HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: foucault@netcom.com (Howard Arthur Faye)
Subject: Re: Phone or Fax No. for Roseanne Production Co
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:01:22 GMT

In article <memo.816351@cix.compulink.co.uk> dbailey@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>
>Can anyone help me with a phone or fax number, or a company name
>for directory enquiries, for the company that actually produces
>Roseanne?
>
For all those interested in contacting the show's producers, the
information is as follows:

Carsey-Werner Productions
4024 Radford Avenue
Studio City, CA   916049160491604916049160491604916049160491604

(818) 760-5598



-- 
Howard Arthur Faye * Panglossian Acres * Box 7 * Littlerock, CA   93543

"But Marielle liked the _baba_. It was, she said, 'comme il faut'."
From: kc2@doc.ic.ac.uk (K Campbell)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Cramer spoiling the party
Followup-To: soc.motss
Date: 15 Dec 1992 19:13:31 -0000
Organization: Department of Computing, Imperial College, University of London, UK.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: oak23.doc.ic.ac.uk


It's probably not the best idea to do this openly, but Clayton
Cramer seems to waste so much bandwidth letting us know the
extent of his bigotry, I thought, wouldn't he eventually give
up and go away if we took it upon ourselves NOT to reply to
his narrow-minded drivellous spoutings?

I really have no idea what motivates him, but I would like to
think that a blanket of silence on our part would take away
some of that motivation.  This would involve e-mailing new
soc.motssers when we spotted them, in case they were lured into
arguing with him.  Has it been tried before?  (spot the 
relative newcomer)


        ################################################################
        ##  Kenny Campbell         ______     If at first you don't   ##
        ##  Imperial College       \    /     succeed, failure might  ##
        ##  London                  \  /      be your style.          ##
        ##  kc2@doc.ic.ac.uk         \/                 Quentin Crisp ##
        ################################################################

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson)
Subject: Re: A reply to Mr. Pierce (was Re: PHOBE ALERT: That XX Louis Sheldon...)
Originator: glp@merlin
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:03:14 GMT


In article <1992Dec16.192722.24591@psych.toronto.edu>, paul@psych.toronto.edu (Paul Hastings) writes:
|> >In article <1992Dec16.002944.2699@panix.com> mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:
|> >>Steve Dyer goes on to say:
|> >> >It's not that *I'm* offended, but that there are people who will be.
|> >>
|> >>Well, I don't offend all that easily.  But when someone uses 
|> >>"limp wristed" in my presence as a synonym for weak, I _am_
|> >>offended.
|>            <<and more, and thank you>>
|> 
|> While we're on the topic of offensensitivity (to steal from B. Breathed), I
|> would like to know how the women (and the men too, but primarily the women)
|> feel about the drag-queen subculture of the gay male scene. 

::runs screaming from the room::

|> Makes me think that the reactions to drag queens are as diverse as the
|> reactions to anything else that may be considered offensive, but I'd
|> still like to know what the motss-gang thinks of this.

::peeking back in::

Two of the strongest reactions I remember from a discussion
about this a while back are that some women feel like they're 
being made fun of, and some men feel like it's not making fun
but rebelling against oppressive teaching of what's male and
female appropriate.  

And as I remember, they were *strong* feelings.

Perhaps this dicussion should be moved to soc.motss.nice.

-- 
Greg Parkinson                  Phone: 212-657-7814  Fax: 212-825-8607
Citibank,111 Wall Street        E-Mail: glp@fig.citib.com
New York, New York  10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
Xref: sparky soc.motss:52398 alt.politics.homosexuality:7987
From: kkenny@gems.vcu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Call/Fax/Write Fernandez
Date: 15 Dec 92 09:10:31 -0400
Organization: Medical College of Virginia

In article <1gdl85INN1qe@hp-col.col.hp.com>, smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:
> Do we need to teach "daddy
> and his roommate sleep together" to teach tolerance? 

To first graders, "sleep together" does not invoke the same
images that that phrase does to _you_, a sexually aware peson.
What makes you think that telling first graders that two adults
care for one another means that they will come away with visions
of sexual acts?  

As you continue to make your point, to me it is clear that
you are aware of your own tolerance limitations.  You embrace a
"all people/families/family situations are valuable" doctrine, but
then balk when that doctrine ceases to be doctrine and becomes
reality, included in the school curriculum.

Karen
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: NOTICE - Details of the March on Washington
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:07:03 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.125746.17847@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
>If you are not comfortable with the march then I suggest that (i) you do
>not go, and (ii) you do not complain about it being misguided etc.

I disagree.  A lot.

While I don't think that calling the march "misguided" is
particularly constructive, I do think that great good can
come from trying to understand these issues and what it is
about them that some people find particularly bothersome.
Coalition-building means working with people and ideas that
we may not like at all, trying to achieve some shared
goal.  And sometimes the process of defining that goal in
the face of conflicting interests can help define the
process of reaching that goal.  "Take you toys and go away"
may be a reasonable way to play on Usenet, but it's a
terrible way to do political work.
--
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara)
Subject: Re: Ken Reeves, first black, openly gay mayor in the US
Date: 12 Dec 92 09:16:12 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Dec11.203651.6088@leland.Stanford.EDU> prufrock@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scot N Gibson) writes:
>
>The article mentions that Reeves is one of three openly gay mayors in
>the country.  Anyone know who the other two are?
>

      Larry and Moe?
      Harpo and Chico?
      Manny and Jack?

     Just guessing...

					-Phil

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Lafornara         				1 Microsoft Way         
philipla@microsoft.com				Redmond, WA 98052-6399 
Note:  Microsoft doesn't even _know_ that these are my opinions. So there.
From: kkenny@gems.vcu.edu (Karen Kenny aka Mel)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: <None>
Date: 16 Dec 92 08:07:51 -0400
Organization: Medical College of Virginia

In article <CARLTON.92Dec11161227@scws2.harvard.edu>, carlton@scws2.harvard.edu (david carlton) writes:
> When it's cold out, I try not to wash my hair on mornings that I have
> early classes.  This won't work for people with early classes every
> day, though.  Sometimes I just wash it after I get back from class,
> too.
> 
-- 

Lesbian perks abound lately!  All this talk about keeping
mustaches, beards, and long hair washed and groomed with
trimmers, wax, mousse, 1-1 1/2 hour waiting periods, etc
just screams why it's a must for me to maintain a
*LOW* *MAINTENANCE* *HAIRCUT*!!

All that maintenance in the morning just cuts into my
morning sleep time, an absolutely unacceptable occurrance.
<sigh>  Too bad no morning sex is getting me up early...

Karen

+======================================================+
                                         Karen S. Kenny
"Of course, you silly things!"      kkenny@gems.vcu.edu
                                  Medical College of VA                      
                                           Richmond, VA
+======================================================+
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: Re: soc.motss.*
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 12:39:24 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) suggests:
 >soc.motss.salmon
 >soc.motss.mauve
 >soc.motss.dusty.rose
 >soc.motss.vermillion
 >or something like that. Red, orange, blue, and green are for crayons.

Amen.  And I notice that neither JNS nor thaaang (did I count
right?) suggested lavender.  My thesaurus offers:
purple, lavender, lilac, violet, magenta, mulberry, puce,
mauve,hyacinthine, amethistine, soferino, plum, raisin
(among others).

What's solferino? 

In fairness to John, I should mention that his "suggestion" was of
the rather grudging "Why bother?  But if you do..." variety.


-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: My *sigh* ad in the Washington Blade
Date: 15 Dec 92 03:29:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec15.032938.28216
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Dec14.221628.26449@wam.umd.edu> lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat) writes:
>But, Father Amelia and Mama Jojo, *puts his head down in shame*  
>I have no leather garments ...

Pretend you're shopping for some...

Seriously, you don't need to wear leather to enter most "leather bars",
and the Eagle certainly attracts leather men and naugahyde types alike.
Try it and report back!

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: The MOW Platform (was Re: NOTICE - Details...)
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 01:58:36 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.180815.10249@gordian.com> mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:

>My point is
>that the MOW is a gay event and trying to make it into an
>all encompassing "indentity politics" is rather exclusionary
>since it implies that there is some sort of consensus on what
>those politics might be. There is not. 

So what is a "gay event," other than a convenient hook on which to
hang the March?  Is it an event held in support of anti-discrimination
laws with respect to sexual orientation?  Naw, there's no consensus on
that issue.  Is it one held for the sake of gay adoption?  Same here.
Is it held to promote a positive self-image for queers?  Lesbian sex
clubs?  Flawless aging drag queens?

I think that if we're going to maintain the slogan "gay rights are
human rights," we'd goddamn well live up to it.  Racists, sexists, and
people who wear stripes with plaid need not apply.

>A little
>consideration and focus would have gone a long way to including
>all members of the gay community.

How many times have you clicked your heels?

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Xref: sparky soc.motss:52197 soc.bi:16501
From: hopkins@cs.cmu.edu (Don Hopkins)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: The MOW Platform (was Re: NOTICE - Details...)
Date: 14 Dec 92 08:16:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.Bz8pn4.Ew7.1
	<1992Dec13.223840.20089@netcom.com> <1ggpufINN917@plts.uucp>
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: hopkins@ECP.GARNET.CS.CMU.EDU

tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli) writes:

   If you want political reasons why it is included, refer my previous
   post.  The legalization of sodomy is based on the same part of the
   constitution as freedom of choice.  You overturn that part of the
   constitution and you strike down the laws that protect us too.

I know someone whose pet theory is that gay men support the freedom of
choice out of a misogynistic desire to control women.  He's a wanna-be
separatist lesbian.  Is this a "standard" separatist lesbian theory?
That certainly isn't why I support freedom of choice, but he claims
it's the underlying reason anyway (so according to his theory, my gay
housemate who risks his well being every saturday to escourt women
into abortion clinics is really going out of his way to express his
deep seated misogyny, even if he doesn't realize it). 

	-Don
From: scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Call/Fax/Write Fernandez
Date: 11 Dec 92 16:05:56 GMT
Organization: BASIS International, Ltd., Albuquerque NM USA

In article <15033.2b276ce3@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (Michael S. Pettersen) writes:
>But you see, to allow people to see positive images of homosexuality
>is recruiting.  For then they get the idea that not EVERYONE thinks it's
>evil, that there's more than one possible point of view on the matter;
>and if they furthermore see that homosexuals can be HAPPY, then there
>isn't any more incentive to fight those dreadful secret urges.  
>
>Can anyone doubt that if you gave people the idea that it's okay
>to be gay or lesbian, that there would be many more "practicing
>homosexuals?"  It's a much more subtle version than Clayton Cramer's
>idea of recruiting, but much more realistic, and one that homophobes
>are right to be afraid of.  

After re-reading this I understood what you were saying but you're
gonna get roasted what it looks like it says.

-- 
Scott Amspoker                       |    
Basis International, Albuquerque, NM |  Too bad ignorance isn't really
                                     |  bliss.  Then it could be outlawed.
scott@bbx.basis.com                  |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rhiann@carson.u.washington.edu (Sandra Hereld)
Subject: Re: Porno for women vs. Women's porno
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 02:17:53 GMT

Yes, and this time alittle less about my sex life...

In article <1992Dec13.094148.13922@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>In article <1992Dec12.202734.3324@u.washington.edu> rhiann@carson.u.washington.edu (Sandy Hereld) writes:
>
>>Blake's 7 also has a huge amount of fan fiction.  Much of this is straight
>>but again, much of it involves same sex characters on the show.  Virtually
>>all of these stories are written by women, virtually all of these stories
>>are read by women, and much of it is the best porn I can find! 
>
>Can you give us fandom-ignorant folks an idea where we could acquire
>slash? How does one tell if it's going to be good? I get the
>impression this is not the sort of thing that's published widely..

Well, not only is this stuff homosexual, which would annoy some folks, and
explicit, which would annoy some other folks, and *very* small press, whicfh
would annoy any bookseller trying to make a living, it also exists in a
gray area in copyright law, since all of these stories are about copyrighted
characters.

Once you actually have a zine, it will have addresses for other zines, and
addresses for zines that are nothing but lists of other zines for sale (usually
with reviews)  It is hard to get into though.

There are a couple of scholarly books out recently about media fandom; they
both mention slash fandom (one even has pictures of slash art--Napolean and 
Illya, remember them?) Both writers talk about how they'd been doing research
for years before any of their fan connections would tell them about (or
show them examples of) slash.  The books are Enterprising Women, by Camille
Bacon-Smith, and Textual Poachers by Henry Jenkins.  I recommend them both
for anyone interested in the creation of popular myths.
From: prufrock@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scot N Gibson)
Subject: Re: Aladdin
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 09:53:07 GMT

Also, the animator who did Jafar is openly gay.  He also did Gaston
from "Beauty and the Beast."  There's a good article on him in the
latest _Advocate_.  Apparently, Disney is a fairly gay-positive
company.  

(cf. the Dec. 1st _Advocate_, p. 84)

--scoT

-- 
 ______  | Scot N. Gibson  | "At times, indeed, almost ridiculous-- |
 \    /  | Stanford Univ.  |  Almost, at times, the Fool."          |
  \  /   +-----------------+-------------+             - T.S. Eliot |
   \/    | prufrock@leland.stanford.edu  |--------------------------+
From: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: PHOBE ALERT:  Clinton Faces Firestorm on Military Issue
Date: 17 Dec 1992 18:54:14 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Reply-To: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: ansible.pubs.stratus.com

Bryan <bjb@macsch.com> writes
>                 From Washington Watch, published by the
>                        Family Research Council.
>
>NEWSWEEK calls it a "minefield."  Columnist Ben Wattenberg says it's "a 
>ticking time bomb."  And Senate Minority Leader Bob Dole (R-Kan.) says 
>it "could blow the lid off the Capitol Dome."  But President-elect Bill 
>Clinton's plan to recruit homosexuals for the military is hurtling 
>ahead.

I scanned this a little fast at first, and started thinking the
article you posted actually came from Newsweek.  I was quite 
relieved to see that I was wrong.

I love the way the far right is misrepresenting this issue. Geesh.

I wrote to Clinton & Powell to drop the ban issue recently.  I'm sure
many of you wrote saying the same.  Has anyone heard anything?

*  In Germany they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak *
*  because I wasn't a Communist.  Then they came for the Jews, and I *
*  didn't speak because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade *
* unionists, and I didn't speak because I wasn't a trade unionist... *
*Then they came for me--and by that time no one was left to speak up.*
*  Rev. Martin Niemoeller     [Why to March on Washington in April]  *
From: jefu@nmt.edu (Jeff Putnam)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Call/Fax/Write Fernandez
Date: 11 Dec 92 15:15:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: nmt.1992Dec11.151552.10923
Organization: The Museum of Differential Geometry

In article <1992Dec10.203654.26814@Princeton.EDU> harvey@warbler.princeton.edu (Harvey Cohen) writes:
>In article <1g8139INNm2j@hp-col.col.hp.com> smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith)
>writes:

... bunches of good stuff deleted ...

>	The reason I emphasized the Catholicness of the school board is because of
>that Church's extremely virulent anti-gay bias, and its hatred (as in "hate the
>sin...") of any non-procreative sex. Catholic dogma (new catechism, hot off the
>presses) is still  oppresively anti-gay.  Recent news releases from the Vatican
>have condoned gay-bashing ("we should not be surprised at violent
>reactions.....") as well as lobbied American clergy to fight against any civil
>protections for gay and lesbian people. 

I'm always a bit bemused by the anti-gay stance of the Catholic church.  I
used to know a priest who quite regularly spent friday and saturday
nights in gay bars.  Evidently after a bit the bishop told him that 
bringing his tricks (sometimes hungover) to church was not in good form, so he
would leave them in the rectory (is that the word i seek?) for
breakfast while he celebrated mass.  Then too the stories I hear of 
groups of brothers (monks or lay(!?) brothers) living together and
often enough sleeping together as well.  Or the rather low key
response the church seems to favor for priests who abuse kids.  

Evidently the church's stance is to hate homosexuality except within
the church.  

-- 
jefu <=> Jeff Putnam - New Mexico Tech <=> jefu@nmt.edu 
"Daffodils go Ping! and Oink! // They Really are alarming 
I'm scared of big geraniums // And I'm sure that Lilac's harming"
(Dr. Bertram X. Fegg)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: raffin@fhr.ma30.bull.com (Patrick Raffin)
Subject: Re: Outed by the 'phone company?
Organization: Bull HN Information Systems Inc.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:21:08 GMT

To be more precise, in France, you receive a list of telephone numbers,
but 1) without the names, and
    2) without the last four digits (to ensure your privacy)
You, the owner of the line, may go to your telco and look at the full numbers.


--
Patrick RAFFIN, raffin@fhr.bull.com 
  __       Just a French tourist,
  \/       doesn't speak English, nor Unix
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: A Better Year Ahead
Date: 19 Dec 92 16:40:17 GMT
Organization: insert anything here

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>But there are other issues to be worked out too.  I see
>these as including, but not limited to:
>
>-  Changing the base name from motss to something more
>   obviously related to lesbian, gay, and bisexual
>   interests.  We've had very full discussions of this issue
>   several times in the not too distant past.  From those
>   discussions, "gay" alone won't fly.  There's close to
>   complete consensus, I think, that we need greater
>   inclusiveness than that.  Strictly for economy, lots of
>   us say LGB or LGBO to refer to the cohort.  But unless
>   you're already familiar with that acronym, it's every bit
>   as opaque as motss.  That's why I currently favor
>   soc.lesbigay.

	Don't forget there is already a soc.bi, for good reasons.  
One could (but I won't) make the argument that there would be 4/3rds
bisexual groups and 1/3rd each for gay and lesbians...  :-)

	I'd rather have motss (or motas) because of 1) the culture
that pre-dates it, and 2) the slight ambiguity which allows a lot
of people to be "included" without having to "belong" to one of the
3 groups in lesbigay.  We could go with soc.lesbigaytvtsotherfriends, but
that's too much to type.  It would be nice to go with soc.GLBO*
but the * gets in the way --- soc.glbo is as unobvious as soc.motss
so there's no answer that "fixes" everything wrong with soc.motss
without introducing new and equally important problems.

	We've done OK for 9.2 years - it's not like the group isn't
surviving for lack of exposure.  While we're also trying to cut 
down on unwarranted crosspostings, even looking in one of the other
more obvious groups, say a.p.h or soc.bi, one wouldn't take too long
to notice soc.motss.

BBC
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo)
Subject: Re: A Taste of Culture
Keywords: Gay food
Organization: New York University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:32:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.163846.28709@panix.com> mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:

>For what they call "The Main affair" they suggest--among other
>things, Broken Heart, Kiss My Pork Butt, Donna's Penis Pie (I must
>look that one up), and Tongue Teaser.

Now, Mara, we had been discussing food that *looked* like erotic parts but 
Donna's Penis Pie might simply be made from the raw ingredients.  At 
Christmas time in South Philadelphia the Italian meat markets sell pig 
penises as a special holiday treat; they are rather long and curly sitting 
in the windows of the butcher shops.  I though you were supposed to fry them 
up (since they are pork they would have to be thoroughly cooked) but I 
suppose you could bake them in a pie.  

Emily
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dbidwa@sei.cmu.edu (Daniel Bidwa)
Subject: Re: Devil CD's
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:26:21 EST

[The story so far: George (Furr@cup.portal.com) says yea to Metallica; I say
blech; Ailsa (ailsa@ailanthus.com) says blech (to me, to Metallica, to
Megadeth, to George, yes no maybe so, whatever) and yea to Judas Priest.]

I have to admit, "Painkiller" was a pleasant surprise after doodoo like "Turbo
Lover" (or whatever the name of that album was). Not "The Green Manalishi",
but then again, what is? 

(hey, and I think quoting Toto in a .sig file disallows you from any
"teenybopper" cracks...:-)


dan
Newsgroups: soc.motss