HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Science and god:  Are they incompatible?  If so, why?
Date: 16 Nov 1992 15:35:58 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1e791lINNo0v@phakt.usc.edu>, pechever@phakt.usc.edu (Paul Echeverri) writes:
="Speaker, you're letting your Kzin blood get the better of you...we seem to
=have a semantics mixup here (my specialty ;).  A scientist has a model; those
=are the 'rules of the universe' as sie conceives them.  They may of course be
=updated; that's only sensible. Essentially, what I believe Randolph meant was
='Scientists constantly change their [conception (tacitly implied)] of the rules
=for [of is probably a better choice] the universe.  As for the rules being
=immutable, see below...I'm firmly on the fence there. 
="Randolph, would you agree that's basically what you meant?"
="Speaker, would you agree that if that is what Randolph meant, this particular
=disagreement you have with him would'nt apply?"

If that's what he meant, I'd agree.  However, given the rest of his statement,
I find it difficult to believe that's what he meant.  Remember, the full text
of the question to which I was responding was ""Scientists constantly change
their rules for the universe--why shouldn't god?"  That question makes sense
only if the phrase "rules for the universe" means the same thing when you're
talking about scientists' "rules for the universe" and god's "rules for the
universe."  I was pointing out that the phrase means two entirely different
things in those two applications.  The map is NOT the territory. (btw, I think
the phrase might be from Korzybsky).

=]there have been MANY claims both of paranormal abilities and miracles; neither
=]have held up under close scrutiny, to the best of my knowledge.
=
="Well, Speaker...some would say that 'faith' and 'vibes' do affect the matter;
=while that certainly makes proof hell, that's what the concept of faith is all
=about."

I know some would say that.  I pointed out in one of the paragraphs you deleted
that many DO say that.  I merely pointed out that if a god who works miracles
exists, then he seems to exhibit the shyness effect so beloved by paranormalists
as an explanation of why they can't do anything a stage magician couldn't.
From: mjmh@crsa.bu.edu (Michael J M Holmes)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Another introduction...
Date: 19 Nov 92 16:46:52 GMT
Organization: Boston University Center for Remote Sensing

In article <1ef2d2INNj3a@gap.caltech.edu> lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:

>Hmmm.  The first SF book I ever read was called _Danny_Dunn_and_the_Antigravity_
>_Paint_.  Don't remember whether I was in first grade or second when I read it.
>First, I think.

"Hey, I remember that - there was a whole series of those!"

/* ponders for a moment.

"Last year my Mom discovered a whole box of my books in the cellar.
In it were copies of 'Danny Dunn, Scientific Detective' and another 
that was called 'Danny Dunn, Time Traveller' (I think).  I probably
read these in the third or fourth grade."

"I re-read those two when I picked them up from my Mom.  Not only
did it 'take me back' but I *enjoyed* reading them - I guess I
haven't gotten that far away from my childhood!"

"Anyways, here's to Danny Dunn!"



-- 
========================================================================
Mike Holmes       mjmh@crsa.bu.edu           "Happiness Will Prevail!"
Boston University Department of Geography (a truly GREAT place to work!)
========================================================================
From: s903040@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Christopher Francis Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Invisible Feathers
Date: 17 Nov 1992 04:32:03 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au

braley@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca  (The Didi-Sprite) writes:


>Poor Feather!  McGill has been having have problems with both its
>mail and news servers lately.

The ThunderKat gets off whoever he was sitting on at the time and says

//That's nothing! Here at RMIT, minyos keeps going down like a leaky sub, and
we can't do *anything* at all!//


-- 
ThunderKat (a.k.a. Chris Anderson)    s903040@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au

"Sam pressed the button. A few lights flashed on the CPU. And another human
life ended. Somehow, it's always sad, no matter what."
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: u906451@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Damien Saunders)
Subject: Silly Sayings
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 05:04:06 GMT

These two come from Stephen Wright a US comic. Maybre slightly paraphrased due
toi bad memory.

"Curiosity killed the cat but for a while i was a suspect"

[Please do not be offended by that one kitten]

"I tease my ptoplants by watering them with ice cubes"

Now onto the exam front I only have two left Tuesday morning and friday afternoon.

Damien.
--
"This damned asteroid belt is full of...asteroids"
Robert French _Now, The Gods_
Damien Saunders (Gunnar Njalsson SCA) Email:u906451@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk (Mary Branscombe)
Subject: Re: Introduction (was Eh?)
Reply-To: maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:00:00 +0000


walker@superboy.jsc.nasa.gov (Cybernetic Samurai) says
>"Howdy," he says, "the names Doug, but most folks know me as the 
>Cybernetic Samurai. I'm a newbie in these parts but know of this 
>place by reputation."


hello Doug/Samurai, says Mary
is that a katana I see before me (behind you)?

+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+
| Ommmmmm, said the lift                    |maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk |
| Organisation: Me? You're joking, right?   |maryb@cix.compulink.uucp  |
|I know I type "teh" for "the" My fingers have their own accent ;-)    |
+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk (Mary Branscombe)
Subject: Re:  Science and god:  Are they incompatible?  If so, why?
Reply-To: maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:09:00 +0000


mayyybe... it's OK if you're doing it to have kids, even though you 
know you can't (without some sort of miracle - scientific or 
religious), then it's your *intention* that matters? If you do it 
*intending* to have a kid, it's OK.
hee-hee. That's a lovely knotty problem Abner

IMHO if sex is only OK for procreation in their eyes, then the 
Catholic Church should be encouraging AIDS tests and VD clinics. From 
what I've been told by Catholic frinds here and in Ireland, many 
church members have a very head-in-sand attitude (religion2 in my 
earlier definition)
+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+
| Ommmmmm, said the lift                    |maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk |
| Organisation: Me? You're joking, right?   |maryb@cix.compulink.uucp  |
+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+
From: JBrandt@AAA.UOregon.EDU (Jay Brandt (Jason))
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Splash! <gurgle>
Followup-To: alt.callahans
Date: 20 Nov 1992 17:07:49 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon, Architecture
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: aaa.uoregon.edu

Um, Splash!,

I tried to send you a reply to your e-mail about my 'Silk and Steel'
Cyberpunk series, and it bounced back to me.
_______________________________________________________________________________
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem on Fri, Nov 20, 1992 9:00 AM
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To: Brandt, Jay

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
421 Host possum.edu.au not found for mailer ether.
550 <keulen@possum.edu.au>... Host unknown
_______________________________________________________________________________
Any idea what went wrong? I'll hold your return letter until the address
works or you give me an alternate to e-mail it to you at.

Jason
From: ajm@wag.caltech.edu (Abner J. Mintz)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: God and Science:  The Ramblings of The Nightstalker
Date: 21 Nov 92 01:16:23 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: davinci.wag.caltech.edu

>/* pauses a moment, because right now any SO in his life is strictly
>hypothetical!

>"In the case you mention, I would feel hurt and angry, absolutely!  But
>I've often been angry with my mother, hurt by my brother, etc - yet I
>*still* loved them!  With this rather unpleasant SO that you mention,
>I would *immediately* reevaluate the relationship, probably plummet out 
>of love, but probably retain 'love' in the wider sense.  With such
>strong emotional ties, I don't thing I could (or have ever been able to)
>lose the broader feeling of love for someone I once was 'in love' with."

Abner nods.  "That's pretty much what happened to me when my fiance dropped
me a month before the wedding.  I spent about two weeks feeling absolutely
numb, then realized that I still cared for her and still loved her ... but
that I no longer wanted anything but friendship from her!"

"Of course, now she wants to get back together, and can't understand why 
I'm reluctant.  Yes, I still love her.  No, I don't want to marry her, or
even date her - a person who would drop me like that isn't the person I
want to spend my life with."
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: arsmith@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Alan Smith)
Subject: Re: Science and god:  Are they incompatible?  If so, why?
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:22:00 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

Big Al.  Fresh from some involving things in real.life, returneth to
callahans.

In article <1e791lINNo0v@phakt.usc.edu> pechever@phakt.usc.edu (Paul Echeverri) writes:
>In article <1e6j38INN951@gap.caltech.edu] lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:
>]In article <RANDOLPH.92Nov15125813@cognito.ebay.Sun.COM],
>]As someone (I can't remember who, can someone tell me?)
>]put it quite aptly:  The map is NOT the territory.  Scientific theories are NOT
>]the laws of the universe.  They're our current best approximations to those
>]laws.

Golomb's Don'ts Of Mathematical Modeling: (#4) Don't beleive that the model
is reality.  (Catch phrase: Don't eat the menu)

Quite possibly the only time in recorded history he managed to pull the right
quote from that murphy book on the first try.
>
>]The idea that human belief systems
>]determine objective reality is an amusing one, and has been used as the basis
>]for at least one science fictional short story.  But I doubt you'll find any
>]scientists who believe that to be true (some psychologists and philosophers on
>]the other hand, seem quite willing to make that argument).
>
>"An entire novel, actually--Heinlein's _Number of the Beast_.  Fictons are

Read it.  Wasn't really about human beliefs determining objective reality,
more like classic literature.  (Well, it's hard to describe)

>Objective reality, now: THAT's an amusing concept."

Objective reality is the experiantial reality for the entire universe.

Big Al.  Heees Baaack.  (Hide!)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: wyang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (William D Yang)
Subject: Re: God and Science: The Ramblings of The Nightstalker
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 19:41:23 GMT

Guys... there are two different types of morality being discussed.
There's the morality of the AGENT, and the morality of the ACTION.
 
The distinction has been lost, and is making for some very strange
cases and claims about relativism, absolutism, and the like.
 
	-Bill  (ethical theorist maybe wannabe).
From: mjmh@crsa.bu.edu (Michael J M Holmes)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: takeoff ! Re: dance for /*
Date: 23 Nov 92 16:15:53 GMT
Organization: Boston University Center for Remote Sensing

In article <1992Nov21.091043.24931@ra.msstate.edu> jmpierce@whale.st.usm.edu (Jimmy Malcolm Pierce) writes:

>>/* sticks a purple pinky into his left ear, and wiggles it around.
>>"I guess so.  Wow, Linda's pretty picky about dance partners!

>     "Well, not picky no. But you'll find out, " DJ.

>     Linda starts dancing with Mike Holmes, as they go out the French Doors
>into the meadow, they take off straight up ! { I did mention that
>Linda is a Starship, did I not ? }  Linda, realizing that Mike Holmes
>might not have known she is a Starship, levels off at 500 feet.

>     Linda starts into dance routine one, to sort of loosen up..

>     Catherine Wheel, Turn About Wheel, a gain in altitude is necessary,
>   a sharp up turn to 3,000 feet. { Oxygen provided  ! }
>A demi-semi-glide and revolve about 6 axis is accomplished. Then the Finale !


>        Linda and Mike Holmes slowly return to The Place.

>        Thank you for the dance Mike, " Linda.

>        "Well Mike Holmes, How did you like it ? " DJ.

>        "Here's a glass of ice water, " Robbie.

"Wow!  *That's* what I call dancing!!"

A purple hand reaches out for the ice water, and the liquid and
the glass it is in, predictably, begin to turn purple.

"Thanks, I think I need it!"

He starts to smooth his clothes back into place, and then
whips out a purple comb to *try* to get his hair to look like
anything other than the "finger in a light socket" 'do he has now.
Slowly, the earth starts to feel more solid under
the purple suede shoes.

"Thank *you* for the dance, Linda - I enjoyed it
very much!  It was an (dare I say it?) uplifting experience!
And I would be honored to dance with you again in the
future!"

:)


-- 
========================================================================
Mike Holmes       mjmh@crsa.bu.edu           "Happiness Will Prevail!"
Boston University Department of Geography (a truly GREAT place to work!)
========================================================================
From: pechever@phakt.usc.edu (Paul Echeverri)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Rejoice, and Velvet reels
Date: 19 Nov 1992 18:53:35 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu

In article <1992Nov18.171704.14309@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu] mfbertke@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Mary Bertke....Gwen MacThaidhg) writes:
]The door slams open and of form familiar to some comes rushing in, the bouncing
]stride of her run taking her several feet into the air with each stride.  Her
]paisley skirt tries to carry her on as she comes to a stop, but she manages to
]hold, and shouts exaltantly:
]
]"MICK MOLONEY AGREED TO INTERN ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
]
[deletia ref. Celtic music, anthro, and lit]

Impu-Sebek wakes with a start--he seems disoriented.  He glares around for a
moment, then fixes the offender with a steely eye for a while before settling
back to his much needed sleep.
He mumbles..."'Grats kid...only not so loud nex' time, ok?"
He fumbles in his greatcoat for a moment, then sails a large, ornate disk
towards the lovely child. "'Ave a pentacle, daughter of Branwen...nex' drink's
on me."
And blessed sleep once more claims him, his cocoa mug steaming in front of his
From: ajm@wag.caltech.edu (Abner J. Mintz)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Another introduction...
Date: 21 Nov 92 00:57:52 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: davinci.wag.caltech.edu

Windsinger writes:
>>"The first science fiction book I remember picking up was a trilogy
>>by John Christopher - I think the first book was 'THe City of Gold
>>and Lead' or something like that.  This was sometime in early grade
>>school.  I was fascinated by it, though, and picked up everything of
>>his the library had - then moved on to Bradbury, then Asimov... 
>>by then I was hooked!"

>"The White Mountain", "City of Gold and Lead", and -- darn, what is the
>third one called.  John Christopher's "Tripods" trilogy, whatever.  "The
>White Mountain" might easily be the first SF I read as well, I certainly
>read it as a pre-teen.  I might have started on my father's collection of
>John Wyndham before that...

Abner laughs.

"We both forgot the third book in the series!  I really am going to have to
go home and check.  "The Pools of Fire", maybe?  That doesn't sound quite
right ..."
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk (Mary Branscombe)
Subject: Re: UK Realspace
Reply-To: maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 01:39:00 +0000


I'm in Bath and I've met Ignatz... and I'll meet whoever's in 
Cambridge next weekend...
I know Ignatz has some pictures of people from a previous 
realspace...You're going to neeed a *very* big piece of paper to work 
this one out...... Got an old tablecloth aroud Mike?
Mary frowns to herself and counts on her fingers for a minute (no 
mathematician she).... I fixed my usenet feed wednesay morning, and I 
met up with Ignatz wednesday evening..... is under ten hours a record 
for an impromptu realspace? 
Looking forward to meeting people on this side of the monitor (as it 
were)

mary
apprentice potter
+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+
| Ommmmmm, said the lift                    |maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk |
| Organisation: Me? You're joking, right?   |maryb@cix.compulink.uucp  |
|I know I type "teh" for "the" My fingers have their own accent ;-)    |
+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+

Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: li@Data-IO.COM (Phyllis Rostykus)
Subject: Re: superman
Organization: Data I/O Corporation
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 19:54:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.080754.21958@midway.uchicago.edu> esti@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>Snark concurs strongly with Michael's recommendation of Alan Moore's
>"Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow" Superman story, then gets
>down to replying briefly to Alan's comments...

Liralen as well.  Alan Moore's work aways surprises and delights her...

>>But if it ain't a stunt... well, it will be a sad day for comics, leaving the
>>Dark Knight to carry the DC torch - not that that would be bad in itself, mind
>>you, Bats is more than up to that task, but Supes has always been the
>>undisputed number one, and for him to fall from grace after such long service
>>would be a great shame...

"Mmmhmm..." says Liralen with a nod. "Thing is that Superman was always the
*really* Good guy.  The one who was sometimes even anally retentive
(according to Bats) about *doing* what was Right, and what was the
American Way.  He was an embodiment of what was pure and what was just.
There was little of controversy in his stories on the most part.  Perhaps
Bats is more up to the task of today's world; but Superman was Batman's
balancing element, the one being that could pull Batman out from his
darkness, and the one being that still believed in Good.  Perhaps DC has
no need for such an 'outmoded concept' but I, for one, have missed him for
some time, as DC seemed to think that Superman *is* too corny to be
popular."

>I no longer read any mainstream DC comics, because one by one all the
>titles I used to read have disappointed me.  (The Mature Readers title
>_Sandman_, on the other hand, is still great!)

She grins at the Snark's enthusiasm. "Yeah.  I agree.  I love _Sandman_ and
the way it bends the mind.  Also been reading a lot of the off-core comics.
I like _Green Arrow_ partially because it's set in Seattle.  I get almost
anything Frank Miller writes, and I've enjoyed the Marvel Man series."
-- 
Liralen Li           | "... and how you feel can make it real  | - _US_
aka Phyllis Rostykus | Real as anything you've seen            |   Peter
li@Data-IO.com       | Get a life with this dreamer's dream."  |   Gabriel
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re:  Science and god:  Are they incompatible?  If so, why?
Date: 19 Nov 1992 13:07:05 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Nov19.033314.13041@muddcs.claremont.edu>, dgreen@jarthur.claremont.edu (David Green) writes:
=In article <1eefs2INN59v@gap.caltech.edu> lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:
=->In article <1992Nov18.203953.4479@muddcs.claremont.edu>, dgreen@jarthur.claremont.edu (David Green) writes:
=->=->"I don't know" is now a belief?
=->=
=->=To answer a question with a question: How would an agnostic respond if I
=->=were to ask, "What do you believe about God?"
=->
=->An agnostic would respond along the lines of "The question is ill-formed.  I
=->don't know whether or not god exists, so how can I possibly believe anything
=->about it?"
=
=*cough* What it looks like to me is that the person _believes_ that s/he cannot
=know whether God exists.  Unless you can point out to me how this differs
=significantly from what you just said?

I'll be glad to answer your question if you'll tell me what you think of the
color of the shirt I'm wearing.

NOW do you see the distinction?
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: God and Science: The Ramblings of The Nightstalker
Date: 21 Nov 1992 05:22:57 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Nov21.040728.26398@midway.uchicago.edu>, mss2@quads.uchicago.edu (Michael S. Schiffer) writes:
>It's the potentially injurious speech and religion and publication that the
>amendment and the principle behind it are supposed to protect, with
>only _very_ carefully considered exceptions.  (Call me a hypocrite if
>you will, but I'll not object to laws against libel or against human
>sacrifice.  Conversely, laws requiring paid permits for peaceful
>demonstrations on public property, and laws forbidding the use of
>hallucinogens in religious ceremonies go too far, IMHO.)"

I think that in some cases, paid permits for peaceful demonstrations on public
property might be reasonable.  For example, requiring a deposit against the
cost of cleaning up after such a demonstration seems eminently reasonable to
me.  If the demonstrators leave the property in good shape, they get their
deposit back.  If not, the money goes to pay the workers who have to clean up
after the demonstrators.  But on the whole, I agree with you.
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: God and Science:  The Ramblings of The Nightstalker
Date: 18 Nov 1992 00:11:41 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Nov17.174943.3622@data-io.com>, li@Data-IO.COM (Phyllis Rostykus) writes:
=>Well, if we're going to argue by analogy without presenting arguments as to why
=>the analogies might be valid, try this one:
=>	I believe injecting 22 units of insulin every morning is good, but it
=>	might not be good for somebody else.
=>OK, now we've got one analogy proving that moral relativism is silly, and one
=>analogy proving that moral relativism is well-grounded.
=>
=>Either that or we've got an example of why arguing by analogy doesn't work.
=
=Liralen giggles, "Especially when neither analogy contains a moral situation."

StM says, "Oh, I dunno about that.  I don't think it would be very moral of me
to go around injecting everyone in sight with 22 units of insulin every
morning.  It works for me.  That doesn't mean I should try to force it on
everyone."