HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard)
Subject: Anti Oxidants?
Organization: The Turing Project, Public Access Internet Host
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 17:28:48 GMT

I've heard that there are supposed to be anti oxidant drugs often used
in Europe, does anyone know anything about them? 
Does anyone know if these have been tested? I assume testing them would
be quite difficult since the effects would only show up after many years,
of use.


-- 
------          Join the Pythagorean Reform Church!               .
\    /        Repent of your evil irrational numbers             . .
 \  /   and bean eating ways. Accept 10 into your heart!        . . .
  \/   Call the Pythagorean Reform Church BBS at 508-793-9568  . . . .
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: npm@dale.cts.com (Nancy Milligan)
Subject: Re: cistic fibrosis
Organization: Titan Linkabit Corporation
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 20:07:25 GMT

Kevin Haddock (fish@ecst.csuchico.edu) wrote:
> has anyone ever heard of any breakthroughs in the treatment of
> cistic fibrosis?  (I am not sure I am spelling this right).
> 

Yes, I read in Science News Digest that gene therapy is going
to be attempted, just a study.  It was within the last month
or two that I read it.

--
Nancy P. Milligan 				npm@dale.cts.com
Titan Linkabit					cts!dale!npm
		  Gravity is no laughing matter.
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: patty@welchgate.welch.jhu.edu (Patty Haley)
Subject: I agree with Bob on this
Organization: Johns Hopkins Univ. Welch Medical Library
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 14:37:27 GMT

Bob Williams writes:

On the use of echinacea for accute problems...

I beg to differ.  I've found that a echinacea/baptisia compound (herb pharm
is a good brand) works very well to prevent the escalation of colds or other
viral ailments.  In fact, used at the very beginning of a problem, I think
it is more effective (prevention et al) than later in the course of the dis-
ease.

Given that this compound is a general immune system booster, I would be
hesitant to take for a full two weeks.  Its efficacy diminishes rapidly
the longer one takes it.

_________________________________________________________________________

I have found the same results.  Even the makers of my brand of echinacea
tell you to "take a break" from it if you do choose to take it every day.

I found that I use it when my immune system needs a boost, and that if
I am run down or fighting a cold, etc., it really helps things from 
getting any worse.

-Patty

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,sci.med
From: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
Subject: Re: Orthomolecular Approaches to Medicine
Reply-To: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 14:09:47 GMT

Also, can someone explain what orthomolecular medicine is?

One last request: If anyone can request books on Alternative medicine
to me (a pre-nursing student) I'd be grateful.  I plan to get a bachelor's
degree in Nursing, and hopefully, get a second degree with a Sociology
major and a Psych minor.  After that, I plan to get a Master's degree
in midwifery.  I feel that it is important to understand all avenues
of health care, and I'd like to be able to offer patients different routes
to good health, etc.
I'm especially interested in Acupressure/puncture, massage - shiatsu,
swedish, other, Homeopathy ( although I know VERY little about it)
and anything else I can get my hands on.  <GRIN>

Clover
la1002@albnyvms.bitnet

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: heinz@marvin.tuwien.ac.at (Heinz Herbeck)
Subject: Re: homeopathy
Organization: Technical University of Vienna
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 12:09:25 GMT


In article 725074603@convex.convex.com, schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) writes:
> 
> Of course, the fact that homeopathic preparations have no value
> beyond that of a placebo may have something to do with the
> decline of homeopathy.

Now since flaming has been discouraged by the charter for this newsgroup, I will
follow the example of another poster and ask a bit less 'flamely':

Is your statement that homeopathy is bogus based on
  - strong personal belief
  - anecdotal evidence
  - the opinion of 'authorities' (whoever they might be)
  - statistics
  - scientific proof
     - formal or
     - empiric ?

If you have any references, you might want to cite them here. If you have found
or read any proof that homepathy is bogus, you might want to share it with us.
To my knowledge, no such proof exists yet. To my knowledge, no proof that
homeopathy works exists, either. But I might be wrong in both cases. I'm not
a homeopath, nor do I claim or deny it's (homeopathy's) effectiveness.

I would strongly recommend to you, Mr. Schumacher, that you read the charter
for this newsgroup. If you have already done so, do it again. You will find
that sweeping generalizations without giving proofs or references are not
welcome here. Without further comments from your side, your posting falls
into the categories "Proof by: I believe it, therefore it's true" and
"Proof by: It SIMPLY CAN'T work; therefore it doesn't", and is of no value
whatsoever.

MfG
HH
-- 
- Heinz M. HERBECK       heinz@marvin.tuwien.ac.at       Tel. +43 1 58801-4107 -
- Technical University of Vienna, Austria  //  Institute for Computer Graphics -
- Hardware, n. : The part of a computer system that can be kicked.             -
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet (Clover M.)
Subject: Re: Chiropractic advice
Reply-To: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 19:06:13 GMT

My mother went to a chiropractor for over a year for a herniated
disk in her back.  He said that it was the most serious damage
he had ever seen.  And yet, she is now able to walk around and
go back to work with minimal discomfort, and AVOIDED SERIOUS SURGERY.
 
I have heard friends/co workers speak of other "miracles" from chiro-
practors.
 
But be VERY careful.  As with ANY doctor, trust your instincts.
If s/he isn't giving you the kind of treatment you feel you need,
never hesitate to get a second opinion.  Or even a third.  It may
take a while to find the right one, but from what I've heard, it
it's worth the search.

Clover
la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
This is my very first sig.file
From: kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Homeopathic resources
Date: 29 Dec 92 06:41:18 GMT
Organization: The Information Deli - via Netcom / San Jose, California

Here's a quick homeopathic resource list I compiled a while ago --
I think it's still mostly relevant.  -- Pete

Homeopathic Practitioners and Resources
---------------------------------------

For referrals to licensed health care professionals who provide homeopathic
care, call the National Center for Homeopathy at 703-548-7790 (or the other
organizations listed below with referrals).

To practice homeopathy legally in this country, one must be a licensed
health care practitioner (i.e., MD, osteopath, chiropractor, acupuncturist,
etc.).  That license, however, does not say anything about the
practitioner's abilities or affiliations as a homeopath.  There are a few
states that have homeopathic (or non-allopathic) licensing boards;
apparently there is also a board certification from one of the national
homeopathic organizations.

As with any health care professional, it is important to research your
choice of practitioner to determine his/her suitability to your case.  I
recommend at the least an interview and a request for references.  The NCH
has affiliated study groups; I've been told that contacting the local study
groups is a good way to check on the local practitioners.

The National Center for Homeopathy
801 N. Fairfax, Suite 306
Alexandria, VA  22314
703-548-7790
    Consumer information, referrals, convention, newsletter, books,
    medicine kits, affiliated study groups.

American Institute of Homeopathy
1500 Massachusetts Ave. N.W., Suite 42
Washington, DC  20005
    Conferences, journal, referrals.

Homeopathic Educational Services
2124 Kittredge St.
Berkeley, CA 94704
510-649-0294
510-649-0294 fax
800-359-9051 (orders only)
    Books, tapes, consumer information, medicine kits.

International Foundation for Homeopathy
2366 Eastlake E.
Seattle, WA  98102
206-324-8230
    Training, magazine, referrals.

Hahnemann Medical Clinic
1918 Bonita Ave.
Berkeley, CA 94704
510-524-3117
    Consultations, training.

_Everybody's Guide to Homeopathic Medicines_
by Stephen Cummings and Dana Ullman
Los Angeles: Jeremy P. Tarcher, Inc. 1984
ISBN 0-87477-324-5
    This book covers homeopathic history, principles, and practial
    methodology, home care measures and appropriate homeopathic medicines
    for a wide variety of acute conditions (with summaries of warning signs
    for conditions that require professional care), and a _materia medica_
    (a list of homeopathic medicines and the symptoms for which they are
    indicated) for the most commonly used medicines.

"Homeopathy: A Special Report"
by Richard Leviton
_Yoga Journal_ 85 (March/April 1989): 42-51
    This is a comprehensive article on the history, methodology, and the
    current and future states of homeopathy and its position as a health
    care alternative.

Disclaimer: This is not medical or homeopathic advice.
From: bochner@das.harvard.edu (Harry Bochner)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: Vitamins
Date: 28 Dec 92 19:22:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1992Dec28.192240.14986
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University

In article <1992Dec26.051720.15419@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
jblackwo@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (J P Blackwood) writes:
|> I have found that many multi-vitamins available on the market either make me 
|> foggy/depressed or make my joints hurt or both.
|> Rainbow Light vitamins do not? Does anyone know what the culprit might be??

I don't get those symptoms, but I do have problems with lots of supplements.
Since I have lots of allergy problems, my guess is that I'm allergic, or otherwise
hypersensitive, to some of the binders that are used to hold the pills together.
Something of that sort might be involved in your case as well, perhaps.

|> I am looking for good vitamins, Rainbow Lights are very expensive.

What works best for me is to get supplements in powdered form. Usually this means
buying capsules, and opening them up.

Twin Labs markets a lot of supplements in this form, and my experience with their
products has been good. They're not especially cheap, but I don't know how the
price compares with Rainbow Light.

Good luck!

-- 
Harry Bochner
bochner@das.harvard.edu
From: fish@ecst.csuchico.edu (Kevin Haddock)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: homeopathy
Date: 24 Dec 1992 21:56:09 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <BSIMON.92Dec23141255@elvis.stsci.edu> bsimon@elvis.stsci.edu (Bernie Simon) writes:
>
>   Yes. Its called avagodro's (sp?) number :-)
>

One other thing: Doesn't Avagdro's number have to do with the number
of molecules of gas in a liter?  What does this have to do with dilution
in a liquid?  I't seems to me that if you take a 1000 units of matrix and
1 unit of active ingredient you then out of the 1001 units you take one unit
for your sample you have a pretty good chance of having some of the
active ingredient in your sample don't you?

Just wondering?

-Kevin
fish@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu

-------
Hackers do it with fewer instructions!

Xref: sparky misc.health.alternative:190 sci.med:23124
From: bsimon@elvis.stsci.edu (Bernie Simon)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,sci.med
Subject: Re: Orthomolecular Approaches to Medicine
Date: 28 Dec 92 12:35:22 GMT
	<1992Dec26.100207.13492@dircon.co.uk>,<1hivviINNlgj@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu>
	<1992Dec27.140947.27837@sarah.albany.edu>
Organization: None. This saves me from writing a disclaimer.

If you want to find out more about alternative medicine, a good place
to start is with Andrew Weil's book, "Health and Healing". It gives
brief summaries of the different kinds of alternative medicine, a
critique of the excesses of allopathy, and an explanation of why he
thinks an understanding of the placebo response is important for the
future of medicine.
--
Bernie Simon	(bsimon@stsci.edu)		ad astra per aspera
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: terryk@encore.com (Terence M. Kelleher)
Subject: Aldous Huxley (Was Re: Bates method (natural vision improvement))
Organization: Encore Computer Corp.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 16:05:34 GMT

>>In article <BzvL60.3M7@ssr.com>, sdb@ssr.com (Scott Ballantyne) writes:

>> In article <1h7vu4INNfem@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> shreeved@ece.orst.edu (David Shreeve) writes:

>> 	"The Art of Seeing" by Aldous Huxley
>> 	---Yes!, this is the same Aldous Huxley of Brave New World fame
>>	who did a good deal to popularize the Bates method in the 40s.
>> 	I guess he was near blind until he discovered Bates.

>> Huxley was not helped by the Bates method - he ended up nearly blind.

I just looked up Alduous Huxley in my encyclopedia, and his vision
history is stated as follows:

	1908 - Went blind due to keratitis (an inflamation of the
		cornea, due to infection or injury).

	1911 - Recovered sufficiently to read with one eye, using a
		magnifying glass.

	1940 - Moved to california, vision vastly improved by "special
		treatment".

	1963 - Died.

--

                                 +----------------+
Terence Kelleher              +--+-------------+  |
Encore Computer Corp.         |  | E N C O R E |  |
terryk@encore.com             |  +-------------+--+
607-687-2644                  +----------------+
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec)
Subject: Re: homeopathy
Organization: The Communications Research Centre
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 14:27:20 GMT

In article <BSIMON.92Dec23072656@elvis.stsci.edu> bsimon@elvis.stsci.edu (Bernie Simon) writes:
>Homeopathic dilutions of Cyclosporin have been used to treat AIDS. But
>an important point in homeopathy is the individuation of the medicine
>to fit the symptoms of the patient. That is, there is no one medicine
>that would be used to treat a kind of disease. Some AIDS patients
>would get Cyclosporin, others might get Mercury, or some other
>medicine depending on their symptoms.

Are you implying that non-homeopathic approaches are lacking
individuation of medicine or treatment?
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Ted Grusec - Communications Research Centre, Ottawa, Ont., Canada
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: robert@unlv.edu (Robert Cray)
Subject: Re: Cold and Flu treatment- questions
Organization: University of Nevada, Las Vegas
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 93 23:26:06 GMT

In article <BSIMON.92Dec29132545@elvis.stsci.edu> bsimon@elvis.stsci.edu (Bernie Simon) writes:
>Zinc Gluconate lozenges - 20 mg. lozenge every two hours

I've heard this on the net for years, and it seems to work for me.  I had
pretty much chalked it up to placebo, but then I found this, don't know
how legit it is, I haven't read the actual paper...

					--robert
UI  - 93012457
SO  - J Int Med Res 1992 Jun;20(3):234-46
TI  - Zinc gluconate and the common cold: a controlled clinical study.
AB  - A report in 1984 on the success of zinc gluconate against common
      cold symptoms could not be confirmed in three subsequent studies,
      which are now known to have used formulations that inactivated
      zinc. A non-chelating formulation including glycine, which
      releases 93% of contained zinc into saliva, was tested in a
      randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind trial in 73 young
      adults. Efficacy was recorded in symptom diaries using a symptom
      severity rating. Patients' symptoms first appeared 1.34 days
      prior to entry to the study in both groups. Disappearance of
      symptoms occurred after an additional 4.9 days for zinc-treated
      patients versus 6.1 days for placebo-treated patients. A
      difference was noted in the efficacy of treatment if it was
      started 1 day after symptom onset: cold duration was an
      additional 4.3 days in zinc-treated patients compared with 9.2
      days for placebo-treated patients. Cough, nasal drainage and
      congestion were the symptoms most affected, and only mild
      side-effects were noted.
AU  - Godfrey JC
AU  - Conant Sloane B
AU  - Smith DS
AU  - Turco JH
AU  - Mercer N
AU  - Godfrey NJ
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: skcummi@iastate.edu (Sheri K Cummings)
Subject: strokes
Summary: Strokes and resulting paralysis and aphasia
Keywords: stroke brain
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 17:51:00 GMT

My 19 year old nephew had a massive stroke about one year ago.  This
resulted from a catheter ablation.  He has made remarkable progress and
is walking and driving and is enrolled in a vocational school 
beginning in January.  He is currently unable to use his right arm
and cannot communicate like before because of aphasia.  Several months
ago I heard, I think on a Paul Harvey report, about something called
epidermal growth factor, and how it is being administered to older
stroke victims.  It had something to do with the creation of new brain
cells.  Does anyone have any information on this process?  Or any similar
experience with a stroke and the progress made after one year?
Thanks in advance!

Sheri Cummings                        Iowa State University
515-294-0207                          Ames, Iowa  50011
skcummi@iastate.edu
  
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet (Clover M.)
Subject: Re: Alternative Medicine Challenged, Modern Medicine Challenged
Reply-To: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 01:48:36 GMT

My grandmother spends a week a year at hot springs in Virginia, 
all expenses paid by Medicare, if I understood correctly.

She lives in Conneticut  half the year and Florida half the year.

Clover
Clover
la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
This is my very first sig.file
From: kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: homeopathy
Date: 3 Jan 1993 22:31:11 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center and Reptile Farm
NNTP-Posting-Host: grissom.larc.nasa.gov

In article <1993Jan3.201728.4425@netcom.com> kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski) writes:
>In article <1hssu9INNgpt@rave.larc.nasa.gov> kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov
>(Scott Dorsey) writes:
>
>>That's true, and without accurate double-blind testing, you don't really
>>have much empirical evidence.
>
>No, you *do* have empirical evidence (by definition), you just don't have
>bias from possible placebo effects removed.  And without a control group,
>you wouldn't have bias from other factors removed, either.

   You have evidence that is possibly invalid, and is therefore no evidence
at all.  As you have pointed out, a control group is essential (and something
I just generally assumed as part of the double-blind methodology).  The
difficulty is that placebo effects are so amazingly powerful.

>>This is a real problem with human beings, since we are such complex
>>organisms and there are so many possible influences.
>
>It's a problem in clinical tests, wherein the goal is to control each
>variable except the one being tested.

Yes, but if you don't control all variables except the one being tested,
you can never be sure of your results.  It's just not possible to control
all variables in the case of human beings, which is what makes testing on
humans so difficult.  I find it difficult enough to accept a lot of 
carefully performed tests because of the number of confounding variables,
let alone accept hearsay.

>But in homeopathic prescribing, it's not really a problem.  The homeopath
>just notes the value of a whole bunch of variables and finds the remedy
>that's been empirically noted to be effective for that particular symptom
>picture.

Yes, but what is effective for one person might not be effective for
another.  Just because it's been noted in one case doesn't mean that it's
any good at all.  Even if it's been noted in a whole lot of cases doesn't
mean that it will do anything.  It's possible that some medication might
have significant interaction with some environmental variable and work
very well for people in one area, but be useless on a group of people that
live somewhere else.  Without accurate testing, you'll never know.

>>After looking at how much testing the FDA does, how extensive
>>it is, and how lousy a job they do, it's obvious that testing anything on
>>humans with any amount of rigor is not an easy task.
>
>Yup.  Reductionism tends to create lots of little details to take care of.

But without a reductionist approach, you'll never be able to clean those
little details up.  And who knows?  Some of them may be crucial.
--scott
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski)
Subject: Terminology: "traditional" medicine
Organization: The Information Deli - via Netcom / San Jose, California
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 20:42:30 GMT

I've read a couple of posts using the word "traditional" to refer to the
opposite of alternative medicine.  I'd like to suggest that a more accurate
and less confusing term would be "conventional" medicine.

Conventional medicine may seem "traditional" at times, but strictly
speaking it's not propagated by tradition, and has really come into its own
only in the last fifty years -- as compared to thousands for traditional
Chinese or Indian medicine, for instance.

Pete
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski)
Subject: Re: homeopathy
Organization: The Information Deli - via Netcom / San Jose, California
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 20:17:28 GMT

In article <1hssu9INNgpt@rave.larc.nasa.gov> kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov
(Scott Dorsey) writes:

>That's true, and without accurate double-blind testing, you don't really
>have much empirical evidence.

No, you *do* have empirical evidence (by definition), you just don't have
bias from possible placebo effects removed.  And without a control group,
you wouldn't have bias from other factors removed, either.

>This is a real problem with human beings, since we are such complex
>organisms and there are so many possible influences.

It's a problem in clinical tests, wherein the goal is to control each
variable except the one being tested.

But in homeopathic prescribing, it's not really a problem.  The homeopath
just notes the value of a whole bunch of variables and finds the remedy
that's been empirically noted to be effective for that particular symptom
picture.

>After looking at how much testing the FDA does, how extensive
>it is, and how lousy a job they do, it's obvious that testing anything on
>humans with any amount of rigor is not an easy task.

Yup.  Reductionism tends to create lots of little details to take care of.

>Someone else pointed out that a lot of medications used by allopathic
>physicians also had no known mode of action.  Those make me nervous also.

At least there's generally a physically understood basis for *some*
sort of biological activity. :)  It is nice to have confidence about
what sort of activity it will be, though.

Pete
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative