HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sheldon@iastate.edu (Steve Sheldon)
Subject: RFD: Moderating misc.jobs.* (was Re: RFD: reorganization of misc.jobs and similar
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:56:04 GMT

In <104650@netnews.upenn.edu> rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec) writes:

>In article <1993Jan12.182116.9646@ncar.ucar.edu> ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes:
>>IMHO the only way to rescue misc.jobs.offered[.*] is to moderate it.  Now.

>And here Ilana hits the nail squarely on the head.  Despite numerous
>polite (and impolite) requests for posters to follow simple and useful
>conventions such as putting the geographic location, job title and other
>highly pertinent information on the "Subject" line, it's still necessary
>to read the body of most articles before even finding out the "who, what,
>where" for each position.  The overwhelming number of articles from
>headhunters, the occasional multilevel marketing scams, and the repetitive
>nature of some postings all contribute to the confusion.  We need
>to moderate this group, because it seems the only way to enforce
>the simple (and highly useful) conventions for its use.


 I've been following misc.jobs.offered.entry since it's beginnings.  As
someone posted earlier, it does not receive a lot of traffic, maybe 50
messages a month.

 A good deal of the traffic does not belong.  Especially in the last month,
where we have a total of maybe 6 job offers, 4 of which have been
multi-level marketing scams(Amway and others).

 The rest of the traffic that appears has been:

 "I want a job"
 "Hey that message said they want experience!"
 "Stop posting that trash in here."
 etc...

 Moderating this group would certainly seem to be an easy task, considering
the low volume of traffic.  Maybe 6 valid messages a month right now.
-- 
sheldon@iastate.edu                Steve Sheldon
Project Vincent                    ICSS Resource Unit
SCO ODT, Arc/Info, Atlas GIS       2142 Agronomy Hall
                                   Iowa State University
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: christbj@ifi.uio.no (Christian Bj|rnerud)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.sys.mac.powerbook
Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 22:58:28 GMT
Originator: christbj@gyda.ifi.uio.no


I support a conference for powerbook users, but as mentioned in this group it
should not be for powerbooks exclusively. Users of Mac Portable and other
portable mac computers should be able to post to a such group. The name
c.s.m.powerbook may be too specific, but considering that the major part of
mac portables are powerbooks it is not totally unsuitable.

The name comp.sys.mac.laptop may be better, and - IMHO - there are enough 
differences to non-macintosh laptops to justify this.

My opinion is that we will be better served with a specific newsgroup 
for users of non-desktop macs.


Christian  8-)
From: greer@euphoria.xis.xerox.com (Greer Tan Swiston)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: reorganization of misc.jobs and similar groups
Date: 21 Jan 93 14:35:27 GMT
Organization: Xerox

>These proposals are independent.  Some can be approved without the others:
>1. Rename misc.jobs.misc misc.jobs.discussion to cut down on postings there
>	that belong in misc.jobs.wanted or misc.jobs.offered.

How enforcible will this be?  I don't go SEARCHING for job
discussions, but while perusing through misc.jobs ... when I encounter
a discussion worth responding to ... I do.  I suppose if people read
news groups in clumps like "rn misc.jobs.*" then the separation gives
more order and reduces clutter.

>2. Create new group misc.jobs.nonpermanent or misc.jobs.shortterm for 
>	temporary, co-op, summer, internship, etc., positions.  (Requests,
>	offerings, and discussion)  (I'm still unsure of the exact 
>	name.  "Temporary" has the wrong connotation.)

How about just co-op ... which I feel implies a universal
student-training program.  I realize many schools have structured
Co-op programs, but I have found that many companies seem to consider
hiring a student for "practical application of his/her field of study"
as hiring a co-op, which could be anything from being a part of a
summer job, internship or structured Co-op program.

>3. Split misc.jobs.offered.entry into misc.jobs.offered.entry.almost and
>	misc.jobs.offered.entry.newgrads to because of complaints by people
>	who felt that jobs requiring experience were de facto not entry level.

This is cutting it a bit thin, don't you think?

>4. Create new hierarchy misc.jobs.local.* and move all regional job groups
>	(aus.jobs, ne.jobs, ba.jobs, ca.jobs, can.jobs, ont.jobs, etc., etc.)
>	under it (e.g. make ne.jobs into misc.jobs.ne).  This may make it 
>	easier for people planning to move to find jobs in their 
>	destination area.

I DEFINITELY agree with this re-org.  I would make finding these job
listings so much easier!

>5. Replace misc.jobs.offered and comp.jobs.offered, with
>	misc.jobs.offered.computer and misc.jobs.offered.noncomputer.
>	This should help with the current problems of computer jobs
>	constituting most (but not all) postings to misc.jobs.offered
>	and computer offerings being located in two separate groups.

Sounds good.

>6. Replace bionet.jobs, comp.jobs, vmsnet.employment, biz.jobs.*, and 
>	similar groups, with misc.jobs.biology, misc.jobs.computer, 
>	misc.jobs.computer.VMS, misc.jobs.business.*, etc.

Yup ... same reasoning as proposal 4 ... I think this would structure
the bulletin board much better.

-- 
Greer Swiston, greer@xis.xerox.com   |DISCLAIMER:  ... the opinions 
Xerox Imaging Systems, Inc           |expressed could be mine or anybody's.
9 Centennial Drive                   |Does it matter?  It's just an
Peabody, MA 01960                    |opinion ...
From: geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: comp.sys.mac.powerbook
Date: 24 Jan 93 15:27:34 GMT
Reply-To: geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU
Organization: Amos Tuck School
Disclaimer: I don't represent Dartmouth and Dartmouth doesn't represent me.

In <1jpp3hINNdhp@stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu> kwun@css.itd.umich.edu (Michael Kwun) writes:

>: Why is comp.sys.laptop not
>: considered sufficient?

>..because the powerbook uses a mac OS
>because IBM compats don't use CPU, NPE, GUM or other PB specific utils
>because IBM compats don't have 160/180/dock video out
>because IBM compats use different batteries
>because IBM compats don't have revA/B keyboard concerns
>because IBM compat owners don't care that King Memory is the place to
>   go for duo memory

A quick look at comp.sys.laptop shows that it is not restricted to IBM
laptop computers or even DOS/Windows laptops.

Your list of topics  would cover Macintosh Portable and Outbound Notebook
Systems, would they be excluded from your ideal PowerBook group? If so, I
would vote no. If not, I would also vote no. In one case the name of the
group would be improper, in the other case the scope of the newsgroup
would be too narrow.

-Geoff
--
geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU - Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business
_____________________________________________________________________________
 Cerebus for Dictator in 1993!!    | "Responsibility is when someone can
     "Vote for me or else."        |  blame you if something goes wrong."
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.os.nt
Keywords: Microsoft Windows NT Win32
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 05:31:33 GMT

In article <8549@lib.tmc.edu> jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:

>In article <1993Jan26.120211.6093@pollux.lu.se> magnus@thep.lu.se (Magnus Olsson) writes:
>
>>Naming the group comp.os.ms-windows.nt would imply that Windows NT is
>>some sort of derivative of MS Windows, which it is NOT. We should try
>>to keep the namespace hierarchy meaningful.
>
>Fire up Windows NoT. Then tell me it isn't a derivative of MS Windows.

Rather than not being a derivative, it's not a subproduct.  The above
hierarchical scheme suggests that NT is some peculiar dialect of
MS-Windows -- seeing as how NT is an operating system whereas
MS-Windows is not, that hardly seems to be the case.  Give it a
parallel hierarchy.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: schultz@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Dennis Schultz)
Subject: RFD rec.boats.paddle
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:44:37 GMT

	I don't really give a damn about whether the group name includes
outdoor or not, but if you are going to change it, why don't you change it
to rec.(outdoor).whitewater or rec.(outdoor).river-running.  Either makes
much more sense than boats.paddle!
-dennis
Newsgroups: news.groups
Distribution: world
Subject: Re:  RFD: comp.os.nt
Followup-To: news.groups
Semder: news@atglab.atg.com (News system)
Organization: Aspen Technology Group
X-Mailer: UUPC/bsnews 2.1 modified


> This is a Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of:
> comp.os.nt (unmoderated)

>     Windows NT is an operating system that will be separated and
> different than either MS-DOS or Microsoft Windows. Currently the
> available news groups to discuss Windows NT are comp.os.ms-windows*,
> comp.os.msdos* and others. There is no central location to discuss
> issues relating to Windows NT.

I believe you have the key concept here -- NT is an operating system
that happens to have several APIs, one of which is WIN32.  One does
not write device drivers, installable file systems, disk compression
layers, or network sub-systems for WIN32; these are the domain of the
OS itself.

There should be a comp.os.nt hierarchy for NT, perhaps with sub-
groups for POSIX, WIN32, drivers, setup, hardware, etc.  The current
group (comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32) where all NT discussions,
including installation, setup, advocacy, etc, are occurring, should
be limited to programming issues with the WIN32s api.

The only link that I currently see between ms-windows and NT is the
WIN32s subset that allows programs to run at the lowest common
denominator of Win32 and NT.  Even if more NT features are added to
WIN32s, it will likely retain it's name.  Users should be able to
talk about win32s in either the ms-windows.programmer.win32 group
or in a comp.os.nt group.

>     First problem: the name. comp.os.nt is short and to the point,
> but maybe too short. 

"Everything should be as simple as possible, but not simpler." 
   - A. Einstein.

>     Third problem: comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32. Here is a
> group that already is discussing some topics relating to Windows. I
> obviously do not think this is sufficient.

If it were possible, I would rename it so that it only relates to
the win32s subset API (comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32s).  As I
argued above, as long as there is a "windows" product, the WIN32s
nomenclature will likely be retained.

Thanks for bringing up the RFD. One final point -- I think Alistair
Banks would prefer people think that NT == WIN32, rather than seeing
it as a platform for many products, including things like an X-server
under  POSIX, etc.  Microsoft's party line shouldn't keep NT tied to
ms-windows by newsgroup naming conventions!!

--
Jerome (Jerry) Schneider             Domain: jls@atg.COM 
Aspen Technology Group               UUCP:   {uunet}!csn!atglab!jls
PO Box 673, Ft. Collins, CO 80522    Voice:  (303) 484-1488


Newsgroups: news.groups
From: johnson@spectra.com (boyd johnson)
Subject: Re: RFD soc.religion.mormon -- PROPOSED CHARTER
Organization: Spectragraphics Corporation
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 01:11:19 GMT



In article <1jn215INN21l@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller) writes:
>In article <ANDRE.93Jan20161039@king.slc.mentorg.com>, andre@king.slc.mentorg.com (Andre' Hut) writes:
>> 
>> Since the last
>> attempt to create soc.religion.mormon was chartered to be
>> moderated, I suggest we try it un-moderated this time.  Also, by
>> leaving it un-moderated, it resolves the whole "censorship" issue,
>> and leaves up to each persons "agency" (Mormon term for "choice").
>
>
>Wrong, the last attempt was to make it unmoderated. This is why I voted
>against it last time and I will vote against it again if it is unmoderated.
>It is my belief that all of the soc.religion groups should be moderated and
>I will vote against those that are not.
>

Reminder that the last CFV was for a moderated group:

From: gritton@byu.edu (Jamie Gritton)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups
Subject: 3rd CFV and VOTE ACK:  soc.religion.mormon moderated
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:22:11 GMT

Newsgroup:   soc.religion.mormon

Status:      Moderated by Rawlin Blake at blake@nevada.edu

Description: Discussions regarding Mormons and Mormonism (Moderated)

Charter:     This news group is for the discussion of all things
             pertinent to Mormons and Mormonism. The following
             topics are unwelcome and run the risk of being
             rejected by the moderator:

             1. Flames and Flame wars.
             2. Posts that reveal or discuss the specific details
                of the Mormon Temple ceremony. Mormons hold the
                temple and what goes on inside sacred. Discussing
                its details shows either little understanding of,
                or no respect for Mormon beliefs. If you are not
                sure of the propriety of a post, submit it to the
                moderator with a note asking for guidance.
                Discussions about the temple in general are
                welcome.
             3. Topics not related to Mormonism.

...where to send votes, etc deleted

-- 
======== Boyd Johnson    nosc!spectra.com!johnson  San Diego, Ca. ========
From: stanley@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Proposed startrek split
Date: 21 Jan 1993 21:51:48 GMT
Organization: Coastal Imaging Lab, College of Oceanography
NNTP-Posting-Host: ruby.oce.orst.edu

In article <1jmt1vINNfkr@spud.Hyperion.COM> koreth@spud.Hyperion.COM (Steven Grimm) writes:
>I'm just saying that I'd
>like the option of reading the magazine article and not the letters to the
>editor without having to expend a lot of unnecessary effort.

Then tell your newsreader to kill everything but the reviews.

Newsgroups: news.groups
From: pierce@admiral.uucp (Clinton Pierce)
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: rec.arts.startrek.reviews moderated
Organization: The Admiral's Unix System & The Grid BBS
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:49:18 GMT
Summary: Against the creation of r.a.s.reviews

I've never participated in an RFD, so excuse me if I've just erred by posting 
here..

I'm against the split.  I think that the high volume in r.a.s.c. is due to the
fact that people aren't posting where they are supposed to in the first place.
Old episodes, discussions of O'Brien's rank, things for sale and transporter
questions all find their way to rasc.  When they really belong in 
misc, fandom, and tech, respectively.  

Reviews are inherently part of "current", to split them off would not serve
anybody.  I read current to find out what's coming up, how good
the episode is (reviews), discussion and critisism, and questions on things
I didn't understand in the episode.  Opening up a "reviews" area, even 
moderated, will drag the same discussion into two areas.

I urge anyone who reads this NOT to support the creation of RAS.reviews.
From: kwun@css.itd.umich.edu (Michael Kwun)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: comp.sys.mac.powerbook
Date: 23 Jan 93 20:04:25 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan ITD Consulting and Support Services
NNTP-Posting-Host: stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu

In article <C1A4zp.Inp@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>In article <1jpp3hINNdhp@stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu> kwun@css.itd.umich.edu (Michael Kwun) writes:
>
>>Brian Hughes (hades@coos.dartmouth.edu) wrote:
>>
>>: Why is comp.sys.laptop not
>>: considered sufficient?
>>
>>because IBM compats ...
>
>A quick substring search suggests to me that comp.sys.laptop is not
>placed under the comp.sys.ibm hierarchy.  Care to clarify?
>
Sure.  It seemed pretty obvious to me, but some people think differently
than I...
   What percentage of the traffice on comp.sys.laptop is IBM compat oriented?
 
If you're still having trouble understanding me, simply replace all references
to "IBM compatible" in my previous post with "non-Macintosh compatible."


-- 
+-------------------------------------+--------------------------------+
|  Internet:  Michael.Kwun@umich.edu  |  I speak only for myself.      |
|  Bitnet:    userW0ZA@UMICHUM        |  Support a local cooperative.  |
+-------------------------------------+--------------------------------+
Xref: sparky news.groups:26256 soc.culture.usa:10081 alt.censorship:10104 alt.individualism:6277 alt.society.civil-liberty:7517 misc.headlines:7562
From: werner@cs.utexas.edu (Werner Uhrig)
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.culture.usa,alt.censorship,alt.individualism,alt.society.civil-liberty,misc.headlines
Subject: public appeal to John DiNardo to stop posting to soc.culture.usa
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 25 Jan 1993 13:58:18 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: dimebox.cs.utexas.edu

Dear John,

(yep.  this is a 'Dear John' letter... :-)
...but it is intended just as much - or more so - to the moderators of
 misc.activism.progressive)

I write this message in regards to your frequent articles (cross-)posted to the
newsgroups soc.culture.usa, specifically, with such Subject-headers as:
	"Part 1, U.S. Government Smuggles Heroin Inside Corpses"
(but my criticism applies just as well for several others of the groups that I
see your articles cross-posted to, consistently).

I really appreciate your efforts of making all the Pacifica Radio Network
transcripts available, but I would like to appeal to you to stop cross-posting
them to all those groups - but most and especially to soc.culture.usa and
misc.headlines (but also several of the alt.* groups)

I view it as IMPOLITE if in a discussion group (and I view all soc.culture.*
groups as such) I get inundated with cross-posts from a single-viewpoint based
moderated group as is misc.activism.progressive (and, do not get confused, I
helped found that group and support it and its viewpoints, mostly), especially
given the frequency of such articles and the fact that they do not invite the
kind of discussion commonly found here (and there are other and better forums
for those discussion anyway).  I'd not complaim about an occassional article
cross-posted to soc.culture.whatever to attract attention to the reporting
or discussions about the subject matter elsewhere, but this cross-posting of
long series of transcripts is annoying like hell and, as far as I am concerned,
a clear mis-conduct by the moderator of misc.activism.progressive - a group which
was founded to provide a "bull-horn" for this kind of "propaganda" (by many it is
so considered), especially as the group was founded with the understanding that
the moderators may restrict the traffic there to "their kind of thinking", but
also thus making it possible for those who do not wish to read or help propagate
it, to be able to do so by simply not carrying that one group.

If the choice of groups to which your articles get cross-posted is actually the
exclusive responsibility of the misc.activism.progressive moderators, my apologies;
I will reserve my tar-and-feathers for my friends there then ...

				Regards,		---Werner
-- 
  werner@cs.utexas.edu |  ..!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!werner | werner@UTXVM.bitnet

              "Free Advice and Opinions -- Refunds Available"
From: graham@cs.washington.edu (Stephen Graham)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: PowerBook Newsgroup
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:15:03 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle

In article <1k4lc2INNgbm@mizar.usc.edu> genzuk@mizar.usc.edu (Michael Genzuk) writes:
>I have seen many more notes in favor of the PB newsgroup and only one
>opposed.  I sure would like to see more dialog on this issue.  
>
>Once again let me voice my support for the formation of this group.
>I think that it will add to all PB interneting folks, and help to 
>cut back a little from the huge amount of entries in the other Mac
>groups.  I know that when I am away from the net for a few days and
>I start to search the Mac groups it is cumbersome having to sift
>through so many different topics. 

I'm opposed to a group specifically for Powerbooks. As others have pointed
out, Powerbooks aren't the only Mac portables in existence nor will they
be the only ones produced in the future. Comp.sys.mac.laptop makes much
more sense.
-- 
Stephen Graham
graham@cs.washington.edu	 uw-beaver!june!graham
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: RFD: comp.os.nt
From: a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (Arthur Rubin)
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:35:09 GMT
Organization: Beckman Instruments, Inc.
Keywords: Microsoft Windows NT Win32

comp.os.ms-windows-nt or comp.os.ms-windows.nt seem reasonable names to me.
I prefer the former, but the later seems a reasonable location.  Names
without ms- are inconsistent with the current namespace with
comp.windows.*, in spite of ms's attempt to trademark "Windows".
--
Arthur L. Rubin: a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (work) Beckman Instruments/Brea
216-5888@mcimail.com 70707.453@compuserve.com arthur@pnet01.cts.com (personal)
My opinions are my own, and do not represent those of my employer.
My interaction with our news system is unstable; please mail anything important.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Proposed startrek split
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
	<1993Jan21.105357.19611@husc3.harvard.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:48:56 GMT

CS> == christopher stone <cstone@husc8.harvard.edu>

 CS> If you agree that reviews and comments are intimately linked, then
 CS> why have a special group for reviews to begin with?

If you agree that FAQs and USENET discussions are intimately linked, then
why have a special group for FAQs to begin with?
--
 * Christopher Davis * <ckd@eff.org> * <ckd@kei.com> * [CKD1] * MIME * RIPEM *
From: mkc@Graphics.Cornell.edu (Mitch Collinsworth)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: RENAME several groups to rec.outdoors.*
Date: 26 Jan 1993 13:27:04 -0500
Organization: Cornell University Program of Computer Graphics
NNTP-Posting-Host: rex.graphics.cornell.edu

In <1993Jan25.134119.11236@hellgate.utah.edu> allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:

>On side note which I believe has been discussed before is that I would
>love to see rec.skiing split into two groups

>rec.skiing.alpine (downhill)
>rec.skiing.nordic (X-country)

>For me the S/N ratio is too high for my particular interest (nordic
>skiing) and as such I turned it off.

My point exactly.  Long ago I gave up even looking at the subject lines
in rec.skiing.  I started a mailing list for nordic skiing and last
winter it seemed to be picking up with some promise of success.  It went
totally dormant during the summer and for some reason has just not
gotten going again this winter.  There have been a couple of
subscribe-flurries, probably due to someone plugging it here or there,
but nearly no traffic.  I thought it was a good idea, but am considering
canning it if it stays this quiet the rest of the winter.

Totally opposite results from the orienteering list.  Seems the more
traffic comes over the orienteering list, the less comes over
nordic-ski.

Ok, to save me answering questions individually, seeing as I've
mentioned these lists, I'll give the details.  To subscribe to
nordic-ski send mail to nordic-ski-request@graphics.cornell.edu.  To
subscribe to orienteering send mail to
orienteering-request@graphics.cornell.edu.

-Mitch Collinsworth
 mitch@graphics.cornell.edu