HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Blake.Bowers@f5000.n410.z65.fidonet.org (Blake Bowers)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: Personal Messages
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1993 21:48:00 -0800

 -=> Quoting Roof Man to All <=-

 RM> From: bwh1248@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Roof Man)
 RM> Reply-To: bwh1248@ritvax.isc.rit.edu

 RM> To George, Bill, Phil, Pete, and everyone else using this net for
your
 RM> mail service,

 RM> Knock it off.  I, and I'm sure many other people, have many other
You know, I have been quiet on this subject for a while now, and have
seen
a lot of flames and holier than though attitudes coming from the
internet
side of the house.  I use a lot of other gated echos, and just don't see
it
elsewhere.  Why is it, youall seem to have such a problem?  Is it
something
you ate?
    But, alas, something should be done.  Most of us are trying to work

together, but then another jughead comes along and tells people to
"Knock it
off".  So, here is my contribution to aggravating you.  

     TO:  Any FD/EMS Personnel!

     PATCHES!!!!!
   We Have for trade, METROPOLITION NASHVILLE DAVIDSON COUNTY FIRE AND
RESCUE EMERGENCY FIRST RESPONDER patches for trade.  Will trade with
any
area.  These are the standard patches worn by the Metro FD and
Ambulance
service, ff-paramedic.  
   We no longer have NETMAIL capability, so send replys on the echo!




... Don't hit me, Mr. Moderator... I'll go back on topic... I swear!
 * Origin: Default Origin Line (65:410/5000.0)

Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
From: kra@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Kenneth R Aron)
Subject: Re: NYC-EMS
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 14:50:54 GMT

>>Richard Gutwirth: Many people will end up going to the hospital that don't
>>need to go to the hospital, because the ultimate authority not to take
>>them rests here in telemetry.  So what will happen is that we'll be
>>transporting someone who does not need (to go to the hosital, and while
>>we're doing this) a cardiac arrest will occur, and (we won't be there to
>>help).

>Huh? How is it possible in New York for a paramedic to take someone to the
>hospital that doesn't want to go? Do they have the authority to arrest the
>patient, or do they simply have immunity from kidnapping laws?

>-- 
>Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
>jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
>    "I don't want to read poor Microsoft bashing. I want to read good
>Microsoft bashing." -- Douglas A. Bell, in comp.os.os2.advocacy (Me too!)

That's not quite what he said.  The 'medic is saying that they
wind up taking people to the hospital who don't have to, but
there's no MD on the telemetry unit to give the OK.  Therefore,
the 'medics have to tx.  This doesn't imply that the patient
doesn't want to go, it just means the 'medics don't feel he/she
has to, but they have no choice.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong
on this one...

Ken


Kenneth R. Aron                 NYS EMT-Defibrillation            | |  / /
kra@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu      Columbia Area Volunteer Ambulance | |/ / 
                                Columbia University, NYC          | |\ \
"EMTs do it with patience"                                        | |  \ \
From: Steve.Sharp@f207.n714.z3.fidonet.org (Steve Sharp)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: HELLO!               
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 12:38:09 -0800

 -=> Quoting Shreyas Shah to Steve Sharp <=-

 SS> Hello,
 SS> I am a paramedic with New York City EMS. I see that you are an
 SS> australian FF. Do you guys also do EMS work or is that a
 SS> seperater entity?

G'Day Shreyas, no the Fire Brigade and the Ambualnce Service are 2
different
services, although both are run by the State Government.

We don't do EMS per se, but we are trained in BLS, either to assist the
Ambulance, or carry out BLS until their arrival on scene.

 SS> I would appreciate it very much if you could
 SS> write up a small piece about your system (size, how it runs,
 SS> average calls, types of equipment and a little about the area
 SS> where you work) for a small newsletter that I put out here in
 SS> NYC. I couldn't pay you but would be more than happy to send
 SS> you a copy of the completed issue. (BTW this is a free
 SS> newsletter for our station). You could post it here on the net
 SS> so that everyone could learn a bit more about you folks 'down
 SS> under'!. Thanks in advance and be safe.


Mate, not a problem, I'll knock it up next week when I'm back at work,
I'll
grab a copy of our annual report to get the facts and figures right!

The newletter would be welcome, how about we "make a deal", I'd love a
copy  
of the photo of the Firefighter in Turn-Out gear wearing handcuffs that
you
mentioned a while ago if that's at all possible?

 SS> Shreyas Shah NREMT-P
 SS> New York City EMS Station 34
 
Cheers, Steve.


... "Transporter chief Shah, beam the landing party to the bridge"
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11


 * Origin: Aussie Firefighters Work Better In Heat! SYDNEY AUSTRALIA
(3:714/207.0)
From: mladair@mtu.edu (MATTHEW L. ADAIR)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: EMS Clip art etc..
Date: 28 Jan 93 17:45:31 GMT
Organization: Michigan Technological University


OK folks, it seems like every couple of weeks somebody asks about
computer drawings of the Star of Life, Malteese (sp?) cross, and
other forms of clip art.  The problem is, nobody seems to want
to post the answers to the net.
 
With as often as these questions are posed, it seems like somebody
could put the answers up for everybody to see.  I am interested
in these too, but why shuffle mail through to a bunch of people when
it could be done in just one quick swoop.
 
If somebody would send me their sources for clip art, I'll be
willing to compile them and post them to the net.  It doesn't
matter what form they are in.  Bet it .gif, .pcx, pict, Macpaint,
.eps, whatever.  There are utilities that can conver from
one to the other.  So let me know as soon as you can an I'll
get them to the list as quick as I can.
 
Matt Adair  N8SHA     mladair@mtus5.cts.mtu.edu   or
                      mladair@mtu.edu
Superior Search and Rescue
American Red Cross Disaster Services
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
From: myersj@aix.rpi.edu (Jeffrey William Myers)
Subject: Re: no docs for NYC EMS
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 04:07:49 GMT

jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:

>In article <Pine.3.05.9301222117.A18490-c100000@sun.panix.com> dannyb@PANIX.COM (Daniel Burstein) writes:
>>Richard Gutwirth: Many people will end up going to the hospital that don't
>>need to go to the hospital, because the ultimate authority not to take
>>them rests here in telemetry.  So what will happen is that we'll be
>>transporting someone who does not need (to go to the hosital, and while
>>we're doing this) a cardiac arrest will occur, and (we won't be there to
>>help).

>Huh? How is it possible in New York for a paramedic to take someone to the
>hospital that doesn't want to go? Do they have the authority to arrest the
>patient, or do they simply have immunity from kidnapping laws

Down in NYC, they are allowed to call in to medical control and request
permission to release patients whom they feel do not need to go to the
hospital or do not require ambulance transport.  My understanding is this
practice is in place to help reduce over crowding and to get units back in
service quickly in an overloaded system to take care of the emergency calls.

Does any other system use this practice?

Jeff Myers
NYS AEMT-Intermediate
From: Jim.Love@f39.n272.z1.fidonet.org (Jim Love)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Certification
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 00:17:00 -0800

I am 17 years old, and a member of the Junior Core of the Mamaroneck 
Emergency Medical Service in New York, I will be 18 in August.  I am 
very interested in continuing my service as a full time member.  I am 
also interested in becoming an EMT.  How soon can I begin training, and

is it possible to begin training before I actually turn 18.
                                Thanks, Jim Love

 * Origin: Joe Brown's BBS, Mount Vernon, New York - 914 667-9385
(1:272/39)
From: Kenneth.R.aron@f102.n151.z1.fidonet.org (Kenneth R aron)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: NYC-EMS
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 14:50:00 -0800


>>Richard Gutwirth: Many people will end up going to the hospital that
don't
>>need to go to the hospital, because the ultimate authority not to
take
>>them rests here in telemetry.  So what will happen is that we'll be
>>transporting someone who does not need (to go to the hosital, and
while
>>we're doing this) a cardiac arrest will occur, and (we won't be there
to
>>help).

>Huh? How is it possible in New York for a paramedic to take someone to
the
>hospital that doesn't want to go? Do they have the authority to arrest
the
>patient, or do they simply have immunity from kidnapping laws?

>-- 
>Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which
can
>jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by
stupidity.
>    "I don't want to read poor Microsoft bashing. I want to read good
>Microsoft bashing." -- Douglas A. Bell, in comp.os.os2.advocacy (Me
too!)

That's not quite what he said.  The 'medic is saying that they
wind up taking people to the hospital who don't have to, but
there's no MD on the telemetry unit to give the OK.  Therefore,
the 'medics have to tx.  This doesn't imply that the patient
doesn't want to go, it just means the 'medics don't feel he/she
has to, but they have no choice.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong
on this one...

Ken


Kenneth R. Aron                 NYS EMT-Defibrillation            | |  /
/
kra@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu      Columbia Area Volunteer Ambulance | |/ /

                                Columbia University, NYC          | |\
\
"EMTs do it with patience"                                        | |  \
\

 * Origin: Gated by remote.fidonet.org (1:343/94)

 * Origin: Micro Message Service NCRTP (919)779-6674 TBBS 2.2M
(1:151/102)
From: Kurt.Ullman@f102.n151.z1.fidonet.org (Kurt Ullman)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: APPLE TO IBM CONVERSION
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 16:48:00 -0800

WY> ES>WE NEED INFORMATION CONCERNING CONVERTING APPLE FILES TO IBM
COMPATABLE
WY> ES>FILES.
WY> ES>OUR VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT SECRETARY HAS BEEN USING AN APPLE
COMPUTER
WY> ES>WITH APPLE-WORKS SOFTWARE TO CREATE SPEADSHEET, DATABASE AND
WY>WORDPROCESSING
WY> ES>FILES.  OUR DEPARTMENT IS PURCHASING AN IBM COMPATABLE COMPUTER
AND WANT
WY> ES>TO BE ABLE TO IMPORT OR READ THE APPLE FILES.  ANYONE OUT THERE
HAVE ANY
WY> ES>IDEAS OR SUGGESTIONS??


WY> One step further....what about a program that will go both
WY> ways...i.e., IBM to Apple   and   Apple to IBM.

        There is an Item called OPTION BOARD that lets you read, write
and format MAC disks on ann IBM. I haven't yet scraped together the
$119
needed to buy it..so all I have is a reccomendation by a buddy who uses
it. I haven't asked him directly but since he says it can read, WRITE
and format Mac Discs, it would seem to be likely to go both ways.
        My limited understanding of how it works is basically to
make your IBM drives "think" they are Mac drives while being used under
the Board.   Check around for more details.
 * Origin:  The RoadHouse BBS <ASP> 1-317-784-2147 (v.32bis)
(1:231/290.0)

 * Origin: Micro Message Service NCRTP (919)779-6674 TBBS 2.2M
(1:151/102)
From: James.Campbell@f145.n150.z1.fidonet.org (James Campbell)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: Fire Police
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 08:14:00 -0800

EM>                I am posting for you and others that are interested
 EM>        the Delaware Statue on Fire Police.
 EM>                                   TITLE 16
 
              Thanks Ed, it's always nice to have another copy.
              We have 3 new ones, I'll print this out for them.
        Including these 3, we have a total of 12.
 
                                                   Jim
 
 ---
    SMRead 3.0  #?    
 
 * Origin: HACKER'S BBS - NEW CASTLE, DE. (1:150/145.0)

Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
From: myersj@aix.rpi.edu (Jeffrey William Myers)
Subject: NREMT-Basic Exam Schedule?
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 04:46:52 GMT

Hello!
   I have a friend who is looking for a Nat'l Registry Exam for EMT-Basic
somewhere in the Capital District Area of NY or near by.  If anyone knows
of an exam coming up soon, please post the details or send me an e-mail and
I'll relay the info to her.  I'm also looking for a NREMT-Intermediate exam.

Thanks!

Jeff Myers
NYS AEMT-Intermediate
From: Steven.Spohn@f404.n2607.z1.fidonet.org (Steven Spohn)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Time till mutual aid
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 20:58:00 -0800

    Here in Berks County, Pa. we get 4 min. and then a 2nd disp. goes
out....after 6 min. if you are not responding mutual aid is disp.

   In Act 45 (EMS Act) of Pa., a BLS unit is not allowed greater then
10
min. to respond....but in Berks County they only allow 6 min.

   an ALS unit in the Eastern Pa. Region is allowed 3 min.


 * Origin: Keystone Public Safety BBS  Reading, Penna. (1:2607/404)
From: Don.Burton@f536.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Don Burton)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: SHIFT SCHEDULER LIVES
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 09:21:40 -0800

  John the new version of the Shift Schedular program has not arrived
as of this date but if you would like to try the old version you can
request FDSHIFTS.ZIP (see origin line) from my board, it should give
you an idea as to what the program is about.  As soon as the new
version arrives I'll drop you a note...
    

 * Origin: Sparky's BBS  916-771-0890  Roseville, Ca. HST*D/S
(1:203/536)
From: Alan.Eldridge@f17.n275.z1.fidonet.org (Alan Eldridge)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Monroe county oec shutdow
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 07:55:00 -0800

MS>Does anyone in the area know what happened today at the Monroe
County

MS>that they requested people to only call 911 if it is a 'life or
death'
MS>emergency.

MS>Is this all (or in part) true??  If so, it seems kind of funny to me,
to

I'm sorry (well not that sorry!) but yeah, it does look stupid. If you
can't call 911 for a life or death......
I guess you can change the routing. Call the nearest life squad or the
coroner, no middle ground.
 * SLMR 2.1a * I've got a little list, They'll never be missed."
 * RoseMail 1.70: *RACENET DRAGON BBS, NEW VIENNA,OH 513-987-2417 DS

PCRelay:CAROLINA -> #480 RaceNet (tm)
4.11                Rebel Rouser - (803) 871-9771 DS v32

 * Origin: The Computer Forum Va Beach, VA (804) 471-0736 (1:275/17)

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 10:17:14 CST
From:         Marco Antonio Esparza Esparza <AL283320@VMTECSLP.BITNET>
Subject:      Introd..

Hello everybody,
  I'm new on this discussion list.
 I'd really like to know people from this list, because i'd like to share my ex
periences to you all.
I'm from Mexico, and I'm what we call here "Socorrista", is something more adva
nced than a first responder but not as good as an emt-a.
Thank you for receiving me in your list, and I'd be glad of answering whatever
you ask.

Origin. Marco Antonio Esparza Esparza al283320@vmtecslp Mexico.
From: Marty.Garcia@f536.n141.z1.fidonet.org (Marty Garcia)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: HELP!
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 00:48:00 -0800

Thanks. Appreciate the help. I have since received the Brady book and
have
 been looking through that. Thanks again!!!

Marty

 * Origin: CT Emergency Consortium, North Haven, CT Fido 1:141/536
(1:141/536)
From: plaws@uafhp.uark.edu (Peter Laws)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: 888 = Triple 8 = Mars ?
Date: 26 Jan 1993 21:30:41 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

> We call this a Triple 8, or an 888.  It is 3 red lights mounted in a
> wye setup which has the center connected to a motor.  It is used as
> a warning light just as a red strobe light is used.  It was invented
> locally, hence your not seeing them in California.  It is not used
> for cooling the engine.
> 

  Hmm.  No ref. to cite, but I'm pretty sure this is not unique to your
area.  Seems to me that this is the configuration (I did *not* see the
video in question, BTW) of the original "Mars" light.  Yes, it's the same
guy as "Mars Bars".  Yes, there is a railroad locomotive version, although
in white, for grade-crossing protection.

  Another net.person *will* have details, no doubt.

Peter Laws|GEnie:P.LAWS1|"Finally: one of our guys is    |plaws@uafhp.uark.edu 
n5uwy@ka5bml.ar.usa.noam| driving the car"--Dennis Miller|plaws@uafsysb.bitnet
From: Paul.Vallone@f233.n321.z1.fidonet.org (Paul Vallone)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Personal Messages
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 08:04:00 -0800

BB>  -=> Quoting Paul Vallone to Blake Bowers <=-
BB>
BB>  PV> Hi Blake:
BB>  PV> I'll trade yah a Lanesboro,Fire Patch. And a Advance Cardiac
Tech
BB>  PV> Patch,for the patches ,which you have up for trading .
BB>  PV> Self Address:
BB>  PV> Paul Vallone
BB>  PV> P.o. Box 249
BB>  PV> Lanesboro,Ma 01237
BB>
BB> Paul, we saved the info, and will send out patches in about 1 week,
so
BB> that we can do all requests at the same time.  When you get ours,
send
BB> yours.
BB> Have fun.
Hi Blake:
Well I thank you very much,and I looking foward to trading Patches with
yah..

Thanks Again..


Paul Vallone
Lanesboro Vol Fire Dept
Lanesboro,Ma  
 
 * Origin: Whistle Stop BBS {Berkshire County Fire Board} (1:321/233.0)
From: Mike.Swiman.%.925/70@f15.n668.z1.fidonet.org (Mike Swiman @ 925/70)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: list
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 20:09:03 -0800

hi i am an explorer with metro-dade fire rescue post 1403 in dade
county
fl.  i am looking for a scanner at a cheap price and i am also looking
for a list of stations here if you could help me leave me e-mail


thanxs


 # Origin: Mole Hole BBS Systems - Miami,Fl (305)447-6668 (8:925/70)
 * Origin: Gateway System to/from RBBS-NET (RBBS-PC 1:10/8)
From: Don.Burton@f102.n151.z1.fidonet.org (Don Burton)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: SHIFT SCHEDULER LIVES
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 09:21:00 -0800

  John the new version of the Shift Schedular program has not arrived
as of this date but if you would like to try the old version you can
request FDSHIFTS.ZIP (see origin line) from my board, it should give
you an idea as to what the program is about.  As soon as the new
version arrives I'll drop you a note...
    

 * Origin: Sparky's BBS  916-771-0890  Roseville, Ca. HST*D/S
(1:203/536)

 * Origin: Micro Message Service NCRTP (919)779-6674 TBBS 2.2M
(1:151/102)

Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
From: myersj@aix.rpi.edu (Jeffrey William Myers)
Subject: Re: New User
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 04:40:48 GMT

Linda.Thole@f165.n2410.z1.fidonet.org (Linda Thole) writes:

>Hi, My name is Linda and I'm not only new to BBSing, but I've been a
>basic EMT for only 5 months.  I am enjoying reading all the information
>on this message base.  I was wondering if anyone could tell me if there
>are any other publications other than JEMS & RESCUE, that give good
>information dealing with the EMS.  I work in Detroit for a private
>ambulance company and really want to continue improving my skills as

Linda,
   I subscribe to Emergency Magazine which I consider a very good publication.
The self tests are very challenging and are divided into basic, intermediate,
and paramedic level situations/questions.

Jeff Myers
NYS AEMT-Intermediate
From: Steve.Collins@f505.n2613.z1.fidonet.org (Steve Collins)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Monroe County OEC shutdown?!?
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 19:51:00 -0800

 > From: sperber@ee.rochester.edu (Michael Sperber)


 > Does anyone in the area know what happened today at the Monroe
County
 > OEC/911 Center today??

I do, since I work there, and was directly involved witht the
situation.

 > I have heard something along the lines that they
 > had to shut down and evacuate the building for some reason.  Also I
 > heard that they requested people to only call 911 if it is a 'life
or
 > death emergency.

The City Public Safety Building filled up with fumes from a concrete
floor sealer. Several employees in various parts of the building,
including the 911 Center became ill.

The decision was made to activate our back-up facility. This facility is
small, and is designed for temporary operations only. It contains a
limited number of telephone trunk lines and radio positions.

The County OEP staff made the decision to ask the public to call 911
only if they needed immediate police, fire, or EMS response for the
duration of the situation, which lasted a total of 14 hours.

At no time was anyone ever advised to call only for a "life or death"
emergency. The intent was to keep the limited number of phone lines at
the backup facility available for true police, fire, and ems calls, and
not to overload the temporary system with calls for barking dogs,
parking complaints, and the like.

 > Is this all (or in part) true??  If so, it seems kind of funny to
me,
 > to request the public not to call 911 unless it is a 'life or death'
 > emergency.

Not the case at all, as explained above. Professional public safety
communications operators and managers made reasonable and logical
decisions to deal with a difficult situation.

Two years ago, during the ice storm that incapacitated a large part of
Western New York for two weeks, the same 911 center was inundated with
people demanding to know when their electricity would be restored. Since
this is not a 911 problem, the public was finally advised not to call
911 for things which should be rightfully handled by the local power
companies.

As many folks in this echo who work in public safety communications can
tell you, situations like this are not uncommon, and there are backup
plans already worked out for them.

 * Origin: Log Inn! Bloomfield NY USA 1-716-657-7660 (1:2613/505)

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Pro-Berks Inc.-Reading,Pa..The EMS Specialists.BBS.(215)929-4315
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:49:48 EST
Comments:     <Parser> W: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was
              retained.
From:         "Kenneth P. Lager Jr." <kenlager@PRO-BERKS.CTS.COM>
Subject:      Disney Fd...ETC

Larry,

        I am a firefighter at
Kutztown VFD and Marshall Twp. in PA.  My family will be visiting the
Disney area in April.  I was wondering if you had any frequencies for my
scanner while I am there.  Please get back to me ASAP.

Thanks,
Ken Lager


ProLine:  kenlager@pro-berks
Internet: kenlager@pro-berks.cts.com
UUCP:     crash!pro-berks!kenlager
From: Blake.Bowers@f5000.n410.z65.fidonet.org (Blake Bowers)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: Desperately seeking Motorola radio programs!!!
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1993 21:51:01 -0800

 -=> Quoting OPIE to All <=-

 OP> From: andyboyl@wam.umd.edu (OPIE)

 OP> I would appreciate any programs, information on how to acquire
them,
 OP> any ftp sites that might have them(maybe Motorola's?), or comments
Hopefully ROOFMAN will consider this a personal message.
    There is a company that is called Polaris Industries,
1-800-752-3571,
that has software, and the cables and adapters needed for what you
want.,
Hope this helps.

... Don't hit me, Mr. Moderator... I'll go back on topic... I swear!
 * Origin: Default Origin Line (65:410/5000.0)

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU