HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: drchambe@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Dennis Chamberlin)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Encore for mpucket
Keywords: rec.aviation, netiquette, Never Again
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:58:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: tekig7.6629
Reply-To: drchambe@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Dennis Chamberlin)
Distribution: na
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <1992Aug19.065305.193@leela.cs.orst.edu> mpucket@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Margaret Puckette) writes:
>
>
>And
>how many are reluctant to share some knowledge out of fear of phrasing
>something 'wrong', or of being forced to endure the humiliation of
>stepping on someone's Pet Peeve?  How sad that many will not benefit
>from the experiences of others because of this...

Well said, Margaret. Welcome back.


>...my own "Never Again" story took place late at night, 2 years ago,
>in the clouds, when the engine quit because I RAN OUT OF FUEL!  So I
>was heroic and saved the plane, my life, and my kids...now do you think
>I should share my 'clever' handling of this emergency knowing I'd be
>reamed for the series of stupid decisions leading up to this?  Would
>you expose yourself (like I just did...boy, this is dumb :-< ) ??????
>
I, for one, am eager to hear the story. I am sure that running out of fuel
is something that you, I, and the rest of us would "never do". Like gear-
up landings. So, how *did* it happen, and how did you deal with it?

There is something to be learned from nearly every accident/incident, 
even the "dumb" ones. One thing that is dumber is to deny oneself the
opportunity to learn it.

Everyone's logbook includes contains hours when the pilot was not at his
best. Fatigue, fear, boredom, confusion, etc. A principal value of training 
and experience (including the shared experiences of others) is to develop
habits and responses that will serve us well when we are temporarily off
our customary pinnacle of perfection.

I expect I would be partially unhinged by the knowledge that my current
in-flight emergency was due solely to my own stupidity. So I would be
fighting an immediate mental handicap in dealing with the consequences. 
Read Ernie Gann's thoughts in "Fate is the Hunter" when he has just
entered a long and twisting fiord under a low overcast, without positively
identifying it as the correct fiord with an airfield at the end. He then 
gets to fly 30 miles up the tunnel that has either a runway or an
inescapable trap at the end. He spends much of the time rapidly revising 
his opinion of his own judgement and flying abilities.
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Goodyear Blimp
Date: 14 Aug 92 20:28:15 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <aero.713813517@neptune> aero@neptune.ecn.uoknor.edu (Aero Student Account) writes:
>The blimp that was in Houston left sometime last year.  Does
>anyone know if a replacement was based somewhere else, or
>is the fleet now down to three?

A replacement for _America_ is under construction; it will be based in Akron.
:-(
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
   "This is a network here, right?  How about giving a little thought to
            interoperability?" -- John F. Woods, to Brian Kantor
From: xde@xtxde.UUCP (Dave Evans)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Calibrated Airspeed (was: Stupid Pilot Trick Awards)
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:46:14 CDT
Organization: Not

In <1992Aug11.031046.13038@xymox.palo-alto.ca.us> (Phil Fernandez) writes:
> 
> I think it's you that is confused.  Calibrated Airspeed (CAS) is
> Indicated Airspeed corrected for *instrument error*.  This is, CAS is
> the "real" airspeed "felt" by the wings, etc.  In most cases, there is
> a small instrument error introduced by the pitot/static system
> depending on the angle of attack, etc.
> 
> Sometimes the POH performance numbers use IAS, and sometimess they use
> CAS, and sometimes they use both, but what matters for any performance
> number is the noted airspeed "type" shown in the POH.
> 
> pmf

Your right, I didn't get the words out of my head onto the screen as I had
planned. Basically, I am just trying say that on final you want to use
indicated, unless you figured calibrated before hand, ie: final is about the
last place you want to be figuring proper airspeeds. And I think everybody
agrees that groundspeed is not the recommened way to fly an approach..

Dave
-- 

   ----------------------------------------------------------------------
   - Dave Evans   ...!vpnet.chi.il.us!xtxde!xde - Insert something here -
   ----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cantrell@seqp4.sequoia.com (Paul Cantrell)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Manuverability of 727
Date: 17 Aug 92 20:49:18 GMT
Organization: Sequoia Computer Systems

In article <SHAFER.92Aug14175030@ra.dfrf.nasa.gov>, shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes:
> On 14 Aug 92 22:36:37 GMT, danodom@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Dan Odom) said:
> Dan> Exactly how manuverabe is a 727?
> 
> I've never seen a doghouse plot for a 727, so I can't be more specific.
> 
> As a transport goes, though, it's not bad.

Mary: What's a doghouse plot?

On the subject of 727s, I was having breakfast the other morning with a
friend who's a retired Delta captain. He told me a story about when he was
getting checked out in 727's. He said that a steep turn using the heading
bug caused spoilers to be used to initiate the bank, and that a reverse
airflow around the spoiler was induced causing the spoiler to refuse to go
back down at the end of the turn. The aircraft remained in an
uncontrollable turn for a short time while he figured out how to correct
the situation. During all future flights, he was careful to only move the
heading bug a few degrees at a time so that the flight control system
would just use aileron to make the turn. 

He also verified what we've heard before on rec.aviation - that it's
difficult to get consistently good landings on 727 because of the
placement of the landing gear.


					PC

-- 
cantrell@sequoia.com
From: PJERN@CHGVMIC1.VNET.IBM.COM
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Stupid Pilot Horror Story -- What I did
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:55:40 GMT

A lot of people wrote to ask me what airport in New Jersey was home
to the idiot I posted about.  I was afraid to post too many details,
but, upon reflection, what the heck.

This clown is based at N14 (Flying W airport).  (This information
is for avoidance purposes only).  I won't post his N-Number, but
the FAA knows about him, and (hopefully) something will be done.
I realize that anyone with half a brain could identify him with a short
field trip and access to a database.

I received a lot of suggestions as to what to do about it, both via
the net and email, ranging from "do nothing, you might get someone
else hurt" to "It's simple. You have to kill him."  (I hope there
was an (implied) smiley on the last one...)

I felt that I had to take the responsibility to do something.  What
I did, after a considerable amount of soul-searching, was to call the FAA
tip line. (Don't like how I fly? Call 1-800-GROUND-ME).  I felt
really bad about having to do it, but felt like there was no other
responsible option given the circumstances.  I still feel like a
traitor to the cause, somehow.  It's eerie.

The person who answered the phone at the FAA (a Mr. Stevens, I believe)
took all the information down, and said that someone would be checking
into it that very afternoon.

(Oddly enough, he didn't know where N14 was... he asked me what state
it was in.  I guess the people who answer the phones aren't necessarily
conversant with all that pilot-talk.)  He did *NOT* ask me my name
or for any other kind of identification.

I don't yet know what, if anything, has happenned.  I'll have to call
a friend out there pretty soon and see if I can find out.

Phil
From: jimm@simsol.UUCP (Jim Morris)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: TRSA's
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:46:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: simsol.175
Organization: Systems Simulation Solutions, Beaverton, OR

In article <1992Aug19.151636.11102@sdf.lonestar.org>, rjohnson@sdf.lonestar.org (Robert C. Johnson) writes:
- these funky looking things called TRSA's.  Huh?  OK, go to the AIM and
- check it out.  The AIM says generally that a TRSA is a area
- where stage III radar services are provided.  Pilots are encouraged
- to participate, but not required.  OK, great.  So I can just fly right
- through a TRSA and not worry about a thing?  I guess what I'm asking
- for here is some real world experience with TRSA's.  Is it as
- simple as the AIM makes them seem?  If I want it, it's there, if
- I don't, I don't have to do anything except fly along in an
- uncontrolled (from the ground) bliss?  Any experiances would be
- welcome!

I have flown through the McChord Air Force base TRSA many, many times.
I never talk to them.
From: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Number of U.S. Pilots  (w
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:48:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Advanced Computer Concepts BBS, New Rochelle, NY 914-654-1981
Reply-To: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 

ESD> .Hmmm... Let's see, Probably safe to assume (yes I, know about assuming)
   > .that all (ok, nearly all) of the ATPs are IFR.         107732
   > .Probably most of the Commercial tickets are IFR.    +  149666
   > .                                                    -------------
   > .                                                       257398
   > .If ALL of the Helicopter (only) folks are VFR only
   > .probably not the case, but let's suppose....
   > .                                           IFR         297073
   > .                                      ATP + COMM    -  257398
   > .                                                    ------------
   > .That means that only...............................     39675

ESD> .of Private Pilots are IFR,  or approx 13.26%

ESD> .Interesting.......

The arithmetic's good, but the assumptions are wrong.  ATP implies
instrument rating.  They're not listed separately.   So, distribute
those 107,732 IAs which you allocated to the ATPs to the Commercial and
Privates.

One of my less stagnant neurons says that about 30% of Pvt are Instr.
rated.  I _think_ this number came from an FAA pub.

        Best,
         D/

 * OLX 2.2 * Dick.Zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com
                                                      
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: fultz@scs.carleton.ca (Brian Fultz)
Subject: Re: Clearing customs
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 12:33:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.134850.23498@Princeton.EDU> awtron@strawber.princeton.edu (Andrew Tron) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug12.212103.22697@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> ron@turing.toronto.edu (Ron Wessels) writes:
>>>In article <ty4mgdq@quantum.on.ca> aboyd@quantum.on.ca (Andrew Boyd) writes:
>>>>Worse, you're not supposed to leave the a/c (even to pee) until the 
>>>>US customs guy has said it's OK to.  I wonder if he made it to oshkosh?
>>>
>>>True.  Although I'm not sure about staying in the aircraft, according
>>
>
I have had a few problems crossing the border.  I always call the customs
myself, I am posting this to support the people who say to do so.
Problem 1) ADCUS takes 1 hour to get to the U.S. custom station, I got
there first, was about to be "sent to the camps" when the call came
through
Problem 2) called myself and ADCUS flight plan got TWO C-GIKO in the
system, cleared one ( of course ), second copy of me got a blast for
not closing the flight plan ( why does the ATC system allow 2 aircraft
with same ident to fly to the same place at the same time? ).
Problem 3) getting back into Canada.  Put in flight plan. ADCUS.  Called
myself to Canada Customs.  Took off from Timmerman field ( not a small
backwater by the way ).  Contacted flight following to Windsor Ont with
C-GIKO Flight plan to ... .  Someone forgot to OPEN the flight plan ( me? 
remember in Canada flights over 25 miles are all flight plan or flight
notification so perhaps I don't know the U.S. system on this point )
When I got to Canada ATC never informed, landed went to Customs who
were expecting me O.K. with them.  When all shouting died down Clearence
Delivery says when contacted to leave Windsor "We called Timmerman,
found out you had put in the flight plan, so we won't shoot you BUT we
gave them SHIT!!!"  Sorry for the exact quote using 4 letter words.
I am sure the folks in the U.S. loved that.
All in all if you wish to live a long life with min hassel, call yourself.

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: tima@CFSMO.Honeywell.COM (Timothy D Aanerud)
Subject: The Upper Mid-West Air Usenet Fly In!
To: rec.aviation
Posted-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 14: 06:05 cdt
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:06:05 GMT
Received-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 14: 06:15 CDT

Announcing: An Upper Mid-West Air Usenet Fly-In! (umwaufi?)

Status Information:

     Where:  Ottumwa Iowa (OTM), then by ground or by air
	     to Blakesburg "Antique" Airport (5C2).
     When:   Saturday, August 29 at 11:00 CDT
     Why:    Why not?

The Antique Airplane Association Museum is located at the Blakesburg
Antique Airfield.  The museum has a collection of flyable aircraft
from the 1920's, 1930's and 1940's.  

The Ottumwa and Antique airports are on the Chicago sectional.  Open
the chart to the south side.  Antique is just south of the fold on
the western edge of the chart.  Ottumwa is 10 miles northeast of
Antique.

The longest runway at Antique Airfield is 2185 feet of turf.  Some
people may not be comfortable with landing there.  The plan is to
meet at Ottumwa Industrial and then commute by ground or air to
Antique.  The runways at Ottumwa are  much longer (6500 and 5200) and
fuel is available there for your return trip.  Fuel is not available
at Antique.

It has been reported that the FBO at Ottumwa has a courtesy car but
it's not a van and its not a too large either.  An attempt to reserve
the courtesy car will be made.  There are many restaurants at many
quality levels in the city of Ottumwa.   We'll decide where we want
to eat when we get there.

Who's going:
------------
Timothy Aanerud		<tima@cfsmo.honeywell.com>
   MIC    N53716    Skyhawk   white/blue         475lbs/3 seats
Richard Kaplan & Laura	<rkaplan@netcom.com> 
   RST    N2180Y    Archer    white/blue         260lbs/2 seats   
Yiannis Papelis		<yiannis@ccad.uiowa.edu>	 
   AMW     ???       

-------------

If your interested in attending this event please clip and *e-mail*
me the following form to me (tima@cfsmo.honeywell.com):


    Name:
    Net address:
    Coming by: __ light aircraft __ Driving
    Your home state (2-letter code):
    If light aircraft:
	Home airport (ID and name):
	Aircraft type:
	N-number:
	Color:
	Number of empty seats available:
From: pstinson@pbs.org
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Amy Johnson?
Date: 13 Aug 92 11:39:58 EDT
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA

In article <11AUG199208243836@watson.bms.com>, bullock@watson.bms.com (JOAN BULLOCK) writes:
>  
> Funny you should ask.  I recently received a flyer advertizing a book about 
> female American flyers.  Amy Johnson was not specifically mentioned but many 
> other pioneers and contemporaries were.
> 
> Specifics:
> 
>     _Ladybirds: The Untold Story of Women Pilots in America_
>     by Henry M. Holden, with Capt. Lori Griffith
>     Black Hawk Publishing Company
>     P.O. Box 24, Mt. Freedom, N. J. 07970
>     $19.95 + $3.00 p&h
>     ISBN 10879630-11-7
> 
> Chapters:
> 
>     1 - The Early Years - 1910s (Blanche Scott, Harriet Quimby, Matilde 
>         Moisant, Katherine & Marjorie Stinson ...)

I believe Marjorie Stinson gave flying lessons to many of the first Canadian
pilots who saw World War I action with the Royal Flying Corps.  I do not know
if this is mentioned in the book.

In any case, the book mentioned above does appear to be worth checking out.
Thanks for sharing the ordering information.
From: seymour@milton.u.washington.edu (Richard Seymour)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: ATC communications (was Re: "remain clear of the ARSA...")
Date: 13 Aug 92 00:50:29 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <7113@lib.tmc.edu> jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.172132.2328@athena.mit.edu> aviator@athena.mit.edu (Joakim Karlsson) writes:
>>One of the issues I had to consider was non-standard
>>air traffic control phraseology (e.g. "leaving four point five for six").
>
>My primary instructor taught me that that was the _right_ way to say it, so

(not a flame against your instructor... really!)
my instrument instructor keeps jumping all over me when i say "for" or "to"
 amidst numbers.. since they could be confused with "four" and "two"
But i have the devil's own time getting my mouth and mind around to
  an acceptable phraseology
--dick (who can usually babble on at will (or bill, or bob, or...))
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: olsen@xn.ll.mit.edu
Subject: New Nonprecision Approaches?
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory, Lexington, MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 03:27:12 GMT

Does anyone know what's going on with the effort to establish new
non-precision approaches at small airports?

First, there was a push to establish VOR/DME approches, where
applicable.  Then the new LORAN approaches were published.  For some
time, all the LORAN approaches (and a number of the VOR/DME ones) have
been under semi-permanent NOTAM's making them Not Authorized.

Now, the current edition of Aviation Week says that FAA testing of
non-precision GPS approaches will start this year, with new approaches
being published (and certified receivers available) in early 1993.
What gives?  Is the FAA pursuing LORAN and VOR/DME too, or has it
chosen GPS as the preferred non-precision approach aid for the future?
From: lmcgee@bondo.corp.sgi.com (Lee McGee)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: So what' so great about Nut Tree?
Date: 12 Aug 92 21:03:41 GMT
Reply-To: lmcgee@sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics Corp IS

In article <1992Aug12.162458.4804@telebit.com>, brent@telebit.com (Brent Chapman) writes:
> myshatyn@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Mike Myshatyn) writes:
> 
>So what's so great  about Nut Tree?  I seem to remember  some of the flyins
>going  there  so there  must be a  restaurant  on/near  the  field.  Is the
>restaurant  any good?  

No.

>  Do they serve  breakfast,  lunch and  dinner or only

Yep. They close kinda early for late dinners though.

>some of the above?  Anything  else to see or do on/near  the  field?  Email
>responses are fine unless you think the net would like to know also.

A little counterpoint to the negative responses already seen here:

We have a six-year-old daughter.  Nut Tree is one of her very favorite places
to travel to in Northern California.  I think the reason why is all the
stuff that they have to appeal to kids - a miniature railroad to ride
from the airport to the restaurant and stores; rocking horses to ride all
day; ice cream; usually a live band playing outside on weekends; nice
fun toy store; fun aviation store; well-stocked housewares-type gift store
which appeals to my wife.

For the adult aviator, check out Cecilia Aragon's operation "Flying 
Taildraggers" at the "general aviation (read non-Nut Tree store) part of
the field for 1st-class aerobatic instruction, AND you can actually rent a Pitts Special there if that is your taste!.

Take a taxi from there; another local attraction is the museum at Travis
Air Force base nearby.  Lots of MAC iron and Century series 
fighters parked outside the museum.

All in all, we've never failed to have an entertaining family day
at Nut Tree.  But an overpriced one, and the food is plain!

Joe Bob says check it out!

-- 
________________________________________________________________

Lee McGee
Silicon Graphics, Inc		"Simplicity, then add lightness"
lmcgee@sgi.com			   
PHONE (415) 390-2403	            -- William B. Stout --  
FAX   (415) 961-9584	              Ford Motor Company		
PAGE  (415) 807-2246          Formerly Stout Metal Airplane Company
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: aviator@athena.mit.edu (Joakim Karlsson)
Subject: ATC communications (was Re: "remain clear of the ARSA...")
Organization: Flight Transportation Associates, Cambridge, MA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 17:21:32 GMT

>In article <1992Aug10.171946.25649@pony.Ingres.COM>, kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki) writes:
>> I have picked up some habits from listening to the guys in the big iron.

My masters thesis dealt with the use of automatic speech recognition
in air traffic control.  One of the issues I had to consider was non-standard
air traffic control phraseology (e.g. "leaving four point five for six").
My opinion after completing my research is that the "guys in the big iron"
are just as sloppy in their phraseology as general aviation pilots, although
they tend to be more concise and to the point.  In all cases, the disregard
for standard phraseology is widespread.  I don't set a very good example
myself. :)  ...Joakim
--
Joakim Karlsson            | aviator@athena.mit.edu
Flying Fanatic in Training | Air: PP-ASEL  CAP: Freedom 110 Mobile  FCC: N1JHW
                 "Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth
                And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings"
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: M21208@mwvm.mitre.org
Subject: Re: Cellular phones again!  Argh!!
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 08:15:25 GMT

In article <16pdiiINNoje@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>
rob@cats.ucsc.edu (99708000) writes:
>
>I thought they were "not OK" (in flight, anyway).
>
>So, I pick up today's San Francisco Chronicle, and there
>is a Macy's ad selling pocket cellular phones and telling
>me how great it would be to be able to use it in a plane.
>I called the San Francisco FSDO thinking that they should
>get hold of Macy's and suggest a retraction--and what do
>I hear??  Something like "Oh, they're OK.  It's up to
>the individual carriers.  Try calling them."
>
You call the airplane people, you get an airplane answer.  The FAA only cares
about onboard electronic equipment in terms of of interference with the
operation of the aircraft.  As long as your cellular phone doesn't screw up
nav or comm functions, they're happy.  However, the FCC and the cellular
system operator would probably take a different view.  Try taking it up with
the FCC and see what happens...
 
Scott Dunham
m21208@mitre.org
 
From: scott@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Scott Turner)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 20:30:30 GMT
Subject: Re: AOPA response to AD's
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO