HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bodom@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Brian Odom)
Subject: Re: Even more Bison (was: Ken's 4-Hit Touch of Death)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 08:10:24 GMT

In <1992Dec13.063123.20468@mercury.unt.edu> jbw@ponder.csci.unt.edu (WEST JASON BRUCE) writes:

>In article <tmorris.724072366@tasman> tmorris@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au (Tim Morris) writes:
>>jbw@ponder.csci.unt.edu (WEST JASON BRUCE) writes:
>>
>>>>I wish they'd make it where I can duck under it at least, if it's gonna take
>>>>off 5 or 6 clicks of energy when blocking.  Just take away the penetration 
>>
>>>   First, it would be more worthless than it currently is if you could
>>>duck it.  It would have *no* use.  Second, it DOES NOT take off 5 or 6
>>>clicks of energy - I don't understand why people insist on saying that.
>>>It's never taken off more than 4 on me - and ussually 3.  If you turn around
>>>while blocking in the middle of his body you will take less hits - almost
>>>negligable actually.  

It can take 5-6 clicks of damage.  I haven't seen it take 7, but it takes
4-6 on a regular basis.

>>>That's why I say it takes off as much as a block
>>>Ryu HK.  Have ryu do a roundhouse HK to you while you stand block, watch
>>>the ticks come off.  Try this in the corner and watch ever MORE ticks come
>>>off.  Although this would be a stupid thing to do, it is just for arguments
>>>sake.  Read my other post for why ducking Ryu's HK is a stupid option.
>>
>>I disagree - the guy on the ground always has the edge when it comes to
>>throwing Ryu as he comes down from the cyclone kick.  Ryu's cyclone is
>>so slow, you can dragon punch it anyway - just hit jab (crouching) then
>>quickly DP.

>   I love the way everyone assumes your are playing Ken/Ryu.  Sorry, but,
>Dhalsim can't dp.  But don't bother telling me how to get out of the
>situation, I just head-spin him.

Tell me about it!!!!!!!
Where I am, Ken/Ryu are NOT so popular where there are constant Ken/Ryu fights.
Here, you won't see many Ken/Ryu fights.  


-- 
Brian T Odom

"We are all manufacturers -- some make good, others make trouble, and still
others make excuses."
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: tmorris@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Tim Morris)
Subject: Re: Ken's 4-Hit Touch of Death
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 11:52:29 GMT

>>I tend to regard the true 3-DP and Ken's five-fierce DP combo as nonsense
>>because of all of the talented players who post to the net, the players
>>are divided into people who have never seen it, and people who claim that
>>exists but cannot describe the joystick and button presses necessary to
>>perform the move.
>>

>Uh, Cyber, regarding the triple DP:  I've seen it, can do it, and have posted
>the joystick motions/button presses on numerous occasions, and even included
>the circumstances it was done in and joystick sequences which are very
>close to the triple DP, but will actually get you the 3 hit DP combo, as
>well as the underlying proof and logic behind it's existance.  

(Why in the hell am I replying to this thread...?)

I think the acid test for any special move is that it can be buffered
with a normal, standing attack.  ALL special moves can be buffered with
at least one other standing attack.  Some are rather tricky - Chun Li's
lightning kick for example - but it can, and has, been done.  So if
the triple Dragon Punch exists, then it can be buffered as if it were
a special move in its own right.  Now, you might argue that a ground
based four hitter involving the DP is impossible because the initial
blow will knock your opponent out of triple range, and only a double
results.  So, Phantom or anyone else, could you post the sequence that
will give you a STANDING FOUR HIT COMBO INVOLVING THE TRIPLE DRAGON
PUNCH on the CAR BONUS STAGE.  Hitting the car doesn't push you back
at all, so it should be a trivial exercise.

Thanks,
Tim.

Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: west@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Bruce West)
Subject: Re: Even more Bison (was: Ken's 4-Hit Touch of Death)
Organization: University of North Texas, Denton
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 09:41:32 GMT

In article <tmorris.724308621@tasman> tmorris@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au (Tim Morris) writes:
>>>I was watching a Blanka vs. Bison match.  At the start of the round, Blanka
>>>scored with his legendary crouching telescopic-arm fierce punch.  Bison
>>>responded with a torpedo, which the Blanka player blocked.  The blocked
>>>torpedo did more damage than Blanka's fierce punch!  This is clearly
>>>ridiculous.
>
>>   A special move doing more than a normal move?  What's the problem?
>>A blocked Chun Li lightning kick does more damage than that - so what's the
>>problem?
>
>The problem is that you can't duck under the torpedo and wham Bison with
>a fierce punch, which is what Chun Li is gonna cop if she tries a
>spinning bird kick against most characters.  Her bird kick is:
>
>  * Easy to spot
>  * Slow to get going
>  * Slow in general
>  * Short ranged
>  * Easy to hit from a crouch for most characters
>
>Also, compare the damage a blocked spinning bird kick takes with one
>that _connects_.  Now do the same for Bison's torpedo.  What other
>special move does more when blocked?

   I said LIGHTNING KICK - not spinning bird kick.  Her "hahaha" kick, thousand
foot kick, whatever.

[other misunderstood stuff deleted]
From: lerner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: can Ryu do a tripple DP?
Date: 13 Dec 92 11:34:57 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Can you do the tripple DP (or fierce, fierce DP) with Ryu?  Ken's I
can do, but with Ryu I get a crouching fierce and then one hit of the
DP.  Can you get two?

Thanks, 

-Michael Lerner
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: petitc@vccsouth02.its.rpi.edu (Christopher Jon Petit)
Subject: Re: Dhalsim vs. com. Z 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:32:24 GMT

holmes7000@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

>Does anyone have any hints on Dhalism vs. computer Zangeif on Ce?  Also who has
>the comos list?

  Well, I play both Dhalsim (Gumby) and Zangief (the Z.).  I HATE playing
against Dhalsim---the reach always gets me.

  Advice:  Keep Zangief away with Forward kicks, Fireballs, and if he gets in
close, GET OUT using a head dive.

  No-one beats the Z. :&)  (Wishful thinking, but hey, I gotta dream :&) )



-- 
Now on sale, in Aisle 5 of the Divine Supermarket---Lives, and Clues.  Buy
yours now and avoid the rush!  They make great Christmas gifts!
Cynicism is only realism projected into the future.
If your fondest wish is to fly, don't draw up plans for flippers.
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: dphantom@triton.unm.edu (darlene an  92sep02 lawry)
Subject: Re: Good of ticking [please read]
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 09:58:10 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

>  3rd round, tight match, 15 seconds left.  Short throw boom your dead.
>It started to catch me off guard - I got worried.  I now play as completely
>cheap as possible.  Not only is it infintely more fun and interesting than
>the normal boring mathes of Ryu/Ryu etc etc - but it improves your skills.
>And next time that shmo tries that crap at the last second you will be
>ready.

So, basically what you're saying is that you felt you'd lose unless you
started playing cheap.  I can understand perfectly your argument that
it's more interesting and improves your skills, but not everyone is
interested in playing cut-throat.  some people want to actually enjoy
playing the game (like so many people say, it IS just a game...and 
people generally play them for enjoyment).  
>
>
>All you master no-throwers....you better start playing cheap and getting into
>"throwing matches".  If you don't you will be destined to lose to true
>masters of the game - forever your words of "cheap" ringing in your own
>ears.
>

Well, every master no-thrower I've seen seems to do just fine...they  
play the game they want to play it.  Just because they might actually lose
to someone who doesn't play in a style they like isn't gonna be the
end of the world.  In fact, they're usually the last ones to cry "cheap"...so
it sounds like you've just got a guilty conscience to me.

---Phantom
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian)
Subject: Best Opening Moves
Summary: Best Opening Moves
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 02:13:57 GMT
Keywords: Best Opening Moves

	

	Although I know my own personal choices, I was wondering what the
	favorite opening moves vs. any given character are in general.  I
	don't remember hearing any threads about this in recent memory and
	in some matches it is important enough to decide the momentum and
	in some cases, the whole round.  More specifically, what is a good
	opening move against Bison?  Or Ryu/Ken vs. Guile?  Just interested
	in opinions in general here, but please try to support them by saying
	"DP at the very beginning, because if so and so does this then you
	can just do that to counter..." or give some sort of reasoning.
	Any thoughts?

		Seth Killian


Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: tzbw5@isuvax.iastate.edu
Subject: Re: Best Opening Moves
Reply-To: tzbw5@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:16:33 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.182819.19409@hellgate.utah.edu>, larsen@hellgate.utah.edu (Steve Larsen) writes:
>inkblot@leland.Stanford.EDU (Thomas Calvin Cannon) writes:
>: In article <BzA3JA.Hqn@news.cso.uiuc.edu> skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian) writes:
>: >	
>: >
>: >	Although I know my own personal choices, I was wondering what the
>: >	favorite opening moves vs. any given character are in general.  I
>: >	don't remember hearing any threads about this in recent memory and
>: >	in some matches it is important enough to decide the momentum and
>: >	in some cases, the whole round.  More specifically, what is a good
>: >	opening move against Bison?  Or Ryu/Ken vs. Guile?  Just interested
>: >	in opinions in general here, but please try to support them by saying
>: >	"DP at the very beginning, because if so and so does this then you
>: >	can just do that to counter..." or give some sort of reasoning.
>: >	Any thoughts?
>: >
>: Well, I'll take the easy one first.
>: 
>: Guile vs. anyone under the sun
>: 
>: SONIC BOOM
>: 
>: After throwing the boom, the worst that can happen is that Guile will end up
>: trading 1 tick of energy. (Ryu/Ken/whatever jumps over and gets one tick off
>: the special move part f their combo)
>: 
>: If the opponent maks a silly mistake, Guile gets a nice head start.
>: 
>: The only counter for this where Guile loses (that i've seen) is Zan's SPD
>: through the boom, and that was on Classic.
>: 
>: >		Seth Killian
>: ---
>: T. Cannon
>: 
>
>Dhalsim crouching strong punch will knock you out of the boom.
>
>Ryu hurricane kick will hit you if started at the beginning of the round
>  like your sonic boom.
>
>Steve
>
         With Sagat ever try walking forward a step then fierce punching?
        It works well if you havent played your opponent before and its not    
>       Blanka. Blanka's very often start out with that ball. Especially the
        Intermediate level people. Most of the time i just block or standing
       forward or short when i know the ball is coming to start.

>
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian)
Subject: Re: Timing and what it all means
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 02:44:20 GMT

prock@teetot.acusd.edu (Big A) writes:

>In article <Bz3675.1F@news.cso.uiuc.edu> skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian) writes:
>>scott@athena.mit.edu (Scott D Bradburn) writes:
>>
>>>[discussion of escaping SPD 'combos' deleted]
>>
	 
	                                                                    B
	[Much discussion about Z deleted for the benefit of "The Prock"]

>Yep.  This is a pain in the butt.  But the forward is even more so.  
>Longer "stun" time leads to shorter window which I have never been able
>to "open" nor has anyone else I have watched play.  (hi Seth:)

>>>In summary:  Yes, DP's and other special moves will break out of at least
>>>some Zangief SPD 'combos' because your oppent recovers from blocking in
>>>time for a counter move.  That's what separates throw 'combos' from true
>>>combos.  Opponents reel from hits for a longer time when they stay in
>>>the block position, which prevents counter attacks and blocking of
>>>any subsequent attacks.
>>
>>       [some words of wisdom on psychological playing]  
>>	a moment do I dispute the claim that Z has great moves.  I still 
>>	maintain that they are, however, not true combos, merely a failing 
>>	on my behalf.  Try the same combo 2 or 3 times in a row, I can assure
>>	you, you too will become a believer.  No throw combos.
>>
>>		Seth Killian

>Once again your modesty outdoes yourself Seth.  You say it is your failing
>that allows the combo to connect.  I maintain that it is Eu-Ming's error
>that allows you to DP.  Now I do in fact hold both of your skills in high
>regard.  So the question becomes...
>Is your modesty warented or not?

	I have gone on and on with this, and the only new development I have
	seen here recently is the general acceptance of the 180 degree SPD.
	While Eu-Ming can do the 360 pretty fuckin fast (I know, just more 
	rhetoric) I'm betting that the 180 can be done faster, and _maybe_
	fast enough to prevent the DP escape.  The ball escape is even quicker
	however, so I'm going to have to be beaten up pretty badly by these 
	180 Zangief's before I'm ready to admit it's a true combo.  For now,
	I only know that we do have great Zangief's and I can get out of their
	combos.  Like we've heard somewhere beore "SF2 is all relative", if I           can get out these combos, theyre not true combos for me.  The only              that I still think you are wrong, is that I used to think like you, I 
	just assumed that Z combos were as true as any.  Until a few months ago.        This is the difficulty with the net, I am unable to show you what I can
	do, and you can't let me play your "faster" Zangiefs.  If Eu-Ming or 
	somebody else perfects this 180, then I'll try my escapes again.  If            they fail, so be it, I was wrong.  Until then, I CAN escape Z combo's,
	even the short and forward sweep ones.  So nyah :)!

		Seth Killian


>Andrew Prock


Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: caine@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Dark Lord of the Sith)
Subject: Re: Sagat guide request
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:04:14 GMT


>Hello everyone. This is a real solid folder. Yah?
>Anyway, is there a Sagat strategy guide out there? Thanks in advance...
>(must have missed it, UGH!)

I don't think there is one.  Haven't thought about it much.  Tough character
to master.  Maybe all the Sagat players at UIUC could try to put one together.
A solid folder, and thick!  It would be chock full of info.  But, it still
would be lacking...I have never seen a Sagat master, not even here.  Guys?
Help me on this one.

Caine Schneider

"You are not a warrior, you are a beginner!" -Guess who
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: larsen@hellgate.utah.edu (Steve Larsen)
Subject: Re: What's wrong with Honda?
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 17:55:28 GMT

skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian) writes:
: west@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Bruce West) writes:
: 
: >In article <jabernet.724268614@husc8> jabernet@husc8.harvard.edu (J. Abernethy) writes:
: >>
: >>	I have read several articles concerning sf2 on the net, and most
: >>of them seem to be centered on Ken, Ryu, and Blanka.... But what's wrong
: >>with Honda??? I've been using Honda for quite a while now, and the only
: >>player who gives me trouble now is Guile. (that is, when he does his
: >>forward sweep, blade kick if I jump, sonic boom if I don't).  Other than
: >>that, the Pillsbury Doughboy is an awesome character.
: 
: >   What about the old fireball, rounhouse trip him as he jumps in.  Honda
: >CAN'T jump a jab fireball (so I've been told and seen).  So if he jumps in
: >he gets tripped.  How does he beat this?  Just curious...
: 
: >Ciao...
: 
: 	You cant.  Hehehehe...
: 
: 	Seth Killian
: 

  While it is true that Honda can't defend the sweep if he jumps, he can beat
this quite easily.  Just stand about3 inches away.  If you opponent throws
a fireball, roundhouse sweep him.  This is more effective if you sweep him
while he is preparing the fireball, because then you don't take any damage;
however, even if he already threw the fireball, you will trade damage in
your favor.

Steve
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: bodom@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Brian Odom)
Subject: Re: Ken's 4-Hit Touch of Death
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 08:21:17 GMT

In <1992Dec13.070901.20716@mercury.unt.edu> jbw@ponder.csci.unt.edu (WEST JASON BRUCE) writes:

>In article <Bz6J8z.Gop@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> bodom@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Brian Odom) writes:
>>In <1992Dec11.111149.8188@nmt.edu> drkhoe@nmt.edu (ONID) writes:
>>
>>
>>>Well, the torpedo is nice, you can try to play cheap, but any Ken/Ryu master will
>>>know to throw a DP as soon as he is getting up, and then you are fucked if you
>>>are torpedoing back and forth across the screen...
>>
>>>The torpedo may do as much damage as a fierce DP, but a fierce triple DP does much
>>>more... :)
>>
>>That's the problem.  Only a master Ken/Ryu can beat a cheap and mediocre Bison.

>   No way.  A "cheap" Blanka should have no problem with Bison - as I also
>think everyone should have no problem.  I know my DHalsim has no problem
>agaist Bison.

Ok, you misinterpreted me.  I meant only a master Ken/Ryu can beat a cheap
Bison just for Ken/Ryu.  Sure, a "cheap" Blanka and good Dhalsims will beat 
him.  I was trying to say that a mediocre Ken/Ryu will not beat a mediocre
Bison.  You need to be a master.

>   Hang out in the air, with a spin ready to counter any flames.  If I get
>caught on the ground with a flame I can fierce punch UNDER it (he flies
>right on by yelling "throw me, beat me, drill me in the corner").  Fierce
>punches will keep his scizzor kicks and flames in check, as will fireballs.
>All around pretty easy - or atleast easier than other characters (like Blanka).
>I still vote Dhalsim as best character, even though everyone around here is
>getting sick of me.  I need to learn an "ooh, ahh" character like Z - keeping
>the guy on the other side of the screen just isn't that fun anymore ;)

That's exactly how I play Dhalsim against Bison.  Fierce punch under cheese,
etc.  Overall pretty easy, except this one guy I know.  It's stressing, 
because Bison takes off much more energy than you do.  What kills me is the
scissor kicks.  It's tough to predict (and harder to react) to the scissor
kicks.  I know about fierce punching to put that in check, but you can fierce
punch all day (he'll step on your head, then back away).  What usually kills
me is Bison's throw priority.  I will have to go against what everyone says
about Bison's throw, because I think he has the greatest throwing range 
aside from the SPD.  If you try to tick him, he'll throw you before you start
your shorts or jabs or whatever.  








>BTW:  Bison can be beaten - and, even if not, is extremely boring.  I think
>because of this Bison will remain a realitively dormant character, ie. 
>"break glass in case of losing too much money".

>>-- 
>>Brian T Odom
>>
>>"We are all manufacturers -- some make good, others make trouble, and still
>>others make excuses."


-- 
Brian T Odom

"We are all manufacturers -- some make good, others make trouble, and still
others make excuses."
From: kchchang@remus.rutgers.edu (kai chang)
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: Re: Blanka's Electricity Trap?
Date: 18 Dec 92 06:53:32 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


	I myself have been able to throw Blanka out of electricity.  Not the jump/off the wall throw, but just talk up to an electricified Blanka and throw him.  Worked the first time and the second, failed on the 3rd, 4th and 5th..
	Can anyone do that perfectly here?  It's a move that just looks cool.  But does anyone know the timing for this?
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: el27166@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (This Space for Rent)
Subject: Sagat's fireball trap
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 20:57:40 GMT

inkblot@leland.Stanford.EDU (Thomas Calvin Cannon) writes:

>ON ANOTHER NOTE...
>------------------

>Now that the 'Ryu fireball' thread has died down, how's about discussing 
>Sagat's low 'tigerball' trap.  I tried it for the first time today, and
>it seems to be just as (if not more) effective than Ryu's trap.  It's basic
>execution is exactly like Ryu's (i.e. stand about 3/4 of the screen away
>from your opponent when he's in the corner and assault him with a barrage
>of low tigers.)  Any comments?

Yup, works just as well as Ryu's.  It's a little easier to jump straight
up over the low tigers than Ryu's fireballs, however.  That's the only
thing which makes it less effective.  Of course, since everyone here knows
that that is the way to escape the fireball trap, it makes it VERY much
less effective.  However, Sagat more than makes up for it in the damage
he does to you with the TU if you happen to guess WRONG!
>T. Cannon


-- 
Eu-Ming Lee (aka CyberGeek)                      el27166@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Guys with long sigs are just trying to compensate for something...
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: larsen@hellgate.utah.edu (Steve Larsen)
Subject: Re: Best Opening Moves
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 18:28:19 GMT

inkblot@leland.Stanford.EDU (Thomas Calvin Cannon) writes:
: In article <BzA3JA.Hqn@news.cso.uiuc.edu> skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian) writes:
: >	
: >
: >	Although I know my own personal choices, I was wondering what the
: >	favorite opening moves vs. any given character are in general.  I
: >	don't remember hearing any threads about this in recent memory and
: >	in some matches it is important enough to decide the momentum and
: >	in some cases, the whole round.  More specifically, what is a good
: >	opening move against Bison?  Or Ryu/Ken vs. Guile?  Just interested
: >	in opinions in general here, but please try to support them by saying
: >	"DP at the very beginning, because if so and so does this then you
: >	can just do that to counter..." or give some sort of reasoning.
: >	Any thoughts?
: >
: Well, I'll take the easy one first.
: 
: Guile vs. anyone under the sun
: 
: SONIC BOOM
: 
: After throwing the boom, the worst that can happen is that Guile will end up
: trading 1 tick of energy. (Ryu/Ken/whatever jumps over and gets one tick off
: the special move part f their combo)
: 
: If the opponent maks a silly mistake, Guile gets a nice head start.
: 
: The only counter for this where Guile loses (that i've seen) is Zan's SPD
: through the boom, and that was on Classic.
: 
: >		Seth Killian
: ---
: T. Cannon
: 

Dhalsim crouching strong punch will knock you out of the boom.

Ryu hurricane kick will hit you if started at the beginning of the round
  like your sonic boom.

Steve
From: holmes7000@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: Ryu's Triple
Date: 14 Dec 92 07:17:23 GMT
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

All the stuff about Ryu not being to do the triple is bull.  I played a Ryu
master tonight and he did the triple when I was starred to finish me off.  He
did it while standing.  I've done it with a jumping Fierce, fierceDP a few
times.  Granted I usually don't get the third because it usually knocks them
down on the first hit of the dragon punch, but it has happened.  
-Brando
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2