From: marshall@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com (Bob Marshall)
Subject: Re: taunting for 15
Reply-To: marshall@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: LMSC, Sunnyvale, California
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 15:40:45 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.083458.7203@PacBell.COM>, jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM (John P. Gloria) writes:
>In article <1992Sep12.011839.1416@enterprise.rdd.lmsc.lockheed.com> marshall@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com writes:

>>(Geez, I'm gonna be sorry to get into this)

And I was right...

>>As for the last statement above : probably not, if you define an
>>asshole as someone who is unpopular with the majority of players.
>>
>So this is YOUR definition of an asshole. Unpopular?  Tell me,
>were you unpopular during high school/college or just now?

Neither. And I'm certain I'm much more popular than you. Bullies
like you generally are only popular with other bullies, and as far
as I know, the majority of people are not bullies.

>>Personally, I feel that anyone who intentionally wants to verbally 
>>belittle someone, hurt their feelings, etc, is an asshole,
>>
>As you define it yes (in a non-sport arean), but when applied in a 
>sports arean, then you are all wet.

Sorry, I don't go in for double-standards.

>Hey, I could care less if you personally disagree.

I doubt that, seeing how much time you've devoted to this thread. Seems
like you care about this topic a great deal.

>It seems to me that you and the others that are in alignment
>with your views do not have a grasp of competition or the heat
>of battle.  Simply because the possibility of taunting has never
>entered your mind, should not give you the false concept that it is
>categorically wrong or unacceptable in pro football.

I'll state my position again. I think it is categoriically wrong and
unacceptable to purposely demean or ridicule another human being
(especially to their face) and I carry that attitude onto the playing 
field. Otherwise I'm a hypocrite.

>What are you, some sort of righteous, over-protective parent that
>doesn't want his son to be aware of the real world?

Is there something wrong with being righteous? Geez, how do I defend
myself there? And don't worry, my son is well aware of the real world.

>Come on, guys
>like you have no backbone and should be lined up and shot to stop 
>the gene pool from propagating.  Hey, did that get your hair to
>raise on the back of your neck.

Yeah, it made me think "God, this guy is a bigger jerk than I thought!"

>>course, I didn't grow up in the tough environment you apparently grew
>>up in, John, so my perspective is entirely different. I feel that
>>
>Depends on how YOU define a tough environment.  It wasn't tough for
>me as I remember it.  It was very competitive though.  Some of the
>dads where I was raised had boxing gloves and the kids who were not
>afraid, use to have "boxing matches" (I was about 10 years old). If
>you did not fight, you were called a sissy, etc.  Well, I was no
>sissy, so I fought.

That's how I define a tough environment. I was in my share of fights,
but they were certainly not necessary for my survival.

>>>Are non-taunters not assholes.  Come on, get REAL. :-)
>>
>>Well, you were talking about bad logic. Here's a perfect example.
>>The statement "most taunters are assholes" does not imply "non-taunters
>>are usually not assholes". No one ever said that it did.
>>
>Excuse me.  The following is from lines 14-15:
>
>>>>Taunting doesn't indicate skill.  But it either indicates(to me),
>>>>lack of skill or that person is an asshole.
>
>I was referring to whoever that the above statement (there have been 
>several add on comments and it is hard to tell who said what).
>I merely attempting disprove the writer own logic.  The
>poster is imply that taunting equates to being a asshole.
>Therefore, following his logic, a non-taunter are not
>assholes.

You've obviously never taken a logic course in school.

>>As for the real underlying question here, i.e., should players be
>>penalized for taunting; although I certainly done't condone it, I
>>really don't see what good it does to penalize at the pro level. Like
>>I said, I don't think it really affects the tauntee at that level.
>>Since it does not give the taunter's team any edge, then let it go,
>>unless a fight breaks out over it. Then you warn the involved players
>>and tell them they'll be thrown out of the game the next time it happens.
>>
>After all these, you are in essence leaning toward what I have been
>saying for the past few days, i.e., the taunting rule is a dumb rule
>at the pro level.  Amem. There is hope after all.

Yep, that's the only thing we agree on, that it should not be penalized.
I'm just saying that it is socially unacceptable to me, and players that
practice the habit are jerks, but you can't penalize someone for being
a jerk.

That's it for me, I'm killing this thread...

=============================================================================
Bob Marshall                     \\     "It ain't age
Lockheed Missiles & Space Co.     \\     That makes me look this way
Sunnyvale, CA                      \\    It ain't the years, boys,
marshall@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com\\   It's the miles"
"I tell the truth 'cept when I lie"  \\     - Chris LeDoux
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro