HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: erude@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Erick Rudiak)
Subject: Re: Shoot Harry
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 12:56:06 GMT

In article <Brt4Lu.Gvp@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, jcp29389@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (BEACH VOLLEYBALL!!!) writes:
|> stanm@comm.mot.com (Stan Macasieb) writes:
|> 
|> >Anyway, I was most amused by Harry's inability to pronounce Hal Morris'
|> >name correctly last night. "Hal Marsh"? 
|> 
|> 
|> you noticed that too?  wasn't that hilarious?  i though he was saying
|> "Kal Marsh" actually, but either way it was cracking me up.
|> 
|> i hate harry caray!
|> 
	Harry hasn't gotten a name right in years.  The most embarrassing of all 
was when Rafael Palmeiro came up with the Cubs (in '86, I think - has it been
*that* long?) and for the entire season, and the next season, too, Harry *always*
said "Raffy Palermo."  It was just brutal.  If a homer like Harry can't get the 
names of the guys on his own team right, I think someone (in authority) should
tell the man to retire.  His best (better?  I don't know if he ever had best days)
are way behind him.


|> jay
|> 


P.S.  I don't particularly like Harry either.

-- Erick
_____________________________________________________________________
                                                | 
I tell myself, hey, only fools rush in          | Erick Rudiak
Only time will tell if we stand the test of time| erude@nwu.edu
And all I know, you've got to run to win        |____________________
And I'll be damned if I'm left                  | "I'm not worthy..."
    caught up on the line                       |      \o/      \o/
    -- Van Halen, "Why Can't This Be Love"      | O__   \\  O__  \\
________________________________________________|_/__|__||__/__|_||__
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rdetweil@hpbs1026.boi.hp.com (Richard Detweiler)
Subject: Re: Franchises (WAS Re: Observations on World Series Winners)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:59:53 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Boise Printer Division

In article <1992Jul24.173938.2731@cs.rose-hulman.edu> rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert) writes:
>Distribution: usa
>
>In article <BrwEq0.FIA@mail.boi.hp.com> rdetweil@hpbs1026.boi.hp.com (Richard  
>Detweiler) writes:
>> 				     Seattle Pilots => Milwaukee Brewers
>>                                      Seattle Mariners
>
>As far as I know, the Mariners have stayed put.
>
>john rickert

Of course - I didn't read where I was putting them before I listed them.
Sorry about that.


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: marwood@qucis.queensu.ca (Simon Marwood DSC REP)
Subject: Re: Both Canadian teams in first place
Organization: Computing & Information Science, Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 13:01:21 GMT

In article <UeRhnhy00WB48_C540@andrew.cmu.edu> Amit Likhyani <al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>We don't need the Canadian supremecy.  The Expos may well win the
>division, but what is the relevance of 2 Canadian teams in first place. 
>No one ever notes that American teams lead all of the divisions or that
>a Canadian team
>has never won a World Series or that the Expos will be playing in Florida
>by the end of the millenium.  I think an all Canadian world series would suck
>and I would not take time out of my semester to watch it.  It would be a 
>ratings disaster.  Even if Montreal played the New York Yankees, it would
>still be a ratings disaster.  Why do you people have to gloat when the 
>Canadian teams do well?

Woah. Hang on... "that the Expos will be playing in Florida by the end of
the milennium" ??!! When will people give up on this ridiculous,
outdated comment? Fine. The fans in Montreal may be fair weather fans, but
when the team does do well and *is* exciting, along they come. Last
week, the team was attracting crowds of 40K+... meanwhile, the "true"
major-league city of St. Louis (their competition for second place at the
time) was attracting "paltry" crowds of 28,000. 

Let's say that both Chicago teams were in first place, or both New York
teams. Would people complain about someone mentioning that gleefully??

Thanks for coming out

Simon

-- 
Simon Marwood					
DSC Chair
Computing and Information Science Department
Queen's University
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: lpeitso@epx.cis.umn.edu (Lance)
Subject: Re: Both Canadian teams in first place
Summary: Dave "Turkey Boy" Kirsch will faint 
Keywords: Canadian first
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 13:31:26 GMT

Lundy

	If both teams can actually finish first in their respective divisions
I will see Dave "Turkey Boy" Kirsch flying around the U of M going nuts.  I
would have to say that I think Dave would vote for Montreal if they went to 
the series.  He may be Blue Jays all the way right now, but I think he would
rather see Montreal win.  My reasons for this are: 1) Dave Kirsch is a little
on the screwy side.  2) I think Dave is just trying to build up the Jays 
confidence so they blow it in the end.  3) Lundy !!  4) If the Spos actually
win the whole damn thing Dave will get $1000 dollars from the big bad boys
in Vegas.  We'll see what happens with the Spos.  But anyways everyone just
go ahead and Lundy.


*******************************************************************************
*	Lance "The Wild Thing" Peitso  |  lpeitso@epx.cis.umn.edu             *
*                                      |                                      *
*	I am a simple man.  All I want is enough sleep for two normal men     *
*	enough whiskey for three, and enough women for four.		      *
*							- Walter Slovotsky    *
*									      *
*       All opinions expressed are mine and mine alone.  So you can't have    *
*	any.								      *
*******************************************************************************
From: lisa@zeppelin.llnl.gov (Lisa Corsetti)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Sexy Baseball Players
Date: 24 Jul 92 23:07:49 GMT
Reply-To: lisa@zeppelin.llnl.gov (Lisa Corsetti)
Organization: Climate Model Intercomparison Group, LLNL

In article <1992Jul17.005530.11690@seas.smu.edu> marley@seas.smu.edu (Elisabeth Anne Marley) writes:
>
>My vote is for Rob Dibble.
>


Okay, I'll vote one for Dennis Eckersley. :)




   "There's no beginning, no ending. There's just infinite
    passion of life."
From: sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (Sivaram Hariharan )
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Twins/Bo-Sox Games 9 & 10.....24th July 1992 Double Header
Date: 25 Jul 92 04:13:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.19343
Organization: North Dakota State University, Fargo

After treating their respective fans to some good baseball, the 
Twins and the Sox shared honors in the double header played 
today. The Twins won the first one 5-0, a Scott Erickson 1
hit shut out. However, they lost a tough second game 4-5.

Game-9 saw some brilliant pitching by Scott Erickson limiting
the Sox to just a Brunansky hit in the 2and inning. The Twins
got their first run on a Bush RBI to LF and their second run
by a Bush homer. That was enough for Erickson to defend today,
but the Bo-sox gave up some unneccessary runs in the top of 
the 8th as the Twins capitalized on some fundamental mistakes
and scored 3 more. Sure outs were converted into bases and
eventually to runs. The Twins led 5-0 at the end of 8th and
there it stayed till the end. Scott got the win and is 7-7.
The Rocket(10-7) took the loss....I pity him...no run support.

Game-10 which was the second game of the double-header, saw
shaky starting pitching by both Dopson and Krueger. The
Twins got 2 in the top of the 1st and the Sox replied with
2 in the bottom of the 1st. The Twins again went ahead
on Gagne RBI in the top of the 7th and went ahead 4-2
on throwing errors by Boggs and Brunansky. Again it looked
that the Red-Sox have found a way to beat themselves, but
they levelled the game in the bottom of the 7th, which
was a hard luck inning for the Twins. Boston got their
3rd run of a streched out infield hit on a bases loaded
situation and Guthrie twisted his ankle in the process(no
updates on his situation) and Carl Willis walked in a 
run and the ball game was tied 4-4. Brunansky delivered the
final blow in the bottom of the 9th as the Sox won 5-4. One 
could see the releived faces in the Sox dugout after they
lost some heart breakers to Minnesota before.

Krueger was a picture of frustration in the dugout as he
is still searching for his 10th win. He left with a 
no decision and is 9-2. 

Tomorrow, Banks(3-3) will square off against Darling for game-11,
which is the penultimate  Bo-Sox-Twins game for 1992. Of
the 10 games played so far with the Twins, the Sox have lost
7 and won 3.

The Twins lead by 3.5 games in the AL-west.

S.h
Forever a Twins' fan......
From: roberto@oliveb.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Roberto Ricca)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Jeff King must Die
Date: 23 Jul 92 04:51:11 GMT
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

In article <3576@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes:
>I can't stand it.  With the score tied in the 8th inning, runners on first
>and third, and two outs, the Astros just intentionally walked Barry Bonds
>(who had homered earlier in the game) to pitch to Jeff King.  King flied out
>to left to end the inning.  When was the last time you saw someone walked
>intentionally to load the bases with first base already occupied?  
>

Apart from "tied game, bottom of the ninth", I suppose.

Well, it looks like the Astros are used to do this. On June 6th,
at Candlestick, in the bottom of the seventh in a slugfest (score
tied at six), with two out, Clayton at third and Mc Gee at first,
they intentionally walked Clark to get to Snyder.

Bad choice: Snyder hit a bases clearing double and doubled his
rbi total for that day.

########################################################################
# Roberto Ricca                 Email:      roberto@oas.olivetti.com   #
# 816 So. Saratoga Ave #M304    Phone: Home (+1408) 983-2293           #
# San Jose, CA  95129  -  USA          Work (+1408) 366-3558           #
#----------------------------------------------------------------------#
#           1992:   GO GIANTS  (magic number:   81)                    #
#                   Anybody but the Dodgers                            #
########################################################################
From: lotto@math.berkeley.edu (Ben Lotto)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: 6 hits in inning without scoring
Date: 31 Jul 92 11:32:20
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Math. Department.
Distribution: world
	<3145@bcstec.ca.boeing.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: durban.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: belo@bcstec.ca.boeing.com's message of 30 Jul 92 22:50:13 GMT

>>>>> On 30 Jul 92 22:50:13 GMT, belo@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Matthew J. Belo) said:

>> 
>> Following is a puzzle that Hal Lebovitz, formerly of the Cleveland
>> Plain Dealer, periodically posed, but never answered in the newspaper:
>> 
>> How can a team get 3 triples, 1 double, 2 singles, and 2 stolen
>> bases in their half of an inning without scoring?  He claimed it
>> actually occurred in a minor league game.  I will send the
>> solution later.
>

Matthew> Here is a possible scenario to solve the puzzle:

Matthew> First batter triples and is thrown out at the plate trying to
Matthew> stretch it.
Matthew> Second batter triples and is subsequently picked off at
Matthew> third.
Matthew> Third batter doubles.
Matthew> Fourth batter hits infield single to the left side, no
Matthew> advance.
Matthew> A double steal is pulled off.
Matthew> Fifth batter hits another infield single to the third
Matthew> baseman, again no advance.

OK so far.  The bases are loaded now.

Matthew> Sixth batter hits a triple and fails to touch first base on
Matthew> his trip around the bases.  Defense appeals and he is called
Matthew> out.

But 3 runs score!  Appeal plays are not force outs.  (Is the batter
even credited with a triple in this case?!  I don't know.)

However, if the runner on 3rd misses home, a successful appeal will
cancel the runs.  The difference is that runs scored by preceding
runners count, while runs scored by following runners don't.

Matthew> 3 Triple, 1 Double, 2 Singles, 2 SBs and 0 Runs.

We can even do better---change the last triple into a HR, and still no
runs score.
--
-B. A. Lotto
Department of Mathematics/University of California/Berkeley CA 94720
510-642-8464
lotto@math.berkeley.edu
Organization: University Relations - Diane, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 09:32:59 -0400 
From: Todd Harris Fletcher <tf0y+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Buffalo

>I have found one chink in Garcia's armour.  He does not walk much. 276 BA
>.311 OBA.  Certainly not Barry Bonds.

If I remember correctly, Barry was a hacker when he came up from Hawaii.
 Does anyone have his season by season stats for his career?

>Jeff King has homered in consecutive games.  Damn.  Now they may have more
>patience with him.

Make me puke!

-Todd
From: zacca@en.ecn.purdue.edu (The Grand Pooh-Bah)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: GMaddux to Test Free Agency Waters
Date: 21 Jul 92 22:05:01 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

(Mike Stailey) writes:

>The Cubs were very serious about keeping him. They offerred to make him
>the third highest player in the league and the highest paid pitcher.
>Apparently Greg felt he could do better someplace else. 
>
>BTW, he was also a little hacked off that the Cubs did not make a more
>serious offer to him last winter. Harboring a grudge against management
>as it were.

Just to add my two cents,  I don't think it has anything at all to do with
the money.  Greg Maddux had been one of the best pitchers in the National 
league for the last 3 years, consistently.  I think that he feels that he
should have a shot at winning a penant, and doesn't think he has a chance of
obtaining that goal with the Cubs.  Believe me, I am a die-hard Cubs fan, but
one must be realistic, and that is what I think he is doing.

				 			Zac
                                                The Grand Pooh-Bah 

Pooh-Bah: n. A pompous, ostentaious official; especially, one who, holding
	     many offices, fulfills none of them.
From: grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: What makes a great leadoff?
Date: 22 Jul 92 22:35:03 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Dept. of Mathematics
In-reply-to: dtate+@pitt.edu's message of 17 Jul 92 14:38:01 GMT

In article <3256@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, David M Tate writes:

> In article <GRABINER.92Jul16120534@zariski.harvard.edu> I write:

>>Bill James has a stat for evaluating leadoff hitters, based on the
>>number of runs the hitter is expected to score (given an average offense
>>behind him) and the number of outs consumed; it takes this number into
>>account.

>>.35(1B+BB+HBP-SB-CS)+.55(2B+SB)+.80(3B)+1.00(HR)

>>Now divide by outs.  I believe 25 runs per 100 outs is about average,
>>and 30 is really good.  (A top full-time leadoff hitter, with 700 plate
>>appearances, an OBA of .400, ten times caught stealing, and three double
>>plays, would score 130 runs in 433 outs at that rate.)

> Since I had spreadsheets of last year's final results already, and simply
> had to add one column to them, I went and figured this stat for both leagues
> in 1991.  I've listed below the top 10 in each league, plus as many players
> as I could think of who did some time as leadoff men.

> (For outs, I used AB - H + CS; I don't have sac flies and such in my files.)

> 	AMERICAN LEAGUE (.216)		NATIONAL LEAGUE (.205)

Note that these are league averages; my .25 above refers to an average
regular who hits leadoff, who is probably a better leadoff hitter than
a league-average player.

> 	47. S Sax	.234		69. S Dunston	.201
> 	54. M Cuyler	.222
> 	    C Knoblauch .222
> 	58. M Devereaux .219
> 	70. H Reynolds	.211
> 	84. D Gladden	.195
> 	95. B McRae	.186

> What is it about American League managers that makes them want to use Brian
> McRae and Dan Gladden as leadoff hitters?  

Speed gets overrated; there is a long tradition of putting a fast player
in the leadoff spot, even if he doesn't walk and has a poor stolen-base
percentage.  (That's Harold Reynolds' problem; he would be a better
leadoff hitter if he were never allowed to steal.)

--
David Grabiner, grabiner@zariski.harvard.edu
"We are sorry, but the number you have dialed is imaginary."
"Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again."
Disclaimer: I speak for no one and no one speaks for me.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: nflynn@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Date: 28 Jul 92 03:19:16 GMT
Organization: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing

In article <1992Jul25.030944.22822@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca>, 
91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (roger maynard) writes:

( Stuff deleted )
> Forget about Salazar.  Who would you rather have: Bonds or Puckett?  Playing
> for an underdog Kirby has two rings.  Playing for a favourite Bonds has zip.

	The only year the Pirates were really a favorite was last year.
> 
> I can say that statistics tell me that Puckett and Bonds are both great 
> players but that I think that Puckett just might have the edge over Bonds 
> because he has the rings.  

  	Your argument runs aground on the shoals of reason.  Isn't this also
statistical evidence, i.e.:

		World Series Rings owned by
Bonds			0
Puckett			2


> Stats are ok.  They just don't tell us as much
> as we would like.  You have to have a little faith that there is more to 
> the universe than what we can measure with statistics.

            Really.

> Stats can give you approximations - "ball-park" figures if I may - of a
> player's worth.  Anybody looking at the stats of Salazar and Bonds will
> know immediately that there is no comparison.  But until you can prove to
> me that the "intangibles" are not a factor in a player's performance and
> can prove that statistical discrepencies are solely due to luck then I
> can't believe that any objective measure of a players worth can be made.
> 

	Of course the problem with the intangible is that they are intangible.
You can't measure them, you can't even prove they exist.  So if you are trying
to compare players, they are of no value.  Now, in the real world they might
be extremely valuable.  The advantage of statistics is that you can quantify.
So you can say that Barry Bonds might be 20 runs/game better than Puckett
according to the statistics - so at least you can see what the size of the 
intangibles must be for them to make the two players equivalent.  
	I think many of the reactions like yours are brought on by the 
"statheads" making definitive statements about player's worth.  Real statheads
understand that all their numbers are only an approximation of the truth.
The fact that baseball statistics seem to function in a pretty coherent 
pattern (i.e., there are predictable relationships between them ) seems to
imply that, in most cases, intangible have a negligible impact.  In a certain
case they might have a huge impact and statheads are often reluctant to 
concede this.

	On the other hand, the anti-statheads tend to make rather outrageous
claims for intangibles.  Worse than this, they often claim that they can 
recognize who has these intangible qualities and who doesn't which of course
is absurd.  Often this kind of opinion is just parroting of mediot babble.
Maybe the player with the intanglibles on the Twins is Greg Gagne.  Maybe
it is Tom Kelly.  Why should it be Puckett?  Because he smiles a lot and 
looks cute on TV?  Come on...

					Nick Flynn
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: par@teak18.cray.com (Peter Rigsbee)
Subject: Re: ARTIFICIAL TURF: EMBARASSMENT TO THE GAME
Originator: par@teak18
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:39:00 CDT


In article <1992Jul23.205313.25141@news2.cis.umn.edu>, kimmel@epx.cis.umn.edu (Eric Kimmel) writes:
> 
> Fenway Park turns plenty of infield singles which die in the grass.  Turns
> plenty of doubles into triples because of the weird fence angles.  Turns
> plenty of line drives in left field into doubles that would be homers in
> several other parks.
  
I'd take this last statement further:

	Turns some line drives in left field into *singles* that would 
	be homers in several other parks.

This occurs when the left fielder knows how to play the wall.  (Not "play
baseball", but play a peculiarity of Fenway Park.)

Yaz was particularly good at this, and the Red Sox clearly had a home
field advantage when Yaz was in left field and the opponent's left fielder
wasn't used to the park.  There'd be a hard, high line drive to left; Yaz 
would start towards the infield, catch the carom (often on the fly) and
wheel around to throw it to second base (sometimes catching the hitter, who
assumed that something that hits the wall is usually good for extra bases).  
A "normal" fielder's first instinct would be to start towards the fence 
(and then have the ball carom back over his head).

As others have said, all parks are different, and that's one of the things
that makes baseball neat.

	- Peter Rigsbee
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: Don@wang.com (Don Rivard)
Subject: Re: True Blue Brew Crew in '92!
Organization: Wang Labs Lowell Ma
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 14:00:53 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.174353.23784@uwm.edu> paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger) writes:
>Path: wang!das.wang.com!ulowell!news.bbn.com!olivea!uunet!caen!uwm.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!paul
>From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
>Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
>Subject: True Blue Brew Crew in '92!
>Message-ID: <1992Jul28.174353.23784@uwm.edu>
>Date: 28 Jul 92 17:43:53 GMT
>Sender: news@uwm.edu (USENET News System)
>Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
>Lines: 25
>Originator: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

>Since I've been hit (hard!) by the Pennant Fever bug, I feel the need to
>get some things out of my system before they dissipate completely. First,   
>since they've tormented us for the past few years, a quote for the playoff 
>hopes of the White Sox and their obnoxious fans.

>"Nah Nah Nah Nah, Nah Nah Nah Nah, hey, hey, goodbye!" ;)

>Second, at this very moment, Jaime Navarro is the best pitcher in major
>league baseball. To say he's in a "zone" would be an understatement.

>Third, if it weren't for injuries, Paul Molitor would be known as the second
>best leadoff hitter ever (some guy named Rickey comes to mind) and would
>be a shoo-in for the Hall of Fame.

>Fourth, Molitor, Bill Wegman, Doug henry, and Jim Gantner could make    
>anyone's all-underrated team and that's a shame.

>Fifth, the Brewers finished the last 69 games of last year at 40-19, the
>best in the majors. If they went 36-18 the rest of the way, they'd duplicate
>that feat and end up at 90-72, which would at least keep them in the pennant
>race. And that would make me very happy because it would give me another few
>weeks before I had to start thinking about the Bucks and Packers and their
>(mis)fortunes!

>--Salty
I agree with you on what you said about Paul Molitor. I have always been
a BIG Paul Molitor fan. He is a class act on and off the field IMHO.