From: as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (andrew david simchik)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: random Ace bashing
Date: 10 Nov 92 05:08:20 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <1992Nov9.200613.10333@wam.umd.edu> jblum@next00clab.wam.umd.edu (The Maven) writes:

>In article <1992Nov6.232100.16528@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>  
>as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (andrew david simchik) writes:
>> In <16866@umd5.umd.edu> jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog  
>here...) writes:
> 
>> >In article <1992Nov5.175614.9564@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>  
>as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (andrew david simchik) writes:
>  
>> >Adric was convincing... for a 14-year-old.  But the character was  
>supposed
>> >to be 16 or 17, and there's a WORLD of difference.  The immature  
>whining and
>> >"you're only a girl" put-downs of, say, "Four To Doomsday" were neither
>> >accurate nor intelligent.
> 
>> They weren't dumb or intelligent; they were just sexist.  I know  
>absolutely
>> brilliant people who are also misogynists.  And I've known people my age  
>who
>> might act exactly like Adric...by the way, did we ever see his age
>> mentioned?  Supposed to be 16 or 17, eh...is this canon?  (heh, heh)

>Granted, it was sexist, but listen to the way Adric says "girrrr-ul."
>It's straight out of junior high school.

No junior high I've ever been to--he didn't drool when he said it.

>And no, it's not canon, but the Davison-era "Doctor Who: The Making of
>a Television Series" quotes Andrew Smith, who created Adric, and says
>that he was 16.  So nyaah.
> 
>> >Adric had moments.  I really liked the character on his first  
>appearance
>> >in "Full Circle", and "Logopolis" and "Keeper of Traken" suggested a  
>great
>> >mentor-relationship with the Doctor.  "Earthshock" worked too.  But so
>> >much of the rest of the time, he was either wasted, or acted so out of
>> >character with those other stories that it makes me cringe.
> 
>> Your opinion.

>Yes, Andrew, my opinion.  The whole paragraph you quoted is in terms of
>"I liked" and "it makes me cringe".  Do I really need to add an IMHO?

No, I just felt like throwing in a random line for no apparent reason.  My
humblest apologies!

>> >Ace, on the other hand, has always had a consistent characterization,  
>and
>> >I _know_ sixteen- and seventeen-year-olds (at my sister's high school)  
>who
>> >have exactly that kind of "I've never had no mum and dad" attitude and
>> >quick temper.  And best of all, she and Sylvester have developed  
>exactly the
>> >kind of mentor-student relationship that they tried and failed with  
>Adric.
> 
>> Note: sixteen or seventeen year olds.  Wasn't that her mum who was a  
>baby in
>> WWII?  How old does this make Ace?

>*My* mother was a baby in World War II.  In 1988, when Ace joined the
>show, I was 16...

OK.  I *was* just asking.

>And could you cite any examples of "infantile" behavior, especially
>more infantile than Adric whining and pouting his way through Monarch's
>ship or mucking about in the TSS in "Kinda"?

Well, how about wanting to bash or blow up everything she meets?  That's not
even mature behavior for a seven-year-old.

>> >>  Sure, he did some pretty dumb things
>> >>from time to time, and the characterization was a bit unrealistic, but  
>he
>> >                                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
>> >contradiction alert!  You just said Adric was a convincing portrayal.
>> >Had to say it.  :-)
> 
>> No contradiction.  It was convincing...just unrealistic.  Think about  
>it.

>I'm thinking about it.  Convincing portrayal of a teenager... yet an
>unrealistic portrayal of a teenager.  I think it was Douglas Adams who
>said that the sign of intelligence was the ability to believe two
>completely contradictory things at the same time, in which case I must
>bow to your superior intellect.  :-)

Convincing and realistic are only synonyms in a broad sense.  I wasn't using
them in a broad sense.

Drewcifer
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho