HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: betsyp@apollo.hp.com (Betsy Perry)
Subject: Re: Asprin's "Myth" books
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:03:45 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

>|> Asprin has claimed, I think, that the first Myth book is one of the first
>|> light/caricature fantasy. Does anybody know if that is correct?

It depends on whether he's claiming to be the first parodist of
fantasy conventions or the first writer of light fantasy.  In either
case, he's wrong; two obvious counterexamples are the
National Lampoon *Bored of the Rings* and Randall Garrett's Lord
Darcy series.  Not to mention Gordon Dickson's *The Dragon and the 
George*, John Bellairs's *The Face in the Frost*, anything
by James Branch Cabell...

Maybe Asprin meant he was one of the first fantasy parody writers
to be published by Starblaze?
-- 
Betsy Hanes Perry   (note P in userid)     betsyp@apollo.hp.com
Hewlett-Packard Company
"It seems to us that the readers who want fiction to be like life are
considerably outnumbered by those who would like life to be like fiction."
From: gbs@panix.com (Eric Braun)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: What happened to Hogan? (Re: SF writers with consistent themes)
Summary: What did happen to Hogan
Date: 24 Jul 92 01:08:12 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <15JUL199219163159@reg.triumf.ca> advax@reg.triumf.ca (A.Daviel) writes:
>In article <142fdfINNlsp@network.ucsd.edu>, earharta@sdsc.edu writes...
>> 
>>Anyone have any information on what James P. Hogan is up
>>to, now?  The first books I read of his were the Giants
>>books.  After I read those I couldn't get enough of him!
>> 
>>However, after reading _The Proteus Operation_, which I
>>can't recommend enough, he wrote a book about some people
>>being abducted and taken to a space station (I can't remember
>>the title and all of books are packed up. Oh how I hate moving!).
>
>Probably The Endgame Enigma, a techno-thriller set in what would now be an 
>alternate reality (USSR of 1985 some years in the future).
>
>I like his stuff too; I met him briefly at V-Con here a few years ago.
>
>Andrew Daviel, Vancouver BC


Hogan just came out about 6 months ago with a hardcover called ENTOVERSE,
which is the fourth book in what was formerly "the Giants' Trilogy."  Go
figure.  It's good.  The paperback should be out in a few months.

There's also another book scheduled for December of '93 (in hardcover)
that's a sequel to CODE OF THE LIFEMAKER.  Plus lots of his older books
that aren't Giants' novels are still in print (THRICE UPON A TIME, etc.).

--A secret source moonlighting on the GBS account
From: agapow@latcs1.lat.oz.au (paul-michael agapow)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Iain Banks "State of the Art": where can I find it?
Keywords: Iain Banks novella
Date: 23 Jul 92 05:13:16 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

rcharbon@athena.mit.edu (Ray Charbonneau) writes:
> bruce@bnkl01.astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Macintosh) writes:
>|> During one of the earlier iterations of the cyclically regenerating
>|> Iain Banks discussion, I noticed a couple of references to a Culture
>|> short story or novella called "State of The Art." Where did it appear?
>|> Is there any way at all that I, living here in the US, could possibly
>|> find a copy?
>
>I've has it on special order at my bookstore for almost 2 months now....
>They don't guarantee they can get it.

"State of the Art" (the novella) was first released as a book in the small
press (Mark Ziesig, my memory seems to say). Subsequently, it was released
in a collection of the same name in the UK.

IMHO, _SotA_ is a fine story that unfortunately in the end fails to pursue
all ideas and themes it sets out to explore. Still, it's very good and a
very entertaining read.

p-m

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
paul-michael agapow (agapow@latcs1.oz.au) Machine Intelligence Lab, LaTrobe Uni

   Little known facts : the Earth was contacted 70 times by aliens 
   in the 1950s, but this fact has gone unrecorded due to Tokyo being 
   destroyed by mutant monsters 35 times during the same period.
From: bp494@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dana Goldblatt)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: "Buffalo" is SF?  /Hugo nominated/ SF?!
Date: 28 Jul 92 15:15:33 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)



dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann) writes:

Thinking back, I have read and enjoyed stories centered on unlikeable
characters that come to a less than happy ending (Benford's Nigel Walmsly (sp?)
from _In the Ocean of Night_ and _Across the Sea of Suns_ is who I am
thinking of).  I can't say precisely why I can sympathize with Nigel, but
not with Kessel's Wells, but I think that part of it is that there is
nothing left in this Wells to admire with.  As you say, he's a bitter old
man who doesn't understand his lover, the political world around him, or
even the value of his own stories.
...Ultimately, reading a story either puts you in the head of the main
character(s), or at least lets you watch over thier shoulder.  And I can't
imagine that anyone wants to spend time being that close to someone (even
a fictional someone) that they can't find a single redeeming quality in.

my response:
I would suppose that most SF readers would find immediately a redeeming
quality in this character: he wrote some of the earliest SF which is 
still readable today, and also in the story his work brought enjoyment
and thought material to Kessel.  A writer whose personality is 
unlikeable can be redeemed especially in a reader's mind by good
writing.

-dana
From: prestonm@cs.man.ac.uk (Martin Preston (Research Student))
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: BOOKS BY DAVID EDDINGS
Date: 22 Jul 92 15:29:06 GMT

In <10726446.88.711768653@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au> 10726446@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (LAU WAI KUEN) writes:
OB
> Very well, _IMHO_, this is an utterly pathetic series.  Anyone who does not 
>throw up after reading the series must have a stronger stomach, and far less 
>taste, than I do.

Hear hear.

Eddings is laughing all the way to the bank at the wallies who will buy the
same stuff time after time. Once you can understand, he just isn't that
good a writer......three times implies he's a cynical "screw the public
for all they're worth" kind of writer.

Sadly most of the people who read it are under the impression that Eddings 
characters are realistic, and not at all two dimensional. 

Then again these are the same people who think soap operas are realistic 
discussions of issues affecting mankind in the late twentieth century.
"Do you think i should have the blue dress Trish?"


All in my humble opinion of course...

Martin

No doctor its alright, i often foam at the mouth like this....
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Martin Preston,        (preston@uk.ac.mcc.cgu.v2)    |    S A V E        |
|Computer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, |      THE          |
|University of Manchester,                            |    N.U.R.B.       |
|Manchester, U.K., M13 9PL     Phone : 061 275 6095   |                   |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: yarvin@highlite.uucp (Curtis Yarvin)
Subject: Re: BOOKS BY DAVID EDDINGS
Organization: Gotham Communications Research
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 06:25:54 GMT

In article <5131@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:
>>
>> And Heinlein?  I'm not the first to notice that Heinlein drew
>> from a three-bit character palette, and I wouldn't be the first
>> to call his female characters "men with tits."  This fight has
>> been fought already, and there's no reason to refight it.  Suffice
>> it to say that I'm right and you're not.
>
>Gee, I'm glad you're such an expert on this.  Heinlein has created
>a number of good characters.

Let me put it more clearly, for the cutesy-metaphor-impaired:  Yes,
Heinlein did create a number of good characters.  The number, alas,
can be counted on one's fingers, without recourse to binary.  Heinlein
knew a good character when he invented one, and discovered the joys
of sustainable recycling long before it became fashionable.

c
From: kcr@rushforth.Eng.Sun.COM (Kevin Rushforth)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: "Buffalo" is SF? /Hugo nominated/ SF?!
Date: 28 Jul 1992 16:17:45 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: rushforth

[I hope this makes it out...I just switched from "rn" to "nn"]

dstein@rhea.math.ucla.edu (David Stein) writes:

>In article <1992Jul26.193023.20522@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>,
>dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann) writes:
>|> 2. I found this story disappointing.  Kessel does a reasonable job
>|>    of portraying believable characters, but... what's the point?
>
>      Number of them.  First, it gave me an insight into it's characters, 
>      including Kessel the author.  Second, it brought an era 
>      (the Depression) closer to my understanding when it was viewed 
>      from the past (Wells), the present (Kessel's farther), and the 
>      future (Kessel himself).  Third, it was a pretty well told story, 
>      which used actual people (Wells, Kessels, even Ellington) in 
>      imaginary situations meaningfully and with restraint.

I found "Buffalo" to be self-indulgent and boring.  About half way
through the story I could hardly wait for it to end.  A pity, because
it was well-written -- it just didn't interest me in the least.

>      I think the story was the best of the seven nominated, though
>      "Dog's Life" and "One Perfect Morning, With Jackals" were well
>      written too.       

Different strokes, I guess.  I felt that "Buffalo" was the worst of the
seven nominated stories with "Dog's Life" being next worst (although it
was, at least, enjoyable).  I did like "One Perfect Morning, With
Jackals", although I felt that Connie Willis's "In the Late Cretaceous"
was slightly better.

-- 
Kevin C. Rushforth                 | "If winning is not important,
Sun Microsystems                   |  then commander, why keep score?"
                                   |              - Lt. Worf
INET: kcr@Eng.Sun.COM              |
UUCP: <the-backbone>!sun!eng!kcr   |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine)
Subject: Re: Brain size (was Re: the "cause" of homosexuality)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 19:59:35 GMT

hillyard@msc.cornell.edu writes:

>From article <BruMts.JwE@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, by levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine):


>> 
>> There may very well be some statistical differences between the
>> sexes, but I don't think you've chosen a very strong example...
>[math]

>Math is a very large area of study.  I think there are only a few areas
>where man seem to have an advantage.

>The one that springs to mind is 3d visualization.  Men seem to be naturally
>better at such things as mentally rotating a 3d object.

>Note that I'm certainly not an expert in this area.

>SEH

You have a very good intuition (considering it agrees with mine).

I've noticed my *own* mathematical intuition goes out the window
when geometry enters the picture...
From: swf@teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Brain size
Date: 23 Jul 92 19:33:12 GMT
Reply-To: swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Organization: NCR Teradata Database Business Unit

In article <1992Jul23.112546.22947@walter.bellcore.com> mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch) writes:
|In article <92204.123033AUDMH@ASUACAD.BITNET>, <AUDMH@ASUACAD.BITNET> writes:
||> [Re: Carter[:  The
||> Navy is not in the habit of handing nuclear submarines over to morons.
|
|Yeah, but if he HAD been a moron, what would the Navy have done?  Tell him
|he couldn't have them?   Our system is entirely capable of allowing a
|moron to sit in the Oval Office.

No, you totally *missed* the point.  David was *not* talking about when
he was *President*!  Jimmy had a career *before* his election, and it
just happened to include being *commander* of a navy nuclear submarine.

At that point the Navy certainly had a choice, casheering him was even
a possibility if he were totally incompetent.  So it is clear that the
Navy did think him competent enough to command such a vessel.



-- 
sarima@teradata.com			(formerly tdatirv!sarima)
  or
Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: tm@jyu.fi (Timo Mannikko)
Subject: Niven's Playgrounds of the Mind
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 07:18:41 GMT

Thanks to all who sent me the contents!
(And if you're interested: About 20% is new to me.)

-Timo
From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (jerry cullingford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Fantasy winning Hugos
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:48:50 GMT
Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom.

In article <1992Jul27.135453.89553@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> phs172m@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au (Stephen Harker) writes:
>In article <711701461.F00002@tdkt.kksys.com>, ddb@tdkt.kksys.com (David Dyer-Bennet) writes:
>> For that matter,  McCaffrey's "Weyr Search" won as a
>> novella (tie) in 1968, and the SF underpinnings of that universe
>> hadn't been revealed yet back then.
>
>	Read the story again.  The SF underpinnings were implied though the
>details were not worked out.  I think the SF background was given in a
>short paragraph introduction.

True, but the novella would probably have worked just as well without the
introduction - which probably goes to show that the dividing line between
"Science Fiction" and "Fantasy" is often just in the readers mind -
and there are a number of examples (like, I think, Poul Andersons' Queen of
Air and Darkness - it's some time since I read it - ) where a story that
starts out looking like fantasy ends up with a science fiction explanation.



-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+     |
| Jerry Cullingford  #include <std.disclaimer>     +44 442 230000 |   ,-|--
| jc@crosfield.co.uk (was jc@cel.co.uk) or jc@cel.uucp      x3868 |   \_|__
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+ \___/
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton)
Subject: Rewarding the also-rans in the Hugos
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 07:45:57 GMT

Thinking about the recent discussion concerning what happens when then
are two great books in one year and how to deal with it, I thought of
one thing we can do.

Does somebody have a complete summary of Hugo voting?  In particular,
a list of stories that came 2nd, or a close 3rd, particularly in
years when the #1 story was particularly dominant.   (After all,
"I lost to Neuromancer" isn't a bad epitath.)

If we took that list we could hold our own vote.  Probably the
best 2 or 3 of the Hugo also-rans would be novels that themselves
deserve the recognition of history.

Also, how did the ties happen in the years that they happened.  Dune and
Conrad tied for best novel -- was this a literal tie with an equal
number of votes or did the concom declare a tie because it was close and
both were great?  (Though history seems to have treated Herbert's better than
Zelazny's)
-- 
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: eam3@po.CWRU.Edu (Eric A. Meyer)
Subject: Re: Beyond the Fall of Night
Reply-To: eam3@po.CWRU.Edu (Eric A. Meyer)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 14:37:38 GMT


In a previous article, chris@MorningStar.Com (Chris Miller) says:

>In order to keep this spoiler-free,  I will only say that I found the 
>First part of BtFoN to be more-or-less straightforward "hard" sf.

   That's because (as has been pointed out) it's the word-for-word
reprint of "Against the Fall of Night," which was one of the first
Clarke books I ever read.  (Fortunately, the other was the original
"Rama".)


>The Second part, however, was really off the deep end.  It reminded me of
>_Childhood's End_ and some other Clarke work. 

   That was Benford going off the deep end all by his lonesome.  I wish
he'd stayed there and not sent us the report.
   Interesting ideas with a massive scope made confusingly uninteresting.
It beats me how Benford managed it, but he took all of these really neat
things and presented them in such a way that I kept muttering to myself,
"Who cares?"  Besides, unless I missed something explanatory, he commits
a major error.  There is a reference to the fact that the Moon has an
atmosphere with some sort of permeable membrane to hold it in (I think). 
In the first part, it had been millenia since the Moon had been destroyed
in order to keep it from smacking into the Earth...
   Oh well.

		-EMeyer

-- 
"Unstable condition--a symptom of life       | Eric A. Meyer (eam3@po.CWRU.edu)
 In mental and environmental change          |  Alumnus,  Beta Nu of Theta Chi
 Atmospheric disturbance--the feverish flux  |---------------------------------
 Of human interface and interchange-"  -N.P. |    "What do you think, sirs?"
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:10251 rec.arts.sf.science:2353
From: swf@teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: Restricted breeding (was Re: The Moat around God's Eye)
Date: 26 Jul 92 18:22:31 GMT
Reply-To: swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Organization: NCR Teradata Database Business Unit

In article <1992Jul25.102521.10398@techbook.com> szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) writes:
|In article <726@tdat.teradata.COM> swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen) writes:
|
|>If there is a crash, then *everyones* offspring are at risk,
|
|But each individual offspring is at equal risk.  The rabbit which had
|10 bunnies, perhaps helping to cause the crash, will have 10 times
|the chance of offspring surviving the crash than the rabbit which,

Not necessarily true.  As long as each parent has about the same territory,
than the one with the larger litter during times of shortage will most 
likely lose *all* of them, but the one with the smaller litter will succeed
in raising a few. (Remember, with equal parental territories, essentially
the same amount of resources must be allocated amoung the whole set of young
- this is why most animals have a variable clutch size strategy, often
accomplished by favoring one child, so that in times of trouble that
one can be kept alive, by sacrificing the others).


An interesting for instance - in humans starvation surpresses ovulation.
Thus reproductive rates are kept in line with available resources.
|in a fit of ecological correctness :-), restricted itself to one
|offspring.  Genes for "ecological correctness" will be eliminated.
|
|
|-- 
|szabo@techbook.COM  Public Access User --- Not affiliated with TECHbooks
|Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 644-8135 (1200/2400, N81) 


-- 
sarima@teradata.com			(formerly tdatirv!sarima)
  or
Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
Organization: Graduate School of Industrial Administr., Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:29:02 -0400 
From: Bill Thomas <bt16+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Hyperion covers


This has probably been kicked around before, but...

I'm about halfway through the first Hyperion novel and I've noticed
something really irritating. The artist who did the covers for the two
paperbacks represented the Shrike as having TWO arms, rather than FOUR.
The pilgrims' descriptions of the Shrike so far all include references
to its four arms. Maybe something happens later in the books that causes
the Shrike to lose two of its arms -- but that seems very unlikely,
given the creature's apparent indestructibility. It seems strange that
the artist read enough of the book to give a fair representation of the
Shrike in every respect except this one -- and it's a pretty obvious
one.
From: oliver@bodie.cs.unc.edu (Bill Oliver)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Brain size (was Re: the "cause" of homosexuality)
Date: 22 Jul 92 14:22:49 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

In article <doom.711461436@elaine36.Stanford.EDU> doom@leland.Stanford.EDU (Joseph Brenner) writes:
>ojvind@renoir.cns.caltech.edu (Ojvind Bernander) writes:
>
>>There _are_ many anatomical differences between races and between sexes,
>>if you take an average.  For example,  men are bigger than women.
>
>Are you sure about this one?  In _the Jewell-Hinged Jaw_,
>Samuel R. Delany claims that this is essentially a myth.
>The harder you work at avoiding selection biases, the closer
>the average height of men and women get.  You have the
>impression that women are shorter for various reasons...
>couples tend to pair up with men taller than women, so you
>always *see* them this way...


Mr. Delaney is wrong.  Statistical analyses and tables of physical 
anthropologic measures are not made by watching couples pass in front of
one's table at a restaurant.  One cannot deny physical reality simply
because it is politically incorrect. 


Bill Oliver
From: tedk@jpl.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Ted Ko)
Subject: Science Fiction Book Club
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 13:27:05 GMT

Ok, I guess I should offer humble apologies for the post about reading the
rec.arts.sf.misc message.  Being relatively new here, I thought the message
numbers were globally assigned tags and that most people use some kind of
software which has a search capability.

The message was a general info message to be read by people new to the sf
groups.  Among other things it noted which threads had been gone over again
again including SF Book Club.  Not being totally sure of the capabilities
of my software I don't know how to retrieve and include the article.  It 
summarized:
(I think)

1) The prices are a good deal except for shipping and the quality isn't so hot.
2) The mandatory return cards are a real pain
3) You can get cards you don't have to return

I don't remember what it said about selection but it pretty much took care
of the entire discussion.

<--The-Dark-Elf-<<<