From: johnclif@microsoft.com (John Clifford)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: RE: 270 WIN which manufacturer?
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:18:40 GMT
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

I would recommend that you look at the Winchester M70 Super Grade in 
.270, if at all possible.  While these rifles list at $995, I've seen 
them around here for $650 -- $700 and for that price they are a bargain.

The Super Grades share the best features of the pre-'64 Model 70s 
(non-rotating claw extractor, controlled round feeding, excellent 
adjustable trigger) and the newer Model 70s (bolt guide in lug for 
smoother bolt travel and no binding during hurried reloading, perhaps 
the best stock design on an over-the-counter rifle today, and excellent 
workmanship and materials).  I own one of these rifles, in .338 
Winchester Magnum, and it shoots 1" groups with Federal Premium factory 
loads.  I also own a pre-'64 in .30-'06 which is a great rifle, but to 
be honest I think the new Super Grades are perhaps a touch _better_ -- 
I know the stock design is far better.

For hunting North American big game, I think I'd choose the .30-'06 
over the .270 if my quarry tended to be on the large side (mule deer, 
elk, caribou, bears) and/or if I wanted the flexibility offered by 
factory ammo (55 grain saboted .223 caliber bullets @ 4100 fps up to 
220 grains, including solids, for big and dangerous game).  You can't 
go wrong with the .30-'06.  But the .270, which is based on the '06 
case,  is also a fine caliber.

I have a couple of Ruger M77s, a Mark II and the first generation.  For 
the price they're good, but I mainly bought them because I didn't want 
to beat up my Model 70 in '06 while deer hunting for days in the rain.  
Rugers are inconsistent in accuracy -- one of my rifles does well to 
shoot around 1 1/2" while the other is a tack driver.  The triggers are 
also variable and hard for the user (even a relatively experienced one) 
to adjust satisfactorily without resorting to gunsmithing (the Mark II 
triggers are decent, if a little heavy, but are not adjustable -- you 
get what the rifle came with).  Considering that M77s go for around 
$525 or so in this neck of the woods, I'd spend the extra $150 or so 
and get the Winchester.

The Remington M700 and it's ilk (M7) are generally very accurate 
rifles.  I don't know of many people who complain about the groups they 
shoot with a Remington.  They have a good trigger mechanism that, if 
unsatisfactory out of the box, can be adjusted.  The Winchester M70 
(not the Super Grades) are also generally very accurate and well made.  
Make your choice between the regular Winchester and the Remington based 
upon which one you like better -- they're both good rifles.  IMO, the 
M70s have nicer stocks (wood quality, stock styling/fit, and finish) 
than the 700 BDLs, but the metalwork seems to be equivalent.  If the 
design (no claw extractors, button ejectors) of these bolt actions 
don't bother you, then I would probably buy one of these over a Ruger 
M77 -- chances are you'll get a more accurate rifle.

The Browning A-Bolt is a near-clone of the Weatherby Mark V action.  
They have the advantages of a shorter bolt throw due to 3 lugs instead 
of the two on Remington/Winchester/Ruger rifles, and have a very quick 
lock time.  They are also a very strong action and are able to handle 
pressure well (Remington M700s also do well in this department).  I 
don't know of anyone who owns one and who is dissatisfied with it.

Summary:  If a rifle will just be a tool to you and you don't want to 
spend a lot of money, go with a Remington, Winchester (not Super 
Grade), Ruger, or Savage 110.  If you want to spend just a _little_ 
more, go with the higher grades of these rifles or a Browning A-Bolt.  
If you really want a rifle, one that will _appreciate_ in value if well 
taken care of, if you like things of quality, buy a Super Grade.


John Clifford
Developer, Applications
Microsoft Corporation

Disclaimer:  I speak for me, Bill speaks for Microsoft.
Newsgroups: rec.hunting