HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: johnl@pcx.ncd.com (John Light)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Passive or Attack Belts
Date: 10 Sep 92 01:22:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: pcx.1992Sep10.012239.22489
Distribution: na
Organization: Graphic Software Systems, Beaverton, OR

In article <1992Sep8.221240.17297@viewlogic.com> brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg) writes:
>Mindless, paternalistic idiots are practicing the ancient and completely
>futile art of protecting us from our own stupidity. They make the argument
>of the enormous cost to society because people won't use their seat belts
>voluntarily, but this is sophistry. If we were so concerned about costs to
>society, we would outlaw cigarettes, alchohol, guns, sex, fatty foods, and
>everything else with which people do damage to themselves. People should
>be informed about dangers they may pose to themselves, and given the option 
>of protecting themselves from these dangers, but that is where the
>government's role should stop.

I believe there is a societal cost of the injuries that people inflict on
themselves.  The feds went overboard solving the problem with legislation
because Detroit fucked up.

During the 70s, shoulder harnesses were mandated.  The European cars of the
day had wonderful inertial reel systems (e.g., Audi 100ls, Saab 90, etc.)
They were comfortable, and they worked.

Detroit, on the other hand, didn't want any safety mandates, so they spent
the decade proving to their customers that shoulder harnesses were 
uncomfortable and clumsy.  The result (of this and other idiocy) is that
smart customers looked to Europe and Japan for cars, and many Americans
still believe that seat belts are part of the international Communist
conspiracy.

If Detroit had engineered their seat belts to be comfortable, people would
have used them, and we might be spared the idiocy of motorized seat belts
and the cost of air bags.

John Light
johnl@gss.com

(I believe that most government stupidity is the result of clumsy bureaucratic
responses to real problems caused by the testosterone clouded minds of our
business leaders.  Remove the glass ceiling, welcome everybody to participate,
start doing the right thing, and government won't need to intrude in our
lives anymore.)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mike%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu (Mike Suter)
Subject: Re: GMs plan: New Credit Card (MC, then possibly VISA)
Organization: BITS, St. Louis, MO
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 03:38:13 GMT


>There is a maximum credit of $500 per year for a maximum of 7 years.
>According to Today's WSJ, you can also get extra rebates with purchases
>at MCI, Avis, Marriot, and some other companies.  (The story is on page B6.)


Yeah, but is the $3500 off of list (which I suspect), or after your best
deal?

Mike
-- 
mike%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: chohan@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Harpal Chohan)
Subject: Re: Door Horror
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 18:11:41 GMT

In article <BuBKEI.9to@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan) writes:
>
>In article <ILH.92Sep9095500@winnie-the-pooh.lcs.mit.edu> ilh@lcs.mit.edu (Lee Hetherington) writes:
>>
>>That reminds me.  The parking lot at my old high school had their
>>lines repainted from perpendicular to angled.  The idiot painting them
>>did not realize that by angling the lines the spaces got narrower.
>>They were ridiculously narrow.  There's one person who did not get
>>much out of math/geometry class!
>
>I guess I didn't get much out of my math classes either. I always
>thought that if you take a rectangle of width W and rotate it by X
>degrees about one of the vertices the rectangle still had a width of W.

"rotation" is not "angling". A rotated "rectangle" is still a rectangle.
However, if you skew the angle between the base and the sides to 
obtain a general parallelogram, the perpendicular distance between
its sides decreases; with it being maximum at 90 degrees (rectangle),
and collapsing to 0 at the limiting case of 0/180 degrees. The distance
varying as "p = b sin (angle)", b being the width at the end.

>Try it yourself: take a rectangular piece of paper. Orient it at right
>angles to the edge of your desk, forming a perpendicular "parking space"
>(for a Matchbox car ;-). Stick a pin through one of the corners, and
>rotate the paper by 45 degrees about that pin to form an angled
>"parking space." Has the width of the paper changed?

Forget the pin. Try collapsing a rectangular frame by changing the
angles of its corners to something other than 90 degrees.

-h
From: ccm038@astro.ucdavis.edu (Jason Yan (can cook))
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Cellular Phones....
Date: 9 Sep 92 16:35:35 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis

In article <BuBDvy.7zH@wpi.WPI.EDU> beuf@wpi.WPI.EDU (Richard J Fuller) writes:
>
>Ok what I want to know is what these things really cost to 
>operate...
>
>
>It is very easy to get an entery level phone for FREE or for a modest cost 
>($50-$100)
>
>But what I want to know is what the thing will cost me to operate....
>
>
>I understand that you pay a company like cellular ONE a monthly fee plus usage fees according to some pre arranged plan...  But it thst the only cost or do
>you also pay a reglar phone pbill on top of that????
>How is long distance figured out...  Is it based on where your car is when you place the call or is it based on some local point of reference......


Well, GTE Mobilnet has two contracts (I think there may be a third now)
that you can sign.  All are one year deals.  In the first contract,
you pay a monthly $45, and each minute of phone time you are also
charged 45 cents a minute from 7am - 7pm on weekdays.  All other hours
including weekends is 20 cents per minute.

The second contract is $24 a month, however, peak hour usage charges
are doubled, costing 90 cents per minute (ouch).  But off peak hours
are also 20 cents per minute, like the 1st contract.  

So, if you call a lot, then the $45 plan is probably the way to go.
If you seldom make calls and only use it for emergencies, then
the $24 plan should suffice.  But one thing to note is that you
are charged for phone time even if you didn't dial that call!
i.e. if someone calls you, not only does that person pay whatever
his/her side of the toll charges, you still have to pay GTE Mobilnet
for phone time!  Also, if your cellular's base is, let's suppose, in
the 415 area code, and you're in Davis, California - if you make a
call to the 415 area code, you are charged for phone usage, but not
toll, because your base is in the 415 area code.  Also, you might
incur what are called "roaming" charges, that is, they charge you
for leaving your local area base.  However, I have never had that
happen to me.  Seems to be okay within a 100 mile radius.  

I heard somewhere that there is another plan now where you pay a
fixed charge every month (don't know how much) and get to call
as much as you want.  

Hope that answers your questions.  By the way, cellulars, from my
experience are not very useful except when you are stuck in the
middle of nowhere and there's not a living soul in sight.  That's
when you need a cellular.  Otherwise, the novelty will wear off
pretty quickly.

Good day.

					Jason Yan
					ccm038@fred.ucdavis.edu

From: rjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Schneider)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:08:15 GMT
Subject: Re: Tires
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.autos

brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg) writes:

>I think you mean Michelin MXV, and you might want to avoid them because
>they evidently are lousy in the wet. I would suggest you get the best 
>tires you can afford. Tell the dealer to put on a set of Michelin XGT's
>(or XGT H4 if want all season), and tell him you will pay the excess
>over $400, which will probably be about $200. Believe me, it is worth it.
>
>- BK

	I would be cautious with the XGT recommendation. My 1991 Dodge 
	Spirit R/T came with XGT V4's and they absolutely sucked in the
	rain. I replaced then with Dunlop D40-M2's and it was a world of
	difference. The XGT's were hydroplane city at anything above 55
	in moderate rains. The D40-M2's seem more than happy at 70+ in
	moderate rains.

	Basically, my opinion of the XGT-V4's was they were good on dry,
	sucked/deadly in the rain,  ok to good on snow, sucked/deadly on 
	slush, and were mediocre on ice.

	If you are in an area where it rains a lot, my advice is to skip
	the XGT's. In fact, you might want to skip Michelin altogether.
	Has Michelin ever made a tire that didn't suck in the rain?

Bob Schneider     rjs@fc.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan)
Subject: Re: Door Horror
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:09:23 GMT


In article <RRUSK.92Sep9142351@rcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com> rrusk@ssd.csd.harris.com (Bob Rusk) writes:
>On 9 Sep 92 16:27:52 GMT, tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan) wrote:
>
>>In article <ILH.92Sep9095500@winnie-the-pooh.lcs.mit.edu> ilh@lcs.mit.edu (Lee Hetherington) writes:
>>>
>>>That reminds me.  The parking lot at my old high school had their
>>>lines repainted from perpendicular to angled.  The idiot painting them
>>>did not realize that by angling the lines the spaces got narrower.
>>>They were ridiculously narrow.  There's one person who did not get
>>>much out of math/geometry class!
>
>>I guess I didn't get much out of my math classes either. I always
>>thought that if you take a rectangle of width W and rotate it by X
>>degrees about one of the vertices the rectangle still had a width of W.
>
>>Try it yourself: take a rectangular piece of paper. Orient it at right
>>angles to the edge of your desk, forming a perpendicular "parking space"
>>(for a Matchbox car ;-). Stick a pin through one of the corners, and
>>rotate the paper by 45 degrees about that pin to form an angled
>>"parking space." Has the width of the paper changed?
>
>BZZZT!  WRONG!

BAANT!! Sorry, but YOUR "WRONG" is WRONG. (See my earlier post for a
complete explanation).

Thanks for playing anyway! ;-)

>The painter or the person who payed the painter did indeed screw up in
>not separating the sides enough.

Really? And how do you know?

Unless there has been a screwup in the attributions, the original poster
was ilh@lcs.mit.edu (Lee Hetherington), and you are
rrusk@ssd.csd.harris.com (Bob Rusk). Did you go to the same high school
as Lee? Are you, in fact, Lee Hetherington, posting under another name?
Or were the attributions screwed up, and you really are the original
poster? If you're not, YOU DON'T KNOW which method was used to create
the angled spaces. So take your buzzer and park it. ;-)
From: brandt@axon.cs.unc.edu (#66 Andrew Brandt)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Replacement tires for Inifini Q45
Keywords: infiniti, tire, quiet, wet
Date: 11 Sep 92 18:09:28 GMT

I need to replace tires on a Infiniti Q45a.  The originals are
Michelins, but now Infiniti is using a new Dunlop (I think) an 80
model, which is different from the new high-performance SP8000.

I am concerned with mainly two things:
	1) Good wet performance
	2) Quiet ride

The original Michelins (I forget the model) are not particularly quiet.

The car spends it winters in the Northeast so snow and rain considerations
are important.

I'd like to know a few things:
	What is the deal on the new OEM Dunlops that Infiniti is using?
	Are they the same tires (SP8000's) that replace the good ole D40's
	Or are they different (80's) and are they any good, they are
	sure expensive > $150.

	Recommendations for a good, wet handling, quiet tire.
	Including different sizes (for example if the car is OK with
	245-55-VR-16s then say so).  Some tires I was considering were
	the new Dunlops SP8000 or old D40, Yokohama AVS U+4 (better rain/snow)
	or A+4 (higher performance), Bridgestone RE-71, or Pirelli P600 or P500

	I am less concerned with treadwear and cost, and more
	concerned with handling (wet/dry) and low noise.

I subscribe to both Car & Driver and Road & Track but I did
not see any past issues with pertinent tire tests except C/D's 
test from a few years ago where the Michelin XGT's won.

Please mail me directly and I will summarize all responses.

Andy
--
                                       _______
                                      |  ___  | `I regret to say that we of the
  Andrew Brandt (brandt@cs.unc.edu)   | | ? | |  F.B.I. are powerless to act in
  Department of Computer Science      | |___| |  cases of oral-genital intimacy,
  Univ of No Carolina at Chapel Hill  |    __ |  unless it has some way
         Springsteen Rules!           |       |  obstructed interstate commerce'
  Go Heels!  Eagles dominate the NFL!  |_____|             -- J. Edgar Hoover
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: finnegan@invader.navo.navy.mil (Kenneth Finnegan)
Subject: Re: Fog out of A/C Ducts
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-6197]: invader.navo.navy.mil
Reply-To: finnegan@navo.navy.mil
Organization: Grumman Data Systems	
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 19:43:13 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.185636.15779@infonode.ingr.com>, lester@naomi.b23b.ingr.com (Les Bartel) writes:
|> In article <92252.215420U53519@uicvm.uic.edu>, <U53519@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
|> |> The Air Conditioning ducts on my Infiniti G20 blow a white, mist-like fog
|> |> when the air has been on for a while.  No odor.  The flow seems inter-
|> |> mittent, as if a result of the compressor cycling on/off.  Any ideas
|> |> on what's going on?  Is it Freon, and am I about to die from inhaling it?
|> 
|> I had this happen on two of my cars a '76 Pinto and an '81 Mustang.  In
|> both cases, the heater core was corroded (externally visible after I
|> removed the core) and had just begun leaking.

Don't panic yet.  Usually with a heater core leak there is SOME smell
of burning coolant evident.  It sounds as if you are seeing simple
vent condensation, which will occur on days when the humidity is high.
When the compressor cycles back on, condensation will form at the
vents.  It should quickly dissipate as the air in the car is again
dehumidified.

Kenneth
finnegan@navo.navy.mil


           "Nasty, smelly things, motorcars......."
                                                -Grandfather Potts
                                                 [Chitty Chitty Bang Bang]
From: ae454@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul Simundza)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Hyndai Excel
Date: 14 Sep 1992 01:28:07 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ae454@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul Simundza)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, djs1539@cc.utah.edu (SEGAL, DAVID JAY) says:

>In article <Bu4tHA.EzH@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v069pff7@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Snake-Eyes) writes...
>{ 
>{I am thinking about purchasing an '88 Hyndai excel. can anyone who owns one 
>{tell me what they think about it...thanks
>{-Joel
>

one of my friends has an 88' Excel, I think it is a pretty nice car, if you
could get it for a good price..his is a 4 speed....

-- 
Paul Simundza                  | Cleve.Freenet: ae454@cwru.edu
                               | Compuserve: 71441.217@compuserve.com
                               | CSU(Internet): pauls@madnick.cba.csuohio.edu
From: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: I HATE SHABBY MECHANICS
Date: 10 Sep 92 20:38:14 GMT
Reply-To: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ronald Bense)
Distribution: na
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.autos, jsb@ecl.psu.edu writes:

>the whole bullshit auto maintainence system that really sucks.
>I can't think of any other large group of "highly-trained professionals"
>that is enshrouded by such a huge cloud of horseshit.

Maketing personel, perhaps. :) A college degree to BS and eat and drink
at the company's expense and earn sinful amounts of money.

Ron

Potassium Benzoate included as a preserver.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Subject: Re: Passive or Attack Belts
Originator: brad@buck
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 23:56:43 GMT


In article <1992Sep15.144700.7031@en.ecn.purdue.edu>, kwan@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Yik-Yin Edwin Kwan) writes:
|> I just have the driver side motorized seatbelt on my Probe replaced,
|> because it got stuck halfway between the A and B pillars the other day.
|> The mechanic said the moving buckle, the track and the motor are 
|> manufactured as 1 assembly, and cannot be taken apart.
|> 
|> I spent $487 for the whole thing!  Arrrgh ...
|> 
In this situation, or actually long before this situation, I would have
ripped out those silly things and installed some good, old-fashoined,
far superior, manually operated 3 point inertia reel belts for less
than half the price.
From: ac579@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (G.C.J. Timm)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Recommendations for old pickup?
Date: 12 Sep 1992 21:14:44 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


Drop back to the late '60's!

The '70's trucks had terrible rusting problems!

Jeff
Who owned a rusty 1976 Econoline E250, despite wax, work and
touchups!
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: kherron@ms.uky.edu (Kenneth Herron)
Subject: Re: Passive or Attack Belts
    <1992Sep8.191543.4729@berlioz.nsc.com>
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 03:40:33 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

alan@lancaster.nsc.com (The Hepburn) writes:

>People tend to think that the motorised belt will protect them and therefore
>neglect to buckle their lap belts.  Also, I don't know any statistics but I
>think that a belt that is attached to the door will not be much use in a
>collision that forces the door open.

Off the subject a bit, but I used to work for a towing service and
as I recall, this sort of thing doesn't happen very often.  Actually
I was rather amazed at what you could do to a door and still have
the latch work.
-- 
Kenneth Herron                                           kherron@ms.uky.edu
University of Kentucky                                      +1 606 257 2975
Department of Mathematics           "Thanks to the magic of the slow-motion 
camera, we can now show you how ugly the inside of someone's mouth can be."
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: minor@rtsg.mot.com (Kevin Minor)
Subject: Re: Saturn, Honda, and Japan
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:17:48 GMT

dmarshal@Stars.Reston.Unisys.COM (Dave Marshall) writes:

|>Honda: The esteemed Mr. Joe has put forth the argument that Honda Accords
|>should cost more in the US because Pontiac Grand Ams cost more in Japan.
|>Um, Honda Accords are made in America.  (At least a very large majority.)
|>Honda has been running a plant in Marysville, Ohio for 10 years.  Most of
|>the employees are Americans, and they tend to make better wages than their
|>UAW counterparts.  I remember reading last year that the '92 Accord is
|>considered to be an "American car" by US Government standards.  I believe
|>that status results when 75% of the parts are manufactured in the US.

|>Not only are the Accords you see here made here, but they are also exported
|>to Japan.  A separate assembly line at the Marysville plant converts cars
|>to right-hand steering wheels.  (Take note, Ford, GM, and Chrysler!)

I recently saw stats saying that Honda exports more vehicles from the US
than the big 3 combined. This stat came almost in the same breath as
the announcement that Buick will start making right-handed steering
wheels for export. It is about time the US manufacturers wisened up. Isn't 
that a little bold... I mean I didn't know until recently that the US
car manufacturers made no effort to conform the steering wheel for export
to Japan. I can't believe considering this that the big 3 can whine about
not exporting enough cars to Japan when they wouldn't even move the 
steering wheel over. I don't think many Japanese cars would selling here
if they didn't move the steering wheel over...
-- 
	/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\
	|	Kevin Minor	UUCP: ...uunet!mcdchg!motcid!minor	|
	|			Mail: minor@rtsg.mot.com		|
	\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Subject: Re: Passive or Attack Belts
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 13:27:49 GMT

golder@ppd.kodak.com (Patrick Golder) writes:
>This has to be one of the dumbest ones they've ever come
>up with (IMHO), since the belts are only semi-automatic (ie. you still have 
>to manually buckle the lap belt).  If you don't use the lap belt (and from
>what I've seen, most people with these things don't), you still aren't
>protected in an accident.  I'd guess the result would be similar to getting
>clotheslined.  You're probably better off without any belt.

The results are exactly the same as getting clotheslined -- you get
strangled.  I don't recall the initial source of this information but
there was a Boston Globe article in the automotive section talking
about the passive belts a few months ago and they mentioned it, as did
another article about a police officer who was thrown from his car and
killed due to a door-mounted belt.

I had heard that the NHTSA was in the process of mandating airbags and
eliminating the motorized belts altogether.  That's fine by me, I want
those motorized belts out of there.  I dunno if the rumor was true,
but I sure hope so.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: pan@panda.Stanford.EDU (Doug Pan)
Subject: Recommendations for Ford/Mercury mechanic
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: ba
Date: 5 Sep 92 10:18:31

Can anyone recommend a mechanic for my 83 Mercury Capri close to the
Stanford campus?  Thanks.
From: jim@mwhhlaw (James P. Cavanaugh III)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Why a Mercedes Benz 600SEL?
Date: 14 Sep 92 12:34:08 GMT
Organization: Martin Wade Hartley & Hollingsworth


	Hmmmmmmmm.  400 h.p.  400 ft. lbs of torque.  5300 lbs.  Dual  
air conditioning.  This 600 SEL is starting to sound a lot like the 64  
Imperial I recently sold (sniff.)  
	That car was maybe $7000 brand new (but I doubt it).  I suppose  
that prices in general may have increased by a factor of 5 since then  
(but I doubt that too)(maybe someone has current information on this).   
That means I should be able to have an equivilent today for about  
$35,000. (or less). How much is that Mercedes?
	So here's the question:  If cars today are twice as good as  
cars of 25-30 years ago but cost 4 times as much, what are they - twice  
as good or only half as good?

Jim Cavanaugh
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 18:56:14 EDT
From: <WJT101@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Avanti automobiles

Hello,
Does anybody know the current status of the Avanti motorcar company?
I read there is some "reorganization" going on with the firm and that
 they will be back making cars again in 1993 or 1994.  Recently, I saw an
 ad saying "Avanti factory is making cars again" but the dealer only listed
 "new" '90 and '91 cars for sale with no mention of 92's or 93's.
 Does anyone have additional info??  Thanks!
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: chungy2@aix.rpi.edu (Yau Felix Chung)
Subject: Sports Utilities....
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 21:34:39 GMT

Hello all!  I was wondering if anyone could give me some reviews about
sports utilites.  Specifically about the Rodeo, Explorer, Jimmy and Path
Finder.  I have been contemplating on buying a Sports Utility but have
yet to decide which one is "best".

-F.

Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech