HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pierson@cimcad.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson)
Subject: Re: Milwaukee Road Line Northwest
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 15 DEC 92 12:05:58    

In article <1992Dec15.093151@IASTATE.EDU>, dptodey@IASTATE.EDU (Dennis P Todey)
writes...

>Having been a Milwaukee fan since I was young, (their
>Kansas City line went through my hometown) I have
>always wondered where their line to the Pacific went.
>They had a line through to Rapid City, SD.  I think
>it went northwest from their, but I'm not sure.
>Can anyone fill me in on its route ?

	Not exactly, without maps, but the main was 150 or so miles north.
	I am most familiar with it thru Montana, where it manages to miss many
	of the major cities.  8)>>.  The Pacific Coast Extension crossed
	North Dakota, about midway up, then:
		North of Billings, Montana
		Harlowton, SSW to (Start Electrification)
		Three Forks
		W then NW to Butte,
		NW to Dear Lodge.
		W to ????
		NW to Avery, ID (end Electrification)
		W  to Spokane, Washington
		 (Split E of Spokane, with Passenger service entering Spokane
		 on GN(?) rails, freight swinging South around)
		W to Othello. (start Electrification)
		bypass Hanford to North
		W to almost Wenatchee,
		nw toCascades, upandover to
		Seattle, then South to
		Tacoma, via UP Trackage rights. (end electrification..)

	I have been in Rapid.  I believe the Milwaukkee trackage is still there,
	but largely moribund.  There is active freight service (at least
	during harvest time   8)>>) on C&NW(?).  There is a line NW out of
	Rapid to Sturgis (8)>>) and Belle Fourche, but i believe it stops
	up that way somewhere and never went thru.

thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
40 Old Bolton Rd		|I am the NRA.
Stow, Mass 01775 USA		pierson@msd26.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles
From: czl30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Chris Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: DRG Fairlie. Thanks for the info
Date: 17 Dec 92 20:42:01 GMT
Reply-To: czl30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Chris Lee)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

Thanks to everybody who replied to my request for information.

Garth is right, I bought Don Denevi's book at the Great American Train
Show in San Francisco a few days ago. It's a pity about the accuracy
because it's full of interesting old photographs.

I bought the book because of the photographd, and the picture of the
Fairlie was the clincher.

I'll have to try and get the issue of the Narrow Gauge and Shortline
Gazette that Roger mentioned.

I was suprised that it had fire doors on each side of the firebox. The
Fairlies I have seen on the Festiniog Railway are driven from one side
and fired from the other. This must have been quite a difficult job before
they converted from coal to oil firing, because the cabs are very cramped.
I can't remember if they had one or two fire doors. Although there was
a central firebox, it had a central separator to prevent the draught going
through from one boiler to the other, so they would either have had two
fire doors side by side, or one door straddling the separator.

I can't wait to see the Festiniog's latest Fairlie when I go back home
for vacation!

Thanks again, rec.railroaders!

Chris Lee
From: Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Switch Heaters?
Date: 15 Dec 92 02:26:59 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

> Tom Vervaeke writes:
>
> Do switches have heaters built into them to allow them to function in
> very cold weather? Currently here it's about -10 wind chill outside and
> about 1 foot of snow on the ground. I've never heard of heaters.


Switch heaters are propane-powered heaters that actually warm all the moving
points of a switch.  In CTC territory, it is essential that snow does not get
blocked into the switch.  The heaters are housed in small, silver shacks with
a stack on the top.  There is a silver flume that runs from the shack to the
switch.  The flume breaks into a large area which covers all the way from the
points to the frog.

Most railways have operating rules governing switch heaters.  Things such as,
"You cannot stop dangerous commodities (primarily Flammable Gas 2) on top of
a switch heater", since they are an open flame.


--

 steve_hooper@mindlink.bc.ca   []  The Great White North in
 OR      a777@mindlink.bc.ca   []   Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Conductor on the Cascade Sub.  []         CP Rail
                     Opinions are my OWN!
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: pierson@cimcad.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson)
Subject: CMStP&P RR
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 14 DEC 92 17:18:15    

In article <1992Dec14.030018.17276@bony1.bony.com>, billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill
Gripp) writes, in part:

>Wasn't the original name of the Milwaukee Road
>Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul, and Pacific?
	The original name escapes me, but Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul, and
	Pacific was a later name, ca 1910 and the project to extend to the
	Pacific.  I believe "Milwaukee Road" was never the official name.

thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
40 Old Bolton Rd		|I am the NRA.
Stow, Mass 01775 USA		pierson@msd26.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: zephyr@cory.Berkeley.EDU (COIFMAN)
Subject: Re: rails/nuc stuff
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 03:04:05 GMT

 While I was living in Minneapolis, MN, the local power company was
shipping nuclear waste past my back yard (literally!). If a train could
sneek, this is it. The track usually has one local on it four times a
week and you can always hear it. But one night I happened to be looking
out my back window and saw the consist, but heard almost nothing. It was
an engine, a caboose, a couple of cars, then two more cabooses. I found
out later that they ran a light engine on ahead of the nuke trains to
check the track. How do I know this? Well, one day, right before a nuker
was scheduled to go through, the BN put an engine on the ground one
block from my house. Aparently, some tree huggers decided to remove two
lengths of rail as a radical protest. It was kind of them to select my
neighborhood to do it in too.



    r++-----------,---,-------------.            Benn Coifman 
   /~____________/ ""||      @      |       zephyr@cory.berkeley.edu
  / o-o  (*) (*)  o :  o-o-o     o-o      zephyr@robotics.berkeley.edu

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: smb@research.att.com (Steven Bellovin)
Subject: NYS&W B40-8's
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:57:54 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

How many B40-8's does the NYS&W have?  I had read that they purchased
~24 of them, and I've seen pictures of a few.  But the latest edition
of the Kalmbach Diesel Roster book didn't list any.
From: mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: New York <-> Washington DC: air shuttle was better
Date: 16 Dec 92 10:50:16 GMT
Distribution: usa

As far as the car rental is concerned, Enterprise, at least, brought the car
to the airport (in Charlotte NC-- they don't have facilities at the airport)
and picked me up.  I suspect the same deal is may be available w.r.t Amtrak.
-- 
C. Wingate        + "The peace of God, it is no peace,
                  +    but strife closed in the sod.
mangoe@cs.umd.edu +  Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing:
tove!mangoe       +    the marv'lous peace of God."
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: zephyr@cory.Berkeley.EDU (COIFMAN)
Subject: Re: Milwaukee Road Line Northwest
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 02:17:25 GMT

> SD (I think Mitchell).  Trackage beyond there is "Dakota Southern
Railroad" to
> somewheres around Stamford, and abandoned beyond there.  The CNW line
into
> Rapid City is also now a short line, but I don't remember its name.

 That would be Dakota Midland and Eastern. They run over what was the
C&NW from Winona MN on the Mississippi to Rapid City SD



   p_n__n__----- _______             zephyr@cory.berkeley.edu
  d ___--__| HH||       `---.      zephyr@robotics.berkeley.edu
  _T-------'___-|___________|
 'o=o ()()()--'  o=o`---'o=o               Benn Coifman
          - NP 328 -
From: sfsmith@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Sandy F. Smith, Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: X2000 run on Thursday 12/10/1992
Date: 11 Dec 92 21:51:32 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Dec10.155708.16370@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>, jis@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (jishnu.mukerji) writes:
> 
> In article <9212100045.AA29140@inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com> FBCB@iunsys.iun.indiana.edu writes:
> >
> >For anybody who will be in the Philadelphia or Lancaster areas on Thursday,
> >December 10: Amtrak will hold a presentation and test run of the
> >X2000 trainset to the media between 10:00 and 2:00 pm. The
> >special run will be round trip between Philadelphia and Lancaster.
> >This run is not among the FRA "test runs" applied for by Amtrak.
> >What probably happened, though, was that two of the test runs
> >were successful (The Lancaster-Harrisburg and the Brunswick-Trenton 150
> >mph) that they decided to show its power to the media. What make this
> >more amazing if true is that the Harrisburg-Lancaster segment is 
> >still jointed, not welded rail.
> 

So is the Main Line Philadelphia-Lancaster.  To confirm your hunch:

I assume some of you on the net were up early enough this morning to catch
the "Today Show", which included (in the 8:00 AM news summary) an item on
the X2000 demonstration run, with film of the run, shots of the coach out-
fitted with recording devices, a shot of the (suit-clad!) engineer on the
run, at some unidentified point on the trip, receiving word that the train
had reached a speed of 100 mph, and eager-sounding quotes from an Amtrak
spokesman.  All in all, the kind of publicity Amtrak hoped for.

Had I known this was going to happen, I would have gone to 30th St Station
earlier in the week (the X2000 was on public display all week here) :-(

__________________________________________________________________________
Sandy F. Smith, Jr. ___________________________sfsmith@mail.sas.upenn.edu
Graduate Division, School of Arts and Sciences, University of Pennsylvania
16 College Hall, Philadelphia, PA 19104-6378.  (Opinions mine, not Penn's)
From: tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Switch Heaters?
Date: 14 Dec 1992 04:49:05 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: itchub21.cs.itc.hp.com

I'm sitting here reading notes at home and listening to the scanner.
There's a discussion between a dispatcher in Albequerque, NM and a
lineman regarding low/and or high power heaters for the switches at
several local switch points for junctions just north of Colorado
Springs, CO. 

Do switches have heaters built into them to allow them to function in
very cold weather? Currently here it's about -10 wind chill outside and
about 1 foot of snow on the ground. I've never heard of heaters.  

The lineman was informing the dispatcher that he thought they were set
to "low power". The dispatcher could not read something on his CTC board
correctly so he sent the lineman back out to check again.

Am I missing something?

Any information would be appreciated.



( ___ )------------------------------------------------------------( ___ )
 | / | Tom Vervaeke           Email: tom_vervaeke@0800.desk.hp.com  | \ |
 | / | Technology Specialist  Snail: 1900 Garden of the Gods Rd.    | \ |
 | / | Hewlett Packard Co.           Colorado Springs, CO 80901     | \ |
 | / | Colorado Springs, CO   Voice    : 719-590-2133               | \ |
 | / | USA                    Fax      : 719-590-2117               | \ |
 | / |--------------------------------------------------------------| \ |
 | / | Quote of the week...                                         | \ |
 |___|           Quote deleted do to lack of creativity !!!         |___|
(_____)------------------------------------------------------------(_____)
   ^                                                                  ^
From: raveling@Unify.com (Paul Raveling)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Question about boiler evaporation & thermal energy consumption rates
Date: 14 Dec 92 21:19:15 GMT
Organization: Unify Corporation (Sacramento)


	I'm looking for a couple numbers that some of you probably
	have at your fingertips, if not your follicle tips (that's
	the follicles that lie above the little gray cells)...

	What's the maximum rate of evaporation in pounds/hr, and
	corresponding rate of energy supplied by burning fuel in Btu/hr
	for:

	    (a) A late-model boiler; large, pressure ~300 psi,
		equipped with goodies to improve efficiency (feedwater
		heaters, superheaters, flue sanders, etc.)

	    (b) A fairly plain vanilla 19th century boiler, pressure
		~130 psi, no fancy widgets to help efficiency.

	One of the comparisons between these numbers would also benefit
	by knowing the boilers' normal operating water capacity.

	I don't need precise numbers, but if anyone has numbers
	to quote for particular boilers they'd be quite welcome.


------------------
Paul Raveling
Raveling@Unify.com

	P.S.:  Looks like I'll have time to resume posting some
	CSRM Inside Track news excerpts again later this week.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: roma@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Roma)
Subject: Re: C&NW Signals
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:53:49 GMT

wh20@iastate.edu (Gregory D Westwater) writes:

>	The Chicago Northwestern RR uses cab signals, and thus the only
>trackside signals are those used to signal interlocking plants.

This may be true in YOUR area but is not true of the C&NW in general.  The
North Western's Chicago-Omaha main line is the only part of the North
Western equipped with cab signals; the remainder of C&NW's system is either
equipped with conventional block signals or is unsignalled.

Parts of the Chicago-Omaha C&NW line in the Chicago area are equipped with
block signals in addition to cab signaling; other parts in the suburban
area do not have wayside signals, except at interlockings.  The north and 
northwest suburban lines in the Chicago area and the freight bypass to
the north use block signals exclusively.

The C&NW's Chicago suburban lines are also equipped with intermittent
inductive automatic train stop (ATS).  This is not a cab signal system but
requires that the engineer acknowledge each restrictive wayside signal in
order to forestall an automatic brake applciation.

>	Recently, I have been seeing more and more trackside signals, and when
>I talked to a railroad employee, he said it was part of the installation of 
>CTC.

At what locations is this taking place?  It's quite logical for this busy
main line to be coverted to CTC operation; the traditional double-track main
line with one track dedicated for each direction is definitely a fixture of
the past.  On lines with only moderate traffic, a traditional double-track
main line represents an excess of physical plant versus single-track CTC with
frequent passing sidings.  On busy main lines where traffic density warrants
retaining both tracks, CTC is the preferred method of operation because it
allows efficient routing of high-speed trains around low-speed trains.
North Western has a long stretch of double track with CTC in Illinois and
is probably gradually converting segments of its line in Iowa to CTC
operation.

>On Ocasion, I see a signal that appears to be in no way related to 
>interlocking, and I have been wondering if installation of CTC includes going
>to trackside signals, but I am not sure.

CTC does not in and of itself require trackside signals.  However, it's
quite possible that C&NW is either planning to get rid of the cab signal
system or is planning to supplement it with wayside signals.
-- 
Jon Roma
Computing and Communications Services Office,
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Internet:  roma@uiuc.edu      	UUCP:      uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!roma
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com.mcm.hp.com (John Mosbarger)
Subject: Re: Switch Heaters?
Organization: HP Cardiology Business Unit - McMinnville, OR
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:29:05 GMT

Tom Vervaeke (tvervaek@col.hp.com) wrote:

[.....deleted.....]

: I waited in hope of a southbound train so the switch would have to be
: reset. No luck. Had to make it home to the family for dinner
: (priorities!!!). Was assuming the heater might come on prior to the
: switch moving.

     What priorities!  There's always fast food!! :-)

: Question:
: --------
: 	  How much force is exerted when the switch is moved? Locally
: 	  the track is controlled by the Sante Fe dispatcher #10 from
: 	  Albequerque, NM. I was sitting there thinking what would
: 	  happen if an animal or human had his foot in the switch when
: 	  it started moving. Would it be strong  enough to cause serious
: 	  damage or is there a sensor to sense resistance? Also, how
: 	  fast do these things move?
: 
: 	  Is there a decent book someone could recommend on CTC and
: 	  switches (or both)?

     Just a simple word of warning:  Stay away from *any* remotely controlled
switch or derail!  Yes, a switch motor can ruin your day.  It usually takes
around 5 or so seconds from the time the points start moving until locked.
The motor will start turning prior to the actual movements.  As far as I 
know, there is no sensor; switch points sometimes are not adjusted too
finely and there will be some drag.  The dispatcher's board will indicate
if the switch has locked, in either normal or reversed, and an unlocked or
in-transit mode.

     The best book I know of is "All About Signals," by John Armstrong,
and I believe it is long out of print.

     (BTW, the best place I know of to watch switch motors at work is the
north end of the "Columbia Draw," on the BN at Vancouver, WA:  6 derails
and a crossing with movable points)

John
--
*****************************************************************************
| John Mosbarger          |    You know why many people commit suicide      |
|                         |    during the holidays?  It's because they're   |
| HP McMinnville, OR      |    forced to spend time with their relatives.   |
|                         | 	                  --John Belushi            |
| johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com |                     	                    |
|***************************************************************************|
|                     Opinions are mine and mine alone.                     |
*****************************************************************************
From: "chris welber" <chris.welber@execnet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: model railroaders
Date: 17 Dec 92 03:20:01 EST
Reply-To: "chris welber" <chris.welber@execnet.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Executive Networks Information

Is there a usenet area for model railroaders?


Thanks!

Chris
---
  DeLuxe 1.25 #9364  
--
Executive Network Information System  (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host
From: raveling@Unify.com (Paul Raveling)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: CSRM Inside Track news
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:29:15 GMT
Organization: Unify Corporation (Sacramento)


	News excerpted from the California State Railroad Museum's
	internal newsletter, the CSRM Inside Track, follows.
	Everything is a direct quote except the item titles and
	anything I've interjected in square brackets.

	Items here are a few selections from both recent and less-recent
	times in the past couple months...  it looks as if my personal
	spare time will begin allowing more frequent posting again,
	not to mention catching up on my current duty-deficit at the Museum.


    Steamer maintenance & restoration  (from 3 different issues of Inside Track)
    ---------------------------------
    
	George Sapp is busy ordering new tubes to retube Sierra
	Baldwin 2-8-0 #28 at Jamestown.

	SP has declined to move our replacement tender for 2-6-0 No. 1771
	down from Dunsmuir...the air brakes were last serviced 16 years
	ago!  Hopefully, we can truck it down late this week.

	We met with the NWP Historical & Technical Society last week
	regarding cosmetic work on 1908 NWP 4-6-0 No. 112.  Preliminary
	estimates are $54,250 for static restoration to its circa 1938-1952
	appearance...$57,250 if repainted two-tone green.


    CSRM coming events & attractions (from Inside Track dated Dec. 7)
    --------------------------------

	...Our second annual California Railroad Festival is June 18/19/20...
	over Father's Day weekend...a week later than last year.


	Walter Gray and Dick Troy had a successful meeting in the
	Governor's office last week...favorably laying groundwork
	in the front office for support of our Technology Museum!!

	[That's MORT, Museum of Railroad Technology, to be the
	sixth & final phase of CSRM.  It's still on what I call
	the 'begging for bucks siding'.]


    One of the 'thoughts for the week'
    ----------------------------------

	The shortest distance between two points is usually under repair.	


------------------
Paul Raveling
Raveling@Unify.com
From: tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Switch Heaters?
Date: 15 Dec 1992 17:03:04 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: itchub21.cs.itc.hp.com


Hi. I'm the original poster of this one. I visited Palmer Lake yesterday
evening after work to look for the switch heaters. Didn't find any! A
little background: From Colorado Springs up to Palmer Lake (about 15
miles) it is single track, called The Joint Line.  From Palmer Lake
north and from Colorado Springs south we have double track. The railroad
use the local track: Burlington Northern, Sante Fe, and Southern Pacific
(the old D&RGW). The Joint Line is all CTC. It has a number of sidings
in it's 15 mile run - I'd saw at least 6 or so, some >= 1 mile in
length.  

I visited the main switch at Palmer Lake where the single track meets
the double track.  There was obviously a switch, with its assorted power
connections, etc.., but no heater of any kind. No propane tank, no
natural gas line (I looked for a meter). I felt the switch and all
surrounding equipment with my hand for heat and did not find any (it was
about 10 degrees F outside). This is a busy intersection. Within about
15 minutes two northbound BN empty unit coal trains came whizzing by. I
checked the switch each time and no heat.  I did notice that indeed the
ballast has been removed below all portions of the switch mechanism.

I waited in hope of a southbound train so the switch would have to be
reset. No luck. Had to make it home to the family for dinner
(priorities!!!). Was assuming the heater might come on prior to the
switch moving.

Question:
--------
	  How much force is exerted when the switch is moved? Locally
	  the track is controlled by the Sante Fe dispatcher #10 from
	  Albequerque, NM. I was sitting there thinking what would
	  happen if an animal or human had his foot in the switch when
	  it started moving. Would it be strong  enough to cause serious
	  damage or is there a sensor to sense resistance? Also, how
	  fast do these things move?

	  Is there a decent book someone could recommend on CTC and
	  switches (or both)?


( ___ )------------------------------------------------------------( ___ )
 | / | Tom Vervaeke           Email:tom_vervaeke@hp0800.desk.hp.com | \ |
 | / | Technology Specialist  Snail: 1900 Garden of the Gods Rd.    | \ |
 | / | Hewlett Packard Co.           Colorado Springs, CO 80901     | \ |
 | / | Colorado Springs, CO   Voice    : 719-590-2133               | \ |
 | / | USA                    Fax      : 719-590-2117               | \ |
 | / |--------------------------------------------------------------| \ |
 | / | Quote of the week...                                         | \ |
 |___|           Quote deleted do to lack of creativity !!!         |___|
(_____)------------------------------------------------------------(_____)
   ^                                                                  ^