HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski)
Subject: Wheel steering on big boats
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 00:53:01 GMT

I spoke with Ted Miles, a historian at the San Francisco
Maritime Museum. He assured me that the steering wheels
on old-time sailing ships had the same polarity as
a Catalina 42 or an Oldsmobile Delta 88. He seemed 
like a nice guy, but he'd never heard of rec.boats.

The Museum has the original steering gear from a steel
square-rigger on display. It's a working model: visitors
are welcome to spin the wheel. 

Any rec.boaters who visit San Francisco should, of course,
head straight for the Museum, a wonderful place. Less well
known, perhaps, is the Merchant Exchange Building on 
California Street in the financial district. The lobby has a 
number of lovely ship models, including one of the only
5-masted ship ever. Inside the bank are a number of superb
murals by marine artist (forget the first name) Coulter.

Stefan


Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: caf@sequent.com (Frank Collom)
Subject: Sail salvage w/power (brainstorm)
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 18:38:18 GMT

I'm hoping that this will generate some interesting discussions.

Also the inquiry provides the oportunity for windbagers and 
stinkpoters to get their brains going together.

The situation;

There is a a 26' Thunderbird beached near my home on the Columbia.
It has been there about three weeks now and a friend and I have 
tracked down the owner and he is willing to let us salvage the boat.

The boat is in 4' to 6.5' of water depending on tides,  the keel is
toward shore and now pretty much burried into the sand and muck. She's
on her side (mast toward river, bow upstream) at about 30 degrees.

We attempted to turn and drag her into deeper water where she could be
righted using my 29' Criss with twin 350's but couldn' budge her. 

We can't afford pros for the job so we're lookin' for any and all
suggestions.

Please, if you want to contribute, let's do it in a pure brainstorming
manner.  That is any idea is a good idea, it can be built upon but, not
argued.

HOW WOULD YOU GO ABOUT SAVING THIS BOAT?

Thanks for your inputs.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
______     __               __     ______ 
\         /  ) Frank Collom/  )    \      Room for improvement 
 ---- --- \       I.S.     \    --- ----   
  \   \--\ \      Customer  \   \--\ \     is the largest room in the world. 
   \   \  \ \__)    Service  \__)\  \ \
From: torsten@unisql.UUCP (Torsten Weirich)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Rename rec.boats to rec.outdoors.boats
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:25:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: unisql.4618
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <lm8g9bINNjms@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM> dre@ember.Eng.Sun.COM (David R. Emberson) writes:


   rec.outdoors.boats...

   Doesn't that seen a tad redundant?

Apparently not, given Wayne Simpson's preview of Sail Expo...

Torsten Weirich


+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| UniSQL                      Cursed by a fortune cookie:       |
| 9380 Research Blvd.         "Your principles mean more to you |
| Kaleido II, Ste. 200         than any money or success."      |
| Austin, TX 78759               ^                              |
| Tel: (512) 343-7297            |                              |
| Fax: (512) 343-7383            +-the story of my life... ;-(  |
| Email: unisql!weirich@cs.utexas.edu                           |
| Disclaimer:  something about "plausible deniability"...       |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
From: moseley@u.washington.edu (Steve L. Moseley)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Split rec.boats?? and Jet Skis
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 18:57:26 GMT
Organization: Microbial Pathogenesis and Motorcycle Maintenance
NNTP-Posting-Host: microb0.biostat.washington.edu


The news group is too small to split anyhow. And my guess is that the 
majority of participants really do read sail and power posts. I vote for 
keeping it like it is. If it gets like rec.motorcycles and starts pulling in 
200 posts per day, I might change my mind, but I like the variety, and the 
volume is manageable as it is.

Jet skis used to irritate the hell out of me until I tried one. Now I'm 
considering getting one. Anyone have any experience with the new Kawasaki 
high performance sit down model?

Steve
__________________________________________________________________________
Steve L. Moseley                                  moseley@u.washington.edu
Microbiology SC-42                                Phone: (206) 543-2820
University of Washington                          FAX:   (206) 543-8297
Seattle, WA 98195
From: davea@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Dave Angelini)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:09:19 GMT
Subject: Re: SF Boat Show
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA
Newsgroups: rec.boats



   One does not have to wait for the show to get West Marine to honor   
another competitors price. That is fairly obvious from the West Marine
policy. The point is that Defender has real good prices this time of
year and will ship free without sales tax. West Marine will also! Get
the point????


Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: advax@reg.triumf.ca (A.Daviel)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Sail salvage w/power (brainstorm)
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:26:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: reg.triumf.ca
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1993Jan26.100844.63204@cc.usu.edu>, hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch) writes...
>Much deleted
> 
If the inside is full of muck you'll have to move that. Marine archaeologists 
do this kind of thing all the time, I forget exactly how. Probably 
high-pressure hoses and airlifts, etc. (run a big pipe to the surface a 
little ways off, then use compressed air in the bottom end to create an 
underwater vacuum cleaner).
You could try pointing the stern of the power boat at the wreck, setting a 
couple of stern anchors to stop it going anywhere, then using the power boat 
propeller to create a jet of water to generally blast sediment from around 
the wreck (well, you did say brainstorming, it's not necessarily a workable 
solution).

--
 Andrew Daviel, Vancouver, Canada
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: spencer@panix.com (David Spencer)
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats (was Re: Boat Show)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:53:14 GMT

In one of the America's Cup series in the '60's or '70's, one of the
boats had a tiller. Its helmsman (I forget the boat and the helmsman)
was a one-design sailor who couldn't get the hang of a wheel.

A tiller gives a lot more immediate, sensitive and (IMO) logical
tactile feedback.  For example, if you actually have to hold onto the
extension (as opposed to cradling it loosely) in any Bruce
Kirby-designed boat, it's time to hike like hell or spill wind. And
feedback across a flat plane or along a straight line (the extension)
is a lot easier for me to read than feedback around the perimeter of a
circle.

Of course, it's hard for me to think about a boat that you sail
standing up ...

dhs   spencer@panix.com
From: guglielmetti@elia.epfl.ch (Philippe Guglielmetti)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: charter sailing in greece or turkey
Date: 28 Jan 93 16:15:47 GMT
Organization: IA-DME-EPFL
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d11
X-XXMessage-ID: <A78DC70113017B20@iamace9.epfl.ch>
X-XXDate: Thu, 28 Jan 93 17:23:13 GMT

In article <1jqialINNdk6@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> Rock Pfotenhauer,
rock@cse.ucsc.edu writes:
>I'd be grateful for any recommendations. In particular I am hoping for
>advice on whether bareboat is advisable given my experience, places we
>might go to or contact to find inexpensive charters, accounts of other
>people's experiences doing this.

Hi!
Sunsail is fine, but not really cheap. The boats are "first hand" and
well maintained. I rented an Oceanis 390 from Marmaris (Turkey) and
sailed along the beautiful coast there. It's fine and not difficult (no
tides, no currents) but the wind (I just forgot its name at the
moment...) can be strong (6-7 Beaufort) for weeks. I plan to go in the
greek islands next year. Note that a kind of driving license is required
to rent boats above a certain size in Greece as far as I know. I don't
have much more details about the min. size of the boats and the way to
obtain this license but I know that my swiss license is accepted.
Have a nice time there!

Ph. Guglielmetti
From: dick@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Dick Lucas)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:29:33 GMT
Subject: Re: Give me some Ideas!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA
Newsgroups: rec.boats

I couldn't get my wife or daughter to agree with me on any of the names I 
proposed which included either of their names.  They didn't like any of the
other names proposed until we finally settled on...INDECISION...

Dick Lucas
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Sail salvage w/power (brainstorm)
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:53:51 GMT
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: euclid.cs.brown.edu

In article <93027.37787.L629159@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM> L629159@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
>      hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch)unfortunately writes in part:
>
>the engines being low on the power curve.  The again you might give yourself
>about 100' of slack and take a run at it.  :^)
>
>Warning:  Do not attempt this using an actual boat and line in water.
>Imagine for a moment the effect of the rope breaking while under the
>amount of tension you might readily be assumed to generate.  Imagination
>is safe.  If you really try it, you may be having to imagine how to
>reconnect the parts of your body.
>
>Al Moore



Actually, this is an ideal application for something like Kevlar line (or
better still, carbon-fiber line). Basically, if you take a line and apply
tension, the amount of energy you store in it (and hence the amount it can
release later) is related to how much it stretches. This means that very
low-stretch line cannot snap back very far. I'm told that if you apply lots and
lots of tension to carbon fiber, you can break it, whereupon it sags downwards
rather than whipping back towards its ends. Amazing, but I believe it it
true. Still, I'd rather not be the one trying it. And I'd *never* do this with
nylon line, or even low-stretch dacron. 

-John
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: wwalker@qualcomm.com (Bill Walker)
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats (was Re: Boat Show)
Followup-To: rec.boats
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 23:37:19 GMT

In article <4620@unisql.UUCP>, torsten@unisql.UUCP (Torsten Weirich) wrote:
[quote of John Hughes' article about occasional use of the emergency tiller
deleted]
> Or worse, it breaks!  This reminds me of the time I had borrowed a friend's
> Laser.  I was hiked out and flying along at a pretty good clip when
> the tiller extension came off in my hand.  About this time, one
> of those river freighters (I was on the river Weser near my home
> town of Bremen, Germany) rounded the bend and was headed in my direction.
> I panicked momentarily and dropped the tiller extension.  I managed to
> get myself all the way back in the boat and get out of the way
> with little room to spare.  For anyone not familiar with these ships,
> they can be as long as a football field and are about as manueverable
> as a car on a solid sheet of ice.  
> 
> Now I spend a little more time getting aquainted with equipment that's
> not mine before I use it.
> 
> Torsten Weirich
> 
[10-line .sig deleted :-) ]

A similar failure was the cause of my only experience with MOB.  My wife
and I were out with a friend on his Hobie 18 on Mission Bay.  There we
were, flying a hull a little, cruising along, when the tiller extension let
go and my wife and I suddenly found ourselves alone.  I discovered that
it's possible to sail a Hobie without the tiller extension, but it sure
isn't comfortable.  You have to lean wayyyy back to reach the short tillers
or the crossbar.  We sailed back and picked up my friend, who still had the
extension in his hand (but, of course, he didn't have a freighter bearing
down on him).

----------
Bill Walker - WWalker@qualcomm.com - QUALCOMM, Inc., San Diego, CA
All opinions expressed are mine, and do not reflect those of my employer.
"First thing we do, we kill all the lawyers." - Shakespeare
From: billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Courington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Books on Hull Design
Date: 27 Jan 1993 02:15:20 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: sextant

In article I96@bcstec.ca.boeing.com, mtw8527@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Mike Wallach) writes:
> I'm trying to find a good book that talks about
> technical aspects of Hull design and boat design`
> in general.  Something that addresses things
> like reasons/benefits/tradeoffs for different types
> of hull designs, etc.
> I don't want it to be stale reading(i.e. book full
> of equations that only discusses mathematical solutions)
> Any reccomendations?

I'd start with Dave Gerr's _The Nature of Boats_.  Lively, 
shortish articles on power and sail (you didn't mention which 
interests you), with discussion of the tradeoffs.  (The book 
is about a lot more than hull design.)

BILL




From: jbarnes@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (R. Jim Barnes)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:16:22 GMT
Subject: JETSKI GROUP
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.boats

Is there a jetski notes group out there or are people just placing them in  
rec.boats?
From: rremaley@bcm.tmc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: FOR SAIL 1986 O'DAY 19.2
Date: 27 Jan 1993 14:10:27 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.249.27.175

One owner bought new in Birmingham Ala. in 1986....Always kept in Dry 
Storage when not in use.

Has main and roller furling jib......4 horse johnson....... tilt trailer 
with telescoping tongue...also has anchor, life vest,cushions and canopy.  
  $5500.00 


rremaley@bcm.tmc.edu
From: legacy@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (wayne.m.simpson)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Rhodes' Chesapeake 32'
Summary: A little clarification
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:38:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsj.1993Jan27.183810.10289
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1k638rINN7n5@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes) writes:
>
>One more thing. In profile, she may look like a CD 30, but Alberg designed the
>Cape Dory line in his later years, when he started making more effort to put
>room inside the hull (consumer demand, y'know?). Rhodes tended to make
>somewhat longer and slimmer boats, and the ones I've been aboard have nice
>handling characteristics (although Wayne (I think) tells me that a Rhodes 
>Swiftsure he sailed on had horrible weather helm). Lots depends on the builder,
>but Rhodes also tended to make very solid designs. The Mercer 44 that my dad
>used to have had a flush deck, and was stiff as could be at 20 years old. 


   I don't want to be accused of trashing the Swiftsure (they have an
owners association, and may be commandos for all I know :-) ), so let
me clarify this a bit.
   I have a friend with Swiftsure #1. This is another Rhodes design of
33 feet, with a shoal draft keel/centerboard arrangement drawing only
3 1/2 feet. My friends boat is steered with a tiller, and a darn short
one at that. This boat has a very *heavy* helm, in that it has a shallow
but very wide rudder. Consequently, it takes a lot of force to move the 
tiller when the boat's moving.
   On the day in question, the boat also had a sever weather helm in 
addition to it's normally heavy tiller. I think much of this was due
to the windy conditions, the fact that the centerboard cannot normally
be lowered in shallow Barnegat Bay, a very sloppy reef taken in by the
skipper (resulting in a sail with way too much draft for the conditions),
and rotten sail trim.
   In short, I think the heavy helm is characteristic of the Swiftsure,
but the really abominable weather helm is not. If I were wanting a 
Swiftsure, I would either get one with a wheel (yes, I do find them
appropriate under certain circumstances) or would make room in the 
budget to install one.
   The Swiftsure, by the way, is an excellent boat from the early days
of fiberglass. Very strongly built, with a good offshore interior and
very shoal draft in a boat of this size. Phil Rhodes could really draw
a mean sheer...

Wayne Simpson 
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: scoyle@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Scott Coyle)
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats (was Re: Boat Show)
Reply-To: scoyle@ncsa.uiuc.edu
Followup-To: scoyle@ncsa.uiuc.edu
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:57:52 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.185152.7491@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski) writes:

|> It's easy to understand once you actually try steering a boat with a
|> tiller. Although it's hard to believe, for some idiotic reason the
|> tiller and the boat actually move in opposite directions; in other
|> words, if you push the tiller to the left, the boat turns to the
|> right, or, to put it yet another way, if you point the tiller
towards
|> the place you wish to go to, the boat moves in the OPPOSITE
direction!
|> This unnatural scheme requires considerable mental and physical
|> coordination, and many people (understandably) never get the hang
|> of it. You don't see too many tillers on powerboats, do you? In
|> my experience, sailing is complicated enough as it is. If someone
|> were to invent a simple mechanism that would reverse the effect of
the
|> tiller upon the rudder, I might be tempted to use it. Until then,
|> give me a wheel anytime.
|> 
|> Stefan
|> 

On smaller boats, one tends to hike out on the weather side to
counteract
the heeling of the boat.. Its natural to pull on the tiller to correct
weather helm as you are leaning out.. If you had to push the tiller and
hike out you might resort to using your foot.. I know, you could always
use
a tiller extension, but it would still feel as if you were pushing
yourself
over the side rather than holding yourself in...

If this is so unnatural, who backs your boat down the launch? :-) I
guess none
of this applies for those fortunate enough to have a large cruiser kept
in
a slip...

Scott Coyle - scoyle@ncsa.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: zielke@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke)
Subject: Re: Jet Skis
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory
	<30163@oasys.dt.navy.mil>
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:46:49 GMT

To: 
>  >My good friend's 10 year old sun was *killed* on one in the quiet waters of
>  >Mission Bay, San Diego.

>  Only a matter of time.  Jet ski driver saw a boat over his shoulder
>  passing him and executes his "turn on a dime"... right into the path
>  of a young girl sking behind the boat.  She hit the jet ski directly
>  broadside and was thrown well into the air by the impact.  Needless to
>  say, she was injured quite severely and taken to the hospital.  Didn't
>  hear the outcome.

Nearly had a disaster last summer when a jet-ski came real close to the bow
of my boat while anchored.  One false move and his neck would have come into
contact with 300 ft of anchor chain at 30+ knts.  I was half expecting to
have to deal with emergency medical.  He or his survivors probably would
have sued me for having an anchor out :-(  Could have been a real mess...


David Zielke
'Botany Bay'
Cal 35 Hull 006

zielke@fozzie.nrl.navy.mil
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: daved@cortex.physiol.su.oz.au (Dave Davey)
Subject: Re: Great Circles - need help!
Organization: Department of Physiology, University of Sydney, NSW, Australia
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 10:14:08 GMT

In <1993Jan13.163125.404@eua.ericsson.se> mike@erix.ericsson.se (Mike Williams) writes:

>I am interested in obtaining two formula:

>1. To compute the great circle distance between two positions on the
-   globe (given in lat/long)

>2. To compute the course which should be steered to start off along a great
-   circle when travelling from one position to another.

I have a C program that will do this.  It takes fairly flexible input and
calculates rhumb line or great circle routes, courses, distances etc.
You need yacc to compile it.  Let me know if you are interested.
From: alany@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Alan Yelvington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Multiple Coast Guard Boardings
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:33:49 GMT

Just a little heads up if you have been boarded by
the U.S. Coast Guard in the last six months.  The
boarding officer gave you a form that was a record
of the boarding.  If you get boarded within six
months of the last boarding, show the boarding 
officer the boarding form.  They will usually go
away.  Granted, your last boarding should have
show no violations, but it will help to smooth
things out.

If you have a specific problem with your boarding,
that boarding form is your ticket as far as
complaining.  It has all of the information that
you would need to contact either the Coast Guard
or your Congressman.

Please, remember that the boarding party is not
there to be hostile.  They know that you are being
inconvenienced, and want to check you out and leave as
quickly as possible.
From: torsten@unisql.UUCP (Torsten Weirich)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Split rec.boats??
Date: 25 Jan 93 19:21:23 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <ZIELKE.93Jan22163154@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil> zielke@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke) writes:


   2) Swinging on the hook in a semi-exposed harbor, three jet-skis come
      screaming by.  One astern, two off the bow.  I guess they were not used
      to 300 foot of chain, one cut my bow pretty tight and nearly got pulled
      off the ski!  Thought I was going to have to rescue him...  

   We all share the water.  We can share the enjoyment here...

Agreed.

(Putting on my asbestos flame suit)...just goes to show, the less expensive
boating becomes, the less people are willing to invest the time
to get educated.  Seriously, I believe they ought to require you to
take a boater's safety course BEFORE you get to drive your boat, or prove
that you've taken one.


Torsten Weirich

+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| UniSQL                      Cursed by a fortune cookie:       |
| 9380 Research Blvd.         "Your principles mean more to you |
| Kaleido II, Ste. 200         than any money or success."      |
| Austin, TX 78759               ^                              |
| Tel: (512) 343-7297            |                              |
| Fax: (512) 343-7383            +-the story of my life... ;-(  |
| Email: unisql!weirich@cs.utexas.edu                           |
| Disclaimer:  something about "plausible deniability"...       |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: fallavol@fred.nas.nasa.gov (Michael A. Fallavollita)
Subject: Good book on Radio equipment for cruising sailors?
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 17:08:57 GMT
Distribution: usa

I'd be interested to know if anyone has come across a good book that has
a complete discussion of radio equipment, coverage, information services,
licensing and usage for the cruising sailor.

We have just recently bought our first boat, and are looking about 4 years
into the future when we hope to have a 40 footer and no debts so we can
take off for a few years.

Thanks as always.

Mike Fallavollita [fallavol@corvus.arc.nasa.gov]
Catalina 25 #3093 Pete's Harbor, RC
From: ber@otter.hpl.hp.com (Brenda Romans)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:58:26 GMT
Subject: Re: Somebody in Europe reading?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.