HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jeffrey.burrows@almac.co.uk
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: veget. beyond food
Date: 12 Nov 92 22:56:19 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: ALMAC BBS Ltd

I'm ovo-lacto-veg, and am quite used to checking food packets, avoiding
Worcestershire sauce and the like. I was recently prompted to think a
little more by comments on organic farming and the use of animal
products. I think people who see things in black and white (or perhaps
black and green) may have problems in areas such as these.

Anyhow, the other issue which recently came to mind was the use of
animal products in medicine. I know people have different attitudes
towards leather shoes, and I'd like to hear anyone's opinions on the
latter - I've formed no definite ones of my own yet.

Jey

bk848@cleveland.freenet.edu
100010.2007@compuserve.com
jeffrey.burrows@almac.co.uk
--
ALMAC BBS Ltd. 0324-665371
Dos based USENET access,  call for details!
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: sj@netcom.com (Suzanne Jacobs)
Subject: Natural household products (was Re: A Quick Breakfast)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 07:35:41 GMT

I e-mailed this to the original poster, but thought others might
be interested in _Nontoxic, Natural and Earthwise_ by Debra Lynn
Dadd.  She gives natural, low-cost alternatives to all kinds
of things.  I eliminated a lot of chemicals in my home because
of this book.
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Conclusions about Ted Altar
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:25:25 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1992Nov12.063839.20343@abo.fi> abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) writes:
>
>You people are really humour impaired.   You have  to  see a smiley or
>hear someone laughing before you know that it was supposed to be joke.
>I don't use  smileys and expect people to understand a joke as a joke,
>which is clearly the case here.  Who am I to decide who counts and who
>does not ?
>
>It  takes some tenacity  to survive  on  this newsgroup  and sensitive
>people will have a hard time unless they  learn  to ignore things they
>don't like or don't understand. 
>
>Abhay

Abhay:

 Check out soc.culture.british. It is an unwritten rule there that no-one
uses smileys, you are supposed to be able to work out what is meant to me
humourous and what is meant to be funny by (a) reading it, and (b) thinking
about it. There's a lot to be said for this habit, I think.

Paul
Xref: sparky rec.food.veg:10268 talk.politics.animals:9530
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,talk.politics.animals
Subject: Re: AR Prisoners in need of your written support
Date: 10 Nov 92 21:26:59 GMT
Followup-To: rec.food.veg
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

amcmicha@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Andrew McMichael) writes:
>In article <swood.720929493@vela> swood@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Scott Wood - EVENSONG) writes:
>
>You had me until you started with the NRA drivel.  While I agree
>that it is mainly <poachers> vs. <hunters>  that are responsible
>for the population losses of rare game in the last 10-20 years,
>saying that 'Take away guns and only outlaws will have guns' is 
>nonsense.  Every time you catch someone with a weapon, take it
>away and destroy it.  Viola. One less killing machine.

     And in the time it takes you to do that, someone will have made
five more. Destroy all the guns, and they'll go back to bows and
spears.

     Responses to e-mail, please.

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@cs.umd.edu  |  "Born to die"   |   Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
                     Keep your values off my family.
  "Oh, I know it's a penny here and a penny there, but look at me. I worked
   myself up from nothing to a state of extreme poverty."
   -- Groucho Marx, "Monkey Business"
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abrams@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: Re: What is nutritional yeast?
Reply-To: abrams@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 13:06:35 GMT

On the question in the topic line, "What is nutritional yeast?" I have
an idea, but I hope that if I post, someone will post a correction. 
I thought that nutritional yeast was the same as Brewer's Yeast--
I mean, that it is the same organism.  That isn't the same kind of 
yeast as bread yeast, is it?  I mean, I know subjectively for sure
that it isn't.  

In college I learned to make "Country-Fried Tofu" which involved 
dredging the tofu in nutritional yeast.  The way I like to do it 
now is to press the water out of the tofu, cut it into  flat
triangular shapes, and roll each piece in nutritional yeast.   
Then I make sure to put a couple of cloves of garlic into the oil
before I put in the tofu.  (I press my garlic, but if you like to
chop it, go ahead.)  Sometimes also a little curry powder in the
oil beforehand, too.  I fry the tofu about five minutes on a side.
You can also marinate the tofu, drain it, and then dredge it in 
the yeast.  Nutritional yeast gets nicely crispy when you fry it,
and has a spicy taste that goes really well with garlic.  The
above recipe has a ton of fat, though.

I also like to eat whole wheat spaghetti with butter, soy sauce,
black pepper, and nutritional yeast.  The nutritional yeast makes
a creamy sauce--I just put all those things onto the hot pasta and 
mix it up until they melt together.  (It works with non-dairy margarine,
too.)                

(I use the kind of nutritional yeast that comes in flakes when I cook.) 

Again, correct me if I am wrong, but I think nutritional yeast has 
some nice B-vitamins which are good for stress.  I used to eat 
the yeast-fried tofu with mushrooms in an effort to get potassium,
protein and B-vitamins during academic stress-fests.  Of course, I 
didn't care about fat content then.  

Ruth Abrams
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: What is nutritional yeast?
Date: 7 Nov 92 15:15:47 GMT
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada

tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara McDermott) writes:

>Since I don't eat cheese, nutritional yeast tends to impart a very
>mild cheesy flavor.  It has a very rich flavor on its own.  One word
>of caution.  Don't EVER sniff or try to breath in raw nutritional
>yeast.  You'll be very sorry.  When I had to fill up the nutritional
>yeast bulk bin in my health food store, I used to have to fill it up
>holding my breath, then take a couple steps away to breath.  

Good point.  The powered nutritional yeast can indeed
be a potent snuff  ;-)  The large flaked yeast is 
less of a problem in this regard and one need not keep
it at arm's length  :-)
.
                                   ted
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Subject: Re: Get real, Abhay!
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 06:40:02 GMT

In article <1drvt2INNga5@STOVE.AI.CS.YALE.EDU> engelson-sean@cs.yale.edu (Sean Philip Engelson) writes:
>
>In article <1992Nov11.055656.29881@abo.fi>, abulsari@aton.abo.fi (A. Bulsari) writes:
>|> In article <1992Nov10.154835.25333@u.washington.edu> twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin) writes:
>|> >In article <1992Nov10.070847.13173@abo.fi> abulsari@aton.abo.fi writes:
>|> >>The result of last several postings is a consensus - 
>|> >
>|> >Who did you poll to arrive at this general agreement?  You didn't         
>|> >contact me.
>|> 
>|> You don't count.
>
>I didn't want to join this flame-fest, but this is just too much.  In other
>words, anyone who doesn't agree with you doesn't count.  Rather easy to rack up
>a consensus that way, don't you think?

Read  my previous  followup.  I am surprised that people can no longer
recognise a joke without seeing smileys.

Abhay

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,talk.politics.animals
From: todd@refrig.dixie.com (Todd H.)
Subject: Re: California Condor and hunters
Organization: the Bear Creek Tinkerer's Society and Social Club
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 15:50:03 GMT

andrewt@watson.ibm.com (Andrew Taylor) writes:

>There have been at least 3 Whooping Cranes shot in the last 5 years
>("I thought it was a Snow goose"). As presumably only a fraction of such
>shooting are discovered, this mortality could be seriously limiting the
>Whooping Cranes recovery.

Well, early in the article you posted, you started with some quotes, although
from an out-dated and yes, misinformed book.  There has NEVER been a hunting
season for condors.  Semantics again must apply - poachers are not hunters.

The attack here is on sport hunting, but the ammunition used doesn't apply
to modern sport hunters.  When you get something showing that sport hunters
shot condors, give me a call.

Now, to address the quote above - yes, some cranes have been shot mistakenly
by sport hunters.  No, not because they thought they were snow geese, but 
because they were mistaken for sandhill cranes, which are LEGAL to hunt.  You
have completely left out the fact that the hunters then *turned themselves
in* for shooting the cranes in each case.  How many AR whackos have turned
themselves in for burning a building lately?  Also, your offhand statement
that "only a fraction of such shootings are discovered" is bullshit.  The
whooping cranes are so over-studied right now that the biologists know each
bird like a friend.  If one turns up missing, they launch a search party.  To
believe that hunters are killing them en-masse is naieve at best.

Now, just so you don't think I'm hiding anything, last year in Minnesota two
trumpeter swans were shot by goose hunters in two completely separate incidents
Both hunters turned themselves in (astounding, huh?  Not really.), and each
face a fine of $5,000 and loss of thier hunting licenses for five years.  Each
hunter also bears the weight of guilt for making such a mistake, and when you
are as involved in the outdoors as greatly as most hunters, that weight would
be a burden indeed.  How much guilt do you bear, supporting and financing
the terrorist acts of the Animal Rights Movement?


-- 
Todd++;
------------------
todd@refrig.dixie.com
Organization: Office of Planning & Budget, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:37:52 -0500 
From: Sudha Venkataraman <sv22+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: REQUEST: appetizers



Could those of you with interesting recipes for appetizers please send
me email? If there is sufficient interest, I will summarize and post.
Thanks.

Sudha
sv22@andrew.cmu.edu 

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: ceg@nova3.stanford.edu (Chris Gronbeck)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: why vegetarianism?
Date: 13 Nov 1992 13:25:12 GMT
Organization: Int'l. Inst. for Energy Conservation
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: nova3.stanford.edu

In article <BxMs8A.Guw@unix.amherst.edu> aspandia@unix.amherst.edu (ANAND SANKAR PANDIAN) writes:
>
>An open question: Does anyone out there have any theories of vegetarian
>ethics that don't rest on the "badness" of killing animals? It seems as
>though death is a part (integral part) of the life cycle, and an ecologically
>conscious ehtics of vegetarianism would take that into account. Any ideas?

Actually, almost no one I know who is vegetarian is such solely or
even mainly due to a belief that killing animals is wrong.  I
would guess that a third of my vegetarian friends are veggie
because they believe factory farming and other forms of animals
torture are bad, a third due to health-related factors, and a third
because they just don't like meat.

Death is certainly as natural and necessary as life, but what
animals experience in conventional manufacturing facilities is
about as unnatural and unnecessary as it gets.  

Christopher
ceg@nova.stanford.edu

Opinions are mine.

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: dwalker@bnr.ca (David Walker)
Subject: Re: Vegitarian Traveling
Reply-To: dwalker@bnr.ca (David Walker)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 20:51:23 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.215110.26327@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA>, djordan@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (David Jordan) writes:
|> Eric,
|> 
|> The publishers of *Vegetarian Times* publish a *Guide to Natural
|> Food Restuarants in North America*.  I have used it often.  It is
|> a life saver for a vegan.  It is getting out of date.  Some restuarants
|> have closed.  It doesn't always tell you about the atmosphere of
|> a place.  
|>
|> ....

Since we're always completely up-to-date here on the net, someone (me??)
should probably volunteer to collect a list of all good veggie restaurants
around the planet, based on our fellow netters' experiences.

This list could be posted periodically to r.f.v and news.answers.
It could be a real life-saver (literally!) and, best of all, would be free!! 

Opinions?



Dave.
======================================================================
David R. Walker                             | phone:    (613) 763-5304
Bell-Northern Research, Ltd.                | fax:      (613) 763-8312
P.O. Box 3511, Station C                    | internet: dwalker@bnr.ca
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada K1Y 4H7             | 
======================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: artemis@netcom.com (Michelle Dick)
Subject: Re: Continental airline food
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 23:23:52 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.201830.24918@leland.Stanford.EDU> coleman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Michele Coleman) writes:
>Their computer does seem to have a problem remembering my special
>order, so I've learned to call again a couple days before my flight
>to remind them.

All the airlines seem to have a great deal of trouble remembering the
special meals.  I've ordered Kosher quite a bit and the success rate
has been about 60%.  You should confirm, reconfirm, and double check
at the gate.  Once (after two flights no meal) I confirmed twice,
checked again at the baggage counter and at the gate, notified the
flight attendent as I boarded and they still didn't have the meal (oh,
I'm terribly sorry, we must have forgotten to load the special meals.
Here's a certificate for food at the airport).  Phooey.

--
Michelle Dick
artemis@netcom.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: andrea@crispus.camb.inmet.com (Andrea Greenidge)
Subject: Re: The protein myth
Organization: Intermetrics Inc, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:50:36 GMT


hopefully you will receive this posting, I am new to the net...


I am very interested in the references you make to protein and how "meat" is 
not truely required in our diets.  However, you continually refer to meat. 
I know that fish and poultry are also both sources of protein but do the 
same rules stand for them as they do for beef?
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: nsingh@hqsun5.oracle (Naunihal Singh)
Subject: Re: Cravings
Organization: Oracle Corp., Redwood Shores CA
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 04:46:16 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

I would like to second some of the things I've seen here.
The best way to combat these cravings is to diversify your diet.
Perhaps the reason you have meat cravings is that cutting the meat
from your diet left you with very few textures, and adding more
textures to your repertoire (sp?) would alleviate this.  I've seen
posts from people on this newsgroup who had diets which seemed to
consist solely of brown rice and steamed vegs - not exactly the most
diverse variety of meals. Similarly - fat helps keep flavors in foods.
If you cut fat remember to do something else to enhance your foods,
like using spices, otherwise your meals will most probably be blander
than before. A cuilinary advantage of this is that you have, at your
disposal, a much wider array of flavors and textures than you would if
you were to stick to a high fat diet. Lastly, if you vary your meals
enough you should be able to indulge in something high fat from time
to time, to satisfy your cravings, without any ill effects. For
example, I can't imagine any harm from an occasional pakora binge (:)
yum) if everything else you eat is balanced correctly.

				Naunihal
I have a .singh file
From: howard@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: TVP
Date: 11 Nov 92 16:50:25 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Nov11.152541.25740@pixel.kodak.com>, rhuls@liebnitz.ssd.kodak.com (Robbin Huls) writes:
> In article <BxI9wt.M4o@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> xmpp@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Melody Paul) writes:
>>What about the MSG in these porducts, someone told me that ADM has MSG.  How
>>about Morningstar, Heartline and others?
> 
> TVP does not contain MSG.  The hydrolized VP may or may not contain MSG
> (so it is not a direct a.k.a for TVP as someone posted earlier).
> 
> Robbin


I checked last night. Harvest Burgers by ADM do not contain MSG, so I
would assume that their other products available via mail order also
do not (they also do not contain dairy products).  Morningstar
Farms do (and also contain egg whites). Heartline does not (no dairy). 
Plain TVP would not (also no dairy), since plain tvp is soybeans with the 
oil spun out of them. 

-Mary Howard

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@aton.abo.fi (A. Bulsari)
Subject: Re: Conclusions about Ted Altar
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 06:05:22 GMT

In article <altar.721430085@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
>Just to help put things into perspective, I am guessing
>that Abhay's well-intentioned (and I must confess, appreciated),
>defense of my person was motivated by a concern that I or anyone
>else, don't get discouraged by the few who sometimes lapse into

That was only a part of the motive.

>rudeness and mean-spirited remarks.  In fact, I am here solely
>due to Abhay's encouragement and good advice to not let the few
>destructive remarks that sometimes occur to deter one from 
>participating in a more constructive manner.  This is only
>to explain Abhay's over-generous and misplaced generalization,
>not to justify it.

Why  do you  call  it a misplaced generalisation  ? Because  you don't
agree ? It is easy to call  me over-generous and such bullshit without
giving any reasons. If you  can,  explain why you  can't be called the
single  most  important  poster on  r.f.v. 

I don't really want to get into arguments. I will usually ignore them
but writing this kind of stuff provocates me to ask for it.

Abhay

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: djordan@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (David Jordan)
Subject: Re: Vegitarian Traveling
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:51:10 GMT

Eric,

The publishers of *Vegetarian Times* publish a *Guide to Natural
Food Restuarants in North America*.  I have used it often.  It is
a life saver for a vegan.  It is getting out of date.  Some restuarants
have closed.  It doesn't always tell you about the atmosphere of
a place.  But it is a good start.

Any issue of their magazine will tell you how to order it.  I think
because it is getting out of date that it is reduced in price.

David Jordan
djordan@Spartan.ac.Brocku.ca


gundrum@svcdudes.com (Eric Gundrum) writes:
: 
: Does anyone know of a guide to vegitarian restaurants around the country? 
: I find traveling and eating a frustrating experience. My vegitarian
: friends agree. Sometimes it gets to the point where I just don't want to
: leave the Bay Area, inspite of all its failings, because it is so hard to
: reliably find good eating.
: 
: Thanks in advance.
: 
: --eric
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@aton.abo.fi (A. Bulsari)
Subject: Re: Conclusions about Ted Altar
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 05:56:56 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.154835.25333@u.washington.edu> twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin) writes:
>In article <1992Nov10.070847.13173@abo.fi> abulsari@aton.abo.fi writes:
>>The result of last several postings is a consensus - 
>
>Who did you poll to arrive at this general agreement?  You didn't         
>contact me.

You don't count.



So Ted, please  keep posting. People  like everything you post, and we
all look forward to reading your postings.

We  should be  grateful  to him  for being  the single  most important
source  of informative  postings  on r.f.v.  It is to  a  good  extent
because of him and Ferrell Wheeler and  Michael Traub that people want
to read this newsgroup.


With regards,

A. Bulsari
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: California Condor and hunters
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 05:41:02 GMT

In <fnh1!jk@rpi.edu> vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John S. Van Etten) writes:

>Hunters have been recently advocating use of FMJ bullets on varmints
>that are left in the field to be eaten by scavengers such as the
>condors.  We understand that there is some problem with lead being
>left in the carcasses.  The FMJ bullets should help minimize it.  I'm
>not aware of any legislation about it, but this issue is being more
>widely publicized.  In fact, we recently (several months ago) had a
>discussion of it over in the rec.hunting forum.

	FMJ bullets are quite good if chosen properly.  I've used FMJ
in a .30-30 and found they worked well on varmints like squirrel and
rabbit, as the non-expanding bullet didn't completely gut the carcass
and shred all the meat into a pulp.  Beware, though, the political climate.
That .30-30 with a FMJ round was a Cop-Killer bullet capable of penetrating
a bulletproof vest.  (yawn!  So's a standard broadhead from an arrow, given
the same vest).  I suspect this will be touchy political ground in the
near future.

	Also note that going to FMJ bullets requires that the shooter be
extra careful of what's in a 60 degree arc behind the target, as the
bullet will likely penetrate and keep on going.  Look for it also to be
used by some idiot as a reason to phase out hollow-points, soft-nose
and most likely Hydra-Shok bullets, all of which work great as handgun
rounds against small game and varmints.

	The logical step, of course, is to outlaw black powder hunting,
but I doubt that will be a serious challenge.  There is word of a lead
tax that would be somewhat costly, and will Al Gore presiding over the
Senate I'll give even odds on this passing this year if introduced.

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<  "This isn't an answer, it's a pagan dance around a midnight fire  >
<   written in intellectual runes." -- Rich Young                    >
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg