HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: linville@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (John W. Linville)
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Organization: Computer and Technologies Theme Program, NCSU, Raleigh
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:20:49 GMT

In article <Bxu34t.6tB@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason Balicki (KodaK)) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.223302.6261@ncsu.edu> linville@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (John W. Linville) writes:
>>Finally, for those who devalue high processor speeds, try getting 30-40 back-
>>ground processes running and then tell me how well your Amiga compares to my
>>PC running OS/2.
>
>First, what kind of processes?  Are you talking full fledged apps or just 
>screen savers and the like...

I'm talking about editors, games, word processors, networking software, drawing
programs, etc along with clocks, calculators, etc.  I am running 31 of them
right this minute, and the foreground process is essentially just as responsive
as with almost nothing else running.

>Second, if you need to run 30-40 processes, I'd suggest getting a 
>mini-computer as a PC (that's Personal Computer, not IBM) just isn't 
>going to cut it for real time work.

A mini?  For just 30-40 processes?  Maybe if I had to do that constantly, but
for occasionaly heavy loads, why should I waste money on a mini when my PC
does the job just fine for ~$1500?  

John W. Linville




+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|   John W. Linville                 Amateur radio:  KD4KHC                   |
|   #include "std_disclaimer.h"      E-mail:  linville@catt.ncsu.edu          |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why consider an Amiga?  [A stoned Mac user wants to know]
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:00:17 PST
Organization: TAP

Quoted from <84082@ut-emx.uucp> by ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd):

> 1:  What is the difference between programming on a Mac or an Amiga?

    Quite big. The Mac has better tools, the Amiga is more C oriented
    (as opposed to Pascal). The Amiga has great documentation. Back
    when I had to program on the Mac, Amiga ways of doing things made
    more sense (and I was a beginner to both at the time).

> 2:  Will Apple's ButtKicker line (PowerPC) kill off the C= line?

    No. And isn't that more like "ButtSucker line" (Apple wrt IBM)?

> 3:  I heard the Amiga is the only computer out there with every
>     major app key-disk or hardware copy-protected.  It this true,
>     or crockery?

    A total crock.

> 4:  How large is the C= presence in the US and worldwide?

    Reasonably significant.

> 4.5:  What are these freddie fish, or whatever thingies that are at
>       the local archive site?

    The AmigaLibDisk library is a set of 700+ disks maintained by Fred
    Fish (and thus also known as Fish disks), for the distribution of
    freely distributable software.

> 5:  Is the Amiga considered a workstation? :-) (For people reading c.s.m.a)

    Yes.

> 6:  Is there a UNIX that is runnable on the systems?

    Yes.

> 7:  Where can I find a C= dealer?  (These birds are as rare as
>     hen's teeth around Austin, TX)

    New Zealand.

> 8:  What encryption proggies are there to secure hard disks or files?

    Depends on what sort of encryption you want to do. XPK will let
    you do encryption.

> 9:  Does C= sell TEMPEST spec Amigas?

    As in Troy Tempest? I've got a MOD file called mod.marina...

> 10:  How crashworthy is the Amiga OS?

    Very little. It is usually applications that crash, not the OS.

> 11:  (The beeg question :-)  Why should I port stuff over to the
>      Amiga line?

    To stick it to Apple, and thus support the LPF (League for
    Programming Freedom).

> ********** ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) **********
--
*** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)
Subject: Re: NEWTEK: WHAT HAPPENED?
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 06:19:07 GMT

In article <1ejqfeINNjk4@network.ucsd.edu> simon@ivem.ucsd.edu (Simon)
writes:

>Well, rumors are rumors so take it for what it's worth.  But from what I've
>seen between CBM and NewTek, they don't seem to be on the friendly side.  It's
>not good for NewTek, especially since they use CBM's product.

This situation was inevitable. In one respect, NewTek failed to conform to
hardware specs and wanted exclusive distribution rights at authorized
dealerships. On the other hand, there is CBM marketing...

>Exactly.  That's why I don't understand why NewTek decided to write a Toaster
>interface for the Mac and PC when they can just use the Amiga?  I don't think
>NewTek really cares too much for the Amiga anymore.  Where's the money from
>sales going?  To a A3000/A4000 version of the Toaster?  Or maybe a Mac or PC
>version.

Look at it this way: Mac users created an uproar when WordPerfect Corporation
released the Mac version of WP in a format that didn't comply with the GUI
standards. Imagine the consternation over an entirely alien environment. As
for R&D, we'll have to wait and see what they come up with. I'd prefer to
see the awe-inspiring hardware come from CBM. 
 
>Yea, that's why they mention Mac and PC's all over the place, and hide the
>Amiga's label.  That's not even mentioning technical aspects of computing, but
>just recognizing a name.  Is that too hard to do?

I wouldn't say that they conceal the Amiga label any more than CBM 'conceals'
the origin of the products they OEM. The standalone Toaster is being
marketed as a video workstation, not a computer. Like it or not, this device
has garnered tremendous respect for the Amiga in general.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:33:04 EST
From: Chris "Slothman" Stoy <CMS129@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: The piracy argument to end all arguments....
 <92322.143017CMS129@psuvm.psu.edu> <1992Nov18.090412.19810@microware.com>


In article <1992Nov18.090412.19810@microware.com>, jejones@microware.com (James
Jones) says:
>
>In article <92322.143017CMS129@psuvm.psu.edu> CMS129@psuvm.psu.edu
>(ChrisSlothman Stoy) writes:
>> The answer to question 2 (which is what most of the people here seem to be
>>arguinng about) is not as clear.  There is no standard morality for the human
>>race.
>
>True, but some things seem to be fairly uniformly deprecated, e.g. murder and
>theft.  Software "piracy" falls in the latter category.
>
Let me ask you this:  If someone were trying to kill you, would it be wrong to
kill them?  If you were starving on the street, would it be wrong for you to
steal some food?  A lot of people's actions are based on what they have and
what they need at the moment.  If you have the money and you need a piece of
software, then you'll buy it (or at least you should).  If you don't have the
money and you need the software, then you'll get it however you can.  If your
need is great enough, you'll walk into a store and steal it.  It's much easier
to find someone who already baught it and make a copy of it, and a lot less
risky.
Wait, this is starting to sound like I support piracy.  I don't. It's just that
a lot of you here on the net seem to forget that not everyone can afford the
new BlastoPuppies (c) game and it's a REAL HARD (R) temptation to resist
getting a copy from your friend.  It's hard to justify spending $50 of money
you don't really have on a game that will keep you entertained for at most 2
weeks.  (ooohhh... I can feel the flames comming from this one...)

>        James Jones


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris "Slothman" Stoy |  DISCLAIMER: The views expressed within are not
cms129 at psuvm       |  mine but those of my pet hamster Gizmo. HE'S
cms129@psuvm.psu.edu  |  responsible for this! Blame him!        ^^^^
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.atari.st.tech
From: eyvind@Lise.Unit.NO (Eyvind Bernhardsen)
Subject: Re: PIRACY
Keywords: semprini, spam, ni, naughty bits
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 18:00:21 GMT

[I approve of whoever put those keywords in]

In article <bmccnnll.721933383@unix1.tcd.ie>, bmccnnll@unix1.tcd.ie (Barry McConnell) writes:
 > In <1992Nov15.171003.10045@ra.msstate.edu> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
 > 
 > >Okay, let's apply that same logic to other issues.  The car thief never bought
 > >the car, nor would they have bought it, therefore there is no net gain and
 > >no net loss.
 > 
 > Yes there is: something physical is stolen, which prevents someone else from
 > legally buying it. The point the original poster was making is that - even
 > if they "steal" the software - the original package will be available for 
 > someone else to buy. The software company does not actually lose something

Yeah, and there'll still be another car in the same range...

 > physical as a result. It's all on paper. :-)  My understanding of whether

Sorta like your bank account.  Should I screw with that?

 > someone is depriving a software company of money is: would they have paid
 > real money for that package if they couldn't copy it? An example: someone
 > has a copy of ProPage on their HD. They use it maybe twice a year for running
 > off a CV. Is it worth paying $200 (or whatever) for that privilege? If copying
 > software was impossible, would they buy it? No, they would just find a friend
 > who had bought it, call over to him/her, and borrow their machine for an hour
 > or so. So the software company doesn't lose out in the end.

Uh huh.  So, 'I'm not gonna use this much, so it's OK to pirate it'.  Hmm, my lab
reports would look *SOO* much nicer if they were DTPed, tho...  So would my essays
and the college newsletter needs some style...'.  If you have something, you're
gonna use it.  If you're not gonna use it, you wipe it.

 > Barry.

-Eyvind

-- 
     //|                             | DISCLAIMER: No matter *WHAT* is written
    // |                             | above...  This is *NOT* a flame.
\\ //--|miga: There can be only one. |
 \X/   |         eyvind@lise.unit.no | Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!  Ackpth!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling)
Subject: Re: Future Entertainment Show, London
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 22:00:45 GMT

andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes:
kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes:
>>Uh, we've already agreed that the summer demos were running off prototypes.
>
>Running a demo on a Compaq is stretching the term 'prototype' don't you
>think ?  (I'm sure you'd have mentioned it if the CD-I machine
>switched to MSDOS :-) )
 
I don't know if it was running off a Compaq or not, but since the demo
was supposed to show what MPEG FMV on a CD-I player would look like, then
the display could've been prerecorded to an LD for all it really matters.

Would playing a Toaster demo tape at a show be misleading because it's not
an actual Toaster?  Especially when the reps admit it's a demo when asked?
Naw.  This debate is moot since the same demo is now run on CD-I players,
and of course it looks just like the earlier demo showed that it would.
Why wouldn't it?  Full MPEG-I video output from CD is the same anywhere.

That's why I brought up that CDTV demo.  It could be argued that, Kodak code
or not, the CDTV display was a valid demo of the possibilities (for CDTV).
OTOH, if someone's going to nitpick about the CD-I MPEG demo, then we can
have a heyday nitpicking about the validity of the CDTV demo :-)   Truce?

kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu> <76703.4227@compuserve.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: "Erik S. Kolar" <ekolar@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Amiga/Video Toaster featured on TV program
Organization: Only Amiga Makes It Possible!
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:54:47 -0500

In article <1992Nov18.132818.16235@zds-oem.zds.com> easton@zds-oem.zds.com (Jeff Easton) writes:
>  After watching the show it became apparent to me why we have no
>toaster for the A3000 or A4000.  These guys are spending all their
>time shopping for matching Acura NSX's, corporate jets, playing
>video games, designing robotic track lighting and musical big birds,
>and watching star trek.  Sheesh!

Yeah, no doubt.  I got the impression that NewTek was a company of two hackers
living it up because their hack sold thousands.  Although a pretty good piece,
did you notice that when they showed the Amiga, it was one of those OEMed
Toaster models?  You never saw an actual machine that said "Amiga" on it,
though a Mac SE (ugh!) was prominently displayed at NewTek's ad agency.




-- 
-=+> Erik Scott Kolar                                      ,_,             <+=-
-=+> Internet:  ekolar@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu               /oo \  _.-.      <+=-
-=+> Bitnet:  ekolar@iubacs                               <>__| /- O O     <+=-
-=+> DISCLAIMER:  The opinions expressed are my own.      |  U|    \|      <+=-
-=+> I do not speak for Indiana University or UCS.     "What is it, man?"  <+=-
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: linville@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (John W. Linville)
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Organization: Computer and Technologies Theme Program, NCSU, Raleigh
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 03:39:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.163159.881@nrlvx1.nrl.navy.mil> dyer@nrlvx1.nrl.navy.mil (Doug Dyer) writes:

>run about that many processes every day.  Its CPU INTENSIVE apps that kill - 
>ie morphers, ray-tracers.  A couple of those at a reasonably high priority is 
>very noticable on any machine.  

OS/2 ray-tracers never kill my system.

John W. Linville



+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|   John W. Linville                 Amateur radio:  KD4KHC                   |
|   #include "std_disclaimer.h"      E-mail:  linville@catt.ncsu.edu          |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
From: martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Psigon Matrix....do you DOUBT us??)
Date: 17 Nov 92 12:56:50 -0600
Reply-To: martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
 <Bxu34t.6tB@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>,<1992Nov17.162049.9038@ncsu.edu>
Organization: St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN

In article <1992Nov17.162049.9038@ncsu.edu>, linville@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (John W. Linville) writes:
>In article <Bxu34t.6tB@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason Balicki (KodaK)) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov16.223302.6261@ncsu.edu> linville@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (John W. Linville) writes:
>>>Finally, for those who devalue high processor speeds, try getting 30-40 back-
>>>ground processes running and then tell me how well your Amiga compares to my
>>>PC running OS/2.
>>
>>First, what kind of processes?  Are you talking full fledged apps or just 
>>screen savers and the like...
>
>I'm talking about editors, games, word processors, networking software, drawing
>programs, etc along with clocks, calculators, etc.  I am running 31 of them
>right this minute, and the foreground process is essentially just as responsive
>as with almost nothing else running.


and all the background tasks are dead in the water.... 


>|   John W. Linville                 Amateur radio:  KD4KHC                   |


Jim
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   It is not I who am CrAzY, it is I who am MAD!!!!! -Ren (SpaCe MaDDneSs)
Living w/o a computer 'till the 4000 comes. Sigh... X-ASOCC (CBM Blew that one)
           Jim Martin   MATRIX -- If it's made, we sell it. Almost.
A4000 Coming SOON!!, Real soon.                 MARTIN@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ivan_Pintori@mas.sublink.org (Ivan Pintori)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: EGGPLANT, IMPLANT, EMPATH, BLAZEPLANT...
Date: 17 Nov 92 03:27:23 GMT
Organization: Mangazone Advanced Services - ++39-6-7029438

In a message dated Mon 16 Nov 92  4:30, Gerald@seas.gwu.edu (gerald G. Wash
wrote:

 GGW> As if the title does not give it away, Emplant is vaporware. 

Emplant is not vaporware.  Now just all of you geeks shut up and read the
news in the appropiate newsgroup before opening your mouth.

Also another thing:

 (1) Mac is a nice machine, if it were not for the stupid closed-box
architecture.

 (2) Mac is pretty irrilevant as well as anything else around.  Big
companies (and I mean BIG) use such systems as DEC and IBMs.  So don't even
think about comparing Macs on to the high level market.

 (3) Amiga has been and is far better than any closed-box architecture
still around.

 (4) To Mac Users reading c.s.a.advocacy: What the heck are you doing here?
Just get back to your greedy mother!  I don't see and stinking Apple
business in this NewsGroup.


-- Via DLG Pro v0.995

|  ARPA InterNet Mail --> Ivan_Pintori@mas.sublink.org                  |
|  Fidonet Matrix ------> FidoNet:  Ivan Pintori 2:335/330@fidonet.org  |
|  Amiganet Matrix -----> AmigaNet: Ivan Pintori 39:102/3@amiganet.ftn  |
From: pm@nnsgs50.lon40.nt.com (Peter Mitchell)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Future show/A1200
Date: 16 Nov 1992 12:02:36 GMT
Organization: Northern Telecom Europe
NNTP-Posting-Host: nnsgs50.lon40.nt.com

In article <1992Nov13.102648.3403@aber.ac.uk> ajr@aber.ac.uk writes:
>
>PS. One problem with the Show - it was packed out on Saturday with kids
>after Sega and Nintendo stuff. I could have picked up a few bargains but I
>just wanted to get out of there. Can anyone comment on the rumour that a
>riot occurred outside later that day when tickets ran out?

I heard about this riot on the radio on monday morning. Apparently Earls
court was filled to capacity and they had to close the doors to non ticket
holders. On closing the doors a scuffle apparently broke out.

On Sunday when I went there was a 4 hour wait for non ticket holders. This
was quite ammusing as the time was 12 o'clock and the show closed at 4pm.

I had a ticket and it took me half an hour to get in.

Incidently every A1200 at the show had been sold. It was possible to order
one but the prices were going up.

-- 
Peter Mitchell - Senior Design Engineer.   | 
Dept.92941, TXE Engineering,               |        SCSI FOREVER!
NT Europe LTD.                             |
peter.mitchell@lon40.nt.com                |
From: marks@castle.ed.ac.uk (Mark Steyn)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: The Falcon has a 16 bit bus
Date: 20 Nov 92 15:29:48 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: Edinburgh University

I've been following and interacting with this thread on atari.st.tech 
and since nobody has posted anything about it here yet I thought that 
I might as well add to the great A1200 vs Falcon debate.

Yes, no more will you have to argue about the Falcon's shared video bus.
Now you have a much bigger stick to beat 'those who would advocate the
Falcon in amiga.advocacy' with.

Yes, the Falcon has a 16 bit data bus and a 24 bit address bus.
Just like the Mac LCII and Classic.  DSP or no, the Falcon doesn't 
sound quite so attractive anymore, does it?

Now, does anybody want to compare the speed of the Falcon and the A1200?

	Mark
-- 
? Look within the Hearts of mortal men and see, ? Mark Steyn :          ?
? The Hopes, Dreams and Wishes of a world,      ? marks@castle.ed.ac.uk ?
? Guarded under Lock and Key.                   ? mpjs@dcs.ed.ac.uk     ?
From: Tad_felix_Bilby@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 pictures
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 15:25:52 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa

The @#!?# keyboard connector is NOT the same as CDTV! It has 6 pins
vs CDTV which has 5 pins. It might be easily fixed however if
you drill a small hole in the CDTV recepticle for the sixth
pin.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 03:41:39 GMT

jgrimm@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Jeffrey Grimmett 9999) writes:
>Quoth linville@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (John W. Linville):
>> Most people use the largest portion of their HD space for 'scratch' space.
>> I know that I use mine that way.  When that last 20 megs becomes of critical
>> importance, buy a bigger drive.  You obviously need the space anyway.  
>
>Could you give me a little hard data on what constitutes "most" people?  I for
>one see more people on the verge of running out of room than people who
>aren't, both peecee and Amiga.  If IDE's are THAT cheap, I don't understand
>how they ended up in such a situation.  From my own personal experience I
>know it ain't so, but I suppose I am a lone exception, eh?

True, despite those arguments of "PC's are cheap!" and "upgrades are cheap!",
they are not.  The requirements of OS/2, for example, do not make it cheap
unless you already have the necessary hardware.  Most people do not buy a
new $2000 computer system every time a new OS comes out.  (Well, there are
a few, but...)  Most people I know do not even buy those $300+ software
packages they use all the time.

-- Gerald
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jgrimm@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Jeffrey Grimmett 9999)
Subject: Re: WB3.0 & ECS machines - a thought
Organization: NCR (Torrey Pines Development Center)
Disclaimer: This posting does not necessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 20:37:43 GMT

Quoth tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran):
]> 
]> >Well, sh*t... what **IS** in WB 2.1???
]> 
]> CrossDOS, localization, increased consistency in look and feel, a nifty time
]> zone display, and good karma :).

Well, there ya have it -- all the reason *I* need!  I need all the karma I
can get!  :-)
-- 
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@********************************************
Jeff Grimmett [SuperBitMap BBS]          * fido!1:202/1401.0 [619-460-7290]
jeff_grimmett@f1401.n202.z1.fidonet.org  * jgrimm@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com
 The opinions expressed in this message are thoughtful, reasoned, and logical.
      	It goes without saying that they are not those of my employer.
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jhp3x@fulton.seas.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Howard Porter)
Subject: Re: Amiga or Messy-DOS
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:50:10 GMT

>'>> A drawback  with a PC is of course Messy-DOS and Windows.
>'>This IS a major drawback %^)
>
>	No one is forcing you to get it.  Take a look at alternatives like
>   OS2 2.0, desqview, UNIX.  

Ok... OS2 and UNIX.. but don't mention desqview.. Eeewwww.. It is
really terrible... (IMO of course! :-)  )


Jeff