HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Smoke cigarettes -- leave early!
From: RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg)
Date: 23 Nov 92 07:44:23 EDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Philosophy Dept., Wesleyan University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20In-Reply-To: linden@positive.Eng.Sun.COM's message of 22 Nov 1992 23:55:08 GMTLines: 21

In <lh07esINN493@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> linden@positive.Eng.Sun.COM writes:

> Many people have heard the old urban legend that
>    "every cigarette you smoke takes N days off your life".
> 
> Now obviously, that's a dramatic oversimplification.
> 
> But my question is, overlooking the flaws in the model, 
> what is the value of 'N'?    I.e. can we say that 365 ciggies a day
> takes 1 year off your life, so each cig is worth a day.  
> 
> Are there any numbers we could plug in that would make 
> this simplification somewhat meaningful in some way?

I'm sure any friendly local insurance underwriter would be happy to provide
such figures.  Why not ask your human resources dept to get the figure from
your co's insurance underwriter(s)?  They all have 'em...

------------------------
Ruth Ginzberg <rginzberg@eagle.wesleyan.edu>
Philosophy Department;Wesleyan University;USA
From: lunger@helix.enet.dec.com (Dave Lunger)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: TAXOL... what about it?
Date: 23 Nov 92 13:24:13 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


Anybody know about a drug called Taxol? I've heard very little about it,
and wanted to find out more about it for someone with both Stage II Breast
cancer and Stage II Lung cancer (non-small cell). This person has had
a lobectomy for the Lung cancer, and lumpectomy/radiation/Tamoxifin for
the breast cancer.

All I know about it is that its a recent drug that is helpful in
shrinking Cancer tumors.

Thanks in advance...
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: dan@cae.prds.cdx.mot.com (Dan Breslau)
Subject: Re: evidence for homeopathy - who pays?
Organization: none
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:41:34 GMT

bsimon@elvis.stsci.edu (Bernie Simon) writes:

> Homeopathic medicines
>currently in use cannot be patented.  Without patent protection, there
>is no incentive for any profit making company to test them.

Oh boy, is there ever incentive.  What percent of the drug market
do these companies have now?  Think how much greater a share they
could gain if they had hard scientific data to prove to the general
public that their products work.  Such convincing would be easier
if they could also show *how* these products work.

I'm waiting...

Dan Breslau
dan@codex.com
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: more ??'s re. psychiatric drugs
From: RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg)
Date: 20 Nov 92 07:33:16 EDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Philosophy Dept., Wesleyan University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20Lines: 36

A student of mine who is very bright & has been struggling with either chronic
or recurring depression for years (not sure which) recently told me that
her doctor now has her on Zoloft and Buspar.  She later mentioned that she
hadn't really slept or eaten (much) in the 2 weeks since she started on the
Zoloft, so she was on a kind of sleep-deprived "high".  She "assured" me that
the same thing had happened when she first started taking Prozac (I don't know
when, last year or something), but that if she just waited, she was sure her
body would calm down, as happened with the Prozac.

<um...not to second-guess her physician or anything, but...> I told her that
this did not sound within the normal range of minor side effects to me, & asked
her if she'd reported these effects to her doctor.  She kind of hemmed & hawed
about that, & it turns out that she kind of LIKES the "high" she's on, so she
doesn't really want to complain about it.

BTW, her self-reported subjective sense of it was v. interesting.  She kept
saying things like "I know it isn't REALLY me, its REALLY the drug -- but it
FEELS as though the state I'm in now is the real 'me' & I keep forgetting its
the drug."

I'm concerned because she seems to be using this sudden burst of energy as an
occasion for making a number of important life-decisions, which I think she is
rather ill-advised to make in this state.  Not to play "armchair doc" or
anything, but does it kinda sound like her current meds may have induced a
manic phase of what might be manic-depressive illness rather than simple
depression?

Next Question:  Since I'm neither a family member nor a health care provider, I
find the line between concern/support and "meddling in something thats none of
my business" to be very grey here.  I'd be interested in hearing from some of
the docs how THEY wish (ideally) someone in my position would respond if the
person in question were THEIR patient.

------------------------
Ruth Ginzberg <rginzberg@eagle.wesleyan.edu>
Philosophy Department;Wesleyan University;USA
Newsgroups: sci.med,sci.bio
From: gcouger@olesun.okstate.edu (Gordon Couger)
Subject: Re: Lymphocytes (or just immunoglobulins) in breast milk?
Organization: Oklahoma State University, Stillwater
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 02:35:30 GMT

In article <lgrql#g@lynx.unm.edu> bhjelle@carina.unm.edu () writes:
>In article <1992Nov22.221042.10787@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> sfm@manduca.neurobio.arizona.edu (Stephen Matheson) writes:

>Lymphocytes are found in low numbers in breast milk. Colostrum
>is particularly lymphocyte-rich, containing up to 10e6/ml.
>They are not known to perform any useful function when
>transferred to the infant, however. There is only partial
>MHC compatibility between mother and infant, and that might
>reduce the effectiveness of baby's antigen-presenting cells
>at presenting antigen to mom's lymphocytes.
>
>Brian

I am not sure about humans but I am certain that Colostrum in 
farm animals transfers immunity from the mother to the 
offspring. This can only happen during the first few hours after
birth before gut closure occurs. Until recently a calf that
was not able nurse its mother and get the colostrum was a dead
calf.  With the antibiotics available today it is possible to raise calves
that have not received colostrum from their mothers.

Gordon

A
A
A
A
A
A


Gordon Couger
AB5Dg   Agriculture Engineering Oklahoma State University
gcouger@olesun.agen.okstate.edu 405-744-6514 day 744-2794 evenings
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Summary of evidence for homeopathy
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:50:01 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <1992Nov16.170512.3418@island.COM> green@island.COM (Robert Greenstein) writes:

>It is not a question of fairness. It is a question of cost. Such trials 
>costs a tremendous amount of money. Where is it going to come from? Upjohn
>isn't going to pay for it. In an ideal world, clinical trials such as
>you propose would be great. But in this society, the allopaths control
>the pursestrings, so it ain't gonna happen.

Clinical trials can be done if the clinician donates his time,
the patients are not paid, and the drugs are not expensive.
I'm sure you'd find enough patients enthusiastic enough about
homeopathy to agree to the trials.  One drawback might be the
lack of scientific training on the part of the homeopath.  The
experiment would have to be designed so that a difference detected
would be valid, but given enough time and patients, I see no reason
that such a thing need cost megabucks.  The main expense for clinical
trials is salary support anyhow.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Prozac and alcohol
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 20:30:08 GMT

In article <By0KMD.E2v@world.std.com> rsilver@world.std.com (Richard Silver) writes:
>My wife is trying Prozac for mild depression. The physician said
>no alcohol and was quite adamant. My wife likes a daily glass of
>wine with dinner and asked the pharmacist. He said there is no
>problem mixing alcohol and Prozac. Would someone comment?
>Is there a risk mixing the drugs?
>

I can't imagine that a glass of wine with dinner would have much of
an interaction, if at all, with Prozac.  I think your doctor is being
somewhat conservative, unless there's some other reason she shouldn't
drink alcohol.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: gdavis@griffin.uvm.edu (Gary Davis)
Subject: Circumcision as mutilation
Keywords: mut
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:49:30 GMT

 Its always seemed odd to me that people apply a strange kind of
social relativity in judging rituals and customs.
If WE are not doing it than it may be both mutilation and appalling,
but if WE do it even if its feeding infants to volanoes,its just OK!

The average cost of the millions of infant circs done each year is
not an insignificant amount when one considers what else it might
have purchased such as child immunizations and nutritional programs
and pre-natal care for children.

The ear piercing ritual which I would not wish my daughter to do,
is at least done with HER consent. An infant male hardly has that
choice strapped down to a circumstraint. The procedure is ugly,
unneeded and disgusting! I bet few parents know what actually goes
on in the CIRC room!


--
I               Gary Davis Dpt. of Electrical Engineering
                University of Vermont
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: distef@carson.u.washington.edu (Sandra Distefano)
Subject: Re: SCIENCE FAIR
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:58:39 GMT

jrt@omega.kcr.uky.edu (J. Randall Thompson) writes:

>Why can't you use alcohol? I volunteered for a psychology experiment in college
>were I was given an un-godly amount of Vodka and then retested. The tests
>were conveniently scheduled for early friday and saturday nights - and it
>was free, too!

I suspect the original poster is under 21 years old. 
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: jrt@omega.kcr.uky.edu (J. Randall Thompson)
Subject: Re: SCIENCE FAIR
Organization: Kentucky Cancer Registry, Univ. of Ky
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:27:15 GMT

In article <1ego5dINNme4@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ai686@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ishaq Syed) writes:
>
>I am doing a ;science project on manual dexterity.  I am useing cafine
>as a stimulate but I need a depresent.  I plan on using the game TETRIS
>to test this.  By there score.  I can not use alchole..I need a saje, lawful
>depresent that I can use for this experiment.  If you have anything that might
>help me in this experiment please let me know.  If you know of anything
>I could add to this experiment please also notify me.  Please resopond as soon
>as possible.
>
>				Ishazq
>-- 
>           *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*
>           *_           ISHAQ SYED                            _*
>           *_           E-MAIL:ai686@cleveland.freenet.edu    _*
>           *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*


Why can't you use alcohol? I volunteered for a psychology experiment in college
were I was given an un-godly amount of Vodka and then retested. The tests
were conveniently scheduled for early friday and saturday nights - and it
was free, too!
-- 
[]  J. Randall Thompson                                      jrt@kcr.uky.edu []
[]  University of Kentucky, Lexington, Kentucky                              []
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: carl@aoa.aoa.utc.com (Carl Witthoft)
Subject: Re(buttal): homeopathy
Organization: Adaptive Optics Associates
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:34:40 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.091236.21641@netcom.com> kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski) writes:
>It looks like homeopathy is coming back, though.  The number of
>practitioners was down to 100 by 1950, but now it's back up to
>2,000 to 3,000 MDs, NDs, and other licensed health care providers,
>and still growing.
x
Aside from the questionability of these numbers, I'd like to point
out that they have no demographic or scientific value unless compared
to other parameters such as the total number of health-care
professionals or the total population.
It's also very hard to separate vectors such as the validity of
homeopathic care (yeah right) from things like fear of AIDS,
possible increases in anti-establishment sentiments, cultural
evolution, etc.
Subject: Re: Evidence for homeopathy?
In article <1992Nov12.205429.5446@island.COM> green@island.COM (Robert Greenstein) writes:
>In this case it most certainly was a conspiracy. The AMA was founded in
>the late 19th century precisely because the homeopathic movement was
>growing, thus threatening the allopaths. 
x
Yeah. A conspiracy. Yeah, that's it.  And you knew it just the
way you proved there was a second key to the strawberries.
Spare us.
>The AMA would have liked to do the same thing to the chiropractors, but 
>the little matter of the anti-trust judgement against them put a stop
>to it.
x
Aside from the fact that the legal decision was made by a jackass,
what in the world do legal decisions about business climate and
competetion have to do with scientific validity.  (I removed
the question mark from that sentence 'cause I'd hate to think of
the answers :=( )
Subject: Re: Ingredients in "Natural Relaxant"
In article <9211131708.AA20382@cs.utexas.edu> wmartin@STL-06SIMA.ARMY.MIL (Will Martin) writes:
>I have a bottle of "Natural Relaxant" pills from my chiropractor due to
>a back problem. I have used these same pills before. The major active
>ingredient is Valerian, a herb well-known for relaxing and tranquilizing
>effects for millennia. It also contains Passiflora, which I have to look
>up again in our herb books, but the reason I am posting is to ask about
>the third ingredient: Magnesium Carbonate.
x
Sheesh. And you wonder why I slammed the antitrust decision allowing
chiros to get insurance payments and "compete" with the "AMA."
At least this "Natural Relaxant" is nonhomeopathic :=) smirk snarl.

-- 
Carl Witthoft @ Adaptive Optics Associates
aoa!carl@bbn.com  carl@aoa.utc.com
54 CambridgePark Drive, Cambridge,MA 02140 617-864-0201
"My Karma just ran over my Dogma!"
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: dank@blacks.jpl.nasa.gov (Daniel R. Kegel)
Subject: Re: Summary of evidence for homeopathy
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 23:42:03 GMT

rollo@xylogics.com (Dena Rollo) writes:
>I have resisted getting involved in this discussion, simply because I don't 
>think most of the participants are capable of real discussion of anything 
>that conflicts with their very narrow vision.

It's a real problem- worse when everybody is an armchair philosopher
& unwilling to research the issue.
From: schira@ab.wvnet.edu (John Schira, PA-C)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Research project --->> HELP! <<---
Date: 15 Nov 92 06:58:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: ab.1992Nov15.115812.703
Organization: Alderson-Broaddus College

I am a physician assistant doing graduate work in Emergency Medicine. My
research thesis is on computer literacy and use among Emergency Department
physicians and physician assistants.

After a literature search I am unable to find any citations that detail 
actual computer literacy rates among this group, or among docs in general.

Are there any Medical-Netters out there who have any relevant information
or sources I could investigate?

Your input is MUCH appreciated. Thanks.

John Schira
schira@ab.wvnet.edu
From: cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Contact lenses and blood vessels in the eye!?
Date: 15 Nov 92 16:27:41 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <23904@suned1.Nswses.Navy.MIL> laura@TASVAX.NSWSES.NAVY.MIL writes:

>At high strengths, glasses become *very* uncomfortable.
>The weight is cumbersome, even with the new super thin lenses.

>There is a period of weeks of wear to get used to looking at
>everything curved (imagine your reflection on the back of a spoon).

These problems only occur if you want to follow the current fashion of
wearing big spectacles. Big lenses greatly increase the maximum
thickness of glass necessary. This adds weight in much more than in
proportion to the area, greatly increases the curvature effect at the
lens edges, plus the unpleasant "bottle-bottom" effect in very strong
lenses. Although I've never met anyone with worse short sight than
myself (4" max focus), and I insist on glass lenses, I've also never
met anyone with _lighter_ spectacles: the lenses are simply small,
about 1"x1.5" ellipses, which was as small as I could get -- I'd
prefer smaller.

These small lenses also give me better vision. There is no curvature
effect in my peripheral vision, since my peripheral vision simply
looks outside the lens. So I don't hit other cars when parking (a
characterisitic of people with big strong lenses), and am less likely
to misjudge my footing in rough terrain. I also feel safer, since the
extreme edges of my peripheral vision are not obscured by the edges of
my spectacle frames.

Big (heavy) lenses are purely cosmetic -- the extra spread of lens
doesn't give you any useful extra high definition vision, and it
severely screws up your peripheral depth perception. Big lenses are
the spectacle equivalent of high heels.
-- 
Chris Malcolm    cam@uk.ac.ed.aifh          +44 (0)31 650 3085
Department of Artificial Intelligence,    Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK                DoD #205
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: M20614@mwvm.mitre.org (Hugh Pritchard)
Subject: Re: Contact lenses and blood vessels in the eye!?
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 09:14:31 GMT

In article <28176@castle.ed.ac.uk>
cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) writes:
 
>In article <23904@suned1.Nswses.Navy.MIL> laura@TASVAX.NSWSES.NAVY.MIL writes:
>
>>At high strengths, glasses become *very* uncomfortable.
>>The weight is cumbersome, even with the new super thin lenses.
>
>These problems only occur if you want to follow the current fashion of
>wearing big spectacles. ...
>
>These small lenses also give me better vision. There is no curvature
>effect in my peripheral vision, since my peripheral vision simply
>looks outside the lens. ...
>
>Big (heavy) lenses are purely cosmetic -- the extra spread of lens
>doesn't give you any useful extra high definition vision, and it
>severely screws up your peripheral depth perception. Big lenses are
>the spectacle equivalent of high heels.
 
When I wore thick, bifocal cataract lenses (about +13 diopters strong),
I always got them as big as possible, because my peripheral vision outside
the lenses was non-existent -- it was useless even to glance to the side;
I had to turn my head and look straight on.  [When you've had your natural
lenses removed due to cataracts, you become, in effect, *very* far-
sighted, and nothing is ever in focus without some sort of artificial
lenses (glasses, contacts, or implants).]
 
So, I disagree with the view that people who get large-framed glasses
do so merely out of fashion-consciousness.
 
**  Hugh Pritchard,  hapritch@mitre.org,  703/883-6616
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: RFD Alternative Medicine - need definition
Date: 17 Nov 92 03:34:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Nov17.033415.12191
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Nov16.205552.6554@island.COM> green@island.COM (Robert Greenstein) writes:
>I think the real reason you proposed the alternative group is that
>you don't like controversy when it dares to challenge the party line.

Yeah--that's why we don't trust the flat earth society.  What a threat
to our world view.

>I think when people are presented with more than one viewpoint, they
>are intelligent enough to decide for themselves which is valid.

Well, you're a walking exception to THAT rule.

>They don't need you to shout "quack" whenever an alternative approach is
>suggested. 

Or you'd prefer not to hear it.  No one shouts quack _whenever_
an alternative approach is suggested.  However, if people rely on
superstition and fuzzy thought or just plain ignorance in choosing
such an "alternative", you can't expect much respect here.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: zornow@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Claudia Zornow)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:24:37 GMT
Subject: Re: Chicken Pox
Organization: HP SSD R & D
Newsgroups: sci.med

fzjaffe@othello.ucdavis.edu (Rory Jaffe) writes:

> chrisp@cs.uwa.oz.au (chris pudney) writes:
>
>> My girlfriend has just contracted chicken pox.  What can she do to speed her
>> recovery and minimise scarring?
>
> ...  Other than that, don't take aspirin! (chicken pox + aspirin
> supposedly increases the risk of Reye's syndrome).

Is this true of adults?  I thought it was only true for children.
In fact, I thought that aspirin was not recommended for children
no matter what virus they have because of the risk of Reye's.

Claudia
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Circumcisions as Medical Fraud
Keywords: circs
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:40:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Nov23.184040.6082
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

It's really hard to discuss this topic on sci.med; too many men are
still "attached" to the foreskins they had taken from them as infants. :-)

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Smoke cigarettes -- leave early!
Date: 22 Nov 92 21:51:40 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire

In article <lh07esINN493@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, linden@positive.Eng.Sun.COM (Trelford Pinkerton) writes:

> Many people have heard the old urban legend that
>    "every cigarette you smoke takes N days off your life".
> 
> Now obviously, that's a dramatic oversimplification.
> 
> But my question is, overlooking the flaws in the model, 
> what is the value of 'N'?    I.e. can we say that 365 ciggies a day
> takes 1 year off your life, so each cig is worth a day.  
> 
> Are there any numbers we could plug in that would make 
> this simplification somewhat meaningful in some way?

I don't remember what that figure is, but a related number which was 
published in JAMA a while back is that 1/3 to 1/2 of those who smoke die
from it.  This and the observation that cigarettes are more addicting
than heroin would make nice warning messages on cigarette packages.

David Nye
nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: RFD Alternative Medicine - need definition
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Date: 18 Nov 92 21:19:56 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <1992Nov16.164554.24623@microsoft.com> tomca@microsoft.com (Tom B. Carey) writes:

>interesting. Too often apologists for "alternative medicine" are
>not confronted by persons with a grounding in the scientific
>tradition, and are able to pass off a load of pseudo-scientific piffle
>to a credulous audience. The only time I've seen this kind of dialog
>is on sci.med, and I'll be sorry to see it go!

Well, I think Steve Dyer and Russ Turpin have not promised to
stay off the alternative group.  You well may still have this
sort of debunking going on.  I'm the only one who promised
to leave them alone if they went there.


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.med