HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Help stop the KKK
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<1992Apr12.010806.8159@amhux2.amherst.edu>
Date: 11 Apr 92 18:57:07

In article <1992Apr12.010806.8159@amhux2.amherst.edu> twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:

   In article <dragon.702962857@camelot> dragon@camelot.bradley.edu (Matthew Korth) writes:
   >In <1992Apr9.231614.17905@ucunix.san.uc.edu> schectr@ucunix.san.uc.edu (ROBB SCHECTER) writes:
   >>**   - We hope to mass enough people to drown out any speeches, and def-   **
   >>**         eat any recruiting efforts the Klan will make.                  **
   >
   >Sorry, you lose me here.  I may, and in fact *do*, disagree with what
   >the KKK has to say.  However, they have a right to say it.  The First
   >Amendment applies to them, too.

   And to me and six hundred other people, if we wish to express our
   views at the very same time in the very same place.  The First
   Amendment prohibits governmental suppression of speech.

   -- 
   ____ Tim Pierce                / "Someone here suggested blue square badges for
   \  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  straights.  Maybe we should try mauve
    \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  heptagons?" - Damian Cugley, on soc.bi

Nope.  Speech aimed at drowning out other people's speech by its loudness
is not protected from the police.  In fact the civil rights act requires
police protection for anyone's speech from being drowned out.

Do you really want shouting down contests to become prevalent?  Remember
that there may be places where the Klan could shout you down.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.censorship,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc
From: bzs@ussr.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: HOLOCAUST MYTHS
Organization: The World
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 23:51:20 GMT


From: pfaust@b-cpu.UUCP (Pete Faust)
>Frank Diary) worth trillions of dollars (to you know whom),
>is hidden from our citizens by the (you know who) controlled
>media like the Crown Jewels, and exposure strictly
>prohibited.

I was in London last week and stopped by the Tower of London to see
the Crown Jewels. I assure you, they are not hidden, they are proudly
on display and millions (literally) view them each year.

But I realize facts will never shake the psychosis from your head.

I was only laughing at your expense.

Great analogy faust...smirk.

>When inevitably these Hoaxes hit the fan, the
>event will be momentous to this century as the bomb, the
>tube, the pill.

In common American English usage what normally "hits the fan" is shit,
``the shit hits the fan'' is the expression. Apt description for your
"hoaxes" (oops, sorry, "Hoaxes", capitalized like one capitalizes
God's name...whacko whacko whacko.)

>Like proverbial pretzels, the Zionists' tangled tales will,
>being brittle, break.

Umm, what proverb do you refer to? I can't think of any in which a
pretzel is used as a metaphor for brittleness. Perhaps you spent too
much time at the bar before posting this embarrassing drivel.

You should have paid more attention to the nuts they served for
self-realization...beware of squirrels.

--
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.activism.d,soc.culture.jewish,soc.rights.human,alt.discrimination,alt.society.civil-liberties
From: garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin)
Subject: Re: Help stop the KKK
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 06:03:53 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Distribution: usa




The Klan, like everyone else, has a right to free speech.  They
do not have a right to be heard.  

The counter-protesters also have a right to free speech.  If,
by exercising their right, they drown out the speech of the
Klan, so be it.

Susan
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: spinoza@next03wor.wam.umd.edu (Prince Lev of the Domovoi)
Subject: Re: Help stop the KKK
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 02:42:46 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.020819.16701@cs.umn.edu> dege@cs.umn.edu (Dege  
Jeffrey Charles) writes:
> In <1992Apr13.143832.28733@sarah.albany.edu> mark@fenris.albany.edu  
(Mark Steinberger) writes:
> 
> >In article <1992Apr13.001441.10220@m.cs.uiuc.edu>  
kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
> >>Morally, in my opinion, no one has the right to shout down those they
> >>oppose.
> 
> >Just out of curiosity, Mr. Kadie, would you have been as zealous in
> >supporting the rights of the German Nazis to be heard in, say, 1930?
> 
> >Just what _would_ you have done, if anything, to resist Nazism?
> 
>     Did the Nazis have the right to speak?  Yes.  And anyone concerned  
with
> freedom should support them in that right.
>  
>     On the other hand, the Nazis in their early days did many things  
that
> should not be protected, to include physical attacks on communists and  
jews.
> Racially motivated crimes should be prosecuted to the extent of the law.
> Speech, however, is not a crime.
>  
Incitement to violence, however, is. Given the past track record of the  
Klan, it is reasonable to expect that the Klan speech will indeed incite  
violence....................




shalom,
lev

"Lo yisa goy el goy cherev, lo yilmedu od milchama.......until then, keep  
the Galil oiled and loaded..............."
Xref: sparky alt.activism:7298 alt.censorship:3167 alt.conspiracy:6115 talk.politics.misc:17078
From: kk@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Ken Kittlitz)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.censorship,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: HOLOCAUST MYTHS
Date: 5 Apr 92 23:11:49 GMT
Organization: University of Calgary

In article <JN8LiB1w164w@b-cpu.UUCP> pfaust@b-cpu.UUCP (Pete Faust) writes:

  > At least one person, I have learned, tried to earn the
  > $50,000.00.  After two weeks his attorney, looking into the
  > facts and televising possibilities, informed him he had
  > better forget about it.

Please give a reference for this.  While you're at it, give a detailed
description of what you would consider "proof."  Next, apply these
criteria to the hypothesis that there is a world-wide Zionist
conspiracy.  We all await your findings.

						Ken
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: cmort@NCoast.ORG (Christopher Morton)
Subject: Re: Celebrating National Meatout Day
Reply-To: cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton)
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 21:37:49 GMT
Followup-To: alt.activism

As quoted from <ac.39@apmaths.uwo.ca> by ac@apmaths.uwo.ca (alka chandna):

> >>what gives you the right to eat meat
> 
> >The right to self-sufficiency.
> 
> do you mean self-sustenance?  or are you saying that you kill all of the 
> meat that you eat yourself?

Some people do.

> >>"if you can live without meat, why not give it a try?"
> 
> >I enjoy the flavor of meat. I don't want to discontinue ingesting meat.
> 
> is this an ethical argument?  maybe you should go into philosophy and write 
> a book.  that aside, there are now many meat analogues which are delicious 
> and filling. 

No less so than one against eating meat.  There's no ethical reason not to eat
meat... at least not one any greater than that in favor of eating meat.

> >>my life *
> >>is* a bitch, because when i see suffering, it pains me enough that i decide 
> >>that i must do something about it.
> 
> >Why not take some arsenic and end it all now? That way you won't have to
> >endure watching all this suffering you claim to see.
> 
> wow .. and they call animal rights activists "misanthropic".  why don't you 
> see your doctor & get your testosterone levels checked; this kind of 
> hostility & macho posturing just can't be healthy - it's certainly far from 
> intelligent.

How is it macho?  He suggested that YOU take action to end your suffering.  He
didn't threaten you.  Is disagreement with you macho?

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------  

"Well whose opinions did you THINK these were...?" 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: H. Ross Perot on some issues
From: sanders@mdcbbs.com (Wayne Sanders-Unrein)
Date: 6 Apr 92 11:34:37 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Electronic Data Systems, Unigraphics Div., Cypress CA
Nntp-Posting-User: sanders

In article <1992Apr6.050942.7807@cbnewse.cb.att.com>, doctor1@cbnewse.cb.att.com (patrick.b.hailey) writes:

	[stuff deleted]
> 
> Add to this using company personnel records to discover employees of the
> opposite sex living together and FIRE them, and being one of the first
> companies to institute random drug testing for no reason at all.
> 
	Does anyone have any specific information on the above?

-- 
| Wayne Sanders-Unrein	    | Voice:    +1 714 952 5773
| Currently on contract to: | Internet: sanders@vxw.mdcbbs.com
| EDS, Unigraphics Division | <-- talking from but not for
| Cypress, CA		    | UUCP:...{uunet,decwrl,att}!vxw.mdcbbs.com!sanders
Xref: sparky alt.activism:7760 alt.censorship:3322 alt.conspiracy:6379 talk.politics.misc:18373
From: mpd@anomaly.sbs.com (Michael P. Deignan)
Subject: Re: stop FDA dictatorship
Organization: Small Business Systems, Incorporated, Esmond, RI  02917
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 03:21:17 GMT

cprice@treehut.waffle.atl.ga.us  (Clyde Price) writes:
...
>        Your freedom to buy _all_ amino acids and nutrients such as
>COENZYME Q-10 may be taken away by a bill introduced into Congress
>that gives the FDA frightening new powers.
...

Gee, and to think that this comes from the same group of people who
want to increase the powers of the EPA to "protect us" from those
evil big-businesses out there...

One would think that extending their same logic would yield "a bigger
EPA can protect us more from those big companies that are out just to 
make a buck and have no concern for humans."

Of course, we all know that's not the case, since it's one of their
"pet" industries that would get clamped down on.

MD
-- 
--  Michael P. Deignan                      / 
--  Domain: mpd@anomaly.sbs.com            /   I'm not a bigot,
--    UUCP: ...!uunet!rayssd!anomaly!mpd  /    I hate everyone.
-- Telebit: +1 401 455 0347              / 
Xref: sparky alt.activism:7396 alt.individualism:2336 talk.politics.misc:17406
From: peercy@crhc.uiuc.edu (Mike Peercy)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.individualism,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Socialism Security Rides Again
Date: 8 Apr 92 20:56:18 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
NNTP-Posting-Host: dopey.crhc.uiuc.edu

mikeq@saab.CNA.TEK.COM (Mike Quigley) writes:

| rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
| >
| >If you are an acoholic or a drug
| >addict, Social Security classifies you as "disabled" and will support
| >your drug habit to the tune of $625 dollars a month.

|  Chicken feed. Compared to what the payout to S&L crooks is costing you.

These are not at all comparable, except for the fact that both Social
Security and the FSLIC were parts of the New Deal.

| >On the other hand, good news on the War on Rights.  The supreme court
| >threw out the case against the farmer who was entrapped by the
| >government into a child pornography rap.
|  
|  And guess who voted to uphold the case. Yup, ol' Long Dong Thomas
|  hisself. If I remember right, during his confirmation hearings, didn't
|  the dongman refuse to answer questions about HIS interest in porn
|  because, and I quote: ``What I do behind the doors of my home is
|  no one's business but my own.''?

Sorry to surprise you, but Clarence Thomas voted _for_ tossing out the
case.

|  Thanks to George, what we have for a Supreme Court are eight
|  obsolete whites and a horny, pissed-off black. 

George gave us one white and one black, both of whom voted with the
majority in that case.

I will agree with you that Bush is less concerned with our rights than
any president in history, but his appointments here did the right thing.
It was Reagan's three and his Chief Justice who voted against, with
O'Connor writing the dissent.

|  *********************************************************
|  On November 3, vote for freedom of choice, for everything.
|  *********************************************************

Considering what a lousy conception of history and politics you have, how
do you suggest we do this?

Mike Peercy
peercy@crhc.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.activism.d,soc.culture.jewish,soc.rights.human,alt.discrimination,alt.society.civil-liberties,alt.censorship
From: dweinste@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (David Weinstein)
Subject: Re: Help stop the KKK
Organization: Chaos Under Glass
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:34:14 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.143832.28733@sarah.albany.edu> mark@fenris.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger) writes:
#I wonder where they are going to be holding their rally. I'd really be
#hard put if they got going with speeches and loudspeakers in my
#neighborhood. What do you suggest, Mr. Kadie, to cool out the
#neighbors here? How will you make this hatred and implicit violence
#palatable to the people who are about to be exposed to it?

The Klan has held a rally in my neighborhood. And repugnant though
they were, that didn't really present a problem. The counter-protestors
rioting did. 

The Klan has been experimenting with new tactics in Colorado, the same
tactics they plan to use all over the country; the demonstrators are
rigidly self-controlled, and they will provoke the protestors to
violence. What would have been 15 seconds and a still photo on the
local evening news, becomes a national story, and the Klan comes out
smelling like a rose. If you go out there to "protest", you are being
used by the Klan.

As an aside, considering the amount of police protection out there, the
Klan isn't a threat at the rally at all. We didn't have to close the 
windows to shut out tear gas because the Klan was running amuck, it was
because a mob of foolish hotheads had let the Klan goad them into
doing *exactly* what the Klan wanted that we had rioters and looters
running through the ally.    

If you go to protest that Klan rally, after everything we had to learn
the hard way in Denver, you are a fool.

--Dave

-- 
Dave Weinstein
Internet: dweinste@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Xref: sparky alt.activism:7665 alt.activism.d:1627 soc.culture.jewish:7935 soc.rights.human:1407 alt.discrimination:1550 alt.society.civil-liberties:505 alt.censorship:3287
From: sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.activism.d,soc.culture.jewish,soc.rights.human,alt.discrimination,alt.society.civil-liberties,alt.censorship
Subject: Re: Help stop the KKK
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:26:23 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <1992Apr13.183914.25349@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>, aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (a.j.s. nusbacher) writes:
> In the discussion of how to oppose a Klan rally there has been a muddying of
> goals.
> 
> If you want to have a counterdemonstration, then you seek to demonstrate your opposition to the klan demonstration.  The ideas of showing up to laugh or having comics hold an anti-Klan comedy festival somewhere else were excellent examples of how this mig> ht effectively be done.  A counterdemonstration should be intended to demonstrate opposition, not be an act of opposition.
> 
> If you want to oppose the Klan, the way to do it is by other means.  By working to eliminate hatred etc., or (for the fiercer bodies) by going out with baseball bats and causing actual physical harm.  A good whack is worth a thousand shouts.
> 
> If that sounds extreme (and it was intended to sound extreme), consider that earlier in this discussion, someone cited the Nazis in the 1930's as an example.  The notion of taking some sports equipment to Nazis back when it might have helped, certainly se> ems attractive.
> 
> I do not advocate violence in opposition to the Klan--mostly because it's illegal, and partly because it means that they have succeeded in defining the terms of discourse to suit their level of preparation.  However, I must point out that to shout out a K> lan rally is not to oppose the Klan--not materially.

I guess we have forgotten that the streets of Germany
were over-run with street battles between the Nazis and
the radical German left.  The Nazis were given violence,
and it didn't really help.  If anything it played right
into their hands, they could say, "see we are for peaceful
change, but the communists meet us in the streets with
violence" (sounds just like what I heard the Klansmen say
in Denver).  The open exchange of ideas
in the marketplace, and open education of the children
are the only hope.  Don't let the children forget what
the Nazis of the 30's did, so that in the 90's and beyond
they won't choose our own Nazis.  This is the best reason
why Holocaust curricula, and a curricula of the pre-Civil
War and post Civil
War period atrocities against (freed) slaves, really
must be taught at all levels.  After all, this is what
the Klan, and the radical religious right are really the
inheritors of.

This is why Holocaust revisionism has sprung up so suddenly,
anti-Klan education is common-place in our public education.
They need to aggresively counter what kids should be learning
in school.  I fear most for this country when I see how ignorant
high school and indeed college graduates are lately.

	Seth Rosenthal

Disclaimer: All opinions are my own, not my employers'.
From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas x5363)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: AGRAN and the Others
Date: 6 Apr 92 23:14:16 GMT

People ask why did agran get arrested.....does it make it clearer to know
that Clinton is a member of the Trilateral Commission? And that Clinton supports
a *growing* military while Agran would take billions from the Pentagon
sluts war mongers and give it where it is needed in education, medicine, etc...?
Also does it make more sense when you know that Brown favors the military 
(in the long run) too and that he is rumored to have Mafia ties?

Len

Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.censorship
From: dong@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Don M. Gibson)
Subject: Re: AGRAN Exclusion -- BROWN Hypocrisy
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin, Texas
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 18:25:00 GMT

harelb@MATH.CORNELL.EDU (Harel Barzilai) writes:


> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>Date: 05 Apr 92 22:49:35 EDT
>From: Agran for President <75300.3112@CompuServe.COM>
>To: <harelb@math.cornell.edu>
>Subject: Brown on Exclusion
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

>       A member of the media finally pinned down Jerry Brown on Larry
>Agran's exclusion from the political process.  You know what Brown said?
>       "Why doesn't he get a group of people and have an event?"
>       (THe Burlington Free Press, 3/30/92)
>       You can just bet that if Jerry Brown was being excluded, he wouldn't
>be hollering for "separate but equal" candidate forums.  He's the biggest
>hypocrite of any candidate in any party this year.
>       Steve


   Who can blame Brown?  There are not even enough of us loose-cannon
voters to support him.
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.censorship,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: HOLOCAUST MYTHS
From: kmcvay@oneb.wimsey.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 15:42:19 GMT
Followup-To: alt.activism
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac, Vancouver Island

In article <BkR8iB1w165w@west.darkside.com> wix@west.darkside.com (Doktor Avalanche) writes:

>rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:

>> It's probably because if people found out who he really was he'd
>> suffer no end of mail and phone harassment, letters to his boss, etc.
>> He might be using anonymity to spread his slime and protect himself
>> from terrorism.

>> Your most useful program will be continually improved until it is useless.

>You know, IMHO I wouldn't dare post my real name up on the net. 

>Oh sure, it just might be cowardice, but what remains is how easy
>it is to gather personal information on someone just on their
>name alone.

With ten million folks out there, while the odds of being 'harrassed'
exist, they must be a tad on the low side... under normal conditions,
who would care (1) who you really are, or (2) where you really are?

>Of course, you've got your site name tagged along to your message
>as well. Anyone could easily find out what state/county/city you
>live in based on soley on that information.

Not really - forgery is a fine art on the net, and systems like mine
provide free access to any validated user - in the case of long
distance users, I validate them via uucp mail - which again lends
itself to forgery. In short, the fact that someone uses my system
isn't remotely indicative of where he/she calls from.

>At any rate, I digress. Seeing how we're in the InfoAge, and given
>that it's relatively easy to get information on anyone, I have
>to ask this one question: is it really wise to post your REAL
>name on the net? I've come to the tenative conclusion that it's
>not (unless, of course, you're one of those people who think 
>privacy is an option).

Unless you are ashamed of your opinions, I can't see it as being of
great concern - I tend to dismiss the opinions of folks using
pseudonyms out of hand, although freely conceding that "Joe Smith"
could be equally phoney.

-- 
The Old Frog's Almanac    ===   kmcvay%oneb.wimsey.bc.ca@mala.bc.ca
"There is hardly anything in the world that some  man cannot make a
little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider
price only are this man's lawful prey." (John Ruskin)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.activism.d,soc.culture.jewish,soc.rights.human,alt.discrimination,alt.society.civil-liberties
From: kevin@liebe.uucp (Kevin Brawley)
Subject: Re: Help stop the KKK
Organization: Liebe Company
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 19:17:01 GMT

jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:

>Nope.  Speech aimed at drowning out other people's speech by its loudness
>is not protected from the police.  In fact the civil rights act requires
>police protection for anyone's speech from being drowned out.

I would be interested in seeing documentation of this!  But regardless it
is not reality.  As long as it's peaceful the police don't touch it.  The
city would fast be a defendant, because who is to say, who shouted over
who?  Particularly when both groups have applied for demonstration permits.

Kevin Brawley
Xref: sparky alt.activism:7419 alt.censorship:3198 alt.conspiracy:6178 talk.politics.misc:17464
From: jxxl@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (John Locke)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.individualism,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Justice Thomas (was Socialism Security Rides Again)
Date: 9 Apr 92 15:45:56 GMT
Reply-To: jxxl@cs.nps.navy.mil (John Locke)
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA

> } Anyone for an "Impeach Thomas" movement?
> Why?  He voted to throw the case out.

Impeach him anyway.
--
From: covici@ccs.covici.com (John Covici)
Reply-To: covici@ccs.covici.com
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: Governor Lam Offers Brave New World Rationalization For Euthanasia
Date: 8 Apr 92 6:36:33 GMT
Organization: Covici Computer Systems

pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce @ UCLA Computer Science Department) once wrote....
>For further information see:
>
>Author:        King, Dennis.

Is this your response to every new idea -- the same?  Is your brain 
on automatic?


----
Please respond by e-mail as I get very far behind in reading this 
newsgroup.

         John Covici
          covici@ccs.covici.com

Newsgroups: alt.activism