From: zeleny@husc9.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,soc.culture.french
Subject: Re: Guns, and the necessity to trust our governement.
Keywords: guns and surrealism
Date: 22 Aug 92 17:01:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Aug22.130145.15014
Organization: The Phallogocentric Cabal

In article <1992Aug22.041005.17017@microsoft.com> 
marcmil@microsoft.com (Marc Milanini) writes:

MM:
>Hi there,
>
>Since this discussion is crossposted to soc.culture.french, I thought
>I could jump in.

>In article <1992Aug21.004135.24169@athena.mit.edu> 
>sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Rifleman) writes:

R:
>>Reality check: give an example of a fascist or tyrant advocating that
>>the common people be armed.  I'm waiting.

MM:
>The fascists usually say something like "Rely on yourself, not on the
>collectivity". This is exactly the same meaning as your arguments.

Surely you are mistaken: the very etymology of the word `fascism' implies
collectivity.  Explicit exhaltation of collective unity and collective
goals is central to all forms of fascistic ideologies, including, but not
limited to the Italian and the German variety.  This may include
glorification of national history, with its attendant expansionist and
revanchist ambitions, reliance on racial mythology of "blood and soil",
populist appeals to the lower middle classes, and so on.

x:
>>>And you are you to have the right to say that somebody must dye.
>>>Are you a god ??? are you better than me ???

R:
>>No, I am not a god.  However, I do have a right to protect my life against
>>those who would murder me unlawfully, and along with my right to life comes
>>the right to the most effective means of protecting myself.

MM:
>Sure you have this right. In France too, the right to self-defence is
>guaranteed. If someone assaults you to kill you, and if you happen to
>have a weapon, you have the right to defend yourself.
>
>However, the most effective means of protecting yourself does not
>imply the right to buy weapons freely. If you want to get an arm 
>for legal purposes, you should not mind a control on this purchase.
>
>If you allow honest citizens to buy any weapon they want, you also
>allow gangsters to do the same.

No comment.

R:
>>Come back when you've figured out the difference between vigilantism and
>>self-defense.

MM:
>In France too, you can buy revolvers. With control of course. Once you
>get a permit, you can carry your pistol at any time. But there is no
>way to buy a semi-automatic rifle, and have it transformed to fully
>automatic by someone just on the other side of the street. This makes 
>sense to us.

Well, all this brouhaha started after I politely inquired about the permit
requirements.  As for paramilitary semiautomatic rifles, I have seen them
advertised in French arms magazines, the sole difference being their
chambering in a non-military caliber, like .243 Winchester or .300 Savage.

MM:
>You know, you don't need a Uzi machine gun (like the ones for which
>you can find ads here in the USA) to protect yourself.

No comment.

>-- 
>=---K8>>@@@@@@@@ Marc Milanini @@@@ marcmil@microsoft.com @@@@%%

cordially,
mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
"Un de mes plus grands plaisirs est de jurer Dieu quand je bande."