HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rickc@pogo.wv.tek.com (Rick Clements)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Religious awards
Date: 7 Apr 92 05:53:47 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.


In article <1992Mar31.101231.15408@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> mayne@cs.fsu.edu writes:
}Why should I, as a Buddhist, have to describe "it" as "God"? The concept
}is alien to Buddhism. It would be much better if Buddhist boys were
}encouraged to understand their own religion, which has no god and
}specificially denies the existence of any supreme being/creator of
}the universe, rather than forced to adapt alien concepts. I am curious
}about the requirements for the BSA's Buddhist religious award, and what
}the related BSA materials say. I don't see how they can fail to
}misrepresent Buddhism if they think belief in God is necessary or even
}compatible with Buddhism. But on this point I suspect they are acting
}out of ignorance rather than malice, unlike their position regarding
}non-religious atheists and gays.

The requirements, material and awards aren't produced by BSA.  The
Protestant (God and Me for 3rd & 4th graders) award isavailable from
a Christian Supply Company.  The equalivalent Budest award is Metta.  
(I don't know any more about it.)

There are sections that need to be signed by a Religious Advisor.  It is
a minister in our case.  

}By the way, are there scouts in Thailand or other countries where the
}dominant religion is not based on any concept of god? What do the scout
}oath and scout law say there? Are they able to teach scouting values?

The rules state a requirement for religon not a belief in a god.  Christians,
Moslems and Jews will tend to express religon as a belief in God.  I have not
seen the oath or law from Thailand.  Both England and Canada make reference
to God (and also the Queen).

I think, the requirement for religon is because that is where most of our
values come from.  
-- 
Rick Clements (RickC@pogo.WV.TEK.COM)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: bollman@zap.wrc.xerox.com (Jim Bollman)
Subject: Need Help on trip to London
Reply-To: bollman.wbst128@Xerox.com
Organization: Xerox Webster Research Center
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 11:43:42 GMT

Troop 125, Williamson New York is planning a trip to London England in
1993.  We need a cheap place to stay close to transportation for getting
around London from February 12th to 20th.  This will be a trip for boys
14 and older.  If anyone has any ideas or contacts let me know.

Our troop made this trip 3 years ago but the same arrangements are not
open this year.

If any troop is passing through our area we would be glad to help you
find a place to stay.  Williamson is about 3 hours East of Niagara
Falls, on Lake Ontario. 

Jim Bollman
Committee
From: kdc5072@cs.rit.edu (Kevin D Colagio)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Scouting and the Martial Arts
Date: 6 Apr 92 03:07:27 GMT
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology, Rochester, NY

Personal opinion here:  I think that the main reason the BSA does not allow
or have a Martial Arts merit badge boils down to 2 basic reasons (both of
which I agree with...)

1) The time that it takes for a person to learn the control neccessary to
practice the martial arts is longer than would be feasable to a troop.

2) Finding a counselor for the martial arts may be difficult.  These days
there are a bunch of people out there who claim to be trained and who
aren't.  I would not want to have someone with no real credentials
instructing the scouts I was in charge of, and there is no real way to
verify someone's credentials in these sports as of now.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-  Kevin Colagio...student at large -  I am looking   - In Gods we trust,      =
=               aka                 =  for something  - All others pay cash.   -
-         KDC5072@cs.rit.edu        -   to put here.  -      -Vladimir Taltos  =
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: rusa@diku.dk (Bjarne Steensgaard)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: A Round-Up of Some Thoughts
Date: 10 Apr 92 11:56:19 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen

cdb@waikato.ac.nz (Craig D. Beere) writes:

>I dunno about American requirements, but in New Zealand the Scout Promise
>contains the phrase "My God".  Not "My Gods" but "My God".  Singluar.

In Denmark the phrase goes "Find my own belief and respect other's".
This doesn't exclude atheists, polytheistics, etc.  There is no
religious discrimination in the Danish Guide and Scout Association.

>I'm not sure, but I think this rules out both atheists and polytheistics like
>the Celtic people, Danish (?) people (believe in Thor, Armageddon etc), etc.
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is this a joke ???  

Just for your information: the Danish Peoples church is Christian; it
is kind of protestant.  Before the year 1536 the "official" church was
the Catholic Church.  The old Nordic Gods were abandonded around the
year 1000.  Give or take a hundred years in different parts of
Scandinavia.  In other words: Denmark was Christian long before the
first known white man set foot on New Zealand.

Bjarne Steensgaard

Pack Leader, Honey Lake Valley Pack, Peter Lassen Group, Denmark
Asst. Troop Leader, Dolphins, Peter Lassen Group, Denmark
From: shuford@cs.utk.edu (Richard Shuford)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: another greeting
Summary: tragedy
Keywords: morality, Russell
Date: 6 Apr 92 02:37:55 GMT
Expires: 6 May 1992 22:23:24 GMT
Followup-To: rec.scouting
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Tennessee, Knoxville--Dept. of Computer Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: alphard.cs.utk.edu

In <1992Mar27.094559.677@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> mayne@cs.fsu.edu writes:
> In <1992Mar25.094000.21@physc1.byu.edu> peterson@physc1.byu.edu writes:
>
> >Without such a belief (whether it be God, Allah, or whatever) then your
> >definition of morality is of necessity based on the whims and opinions of
> >humans who are known to do whatever they please if left to their own
> >devices
>
>This is nothing but prejudice speaking. Try reading Bertrand Russell on
>the subject. He doesn't defend arbitrary rules which have no social
>utility, but very definitely believed in and practiced a moral code
>which included intellectual honesty, praised kindness, and abhorred
>cruelty. He pointed out that the danger that when people are taught
>that morality depends upon what turn out to be illogical or invalid
>grounds they may rashly throw out the baby with the bath water.

Bertrand Russell was a very gifted man.  I'm sure that he put a lot of
work into developing his system of thought, heeding only "social
utility."  But his approach led in the end to retaining only a single
moral value: the simple biological continuing of the human gene pool.

I think even he had trouble accepting this rather bleak outcome of all
human activity.

To be sure, Scouting as an organization has its faults.  This is
inevitable: the organization is made up of people, and people of all
types may err.  But I applaud Scouting for upholding its original
sources of moral values, even in the face of contemporary "politically
correct" criticism.
-- 
 ....Richard S. Shuford  | "There is a way that seems right to a man,
 ....shuford@cs.utk.edu  |  but in the end it leads to death."
 ....BIX: richard        |  Proverbs 16:25 NIV
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: criswell7919@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: For Summer Camp Councilors (or anyone else)
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:23:50 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa



        As the summer approaches, a young boy scouts eyes turn to the wonderful
experiance of scout camp...  But unfortunately in many areas, the quality of
instruction and activity has suffered due to the neverending budget problems
that many councils experiance.  In my case (as a nature councilor at Camp
Mitigwa, Mid-Iowa-Council) I have chosen not to beat a dead horse-the council-
and go about finding materials for camp on my own.  
        Through various e-mail contacts and other sources I have managed to
come up with a small list of private and government groups willing to supply
such resouces as weather maps, forestry pamphlets, and other such things. 
Unfortunately, though, the reponse has not been that great.  
        ANYONE with information on this topic, namely: sources for resouce
material at reduced or no cost, please e-mail me.  And if anyone would like to
share in this knowlege, please feel free to write as well.
        
Yours in service,

Chad Criswell 
University of Northern Iowa
        
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Proposal? (girls, atheists, sexuality)
Date: 8 Apr 92 03:36:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: transfer.1982
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Apr7.001923.15700@ulowell.ulowell.edu>, rcashman@cs.ulowell.edu 
  (The Jester) writes:
|> >We cannot be your pretty little "nuclear family," with a home in the 
|> >suburbs and 2.3 children playing in the yard with the dog.
|> >Says who?
|> 
|> Says the ninety-plus percent of American citizens who follow a heterosexual
|> lifestyle instead of a homosexual one. 

> In article <1992Apr07.220916.33137@watson.ibm.com> strom@watson.ibm.com (Rob Strom) writes:
> >I'm one of the ninety-plus percent of American citizens who follow a
> >"heterosexual lifestyle", but I disagree that Mr. Cashman speaks for me.
> >In a pluralistic democracy, I will agree to tolerate others,
> >and I expect others to tolerate me.

In article <1992Apr7.233424.14974@ulowell.ulowell.edu>, rcashman@cs.ulowell.edu 
  (The Jester) writes:
> As usual, Mr. Strom (who is not the only person guilty of this) defends
> his point of view by citing completely irrelevant examples.
> Of course, Mr. Strom, I would never presume to TRY to speak for you.

As another of the "ninety-plus percent" for whom you don't speak, I would
say his point of view is more relevant currently than yours.  In fact, I
wonder how much of that "ninety-plus percent" you really DO represent.

> The topic of debate (for those of you who have lost focus) is whether
> or not homosexuality conforms to the traditional family and religious
> ideals that the BSA encourages.  Nobody has presented a rational arg-
> ument why it does, so my position on the matter remains unchanged.

No.  The topic of debate is why BSA feels that only "traditional" religious
religious and sexual orientations are compatible with what is basically an 
outdoors-oriented program that instils self-reliance and good citizenship.  
"Because they do" is not a good response.  "Because YOU do" is even less 
of a clincher.

> The BSA is your "basketball fan club..."
> It is a fan club for a non-atheistic, monogamous, heterosexual
> lifestyle.  And it tries to teach this lifestyle as being a
> traditional American ideal.  If you are not a "fan" of this lifestyle,
> you are not invited to join the "fan club."

You can be thankful that you don't really speak for the organization.
This quote in a couple dozen newspapers nationwide would wake the 
American public up right fast.

I don't believe that's what the BSA should be.  In fact, I don't even
believe that's what it really IS.  I'm aghast that you do.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: sayle@ucs.ubc.ca (Ralph Sayle)
Subject: Re: Sea Scouts
Organization: UBC
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 19:29:57 GMT

About 30 (brief) years back, I was a member of a Sea Scout Troop in Vancouver,
Canada. Although our group no longer exists there still are some Sea Scout
Troops active here. 

After our troop converted from "Land" Scouts to Sea Scouts we still kept up our
land activities.  Our watches (in Boy Scouts parlance, patrols) always did well
in the annual district camporee and we had an all-weather cabin on a local ski
mountain about an hour's drive away from our meeting hall. This was a
wilderness cabin that was a 30 minute walk from the road and always snowbound
in the winter. (It's age, poor foundations and government policy condemned it
about 5 years ago. I still have great memories from a dozen years of cabin'ing
on Syemour.)

We originally had a former lifeboat, jury rigged for sailing, for our troop
boat until we managed to purchase a 26 foot naval whaler from the government.
We spent many summer days sailing around English Bay and then have our little
Seagull outboard putt-putt us back to our dock in False Creek after the wind
always disappeared in the evening. 
 
We used to participate against the other Sea Scout Troops in a yearly regatta.
This was a harder competition than the camporees cause the other Sea Scouts
Troops were pretty damn good. Aside from the whaler races (ohh, my calloused
hands), we had semaphore and marching. There are still Sea Scout regattas in
Vancouver but I'm sure they aren't as tough as they were back then...


In article <1992Apr9.150019.7334@waikato.ac.nz> poli2031@waikato.ac.nz writes:
>In article <1992Apr01.153358.2880@donau.et.tudelft.nl>,
rozema@dutecaj.et.tudelft.nl (Jan Rozema) writes:
>> Hello,
>> 
>> Until this year I was leader of a group of sea scouts (I suppose you call
them
>> so, in Dutch they are called 'zeeverkenners'). Do these groups exists in 
>> countries like Canada, America, Australia etc? If they do, I'm very
interested 
>> in their program (global description of what they do in a year), what type
of 
>> sailing boats they use generally etc.
>> 
>> In the Netherlands there is every four year an international camp for sea
>> scouts. This year this camp will be in Roermond in the end of july. Last
time
>> a total of 5000 sea scouts joined this camp. They came from the UK, Belgium,
>> France, Germany, Israel, ..., and of course the Netherlands. If you are
inte-
>> rested in this and you want some info please email me. 
>> 
>> Thanks for any info,
>>                      Jan Rozema
>>                      rozema@duteca.et.tudelft.nl
>> 
>>          
>I know that the Sea Scouts exit in Malaysia but there are very few troops as
>far as I know.  When I was in the scouts one of the troops in school was a sea
>scout group and I do not know if they exist anymore.
>
>Any ex-scouts from Malaysia out there, maybe you might know more about the sea
>scouts in Malaysia.
>


Xref: sparky rec.scouting:960 alt.bbs:3480
From: ss@panix.com (Steve Steinberg)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.bbs
Subject: Need info on Scouting related BBSs
Date: 17 Apr 92 17:24:10 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

Hi
 
I'm trying to compile a list of BBS's that carry Scouting related
message bases or Scouting "Echos" from Fido, etc.  I suspect that most
will be for Scouting in general (BSA and GSUSA etc.), if not please
note.
 
This list will appear on Stone Mountain, which is my BBS (see below).
Any information would be appreciated.

Yours in Scouting,

Steve Steinberg
Assistant Cubmaster, Pack 139
Howard Beach, NY
Tomahawk District, Queens Council
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Call the Stone Mountain BBS, The world's first BBS dedicated to
Scouting.  (718) 641-1351, HST DS, 300->14,400 bps V.32, V.42
-- 
=====================================================================
=== Steve Steinberg   ==  ss@panix.com  == {cmcl2,apple}!panix!ss ===

              (The space below intentionally left blank)
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Proposal? (girls, atheists, sexuality)
Date: 8 Apr 92 00:05:43 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Apr7.184743.7914@ulowell.ulowell.edu>, rcashman@cs.ulowell.edu (The Jester) writes:
> I don't care what your personal preference is: if you openly admit to being
> gay or atheist, you have admitted your incompatibility with the ideals that
> the Boy Scouts of America try to teach.  Thus, you have disqualified yourself

If you hide it, of course, you are still not qualified for membership because 
the Scout Oath requires you to be honest.

But look on the bright side -- at least it doesn't discriminate against you.
Well, it never rains, but it pours, I guess.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.atheism
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: B.S.A. Belief in God Requirement
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 17:25:36 GMT

hayes@ddemo3.aero.org (Brian Hayes 74-35 x65129) writes:

[...]
>1.  Does BSA policy require you to swear to God (or a god)?  Or, is this 
>an infered interpretation?
[...]

==================================
Chicago Tribune (Sept 25, 1990) says:

"'On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and
  my country,' goes the Boy Scout oath. The Boy Scout law
  also invokes the deity. A Scout, it says, is 'reverent'
  toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties and he
  respects the beliefs of others.'

  'If a boy does not subscribe to these precepts, he cannot
   be a Scout," a spokeswoman at the Boy Scouts' national
   headquarters in Dallas explained."


- Carl
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: wayne@eng.umd.edu (Wayne C. McCullough)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Scouting and the Martial Arts
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:36:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: eng.1992Apr06.163620.22246
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park

I am posting this for someone who does not have a posting capability.

Please send all mail to the author, listed below.
<Begin Forrwarded Message>
---------------
From KNVQ%MARISTB.BITNET@VM.MARIST.EDU Sat Apr  4 20:09:02 1992
To: <wayne@eng.umd.edu>
Subject: Scouting and the Martial Arts

As I don't have a Usenet feed,but am able to get a look at the articles
in it,I logged on today to see a posting on the subject. There most
surely is an Explorer post that does exactly that,and I am a member of
said group. The game in question is run by NERO,short for New England
Roleplaying Organization. It is sponsored by the Boy Scouts. It's a
fantasy role-playing game,that does use padded PVC,and does ban shots to
the head(as well as the groin,hands,and feet). If anyone is interested
please have them send E-mail to me,as I can't post to Usenet. Also,the
group in question is now two-one in Massachusetts,the other in New
Jersey. It's fun,very safe(no serious injuries whatsoever from the start
in 1987),and I'd love to see it go farther than the New England/NJ area.
We are not full-contact,however. In fact the rules are very strict with
regards to body-blocking and the like.

-Paul

Paul Tomaszewski KNVQ@MARISTB.BITNET Marist College,Poughkeepsie NY

PS IF you could pass the info contained here along to rec.scouting,I'd
be much obliged. Our Boy Scouts/Elks liaison,Steve Brandes,can be gotten
hold of via phone at (908)769-7728.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: It'd Be A Shame
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 20:13:28 GMT

jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger) writes:

[...]
>It's even less exclusive than that.  One can have an utter lack of
>religion but strong faith in God.  Scouting promotes reverence for God,
>not religion.  Scouting requires no church membership, no affiliation
>with organized religion of any sort.

This fits within the legal definition of religion. According to the
ACLU Handbook: _The Rights of Emplyees_, 1984, chapter on religious
discrimination:

"The phrase 'religious belief' in Title VII has been given a broad
definition. It is not confined to theistic concepts or to traditional
beliefs, but includes ethical and moral beliefs that are sinerecly
held and with the strength of traditional religious beliefs.
  A person can be deemed to have a religious believe even if no
religious group espouses that belief, or even the the religious group
to which the person profess to belong does not accept such a belief."

- Carl

--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
From: cdb@waikato.ac.nz (Craig D. Beere)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Scouting and the Martial Arts
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:41:49 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

> Short self-defense training courses may be of use to anyone, but they
> certainly are not worth a merit badge.  If there was to be a martial
> arts merit badge, it ought to require the achievement of at least
> a brown belt (3rd kyu in Japanese arts), with a time commitment of 
> two years, or a black belt with a time commitment of 3 years.

Que?  3 Years for a merit badge?  Do you guys do things different to what we
do in New Zealand?  3 Months for a merit badge is the norm here, some even
shorter.
 
> Military training for the Scouts is a VERY bad idea to my mind.

Scouts is a paramilitary organisation.  It was founded by a soldier, with the
aim that the scouts would be useful to the army (as messengers etc).

Why do you feel military training is a very bad idea?  Do you feel the
ceremonies and uniform are also bad?

Besides, what's the Master at Arms badge?  Shooting & Archery are pretty
military to my mind.

[Re Boxing]
> And training is not necessary (just give 'em some gloves and let them go 
> to it).

Oh get real!  If you think giving boys & girls gloves & letting them go for it
is responsible, but encouraging them to learn a martial art is not, then you
have a serious problem!

{*******************************************************************************
** Craig D. Beere  (a.k.a. ++Byron)
** University of Waikato, New Zealand
** CDB@waikato.ac.nz
*}
{$I standard_disclaimer}
{$I witty_quote}
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: wayne@eng.umd.edu (Wayne C. McCullough)
Subject: Norse Theisms. (was Re: A Round-Up of Some Thoughts)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 21:02:57 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: rec

In article <1992Apr10.115619.8587@odin.diku.dk> rusa@diku.dk (Bjarne Steensgaard) writes:
>cdb@waikato.ac.nz (Craig D. Beere) writes:
>>I'm not sure, but I think this rules out both atheists and polytheistics like
>>the Celtic people, Danish (?) people (believe in Thor, Armageddon etc), etc.
>                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Is this a joke ???  

no, this (I think) is a misunderstanding.
>
>Just for your information: the Danish Peoples church is Christian; it
>is kind of protestant.  Before the year 1536 the "official" church was
>the Catholic Church.  The old Nordic Gods were abandonded around the
>year 1000.  Give or take a hundred years in different parts of
>Scandinavia.  In other words: Denmark was Christian long before the
>first known white man set foot on New Zealand.
Thor, and all of the of the other Nordic gods were essntially abandond
by the vikings before the downfall of the vikings (stamford bridge,
1066, where the current king of england, Harold (soon to be replaced by
William the Bastard, from Normandy) traded the lives of the vikings for
a promise to never attack england again.)  Before then, they were slowly
converted to Christianity.  They have found molds that have both a
Christian cross, and a Thor's hammer (essentially an upside-down T).

There may be a few people who still worship nordic gods, but I doubt
that there is any reasonable population (>%1) in any country (please
correct me if I am wrong)  However, a fair number of my friends do
were Thor's hammers, but that has nothing to do with religious beliefs.

I just had to spew out a history lesson.  Any mistakes (Spelling, 
syntax, grammer, history, etc.) have been made in part due to a
recently compleated physics lab.

Wayne