HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.advanc-l
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 12:36:51 MST
              <ADVANC-L@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Dan Lester <ALILESTE@IDBSU.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Geac (non-)responses
              11 Nov 1992 09:08:31 PST from <griffinr@CCMAIL.ORST.EDU>

On Wed, 11 Nov 1992 09:08:31 PST Richard Griffin said:
>           No-one expects any software as extensive as a library automation
>           system to be absolutely perfect.  It is bound to have bugs in it,
>           whichever company produces it.  Geac should not feel shy about
>           admitting the existence of bugs in a newsletter - it does not
>           necessarily reflect badly on them, and Geac would gain the goodwill
>           of its customers.

This is absolutely true.  And I have been told that Geac is developing
an automated problem tracking system, perhaps something like the one that
WordPerfect and other major software vendors have.  If you call WP and
tell them that you have a 386 with this version of DOS and that type of
printer and which exact version/release (by date) of WP5.1 you have, they
can check their bugfile and tell you that "yes, that combo does produce
problem x" so you need a particular new release that has patched that
bug and would you like me to mail it to you on 5.25 or 3.5 floppy?"

And at least the library software firms that work in the micro-based
marketplace do the same thing.  They HAVE TO, at least partly because it
is easier for customers to switch brands on microsoftware, whether
library software or word processing.  Follett is a good example.  They,
too, are not perfect.  But they DO have procedures for keeping track
of bugs, versions, problems, etc.  And they fix them ASAP.

I hope that all of our friends at Geac understand that we like them and
are NOT trying to hurt or flame them....but to help....to let them know
what the problems are...and that we have a common interest in getting
them fixed quickly.  We certainly do NOT want Geac to fail....if they fail,
I fail.  I am NOT interested in changing vendors.

dan

*****************************************************************************
* Dan Lester                          Bitnet:   alileste@idbsu              *
* Associate University Librarian      Internet: alileste@idbsu.idbsu.edu    *
* Boise State University                                                    *
* Boise, Idaho  83725                 BSU and I have a deal: I don't speak  *
* 208-385-1234                        for them and they don't speak for me. *
*****************************************************************************
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 09:52:01 -0500
              <ADVANC-L@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         "T. LaBorie" <tlaborie@SJU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Geac (non-)responses
              Nov 11, 92 09:08:31 am

On the issue of Geac not responding to the Listserv...

I don't know if Advance sites are aware of this but GLIS sites have an
electronic mail system which allows us to communicate with Geac in
Canada to report problems, etc. This year Geac added the capability that
Listserve messages -- from both GLIS and Advance listservs -- are routed
to the GLIS e-mail system and received by all GLIS sites. This makes the
listserv messages available to everyone, whether they are on the
Internet, Bitnet, or not.

This is something you will want Geac to develop for the Advance system
and the users group as well.

Tim LaBorie
St. Joseph's University
tlaborie@sju.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.advanc-l
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:21:23 CST
              <ADVANC-L@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Mick Gahan <gahan@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject:      Enhancement note from Stanislaus

I have to agree with P. Peters at CSU-Stanislaus, about GEAC
"fixes" vs "enhancement requests."  Users' Group does not seem
to be communicating our needs well enough to GEAC, (or, perhaps,
GEAC isn't listening loudly enough?) about our previous rounds
of fixes and enhancements.

Many of GEAC's written replies to "requests to fix" suggest they
didn't understand the original complaint/request from the user.
Future requests through the Users' Group must include the originator's
name and phone number, and GEAC !!!! MUST !!!! contact the originator
to discuss the problem at length before fixing some unrelated thing which
ain't broke yet.  (There must be something on the system that works
right -- right?)

P. Peters suggests
> it would be constructive if Geac would routinely notify
> all customers of unresolved system problems or bugs.
> The enhancement process itself, then, would be unencumbered
> by things other than true enhancements.

HEY GEAC!  The users - your customers - want to communicate with
you!  This means a TWO-way street.

I'd really like to have GEAC assume responsibility for participating
in these ADVANC-L conversations, and provide customer feedback as
appropriate.

Paul Marsh, Metropolitan Community College, Omaha
   402  449-8424
<gahan@cwis.unomaha.edu>
From: turitz@SFSUVAX1.SFSU.EDU ((Mitch Turitz))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.advanc-l
Subject: Dan's comments to Geac (RIGHT ON!)
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:25:05 GMT
              <ADVANC-L@IDBSU.BITNET>
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Among dan's comments were:>
>
> >HEY GEAC!  The users - your customers - want to communicate with
> >you!  This means a TWO-way street.
> >I'd really like to have GEAC assume responsibility for participating
> >in these ADVANC-L conversations, and provide customer feedback as
> >appropriate.
>
>    YES!!!   Communicating with us here is NOT a disservice to those
> not on the nets.  They talk with the rest of us.  This is NOT a secret
> society.  I hope that the Users Group will continue to encourage others
> to get net access.  There are MANY easy ways for people to get this
> access, including through Compuserve and other similar services.  None
> of them are free, but for a library that can afford an online system,
> they are certainly affordable, at a few hundred dollars a year.
>    Also, if there were interest, I would be willing to print out the
> logs every month and mail them to the users who are NOT net connected.
> Reading logs isn't quite the same as "being there" as a part of the
> communication, but it's better than nothing, and may lead to more
> phone calls, etc.
>
> dan (Sec/Treas of Advance Users Group, and Listowner of Advanc-l, etc.)
>
> *****************************************************************************
> * Dan Lester                          Bitnet:   alileste@idbsu              *
> * Associate University Librarian      Internet: alileste@idbsu.idbsu.edu    *
> * Boise State University                                                    *
> * Boise, Idaho  83725                 BSU and I have a deal: I don't speak  *
> * 208-385-1234                        for them and they don't speak for me. *
> *****************************************************************************
>

Dan - I think that your idea boaut printing out the logs every month
could replace the "newsletter" which hasn't appeared in what, two years?
At least people would be getting SOME information and maybe Geac would
be willing to respond in writing if they are not willing to respond to
the list?
--
**********************************************
* Mitch Turitz, Serials Librarian            *
* San Francisco State University Library     *
* 1630 Holloway Ave., S.F., CA  94132        *
* Voice: (415) 338-7883  FAX: (415) 338-6199 *
* Internet: turitz@sfsu.edu                  *
**********************************************

As usual, should you or any of your opinions
be caught or killed, the library will
disavow any knowledge of your actions.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.advanc-l
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 14:55:48 MST
              <ADVANC-L@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Dan Lester <ALILESTE@IDBSU.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Volume numbers
              4 Nov 1992 12:04:10 EST from <cchen@DHVX20.CSUDH.EDU>

On Wed, 4 Nov 1992 12:04:10 EST <cchen@DHVX20.CSUDH.EDU> said:
>As I understand, the volume number is filed into database digit by digit. The
>numerical sequence only works correctly up to 10.  Numbers larger than 10 are
>listed in random order.  We are also very surprised to know that Geac did not
>write the software to handle this simple problem.

I don't believe this is correct.  Some sites have software that sorts
volume numbers correctly.  At one point our volume numbers were sorted
apparently randomly, but we finally figured out that they were in
BARCODE ORDER!   For some sets that was the same as volume order, but for
most it wasn't.

I believe this is typical of variations in sorting of call numbers,
especially LC double Cutters, and of volume numbers.  Some time ago I
knew which sites sorted both correctly, both incorrectly, one right and
one wrong, and one wrong and one right.  Every possible combination
existed.   8-)

Hopefully these things will get standardized and fixed soon.

I hope.

dan

*****************************************************************************
* Dan Lester                          Bitnet:   alileste@idbsu              *
* Associate University Librarian      Internet: alileste@idbsu.idbsu.edu    *
* Boise State University                                                    *
* Boise, Idaho  83725                 BSU and I have a deal: I don't speak  *
* 208-385-1234                        for them and they don't speak for me. *
*****************************************************************************
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From: turitz@SFSUVAX1.SFSU.EDU ((Mitch Turitz))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.advanc-l
Subject: Re: Cataloging module
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:17:02 GMT
              <ADVANC-L@IDBSU.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Kai Stoeckenius said:

>
> After monitoring the GEAC ADVANCE user's list for about three months, I have
> found very little discussion of the ADVANCE cataloging module.  We are
> exploring implementation of cataloging on ADVANCE at Boise State and would
> be interested in the experiences of other libraries who have, or are con-
> sidering using the ADVANCE cataloging module for inputting records.
> in the experiences of other libraries who have
>
> Kai Stoeckenius
> Asst. Technical Services Librarian
> Boise State University Library
> alistoec@idbsu.bitnet
> alistoec@idbsu.idbsu.edu
>
Kai - the reason you don't see much discussion of the ADVANCE cataloging
module is there isn't much to discuss.  The MAJOR bugs have been fixed
and downloading from OCLC seems to work well for most sites (in my
observations).  The authority control is really nice and allows you to
change all bib records by changing one heading.  You can also downlowd
authority records directly from OCLC.  The biggest complaint that I have
heard about cataloging is:  Each subfield appears on its own row,
causing a "normal" OCLC record of one or two screens to be spread out
over 6 or 7 Geac screens (and more if the 040 has a lot of $d
modifications).  However, both Fresno and Matt Goldner have indicated
that they have managed to modify their MARC displays so that they appear
more OCLC-like - with all the subfields appearing in one continuous
line.  This is a HIGHLY desirable feature (at least for us).

So far, when we do original cataloging, we create the records in OCLC
and then download them into Geac.

--
**********************************************
* Mitch Turitz, Serials Librarian            *
* San Francisco State University Library     *
* 1630 Holloway Ave., S.F., CA  94132        *
* Voice: (415) 338-7883  FAX: (415) 338-6199 *
* Internet: turitz@sfsu.edu                  *
**********************************************

As usual, should you or any of your opinions
be caught or killed, the library will
disavow any knowledge of your actions.
From: griffinr@CCMAIL.ORST.EDU (Richard Griffin)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.advanc-l
Subject: Geac (non-)responses
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:08:31 GMT
              <ADVANC-L@IDBSU.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU


           I, too, have heard Geac's reasoning about why they don't reply to
           anything on this bulletin. (They say that not everyone has access to,
           therefore it isn't fair).  I disagree with this reasoning since, in
           my opinion, almost any communication is better than none at all.  The
           problem that not everyone can access this list can easily be overcome
           by Geac sending out a newsletter IN ADDITION TO answering questions
           on this BB.  The newsletter could reproduce the questions, user
           responses and Geac's responses.

           We would all benefit from increased communications of this type.
           Included in such a newsletter should be some of the (edited) logs
           from the Dallas customer support center.  We could all learn from
           many of the problems that other sites run into, so that we don't all
           have to re-invent the wheel every time something goes wrong.  Someone
           probably found that same problem long before you did!

           No-one expects any software as extensive as a library automation
           system to be absolutely perfect.  It is bound to have bugs in it,
           whichever company produces it.  Geac should not feel shy about
           admitting the existence of bugs in a newsletter - it does not
           necessarily reflect badly on them, and Geac would gain the goodwill
           of its customers.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.advanc-l
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:53:41 MST
              <ADVANC-L@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Kai Stoeckenius <ALISTOEC@IDBSU.BITNET>
Subject:      Cataloging module

After monitoring the GEAC ADVANCE user's list for about three months, I have
found very little discussion of the ADVANCE cataloging module.  We are
exploring implementation of cataloging on ADVANCE at Boise State and would
be interested in the experiences of other libraries who have, or are con-
sidering using the ADVANCE cataloging module for inputting records.
in the experiences of other libraries who have

Kai Stoeckenius
Asst. Technical Services Librarian
Boise State University Library
alistoec@idbsu.bitnet
alistoec@idbsu.idbsu.edu
From: turitz@SFSUVAX1.SFSU.EDU (Mitch Turitz)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.advanc-l
Subject: Re: Advice and suggestions from listowner
Date: 12 Nov 92 17:12:49 GMT
              <ADVANC-L@IDBSU.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
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Well Said Dan!

I just have one comment about Richard Blood's comments.  I do not think
it was inappropriate for him to quote from the RFP.  We are a
state-supported public institution and any contracts with us are a
matter of public record (that was one of the original understandings to
all vendors before they were allowed to bid on our RFP).  For the same
reason, the cost of the system is also a public record.


--
**********************************************
* Mitch Turitz, Serials Librarian            *
* San Francisco State University Library     *
* 1630 Holloway Ave., S.F., CA  94132        *
* Voice: (415) 338-7883  FAX: (415) 338-6199 *
* Internet: turitz@sfsu.edu                  *
**********************************************

As usual, should you or any of your opinions
be caught or killed, the library will
disavow any knowledge of your actions.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.advanc-l
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:56:14 PST
              <ADVANC-L@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         "(Mitch Turitz)" <turitz@SFSUVAX1.SFSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Single line MARC display
              92 6:53 pm

>
> To clarify, the pulling of all subfields applies only to OPAC display, not
> to the MARC record itself in cataloging.
>
> Matt Goldner
> mgoldne%uscn.bitnet@uga.cc.uga.edu
>
Matt - that is NOT what Hye Oak (from Fresno) told me.  We were talking
about the MARC record in cataloging!

--
**********************************************
* Mitch Turitz, Serials Librarian            *
* San Francisco State University Library     *
* 1630 Holloway Ave., S.F., CA  94132        *
* Voice: (415) 338-7883  FAX: (415) 338-6199 *
* Internet: turitz@sfsu.edu                  *
**********************************************

As usual, should you or any of your opinions
be caught or killed, the library will
disavow any knowledge of your actions.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.advanc-l
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 12:04:10 EST
              <ADVANC-L@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         cchen@DHVX20.CSUDH.EDU
Subject:      RE: Volume numbers

As I understand, the volume number is filed into database digit by digit. The
numerical sequence only works correctly up to 10.  Numbers larger than 10 are
listed in random order.  We are also very surprised to know that Geac did not
write the software to handle this simple problem.

Cecilia Chen, Dir.
Cataloging Services
CSU Dominguez Hills  Internet:cchen@DHVX20.CSUDH.EDU
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.advanc-l
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 10:24:22 CST
              <ADVANC-L@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Mick Gahan <gahan@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject:      GEAC participation and communication

So,  GEAC doesn't want to communicate on this list because the
competition might be listening.  What about the potential customers
that are listening?  If I was a potential customer, I'd be far more
inclined to consider a new system from a company that communicates
with its present customers openly, and discusses problems and how
the problems are being fixed.  Instead, potential customers see a
plethora of comments from present customers complaining about how
GEAC is NOT communicating, neither by e-mail nor by any other means.

One of the first things I learned in my graduate course at the
Makebigbucks Salesmanship College, was that Customer Service means
Servicing your Customers, including solving problems before the
customers start talking among themselves.

Hey, GEAC -- we are talking among ourselves!

Hey, GEAC (2) -- your potential customers are listening!

Paul Marsh, Metropolitan Community College, Omaha
    cwis.unomaha.edu           402  449-8424
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.advanc-l
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 08:41:12 PST
              <ADVANC-L@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         "(Mitch Turitz)" <turitz@SFSUVAX1.SFSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Questions to Metro CC re:overlay
              92 9:29 am

>
> Two questions for information, first why are you producing shelf list
> cards?  But second, do your catalogers realize they can attach the
> pieces info by using the Replace command?
>
>
> Matt Goldner
> mgoldne%uscn.bitnet@uga.cc.uga.edu
>

Matt - although the questions were not directed to us, I will respond
since we are dong the same thing.

1.)  We are still ordering s/l cards because we still do not have enough
confidence in the system to rely only on that for our inventory and
cross-checking.  There are sufficient bugs in the system that we still
rely heavily on our shelf list to resolve many conflicts/problems.

2.) Attaching the pices info by using the Replace command does work, but
that is not the issue.  The issue is that "we" would like to donwload
the revised/updated record from OCLC and have it AUTOMATICALLY replace
the previous version without having to do any additional steps or
editing.  Every addidtional keystroke is more work which our
overburdened staff does not need.
--
**********************************************
* Mitch Turitz, Serials Librarian            *
* San Francisco State University Library     *
* 1630 Holloway Ave., S.F., CA  94132        *
* Voice: (415) 338-7883  FAX: (415) 338-6199 *
* Internet: turitz@sfsu.edu                  *
**********************************************

As usual, should you or any of your opinions
be caught or killed, the library will
disavow any knowledge of your actions.
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X-Envelope-to: advanc-l@idbsu.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"advanc-l@idbsu"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.advanc-l
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 13:46:00 EDT
              <ADVANC-L@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         KEEN@BRANDEIS.BITNET
Subject:      unsubscribe

please unsubscribe
From: hye_ok_park@CSUFRESNO.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.advanc-l
Subject: Re: Single line MARC display
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:54:09 GMT
              <ADVANC-L@IDBSU.BITNET>
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X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL5]
              "MGOLDNE%USCN.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU" at Nov 12, 92 10:18 am

>
> Hye Oak, could you please clarify this.  I have never seen anyway to strin
> subfields in a MARC display, only in an OPAC display.
>
> Matt Goldner
> mgoldne%uscn.bitnet@uga.cc.uga.edu
>

Earlier this morning, I did send my reply to the list and got
acknowledged for distribution.  I will wait a short while and resend
my reply if I don't get it thru the list service.  But, in short,
Mitch misunderstood me for saying that I changed the MARC display when
I meant the OPAC displays in both public and staff modes.

Hye Ok Park
hye_ok_park@csufresno.edu
From: hye_ok_park@CSUFRESNO.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.advanc-l
Subject: Re: Single line MARC display
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:05:54 GMT
              <ADVANC-L@IDBSU.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL5]
              11, 92 10:56 pm

As Matt says, all I have found out how to display all the subfields
within a given tagged-field on one continuous line applies to OPAC
displays and not the MARC record displays.  Mitch, I am sorry if I
led you to misunderstand but I was talking about the OPAC displays in
all four different display setups:
     OPAC.DISPLAY-SIMPLE
     OPAC.DISPLAY-DETAILED
     OPAC.DISPLAY-CAT-SIMPLE
     OPAC.DISPLAY-CAT-DETAILED

The last two parameters determine the OPAC displays as seen in
Cataloguing module by the Cat. staff.  We felt that even this was
helpful.

-- Hye Ok Park, hye_ok_park@csufresno.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: turitz@SFSUVAX1.SFSU.EDU ((Mitch Turitz))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.advanc-l
Subject: Re: Enhancement note from Stanislaus (RIGHT ON! FLAME ON!)
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:07:39 GMT
              <ADVANC-L@IDBSU.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Paul Marsh said:>
>
> P. Peters suggests
> > it would be constructive if Geac would routinely notify
> > all customers of unresolved system problems or bugs.
> > The enhancement process itself, then, would be unencumbered
> > by things other than true enhancements.
>
> HEY GEAC!  The users - your customers - want to communicate with
> you!  This means a TWO-way street.
>
> I'd really like to have GEAC assume responsibility for participating
> in these ADVANC-L conversations, and provide customer feedback as
> appropriate.
>
> Paul Marsh, Metropolitan Community College, Omaha
>    402  449-8424
> <gahan@cwis.unomaha.edu>
>

RIGHT ON Paul, and Priscilla!  Now for my FLAME ON!


I would also like to remind Geac that at the last ALA, at the Users
Group meeting the Users didn't have a chance to say anything because
Geac was too busy telling us how much they've improved their
communication with us!  You guys were talking AT us!  Not to us, or with
us, or listening!

Flame off!
--
**********************************************
* Mitch Turitz, Serials Librarian            *
* San Francisco State University Library     *
* 1630 Holloway Ave., S.F., CA  94132        *
* Voice: (415) 338-7883  FAX: (415) 338-6199 *
* Internet: turitz@sfsu.edu                  *
**********************************************

As usual, should you or any of your opinions
be caught or killed, the library will
disavow any knowledge of your actions.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU