HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: enigma@netcom.com (Enigma)
Subject: Re: For Sim
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 22:16:36 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Apr3.173639.16588@midway.uchicago.edu> gery@midway.uchicago.edu (Black Pearl) writes:
>In article <1992Apr3.055746.13069@wpi.wpi.edu>,  (Prisoner) writes:
...
>> Accepted doesn't mean approved of! Here's a subtlety for
>> you: accepted means being seen and acknowledged and allowed
>> to _be_. But an acknowledgement is not necessarily an
>> approval; it depends on what is being acknowledged. When you
>> or someone else says "I am hurt by you, I am offended by
>> you" that TOO is an acknowledgement. So, even though Black
>> Pearl probably didn't intend it that way, her anger WAS an
>> acceptance. I'm feeling like laughing because of the irony
>> in the notion that I ought to say "thank you" to her for
>> being angry at me!
>
>Well, believe it or not, I'm glad you feel that way! That was
>the first time I had ever done such a thing, and as I told Sim,
>I've thought of little else since I did it. It was a real
>dilemma for me because I struck out in anger and it felt GREAT!
>My goal (as I understand it, but I am still analyzing my motives)
>was mostly just to stand up for myself, not to hurt you. I was
>deliberately harsh in order to hurt you, yes, but because at
>the time that was the only way I thought you would stop.

I remember when you posted that.  At the time, I was very angry 
at Prisoner, and there was no way I could have said what you did.
I felt like you expressed my anger for me, and I felt great too!
Then I read what Sim posted and went "ohhhhhh".  (I think it was
Sim, anyway...)  His post showed a level of compassion and
understanding way above the level I'm on.  I don't really know how
to deal with anger yet.  I don't know how to defend myself, or
when to defend myself, or what the difference is between defending
myself and attacking others.

For example, I saw a movie the other night that triggered the anger
and rage I have bottled up inside (it was Thelma & Louise, but I
don't want to get in an argument about what it was "really" about,
I'm just talking about what it was about *for me* ).  I've been in
situations like the ones in the movie, where I felt powerless and
unable to stop some man from victimizing me, and seeing the women
in the movie defend themselves really blew me away (I think the pun
is intended, but I'm not sure).  But at the same time I have this 
ideal in my head that I ought to be able to resolve conflict without
shooting people.  I was confused.  Then, for the entire next day,
I was *extremely* depressed.  I kept looking in the mirror and 
saying how ugly I was and how much I hated myself.  I felt
physically sick.  Finally about midnight, my SO asked me if I was
upset about the movie.  I suddenly realized I wasn't depressed, I
was *angry*.  But I'm not supposed to be angry, so it came out as
self-hate.  Does anyone else have this problem to deal with?



-- 
Enigma (enigma@netcom.com)
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: RE: Anniversaries and such
Date: 16 Apr 92 23:16:15 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, asar.181@wpi.wpi.edu wrote:
>I guess I just don't want
>to hurt him with the old feelings, because it was 2 weeks before he and
>I got married that this had happened.

This may sound harsh, but I think the real reason is your feelings toward
what has happened.  You may not be ready to talk with him, which is fine.
However, your answer is the problem here.  I sense that your husband is
reaching out to you, and that your answer is pushing him away.  Would it
be okay for you to say something to the effect that you appreciate his 
concern, but that you really don't want to talk about it then?  This will
show that you recognize his concern, and help you to set up boundaries 
between the two of you.

>  I'm also feeling kind of angry at my therapist because for some reason
>I get the feeling that she would like me to put my healing on a back burner
>just because I'll be a new mom soon. 

It's not good when you "get the feeling that..." from a therapist.  A therapist
should be pretty clear about goals, etc.  I suggest discussing your anger
with your therapist.  As I and some others have said, it is very helpful
and empowering when we are able to tell our therapist we are angry with
them.  This seems to be a communication problem somewhat similar to the
one with your husband.

>  Oh yeah it looks like my mom (and only my mom at the moment) is
>going to come up and visit my husband me and the baby in late August.
>Shit I can deal with her when my dad is around but not on a one
>to one basis.  I told her that I had gotten a good deal for her
>on Delta airlines that would allow my dad to come too.  She tells me
>"I'll think about it" 

Why did you get the deal?  If she or they wanted to visit,
why didn't they make the plans?  I sense some co-dependency here in
that you are allowing this behavior, IMHO.  There could be a way for
you to say that you want to see both of them, and that alone she
may be unwelcome.  What has your father said about not visiting?
This whole story seems a bit fishy to me, with nobody saying what they
really want or need.

>PLEASE RESPOND I need the feedback.  I have felt ignored on my last
>several posts.  Only a few people responded to them.

With the high volume we've been having, it's difficult for everybody
to respond to everyone's posts.  I've been picking and choosing more,
or trying, but it hasn't worked well.  I've posted a lot in the last
few days.

>  *HUGS* to those needing them I know I could use them right now

E-hug!


                                                                        __
    Sim David Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3338.span@sdsc.edu \/
From: Bede_Jarrow@hikssrv.lib.purdue.edu (Bron)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: April 8, 1987/1992
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:43:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.44435
Reply-To: Bede_Jarrow@hikssrv.lib.purdue.edu (Bron)

THis is the fifth anniv. of my breaking up with an abusive, controlling
boyfriend.  Although I continued to remain in contact with him until 1989, it
was my first break for freedom!  I celebrted by giving myself a card (I bought
it Sun. and wrote a message, but had forgotten what I had written so it was
neat to read it anew today--I guess sleep deprivation/confusion does have its
advantages!).  I congratulated myelf for the anniv. and also for the fact that
I turned in a first draft of a paper!

23 more days til the end of the semester!

thanks for your support--thanks to it and other coping mechanisms I'm getting
through!

gave letters to boss and co_TA yest., haven't heard anything yet; will ask them
what they throught if I don't hear anything.

Bron
From: Bede_Jarrow@hikssrv.lib.purdue.edu (Bron)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: clarification
Date: 15 Apr 92 20:41:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.45628
Reply-To: Bede_Jarrow@hikssrv.lib.purdue.edu (Bron)

I feel the need to clarify a recent post I made last week.  My letter to my
perp-boss was _never_ sent or shown to him.  It was simply my way of letting
out anger.  I had forgotten to mention that this was an unsent letter, and
didn't think anyone would think that I had sent it, but some people did.  I'd
never send or show him anything like that--that'd be cutting my own throat.

An update:  my boss and I have not discussed the situation.  However, I have
noticed an easing of tensions on both our parts.  The other TA still is not
speaking to me, but I feel more at peace about it.  Thanks everyone for your
support during this difficult week.

I have one paper completely done, one done except for revisions, and one
started (due next week).  And I'm actually reading for my thesis!!!

I'm not sure what I will do after graduation in August but I'm really trying to
listen to myself and what my intuition is telling me.  I'm feeling more and
more that I am scared about getting into another hectic, abusive poistion. 
What I might do is take a month or two off and travel.  There is a possibility
of a job here but I really would like to move West.  It's scary but I can do
it!

I said goodbye to my doctor today.  I saw her for a chronic illness for 1 1/2
years.  I felt at times that she emotionally abused me--invalidating my
feelings, inapprorpriate teasing, rubbing it in that I have a lot of insurance
claims.  I never told her about my feelings, although today when she made the
crack about the insurance I said "There are a lot of other people who have
higher claims than I do."  She agreed and said I _had_ avoided hospitalization
and really I wasn't that expensive.  She also said she felt I would be a
success and that I had surmounted a lot of challenges here--that felt good to
hear.  I'm glad we ended on a positive note.  I did thank her for the medical
help she's given me.  I got all the drugs I need for 6 months, but will see a
doctor at the campus facility if needed over the summer.

I will be leaving my therapist in 2 weeks as the center where I go has a
session limit which we've passed.  I'm trying to hook up with another therapist
on campus and have some names.  It will be hard to say good-bye to Susan--we've
done so much in the two years I saw her.  This month is a month of goodbyes. 
I'm glad that we are planning this--I will write her a goodbye letter and my
new therapist a hello letter and Susan and I will work through closure our last
2 sessions.  I found out today too that my student insurance will cover the
counseling for this summer!

Well, that's where I'm at--16 more days til the end of semester and 109 in my
grad career!

Thanks for reading,
Bron
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: RE: my first post
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:22:26 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, asar.321@wpi.wpi.edu (Uffah) wrote:
>I've lurked for awhile, but hesitated to post because of the flame war that
>has gone on in the recent past.

I was hoping that wouldn't happen.

>It also seems like it wasn't safe to admit
>to a belief in God. But I'm going to chance it anyways. 

I don't think so.  Everyone has their deeply held beliefs, and those should
be valued.  I think the line gets crossed when people advocate what others
should think.  That line may have been crossed periodically, but I'm not
sure.  I hope you feel confident of your beliefs to stay with us.

>I carry around alot of shame over both my abuse and over the fact that I'm
>a transsexual.

There is a wide variety of stages of transsexualism (by that I mean
pre-operative, undergoing hormone therapy, post-operative, etc.), that
I do not know what to say to this.  Like everyone else, I hope you get
over that shame.  No one should be ashamed of who they are.  Welcome to
the meltimg pot of asar.

>It is scary posting to an unmoderated group, and I'm feeling vulnerable
>right now.

I hope you are feeling better.  There is a mailing list for transsexuals.
If you do not participate in it, and want the information, I can post
it for you.

Good luck.

                                                                        __
    Sim David Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3338.span@sdsc.edu \/
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bob@reed.edu (Robert Ankeney)
Subject: Re: Child/schizm
Organization: Reed College, Portland OR
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 16:19:18 GMT
Distribution: alt

In article <1992Apr17.125037.12503@hubcap.clemson.edu> gberger@hubcap.clemson.edu (gary l berger) writes:
>
>
>Thanks for the reply.  You know, there are times when I can identify the
>two aspects of myself.  Other times I can't.  Sometimes I'm just a blur.  In
>fact, as time goes on, I don't know who I am.  I find and see myself doing
>things that just blow me away.  I validate all of my feelings.  I mean, 
>everything I feel, I give full credence as if it where real.  The trouble is
>most of my emotions don't have anything to do with reality.  So, I will respond
>to someone from my emotional world.  They end up wondering what the heck is 
>wrong with me.  I know that I have to acknowledge these feelings.  However,
>I need to be able to "bounce them off" of reality.  This is a skill that I 
>seem to lack.  If I feel it, its real.  
>
>I think integration may involve, (correct me if I'm wrong), being able to 
>ackowledge and hear those feelings while staying in touch with reality.  
>Thats just it.  When I hear my feelings they are so loud that they are 
>reality.  I cannot seem to remove myself from them.  Maybe this act of 
>trying to remove myself from them is the schizm.  Thoughts, please.
>
>
     I'm not sure just how to respond to this except by saying I know just
what you are feeling.  It's been so hard for me to seperate out my feelings
from what happened so long ago from the present.  I've been working on just
this lately.  Trying to recognise when I have these feelings that they are
from the past and not the present.  They seem so real and now and present.
I can only assume that with practice I'll get better at it.  Actually I
think I am, it's just rare for me to give myself credit for progress most
of the time :-(.  One thing that I think has helped is having a partner who
recognises the signs and asks me.  Then I can stop and take a look at my
feelings and go "Oh, yeah!  Those are feelings from my past!" and kind of
seperate them out.  So I'm now getting better at recognising the signs by
myself.  And I think it helps bring me back to the now when I can.

     Good luck,
     Robert



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Ankeney                 | "Yield and overcome.                |
...!tektronix!reed!bob         |  Bend and be straight.              |
...!tektronix!bob@reed.EDU     |  Empty and be full."    - Lao Tzu   |
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: gberger@hubcap.clemson.edu (gary l berger)
Subject: Re: Child/schizm
Organization: Clemson University
Distribution: alt
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 12:50:37 GMT



Thanks for the reply.  You know, there are times when I can identify the
two aspects of myself.  Other times I can't.  Sometimes I'm just a blur.  In
fact, as time goes on, I don't know who I am.  I find and see myself doing
things that just blow me away.  I validate all of my feelings.  I mean, 
everything I feel, I give full credence as if it where real.  The trouble is
most of my emotions don't have anything to do with reality.  So, I will respond
to someone from my emotional world.  They end up wondering what the heck is 
wrong with me.  I know that I have to acknowledge these feelings.  However,
I need to be able to "bounce them off" of reality.  This is a skill that I 
seem to lack.  If I feel it, its real.  

I think integration may involve, (correct me if I'm wrong), being able to 
ackowledge and hear those feelings while staying in touch with reality.  
Thats just it.  When I hear my feelings they are so loud that they are 
reality.  I cannot seem to remove myself from them.  Maybe this act of 
trying to remove myself from them is the schizm.  Thoughts, please.

.


Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: fay@wpi.WPI.EDU (Peter R Fay)
Subject: Re: Thank You for the Advice/Update
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 19:30:08 GMT


On 10 Apr 92 14:28:45 GMT,
bouchard@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Hilary ) said:
bouchard> *right* one.  Is it standard practice to prescribe
bouchard> antidepressant drugs to incest/rape victims on the first
bouchard> visit, without a complete psych. profile, and/or complaints
bouchard> of depression?  All three of us refused the prescriptions
bouchard> because we feel uncomfortable using drugs as a solution for
bouchard> our insecurities and tendencies toward self-destructive
bouchard> behavior.  I don`t believe that any of us are what could be
bouchard> termed clinically depressed or suicidal.

No, it's not standard practice to prescribe without a complete psych
profile.  First of all, only an MD (e.g. psychiatrist) can prescribe,
and shouldn't do so without an in-depth evaluation to be certain it is
really depression, and only depression not related to any other
medical problems.  Secondly, different people need different types of
anti-depressants, so that also requires some investigation and
discussion *with you*.  Thirdly, especially for survivors,
antidepressants have a nasty habit of disinhibiting our already
self-destructive and suicidal ideas.  This should be thoroughly
discussed before being given an anti-depressant, though few doctors do
this.  Sounds like you were left out in the cold on your treatment,
and you have the right to go back and get a good long explanation and
discussion if you want.

bouchard> P.S. Does anyone know the Statute of Limitations of minor
bouchard> rape in Massachusetts that is effective and retro-active
bouchard> now, or was in effect in 1986?

The statute of limitations for criminal violations can extend up to
age 26 for the victim in Massachusetts (depending on circumstances).
The statute for civil violations (suing for monetary damages) can
extend up to three years after the date you remember the event or have
reasonable knowlege that it happened and what it meant.  You need to
talk to an attorney for the exact details.  Two who have lots of
experience in this:

Roderick MacLeish	Boston
Larry Hardoon		Boston (617) 723-8000 (you can ask him for
			MacLeish's number too).

MacLeish had quite a few cases where he won 6 and 7-figure awards for
survivors.  He's a good guy.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~        Peter Fay        (fay@wpi.wpi.edu)                      ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: asar.309@wpi.wpi.edu  
Subject:  Thanks for the advice...
Followup-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
X-Aps2-Version: 2.1
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service @ WPI
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 03:39:53 GMT

To everyone who gave me their 2 cents worth - THANKS!

I'm going to try to do a juggling act and take care of my life first and try to be friends second.  I almost think it would be a good thing for me to date other people because it would get rid of that pressure in our relationship.

Anyway, thanks for the help...

Mike

--
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From: 00rmosadczuk@bsu-ucs.uucp
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Looking for advice...
Date: 17 Apr 92 04:43:07 GMT
Followup-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery

In article <1992Apr12.180241.23099@wpi.WPI.EDU>, asar.188@wpi.wpi.edu writes:
>> Mike writes
 
[Some stuff deleted]

>>...Anyway, with her trying to go out with other people I'm starting to think 
>>it would be a good time to step out of the picture.  I guess at least in some 
>>way I remind her of a past that she wants to forget.  
>>
> I wouldn't say your a past she wants to forget.  -Especially since she talks
> shoulders.  Maybe she loves you too much to hurt you; so in her own strange 
> way
> she's letting go...
Well, I don't know alot about the rest of this post, but I do know some on th

>>ll, I don't know much about the rest of this post, but I do know some on this
topic..  Well at least I know what I say and do.  With my current and [ast SOs
I have always been the same way, sacrifice myself so that they can be happy,
over and over again, and I have always meant it.  But yet I have always hoped
that they would not take me up on the offer...  

Just a thought....


[More deleted stuff]

> Good Luck on whatever you decide
>>
>>
> You're Welcome!
>                                        - B.A.K.
> 

Hey, anytime!

Ladyhawke
From: csz55@seq1.keele.ac.uk (Christopher Wrigley)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Everyone please read this
Date: 10 Apr 92 13:28:14 GMT
Organization: University of Keele, England



I feel so wicked, I almost want to dig a huge deep hole a bury myself in
it. I am slowly (too slow) getting the message that people are getting
an impression that I am advocating adult sexual activity with children.
  PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do  *NOT*  think this. I now _know what the 
problem is, it is our definition of paedophilia.... God knows, I've
received enough hints.

Rather than bury my head in the sand, I will endeavour to amend my
"status" in this group. (If I have any left!!)  I bid you to watch out
for a post entitled "Definition of paedophilia" where I intend to cite
my interpretation of the word.  Once again....

I AM *NOT* ADVOCATING ADULT/CHILD SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS....

I am so sorry I created that impression, if I did.

		Chris

PS. I also understand I am missing quite a few posts, Matt and I have
been in contact via email and he has mailed to me, copies of recent
posts cited on this topic, some addressed to me that were never received
at this site!

PLEASE, PLEASE set your distribution for 'world', if you respond to a
post that has it's distribution set to 'US', it will NOT GET TO ME!
__
Christopher Wrigley
                                 "Words are sometimes used to conceal
University of Keele, England        rather than reveal one's feelings."
JANET - csz55@uk.ac.keele.
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: gery@midway.uchicago.edu (Black Pearl)
Subject: Re: On (un)controlled Prisoners'
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 16:40:13 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.031558.14602@wpi.wpi.edu>, Prisoner writes:
> 
>.... proves the statement false....
> 
> ....That is true....
> 
> ....(OK, I exaggerate. A little)....
> 
> ....Because of the imprecision of what you have written....
> what I do know is that you are presenting an assertion
> that is bogus....
> 
> ....Altruism is vicious....
> 
> ....I reject the supposition ....
> 
> ....as any competent philosopher will tell you....
> 
> ....The correct term is ....
> 
> ....Another thing I disagree with, but to explain why I'd have
> to go far afield into epistemology, so I'll just say so and
> leave it at that....
> 
> .... The way you put it sounds like it supposes a sort of Platonic set of
> ideal paths which the grungy old real world mostly keeps us
> out of....
> 
> .... I'll also add that I consider ordinary words with
> capital letters to be like dog turds: something to watch for
> and step carefully over....
> 
> ....I disagree....
> 
> ....There is no such thing as empirical in the sense that that
> word is typically used and as I suspect you are using it....
> 
> ....I don't know if you are aware of this, but most of your
> thinking seems dominated ....
> 
> ....In any case, I disagree with what you say....
>
> ....These make nonsense of the notion ....
> 
> .... I reject that sort of argument....
> 
> ....That idea is out and out evil....

Not so bad on the harsh-and-offensive scale, but still pretty high on
the arrogant-and-condescending scale! :-)

Black Pearl