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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 00:34:05 -0500
Reply-To:     Felix Sung <fsung@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>
From:         Felix Sung <fsung@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject:      Re: TAN: Who owns the masters?
              'MYERS@AB.WVNET.EDU" at Dec 15, 92 3:46 pm

Roger,

> Drema has lost several jobs in the past due to clients taking home masters to
> proofread and then canceling the printing portion of the job when they
> find that the master can either be run off satisfactorily on their own
> photo copier or cheeper at another print shop.  Also, she finds that many
> clients want her to give them the masters after the job has been printed and
> she is worried that some of them will use these masters to print at other
+ shops
> or locally on photo copiers.  She wants to either not let them have the
> masters or do something to render them useless for copying but perhaps they
> have a right to them?

The scenario you relate is, in my experience, a common one. After one
too many "clients" pulled the stunt on me, I came up wioth a simple
solution to the problem: on the master page (i.e., the page with
layout definitions) I create a page-size box, with a 20% fill, over
which I place the word "PROOF" in 128 point, reverse type. The 20%
screen is just enough to be noticable on the printed page proofs, and
photocopies remarkable well. :-) Once the proofs have been corrected
and approved, it is a simple matter to return to the master layout
page and delete the box and the word "PROOF.".

I have no doubt that some clients still try to print final copies
from these proofs, but since I've adopted this procedure, I have yet
to have a client cancel the print order.

--- some stuff cut ---

> If a client has a DTP shop design and print business cards for them are they
> entitled to the master page with 12 business cards layed out on it?  If
> so they might be smart to ask for it and print
> and cut their own in the future.
>
> There are also clients who are very upset if Drema charges them for scanning a
> photograph when we have charged them some time in the past for scanning the
> same photograph.
>
> If a client wants their scanned photographs, plates, master pages, etc. can
> Drema charge them a fee for each master page wanted or simply refuse?
> Can Drema simply give them the master pages and/or scanned/screened
+ photographs
> with a diagnal line drawn through them?
>

> The problem is that often Drema gives the client an estimate based upon
> getting the entire design and printing job so when the client later changes
> his/her mind and only wants the design work but wants the master pages
> they feel that Drema has contracted to do the design portion for the low
> price she quoted them when in fact Drema was counting on making some
> additional profits from the printing of it.
>
> One client got Drema to give her a quote on typesetting a 120 page book,
> printing 500 copies, and having it hard bound.  Drema searched around and got
> quotes on printing the pages and binding the book where she would get a
> discount.  She gave the lady a quote in which she broke down the cost
> for each portion of the entire job.  Drema thought that the lady would not
> go for the entire printing and binding until she saw that she had a typeset
> book.  So she added a little to the binding and printing portion and agreed to
> typeset the book for $360.00 ($3.00 per page).  The lady let her typeset the
> entire book and then took the master copy Drema gave her to proofread to a
> large printshop to have it printed and bound.  She said that Drema's
> price was a bit higher then theirs.  So how should Drema protect herself?
>
> I feel that it should work like this.  If the estimate states that it is
> an estimate for designing and printing a job then the client should not be
> able to hold the DTP shop to the estimate for any portion of it unless
> the entire design work and printing is done.  For example if Drema says
> that she will design a 2 sided legal sized brochure and print it at $20.00
> for designing and $110.00 for printing 500 copies and the client decides to
> change the number of copies to 100 or decides to get it printed elsewhere
> then Drema should not be held to her $20.00 design price because she partially
> was basing it on getting to print 500 copies.  If they only want the job
> designed later and want a master Drema should be able to say "Ok, the bill
> for that is $40.00".  Would she need to say something about this on the
> estimate or could she simply have a charge of $10.00 per side of a page
> for master copies?  I feel that if a client wants an estimate just for the
> design work on a job that he/she would be entitled to a master copy because
> it was understood from the start that he/she was not planning to have the
> DTP shop print it.  How do you do estimates?  Especially difficult are those
> estimates which people telephone in for.  How do you handle those?  They press
> the DTP shop for an estimate on a job and then try to hold it to the estimate
> even though there are so many variables like the complexity of the typesetting
> work, layout format, paper quality, etc. so that they are often disappointed
> when the price charged is not what was estimated.  To make a good estimate
> the client needs to bring all matterials available and sit down and explain
> exactly what they want the final product to look like.
>
I don't know whether the business climate in Philippi will allow your
friend to do this, but when I take a job, I insist that the client pay
50% of the estimated cost up front and the balance when the finished
product is delivered. That way if the client decides to back out on
all or part of the job later, he/she loses his/her money. (By the way,
it is imperative that you have the client sign a work order specifying
what work is to be done, acknowledging the estimated cost of the
project, and the delivery date. This is for YOUR protection, should
the client refuse to pay, claiming you did more or less than was
agreed.) Obviously, if you're going to run over your estimate, you
need to inform the client and get written approval for additional
charges. On the other hand, if the overrun is small, it may be worth
you while to eat the additional cost to get the client's business in
the future.

> A client thought she was doing herself a great favor by typing the 50 page
> booklet in with a word processor that Drema didn't own.  She then exported
> the entire document as DOS text and gave it to Drema on a floppy.  The booklet
> contained many charts and several graphs and needed to be layed out 2 pages
> per side of a sheet of paper.  It needed headers and page numbers and
> spell checked among other things as well as redrawing of graphs and
> reallignment of columns on the many tables.  She was rather disgusted that
> Drema charged her $120.00 for the entire job when Drema had appearantly
> told her several months before that she could do it for around $30.00.  Drema
> had given her a quote of $30.00 when she said that it was going to be in
> WordPerfect ready to print and only needed a little touching up and run
+ through
> the spell checker.

If clients are providing me with their data on disk, I specify what
format I will accept. If they can't provide it in that format, I
charge a standard hourly fee for file conversion.

>
> When a client pays you to design and print a brochure, flyer, newsletter, etc.
> who own's the rights to the masters and to the computer files?

I'm not sure what the legal answer is, but I assume that the client
owns the rights to the masters and the files. I have been hired to
provide a service, and having been compensated for that service, the
rights pass to the employer. (In patent law, an employer owns the
rights to an employee's invention unless the employer repudiates its
ownership of those rights. By the way, I should mention that I'm an
American citizen studying in Toronto, so my comments about patent
ownership are valid for the US; I'm not sure what the story is in
Canada.)

-- some stuff cut here --

> Also, I have heard that if you are designing something for a
> client and they want to take the masters home to proof them you should
> draw a diagnal line down each page with an ink pen to prevent them from
> running off useful copies of the master pages.  If the client has paid
> for something to be typeset then does the client have the right to all the
+ owrk
> you did including all screened photographs, master pages, plates, .TIF
> files, Word Perfect files, PageMaker files, etc.?  If they demand the
> master pages could you just draw diagnal lines through them and let them have
> them?

I think it depends on what stage you are at in the project. If the
project is incomplete, then I think it's fair to do so. If the project
has been completed and you have been compensated, however, I think the
client has a right to expect to receive these items.

> Does a print shop have any right to make it more expensive for
> a client to get the same job reprinted somewhere else?

No comment.

> How could you make the computer files readable but useless and not easily
> fixed?

If you're interested in repeat business, why in the world would you
want to do this?

> Here is a similar question.  Is a print shop under any obligation to keep
> master pages, plates, computer files, etc. just in case the client wants
> to reprint the job later?  Could the shop simply tell all clients that
> all masters, plates, files, etc. will be distroyed after the current run
+ unless
> the client pays for storage?  How is all this handled by print shops and
> by DTP shops?

Perhaps not under any legal obligation to do keep the material but
again, if you want to encourage repeat business, it's usually a good
idea to keep it.

I have grave problems with charging clients to store material. On the
other hand, my sotrage space is limited. That is why I decided to hand
all the masters and files over to the client. That way, storage
becomes his/her problem. :-)

With regular clients, for whom I do work on a continuing basis, I
keep the computer files on individual Syquest cartridges; masters,
however, remain in their possession.


Felix.
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| Felix Sung                               Wycliffe College           |
| Internet: fsung@epas.utoronto.ca         Toronto School of Theology |
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