From: dbidwa@sei.cmu.edu (Daniel Bidwa)
Subject: Re: Devil CD's
Keywords: hot rails to hell
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:35:10 EST

Me: 
>Over a five record stretch, Metallica has
>covered the war/death/isolation/lonliness territory pretty
>much to the exclusion of anything else -- maybe not the
>"get wasted and party" cliche, but no less a cliche.

Jim Wylde (nasiatka@anhep3.anl.gov.bitnet):
|>I'll agree with you on most of that, as far as some of the
|>content goes, but on thier last album they did break some
|>new musical ground by getting the producer from Moley Crue
|>in to help hone thier sound.

Some (like me) would argue that this was not such a good thing.
Sure, it sounds better than "...And Justice For All", but you still can't hear
the bass (for the most part), and the drums still sounds terrible. Bob Rock
(the producer in question, for those who don't follow this hoohah) gave their
sound the gloss that probably put them onto pop radio, but, like I said, this
is arguably not such a good thing. (Just for comparison's sake, I
think that the production on the last few Anthrax records has been right on
target; that's the way I think good production should sound. I don't think
that a mainstream crowd is necessarily desirable, especially when it involves
tailoring the band's sound just to gain popularity (which, in all the
interviews I've read, sounds like the real reason they switched producers).
It's also hard to say that Metallica's recent album could've _not_ been a huge
success no matter who produced it, considering how popular "Justice" was in
spite of its epic-length songs and brittle production. I suspect that any
Metallica record with sub-five-minute songs was fated to be a big deal.

|>If you look at some of the stuff like 'Johhny Get Your Gun'
|>(based off a VERY good film that has some really nifty
|>social statements in it) or 'Justice for All'  You can see
|>that they are at least well read and educated, and that
|>they reflect it in their music.

Nifty in comparison to what? Paula Abdul? Okay, I can buy that, but just
because their social statements are unique to pop radio doesn't make them any
more mature than most of the poop already there. I'm glad to see that stuff
like "One" is getting exposure, as I think that encouraging nonconformity is
generally a good thing (if somewhat contradictory), but I don't see it as
demonstrative of any sort of mature political or social agenda. "One" (and the
movie "Johnny Get Your Gun") says what, that war is stupid? Okay, Culture Club
said the same thing, only more blatantly -- does that mean that they were well
read and educated, and better at expressing ideas than Metallica? (Like this
could be considered quantitatively in the first place...) Not to say that
Metallica is stupid (young, maybe), but geez, this isn't Noam Chomsky we're
talking about here.

>And the idea that either band has serious political views is ludicrous.

|>Not just political views, but opinions on social issues as well.  To tell me
|>that Dave Mustaine, Mr. ex-coke head, anti-drugs, Ross Perot supporter
|>(initially), who covered the Dem. National Convention for MTV has no
|>political views is ludicrous. 

Okay, point taken. I guess I should've said "mature, defensible political
views", or some such. But again, how well do those views come through in the
music, without needing to sandbagged by stuff like the Convention coverage?
You mention "Peace Sells" and "Hangar 501"; they're both decent tunes, but
they aren't saying much besides "the system sucks" and "the government is a
big conspiracy", both of which are hardly new views. (New to popular metal,
true, but punk's been saying this stuff for ages; I suppose you could argue
that this is just another part of the hardcore crossover to metal.) It's still
better than that damn "Cherry Pie" songs, but it's hardly the voice of
political maturity.

In all honesty, I can't think of very many popular bands or performers that
_have_ shown some sort of deeper political thought (Gang of Four? um, Woody
Guthrie?), but that doesn't mean that it can't be done (or should be ignored).

|>If you really want to listen to some cool death-metal, try Testament.  You'll
|>find that not only is the lead singer *HOT*, but he sings of such nasty stuff
|>as Rain Forest destruction, and the like....

Eh, they're okay (although I have to admit that I haven't paid much attention
to them for the last few years -- I've heard that they've dropped most of
their Metallica imitations; I do remember an Aerosmith(?) cover from a
few albums back, enough to be able to hum it :-). I much prefer the looks of
the lead singer for Deicide (the upside-down-cross branded on his forehead
isn't even too bad), who also has a _deep_ speaking voice and a phenomenal
stage presence (in a sort of Mansonesque fashion).  Boy, am I glad that beards
have once again become acceptable metal style! Yum!

|>[Helot Revolt] is a pretty decent band, more of a stage show like
|>early Kiss though, but with a MAJOR political message...Their album
|>'Bigotry is Not Rebellion' is out

Well, while most of the metally inclined people at the station I work at lean
fairly heavily towards the deathlier side of metal, we'd certainly like to
have a copy of the album if you can spare it. The address is WRCT; 5020 Forbes
Avenue; Pittsburgh, PA, 15213; our Music Director is Steve Snyder.

Wow, rap, punk, and now metal -- soc.motss is certainly hitting the fringes of
queer-accepted music lately. Klezmer, anyone?

Dan
Newsgroups: soc.motss