HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sanjiv@cse.unl.edu (Sanjiv K. Bhatia)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Mandir/Maszid/Girza/Gurudwara
Date: 11 Dec 1992 20:29:42 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cse.unl.edu

secular@love.and.respect.for.all writes:

> [ ... ]

>                                             Let's build the 
>world's first *multireligious shrine* at the site.  Let's make the
>BIGGEST and the most BEAUTIFUL Hindu temple, Moslem Mosque, 
>Sikh Gurudwara, and Christian Church side by side as four 
>corners of a square.  That would be a perfect salute to 
>secularism and (hopefully) also satisfy the Hindu fundamentalists
>and BabriMaszid faithfuls alike.

Finally, some good things have started to appear on the net.  Now, if only the
fanatics could agree to pray together ;-)

Sanjiv
--
Sanjiv K. Bhatia		Department of Mathematics & Computer Science
sanjiv@redbird.umsl.edu		University of Missouri -- St. Louis
voice: (314)-553-6520		8001 Natural Bridge Road
				St. Louis, MO 63121-4499
From: P.S.Susarla@massey.ac.nz (P.S. Susarla)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Secularism.. Overkill.
Keywords: communal carnage
Date: 14 Dec 92 03:29:22 GMT
 <1992Dec11.190431.20260@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> <1992Dec12.005943.28371@crd.ge.com>
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c



Mr. Srinivas,

Think of your position before questioning others credibility, as to
whether they are educated or not!!! I strongly object to your remarks in
your posting like `` shame on you'' etc etc.. which are unwarranted.

I appreciate your knowledge about geographical features of hyderabad
district. I too come from the same place.

Do you sincerely believe that the ayodhya events are not the making of
politicians? Do you think they are caused by some fanatics? If you read
your posting you are contradicting your self on many points..

I disagree with your posting..it is like a child's posting..

Susarla
From: tchowdhr@dvlseq.us.oracle.com (Tripatinder Chowdhry)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.india,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: HELP FOR THIS ISSUE
Date: 10 Dec 92 23:00:07 GMT
Organization: Oracle World HQ, Redwood Shores, California
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <ByzDAC.CF8@ns1.nodak.edu> penu@plains.NoDak.edu (Suresh R. Penu ) writes:
>one of my friend is teaching a class for a undergraduate course and he
>feel in love with his student.  Now his position is such that he can't
>express it to her.  There is one more problem in this issue,he used to go
>to their house and he knows her parents very well.  Now he wants to tell
>that he wants to marry her, but he is afarid that their partents may think
>bad about him. And one more thing is that her father is a professor in the
>same school.  And it seems that she will be transfering to some other
>school after this semester. I am really confused here with this kind of
>situation and if any one can provide a good solution so that nothing goes
>wrong. 
>  Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
>  Suresh 

Dear Mr. Suresh:
	I feel very sympathetic towards your friend.  He fell in love
with his student, student's father is a professor, your friend wants to
marry her, but she is going to another school; your friend must be going
through lot of crises. But you did not mention anything about the
girls feelings.  It may be that she wants to leave the school to get
rid of your friend.
	But anyway your friend needs to READ the TA CONDUCT guidelines again.
His involvement with his student can lead to DISCIPLINARY action against
him,  further he needs to be extermly carefull of the FAther,
he could get your friends grades screwed up.

trip
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: krishnan@ra.csc.ti.com (Srinivasan Krishnan)
Subject: A Joke
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:33:31 GMT


If BJP leaders visit the US in which hotel would they like to stay?

'Rama'da Renaissance

Krishnan
From: fafat@usc.edu (Vijay Fafat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: re:who's doing the killing
Date: 13 Dec 1992 14:42:33 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

Subu writes:
>How can we assume that the stupid mob was a Hindu mob?
>Why couldn't it be that a bunch of muslims who wanted the mosque rebuilt by the government destroyed it?
>
>Subu

	This weak attempt at humour might not be entirely wild. While the
	"Foreign hand" theory has always been a favourite of the GOI (notably
	RG) to	absolve itself, some speculate that the ISI (Inter Services
	Intelligence) of Pakistan might be behind the current disturbance.
	If that's true, this was one hell of a fine move (talking objectively)
	 to discredit GOI in the International eye.

	FFT




Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (The Purple Bleeder )
Subject: Re: Proud to be a Hindu !!!!
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 06:07:16 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network


To all the people who are not ashamed of being Hindus count me in.
Do not bother about these secularists who just masquerade their
secularism to show that they *belong* to the intelligentsia.
Just plain ignore them when they label u as a fanatic. On their
part their hypocrisy just stinks. Hinduism is *inherently*
secular religion and the moment u are a Hindu u are secular..

Respect other faiths, whatever they are but be proud to be Hindus
and one need not bow one's head in shame because one is a Hindu.
Look into the eyes of people of other faiths like real men
shake hands and be proud ambassidors of ur Hindu faith. But
at the same time let us not cower down when attacked.

To all those Cong-i politicians who barter our country to
anti-national elements for votes.....shame on u!!!

S.h
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: sundara@sceng.ub.com (J. Sundara Ganesh)
Subject: Re: Mandir/Maszid/Girza/Gurudwara
Organization: Ungermann Bass, Inc.
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 04:05:35 GMT

In article <1gb3ckINNm96@tamsun.tamu.edu> gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal) writes:
>Path: pippen.ub.com!UB.com!uunet!olivea!charnel!rat!usc!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!gagrawal
>From: gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal)
>Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
>Subject: Re: Mandir/Maszid/Girza/Gurudwara
>Message-ID: <1gb3ckINNm96@tamsun.tamu.edu>
>Date: 11 Dec 92 22:06:11 GMT
>References: <1gar4cINN2am@alhena.usc.edu> <1992Dec11.142252@IASTATE.EDU> <1992Dec11.204809.19648@udel.edu>
>Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
>Lines: 25
>NNTP-Posting-Host: neuron.tamu.edu

>In article <1992Dec11.204809.19648@udel.edu> kazi@hercules.cis.udel.edu (Zunaid Kazi) writes:
>>>> 
>>>> [...... deleted.....]
>>>> 
>>>> >that one religion is better than the other.  Let's build the 
>>>> >world's first *multireligious shrine* at the site.  Let's make the
>>>
>>>How about a pentagon with a fifth corner devoted to atheists like me ...
>>>We need to be represented too.  We need a place where we can meet and discuss
>>>the stupidity of the people who follow `religious books' rather than think...
>>
>>Maybe a sixth, for people who don't care whether a God [or Gods] exists
>>or not.

>How about a seventh, for people like me who consider themselves 'God'.
>:-)

How about three more for Buddists, Jains and Ramakrishnites.  How come 
everyone has forgotten these religions.  Hmmmm.  Looks like one should 
create enough troubles to make a presence.  Sick world indeed!!

Sundara Ganesh

*************** INSERT STANDARD DISCLAIMERS HERE ***********************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: kannan@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Kannan Subramanian)
Subject: Re: Hinduism and Islam in the 21st Century
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:48:45 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <9212141702.AA14762@ho12.eng.ua.edu> bkannan@ho12.eng.ua.edu (Balaji Kannan) writes:

>  Hindu fundamentalism *is* a modern phenomenon unless I have missed out
>  on history. As an organized religion [which is itself debatable],
>  Hinduism has never had problems embracing people of other faiths or
>  in coexisting with them. Pl. don't point out stray incidents to refute
>  that. 

I have realised quite suddenly that I do not know what "fundamentalism"
(whether ancient or modern) means to different people. So, I will stop 
talking about it.  

What I'm interested in really is understanding the source of fanatic zeal  
of a socially harmful and violent variety and conflict resolution. 

It seems to me that the history of Hindu peoples as an actively tolerant 
culture is not sufficiently marvellous. They may certainly be regarded as
peace-loving and while they may have "co-existed" with various sub-cultures
within the Hindu faith as well as "foreign" cultures, the notion of equality
of all cultures was never a part of it. Given that the Hindu society itself 
coagulated into a morass of multi-layered feudal and caste hierarchies, it
was always possible for a Hindu, upon meeting a new culture at high noon, 
to relegate it somewhere below the lowest rungs of the already existing 
social order and thereby "co-exist" with it. 

This enabled them both to co-exist peacefully as long as their struggle for
power and privileges did not bring them to war. Notions of superiority by 
birth or caste-affiliation, and a fanatic zeal for preserving rigid codes of  
social order are and have been as much a part of Hindu society as various 
acts leading to peaceful co-existence. 

Having said all this, let me hasten to add that my intention is not to single
out Hindus (or Muslims) for rabid criticism. My point is that in a struggle 
for power, Hindus are as gullible and likely to be whipped up into a communal
frenzy as Muslims or Christians. There is nothing inherently tolerant about 
Hindu _citizens_. (Hindu _philosophy_ may be a different matter altogether). 
Just as Babur's atrocities toward his Hindu subjects are irrelevant today in 
our treatment of Muslim citizens today, "Hindu tolerance" of _yore_ is an 
equally irrelevant consideration. That much talked about Hindu tolerance needs 
a shot in the arm _today_. 

As for conflict resolution, I am convinced that education emphasizing 
secularism at all levels grass-roots up, is the answer. If the RSS can instil
discipline, brotherhood, belief in the Hindu cause etc, it's time the 
cause of secularism were ignited on a similar scale. 

>>Balaji
>
>>-kannan
>
> Balaji Kannan :-)

-kannan (no. no balaji before or after). 

ps - i may have tread on some toes somewhere above. well, polemic
     weilds a biased brush. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: jagan@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (subbarao.jagannatha)
Subject: BJP Govt Dismissals
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:49:46 GMT


I feel the internal power struggle in Cong(I) with
Arjun Singh dominating was one of the main reasons
for dismissing BJP governments in 3 states. The 
casual dismissals also prove that the governors 
and presidents are mere "rubber stamps" of the central
governament.

Arjun Singh wants take a revenge against BJP. You may recall
the cases filed against him in Churhat lottery scandal in MP.
PVNR seems to be loosing his decision making power in the
government. Sharad Pawar is also loosing the battle because
of large scale violence in maharashtra.

What next? I wouldn't be surprised if they ban BJP to achieve
a default victory in all elections. If the political parties
do not stop minority appeasing for political gains, hindus
will continue to show their anger and frustration in various
ways.

The current situation is a mockery of both democracy and secularism!

Peace,
-Jagannatha

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: cs707ab@maccs.mcmaster.ca (Aftab)
Subject: Re: Indian/Pakistani Food in Boston Area : any opinions?
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 06:29:12 GMT

In article <85118@ut-emx.uucp> croesus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu () writes:
>
> I would like to find out if you have experienced good indian food
>in the Boston area.  Good food may mean spicy food, or really
>good bread, or really good value..to different people..
>all opinions will be welcome, and if i get enough responses i will
>post them in a summary posting.
>I am sure good indian food exists in this area, but it seems to have
>slipped off the professional food critic's focus, and that is too bad.
>
>

Don't know about the Boston area ... but here in Hamilton ... I picked up
a Pakistani "shehenshahi biryani" at an Indian restaurant for a Potluck dinner 
in my dept. since they asked to bring food from one's home country preferably.
:-)  :-)

Turned out to be pretty good .... except the black hair in it!  :-)


Kamran Aftab

I once had a .sig saying "Finally I learned how to do this" and after all the
mails I received asking about it .... I'm not gonna repeat the mistake!
From: samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Ayodhya And Its Aftermath - Some Points To Ponder.
Keywords: rtight-wing, revivalism, foreign hand.
Date: 13 Dec 92 20:10:32 GMT
Reply-To: samaddar@siemens.com

vivek@ecst.csuchico.edu (Vivek R. Prabhu) writes:

>forget his name, who was the eye-witness to it. During all so-called, 
>deadlines that the VHP, or BJP, had given to the Govt. Of India,  and 
>which had lamely passed away,  none  of these foreign correspondents,   
>were present. Was it because of the fact that they were privy to some 

You mean that 200,000+ "kar sevaks" had plans to assemble at the site
before and the foreign correspondents nevre bothered to show up??

Sumitro
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:41473 news.answers:4663
From: kat@doe.carleton.ca (Kathiravan Krishnamurthi)
Subject: Re: The Fall (out) of Babri Masjid : part 2
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:02:12 GMT

In <Bz0EyE.C28@cs.psu.edu> narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana) writes:
>In article <1992Dec9.201928.11667@cs.wayne.edu> uds@trace.eng.wayne.edu (Seetamraju Udaybhaskar) writes:
>>In article <Bz09pL.7IA@cs.psu.edu> narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana) writes:
>>>In article <1992Dec9.180139.7136@cs.wayne.edu> uds@trace.eng.wayne.edu (Seetamraju Udaybhaskar) writes:
>>>>
>>>>The muslims who stayed, stayed because this was their home.  None of the
>>>
>>>I can understand the gut feeling! If you go to a villiage and ask
>>>a muslim, why did you stay back? He will say of course it is my home.
>>>If, on the other hand, you ask, would you have stayed if you did
>This not true. In specific schools this may be. I have very many muslim
>friends who are indian in body, blood and soul. But these are the Hindus
>of the muslims or Aryans to put simply.
                   *********

 Finally the aryan theory!
>>
>>Seetamraju Udaya Bhaskar Sarma
>>(email : seetam @ ece7 . eng . wayne . edu)
>>
  Kathiravan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
From: sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani)
Subject: Re: Who's doing the killings...
Summary: Religion (of Allah) is also a religion of self-profit
Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:55:48 GMT

In article <lioealINN61f@pageboy.cs.utexas.edu>, hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder) writes:
> In article <1992Dec13.232337.11340@sol.cs.wmich.edu> sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani) writes:
> :In article <limq18INN50g@pageboy.cs.utexas.edu:, hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder) writes:
> 
> : : Let's also include in this list of religions, the religion of
> : : self-profit or the religion of non-religion.
> :
> :I would still like to know, how can we conclude that
> :
> : Religion of NO-RELIGION is a religion of SELF-PROFIT.
> :
> 
> Without doubt my prayers, my sacrifices, my life, my death
> are for Allah who is the provider of all the worlds. 
> 	[my rememberance of a verse in Quran]
> 
> If I do not subscribe to the above, then all of myself be
> for my own self-profit!
> 
> 
> 
> 

Well, we can say that muslims (since you mentioned GOI) also
do (whatever they do) for self profit, since they try to gain
more POINTS in the eyes of GOI. Or they may be trying to save
themselves from burning in Hell (or whatever). So you every
religious act (as defined in Islam) can be viewed as an act
of self-profit.

BUT, I wont argue that way, because, in about 2 hours I will be
on my way to Pakistan/India.

I will send you an email if I get any fundamental insights on
this topic  in India/Pakistan.

As beofre, if SCPians are interested in meeting in Pakistan.
My phone number in Karachi is 547501, and I will be
in Karachi from dec 17 - 31. 

regards,

-Naveed


Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
From: narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana)
Subject: Re: Narrow Hindu Beliefs- was- Ram (Was he Fact or Fiction)??
Organization: Penn State Computer Science
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 02:31:58 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.223854.7645@news.clarkson.edu> rajat@sunny3.che.clarkson.edu (Rajat Kapoor) writes:
>>> 
> Per known facts, Mahabharat and Ramayan were written in 400 and 300 BC,
> and were subsequently modified, so much so, that the versions by 100 AD
> brought the characters together, not to mention Ram was by then
> introduced as an Avtar of Vishnu.

Just to make a correction! There are some rituals of Yajurveda which
require that Itihasa-purana be read on some nights of the ritual. Which
means that the purana, which was later consolidated into mahabharata,
is as old as yajurveda. The dating of these vedas, and how long the
bard tradition existsed, prior to committing the slokas to text is really
unknown. Thast is where the notion of ancient becomes important.

If you can believe darwin's theory of evolution (which is only a theory)
you can as well believe all the scriptures. but blind belief and believing
as a learned person are different; where as the former is ignorance,
the later is knowledge. the same the person weho condemns  scriptures
and scriptural knowledge as irreevant is also ignorant, even more so.


> Rajat Kapoor

..kt
From: khan@ces.cwru.edu (Mansoor Khan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Dilip Kumar
Date: 12 Dec 1992 09:24:11 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: king.ces.cwru.edu

>>> I always wonder, why few muslims uses hindu name for gaining social
>>> respect, social acceptance in the indian society..As Dulip Kumar who is

	What about Santosh Kumar and Derpan who were famous movie
	actors in Pakistan. They were both muslims. I wonder if they
	cared more about gaining "social respect, socail acceptance in
        the indian society" :-)


>>> a true muslim but to get an identity he goes with hindu name..
>>>
>>> But that seems a good sign for developing harmony between muslims and hindus
>>> our muslim brothers may help us on this issue.   
>>>
>>>
>> That's the stupidest thing I've heard. How hiding yourself be good???
>> 
>> 
> Rakesh Patel

>
>ANY movie star, including Indian (muslim) ones get names from their producers
>directors or managers, this is for marketing purposes, not HIDING purposes.
>It is absolutely inane to think that he is trying to hide himself, when if you
>listen to him speak it only takes you 5 seconds to figure out he's a muslim.
	
>
>His urdu is absolutely amazing.

Your logic that Dilip Kumar's "absolutely amazing" Urdu means  he is a
Muslim is not all that correct.
If you hear the President of Cleveland's Bazm-e-Adab (an Urdu Poetry Club),
you will realize that his Urdu is even more "absolutely amazing". And for
your info he is an Indian Hindu.
And by the way, Dilip Kumar was born in what is now Pakistan
and is a native Pashtoo speaker. Urdu is not his mother tongue.
 

>
>Stop trying to build more barriers between hindus and muslims. There is enough
>trouble in our country already. 

>Vidur Sood.

Mansoor Khan
Cleveland, Ohio

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: seeta@eng.wayne.edu (Seetamraju UdayaBhaskar Sarma)
Subject: Re: progress in India!
Reply-To: seeta@eng.wayne.edu
Organization: College of Engineering, Wayne State University, Detroit Michigan, USA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:09:22 GMT

In article 1gqietINNs5q@lns554.TN.CORNELL.EDU, vj@lns598.tn.cornell.edu (Vivek Jain) writes:

-+>When RG sided with the fundamentalists in the Shahbano case, it was said that
-+>he took India back to the 13th century. With the demolition of the mosque, I 
-+>guess you could say we went back to the 16th century. So, in a way, we have 
-+>made tremendous progress (300 yrs. worth) in less than a decade. At this rate 
-+>we will get to the 21st century quite shortly.


The queen !!!  		Bring back the queen's rule !!!  (If she gets kicked out
of GB, then let us make her OUR queen..>!!!)


That oughta bring us to 1940's :::-- close to the discovery of the silicon transistor...!!!
The silicon revolution will then be a quite close..!!!



Seetamraju Udaya Bhaskar Sarma
(email : seetam @ ece7 . eng . wayne . edu)

Fantastic joke....  One of the very few, that are valid outside the cyberspace...


Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: kannan@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Kannan Subramanian)
Subject: Re: 3 BJP ruled state govts. dismissed
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:13:26 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

>     NEW DELHI, India (UPI) --  ...
>    
>    [ ... ]
>
>     Most of the preventive detention laws permit authorities to imprison
>people without trial or charge for periods between three to 12 months.
>Indian law does not block authorities from re-arresting under a
>preventive detention act those freed under a similar but separate
>statute.
>     Before the latest violence flared, India -- the world's most populous
>democracy -- already had more than 10,000 political dissidents, ethnic
>rebels and other separatists in jail under such laws, according to
>Amnesty International and Asia Watch.

I find this quite incredible. Allowing detention without trial or charge for 
three to twelve months seems to be tailor-made for abuse of power and 
violation of human/individual rights. 

At what level of authority/responsibility are these arrest decisions made? 
This seems to be a serious chink in the law that compounds the problem of 
restoring the faith of citizenry in the democratic/judicial process. 

It is not sufficient to lament that we are crumbling as a nation of laws.  
Our laws require as much scrutiny as our souls. 

-kannan
From: janand@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Jayaraman Anand)
Subject: Re: Reconversions (was Re: Babri Masjid demolished)
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:12:36 GMT

In article <samaddar.724025290@dumbo> samaddar@siemens.com writes:
>mirza@vxcrna.cern.ch (MIRZA,I./EP) writes:
>
>>>If Islam has spread by Sword and by the force then why Muslims(converted) 
>>>still like to remain Muslims and not rejoin their old faith. 
>>>^^^^^^^^^^  
>>>Bye 
>>>Adil 
>>>  
>>	In Spain after fall of Qurdaba several thousand moors were 
>>	converted to christianity by force in only one day. Why they 
>>	dont get back to their orignal religion Islam? 
>
>I suspect that forcibly converted people (a) hate their original religion
>for having failed to protect them and (b) as a psychological defence mechanism
>start believing that they really converted willingly, or (c) like the so
>called "Stockholm syndrome" get brainwashed by their tormentors and turn
>into willing participants.

	Also, the existing muslims in India were not the originally
	converted people. It was their ancestors who were converted.

J Anand.

-- 
!!!!!!!!!%-----+++++=====/**##!!!!!!!!!!!!!/**##=====+++++-----%!!!!!!!!
When you don't know what to do, walk fast and look worried.
!!!!!!!!!%-----+++++=====/**##!!!!!!!!!!!!/**##=====+++++-----%!!!!!!!!!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian