From: orhan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Orhan Mehmet Arsel)
Subject: Re: 21 divisions held by...
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 08:00:24 GMT

In article <9204051716.AA10413@kocrsw06.delcoelect.com> c23st@kocrsv01.delecoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
>>Orhan Arsel (apparently responding to articles Mr. Mutlu does not deem

>> 
>> Exactly right. When Turkey was able to hold 21 Soviet divisions and
>> three Air Wings near the Caucasus, she received quite a lot of respect,
>

>Did they hold them up for real, on the blackboard, or on a Super Nintendo?
>Even if the 21 divisions invaded, where would they go? To Romania and 
>Bulgaria? Mount Ararat? 
>

The Soviet Land based forces in the Caucasus region were mainly
directed to the Middle East with strategicly significant oil
reserves. These troops were believed to be capabale of reaching
the Persian Gulf region within two weeks if not encountered
by NATO foces (mainly Turkish plus NATO's Rapid Deployment Forces).
I believe I do not need to emphasize the importance of Middle 
Eastern oil to the West. Well, fortunately all this is ancient 
history now. 

But, if you are trying to be sarcastic about this issue, you 
definitely need to know that Turkey did more than its share in NATO
where Greeks were conveniently signing non-aggression treaties with
Warsaw Pact (Bulgaria) and goofing around (leaving NATO then coming
back, then threatening to leave again, etc.,etc.)

>> mainly from Germany. (Mind you that Turkey has the second largest armed
>> force in NATO and fifth largest in the world, which has been considered
>> as a significant threat by the Soviets).
>
>Isn't that what we said about Saddam H. and the Invaders (new rock
>group name?)? Even if the Turks would invade the X-USSR, what would that
>buy THEM? (several hardly used Chernobyl-style reactors maybe?)
>

For the sake of being funny, you are diverting this conversation
to nowhere.


>> But now that the Soviet threat
>> does not exist anymore, our friends in the west started to show their
>> true faces. I guess this has been a good lesson for Turkey since we 
>> now know better who our real friends are. Believe me, we all prefer
>a true rival to a fake friend.
>
>Oh Come On. Turkey's military significance ended (along with, say, the
>Iranians and a few other US and X-US allies) when high technology 
>gadgets started being introduced. Turkey could be a good base for 
>launching U2 and/or SR71 spy planes, or for listening posts. Satellites
>and other hi tech reduced the requirements by quite a bit. As the
>Gulf War proved, body count is not important. As the attack in Libya in
>86 proved, land bases are not important (isn't air refuelling great?)
>
>As far as the US and its allies spending money to keep the Turks 
>(or any other foreign aid recipient) happy, tell you what. All
><country> expatriates and <country> ophiles could mail an extra 5%
>or so of their US taxable income to the US state department in the name
>of <country>. Think of all the money highly paid professionals like 
>Hasan, Cosar, and Geoff Elliot (could not resist that, could I). People
>like what's her name at U of Illinois or other student types could
>donate less. 
>

Today, only the US can pull stunts like the in the Gulf War, and 
as long as a country is not encountering the US its military size
plays a very significant role especially in a pit hole like the
Middle East.

>foreign aid (read money to be used to buy more military equipment))
>have the nerves to ask for MORE? Just to keep Turkey (or whoever) happy?
>

The amount of military aid Turkey receives from the US is very 
insignificant as compared to her total military spending. (Turkey
received $600 million from the US last year, about 2/3 of it as credit
which is going to be paid back, as opposed to total military spending
of over $ 2 billion). This military aid becomes even more insignificant
when compared to what some other countries receive:

         Israel approx. $ 3 billion
          Egypt approx  $ 2 billion
         Pakistan approx. $ 1.5 billion
         Turkey approx   $ 0.6 billion (0.4 billion to be paid back)

>(statement above goes for money going to Greece as well. My favorite
>horror story is US helicopters (one owner, low miles :-)) donated to
>the Greek Air Force. Unfortunately, the powers that be insisted that
>rebuilding said helicopters be done not at the facilities of the
>Hellenic Aerospace Industry but at the facilities of a well known US
>defense contractor, at costs approaching purchasing said helicopters
>New)
>
>PS: I have no access to groups other than soc.culture.greek, you are 
>welcome to cross post my message. I only request you post it in its
>entirety and without artistic (or poetic) alterations.
>
>Spiros

Sincerely,

Orhan