HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jburnes@swbatl.sbc.com (Jim Burnes - 235-7444)
Subject: Re: FAQ?
Organization: Southwestern Bell
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 14:26:16 GMT

Re: ignoring the revisionists....

Yes.  I agree wholeheartedly.  Lets put together a FAQ.  I got tons
of material for it.  I agree that the whole faust/zionist/holocaust
debate has become an incredible bandwidth absorber.  Any decent articles
are lost in the flurry of "Zionist!", "Nazi Puke!"," Am not!", "Are too!"
that goes on.

Lets do a test and see if the revisionists will go away if we just
ignore them and post a daily/weekly/bi-weekly/whatever FAQ that 
disclaims them and says they just keep posting this stuff without
any real hard evidence. Over and over and over and over....

Really people, this is like a dog chasing its tail.

I don't advocate censorship, but it would do us all a world of good
to pay attention to much more immediate problems.  We got bigger
fish to fry, as it were.

In the FAQ we might tell people the easiest way to put the revisionists
in their kill file if they wish.

It would be nice if the FAQ would also address other common issues like
any good FAQ should.

Jim Burnes

--
--------------------------+---------------------------+
Jim Burnes, UNIX SysAdmin !  The dogs bark, but the   !
SWBell Advanced Tech Labs !    caravan moves on.      !
(314) 235-7444            !  Pack your lunch, sit in  !
jburnes@swbatl.sbc.com    !   the bushes, and watch.  !
--------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Semite?
From: kmcvay@oneb.wimsey.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 03:31:10 GMT
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac, Vancouver Island

In article <703252821.F00001@blkcat.UUCP> Steve.Rose@f134.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Steve Rose) writes:

> KM> I saw a post recently from someone who traced the bbs phone numbers
> KM> back, and found them (it?) registered to a name in Portland that
> KM> rhymes with nerd.... I think it was Hurt or Hurd..... one can probably
> KM> assume, with some degree of safety, that "maynard" is one of several
> KM> alter egos conveniently adopted by this "hurt or hurd" idiot

>His name and BBS numbers aren't so secret!  I simply called B-CPU over

What _is_ his name, then? Who are the telephone numbers registered to?
Is that information available on his cesspool? 

Once again: Can someone in Portland provide fax numbers for the local
media, so I can send them some of the shit coming from that trashbin?
I'd love to see the results of some professional investigative
reporting!


-- 
      === The Old Frog's Almanac, Vancouver Island, Canada ===
  Waffle v1.64: (604) 758-9698 HST v32bis, (604) 758-6208(x4) 2400's
-------------> NO Veto for _any_ province -  EEE Senate!  <------------
kmcvay%oneb.wimsey.bc.ca@mala.bc.ca (.ALMANAC.BC.CA application pending)
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy:6227 alt.conspiracy.jfk:843
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: RFK shot in the back ?
Date: 10 Apr 92 14:22:59 GMT
Followup-To: alt.conspiracy
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <1992Apr10.130304.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au writes:
>
>I recall seeing the live television of the event and wondering why they
>were all screaming to "get the fucking gun" away from Sirhan yet couldn't
>do so. Sirhan was never close enough to RFK nor behind him to have shot
>point-blank (as proved by the powder burns) into the rear of Bobby's head.
>These are facts that are supported by the literature/evidence.
> 
>I think the guard was `forgiven' by the Kennedy family, and no charges laid.
>If the bodyguard did NOT fire the fatal shot, there must have been another
>assassin and there is no evidence for that. There is much more to the story
>but I thought all Americans knew it.
>
David Sheim in "Contract on America" claims that the guard was a
mafioso who had worked for Carlos Marcello.  Marcello still had
a score to settle with RFK over the Guatemala deportation.

Sheim says when Sirhan appeared, the guard started firing, and
put one well placed bullet right into RFK deliberately.








-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: dxc4@po.CWRU.Edu (David Condon)
Subject: Re: Did American Troops Kill 3 Million Filipinos?
Reply-To: dxc4@po.CWRU.Edu (David Condon)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 01:10:23 GMT


In a previous article, David.Choweller@bbs.oit.unc.edu (David Choweller) says:

>
>In an book review dating from the 60's Gore Vidal claims that
>American troops participated in the genocide of 3 million Filipinos
>at the "turn of the century."  I've never heard of this before.  Did this
>happen, and how widely accepted is this alleged fact?  I don't have the exact
>title of the article because I was just given a photocopy of it, but it's
>a review of a book about West Point.  Vidal spends almost not time reviewing
>the book, but expounds his own theories on how the people at West Point have
>been responsible for building America's "empire" throughout the world.

I would suggest you take a look at Howard Zinn's _A people's history of the
United States_ (Harper & Row, 1980) for some details. He quotes the Manila
correspondent for the _Philadelphia Ledger_ writing in November 1901:

	The present war is no bloodless, opera bouffe engagement;
	our men have been relentless, have killed to exterminate
	men, women, children, prisoners and captives, active insurgents
	and suspected people from lads of ten up, the idea prevailing
	that the Filipino as such was little better than a dog ... (p.308)

Mark Twain commented:

	We have pacified some thousands of the islanders and buried them;
	destroyed their fields; burned their villages, and turned their
	widows and orphans out-of-doors; furnished heartbreak by exile to 
	some dozens of disagreeable patriots; subjugated the remaining
	ten millions by Benevolent Assimilation, which is the pious new
	name of the musket ... (p.309)

Zinn writes: "Dead Filipinos were piled so high that the Americans used
their bodies for breastworks. A British witness said: 'This is not war;
it is simply massacre and murderous butchery.' He was wrong; it was war."
(p.309)
-- 
		Full frontal nudity? Yes, I'd do it if it was
		valid ... er, if the money was valid ... and
		if it were a small part.
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,talk.politics.misc,alt.save.the.earth
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.discrimination,soc.history,alt.activism
Subject: April 9
Date: 9 Apr 92 16:47:02 GMT
Organization: Summit NJ

>PS: It's now 12 o'clock and the flags are being lowered around Copenhagen. 
>52 years ago the Nazis invaded Denmark.

Continuing the tradition of ignorance of history in the U.S., while I guess
a few people know today as the anniversary of Lee's surrender to Grant
in 1865 (but who mistake that event as the end of the Civil War), the
surrender 50 years ago of 75,000 American and Filipino soldiers on
Luzon is totally ignored.  I thought for sure that the Sunday papers
last weekend would have a Bataan Death March human interest section, along
the lines of the Pearl Harbor anniversary stuff they have 4 months ago.

Now a question involving the German invasion of Denmark and Norway.  I
believe it was April 8 that Britain starting mining Norwegian waters
(was it to close the port of Narvik?).  Was this in response to a known
impending invasion?  (I don't think that the British mine laying operation
changed the invasion plans; is that correct?).
-- 
Stan Krieger                     All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
AT&T UNIX System Laboratories    if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: MEDELMA@cms.cc.wayne.edu (Michael Edelman)
Subject: Another U2 point to consider
Organization: Wayne State University
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 17:56:40 GMT

The fans of paranoid conspiracies seem to talk about the mysterious
shootdown of Powers as some sort of anomaly. In fact, *many* U2s were
shot down over Cuba and the peripery of the USSR. Power's shootdown
was only noteable because he was captured alive and because of the
political hay the hardliners in the USSR made of it.
 
         --mike
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy:6314 talk.politics.misc:18094
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: More Antisemitic lies From B-CPU
Date: 11 Apr 92 20:09:14 GMT
Organization: MacDTS Mongols

In article <1992Apr2.202656.19318@cs.brown.edu>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
writes:
> ???????????????????????????????????????????????
> Poland needs money to rebuild its country.  The Zionists have control
> of much of the international banks.  You can fill in the blanks.
> ???????????????????????????????????????????????
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Usuall Jew hating propaganda. Someone does not agree with their absurd
> "scientific findings", they blame the Zionist connection. Old Nazi
> trash.

Also, intelligent people need more evidence than sweeping claims about
secret societies controlling the world economy. And if this is the case,
you Zionists, get your act together, we have a damned recession!

Cheers,
Kent
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy:6089 alt.censorship:3153 alt.discrimination:1346 soc.history:3446 sci.research:462 alt.activism:7266
From: zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeff Zurschmeide)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship,alt.discrimination,soc.history,sci.research,alt.activism
Subject: Re: Want facts?  "WHO RUNS THE MEDIA?  The Alarming Facts"
Date: 6 Apr 92 18:22:45 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA

ralphw@b-cpu.UUCP (Ralph Winston) writes:
> 
>     If you agree that this booklet contains absolutely vital
>information that should be widely disseminated, you may order more
>copies of it.  Prices are: 4 for $3 (minimum order); 8 for $5; or 50
>for only $20.  Order from:
>NAAWP; Box 10625; New Orleans, LA 70181.


Gee, Ralph, isn't your source here the National Association for the
Advancement of White People, formerly run by former KKK leader and
noted American Nazi Party functionary David Duke? 

Unlike your usual assortment of unknown sources of questionable
intellect and integrity, this one we know all too well. 

JZ
-- 
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
	      One Shift		 ,			   Two Shift
Re d  S   h    i     f      t    ,       B     l      u      e     S    h  i ft
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy:6081 alt.activism:7259 talk.politics.misc:16963 misc.headlines:3190 soc.rights.human:1332 soc.culture.usa:2772 alt.conspiracy.jfk:770 alt.society.civil-liberty:3250 alt.censorship:3150
From: gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Re: Did American Troops Kill 3 Million Filipinos?
Organization: TECHbooks of Beaverton Oregon - Public Access Unix
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 17:21:17 GMT

David.Choweller@bbs.oit.unc.edu (David Choweller) writes:


>In an book review dating from the 60's Gore Vidal claims that
>American troops participated in the genocide of 3 million Filipinos
>at the "turn of the century."  I've never heard of this before.  Did this
>happen, and how widely accepted is this alleged fact?  I don't have the exact
>title of the article because I was just given a photocopy of it, but it's
>a review of a book about West Point.  Vidal spends almost not time reviewing
>the book, but expounds his own theories on how the people at West Point have
>been responsible for building America's "empire" throughout the world.
>--
In addition to the excellent sources quoted in other responses, you
should see the most recent issue of Atlantic magazine, which published
for the first time a book review/essay on this war written by Mark Twain
at the turn of the century.

Vidal is no doubt on a soapbox in the review you mention, but there is
good reason.  There is also a good reason why you've "never heard of
this before."  A _lot_ of material about US imperialism has been
conspicuously missing from American history texts.  You should
definitely read Howard Zinn's book someone else suggested, and also his
most recent book Declarations of Independence.

--Jeff Frane

-- 
gummitch@techbook.COM  Public Access UNIX at (503) 644-8135 (1200/2400) 
"Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe."
                                    --Thomas Jefferson
From: vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Smear campaign
Date: 10 Apr 92 07:24:06 GMT


These anonymous acusers of Brown have no credibility at all. Part of
the rights of the defender as part of the Constitution is the right of
the defenders to face their accusers in a public court.


The fact that these people are hiding behind anonymity under he guise
of 'personal protection' doesn't give their argument one bit of
credibility.


I would like these 'dark people' to open up publicly so Gov. Brown
has the opportunity to defend himself against this garbage.... However,
it sounds alot like B-cpu-like tactics at work....


1-800-426-1112

-Garrett
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship,alt.discrimination,soc.history,sci.research
From: asbestos@nwu.edu (Michael A. Atkinson)
Subject: Re: THE HOLOCAUST STORY:  HOW MUCH IS FALSE?  The Case for Open Debate
Organization: Chaos
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 03:16:14 GMT


(Crap deleted.)

I have a few things to say.

* The Daily Northwestern ran the "article" in question as a paid
advertisement.  

* The Daily, at least, handled it poorly.  The paper is a rag.

* My grandmother (a Jew) got out by the skin of her teeth.  Her entire family
was killed by the Nazis.

* I would encourage anybody that thinks that my grandmother has lied to me
to come to Northwestern and talk to me about it. 


I speak for myself.

Mike
-- 
Michael A. Atkinson | "Why change Bush in the middle of a screw? 
asbestos@nwu.edu    |  Vote for George in '92!"

      A Libertarian, an NRA member, and a firearms owner.
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce)
Subject: "Ralph Winston" hates Jews (WAS: Pete, don't go away mad...)
Keywords: HATE-CRIMES,NAZI,RACIST
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 21:03:50 GMT

In article <msuzio.703528870@irie.ais.org> msuzio@irie.ais.org (Michael Suzio) writes:
>As a final note, Pete - have you ever had any positive responses to your
>propoganda? Has this whole seemingly useless exercise ever netted you one
>convert - one person you could call a friend?

Maybe "Ralph"'s goal is simply to hurt people it hates?

Maybe "Raplh/Pete/George" has *no intention* of making converts via its
hate campaign?

-- Brad

Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker)
Subject: Re: Space and Fusion
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 23:10:28 GMT


In a post here Jim Bowery points out aspects of the space and fusion
research programs that seem designed to fail. He wonders if something
more than ordinary stupidity might be at work here.

Well, as some people here know, I am a political supporter of Lyndon
LaRouche. LaRouche's views on the covert forces at work in society
could well have a bearing on this question.  I'll try to summarize
briefly.

(1) Throughout most of recorded history, there have been two major
opposing viewpoints, represented in the activities of various opposing
elites, which have frequently acted conspiratorially. These are the
"oligarchical" outlook which holds that people are animals, and the 
most talented and best bred of these are born to rule, while the
lower classes are born to serve. Contrasted to this is the "republican
humanist" viewpoint, which holds that people possess the divine
spark of reason which the goal of society is to cultivate.

(2) In general, oligarch oppose technological progress, especially
if it threatens to get "out of control" and elevate the living
standards of whole populations. Educated and prosperous common
people (i.e. the "middle class") have a distressing tendency to
demand and create governments which will operate on THEIR behalf
(i.e. "of the people, by the people, and for the people") which
is a problem for those who believe governments should act in
the interest of the ruling elites.

(3) The issue is confused slightly by those among the oligarchy
who support a limited degree of hiogh technology, run by a
necessary technocratic elite. This is considered to be necessary
to maintain a high level of military and communication technology,
as well as for the ccreature comforts of the oligarchs. They 
would agree, however, that technology should not diffuse to the 
point where it creates "uncontrolled" social changes. From this
point of view, the automobile would be a good example of "uncontrolled"
technology, while television would be an example of controlled
technology.

(4) Particular government science policies should be considered
battlegrounds where a three cornered war is being waged among
those who oppose high technology, those who favor a tightly
controlled technocracy, and those republican (small r) idealists
who would unleash the power of technology to enlighten and 
enrich the people of our nation and of the world.

(5) The application of this viewpoint to the cases of space and
fusion is left as an exercise to the reader.

Hope this helps,
Steve
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.activism
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Where's bARF?
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1992 03:41:00 -0500

 >Oh yeah!  Once he/they figured out that bARF was the wrong alias to use
 >in their postings...they retired bARF to the same B-CPU gas chamber Foxy
 >Roxy awoke to find herself in.  Else it was a mutual suicide pact.
 >One can only dream...
 >
 RS> I don't think so. bARF was making headlines in Illinois for
 RS> growing weeds in his back yard, insisting (I guess) on his
 RS> consitutional right to live like a slob. But "Ralph Winston"
 RS> et al seem to be based in Portland, Oregon. Different Nazis


Ahhh...so there IS more than one vermin CPU Ban-nazi, after all.



... Two wrongs do not make a right: it usually takes three or more.
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy:6263 alt.activism:7548
From: grimm@eecae.ee.msu.edu (Jerry Michael Grimm)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.activism
Subject: Re: Gov't Tries to Destroy Christic Institute for La Penca Bombing Lawsuit
Keywords: Christic Institute, CIA bombing at La Penca
Date: 11 Apr 92 02:15:49 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Michigan State University

jad@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (John DiNardo) writes:


>Sheehan said the appeals court expressly ignored critical evidence
                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>supporting the charges made in Avirgan v. Hull, including the
>murder indictment in Costa Rica of the two key defendants, contra
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>supporters John Hull and Felipe Vidal, for the very crimes with
>which they stood charged by the Institute.


John:

	I really do not mean to be lecturing either you or the Christic
Institute on the American Legal System, but an indictment is not the same
thing as a conviction.  An indictment indicates there is enough evidence to
proceed to a trial, not that the indictee is guilty.  

	And don't give any bulls**t about the fact that this will have to
do because he'll escape trial in Costa Rica somehow.  

	If the Christic institute views an indictment (alleging specific
behavior) as evidenciary, I wonder what other perversion of the legal
system they would like (probably anything conforming to their 
viewpoint).

Mike
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: Where's bARF?
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 17:17:03 GMT

Steve.Rose@f134.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Steve Rose) writes:
> RS> I don't think so. bARF was making headlines in Illinois for
> RS> growing weeds in his back yard, insisting (I guess) on his
> RS> consitutional right to live like a slob. But "Ralph Winston"
> RS> et al seem to be based in Portland, Oregon. Different Nazis

>Ahhh...so there IS more than one vermin CPU Ban-nazi, after all.

I don't recall BARF ever (publically) agreeing with the revisionists
that the Holocaust didn't happen.  He was more concerned with the Jews
who "completely control the world government and media." 
-- 
They can always hurt you more.
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship,alt.discrimination,alt.activism
From: bzs@ussr.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: THE HOAXER PROJECT REPORT (Racist and Anti-Semitic Hoaxes and more!)
Organization: The World
	<1992Apr16.010319.1368@highland.oz.au>
Distribution: world,local
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 19:40:59 GMT


>:    1. Character assassination
>
>Ralph:      Never
>Anti-Ralph: Frequent (Assigning political status where none was given,
>                      accusations of posting under a pseudonym, etc)

You miss the point. It is not character assasination, it is character
euthanasia.

Ralph et al's arguments have been more than sufficiently refuted here
and elsewhere by careful documentation (for example, I have posted the
texts of memos between Nazi officers during the war which casually
describe to each other events they claim never occurred, see the
bottom of this note.)

What would you do with a person who insisted that 2+2=5? Even after
you sat down and showed him in the simplest possible terms that it
must be so?

You would ridicule him, laugh in his face.

That's all you're seeing here, the time has long past to be bothered
offering polite disagreement when they deny information that could
hardly be more factual and continue to post the same, tired lies over
and over again.

Their interest is not in any way the truth.

Don't be fooled, don't be naive. They are cynical liars and
propagandists. They have rights under freedom of speech. So do the
rest of us.

--------------------


"Since December 1941, for example, 97,000 were processed using three
vans, without any faults occuring in the vehicles."

	Dr August Becker on 5 June 1942 to SS-Obersturmbannfuhrer Rauff

"Apart from that I gave orders that all men should stand as far away
as possible from van during the gassings, so that their health would
not be damaged by any escaping gases. I would like to take this
opportunity to draw your attention to the following: Some of the
Kommandos are using their own men to unload the vans after the
gassing. I have made commanders of the Sonderkommandos in question
aware of the enormous psychological and physical damage this work can
do to the men, if not immediately then at a later stage."

	Dr August Becker on 16 May 1942 to SS-Obersturmbannfuherer Rauff

--
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy