Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:16:09 EST
From: Sonja Kueppers <SEK@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
Subject: Re: Appreciation of the big & beautiful woman
 <1992Dec10.230146.3980@netcom.com> <1992Dec11.132058.11652@grebyn.com>
 <1992Dec12.214107.13139@spdcc.com>

In article <1992Dec12.214107.13139@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) says:
>I didn't.  I'm amazed that such would occur to you.  There's nothing
>pathological about my being attracted to men with beards either, but
>if I started writing a series of articles on the wondrousness of having
>sex with men with beards, it might strike some people as a bit unseemly,
>and a rather hamfisted attempt at seduction.

Bravo, Steve.  While I am not in the least offended when someone admires
my physical form, (at least, if they will also take no for an answer!)
I consider the specific way that Avery makes such remarks to be offensive.

First of all, Avery is not addressing me specifically, but rather is
rhapsodizing about large women in general.  (Though I realize that Avery
is not sexually attracted to all large women, just as *I* am not sexually
attracted to all large women and men.)  If he were addressing me specifically,
I do not think that I would feel so cheap.

Secondly, the type of remarks Avery made were more appropriate to a bedroom
than to a public forum.  If I were to say:

  (The following has been rot13'ed because it makes direct sexual
   references which I find offensive in a public context.)

  V guvax gung beny frk ba n zna vf gur hygvzngr va frkhny orunivbe.
  V whfg pna'g trg rabhtu bs avooyvat ba gur funsg bs n zna'f cravf,
  bs gnxvat rnpu bs uvf onyyf vagb zl zbhgu, bar ol bar, naq ebyyvat
  gurz nebhaq...naq gura penzzvat obgu bs gurz va ng bapr - V cenpgvpnyyl
  snvag jvgu qryvtug.  [rgp.  Guvf gevcr vf znxvat zr fvpx.]
  V guvax gung crbcyr jub cersre nirentr-fvmr cravfrf naq onyyf ner yvxr
  zr va gurve ivrjf nobhg beny frk, orpnhfr vs vg jrer gbb ovt jr jbhyqa'g
  or noyr gb trg vg nyy vagb bhe zbhguf naq guebngf, ohg vs vg jrer gbb
  fznyy gurer whfg jbhyqa'g or rabhtu gurer gb cynl jvgu.

Most people would consider this to be an offensive sequence of remarks.
I don't remember specifically what Avery said, but it affected me
in a similar way.  I felt that it was similarly sexual.

If Avery and I were involved in a relationship, and he said to me
quietly in a restaurant, "I'm really turned on by the way your hips
move in that outfit.  I can't wait to f*ck you tonight!"
I'd probably find the remark, ah, stimulating.  In the bedroom,
I'd find almost anything complimentary he had to say about my
physique stimulating.

Referring to women in general, the exact same remrks would make
me feel cheap.

Incidentally, I do recognize that it is important for larger
women and men to learn to find themselves attractive, and if
Avery has helped anyone in this context, I am glad.  I just
wish that the more overtly sexual remarks (which remind me
of a lust-crazed teenager) could be kept in private e-mail.

Regarding the seduction issue, Avery is wrong in thinking
that news is a forum in which seduction is not possible.
A dear friend of mine is marrying someone in March whom she
met, and learned to appreciate, from his remarks on news.

I, for one, am much less interested in interactive communication
via computer than I am in electronic mail and news; someone would
be far more likely to succeed in "seducing" me using these methods
than by sending messages to my screen.
-Sonja
-----------------------------Sonja Kueppers------------------------------
|SEK@PSUVM (bitnet)            ____  "Sex should be friendly.  Otherwise|
|SEK@PSUVM.psu.edu             \bi/   stick to mechanical toys; it's    |
|MaBellNet: (814) 867-1738      \/    more sanitary." TEFL, Heinlein    |
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