From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Polish complicity - Jewish complicity 
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 02:49:36 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.022404.8053@mel.dit.csiro.au> marek@mel.dit.csiro.au (Marek T. Michalewicz) writes:
>
>In article <1992Sep10.165003.9799@Princeton.EDU>, roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>|> In article <1992Sep10.060031.19658@mel.dit.csiro.au> marek@mel.dit.csiro.au (Marek T. Michalewicz) writes:

>|> Now, as for bombing the camp, this might also have caused great loss of
>|> life to the prisoners there at the time.  

>Gas chambers, crematoriums and ramps could be bombed without greater loss 
>of life as if it would still function.

I see.  So you think that bombing was that accurate?  That bombs sufficient
to destroy the killing plants wouldn't have meant sufficient stray bombs
to destroy densely packed barracks, too?

This is especially a problem when one is dealing with a structure known *only*
from aerial photos.  

I might add that this is not only my opinion; military experts have 
voiced similar things.

Besides, what's your question?  What doe sthis have to do with any topic?

>|> >The other example was of the Rabbi of Buda or Pest, who was informed by 
>|> >Home Army intelligence, via Slovakia, of the largely extended barracks, 
>|> >new ramps and crematoriums in Aushwitz, in preparation for Jews of Hungary.

>|> >He did nothing to inform or worn his fellow religious brothers.
>|> >If I remember well he was tried later in Israel. 

>|> So what's your question?  (Also, I suspect you could look these things
>|> up.)

>You could look those things up as well, that was my intention.

WHAT things?  You allude to someone whose name and title you're not
sure of, accuse him of something -- exactly what, I'm not sure; after
all, had this person actually ever visited a death camp? -- and then tell me
that it's *my* responsibility to get the facts straight?  

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.  Once you've actually told me what
you point is, why not go out and tell me whom you're talking about, and
how this relates to that point.

I'm not your librarian.

>|> >Apparently there was only *ONE* demonstration (N.Y.C.?) 
>|> >against extermination of Jews of Eastern Europe. 

>|> Um, remind me -- whom should the American Jews have demonstrated
>|> *against*?  The empty German consulate?  It's not as though there
>|> was a German CNN in those days  that would have let anyone 
>|> responsible *see* such a demonstration.  

>Um, tell me what the peasent had to do. Take a shovel and cut across the 
>electrified barbed wire in Aushwitz?

Which peasant?  Did I say anything about a peasant?  

You posted a long list of supposed crimes of omission by unnamed Jews;
in doing so you got your facts terribly wrong.  Now, when I point out
that your accusations, if true, make no sense -- and have little support
either way -- you respond by asking about peasants.

You said you had some questions.  MAybe it's time to ask them, so we'll
knowwhat you're talking about.

>There are all sorts of difficulties.

Understanding you is my big one.

>|> The first news of the death camps did not reach the US public until 1943.

>Now tell me how is this possible. So many exterminated 
>Jews had families in the US. And as you say they "The extermination of 
>Jews began in mid-1941, around the time of the 
>invasion of the SU."

And who, pray tell, would have told them?  Mail from *neutral* countries in 
Europe took a year to reach the US; I have postmarked covers to prove it.  
Mail from Germany and occupied countries did not reach the US at all.  

As to how it was possible, remember that the war was not fought with TV
cameras in attendance.  Most people in Germany did not know about the 
death camps, let alone people in the US.  

Tell me how it would be possible for the news to have gotten out earlier.
Then go to the New York Times Index and find out when the news *did* 
reach the US.  As I said before, the news became public in 1943; I'm  
currently doing research that involves a poem written for the German-
language Jewish newspaper in New York as a reaction to news of the
Final Solution.  It was written and published in 1943.

>|> Nor is a desperate attempt to pin blame for the Holocaust on its victims.
>-------------------------------- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>THIS IS UTMOST NONSENS! 

>Read what is written and not what you would like it to be.

I did read what was written.  You've deleted quite a bit of it, 
but that doesn't change  anything.  

You said you had some questions; then you didn't ask any.  Instead you
listed a bunch of "facts" -- many of them sheer falsehood -- all with
the same drift: that Jews were somehow responsible for not stopping
the Final Solution.  

You did not tell me *why* you posted this list -- which itself contained
a bit of interpretation, notably the idea that the Jews (some Jews? all
Jews?) were transferring personal guilt onto the Poles.  You gave no
backing for any of your claims, and stated several incorrect things as
well.  

What am I to suppose from a posting like that?  What am I to suppose
from someone who posts misinformation and then complains that the
respondent doesn't do his legwork?  Why did you list the things you listed?

Those are *my* questions.

Roger

Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish