From: thantos@runic.via.mind.org (Paul Williams [SysOp])
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: WereVamp->Ars?
Date: 2 Oct 92 18:50:49 GMT
Organization: Runic Writings / Lawrenceville, GA



peterw@cs.man.ac.uk (Peter Wake) writes:

   [Holding  out asbestos shield to avoid getting charbroiled by the heat]
        :)

> Well I had a shot at converting Vampire characters to Ars Magica, which
> is halfway there.  Given the theory you can also go the other way.
> Vampire is somewhat more coarse grained than Ars Miga however.
> You can convert the Vampire effects and play them in Ars, but I can't
> really see the point of mixing the two together somehow.  You can use
> the general routine of Ars combat/duelling, but then Storyteller doesn't
> really have a proper combat system, instead it has a set of suggestions.
> Just replace suggestions with those from Ars...

   Actually, I was looking for help in converting  weapons/skills  to  AM.
        From  the  little  I've seen of Vampire, I'll have to agree with a
        goodly portion of your following comments.  :)

> 2)  Rules are so quirky as to encourage rule-lawyer type behaviour and
>     rule-play.

   This might be just a little open to interpretation, but I  lean  toward
        your observation.

> 4)  Combat system does not work.
> 5)  Damage system does not work.

   Might you  go into a little more detail here?  From reading the list, I
        get the feeling that the  lethality  level  is  a  bit  skewed  (a
        toothpick  in  the  armpit  kills  a normal, but a tac nuke tans a
        Were.  I'm really famillir with the AM ]I[ combat  system,  so  if
        you  can  give  an opinion, how do you think the combat conversion
        would go?

> 6)  Difficulty above 9 for any task causes complete system break-down.
>     i.e. The Antideluvian with 19 dice against starting character with
>     Stamina 5, Fortitude 3.  However many dice he has chance of scoring
>     a success (to wound) is the same as chance of losing one from a
>     botch.  Furthermore Sta 10, Fort 10 is no better than above at
>     resisting normal damage - still roll a 10.
>     (I have a fix for this, I'm sure you can think of one too.
>      Or a neat continuum of three.  Left as an exercise :-)

   I figure the conversion to the  AM  style  roll-resolution  should  fix
        this (Stat+Skill+d10,  1s double next roll, 0s botch.  I'd love to
        see a Vampire botch several times in one night.)

> 7)  Coarse grain problems.  You can't grade things smoothly: experience
>     for example.  One XP is an awful lot to hand out or withhold, which
>     makes it hard when you want to reward players differently but not TOO
>     differently.  The same applies to stats, there's a very binary feel to
>     it all.  Value one is feeble, five is gross and there are only three
>     things in between: very poor.  Other systems have this problem,
>     but only Toon and Ghostbusters as bad.  It didn't matter with them
>     because no one is really bothered about the result: it's funny or it's
>     not.  In Vampire there's a shred or 'realism' and it doesn't mesh well
>     with the system.

   How do you feel about AM's  Stat  range?    Is  it  big  enough  to  be
        useful?   I like it, makes eye-balling character's relationship to
        normals easy, as 0 is average.

> 9)  The vampiric powers are described like something from AD&D - the
>     referee has to do so much work that he'd be better off re-writing
>     the whole system from scratch.

   This is the section I'm really worried  about  converting.    Should  I
        change  the powers to AM equivalents (Dominate = ReMe30?) and give
        as an in(un)born ability?  That's the way I'm leaning.

> Plus vampires are solitary hunters with good reasons to kill each other,
> how odd that they form into little groups of friends.  It's harder to
> provide justification for a vampire party to stay together than for
> virtually any other background.

   This is (perhaps) the only point in your  post  I  might  can  disagree
        with.   The  Masquerade  makes  sense, as long as you don't assume
        anything about  vampires.    Now,  the  population  density   that
        Vampire postulates seems a bit out of range.

---
(Eagerly awaiting Mage)


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thantos@runic.via.mind.org (Paul Williams [SysOp])