From: watt-alan@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hand-loads for defense (was Re: Occasional Dud in Glock 20)
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:12:14 GMT
Organization: Yale University, Computing & Information Systems


In article <tmi.716195944@well.sf.ca.us>, tmi@well.sf.ca.us (Peter Kasler) writes:
|> In <13400041@iftccu.boeing.com> bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler) writes:
|> 
   ...
 
|> #You don't need to call attention to what you did, you need to clearly
|> #establish that you were reacting to a self defense situation.  You want
|> #to clearly establish that the person on the ground is the asshole, not
|> #you.
|> 
|> 	You're on the right track, but even better advice is to avoid
|> saying anything at all substantive about what did or did not occur.
|> Also, I would suggest not using a written statement prepared at an
|> earlier time. It is okay to know what you're going to say before such
|> an incident occurs, if one ever does, but that's all. Say something to
|> the cops such as: "I don't mean to appear obstructionist, but I have
|> been advised to say nothing about what did or did not happen unless
|> and until my lawyer is present. Please do not ask me any questions."
|> 
|> 	Making *any* statement about what happened, about how you feel
|> or felt at the time, or about anything else, once said, can never be
|> retracted. I have seen too many situations where someone sincerely
|> believed himself to have acted within the law (and usually did) and
|> felt he must say something to the cops, and later regretted it.
|> 
|> -- 
|>                            Peter Alan Kasler
|>                       Threat Management Institute
|>                  800 West Napa Street, Sonoma, CA 95476
|>      Voice: 707-939-0303  =  tmi@well.sf.ca.us  =  Fax: 707-935-1713
|> 

Yes, you want to decline making a statement in some
way other than the cop is used to from every cheap punk on the street.
Saying "I don't gotta say nuttin' widout my lawyer" is within your
legal rights, but it sort of starts you off on the wrong side of the
investigating officer.  He (she) may be a hard-nosed S.O.B. in a hostile
jurisdiction out to burn your ass, but then again he (she) might be
a reasonable officer who would give you a break if you appear to deserve
it.  Something like "He tried to kill me.  I want to cooperate with you,
but for something this serious, I want my attorney present."
avoids committing you to details which may be rebuttable later while
still presenting the appearance of a law-abiding innocent citizen.  If
nothing else, it may just get you held in a separate lock-up from the
motorcycle gang members while you wait for your attorney.

Massad Ayoob talks about several cases of "denial response" where the
shooter's first statement is "it was an accident; someone bumped me and
the gun just went off".  Later (sometimes just moments), the shooter
recovers and admits deliberately pulling the trigger.  This discrepancy
does not look good on the record, but has been defended on the grounds
that the decent person has an instinctive revulsion against even a justified
shooting strong enough to force out an initial denial.  I don't know
whether this is a valid psychological phenomenon or just a convenient
legal fiction, but it does suggest you might not be any very good shape
to make detailed statements immediately after a shooting.

The whole problem with giving advice for this kind of situation is the
very real possibility you will be in no shape to remember it, let alone
follow it.  If you can manage to limit yourself to "He tried to kill me"
over and over again, that's probably best.

Another consideration is if there is *any* chance there is evidence
to corroborate your defense, and this evidence might disappear, you
need to make the responding officer aware of it.  For example, you come
out of the restroom at a truck stop late at night and you are attacked
by an assailant who fires at you.  It is important for your case that
the assailant's bullet be recovered.  It might be lodged in the trailer
body of the truck which was behind you at the time, but which will pull
out and be on its way to God knows where while you're waiting for your
attorney at the police station.

Finally, a word about lawyers.  You don't want a big-name criminal lawyer.
Big name criminal lawyers spend their lives defending (surprise) criminals.
They often figure they've done their job if they plea-bargain down to "only"
a year in prison -- "hell you could've gotten 20 years; you should thank me".
Ideally, what you want is a  well-respected local attorney who knows the
self-defense statutes.  Flying in a big-name mouthpiece whose credentials
are defending Mafia hitmen is probably just going to make the local authorities
want to throw any book at you they possibly can.
-- 
  Alan S. Watt
  Yale University			Computing and Information Systems
  Box 2112 Yale Station			(203) 432-6602
  New Haven, CT  06520-2112		Watt-Alan@Yale.Edu