From: jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison)
Subject: Re: NDP "communism?" (was Re: A vote for Reform...)
Organization: University of BC, Electrical Engineering
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 07:26:48 GMT

In article <kkelly.9.0@TC1.ccs.ryerson.ca> kkelly@TC1.ccs.ryerson.ca (Kevin Kelly) writes:
>In article <1993Jan22.171516.28146@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>>From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
>>Subject: Re: NDP "communism?" (was Re: A vote for Reform...)
>>Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:15:16 GMT
>>In article <kkelly.8.0@TC1.ccs.ryerson.ca> kkelly@TC1.ccs.ryerson.ca (Kevin Kelly) writes:
>>>In article <1993Jan22.014114.1347@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>Automatic certification exists in Ontario. It seems to me a waste
>>>>>of money to run a vote when almost 50% of the possible voters have
>>>>>already committed themselves to vote for one side.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Democracy is never a waste of money...and a secret ballot is essential
>>>>to protect the rights of the individual.  But then the labour movement
>>>>has never been interested in democracy!
>>>
>>>On what do you base this pearl of wisdom. What is your experience of 
>>>Unions? Have you ever belonged to one? Or are you one of these "I know 
>>>people in Unions and...". Or do you base this statement on what you read in 
>>>the press?
>>>
>>
>>A secret ballot is essential to any democratic process...since labour
>>does not support a secret ballot for something as important as union
>>certification, labour can hardly be called democratic.
>
>Since you didn't answer my question I will rephrase it. Do you belong to a 
>union and been involved in a ratification process? 
>
>DO you know how unions operate. Many Unions in their own 
>constitution call for a secret ballot on elections and other votes. In fact 
>there is more democracy in a union than in most organizations I know. 
>
>The secret ballot on certification is a bit of red herring. If an individual 
>does not wish to join a union or have one in the workplace they do not have 
>to sign a card. Its as simple as that. 

Oh sure. Then if they aren't union members they can be fired, effectively
by the union. In the name of "democracy" (ie tyranny of the majority)
others are FORCED to belong to a union, to go on strike, to pay union dues
even if they don't want to. A union is not the moral equivalent of a 
government, or society where arguably (on shaky grounds) you CAN be forced
to comply with the will of the majority.

If unions are so great, then people do not have to be forced to join a
union as a condition of employment. Once again the good old statist,
collectivist, anti-individual nature of Canada and Canadas laws and charter
are used to crush individual liberty, in the name of the majority.
As if the mob is right simply because of its numbers.
>
>And dont bother with responding with the "union intimidation" defense used 
>by opponents of unions. Usually the intimidation comes from the company not 
>the unions. I know I was there. 
>

well don't tell me it's voluntarily. It's like "sign this confession, or
we execute you". Unions are just one example of the way an indivual's
liberty is sacrificed in the name of 'society'.
>
>>>Gerald
>>
>Kevin


-- 
__________________________________________________________________________
 John Paul Morrison                     |  
 University of British Columbia, Canada |  
 Electrical Engineering                 |   .sig file without a cause
 jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca              VE7JPM |  
________________________________________|_________________________________
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada