HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer)
Subject: Re: Setting up serial ports
Date: 04 Jan 93 04:36:35 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Dec30.200952.5153@panther.mot.com> ronf@panther3.panther.mot.com (Ron Feigen) writes:
>Being my first post, I hope this is the appropriate newgroup.
>
>I am a Unix/C/Assembler type that finds himself in the position of having to
>write/port an app. on an IBM PC.  One of the functions needed is to establish
>carrier on a modem.  My problem?  How do I setup the com?: port using 'C'.
>Asking the user to use the DOS mode command would be sort of kludgy.

Well, if you wanted to do what the ms-dos mode command does, it
does an int 21 to set up the serial port. The int 21 is implemented
throught the serial port device driver [also a part of msdos unless 
you've installed a replacement for the default one in io.sys] which
eventually does a BIOS call. The BIOS then talks to the UART directly.

You can of course talk to the UART or the BIOS yourself, and skip msdos
- particularily if you want to program the chip in a method not provided
by msdos/BIOS. The book _DOS Programmer's Reference_ by Terry Dettmann,
published by QUE, covers the MSDOS, BIOS, and UART. [Don't confuse this
book with the microsoft ms-dos programmer's reference - the latter is
only the official programmer's doc for ms-dos 5.]  All C compilers I've
worked with provided library functions for this - check it out.

Someone else has posted how to get the UART spec; you can purchase the
BIOS doc from IBM.

-jen
 Not speaking for microsoft. Just cause I work with msdos doesn't
 mean I'm totally nuts.
 

Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer
From: thebear@QMAIL.slac.stanford.edu (Barry Prentiss)
Subject: DOS Software Developer Wanted
Followup-To: Phone Number Listed
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:46:42 GMT

****POSTED FOR A FRIEND-PLEASE RESPOND TO PHONE NUMBERS LISTED BELOW****


Funding is available for an Entrepreneurial Software Development effort in
the Graphics/Video Applications Software realm...

For more information contact Terry Fockler @ 

														(408) 335-9320 (hm/wk) or 
														(408) 662-5191 (pgr)
From: erica@wariat.org (Lady of the BitMode)
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer
Subject: Windows Borland/Microsoft C/C++ Compilers
Date: 22 Dec 92 04:18:14 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Akademia Pana Kleksa, Public Access Uni* Site


Hi people, it is I once again. I own Borland C/C++ 3.1 compiler && 
applications framework. I was wondering if I could compile programs
written under microsoft C/C++ using my Borland compiler. I haven't tried
it yet, but I wanted to compile some Microsoft source code &&, quite 
possibly, modify it. I guess the only thing that'll hurt would be
incompabilities in library calls, in that case, are the libraries compatible
would be the better question perhaps. Anyway, you get my drift. Can I compiler
a Microsoft C/C++ windows program via my Borland C/C++ 3.1.

Thanxs again,

Erica A. Ramsey
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.lang.c
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 23:15:27 GMT

In <1992Dec29.195705.2444@sequent.com> furballs@sequent.com (Paul Penrod) writes:

>In article <1992Dec29.150728.18195@ra.msstate.edu> chambles@whale.st.usm.edu (John William Chambless) writes:
>>
>>When you mention a "general purpose" language designed by hundreds 
>>of programmers, I think of ADA .... and my reaction is:
>>
>>AAAAAAARrrrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhh!
>>
>>Thank you very much, but no, C is just fine for me.
>>Really.

>ADA: Another Dumb Adaptation...

If we're happy with C (I'm happier with C++, personally), why waste
time and bandwidth bashing someone else's choice?  There are people
who love Ada; let them use it.  What's the big deal?

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
Xref: sparky alt.msdos.programmer:3072 comp.os.msdos.programmer:11757
From: Jon Freivald <jaf@jaflrn.UUCP>
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer
Subject: Re: Is findfirst/findnext deterministic? (same order each time)?
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 93 17:20:54 EST
Organization: The Wizzard's Cave, East Meadow, NY

raymond@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Eric A. Raymond) writes:

> 
> Are the DOS findfirst/findnext directory functions deterministic.
> That is, will they report the files in the same order for a given
> disk?

Depending on the order they are in the directory entry.  Remember that
this can be changed by directory sorting programs such as norton DS,
etc...

> A related question, is the order the files are retrieved based upon
> creation order?  That is, if I create files a, b, c in that order,

?  This is the end of the message as received here...

=============================================================================
                   Jon Freivald ( jaf%jaflrn@uunet.UU.NET )
	 Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it.
		    PGP V2 public key available on request
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
From: maxtal@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (John MAX Skaller)
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Organization: MAXTAL P/L C/- University Computing Centre, Sydney
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 00:30:05 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.184038.20725@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> feldman@speedy.zko.dec.com (Gary Feldman) writes:
>
>More importantly, allowing the assembly language view to influence your
>coding is more likely to be a source of bug-ridden programs, and not
>a preventative.  

	Trying to write programs without understanding machine
principles?

>This is especially true these days when more and more
>programs are being written to run on multiple architectures.  In such cases,
>assumptions made at the assembly level on one machine can be horribly invalid
>on another.  All sorts of things -- pointer arithmetic, alignment assumptions,
>speed assumptions, big endian vs. little endian, regiter behavior, casting
>behavior -- can break.

	How could you possibly understand any of these issues *without*
knowing some basic machine principles?

>
>If your goal is bug-free programs, then except for some limited problem domains,
>it is far more important to really understand the abstract semantics of C 
>independently of any assembly language, as well as quality design and testing
>methodologies.  
>

	I cant agree, if only because understanding the abstract
principles is extremely hard for even the brightest of us.

	For example, what is a 'type'?
	What is an 'object'?
	What is an 'lvalue'?
	What is a 'subtype'?

-- 
;----------------------------------------------------------------------
        JOHN (MAX) SKALLER,         maxtal@extro.ucc.su.oz.au
	Maxtal Pty Ltd, 6 MacKay St ASHFIELD, NSW 2131, AUSTRALIA
;--------------- SCIENTIFIC AND ENGINEERING SOFTWARE ------------------
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
From: gagnonr@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Gagnon Real)
Subject: Re: looking for AMI bios setup guide
Keywords: AMI bios
Organization: Universite de Montreal
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 06:14:12 GMT

>Hi!! I'm looking for some sort of documantation on the in's and out's of 
>messing around with bios.  I've had a lot of little "tweaky" problems in 
>the past, and I've fixed it by altering my bios slightly, but there's still
>a lot that I don't know about the bios.  If anyone knows of any good
>resources, I'd appreciate it!!

  Look for AMIREL.ZIP, available on most SIMTEL20 mirror site.
  For example at oak.oakland.edu, it is msdos/info/amirel.zip

  It contains informations about many AMI bios releases.

-- 
------------------------------------------
Real Gagnon,        Universite de Montreal
                  gagnonr@jsp.umontreal.ca
------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky alt.msdos.programmer:3067 comp.os.msdos.programmer:11751 comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer:724 comp.lang.c++:18637 comp.lang.c:19134
From: Mischa_Sandberg@mindlink.bc.ca (Mischa Sandberg)
Subject: Re: how do you write apps
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 06:06:05 GMT

> Ben Williams writes:
>   Yes, isn't it interesting that two of the most popular general purpose
> languages for writing applications software were not designed to be used to
> write application software.  Has anyone written a general purpose language
> to do what I would think is the most common use of computer programming -
> to write application programs?  And if this/these exist, what are they and
> how do you rate them?  [just curious]

By way of explanation: I cut my teeth on APL and "C", have written
parsers in COBOL and apps in BAL, and have used, in production environments:
PL/I, Algol (HP/3000's, gotta love 'em), Forth, MASM, awk, ST/V and any
number
of one-off application languages. This tedious preface is to head off
those who think what I'm about to suggest is only for pimple-faced
pea-brains: BASIC. That includes some tedious BASIC compilers, as well
as Revelation RBASIC and Visual Basic.

Any language with rich string-handling primitives, a don't-care attitude
towards numeric strings, an interpreter, its own heap management,
and a well-built connection to some sort of keyed file system is
head and shoulders above static compiled language. There is a limit to
the scale of such applications, but there are ever-so-many MORE of them,
than there are of the big crunchers that "need" cobolic efficiency.

What do I work with? SQL, "C" and awk, mostly. But BASIC is my choice
for PC-sized apps, for sure.
--
Mischa Sandberg ... Mischa_Sandberg@mindlink.bc.ca
                 or uunet!van-bc!rsoft!mindlink!Mischa_Sandberg
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Engineers think equations are an approximation of reality.
Physicists think reality is an approximation of the equations.
Mathematicians never make the connection.
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
From: collins@blkbox (Chad R. Collins)
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Organization: The Black Box, PO Box 591822 Houston, TX 77259-1822 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 15:42:04 GMT

noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:

>Hello,

>My wife, who is a database analyst working with DB2, etc. (all IBM mainframe
>stuff), is now interested in learning C programming because of pending changes
>at the company she works.  I, too, have an interest in learning C - I'd like to
>be able to write programs to solve a variety of problems (I've done a lot of
>fairly complex scientific programming with, heaven-forbid, Fortran, so I do
>have some general programming experience).

>Since both of us are newbies in this area, I'd like some advice as well as
>answers to the following questions:

>1) There seems to exist C, as well as C++, and possibly other variants.  What
>   are the differences between these?  Which should we learn first?

	Well, C is basically a subset of C++.... anything you write in C
should be compatible with C++. C++ is an extension of C, which primarily adds
objects. Personally, I prefer C becuase it is well standardized and I frankly
think most of what C++ adds is a waste of time. However, alot of people would
disagree with me, so you might want to look into who and what around you
will be learning. I think if you learn C first you will be safe, just becase
C works with C++ and not vice versa.

>2) We want to do most of our programming on our 386-33 PC running MSDOS 5.0.
>   What C-type compilers exist for the PC?  Which ones are better?  How much
>   do they cost and where can one get them at a discount?

	Well, if you are doing normal DOS programming, I would probably stick
with either Borland C++ 3.1 or Microsoft's C++ (7.0?). They are the two most
common and you will find alot more written for those two compilers... I think
there was a thread on this newsgroup discussin the two. I can't say I have
ever used Microsoft, so I cant speak for it, but I have been happy with
Borland for the most part.

>3) How robust is C compared to Fortran for purely number crunching, scientific
>   type applications on the PC?

	No solid evidence, but my engineer friend uses Fortran for his
classes instead of C.

>4) What books would you recommend in learning C (my wife might want to take
>   classes - I do better teaching myself)?  And of course, since I will be
>   doing programming on a PC, what books would you recommend that are
>   specific to that platform, especially w.r.t. memory management as well
>   as graphics?

 	Well, when I went from Basic to C (one of the best moves I ever made :)
I used to book called "C:step-by-step" by Waite & Prata. It is a very good
book for basic C.... I still use it now when I have to clarify something.
It doesn't cover C++ at all, though, so if you want to learn that you might
want to look for something else.


>Much thanks for your help/advice.

>Jon Noring

Just my $.02

Chad R. Collins
collins@blkbox.com
From: adem@aludra.usc.edu (Hey hey hey....   LUGADIS !!!)
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer
Subject: A couple of stupid questions
Date: 28 Dec 1992 22:32:08 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu
Summary: Everything you always wanted to know about duplex

I have a couple of questions about TSR's and VGA programming.

First, how do TSR's work in MS-DOS?  Are they simply large interrupt
handlers, since DOS can't do true multitasking?  How do I make sure that
it remains resident?

I'm interested in writing a screen saver, and I need to know how to "swap
out" the current screen, no matter what mode it's in.

Finally, can anyone recommend any good books on VGA/SVGA programming?

Gracias very much...

	-ega (not to be confused with EGA)
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer
From: kenmo@industry1.ditt.ns.ca (Ken R. Morris Jr.)
Subject: CA Realizer
Summary: Does Realizer read/write/append dBase dbf's ?
Keywords: Basic Computer Associates
Organization: Department of Economic Development
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:20:09 GMT

Could someone tell me if CA-Realizer reads/writes/appends dBase data files. 
Also, does Realizer run Visual Basic programs or is it a struggle (re-code) ?

Thanks


Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer
From: Gregory_Nouch@mindlink.bc.ca (Gregory Nouch)
Subject: Dialing Program
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 22:38:16 GMT

I'm new to programming in Turbo Pascal and i'm in need of some quick help. A
friend of mine wants a programthat runs through a list of numbers and dials
them. I know this sounds kind of stupid and I should use a terminal program,
but he's in this buisness and he's planning on doing a voice recording. ALL I
I need to know is how to make the numbers circulate from 304-XXXX and end at
304-xxxx.


Thanxs ..


Greg



Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer
From: Marc_North@mindlink.bc.ca (Marc North)
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 00:58:09 GMT

> Jon Noring writes:
>
> 4) What books would you recommend in learning C (my wife might want to take
>    classes - I do better teaching myself)?  And of course, since I will be
>    doing programming on a PC, what books would you recommend that are
>    specific to that platform, especially w.r.t. memory management as well
>    as graphics?


I MUST get up on my soapbox for just a moment and say that I HIGHLY recommend
"PRACTICAL C PROGRAMMING", by Steve Oualline. Published by O'Reilly &
Associates, Inc. ISBN 0-937175-65-X ( Look for a book with a cow on the cover
-- and that's the one! )

This book was, for me, my 'break-through' book. I had bought a ton of other
books before, and all had failed me ( or had I failed them? ). This one did
the trick. It's aimed at both UNIX and DOS users and it will take you from
zero right on up to the point where you will have a good foot-hold into the
language.

After that, go and get a copy of K&R ( "THE C [ANSI C] PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE"
Second Edition, by Brian W. Kernighan and Dennis M. Ritchie. Published by
Prentice Hall Software Series. ISBN 0-13-110362-8 ) and you should be just
fine until you start to feel the urge to spread a bit more and then other
books become quite obviously necessary.

Hope that helped -- and good luck!

Marc


--
Marc North  --  The Lanceholder's Group
Xref: sparky alt.msdos.programmer:3033 comp.os.msdos.programmer:11664 comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer:692 comp.lang.c++:18472 comp.lang.c:18944
From: feldman@speedy.zko.dec.com (Gary Feldman)
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Date: 28 Dec 92 18:40:38 GMT
Reply-To: feldman@speedy.zko.dec.com (Gary Feldman)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Dec25.073517.16089@grebyn.com>, malak@grebyn.com (Michael Malak) writes:

|>It's blase attitudes such as that that are responsible for so many
|>bug-ridden programs.  Besides allowing one to understand what is
|>really going on, assembly is necessary for tracking down compiler
|>bugs.  In my opinion, you cannot be a real C programmer without knowing
|>assembly.
|>
|>There is just _so_ much involved with learning C fully.  Shortcuts lead
|>to mediocre proficiency, which leads to disaster in a language as
|>unforgiving and flexible as C.
|>
|>

That's an interesting perspective, with a good deal of validity, but there
is another side to this.

First, while compilers do have bugs, decent ones don't have all that many,
and they're not all in the code generator.  And while I've found my share of 
code generator bugs, they don't really happen often enough to make that a 
requirement for learning assembly language.  

More importantly, allowing the assembly language view to influence your
coding is more likely to be a source of bug-ridden programs, and not
a preventative.  This is especially true these days when more and more
programs are being written to run on multiple architectures.  In such cases,
assumptions made at the assembly level on one machine can be horribly invalid
on another.  All sorts of things -- pointer arithmetic, alignment assumptions,
speed assumptions, big endian vs. little endian, regiter behavior, casting
behavior -- can break.

If your goal is bug-free programs, then except for some limited problem domains,
it is far more important to really understand the abstract semantics of C 
independently of any assembly language, as well as quality design and testing
methodologies.  

   Gary
   #include <standard_disclaimer.here>
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
From: faustus@ygdrasil.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Wayne A. Christopher)
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Date: 25 Dec 1992 01:55:10 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: ygdrasil.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec24.172333.7339@grebyn.com> malak@grebyn.com (Michael Malak) writes:
> In my opinion, there is no fast track to either C or C++.  I feel the
> following must be learned in order:
>   1) Pascal, with two semesters experience

IMHO, Pascal has nothing useful that C doesn't have, except for array
bounds checking.  You you use C++ you can use a vector class that
gives you that.  I would suggest learning Scheme for a semester or two
and then moving to C++.

>   2) Assembly, learned anywhere, with tinkering on your own

I'm not sure it's so important to really program in assembly.  You
should understand basic machine architecture, and have some idea of
what an instruction set looks like, but writing real code, especially
for a RISC, doesn't teach you all that much.

>   3) C, 2-3 years min. anywhere (college, real world, or tinkering)
> After that you can learn and appreciate C++.  You need to first learn
> structured programming and algorithms, most importantly, linked lists
> and trees.  Since C is tightly coupled to assembly in many ways (C is a
> shorthand for assembly, and C integrates easily with assembly modules),

Two point here.  First, you can start with a subset of C++ that is
close to C, but includes important things such as mandatory function
prototypes and flexible declaration positioning, and add classes and
other OO features gradually.  You don't have to jump into multiple
inheritance the first day.  There are plenty of ways that C++ improved
on C that don't add much conceptual complexity.

Second, it's not right to call C "shorthand for assembly".  One thing
you can say about C and C++ is that it discourages language features
that can't be implemented at compile time, but that doesn't make it
any closer to assembly than any other compiled language.  And most
languages "integrate easily with assembly modules", simply because
that's what compilers produce.

> One reason that FORTRAN is associated with good number crunching
> capabilities is that there exist out there optimized, proven math
> libraries.

The other reason (I think) is that the semantics of fortran array
parameters make it easier for vectorizers and optimizers to handle
loops.  I don't remember the details, but this was behind the
"noalias" controversy with ANSI C a while back.

	Wayne
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
From: pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Organization: The College On The Other Side Of Route One
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 18:23:53 GMT

In article <1992Dec25.050515.20871@ncsu.edu> bank@lea.csc.ncsu.edu (Belgarath the Sorcerer) writes:
=4) Even if you're not going into OOP, do NOT take up Pascal as
=    a road to C. Pascal is a language that assumes you know
=    very little and places lots of restrictions and
=    inhibitions on you. If you already are a traditional-style
=    programmer, you don't need the knowledge Pascal will
=    teach you (modularization, declaration, etc). Go on into
=    C and avoid having to unlearn all the limits Pascal will
=    place on you.

For a person who does not know structured programming ideas, Pascal is a
must. The people who have the most difficulty (in my experience in
teaching C) are those who are experienced in COBOL, BASIC and FORTRAN.

=5) Picking up Assembler prior to learning C isn't a bad idea.
=    Hardly required, tho.

Many explanations of what C can do (and more importantly, what you did
wrong in your program) are best explained to a person who knows what a
computer does and how it does it, a background that is acquired fairly
easily by learning any assembly language. IMO, of course.

Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c