From: gst@spdcc.com (Gary S. Trujillo)
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.native
Subject: Indigenous Peoples' newsgroup proposal
Date: 13 Dec 92 20:02:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec13.200208.22690
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting

A note primarily for alt.native readers:

A number of people have entered into a discussion around the question of
how to propose a new newsgroup devoted either to a discussion of issues
relating to the indigenous peoples of the Americas, as well as information
pertaining to those peoples, or more generally to the indigenous peoples
of the world.  This new newsgroup, if approved by a vote, would have a
much wider distribution than alt.native, since it would be in the "main-
stream hierarchy" ("soc.culture").  Thus, it could be expected to be more
useful and to carry a higher volume of traffic than alt.native.  There was
a proposal nearly a year ago to create a newsgroup dealing only with the
subject of American Indians, but the proposal was defeated in a close vote.

For those just joining this discussion, the question before us is how to
name one or more newsgroups which have been proposed for creation.  A
number of people have indicated their support of creating a new hierarchy
called "soc.culture.native" which could be used either as a newsgroup unto
itself until there is sufficient traffic and support for the creation of
newsgroups under it, like "soc.culture.native.american."  Others feel it
would be best to create "soc.culture.native.american" initially, though it
means bringing into being "soc.culture.native" only as a place to "hang"
the newsgroup "american."  Yet others like the idea of a hyphenated name,
like "soc.culture.native-america(n)."  Tim Pierce (to whom this article
responds) has proposed a reversed name, "soc.culture.american.native," and
others, as needed (like "soc.culture.australian.native").  I am strongly
opposed to this suggestion, for reasons set out below and in my previous
articles on this subject.  (My own preference is for "soc.culture.native.")

I ask that readers of alt.native join in to this discussion, to help give
balance to a discussion which has so far taken place mainly among people
reading this series of articles in news.groups, which is mainly peopled by
systems administrators, who are generally more concerned with the topography
of "Usenet namespace" than they are with the content of some particular news-
group which has been proposed.

Thanks.

In article <Bz7ILr.EoG@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu
	(Tim Pierce) writes:

> The issue is whether soc.culture.native.alaskan would have more in
> common with soc.culture.alaskan or soc.culture.native.  (True,
> soc.culture.alaskan doesn't exist, but alt.culture.alaskan does, and I
> think my point holds.)

Tim has still not addressed the point that creating a "native" in each of
many newsgroup hierarchies (soc.culture.american, soc.culture.australian,
soc.culture.alaskan, soc.culture.indonesian, etc.) has the effect of asso-
ciating indigenous peoples with larger culture which has little to do with
their own.  To the extent that a people has not assimilated into the culture
of the people who have expropriated their traditional homelands, it has a
claim to an independent identity, and thus a right to claim a newsgroup
hierarchy which expresses the fact that aboriginal cultures often have more
in common with one another in the most important ways than they do with the
cultures of the "mainstream" (usually European-derived) societies created
by the people who have done such damage to their own way of life.

The effect of Tim's suggestion, I submit, would be to continue the cul-
tural submersion which has been one of the most serious obstacles to First
Peoples' societies from gaining a strong sense of cultural identity, and
of having important connections with the societies of other First Peoples.

The impetus for this proposal comes from people who are interested primarily
in talking about various societies of indigenous peoples, American Indians
being one.  I feel we should be looking at the larger context of the question
by considering the effect of the name on the nature and character of the
discussion and information interchange carried in the new newsgroup.  Unless
the political reality of the marginalization of societies of Native Peoples
is taken into account, I feel we cannot make a wise decision on how to name
the new newsgroup(s).

Thanks to all those who have been taking part in this discussion, and to
those from alt.native who I hope will soon be entering into it.

Respectfully,

Gary
-- 
    Gary S. Trujillo                             gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us
Somerville, Massachusetts               {wjh12,bu.edu,spdcc,ima,cdp}!gnosys!gst
Newsgroups: news.groups