HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
X-Orig-To: CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 11:58:17 CDT
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      OK... STRIKE ONE...

 Yvette....
 Ya nailed me on that one...
 What is the rule in baseball??? Three strikes and you're outta there?
 ... That means I got two more left...
 I see your point, also... and it's a good one, I might add.
 Hey, I used to date a computer systems analyst!!
 You guys keep HELLACIOUS schedules... you go on my prayer list
 right this very minute! :)
 God Bless you, and keep smilin' !!!
 Theresa / "G"

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:36:00 GMT
From:         Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK
Subject:      Re: "Homophobic? Re-read your Bible"

>From: Bernice Tennant <U1A9A%BITNET.WVNVM@EDU.VT.CC.VTVM2>
>Tom,
>
>    Two wrongs don't make a right.  Homosexual relations are an abomination to
>God.  Murder is sin.  Both are wrong.  Both are in the bible.  Alot of things
>are in the bible.  There is no way you can justify homosexuality by showing
>the sins committed against homosexuals in the name of the bible.  I could sin
>and use my bible as a reason for it but that would not excuse my sin.

I suggest that the original mailing was actually saying that the passages
quoted did not intrinsically mean that homosexual relations were sinful, more
that that was just one way to read them.  i.e. it was questionning if they
were an 'abomination to God'

Not directed personally at Bernice but one or two others ...
I am concerned with the force of the rebuttal this veiw is sustaining.  Must
we disagree in 'flame mode' ?  Is it not valid to discuss the way in which
the bible is interpreted without just accepting the most prominent way ?


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Carol A Long,  					DISCLAIMER - unless otherwise
IT Service,					stated this message contains
Southampton Institute of Higher Education	my opinion...probably only mine
East Park Terrace,
Southampton	SO9 4WW,   England		RELEASE - Repost at will, with
						acknowlegements to author.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Z_STAFF_CL@UK.AC.SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: raffaele@ap542.sniap.mchp.sni.de ()
Subject: Re: Church and Rome
Organization: Siemens-Nixdorf AG
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 10:31:12 GMT

Robert Weiss (psyrobtw@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu) wrote:
: In article <BttJA6.DLr@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps) writes...
: [...]
: 
: >   Sometimes Protestants will also say that the second "rock" Jesus
: >spoke of in the above passage refers to Himself.  This is not the
: >case.  The standard Protestant argument is that in the Greek, the
: >first "Peter" is "Petros," while the second "rock" is "petra".  First
: >of all, when this saying was translated _into_ Greek, it would have
: >been improper to call Peter "Petra," as that is a woman's name.  So
: >the masculine "Peter" was used instead.
: 
: 	I don't know about Protestants, but it seems that the 
: revelation that Peter gave was the rock on which the church was built.
: The rock of revelation...
: 

I agree with Bob,

IMO, it would make nonsense if Jesus would build HIS church on a man 
(imperfect like all men) !
I think He was meaning with "rock" the revelation God gave Peter:
'Jesus is Christ, the Son of the living God !' (sorry, I can't quote
exactly, I have a german bible :-( )

The fact that Jesus is the Son of God is the right, firm and perfect "rock"
to build HIS church.


============================================================================
Victor Raffaele               |e-mail: VICTOR.RAFFAELE@sniap.mchp.sni.de   |
at SNI AG in Munich (Germany) |Tel: +49/89/636-2972  Fax: +49/89/636-45860 |
------------------------------+--------------------------------------------+
"Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God,   |
and there is none else." (Isa. 45:22)   ><>   His name is JESUS !!   <><   |
============================================================================
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: carlson@ab24.larc.nasa.gov (Ann Carlson)
Subject: Re:      Re: homosexuality
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 14:20:22 GMT

Maks,

Your whole answer to Carol and your whole statement about same sex
love hinges on your statement that the Bible clearly calls it sin.
This is simply not so.  I have recently published references and 
several people have published to this group brief explanations of 
why we do not believe this.  This is *not* a case of intentionaly
twisting scripture, and it is *not* a case of ignoring certain parts
of scripture.  Read Boswell, read Mollenkot, read Spong and the
others; talk to Integrity (Episcopal), Dignity (Roman Catholic),
More Light (Presbyterian), Affirmation (Methodist?) and other 
Christian groups who believe that the Bible does not condemn gays
and lesbians or their relationships.  Find out why they believe as
they do, they have good reasons.  Certainly, there are good arguments
for the other point of view, but the Bible is *not* perfectly clear
on this issue.  We need to acknowledge brothers and sisters who 
also struggle with integrity to interpret the Bible and discern the
will of God, even when they reach conclusions which are different from
the ones we hold.  I don't see many gays, lesbians, and bisexuals 
calling the Christians who persecute them non-Christians for holding
different views, but I do see you and Bernice and others doing that
to we who disagree with you.

Ann
-- 



*************************************************      
*Dr. Ann B. Carlson (carlson@ab24.larc.nasa.gov)*       O .
*MS 366                                         *         o  _///_ //
*NASA Langley Research Center                   *          <`)=  _<<
*Hampton, VA 23681-0001                         *             \\\  \\
*************************************************
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 09:56:03 EDT
From:         carol nemec <YA67@FERRIS.BITNET>
Subject:      prayer request

Friends,

We took my daughter to college last Saturday.  Her first year.
I'm holding up okay :-)  but she is having some roommate
problems already.  This was her greatest fear.  Her assigned
roommate wants to share a room with a friend and has asked
Sarah to trade.  Just the fact that she is asking this makes
for complications.  She does not really know Sarah, and how
wonderful she is :-).  They cannot trade for two weeks, so
please pray that whatever happens works out well for Sarah.
The girl she would be moving in with has already had her
boyfriend overnight.  If Sarah refuses to move, I would
assume her roommate would harbor some hard feelings.  Sarah
is in an awkward position either way.

Thanks for your prayers.

Carol Nemec
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"
X-VMS-Cc: CORJB
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1992 17:08:46 -0500
From:         Jason Briggs Cormier <CORJB@RHODES.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: biblical interpretations on homosexuality

Yes, there is for me one absolute, but at this time, only
one and that is God represented in the trinity of the Father,
the Son, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.

Jason
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sun, 23 Aug 1992 00:22:58 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Dear Rome : prove it
              23 Aug 1992 13:33:31 EST from <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>

While we're on the subject:

(of Mary's perpetual virginity -- really, *is* there a technical term
for this?  I don't like this phrase; it sounds so *mechanical*),
I understand that there is also a doctrine declaring Mary to be
entirely without sin (not just a virgin).  Could someone explain
where this came from?  (When did it first appear, who announced it,
from whence is it derived, what is its precise meaning and import--
I know that is a lot, but I really would like to know.)

Thanks.

Love INC,
         --Kerry
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 06:14:47 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Matt. 24
              1 Sep 1992 21:13:00 CDT from <BKCOBB@LIFE.UAMS.EDU>

Dear Brian ;

Study hermeneutics on eschatology in Scripture and you will find that
catyclismic language is used often without a literal event occurring.




Jesse Carnes
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
X-Mailer: QuickMail/SMTP interface.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:50:46 EDT
From:         Leo W <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Scripturette 8/28
X-To:         Christia <christia@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>

"It is true that serving God makes a person very rich, if he is satisfied with
what he has.  When we came into the world, we brought nothing.  And when we
die, we can take nothing out.  So, if we have food and clothes, we will be
satisfied with that.  Those who want to become rich bring temptation to
themselves.  They are caught in a trap.  They begin to want many foolish things
that will hurt them, things that ruin and destroy people.  The love of money
causes all kinds of evil.  Some people have left the true faith because they
want to get more and more money.  But they have caused themselves much sorrow"
(1 Timothy 6:6-10).

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo

Scriptures quoted from the International Children's Bible (ICB), New Century
Version, copyright 1986, 1988 by Word Publishing, Dallas, Texas 75039.  Used by
permission.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 09:33:13 CST
From:         A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Subject:      Prayer Day

Votation for the Prayer Day (Today Friday) final results:

1.- Abortionists               2
2.- Bosnia                     1.5
3.- Somalia                    3.5
4.- Andrew's victims           0

So, let's pray for people in Somalia so that God help them to overcome their
hard situation : Lack of food and peace.

If someone want's to post a prayer to the list it is wellcome.

As you can see I received 6 votes plus mine equals 7. If you like numerology,
I guess this is a good sign.

Topics For next week:

1.- Abortionists
2.- Bosnia
3.- Andrew's victims
4.- Nicaragua's victims


Votes and aditional topics can be sent to

A16905@ITESO


A16905@itesocci.gdl.iteso.mx

Please send your vote by thursday morning.

L E T ' S   P R A Y !

Shalom,
Memo.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 16:44:00 EDT
From:         Richard.Campbell@MVS.UDEL.EDU
Subject:      RE: The "Mary" flame-war: Let's appl
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

 Daniel -- Thanks for your well-thought out post.  It echoes something C.S.
Lewis wrote, which I will post under a different subject heading.
                                             Thanks,  Rich
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1992 19:52:58 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Religion in schools
              22 Aug 1992 15:57:19 EDT from <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>

Angela:

I don't really want to start a fight, but you seem to be laboring
under a misapprehension regarding religion and the public schools.
You say that no one is stopping a student from bringing a Bible
to school, but that in fact is what *is* going on all across America.
Time after time, students are suspended, repreimanded, or even
expelled for doing just that.  I do *not* believe that this is the
fault of the courts, as it is blatantly illegal, as has been determined
over the past 5 years at the Supreme Court level.  Rather, I think the
fault lies in teachers, principals, and school boards overeager to
separate church and state who do not take the time to learn what the
law actually *is* on these issues.  While Christian children have
the right to bring a Bible to school, to pass out Christian literature,
to gather together for prayer in groups before and after school, and
to share their faith with others, verbally and in writing, too many
times the school officials know only that there is a 1962 decision
"banning prayer in schools," and they interpret that as being
a full-scale prohibition of all religious sentiment and all religious
expression.  Generally, if the parents can get a lawyer, the school
will back down.  But many times, the parents cannot afford a lawyer
(no you don't get a free lawyer for civil cases) or are unaware of
such agencies as the American Center for Law and Justice, and they
are afraid of having to fight the ACLU, so they just accept the
school's decision.  In cases where the ACLU can find a friendly
judge to move the decision up the ladder in the state, the
result is a lot of wasted time and effort and eventual relief to the
parents and the students.

You are right that students have those rights; you are wrong in assuming
that no one is attempting to violate them.

Just thought y'all would like to know.

Love INC,
         --Kerry
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: jrussell@unlinfo.unl.edu (john russell)
Subject: Re: question
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 16:34:05 GMT

Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET> writes:

>Hi all:

>I would like to know where the person who posted the Pat Robertson quote
>obtained it.  The reason I ask is that both Time and Newsweek chose
>to print *only* that portion of the piece we have already seen here.
>It seems to me that there is clearly more than a coinicidence here,
>and that Time and Newsweek are (as usual) letting someone else
>do their work for them.

>Thanks.

>Love INC,
>         --Kerry

I think that means me.

I spotted this quote first on rec.humor and then on bit.listserv.
gaynet (posted for different reasons, obviously). I cross-posted it
from the second source (no particular reason for choosing that one) 
because I thought it would inspire some interesting commentary, as it
did. I did see the quote printed in Newsweek later -- I suspect it is
probably the only "newsworthy" (with all that that implies) portion of
the piece it was excerpted from. I would certainly be interested in 
seeing the rest of (or at least more of) the letter or speech it came
from.  Can anyone help me out?

jr

"Tibi gratias agimus quod nihil fumas."

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-VMS-To: IN%"CHRISTIA%ASUACAD.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu"
X-VMS-Cc: B882SA
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 15:00:00 CDT
From:         Sieg A U R I C H <B882SA@UTARLG.UTA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: "Homophobic? Re-read your Bible"
X-To:         CHRISTIA%ASUACAD.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu

Tom,
	Is there anything, in your opinion that the Bible does teach as
absolutely wrong?  Or is it all subject to definition?  What is your
definition of sin?

	I'm just curious to your prospective on your statements.

			Sieg :{>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sat, 29 Aug 1992 15:44:05 CST
From:         "William M. Jordan" <IF20159@LATECH.BITNET>
Subject:      An Encouraging Quotation

Two weeks ago, as I was driving to Houston, I listened to a series of
tapes.  On one of them there was a statement that has been a great
encouragement to me these last few days as I have faced some difficulties
at work.  The tape was by the columnist Cal Thomas.  In his columns
he makes no secret of the point that he comes to issues from an
evangelical Christian perspective.  As such, he is frequently criticized
by others in the media.  On this tape he was asked how he dealt with the
very harsh criticism he has received.  He said that such criticism did not
really bother him, for
     " I have decided from whom I wish to have my ultimate approval."

That statement so struck me, that I pulled over to the side of the road
and wrote it down.  To me, the statement is very significant, for it
points out that we should most care of what God thinks of what we are
doing.  If God approves of our actions, we really do not need to care
what others might think.

That quotation from Cal Thomas reminds me of 3   Bible statements that
bring out similar thoughts.

"You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one
who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world."
                                    I John 4:4

"If God is for us, who can be against us?"
                                    Romans 8:31

"In all these things we are more than conquerors through him who
loved us."
                                    Romans 8:37

In Christ, Bill

William M. Jordan            Voice       (318) 257-4304
Mechanical & Industrial      FAX         (318) 257-2562
     Engineering Dept.       Bitnet      IF20159@latech.bitnet
Louisiana Tech University    Internet    jordan@engr.latech.edu
Ruston, LA 71272
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-VMS-To: IN%"SPSSX-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.spssx-l
Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 11:43:14 -0500
Reply-To:     SK7811R@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU
From:         SK7811R@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU
Subject:      Help with Lisrel 7
Comments: To: SPSSX-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU

HELP!
For those of you who use Lisrel 7:

I am using Lisrel 7 to do some structual equation modeling and am having
trouble with a recurring error message.  This message states:
	Warning: Theta Eps is not positive definite

I have played around some with the way the model is specified (adding or
deleting variables, fixing or freeing paths) and sometimes get the same
warning, other times the Theta Delta matrix or the Psi matrix will not
be positive definite.  The result is that the modification indices, t-values,
residuals, etc. can't be computed, and I assume that the final parameter
estimates are somewhat arbitrary.

My sample size is about 190 subjects, with 23 measured variables (though I
have tried deleting 4 or 5 to see if that helps).  I did get the model to
"run" once without any errors or warnings at all, but when I attempted to
modify the model based on the results in the modification indices, I ended
up getting more warnings that the Theta Eps matrix wasn't positive definite.

Any ideas on why I am getting this message?  Do I have too many variables?
Are there common strategies for dealing with this problem?  Any help would
be greatly appreciated, as there are few, if any, people here at Drake
who are familiar with Lisrel.

Many thanks!

Susan Kashubeck
Drake University
SK7811R@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU
From: cids05@vaxa.strath.ac.uk (Dr Stephen K Tagg)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.spssx-l
Subject: Re: Output from Alscal?
Date: 3 Sep 92 10:36:30 GMT
Organization: Univ of Strathclyde, GLASGOW, SCOTLAND

In article <SPSSX-L%92090214253266@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>, 
BLACK@UBVM.BITNET (Necia A. Black) writes:
> I have a user who is trying to save the output matrix from ALSCAL so they
> can add to it and then run that through PROXIMITIES and CLUSTER.  I can see
> how to read a matrix into ALSCAL but I can't find a way to save the matrix
> created by ALSCAL.  They want an ASCII file (not system file).
> (Actually I can't find a way to save the matrix as a system file or ASCII file)
> The professor maintains he did this, in this order, several years ago with
> SPSS, but we cannot figure out how.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> Thanks,
> 
> Necia A. Black, RN, Ph.D.      Bitnet:    BLACK@UBVM
> 231 Computing Center           Internet:  BLACK@UBVM.CC.Buffalo.EDU
> SUNY-BUFFALO                   FAX:       (716) 645-3081
> Buffalo, New York 14260        Phone:     (716) 645-3572

Do what I have to do all the time with Extracting the table I want from 
means or manova. Cut and paste from the output file.
Note that in SPSS for Windows this isn't quite such a horrible proposition
(or so the sales demo I saw would suggest!)
-- 
Dr Stephen K Tagg                   Bsc in Psychology, PhD in Architecture
Lecturer, Department of Marketing   IT & Stats for Marketing, Consumer Research
Univ of Strathclyde, GLASGOW        Mental Maps, Multidimensional Scaling, CSCW
G4 0RQ, SCOTLAND Tel 041-552-4400x2409 Fax 552 2802 Email s.k.tagg@uk.ac.strath
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.spssx-l
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:07:44 -0400
Reply-To:     "Felicia A. Ferko" <ff12+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>
From:         "Felicia A. Ferko" <ff12+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>
Subject:      combining variables
Comments: To: Multiple recipients of list SPSSX-L
              <SPSSX-L%OHSTVMA.BITNET@psuvm.psu.edu>

Can someone suggest a simple solution to my problem?  (I know there must
be one...)

I have one data file consisting of 154 survey responses.  One of the
questions had respondents list up to three different names of faculty:
last name, first name, and department.  The responses were entered into
a table with different fields for the names/departments: lname1, fname1,
dept1, lname2, fname2, dept2, lname3, fname3, dept3.

I want to end up with a unique list of names that sums the occurrance of
individual names in each of the three fields, rather than having to run
a FREQUENCIES on each of the lname variables and then add them together.



Please respond to me personally, and thanks in advance...

Felicia Ferko
ff12@andrew.cmu.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.spssx-l
Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 08:00:29 EDT
Reply-To:     Thomas=Meehan%NetAd%HSRD@HSRD.SOWO.UNC.EDU
From:         Thomas=Meehan%NetAd%HSRD@HSRD.SOWO.UNC.EDU
Subject:      re: SPSS/PC For Windows
Comments: To: SPSSX-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

I am a refuge from SAS-PC and SPSS for Windows is my first experience with an
SPSS product. Further my use to date has been limited to data manipulation and
simple descriptive statistics.  With that caveat, I am very happy with the
product.

90% of the requirement for coding and memorization of arcane syntax and
language rules have been removed.  When you must code, there is no functional
difference between SPSS for Windows and SPSS/PC.  The mother of all advatages
is its effective use of extended memory.  We can sort and manipulate a 12,000
obs., 500 variable data set at will.  This would have brought down the house
in SAS for PC.  This is no quiche eaters' program, however.  I wouldn't bother
with it, if you are not going to run it on at least 386/33 with 8mb of memory.

The end result of are migration are much happier former MAC users, a much
lower mainframe bill each month and new avenues for innovation through the use
of DDE with other Windows products.


Tom Meehan
Human Services Lab
School of Social Work
UNC at Chapel Hill
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU