From: jcgoh@inline.Princeton.EDU (Justin C. Goh)
Subject: Re: SPIRITUALIZED and PAVEMENT
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 06:29:14 GMT

In article <1992Aug6.154614.11885@src.honeywell.com>  
schmidt@iasdv1.iasd.honeywell.com writes:
 
> This isn't about how much money I spent or how much I could have wasted 
> instead, its about misrepresentation.  And I'll blame anyone who gives 
> me a lame-ass comparison such as the one given to me.

Well, if your point truly is misrepresentation, then consider this:
as I pointed out, I think you GREATLY misrepresent these two bands.
If your true point of contention is misrepresentation, then this
is something you are guilty of.  I believe this is called hypocrisy.
 

> >think the music is genius.  I'd like to see you write anything 
> >approaching the complexity of Spiritualized. 
> 
> Now you've turned this towards my writing capabilities!  What the hell does
> that have to do with anything.  Oh, I forgot....only great composers can 
> express their feelings towards other's music... yeah, that makes sense! And 

Point taken.  There is the old adage about not criticizing someone else
until you try it yourself.  But its relevance here is debatable.  Again,
point taken.

> as far as "complexity?"  Does a little ambiance and a "hammer dulcimer" 
> (as you put it) justify the "god-like, genius" status you've label this
> CD as?  

No, that in itself does not.  I did not mean that at all, and if you gave
me an credit for being semi-lucid, you would no that I didn't mean that
in the first place.  My point was how many bands do you know that use
a hammer dulcimer?  I mean, half the people out there don't even know
what one looks like.  In my opinion, Jason has crafted an incredibly
complex album full of interesting instruments, sounds, rhythms, etc.
You obviously disagree, which I can do nothing about.

>I not saying that I particularly despise Spiritualized, because of
> few tracks are worth a listen, but far from genius.

Again, I disagree. I DO think it is genius.

 > As for as my "semi-sarcastic" viewpoint on the music, my intent was not to
> review the music, since at that point it had only graced my ears 
> three times.  And in this short duration, I'll be damned if I didn't come 
> a hell of a lot closer, than the description of a Manchester sounding band 
> and JMC.  

Three times?  I thought so.  First of all, I know you weren't trying to
review the music.  But as you yourself state, your bone of contention is
that this music was misrepresented to you.  I turn this around on you and
say that you are guilty of the same thing, so you really have no right to
complain.  Again, this is hypocrisy on your part to decry something of 
which you yourself are guilty.  


> >Lou Reed?  Huh?  Lou has a pretty deep voice in case you haven't
> >noticed.  Yeah it was a little higher back in the VU days, but not
> >that much.  I can't think of anyone who sounds remotely like Lou
> >Reed, much less Pavement. 
> O.K. let's get out the voice analyzer and break down every pitch, through
> every bar and see if every word sounds.........go suck an egg!   My point 
> again is  not to be construed as EXACTLY like it, but Lou Reed's 
> "talk-like" vocals bear a resemblence to Pavement's style on SOME of the
> songs.  As for this childish music, I still think it sucks.  

I see your point, which did not occur to me originally.  I do agree with 
you that both S.M. and Lou both use a sort of talk-sing style.  But Lou
Reed is quite a comparison to make.  Along with a unique, distinctive
style, he also carries a sort of icon quality.  It's kind of like
comparing someone to, say...Elvis or Neil Young.  These sorts carry 
such a one-of-a-kind aura that you provoke a knee-jerk reaction (such as
mine) that there's no way that anyone is similar to that person. Anyway,
I still think that there's very little similarity between S.M. and Lou.
But like I said, I think S.M. would be flattered.


>Diddo for
> Poster Children.  Granted _If You See Kay_ is a great song, but the album 
> as a whole is unbelievably weak.

Wow, you, uhh, really undermine your argument here with a rather large
misspelling.  Hey, I'm not trying to be petty.  If I wanted to, I could 
have made a nasty petty remark about it.  But, nevertheless, it kind of 
makes me not take you seriously.

 > >The Pavement and Spiritualized albums are definitely two of the
> >best albums of the year.  I guess if you don't like them, then
> >that's your loss.  But I would suggest you listen to them a 
> >lot more closely.  I think you are missing something significant.
> >I'm not trying to be preachy, but I think it's sad if you don't
> >like them.
 
> Sorry if you feel that by not liking this music that I'm "...missing
> something significant...", that's pretty humorous!   I'm glad you've the
> "seen the light" of this particular style of music, but to only mention 
> the above albums as your favorite of the year, doesn't represent a 
> very diversified blend of music.  It seems you may need to venture into
> others fields and not over-glorify one particular sound.
> Peace... for a price.
> Kreg Schmidt 

I'm kind of lost for words here.  "One particular sound"?  I don't know
what you're listening to, but I seems rather incredulous to me that
you think Pavement and Spiritualized sound the same.  I'm also not 
trying to "over-glorify" a sound.  Oh by the way, exactly which "sound"
would that be?  Like I said before, Spiritualized is pretty spacey,
ambient music while Pavement is very bobby and rocking.  There ain't
no similarity there in my book.  

Oh yeah.  As for my musical tastes, I happen to be a radio DJ and I
usually do about 3 jazz shows a week (on top of my 2 rock shows).  
Now, I'm down to the occasional classical/opera show, but I had 
a weekly classical show for the whole spring.  I could go on and on 
about other genres I like, but I think you get the picture.  So...
exactly what music would you suggest I listen to?  I'd be 
interested in hearing what you think is interesting and eclectic.
Rather, I think you should be careful about future insults lest 
you look foolish again.

Look, I never meant to attack you.  Rather, I wanted to point some
important things out to you that you didn't seem to realize.  As for
these two albums themselves, they are indeed some of the best music
I've ever heard.  By your own admission, you've only listened to
the Spiritualized 3 times.  I suggest you listen to it more.  Try
playing it loud, by yourself, and in the dark.  For a truly full
experience, try some weed.  Ditto for the Pavement, listen to it
more.  It may grow on you.  Hey, I love this music.  Since I
truly think it's good, how can you fault me for trying to recommend 
it.  If you really loved something, wouldn't you want others to
listen to it too?  

So chill out.  Don't take this too personally.  If you never like
either of these albums, so be it.  You probably don't like me 
anyway so just say to yourself "Hey, I hate these damn albums,
and that Justin guy is just a stupid jerk who doesn't know crap.
Why the hell should I listen to him?"  Hey, it's not going to
hurt my feelings.  But like I said, I really like this music and
I hope that I can persuade you and others to like it too.

- Justin Goh
jcgoh@phoenix.princeton.edu

P.S.  The sucking eggs comment was really funny :-).

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