HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tim@ear-ache.mit.edu (Tim Wilson)
Subject: Re: Bar Etiquette: Further digression
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:45:01 GMT

tcarlin@athena.mit.edu (Thomas B Carlin) writes:

   This March, on a truly foolish drive from Boston to Sarasota, I stopped
   in one of these "Shoney's", which I had never heard of until I had
   gotten south of DC.  There is a reason these don't exist north of DC.

Yeah.  Reasonably good food at reasonable prices would never cut it in
New England. :-)  Shoney's advertisements on CMT and the weather
channel are geared toward truckers and business travellers.  They're
not exactly trying to mass market gourmet food.

   I had order something called a "country fried steak", which the menu
   listed as having "gravy" on it.  When it came, I had this breaded fried
   steak covered in what could only be wallpaper paste.  When I asked the
   waitress what the white stuff was, she - looking at me blankly like I
   had just asked her what direction was up - said "that's the gravy". 
   Well, I dipped my finger in it to taste it, and replied "this is not
   gravy - gravy is brown, this is a rue".  Anyhow, she didn't have a clue
   what a rue was, and I had her take it back to scrape the white stuff
   off, asking for steak sauce or something.

Country-fried steak is tenderized meat that's been battered and fried
as one would chicken.  It's also called "chicken-fried steak."  The
gravy is called cream gravy (yum, yum). There's a recipe for it in the
_Fanny Farmer Cookbook_; you know, *Boston* Cooking School, and all
that.  Neither fried chicken nor country-fried steak ought to be
served without cream gravy.  Ever hear of biscuits and gravy?  Split
the biscuits, spoon the gravy over them, apply salt and pepper
generously, then eat the biscuits with a fork.  In fact, who needs the
chicken or steak?  

   They were really quite offended by all this.

No!  Oh well, It wasn't the first time a northerner had had trouble
understanding Southern culture or cuisine.

   How do these people live on this stuff?

Fat and happy.  You should try country ham and red-eye gravy.

Obmotss:  If the Cracker Barrel chain weren't run by such a bunch of
total idiots, one could partake of biscuits and gravy there, too.
--
Tim Wilson
Internet:  tim@ear-ache.mit.edu
UUCP:  mit-eddie!mit-athena!tim
From: larry@bradley.bradley.edu (L. D. Stratton)
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Organization: Bradley University
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 18:28:41 GMT

In <1993Jan4.204040.5631@wixer.cactus.org> will@wixer.cactus.org (Bill Staniewicz) writes:
>I recently went shopping for a new bottle of
>cologne and was reminded by the variety of choices
>available. Among those were: Obsession, Drakkar Noir,
>Stetson, Kouros, and Eternity for Men. 
>Does anyone have any idea what the most popular
>may be within the gay community. Is there any special
>preference? Are the manufacturers aware of this?
>Perhaps we could have nominations and take a vote.
>Bill
>will@wixer.cactus.org

   Cologne seems to be a matter of personal choice.  I wouldn't want
   to wear a cologne (on those rare occasions when I do) that everyone
   else wore.

   Several years ago Arimas (sp) was extremely popular, to the point
   that I became nauseous to that scent.  I'd rather be 'turned on'
   by a new scent or one that reacts with a person's chemistry to be
   quite different.

   OK, for votes, I prefer one of 3 depending on mood and situation:
   Gucci Nobile, Kouros or J.H.L.  with an occasional dash of Cal
   Klein's Obsession.

   ld


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Catharsis
Date: 11 Jan 93 19:39:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan11.193932.10984
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1isf5gINNa9v@spim.mti.sgi.com> dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>This whole flame war with George has made me consider posting
>styles/motivations.  I tend to not insult people in real life.
>In fact, I tend towards being a basically nice person.  Why is
>it, then, that I have this tendency to flame George (and to 
>pick fights with Steve) at seemingly random times.

I don't see how this is a flame war with George.  George flamed Arne
and he got called on it.  Mostly it was simply saying what should have
been said in the open years ago.  And it was offered rather gently.

And you've never insulted me, Jeff.  And I don't mean that you failed
(bwa-ha-haaa), I mean that you've disagreed with what I've said before,
but I never interpreted that disagreement as personal unpleasantness
not have I ever thought that it reflected orneriness or bad blood between
us.  For example, that _Final Exit_ discussion was IMHO really, really good
(though perhaps tedious to others after a bit.)  We're not here to give
warm fuzzy all the time.

>I then realize
>that I take out my frustrations with life/job/whatever, on people
>on the net.  I get out of a meeting where I am angry, and I see
>George calling someone a name, so I flame him, and voila, I feel better.

Mental health tidbits...

>If I keep up the fight for a while, I am in a really
>bad mood (usually, this is with Steve, not George).  

What _are_ you talking about?

>I don't know why I do this, but I suspect I am not the only one...

Everyone has bad days...

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Bar Etiquette: Further digression
Date: 9 Jan 93 11:22:44 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <TIM.93Jan8152613@ear-ache.mit.edu>,
tim@ear-ache.mit.edu (Tim Wilson) writes:
> Red-eye gravy is made from country-ham de-glazings and black coffee,
> thus the pick-me-up effect when you've got red eyes.

No whiskey, then?

-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"*aqua mirabilis* a preparation distilled from cloves, nutmeg, ginger,
and spirit of wine" -- Chambers English Dictionary (1988)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: foucault@netcom.com (Howard Arthur Faye)
Subject: Re: Different Strokes (was Re: Changing standards of female beauty)
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 01:58:43 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.004232.7032@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>
>Did I call him a shit-faced dumb-fuck jackass?  No, I did
>not.  Therefore it was not a flame.  See, it's so simple,
>really.  It was more like comparing clay masques to witch
Clay masques are enhanced if preceded by a cleaning with witch hazel
(an excellent astringent) and followed by a rinse of warm water. This
cleans off oily residues and allows the induction of garbage from

-- 
Howard Arthur Faye * Panglossian Acres * Box 7 * Littlerock, CA   93543

"To invite someone to your house means devoting yourself to ensuring his
happiness the whole time he is under your roof." --Brillat-Savarin


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: paul@psych.toronto.edu (Paul Hastings)
Subject: Re: For a limited time only
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:29:11 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.172934.5606@tc.cornell.edu> shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
>In article <1993Jan5.170846.25007@psych.toronto.edu> jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis) writes:
>>Bleh!  This is the worst idea since MuchPolka, Canada's own 24-hour
>>polka station.
>
>Say, what is it with Canada and polka dancing?  My childhood
>memories of Canadian television is polka shows and hockey
>games, and changing the channel to pick up Buffalo stations
>as soon as my grandparents left the room.

I would guess Melinda, that your childhood memories are of Ontario
or Manitoba, although PolkaHell does extend its nefarious tendrils
throughout most of the Mediocre Grey-snow North.
But possibly the most horrific of television phenomena that we here
in Toronto, and around Ontario I'm sure, is the vile and repulsive
Tiny Talent Time.  Bad enough hearing accordians whale out their
tunes, but seeing 5 year olds polka along with 'em???
AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH
-paul

ObMotss?  While I was in Atlanta last summer I stayed at the home of
a gay accordian teacher.  He had just returned from the only accordian
specialty store in the US, up in Detroit or somewhere, and was just
overjoyed to play play play *one* *more* barrel-tune for me.  Whee.

-- 
Aunt Em,                                 I think we better go get some-
     Hate you.  Hate Kansas.             thing to eat before we end up 
     Taking the dog.                     like the Donner party.
                        Dot.                             Buster Bunny.
From: ST402341@brownvm.brown.edu (Gary Byma)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: A not-so-cheery coming out story
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 15:05:37 EST
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

In the continuing saga of coming out, I called an old friend of some
twelve years yesterday and told him that I was gay. He was stunned
and angry and openly expressed his disgust. He said "I can't
imagine anything that you could have done that could have been
more catastrophic to a friendship. It disgusts me that someone
who I used to respect could make such a wrong choice."

I had been reticent to talk to this friend because he had in the
past made serious homophobic remarks (containing the words faggot
and baseball in the same sentence). I was wrestling with the
conflict of whether or not it was personally ethical for me
to continue to be friends with someone who was homophobic.
I had hoped that realizing that he had close friend might cause
him to reassess his views, but I guess I was wrong. It saddens
me to lose a friend, and I hope that maybe he will come to
see that he was wrong, given time.

Gary Byma
From: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Good "Anti-Two" Letters in Today's Wall Street Journal
Date: 8 Jan 1993 14:10:53 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Reply-To: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: ansible.pubs.stratus.com

The Wall Street Journal recently published an article on Colorado's
Proposition 2, and today published a number of letters in response.
Of the letters (and I think five were printed), most were opposed to
Prop 2, and only one was in favor.  And the one that was in favor
said it was good because the ski slopes were less crowded!

*  In Germany they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak *
*  because I wasn't a Communist.  Then they came for the Jews, and I *
*  didn't speak because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade *
* unionists, and I didn't speak because I wasn't a trade unionist... *
*Then they came for me--and by that time no one was left to speak up.*
*  Rev. Martin Niemoeller     [Why to March on Washington in April]  *
From: owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Dworkin (was Re: Liberty)
Date: 5 Jan 93 19:10:16 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.032731.13894@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
> In article <1993Jan5.030042.10601@netcom.com> onr@netcom.com (D. Owen Rowley) writes:
> >I suppose that there are indeed massive numbers of clueless men who
> >can't think beyond the end of their dicks, but that is a sign of ignorance
> >and insensitivity, not women-hating.
> 
> Well, would you allow that it might look differently seen from the
> other end of your dick?  

Of course  I do.

> I am reluctant to claim categorically that
> the hated can't decide for themselves when they're hated.  It's a
> very "Walter" kind of argument, y'know?

I wasn't claiming that women can't decide for themselves when they 
feel like they are hated.

I was making my point fom my particular view of the world, and my
intent was to talk about the power struggles that underlie the issue.

I tend to look towards causes when I see consistent symptoms.

I can grok that Andrea Dworkin tweaks a nerve that is familiar to
any woman who's suffered the *other PMS ( P-utting up with M-ens S-hit )

I just think that the hatefull behavior is a symptom rather than an end in
itself.

LUX ./. owen
--
D. Owen Rowley {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen, owen@autodesk.com
[ EU-PHORIA: A STATE OF WELL BEING ]
Euphoria is my natural state, I do what I enjoy and an abundance 
of all good fortune comes to me for it.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:24:47 EST
From: <REC8@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Northern Exposure

I wonder if anyone who has been keeping up with the N.E.  debate thinks the
show's writers have vindicated themselves with last night's (11 Jan)
episode.  I thought that Chris' admission to having had an erotic dream
about another man (even though it turned out to be a woman) probably made
some viewers uncomfortable.  Other thoughts?


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ronald E.  Chennault (REC8@psuvm.psu.edu)
Penn State University
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: xtkmg@trentu.ca (Kate Gregory)
Subject: Re: Changing standards of female beauty (Is: the empowerment of women)
Organization: Trent University, Ontario
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 21:16:23 GMT

In article <1993Jan3.152358.7218@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>In article <1i6201INNo03@mizar.usc.edu>
>adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (Arne Adolphson), West Hollywood's
>Bad Guy Recidivist, scoffs:
>>In article <1993Jan3.014408.18528@toolz.uucp> 
>>todd@toolz.uucp (Todd Merriman) writes:

>>>As long as women continue to smear that ridiculous colored
>>>stuff all over their faces, they cannot be taken seriously.
>>By you, perhaps.  I don't have any problems taking women
>>seriously whether or not they're wearing makeup.
>Touch'e, couldn't agree with you more.

I've deliberately left the responses by Jess and Arne here to show
that I know full well that not all men agree with Todd.

To Todd I say, first, who asked you? I mean really, why did you
think that soc.motss (a group in which people attracted to members of the
same sex [and supportive straights] chitchat, talk amongst themselves, 
and work for change) needed to hear your unsolicited opinions about
women and makeup? Second, they cannot be taken seriously by whom? Are
you in charge of how seriously all the men and women in the world
are to take makeup-wearing women?

Look, I can't remember when I last wore makeup. I know I wore some
to a wedding in 1981, and I may have worn some to a job interview
in 1984 but then again maybe I didn't. It's probably been at least
ten years. Big woo. It's just as patronizing to have some man
tell me (without prompting) that the presence of makeup on my
face makes me not worth taking seriously as it would be to have
some man tell me the absence of makeup on my face makes me a lesser
woman, as they used to. 

John Dorrance made some good points about motivation in a post I
didn't mark to followup. But even if some poor misguided woman
believes she must use that nasty old makeup to be taken seriously,
as she blindly follows her cultural upbringing, I fail to see how
Todd's refusal to take her seriously is in fact going to help anything.

Kate
From: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: crabs (was Re: Changing standards of female beauty)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 17:06:11 GMT
Reply-To: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca

In article <1993Jan8.201842.7252@athena.mit.edu> read@athena.mit.edu (Read  
Weaver) writes:
> In article <1993Jan6.033916.6487@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)  
writes:
> |> A-200, Rid, and Kwell shampoos are effective against crabs.  Kwell  
creme and
> |> lotion is supposed to remain on the skin for 8-12 hours; they are  
used to
> |> treat scabies.
> 
> As Steve says, Kwell shampoo _is_ prescribed for crabs. It is, however,  
almost
> never an approporate prescription.  As I believe Steve says elsewhere,  
Kwell
> is basically Lindane, and is quite toxic--it's a skin-absorbed  
neurotoxin.

Being a Slut (TM), I have found that a most effective remedy for crabs is  
a product called Nix. It's not particularly irritating, is quite safe,  
takes 10 minutes, and only has to be used once. I highly reccommend it.

-Anthony
From: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Arne Adolphson, Moron At Large
Date: 11 Jan 93 17:10:28 GMT
Reply-To: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Organization: sgi
NNTP-Posting-Host: tattoo.mti.sgi.com

In article <73221@cup.portal.com>, Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
|> Jeff Dauber writes:
|> >Physician, Heal thyself. 
|> 
|> Been looking into a mirror as you post, Jeff?


So's yer mother.
Sez you.

My, for someone who claims such a strong grasp on the english language,
you seem entirely lacking when it comes to reparte, witty or not.
Every response to my witty/literary/clever flames has been the same
thing "I know you are but what am I."

I feel like I am insulting an unarmed opponent.


FWA
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson)
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Originator: glp@merlin
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 14:47:12 GMT


In article <1993Jan6.115005.7969@spdcc.com>, joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) writes:

|> A good book will help you go far, but I suspect that buying a few
|> essences will do much better, you can mix them on the skin, and see
|> what happens when they react with your body acids. Patchouli,
|> Bergamot, Attar of Rose, A Vanilla Bean, Essence of Lavender,
|> Calendula, Myrrh, Frankincense, etc. There was an interesting fiction
|> work, "Perfume", by I think Patrick Suskind, but that might be the
|> wrong author. Nicely done.

Almost ten years ago I was in Egypt for a month.
The first day we went out walking in Cairo wearing
(I ::blush:: with embarassment) tshirts, shorts,
and sandals.  How did they know we were tourists?

Anyway, we got snagged by a guy who wanted to 
take us to his "brother's perfume shop".  This
nice young man proceeded to mix together various
oils and essences and apply them to my bare leg
so I could smell them.  When I was satisfied,
he asked me for $50.  Luckily I was so shocked
that I was able to bargain (growing up in So.Cal.
to upper-middle-class parents does *not* prepare
one for bargaining - you pay what is asked or you
don't buy it) and got him down to $5.  

I still have about half of it.  It's sort of a
musky "hippy chick" scent and I will sometimes
put a small amount on and then add a small amount
of something else.  It's very subtle and can't
be noticed unless you get *real* close.



-- 
Greg Parkinson                  Phone: 212-657-7814  Fax: 212-825-8607
Citibank,111 Wall Street        E-Mail: glp@fig.citib.com
New York, New York  10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams)
Subject: ABC's PrimeTime Live
Originator: rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, California
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:48:37 GMT


Last week's PrimeTime Live (you know, the one with Diane
Sawyer and Sam Donaldson) finished up with a cutesy segment
where celebrities of various stripes were taped singing
successive lines from "Winter Wonderland".  Right in there
with Al & Tipper Gore, a chorus of Marines, and others I
can no longer remember, were Barney Frank and his lover
Herb Moses.  Nice touch (awful singing :-()
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: kommotion about Krystal and Krispy Kreme (was Re: Bar etiquette)
Date: 9 Jan 93 10:10:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1993Jan9.101016.25859
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1993Jan9.055923.18179@rigel.econ.uga.edu> hughes@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes) writes:
>In Athens, for many years, the Waffle House at Five Points was
>rumored to be a place where homasekshuls gathered.  

>*I* never found any there.

hon, they were talking about you!

ObNonMotss - no lights in my bedroom tonight, because the way the
moonlight is illuminating my teddybear is just too cute. Why is
moonlight brighter when it's cold out?
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                              Stand up for your love rights
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Glendale
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 13:18:55 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.043332.18658@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com
(Steve Dyer) writes:

>!!!!  Ooh, that's funny; when I am confronted with a hairy Armenian,
>eating comes to mind, but not food...

Food for the gods, Steve, food for the gods!

He wasn't especially hairy, but he was Armenian, and when
George Stambolian's mother would send him packages of baked
goodies, gluttony of the *most* scrumptious sort would
prevail at our place for the brief but wonderful time it
would take us to devour these things.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
From: kfj@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Kirk Johanning)
Subject: Twink-code needed! (WAS: Re: Is Dan Quayle a Twinkie?)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 20:05:52 GMT
Organization: HP Response Center Atlanta

In <1993Jan12.160214.5562@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>In article <wood.726846725@siemens.com> wood@siemens.com
>(Jim Wood) writes:

>>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>>I wasn't aware that "twink" conveyed any such notion of
>>>mental vacuity; I've taken it to be approximately the
>>>antonym of "bear," that is, a (body-) hairless (male)
>>>person.  If it isn't a term assigned by genetic accident,
>>>then it's a (negative) epithet that sensitive, caring people
>>>wouldn't use, right?

>>The physical nature of the twink, as Jess stated above, is one
>>of a hairless, lean, and muscular (but not too muscular) male
>>who aspires towards feminine and currently fashionable ideals
>>of beauty.

>Now this strikes me as *mighty* curious.  I had never been
>even slightly clued that there was a feminine element of any
>stamp in the perceived identity of so-called twinks.  I
>suppose that might have been inferred from the sometimes
>aggressively masculine sources that denounce twinks in harsh
>terms.  But in that case, my contention that it's an
>obnoxious epithet is only strengthened, especially since (at
>least under the formulation I understand you to be
>reporting), it's also tinged with misogyny.

><> Okay, perhaps "insensitive" was a poor choice of words.
><> How about "oblivious?" -- Melinda Shore

Obviously, what is needed here is a twink-code that will need to be
published.  It could then include the absence/presence of feminine
characteristics and 'mental acuity', among such other necessities as
degree of hairlessness, leanness, and muscularity.

-- 
______  Kirk Johanning              ______  The opinions expressed above  ______
\    /  Hewlett-Packard             \    /  are mine and may not reflect  \    /
 \  /   Response Center - Atlanta    \  /   those my employer or anybody   \  /
  \/    kfj@hpuerca.atl.hp.com        \/    else for that matter.           \/ 
Newsgroups: soc.motss