HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: keith@majestix.cs.uoregon.edu (Keith Steiger)
Subject: Re: Ramsey Theory Games (Was: New Old Paper and Pencil Game (Sim))
Organization: University of Oregon Computer and Information Sciences Dept.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 05:15:14 GMT

In article <11079@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> warwick@cs.uq.oz.au writes:
>mjd@saul.cis.upenn.edu ("[*] Fan of the Efts") writes:
>>So when (C) two players take turns
>>choosing the numbers 1 through 9, and no number may be chosen more than
>>once, and the player who choses three numbers in arithmetic sequence
>>loses, there can be no draws.
>>This game has no name yet, so far I know,
>>so let's call it `van'.
>No, let's call it misere tic-tac-toe, numbered:
>	1 2 3
>	4 5 6
>	7 8 9
>Eot cat cit.

No, (2 4 6) would be a losing sequence in `van', although not in `misere
tic-tac-toe'.  Other examples: (2 3 4) (3 4 5) (5 6 7) (6 7 8) (1 3 5) (4 6 8)
(5 7 9).  That may be all, but don't quote me--I don't jump to conclusions
without giving the matter some thought.  ;-)

	Keith Steiger
	"The game wouldn't be fun on paper, but in your head it might be good."
From: neilb@scs.leeds.ac.uk (Neil Bowers)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: Sprouts -- a topological game
Keywords: sprout, sprouts
Date: 15 Nov 92 21:28:11 GMT
Organization: The University of Leeds, School of Computer Studies
Originator: neilb@csparc2

hallyb@globbo.enet.dec.com (John Hallyburton) writes:
>Sprouts:  Uses pen and paper, or equivalent.  Initially some number of dots
>are drawn on the paper.  Play alternates, where each player draws a line
>connecting any two dots, and draws another dot somewhere on the line.
>Subject to the restrictions that:  (1) No more than 3 lines meet at any
>"point", and (2) No lines may cross.  First player unable to play loses.
>
>[example game deleted]
>	
>I think this was another SciAm game from days gone by.  It gets pretty hairy
>after about 7 points.

One book says sprouts was invented at "Cambridge University a couple of
decades ago".  Does anyone have any more details on sprouts? Strategies?

Thanks,
Neil
From: dbh@doc.ic.ac.uk (Denis Howe)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: Commercial Abstract Games: Icehouse
Date: 23 Nov 92 11:27:32
Organization: Computing Department, Imperial College, London, UK
	<1992Nov20.192951.29273@oz.plymouth.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk
In-reply-to: sos@oz.plymouth.edu's message of 20 Nov 92 19:29:51 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.192951.29273@oz.plymouth.edu>
sos@oz.plymouth.edu (Steffan O'Sullivan) describes "Icehouse":

>Each player has 15 pieces: five each of small, medium, and large
>pyramids.  (Worth 1 point, 2 points and 3 points, respectively.)
>There is no board, but each player has a "stash pad", a piece of
>cardboard where his unplayed pieces are kept.

What's the geometry of the game?  What are the relative sizes of the
pieces, are they triangular- or square-based pyramids and how are the
positioned relative to each other (apart from pointing at the ceiling
or at each other)?
--
Denis Howe <dbh@doc.ic.ac.uk>
So Biggs, you're the idiot who bought all these IBM PCs.  You're fired!
From: jerry@uni-paderborn.de (Gerald Siek)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: The Biggest Number Game
Date: 16 Nov 1992 11:52:28 GMT
Organization: University of Paderborn, Germany
Reply-To: jerry@uni-paderborn.de
NNTP-Posting-Host: planck-bb.uni-paderborn.de
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Toby Donaldson (tjdonald@neumann.uwaterloo.ca) wrote:
: I propose the following rules for "The Biggest Number Game"
: (as my brother calls it).
: 
: 2. Number must be specified exactly. That means you can't write down something
:    like "My number is equal to the total number of electrons in the observable
:    universe".
:       
: 4. You must be able to specify your number on one side of one sheet of paper.

But what is an exact specification on a sheet of paper???

That reminds me of a paradoxon, described by Rudy Rucker in one of his
books (can't remember the english title, it's a book about infinity in
mathematics, physics and philosophy).   Rucker asks:

Is there a largest integer number that can be described by 20 or less words?
(or 200 or less characters or any arbitray limit)

He gives a few examples and then states that this question cannot be answered
in sensible way.   If n would be the largest number that can be described
by 20 or less words then:

"The smallest number that cannot be described by 20 or less words"

is obviously a description for n+1 with less than 20 words.   And how about

"The smallest number that cannot be described by 20 or less words plus one" ?

Comments?
--
  Gerald Siek  -  jerry@uni-paderborn.de  -  University of Paderborn, Germany
From: john@gu.uwa.edu.au (John West)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: Othello
Date: 16 Nov 1992 07:02:15 GMT
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: mackerel.gu.uwa.edu.au

baljeual@uther.calvin.edu (Alan Baljeu) writes:
>>. enough interest.
>I ever did.  I've always managed to win my games by forcing my opponents
>to give up edges to me.  After that, they always lose quickly.  Another 

Thats how I usually play, but I always win in a much more spectacular fashion
when *I* give the edges the *them*. Usually give them the corners too. The
idea is to give them control of most of the edge, and the corner, but leave
a hole in the edge, which you can grab right near the end. This gives you
the side (minus the corners, but they aren't really all that important).
Of course, it is much easier to stuff up a game when playing like this, so
spectacular losses are about as common as spectacular wins. I just need more
practice.

>fun strategy is to try to get as few squares as possible, until my opponent
>has to forfeit.  I don't know if that works in real games,

Works when I play... Limit the moves available to them, and they'll be forced
to go somewhere very very bad. It also helps to arrange things so that you
*can't* go somewhere bad. Skipping a turn is much better than giving away half
the board.

John West
--
For the humour impaired: Insert a :-) after every third word
From: jerry@uni-paderborn.de (Gerald Siek)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: Abalone.
Date: 16 Nov 1992 11:58:00 GMT
Organization: University of Paderborn, Germany
Reply-To: jerry@uni-paderborn.de
NNTP-Posting-Host: planck-bb.uni-paderborn.de
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Howard Ship (hship@sw.stratus.com) wrote about Abalone:
: 
: First, it stalemates easily.  It needs a rule like go's "ko" rule.

I've never played Go (though I have a general idea of the game rules).
Could you give an example of the "ko" rule?

--
  Gerald Siek  -  jerry@uni-paderborn.de  -  University of Paderborn, Germany
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: dwr2560@zeus.tamu.edu (RING, DAVID WAYNE)
Subject: Re: New game: Think Small
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:12:00 GMT

darse@cs.UAlberta.CA (Darse Billings) writes...
>>Just so everybody knows, I sent the number 4.
>
>Curiously, consider the consequences if one player shows everyone else that
>she has sent the number 1.  Now what do you do?  If everyone else acts
>rationally, avoiding 1 because it is a sure loss, then she wins.  Therefore,
>someone must act either irrationally, or superrationally!

Now I'm VERY curious. Did any of the 12 others actually roll dice or something
to determine whether to sacrifice yourselves? What probability did you use?

Dave Ring
dwr2560@zeus.tamu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: positron@engin.umich.edu (Jonathan Scott Haas)
Subject: Re: Abalone.
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 07:33:29 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <1e82c8INNolv@uni-paderborn.de> jerry@uni-paderborn.de writes:
>Howard Ship (hship@sw.stratus.com) wrote about Abalone:
>: 
>: First, it stalemates easily.  It needs a rule like go's "ko" rule.
>
>I've never played Go (though I have a general idea of the game rules).
>Could you give an example of the "ko" rule?
>

Sure. Firstly, the main capture rule in Go is that if you surround a stone
or army (filling all of its "liberties"), you capture it. Now, consider this
situation: (x: black, o: white, .: empty)


                    . . . . . . . .
                    . . . x o . . .
                    . . x o . o . .
                    . . . x o . . .
                    . . . . . . . .
                    Black to move.

Suppose that black plays in the "hole" formed by the white stones. That leaves
this position:
                    . . . . . . . .
                    . . . x o . . .
                    . . x . x o . .
                    . . . x o . . .
                    . . . . . . . .
                    White to move.

If white were now to play in the same place his captured stone was, we'd be
left with the same situation above. This could go on forever, so the ko rule
states than a move which exactly recreates a previous position is illegal.
White must play somewhere else. After white's play, black can then fill in
the "hole" himself, or play elsewhere, leaving white free to retake.

If the above situation were part of a critical position, and the player able
to fill the hole would gain a substantial advantage, we'd have what is called
a ko fight. After black's initial capture, white must play elsewhere... and if
he wants to win the ko fight, he'll make a play that constitutes so great
a threat to black that black must respond. (This is known as a "ko threat").
After black responds, white can retake... and then black must find a ko
threat of his own. When one player runs out of ko threats, the other will
fill the ko and win the ko fight.

-- 
__/\__  Jonathan S. Haas         | Jake liked his women the way he liked
\    /  University of Michigan   | his kiwi fruit: sweet yet tart, firm-
/_  _\  positron@engin.umich.edu | fleshed yet yielding to the touch, and
  \/                             | covered with short brown fuzzy hair.
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: bednarek@picard.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971)
Subject: Re: Chess variants (was Chess in non-euclidean space)
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Magnetic Resonance
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 12:40:23 GMT


Here is another variant.  Six people play long distance
chess with each alternating moves, but they cannot talk
to each other.  Why did joe move my horse there!!!!!!
and if still is to easy one can be a traitor as in
the earlier proposal?

Any takers?


--
---------------------------
| UP TIGHT                 | 
| OUT OF SIGHT             |
| EVERY THING IS ALL RIGHT | 
___________________________

The usual disclaimer of self
 and employer applies to all
 above comments.
#
From: ridgway@sdphu1.ucsd.edu (Douglas T Ridgway)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: Go-moku and variants.
Date: 19 Nov 92 01:13:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: network.1eepnqINN492
Organization: Physics Department, UCSD
NNTP-Posting-Host: sdphu1.ucsd.edu

In article <Bxs8En.MzF@cantua.canterbury.ac.nz> wft@math.canterbury.ac.nz (Bill Taylor) writes:
>Go-moku, more popularly known in the West as "5-in-a-row", will be familiar
>to all readers here.  The Japanese version has many artificial restrictions
>on the first player, intended to make the game more even. These have never
>had much following in the West, whose players (being mostly mathematicians
>& programmers) prefer the "cleaner" version, (and deal with the advantage
>of first move, (if at all), by playing pairs of games). In the usual western
>version, lines of more than 5 win (i.e. exactly 5 is not required); there
>are no restrictions on "double-3"s; and the board is infinite (in principle).

Does anyone know a precise statement of those restrictions?

doug
dridgway@ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: charlie@uk.tele.nokia.fi (Charlie Brown)
Subject: Re: Shogi
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications, Cambridge, UK
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:59:10 GMT

>>>>> On 18 Nov 1992 12:07:14 -0600, mjensen@cs.utexas.edu (Marc S. Jensen) said:

Marc> Does anyone out there play Shogi (Japanese Chess)?  I have heard vague rumors
Marc> that there's a Shogi server "in someplace like Finland", but haven't been 
Marc> able to get details.  Anyone know?

Marc> If you haven't tried Shogi, and if you're the type who likes to do really 
Marc> twisted things to chess, you ought to try it.  Requires a *lot* more careful
Marc> thought than chess.  There is a SHOGI-L mailing list at LISTSER@TECHNION.BITNET
Marc> which has details like rules, board setup, etc.

I doubt if there is a Shogi server in Finland, but I could be proved
wrong.

The SHOGI-L mailing list has a Shogi ladder, with about 30 people on
it, from complete beginner to mid-dan range.

If you already know about the LISTSER, then register yourself on it
(I can't remember how - try sending mail with SUBSCRIBE SHOGI-L in the
subject and text or something).

Once you are registered, or if you have trouble registering, then
mail me at the following address (I am the ladder co-ordinator).

  dac11@phx.cam.ac.uk
  (Adam Chalcraft)

  PLEASE DO NOT MAIL TO THE From: ADDRESS ABOVE.

- Adam
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: blum@medici.ils.nwu.edu (Dan Blum)
Subject: Re: Think 2nd Small
Reply-To: blum@ils.nwu.edu
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:30:04 GMT

I don't know about Ring, but I wouldn't trust anything Jim has to say.
No offense :).  Actually I think they're both fibbing, so I sent 5.

--
_____________________________________________________________________
Dan Blum           Institute for the Learning Sciences   Room 327
blum@ils.nwu.edu   1890 Maple Ave., Evanston, IL 60201   708-467-2306

"Not in the least; if I had failed, they would have shot me."
_____________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: boll@CS.ColoState.EDU (dave boll)
Subject: Othello
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 20:02:32 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department


  OK, all you Othello fans, here's a question for you:

  What is the shortest possible Othello game that *doesn't* end in
  a wipeout? (I assume people have seen the 11 move wipeout opening).
  I've got a sequence of moves that lead to a position where neither side
  has a move on move 53, but I know that is far from the minimum since
  I was playing a computer game once and had this happen on move 30something.

  But, I didn't record the moves. Any ideas?
-- 
     ------------------------------------------------------------
     Dave Boll  boll@handel.cs.colostate.edu
                "The speed of time is 1 second per second"
     ------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: davidal@comm.mot.com (UK702 DavidAlexander)
Subject: Re: Othello - Windows Reversi
Organization: Motorola Land Mobile Products Sector
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 13:49:04 GMT


In article <walker.722135660@s1.elec.uq.oz.au>, Steven Walker writes:
|>
|> I have just finished an undergraduate thesis on getting a neural
|> net to play Othello. With no search whatsoever the neural net
|> can now compete evenly with Expert level on the Windows game.

This is very interesting.  If I may be so bold as to ask a few questions :

    i) What language was it written in (or was it hardware)?
   ii) What type of neural net was it?
  iii) How many nodes/connections did it have?
   iv) Have you entered it in any competitions?
       (I presume not from your article.)
    v) How fast is it?

TTFN
David

P.S. I tried to mail you walker@elec.uq.oz.au but received an unknown host
error, any ideas?

================ All opinions are mine and not Motorola's =================
===========================================================================
=Internet : davidal@comm.mot.com  = X400-gateway : CDA004                 =
=@mail : David Alexander          = Daytime telephone : +44 (0)276-413340 =
=        Channel Tunnel Software  = Evening telephone : +44 (0)276-24249  =
=        Motorola Ltd.            =========================================
=        Lyon Way                 = Excess on occasion is exhilarating.   =
=        Camberley (ZUK20)        = It prevents moderation from acquiring =
=        Surrey GU15 3QG          = the deadening effect of habit.        =
=        United Kingdom           =           - W Somerset Maugham -      =
===========================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: hachipma@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca (Hugh Chipman)
Subject: Re: Think 2nd Small
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:37:38 GMT

In article <1992Nov22.172020.15577@newstand.syr.edu> pksuk@mothra.syr.EDU (Peter K. Suk) writes:
>I am starting another contest.  The winner of this contest is the one
>who sends me the 2nd-smallest real number between, but not including,
>3 and pi.

This is clearly very different from the other game. I don't know if I
like it as much, since there are an infinite (but countable) number of
distinct guesses between the lower bound and any other guess. The
"second smallest" rule does little to clarify what a winning strategy
might be. There's too much freedom in the guessing to allow for mind
games, like you could imagine in version 1, where we had integers >= 1.
There you could think things like "I'll guess 1 because no one else
will. but wait, what if someone else thinks this? I won't guess 1. What
if everyone else is thinking this? Maybe I should guess 1. then again,
maybe I should guess 2." and so on.

I'd like to see another version of game 1 played, since the capacity
for mind games probably won't diminish until about the 100 game mark,
as long as the results are always published after each game.

After saying all of this, I'm still interested in seeing what the
winer is...... :-)

also: I'm not sure about the original post, but if we were allowed to
send in algorithms which could refer to the results of all other
algorithms sent it, this might be more interesting. On the other hand,
then nobody would win, because the algorithms would probably get stuck
in an infinite loop. 

Hugh Chipman -- grad student --  Department of Statistics & Actuarial Science
hachipma@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca   University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON., N2L 3G1
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Abalone ; Mornington Crescent.
From: wft@math.canterbury.ac.nz (Bill Taylor)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 02:33:22 GMT
Organization: Department of Mathematics, University of Canterbury

Abalone ;  Mornington Crescent.

I've seen these two games referred to in the group, but haven't seen rules posted.

Could someone please do the honours, and post them ?

Much obliged.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Bill Taylor              wft@math.canterbury.ac.nz
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Committee - a group of men who individually do nothing,
               but collectively decide that nothing can be done.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: LIPSCOJA@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu (Andy Lipscomb)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: PENTE: rules
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:42:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Nov18.154257.6664
Organization: Vanderbilt University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.21

> 	Pente is played on a 19x19 grid (a go board) with players taking black

Actually, I have read that a Pente board is only 15x15.


Andy Lipscomb
lipscoja@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu (Bitnet: lipscoja@vuctrvax)
Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian.
From: starback@student.docs.uu.se (Per Starb{ck)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Othello search space (Was: World Othello Championships)
Date: 15 Nov 92 12:19:35 GMT
	<TOMF.92Nov12103920@ai.gte.com>
Organization: Uppsala University, Sweden
NNTP-Posting-Host: minsk.docs.uu.se
In-reply-to: tomf@gte.com's message of 12 Nov 92 15:39:20 GMT

Tom Fawcett <tomf@gte.com> wrote:
> No, it [Othello] hasn't been solved, and probably won't be.  The
> search space is estimated to have about 10^60 nodes, [...]

What kind of fancy combinatorics do you need to get to that number?
--       "
Per Starback, Uppsala, Sweden.  email: Per.Starback@student.docs.uu.se
 "Life is but a gamble!  Let flipism chart your ramble!"
Newsgroups: rec.games.xtank.programmer
From: wk5w@brain.med.virginia.edu (William Katz)
Subject: HP 9000/700 series code?
Organization: Neuroclinical Trials Center, University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:44:59 GMT

Well, we just got some HP 9000/730's and I wanted to see how my
beloved Gnat would do with plenty of power available.

I ftp'ed xtank over, set the -DHPArchitecture, did the imake
thing, knocked out the annoying redeclarations in common.h,
and then ran "make".

After trying to patch yet another file due to incompatable declarations,
etc. I am calling it quits.

Does someone have an Xtank already up and running on a HP 9000/700
series machine?  Is there some patches I can use?

-Bill
From: sdoran@sam.ksu.ksu.edu (Steven Marcotte)
Newsgroups: rec.games.xtank.programmer
Subject: 3d Xtank
Date: 19 Nov 1992 00:10:07 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sam.ksu.ksu.edu


	This may be a FAQ so pardon me if it is.  I am wondering
has anyone written the 3d libraries for Xtank.  I noticed that 
there was a menu item to turn on 3d mode, but it seems not to 
work.  I looked at the 3d code and the routines were just null 
functions.  Am I missing something, or havn't these been written
yet?  Thanks...
 
Steven

--

.sig under repair