From: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kelvin Leung)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Date: 27 Aug 92 23:45:19 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>>
>>some luck souls might have a 386SX Bridgeboard.  And if they really know
>>what they are doing, they can desolder the 386SX and replace it with
>>a Cyrix chip.
>>

>Sounds great.								NOT!

may I ask... why not?

>>
>>Now... Jerry... just for the sake of argument  (oops... perhaps I shouldn't
>>say this...) what can a 486 do that a 386 cant?  
>>

>Not much.  There are some minor (minute) MMU and instruction set differences
>and a built-in FPU and cache.  It just runs a hell of a lot faster than a
>386/387 combo.

may I repeat myself once again... "What can a 486 do that a 386 can't?"

now... what does those minor instruction difference has anything to do
with my question?  please remember... we are talking about running IBM
software... is there any 486 specific software out there?  (and please
dont tell me NeXTSTEP 486, as it isn't out yet).  More importantly,
how many people actually use those 486 specific software?

and... mind you... Cryix's 386/486 clone (forgot what's that chip is called)
executes every 486 commands... true, it is not as fast as a regular 486,
but it does everything that *a 486 does, but a 386 does not*.

                    
>>
>>>Mike, you're full of shit.  No video support out of the box?!  What box?
>>>Find me a clone vendor that doeesn't sell complete systems.
>>
>>Take it easy, buddy.  When he said  "video" support, he means real video...
>>ie, NTSC VHS video (or PAL beta for other folks...).
>>

>Oops.  Sorry about that.  Oh well, Mike was full of it anyway.

:) nice argument, buddy. ;)  I cant think of anything to say... :)

[regarding taping the screen onto a video tape on a stock Amiga deleted]

>Amazing technological breakthrough.  I used to do the same thing (for an in-
>store display) with a vintage 1981 Atari 800 that I bought used in 1984 for
>$75.  Of course, there were no presentation software packages, so I had to
>program each presentation myself (colorful scrolling text and pictures were
>easy to do on the Atari).

well... at least a stock Atari can do it--but a "stock" IBM clone cant...
more power to the Atari.  (Jeff Young, et all, please help me defend against
Jerry... :) :) )

Furthermore, let's not forget one thing: when the ATari 8 bit, Apple II
, Sinclair ??? and Vic-20 were released, not that many can afford to buy
a RGB monitor just for output.  Therefore, a composite output from the
machine is not only a feature, but also essential.   As a result, true--
the Atari 800 can do it... but that's because it has to... or else
no one will buy it.

BTW, I am glad you mentioned about your Atari 800... 'cause that's a 
pre-cursor of the Amiga.  Welcome to the club, Jerry! :)

>>
>>Take it easy, buddy.  Many of us bought our Amigas years ago... so we dont 
>>have those hot-shot gadgets IBM buyers could buy nowadays.  Remember,
>>at that time the Amiga's competition was a CGA 10Mhz 80286 system... the
>>choice to many of us was obvious... :)
>>

>No question about that.  But when Amigoids start comparing their A500s to
>today's PC's and UNIX workstations, it gets a bit ridiculous.

well... two things...

1) I really doubt A500 owners started the debate... in most cases, I  think
   people tend to laugh at an A500 owners for owning such a "toy."  As a
   result, these A500 owners have to standup for his machine, and
   defend for it... hey, I consider these bunch of people good people. 
   (as long as they don't over do it like my ex-roommate... but hey! 
    he was one of the first who abandoned the Amiga and aimed for something
    else!!! :)

2) the A500, despite what most people believed, is very expandible.  Ok,
   tell me... what would you consider as a UNIX station?  would you consider
   a Sun 3 as a unix station?  well... anyways... with an A500, you could
   expand it in the follow ways (granted, there are more--but I will state
   only two for the sake of discussion):

	option 1: 
             Add PP&S 040 (A500 version), which gives you 4MB of 32bit
             ram, and a 25Mhz 040.  Then add an OpalVision (24 bit gfx
             add-on which is also available for the Amiga 500).  Now,
             that's quite a system... if you were to run AmigaOS, 
             this system truly rivals many systems...  oh... let's not
             forget those SCSI adaptors... so such A500 can use those
             fancy-dandy tape drives, CD-rom, removable media and whatnot.

	option 2:
              get one of those A500-->A2000 tower thingy.  Some of them
              gives the A500 all the A2000 slots... which means an A500
              can use the VideoToasters, C='s accelerator, C='s scsi adaptor...
              what for, you may ask... well... once you got your C= 030 acc.
              and scsi card, you can then run UNIX.   you think 25Mhz isn't
              fast enough?  then add that 50Mhz accelerator... now,
              does that rival a UNIXstation?  

	True, I admit, even an A500 with one of those German-made Transputer
board might not be able to beat today's Sun Sparc 10, Iris Crimson...
but hey... neither can a top-notch IBM clone!!!

	So... what's my point?  I don't mean to upset you, Jerry.  Yes,
I agree Amiga's price is much higher than an IBM clone... but that doesn't
mean that the Amiga doesn't have its merits.  We like the Amiga... that's
why we are still staying with the Amiga--and that doesn't mean I don't
open myself to other computers either... I agree with Mykes--though he
owns a Dell 486 now, he claims he will still keep and use his Amiga.  Now,
Jerry, would you please try to understand us--we like our machine--and it
isn't dead yet... so let's not try to convince us the Amiga is doom, ok? 
thanks...

Besides... if you did manage to convince some of us to jump boat to 
the IBM market... well... congratulations.  However, the same group of
people would easily jump boat to another system when someone else
convinces them...           

	anyways... I really don't mean to argue with you, Jerry.  I respect
you, and I hope you will respect us too.

	Thanks for listening, folks.  

Now... back to regular .advocacy broadcast...

Yours Sincerely,
Kelvin

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