From: geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller)
Newsgroups: alt.peeves
Subject: Bush For (Ex)Preseident in '92!
Date: 10 Apr 92 15:50:02 GMT
Reply-To: geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller)
Distribution: alt
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: purplehaze.corp.sun.com



Peeve:  I wrote a reply to this yesterday afternoon, but the newsreader
didn't post it.  Unfortunately, I didn't notice that until I'd already 
posted another article, thus ovewriting the contents of my .article file.
Arrrgh!

!Peeve:  This is a better screed anyway.


In article <1992Apr8.193928.22238@igor.tamri.com> donb@igor.tamri.com 
(Don Baldwin) writes:

>Question:  Do you REALLY feel that Reagan and Bush have been paragons of
>restraint???  Look at the past 12 years.  Grenada was basically an
>instance where Reagan decided to make an example of a miniscule South
>American country.  Reagan had a hardon for Qaddafi and used the bombing
>of that West German disco as a pretext for bombing Tripoli, despite the fact
>that the Syrians (I think) really did it.  Noriega and Hussein were
>hunky-dory in Bush's book, until they refused to roll over on command;
>then, in a manner reminscent of the Drug War hysteria, America was suddenly
>convinced that those two thugs were dangers to our way of life


Sure I think they've been paragons of restraint -- as far as nuclear
weapons are concerned, which is what we were talking about.  Now, if
Raygun had *nuked* Tripoli or Grenada, then you'd have a point.

Those really aren't valid comparisons, anyway, because we don't have signif-
icant running conflicts with either of those places, and the United States 
isn't on the receiving end of missile attacks.  If Iran or Iraq had had
nukes during their 8-year war, do you have any doubt that they'd have used
them?  They were already firing Scuds at each other's cities as it was.

I'd much rather see nuclear weapons in the possession of countries like the
US, the UK and the former USSR than in the possession of someone like Kad-
dhafi or Assad or Kim Il Sung or Saddam Hussein or Khomeini.  (Yes, Al, I
know Khomeini's dead.)  Wouldn't you?  

------

>IMO, if people learned to think critically, rather than swallow whole
>any rancid pap generated by the "spin masters" in Washington, we'd be a
>whole lot better off as a nation.

You're making a mistake if you assume that the only reason someone isn't a
knee-jerking antigovernment malcontent is because he's been bamboozled by
the spin doctors.  That's one possible explanation, but only one among
many.  Reflexively lunging for the explanation that makes the tidiest 
dovetail with your preconceived notions is a good way to pull the wool 
over your *own* eyes.

IMO, if people learned to think critically, rather than automatically
oppose the position and actions of the government, we'd be a whole lot 
better off as a nation.

------

>>But that's not to say that nuclear weapons would serve the same purpose in
>>the hands of a nation like Iraq or Iran or Libya, nations with priorities 
>>that don't necessarily coincide with those of the West or the East. 

>The BASTARDS!  How dare they not align themselves with our priorities?! :v)

I didn't  say their priorities were inherently wrong, necessarily.  I said
that they were different than our own, and the point was that those 
priorities might not be particularly conducive to the healthy custodianship 
of a nuclear arsenal.

------

>The big picture is still sorting itself out at this time, moving in and
>out of focus; thus, it's about as easy to hold on to as a fistful of sand.
>If you're talking about the Cold War as the big picture, I'm afraid that
>even that conclusion is up for grabs.

That's always been the case, to varying degrees, and it always will be.
But that doesn't relieve us of the necessity of acting in what we feel to
be our best interests at any given time.

------

>Sure, we're not standing toe-to-toe with the former Soviet Union
>anymore but look at all the awful things that the US did, in its fits
>of anti-Communist frenzy.  How many people died through torture in
>Chile, after a US-backed coup replaced Allende with the butcher Pinochet?
>How many people died in Nicaragua, as a result of US-sponsored terrorist
>activities?

Yeah, I agree that those were terrible things.  So what's the point?

------

>IMO, the world will have become a sane place when international applies
>EQUALLY all around:  when the extradition of CIA terrorists to Nicaragua
>is as certain as the extradition of Libyan terrorists to the US.

You've been reading too much science fiction, Don.  What this rather 
simplistic view fails to take into account is that nations will always 
attempt to act in their own best interests.  And why shouldn't they?  From
what I've seen, the only thing the United Nations is good for is providing
a decorous backdrop for calculated diplomatic maneuvering and theatrical, 
self-serving righteous indignation. 

Might may not make right, but then, the engine of international relations
doesn't run on morality; it runs on pragmatism, of which military power is
a major component.  Call me cynical, but there it is.

------

>Look, I'm not a Communist OR a pacifist.  There's a time to fight and a
>time for peace.  I just think it's damned dangerous to take the word of
>the kind of thug we've had in office for the past 12 years, regarding
>what time it is.

Again, you're making a mistake if you really think that agreement with the
gummint on some things indicates that one has been brainwashed.  I think
the government in general, and George Bush in particular, are full of shit
in a large number of ways.  But that doesn't mean I'm going to adopt an
automatic adversarial mindset with respect to them.  Having an open mind
works both ways.

------

>You don't see JiZ running around filleting with his sword anyone who looks
>at him funny (as many do), do you? :v)

I've seen Jeffie do some awfully strange things, and I'm sure the surface
has barely been scratched.  :)



Geoff


One of my favorite quotes, and I think particularly apropos:
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    "Visualize world peace.  Good; now wake up and smell the coffee!"
						    -- Bill Berbenich
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