From: del@fnx.uucp (Dag Erik Lindberg)
Subject: Re: Hi.
Organization: I/Ovations
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:52:01 GMT

In <crystal.721177759@glia> crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Crystal) writes:
>In <1992Nov1.090336.1489@u.washington.edu> tzs@stein.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) writes:

>I just couldn't let this go without comment - especially after driving in
>Los Angeles for several days a week or so ago..

>I was driving through evening rush hour traffic on Southbound 405 tonight,
>and many observations occurred to me.  All this talk about our own gridlock,
>L.A. and NJ, and I just had to write this.  Those who complain about HERE,
>have obviously never been THERE.

I spent six months in LA, East Hollywood, and Burbank two years ago.  I was
*working* there at the time, so I had the privilege of commuting to and
from the job 6 days a week.  My impressions of the experience are quite
different from yours, Crystal.

Yes, it's true that there are cars on the road nearly 24 hours a day.
Yes, it's true that there are *more* cars on the road.  However, the
degree of 'traffic jam' there is not far beyond what we experience here.
I found the drivers there efficient and cooperative:  if we tried to
move that many cars on a roadway *here* we would have total gridlock and
and shut down the city.

>Also, someone mentioned impolite drivers up here. HA!  They haven't met the
>Californian's (or the Vancouver, BC or Phoenix, AZ drivers!).  I can't begin

Well, actually with 6 months of driving to/from work in LA, I would say that
I *have* met quite a few anonymous Californian drivers.

>to tell you how many people I saw driving at top speed changing lanes dashing
>through the spaces on the San Diego Freeway!  Folks cutting people off, etc.
		....
>While I was in L.A., I was told by one of my passengers that I was too polite
>to be driving there!  So if you see me on a Seattle freeway, wave - and I'll
>let you cut in... ;>

Crystal, I think your passenger was right... your brand of 'politeness'
doesn't fly in LA.  Apparently you require someone to wave first, then you
will let them 'cut in'.  If I don't wave first, then I  become one of the
"Folks cutting people off".

My experience of driving in Seattle is that if I change lanes or pull
out into traffic, I am likely to get honked at or yelled at.  I hardly
call that polite.  It never happened to me in LA.

The drivers here have a belief that they own the road in front of their
vehicle.  If they have to step on the brake a little to let you pull out
into traffic they are offended.  That may be 'polite' behaviour by some
definition, but it doesn't move traffic efficiently.

Only a couple of times in LA did I ever have someone speed up to prevent
me from changing lanes in front of them - a daily occurrance here in
Seattle.  Is that polite?

My personal opinion is that the Seattle concept of 'polite' behaviour
on the road is obsolete given the level of traffic we have now.  It
actually begins to border on rude behaviour, given that it tends to
promote friction and hard feelings among drivers.

>Which leads me to another observation:

>Seattle freeways have FORESTS along the edges!  Even the S-curves of Renton

Not usually.  Usually it is a belt of 20 feet or so of trees bordering the
freeway so that you *think* there is forest there.  They do that to help
mollify the environmentalists.  At least half the time, I'm sure more,
if you pull over and start walking through the 'woods' you will either
come to a housing development, or a logging clearcut.

>have nature's wonders to enjoy while you sit and contemplate the accident
>up ahead.  I've seen red-tailed hawks on the street lamps along 509.  A few
>buildings, and a few 5-10 mile stretches of concrete, but definitely much
>more greenery than L.A. could EVER hope to replant.  520 has Lake Washington
                                            ???????

Sorry, Crystal, but you are comparing apples and oranges.  The LA area
is not far from desert.  To make a valid comparison you would have to
compare with a freeway in a similar landscape.  It would be more like
Spokane, not exactly my idea of scenic.  It's not a matter of replanting
in LA - it wasn't ever there to begin with.

>Forgive me, KBO members, but I'm just not a selfish person...and when you 
>love something, it's hard not to share that love with others.

It becomes less difficult as you start to see features you have cherished
since childhood destroyed to make way for a burgeoning population, much
of it transplants from other areas.  I don't mind much when it is people
with friends or family in the area, people that came here through some
'normal' migration process.  What I object to is the people that I meet
who have moved here because:

- it's the most livable US city
- they heard on the radio (or wherever) that we don't have a recession here
- we have better (read: easier to get) welfare here
- they read that cost of living is low here (not any more!)
- they heard someone like Crystal talking about what a great place it is.

Go ahead, brand me an Emmet Watson type.  I don't hate outsiders.  I
just think that a little negative publicity is a good thing.  We don't
need the population here to be increasing due to artificial influences.
We *certainly* don't need to be encouraging 'outsiders' to move here.
Especially given the problem we seem to have here figuring out things
like driving, roads, and mass transit!

If Tracy doesn't have a contact here to help her integrate with life
in Seattle - let her have it with both barrels.  If she wants to live
here badly enough to get past the animosity, we'll move over and let
her 'be one of us'.  If she wants to whine 'Eewww, you guys are
unfriendly!'...

-- 
del AKA Erik Lindberg                             uunet!pilchuck!fnx!del
                          Who is John Galt?
Newsgroups: seattle.general