HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jareed@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Judith Ann Reed)
Subject: Re: ****SPOILER WARNING**** please try to be supportive
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 06:47:05 EDT

In article <11AUG92.12752120.0052@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> Z57N@UNB.CA (Z57N000) writes:
>I am tired of pretending nothing more happened to me than a simple
>conflict of interest.
>There was another serious molest.
>I am not repeating a flashback. I am not suffering from a hazy memory.
>Iknow that what happened to me happened. I know because the gyn exam I
>received last month turned up sperm.
>I was not just my so-called benefactor's foster daughter.  I was tricked
>into being his mistress.  I did not consent for myself. My resistance
>was worn down. No sleep for some time. Benefactor appearing to have a
>nervous breakdown, and his needing some form of intimacy to drag him out
>of it. virtual begging. Relkie, not wanting to see him in agony, gives
>in after hours and hours and hours of saying, "I wanted to save myself
>for someone I love very much." but of course, he said, i wasn't really a
>virgin anyway so why does it matter? :.(

Relkie, my thoughts are with you. The person who did this to you is just
another slime, another abuser/molester/bastard. Unfortunately, there are
far too many of these, waiting in the wings, till people who have been
abused stumble on them, so they can take advantage of us. After all,
we are "used goods" now, right, so it is no big deal. >:-( When I
escaped my original abusers and went to live with an aunt and uncle, and
told my uncle I had been sexually abused, he subsequently tried to abuse
me himself, but fortunately was not terribly persistent. Then, later when
I was living with my SO, an ex-boyfriend came to the apartment and begged
for "sex", because he was having a crisis - I tried to say no, over and over
again, but in the end gave in. We are only human, Relkie, and very vulnerable
and hurting humans at that, who have been taught that we have no internal
value and that we exist to meet the "needs" of others. You did  your best - 
don't beat yourself up. Unfortunately the world seems to be full of jerks
who are looking for victims, and sometimes they find them/us. I hope you
can get out of this living situation, I hope you can prosecute, but whatever
happens, remember  you must take care of **YOU**!!!! You are precious, you
are important, and you need and deserve help, love, support, therapy,
counseling, retribution, all the good things you've had such a hard time
finding. Please don't give up, and don't let the opposition from those who
refuse to believe you wear you down - you deserve better, much much better.

e-hugs if you want them - please care for you, defy the abusers, and find 
justice in  your life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

changeling

--
 Judith Reed - sysmgr - Syracuse University High Energy Physics
 judith@suhep.phy.syr.edu
 jareed@rodan.acs.syr.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: APS, safety, healing
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:48:36 GMT

Kara Jayne Keeter (kara@BORN.phys.virginia.edu) wrote:

: Fourth:  manipulation.  Manipulation is a sensitive subject for survivors
: who were manipulated as children.  When I think I detect someone trying
: to manipulate me, I get angry.  On the other hand, a lot of times I probably
: am manipulated without being aware of it.  I would like to see asar as a
: place where we can experiment and practise our skills of establishing
: boundaries and refusing to be manipulated.  Specifically, if someone feels
: the need to express that they feel manipulated, I hope we can hear them
: and express our own views without attacking anyone.

It's like abuse - those who were abused often grow up to be abusers.  Those
who were manipulated often grow up to be manipulators.  I know the tendancy
is strong, and I fight it every day (and have friends who help).  Often,
the victim-turned-manipulator is totally unaware of it.
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: fsacp@acad3.alaska.edu
Subject: RAPE and ANGER
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 21:01:29 GMT

Hi again all,

  I was talking with Art last night about the situation with our therapist,
I was telling him that she has really made me think of what I want to deal with
when and if I choose to go back to her (I'm not sure if I do or not).

		******POSSIBLE SPOILER WARNING********	
I started to realize that I have all this anger built up inside of me from when
I was raped, and I have never really dealt with that anger.  Whenever the
subject was brought up I changed it, because I didn't want to deal with the
memories ad feelings that come back when I think about how he raped me.

I didn't want to think about him ramming himself in me from every direction.  I
had started to talk about my past with someone from my 12-step meetings,
actually she's the fascilitator, and when she heard I had been raped 5 times by
the same guy, she asked me "What did you do, set yourself up?"
When she said that, it really made me think.  I told her no it was a guy that I
had grown up with.

I still have a lot of guilt about it, thinking I could have prevented it,
afterall he was younger then me!

I sometimes sit here and think why me.

When I close my eyes at night lately, all I can see is this guy on top of me,
then I start remembering how his breath smelled of alcohol, and how he had
pinned me.  As I write this, I'm sitting here with this awful taste in my mouth
and it's him!

Taking a shower and scrubbing my body all over isn't going to make the memories
go away.

I may have the option to work with a male therapist, depending on his rates and
whether or not he works on a sliding scale basis.

I'm scared and I feel dirty!  I think working with a male will help to bring
out the anger that has built inside of me all these years!

*HUGS* to all who may need them and I could use the support right now
Jay

Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: enigma@netcom.com (Enigma)
Subject: Re: Just a friendly warning...
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 00:30:59 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

Personally, whenever I get the urge to post to soc.women, I go and
pound my head against the nearest wall instead.  The resulting
headaches are much milder, and it accomplishes a lot more.
-- 
Holly McGrath   <enigma@netcom.com> 
1803 Mission Street, #339          
Santa Cruz, CA 95060              
(408) 479-4072  (voice mail)     
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Subject: 48-year conviction
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:33:03 GMT

_Rocky Mountain News_ (Denver), 20 August 1992

Sex abuse leads to 48-year term.

Outraged judges says man who forced stepdaughter into 'six years of
torture' wasn't punished enough

Sue Lindsay

A man who forced his step-daughter into drug-induced orgies for six
years was sentenced to 48 years in prison by an "outraged" judge who
said the maximum sentence wasn't enough punishment.

"The damage that was created is so enormous that no jail sentence
will be sufficient to punish you for the six years of torture that
you subjected a little girl to," Judge Joyce Steinhardt told
Robert Rochefort, 51, in Denver District Court.

"You stole her childhood, and no one can replace it."

The mother, Cheryl Thhgart, was sentenced to eight years in prison
for her part in the assaults.

[The survivor] said she decided to come forward in hopes that other
victims of abuse would do the same.  "I felt like trash, but I want
them to know that we aren't trash, that we can get help, so please
get help," she said.

Her ordeal began when she was 10, soon after her mother married
Rochefort, said prosecutor Karen Steinhauser.  He got them high on
cocaine and then used the mohter and child in a variety of sex acts,
many of which he photographed or videotaped.  At times, he strapped
sexual devices to the girl.

The orgies continued until [the survivor] was 16 and ran away.

[Her] therapist told the judge that the girl became suicidal because
of the abuse.  After one suicide attempt, she said, Rochefort gave
her more cocaine "to make her feel better."

Rochefort's attorney argued that he and Tygart were equally responsible
and should get the same sentence.

But Steinhardt disagreed, noting that Rochefort blamed the episodes
not only on his wife but also the girl.

"He blames her for not resisting and says she was already experienced --
as if that would make the rape of this child OK.  He degraded both of
these women so that he could be more powerful."

Steinhardt also said Rochefort kept photographs of the episodes, which
he "intended to use to keep these women quiet."

"He gave cocaine to a child, totally unconcerned if it would kill her
or she would become addicted -- I'm outraged," the judge said.


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: Z57N000 <Z57N@UNB.CA>
Subject: Re: The Anonymous Service: This Waiter Has A Fake Accent
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:01:33 GMT

I have to go grade papers in an instant, so this will be brief.

I tried to come forward in a public forum, and it backfired.

I tried to make a report to the police a long time ago, and I wasn't
taken seriously (because i didn't run screaming out of the room
afterwards, said the female officer).

I tried not to use names, but I didn't want anyone to be victimized any
longer.

Anything I could say would be taken as manipulative.

I'm sorry I caused all this fuss.

I won't bother you any more.

Beverley White -- ie Relkie
From: Z57N000 <Z57N@UNB.CA>
Subject: Re: This group.
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 15:15:39 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.200639.354@gss.com> johnl@gss.com (John Light) writes:
>In article <19AUG199211053655@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov> aatresa@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (Teresa Kline) writes:
>>For some of us, curling up in a corner is the only defense right now.  What
>>is it that you think we should be learning.  There is a difference between
>>conflict (ie a difference of opinion) and rape (which is what Relkie feels
>>happened to her).  And I don't know what anyone learns by watching or
>>experiencing a rape.
>
>But we're not watching the rape.  We encourage people to tell their stories
>on a.s.a.r., but there is one person who mustn't.  Why?
>
Probably because I'm accusing someone who, up until the advent of khijol
 had a pivotal and influential role (and still does I think) in the
way ASAR works. Depressing but true.
RELKIE
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: RE: The Anonymous Service: This Waiter Has A Fake Accent
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:51:07 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman) wrote:
> 
>If you believe that, then you are clearly ignoring your effect on Relkie.

Relkie probably does not need your protection.  If Relkie is hurting,
it may be best for her to do some speaking herself.  One element of healing, 
which  many of us are getting used to is confronting.  I personally would like
to hear from Relkie.  Possibly she can learn a thing or two about herself,
and become comfortable taking care of herself, her emotions and her needs.
What isn't necessary is for her to have protectors who try to keep her away
from painful situations under the guise of caring, but who are truly
keeping her from learning more about herself, how to defend herself, and
some truly important issues in healing.

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: ftlao@acad3.alaska.edu (OSSANDER LINDA A)
Subject: Re: The Anonymous Service: This Waiter Has A Fake Accent
Summary: THANK YOU SALLY... 
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41.UAC
Keywords: Blame confusion 
Organization: University of Alaska - Fairbanks
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 04:13:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.084627.21629@qiclab.scn.rain.com>, sallyb@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Sally Bowley) writes...
>In article <12AUG92.22401331.0037@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> Z57N000 <Z57N@UNB.CA> writes:
> 
>(stuff deleted for bandwidth)
> 
> 
>i sat back and watched the upheaval in the group a while ago, with
>you, relkie, in the center of it. i watched as fears were voiced - on
>your behalf

Yes Relkie..I was one of them who voiced my concern for you...  But do me a
favor and say what you mean DON'T try to MANIPULATE the group....


> 
>so slowly but surely, the group got back to "normal", more people have
>joined us, discussions have continued, new topic introduced etc etc. i
>gues it began to feel safe again for a lot of folks. now here we are
>again, it seems, with more of what i interpret as incendary comments.
>you say you're not going to name names for fearing of causing more of
>a scene than is necessary. is that what you're trying to do, relkie?
>cause a scene? it seems so to me. and i *sincerely* apologize if i am
>wrong here, but i feel what i feel. if you have a genuine need or
>purpose for posting what you have, then come out and tell us what it
>is, don't make inflamatory half remarks and then back away waiting for
>the fire to start. you say "let's play what do we know here" - that's
>exactly what i feel you are doing - playing a bit of a game. 
>you obvioulsy want some kind of reaction from the group to these
>thinly veiled allegations - what kind of reaction are you looking for?

> 
>then why post this is the first place? what *are* you trying to
>achieve here? maybe i've missed the point entirely and am sincerely
>requesting enlightenment. 
> 
>i feel very disturbed about this and anxious about the type of replies
>i may receive. however, if i've learnt one thing, it's to stand up and
>speak out when something upsets me. this has upset me.

Not only does this upset me I find the whole thing to be so damn
MANIPULATIVE!!   1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10....


>sally
> 
>>RELKIE
>>
>>> 

                            -Linda-
                   FTLAO.acad3.Alaska.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Sherri)
Subject: Re: Just a friendly warning...
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 12:57:27 GMT


Thanks for the warning, Angela, I certainly appreciated it.  I know that
I generally don't mind, in fact I appreciate, story lines dealing with
child abuse, but I prefer to know what's coming.

Speaking of comics, does anyone here read Doom Patrol?  I really liked
the issues where Crazy Jane remembers the past and goes back to the
farm where she was abused, even though I found it an unrealistic account of
integration (MPD type integration).  I don't know many survivors who read
Doom Patrol though.

Sherri



Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: kara@BORN.phys.virginia.edu (Kara Jayne Keeter)
Subject: Re: "go ask alice"
Reply-To: kara@BORN.phys.virginia.edu (Kara Jayne Keeter)
Organization: Dept. of Physics, University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 02:21:22 GMT

In article <cloister.714095305@milton>, cloister@milton.u.washington.edu (cloister bell) writes:
>i was listening to "white rabbit" by jefferson airplane, and the line "go ask
>alice, i think she'll know" reminded me of a book called (i think) "go ask
>alice" that i ran across about 10 years ago.  i recall reading it in a library,
>and feeling a lot of empathy for the girl about whom the book was.  if memory
>serves, the book was the diaries of a runaway girl from an abusive background.
>the author of the book is listed as "anonymous" because i don't think anyone
>knows who the diaries really belonged to.  anyway, i'm posting to ask if anyone
>else has heard of or read this book.  it might have been called "all about
>alice" but something tells me that's the title of some other thing.


Yes, I remember that book!  I think it was called _Go_Ask_Alice_.  I think
I read it when I was in junior high, at the library of the community
college where my step-father taught.  It's been a long while, I don't remember
the details, but yes I think I remember she got involved with drugs
and ran away from home.  I don't recall an abusive home life, but I could
be wrong.  I seem to recall she kept trying to turn her life around,
but she just couldn't... and she ended up dying.

-kk


Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: jareed@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Judith Ann Reed)
Subject: Re: Filing a Police Report -*POSSIBLE SPOILER*
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 07:04:54 EDT

  ********** BRAVO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! **********

  Never tried this, not really surprised at police response, unfortunately
  they probably have little or no experience in this area. But, you were
  incredibly brave and strong, and should be extremely proud!!!!

  changeling

--
 Judith Reed - sysmgr - Syracuse University High Energy Physics
 judith@suhep.phy.syr.edu
 jareed@rodan.acs.syr.edu
From: anon-1160@twwells.com (poohbear)
Subject: down again
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 00:13:44 GMT


Oh shit.  This might end up being a *****spoiler***** so I just want
everyone to beware.

Things suck.  Things really suck.  I ended up at the ER 2 nights ago, and
got 9 stitches from my cutting.  Plus they yelled at me and told me
I should hAVe gotten the ones from last time stiched too.  Then they
told me my arms will be ugly and I should stop.  WHAT THE HELL WHAT
THE HELL WHAT THE HELL  WHY  tell me why they think that telling me
my arms will be ugly will help.  And they all had such an attitude;
sneering "why did you cut yourself?  what did you accomplish?" as if
I were trying to cause them trouble or something.  My doctor doesn't
even know yet; my therapist is super worried and put the emergency
services people on "alert" for me.  So now, if I call, everyone will
panic and they WILL SEND ME AWAY.  Oh God.  

They also told me I now have no more health insurance.  And school is
gonna start, and I am pretending that I am actually going to make it.
Right.  My therapist told me that the school won't tolerate my
cutting and that they'll make me leave.  Oh shit, this is bad.  I am
really screwed.  I am not gonna make it.  



--
To use this service, send EMAIL to:
anon-ping@twwells.com  -- test path/get anonymous id
anon-help@twwells.com  -- for a help message
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anon-0@twwells.com     -- anonymous e-mail to ANON administrator
anon-asar@twwells.com  -- post anonymously to alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1160@twwells.com (poohbear)
Subject: trust and doctors
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 00:15:18 GMT


I told my doctor about my really deep cuts and HE DIDN'T SEND ME TO THE
HOSPITAL!  HE DIDN'T CALL THE POLICE OR EMERGENCY SERVICES!  He told me
to buy special bandaids that can hold wounds shut.  He trusted me.

I feel so good.  I talked about it with him today, and he said he had made
a judgement call.  If he had then heard on the radio that a woman was
found hanging in her apt, he would have severely screwed up.  But he
made a decision, based on how I was on the phone, that I was stable
enough to hang in there, and that the hospital was NOT the way to go.

I feel I have won a battle.  I don't wanna think about the war...

As a side note:  Does anyone know if going to the ER with self-inflicted wounds
means you may have to stay there and go to a psych ward or something?  I know
it is probably particular to each case, but I am wondering.  My cutting
is getting worse even though I am beginning to hAve some good hours.

Also,jareed do you have an anon?  And are you comfortable using it?  



--
To use this service, send EMAIL to:
anon-ping@twwells.com  -- test path/get anonymous id
anon-help@twwells.com  -- for a help message
anon-admin@twwells.com -- ANON administrator
anon-0@twwells.com     -- anonymous e-mail to ANON administrator
anon-asar@twwells.com  -- post anonymously to alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: kara@BORN.phys.virginia.edu (Kara Jayne Keeter)
Subject: Re: trust and doctors
Reply-To: kara@BORN.phys.virginia.edu (Kara Jayne Keeter)
Organization: Dept. of Physics, University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:56:33 GMT

Hi poohbear!

Congratulations on having the courage to tell your doctor about your
really deep cuts.  I know that must have been very scary, with the
threat of being sent to the hospital looming over you.  But it was a
very good thing that you told him, honesty is extremely important,
and I am *so* glad that he trusts you and didn't send you to the hospital!!!
It must feel very good to have such a vote of confidence from him.


>I feel I have won a battle.  I don't wanna think about the war...

You *have* won a battle!!!  Now you have achieved even more trust and 
openness with your doctor, and you have also received trust from him.
You deserve to congratulate yourself on this triumph!  And don't worry
about the war, just take it one battle at a time...   :)

You ask:

>As a side note:  Does anyone know if going to the ER with self-inflicted wounds
>means you may have to stay there and go to a psych ward or something?  I know
>it is probably particular to each case, but I am wondering.  My cutting
>is getting worse even though I am beginning to hAve some good hours.

I'm sorry but I don't have any information concerning ER policies, but I
would like to tell you about a suggestion that used to be posted here on
asar quite often - sorry if you've already heard it, but just in case
you haven't, maybe it can help.

When you have the urge to cut yourself, perhaps instead of using a knife
or something, you could hold an ice cube against your arm (or wherever you
were going to cut).  The ice cube is cold and so it provides some pain,
and as it melts, the water runs down instead of blood... so it could be
an acceptable substitute.  (sorry if the description is too graphic...)
This sometimes helps me.  And if this helps you cut a little less, then that's
good.  There will be good times and there will be bad times... and just
because sometimes the bad times come back, that doesn't mean the good
times won't come back also.

Take care of yourself, poohbear!

-kk

Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery