From: wendy@sundown.mil.wi.us
Subject: Re: Self Appreciation (was: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?)
Organization: Nowhere
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Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 18:42:16 GMT

Peter Nelson (nelson_p@apollo.hp.com) wrote:
> In article <celeste-181192142820@128.158.16.248> celeste%express@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov (Celeste) writes:
> >>    How do those who hold this view square it with the opinions 
> >>    of posters like the above?   Transexuals will frequently claim
> >>    that they "feel like" a member of U sex in a V body.   Indeed,
> >>    interesting philosophical questions are raised by just asking
> >>    what it means to "feel like" a member of a certain gender.
> >>   
> >>    I am a male.  I am physically attracted to females, which makes
> >>    me heterosexual.  I have a variety of personality characteristics
> >>    and might feel happy, sad, driven, angry, elated, wistful, melan-
> >>    choly, silly, and so forth at various times.   Yet despite all
> >>    of this I'm not sure what it "feels like" to be a man.   That is, 
> >>    I can't associate any of these feelings with "maleness" and 
> >>    obviously I don't know what it "feels like" to be female, either.
> >>    So why/how does the above poster think she (he?  --what's the
> >>    correct pronoun?) does?
> >> 
> >If you don't "feel" a disonace between your gender and your body,
> >then you are not a transsexual. Feeling like a women in a male
> >body is like describing colors and color harmony to a
> >blind person.
> 
>   I think this answer is a cop-out.   I can feel a dissonance,
>   for instance, between an occasional self-image as young,
>   athletic, and graceful, and the physical reality of being
>   40-ish, a little paunchy, and klutzy.    The point is that
>   I can describe both the reality and the image and extract
>   the "dissonance", i.e., the places they don't match.   
> 
>   If an MMPI (Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory --
>   a standard psychological test) were to be administered 
>   to transexuals and non-transexuals, what differences would
>   it reveal?   Would the MMPI for biologically male transexuals
>   be more similar to non-transexual biological females?
> 
> 
> ---peter
> 

Peter,

 First, the dissonance that Celeste mentions is significantly stronger
 the the "occasional" dissonance you mention. It is almost unbearable.
 In my case, I sometimes feel like trying to rip my brain out of this body 
 and find a female body to put it in. It is more like PAIN and HURT.

 Now, with reapect to the MMPI. As part of my evaluation I was required
 to take the MMPI-2. The MMPI-2 is an updated version of the MMPI that
 has been updated, especially in the area of gender. Stereotypes that
 could be used to force the test to show male or female associations were
 removed. There are also scales, apparently, to determine whether one is
 fudging the answers. I scored exceedingly high in femaleness (over 
 80 percentile) without fudging. Most biological females would be expected
 to score high like that also. The rest of my test results were what would be
 expected from a biological female or very close. Whether this applies to anyone 
 else, I don't know. I am also trying to describe what my therapist told me, and
 hopefully I haven't misstated anything.


Wendy
Newsgroups: soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men