HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: livant@cs.uri.edu
Subject: Re: Sanctity of relationships
Organization: University of Rhode Island, Computer Science Dept.
Distribution: world,soc
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 04:07:32 GMT

This whole thread of discussion reminds me of an ex-boyfriend. He treated me
as if I didn't have the mental capacity to keep a good relationship healthy
if his friends said anything negative about him to me.  There was one incident
which involved a female friend of his.  She told me that she didn't think he
was the type to ever be serious and didn't want to see me hurt.  I told her
that whatever happened, I could handle myself.  After we talked, we rejoined
the men (her boyfriend and mine) and I was cross-examined relentlessly.  I
didn't tell him anything because she had asked me not to.  She walked into
the room and told him our conversation and then left.  He looked at me and
was asking me why I didn't tell him the conversation.  When I told him that
I didn't because she had asked me not to, he got this painfully patient look
on his face like he was dealing with a moron and explained to me that this was
such an important item that I shouldn't have kept it from him.  I told him that
I disagreed and that I could certainly handle his friends' opinions of him.

The long and the short of it is that he never trusted me to have a mind of my
own.  I dumped him.  I can't stay with someone who can't trust me to be faith-
ful to him or trust me to not be swayed unduly by everything I hear.  So, I
think that trying to get someone away from a relationship is a slimy thing to
do, if the person is worthwhile and the relationship is good then the SO has
nothing to worry about and the slime won't win.

Newsgroups: alt.romance
From: stcroix@ultra.com (Bill St. Croix)
Subject: Re: Ed and Teresa (Carp ????)
Followup-To: alt.romance.chat 
Reply-To: stcroix@ultra.com (Bill St. Croix)
Organization: Ultra Network Technologies
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 22:04:11 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.183847.27993@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> hoff@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Wildfire) writes:
>afdenis@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (Stephen Dennison) writes:
>
>>Well, that's 5 `for' and 2 `against'... all votes in ?? :-)
>
>Make that 6 for....And to the people who say to take it to a.r.c.....
>You don't have to read it, do you?   Just stick it in a killfile if
                                           ^^^^^^^^^
Yeah...."stick it"!!

Make that 6 for and 3 (THREE) against.  It is more appropriate to the, 
"Romantic banter" in ARC.  Alt.romance is *supposed* to be a question and
answer forum of sorts.  ARC is a CHATter place...as its name implies.

>you're really that much against it....nobody is forcing you to read anything.

I shouldn't need to create a killfile for something that has an appropriate
place on the net.  If I want to read about this stuff here, I would type,
"g alt.romance.chat" and then type, "y".  But I'd rather not.  All we are
suggesting is that appropriate news, goes to the appropriate place.

>			-Wildfire-
>I apologize for any nastiness in this post.  It's been a long day and its just
>going downhill.....

It has been for all of us....don't feel bad!

	Bill

---
I don't believe in the stars or the planets or angels watching from
above, but I believe there's a Ghost of a Chance, we can find someone to
love and make it last...
Newsgroups: alt.romance
From: sean.casey@EMCB.CC.UTAH.EDU (SEAN THOMAS CASEY)
Subject: Re: catfight time!
Organization: University of Utah
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 17:26:40 GMT

	'Scuse me for interrrupting this fascinating form of guerilla 
warfare, but may I make a possibly constructive suggestion?

	From what I've read, especially in that last message, both of y'all 
are pissed off at each other.  Both of y'all have done things to piss the 
other off.  Tell me if I'm wrong so far.

	It also seems to me that neither of y'all is listening to the 
other.  And yet, if nothing else, you're both screaming about how neither of 
you communicate.  Good job of proving your point.

	My suggestion is this:  simply apologize to each other, for whatever 
it is y'all did to get each other pissed off.  I don't know about you, but 
whenever I hurt a friend (or someone I thought was a friend) I find it in 
order to make an apology.  It could be I still think the reasons for what I 
did are valid (even if it's "I didn't know!") but for causing the other 
person pain . . . at least for that an apology is usually in order.

	Then again, y'all can go on trying to rip each other's guts out 
right here on our friendly little news.net.  Entirely up to you.

	Just a suggestion.

		Sepiriz of the Nihrain
Newsgroups: alt.romance
From: aatresa@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (Teresa Kline)
Subject: Help for Ed
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Yeah, *right* !
Date: 10 Apr 1992 11:25 EST  

OK, Ed.  Since you apparently missed it, I've re-posted the article you say 
doesn't exist.  So there!!

 =========================================================================
I've been sitting on this one for a while.  But I've decided to have some 
fun.  Some *things* never die, but some *people* may!

That means *you*, Stephen !  :)

And possibly you too, Ed !  :)

In article <1992Feb26.100337.28359@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, dschneid@hollerith.ece.wisc.edu (Dan Schneidewend) writes...
>In article <25FEB199208081490@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> aatresa@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (Teresa Kline) writes:
>>>And I suppose I should throw in the I am an engineer with a master's degree 
>>>and am also reasonably attractive (at least that's what they tell me! :) )  
>>>I can also spell, which is supposed to be anathema to engineers.  I don't 
>>>think it takes much effort to spell, but maybe I'm just a nerd chick.  I 
>>>can live with that.
>>>
>>>Teresa
> 
>>And of course your taken. 

>Frequently ! :-)

>(Gawd, I'm gonna *fry* for this one !)

That you are, friend.  That you are.

>>The good ones always are };>

>Ain't it the truth. (I *don't* think I averted my emasculation with this 
>compli/ement, but I *may* have put it off an hour or so.) :-)

Not even by an hour, as *I* recall the day!  :)

>Yeah ... unfortunately.  Teresa hasn't asked me out YET!!! :( :( :(
--
>Ed Carp     erc@apple.com, erc@khijol.UUCP, erc@pogo.Corp.Sun.COM

Ok, Ed...so I'm asking.  *NOW* what are you going to do?

=======================================================================

Did you get it this time?

-- Teresa

		Life -- just for the FUN of it!!!!
From: cl2g+@andrew.cmu.edu (Charles Anthony Leone)
Newsgroups: alt.romance
Subject: Re: Is this a common thing?
Date: 14 Apr 92 05:24:15 GMT
Organization: Senior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Ummm...

I can't answer for any women out there, but I can tell you how I feel as
a young man.

Yes, I do worry that I'll get my partner pregnant every time I have sex.
It's just a fear I may never get rid of. Here's why.

I come from a family where my father, one natural cousin, and I are the
only living men out of some 60 people (on both sides). Both grandfathers
are deceased, and my parents have no brothers. I have 2 sisters; most of
my cousins have 4 or 5. Uncles married into the family don't last once
my many female cousins and aunts have a few daughters. [One Christmas I
got my cousin's husband, a new father, in the grab bag. I bought him
some luggage.] I've seen firsthand what women go through when their
wonderful boyfriends dump them, cheat on them, talk shit behind their
backs, vandalize their property, suddenly vanish from the house, you
name it.

My cousin Andy (he's 28) and I grew up surrounded by bitches (My Mom is
not a bitch, though, nor is my younger sister [of 2]. Poor Andy took a
real beating from his single mother and 5 sisters). As a result, he and
I have always been very cautious daters, going for women ONLY when we
like them inside as well as outside. ****We always felt that any time we
ask a woman out, she automatically assumes we want her for sex and only
for sex, and if she gets pregnant then we'd be gone in the wind. That's
the way many of our sisters and cousins feel, and they bitch about
everyone all the time.**** Andy is now happily married and a father of 2
(yes, both girls) to a really smart and logical woman who looks like a
Playboy model. I just hope I can get over my fears and marry someone as
wondeful to me as they are to each other.

I've never met someone so petrified of impregnating a woman as myself or
Andy, but the fear is very common. I wouldn't even think of abandoning
her over an accidental pregnancy, but I've known around 100 guys who did
just that.


________________
Tony L.

8^\)
________________
Newsgroups: alt.romance
From: mlb@cisco.com (Marcia Bednarcyk)
Subject: Re: The Wall
Organization: The Dolphin Conspiracy, Phase II
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 22:05:07 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.220342.25553@mercury.cair.du.edu>, charon@diana.cair.du.edu (Chuck Haron) writes:
|> Doesen't ther come a time when one gets tired of beating his/her head against
|> The Wall, and the search just doesn't seem worth it anymore?

There sure does...and that's when you really start to live, free of this
burden of "searching". You start to appreciate the happinesses you already
have, and you go out and do things you enjoy, and take joy in them. All the
energy that you put into "searching" for someone to make your life complete
you can now put into making your life complete yourself. And just about the
time that you finally have it all together, and you're going along...someone
just might show up who has also given up the search....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marcia Bednarcyk                                        ADDRESS: mlb@cisco.com
"Sweaty Snugglebunnies."
"... the meaning of life is to be happy, try not to hurt people, and hope
you fall in love."
Xref: sparky alt.romance:7029 soc.singles:11154 soc.couples:2091
From: esper@cs35b.cs.umn.edu (Dave Sherohman)
Newsgroups: alt.romance,soc.singles,soc.couples
Subject: Re: Sanctity of relationships
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:46:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: news2.1992Apr13.224655.4640
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Minnesota

In article <1992Apr13.164050.27066@cbfsb.cb.att.com> sms@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (steven.m.stein) writes:
>In article <14xW02mCc7EC00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> jsp@pls.amdahl.com writes:
>>dave@bradley.bradley.edu (David Vessell) writes:
>>
>
>>Or maybe a better analogy is that of banging on a window with a hammer.
>>You can say that if the glass is strong, then your efforts won't amount
>>to a hill of beans anyway, and if your actions break the glass then it
>>probably wasn't very strong to begin with.  But you can't get away from
>>the fact that if you had left the window alone, it would still be fine.
>>
>>The point is that such is just rationalization.  Whatever the state of
>>an existing relationship, whether it be strong or weak, your efforts to
>>actively break it up introduce a new element.  And who are you to say
>
>I still can't believe that in todays society, men still view women
>as personal property.  Are we still hanging on to the CroMagnon
>mentality????  I know you so boldly stated that you are not comparing
>relationships with property ownership, but you did it twice.  A car

Pay attention to the material you attack, Steve.  Dave V compared breaking a
window/stealing a car to breaking a relationship, not a person.  Relationships
are property of a sort, belonging to all who are involved with them, thus you
have gone after a nonproblem.

esper@ima.umn.edu
Newsgroups: alt.romance,soc.singles,soc.couples
From: sms@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (steven.m.stein)
Subject: Re: Sanctity of relationships
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 17:13:28 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.070742.9944@ultra.com> stcroix@ultra.com (Bill St. Croix) writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.155721.19833@cbfsb.cb.att.com> sms@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (steven.m.stein) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr10.131827.6746@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> Brian.C.Kohn@att.com (The Resource, Poet-Magician of Quality) writes:
>>>
>>>I think this is because some *evil* men, like Mr. Stein, *do* actively
>>>try to break up relationships in order to woo women, (j/k Steve! :-) )
>>>whereas women do not do this.  Women are much more civilized than men.
>>>
>>Being that I have never set out intentionally to break up a relationship
>>totally invalidates your point.  I have however been persued by women
>>who were dissatisfied with the relationship they were in and ended that
>>relationship either prior to or at the beginning of a more fullfilling
>>relationship with me.  (Not that I am the perfect mate, but obviously
>>better than the one they were in.)
>
>Obviously you aren't the perfect mate, Steve...they aren't still with you,
>are they? :+)
>

Hmmmmmmm, I wonder if I may have had anything to do with the decision
to end previous relationships??????  But since you are so convinced that
other peoples wills are soooooo influential over others, I guess I was
not solely responsible for any decision I may have made in my life

>I'm convinced!  Steve, it's people like you that don't think anyone elses
>opinion matters but your own that ruin peoples lives.  You are in it for 
>what you can get.  Why can't you take this guys word that he is secure in 
>his relationship???  It's guys like you that tell women that "No" means
>"Yes"!
>
You obviously don't know we at all.  Comment on things you know more about.
You could not have been more wrong.  Other peoples opinions matter to
me a great deal.  Especially people I care for, but their opinions do
not "govern" mine.  They may influence mine (and I said "may", depending
on the importance or severity of the issue) but do not govern.  And
whether they influence my opinions or not, it's still my choice, not
theirs.
					Steve
>
>	Bill
>
Xref: sparky alt.romance:6777 soc.singles:10707 soc.couples:1970
From: margoli@watson.ibm.com (Larry Margolis)
Newsgroups: alt.romance,soc.singles,soc.couples
Subject: Re: Sanctity of relationships
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:32:45 GMT
Reply-To: margoli@watson.ibm.com
Distribution: world,soc
Organization: The Village Waterbed
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM

In  <1992Apr8.151924.27508@u.washington.edu>  intrigue@milton.u.washington.edu (Angelwing) writes:
> >
> >on 7 Apr 92 05:59:29 GMT,
> >rnjx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu said:
> >
> >> The question is this.  Is it ever morally and/or ethically O.K. to actively
> >> try to woo one member of an existing relationship from that relationship so
> >> that you may start one with her/him?

Personally, I wouldn't actively woo them, but I might let her know that
I'm interested.

> Angelwing  - Go ahead ...*try* to steal me.  Hah!

But I don't want to *steal* you, I just want to *borrow* you for a while.

> *------------------------------------------------------------------*
> * Angelwing       |"Two things are wanted by a true man, danger and*
> * U. of Washington| play - therefore, he seeks woman as the most   *
> *                 | dangerous toy."       Friedrich Nietzsche      *
> *------------------------------------------------------------------*

And I think you'd make a most dangerous plaything.

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
Newsgroups: alt.romance,soc.couples,soc.singles
From: robd@cray.com (Robert Derrick)
Subject: Re: lying to oneself (was Re: Sanctity of relationships)
Distribution: world,soc
Date: 9 Apr 92 18:06:43 CDT

Stephen writes:
: (Meloney Cregor) writes...
: > I wrote:

	[that it is difficult in the extreme to really lie to oneself,
	 maybe close to impossible for a sane person]

    [Meloney, and Stephen, et. al., disagree in the extreme!]

Well, kids, [son, mom, sis, etc], I am far from being a Pollyanna, and
yes, I have lied to myself, and perhaps you have too.  But did I believe
it?  I Don't Think So!  Did I try to believe it?  You bet.  Could I have
succeeded?  Maybe.  But every doggone time I take an honest look at
myself, the lies stick out like hammered thumbs.  I just can't hide 'em.
Of course, I could be lying to myself now, but I doubt it.  And then,
how would you know?

Really, how do you know that people who lie to themselves really believe
it?  I think the essence of this thread, and the original ill-fated-triangle
thread is the question of situation ethics, and can they really be applied
in a healthy manner to real world situations.  I'd say yes, but...

When was the last time you did something immoral?
Did you lie to yourself to justify it?
Did you believe the lie?

You are telling me that other people do this, which in truth, are just
unsubstantiated assertions that betray your own generel disgust for some of
your fellow persons.
 
But, how do you know that your assertions have any truth in them at all?

Sorry if the question is too hot.  You may pass if you wish.

rob derrick
Newsgroups: alt.romance
From: is_b420@kingston.ac.uk (Brendan Rooney)
Newsgroups: alt.romance
Subject: I would like some advice.....
Date: 8 Apr 92 12:25:14 GMT
Organization: Kingston Polytechnic

Hi Everyone,
	I am new to this newsgroup and have been reading it for about a few
days now and I would like some advice about something.

	3 1/2 years ago I met a girl (she is deaf) at college and we messed
around with other friends (most of whom are deaf), and we became friends.
She was at college for a year and when she left I got her address and that 
was the last I saw of her until December 30th, when she arrived to hand 
a letter to me at the Student hostel I'm staying at in Surbiton (15 miles 
South West of London).  She was in the area seeing a friend of hers.  So we
talked for a few hours, caught up on old news etc... and I found out that 
she was living in London. I visited her in February and spent the afternoon
with her, had some lunch, talked a bit...and that was that.  

	I felt really good about having seen her.  But then doesn't everyone
feel good about seeing their friends? I sent her a fax and she suggested 
that we met up in London at some point -- I could suggest a date and she'd
confirm it.  I popped up on another time -- Sunday evening ( about 3 weeks ago)
and I spent a nice evening in her company.  

	To be honest I'm quite fond of her but I not sure about telling her
how I feel about her.  She has met a guy recently whom she seems happy about
and so now I don't want to say anything in case she then asks me "to leave her
alone" or something like that.
  
	One side of me says:  Just continue to be friends and if anything
			      happens, it will happen naturally.

	The other side says:  Why not say somethng?


	I think I opt for the first side, but I'm not certain.

	Anyone got any ideas.....e-mail would be good...but equally so would
	here on the group.

	Brendan.
	is_b420@kingston.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.romance,soc.singles,soc.couples
From: rbook@flammulated.owlnet.rice.edu (Robert Aaron Book)
Subject: Re: Sanctity of relationships
Organization: Rice University
Distribution: world,soc
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 01:46:44 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.005929.11543@vax5.cit.cornell.edu>, rnjx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
> 
> The question is this.  Is it ever morally and/or ethically O.K. to actively
> try to woo one member of an existing relationship from that relationship so
> that you may start one with her/him?  Under what circumstances?  How about
> pursuing someone who's engaged?  Where do you all draw the line?  If it isn't
> O.K., would you still do it anyway?


I think it's NEVER O.K., and I'd never do it.  I'll even go you one further:
If the person *wanted* to be wooed away, I still wouldn't do it.  Example:
About a year ago a friend of mine was having some problems with her boyfriend,
and in the course of complaining about him to me, strongly hinted (well, more
than hinted) that she'd dump him and go with me.  I refused, telling her
what I think on this issue, which is that you should decide whether to
continue or end a relationship based on how that relationship is, and only
*after* ending one relationship should you think about starting another.
(Incidently, she made up with him, broke up with him again, etc., but we
are still friends.)

In addition to the ethical issue, there is also the practical issue:  if the
object of your "wooing" is responsive, then obviously he/she isn't very 
committed to his/her present relationship, and probably won't be committed
to the relationship with you, either.  Thus, he/she will probably be wooed 
away from you by someone else, so what's the point?

--Robert Book
  rbook@rice.edu
Newsgroups: alt.romance,soc.couples,soc.singles
From: mcregor@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Meloney Cregor)
Subject: Re: lying to oneself (was Re: Sanctity of relationships)
Organization: Dept. of Psychology, Univ. of Illinois, Urbana
Distribution: world,soc
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 17:45:48 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.101644.5254@hemlock.cray.com> robd@cray.com (Robert Derrick) writes:

>I agree with you that people "lie to themselves all the time", but I
>don't think they are very successful at believing it.  Though it
>doesn't stop 'em from trying.

*snort*
Son, do I have some people *You* need to meet.

There are, indeed, people who can lie to themselves and everyone they meet
and completely convince themselves they are honest and don't practice
deception.
From: jodar@girtab.usc.edu (Nicholas Jodar)
Newsgroups: alt.romance
Subject: Re: I would like some advice.....
Date: 8 Apr 1992 22:13:14 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: girtab.usc.edu
Summary: Not too hard to deal with....
Keywords: Friends, Subtlety

In article <1992Apr8.122514.16826@kingston.ac.uk> is_b420@kingston.ac.uk (Brendan Rooney) writes:

>Hi Everyone,
>	I am new to this newsgroup and have been reading it for about a few
>days now and I would like some advice about something.

Well, first of all, welcome! :-)

>	One side of me says:  Just continue to be friends and if anything
>			      happens, it will happen naturally.
>
>	The other side says:  Why not say somethng?
>
>
>	I think I opt for the first side, but I'm not certain.

Why not both?

Be her friend.  Don't do it because you're interested in her in a
romantic way.  If you really like her as a person, then be her
friend.  Friendship goes beyond mere romance--it's called loving
somebody for who they are.

At the same time, there are hundreds of ways to let somebody know
you like them without 'hitting on them.'  

'Your boyfriend is really lucky to have a girlfriend like you.'
'Don't say that, you have BEAUTIFUL eyes!'
'That's one of the things I love about you, you're so cheerful.'

I could go on and on, but you probably get the picture....

-Nick

'I'm too tired say anything except goodnight.'
From: erc@pogo.Corp.Sun.COM (Ed Carp)
Newsgroups: alt.romance
Subject: Re: Something special in a LDR
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:39:20 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: pogo.corp.sun.com

In article <204784@unix.cis.pitt.edu> was1+@pitt.edu (Scott A Wayne) writes:
 
>2)  I sung "After the Lovin'" one night.  BTW, this song was originally done
>    by Englebert Humperdink and is packed with meaning for a special night.

Only if you have the voice for it.  I don't...:(
--
Ed Carp                                      415/336-0797 (work)

++ UNIX  SysAdmin, Systems  Programming  Services,  Utilities ++
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