HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.i-amiga
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 10:49:19 EUR
From:         Jaroslav Mechacek <jara@LION.ICS.MUNI.CS>
Subject:      Re: FISH 721-730 CONTENTS???
              "@earn.cvut.cs:I-AMIGA

>
> Quoted from <...unknown> by         Gelson Dias Santos
> <GELSON@VORTEX.UFRGS.BR>:
> >   By the way, this is a Bitnet list, not a "newsgroup"....
> >
>
> 	Well, Sort of. Yes that this is a Mailing List, but it is also a
> Usenet Newsgroup.  Not everyone gets this through the mail like you do.
> I Subscribe to this as a Newsgroup on my System.  I read it with my
> Newsreader which is Tnews.  On Usenet this Newsgroup is known as
> bit.listserv.i-amiga and I subscribed to this by sending mail to my News
> Administrator on UUNET.
>
> Carlos
> Postmaster--
>

What is the difference between Bitnet list and newsgroup ?
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.i-amiga
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 09:30:43 PDT
From:         EBRUC@CATGSG.DNET.HAC.COM
Subject: Re: Bitftp and large files

>> Has anyone received large (1.5M) files from bitftp (NOT uuencoded)?  I heard
>> that the file is broken into smaller pieces and sent that way.  IS this true?
>> If so, what size "pieces" are they broken into.  Also, how would you append
>> the pieces together?
>>                                                         Kevin Shafer
>>                                                         91016@tayloru

>The pieces can be put back together using the amigados or arp JOIN command.
>Be certain to strip away all the mail header info. The syntax of the command
>is something like

>JOIN foobar#? as foobar

Under amigados this can lead to trouble.  Using the wildcard does not sort the
input files and therefore you can not guarantee what order the files will be
joined.  Either you must:

JOIN foobar.01 foobar.02 ... to foobar

or use a unix like shell with cat and do something like

CAT foobar* > foobar

Ed Bruce
edward@hac2arpa.hac.com
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.i-amiga
Date:         Sun, 27 Sep 1992 14:42:00 CST
From:         Lance Tagliapietra <96720919@UCS.UWPLATT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: BridgeBoard

>Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 16:41:00 GMT
>From: "John B. Beck" <0005192416@MCIMAIL.COM>
>Subject: RE: BridgeBoard
>
>Can I run DOS 5.0 and Windows 3.0 or 3.1 on my 286AT bridgeboard? Or
>should I get the newest version Janus?
>
>John B. Beck

I thought you needed at least a 386 to run windows?

-Lance
 ---------------- Amiga - The Wild Side of Power Computing -----------------
 Lance Tagliapietra                       Internet: 96720919@ucs.uwplatt.edu
 P.O. Box 26                                BitNet: 96720919@uwplatt
 Platteville, WI 53818
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Original_To:  BITNET%"vmslsv-l@ubvm"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.vmslsv-l
Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 10:37:00 EST
From:         657781@XAVIER.BITNET
Subject:      request

list
sub vmslsv-l James Niceley
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.vmslsv-l
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 12:05:32 EDT
From:         Hannah Kaufman <HANNAHK@PUCC.BITNET>
Subject:      ebcdic to ascii conversion

I am not a member of this list, so please send any response to me at
hannahk@pucc.princeton.edu

I am trying to ftp a file from an IBM mainframe in CMS with the EBCDIC
character set to VAX/VMS with the DEC multi-national character set.  The
high-order characters are not mapping correctly.

The VAX is running CMU-TEK TCP/IP V 6.5-3.

I understand there is a 'set type ebcdic' unsupported command.
It does not do the job.  Nor does 'set type image'.

Has anyone solved this problem?

Thanks,
Hannah Kaufman
Research Services/CIT
Princeton University
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:17:00 EDT
From:         lcuxlp!lhh@ATT.ATT.COM
Subject:      Re: RCIA readings

>From:         "(Len Howard)" <tas@PEGASUS.COM>
>
>Thank you, Nancy.  I thought that might be the case.  It just seemed
>that the particular interpretation that was submitted of that gospel
>reading was a little different that we had heard...... But each person
>comes from their own life experience.
>
>Shalom,                         Len Howard
>

	Yes, the readings each session are exactly those from Sunday.
	And part of my problem with RCIA is that all we do get
	is everyone's particular interpretation.
	I understand and appreciate that each person comes
	at it from their own life experience, and so I have
	a lot that I can learn from the other people.
	I was just hoping that i would ALSO get a more definitive
	explanation.
	Any recommended books for such a thing since I wont be
	getting it from RCIA ?


				Thanks
				Len (Horn)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: tjrad@iastate.edu (Thomas J Radosevich)
Subject: Re: Altar girls and millstones
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 18:31:01 GMT

In <92280.092523MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:


>     "And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name wel-
>comes me.  But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe
>in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone
>hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."
>(Matthew 18:5-6 NIV)

>I started reading this list when it was gatewayed to usenet, so I
>don't know what was said before, but I haven't seen anyone mention
>the most serious objections to using altar girls in defiance of the
>Church's rules.  The first objection is suggested by the passage I
>quoted from Jesus.  Using altar girls corrupts the children of the
>parish, especially the altar girls themselves.  They are taught by
>example that if they don't like any of the Church's rules they are
>free to ignore them.  And they are taught this by the people who have
>a special responsibility before God to obey God and His Church: the
>pastor who permits the unauthorized use of altar girls and the par-
>ents who permit their children to participate.  That is bad enough,
>but if it is okay to defy the laws of God's Church, why not defy the
>laws of God Himself?  After all, the Church's legislative authority
>comes from God.

>The second objection is that the primary purpose of the Mass is to
>worship God.  How can these people think that God will be pleased by
>worship conducted in deliberate, willful defiance of the rules of the
>Church He founded?

>Marty Helgesen

Are altergirls against the rules?

I don't understand your argument at all.  Are you saying that the Church 
never makes mistakes?  Are we to follow blindly, ignoring our own insights
into church conflicts?   Do God's rules change?  Do priests who face their 
congregation during Mass deliberately and willfully defy God? (Pre Vat. II ref)

I do not agree with people flippently disobeying the Church, but I believe it
is our duty to examine the teachings of the Church and their origins.  While
undertaking this I keep in mind that Church theologians have spent many 
thousands of cumulative years contemplating Church doctrine and thus it weighs
heavily on my decision.  I do believe in objective truths but these are 
interprited by error-prone humans, myself included.  

I don't see anywhere in the bible where it says that the concept of altergirls
is wrong.  Therefore this appears to be an interprited point which the Church
may be right or wrong on.  I have'nt thought much about this point, but I don't
believe your conclusion is based on a sound argument.

Tom Radosevich

     
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: dschenke@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dennis L Schenkel)
Subject: Obedience; Parish Hopping
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 15:55:08 GMT

Jim McIntosh's recent postings challenge me greatly.

I was unaware that, as Jim says:

***
Only members of religious orders take VOWS of obedience. Diocesan priests
do not take vows.
***

I hope someone will correct me if I actually am mistaken, but I have always 
been under the impression that ALL priests promise obedience to their bishop 
and his lawful successors and promise to observe the discipline of chastity.  
In addition, some order priests also promise not to own personal property as 
part of the discipline of poverty while others take vows of stability, 
promising to live out the rest of their natural lives in the monastary where 
they took such vows.  Maybe diocesan priests are not making vows but some other
kind of commitment that is not a vow?  Please enlighten me.  I love to be 
challenged.

Also, Jim recently advised me and another poster to find a different parish to 
attend if we are not comfortable, arguing that we are doing no one any good if 
we are not happy in worshipping with that community.  Also, he argues, it is no
longer a big deal if we choose to attend liturgy outside the parish where we 
live.

As for me, I live in a dorm on campus and have no car.  The Newman Center I 
attend is a 20 minute walk and other parishes are much farther away.  As for 
other Catholics, I was not aware that parish hopping or parish shopping was an 
option for us.  Maybe a canon lawyer on the net could cite something about that
so that I can be better informed about my faith?  Thanks.

Pax
Dennis Schenkel, English Grad Stu, Ohio State
-- 




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Organization: Argus Consulting, Tucson, AZ
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.4 2/2/92)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 09:45:46 -0700
From:         "(Gordon C. Zaft)" <zaft@CARITAS.COTDAZR.ORG>
Subject:      Re: altar girls

On Sep 30,  8:34am, "Nancy M. Piatkowski" wrote:
} Subject: Re: altar girls
} Gordon- thanks for the offer of the document but right now my pastor and
 myself
} (as a member of the parish council) have more to worry about than are we
} defying some document from Rome as we try to figure out how to pay our bills,
} teach our children, feed the hungry, comfort the sick and dying, bury the dead
} and still have the energy to celebrate a joyful liturgy of Word and Eucharist
} for a parish of 3200 families- with at this point two priests.  We are also
} attempting to prepare the parish for lay leadership of prayer and communion
} services without a priest because the day is coming when our diocese will not
} have enough ordained male celibates to staff all the parishes and the people
} need to be prepared-
}-- End of excerpt from "Nancy M. Piatkowski"

Nancy,
	My best wishes for your success in your endeavors; but I think it
would be helpful to reflect on the story of Martha and Mary.... remember
(paraphrased, don't have a Bible with me here) Jesus told Martha that
she was too concerned with earthly things and that Mary had chosen the
better part...
	This isn't a 'reply' per se but a caution for us all (myself
definitely included!) not to get so caught up in corporal works of
mercy as outlined above that you don't have time to sit at the feet
of the Master.

In Christ,

Gordon


--
* Gordon Zaft     Argus Consulting  4500 E. Sunrise #N-6, Tucson, AZ 85718
* zaft@caritas.cotdazr.org | noao.edu!coyote!caritas!zaft
                 Semper fidelis Christi et Vicarii sui.
Vests are to suits as seat-belts are to cars.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 14:45:00 EDT
Comments:     A VAX cluster with VMS V5.5, PMDF V4.0-22, JNET V3.5 & UCX V1.3A
From:         Liz Moreau <EMOREAU@UMASSD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: pre Vat II?

>Careful, careful careful.  For you as a Catholic, you wouldn't want to suggest
>that as a Catholic you could walk away from the Church and not walk away from
>your faith would you?  Don't you mean that local community?

I mean the church.  I'm struggling to hold on.  I feel betrayed and
don't want to be part of something I don't agree with.  To me, by
staying I am condoning activities I don't agree with.  How do I tell
my children ... ok kids you can go to these church sponspored
activities but don't do this or that; its wrong and Mom and Dad don't
agree with it.  What kind of message am I sending my kids?  Right now
my children look on the church with awe.

					Liz Moreau

P.S.  Both my kids go the a Catholic school.  So far, we have not seen
(or heard) of any questionalble activities.
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Organization: Argus Consulting, Tucson, AZ
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.4 2/2/92)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 10:42:05 -0700
From:         "(Gordon C. Zaft)" <zaft@CARITAS.COTDAZR.ORG>
Subject:      misattribution!

I'd just like to point out a misattribution, here... what 'Idbil
Fubar' wrote is in ">", and what's in ">>" is what *I* wrote, *not*
what Brent wrote.

GZ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Sep 29,  2:23pm, "(Idbil Fubar)" wrote:
} Subject: Re: mysticism
} zaft@CARITAS.COTDAZR.ORG ((Gordon C. Zaft)) writes:
}
} >On Sep 25, 11:10am, Brent Winiger wrote:
}
} >	On the other hand, I really was annoyed at the total disregard
} >for, for example, the contemplatives of the Church who spend their lives
} >praying on her behalf.  The author is obviously totally oblivious of
} >such matters...
}
} Folks...Don't be fooled in to thinking that Catholicism is monotheistic.
} It never has been...it never will.  Angels are simply renamed versions of
} pagan gods...placed in to a more 'biblical' format.  Remember the 'Communion
} of Saints'?  The thing that makes biblebelters think that Catholics are
} Satan worshipers?  How do you think the church converted millions of pagans?
} By EXPANDING their relegion...not killing it.
}
} Idbil Fubar
}-- End of excerpt from "(Idbil Fubar)"



--
* Gordon Zaft     Argus Consulting  4500 E. Sunrise #N-6, Tucson, AZ 85718
* zaft@caritas.cotdazr.org | noao.edu!coyote!caritas!zaft
                 Semper fidelis Christi et Vicarii sui.
The famous politician was trying to save both his faces.
From: zaft@CARITAS.COTDAZR.ORG ((Gordon C. Zaft))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Women, etc, still...
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:08:33 GMT
Organization: Argus Consulting, Tucson, AZ
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.4 2/2/92)

On Oct 5,  8:11am, Jim McIntosh wrote:
} Subject: Re: Women, priesthood, and Canon Law
}
} Good point, John. I think it helps to remember that our theology has
} three equally valid sources: the inspired Word of God given to us in the
} Bible; the traditions and writings of the men and women who have come
} before us; and the revelations given to us today by the Holy Spirit.
} Although one or the other of these may be emphasized at different points
} of time, or by different groups, all three are valid sources and need to
} be taken seriously.

	Whoa, there, Jim, as far as I know the only valid sources of
theology are Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.  As for 'modern-day
revelation', they are only binding on those they come to.  If the
Holy Spirit tells you to do something, you are bound by it, but I am
not.  Maybe I've misunderstood you; but we as Catholics do not believe
in on-going revelation (unlike the Mormons, for example).
}
} I think one source of the problem is that Jesus clearly worked to remove
} the distinctions between peoples. Whether the Samaritan woman at the
} well, a leper, a madman, a prostitute or a tax collector Jesus embraced
} and welcomed all. Rather than building walls between people, Jesus sought
} inclusivity.

	Yes, Jesus sought inclusivity, and so does the Church -- that's
why it's called Catholic, after all.  All are welcome.

	What you are trying to do is twist 'inclusivity' into saying
that God calls women to the priesthood.  You haven't shown that.  You
can't assume it.  The body has many parts, and all are needed; but the
eye is NOT the hand, nor the leg the ear.  Everyone has their place in
the Church and in God's plan.  That doesn't mean everyone is called to
be an eye, or an ear.
}-- End of excerpt from Jim McIntosh



--
* Gordon Zaft     Argus Consulting  4500 E. Sunrise #N-6, Tucson, AZ 85718
* zaft@caritas.cotdazr.org | noao.edu!coyote!caritas!zaft
                 Semper fidelis Christi et Vicarii sui.
About the only thing on a farm that has an easy time is the dog.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: collison@scsuc.ctstateu.edu (COLLISON,STEVEN)
Subject: RE: Theotokos
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Southern Connecticut State University - Computer Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 15:47:00 GMT

If I may, let me shed some light on the subject of Theotokos. It's really very 
simple. Jesus Christ is one person (the Second Person of the Trinity) sub-
sisting in two natures - one human, one divine. This is the hypostatic union. 
The relationship between Mary and Jesus is a person to person relationship as
it is with any mother and child. Since the person of Christ is Almighty God 
then Mary can rightly be called the Mother of God. Joseph is simply the 
stepfather of Jesus juridicly not hypostatically.

Steve
Organization: Argus Consulting, Tucson, AZ
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.4 2/2/92)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:57:57 -0700
From:         "(Gordon C. Zaft)" <zaft@CARITAS.COTDAZR.ORG>
Subject:      Re: Apology

On Sep 29,  3:45pm, noao!URSIC@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM wrote:
} Subject: An Apology
}
} OK, I apologize to everyone I offended in my "Women are unclean"
} thread. Sorry Gordon, Sorry T*m, Sorry Leonardus K. Yowono
} I thought about a smiley, but chose to not include it, I guess I
} feel that there really are people out there who think that women
} are inferior to men. My frustration got the better of me. -J.J.
}-- End of excerpt from noao!URSIC@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM

	Apology accepted.... don't worry about it.

	Whatever else you may think of me, please believe that I do
NOT think women are in any way inferior to men.  I'm sorry if I gave
that impression.

GZ

--
* Gordon Zaft     Argus Consulting  4500 E. Sunrise #N-6, Tucson, AZ 85718
* zaft@caritas.cotdazr.org | noao.edu!coyote!caritas!zaft
                 Semper fidelis Christi et Vicarii sui.
What sin has not been committed in the name of efficiency?
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: stevev@miser.uoregon.edu (Steve VanDevender)
Subject: Re: Fatima: warning or prediction
Organization: University of Oregon Chemistry Stores
	<EenpIeS_NU00Rdgo9c@irenaeus.mlo.dec.com>
	<BvM9ow.Hz9@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: 4 Oct 92 19:38:53

In article <BvM9ow.Hz9@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
pol30546@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Peder Larsen) writes:

      I ask myself these questions very often because I have a
   few Jewish and Muslim friends and I worry about them
   constantly.  I pray that they will be given a second chance
   right before the Second Coming.  I also pray for the millions
   of non-Christians in the world - and I struggle with the
   question of whether I should be doing more to help them.  I
   also had a friend who died before his high school graduation
   and he was an atheist.  Is there any hope for him?  This last
   question tormented me for weeks, and I still have no answer.

By the same token I suppose I should be worrying about how
disappointed you're going to be when you die and find out that
it's nothing like what you were expecting -- or just keep living
on into the future past when you think the Millenium is supposed
to happen.

There are much more important issues to think about than what's
going to happen to all those people who happen to have different
religious beliefs than you do.  I would rather see a lot of
people putting their effort into trying to respect other
people's beliefs rather than worrying about how to convert them
to "the truth".
--
Steve VanDevender 	stevev@greylady.uoregon.edu
"Bipedalism--an unrecognized disease affecting over 99% of the population.
Symptoms include lack of traffic sense, slow rate of travel, and the
classic, easily recognized behavior known as walking."
From: gorman@acsu.buffalo.edu (Anne-Marie K. Gorman)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: sex
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:22:54 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <009617E5.96B51D80.11429@swdev.si.com> tillman@SWDEV.SI.COM (Brian Tillman, Smiths Industries, VAX Support, x8425) writes:
>Anne-Marie Gorman (gorman@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU) writes:
>
>>If they had been
>>brought up in a family ... that held, or at
>>least upheld as the norm, Christian standards of behavior, and explained
>>the reasons for them, then discipline now would seem more appropriate.
>>
>>Obviously I think that parents have the huge responsibility to educate
>>their children on this (and other) matters
>
>So, which is it? How can the parent have a huge responsibility to educate when
>you've just implied that they don't hold Christian standards? 


What I meant was this:  Christian parents have the responsibility of 
transmitting to their children Christian standards of behavior, understanding
of sexuality, etc.  Unfortunately, this responsibility seems to have been
abdicated by the parents of many of today's young people, which I believe
is one reason why they (the young people) don't see chastity and
modesty as being an issue.  I'm not trying to blame these parents; they may
not have realized what they were doing (or not doing), and they weren't the 
only influence on their children.

These young people, as they become parents, will be totally unequipped
to fulfill their responsibility of transmitting Christian principles
of sexuality to their children, since they themselves don't have a 
grasp of them.

>   If they do hold
>Christian standards (who defines "christian"?  You?  Me?  The Church?  The
>Bible?  Whose interpretation of the Bible?)  Then they already *are* educating
>their children.  And, since they are good Christians, who are a part of this
>society, there must be a fairly dominant Christian aspect to society already.

I think a quick survey of current movies and songs, and the ad pages
of almost any popular magazine, should be enough to convince you that
our society does not espouse Christian ideals when it comes to sex.
I can't say whether this is because there are not enough good Christians
in society, or because they are not vocal enough, or because they do not
occupy the positions that most heavily influence popular culture, or
what.


-- 
===============================================================================
Anne-Marie K. Gorman          Sophie and Teresa (9 months old) are standing and
Human factors/ergonomics      cruising!  Time flies twice as fast when you're
University at Buffalo         having twice as much fun.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: bobv@spike.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Bob von Buelow)
Subject: Re: Lay leadership of communion services
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:34:04 GMT

URSIC@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM writes:
>This is an interesting concept. Our parish has recently gone down to one
>priest, however we do have a parishioner who is a deacon. Is there any
>chance that the bishop could delegate his authority to a deacon to celebrate
>the Mass. I suppose there is some rule about transubstantiation only occurring
>with a priest or higher, but can this be modified or waivered under special
>circumstances? Or am I blaspheming again:-) - J.J.

Not any chance of a deacon celebrating Eucharist.  If he did, he would be
a priest!  We are a 1 priest parish (1600 families) and are also being
prepared for the no-priest parish.  The deacon can officiate at a communion
service, I've been to them -- pretty much a Mass minus the consecration.

Bob
--
Bob von Buelow             Mars Observer Planning and Sequencing Element
bobv@spike.jpl.nasa.gov          - standard disclaimers apply -
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic