HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Autopsy - Kahane and Rosenbaum
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:26:59 GMT

In article <dfs.724521509@kehleyr> dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:

# In <1992Dec16.000224.18252@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake
# Livni) writes:
 
# >You compare Kahane to Assad, Saddam and Arafat and then you accuse ME
# >of stirring??!!
 
# Jake, let's get this straight once and for all: YOU brought up the
# comparison, not me.  And my response to YOUR raising of the issue was
# that Kahane's policies have similarities to those of Muslim
# Fundamentalists.

	You did not get it straight.  What Jake brought up was that there
can be NO comparison.  It was you that raised the issue, and your
response about similarities is nothing less than insulting.

# >Did Kahane ever propose the holding of Arab communities as hostages
# >for political means as Assad has done with his Jewish community?
 
# No, he just proposed kicking them out or stripping them of civil
# rights.  He magnanimously gave them the choice between the two.

	That is of course not totally correct, but given your previous
standards with respect to being accurrate when describing Kach is is
refreshing.  However, it is still not the same thing.  To say that it
is (or that it is even close) is insulting.

# >Did Kahane ever promise the Mother of All Battles to destroy the
# >enemy and to scorch the Arab land they live on?
 
# He never gained power.  Remember, power corrupts... while Saddam was a
# nobody, he also didn't go around threatening people.  He bided his time.

	So how can you than make the comparison?!

# >Did Kahane ever state that he would "pump 10 bullets into the chest"
# >of anyone who disobeyed him?
 
# He never gained power.
 
	What does that have to do with it?  How can you make that
comparison?!

	Perhaps we should start making comparisons between you and Hitler.
After all, you never gained power.

# >While I certainly wasn't any follower of Meir Kahane, I find your 
# >demonization of him disgusting and unwarranted.
 
# Fine, you're entitled to your opinion.  I don't demonize Kahane; I just
# state the fact that his policies are (1) racist and (2) extremely dangerous
# to the survival of Israel.

	Well you are entitled to your wrong opinion, but do not call them
facts.  To do show either shows you are ignorant or a liar.

# [...]
 
# >Do you still feel that 3-4 years mandatory military service is "not
# >really" extraordinary?
 
# For North Americans, sure it is.  But many other countries have quite
# long periods of conscription.  Sure, Israel's situation is dangerous.
# But how does that justify Kahane's policies, which will only make it
# much more dangerous?

	It does not justify his policies (which need no justtification).
However, it does go to show how dangerous the situation really is.
And it does not even consider the required reserve duty.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
From: aplebaum@irs01.cs.huji.ac.il (Hillel Applebaum)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Holiday wishes for us
Date: 17 Dec 92 13:02:40 GMT
Organization: The Hebrew U. of Jerusalem, Computer Science Dep.
NNTP-Posting-Host: irs01.cs.huji.ac.il

In article <1992Dec16.170600.27512@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, jweber@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (jodi.weber) writes:
|> 
|> I had a rather interesting experience this morning.  A colleague of mine
|> and I were talking about the holidays, and the religious vs. secular
|> value placed on each.  He is born-again Xian, so he naturally regards
|> Xmas as the most important and wonderful holiday of the year, and I,
|> meanwhile, told him how fun but relatively minor Hannukah was.  He stated
|> that he knew it seemed to hold more importance because it falls somewhere
|> near Xmas, which I confirmed.
[rest - deleted]

Not here. And our CHANUKA is the same as in any O-jewish home (I don't
know about C or R, might be the same , might not) in the US. So I don't
think it has any thing to do with there days (YOM IDAM).



In article <1992Dec16.175620.15381@midway.uchicago.edu>,
chappell@willy.uchicago.edu (Chappell) writes:
[sd - about some Xien holiday ]
|> All the schlock is offensive enough to me, but I think that if I were a
|> religious Christian like she it would be worse.
|> 
|> "Come on down for our big Pesach sale!  Buy all your seder decorations
|>  while the kids sit in Moses' lap!"

It doesn't sound right to you ? come to Israel ...
"Buy for 300 nis and get a box of MATZOT - FREE !!!"
"buy now for CHANUKA - pay after PESACH !!!"
"the big PURIM sale, shows for the kids in the center of the mall ..."
etc.....


Thank God I live in Israel. And all those who suffer from this time
of year - come here (atleast for that time).
-- 

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-*-*- 
/ Hillel P. Applebaum     |> ISRAEL - where all		Better    the   Golan 
/ Jerusalem,   Israel     |  jews should live !		then peace without it.
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-*-*- 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: SCJ HAS BEEN DECONTAMINATED!
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:22:26 GMT

jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg) writes:
> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay) writes:

> >If the world followed "ayin tachit ayin", the world would be a
> >lot better off, IMHO.
>   Not to mention tachat tachit tachat.

Is that the same as "turn the other cheek"?

-Don Gertler
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Is Failure to Support Pollard Anti-Semitic?
Date: 13 Dec 92 15:14:41 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)

In article <1992Dec13.055949.24485@netcom.com>, strnlght@netcom (David Sternlight) writes:
>Yes, he heard me correctly. Anyone who raises a charge of dual loyalty
>when the issue is equal justice under the law, is a racist.

"Dual loyalty" is not a myth.  It exists.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Shabbat question
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 22:00:55 GMT

In article <101835@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>In article <1992Dec11.162040.9056@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>, jgoldber@todah (Joel Goldberg) writes:
>>  More precisely, the prohibition against  a bicycle is that if it
>>breaks down, one might be tempted to either carry it or fix it. If
>>a wheelchair breaks down, the same temptations (and they are stronger
>>ones even) hold too.
>But the usual riders are often not in a position to carry it or to make
>the repairs.
  The are also usually accompanied by people who are. definitely for
infants, depending on the disability, for wheelchair bound people too.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
From: srm@world.std.com (Stevens R Miller)
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 15:35:13 GMT

jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:

>In article <1992Dec4.222026.3727@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
>>
>>I won't comment on this.  okay, I will.  What would *you* have us do?
>>Throw out trial by jury?  Eliminate innocent until proven guilty?  

>How about having criminals who are acquitted by
>manipulated/terrorized/biased/bought-off/racist/stupid 
>juries getting re-tried?

Since you concluded that Nelson's jury was biased/racist/stupid
because they acquitted him, I presume you would conclude that of
all juries that would acquit him on re-trials.  So, under the
system you propose, Nelson would be re-tried repeatedly,
until convicted.

I used to believe you merely preferred "guilty until proven innocent"
to our law of "innocent until proven guilty."  Now I see you really
just prefer "guilty" (or is that, "guilty if Jake says so?").
-- 
Stevens R. Miller J.D.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp)
Subject: Re: To all Jews: STOP the negative Jewish
Organization: LA&W RR
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 00:44:57 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.231614.11908@netcom.com> madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann) writes:
>CPLS13@email.mot.com (Steven_Cohn) writes: >
>yaffe@icd.teradyne.com (Art Yaffe) wrote: >>
>emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout) writes: >> >
>madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann) writes: >> >>
>>> >
>>> >>   Jews like to argue
>>> >
>>> >They do not!
>>> 
>>> Do SO!
>>
>>DO NOT!
>
>This isn't an argument!  It's just contradiction!
>
>IS NOT!
>
>It is so!  An argument is a carefully reasoned
>series of propositions leading to a conclusion!
>
>IS NOT!
>
>It most certainly is!  It isn't the simple gainsaying
>of any statment with "No, it isn't!"
>
>YES IT IS!
>
>
This is only Jewish if it was written by the late Graham Chapman.  John
Cleese and Michael Palin are both goy, as opposed to Chapman who was
gay.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: seth@inst-sun1.tmc.edu (Seth Chazanoff)
Subject: Re: atonement thru death of righteous person
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA, USA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:03:12 GMT

>In article <1gaoa6INNlj0@coral.bucknell.edu>  writes:
>>
>>is it a valid JEWISH concept that the death of a righteous person will
>>expiate the sins of an entire generation,and if so,where does scripture
>>affirm such aprinciple

>The closest you get to this in Judaism is in using ancestor's names
>while praying to add weight to your own words.  But it isn't their
>deaths that have any affect, rather their greatness while they are
>alive.

I disagree, I believe that the closest you get to this is when an unintentional
man-killer is not to be punished by the 'Avenger of the Blood' after the death 
of the Cohen Gadol.  This is obviously not the same as our "friends" want us
to believe, but I can see where they might extrapalate to it.

>God will more likely redeem a generation whose great people remain
>alive to teach the masses than one whose great people simply die.

I agree

>-- 
>  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
> /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
>((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses

			Seth
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller)
Subject: Re: Messianic Judiasm
Organization: AL/HRTI, Brooks AFB
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:53:01 GMT

On 15 Dec 92 17:09:32 GMT, johnson@itzb.com said:

 > It used to be inconceivable that a Jew would
 > break Shabbos.  Now 3 movements support it.

	Who said they were right?

 > It used to be inconceivable that a Jew would
 > intermary.  Now one movement (or is it two?)
 > supports it.

	Who said they were right?

 > It used to be inconceivable that a Jew would
 > eat food cooked in non-Kosher utensils.  Now
 > three movements support it.

	Who said they were right?

 > It used to be inconceivable that a Jew would
 > daven in a shul without a mehitza.  Now three
 > movements support it.

	Who said they were right?

 > It used to be inconceivable that a Jew would
 > support homosexuality.  Now no movements
 > support it but theyre on their way.

	Why point this out?

 > It is still inconceivable to most that a Jew
 > would believe in [Jesus Christ].  But
 > youve decided that anything else goes, and so
 > will this soon.  Give it a few more years and
 > we'll be Jews just like the rest of you!

	Not in my book.  And I don't think I could find it within me to
daven with you either.  

	An interesting admission, though, as he himself implies that he
is *not* a Jew.

 > A true blue Messianic Jew

	Don't ever expect to enter my house.

-- Cerebus <tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil>
"And if I ever catch you talking to my [future] children, I'll beat you
 senseless."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp)
Subject: Re: Messianic Judaism
Organization: LA&W RR
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 21:24:32 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.020441.15744@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:

>God did while Moses was in charge?  Like parting the Reed Sea, turning
>Egypt's water into blood, slaying all of Egypt's first born, guiding

Give me a bulldozer and I'll part the Reed Sea too.  =B^)


>Let's see your deity top that list.

Uh, since Christians believe that Jesus is G-d, they believe He did
those things as well as the Miracles listed in the "New" Testament.

I can appreciate your not wanting missionizing posts in s.c.j., I can
understand your not accepting Christianity, but any postings which
espouse incorrect info about Christianity will tend to even bring the
lurkers out of the woodwork.
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jews, Cincinatti, and the KKK
Date: 13 Dec 92 13:21:16
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
	<merlyn.724218392@digibd> <emc.724268543@ro>
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: emc@doe.carleton.ca's message of Sun, 13 Dec 1992 17:42:23 GMT

Whatever the issues of Canadian or German law, none of this makes sense
with regards American law.

In article <emc.724268543@ro> emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout) writes:

   Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Path: think.com!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!torn!nott!cunews!emc
   From: emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout)
   Sender: news@cunews.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
   Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
   References: <emc.724117834@vash> <merlyn.724127301@digibd> <emc.724212560@vash> <merlyn.724218392@digibd>
   Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 17:42:23 GMT
   Lines: 34

   >They wanted to put a cross up along with Jewish symbols; the state
   >can't arbitrarily decide that one group can present religious symbols
   >and another cannot.  If any are allowed, all must be allowed.  In the
   >US, you can't lose your rights for having unpopular or offensive political
   >views.

   Yes, I understand your argument.  I just don't see it as a blanket 
   statement.  If the state is not allowed to decide what constitutes
   racism, then you have no law.  In Canada at least, there is
   legitimate ground for prosecution of incitement to racism or hatered.

But not in the US.  I don't remember the exact standard (I'm not a
lawyer), but there must be an incitement to immediate action; fomenting
hatred alone is not illegal.  Similarly, membership in an organization
is not illegal (that was last tried during the McCarthy era); to be
convicted of a crime, it must be shown that an individual committed a
specific criminal act.

   Besides, the KKK has not registered, as far as I know as a legitimate
   party, or as a religion.

Irrelevant.  Registration as a political party is for electoral purposes
(and as regards that, the KKK has put up candidates for election; when I
lived in Houston I remember seeing that the KKK had sponsored a mayoral
candidate whose qualifications included "White Christian").  There is no
registry for religions either; religions do claim tax-exempt status
(which I think is a bad thing for various reasons), but other than that
religions do not have official status of any kind in the US.
			     
			     I don't see the possibility of the German
   government for instance allowing a neo-nazi group setting up one of
   their symbols in the central square, at the request of city hall.

The discussion was in regards the US.

   The  argument for freedom of speech can not entitle racist manifestations.
   That is not the same as saying objectionable speech should not be
   legislated against.  

In the US, this is untrue.  Racist speech is perfectly legal.  Actions
are a different story.  Yes, there are cases in which speech can become
action (threats against an individual, harrassment of an individual),
but a member of the KKK who wished to speak on public land would be
accorded the same rights as anyone else.
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write lpf@uunet.uu.net
From: betsys@cs.umb.edu (Elizabeth Schwartz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Why are Jews discriminated?
Date: 17 Dec 92 20:47:53 GMT
	<1992Dec13.015002.6293@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
	<Uf=0VWi00iV144eZNM@andrew.cmu.edu>
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston

In article <Uf=0VWi00iV144eZNM@andrew.cmu.edu> wt0i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Wendy Elizabeth Tuggle) writes:
>does it help to point out that there are non-white jews?
>jewishness is not a race...
>-wendy
Sure! 
  It helps to get others to understand that Jewishness is not a race
  It helps us to know and understand each other
  It includes our brothers and sisters from other parts of the world.

How on earth could it hurt? If a Jew is uncomfortable knowing that
there are Jews of other colors and cultures, that person might want to
do a little soul-searching. 
--
System Administrator                  Internet: betsys@cs.umb.edu
MACS Dept, UMass/Boston               BITNET:ESCHWARTZ%UMBSKY.DNET@NS.UMB.EDU
100 Morrissey Blvd                    Staccato signals
Boston, MA 02125-3393                      of constant information....
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: wc4209@writer.yorku.ca (Irene Berkovich)
Subject: Re: Vijay's Genuine Apology
Organization: Computer Assisted Writing Centre, York University, Toronto, Canada
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:08:26 GMT

In article <9212162053.AA07001@hrt213.brooks.af.mil> tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller) writes:
>On Wed, 16 Dec 92 18:11:24 GMT, er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld) said:
>
> > In article <1992Dec16.163129.24073@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk>, ucakrvb@ucl.ac.uk (Vijay Bhuchar) writes:
>
> > |> * What is Messianic Judaism? * I showed you the Daniel 9 
> > |> prophecy which is winning the Orthodox over in their 100's.
>
> > Sure, wait till they're old and frail and *then* snatch them up!  You won't
> > find it so easy to trap *younger* Jews, like those who are only 80 or 90!
>
>	Assuming you're joking, I have to point out that they really
>*do* use this kind of tactic.
>
>	Assuming you're not, it's sad, isn't it?
>
>-- Cerebus <tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil>
>"Pitiful.  Angering."

You are absolutely right.  In Toronto last year a nursing home with a
majority  Jewish clientele (unwittingly) hired a Jews for Jesus pastor
to tend to the residents' religious needs.

After finding out about this 'gentleman's' real agenda, they wiped the
egg off their face, and promptly fired the shit.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Re: Refuting Xian Missionaries (README)
Summary: Hit 'n' now (or you'll be sorry).
Organization: Jews for Melkor
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 01:10:47 GMT

In article <1ggfjvINNcnm@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman) writes:
>
>   I agree with every word of Gedeliah's post.

Me too, except for the part about the clams. Clams aren't kosher,
you know.
-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"We all have faults, and mine is being wicked."
                --- The Duke of Coffin Castle
From: merlyn@digibd.digibd.com (Merlyn LeRoy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jews, Cincinatti, and the KKK
Date: 12 Dec 92 02:28:21 GMT
Organization: DigiBoard, Incorporated, Eden Prairie,MN

emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout) writes:
>I was listening to the CBC last night where a Lubavitcher Rabbi
>from Cincinatti was discussing a situation that has developed in
>that city.

>It seems that for years, his synagogue has applied to put up a Menorah
>in the central square (Liberty Square?).  At the first application it
>looked like approval was imminent, until it came before  city council.
>It was refused on the basis of separation of Church and State.  When
>this was overturned by a court, they refused on the basis of safety 
>concerns.  When they could not uphold that, they claimed the slippery
>slope argument: "If we let you have a Menorah, every group will want
>to have something, including the KKK".  

>I don't understand how the Menorah was finally approved, but I understand
>that a white cross from the KKK will also go up with it in the same
>square, under the banner "freedom of speech".  It seems that city council
>made it look like there had been three application for crosses from different
>groups for a long time, when in fact there was only ever one group.

>The difference is, as the Rabbi pointed out, and as many are aware, that
>there is freedom of speech in America, but yet there is a law against calling
>"Fire!" in a theatre.  This clearly racist group should not be allowed
>to post their symbol of racism (even though the cross may mean something 
>completely different to denominational Christians). 

Sorry, I can't agree with this sort of reasoning.  If you're going to allow
religious symbols on public property in the US, the government can't decide
whose religions are legitimate and whose aren't.  They'll have to allow
religious symbols from Satanists, too, if any apply.  Racist speech is
still protected speech; it doesn't matter if it's popular or not.

---
Merlyn LeRoy
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dkhaikin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dmitry Khaikin)
Subject: Re: Vijay's Genuine Apology
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 05:35:05 GMT

In article <92351.1218242893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> Andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>In article <1992Dec16.163129.24073@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk>, ucakrvb@ucl.ac.uk (Vijay
>Bhuchar) says:
>>
>>I just wanted to apologize for posting Messianic
>>literature in SCJ.
>>
>>I will continue over in the correct forum which is
>>alt.messianic and hope that I continue to receive as
>>much mail as I did although hopefully from those of you
>>who want genuine dialogue on the topic.
>>
>>My first article was in a response to a question
>>* What is Messianic Judaism? * I showed you the Daniel 9
>>prophecy which is winning the Orthodox over in their 100's.
>>
>>My follow ups were in response either to news items or e-mail
>>(i.e. you said there was no crucifixion prophecy and I showed it
>>to you etc. etc)
>>
>>I will get round to sending e-mail enquirers a standard reply soon
>>
>>Follow me on alt.messianic and I will show you other proofs of
>>Messiahship of Jeez and I will at some point answer the question
>>* Why do Christians evangelize Jews? *
>>
>>Believe me you think you know the answer but you dont.
>>Its got something to do with an unfulfilled prophecy
>>Zecheriah 13:8-9.
>>
>>See you on a.m hopefully
>>
>>Vijay
>
>In your dreams!

And I bet that's all his believes are based on! Well, as usual!

Thanks,
Dima
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.
  "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah."____ The Zohar.
  dkhaikin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  ( Dmitry Khaikin, Columbus Ohio )
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.
  "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah."____ The Zohar.
  dkhaikin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  ( Dmitry Khaikin, Columbus Ohio )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish