HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bhjelle@carina.unm.edu ()
Subject: Re: AMA Blasts Animal Rights Group on Milk Panic
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 92 14:18:08 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <f9lz02fn24aM01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> tsr00@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Ted Robinson) writes:
>In article <jpdp-7c@lynx.unm.edu>, bhjelle@carina.unm.edu writes:
>
>Ted Robinson) writes:
>>>
>>>Science question: how did humans evolve to *require* cow's milk?
>
>> Yet another example of the "establish a straw man" school of debate.
> 
>Can you elaborate?
>
Sigh. If I need to explain it, you're probably not going to understand.

Try this. No-one claims that humans *need* cow's milk to survive.
No-one, not even dairy farmers.

Since no-one is arguing the other side, ergo, your argument is
a straw man.

Brian
From: avery@netcom.com (Avery Ray Colter)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: The More Things Change...
Date: 13 Oct 92 18:38:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Oct13.183850.21303
Distribution: na
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

jil@donuts0.uucp (Jamie Lubin) writes:

>In spite of all the evidence of its harmful nature, there are still many people
>who smoke or eat or drink excessively.  Such people don't respond to threats or
>arguments or even so-called reasoning.  Don't be discouraged if some ignore
>your information or argue with it or ridicule it--they are operating from the
>level of their state of knowledge, which for them is correct or proper.  When
>they are ready to move into a new area they will ask for assistance and you can
>present your views at that time.  Remember the old saying: "A woman convinced
>against her will, is of the same opinion still."  It applies to men as well.

Thanks for this article - this is one I think I'll print and hang on my wall.
It will be a great source of calming when I'm building my practice and
continuing my studies. It's so often that health and politics start mixing,
and the results are almost always pretty nasty and combative. I can only
follow the perception of health I harbor, and I can only successfully work
with someone who shares compatible ideas. Those who have different ideas
will find workers more suited for them and their goals.

-- 
Avery Ray Colter ("Elfcat") - 	avery@netcom.netcom.com (IP 192.100.81.100)
(510) 656-1902 
"Heaviness is the root of lightness; calmness is the controller of haste"
From: Tom Gray <tgray@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Date: 06 Oct 92 19:33 PDT
Subject: Re: Stress & Vitamins (was Re: Inco
Nf-ID: #R:BvI63n.L3A@csc.liv.ac.uk:-1865173163:cdp:1705000001:000:289
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!tgray    Oct  6 19:33:00 1992


<responding to Rob Beynon>

Rob, there are many references cited in Adelle Davis's books
for the statement that the body's requirements for B vitamins
and others are substantially increased by stress.  Want me to
drag out a few, or are you seriously contending that this is
malarkey?

Tom

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen)
Subject: beans, bean, good for ??
Organization: NRL
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 23:46:03 GMT

A cookbook I recently purchased stated that you shouldn't cook beans
in a slow cooker, especially red kidney beans, because they contain
hemagglutinins which are only destroyed by boiling.

First, what are hemagglutinins and why are they considered 
dangerous?  Second, does this make any sense and should I stop 
cooking my beans in the slow cooker (which I've done for years 
now, maybe THAT explains why ... only kidding). I'm NOT trying
to start a panic --- this group gets enough of that --- but 
enquiring minds like to know.  Thanks!


Judy Karpen
karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil
Xref: sparky sci.med.nutrition:834 talk.politics.animals:8761
From: rwaigh@zooid.guild.org (Rosemary Waigh)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,talk.politics.animals
Subject: Re: AMA Blasts Animal Rights Group on Milk Panic
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:40:14 GMT
Reply-To: rwaigh@zooid.UUCP (Rosemary Waigh)
Organization: The Zoo of Ids

In article <1lgpjyb@lynx.unm.edu> bhjelle@carina.unm.edu () writes:
>Sigh. If I need to explain it, you're probably not going to understand.
>
>Try this. No-one claims that humans *need* cow's milk to survive.
>No-one, not even dairy farmers.
>
>Since no-one is arguing the other side, ergo, your argument is
>a straw man.
>
>Brian
>
That's funny, Canada's Food Guide says everyone needs to drink cow milk
every day (amounts depending on age and pregnancy).  I had thought the
situation was similar in the U.S.

I used to force myself to drink milk every day, even though to me it tastes
incredibly vile (I *never* aquired a taste for it), because I had read
various claims stating that without cow's milk I would get osteoporosis.

Rosemary Waigh
rwaigh@zooid.guild.org
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: young@serum.kodak.com
Subject: Re: Freedom of "unhealthy choices"? [was Re: Cooking/Heating Protein...]
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 21:07:18 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.171514.8634@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:

[...]

>The latest example is the argument that one doesn't have the right to
>be a vegetarian because it will have adverse health consequences (not
>proven) which others will have to pay for via the medical insurance
>system's overall premium level.

	Might we then assume that the old chestnut that omnivores are costing
	money through poor health will not be dragged out of hiding by some
	overly-enthusiastic vegetarian to condemn those whose dietary
	choices differ?  Good, because it's a poor argument regardless of
	WHICH side is the one from which it comes.


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: jil@donuts0.uucp (Jamie Lubin)
Subject: Re: Second opinion
Reply-To: jil@donuts0.uucp (Jamie Lubin)
Organization: Bellcore, Piscataway, NJ
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 12:58:08 GMT

Doctor: I'm afraid there's no cure for your illness.
Patient: I'd like a second opinion.
Doctor: Very well, make an appointment to see me again next week.

Just a JOKE folks...something to get the juices flowing on a Monday a.m.!
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: skeeter@skatter.usask.ca
Subject: Re: MULTI-VITAMINS
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 16:50:32 GMT

From article <10OCT92.05245458.0109@VM1.MCGILL.CA>, by CCMG@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CCMG):
> 
>   Hi there,
> 
>      Im presently taking MULT-VITAMIN/MINERAL supplement,
>      the brand is QUEST.It is a ONE A DAY vitamin.I noticed
>      that my urine is a much darker yellow while I take these
>      vitamins.Is this normal? harmful?.Also is it dangerous
>      to take MULT-VITAMINS over a long period?
> 
>                                    Giovanni

I am not a doctor but I have done a fair bit of reading on the subject
(government and other scientific publications; not the one's written by 
quasi-religious guys with Ph.D.'s in Literature), and for most vitamins
and minerals you are safe if you don't exceed double the RDI (Recommended
Daily Intake).  Fat-soluable vitamins and some minerals are more dangerous
to exceed than water-soluable vitamins like Vitamin C.

I can post the RDI for North Americans if anyone is interested.

Now to answer your questions:
1. I'm not familiar with "Quest" so I don't know what's in it.
2. A change in urine color (and stool color) is normal when you alter
	your diet, either by eating different foods or by taking vitamins
	and/or mineral supplements.  If there is a direct correlation
	between color change and taking the pills, then there is 
	PROBABLY little to worry about.
3. I have been taking vitamin supplements of some form most of my life
	and have not suffered.  Toxic effects are not usually seen until
	one exceeds the RDI by at least 300%.  (This is not true for all
	vitamins and minerals.)

DISCLAIMER:  I am not a doctor, I am a Systems Analyst.  Free advice is
	worth every penny!  :)

--
skeeter@skatter.usask.ca			no nifty .sig

The weight of one's wallet is inversly proportional to the size of
one's heart.   -- me
From: CCMG@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CCMG)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: MULTI-VITAMINS
Date: 10 Oct 92 09:51:24 GMT
Organization: McGill University


  Hi there,

     Im presently taking MULT-VITAMIN/MINERAL supplement,
     the brand is QUEST.It is a ONE A DAY vitamin.I noticed
     that my urine is a much darker yellow while I take these
     vitamins.Is this normal? harmful?.Also is it dangerous
     to take MULT-VITAMINS over a long period?

                                   Giovanni
From: feustel@netcom.com (David Feustel)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Dr Dean Edell A Shill for the FDA???
Date: 8 Oct 92 23:44:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Oct8.234404.10680
Organization: DAFCO: OS/2 Software Support & Consulting


Having watched Dr. Dean Edell in action on a number of occasions,
I conclude that he is a shill for the FDA in its campaign to make
illegal the sale of vitamins.
-- 
Dave Feustel N9MYI <feustel@netcom.com>
 
[.sig on vacation]
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: avery@netcom.com (Avery Ray Colter)
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.health.alternative (FORWARDED)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:09:19 GMT

No argument here, looking forward to the CFV.

-- 
Avery Ray Colter ("Elfcat") - 	avery@netcom.netcom.com (IP 192.100.81.100)
(510) 656-1902 
"Heaviness is the root of lightness; calmness is the controller of haste"
From: kja@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (krista.j.anderson)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: How to cook beans
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:40:36 GMT
Organization: AT&T

Oh, I forgot to mention, you can also sprout beans and lentils, and
that will also get rid of the oligosaccharides.  Plus you don't 
have to cook them unless desired because sprouting will get rid of
tannins and other nasties normally destroyed by boiling.  And if
you do cook them, like in soup or stirfry, they'll cook fast.
-- 
Krista Anderson, att!ihlpf!krista
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: amy@sequent.com (Amy Paschal)
Subject: Searching for Menu/Nutritional Planning Software
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 18:57:35 GMT


I'm looking for a software package that can be used to plan 
nutitionally balanced menus. Specifically, I would like one
that uses the American Diabetes Association exchange system for
planning the nutrition.

Optional nice features would be the ability to link menus with 
recipes and the ability to generate grocery lists based on the
menu plans and the recipes. 

I am willing to look at software that runs on UNIX, MacIntosh or
PCs.

If you know of any software that might fit the bill please send
me:

Software package name and vendor 
A short summary of its features
List of the platforms its runs on 
Address or phone number of vendor if you have it so I
	can obtain more info

Please send me e-mail as I don't read all of the newsgroups
posted regularly (amy@sequent.com). I'll post a summary if there
is interest.

Thanks,
Amy
From: eharbin@convex.com (Edward Harbin)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Milk is dangerous?
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:35:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: convex.eharbin.718652155
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1992Oct9.160626.21689@emr1.emr.ca> woodgold@emr1.emr.ca (Cathy Woodgold) writes:

>In article <2OCT92.15151518@nerus.pfc.mit.edu> mrl@nerus.pfc.mit.edu writes:
>>Does that mean that we should only eat foods that are designed for us?
>>Can someone please list them for me?  Thanks.
>>Mark

>It's my understanding that apples, for example, are designed for mammals.
>The apple tree produces a tasty food to induce mammals to carry the seeds
>to new places, thus spreading apple trees around.

>Cathy Woodgold

Just as cows were bred to produce milk, thus luring humans to raise them
and spread calves around.
Actually of course the evolutionary bias of the fruit would be to be appealing
to its vectors, and not to kill the vector before it breeds. None of this
stuff applies to the remarkable human case of trying to figure out what
extends us far into senescence.
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,talk.politics.animals
From: shagan@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Susan Hagan)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: request for info on how to gain body fat
Keywords: weight gain body fat
Date: 7 Oct 92 18:58:55 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

viktoria@carson.u.washington.edu (Viktoria Seibert) writes:


>I should weigh at least 145lbs if not more because of my stocky build and 
>musculature, but I don't.  Not even close.  I only weigh around 115lbs.

First of all, who says you're too thin?  You may not like being so thin,
but if you are caring for your body and this is how it reacts, perhaps this
is what is normal for you?  What does the rest of your family look like?

The one thing I would not do is eat an excessive amount of fat in order
to gain weight.  This is very bad for your heart.  

>camps, but that would only be mussel weight and my doctor and everyone else 
>says that's not what I need.  I've explained the situation to her, but she
>thinks it's still my fault, like I'm not trying enough.  Other people laugh

What kind of weight do you need then?  

I think you need to see a new doctor.  This one obviously doesn't understand
your problem.  See a nutritionist.

>I don't belive them on the grounds that people with my body type, (stocky,
>well musseled even when not exercising, big boned) usually have to watch
>their weight so they don't get fat.  They usually never go from average
>to as thin as I am without being annorexic (sp?) or something.  Also, there's
>no such thing as a stocky person in her 20s with a flat stomich, but mine's
>only flat when I've just eaten; the rest of the time, it's concave.  So I 
>conclude that I must have some genetic anomoly which isn't going to go away
>after I'm 35 and I'll be too thin the rest of my life.

I don't understand what you mean by "stocky".  I thnk you are also too wrapped
up in what *you* think you should like rather than accepting what you do
look like.

-- 
Susan R. Hagan (shagan@gandalf.rutgers.edu) 
Publications Coordinator - User Services
Rutgers University Computing Services
From: mrl@nerus.pfc.mit.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: RE: Have you heard of this?????
Date: 11 Oct 92 17:38:47 GMT
Organization: MIT PLASMA FUSION CENTER

In a previous article, kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse) wrote:
>A new study has shown that a controversial treatment for heart disease also
>helps prevent cancer. Since heart disease and cancer kill so many people, the 
>implications are considerable.  
> 
.
.
.
> 
>The really provocative thing about EDTA is that it has been disparaged by
>the American medical establishment for 3 decades. The FDA, AMA and American
>Heart Association have all treated it as a hoax, but the above studies show
>it to be a very effective treatment for common causes of death; cancer and 
>heart disease.

It may have been just a coincidence, but there were a number of favorable
studies done with EDTA in the 50's and early 60's.  However, the patent on it
ran out during the 60's, about the same time that the studies suddenly stopped.

Mark
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Freedom of "unhealthy choices"? [was Re: Cooking/Heating Protein...]
Date: 8 Oct 92 22:41:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct8.224119.3767
Distribution: na
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Oct8.173138.15646@u.washington.edu> rbradbur@hardy.u.washington.edu (Robert Bradbury) writes:
>The evidence for excessive protein intake causing premature kidney failure
>is fairly strong.

Snort.  Protein restriction is one component in the treatment of
chronic renal failure.  I've never seen any evidence that someone
with healthy kidneys needs to be worried about "premature kidney failure".

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: mjmunoz@usachux2.usach.cl (Marcelo Munoz)
Subject: re:multi-vitamins
Organization: Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Chile
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 23:35:49 GMT
From: jil@uts.uucp (Jamie Lubin)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Impact of Caffeine on Health
Date: 15 Oct 92 13:56:25 GMT
Organization: Bellcore, Piscataway, NJ

In article <1992Oct14.075038.5235@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>In article <1992Oct13.191910.8081@nynexst.com> laura@nynexst.com writes:
>> What is the impact of caffeine on health?
>
>Not a whole lot, if not taken to excess.  High daily doses can cause
>nervousness, tremulousness, insomnia and some mild heartbeat
>irregularities in certain people.  What's "high"?  Well it depends.
>More than 4-5 cups of strong coffee a day might get you into the
>area of 800mg-1000mg/day or more, which is definitely on the high side.
>Your habit of drinking coffee or other caffeinated beverages should
>be looked at if you have any of these symptoms, if only because they
>might be helped by reducing or eliminating caffeine from your diet.

It's also a trigger for migraines in susceptible individuals.
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,talk.politics.drugs,alt.psychoactives,alt.drugs,alt.privacy
From: delisle@eskimo.celestial.com (Ben Delisle)
Subject: CFV: talk.politics.medicine
Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <-
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 06:45:33 GMT

	This is a CALL FOR VOTES for the creation of
	one new newsgroup : talk.politics.medicine  
 	The voting period will be 12-Oct-1992 through 2-Nov-1992  

  In order to vote for or against this newsgroup, you must send a mail
message to the address mail-server@pit-manager.mit.edu.  If your site
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	mail-server@pit-manager.mit.edu@athena.mit.edu
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If none of these addresses works, talk to someone at your site who can
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Votes mailed to the poster of this message will not be counted.

  Your mail should contain one of the following three lines, either in
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The first two lines register a vote either for or against the creation
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news group:
 
     Proposed Title:  talk.politics.medicine  

Charter:
       talk.politics.medicine, unmoderated.
A newsgroup to discuss politics and ethics in medicine and related
sciences and fields. Topics may include discussions on whether:
medical care should be socialized; insurance be paid for by the
individual, the company, or the state; or if it is even mandatory.
They may also include discussions on ethics of cross-species transplants;
if fetal material should be used or not; government intervention  
into the health care choices of people (such as permitting (or not)
alternative medicine to coexist with mainstream medicine, nutritional
medicine, or preventive medicine); parental or individual (non)consent to
mandatory immunization or treatment that may violate ethical or religious
beliefs; euthanasia for terminal, vegetative, or severely crippled people,
be it voluntary or non voluntary; and the right to help or refuse care to
patients based on ability to pay, ability to help or care for them, or
based on any disease they may be carrying; or any other related topics.   
-- 
 delisle@eskimo.celestial.com | Nothing is fool-proof, fools are too ingenious.

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: woodgold@emr1.emr.ca (Cathy Woodgold)
Subject: Re: Protein intake and kidney disease
Organization: Energy, Mines, and Resources, Ottawa
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:58:07 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.053710.21608@pegasus.com> richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) writes:
>`Currently accepted medical treatments' used to be based on `careful review
>of the literature' and other vehicles of scientific knowledge.
>Did that change while I looked away for a minute?
>Richard Foulk		richard@pegasus.com
No doubt some currently accepted medical treatments are based on
careful review of the literature.  However, many are not.  Some examples:

A few weeks before I gave birth, my fetus was x-rayed, in spite of
scientific studies failing to show any significant diagnostic value 
of x-rays for the purpose intended (prediction of cephalo-pelvic
disproportion with a baby in the breech position).

My baby was taken into a separate room from me for four hours soon
after birth, in spite of numerous studies showing benefits of
having mother and baby together.

My baby was not, I think, given a bottle of water soon after birth,
but it was clear that giving such a bottle, with an artificial
nipple, was standard practice at the hospital, in spite of studies
showing that the use of artificial nipples can cause nipple confusion
and reduces the average duration of breastfeeding.

I'm planning to give birth to my next baby at home;  statistical studies
show that this is safer than the hospital (provided that a midwife
is in attendance and that transport to hospital is available in
case of major medical problems).

Cathy Woodgold  woodgold@seismo.emr.ca  Ottawa, Canada  Standard disclaimers
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Cytotoxic Testing and the Food Sensitivity Diet
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:54:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct16.165440.15816
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <ihogan.6.0@christ.acu.edu.au> ihogan@christ.acu.edu.au (Ian MacDonald Hogan) writes:
>Hi, I am new to this news group.  I am following up on a book I recently      
>purchased - "The Food Sensitivity Diet" by Doug A. Kaufmann with Racquel      
>Skolnik.                                                                      
>                                                                              
>In the book it is claimed that a vast proportion of the population are        
>sensitive to at least some of the foods they eat regularly.  This leads to    
>below optimal health by a build up of toxins which attack the immune system.  
>As a result of this it is recomended that individuals discover their          
>sensitivities and adjust their diet accordingly.  One aspect of this is the   
>use of Cytotoxic testing - a blood sample is taken and drops are used to      
>determine the effect of different foods on white blood cells.                 
>It was claimed that many people suffering from headaches, joint pains, URTI,  
>MS and many other diseases would benefit from this diet adjustment.           

It's bogus.  Don't bother.  The principles of "cytotoxic testing" are bogus.
The test itself is bogus.  Any improvement you get out of this will be purely
a result of believing that you're doing something useful for yourself.

Have you tried the _Fit for Life_ diet?  (Just kidding.)

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition