HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: joy@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Chien-Chung Chen)
Subject: Re: A letter from legislator Chu
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 04:01:47 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.032809.25455@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tom Li) writes:
>
>In article <1993Jan26.180456.7731@zip.eecs.umich.edu>, joy@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Chien-Chung Chen) writes...
>>Rejection of the 2nd land reform is one of the things I feel negative
>>about Lee. But I can understand that he did so in order not to irritate
>>most of the people who have a piece or pieces of land before the election,
>>be it smart or not.
>
>In fact, the 2nd land reform does not aim for all land owners but land 
>speculators. There are some people distorted the fact to scare people.
>And KMT did not handle this issue well and resulted in Wang's resignation.

Well, without those land speculators "frying" Taiwan's land, the land
price would drop rapidly. This is why most land owners do not welcome
the 2nd land reform.

-- Chien-Chung Chen
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: hhwu@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (eric.wu)
Subject: Who can be the President of ROC?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:40:31 GMT


While we are talking about how the President is doing his 
job, maybe we can take one step further.  What do you want 
the President to do in his job?  Whom will you vote for if 
we can vote for our own President tomorrow?

I can make up a wish list quickly but I have a hard time 
identifying a candidate.  Am I the only one having this 
problem?

Eric
Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:17459 soc.culture.china:35098
From: chchen@milton.u.washington.edu (CHEN)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
Subject: RE: Unification of China and Taiwan
Date: 24 Jan 1993 04:42:36 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: world
Reply-To: chchen@u.washington.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: milton.u.washington.edu

In article e2liuzhe@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (Zhen Liu) wrote: -----
>any other choice. at least CCP keeps China in order and gives them a peaceful
>life. is any chinese democratic organisation abroard capable to this job???

How do you know they can not do the job ?  You must judge by the fact
that these organizations do not have army.

>I feel sick and shame when those democratic fighters fight for power!!!!!!

You are not feeling sick when the Republicans and the Democratics in US
fighting for the power for the White House ? Do you feel sick and
shame that  KMT and DPP are also fighting for the power ?

>what we care is the future of china, not of CCP or KMT. but so far the CCP
>is the only hope. we don't have any choice.

I am deeply moved by  a song for Your Great Chairman Mao. 
"Chairman Mao has only one mind, that is, to save China."  

C-H


Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:17624 soc.rights.human:5024
From: chyang@rhodeislandred.engin.umich.edu (Chung Hsiung Yang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.rights.human
Subject: Re: You call this marketing ?  I call it a shame.
Date: 28 Jan 93 19:58:04 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
NNTP-Posting-Host: rhodeislandred.engin.umich.edu
Originator: chyang@rhodeislandred.engin.umich.edu


In article <1k7cebINN584@pollux.usc.edu>, mcyang@pollux.usc.edu (Bien-Chao Iunn) writes:
> 
> In article <1jid0vINNrlg@pollux.usc.edu>, mcyang@pollux.usc.edu (Bien-Chao 
> Iunn) writes...
> --  The KMT military controls many news
> -- media, including one of the only three TV stations, many newspapers,
> -- several Political Warfare institutes which produce many military media
> -- personnel, and a very well funded military edication/brainwashing network
> -- which includes newspapers and TV programs.
> -- Every single male in Taiwan has to undergo military brainwashing
> -- for at least two years.   Many military media and political warfare
> -- personnel simply join the only three TV stations after they retired.
> 
> In article <1993Jan20.224754.966@engage.pko.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com 
> (Tom Li) writes:
> >The better term is marketing. If you think US doesnt "brainwash" people then 
> >you are wrong. The issue is how many people would buy-in those "brainwashing"
> >I received a TI netter's e-mail about the reasons why we should go for TI, 
> >I think he has been completely "brainwashed" by TI's propoganda. So stay 
> >awake and make your own judgement.
> 
> It seems that someone is trying as hard as he can to whitewash the crime
> committed by KMT(KuoMingTung or Nationalist) regime of Taiwan.
> 
> There is a distinct difference between marketing and political brainwashing.
> The definition of political brainwashing only applies to those cases that
> the target of barinwashing is forced to listen to or watch material given
> to him/her by the authority whom he/she has no power to resist.   This
> happens one day per week to every man in Taiwan during their 2 to 3 years
> mandatory military service.  The day is filled with political education,
> discussions and activities.  In certain extend, this also applies to every
> high school students who are required to take military education classes
> two hours per week which usually filled with political propaganda.
> 
> The regime has total control over the writing and editing of the
> textbooks used by all the public and private elementary and high schools.
> Political propaganda about Chiang Kia-Shek, who is portraied as the
> nation's greatest savior, and the achievement of the ruling party are
> the common theme of these materials.
> 
> And there is a ban on having new TV and radio stations.   All the three
> TV stations are at least 50% own by either the government, ruling party
> or the military.
> 
> And you call this marketing ?  I call it a shame.


	Current reforms will free up the air-waves in a short time.  Then
lets see if you will have any more excuses to criticise us Taiwanese people.


- C. Yang.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: joy@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Chien-Chung Chen)
Subject: Re: Those Typical Taiwanese
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:13:21 GMT

In article <1jpcabINNk0f@shelley.u.washington.edu> cache@carson.u.washington.edu (Chung-Ho Chen) writes:
> I have a feeling that RAJA is a Taiwanese.  He most likely just
> escaped from " Long Fa Tong". Believe it or not.

This is an insult to Long-Fa-Tang's residents. At least they have more
class than this RAJA.

-- Chien-Chung Chen
Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:17566 alt.culture.indonesia:1005
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Re: Indonesian, Chinese and Raja
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:44:33 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science

In article <1993Jan27.035140.26579@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tom Li) writes:
>
>In article <1993Jan27.032552.25342@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tom Li) writes...
>> 
>>In article <1k4nsgINNq4m@pollux.usc.edu>, mcyang@pollux.usc.edu (Bien-Chao Iunn) writes...
>>>In article <16B5EFC66.RAJA@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu> RAJA@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu 
>>>writes:
>>>> 
>>>>I    A M    A    C H I N E S E (I just said it but not so proudly because I'm
>>>>                                helplessly associated with people like you)
>>> 
>
>I really dont know what Mr. Iunn's *intention* is. Embarrass "Raja" or those
                                *********************
>Chinese in Indonesia or ...
A sour, bittered soul, takes pleasure over other's(Chinese compatriot's) misfortune.
 You will find a lot of this kind of "Chinese" among those from HongKong,
Taiwan(of course not all).
From: chchen@milton.u.washington.edu (C-CHEN)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: We care.
Date: 21 Jan 1993 07:02:24 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: chchen@u.washington.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: milton.u.washington.edu

Observing the exchanges between the netters and RAJA ??, the following
recommendation is suggested:

A psychiatrist must be sought for RAJA ?? before it is too late.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: Those Typical Taiwanese
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:07:34 GMT

In article <1jpm5sINNh1i@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> chyang@crevecouer.engin.umich.edu (Chung Hsiung Yang) writes:
>
>In article <16B5D139A5.RAJA@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>, RAJA@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu writes:
>> In article <i8PoXB1w165w@student.business.uwo.ca>
>> g3wong@student.business.uwo.ca (Gregory Wong) writes:
>>  
>> >
>> >Hey Raja! You don't think Taiwan's rich? Take a look at the foreign
Showing off wealth is not perceived a good deed in both East and West culture,
expecially in East Culture.

You can sense Taiwan/Taiwanese showing off wealth, not only among individuals,
also institions, and even Taiwan government. I got this feeling from reading
Taiwan's newspaper, listening to it's radio. Do you guys notice  a seris of 
commercials on behalf of Taiwan on Time magazine? One commercial boasted 
the Six Year Plan, in term of how much money Taiwan has. Those kind of 
blantant, clumsy self-serving(I am not sure it serves good), not only about
wealth, also about "Excellence Made In Taiwan". Some time it became so
radiculous. Example: One ad says something like Taiwan has stepped into space
age because Taiwan makes tennis racket with light, enduring material which is
also used by U.S. spacecraft. Another ad says Taiwan is the first to make PC
with 32 bits words. Come on! To increase words from 16 bits to 32 bits in PC is
a grad student's term project.
Taiwan is peculiar, unique on this. It might have some to do with KMT's defeat
during Civil War. It is so urgent to them to feel recognized, valued. Adding
to their image more than just losers during the War.
We often see this king of behavior among individuals when he/she has some
defact in capacity or personality, they tend to emphsis some other apsects of
their life in front of others. But for people with strong will, he/she may
only work on it, not to show off his/her strentgh to remind everybody else his/
her defect. 

How can a group of people behave like that!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: hhwu@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (eric.wu)
Subject: Re: A letter from legislator Chu
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:37:03 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.215710.19443@eecs.nwu.edu> changht@eecs.nwu.edu (Hsin-Ter Chang) writes:
>I read an public letter from Legislator Chu to President Lee on World Journal
>  The rest of article deleted.

I feel positive about President Lee and I have a very simple
reason.  He inherited a KMT that he had very little control.  
And while some of us don't feel that he deserve the Presidency 
he also inherited, think about what the Da4 Lao3s in KMT felt 
when he became the President.  Given the support he had for the 
two jobs, and compare Taiwan's political environment today and 
just a few years back, I think he did fine.  Of course many 
others contributed to the achievement too and one of them is 
the people in Taiwan who helped push Taiwan to what it is now.

Eric

PS:

I wonder whose idea it is to publish his wife's book.  I will
be very embarrassed if I were Lee.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tom Li)
Subject: Re: China's GNP and why Steven Lin is so biased?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 15:01:54 GMT


In article <1jrcu2INNaih@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>, guowei@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Guo Wei) writes...
>
>I think mainland lags behind Taiwan on per capita basis about 20 years. There
>are detailed reports on this.(also refer to Economist above) This is reasonable
>because in late 1950s mainland and Taiwan were about at the same level. From
>1958( the year when Great Leap Forward began) to 1978 (the year when Culture
>Revolution was completely over and CCP adopted the reform and open-door 
>policy), 20 years were wasted. 

I heard during the 50s before the Great Leap Forward, China did pretty well 
in economy. Then Mao brought those political movements, not only had stopped
economic development but also had changed characteristics of the Chinese 
people. (this has resulted in the difference in "wealth" and mentality between 
straits, IMO).

20 years were really wasted. I wonder how historians are going to say this 
unthinkable period.


>     The reason I am interested in this GNP thing is because sometimes I am
>myself very confused. I am not trying to prove that mainland is having a 
>living standard higher or even close to that of Taiwan. But if you insist that
>mainland GNP is as low as the official figure or even lower that will not 
>bother me. I don't care.

Frankly, whether Chinese GNP is $400 or $1100 does not really matter. It is 
not Chinese people's fault being "poor" but the government's. But not to 
admit the problem or blame people in Taiwan for their "show-off" is a shame. 
If I were a mainlander, I would feel proud about the economic accomplishment 
in China in the past ten years. To feed 1 billion of people is not an easy 
job after all.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: jackw@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jack Wu)
Subject: RE: Those Typical Taiwanese
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin, Texas
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 01:02:40 GMT

In article <1jpcabINNk0f@shelley.u.washington.edu> Chung-Ho Chen writes:
>I have a feeling that RAJA is a Taiwanese.  He most likely just
>escaped from " Long Fa Tong". Believe it or not.

I think you are right. My first thought was that he just escaped
from "Yuan San Dong Woo Yuan" to entertain us. But you know
he is much better than that.

Why don't we express our best friendship to welcome him to join
this group. Greeting cards, fire crackers are always best gifts
to welcome a new friend. I also wish him a very best
"New Chicken Year".

Cheer,




Jack Wu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: pchang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Pei-Yuan Chang)
Subject: Re: cks airport is great?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:53:07 GMT

>>some words from my sister, a flight attendant: only asian airline
                  *****************************
>>companies will emphasize or request so much on appearance of their flight
>>attendants, sometimes even take sex as a marketing strategy by manipulating
>>flight attendants, especially female, as sexual objects.
>>
>    Christine, could you give more details?  What is your
>sister doing?  a flight attendant?
>

yes, lee, she's a flight attendant.

  * christine *
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tom Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: A letter from legislator Chu
Date: 25 Jan 93 19:08:47 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1993Jan25.054806.18486@zip.eecs.umich.edu>, joy@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Chien-Chung Chen) writes...
>
>How can you like this guy when you know he is the first person who played
>Kongfu in the Legislature Yuan? 

Chu is a controversial political figure. People either like him or dislike 
him. 

Several years ago, our parliament was a big joke. The function of the 
parliament has been mostly acted as a rubber stamp for the government. 
Those representatives were either too old to understand the issues or out 
of touch with outside world. Every meeting, you can always see some 
representatives fell asleep or raise the hands as usual occssionally lead to 
support DPP's proposal without awareness. After the meeting, many of them 
rushed into the clinic or the lounge to play Chinese chess. The whole 
parliaments were like a big nursing home. The opposition asked for new 
election for all the seats in the parliament. But KMT said let time to solve 
the problem, ie, those old delegates will die eventually. The opposition lost 
the patience, then there was Chu, started the first punch. Many people then 
followed. Yes, fighting is classless, but at that time the situation was so 
devastated, I dont think there is any other alternative.

I think KMT probably appreciate what Chu has done :-) to help KMT solve the 
problem. KMT was the one to set up "life-term delegation" and it was difficult
for KMT to abandon those "old friends".

At a recent interview, Chu said "after the new election, the legislative Yuan 
should go back to the normal operation, the fighting should be greatly 
eliminated". From now on, I think anyone starts fighting should be kick out 
from the legislative Yuan in the next election.

>I remember he also said something like
>"Politics is simply a subtle way to cheat." 

He said "Politics is simply a subtle way to cheat I am just a politican to
sell my idea to the people". 

In the old days, those who were in the power often protrayed as "the saint" 
"people's savior" or "statesman". But Chu said he is not a savior or the 
saint he can be corrupted also. But if people likes his idea then elect him. 
Dont you think it is better and more honest than those old rulers? Be 
realistic, there are not many statesmen like Dr. Sun, most are just 
politicans, like Bill Clinton, George Bush. But the most important is what 
they can bring to us.

>Li Au also criticized Chu for
>kicking a policewoman's butt. In my opinion he is not only imperfect,
>but disgusting and classless. 

Yes, I agree that is why a lot of people dislike him. But I would rather view
him from a different angle.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: ykhsu@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (yung-kao.hsu)
Subject: Re: A letter from legislator Chu
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:06:35 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.151851.12473@cbfsb.cb.att.com> ykhsu@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (yung-kao.hsu) writes:
>
>	It is difficult for me to forget what may happen to Taiwan
>	if Lee had fatal heart stroked soon after his presidency.
					     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	Oops! I mean "soon after he became the president".

Yung-Kao Hsu
From: chyang@antithesis.engin.umich.edu (Chung Hsiung Yang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Those Typical Taiwanese
Date: 22 Jan 1993 23:27:13 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: antithesis.engin.umich.edu
Originator: chyang@antithesis.engin.umich.edu


In article <1993Jan22.215637.9459@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, thuang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tze-yau Huang) writes:
> In article <16B5D139A5.RAJA@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu> RAJA@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu writes:
> >You also forgot to subtract 
> 
> 1.
> >$50 billion for environment cleanup backlog, 
> 
> I don't know about the number, but the problem is really serious.
> 
> Martial law had discouraged environmental protests.
> 
> Governmental demographic conspiracy had encouraged the proliferation
> of industrial plants throughout Taiwan's petty fields causing serious
> water and soil containmination.
> 
> The temporary-government mentality delayd urban transit plannings
> combined with the unregulated growth of motor vehicles pollutes the
> air.
> 
> The government/business duality of the ruling party have complicated
> the role of the government as the protector of ordinary citizens'
> health and livelihood.
> 
> The price of environmental degradation should also include the cost
> of the cost of health degradation--medicine and the opportunity
> cost of lost production man-hour.
> 


	Yes, I agree it is a serious problem.  But I was very encouraged
where I went home last here to see how the people of Taiwan have become
very aware of environment degredation.  And indeed people are doing 
something about.  Not only the government, but private citizens are banding
together to solve the problem.  The government have not done enough to 
directly attack the issues due to their pro-business policies, but they
have not intervened when people tried to do it themselves.  The government
however, is doing a very good job in education, I think.  The children
are very enthusiasitic about environmental issues and many social group 
have sprung up to help improve the environment.  

	Granted, there hasn't been much evidence at this point because of
the mess created by the six-year infrustructure plan, but if people keep
up with environmental awareness and act on them like that have last year.
Soon Taiwan will be environmentally "politically correct" in they eyes of 
many semi-foreign observers like us.

- C. H. Yang



Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: kao@cae.wisc.edu (Chengheng Kao)
Subject: Re: Sweed need help
Organization: College of Engineering, Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:00:45 CST
Originator: kao@sun-27.cae.wisc.edu


In article <1993Jan24.162933.2803@vax1.mankato.msus.edu>, ndb070@vax1.mankato.msus.edu writes:
|> Hello! I'm a Sweed wich is going to travel around in Asia this
|> summer and Autumn. But I don't know so much about what I should see
|> and visit in your country. Could you help me? What food is the best,
|> What restaurant is your favourite one and so on. What places must I visit?
|> Anythin is interesting for me!
|> 

Taiwan can be the best place or the worst place to visit. It all depends
on your personal preference. If you like to be around people, taiwan is
difficult to beat. Taiwan has one of the best night life in the world (to
me anyway). You can find exciting stuff to do around the clock. If you like
cities like Hong Kong, Tokyo, New York ..., you will enjoy your stay there.
On the other hand, if you enjoy nature, clean air ..., don't even consider
going to taiwan. There is a joke around chinese at Madison. If you hate
a American who like nature, recommend him to go to spend his
annual vacation at Taiwan. It will be the best revenge!


Well, don't let me persuade you not to go to visit taiwan. Even if you can
not stand a highly-polluted place, try taiwan for a very short stay anyway. 
since there are few such exotic places on earth.


Kao
From: 90908648@bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Living costs in China
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:50:37 GMT

stlin@stevelin.Eng.Sun.COM (Steven Lin) writes:

<I have to laugh loud for this piece of information. A junior medical
<doctor makes less than RMB 200 a month, a middle position of MD makes
<RMB 200 and a popular MD/professor makes RMB 300. If the average income
<of Beijing is RMB 300, the doctors in Beijing may be below the average.
<I have to find out home folks in Hai-dian to see what they say.

It is amazing to see Steven being so mixed up. The above phenomenon,
i.e., income of doctors in Beijing may be below the average, is 
call 'nao ti dao gua' by Chinese social scientists, and is a well-known
social reality. No Beijinger would laugh at it. They would rather cry.

<I have to find out home folks in Hai-dian to see what they say.

Obviously, Steven has a home in mainland, that's why he's mixed up.

<A pair of leather shoes is 40, oh that is good and accurate. Last September
<I saw many sneaker shoes along Wang-fu-jin cost 100, but look so bad. When 
<the Addies and Rebok are there, this pair of shoes look like a product of 
<fle-market. The Addies and Rebok cost more than RMB 500. The same shoes
<cost 2000NT in Taiwan, and they are MIT products. 

<I wonder why many people in Beijing like the Addies and Rebok when they
<have to save two month salary to buy a pair of sneaker. Yes, many can
<afford it, especially the students. But, how many can afford it?

It is only one of those amazing things you can find in China. Anything
associated with the outside world are sold at a price beyond its value,
for example, if you return to mainland, you'll find yourself in a situation
to sell yourself ten times your real value at the job market, no matter
how mixed up you are. This is no a personal attack, it's a social reality
called `chong yang mei wai'.
From: jin@gandalf.rutgers.edu (GJ)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: The real story
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:34:36 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

ptyshih@watnow.uwaterloo.ca (Paul T.Y. Shih(Taku)) writes:
>	A poor black man is more likely not able to see tomorrow's sunrise
>	in most large cities in the States than in cities in Taiwan. 

Sorry for a sideissue: I don't think anyone in cities of west cost of
Taiwan can ever see a sunrise, while everyone on the east cost of the US
can see it. Many people told me that sun and moon look bigger than in the US
than in Taiwan, if not rounder.

GL