HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.railroad

In rec.railroad, rrw@sunset.cse.nau.edu (Bob Wier) writes:


>    I guess it does take a certain kind of person to enjoy the GCR, though.
>    I've heard a number of people say that it takes too long as far as they
>    are concerned.  Ah, modern times....   :-)

Ah, modern times indeed!  Last summer while riding the Cumbres and
Toltec out of Chama on the way up Cumbres pass we had a bit of trouble
pulling the grade and a short delay resulted.  People in our car began
to complain about the delay and the trip taking way too long and being
way too slow.  This on a train going from nowhere to nowhere on a
gorgeous summer day in the Rockies.  Talk about missing the point...

'Course on the same trip, as we neared Osier (site of a former section
house with stockpens and water tank and no signs of civilization for
miles) while descending along the side of a spectacular mountain valley,
a blind woman in our car traveling with family members asked her family
to describe the scene to her.  Their description consisted of something
like, "well, there's a valley, and there's a stream at the bottom, and
there's trees...".  She tried to pump them for details, but without
success.  I really wanted to sit down with her and try to describe to
her the beauty that surrounded us and the spectacular sight the ex-Rio
Grande K-36 Mikado presented as it steamed it's way through, but I
didn't quite have the nerve to butt in.  I've regretted that since then.

Some folks really don't see what's there to be seen!



Scott Turner  scott@hpisla.LVLD.HP.COM
HP VXI Systems Division
From: delbert.big@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Delbert Big) 
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Summer Train Runs
Date: 27 Dec 92 09:26:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: HAL 9000, W-NET HQ, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Reply-To: delbert.big@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Delbert Big) 

In a recent post from 00gwmichelin@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu, he asked

0>Does anyone have a list, or know where to get the list of steam trains runnin
0>this coming summer?

Check the railfan magazines like "Trains".  Most have a listing of
excusions near their classified section.
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From: 00gwmichelin@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Summer Train Runs
Date: 23 Dec 92 19:09:10 GMT
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

Does anyone have a list, or know where to get the list of steam trains running
this coming summer?
From: delbert.big@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Delbert Big) 
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Oil Bearings (was Re:
Date: 27 Dec 92 09:04:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: HAL 9000, W-NET HQ, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Reply-To: delbert.big@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Delbert Big) 


In a recent post, rad@railnet.nshore.ORG (Rick DeMattia) typed;

RD>To the best of my knowledge non-roller bearing axles are banned
RD>from interchange service by all United States railroads.  Ten
RD>years ago when I was working more closely with rolling stock the
RD>ban had been in effect for some time.

Well when I was involved with the KCS in 1986, I remember seeing 
several older tank cars with friction bearings.  We had a hot
box show up on the old Fort Crowder coach track at Neosho, MO.
The car men asked me if I wanted to come and see how they replaced
wheels and bearings the *old way*.
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Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: rogerm@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE (Roger Mitchell)
Subject: Re: Oiled Bearings
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 14:47:08 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

  Railroad car friction bearings were never greased. They used a type of oil
called Journaltex of which today's commonly available substitute is SAE 30
non detergent motor oil, which is what we use on the Fort Collins Municipal
Railway's Car #21. The bearings are made of brass of which has had babbitt 
metal cast over it and machined to fit the axle. The actual bearing surface
riding on the steel axle is babbitt metal. This type of bearing only covers the
top half of the axle journal. The bottom half contains wool waste soaked in
oil to wick the oil up on to the axle which keeps the bearing surface clean
and lubricated.
	In the days before roller bearings these types of bearings were used
many times at speeds exceeding 100 MPH on many railroads across the country.  
	Steam locomotives used a very heavy stick grease to lubricate the
connecting rod bearings but, the axles were lubricate with oil.

				Roger Mitchell
				Master Mechanic: Ft. Collins Municipal Railway
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Oil Bearings (was Re: Grand Canyon Railway)
From: rad@railnet.nshore.ORG (Rick DeMattia)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 21:10:34 EST
Organization: Railnet BBS +1 216 786 0476

ajw@squid.mel.dit.CSIRO.AU (Andrew Waugh) writes:

> I would not be surprised if railroads limit (or even prohibit) the
> use of equipment equipped with oil bearings...

To the best of my knowledge non-roller bearing axles are banned
from interchange service by all United States railroads.  Ten
years ago when I was working more closely with rolling stock the
ban had been in effect for some time.


--
UUCP: {uunet|backbone}!railnet!rad   rad@railnet.nshore.org
CompuServe: 72517.666@compuserve.COM
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: guy@boi.hp.com ()
Subject: Re: tunnel motors
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 18:18:04 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.2 PL7]


A couple of small points about tunnel motors.  

EMD tunnel  motors pull  radiator air near the walkway but engine air is
pulled from the normal  place.  The "central  air system"  (EMD  jargon)
provides engine air and cooling air for generators, traction motors, and
electrical cabinet.  The intake is through the high screens right behind
the cab.  Those  screens are the intake to the  inertial air  separator.
This is a prefilter  which acts like a cream  separator.  Dirt particles
are separated by inertial force and expelled  through the little opening
in the roof right behind the cab by a small fan called a "bleed blower".
At any rate the intake temperature here can be as high as 280 degF which
makes the diesel very sluggish.

It makes a great deal of difference where the crew is.  Air conditioners
can't keep up with the heat load in a tunnel.  They are  usually  on the
roof and see those 280 deg  temps.  At that  temp  they  become  heaters
instead.  The best you can do in a tunnel  is to close up tight and ride
it out.  On the first  unit  thats not bad.  On the  third  unit, I once
recorded  a  temperature  of 140 F in the cab by the end of the  tunnel.
Breathing  was difficult and my skin was red (like a mild  sunburn) till
the next day.  On the fourth unit, well you don't want to be there.



--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--
  |  |  |  |  |  |  |     I WORK TO LIVE    |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--
Guy Burnham, Boise Surface Mount Center, Hewlett Packard Co. Inc.
guy@hpbs5194.boi.hp.com     208(323-3355)
Disclaimer: Don't you be the only one to take me seriously!  
--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--
  |  |  I LIVE FOR TRAINS, and OLD TRUCKS, and OLD TRACTORS and ..  |  |
--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: FAFES@livid.uib.no
Subject: Good relations?
Organization: University of Bergen
Date: 29 Dec 1992 12:02:17 EMT

Our steam loco no 255, ten-wheeler build in 1913, is just
recently restored in Bergen, Norway, along with two wooden
coaches from 1921 and 1924. Our goal is to establish a steam
railway on a closed line which at the present time has some
damages which has to be repaired.

The financing are dependable on NSB's (Norwegian State
Railway's) permission to repair the permanent way, and this
permission is in some extent dependable on financing. (Catch
22?)

We have some difficulties in making the NSB's administration
enough interested in our project. We think that there will be
a benefit for NSB, but this is not easy to prove in advance.

Has any railway administrations around the world said anything
officially or unofficially about the good relations or the
benefit from veteran steam railways? Maybe a quotation list
would be one of several ways to go.

Any help will be highly appreciated.

Norwegian Railway Club (NJK)
Ivar Gubberud
Manager

E.mail: gubberud\nsd.uib.no
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ajw@squid.mel.dit.CSIRO.AU (Andrew Waugh)
Subject: Re: Novice Request for Info
Organization: CSIRO, Division of Information Technology, Melbourne
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 22:41:30 GMT

In article <1ht3fhINNlef@morrow.stanford.edu> AR.CHM@forsythe.stanford.edu (Chris Martin) writes:
>     Being a part-time history buff and dabbler in HO, I was hoping
>someone out there might have a source book for trains running in
>Europe, 1930-1950.  The introduction/use of electric and diesel
>locomotives is of particular interest, as is the Reichsbahn.  Mail
>me if anything springs to mind (or point me to a FAQ sheet /
>newsletter).  Thanks for reading!

You want to look at the industry magazines of that era. There are 
probably German magazines (if you can read German), but the British
magazine 'Railway Gazette' is quite good on general European
developments. It is very good on the development of electric and
diesel locomotives as during this period the Gazette published
(monthly?) supplements on Electric Railways and Diesel Traction.

Copies of the 'Railway Gazette' should be obtainable in large
public or university libraries.

andrew waugh
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Subject: Re: CSRM Inside Track news
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:23:06 GMT

PLACERVILLE LOCOMOTIVES

The shay at the Eldorado County fairgrounds (actually
the local historical society museum, which is at the
fairgrounds) is former Diamond & Caldor #4, a 3-foot
gauge engine, and the only surviving D&C engine.  As
I remember it, the shay stood for years at the 
fairgrounds, slowly rusting away.  It was later moved
to the Camino, Placerville & Lake Tahoe for restoration.
When that line folded, it came back to the historical
society for display. (My facts may be a bit fuzzy but
that's as I remember it after many years.)  RAILROAD
MODEL CRAFTSMAN ran plans for this engine about 25 
years ago.

~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: dboone@IASTATE.EDU (David L. Boone)
Subject: Re: CGW (was the Tunnel thread)
Reply-To: dboone@IASTATE.EDU (David L. Boone)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 00:24:27 GMT

In article <BzqDMs.HKK@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, roma@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Roma)
writes:

> The CGW was merged into the C&NW on July 1, 1968.  You may be thinking of
> the Minneapolis & St. Louis, which became part of the C&NW in 1960.
> -- 
> Jon Roma
> Computing and Communications Services Office,
> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
> Internet:  roma@uiuc.edu      	UUCP:      uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!roma

Thank you for making the correction; and, yes, I was thinking of the M&StL.  
This occurred to me later that day -- after I'd left work, naturally.  Guess 
my mind was numbed by my frantic last-minute Christmas shopping.  :)

It was also pointed out to me that absorption of the M&StL and the CGW into 
the C&NW would be more appropriately characterized as purchases than mergers.  
The work forces were merged, but the properties were purchased.  Sound right?
--
David L. Boone
Engineer, Iowa State University Computation Center
Internet: dboone@iastate.edu    Bitnet:  gn.dlb@isumvs
Voice:    (515) 294-1977        US mail: 74 Durham Hall, Ames, IA 50011
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: guy@boi.hp.com ()
Subject: Re: Alcos, GG1's, etc.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:47:53 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.2 PL7]

In <Bq47VB4w165w@1776.COM>, Robert Coe (bob@1776.COM) wrote:
>Somehow that doesn't make sense.  I'd believe "minimum" RPM, but if HEP is 
>being generated by the prime mover, how could the generator possibly require 
>"constant" engine RPM?  When the train is underway, the prime mover's RPM 
>must depend on train speed and weight and on the terrain being traversed 
>(level, climbing, etc.).  Am I missing something obvious?  Also, I thought 
>that the throttle settings controlled the current drawn by the traction 
>motors and only indirectly the speed of the prime mover.  Or does the whole 
>discussion above apply only to the function of the throttle when the traction 
>motors are disconnected?
>
>   ___            _                                           -  Bob
>   /__) _   /    / ) _   _
>(_/__) (_)_(_)  (___(_)_(/_______________________________________ bob@1776.COM
>Robert K. Coe ** 14 Churchill St, Sudbury, Massachusetts 01776 ** 508-443-3265

The problem isn't one of power output.  Its a problem of frequency.  On
an F40PH there is an auxiliary gearbox that spins an alternator to
provide the "hotel power".  This gearbox is set up so that when the
engine is at full speed (ie. the usual notch 8 speed), the alternator is
putting out 60 Hz power for the cars.  Therefore, the engine MUST run
this speed all the time.  At lower throttle notches the field is reduced
as noted.  

There is (or at least was) a way to reconnect the traction alternator to
provide hotel power during layover.  You cannot be powering the traction
motors in this mode.  This reduces the RPM needed to generate the 60 Hz
down to around 870 rpm I think.  The main alternator is a 14 pole 3
phase AC machine as I recall.  This is still a pretty high "idle" but is
better than 1200 rpm or whatever.  It takes some doing to make the
switchover and you have to pull the plug on the cars when you do it so
they don't do it unless they will sit for quite a while.  Its hard on
the passengers when the lights go out.

--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--
  |  |  |  |  |  |  |     I WORK TO LIVE    |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--
Guy Burnham, Boise Surface Mount Center, Hewlett Packard Co. Inc.
guy@hpbs5194.boi.hp.com     208(323-3355)
Disclaimer: Don't you be the only one to take me seriously!  
--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--
  |  |  I LIVE FOR TRAINS, and OLD TRUCKS, and OLD TRACTORS and ..  |  |
--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: dboone@IASTATE.EDU (David L. Boone)
Subject: M&StL steam locomotive
Reply-To: dboone@IASTATE.EDU (David L. Boone)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 23:59:01 GMT

Wes Barris <wes@uf.msc.edu> lists Minneapolis & St. Louis steam locomotive 
number 471 as residing in Annandale, MN.  Anyone know who owns this 2-8-0 
and exactly where it is in Annandale?  Thanks for the information.
--
David L. Boone
Engineer, Iowa State University Computation Center
Internet: dboone@iastate.edu    Bitnet:  gn.dlb@isumvs
Voice:    (515) 294-1977        US mail: 74 Durham Hall, Ames, IA 50011
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com.mcm.hp.com (John Mosbarger)
Subject: Re: Unusual tunnels?
Organization: HP Cardiology Business Unit - McMinnville, OR
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:10:16 GMT

James B. VanBokkelen (jbvb@vax.ftp.com) wrote:
: In article <2639@eagle.ukc.ac.uk> jmb@ukc.ac.uk (J.M.Bremner) writes:
: 
:     ...[describes spirals in the UK, India, Switzerland and Germany]...
: 
: In the USA, I know of three spirals in service: Tehachapi Loop, east of
: Bakersfield CA on track shared by the SP & ATSF, Hiwassee Loop on CSX
: (former L&N) between Copper Hill and Etowah TN, and the Georgetown Loop
: tourist operation on the former Colorado Central narrow gauge.

     Don't forget Williams Loop, on UP's (ex-WP's) Feather River Route.

John
--
*****************************************************************************
| John Mosbarger          |    You know why many people commit suicide      |
|                         |    during the holidays?  It's because they're   |
| HP McMinnville, OR      |    forced to spend time with their relatives.   |
|                         | 	                  --John Belushi            |
| johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com |                     	                    |
|***************************************************************************|
|                     Opinions are mine and mine alone.                     |
*****************************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ajw@squid.mel.dit.CSIRO.AU (Andrew Waugh)
Subject: Re: Oil Bearings (was Re: Grand Canyon Railway)
Organization: CSIRO, Division of Information Technology, Melbourne
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 22:46:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.152513.25799@ee.ryerson.ca> iain@ee.ryerson.ca (Iain Campbell) writes:
>As another post has noted, brass was the preferred bearing material in 
>railroad usage.  Also, it was my understanding, and I am interested to
>know what other netters know about this, that grease, not liquid oil,
>was the preferred lunricant for car journal bearings.

Brass was certainly the preferred traditional journal metal, however,
by 1953 (at least) the AAR standard journal was made of brass with
a 1/4" lining of white metal.

The preferred lubricant depended on time and place. Just about every
different type of oil and grease has been used. Grease was not popular
in the very severe winters experienced in North America as it froze
solid. The bearing quickly melted the grease, of course, once the
train had started moving, but the friction of the train until this
occurred was very great. Other reasons existed as well. Apparently,
for example, in the Deep South of the USA the hogs learnt that a
norishing feed could be had by raising the lids of the boxes and
drinking the grease!

The problem with oil was that it was more expensive than grease, but
this was solved with the production of cheap mineral oil by the turn
of the century. In countries where oil had to be imported (e.g. the UK)
grease lasted much longer as a lubricant.

andrew waugh
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: bobmacd@well.sf.ca.us (Robert MacDowell)
Subject: Re: Tunnel Motors
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 06:58:06 GMT


>In message <1992Dec17.083428.19531@pbs.org> btiffany@pbs.org (Bruce Tiffany)
writes:
>In article <6092@sumax.seattleu.edu>, daveike@sumax.seattleu.edu (Eickerman)
writes:
>> What do y'all think?
>>
>> John Eickerman                  **Attention Colorado**
>> daveike@seattleu.edu        Everyone deserves equal rights
>
>Everyone *has* equal rights.
>
>But no one group deserves *special* rights and privileges.
>
>-- Bruce Tiffany

I'm sure you're sincere in your opinion, Bruce.

But with all due respect, why did you dedicate an entire message to this
tired, dogmatic flame of an old debate that everyone's heard too much of?

I mean, this *is* rec.railroad.  If we wanted to argue about Colorado 2, we'd
be reading and posting to alt.politics.homosexuality.  But the point is we
*don't*. We want to talk about trains.

Remember that many of us have strong opinions on lots of things, including
Colorado 2.  Many, like you, would feel obligated to speak our opinions on
those issues if they came across our terminals.

Which is exactly *why* we read rec.railroad - we're trying to get *away* from
the flame wars.  If we wanted flame wars, we'd read alt.*.

Please be courteous by not bringing up the flame wars to us.

-Bob




-- Bob MacDowell | 75730.3410@compuserve.com | bobmacd@well.sf.ca.us | RBWR79B
Seeking computer training/helpdesk job in SF | Debbie Gibson = Body Mind Soul

   "You know, I really never doubted myself for a minute, and
   I think that's a key to success in general." -Deborah Gibson
From: b_nbca@icarus.lbl.gov (Bruce Nordman)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: battle of the rails
Date: 24 Dec 1992 00:44:45 GMT
Organization: lbl
Distribution: world
Reply-To: b_nbca@icarus.lbl.gov (Bruce Nordman)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.154

In article <92352.211645CSS3@psuvm.psu.edu>, <CSS3@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
|>    There is a potentially interesting battle shaping up in Indiana for what
|> will happen to some track CSX wants to abandon. CSX has indicated it will
|> soon file -- it if has not already -- to abandon about 24 miles of track
|> between Bloomington and Bedford (former Monon).
|> 
|>     A group of railroad enthusists has organized the Lawrence County
|> Railraod Historical Society. Their goal is to buy the track and operate a
|> tourist railroad operation. Meanwhile in Bloomington the Monroe County parks
|> officials have held a meeting to discuss buying the property from CSX,
|> removing
|> the rails and turning it into a rails to trails path.  <<text deleted>>
|> 
|>    Of course, both groups need to raise funds and it is clear that
|> both can't get what they want.
|> 
|>     The line in question is quite scenic, cutting through a number of hills
|>  and forests.  << rest of text deleted >>
|> 
|>  craig sanders
|>  Penn State University (and ex-Hoosier)

Why can't "both can't get what they want"?

I for one wouldn't mind a historic train passing occasionally while
walking along an old right of way.  This would also allow people to
walk one way and take the train the other.  If there was a way to
get the two groups together, it would seem to make it even easier
to get the needed $$ together.  Or am I being too optimistic?

I'd certainly much rather bicycle next to a rail ROW rather than
on a road with cars on it.

Bruce Nordman
B_Nordman@lbl.gov
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jim@specialix.com (Jim Maurer)
Subject: Re: Report on exhibition of prototype NYC Subway trains
Organization: Specialix Inc.
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 21:22:33 GMT

jmd@bear.com (Josh Diamond) writes:
>About the R-110a:

>  Status:			Now in use in Kansas City?

I don't think they have a rail transit system in Kansas City.

>About the R-110b:

>  Coupling:			BABCO

I think this should be WABCO.
From: john@newave.newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: M&StL steam locomotive
Date: 3 Jan 93 18:18:53 GMT
Organization: Newave Communications, Ltd, Lake Wobegon, MN

In <1993Jan2.175901@IASTATE.EDU> dboone@IASTATE.EDU (David L. Boone) writes:
>Wes Barris <wes@uf.msc.edu> lists Minneapolis & St. Louis steam locomotive 
>number 471 as residing in Annandale, MN.  Anyone know who owns this 2-8-0 
>and exactly where it is in Annandale?

Annandale is about 50 miles west of Minneapolis on state Hgy 55, just a few
miles south of St. Cloud.

-john-

-- 
==============================================================================
John A. Weeks III		(612) 942-6969		    john@newave.mn.org
Newave Communications, Ltd.			    ..!uunet!tcnet!newave!john
Newsgroups: rec.railroad