HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rrh@sei.cmu.edu (Robert Holibaugh)
Subject: Re: BlackJack in Colorado?
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 21:53:26 GMT

I have been to Colorado twice in August.  I have been in most of the casinos
in Cripple Creek, and as I posted previously there are 2 or 3 casinos with
single deck BJ games.  

The Star Casino in Cripple Creek has a single deck, S17, DAS, nRSA, DOA, LS
with 80+% penetration.  When playing head-on, I constantly thought that the
dealer would run out of cards.  I know there were several occasions when there
were fewer than 10 cards remaining at the shuffle.  When playing with 4
others, we ran out of cards three shuffles in a row.  There was no heat, and
splitting to multiple hands of $5 was readily accepted.

The Star has only one single deck table with 6 positions.  At a full table, we
were getting three rounds.  They do have two other tables with shoes.  With $2
to $5 limits, the potential for big profit is low, but it is an excellent
game.

When I was in Black Hawk, I did not see any single deck games, but I was only
in 2 or 3 casinos.

Robert Holibaugh                                          rrh@sei.cmu.edu
Software Engineering Institute                            412-268-6750
Carnegie Mellon University                                Pittsburgh, PA 15213
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Subject: Re: BARGE into Vegas
In-reply-to: hack@arabia.uucp's message of 14 Aug 1992 14:26:22 GMT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
	<1992Aug14.142622.9886@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>
Date: 14 Aug 92 09:43:15

In article <1992Aug14.142622.9886@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> hack@arabia.uucp (Edmund Hack) writes:
>Actually, it's Dr. Hack, board-certified Anesthesiologist, gas-passer
>par excellance, dispenser of more wierd drugs than you can shake a stick
>at.  Come to think of it one of them, Versed, could come in handy. It
>relaxes and sedates you, and best of all, it trashes your short term
>memory so that you don't remember anything that happens while you are on
>it.

We made need some of that when if comes time for Michael to buzz the
Vegas World tower....

>She is somewhat apprehensive at the prospect of being the only female
>there, so all you female rec.gamblers - Come on down!

In an emergency, maybe we can get JR to dress up in his Little Bo Peep
costume.  Hmm, we may need a bunch of Versed to pull this off...

>>
>>It appears that several BARGErs will be arriving on or before Wednesday 8/19.
>>Perhaps we should get together for an informal "opening ceremony" of some
>>kind.  Maybe we can find a small pit.critter to feed to the tigers at the
>>Mirage or to sacrifice to the volcano, something like that :-)  Suggestions?
>>(No, the Michael Flying event won't be scheduled until later in the week)
>
> You could burn John Patrick in effigy, and get the Frontier strikers to
> join you.....

Excellent!  Then the BJ players can all dress up as Ken Uston lookalikes
-- it's the perfect disguise, nobody would expect a card counter to *try*
to look like Uston!  Could drive the pit critters completely nuts...
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Never teach a card counter to sing.  It wastes your time and gets the card
 counter barred."
From: dbrandt@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (David Brandt)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Info needed for Vegas trip
Date: 16 Aug 92 21:37:48 GMT
Reply-To: dbrandt@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (David Brandt)
Distribution: usa
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin
Originator: dbrandt@pooh.cc.utexas.edu

A friend and I have decided to take a spur-of-the-moment
trip to Vegas.  I am very unwise in the art of getting travel and/or
rooms comped.  I am hoping that someone could mail me some good ideas
for 2 people driving to Las Vegas on a VERY low budget (less than $200
per person for the entire trip).  Is this too low for hotels to be 
interested?  

Please mail responses.  I read this group a year back but no longer do,
but I will post a short trip summary to help other gambling newbies
when I get back.

Thanks
Dave
dbrandt@cs.utexas.edu

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jog@kpc.com (Rajeev Jog)
Subject: Air/Hotel packages for Vegas?
Organization: Kubota Pacific Computers Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:24:38 GMT

What's a good source for air[from SJC/SFO]/hotel/rental car combination
deals to Las Vegas? I'm planning on going there in early October and
combine it with a drive to the Grand Canyon.

Please reply by e-mail.  Thanks in advance,

-- 
Rajeev Jog
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kubota Pacific Computer Inc.                                   +1 408 727 8100
2630 Walsh Avenue, Santa Clara, CA. 95051-0905, USA.               jog@kpc.com
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: philipg@sco.COM (Philip Gordon)
Subject: send me...
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:30:58 GMT
Followup-To: rec.gambling



Could someone please send the basic strategy table for standard
Northern Nevada rules?

Phil Gordon

PS: What's the ftp site for the FAQ?
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart)
Subject: Re: Betting both sides to get Comps
Organization: my opinions only
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:45:11 GMT

In article <JACOBS.92Aug13113351@cells.cs.utah.edu> jacobs@cs.utah.edu
(Steven R Jacobs) writes:

>Yup, but that is a two edged sword.  Variance also increase the risk to
>the casino (and before anyone says "what risk, the casino has a huge
>bankroll", I'll say "then why do casinos sometimes go broke?").  If the
>games had zero variance, the casino wouldn't _need_ a huge bankroll.

Casinos go broke when customers stay away in droves.

I've never heard of a casino going broke because gamblers won too
much.

For that matter, would anyone care to estimate the log-optimal bet
size on craps or roulette for the casino?  I doubt that any bet larger
than that is often made.  Betting less than log-optimal gives a zero
risk of ruin.

Restaurants have "zero variance" in that they make money on every
meal, but they still go bankrupt a lot.

Seth		sethb@fid.morgan.com
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Subject: Re: Video Poker
In-reply-to: jschwarz@lonestar.utsa.edu's message of 13 Aug 92 18:00:55 GMT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Date: 13 Aug 92 13:14:52

In article <1992Aug13.180055.4872@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> jschwarz@lonestar.utsa.edu (Jan A. Schwarz) writes:

> Hi, everyone.  I read on the FAQ that when playing video poker
> it take about 1700 consecutive bets to hit a jackpot.  (This may
> not be the exact figure but I think it was somewhere around this.)

No, the FAQ says that you need a bankroll of about 1700 max. bets in
order to play long enough to hit the royal flush.  When playing the
strategy listed in the FAQ, it takes an average of about 33,000 plays
to hit a royal flush.  If you exclude the royal flush payoff, you are
playing with a disadvantage of about 5%, so it takes an average of
about 20 plays to lose one max. bet.

> My question is, if you are playing a quarter machine (or even the
> dollar machine) when speaking of the 1700 consecutive bets, is this
> meaning putting 1700 coins in the machine or "pushing the button"
> 1700 times?

Neither.  It means you need about 8500 quarters to survive for 33,000
plays in order to have a good shot (67%) at hitting the royal flush.
During that time, your total action will be about 165,000 coins, but
you will be physically exhausted and your vision will have blurred to
about 20/2000, so you won't care :-)

--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Never teach a card counter to sing.  It wastes your time and gets the card
 counter barred."
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: eshen@intelhf.hf.intel.com (Eric Shen)
Subject: Clumping in Blackjack
Summary: Card Clumping in Blackjack
Organization: Development Tools Operation, Intel Corp., Hillsboro  OR
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 22:18:35 GMT

Hi,

I've recently read a blackjack book (I think the name was
"Blackjack Handbook" or something link that).  In there,
the author mentioned the phenomena of card clumping whereby
even if the count is increasing to riduculously high counts,
the dealer is still hitting on 16s and surviving.  He states
that is due to a large group of small cards that are clumped
together after the shuffle and as a result, the count rises but
the deck is still in favor of the dealer.  

I was wondering if anybody has every studied this phenomena or
is it just supersition.  Personally, I never play with 6-deck
shoes, so I rarely see this.  Does anybody out in NETland ever
encountered this or actually made some money off this?

Regards,
Eric Shen
Intel Corporation
(eshen@pcocd2.intel.com)
From: hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Clumping in Blackjack
Date: 21 Aug 92 23:24:12 GMT
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division

In article <1992Aug21.064320.4081@unlv.edu> lucifer@unlv.edu (Marco Westerweel) writes:
>In article <1992Aug14.221835.21549@intelhf.hf.intel.com> eshen@intelhf.hf.intel.com (Eric Shen) writes:
>>Hi,
>>
>>I've recently read a blackjack book (I think the name was
>>"Blackjack Handbook" or something link that).  In there,
>>the author mentioned the phenomena of card clumping whereby
>>even if the count is increasing to riduculously high counts,
>>the dealer is still hitting on 16s and surviving.  He states
>>that is due to a large group of small cards that are clumped
>>together after the shuffle and as a result, the count rises but
>>the deck is still in favor of the dealer.  
>
>That's not the entire story but close. "Clumping" groups together
>portions of high valued cards which the dealer manuevers to the
>front of the deck in the hope that you will cut them out of play
>(i.e. behind the cut card.)

No, no, no.  Like-card clumping is a phenomenon that occurs even
in nonantagonistic computer simulations of casino shuffles, due
to the pick-up order and the fact that the shuffles are too weak
to really mix up the cards.  The sort of reverse shuffle-tracking
you describe (I vaguely recall it might be called "zoning" in _Card
Counting for the Casino Executive_) requires intensional antagonistic
actions by the dealer.  That sort of thing is illegal in New Jersey,
but I'm sure it would be fine with the _wonderful_ Nevada courts.

-- 
Michael Hall            \"...the physicist is often in the same position as the
NASA Ames Research Center\ gambler... Every time that he reasons by induction,
hall@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov \he requires the calculus of probabilities"-Poincare'
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: why@kpc.com (Will Hyde)
Subject: Re: Pai Gow poker at AC
Organization: Kubota Pacific Computer Inc, Santa Clara, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:19:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.181107.26383@njitgw.njit.edu> hou@hertz.njit.edu (Edwin Hou fac ece) writes:
>I was in Trump plaza (AC) and played a couple of hands of PaiGow poker.
>In one hand I was dealt QAAxxxx and set it up as Qx AAxxx,
>the dealer had K7788xx. 
>He first set it up as Kx 7788x and then when he
>turned over the first player's cards, he looked puzzled, checked
>with the pit boss, pit boss looked puzzled too and checked
>a card and changed the hand to 77 88Kxx. I wonder if anybody
>knows what are the rules governing how the dealer play his hand.
>I was lucky but the first player had a push changed to a lost.


  Don't know about Atlantic City, maybe they don't use "standard" rules
  ... but rule #44 from the rulebook at the Garden City makes is very
  clear:

  "...Once the first player's hand has been *exposed* the DP (Designated
  Player--the house doesn't play) may not reset his hand...."

  -will

-- 
________________________________________________________________________
___ why@kpc.com   LADY LUCK IS A FICKLE BITCH, AND HER NAME IS KARMA ___
___ -** --- * ***   -* --- -   *** *- -*--   -* --- - **** ** -* --* ___
___ JUSTINCASE:  Guest acct. This writer does not work/speak for kpc ___
From: jxr@thumper.bellcore.com (Jonathan Rosenberg)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: BARGE into Vegas
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:35:27 GMT
Organization: Bellcore

From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Subject: Re: BARGE into Vegas
Date: 14 Aug 92 09:43:15

	In article <1992Aug14.142622.9886@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> hack@arabia.uucp
		(Edmund Hack) writes:
	Actually, it's Dr. Hack, board-certified Anesthesiologist, gas-passer
	par excellance, dispenser of more wierd drugs than you can shake a stick
	at.  Come to think of it one of them, Versed, could come in handy. It
	relaxes and sedates you, and best of all, it trashes your short term
	memory so that you don't remember anything that happens while you are
	 on it.

	>She is somewhat apprehensive at the prospect of being the only female
	>there, so all you female rec.gamblers - Come on down!

Jacobs> In an emergency, maybe we can get JR to dress up in his Little Bo Peep
Jacobs> costume.  Hmm, we may need a bunch of Versed to pull this off...

Now, that's hitting below the belt, Steve!  You know I don't do drugs. 
Besides, 12 hours of playing poker & drinking coffeee has the same
affect as Versed.  Plus, you can remain (mostly) concious.

Edmund: just tell the good Dr. to watch out when we get to the line "...
dragging their tails behind them".

JR
From: irwin@uvmark.uucp (Frank Irwin)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Chip diving
Keywords: yuk!
Date: 19 Aug 92 22:16:52 GMT
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <davem.36.714237009@county.lmt.mn.org> davem@county.lmt.mn.org (David Mackmiller) writes:
>
>A friend of mine told me that her husband fished four $1 chips out of a
>toilet at the Mystic Lake Casino.

$1 chips?  A mere rookie.

-- 
 ============================================================================
 Frank Irwin                   | "Mike and Blair have the lowest ___________
 Vmark Software, Inc.          |  to ____________ ratio of all rec.gamblers."
 irwin%uvmark@merk.com         |     - You fill in the blanks.
From: hack@arabia.uucp (Edmund Hack)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Bet Doubling Method
Date: 19 Aug 1992 20:19:56 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Lockheed ESC, Houston

In article <jason.23@dcs.umd.edu> jason@dcs.umd.edu (Jason Steinhorn) writes:
>In article <1992Aug6.133132.14270@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> mnh@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
>
>>[discussing Martingale betting]
>> The casinos have maximum table limits beyond which one cannot increase
>>his/her bet, which fails the method.
>
>Actually, we were just talking about this at lunch.
>Apparantly, the Horseshoe in LV just changed it's rule which provided for NO
>table maximums at any of their table games.

My understanding of the Horseshoe's policy is that they will waive the
table limits to the amount you place as your initial bet.  Wanna bet
$2,000,000 - O.K. if it is your FIRST bet.  That then becomes your
limit.  The $2e6 is cited in a book I have as a bet that one of the
Binion sons said that they would take at Craps if asked.


-- 
| Edmund Hack - Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co. - Houston, TX
| hack@aio.jsc.nasa.gov    SpokesPersonp(Me,or(NASA,LESC)) = NIL
| "No the game never ends when your whole
|       world depends on the turn of a friendly card"
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: ch2m@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Christopher  Houston)
Subject: Re: Big August rec.gambling excursion
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 05:37:35 GMT

Me again, the net newcomer who first asked, "Hey, where's the party?  Quick,
I'm leaving Thursday."  Anyway, it seems that the vote is in favor of a
rendezvous at the Frontier, 2 AM, craps table, so that's what I'll take with
me, and that's where I'll be next weekend.  One question that needs to be
clarified, though: some wrote as if they meant 2 AM Friday nite/Saturday 
morning, while others wrote as if they intended 2 AM Saturday nite/Sunday
morning.  For what it's worth, I think the 2 AM Saturday nite/Sunday morning
thing would be best, in case there are any stragglers who don't get in until
Saturday--whereas, let's face it, nobody leaves Las Vegas on Saturday, so
everyone should be available at this preferred time.

With that in mind, I'm outta here.  Wish me luck for this weekend, and I'll
look for you all next Saturday nite/Sunday morning, 2 AM, at the Frontier
for craps, food, dealer abuse, etc.

Adios,
Chris Houston

University of Virginia
Department of Psychology
ch2m@virginia.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: messiah@nevada.edu (MHW)
Subject: Re: Clumping in Blackjack
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 00:54:46 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.232412.26028@kronos.arc.nasa.gov> hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall) writes:
>In article <1992Aug21.064320.4081@unlv.edu> lucifer@unlv.edu (Marco Westerweel) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug14.221835.21549@intelhf.hf.intel.com> eshen@intelhf.hf.intel.com (Eric Shen) writes:
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>I've recently read a blackjack book (I think the name was
>>>"Blackjack Handbook" or something link that).  In there,
>>>the author mentioned the phenomena of card clumping whereby
>>>even if the count is increasing to riduculously high counts,
>>>the dealer is still hitting on 16s and surviving.  He states
>>>that is due to a large group of small cards that are clumped
>>>together after the shuffle and as a result, the count rises but
>>>the deck is still in favor of the dealer.  
>>
>>That's not the entire story but close. "Clumping" groups together
>>portions of high valued cards which the dealer manuevers to the
>>front of the deck in the hope that you will cut them out of play
>>(i.e. behind the cut card.)
>
>No, no, no.  Like-card clumping

While I am aware of that phenomenon as well, it does not strike me as
though that's what Mr. Eric Shen was inquiring about. For one thing, I
don't see the words "like-card" in his post anywhere, also the bit about
the count rising ad infinitum but still favouring the dealer would
indicate to me that this post has to do with cutting a bunch of high cards
out of play (what you refer to as "zoning"). 

Btw - I liked the treatise you did on expoiliting the non-randomness of
shuffles.

>is a phenomenon that occurs even
>in nonantagonistic computer simulations of casino shuffles, due
>to the pick-up order and the fact that the shuffles are too weak
>to really mix up the cards.  

>The sort of reverse shuffle-tracking
>you describe (I vaguely recall it might be called "zoning" in _Card
>Counting for the Casino Executive_) requires intensional antagonistic
>actions by the dealer.  That sort of thing is illegal in New Jersey,
>but I'm sure it would be fine with the _wonderful_ Nevada courts.

Yep. 
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: davem@county.lmt.mn.org (David Mackmiller)
Subject: Chip diving
Keywords: yuk!
Organization: LaserMaster R&D, Minneapolis, MN  USA
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:10:09 GMT


A friend of mine told me that her husband fished four $1 chips out of a toilet at the 
Mystic Lake Casino.  *Someone elses* chips.

I guess we all have our price, eh Steve?

DaveMac
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
              ...it's not funny 'til someone loses an eye.
------------------------------+-----------------------+--------------------
mail: davem@county.lmt.mn.org | flames: alt.good.news | Opinions=mine alone
------------------------------+-----------------------+--------------------
From: jimp@jeeves.ucsd.edu (Jim Piercy)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Stupak's
Summary: Not deserving of a "full-on stiffy"
Date: 15 Aug 92 04:46:30 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <davem.27.713636965@county.lmt.mn.org> davem@county.lmt.mn.org (David Mackmiller) writes:
>
>A couple of weeks ago there was some chatter in a.g. about Bob
>Stupak's Vegas World.  Unfortunately, I didn't pay much attention to
>it, having played there one evening ('nuff said).  Now my
>father-in-law read about their deal and it gave him full-on stiffy. 
>He's trying to get me to go with him.
>
>You know the deal, $n00 for the room gets you $x00 in bogus slot
>action, $y00 in BJ match play, $z00 in misc bullshit (where x+y+z>n,
>but the expected value = n).
>
>What was the final verdict?  Was it worth the hassle?
>
The May 1992 Las Vegas Advisor says that the offer can be analyzed as
follows:

	Cash at 100%
	Table Action at 50%
	Slot Action at 10%

I went about five years ago, I was expecting a rip-off and I wasn't
disappointed.  Everything was as bad as I could imagine and some
was worse:  one "bonus" was a picture of you in front of "One Million
Dollars".  It turned out to be a polaroid in front of a sign that said
"One Million Dollars".  My friend and I chose a certain hand gesture for
the picture which we planned to send to Bob as a token of our esteem
(but never did).  The litte old lady who took the picture said, "Same
to you, boys!", in a cheery voice.  Anyway, I'm never planning to take
a "Virtually Free Vacation" again.

Jim Piercy
piercy@spectra.com

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: Kent Y Hua <khua@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Best bets
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 02:16:46 GMT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Hello, I was wondering what is the best bet on the crap table?  Is there a suc 
thing?  There are so many choices what is the best one?  Thanks in advance.


Kent
From: baw2@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Bruce A Weisberg)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Chip diving
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:06:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Aug19.200644.8407
Reply-To: baw2@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Bruce A Weisberg)
Organization: Columbia University

In article <JACOBS.92Aug19133221@cells.cs.utah.edu> jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs) writes:
>In article <davem.36.714237009@county.lmt.mn.org> davem@county.lmt.mn.org (David Mackmiller) writes:
>>
>> A friend of mine told me that her husband fished four $1 chips out of a
>> toilet at the Mystic Lake Casino.  *Someone elses* chips.
>>
>> I guess we all have our price, eh Steve?
>
>I think you have me confused with Frank....
>--
>Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
>"Never teach a card counter to sing.  It wastes your time and gets the card
> counter barred."

	And I thought playing BJ in A.C was pissing my money away......


Bruce
From: jschwarz@lonestar.utsa.edu (Jan A. Schwarz)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Video Poker
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:00:55 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio


  Hi, everyone.  I read on the FAQ that when playing video poker
  it take about 1700 consecutive bets to hit a jackpot.  (This may
  not be the exact figure but I think it was somewhere around this.)

  My question is, if you are playing a quarter machine (or even the
  dollar machine) when speaking of the 1700 consecutive bets, is this
  meaning putting 1700 coins in the machine or "pushing the button"
  1700 times?

  Any information would be appreciated.

  Jan