From: jim@doink.b23b.ingr.com (James B. Reed)
Subject: re: That sin thing
Reply-To: jimreed@b23b.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 15:24:22 GMT

In article <4460.29E9A20F@umagic.FIDONET.ORG>, Christian.Walters@p0.f14.n373.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Christian Walters) writes:
|> >Whether or not that's a design flaw is an interesting question that
|> >assumes quite a bit.  The biggest assumption is that we can somehow
|> >judge God's design.  I don't understand all God had in mind when He
|> >designed things, nor do I understand how everything works, therefore
|> >I am incapable of determining whether or not there are flaws.
|>  
|> Oh, there are flaws. Logic tells us that. And if logic leads us astray,
|> then our minds are flawed. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but this
|> sounds too close to the "it is not for us to question the workings of
|> the Lord" arguments that have had me pulling my hair out in frustration
|> for years :)

Later on you question how a finite being can have a relationship with
an infinite being.  Similarily, how can a finite being question the
working of an infinite being?

|> >Sin is not necessarily a plotted evil.  Sin means missing the mark,
|> >failing to live up to God's standards whether in a "major" or "minor"
|> >way.
|>  
|> So God will send us to hell if we don't repent of things that weren't
|> our fault?

I don't think what you mean by "our fault" matches what I'm thinking about.
The Bible contends that we are given free will to chose what we do.
It also states that everyone has "goofed up" (or will goof up for those
not yet born).  You seem to see a contradiction here, but I don't.

From previous postings of ours we both seem solid in our respective
points of view and unable to "convince" the other we're right.  Sounds
kinda like a stalemate to me :-/.

|> >> Do I still get to burn, because I can't believe in God?
|>  
|> >"Can't", "won't", or "would rather not"?
|>  
|> "Can't." I don't have any choice in the matter. I just DON'T believe in
|> him. "Won't" isn't a good phrase, because it implies control over your
|> beliefs. "Would rather not" isn't any better, because it implies that
|> your desires affect what you believe.

I didn't mean to appear critical there.  For some people "won't" is
accurate ("stubborn" might describe them as well :-).  For others
"would rather not" applies because they aren't completely stubborn,
but their desires do affect their beliefs.  "Can't" (or don't) is
different in that there is no underlying stubborness (or whatever),
there's just the simple absence of belief.  As you have indicated
earlier, this absence could be changed by an act of God, but it's
not likely anything less will do.

|> Well, we failed at defining a miracle. Maybe we could define a
|> relationship? A relationship with an infinite being is not similar to
|> the relationships we have with each other.

Similar perhaps, but certainly not identical.  The relationship
between God and man is often compared to the parent-child relationship.
My relationship with my daughter is similar, but certainly not identical
to her relationship with other 1.5 year olds.

Maybe someday I'll have more time to post about this relationship.

-- 
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