HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Motorist snitching (was Re: Do HOV lanes work?)
Date: 6 Jan 93 19:37:23 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Delco Electronics Corp.

In article <1if8a3INNh7@gilligan.East.Sun.COM> mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori) writes:
>As far as criminalization goes, they have an 800-number here.
>All someone has to do is take your tag, call it in, and you
>get a ticket. Even better than photo radar... Be kind to your
>fellow man, or he may scream "Witch!", and point at you...

Indiana has had an 800 number to report people that maintain cars
with out of state plates; (since Indiana excise tax on automobiles
is quite high, i.e. $400-500 per year for an average new car).

Now our founding fathers have come up with a discreet *form* that
one can use to snitch on their fellow citizens. The form is available
at all Dept of Motor Vehicles offices. It's probably strategically
placed after the cashier, so after one has his/her blood boiling
paying $500-$800/year in plates for a good car and a clunker
they can pick up a few copies and use them to anonymously nail
the 'scofflaws' that get around the problem by out-of-state registrations..

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
Xref: sparky rec.autos.driving:7458 or.general:783
From: randyg@pogo.wv.tek.com (Randy Gibbons;6853178;63-356;LP=A;P0fG)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,or.general
Subject: Re: Interesting ticket....
Date: 8 Jan 93 19:17:45 GMT
Followup-To: rec.autos.driving
Distribution: or
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville, OR.

I sent something to Edward on this but now that I think about it, it seems 
worth posting to the net.  If Edward feels the ticked was unfair then this
may be worth pursuing.  If on the other hand he was speeding then why even
ask?  If the speeding ticket was a consequence of his actions, then accept it.
Why is there such a strong tendency to avoid the consequences of our actions?

-- 
Randy Gibbons
Tektronix GPID
randyg@pogo.WV.TEK.COM
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,rec.autos,rec.auto
From: whs70@dancer.cc.bellcore.com (sohl,william h)
Subject: Re: -- REQ info- Book by Police Officer --
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 22:39:40 GMT
Keywords: avoid tickets, speeding fines etc. helpful info

In article <1993Jan6.215013.23122@b30.ingr.com> neeraj@b30.ingr.com (Neeraj Tulsian) writes:
>	Last summer there was discussion about a book
>	written by a retired officer (from NY ?) on 
>	different aspects of dealing with the police
>	regarding traffic violations and related topics.
>
The book is entitled "Speedres Guide to Avoiding Tickets" by Jim Egan.

I was at a hearing today with Jim Egan and other members of the National
Motorists Association in Trenton,NJ to support the passage of two
bills (A1830 and A-1831) which, if enacted, will raise the rural
highway speed limit in NJ to 65.  Unfortuinately the committee
these bills are in took no action to move the bills to the full
assemble yet.

The book by Jim Egan is available from NMA by calling their
800 number (1-800-882-2785).  When calling, why not inquire
about joining NMA also if you are another frustrated driver.

Standard Disclaimer- Any opinions, etc. are mine and NOT my employer's.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Sohl (K2UNK) BELLCORE (Bell Communications Research, Inc.)
Morristown, NJ             email via UUCP      bcr!cc!whs70
201-829-2879 Weekdays      email via Internet  whs70@cc.bellcore.com

Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: krc@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (kenton.cabiness)
Subject: Re: How to answer the Officer when pulled up?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 23:30:39 GMT

In article <1if3t5INN247@network.ucsd.edu> judy <judy@nepac.ucsd.edu> writes:
>Re: How to answer the Officer when pulled up?
>
>How about "I was going as fast as the car(s) in front of me?
>My speedo has been out for over a year, and that's actually how
>I gauge my speed (as long as the tach works, I have a relative
>idea anyway) when the LAW is around...

Or my favorite:  I don't know, my speedometer only goes to 85.
I got the ticket, but it got a good laugh from the cop! :-)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: kornblum@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Aaron Ethan Kornblum)
Subject: Re: Do HOV lanes work?
Followup-To: rec.autos.driving 
Originator: news@nimaster
Keywords: Tiger Hoops in NCAAs in '93 
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 08:45:58 GMT

  If you want to see HOV-lanes in action, go to Washington, D.C.

  Several major routes to and from the city employ restricted lanes: I-95, I-66,
Route 1 and the George Washington Pkwy (through Alexandria) are some
that I remember offhand.  Some are HOV-2, others HOV-3.

  Do they work?  Good question.  Enforcement appears to be the biggest
problem.  Several years ago the Washington Post reported that drivers
were filling their vehicles with inflatable dummies in order to meet the
occupancy requirements.  In response, the Virginia State police opened a
toll-free number and encouraged motorists to call (ideally from their
cellular phones) to report violators' license plates.  Registered owners
of the offending vehicles were sent nasty letters - they received
tickets only if they were actually stopped by police. 
  
  My personal opinion?  I quote my own 10-page welfare analysis of
Washington transportation problems: "While traffic restraint policies
are relatively inexpensive to implement and enforce, they assume that
the majority of commuters will continue to drive. In order to make a
larger impact, Washington traffic planners and government officials must
raise the cost of driving and lower the cost of taking the subway. To
date they have done neither effectively."


-Aaron E. Kornblum '93
 Princeton University
 kornblum@phoenix.princeton.edu
From: ashaw@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (andrew.shaw)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: How to answer the Officer when pulled up?
Date: 4 Jan 93 18:05:56 GMT
Organization: AT&T

From mwbg9715@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark Wayne Blunier):
> 
>>Don't EVER give the friendly officer any rope with which to hang you.
>>Keep the conversation strictly business, unless you're good enough at
>>bullshitting your way out of these situations to risk it.
> 
> If you thought you were going 38 say so.  If he didn't think you were
> speeding he would pull you over.  So when you lie and say you aren't
> speeding, or give a speed less than what he believes, he's going to
> nail you.  On the other hand, If he's reasonable, you tell him the
> truth, then he may let you off with a warning (written or verbal).

I usually have fairly good luck by splitting the difference (this 
assumes you are not going outrageously fast).  If you were doing
70 and tell him 55, you are either insulting his intelligence or
indicating your own cluelessness, both of which are good for a ticket.
If you tell him 65, and act sorry, you have a better chance of not
getting the ticket, IMHO.  My favorite story:

Driver closing on a large blue Chevrolet with 2 crew-cut guys
in front seat.  Chevy accelerates so driver sustains 85mph to
effect the pass.  Several miles later, flashing lights appear
in the grill of the (following) Chevrolet.  Conversation with
red-faced, neck-cord-bulging officer:

O:  Why did you pass me at 85mph?
D:  I didn't know you were an unmarked car.
O:  What do you mean?  It's the biggest, bluest, car on the g*d*m road!
D:  Now I know.
O:  If I ever catch you again, you're done.
D:  OK, sorry.

End of incident.
From: leonglaw@hpsgm2.sgp.hp.com (Lawrence LEONG)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 14:08:48 GMT
Subject: Re: Do HOV lanes work?
Organization: HP Singapore
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving

In rec.autos.driving, kornblum@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Aaron Ethan Kornblum) writes:

|   If you want to see HOV-lanes in action, go to Washington, D.C.
|
|   Several major routes to and from the city employ restricted lanes: I-95, I-66,
| Route 1 and the George Washington Pkwy (through Alexandria) are some
| that I remember offhand.  Some are HOV-2, others HOV-3.
|
|   Do they work?  Good question.  Enforcement appears to be the biggest
| problem.  Several years ago the Washington Post reported that drivers
| were filling their vehicles with inflatable dummies in order to meet the
				   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
| occupancy requirements.  In response, the Virginia State police opened a
| toll-free number and encouraged motorists to call (ideally from their
| cellular phones) to report violators' license plates.  Registered owners
| of the offending vehicles were sent nasty letters - they received
| tickets only if they were actually stopped by police. 

That's rich!  Another use for those blow-up dolls, hey?  :-)

Lawrence
From: kb42+@andrew.cmu.edu (Karin Berger)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Shipping car to Europe
Date: 4 Jan 93 04:34:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.4fG4fVS00iV181ImFD
Organization: Office of Planning & Budget, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Does anybody know something about the costs of bringing a car from the
US to Europe? How to do it, who does it and how long does it take?

Any info greatly appreciated.

kb42+@andrew.cmu.edu

Karin
From: dittman@skitzo.dseg.ti.com (Eric Dittman)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: How to answer the Officer when pulled up?
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:33:23 CDT
Organization: Texas Instruments Component Test Facility


In article <1993Jan6.233039.22270@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>, krc@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (kenton.cabiness) writes:
> In article <1if3t5INN247@network.ucsd.edu> judy <judy@nepac.ucsd.edu> writes:
>>Re: How to answer the Officer when pulled up?
>>
>>How about "I was going as fast as the car(s) in front of me?
>>My speedo has been out for over a year, and that's actually how
>>I gauge my speed (as long as the tach works, I have a relative
>>idea anyway) when the LAW is around...
> 
> Or my favorite:  I don't know, my speedometer only goes to 85.
> I got the ticket, but it got a good laugh from the cop! :-)

One I used on a Richardson cop when he stopped me for a 72 in a 40 zone:

"I don't know, but I figure you'll tell me."

I knew I was going to get the ticket (this was in Richardson, after all),
so I figured I had nothing to lose.

Now, my grandfather got stopped by a WV state trooper (I'm from WV) for
something like 80 on the interstate (when the speed limit was 55).  When
the trooper walked up to the car, my grandfather took one look at him and
said, "isn't there a weight limit for state troopers?"  The trooper was
severely overweight, and the comment made the trooper so mad he screwed
up the ticket so bad that it got thrown out.  I was in the back seat
trying very hard not to laugh.

Of course, I've got a funny story myself about getting pulled over in
WV, but I'll save it for some other time.
-- 
Eric Dittman                  Texas Instruments - Component Test Facility
dittman@skitzo.dseg.ti.com    (214) 578-3575
Disclaimer:  Not even my opinions.  I found them by the side of the road.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: Oxygenated gas
Keywords: Worse Mileage??
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems
Distribution: usa 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:30:12 GMT

In <1iucilINNk4@gilligan.East.Sun.COM> mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori) writes:

>Hi...

>Has anyone else noticed that they get worse fuel mileage from
>the "oxygenated" fuel sold near major metropolitan areas?

>I seem to be getting about 40 miles less per tankful in my
>truck (down from 210 to about 170), on about 12 gallons of
>gas. That's a 19% decrease in my fuel mileage, which means
>I have to eat up 19% more fuel to get to and from work now.
>Add to that the added cost (about a dime a gallon), up from
>$1.25 to $1.35/Gal.

>I wonder how much this new fuel decreases emissions, because
>if it's less than 23.8%, the net effect is more pollution, and
>more expense to the consumer, at least in my case.

>Are you folks seeing similar results?

Well, I haven't measured it on a tankful basis, just mpg. On regular
my '89 Probe (std 4 - auto) was giving me about 31.5 - 32 mpg on
my commute of mixed city/beltway. Now I get only 29 mpg on the best
days (that's when the section of the beltway at Cabin John is moving
relatively well). That's approx. 10% loss and a $0.10/gal increase,
and it made no change whatsoever in my emission readings. So in
my case it costs me more and does diddly squat for the environment.

But it got Riley good PR :-)

>-- Mike

Bob.
From: eauu018@orion.oac.uci.edu (Glenn Kaino)
Subject: FORSALE :MOMO stars
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 6 Jan 93 20:25:52 GMT
Followup-To: rec.autos.driving

I have the following for sale:
	    (4) Momo 5-spoke stars, 16x7", chromed, fits Nissan, recent (last 3  
         years) Hondas
	    (4) Pirelli P700ZR16 size 205/50 2 with minor wear and 2 BRAND NEW
	        (they are $200 each new)

Retail price is over $2600....

Im selling mine for a $1200 + delivery

call (714) 854-7392 for information
leave a message for Glenn
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: jfc@athena.mit.edu (John F Carr)
Subject: Re: How to answer the Officer when pulled up?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 23:29:02 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.233039.22270@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>
	krc@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (kenton.cabiness) writes:
>Or my favorite:  I don't know, my speedometer only goes to 85.
>I got the ticket, but it got a good laugh from the cop! :-)

One of my favorite driving sights: a Porche with an 85 mph speedometer
(this was 10 years ago; I guess the government required them at the time).
The speedometer was broken because the driver had gone too fast.

--
    John Carr (jfc@athena.mit.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: us267384@mmm.serc.3m.com (Steven M. Anastasi)
Subject: Re: How to answer the Officer when pulled up?
Organization: 3M - St. Paul, MN  55144-1000 US
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 93 20:06:48 GMT

From article <C0CF21.193@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, by tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan):
> 
> In article <C08x23.Kpr@news.cso.uiuc.edu> gill@eagle.sangamon.edu (Warren Gill) writes:
>>Henri R Helanto (hhelanto@vipunen.hut.fi) wrote:
>>> In <1992Dec30.193437.26773@news2.cis.umn.edu> prabhak@giga.cs.umn.edu (Satya Prabhakar) writes:
>>> >When the cop came by and asked me, "Do you know what speed
>>> >you were going at?" I replied, "35!"
>>>
>>> 	Rule #2: Speak as little as possible. If they bothered to
>>> 		 stop you, they'll fine you anyway. Don't bother 
>>> 	 	 to be nice to them.
>>> 
>>        Wrong!  Just because they stopped you does *NOT* mean you are
>>going to get a ticket.
> 
> That depends on the cop. Chicago cops won't bother to pull you over
> unless they've alredy decided to write you. I suppose in smaller towns
> the cops might have less stuff to do and therefore pull you over out of
> boredom, leaving open the possibility of letting you off with a warning, but
> that's definitely not true everywhere.
>

In my opinion, many of the times a cop pulls someone over is in hopes of
finding something else like a drunk driver.  Speeding gives the cop and
excuse to check on you.  IF you were speeding and are sober and polite,
you may not be what the officer was looking for and his/her time
would be better spent elsewhere.  I think this is especially true
between 10pm and early morning hours.
-- 
........................................................................
Steve Anastasi	        "Give a man a fish, and you can feed him for
smanastasi@mmm.com       a day.  Teach him to fish and you can tax him!"
St. Paul, Minnesota                 - hey, I wrote it!
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Do HOV lanes work?
Date: 8 Jan 1993 15:35:50 GMT
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.239.3.202

rhoades@ll.mit.edu (Captain Chaos) writes:
>Even more similar to the HOV restriction are roads which only allow cars
>and roads that don't allow trailers of any kind.

This is true.  Have you ever tried to get a commercial vehicle, like a
14-foot moving truck, from Watertown to Somerville MA?  *All* of the
convenient (and most of the inconvenient) roads have either weight or
commercial traffic limitations.  It took me nearly an hour to weave my
way in each direction, many times getting stopped by yet another
restricted area I wasn't aware of.  I broke a few laws that day.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com
From: scott@psy.uwa.oz.au (Scott Fisher)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Revenue collection, Aussie-style
Date: 7 Jan 1993 08:16:53 GMT
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: wapsy.psy.uwa.oz.au

leonglaw@hpsgm2.sgp.hp.com (Lawrence LEONG) writes:

>Just got back from Perth, Australia.  Noticed that 'planes are also used for 
>speed traps (familiar lines across road and posted warnings).

>One day out of town, noticed a cop standing behind a VCR-like contraption.
>Device was mounted on a tripod, connected to several black boxes on the
>ground.  Cop was sighting at oncoming traffic (around a bend) thru this
>device.

>Was this photo radar, or laser, or something else?  Anyone know?  I assume 
>this was for revenue collection.  And no, I was not caught.

This would have been a "Photo" based system.  If you are speeding the radar
tells the camera to take a photo of your vehicle (number plate).  The 
police stand next to them to stop people swerving off the road to drive 
over them :-)  A few days later the owner of the car gets a ticket in the mail.

They are very effective revinue devices....I think 3 cameras raised about
$300,000 between them in 4 months.

Regards Scott.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Scott Fisher [scott@psy.uwa.oz.au]  PH: Aus [61] Perth (09) Local (380 3272).                
                                                             _--_|\       N
Department of Psychology                                    /      \    W + E
University of Western Australia.      Perth [32S, 116E]-->  *_.--._/      S
Nedlands, 6009.  PERTH, W.A.                                      v       

Joy is a Jaguar XJ6 with a flat battery, a blown oil seal and an unsympathetic 
wife, 9km outside of a small remote town, 3:15am on a cold wet winters morning.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky rec.autos.driving:7413 or.general:759
From: hollowar@ucs.orst.edu (R. Holloway)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,or.general
Subject: Re: Interesting ticket....
Date: 5 Jan 1993 08:00:19 GMT
Organization: University Computing Services - OSU
Distribution: or
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucs.orst.edu
Summary: Traffic Tickets

In article <1993Jan5.025221.503@news.columbia.edu> eew1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Edward E Walsh) writes:
>My friend just got a ticket saying he was doing 77 mph on a 65mph zone.
>However, the ticker also has a written error: the date of the speeding
>incident was written down as Dec 2, 1993, instead of Jan 2, 1993 -- the
>cop wrote a ticket for an event in the future.  Does he have a case in 
>court or should he just plead guilty and pay the fine?

You'll find that the issue of whether this defect (i.e., wrong date) is fatal
to the ticket is up to the individual magistrate.  In Oregon, a harmless error
is not fatal to a ticket, if 
	1) a defendant does not raise the issue or
	2) the officer can show (by reasonable evidence) that the error
	   was not malicious or manevolent.
One method by which the officer can demonstrate this is to show that the
error occurred on a specific date (e.g., by the number sequence of the the
ticket in relation to other closely numbered tickets).  

This error occurs often as months change &/or at the first of the year.  The
court would squash the ticket IF & ONLY IF YOU show that the officer's error
so prejudiced your case so as to render a fair adminstration of justice a 
farce.

The issue is fairness - not of the issuance or reason the ticket was written
or the law - but fairness of the error.  You'll have to prove either the
ticket was flawed in law or purpose (legislative purpose), that the subject
of the ticket was not the individual or car to which the citation was issued.

Since I'm not an attorney, I cannot offer legal advice - it really ticks 'em
off.  I suggest you consult an attorney in your home state or at your
university.  OSU has a staff attorney (Snell Hall) who has been retained
by the Student Government to advise students in these matters.  These
attorneys cannot litigate your case, but can offer you reasonable advice &
refer you to private attorneys who specialize in your type of case.  As a
matter of course, in Oregon, traffic tickets are considered infractions (i.e.,
a civil matter for which there is only a fine) versus a criminal matter (e.g.,
where you'd risk incarceration).  Infraction cases rarely allow for attornies
to represent defendants.  When you go to court you'll not have nor are you
entitled to an attorney, but neither is the prosecution.  It'll be you, the
judge & the officer hashing the matter out.  BTW, in a misdemeanor case,
where a defendant waives an attorney, judicial rules (& fairness) do not
allow the state (City or County) to be represented by an attorney.  The
arresting officer usually must prosecute the case.  As a practical matter, IF
YOU FEEL the officer isn't up to the task, you might consider walking into
court & telling the judge your side of the issue, but you risk much.  The
old saw goes, "The defendant who represents him/herself has a fool for a 
client."

Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: mike%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu (Mike S.)
Subject: Photo Radar: Out of the Picture
Organization: BITS, St. Louis, MO
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 23:07:53 GMT
Summary: Photo Radar is Out of the Picture in KC, MO
Keywords: photo radar speed speeding legal


This appeared in the St Louis Post Dispatch today:

	The Kansas City Police Department, which once pictured
	your license plate as a moneymaker, has been forced to
	scrap plans for photo radar.

	Circuit judges in Kansas City let the department know
	that they thought plans for photo radar were unconsti-
	tutional.

	As a result, "we dropped it," said Russ Groshans, a
	spokesman for the department.  "It's dead in the water."

	The department wanted to set up a system along busy roads
	that would measure the speed of cars and take pictures of
	the license plates of speeders.  The owner of the car would
	then get a ticket in the mail.

	Police figured it would generate $1 million a year.

	But judges thought the idea had more problems than they
	were willing ot overlook.  So we can write this epitath:

		Police wanted to try photo radar in Kansas City.
		But it didn't develop.

Score another one for our side!

Mike
-- 
mike%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu
From: judy <judy@nepac.ucsd.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: How to answer the Officer when pulled up?
Date: 6 Jan 1993 17:12:05 GMT
Organization: scripps inst. of oceanography
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: alfa.ucsd.edu
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d13
X-XXMessage-ID: <A77052E413021B32@alfa.ucsd.edu>
X-XXDate: Wed, 6 Jan 93 09:12:04 GMT

Re: How to answer the Officer when pulled up?

How about "I was going as fast as the car(s) in front of me?
My speedo has been out for over a year, and that's actually how
I gauge my speed (as long as the tach works, I have a relative
idea anyway) when the LAW is around...
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving