HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: babineau@bnr.ca (Michael Babineau)
Subject: Re: Q: What kind of clipless pedals and shoes to buy?
Reply-To: babineau@bmerh812.BNR.CA
Organization: BNR Ottawa, DMS Software Design
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:30:30 GMT

In article <9208190034.AA20885@hplomg.hpl.hp.com>, BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM writes:
|> Michael Babineau writes:
|> 
|> > I would find it a bit scary using the Single-Release cleat, knowing
|> > the only way to get out is by twisting your heels outward.
|> 
|> What can I say but "fearmonger".  This sounds like the admonitions of
|> non bicyclists when they heard that racers strap their feet into their
|> pedals.  Fools, they were called for not realizing they could rip off
|> their feet.  Mike, I hope you know that people come out of shoes
|> before they rip off their feet (unless they ski).  In car accidents,
|> fully laced shoes are often left behind by passengers in a collision.
|> However, bike shoes separate from pedals long before such a force is
|> exerted.

You'll note that in my original posting I said "I would find it a bit scary
using the Single-Release cleat". This is my own personal opinion, I        
wouldn't try to read more into it than that.

Enough said.

P.S. I do think SPD is a great system especially for offroad riding.


-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|Michael Babineau           | BITNET: babineau@BNR.CA                    |
|Bell Northern Research Ltd.| UUCP  : ..!uunet!bnrgate!bmerh812!babineau |
|Ottawa, ON. CANADA         |         ..!psuvax!BNR.CA.bitnet!babineau   |
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: sham@cs.arizona.edu (Shamim Zvonko Mohamed)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: pros in olympics
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:41:49 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <BsxGG3.I7J@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tlt38517@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) writes:
>I strongly disagree with this.  There's a big difference between a "pro"
>amateur who barely makes aliving from the sport and a pro multimillionaire.

I don't know about this. Compare pre-olympics Lance Armstrong (an "amateur")
with some of the domestiques on the European circuit. Who do you think made
more money from cycling?

The only "true" amateurs are people like us: we have families, jobs and school
to think about, and ride whenever we can, because we enjoy it, and usually make
sacrifices to do so. No one pays us, no one buys us equipment or pays for entry
fees, boarding or lodging. And no one is going to turn out to watch us compete!

>I predict that the increasing commercialization and "professionalisim"
>of the Olympics will result in drastically reduced interest by the
>viewing public.

This may well be true; but there's no way of drawing a line between "pro" and
"amateur" at that level. So let's let the best athlete win, without these
archaic and arbitrary rules. [Besides, why should "professionalism" affect the
audience? The NBA and NFL games have no popularity problems, and they're
professional in the "finest" sense of the word!]

Besides, the idea of this event that happens every 4 years, and is completely
given over to hoopla and politics is silly anyway; in my opinion, the annual
championships in each event are much more interesting.

-s
--
Henri Desgrange, 1902: "Variable gears are only for people over forty-five.
Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles rather than by the
artifice of a derailleur? We are getting soft. Come on, fellows. Let's say that
the test was a fine demonstration---for our grandparents! As for me, give me a
fixed gear!"

  Shamim Mohamed / {uunet,noao,cmcl2..}!arizona!shamim / shamim@cs.arizona.edu
 Member of the League for Programming Freedom - write to league@prep.ai.mit.edu
From: gcarter!gcarter (George Carter)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Q: What kind of clipless pedals and shoes to buy?
Keywords: clipless pedals
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 21:45:20 PDT
Distribution: world
Organization: SFBAC

I would be interested in the overall assessment of those that 
have used both Avocet touring shoes with clips and SPD concerning which
is better?  I haven't tried SPD but so far my impression is the
disadvantages outweigh the advantages (with respect to clips --
they are clearly superior to other clipless systems for most
(non-racing) cyclists.

Disadvantages:

1. Inconvenience of breakdowns: It is easy to carry an extra clip 
   and strap on a ride, carrying an extra shoe and pedal is 
   impractical.  Make that two shoes and two pedals!

2. Time invested in quieting squeeks.

3. Steep climb stall problem noted by Jobst.

4. Less adjustable: toe clips and straps have a very broad
   range of use depending on how tight you pull the strap.

5. More severe consequences of catastrophic failure: usually a toe
   clip will break on one side first, giving the user warning to
   replace the clip.  Also, the Avocet rubber cleat may prevent
   a serious accident if the clip breaks when pushing hard.  With
   SPD, if this mechanism breaks, there seems to be less backup
   mechanisms.

6. Higher cost.

7. Inconvenience of cleaning dirt, bubble gum, etc. out of the 
   recessed cleat area on the shoe.

While the advantages of SPD with respect to other clipless systems
are clear, what are the advantages with respect to the Avocet touring
shoe? 

gcarter@infoserv.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: obrien@netcom.com (Robert O'Brien)
Subject: The race mailing list (was the TdF list)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 07:11:32 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Summary: more trouble getting *off* the ^%$# thing than *on*

To whoever is maintaining the bike race mailing list:

	LET ME OUT!!!!

remove <obrien@netcom.com> immediately.

I've tried, and tried, messages to the person who started it.
Monday, I begin REPLYing to everything that comes in, until I
annoy everybody enough to get removed.

I asked to be on a Tour de France mailing list.  I don't give a whit
about racing in general.  I used to, but you've annoyed it out of me.

I DID NOT receive any information about how to 'unsubscribe' so
don't bother saying it's my fault.

	Bob "sick and tired of trying the *polite* way" O'Brien

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: bschwart@gath.cray.com (Robert J. Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Drillium
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:00:57 CDT

Kurt Brunton writes:
> I have some old components sitting around and the thought occurred to me
> of drilling these out to make some light weight parts.  Is there anyone
> who knows of the best way to drill components
>

I can think of yet another reason not to do this. If you create anything that
whistles, you will be riding alone a lot.

Probably not that easy to do but I do know one guy who inadvertantly figured
it out. And yes, it was a long time ago :)

Bob Schwartz
bschwart@cray.com
From: newman@otto.ycc.yale.edu (Andrew Newman)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Pump lubrication
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:29:01 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Yale University

Greetings,

A while ago it was mentioned that you shouldn't use petroleum based
grease to lubricate a bicycle pump mechanism.  Apparently it eats
the inner tube (like vaseline through a condom).  Ok...so what
*do* I use?  For that matter, what do the pump manufacturers use?
I seem to recall that my Zefal pump had something that sure looked
like regular bearing grease on it when I bought it.


*  ===\  |===|  ===\  *========================================================
*  |       |    |  |  *                 -Andrew Newman                        *
*  |==|    |    |==/  *                  C&IS Systems Technology & Planning   *
*     |    |    |     *                  Yale University                      *
*  \===    |    |     *                  (newman-andy@yale.edu)               *
*---------------------*========================================================
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: stek@alcvax.pfc.mit.edu
Subject: Marlboro circuit race 8-22 & 8-29
Organization: MIT PLASMA FUSION CENTER
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 22:23:11 GMT

The Boston Road Club Presents:

The Marlborough Circuit Race
In Marlborough Mass.  
Take 495 North from the Mass Pike to 20 West.  Then turn left
on Ames St.  

At least $1200 in cash, premes and prizes
The course is a fast 3.1 mile loop with 300 feet of climbing
per lap.  The finish is at the top of the hill this year.
This is the same course that was used for the Eastern Collegiat
Championships last year. 

Sat Aug 22 (pre reg by aug 15)
Cat	Field limit	distance	Time 	Prize   
3		125	50		9:00	$200	
Masters		100	40		11:15	$200	
5&Public	50	30		1:30	medals	
4		100	40		3:00	$100	

Sat Aug 29	(Pre reg by Aug 22)
Cat	Field limit	distance	Time 	Prize		
5&Public	50	22		9:00	medals
Jr		50	37		10:00	$100	
W 1,2,3		100	37		11:45	$100	
W4 & W Public	50	22		1:30	medals	
1,2,3		125	59		2:45	$500    
Entry fee $11 for all races
Add $5.00 for late fee.  Add $5.00 for unattatched USCF racers
All riders must wear helmets.  No tri bars.  Jerseys must
cover the shoulder.  

Send Check and Standard release form to 
John Pappenheimer 
281 Faneuil St.
Brighton, MA 02135
(617) 332-1117
Make Checks payable to The Boston Road Club

Please note that there is no water at the start/finish.
From: bfa@igc.apc.org (Bicycle Federation of America)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: A different twist on the taxes issu
Date: 21 Aug 92 00:29:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:1992Aug18.132038.1997@cs.rochest:1796278913:cdp:1449700038:000:975
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!bfa    Aug 20 17:29:00 1992


Well, for what it's worth, I've long contended that this whole notion of gas taxsupport highway and road construction is one thing, but the RIGHT to public acceaccess to the public right-of-way is something else again.  Where/when was it
determined that we were going to give the whole of the public way over to
motor vehicle use?  It so happens that pedestrians are entitled to travel along
the public way and, if a sidwalk is not provided, may walk in the roadway 
(though there are some obvious problems associated with this).  Again, I would
contend as the bicycle is defined as a vehicle (or treated as a vehicle) in
all state vehicle codes, the bicycle has no LESS right to travel on the
public way than do motor vehicles.  In fact, I think the notion of permitting
nearly exclusive dedication of the the public way to motor vehics violates
the rights of other legitimate users to safe passage.

Bill Wilkinson, Bicycle Federation of America
202 332-6986   bfa@igc.org
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: scott@cs.rochester.edu (Michael Scott)
Subject: A different twist on the taxes issue
Organization: Computer Science Department University of Rochester
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 13:20:38 GMT

There's an active thread going now on the question of whether it would
be good public policy to raise taxes on automobiles dramatically.

I've run into the flip side of the question several times recently.
People argue that bicycles should get off the roads because they don't
pay the gas and registration taxes that support the roads.

There are of course plenty of counter arguments, but I'd like a direct
rebuttal.  What portion of the cost of road construction and
maintenance comes from gas and registration taxes (or other taxes aimed
specifically at automobiles), and what portion comes from other sources
(my State and Federal income tax, local property taxes, etc.)?

Anybody know the answers, or where to find them?

(Please e-mail responses.  The traffic in this group is so high that I
can't count on reading every post.)
-- 
Michael L. Scott
Computer Science Dept.      (716) 275-7745, 5478
University of Rochester     FAX 461-2018
Rochester, NY  14627-0226   scott@cs.rochester.edu
From: jrdodd@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Ammonia Smell
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:51:01 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <kpalm.714356958@athena>, kpalm@athena.qualcomm.com (Kent Palm) writes:
> I experienced that "ammonia" smell this weekend following a hard workout.
> What is it from?

	I can oh-so-vaguely remember seeing an article once about how certain
chemicals that were produced during hard exercise could result in this smell,
especially on the breath.  The word 'ceratin' springs to mind.

	I know this doesn't help much,  but hopefully it could ring a few bells
around the net.

	Jonathan.
From: BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Mold Release & Preservative Agents (was Re: Road tires?)
Date: 19 Aug 92 00:34:13 GMT

Brian Radloff writes:

> I think Conti Grand Prix clinchers are great.  I've been training and
> racing on them for the last 2 years.  Of course Conti is proud of these
> tire and charges accordingly.  I'm fortunate and my team gets them for a
> discount, but I think in the long run, I'd still ride them even if I had
> to pay retail.  IMHO, these are the BEST clinchers on the road.

I'm not sure about the timing so I don't know whether you read my earlier
posting on this subject but I would like to know what comparative evidence
you have for these findings.  Formerly I heard similar endorsements of a
Masi, Pogliaghi, Tomassini or Viner to mention a few, with similar missing
evidence.  I think it is casually expressed in conversation but when it
appears in print I think there must be a little more forethought involved.
Is there more evidence to your statements than you write?

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: babineau@bnr.ca (Michael Babineau)
Subject: Re: Chain Suck on Mt Bike
Keywords: How to Stop?
Reply-To: babineau@bmerh812.BNR.CA
Organization: BNR Ottawa, DMS Software Design
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:33:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.181130.4340@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, mprime@zinc.Berkeley.EDU (Mike  Prime) writes:
|> 
|> I think this came up before but it was before I had my mountain bike.
|> My new bike (Specialized Stumpjumper Comp - Deore XT, Specialized crank
|> and chainrings, Shimano hyperglide chain) has chain suck. What I mean by
|> chain suck is that when I shift, under load, to the smallest chainring
|> the chain gets "stuck" to the chainring and is "sucked" up to inbetween
|> the chainrings and the chainstay. I already scraped up that area pretty
|> good on my first ride.
|> 
|> What can I do?
|> 
|> Mike

Most problems with chain-suck or chain-slap are the result of poor shifting 
practices. Normally this happens if you try shifting to a higher gear 
on a bumpy downhill stretch. Try to shift into a high gear before descending
down the hill and you shouldn't have any problems.

-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|Michael Babineau           | BITNET: babineau@BNR.CA                    |
|Bell Northern Research Ltd.| UUCP  : ..!uunet!bnrgate!bmerh812!babineau |
|Ottawa, ON. CANADA         |         ..!psuvax!BNR.CA.bitnet!babineau   |
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: seligman@CS.Stanford.EDU (Scott Seligman)
Subject: Re: Descending hills
Cc: LAVERTU@MAINE.MAINE.EDU
Organization: Stanford University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 01:24:31 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.172416.9170@adobe.com> byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer) writes:
> 
> When descending, use the rear brake only, lightly, and
> only when required.


Time for the "which brake" thread, I guess.  You should avoid the
front brake only when conditions are such that using it would cause
your front wheel to skid.  On the road this shouldn't happen unless
you've made a mistake (you're going too fast, didn't see that slick
patch, etc.)

If you use your rear brake in such conditions, you *will* skid your rear
wheel.  Better than skidding the front, but you don't want to back 
yourself into that corner to begin with.

So there are times to avoid your front brake.  A normal, safe descent
is not one of them.


>I haven't broken 50 yet, but I'll keep trying :-).
>(Is there a faster-than-50 club in this group yet ? :-)

As for "brake... only when required" -- nonsense.  Unless you're
trying for the faster-than-50 club.  Scott, come up to Palo Alto
and try Los Trancos Rd.  You'll like it.


Scott Seligman

Internet:  seligman@CS.Stanford.EDU
UUCP:      {uunet,decwrl,sun}!cs.stanford.edu!seligman
From: marchand@lprhp3.epfl.ch
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Schwinn in Europe
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:14:42 GMT
Reply-To: marchand@lprhp3.epfl.ch ()
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne

Sorry to broadcast this answer, but I could not find
to original message on the server so I can't E-mail...

Here's the address of one shop in Geneva, Switzerland,
where you can find Schwinn bikes:

BIKENERGY S.A.
Avenue Blanc 51
1202 Geneve
Switzerland

Tel: 022/738.26.30
Fax: 022/738.26.11

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam)
Subject: Re: Bottom Bracket woes
Reply-To: Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:33:06 GMT

In <1992Aug12.121224.23524@cs.hw.ac.uk> sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk (Stewart Fleming) writes:

>The problem is this :  I wanted to get a new sealed BB fitted, so I took
>my old bike to the shop for fitting.  When I collected it this morning,
>I was told that the adjustable cup had seized in the threads and
>could not be removed.  

Did they go ahead and remove the fixed cup so that you at least have
access to the back side of the adjustable cup?  If not, that's a good
place to start if it can be done.

Also, what materials are you dealing with?  Aluminum on aluminum
threads are a horror to work with, while steel on steel threads often
just need some heating and lubrication.

>Now, this might be OK, if the "mechanic" in the
>shop had not taken a hammer to the adjustable cup and deformed the
>slots where the remover tool fits.  No normal approach is ever going
>to shift that cup now.

If the hammer blows only deformed the outside of the cup, you should
still be able to get it out.  If the shop deformed the rest of the cup
and/or the shell, you may be in trouble.

A competent machinist can make new places to grab the cup, e.g.
grinding flats for a wrench, drilling holes for a pin spanner.  How
well this would work depends on how much material is available to
grab.  If there's very little cup outside the shell, you might end up
deforming the cup without unscrewing it.  My first attempt on these
lines would be to use a heavy-duty pin spanner since drilling a pair
of holes is less work than grinding decent wrench flats.  This should
be possible even if the axle is still in place.

A crude method that sometimes works is to grab the frozen cup in a
hefty pair of locking pliers then wiggle the pliers to free the
threads.  An old-fashioned pipe wrench will also work here, but the
modern adjustable-jaw type are usually too sloppy.

If the axle is out, you can grab the cup through the hole.  A
two-piece tool that screws together and clamps the cup would probably
work best, though a large nut and bolt might work.  Also, a large
"easy-out" might be able to grab the edges of the hole directly.


-- 
 Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@happy-man.com
From: sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk (Stewart Fleming)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Tour of Britain - Stage 4
Date: 14 Aug 92 08:48:25 GMT
Reply-To: sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk
Organization: Computer Science Dept, Heriot-Watt University, Edinburgh


Max Sciandri, protected on most of yesterday's stage by teammate
Sean Yates, held the lead for the 3rd day in the Tour of Britain.
Stage 4 was pretty flat, with only 2 4th category climbs and 3
sprints.  Th weather was wet (again).

Carrera rider Remo Rossi made a bid for freedom in a solo break
67 km from the finish and was only caught on the closing cicruit
of Coventry city centre.  At one point, he had a lead of more
than 5 minutes.

The race goes into its final day with the stage from Nottingham
to Leeds today with 3 1st category climbs en route.

Stage 4 Results
Lincoln-Coventry 184km (111 miles)

1. A Tieteriouk (Carrera, CIS)		5:11:49
2. M. Earley (PDM, Irl)			same time
3. D. Mann (GBPro, GB)			same time
4. F. Baltado (GB-MG, It)		+1 sec
5. D. Abduzhaparov (Carrera, CIS)	+2 sec
6. A van der Poel (Tulip, Neth)		same time
7. M. Sciandri (Motorola, It) 		same time

15. P. Anderson (Motorola, Aus)		+7 sec
20. S. Yates (Motorola, GB)		same time
53. R. Millar (TVM, GB)			same time

Overall

1. Sciandri 			17:28:27
2. van der Poel			+11 sec
3. van Aert			+14 sec
4. H. Redant (Lotto, Bel)	+16 sec
5. J. Museeuw (Lotto, Bel)	+18 sec
6. Earley			+20 sec

9. Anderson			+28 sec
19. Yates			+33 sec
22. Millar			same time
--
sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk                        ...ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!sfleming
"He not only moved the goalposts, he dug up the pitch
   and took the ball home as well."
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: dahls@fhydra.dnet.unit.no (Joern Yngve Dahl-Stamnes)
Subject: rear derailleur question++
Reply-To: dahls@fhydra.dnet.unit.no (Joern Yngve Dahl-Stamnes)
Organization: University of Trondheim, NORWAY
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 14:21:14 EDT

Hello.

I'm about to upgrade my MTB gruppo to Shimano XT, but I'm not sure
about which rear derailleur to order. There are one short and one large
capacity derailleur. The SS derailleur are for 28T rear sprocket and
got a total capacity of 28T, while the SGS are for 32T sprocket with a
total capacity of 38T.

Just wonder, what does total capacity actually mean (can't find
anything about it in the FAQ). Any info about this would be great.

And about the rear sprocket and the Shimano hyperglide cassettes. What
is the different from the HG70 and the HG90 except for the finish and
the price? In the Performance catalog the price is $21.90 (HG70) and
$23.95 (HG90). Is it worth to pay the extra $ for the HG90?

I will also upgrade the front derailleur and there exist two types, one
for standard tubes and one for oversized tubes. I got a Cannondale
SM700 (91 model). I guess that I need the OS version for my bike. The
catalog does not say anything about the maximum diameter of the tube
the front derailleur can be mounted on. When does a tube get oversized?

I will also buy a sealed cartridge bottom bracket. In the Performance
summer '92 catalog they have in on sale from $19.95. I do not think
this is the complete sealed BB that Shimano announced this year. Is
this right? (I want a BB that I can open!).

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+-+-+-+
* I went back to my mother,           * Joern Yngve Dahl-Stamnes           *
* I said, "I'm crazy ma, help me!"    * University of Trondheim            *
* She said, "I know how it feels son, * The Norwegian Institute of Tech.   *
* 'cause it runs in the family."      * Division of Physical Electronics   *
*       - The Who, Quadrophenia       * e-mail: dahls@fhydra.dnet.unit.no  *
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: news@massey.ac.nz (USENET News System)
Subject: Re: Alpine Star MTB Frames (comments requested)
Followup-To: rec.bicycles
Organization: SMIS, Massey University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 04:48:12 GMT

robinson@akira.ogo.dec.com (will robinson) wrote:
> 
> I was wondering if anyone had an any experience/
> comments about Alpine Star MTBs or their Al-Mega
> frames.  They look _VERY_ stiff but maybe a bit
> heavy - I was wondering if anyone rides one or
> knows if any of the trade rags has reviewed them...
> 
> Or just has any comments about them.

I have the misfortune (after having my bike stolen) to be in the market for
a new bike again, and had one look at the Alpine Stars cromoly elevated
chainstay model (Deore DX componentry).  I picked it up and it was far too
heavy (easily over 30lb) so I gave it no further consideration.

------------------------------------------------------
Phil Etheridge               P.Etheridge@massey.ac.nz
Macintosh Consultant         Phone: +64+6-356-9099
SMIS, Massey University      Fax:   +64+6-350-5611
Palmerston North, NZ         40*23'S, 175*37'E; GMT+12