HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: After Socialism, it is time for Secularism!
From: vkuttikattu@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: 6 Apr 92 20:13:42 CST
Reply-To: hyder@cs.utexas.edu
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Missouri-Kansas City

In article <ktf46lINNkh5@crewcut.cs.utexas.edu>, hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder) writes:
> Today in NY Times was a detailed account of the Kurds' struggling
> in Turkey for their independence. Kurds are a sizeable population in
> Turkey. They have now taken up their arms in a bloody war
> for independence. Reportedly about 3000 Kurds have already been killed.
> The situation is very  similar to that in Kashmir. Turkey's army
> and police appears very much like an occupation force, having nothing
> in common with the Kurds in their province, and using torture and
> human-rights violations to curb the militancy of Kurds.
> 
> Both Turkey and India were founded on loud slogans of "secularism". 
> Socialism, another big slogan-monger of "secularization" has
> already departed, dead and burried in the dust of the erstwhile
> Soviet Union. Now, it seems, it is time for Turkey to realize
> how deluded it had been all along, for accepting "secularism"
> as a key and panacea of all evils!!!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr Syed,
            WAKE UP!!!!!
The problem between the Turks and the Kurds is the same as:

the problem between Pakisthan and East Pakisthan(lucky for them they are now
free from your hypocrisy and called Bangladeshis),
                                                               *******     
(and) the problem between Pakisthan(Punjab) and Sindh,               *
 ^^^                                                                 *POOR   
(and) the problem between Pakisthan(Punjab) and Baluchisthan,        *PEOPLE  
 ^^^                                                                 *PITY
(and) the problem between Pakisthan(Punjab) and the Kashmiri JKLF ,  *THEM
 ^^^                                                            ******
its a problem of nationalism.

(And) do not forget the Mohajirs.
 ^^^ (thats a lot of "and"s for one country)

But then of course you might legitimately say that all the problems in
Pakisthan are due to the Pakisthani government being a Secular government. 
Of course its a joke    Don't delude yourself         

I realise that you have the Panacea for all evils , don't keep me in
suspense  what is it? ppppplease.
                                   Kunnath  Paulose.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: vu0208@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (!)
Subject: Re: Science and Muslims: some thoughts.
Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 15:34:46 GMT

In article <kupl11INNj6p@spim.mips.com> reddy@mips.com (T.S. Reddy) writes:
>
>     Very eloquently put. I have a chart of the electromagnetic spectrum
>and it's various facets in front of my table, and I keep imaginging that
>it is the only true religion in the world (in a literal and absolute
                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>sense)  because the statements on it are valid anywhere in the known 
 ^^^^^
>universe :-).
>-- 
>T.S.Reddy (e-mail: reddy@mips.com)


Would you consider science as a religion which is constantly being
changed and modified by new discoveries and theories!!!!!!

In fact the test of a *true* religion is that it can withstand the
scientific discoveries of today, tomorrow, and of future! ie. science
can never be able to contradict that religion.

Only Islam has been able to do that, and will do in future
years/centuries. 

Keep your fingers crossed.



Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: mirza@sce.carleton.ca (Murad A. Mirza)
Subject: Re: Nadeem ka Khat Khan kay javab mein
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 22:04:25 GMT

raza@surya.ccs.uwo.ca (Mr. Raza Syed) writes:

>In article <nadeem.703031208@deathstar> nadeem@deathstar.Stanford.EDU (Nadeem Hussain) writes:
>>mirza@sce.carleton.ca (Murad A. Mirza) writes:
>>>>A wonderful story ... mera nam to kahii salo se badnam he ... ab to khial
>>>>rakhne ka koie faida nahee ... (by the way could somebody post the
>>>>standard English for Urdu letters)
>>
>>>>I do cook a great dal though ... 
>>
>>>Good!good! i like dal, but meri dal gulti hi nahi (english - my lentils
>>>soup is dangerous for light stomached).
>>
>>>khuda hafiz
>>>Murad Mirza.
>>
>>Taqreeban aik ghanta pakna chaeea
>>
>>Nadeem.

>Cook just 'masoor' or 'moong' kee dal, they takes short time!:-) as far as 
>channay kee dal is concerned wait till you go home or visit some family
>here!:-):-)

>Have happy cooking!:-)

>S.R.Raza.

assalam alaikum

Shukriya bhai!! aap ney tou kamal ki cheez batai.  nadeem bhai wala experiment
generic dal kay sath kiya laikin jis ney daikha kaha keh halvay mein shakar
ki zuroorat hay. aab masoor say try karoon ga.

khuda hafiz.

Murad[still experimenting] Mirza.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: mss1@cec1.wustl.edu (Muhammad Sajid Saeed)
Subject: Re: Have you driven a Floyd,lately?
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis Mo.
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 23:25:41 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.223812.1073@cco.caltech.edu> faryal@torment.ugcs.caltech.edu (Faryal [Pink Floyd] Ghalib) writes:
>
>	I guess you are the only foolish one.
>
>Faryal
>--
>God is real, unless declared integer

Plain, undisguised insults? Not my style! I think I'll pass this one! 
				sajid
From: obaidr@bullet.ecf.toronto.edu (OBAID ARIF)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: WRATH OF KHAN
Date: 11 Apr 92 06:59:33 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility

In article <1992Apr11.041604.22430@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> khan@ces.cwru.edu (Mansoor Khan) writes:
>
>
>	I am sick and tired of the garbage on s.c.p.
>concerning ahmedi vs. muslim, and burqa vs. no burqa.
>Jeffri and Noor-chashm please move your  crap
>to soc.religon or your personal emails. 
>Since both of you claim to be The Muslim, practice
>"Lakum deen o kum valay-ya-deen"
>
	I agree with you that the 'bahess' has become 'bahess bara-ay bahess'
rather than a good discussion. However, I hope you do not mean that topics
such as these should not be discussed at all on scp.

>And same goes for Burqa-Posh and non burqaa people. Enough is enough.
>Jeffri why dont you buy a burqa for yourself? and may be
>try covering your garbage with it.
>
	The last line gave me a good laugh! However, I think it was uncalled
for. Khan sahab, itna ghussa ! 

>It has become so boring that.......
>
>Hum hee so ga-ae daastaa'n  "sountay sountay"
>
	mana kara tha na ammi nay, ithnee daastaa'nay sounnay ko !

>mansoor
>
>
Arif Obaid

p.s. tamaam behno ka eik bha-ee.....Jafri bhai , Jafri bhai !
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thursday, 9 Apr 1992 09:47:12 EDT
From: <AIK100@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: BRITISH OPEN'92

The British Open Squash Championship has started yesterday and Jansher Khan has
won the first round and now is in the second round . Jahangir Khan is not in
this tournament . I don't know that which other players are playing for
Pakistan . If anyone has some more info contact me. I will post any info as i
get it. Lets hope this cup goes to Pakistan. Jansher is the top seed for this
tournament, as Jahangir is not playing. Jansher has a very good chance of
winning.
   More later...
                     ***PAKISTAN ZINDABAD***
                                                     AZHAR KHAN
From: ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Islamic state and constitution
Date: 9 Apr 92 21:48:52 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Polytechnic University, New York

>From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
>Subject: Re: Islamic Law and Constitution
>
>>[Regarding non muslims] . They have freedom of religion
>>except that they may build no more places of worship in
>>Muslim majority localities, though they may maintain the
>>ancient ones; and non-Muslims can freely change their
>>religions to other non-Muslim religions or Islam, but
>>no conversions away from Islam are allowed.
>

>You got some thing wrong here. It only refers to "new" cities
>which Muslims specifically "build" for themselves. 

You mean Islam permits apartheid???

>Not refers to cities where Muslim and Non-Muslims have been 
>"already" living togather. I am sure the injunction is
>they cannot build (public) places of worships. It is
>not applicable to their personal residences.

So non-muslims cannot worship openly in 'new' cities.
For example,Hindus cannot bulid temples in Islamabad. Right?


>>Non-Muslims may not join the army, may not occupy policy
>>making positions, must pay a jaziyah tax.

>They can not join the army, because defending the country
>is defending the "ideology" (state being ideological not
>territorial). Does any one think that it is logical to
>ask any one to defend an "ideology" on which he doesnot
>believe? Because, defense of the country is only the obligation
>of Muslims, it is perfectly judicial to ask the Muslims
>to pay for the "protection" which is a natural outcome
>of such defense.

You believe that in 'Islamic State' non-mulim MUST 
 live as 2nd,3rd ..... class citizen. Am I justied in drawing
this conclusion?
Do you approve Israel's policy of not allowing its Arab citizens(our
muslim brothers) to serve army and 'sesitive' posts ?
That's what they have been doing. They do not let MOSQUES be repaired.
From: mausoof@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: "Sher Aur Ahmak", comments wanted
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:07:56 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services


	 I have just gone through the article on Akhtar Hameed Khan and his
nursery rhyme "Ahmak aur Sher". Personally I think it is very sad that we are
treating a eminent humanitarian like this. I might bebiased as I have met him
once, but i would like to hear what my fellow netters think about this issue.
Do you think he is a victim of the muslim clergy, how far is the intrepetation
of the rhyme correct. To me it makes no sense, if it does to anyone I would
like to hear about it. As far as the section 295c is concerned, I think that it
should be more explicit in nature and should not try to cover the whole sphere
of Islam.
	Please be reasonable in your remarks. I am not trying to invoke any
flames. I would definately like to hear what the educated future of our country
thinks about such prehistoric laws.                                         

                        		Saqib Mausoof
A woman is a woman
but a good cigar is a smoke.
			
* A woman is a w 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 13:28:19 -0400 
From: "Arun K. Gupta" <ag3l+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Islamic Law and Constitution



Re:  places where non-Muslims may build places of worship:

In "Amsar al-Muslimin" which is translated in Maudoodi's
book as "purely Muslim inhabitations", and which has been
defined elsewhere (see Maudoodi's citations) as "where
Friday and `Id congregations are held" -- non-Muslims
may not build new places of worship, though they may 
maintain pre-existing areas of worship. Furthermore,
in the purely Muslim localities, non-Muslims may not
hold religious processions.

Places which were once purely Muslim, but since have
become places where Friday and 'Id congregations are no
longer held, cease to have these restrictions.

Maudoodi also quotes Ibn `Abbas : Non-Muslims may not
build new places of worship or have public religious functions
in towns founded by Muslims. In other towns, Zimmi rights
will be defined by treaty.

Maudoodi says that an Islamic Govt. thus has full discretion
to impose these restrictions.

-arun gupta
ag3L@andrew.cmu.edu
From: hbr6165@zeus.tamu.edu (harish)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: You should be ashamed
Date: 7 Apr 92 04:53:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr7.020359.15332@prism.poly.edu>, ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain) writes...
>>From: ahsan@kraft.ecn.purdue.edu (Ahsan Ale-Rasool)
>>Subject: The FALSE prophet from Qadiyaan
> 
>>On the contrary the Ghulam Qadiani did not do anything like Jesus was supposed

> 
>  What kind of garbage are you writing?
>  Nobody EVER told you to respect others religious figures?
> 

> 

>Stop degrading and hurting our feelings. Your God will 

	It's high time that this discussion be stopped..! The level
has gone down so low..! that basic decency needed in a scholarly discussion
is completly ditched and thrown away.
	It's not correct to hurt ones feelings and condemn one's
beliefs.. Religion is personal.. If I like, I can start my own religion,
and if some people wants to follow that, it is his choice..  
Nobody has the right to condemn or degrade any religion, (and definitely
not) religious figures whom many people worship and respect..
 If Noor, and Co do not like to hear more of this, then 
they should act.. They should stop this discussion, they should 
stop replying to these kinds of postings. I am sure there are
lot more interesting stuffs to be discussed in SCP. This is not
the only thing that represents "Culture of Pakistan".
So, put a FULL Stop now..

-Harish
From: ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Khol Aankh, Zameen Daykh, Faluk Daykh, Faza Daykh
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:31:09 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Polytechnic University, New York

>From: iqbal@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu (Kamran Iqbal)
>Subject: Ahmadi's and Finality of Prophethood
	
>	Muslim Scholars all over the world are of the unanimous
>opinion that any followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad are NOT MUSLIMS.

And  you believed them??
Organization: Freshman, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Date: Thu,  9 Apr 1992 10:50:02 -0400 
From: Asad Iqbal <ac46+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: 2 + 2 = 5

>  If you add two plus two and it equals four in
>your mind, but then supposing you find that
>Islam says that two plus two equals five, then
>you better go with Islam, because in the end
>when your perception of this universe is allowed
>to improve, you will find that 2 + 2 = 5!
> 
>  Thus, God wants to check if you trust Him.
>This is the whole story of this world. 
>It is the ultimate illusion, created to test
>a human being's imaan.
> 
>  Do not go too much into worldly schemes.
>You will get further away from developing
>the ability to distinguish from reality
>and illusion. Always look for Signs, and for
>that you need a soft heart, a heart that
>can hear the whisper of the wind, the pattern
>of circumstances and their effects.
> 
>  You are actually two entities: the body
>and the soul. The soul understands imaan,
>but the body may be unaware of its own soul.
>When the body's need for ego is vanquished,
>soul and body become one, and the body recognizes
>the soul. It is important to perform prayer
>and remembrance of Allah swt to make this
>connection between the two entities.
 
Are you okay ?
What's wrong with you. Firstly Islam wants you to be totally in control
of yourself which I think refutes your main point that Allah wants to
check if you trust him (your article seems to make no sense to me so I'm
assuming that that is your main point). Anyway you seem to be totally
into this soul and body stuff. Come now, its good to be a Muslim and all
but extremism is bad. For your own and for the sake you those near you
step out of it. Islam itself teaches moderation but people have just not
understood that yet even after over 1400 years. That is very sad, but
alas its true. We have never really followed Islam what we have followed
is a quest for an identity. While the world made an identity for itself
by getting increasingly industrialized and modernised we muslims got
ourselves branded as terrorists and fanatics because we said "We have
Allah with us, so we are the supreme nation" Well Sir, that's not the
case. Being Muslim is no big deal, being a true muslim is. Moderation is
the key to a better life. God doesn't need our trust. He is up there
commanding the world all he wants us to do is pray and be nice to all
his creation. He wants us not to follow islam blindly, but to undersatnd
it thouroghly. There is a quotation that I'd like to add from the Quran,
but I just can't remeber it now. However it basically says what I just
said, undersatnd islam and yuo'll automatically follow it. That's all
there is to it. No body, no soul, and no trust in god is required.

ASAD IQBAL

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: askhan@csws2.ic.sunysb.edu (Ashfaq Khan)
Subject: A JOKE
Originator: askhan@csws2.ic.sunysb.edu
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 00:48:15 GMT

	Aik aadmee aik kooain kay pass baeetha keh raha tha "Saat,saat,
saat....." Aik aur aadmee wahan say guzra to poochnay laga, "Kayaa saat,
saat laga rakhee hay?" Is per pehla aadmee kehta hay, "Tum bhee dekh low."
Jaeesay he yeh aadmee kooain main dekhta hay to pehla aadmee usay dhakka
day dayta hay. Ab wo keh raha tha,"Aath,aath...."


TRANSLATION:

	A guy was sitting on the edge of a deep well and was yelling,
"Seven,seven,....." Someone else passed by and asked, "What the hell are you
crying for?" First guy replies, "Come and see." The minute he looks into the
well, first guy pushes him into it. Now he was saying, "Eight, eight,...."


P.S.
	Makes any sense? 
	Perhaps stinks?
	Comments and other jokes are welcome.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: amkhan@caen.engin.umich.edu (Abdul Monuem Khan)
Subject: Re: 'Ham agai to garmia bazar dekhna'
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 92 10:26:00 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <92097.04382432JMVQG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> Mahfooz Ahmed Jafry <32JMVQG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> writes:
>Salam Alaikum :  'Ham Aagai to garmie bazar dekhna'
>
>       Eid Mubarak to muslims only.  I do not know why Ummnoor is extending Eid
> greetings ?  Whether he is a muslim ?  In Eid's hama hami, he started counting
> himself among muslims ? Ch khoob ?  Baske mushkil hai her ek kam ka asan huna
                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Correct 'misra' is,
                     baske dushwar hey har kam ka aasaN hona 
,
>yani Qadiyani ka musulman hoona, further more, ummnoor sent me Eid Mubarak thro
>ugh e-mail, I need help from Brothers like Murad Mirza, Jamal Mubrak and Irfan
>Hyder that what I do in response ?  Eid is restricted to muslims only but ummn

This is not a big problem, just delete it without reading.

>or and Qadiyanese 'phir purshishe jarahat dil ku chala hai ishq' .... please he
>lp me, help me, my sheikh said, no and no, do not say Eid Mubrak to Qadiyani,,w
>hat I do now :  Can anobody complete this :
>
>             'Guunchai na shagufata ko door say mat dekha ke yun
>                       .................................             Ghalib

Second 'misra' is,  
                   bosa ko poochta hooN meiN muNh se mujhey bata ke yun

( I think, I got it right)


Wassalam

KHAN



Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: obaidr@bullet.ecf.toronto.edu (OBAID ARIF)
Subject: Re: 2 + 2 = 5
Keywords: 
	I do not agree with your 'reasoning', Khan Sahib. If 2+2 is indeed 4
	What will you do if your religion tells you that the earth is flat
	The foundation of Islam is on the statement:"Bring your proof". Hence, 
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 04:10:16 GMT

	"Do they not ponder over the Qur'an? Had it been from other than 
	 Allah, they would have surely have found therein much discrepancy."

				[Surah 4 verse 82]

	This verse tells us the criterion for proof of which book, if any, is
from the Creator. If this is what the Quran has to say about inconsistencies
then if it contained a verse such as the statement I have made above, we 
would conclude that the book is NOT from the Creator and hence would discared it.
	Yes, according to the Qur'an the believers will be tested of their
imaan. But what is tested of them is not whether they believe in some 
nonsense but rather the following:

	"Be sure We shall test you with something of fear, And Hunger, some
         loss in goods, lives and the fruits (of your toil), but give
         glad tidings to those who patiently persevere,-

        "Who say, when afflicted with calamity: "To Allah We belong, and to 
         Him is our return":-
	

	"They are those on whom (Descend) blessings from their Lord, And Mercy.
         And they are the ones That receive guidance."

						[ Surah 2, verses 155-157]

>  Do not go too much into worldly schemes.
>You will get further away from developing
>the ability to distinguish from reality
>and illusion. Always look for Signs, and for
>that you need a soft heart, a heart that
>can hear the whisper of the wind, the pattern
>of circumstances and their effects.
>
	What you need to look for Signs from the Creator is a mind that 
is devoid of beliefs for which it has no proofs. A clear and thinking mind,
so that the process of reasoning can effectively take place. Emotions 
will not lead you to the truth.

>  You are actually two entities: the body
>and the soul. The soul understands imaan,
>but the body may be unaware of its own soul.
>When the body's need for ego is vanquished,
>soul and body become one, and the body recognizes
>the soul. It is important to perform prayer
>and remembrance of Allah swt to make this
>connection between the two entities.

	"O ye who believe! seek help with patient Perseverence and Prayer:
         for God is with those who patiently persevere."
					[Surah 2 verse 153]



Arif Obaid

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Nabeel Ghuzlaan)
Subject: Re: Reply #3 to Mr. Jamal Mubarak
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 18:26:31 GMT

umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Nasir Ahmed Noor) writes:

>Very Good!
>Didn't I agree with this? Only if you had read my post carefully, you would
>have come to know that I didn't only agree with this meaning but also 
>supplied an example which does give a meaning of last from Khatam.

>This time the debate was not with help of other references but Quran. Can't
>you find that!

   I did not know Koran is a dictionary. I guess I am ignorant.

>Sir,
>The whole picture should be clear to you and many others now. We are
>going in opposite directions. I agree to disagree with you.
>At this moment I would like to draw your attention to a recent post
>by Mr. Nabeel Rana, in which he argues that if Ahmadiyya Islam was started
>by a bunch of liars and is followed by enemies of Allah and Hazrat Muhammad
>then why is it prospering every day.

>You know that more than 50000 (yes fifty thousand) people accept Ahmadiyyat
>every year and these figures are improving every day and soon these will
>start mulitiplying, Insha-Allah. Doesn't it raise any serious questions
>in the minds of sensible people that if Ahmadiyyat was the creation of
>an imposter, why on earth is it getting all divine help!!!

   Atheists are getting more "divine" help!

>Here is what Allah promissed to Hazrat Ahmad;
>     "I WILL CAUSE THY MESSAGE TO REACH CORNERS OF EARTH"

   Now the corners of earth are rounded off, probably he was talking in
parables about corners of hell.
   The promise in Koran is for Muhammad. I do not think God would promise
a "subordinate prophet" such a promise which he did not promise to [more
important] prophets like Moses, Jesus, Noah, Idris and many others.

>Now is the time to ask some questions to ourselves.

   One important question: How well are you preparing for exams?

>I am sorry but I will not be pursuing debate of Khatam and I agree to
>disagree with YOU.

   Smart withdrawal. Congratulations to Jamal.

**Nabeel

--
   Good morning, guys! (It's morning somewhere.)