From: grendel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alyosha Bourgea)
Subject: Re: Children in Same-gender Families
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: 14 Dec 92 04:21:57 GMT

In <602@blue.cis.pitt.edu> psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek) writes:

>In article <13DEC199214395709@zeus.tamu.edu> rlc1028@zeus.tamu.edu writes:

[re: psg's homo-hating wife who was raised by lesbian parents]

>>	Sounds to me like there /wasn't/ much love if she hates them so.

>But you weren't there so what it sounds like to you doesn't really matter.
>I can tell you just from what I hear from her mother today that she did
>all the politically correct stuff with both her daughters and it did 
>nothing but harden their opinion against gays.

If her mother did "politically correct stuff", I'm not surprised your wife
was disgusted.  "Political correctness" has nothing to do with parenting.

>>	So, would you rather Gay parents teach their children that their
>>parents are evil sick people?  I'm sure that will lead to a loving 
>>relationship. 

>What I want is really irrelevant, I'm not a gay parent so I couldn't 
>care less because I know that even if I did care since I won't walk 
>lockstep with gay activists, my desires would be dismissed out of hand.

If what you want is irrelevant and you're so convinced that no one cares what
you think, why did you post the example of your wife, and why are you 
continuing this thread?

>I'm simply telling you that the entire notion, that explaining this "stuff"
>to children won't always lead to the result you think.  Those that push
>things like the Children of the Rainbow programs are fooling themselves
>if they believe the in your face approach to parents and their children
>will lead to greater tolerance.  It won't!  

I'm not sure exactly what is meant by "in your face".  Care to explain?

>In addition to my wife (and her sister experiences) I can compare my own
>understanding of homosexuality with that of my son's.  When I was his age
>we knew little more than they existed, no one was teaching "tolerence"
>and we gave them little more than a second thought.  My son and his 

And if any of them dared show their faces, you beat the tar out of them,
right?  Ignorance is bliss.

>school friends have had this stuff crammed down their throats for years
>already, not only from teachers sympathetic to gay causes, but in 
>everything from music (read MTV) and their television show.  The result 
>is that I have heard 10 year olds in a school yard trying to out do each
>other with ways to "kill fags and lezzies" with a zeal that would make
>Hilter proud.  Further questioning of my sons told me that those aren't
>the exceptions in attitudes amongst his peers, it's the norm.  

Of course it is.  I can vouch for that.  Juveniles are always less tolerant
than adults.  I don't know where you get the idea that "this stuff" has
been crammed down anybody's throat, but let me assure you there's plenty
of homophobic culture out there to balance out MTV.  Rap music comes to
mind.  There's a long way to go before schoolkids become generally accepting
of homosexuality.  Reeducation has only just begun.

>You can not force or legislate tolerance and the current attempts to 

Oh no?  What about the Civil Rights Bill, passed in '64?

Answer me this: do we currently legislate tolerance of African-Americans?
Are we successful?  Do black kids go to the same school with white kids?
Do black people get hired at the same businesses as white people?
Are schools and businesses that exclude blacks tolerated?

>do so are building an ugly monster that is going to take you breath away 
>one day.  You need look no further than the rise in gay bashing and
>violence to know what I'm talking about.  	

Show me this rise in gay bashing and violence, I'd really like to see it.
Free clue: there has always been gay bashing.  It's epidemic in our society
and it always has been.  The only reason it may be more frequent today is
because gays have stopped hiding the fact that they are gay.

You want to see the result
>of allowing gays into the military over the objections of the majority?
>Read the Clarinews article about the gay sailor that was beaten to death
>by his shipmates for being opnely gay. 

Read the numerous articles about gay civilians that are beaten to death
by other civilians for being gay.  It happens.  Instead of refusing to deal
with the problem honestly, the military should crack down on internal
violence.  That's the real problem, not homosexuality.

>Be my guest and continue to try to force an attitude change, keep closing your
>eyes to the results the "gay activists" have gotten to date, choose to
>take a - brain wash the kids as early as possible - attitude, I don't
>care.

Pretty lengthy post for someone who doesn't care.
There's no way anyone can force an attitude change, and that's not what gay
activists are fighting for.  People have the right to hate gays all they want,
as long as they don't impinge upon gay rights in the process of their hatred.

>Be my guest, I'm not the one that will suffer the backlash should I be be right
>and you be wrong.

What backlash?  Homophobia is already epidemic.  The problem is that it isn't
being challenged as often as it should be.  People can still get away with a
faggot joke relatively unscathed.  Not so with a nigger joke.  Why not?
Because blacks (and whites who supported them) banded together in the sixties
and fought for equal rights, which they achieved to a large extent.  As a
result of these equal rights, an attitude shift took place in America.
I expect the same will follow the granting of equal rights for homosexuals.

>PSG


--
Yosha Bourgea                   "Newspapers screamed for blood...
grendel@camelot.bradley.edu     it was the best of times."
Squid Power                              --Sting

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