Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ethics-l
Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:46:28 -0500
From:         vwsetzer@IME.USP.BR
Subject:      Re: W.H. Murray's post about buying an electronic keyobard for a
              kid
Comments: To: ETHICS-L%UGA.bitnet@lion.cce.usp.br

I was going to answer Murrays story about the electronic keyboard system,
but Michael did it marvelously. But now Harold Brochmann writes
(Tue, 15 Dec 1992 07:45:12 ):

>. Valdemar
>seems uncompromising on his position that 'the child' must 'understand' the
>computer (he says on the 'machine language' level) before it can be used
>for *anything*.

I must clarify my position. This question of the child understanding
 the computer is not an essential argument. I hope I said that the computer
is certainly a mystery to children, who **are unable** to understand it.
In order to do so, it would be necessary to understand machine
language. I hope I also said that I consider it almost impossible for
a child to understand machine language. It would be nice if we could only
give children things that they may "understand" - I am using quotation
marks because I am not referring to conceptual of formal understanding.

If a child plays a recorder (flute), he/she does not need to understad
the acustics involved in the process. The reality "explains" everything
the child needs to know. The same applyes, not to the same degree, though,
with the piano: it is possible to open it and show the child the hammers
and how they hit the strings when a key is touched.
It will be impossible to show the child how an electronic keyboard
system works.
One more argument against electronic keyboard systems: the sound is not
"natural"; it is synthesized and then produced via a loudspeaker, which
is punctual (I mean, comes from almost a point in space), which is
not the case with the piano and also the recorder (for those that are not
woodwind  players, one of the things a musician has to learn is to
open his throat while playing, in order to produce ressonance with
the air he is producing). The sounds produced through lodspeakers are
far from natural sounds - in general, they tend to have a metalic pitch.

One more point: according to Waldorf education, children should only
start reading musical notes in 3rd grade. This does not mean that they should
not learn instruments before, but they should do it "by heart".

About Murray's story: if I would visit New York, there would be no time to
waste visiting computer shops. I would rather visit the Met, the
Frick Collection, go to the marvelous concerts and theater plays, etc.
And if I would buy a gift for my niece (I happen to have two...), I would
not buy an electronic playtoy (not even a plastic doll - rag dolls are much
more adequate, but this is another point about which Waldorf Education has
a definite opinion).

I would like to ask the following question to Murray: do you have artificial
or natural grass in your house? If you have artificial grass, we better stop
arguing, because our viewpoints are completely opposite. If you have
natural grass, may I ask you why do you prefer it? If you like
technology, as you wrote, maybe you have to admit that you prefer natural
things - at least with grass, which maybe a starting point for our
mutual understanding. As children grow, they become less and less
"natural", for example by acquiring the ability of exercising abstract
thinking. That is the reason I would give my nieces "natural" playtoys,
including the recorder, and never an electronic playtoy. When I was a boy,
I had an electric train (Lionel I think was the brand); well, I did not
*play* with the train, it played by itself! So I gave my children a
wooden train (Brio). I remeber always developing a headache when playing
with the electric train. My children played for hours with the wooden one,
without any headache. They had many more things to imagine than I had with
mine. Also, there was nothing they could not "understand" in the wooden
toy.


Valdemar W. Setzer
Dept. of Computer Science
University of Sao Paulo
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU