HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: andrey@cco.caltech.edu (Andre T. Yew)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: 040 and 486 and nap42487 knows nothing about CPUs.
Date: 15 Apr 92 08:04:32 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena

>In article <1992Apr13.152041.13375@ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:

>>As far as the
>>instruction set goes, I maintain that it's different, not worse.  Ortho-
>>gonality isn't everything.

	I think people are going to remember this phrase.  The many, many times
I'd wished for a more orthogonal register set when programming an 8086,

	So, not that this is any sort of official test, Jerry, but what's the
shortest assembly program you have that copies more than 64K of data
around on an 8086?  The non-orthogonal instruction set makes this task
more annoying than it is already with segments.  If anyone wants a good
laugh, try reading the Intel 8088/86 programming manual sometime -- it
suggests that its segmented memory is good because it encourages modular
programming!

--Andre

-- 
Andre Yew                             andrey@tybalt.caltech.edu (131.215.48.100)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: Xerox adds "screens" to windows
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 23:52:03 GMT

mcarp@sun75.uucp (Michael Carpenter) writes:
>Rooms is more like have "n" different Workbench screens, not just one 
>Workbench screens and "n" application screens.  To my knowledge you can
>only have one Workbench screen on the Amiga.  (Admittedly, I'm still 
>running 1.3, so I don't know if you can do  this in 2.0.)

I have used something like this before.  It was a PD ware for the Amiga
which would allow you to open a custom screen and redirect Workbench windows
to the new screen.  I cannot recall the name at the moment; I will check.

-- Gerald
From: Paula_Lieberman@amicol.UUCP (Paula Lieberman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Justin, go back into the woodwork........
Date: 10 Apr 92 16:48:07 GMT
Organization: Amiga Colony BBS

The person who felt that Macs could not support the software he develops
HAS a Mac IIsi on his desk, and has had Macs on his desk where he works for
years. However, the stuff he writes needs more power and more speed and
better multitasking that Macs can use.  The company he works for is a fully
certified Mac developer and has all the documentation and hundreds of Macs
just at the site he works at alone. He's a former Mac owner; he ditched the
one he had several years ago because he wasn't using it.  He also has
dumped the GUI on the Suns he uses; he for while had been using SunView and
all the GUI stuff on it, but now just uses plain text windows, for what he
was doing all the WIMPy stuff was just getting in the way of him doing
software development for applications that are actually in use in various
places outside of where he works.....        Anyhow, he does real software
that customers pay real money for on REAL UNIX computers.......  and he has
looked at porting the software over to Macs, and HE as a software developer
and Mac user feels it's NOT doable!


-- Via DLG Pro v0.991
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: fihsu@athena.mit.edu (Hsu I-wei)
Subject: Re: What to do about CBM
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 20:28:36 GMT

In article <mykes.2407@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>Since I posted my article about how CBM is a game company, many people
>have written to me to ask what we can do about it.  Seems everyone, like
>me, is interested in seeing CBM keep up with the rest of the computer
>systems in its class.  Here's what I suggest is THE best policy.
>
>
>BOYCOTT any new CBM computer systems (at the high end) until they come
>to their senses.  The problem does NOT lie with the engineers at CBM -
>they are all fine.  The problem lies with the marketing, as MB has always
>reminded us.

I agree that marketing is the problem, and I wish that C= would at least try
some agressive marketing..  what'd be great is if C= did some real advertising
with the A600.  Maybe, just maybe, this would get stores not only to sell the
A600, but the rest of the Amiga line along with it.

>
>A boycott of a new $5000+ Amiga system is certain to have impact where it
>hurts CBM management the most - in the wallet.  In the past, CBM has had
>fire sales on computer systems they couldn't move.  This will end up driving
>the prices on their high-end machines down to reality.  CBM historically
>cuts the prices on those machine that don't sell well.  When the machines get
>to be a good value, they start selling.

No, with C='s terrible marketing in the US, the machine would have to have
to be a miracle for the machine to sell itself.  Look, you can't try to fight a
price war with say, the clone market.  Apple doesn't, yet they are selling alot
of Macs.  Why is that?  Maybe because Apple takes an active role in promoting
their machines?

Also, what if CBM read the boycott wrongly?  What if they just decided to give
up on the high end because it wasn't selling even a little?

>
>If people keep accepting the low-end stuff stuffed into a high-end package
>with unfulfilled potential, that's all we're going to get.

Maybe...  I just think that a boycott would end up hurting the future of the
Amiga.

>
>If it doesn't do RTG, don't buy it.  If it costs too much, don't buy it.
Of course don't buy a machine which costs too much, silly.  :)

>If it doesn't do VM, don't buy it.  If it doesn't do memory protection,
>don't buy it.  The secret is to hit them in the wallet.
If C= gets hit too hard in the US, they may just decide to forget about it
and stick with Europe.
>
>--
>Author of Amiga GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle,
>and Genesis Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
>Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
>1124 Fremont Ave.
>Los Altos, CA 94024

Francis
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: *** ULTIMATE BASHING for PeeCee Users
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 20:28:40 GMT

ajaffe@amiganet.chi.il.us (Adi Jaffe) writes:
>Ive also heard some salesgoober on the same shopping network claim that the
>"Intel 2-8-6 was the newest chip out on the market."
>
>Talk about capitalizing on a buyer's stupidity..Then again, thats the IBM way.

It would be nice if Commodore would try to push its machines as much.
"Yes, the 68000 is the fastest chip available.  You will certainly
 enjoy this new A600 or A500+."

-- Gerald
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Intel HW
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:56:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: ctr.1992Apr10.175616.29902
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.

jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>>
>>Well, if the Intel-based machine cannot even hope to compete, then why does
>>*my* 386 clone consistently perform better than a comparably equipped A3000?
>>Get the drift, Skip?  Your casual claim of Amiga superiority doesn't mean
>>squat without proof.
>
>Okay, here is a little proof for you.  I can go around the corner and start
>an ftp transfer from the PC to a Sun, walk back to my A3000, start a transfer
>of the same file, see that it is finished, walk back to the PC, and the PC is
>still doing the transfer.  The A3000 is on the same subnet as the PC and both
>are using 16bit Ethernet cards.
>

This depends more on the network card and software than the CPU or
architecture.  I've seen *very* good FTP transfer rates on PC's.  In all
honesty, though, I haven't seen any Amigas on networks.

>
>I can compile the C source to a fractal generator on both machines, with the
>necessary changes for the different graphics functions, and the A3000 will 
>not only compile the code in less time, the fractal is also generated in a 
>fraction of the time.  Both machines are using 16 color 640x480 screens and
>the only graphics calls (inside the main loop) are to set the color and draw
>a pixel.
>

That's *your* experience.  In *my* experience, Borland C++ 3.0 compiles
faster than anything I've ever seen anywhere, including the Amiga.  It
pre-compiles header files, so that they only have to be read once for the
whole project.  Is there an Amiga compiler that does this?

About your fractal, your example doesn't prove diddly.  Did the program
use FP?  Did the Amiga have an FPU?  Did the PC?  What graphics library
were you using on the PC?  In my experience, Windows 3.0 is *much* faster
on a decent VGA at 640x480x16 than Workbench on a similar graphics
configuration.  And Windows 3.1 is much faster than 3.0.

>
>Windows 3.x on the PC only makes things worse (I would love to try out OS/2,
>but no one here wants to try it until it is more commmonplace), but it is
>the only way that the PC can "multitask".
>

Windows is the only way the PC can multitask?  Try OS/2 and UNIX, and *then*
tell me that.

>Skip Sauls                     //    Graduate Student & Instructor
>skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu    \X/     CS Department, University of Mississippi 
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: pab@po.CWRU.Edu (Pete Babic)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Beer (was Re: New Amigas Announced!!!!)
Date: 13 Apr 92 04:39:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.1992Apr13.043908.19623
Reply-To: pab@po.CWRU.Edu (Pete Babic)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


In a previous article, 871579l@aucs.acadiau.ca (Todd Lowe) says:
>
>As for my favorite it's a local Maritime Canadian Ale called Keith's.
>Great beer.  I also drink Moosehead, another local brand, but I beleive
>that some other countries carry it.  I know a friend who worked in Sarnia
>Ontario once told me he had to go to Michigan to buy it since in Canada it
>is only available in the Maritimes (Atlantic provinces for that fella that
>posted from Newfoundland :-)  Kind of funny having to go to the States from
>Canada to buy a Canadian beer.

Moosehead is excellent beer, it's fairly popular here in Cleveland. Another
import I like is Becks Dark. There's a place down by the water front here
that has over 100 different brands of beer, some of the best are Dragon
Stout and Old Peculiar.

-- 
Pete Babic  -  pab@po.cwru.edu          ///
I'd rather be on a boat or a           ///  /\
roller coaster. Member of A.C.E  \\\  ///  /--\MIGA  
(American Coaster Enthusiasts)    \\\/// Humpty Dumpty was pushed!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: har@ux.acs.umn.edu (--SeebS--)
Subject: Re: Considering switching to IBM
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 06:33:40 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.035446.15509@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> nap42487@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Nishith A. Patel) writes:
>Once again, I do not know how my follow ups are going to other groups besides
>advocacy, but anyway:

Dunno. Edit the "Newsgroups" line, if your system will let you.

>Anyway, the 25 MHz 040 is only
>slightly faster than the 33 MHz 486 in raw speed floating point
>benchmarks.

Untrue. An '040 is three to five times faster in floating point. The
25 Mhz 040 is only slightly faster than a 33 Mhz 486 in *integer*.

>real application, it will be in a sorry state, cause the better the instruction
>set, the better off the app will be.

And, as everyone (including intel) knows, the '486 has a vastly
inferior instruction set. Intel engineers admit it; compatability with
the 8086, although it is a major selling point, is a *serious* liability
in practical terms.

>And a 50 MHz 486 will beat out an 040 in floating point benchmarks anyway.

No. A 75-100 Mhz '486 will beat out a 25 Mhz 040 in floating point. Sometimes.

And '040's running at 50 Mhz will be a hell of a lot easier to make than
'486's running at what, 150Mhz?

>Nish Patel   nap42487@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

Face it. The only advantage any intel platform has over any motorola
platform is that, if it happens to run MS-DOS, it's the most widely
distributed platform available. And that is not a technical advantage,
it's a practical one. Sooner or later, people *will* stop wanting to use
ten and twelve year old technology. And when they do, Motorola is better
off than Intel.

>P.S. If I find out how to direct these things to advocacy only, I will do so.

Follow up to this one; I fixed it. (What newsreader do you use? There
should be a line called "Newsgroups:" in your message header.)

-s
-- 
Peter Seebach, using my fiancee's acount. (Please use "SEEBS" in the subject
line, so we know who it's for.)  Polygamy: "There can be more than one."
"I love using MS-DOS - waiting for the machine gives me so much free time!"
har@ux.acs.umn.edu (Love Incarnate)
From: lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Intel HW
Date: 11 Apr 92 14:49:09 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <1992Apr10.175616.29902@ctr.columbia.edu>, jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
> 
> That's *your* experience.  In *my* experience, Borland C++ 3.0 compiles
> faster than anything I've ever seen anywhere, including the Amiga.  It
> pre-compiles header files, so that they only have to be read once for the
> whole project.  Is there an Amiga compiler that does this?

SAS & Aztec C's both do if I remember correctly allow one to precompile header
files. 
	What Amiga compilers have you seen in Action?

--
Jarkko Lindblad
lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: Apple "Loses" Look-and-Feel Lawsuit
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 04:46:35 GMT

jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) writes:
:   Suing Commodore would mean that Apple acknowledges it's existence and being
: a possible threat to their business.  I doubt that they'd do that.  Besides,
: isn't Commodore being more than effective already in squelching the Amiga?
: 
:   -jack-

I've got it!  The idea of the CENTURY!!!  Make AmigaDos 3.0 look
nearly exactly like the Mac!!!  It'll be great publicity!!!  I can see
the marketroids clamoring now...  as well as apple's lawyers, and C='s
wallets...

Not.

It's good to see they lost.  I hope they've learned their lesson(s)
and don't try to get someone else for the same thing.

Greg
-- 
"Walking in London, and you are watching me walk,      gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
 Talking Italian, and you are watching me talk,            Gregory R Block
 Singing in Sydney, and you are sitting right there,
 Feeling you with me, everywhere, everywhere."  -Concrete Blonde
From: tron1@tronsbox.UUCP (Kenneth Jamieson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Considering switching to IBM
Date: 14 Apr 92 01:17:11 GMT
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises Inc.

In article <1992Apr12.164341.21031@seas.gwu.edu> gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>
>I doubt he was playing these word games.  If he purchased the A1000 in 1985
>or 1986, then he probably calls it an 85/86 machine whether he upgraded or
>not.  This seems reasonable to me.  (Where did the guy run off to, anyway!)
>If he did upgrade, this in no way invalidates his point.  What other computer
>can be upgraded so that its first machine runs all current software?
>
>-- Gerald


	No, I was not playing word games. The machine is a stock A1000
from 85 (no halfbright) with 4.5 megs and a 20 meg HD, a 10 meg
removable Konica drive on a C.ltd crontroller.  It has a genlock on it
and a PP&S framegrabber.

	My point (that I already admitted was badly made) was that
while there have been evolutionary changes to the Amiga since that
time, there has been none that was revolutionary.

	For the most part, my 85 machine is as capable as the majority
of Amiga's sold in 91/92. And that is sad.

-- 

+--[ Xanadu Enterprises Inc. Lingerie, Consulting, RPG's and ANIME ]-+.sign
|  Please send email for detailed product or catalogue information!  |ature
|             Ken Jamieson: uunet!tronsbox.xei.com!tron1             |Virus
|---NONE of the opinions represented here are endorsed by anybody!---|V3.2
|              Original contents are Copyright (c)1992               |1992!
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: sctconno@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Dave Connors)
Subject: Re: Apple "Loses" Look-and-Feel Lawsuit
Organization: ITC, Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia
Date: 17 Apr 92 06:50:20 GMT

jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) writes:

>  Suing Commodore would mean that Apple acknowledges it's existence and being
>a possible threat to their business.  I doubt that they'd do that.  Besides,
>isn't Commodore being more than effective already in squelching the Amiga?

Yeah! Who needs another company to root the Amiga when C= are already
doing an admirable job!

-- 
WARNING: people quota (/sol/earth) exceeded  | Dave Connors              //
Delete all IBM owners        ----------------  D.Connors@sct.gu.edu.au \X/
God# rm -R *.IBM.people     |  " My opinions may have changed, but the 
God#                        |        fact that I am right hasn't. "
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: markb@csg.uwaterloo.ca (Mark Brezina)
Subject: Re: AppleEvents, how to they work?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 21:56:09 GMT

In article <56869@cup.portal.com> Lee_Robert_Willis@cup.portal.com writes:
>
>From your description, it sounds like AppleEvents provide a
>way for one application to drive the GUI of another.  e.g.
>For application A to get application B to open a file:
>
>   App A tells App B to display the 'Open" dialog
>   App A inserts the filename into the dialog
>   App A tells App B to click OK in the dialog
>   App B then opens the file.
>
>i.e. App B never knows it's not being driven by the user.
>
>*IF* this is the case, then as a user I prefer the AREXX method.
>An application's AREXX interface should provide the same
>functionality as the GUI, but is specifically tailored for a
>command line/script environment.  e.g. To get App A to tell
>app B to open a file, one does:
>
>   open "filename"
>
	You obviously have never programmed Apple Events.  It is quite common
to send an open document command from one application to another.  The actual
message consists of a few message identifiers and attached buffers.  One app
does tell the other to bring up the Open dialog, insert the file name, click
OK etc.  It simply tells it to open the file.

	The difference between Arexx and AppleEvents is that with Rexx you 
create an external script file to control the application.  With AE's you 
must embed the messages within an application, you can't execute an arbitrary
script file.  AppleEvents are NOT a language, it is a protocol.  (an in my
opinion a hack).  

>The difference between the two approaches is very pronounced for
>operations which one normally would need to do with the mouse
>like drag&drop.  e.g. How does one tell a drawing package to
>put a circle of radius R and thickness T at location X,Y.
>In AREXX, it would be something like:
>
>   CIRCLE X,Y,R,T
>

	You can create your own apple event message that can handle the 
exact same form of message as the one you describe above.

	Rexx is much more powerful and flexible than Apple Events.

						
						Mark Brezina
						Engineering Undergrad
						U of W.


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: CBM is a game machine company
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 06:26:58 GMT

In article <Les_Jenkins.074c@lppl.mi.org> Les_Jenkins@lppl.mi.org (Les Jenkins) writes:
>You'll get no flames from me on this one. I agree. CBM is just releasing
>game machines anymore. Although the drop in R&D is probably not as major as
>Marc Barret makes it sound like it is, it is still dismaying to hear in one
>report how CBM has broken a billion in sales recently and at the same time
>is still CUTTING R&D spending. 

   It is easy to blow off this drop in R&D spending, because the effects
of it are not immediate.  This makes you as short-sighted as the Commodore
management, in this regard.  As a general rule, you probably will not feel
the effects of an increase or decrease in R&D dollars today for about 2-3
years, depending on what projects were worked on.  Right now, the Amiga
community is still living off of the increase in R&D under Copperman,
three years ago.  If the Amiga is not doing very well right now, I would
cringe at the thought of how well it will be doing 2-3 years from now, when
the effects of the recent R&D drops start to hit.

>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>E-Mail to:     | If God had meant for Man to have meaningful signature    |
>Les@lppl.mi.org| files, then we would have been born with them!           |
>---------------| <Insert Cute ASCII picture here.>                        |
>               ------------------------------------------------------------

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
      <Insert your favorite one-liner here>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: fihsu@athena.mit.edu (Hsu I-wei)
Subject: Re: 040 and 486_
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 22:36:42 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.200531.17506@ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>In article <1992Apr13.214529.1@cc.helsinki.fi> lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi writes:
>>> 
>
>Youch!
>
>OK.  Apparently we agree that benchmarks don't tell you the absolute truth.
>Let's try then, to come up with some way that does tell you the absolute
>truth.  I leave this to you, since you seem to think that you already know
>the absolute truth.  I'd like to know how you arrived at your conclusion.

I think that Jarkko already gave his reasons for why the 040 is a faster chip.
Less clock cycles/instruction, copyback, and separate data and instruction
caches.  I'd like to see a comparison between equvilant 040 and 486 integer
instructions.  I do recall someone posting a table a long time ago, in which
most of the instructions took less clock cycles in the 040 than the 486.
However, perhaps the person was biased against the 486 and compared only a few
instructions in which the 040 was faster.  If anyone would like to compare
clock cycles for equvilant instructions between the two CPUs, I'd love to see
the table again.

>
>Oh, and Jarkko, try not to get so emotional, OK?  If this discussion is the
Hey, this is .advocacy.  :)
>type of stuff that makes you sweat and swear, I suggest you get a life.
                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                             and that doesn't help either.  :)

>
>>
>>Jarkko Lindblad
>>
>--
>+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
>| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
>| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
>|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |

Francis

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy