From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Aikido and Randori
Date: 22 Jul 92 05:01:58 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <12383@inews.intel.com> jquarant@mipos3.UUCP (James R. Quaranta Jr.) writes:
>n article <1992Jul17.211848.26427@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jjsmith@nyx.UUCP (Jonathan J. Smith) writes:
>In article <HIRSCH.92Jul17115804@beirut.berkeley.edu> hirsch@beirut.berkeley.edu (Michael D. Hirsch) writes:
>In article <geNi8Qu00iU45Vk2t=@andrew.cmu.edu> Stephen Chan <sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>  hirsch@neuron.berkeley.edu (Michael Hirsch ) writes:
> I would be very interested in the reactions of aikidoka who are
> primarily interested in self defense.
>
>
>Given that.. I JUST HAD to respond the the comment about not liking MA practice
>that feels like tag or (more on my point) a dance.
>
>To me the difference between dancing and fighting/sparing/Actuall using MA, is
>There is none.
>I know this sounds a bit strange.. but bear with me..

Actually, it isn't strange at all. That same observation was made by the
anonymous author of the Sumerian _Gilgamesh_ epic (which is, I think, the
oldest surviving work of literature). In it, the two protagonists, Gilgamesh
and Enkidu engage in a knock-down drag-out brawl in the streets of Sumer
(before becoming fast friends - _Gilgamesh_ is the original "buddy picture").
The author says:

	They danced the dance of life
	that hovers close to death.

A lot martial traditions are closely linked to dance. Silat and capoiera come
to mind immediately, but there is also a strong connection between Okinawan
martial arts and folk dances. I'm sure the same is true in the Phillipines
as well (Khan, could you comment on that?). 

>In dance you treat many many things as active or passive participants in the 'dance'
>things that aren't usually noticed consciously y most people:
>other dancers, and thier bodies (kinda obvious)
>objects that are in that space with which you are performing..
>the space in which you are performing..

Or, as those of us who practice Japanese arts would say, "ma-ai".

[...lots of other stuff deleted...]
>.. NOw Im not sure if this is because
>of my somewhat unique background of being heavily into dance while 
>doing MA or not
>(I haven't run into many others.. SPEAK up if your out there!! please!..)
>or if its more somethign of just cause its me.
>But even in tourneys, I have always felt myself to be dancing a dance..

Hmmm. Sounds like "mushin" to me...

>SIgh.. IS this just totaly weird? and Im comming from outerspace?
>Or do some other people share some of this same viewpot/perspective on it??

Nope. I don't think it's weird at all. I think one of the primary
reasons for the emphasis on Zen in Japanese martial arts is to help
attain precisely the state you have described - where your actions
flow naturally from the circumstances, regardless of the danger of
the situation. I *think* what others were objecting to was the lack of
"intention" (for want of a better word) on the part of the participants.
Training ought to feel a little dangerous...if it doesn't, you're likely
to go to pieces when the real thing happens. If that "edge" is there in
your regular practice, then you *can* learn to disregard the danger.
The whole point, I suppose, is to learn to dance when your opponent isn't
planning on dancing ;-) (I prefer the Tomari two-step combined with
the Shuri shuffle, myself ;-) ).

Steve