you are confusing Masur dal with Kesar dal (which would look
similar), which grows in parts of Madhya Pradesh, and is actually
quite toxic (can cause blindness, death?). I remember reading a rather
extensive report on the subject in "India Today" about how it was
eaten in years of drought (it is a hardy grain, and grows quite well).
The toxicity could be reduced by boiling, but apparently it isn't
enough to make it safe.

This was several years ago, and die to the extensive publicity at that
time, the government of India has got more sensitive to the issue, and
I believe that there is now better distribution of relief supplies in
drought hit areas.

Atri Indiresan
From: tara@socrates.umd.edu (Tara McDermott)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Question for ethical vegans and vegetarians.
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:52:22 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland University College

nsingh@hqsun5.oracle (Naunihal Singh) writes:

>another approach to all of this is to eat free range chickens -
>chickens which have not been cooped up in cages but allowed to move
>about. These chickens also  usually have not been fed anti-biotics,
>etc. 

Free range chickens doesn't automatically mean that they are non
cruel.  I believe that the definition of "free range chickens" means
that they must have about 2 feet of room to move about.  It does not
mean that they have to have a huge airy outside yard to walk around.
It just means that they have a token amount of space to stretch their
wings and are not stuck in a wire cage.  

Happy Hen, the "free range" eggs that my health food store sells
aren't actually from very happy chickens.  Karen Davis from United
Poultry Concerns visited them and said it was pretty horrible.  I
think that Walnut Acres fits under this heading as well.  (I can't
remember WHERE I saw this, but I remember reading it in an anti-egg
pamphlet - probably UPC).  Another thing to consider when thinking
free range eggs is that the chickens usually only live about 2 years
before they are killed - due to slackening egg production.  Free range
eggs are still a business.  I think the only way you can truly have
healthy non cruel eggs is to raise the chickens yourself.  

If you want to learn more about the production of chickens and eggs, I
suggest you contact Karen Davis of United Poultry Concerns.  She's an
expert that cares very deeply about poultry welfare.  I don't have her
number off hand.  It's a MD number.  If you want the number, e-mail
me.

Tara
-- 
Tara McDermott                     You've got a friend in Pennsylvania,
From: red_trek@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: more famous vegetarians
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:49:12 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

To the person who's making a list of "famous" vegetarians:  you
can add Henry Heimlich, M.D.  Yes, that's right, the same guy who
created teh Heimlich maneuver that has saved dozens of thousands of
choking victims around the world.

An article on Dr. Heimlich appeared in the October '92 issue
of the Vegetarian Times.  Among other things, the article included
the following discussion of Heimlich's recent conversion to a 
vegan lifestyle for health reasons:

"Besides helping others, Heimlich now has a personal mission to improve
his own health.  Last spring, at the suggestion of his wife, Jane (the
author of several books on alternative medicine), he attended a
session at Dr. John McDougall's  vegan health program at Deer
Park, Calif.  After five days at the McDougall Program, Heimlich
became a confirmed vegan -- no meat, fish, eggs or dairy products.

"After seeing his blood sugar and cholesterol levels drop and
his endurance improve, Heimlich has become as convinced of the
health value of a vegan diet as he is about his famous maneuver."

-----

More vegans, tho I dunno if they count as "famous":  Joy Bush and
Bill Mannetti were recently first place winners in their weight 
divisions for over-40 competitors in the World Natural Powerlifting
Federation Connecticut STate Powerlifting Championships.  They're
also both long-time animal activists.  Once again, source is
the Oct. issue of the Vegetarian Times.

----

I would swear the same issue of Vegetarian Times mentioned somewhere
in it that Fred Rogers, of the old American children's show "Mr. Rogers"
was himself vegetarian.  I can't find the reference.  Maybe someone
else can help with that.

---

I would further suggest, if this isn't being done already, that
separate lists be maintained for veg*n athletes and for veg*n individuals
in the medical profession (doctors, nutritionists, dieticians, etc).
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Herbs and Pregnancy
Date: 29 Sep 92 14:39:48 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

amacdona@ac.dal.ca wrote:
> I was wondering what herbs a pregnant woman should avoid.  In particular,
> would there be anything dangerous in an herbal cough remedy?

One common ingredient in these is lobelia.  This has a nicotine-like
action; it constricts blood vessels, including those of the placenta.
That's why women who smoke are more likely to miscarry or produce
underweight babies with the same sort of problems as preemies.  So, on
general principles, it's not a good idea, though I haven't heard of any
study that direct addresses lobelia in particular.

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
From: exusag@exu.ericsson.se (Serena Gilbert,cs,x0364)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: cow's milk
Date: 1 Oct 92 19:21:49 GMT
Reply-To: exusag@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson in North America.
              The opinions expressed are strictly those of the user and
              not necessarily those of Ericsson.

So when did Dr. Spock become an authority on nutrition?

Serena

-So how much do you think they PAID him to say that?
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: What's wrong with free-range eggs ?
Date: 5 Oct 92 20:48:51 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <adwright.718296708@pv1414.vincent.iastate.edu> adwright@iastate.edu writes:
>In <RIGG.92Oct5092029@osnome.che.wisc.edu> rigg@osnome.che.wisc.edu (Tim Rigg) writes:
>
>>
>> [hunting good]
>
> [hunting bad]

Just a brief (and no doubt hopeless) plea: let's argue about the pros and cons
of hunting on talk.politics.animals, not on rec.food.veg

Paul
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: The protein myth
Date: 27 Sep 92 17:38:25 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1992Sep27.074728.20324@abo.fi> abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) writes:
>
>Please compare the GDP per capita of USA with that of Finland
>for the last 5 years. Then compare the distribution of wealth.
>You are badly brainwashed if you think that America has 
>"enormous prosperity." If prosperity is measured in terms of
>nuclear arms, you might be correct.

This can't be right. Everyone knows: "USA - number 1! USA - number 1!"
Surely they can't have been lying to us all this time?

(big smiley)

Paul
From: amy@sequent.com (Amy Paschal)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: cow's milk
Keywords: new report
Date: 1 Oct 92 20:39:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Oct1.203948.5509
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.

In article <1992Sep30.145038.10331@csrd.uiuc.edu> saarinen@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Sirpa Saarinen) writes:
>zedaker@next08wor.wam.umd.edu (Pamela Marie Weller) writes:
>
>>Hello, 
>>	Does anyone have an opinion on the new report on cow's milk by the  
>>Johns Hopkins University, et. al. ( also includes Dr. Spock )?
>
>>	The Dairy Council doesn't like it! Well, screw 'em!  
>
>>	Opinions?!?!
>
>Using the current PC language: its a *good thing* that these kind of
>reports finally surface! The dairy industry will probably sue these people
>for un-American activities or something like that.
>
>However, on the NPR program that I listened to, I thought that the
>reporter then said in the end that "children have to drink milk anyway"
>(I wasn't listening so attentatively). So, if it is the case that when
>a study recommends that children don't need much milk and then the
>reporter rounds up by saying that they need, I don't have much hope for
>any kind of change in people's diets. 
>
>Sirpa Saarinen
>saarinen@csrd.uiuc.edu

I saw Dr. Spock interviewed on a news program this morning. He said that
the new report recommends keeping infants on breast milk or formula
(with breast milk preferred) until the age of 1. After that its OK
to switch to cow's milk. Apparently, the previous recommendation was
to wait until 6 months to switch. It sounds like several of the media
have overstated the recommendations of the report.

--Amy 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg