HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: prking@silver.cs.umanitoba.ca (Peter King)
Subject: Simon Raven
Organization: Computer Science Dept., University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 03:08:16 GMT

I am wondering if anybody out there shares my interest in the 
British author Simon Raven's books. Annoyingly enough there are a 
couple of books in his second series, The First Born of Egypt which 
it seems quite impossible to find in my part of the world. If 
anybody has copies of any of the following that they might be 
willing to part with I would be interested in hearing from them:

1. Blood of My Bone

2. Troubadour

3. Friends in Low Places

4. The Rich Pay Late

5. Bird of Ill-Omen

6. Doctor's Wear Scarlet

Actually only the first two ane from the second series I mentioned -
- 3 and 4 are from his earlier Alms for Oblivion set, 5 is I believe 
autobiographical, and 6 is a separate book.

Does anybody have a lead on how I could get any of these? I would be 
glad of any help.

Peter King
prking@cs.UManitoba.ca


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: scasburn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven M Casburn)
Subject: Theodore Dreiser
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 23:07:31 GMT

     I have just finished reading _Sister Carrie_ for my lit class, and it was 
a much, *much* better book than I had been told to expect. Dreiser's
description of the decline of Hurstwood is, in my experience, second only to
Bronte's description of the evil of Heathcliff as a piercing study of the dark 
side of human nature. Also, Dreiser's description of the changing relationship 
between Carrie and Hurstwood toward the end (the switch in the roles of 
provider and supplicant) was at least as well done as Steinbeck's description 
of how Ma and Pa Joad changed in _The Grapes of Wrath_.
     _Sister Carrie_ is a compelling, interesting book -- one of the best I 
have ever read. And yet I have never heard a kind word for Dreiser's writing.
Can someone explain why not?

                                        Steve
///
-- 
    Steve Casburn (scasburn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu)
    They gave me differential calculus, and I said "Hit me again"
    So they gave me integral calculus, and I said "Hit me again"
    Now I have vector calculus, and...I'm starting to lose consciousness...
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: sfysh@epas.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Moskal Fysh)
Subject: Re: Theodore Dreiser
Organization: University of Toronto - EPAS
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 14:10:27 GMT

In article <1992Nov7.230731.14816@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> scasburn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven M Casburn) writes:
>     _Sister Carrie_ is a compelling, interesting book -- one of the best I 
>have ever read. And yet I have never heard a kind word for Dreiser's writing.
>Can someone explain why not?

It's usually called naturalism (as distinct from realism).  It is
basically realism (everyday subject matter & use of detail) and then
some.  It is based on the assumption that "a person inherits personal
traits and compulsive instincts, especially hunger, the accumulative
drive, and sex, and is then subject to the social and economic forces
in the family, the class, and the milieu into which that person is
born" (Abrams).  It's usually considered to have been first developed
in the novel by Emile Zola.  Other naturalist writers are Frank
Norris, Stephen Crane and James Farrell.

I agree on your evaluation of _Sister Carrie_.  A very powerful novel.

Stephanie Fysh
Univ. of Toronto


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mem@mv.mv.com (Mark E. Mallett)
Subject: Re: A rose is a rose is a rose.
Organization: MV Communications, Inc.
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 06:53:25 GMT

In article <1992Nov3.090837.7567@klaava.Helsinki.FI> amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell) writes:
>Famous rose lines.  Any author, any language.

You violets, that first appeare,
By your pure purpel mantels knowne,
Like the proud Virgins of the yeare,
As if the Spring were all your own;
What are you when the Rose is blowne?

	John Donne, from "On His Mistris, the Queen of Bohemia"
	(less readable versions welcome.  :-) )


When flowing Cups run swiftly round
  With no allaying Thames,
Our carelesse heads with Roses bound,
  Our hearts with Loyall Flames;
When thirsty griefe in Wine we steepe,
  When Healths and draughts go free,
Fishes that tipple in the Deepe,
  Know no such Libertie.

	Richard Lovelace, from "To Althea, from Prison"
	(stone walls and iron bars come a little later..)


I saw thee once - once only - years ago;
I must not say how many - but not many.
It was a July midnight; and from out
A full-orbed moon, that, like thine own soul, soaring,
Sought a precipitate pathway up through heaven,
There fell a silvery-silken veil of light,
With quietude and sultriness and slumber,
Upon the upturn'd faces of a thousand
Roses that grew in an enchanted garden,
Where no wind dared to stir, unless on tiptoe-
Fell on the upturn'd faces of these roses
That gave out, in return for the love-light,
Their odorous souls in an ecstatic death-
Fell on the upturn'd faces of these roses
That smiled and died in this parterre, enchanted
By thee, and by the poetry of thy presence.

Clad all in white, upon a violet bank
I saw thee half reclining; while the moon
Fell upon the upturn'd faces of the roses,
And on thine own, upturn'd - alas, in sorrow!

Was it not Fate, that, on this July midnight-
Was it not Fate, (whose name is also Sorrow),
That bade me pause before that garden-gate,
To breathe the incense of those slumbering roses?
No footstep stirred; the hated world all slept,
Save only thee and me.  (Oh, heaven - oh, God!
How my heart beats in coupling those two words!)
Save only thee and me.  I paused - I looked -
And in an instant all things disappeared.
(Ah, bear in mind this garden was enchanted!)
The pearly lustre of the moon went out:
The mossy banks and the meandering paths,
The happy flowers and the repining trees,
Were seen no more: the very roses' odors
Died in the arms of the adoring airs.

			Edgar Allan Poe, from "To Helen"

-- 
Mark E. Mallett  MV Communications, Inc./ PO Box 4963/ Manchester NH/ 03108
Bus. Phone: 603 429 2223    Home: 603 424 8129     BIX: mmallett
Internet: mem@mv.MV.COM  ( uucp: ...{decvax|harvard}!mv!mem )
Looking for news and mail in southern NH / northern MA?  Try MV!
From: cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Property Rights (was re: Progress: The New Great Divide? (was Re: Cult)
Date: 10 Nov 92 19:13:00 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <JMC.92Nov6212557@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:

>Why are the Russians in such a rush to get their economy privately
>owned?

Because if it happened more slowly there would be more opportunity to
scrutinise and perhaps subvert the not-entirely-legal methods by which
those who are currently the administrators of Russian wealth are
becoming those who own it.
-- 
Chris Malcolm    cam@uk.ac.ed.aifh          +44 (0)31 650 3085
Department of Artificial Intelligence,    Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK                DoD #205
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: The trouble with gurus
Reply-To: entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 23:00:31 GMT

In article <1du1gfINNqnt@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel) writes:
>
>Remember folks, BillyBob Moyers is an ordained Baptits minister.
>(sorry  should be Baptist)...
>-- 
>Ted....

Wait just a minute.  Are we talking about Joe Campbell or Madonna?

Erik Timmerman

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: Red Beans and Rice
Organization: Clark University
Date: 6 NOV 92 02:02:36 GMT

are very nice.  New Orleans is a food fan's town, and being a food
fan, I enjoyed it immensely.  Any city with crawfish, cafe au lait,
catfish beignets, handmade praline candies, jambalaya, gumbo, and
fresh oysters out the wazoo is a place I would like to live, I
thought.  Then while peacefully taking a shower in my hotel, I
encountered a cockroach the size of Louis Armstrong, and a little
of the romance was destroyed.  Or, at least, altered.  The American
sub-tropics can be seductive, but there are drawbacks.

Having bludgeoned my visitor with the business section of the
Times-Picayune, I went out to have dinner with the estimable
Francis Muir, alias Fido etc.  He is a baseball fan which makes him
a Real Person.

We expected another r.a.b.ster, Miss Barclay Blanchard, at this
gathering, but BB was unable to attend.  She was planning to motor
her way from some other place in the South, and her motor wasn't
motoring, so we were deprived of her company.  Perhaps another day. 
Alliterativeness must seek alliterativeness.

Dr. Muir and I consumed dinner in a most wonderful place, Miss Ruby
and Miss Jean's Saddlery.  I believe that the Saddlery is a name
left over from the original proprietorship.  Miss Ruby and Miss
Jean, however, were there in full force.  Southern ladies, iron-
willed as Scarlett, and as charming.  An exotic and instructive
combination for a Northern broad like me.  Miss Ruby brought me
Dixie beer, which is always a good thing.  Beer, that is.  I had
never encountered Dixie before, and I have to say that I enjoyed
it, for the same reason as I enjoy Iron City.  That is, the beer
itself is pisswater, but the name makes it magnificent.  

Dr. Muir had jambalaya and I had crawfish etouffee.  The etouffee
was outlandishly good.  I'm sure the jambalaya was equally good,
but Dr. Muir, being part-Scot, would never have admitted it.  

We discussed many things, including Eudora Welty, the various
Peacocks, Dorothy Sayers, Steve Garvey, Oxford/Cambridge etc., and
the usual.  I'm sure we were each planning to gossip about other
r.a.b.sters, but in fact a much more overwhelming subject
intervened:  the World Series, in which Otis Nixon fell on his
sword and dashed the Braves fans' hopes.  This consumed our
attention for a while.

We segued eventually to Camille Paglia, whose most recent book
("Sex, Art, and American Culture") we had both read.  We both
agreed that she was a minor goddess. I supplied the word "goddess",
while Dr. Muir supplied the modifier of "minor".  We both agreed
that she would be a good companion, a la Priestley.  

I would go on, but you would all get bored rigid, or get inflamed
beyond recall, so let me just suggest that a gathering of
r.a.b.sters in any place, no matter how small the place/few the
number, is a hell of a good time.

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: BOOK: Hollywood vs. America by Michael Medved
Date: 5 Nov 92 08:18:03 GMT
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences

In article <1992Nov4.180518.20115@cbnews.cb.att.com> pmd@cbnews.cb.att.com (Paul Dubuc) writes:
}I only agree partially with this.  Seems to me that parents can't always
}be enforcing the standards while "anything goes" in the larger society.
}At some point, shouldn't we be able to trust others not to sell beer
}and cigarettes to our kids, or to rent X-rated videos to them, or admit
}them to "topless" bars?  We make laws to enforce standards like this.
}Placing all responsibility in the hands of parents might be a good argument
}against such laws.

If your goal is to raise your children where they won't be able to purchase
those things, then you should contract with the sellers not to do so, or make
some other peaceful arrangement.  These kinds of transactions don't violate
anyone's rights, so coercion (legislation) isn't justifiable on liberal
or libertarian grounds.


Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Voltaire
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: Et in Arcadia ego
Organization: Clark University
Date: 9 NOV 92 17:01:52 GMT


Dr. Muir writes, of our Big Easy conference:

	My bloody oath. We had earlier met up in a Brewery opposite
	the old Jax Brewery where Heather treated me to the quite
	unexpected and spectacular sight of herself quaffing a mug
	of beer of quite unusual size...If I seemed overly serious at
	this meeting, it was because I was very fearful of our Heather
	bursting into more than laughter.

Hey Doc, you failed to describe that part of the evening in which
I hit a policeman.  A Tyler Cranshaw-style adventure, to be sure.
Though the policemen in N'orlins are more agreeable than those in
Dallas and thus I avoided a night in jail, unlike poor Ty.

Or had you left by that point?

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: tourf00@DMI.USherb.CA (Francis Tourillon <Tourfman>)
Subject: Re: Advice to the World Weary
Keywords: Boris Vian, Bison Ravi
Organization: U de Sherbrooke -- LIIT adicts - ANS - Ascot Boyz - 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:31:54 GMT

zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny) pretend que ==>
>In article <1992Nov6.141447.25733@klaava.Helsinki.FI>
>amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell) writes:
>
>>Mikhail Zeleny, l'autorite supr^eme dans l'art de s'eduire, cites:
>
>>D'l'aut'c^ot'e c'est passionnant

Premierement, vous allez me faire le plaisir de cesser de simuler les accents
de notre belle langue.  Regardez la phrase ci-haut, c'est illisible!  Nous 
sommes assez intelligents pour les deviner.
Une apostrophe n'est pas un accent.

>
>	{\Large MON} sperme a crach\'e sur sa tombe \\
>	Et j\`a mon braquemard retombe \\
>	Mais la belle sait mille tours \\
>	Et me tend son cul de velours \\
>	Cul de houri cul de colombe \\
>	Qui s'offre rose et sans d\'etours \\
>	Et je m'y rue comme une bombe \\
>

Je ne commenterai pas les subtiles vers mais encore la, c'est lourd a lire avec
tous ces back-slash \\.

Typiquement Francais, cette poesie!

Francis (du Quebec)
===================
-- 
Tourfman
========
	Vie:    Excellente source de angst
	Angst:  Excellente source d'inspiration
From: nikolay@scws7.harvard.edu (Philip Nikolayev)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Sado-Methodism
Date: 7 Nov 92 03:40:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: scws7.NIKOLAY.92Nov6194028
Organization: The Kremlin Wall of Harvard

E. P. Thompson cites, in _The Making of the English 
Working Class_, some fine specimens of early Methodist
hymnody. I hope their graphic vividness will please
the readers of this learned newsgroup.

Here, for example, is a little ditty which visualises 
the wound in Christ's side as a desired refuge from sin.

	O precious Side-hole's cavity
	I want to spend my life in thee....
	There in one side-hole's joy divine,
	I'll spend all future Days of mine.
	Yes, yes, I will forever sit
	There, where thy Side is split.

The same 'hole' is also described as the 'dearest little
opening of the sacred, precious and thousand times beautiful
little side', in which the 'worm' (i.e. sinful man) finds
'Lodging, Bed and Board'.

More on the same subject, by John or Charles Wesley:

	Come, O my guilty brethren, come,
	    Groaning beneath your load of sin!
	His bleeding heart shall make you room,
	    His open side shall take you in.

More of the same:

	Still the fountain of Thy blood
	    Stands for sinners open'd wide;
	Now, even now, my Lord and God,
	    I wash me in Thy side.

And more:

	We thirst to drink Thy precious blood,
	    We languish in Thy wounds to rest,
	And hunger for immortal food,
	    And long on all Thy love to feast.

More by Charles Wesley, in a somewhat different vein:

	Ah, lovely Appearance of Death,
	    No Sight upon Earth is so fair.
	Not all the gay Pageants that _breathe_
	    Can with a dead Body compare.

And here's one from Isaac Watts' 'Divine Songs for Children':

	When children in their wanton play,
	    Serv'd old Elisha so;
	And bid the prophet go his way,
	    "Go up, thou bold-head, go:"
	GOD quickly stopt their wicked breath,
	    And sent two raging bears,
	That tore them limb from limb to death,
	    With blood, and groans, and tears.

Well, cool, or what?

Philip Nikolayev
nikolay@husc.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster)
Subject: careful handling required?
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 23:30:35 GMT

Annie Dillard (in _Living_by_Fiction_) says it is very hard to write
good fiction about strong emotions or violence.  By "good" I think she
means not only beautiful, but also truthful.  She implies that a
narrative behaving in a surface-only fashion toward the great awful
moments in the life of a human being, is just not up to snuff. 
Profound insights are obligatory.  No amateurs allowed.  Kid gloves
are optional equipment.

But what if the surface is very beautiful?  What if it's a hot pink
sixty-five Cadillac of a surface?  Isn't it an outmoded romantic
notion that passion and death are any deeper than anything else,
except insofar as we construe them that way?

                                                       --Fiona
From: lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Advice to the World Weary
Date: 4 Nov 92 19:55:37 GMT
Organization: Society for the Appreciation of Janni Lee Simner

amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell) writes:
> 
> 		And the trees about me,
> Let them be dry and leafless; let the rocks
> Groan with continual surges; and behind me
> Make all a desolation.  Look, look, wenches!

Where?!?  <whirls head>

Don't see no wenches.  Just desert.

	the despondent in Arizona Mr. E-----
--

                         \   The work is rather too light, and bright,
LNH@physics.arizona.edu   \  and sparkling; it wants ... a long chapter
sometimes a Wombat         \ of solemn specious nonsense. -- Jane Austen
From: jparker@phaedrus.Eng.Sun.COM (Jeff Parker)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Columbus and the Egg?
Date: 10 Nov 1992 16:30:46 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc. - BDC
NNTP-Posting-Host: phaedrus.east.sun.com

In article <179690001@hpcndm.CND.HP.COM> neal@hpcndm.CND.HP.COM (Neal Bauer) writes:
>Those of us who read the introduction were puzzled by this passage:
>
>	In all matters of discovery and
>	invention, even of those that appertain to the imagination, we
>	are continually reminded of the story of Columbus and his egg.
>
>What is the story of Columbus and the egg?

As I recall the story, after Columbus returned from the first voyage,
several wizea*s in the court were commenting about how evident it
was that the earth was round, and in general cutting down Columbus'
achievement.  In response, he asked if anyone could make an egg balance
on one end.  After all had tried and failed, he took an egg, mashed 
one end slightly, and it balanced fine.  
   "Oh, any fool can do that" the wags declared.
   "Any fool can do it when he sees how: the art is being the first
to see it."

- jeff parker
- Sun Soft

--
Jeff Parker						jparker@east.sun.com
Sun Microsystems					      (508) 671-0588
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Subject: Re: Property Rights (was re: Progress: The New Great Divide? (was Re: Cult)
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 10:13:17 GMT

In article <anand.721448494@cds705> anand@Cadence.COM (Anand Bemra) writes:
}Communism failed because of the bureaucratic, all encompassing 
}centripetal State and not because of lack of private property.

'Tis fascinating that anyone can still take this position, although not so
surprising.  The obvious counter is to challenge whether there's ever been
an abolition of private property without the rise of such a state.  This,
of course, leads to the citation of cases in which posession was left private,
but use and disposal were taken by the state at least in part, as in most
democratic socialisms.  Then the debate becomes a question of whether these
also constitute takings of private property, which the statists always deny
and the anti-statists always claim.

And, to top it all off, I'm at a loss as to how to address this Bemra person,
as I'm to unfamiliar with whatever language the name is from to identify it
as masculine or feminine.  Regardless, "Bureaucracy" by Ludwig von Mises
remains a good source refutation of such a facile claim, just as he and
his school of thought are the only ones who've really proven that socialism
is impossible.


Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Voltaire
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox)
Subject: Re: Advice to the World Weary (was Re: The Eudaemonic Pie
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 22:47:59 GMT

In article <JMC.92Nov7085720@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
>Be thankful for small mercies Clayton.  Calling you just a semi-lunatic
>is his first step toward politeness.  Formerly he would have added an
>intensifier to "lunatic" like "ultra-right-wing".  

	Not much point in that.  I hear a rumor that at least one 
forthcoming dictionary revision plans to include:

	cramer, n.  An ultra-right-wing lunatic.

>You should pat him on the head to encourage this trend.

	You shouldn't encourage this sort of behavior in Cramer (or others).
You may me able to get away with this sort of thing due to your
long white beard and aged countenance that make people think you're Santa
Claus, but I doubt Cramer has the appearance for it.  
-- 
				Tom Maddox
		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
		"The Reptoids eat humans like we eat chickens."
				Alex Alexander
From: baldwin@csservera.scs.usna.navy.mil (J.D. Baldwin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: GENIUS:Life/Science of Richard Feynman
Date: 12 Nov 92 17:11:55 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. Dep't., U.S. Naval Academy, Annapolis, MD
In-reply-to: jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk's message of 12 Nov 92 09:52:11 -0400

One guy sure to be angered by the appearance of this book is Murray
Gell-Mann.  Libel laws being what they are, I am loath to repeat any
of the stories I've heard about him, but let's just say they are even
less complimentary than those in "GENIUS."

Anyone here with first-hand (or other) knowledge want to comment on
the portrayal of Gell-Mann?

(By the way, I liked this book a LOT.  Though I was a bit disappointed
by some of the omissions mentioned by previous posters.)
--
 From the catapult of:              |+| "If anyone disagrees with anything I
   _,_  J. D. Baldwin, Comp Sci Dept|+| say, I am quite prepared not only to
 _|70|___:::)=}-  U.S. Naval Academy|+| retract it, but also to deny under
 \      /   baldwin@usna.navy.mil   |+| oath that I ever said it." --T. Lehrer
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books