HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tamada@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael K. Tamada)
Subject: Re: *All Star Game 1993*
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 23:46:08 GMT

In article <OLIVER.93Jan9124724@ballard1.mit.edu> oliver@athena.mit.edu (James D. Oliver III) writes:

>Here's my ballot (starters listed on first line):
>
>WEST 
>
>F: Charles Barkley, Karl Malone
>	Chris Mullin, Cliff Robinson, Sean Elliott, Danny Manning
>C: Hakeem Olajuwon
>	David Robinson
>G: John Stockton, Tim Hardaway
>	Gary Payton, Mitch Richmond
>
>tough omissions:  Shawn Kemp, Dan Majerle, Dikembe Mutombo, Jeff Malone
>
>EAST
>
>F: Dennis Rodman, Detlef Schrempf
>	Scottie Pippen, Larry Johnson, Harvey Grant
>C: Patrick Ewing
>	Shaquille O'Neal, Brad Daugherty
>G: Michael Jordan, Joe Dumars
>	Mark Price, Drazen Petrovic
>
>tough omissions:  Larry Nance, Alonzo Mourning, Nick Anderson, Dennis
>Scott, Jeff Hornacek, Rony Seikaly

     At last, an All-star ballot from someone who's actually been
following the NBA this season, instead of automatically putting
in names like Worthy and Drexler.  I like the lists.  Beef:  I'd 
even as a Sonics fan, I'm not 100% sure if I'd pick Payton, though
he certainly deserves consideration.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  |__	       o
  | W			   Mike Tamada
		  |\	   Institutional Research Office
		   \O	   Occidental College
		    |      tamada@oxy.edu
		   /|
		  | |

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: wgr@rti.rti.org
Subject: Re: Culture comes to USENET (was Re: Jordan & Pippen: No Olympics)
Organization: Research Triangle Institute, RTP, NC
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 93 16:09:08 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.162431.7684@pdn.paradyne.com> vince@paradyne.com (Vince Ciletti) writes:
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Jordan, Pippen or any of the
>olympians playing heavy minutes throughout the games. Also, didn't Jordan
>take off most of the pre-season to "recover" from the Olympics?  

You seem to be forgetting that *all* the Dream Teamers said that their
practices were very demanding and intense.  The effort required during
the Olympic tournament games was negligible, I'm sure.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: koehnema@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Harry Koehnemann)
Subject: Re: Protesting NBA Games
Followup-To: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Reply-To: koehnema@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Harry Koehnemann)
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 20:20:50 GMT

In article <C0r8s7.K92@inews.Intel.COM> gbennett@frx730.intel.com (gbennett) writes:
>In article <1iuuhvINNbbf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> as232@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Lerner) writes:
>>
>>Sure, the 6-man no-call was at the end of the game.  I think it was a good
>>no-call, but it should stand regardless.

Sorry, but ref's don't get paid to think.  THere are rules to follow and
they enforce them if you want to keep your job.

>  [Threat not called for a trippiing foul at end of game]
>This is
>yet another example of the refs looking at the uniforms and deciding whether
>or not to blow a whistle.  In others words, the refs threw out the rulebook and
>decided the Lakers would win the game just because they are the LOS ANGELES
>LAKERS.

This is different.  A foul is a judgement call - some are good, some are bad
and you can't protest them.  The Suns are protesting the interpretation of
the rules.  It's very clear from the rules that a T should have been called.
None was, hence the protest.  I wish you all could have seen the tape.  J.R.
Reid (the guy taken off so that they now have 5) comes walking off like
"holy shit this is gonna cost us the game...".

Suns play Seattle tonight - #1 vs. #2 in the NBA.  KJ's back (but hasn't
practiced in a week) and it should be a great game.
--
Harry Koehnemann
enuxha.eas.asu.edu
From: jscott@micom.com (James Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Nellie is a JEE-NYOUS!
Date: 8 Jan 93 18:54:50 GMT
Organization: yo-yo dyne propulsion

oliver@athena.mit.edu (James D. Oliver III) writes:
||> 
||> Get the picture?  The Warriors have been gooning it up all game long on
||> Robinson without calls, but when Don Nelson *wants* the refs to call fouls,
||> he simply tells them to blow the whistle every time they do this daintly
||> little dance with Larry Smith, and they go along with it. Meanwhile,
||> Robinson is *still* getting pounded on every play.  Unbelievable.  

terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU (Terry Wong) responds:
|> Your account makes the Warriors appear to be a bunch of goons.  The
|> The opposite is truly true.  They are the guys who are usually man-
|> handled physically, especially with the help of the NBA low-post rules
|> which give an unfair advantage to the offense.

imho, while the individual warrior *big men* may be capable of playing
in a non-goonish fashion, their method of defending against robinson is
the most clear display of goonery i've seen since the old kermit washington/
mo lucas wars.

note: this should not be construed as a whine ... the warriors are merely
      resorting to their only viable means of dealing with robinson.  any
      beef i would have would be with the refs, not the warriors methods.

disclaimer: i am a die-hard spur fan.

james
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: wgr@rti.rti.org
Subject: Re: Slam Dunk Contestants
Organization: Research Triangle Institute, RTP, NC
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 17:39:08 GMT

In article <siwasaki.726771427@unix1.tcd.ie> siwasaki@unix1.tcd.ie (simon iwasaki) writes:
>Also where's Craig Hodges??
>Can someone complete in 3-pt competition if they are not on an NBA
>roster,even if they are the current champion??

This is a great idea.  The NBA should invite Hodges to defend his 3-point
crown even though he's no longer in the league.  After all, they invited
that player from the Soviet team (can't remember if he's Lithuanian or
Russian) a few years back.  What's his name -- Kurtinitis or something
like that?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: matthew@base.cs.ucla.edu (Matthew Merzbacher)
Subject: Re: Rating Schedule Strength by Days of Rest
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Distribution: na
Date: 13 Jan 93 00:55:54 GMT

scottb@ppc-a.isc-br.com (SCOTT BURRINGTON) writes:

>I was wondering whether any teams had a schedule advantage by
>having more games versus teams who are playing the second of
>a pair of back-to-back games, so I took some code from the
>nba.c program and made a few tables.

Fascinating.  Really nice summary.

>Team              0   1   2   3   4   5   6   Tot.
>====================================================
>LA Lakers    :   30  38  10   3   1   0   0    71
>Orlando      :   15  42  18   3   4   0   0   103

Note that the big advantage the Lakers have over the Magic is in teams 
playing the second half of back-to-back games against them (vs. 2 days
rest).  Must be something in how the NBA schedules West Coast swings
vs. Florida trips, or something.
--

Matthew Merzbacher	ARPA:	matthew@CS.UCLA.EDU
Moo - Moo Moo  		UUCP:	...!{uunet|rutgers|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!matthew
               		This time, *with* the oys
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Subject: Frivolous encomium to #34 (was: INSIDE SPORTS poll: best players by position)
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:54:51 GMT

In article <1ilfl6INNdec@sumax.seattleu.edu> davidy@sumax.seattleu.edu (Stimpson J. Cat) writes:
			.
			.
			.
>************** stuff on Inside Sports top 10 list deleted ****************
>
>>
>>didn't make the list.  If it were "media attention/hype" based, you WOULD
>>have seen Payton, Strickland, and Dee Brown on the list...  
>
>
>	I can't say Gary Payton gets much media attention/hype at all. Maybe
>WALTER Payton... but if Gary Payton gets any publicity at all, it's negative
And Sweetness deserve that media attention, as
my colleague Mr.  Yee doubtless intended to
point out.  His three-point percentage isn't
impressive, but his drives to the hoop make
Roonie look like a powder-puff.

Seriously, I agree; what *do* people expect of
Gary Payton?  His game has matured to be about
everything Seattle can use, from what I read.
			.
			.
			.
-- 

Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)	+1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)  	+1 713 996 8546
From: kompella@cs.ucsd.edu (Vachaspathi Kompella)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Lakers are in Trouble
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:44:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: sdcc12.43074
Organization: CSE Dept., UC San Diego


In article <1iao6vINNf4r@leela.CS.ORST.EDU>, chrisda@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (David Christensen) writes:
|> In article <1992Dec29.132844.42@pasadena-dc.bofa.com>, centeno@pasadena-dc.bofa.com (R. CENTENO) writes:
|> > 
|> > I'm thiking Vlade, Worthy, and Scott for Hakeem and draft pic(s).
|> >
|> 
|> Whoo!  You Laker fans are pretty generous in the trades you'd make, huh?
|> Why not throw in Jack Haley while you're at it... and... Hey! Doesn't Mike
|> Smrek still play somewhere?
|> 
|> How about Vlade,Scott,Jack Haley and Mike Smrek for Hakeem,Otis Thorpe and
|> soem draft picks?  Now that'd be a good trade!
|> 
|> David

Yo!  You want Haley?  You got him.

-Vach
From: neuharth@shelley.u.washington.edu (John Neuharth)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Eddie Johnson and Benoit Benjamin (was Re: Doug Christie)
Date: 11 Jan 1993 00:10:16 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: shelley.u.washington.edu

In article <1993Jan10.233647.24126@cheshire.oxy.edu> tamada@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael K. Tamada) writes:
>In article <1im86gINNlo0@sumax.seattleu.edu> davidy@sumax.seattleu.edu (Stimpson J. Cat) writes:

>     It was the Portland playoff series two years ago that revealed this to 
>me; I'd never watched EJ closely when he was with KC and Phoenix so I
>didn't know too much about him.  The Sonics surprised everyone 
>by taking the Blazers to the limit, and most of the games 
>were close.  I think it was EJ more than anyone who kept the series close;

I agree!  EJ kept the Sonics in it.

>he was hot and when he's hot, no one, not even the Blazers, is going to
>stop him.  (Pierce, in my recollection, had a poor series.)
>
>>Still, with regard to Benjamin, my feeling is if Portland can find
>>27 minutes a game for Kevin Duckworth, Seattle can find 20-25 minutes for
>>Benjamin. If you've seen some of his boxscores the last few weeks, (not counting
>>the ones he was out with injury) the minute totals are ridiculous - 7 minutes
>>against the T-Wolves, 5 minutes against Golden State. Whatever one thinks of
>>Benjamin's skills, that seems awfully low to me.
>
>     One difference though between Portland and Seattle is that Portland
>doesn't have a lot of choice in playing Duckworth.  Cliff Robinson and I
>imagine Buck Wiliams see some time at center, but even between the two
>of them the Blazers need someone else to play some major minutes at center.
>So they play Duckworth.  The Sonics have the luxury of having Cage and 
>Kemp around to play the middle, even though neither of them are true 
>centers they can do the job; and the Sonics still have McKey, EJ, and
>Askew to man the forward positions.

I honestly don't see your point.  I would say that Portland and Seattle are
in very similar situations, actually.  Robinson and Williams see a lot of time
at center, and so I'm not sure what the difference is.  I'd say that the 
Blazers and Sonics have similar depth around the hoop.

>    On the other hand I agree with David Yee that it seems that the
>Sonics could use Benjamin more.  

No kidding!

>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  |__	       o
>  | W			   Mike Tamada
>		  |\	   Institutional Research Office
>		   \O	   Occidental College
>		    |      tamada@oxy.edu
>		   /|
>		  | |


-John Neuharth

neuharth@u.washington.edu
From: bloom@inland.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Paxson sucks (was Re: Phoenix is absolutely scary...)
Date: 6 Jan 93 13:51:01 CST
Followup-To: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Distribution: na
Organization: Inland Steel Company; East Chicago, IN

In article <1993Jan4.233105.19178@ennews.eas.asu.edu>, koehnema@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Harry Koehnemann) writes:
> 
> So, what are we arguing about?  The rest of the Bulls (minus maybe Pippen)
> are a bunch of average players.  End of discussion.  

What's the maybe about Pippen?  Chuck Daly has said that Jordan and 
Pippen are 2 of the best 5 players in the NBA.  Other NBA coaches, 
not with Chicago, have been quoted as saying they are #1 & #2 in the 
NBA.  Now tell me Horace Grant is average.  He is leading the league 
in offensive rebounds.  I'll give you the average about Cartwright 
and Paxson.  Unfortunately, Paxson has been playing below average. 
He's been missing open shots.  When he hits these shots, his 
defender can no longer double Jordan or Pippen.  It opens up the 
lane for penetration.  This results in more free-throws etc.  To 
compound the woes, Pippen is playing in some pain.  Still the 
Bulls have the 2nd best record in the league, so Chicago fans 
are not really all that worried.  


> Therefore, claiming
> that the Bulls current "slump" is because Paxon is injured (the reason all
> this shit got started) is bullshit.  They're not playing up to potential
> because they don't have that focus they had in the past and Jordan and
> Scotty "I want my own team and my own identity" Pippen are unhappy, for
> whatever reason.  Jordan comes around, they win another title.  Jordan
> doesn't, it's up for grabs this year (and therefore a good year for the
> Suns to be playing well).

Is Barkely carrying too much weight for the playoffs?  I got a feeling 
he's going to run out of gas in the tough playoff schedules.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith)
Subject: Re: Lakers are in Trouble
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 18:27:57 GMT

In article <1iaocrINNhaq@news.aero.org> robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger) writes:
>In article <1993Jan4.151039.45@pasadena-dc.bofa.com> centeno@pasadena-dc.bofa.com (R. CENTENO) writes:
>|
>|...[]....  Somebody please let Jerry West know that I'm
>|NOT pleased so far...and to do something about it soon!!!
>
>Beautifully stated. Change *one word*, and it would be diminished. You've
>captured the essence of our plight.....
>
>				R.S.

welcome to the club.  i dont imagine the fans of the rest of the league
are shedding a tear for either the celtics or the lakers.  the lakers
are following the path of the celtics a few years behind.  west is
expected to save the franchise in much the same way that auerbach was
expected to save the boston franchise.  with 27 out of 46 titles between
them - despite being a celtic fan myself - i dont see anything wrong with
some of the other teams getting to the top.

infact, right now, fans of teams other than LAL, Bos and Chi wont be
shedding too many tears if Phoenix gets to go all the way.

and so it goes....

- nate, who wouldnt mind Cleveland either
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: beegle@ftp.phy.uab.edu (BadSpeller!)
Subject: BOXSCORE
Organization: University of Alabama at Birmingham
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:36:58 GMT

This is a public service for all those of us who, although we know
some people like reading about boxscores, we read in our local papers.

If you type K now it should automaticly kill all future boxscores on
this news group. I just don't have the time to go through and kill them
all my self.


-- 
Luke

	"I don't feel so good."	
				Last words of Luther Burbank
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: randyc@tvnews.tv.tek.com (Randall Cornwell)
Subject: Re: Suns file protest in San Antonio loss
Organization: Tektronix TV Products
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:15:37 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.182900.11308@ennews.eas.asu.edu> koehnema@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Harry Koehnemann) writes:

          Stuff deleted ...

>Phoenix filed the complaint and SA has responded saying the refs didn't give
>them enough time to get their guys on the court.  The league could use that
>as the excuse for allowing the refs to violate the NBA rules.  From the tapes
>you can see that's bullshit.  Everyone's that's on the court thinks their
>supposed to be there - no one's making their way back to the bench.  Then
>again, maybe I'm a little biased.

I heard that the NBA was not going to overturn the REFs call for the following
reason:  Rule is for a technical to be called, the ball MUST be inbounded.
This is what was stated during halftime of the TNT game on Friday Night.
Did anyone else here this?
>--
>Harry Koehnemann
>enuxha.eas.asu.edu


-- 
 /---------------- Tektronix --------------------------------------------\
|------------------------ /randyc@tv.tv.tek.com --------------------------|
|-------------------- Randy Cornwell (503) 627-4475 ----------------------|
 \The child has grown, The dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb./
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: mark@tc.fluke.COM (Mark D. Nagel)
Subject: Re: Life after LA (was: Alaa is playing in Boston!!!)
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 21:04:55 GMT

In <C0HLnA.66w@NeoSoft.com> claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird) writes:

>Mychal is a broadcaster now?  He seemed like an
>honorable fellow; how's he doing in his new life?

Not sure how is life is, but he's doing a really good job with his part time
announcing for the Sonics: Splits the duty with Jack Sikma and Wally Walker.
-- 
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Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: tamada@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael K. Tamada)
Subject: Re: Manning trade rumor questions
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:56:46 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.182237.4361@athena.mit.edu> mittman1@athena.mit.edu (Christopher T Chiu) writes:

>There are reports that Danny Manning wants to be traded.  I'm curious about
>three things:
>
>1. How true are the rumors?

     Two days ago it was big news, Manning was saying that he couldn't
take Brown anymore and wanted out.  Then yesterday, after the Clippers won
a game, he took it all back and said that he might stay with the Clippers
after all.
     Looks like Manning has caught Brown-itis: inability to decide what
he wants to do.

>2. What is the scouting report on Manning?

    All-star quality multi-talented forward.  Mediocre rebounding,
okay defense, can do everything on offense.  6'10" and can handle the
ball.  Similar players:  Derrick McKey, Detlef Schrempf, Charles Smith.
Better ball-handling than all of them except maybe McKey.  Not as good
at rebounding as Schrempf or Smith.  Not as many blocked shots as
Smith.  Better shooting range than any of them except McKey.  Can 
play either forward position, but like McKey is more of a small forward
whereas Schrempf and Smith are more power forwards.  Should be a
lock to make All-star game and has potential to become All-pro.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  |__	       o
  | W			   Mike Tamada
		  |\	   Institutional Research Office
		   \O	   Occidental College
		    |      tamada@oxy.edu
		   /|
		  | |
From: n9041679@henson.cc.wwu.edu (brian h. harper)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: INSIDE SPORTS poll: best players by
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:46:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1993Jan7.234650.13301
Organization: Western Washington University

gsd@unislc.uucp (Greg Dodd) writes:

>Harry states:

>>This looks more like a list of player names based on how visible they are.

>Nice try but your wrong! look at the list again and you will see that 
>Stockton is the top PG, and Malone is the top PF.

>You know that they play for the Jazz, who happen to have the NBA's smallest 
>franchise market. So your arguement about visablity does have any ground to
>stand on.

Yes, his argument does. Franchise market size doesn't necessarily equal less
visability. Stockton and Malone have had plenty of visibility, mostly
because they are both great players. Previous all-star games, playoff
appearances, and, oh yeah, the Dream Team can all give a player high
visibility. To say Stockton and Malone aren't visible is ridiculous. This
poll is clearly not based on these players performances this year. The
biggest problem I see is the 7 votes Pooh Richardson got for PG, while Kenny
Anderson didn't get any. Kenny has run circles around Pooh this year. And
quit whining about few national television appearances. Seattle only has 2,
and they're playing on the same level as Utah. NBC has some options, though,
so we may see a couple more appearances for both teams.

>On the other hand the NBA must address these issues of getting the leagues
>best PF & PG increased exposure. It's a shame to know that the Jazz will
>only be on national TV 4 times all season.

No, they must not. They've had plenty of exposure. What the league must do
is sell its product, and that involves marketing the flashy players. Neither
Stockton or Malone is flashy. Jordan and Barkley are. Plus the Bulls are the
champs. Flashy players, stars, and champions get more viewers and audiences
than good teams and good match-ups. Both Seatte and Utah will ge their
exposure in the playoffs, where it counts.

-Brian Harper
n9041679@henson.cc.wwu.edu


>Regards

>Greg
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: cs163wav@sdcc8.ucsd.edu (Anthony Minkoff)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Protest system unfair? (Re: Suns file protest in San Antonio loss)
Date: 13 Jan 93 02:18:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <C0r0o9.2xo.1@cs.cmu.edu>,
cokasaki+@CS.CMU.EDU (Chris Okasaki) writes:
>|> I wonder if the system ought to allow games to be protested even if
>|> the officials' error is in favor of the team that ultimately loses
>|> the game.
>
>So you deliberately pull some stunt that might be cause
>for a protest later.  You go on to lose, and then file a protest.

Well, this stunt wouldn't work, because a protest would have to be
based on an _officiating_ error, not some "stunt" pulled by one team
or the other.  If one team stars pulling "stunts," the officials are
supposed to deal with it right then and there.


Here's another idea for an possible improvement(?) to the protest
system:

When a team spots an officiating error that they feel is grounds for
protest, they must indicate their intention to protest immediately.
Then the other team has the opportunity to accept or refuse the
protest.  If they accept, the error is immediately rectified, and
the game continues.  If they refuse, then the game is played out,
and if the protesting team loses, they may file a protest with the
league.  If the Commissioner upholds the protest, the game is
replayed from the point of protest.

This system might remove a lot of the unfairness.  (It would also
save a lot of hassle, by allowing many protests to be resolved in
the "gentlemanly" way by the participants without any paperwork,
multi-week delays, or appealing to the league to intervene.)
     If you're playing, and the other team protests, and you
believe their protest is legitimate and will be upheld, it is in
your best interests to accept the protest immediately.  If you
refuse, you run the risk of losing tonight, and have nothing to
gain, since if you win it will be replayed anyway.
     If the other team makes a frivolous protest with no chance of
being upheld, of course you will refuse it, with nothing to lose.
     The trouble is, it's not obvious when it's in your best interests
to accept a protest that may or may not be upheld.  In this case,
maybe you just have to guess at the best course of action.  This is
an intrinsic part of gaming.

What do you think of this system?

Tony
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro