HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lower-tony@cs.yale.edu (Tony Lower)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: AD&D bashing (was Re: Getting up my nose (Top 5 games))
Date: 14 Dec 1992 22:21:08 -0500
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: jaguar.zoo.cs.yale.edu

Brent> "When *we* started playing RPG's we had to make our own
Brent> dice out of REAL DRAGON BONES, and had to roll the dice
Brent> uphill, both ways!! Now *that* was gaming!"

Jason> "Ah well, we had it tough... We used to have to game
Jason> WITHOUT dice! We had to roll STICKS! A dice would have
Jason> been luxury to us. There we were, 78 of us huddled
Jason> together in a paper bag in the middle of the road
Jason> sucking on a damp cloth and munching our cold gravel."

>>"Luxury!  We only had time to play from midnight to one a.m. on
>>christmas eve, and had to knock out all out teeth to get dice.  We
>>didn't have pen *or* paper, but carved battlemaps with our nails in
>>the concrete walls in the 4" sewer pipe we had to play in.  Dragon
>>bones, HAH!"
>
>God!  You lucky bastards!  When WE started gaming, the GM would KILL one
>of the players once a week just so we'd remember what a corpse looked
>like.  Then we had to dig out the poor sot's heart with our TEETH.  After
>that, IF we were lucky, we were allowed to cut off our finger joints and
>use them for dice.  And nobody had better disagree, either.  If that
>happened, not only would the GM kill the player and both the other players
>sitting on either side of him, but then he'd run off and kill that players
>ENTIRE family for ten generations to either side.
>
>We would have dreamed of playing in a sewer.  All we had was this patch
>of dirt--and we had to keep moving since the Air Force was using it for
>live-fire drills.  Do you have any idea what napalm does to dice made from
>your own finger joints?  Some of us were reduced to shaving off bits of 
>our forearms after a while.
>
>And cold gravel?  That would have been a feast!  We had to eat radioactive
>waste--undercooked radioactive waste...that was badly seasoned besides!
>
>You kids had it easy.
>


Right.

Now _WE_ had it tough.

I remember we had to MAKE all our character's equipment out of cast-off
rags and bottlecaps.  And THEN, when we rolled a fumble (on dice lovingly
crafted from our cats hairballs) he would take your sword (made of bottle
caps and spit, but hones to a razor edge) and stick it clear through
your body, JUST to make sure you got the point.

And none of this sissy stuff about GMs killing your family.  If OUR GM
got mad at us, he would TELL our family what we'd been doing in the
campaign.  Ay, I would've blessed the soul that killed 'em all for ten
generations to each side.

Radioactive waste?  We had to eat green slime!  We would've KILLED for
radioactive waste!  Come to think of it, I did.

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy,rec.games.frp.misc
From: mr55371@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (KittyKat)
Subject: Re: T$R Newest "Product"
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 01:22:51 GMT
Keywords: TSR Greed Catalog

acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur C. Adams) writes:

>A Hardbound version of the 1993 Catalog.
>You buy it. 
>Its not a freebie.
>You pay money for the catalog.
>It does include 32 pages of interviews and insights, but this sounds
>like the most colossal rip-off in history of the RPG industry, 
>with the possible exception of Dangerous Journeys.

This sounds like it is primarily for stores/businesses.  Game stores
basically see their catalogs disintigrate from overuse.  I assume
this is who this product is aimed at.

KittyKat

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: akuma@netcom.com (Steven E Barnes)
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Discussion on .advocacy (related to the .cyber RFD)
Keywords: shadowrun, cyber, newgroup
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:45:59 GMT


OK, here's my opinion.  I'm an anime fan, and kind of interested
in Mekton and Robot Warriors.  I hate Battletech.  Guess what 90%
of the messages in rec.games.mecha are about?  The end result
is I usually don't bother reading the group.

Now I'm also interested in the Cyberpunk genre, although most
of the games don't appeal to me; I especially hate Shadowrun.
Guess what 90% of the posts to the .cyber group will be about?

If you call it .shadowrun, then that's fine with me.  Calling
it .cyber will imply that is is a general purpose group for
discussion of the Cyberpunk genre.

-steve

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: wilder@nx24.mik.uky.edu (jeff wilder)
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Discussion on .advocacy (related to the .cyber RFD)
Keywords: shadowrun, cyber, newgroup
    <1gib0nINNeu0@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu>
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
X-Path: nx24.mik.uky.edu!wilder
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:36:18 GMT

I also feel that a newly renamed rec.games.frp.cyber should include
Shadowrun-specific articles.

Cyberpunk as a genre is flexible enough to include the SR world.
--
==============================================================================
| Jeff W  uk06666@ukpr.uky.edu | Meddle not in the affairs of cats, for they |
| Wilder  & wilder@mik.uky.edu | are subtle, and will piss on your cyberdeck.|
==============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: gm1116@albnyvms.bitnet
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Discussion on .advocacy (related to the .cyber RFD)
Reply-To: gm1116@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 06:24:40 GMT

	As far as shadowrun in .cyber, I see no problem with the tech
side, but 50 posts a day regarding magic questions?????  No thank you.
Bring all the riggers and runners you wan't but kill the elves and mages
before coming to .cyber please

Badger
GM1116@albnyvms
-one newbie's opiinion
From: adair@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jonathan Edward Adair)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: AD&D bashing (was Re: Getting up my nose (Top 5 games))
Date: 14 Dec 1992 20:35:08 GMT
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In article <1992Dec11.120921.29146@syma.sussex.ac.uk> jasonr@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Jason F Ralph) writes:
>Brent Irvine (irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote:
>: [stuff deletd about how 1st Edition D&D was the best and it is all downhill]
>: 
>: "When *we* started playing RPG's we had to make our own dice out of
>: REAL DRAGON BONES, and had to roll the dice uphill, both ways!! Now
>: *that* was gaming!"
>: 
>
>"Ah well, we had it tough... We used to have to game WITHOUT dice! We had
>to roll STICKS! A dice would have been luxury to us. There we were, 78
>of us huddled together in a paper bag in the middle of the road sucking
>on a damp cloth and munching our cold gravel."
>

Well, when I first started gaming, I got TSR's D&D "Basic Set" (this was
around '81).  It didn't have DICE!  I guess they ran out of those cheap
plastic ones they'd toss in the box--the ones that chipped apart in
a week.  What the set did have, though, was a page of "chits."  You
would cut out these plastic-coated little pieces of paper and put them
in cups.  When you needed a die roll, you dipped into the d4 cup,
for examples.  It was disgusting.  How many other people got these
sets?  I thought that was the low point of TSR quality until I
saw "WG4".


--
Jonathan E. Adair  -  Programmer at Large                          /\
adair@gnu.ai.mit.edu             <-  Best choice                  /<>\
adair@eggo.csee.usf.edu          <-  Almost as good              /    \
adair@cfrrisc1.cfr.usf.edu       <-  Works for now              /______\
adair@psycho.fidonet.org         <-  Read yearly             The Illuminati
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: rcashman@cs.ulowell.edu (The Jester)
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Discussion on .advocacy (related to the .cyber RFD)
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:04:22 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.062440.24503@sarah.albany.edu> gm1116@albnyvms.bitnet writes:
>	As far as shadowrun in .cyber, I see no problem with the tech
>side, but 50 posts a day regarding magic questions?????  No thank you.
>Bring all the riggers and runners you wan't but kill the elves and mages
>before coming to .cyber please
>


Again, you militant folks in the .cyber group might just have to learn (gasp!)
how to use a kill file if you don't like Shadowrun.  I still fail to see the
problem you guys have got with the magic side of the game: IMHO, it provides
an interesting twist from the straight-out gritty games like Cyberpunk 2020.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brett Cashman (The Jester)			    	rcashman@cs.ulowell.edu

"There's a place I like to hide,
 A doorway that I run through in the night."		- Geoff Tate
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: AD&D bashing (was Re: Getting up my nose (Top 5 games))
From: scimitar@suction.acme.gen.nz (Robert Singers)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 23:45:41 +1300
Organization: Barbed Wire Cat Productions

durrell@pinball.arcade.uiowa.edu (Bryant Durrell) writes:

> That's nothing.  We used to have to game without *any random number
> generators at all*!  Yep, our GMs had to run the game without any
> help from modern stuff like dice, making decisions about every aspect
> of the game --
> 

God that's nothing, we had to play in the dark, cause the oil lamps used 
to set fire to the tree bark we were using for character sheets.  Oh 
yes, the GM used rune stones to generate the game.

Robert Singers               | Nothing I say or do should be taken as
scimitar@suction.acme.gen.nz | a reflection of any form of reality or
                             | consensual hallucination.
From: jgl2p@landau5.phys.Virginia.EDU (Joseph G. Louderback)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: AD&D bashing (was Re: Getting up my nose (Top 5 games))
Date: 20 Dec 92 22:24:14 GMT
Reply-To: jgl2p@landau5.phys.Virginia.EDU (Joseph G. Louderback)
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <uuNTVB4w165w@suction.acme.gen.nz>,
scimitar@suction.acme.gen.nz (Robert Singers) writes:
|> durrell@pinball.arcade.uiowa.edu (Bryant Durrell) writes:
|> 
|> > That's nothing.  We used to have to game without *any random
number
|> > generators at all*!  Yep, our GMs had to run the game without any
|> > help from modern stuff like dice, making decisions about every
aspect
|> > of the game --
|> > 
|> 
|> God that's nothing, we had to play in the dark, cause the oil lamps
used 
|> to set fire to the tree bark we were using for character sheets.  Oh
|> yes, the GM used rune stones to generate the game.

I don't want to hear it.  Y'all are still talking about AD&D-style
games.
WE had to play Call of Cthulhu for real.  They only let me out of the
straitjacket for a few minutes at a time now, so I can't detail the
hor-
rible things we had to endure.  Perhaps it is better that way.
Ia Ia Sub-Niggurath!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jgliv
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy,rec.games.frp.misc
From: lev0@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ron Levy (Armchair))
Subject: T$R Newest "Product": What it REALLY is
Keywords: TSR Greed Catalog
Reply-To: lev0@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Worshippers of Yig
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 21:15:40 GMT


>>Believe it or not, folks, T$R's latest product is:
>>A Hardbound version of the 1993 Catalog.

>It costs $10.  Available in January for those who HAVE to have EVERYTHING.  :)

Don't be silly.  You're getting a hardbound TSR book for ten dollars.
Don't you remember what you REALLY used all those handbooks and guides and
arcanas for when you were playing the games?  I mean, sure, you read
them now and again, but they were still so USEFUL after you had them
memorized.

You wrote on them.  You stored your papers in them.  You got to look
at the artwork on the front.  Yes, they're selling you a lap clipboard/
desk assembly.  You know you want it.  That way you won't have to mess
up the front of your AD&DV2 books with those pencil-pushed markings on
the front.

For ten dollars, that's a steal.  Try and buy a lap desk in an office
supply store and see what you get.



-- 
Welcome to the Hotel CaineFiona
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: jacobus@symphony.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Re: AD&D bashing (was Re: Getting up my nose (Top 5 games))
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 01:28:00 GMT

In article <KETIL.92Dec11163318@sandel.ii.uib.no> ketil@ii.uib.no writes:
>
>
>Brent Irvine (irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote:
>
>	Brent> [stuff deletd about how 1st Edition D&D was the best and it is all downhill]
>
>	Brent> "When *we* started playing RPG's we had to make our own
>	Brent> dice out of REAL DRAGON BONES, and had to roll the dice
>	Brent> uphill, both ways!! Now *that* was gaming!"
>	Brent> 
>
>>>>>> On Fri, 11 Dec 1992 12:09:21 GMT, jasonr@syma.sussex.ac.uk
>(Jason F Ralph) said:
>
>	Jason> "Ah well, we had it tough... We used to have to game
>	Jason> WITHOUT dice! We had to roll STICKS! A dice would have
>	Jason> been luxury to us. There we were, 78 of us huddled
>	Jason> together in a paper bag in the middle of the road
>	Jason> sucking on a damp cloth and munching our cold gravel."
>
>"Luxury!  We only had time to play from midnight to one a.m. on
>christmas eve, and had to knock out all out teeth to get dice.  We
>didn't have pen *or* paper, but carved battlemaps with our nails in
>the concrete walls in the 4" sewer pipe we had to play in.  Dragon
>bones, HAH!"
>



God!  You lucky bastards!  When WE started gaming, the GM would KILL one
of the players once a week just so we'd remember what a corpse looked
like.  Then we had to dig out the poor sot's heart with our TEETH.  After
that, IF we were lucky, we were allowed to cut off our finger joints and
use them for dice.  And nobody had better disagree, either.  If that
happened, not only would the GM kill the player and both the other players
sitting on either side of him, but then he'd run off and kill that players
ENTIRE family for ten generations to either side.



We would have dreamed of playing in a sewer.  All we had was this patch
of dirt--and we had to keep moving since the Air Force was using it for
live-fire drills.  Do you have any idea what napalm does to dice made from
your own finger joints?  Some of us were reduced to shaving off bits of 
our forearms after a while.

And cold gravel?  That would have been a feast!  We had to eat radioactive
waste--undercooked radioactive waste...that was badly seasoned besides!



You kids had it easy.
From: millerl@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Dangerous Journeys / Mythus
Date: 17 Dec 92 05:17:16 GMT
Organization: Newt World Order

One thing I can say in Dangerous Journeys' favor is that I think the
campaign world is full of good ideas, though they aren't strictly
original, and if nothing else it's a good list of fun things to do in a
roleplaying game. It also has a nice list of spells for various kinds of
sorcerors and theurgists. But I don't think it's really usable as a
game, per se, though it's a great supplement (and expensive) for another
game. It may not be hard for someone who plays AD&D to pick up DJ/M, and
I think my old high school AD&D crowd could have had a blast playing
DJ/M, but if you've started playing games beside AD&D going to DJ/M
would be a step backwards.

-- 
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller                           internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
Mediocrity is a hand rail.                         -- Baron de Montesquieu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy,rec.games.frp.misc
From: gjschmid@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Greg Schmidt)
Subject: Re: T$R Newest "Product"
Keywords: TSR Greed Catalog
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 06:55:20 GMT

In article <BzFL7v.Jxy@news.cso.uiuc.edu> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.212606.15713@afterlife.ncsc.mil> acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur C. Adams) writes:
>>You pay money for the catalog.
>
>The thing that scares me is that a few non-dealer saps will actually 
>buy it! 

The thing that bugs me is that a friend (whose parents own a warehouse that
deals in this stuff) will probably get it FREE (just like he's got everything
else TSR (or a couple other companies) puts out that he has any use (real or
imagined) for).  And I'll ask him why, and he'll just look at me like I'm the
one who has lost his mind...
 _________________________________________________________________
/ _ \     Greg Schmidt (gjschmidt@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca)    \
\__) \                                                             \
     |"The world is such a stupid place." -Tom Cochrane & Red Rider|   __
      \  "If you're optimistic, you're forgetting something." -me   \ (_ \
       \_____________________________________________________________\___/
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: sos@oz.plymouth.edu (Steffan O'Sullivan)
Subject: Re: How do the readers want anonymous postings handled?
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, NH.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 15:46:53 GMT

cwatters@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Coyt D Watters) writes:
>
>An anonymous posting can not be reliably linked to a real person.  However,
>my account can be tracked directly to me.  Yes, I am cwatters, and I do use
>the host magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu, and I had to sign a form to do so.  I can
>be located easily.  An anonymous posting can not be tracked so easily.

If you are liable for an anonymous post, Coyt, then I think it is
entirely within your rights not to post it.

-- 
  - Steffan O'Sullivan		         sos@oz.plymouth.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: lmollett@lunatix.uucp (Laura Mollett)
Subject: Re: How do the readers want anonymous postings handled?
Organization: Lexington Public Access Unix. -KY- (606) 255-9121
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:20:45 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.153533.4100@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> cwatters@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Coyt D Watters) writes:
>In article <1992Dec16.132305.6258@lunatix.uucp> lmollett@lunatix.uucp (Laura Mollett) writes:
>>
>>I can't think of too many reasons, but mebbe the posters boss doesn't like
>>them playing role-playing games or doesn't want them using the business 
>>computer for games or something.  Who knows?  Really, seems to me like the
>>point is, who cares?  If they have a reason to keep their name of it, let
>>them.  Why should we take away the chance of seeing a good post by insisting
>>it have a name on it?
>>
>>			Laura Mollett
>
>The problem lies with liability in case there is a copyright problem.  We've
>all gone through the "that's copywritten material!" flamefest.
>
>An anonymous posting can not be reliably linked to a real person.  However,
>my account can be tracked directly to me.  Yes, I am cwatters, and I do use
>the host magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu, and I had to sign a form to do so.  I can
>be located easily.  An anonymous posting can not be tracked so easily.
>
>-Coyt

Hmm...well I did say a "good" post <grin>.  Since we are talking about a
moderated group, I suppose it would be appropriate to not carry anything that
you _know_ is copywritten material, or that doesn't seem to fall within legal
bounderies (i.e. a review or whatnot).  However, I think for moderated groups
that would be reasonable to apply whether the post was anonymous or not.  If
you _know_ the poster is doing something illegal, don't carry the post.
However, I don't think any person/company or whatever can expect you to know
every piece of copyrighted material on the market, and doubt you are liable
for not deleting such a piece.  Flamewars aren't worth worrying about as they
are going to happen no matter how reasonable the majority is...someone or
'nother will come up with something to flame about.  If someone wants to
post anonymous copyrighted material - and make sure it gets posted - all they
have to do is put it in one of the non-moderated groups.  There's no way
to force people to post only appropriate things in .misc.  All we can do is
ask.  If that is the anonymous posters reason for posting anonymously, then
(IMNSHO) they are acting kinda silly in taking the chance you'll delete it.
I still say, if it looks like a _good_ post to you, put it up.  An anonymous
poster _might_ have a better reason than trying to keep the owner of a
copyright from tracking down his name.
				Laura Mollett

>
>
>


Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: rcashman@cs.ulowell.edu (The Jester)
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Discussion on .advocacy (related to the .cyber RFD)
Keywords: shadowrun, cyber, newgroup
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:58:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.234559.7363@netcom.com> akuma@netcom.com (Steven E Barnes) writes:
>
>OK, here's my opinion.  I'm an anime fan, and kind of interested
>in Mekton and Robot Warriors.  I hate Battletech.  Guess what 90%
>of the messages in rec.games.mecha are about?  The end result
>is I usually don't bother reading the group.
>
>Now I'm also interested in the Cyberpunk genre, although most
>of the games don't appeal to me; I especially hate Shadowrun.
>Guess what 90% of the posts to the .cyber group will be about?
>
>If you call it .shadowrun, then that's fine with me.  Calling
>it .cyber will imply that is is a general purpose group for
>discussion of the Cyberpunk genre.


I would submit that if it is called .cyber, it is as you say, a general
purpose group for the discussion of the cyberpunk genre (which, as much
as you may dislike to hear, Shadowrun is a part of).

Perhaps, if your index finger gets tired from hitting that 'N' key, you
could learn how to create kill files for the articles you don't want
to read?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brett Cashman (The Jester)			    	rcashman@cs.ulowell.edu

"There's a place I like to hide,
 A doorway that I run through in the night."		- Geoff Tate
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: zog@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Scott Allen Bauer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: DJ
Date: 16 Dec 1992 21:04:40 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu


	Well I will speak for the minority in the DJ issue.
So far from what I have read of DJ I have liked the system.

I agre with alot of the people about renaming all the terms 
like HP, STEEP, and the stats.  I also agree there are alot of
tables that are unessarily.

	But you need to remember that as a DM you can always 
change things.  I have started preparing  my world up with the
usage of DJ and there is very little that I have not changed 
slightly.  I changed the terms back to what everyone already knows
and understands.  
	The stats do not need to be randomly rolled.  They can be be 
assigned points.
	The tables can be deleted if you are playing with a group of 
good players that can think of there own ideas and are not a bunch
of D&D bunnies.
	
	All in all,  I dont think there is many "good" GMS that dont 
modify the system to suit both there world and needs.  If you dont like
the system see if it is usuable if you change some things around.

ZOG out
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: imeslsl@Msu.oscs.montana.edu (LEPRICAN~~~)
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Discussion on .advocacy (related to the .cyber RFD)
Reply-To: imeslsl@Msu.oscs.montana.edu (LEPRICAN~~~)
Organization: Montana State University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:38:10 GMT

>
>This is part of the discussion about the .cyber move. You can't just
>unmoderate a group that's charter states it is moderated, not without a
>full Usenet vote. That's what's going on.
>
>--Rat

Just to clarify:
I realize that, I just thought I'd comment.  This is how I noticed
the "most popular idea seems to be," from the discussion about the
proposed changes.  I had just finnished unsuccessfully posting to
that group when I read your (very ironic, huh?) statement about
everything getting automatically posted or whatever.  It wasn't meant
as an insult...    ...more a statement of my opinion on the matter.
{-:
	
	Leprican~~~