From: lvc@cbnews.cb.att.com (Larry Cipriani)
Subject: Re: interesting [and scary] blurb...
Organization: Ideology Busters, Inc.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 15:58:50 GMT

In article <1hu3jkINNj7k@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bu008@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brandon D. Ray) writes:
>
>Because you realize that we are all human, and vulnerable, and that at
>bottom we have more in common than we have keeping us apart?

Sorry, I don't believe this pie-in-the-sky we're-all-okay philosophy
one bit.

>Because you value human life more than petty politics?

To me, politics is applied ethics, and I take both very seriously.

>>Why the hell would you want to do that with your own values and dreams ?
>>
>Same reason.

Okay, that's your choice, go for it.  I choose to not help criminals live.

>>>I am personally disgusted that someone could have the potential to be
>>>so selfish to not share something of which they have no need.
>>
>>Be disgusted; you won't get my organs either.
>>
>That's very grown-up and considered of you, I am sure.

I have thought about it a lot.  It doesn't make me happy, but I can live
with that.

>>Why is it so hard to comprehend that some people
>>feel strongly about their values and dreams ?
>>
>It isn't; it is just always something of a shock to find someone whose
>values and dreams are so odious as yours appear to be.

What is odious to me is being so willing to give aid and comfort to evil
people.

Suppose your father was killed in a car accident by a drunk driver, and
that driver needed a new liver because of his drinking problem.  If you
were in a position to decide whether or not he could have your kidney you
would let him have it ?  I would not do it, not even for a million dollars.

>>If you have no values and dreams, well, fine, give your kidney
>>to Jeffery Dahmer.  Actualy, don't he'll just eat it.
>>
>If he needs it, I will.  He is a human being, no matter what crimes he has
>committed.  

This is odious to /me/.  Would you feel the same way if he ate one of
your children ?

I suppose this gets into /religous/ isues and value conflicts, so we're
just going to have to agree to disagree.  Otherwise this is just going
to go on forever with no resolution.  And we both have better things to do.

>I work with medical students and medical residents on a daily basis.  I have
>a very clear idea of what uses human cadavers are put to.  It doesn't bother
>me.

A friend of mine in college described some pretty gross practical jokes
played on her while she was in an anatomy class.  Having a sense of humor
about this is a way of dealing with what disturbs us.  I don't see how it
can not disturb someone at all.

>I have no use for my body once I am dead.  Why should I care what happens
>to it?

See above example, come up with some of your own.

>...
>Well, that "right" is already severely circumscribed.  You cannot, for
>example, have your body dumped in the river,

That would be polluting.

>or chopped up and fed to the starving children in the neighborhood

Cute.

>(oh...I forgot...you are not a humanitarian,

Sure I am, I just choose not to help criminals, and lacking the ability
to discriminate between criminals and non-criminals I choose to do nothing.

I agree the vast majority of people are decent, but I don't want to
take any chances that I would be helping some evil person.

> [more cheap shots deleted]

>Yet you complain about something as harmless to yourself as this,
>and something which may help a number of other people?

I'm interested in furthering my values and ideals even after I am dead.
Helping someone who is opposed to those values and ideals is inconsistent
with that goal.  This is not /harmless/ to me, hence I'm complaining.

>It is different because your house and personal property have intrinsic
>value, and your corpse does not.

Nothing has /intrinsic/ value, i.e., value in and of itself without
people.  Only people can give value to things.  I value what happens
to my corpse.

>It costs your estate nothing...not one plugged nickel...to give your
>organs to another person or persons.

This believe this is incorrect.  I have heard from my attorney that
the estate of organ donors can be required to pay for the cost of
organ harvesting.  If that's not true I would like to know it.

>Oh, horseshit.  It is also within the realm of possibility that your corpse
>might be taken to the hospital kitchen because they didn't have enough
>money to buy meat for the stew that week...but it is not much more likely.
>I work in this field....a human being's medical care is very carefully
>documented every step of the way from the moment of admission until the
>moment of death...then his body is tracked from the moment of death until
>it is released in the custody of the undertaker.

In the US today at least; what about everywhere else ?

>This is not to say that the scenario described can't happen...anything
>is possible.  But it is not even vaguely likely.

Okay, I accept that.

>Why don't you worry about something with a serious
>probability of occurring...like the chance that you wil be killed in an
>auto accident on the way home from the hospital.

I do; I wear seat belts and take other precautions; someday I'll take an
advanced driving class.
-- 
Larry Cipriani, att!cbvox1!lvc or lvc@cbvox1.att.com
Judge and be prepared to be judged  -- Ayn Rand
Xref: sparky alt.society.civil-liberty:7055 talk.politics.guns:25694