Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 02:44:26 CST
From: <U54778@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Some more curious questions.

In article <schuck.726785998@sfu.ca>, schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan
Schuck) says:
>
>bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
>
>>I just watched the movie JFK over the weekend.  First let me say that after
>>viewing it, I can't imagine what all the uproar is about.  I did not see one
>>think presented there that I hadn't seen in print somewhere else over the
>past
>>few years.
>

And doesn't that tell you something about all those know-it-alls who
complained so noisily about it.  I can see pundits with an opposing view
who could dismiss it or I can see well informed pundits arguing it's
points in a detailed manner but what we saw were a bunch of self
inflated egos stammering a bunch of garbage about how it was corrupting
the minds of our youth?  No details given.  Just a lot of ranting and
raving.
I was amused one early morning to see the last living WC member
Ford, completely botching it in his dundering way, telling us how
the WC had proven that the magic bullet of the single bullet theory
had unquestionably blown JFKs head off and Stone was doing his
country a disservice by telling us so many untrue facts!!!!
It's enough to make you laugh or cry.  One would have thought that if
they were going to let Ford defend the WC version on TV, they would
have taken the time to prep him so he could have kept his facts
straight.

>>Now a couple of questions for someone who has or has had the opportunity to
>>read the Warren Commission Report.
>
>>There is much made of the time LHO would have had to move from the 6th floor
>>to the 2nd floor where he was questioned by a Dallas Poloce Officer after the
>>shooting.  All of these times take the time to fire 3 shots into             ,
>consideration
>>however the greatest amount of time in this act is spent operating the bolt
>>mechanism on the Manlicher-Carcano.  Do these times include the operation of
>>the bolt AFTER firing the last shot??  There are three shell casings on the
>>floor in the "snipers nest".  This means that after firing the last shot, he
>>stayed where he was and took the time to cycle the bolt of the rifle again.
>>How does this additional time affect the time he had to run downstairs??  Or
>>does the WCR actually include this in their estimate??
>
>It really doesn't make much difference. 2 seconds out of 75 or so is
>no big deal. I personally don't think it was possible for him to get
>down at all because I think the policeman was on the stairs before
>Oswald had a chance to get all the way down.
>
This particular element of the official story is fraught with weak
points of which the bolt action is only one.
I'm not going to exhaust all the points here, perhaps in a later
posting but consider:
1) there is testimony from more that one person that the shooter
   lingered in the window, slowly pulling in the rifle and watching
   the effects of the shooting.
2) There were no fingerprints on the rifle (lets ignore the palm print
   which you had to disassemble to find) and no one saw gloves on
   the shooter.  He had to take time to wipe the gun.  Easy you say??
   Not according to FBI expert testimony which described this needed
   action as time consuming.  They were quite surprised that they
   couldn't find one print!!!  Consider how significant this is when
   compared to the fact that the shooter didn't retrieve the shells
   that would lead back to the rifle.  Time to wipe prints but not
   to pick up shells is an anomaly that always smells of frameup.
3) The placement of the rifle between the boxes doesn't appear
   as though it was done in haste, though one could imagine that
   LHO had planned it so tightly that it was a smooth but quick
   operation.
4) Within 70 seconds, LHO was encountered on the 2nd floor, apparently
   calm and unruffled.  From the testimony from many different avenues
   we get different LHO traits that are of concern here.  His brother
   says that he was quick and strong.  Most of his Marine buddies tell
   us that he was lacking coordination and didn't have eye/hand skills.
   These are not mutually exclusive but you can make a case for or
   against LHO being able to pull off something like this which seems
   to call for quickness and agility.
5) there seems a clear case of suppression of evidence of the fact that
   LHO had a coke in his hand when encountered on that 2nd floor.
   If the bottle was already waiting for him, this is insignificant.
   If he had just obtained a bottle from the machine, we have to add
   this action to be accounted for in the 70 seconds.
6) and lastly, there is some testimony that points to the fact that
   Baker lunged into the TSBD quicker and earlier than what the final
   official story allows.
Could LHO have done all this?  I think it can't be ruled out that it
was remotely possible.  How probable?  As the evidence stands, I
find it a hard scenario to have confidence in.  The WC knew they
were on shaky grounds here and went on quickly to the next point
in the case, leaving us all to wonder if a better case could have
been made for a lone LHO or if this point would have sunk the
core contention into the ground.

>>Next question.
>
>>Was there anything in the chamber of the rifle at the time it was found??
>>Was there a spent cartridge (which would mean he fired 4 shots)?? Was there
>>another round chambered??
>
>Yes, there was another round chambered.
>
>>If not, does that mean he set this whole elaborate
>>scheme up himself and only brought 3 bullets??  Seems pretty confident for a
>>man who was supposed to be as bad a shot (based on his Marine record,
>>"maggie's drawers").
>
>Yes he was amazingly confident. Only four bullets.
>
Yes, confidence pushed to a unbelievable level.
And where, pray tell, did he get those four bullets in the first place?
They couldn't find any evidence anywhere that M-C ammo was bought
where ever LHO resided.  Don't think they didn't try.  Literally,
hundreds of places were looked into.  Try buying four bullets.
They sell boxes of bullets, not individual bullets.  No bullets other
than those four were found anywhere.  Again, don't think they didn't
try.  They ransacked every possible hiding place for this evidence.

This fact or lack of fact is significant beyond the fact of what was
found.  FBI experts and LHO's brother, both stated that they felt that
LHO could have done the shooting only if he had done some extensive
practicing with the M-C.  This goes beyond the Lattimer contention
of LHO dry practicing with the bolt.  FBI experts stated that the
trigger pull on this weapon was difficult, a two phase pressure was
needed to operate it.  If one did not have a lot of "wet" practice
with this weapon, it would have totally surprised the shooter.
OK. where are the bullets supporting practice with the rifle?
And even more importantly, where in the hell did he practice?
Are we going to believe that he nonchalantly shot at leaves in the
park with a rifle that everyone describes as terribly loud?  This is
what Mrs. De Morenschildt says that Marina says!  Even the WC could
not stomach such a preposterous story.  The FBI was sent out to look
for more reasonable places where he could have practiced.  UH, they
didn't find any.  They found some that were just possible but each
had major problems to them.  The places and stories which didn't have
major problems always involved LHO being with someone else.  Well,
this had a mother of a problem, LHO was not alone, so all these
stories were quickly discounted as conflicting with other evidence.
The problems with the lone practice sights were then ignored and viola!
the WC version is born.

(Instead of leaving you wondering what these problems were, I'll mention a few.
* certain sites required that shots were fired in areas crowded with
  people who couldn't have ignored them.  The FBI canvassed these areas
  extensively and failed to find one person who remembered any shots.
  Since these people were unquestionably present most of the time,
  they would have to be brain dead to have missed the firing.
* certain sites had a timing problem, where LHO could have made it to
  them with only seconds of daylight left.  When was the last time you
  sighted in a rifle in the dark?
* certain sites were too far away for LHO to get to without being
  driven there (remember LHO couldn't drive).
* Certain sites required LHO to take several buses, carrying the rifle
  concealed with his handheld jacket.  They couldn't find anyone who
  remembered seeing him.  They tried hard.  Ever try to carry a rifle
  concealed this way, night after night, without someone looking at you
  suspiciously?  Just picture this.  Sitting on bus seats holding the
  rifle within the jacket.  Or standing at a bus stop.  Or getting on
  and off the bus.  Or just walking down the street with it.  Oh, I don't
  doubt that one could get away with it once or twice, if lucky. What's
  required here is several nights and several bus changes.  And no one
  noticed, not even a bus driver?
  Well, since Marina had some testimony that pointed in
  this direction, the WC generally used it in their version.)

ALAN ROGERS  **** U54778@UICVM.UIC.EDU * I speak only for myself as a *
VMKRAFT INC.  708-675-8615             * citizen of the UNIVERSE, not *
                                       * as an employee of Vmkraft nor*
                                       * as a user of U of I Services.*
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk