From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Prisoners or Hostages?
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:44:26 GMT
	<22356@venera.isi.edu> <BuDnMC.13H@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute
In-reply-to: eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu's message of 10 Sep 92 19:32:35 GMT

In article <BuDnMC.13H@news.cso.uiuc.edu> eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Edward A Shnekendorf) writes:
>
> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
>
> >In article <BuBwLH.Fty@news.cso.uiuc.edu> eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Edward A Shnekendorf) writes:
> >> . . .
> >> Rabin cancelled 11 deportation orders which are targetted, not against
> >> suspects, but against actual terrorists and terror organizers who have
> >> seen their day in court.
>
> >The same nonsense we have seen repeatedly on tpm.  Deportation orders
> >are not, and never have been, applied to "actual terrorists" nor are
> >they a legal punishment for any other sort of crime.
>
> >Deportation is an administrative measure imposed at the discretion of
> >military and/or government officials, just like administrative
> >detention.
>
> Those who are targetted to be deported have the right to appeal to
> Israeli courts with full appeal rights such as the right to a lawyer.

More nonsense.  I don't know what you consider "full appeal rights", and
I may be overly demanding, but personally, I would include among such
"full" rights being informed of the charges against me.  Wouldn't you?
People targeted for deportation are *not* informed of specific charges
against them.  They don't really *have* to be -- after all, it is an
administrative measure, not a judicial one.  The grounds for appeals can
therefore be only technical, such as a mistake in identifying the
deportee, lack of authorization on the part of the official who signed
the order, not providing enough time getting legal advice, etc.

> Whether they are or aren't a legal punishment is a whole different
> subject.

Different than what?  *You* stated (look above!) that "deportation
orders ... are targetted ... against actual terrorists ... who have seen
their day in court".  I took that to mean that you believed deportation
was a from of punishment imposed by a court.  Well, it's not.  And it
doesn't necessarily have anything to do with conviction, not even one
handed down according to the loose definition Israeli military "judges".
Deportation can be, and has been, imposed on people who had never been
convicted of anything.

> However, what deportations are not equal to is administrative
> detention.  A deportation order entails a lot more legality and formal
> use of the legal system.

More nonsense yet.  Both deportation and administrative detention are
authorized by the same Emergency Defense Regulation.  They are both
imposed without any "formal use of the legal system".  In neither case
are any formal charges made, and they can both be appealed only on
technical grounds.  What "more legality" are you talking about?
--
Yigal Arens        "You'd think [Bush] was running for First Lady instead
USC/ISI            of for President."     Bill Clinton, commenting on GOP
arens@isi.edu      attacks on his wife.   LA Times, 8/20.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast