HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: One rec.music.synth reader's temper tantrum
Date: 9 Nov 1992 22:32:00 GMT
Organization: AS&M Inc
	<1992Nov9.092054.11139@jato.jpl.nasa.gov>
Reply-To: J Lee Jaap <J.L.Jaap@larc.nasa.gov>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cmb00.larc.nasa.gov
In-reply-to: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov's message of Mon, 9 Nov 1992 09:20:54 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.092054.11139@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes) writes:

   twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
   >I still need to know why on earth it should make a difference to
   >someone like this *what* the name of the group is.

   As someone else has posted, "CFV" can mean "Criminal Forgery Violaters"
   for all a newbie understands. 

"I don't know what this means, so I'll ignore it.  What I don't know
can't hurt me.  Besides, with Dave as my friend, I'll get a second
chance....."

   > If you people didn't keep saying 'these are the
   > rules and you gotta obey the rules' and instead agreed that there is a problem
   > in the way the announcement was made, I think that Dave (and everybody else
   > who is concerned) would tone down a bit. 

   For the record, I agree with this sentiment. Frankly, I'd suspect that you were
   all closet congress critters with the inflexible way you were handling
   this.

The guidelines maintain some sense of order in an anarchy where it's
difficult to find order.  Attempt to change the Guidelines, if you are
convinced they're faulty.  USENET has reformed several times, learning
from previous faults.  But don't challenge a perfectly legal vote just
because you're on the losing side.
--
J Lee Jaap <J.L.Jaap@LaRC.NASA.Gov> +1 804/864-2148
    employed by, not speaking for, AS&M Inc, at
         NASA LaRC, Hampton VA 23681-0001
From: a3@rivm.nl (Adri Verhoef)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: What are the requirements for a rmgroup?
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:59:33 GMT
Organization: Rijksinstituut voor Volksgezondheid en Milieuhygiene,Bilthoven,NL

After voting, I know that the requirements for sending out a 'newgroup' for
the comp, news, sci, rec, misc, soc, and talk hirerarchies is to have 100 more
YES- than NO-votes, and 2/3 of the votes must be *for* the newgroup proposal.

Is there a requirement for 'rmgroup' proposals?
Or is this handled differently each time the subject comes up?

E.g. let's say that all of these requirements must be met:
 A) No significant traffic in the newsgroup;
 B) More people agree on rmgrouping than on keeping the newsgroup;
 C) The number of people agreeing on rmgrouping must be > 50;
 D) The number of people agreeing on rmgrouping is more than 50 than that
 of the number of people agreeing on keeping the newsgroup;
 E) The number of people agreeing on keeping the newsgroup must be < 10.

So, is there a default requirement for 'rmgroup' proposals?

Regards, Adri
-- 
* Slade Mailing List:  slade-request@rivm.nl                | Did you know
* European top 20               : a3@rivm.nl                | that applauding
* Nederlandse songfragmentenquiz: a3@rivm.nl (Adri Verhoef) | causes
* Dutch Artists Lyrics Quiz     : a3@rivm.nl                | blindness?
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: doug@cc.ysu.edu (Doug Sewell)
Subject: What to do about world-post NNTP servers ?
Organization: Bush in 92 ? NOT!
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 16:50:50 GMT

I recently received several alt-group newgroup requests from (yet another)
world-postable NNTP server.

I dropped a note to news@that.site including the post in question (we
no longer automatically create newsgroups - thanks, Chip!).  Perhaps it
is their policy, but in most cases I suspect they don't know better or
have their access-file misconfigured (they're also allowing world-read
of a commercial service).  They don't even generate the Nntp-Posting-Host:
header.

Is there anything else that can/should be done ?  Somehow, the idea of
posting server-names so that they get swamped with readers and forged
postings strikes me as the wrong answer...
--
Doug Sewell, Tech Support, Computer Center, Youngstown State University
doug@cc.ysu.edu	   doug@ysub.bitnet	<internet>!cc.ysu.edu!doug

cat core | uuencode bunny.dropping | mail jp@tygra.michigan.com
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,news.admin,news.sysadmin
From: emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire)
Subject: Re: a.b.p.e distribution, pay membership (Was: RE: Child Pornography)
Organization: Intellection, Inc.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:10:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.074320.5826@ais.com> bruce@ais.com (Bruce C. Wright) writes:

   As for the original topic, given the current laws in the US it's
   probably only a matter of time until one site or another on the
   alt.net gets into some trouble over copyrighted or `pornographic'
   material, especially if the sysadmin doesn't make any effort at all
   to remove such questionable material.  (Which doesn't necessarily
   mean a major effort to screen the material, just keeping an eye out
   and removing articles that claim to be from copyrighted sources or
   that are identified as questionable -- say in discussions such as
   this one -- would probably be sufficient to prevent prosecution.
   Ignoring the potential for problems would likely _not_ be sufficient).

Telephone companies are not required to listen in on conversations and
disconnecting circuits which are carrying illegal ones.  In fact they
are prohibited from monitoring conversations, with few exceptions.
Why should that be any different for me?  I am perfectly willing to
respond to a complaint from any of my news users about illegal
material, just like a phone company, but I should not have to screen
all my incoming news to avoid prosecution.
-- 
Ed McGuire                   1603 LBJ Freeway, Suite 780
Systems Administrator/       Dallas, Texas 75234
 Member of Technical Staff   214/620-2100, FAX 214/484-8110
Intellection, Inc.           <ed@intellection.com>
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: One rec.music.synth reader's temper tantrum
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 09:20:54 GMT

twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>I still need to know why on earth it should make a difference to
>someone like this *what* the name of the group is.

As someone else has posted, "CFV" can mean "Criminal Forgery Violaters"
for all a newbie understands. 

> If you people didn't keep saying 'these are the
> rules and you gotta obey the rules' and instead agreed that there is a problem
> in the way the announcement was made, I think that Dave (and everybody else
> who is concerned) would tone down a bit. 

For the record, I agree with this sentiment. Frankly, I'd suspect that you were
all closet congress critters with the inflexible way you were handling
this.

For the record, I do NOT agree with the DoD being notified of this and 
would appreciate it if whomever would not take my fight so seriously.
It's only USENET and I personally get lots of practice arguing with people
more stubborn than most fundamentalists. I'd hate it if you took that 
away. <grin>
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

   The foolish reject what they see, not what they think;
	     The wise reject what they think, not what they see...
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,alt.fan.john-palmer,alt.flame,alt.bbs.ads
From: rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: John Palmer admits that he sold censored newsfeeds!
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 01:53:34 GMT

chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
>It is a historic occasion!  JP now _admits_ that he sold censored
>newsfeeds!  Today is a red letter day.

He's done it before.  Just wait till tomorrow and he'll deny it ever
happened again.  He can say 48 contradictory things before breakfast.
-- 
Alaska - Land of 2 seasons: Winter is coming, Winter is here.
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: anthony@yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au (Anthony Baxter)
Subject: Re: One rec.music.synth reader's temper tantrum
Organization: Australian Artificial Intelligence Institute
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:20:40 GMT

dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes) writes:

>>I will, however, post this message to news.admin.policy, news.groups, and
>>rec.synth, jsut to show how low some folks will stoop to overturn a
>>legitimately arrived at result.

>Hey...the jury's still out on legitimate.

What jury? The vote was held. The vote passed. Where in the usenet
guidelines for new group creation (and although you seem to think these dont
mean anything, they _are_ important for stopping everything turning into
another alt) does it mention juries? And where does it talk about one person
who is unhappy with the vote being able to overturn it?

Dave, you havent yet come up with a valid reason for invalidating the
vote. If people dont care enough to vote, you cannot force them to, and by
not voting, they forfeit their say in the result.

> [from Dave's .sig]
>                If you want to get rid of somebody, 
>            just tell them something for their own good.
Give up. You are looking more and more foolish.

Anthony
-- 
 anthony baxter                 australian artificial intelligence institute
email : anthony@aaii.oz.au         1 grattan st, carlton, australia 3053
    /\/\||                                 phone : +613 663 7922
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle)
Subject: Re: Censoring innapropriate postiongs?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 19:15:50 GMT

       It's unclear if censorship by a sysop makes the sysop's liability
situation better or worse.  The main case so far (Cubby vs CompuServ)
suggests that it may be safer not to censor and just be a transmission
medium, rather than exercise editorial power and become a "publisher"
responsible for the material.  So if you start censoring, maybe you'd better not
miss any.  At least get legal advice before you start censoring; you may
be increasing your liability.

       If you find something that looks like "child pornography" under
current U.S. law, you can report it to the FBI and let them go after the
original source.

       It may be worth revisiting this issue on the legislative and
policy front after January 20.  

					John Nagle
From: cawilco@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Chris A. Wilcox)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: What group should news.admin be aliased to?
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:55:07 GMT
Organization: The Great Beyond


I know that news.admin was voted out in favor of news.admin.policy,
news.admin.technical, and news.admin.misc. What I would like to
do is alias news.admin to one of these three groups, and get rid
of news.admin. Is news.admin.misc the correct group to alias to?
Is this the correct solution at all?
-- 
Chris Wilcox                |     Getting Rid of a Blind Date -- Tip #16
Dept. of Defense            | Sacrifice french fries to the great deity Pomme
cawilco@afterlife.ncsc.mil  |          (as seen on rec.humor.funny)
  The views represented here probably aren't held by the DoD. Get over it.
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,news.groups,rec.music.synth
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: One rec.music.synth reader's temper tantrum
Followup-To: news.admin.policy
Organization: Homosexual Fascist Lobby, Rampant Paranoia Division
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:38:57 GMT

In article <7752@lib.tmc.edu> jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:

>This is my response to an email message I received. (name removed to protect
>the guilty). I think it goes to show how childish at least one of the r.m.s
>types is, and how far he will go to torpedo a legitimate voting result just
>because he doesn't like it. 
>----------8<--------------cut here------------------>8-------------
>> In the process of reviewing my current report on fraud, waste and abuses in the
>> DOD funding systems, I have decided to include a section on DOD involvement
>> woith the internet.  I have been collecting all the recent posts from r.m.s.
>> and I intend to use them as evidence that DOD funding of the system is not in
>> its own best interest.

God, this sounds familiar.  From mail I received this afternoon:

 You people on UNIX machines wit usenet access and
 newsreaders don't realize how hard participating in group is.  When I get into
 work in the morning and log on I generally see about 35-70 e-mail messages
 waiting for me from r.m.s.  I open each one and scan the header page (which
 is actually about 28 lines in my case because of all the gateways the email
 goes through before it gets to me).

This character apparently isn't aware of the volume of mailing lists I
subscribed to in my youth.

 If the subject line doesn't interest me
 (or in the case of a CFV mentioning rec.music.makers, mean anything to me)
 I delete it.

I still need to know why on earth it should make a difference to
someone like this *what* the name of the group is.

 If you people didn't keep saying 'these are the
 rules and you gotta obey the rules' and instead agreed that there is a problem
 in the way the announcement was made, I think that Dave (and everybody else
 who is concerned) would tone down a bit.  As it is, I am officially voicing
 a complaint to the fraud, waste, and abuse people at DOD, concerning the
 uses of the internet, and the wasrte in funding that it may really be.

Hmm.  Wonder why that sounds familiar ...

Is there something about wpafb.af.mil that causes people to go, er,
ballistic?  I've suddenly begun receiving these unbelievably venemous
(and, in some cases, unreplyable) messages from that domain.  Maybe it
has something to do with their Commander-In-Chief being so suddenly
removed from office ...

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu / I use antlers in all of my decorating.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Xref: sparky news.admin:8288 news.sysadmin:1363 news.groups:20264 alt.config:6656
From: dagibbs@quantum.on.ca (David Gibbs)
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.sysadmin,news.groups,alt.config
Subject: Re: "general" is a bad name for a newsgroup
Date: 5 Nov 92 06:15:12 GMT
Organization: Quantum Software Systems

In article <1992Nov4.071034.5756@samba.oit.unc.edu> Nigel.Allen@launchpad.unc.edu (Nigel Allen) writes:
>This way, both your users and the rest of the net will benefit. They won't
>wonder about (or reply or follow up to) posts from other sites in "general",
>and if they should cross-post an article to your local <site name>.general
>and a more widely-distributed one, it won't show up in "general" at othe
>sites.
>

Of course, this doesn't always work since you sometime get duplicated
<site name>.general postings.  Specifically I know that uw.general
exists at both University of Waterloo (Waterloo Ontario) and 
University of Washington (in Seattle WA), and that often messages
ended up in both.  (Those this might have been secondarily caused
by uw.general (Waterloo) being carried at Microsoft because of
all the Waterloo co-op students and grads.)

I have also seen this duplication in one or two other cases, but
I can't remember the names right now.

-David Gibbs
(dagibbs@quantum.qnx.com)
Xref: sparky news.admin:8466 rec.music.synth:18229 rec.music.makers.synth:26 news.groups:21135
From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Subject: Re: New sendsys bomb 
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 09:15:26 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

rick@rgb.com (Rick Davis) writes:

>We received a simalar message from the same individual.  I have sent
>mail to him requesting that he cease and desist.

Yeah, this is the idiot who sent me mail accusing me of breaking 
into his system by virtue of his getting the famous "remain calm" message
with my name on it in response to the sendsys.  I was impressed at his 
complete ignorance of how a news system operates.  I never thought he would 
go public with his stupidity.  The most amazing part is that he'd
actually think someone would want is little bitty sys file.  Ha!

Rick, Just in case you didn't get my mail, here's what I sent you:

---------------------------------------------------
From jgd Fri Nov  6 17:34:20 1992
Subject: Re: Sendsys: Why?
To: rgbsys!rick (Rick Davis)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 17:34:20 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

>I sent you my piss-test list entry in good faith there; the list is
>a fine use of net resources.  Now it seems you are pilfering sys files
>on the net.  I have changed my sys file and told my contacts to do
>the same.  Now get the hell out of my system!

Pardon my french, but you are really a dumb f*ck.  On two accounts.
First, the sendsys facility is designed PRECISELY to make your sys
file publicly available.  If you'd ever read any of the news.admin
groups, or even the man pages for your news software, you'd know that 
AND you'd know how to set up your system NOT to respond to sendsys requests.  

Secondly, that sendsys was a forgery designed to try and overflow my system 
with mail from the thousands of systems that still respond to sendsys 
commands.  This is a common prank pulled by the net.children against someone 
who says something they don't like.  In anticipation of you not knowing
what a sendsys control message is, I've included a copy of the forgery
at the end of this message.  Observe carefully the NNTP-Posting-Host:
field.  That should give even you a clue as to where the message 
actually came from.

Frankly, my dear, I couldn't give a f*ck less what is in your sys file.  It,
along with several thousand others went directly to the bitbucket without
my ever having looked at it.  You really ought to learn a few things
about running a news system before opening your mouth.  Try and buy a 
clue if you can.

John
-------------------------------- end mail ------------------------------------
-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine (TM) |
Marietta, Ga                         |Interested in high tech and computers? 
jgd@dixie.com                        |Write me about PE Magazine
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.
From: housun!daVinci!thornton@texsun.UUCP (Chuck Thornton)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Request for list of Newsgroups for E-Mail user
Date: 6 Nov 1992 19:50:04 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: im4u.cs.utexas.edu

Please excuse me if this is the improper place to send this
request. I am a E-Mail only site and have tried in vain to
find a way to get a list of Subscribeable newsgroups. Any help
you can offer would be appreciated.

My address is: daVinci!thornton@housun.central.sun.com


		Thank You.

Xref: sparky news.admin:8328 news.groups:20519 rec.music.synth:17874
From: ksdavis@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Karleenus Schwartz Davis)
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.groups,rec.music.synth
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Date: 7 Nov 92 02:10:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.BxBq1w.7Cu
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1992Nov6.235752.25016@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov writes:
>jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
>>About the only thing that can be done about this netwide is to honor the
>>results of the vote, as a large number of admins will be doing exactly that.
>
>And a smaller number won't.

And those that don't are responsible for splitting the group.  If
that's what they want, that's what they get.  If they want the group
to stay together they will all comply with the results of the vote, at
the same time, and the changeover will go smoothly. 

-sz 
Xref: sparky news.admin:8401 rec.music.synth:18058
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: news.admin,rec.music.synth
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Date: 9 Nov 1992 15:29:02 GMT
Followup-To: news.admin
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1992Nov9.090122.10836@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov writes:
>jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
>>...and that smaller number will be directly responsible for fragmenting the
>>propagation of the group.
>Well, if you folks won't budge an inch then neither will I. Nyahh. 

We're not the ones demanding that a system that works be trashed simply
because we don't like the result.

>Your opinion. The central argument I've had...none of you have touched. 
>I'll say it again: "what about the users of rec.music.synth? Don't you care
>about them?"

I feel no obligation to care about them one tiny bit more than they
demonstrate that they care about themselves. If they were to have spoken up
and said NO!, then I'd quite a ways to respect that. They had an extended
opportunity to do so, and they didn't. They don't care, so I don't see why I
should either.

>I've been dancing with your notions of guidelines as hard as I can to
>get it through your bueraucratic heads that there is an inequity here.
>I thought I was dealing with rational folk who might have a chance of 
>perhaps considering that maybe there was an inequity in how it was handled.

The process is fair and equitable. They had all the opportunity to participate
that anyone else had. They chose not to, for whatever reason. I respect their
choice. They should respect ours.

>Now I'm starting to learn that I appear to be dealing with people who's 
>only concern is their stubborn control over the newsgroup space and the
>holy Guidelines. Are you also going to admit that there is a class system
>in USENET?

If there is a class system in Usenet, it's the least restrictive one I've ever
seen; all it takes to change classes is a willingness to participate. There
are NO artificial barriers preventing anyone on Usenet from having their voice
heard. Their franchise, and their voice, is only as far away as their F key.

>Blatantly false. I participated and I'm not being listened to. If you really
>listened to what I was saying, then you'd deal with my central issue (see
>above). You haven't as of yet. 

I've dealt with your central issue; you've simply ignored it.

I maintain that I care for the users of rec.music.synth more than you do: I'm
trying to hold it together, and you're trying to fragment it. Which will hurt
the users more?
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
     We survived Jimmy Carter; we'll (probably) survive Bill Clinton.
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.future,news.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: mdw@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Matt Welsh)
Subject: NREN information wanted
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 18:45:29 GMT

Where can I get information on the NREN project (on-line or otherwise)? Any
pointers to documents, papers, books, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
mdw

-- 
Matt Welsh    mdw@tc.cornell.edu        +1 607 253 2737
Systems Programmer, Cornell Theory Center
  "She's like jelly roll, like sculpture!"
Xref: sparky news.admin:8393 news.groups:20782 rec.music.synth:18037