From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Sechrest's inability to distinguish between "Turks" and "Tartars".
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 21:07:20 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1992Dec15.042225.18169@zip.eecs.umich.edu> sechrest@dip.eecs.umich.edu (Stuart Sechrest) writes:

>I assumed that the fighting (est. pop. loss 42,511) in Adana, was likewise 
>attributable to Greek/Muslim strife.  McCarthy does not say.  Are you saying 
>that this was an area of Armenian/Muslim fighting?

Precisely.

1. Neside Kerem Demir, "Bir Sehid Anasina Tarihin Soyledikleri: 
   Turkiye'nin Ermeni Meselesi," Hulbe Basim ve Yayin T.A.S., 
   Ankara, 1982. (Ingilizce Birinci Baski: 1980, "The Armenian 
   Question in Turkey")

2. Veysel Eroglu, "Ermeni Mezalimi," Sebil Yayinevi, Istanbul, 1978.

3. A. Alper Gazigiray, "Osmanlilardan Gunumuze Kadar Vesikalarla Ermeni
   Teroru'nun Kaynaklari," Gozen Kitabevi, Istanbul, 1982.

4. Dr. Kirzioglu M. Fahrettin, "Kars Ili ve Cevresinde Ermeni Mezalimi,"
   Kardes Matbaasi, Ankara, 1970. 

>So how about the Muslim population of x-Russian Armenia? (The war preceded
>the establishment of the Soviet Union, eh?)

You make me laugh. Are you for real? 

By Rachel A. Bortnick 

"A more appropriate analogy with the Jewish Holocaust might be the
 systematic extermination of the entire Muslim population of the 
 independent republic of Armenia (which lasted from 1918 to 1921),
 which consisted of at least 30-40 percent of the population of that
 republic. The memoirs of an Armenian army officer who participated 
 in and eye-witnessed these atrocities was published in the U.S. in
 1926 with the title 'Men Are Like That.' Other references abound."

 1."Men Are Like That" by Leonard A. Hartill, Bobbs Co., Indianapolis, 
   1926

   Memoirs of an Armenian Army Officer translated to English and
   published by a member of American "Near East Relief Organization."
   Gives the whole account of the genocide of all Turkish and Moslem
   people in Armenia organized and executed by Armenian Government and
   Army. Also gives account of countless other massacres and atrocities
   against the Turkish people in Armenia.

 2."Adventures in the Near East, 1918-22" by A. Rawlinson,
   Dodd, Meade & Co., 1925

   Eyewitness account of the same genocide by a British Army Officer.

 3."World Alive, A Personal Story" by Robert Dunn,
   Crown Publishers, Inc., New York, 1952

   Another eyewitness account of the same genocide by an American 
   Officer.

 4."From Sardarapat to Serves and Lousanne" by Avetis Aharonian,
   The Armenian Review Magazine, Volume 15 (Fall 1962) through 17 
   (Spring 1964)

   Memoirs of the chief Armenian delegate to the Paris Peace Conference
   were published in the Armenian Review Magazine in 13 articles from
   Volume 15 (Fall 1962) to Volume 17 (Spring 1964). These memoirs 
   include an interview between Aharonian and British Foreign Minister 
   Lord Curzon in which above-mentioned genocide was discussed. The 
   official report mentioned by Lord Curzon is the report of British 
   High Commissioner to Caucasia, Sir Oliver Wardrop.

>To justify your figure of 2.5 million Muslim deaths, you are apparently 
>saying that 1.4 million Muslims were killed by Armenians in Russian
>Armenia.  This is what you are saying, right?  (Do the Russians and

I don't have the faintest idea what literature it is to which you refer.
Is this an explicit statement by some document? Or is it your usual
interpretation of statements in such literature? A fascinating piece
of analysis.

>Georgians get any blame?)  Do you have any figures that indicate this
>population loss? You quote Hovannisian as saying that the Muslim population 
>across Transcaucasia in 1886 was 2,220,000, but this region includes 
>Azerbijan.  Hovannisian notes a block of 370,000 Tartars in the districts
>between Erevan and Persia.  You simply add ``In 1920, '0' percent Turk.''
>Do you mean that these 370,000 Tartars had been killed or driven away, or 

There is no point arguing about easily verified facts. 

"We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as 
 ways of escape for the Tartars and then proceeded in the work 
 of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village. 
 Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts 
 into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable 
 and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets 
 completed the work. Some of the Tartars escaped of course. They 
 found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border 
 into Turkey. The rest were killed. And so it is that the whole 
 length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to 
 Akhalkalaki from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain 
 plateau of the North were dotted with mute mournful ruins of 
 Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for 
 howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the 
 scattered bones of the dead." 

                             Ohanus Appressian
                            "Men Are Like That"
                                   p. 202.

>the entire Muslim population of Transcaucasia?  Obviously you cannot
>mean the latter, since Azerbaijan was still predominantly Turk in 1920.

Again, your inability to distinguish between "Tartars" and "Turks" is 
incredible. 

Source: "U.S. Library of Congress:" 'Bristol Papers' - General Correspondence
Container #34.

 "While the Dashnaks were in power they did everything in the world to keep the
  pot boiling by attacking Kurds, Turks and Tartars; by committing outrages
  against the Moslems; by massacring the Moslems; and robbing and destroying
  their homes;....During the last two years the Armenians in Russian Caucasus
  have shown no ability to govern themselves and especially no ability to 
  govern or handle other races under their power."

As for the area...

".................................. And so it is that the whole 
 length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to 
 Akhalkalaki from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain 
 plateau of the North were dotted with mute mournful ruins of 
 Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for 
 howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the 
 scattered bones of the dead." 

Source: W. E. D. Allen and Paul Muratoff, "Caucasian Battlefields," 
Cambridge University Press, 1953, p. 481.

"As the Armenians found support among the Reds (who regarded the Tartars
 as a counter-revolutionary elements) the fighting soon became a massacre
 of the Tartar population." 

Source: General Bronsart wrote as follows in an article in the July 24, 
1921 issue of the newspaper "Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung:"

"Since all the Moslems capable of bearing arms were in the Turkish Army,
 it was easy to organize a terrible massacre by the Armenians against
 defenseless people, because the Armenians were not only attacking the
 sides and rear of the Eastern Army paralyzed at the front by the 
 Russians, but were attacking the Moslem folk in the region as well."

Source: F. Kazemzadeh, "The Struggle for Transcaucasia," (New York, 1951),
pp. 69-77.

  This three-day massacre is recorded in history as the 'March Events' and 
  20,000 Turks, old people, women and children lost their lives.

Source: K. Gurun, "The Armenian File," (London, Nicosia, Istanbul, 1985).

"Many Muslim villages have been destroyed by the soldiers of Armenian troops
 armed with cannons and machine guns before the eyes of our troops and the
 people.....According to documented information, 28 Muslim villages have
 been destroyed...young Muslim women have been taken to Kars and Gumru,
 hundreds of women and children who were able to flee their villages were
 beaten and killed in the mountains..."

Source: Quoted by General Hamelin in a letter to the High Commissioner,
February 2, 1919, in the official history, "Les Armees Francaises au Levant,"
vol. 1, p. 122.

 "They [Armenians] burned and destroyed many Turkish villages as punitive
  measures in their advance and practically all Turkish villages in their
  retreat from Marash."

Source: John Dewey, "The Turkish Tragedy", The New Republic, Volume 40, 
November 12, 1928, pp. 268-269.

 "that they [Armenians] boasted of having raised an army of one hundred 
  and fifty thousand men to fight a civil war, and that they burned at 
  least a hundred Turkish villages and exterminated their population."

Need I go on?

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

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