HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Barbara Trumpinski)
Subject: Re: abortion
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 01:04:20 GMT

In <1992Apr16.171001.24311@morrow.stanford.edu> HF.TXG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Tonya Gonzales) writes:


>I also think people are ignoring a very basic fact. Women have been
>performing abortions on themselves and others for hundreds and
>hundreds of years. Regardless of whether or not it was legal. And
>the last period of time when it was illegal, women were dying for
>it.

>I think 'Roe' put it best at the last rally I went to. She said "I
>am *not* pro abortion, I am pro choice."  (this was the same rally
>they were selling abortion devices for women, so that if abortion
>was made illegal women could once again take care of themselves and
>each other.)

kitten, who should know better than to get back into this, says
"yes...and i was JUST reminded...the argument is not just about being
pro or anti abortion...it is about POWER...and how some people want to
have POWER over other people...how, by denying me a choice, people are
willing to take MY power away and turn me into a chattle for the state.

i will not give up my freedom or my soul to those who want to enslave
it -- for any reason.  and that is especially true with regards to my
reproductive freedom."


--
***************************************************************************
conan the librarian a.k.a. kitten           /\ /\  barbara ann 
"my life's a soap opera, isn't yours?"      {=.=}
                                              ~   trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu 

"kittens today are not properly trained--the way that they were when
victoria reigned." asparagus (gus: the theatre cat)
From: daq@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 14:21:03 GMT
Subject: Re: Rhetoric: The End of Morality in Society (?)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: alt.callahans

In alt.callahans, rmarsh@waikato.ac.nz writes:

>   "Start by recognizing that everyone has equal rights. Evryone has an
> equal right to (to quote the US declaration of independence) 'life, liberty
> and the pursuit of happiness' and to the natural resources of the planet.

The us declaration gives noone an equal right to resources.  I know you
did not mean that, but that is what your sentence says.

> Actually giving everyone their 'share' is infeasible, but recognizing the
> right is not. We plan to levy people on the amount of natural resources
> they control over and above their rightful, equal share. This levy would
> then be redistributed as compensation to those with less than their share.

This is preposterous if for no other reason than the inevitable 
corruption in the body that regulates the redistribution of the
'tax' money.  

However, the idea of a consumption tax on resources is probably not
a bad one.  A show that PBS did on global warming not long ago
proposed a carbon emission tax similar to this.

>   "Everything else is run by market forces, and a darn sight more fairly
> than the current world market where most people are too poor to be able to
> make much of an impact. No other taxes are necessary, and people don't
> have to do unnecessary work for the rich in order to survive.

If you think that there would not still be rich people and that 
the poor would not work for them to survive, you are displaying
an amazing amount of naivete.  I do not care what system you 
propose, ambitious men and women will climb to the top of
it and collect wealth.  Other men and women will be content
to sit at the bottom and cry about their lot.


> >        The Nuremburg trials established the principle of an individual's
> >      responsibilty (not right!) to resist immoral orders and laws.  Note
> >      also that the specific laws which MLK campaigned against were not
> >      merely reprehensible, but in fact illegal.
> >        I don't think you've established either the right or the necessity
> >      for any *group* to impose its standards on any other group, by any
> >      method.
> > 
> 
>   "Ah, yes. That brings me to the point I was going to make. If everyone
> has their share of resources, or compensation for it, each culture can take
> its share and make things the way they prefer using their share. Nobody
> else has the right to interfere so long as they use their own resources, or
> pay the just, market adjusted rent for the excess."

Who establishes the 'fair, market adjusted rent'?  I think you have
no idea at all how fundamentally impossible it is to be 'fair'.
You just can't do it.  Fairness has no meaning in the world.
Communist states were based on the idea of 'fairness'.  Go read
_the gulag archipelago_ for some evidence of how 'fair' they
were in practice.

doug
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Parsley, Sage, Rosemary & Co.
From: razer@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu (The Artful Dodger)
Date: 15 APR 92 13:00:04    
Reply-To: razer@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Big Bright Green Pleasure Machines, Inc.
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-a4  

Arty pulls out his 12 string and some sheet music.  "someone,
Walker, I believe, asked for the lyrics to Scarburough Fair.
	"This is actually two songs, Scarburough Fair and
Canticle, which have similar tunes.  Simon and garfunkle put
them together and launched an enormously sucssesful pop alblum 
with them.
		"This works best as a duet - Kateri, would you
help me?"
	He tunes, and they begin to sing.

Are you going to Scarborough Fair?
Parsley, sage, rosemary & thyme,
Remember me to one who lives there,
She once was a true love of mine

Tell her to make me a cambric shirt
   (On the side of a hill in the deep forest green)
Parsely, sage, rosemary & thyme
   (Tracing a sparrow on snow-crested ground)
Without no seams nor needlework
   (Blankets and bedclothes a child of the mountains)
Then she'll be a true love of mine
   (Sleeps unaware of the clarion call)

Tell her to find me an acre of land
   (On the side of a hill, a sprinkling of leaves)
Parsely, sage, rosemary, & thyme
   (Washed is the ground with so many tears)
Between the salt water and the sea strand
   (A soldier cleans and polishes a gun)
then she'll be a true love of mine

Tell her to reap it in a sickle of leather
   (War bellows, blazing in scarlet battalions)
Parsely, sage, rosemary & thyme
   (Generals order their soldiers to kill)
And to gather it all in a bunch of heather
   (And to fight for a cause they've long ago forgotten)
Then she'll be a true love of mine

Are you going to Scarborough Fair?
Parsley, sage, rosemary & thyme,
Remember me to one who lives there,
She once was a true love of mine


	The last note fades away, and Arty is silent for a 
moment.  "Scarburough fair was originally a witch's Mneumonic
tool, an aid to remembering the steps and ingredeints of a 
love potion.  Canticle, is obviously a folk song about war."


The Artful Dodger P65331727@CCIT.Arizona.Edu|Razer@Hacks.Arizona.EDU
"Can you imagine us years from today, sharing a park bench quietly?
  How terribly strange to be seventy!"
		-Paul Simon & Art Garfunkle "Old Friends" _Bookends_
From: jhitch@crash.cts.com (Jeffrey Hitchin)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Week from hell...
Date: 7 Apr 92 02:06:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: crash.1992Apr07.020632.8687
Reply-To: jhitch@crash.cts.com (Jeffrey Hitchin)
Organization: Crash TimeSharing, El Cajon, CA


	"Don't you just hate some weeks.  Mine this week is a real winner."
Grant points at the table.  The fondue pots are all gone, to be 
replaced by ten science texts ranging from Cell Biology to
Organic Chemistry to small works on muscle contraction.  Papers
and test questions are scattered all over the place.

	"That's right, folks, I'm taking the GRE in Biology and
am scared out of my mind right now.  My mother insists that I
can cram a whole college education into my head for this
Saturday, but of course I can't. But she still thinks it's 
possible.  Yuck.

	"I'm also going to a biotechnical job fair on Friday to see
if I can find work that pays more than $4.25 an hour.  It would
be nice to have a car. 

	"Either way, I am nervous enough now to by bite my nails all the
way to the cuticle.  Of course I won't, but...

	"Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to fiddle with my
rubber stamps for ten minutes to relax myself, maybe get a Diet
Pepsi, Mike, and then go back to work.  I hate cramming."
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: aaron@space.ualberta.ca (Alfvaen)
Subject: Re: Parsley, Sage, Rosemary & Co.
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Distribution: world,local
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 16:01:29 GMT

> Arty pulls out his 12 string and some sheet music.  "someone,
> Walker, I believe, asked for the lyrics to Scarburough Fair.
> 	"This is actually two songs, Scarburough Fair and
> Canticle, which have similar tunes.  Simon and garfunkle put
> them together and launched an enormously sucssesful pop alblum 
> with them.
> 		"This works best as a duet - Kateri, would you
> help me?"
> 	He tunes, and they begin to sing.

[Lyrics to Scarborough Fair/Canticle]

> 
> 	The last note fades away, and Arty is silent for a 
> moment.  "Scarburough fair was originally a witch's Mneumonic
> tool, an aid to remembering the steps and ingredeints of a 
> love potion.  Canticle, is obviously a folk song about war."

Alfvaen looks thoughtful.  "Mnemonic for a love potion?  An interesting  
thought.

"One thing--I'd always had the impression that in the 'traditional'  
version of Scarborough Fair, all the verses are 'Tell her to ' such and  
such, 'and then she'll be a true love of mine.'  Until the last verse,  
which ends 'and then _you'll_ be a true love of mine.'  Am I totally off  
my chum?  Am I right, or have I just been hearing things wrong?   
P65331727, do you know anything about this, or just the Simon & Garfunkel  
version?"

> The Artful Dodger P65331727@CCIT.Arizona.Edu|Razer@Hacks.Arizona.EDU
> "Can you imagine us years from today, sharing a park bench quietly?
>   How terribly strange to be seventy!"
> 		-Paul Simon & Art Garfunkle "Old Friends" _Bookends_

--

---Alfvaen(a.k.a. Aaron V. Humphrey)
Canadian Network For Space Research, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
If you stand on your head, you will get footprints in your hair.
Current Album--Paul McCartney:Pipes of Peace
 "Will the human race be run in a day?"
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tuesday, 14 Apr 1992 23:31:10 EDT
From: Abner Mintz <AXM113@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Invisibility and Stupidity Continued

Actually, there is already a policy that ANYONE who needs a computer for work
can at any time kick anyone playing games or reading netnews off the system
and take the computer for themselves.  The system worked too.

The current policy prevents the playing of games on the macintoshen even if
none of them is in use.  Macintoshen certainly don't take up disk space on any
network!

It's really not a matter of space or of convenience - it's a matter of a desire
for control.  The reason stated for the banning of games is that 'these games
seem to be addictive, and the students should be spending their time working.'
Having a few extra free terminals is only secondary.

I admit that the reason given (lack of disk space) for chopping netnews hang
time from 7 days to 3 days is good ...  if that's their actual reason.  As
they didn't even inform us that they were reducing the hang time, I don't know
their reasoning for that.

And I don't blame the ops ... I blame the administration.
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Subject: Re: Epistemological Question
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 13:35:44 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.113814.7407@cs.tulane.edu>, pierce@navo.navy.mil (Jim M. Pierce) writes:
>    Maybe I misunderstand what you mean by 'a law of nature.' If we don't
>  know something is a law of nature, how can we talk about it as if it
>  were. { Hmm. That doesn't make any sense, even to me. } I'll try again.
>
>   It was my understanding of the meteor 'disbelief' that scientists
> didn't believe it could/would happen, because it was impossible.
> Because Nature didn't/couldn't do that sort of thing. Kind of like
> believing in a 'rain of frogs' or 'a rain of blood' or 'etc.' 
> by many witnesses ! 
> Sorry. I think I'll go home in about
> an hour and get some sleep. I need it. Must be too much partying !

I didn't say that the set of questions I proposed would give a definitive
answer to the question in point, nor did I say that having one or more of the
questions answered "No" would rule out the possibility that the story
constituted "history" rather than "fiction."  Also please note how I phrased
the first question: "Do the events in the account satisfy the laws of nature AS
WE KNOW THEM?" (emphasis added).  We might be wrong in some of them.  If we
were SURE of them, then a "Yes" answer to this question would be a sine qua non
to concluding that the story actually constitutes history.  As it is, a "No"
answer simply makes me less likely to reach that conclusion;  it doesn't rule
out the possibility entirely.

>   Uhm, StM, I understood all of your posts, I was just trying to
> come up with what I felt were contraindications in the 'scientific
> method' of earlier so-called scientists. But that reminds of something
> I saw in a James Burke program. Someone was quoted as saying how
> stupid early scientists must have been to not realize that the earth
> rotates, it was obvious. The other person said, "Well how would a sunrise
> look if the earth was the center of the solar system ?' Well, both
> physical relationships look the same. A sunrise with the Earth the
> center of the solar system and a sunrise of the Earth rotating on
> it axis and bringing the Sun into view look the same. Not that I can
> comprehend what this paragraph has to do with anything. I definately
> need some rest ! Later, I think... , but not right now ! Ack !

How do we know that the Earth ISN'T actually at the center of mass of the
Universe?
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: HF.TXG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Tonya Gonzales)
Subject: Re: most passionate of the Signs ???
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 19:53:33 GMT

TJ looks up from her polisci book The (ugh!) Irony of Democracy
<sigh>..."I have to say you are all wrong, the most passionate sign
is the Leo. Just ask anyone I've ever loved or fought..."
TJ puts her head back into the book muttering "..yes,
yes...elites.."

TJ
From: erikred@ocf.berkeley.edu (Erik Nielsen)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: A stressful winter
Date: 7 Apr 92 04:53:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.rr9stINN8cc
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: ocf.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Apr3.210837.13728@keps.kodak.com> pamela@keps.kodak.com (Pamela Blalock) writes:
}Cheers ... CRASH ... Boy that felt good ... Hey Mike, a round of
}stress-free for any who are interested ON ME.

The giant motions towards Mike.  "I'll have one of those, thanks...  assuming
you'll take one of these."  With that, he offers her a giant's hug.

}-- 
}Pamela Blalock                                     pamela@keps.kodak.com
}Kodak Electronic Printing Systems, Inc             3 down, 9 to go!
}164 Lexington Road, Billerica, MA 01821-3984       
 

Erik, the BFG
-- 
     "All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
			Roy, _Blade Runner_
Erik Nielsen					erikred@ocf.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Barbara Trumpinski)
Subject: Re: RH and steel bars
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:35:33 GMT

In <9204070542.AA19720@premise.prime.com.> mdm@PREMISE.PRIME.COM (Michael McAfee) writes:

>		"All this talk of Rocky Horror brings back memories
>	of when I ushered the Rocky Horror midnight shows at the Harvard
>	Square cinema in Cambridge.  Some favorite lines:

>		[when B&J are in the car, the wiper blades go back and 
>	forth from Brad to Janet, during which we yelled out, 
>		"A***ole, Slut!  A***ole, Slut!]

>		[Say something French, Frankie!]
>		"Enchante'"  [Au Bon Pain]

 
kitten has to get in on this...."enchante'...means nice tits"

>		"A laser capable of firing a beam of pure anti-matter!"
>		[Peanut butter!]

"then it's not a laser beam"


>	Ah, those were the days."

>		And at the edge of hearing comes a pun:
>			"Steel bars do not a prism make."
>	

kitten goes to what she was doing....leaving everyone with a final question.

"what color are rocky's underwear?"
--
***************************************************************************
conan the librarian a.k.a. kitten           /\ /\  barbara ann 
"my life's a soap opera, isn't yours?"      {=.=}
                                              ~   trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu 

"kittens today are not properly trained--the way that they were when
victoria reigned." asparagus (gus: the theatre cat)
From: rmarsh@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Soap boxes and picnics
Date: 11 Apr 92 19:29:20 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <1992Apr10.231526.7366@waikato.ac.nz>, hgm@waikato.ac.nz writes:
> An immense pile of soap boxes appears. Standing on them is a woman in her
> mid-forties who is reading from a sheet of concertina computer paper as long as
> the soap boxes are high. No-one can hear her as she is too far up. When she has
> finished she immediatley disappears again. The computer paper drifts to the
> ground. If anyone picks it up it instantly copies itself so that there are
> copies for anyone who wants to read. The paper relates to the ideas Stumpy has
> been promoting, it reads :-
> 
  Stumpy looks up at the woman and her pile of soapboxes and cringes. Both
his face and the technicolour shirt turn a particularly bright shade of
red. "Oh no, it's my mom. I think I'll crawl into a small hole now and 
hide." he says quietly. He looks about for a suitable hole to crawl into. 
"Then again perhaps not."
  Turning to Nicki, Stumpy composes himself once more, the initial shock
having dissipated: "Since you've been providing the music for everyone
else, you haven't been offered the opportunity to dance yourself. So now,
if Galadin with his keyboard and the others can hold the fort, so to speak,
perhaps you'd do me the honour of taking the next dance with me?"

-- 
Robert 'Stumpy' Marsh | Brought to you from the bottom of the world
rmarsh@waikato.ac.nz  | both topographically and socio-politically.
+64 7 855 4406        | Whatever happened to Godzone?
    SnailMail: 95 Fairfield Rd, Hamilton, Aotearoa (New Zealand)
    I don't **believe** my mom turned up here without warning me!
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: renglish@cello.hpl.hp.com (Bob English)
Subject: Re: most passionate of the Signs ???
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 18:03:56 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs

daq@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom) writes:
> I am a cancer, and I am NOT fucking passionate.  OK!?

Aha!  You're passionately anti-passionate!  Your tone reveals the true
self beyond the words!  Besides what good is fucking if it's not
passionate?

--bob--
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Subject: Re: Rhetoric: The End of Morality in Society (?)
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 06:18:52 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.235933.7319@waikato.ac.nz>, rmarsh@waikato.ac.nz writes:
>> Who establishes the 'fair, market adjusted rent'?  I think you have
>> no idea at all how fundamentally impossible it is to be 'fair'.
>> You just can't do it.  Fairness has no meaning in the world.
>
>  Stumpy resists the temptation to feign incomprehension at the uses of the
>concept 'fairness' and procedes to address the point.
>  "The fair market rent is determined by the average value placed on the
>resource by everyone. That's what the lists do, determine the fair market
>rent. Those who value a resource more highly than average will control
>their share themselves. Those who value it less will take the
>compensation."

Actually, for a Pareto-Optimal outcome (i.e., one in which you can't make
anybody better off without making someone else worse off), you don't want to
use the average valuation, you want to use the marginal valuation;  i.e., the
value placed on it by the person who wants it most.
From: daq@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 15:31:50 GMT
Subject: Re: Belated greetings, and other topics (was Re: Rhetoric: The...)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: alt.callahans

> 	"I'm married -- what if I have less than my 'fair share' and my
> spouse has more?  What if we have kids?

I was going to point this out as one of the big weaknesses.
Irresponsible parents could breed themselves to wealth and
abuse the children.

Also, since childrend dilute the resource base, I would insist,
as an individual, in having a say about your reproductive rights.
I would insist on zero, or even negative, population growth.

doug
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Barbara Trumpinski)
Subject: Re: nothing much
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 13:53:26 GMT

In <1992Apr9.221708.9445@morrow.stanford.edu> GE.LJB@forsythe.stanford.edu (Louis J Bookbinder) writes:


>"Someone spoke of taking the abortion issue out of here until people
>could start seriously talking about compromise. May I point out that Roe
>v Wade WAS a compromise. The court could have ruled that abortion was
>legal. Period. Instead it put a number of restrictions on it. But some
>people do not LIKE compromises." He looks down at the soapbox. Not too
>bad. He jumps off KLANK!

"and they are the ones who are electing to send women to their
deaths,"  kitten bites her tongue...."sorry"

>"Goodbye, Isaac, you were, and always will be, one of my heroes. A tin
>man is, after all, not too different from a robot.

"and his robots had hearts, too."

>"I agree about the English teachers and proffs. Some of them can teach
>the life out of literature. Shame! I find that I have sparked my little
>girl's interest in literature greatly just reading to her, with no
>academic comment at all. I plan to try to beat the schools to the punch
>each year until she graduates - read to her for fun what the schools try
>to read for "culture". Then she will KNOW the book while others try to
>chew on the dry husks left by "experts".

"hooray for nick....there are newsgroups devoted to kids lyra's
age....can we do MORE with this....?  i WILL send her more mail.

>"GO GETTEM TEAM!" <QUWAAAAAK> Stan flies down to Nick's had wondering
>what all the excitement is about.

"hi stan..." 

--
***************************************************************************
conan the librarian a.k.a. kitten           /\ /\  barbara ann 
"my life's a soap opera, isn't yours?"      {=.=}
                                              ~   trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu 

"kittens today are not properly trained--the way that they were when
victoria reigned." asparagus (gus: the theatre cat)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: allbery@NCoast.ORG (Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH)
Subject: Re: Invisibility and Stupidity
Reply-To: allbery@ncoast.org (Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH)
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 23:34:16 GMT
Followup-To: alt.callahans

As quoted from <92095.101137JDK116@psuvm.psu.edu> by <JDK116@psuvm.psu.edu>:
+---------------
| fact that a univeristy vergin is someone who has not been screwed by the
| university! I see this computer thing as just another way for the school
| to screw us student and further this tradition/legend of the Obolisk!!
+---------------

Well, I shan't dispute it; I've never been to Penn State --- although I did
spend a year at *the* sCWRU.  :-)  (It was too expensive; I went elsewhere
after that.)

++Brandon
-- 
Brandon S. Allbery, KF8NH [44.70.4.88]        allbery@NCoast.ORG
Senior Programmer, Telotech, Inc. (if I may call myself that...)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans