From: bjoerns@stud.cs.uit.no (Bjoern Stabell)
Subject: Re: Splitting the group (somewhat long)
Keywords: PC, VGA
Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 18:12:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.204447.58244@cc.usu.edu>, sl8nl@cc.usu.edu writes:
] >         Please  get this  straight,    this group was   created  for
] >         discussions on   non-HW    specific  games  algorithms   and
] >         techniques.   If you don't  understand  why the  majority(*)
] >         react to VGA specific issues  being  brought up here,  you'd
] >         better review your net.understanding.
] 
] Funny thing is, HW related issues dealing directly with games had created
] the largest amount of talk in this newsgroup that I'd ever seen.

Yes, but don't you think there are people interested in those HW related
issues who don't read rec.games.programmer?  Surely, a more appropriate
newsgroup SHOULD exist.  Also, me thinks discussing the future of
rec.games.programmer is very relevant for this group. :)

] >         (like  someone  suggested we did   here).   Why not use  the
] >         appropriate newsgroup instead?  If  there is  no appropriate
] >         newsgroup, create one!
] 
] Because some of us don't have hours and hours to sit around moderating
] a group.  For those of you who don't know what it takes to run a newsgroup
] (let alone get one created), don't find out.  I attended several seminars
] this past weekend dealing with the subject.  As they kept rattling off
] the Usenet rules for creating newsgroups, I sunk further and further into
] my chair.

Very few groups are moderated, and I don't see any reason why
comp.sys.ibm.programmer.graphics or comp.sys.ibm.programmer.hardware
should be moderated.

So, if it's not moderated, it's not much work running.  At least I can't
see why it should be so much work.  Care to enlighten me?

] >         (If you don't have an appropriate newsgroup, you've only got
] >         yourself to blame.)
] 
] ** Flame on
] That's kinda like saying, "If you're a minority, yeah, like you freakin'
] niggers, hey, that's YOUR fault that you're black.  So I think that I'll
] harass you, and start wars on the street, and..."
] ** Flame off
]
] Disclaimer: I ahve nothing against blacks at all.  They are people, just
] like the rest of us, and color of skin should never be an issue.

Very unfair bringing blacks into this.  I simply meant that NO ONE WILL
CREATE A GROUP FOR YOU, you'll have to do it yourself.  As I see it,
and several other people has expressed similar opinions, programming-
hardware-on-PCs issues don't belong in this group and is popular enough
to deserve it's own newsgroup.

Blacks can't help being blacks (and whites can't help being whites of
course :), but surely - PC users can do something about being short of
newsgroups.  If you don't do it, you annoy everyone else on the net and
only end up hurting yourself.

] > PS!     Someone mentioned comp.lang.c  was infected too, as  I don't
] >         read comp.lang.c I'll   have  to take  their words   for it.
] >         Could   this indicate that PC  users  are having a hard time
] >         locating the correct newsgroup  or  is it  a sign that  they
] >         don't care where they post?
] 
] OK, think about this REALLY carefully.  If you've got a question about
] a game, how to program one, or how it was programmed, are you going to
] go to alt.msdos.programmer and ask the question to a bunch of people
] who usually care less about how a game is programmed?

I agree that you could post a query on rec.games.programmer, but a
lengthy discussion should be moved to some more appropriate group.
I beleive this is the general practice.

] Are we not allowed to ask how Ultima 7 was made because it is an IBM-
] only game?
] 
] >         This posting has hopefully clarified   WHY you have to  take
] >         care  when selecting the   right newsgroup.  That leaves the
] >         process of selecting the right  newsgroup.  I can't see  how
] >         this should be so hard, read the  FAQ's and decide (speaking
] >         of which, does this group have a FAQ?).
] 
] As a matter of fact, this group does have a FAQ, posted several hundred
] messages ago.

I got it, a proposed FAQ.  First part ok, but second part looked more
like a comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer.graphics FAQ. :)

] On a side note, we're both out of line here, mister.  And so are all of
] the other messages on this subject.  They all say, "Gee, this group is
] supposed to be here to ask questions about techniques and algorithms
] to program games", but this whole thread has been one complete argument.

Catch 22 eh?  Please, a discussion on this group's future is very relevant
to this group.

My side note:  I think all this discussing for and against HW related
issues in rec.games.programmer really should be in the Call For Discussion
part of a new newsgroup - comp.sys.ibm.programmer.hardware (or something).

Second side note:  comp.sys.ibm.* contains half as many groups as
comp.sys.amiga.*.  Two years ago (approx.) the Amiga society reorganized
their newsgroup hierarchy - the result was very good.  Maybe, if you
PC users cannot find your newsgroups, it is time for you to do the same?
The information flow on News increases steadily, with it comes the need
for better organization / more fractioning.  I agree that you cannot
subdivide a newsgroup endlessly, but issues that are not related should
be given their own newsgroup (and in my opinion "VGA programming on PCs"
and "maze algorithms" would be better off in different newsgroups).

Come on, like grown up kids, you have to leave your parents. :)


Sincerely,
-- 
                                                  Bjoern Stabell
                                                  University of Tromsoe
                                                  (+47) 83 44 053 / 83 75 164
                                                  bjoerns@staff.cs.uit.no
Newsgroups: rec.games.programmer