HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Bona fide travellers
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 12:35:55 GMT

David (did Lloyd George know his father?) George writes:

	Chris Cooke writes:

		Our public transport system is far worse than it was

	Debatable - we've got nice new electric trains (Wessex class) 
	on the Weymouth (or is that Budmouth line) instead of the 
	antiquated MK1 rolling stock.  A nice little private bus service 
	comes down my grans' road and picks her up from her door and takes 
	her into town, poor old dear.

That's funny. It used to be, a long, long time ago, that all (most?) rural
bus services in Scotland and the North of England (and Wales?) were
private. Not coaches or charas, but regular bus services. McBane's for
the Highlands comes to mind. How else could one establish bona fides as a
traveller on the Sabbath when feeling thirsty?

						Francis Muir

francis@sep.stanford.edu
From: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Election Fraud by the Conservatives
Keywords: Poll Tax
Date: 12 Apr 92 12:45:26 GMT
Reply-To: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch
Organization: Ascom Hasler AG
Originator: kevinh@nath


In article <1992Apr10.130407.29177@cl.cam.ac.uk>, jlb10@cl.cam.ac.uk (John Beaven) writes:
|> 
|> I wonder if that might be a reason why the polls were so wrong. Perhaps
|> pollsters managed to get trough to the "disappeard" (how are their samples
|> selected?) who expressed some voting intentions rather than admitting 
|> that they had become disenfranchised to avoid the poll tax?


Did the poll results take account of the constituency boundary changes
initiated by the Conservatives a few years ago that gave them a few(!) seats.

Apparently they are planning to do the same again in 94/95 which will
give them another 15-20 seats (from the Independent 11/4). 

Fiddle or what!!

kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:6713 soc.culture.celtic:3651
From: smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Gerry Adams out, Good news for NI...
Date: 17 Apr 92 17:48:12 GMT
Organization: Sun Technologies Enterprise Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.france.sun.com

In article <1992Apr17.105211.6644@bsu-ucs.uucp>, 00rdharringt@bsu-ucs.uucp (Rob Harrington) writes:
   > In article <1992Apr13.144148.17230@newcastle.ac.uk>, D.M.Johnson@newcastle.ac.uk (Dave Johnson) writes:
   > > Could that fact that Gerry Adams was not elected by the people of west belfast
   > > indicate to the supporters of the actions of the PIRA, that this actions are
   > > not wanten and a peaceful solution should be used.
   > > 
   > > 
   > > Dave Johnson
   > > 
   > 
   > just out of curiousity are there any "moderate republican" (is that an
   > oxymoron?) groups in NI?  Groups that want to seperate from UK and
   > possibly re-unify with Eire without killing people?

Yes. The term "nationalist" (rather than the pejorative "republican") is
usually used to refer to such groups. Easily the biggest is the SDLP (Social
Democratic and Labour Party) who have far more popular support than
Sinn Fein. They regained West Belfast from Gerry Adams in the recent election,
having lost it to him in the early 80's after a disagreement within the
SDLP led to the moderate vote in W. Belfast being split.

The previous MP for W. Belfast was Gerry Fitt, who was then SDLP leader and
was outspoken in his condemnation of violence (and the subject of IRA attacks
because of it). He was one of those rare (especially in NI) politicians who
was respected as a politician even by people with very different political
views.

Steve
From: uad1189@dircon.co.uk (Dave Yadallee)
Newsgroups: uk.politics,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Polling and newspapers request
Keywords: April 9th and April 11th
Date: 9 Apr 92 00:20:52 GMT


Well it's Polling Day today.
All I have is the following request:
  Could someone mail me copies of newspapers of the April 9th and April
   11th newspapers, like the Times, the Guardian, the Express, the Observerer
   the Independent, the Scotsman and any maybe post some Ceefax and Oracle
  if possible.  I can be reach at yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca or
  userLIBE@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca.
  Thank You !!
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: uk.politics,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Why wait 5 years?
Date: 14 Apr 92 08:19:44 GMT
Organization: sgi

In article <STEVEW.92Apr13120006@mushroom.cs.man.ac.uk>, stevew@cs.man.ac.uk (Steve Wallis) writes:
>
> Obviously, an effective strategy has to be worked out (I don't know
> what form of civil disobedience is being proposed), but I will make 
> the point that the Scottish working class has the power to force the 
> Tories to give in, if they decide to use it.  If nobody (or perhaps 
> only the 25% who voted Tory) works, then the country would be brought 
> to a standstill.

If they brought Scotland to a standstill, how would we tell?

jon.
From: smith@canon.co.uk (Mark Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Emmigration after the Tory win on April 9th
Date: 12 Apr 92 13:49:58 GMT
Organization: Canon Research Centre Europe Ltd

pac9897@zeus.tamu.edu (SO MUCH FOR DEMOCRACY IN BRITAIN) writes:
> I was just thinking, all of my British friends (with one or two exceptions)
> who are at university were considering emmigration now that it has
> become clear that our democracy no longer functions properly.

So will they be leaving immediately, or continue sponging 
off the state until they've finished their degrees?

> So who else is for bailing out before the rats drag down the ship of state?
> 
> Philip A. Carney		On Exchange from Lancaster University,
> Texas A&M University, TX	England.

Don't you feel guilty about enjoying the benefits of a university 
in a country where parents have to save for years to give their 
own children the opportunity?  I don't suppose any of your friends
will be emigrating there.

---- Mark Smith ---- Canon Research Europe ---- smith@canon.co.uk ----
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: dj@ssd.kodak.com (Dave Jones)
Subject: Re: Gas stoves
Organization: :noitazinagrO
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 14:29:45 GMT

In article <pwe.702655289@slipknot> pwe@slipknot.mit.edu (Paul W. Emery) writes:
>
> In the UK the thermostats on  gas stoves (ovens)are calibrated in"Gas
>marks"can somebody give me the equivalent of this in degrees
>fahrenheit.My Mother's coming over here and if I'm going to get any
>Yorkshire pud she's going to need to know.
> 
>               
Unless your Mum is way out of date, she should already know the
equivalents as they've been routine in recipes for decades now. 
She'll have bigger problems with the flour, which never seems to
be quite right in the US - different kind of wheat or something.

And shame on you for not knowing how to make your own Yorkshires anyway!


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember that whatever misfortune may be your lot, it could only be
worse in Cleveland.
		-- National Lampoon, "Deteriorada"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
||Dave Jones (dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com)    ||-------------------------------|
||Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, NY 14653-7300|-------------------------------|
|| If Unix is a computer system            ||-------------------------------|
|| then a pile of bricks is a house        ||-------------------------------|
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Subject: Re: MAJOR WINS MAJORITY!!!
Organization: sgi
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 22:24:05 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.151652.364@bristol.ac.uk>, smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
|> In article <jia45as@zola.esd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
|> >If you don't have the figures, why be so precise?   Why "thirteen"
|> >years, for example?
|> 
|> Because it's a nice number.  Because it's when the Tories came to
|> power. 

I see, so you are telling us that you just wanted to slam the
Tories, and so you came up with this very specific claim that:

	"Thirteen years ago, the UK was near the top of most 
	comparative EEC tables; .."

|> Because in about 1979 the Labour government, after a really bad
|> patch in the mid-70s, had got inflation down to 8%, only to have it
|> shoot back up in the period after the election.  

You mean that at the time, other European countries had inflation rates
*worse* that 8%?   I think that must be what you are claiming if this
is your supporting evidence for the claim I have quoted above.   I
kind of doubt that, by the way.


|> Because it's the baseline for the Tories' claims that unemployment was
|> ridiculously high under Labour (and they STILL haven't got that down to
|> the level they inherited). 

You mean that thirteen years ago, other European countries had
unemployment higher than Britain?    I guess that must be what 
you are saying, since once again you are producing this in support 
of the claim I quote above.    Is it really true that thirteen 
years ago the other European countries had higher unemployment 
that the UK?   Does anyone know?


|> (The figures above are trivial to verify, so I'll leave you to find
|> your own references if you want them.  When/if I re-find any of the
|> more obscure figures I'm looking for, I'll be sure to pass on sources
|> as well.)

But that's not what you are trying to verify.   What you are trying
to verify is that thirteen years ago "the UK was near the top of most 
comparative EEC tables".   You need to produce comparitive figures.

jon.
From: matthew@ntl02.decnet.nokia.fi (Matthew Faupel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: The Vogon News Service: 10-Apr-92 (Scottish swing)
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:40:52 GMT
	<1992Apr12.201143.3561@bcrka451.bnr.ca>
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications, Cambridge, UK

Craig Cockburn writes:
>
>	VOGON announces:
>
>		In Scotland there was a 3% swing to the Conservatives. The 
>		turnout was ~80%.
>

Swings are most dubious things... The Conservative vote in Scotland remained
much the same (about 25%); the apparent swing resulted from the
redistribution of votes between the three opposition parties there.


Matthew
--
---* Amnesiac the Wizard *------------------* matthew@uk.tele.nokia.fi *---
 Opinions expressed here are not those of my company.    | NB. ntl02 is EN
 They're not even my own; I plagiarised the lot of them! | TEE EL ZERO TWO
---* matthew@ntl02.decnet.nokia.fi *------------------* Matthew Faupel *---
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Election Results
Date: 13 Apr 92 10:49:02 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: martinb@bottomdog.uk.sun.com (Martin Baines - Sun UK - SE Manager Cambridge/Gatwick)
>       Woe unto us!  I spent the evening listening to the results on
>       the World Service with a group of fellow Brits.  Stunned disbelief,
>       followed by gnashing of teeth.  One woman announced she is no
>       longer British.  Those who had thought of returning from exile
>       will remain abroad.  Those who had thought they were abroad
>
>If they think Britain under the Conservatives is so bad, why on
>earth have they chosen the USA for their exile? The policies there
>are not exactly socialist heaven: maybe Cuba would be a good place
>for them to try?

In my case, simply because salaries for people in my line of
work (computer science academic) are so much higher. Throughout
the period of Conservative government, academic salaries have
fallen relative to other salaries. The workload has increased
due to more students being pushed through without any increased
funding. I for one have suffered serious personal problems
which I don't want to go in to, because the salaries in my
chosen career are so low. The other political parties have
promised to review academic salaries. I think there are a good
few academics who were hanging on hoping for the defeat of the
Conservatives, who will now be leaving the country.

The Conservatives go on about how their cuts in higher rate
income tax are going to encourage top scientists to stay in the
country. All I can say is ha-ha ha-ha - wouldn't it be nice to
have a salary high enough for higher rate income tax to be
something to be concerned about.

Matthew Huntbach
From: touras@ee.rochester.edu (Vassilios Tourassis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: BRITISH CONUMER REPORTS?
Date: 9 Apr 92 18:26:17 GMT
Organization: Univ of Rochester, College of Engineering and Applied Science

Are there any CONSUMER magazines in Europe that provide evaluations of
EUROPEAN autos?

I am looking for something semi-reliable, like Consumer Reports in the US,
highlighting the relative safety, crashworthiness and reliability of
automobiles currently driven in Europe. Any pointers will be most welcome.

Vassilios
touras@ee.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: evansg@uproar.enet.dec.com (Gwyn Evans @ IME)
Subject: Re: political parties
Reply-To: evansg@uproar.enet.dec.com (Gwyn Evans @ IME)
Organization: Digital Equipment Service Industries Solutions Company Ltd
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 15:51:27 GMT


In article <1992Apr13.134026.11401@newcastle.ac.uk>,
J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley) writes:
>>crucial 2-3% of the vote going from Lib-Dem to Tory. This was
>>enough to boost the Tories in the Lab-Con marginal seats and keep
>>them ahead of Labour, and deny the LibDems themselves any gains
>>from the Conservatives.
>
>Apart from Bath, of course :-)
>
>Summary: once again, the LibDems have split the opposition vote
>sufficiently to keep the government in.

  Hmm, I'm not convinced that the above is true, as it seems to assume 
that if the LibDems disbanded, Labour would pick up all their votes. I'm
certain that this wouldn't happen and a fair proportion would vote for
the Conservatives in preference to Labour.

Gwyn
--
+======================================================================+
| Gwyn Evans  | evansg@uproar.enet.dec.com |  Uxbridge, Middlesex, UK  |
| DESISCo - Digital Equipment Service Industries Solutions Company Ltd |
|  Views expressed and statements made are mine and not those of DEC   |
+======================================================================+
From: matthew@ntl02.decnet.nokia.fi (Matthew Faupel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Election stats (3/5) Votes by sex, age & class
Date: 17 Apr 92 11:31:06 GMT
	<1992Apr14.151038.209112@cs.cmu.edu>
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications, Cambridge, UK

>>>>> On 14 Apr 92 15:10:38 GMT, goddard+@cs.cmu.edu (Nigel Goddard) said:

> In article <MATTHEW.92Apr13230031@matthew.ntl02.decnet.nokia.fi> [I write]:
>>Breakdown of voting proportions by sex, age and class.
>>Source: Independent on Sunday, 12 Apr 92
>>              Con      Lab   LibDem   Other

>>AB             59       20       19       2
>>C1             52       24       20       5
>>C2             41       38       17       5
>>DE             29       50       17       4

> Can someone explain what these class classifications are?  I'm especially
> interested in the proportion of the voting age population in each class
> and the income bands for each class.

I'm afraid I couldn't provide you with the detailed information that you ask
for without checking references in a library (and I'm not even sure I'd know
where to start looking).

Briefly though, the classifications were invented by the advertising
industry to describe the target markets they were aiming at.  The bands are
based on the job you do; A and B are "professionals", Company directors are
a typical 'A' group and us software engineers are 'B'.  C1 is skilled
manual, C2 semi-skilled manual and D unskilled. E (I think) is unemployed,
retired and so on.

These groupings do not exactly fit the notion of social class, nor is there
a precise mapping between the groups and incomes, but generally speaking you
travel from upper to lower class and from richer to poorer going from A to
E.


Matthew
--
---* Amnesiac the Wizard *------------------* matthew@uk.tele.nokia.fi *---
 Opinions expressed here are not those of my company.    | NB. ntl02 is EN
 They're not even my own; I plagiarised the lot of them! | TEE EL ZERO TWO
---* matthew@ntl02.decnet.nokia.fi *------------------* Matthew Faupel *---
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:6629 alt.society.civil-liberty:3504 misc.legal:9367 talk.politics.misc:18472
From: eric@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.society.civil-liberty,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: British Bill: of Rights? of Goods?
Date: 16 Apr 92 14:11:47 GMT

In <1992Apr15.140429.581@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> Jim Heath wrote:
> I didn't see the beginning of this thread, but it is my
> understanding that there is _no_ British Bill of Rights.

That's correct; no British Bill of Rights, and for that matter no British
Constitution, either.  Their closest historical analogue was the Magna Carta,
which is almost completely a dead letter; it's 850 years old and was drafted
for social and economic conditions utterly unlike today's (nevertheless, it
has something of the same symbolic role to the Brits as our Constitution
does to us).

The U.K. is not a constitutional republic.  Americans find this difficult to
remember, because the British system seems superficially so much like ours.  But
the British rely much more than us on the "common law", a body of statute and
(often unwritten) tradition with roots going back to the Anglo-Saxon folkmoots
and even earlier Germanic tribal law (which is why the descriptions of legal
proceedings in the Icelandic sagas from c.1000 can sound more familiar than
modern judicial transcripts from a "civil law" country like France).

There is a semi-organized minority of constitutionalist opinion in Great
Britain, but the typical British attitude is that if the system ain't broke
they shouldn't try to fix it.  This lets the British government get away
with things like the Official Secrets Act and "D notices" (a form of
prior censorship on the mass media) that would be near-unthinkable here.
On the other hand, they don't have our armies of lawyers justifying
ever-vaster entitlements on "consitutional" grounds, either.
-- 
      Eric S. Raymond = eric@snark.thyrsus.com  (not, actually, a lawyer)
From: nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: American view of the Election
Date: 15 Apr 92 22:04:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: VOILA.NICKH.92Apr15170414
	<1992Mar27.135551.4032@city.cs> <1992Apr8.130549.6608@newcastle.ac.uk>
	<1992Apr15.111427.16983@yang.earlham.edu>
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: nickh@VOILA.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU

In article <1992Apr15.111427.16983@yang.earlham.edu> allens@yang.earlham.edu (Allen Smith) writes:

   In article <1992Apr8.130549.6608@newcastle.ac.uk>, Trevor.Kirby@newcastle.ac.uk (Trevor Kirby) writes:
   > 
   > In article <11097@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, skywalker@DINO.QCI.BIOCH.BCM.TMC.EDU (Timothy B. Reynolds) writes:
   >>
   >>Very true, much more is at stake like the future of your country. Also
   >>true, its your country but some in the US would hate to see the UK go
   >>down the drain. Can you say capital flight ?
   >>
   > Ahh I see now, so the argument has come round to vote tory
   >because the USA will lose out if you don't.  Well it's probably
   >about par with most of the reasons the politicians have given out
   >over the last few weeks, and will be ignored for exactly that
   >reason.

	   More like US businesses are likely to pull out of the UK. Capital 
   flight (US capital) from the UK. I'm not in favor of the tories (the 
   Official Secrets act is rather offensive), but he's got a point.

I have been worried about capital flight for a while (not that it
stopped me voting Labour). But what was the opinion of the Financial
Times on the matter? Given that they advocated Labour voting, I assume
they weren't too concerned. Could it be that businesses are more
likely to invest in a UK without a Tory government? Could it be that
Tory policies have badly damaged British industry, and Labour policies
might revive it? Could it be that Japanese manfacturing came to the
North-East after encouragement from the local (Labour) councils,
_despite_ Tory policy? Just perhaps?

Nick Haines nickh@cs.cmu.edu
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:5927 rec.travel:5256
From: koumis@husc4.harvard.edu (Anthony Koumis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.travel
Subject: Re: Long Layover at London Heathrow
Keywords: layover london heathrow
Date: 8 Apr 92 23:05:45 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

Take the tube, it is right there into the center of London (Piccadilly
Circus or Leisester Square) and just walk around.  Check out the HOuses
of Parliament, Buckingham Palace, St. James Park, Tafalgar Sqare and the
free National Gallery.  They are all right near each other (buy a little
map before you go to plot the short route if you want to fill organized)

Depending on what time you are going to be there, go into the Sherlock
HOlmes Pub near Trafalger Square for lunch.  NOt bad place and amusing.

Eat lunch at the pub not the upstaris expensive reastaurant.  But check out the
mockup of Sherlock's pad at the top of the stairs where you have to go to
use the toilet.

If you are there at night, a lovely walk is across the Hungerford Train
bridge over to the South Bank.  The view at night of the HOuses
of Parliament is beautiful.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,uk.politics
From: lhb6v@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Laura Hayes Burchard)
Subject: Re: political parties
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 11:58:47 GMT

In article <STEVEW.92Apr15144648@mushroom.cs.man.ac.uk> stevew@cs.man.ac.uk (Steve Wallis) writes:
>As for what Militant (and Scottish Militant Labour) stands for, here is a
>summary taken from the "Militant" newspaper:

[a long list, containing the odd sensible statement interspersed with the likes
of this]

>*	A job for all with a maximum 35 hour week without loss of pay.
>*	A #190 per week minimum wage for all, including pensioners, the sick
>	and disabled.
>*	Reversal of all Tory cuts and a massive programme of public spending
>	on housing, education and health.
>*	Nationalisation of the 200 largest companies, including banks and
>	insurance companies, under democratic workers' control and
>	management, with compensation only for any shareholder in genuine
>	need.
>*	A democratic, socialist planned economy to end the chaos of the
>	profit system.
>*	No return to capitalism in the former Stalinist states.  Establish
>	workers' democracy and genuine socialism.
>*	A socialist world where hunger, poverty, the threat of environmental
>	destruction and world war can finally be abolished.

*collapses in hysterical laughter*

And I thought it was Lord Sutch who ran the Monster Raving Looney party...



--

Address alias changed -- good addresses are now lhb4v@virginia.edu and
lhb6v@faraday.clas.virginia.edu
From: sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: dweeb?
Date: 12 Apr 92 15:04:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.y8vj0fr.sue
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Apr12.084902.27493@cs.yale.edu> horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne) writes:
>In article <amvjca#.sue@netcom.com>, sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:
><In article <1992Apr12.002852.21905@cs.yale.edu> horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne) writes:
><
>[About residents of the US:]
><>Two or three of the quarter-billion (or
><>quarter-milliard :-)) of us eschew the vile orthographic revisionism of
><>Noah Webster.
><
><I hope you are correct in stating that there are only two or 
><three of you.  Sickening suck-up Anglophilic Yankees are grotesque
><aberrations, and should be kicked in the head at regular intervals.
>
>I'll thank you not to call me a Yankee:  that's a term I reserve for people
>like you.
>
>Anglophilic?  You're barking up the wrong tree.  My hatred of Britannia
>is surpassed only by my hatred of the United $tates of Amerika.
>

Boo hoo!  I can hardly reply for laughing.  Another academic weenie.

And you're STILL a Yankee, crybaby.  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british