From: sgast+@pitt.edu (Susan Garvin)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Diversionary tactics
Date: 11 Nov 92 00:13:40 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

I think that Petey Honey knows that he made a big mistake when he
incorrectly accused Adrienne of forgery.  I think that he hopes
to distract the other readers of t.a. by posting obvious flamebait
in other threads.  

In article <nyikos.721415377@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
#In <1992Nov4.144046.11130@netcom.com> bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig) writes:
[text deleted]
##mas@Cadence.COM (Masud Khan) writes:
###
###A born baby is dependant on it's mother,
#
##Not in the same way a fetus is dependent on its mother!  If a woman
##wants to give up her baby, she can just hand it to you, but there's no
##risk to her in keeping it.
#
#Unless she is in a place like Somalia, where breastfeeding is depriving
#the woman of needed resources.  Sarajevo may not be far behind.

Now, this is obviously bait for Suzanne "breastfeeding is free!" Forgach.
I thought that Petey Honey considered her one of his best buddies, so
I'm not sure why he choose to bait her first, unless he thinks
that an argument with another pro-forcer would be the best distraction
of all.

##  If a pregnant woman wants to give up her
##fetus, well, there's no way to do so other than killing the fetus,
##unless you can think of a way...?  And keeping it introduces
##significant risks to her body.
#
#So does breastfeeding to a malnourished woman.

More Suzanne bait.

###is not self-supporting,
#
##More so than a fetus.  It can breathe, and it can eat.
#
#The fetus can breathe amniotic fluid after the first trimester, and
#swallow it, too.

This is a more general piece of bait.  Almost anyone could point
out that the stupidity of this answer.

###can't
###really think for it's self (apart from instinctive, God given reactions)
###so what you are saying that a baby is not a person,
#
##Correct, at least in how I'm currently seeing the term defined.  But
##our society says it's bad to kill anything needlessly, and an infant
##can just as easily be given to an adoption agency if its mother
##doesn't want it.  How can a mother deal with a fetus she doesn't want?
##(A hint: "keep it anyway" is the wrong answer.)
#
#Maybe to you, but not to most women, who get an abortion because the
#baby will put a cramp in their lifestyle *after* it is born.

More general "somebody please flame me" bait.  The non sequitur aspect
is all his own, and the "logic" was stolen from the Reverend.

[non-bait deleted]

###how do you know which unwanted
###child is not going to be happy? ask any "unwanted" child if he/she wish
###they were dead most would probably be thankful for the oppurtunity of life,
#
##Huh?  Where does the happiness of unwanted children come into this?
#
#Stop playing dumb, Brian.  You're hardly a clueless newbie.

I'm not sure who this was meant for - it must just be more general
bait.

###I agree that there may be certain circumstances where abortion should
###be considered ie when the mothers life may be in danger or possibly rape
#
##What degree of danger is necessary?  How many doctors must concur on
##the risks?  What if, by the time the courts have decided that the risk
##justifies the abortion, the woman has already died?
#
#What's the courts got to do with it?  If two doctors, one of whom
#has never performed an abortion and does not stand to profit from one,
#agree the mother's life is in danger, there will be no problem from
#the courts.

More general bait, but this is of a higher quality - it combines
cluelessness about the discussion with cluelessness about the law.

##And as for rape: "possibly"?  Please explain.
#
#Good question.  I've been quizzing Frank ODwyer about the famous Irish
#Supreme Court case, and he cannot rule out the possibility that the
#"rape" involved was STATUTORY rape, the child being simply underage.

Now, we see some of the old Dr. Giggles.  He pretends Frank O'Dwyer
is an expert on the case, and he makes one of his famous 
ininsuations.  I'm glad that he hasn't given up all of his
old tactics.

#Statutory rape no longer exists in Florida, thanks to a judge's
#decision that to make illegal a consensual liaison on the grounds
#that one party is underage, is a violation of the right to privacy
#guaranteed by the Florida constitution.

More standard Nyikos - mention a non-applicable law and pretend
that it means something to the case at hand.  (Maybe this is
Darcy bait, though.)

###But at the end of the day the decision lies with the mother
###but it doesn't change the fact that it is morally wrong to kill something
###living without a valid reason (not for convenience sake).
#
##Are you opposed to hunting for sport, then? 
#
#In some cases, it is the only way to keep down a population whose natural 
#predators are gone.

I'm not sure if he was hoping for a response from an animal rights
activist or just someone who would point out that "sport" generally
means for pleasure alone.

## And how do you feel about
##the thousands starving in Bosnia?
#
#And how do you feel about them?  Note my preceding comments on Sarajevo!

Open-season bait, since someone who would oppose the right of 
Bosnian women to abort unwanted pregnancies looks odd criticizing
anyone else.

##  Why not devote your efforts to
##helping them before you try to crusade for fetuses?
#
#This is so unfair and intellectually dishonest, it deserves a post
#all to itself.  Look for a post, "Why can't we work together?" later
#this week.

This one is obviously meant for anyone who wasn't offended by Petey
Honey comparing himself to Anita Hill.  He probably figures that
a comparison to Rodney King will do the trick.

#Clue: there are only so many hours in a day, only so many dollars in
#our pockets.

More general bait of the typical t.a. newbie variety.

###It is a well know fact that women who have gone through abortion go through
###very serious traumas.
#
##A very well-known myth, you mean.  Surgeon General Koop, a pro-lifer,
##ran a study on post-abortion trauma, and was forced to admit that no,
##there appears to be no correlation between abortion and trauma.
#
#Brian, it is you who are repeating a very well-known myth.
#
#The words of Surgeon General Koop, from an interview in the 
#_Rutherford Institute Magazine_, Spring 1989:
#	  "Instead of saying, `the Surgeon General could not find sufficient
#	evidence to issue a scientifically statistically accurate report
#	that could not be assailed, the Associated Press said, `He could
#	find no evidence.'  I know there are detrimental effects.  I have
#	counseled women with this problem over the last fifteen years.
#	There is no doubt about it....When I got home, my wife was in a
#	frenzy. `You won't believe what they are saying on television,'
#	she said. `[Dan] Rather said it, Brokaw said it, Jennings said
#	it, that you had not been able to find any evidence that there
#	are psychological effects of abortion.'
#	  "So that's where it all began.  And I spent...until about one
#	one o'clock in the morning, doing as much damage control as I could."

Library bait.

#Excerpted in _The Abortion Injury Report_, the same issue in which 
#it is reported that the 11-year old daughter of Catherine Pierce, a 
#woman who died of a LEGAL abortion, received a $2 million settlement
#out of court from the abortion clinic responsible for her mother's death.

Typical Nyikos bait.

#Chris Lyman, in case you are reading this and are curious, ask Susan Garvin
#to send you a clipping of the article from this newsletter she loves to hate,
#in the May 1990 issue.

This is obviously Chris bait. (I don't have that issue, Chris.  The
harassers here haven't been trying to force that one into the
patients' hands.)

#This was one "_alleged_" victim of legal abortion.

Maybe this is Susan bait - since Dr. Giggles put quotes around
alleged, thus pretending that it's a proven fact.

Well, Petey Honey made more stupid statements than usual in this
article, but I still remember that he's a characterless twit
who is unable to apologize when he's wrong.  I'm sure others
do, too.

Susan
Newsgroups: talk.abortion