HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jwa@vipunen.hut.fi (Jyrki J Wahlstedt)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Experiences from Kenya and Tanzania
Date: 20 Aug 92 00:28:47 GMT
Distribution: soc.culture.african
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland

In article <Bt77C2.9t1@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> kautaj@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta) writes:

   [Evil number one. A *finnish* girl shot]
   [Evil number two. The locals good at robbing. However, this didn't happen
		     due to your "friends"]
   [Evil number three. Diseases. Boy! Those diseases!!]
   [Evil number three. A man leaving his wife behind. In a world full of evils]
   [Evil number four. Political oppression]
   [Evil number five. Racist attidudes among the locals. A fellow European has
		     to come to ones assistance]
   [Evil number six. Corrupt officials. Maybe even racists!]
   Going back? Man! You are an angel! I cannot see how you got satisfied with this
   journey! With all its corruption,racism,robbery, etc....Why don't you just 
   come to Disney Land instead?? Or maybe you really like all that so you can 
   come home and write this shit??
------End of quote
  Now, as "kautaj" has told me that I'm an idiot, I might wonder, how can 
  this person be involved in mathematics. One who can not even count from 
  one six without blunders! I always thought that mathematics is rational.
  Also (s)he could have explained why is his/her knowledge so superior to
  mine as to give ground to such flames.

  In general I can't imagine why anyone writes messages like that. Pure
  biting and scorn, no willingness to understand anything..

  Things I've told happened and I hope that what's my feeling or opinion
  is clearly stated. If not, send personal e-mail rather than continue
  flaming here!
--
!
!	Jyrki Wahlstedt
!		jwa@vipunen.hut.fi
!
!  Everything not eternal is eternally out of fashion
!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: antbh@strix.udac.uu.se (Bernhard Helander)
Subject: Somalia: a small but insufficient victory
Organization: UDAC, Uppsala, Sweden
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 07:14:16 GMT

On the morning of the 12th of August 'general' Moahammed Farah Aydiid
finally accepted that UN be allowed to send 500 troops to guard food-
distribution in Mogadishu. The condition he has set is that the contin-
gent should not be labelled 'peace-keeping force' but simply act as
watchmen. Their activities are to be confined to Mogadishu.

This is certainly good news. However, in the long run it may create adverse
effects. It will mean that the pressure on the capital from rural immigrants
will increase further. Although famine is terrible in Mogadishu, it is 
even worse in the rural areas. A few days ago the British network ITN
had a report from Baydhabo, a town situated some 130 kilometres northwest
of Mogadishu. All stores with emergency food had been looted and the team
interviewed a man in his twenties who was lying on the street waiting to die.

The man said in the local dialect 'I came here from Ooflaawe'. I know
Ooflaawe fairly well, having lived there for two years in the course of
my anthropological field work. Ooflaawe was a prosperous place. In fact,
one of the local ethymologies of the name had it derive from 'oof', strength
(in standard Somali: xoog) and 'laawe' = without. The meaning was that
in Ooflaawe one could get rich without effort or strength.

Now that place probably is no more, and it is just one of hundreds of villages
that already have ceased to exist in Somalia.








-- 
*****************************************************************************
*                                  *                                        *
* Bernhard Helander                * Telephone: +46-18-182289 (office)      *
* Dept of Cultural Anthropology    *            +46-18-303448 (home)        *
* University of Uppsala            *                                        *
* Tradgardsgatan 18                * Fax:       +46-18-151160               *
* S-753 09 Uppsala                 *                                        *
* Sweden                           * E-mail: Bernhard.Helander@antro.uu.se  *                                  
*                                  *                                        *
*****************************************************************************
From: Steve.Hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Steve Hayes)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: CRAP FROM UNIV. CAPE TOWN
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 19:41:00 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 5:7101/22.5 - Novell User Group, Pretoria RSA

On <18 Aug 1992 20:36> Olufemi G Anthony (5:7104/2) said to All :

 OGA>All unbiased and unbigoted readers of this net should have 
 OGA>realized by now
 OGA>that Gavan and his cohorts are a subgroup within this 
 OGA>newsgroup. They
 OGA>have "redneck" conversations between themselves and it is best 
 OGA>to leave
 OGA>them in their world of fantasy where white domination will 
 OGA>continue
 OGA>forever. They are in fact, members of the same "broederbond"; 
 OGA>to use the
 OGA>language of the oppressor. It is an unfortunate fact that this 

I should point out, for the sake of accuracy, that in South Africa "rednecks" 
and "Broederbonders" are incompatible.

"Rednecks" (rooinekke) refers to British immigrants who were unsympathetic to 
Afrikaner nationalism.



--  
INTERNET: Steve.Hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org
via:  THE CATALYST BBS in Port Elizabeth, South Africa.
       (catpe.alt.za)   +27-41-34-1122 HST or +27-41-34-2859, V32bis & HST.
From: pieter@ford.ee.up.ac.za (Pieter Vermeulen)
Subject: Re: CRAP FROM UNIV. CAPE TOWN
Date: 19 Aug 92 04:57:17 GMT
Organization: University of Pretoria, South Africa

femibyte@athena.mit.edu (Olufemi G Anthony) writes:

>All unbiased and unbigoted readers of this net should have realized by now
>that Gavan and his cohorts are a subgroup within this newsgroup. They
>have "redneck" conversations between themselves and it is best to leave
>them in their world of fantasy where white domination will continue
>forever. They are in fact, members of the same "broederbond"; to use the
>language of the oppressor. 
Hey, there is no way we would have allowed Gavan into the Broederbond!
The guy speaks english. He doesn't know what a koeksister is. He most
probably does not even own a safari suit. Get real man!


>P.S. Just when will you join the AWB, Gavan, or are you already a member?
And he is not blond either.











Newsgroups: apc.reg.safrica,soc.culture.african,sanet.talk.politics
From: hardy@ucthpx.uct.ac.za (Hardy Hulley)
Subject: Re: CRAP FROM UNIV. CAPE TOWN
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 01:09:38 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3




Now for some entries from that controversial Dr. Eberhard W. Lisse 
diary - courtesy of Stern magazine:

10 August
---------
Zis email iss eine wunderbaar invention, ja - mit ziss vee vould 
probably haf von zee var, ja.

11 August
---------
Mein Gott, zis Henk Coetzee iss eine dumkopf.

12 August
---------
I sink today I vill grow eine mustache - I sink a little black
pencil mustache vill complement my handsome Aryan looks.

13 August
---------
Ja, anozer beautiful day - I sink I vill goose-step to vork today
to celebrate it
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: llk@kepler.unh.edu (Local Genius)
Subject: Re: IPS will continue if you answer this post
Organization: Department of Mathematics
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:46:10 GMT

In article <9v6mhrl.barnhart@netcom.com> barnhart@netcom.com (Aaron Barnhart) writes:
>I happen to have a Peacenet account and can continue the IPS
>African news transmissions so faithfully maintained for us
>by Winslow Sargeant.  But I need your help.
>
>(1)  First, send me your messages of moral support!  Tell me
>     you want to see this service continued.
>
>(2)  Tell me where W.S. left off so I can find my place amongst
>      the zillions of IPS news stories in the lib.  It appears
>      the last post was from an IPS story dateline nyakack, kenya,
>      jul 31, and Written 12:04 am Aug 3, 1992 by newsdesk, headline
>      KENYA: COMMUNITY TAKES CHARGE OF HEALTH SERVICES.
>
>I have a vested interest in that I and three friends now read these
>stories as Winslow posts them and I download and print them.  I would
>continue to do so, but sporadically, if I were just doing it for these
>three.  Tell me you want to see them regularly and you'll get them.
>
>And yes, for those of you saving these via kill files, I will continue
>to support Winslow's subject header syntax of IPS: <subject>..
>
>
>-- 
>Aaron (Barnhart@netcom.com)    |     "It is probable that, after economic
>Evanston, Illinois             |    stability, the greatest single desire
>                               |    in this country is for a reduction in
>Jeremiah 6:14                  |    paranoia."          -- Stanley Crouch

Please continue the service, if you can. The US media is terrible at
providing news from places other than here and WL did as a great
service by providing us with news from Peacenet...

Thanks Winslow...

I'm not sure I could tell you what the last article I read was about but there
*was* stuff on Kenya and possibly other places...

Thanks 

lk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: bg959@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Joel A. Mayer)
Subject: Akwai maijin Hausa?
Reply-To: bg959@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Joel A. Mayer)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 05:22:36 GMT


Gaisuwa mai yawa!  Akwai wani maijin Hausa a nan?  Na zamna shekara
biyar a Jamahuriyar Nijer, amma nan inda ni ke yanzu, a Jihar Texas,
ba wanda na iya magana da shi.  Ina tsoro Hausa ta bace mini... 
Ko wanda yana so "magana" da ni, sai a buga mini wasika a
jmayer@tenet.edu.   Alla ya kai mu. Amin.

				Joel (Yawale)

--
From: barnhart@netcom.com (Aaron Barnhart)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Postings on Islamic and Arabic issues.
Date: 21 Aug 92 02:47:09 GMT
Reply-To: barnhart@netcom.com
Organization: Netcom

>In article <1992Aug12.162307.29772@athena.mit.edu> femibyte@athena.mit.edu (Olufemi G Anthony) writes:
>>
>>Hi, there, my arab friends. I and I'm sure many other users of this
>>newsgroup would appreciate it very much if you would refrain from
>>postings articles that do not deal with the African continent
>>specifically, for example your postings on Bosnia-Hercegovina and
>>Afghanistan etc. I know that you might argue that most of North Africa
>>is arab, and also muslim, but surely there are other newsgroups, such
>>as soc.culture.arabic and soc.religion.islam, that you can post to.
>>
>>Thanx,
>>Femi.


Well, let's not get the car sidetracked here.  Bosnia per se is not
appropriate.  North African relief to Bosnia is appropriate.  The UN
debating Algeria is appropriate.

As an American, I can appreciate the difficult tracking news stories
by region.  It can be confusing and overwhelming.  But my personal
opinion is that the intellectual effort is worthwhile and rewarded
by a twofold understanding (a) that the world beyond our shores is
complex in every way imaginable and (b) we don't know shit about it.

All best to everyone.
-- 
Aaron (Barnhart@netcom.com) -- posting from Evanston, Illinois
From: nicolson@odie.ee.wits.ac.za (James Nicolson)
Newsgroups: sanet.talk.politics,soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Freedom of Expression
Date: 19 Aug 92 07:07:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: odie.nicolson.29
Organization: Wits Electrical Engineering (Novell Users).

In article <1992Aug18.163608.4153@ucthpx.uct.ac.za> gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux) writes:

>laurie@iosys.UUCP (laurie butgereit) writes:
>: Obviously, the ANC believes it is perfectly acceptable for their followers
>: to burn the South African flag but it not acceptable for more conservative
>: South Africans to wave the flag.

When did the ANC object to people waving the "South African" flag?

>Apparently the ANC's story is now that it objects to the playing of the
>anthem over the loudspeakers, authorized by Louis Luyt, bigwig in Rugby
>Admin and Ruler of Ellis Park, although they found singing during the
>minutes silence insensitive, or words to that effect, but conceded the right 
>of the crowd to do so.

>The minutes silence "for all the victims of unrest" was bullied out of
>the rugby board under duress, as was the promise not to play Die Stem or
>fly the current flag.

I think that the main problem with respect to the crowd was that they were 
being asked to do something that they were unable to relate to, and felt "
bullied" into doing. Their reaction was then understandable, and its 
insensitivity should have been expected from white south africans, who 
are not known for their sensitivity.

The ANC has not condemned what the crowd did. They have a problem with what 
the officials did (and didn't do). If the officials felt "bullied" and felt 
that the ANC was "interfering in sport", then why agree to not sing the 
national anthem? The whole affair smacks of the attitude: we'll go along 
with the ANC and let them "interfere" in sport by getting us international 
acceptance and then we'll kick them in the teeth. I can imagine that Steve 
Tshwete is feeling really betrayed.

The rugby officials had a duty to sell the agreement to their 
supporters. Instead, some of them flagrantly undermined it, and then 
discarded it, because "that is what the crowd wanted".

White leaders (sport, political etc.) had better wake up soon and realise 
that they need to do some work in moving their supporters with them. The ANC 
is able to do this fairly well, but white leaders are happy to negotiate 
agreements that suit themselves, without seeing any need for fundamental 
social changes, particularly involving their constituency. Leaving their 
supporters "behind" is also a shrewd political move, because then they can 
rely on a backlash from their supporters, who cannot relate to agreements 
made, and who have not been involved in the debate around these agreements. 
This backlash provides a useful brake on political change, but it is a 
dangerous game to play.


------------------------------------------------------------------
James Nicolson, Department of Electrical Engineering
    University of the Witwatersrand, South Africa
    Private Bag 3, P O Wits, Johannesburg, 2050, South Africa
    Internet Address: NICOLSON@odie.ee.wits.ac.za.
From: Steve.Hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Steve Hayes)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: The ANC and the SACP 
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 15:49:00 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 5:7101/22.5 - Novell User Group, Pretoria RSA

On <11 Aug 1992 22:00> Gavan Tredoux (5:7104/2) said to All :

 GT>have ALL the say. Actually, consensual decision making seems much more
 GT>attractive. Moreover, why should sovereignty be linked to *territory*? Why
 GT>not have ethnic sovereignty within the same territory? Could solve many
 GT>thorny problems.

Are you serious?

The Population Registration Act has hardly been gone a year, and now you're 
asking to resuscitate it!

Who decides what ethnos you belong to, and how do you claim the sovreignty? 
There's enough problems over sovreignty for the Serbs in Croatia - are you now 
proposing it for the Serbs in Johannesburg?



--  
INTERNET: Steve.Hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org
via:  THE CATALYST BBS in Port Elizabeth, South Africa.
       (catpe.alt.za)   +27-41-34-1122 HST or +27-41-34-2859, V32bis & HST.
From: llk@kepler.unh.edu (Local Genius)
Subject: Re: Fax for Somalia....CORRECTION
Organization: Department of Mathematics
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:37:33 GMT

In article <antbh.713788008@strix> antbh@strix.udac.uu.se (Bernhard Helander) writes:
>One of the addresses I supplied earlier was slightly erroneous. An 'f'
>was missing in Boutros Ghali's address. The correct addresses should be
>
>	State_Department@f00912026477120.fax.sunet.se
>
>	Boutros_Ghali@f00912129634879.fax.sunet.se
>
>Hope I got it right this time!
>
It appears there might still be a problem with the State Dept number.
Either it is very busy, they don't want to receive messages, or the
number is incorrect. I have been getting "unsuccessful" messages.

lk(with the man in the yellow hat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: vamg6792@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mtufruti)
Subject: UPI: Government and ANC to discuss resumption of negotiations
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:56:55 GMT


	JOHANNESBURG, South Africa (UPI) -- The African National Congress met
with government representatives Friday to discuss resumption of pro-
democracy negotiations abandoned June 23 by the ANC amid allegations the
government was involved in violence in the country's black townships.
	ANC Secretary-General Cyril Ramaphosa and the minister of
constitutional development and communication, Roelf Meyer, were to
discuss ``the removal of obstacles towards the resumption of
negotiations,'' the ANC said in a statement released Friday.
	``Discussions will focus on identification of steps to be taken to
address the issues raised in earlier memoranda exchanged between the
government and the ANC,'' the ANC said, adding that ``no further
statements in this regard are planned''.
	The meeting came a day after President Frederik de Klerk announced
his white-minority government would go ahead with legislation to reform
the country's constitution in October, regardless of whether the ANC had
returned to the negotiating table.
	De Klerk told a news conference in Pretoria, the country's
administrative capital, the government could no longer ``sit on its
hands.''
	The government wants to negotiate an interim constitution and has no
intention of allowing the ANC to delay progress, de Klerk said Thursday.
	``We dare not permit the negative and confrontational strategy of the
radicals and communists in the ANC to disrupt progress to a full
democracy,'' de Klerk said, but denied he wanted to elbow the ANC out of
the stalled negotiating process.
	He said he wanted to see all the important political players return
to multiparty negotiations. The ANC has warned there was no future in
negotiations that excluded the ANC.
	The ANC withdrew from negotiations aimed at the creation of a new
non-racist constitution, claiming government involvement in politically
motivated violence which has claimed more than 6,000 lives since
February 1990.
	The government has denied the ANC charges regarding township
violence.
	The ANC said it would only return to the negotiating table if the
government met a list of 14 demands aimed at ending the violence and
hastening the process towards democratic elections.
	Without officially admitting to it, the government has met a number
of the demands, including allowing a United Nations observer team into
the country and disbanding controversial military and police units.
	The ANC used the suspension of negotiations to consolidate its
support among the majority of country's black population with mass
demonstrations and industrial strikes.
	Since June 23 the government and the ANC have mainly communicated
through a public transfer of memoranda outlining their positions, and
have only met a couple of times to discuss the release of political
prisoners and the granting of a general amnesty for political offenders.

Newsgroups: sanet.talk.politics,soc.culture.african
From: pieter@ford.ee.up.ac.za (Pieter Vermeulen)
Subject: Re: Freedom of Expression
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:28:49 GMT
Organization: University of Pretoria, South Africa

scott@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Scott Hazelhurst) writes:

>The action on Saturday was a political action. Anyone reading the
>front page of Rapport or seeing Koos van der Merwe on TV on
>Sunday would have seen the oozing self-satisfaction about the
>action. The action shows what many whites think. Politics is
>about changing political views of people. For this reason I
>hope the Australian tour gets called off -- not for vindictiveness
>(although someone like Tshete must feel really cheesed off) but
>to show white South Africans that compromise is necessary in the
>future.
A political statement it was indeed and the question is what the
reaction should be. I'm not too sure if the right reaction is to stop
this and all other rugby tours. It seems to me that sport is just
about the only social bridge builder we have in SA and should therefor
be as apolitical as possible in order to break down barriers.  Which
implies that no-one should attach any political issues to sport (that
way sport will serve a noble political cause anyway :-)  By attaching
a political issue such as the one minute silence to the rugby test,
the whole thing became a political war. Even though it was a noble
idea etc etc, reasoning stops as soon as someone can hang a political
tag to it. It is easier that way; no thinking required.  

Be pragmatic.


>>The same goes for all other aspects of life here. Banish the imposition of
>>national symbols, the naming of things after the objects of personality
>>cults, and all other forms of dictatorship.

>Now this is something I agree with.

It seems to me that a national sport team is very close to a national
symbol. 

Pieter
Xref: sparky soc.culture.african:4310 alt.politics.clinton:2472
From: barnhart@netcom.com (Aaron Barnhart)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: SOMALIA:US delays aid again!
Date: 21 Aug 92 16:42:00 GMT
Reply-To: barnhart@netcom.com
Organization: Netcom

Dorothy Morse <dmorse@igc.apc.org> writes:


>What we need is an equal resolve to get food to Somalians.

>I believe communication with Boutros-Ghali is in order too.  It may
>be necessary just to completely forget the US and hope other countries
>will solve this problem.

>But Clinton should be called, and we should urge him to denounce this
>foreign policy disaster carried on by the Bush administration.

The sooner the better.  The notion that Bush is the man you want
answering the phone in the Oval Office at 3 a.m. is completely
contradicted by the appalling and murderous acts he countenances
at 3 in the afternoon.

>that number again for the Clinton Campaign 1-800-995-2388.

Also remember a large contingent of Internetters for Clinton are
out there, and that the campaign itself may be reached at ...

75300.3115@COMPUSERVE.COM
-- 
Aaron (Barnhart@netcom.com) -- posting from Evanston, Illinois
From: henk@fudd.frcs.alt.za (Henk Coetzee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: The ANC and the SACP
Date: 19 Aug 92 00:31:36 GMT
Organization: FRCS mail/news uucp point


In article <1836.2A8E1421@catpe.alt.za> Steve.Hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org writes:

  > 
  > On <14 Aug 1992 13:29> hllhar01@uctvax.uct.ac.za (5:7104/2) said to All :
  > 
  >  huaz>Well, firstly, the overwhelming majority of South Africans are 
  >  huaz>black, and so
  >  huaz>whites do quite obviously form a minority. Now, let's consider 
  >  huaz>a future
  >  huaz>democratically elected government (if presuming a fair 
  >  huaz>democratic election 
  >  huaz>isn't a touch optimistic in the first place) - by observing the 
  >  huaz>results of 
  >  huaz>elections in other ethnically divided societies, we see that 
  >  huaz>the overwhelming 
  >  huaz>bulk of empirical evidence indicates that the makeup of our 
  >  huaz>government will 
  >  huaz>reflect a severe under-representation of whites. Now, there is 
  > 
  > There will probably also be a severe underrepresentation of left handed 
  > people, of women, of Buddhists, and rugby players. 
  > 
  > 
What does this under-representation really mean. Does it mean that
whites should have equal say in government to blacks, even though
they constitute a minority, often with interests that rely on
the oppression of the majority. Or do those who see ethnicity
as the principle guiding factor in politics (racists?) want a
white veto, as the National Party seems to want?


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Henk Coetzee         |
P.O. Box 26305       |   More arms do not make mankind safer,
Arcadia              |   only poorer
Pretoria             |                    The Brandt report
0007                 |
Pretoria             |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african