From: chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney)
Subject: Re: Shameless attack on pro-choicers in general!
Organization: California State University: Sacramento
Distribution: world 
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 19:21:35 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.183624.7392@pwcs.stpaul.gov> chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman) writes:
>chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney) writes:
>> margoli@watson.ibm.com writes:
>>> chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney) writes:
>
>>>> The z/e/f does. A common person's view of what I'm
>>>> saying, might be, "Feed all the chicken soup you want, to sperm, ova,
>>>> skin cells, or warts, but they just won't differentiate." Can't say
>>>> that about the z/e/f.
>
>>> If this were true, there would be much less controversy.  Unfortunately,
>>> you *can't* feed chicken soup to a z/e/f; you have to filter it through
>>> a *person*.
>
>Which is true for sperm and ova too!

Which would assume that they're individuals who are growing. 
Seeing as that this is not true, your claim is proven false simply
because it leads to a contradiction. 

Your statement fell into a _well-built_ and easy-to-see trap.  Then again 
it takes someone who can see it, to dodge it.

>> Isn't that a harmless sort of slavery, those latter 48 months? It sure
>> looks, to me, a lot longer than 9 months. But then again, I came from
>> Earth Math School, were 48 > 9. Mathematics may vary for others. :) 
>
>"Harmless sort of slavery:"  something that Kevin Welch said, as I recall.

But the "harmless sort of slavery" wasn't referring to pregnancy.
Welch's was. My revision of his words was referring to after-birth
parenthood, which is a lot longer and effort-oriented than pre-birth
parenthood (pregnancy). 

>Hmmm.  <sniff> <sniff>  Aha, it's flamebait!

Y'know, that marijuana is getting to your brain. Clear your mind out
in a hurry before you make the mistake of archiving my version of what
Welch said; it's not referring to pregnancy. 

>> In other words: 
>> What's the critical difference? 
>
>The difference is that the fetus has first dibs on every calorie that
>the mother consumes.  That might give you something of a clue as to why
>a woman might not want to be pregnant.

Well, any child in the household has dibs on whatever food comes into
it. If they don't eat, you go to jail for starving them, even though
you'd rather keep all that food to yourself. 

Sure, it gives me a big clue as to why a woman might not want to be
pregnant. But unless the pregnancy is fatal or severely injurious,
that is as irrelevant as the issue of knowing why a parent might not
want to feed or support a child in their dependency. 

>Imo, the most important reason for a woman to be pregnant is that she
>_wants_ to be pregnant!

And the most important reason for a parent to be a parent is that s/he
_wants_ to be a parent? That could be a valid assumption in general
(covering parents of born and unborn children, universally). However,
that point, legally, is irrelevant: no matter how the child got under
your dependency, you're legally held to ensure their health & survival
until someone else can take up the job. So in this case, _want_ is
irrelevant. 

Pro-choice is wholly compromised on this already-existing principle,
and "bodily autonomy" is severely compromised as well.  


===============================================================================
			Robert Casey for President '96! 
			 This Casey never strikes out.
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