From: garyd@netcom.com (Gary Dietz)
Subject: Together Dating Service: Beware!!! (repost)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 15:02:46 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

A while back, I posted an anonymous warning about the "Together" dating
service.  Here is a post of the details.  I apologize in advance for the
long and somewhat disorganized post.  I've divided it into the following
sections:

1) I'm far from a dweeb -- so why did I choose a dating service?
2) The "Signup"
3) The "Matches"
4) Court -- getting ready
5) My partial refund
6) In closing:  warnings

As you can see, this is NOT anonymous.  I am putting my ego and my ass
on the line nationally here, so take it easy on me.  (Would YOU have the
balls to admit that you went to a dating service AND that they ripped
you off?)  If you MUST flame me, please do it directly to me.  This is
quite embarrassing (especially if someone who knows me sees this post).
. . and I am only trying to save you some grief.  . . So, if you have
anything to say, at least say it positively.

1) I'm far from a dweeb -- so why did I choose a dating service?

I'm 26.  I have a good job.  I have money in the bank.  I am not one of
the "late bloomers" -- I'm not "inexperienced."  I've dated a fair
amount and had a few girlfriends in my life.  I am moderately outgoing
and can socialize well.  I am happy and my life has been getting settled
and going rather well, especially in the past few years.  So why did I
join a dating service?

Well, I live in the Silicon Valley, and quite frankly, I find it very
hard to meet women to go out with "romantically" (not impossible, just
very hard).  I am not the bar type, and, in the infrequent cases when I
"do the bar scene" and meet someone, it is rare that I see her more
than once after our first meeting.  Besides, I am looking for more than
what one *typically* (I said TYPICALLY you flamers) finds in a bar.

I chose to try a dating service because A) I could afford it, B) at
least the women that joined would be looking for a serious dating
partner (do not misread as "Sex" -- read as "going out but not 'just
friends' "), and C) what the hell ?

2) The "Signup"

Went to Together of San Jose in Nov 1991 to Mr. Chris Nolan (who turned
out to be president.  A few months later when I asked him who was in
charge, he wouldn't say -- so I had to go to town hall and get the
business license.)

It was quite literally like a used car saled pitch.  I get a high
pressure salesman hyping me up on what a great guy I am and all of the
"quality women" they have in their service.  What a catch I'd be for
them.

Prices for the service ranged from appx $1200 for six referrals (or
"matches") to about $4000 for three straight years of monthly referrals.
You get a certain number of "hold" months based on your membership fee
-- if you find someone you like a lot and don't want another match for a
while, you go on "hold."

Anyway, after the "salesperson" Chris Nolan put the screws on, I said
that it was too expensive.  So, I told him I could go as high as $800
for nine matches and six months of hold time.  He "went to check with
the boss" (which was a HUGE joke, cause I found out when researching his
business license that he was the owner of the franchise).

What were my requirements?  Any race.  Age:  23 - 35.  Not obese.  Likes
the outdoors.  No smoking.  Divorced okay, but not separated.  No
religious preference.  Worked 9 - 5. Smart.  Kids okay, but must be only
one kid and at least 5 years old.  I kept it as general as possible to
give them the best chance of getting me 9 dates.

I gave him my VISA for $800.  I was in his office for close to 2 hours.
I consider myself very astute -- but this guy WOULD NOT LET ME LEAVE!
(I take responsibility for my actions. . . )

3) The "matches"

Here is a chronological list of all of my referrals.  If you don't want
to read the individual anecdotes, skip down to the "court" section below
for a summary.

"Jane"   1/7/91

I called her, and she never called back, no explanation given by
Together.  (Note, I did not meet her.  . . She just never called me back
when I left messages.  And as Together recommended, my messages were
always very short and I just left my name and number and a good time
to call).

"Sally"   1/28/91

Met "Sally".  This is the ONLY woman that I would consider matched to me
in good faith, although I never heard from her after our first meeting,
and never received any feedback from Together.  (When I asked the
counselor why she never called back after our first date, I was given no
answer.  My ego could handle it -- but Together promises to speak with
both parties to find out how to better make a match the next time.  They
did not follow through.)  (Sally was Asian-American).

"Chris"   2/??/91

Spoke on the phone with "Chris", found out her schedule was completely
incompatible with mine (she worked six days a week, evening shift).  Met
with her anyway, because I felt I should "give it a chance."  She was
also Asian-American.

After this match, I told Together I would prefer no Asian-American
matches in the future, and strongly reiterated my desire to meet someone
whose schedule matched my own.

"Debbie"  4/20/91

I was sent an Asian-American referral(the third in a row), and I refused
the referral, as I had just told them I no longer wanted Asian-American
matches.  (Believe me, I have NOTHING against Asian-American women.  But
I didn't want to feel like I was going to one of those "asian women"
sleazy ads in the back of the weekly rags.  Plus, this would be three
Asian-Amercian women in a row.)

"Elaine"   4/23/91

Married, but separated.  This was DIRECTLY against my expressed desire,
that I told to Chris Nolan in my initial meeting with him.  I also
refused this referral.

At this point, I went in to see Chris Nolan.  He sent me to a
"counselor" (with 2 weeks experience at Together) who "reset" my matches
to 1. "Kathy" would then be my second match.

"Kathy"   5/8/91

Spoke with "Kathy" on the phone, and found out that she had two kids.  I
said kids were okay.  Except she had two, and Together, the
"Personalized Dating Service," DID NOT TELL ME she had kids.

"Kathy" expressed the concern that many of her referrals weren't told of
her kids.  We met, but had little in common other than our frustration
about Together.

My referral to "Loretta" came quickly, and the Together people never
asked me how it went with "Kathy" during my call for background
information on Loretta.  (Remember, the counselor is supposed to check
up on you and adjust matches as needed).

"Loretta"    5/23/91

She never called back, was told by Together that she "went on hold the
day after I was sent the referral."  Together didn't call me the day
after the referral to tell me she went on hold.  I had to wait until I
contacted them, frustrated at no return call.

"Shari"    6/14/91

This referral had a six month old baby, directly against my initial
match desires.  I was told by Togther that they accidentily sent me a
referral to the wrong woman who had a similar name to the referral they
actually mailed to me.

If this was the case, it was strange that it took them two weeks to get
it straightened out.

"Suzy"    6/29/91

This was the match that was supposed to really be "Shari".  She Never
called back, and no explanation from Together.

"Tari"   7/15/91

On July 15, I spoke with Chris Nolan (after MUCH difficulty contacting
him) and told him I wanted my money back.  He said no, but that to keep
me satisfied, he would reset my matches back to number one of nine.

I spoke with "Tari" for a few minutes, and met her for a forty-five
minute dinner.  "Tari" worked for a hospital and, according to her,
worked 15 day cycles with little time off.  Assuming she was telling the
truth, I figured that Together would have remembered my earlier
frustration with work schedules not matching.

"Tari" never called back and Togther told me that she "went on hold the
day after they sent me the referral."  Again, Togther did not contact me
to tell me she went on hold; I did not find out until I got frustrated
at no return call, and told them that she never returned my messages.

I then demanded my money back, and when met with no response, filed in
small claims court.

4) Court -- getting ready

Here are some facts that I gathered by speaking with another man who
was also suing Together.  I found him by checking the court records.  He
was in contact with a woman who also was contemplating suing Together.
Not all of these are really relevant to the contract I signed, but I
thought that a judge in small claims court would weigh the sleaziness
and dishonesty factor in.

* In my 12/6/90 meeting with Chris Nolan, I was told that the
membership breakdown for Together was 50% male and 50% female.
Turns out that Together told a woman member that males outnumbered
females 2:1.  Remeber that "Kathy" above had *eight* males referred to
her in one month.

* Over a period of eight months, there were only four referrals that I
actually got to meet.  All of the rest never returned my calls.
Note: It wasn't that I met them and they didn't like me and didn't call.
They NEVER contacted me after I attempted to contact them.  For all I
know, these women were ringers.

* With two referrals that never called back, Together told me, after I
contacted them, that these referrals went on "hold" the day after their
names were sent to me.  Together made no attempt to inform me of this
hold status until after I called them.

* In my conversation with "Kathy", she expressed the concern that
Together often did not tell her referrals that she had children.  In
addition, "Kathy" complained that she was getting too many referrals in
a very short period of time, and she could not meet with all of them.

* The time between matches that met my criteria was as long as two
months.  While I was sent other potential matches during this time, they
either didn't call back, were separated, or were Asian-American.

* Together materials said how well trained the "counselors are" yet they
had at least five counselors "turn over" while I was involved with them
for eight months.  Their record keeping was such that the "new"
counsleors were not aware of any of my experiences.

* I was put on hold so often that I often hung up.

* Because of all of these problems, I attempted to contact Chris Nolan
numerous times and left many messages.  In late April, I went to his
office in person with my complaints because I couldn't contact him by
phone.  His response to my problem was to introduce me to a counselor
with one week of experience who ended up leaving Together three weeks
later.  She reset my matches to 1.

* After all of these attempts, I continued to get poor referrals.
Early in September, I contacted Together by phone at a time which I was
told by a receptionist that Chris Nolan would be in the office.  When I
called, I was told he was not in.  While leaving a message about my
possible lawsuit, I was put on hold, and then Chris picked up the phone.
He refused a refund, and I informed him that I would sue.

* The "counselor" seemed to be instructed not to forward any calls to
Mr. Nolan.  He was "not in" until I told them I was one of the guys
suing.

* There is a woman from Gilroy CA about 40 minutes (?) south of
many parts of San Jose who was a member.  She was told that there were
male members who also lived in the Gilroy area.  After a dozen or so
referrals, NONE was from Gilroy.

5) My partial refund

Basically, the other guy that sued actually went to court.   The judge
said that he didn't care about the quality or intent of the matches --
but was he "matched" by the terms of the contract?   The other man said
"Yes" for 2 out of 14 matches paid for.  The judge awarded him
12/14 of his fee back.

I didn't go to court.  We settled out (the day before) for one half of
my membership fee plus court costs.

6) In closing:  warnings

* Buyer beware.  Check the Better Business Bureau.  Check the court
records.  Ask for LOCAL references.  Ask for information such as
membership attribues (avg age, gender and age ratios, etc.) and get
them in writing!

* Don't let them manipulate you!  YOU ARE THE BOSS AND CAN LEAVE AT ANY
TIME!!!!!!  If you knew me, you wouldn't believe that I could let them
wrangle me like they did.  But they DID dammit!  Don't let it happen to
you!

* If they won't let you pay by installments, ask yourself why do they
want $$$ up front?

* NEVER BUY ON THE FIRST DAY!!!!  Always give yourself some time.

* To me, the $800 up front did not bankrupt me, but it was no small
change either.  I *thought* if it was a rip-off, I could just chalk it
up to experience.  But I never realized how used and ripped off and
ANGRY I would feel.

* I recommend not doing dating services.  There are other ways.
Not really sure what they are all the time, but look at it this way:
Would you rather be proud, happy, busy, and dateless for FREE *or* would
you rather be upset, feel ripped off, and dateless after spending
hundreds to thousands of dollars to a rip-off organization?

Good luck and god bless.

Gary

-- 
garyd@netcom.com  "If I hugged you any closer, I'd be behind you" - G. Marx