HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jagdish@igc.apc.org (Jagdish Parikh)
Newsgroups: alt.native
Subject: Request: Send your greetings
Date: 26 Jan 93 04:06:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1308200104:000:1667
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!jagdish    Jan 25 20:06:00 1993


From: Jagdish Parikh <jagdish>
Subject: Request: Send your greetings 

Dear Friends, A new conference : mnl.meet is now available on IGC,
GreenNet etc.. This conference is an experiment to provide live
exchange of ideas with the first Asian Indigenous Women's
Conference being held at Baguio city - Philippines (Jan 24-Jan
30).

 "BAGUIO CITY -- Indigenous women from 19 countries are converging
here for the "First Asian Indigenous Women's Conference" to be
held January 24-30.

     The Conference is the first to be held for Asia's 150 million
indigenous population.   It  opens venues for women's voices to be
heard during the  UN- proclaimed  International Year  for  the
World's  Indigenous Peoples,  said Victoria Corpuz.  Corpuz heads
the non-government Cordillera Women's Education and Resource
Center (CWERC), main host of the conference."

Organisers have agreed to post daily reports, resolutions etc from
this conference for others interested in these issues to
participate remote (by posting on this conference). All the
postings on mnl.meet will be networked daily to Baguio city
conference place (with the help of GreenNet and Email Centre
Manila).

In addition to provide an opportunity to participate remotely we
also intend to experiment with using low cost methods to provide
connectivity with events taking place in third world countries.

We invite you to visit mnl.meet and request you to send your
greeting messages to conference participants (most of them will
first time experience use of electronic networking for
International solidarity).Thanking you for your support and
interest, Jagdish Parikh (International Liaison - Interdoc-AsPac)
Newsgroups: alt.native
From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu
Subject: Native Lingo Keyboards
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 13:14:06 GMT

Question does anyone know of a keyboard SYS file for DOS 5.0 for Eskimo (any
types) Athabascan, Aleut, Tlingit/Haida? Reasons to try to teach children here
in Nome, Alaska to type in their "native" lingo.. Namely Inupiaq (eskimo)..
But Also Siberian Yupik...

Quyanna for your time..


Michael Adams
Alias: Morgoth/Ghost Wheel 
nsmca@acad2.alaska.edu
Just another crazy Gusik.


Newsgroups: alt.native,news.groups,soc.culture.misc
From: slucas@grant.ncd.com (Steve Lucas)
Newsgroups: alt.native
Subject: Re: Question of Nativity
Date: 21 Jan 93 14:37:17 GMT
Organization: Network Computing Devices, Mt. View, CA, USA

In article <14JAN199322103452@rosie.uh.edu>, lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
|> In article <9301141941.AA09601@hsuseq.humboldt.edu>, hsuseq.humboldt.edu!villa (Liz Villarreal) writes...
|> >Original Sender: hsuseq.humboldt.edu!villa (Liz Villarreal)
|> >Mailing List:    NATCHAT (nn.chat@gnosys.svle.ma.us)
|> > 
|> >RE:  Melissa Bamba's astute comments on the Ryans "Nativity Letter".
|> > 
|> >     We were forced, by Congressional plenary power, to become citizens
|> >in 1924, and it was not until the Mineral Leasing Act of 1982 that
|> >Indians could re-negotiate lease agreements selecting their own attorneys.
|> >     Confusion over names is not reason enough for us to accept the name
|> >(American) of those who would vanquish us.  It is time to stop pretending
|> >that we are something we are not and rid ourselves of this defeatist
|> >dogma.  It is time to be proud of who we are.  It is time to reclaim our
|> >heritage.  For me, I am Choctaw and I never will be American.
|> >     Malcom X had another great saying: (and I paraphrase)
|> >       It's about time the chickens come home to roost.
|> > 
|> >Glen Goodwin
|> >Graduate Student
|> >Humboldt State University
|> >villa@hsuseq.humboldt.edu
|> >  
|> My ancestors were Scottish (along with some others).
|> Should I then call myself a Scot when in Scotland?
|> Quite frankly It doesn't matter what you call yourself to others, its what
|> you feel in your heart and the dignity that you present to others that matters.
|> Without that .... what's a name going to do ?
|> 
|> Tammy

I agree that what is in your heart is all that matters.  As for being called
Americans, ALL who live in north/south american contenents are Americans as 
they are from/live in this land.  With this in mind, what you call yourself
is what your heart & blood lines call you.  I call myself a native american
simply because my heart and part of my blood lines are that.  I'm proud of
it and would NEVER change the way I see myself.  As for how others see my
mixed blood, who gives a sh*t.  It's what I feel/know that matters.  Be
proud of who you are.  Just because a white man's great great grandfather
killed natives does not mean he will.  It is in his nature to not repeat
the errors of his past or be condemed if he does.

just my thoughts,

Steve Lucas

slucas@grant.ncd.com
all disclaimers apply.
Newsgroups: alt.native,news.groups,soc.culture.misc
From: speights@iear.arts.rpi.edu (Arlen Speights)
Subject: Re: Comments on the 2nd RFD: soc.culture.native
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 21:29:31 GMT

gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us (Gary S. Trujillo) writes:

>....  I wanted to consult with Preston Hardison, who supplied the text
>which contained the definition used internationally which a few of us
>thought might be adapted for our present purposes.

>+ The UN working definitions come out of a statist institution, and reflect
>+ the perspectives of national governments. Mike is worried about the
>+ passage 'and under a State structure . . .". From a state perspective,
>+ this is really the case. Even "uncolonized" or uncontacted peoples are
>+ effectively under state control, with rights that exist only as the states
>+ grant them....

>+ This still leaves the problem of a positive definition of indigenous
>+ peoples. Mike is worried about defining people solely by their relation-
>+ ship to a history of colonialism....

>Is there a fundamental objection to even mentioning the fact of colonization,
>in light of what Preston has offered?

I think that it would be good to balance the terms that are "statist"
with terms that form a more positive definition if indigenous peoples.
If colonization is appropriate for the charter then I think that it's
equally important to include the sort of identity that Mike pointed out.

Here's an idea:

CHARTER: Soc.culture.native is for the discussion  of  issues  relating  to
native populations throughout the world.  For the purposes of defining this
newsgroup, "native" is considered roughly synonymous with  "aboriginal"  or
"indigenous."  All of these terms designate the existing descendents of the
peoples who inhabited the present territory of a country at the  time  when
persons  of  a different culture or ethnic origin colonized that territory,

and who today identify themselves more in conformity with the
particular social, economic and cultural customs and traditions 
that connect them with their aboriginal relationship to the land than
with the institutions of the country of which that territory now
forms a part.                                 ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^

It's just getting longer and longer :-)
Is a terminologically specific charter going to help the chances
of soc.culture.native becoming a reality?  Does it look good for
us to haggle about like this?  If not, then the original charter
is OK by me.

Arlen
-- 
:-(-:-(-:-(-:-( speights@iear.arts.rpi.edu )-:-)-:-)-:-)-:
"Even now, we scarcely feel our hearts beat before they break in protest"
                                                         -Stanley Diamond
                                                                       --
From: baylor@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Baylor)
Newsgroups: alt.native
Subject: Polyenesia (was Re: Question of Nativity)
Date: 22 Jan 1993 22:30:41 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.cc.utexas.edu

>The theory, as I recall, states that people migrated from Asia to Polenesia
>and then to the Americas. (Hey, this sort of discussion is  alot more fun
>than the other one. :)
> 
	I agree.
	Mom was an archeologist, but i think i ignored her too long
to remember much.
	I had thought that the polynesians went out and settled 
everything else. The thai were pushed to thailand from south china,
and the Thai are polynesian, not asian.
	Then again, all the earliest archeological stuff was found
in northern thailand, earlier than in africa (it was discovered again
by US bombers who thought they were hidden viet cong bases and blew
the hell outa half of them).

						- baylor

Newsgroups: alt.native
From: ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu!V187EF4Y
Subject: Re: Comments on the 2nd RFD: soc.culture.native
Organization: University at Buffalo
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:45:15 GMT

Original Sender: ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu!V187EF4Y

On the discussion of pulling traffic from other newsgroups, I'd have to say
it's a nonissue.  I read a fair (~5) number of these groups regularly, and
there's a common practice of cross-posting when the thread is of interest to
two or more groups.  I often see items cross-posted to sci.anthropology,
sci.archaeology, and sco.culture.* for what ever area is being discussed.
That's my comment.
-Pat Crowe


Newsgroups: alt.native,news.groups,soc.culture.misc
From: speights@iear.arts.rpi.edu (Arlen Speights)
Subject: Re: soc.culture.native newsgroup charter
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 03:17:06 GMT

gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us (Gary S. Trujillo) writes:

>The following article was just relayed to alt.native, but missed the
>news.groups and soc.culture.misc groups, so I'm reposting it here to
>make sure that this important piece of scholarly perspective can enter
>into our discussions leading up to the final resolution of the wording

I think the article is particularly useful to our charter, but in the
interest of keeping the charter under a gigabyte, we'd have to be
slective about paraphrasing:

>                              the existing descendents of the
>peoples who inhabited the present territory of a country 
>at the time when persons of a different culture or ethnic origin
>colonized that country, and
>Who today live more in conformity with their particular social, economic
>and cultural customs and traditions than with the institutions of the
>country of which they now form a part.

That last paragraph might be a bit exclusive, but I think it brings
out a few important ideas as well.
Here's the working draft of the part of the charter that I think could
benefit from the above lines:

newsgroup, "native" is considered roughly synonymous with "aboriginal" or
"indigenous" -- all terms which underscore a population's having been the
first to inhabit a particular region.  This newsgroup is intended to be

I think it would be better like this:

..."native is considered roughly synonymous with "aboriginal" or
"indigenous" -- all terms that designate the existing descendents
of the peoples who inhabited the present territory of a country
at the time when persons of a different culture or ethnic origin
colonized that country, and who today live more in conformity with 
their particular social, economic and cultural customs and traditions 
than with the institutions of the country of which they now form a part..."


I think this would sufficiently narrow the focus of the group to
reduce Unnescessary redundancy, while certainly leaving overlap
where it's pertinent to both groups, such as the s.c.wherever groups.
IMHO, of course.  It also resolves some vagueness that I feel is
contained in the "first to inhabit a region;" indigenous peoples
often have and do migrate in some cases, it's the contact with the
Different culture that creates most of the issues we've seen on 
alt.native and NativeNet.

Thoughts?

Arlen
-- 
:-(-:-(-:-(-:-( speights@iear.arts.rpi.edu )-:-)-:-)-:-)-:
"Even now, we scarcely feel our hearts beat before they break in protest"
                                                         -Stanley Diamond
                                                                       --
Newsgroups: alt.native,news.groups,soc.culture.misc
From: emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire)
Subject: Re: Comments on the 2nd RFD: soc.culture.native
Organization: Intellection, Inc.
	<idoy.727895586@crux1.cit.cornell.edu>
	<1993Jan26.191152.10221@gnosys.svle.ma.us> <78p3+z#@rpi.edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:08:56 GMT

In article <78p3+z#@rpi.edu> speights@iear.arts.rpi.edu (Arlen Speights) writes:

   Is a terminologically specific charter going to help the chances of
   soc.culture.native becoming a reality?  Does it look good for us to
   haggle about like this?  If not, then the original charter is OK by
   me.

Another point.  No matter how carefully the words presented in the
charter are thought out, they will only very approximately govern the
actual content of the new group (assuming it is created).  The
one-line charter from the newsgroups file is as likely to be important
for defining what really goes on in the group.  Much more important
than either of those is the feedback given to posters by seasoned
members of the group.  Something to consider is including the charter
in a Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) article posted regularly to the
group.
-- 
Ed McGuire                   1603 LBJ Freeway, Suite 780
Systems Administrator/       Dallas, Texas 75234
 Member of Technical Staff   214/620-2100, FAX 214/484-8110
Intellection, Inc.           <ed@intellection.com>

Raise Usenet quality.  Read news.announce.newgroups and vote.
Newsgroups: alt.native,news.groups,soc.culture.misc
From: gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us (Gary S. Trujillo)
Subject: Re: Comments on the 2nd RFD: soc.culture.native
Keywords: soc.culture.native
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:22:29 GMT

In <idoy.727588118@crux1.cit.cornell.edu> idoy@crux1.cit.cornell.edu
	(Mike Wilson) writes:

> ksdavis@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Karleen S. Davis) writes:

>> Add a clause to the charter stating that soc.culture.native is for all
>> native peoples as described UNLESS there is another more specific
>> newsgroup for a certain people...

> Thank you once again for the voice of reason.  I think this is
> an excellent way to deal with Brian's important question of
> redundancy.  

The following article, forwarded from Patrick Crowe speaks to this issue:

| From: v187ef4y@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
| Date: 21 Jan 1993 10:45:15 -0500 (EST)
| Subject: Re: Comments on the 2nd RFD: soc.culture.native
| Message-Id: <01GTS08SZHW88ZE5OD@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>
| Organization: University at Buffalo
|
| On the discussion of pulling traffic from other newsgroups, I'd have to say
| it's a nonissue.  I read a fair (~5) number of these groups regularly, and
| there's a common practice of cross-posting when the thread is of interest to
| two or more groups.  I often see items cross-posted to sci.anthropology,
| sci.archaeology, and sco.culture.* for what ever area is being discussed.
| That's my comment.
|
| -Pat Crowe

I agree, and feel that there should be nothing in the charter which in-
dicates that discussion or exchange of information about the indigenous
peoples of any part of the world should be excluded from soc.culture.native
based on the fact of there being a newsgroup already established to talk
about more general topics relating to that geographical region.  There
would be much, for example, in soc.culture.asia which would most decidedly
*not* be appropriate for soc.culture.native (most of the discussion that
takes place in that newsgroup, in fact), but some articles could quite
legitimately be cross-posted.  For example, I have recently cross-posted
an article on the Sami people between alt.native and soc.culture.nordic,
and would feel that such an article would also be proper to cross-post
between soc.culture.native and soc.culture.nordic.

So if there is any text which talks about existing "soc.culture.*" news-
groups, I feel it should be very carefully worded so as not to give an
impression that there is an attempt being made to exclude articles per-
taining to the parts of the world they cover based merely on the fact
of their existence.

Gary
--
    Gary S. Trujillo                            gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us
Somerville, Massachusetts              {wjh12,bu.edu,spdcc,ima,cdp}!gnosys!gst
From: unponl@antenna.nl
Newsgroups: alt.native
Subject: Re: NEW PROPOSAL FOR PEACE, UNITY A
Date: 24 Jan 93 00:24:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:kZZuXB9w165w@antenna.nl:1778918011:000:1348
Nf-From: antenna.nl!unponl    Jan 23 16:24:00 1993


Subject: Re: NEW PROPOSAL FOR PEACE, UNITY AND DEMOCRACY IN BURMA
From: unponl@antenna.nl (Michael v.Walt v.Praag)

Subject: NEW PROPOSAL FOR PEACE, UNITY AND DEMOCRACY IN BURMA
From: unponl@antenna.nl (Michael v.Walt v.Praag)
Comments: UNPO Secretariate
Newsgroups: unpo.news
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 23:19:06 GMT
Organization: Antenna Host in the Netherlands (+31 80 604661)

UNPO 3RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY DAILY PRESS RELEASE
 
SATURDAY 23 JANUARY - DAY 5
 
*NEW PROPOSAL FOR PEACE, UNITY AND DEMOCRACY IN BURMA*
 
MR PETER LIMBIN, THE MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF THE NATIONAL
COALITION GOVERNMENT OF THE UNION OF BURMA (NCGUB), PRESENTED A
NEW PROPOSAL IN AN EFFORT TO END CIVIL WAR IN BURMA AT THE THIRD
GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE UNREPRESENTED NATIONS AND PEOPLES
ORGANIZATION (UNPO) IN THE HAGUE.
 
"THE NCGUB IS WORKING HARD TO INCREASE THE ETHNIC BASIS OF THE
UNITED BURMESE OPPOSITION AND TO SECURE A PEACEFUL, UNITED AND
DEMOCRATIC BURMA THAT WILL INCLUDE ALL THE ETHNIC GROUPS ON A
FEDERAL BASIS", SAID MR LIMBIN. 
 
THE NCGUB WILL ORGANIZE A CONVENTION ON THE FUTURE OF BURMA, ON
MAY 27TH 1993, THE 3RD ANNIVERSARY OF THE 1990 ELECTIONS, MR
LIMBIN ANNOUNCED.
 
MR LIMBIN ALSO PLEADED FOR THE IMPLEMENTATION OF ECONOMIC
SANCTIONS AGAINST THE MILITARY REGIME OF BURMA; TO CONSIDER A
MILITARY EMBARGO AND THE WITHDRAWAL OF DIPLOMATIC RECOGNITION.
From: unponl@antenna.nl
Newsgroups: alt.native
Date: 21 Jan 93 00:41 PST
Subject: Re: UNPO conference news on-line
Nf-ID: #N:cRePXB2w165w@antenna.nl:-308389030:000:1497
Nf-From: antenna.nl!unponl    Jan 21 00:41:00 1993


Subject: Re: UNPO conference news on-line
From: unponl@antenna.nl (Michael v.Walt v.Praag)

Subject: UNPO conference news on-line
From: unponl@antenna.nl
Summary: UNPO conference in the Netherlands
Date: 20-Jan-1993
Newsgroups: unpo.news
Organisation: Antenna Host in the Netherlands

This is a short message to announce the availability of news
from the UNPO conference on-line in most networks.

The UNPO Conference is being held from 18-24 january 1993 
in The Hague in The Netherlands.

UNPO stands for Unrepresented Nations and Peoples Organization
a world wide organization providing a platform for those yet
unrepresented in the U.N.

The UNPO Secretariate:   40a Javastraat      Postbox 85878 
                         2585 AP The Hague   2508 CN The Hague
                         The Netherlands     The Netherlands   

Telephone: +31 70 360 3318
Telefax  : +31 70 360 3346
E-mail   : unponl@antenna.nl
Contact  : Dr. Mr. Michael van Walt van Praag (Secretary General)

There is a UNPO office in the USA: unposf@igc.org (Julie Berriault)

The News feed comes directly from the press office of the UNPO
conference and will daily be sent to news groups world wide
from the Antenna Host in the Netherlands.

Copies of the messages will be posted on:

- on APC in the conference   : unpo.news
- on Geonet in the BBS       : GEO2:TRIBAL-SURVIVAL
- on Usenet in the news group: alt.native
- on Antenna as news group   : unpo.news 

Contributions or greetings to the meeting: unponl@antenna.nl

Newsgroups: alt.native,news.groups,soc.culture.misc
From: ksdavis@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Karleen S. Davis)
Subject: Re: Comments on the 2nd RFD: soc.culture.native
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:33:32 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.043847.27553@gnosys.svle.ma.us> gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us 
   (Gary S. Trujillo) writes: 
>In <C16HLL.JL3@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> ksdavis@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
>	(Karleen S. Davis) writes:
>
>> Add a clause to the charter stating that soc.culture.native is for all
>> native peoples as described UNLESS there is another more specific
>> newsgroup for a certain people, and then go on to mention an example
>> like soc.culture.african...
>
>This proposed solution sounds as if it might be able to deal with Brian's
>objections.  However, I feel that certain issues which pertain even to
>regions like Asia and Africa would be appropriate for soc.culture.native...

Point taken.  I can imagine that there will be things that could be
considered "native issues" that would be of interest to the worldwide
soc.culture.native audience, but that there would also be issues that
should remain in the "home" newsgroup.  We need a succinct expression
of this idea.

>...  However, I would not consider it appropriate to bring up subjects
>of politics or general culture concerning any region unless it relates
>specifically to the lives and cultures of the original inhabitants of
>the place, and I think that feature of an article should be the deciding
>factor in deciding whether or not it is appropriate for the newsgroup.

This is well considered.  Perhaps this very sentence could be reworded
to express the idea we're trying to clarify in the charter -- that
soc.culture.native is not intended to draw discussions away from other
newsgroups.  The redundancy issue is important, and we need to solicit
suggestions for the best phrasing.  I personally don't feel up to the
task.  Anyone have any more ideas?

-sz
Xref: sparky alt.non.sequitur:990 alt.slack:3880 rec.pets.cats:16625
From: jce3053@zeus.tamu.edu (Joe "Spam" Engledow)
Newsgroups: alt.non.sequitur,alt.slack,rec.pets.cats
Subject: Re: Help me name my cat
Date: 23 Jan 1993 17:21 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: zeus.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

>Chris Herborth
>cherborth@semprini.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca
           ^^^^^^^^

GET OUT!!!!!!
We'll not have such filth here!

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Joe Engledow             |   Texas A&M University,   |  SubGenius Oracle of
JCE3053@rigel.tamu.edu   |    College Station, TX    |  All College Station
You think TAMU would want ME to express their opinions?
"Gad -- I'm SUCH a genius!"      --Wile E. Coyote
Newsgroups: alt.non.sequitur,talk.bizarre,alt.prose,rec.arts.poems
From: mdw@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Re: Scintillating Locrian Update: Nonsequitur Karma
Organization: Jim's Burger Hut and Ferengi Tavern, Deep Space Nine
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 03:19:01 GMT

In article <16B5CFFF6.SENDIAA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu> SENDIAA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu writes:
>Counting genres on our toes, we arrive at ten: 3 poems, 1 ode, 1 molecule, 1
>corrigenda, 1 advice column, several cascades, 1 bio, 1 contest result, 1
>interview, 1 dialogue (consisting of 13 postings), 15 prose pieces, and an
>ever-growing mailing list.

You almost forgot:

1 dozen eggs
Half a gallon of milk

DIRECTIONS
Mix in a large bowl until all of the lumps are out.
Spead on a cookie sheet, bake at 400 F until golden brown.

mdw

-- 
Matt Welsh     mdw@tc.cornell.edu     Cornell Theory Center
  "Donuts. Is there anything they can't do?" 
Xref: sparky alt.non.sequitur:959 talk.bizarre:45823