From: ag900@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David Burris)
Subject: Grizzly Survey Results.1
Reply-To: ag900@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David Burris)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 05:26:25 GMT


 I had to send the replies to my survey in 2 seperate files.For some
reason my mail server wouldn't take a 30K+ file.

I think all will agree that Grizzly owners are very satisfied with the
performance of their machines.Some had to do more tweaking than
others to get the machines working correctly.SOme had no problems at
all.Some had horror stories.Customer service generally helped with any
problems they were contacted about.These are my conclusions.Feel free to
draw your own.

1)
From: pngai@mv.us.adobe.com (Phil Ngai)
>1. Are you satisfied with your purchase?
I have a G1022 tablesaw. It works but sometimes I wish I had
bought something else. The fence especially bothers me every
time I use it because it sticks so much.
>2. Did the machine go together without any problems? 
The fence did not work at first. Had to bang on it.
It has a high point at the front which I plan to grind off.
The wings are not perfectly flat, there's an area which is
maybe 1/128 inch low.
>3. What problems(if any did you have)?
>4. Did customer service help?
Yes, they said to bang on the fence part that was sticking.
>5. How would you rate your Grizzly purchase?
Low cost, medium quality.
>6. How would you rate Grizzly customer support?
>(use 1-10 rating scale, 10 being the best)
pretty good, around 8.
>7. Would you buy from Grizzly again?
Probably not based on the wise-ass comments from their president
and the only moderate quality of my tablesaw.
>8. How would you rate your woodworking
skills?(Novice,Intermediate,
>Advanced,Professional)
Novice.

2)
From: finkej@rpi.edu (Jon E. Finke)
Just for background, I have the following from Grizzly (No model
#s here..)
2HP Dust collector
16" Bandsaw
Wet/Dry grinder
8x65 Jointer
15" Thickness Planer,
3hp Table Saw
3hp Shaper
12"disk/6"belt sander
(For comparison, I also have the following non grizzly toys....)
Craftsman RAS (With digital Display)
Makita 10" Miter Saw
Hitachi H12 Plunge Router
Milwalkee 1/3 sheet orbital sander
(and some other smaller things...)
>1. Are you satisfied with your purchase?
I have done 4 purchases to collect the above list (the last 5 items came
about a month ago.)  The degree of satisfaction depends on the tool in
question.  The Band saw (which I have had for 2 years now) is great!
Since I got that, the RAS serves mostly as a workbench.... (A damned
expensive one at that, and it doesn't even have a vise....).  The dust
collector works quitewell.  I want to remote control it eventually.  
The wet/dry grinder is pretty "cheap", then again, it matches the
picture in the catalog, and it does the job.  
I haven't done much with the last 5 (between hosting aconference,
normal work, cleaning cosmoline, and installing a new subfeed panel in
the shop, I haven't had much time to use them.  I did determine that the
planer and jointer can generate a huge volume of shavings in just about
no time at all..)
>2. Did the machine go together without any problems? 
Yes, I think everything assembled without incident.  I did buy a
portable shop crane (usually used for pulling engines) to unload the
truck and move these around the shop.
>3. What problems(if any did you have)?
None worth calling in to Grizzly.  (Again, I haven't tested
everything yet).
A minute with a file cleaned up some rough spots on some of the
knobs on the bandsaw.  
>4. Did customer service help?
Ordering via phone has allways seemed pleasent and easy.  The only
problem is that they shipped stuff a few days before I expected it. (The
Table Saw was back ordered, and expected in in another week.  They must
have turned it around the same day.  I do not fault Grizzly for this,
the saleperson was very helpful and open about the whole situation, the
shipping folks were simply more efficient than we gave them credit for.)
>5. How would you rate your Grizzly purchase?
Hard to set a rating on it.   I would pick Grizzly over Sears
without hesitation.  I would prefer Delta, but I can't afford it.  While
I buy Milwaulkee and Mikita for the little things, all my big shop gear
has been coming from Grizzly.
>6. How would you rate Grizzly customer support?
I never called them, however, a year after I bought the bandsaw,
they sent me a new owners manual for it.  They had rewritten it, and I
assume that they sent them to at least some of the past buyers.  I did
not request a new manual, and I have a *LOT* of respect for them for
sending this to me without me requesting it. (And they did not charge me
either.)
>7. Would you buy from Grizzly again?
Yes (assuming that there is anything left... :-)
(There are a few smaller things I expect to get from them)
>8. How would you rate your woodworking
skills?(Novice,Intermediate,
>Advanced,Professional)

Intermediate (but I spend money on the power tools and drive a 9
year old car.... Every year with that car is another couple big
tools.....) Hoping to be advanced some day.

3)
From: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com
>1. Are you satisfied with your purchase?
    Yes.
>2. Did the machine go together without any problems? 
    No
>3. What problems(if any did you have)?
    a. One table extension (this is a table saw) didn't exactly
fit. I had
       to elongate the mounting holes about 1/32" with a drill.
    b. The roller table extension I ordered did not fit that model saw.
>4. Did customer service help?
    Yes.
>5. How would you rate your Grizzly purchase?
    Well worth the money. Beats the Delta I had before hands down.
>6. How would you rate Grizzly customer support?
    Friendly, courteous. My only complaint is that I had to pay the
return    shipping (about $7.00).
    Give 'em a 9.
>7. Would you buy from Grizzly again?
    It's likely. Probably not a bandsaw, though.
>8  Professional, retired (Journeyman carpenter, UBCJA Local 225).

4)
From: nobody@Kodak.COM (Rocco Porcelli x69853))
1.  yes.
2.  yes.
3.  Bad Motor, Bad power cord.
4.  Customer service was excellent.
5.  Excellent
6.  Excellent 10
7.  Yes (I own 10 in. TS, 14 in. BS, and 6 in Jointer).
8.  Intermediate to advanced.

5)
From: tatem@tralfamadore.csc.ti.com (Joe Tatem)
>1. Are you satisfied with your purchase?
Yes, bought a table saw (contractors style) that works wonderfully.
>2. Did the machine go together without any problems? 
No problems at all. Didn't even have to align the blade, it was
already fine (1/128 difference between front and back).
>3. What problems(if any did you have)?
The only problem was aligning the splitter. Since it is the same
setup as Delta and others, this is not unique to Grizzly.
>4. Did customer service help?
Didn't need it.
>5. How would you rate your Grizzly purchase?
9
>6. How would you rate Grizzly customer support?
Don't know
>7. Would you buy from Grizzly again?
Absolutely.
>8. How would you rate your woodworking
skills

Intermediated

6)
From: kroth@Kodak.COM (David Kroth)
   I purchased the 6" jointer about 6 months ago.  I picked the
unit up myself at the Grizzly showroom/warehouse in Williamsport, PA.  I
live in Rochester, New York, which is about 3.5 hours from Williamsport.

I went down on a saturday.  The showroom was very busy.  I had to wait
15 min at the order desk there were 4 people in line in front of me.
The two guys immediately in front of me spent $1400 and $1800 each and
bought multiple pieces of equipment.  Both were from distant southern
states and were probably trying to save on shipping by buying all at
once.
Now that I think about it, they certainly could have been buying
for a group of people back home.  I saved $65 on shipping, but got stuck
for $21 sales tax (PA == 6%).
   If you can get there, I recommend giving them a visit before you buy.
They have all their stationary power tools on display.  There are
no salespeople on the floor so you can fiddle, dismantle, and crawl
under the machines to your heart's content.
   The warehouse looked like a warehouse; large crates stuffed away on
shelves and fork trucks with pallets running around everywhere. 
The warehouse workers dress like regular people.  They do NOT wear silly
Grizzly coveralls like the workers in some of the pictures in the
catalog.
   Once I paid for my order I was loaded up in another 15 min and
I was on my way.  It seemed like an efficient operation and moved right
along given the volume they they were turning.

   Now, on to your questions:
1. Are you satisfied with your purchase?
   Sure.
2. Did the machine go together without any problems? 
   No, I had to re-drill two holes in the stamped steel base of the
jointer.  However, I must note that the jointer knives were
sharp and properly adjusted right out of the box.  The tables were
co-planar to the best tolerance I could measure.
3. What problems(if any did you have)?
   See #2.
4. Did customer service help?
   Did not talk to them, other than to place my order.
5. How would you rate your Grizzly purchase?
   Handled as efficiently as any other tool store I have been to.
   (Phillips Bros. Supply, Buffalo, NY,  Jackson Saw, Rochester,
NY)
6. How would you rate Grizzly customer support?
   (use 1-10 rating scale, 10 being the best)
   8, based on my phone conversations and service at the order desk and
warehouse.
7. Would you buy from Grizzly again?
   Sure.  Of course, I would think about the purchase very
seriously.
   I usually weigh the cost/performance/quality issue very
carefully before I buy anyting.  With Grizzly, I also considered the
fact that most of their stuff is mail in Taiwan.  I feel more
comfortable buying Made in USA.  I guess the thing that bothers me most
about Grizzly is not that their stuff is make in Taiwan, but the fact
that they put so much emphasis on it.  It seems they do everyting but
come right out and say, "Our Taiwanese stuff is better the American
stuff..."  That really bothers me.
8. How would you rate your woodworking skills?
   Intermediate.

7)
From: rlw@ida.org (Richard Wexelblat)
: 1. Are you satisfied with your purchase?
Yes
: 2. Did the machine go together without any problems? 
Yes
: 3. What problems(if any did you have)?
None
: 4. Did customer service help?
N.A.
: 5. How would you rate your Grizzly purchase?
Acceptable
: 6. How would you rate Grizzly customer support?
N.A.
: (use 1-10 rating scale, 10 being the best)
: 7. Would you buy from Grizzly again?
Yes
: 8. How would you rate your woodworking skills?(Novice,Intermediate,
: Advanced,Professional)
Advanced (in my domain: woodturning; o.w. Intermediate)

8)
From: gurley@spectra.com (Jim Gurley)
>1. Are you satisfied with your purchase?
Yes.  I've bought DUST COLLECTOR, TABLE SAW, PNEUMATIC NAILER, misc
stuff
>2. Did the machine go together without any problems?
No problems whatsoever with assembly.  
>3. What problems(if any did you have)?
Table saw had loose setscrew on pulley that I overlooked.  Dust
collector is a little noisier that I expected under load.
>4. Did customer service help?
VERY IMPRESSED with customer service.  They CUSTOM-MACHINED a
mortising collet for another brand of drill press for $15 in two days.
>5. How would you rate your Grizzly purchase?
9!
>6. How would you rate Grizzly customer support?
10! 
>7. Would you buy from Grizzly again?
Absolutely.  I'm contemplating the 16 bandsaw, 1 1/2 horse shaper, 15"
planer AND edge sander.  I'd have already bought them except for my
wife's concern over my buying toys.
>8. How would you rate your woodworking
skills?(Novice,Intermediate,
>Advanced,Professional)
Probably intermediate.  Built mostly with softwood, non-furniture
grade cabinets, sheds, etc.  
9)
From: neef@iwtmr.att.com (Kerry Neef)
>1. Are you satisfied with your purchase?
        Yes (larger table saw - $895 variety).
>2. Did the machine go together without any problems? 
        Yes.
>3. What problems(if any did you have)?
        There where some burrs on the inside of the miter slot that
required filing.  The cosmoline was a pain in the ass to
       remove, but that doesn't have anything to do with Grizzly.
>4. Did customer service help?
        Didn't call them.
>5. How would you rate your Grizzly purchase?
        8
>6. How would you rate Grizzly customer support?
        NA
>7. Would you buy from Grizzly again?
        Yes.
>8. How would you rate your woodworking skills?
        Intermediate

10)
From: john@Kodak.COM
I bought their bottom-end tablesaw, model 1024?  It's like a Delta
Contarctor's saw and cost ~$400.  I have owned it for a year and a half.
1. Are you satisfied with your purchase?
Yes
2. Did the machine go together without any problems?
Yes
3. What problems(if any did you have)?
None
4. Did customer service help?
Not applicable.  I didn't use them.
5. How would you rate your Grizzly purchase?
A good buy.  It does what I expected it to.  I could have paid more for
fancier features, like a super-duper rip fence, but the supplied fence
does the job with a little extra care on my part.
6. How would you rate Grizzly customer support?
Don't know 
7. Would you buy from Grizzly again?
I'm considering the purchase of their 6" jointer sometime soon.
8. How would you rate your woodworking skills?(Novice,Intermediate,
Advanced,Professional)
Intermediate

11)
From: edla@i88.isc.com (Ed Lawrence)
Dave, I'm a Griz customer (18" Bandsaw).  Here's my reply to your
survey questions.  Feel free to post them and my name!
1.      Yes, I am generally satisfied with my purchase, but only
because I have had to "make it work."  After spending that kind of money
for a piece of equipment, one is more inclined to make it fit than sit
around waiting on others to set things right.
2.      No, my Bandsaw did not "go together without any problems." 
There were problems in the documentation that came with it
(notably the electrical wiring diagram and motor mount).  Also, the
stamped metal coverings are for s___, as they shake, rattle and roll
something it was not something that was beyond me, and after two
previous calls to Griz Customer Service, I was not about the waste any
additional time.
3.      I had problems (as stated) with the poor documentation. 
Somethings are not even covered in it, e.g. the three stage/speed
pulley that attaches to the motor.  No mention of the speeds is made in
the documentation.  I also had a problem settling that damn cheap-o
stand (but I'm not sure that was Griz's fault!).
4.      No, not particularly.  Thay were able to say, oh yes, it
does have three speeds and you get them by adjusting the belt on the
three stage pulley --- no kidding!
5.      I'd give them a 4 (and only because I'm in a good mood
right now!)
6.      I'd give them a 3 (for the same reason above!)
7.      You know, even with my poor personal experiences with them I
would have made other purchases (I'm seriously looking at a contractor's
model Table Saw), but after reading some of the responses the Griz
president has sent to other netters, I'm afraid to.  The way I see it is
that if I ever had a really serious problem, it would have to rely on
someone who appears to have little regard for a "complaining"customer.
I'm not sure I can afford that.
8.      Since I have sold many pieces of furniture from my home
shop, some might call me a professional, however, I'm old enough to have
seen and worked with several of the true masters of the craft so call me
an Intermediate (I still cannot do dovetails by hand!).
Dave, hope you receive a good response.  You know, this is the 2nd round
of pompous and arrogant ravings we've had from the Griz President this
year.
Maybe it is time for an all-out boycott.  Let's see just how much
of an influence we do have on this guy's attitude toward customer
service/handling?
And, that is coming from the all-time mizer when it comes to buying
wood- working tools and machinery.  Heck, I like Grizzly's prices!

12)
From: twl10@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Tom Littauer)
6" joiner, 12" planer
>1. Are you satisfied with your purchase?
Overall, yes.
>2. Did the machine go together without any problems? 
Yes.
>3. What problems(if any did you have)?
Wings of the planer aren't coplanar with the bed. Planer shipped
with wrong manual.
>4. Did customer service help?
They immediately shipped a new manual, but tried to convince me
that the wings were correct. I didn't believe it, but since I planned to
build a table for the planer anyway I didn't press it.
>5. How would you rate your Grizzly purchase?
Good price/performer.
>6. How would you rate Grizzly customer support?
5-7 -- they want to help and try hard, but don't always know what
they don't know.
>7. Would you buy from Grizzly again?
Yes, although the more precision required the more nervous I'd be.
This is, however, colored by Gary Preckshot's experience with the
bandsaw (my next likely purchase).
>8. How would you rate your woodworking
skills?(Novice,Intermediate,

Intermediate

13)
From: koenig@galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu (George Koenig)
I have a Grizzley 10" table saw which I am quite satisfied with the
price vs quality issue.  The original insert casting was too warped to
use and was replaced without any problems by Grizzley.  After about 2
years I replaced the drive belt which was getting jumpy.
I would consider purchasing other equipment from them if cost were an
important consideration and I would realize going in that the trade off
is some degree of manufacturing quality that should not affect the
quality of work being done with the machine.
intermediate?

14)
From: jmr@rtp.semi.harris.com (Mike Reid x636)
I have the 6" jointer.
>1. Are you satisfied with your purchase?
Yes. Best I good find for the money. Better quality than
other Taiwanese imports. I had a Woodtech Taiwan jointer that
the casting cracked on and I returned it. Grizzly casting was
much better.
>2. Did the machine go together without any problems? 
No.
>3. What problems(if any did you have)?
Slight vibration that I'm still tuning out, new belt, etc. Much
less vibartion than the Woodtech jointer though.
>4. Did customer service help?
n/a
>5. How would you rate your Grizzly purchase?
7
>6. How would you rate Grizzly customer support?
n/a
>7. Would you buy from Grizzly again?
Also bought a bench vise that I'm pleased with. Yes, I'd buy
from them again.
>8. How would you rate your woodworking
skills?(Novice,Intermediate,
>Advanced,Professional)
Intermediate


-- 
ag900@cleveland.freenet.edu