HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stephan@STACK.URC.TUE.NL (Stephan Eggermont)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: (none)
Date: 26 Aug 92 11:16:48 GMT
Reply-To: Modula2 List <INFO-M2%UCF1VM.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU>
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet
X-Unparsable-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 12:59:30 MED

To: Modula2 List <INFO-M2%UCF1VM.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: Oberon-2 Compiler
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Organization: MCGV Stack, Eindhoven University of Technology, the Netherlands.

In article <9208250737.aa02868@thama1.apgea.army.mil> you write:
:     I am trying to find out what interest there is in a native code Oberon-2
:     compiler for the 80386 running under MS-DOS that generates pure
:     executables (not loadable modules like Oberon386 from ETH).
:
:     Given that it generated 386 (not 80x86) code:

I suppose you also want to support memory beyond 640k?

:     How interested would you be: (not at all, moderately, extremely)

Extremely, but I'm only a student, so financial issues have some influence.
How are you going to arrange garbage-collection, I wouldn't like to have to
write a collector for every program I write.

:     What would you consider a fair price: (<$100, $100 <= x <= $250, >$250)

This depends very much on the libraries you want to include, and the compiler
efficiency. And of course the development environment. If you want your
compiler to become a mass-market product, you have to price it below $100
(and do something about those awful uppercase keywords), and you need
something like the Borland environment.

:     Would price be a deciding factor in a purchase?

Yes.

:     Would you be less interested if it required a separate linker?

No, but at least try to integrate it in an environment. Of course I don't
have that many library functions I would have to rewrite.

:     How interested would you be in an Oberon-2 to C++ translator?

Not.

:     How interested would you be in an Oberon-2 to Ada translator?

Not.

:     Please describe why you are (or are not) interested in Oberon-2.  Also,
:     please describe why you would want to have an Oberon-2 compiler.

Oberon-2 is an elegant language, and there are some programs I want to write,
for which Oberon-2 would be an adequate language.

:     Please mail responses directly to me (thutt@thama1.apgea.army.mil), and
:     I will post the results I receive.  All answers will remain anonymous.

Please keep me informed on the progress you make.

Stephan
stephan@blade.stack.urc.tue.nl
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
From: sakkinen@jyu.fi (Markku Sakkinen)
Subject: Re: Looking for a reference
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 09:14:20 GMT

In article <apj.72.714854731@cs.sun.ac.za> apj@cs.sun.ac.za (Andries Dippenaar) writes:
>A short while back, somebody mentioned that Hans-Peter Moessenboeck has 
>published a paper in the ACM SIGplan (I think).  It relates to some new 
> ...

"Treating Statement Sequences as Block Objects", SIGPLAN Notices, Aug. 1992,
p. 83 - 86 (so it's quite short).  The author's e-mail address is
moessenboeck@inf.ethz.ch  -- I would be pretty surprised if he hadn't
got it in an electronically distributable form.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Markku Sakkinen (sakkinen@jytko.jyu.fi)
       SAKKINEN@FINJYU.bitnet (alternative network address)
Department of Computer Science and Information Systems
University of Jyvaskyla (a's with umlauts)
PL 35
SF-40351 Jyvaskyla (umlauts again)
Finland
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: AL282389@VMTECSLP.BITNET (Enrique Motilla)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: LIM ?
Date: 29 Aug 92 01:04:36 GMT
Reply-To: Modula2 List <INFO-M2%UCF1VM.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU>
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

Hello Modulants!

    One question....

    I'm using TopSpeed M-2 Ver. 3.1 and i don't know how to use the LIM
    Library for the EMS

    Does any of you had used it?
    Can give an example?

    AND..
       Does any one know if there are a File Manager for programming
       in Modula for Windows?  (Btrees, etc...)

       And how & where can I get them ?


    Suggestions are well received......

    Tanks in advance......

                         8) := Enrique Motilla Moreno
                               ITESM Campus San Luis Potosi, Mexico

    "QUESTION := POINTER TO BE OR NOT POINTER TO BE"  ;)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
From: jw@owf.uu.ch (Juerg Wanner)
Subject: Re: Oberon-2: Type Bound Proc question
Organization: OWF AG Zurich, Switzerland
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 07:40:23 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.124659.25394@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu> larry@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Larry Maturo) writes:
>
>I think I am finally able to understand what is going on.  You don't want to
>pass an object by value since you could not change it's state, which makes no
>sense since changing it's state is one of the primary things you do with an
>object.  Espically since in Oberon-2 you can already mark fields as read only
>so there should never be a case where you have a type bound procedure that
>does not change an objects state.  This being the case the only way you can
>pass it is as a pointer or a VAR parameter.

I think you get something wrong here. As a type-bound procedure has to be
defined in the same module as the type it's bound to, it always has write
access to all fields of that (record-)type (except of course the fields that
are inherited from its supertype and that are not exported or exported as
read-only). I also don't see why you don't want an object's method to be
able to change the object?

Juerg Wanner	jw@owf.ch
OWF AG
Asylstr. 125
8032 Zuerich
Switzerland
From: gee@okcadm.okanagan.bc.ca
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: <None>
Date: 27 Aug 92 09:51:48 GMT
Organization: Okanagan College

after much playing around and some help from the multiscope technical
people, most of my problems (so far) are solved.

mm2assist is not documented in the manuals. there is a limit of 1024
characters in all templates that it contains. this is not really enough
if you want to expand the templates to contain more documentation, as i
am doing for my students.

thanks to those who replied.
From: Tony.Ewell@f590.n139.z1.fidonet.org (Tony Ewell)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: GPIB (IEEE-488) source code for M2
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 12:02:24 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:139/590 - PMI BBS, Green Bay WI

Does anyone out there know of Modula2 source code for the National Instruments GPIB card? (General Purpose Interface Bus also know as IEEE-488 and HPIB.)
Thanks,
Tony


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Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
From: borchert@titania.mathematik.uni-ulm.de (Andreas Borchert)
Subject: Re: Bugs in Terra's M2-Compiler V4.1-2 for VMS
Organization: University of Ulm, SAI
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 12:01:13 GMT

In article <26AUG199217273382@srzts204>, roth@srzts204 (G.Roth, 2958,H267) writes:
> A recent message asked about bugs in the Terra-Datentechnik (former Logitech)
> Modula-2 compiler.
> Hereafter the list of bugs we currently know:
> 
[some bug descriptions deleted]
> MODULE bug5;
> 
> FROM SYSTEM IMPORT
>   SIZE;
> 
> FROM InOut IMPORT
>   WriteString, WriteInt, WriteLn;
> 
> VAR
[some declarations deleted]
>   d : RECORD x:ARRAY [0..4] OF CHAR; END;
[..deleted...]
> 
> BEGIN
[..deleted...]
>   WriteString( "  SIZE(d)   (* =5 *)" ); WriteInt( SIZE(d),   3 ); WriteLn;
>   WriteString( "  SIZE(d.x) (* =5 *)" ); WriteInt( SIZE(d.x), 3 ); WriteLn;
[..deleted...]
> END bug5.
> 
> 
> Comment:
> 	SIZE() of a record type whose true length is odd and larger than 1
> 	returns a value that is 1 too large:
> 
> $ modula/nolog bug5.mod
> $ link bug5
> $ run bug5
[...deleted...]
>   SIZE(d)   (* =5 *)  6
>   SIZE(d.x) (* =5 *)  5
[...deleted...]

That's not necessarily a bug. An implementation is free to allocate
one or more bytes for padding of compositional types.
It would be a bug if the compiler doesn't allocate 6 bytes for the
entire RECORD type.

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________________

Andreas Borchert, University of Ulm, SAI, D-W-7900 Ulm, Germany
Internet: borchert@mathematik.uni-ulm.de
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
From: cspt@giraffe.ru.ac.za (Prof. P. Terry)
Subject: FST is alive and well
Summary: FST new release coming up soon
Keywords: FST Shareware Compilers
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 07:30:54 GMT

Well, lovers of Modula-2 for PC's, FST seems to be alive and well:

Roger Carvalho, author of the excellent FST system, has just
written to me as follows, and asked that I disseminate the
information:

------------- start

I just got back from my sabbatical (6 weeks during which I
created m-2 v3.0).

I will release the new compiler Sep 8 (still doing documentation).

Besides telling you the location of runtime errors as
module/line, the new compiler supports objects -- virtual methods
and single inheritance. That is all!

I decided to release this compiler to find out if there is still
any interest in Modula-2 out there. If the response is
reasonable, I will do a debugger (everyone wants one!). If not...
goodbye FST!

On the business side: the compiler costs $50. Upgrades are $10.
Educational site licenses are $250 (this does not apply to
current licensees, of course).

--------------- end of Roger's letter

People who already know FST will probably be as pleased to hear
this as I am.

People who don't know FST?  Well, Fitted Systems Tools is a
shareware product that conformed very well to Wirth's edition 3,
with a few extensions like inline assembly (needed a SYSTEM
import of course), a good set of libraries, and, for registered
users, the source of the libraries as well as a comms package.
the compiler is two-pass; typical mediums size programs make and
link at about the same speed as TopSpeed (JPI) Modula.  There's
an integrated environment rather like TurboWhatsit level 3, and
command line versions of the compiler and linker for those who
prefer them.  The object code could either be proprietary (.M2O)
or .OBJ format.

From an educational point of view FST has been very good; we have
used it here for about 4 years, the only complaint being that
debugging facilities are a bit weak, so it is good to see that he
is addressing that point.

Like many shareware authors, Roger seemed to get discouraged, and
it looked for a while as though FST would die.  Perhaps some of
you can send him a note of encouragement, preferably even a note or two
from a bank as well!

Roger's address seems to be    carvalho_roger@Tandem.COM

I assume that in due course the new version will be available for
FTP from various sites, like ftp.psg.com.  I'll try to keep the
group posted (I don't know that Roger reads comp.lang.modula-2
himself).

Pat Terry
(cspt@giraffe.ru.ac.za  or  pdterry@psg.com)


Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
From: mcramer@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca (Mert Cramer)
Subject: Re: Is Modula-2 dead?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:59:35 GMT

From article <2910@unieinf.UUCP>, by voit@wi-inf.uni-essen.de (Stephan Voit):
> (Little) Flame:
> 
> Everybody who has written a program -- not only a few lines of source -- in C++ 
> (or more horrible: in C) knows 
> 
> 			Modula-2 is living
As someone said: "C is its own virus."
As I said: "C++ is like trying to teach a tiger to eat carrots."
From: gee@okcadm.okanagan.bc.ca
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: Logitech Modula-2 version 4.0 problems
Date: 25 Aug 92 13:38:47 GMT
Organization: Okanagan College

Help!

i have purchased the Logitech Modula-2, version 4.0, student pak from 
multiscope.

aside from the fact that it modifies my autoexec.bat file without telling
me and without making a backup (and the modifications require dos 3.3 or
higher and i have 3.2) i have a problem with M2ASSIST, the template
feature.

first problem - where in the manuals is M2ASSIST described? there is a brief
   reference in the installation manual, page 3-107, but that is all I
   can find. it does not describe, for example, the valid characters and
   their meaning. Nor for that matter does it describe how to invoke the
   macros in M2ASSIST.INI but i figured that out.

second problem - i have modified the M2ASSIST.INI file so that 
   Ctrl-T presents a different template from that supplied. the
   modifications work fine. In attempting to do the same thing for
   Ctrl-N (DEFINITION MODULE) and CTRL-O (IMPLEMENTATION MODULE), i manage
   to hang the computer when i modify the default provided. CTRL-N
   and CTRL-O work fine as supplied but not when changed. 

i contacted the technical support people at logitech and their answers
were

  first problem - the person i talked to couldn't find the references
                  either

  second problem - no problem, worked fine for him.

it may be due to some peculiarity of my computer, an olivetti M280, an
otherwise well behaved AT compatible.

any Logitech Modula-2 version 4.0 experts out there?

Rick Gee
Computer Science Department
Okanagan University College
Kelowna, BC
Canada
From: draper@ais.org (Patrick Draper)
Subject: Re: m2 for scientific computation
Organization: UMCC
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 22:02:40 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.170550.6706@sequent.com> tima@sequent.com (Timothy Alan Anderson) writes:
>
>Modula2 is dead. It's a shame! I was just telling someone after looking at
>a C++ example, "Luckily I learned Modula-2 first. I do all this stuff
>allready, I just have to learn a different syntax".
>
>And let's all thank the Ada-2 folks for nailing the coffin shut...
>
>tima@sequent.com

Right on, although Modula-2 is very much alive in many parts of the world,
in the United States, it is dead. I too am glad that I learned M-2 before I
learned C. I use many of the same principles I learned with M-2 in my C
programming.

One of the biggest complaints I stil have with M-2 is that the type checking
is *too* strict.

Why should I have to assign a pointer to an intermediate generic pointer,
when I all I want to do is convert the type of my pointer?

i.e.
wordpointer = integer pointer;
bytepointer = wordpointer;
character pointer= bytepointer;

vs. C's   character pointer = (char *) integer pointer;

Oh well. I loved M-2 very much, except for the typechecking details. I am
thankful that it taught me good style, but for me, M-2 will be a 'teaching'
language, just like it's grandfather language, Pascal.



------------------////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\------------------
| Patrick Draper           Disclaimer:  I can't control my fingers,        |
| draper@umcc.ais.org                   I can't control my toes! - Ramones |
| University of Michigan                                                   |
| Computer Club                We are a nation of laws, not people         |
------------------\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\////////////////////------------------
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
From: vinay@cs.toronto.edu ("Vinay K. Chaudhri")
Subject: M2 for SPARC stations
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 3 Sep 92 19:59:53 GMT


I am looking for a Modula 2 compiler for SUN SPARC stations.
I would appreciate if someone could point me to some ftp sites
from where I could get it.

Thanks,
vinay
From: g_dotzel@tron.gun.de (Guenter Dotzel)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: "The ModulaTor" request summary
Organization: TRON Public Mailbox, Neurath, Germany
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 17:27:00 +0200

Hi,

Recently I offered two free sample copies (Jul/Aug'92) of

  "The ModulaTor", 
  (ModulaWare"s Modula-2/Oberon-2 non-commercial, technical, monthly,
  independent newsletter)

to all who request it via email. Thanks all for your interest.
Till today I got 49 requests from 14 different countries. 
Most request came from USA (look, look...). 

All requestors also got a copy of the new Sep'92 issue, entitled
  "The ISO Modula-2 Standard Library for Oberon-2:
   Definition of Interface Modules & Examples"
   by Elmar Baumgart, ModulaWare GmbH (22 pages)

The ModulaTor newsletters were sent by surface mail. So please be patient.
Overseas delivery may take up-to 4 weeks.

Some selected issues of the newsletter are available in PostScript
format from CompuServe's CodePort forum (look for MDLT*.ARC). 
An ftp-site is not yet available.

Guenter Dotzel,
(Editor of The ModulaTor)

ModulaWare GmbH, Wilhelmstr. 17A, D-W 8520 Erlangen/F.R.Germany
Tel. +49 (9131) 208395, Fax +49 (9131) 28205.
E-mail/Internet: 100023.2527@compuserve.com
                 g_dotzel@ame.nbg.sub.org
From: mwalls@nmsu.edu (Commander Keen)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: Of Mice & Modula-2
Date: 29 Aug 92 21:01:50 GMT
Distribution: comp.lang.modula2
Organization: NMSU Computer Science


	First off, let me make a better explanation of what I'm wanting to
know from my previous post.

	In BASIC you can open a Random (or Indexed) file by using the
following:

	OPEN "r", #1, "filename.ext", record size

	where record size is the number of bytes set aside per record.

	Then, at any time while it is open, one can get or put information
into a specific point in the file by using:

	GET #1, rec
       or
  PUT #1, rec

	(where rec is the record to be accessed)

Is there a way to do this in Modula-2.  This is probably a stupid
question, but I really don't know.

Anyway...

	Does anyone have or know of a public domain library module for
reading mice activity? 
	If not, could someone give me some insight on writing one of my own?

	For the project I'm working on, this is probably a more important
question than the one about random files.

	Rather than post an answer to the net, I'd prefer you e-mail me
responses (unless you feel that others may wish to know also).

																		Craig
																		mwalls@NMSU.Edu
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
From: tima@sequent.com (Timothy Alan Anderson)
Subject: Re: m2 for scientific computation
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 17:05:50 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.105519.3967@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz> ecmtwhk@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Thomas Koenig) writes:
>I think Modula-2 still has a good chance to replace FORTRAN as the
>primary language for scientific computing.
>

Ya, and C has a good chance to replace COBOL as the primary language for
business computing. 

Get serious.

Modula2 is dead. It's a shame! I was just telling someone after looking at
a C++ example, "Luckily I learned Modula-2 first. I do all this stuff
allready, I just have to learn a different syntax".

And let's all thank the Ada-2 folks for nailing the coffin shut...

tima@sequent.com
From: dagenais@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Michel Dagenais)
Subject: Re: Is Modula-2 dead?
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal, Canada
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 14:51:31 GMT

In article <0095FADB.C59759A0.22107@esseX.stfx.ca> andrea@ESSEX.STFX.CA (John Andrea) writes:

>   The OO language from Bertrand Meyer called Eiffel uses C as a glorified
>   assembler.

The freely available Modula 3 compiler from DEC SRC does produce
intermediate C code. It works well but this makes the executables (and the
debugging information) a bit larger than they should. It also makes
debugging a bit more difficult. This version will remain useful for
producing C code but upcoming versions (from DEC SRC as well as from GNU
gm3) will be native compilers.

In the coming years, the pressure for everyone to use the same language (C)
for portability may diminish. Indeed, most UNIX sites have the GNU tools 
installed and thus any program compatible with one of the GNU front ends 
for gcc will be as portable as gcc itself (which even runs on 386 DOS!);
you insure that the GNU tools are installed and type "make install".
Whether it is in C, C++ or Modula 3 will not matter too much as long as it
builds without problem.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Prof. Michel Dagenais			    dagenais@vlsi.polymtl.ca
Dept of Electrical and Computer Eng.
Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal		    tel: (514) 340-4029

---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Robert.Bergermann@f2002.n241.z2.fidonet.org (Robert Bergermann)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: CODE! PLEASE!
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 09:58:01 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 2:241/2002 - M2-Tek, Bremen

 > Is there any similar FidoNet node in zone 2?

   m2tek, FidoNet-Node 2:241/2002, Bremen - FRG
   Magic: FILES NEWFILES
   Freq : 00:00-03:00, 05:30-18:00 und 19:00-00:00 local time

Robert
2:241/2002 +49-421-591113
baer@m2tek.fido.de
--

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Internet: Robert.Bergermann@f2002.n241.z2.fidonet.org
From: Otto.Wyss@p27.f701.n301.z2.fidonet.org (Otto Wyss)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: Re: CODE! PLEASE!
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 10:58:32 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 2:301/701.27 - MPC Mailing System, Zuerich

 RB> From: randy@psg.com (Randy Bush)
 RB>
 RB> You will find a bunch of stuff that may meet your needs on FidoNet node
 RB> 1:105/6 at +1 (503) 297-9145.

Is there any similar FidoNet node in zone 2?

MfG Otti


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From: andrea@ESSEX.STFX.CA (John Andrea)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: Re: Modula2 compilers for Windows3
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:08:55 GMT
Reply-To: Modula2 List <INFO-M2%UCF1VM.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU>
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

Re: Multiscope 4.0 Modula-2 and MS-Windows

>>overall i rate that system very highly
>>but i havn't been able to write any MS-Windows programs because the
>>Windows Software Development Kit must be purchased separately from MicroSoft
>>at $495
>>
>>John Andrea
>>andrea@essex.stfx.ca

>If I read the message correctly, you say the in order to write a windows
>application with Multiscope 4.0 Modula-2 you need the SDK from
>Microsoft.  If this is in fact what you said you are incorrect.  I have
>the Multiscope 4.0 Modula-2 package and you don't need the SDK.
>
>Bryan Weaver
>bdw5281@ultb.isc.rit.edu


I just spoke to Technical Support at Multiscope
Yes you do need the Windows SDK from Microsoft to do Windows programming.
The required tools do not come with the compiler package.

But you can get from Multiscope the Whitewater Resource Toolkit which
is a MS-Windows high level toolkit and doesn't require the MSWin SDK
to do Windows programming. That toolkit is available for $99 (guess i'll
get one)

Also, its true that Multiscope has been taken over by Symantic, but the
takeover will be a positive change by giving more resources to
Multiscope products.

John Andrea
andrea@essex.stfx.ca