From: evansmp@uhura.aston.ac.uk (Mark Evans)
Newsgroups: alt.irc
Subject: Re: Useless Bots
Date: 27 Jul 92 11:53:13 GMT
Organization: Aston University

oren@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Oren Kastner) writes:
: Avalon: said that bots are a waste and should be killed on sight, as far as it
:         was his concern.
: 
:         Lesse, here...  Whenever I've been on IRC and did a `/whois avalon' it
:         seems that he is always around -- but most of the time `/away.'  Thus,
:         it seems that avalon is on IRC *AS MUCH* as any other Bot, if not
:         more.  And usually, the bots serve more purpose -- more than likely.
:         In this case, should avalon be killed on sight, too?  He's as much of
:         a waste of bandwidth as any bot that's out there.  Heck, he probably
:         generates more traffic on an over all basis figuring that when he *IS*
:         actually there he /msg's and /traces all over the place, etc...
The most net intensive commands are MODE, KICK, TOPIC, PART, JOIN, NICK & USER.
The reason is because these are sent out with a flood algorithm to every
server.
(Try looking at the source if you don't belive me)
MSG and TRACE only impact the servers they are sent to and from.
What is a problem are auto-opping and auto-kicking bots, these can
easily generate large ammounts of traffic. especially as some appear
so poorly written that they will attempt to op people who already are op.

: 
: `Moose' (Michael Dinn?): said that he thinks bots to be a waste and as such he
:         took out the `-b' option in his site's public ircII client.  I make the
:         assumption that its the site as if it wasn't that he needn't worry
:         about anyone using it. :-)  So, I'd like to know how come he thinks it
:         so appropriate to inflict *HIS* opinion on his users -- does he call
:         THAT ``service.''  How would he like it if his SysAdmin got upset over
:         getting a ``Connection timeout..'' on a telnet, once, and hence,
:         removing all telnet clients off of the machines.  Does ``Moose'' rather
:         have people compiling their own clients all over the place and waste
:         more resources than really necessary?
You are talking nonsense, your analogy does not hold.
The -b option, is not essential for the function of the program.
It comes under the heading of "bells and whisles"
(presumably it is a 'bell' hence -b :-) )
: 
: Mark Evans:  This guy is a REAL piece of work!  [Hence, I will flame him more
:         than anyone else!]  First, he *ACTUALLY* logged on to IRC and /msged
:         every *Bot* or *Serv* he could find to see what they do.
No in fact I used the list moose posted.
:         he posts to alt.irc telling us which *HE* thinks provide what he
:         considers a ``worthwhile'' service.  What really gets me more than
:         anything else is his ``righteous'' attitude.  He thinks that IRCbots
I posted the info the bots provide whan you ask them.
:      To conclude I'd like to point out that as *I*'ve understood it, IRC is
: under the GNU copyleft and was written with the spirit of ``freedom of
: expression.''  To censor someone's expression by ``killing'' his/her creation
: seems pretty sick to me.  Stop butting your noses into other people's business
: and worry about how YOU lead your life (be it real or virtual existence).  I'd
: hate to think that because of a few of you, someone would not have the pleasure
: of learning something new -- be it writing/running/communicating with a
: program.  Personally, I've never written or have ``owned'' a bot -- but I
: would never discourage someone from doing so if they were interested.  I could
: see an argument for someone having 10+ robots roaming around -- and even then,
: I'd have a hard time justifying that s/he be stopped or banned or whatever.
: But to make a fuss of some users having a bot or two?  Why not ban people from
: posting to Usenet?  It's a *LOT* higher traffic (right?) and so many questions
: always get asked over and over and over again.
The point is that IRC operates in real time, therefore an answer is expected
quickly.
The extra usage of bots does make a performance diffence. (they comprise
a sizable %age of the traffic)
Usenet is send at a lower priority, and frequently over different communication
media from IRC anyway.
(what %age of usenet traffic am I generating or for that matter myself
avalon and moose, as you appear to have lumped us together?)
-- 
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Mark Evans                                   |evansmp@uhura.aston.ac.uk
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Newsgroups: alt.irc