From: isds11990012@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: It's True For You (LONG)
Date: 16 Nov 92 20:54:41 -0600
Organization: Memphis State University

In article <Bxrnvy.Ept.2@cs.cmu.edu>, lindsay+@cs.cmu.edu (Donald Lindsay) writes:
> 
> This newsgroup hears about "whole track" memories, that is, memories
> of previous lives. It also hears about out-of-body experiences,
> thetans, and similar material involving subjective evidence.
> Objective evidence is unavailable, and various Scientologists have
> made statements on this newsgroup indicating that it will remain
> unavailable.
> 
> [John Holifield - if I'm not in your kill file - could you try, while
> exteriorized, to learn a fact that wouldn't be known to your body?
> You seem honest: I'd like to hear your report.]
> 

    Don, this isn't really any big deal.  Yes, I could go exterior and
do something like this.  I've done it many times before with friends of mine.
I'm not trying to sound like I have these great magical powers or anything
like that.  All I've been trying to say is that Scientology provides a means
where you can find this out for yourself.  

    Last spring I wrote to this newsgroup and said that I had looked into 
the mailbox before opening it, and had been able to see the contents.
The anti-scientology camp really loved that, many people posted that I
must be on drugs, was delusional, was a compulsive liar, etc...

     It seems to me that the majority of the anti-scientology posters here
have no intention at all of finding out if scn has anything to offer.
Mostly they only intend to:

A.  Expose Scn as an incredible and dangerous hoax.  

B.  Have some fun taking pot shots at other peoples religious beliefs.

     Now, I haven't done any kind of tests that you might call scientific
or anything.  But, I have been able to experience and percieve space 
independent of my body on many occasions.  

     I already told you about the mailbox.  Here is another example:  I
was talking to my girlfriend on the phone one evening while she was studying.
I went exterior and went in to her house.  I could clearly percieve the
books and things that she was using to study.  I also knew what page she
was on, what the words on the page were, etc.  On one occasion, I even
knew what words she was reading at a particular instance.

     Another time I was walking to the parking lot from school.  I had
to walk by the music building, and as I went by, I noticed that the 
Suzuki violin class was having a performance inside the building.  I moved
my body into the building and waited for the performance to end.  It was
a really good performance by the way.  Anyway, when it was over, I left the
building and it had started to rain.  I thought I would just wait untill
the rain quit, and then I would cross the street to the parking lot.  I
noticed that a lady and her two kids were about to cross the street.
They didn't have an umbrella, and I knew they would get wet.  I decided to
change my considerations and do something about the rain, so that the
children and the lady wouldn't get wet.  The lady looked at me and asked,
"Are you waiting for it to stop raining?"  I made a Tone-40 postulate and
said, "No, it is waiting for me."  The rain stopped instantly and we all
crossed the street.  As soon as we were all in our cars, I allowed the 
rain to start again.

     I don't know if I could just do this everyday, but I caused this
to happen that day.  Some of that last paragraph was a little off the 
subject, but I was able to know that the violin class was performing and
there is no way my body could have found that out from outside the building.

     I don't expect you to believe it, because I'm not interested in
prooving anything.  You can proove it to your self, and if you can't I
won't say a word.  If you won't, I don't think you are really interested
in knowing.

> I understand that some auditing sessions involve relaxation
> techniques, and hence are related to hypnotism. [I'd appreciate input
> on this point.] I know that Hubbard studied hypnotism and
> self-hypnotism in the 1940's.
>

     None that I am aware of involve relaxation techniques.  They
do involve being comfortable, so that you can go through the process
without being distracted.  If you can be more specific about which
sessions or techniques, I might be better able to help you.  

     On second thought, I guess Book One auditing might resemble a
relaxation technique.  If you have DMSMH read what LRH has to say about
Dianetic Reverie as compared to Hypnotism.  I suspect that this is
probably what you're talking about.  To clarify a point, very little of
the auditing done on a PC is done as described in DMSMH.  I can see
how you might confuse this with hypnotism or something like that.  If
book one auditing was done without following the auditor's code strictly
it would probably seem very similar to the stories you posted.

     I see your point about how they can appear similar, but sloppily
done Book One and Scientology Standard Tech are two very different
animals.
 
> Hmm. Relaxation. Hypnotism. Memories and perceptual effects. Wait,
> haven't I heard something about that, recently?
> 

     You probably have heard someting about that.  The experiences, I
am talking about occur while fully awake and aware.  No meditaion, or
relaxation/hypnotism is involved.  My experience with exteriorization
has been that it is more fun to go exterior while you are doing 
something.  It makes playing basketball much more fun!

> What follows is kinda long, and I'm sorry about that. You might
> prefer to skim it. The meat, to me, is the clear evidence that
> hypnotism can *cause* false UFO-abduction memories, and that
> hypnotism can *cause* false Satanic-ritual memories. [What the UFO
> people said about the Satanic memories, and vice versa, is also
> richly funny.] 
>

   I agree.
 
> SO. I guess my question is, how are Thetans and whole-track memories
> different from Satanic rituals and UFO abductions?
> 

   Scientology isn't hypnotism.

   I think the difference is in the method that people use to "recover"
the memories.   The incidents that you posted all involve hypnotism or
relazation techniques.  This isn't how Scientology works.  A Scn PC
is fully awake and simply answers questions in the auditing session.
Auditors don't tell the PC to remember UFO abductions, they don't hint
that it could have happened or anything else.  What I'm saying is that,
Scn auditing doesn't suggest these things to you.  If they come up in
the session, it gets handled.  You take responsibility for it.  There is
no need to go on a TV talkshow or hash it out in a therapy group.

   I read your entire post, and I even saw a few of those shows on TV
recently.  The shows I watched had some very seriously disturbed people
on it.  They were in grief, they could barely confront, they had bad 
relationships with a family member, etc.   These aren't the kind of people
I would compare to Scientologists.

   Personally I have memories of past lives.  Some are real, some I'm not
sure about.  Mostly, Scientologists are more interested in how we are doing
right now.  We want to improve conditions as they exist, rather than blame
all our troubles on that time we were molested by satanic aliens when we
were four.

    If they actually were abused by satanists, or molested by aliens Then
they should stop screwing around with hypnotism and those stupid support
groups.  When they go on TV and talk about how after years of therapy they
have discovered that they are screwed up because of satanic aliens I'm
personally inclined to disbelieve it.  If they knew the real reason why,
it wouldn't be a problem anymore would it?  

    The people I have met and seen on TV who make claims of Satanic Abuse
or Alien Abduction often come from very disturbed families, use drugs, etc.
They have problems.  Its obvious that whatever type of therapy they are
currently using isn't working.  Its obvious because they Still Have the
Problem!  If the therapy worked, why are they still screwed up?

    I guess the main point of difference is that the real WHY allows the
situation to be handled (As-ised).  Not finding the real WHY (avoiding
as-isness) causes the condition or problem to persist.

    In Scientology, we just ask the PC if the problem is handled, and if
the PC is VGIs (Very Good Indicators--he feels good about it) and its no
longer a problem to him, then great-- we can go on to something else that
he would like to improve.  He knows that its handled, and he doesn't need
more therapy sessions to help him cope with it or anything else.  He's 
not even interested in it anymore.  Nobody has to tell him that this
happened, or that didn't happen because he knows for himself what happened,
he has confronted it fully, and its no longer a problem to him.

-ARC,
John Holifield
ps.  Everyone is a Scientologist, some just haven't cognited yet!!

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology