From: ahmed-shakil@CS.YALE.EDU (Shakil Waiz Ahmed)
Subject: Re: We Need A Hindu-Muslim Dialog (Was: Re: Muslim situation in India)
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 20:09:15 GMT


In article <1992Apr12.184108.15580@midway.uchicago.edu>, trivedi@curie.uchicago.edu (Anil Trivedi) writes:

> You don't have to see why. But please accept that those involved may
> feel differently.
> 
> Personally, someone may not see why Bangladesh has to be a separate
> country, or why all Jews don't become Christians, or why the Chinese
> students had to be so impatient about Western-style democracy, etc.
> But who cares? WHAT MATTERS IS THAT THOSE INVOLVED FEEL THAT WAY.

We might as well start talking about the weather.  You're pushing this
further and further from the topic on hand.  Lest you have forgotten
what we are talking about, the topic is the status of Muslims in India.

> This is not a math seminar going on in India: It is a CONFLICT,
> sometimes a bloody one.
> Conflicts are often fuelled by history as well as perception,
> mistrust, and suspicion.
> 
> Here is how a Hindu is likely to see it: An Indian Muslim, financed by
> the Saudis, writing from Saudi Arabia, is lecturing to Indian Hindus
> about the virtues not practised by those financing him.

The author is an Indian citizen who happens to be a professor of
Economics at a Saudi Arabian university.  You conclude from this that
he is "financed by the Saudis" to lecture to Indian Hindus?  By the
same logic, since you are at the University of Chicago, are we to
conclude that you are being financed by the US to lecture us on the
state of affairs in Saudi Arabia (I didn't mention India since you
clearly have no desire to discuss India)?

> Should it matter? Well, in a logic seminar, maybe not.
> Does it matter in real politics in the middle of an already heated
> situation? YES IT DOES. 

[Much gas deleted]

Once more, all you do is discuss why Saudi Arabia has a dismal record
of treating minorities.  Of course, the fact that there is basically
no religious minority in Saudi Arabia goes largely unnoticed.  More
importantly, however, you once more fail to address even a single
issue that the original author touched upon.  We are discussing
DISCRIMINATION AGAINST MUSLIMS IN INDIA.  If you feel they are not
discriminated against or that there is something incorrect about what
the original author said, PLEASE POINT TO THOSE LINES and express WHY.
Instead, you go off on an emotional tangent that discusses life in
Saudi Arabia, Iran, discusses the history of how various regions in
India have been invaded by different groups in the past, etc., as if
all that somehow justifies or explains the discrimination that the
author was referring to.  Not just once, but repeatedly.  And *still*
you have not proved *anything* other than the fact that you appear not
to be able to dispute what the author said.  An attempt at character
defamation on the basis of where the character lives is an extremely
cheap and ineffective means of arguing your case.  Decorating your
articles with lots of meaningless smilies don't make them any more
relevant to the point.

You attempt once more at starting another Islam-bashing feast by
stating that Islamic societies have the worst record of treating
minorities.  Perhaps a perusal of history books on how Christianity
spread in much of the world will do wonders to your sense of history.
But we are not talking about the past.  And we are not talking about
Saudi Arabia, Iran, Bangladesh, Malaysia, or any other country for
that matter.  We are talking about whether Muslims are discriminated
against in India and what the problems are.  Whether Muslims in India
identify with other Muslims in the east, west, north or south is
completely irrelevant to the issue because it does not explain whether
they are discriminated against, and if they are, why that is so.  If
you have anything at all to say on that issue, please do so.  If you
are merely going to go off on another world tour of criticizing random
societies, please spare us from another overdose of smilies and
fingerpointing.

-- Shakil