Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Distribution: usa,local
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 21:09:38 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Dec21.125609.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
>In article <1992Dec21.013057.19217@oracle.us.oracle.com>, mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
>> In article <1992Dec16.170709.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
>>>In article <1992Dec16.191045.25991@oracle.us.oracle.com>, mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
>>>> In article <1992Dec15.084754.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
>>>>>In article <1992Dec14.153345.20603@oracle.us.oracle.com>, mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
>>>>>> In article <1992Dec10.124204.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
>>>>>>>In article <1992Dec8.231456.7197@oracle.us.oracle.com>, mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
>>>>>>>> In article <1992Dec4.231441.10829@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> montas@stable.ecn.purdue.edu (Hubert J Montas) writes:
>>>>>>>>>In article <1992Dec4.165214.27181@fid.morgan.com> sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart) write 

>>>>>>>  How many foriegn blacks have come into the
>>>>>>>  U.S. and made Mega bucks?

>>>>>> Well, I don't have a count, but you have to remember - most people who
>>>>>> come from foreign countries and make big bucks seem to be
>>>>>> entertainers.  Most entertainers need to come from English speaking
>>>>>> countries to succeed here, and English speaking in this context mean
>>>>>> relatively accentless, so the Caribbean doesn't count.

>>>>>  Does that include spanish speaking and asians too?

>>>> What?  That they need to know English?  You bet.  How many Spanish
>>>> It includes Spanish speaking.  It doesn't include Orientals, but they
>>>> seem to be able to succeed anywhere.  Look at Malaysia, for an even
>>>> more extreme example than the US.  I can't explain that in a
>>>> politically correct way, but it's a fact.

>>>  That's odd.  When I lived in the bay area there were oriental street signs in
>>>  some areas.  Out here in the southwest there are english and spanish signs
>>>  posted everywhere.  Many legal document are written in both spanish and
>>>  english.  What a great nation this would be if we could have street signs and
>>>  legal documents to accomodate people from all over the world with different
>>>  dialects.

>> First off, you don't seem to be responding to my post.

>  Your post said "They need to know english?  You bet."
>  Well if they need to know english why do we have spanish and
>  chinese postings 
>  all over the place?

If you had bothered to read the context (which is still included up
above) you would see that what I was saying is that they need to know
English to get rich.  Not to find their way arround town.

>  Blacks in the U.S. lost thier native tongue, and thats be why we speaks and
>  be writin so bads.

Yeah, right.  Blacks and every other non-British immigrant.  Somehow
those other groups don't seem to have suffered in that way.

I'll add that as far as speaking and writing badl gores, you're pretty
much in a class by yourself.

>> Secondly, without a common language things woule be really tough on
>> everyone.  In short, rather than being a great nation we'd be a basket
>> case if everything had to be translated into every single one of the
>> world's more than 3,000 living languages.

>  I never thought of that!!!  Thanks for enlightening me.  

Glad to oblige.

>  So if we can't translate steet signs and other documents for every language 
>  in the world why do we do it for some? 

Because they have political clout.

>>>  Orientals seem able to succeed anywhere?  I guess they're
>>>  special.  You know 
>>>  the chosen race.  Like some type of god or something.  Besides
>>>  you know how 
>>>  those Orientals are.  
>>>  "Look at Malaysia"  That is a common problem in America.  The people are
>>>   always looking in everybody elses backyard except thier own.
>>>   We still have that "naked aggression" in the U.S. and gas prices have'nt
>>>   decreased either.   

>> Well, all I can say, Seth, is that if you aren't willing to look at
>> all the other places in the world to see what's happened there and
>> make predictions about what might happen here then you are a rather
>> idiotic caricature of the ugly American who thinks that nothing
>> that we can learn from ever happens outside the borders of the USA.

>  Likewise, America should learn from Pompeii and the Roman Empire
>  too!

You bet.  So what should we learn?

Well, Pompeii teaches us not to build cities right next to active
volcanoes.  Lesson learned.  Rome teaches us to keep our army strong.
Lesson kind of half learned.

>  What did we learn from the Gulf Crises?  We still have high gas prices
>  and blacks are being beaten by cops in L.A. and throughout the nation.

What do gas prices and blacks being beaten have to do with what we
learned from the Gulf Crisis?

>  By the way, my name isn't Seth.

Sorry.  I thought it was Seth Breidbart who wrote that last.

>>>>>> However, just off hand, I do know that there is a Somali super-model.
>>>>>> She's done some fundraising for aid for Somaila.

>>>>>  I have a black friend.  
>>>>>  I only have one friend. 

>>>> What's your point?  I don't keep a rolodex on my desk with a list of
>>>> successful people in the US crossindexed by country of origin.

>>>  Joan Rivers said, "After the first million, who's counting?"
>>>  Omar Hall say's "I am."
>>>  And it's approximatley 400 years.  Roughly the same amount of
>>>  time the jews 
>>>  spent in Egypt.  Do some computing.  The hell if i'm working
>>>  overtime with it 
>>>  not being documented in some biblical scriptures(i.e. bible).

>> I totally fail to see your point.  What on Earth do you mean?

>  It's good you don't understand.  I had some doubts about posting that one.
>  I admit I spoke too much prematurely.

Once again, you're talking gibberish.

>>>>>>>  In addition, why is it that so many people from
>>>>>>>  all nations except Africa are in the U.S. today?

>>>>>> You have obviously never taken a cab ride in New York or Boston.

>>>>>  No I haven't, but New York and Boston are not representative of
>>>>>  the nation 
>>>>>  as a whole either.

>>>> True, but you don't find very many Frenchmen in any American city.
>>>> Same goes for most European nationalities.

>>>  You do find thier first, second, etc. generation offspring though.

>> Bullshit.  You find very few first, second, etc. generation offspring
>> of Frenchmen in the US.  You certainly find a lot more first, second,
>> etc. generation offspring of Africans.  Maybe you should be arguing
>> with ohall instead of me - he's the one who wants to talk about recent
>> immigrants.  

>  I am Ohall you idiot. 

Perhaps you are, but if you are so ashamed of your posts that you
refuse to sign them you will have to put up with people calling you by
your username.  The common convention for usernames is not to
capitalize them.

>  I went to school with whites.  I met descendants of
>  all european immigrants, including FRENCH!

Quite possible.  So what?  Learn to read, god-damn it.  I never
claimed that there are no descendants of French immigrants in the US.
Just that there aren't very many.

>  I met no blacks and have yet to 
>  meet a black who is a descendant of an african, with the exception of slave 
>  descendants.

Well, first off, why shouldn't the descnedants of slaves count?
Secondly, you must have had a very sheltered upbringing.  There were a
number of blacks who were descendants of recent immigrants or even
immigrants themselves in my highschool.

>>>  How many
>>>  Blacks in America do you meet who can tell you the ancestory of thier
>>>  parents?

>> Damfino.  I don't typically run arround asking people that question.

>  I never asked any whites.  It is always a common topic of
>  discussion of thier 
>  proud ancestory.

I find that hard to believe.

>>>  Which reminds me of an event which occured in college.  I was sitting with
>>>  two anglo females as they discussed thier grandparents origins.  One said my 
>>>  grandfather is Danish and my grandmother is Irish.  The other said my
>>>  grandfather is Swedish and my grandmother is British.  Then they looked at
>>>  me.  

>>>  Although I didn't say it, I was thinking my grandfather is from the Ivory
>>>  Coast and my grandmother is from Zimbabwe.  But I guess I will never know.

>> Damned if I can understand you.  Were they or weren't they?  If you
>> don't know then where do you get Ivory Coast and Zimbabwe from?

>  If I stated "I guess I will never know", then maybe you can tell me if
>  I know wether or not they were from the Ivory Coast or Zimbabwe?
>  Where do I get the Ivory Coast and Zimbabwe from?  Out of a hat!

Pretty sad.  I don't know where my great great grandparents come from
either.  Somehow, I haven't felt the need to make up stories in my
head about where they may have come from.


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Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education