HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mueller@owlnet.rice.edu (Ernest Conrad Mueller)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re:      Divorce and Remarriage
Date: 31 Jul 92 14:43:03 GMT
Organization: Rice University

>>       But I still can see no precedent in the NT for
>>giving up, based on the Matthew and I Cor passages mentioned.

>If this is true what is I Cor 7:15 referring to when it says that "a believing
>man or woman is not bound in such circumstances"?

Oh, truly, a *believing* man or woman is not bound if an *unbelieving*
husband or wife leaves, straight from 1 Cor 7:15.  If this was the case then
that's fine.  I just did not hear that in the discussion; it seemed like you
were saying that since she did not want to be reconciled, you gave up, which
is expressly not allowed by Scripture.  I guess I missed a post somewhere,
sorry.

>I was tempted,
>I fell and I've been forgiven.
[much deleted]
>Is it really fair to compare a person's ability to keep a covenant with that
>of
>a holy, just, and merciful God?  In fact, history has shown us how difficult
>it is for man to do this in the very example you cite being that of Israel.
>The weakness displayed in that situation serves as a perfect illustration of
>just how badly we need the atoning blood of our Savior.

I will not write another long post ranting about how Christ did not just
come to bring us forgiveness from sin and salvation in the afterlife but
liberation from sin here and now. Because of the Holy Spirit in our lives,
yes we can do it, and we are expected to.  Read my last post about it or read
Romans, I was pretty much just paraphrasing parts out of it.

I sympathize with you and all others who are in a similar plight.  And no,
I haven't been through a marriage and divorce, so if that makes you not
want to listen to me, fine.

Ernest
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Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 10:52:53 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Masturbation: Gift of God or Sin from the Devil?
              31 Jul 1992 08:47:00 EST from <02RSMILLER@BSUVAX1>

Hi:

Except for the age at which she started (I was 12) and the age at which
she met the Lord (I was 27), Becky has already said essentially everything
I would have said on this topic.

Men are not alone in their struggle with this sin.

                                                  Love INC,
                                                           --Kerry
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:27:12 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Amy Grant, etc., etc.
              28 Jul 1992 14:57:53 EDT from <LSMITH@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU>

LSMITH (I'm not sure who you are, please forgive me.):

I praise God for the work you do in Washington, DC.  The Lord needs more
laborers willing to go into the hard places, the places where the
Word and the message may not be welcome, the places where there are
real people in real pain.  I pray that your efforts will bear fruit.
And remember:  if you ever feel discouraged, we are here for your support.

                                     Love INC,
                                              --Kerry
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 13:39:36 EDT
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From:         Angela Zimmerman <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Footprints

Item Retrieval Assistant, DADS
Phone: 588-6757

How was it proven that the copy she had that she gave to a friend was written
before the first publication?  Is there any way you could send me a copy
of the article, or the citation for it?  I'd like to know how she proved
that she was the author.  Thanks.
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 13:27:19 EDT
From:         AISARMSTRONG%IST%VMI@IST.VMI.EDU
Subject: Re: Bible study deadline
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

I am interested in the Bible study group.

Eddie Armstrong (aisarmstrong%ist%vmi@ist.vmi.edu)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
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From: spk@uk.ac.aber (Stephen Kingston)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Clinton's acceptance speech and Scriptural allusions
Date: 23 Jul 92 13:35:38 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., University of Wales at Aberystwyth.

LHARANGO@OWUCOMCN.BITNET (Lauren H. Arango) wrote:
> At Bible study this morning, someone mentioned that the "scripture" that
> Bill Clinton quoted in his acceptance speech comes not from the Bible,
> but from the Book of Mormon.
> 
> Does anyone know if this is so?
>                                         God's peace,
>                                         Lauren
It is not true. 

There is a verse in doctrine and covenants that comes close, but not 
much closer then the original quote from the Bible.



-- 
Gweleis i rac neb nym gweles pop annwyl. ef diwyl yneges. Gweleis i pasc.
(I saw the one above all men,  he saw me;  he, the beloved of his people,
who fulfills his mission. I saw Easter.) "Yspeil Taliesin" ---Taliesin---
spk@uk.ac.aber --- spk%uk.ac.aber@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk --- Stephen Kingston
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 21:04:20 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: The vote and being offended by posts or flames.
              30 Jul 1992 15:24:00 EST from
              <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>

Another miracle!

I agree with what Dan Graham said about being offended by electronic
mail.  Our sufficiency is in Christ, not in what other people may
or may not think of us.  (Besides, I almost forgot--doesn't matter
to me.  The person that takes offense is dead.  The person that
forgives rose with Christ.)
                           Love INC,
                                    --Kerry
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 10:10:29 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: One Question, Kerry
              23 Jul 1992 09:12:32 EDT from <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>

Angela:

I know it is fact because the entire Bible argues that man can do
*nothing* of value on his own, which is exactly what Clinton says we
*can* do.  (See: Tower of Babel.)
                                 Love INC,
                                          ---Kerry
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Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 07:23:22 EDT
From:         fran burkert <FBURKERT@KENTVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Peretti's Stuff (Prophet Spoiler)

Kerry,
     Thanks for your commentes on Peritti.  For a minute there I was
beginning to believe I should stop reading anything.  I realize that I am
purhapes not as sophisticated as some, but all three of Peritti's books have
held my attention. Dare I say that I have read all three------twice?
                                              Because of His Amazing Grace,
                                              Fran
From: psyrobtw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: David & Vicky
Date: 21 Jul 92 20:09:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

That's great! 

>D>Just out of curiosity, has anything like this ever happened on
> >Christia before?

	Hmmm. Kinda. Sorta. There was Gary who was a member of 
Christia. He lives in Texas. We were chatting on RELAY, and showing 
different Messianic Scriptures to man named Chaim. Ellen from Florida
started sharing from the Bible too. Ellen and Gary continued writing 
back and forth for awhile (Ellen was also on Christia for awhile).
Well, they were married, and their first child was born just about 
three weeks ago.


 en agape,
 Bob 
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Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 12:59:58 CST
From:         Tom Purcell <GE0110@SIUCVMB.BITNET>
Subject:      Psychology - Christianity

I am a psychologist - got my Ph D in 1965 - and a Christian.  It is
superficial to stereotype all psychology as "unChristian", "bull",
or whatever.  It is equally superficial to stereotype all Christians
as one way or the other.   Stereotyping is not a very useful form
of logic and can lead one to harmful and false conclusions.  Doing
do so can have unfortunate consequences for persons who truly need
assistance.  Not all human behavioral, motivational, emotional,
problems, etc. are simply issues of morality any more than are all
physical illnesses.  Not all psychologists I know are Christians, but
most I know are, and many are as dedicated as any other Christian I
know.

Sorry to be a bit irritable, but you have touched a nerve.
It behoves us to be a bit more objective - and well informed,
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 09:01:31 EST
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Amy Grant and her "Crossover" Music
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU
              Curry-White" at Jul 27, 92 4:44 pm

Well I went to to the "Heart in Motion" tour and let me just say that it
was VERY edifying.. If people went there to see a purely secular performance
then they were surely disapointed!! :-).

As well as her latest stuff, she sang such uplifting songs as Lead me on, El
Shaddai etc etc.. I was in full 100% worship during most of the concert...




---------------------+-------------+-----------------------------------------
Ian Williams         |    _--_|\   |      Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems       |   /      \  |	  Phone	  : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia  |   \_.--*_/  |
                     |         v   |
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:49:04 CDT
From:         CCCHRIS@MIZZOU1.BITNET
Subject:      Politics/USA

I think it's a mistake to vote on a single issue, even on one as important
as abortion.  Though I'm prolife and anti-abortion (not to reopen the debate
about abortion) I'm ready to listen to a politician speak out on what he/she
intends to do about those already living.  I'm no expert on politics, but it
seems to me that we're all looking at the same pie.  It's just a question of
how that pie is going to be sliced.  Since it seems I'm destined to be among
the less affluent class, I'm anxious to see some positive changes.  For all
its talk about support of family values, I don't see the present, or recent
administrations, doing much for it.

This thinking may be wrong, and I almost hope it is; for as much as I
personally dislike George Bush, I believe he'll be re-elected.  Oh well,
just my $.02, for what it's worth, and these days it won't even buy a
gumball anymore.

Sigh,  Chris Reed
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 10:13:52 EDT
From:         "Roger A. Phyall" <ROGER@TEMPLEVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Clinton's acceptance speech and Scriptural allusions
              21 Jul 1992 00:29:52 -0500 from <peacock5293@ISCSVAX.UNI.EDU>

On Tue, 21 Jul 1992 00:29:52 -0500 Greywolf said:
>In article <CHRISTIA%92071808161299@ASUACAD.BITNET>, Kerry Stephenson
><KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET> writes:
>> Is everybody packed?
>
>But ... Where are we supposed to *go*?
>
>I don't know of too many Christian nations in today's world...
>--
>-Jordan            ..      PEACOCK5293@iscsvax.uni.edu
>                  .OO.     Jordan Peacock (Jordan Greywolf)
>                  O/\O     (New Address):  1610 Parker
>                   --                      Cedar Falls, IA  50613

Jordan, my brother in Christ:

     Shame on you, you slept what Kerry was talking about.  She was speaking in
terms of the "Last Days" prior to the "Rapture".  As I replied to her, I have
not seen any evidence of the "Anti-Christ" as of yet.  Therefore it isn't time
to pack our bags and get caught up as of yet.  Also the Christian Nation will
radiate from Isreal after Christ returns.

|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|                            |    Cordially & Sincerely yours,  |
| Temple University (038-15) |                                  |
| Computer/Math Bldg. Rm 851 |         Roger A. Phyall          |
| Broad St. & Montgomery Av. |       VM System Programmer       |
| Philadelphia,PA 19122-2585 |          (215) 787-1292          |
|                            |                                  |
|        Internet:           |              Bitnet:             |
|   ROGER@VM.TEMPLE.EDU      |           ROGER@TEMPLEVM         |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: timk@world.std.com (Tim King)
Subject: Re: Spiritually dead
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 06:37:55 GMT

CCCHRIS@MIZZOU1.BITNET writes:

>I've already deleted the mail I read this morning, but something I saw in one
>note didn't set too well with me.  Sorry, it's gone, so I can't quote it
>verbatim, but it was about how if a person is not reading their Bible daily
>they're spiritually dead.  While I agree that a Christian should read the
>Bible daily, I strongly disagree with the implication that _not_ doing so
>means the person is spiritually dead.


Hi, Chris!  I think you may have been refering to Dan's statement "Anyone who
isn't learning from the scripture either isn't reading it, or is spiritually
dead."  I don't think Dan meant to imply that reading one's bible every day
is a must for spiritual life, but that reading it at all is.

I won't go so far as to make a definitive statement about Mr. X's spiritual
state.  However, I would like to make the strong affirmation that reading
the bible is a good thing.  Meditating on the word is especially helpful.
In one sociological study, christians who meditated almost daily for
three years or longer had notably better mental health and were happier
than those who didn't.  (Meditating for Success.  Paul Meier.  Baker Book
House, Grand Rapids, MI.  p. 22)

I would definitely advise anyone and everyone to find a little time each day
to read the bible.  It doesn't have to be long, just 15 or 20 minutes.  It
doesn't have to be ritualistic if you don't want it to be.  But it is
undeniably helpful for a christian to sit down with God's word each day.

Now, just someone tell me how * I * can stick to this prescription!!!

Love in Christ,
-Tim
-- 
Tim King                  |-_      |
Dedham, MA                |  -|    |    Make mine music!
timk@world.std.com       <>   |   <>
(617) 890-2929 x137          <>
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Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 08:35:01 EDT
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From:         Brenda Curry-White <BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Taking offense and eye specks

Urban Research Institute
Phone: 502-588-6626

Jesus once walked into the temple gates and saw a scene which disturbed
him greatly.  It even angered him to the point of pushing over the tables
of the moneychangers.  I find it no great stretch of the imagination to
think that he might have been just a little offended at what he saw.

Now you might say that we should be offended when we see others so obviously
sinning as the moneychangers were.  But when we use abrasive, insulting,
narrowminded and intolerable and unloving language to get our points across,
is our sin no less obvious?  Should it be a surprise when other Christians
are offended by us and are they wrong to be so offended and should they not
speak up to point out our sin?

"Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God and everyone that
loveth is born of God and knoweth God.  He that loveth not, knoweth not
God for God is love."  1 John 4:7-8

I think we've all gotten just a tad carried away.  First we have left the
love with which we are commanded to conduct ourselves behind, and in the
next breath we have practically accused those who have taken offense of being
less than Christian (the allusion to death and rising with Christ).  Let's
start looking for those specks in our own eyes, shall we?

Brenda Curry-White
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Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 03:14:02 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      Mary and Martha of Bethany (29 July)
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET, BSTUDY-L@UTARLVM1.BITNET,
              IVCF-L@UBVM.BITNET

MARY AND MARTHA OF BETHANY (29 JULY)

Mary and Martha lived with their brother Lazarus at Bethany, a
village not far from Jerusalem. They are mentioned in several
episodes in the Gospels.
     On one occasion, when Jesus and His disciples were their
guests (Luke 10:38-42), Mary sat at Jesus' feet and listened to
Him while her sister Martha busied herself with preparing food and
waiting on the guests, and when Martha rebuked Mary, Jesus
defended her.
     When Lazarus, the brother of Mary and Martha, had died, Jesus
came to Bethany. Martha, upon being told that He was approaching,
went out to meet Him, while Mary sat still in the house until He
arrived and asked for her. It was to Martha that Jesus said: "I am
the Resurrection and the Life." (John 11:1-44)
     Again, about a week before the crucifixion, as Jesus reclined
at table, Mary poured a flask of expensive perfume over Jesus'
feet.  Mary was criticized for wasting what might have been sold
to raise money for charity, and again Jesus spoke on her behalf.
(John 12:1-8)

On the basis of these incidents, many Christian writers have seen
Martha as representing Action (good works, helping others), and
Mary as representing Contemplation (prayer and devotion); or love
of neighbor and love of God respectively.

(They see the same symbolism also in Leah and Rachel, the
daughters of Laban (Genesis 29 and 35). Leah was dim of sight, but
had many children. Rachel had few children, but one of them saved
the whole family from destruction. Leah represents Action, which
is near-sighted and cannot penetrate very far into the mysteries
of God, but it produces many worth-while results. Contemplation
has fewer results, but one of those results is Faith, without
which it is impossible to please God." (Hebrews 11:6) Yet, there
is a sense in which Action comes first -- "If a man love not his
brother, whom he hath seen, how shall he love God, whom he hath
not seen?" (1 John 4:20) So it is that Leah must be wed before
Rachel.)

PRAYER
   O God, who bestowest divers gifts and graces upon thy saints:
   We give thee humble thanks for the examples of thy servants
   Mary and Martha, the friends of our Saviour Jesus Christ; and
   we pray thee to give us grace to love and serve thee and others
   for his sake, who with thee and the Holy Ghost liveth and
   reigneth ever, one God, world without end.
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 14:29:34 EDT
From:         carol nemec <YA67@FERRIS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: ted kennedy

off-the-wall remark, uncharacteristic of carol:

does ted kennedy really care what the Catholic Churchthinks

consider this a rhetorical question

another...does the Catholic church think about ted kennedy

carol
From: psyrobtw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: [US politics] Re: Snubbing God
Summary: extraction from Cuomo's speech
Date: 25 Jul 92 18:59:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


     A correction first. My paraphrase was not an exact quote.

    "We need a leader who will stop the Republican attempt - through laws and 
     through the courts - to tell us what God to believe in, and how to apply 
     that God's judgment to our schoolrooms, our bedrooms and our bodies."	
     (Gov. Mario Cuomo, nominating Gov. Bill Clinton, 7/15/92)


>Can you explain how this constitutes a `snub' of God?  (For that matter, can
>you explain exactly what you mean by a `snub'?)

     Last question first. I would define "snub," in this context, to be 
     a treating with neglect or sleight. Also, in the extraction 
     quoted above, I would define "God's judgment" as referring to
     a determination of what is right and what is wrong based on the
     standard of God's word.

     Cuomo's speech is an argument for a leader who will not employ
     a morality that is God given. The key item in this argument is 
     that of origin. Cuomo is not against a "republican morality"
     (if there is such a thing), or against Bush's morality (again,
     if there is such a thing), rather he is arguing against applying
     God's standards.



 en agape,
 Bob 
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Organization: Samford University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 09:53:24 CDT
From:         Renee Autry <SRAUTRY@SAMFORD.BITNET>

Re: Spiritual authority strands, etc.


It has recently come to my attention (via a friend who is working on her
doctorate in Christian counseling) that there is more to be debated regarding
"spiritual authority" or "headship" than personal preference in
marriages, doctrine of individual churches, etc.  She informed me of an
alarming statistic - more women and children are abused in families where
there is a strict sense of heirarchy than in families where there is an
egalitarian model of marriage.

Now, before everyone gets upset, let me say that "no, I do not think, nor did
she imply that everyone that adhered to this model of marriage was either an
abuser, or abused and yes, I believe that if men love their wives as Christ
loved the church, no, this would not happen."

However, it does happen and in Christian families.  She suggested a book, for
those interested in this subject entitled BATTERED INTO SUBMISSION by James
and Phyllis Alsdurf.  She said she would send additional information if it was
requested.

Included below are selected excerpts from the book.

"Wife abuse doesn't occur in families in which husbands are unsaved or
alcoholics, where mothers work outside the home or couples are only nominally
Christian.  Many of the abused women with whom we talked are married to church
leaders, deacons or pastors.  They all consider themselves to be committed
Christians and for the most part would uphold traditional family values.  Few
would label themselves feminists, and almost without exception they have
worked hard at being submissive to thier husbands" (pg.16)


"What, in these Christian homes was condusive to abuse?  The findings of
researchers Christy Telch and Carol Linquist give an important clue.  They
determined that violent couples 'have more stereotypes sex-role attitudes
and more traditional views of marriage' . . . " (17)


Insofar as I can tell, this book carries the utmost respect for marriage and
the Christian perception of marriage, while at the same addressing a concern
and issue that the church often ignores.
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