From: pozar@kumr.lns.com (Tim Pozar)
Newsgroups: comp.org.fidonet
Subject: FidoNet Newsletter, Volume 9, # 39
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:24:17 GMT
Organization: Late Night Software (San Francisco)

F I D O  N E W S --         |        Vol. 9 No. 39 (28 September 1992)
  The newsletter of the     |
  FidoNet BBS community     |        Published by:
          _                 |
         /  \               |       "FidoNews" BBS
        /|oo \              |          (415)-863-2739
       (_|  /_)             |          FidoNet 1:1/1
        _`@/_ \    _        |          Internet: 
       |     | \   \\       |           fidonews@fidonews.fidonet.org
       | (*) |  \   ))      |
       |__U__| /  \//       |        Editors:
        _//|| _\   /        |          Tom Jennings
       (_/(_|(____/         |          Tim Pozar
             (jm)           |
                            |
                            |        Newspapers should have no friends.
                            |                        -- JOSEPH PULITZER
----------------------------+---------------------------------------
Published weekly by and for the Members of the FidoNet international 
amateur network. Copyright 1992, Fido Software. All rights reserved. 
Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes 
only. For use in other circumstances, please contact FidoNews.

Electronic Price:  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   free!
Paper price:   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  $10.00US

For more information about FidoNews refer to the end of this file.
--------------------------------------------------------------------


                          Table of Contents
1. EDITORIAL  .....................................................  1
   Editorial: Yup  ................................................  1
2. ARTICLES  ......................................................  3
   How To Find That File -- ARCHIE-like file server  ..............  3
   Where is FidoNet?  .............................................  4
   WorldPol Credits - An Apology  ................................. 11
   THE TRUTH ABOUT "WorldPol disclaimer"  ......................... 11
   Take Me Off That List!  ........................................ 13
   FidoNet region 25 (UK) exemption policy  ....................... 14
   FidoMess : An Appeal To Rationality  ........................... 18
   More Florida disaster info  .................................... 20
   New BIDBOARD Echo Conference  .................................. 24
   New JOBSNOW109 Echo Conference  ................................ 25
   A New Echo for Suprafax Modem Users  ........................... 25
   New USAFA and USAFAAOG Echo Conferences  ....................... 26
   The Vegetarian Echo  ........................................... 27
   The only genuine "One God" Christian Network  .................. 27
3. FIDONEWS INFORMATION  .......................................... 29
FidoNews 9-39                  Page 1                      28 Sep 1992


======================================================================
                              EDITORIAL
======================================================================

Editorial: Yup

by Tom Jennings (1:1/1)

A rather full and interesting issue this week. Since it's rather long
(30 pages) I'll keep my blather rather short.



If it does what they are saying it does, and I have no reason to doubt
it, an amazing new functionality may be coming to FidoNet: file
servers, like the Internet's ARCHIE. You want a file, but don't know
where to find it? On the Internet, what with a million? hosts (nodes!)
keeping track of who has what file is... daunting at best.  ARCHIE is
a program and system that creates a distributed database of lists of
files. Systems taking part in ARCHIE keep a specially-named and
formatted list of the files available on that system, and various
ARCHIE servers go gather those lists together occasionally. When a
user queries ARCHIE, it can tell you where files you ask for can be
found.

JVArcServ (see article) apparently does at least some of this. I
haven't seen it work, but I hope it goes places. (I always dreamed of
using our echomail mechanisms to do similar things; each "message"
could be a nodelist update, a file list, etc, and systems receiving
the "conference" could process each message then delete them, for
nearly zero overhead. But I digress.)

Good luck, and I hope to see this or something like it in place in
FidoNet!

                        * * * * *

For the record: I have not in the past, do not now, nor will I ever
endorse any "policy" (sic) project, of any revision, nor do I endorse
any of those authors other works, past present and probably future,
including other, possibly unrelated projects. I have never worked with
authors, well-meaning as they are, and I certainly never lent more
than a polite opinion on anyone's projects when, and only, asked.
Responding to informal questions, by the way, is not reason enough to
include my (or anyone elses) name within anyone's document in any way,
for or against.

The above is true of just about every project I've been asked to take
part in in FidoNet. I'm hardly singling anyone out. And doesn't have
anything to do with the merit of the project. I have too many
projects of my own.

FidoNews 9-39                  Page 2                      28 Sep 1992


If someone ever claims "...but Tom Jennings supports it!" Please do
me, and yourself, the favor of asking me, here at 1:1/1 or 1:125/111.


Here's the AMERICAN HERITAGE (Sorry non-USers, once again!) partial
definition of the word 'credit':

    Credit: ... 1. Belief or confidence in the truth of
    something; trust. 2. The quality or or state of being
    trustworthy. 3. A reputation for sound character or quality;
    standing; repute. 7. (Usually plural) An acknowledgement
    of work done, as in the production of... or book.

All of the 20+ senses of the word have similar meanings. Be careful
when you list someone in your "credits" section that you actually have
their permission.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 9-39                  Page 3                      28 Sep 1992


======================================================================
                               ARTICLES
======================================================================


John A. Vink
1:250/318

JVArcServ - a server to locate specified archives.

JVArcServ was first announced in FidoNews Volume 9 Number 25.  Now the
beta testing has been completed and a release version is available.


JVArcServ eliminates your woes in trying to find a certain file, and
eliminates the "does anyone have such and such for file request"
questions in the echos.

JVArcServ is based on the InterNet utility Archie designed at McGill
University in Ontario, Canada.  This utility allows users to locate
programs available via anonymous FTP from sites around the world.
Since there are thousands of anonymous FTP sites around the world,
each one holding several gigabytes of software, this utility was a
great sigh of relief.  There are now eight Archie servers in operation
today.

FTN networks can sometimes give operators the same problems.  There is
lots of software out there available via file requests.  The question
is just "where?".

The server keeps a specially formatted version of each fidonet
system's file list in the network.  Users can then ask questions such
as "Where is this filename," "Find this description," and "Does
anything match this keyword?".

Some other interesting commands are also available such as "List nodes
and zones covered by this server" and other such questions.

JVArcServ was programmed to be automated.  It will allow new nodes to
join automatically through netmail, and new file lists will be
automatically requested each month.  The sysop running the server will
only have to set it up once and then forget that it exists.

The idea behind JVArcServ is that one node in each net will run the
server and maintain file lists from every other node in the net.  The
server will only be useful with the cooperation of all the sysops in
the net to register with the server and keep undated versions of the
formatted file lists.

JVArcServ and the file compiler also implements a routing system in
the event that a node is long distance from the server.  When the node
registers, it can ask that its file list be requested from a different
node.  In this case, the node creating the file lists would send its
file lists to this second node where it is to be requested from.

FidoNews 9-39                  Page 4                      28 Sep 1992


JVArcServ is available from 1:250/318 with the magic filename
JVARCSERV.  An echo for users and technical support for JVArcServ has
been created and it is available from 1:250/318 as well.

JVArcFC V1.06, the program which creates the specially formatted file
lists, is also available from 1:250/318 as JVARCFC.  This program is
also included in the JVArcServ archive.

If you are interested in JVArcServ, if you have any questions, or if
you want to set it up for your network, just send me netmail and I'll
be happy to help you out.  The server is now running at 1:250/318.  To
try it out, send netmail to "JVArcServ", and in the body of the text
include the line "HELP".

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Where is FidoNet?

John S. Quarterman
jsq@tic.com
Copyright (c) 1992 MIDS

        This article originally appeared in Volume 2, Number 6,
        (June 1992) of Matrix News, the monthly newsletter of
        Matrix Information and Directory Services, Inc. (MIDS).
        For further information, contact MIDS:
                Matrix News
                Matrix Information & Directory Services, Inc. (MIDS)
                mids@tic.com
                +1-512-451-7602
                fax: +1-512-450-1436
                1106 Clayton Lane, Suite 500W
                Austin, TX 78723
                U.S.A.

FidoNet is one of the most widespread networks in the world, going to
countries other networks haven't reached yet.  It is inexpensive,
usually using MS-DOS and dialup connections.  Yet it is capable, making
more efficient use of modem connections than probably any other network
technology, and supporting worldwide discussion groups, called echomail,
in addition to person-to-person mail.

But where is FidoNet?  No one has really known for sure.  By definition,
all FidoNet nodes (fidos) are listed in the FidoNet nodelist, and
FidoNet is defined by the contents of the nodelist.  This articles
examines the nodelist of Friday 19 June 1992 for geographical
information.  The information in the article is about FidoNet as shown
in the nodelist.  If your geographical area does not appear in the
article, this is probably for one of three reasons:
1) your node is not registered (registering would fix this);
2) there is a bug in my methodology (I want to know about it);
3) the article doesn't focus that small (perhaps later).

FidoNews 9-39                  Page 5                      28 Sep 1992


The nodelist does not include much information.  Each node has one line,
like this:

,42,Bink,Portland_OR,Randy_Bush,1-503-297-9043,9600,XA,CM,LO,PEP,V32,GUUCP

The commas are field separators.  The first field (empty in this
example) starts a zone, region, local net, Host, or denotes a private
space (with the keyword Pvt).  The second field (42) is the node number,
and the third field (Bink) is a name for the node.  The fourth field
(Portland_OR) is a geographical notation, and the fifth field
(Randy_Bush) is the name of the owner.  The sixth field is a telephone
contact number, and the other fields are technical information used by
software in making connections.

The geographical information in field four is not completely
dependable, since it is intended for use by humans, not by programs,
and it also varies in format per geographical region.  In the United
States it usually includes a two character postal state abbreviation,
and in Canada a provincial abbreviation.  But elsewhere this field may
or may not contain a country, province, or city name.

The telephone number in the sixth field is actually the most dependable
piece of information, because software must use it to make connections.
But how to convert a telephone number into geographical information?
Theoretically, it should be easy, since there is a separate telephone
country code for almost every country.  Practically, finding such a list
is problematic.

Fortunately, Randy Bush had the beginnings of such a list, and gave it
to me.  I also picked all the telephone country codes out of the source
text of my book, The Matrix.  Other telephone country codes could be
deduced rather easily from the FidoNet nodelist itself, because field
four often contains the name of the country, which could be matched with
the telephone country code.  The form of country names varied a bit, but
it was straightforward to compare some obvious permutations against the
ISO 3166 list of countries with standard two and three letter country
codes.  If the same telephone country code occurs several times with
different nodes with the same country name and in the right general
geographical part of the map, it seems likely that that is the correct
telephone country code for that country.  (Later checking against the
UUCP map, the domain registry, and telephone directory services
indicated all the matches were correct.) This method yielded locations
for all but 22 country codes in the nodelist.

These remaining 22 codes were resolved by calling an MCI operator and
asking her.  After we gave up on country code 8, she located the rest.
There is no telephone country code 8, by the way, but someone omitted 46
for Sweden, leaving an area code of 8 looking like a country code.
Fortunately, this kind of error is remarkably uncommon in the FidoNet
nodelist, presumably because these numbers have to be parsed by
software.  There was one example each of 1-816 (Missouri) and 1-510
(California) being accidentally listed as telephone country codes 816
and 510.  But there are no such country codes.  Most area codes in the
United States and Canada similarly do not make sense when interpreted as
country codes.

FidoNews 9-39                  Page 6                      28 Sep 1992


Two telephone country codes, 1 and 7, are particular problems.
Telephone country code 1 is used for both the United States and Canada,
plus many Caribbean islands.  Canada has nineteen area codes, so it was
easy to type them in from a telephone book.  The Caribbean islands were
a bit more of a problem, since they are all in the same area code,
1-809.  There are FidoNet nodes in both Puerto Rico and the Virgin
Islands, so it was interesting to separate them.  This was possible by
picking out local exchanges by essentially the same method of comparing
fields four and six of the nodelist as was used to obtain country codes.
For example, both 1-809-724 and 1-809-783 are for San Juan, Puerto Rico,
and 1-809-776 is for St Thomas, Virgin Islands (U.S.).  One could argue
that both Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands are part of the U.S.,
so this separation wasn't necessary.  But Puerto Rico often likes to be
considered separately, and 1-809 also includes independent countries,
like Jamaica, the Dominican Republic, Bahamas, Bermuda, Cayman Islands,
and Trinidad.  None of these are in the FidoNet nodelist yet, but their
local exchanges can be added as they appear.  The Dominican Republic
does appear in the UUCP map, so we already know that 1-809-530 is for
that country.  Also in North America, Greenland has its own telephone
country code, 299, and of course 52 is for Mexico.

Telephone country code 7 was for the former Soviet Union, and is still
in use by the Confederation of Independent States (CIS) and the Baltic
States (Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia).  Fortunately, many nodelist
entries for nodes in the former Soviet Union include the name of the
specific republic in field four, and these could be compared directly
with ISO-3166 country names.  Most of the other node listings include a
city name, and all but a few of these were found in an atlas.

Area codes in the former Soviet Union are quite orderly by geography
(unlike area codes in North America).  They run more or less west to
east, in numeric order, as shown in Table 1.  Table 1 does not show the
actual area codes used for geographic location of FidoNet; instead it
shows the leading digits, to give an impression of the ranges used in
the different countries.  The software used for locating hosts uses
specific area codes, not ranges.  Three CIS republics do not show up
with telephone numbers in any network maps I have seen: Turkmenistan,
Tajikistan, and Kyrgyztan.  In anticipation of network nodes appearing
in those republics, I asked another MCI operator, who called information
in each of those republics and discovered the area codes shown in Table
1.

Kaliningrad (East Prussia), Russia   7-011
Lithuania                            7-012
Latvia                               7-013
Estonia                              7-014
Belarus                              7-015 and 7-017
Ukraine                              7-03 through 7-06
Moldova                              7-0422
Russia                               7-07 through 7-30
                                     7-34 through 7-35
FidoNews 9-39                  Page 7                      28 Sep 1992


                                     7-38 through 7-86
Georgia                              7-883
Armenia                              7-885
Azerbaijan                           7-892
Kazakhstan                           7-31 through 7-32
Kyrgyztan                            7-3312
Turkmenistan                         7-3632
Uzbekhistan                          7-3712
Tajikistan                           7-3772

Table 1: Area code ranges in the republics of the former Soviet Union.

The FidoNet nodelist has some redundancy and missing information.  A
single node may appear several times, so that it can be listed with
several names or functions.  But the telephone number has to be unique,
so we just sort by telephone number and eliminate duplicates that way.
Some telephone numbers are listed only as Unpublished.  But the nodelist
is organized roughly by geographical regions, so an unpublished
telephone number is likely to be very similar to the one before it, and
we make that assumption.

FidoNet recognizes six major geographical zones as part of its
basic organizational structure:

Zone,1,North_America
Zone,2,Europe_etc
Zone,3,Oceania
Zone,4,America_Latina
Zone,5,AFRICA
Zone,6,ASIA

Some splinter networks using FidoNet technology do not appear in the
nodelist.  These include z89, z102, z44, and z320.  These are not
recognized as part of FidoNet.  They are sometimes known as SchismNets.
Since they do not appear in the nodelist, we do not examine them here.

Table 2 shows the distribution of FidoNet nodes by country, according to
the FidoNet nodelist.

15688   100%         Hosts in FidoNet map
 8153    52%         United States
 1386     8.83%      Canada
 1084     6.91%      Germany
  596     3.8%       Netherlands
  584     3.72%      Australia
  497     3.17%      United Kingdom
  446     2.84%      Sweden
  368     2.35%      Hong Kong
  267     1.7%       Italy
  207     1.32%      Taiwan
  207     1.32%      Denmark
FidoNews 9-39                  Page 8                      28 Sep 1992


  199     1.27%      Russia
  169     1.08%      Finland
  147     0.937%     Belgium
  109     0.695%     Spain
  100     0.637%     Brazil
   94     0.599%     New Zealand
   84     0.535%     Czechoslovakia
   84     0.535%     Switzerland
   84     0.535%     Austria
   82     0.523%     Singapore
   78     0.497%     Israel
   72     0.459%     South Africa
   66     0.421%     Ukraine
   60     0.382%     Argentina
   41     0.261%     Lithuania
   41     0.261%     France
   34     0.217%     Philippines
   28     0.178%     Greece
   25     0.159%     Portugal
   20     0.127%     Thailand
   20     0.127%     Luxembourg
   19     0.121%     Poland
   19     0.121%     Norway
   18     0.115%     Estonia
   18     0.115%     Bulgaria
   17     0.108%     Puerto Rico
   16     0.102%     Japan
   15     0.0956%    Hungary
   12     0.0765%    Yugoslavia
   12     0.0765%    Macau
   12     0.0765%    South Korea
   11     0.0701%    Malaysia
   11     0.0701%    Ireland
   11     0.0701%    Belarus
   10     0.0637%    Latvia
    8     0.051%     Moldova
    8     0.051%     Iceland
    6     0.0382%    Mexico
    6     0.0382%    Chile
    5     0.0319%    Indonesia
    2     0.0127%    Virgin Islands (U.S.)
    2     0.0127%    Turkey
    2     0.0127%    Kazakhstan
    2     0.0127%    Greenland
    2     0.0127%    Georgia
    1     0.00637%   Zimbabwe
    1     0.00637%   Zambia
    1     0.00637%   Senegal
    1     0.00637%   Mauritius
    1     0.00637%   Kenya
    1     0.00637%   Ethiopia
FidoNews 9-39                  Page 9                      28 Sep 1992


    1     0.00637%   East Germany
    1     0.00637%   China
    1     0.00637%   Botswana

Table 2: FidoNet nodes by country.

Figure 1 shows FidoNet nodes by continent and country, from west to east
and north to south, starting with North America and Latin America,
moving through Europe, the Middle East, Africa, Asia, Australia, and New
Zealand.  FidoNet goes to quite a few countries in Africa.  There are
some curious omissions: nothing in India or the Persian Gulf states, for
instance.  Norway has fewer hosts than the other Nordic countries.

Otherwise, FidoNet nodes seem to be most prevalent in industrialized
countries, varying with population, among no doubt other factors.

                      ^
                      |
       North_America: |
        United States |                                           F
               Canada |                                  F
            Greenland |   F
       Latin_America: |
               Mexico |        F
          Puerto Rico |             F
Virgin Islands (U.S.) |   F
                Chile |        F
               Brazil |                      F
            Argentina |                   F
           NW_Europe: |
              Germany |                                 F
               France |                 F
       United Kingdom |                             F
              Ireland |           F
          Netherlands |                              F
              Belgium |                       F
           Luxembourg |              F
     Northern_Europe: |
              Iceland |         F
              Denmark |                         F
               Norway |              F
               Sweden |                             F
              Finland |                        F
     Southern_Europe: |
             Portugal |               F
                Spain |                      F
                Italy |                          F
               Greece |               F
      Central_Europe: |
          Switzerland |                     F
              Austria |                     F
FidoNews 9-39                  Page 10                     28 Sep 1992


           Yugoslavia |           F
      Eastern_Europe: |
         East Germany | F
               Poland |              F
       Czechoslovakia |                     F
              Hungary |            F
             Bulgaria |             F
              Estonia |             F
            Lithuania |                 F
               Latvia |           F
                 CIS: |
               Russia |                         F
              Ukraine |                    F
              Belarus |           F
              Moldova |         F
              Georgia |   F
              Armenia 0
           Azerbaijan 0
           Kazakhstan |   F
           Uzbekistan 0
         Turkmenistan 0
           Tajikistan 0
            Kyrgyztan 0
         Middle_East: |
               Turkey |   F
               Cyprus 0
               Israel |                    F
               Kuwait 0
              Bahrain 0
 United Arab Emirates 0
         Saudi Arabia 0
              Africa: |
                Egypt 0
              Tunisia 0
              Senegal | F
             Ethiopia | F
                Kenya | F
            Mauritius | F
               Malawi 0
             Zimbabwe | F
               Zambia | F
             Botswana | F
         South Africa |                    F
          South_Asia: |
                India 0
             Pakistan 0
           East_Asia: |
                China | F
          South Korea |           F
                Japan |             F
            Hong Kong |                            F
FidoNews 9-39                  Page 11                     28 Sep 1992


               Taiwan |                         F
                Macau |           F
     South_East_Asia: |
             Malaysia |           F
            Singapore |                     F
            Indonesia |       F
          Philippines |                F
             Thailand |              F
                AUNZ: |
            Australia |                              F
          New Zealand |                     F
                      +----------------------------------------------->
                              5            94        1,084

         FidoNet Hosts, Worldwide
         Copyright (c) 1992 MIDS
         Austin, Texas <mids@tic.com>
        F: FidoNet (FidoNet nodelist, 92.06.19)

Figure 1. FidoNet Hosts, Worldwide

----------------------------------------------------------------------


by Jerry Schwartz 1:142/928
WorldPol Credits - An Apology

I have heard that some folks were upset at their inclusion (or
exclusion) in the "credits" section of the WorldPol proposal.  I
am very sorry for this, and would like to apologize to everyone
involved.

When I typed that section, my intent was to include the names of
all of those whose thoughts, comments, and previous writings
contributed to the development, and in some instances the actual
wording, of WorldPol.  I should have made it clear that not
everyone listed supported the document, as written or in any
form.  In point of fact, no one had read the published version
because it was a reworking of the previous draft which I did and
passed to Pablo Kleinman for submission.

Again, I apologize for not making that clear in the document
itself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Pablo Kleinman

        THE TRUTH ABOUT LAST WEEK'S "WorldPol disclaimer"
       Fighting possible "DAMAGE" by doing actual "DAMAGE"

FidoNews 9-39                  Page 12                     28 Sep 1992


The very prominent disclaimers on last week's FidoNews deserve
a clear explanation. Not only because of the truth in what
has been written, but also because of the bad-intentioned
allegations, false insinuations, and un-truths that have been
issued along with it.

I wish to publicly apologize to Tom Jennings (private apology
was sent last Sunday night by mail) for publishing his name on
the list of credits. Although Tom and I did have an exchange
related to FidoNet policy a couple of years ago or so, when
his name first appeared on the WorldPol credits (I was then
living in South America, the exchange took place through net-
mail), he asked me a few months ago to please remove his name
from the list of credits, taking into consideration the actual
weight of his name in the network and his little participation
in the process. I agreed to do so. The last draft, however,
was not written by me but by another participant of the WorldPol
development, Jerry Schwartz, who got the list of credits from me.
I forgot to remove Tom's name from there. Mea culpa. It was an
involuntary error.

But of the long disclaimer, that's all the truth I was able to
discern. The rest, does not consist of more than simple defamatory
rhetoric. It is simply not true.

First of all, Tom's insinuations of "dishonest means" are
absolutely false. I agree that "the process is the goal" and
I do "practice what I preach." By version 3, there is very little
input from myself in the document, limited only to the
incorporation of democracy/elections and an anti-discrimination
statement. The rest comes from the current policy doc and from
all the input by the different persons listed in the credits.
Even my grammar errors that for some people made the document
"unacceptable," have all gone.

FYI, here is the list of credited individuals and the form in
which they participated:

Raul Artaza, several voice conversations
Don Benson, WorldPol echo
Bill Bolton, RegCon echo discussions about WorldPol
Steve Bonine, RegCon echo discussions about WorldPol
Randy Bush, one voice conversation and two netmails
Billy Coen, several voice conversations and netmail
Phillip Dampier, netmail
Jack Decker, netmail
David Deitch, WorldPol echo
Daniel Docekal, RegCon echo discussions about WorldPol
Ron Dwight, netmail and full review of the doc with changes
Luis Garcia-Barrio, WorldPol echo
Hector Gomez, one voice conversation and one netmail
Tomas Gradin, revised proposal (sent by Ron Dwight)
Jackson Harding, netmail
Rob Hoare, netmail
Jesse David Hollington, RegCon echo discussions about WorldPol
Alejandro Hopkins, several voice conversations
FidoNews 9-39                  Page 13                     28 Sep 1992


Glen Johnson, netmail
Daniel Kalchev, RegCon echo discussions about WorldPol
Raymond Lowe, netmail
Rick Moore, echo discussions about WorldPol, netmail
Bob Moravsik, netmail
George Peace, RegCon echo discussions about WorldPol
Vince Perriello, FidoNews editorials, netmail
Bob Satti, RegCon echo discussions about WorldPol, netmail
Jan Stozek, RegCon echo discussions about WorldPol, netmail
Erik van Riper, netmail
Matt Whelan, RegCon echo discussions about WorldPol
Gustavo Zacarias, several voice conversations

Only those whose input was actually included in the doc, at
least partially, have been named. Those that did not participate
have NOT been named, and NOWHERE in the document does it say that
the people that are actually being THANKED there do actually
support the document. Indeed, if I was to list supporters/endorsers
of the document, I'd have a long list of fine sysops without
resorting to lies or adding names. The point is that, as I said,
the list of credits was a simple "thank you note" to those that, in
agreement or disagreement with the basic philosophy of the
proposal, took minutes and hours of their time to give their
feedback and propose modifications.

As absurd as it may sound, the credits section -which explicitly
states that is going to disappear as soon as the document is
adopted- seems to be, by far, the most "controversial" part of the
whole document. Not only there is last week's overtly aggressive
article on FidoNews to deal with, but others that participated in
previous policy efforts claim that they should be listed in the
credits on WorldPol, when they never participated in the actual
WorldPol discussions. All this is silly. I will ask Jerry to REMOVE
THE CREDITS SECTION ON THE NEXT RELEASE OF WORLDPOL, or at least to
publish the list of contributors only by netmail request from each
person. I'm sure he'll agree.

Again, my apologies to Tom and anyone else who felt harmed by
appearing on the credits. It is, I believe, very clear that there
were no dishonest intentions nor means behind the publishing of the
names. For any questions or comments (my cholesterol level is up
lately so no shit please) I'm available by mail, as usual.

-Pablo
 1:102/631@fidonet
 57:49/22@intlnet.eur
 pablito@fido.lu

----------------------------------------------------------------------


FidoNews 9-39                  Page 14                     28 Sep 1992


Take Me Off That List!
by Phillip M. Dampier (1:260/228)

I join with several others in stating publicly that I cannot support
WorldPol and I do not appreciate my name being used within said
document.

In my handful of years in Fidonet, both as an individual node and as
a Net Coordinator for one of the larger nets in Fidonet, I have come
to hold little respect for long, drawn out policy documents.

In my experience, existing policy documents are enforced unevenly or
not at all, and aren't worth the paper they are sometimes printed on.
I'm not sure this will ever change, regardless of what policy we end
up adopting in the end, because Fidonet operates in a hobbyiest
environment.

I am very much for individual nodes having the power in this network
instead of entrenched *C's who continually stand in the way of
Fidonet's growth, for their own personal, petty, power mongering.
So many, we have seen, have completely lost touch with the nodes they
are supposed to serve.

WorldPol does some positive things, but falls into the trap of turning
into a document the size of a typical speech by Fidel Castro.  The
"keep it simple, stupid" rule has been forgotten.  In fact, this
document is SO HEAVY, if you dropped it in the ocean, it would rise
coastal tides.  Another case of Global Boring.  :-)

Therefore, I want it known by all that I cannot support WorldPol as-is
and my name appearing at the end of the document should in no way
construe my support of it.

Should WorldPolLite ever be created, with 60-70% fewer words and none
of that bitter aftertaste so typical of the usual policy proposals,
I'll take a look at it.  Best of all, we can be assured that such
a document will be "cholesterol free," just like the package of Gummy
Bears I observed the other day at my local corporate cinema.  Bon
appetit!

----------------------------------------------------------------------


                   FIDONET REGION25 ( UK ) EXCEPTION POLICY
                   ========================================

                Issue : Draft D.1    Date : 19 September, 1992


INTRODUCTION.

FidoNews 9-39                  Page 15                     28 Sep 1992


The  REGION25  Exception  Policy  is  to be used in conjunction with the
document known as the FidoNet Policy Document ( Policy 4 - v4.07  )  and
details the exceptions to that document applicable to FidoNet REGION 25.

In  the event of that document being changed, this Exception Policy will
be used in conjunction with whatever  succeeds  the  above-named  policy
document; all references to Policy 4 or version 4.07 of Policy should be
taken  to  read as references to whatever is the current Policy document
then in force.  When  the  policy  document  in  use  is  changed,  this
exception  policy  document  will  be updated, to correct the references
made, but until it is, it will not be rendered invalid or obsolete.

This exception is only for the reasons given and  should  these  reasons
become  invalidated,  this  exception to policy is also invalidated. The
exception is being granted for the technical reasons  defined  here  and
not  for any other purpose. Refer to section 5.6 of Policy 4 for further
information on Geographic Exceptions.

GEOGRAPHY & GEOGRAPHICAL NETWORKS.

Although Region25 has a basic geographical layout, Region25 has a number
of Local and Long Distance telephone carriers whose  charging  structure
does  not lend itself to be in the best interests of the sysops in terms
of least cost within Region25 when certain  sections  of  Policy  4  are
applied. These sections are identified and interpreted below.

1.3.2 Geography
      para  1. - Two networks  may cover the same geographic landmass in
                 the  UK,  however, where possible this is to be avoided
                 if not based on the  technical  limitations  that  this
                 exception applies to.

      para 2. -  Network boundaries  are  not  based on local call areas
                 but   by   the   technical   rationale.   It   is  not,
                 generally, based on personal or social factors.

3.5   Be a Member of the Area Administered
      para 1.  - A Co-Ordinator of a network must be a member of
                 that network.

4.3   Assigning Node Numbers
      para 4.  - This is to be done in consultation with the node
                 concerned and other Network Co-Ordinators as
                 applicable at the time.

5.1   Responsibilities
      para 3.  - The Regional Co-Ordinator will only assign network
                 numbers. No boundary definitions will take place.

5.3   Encouraging the Formation and Growth of Networks
      para 3.  -  If you have several independent nodes in your region,
FidoNews 9-39                  Page 16                     28 Sep 1992


                  you should encourage them to form a network.

5.6   Geographic Exemptions
      para 1.  - This document is to be considered as a detailed
                 documented and approved exception to this paragraph.

5.7   Overseeing Network Operations
      para 4.  - If a network grows so large that it cannot reasonably
                 accommodate traffic flow during the Zone Mail Hour,
                 the Regional Coordinator can direct the creation of
                 one or more new networks from that network, however,
                 these networks must be cost effective for the sysops
                 involved.

The above modifications to the identified  sections  do  not  make  this
exception a geographic free-for-all. Cost consideration  to  all  sysops
is,  of  course, of paramount importance and should be adhered to at all
times.

GENERAL NETWORK PROCEDURES

Because  Geographic  restrictions  on  networks  within the UK have been
relaxed by virtue of the  UK  telephone  companies  structures,  another
force  comes into play here. As one of the advantages, and strengths, of
FidoNet is the diversity of nodes in any given net,  no  network  is  to
become  a 'specialist' network, ie. although extreme examples, they will
highlight the case against 'specialist' networks such  as  "Whites  Only
Network",  "Neo-Nazi  Network"  or  an  "Adults   Only   Network".   The
application  of  a  prospective  node, to join any network within the UK
must be based on whether this node can meet the  technical  requirements
of  operation.  It is not to be based on any of the following items from
the non exhaustive list :

     Sex,    race,    creed,   colour,   sexual/religious/political
     persuasion(s), group association or membership,  and  computer
     equipment used.

This does not, however, confer on any existing or prospective  node  the
right  to  carry  material,  in files, bulletins or messages, that would
otherwise be deemed to constitute excessively annoying behaviour.

If a 'specialist network' can be proven to exist, then it  will  be  the
Region Co-Ordinator's responsibility to dismantle this network, in which
case each of the nodes in that network will be  transferred  to  another
network of their own, individual choice.

A  new  network  can only be created when at least 12 nodes wish to form
that new network. If, in order to reach that minimum  number  of  nodes,
an existing network falls below 12 nodes, then the request can be denied
at that time by the Regional Co-Ordinator.

FidoNews 9-39                  Page 17                     28 Sep 1992


'Network  Hopping'  is  forbidden  unless for a technical reason, or the
irremediable  breakdown of civilised communications between the Net Host
(and/or Net EchoMail Host) and the node;  in  this  latter  case,  every
effort  should  have been made by the parties concerned to resolve their
differences before a net transfer is requested. A node  may  change  its
network  number  only  for  the  reasons  stated above and only with the
approval of both of the involved  Network  Co-Ordinators.  The  Regional
Co-Ordinator  may 'require' a node to change its network number but only
for technical reasons.

At least eight weeks should elapse between  successive  transfers  of  a
node's  network;  if  this  proves  unacceptable  to  the node or to the
node's current Network Co-Ordinator, the node is to be given independent
status within the Region.

This exception does not allow for 'Personal or  Social  Networks'.  This
exception   is   only  for  technical  reasons,  or  the  resolution  of
irreconcilable disputes.

INCORPORATION & AMENDMENT

Any changes to this policy must be voted on by the sysops of  Region  25
as  well  as  the Fidonet Zone 2 Zone Co-Ordinator and the International
Co-Ordinator.  Section  1,  Para  2  of  Policy  4  indicates  that  the
International  Co-Ordinator  does  have  the power of veto. The FidoNet,
Zone 2, Zone Co-Ordinator does not, under this Exceptions Policy,  have
the power of veto of any changes to this policy.

The  mechanism  for  this  will  be  a 'one sysop, one vote' system. The
Region Co-Ordinator (RC25)  will  ask  for  volunteers  as  a  returning
officer (RO) <... etcetera - details of voting procedures omitted ...>.

Incorporation / Ammendment of this document is achieved by a >50%  'yes'
vote of all votes cast, this includes the 'abstain' votes.

<... Electoral appeal procedures ommitted ...>

While there is room for argument, on purely logical grounds, about any
cost or other routing/network-expansion efficiencies that geographical
net topologies might achieve, discussion about them is not what this
particular article (number two of three) is about: if those who are
convinced that geographical networks are unequivocally desirable have
made it their business to implement them then this article assumes
that to be OK PROVIDED it it is done in a way which does NOT impose on
either the goodwill or checkbooks of ordinary nodes in the net (and/OR
their users).

I'll refer specifically to the statistics for Z2 Region 25, where over
75% of the nodes are currently within their "correct" geographically
determined Net, about 20% of those "incorrectly" listed would be happy
to change to a geographically "correct" Net immediately, the nodelist
as a whole is growing by about 150% annually, and during the course of
a year about 20% to 25% of the nodes listed in the first month are no
longer listed by the twelfth month (i.e. are down, have moved, etc).

FidoNews 9-39                  Page 18                     28 Sep 1992


But the point being made is general across the network as a whole.

Basically, a refusal to list any non-conforming nodes that becomes
operational from some given non-retrospective date seems to be a
reasonable way to proceed, as the fact that most Fido nodes already
belong to the appropriate Net when coupled with (a) a NON-coercive
encouragment for existing non-conforming nodes to change to their
geo-appropriate Nets, (b) the current rate of expansion of the
nodelist, and (c) the current rate of attrition from the nodelist,
means that in a relatively short time the proportion of non-conforming
nodes in the Region will be minimal (if current trends continue, less
than 2.5% in three years and less than 0.5% in five).

Given such a trivial degree of non-compliance resulting from a fairly
laissez-faire approach to "enforcement", it seems that if it was good
enough to assign folks ABC/XYZ in the net months or years ago then it
is good enough to live with the consequences of that until altering
them is no longer a matter of disruption and inconvenience for THEM.

At best the change to another Net is time-consuming and often quite
expensive business, but when coupled with authoritarian coercion or
unannounced nodelist tampering it becomes offensive and poisonous:
it is NOT the message to send to nodes who were ALLOCATED their node
numbers by a *C structure to which they did not belong, and who then
keyed software to them, set up email addressing with correspondents
worldwide based on them, and so on, even if the *Cs involved "SHOULD"
have been allocating numbers differently to begin with.

Authors:
Peter Burnett
Paul C. Dickie
and the other readers of the UKEPOL echo.

----------------------------------------------------------------------


By David Rye 1:3649/0
Something To Do, or Something To Prove

    In every human endeavor there will always be conflict and strife.
Pretty simple statement to make, another matter entirely to DO
something about it.  In the time that I have run a BBS (first started
one about ten years ago) I have noticed a few things about people
when then use an electronic medium such as FidoNet to communicate.
They are very rude.  No duh, eh?  Well, when we try to get together
and do something to improve the net, there are going to be arguments.
Each person in the conversation knows "the one and only right way" to
implement each thing they are talking about.  In a face to face
contact with another co-worker you might get mad and yell, but
chances are not great that you would insult them so badly that it
would come to blows.  How many times have you slugged a co-worker?
Chances are that it's not too often that you do, or you would be
working somewhere else.  Now, in comparison, how many times would you
have slugged another user/sysop if they were in the same room?  Ah
ha, I see the figure differs.  So let's look at what happens as a
result of this.
FidoNews 9-39                  Page 19                     28 Sep 1992


    There have been many tries to implement new policies/tech specs/
methods of organization into FidoNet (and other nets).  What causes
them to fail?  Because these proposals are without any socially
redeeming value whatsoever?  Because they are shortsighted, stupid or
prejudiced towards a certain type of user/ sysop?  No, most of the
time it is because of the simple fact that people have so many
different reasons for wanting to participate in FidoNet.  Some sysops
enjoy the feeling of membership in such a large group of people, or
they enjoy the "computer power" available when so many computers are
linked together.  Some sysops enjoy the way that information can be
distributed without having to resort to "mainstream" ways to get
thoughts or concepts "published".  Some users are simply looking for
help, or a friendly chat with people who hold similar interests.  For
whatever reason that people enjoy FidoNet, you can make a fairly sure
bet that it's not exactly the same for any two people.  When these
people see an attempt to change this structure from which they obtain
some sort of pleasure "They Get Upset!".

     When you combine the rudeness that can occur in computer vs.
face to face contact, and the "TGU!" syndrome, very, very, very bad
things are going to occur.  When I get on the scene of a shooting
there are likely to be people who (1) Are upset and (2) Have a
different focus on what to do next.  My priorities are different from
the bystanders and from the police.  I try to treat the patient and
also to avoid getting major chunks of my body from leaving in an
untimely manner.  This is easier for me if I have less people around
me to work against.  Most people would agree that more is going to be
accomplished in a meeting with five people of two different opinions
as opposed to a meeting with fifty people of twenty different
opinions.  If you don't think that this statement is true, try
attending your next County Commission meeting when new taxes are
being discussed.  This same "real life" situation is only made worse
by the semi-anonymous nature of net or echo mail discussions.  At
best you end up with no consensus, and at it's worst you end up with
flaming that should bring to mind a place where pitchforks and
pointed tail sharpeners are the best selling items.

    So what can be done?  You want the truth, or you want the sugar
coated version?  There is not much that can be done about people
getting very hostile when someone rudely criticizes their viewpoint.
The only possible thing that would help with that is for EVERYONE to
remember that there is another person at that end of message marker.
While it's true they probably can't bash your head in for what you
say, their desire to do so will cause any valid point you made to be
ignored by the vast majority.  As to trying to integrate the opinions
of every single member of FidoNet into a single "policy" which
determines how every little detail of net operations is conducted...
well, forget it.  Remember studying the history of agreements that
"outlawed" war?

    One possible way to cut down on conflict is to allow more local
autonomy in the net structure from the net level down.  Allowance of
local network policies that don't interfere with ZMH compliance, but
do allow the net itself to decide on coordinators and mail policies
is one way to keep Joe Sysop from trying to strangle Mike Sysop in
the next state for trying to shove some moronic new policy down his
FidoNews 9-39                  Page 20                     28 Sep 1992


throat.  The modularization of nets would allow single in and out
points for mail in a standard fashion, while allowing a diverse array
of methods of actual generation of that mail.  This would also cut
down on the need for non-*C sysops to carry a full nodelist.  If they
wanted the info for a specific node they could request it in a manner
to similar to file requests.  Simpler routing could be achieved in
this method also.  Ask anyone who produces mail software what they
would give to be able to drop half of the crud that is in existing
message structures.

     There are many problems in FidoNet.  As FidoNet grows they are
only going to get worse.  Something has to be done before it
collapses under it's own weight.  But while discussing these problems
with others try to remember that rabid arguments and antagonistic
statements do nothing to solve the problem you are talking about.
Take some time, and if some moron treats you like ditchwater because
of your opinion just remember not to waste your time with them
anymore.  Nothing makes me as likely to stop reading an echo
conference as mindless flaming.  Since I have been guilty of it
myself before (and most likely will be baited into it again) the only
thing I can do is to try to keep reminding myself that I'm trying to
do something, not prove something.

     Futher discussion concerning this is encouraged.  I'm available
at 3649/0 CM, and even flames are welcome.  I've got several files of
the more amusing flames I've received in the past, and this article
should provide me with hours more of similar entertainment.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

By Rich Veraa
1:135/907

If you read Michele Stewart's article a couple weeks ago, you know a
little about what this area was like when Hurricane Andrew passed. I
spent that night in the nursing home where I live in North Miami, and it
was certainly a night to remember (though I'd rather not). Mostly, I was
worried about my best friend, a cockatoo named Lovey, who lives twenty
miles south of here at the famous attraction, Parrot Jungle. Power and
phone service was interrupted for a week, and finally I heard that Lovey
and all the birds were okay.

I travel with the County's Special Transportation Service for the
handicapped, and I went to Parrot Jungle to see Lovey yesterday as soon
as STS was back in service -- last Saturday. The van had to pick
up two other people on the way, so we went by a roundabout route. We
passed some old frame houses that have been abandond for twenty years
and which looked ready to fall apart at any moment, and the seemed to
have been unaffected by the storm, looking no better or worse, while
newer houses had roofs torn off and sagging walls -- further evidence
that "they don't build 'em like they used to." . As we drove through
residential ares where there was little damage, the houses still looked
odd, and it took a while before I realized it was because the windows
were open, having no electricity for air conditioning. Open windows are
a novelty around here.
FidoNews 9-39                  Page 21                     28 Sep 1992


One of the passengers we picked up lived in a strangely unused-looking
house with an overgrown lawn and no curtains. The driver had to help the
woman get her wheelchair down the front doorstep, and another step by
the driveway. "It's a nuisance to have no ramps." the woman said when
she was in the van.

"Why don't you have ramps?" I asked.

"It's not my house," she said simply. "Mine got blown down in the
storm." I suppose she's repeated that explanation enough times in the
past few weeks that she's immune to the import of it -- but she spoke of
losing her house as casually as if she'd lost a handkerchief. How
resiliant is the human spirit. There's a lot of that around here.

As we travelled south, evidence of damage got more frequent. Street
signs were askew, boarded windows appeared, and huge piles oof debris
lined the sides of the road. As we turned in to Parrot Jungle, there
were the usual piles of broken branches, but the entrance way looked
familiar. Within, the usual gang of macaws and cockatoos sat on their
perches around the entrance and along the windows of the restaurant. But
the scene was uncharacteristically bright and the birds seemed open and
vulnerable. Above, where a thick canopy of high foliage once blocked the
sky, there was nothing but a few gaunt leafless trunks. It was strange
to see so much of the sky there.

My friend Lori happened to be by the entrance when I arrived, and she
took me on a quick tour before we went to get Lovey. About a third of
the lower Jungle is still closed, and probably will be for some time --
it's all an impenitrable mass of tangled broken vegetation.  The areas
that are clear are pathetically empty. Parrot Jungle is a good-sized
piece of proprty to begin with -- but it's skillfully laid out so as to
seem much larger. A visitor could wander about all day long and travel
miles without ever seeing the same scene twice, and though it's situated
on Red Road, a major thoroughfare, the heavy foliage deadened traffic
sounds, and gave one a sensation of peace and isolation. Now, though,
you can see the trucks roaring past behind the east aviaries. The same
is true everywhere. The Parrot Bowl Theater was undamaged, but not it's
geodesic dome -- once nearly invisible -- now dominates every vista. The
many buildings, too, were largely unharmed, but now are intrusively
visible. Painted dark green and screened by foliage, most visitors never
saw them. Now the square bulk of the heavy equipment barn and shops
dominates the north side of the Jungle. And everywhere there is blue sky
and hot sun where there was cool shade.

The new danger is that the ground plants that survived the hurricane --
jungle plants adapted for shady rainforest floors -- will be burnt by
the sun now that the canopy is gone. There was concern also, that the
birds might suffer from the insolation, but so far they appear to be
doing all right. Some of the birds have been moved around because of
damaged facilities, but by and large they, at least, are back to normal.
One change in the bird life that's been made is that the famous Parrot
Jungle free-flying macaws -- that ranged several miles around, and
returned to their cages at night -- have all been clipped, as the area
is so drastically changed, and construction so distracting, that they'd be
likely to get disoriented and get into trouble. The plan now is to start
letting them out as "free-walking" birds at first, and after they've
FidoNews 9-39                  Page 22                     28 Sep 1992


gotten acclimated to the "new" jungle, to let them start flying as their
feathers grow back. Buildings and birds were well insured -- but as I've
said those received little damage. Uninsured losses are estimated at $1.5
million -- plus any losses from reduced business that might result if
the tourist trade doesn't recover quickly.

Lori and I got to the education center -- originally built as a security
officer's cottage -- on the west side of the Jungle. It had been
screened by undergrowth with a curving path to the door. Now there was a
tangle of flattened branches to be pushed aside, and a crooked ramp to
the door. I was glad to have my new powerful wheelchair. The education
center was the worst-damaged building. A tree fell through the roof of
one of the offices (the one I use when I'm there) and the furniture in
it was ruined. The carpet is still soaked. My XT computer is now piled
with other equipment in the main classroom. The night of the hurricane,
Jeff, the chief horticulturist, stayed in the building and saved the
equipment and files that were in that room and watched out for the
birds. Lovey lives in the bird room (formerly a garage) with six or
eight other birds in individual cages. At the storm's height, the other
birds cowered silently in their cages, but Lovey screamed continuously,
so loud Jeff couldn't hear the wind.

Since then, Lovey's been very nervous and nippy, taking chunks out of
several people who tried to handle him. There's a step down to the
garage, so I had to wait by the door as Lori went to get him, and I
called, "Hi, Lovey," and he spun around and began bobbing at me. Lori
brought him to me and he burrowed his head in my chest for a moment,
then ran up my right arm, around the back of my neck, and down my left
arm to burrow into my chest again. Then he repeated the dance a couple
more times. We went back out, and I had to move very slowly over the
rough ground. Lovey, who needs a pedicure, held on painfully tight as my
chair clambered over fallen branches. Then we went to see the primate
area and the petting zoo, which suffered little damage.

At 2:30, they have a raptor demonstration on the lawn, and fly a
peregrine falcon and Mickey, a young (4 years) bald eagle. We decided to
watch it from a shelter by the flamingo area so Lovey wouldn't have to
get too close to the raptors. But that was still _much_ too close for
Lovey. He erected his crest and frantically butted me with his beak
until I went all the way on the other side of the hill. I tried to sneak
back to get a glimpse of the eagle, but Lovey wouldn't have it. When the
hawks were safely back in their cages, we went back down and stopped in
the shade next to the gift shop. All this time, Lovey'd been somewhat
edgy. He'd come down to my lap to be petted, and then, after a few
seconds would run up to my shoulder to look around, and I could feel him
dig his nails in for a good grip at every unexpected sound. So I parked
my chair facing the back wall and let Lovey onto my lap, where there'd
be a minumum of distraction. I began scratching and fluffing up the down
under his wings. Soon he began preening his tail and the wing opposite
the one I was scratching under. He hadn't been grooming himself and was
full of dander and old powder. I began to work through his crest,
scratching the dander and rubbing the sheaths off some new feathers.

FidoNews 9-39                  Page 23                     28 Sep 1992


This was the best part of the day, just sitting and grooming, and I
finally could tell that Lovey was fully relaxed at last. After about a
half hour, I turned around and Lovey, now groomed and looking neat and
handsome, sat on my shoulder, preening my beard and eyebrows. It was a
wonderful moment, after all the tension he'd been under since the storm.
I have a stainless steel bird dish mounted on my chair and had filled it
with water, but Lovey still hasn't figured out that it's for him, but I
dipped my fingers into it and let him lick the water off. He seemed to
enjoy that, and cleaned my fingernails as well.

It was well past 3:30, and STS would be there to pick me up at four, so
I decided to take Lovey for a little ride to end the afternoon. We went
past the posing area, where Raoul arrays tourists with macaws for
photographs. Raoul, who hadn's seen me in a year, came over to say hello
and tried to pet Lovey, but Lovey dug his nails into my shoulder and
ducked away, evading his touch, then relaxed as I moved away. We passed
the Senior Psittacine Village, where Lovey had lived last year. Lovey
paid it no attention -- perhaps because it's been repainted and looks
considerably different. But as soon as the training arena -- where Lovey
lived last spring -- came in sight, he took off and ran up the path in
the opposite direction. I turned around and stopped as he climbed back
up my chair. I took him back the way we'd come, and past the parrot bowl
and aviary row. He was calm again, and I turned to approach the training
arena from the opposite direction, and again he took off as soon as he
saw it. When Lori had told me that they'd put him there, I was sure he
wouldn't like it, since he's so afraid of other birds, and apparently he
really hated it.

Then I took him back to the education center, and Lori was prepared for
a major confrontation over going back in his cage, but he went quietly.
He was satisfied.

The STS driver took a different route and I saw more damage. We went
past the beautiful estates on Old Cutler Road, but couldn't see anything
because the debris was piled ten feet high on both sides of the road. It
was like driving down a canyon. We went north on I-95, which is elevated
most of the way, and we could see all the roofs with missing tiles.
Pressed flat on every roof was a twisted mess of wires and rods that had
been a television antenna. We passed a young couple in swimsuits
repairing their roof.

In other news, Lori's horse still hasn't showed up.  It was gone the
morning after the storm, which had ripped off the barn door. The stall
was destroyed, probably by the horse in a panic.  She's optimistic,
though, and feels that if she'd been killed or injured, she'd have
heard something. She thinks the horse is in someone's paddock that has
no phone -- or is just too busy fixing up after the storm to try to find
the
owner of a stray horse. The horse is well identified with lip tattoos,
though, and eventually will turn up. Lori needs a new roof, one exterior
wall needs to be rebuilt, a couple windows need to be replaced, and
there's a lot of water damage. But they count themselves lucky the place
is still standing and all their birds are fine.

FidoNews 9-39                  Page 24                     28 Sep 1992


So that's the news from the sun and fun capital of the nation.  Thought
y'all might be interested...


----------------------------------------------------------------------


New BIDBOARD Echo Conference
by George Falcon
Sysop, 1:109/446
(301) 277-BBS1 (2271)
6231 Baltimore Avenue
Riverdale, MD.  20737-1020
Voice (301) 277-9572

I have a small computer consultancy in Riverdale, Maryland, and I
read Computer Reseller News (CRN) on a regular basis.  CRN has had
for quite some time a regular column called Bid Board, which lists
federal government agencies' requests for proposals (RFPs) for
personal computer hardware, software, and accessories.  CRN
recently added another column for commercial RFPs.

While this is a valuable service, and while I'm sure CRN staffers
do the best job they can, the information appearing in these
columns doesn't always appear in time for small firms to mount the
effort necessary to respond to these RFPs by their deadline dates.

As someone who's been around FidoNet for about six years, on and
off, it occurred to me that the sysops and users of FidoNet systems
might like to have the opportunity to read RFPs like these, and
might also be able to pass along to interested parties the
information necessary to respond to these RFPs by their deadline
dates.

I decided to start the BIDBOARD echo conference to enable
representatives of federal, state, and local governments, nonprofit
organizations, and commercial firms to post their personal computer
hardware, software, and accessories RFPs, as well as their upcoming
systems analysis and programming contracts.

It is my intent that no other type of message should appear in this
echo, and that each message must contain information enabling those
interested in responding to these RFPs to respond outside the echo.
I intend to enforce these rules very strictly.  The rules files are
contained in the file BIDBOARD, available for file request here.
Those sysops interested in participating who've read the rules,
agree to their conditions, and who're willing to poll this system
until there's enough traffic to justify a request for placement on
the "zone echomail backbone" should notify me via netmail.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 9-39                  Page 25                     28 Sep 1992


New JOBSNOW109 Echo Conference
by George Falcon
Sysop, 1:109/446
(301) 277-BBS1 (2271)
6231 Baltimore Avenue
Riverdale, MD.  20737-1020
Voice (301) 277-9572

I have been reading for quite some time the nationally distributed
JOBS-NOW echo conference, and have read several messages discussing
the possibility of splitting the conference into smaller,
geographically oriented conferences.  There are, of course, people
who are willing to relocate to any area to work in a field they
enjoy, or for a company they respect.

For those who'd prefer to look for positions in the Washington,
D.C. area, however, the "pickin's" in the JOBS-NOW echo are fairly
sparse.  In response to this, I asked in our local sysop echo
conference if anyone would be interested in carrying an echo
designed as a "spin-off" of JOBS-NOW, just for job openings in the
Washington, D.C. metropolitan area.  The response was overwhelming.
After some discussion, the NC, NEC, and local hubs decided that the
echo would probably be a Good Idea, and so now we have JOBSNOW109,
named after our net, Net 109.

JOBSNOW109 is an echo to hold only one-time job openings (no vague
"opportunities for unlimited income potential" or multi-level
marketing messages, please), and only where the primary work
location is the Washington, D.C. area.

It is my intent that no other type of message should appear in this
echo, and that each message must contain information enabling those
interested in responding to these job openings to respond outside
the echo.  I intend to enforce these rules very strictly.  The
rules files are contained in the file JN109.ZIP, available for file
request here.  Those sysops interested in participating who've read
the rules, agree to their conditions, and who're willing to poll
this system until there's enough traffic to justify a request for
placement on the "zone echomail backbone" should notify me via
netmail.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


by Wayne Boyd (1:153/763@Fidonet.org) Vancouver, B.C.

There's a new echo that has just started up for users of the Suprafax
v.32bis and v.32 modems, and it's called, appropriately enough,
SUPRAFAX. This echo is not presently on the Fidonet backbone, but may
eventually (hopefully soon) achieve that status. For now you would
need to make an arrangement with me via netmail to pick it up.

FidoNews 9-39                  Page 26                     28 Sep 1992


After purchasing my Suprafax Modem, I quickly realized the need to
have a dedicated Suprafax echo dealing with problems, solutions and
support for this fine fax-modem. Here's where you might learn exactly
what initialization string is best for YOUR modem, or why your modem
doesn't hang up the phone (the problem I'm having at present, argh),
or how to send a receive faxes with your Supra. You can read what
other people say, and offer suggestions to neophytes like me.

It is our hope that Supra Corp themselves will want to support the
echo and participate in it, but this is not confirmed at present.
Rumors have circulated that they would be interested in such an echo.

Here's how to get a feed for the echo: Best to ask your NEC or NC to
request it from me, and you can get it from him (if you aren't him in
the first place!) Or if that isn't possible, then you can request it
from me directly. All echomail for long distance nodes will be placed
on hold and you would have to poll several times a week (at least) to
pick up your mail. Sound fair?

So see you in the new SUPRAFAX echo.

----------------------------------------------------------------------


New USAFA and USAFAAOG Echo Conferences
by George Falcon
Sysop, 1:109/446
(301) 277-BBS1 (2271)
6231 Baltimore Avenue
Riverdale, MD.  20737-1020
Voice (301) 277-9572

I have been an associate member of the Association of Graduates of
the U. S. Air Force Academy (USAFA AOG) for a number of years,
having gone there in the summer of 1976 with the new members of
class of 1980, the first class to permit the attendance of women.
Attending the U. S. Air Force Academy was a great honor for me, and
I look back on those days as some of the most enjoyable and most
challenging of my life.

The USAFA AOG, in its quarterly publication, "Checkpoints", helps
keep members of the different classes informed on the whereabouts
and well-being of their classmates through the columns written by
the class scribes.  The Register of Graduates, published far less
frequently, lists all graduates, and publishes, with the permission
of the individuals, their current address and other pertinent
information.

As a sysop who started out in FidoNet in 1986, I realize the great
potential this network has to bring people with common interests
together despite considerable geographic separation.  Since Air
Force people, like those of the Other Branches, are dispersed
throughout the globe, I thought it might be beneficial to them to
have another communications channel... one which might permit them
to stay in touch more regularly, with a shorter response time than
letters or magazines.
FidoNews 9-39                  Page 27                     28 Sep 1992


To offer this service, I'm starting two new echo conferences called
USAFA and USAFAAOG.  Not all alumni of the U. S. Air Force Academy
are members of the AOG, so I'm going to offer one echo (USAFA) for
discussions of the Academy in general, and another (USAFAAOG) for
discussions related more directly to the Association of Graduates
itself.

It is my intent that no other types of message should appear in
these echoes.  I intend to enforce these rules very strictly.  The
rules files are contained in the files USAFA.ZIP and USAFAAOG.ZIP,
available for file request here.  Those sysops interested in
participating who've read the rules, agree to their conditions, and
who're willing to poll this system until there's enough traffic to
justify a request for placement on the "zone echomail backbone"
should notify me via netmail.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The Vegetarian Echo

Tag:  VEGAN

Moderators:  Linda Martin 1:214/19 and Ed Weinberg 1:140/490.

1.  The purpose of this echo is to provide a forum for exchange of ideas,
information and recipes of interest to vegetarians or those interested in
becoming vegetarians.

2.  Topics can include:
                        Vegetarian Food and Recipes
                        Lacto-Ovo or Vegan Diets
                        Reasons for Becoming Vegetarian
                        Health Advantages/Disadvantages
                        Living as a Vegetarian in a Meat Eating Culture
                        Where to Find "Cruelty Free" Products
                        Great Vegetarian Restaurants, Books, Periodicals
                        Whatever else pertains to vegetarianism...

East Coast nodes:  Netmail Ed Weinberg of Extract! at 1:141/490.
9600b.  West Coast nodes:  Netmail Linda Martin of Camphor Fountain at
1:214/19. 2400b.  In beween?  Take your pick!

If you have a high speed modem and want a *fast* transfer, netmail:
          Barry Kapke of Body Dharma Online at 1:125/33.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Steve Winter
1:227/150@FidoNet


            Please spread this info around.  Thanks!!

FidoNews 9-39                  Page 28                     28 Sep 1992


           'The sun never sets on the PRIME network'

        -={ PreRapture(tm) International Message Exchange }=-

  With nodes in USA, HONG KONG, SINGAPORE, BELGIUM, RUSSIA?, BULGARIA,
  PORTUGAL, CANADA and growing.

     PRIME is the Only Christian computer network in the world.
    * Both Religious (Christian) and non-religious conferences. *
     A wholesome, family oriented network with a strict policy
            against profanity, lewdness, obscenity etc..
        Features echos on educational and technical topics.
 * Elaborate Bible Discussion and Debate * False Preachers Exposed *
919-286-3962 * 919-286-3606 * 919-286-3266 * 919-286-4617 * 919-286-2100
    Using USRobotics Dual Standard Modems V.32bis-14,400 / HST-16800bps
 * FREQ PRIME.ZIP from 98:98/1 or 1:227/150@FidoNet for network kit *

          No religious requirements for participation!

This should work as a private nodelist (PreRapture BBS was illegally
dropped from the FidoNet nodelist by corrupt FidoNet officials) :

Zone,98,PRIME,Durham_NC,Steve_Winter,1-919-286-3962,9600,CM,HST,V32b
,1,PreRapture,Durham_NC,Steve_Winter,1-919-286-3962,9600,CM,HST,V32b
,2,PreRapture_2,Durham_NC,Steve_Winter,1-919-286-3606,9600,CM,HST,V32b
,3,PreRapture_3,Durham_NC,Steve_Winter,1-919-286-3266,9600,CM,HST,V32b
,4,PreRapture_4,Durham_NC,Steve_Winter,1-919-286-4617,2400,CM,MNP
,5,PreRapture_5,Durham_NC,Steve_Winter,1-919-286-2100,2400,CM,MNP

----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 9-39                  Page 29                     28 Sep 1992


======================================================================
                         FIDONEWS INFORMATION
======================================================================

------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ----------------

Editors: Tom Jennings, Tim Pozar
Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Perriello

"FidoNews" BBS
    FidoNet  1:1/1
    Internet  fidonews@fidonews.fidonet.org
    BBS  (415)-863-2739  (2400 only until further notice!)

(Postal Service mailing address) (have patience)
    FidoNews
    c/o World Power Systems
    Box 77731
    San Francisco
    CA 94107 USA

Published weekly by and for the members of the FidoNet international
amateur electronic mail system. It is a compilation of individual
articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The
contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the
rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those
of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews.

Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is
copyright 1992 Tom Jennings. All rights reserved.  Duplication and/or
distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in
other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or FidoNews
(we're easy).

OBTAINING COPIES: The-most-recent-issue-ONLY of FidoNews in electronic
form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or
Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet.
PRINTED COPIES may be obtained from Fido Software for $10.00US each
PostPaid First Class within North America, or $13.00US elsewhere,
mailed Air Mail. (US funds drawn upon a US bank only.)

BACK ISSUES: Available from FidoNet nodes 1:102/138, 1:216/21,
1:125/1212, 1:107/519.1 (and probably others), via filerequest or
download (consult a recent nodelist for phone numbers).

INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.ieee.org, in
directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews. If you have questions regarding
FidoNet, please direct them to fidoinfo@fidoinfo.fidonet.org, not the
FidoNews BBS.

SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in
FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file
ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable
from 1:1/1 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC".

FidoNews 9-39                  Page 30                     28 Sep 1992


"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
trademarks of Tom Jennings of Fido Software, Box 77731, San Francisco
CA 94107, USA and are used with permission.



    Asked what he thought of Western civilization,
    M.K. Gandhi said, "I think it would be an excellent idea".

-- END

----------------------------------------------------------------------

---
Remember Campers!!!

To send mail from an Internet site or smart UUCP Site TO a user 
            	  that calls a Fido-Net system.

  You need to know the name of the person and node number of the 
  Fido-Net system that the person uses.
     
  The address of a FidoNode looks like this: 1:105/302.0. Usually
  the 1: and .0 are left off, but they are there by default. (In
  Europe it is 2: and in the Pacific Basin it is 3:.) That
  address can be translated as "Zone 1, Net 105, FidoNode 302,
  Point 0." or p0.f302.n105.z1. Add the FidoNet domain of
  .fidonet.org to the end of that, chop off the p0 (it is again,
  a default) and you have f302.n105.z1.fidonet.org - the "Fully
  Qualified Domain Name" of a FidoNode. Another example is
  1:105/4.3 which would be written as p3.f4.n105.z1.fidonet.org
  (since there is a point number other than 0, we have to specify
  it). Note also that we are only using zone 1.  This will also
  work for zones 2 and 3, just use z2 or z3 as appropriate.

  FidoNet uses full names of the callers.  Multi-part name folks
  (eg. First Last, ie. "Dale Weber") will have a period '.'
  seperating their names.  So, lets say you wanted to send mail 
  to Dale Weber at 1:105/55.0, you would address your letter to:
        Dale.Weber@f55.n105.z1.fidonet.org.

************************************************************************
	 Submissions to comp.org.fidonet should be addressed to 
			   pozar@kumr.lns.com
************************************************************************


-- 
Internet: pozar@kumr.lns.com               FidoNet:  Tim Pozar @ 1:125/555
UUCP:     ...!uunet!kumr.lns.com!pozar
Snail:    Tim Pozar / KKSF / 77 Maiden Lane / San Francisco CA 94108 / USA
Voice:    +1 415 788 2022