From: hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong)
Subject: Re: Any tips for a pilot-to-be?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 05:19:35 GMT

From article <1993Jan11.192012.7126@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, by ginsberg@t.Stanford.EDU (Matthew L. Ginsberg):
> In article <1993Jan11.040241.23474@netcom.com> hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong) writes:
>>From article <1993Jan11.033003.26791@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, by ginsberg@t.Stanford.EDU (Matthew L. Ginsberg):
>>> Let's give Mr. Chong a break.  Our complaint isn't with him, it's with
>>> his instructor.  If he can't tell how far away a cloud is while flying,
>>> and feels that climbing into/near clouds to get over a mountain is
>>> sensible for a student pilot, he shouldn't be flying solo.
>>> 
>>> 						Matt Ginsberg
>>
>>Wow, I can see it now.  Mr Ginsberg pitying poor Chinaman, cannot even
>>drive, must less fly a plane.  If a Chinaman should make a mistake, that
>>means he will do it EVERY time.  We've got ourselves another
>>Mr I-never-make-a-mistake, don't we?  :-) 
> 
> What *I* see here is a serious attitude problem.  What you're supposed
> to learn from an aviation mistake -- and what I try to learn from mine --
> is not simply to avoid that *particular* mistake, but to avoid that *class*
> of mistake.
> 
> Mr. Chong is pretty lucky not to have killed himself by flying into a
> cloud.  Based on the partial account of the incident, it appears that
> the mistakes made included at least the following:
> 
> 1) Inability to determine vertical distance from cloud
> 2) Over-reliance on weather forecasts
> 3) Failure to respond appropriately when in the cloud
> 4) Poor understanding of "terrain management"

Now Mr Ginsberg just have to have the last word.  Well, hopefully these 
are mine.

First of all the incident has nothing to do with my instructor.  The forcast
called for no cloud at that level, and I double-checked with the forcaster 
if it was all right to do VFR x-country solo.  The forcaster endorsed the idea
enthusistically.  My instructor don't have bionic eyes, he cannot see 
50 miles, can he?  Can any of you?  He signed me off for x-country solo.

Now if you said that he did not bring me up to experience cloud before 
x-country solo, that is another thing.  Does every instructor bring his
or her student up to experience cloud before signing off for x-country solo?
Let me know because I have not heard it before.

Now Mr Ginsberg accused me of (1) inability to determine distance from
cloud.  As Mr Stormwind said, cloud is not a solid object, difficult
to tell when it begins, when it ends.  If it is hard for Mr Stormwind
(an authority Mr Ginsberg admitted listening to), then I guess it is more
difficult for a student pilot with no experience with cloud.  As for 
(2) over-reliance on forcast, well, I don't have bionic eyes, maybe 
someone else has.  (3) my failure to respond appropriately to cloud, 
as Mr Ginsberg accused, I don't think so.  First thing I did was 
to stablize the plane, and then turn 180, like the book said.  
(4) terrain management?  I think I did the best at the time.  
If I had descend as Mr Ginsberg suggested, I would have hit the 
mountain side in front.

Now since my instructor is not to blame, and I made a couple of mistakes
as a student but did the best I could to recover, I wonder who Mr Ginsberg
is going to blame to get his last word in. 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting