HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Will the king come back?
From: <ANTHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Friday, 20 Nov 1992 22:38:13 EST
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

Hi:

I am quite busy lately and becides the news on the TV while I am waiting for

the weather broadcast I lost track of the devalopments in Bulgaria and East

Europe.  For some time I am constantly asked from Americans "When the king is

expected to return to Bulgaria?".  Initialy I took this as a joke, but obviousl

y something is going on.  Today a guy told me that the slogan of 1993 in

Bulgaria will be "The king is alive!  Long live the king!".

It is actualy anuversary.  King Simeon was crowned in 1943 as long as I remembe

after the death of his father Boris III.

Haide pak sqs zdrave

M.A.
From: givanov@stipple.seas.upenn.edu (George Ace Maverick)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Answer to posting flames
Date: 17 Nov 92 07:20:33 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

I guess some people  misunderstood what I said. I know several people that 
 browse through this newsgroup occasionally. Now,everything is FINE if you
 know the language and you read this newsgroup, but how about the people who
 have no idea whatsoever of the language ? What do they do? (That was all I
 meant, think about it...)
Of course, there will be people who will have to post in Bulgarian because of
 the language barrier, but an indication of this in the title of the article
 might be really helpful. 
The "God-chosen people" part was interesting though.I guess you can see and
 interpret things anyway you want and who am I to change that
Although it's not too bad to see some activity on the newsgroup once in
 a while, please email me if you have any comments.
Later.
From: sutin@helios.UCSC.EDU (Brian Sutin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Re: Posting in English
Date: 17 Nov 92 19:00:13 GMT
Organization: Lick Observatory UCSC
NNTP-Posting-Host: helios.ucsc.edu

givanv@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (George Ace Maverick) writes:

->	Please, STOP posting articles in pseudo Bulgarian. We get a precious
->few nonbulgarian readers of this newsgroup as it is. Pseudo Latin/pseudo
->Bulgarian interpretations of the alphabet are annoying as hell!
->If you don't know English, tough luck, cause then you don't deserve to use
-> "the network"  in the first place.
->	Either hack Pnews, so it will accept redefined variations of the 
->standard ASCII character set without spilling out garbage, or QUIT posting
->gibberish!

->Later.

As English is the language of international communication nowadays,
why don't you just speak it at home too?  And eat only only American
food like McDonald's?  Preferably while listening to Rock'n'Roll and
watching American TV programs and movies from Hollywood?  Well, fuck,
why be Bulgarian at all?

Brian Sutin				sutin@lick.ucsc.edu
Lick Observatory, UCSC			Santa Cruz, CA 95064
    Fred:   "May I rescue you?"
    Ginger: "No, thank you.  I prefer being in distress."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
From: vladimir@cs.UAlberta.CA (Vladimir Alexiev)
Subject: Re: Latin->Cyrillic map
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Distribution: soc.culture.bulgaria
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:27:23 GMT

If you use an X windows system then you can read your mail`
in Bulgarian in Cyrillic letters. Proposals for this has already been done
in soc.culture.soviet. he following considerations should be bore in mind:

1. Any encoding/transliteration should be capable of mixed cyrillic/latin
messages. This is clear because at least addresses are in latin.

2. Nonwithstanding that the transmissions over Internet are 7 bit
it is much better to have a full 8 bit charset (both cyrillic and latin)
WHEN YOU EDIT YOUR MESSAGE ON THE TERMINAL AND WHEN YOU READ IT.
Some filter can be added between your editor and the mailer
which converts 8-bit to 7-bit code and between the receiving mailer
and the viewer for the opposite conversion.

3. The easiest conversion program would be one which just drops/sets
the 8th bit and adds some switching char to indicate transition
from latin to cyrillic and back. A switch has already been proposed:
/+ to switch to cyrillic; /- to switch back to latin.
Though not necessary, it is better if transliteration encodes
one cyrillic letter by only one latin letter/char.
Normally you will be editing/viewing messages directly
in real cyrillic so it doesn't really matter.

4. It is necessary to keep the 7-bit data human-readable so that
even someone without X windows could read it.

5. There are already standard codes which encode cyrillic "phonetically"
(a b w g d e ..) KOI-7 is a seven-bit code which replaces small
latin letters by capital cyrillic ones (it has been used on Pravetz 82).
KOI-8 is an 8-bit code which in the low half is simply ASCII
and in the high part copies KOI-7 and adds small cyrillic.
This means that in KOI-8 cyrillic small 'a' equals
latin capital 'A' with high bit on;
cyrillic capital 'A' equals latin small 'a' with high bit on.

6. In soc.culture.soviet they have already had problems with
this miscorrespondence between small and large letters.
It is counterintuitive to write bYLGARIQ, it's better to write
Bylgariq.

7. So I propose the following encoding of messages:
This is a sample message.
It starts with some latin text.
Then we switch to cyrillic and...
/+ Towa tuk trqbwa da e kirilica.
Moqta rodina Bylgariq e hubawa strana.
Sega ]e otida otnowo na latinica /-
And this is latinic again.

The alphabet in KOI-8 is:
abwgdevzijklmnoprstufhc`[]yx\q
ABWGDEVZIJKLMNOPRSTUFHC~{}YX|Q

On Macintoshes there is something like this:
abvgde'zijklmnoprstufxchw]xy[q
ABVGDE"ZIJKLMNOPRSTUFXCHW}XY{Q

Or we can come up with any "phonetic" encoding,
but it should be better one-letter.

8. Once again, you will have to write in pseudophonetic
cyrillic only if you don't have X windows but would like to
be understood by people who have it.

Right now I have no time at all to tackle this matter.
But I promise that no later than Jan 15 we will have
good cyrillic to communicate with.
The things (screen fonts and conversion routines) are already done,
(not by me), the only thing remaining to do is some touchups.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Excerpt from Vanche Mihailov's book wanted.
From: lihouba@dapsas1 (Christo Houbaviy)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:23:10 GMT
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science, Computing Centre

Hi folks,

Some time ago a chapter from Vanche Mihailov's book 'Macedonia a
Switzerland on the Balkans' was posted here. Unfortunately I've lost
the file and would very much appreciate it if some kind soul who has
kept a copy could send it to me.

Thanks,

XP|/|CTO


--
Christo Houbaviy [lihouba@dapsas.weizmann.ac.il]
Department of Molecular Genetics and Virology
The Weizmann Institute of Science, Rehovot, Israel
From: Marin.Guenov@newcastle.ac.uk (Marin Guenov (EDC - Cost Estimation))
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Anything goes
Date: 20 Nov 92 12:29:38 GMT
Distribution: soc.culture.bulgaria
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU


nexus@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Abstractor) writes:


>Absolutely agreed. Quite frankly, I find TIETZE's "transliterations"
>really disgusting and offensife. It is VULGAR to bastardize the latin
>fonts supported on Internet in this way. The question is not whether
>one should learn English to use the net or not, or if that's a
>privillege for English speakers. The core of the "problem" lies rather
>in the fact that the net is DESIGNED and MEANT to accept and use latin
>fonts and its beauty is in its convenience also. That's the current
>state of the matter and every perversion of the supported latin fonts
>not only looks ugly but it's very unconvenient and confusing.
>Want it or not, the physical carrier of Internet are computer systems
>produced, designed and licensed for use in the U.S. of A. Instead of
>being emotional and fussy about this fact, one should better learn
>how to use the equipment best for what it can do, instead of creating
>silly, prophanizing and controversial "transliterations".

>And I'm amazed, how narrow-minded people subscribing to this ng are
>not to recognize this fact and to speculate with "Maverick"'s post
>on politically and culturally biased basis.

>Thanks god, there are still few sensible people like Maverick on this
>ng.

Dear Abstractor,

I wouldn't be bothered  answering to your "abstractions" as far as
TIETZE's "style" was concerned. You could have written to him 
personally.
However from the above I understand  that you are not quite happy
with Bulgarian language being used on s.c.b.
Have you ever tried (if you can) to read s.c.french or s.c.italian 
for example?
Perhaps they can use their own language as soon as they don't  
"bastardize" the latin fonts. Does it make any difference if
you don't know the language? Or may be you are too much of
an aesthete!?

Meanwhile my humble advice to the s.c.b. contributors is:
"Please write in English as more people can participate in the ng.
However if you can't but want to share something, please don't
worry about "abstractors" or "abstractions" and  write in
Bulgarian, sticking to the phonetically closest combinations of
the "mighty" latin (american :-)) letters. Anyone who knows Bulgarian
will understand you.

Za sega moiat scromen savet e:
Molia pishete na angliiski za da mogat poveche hora da uchastvat v
tosi forum.
Ako vse pak ne znaete angliiski, no iskate da spodelite neshto, molia
ne se "striaskaite" ot "abstractori", "abstractzionisti" i "abstractzii".
Pishete na bulgarski kato se pridurjate kum fonetichno nai blizkite
combinatzii ot latinski (americanski :-)) bukvi. Vseki, koito znae
bulgarski, shte vi rasbere.

All the best

Marin.Guenov@uk.ac.newcastle
From: yavor@acpub.duke.edu (Yavor B. Parashkevov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Re: Posting in English
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:56:08 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

In article <97854@netnews.upenn.edu> givanov@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (George Ace Maverick) writes:
>
>	Please, STOP posting articles in pseudo Bulgarian. We get a precious
>few nonbulgarian readers of this newsgroup as it is. Pseudo Latin/pseudo
>Bulgarian interpretations of the alphabet are annoying as hell!
>If you don't know English, tough luck, cause then you don't deserve to use
> "the network"  in the first place.    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hey yo, Maverick-man! Dontcha think your' kinda bold? So what is it,
the Anglos, Yankees and Aussies are the God-chosen people, being
delivered into this world with the exclusive right to use "the
network"?! And everyone else should work hard to achieve the same
privilege? Good for you "the network" didn't originate in China, or
else you'd have to learn Chinese to *deserve* to use it!

I think that there are a lot of things one could learn from
non-English speakers, and everyone should be able to share their
thoughts on the net. In this group we've already had some articles
translated for the benefit of those who don't speak BG-ian, and it's a
good practice. Well, when things like adapting Latin script for
writing Bulgarian are discussed, obviously the discussion is of
interest mostly to people who speak BG-ian, so it doesn't matter if
it's posted in English or BG-ian. Plus, postings on this particular topic in
Bg-ian demonstrate the readability of each writer's version of the
transcription, which is exactly what the discussion is all about! Once
it's been settled, I believe that everyone will benefit by being able
to post, read and print out with minimum difficulty pieces of original
Bulgarian writing, such as poetry.

>Either hack Pnews, so it will accept redefined variations of the 
>standard ASCII character set without spilling out garbage, or QUIT posting
>gibberish!
>
>Later.

S-s-see-ya!!!


Yavor Parashkevov

e-mail: yavor@acpub.duke.edu
snail:  2422 W Club Blvd
        Durham, NC 27705-0325
        USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
From: A7571DAC@vm.univie.ac.at (TIETZE)
Subject: N.Y.: LO^RM KynoH B "BOX 3"...
Organization: University of Vienna
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 05:46:53 GMT


================================================================================
                         _D_E_K_^_A_P_A_U,_N_R_:

Deklariram xelanieto si, da se pridqrxam kqm slednite transkripcionni tablici:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
a b v g d e x z i j  k  l  m  n  o  p  r  s  t  u  f  h  c  ^c w  wt q  y  Q  @
A B V G D E X Z I J  K  L  M  N  O  P  R  S  T  U  F  H  C  ^C W  Wt q  Y  Q  @
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
a b   s g e #   u #  k  ^        o  n  p  c  m  y  %  x  u,    w  w, q  &     @
A   B L D E   3 N %  K     M  H  O  U  P  C  T  Y     X  U,  4 W  W,       Q  R
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vtorata predvixdam, da izpolzvam v po-redki slu^cai imitirajki _KNPN^NU,ATA_ |
================================================================================
Bmopama npegBu#gaM, ga u3no^3BaM B no-pegku c^y4au  uMumupa#ku _kupu^uu,ama_


Do vsi^cki bluxdaewti okololo N.Y. duwi|

Kakto do^cuh v "studio Manhatan" na Nikola Krqstev (RFE/N.Y.) minalata nedel@
ot 6-ti do 9-ti dekemvri v naj-skqpi@ restorant v N.Y. (menQ = $66) "BOX 3?"
wte ima velik kupon. Pritexatel@t - bqlgarinqt Avgustin? PI^CINOV? -
samoopisvawt se kato 'artist na scenata na xivota', prazdnuva 20-godishen
Qbilej. Do kolkoto razbrah, toj bi se radval da posrewtne i nagosti vseki
sqnarodnik, kojto se otzove na proglasenata ot nego pokana.

Mexdu drugoto negov e i 3-ti@ po ka^cestvo hotel v N.Y. "CAMEL?". PI^CINOV bil
moxe bi naj-wtedri@ daritel na US-universiteta v Blagoevgrad. Drug negov bqdewt
proekt bil prevrqwtaneto na pro^cutija Sofijski lokal "Pod lipite" v tipi^cna
bqlgarska krq^cma.

Na vsi^cki, koito wte otsko^cat do "BOX 3" xelaQ nezabravimo veselo prekarvane|

_B^agu_

P.S.: Makar, ^ce informaci@ta e dostoverna, moxe bi v imenata ima dopusnati
      foneti^cni grewki dqlxawti se na sqwtesstvoto na medium-a.
      Mol@ za korekcii.
From: zlatev@an.isl.titech.ac.jp (Rossen Zlatev)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: dumichka
Date: 20 Nov 92 04:01:51 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Imaging Science and Engineering Lab., Tokyo Inst. of Tech., Japan


	Zdraveite vsichki!

	Ot izvestno vreme se mycha da si spomnya edna ne mnogo chesto
sreshtana dumichka v bylgarskiya ezik. Eto i opisanieto i. Tova e 
"tokata" na jenskite kolani ot narodnite nosii. Ne e mnogo razprostranen
element ot nosiite, no lichno spored men mnogo krasiv. Mislya che tozi
jenski kolan e s trakiiski koreni. Pochti sym siguren.
	Imashe oshte edna dumichka - pafta. Dali pyk ne e tochno tazi
duma za koyato pitam. Ako ne, kakvo oznachavashe tya?
	
Blagodarya: Rossen
From: lb@cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Re: Posting in English
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:44:25 GMT
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <g4jqy2=@lynx.unm.edu> pvgunm@pioneer.unm.edu (Peter V. Gadjokov) writes:
[deleted]
>>	Please, STOP posting articles in pseudo Bulgarian. We get a precious
>>few nonbulgarian readers of this newsgroup as it is. Pseudo Latin/pseudo
>>Bulgarian interpretations of the alphabet are annoying as hell!
>>If you don't know English, tough luck, cause then you don't deserve to use
>> "the network"  in the first place.
>>	Either hack Pnews, so it will accept redefined variations of the 
>>standard ASCII character set without spilling out garbage, or QUIT posting
>>gibberish!
>>
>>Later.
>
>It is indeed highly regrettable that you find these postings infernally
>annoying. Unfortunately the Bulgarian language happens to be quite important
>to some people posting to this group and unless you could think of a better
>way communicating bulgarian through what you call "the network" gibberish 
>will continue to appear in the future and disturb your peace.

I'd like to Peter. For me it's faster to write in English but I honour
those Bulgarians who are in Austria, Germany, Italy and France and who
(most of them have working knowledge of English) can't express themselves
quite well in English. And some of them make quite nice contributions on
this forum. I'd prefer to stimul them, than to make them "QUIT posting".
Does the use of Pseudo Greek or Pseudo Russian make s.c.g. and s.c.s. some
kind of monsters or does that stop the non-Greek and non-Russian readers
participating in those groups? 

>I doubt that the knowledge of English is a requirement for using the INTERnet.

No - it's not. 

>Nor is tollerance.

Something which so many Bulgarians (i.e. we) lack :-(

> But while a lack of command of English may make communicationdifficult,
>lack of tollerance can make it IMPOSSIBLE.

nicely said !!! but for those who are really interested - it won';t.

> Hopefully the speakers 
>of Bulgarian only will eventually improve their linguistic skills. Similarly
>I hope you will adapt to seeing (or maybe even learn to understand) postings
>in Bulgarian.

I intend my last part of my next series of postings (I started it a long
time ago but don't ahve the time to complete it) on M. to be in Bulgarian
as I consider the topic important for Bulgarians and not for foreigners. Of
course I consider it important for those who are proud of being Bulgarians
and don't view themselves as part of a nation which is somehow lower than
those with whom we all have everyday contacts ...

>Peter V Gadjokov

Regards

Luben
Xref: sparky soc.culture.bulgaria:1718 soc.culture.greek:10846 soc.culture.europe:9769 soc.culture.yugoslavia:9697
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Re: OBSERVATION (nablyudenie)
From: lihouba@dapsas1 (Christo Houbaviy)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:04:59 GMT
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science, Computing Centre

In article <1992Nov17.202923.1705@msus1.msus.edu> radenski@msus1.msus.edu writes:
>In a well-commented article, givanov@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
>(George Ace Maverick) writes:
>
>>

[The posting that caused so many followups deleted.]

>>
>
>I read 15 postings following this one. Some of them were
>critical follow-ups on the above posting, others were on Latin
>representations of the Cyrilic alphabet etc. Amazingly:
>
>	1. There was not a single posting that agrees with
>the above one.
>
>	2. Practically all follow-ups advocate posting in Bulgarian.
>
>	3. ALL POSTINGS THAT APPEARED AFTER THE ABOVE ONE, EVEN THOSE
>UNRELATED TO IT, WERE IN ENGLISH.
>
>Interesting phenomenon, isn't it?

No. The original posting was in English and so the replies were naturally
also in English. It is common practice to post in English to this
newsgroup.

Why nobody agreed with Maverick (BTW what's this chap's real name)?
Because nobody on the net likes it when somebody tries to force his
views. And surely it is hard to agree with this person's views as to
who 'deserves' to use the Net and who doesn't.

None of the postings I read so far 'advocated posting in Bulgarian'.
People were just trying to say that if someone wants to post in
Bulgarian he should feel free to do so.

>>	Just curious: is there a Bulgarian who would write a regular mail
>letter to his/her parents in Bulgarian but using the Latin alphabet?
>I guess most parents would rather not hear from their children, than
>read Bulgarian in Latin. They are older people and they know that
>you cannot separate the language from the alphabet.

Not me, but I would send them E-mail in the Latin alphabet. And my
parents send me telegrams which I receive in the Latin alphabet. It
just happens that sometimes we can not use Cyrillic letters and must
communicate in Bulgarian. Whether one can separate a language from its
alphabet or not is off the point in this case. I just want to tell you
that we are lucky to be able to transliterate Bulgarian into Latin
chars. My Israeli colleagues are forced to write their E-mail in
English as there is no reasonable transliteration of Hebrew.

BTW, if language and alphabet can not be separated, then why did you
write your other article in Bugarian with Latin letters?

>Regards,
>
>Atanas Radenski
>

Likewise,

XP|/|CTO

--
Christo Houbaviy [lihouba@dapsas.weizmann.ac.il]
Department of Molecular Genetics and Virology
The Weizmann Institute of Science, Rehovot, Israel
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
From: A7571DAC@vm.univie.ac.at (TIETZE)
Subject: RFE_frq-korekciya + danni
Organization: University of Vienna
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 03:59:52 GMT

Korekciya + owte danni:

         Radio Free Europe (RFE) na Bqlgarski
+===========+====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+====+
:UTC(=GMT)+2: 49m: 41m: 31m:  25m:  19m:  16m:Band:
+===========+====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+====+
:16.00-23.55:         :9565:11770:           : kHz: (+ 89,1 MHz  okolo Sofiya)
+-----------+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+----+
:16.00-20.55:              :     :15115:     : kHz:
+-----------+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+----+
:16.00-19.55:              :     :     :17725: kHz:
+-----------+----+----+----------------+-----+----+
:19.00-23.55:6115:         :     :     :     : kHz:
+-----------+----+----+---------------------------+
:21.00-23.55:    :7155:    :     :     :     : kHz:
+===========+====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+====+
:   Power   :100 :100-250  : 250 : 250 : 250 : kW :
+===========+====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+====+
:   Transm. : B1 :B9/G13   : G4  : G14 : G12 :    :
+===========+====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+====+

Sorry,
      B^agu
From: givanov@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (George Ace Maverick)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Answer to flames
Date: 17 Nov 92 05:30:33 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

I guess some people  misunderstood what I said. I know several people that 
 browse through this newsgroup occasionally. Now,everything is FINE if you
 know the language and you read this newsgroup, but how about the people who
 have no idea whatsoever of the language ? What do they do? (That was all I
 meant, think about it...)
Of course, there will be people who will have to post in Bulgarian because of
 the language barrier, but an indication of this in the title of the article
 might be really helpful. 
The "God-chosen people" part was interesting though.I guess you can see and
 interpret things anyway you want and who am I to change that
Although it's not too bad to see some activity on the newsgroup once in
 a while, please email me if you have any comments.
Later.
From: givanov@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (George Ace Maverick)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Posting in English
Date: 16 Nov 92 18:30:14 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


	Please, STOP posting articles in pseudo Bulgarian. We get a precious
few nonbulgarian readers of this newsgroup as it is. Pseudo Latin/pseudo
Bulgarian interpretations of the alphabet are annoying as hell!
If you don't know English, tough luck, cause then you don't deserve to use
 "the network"  in the first place.
	Either hack Pnews, so it will accept redefined variations of the 
standard ASCII character set without spilling out garbage, or QUIT posting
gibberish!

Later.