HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tnev2@isuvax.iastate.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hearing Protectors - HELP
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:46:27 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa

In article <53061@mimsy.umd.edu>, gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes:

#Note that "dB" noise reduction ratings are generally for CONTINUOUS
#sound, and the reduct of IMPACT noise may be significantly less.
#Sonic Ear Valves are an example of a design that attempts to reduce
#impact noise more than continuous noise, although I have heard that
#they are not adequate for protection from gunshot noise.  Electronic
#hearing protectors often provide an alternative implementation of
#this notion, some even amplifying continuous low-level noise to aid
#hunters etc.
#

I have a pair of those "Sonic Ear Valves".  I used them once.  Once.  And then,
ears ringing like bells, I put in a pair of real ear plugs and fired the other
five rounds in the revolver (.38).  For what it's worth, those simple,
disposable foam plugs (many different makes) always seemed to do the best job
for me.  
			-CJ
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .38 & .357 (Was Re: Is a .22 a humane weapon? (No.))
Date: 7 Apr 92 22:31:25 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <52679@mimsy.umd.edu>, by dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk (Codesmiths):
# # Similarly, the .38 and .357 pistol rounds are the same diameter.
# # (.356 inches, contrasting with 9mm and .380, which are both .354 inches.
# 
# That much I knew, but can anyone tell me *why* .38 became known as
# that ?  Historically, which came first ? .357 or .38 ?
#

If I remember correctly, it happened when they went from the
"heel" (?) bullets that were used with blackpowder and started
putting the full diameter bullet inside the case, at least it
sounds about right.  (look at a .22 rimfire for a heel bullet) 
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas More)
From: geraldg@spud.sps.mot.com (Gerald Garcia)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Progressive reloader recommendations
Date: 16 Apr 92 13:12:31 GMT
Organization: Motorola, Inc. - Austin, TX

I plan purchase a progressive reloader with the features and
price of a Dillon 550.  I am interested in recommendations and/or
experiences with the Dillon, as well as units of comparable capability.
I will mainly load .45 ACP, but would also like the ability to load
7.62 NATO and .30-06.  I am also looking for information on shotshell
reloaders (progressive).
I will post a summary if that interest is noted in the responses mailed
to me.  Thank you for your opinions.

Regards,
Gerald

		[Insert standard disclaimer here]
-- 
Gerald W. Garcia, P.E. N5UMB            Motorola Inc., MD: TX30/OE37
Senior Design Engineer                  6501 Wm. Cannon Dr. West
geraldg@oakhill.sps.mot.com             Austin, TX 78735-8598
(512) 891-2806 (voice)                  (512) 891-8315 (fax)
From: cash@convex.com (Peter Cash)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: mini 14 info: thanks
Date: 10 Apr 92 02:19:07 GMT
Organization: The Instrumentality

Thanks to the many folks who responded to my questions about the Mini-14.
It appears I have the new "Ranch Rifle" model with the 1 in 7 rifling twist
that will handle the heavier bullets.

Interestingly enough, the comments I obtained about accuracy varied
wildly: everything from "6 inches at 100 yards" to "1 or 2 inches at 200
yards". Either there's a lot of variability in Mini-14s, or in the quality
of the shooters on the net, or some people exagerrate a little. (Nah!)

Judging from most of the comments, this is not a rifle I want to enter the
local bench rest match with. Some caustic soul even asserted that the
Mini-14 is only good for shooting large vegetables at 50 yards (you know
who you are, John 8^)

I now only have one problem: it seems that my local outdoor range will not
allow me to shoot FMJ ammo because of the danger of ricochets. This lets
out the cheap Norinco that everyone says is OK. I checked, and soft-point
ammo is $12-14 a box of 20. Yikes!  Looks like I'll _have_ to reload.

Unless I go to the local _indoor_ range, which--strangely enough--allows
FMJ. If the FMJ is a no-no at the outdoor range, how can it be safe
indoors? Go figure.

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             |      Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist.     |
Peter Cash   |       (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein)      |cash@convex.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: dragon@odin.unomaha.edu (Troy Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Post Script Targets
Date: 6 Apr 92 12:57:54 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha

Well, I had fun sighting in my new gun this weekend and now I got it
roughly going where I point :-).  Any how I once saw some-guy (tm)
posting a thank-you to a bunch of people about receiving some 
post-script targets.  I never saw the posts though, and so I must
ask if any-one can mail them to me or tell me of a place I can 
ftp them.  


Thank you
troy

dragon @ odin.unomaha.edu
     or
troy @ zeus.unomaha.edu
From: unr!pyramid.unr.edu!malc@uunet.UU.NET (Malcolm L. Carlock)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Indoor range backstops
Date: 16 Apr 92 13:12:39 GMT
Organization: Xinaian Tourist Bureau


About 25 years ago, my Granddad built an outdoor backstop (still in regular
use) consisting of a piece of yard-square 1/4" steel plate, mounted onto a
wooden frame and pointing 45 degrees downward.  The backstop is situated
over a foot-deep hole filled level with sand, which is sifted periodically
to recover lead for reloading.

If I myself were going to build a small indoor range, I'd (at the moment)
consider following this model, with maybe a little larger plate, and the
wall behind the backstop covered with more conventional "bullet-absorbing"
material to catch any really wide misses (which would hopefully be rare or
nonexistent..)

Anyone have an opinion on this strategy?
--
Malcolm L. Carlock                      Internet:  malc@unr.edu
                                        UUCP:      unr!malc
                                        BITNET:    malc@equinox
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: resizing .223 for Mini-14
Date: 11 Apr 92 23:44:05 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

Its my understanding that you have to resize the whole case for all semi-autos.
If your mini-14 is the newer 1 in 7 twist, try using the Sierra 63 gr. soft-
point bullet. I have found it to yeild the best accuracy out of my AR-15s
that have the 1 in 7 twist.
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Speaking of tapes....
Date: 16 Apr 92 13:12:04 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <53179@mimsy.umd.edu>, by bbx!bbx.basis.com!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler):
# 
# In article <53129@mimsy.umd.edu> btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale) writes:
# #A really good look at what happens when a car is shot up is in the
# #Dillon videotape titled "Machine Gun Magic".  This is a tape that
# #should be seen by anyone with any interest (positive or negative)
# #in guns.
# 
# The tape is a real blast.  Get one as soon as you can spare the $$$ -
# get a bunch of friends together if you can't afford one yourself.
#

Does anyone have a list of all the tapes about
guns/hunting/reloading, etc. and their prices?

I have seen a _very_ muddy presentation of a debriefing (?) about
the FBI's Miami Shootout and the 2nd Chance tape and one other
which I don't recall specifics about. 
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas More)
From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: "GLOCK" - A Book Review
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:30:51 GMT


skrone@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (stuart.krone) writes:
#>In article <52804@mimsy.umd.edu> hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:
#>#
#>#15 Accessories and Special Stuff [factory and third party items,
#>#    including the much discussed "Amphibious Firing-Pin Spring Cups"
#>#    which allow the Model 17 (only) to be fired underwater.  The
#>
#>Are these available to the gneral public from any source?
#>Did these look easy to manufacture yoursef?

    They do look easy to make, but looking and doing are two different
    things.  Getting any requisite heat tretment on them would be a matter
    of trial and error.  The only way you could make a pair is from scratch,
    or by modifying non-amphib. spring cups.  Since they are part of the
    firing pin mechanism, I'd hate to have them break at a crucial time.

    According to Peter Kasler, amphib. spring cups are restricted sale
    items by Glock, although not due to any legal restrictions.
From: FRAMPTON@skitzo.dseg.ti.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: LOKTITE... red or blue?
Date: 8 Apr 92 20:28:19 GMT



    I forget every time I go to mount a new scope.........

        Which LOKTITE is the right LOKTITE?  I've got red
        and blue.  Which is more permanant?
From: iftccu!bressler@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .357 Home Protection Gun Recommendations Sought
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:31:18 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group


#Point 2: Why use a handgun for home protection? Shotguns are more
#effective and safer. Shotguns scare the hell out of burglars!

Maybe they if they are light weight yuppies!  I've heard it said that
the ka-chunk of a round chambering in a 12 ga would strike fear into
even the stoutest heart.  On the other hand, I've always thought that
the hardened criminal just might think something like:

"Wow, that idiot just realized that he might need a loaded gun!"

#You are much less likely to shoot thru 3 houses and kill Uncle
#Fred's goldfish. Kids are less likely to get in trouble with a
#shotgun in the house. AND it takes less skill to use a scatter-

Try the following experiment.  Set up a target at 7 yards, or if you
like, pick a distance corresponding to the longest straight shot in your
house.  Unless you are Ted Kennedy it will probably be less than 7
yards.  Fire the shotgun load of your choice into the target.  If you
see a hole bigger than couple of inches send me the description of the
load.  I'll market it and we'll both be rich.  Shotgun loads don't
disperse much at typical combat ranges.  The idea of sloppy aiming being
acceptable when using a shotgun is pretty much a fallacy.

#gun. Get a 410ga or go whole hog and get a 20. Remember, all
#those farmers can't be wrong!

A shotgun is far easier to take away from you than a handgun.  A
shotgun is also harder to maneuver in confined areas.

Probably a shotgun does have a place in home defense.  Put it and your
wife behind the bed and tell her to use it if anybody gets past you,
assuming you aren't there with her, which is where you should be, unless
you are rounding up the kids.

IMHO shotguns are the 'heavy artillery' of home defense and probably are
best used from a 'fixed' or defensive position.

Rick.
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Can a woman handle .357 or .45?
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:42:04 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.

In article <53006@mimsy.umd.edu> tporczyk@novell.com (Tony Porczyk) writes:
#
#I just took my girlfriend to the range yesterday for the first time,
#she took a satefy course and then shot (with some additional initial
#instruction) a S&W 686 .357 magnum and a Glock 21 .45 ACP... 
#...In fact, she liked the .45 much more than either 9mm
#or .40S&W, and she scored better with it.

My soon to be 15-year-old daughter likes the SIG .45 she shot better
than the 9mm or .38 she also tried.

She also likes, btw, shooting my new .45-70 Browning Model 1885.
She did, however, have the grace to decide that a bit of padding for
her shoulder was in order after the first shot...the next five were
just fine.  (She pretty much hits what she aims at, too.)

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of making many books there is no end...  |  What's wrong with chasing 
                       -- Eccl. 12:12    |  nebulae till 3 am?  |-(
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .357 Home Protection Gun Recommendations Sought
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:06:45 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <52607@mimsy.umd.edu>, by sybok@m4-035-12.MIT.EDU (The Terminator):
# In article <52601@mimsy.umd.edu> bp816@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stuart Krivis) writes:
# #
# #One thing no one has mentioned...  Don't use handloads for self-
# #defense. They will make you out to be a monster in court if you
# #ever actually have to shoot someone.
# #
# #Point 2: Why use a handgun for home protection? Shotguns are more
# #effective and safer. Shotguns scare the hell out of burglars!
# #You are much less likely to shoot thru 3 houses and kill Uncle
# #Fred's goldfish. Kids are less likely to get in trouble with a
# #shotgun in the house. AND it takes less skill to use a scatter-
# #gun. Get a 410ga or go whole hog and get a 20. Remember, all
# #those farmers can't be wrong! 
# 
#     A handgun is much better in close quarters--long guns can be more easily
#     wrestled away from you, and you are more vulnerable when you swing them
#     through large angles as you tiptoe through the house looking for the perp.
#     Also, if you only have enough money for ONE gun, and you buy a shotgun,
#     forget about ever carrying it for self-defense when something comes up.
#     A handgun can serve both home-defense and self-defense niches.  Finally,
#     you can still operate the handgun if the badguy gets the first shot and
#     takes out one of your arms.  Unless you're Big Arnold, forget about
#     operating your shotgun with one arm.
#

Hmmm, the FBI guy who finally managed to end the gunfight in
Miami didn't look like either Arnold or Superman.  It is pretty
hard to do though (unless you are properly motivated ;-{)  ).
Ideally, I would like a shotgun _and_ a pistol for both my wife
and me.  Failing that, I would like a shotgun and pistol between
the 2 of us and the pistol a revolver with the magnetic ring
setup.
 
# 
# Oh, and if you're steadfast on a shotgun, don't use any kiddy calibers like
# 0.410 or 20-gauge--use a 12-gauge semi-auto with 00 Buck alternated with slugs
# in the magazine. :-)

I don't think I would go with a .410.  I have been considering
one for my mom though, a .410 being the only one she will
consider shooting.

I think a 20 gauge should serve well enough or a 16 gauge.  I
think No. 4 buck would be a better choice than 00 buck from
testing it at the range.
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas More)
From: messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock 21
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:03:41 GMT
Organization: Messina Software

n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del Vecchio) writes:
#dickwin@sequent.com (Dick Winningstad) writes:
# 
#> Anybody used a Glock 21?  I'm thinking of buying one, but would like
#> to hear from happy or sad users first.

# I have never owned one, but I got to shoot a 21 one day.  I was 
# astounded at how great it was.   First:  The same day I shot a 
# variety of Glocks in 9mm, 40 and .45, I shot a Colt Double Eagle 
# Officers .45, a Taurus .38 snub 85, and a Star Firestar .40.
# I left that day with the impression that the 1911 style pistol 
# is a dinosaur.   It was a real eye opener.  I had never been impressed
# with the Glocks untill I got to handle, shoot and field strip
# some.  I couldn't get over how great the Glocks were, 
# especialy the .45.

I agree with every word here.  I was prejudiced against .45 after shooting
Springfield which handled like a piece of junk, unbalanced and throwing
bullets at whichever direction.  I tried Glock 21 just to make sure I didn't
ever want to buy a .45, and I fell in love with that gun.  It is sweeet!
You have to shoot it to appreciate it, though - looks are not its strong
point :-)

Tony
From: kossack@owlnet.rice.edu (Jordan Marc Kossack)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .357 Home Protection Gun Recommendations Sought
Date: 7 Apr 92 22:30:39 GMT
Organization: Rice University

In article <52688@mimsy.umd.edu> jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:
#
#Hmmm, the FBI guy who finally managed to end the gunfight in
#Miami didn't look like either Arnold or Superman.  It is pretty

	If you're referring to "FBI: The Untold Stories" then   
   recall that he was slow and had to use the car bumper as a  
   a rest.  He wasn't able to close in and end hostilities until  
   he rearmed with a handgun.  I guess a shotgun is OK for home 
   defense (against 2-legged predators) iff you stay behind good 
   cover ... like a four door sedan.  :-) 

	Of course, defensive needs are going to vary depending on  
   one's situation.  The concerns of someone living in an urban 
   hi-rise apartment will be different than a rural rancher.   


-- 
Jordan M Kossack  | You're so vain, you probably think this .sig is about you.  
kossack@rice.edu  | You're so vain, I bet you think this .sig is about you. 
 (713) 270-9056   | Don't you?  Don't you?  Don't you?
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bullet & gasoline truck
Date: 13 Apr 92 02:22:31 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant) writes:

#rrw@philabs.philips.com (Roger White) writes:

##In another scene, a fellow selling soft body armour, shoots himself
##point-blank with a .44 mag - no problem and then shoots another fellow
##point-blank with a rifle (I forget the caliber).  The shootee is standing on
##one foot at the time and the impact doesn't even make him lose his balance.

#Its the video by "Second Chance" body armor!
#If its the same one I think it is, they use a .308 rifle to shoot the guy
#at point blank (while on one foot).
#They also dispell other common myths, such as shooting a car that is
#running and showing that the motor does NOT die. They also shoot tires and
#show that they do not "blow up". All in all a very good video.

How do I get this video?  Would someone send me a copy for postage and 
blank video cost?


Jim Del Vecchio
From: rhino@wpi.WPI.EDU (Joseph Rene Trudelle)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: First Pistol
Date: 16 Apr 92 13:12:41 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute

Well from the mail I have gotten so far the Rugar, the Taurus and the Browning
have been eliminated.  Well I never really liked any of them anyway.  The only
gun left on my original list is the High Standard Citation.  Anyone out there 
in net land who has any experiences or opinions about this gun if possible
could you email me some info about what you know?

One thing I forgot to mention in my previous post was that I have had an
extensive experience shooting cartridge firing pistols as well as air.  This
experiece has led to my philosophy that a .22 goes pop, a .357 magnum is a
fun practice gun and a .44 magnum isn't that much of a monster.  I don't want
this to be misinterpreted, I don't mean it as guns are toys, only that in a
number of letters which I recieved I was told that shooting a "regular" gun
would be alot different from an air pistol, a fact that I agree with, but I
would say that that isn't going to be a factor in my choice of a plinker/target
gun.

So any opinions which were expressed previously were of great value and I thank
all who sent me their opinion and if anyone has a comment about the Citation or
about any of the High Standards in general could you email me about it.

Thanks again for any input.

 _L__________________________++   "All is fair in love and war except when
[______________   [__] ]]]   ]     you were trained to shoot by an idiot."
[______________________     ]
                   L J| || |
                   L__| || |
                       | || |      rhino@wpi.wpi.edu
                       | || |
                        | || |
                        |____|
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hearing Protectors - HELP
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:30:54 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Laboratory, APG, MD.


In article <53126@mimsy.umd.edu> pfeiffer@NMSU.Edu writes:
#gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes:
#   Sonic Ear Valves are an example of a design that attempts to reduce
#   impact noise more than continuous noise, although I have heard that
#   they are not adequate for protection from gunshot noise.
#While this is true, my experience with Sonic II ear protectors was not
#good.

I wasn't recommending them!  I mentioned them as an example of why simple
"dB attenuation" ratings aren't always appropriate.

#There's something wrong when the ear protection that works best for me
#is the cheapest thing on the market!

Yeah, those EARS are great!  I borrow cheap muff-style hearing protectors
at the local pistol range, but when one doesn't seem to work well enough
I augment it with EARS or similar foam inserts.
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .357 Home Protection Gun Recommendations Sought
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:04:48 GMT
Organization: gte

In article <52601@mimsy.umd.edu>, bp816@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stuart Krivis) writes:
# 
# One thing no one has mentioned...  Don't use handloads for self-
# defense. They will make you out to be a monster in court if you
# ever actually have to shoot someone.
# 
How so?  In actual fact, the hand loads I use are not as hot as factory
loads, so how could I be called a monster because I like paying half as
much for ammunition?  ('Course, we do live in different areas, but I fail
to see how a handload automatically makes you a murdering monster - even
if it is hot.  .357 magnum is deadly, period.)

-- 
It's a wonderful feeling when you voted for the winner, but the time to vote for
the guy who "could win" is past: vote your conscience - Marrou/Lord in 92!
Andrew Ford INTERNET: gtephx!forda@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
            UUCP: !uunet!samsung!romed!asuvax!gtephx!forda
From: nsc!jrr@decwrl.dec.com (Jerry Roe)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm vs 40S&W - which to choose?
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:04:29 GMT
Organization: National Semiconductor, Santa Clara

In article <52298@mimsy.umd.edu> rsl@well.sf.ca.us (Roy Stuart Levin) writes:
#
#
#Posters comment:
#Again, the efficiency of the .40 has not been verified in real cases.

Well...sort of.  Massad Ayoob, in one of his recent magazine articles
(within the last 2 months or so, but I can't remember which magazine),
did a story on two recent police-involved shootings in which the bad
guys were taken down by the .40.  And "taken down" seems to be the
operative phrase; they ceased hostilities Real Quick, as I recall the
article.  If I remember right (memory's not too good on this, obviously)
he was also comparing the .40 to the 10MM and opined that the .40 was
showing up much more favorably than the 10, primarily because the 10
is just too powerful - far too much penetration (like, all the way
through).  Not to mention muzzle blast and recoil.


Jerry Roe
jrr@nsc.nsc.com		...!{sun,pyramid,decwrl)!nsc!jrr