From: johnsd2@vccnw06.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson)
Subject: Re: Atheism as a religion
Reply-To: johnsd2@vccnw06.its.rpi.edu.its1
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 16:29:13 GMT

In article 728233438@cunews, gj156879@alfred.carleton.ca ( gj student 156879) writes:
>This contraversial subject line ought to get your attention.

You've got nothing on Bill Connors. (well, except being polite, reasonable
[so far], treating atheists like humans.. you know that sort of civilized
stuff... :) )

[ok, ok, I apologize for polluting this followup with that kind of flamage,
which isn't even related to you. But I could not resist the straight line.]

>I asked my SO last eve if atheism could be considered a religion unto
>itself.

What'd he (she? it?) think?

>  Simply a recognition that the only form of religion that
>makes any sense is one that is personal, as opposed to an organized
>religion, where dogma and nonsense are spewed.  

Well, I wouldn't say this describes atheism. Atheism would not permit
that any religion with a god in it makes any sence, personal or not.

>This happens to be why I think discussing Taoism and any other form of
>philosophy or religion should occur in this area.

If you wish to argue that Taoism is atheist, or atheism is Taoist,
or something, I'm all ears.

Don't know much about Taoism tho so explain as you go.

>  Just because you
>are an atheist doesn't mean you're a moralless dog eating cretin etc
>etc. as some religious folk would tend to believe.

Why thank you. I like to think so too.

>The formation of beliefs of a personal nature are a hell of a lot more
>interesting than the formation of beliefs under a religious structure.

? Not sure what you mean here.

>If you are a "catholic", the scope of your beliefs would tend to be
>limited.  If you are an atheist, your "religious/philosophical" views
>can come from many sources, and avoid the bits you don't like.

That's a nice but, but then atheism isn't exactly parallel with
catholicism. Atheism is small, just one quality (that is, the
quality of not believing in any gods), catholicism is a neat
pre-packaged belief system.

This is the reason for the difference. IMHO.

>As for myself, I'm an agnostic who has read some religious texts, some
>philosophy texts, etc. and I get to pick and choose.  Is this moral
>irresponsibility or pure luscious freedom?  (Guess which i think it
>is...)

It is fine with me. I see nothing in it relating to morality.
Or lusciousness (you dip it in chockolate or something? :) )

I recommned you go check out the alt.atheism FAQ tho, before you
go much further. I dont know if you fit our idea of 'agnostic' or not;
We don't seem to fit your idea of 'atheist'. Well I do not.

>What I'm interested in is whether the atheists out there have read
>spiritual texts, whether they have read philisophical texts, etc. or
>whether they just get their beliefs solely on the basis of life
>experiences.  Where did you atheists GET your beliefs?

I got MINE mostly on the basis of life experience, but I do not consider
this adequate so I have been reading philosophical and religious stuff,
too. However, I am in no hurry.

>  I understand
>there are quite a few people in here who "lost the faith" or became
>disillusioned with their "chosen" religion.  (Ie. the one mom and dad
>told you you were going to like)

:) I fit that discription.

>So how about it:  where did your beliefs/morals come from?

Mostly Mom+Dad, as with most people. Some come from various other places.
I cant really summarize very well... I dont remember everything.

Atheism for me did not exactly come from anywhere. I rejected the dogma
I was supposed to believe, and bang there I was, an atheist without
knowing it (yet). I'm not going to tell you exactly why I rejected
it (some of it is too personal for me to tell you), but part of it
is that I just didn't like God. After I realized that I did not even
LIKE him- not an easy thing to accept, and it took years, it was easier.

going from "My Savior and Protector" -> "Just Me" is hard. Going
from "Big Bully in the Sky, Never done anything for me" -> "Just Me"
is easier.

---
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0

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