From: auer@cs.swarthmore.edu (David S. Auer)
Newsgroups: alt.feminism,rec.humor
Subject: Re: Feminist Jokes
Date: 5 Nov 92 09:20:30 GMT
Organization: Swarthmore College, PA

In article <1992Nov2.043610.1545@netcom.com> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
>In article <JMLSBX8Y@cc.swarthmore.edu> auer@cs.swarthmore.edu (David S. Auer) writes:
>>In article <JIM.92Oct27222122@fuji.eng.yale.edu> jim@fuji.eng.yale.edu (James J. Szinger) writes:
>>>>Q: How many feminists does it take to change a light bulb?

JJS>I haven't seen my favorite answer yet:

JJS>Four.  One to change the bulb, one to complain that the bulb is
JJS>violating the socket, one to secretly wish she were the socket,
JJS>and one to secretly wish she were the bulb.

DSA>I like that joke; I thought it was funny.  I like pornography; I find it
DSA>erotic.

DSA>Nonetheless, I find both the joke and pornography to be offensive, not in and
DSA>of themselves, but because they are tools for maintaining the current power
DSA>imbalance in society.

RP>Does this actually mean -anything-? Does this "power balance" argument mean
RP>anything, anything at all?

Yes, there are more men in positions of control over the lives of other people.

RP>Can you show me one example in all of human history where there was any
RP>sort of a power balance between, or even among the sexes?

No.

RP>Please do. Tell me what this means. If it means that reality does
RP>not conform to your expectations, I got news for ya, it never will. And
RP>more news, it ain't the way I'd prefer it either.

Not my expectations.  My notions of justice.

RP>Deal with it.

DSA>I am no hypocrite, simply a pragmatist.  

RP>I do not see the hypocrisy connection, but then, I see nothing at all
RP>practical or realistic either.

DSA>I look around at the world and I see a lot more injustices directed at
DSA>women than men.  Simple observation.  From that I decide that the
DSA>injustices should be fought.  I am not perfect nor am I particularly
DSA>powerful, thus my impact upon these issues may be small.

RP>Well, if you are a male, use some of that "power imbalance" to fix the 
RP>problem and stop whining about it. Apologies if I incorrectly assumed
RP>that David is a male name.

I would be happy to.  I am not in a position of power though.

RP>BTW, do you believe that counter injustices and legislation with either a
RP>pro-female or anti-male bias will make the world a better place in which
RP>to live? Many seem to feel that it is the only way to change things.

I don't think we need to go to extremes.

DSA>Neither this limitation nor the fact that there exists grave resistance and
DSA>that not all of my efforts will succeed release me of the responsibility to
DSA>behave conscientiously.

RP>Nor myself. But failing to fall in line with the PC feminist movement
RP>will make you unpopular in some circles. And it has even cost men their
RP>jobs. I will have to post that tidbit later.

You are correct.  More circles are male chauvinist than the extremes of PC you
allude to.

DSA>Search your hearts.  From there springs the truth.  

RP>No, from there springs your feelings. That you feel opressed does not
RP>make anyone your oppressor. Your feelings are an accurate gauge of how
RP>your training and past interact with the present situation. They are not
RP>an accurate gauge of the world, what it means, or even what has happened.

You got me there.  Do you think I learned?  Somehow I doubt it.

DSA>Those who are anti-feminists ignore their hearts cries for justice or
DSA>ignore their senses which tell them women are opressed.  

RP>There are those who see that not all feminist claims are valid (do you feel
RP>that they are automatically valid), and that many feminist solutions are
RP>worse than the problems that they are to solve.

Point taken.  I will try from now on try to think with my brain and eyes before
posting lame stuff up on the board.

DSA>Either way, anti-feminists diminish themselves.

RP>And some feminists diminish us all. We cannot afford to satisfy any extreme.

-dave
Newsgroups: alt.feminism