HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.audio

>A potential purchaser of high end cabling should / must first know the input and
>output impedences of their support hardware, then go out and locate that
>cabling that "matches" that system's "signiture".
>In this way, they have a much better chance of getting the most out of their
>system.

Nope, and here's why.

The following is the sum total of impedance concerns in cabling for audio:

1. The resistance should be kept as low as practical.  (Note: NOT "as low as
   *possible*", just as low as practical.  Resistance equals straight
   frequency-independent loss, which can almost always be compensated for
   by slight increases in gain elsewhere.)

2. In the case of interconnects ONLY, we're talking about relatively high-
   impedance areas of the system; this makes the cable capacitance and
   inductance more important.  Using low-capacitance cabling is important
   here; fortunately, series inductance is easy to reduce - simply using
   shielded twisted-pair likely gets you the best results in this area, with
   decent coax a close second.

3. In the case of speaker cabling, we're in a very low-impedance part of the
   system, with relatively high signal levels.  Sheilding is a waste of time,
   and cable capacitance and inductance are not concerns unless you're either
   using some pretty bizarre cable or have much longer cable runs than the
   norm.  If you're worried about inductance here, simply twisting the
   cable will reduce this to insignificance; you generally won't get enough
   total capacitance in *any* configuration to make a hill of beans difference.

4. In all cases, getting some decent (not "magic", just "decent" connectors and
   *properly* attaching them to the cable is always a Good Idea.

Note that I have said nothing about "matching" the cable's impedance (or
any other qualities) to the system at hand; this is for two reasons.  First,
the frequencies we're talking about a far too low for the cable's "characteris-
tic impedance" (for example, the "50 ohms" of RG-8 coax) to make any 
difference.  We are NOT in the realm of "transmission line effects" at the
frequencies and cable lengths involved; at 100 kHz, a wavelength in cable is
still almost two kilometers, and so these sorts of things simply aren't a
problem.  As far as the lumped-parameter values are concerned, well, there's
no "matching" required - in other words, there is no reason to select for
a specific value.  In ALL areas of the system, the following is true for
cable:

	1. The lower the resistance, the better.
	2. The lower the capacitance, the better.
	3. The lower the inductance, the better.

In any normal system, at any point within it, these requirements can be
satisfied beyond the ability of the ear to discriminate by fairly ordinary
cabling, properly installed.


Bob Myers  KC0EW   Hewlett-Packard Co.      |Opinions expressed here are not
                   User Interface Tech. Div.|those of my employer or any other
myers@fc.hp.com    Fort Collins, Colorado   |sentient life-form on this planet.
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: fineberg@win31.nas.nasa.gov (Samuel A. Fineberg)
Subject: Re: Sony formally introduces MD on 9-10-92
Organization: CSC, NASA Ames Research Center, NAS Division
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 16:42:28 GMT
Reply-To: fineberg@nas.nasa.gov

In article <lb2gc9INN834@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM>, bender@oobleck (Duke of Canterbury) writes:
|> And now, Mohit's article re-posted for those of us that had trouble reading
|> double-spaced text:
|> 
|> goyal@utdallas.edu (Mohit K. Goyal) writes:
  -----------------------
|>  How long do people think it will be before prices start falling on the
|>  MD equipment?  I don't know how long it was before prices of CD players
|>  went down from their intial high prices.
CDs came out in 1981.  They didn't gain wide acceptance until `85-`86 (that was 
also when they broke the <$200 barrier).  Since MDs are intended as a low-end
product, the price had better drop before 1997.

Sam
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.audio,sci.skeptic,comp.sys.atari.st
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:05:15 -0400 
From: Stefan Monnier <sm86+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: sampling and human hearing range (was Re: (none))
	<1410@eouk9.eoe.co.uk>

Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.atari.st: 14-Sep-92 Re: sampling and
human hear.. Andrew Haley@eoe.co.uk (1276)
> This is utter nonsense.  44.1kHz was used because video tape recorders
> were used to master CDs, and thus the sampling rate had to be a
> multiple of the TV scan frequency.

> Andrew.


Just a little question:

is TV scan frequency 22.05, 14.7 or 11.025 Khz ?

I mean, 44.1 Khz is NOT a multiple of horizontal scan frequency
and I can't see any other relevant frequency in TV scan
(vertical is much too low, dot bandwidth is much too high)

	Stefan Monnier

-----------------------------------------------------
-- On the average, people seem to be acting normal --
-----------------------------------------------------
From: exulme@exu.ericsson.se (Michael Englund, T-TDT, x0996)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Green Pens & CDs (was Re: Very expensi
Date: 9 Sep 92 04:11:18 GMT
Reply-To: exulme@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.

In article 3wx@mentor.cc.purdue.edu, ags@seaman.cc.purdue.edu (Dave Seaman) writes:
>Actually, the data and the label are both on the same side of the CD. The  
>data is read through the plastic, from the opposite (non-label) side.
>
>--
>Dave Seaman
>ags@seaman.cc.purdue.edu




Ahhh, That's why CDs sound so transparent :-), I always wondered.

---
Michael L. Englund
Ericson Network Systems, Software Verification Techniques
Richardson, TX  75081, USA
Internet:  exulme@exu.ericsson.se   phone:  +1-214-997-0996
From: BARRON@RHQVM14.VNET.IBM.COM
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 08:15:09 EDT
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Ground Loops
Reply-To: BARRON@RHQVM14.VNET.IBM.COM

Try this one....

The Hummm, and other problems (wavy bar running up the screen, etc) are
usually due to ground loops through the cable system/your system.

Try using a pair of back to back 75 - 300 ohm matching transformers

That is

Coax (from wall) to (75==>300) to (300==>75) to Coax to TV.

This should isolate the cable Co's ground and only introduce a very minute
loss.

Organization: Advantis Network Engineering and Planning
Disclaimer: This reflects the poster's views, not those of Advantis
News-Software: Usenet 3.0
X-X-From: Dave Barron

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart)
Subject: Re: Very expensive cables
Organization: my opinions only
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 05:05:32 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.150741.141@scic.intel.com> sbradley@scic.intel.com (Seth Bradley) writes:
>In article <1992Sep9.050303.18554@lugb.latrobe.edu.au> MATGBB@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU (BYRNES,Graham) writes:

>>Ok, the world is not linear, strange things can happen. What we really need
>>is a signed guarantee that, under certain circumstances a rep of the maker
                                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>can distinguish the cable from 12g lamp cable in a double-blind test. And
>>that if s/he fails to do so when challenged, the maker will refund a 
>>multiple of the purchase price. A multiple of 10 would be my suggestion.

>  I guess that the vineyard that
>produces a wine that costs $50 bottle should offer the same 10X guarantee
>if the purchaser can't tell it from Ripple.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

See the difference?  If the winemaker can't tell his wine apart from a
cheaper one, he shouldn't be making it.  If you have no tasting
ability, you shouldn't buy it.

Likewise, if the manufacturer of the cables can't find anyone who can
distinguish his cables in a double blind test, he shouldn't be selling
them.  If he can, but you can't hear the difference, don't buy them.

>  I suppose we should ignore
>the empirical evidence that different wine judges tend to produce like
>ratings (a similar state of affairs exists in high-end audio).

Except that in wine tastings, the judges often taste blind (the wine
has been poured into unlabelled containers).  I've never heard of a
high-end audio reviewer not knowing the identity of the item reviewed.

>  But to state that others can't tell 
>the difference is supreme arrogance.

I haven't seen anything that says others can't tell the difference;
what I have seen are postings that say nobody has proven that he can
tell the difference.  With a lack of conclusive evidence, you can
believe whatever you want.

Seth		sethb@fid.morgan.com
From: henken@ocf.berkeley.edu (Matthew J. Henken)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Very expensive cables
Date: 10 Sep 1992 18:43:59 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: tsunami.berkeley.edu

In article <67962@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt0179a@prism.gatech.EDU (Mike Chu) writes:
>In a cost-no-object
>system spending X000 dollars for cable to find an ideal match is not
>uncommon -- luckily I found a close-to-ideal match for my system for around
>one hundreth of the above cost.  

You spent only X0?  Shit, I got ripped off.  I couldn't find cables for less
than $Y0.

Matthew J. Henken :-{<I can't believe I'm wasting bandwidth like this>]
henken@ocf.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Subject: Re: Best type of CD changer?
Reply-To: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 17:42:26 GMT

If you are in the market for a good changer, check out the Pioneer
one that is a combined carousel/laserdisc player. It takes 5 CDs in
the carousel and you can play laserdiscs without having to remove the CDs !
A friend bought one earlier this year - he loves it. It saves you having
to buy an LD player later.

Another thing you may want to consider is, if you have or are planning to
get a car CD changer, keep in mind that they all use cartridges, so if
you can make life easier by buying a brand such as Pioneer, JVC, etc. that
make home and car changers that use the same cartridge.
From: The Grand Puba of wire
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: FOR SALE: Perfect Audio Cables. $10,000,00
Date: 11 Sep 1992 21:30:06 GMT
Organization: Music hose for hosers corp.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: whoever
NNTP-Posting-Host: flyboy.ebay.sun.com
Keywords: Oh yeah!

>$!0M.  WIll be custom built.   Length of each cable will NOT exceed
>2 feet.  By appointment only.

>Bapcha - A very bad boy from Cypress Semiconductor


Well, if your wire is anything like your CPUs, it's a ripoff !!!!!!!!!!!!!



Grand Puba of Wire






Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: sbradley@scic.intel.com (Seth Bradley)
Subject: Re: Very expensive cables
Organization: Intel SCIC, Beaverton, OR
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 15:07:41 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.050303.18554@lugb.latrobe.edu.au> MATGBB@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU (BYRNES,Graham) writes:
>> What we need is some sort of standard measurement criteria that is printed on
>> all high end cabling packaging.
>> It should state it's impedence / capacitance / inductance etc.
>Well, if it did, how many buyers would know what to do with them?
>If you use a standard linear model E-M propagation in a cable, for usual
>(low) amp impedance, 2 to 8 ohm speaker impedance, your predicted response
>for any sane cable will be that it is perfect. It might be possible to
>construct a cable that would roll off hf or cause your amp to oscillate,
>but surely that is a defect, not a feature.
>
>Ok, the world is not linear, strange things can happen. What we really need
>is a signed guarantee that, under certain circumstances a rep of the maker
>can distinguish the cable from 12g lamp cable in a double-blind test. And
>that if s/he fails to do so when challenged, the maker will refund a 
>multiple of the purchase price. A multiple of 10 would be my suggestion.

Well, lets see: we can submit samples of various wines to mass spectrum
analysis.  Therefore, we can tell exactly which proportions of each
element exist in each sample.  We can conclude that this will enable
us to determine which wines taste better than others by objective means.
What?  You mean to say we CAN'T tell which is better by the method?
But surely we know what to measure!  I guess that the vineyard that
produces a wine that costs $50 bottle should offer the same 10X guarantee
if the purchaser can't tell it from Ripple.  I suppose we should ignore
the empirical evidence that different wine judges tend to produce like
ratings (a similar state of affairs exists in high-end audio).  There is a 
word for those who assume all that is known is all that will ever be known: 
hubris.  If you can't tell the difference between Ripple and a fine
Auslese, then fine, buy the Ripple.  But to state that others can't tell 
the difference is supreme arrogance.

-- 
Seth J. Bradley, Senior System Administrator, Intel SCIC
Internet: sbradley@scic.intel.com   UUCP: uunet!scic.intel.com!sbradley
----------------------------------------
"A system admin's life is a sorry one.  The only advantage he has over
Emergency Room doctors is that malpractice suits are rare.  On the other
hand, ER doctors never have to deal with patients installing new versions
of their own innards!"  -Michael O'Brien
From: lstein@adobe.com (Larry Stein)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: FOR SALE: Portable Tape Equipment
Date: 11 Sep 92 22:38:08 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Adobe Systems


**NOTE**  Do not contact me about this equipment!!


FOR SALE

Sony WMD6B Professional Walkman (This only has Dolby B.  I had the
   WMD6C with Dolby B and C and the sound wasn't as good as the D6B)

Nakamichi 700 microphones with both omni and cardioid tips.  These
mikes have been cut down for stealth taping.

Custom built outboard microphone battery supply

Custom built outboard preamp with power supply

      The mike battery supply and outboard preamp are attached
      to the tape deck

BNC connectors with spares

several spare rechargeable battery packs for the Walkman

This equipment was used only for live taping and for mastering
those tapes.  On the average, 6-8 shows a year were taped on
this equipment.

PRICE:  $950

OR

The outboard preamp and mike battery supply are available together
for $150.


Call Carl at either (415) 648-2908 (San Francisco) or (916) 238-8028
                                                          (Redding CA)

Again, do not email me about this.  Thanks.
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: eacj@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Julian Vrieslander)
Subject: Re: Ground Loops
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 03:13:11 GMT

If the hum problem is due to ground currents coming through the CATV
feed, there is at least one product designed specifically to cure it: this
is the isolation device marketed by Mondial.  It is called "MAGIC" which is
an acronym for something, and it is simply an RC isolation network.  The
thing is expensive (about $70 at high end audio shoppes) but well made,
with surface mount components in a shielded box.  Mondial claims that it
also provides a degree of protection against lightning strikes, although
my guess is that a direct hit on your antenna cancels both the warranty and
your audio/video system.
-- 
Julian Vrieslander 
Neurobiology & Behavior, Mudd Hall, Cornell University, Ithaca NY 14853    
INTERNET: eacj@theory.tc.cornell.edu     BITNET: eacj@crnlthry
UUCP: ..cornell!batcomputer!eacj
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: mark@cyantic.com (Mark T. Dornfeld)
Subject: Bose 501 Series II Specifications
Organization: CYANTIC Systems
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 13:51:39 GMT

I have had a pair of BOSE 501 Series II speakers for 18 years and have saved
every piece of paper that came with them.  To my great surprise last week,
when I looked for the specifications of the speaker, they were nowhere to
be found among the documentation for the 501's.

Can anyone out there supply me with the vital statistics of the 501's?

Thanks
-- 

Mark T. Dornfeld                              Voice: (416) 234-9048
CYANTIC Systems                               Facsimile: (416) 234-0477
101 Subway Crescent Suite 2103                Email: mark@cyantic.com
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Q: Where are MD GIFs & Specs
From: david@ccc.govt.nz
Date: 16 Sep 92 13:32:10 NZDT
Organization: Christchurch City Council, New Zealand.

Does anyone have any GIFs of a MD and/or player?

What are the specifications of the MiniDisc?

David "david@ccc.govt.nz"
From: lancer@oconnor.WPI.EDU (Stephe Lewis Foskett)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Kenwood system control pinouts question
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:00:04
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: oconnor.wpi.edu


I just bought a used Kenwood casette deck to go with the rest of my Kenwood
system.  Now, the system control works just fine over the 1/8th inch stereo
plugs (their current system), but the deck also has _two_ other system
control jacks.  These are presumably from an older system.  There is what
looks like an RCA plug and an IBM keyboard-style 5-pin connector.  Does anyone
know anything about these?  Or system control in general?  I'm just curious
how it communicates (in all three systems) and what advantage the new
system (or perhaps the old system) offered.

Thanks,

.s.
--
- so spake lancer@wpi.wpi.edu -                  - from my city: -
-                                                                -
-  City of  -          Obedience to Law         -    Worcester   -
-  Police   -             is Liberty            -  Headquarters  -
From: wayne@ultra.com (Wayne Hathaway)
Subject: How do you audition surround speakers?
Reply-To: wayne@ultra.com (Wayne Hathaway)
Organization: Ultra Network Technologies
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 22:50:15 GMT

I have what may be a really dumb question, but could someone tell me
exactly how to go about auditioning surround sound speakers?  I mean,
it is relatively straightforward to audition mains: pick an amp that
is close to your own, put on your favorite music, and do a bunch of
A/B comparisons.

But this seems a lot harder to do with the other speakers, due to
variations in room, layout, mains, etc, especially with the subtle
nature of center and rear sound.  For example, I know it is important
to have the center speaker match your mains -- but how do you TELL,
short of taking all of them home?  And rear speakers are supposed to
be nondirectional -- but how do you TEST this in a small listening
room?

Any and all hints appreciated!

    Wayne Hathaway               domain: wayne@Ultra.COM
    Ultra Network Technologies     uucp: ...!ames!ultra!wayne
    101 Daggett Drive             phone: 408-922-0100 x132
    San Jose, CA 95134           direct: Hey, you!
From: philg@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Philip Greenspun)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Focal Press books overpriced (Re: AES/EBU)
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:24:01 GMT
Reply-To: philg@martigny.ai.mit.edu
Organization: M.I.T. Artificial Intelligence Lab.
In-reply-to: jacob@max.cc.brandeis.edu's message of 7 Sep 92 06:58:50 GMT


In article <1992Sep7.065850.29923@news.cs.brandeis.edu> jacob@max.cc.brandeis.edu ( ) writes:

   Why is it that (some?) Focal Press books are so wildly overpriced?

   I don't know about this one, but there's 400 p. paperback on recording
   ("Introduction to Recording" or something like that) that's 60$ !!!!

Hey, Focal Press used to publish Swine Nutrition magazine too.  Do you
suppose that this was as popular as Time?  The fact of the matter is
that most Americans are apparently too lazy or too stupid to want to
understand digital audio.  They'd rather spend endless years reading
through conjectures in Audio, Absolute Sound, and Stereophile and
still be just as confused as when they started (rather than one
weekend with Watkinson, which would be enough for any reasonably
intelligent layman).  I have met the enemy and he is us.

   If the same goes for Watkinson's book, I'd suggest looking into one
   of Ken Pohlman's books.

Ken Pohlman is a nice guy, but he is not an electrical engineer as far
as I can recall (I think his education is in music and he teaches in a
music department).  I've seen his book and it really isn't appropriate
for anyone with any technical sophistication.

Another netter compared the price to the price of a good education.
Since you come from Brandeis, you are no doubt familiar with the price
of education.  Consider that tuition at the big private schools is now
about 1/2 the salary of an assistance professor.  That means 10
students could get together, and, for what they would have spent on
tuition, hire 5 PhD's full-time to tutor them semi-privately in the
comfort of their own homes.

The Justice Department's victory against MIT puts this into
perspective recently.  Let's look at our colleges, which have doubled
their administrative staffs in recent decades, before complaining
about Focal Press.

Philip Greenspun
MIT Department of EECS
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: fdm@WLV.IIPO.GTEGSC.COM (Frank D. Malczewski)
Subject: Re: CD pricing
Keywords: Expensive
Organization: GTE Government Systems
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 19:24:43 GMT

In article <25792@castle.ed.ac.uk> mjo@castle.ed.ac.uk (M J O Clark) writes:
>If I were you, I would not complain about the phenomenal price of CDs
>($15...)
>
>I have been paying on average stirling #12 (~$24) for a few years, and
>would just LOVE to find a CD priced at stirling #7........:-)

Yeah, but considering that you all pay #5-#6 for a $4-$5 Burger King meal,
I don't think your CD prices are really all that out of line.  It's just
the exchange rate between the pound and the dollar is way out of line.


-- 

Frank Malczewski		(fdm@wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: case@infonode.ingr.com (Bill Case)
Subject: Re: Very expensive cables
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:06:56 GMT

In article <7490222@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> myers@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Myers) writes:
>> Do expensive cables really make a difference?
>
>No...<text deleted>.....  Claims of magical
>qualities of various cables are simply so many snake-oil sales pitches.
>
Snakes aside,  the magical may be bunk,  but I would believe that you
can make a cable  that sounds different,  and then market the difference
as somehow "Better".

>
>> Are these expensive cables just a way for manufacturers to make more money
>> out of their gullible customers?
>
>Absolutely.  If you want to hear something badly enough - and believe me,
>after you've spent $300/meter for a hunk of fairly ordinary copper, you
>*want* to hear - you *will* hear it.  But the oft-maligned (at least, 'round
>these hyar parts) double-blind tests have so far failed to show any
>significant difference, nor has there been any theoretical reasoning
>presented to show why there *should* be a difference.

Hmm, I was gullible and bought a used five-foot pair of oft-ballyhooed
Straightwire Maestro speaker cable.  They were big, beautiful,  expensive, 
and highly recommended,  sorta like a good (double?)blind date :-)  I thought
they sounded worse than the no-name crap I had.  I shoulda turned out
the lights and had a hooded stranger install (or not install) the
Maestro's to make them at least as good.

Bill "Bumpkin" Case
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: gat21241@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Gregory A. Tabor)
Subject: Re: Mail Order NAD
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 00:32:39 GMT

simonh@amtfocus.amt.gss.mot.com () writes:

> Does anybody know a reputable mail-order place sells NAD/Nakimichi stuff? 
> Also what's NAD's 1-800 number? 

In response to the second question above (sorry, but I can't help you
with the first), here is the address/phone# for NAD:

     Lenbrook Industries Limited
     633 Granite Court, Pickering, Ontario, Canada L1W 3K1
     1-800-263-4641

- Greg Tabor