HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Childbirth
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:34:42 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

I didn't really expect to get any research done on this topic, but much
to my surprise when I went home on Friday, I found the most terrific
childbirth and child rearing book catalog sitting on the kitchen table.  It
turns out that one of my housemates sometimes teaches childbirth classes,
and so is on this mailing list.  The following is a list of books that
looked interesting.  I'm going to stop by the library tonight and
see what I can pick up, and I'll probably order a few of these.  I haven't
read any of these yet, so I don't know if they are as good as they look.
If there's any interest, I'll post more thorough reviews/info after I've
had a chance to look at whatever ones I find.  The descriptions come from the 
catalog.  Sorry, it didn't include publisher information for most of these.
My housemate said that books chosen for this catalog are usually accurate
and useful.

_History of Childbirth_ by Jaques Gelis, 1991.  The author reconstructs the
system of practices, beliefs and taboos that surrounded conception, pregnancy
and birth.

_Childbirth Wisdom from the World's Oldest Societies_ by Judith Goldsmith, 
1991.  The author provides a fascinating study of childbirth in cultures 
around the world.

_Cultural Warping of Childbirth_ by Doris Haire, 1972.  Thought provoking
analysis of various maternity practices and their effects on mother, infant,
and families.  Reprinted in 1985.

_Visualizations for an Easier Childbirth_ by Carl Jones, 1988.  Teaches the 
expectant mother to mentally prepare for baby's birth to achieve the experience
desired.

(Same author also wrote a book called _Mind Over Labor_)

_Pregnancy and Dreams_ by Patricia Maybruck, 1989.  Describes typical dreams
of pregnant women and their causes.  Five step program for understanding
dreams and overcoming nightmares is outlined.  Drawn from research of over
1000 dreams from 67 pregnant women.

_Natural Pregnancy_ by Janet Balaskas, 1991.  Clear and simple guide to an
enjoyable pregnancy, encouraging the use of natural or alternative means
of achieving a problem-free pregnancy.

_Healing Yourself During Pregnancy_ by Joy Gardner, 1987.  Presents natural
and herbal cures for more than thirty common complaints women may have from
conception through pregnancy and breastfeeding.

The catalog also included many books on things like cesaerian births, 
infertility, child development, and had technical reference books geared to
OB's and midwifes.  It's called the ICEA Bookmarks (International
Childbirth Education Association), PO Box 20048, Minneapolis Minnesota
55420.  It's available to non-members.  (Although I get to order on my
housemate's order form and get her member discount, lucky me.)  Membership
is $20, and includes a 10% discount on books.

Dawn
"Hello death, goodbye Avenue A.  I'm getting tired of waiting, tired of
being afraid.  Joseph Campbell gave me hope and now I have been saved.
So I sing hello death, goodbye Avenue A."  "Folk Song" by Bongwater.
From: hiho@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark Peterson)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: I don't Understand
Date: 5 Nov 1992 17:15:55 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Reply-To: hiho@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: hiho@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

From article <2F2PTB1w165w@brewich.hou.tx.us>, by skye@brewich.hou.tx.us (Skye Stryder):

> dunsmore7043@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

>>   Is there no way to understand magick without the pretense on religion and
>> obscure writtings? Is there no way to learn magick `on th job' so to speak?
>> 
>>                                         J(Dunsmore7043@iscsvax.uni.edu)


1) There are no stupid questions.

2) No.  But don't worry about the obscure language.  You wouldn't let
that stop you from learning about, say, quantum mechanics or, say,
setting up your VCR, right?  And this is a lot more interesting.  It's
simply a matter of becoming acquainted with the vocabulary.  After
awhile it stops being obscure and starts to become blinding and mysterious. 

3) Yep.  There is no way to learn any of this *except* on the job, so
to speak.  


On the other hand it is, a priori, impossible to understand magick.  ;-)



hiho


-- 
mark ce peterson   | uw-washington county  | hiho@csd4.csd.uwm.edu 
dept of philosophy | west bend, wi.  53095 | (414) 335-5200        

     The shorter the tether, the sooner the goat starves.
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Necronomicon
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 10:55:55 GMT

wirta@convex1.tcs.tulane.edu (john wirta) writes:
: >
: And if you see the future of others?  Are you seeing incontrovertible fact,
: or is it just a possibility.  And if it is just a possibility would you
: notice a change in what you had seen?
: 
: I have to ask that question because I _do_ see the future of all things
: around me.  The things I see are never wrong.  I look and I see each
: thread of everything in the world, how each is integral in every other
: interaction and how _impossible_ it is to truly make a choice except for a
: very few threads in the entire fabric of things.  Most seeming choices seem
: to have already been decided by the actions and interactions of everything 
: around them.  As I have said, however there are a few points along many of the
: threads where the thread splits, and as the moment in time of that split
: approaches, one of the branchings fades out of existance, again leaving only
: one path.

Ok. Now, what happens of circumstances change and, because of this, the future
changes for the individual. Would you be aware of this? Or, would your vision
of the future change - without your being aware of it changing?

Bill
From: ae561@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Peter Wong)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Opinions needed on the future...
Date: 8 Nov 1992 03:09:35 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


	Hi, greetings....

I have these associates (I met them this summer) that told me a
story of the future, recently.  They, also, told me that they had
a lot of dreams (they claim...note, that I not falling over myself
in belief -NOR- great disbelief) about the future.

Well, the story is somewhat complicated; however, in short, they
stated that there was once magik on Eartha at one time and just 
befor ethe end of the millenium, there will be this "...great
war...".

They don't seem like the type of people that would play a "group
joke" on one person, me.  Of course, one of them (they are a family)
is very scientific in nature (to believe in this, but he does)


	In short, what is people's opinion on "the great war"?


-- 
ae561@clevleand.freenet.edu
pwong@heartland.bradley.edu
usr10687@tso.uc.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: artephius 'secret book' (very long)
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 08:10:50 GMT

markk@pongo.West.Sun.COM (Mark Allen Kampe) writes:

>It is quite possible that the "secret fire" referred to is the organic
>solvent for metals that Paracelsus considered to be the "lesser work"
>(also a necessary component in the completion of the "greater work",
>the Philosophers' stone).  This solvent would, among other things,
>enable people to safely consume otherwise poisonous metals and derive
>benefits (that I do not recall).  He believed that metals like mercury
>were only poisonous in large volumes and direct application.  


and in fact he was able to cure syphillis using medicines prepared from
mercury. a reliable cure for syphillis was not developed until the
(1890's? 1900's?) by paul ehrlich, using  another normally poisonous
metal (arsenic). now, as near as I can determine, the secret fire is
prepared from several ingredients which include copper sulphate and 
some other stuff. the process of preparing it (as can be gleaned from
artephius) is rather involved; I don't know, however, if it is
involved enough to render this highly toxic substance harmless. in
fact, I rather think it isn't.

josh
From: mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Women vs Men
Date: 10 Nov 92 11:36:22 GMT
Organization: School of Mathematics, University of Bath, UK

In the referenced article, billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf) writes:
>: >
>: >Hm. I think Josh and Amanda should address this themselves - if they
>: >feel that such a judgemental attack is even worth a response.
>: >
>: 
>: Oh, right and your not judgemental are you?
>
>Certainly - I freely admit it. Maybe that is why I can recognize such
>apparent attitudes in others.
>
>Bill

Oh right, so it's ok for you to dish it out, but if anyone
reacts that is out of line.  People like you make me vomit!
From: ijd@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Ian J Dickinson)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 10:09:42 GMT
Subject: Re: Initiation to manhood
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: alt.magick


> I don't have the author and other details
> on me at the moment, I will check on them at home tonight. 

_Boy into Man_
(subtitled: A father's guide to initiation of teenage sons)
B. Weiner
Transformation Press, San Francisco, 1992
ISBN: 0-9632636-0-9

Cheers,
Ian.

|Ian Dickinson    HP Labs Bristol (Knowledge Based Programming Dept)   England|
|Email: ijd@hplb.hpl.hp.com    | Enough if something from our hands have power|
|   These opinions are mine,   | To live and act and serve the future hour    |
|  and not (necessarily) HP's  |                                 - Wordsworth |
From: lowell@locus.com (Lowell Morrison)
Subject: Re: Trouble?
Organization: Locus Computing Corp, Los Angeles
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:46:48 GMT

In article <1dr6u3INNme4@lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk> pyuaq@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr G S Sutherland) writes:
>In article <1dpr0eINN88h@gap.caltech.edu> danlip@cco.caltech.edu (Daniel Adam Lipofsky) writes:
>+In article <1992Nov9.191551.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>+>In article <1992Nov8.124418.27215@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>, billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>
>[Stuff deleted]
>
>+>moisture at the poles, increasing their size. This can even lead to an Ice
>+>Age, folks!
>+>
>+Global warming does increase polar snow fall, and so could increase
>+the size of the icecaps.  However, it also increases the melting rate,
>+and it is unclear which is the bigger increase. (not that global warming
>+isn't a problem even if they cancel out).
>
>Not necessarily, the primary myth of the Greenhouse Effect is that the Ice
>Caps are melting to raise the sea-level. They may be melting, but
>
>THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE RISE IS DUE TO THERMAL EXPANSION !!!

Excuse Me!!  Where did you get this Idea.  Oxygen Isotope studies
of the oceans seem to indicate only a 2 or 3 degree difference in
temperature at the surface.  Deep ocean waters (with a circulation
rate of over 2000 years) are not affected at all.  I fail to see
how a 3 degree (celcius difference) at the surface could cause
this result.  Not enough thermal difference to cause a 10 meter
rise, much less the 100 meter rises and drops seen.

By the way, I do have some credentials in this, a MS in Marine Geology (81). 

>
>Hence, it could be entirly possible that the Ice Caps could increase in size
>during such a period.
Of course, it has been long theorised that a glaciation was caused by a 2 or
3 degree average temperatue INCREASE, Higher temperatures (at the eaquator
and sub tropical to temperate regions) = higher evaporation = more snow
(in the polar and sub polar or ANY cool climate [mountain glaciers].

If the show accumulates faster than it melts, we have a glaciation.  A three
degree temperature rise at the pole still leaves the average temperature
comfortably below freezing.

>
>As for the Pole Shift, there are numerous theories for this. Generally they
>include Meteor Strikes, unstable orbits and other freak accidents. I believe
>that they originated with Edgar Cayce.
>
Or normal gyroscopic precession of a tectonically active planet, no
catastrophic event is required to account for this, therefore by
Occams razor a NEED for a catastrophic event is unwarented.

>[Stuff deleted]
>
>+But thanks for a wonderfully humorous theory anyways.
>+
>+--danlip
>
>Dante.
>
And thanks for This opertunity to correct a FEW commonly bandied about
uncorrect Unscientific theories.

--Uncle Wolf
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Subject: Re: Childbirth
Reply-To: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:58:00 +0000

Hah. I remeber a TV program which featured three women having kids -
with in depth interviews about 'the experience of birth' etc etc.

One of the women was immensely charismatic - quite spiritual, but
whilst the other two wittered on about 'womens role' and 'fulfilment'
and 'just like a great orgasm' (had they even HAD one?) the other
woman thought for a moment and replied to the interviewer 'Noo.. it
was...it was just like having an ENORMOUS shit!'


I know which woman I would have preferred to be MY mother :-)

Leo
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Women vs Men
Date: 8 Nov 92 22:27:06 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1992Nov8.180117.2926@samba.oit.unc.edu>, shava@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Shava Nerad Averett) writes:
> 
> this is the reality behind castanedan talk of holes in the aura, the
> left-hand tantrik avoidance of ambition, and much other denigration
> of materialism by many magickal traditions. carreers are parasites: they
> suck about 35 - 40 years out of your life (more intensely, perhaps, to
> fathers than mothers). whatever you were doing before, stops, and
> the job becomes the center of your existence.
> 
> Just a reality check for the folks who aren't trying to have a life...;)
> 
Exactly why, with children as with career, you do your best to make it
a part of your magickal practice. Choose a career that will develop
your mind and keep it sharp. Interact with your children with
consciousness. Both can be aids.
For myself, I need to eat and to pay for my practice, so a career is
unavoidable in any case. 
-- 
"Once upon a time men were possessed    ******************************
by devils. Now they are not less        *  Lorenzo Farris            *
obsessed by ideas" -CG Jung             *  farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu *
					******************************
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Subject: Re: I don't Understand
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 18:20:00 GMT

hiho@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes...

>1) There are no stupid questions.
> 
>hiho
>mark ce peterson

+----------------------------------------SubG--------------------------------+
Whoever told you that LIED.  Horribly.

















Yours etc.,






SubGenius
Xref: sparky alt.magick:5737 sci.skeptic:19203
From: joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller)
Newsgroups: alt.magick,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Claims of Precognition (Was: Re: Necronomicon)
Date: 8 Nov 92 18:09:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: bailey.JOSHUA.92Nov8100924
	<1992Nov8.110731.25444@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science


In article <1992Nov8.110731.25444@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com 
(bill nelson) writes:

>   wirta@convex1.tcs.tulane.edu (john wirta) writes:

>   : After a few days of being around a person I can _locate_ their timeline 
>   :and see what will happen to them (They need to be pretty open or it 
>   :takes slightly longer).  Then they could report how many of the things 
>   :I predict come tru for them.

>   Actually, that is not a good experiment. You need to make it so the 
>  subject is not aware of what is going to occur. This would require that 
>  you informa third person of the events that are going to happen. Then, 
>  later, the subject writes up the things that have occurred - possibly with 
>  some vague questions from the third person - to direct the responses 
>  toward the resolution of the preductions.

>   Not perfect, but probably about the best that can be done.

I would prefer that the account of what happens to the subject not come
from the subject, but rather from another person. also, did you say you
can predict events? perhaps you can seal accounts of a number of local
events that are going to occur and give them to the referree, who will
verify them. 

the most important thing we need, right now, are observors/judges in the
new orleans area.

josh
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: My probs with FAQ
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 11:46:58 GMT

ttk@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (the troglodyte killer) writes:
: 
: whose daughter I am marrying, told me this, and I respect them as 
: sources of information because they're in better positions to know 
: than anyone else I'm ever likely to find.
:  
: >If they suggest "Maybe reading Crowley would be misleading," and 
: >you have several other people telling you that he teaches exactly 
: >what they teach (for less), why don't you take a look for yourself?
:  
:      I have better things to do with my time.  Like study sources 
: which I trust.

And, once again, blind dogmatism pokes its head out of the doghouse.
The only way to learn whether what you have heard may be true or not
is to read, and attempt to understand, the sources which are said to
be invalid.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: My probs with FAQ
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 12:16:52 GMT

rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
: 
: >>That's a lot of money to lay out for a group that may or may not do 
: >>you any good, 
: >  
: >      By and large, those who are ready to learn what AMORC has to 
: > offer are the only ones who bother joining.
: 
: Um. Whatever you say. I guess you should know. I still have my doubts. I've
: known people who consistently wander into the wrong places and who insist on
: spending more money than they have on fake fixes.

Here is a good test of such groups. If they are indeed altruistic and really
wish to help others, then they will not have a required fee for their help.
They will gladly donate the materials to those who cannot afford them. They
will ask those, who have more money, to donate needed funds so this may be
accomplished. $180 a year will easily pay for 5,000 - 10,000 pages of print,
as well as the mailing - when done in volume.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: phoenix@cwis.unomaha.edu (Shannon Chris Saltzman)
Subject: Re: WHY?
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 05:15:48 GMT

Following up on my own article.
"Dive on" means to prey upon.Like a vulture.
I have met some occultists with real Honor but not many.
Most merely have a twisted system of Honor.(the ones Ive met)
They are the ones I would watch out for and this is what I 
meant.
Thankyou.

-- 
"Is doggie heavan kitty hell?"
     Stephanie Phoenix (age 6)
"Nitzche is dead"God
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: My probs with FAQ
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 12:31:08 GMT

ttk@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (the troglodyte killer) writes:
: 
: >hmmm...much of crowley's stuff is pretty traditional G.'.D.'. teachings
:  
:      No it's not.  The GD material was only one source from which 
: he threw together his quilt of philosophies.  He didn't even 
: advance far enough in the organization to get access to most of 
: the material.

Wrong. Crowley held their highest degree of initiation.

: >really? the opposite? how would you know?I hardly think that exchanging
: >the attributions of 'H' and 'Tz' consists of opposition.
:  
:      The opposite in that AMORC teaches betterment of self and 
: betterment of mankind, while Crowley taught the exploitation of 
: occult knowledge to further the desires of those who have no 
: interest in self-enlightenment or the welfare of humankind 
: (himself for example).

How would you know? By your own admission, you have not read anthing
written by Crowley. 

: >thank you! a new phenomenon, if not to the world, at least to alt.magick. BA
: >is often highly critical of crowley, but he has at least read one or two 
: >books. I think you are the first poster here who glorys in the condemnation
: >of a whole school of thought from a position of absolute ignorance of it.
: >Your courage in admitting this, with your bare face hanging out, astounds me.
:  
:      I have posted my sources, and I believe them to be sound.  I 
: have no problem admitting the truth.

How about posting something about Crowley that you have learned from his
writings themself? I would not post opinions about Christianity by reading
the Koran.

: >lessee. suppose we are discussing physics, and you are asked if you have
: >read any isaac newton (who, by the way, had at least as many unendearing
: >personal characteristics as uncle al). and you reply: 'I have read some
: >hostile and journalistic books about him, and I have heard what people (who
: >advocate truth and are in a position to know) have to say about the guy.
: >From this information, I have decided that [sic] not to study this man's
: >philosophy'.
: >would I or would I not be justified in thinking you six kinds of idiot?
:  
:      If I decided not to study physics, you'd be justified, but I 
: have no idea what Newton's philosophies were like.  I suspect you 
: don't either.  I did learn newtonian physics (kinematics et al) as 
: a freshman, of course.  Kinematics has very little to do with 
: philosophy.

Nor do you have any idea what Crowleys philosophies were. All you have
is the statements of people who could very easily be wrong. Why do you
seem so bound and determined to avoid finding out for yourself?

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.magick