HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cathy@techbook.com (Cathy Gaupo)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Vancouver Canada- Garibaldi Prov Park
Date: 6 Sep 92 16:03:04 GMT
Organization: TECHbooks of Beaverton Oregon - Public Access Unix

We are planning on heading up to Garibaldi Prov Park in a few days.
We haven't yet got any maps, we are planning on doing that tomorrow.

Is this good backpacking area?   Any suggestions for where to start
or end.  We area thinking of a 40 mile loop. 

I've read a bit about the West Coast trail on Vanc. Island. .
   It sounds terriffic.
Has anybody gone on it recently?  Is it a hard as it sounds? 
How dangerous?  

As we are leaving soon, any replies as soon as possible would be
greatly appreciated!
   
I can be contacted at

 cathy@techbook.com

 Thanks again

 CAthy Gaupo

-- 
cathy@techbook.COM  Public Access User --- Not affiliated with InterCom
Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 220-0636 (1200/2400, N81)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Cows at 12,000 Feet.
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:33:21 GMT

>Something not mentioned in the article about cattle grazing in the bay
>area relates to a recent decision regarding grazing on Mt. Diablo.  The
>grazing cattle helped reduce the amount of underbrush and as a result
>lessened the spread of wildfires.  If grazing cattle do have a impact
>on wildfires I'd rather endure a few bovines with bells on than have an
>entire area wiped out via wildfire.
>
Your comment is understandable but misses a critical point.  Several
native plant species in the SF Bay Area will not propagate unless
their seeds are scorched by fire.  Hence, fire supression serves to
endanger these plants rather than protect them.

BTW, the Park management's position has been that the fire
prevention effect of grazing is not significant.  I don't have any
way to judge the validity of this position but mention it because
you may have been getting just one side of that issue.
From: fletcher@remus.rutgers.edu (Sean A Fletcher)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Moving to California
Date: 9 Sep 92 23:20:13 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


A friend and I are faced with the interesting problem of moving
from New Jersey to California.  We would like to do this in as
entertaining a means as possible.  It occured to us, therefor, to
attempt to rent a truck and drive it across the country.  However,
this is neither good for the atmoshpere nor for one's wallet, as
renting a truck can cost $12,00.00.

What we finally wondered was if it would be possible for us to invite
others in on our move.  In other words, if somebody were to read this
and find that the services of a UHaul travelling across the country
which left from New Brunswick, NJ on or about September 18, 1992 and
travelling to Los Angeles, California, would be a benificial thing for
them, I would urge you to contact me as soon as possible to find out
if we could perhaps work out something affordable for all of us.

Additionally, we would not be opposed to the idea of someone wanting
part of a UHaul for only a portion of our trek.

At any rate, please contact me at any of the following addresses:

		fletcher@zodiac.rutgers.edu
		fletcher@remus.rutgers.edu
		fletcher@gandalf.rutgers.edu

thanks.
sean
From: armstrng@cs.dal.ca (Stan Armstrong)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Mail order equipment sources
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:58:56 GMT
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada

Sorry, if this is an FAQ (Does this group have an FAQ? I am new.)

I am looking for mail order sources of good equipment at better than
local prices. Specifically, I am now pricing Therm-a-Rest sleeping
mats.

If the net has been through this already, please reply by email.

Thanks.
-- 
Stan Armstrong. Religious Studies Dept, Saint Mary's University, Halifax, N.S.
Armstrong@husky1.stmarys.ca | att!clyde!watmath!water!dalcs!armstrng
From: edb@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Ed Beshore)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 23:04:56 GMT
Subject: Re: Outback Oven - A Review
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Greeley, CO
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry


I have received a couple of pieces of mail with some comments on the OUTBACK OVEN
that I thought have answers of general interest...

2LBS is kinda high, isn't it?

Yeh, it is.  I don't think I would take it on a long trip, even
though its the long trips that need the occasional pizza.
Most of my trips are 1-2 nights (sigh), so an extra lb or 2 isn't a 
major issue.

Keep in mind the skillet may easily replace a piece of cookware
you use now.  It is pretty sturdy and is teflon coated and could easily
be useful for other kinds of cooking.

I believe there is also a version of the OUTBACK OVEN that presumes
that you use your own pot. This may mean you don't get a thermometer.
Traveling Light sells round parchment paper disks that can be
placed into a pot to keep the food from sticking to the bottom.
(I have seen the parchment paper at kitchen supplies for less)

FORTY MINUTES OF FUEL?

40 minutes at a LOW setting.  My pizza experiment consumed
less than 1/2 of a shorty (4" high) fuel can.  Easily enough left
to boil plenty of tea/coffee/cocoa water and cook breakfast.  I would estimate a
normal MSR bottle could go 2-3 days, baking each night.

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: dek2@cec1.wustl.edu (Dean E Kassmann)
Subject: Re: south rim treks to phantom ranch
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 19:47:23 GMT

The hike you are planning on doing is a nice one.  I did it last May after
comming out of the Wind River Range.  The hike is a little over 17 miles with
a lot of switchbacks.  Since heights bother you some, you will be pleased to
know that one side of the trail is always upslope.  There are no knife-like
sections by any means.  The trail is also quite wide, since it used bye
those on horseback or mule.  When we went, one of our party was also a little
scared of heights and had no problems at all.
  
   I don't know whether you are planning on doing the entire thing in one day
or not.  The rangers don't advise it, because it is a strenuous thing to do in 
one jaunt.  They end up carrying a large number of people out
who are suffering from exhaustion and heat-stroke. 
 
   There is also no place to get water until you reach phantom ranch at the
bottom.  (I believe there is one place about 4 miles under the rim on the
kaibob, nice springs and stuff).  It is possible to stay at the phantom ranch
but if i remember right, reservations are booked well in advance.

   Needless to say there will be a lot of people on the trail who will look
like death-warmed-over because there not in that great of shape. ( plan for
about 9-10 hours if you decide to do it in one day.)  We brought simple
fanny-packs that carried water and snacks.  Anything bigger would over do it.  

It is a nice hike and the country is beautiful.  Enjoy...

__
-- 
Dean Kassmann              |
Washington University      |  When you seek it, you cannot find it.
Chemical Engineering Dept. |
 dek2@wucec1.wustl.edu     |                        -- ZEN RIDDLE
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Cows at 12,000 Feet.
Date: 9 Sep 92 22:04:45 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <10335@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal F Lillywhite) writes:
>
>Well, I have a solution to the problem of cows in wilderness.  Just
>pursuade the local fish and game people to open a special 2-deer
>hunting season in the area you want to clear of cows (that is, allow
>each hunter to get 2 deer in this area).  This will
>attract a *lot* of hunters.  Furthermore it will attract a lot of
>real idiots to hunt the area.  I guarantee there will be fewer cows
>after those guys get through.  
 
Unfortunately there might also be fewer hunters.

-- 
+==========================================================================+
| John Fereira     | Auspex Systems | "Auspex does not share my opinions.  |
| johnf@auspex.com | Santa Clara CA |  So Why am I still working here?"    |
+==========================================================================+
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern)
Subject: Salmon vs steelhead, was Re: Floating through a forest fire
Organization: NCAR/UCAR
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:23:30 GMT

In article <14594@auspex-gw.auspex.com>, johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
> In article <1992Sep11.182827.7105@ncar.ucar.edu> ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes:
> 
> |Special fishing regulations for the Salmon River (you bet we got
> |fishing licenses -- one of our party (my father-in-law) is a retired
> |Colorado Game and Fish officer) ask fishermen to release any salmon
> |or steelhead trout (which has recently been reclassified as a salmon)
> |caught.
> 
> A steelhead trout is not a salmon. I assume the classification is only
> done to allow the same regulations to be used for both species.
> According to Jim Freeman in "California Steelhead - The Complete Guide",
> "The remarkable steelhead is a rainbow trout that, for reasons understood
> only by the steelhead, runs to sea."

According to an article in National Geographic of 1990 (June or
July or so) the steelhead has been reclassified as a salmon based on
DNA similarities.  It has been given a new latin name in the salmon
family (something like Onorhynnchus, but spelled even stranger).  The
Idaho regulations make distinctions among various species of trout,
and various species of salmon, so this is not an Idaho Fish and Game
peculiarity.

Steelhead and Atlantic salmon share the unusual trait of attempting
to return to the sea again, after spawning.  Pacific salmon die soon
after spawning.  

-- 
/\                Ilana Stern DoD#009  ilana@ncar.ucar.edu 
  \_][ <--NCAR       Colorado...is totally rectangular.
      \_Boulder______________________________________________________Kansas__
From: ajs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Alan Silverstein)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 23:04:03 GMT
Subject: Re: water storage for emergencies
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

> The bacteria *do* grow in such water, and what's more, they react with
> the chlorine to produce chloroform.

Amazing.  I stand educated.  Pray tell, what the heck do bacteria *eat*
in a sealed previously-chlorine-sterilized tap water environment,
anyway?

> A few healthy swigs every now and then won't hurt you, but if you are
> living off that water it can make you sick.

Hmm...  chloroform...  I would guess that even old water would be
safe(r) if you let it stand for a day open to the air, to evaporate such
nasties, before drinking it.  I suppose one could also boil/filter/etc.
it, like any other questionable water, given the resources to do so.
(But at that point I might as well trek 1/2 mile to a nearby reservoir?)
From: donehoo@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Doyle Donehoo)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Hiking in Yosemite in early October
Date: 9 Sep 92 22:37:46 GMT
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

In article eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>P.S. It snowed down to 10K last Thursday.

...and friday it was 70 degrees on the trail. By sunday it was 100 
degrees on the trail. I was up to 10k, and it was hot still, no
sign of snow. The nights were actually mild.

The point here is to be prepared for anything. Every month is on record
for having snowfall. Muir called October "the month of continuous
sunshine", and September and October can be the very best months
for weather and backpacking. We usually have Indian Summer at this
time, and San Francisco usually actually warms up. But be ready.
This has been a strange schitzoid twisted summer for weather,
so expect the unexpected.

+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The mountains are calling me, and I must go."   John Muir           |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+

"Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow
into you as sunshone flows into trees. The winds will blow their own
freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off
like autumn leaves."    JOHN MUIR

"I only went out for a walk, but resolved to stay till sunset, for going
out, I found, was really going in."  John Muir
From: kleinschmidt@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Sheep at 12,000 feet
Date: 16 Sep 92 03:23:35 GMT
Organization: NYU Medical Center, New York, NY 10016, USA

Greg Jahn writes (15 Sep 92):
 
>SHEEP .....
>or as I've heard them appropriately called - RANGE MAGGOTS ...
 
John Muir, in his book "My first summer in the Sierras", appropriately 
referred to the sheep driven to the High Sierras to graze there as 
"locusts of the high meadows".  See the frontispiece illustration to 
the first edition of this book.
 
Jochen Kleinschmidt
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Cows at 12,000 Feet.
Date: 9 Sep 92 22:03:28 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <Sep09.154743.32798@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
|In article <1992Sep8.201047.24419@tera.com> richk@tera.com (Richard Korry) writes:
|>In article <18ibk0INNdl1@agate.berkeley.edu> bwood@diva.Berkeley.EDU (Blake Philip Wood) writes:
|>The second paragraph stated that the [cattle] grazing
|>maintained plant vigor and helped keep wildflowers and meadows healthy.
|
|Pity the sickly wildflowers and meadows.  Rejoice in the healing cattle.

Something not mentioned in the article about cattle grazing in the bay
area relates to a recent decision regarding grazing on Mt. Diablo.  The
grazing cattle helped reduce the amount of underbrush and as a result
lessened the spread of wildfires.  If grazing cattle do have a impact
on wildfires I'd rather endure a few bovines with bells on than have an
entire area wiped out via wildfire.

-- 
+==========================================================================+
| John Fereira     | Auspex Systems | "Auspex does not share my opinions.  |
| johnf@auspex.com | Santa Clara CA |  So Why am I still working here?"    |
+==========================================================================+
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Cows at 12,000 Feet.
Date: 9 Sep 92 01:04:40 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <laq994INNe1t@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> petolino@joe.Eng.Sun.COM (Joe Petolino) writes:
|
|Hop Valley in Zion NP was crawling with bovines the last time I was there.
|
The problem that I have with the bevy of bovines that I have encountered
was that they all were wearing cowbells.  We're sitting around the campfire
about 10:00 at night and off in the distance we hear a cowbell followed by
someone yelling, "Don't you cows ever sleep?!?"

-- 
+==========================================================================+
| John Fereira     | Auspex Systems | "Auspex does not share my opinions.  |
| johnf@auspex.com | Santa Clara CA |  So Why am I still working here?"    |
+==========================================================================+
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: brit@wagner.Physics.McGill.CA (Dave Britton)
Subject: Re: Vancouver Canada- Garibaldi Prov Park
Organization: McGill University
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 20:01:45 GMT

In article <1992Sep6.160304.15195@techbook.com> cathy@techbook.com (Cathy  
Gaupo) writes:
> We are planning on heading up to Garibaldi Prov Park in a few days.
> We haven't yet got any maps, we are planning on doing that tomorrow.
> 
> Is this good backpacking area?   Any suggestions for where to start
> or end.  We area thinking of a 40 mile loop. 
> 
> I've read a bit about the West Coast trail on Vanc. Island. .
>    It sounds terriffic.
> Has anybody gone on it recently?  Is it a hard as it sounds? 
> How dangerous?  
> 
>
Garibaldi par is a great hiking area if you don't mind other people.
There are at least two camp grounds; one at the top of the 5000foot
hike up from the highway, and another a few miles beyond at
Garibaldi lake. You have to pay a small fee (there are rangers).
Hikes from the camp ground up black Tusk (it is easier than it
looks to get to the top) and Panarama ridge are excellent..

West coast trail is great but is so popular now that they have
restricted the use.... you have to get a reservation of some sort.
It is tougher at the south end ( lots of vertical ladders to 
climb up and down with heavy packs!) but the whole thing is only
tough in the sense that you have to carry 5 days worth of stuff
with you. Watch the tides if you opt to hike on the beach: be sure
you know where you can get off again. I went early in the season
several years ago and escaped the crowds... the wonderfull weather,
the isolation, and the uncrowded trail made it a memorable hike.

Dave.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Hiking in Yosemite in early October
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 23:41:25 GMT

P.S. It snowed down to 10K last Thursday.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Acting Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Cows at 12,000 Feet.
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:39:19 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Sep10.133214.15162@ncar.ucar.edu> chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu writes:
>johnf@auspex.com writes:
|>grazing cattle helped reduce the amount of underbrush and as a result
|>lessened the spread of wildfires.  If grazing cattle do have a impact
|>on wildfires I'd rather endure a few bovines with bells on than have an
|>entire area wiped out via wildfire.
|
|Too late.  California will crash and burn.  ;^)

I don't understand your followup.  What's the smiley indicate?

-- 
+==========================================================================+
| John Fereira     | Auspex Systems | "Auspex does not share my opinions.  |
| johnf@auspex.com | Santa Clara CA |  So Why am I still working here?"    |
+==========================================================================+
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: Jeff Wishnie <jwishnie@taligent.com>
Subject: Desolation Wilderness Questions
X-Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 17:51:07 GMT
Organization: Taligent, Inc.
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d3
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 00:53:41 GMT

I plan to spend a weekend later this month in Tahoe's Desolation
Wilderness.

Does anyone know what permits I need and what the camping regulations
are? 

Alternately, if anyone has the phone number or the name of the
appropriate ranger station, I'll give 'em a call.

Thanks,

Jeff
jwishnie@taligent.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: kiravuo@hut.fi (Timo Kiravuo)
Subject: Re: Pasta cooker 4 backcountry
Reply-To: kiravuo@hila.hut.fi
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Computing Center
Date: 7 Sep 92 16:00:21

In article <17u6bpINN75u@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> mtnbiker@singletrack.EBay.Sun.COM (Daniel Abernethy) writes:
>then half dome via the cables and maybe merced lake.  Back to the subject
>there are going to be four of us and I'm a big eater, what can I use to 
>cook 1lb of spaghetti??  should I use macaroni instead?  I will pre-make

I just returned from a week in Lapland with my girlfriend and we
had spaghetti twice. No problem. I usually calculate about 150 g
of dry spaghetti for each person, making 1 lb for four a smallish
serving. Especially if those four are big eaters, since I have
myself evenly shared a 500 g (a little over 1 lb) package of
spaghetti with two women and nothing was left over. (Nobody was
hungry either.)

To cook the spaghetti I used the larger pot of the Trangia stove,
its' volume is maybe 2 l. The efficiency of the stove is no
problem, since when cooking pasta, you first bring the water to
boil and then just let it simmer. 

For sauce I have usually used dry sauce mixes with dried
hamburger and spices added. No problem there. 

Dried hamburger: take one lean hamburger, skin it, brown in pan
and savagely attack it with your spatula, until you have small
light brown pieces of hamburger. Spread those thinly on a pan and
put it in oven, in a temperature of 50 C (for people in the USA
and Libya, those two countries who still use the old imperial
system, that is, like, 130 Fahrenheit). Leave the oven door
slightly ajar and change the paper under the hamburger once or
twice. When you have small dark brown crumbs left, the dried
hamburger is ready. 

Store the dried hamburger in cold, it usually has still some fat
left, so it might spoil. When using, add a little bit more water
to whatever you are making. You may let the hamburger stay in the
water a little bit before you make the meal, but it is not
necessary, usually the hamburger is soft enough by the time the
food is ready. 
--
Timo Kiravuo, kiravuo@hut.fi
Helsinki University of Technology, Computer Center, Finland
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: bjr@oddjob.uchicago.edu (Bernie Rauscher)
Subject: Cows at 12,000 Feet.
Organization: University of Chicago, Astronomy and Astrophysics
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 20:53:43 GMT

I just got back from a rather pleasant few days packing around the
Sangre de Cristo Mountains of NE New Mexico. However, I did run into
two things that left me wondering ...

(1) Before entering the National Forest/Wilderness Area, I read all the
usual signs about "leave no trace", use a stove, don't start a campfire
unless *absolutely* necessary, never ... *NEVER* camp within 100' of a
stream or 300' of a mountain lake. In general, the usual stuff relevant to
preserving the area for "future generations".

Imagine my surprise, therefore, to arrive at a small forested glen at
tree line and discover a rather large herd of cattle dropping bucket loads
of what cattle make best into the "fragile" stream. In fact, the whole area
smelled like a pasture and there were large land mines scattered all about ...
right up to and into the stream ... which was the only source of water form
miles around.

After a pleasant, --   but slightly stinky, night at the site I moved on.
And ... to my surprise, what should I find eating the "delicate alpine tundra"
that I shouldn't even *think* about walking on ... but more cows. Yes, another
herd of cattle, this one clustered on the "delicate tundra" and pooping into
the "delicate high alpine lake".

Have others run into this little problem where we humans are asked to
leave no trace, yet the agency that makes this request leases the land
for pasture ... with I suspect disasterous consequences that it would take
a small village of humans to duplicate?

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: campbell@clam.med.ge.com (Scott Campbell Mfg QIE 4-6778)
Subject: Re: Mail order equipment sources
Reply-To: campbell@clam.med.ge.com (Scott Campbell Mfg QIE 4-6778)
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Milwaukee,  WI
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 18:27:00 GMT