From: spk@uk.ac.aber (Stephen Kingston)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Feelings!
Date: 31 Aug 92 10:53:26 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., University of Wales at Aberystwyth.

James,
  Thanks for that post. As I understand it, you are saying that 
those who have a special extra feeling of assurance of their salvation
are still no more saved then any other believer. I agree entirely.

Having said that, I feel there is a little more to this issue. The 
orginal poster mentioned that he did not "feel" any different following
confirmation, but did so after receiveing the Baptism with the Spirit.

Now I agree that a Christian who is not baptized with the Spirit is 
no less a Christian then one who is, but I believe that any Christian
who is * truly * baptized with the Holy Spirit will "feel" more 
saved. That is to say, he will have a special assurance which does
not necessarily come at the time of conversion. (I would agree that 
some people receive this assurance at once, and so mightily that I 
would have to say they were baptized with the Spirit immediately 
upon believing). 

I have said before that I believe Baptism with the Spirit to be first
an assurance of salvation beyond natural assurance. It is a Spirit 
bearing witness with spirit that we are adopted sons of the Father, and 
there is rich biblical imagery to be found about this experience in 
such great passages as Romans 8.

Now practical syllogism will tell me I am saved without this experience.
I know this because the Bible says that those who believe in their 
hearts that God raised Christ from the dead are indeed saved (for only 
God can give us this knowledge). I believe Christ was raised and confess
Christ as Lord. Therefore I am saved.

However the Bible offers this higher assurance beyond logic and reason, 
and this is what we call the baptism with the Spirit.

Now I make this point because the act of Confirmation is historically 
the same thing as the laying on of hands for the Baptism with the Spirit.

In the Confirmation service (the Anglican service is the only one of 
which I have direct experience but I suspect the same is true in Catholic
services), the bishop lays hands upon the head of the candidate and prays
(among other things) that they might "receive the Holy Spirit".

Looking at Church history it is possible to see how the laying on of 
hands for the Holy Spirit became a responsibility of Bishops. However
I do not have sources with me so I cannot explain the exact progression.

This being the case, I feel that believers coming for confirmation 
should be expecting this fuller assurance, and if they do not receive 
it then we should be re-examining the validity of confirmation. Furthermore,
the practice of not allowing Christians to take communion in an 
Anglican church until they are confirmed would seem to deny what you 
said when you said that someone who has not received this full assurance
is nevertheless a Christian.

What do you think?

All the best,
  Stephen.
-- 
Gweleis i rac neb nym gweles pop annwyl. ef diwyl yneges. Gweleis i pasc.
(I saw the one above all men,  he saw me;  he, the beloved of his people,
who fulfills his mission. I saw Easter.) "Yspeil Taliesin" ---Taliesin---
spk@uk.ac.aber --- spk%uk.ac.aber@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk --- Stephen Kingston
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