HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: francis@dogwood.atl.ga.us (John Stracke)
Subject: Re: Image (was Re: Continuing Time)
Organization: National Science Center Foundation
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:36:21 GMT
	<FRANCIS.92Aug27165324@galois.dogwood.atl.ga.us>
	<3022@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU>

In article <3022@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU> stong@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (Simon Tong) writes:

>What do people think of Moran's concept of using an "image" like 
>Ralf and Johnny Johnny to represent a human in a computer 
>network ?  
>
>This is slightly different from Gibson's idea of a person being 
>'inside' a matrix him/herself.  Do you think Moran's version is 
>more attainable ?

Try "attainable", period--Gibson's idea is not practical, simply on
the grounds that brains think too slowly.  If a human (or genie) went
into the Crystal Wind alone, the natives (web angels, AIs), could tear
hir to shreds.  The Image reacts with the speed of the Wind.  At the
same time, guided by a human mind, it avoids the flexibility
difficulties that would probably plauge the ferrets in Brin's _Earth_.
(Also, with a human hand at the controls, as it were, it's much less
likely to run away from home as Ring did.)

--
/===========================================================================\
|John (Francis) Stracke         |My opinions are my own.                    |
|Natl. Science Center Foundation|===========================================|
|Augusta, GA                    |Belief is not relevant to truth.           |
|francis@galois.nscf.org        |  -- Von Neumann ??                        |
\===========================================================================/
(Formerly francis@dogwood.atl.ga.us,francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu)
-- 
/===========================================================================\
|John (Francis) Stracke         |My opinions are my own.                    |
|Natl. Science Center Foundation|===========================================|
|Augusta, GA                    |Belief is not relevant to truth.           |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Tarot sf and fantasy
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 04:12:31 GMT

kennethm@terminus.gatech.edu (Kenneth Moorman) writes:

>Another novel I haven't seen mentioned yet is 
>_The Labyrinth Gate_ by Alis A. Rasmussen.  I'm about 90 percent
>through with; it's fairly good.

>			- Kenneth Moorman (kennethm@cc.gatech.edu)

Minor nit here.  While the book is substantially based on a card deck, and a
very interesting one at that, it is not Tarot.

              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)
From: fuller@athena.cs.uga.edu (James P. H. Fuller)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Terminology
Date: 2 Sep 92 20:16:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: athena.1992Sep2.201638.2609
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

Robert.Turner@brunel.ac.uk (Robert Turner) writes:


>Hardware	Machinery
>Software	Programs
>Wetware	Biological Software
>
>Are there any other ?ware items around the fictional universe that I
>have missed?  Is there a term for optical machines? Am I going mad?

     There's vaporware, which 99% of the cyberpunk stuff is....
From: rod@cats.ucsc.edu (Rodrick Su)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Continuing Time
Keywords: Continuing Time Trent Long Run
Date: 27 Aug 92 14:32:18 GMT
Organization: Tigana Restoration Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


In article <BtMMuG.83C@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ndj20710@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Nathan D. Johnson) writes:
>Trent's escape, in my opinion, was made by taking a hologram of the wall, a
>typically boring _non-moving_ subject, and then cutting a hole in the wall with his nifty knife-thing[I have GOT to get those books back] and projecting the
>image of the untouched wall over the hole. Then Trent can just step through the
>hole, and astound the PKF. Notice: There was a hologram projector in the room,
>as we know from the previous scene there. Trent has used the cut-a-hole-and-
>walk-through-it method for escape before. 
>
>Well that ended up being longer and less coherent than I had hoped for.
>{condensed version: Trent enters room. Trent takes hologram of wall. Trent cuts
>hole in wall. Trent projects hologram over hole. PKF enters room. Trent smiles.
>trent walks through hole{looks like Trent walks through wall}. PKF jaws drop.
>Trent runs like hell.}


	Except there is one problem.  Prior to the scene, Trent was heading 
	up an elevator.  PKF have basically have him, as they knows where he
	is heading.  Thus the guards were posted outside the shaft to
	capture him.  Trent himself was astonished at the fact that no guard
	was outside when he got out of the lift.  He also heard the joyous
	shouts of PKFs that 'We got him'.  Why not go and see the fun?  That
	was what the guards outside the lift did, and left their post wide
	open.  He then proceed onto his less than sane of escape, original
	plan.  I don't think Trent have enough time for the things you said.
	also, had it simply been a holographic wall, Trent's act wouldn't have
	been classified as a mirical.  Remember that there are well over 30 
	PKF and some 10 Elite.  Someone is bound to try to touch the wall.

	As for been seeing entering the room, that can also bee accomplish
	with hologram as well.  Remember RtWaP's goal is to create a
	diversion for Trent, and he will have to make people think for a
	while.

-- 
[ Rodrick Su           ]-----------------------------------------------------] 
[----------------------[ A bomb lives only as it is falling.		     ] 
[ rod@cats.ucsc.edu    ]------------------------[ ``Use of Weapons''         ] 
[ rod@ucscb.ucsc.edu   ]------------------------[   Iain M. Banks            ]
From: chuq@gallant.apple.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Upcoming Books till June
Date: 1 Sep 92 00:13:39 GMT
Organization: I is a writur

dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>Asimov, Forward the Foundation, Doubleday Foundation, coll/HC, Apr
>	More and more of Asimov's future publications will be
>	collaborative efforts, I suspect.

Not to be TOO picky, but more and more of his future publications will
probably be posthumous completions and works from outlines and notes. I
doubt the Good Doctor will be too active a collaborator these days.

>Bujold, The Spirit Ring, Baen HC, Nov

A new fantasy from Bujold. Yum

>Deitz, Dreambuilder, AvoNova, Oct
>	The sequel to "Soulsmith", I assume.

Yup.

>Elliott, Kate, Sword of Heaven #1: An Earthly Crown, Mar
>	Sword of Heaven #2: His Conquering Sword, DAW, Apr
>	Is this in the "Jaran" universe?

I don't belive so. Start of a new fantasy series.

>Holt, Tom, Flying Dutch, Ace, Jun

Which I've read, and which really whelmed me. Oh, well.

>Kay, Guy Gavriel, A Song for Arbonne, Random House/Crown HC, Jan
>	Kay's new book takes place in a Europe in which Christianity
>	never took hold, and the classical past was lost.

Double yum.

>Kurtz, Katherine, King Javan's Year, BB/Dr HC, Dec
>	Do I want to read this and get depressed?

yes. you're fun to watch depressed, Dani... (snicker. joke! joke!)

>	at this sore.  No, on second thought, I do.  It's because Lackey
>	writes books I enjoy greatly -- when she isn't trying to write ten
>	books at once.  I can't fault her self-interest, but neither do I 
>	have to like it.

Neither will you have to worry about it much longer, since it's being scaled
back. A lot of good projects appeared at once, and she almost killed herself
getting them out. She's scaling back to a sustainable pace (on the other
hand, she and Larry still write fast enough to make us mortal writers green
with envy...)

>MacAvoy, King of the Dead, AvoNova, Dec
>	I haven't a clue why this is a sequel to "Lens of the World",
>	instead of being a stand-alone novel. LotW certainly didn't
>	need a sequel.

Sequels sell, of course....

>Niven and Pournelle, The Gripping Hand, Pocket HC, Feb
>	Looking forward to this!

Yeah. Jerry keep saying really positive things about it. 

>Williams, Tad, To Green Angel Tower, DAW HC, Mar

They've scheduled it? Damn. He better get the damn thing finished, then.

-- 
Chuq "IMHO" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX) =+= Member, SFWA
  chuq@apple.com | GEnie: MAC.BIGOT | ALink:CHUQ =+= Editor, OtherRealms
	A real SF writur with stories in ALTERNATE KENNEDYS and THE 
	  FURTHER ADVENTURES OF BATMAN, in better bookstores now!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup)
Subject: Re: COVINGTON CROSS
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 06:01:30 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.155326.9455@pbhya.PacBell.COM> whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
>In article <1992Aug31.210108.16306@pica.army.mil> SteveWall@aol.com (Steve Wall) writes:
>>Let me try a more diplomatic version of this question.  Could someone in the
>>Societ for Creative Anachronism (SCA) form a new newsgroup by the name
>>of rec.history.reenacted (or whatever...)?  This thread has really strayed a 
>>little far from the 'rec.arts.sf.written' subject matter.

There never was any, as far as I saw.

>The problem is actually one of mildly questionable cross-posts.  There
>*is* an SCA-specific newsgroup: rec.org.sca, and Covington Cross has
>been discussed there at some length.

Yeah, but it should be crossposted to rec.arts.sf.tv and not
rec.arts.sf.written.

How about just confining the discussion to rec.org.sca and rec.arts.sf.tv?

In other words, please take discussions about TV-shows where they belong!

Greetings,
--Mike

-- 
#include <std-disclm.h>--"... and there is a small flaw in my character."---
Real Life: Michael Christian Heide Qvortrup      A Dane         ETH, Zuerich
e-mail   : qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch                  abroad         Switzerland
Institut fuer wissenschaftliches Rechnen  /  Inst. of Scientific Computation
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: novak@wri.com (John M. Novak)
Subject: Re: What are the best fantasy books involving dragons?
Organization: Wolfram Research, Inc.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 21:09:26 GMT

I was surprised at how few books have been mentioned; then I browsed through my
collection, and discovered that there are very few books that really focus on
dragons.

All of the ones that I could come up with have already been mentioned; though I
did locate one that someone remembered (sorry, don't have the attribution) but
couldn't remember the authors:
Byron Preiss, Michael Reaves, and Jospeh Zucker: _Dragonworld_

I came up with a few with dragons as characters:
Christopher Stasheff: _Her Majesty's Wizard_
Joel Rosenberg: _The Guardians of the Flame_ (series)
Carol L. Dennis: _Dragon's Pawn_ (unfortunately, don't remember whether
			this one is any good)
Gael Baudino: _Dragonsword_, _Duel of Dragons_, _Dragon Death_ (the dragon
			is fairly incidental here)

Then there are the dragons that are really just people re-written with scales:
Thorarinn Gunnarsson: _Make Way for Dragons!_, _Human, Beware!_

This probably isn't quite what you are looking for, but is excellent anyhow:
R.A. MacAvoy: _Tea with the Black Dragon_

Then there are the old 'Let's go draon hunting' stories:
Craig Mills: _The Bane of Lord Caladon_
J.R.R. Tolkein: _Farmer Giles of Ham_
Rick Shelley: _The Varayan Memoir_ (series; dragons are relatively minor
			in the story, but the hero does kill a couple of them...)
Wayland Drew: _Dragonslayer_  (bad book version of a bad movie)

Others are harder to classify:
Elizabeth Scarborough: _The Drastic Dragon of Draco, Texas_
Andre Norton: _Dragon Magic_
David Gerrold: _Chess with a Dragon_ (well, not really, but I liked the
			book anyhow.)

Then there are always short dragon stories scattered throughout Marion Zimmer
Bradley's _Sword and Sorceress_ anthologies, many of them quite good...

Hope this gives you something to read!
--John N.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
John M. Novak												novak@wri.com
My opinions are my own; licensing available for reasonable fees!  :-)
From: markbr@radian.UUCP (Mark Roth)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: McCrumb (emphasis on the Crumb)
Date: 25 Aug 92 18:06:35 GMT

Geof Knobl wrote a defense of McCrumb, pointing out the intent was satire.
Well, yes, but there are different kinds of satire, and different intents.
As an example, there is the satire, as he mentions, that intends us to
laugh at ourselves. Then there is the kind used in the ancient world (both
in Europe & the Americas), where the object of the satire was basically
intended to be destroyed: to lose their political power, to even be driven
to suicide. McCrumb's satire is *not* let's laugh at ->ourselves<-, its 
let's laugh at these weirdos. This opinion is confirmed by a friend who
was a personal friend of the McCrumb, and who says that her attitude is
the "superior" one, and that she has done this elsewhere, as well. He also
tells us that at the time this was written, she had attended ->one<-, 
small con. 

Further, was it not obvious that, except for her lead female character,
her intended SO, and maybe one other person, there was NO ONE who was NOT
a jerk, obnoxious, etc.? (And lest you think that my friend is biased, my
friend is a)not a fan, per se, and b) is the original of one of the few
non-jerks in the story.)

	mark
-- 
/*___________________________________________________________________________*
 *  1.     How *DARE* you attribute these opinions to anyone else!           *
 *  2.     Would *you* claim opinions like these if they *weren't your own?  *
 *					                                     *
 *          	       	markbr@radian                                        *
 *___________________________________________________________________________*/
Etymology, n.:
	Some early etymological scholars come up with derivations that
were hard for the public to believe.  The term "etymology" was formed
from the Latin "etus" ("eaten"), the root "mal" ("bad"), and "logy"
("study of").  It meant "the study of things that are hard to swallow."
		-- Mike Kellen
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: Are the Moties us?
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 20:39:30 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Aug26.120429.23652@cs.ruu.nl> rkunenbo@cs.ruu.nl (Ronald Kunenborg) writes:
>In <1992Aug24.235820.16903@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Aug20.112541.20278@cs.ruu.nl> rkunenbo@cs.ruu.nl (Ronald Kunenborg) writes:
>>>In <1992Aug20.000415.17392@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:


>>>>Well, first  off, twins was just a simple example.  Are you really
>>>>claiming that a geneticly based desire to have many kids is
>>>>impossible?

>>>I am. Or rather, it is extremely unlikely that such a complex desire
>>>is a) genetically codable and b) so strong that cultural influences and
>>>conscious decisions have no effect whatsoever.

>>and b, please don't use straw men.  Of course cultural influences and
>>concious decisions can have effects.  I never denied this.  So what?
>>All you need is a genetic predisposition.  That gives you all the
>>evolutionary advantage you need.

>Does it? As long as cultural pressure outweighs the predisposition,
>it won't help you at all.

Wrongo.  Let's say that it's 75% nurture and 25% nature and that the
only choices are 5 kids or 1 kid.  (To make the math simple, let's
assume couples check with eachj other and only marry people whose
decision they agree with.)

We start with 200 people with the WMK (want more kids) gene and 200
with the WLK (want less kids) gene.  Let's assume that nurture is
50-50 - in other words, if nature had no effect then we would have 50%
of the people with 10 kids and 50% with 2 kids.

200 WMKs.  50 have 10 kids because of nature, 75 because of nurture.
75 have onne kid because of nurture.  Generation 2, 1325 WMKs.

200 WLKs.  50 have 1 kids because of nature, 75 because of nurture.
75 have 10 kids because of nurture.  Generation 2, 875 WLKs.

Notice that despiete the 75/25 nurture vs. nature that we hypothesized
the trait is still a significan advantage.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
From: DAVIS@licra.dn.mu.oz.au
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Katherine Kerr's Polar City Blues
Date: 24 Aug 92 00:13:18 GMT
Organization: Ludwig Institute for Cancer Research

In article <1992Aug20.200526.10151@cas.org>, lgs57@cas.org writes:
> I recently read Katherine Kerr's Polar City Blues.  I enjoyed it very much.  I
> especially liked the treatment of aliens and psychics.  Did anyone else read
> it and what did you think?  Would you call it a suspense SF novel?
> ________________________________________________________
> Linda Siemsen
> All opinions expressed therein are solely my own and not those of my employer.
> Current Book:  You Just Don't Understand: Women and Men in Conversation

Well, I must say I was disappointed with this one, especially since I enjoy 
her fantasy so much.  I kept on with it though, but she lost me towards the 
end (and I don't think that this is a spoiler at all!) when during a 
deep-space chase (!) one of the characters says something like,

"They're gaining on us, they just successfully completed that tricky 
manoeuvre around that derelict satellite aft!"

The pain was almost too much to bear....


Ian Davis                                        DAVIS@licr.dn.mu.oz.au
Ludwig Institute for Cancer Research
Melbourne Tumour Biology Branch
Melbourne, Australia.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: wangc@cpsc.UCalgary.ca (Carol Wang)
Subject: Re: David Brin - What is he up to?
Organization: The University of Calgary
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 00:18:32 GMT

In article <1720r5INN3b5@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> rod@cats.ucsc.edu (Rodrick Su) writes:
   In article <1992Aug21.045056.12952@smsc.sony.com> tucker@smsc.sony.com (Tim Tucker) writes:
   >    Does anyone out their have the scoop on what Brin is doing these days?  I
	   Sorry to disappoint you.  The next Brin novel will be Stratos, a
   non-uplift novel.  The next uplift novel might be Sooner.
brin guested at a local con i attended last month, and he said
"stratos" is now "the glory season".  it is complete but i don't know
whether it will be out in hardcover or not first 8(.  he supposedly
was following a pattern of one light(ie. ?), one heavy (aka earth,
postman), and one uplift.  the glory season was supposed to be light,
but has ended up a very thick book.  he is now rereading "startide
rising" because the next book he writes will be a sequel (how direct,
and will we ever find out what happens to the crew, etc. i don't know)
called "the brightness reef". 

carol
From: STANDARD@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (* PF05 UNDEFINED)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: SF-LOVERS Digest   V17 #430
Date: 2 Sep 92 12:40:44 GMT

To:  Saul Jaffe, SFL Moderator.

I'm afraid I need your help.  I've deleted the original subscription message so
 I can't recall the listserv address required to do a nomail or a signoff.
Could you possibly send that node address to me?

Thanks,

        Thomas Kirkpatrick
        Standard@UGA.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: sef@kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan)
Subject: Re: Continuing Time
Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd.
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1992 19:40:13 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.131048.16738@rp.CSIRO.AU> etroup@robin.rp.csiro.au (Euan Troup, AT Parkes.) writes:
>(Hey -
>I've just noticed a quote here which says that miracles occur only among people
>disposed to believe in miracles - and the PKF are mostly Catholic

You know... I just read that quote last night, and wasn't able to figure out
what it was doing there.  Now it makes a *lot* of sense.

Okay, so I'm *slow*.  I still think it was a *very* nice touch to the feel
of the story.

-- 
Sean Eric Fagan  | "You can't get lost in one room, no matter how
sef@kithrup.COM  |  little effort you make to learn your way around."
-----------------+    -- William E Davidsen (william@crd.GE.COM)
Any opinions expressed are my own, and generally unpopular with others.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science
From: ndj20710@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Nathan D. Johnson)
Subject: Re: Continuing Time
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 02:30:04 GMT

francis@dogwood.atl.ga.us (John Stracke) writes:
>I checked last night, and he had indeed lost (or used up) the glue.
>See page 356.  (As rare as this book is, I'm assuming there aren't
>multiple publications of it.) He had the emblade, a spraytube of
>fadeaway, a sonic bomb, and a spool of fineline.  No glue.

>OK, what do you guys think? This would seem to make it difficult to
>impossible to believe the hologram-of-a-wall idea, since, as someone
>pointed out, there were too many people there not to notice a hole cut
>in the wall (also, somebody would notice eventually, right? ;-).  The
>voiceprint problem is the only explanation *I* can think of for
>Trent's silence (this is the guy who, with a PKF Elite [Garon]
>standing a few meters away, said "Catch me if you can"--not someone
>naturally inclined to shut up).  I think I'm back to the
>hologram-of-Trent idea.

As I said, I don't have my copy of the book (they've been in Southern Illinois
for a year now) so page references help me not at all [feel free to include
them for the rest of the world though] I'll take your word for it on any
contents that I don't specifically remember differently, and those to if you
check first.
I am not sure that the discovering of the hole would be a problem in the grand
scheme. First of all, when the PKF first saw it, they believed it was for real,
and subsequently returned to chasing Trent. Why would they have continued into
the room? They couldn't walk through the wall. Second, the news was obviously
spread relatively quickly, since the captain/pilot/whatever of the Jack of
Shadows heard about it ( he asks Trent about it when Trent wakes up I think )
And all that is really neccesary for the story to stick is for some outside
person to hear it and believe it. It seems quite plausible that someone might
have sent a message on an unsecured channel right after the incident. But there
would be no reason for the truth,, when discovered to be announced to the
world, so if a free-lunie hears a shocked PKFer say Trent had  walked through
a wall, and the government, which isn't trusted on Earth, and is distrusted on
the moon, later gives a plausable story, but only after much delay, what is
the free-lunie to believe?
The two big problems that I have with the hologram of Trent problem, which I
will need answers to before I can consider your solution, are:
1  Where is Trent after he leaves the elevator?
2  Why does he make the comment about how far it is from the meeting room to
the airlock?
I would look at these in context more, to see if I could find a solution, but
I don't have my copy.
	Nate.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written