HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: randy#@shocker.ee.twsu.edu (Randy Sessions - Super Acct)
Subject: Re: Can the Knot be carried forward to Boy
Organization: Electrical Engr. Dept, Wichita State Univ.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:14:34 GMT
X-Posted-From: gegan1.ee.twsu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Oct5.213142.23332@iplmail.orl.mmc.com> mwilson@orl.mmc.com (Mark Wilson) writes:
>From: mwilson@orl.mmc.com (Mark Wilson)
>Subject: Re: Can the Knot be carried forward to Boy
>Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 21:31:42 GMT
>In article 19090@col.hp.com, kary@col.hp.com (Dan Kary) writes:
>>Incidentally, the Scouters Key (adult award) can be earned by Cubmasters,
>>Scoutmasters and Commissioners.  It is appropriate to wear a Cub, Scout,
>>or Commissioner emblem pin on this knot to indicate the position where it
>>was earned.
>
>Not true anymore. Cubmasters may complete the requirements for the Cubmaster's
>Training Award. You may see a Scouter's Key with the Cub fixture. That was
>the appropriate award prior to 1988 plus a one year grandfather period. 
>The Scouters Key and the Scouters Training Award was replaced by a series of
>awards tailored to specific Cub Leader positions. The new Cub Leader training
>awards are for Cub Scouter, Den Leader, Webelos Den Leader, Den Leader Coach
>and Cubmaster.

I have to take this opportunity to say that there is also another Cub 
Scouter Award.  It can be read about in the last issueof Scouting.  There is 
also an award for Tiger Organizers now.  Also, the requirements for the Cub 
Scouter award have been modified to include many Tiger Cub activity 
requirements.

>
>The Scoutmastership Fundamentals version of the Scouter's Key includes the
>requirement to serve as a Scoutmaster for three out of five consecutive years.
>That would seem to exclude commissioners unless there is a different set of
>requirements for them. I though the equivalent for commissioners was the 
>Arrowhead award.
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Mark Wilson                              Martin Marietta E,I & M Group
>mwilson@orl.mmc.com                      Mail Point 170
>Phone: (407)356-6386                     P.O. Box 555837
>Fax:   (407)436-5482                     Orlando, FL, 32855-5837
>My opinions are my opinions, Martin Marietta can speak for itself.
>



---------------------------------
| randy#@shocker.ee.twsu.edu    |
|                               |
| Randy Sessions                | When in doubt, do it!
| Elecrical Engineering Dept.   |
| THE Wichita State University  |
| Wichita, KS                   |
---------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: dlm@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Deborah Maraziti (aka Spacee))
Subject: Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, and United Way
Organization: Institute for Astronomy, Hawaii
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:37:53 GMT

Aloha Girl Scout Leaders--

	A strange point was brought up at our Service Unit meeting last
evening.  A leader claimed that United Way does not give GSUSA as much as
the Boy Scouts because "...the Girl Scouts can make their own money selling
cookies."  She continued to say that if troops earned 50 cents per box
rather than the 40 cents we now retain, United Way would probably give
more to the Girl Scout Councils themselves (?????).  The whole issue
confused me.  Does anyone know how United Way funds us?  Is this a
national issue or perhaps something particular to the Aloha United
Way here in Hawaii?

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Spacee                            ~     I'm conducting a search for a
dlm@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu        ~     planet made of chocolate.
(astronomer in lace)              ~     Funding is hard to come by... 
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: mwilson@orl.mmc.com (Mark Wilson)
Subject: Re: Jesus vs. Scouts Final Chapter!
Reply-To: mwilson@orl.mmc.com
Organization: Martin Marietta Orlando
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 19:46:33 GMT

In article 1@fnusgd.fnal.gov, stolz@fnusgd.fnal.gov () writes:
>As for songs, there is a standard Cub Song book
>available (hopefully) wherever you buy you Scout uniforms.  Some of my favorites
>are - Bingo, Do Your Ears Hang Low, and (probably not the title) He Had 10,000
>Men.

It's called "The Grand Old Duke Of York". I have run across a new set of words
for this song. The boys seem to prefer this version.

    Good Old Captain Kirk

Good old Captain Kirk               (seated)
He had four hundred men
He beamed them up to the Enterprise (stand up)
And he beamed them down again       (sit down)

When you're up, you're up           (stand up)
And when you're down, you're down   (sit down)
And when you're only half way up    (stand half way up)
You're nowhere to be found          (search with hand to forehead)

KISMIF
Mark Wilson
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Wilson                              Martin Marietta E,I & M Group
mwilson@orl.mmc.com                      Mail Point 170
Phone: (407)356-6386                     P.O. Box 555837
Fax:   (407)436-5482                     Orlando, FL, 32855-5837
My opinions are my opinions, Martin Marietta can speak for itself.
From: mwilson@orl.mmc.com (Mark Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Citizenship for Scoutmasters
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:16:16 GMT
Reply-To: mwilson@orl.mmc.com
Organization: Martin Marietta Orlando

In article 16149@leland.Stanford.EDU, sorcerer@leland.stanford.edu (Erik Peterson) writes:
>Recently the old scoutmaster for my old troop passed away, and a seach was done  
>for a new scoutmaster to lead the troop.  One very, very qualified Assistant  
>Scoutmaster was found who had lots of experience in scouting and enthusiasm but  
>he was turned down by our local group because he was not an American citizen.  
>Instead the troop now has a person with little experience, seems to care more  
>about the American Legion than scouts, and because of him the troop is down to  
>15 kids (compared to about 60 when I was there 4 years ago) and he disbanned  
>our local chapter of the Order of the Arrow.

No Scoutmaster can disband an OA chapter. Only the Lodge Executive Board with the
agreement of the Keeper of the Fire (aka Council Exec) can do that.

>When I heard this while I was home this summer I thought it was ridicoulous.   
>Scouting is scouting no matter what country it is in.
>
>Does such a regulation exist?

Yes it does. Look in the adult application. All registered BSA leaders must be US 
citizens.

>If so why?

It is written in the national charter that way.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Wilson                              Martin Marietta E,I & M Group
mwilson@orl.mmc.com                      Mail Point 170
Phone: (407)356-6386                     P.O. Box 555837
Fax:   (407)436-5482                     Orlando, FL, 32855-5837
My opinions are my opinions, Martin Marietta can speak for itself.
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:3507 rec.radio.amateur.misc:17011
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Subject: Does his leadership still count?
Organization: Summit NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 17:09:18 GMT

Here's a BSA advancement question.  There has been a difference of
opinion over it among typical members of Boards of Review-

  A boy who advanced to First Class while in the 6th grade served as
  a Den Chief while in the 7th grade.  At the time, the Scoutmaster
  determined that his work was satisfactory and that he did meet
  the leadership requirement for Star;  the Advancement Chairman
  at the time (me) was also satisfied that he met the requirement,
  so it was recorded on his advancement record.

  He never completed the other requirements for Star (primarily
  merit bades and service project) and dropped out of the Troop
  after the 7th grade.  He has just rejoined (10th grade) and
  because we have "High Adventure" activities for Star and above,
  he wanted to know what it would take for him to advance (and he
  specifically mentioned that he thought the leadership requirement
  was already met).

Would you count the leadership, or would you make him hold another
job for 4 months?  I'm prepared to accept it, but there have been some
questions being raised; the issues are-

     1.	He was not registered as a Scout for 2 years, so what does
	carry forward over non-continuous membership.  Clearly,
	things that are awarded, like merit badges and rank, are
	his, but what about things that are subjective judgments?

     2.	In case any members of the BofR feel that they need to verify
	what the boy has done, there is no longer any record, except
	that 2.5 years ago, the Scoutmaster at the time said he
	did, and there were no objections at the time.  (Also, the
	rule under which our BofR operates is that the boy is
	presumed to have met the requirements unless the BofR can
	prove differently; a maybe/maybe-not or a "We don't know"
	conclusion means the boy passes, which in this case means
	that unless anybody knows explicitely why his work as a
	Den Chief wasn't up to our standards, we have to accept
	it.)
-- 
Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: mpb@troy.uucp (22161-bunz)
Subject: Re: Knots
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 17:12:25 GMT

In article <27906.719025386@bonnie.ics.uci.edu>, jlinder@Bonnie.ICS.UCI.EDU (Darrow Linder) writes:
> I myself wear the eagle knot and must say that knots (while I was an up
> an coming Eagle) seemed to be the most boring thing to do.  Well, my
> troop made a game out of it.  Between relays and Camporee competition,
> our troop did rather well (winning the Camporee 1 time and placing top three
> four years in a row).  As for spending time with the boys, well, that was
> taken care of too.  Believe me, when your a little Tenderfoot scout, winning
> a Camporee as a result of the knots and such you practiced so many times
> on and getting praise from adult leaders (not to mention a hefty steak
> dinner) made it all worth the while.  Still to this day, I use many of
> these knots nearly everyday.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Darrow Linder   jlinder@Bonnie.ics.uci.edu     University of California Irvine
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 

OPPS,  I think the word KNOTS just took on a new meaning.  We weren't
discuss tieing knots, but earning knot awards.

Marc
From: michaelb@cse.fau.edu (Michael Rogero Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Can the Knot be carried forward to Boy Scouts(was Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?)
Date: 9 Oct 92 15:50:21 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton, FL, USA

In article <1992Oct5.134012.15590@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> mpb@troy.uucp (22161-bunz) writes:
>If a boy earns his God and Me emblem (Protastant) and knot, can he continue
>to wear the knot when he goes into boy scouts?
>
>I'd assume so, since it is NOT a Cub Scout award, and thus would not
>violate the fact that the only patch that can be carried forward is the
>Arrow of Light.
>
>But I'd like to find out for sure.
>
Well, this was discussed at lengths on scouts-l, but I don't think is was
covered here.

To answer your question, YES he can wear the knot on the Boy Scout uniform.
In fact he should also wear the Cub Scout knot device to indicate the award
was earned as a Cub Scout.  Check out the _Insignia Control Guide_ which is
very clear on this, as well as the knot devices for the religious youth award.

Will most knots are for adults (either because they are adult training/service
awards or representation of awards earns as a youth (Eagle, Arrow of Light),
there are some that can be worn by a youth.  Basically they are-

   Cub Scout/Webelos Scout - Religious Youth knot may be worn on their uniform.

   Boy Scout- Can wear the Religious Youth knot (plus knot devices as needed)
              Also-  Hornaday Knot (a recently added knot)
                     the 3 lifesaving award knots
                     OA Distinquished Service award (rare, but possible)
                     Quartermaster Award or Explorer Achievement award
                        (if a scout earns these will still a youth {ie <18 yrs}
                            why shouldn't he wear them?)

Hope this helps.

-- 
<<                                                               >>
<< Michael R. Brown    CS Graduate Student-Florida Atlantic Univ >>
<< Internet: michaelb@sol.cse.fau.edu                            >>
<< BitNet: m_brown@fauvax                                        >>
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Subject: Re: Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, and United Way
Organization: Summit NJ
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 18:43:04 GMT

>Each local United Way organzation determines how much to contribute to
>each organization. The local group here uses presentations by the various 
>groups to decide. If a group does a really good job of justifying 
>support, they may get a multiple year allotment, which means that they 
>don't have to present during that time and will still receive funding.
>
>Personally I contribute directly to the charities that I want to support
>and avoid the UW overhead.

If I remember correctly from some UW propaganda (disguised as
"literature") many years ago, I believe that one of the statements
UW made to justify its existence (and thus the jobs our money
to "charity" creates) was that the purpose of the United Way was
to eliminate the need for its receipients to run their own separate
fundraising campaigns (along with some vague promises that because
of UW, we are thus spared from multiple solicitations from every
local organization).

And from what I've been told regarding our local Boy Scout Council,
at one time, this was true.  But as we are all now being asked to
participate in some sort of SME program, one of the things that was
said was that UW money now provides barely 25% of our Council's
budget, where in the past it provided over 75%.

I don't know whether it's because the pie is being cut into thinner
and thinner slices, which would mean that UW itself is not doing its
job correctly, or whether it's the receipient agencies themselves
who are merely looking at UW as ONE source of funds instead of as THE
source of funds.
-- 
Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo)
Subject: Apology
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 01:20:09 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

 I find myself faced with a task set before me as I walk through this
shadowed world.  I have offended a brother of mine and I wish sincerelyt
and completely to apologise and offer myself up for his forgiveness
for my transgresion onto his beliefs and person.  Stan, I am sorry for
any harm which I may have done to you unwittingly in my post replying
to Donalds' comments (also to you). I apologising for not clearly stating
my intentions and not limiting mine own comments to the issue at hand. 
I added to the shadows cast by the darkness, when my singular goal 
has been to spread the light.  In this I have failed this time, and I
shall strive to not fall again.  But I shall, for I am only human.  
Ruled by emotion and thoughts, I shall surely misstep, as I did
today, and I ask for all your forgiveness and hope that in my next 
misstep I may count on all of you to help me and guide me back to 
my purpose.  to Spread the Light.


If any of you thought this insincere, you don;t know me well.  I do 
apologise Stan, I'm sorry to have hurt and offended you.  I extend
my hand and ask for forgiveness.  

Dominick V. Zurlo
in humility.

Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo)
Subject: Re: Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, and United Way
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 92 21:16:53 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Oct7.183753.8333@news.Hawaii.Edu> dlm@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Deborah Maraziti (aka Spacee)) writes:
>Aloha Girl Scout Leaders--
>
>	A strange point was brought up at our Service Unit meeting last
>evening.  A leader claimed that United Way does not give GSUSA as much as
>the Boy Scouts because "...the Girl Scouts can make their own money selling
>cookies."  She continued to say that if troops earned 50 cents per box
>rather than the 40 cents we now retain, United Way would probably give
>more to the Girl Scout Councils themselves (?????).  The whole issue
>confused me.  Does anyone know how United Way funds us?  Is this a
>national issue or perhaps something particular to the Aloha United
>Way here in Hawaii?
 Well,
I'm not a GS Leader, but I have been investigating the funding process
for the UW for a while now, and each individual UW funds the local 
councils and organizations, so it may just be locally that the BSA gets 
more funding than the GS.  But the comment about cookies is totally 
ludicrous!  We used to sell Tom Watt kits, and then other similar sales
kits with christmas toys/goods in them and made more money doing that then
the various GS troops in the area made in cookies.  But hey, who am I to
try and not be sexist! (Which it seems that statement really is just an
excues to hide behind.)  Check with the local UW chapter and your GS Council,
as the UW will fund hte COuncil directly.  I'd be curios to find out
if the UW funds the BSA more on a national average though,  but we'd 
probably need to find out through the UW.  Any other ideas???
>
Dominick V. Zurlo
Eagle Scout '87
blacklisted '88
From: mwilson@orl.mmc.com (Mark Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: New Den leader (was Jesus vs. Scouts Final
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:10:38 GMT
Reply-To: mwilson@orl.mmc.com
Organization: Martin Marietta Orlando

In article 13697@pogo.wv.tek.com, rickc@pogo.wv.tek.com (Rick Clements) writes:
>I think Oct's theme is fire saftey.  (The Webelos don't use those themes, so
>I'm not sure.)  You can schedule a trip to the local fire station.  (You will
>need a trip permit unless the parents drop the scouts off at the station.)

Sorry. This is a misconception that can cause real problems. You must have a tour
permit any time you hold a Scouting activity at a time or place other than your
regular meeting time and place. It doesn't matter how the boys get there. If you
fail to do so you will not be covered for liability and your unit's supplemental
accident insurance will not be in effect.

What about changing meeting places or times? If it is a permanent or semi-permanent
change (a few weeks) notify the Unit leader and the change will be recorded in the
Unit record book and official. If it is a one time deal then fill out a tour permit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Wilson                              Martin Marietta E,I & M Group
mwilson@orl.mmc.com                      Mail Point 170
Phone: (407)356-6386                     P.O. Box 555837
Fax:   (407)436-5482                     Orlando, FL, 32855-5837
My opinions are my opinions, Martin Marietta can speak for itself.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: dfh@sumac14.cray.com (Don Hanenberger)
Subject: Help - JOTA - Prescott, Az.
Originator: dfh@sumac14
Keywords: JOTA
Reply-To: dfh@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc., Eagan, MN
Distribution: usa
Date: 14 Oct 92 08:04:30 CDT


If you are not in Prescott, Az. please hit delete now -----------------

I am a Webelos patrol leader and a ham.  I will have the members of my
patrol active in JOTA on Sunday of this weekend.  One of the members
wanted to be active, but will be in Prescott, Az. over the weekend.

I apologize for the short fuse request, but is there an amateur in
Prescott, Az. who will have a station on the air for the Scouts' Jamboree
on the Air and would be willing to have a guest Scout in your shack?

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

73,

Don Hanenberger
WA0RUF
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Hanenberger
Cray Research, Inc.                  My comments, not my company's.
Multiprocessing Software Section     
655F Lone Oak Drive                  ARPA: dfh@cray.com
Eagan, MN 55121                      UUCP: uunet!cray!dfh
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cbt@cam-orl.co.uk (Chris B Turner)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Cub Scout Leaders
Date: 13 Oct 92 10:09:26 GMT
Organization: Olivetti Research Ltd

In article <13712@pogo.wv.tek.com> rickc@pogo.wv.tek.com (Rick Clements) writes:
>
>In article <1992Oct6.151807.22715@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> mpb@troy.uucp (22161-bunz) writes:
>We tell everyone to come to our back to school night.  Some parent usually
>asks, "where are the leaders?"  [I wish we had to plant someone to ask that
>question.]  We then tell them to look around.  Last year, one parent left mad
>because we asked him to help with his son's den.  Fortunately this doesn't
>happen often.
>>The first problem needs to be addressed by making it clear to parents
>>that they HAVE to be involved, one way or another.  Either they will 
>>have a line job (e.g., Den Leader), or they will have to be involved
>>in helping with a special event (e.g., B&G committee, or Pinewood Derby).

In my experience, although parent volunteers are most welcome and
provide an excellent source of leaders, drivers, catering staff etc
they tend to be the very people who have the most to do in terms of
home, bringing up a family, career and so on. Often they really don't
have the time.

I try to approach the two age groups above and below parents ie young
men and women who want to get involved and elder people who've seen
their own kids grow up and want to help our movement (while they wait
for grandchildren?). This is a better source of leaders with more time
and commitment and it works well for me. But of course you don't find
these people under a stone at your parents meeting.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Turner cbt@cam-orl.co.uk
Olivetti Research Laboratory        If it doesn't smell it isn't multimedia!
Cambridge. England
From: mfd@aber.ac.uk (Margaret Frances Disbury)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Jesus vs. Scouts Final Chapter!
Summary: Attaboy, Todd !!
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:02:52 GMT
Followup-To: rec.scouting
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

In article <1992Oct6.131650.6380@infonode.ingr.com> stevenst@iaserv.b1.ingr.com (Todd Stevens) writes:
>I have appreciated all comments in this thread and feel that I can now
>reconcile with my Lord on this one.  [...]  since Scouting has so much to
>offer my son [...]

> As a Christian, I
>must [...]  teach those who are ready to hear his message.  But 
>these activities must be conducted entirely outside of any "scout" setting
>so as not to be construed as any teaching or indoctrination of the BSA.
>
>How does that sound, guys?   

	Fine, fine
>
>BTW, I have now been "promoted" to den leader as everyone else has backed
>out!  HELP!!!   [....]

	in at the deep end,  Best wishes for successful swimming !

>
>Todd Stevens
>stevenst@iaserv.b1.ingr.com

  From a completely different thread,  it's all infinite diversity in
  infinite combination.  Live long and prosper in Scouting.

Fran
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: wlieftin@cs.vu.nl (Liefting W)
Subject: Re: Campfire Stories
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 09:27:44 GMT

Hello all you out there.

If you need some good campfire stories, I would warmly recommend
'The best of Roald Dahl', a collection of his best stories, all`
very suitable for a campfire.

I know it is published in Dutch and English, and I could find
the publisher, ISBN-number and so on if you like.

Yours in campfires,

Wouter Liefting