HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aoki@risk.stanford.edu (ikuro aoki)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Re: EISA/VL-Bus combination MBs #2
Date: 19 Dec 92 00:23:31
Organization: Stanford University, Stanford, CA, USA.
	<BzHvHK.Fxz@utdallas.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: risk.stanford.edu
In-reply-to: goyal@utdallas.edu's message of Sat, 19 Dec 1992 07:00:56 GMT

Hello all,

  >>What's the difference between unbuffered and buffered?

How can I describe it? The bufferd design has buffering devices
between CPU buses and VL-devices.(to boost bus driving capacity)

  >>Does one offer better performance, or are they the same, and a
  >>buffered design simply lets you add one more device to a 33mhz 
  >>system?

I don't know it. probably depending on an implimentation.
Does any unix wizards can explain the defference?

In my opinion, a VL-bus gives better performance for graphic devices,
however is not necessary for SCSI HDD adapters and/or Ethernet cards.
Then, I'm OK if I have one VL-bus slot.
--
Ikuro
aoki@risk.Stanford.EDU
From: michael@Canada.lsil.com (Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Re: chipset:UMC,OPTi,C&T what are they?
Date: 18 Dec 92 20:12:18 GMT
Reply-To: michael@Canada.lsil.com
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation of Canada, Inc.

In article 90827@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au, ecn644e@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au () writes:
>Dear Netters,
>
>What are the differeces between motherboards built according to different kinds
>of "chipsets". I heard about names like UMC, OPTi, C&T and of course Intel.
>Also people comment about have a 1 or 3 chips configuration. 
>
>Is is one kind of chipset better than the other for some reasons? Sorry if this
>is a FAQ. Please enlighten me in this matter.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Simpson.


A "chipset" is a group of support chips that allow one to easily have things such
as DMA, Interrupt controllers, DRAM, timers, ISA/EISA/MCA/PCI bus control, and
other things in just a few chips instead of the zillions of discrete chips (and 
PALs and stuff) that were on the original IBM-PC machine.

The Headland (i.e. LSI-Logic) "Shasta" 486 chip-set has three components:

	- A Local to ISA bus controller
	- A MCU (Memory Control Unit)
	- A cache controller

Included in these things are refresh controller, write-buffers, write-gatherers,
DRAM control algorithms, EMS re-mapping hardware, DOS compatability hole
support, and piles of other details.

The Headland Shasta chipset without cache is essentially as good as all of the
other chipsets *WITH* cache.  The secret of success here is with our write-buffers
and write-gatherers; other chipsets suck-rocks on writes.  Throw in a level-two
cache and things continue to get faster.

Most chip-sets are all the same; i.e. benchmarks will run the same on all of them.
Some companies (e.g. Headland) do some real engineering with these things and
put together a chipset that will actually show speed increases in real applications.
This is especially true if you're running a 486DX2 with a Unix environment; the
Shasta chip-set is significantly faster in this environment than OPTI, VTI, or
other chipsets.

The number of chips in the set is basically related to cost, and not really
performance.  Obviously, as more pins are available (as there will be on 3 chips
rather than two or one), there are more possible things that can be done in
the chipset.  So, the number of chips is loosely related to features and
performance, but only in an indirect way.


     Michael Smith - Chipset Design Engineer

Phone: (416) 620-7400         michael@canada.lsil.com
Fax:   (416) 694-5005

    _/     _/_/   _/_/_/   _/                   _/
   _/    _/        _/     _/ 
  _/      _/_/    _/     _/     _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/
 _/         _/   _/     _/     _/  _/ _/  _/ _/ _/
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/   _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/
                                        _/   LSI Logic Corp. of Canada, Inc.
                                   _/_/_/   Suite 1110, 401 The West Mall
                                           Etobicoke, Ontario
                                          M9C 5J5
From: al885@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gerard Pinzone)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: ATI Ultra for sale!
Date: 13 Dec 1992 22:42:46 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: al885@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gerard Pinzone)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I am selling my brand new ATI Ultra card!  It has a three button bus mouse
that plus into the video  card!  Free's up your serial ports!

Also, it's probably the fastest card around!  I'm selling it for $249 with
postage paid to anywhere in the USA.  I am desperate for the money!

thanks, please reply via e-mail...


-- 
   _______   ________   ________   "Small nose, loose girls, no nipples, (.|.)
  /   ___/  /  _____/  /  __   /   Iczer curls!"  -=-  Gerard Pinzone     ).(
 /   ___/  /  /____   /  __   /           gpinzone@tasha.poly.edu        ( v )
/______/  /_______/  /__/ /__/       Join the ECA Wehrmacht! Kill CM!     \|/
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
From: J056600@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: What's the deal? My chip says "SX-25"; Norton says "SX-33"
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 22:18:15 GMT

In <1gt3dfINNn27@savoy.cc.williams.edu>:

>Thanks to all the people who responded, to summarize for the others:
>It seems that I have been ripped off because the vendor pushed the
>chip beyond its rating, that is, 8 Mhz faster than it was tested for.
>There is a wide range of opinions on whether or not I should be
>worried about this.  Some people asserted that it would kill my chip
>soon while others claimed that Intel makes ALL its chips for 33Mhz,
>and only tests the ones at 33Mhz if it plans to sell them at 33Mhz.
>The rest are tested at lower clock rates. This would imply that if the
>chip works at 33Mhz, then it is just as good as 33Mhz.
>However, I don't appreciate being lied to and taken advantage of.
>I intend to pursue this matter with MOTHERBOARD WAREHOUSE, the slimy
>outfit that pulled this crap on me.
>Dont give them any business.

Go get 'em.

Let us know how it turns out.


Tim Irvin
*****************************************************************************
Microsoft Windows--from the folks who brought you EDLIN.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: Where the mac really wins
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:01:36 GMT

In article <ByKECw.Bp4@unix.amherst.edu> hjwulfso@unix.amherst.edu (Harris Wulfson) writes:

>Come on, people. We know what's really involved here: Windows and OS/2
>look like crap, and System 7 is pretty and cute. I would much rather 
>spend my hours looking at a mac desktop, than an IBM anything. Besides, 
>any GUI that forces me to double click to close a window does not deserve my
>attention. Of course, neither has anything on NeXTstep!

Oh come on. Windows 3.1 on SVGA is very nice. A Mac at the standard 
640x480 looks about like Windows at 640x480. Just plain fuzzy, grainy 
and cluttered.





-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
From: v120q4jf@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Vax Crazie (ROB B.))
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Black/White Scanners: What's a good mail order store?
Date: 12 Dec 92 04:01:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Hi there. I want to but a black/white hand scanner and I was wondering if you
know of any mail order places that I could contact. So far, the lowset price
I found was at PC Connections.  They wanted $95 for a Mustek 105... 

Has anyone had one of those cheap Mustek's ????   Thankx for the help.



________________________________________________________________________________
........>>Rob                                 v120q4jf@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu 
________________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
From: jimmink@sif.research.ptt.nl (Jimmink R.)
Subject: BOCA 1Mb Hicolor SVGA drivers for Win 3.1?
Organization: PTT Research
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 12:34:21 GMT

Hi, I bought a BOCA 1Mb HICOLOR SVGA card which I'd like to use with
 Windows 3.1. They supply 2 diskettes with drivers, but while both labels
say version 1.1, one disk contains version 1.1 of some drivers and the other
disk contains verdion 1.0 of the Windows drivers. The install program can
install the drivers on disk 1, but refuses to install the v1.0 windows
drivers on disk 2...

My question is: can anyone help me getting those windows drivers ?

--Ronald.

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=|-------------------------------|
| Ronald A. Jimmink                  | PTT Research Tele-Informatics | 
| email: R.A.Jimmink@research.ptt.nl | Leidschendam, The Netherlands | 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=|-------------------------------|
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
From: mts@wam.umd.edu ()
Subject: Re: ET4000/32 is this chip any good?
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 06:13:05 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.071124.21189@wam.umd.edu> mts@wam.umd.edu () writes:
>    I was just reading the Dec issue of PC World, and it had listings of the
>best monitors, video cards, printers, etc.  Anyway, there were two manufacturers: Pixel Engineering, and Chem that offered cards with 4Megs Dram and an ET4000/
>32 chip.  The price for both of these was $395 list, so I assume that they may
>be the same card.  They both boast 24 Bit color in resolutions up to 800x600 andone of them claims 65,000 colors at 1280x1024 while the other supports 256 colors at that resolution.  This is at 70Hz also, thought most monitors support 60 atthat resolution.  Anyway, my question is, is this a good deal?  With the ATI
>Ultra Plus going for ~$300 with 2Megs, these cards sound too good to be true.
>They both provide drivers for at least Windows I don't know about OS/2.  Is the
>ET4000 much of an accelerator or would it be better to get the Ultra Plus with
>less colors, but greater speed?
>
>	Also, they listed the TVM Media Scan 5A+LR as a best buy along with 
>the Mag MX15.   They said that the display on the TVM was the best by far,
>beating the Mag and NEC monitors.  Has anyone heard of this monitor?
>
>
>Dave.
>.
>
    Well, I guess I'll reply to my own message since no one else seems to have.
I contacted both manufactures of the graphics cards.  Pixel Engineering does
not sell to the end user, and I did not think to ask for a vendor name until I
was off the phone.  I don't know if they sell the cards themselves to vendors to sell or if they are sold only in systems.  The other manufacturer, Chem, does
sell to the end user, but unfortunately, the supplier of one of their chips is
unable to provide, so it will be another 2 months until they will begin mass
production.  They did take my name, and said that they would be sure to call
when production begins.  The man did seem sincere about this.  Anyway, it seems
that the cards are to good to be true.  At least for now.


Dave.
.
From: v912089@gerhardt.si.hhs.nl (Wieringa)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Non-active clock
Keywords: clock
Date: 15 Dec 92 08:15:48 GMT
Distribution: eunet
Organization: Sector Informatica, Haagse Hogeschool, The Hague, The Netherlands
Originator: v912089@gerhardt

I've got some problems with my internal clock: when I shut down, and start up
a little while later, the computer tells me, that the current time is the
time I shut down. So, when I turn my computer off, the computer-clock stores
the current time, and becomes inactive, until I turn the system on again.

The manual said such problems could happen, if the battery was low, and it had
to be charged again by leaving the system on for at least 12 hrs. I left it
on for about 4 days, but still it didn't work.

Anybody who can tell me what to do?
Please E-mail. Thanks in advance, Harm.
-- 
Harm J. Wieringa          | Freddie lives on! | Don't loose your head, my son;  
E-mail: v912089@si.hhs.nl |                   | it may cost you your life!
From: Jim_Johnson@abcd.Houghton.MI.US (Jim Johnson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Re: VLB requires wait-states???
Distribution: world
Date: 20 Dec 92 19:15:51 EST
Organization: Amiga BitSwap Central Dispatch

In a message dated Sun 20 Dec 92 16:15, Keiths@cae.wisc.edu (keith Scidmore
wrote:
 KS> [edited] What
 KS> it sounds like he was saying is that all VESA machines have memory
 KS> wait states.  This would mean that to get the fast VESA bus you have
 KS> to degrade the performance of your memory system where reads usually
 KS> dominate over writes by about 3 to 1!  Is this true?

Local bus machines have several different places in the BIOS setup where
wait states are set; i.e. memory, video, IDE interface. The number of wait
states are set separately for each subsystem based on the relative
performance of that subsystem to the system clock speed.  Memory may have
none due to a good cache design, video one or some, and the IDE interface
lots due to hard drive access time and data transfer rates.



-- Via DLG Pro v0.995

jim_johnson@abcd.houghton.mi.us
from Calumet, Michigan, USA -the world's former copper mining capital, 
located on Lake Superior and home to America's newest National Park,
** The Keweenaw National Historic Park **
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
From: comptec91025@camins.camosun.bc.ca (Ian Hobday)
Subject: Re: VESA  --> Defined (?) <--
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 08:31:10 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.021145.16205@julian.uwo.ca>,
wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith) writes: 

> It seems like the cutting edge of "standards" takes about 2 or 3 years
> to become common place.  I've seen a big increase in the use of the
> term VESA within the last few months, and I thought I might quote from
> the User's Guide for my Sigma Legend VGA user's guide (Sept. 1990)...
> 
> "Because the Sigma Legend supports the VESA (Video Engineering Standards
> Association) standard for BIOS interface in extended modes, drivers for
> the VESA standard are also supported."
> 
> Now unless the VESA standard includes elements of bus construction and
> interface, it seems that VESA and "local bus video" are two different and
> unrelated things.  A VESA compatible video card is one thing, while a
> local bus video card is another.  I can't say that having an ISA bus
> video card with VESA has been any great thing, especially with a standard
> ET4000 chipset.  But maybe VESA becomes more important with the more 
> "exotic" co-processed chipsets.

VESA, like ANSI and the CCITT, is a standards association.  If memory serves, 
they developed the VGA standard - I think this is what is being refered to in 
your manual.  VESA also declared the standard that seems to be being accepted
for local bus cards now. 

Ian.
-- 

--------------------------Computing Technology-------------------------------
Ian Hobday                                       Camosun College
COMPTEC91025@camins.Camosun.BC.CA                Victoria, BC  Canada
Xref: sparky comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware:33781 comp.sys.mac.hardware:24642
From: reza@magellan.ae.utexas.edu (Alireza Vali)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware,comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: Re: Where the mac really wins
Date: 20 Dec 92 18:25:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: ut-emx.85620
Followup-To: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware

In article <1gpep7INNm4c@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> craig@ec.uwa.oz.au (Craig Richmond - division) writes:
>
>What is the resale value of a 486 one year after it is purchased?  40% of
>the original purchase price?  The mac still can be sold for about 60-70% of
>the original price after a year.  While this is not a good thing, people
>who purchase macs are on much better financial ground than PC purchasers
>and when you have labs full of them it makes a difference.  Sadly, the
>resale of Macs is becoming worse because of the drastic price cutting by
>Apple and the impending release of the PowerPC will only compound problems.
>I am very depressed.  I'm getting in now rather than waiting until early
>1994 when everyone else will make it the in thing to be depressed.  Call me
>a trend setter if you will.

I think you answered your own question.  Comparing resale values a year
after the purchace is irrelevant.  PC class systems are in a price free
fall.  Mac prices are dropping as well, but not nearly at the pace of the
Intel/AMD/Cyrix systems.  One of my friends bought a 486/33 in October 91
for $2800.  An equivalent system sells for $2000 today.  If he were to sell
his system with a "reasonable" 60% retention (based on today's "new" prices)
he would get $1200 for it.  That's roughly 43% of the original purchase
price.  I don't follow Mac prices, but I doubt if the high end systems
have dropped 29% or more in price since last year.  
-- 
Ali R. Vali - reza@magellan.ae.utexas.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
From: jimd@fraser.sfu.ca (Jim Davies)
Subject: ast486 RAM
Keywords: memory
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 05:06:41 GMT

I have an AST 486 and am in search of 8megs of RAM. Apperantly
this unit uses non-generic *WPB* SIMMS. Anyone have any reccomendations
regarding sources, brands, prices, stories etc. 

Jim Davies
jimd@sfu.ca

Organization: Sophomore, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 18:12:47 -0500 
From: Peter William Wieland <pw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: drive geometry needed

I'm trying to install an IBM R44 harddrive into my pc.  Does anyone know
the geometry of this drive?

please respond my email to pw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu

thanx

****************************************************************************
None of the ideas expressed above are acutally mine.  They are told to
me by Luthor and Ferdinand, the five inch tall space aliens who live
under my desk.  In return for these ideas, I have given them persmision
to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
Peter Wieland               pw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu            dmonger+@cmu.edu
From: exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (Patrick Taylor)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Re: AMD rubbish????
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:36:41 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

In article <1992Dec9.145733.29757@vitro.com> mmangieri@vitro.com (Mikey) writes:

>I concur. I sell PC-clones as a side business and the AMD chip is just fine. I
>own a 386-40 AMD myself, and I'm very pleased with its performance.

Me also.  In fact, I'm using one right now ;-)
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    !!! H A P P Y   H O L I D A Y S !!!

  - Patrick Taylor, Ericsson Network Systems
    exuptr@exu.ericsson.se                    "Don't let the .se fool you"
    exuptr@ZGNews.Lonestar.Org  <SLOW!>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Subject: Re: Bus def's ==> Re: EISA vs. ISA (& VESA, VL-bus, Local bus)
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:34:08 GMT

In <8673@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> hwrvo@kato.lahabra.chevron.com (W.R. Volz) writes:

>|> While we are at the subject, could some one please tell us all,
>|> what are the differences between 
>|> 	* ISA         (the mormal 386 type bus, right?)
>|> 	* EISA        (extended ISA, 32 bit, look like IAS but twice
>|>                        longer right?)
>|> 	* VL-bus      (differnt type of expansion slot, looks all
>|>                        diferent, much smaller than ISA, connected to the
>|>                        CPU directly, good for video cards, or is it VESA?)
>|> 	* Local Bus   (?)
>|> 	* VESA        (?^10)

>ISA is the old bus for the AT. It is 16 bits wide and runs at 8 mhz though
>it can be sped up some.

>EISA is a new Extended ISA bus. It is 32 bits wide and runs at 33 mhz, 
>I think. This bus should be 32 * 33 / ( 16 * 8) or about 8 times faster
>than the ISA bus. I don't know what cards are available but ISA is 
>compatible with this bus though is halves the bus speed. Don't know what
>that does to cards expecting an 8 Mhz bus.

People keep asking this question, and people keep getting it wrong.
EISA runs at ***8.33*** MHz.  It will transfer at FOUR times the speed
of the ISA bus (twice as wide and only requires one clock per transfer
vice two for the ISA), for a speed rating of 33 MB/s.  Plugging an ISA
card into an EISA bus does NOTHING to the bus speed.  Of course, that
card can only talk 16-bits wide, so THAT CARD will run at half the
speed of an EISA card plugged into the same bus.  Cards expecting an 8
MHz bus see an 8 MHz bus, because that's what the bus runs at (8.33
MHz). 

>VL-bus is Vesa Local bus. 

>Local Bus is a special set of up to 3 slots that connect directly to
>the CPU bus. It coordinates with the CPU for data transfer, this giving
>very fast response. This is a new design so things could change in the
>next year or so. Usually one puts a Local bus video card and a disk
>controller in the slots so you get very fast graphics and disk access.

>Vesa is a local bus standard that most vendors are appearing to 
>adhere to now. It runs at 33 mhz. What that does for 50 mhz systems, I'm
>not sure. Someone say that one adds some stop bits on to the bus to
>slow it down????

Close.  It runs at UP TO 33 MHz (I've been told the actual spec goes
up to 40 MHz, but there are no 40 Mhz VL systems out there yet because
there aren't any 40 MHz CPUs except for the AMD 386.  The VL bus will,
obviously run at the speed of the CPU.  If the CPU is a 25 MHz part,
the VL bus slots will run at 25 MHz (not 33 MHz).  I'm not sure what
happens if the CPU is a 50 MHz part, either.

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
From: wbedard@wezea.usc.edu (William Bedard)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: EISA/VL-Bus Combination MBs
Date: 17 Dec 1992 05:53:17 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: wezea.usc.edu
Keywords: EISA VL-Bus VESA motherboards


Hello All.

	I would like to know if anyone has any experience with any of the
combination EISA/VL-Bus motherboards offered by a very few companies (NICE, etc).
I am looking at buying a new system (486DX2 66MHz based) for my home so there
seems to be a good argument for me to settle on an ISA (+ VL-Bus) based system
since I do not really need to server performance or cost.  However,  I have seen
some pretty good deals offered for the above-mentioned combination motherboards
from companies like Aberdeen, AMS, CIN, etc.  and would like to know peoples
opinion on their merit.

	You can email me directly ( wbedard@ucs.usc.edu ) or just post to the
group since I have not seen any info regarding this and others may be interested.


						Many Thanks,

						William A. Bedard III
						email: wbedard@ucs.usc.edu