HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hummell+@pitt.edu (Andrew G Hummell)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:10:22 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

I have found that improvisation and preparation ratios vary from GM to GM.
Some GM's I've played under are very good at one but not the other.  In fact,
one GM I know runs the *worst* prepared games I have ever seen (modules-home
grown, it makes no difference), yet this same GM has run one of the best
improvised games I've ever had the pleasure of playing in (he has been GM-ing
for 14 years, so he is *not* inexperienced).  Another GM I know is exactly
the opposite.

When I GM, I prefer to detail the area the players are likely to travel through.
Then I just allow the players to play.  Sometimes they have a specific goal
(that makes my job a little easier), while other times they just want to
explore for the sake of exploration.  If I have the surrounding areas detailed,
then all I have to do is figure out how the players' actions affect the things
happening in the area.  If there is a goal the players are trying to reach,
then I try to gently guide them towards that goal with clues and NPCs.  If
they don't follow-up on the clues or listen to the NPCs, then that is OK, too.
Players can fail to reach a goal as easily as they can reach it while I am GM.
I prepare important NPCs beforehand and make up others on the fly.

Andy
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "I'm not insane...just a reasonable facsimile."  | Hummell@unix.cis.pitt.edu
  "Character is what you are in the dark."         | Andy Hummell ...that's me 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: carolyns@cityzen.UUCP (Carolyn's Fingers)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Vampire, Mythus.
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:39:07 GMT
Organization: City Zen Radio 1990/2000 FM, Orlando, FL

I was just wondering about these two somewhat new RPGs.  They both look 
somewhat interesting to me, but I'm still a little apprehensive about 
shelling cash (or credit <grin>) for them.
 
Any reviews?  

Many thanks!


carolyns (Carolyn's Fingers)
"I would never want to do that to you, to take you far and leave you 
 stranded... I would never wish this much on you - when what you have 
 might be enough."  - "Drive That Fast," Kitchens of Distinction.
From: keller@shera.Tymnet.COM (Pamela K. Keller)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SRun: Firearms range (was Mag 3 Cyber Eyes in Combat
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:15:24 GMT
Organization: BT North America (Tymnet)

In article <Bsy79v.4ML@news.cso.uiuc.edu> dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly) writes:
>As for whether Vis Mag 3 could work, I can see it working. You would look
>around with your normal range of vision, but when you pick a target, the
>sighting would slew out to give a full size image of your target. This would
>work really well if you also had a rangefinder.

The part that bothers me from the original post was an implication that the 
person with Vis Mag 3 was firing a SMG while running and was expecting
to have short range accuracy.  If the short range accuracy is produced by
makeing the target easier to see, what happens to everything else in the
field of vision?  How fast does the mind adjust to this change in visual
perception?  Can you use this kind of targeting and run at the same time?


        Pam Keller      keller@calvin.Tymnet.COM
From: cwagner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Christian Wagner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Gurps Supers is still broken : was Re: Best Super system
Date: 17 Aug 92 07:07:02 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Aug10.165459.25337@sco.COM> paul@sco.COM (Paul Jackson) writes:
>As I've said, I KNOW that this is realistic, it is just (IMO) NOT the way to
>run a great many styles of Super campaigns. Note my description of my GM
>style, I do NOT want to have to pull my punches, I want the opposition to
>act as effectively as possible to achieve its ends. I also want the PC's to
>be able to survive a sub optimal decision or some bad luck.

This is your problem; you can't have both and have realism as well.

 The PC's tend to
>go against strong, smart opponents. I just found that I needed game system
>help to keep things survivable.

You -never- need game system help to keep your players alive. Haven't you
heard of the term "GM fiat"? 

"Well, I rolled a critical hit on the PC's head, but I don't think he 
deserves to die from just bad luck; he's been a damn good player."

Option 1) "Sorry, Jack, but your character is dead as a doornail."

Option 2) "Jack's PC takes a grazing shot to the side of the skull, taking 
          n points of damage, and knocking him unconcious." 

Which choice gives you and the players more options later in the game?

>My players are NOT going to outsmart the opponents every time. If they do
>that in your games then you're just not playing the opponents effectively.

My players don't outsmart the enemy every time. But I have -good- players; 
they roleplay to the hilt and are devious bastards at times. I play the enemy
as nasty as they need to be, and the players play their characters as nasty as
-possible-. I do "pull my punches" if it suits the genre and/or NPC, but don't
-- 
    "Well, do you ever get the feeling that the Story's too damn real
                        and in the present tense?"
               Christian Wagner - cwagner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Role-players who powergame
From: mikew@mdcbbs.com (Mike 'the Bard' Whitaker)
Date: 18 Aug 92 08:53:24 PDT
Organization: Shape Data - a division of EDS Ltd

Mad Chris writes:
>Actually, I have one powergamer in my group who can role-play perfectly
>well. Anyone else encountered this type? They make their characters little
>Gods, but when it comes to the role playing situations - they deliver.

Yeah - my favourite GM (who plays a fair bit) as well. He is something of a 
power gamer, but many of his CHARCTERS come from an empire that he GM's, set 
in a world that several people GM in) which is a Lawful Neutral, erm... 
"tyranny" is going too far - basically a strong and powerful lawful empire. 
Being ruthlessly efficient and optimal in use of spells etc is in the 
racial type!
-- 
Mike Whitaker +44-223 | mikew@mdcbbs.com, bard@spuddy.uucp | Me: Bards just
Shape Data/EDS 316673 | -or- mwhitaker@cix.compulink.co.uk | KNOW things...
From: ratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri/Stainless Steel Rat)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Astral Adepts-
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:31:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: splinter.RATINOX.92Aug19213126
Reply-To: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
In-reply-to: ward1@husc8.harvard.edu's message of 19 Aug 92 22:27:35 GMT
X-Get-A-Clue: Have two, they're small.
X-Signature-Virus-Protection: Version 1.51
X-Posting-Software: GNUS 3.14.1 [ NNTP-based News Reader for GNU Emacs ]

>>>>> "LW" == Lester Ward <ward1@husc8.harvard.edu> writes:

LW> BTW, I was under the impression that 1) your astral defence pool is
LW> always equal to whatever combat skill you are using, and 2) (un)armed
LW> combat is always available to you in astral, regardless of opponent.
LW> (This pool goes away in SRII, BTW.

To a point, yes it is. But the Astral Defense Pool only applies if the
attack is of the same kind as whatever skill you use. If you use Unarmed
Combat as your Astral Combat Skill, the Astral Defense Pool only works
against other Unarmed Combat; it gives you diddly-squat against spirits or
spells. [I interpret it this way from the example on page 66 of the
Grimoire: if you use Conjuring as your Combat Skill, you only get your
Defense Pool against spirits.]

Once the Adept has Initiate grades, he can use his grade as an Astral Pool,
which adds to anything done in Astral space, but I don't see this Astral
Adept as surviving long enough for that. Not when he's this brightly
shining target in Astral space.

LW> When making this Adept, I actually left some things out to avoid making
LW> him too powerful.

As some kind of contact, this "assensing adept" might be useful. Probably
not as a PC; he's dead in almost any encounter on the Astral planes. At
least allow the studying of Sorcery, Conjuration, and Enchanting, just for
Astral combat, to give him a chance at defending himself.

--RAt

||||| | | | |  |  |  |   |   |    |    |    |   |   |  |  |  |  | | | | | |||||
                                                   __        ___ 
Richard Pieri, Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat/   | /| / /   | The Worlds
Internet: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu   /__  |/ |/ / /| | Welfare Works
    UUCP: ...!northeastern.edu!meceng!ratinox  /   | /| / / / | | Association:
  BITNET: UA_RLP@NUHUB{.BITNET}               /__  |/ |/ / /  | | I will solve
  USNail: 14 Westdale RD  Holbrook, MA 02343 /   | /| / / /___| | any problem
 ICBMnet: 42 deg 1 min N, 71 deg 0 min W    /    |/ |/ /_//_____| for you.
From: swann@acsu.buffalo.edu (Stephen Swann)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 22 Aug 92 16:58:33 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <1992Aug22.045342.14863@tronsbox.xei.com> dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com (Dennis Heffernan) writes:
>
>	Hardly.  You'll go where I want you to go, because you already want to
>go there.

Interesting, that you're so sure of that.  Are your players under the
influence of hypnosis?

>|What do you mean by "meaningful"? 
>
>	One that wasn't made up thirty seconds ago.

Ok, if that's what twists your crank.

>|offer any other kind yet.  At any rate, you simply refuse to admit
>|that the players could do anything that you didn't anticipate, which
>
>	Oh, they've done things I haven't anticipated.  They just can't do
>anything USEFUL I didn't anticipate.  There are only a finite number of ways
>a problem can be attacked, and I'll have covered them.

hahaahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha  Oh my god.  I would
have so much fun in your campaign...  You'd probably burst an artery.


>	Dude, in one of my fantasy campaigns, you couldn't FIND a wizard unless
>I wanted you to. 

Ah, I see.  Based on the above, I decline to waste any more of my time
discussing this with you.  I'm talking about interactive roleplaying
games, and you're talking about "My way or no way".

-- 
Steve Swann                 |    Speak to me in many voices; make
swann@acsu.buffalo.edu      |      them all sound like one...  -BOC
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Subject: Re: Gurps Supers is still broken : was Re: Best Super system
Reply-To: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 17:48:30 GMT

laird@think.com (Laird Popkin) writes:
>dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly) writes:
>>Hmm. Is it easier to take a punch you know is coming, or one that totally
>>surprises you?
>>If you really want the body increased, increase it..but dead people isn't
>>typical superguy genre.
>
>On the other hand, a punch isn't going to do the damage of, say, a pistol
>simply because the target isn't expecting it.  If you wanted to get picky,
>you could probably argue that someone who isn't expecting to get punched
>will be more relaxed and thus suffer less "whiplash" than someone who is
>tensed up to resist a blow.

	A punch doesn't do the 'damage' of a pistol if you aren't expecting 
it - only the STUN is doubled, because the 'shock' of an unexpected attack 
(which causes stunning, unconciousness, etc.) is greater. I'm not saying this 
is neccessarily realistic - but then, neither is pain from wounds only 
lasting one second. 
	This rule is 'in-genre' mostly in that it allows taking people 
out with one blow (strike to the back of the head and they drop), while 
keeping straight fights from having these sorts of 'one-shot' blows. 

>
>I guess we disagree.  I would rather that the players "got with the genre"
>and did things which are appropriate to the genre than the system warp its
>rules in an attempt to force the players to do the right thing.  In my
>experience, players who are straight out told that, for example, they're
>playing comic book good-guys who don't shoot to kill, play along, whereas
>players who are forced by unrealistic rules (e.g. ambushes do double
>damage) end up sitting around making fun of the rules.  Your mileage
>obviously differs...

	The trouble is, players generally will not do this consistently, 
especially when it is to their disadvantage. People can either ridicule 
their behavior or ridicule the rules - either one is 'unrealistic' because 
the action and genre is 'unrealistic'. 
	I note that GURPS tends to have a problem in that its rules allow 
characters to do almost anything to their *physical* limits, while relying 
mostly on role-playing to produce *mental* limits in combat. For example, 
there is only a 1-second penalty for having your left arm chopped off in 
GURPS - after that, you are fine and only down HT/2. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Kim                    | "All the world will be your enemy, Prince with
jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu | a Thousand Enemies. And when they catch you, 
Columbia University         | they will kill you."         - Watership Down
From: sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 21 Aug 92 00:36:39 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Aug20.205137.27889@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, 
 dunning@chainsaw.ecn.purdue.edu (GALACTIC COMMANDER) writes:
> In article <1992Aug19.164817.58273@cc.usu.edu> 
 sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six) writes:

>>In order to be rewarded, they have to do the right things at 
>>the right times. 
 
> Yes, if we all be good little mice and follow the GMs clever little
> clues then we can find the GEM and win the big nasty module he has
> prepared for us.

Are the freshmen coming back already?  

First of all (actually it's not first of all, I've asked this before), 
what is wrong with rewarding players for playing intellegently, solving
puzzles, unraveling mysteries, etc? If you compare the players to mice, 
I think it's because you've never played in a ``grown up'' game. Sounds
like you have a problem with being a ``good little mouse'' cuz that is 
all you have played in. The reward system I try to run can be very 
complex.

Second (and this really is second of all, cuz I said this before in a
post that Galactic Commander didn't bother to read), I never use modules.
I don't have the money and they never work right.

> If we decide not to run the module then we won't
> find out about the secret treasue room (prearranged of course) that
> we have spin in three circles and pull the nose on the left statue
> to find.

So who's holier than thou? Could you try a little harder NOT to add 
anything to this thread? 

Okay,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chadd VanZanten SL9B4@CC.USU.EDU  ``You know, I thought this was a
good idea but this is one weird mama-jama.''  -- TV's Frank, MST3K
From: morrow@romulus.rutgers.edu (John Morrow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Music & Roleplaying
Date: 14 Aug 92 23:10:26 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

kyle@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Kyle Wohlmut) writes:

>Uh, sorry, but listen again... the opening piece of Carmina, 'Fortuna
>Imperatrix Mundi,' was actually -used in- Conan, I think it was the
>Halle Orchestra recording.  

I have both Conan movies on laserdisk and own both soundtracks on
*yech* vinyl.  I can get a hold of the Carmina Burana on CD (and I
also own Excalliber on laserdisk).  Simple question.  Which scene are
you hearing this in?  If the music is on the soundtrack, it is Basil
Poledouris since the ablum cover identifies the music as written by
Basil and or Basil and Zoe Poledouris.

John Morrow
morrow@remus.rutgers.edu
From: jh@first.gmd.de (Joerg Heuer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Strategic Fantasy Battle Simulator
Keywords: Strategy, Fantasy
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:54:22 GMT

hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert J. Hall) writes:

[...]

>Does anyone know if such an animal is available? What I'd like is a set of
>rules that abstracts the individual battles, but not to the point where you
>lose the flavor of the individual formations. It also has to cover the effects
>of various types of magic, including Wizardry, Religious miracles, and most of
>the typical fantasy beasts.

[...]

I'm not quite sure if I got the point, but I think of 'Dragon Pass' from
Avalon Hill (former 'Red Moon, White Moon' (or so) from Task Force Games (?))
and Yaquinto's 'Beastlord. Both are not Miniature Combat Systems, but battle-
oriented fantasy boardgames. Both incorporate counters representing single
characters or small military units. Magic is in both of them too.

'Dragon Pass' is normally played by two, and in the great scenario, by three
players, whereas 'Beast Lord' is played best with four or three players.
(Of course You could try a two-player scenario with each playing two combat-
parties - never tried this, or scanned the rules for it.)

If my suggestions seem interesting to You, ask for further information.

Ciao,
J"org.
--
Joerg Heuer                   | UUCP:     jh@gmdtub.uucp
GMD-FIRST an der TUB          | INTERNET: jh@first.gmd.de
Rudower Chaussee 5, Geb. 13.7 | KOMEX:    heuer@kmx.gmd.dbp.de
D-1199 Berlin Adlershof, FRG  | Tel/Fax:  +49 30 6704 - 5819/5610
From: eeb1@panix.com (Elizabeth Bartley)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: The Benedictine Problem
Date: 15 Aug 92 17:50:40 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <BszHuy.Eyx@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
kcrook@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Prince Of Amber) writes:

>How does this scenario strike you?

>Benedict pursues Corwin through shadow, Hell-riding as they go, indeed
>Corwin is a sneaky bastard (as can be expected) and gives Benedict a hard
>time, but when Corwin stopped, well...

>Benedict:  Hmm... where's that Bow I had *grin, shadow shift*, Ah, Yes.
>           There it is.

>Do you think Corwin would have been screwed?  I do.  He can try to
>Yadomejutsu all day, and I bet he'd look like a pin cushion all the
>same.  Remember, this is Benedict we're talking about.

>What made the outcome like it occurred?  Not Corwin's skeeviness, but
>Zelazny's plot devices...  I'd more reasonably accept that Oberon (as
>Ganelon) 'influenced' Benedicts perceptions than he fell for Corwin's
>'ingenious' trap.

Benedict was overconfident and allowed himself to go berserk.  Not even
Benedict is immune to the effects of sheer stupidity.

--
              - E. Elizabeth Bartley, a distant Shadow of
Llarana of Rebma and Amber
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: Rannou@info.polymtl.ca (Patrick Rannou)
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal, Canada
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 15:28:30 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.225229.16476@u.washington.edu> mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner) writes:



   >Remember the example of the 
   >floorboards? The players find the gem BECAUSE they search, not because
   >the gem was there to be found. That is not how it works in reality. 

   >Chadd VanZanten SL9B4@CC.USU.EDU  ``You know, I thought this was a
   >good idea but this is one weird mama-jama.''  -- TV's Frank, MST3K

   In this case, preparation is like classical physics:  the gem was there
   whether anyone looked or not.

   And improvisation is like quantum physics:  the gem was undecided until
   someone looked.

   Oddly enough, at a sufficiently fine level of detail the universe may
   resemble improv more than prep....


Wow! What an interesting comparison! I agree...

Just like our universe would be DULL if no quatum physics existed (i.e.
nothing would be random!), because even at sub-atomic sizes regular physics
would apply, then the same way our universe would be tough to live in if
quantum physics applied to macroscopic ranges. Think about it: One moment,
a city is there, the next moment, it isn't!

So, we see that both understading of physics are important.

Same way, in a game, I'd say both prep and improv are important. Just like
classical physics is a simplification of quantum physics, prep work is a
simplification of impro work (after all, creating these scenarios is an
imaginative ewffot, innit?). But at some point down in your prep, you have to
stop and let the pure quantum er... improv way take over.

Thus the gaming universe always gets a SOLID skeleton base, with predefined
general organ and muscle disposition, while in the actual gaming the rest
of the details gets filled in. But bones don't suddenly change shape, just
like cities you've never read the name on a map (or wnet into) change
location and names until you visit them... What had been decided has
"prepared" in the game stay fixed, just like what goes according to
classical physics stay non-random in the real world...

Of course, it's only a game, so even this can be stretched, but it should
be obvious by now that at least SOME preparation is needed, and that
improvisation will ALWAYS be a part of it.

Pat.
--
/---------------------------\
| Patrick "Paradak" Rannou. |
| Rannou@info.polymtl.ca    |
\---------------------------/

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: bkdavis@eos.ncsu.edu (B K DAVIS)
Subject: Re: SRun: Mag 3 Cyber Eyes in Combat
Originator: bkdavis@c00200-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: bkdavis@eos.ncsu.edu (B K DAVIS)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 10:32:25 GMT


>>He thought that they worked like a scope on a gun and reduced the 
>>range of the shot.  I informed him that that was not my opinion, 
>>especially while someone was running and shooting a SMG.  He thought 
>>that the smartgun link would take care of the movement.  After a more 
>>careful look at the mag 3 eyes later, I noticed that it never said 
>>anything about making the range shorter for fire combat, but did have 
>>a short sentence that they "behave like Imaging scopes of the 
>>appropriate rating."
>
>Well, that's what Imaging scopes at level 3 do. They make all ranges
>short. 
>
>>For .1 essense or less and 11,000 Y, I have no intention of letting 
>>them reduce the firearm range of every combat to short.  Is this the 
>>general concensus of the net.srun.gurus?  Help a poor beginning 
>>Shadowrun GM.
>
>*shrug* It's not that overpowering. Consider that a mage never has range
>mods on his combat. This toy just keeps samurai apace of the spellslingers.
>
>Axly


I agree with Axly. Else you really screw over the samurai. What else would be the use 
for havinbg it.


*************************************************************
No I do not make threats, or promises....
.......I just make corpses.
    Brebane The Street Samurai
*************************************************************
Death is nature's way of telling you to
slow down.
*************************************************************
Where am I when I need myself ?
*************************************************************
Death rides a pale horse.
Me 'I just get a pink caddy.
       Lust
*************************************************************
Check your ammo, Watch your back, and never ever deal with a
dragon.
*************************************************************
Choose your enemies wisely.
*************************************************************

Brebane