HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pickerig@dns0.bham.ac.uk (Mr. G. Pickering)
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Subject: Re: SHAMEN
Date: 13 Oct 92 15:41:36 GMT
Organization: The University of Birmingham, England
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

I have been scratching my head over this one. On
Top of the Pops the singer said "Got any Veras - Vera Duckworths".
This narrows it down, but doesn't help much - sorry.

Guy

--
Guy Pickering
Electronic Eng, University of Birmingham, Edgbaston, Birmingham. ENGLAND
G.PICKERING@uk.ac.bham  or pickering@uk.ac.bham.eee
Xref: sparky alt.rave:3730 rec.music.funky:1503 alt.music.alternative:12275
From: okada@karen.pa.Yokogawa.CO.JP (Shingo Okada)
Newsgroups: alt.rave,rec.music.funky,alt.music.alternative
Subject: Re: Brothers in Rhythm
Date: 8 Oct 92 09:50:19 GMT
Followup-To: alt.rave
Distribution: alt
Organization: Yokogawa Electric Corporation, Tokyo, Japan.
In-reply-to: karty@cs.washington.edu's message of 8 Oct 92 06:33:29 JST

karty@cs.washington.edu (Richard Karty) writes:
 > 
 > Who are Brothers in Rhythm? What are their best records?
 > 

Brothers in Rhythm made a smash hit "Such A Good Feeling" last year.

I don't know their other songs.

--
	----------------------------------------------------------------
	        Shingo Okada      Yokogawa Electric Corporation
	         2-9-32 Nakacho, Musashino-shi, Tokyo, 180 JAPAN
	----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.rave
From: cep@sage.cc.purdue.edu (CRAIG PFEIFER)
Subject: Techno Compilations
Summary: [compilations] 
Keywords: compilations techno 
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Distribution: usa 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 14:11:44 GMT

   Does anyone know of several good techno compilation CD's? I checked out
a few in a record store, but I only knew 3-4 of the artists, and I wasn't 
willing to sink $30 into a double CD that I might end up hating. I asked 
the sales clerk and he said 'techno is really unreliable. the bands end
up changing their names so often you don't know who is who...'. I disagree
there, but besides 'Rave 'til Dawn', 'Only for the Headstrong', and the
'Kaos Theory' series, anyone have any suggestions?



-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\ |                             | "We are young despite the years,              |
|   cep@sage.cc.purdue.edu    |  We are concerned,                            |
|   Craig Pfeifer, Purdue U.  |  We are hope despite the times."  - R.E.M.    | \-----------------------------------------------------------------------------/ 
Newsgroups: alt.rave
From: disc@quads.uchicago.edu (Little Fluffy Cloud)
Subject: Re: U of Chicago
Reply-To: disc@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Something fatal.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 06:31:40 GMT

The DJ (I believe) is Jamie Hodge.  From what I've heard, his stuff is kinda 
old.  I was thinking about spinning there every so often myself, but the 
people at the station never called me and some guy from the station threw me
a lot of shade so I prolly won't do it.  It's cool that a station can have a
decent techno program, though.

For you northsiders, try 89.3 FM Thurs-Sat from like 9 or 10 on for a decent
techno/house/hip-hop mix that's generally fairly good but not incredibly
exceptional at any of the three.

If you want a good station on the hip hop tip, the WHPK 88.5FM rap program on
the South Side is the best in the city.

=Jerry Dischler=|Little Fluffy Cloud|=disc@quads.uchicago.edu=

From: kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:41:35 GMT
Subject: Re: Please Help
Organization: HP Western Response Center
Newsgroups: alt.rave

Oops! My apologies for posting my previous "Please Help" survey to this
group. It was an honest mistake and won't happen again.

Kingsley
From: dlaird@terapin.com (Delbert Laird)
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Subject: Re: Tangerine Dream
Date: 9 Oct 92 20:52:27 PST
Organization: BBS

In article <1992Oct9.203619.25387@sbcs.sunysb.edu>,
rojohnso@libws1.ic.sunysb.edu () writes:
>
>Hey guys...
>            I was just wondering if someone out there could just get into more
>detail about what Tangerine Dream's sound is like?  Is it leaning more towards
>new age music, or to dance music??  Im aware that there are different degrees
>of ambient music, so I was just curious...Also, has anyone heard 808 State's
>newest single?? Ive seen it in the store, but never heard it.
>
>                                                Peace,
>                                                 RJ
>                                                     

Depending on which CD/album you get....Most of Tangerine Dream plays out a
melodious tune to which (if on a psychedlic), carries you into an excellant
state of mind....I enjoy them, however, I LOVE more upbeat Ambient such as KLF
"LT2T".

As far as 808 State...Are you refering to "Time Bomb"?..Or another release?

dlaird@terapin.com
Newsgroups: alt.rave
From: pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Subject: Re: FORTRAN 5 BLUES
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 14:51:00 GMT

cs125b55@dcl-nxt26.cso.uiuc.edu (cs125 student) writes:

>Does anybody have Fortran 5's latest album, Blues?  If you do, can you
>tell me if it's good or not?  Your opinion of each song is appreciated.

From XDZebra 5:

Fortran 5: Blues
Mute: CD STUMM 79
1   3   04:43 Groove
2   4   05:09 Look to the Future
3   3   04:57 Two Curious Friends
4   1   03:32 Blues Pt. 1
5   5   05:01 XX21
6   4   05:01 Heart on the Line
7   4   05:51 Bike (Sid Sings Syd)
8   3   04:56 Love Baby
9   2   02:09 Blues Pt. 2
10  2   06:05 Inanga
11  3   04:54 Crazy Earth
12  3   05:49 Midnight Trip (Tubby Noise Mix)
13  2   06:06 Blues Pt. 3
14  4   04:06 Bike (Steve James Mix)

Comments: I FINALLY got it!  The Orb's Thrash delivers once again on this
wonderful disc.  It is absolutely amazing that Mute has brought out a couple
singles domestically, but is still dragging their feet on bring out this
album.  So I finally coughed up $21 to import it.  It was worth it.  Great
tunes galore.  From the beginning take-off on "Tequilla", "Groove", to the
majestic "Crazy Earth" to the raw 70's disco of "Look To The Future", to the
hardcore techno of "XX21".  Quite a variety for one band.  This would probably
make a great party disc, but fans of Thrash should hunt for this until they
drop.  If it ever comes out domestically, there's no excuse for not buying
this.  I've got to track down the accompanying novel "Fortran 5" now!

Summary: 9/10. Import price is the only drag.  Everything else is supreme.


(Since this is now domestic, the final comment is not important.  The domestic
release has very little difference from the import.)
-- 
		       "I'm Slash man, Slash!" - Slash

DISCLAIMER: My writings have NOTHING to do with my employer.  Keep it that way.
Pete Ashdown    pashdown@slack.sim.es.com    ...uunet!slack.sim.es.com!pashdown
From: cjm9321@hertz.njit.edu (The InfoMan)
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Subject: Re: Techno on NY radio stations?
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:48:37 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Oct6.153642.5490@cs.yale.edu> freeman-eric@CS.YALE.EDU (Eric Freeman) writes:
>If anyone knows of techno shows on NY radio stations please forward them
>to me.  I'll compile and post.  Or if there already is such a list please
>forward.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Eric
>freeman-eric@cs.yale.edu

	Well there is two I know of.

	97.1 WQHT  Does techno on Fridays from 12 till 2. And you can
catch some techno during Saturday nights.

	89.1 WNYU  Does some techno/house/rap/etc. M-R from 10:30-1
Friday night is reggie.

	Well that's all I could think of if anyone knows more let me
know.



-- 
M A D E   .   . .---. .---.    \  Buy U.S.A. products,  /    xxxxx ==========
  I N     |   |  \    |___|    <     It's YOUR job.     >    xxxxx ========== 
 T H E    |   |    \  |   |    <  Christopher J. Massa  >    ================
-------   `---' `---' '   `    / cjm9321@hertz.njit.edu \    ================
Newsgroups: alt.rave
From: pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Subject: Re: Gothic Techno & high BPM
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:34:22 GMT

dcook@spam.ua.oz (David Cook) writes:

>'gothic techno' - well, they're not techno, but I've heard that
>people still enjoy dancing to a couple of Sisters of Mercy tracks -
>This Corrosion (160 bpm !), and Temple of Love (180 bpm !!).

I rate the Zoth Ommog stuff among a cross between techno and gothic.
Especially the Technopolis stuff.

>I think I have a speed metal instrumental on a tape somewhere that's
>240 bpm, btw, which just proves that bpm is a silly way to rate techno.
>"Stupid" techno (eg "Sesame's Treat", etc) is stupid techno at any speed.
>On the other hand, the UR-style techno, and the other stuff I've heard
>on the radio, is really _good_, no matter what speed).
>(PLUG: In Adelaide, listen to MMM-FM, 93.7, Tuesday nights, 10-12)

Amen.  I'm really starting to hate the high bpm stuff anyway.  Give me a 60
bpm track with a bass explosion every second and I'm happy.

>(is anyone interested in an interview with Mike from UR ? It was on the
>radio here a couple of weeks ago).

Yes.
-- 
		       "I'm Slash man, Slash!" - Slash

DISCLAIMER: My writings have NOTHING to do with my employer.  Keep it that way.
Pete Ashdown    pashdown@slack.sim.es.com    ...uunet!slack.sim.es.com!pashdown
From: andym@dsbc.icl.co.uk (Andrew D Milligan)
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Subject: Re: sesame's treat
Date: 16 Oct 92 12:33:08 GMT
Organization: ICL Bracknell, UK

In article <gerSxre00iV346KXJb@andrew.cmu.edu> bb2j+@andrew.cmu.edu (Brian O. Bozarth) writes:
>>this whole "sesame's treat" thing is really bothering me.  it seems like it's
>>this new "fad" to hate that song.  now, while i'm not too fond of songs that
>>just use tv themes over a beat, i don't see why everyone has to be so proud
>>going around saying "oh that song sucks"... just 'cos adam x did.
>> 

Sesame's Treet and on TOTP last night, Tetris by Dr.Spin are prime examples
of the kind of music that is plaguing and trivialising a music style that
doesn't have to be shallow and so easily consumable. A lot of it comes from
the trouble radio had in keeping up with what became very popular chart
music. For a while occasional inventive records which did not work on
daytime radio were making the charts. Only by playing to death this shit (shit
that I could show anyone how to make in less than half an hour) radio in the
UK again has control. I only hope that by exploiting their new novelty
status The Shamen (who've been making excellent dance music for over 5 years)
can carry their new fan base into something deeper - their album and especially
the associated remixes I consider ground breaking. Check out the criminally
ignored Fini Tribe also.


>Stop preaching about commercialism and just enjoy the music please?
This is difficult when the successful music is so crass.

Phorward,
Andy D.M.
Newsgroups: alt.rave
From: cs125b55@dcl-nxt26.cso.uiuc.edu (cs125 student)
Subject: U of Chicago
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 02:34:47 GMT

Hey you U of C students!

Did you know that your school's WHPK 88.5 FM plays techno Fridays from
10pm to midnight?  If you know of any information about the DJs, current
playlists, or any other techno shows, inform me.  Thanks.

					Techno Houser
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 17:52:08 EDT
From: <SXL136@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Subject: Re: ACID SPECIAL
 <1992Oct8.141742.7167@csd.uwe.ac.uk> <1992Oct10.194558.20785@cs.tcd.ie>

        Couldn't agree with you more about LSD-25 & dancing: recently I went to
see a Grateful Dead tribute band, and I found it impossible to sit still: I
felt the music calling to my body...not that I endorse drug use or anything.
  :-) ;-) :-)

 P.S. Does anybody reading this netnews live in or near Allentown, PA? Have you
ever gone to one of the Friday night raves? Comments welcome.
Newsgroups: alt.rave
From: pwh@bradley.bradley.edu (Pete Hartman)
Subject: Re: Future Sound Of London: Accelerator
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 21:28:40 GMT


The CD cover clearly says "Central Industrial"
-- 
Pete Hartman		       Bradley University	pwh@bradley.bradley.edu
                           NO SMOKING.  NO SPITTING.
                                    THE MGT.
From: moorewd@wkuvx1.bitnet (Hallucin-8)
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Subject: Rave in Nashville
Date: 9 Oct 92 11:57:57 CDT
Organization: Korova WHQ

A few notes:
 
 Saturday October 24 - 10 pm
 
 soundshock presents "Purex"
 
 your fierce dj hosts
 rick phifer and graflin
 with special guest djs
 the mighty o'die from memphis
 chip b. and chek from nashville
 new larger location
 more thumpin bass for your face
 retina scorching light show
 8 hours of pure energy
 100% hardcore techno
 smart bar
 dumb bar
 vendor booths
 rave clothes and accessories
 huge chill-out room
 
 live performances by soundshock and fresh technojive artist anode
 
 $10 w/invite $12 without  info 901-763-8064 or 615-780-3730
 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 
 While I'm at it, BTW, I'd like to mention this "Lewi Cifer" EP I just
got, very good hardcore techno.  Try to find it!

-- 
 ,---------------------.                   ,---------------------------------.
| moorewd@wkuvx1.BITNET `-.   ,---------. | "...a rainbow inside your mind." |
| bleach@west.darkside.com | | Don Moore | `--------------. tel 615.370.0806 |
 `-------------------------'  `---------'                  `-----------------'
Newsgroups: alt.rave
From: watpod83@alfred.carleton.ca (Robert Telka)
Subject: Re: someone please clarify this...
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 18:19:49 GMT

In <1992Oct16.023913.6677@nmsu.edu> dpotosky@dewey.NMSU.Edu (David Potosky) writes:

>I was under the inpression that Rave also refered to the music that developed >from raves....I have heard blur, happy mondays, etc referred to as "rave"  
>music.....just my two pennies.


Happy Mondays rave??  I always thought their style of music was
regarded as to 'The Manchester' scene.


Robert Telka
Carleton University
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
From: mmk3@po.CWRU.Edu (Marla M. Kammer)
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Subject: The Prodigy Experience
Date: 9 Oct 1992 16:19:15 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


I just received a copy of the Prodigy's Experience CD.  It's really really
good if you like breakbeat.  New remixes of "Everybody in the Place" which wer't on the cd single.  Has "Fire," "Jericho", and a live track entitled,
"Death of the Prodigy Dancers."  Also, part 2 of "G-Force."  

It's much faster and harder than the first releases.  The Prodigy seem to 
have lost some of the melodic qualities in favour of harder breakbeat.  
I forgot to mention a new remix of "Charly."

Marla
-- 
Make it happy...
Newsgroups: alt.rave
From: lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble)
Subject: Re: someone please clarify this...
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 04:18:49 GMT
Organization: None for me, thanks . . . I'm driving.

dpotosky@dewey.NMSU.Edu (David Potosky) writes:

> I was under the inpression that Rave also refered to the music that
> developed from raves... 

It got used that way for awhile, but it's meaningless to use it that way
now since so many different kinds of music have been played at raves over
the past few years.  The first disc I ever heard with the word "rave" on
it was the Telstar compilation of the same name and there wasn't a single
track on there that even came close to techno.  (Blue Aeroplanes, World
Party, Stone Roses . . . ) 

--
Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.rave,rec.music.cd,rec.music.misc
From: rcj@engin.umich.edu (R o d Johnson)
Subject: Re: Has MC5 anything to do with The KLF?
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 92 14:51:05 EDT
Organization: Lost Tribes of Gazebo

In article <1992Oct6.184350.26085@ultb.isc.rit.edu> djd0873@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:

>	MC5 was an early punk rock band from Detroit, much along the same lines
>as Iggy & the Stooges.  Not exactly rave material, but great if you're into
>punk.

As an old-time 5 fan, I must protest (mildly).  The 5 predate punk by
six or seven years.  They're only "punk" in that they've been adopted
by punkers as a precursor; by this standard, James Brown is a rap
artist. 

Similarly, to say they're "much along the same lines" as the Stooges
is not quite right.  The Stooges and the 5 were actually rather
antithetical: the 5 were political, urban and into sex (lots of it);
the Stooges were alienated, suburban and "no fun".  Not that there
weren't points of contact--the bands were friends, in some sense, and
Ron Asheton went on to form a band with Dennis Thompson (Stooges
guitarist and 5 drummer respectively).  But the Stooges were like "the
kids" to the 5, and they went off in a pretty different direction.

Musically, the 5 looked back to 60s punk (a whole different thing),
blues and jazz, and especially the Yardbirds.  The Stooges, on the
other hand, couldn't really play all that stuff, so they had to make
it up themselves, in the true spirit of punk to come.  If they sound
like anyone, it's the Velvets.  So while these comparisons aren't
totally off the mark, they really oversimplify a complex thing.

-- 
       Rod Johnson  *  rcj@caen.engin.umich.edu  *  (313) 764-3103
    
                "What I do doesn't happen in a warehouse"
                                          --Jim Dickinson
From: kellyd@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (David Kelly)
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Subject: Re: Guerilla
Date: 16 Oct 92 13:52:50 GMT
Organization: Cybernet

archive@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:

> > Has anyone heard D.O.P.?  It's also on
> > Guerrilla and sounds promising.
> > 
> > 	Brian
> 
>   If you're interested in this then look out for a Guerilla compilation
> which was released in the UK ac ouple of months ago. It's called DUB
> HOUSE DISCO (in big letters on a yellow background)

The Oct 1-15 issue of DJ magazine comes with a free cassette promo from
Guerilla..  It is basically about a 30 minute mix of some of the Guerilla 
acts..  Here is the track listing :

Side 1
React II Rhythm - I Know You Like It (Fabi Paras Mix)
React II Rhythm - Intoxication (Rhythm Trance Mix)
React II Rhythm - Intoxication (Dubfield Mix)
Supereal - Body Medusa (Leftfield Mix)

Side 2
Supereal - Body Medusa (Leftfield Mix)
Drum Club - U Make Me Feel So Good (Deep N Hard Mix)
React II Rhythm - Whatever You Dream (Dark Mix)
Euphoria - Mercurial (Travelling at the Speed of Light Mix)
DOP - Groovy Beat (Rock-It Mix)

I especially like the Euphoria track..  I don't believe this is the same 
Euphoria of 'I Like Noise' though - a completely different act..


'What is your one purpose in life?'
                                                 'To explode of course.'
                      ___________________________
                      kellyd@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
Newsgroups: alt.rave
From: johnl@microware.com (John Lengeling)
Subject: Re: Raves in Iowa?
Organization: Microware Systems Corp., Des Moines, Iowa
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:32:45 GMT

In <jtamdor.718831478@vincent2.iastate.edu> jtamdor@iastate.edu (Jason T Amdor) writes:

>Are there any raves in Iowa?  Its really not possible for me to get to
>Chicago
>but could to Des Moines or Omaha or Minneapolis, MN....Anybody have any
>ideas?
>.

There were two raves earlier this spring in Des Moines.  I wasn't able to 
go, but I would check people at Hairy Mary's and see if they put them on.

johnl

-- 
"Meet every situation head on"  -- M.E.S.H.
johnl@microware.com
uunet!mcrware!johnl
From: pickerig@dns0.bham.ac.uk (Mr. G. Pickering)
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Subject: Re: different SHAMEN
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:21:37 GMT
Organization: The University of Birmingham, England
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Does anybody know where I can get this new Shamen EP in Birmingham, there
are loads of record shops, but if I could get a name (preferably in town
if poss) it would save time.

Thanks,

Guy.

--
Guy Pickering
Electronic Eng, University of Birmingham, Edgbaston, Birmingham. ENGLAND
G.PICKERING@uk.ac.bham  or pickering@uk.ac.bham.eee
From: b102smi@utarlg.uta.edu (George M. Smiley)
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Subject: Re: 808 State's new single
Date: 14 Oct 92 23:57:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

ctuel@zeus.calpoly.edu (Cliff Tuel) writes...
>b102smi@utarlg.uta.edu (George M. Smiley) said...
>|Anways, the 808 State album is called _Gorgeous_ and it should be out
>|this upcoming Tuesday, the 13th.
> 
>It's been pushed back to Nov. 3.
> 
>-- 
>Cliff Tuel                

Yeah, another case of trying to hype up a bad product by giving out
phony release dates. Record companies increasingly disgust me.

George
Newsgroups: alt.rave
From: disc@quads.uchicago.edu (Little Fluffy Cloud)
Subject: Re: Chicago Rave Scene/Milw Rave
Reply-To: disc@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Something fatal.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 02:44:34 GMT

Oh, come on.  Do not EVEN try to second-guess me.

South-Siders=Far south side (often hispanic) gang members or snotty writers
             who get into fights and generally manage to mess things up.  
             The vibe is all attitude and no unity.  It's counterproductive.
             
Guidos=Those who have hair too long in the back and wear sports jackets and
       stand, arms crossed, in the corner, looking skeptically at all.  Those
       toys who listen to Vanilla Ice and Kriss Kross who like raves because
       it's a place their parents won't catch them for smoking pot.

Gang-Bangers=THOSE IN GANGS.  This is something I am totally against.

I am totally with the rave scene, with the hip-hop nation and I am serious on
the equality tip.  Don't translate what I say.  Acknowledge it for what it is
and move on.

=Jerry Dischler=|Little Fluffy Cloud|=disc@quads.uchicago.edu=
From: dmarsh@cs.strath.ac.uk (David R Marsh CS91)
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Subject: Re: SHAMEN
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:58:07 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. Dept., Strathclyde Univ., Glasgow, Scotland.

In article <1992Oct13.193331.593@dct.ac.uk> mcsbc3ktp@dct.ac.uk (Kirk Potter) writes:
>In article <1992Oct13.124106.4406@cs.hw.ac.uk>, censwm@cend3c7.caledonia.hw.ac.uk (Stuart W Munn) writes:
>> The current UK No1 is Ebenezer Goode by the SHAMEN. It has the following line in it :
>> 
>
>It makes as much sense as "got any salmon? Sorted!"....or as Mr C said on
>

One of my friends (don't flame me) says it's short for
"Salmon Jack" = crack.

On a related topic, I'm *sure* that on TotP (when they performed the really
weird remix) Mr C said "Naughty, naughty" in such a way that it sounded like
"Not E, not E". So there you go, it really is an anti-drugs song etc etc snzzz.

:-)


Dave.--dmarsh@cs.strath.ac.uk  or  cad129@ccsun.strath.ac.uk {or sthg similar!}-

If you did something which carried a high risk of your own death, a high risk 
of killing other people, which adversely affected the environment, which cost
you a lot of money, and was highly taxed, you'd stop wouldn't you?

Driving: it's time to kick the habit. "Training beats coaching" (C) ScotRail 
Newsgroups: alt.rave,rec.music.funky