HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Monday, 27 Jul 1992 15:48:47 EDT
From: <LSMITH@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject:    Amy Grant and her "Crossover" Music

I have a question to anyone out there who's listening (or reading as the case m
ay be).  This subject may have been discussed before, but as a new user I wante
d to get some opinions of fellow Christians.  What do you think of Amy Grant's
crossover into contemporary music?

I know a lot of people have problems with groups like BeBe and CeCe Winans and
 Take 6, but I believe that as long as the message is clearly promoting GOD and
 does not straddle the fence, there should be no problem with the way the music
 sounds.

However, Amy's last album, and her most famous song "Baby, Baby" did not have a
nything to do with God.  How could she truly profess to be a Christian when she
 is singing music that does not edify Him?
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 10:28:47 EDT
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         Brenda Curry-White <BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      US Politics-Christian/non-Christian values of politicians

Urban Research Institute
Phone: 502-588-6626

    "Hm.  Still, is it better to trust someone who is apparently sincere in
     holding values that are non-Christian?  "Lesser of two evils" springs
     to mind..."

Before I respond to this, let me say that I am a registered Democrat/Ross
Perot supporter.  That being said, this statement strikes me as odd to say the
least.  Of course we only have two choices for president, but really...

Assuming that you mean Clinton's values are non-Christian and Bush's are
Christian (albeit he waffles on them), could you be a little more specific
about exactly * what * values you are referring to?  I am willing to assume
for the moment, until you tell me differently, that you consider Clinton's
abortion stance to be "non-Christian".  There are many Christians (myself
included) who would disagree with you.  In his acceptance speech, he said
something close to:  Hear me.  I am not pro-abortion, but I believe abortion
should be a woman's choice.

Exactly what values of Mr. Bush do you feel are Christian?  Tax breaks for
the wealthy while increasing taxes for the poor?  Battleship diplomacy?
Choosing "values" so long as they are convenient?  Lying (remember
"Read my lips?")?

The truth is, both candidates stand for different values and priorities.
If you are willing to label one of those candidate's values as "non-Christian",
you'd better be willing to label a whole lot of Christians as "non-Christian."
Even if you are willing to do that, you'd better be * very * sure that you
have considered * all * of the values * both * candidates stand (or waffle)
for, rather than just one.

Hm.  Still, is it better to trust someone who is apparently sincere in
holding to values of some kind, as opposed to someone who may waffle
on holding to whatever values will get him elected?  "Lesser of two evils"
springs to mind...

Brenda
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Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 01:23:54 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      DC Talk

Hi All:

(No, this is not about politics.)

I happened to catch the Arsenio Hall show tonight.  (I was watching it
in the sense that the tv was on and I could hear it, but not watching
it in the sense that when it first started I was in the kitchen
varnishing a bookcase :-) ).  DC Talk, the Christian rap group, was on,
and they actually got to sing three songs (well, part of them anyway,
they were sitting in with the band and only got to lead in and out of
commercials) about Jesus!  I was pretty impressed, but a bit puzzled,
since Arsenio is of the "Course in Miracles" brand of semi-Christianity
(like Oprah), and DC Talk is three evangelical Christians who went to
Liberty Baptist and are pals with Jerry Falwell.  Curiouser and curiouser....

                              Love INC,
                                       --Kerry
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Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 15:34:57 EST
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Changing Opinions (Cease fire!)
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU
              "scsd1055@ALTAIR.SELU.EDU" at Jul 29, 92 12:13 am

>The main problem here is that so many people here
>on the list see issues as either black or white with no shades of grey.
>
>
>Bill Plunkett

Well so many issues in christianity ARE Black and White issues..

We are either sheep or goats, I dont remember any reference to a black sheep
or a white goat for instance.. Something is either a sin, or it isnt.. There
isnt any inbetween...

Abortion is EITHER child slaughter, or its valid birth control.

Why pretty things up with shades of grey arguments that don't exist or are
not valid???



---------------------+-------------+-----------------------------------------
Ian Williams         |    _--_|\   |      Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems       |   /      \  |	  Phone	  : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia  |   \_.--*_/  |
                     |         v   |
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Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:42:32 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Christian Fiction (long)

Amy:

I'm not quite sure what you meant by your response about Larry Burkett.
I didn't mean in any way to criticize Burkett or economists--I was
only expressing my surprise that someone who writes mostly on finance
(which is one kind of writing) can come up with a gripping and well
written *novel* (which is an entirely different type of writing!)

I'm sure that many (perhaps most) economists are fine people.  I
certainly respect anyone who can balance their own checkbook (not
me), much less anyone who can teach others (like me) to do the
same!
     Love INC,
              --Kerry
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 01:23:15 EDT
From:         Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Establishment

Darren wrote, "Additionally, there is a robbery on both sides.  If we
require Christianity, then non-Christians cannot choose to follow
their own religious beliefs; this is obvious.  But as my wife Nancy
pointed out last week, it is important to her that she chose to be
Episcopalian; had she been born where there was an established
church, she'd have been Anglican by law and would not have made any
choice to be Episcopalian.  Being compelled by law to attend an
Anglican church removes the importance of making the choice.  If
somebody shoves you where God would have led you, then you are not
following God; you are just being pushed.  In the same way, it is
important to me that I am an active follower of Christ; if the gov-
ernment required Christianity from everybody, then my own profession
of faith would be meaningless."

That is true but irrelevant.  Establishment does not necessarily mean
forcing everyone to attend the established church.  The Church of
England (The Anglican Church) is established in England, but English-
men are not required to attend it.  The government does not even pay
the salaries of Anglican clergymen (unless they are chaplains, etc.,
but non-Anglican chaplains are also paid by the government.)  The
Sovereign must be Anglican and must promise to uphold the Church of
England. Bishops are named by the sovereign.  The Archbishops of
Canterbury and York and 21 senior bishops are members of the House of
Lords, and that's about it.  However, that specific church, the
Church of England, is the Established Church.

One can find all sorts of unseemly things in history, but there are
other countries that now have an established church--I think the
Lutheran Church is still the established church in Sweden--and I
don't know of any country today with an established Christian church
that requires everyone in the country to attend it or that outlaws
all other religions.

Many university libraries used to mail dissertations, not to individ-
uals, but to other libraries as part of interlibrary loan.  That is
less common nowadays because many dissertations are available for
purchase on paper or in microform from University Microfilms.  Dar-
ren's father-in-law's dissertation is one of them.  If anyone wants
it--my guess is it will cost around $35--ask me and I will send the
address and 800 number and the catalog order number.

Marty Helgesen
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 14:47:36 -0700
From:         jstahley@QUALCOMM.COM
Subject:      Thank You
X-To:         multiple recipients of list christia
              <christia@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>

I would like to Thank all of you for kind words of support,encouragement
and love. Most of all, you have shown me a lighted path thru the darkness
and I know now that I am not alone. Would anyone have the time or resources
to do a online, one to one discipleship with me?
                                JSTAHLEY@ATHENA.QUALCOMM.COM

                                RECEIVING INSPECTION DEPARTMENT
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Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:12:22 EDT
From:         Julie Nott <STR008@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Sandi Patti*Mike Warnke

I read a post a few days ago that briefly mentioned rumors about Mike
Warnke & Sandi Patti.  Although I have heard the ones about Mike Warnke -
though as the word says they may be rumors - I haven't heard anything
about Sandi Patti.  If someone could clue me in on what's going on, I
would appreciate it.

I'd just like to know if I should or shouldn't be listening to them,
ignore the rumors (if that's all they are) etc.

Thanks, Julie
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 13:24:55 EST
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      vote

I am in favour of the list staying the same as it is at the moment, supervised,
but not censored..

Thanks..

---------------------+-------------+-----------------------------------------
Ian Williams         |    _--_|\   |      Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems       |   /      \  |	  Phone	  : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia  |   \_.--*_/  |
                     |         v   |
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 07:22:27 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Carnes ... Systematic Theology

Dear Chris Lamay ;

I made a mistake by inferring, at least tacitly, that Truth was dependent
upon experience to some extent.
This is not true.  Example : It is true that God metaphysically exists, but
that Truth cannot be experienced by us.  We cannot experience God's REALITY,
metaphysically speaking.  It is totally God's own subjective experience.

So, TRUTH can and does exist apart from experience.


Jesse Irwin Carnes
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 08:34:44 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Abortion flames
              28 Jul 1992 08:37:48 EDT from <BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>

Brenda:

Thank you for your kind words.  I think it is important to remember that,
while we may disagree, we must each continue to speak the truth in love,
no matter what the issue.

I hope we can continue this discussion with zeal for the Lord and love
for each other.
               Love INC,
                        ---Kerry

PS:  Brenda, how are you feeling these days?  And what's going on with
your women's group, if you don't mind sharing (that *was* you, wasn't it?
My apologies, if not. :-) ).
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Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:52:35 EDT
From:         Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Thanks God, I'm alive!

Chris,

I thank God for your safety too.  I had a tree fall on me and my husband in
our car and nobody could believe we survived too.  Praise God who watches over
us.
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Original_To:  BITNET%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 10:31:00 EST
From:         WKJ <JAMES@XAVIER.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Reply to Carol on mult. persons

Maks,
        Yet it is Him as well " who for the JOY that was set before Him
endured the cross...and is now set down...waiting..."   Also, " moved with
compassion because 'they' seemed as sheep w/no shepherd".
        Lastly, ultimately, " the same; yesterday, today, forever...": a crier.

WKJ
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 16:26:33 CDT
From:         Anthony Glen Jeffries <jeffries@IASTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Bible study deadline
X-To:         Practical Christian Life <CHRISTIA%ASUACAD.bitnet@ksuvm.ksu.edu>
              30 Jul 92 14:01:19 -0800. <9207302059.AA26329@po-1.iastate.edu>

>I'm interested in the Bible Study.

I am also interested in this Bible study.

>>
>> The deadline for letting me know that you are interested in joining the
>> Bible Study group is August 1 (Saturday.)  Thanks for your interest.
>>
>> We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion.
>>
>>                                              Love INC,
>>                                                       ---Kerry
>>

Anthony Glen Jeffries N0NRO              |------------------------|
N0NRO@N0AN.IA.USA.NA (packet--ham radio) |-Iowa State University--|
jeffries@iastate.edu                     |-------Ames, Iowa-------|
tabl4@isuvax.iastate.edu                 |------------------------|
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Original_To:  CHRISTIA
Original_cc:  HUTTER
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:56:00 N
From:         Wolfgang Hutter <HUTTER@DULRUU51.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Spiritual leadership in the home

In a message of Fri, 24 Jul 1992 04:57:52 GMT
Received on Fri, 24 Jul 92 21:10 N
N. L. Tinkham <nlt@GBORO.GLASSBORO.EDU> wrote:

>     Still, more examples would be helpful to me.  For those of you in
>hierarchical marriages, can you give me, say, 3 or 4 examples of spiritual
>leadership that occur in your home in a typical week?

As I said before: spiritual leadership is not always 'visible'. There
may be weeks in which you won't see anything indicating this leadership.
Someone also pointed out that it is not a question of practice, but of
state and so it is difficult to answer your question, but I will try.
These things may not be specific for spiritual leadership, but they come
out of my realizing this position.

        * Praying for the health of/blessing my wife and children
        * Contemplating about our spiritual life
        * Making our opinions/wishes known to our elders
        * Caring about complaints from our neighbors
        * Defending my wife against (false) accusations/expectations

>What do you do at
>church, in your prayer life, or in your other activities that you would do
>differently if the husband were the wife's peer instead of her leader?

It's difficult for me to think that way, but if I were the wife then I'd
enjoy my husbands care for me and lean back in situations where I'd have
to act as husband. Some things would (hopefully) not be affected at all,
but as I said above: leadership is not (foremost) an act, but a state.

>     Two people introduced terminology that I need definitions for.
>1) Wolfgang Hutter said that the husband's leadership shelters his wife from
>spiritual attacks.  Exactly what kind of spiritual attacks are intended
>here?  Can you give some examples?

I don't know which kind of attacks we will have to face or which kinds
there are at all (maybe Ian has more experience and/or knowledge), but I
think of (unnatural) despair, diseases or doubt.

Wolfgang <><

P.S.: Risking to be viewed as foolish, but why are your last names
different? - JFMI... you may answer this privately, since it has nothing
to do with the subject.
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 00:52:22 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      David and resurrection

In reply to Leo W on David:

Peter, preaching in Jerusalem seven weeks after the Resurrection
(Acts 2:29-34), quotes the words of David (Psalm 16:8-11):

 + Thou wilt not abandon my soul to Hades,
 + Nor let thy Holy One see curruption.

He then goes on to say, "Is David talking about himself? Did he
escape the fate of rotting away in the tomb? Not at all. His tomb is
with us to this day!"

The traditional site of the Upper Room in Jerusalem and the
traditional site of David's tomb are immediately next to each other.
It is tempting to suppose that Peter, as he spoke these words,
pointed dramatically to the tomb, or even pounded his fist for
emphasis on the wall of the Mausoleum. His point, so obvious to his
immediate hearers that he did not need to state it explicitly, was
that the tomb of Jesus was NOT with them to that day, that it was
notoriously empty, to the scandal of Jerusalem and the embarassment
of the Sanhedrin, and that anyone who chose could take a walk
outside the city wall and check it out for himself. It was of Jesus,
not of himself, that David spoke in this passage, and Peter
challenged his hearers to accept Jesus as the fulfilment of all that
had been promised to Israel through the prophets.

It was part of his point that David's body had rotted away like that
of other men. Whether David's soul (spirit, mind, consciousness,
what have you) was "asleep" until the general resurrection at the
last day, or awake in the presence of God, is a matter not germane
to his thesis, and not answered directly or indirectly in his
speech.

 Yours,
 James Kiefer
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 21:46:12 EDT
From:         Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Divorce and remarriage

Chris,

I feel for you.  I pray that God will lay his hand upon you and give you peace
and forgiveness in your heart.  I know there are alot of people here that
disagree with me but they have not walked in the shoes of others.  I have an
Aunt that divorced.  There is allowances in the bible for adultery and divorce.
But aside from that there are other even more painful circumstances that people
have to go through.  If others have not walked in their shoes and felt their
pain then how can they condemn them?  Alot of the same people that would have
a women stay with her husband while he beats her and berates her and causes her
to feel pain in her heart all the time while they spout the laws of God and
reap judgement upon her but they don't know her pain.  How can we say that a
marriage should continue when we are not in it?  Some people claim sin is sin
and they say the consequences are all the same.  Are they the ones that would
have an abused man or woman stay in a marriage of suffering and pain while
excusing their small sins.  It's easy to cast stones against others while
overlooking our own small sins.

God bless you Chris.  God alone will be your judge and he has known your pain.

Your friend in Christ, Bernice
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 01:58:23 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject: Re: Doxology

 > Does anyone out there know some of the other verses that are
 > sung to the same tune as the Doxology (Old 100th -- Praise God
 > from whom all blessings flow . . .)?
 >
 > Lon Mendelsohn

There is Old 100th itself, the metrical setting of Psalm 100 found
in many hymnals. It begins
   All people that on earth do dwell,
   Sing to the Lord with cheerful voice;
   Him serve with mirth, His praise forth tell.
   Come ye before Him and rejoice!

Other hymns often sung to the same tune include "From all that dwell
below the skies" (Psalm 117), "Before the Lord's Eternal Throne"
(Psalm 100), and "All praise to Thee, my God, this night." For more
hymns that CAN be sung to this tune, pick up almost any standard
hymnal, turn to the Metrical Index, and look under LONG METER
(L.M.).

 Yours,
 James Kiefer
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:03:43 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Prayer request

Fellow CHRISTIAns:

In Indianapolis, a 7-year old boy pleaded guilty to the charge of raping
a 6-year old girl.  He will also be testifying against his 7-year old
accomplice in that boy's upcoming trial.  The rape took place in an
empty classroom in an elementary school.

Please do not take this as an opportunity to argue about the school system,
moral values, parental authority, the media, or whatever.  Please pray for
all those involved, that the Lord can somehow bring something positive out
of this unbearably horrible situation.  I find that this goes beyond my
own capacity to imagine or to really internalize what has happened.  Though
this is not my community, my children, or really my business, I am deeply
saddened by this, and feel strongly led to ask prayer for this situation.

I have no words to express what I feel right now.   But thanks for listening.

                                                Love INC,
                                                         --Kerry
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Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 22:00:02 EDT
From:         brennan@HAL.HAHNEMANN.EDU
Subject: Attitudes? (or Nirked in Nineveh)

      Just wondering about this ... while we may be pleased that
   God is watching over us, looking after our lives, etc. - it can
   seem at times that He isn't doing what we planned, what we had
   thought he would do.

      And (plans gone astray) we aren't always joyously happy about
   God's plan in our lives.  We may submit to it - but perhaps not
   as willingly as possible.

      Does God take this into account - maybe even require the
   rebellious overtones to our submission?  Perhaps it's a piece
   of the plan to begin with?

      I dunno - just musing.  Jonah might not have been as effective
   if he hadn't been angry ... and he wouldn't have been as angry if
   he had submitted to God's plan willingly.

      Anyone care to dig out other references?

      andrew.  (brennan@hal.hahnemann.edu)
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 10:27:53 EDT
From:         Michelle Smith <SM#7@LAFAYACS.BITNET>

//      JOB   Echo=No
Database Search DD=Rules
//Rules DD    *
select christia help-net since April 1992
index
/*
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