HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: amarante@bucknell.edu (gregory amarante `94)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: CURSES??????
Date: 15 Dec 92 08:45:51 GMT
Organization: Bucknell University, Lewisburg, PA

[Someone was worried about being cursed because of involvement in the occult.
--clh]

amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik) writes:

> You seem to be convinced that this evil is controlling your life -- as
> you are, so it is.  If you stop believing that this "curse" (and
> frankly, I doubt that anyone is cursing you except yourself) is
> ruining your life, then it will stop.

> In times of adversity, I draw strength from the Goddess.  In your
> case, I would recommend drawing strength and solace from Jesus.  Think
> of Him beside you, protecting you from harm.  Tell yourself that,
> because you have left the occult and gone to Christ, you are not
> cursed... you're blessed.

Well, Susan, I'm quite impressed.  You understand better than most
Christians in the world- such as myself.  I have believed in the Lord
Jesus for almost five years now and in that time I have become so
upset with the conduct of "born-again" Christians.  I'll just say that
you have demonstrated a love I would expect to see from Christians.

My addition would be just to be confident, Andie.  Feel the security
and the superior Power of Christ, through the Spirit.  The Spirit
reveals many things, and if you ask remember that Jesus said, "Ask for
anything in my name and believe that you already have received it and
it will be yours."  There is great wisdom and understanding to be
gained if you seek the Spirit of Christ and have patience to
understand.

Love to you Andie from a brother in our Lord.
Feel free to write to me.  I rejoice that you have accepted Jesus.
Greg.  (amarante@pleiades.cs.bucknell.edu)

"Amen.  Come, Lord Jesus."
From: tas@pegasus.com (Len Howard)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Preaching to the Moderns
Date: 13 Dec 92 05:11:01 GMT
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu

Hi Michael
Hi Michael,  I would just like to contribute one point to the VB
issue.  It seems to me that it is another case of human beings
worrying about the HOW of Jesus rather than the WHO of Jesus, just as
they worry about What God looks like rather than WHO God is.

It is not necessary for God to come up with a divine sperm, or
otherwise impregnate Mary the way all other women are impregnated.
It is a miracuus birth, a one of a ki.  It is the product of that
birth that is important......

Maybe the birth narratives of Matthew and Luke _were_ created out of
whole cloth, long after the fa.  So What?  Does that change Jesus in
any way?  Is he not still the Son of God?

Let's keep our mind on the Who rather than the How.......it is much
less contentious that way.  We ought to be utilizing the peace we have
been given, rather than wrangling with each other ab the how, or where
it comerom.

Shalom,                             Len Howard

t
From: aultj@rpi.edu (Jim Ault)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: A Job
Date: 15 Dec 92 09:08:40 GMT
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute

In article <RSHOLMES.92Dec11080655@rodan.syr.EDU> rsholmes@rodan.syr.EDU (Rich Holmes) writes:

   >	Maybe it's because I'm a Christian, and my God supplies all my
   >needs. Maybe the doom and gloomers are without hope because they don't
   >know enough to trust in God.

   In my area, 3 weeks before Christmas, GM has closed a major plant
   putting 1600 people out of work. I guess none of them were Christians.

   And a local department store chain is going out of business, closing
   the last downtown department store and putting I don't know how many
   people on the unemployment rolls. Gee, I *told* them they should hire
   a Christian or two so that wouldn't happen.

   There must be one on the staff of the University here, though, because
   even though I'm an agnostic I have a nice job with good pay.

I am willing to admit that good things happen to Christians and
non-Christians alike.  I also will admit that bad things happen to
Christians and non-Christians alike.  I contend that Christians are
better-off than non-Christians in most cases, first because they know
from Whom all good things come, and second because they have the peace
that passes all understanding when bad things come, and have better
means of handling them when they do.

Also, a case can made that the reason people are blessed with good
things is because they are following God's principles.  I know many
people who don't believe in God that receive blessings because they
are following some of His principles.

Keep on thanking and praising Him, Brian, it is the right thing to do.
We can give thanks to God in good times and bad, because of what Jesus
has done for us.

Followups to soc.religion.christian.
--
Jim Ault, ITS Systems Programmer, aultj@rpi.edu    <><

Oh Lord, open my lips, and my mouth shall show forth Your praise. -Psalm 51:15
From: rreid@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ralph W. Reid III)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: thought for the day (12-16)
Date: 17 Dec 92 04:25:28 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico

Wednesday, December 16:

     He that is pursuing righteousness and loving-kindness will find
life, righteousness and glory.  <Proverbs 21: 21>

-- 
Ralph.  N6BNO.  NOW LOOKING FOR A JOB!
Phone 1-916-345-9155.
lectromail- rreid@ecst.csuchico.edu.
I do not waste time expressing others' opinions!
From: herrickd@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (daniel lance herrick)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: SPIRITUAL WARFARE IS REAL!!!
Date: 13 Dec 92 05:17:58 GMT

In article <Dec.3.01.47.57.1992.18998@geneva.rutgers.edu>, adpgate!miked@urbana.mcd.mot.com ( ADP OPuS) writes:
> World Leader (IK20050@maine.maine.edu) wrote:
> : Ever since I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Personal
> : Saviour, Satan has been trying to destroy my life.  When
> : 
> : HOw can I get SAtan to release his hold on my life?  I want Christ
> : and His Love, and I want to be happy.

There has been a variety of advice in response to this question, much of
it good.

What I have seen, however, does not mention that you probably have some
unfinished business to take care of.  Ed Murphy of OC International (used
to be called Overseas Crusades) has written a book on spiritual warfare
that should have appeared in a Christian book store near you within the 
last 6 or 8 months.  I haven't read his book yet, but I have profited
from his earlier audio cassette series on the subject and am a little
acquainted with his spiritual warfare ministry.

One of the things he says in the audio series is that, in an earlier
generation, the church routinely ran candidates for membership through
a program of exorcism counseling before admitting them to membership.

There are suggestions in your question that you would benefit from
reading his book.  Read the whole book and heed the warnings.  Things
are likely to get exciting enough even if you don't repeat all the mistakes
of those who have gone before you.

dan      dlhpfm!dlh
From: jtauber@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (James Tauber)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Liberal vs. Fundamental
Date: 21 Dec 92 00:00:12 GMT
Organization: The University of Western Australia

I'm a little confused. How can a fundamentalist be legalistic?
If one takes the Bible literally (as I do) then one must accept that
we are grafted into Israel under the Abrahamic covenant on the basis
of faith rather than adherance to the Mosaic covenant by law. In my
experience it's the fundamentalists like myself who realise the freedom
in Christ - no food restrictions, no set day of worship, no traditions!

IHMS

James Tauber (Yaakov ben-Avraham)

[The Christian approach to the Law is one of the most hotly contested
issues here.  It's one on which even people who follow the Bible may
disagree on.  There are fundamentalists who believe that the Law
revealed to Moses contained two components: moral and ceremonial, and
that the moral law is still binding on Christians.  In fact I'd say
that this is the most common view.  

Furthermore, even if you reject the OT Law entirely, it's still
possible to talk about legalism with reference to the NT.  The term
"legalism" is commonly used (though often not by those who do it) to
refer to an approach to the NT that treats it as a source of rules.
This is one of the many situations where terminology has taken on an
ideological flavor.  The issue isn't inerrancy or "literal
interpretation".  No one is claiming that Paul was wrong, nor that
there is some symbolic interpretation of his meaning.  I've called the
issue "immediate applicability".  That is, the question is whether we
should take instructions in the NT and apply them directly, or whether
we should expect to have to make allowances for differences in our
situations.  The difference is one of degree, since everyone agrees
that there are some cases where the situation has changed.  But I
think it's clear there is a basic difference in goals here.  Some
people expect to be able to find answers to our moral questions
directly.  Others expect to find principles that we apply ourselves.
Since those who take the former approach typically refer to terms like
"God's Law" -- even when talking about things from the NT -- it's not
surprising that this approach would be characterized is "legalism".

This was the subject of an extended discussion earlier this fall,
which I for one am not anxious to see re-played.  I'm trying to
summarize it and clarify terminology for you.

--clh]
From: rreid@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ralph W. Reid III)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: thought for the day (12-13)
Date: 14 Dec 92 05:07:30 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico

Sunday, December 13:

     [God] raised [Jesus] up from the dead and seated him at his
right hand in the heavenly places, far above every government and
authority and power and lordship and every name named, not only in
this system of things, but also in that to come.
<Ephesians 1: 20, 21>

-- 
Ralph.  N6BNO.  NOW LOOKING FOR A JOB!
Phone 1-916-345-9155.
lectromail- rreid@ecst.csuchico.edu.
I do not waste time expressing others' opinions!
From: jprzybyl@skidmore.edu (jennifer przybylinski)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Prayer request for new jersey floods...
Date: 17 Dec 92 04:29:11 GMT
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY

hi again, netters....

i wanted to ask for some prayers for a lot of people in new jersey,
especially in monmouth and ocean counties, who lost a lot of homes and
property in the recent storm that hit the shore with such unbelievable
force.  Thanks to the Grace of God, my family's house and our property
is fine (all we lost was the cover to our barbeque grill), but many
people i know lost their homes in floods around the ocean front and
the bays.   WOW, if a natural storm can be that powerful, can we even
fathom thinking about the power of God?!  that blows my mind!!

in particular, i'd like to ask some people to pray for my boyfriend
Paul and his family.  They live in Rumson, right near the water, and
they were flooded out.  it's a shame it happened when it did, so near
to Christmas and all.  Paul just gave his life to the Lord in June,
and so he's still a "baby Christian," finding out how to "walk",
learning new things about how to have a relationship with Jesus, and
about faith.  He comes from a strong Catholic background, and of his
family of 6, he is the only "born-again" Christian (his parents and
siblings are all Catholic, but do not seek a personal relationship
with God).  I know that he loves the Lord, but i wanted to lift him up
in prayer that he continue to seek the Lord's peace and strength in
this very difficult time (he lives with his family).  God has blessed
him with a strong faith--even his family sees this--and i'm praying
that without him having to say anything to them, his faith will be a
witness and a testimony to them about how Jesus is not only our Lord,
our saviour, our Healer, our Deliverer, our Comfort, our Joy, and our
Refuge, but that He is also our Provision when we seek Him!! (Paul is
very much opposed to sharing his beliefs with his family because he is
still "shaky" and "still learning" about a lot of things himself).

thanks, all!!
jenny przybylinski
jprzybyl@scott.skidmore.edu

THE FERVENT, EFFECTUAL PRAYER OF A RIGHTEOUS MAN [woman, whatever] 
AVAILS MUCH!
                             (James 5:28)
From: steele@dimsum.jpl.nasa.gov (Rob Steele)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Christian Position
Date: 16 Dec 92 06:43:40 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA

My pastor this last weekend (Dec 11-13) announced that he had become aware
of a temporary position at the University of Moscow for an individual to
teach English as a second language. Since there is a great deal of interest
in Christianity, this would be an excellent opportunity to share the Gospel
while teaching. He even inferred that one could use the Bible as the text
to teach English. Anyone with the appropriate background who can take a part
time position between Feb-Jun 93 should contact me. I will forward the
information to our pastor.

				Rob Steele
				work phone USA (818) 354-4847
				e-mail steele@telerobotics.jpl.nasa.gov
From: rreid@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ralph W. Reid III)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: thought for the day (12-14)
Date: 15 Dec 92 09:00:16 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico

Monday, December 14:

     Do you, then, want to have no fear of the authority?  Keep doing
good, and you will have praise from it.  <Romans 13: 3>

-- 
Ralph.  N6BNO.  NOW LOOKING FOR A JOB!
Phone 1-916-345-9155.
lectromail- rreid@ecst.csuchico.edu.
I do not waste time expressing others' opinions!
From: Steve.Hayes@f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Satan's fall from Heaven
Date: 20 Dec 92 22:13:48 GMT

On <13 Dec 1992 10:28> David Harwood (5:7104/2) said to All :

 DH>In article <Dec.9.01.15.08.1992.7843@geneva.rutgers.edu> 
 DH>huber@acsu.buffalo.edu (James G Huber) writes:
 DH>>
 DH>>     Enlighten me! I need to know how and when you, the devout 
 DH>Christians
 DH>>you are, believe Satan fell from Heaven. BRIEFLY, yet 
 DH>informatively describe how you, as Christians, believe he fell. 
 DH> This could come in very handy for my    Anthropology paper 
 DH>(due 12/11/92). Any cooperation would be greatly appreciated. 

Sorry, I missed the original of this, so my reply is for the original poster.

"Satan" is not a name, but a noun, and means "accuser". He is the public 
prosecutor (US = District Attorney?) in court. See Job 1 & Zechariah 3.

The job of the prosecutor is to see that charges are brought against 
criminals, but ambitious prosecutors might get their values distorted, and 
think that the most important thing is the conviction rate. It is better that 
the innocent should suffer than that the guilty should escape. This malaise 
affects Satan too, and in fact he could be said to be the archetype of it. 

Satan, as the prosecutor, is a stickler for God's justice, but overlooks God's 
mercy, and therefore perverts justice. He thinks God is too soft on sinners, 
and that he can do a better job of being God than God himself (this is very 
clear in Zech 3). 

When Jesus is tried, he is found guilty of blasphemy in the local court (the 
Jewish one). He is found guilty of sedition in the Roman colonial court. He 
is sentenced to death, and the sentence is carried out. 

But in the court of final appeal, Jesus is vindicated. Again, Zechariah 3, 
interpreted typologically ("Jesus" is simply the Greek form of "Joshua") 
shows what happened. The verdicts of the lower courts are reversed (see Acts 
2, where Peter says "this Jesus, whom YOU crucified, God has made both Lord 
and Christ"). Not only are the VERDICTS reversed, but the SENTENCE as well - 
Jesus is raised from the dead.

So the Satan loses his case. But he loses more than his case, he loses his 
job. Michael, the court orderly, throws him out of court (Revelation 12). Why 
Michael? Why not Jesus? Because Jesus is not in heaven at that point. He is on 
earth, on the cross, dying. 

If a human prosecutor shows such zeal for convictions, and is caught out 
trying to press false charges, a just judge will disbar him, and see that he 
does not practise again. It would be quite conceivable in such a case that 
once outside the court he would threaten the accused (now aquitted), his 
friends and family, and swear to get them. This is what happens in the 
biblical account too. Satan is thrown out of court, out of heaven, but "woe 
to you earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in a great rage, 
knowing that his time is short". So Satan has sworn to "get" Jesus, and anyone 
associated with him. Hell hath no fury like an ex-prosecutor who has lost his 
job. Or, to be more precise, that is exactly the kind of fury that hell hath.
From: nichael@bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: PIPI
Date: 21 Dec 92 00:29:08 GMT
Reply-To: ncramer@bbn.com
Organization: BBN, Cambridge MA

A bit of pre-holiday amusement:

   Subject: Re: PPYE  (was Re: YHWH)
   >>> "I AM THAT I AM"
   Jeff West writes
   >Or, "I ams what I ams!"
   >	- Popeye
   > [...]

Those following this thread saw how the string "YHWH" transmogrified
into the string "PPYE".  This is interesting in that this form has a
very near ancestor in the history of Greek text of the Bible.

As most of you probably know, the Hebrew for "YHWH" looks something
like the following (making allowances for Ascii):

    ******  **    *****  **
         *    *       *    *
    *    *    *   *   *    *
    *    *    *   *   *    *
    *    *    *   *   *
    *    *    *   *   *
   **    *    *  **   *

or (reading from right to left) YOD-HEH-VAW-HEH.

Now, among some early Greek manuscripts of the Bible it was common
practice to leave certain holy words in the original Hebrew; this was
most commonly done with the divine name YHWH.

However, as time progressed, fewer and fewer of the scribes could be
expected to know the original Hebrew and consequently the (Greek-
speaking) scribes gradually (and probably unconsciously) began to
replace the letters of the Hebrew with forms with which they were more
familiar[*].

In particular, the above Hebrew spelling of YHWH gradually took on a
orthographically "similar", pseudo-greek spelling as:

    ******  *  *****  *
    *    *  *  *   *  *
    *    *  *  *   *  *
    *    *  *  *   *  *
    *    *  *  *   *  *
    *    *  *  *   *  *
    *    *  *  *   *  *

which, in the final stages, came to be read as the greek PI-IOTA-PI-
IOTA.  And specifically there is some indication that in some cases
the divine name came to be pronounced in some cases as "PIPI".

So, all in all, Jeff may not be that far off.     ;)

   [* This practice --of replacing "foreign" characters with more
      familiar characters-- is quite common, of course.  A common
      occurance in English is the transformation of the signum "IHS"
      into the English letters eye-aitch-ess, whereas in fact they are
      the first three greek letters of the name "Jesus" (i.e.
      iota-eta-sigma).]

Nichael                  "... and they opened their thesaurus and 
ncramer@bbn.com        offered him gold and frankincense and myrrh."
From: isc10144@nusunix1.nus.sg (CHAN NICODEMUS)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Computer Game Onesimus: Info wanted
Date: 13 Dec 92 05:13:24 GMT
Organization: National University of Singapore

Can someone inform me where I can get this game?
And also information about it i.e. the producers, company etc.





Nicodemus Chan,
Department of Information Systems and Computer Science,
National University of Singapore.
E-Mail : isc10144@nusunix.nus.sg | channico@iscs.nus.sg
From: scott@clmqt.marquette.MI.US (Scott Reynolds)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: There is no god
Date: 20 Dec 92 23:37:13 GMT

In <Dec.15.03.59.45.1992.4881@geneva.rutgers.edu>
	county!davem@lmt.mn.org (David Mackmiller) writes:

>How can you explain love *AND* the existence of god?  Explain death, 
>torture, suffering, disease, hemmaroids, famine, war, etc and tell me in the 
>same breath how an all-powerful and all-loving god can allow it to exist.  

A loving God, like a loving father, will allow his children to make
mistakes and experience "real" life even if it means that the children
turn away from everything they've been taught.  An all-powerful, all-
loving God has the ability to eradicate all of those things that you
suppose to be against your concept of justice, but at what expense?  I
submit to you that we could only develop to a small extent (if at all)
those qualities which make us most precious to God, as well as each
other:  compassion, sacrificial love, humility, and patience spring to
mind.
--
scott@clmqt.marquette.MI.US       |      Ich bin ein Virus.  Mach' mit und
Scott Reynolds                  --+--    kopiere mich in Deine .signature.
Enterprise Information System     |
"My Lord and my God!" Jn 20:28    |
From: jmrg9881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Reid)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Does God intervene?
Date: 16 Dec 92 06:43:55 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

news@cbnewsk.att.com writes:

In article <Dec.11.02.08.03.1992.13588@athos.rutgers.edu> sungho@crhc.uiuc.edu (Sungho Kim) writes:

> I would like to hear from Christians on the following problem.
> I see innocent victims suffer and die all over the world and see that 
> God does not do anything about it.  So I conclude he does not intervene 
> and therefore does not respond to prayers either.  What I am saying is
> he is aware of everything but decided leave everything to us.
> So, I see no point in asking God for mercy when one is sick.

It's important to realize that the kingdom of God is not here in its
fullness.  This world is in a state of war, with Satan and his angels
opposing God, the Creator and Lord of all.  Sin, sickness, and death were
brought upon this world by the evil one.  Jesus came to overthrow the
enemy, establish the kingdom of God, and set people free.

The conclusion has been determined by Jesus' death and resurrection.  Yet
people are still bound by the enemy.  An analogy that may be helpful is
that D-Day broke the back of the Nazi forces and determined the war's
outcome, but it took a lot of "cleaning up" before the end was realized.
In the same way, Jesus' victory on the cross has defeated the enemy and his
work, but there is still "cleaning up" to be done to undo the damage.

God *does* intervene.  I have prayed for the sick and seen them healed.  I
have received prayer myself and been healed.  There have also been times
when I prayed and the person was *not* healed.  There may be different
reasons for this, but I think ultimately it's because the spiritual war is
determined but not finished.  But I'm glad that when I pray, *some* people
are healed -- it's a lot better than when I didn't pray!

God *does* intervene.  In a practical sense, many Christians are deists and
consider God to be "watching from up there".  But this is contrary to all
of Scripture, and to the gospel message itself.  Jesus Christ came to set
captives free.  He said to his disciples, "The kingdom of God is within
you."  This is the key to his strategy -- he wants to advance his kingdom
through people whose hearts are open and obedient to him, not just by
"zapping" the world.  Miracles such as healing happen when his people learn
to cooperate with him in his supernatural rescue mission.

-- 
Jon Reid    j-reid@uiuc.edu    GEnie: THE.REIDS
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose."
From: mjsmith@cac.washington.edu (Martha Smith )
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Seeking Advice: Friends and self
Date: 16 Dec 92 07:12:40 GMT
Organization: UW Computing

To claim that one can do as one pleases is based upon the belief that
there are no absolute values - equivalent to believing one is not
subject to physical laws (like gravity).  Most people who think they
hold this position when confronted with mass murder or some other
extreme example will admit that there are at least human values
(shared by humanity) if not absolute values.  This can at least
provide a starting point for a productive conversation