HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: Nov 3rd NOVA on pyramids
Date: 19 Nov 92 16:26:46 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

In article <1992Nov19.044323.11867@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> mls@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (mike.siemon) writes:
>In article <1992Nov18.151410.28513@digi.lonestar.org>, gpalo@digi.lonestar.org
>(Gerry Palo) writes:
>
>	[unfortunately quoting my whole fucking article ... ]
>
>> >	2.6 * 10^6 blocks / 201618 hours = 12.9 blocks/hour
>> >
>> >throughout the whole bloody reign of Khufu.
>
>> Interesting numbers.  One small point.  There is not a shred of
>> evidence that Khufu's reign was bloody.  That it must have been
>
>Umm... "bloody" is an English idiomatic usage, originating from
>"by our Lady."  I do not think the expression means what you think
>it means. :-)
>
>As to evidence, we *do* have a shred testifying to Cheops as tyrant --
>namely the tradition recounted to Herodotos by his Egyptian sources.
>This is terrily late, and I wouldn't put much weight on it, but it is
>a hell of a lot more than we know about him from any *contemporary*
>sources.  Given the long run of pyramid mania, we need not postulate
>slave-driving and misery in their construction, but that whole issue
>is a red herring anyway.
>
>You continue to show signs of being a crank.
>-- 
>Michael L. Siemon		   "Oh, stand, stand at the window,
>					As the tears scald and start;
>mls@usl.com			   You shall love your crooked neighbor
>standard disclaimer			With your crooked heart."

Odds bodkins, I stand corrected. By the time that Herodotus wrote both 
the Egyptians and the Greeks were even less capable of building the pyramids
than we would be today.  The Greeks themselves based their civilization 
on slave labor. It is not surprising that Herodotus, and perhaps tradi-
tion from some generations previous, would have come to that conclusion
about Cheops's and Khefren's and the other pyramids.

You, sir, continue show signs of being an intellectual snob.  Can we 
keep the personal commentary out of it and stick to the subject?  There
are cranks and fools on both sides of this topic, as well as reasonable
human beings with differing ideas and viewpoints.  Flame wars about who
is and isn't a a crank (and, I confess, a snob), are most definitely
red herrings.  I offer the hand of peace.

Gerry Palo (e-mail to 73237.2006@compuserve.com)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: tvorst@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Tommy Che Vorst)
Subject: Paleontology
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 03:08:52 GMT

Does anybody out there know if there's a paleontology / dinosaurs
newsgroup around?  Please let me know (post or email) if you find anything.

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
  Tommy ( Yogi )                              Dept. of English, UofM
                (the REAL UofM - nyaaaah Vid! (Minn.)) 
                     email:  tvorst@ccu.umanitoba.ca  
            ....residences in Canada, France, and Holland.
                       "YAAH! DEATH TO OATMEAL!"
                   Remember: it's just my opinion.
 +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ 


 

Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: jfb@draco.macsch.com (John Baskette)
Subject: Re: Religion & Physics Don't Mix
Organization: MacNeal-Schwendler Corp.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 18:14:41 GMT

Subject: Re: Religion & Physics Don't Mix

In article <1ei90dINNhgs@chnews.intel.com> bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) writes:
>In article <1ei39gINNf3o@chnews.intel.com> bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) writes:
>>won't last a tenth of the 7000 years the Great Pyramid's
>>owned the planet.
>
>Uh-oh.  7000?  I want to say 4500, but that's the
>Iceman's date.
>
>Nuts.  Anyone remember when the GP was completed?

The Great Pyramid was completed about 2650 B.C. by the Phaoroah
Cheops (aka Khufu) in the 4th dynasty of the Old Kingdom.

Your 4500 number is pretty much on the money.

John

Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: rgep@emu.pmms.cam.ac.uk (Richard Pinch)
Subject: Re: Roman Treasure Found
Summary: The British Museum is in London
Organization: Department of Pure Mathematics, University of Cambridge
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 10:37:30 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.091358.27031@reed.edu> 
odlin@reed.edu (Iain Odlin) writes:
>[...]
>                                                                 It has already
>  been dubbed the largest find of its kind in Britain (!!!) and has been put
>  on display in a British Museum (the name of which escapes me -- It's big,
>  though).

The name of the institution is "The British Museum".  It is in London.
It is one of the world's major museums.

Richard Pinch
From: chris@eso.mc.xerox.com (Chris Heiny 73186 - SETA)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: Nov 3rd NOVA on pyramids
Date: 17 Nov 92 00:57:07 GMT
Reply-To: chris@eso.mc.xerox.com
Organization: Xerox Corporation, Webster NY

In article 19782@digi.lonestar.org, gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo) writes:
>.... Such ostentatious burial of 
>Pharaohs was no more a good reason then than it would be today,
>and it was not the reason why they were built (IMO).


Well, then, what was the reason?

				Chris
From: odlin@reed.edu (Iain Odlin)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: Nov 3rd NOVA on pyramids
Date: 19 Nov 92 11:27:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov19.112746.23811
Organization: The Stuffed Animal Trauma Team  (We're Trained Professionals)


>> ...during the whole bloody reign of Khufu...
>
>  ...nothing indicates Khufu's reign was bloody...

  "Bloody" is a swear word, most frequently used in Great Britain.  Replace
  "bloody" with "fucking" in the gentleman's post and all shall be clear.

  Now:  Something I have to get off my chest...

  Gerry:  Put simply, you are one frighteningly ill-informed individual.  Some-
  thing tells me that it would avail me nothing to even attempt to address
  the inaccuracies in your earlier postings about pyramids.  All I ask is that
  you go check out PRIMARY sources about what was found in what pyramid and
  what is *known* (not surmised) about pyramids.  Facts tend to get in the way
  of fantastic theories, so tabloids and tabloid-"scientists" don't use them.
  Neither, apparently, does the gullible public...

  Now, I know you say you don't read "pseudo-scientific" things, but *nothing*
  you have posted indicates anything else.  "No traces of mummies" have ever
  been found?  Never answering a question with more than a vague, "I'll only
  tell you that they're places of initiation, but if I say more... Well, you
  know"???

  Again, I beseech you to actually look up some *facts*.  Chances are slight
  that you will, but I feel I must ask.
-- 
 --------------------------------- Iain Odlin ---------------------------------
                  10 Crosby Street, Level 3, Portland ME 04103
                                 odlin@reed.edu
 ----------------- "The living are just the dead on holiday." -----------------
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: crb7q@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Cameron Randale Bass)
Subject: Re: Pyramids
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:57:27 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.211237.7809@csus.edu> kim@babbage.csus.edu (Kim Conway) writes:
>I was just curious. There has been so much talk in this groups about the
>pyramids lately, has anyone in this group actually been to Egypt to see
>the pyramids and been inside one. It was a great experience I will never
>forget. 

    Yes I have.  What do I win?  Do I get any trading stamps?

    Of course, I don't know if I qualify for the prize 
    since I've only been here one day (and am likely to depart as
    soon as the sci.physics thread that led me here has vanished).

    Seriously, the big ones are truly astonishing. 

                           dale bass
-- 
C. R. Bass                                          crb7q@virginia.edu        
Department of Mechanical, 
     Aerospace and Nuclear Engineering
University of Virginia                              (804) 924-7926
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Subject: Re: The Great Pyramid of Giza
Organization: LLNL
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 01:38:04 GMT

	[On how the technology just didn't exist to build that artifact...]

	I saw some counterevidence on _Nova_ not too long ago, in a
small pyramid built only with technologies available to the original
pyramids' builders.

	I think that someone ought to write a FAQ for this newsgroup
on this subject.
From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: The Great Pyramid of Giza
Date: 23 Nov 92 17:03:23 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes about Umberto Eco and conspiracy
theorists.  [deleted]

Foucault's Pendulum is a novel.  Eco is a "semiologist". He is
also very brilliant, has a definite point of view and can be
devastating when he wants to trash someone.  I like him, especially
The Name of the Rose, up until he pushes his own weltanschauung into
it at the end. But Eco is hardly an appropriate authority for this 
forum, which, IMEO, is not about the psychology of conspiracy freaks.

I would also say that the focus of the debate seems to have less
to do with archaeology than with trying to demonstrate that some
people are crackpots.  I have my own opinions about whether the
alien-conspiracy/ancient space port people are crackpots, but I
don't think that making their psychology the topic of discussion
furthers the advancement of archaeology, unless your goal is
simply to silence the discussion, which I doubt that you will
succeed in doing.

The alien conspiracists have been challenged to come up with more
concrete evidence, if not of the existence of space ports, then
at least evidence that the conventional interpretations are
inadequate to explain the observed remains.

Alien fans, let one among you speak.

Gerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com)
From: ahogg@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: C-14 scholarship
Date: 19 Nov 92 13:21:07 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

 			THE UNIVERSITY OF WAIKATO
                           HAMILTON NEW ZEALAND

                RADIOCARBON DATING RESEARCH SCHOLARSHIP

The University seeks applications for a Scholarship of $NZ6,000 (non-
taxable) tenable in the Radiocarbon Dating Laboratory of the Geochronology
Research Unit.  The appointee shall work towards a D.Phil degree on any
topic which makes significant use of carbon dating techniques.  Subject to
satisfactory progress, the Scholarship will be available for up to three
years.

The applicants should be eligible for a D.Phil degree, by holding a good
Honours or Masters degree. No specific experience of carbon dating is required,
as full training will be given.  The candidate's background should be in
science or archaeology, and experience in practical science would be advantage.

In addition to the Scholarship, the applicant will work as a technical
assistant for 10 hours a week in the Laboratory.  This position is
available for 3 years subject to progress.  The part-time technicians
position will carry a minimum salary of $NZ6,193.00 per annum, based on
Grade 1, step 5 of the Technicians' scale.

Enquiries of an academic nature may be made to Dr Alan G Hogg, Radiocarbon
Dating Laboratory, Geochronology Research Unit, telephone (064) 7 8384278.
Information on the method of application can be obtained from Academic
Staffing, Personnel, University of Waikato, Private Bag 3105, Hamilton, New
Zealand, telephone (064) 7 8562889, Fax (064) 7 8560135.  Applications
quoting reference number A92/77 should reach Academic Staffing, Personnel
by 18 December 1992.

Places for appointees' children may be available in the creche run by the
Campus Creche Society (Inc).  Equal Opportunity is University policy.
From: miller@triton.unm.edu (R.C. Miller)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Haliksa'i journal info
Date: 19 Nov 92 03:04:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.p4lqwbr
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

Hi!

	For anyone who is interested, here is some information on how to
order your copy of Haliksa'i, a student anthropology journal at the
University of New Mexico.  As you'll see from the table of contents
below, contributions come from archaeology, biological anthropology,
biosocial anthropology, ethnology, and biology.

	The price is $10.00.  Send a check or money order to:

		Kristin Henry, Editor
		University of New Mexico
		Department of Anthropology
		Albuquerque, NM  87131

	plus the address you want it to be mailed to.  The price includes
postage and handling.

Haliksa'i: Student Contributions to Anthropology
Volume VIII (Summer 1992)

Extra-Occupational Risk Behaviors Among Hospital Workers
	by Lynne Fullerton

An Evolutionary Approach to HIV: Considering Human Hosts as the Environment
  in which HIV Evolves
	by Kristin Henry

Ritual and Politics in Aesthetic Theory: Implications for Cultural Studies
  and Communications
	by Lisa St. Claire Harvey

Is There Such a Thing as Archaeological Knowledge?  A Critique of
  Empiricism and Idealism
	by Russell Gould

For Theory Bashing in Archaeology
	by Martha Boden

Western Influence and Ethnocentrism in the Interpretation of Hunters
  and Gatherers: An Examination of Northern Algonkian Group Composition,
  Residence and Land Tenure
	by Thomas Morales

Resource Defense and Social Inequality on the Northwest Coast: the Case
  of the Coast Salish
	by Robert Dello-Russo

Ritual Drama and Auto-Ethnographic Texts on Tourism: the Mass and 
  the Foot Race at the Taos Pueblo Feast Day
	by Mary Birkel and Kiara McClean

(Includes index to back issues)

If you have any questions, you ca write to me at miller@triton.unm.edu
and I'll speak to Kristin.

Rebecca Miller

-- 
Becky Miller@triton.unm.edu
All I want is just a little peace of mind, but the angels won't have it.
-Melissa Etheridge
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: kim@babbage.csus.edu (Kim Conway)
Subject: Re: Pyramids
Organization: California State University, Sacramento
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:12:37 GMT

I was just curious. There has been so much talk in this groups about the
pyramids lately, has anyone in this group actually been to Egypt to see
the pyramids and been inside one. It was a great experience I will never
forget. 

Kim.
From: louns@cs.washington.edu (Michael Lounsbery)
Subject: Re: The Great Pyramid of Giza
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 01:05:25 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.014806.18039@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
>
>	And if there ever is a Great Pyramid FAQ, then it should
>discuss some of the fallacies of Pyramidology, like trying to obtain
>numbers of cosmic significance out of it. I'm sure that it has been
>satirized repeatedly by getting similar numbers out of other
>structures; any good ones?

Umberto Eco's "Foucault's Pendulum" ties together practically every crackpot
idea and conspiracy under 1 unified Plan.  There's a section in the middle
where Pyramidiocy is treated.  I believe as a counterexample, one of the
characters develops elaborate significance and prediction based on the
dimensions of an ordinary lamppost.

Michael Lounsbery
louns@cs.washington.edu
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: ckp2n@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Christina Powell)
Subject: Roman Treasure Found
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:56:24 GMT

Does anyone know any more about this?

A hoard of Roman treasure has been found on a farm in Suffolk. It
is thought to have been hidden for some 1600 years and to be
the most significant ever find of its type.

Chris
From: odlin@reed.edu (Iain Odlin)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: The Great Pyramid of Giza
Date: 20 Nov 92 08:55:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov20.085557.26808
Organization: The Stuffed Animal Trauma Team  (We're Trained Professionals)

>In response to Zerxes M. Bhagalia (v064lnev@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu):
>"Next, a fine cement was then run into these joints
>so expertly as to give an even coverage of areas as big as five feet by seven"

  If, as you stated earlier in your article, the blocks fit "exactly" with one
  another (some have even gone so far as to insist you couldn't put a piece
  of paper between two blocks), how in the name of God do you pour cement be-
  tween them?  You couldn't even pour *water* between them.  I don't care how
  fine the cement is...
>"And lastly, though archeologists all consider the pyramid
>to be a tomb, not one corpse has ever been found within the structure, nor is
>there any evidence to indicate that their ever were"

  [Iain silently beats his head against a brick wall.]

  There's plenty of evidence, and it's available to the public.  If you're so
  inclined, you can go look it up as opposed to being spoon-fed misinformation
  based on inaccurate (or no) research from hopefuls or crackpots who cannot
  let go of their alien fetishes.  [A marvellous example is a "scientist"
  who insisted that the blocks of the pyramids were poured in place (using
  some cement unknown to us) because he found a butterfly trapped in one.
  The fact that the blocks are fossil-bearing limestone never entered the pic-
  ture, of course...]

  Now, if I could figure out why I keep bothering to address this "question",
  I'd be money ahead...
-- 
 --------------------------------- Iain Odlin ---------------------------------
                  10 Crosby Street, Level 3, Portland ME 04103
                                 odlin@reed.edu
 ---------------------- Rome didn't fall in a day either ----------------------
From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: Dead Sea Scrolls again
Date: 19 Nov 92 16:04:11 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

Jack F. Love writes, in part,

>I don't know whether there is much interest in continuing this
>discussion, but I am personally quite concerned over the lawsuit
>which is being prosecuted (persecuted?) agains the editorial
>board of BAR over the MMT scroll. I don't want to waste any
>bandwidth if people on the Net are uninterested in this matter,
>so follow up or reply to me personally if you want me to 
>summarize the issues.

Say on.

Gerry Palo (e-mail to 73237.2006@compuserve.com)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: Dead Sea Scrolls again
Date: 18 Nov 1992 19:16:17 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/trn/lib/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu

In article <1992Nov18.151908.28637@digi.lonestar.org> gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo) writes:

>It is certainly a discredit to all concerned that their publication
>should drag out so long.  How can the scholars continue to do this
>without being reduced to utter shame?
>
>Also, what about that fellow who decoded them with a computer program
>that analyzed the concordance.  I thought it was a pretty detailed
>concordance, indicating the exact position of every occurrence of every
>word.  That should at least give some idea of the content.  How many
>of the total documents were included in that concordance?
>Gerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com)

The fellow is Ben Zion Wacholder of the Hebrew Union College in
Cincinnati. (Actually, there is another person whose name escapes
me now who actually did the programming.) I'm not sure whether
this work will ever be anything other than a curiosity since
the photographs became widely available shortly after its 
publication. Wacholder, by the way, is one of the most beloved
faculty of HUC. Regardless of the opinion that one might have
of his scholarship, it is one of the tragedies of Dead Sea Scroll
scholarship that he has been denied access to the sectarian
DSS documents for most of his academic lifetime.

I don't know whether there is much interest in continuing this
discussion, but I am personally quite concerned over the lawsuit
which is being prosecuted (persecuted?) agains the editorial
board of BAR over the MMT scroll. I don't want to waste any
bandwidth if people on the Net are uninterested in this matter,
so follow up or reply to me personally if you want me to 
summarize the issues.

Jack F. Love
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: rivero <rivero@cc.unizar.es>
Subject: Re: Roman Treasure Found
X-Xxdate: Sat, 21 Nov 92 12:56:46 GMT
Organization: fisica teorica UZ
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 11:59:08 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.091358.27031@reed.edu> Iain Odlin, odlin@reed.edu writes:
>  Would that we could all be as lucky as the gentleman who found this trove.
>  His "reward" (finder's fee?) is potentially greater than a million, and he
>  found the hammer he started out looking for, too!

I dont know of British laws, but I suposse that if the archeological
patrimony is protected, then to look for "treasures" will be illegal.

Then, this "clandestino" need some argument to explain what was he 
doing with a detector. It seems obvious when you have heard some
histories on archeological research. 
This finding could  result in a hard hit for Britain archeological areas. 
I would know how have detectors selling increased this week.

Alejandro Rivero
rivero@cc.unizar.es
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: karl_best@novell.com (Karl Best)
Subject: Re: The Great Pyramid of Giza
Organization: Novell, Inc.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:06:26 GMT

In article <Bxyq15.6zL@acsu.buffalo.edu> v064lnev@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu  
(Avatar) writes:

[stuff deleted]

> The pyramid's now almost totally despoiled original outer casing of polished
> limestone (all twenty-one acres of it) was levelled and honed to the standard
> of accuracy normal in modern optical work.  As a geodetic marker and an 

How do we know all this, pray tell? If the outer layer is now gone, how do we  
know it was "levelled (sic) and honed to the standard of accuracy normal in  
modern optical work"? Who was around to determine this standard of accuracy  
before modern optical work was developed?

--
Karl Best                              Far away, across the field
Novell Tech Pubs           ...  __o    the tolling of the iron bell
Provo, Utah  801-429-3428 ..   -\<,    draws the faithful to their knees
kbest@doc.novell.com      ...(_)/(_).  to hear the softly spoken magic spell
karl_best@novell.com                      -Roger Waters, Pink Floyd
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: The Great Pyramid of Giza
From: rcf@netlink.cts.com (Bob Forsythe)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 07:27:51 PST
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo) writes:
> 
> I should point out that one avenue that could keep it on track would be to 
> request hard data from the pyramids themselves.  They can at least throw
> light on the question, not resolved in some peoples minds, of just what was
> required to build the pyramids, what they were built for, and whether or not
> we could do it today if we had or wanted to.
> 
> 

     Ever been to the National Cathedral in D.C.?  As I recall from 
reading about it in National Geographic some years ago, it is largely 
built of stone and kept a lot of stone masons occupied for several years. 
Stone masonry is a dying art because stone is not that easy to work with 
when compared to something like concrete.  That does not suggest, 
however, that modern folks couldn't build in stone if they so desired; 
but why should we?  Your suggestion that natural laws were somehow 
different 4500 years ago borders on the nonsensical.  We can sit here all 
day and discuss how things *might* have been done, but without any 
evidence, I see no reason for it.  There is a great deal of evidence the 
pyramids were used as tombs, including the inscriptions found on the 
pyramid walls.  There is no evidence they were used for initiation rites. 
Consequently, your "science" does take on the air of "psuedo-science".

-Bob

--                    
INTERNET:  rcf@netlink.cts.com (Bob Forsythe)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!rcf
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology