From: mdchaney@fractal.ucs.indiana.edu (M Darrin Chaney)
Subject: Re: Computer Science Programs
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:46:32 GMT

In article <1992Aug15.02132.10817@ms.uky.edu> borders@ms.uky.edu (Johnny Borders) writes:
>solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky) writes:
>>Before anybody flames me for extreme opinions in my last post, let me note
>>that I meant to e-mail it and not post it. I didn't want to have to put up
>>with flames. That having been said, flame away.
>
>Well, I don't have a flame, just an addition:
>
>I consider the CS program here at the University of Kentucky the most 
>pitiful excuse for "higher-education" I've ever seen (not that I've seen
>much, mind you, but if it were worse anywhere else, I'd be surprised if they
>were ever taught how to turn on a PC!).
>We have people that walk out of here going: "UNIX? What's that?" and people
>that think technology that was big 10 years ago is still on the cutting
>edge today. I've actually printed envelopes on a NeXT and had a CS person
>say: "WOW! I didn't think these things could do THAT!" <calgon, take me
>away!> 

I went to a college (unnamed) for 2 years (a four year state school) which
had an even worse CS program.  A 400 level computer graphics course used
Microsoft QuickBASIC.  The instructor told how it was so nice because it
compiled the program as you typed it in.

The big semester project was a pie chart (no joke!).  The user could type in
up to 12 labels and values, and we charted them, each with a different color.

I considered adding ray-tracing to be a smart-ass, but it would've been too
slow.  The prof would've been lost on that, anyway.  He couldn't understand
a program that I had written earlier that moved a Pacman around the screen.
It was our next to last assignment, and at his instruction, we had to use
two screens and page between the two.  I did both screens with one single
loop, and he simply couldn't fathom that.  He had some brilliant quote such
as "It works, but I don't know how."

At the time, I was working in the physics department.  There, I worked with
both graphics and image processing.  I was working with such things as 
ray-tracing and Fourier transforms when I took that class.  Luckily, I was
self-motivated.

Anyway, there is an extreme the other way.  The "Scheme only" schools won't
get my praise, either.  I think that learning the theoretical computer
science is nice, but it won't get you a job.  IU seems to have a pretty
good balance.  You learn that stuff, but in your senior year, you take an
intensive study in a "real-world" type thing, such as database application,
or hardware application.  Scheme is the first language that you learn now.
That contrasts with the first school I went to (an engineering school) where
Fortran was the first language.

Sadly, alot of people are trying to push their opinions off on others in
this area.  If I pay a school to educate me in the area of Computer Science,
I expect to be able to get a job when I get out.  If I wanted to become a
professor later, I might have more appreciation of theory, but few people
want to take that direction.

Depending on what you plan to do in the real-world, C is necessary.  Fortran
is still used at alot of lab-type places.  COBOL is, unfortunately, still used
extensively in the business world.  The push to C is on, though.  Also, with
database work, 4GL's are coming up that are easy to learn in a week, but offer
great flexibility, and portability.  And, of course, the military uses ADA.

Dead languages include Pascal and friends.  Lisp and Scheme aren't used much
in the real world.  And, wierd languages such as RPG, PL/I, and BLISS are
pretty much unknown nowadays.

My advice is to avoid extreme universities, unless you want to teach, in
which case you should find something like MIT (which Jason talks about).
In general, if you want a job, go for a more practical approach, but not too
practical :)

	Darrin
-- 

mdchaney@iubacs mdchaney@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu mdchaney@rose.ucs.indiana.edu

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