HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: claypool@seas.gwu.edu (Hyok H. Lee)
Subject: Re: A koren living in the U.S.
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 04:29:12 GMT


phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi) writes:
: In article <1992Oct04.221916.8377@eng.umd.edu> dskim@eng.umd.edu (Daeshik Kim) writes:
: >	I think this is pretty much same kinda excuse as I can't
: >	get promotion because I'm Korean.
: 
: This could be my remarkable insensitivity.  Or it could be my un-awareness
: of the situation around me.  But, somehow, I never felt any kind of racism
: living in the U.S. (or in Brazil for that matter).  I have always felt I
: have been treated fairly, and when I lose, I have always felt I deserved
: it.
: 
I don't where you lived in the States, but I want to move there.  I was
blatantly tormented by racists until I reached high school when everyone
"matures" and are able to disguise their inner feelings better.  My race
made me painfully conspicuous throughout my childhood and being an 
exceptional student made things even worse.  I, being the only Asian
in school, became the model of what a Chinese is like (or whatever
nationality they decided to assume I was).

Now, what do you suppose happens when these ignorant people grow up?
Probably, some of them experience eye-openning things in college and
find out that they were wrong.  Others keep their biased attitudes.
It is these biased people who continue the glass ceiling.

I think that the glass ceiling does exist today.  When one assumes such
a premise, the next problem is how to detect it.  This is the difficult
part, and many people get in trouble by assuming bias when there isn't.
Yes, racism exists today, but one must not go over board with this conclusion
: so, what is one to do?  This is a great problem and there isn't and
easy answer.  Adding to the problem is that many Koreans are also
racist.

I agree with what you said in the rest of your post, but completely placing
the onus of promotion on the worker without any consideration of the
possibility of bias is not a balanced treatment of the problem.
The only solution is for the person to be totally honest with him/herself
about their work performance and whether a promotion was deserved.

Incoherently,
Hyok Lee

: James Choi
: >	Daeshik Kim	H: (703)273-1517 O: (703) 689-5878
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: taeha@buddle1.kaist.ac.kr (Taeha Park)
Subject: Re: Korea
Organization: KAIST
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 18:10:53 GMT

int177c@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Jae Won) writes:
: 
: Last time I heard anyting about computer prices in Korea, a 486 cost 4000000wons.
: Now, that is about 8000$ Australian and about 6000$ US. I think it has quite
: a large hard disk but still, I have not seen a 486 that cost 8000$ yet.(here
: anyway).
: I do not know if anyone(Hyundai or Trigem) donate those workstations but
: I assure you, many unis don't even have 1 unix machine.(and not even a vms 
: machine).
: ...
: Also, I believe that Korean computers are actually cheaper overseas than it is
: in Korea.. which doesn't really help the country.
: 
: Jae

Well, the situation is changing rapidly. As far as I remember,
the cheapest price for the PC's in Korea is 

	386DX: 1100000 Won
	486SX: 1500000 Won
	486DX: 1700000 Won

including VGA monitor and about 120MB hard disk drive. Because of the price
competition, big companies like Samsung, TriGem and Hyundai lowered the price
up to 50%. Some small companies are falling due to the price competition,
and there are different viewpoints on this phenomenon. A positive view is
that only competitive companies will be left, and the negative one is that 
due to the low price there will be no benefit left for R&D investment for the 
future.

taeha
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: b0k2481@zeus.tamu.edu (KIM, BYUNGSEON)
Subject: Re: Please send me a copy of hangul rom
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 04:48:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.022755.4106@news.acns.nwu.edu>, phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi) writes...

>By the way, no one sent me a copy.  There was a detailed posting that
>illustrated how the mapping was done.  Could the original poster send a
>copy to me, or re-post?  Mr. Goetz may actually pay you for your work. :)
> 
>James Choi


Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: seo@capone.ccsm.uiuc.edu (Jong-Wook Seo)
Subject: Re: Korea
Organization: Microelectronics Lab - Univ. of Illinios
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 15:52:48 GMT

In article<1992Sep24.193036.5053@ecl.psu.edu>, ygh@ecl.psu.edu writes :
>In article <1992Sep23.222119.1831@seas.gwu.edu>, 
>claypool@seas.gwu.edu (Hyok H. Lee) writes:> 
>>> jyoon@tern.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (JOSEPH YOON) writes:
>>> : Well, hello to all you folks again.
>>> : 
>> :  What kind of computers do the Koreans in Korea have?
>>
>>> : Are the characters in english??????????

>> 
>> There are almost no computers in Korea.  Everyone uses an abacus.

>This became an old story. You don't know the recent news.
>I heard that the ENIAC had come to Korea last month.
>A patriotic guy has searched all antique shops in USA, and found one.
>He took it to Korea and received a medal from the government.
>Now, we, Koreans, has an electronic computer.
What about electricity ?
Is ENIAC charcoal powered ?

>I hope this news is helpful to Mr. Joseph Yoon.
I think it is.

>Young George Han

Jong-Wook Seo
From: whang@tamaru.kuee.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Whang Sung-Keun)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Have no need to fear ... was Re: Freedom of Speech
Date: 1 Oct 92 07:42:49 GMT
Distribution: soc.culture.korean
Organization: Dept. of Electr. Eng., Kyoto Univ., Japan


{melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (Calling Dr. Nordstrom ...) writes:
 >       underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) :
 >       > What Chinese-cu parents consider love and fundamental human
 >       > decency is very different--very different--from what Westerners
 >       > (and Japanese) consider love and fundamental human decency.
 >       > Chinese-cu "love" would, in many cases, be considered child
 >       > abuse in this USA.  "locking a kid in a closet for a day, or
 >       > whipping with a belt" or equivalent is considered everyday
 >       > ordinarily behavior in Chinese-cu society.
 >Then how do you explain those of us who grew up in a Chinese family who
 >didn't suffer any of those things? Obviously the actions you've listed
 >cannot be attributed solely to Chinese society.
 >       Melinda
  
 {   As Mr. James Pak (jpak@oakhill.mot.sps.com) pointed out, a behavior or action
does not need to be exercised by everyone in a particular cultural group
in order for that behavior to be considered part of that cultural group.
"whipping with a belt" or equivalent actions is everyday ordinary behavior
in Chinese-cu society. }

Mr,Pak said that  a behavior or actiondoes not need to be exercised by 
everyone in a particular cultural group in order for that behavior to 
be considered part of that cultural group.

I think so,too. But I want to add one more that pointed article.
You will have to get in your mind "Put yourself in one place."

Question:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
(1).   Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota\
;
 |    Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
 |                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota i\
 |n
 | Copyright 1992.                 Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3 | San Jose, California.
 |------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
 |
 --->  Ok, I'll teach you. Seikatsu means Life,and means sometimes lifestyle,too 


     $@!y(J Whang Sung-Keun: whang@toro.kuee.kyoto-u.ac.jp  $@!y(J

                         __|__ |      /  |  ----
                          ( )  |_    /\__| _____|__
                        ___|__ |    /  \ |   |
                              ( )      ( )   ----


--
            $@!y(J $@2+(J $@@9:,(J $@!w(J $@5~ETBg3X9)3XItEE;R9)3X(J$@2J(J  $@ED4]8&(J M$@#1(J $@!y(J

            $@!y(J Whang Sung-Keun: whang@toro.kuee.kyoto-u.ac.jp  $@!y(J
                                                               
                         __|__ |      /  |  ----
                          ( )  |_    /\__| _____|__
                        ___|__ |    /  \ |   |
                              ( )      ( )   ----
                            
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: seo@capone.ccsm.uiuc.edu (Jong-Wook Seo)
Subject: Re: Korea
Organization: Microelectronics Lab - Univ. of Illinios
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 16:35:29 GMT

In article <1992Sep22.152829.4878@ee.ryerson.ca>, 
jyoon@ostrich.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (JOSEPH YOON) writes :

>Were any of you folks here born in Korea?
Yes, I am.

>How is life in Korea?  Is it worth visiting?  
Of course, it is.
Why ?
Why not ?

>I hear that lot's of people die there mainly due to traffic accidents.
>Well, one of my uncles died there while driving his motorcycle on his
>way home...
As far as I know, Korea is ranked the third in the world in the fatal 
traffic accident rate over the number of vehicles.
It may be the first over the population.
(Am I correct ?
Anyway, we have a sort of world record.)

>Are the Koreans there generally friendly?  or hot-tempered?
I think that the above questions must be found out by yourself
through direct experiences.
Because the friendliness in a highly populated urban society with a 
homogeneous cultural background is somewhat different from that in 
America, which is mainly based on less populated multi-racial and 
multi-cultural ones.
Whenever you ask this kind of question to a person who has been brought up 
in Korea, you may get some ideas of extremity.
Either Korea is hell, or Korea is heaven.
Neither of them is really true.

>Hmmmm, I might visit my cousin there one day... when I get the cash.
I strongly recommend you to visit Korea if you really want any answers to 
your questions. 
Korea will answer your questions.

>So how are the folks in Korea?  Nice friendly folks or not?
I hope you meet nice friendly folks in Korea.
However, dont be upset even if you meet the case of not.
I have learned it in America.


Jong-Wook Seo
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi)
Subject: Re: Dual citizenship.
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 01:29:03 GMT


Mr. B. Sean Kim wrote:

>    Dear James, (may I call you this way?)

Sure!  :)

>    The black-Americans couldn't be Caucasians.  Can you?

No.  And I do not intend to pretend either.

>    It will be a long time for them to feel real citizen of this
>    country.  Please don't blame the people who hold small reservation
>    in their heart.  I would reproach Salas for throwing an ugly stone
>    in the calm lake.  I apologize all the slanderous words I have used
>    to you.  Let's go back to "Koreanized English List".

Your apology was not necessary, but is gladly accepted.

>    I will be out of this debate from now on.  I cannot help myself
>    being uncomfortable to continue this.

People have tendency to leave me in the middle of discussion these days.
It is fine with me to switch the topic, but before we do that I would like
to hear your answer this question that I asked several times. (you ignored
all of them so far.)

Question #1

You cried fowl to my mentality.  That is fine.  But I am very curious what
your rule is.  Please state clearly what a model naturalized American (born
in Korea) should have in mind when they apply for the citizenship.  And
also what should these naturalized korean-born Americans are to do when
Korea declares war against the U.S. in the fashion that Japan did in 1940s.
Please do not ignore me this time.  I really want to know.

Question #2

>     You can say this only because you are not a Christian.
>     Please remember, you already changed once.

This is the point I am getting at.  Can you trust any born-again Christian?
It seems to me the only Christian you trust will be those who were born to
it.  Those who change their religion should maintain some humane and moral
contact with their sinful past according to your prinicple.  I wonder what
the deal is all those missionaries running around encouraging people to
change from their native mode to another artificial state.  Do you care to
explain?

There are things that we were given, and there are things that we choose.
Contrary to popular belief, I chose only ONCE.  And never looked back
again.

Question #3

Which oaths can be taken literally, and which oaths can not?  A quick
mental search brings me this short list.  Marriage, Lawyer, Medical Doctor,
Politician, Citizenship, etc.  Which one is the one can people should get
into completely and which one is the one that people have to maintain
humane and natural contact with their previous self?

I expect to hear 3 (three) direct answers (not statements describing how
difficult these questions are) from you.

James Choi
From: tl01@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (TAE LEE)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Help me about Seo-Kang University
Date: 5 Oct 92 19:32:51 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

Would someone with generous soul and familiar with Seo-Kang University send me
an e-mail (or post here) about:

(i) What is the formal English name (Seogang Univ., or Seo-Gang etc)?

(ii) Who is the president, what is his/her mailing address?

(iii) Who is the dean of Engineering College, his/her address and
phone number?

(iv) Also same information about Associate President for University Matters
(probably Gyo-Moo-Cheo-Jang?).


If you only have fragment of the above, it will be fine.
BTW, any idea whether they have e-mail?
How about the system postmaster's email address?


Many thanks in advance.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: andrew@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Andrew Sung Hyun Kim)
Subject: Re: ROH's visit to CHINA
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:27:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.200956.7236@news.cs.indiana.edu> "Suh Jung Yul" <jysuh@moose.cs.indiana.edu> writes:
>>There is no need to go into China bashing...  ROK have not been
>>a model humanitarian nation.  For Korean economic future, this 
>>establishment of relationship will be very critical.  In coming
>>century something more critical to worry about may be 'economic wars'
>>and 'economic imperialism'.  If EOC and such alliances ever come
>>to fruition, Korea will need all the allies it can get.
>
>However, if this potential ally is unsuitable because of her
>outrageous imperial dream, we need to be careful.
>This country tend to be strongly bound by its own past history.
>There has been no fundamental change in the mentality of Chinese
>in relating itself to its neighbors.
>
>>Andrew Sung Hyun Kim
>
>Jung Suh

If you talk about the unstable ally/partner in business venture,
is it not Former Soviet Union more unstable?  But, many companies
such as SamSung is getting into the market there.  Business ventures
require some risks.  Economic ties with China is one of these
'good' risks, I think, and most likely better than Soviet venture.

Historical objections?  Then we should be more weary of Japanese.
Who is the number one trading partner of ROK?  The reality of today
is more important than the past, of course past should be used as
guiding stick, but we cannot live in the past.  

Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: milburn@vision.postech.ac.kr (John Milburn)
Subject: Re: Info about Korea wanted
Reply-To: milburn@vision.postech.ac.kr (John Milburn)
Organization: POSTECH, Pohang, Korea
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 05:17:53 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.165053.28919@siesoft.co.uk> jo@siesoft.co.uk writes:
>My husband is probably going to Korea on a business trip next week, and he'd
>really like some info on the following:
>
>1.  What is the weather like at this time of year ?

Right now, it is cold (10~15) at night and warm (20~30) during the day.
The rain is probably finished.  However, the weather is very changeable
this time of year, so be prepared. I suggest he bring along a light to
medium weight jacket.

>2.  Recommendations of good places to eat in Seoul.

If his spirit is adventurous, its hard to go wrong. Most places
downtown can deal with foreigners. If he is not adventurous, stick to
the hotels or in/around Itaewon. The Tennessee Club in Itaewon is nice
for a light meal (hamburger, french fries, etc) a beer, and a good game
of darts.

>3.  Recommendations of good places to see/visit if he gets the chance to 
>    take a couple of days off while he is there.

If he has the chance, the 'Korea House', near Tong-Dae-Moon, or 'East
Gate', is a nice evening. They serve a very nice buffet dinner,
followed by a show of traditional entertainment. Although it is a
quintessential tourist attraction, it gives a good introductory feeling
of the culture. Also, not a bad show :-)

It is virtually required of all foreign guests to visit Itaewon, a
shopping area catering to foreigners. Good deals on custom made suits,
shirts and leather shoes.  Also sport shoes (both factory seconds and
immitations), leather jackets, and various collectibles.

Kyung-Bok-Kung, downtown near the american embassy is worth a morning
or and afternoon. It is one of the former palaces, and includes museums
and other displays.

John Milburn - Pohang Accelerator Laboratory
Pohang Institute of Science and Technology (POSTECH)
Pohang, Korea
milburn@vision.postech.ac.kr
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: e91au@efd.lth.se (Andre Ung)
Subject: Re: Korea
Organization: Lund Institute of Technology, Sweden
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 12:54:55 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.070453.1468@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> int177c@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Jae J Won) writes:
>In article <1992Sep30.235748.14585@lth.se> e91au@efd.lth.se (Andre Ung) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep27.043533.22799@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> int177c@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Jae Won) writes:
>>>In article <1992Sep26.203408.26146@eng.umd.edu> dskim@eng.umd.edu (Daeshik Kim) writes:
>>>>In article <1992Sep26.113442.23330@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> int177c@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Jae Won) writes:
>>>>>Wow, last time I looked(which was about maybe two months ago, 386 was around
>>>>>two time as expensive as a US system. When I was there in 1992 January..i.e.
>>>>>this Jan, I could not site one 386-sx machine in any of department stores and
>>>>>386 at home was a rare site. 
>>>
>
>[stuff deleted about computer prices]
>
>>>>>I am not saying anything against some institues but some universities don't 
>>>>>even have a stupid VAX machines.
>>>Also, I believe that Korean computers are actually cheaper overseas than it is
>>>in Korea.. which doesn't really help the country.
>>>
>>>Jae
>>>
>>
>>Well..., first (my opinion) is that no computer is smart.., it will be as good
>>as the person who use it...., human brain is still outstanding.  What i know
>
>Indeed, that is very much true. But my point is in the question of productivity.
>In Japan, I heard from a biochem postgrad student, they can do experiments on
>about 100 patients thanks to better equipment when in Australia, they can do
>only 7 or 8. Same with computers. If someone needs to do some number
>crunching calculations, it makes hell of a difference in the time taken to
>perform that stuff...
>
>>from my visit in korea is that most of the PC's is about 2 times as expensive
>>than in Sweden, (an ordinary 486/33, 200 Meg/IDE SVGA/1Meg will cost about
>>$3000 +VAT, in Sweden). 
>>
>>Second, is it possible to tell if a univ. is better than another just bec.
>>the computer equipment?  Well in my Univ. we don't have Terminals at all for
>>the students just workstations. Perhaps not that many, about 150 (just the
>>student net) for the EE,CS students, but I don't think that our Univ. is
>>better/worse than KAIST or any eqv. Of course all the departments have 
>>workstations for at least each of the employee's. Some Mac's and PC's too. 
>>
>>I have perhaps missed the point but, any way.... a computer is just a tool...
>>thats the reality.......
>>
>>Andr
>
>SUMMARY: better equipment, more work done in shorter time, more advancement and
>better technology.
>
>Jae

hmmm.... ever heard of the race between the rabbit and the turtle....., you know 
who won...   :)

Andre'

Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi)
Subject: Korean traditional music
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 03:33:18 GMT

These days I am learning other aspects of the music such as timber,
dynamics, rhythm, tempo, etc.  I am beginning to realize how heavily
popular music depends on only one aspect of music, namely pitch (which
includes harmony).

Anyway, it was in the middle of this learning process that I was asked
about Korean traditional music by my teacher.

So, I told him what I knew.  "It is pentatonic scale based..."

And he said "See, all you tell me is the pitch."  And he went on to play a
short piece in pentatonic scale which did not sound like Korean music.  He
said there is more to it than five notes.  I agree.

But what is it?  At the first note, I can feel that it is Korean
tranditional music (kung ak).  So, I guess it is the timber.  I hope this
triggers a useful discussion on the topic.  Any info on this will be very
useful for me.  I will save them and use it as a FAQ whenever someone asks
about Korean traditional music.

Those who are in Korea, feel free to post in romanized hangul.  You can use
any method.  I will figure them out and post translation.

And I promise I will not flame anyone on this topic.  :)

James Choi
From: jae@acsu.buffalo.edu (Jaehoon Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Working in Korea- is it worth it?
Date: 30 Sep 92 06:50:05 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci

< jnlee@uucp (John Lee) writes:
<>Here are my impression of Korean working environment from my most recent
<>visits. The first thing that struck me was how smokey the working environment
<>was, every male employee seems to smoke, and often.  As a non smoker this was
<>very hard for me to take. Another thing that also stuck me as odd is people
<>do no have any initiative to take things on and get the job done.  You might
<>expect this type of work attitude in an assembly line but these were very 
<>high level engineers in world class company. Their mode of operation consists
<>of an order from group manager that triggers machine like efficiency that 
<>gets order accomplished, but that all. No personal initiative to define
<>required tasks and take them on.  Of cause this is social structure that
<
<Besides smoking, the work habit as described above is quite startling.  Cares
<to offer an example of such situation since above paragraph might suggest
<something of generalization?  Of course I at least will keep in mind it'll be 
<a personal experience of one person.  Inquiring minds want to know, I guess.

I am working at Korea Telecom Research Center and there isn't anyone
smoking in my office.  More and more companies are enforcing "no smoking"
at working places.  (There are even companies that offer extra money
to non-smokers.)

Jaehoon Lee
Staff Scientist
Korea Telecom Research Center
jae@mhs.kotel.co.kr
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean