HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: efk00@cd.amdahl.com (Eddie Kieger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Stainless and WD40
Date: 19 Dec 92 00:24:35 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


In article <1992Dec18.025846.5287@ttinews.tti.com>,
hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
#My understanding is WD-40 was originally developed for use on Titan
#missiles.  What does the military use Break-Free for?

Everything.

seriously, in my unit it is the ONLY thing used to clean guns. No 
bore leaner, just CLP (the military "nickname" for breakfree - look 
at a bottle, it'll say CLP - Cleaner Lubricant Protector. Ya'll know 
how much we LOVE those acronyms....... :-).

Used for everything from mortars to 40mm Grenade launchers (the belt 
fed kind) to .50 cal BMGs, to SIG-226s to .... you get the point :-).

Later, Eddie

Don't tread on me..........................................I bite
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Eddie Kieger                             efk00@cd.amdahl.com 
For Pay:      System Design Engineer     Amdahl Corp.
              Bringing you better mainframe computers
For Fun:      "River Rat"                SBU-XI SPECWARGRU1 (USNR)
              Bringing hellfire and brimstone to a river near you!
From: JCEHC%CUNYVM.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Legal Age for Gun Ownership in New Jersey
Date: 15 Dec 92 03:41:44 GMT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

In article <D2150096.l3tamu@sproul.sproul.com>, Sproul@sproul.sproul.com (Mark
Sproul) says:
#
#In article <199212120513.AA89569@ns1.CC.Lehigh.EDU> (rec.guns),
#dhm1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DANIEL HILL MCCAULEY) writes:
##
##     Does anyone know the legal age for owning shotgun in New Jersey.  Thanks
##
##
##                                 -Dan
#
#Age of ownership is a federal mandate, not a state law.
#
#Long guns 18 years old
#Hand guns 21 years old
#
#-----------------------------------------------------
#Mark Sproul - KB2ICI - New Jersey
#sproul@sproul.com


Federal law only dictates what age the purchaser must be to buy from
a federally licensed dealer.  Under New Jersey law (as far as I under
stand it) one must be at least 18 years old to possess a firearm either
a long arm or a handgun.  An 18 year old can get a "Permit to Purchase
a Handgun" in New Jersey, it's just that they can't buy one from a
licensed dealer.  In my gun club, we have had a number of members
who were under the age of 21 but older than 18.  When they wanted to
buy a handgun, an older member would get a permit to purchase, as
would the young member.  Then the older member would buy whatever
handgun the younger member wanted.  Afterwards the handgun would
be legally "sold" from the older member to the younger member.  I
realize that this constitutes a strawman sale as far as the licensed
dealer is concerned but it is all legal under NJ law.

Michael Gordon
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gun blast noise in a car?
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:33:57 GMT
Organization: Twilight Zone

In article <1992Dec14.183537.4636@athena.cs.uga.edu> boone@athena.cs.uga.edu (Roggie Boone) writes:
#This is probably a dumb question but here goes anyway.
#
#When I was in college, I was basically kidnapped at gunpoint in my
#car.  (Luckily I was released unharmed).  I did not own a gun then,
#and in retrospect, I remember that had I had one, there would have 
#been plenty of chances to shoot the guy inside the car (since I didn't
#know I would have had a chance when he let me go too).  So now I 
#own a Glock 10mm and a .357 magnum.  

	Very good for you.  Glad you were unharmed...
#
#My question is, if one has to shoot inside a car (either at someone
#in your car, or through a windshield to get someone trying to get 
#into your car), how do you protect your ears (and those of passengers)
#from the blast noise?

	Given the type of situation we are talking about here, chances are
	that your hearing will be one of the last things on your mind.  
	Keeping yourself alive will be your most immediate priority.  In any
	event, there is not much you can do, short of driving around with
	your Wolf Ears on (or perhaps around your neck (: ).  A shot going
	off inside a car is going to deliver quite a shock to you via the
	ears, though I doubt you'll even notice it until after the danger
	has passed.

	The only way I can think of to protect your ears would be to try to
	bury the weapon in your assailants ribs and then let loose the rounds.
	This will almost certainly offer a significant level of noise 
	suppression but of course such a maneuver may be tactically unwise, so 
	you have to use your judgement in such a case.  Basically I see it this
	way, if the situation is bad enough to call for the use of deadly 
	force, your hearing may well have to take the hit in order to save your
	bacon.

#Certainly, one would not want to fire a .357 magnum inside of a 
#closed auto, but it would be nice to disable the guy in one shot
#so that you don't have to fire again.

	That's the necessary trade off.  Your ears (hopefully and likely to
	be temporary) or your life.


	-Andy V.


	PS, this was NOT a stupid question.
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Isreal Guns Laws
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:19:33 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <1992Dec14.003619.27017@btree.uucp> btree!andy@UCSD.EDU (Andy Bosik) writes:
}Back in may I visited Israel and I really enjoyed it!
}I noticed that many of the non-military citizens
}regularly carry firearms for self-protection.
}I'm curious as to what the concealed carry laws are,
}also are non-citizens who are residents alowed to own
}firearms,and are civilians allowed to own automatic
}weapons?

As I understand the situation, there are no adult Israeli civilians, for
practical purposes.  They're all considered to be members of some form of
military, reserve or militia.  This accounts for Israel's attitude towards
terrorist kidnappers ("We don't ransom soldiers.  We rescue them or avenge
them. _All_ our citizens are soldiers").

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                Do not meddle in the affairs of
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483  dragons, for you are crunchy
Santa Monica, CA  90405                        and go well with ketchup.
From: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Scope Mount for 1911A1
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:22:41 GMT
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

Are drilling holes on the frame necessary for a good 1911A1 scope mount?
If not, can anyone recommend a good scope mount? Thanks.

David

"Hey punk, this is a 44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world.
By now, you may be wondering if it has 5 or 6 shots. But you are wrong,
it is a Desert Eagle; it holds 8+1 rounds!"
-- 
 K. David Lin, Ph.D.              | IEEE Member, NRA Member, HAM Operator
 Communication Services Research  | U S WEST Life Safety Team
 U S WEST Advanced Technologies   | Defend your life in STEREO - Beretta & SIG 
 E-mail: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com | Disclaimer: Only personal opinions
From: fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: More newbie questions
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:59:29 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)

In article <13659@optilink.COM>, cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
writes:
|> 
|> In article <1992Dec15.195829.18377@igor.tamri.com>,
|> donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin) writes:
|> # For folks with kids, I was wondering how they handle the toy gun
|> debate.
|> # I'm definitely going to take my kids to the range, as soon as they
|> show
|> # interest in shooting
|> 
|> In addition, the sometimes excellent quality of a toy gun may
|> confuse a small child about whether he picking up a toy or a real
|> gun.  Consider something like a Jennings 22, and some of the
|> better pot metal cap guns.  Think about a Glock and some of the
|> better made plastic water guns.
|> --
 I am thinking, how come the Glocks are so damn expensive.
(course the super soakers aren't cheap either) 
-- 
##########################################################
There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES 
                 and TARGETS !!!
#1/XS1100LH	#2/10/10/92
Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
Internet: fist@iscp.bellcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist  
#include <std.disclaimer> My opinions are my own!!!
I Don't shop in malls, I BUY my jeans, jackets and ammo
in the same store.
From: frezza@ee.pitt.edu (Steve Frezza)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Odd-ball surplus ammo
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:54:16 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh, Elec. Eng. Dept.



I am looking for a mail-order source for 8mm LeBelle blanks.
Does anyone know of a good source?

Steve Frezza
frezza@ee.pitt.edu
From: jskelly@hercules.acpub.duke.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: rolling block pistol
Date: 15 Dec 92 03:41:47 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.


I have a Remington rolling block pistol (1877 Navy model) which
has been customized for civilian use.  The pistol is in fair shape
with the exception of the rolling block and the main spring.  I
would appreciate it if anyone out there could help me find a supplier
of parts, either remanufactured or original.  I have already
tried Dixie Gunworks, Gun Parts Corp.(aka Numrich Arms), Navy Arms,
and Antique Gun Parts (Illinois).  Thank you.

	Jon
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: A gun in the car
Date: 19 Dec 92 00:24:17 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <9212160345.AA01467@hp-vcd.vcd.hp.com>, by dmunroe@hpvclmun.vcd.hp.com (Dave Munroe):
# I agree that prevention is the best course.  Still, for those that do carry
# a gun in their car, with the feeling that they might really need it, would
# you have it:
# 
# 	- out in the open on the passenger seat?
# 
# 	- on the passenger seat, under a coat?
# 
# 	- under the drivers seat?
# 
# 	- in the glovebox?
# 
# 	- other?
# 

How about mounting a holster on the console/drive-train tunnel concealed
by the passenger seat - presuming bucket seats ;-{).
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: grey@futon.SFSU.EDU (Herbert Leong)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: New Jersy Gun Laws
Date: 19 Dec 92 15:21:00 GMT


In article <BzA8op.1nz@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>  writes:
# In article <D2150096.l3tamu@sproul.sproul.com>  
Sproul@sproul.sproul.com (Mark Sproul) writes:
# #Age of ownership is a federal mandate, not a state law.
# #
# #Long guns 18 years old
# #Hand guns 21 years old
#
# Hmmm...if the signs in Wal-Mart are accurate (and I would assume  
that they
# are), that also applies to ammo for guns. But I have a question:
# 	How do they treat ammo for carbines (eg, .44Mag or .357Mag  
carbines)?
# It's a "pistol" caliber, but if you're shooting it in a Marlin  
.44Mag
# lever action rifle, it's a long-arm round...Or what about ammo for  
T/C
# pistols? I'd look it up myself, but I can't find my #$%@ned red  
book. :-(
#
# 					James
I have the same problem:
I was told when I bought me TimberWolf (.357 mag) that I should state  
"I am purchasing this ammo for a carbine that shoots xxx caliber  
cartrige, I will  not be used in any type of handgun"  have the clerk  
write it on the sales slip, etc.  It boils down to will the shop  
accept it or not.  If they are sceptical, you can show them the  
carbine.  but it still remains up to the shop to decide weather or  
not you get to buy the ammo. (if it was the same shop that you bought  
the rifle in the first place, I would make LOTS of noise (what do you  
mean you sold me a rifle and you will not sell me ammo for it?!?!?!  
what kind of buissness is this?!?! I want a refund?!?!? bla bla bla  
rant rant rant rave rave rave :)
/herb
--
grey@futon.sfsu.edu
grey@wet.com

[Paste Standard Disclaimer Here]
From: donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: dealing with a police officer
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:34:29 GMT
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA

In article <viking.724380552@vincent1.iastate.edu> viking@iastate.edu
(Dan Sorenson) writes:
##This is exactly what I would do now.  Engine off.  Hands on the wheel
##at 12 o'clock.  Smile to the officer and ask what he wants you to do,
##then AFTER HE TELLS YOU WHAT TO DO, mention 'I have a CCW and a {type
##gun in whatever carry position}, does that change what you want me to do?'
#
#	It's just an opinion, but it strikes me as being a more hazardous
#situation for the officer if he has to approach your car.  Even when I'm
#being pulled over for a simple 60 in a 55 (it was Labor Day weekend), I
#always get out of the car and walk back towards the cruiser.  First, I
#don't want an officer looking into my car, and second he has ample time
#to observe me and make a good judgement on my intentions, demeanor, and
#sobriety.  I walk back and, if it is cold, I head to the passenger side
#and give a gentle knock on the window.  If invited, I sit inside where
#it is warm and we have a nice chat over the weather, my offense, the
#last guy he busted, what the radar gun says, etc...

You know, I always thought the same thing.  I mean, you could have a
pistol concealed beside your seat in the car but, if you get out, I
would think it would be easier to spot weapons on you.

However, when I was pulled over for having a taillight out 5 years ago,
it made the Santa Clara Sheriffs nervous and they looked in my car (just
eyeball, no search) for weapons.  Later, I walked over towards them to
clarify something and it REALLY put them on guard...I realized this, backed
off with my empty hands visibly displayed.  They ended up being decent guys,
even let me drive my car home when my license (which they confiscated) was
suspended (I'd reported an accident a year earlier to the police and the
insurance guys but not the DMV and they retaliated by suspending my license).

Later, I was told that you're supposed to sit still with your hands
visbly displayed.   I can see it both ways:  don't want to make a good
cop's day stressful but I also resent it being assumed that I'm a violent
criminal.  And I still think getting out of the car renders you less
likely to really be dangerous!  And are you supposed to know the correct
approach intuitively?

   don
From: Caughill@mixcom.mixcom.com (Caughill)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Smith & Wesson Autos
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:55:19 GMT
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.

In <m0n1BP7-0008PwC@liasun6.epfl.ch> baechler@lia.di.epfl.ch (Emmanuel Baechler) writes:

#To be complete, one must however add that, if the S&W pistols are junk
#(model 41 and 52 excepted, of course), they are able to produce some good
#revolvers. The S&W 686, for example, is both accurate and durable. A range
#here rents one which has shot more than 50'000 shots. Gunsmith here, when
#they sell second hand 686 having fired 10'000 shots add a 1 year warranty
#at their own risk.

#Emmanuel Baechler.                        | Tel.: ++41-21-693-2732
#Laboratoire d'Intelligence Artificielle   | e-mail: baechler@lia.di.epfl.ch
#Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne  |     or: baechler@liasun6.epfl.ch
#MA-Ecublens                               | Standard Disclaimer
#CH-1015 Lausanne	Switzerland

     I'm a latecomer to this thread, but I just wanted to come to S&Ws
defense. I own an old S&W 39-2 9mm auto and although it's quite old it's still
one of the sweetest guns I've ever handled. And one of the best carry-guns
ever designed. And the 669 I fired a couple of years ago at a range in Florida
was one of the best out-of-the-box automatics I have ever seen. I hit three
floating ballons with it at a range of 25 yards with just 5 rounds. And
believe me I'm no expert shot.

Mike Caughill
-- 
Caughill@mixcom.com
From: scylax!tiglath@uunet.UU.NET
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Denver Police shoot man
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:20:06 GMT
Organization: ScylaxCorp


hobbes@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com writes

#If that barrel is pointing at them, or a person is turning around towards
#them, and that barrel is turning towards them, the police will
#shoot and ask questions later.

FYI, when a gun is pointing at you, it can go BLAM!, and you are dead.

#Can I as citizen, shoot someone in self defense (without any warning) simply
#because somebody is pointing a gun at me?

If the answer were NO, I guess you would not shoot.  Following leaders and
laws blindly is bad for longevity.  Ask your brain and do as told.

If someone points a gun at ANYONE and gets shot.  It's a square deal.
From: ghm@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: FYI: "Guns that won the West" on A&E
Date: 21 Dec 92 03:23:51 GMT
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia

callison@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:

#In article <1992Dec9.162555.7831@ke4zv.uucp> emory!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:
##
##Well their idea of accuracy differed from that of the paper puncher.
##They fired from a prone rest atop a hill with thousands of buffalo
##too dumb to run milling about below them. A buff is a large target,
##and they weren't concerned about humane kills. All they wanted were
##the hides and they could get that just as easily from a buffalo that
##took two weeks to die as one that dropped dead on the spot. It often
##took weeks to skin a day's slaughter.

#From my recollection of books about the period (i.e. I read a lot of
westerns whan I was younger:-) what the buffalo hunters most wanted
to avoid was spooking the herd.  If they could drop an animal cleanly
the rest of the herd would carry on grazing, apparently not associating
the noise of the shot with any danger.  Although the herds were large,
the conclusion that the hunters just fired into the mass is wrong.
Accuracy was of paramount importance.

#It seems to me like the buffalo hunters also had this little gadget
#they carried around in the back of a wagon called the "Gatling Gun"...
#Of course, I could be mistaken...but this would seem to back up
#the NRA's claim that there are legitimate sporting purposes for
#full-auto weapons. :-) :-)

I suspect you are mistaken.  This may have been done on film but
(for the reasons given above) it wouldn't have been very productive
in practice.  Anyway, what sort of a cartridge did the early-model
Gatling guns fire?  Would it have been powerful enough to kill a buffalo
with anything other than a _very_ lucky shot?

Geoff Miller  (g-miller@adfa.oz.au)
Computer Centre, Australian Defence Force Academy
From: efk00@cd.amdahl.com (Eddie Kieger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AMT backup .380
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:35:10 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


At risk of taking lotssa flak, I'll stand up for AMT (flame suit ON :-)

I've got an old single action backup, and it is not a bad little gun. 
It will jam on certain kinds of rounds, but will feed most no problem. 
Be prepared for a healthy bit of kick, as with any small gun with a 
(I know I will attract a lot of flames for THIS one) medium cartridge 
like the .380.

I too looked at the DA backup. I am thinking about getting one. Of 
course beware of the gun mags. Every so often,there is a thread on 
this group linking the rave gun reviews of some magazines with 
advertising revenues...... Also it is said that some magazines 
NEVER give a bad review.

I also have one of their Hardballers. For those unfailiar w/ the 
Hardballer, it is a stainless Gold Cup clone. This gun was purchased in 
'84 or '85, and has had a LOT of rounds through her (for years my only 
pistol). Absolutely NO work was done to the gun (except adjust the 
sights :-), and she shoots NICE tight groups. I have NEVER experienced 
ANY jams with this gun (even with lead semi-wadcutters). I love this 
damn gun. From all I have heard about AMT, this may be unusual, but I 
would recommend them based on MY experience.

As a point of reference, I shoot BETTER with the hardballer than I do 
with ANY gun (glock 21 17 19 23, Sig 226 225 220, Beretta 92, Colt 
1911A1, Springfield 1911A1, S&W 5906 3906 4506 3913 etc.). I do try to 
shoot a lot of different guns............. 

The best thing about the AMT guns is that they are AMERICAN made. 
(All you Sig & Glock & Beretta & .... owners send flames to /dev/null)

You're mileage may vary...............

Eddie

Don't tread on me..........................................I bite
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Eddie Kieger                             efk00@cd.amdahl.com 
For Pay:      System Design Engineer     Amdahl Corp.
              Bringing you better mainframe computers
For Fun:      "River Rat"                SBU-XI SPECWARGRU1 (USNR)
              Bringing hellfire and brimstone to a river near you!
From: julian@bongo.tele.com (Julian Macassey)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gun lubricants (and holiday message) (was: Re: Stainless and WD40)
Date: 20 Dec 92 15:33:27 GMT
Organization: Xenon Systems News n Mail, Hollywood

In article <1992Dec19.162431.10636@chpc.org> rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes:
#I recently was shootijng a finely tuned, utterly reliable racing gun in 
#cold (30 degree) weather.  I had liberally lubricated this gun (a high
#capacity CAspian 1911oid in 38 super) with Break Free.  I noticed that 
#everything worked in slow motion for the first few shots - the break free
#appeared to become very viscous in the cold weather.
#
#My gunsmith told me that Break Free is not a good lube for cold weather
#applications, and that Rem Oil maintained its viscosity better at low
#temperatures.

	According to my official gummint evil assault rifle operators
manual, Your gunsmith is nearly right.

	I refer to "Rifle, 5.56-mm M16A2 W/E (1005-01-128-9936)
Operator's Manual W/Components list" U.S. Marine Corps TM
05538C-10/1A. 

	This nifty booklet has on Page 28 a "Lube Guide". It contains
a nice graphic display of a mercury type thermometer. I will quote the
text of that page:

	" Under all but the coldest Arctic conditions, CLP is the
lubricant to use on your rifle. Remember to remove excessive CLP from
the bore and chamber before firing.

	CLP - Cleaner, lubricant and preservative  Refillable 1/2 oz
bottle NSN 9150-01-102-1473

	BETWEEN 0F and -35F (use) EITHER CLP or LAW

	LAW - lubricating oil, Arctic weopons  1 qt can NSN
9150-00-292-9689

	Lightly Lubed - a film of CLP barely visable to the eye

	Generously Lubed - Heavy enough so that it can be spread with
the finger."

	Now to explain the thermometer graphics. A line up and down
the thermometer, from the top to a point marked -35F indicated that
CLP should be used. Yes, that means it is good to -35F. Then a
vertical line from the 0F line to the bottom of the thermometer
indicates that LAW should be used. So at temperatures below -35 only
LAW should be used. At temps above 0F , only CLP should be used.

	As I recall, CLP is the Gummint name for Break Free. 
	

-- 
Julian Macassey at bongo. julian@bongo.tele.com Voice: (213) 653-4495
Paper Mail: 742 1/2 North Hayworth Avenue, Hollywood, California 90046-7142