HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: M.Kossa@FREC.BULL.FR (Marc Kossa)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Software on Unix.
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:05:34 GMT
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet

Dear fellow netters,
I was wondering if any of you knows about software to help learn japanese,
under Unix and X11. All I see is software for MS-DOS, but Unix would be
more convenient for me.
Thank you all !
--
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| Bull SA, BP 208, 1 Rue de Provence, 38432 Echirolles CEDEX, FRANCE |
| M.Kossa@frec.bull.fr | Phone : 33 76397500 ex 7421 | Office B1-163 |
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"Soyez sage les enfants"                        - Robocop in "Robocop"
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: circuit@convex.csd.uwm.edu (circuit)
Subject: Re: OTAKU
Originator: circuit@convex.csd.uwm.edu
Reply-To: circuit@convex.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 07:14:44 GMT

From article <36166@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, by tkim@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Tonghyun Kim):
> Someone mentioned that the word "OTAKU" ("you" OR "fanboy/nerd" as a
> slang) has a feminine flavor. This is very different from my 
> understanding of the word "otaku". Can anyone give me an insight on this?

	OTAKU I believe really means home, house, residence. And Otaku
used in slang as Computer-Otaku, Techno-Otaku, Manga-Otaku etc etc..
Probably refers to that fact that that's all these people do. IN other
words stay HOME and do their hobby all the time. 


	Anybody want to elaborate...


C()
-- 
circuit@convex.csd.uwm.edu
From: jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: gitaigi,giseigo,giongo How 'bout someslang hogen busting...
Date: 29 Jul 92 22:12:42 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1992Jul29.192237.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu>, rrwest01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
> I have a Japanese/English disctionary that lists in an appendix page after
> page after page of "onomotopaeic" words like koro-koro, peko-peko, etc.
> Anyone who tries to make a list of these terms [besides reinventing  the
> wheel] is going to be in for a shock: they are legion.
> 
> I don't have the dictionary with me, but I'll get the bibliographic info
> and post it soon. Kenkyusha is the publisher.

Not everyone's going to have access to the dictionary...  Besides
regional words are always fun, not to mention more slangy things
aren't likely to be seen in any books other than maybe Dave Specter's.

I seem to recall hearing of a book devoted specifically to onomotopaeia.  There
was a list I saw once at the Fukui-ken Kenminkaikan of just Fukui
O. words.  Wonder if anyone from Fukui is watching...  What about from
Hokuriku koko?
-- 
jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
James Miller

_chicchai .sig no ho ga ichiban iin janai ka_
From: tygar+@cs.cmu.edu (Doug Tygar)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: kanji of the day #21
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:50:00 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <9207230921.AA24842@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu writes:
>A provokative statement:
>When you learn Japanese, the worst thing you might do is starting to
>read the GENJI NO MONOGATARI. Its value for the understanding of modern Japan
>is nil. This can be likened to the complete irrelevance of HOMER for the
>understanding of modern Greece. BTW: The "Genji" has been translated
>to all major European languages.

I found Homer extremely useful for understanding Western culture.
If nothing else, it aids understanding of Western art and literature.
Try reading Joyce's Uylsses without knowing the Odyssey.  And it would
be pretty hard to understand a Trojan horse or the face that launched
a thousand ships without knowing the Illiad.

Similarly, Genji Monogatari and Heike Monogatari gave me huge insights
into Japanese culture.  If nothing else, at least I can now follow many
of the plots in Kabuki, Bunraku, and Nogaku.
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: ASH733@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU ("Akiko S. Hosler")
Subject: Re: racism in Japan
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:42:36 GMT

     Talking about "racism" and "ethnocentrism".....  As a sociologist,
  I prtefer to use these words in specific circumstances and avoid
  using them interchangeably.  To me, the definition of racism is
  something like this; " To separate and differentiate a certain
  social category (of people) by an arbitrary selection of physical or
  biologically transmitted characteristics."  Racism , first of all,
  has a purpose ... to take out a social (or economic or political)
  privilege from a certain set of people so that the rest of the
  society would benefit.  Second, the physical marking that is supposed
  to be important (skin color, hair form, etc.) depends on the dominant
  belief in each society.  There is no uniform or scientific criteria
  to determin who belong to what race (think about how "mixed" racial
  people are treated in different societies.  In other example, the U.S.
  uses basically "black" & "white" dichotomy but in South Africa and
  some Latain American soceities, they use "black" "white" & "colored" or
  "mulatto" categories to differenciate their people). And finally,
  racism makes most sense in a society where assumed "racial" differences
  are closely tied to the existing social class or status differences.
  Racism becomes integral part of a society where people of different
  physical features coexisted and interacted to each other for a quite
  long time (thus it becomes institutionalized).
     Now for ethnocentrism.... ethnocentrism is a natural response of
  people when tbey encounter a different ethnic group... it is a
  feeling that one's own culture is normal, correct, and even superior
  than others'.  Especially ethnocentrism is evident in a very culturally
  homogeneous society where people have a limited contact with outsiders.
  While "race" is a socially constructed,artificialy concept, ethnicity
  is much more real... it is a feeling of sharing a sense of "peoplehood"
  (according to Milton Gordon) ... sharing a common language, behavior
  pattern, attitudes and history.   Thus "ethnocentrism", an expression
  of the ilogical love of one's own ethnicity, is much more benign than
  racism.  Racism has a mean purpose.  Ethnocentrism (at its pure and
  naive form ) has no purpose.
     It is quite obvious to me, that the Japanese (of my generation) are
  ethnocentric than rasist.  I have to point out, however, that the
  Japanese invasion to Asian nations during the world war II was clearly
  the case of racism.

  Akiko S. Hosler
  Ph.D. candidate
  Dept. of Sociology, SUNY Albany
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: ecovingt@SDCC13.UCSD.EDU (Maiko Covington)
Subject: Re: racism in Japan
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 00:13:28 GMT

Race vs. ethnicity? Well.... ethnicity has to do with the culture you are
practicing, whereas race has to do with things like happening to have the
genes for black skin or white, blue eyes or green, I think
		Maiko Covington

Example: How about 3rd or 4th generation "Japanese Americans" (just an example
here, and not to say that I totally agree with the term) who have never been
to Japan, do not speak any of the language at all, and who don't really have
any ties with the culture anymore? Are they Japanese? I'd say they are racially
, yes, but maybe not ethnically anymore. Maybe this is bad example (Maiko
pulls up the asbestos undies).
From: mchen@Bonnie.ICS.UCI.EDU (Morison)
Subject: ojama suru/shitsurei suru question
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Date: 31 Jul 92 17:53:28 GMT

Hi,
	Could someone tell me which phrase do Japanese people use when
then enter someone else's house?  Do they say "ojama shimasu" or
"shitsurei shimasu?"  Also, could someone give examples in using both
of these phrases in other situations?  Yoroshiku onegai shimasu.

Morison
****************************************************************************
Morison I. Chen			       |"He who is not contented with what
Undergrad., Info. & Computer Sci. Major| he has, would not be contented with
University of California, Irvine       | what he would like to have."
EMail: mchen@bonnie.ics.uci.edu	       |            --Socrates (470?-399 BC)
****************************************************************************
From: etkovacs@UNITY.NCSU.EDU
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: Software Mangajin
Date: 24 Jul 92 02:45:00 GMT
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet

Re Mangajin-

The address for subscriptions is :
Mangajin, P.O. Box 49543
Atlanta
GA 30359

Individual price of magazine is $4.50, US subs are $30.00/10 issues a year.
I like the mag a lot, but, then, I really like pictures.

sorry this took so long to post...
evatc
etkovacs@unity.ncsu.edu

( no, this is not a paid endorsement. )
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: anil@CS.TITECH.AC.JP
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: racism in Japan
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:36:23 GMT
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet

smittie writes:
Ethnicentrism cannot be a form of racism since ethnocentrism is based on
ethnicity and racism is based on race. Ethnicity and race are not synonymous.
Both are forms of prejudice.
:
smittie

At the Int. Assoc for Students Against Rascism conf in 1985:
1) Rascism was defined as the power to ACT in a discriminatory (see 3) way
against (some pre-defined set of) groups
2) Prejudice was defined as rascism without the power to act
3) Discrimination can be positive or negative

Racsism is therfore emodied in the action of an employer who decides to
put his prejudice into effect. If the ACT is a policy of the institution, then
it becomes institutionalised rascism.

For example, Japanese banks add -2 points when assessing non-japanese liability
as a potential credit card holder. There is also a miscellaneous subjective
point value added by the bank to decide whether you can have the card/loan.
Most assesors give an extra -2 bonus points to those who cannot speak
Japanese.

Prejudice is just the feeling of the people who take no
action, or who have no power to instantiate their feelings.
This viewpoint gives a perspective for passive and active rascism.
Although they might feel that they want you to *go back home* they are unable
to
put their feelings into actions.
In Britian the actions of these *powerless* proles lead to "ugly scenes".
By virtue of their prejudice becoming an ACT it becomes rascism.

These were the views of the keynote speaker at that time, as far as I can
recall.
I must apologise for not being able to remember her name.
The conf. was held at Newcastle University.
Without going into much more detail I would refer you to
the work by Chandra Bhatia (Community Relations Officer, Ilford)
who has written in depth on the subject.

Anil Bhatia
From: thutt@THAMA1.APGEA.ARMY.MIL
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: (none)
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:15:00 GMT
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet


    subscribe "Taylor" "Taylor W. Hutt"
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: pjyamamo@watdragon.waterloo.edu (Peter Yamamoto)
Subject: Re: Sneezing
Organization: Data Structures Group, C.S. Dept., U. of Waterloo
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 20:18:51 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.162635.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> rrwest01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>Well, maybe I'm crazy after all, but it seems to me that when Japanese people
>sneeze it actually sounds rather like "hakyshon." Is anybody out there bold
>enough to agree with me? I seriously think that so-called onomatopaeic words
>in a language influence the way people produce "automatic" sounds. After all,
>a Japanese who is suddenly hurt will cry "itai!" or "aitatatata...!", whereas
>an American will just as spontaneously and unreflectingly say "ouch!" or 
>"ow!"
>
>How do you say "achoo" in other languages?

And how about "achiii"? (from atsui?)

I got so used to achiii, I can't remember what I used to say!-)

Peter
From: harry@issun1.kfk.de (Harald Kucharek)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: new kana learning software, looking for testers
Date: 29 Jul 92 08:32:14 GMT
Reply-To: harry@issun1.kfk.de
Organization: Kernforschungszentrum Karlsruhe


Yesterday I finished the first version of a program which is made to help
you learning the kana. It prints out pages, where in the first line the
romaji of the kanas are written, then in the next line there is some place
to fill in the kana and in the next line, the kana is written. The kanas are
mixed by a random generator, so it doesnn't helps if you can memorize & write
them in the usual a i u e o ka ki ku ... order. The compound kanas for
sha, shi,shu, rya,rya,ryu... etc are also included.

The program is written in PostScript, all you have to do is to set some parameters 
and send it to a PostScript printer. You can choose between 
Katakana and Hiragana and define, which subset of them do you want to have
and which area of the page should be filled.

It is the first version of the program and I am know looking for people, who
would like to test it. They should have a little bit experience in PostScript,
at the moment, the documentation is poor.

The compressed and uuencoded file has ~20kBytes.

Any interest?

    Harald Kucharek ($B>.?M(J), Nuclear Research Center Karlsruhe, IDT
		7514 Eggenstein-Leopoldshafen, Germany
         Internet: harry@issun1.kfk.de Phone: +49 7247 825706 
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: mathias@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Gerald B. Mathias)
Subject: Re: kanji of the day #21
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:12:40 GMT

In article <9207230921.AA24842@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu writes:

>        **
>        **      ******************  <- lid of a shellfish (?)
>  **************        **            The ancient form of this top part is
>        **        **************      like "knife":   ********
>        **        **          **                         *   *
>  **************  **          **                        *    *
>  **    **    **  **************                       *    **
  [kanji slightly edited for space]

The "ANCIENT" form?  Ouch!  That's mean.

I haven't entirely broken the habit myself, in spite of a natural tendency
to prefer the easy way.

How about "A slightly obsolescent form ..."?

Bart Mathias
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: rrwest01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: gitaigi,giseigo,giongo
Organization: University of Louisville
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 23:22:37 GMT

I have a Japanese/English disctionary that lists in an appendix page after
page after page of "onomotopaeic" words like koro-koro, peko-peko, etc.
Anyone who tries to make a list of these terms [besides reinventing  the
wheel] is going to be in for a shock: they are legion.

I don't have the dictionary with me, but I'll get the bibliographic info
and post it soon. Kenkyusha is the publisher.
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: phr76as@vmsa.technion.ac.il
Subject: Bio-Medical research
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 09:48:41 GMT

                >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
                Bio Medical Engineering - JAPAN
                <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I'm interested in information about academic institutes doing
Bio Medical Engineering research in Japan.
Any information would be appreciated, especially bitnet addresses
and Prof.s names.
The aim is using the Mitsubuhu scholarship for research studies.

        Thanks,
        Ygael Grad
        Tel Aviv University

Please send your reply to ====>   ygael@genius.tau.ac.il


Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: rrwest01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Sneezing
Organization: University of Louisville
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 20:26:35 GMT

A recent posting happened to mention "hakushon" as the Japanese equivalent of 
"achoo." That brings to mind something I'd been wondering.

Well, maybe I'm crazy after all, but it seems to me that when Japanese people
sneeze it actually sounds rather like "hakyshon." Is anybody out there bold
enough to agree with me? I seriously think that so-called onomatopaeic words
in a language influence the way people produce "automatic" sounds. After all,
a Japanese who is suddenly hurt will cry "itai!" or "aitatatata...!", whereas
an American will just as spontaneously and unreflectingly say "ouch!" or 
"ow!"

How do you say "achoo" in other languages?
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: molenda@i1.msi.umn.edu (Jason Molenda)
Subject: Re: nai desu
Keywords: adjective, desu 
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 22:56:50 GMT

mathias@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Gerald B. Mathias) writes:

>In article <1992Jul21.144451.20103@u.washington.edu> yoichi@milton.u.washington.edu (Yoichi Ii) writes (`mo^shiwake nai' no chinami ni):
>>
>>There was a series of article in fj.sci.lang (?) regarding the appropriateness 
>>of the "nai desu" construct, but I didn't really understand it.  Perhaps 
>>someone could explain it to me.

>As luck would have it, I was cleaning up my HD yesterday and deleted my copy
>of that thread, but see whether we agree in gross outline.

In case anyone cares, I collected it up (I keep about 60 days of fj.*
here at MSI) and have it available by anon-ftp;
msi.umn.edu[128.101.24.1]:~ftp/pub/nihongo/naidesu.tar.Z.  I _think_ I
have the whole discussion in the tar file.  I just grepped through the
directory, so it isn't exactly the most accurate collection.

I'll remove it in a week or something.
-- 
Jason Molenda, University of Minnesota, Supercomputer Inst., Technical Support
SGI Iris Admin        molenda@jason.msi.umn.edu       Dod #1867     '77 CB750F
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: mathias@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Gerald B. Mathias)
Subject: nai desu
Summary: Sometimes a copula is not a copula
Keywords: adjective, desu 
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:53:23 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.144451.20103@u.washington.edu> yoichi@milton.u.washington.edu (Yoichi Ii) writes (`mo^shiwake nai' no chinami ni):
>
>There was a series of article in fj.sci.lang (?) regarding the appropriateness 
>of the "nai desu" construct, but I didn't really understand it.  Perhaps 
>someone could explain it to me.

As luck would have it, I was cleaning up my HD yesterday and deleted my copy
of that thread, but see whether we agree in gross outline.

As I recall, it started with someone suggesting it was perhaps odd that people
often say `nai desu' when there is the perfectly good word `arimasen.'
     `Nai desu' should be wrong; `nai' is an "i" adjective (keiyo^shi), and
copulas don't come after adjectives--one doesn't say *`nai da' or *`oishii da'
etc.  But `desu' is a form of the copula, so how can one say `nai desu'?
     Such was the introduction of the problem, as I recall it.

I have a colleague, co-author of one of the lesser used Japanese language text-
books, who insists that `ii desu,' etc., is ungrammatical for the above reason.
It has always tickled me that he readily uses the expression `nai desu' when
he could avoid the "ungramaticality" by saying `arimasen' instead.  That's why
the thread interested me.

I don't remember the denouement in fj.sci.lang, and that is probably the part
that Mr. Ii is curious about (maybe someone will follow up?).  But the 
solution to the problem as I have stated it is fairly simple:

The so-called "copula" in Japanese is nothing like "be, is" in English.  Its
forms have the function of marking the end of a clause (when necessary and not
otherwise marked), indicating the tense of a clause (when necessary or desired
and not otherwise marked), and indicating the style (politeness level) of a
clause.
     *`Nai da' is out because the `-i' handles all three functions and `da'
is totally redundant.  `Nai desu' is in, because without the `desu' there is no
way to mark the politeness.  `Gozaimasen deshita' is in, because the `deshita'
is needed for the tense.  (I have heard `Gozaimasen desu,' but it should be
out.  How common are such?  Is it like `o-go-chiso^sama'?)

`Desho^' and `daro^' are similar cases.  If it were felt that `nai daro^' is
wrong, it would have been easy enough to preserve the shorter, more pedigreed,
but obsolescent, `nakaro^.'  Quite the contrary; `nai daro^' has given rise to
a back-formation in formal style: `nai de aro^.'  `De' is of course otherwise
quite impossible after a keiyo^shi.  That is, `nai de aro^' does not come from
*`nai de aru,' but from re-introducing the history of `daro^' after it has
taken a new role as sentence particle.

Bart Mathias
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: tozaki@math.keio.ac.jp (Hidekazu TOZAKI)
Subject: Re: kanji of the day #21
Organization: Faculty of Sci. and Tech., Keio Univ., Yokohama, Japan.
	<1992Jul24.171240.1931@news.Hawaii.Edu>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 10:27:01 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.171240.1931@news.Hawaii.Edu> mathias@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Gerald B. Mathias) writes:
 |In article <9207230921.AA24842@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu writes:
 |>        **
 |>        **      ******************  <- lid of a shellfish (?)
 |>  **************        **            The ancient form of this top part is
 |>        **        **************      like "knife":   ********
 |>        **        **          **                         *   *
 |>  **************  **          **                        *    *
 |>  **    **    **  **************                       *    **
 |  [kanji slightly edited for space]
 |
 |The "ANCIENT" form?  Ouch!  That's mean.
 |
 |How about "A slightly obsolescent form ..."?

  We still have to see this 'pre-war' form, some dare to use this
style, because new (post-war) one is not reasonable.

--
Hidekazu TOZAKI
Faculty of Science and Technology, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan.
E-mail: tozaki@nak.math.keio.ac.jp
From: MORIMOTS@UIAMVS.BITNET (Hideyuki Morimoto 319-335-5886)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Repeated Receipt of Nihongo Bulletin Board Postings
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:10:00 GMT
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet

Is it only I who suddenly started to receive every posting
on the Nihongo electronic bulletin board repeated twice,
instead of just once?  Although I have been a subscriber to
this listserv for a while, I received an automatice subscription
acknowledgement notice yesterday, which I suspect, is related
to this duplicate message receipt oddity.  Any information
on the ways in which this rather annoying situation could be
properly handled, without completly cancelling my subscription,
would be greatly appreciated.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hideyuki Morimoto

Cataloging           | Internet: internet.morimots@uiamvs.weeg.uiowa.edu
Main Library         | Bitnet:   morimots@uiamvs.bitnet
University of Iowa   |
Iowa City, IA  52242 | Voice:    (+1)-319-335-5886
(U. S. A.)           | FAX:      (+1)-319-335-5830
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Mark-Tarbell@suite.com
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: racism in Japan
Date: 31 Jul 92 17:01:23 GMT
Reply-To: Mark-Tarbell@suite.com

Well, in my experience, it seems that anyone in Japan who isn't
100% racially and ethnically Japanese gets the "gaijin" yoke
(which can have its advantages - I'm certainly not complaining).

But how do people of Japanese decent living in America like being
categorized under the "politically correct" classification of 
"hyphenated" (sub?) Americans, e.g., Japanese-American?

Does it matter, or is it unwanted baggage?  My American friends
of Japanese racial decent, whether or not they have/feel ethnic
identity to Japanese culture, seem to slightly resent it. I
believe it's because they feel they've been "pigeon-holed" into
some sort of racial/ethnic mold by which Americans at large
choose to view them, thus it becomes a burden.

..just a call for discussion. 
Thanks.


Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan