HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kennedy@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (Ralph Kennedy)
Subject: Re: Colorado Letter
Organization: soc.motss
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:53:36 GMT

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> However, the passage this past Tuesday of Measure 2 means
> that I could not in good conscience consider visiting
> Colorado again until such time as the citizens and
> government of the state firmly and lastingly reject

     Oh for heavens sake, Jess, for once be assertive:
change your "could not" to "cannot," please!   :-)

     Besides, "cannot" matches "reject" better anyway.
"Could not" really calls for "rejected," and makes
for much too subjunctive a tone for what I assume
are strong feelings on your part.

--Starcap'n Ra       {ames,gatech,husc6,rutgers}!ncar!noao!asuvax!kennedy
                        {allegra,decvax,ihnp4,oddjob}--^
                                          ^---------------The Wrong Choice
                             internet: kennedy@asuvax.asu.edu
From: stevenso@Apple.COM (David Stevenson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Date: 13 Nov 92 21:12:13 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:
>
>madonna's book is, well, kinda pedestrian.  the only curious bits
>about it are its packaging and cover.
>
I thought the idea of using shrink-wrap to ensure that the binding holds
until the book was actually opened was rather ingenuous.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rosinski@isis.cgd.ucar.edu (Jim Rosinski)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 21:19:49 GMT

 gandalf@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu (Thomas M Farrell) writes:

>In article <1992Nov12.191913.8438@ncar.ucar.edu> gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:
>
> It does not deny homosexuals equal rights. It denies the the ability of the
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> state to create quotas for gays, or give gays minority status, and it denies
>                                                                    ^^^^^^^^^
> gays the use of the legal system to correct alleged cases of discrimination.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Your self contradictions are showing, Dahlink.
>
>			-Tom

Not necessarily.  From the text you have highlighted, it is clear that your
definition of "rights" involves the "legal system".  In other words, a right
can come or go depending on what is legal or illegal.  To some people (me for
one) a right is that which is yours by your nature as a human being.  It is
not subject to negotiation, and can only be *recognized*, not *defined* by
what the law says.  For the moment I am not arguing which is the better
definition, only pointing out that the quoted text above is not necessarily
"self-contradictory".

Judging from all the vile words that have spewed forth in this thread recently,
I expect to be resoundingly flamed for what I have just said.  Be assured
all flames --> /dev/null.


Jim Rosinski
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Subject: Re: Pat Robertson, Buchanan, Helms, VOTE!!!
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 21:36:41 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.042607.29025@news.Hawaii.Edu> johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan) writes:
>In article <1992Nov06.140028.37912@watson.ibm.com>
>jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin) writes:
>
>>does anyone else hate this
>["P" Robertson]
>>dude as much as i do?
>
>Gee, I don't know, I think he's kind of cute.

Me too.  I'd really like to fuck his tight ass.  Of course, I'd have
to give him a chainsaw enema first.

Ry Schwark
ry@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: czmt@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (Season Marie Taylor)
Subject: gay culture
Originator: czmt@gibbs.oit.unc.edu
Organization: University of North Carolina
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 01:09:18 GMT


I'm going to be writing a paper for my English class in a couple of weeks
on gay culture.  Could anyone email me suggestions? (i.e. interesting
vocabulary words that most straight people don't know, gay club
atmosphere, or other general things that make us our own culture)

Thanks!!!!

Season


-- 
                     ____  
Season Taylor        \  / "thought i knew my mind/like the back of my hand/
czmt@gibbs.oit.unc.edu\/   the gold in the rainbow/nothing panned out as i
(yes, as in the 4)         planned"   --indigo girls
Xref: sparky soc.motss:47424 alt.politics.homosexuality:7173 co.politics:1962
From: mjs@fc.hp.com (Marc Sabatella)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:55:51 GMT
Reply-To: marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Gary Strand (gary@isis.cgd.ucar.edu) wrote:
: 
:   As has been pointed out to me, #2 forbids homosexuals, lesbians and bisex-
:   uals from claims of discrimination. It does not do the same for heterosex-
:   uals, since the original ordinances in Denver, Boulder, and Aspen make ref-
:   erences only to "sexual orientation", not specific sexual orientations. In
:   retrospect, it's even better that I voted against it. However, if #2 had
:   been stated as simply "sexual orientation", I would have voted for it.

I would not have, and I'm with you 100% on the desire for a general right to
discriminate in personal matters (ie, everything but government hiring).
However, I am also enough of a pragmatic to recognize that in some cases, this
can lead to systematic bias against a group, and am not totally opposed to
using the government to fix this.  Does this bias currently exist for
homosexuals?  Unclear at best.  But assuming someday it clearly does, do we
really need this artificial roadblock?

You are correct in observing that this wording would have forbade homosexuals
and heterosexuals equally from obtaining protection against discrimination.
But the reality of the situation is, one of those groups (and it isn't the
heterosexuals) is much more likely to "need" that protection, if we admit the
possibility that anyone deserves it.  That is, if we accept the fact that some
groups should be protected against discrimination, it seems awfully arbitrary
and blatantly ignorant of the reality of the situation (or potential reality)
to exclude sexual orientation from being such a determining factor.  For
instance, if we replace it with "race", and not "black race", it would be
similarly fair in the sense that it denied protection to both blacks and
whites.  But if we accept that *anyone* deserves protection, surely history
shows that African-Americans do?  Merely saying that blacks and whites would be
treated equally in no way would make it acceptable, again, given that we
believe anyone has the right to such protection.

--
Amendment 2 - Shame On You, Colorado
--
Marc Sabatella
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
--
a disgusted resident of the first state in history of the union
to enact a constitutional amendment that explicitly legalizes discrimination
against a particular minority
--
All opinions expressed herein are my personal ones
and do not necessarily reflect those of HP or anyone else.
From: rich@netcom.com (Richard Poppen)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: OCA launches _new_ petition drive
Date: 5 Nov 92 07:51:50 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <Bwyp7F.ALI@agora.rain.com> bcapps@agora.rain.com
(Brent Capps) writes:
>AND NOW!  FROM THE SAME KIND FOLKS WHO BROUGHT YOU OREGON MEASURE 9!
>   *   *   *   A new initiative petition drive   *   *   *
>to establish an government committee to oversee and control radio,
>TV and print news coverage.  All news reports would be scrutinized by
>this committee and censored for bias.  The OCA would, of course, have
>a seat on this committee.

If you hadn't said
>No, I'm not making this up.  They're perfectly serious.
I would have thought it was a joke.

At least this one is so blatantly unconstitutional that even the current
Supreme Court would overturn it.

--Rich, still happy about yesterday on balance
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: gandalf@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu (Thomas M Farrell)
Subject: Re: colorado springs
Organization: College of Computer Science, Northeastern University
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:33:06 GMT

Last night, CNN Headline News reported that a student in Colorado Springs
(it didn't say what grade level but it definitely didn't sound like college)
was sent home to change his shirt after arriving for school in a Penguin
(from Batman Returns) t-shirt. It seems that the principal said that the 
shirt was unacceptable because it is "satanic." 

Aparently the same student had been sent home to change his shirt before.
On the previous occasion, his offense was wearing short sleeves.

The anchorperson was indredulous.

I think this gives me a definite feel for the area... you won't catch me 
in Colorado Springs in the near future. (Even after CO-2 goes down.)

			Tom
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Jesus and Lazarus
Date: 8 Nov 1992 11:37:21 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Nov8.173921.3642@prime.mdata.fi> 
kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari Nenonen) writes:
> I heard that in soc.motss was given out a story of an archaelogist 
> early in this century discovering a supressed version of one of the 
> synoptic gospels. 

I seem to have missed that article.

> In this version,
> Lazarus was seen at night leaving Jesus's room wearing only an
> undergarment.  If anybody knows this story or have it, would you please email
> it to me.

Well, in the regular, not-suppressed version of Mark appears
the following:

14:51 And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth
      cast about his naked body; and the young men laid hold on him:
   52 and he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.

Frank Kermode wrote an interesting essay on this passage called
"The Man in the Macintosh, the Boy in the Shirt", which is included
in his book _The Genesis of Secrecy: On the Interpretation of 
Narrative_.

Arne
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Gay Wealth (was: My Letter to Colorado)
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 23:24:29 GMT

In article <GANDALF.92Nov6164502@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu>, gandalf@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu (Thomas M Farrell) writes:
> Me! Me! Me! I'm gay and I'm not well paid! I don't have huge amounts of 
> "disposible income." I eek out a living that pays the rent and the utilities
> and the food and maybe the occasional movie rental. Once a year or so I 
> splurge on tickets to a musical, and I buy used electronics items (videodisk
> players, etc) when I can get them for virtually no cost, to keep me amused. 
> HALF OF MY INCOME pays the rent, and half of what's left is food. The rest is
> expenses, and any leftover really should go in the bank, although it usually
> doesn't.

  If memory serves, you are a student. It is illegal and immoral for
students to be either comfortable or well off. You are merely a thrall,
and your lot in life is set. Get used to it. 
  Btw, tralls -er- students are not to speak until spoken to. 
Disobedience results in punishment. 

> It PISSES ME OFF when I see people talking about how rich gay people are.
> If it's true, GIVE ME MY CHUNK OF THE PIE! 

  See previous point and drop your pants so we can administer the
suitable punishment. An E-hazing is in order here.

> Somebody hire me on a decent salary, PLEASE!

  Begging is OK, I guess :-)

-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Colorado's Amendment 2
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:42:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.091201.18070@lclark.edu>, snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass) writes:
> This is the big one.  Colorado Springs has Five military instillations.
> the Air Force Academy, Petersonfield, Fort Carson, Cheynne Mountain and
> a thingy out northeast of the city!  They are very dependent on federal
> funding!  Soooooo.

  One wonders how much of a correlation the military presence in Colorado 
Springs has to do with the hatred and bigotry toward gays and lesbians.
I wonder whether it is cause or effect of military vs. bigotry, ie
is it that people that join the military are more prone to be rednecks
from Hickville (sorry Shawn) or does the military actually instill
this hatred from their machoesque culture -- or a combination of
both.
  In either case, it seems that lifting the military ban would be a 
major boon to gay people everywhere.
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran)
Subject: Re: Going on the offensive
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 00:31:30 GMT

In article <BxJG0L.3rx@world.std.com> entropy@world.std.com (The Entropic one) writes:
>I've seen several mentions in the press about laws restricting the
>political activities of non profit groups. It seems that Pat Robertsons
>groups are pretty blantantly violating these laws. Just imagine what
>would happen to CBN if they had to pay all the back taxs they owe....
>With that thought it mind dial your congress critters and ask them
>to look into it. If 50,000 people really read this group and if each
>and everyone makes those calls it will be looked into....

His "Christian Coalition" is already under investigation.  Seems Pat
told some people that the _only_ reason it existed was to put the
Republican Party into the hands of "Family-Values Orientated Christians".

--
=kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu | B(0-4) c- d- e++ f- g++ k(+) m r(-) s++(+) t | TSAKC=
=My thoughts, my posts, my ideas, my responsibility, my beer, my pizza.  OK???=
=You know, Colorado has a lot more to fear from a RadiKalFeministLesbianBitch =
=like me than I have to fear from either Colorado or "Them".  Carpe Diem! FWA!=
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ne.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: GOP's future; living with the enemy
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 23:10:31 GMT

In article <thaaang.721089376@cwis>, thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
> >Maybe it'll be hard for him to find a bride after he's
> >been thoroughly outed??  
> 
> Ahem.
> 
> John, in bisexual woman drag (icepick in clutchpurse, of course)

  Now stop that. You'd make a fine first lady -er- love-thang.
Put your icepick back. You could be the most shameless corruptoress
in the history of America if only you play your cards right :-)
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: My Letter to Colorado
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 20:49:41 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

the citizens of Colorado probably thought that measure 2 would affect
only the gay men and women living and working in Colorado.  however,
states are not independent entities since citizens can move freely
from state to state, spending Federal currency.  in considering
Measure 2 for state law, the citizens of Colorado probably neglected
the fact that Colorado does a heavy tourist business, drawing people
from around the country to its ski slopes.  Measure 2 affects not only
the gay men and women living in Colorado but also Colorado's gay
tourists.

i believe that Colorado will learn very quickly that angering the
country's gay population is not an economically sound policy.
articles in the NY Times have already shown that America's gay
population has a significantly larger percentage of disposable income.
the average heterosexual household makes around $35,000 while the
average gay male household makes around $55,000.  with $20,000 extra
and no children who need clothes, food, and a college education, gay
couples are likely to travel, but we are not likely to travel to a
state which legally discriminates against us.  is Colorado prepared to
lose the disposable income of the gay community, especially in hard
economic times?

make no mistake.  the gay community has become a loud political and
economic power in the United States.  our power to affect change has
been most recently demonstrated with the Presidential election.  gay
issues, including civil rights for gay people, were loud and visible
at both the Republican Convention and the Democratic Convention.
never before in history have gay issues been so visible, and exit
polls show that 71% of the gay population galvanized to place Bill
Clinton into the White House.  the gay community has been deeply
angered by the passage of Colorado's Measure 2, and since the
enforcement of this discriminatory bill crosses political party lines,
we will *all* organize against you.

when Colorado legally cast me as a second-class citizen, i was forced
into action to defend my right to live as an open, gay man.  until
Measure 2 is repealed, i will not support Colorado with my disposable
income in *any* facet, including any business, company, or corporation
located in Colorado.  give me liberty or lose my money!
-- 
Queer Without A Cause!
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
From: katbea@katbea.Auto-trol.COM (Kathy Beatty)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: more colo phone #s
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:48:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: katbea.9211101648.AA10487
X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA07555; Tue, 10 Nov 92 09:07:21 -0800
X-Received: by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA17162; Tue, 10 Nov 92 09:07:20 -0800
X-Received: from auto-trol.com by csn.org with UUCP id AA07728  (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for soc.motss.usenet@decwrl.dec.com); Tue, 10 Nov 1992 10:07:17 -0700
X-Received: from katbea.YP.attc (katbea.auto-trol.com) by Auto-trol.COM (4.1/SMI-4.0)id AA27747; Tue, 10 Nov 92 09:49:00 MST
X-Received: by katbea.YP.attc (4.1/SMI-4.1)id AA10487; Tue, 10 Nov 92 09:48:54 MST
X-To: chorus@psych.toronto.edu (gala list)
X-Cc: soc.motss.usenet (soc.motss)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.2 PL7]

We had a community organizing meeting last night with the Mayor's Gay & Lesbian
liaison committee. There were about 1000 people there, and we broke up into
smaller action groups to get started planning. The proposal is to create a new
umbrella organization, the Colorado Human Rights Commission, under which these
committees will operate. The proposed CHRC will be the umbrella organization
for other civil rights groups, as well.

One of my biggest concerns is that we will not be committed for the long haul.
This fight is going to have to be waged in terms of years, not weeks or even
months, and I did not get a good feeling from the crowd about this; it felt
like most of us were there expecting immediate results. We will see over the
next few weeks, as the action committees really get going. It is my fervent
wish that I am just seeing this through an old jaded activist's eye, and that
there will be more commitment to the continuing fight than I sensed last night.

On the news front, Coloradans for Fascist Values will be holding a news 
conference, no doubt to gloat, at OUR State Capitol, Thu. 10:30 a.m. We will
be there at 9:30, and we plan to circle the Capitol. Others will be dropping
banners off of overpasses on I25 so the bigots from Colo. Spgs. will know 
that they are not welcome in our city. There's a meeting Wed. night to finalize
plans (which I can't go to because as President of Denver Women's Chorus, I
will be presiding over our Board of Directors meeting that night).

G.L.A.A.D./Denver wants to put up a billboard "expressing the injustice and 
shame of Amendment 2," that will stay up until Amendment 2 comes down. They 
need money for this endeavor. Contributions should be earmarked for "Billboard"
and payable to "GLAAD/Denver." Send to:

	GLAAD/Denver
	P.O. Box 100552
	Denver, CO 80250

Here's more phone numbers. These people are being inundated by calls from the 
religious right phone banks. If you can, let them hear your voice as well.
The area code is 303 for all of these numbers.

	Governor Roy Romer: 866-2885
	Mayor Wellington Webb: 640-2721
	Congresswoman Pat Schroeder: 866-1230
	KWGN Channel 2: 740-2222
	KCNC Channel 4: 861-4444
	KMGH Channel 7: 832-7777
	KUSA Channel 9: 892-9999
	Rocky Mountain News: 892-5000
	Denver Post: 892-1010
	KOA Radio 893-8500


Keep on fighting,


Kathy
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: kmac@cisco.com (Karl MacRae)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Where to buy some nice pumps....
Date: 11 Nov 1992 22:41:57 GMT
Organization: cisco Systems, Menlo Park, California, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: regal.cisco.com

In article <69021@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>Karl Elvis MacRae writes:
>>...What I didn't count on was how nasty it would be to have my
>>leg and chest hair growing back in. Geez, maybe I should have used
>> nair instead? Ugh.
>
>Maybe you shouldn't have shaved it off in the FIRST place.
>
>The best answers are **SO** simple.

	You damned bears always say that. =B^)


	Actually, aesthetically, I agree with you. I look much
	better furry. But 1) the mindfuck of all my very straight
	friends reactionss was worth it, and 2) I discovered I really
	to have rather nice legs for a skirt. 

	So it was worth the discomfort!


		However, now that the beard is returning, I finally
	recognize myself in the mirror again....



			-Karl


  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
  Karl Elvis MacRae	Software Release Support	Cisco Systems
  kmac@cisco.com -or- batman@cisco.com     415-688-8231   DoD# 1999  FJ1200
	(I left my bear code in my other .sig.....)
  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
		S&M? No thank you, I like M&M's!
						-K. Fang
Newsgroups: soc.motss