From: zen@death.corp.sun.com (d)
Newsgroups: alt.polyamory
Subject: Re: ISO Bi-Fem and Girlfriend
Date: 30 Sep 92 09:51:01
Organization: savage hackers
	<lcgqg3INNrlb@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
	<MUFFY.92Sep29103638@remarque.berkeley.edu>
	<lchii7INN1d9@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
NNTP-Posting-Host: death.corp.sun.com
In-reply-to: williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM's message of 29 Sep 1992 21:27:35 GMT


In article <lchii7INN1d9@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums) writes:
> In article <MUFFY.92Sep29103638@remarque.berkeley.edu> muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:
> >It is not the "indicating interest" that causes women (or anyone, I
> >would think) to be "put off," it is the fact that the interest is in a
> >single feature, rather than the whole person.
> But does anyone really 'know' a whole person?

  No one knows *everything* about another person (let alone themselves.)
I think there is a threshold that consists of various attributes for
most people, probably based on how much they are attracted to you -- if
you don't appear to be interested in at least this threshold level of
stuff, then they will probably blow you off.  If someone just came up to
me because of my work in unix security and wanted to base some kind of
relationship on that, I'd laugh.  If they merely wanted me for sex, on
the other hand...

> The real issue is
> that I have to be interested in some arbitrary set of features chosen
> by you, for example for you to be flattered.  

  Well of course -- what is flattery?  I have to appreciate the fact
that you appreciate or compliment me for me to be affected by your
flattery, or else it's just noise or annoyance.

>  If you were attracted to my intelligence, but I really wanted you
> to be attracted to my body, I could be put off as well.  

  Well, sure -- that's not the point, though.  Women are taught that
they are prized for their beauty.  It can get fairly tiring always being
sought out for one thing, regardless of what that is.  I wouldn't know
what it's like to be hounded because of physical attraction (come to
think of it, I don't know what it's like to be highly sought after for
anything... *smile*), but I can see it getting old very quickly.  It
obviously depends on what you're looking for, too -- if you want sex,
then having someone wanting your body is a good thing.

> >  For example, if someone
> >was interested in you for no other reason than that you had blond hair,
> >and they would have sex with you without even wanting to know anything
> >else about you, would you find that appealing?
>   Depends.  If I was attracted to them for whatever reasons, like
> maybe they had dark hair, had a thin, attractive body, and were interested in
> computers, I might (:-)).  It would also depend on my situation though --
> like if I am in a relationship that would allow that.

  What difference does your relationship status make in whether or not
you find something appealing?  Unless you equate a relationship with a
state of being sated.  I don't look at a picasso and say "well, I'm
married, so I don't like this."  You might not *do* anything with the
other person, but I find it odd that you wouldn't find it appealing
based on some random characteristic.

[...]
> The fact is, you can't know a 'whole' person quickly.  In fact, some
> would argue that you can never know a 'whole' person -- that person
> may not even know themselves!

  You can find out a lot about a person and their general being in a
very short time.  Personally I've found that the more I know someone, the
more enjoyable/rewarding the sex has been, although I'm not saying that
that's the norm...

> If someone tells you, you have beautiful
> eyes, I want to swim deeply in them, I suspect that would be far
> more favorably received than if someone tells you, you have great
> legs and I would love to have them wrapped around me.  Yet in both cases,
> it is only 1 feature that is mentioned.

  The connotations are completely different.  One is telling someone
that they are attractive (or have an attractive feature), the other is
telling them that you want to have sex with them.  Many could say the
first (although I don't find the image very appealing myself) -- only
someone after you for sex is likely to say the second.

>  Here is the bottom line, though.  If _I_ *wanted* to sleep with a woman,
> and found out that the only reason she wanted to sleep with me was
> my blonde hair, should I change my mind just because she wants me for
> the 'wrong' reason?

  If *all* you wanted to do is sleep with them, then it wouldn't make
any difference if they wanted you to pay them for sex or if they liked
you for your blonde hair, other than a few bucks.  I know very few
people who want others to want them *only* for sex -- they want the
other person to like them, usually, or perhaps admire them in some
fashion.  I certainly wouldn't sleep with someone that was trying to
hurt someone else; for example, if a friend was in a monogomous
relationship and their partner decided to have sex with me in order to
hurt their partner, there's no way I'd do it.  *You* may not care, but
it matters to other people, I'd say.  Where you draw the line is up to
you.

> I feel that
> more women than men would change their mind about *wanting* to sleep
> with a guy if they found out he just was attracted to their body (even
> multiple features of that body, even!).

  Why?  Do you think that women are more pliable than men?  I personally
think that with the emphasis that men have on having sex, and having it
as some kind of prize, and that men aren't usually thought of as being
desireable sexually, that men would be *much* more probable to change
their minds about wanting sex with a woman if they found out that she
wanted them.

 -- d
Newsgroups: alt.polyamory