From: bud@kentrox.uucp (Bud Couch)
Subject: Re: Ignorance - Was Re: VOTE, BABY, VOTE!
Organization: ADC Kentrox, Portland OR
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 01:00:14 GMT

In article <1e1gv9INNi9l@SUNED.ZOO.CS.YALE.EDU> jovanovic-nick@cs.yale.edu (Nick Jovanovic) writes:
>In article <1992Nov13.224831.25736@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> Dr. Norman J. LaFave <lafave@ial4.jsc.nasa.gov> writes:
>>
>>Actually, mankind has an abysmal historical record
>>with regards to caring
>>for others. Just take a look at the unspeakable attrocities
>>being performed by the Serbians.
>>
>>Norman
>>
>
>Not to mention the unspeakable atrocities which have been performed on
>Serbians for the third time this century.  Serbia was one of the earlier-
>....

As an aside, for those of you who haven't figured it out, Mr. Jovanovic is of 
Serbian descent (the `vic patronym). His comments illustrate quite clearly
the problems that a few hundreds of years of ethnic and religious intolerance
can produce. Being raised in an environment in which phrases like "You can't 
trust a Serb", or "Those Croats are no damned good" culminates in the 
ability to see your opponent as less than human. Look at the result.

The root cause of the Serb-Croat hatred is further back than WWII. Religious 
differences (Serbs are (in general) Orthodox, while Croats are (again, in
general) Roman) and "holy" conflicts have occured between the two groups for
over 400 years. I'm not even sure that this is the "root", but whatever it may
have been, it it now extending hatred and bloodshed into the 21st century.

The mostly deleted paragraph is a subset of what is now being called "the 
politics of victimization", or what I call "your grandfather did (name your 
atrocity) to my grandfather, therefore I'm entitled to (pick your `redress")".
It makes as little sense here as it does in any other scenario.

>Serbia has not invaded Bosnia-Hercegovina.  More than 1,400,000 Serbs lived
>in Bosnia-Hercegovina before this latest war began.  Serbians have lived in
>...

Yeah, and that artillery and all the ammunition being used on Sarajevo was 
just laying around in the "local" Serbs basements.

Come on, there have been atrocities aplenty *on both sides*, and arguments 
which try to make a case that one side or the other is *more* justified in
*their* use of force simply prolongs the bloodshed, and makes the "next
time" all the more likely.

>I suggest that interested parties read:
>
>        Serbs and Croats: The Struggle in Yugoslavia
>        by Dr. Alex Dragnich
>        Harcourt, Brace, & Jovanovich, 1992
>
>
>for more information.
>
I'll try to find it, thanks.

>If you are ever forced to defend your own life on your own land, maybe you
>will remember what happened to the Serbians in 1991-92.

And what happened to the (    ) in (   ). That's not the point. What is the
point is that the Serbian Army is participating, right now, in a war on 
Bosnian soil for the Serbian Replublic's political gain.
-- 
  Bud Couch - ADC/Kentrox    | That which does not kill me makes me strong.  |
 If my employer only knew... |                              -Nietzsche       |
   standard BS applies	     | ... but why risk it?  - me                    |