From: mdc@crash.cts.com (Milo D. Cooper)
Subject: Re: Your own words, of course != bigot
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Distribution: usa, world
Date: 07 Jan 93 20:25:55 PST

In article <1i38ivINNrgp@network.ucsd.edu> triley@weber.ucsd.edu (Tristan Riley) writes:
~In article <1993Jan01.180401.23989@crash> mdc@crash.cts.com (Milo D. Cooper) writes:
~>
~>	On the contrary, Mr. McAngus, I can safely point out that the
~>abolition of slavery was a good thing, especially since I'm a black male.
~>Only a political anarchist would dare declare that ethics and morals are
~>beyond judgment.  Please support this assertion of your's with a lucid and
~>obvious example or two, or better yet, prove my submission that slavery
~>is immoral false.
~McAngus' point (as i understand it) was not that
~morals are "beyond judgement" 
~but that there is no transcendental standard upon which to erect
~them (unless you're the kind of neo-fascist christian who thinks
~you've got the answers for everybody and you'd like to tell every
~other culture in the world which happens to adhere to different
~definitions of morality that they're WRONG and better change their
~ways or go to hell--or better yet we'll come over with our little
~missionaries and whip ol' christ into you).  

	As can be read in later articles, this was not, in fact,
McAngus' point.  What is this tripe about there being no evident
basis for the discerning of what is and what is not moral?  How
many of us, including criminals themselves, believe that theft is
ethical?  Murder?  Rape?  Before the British invasion of India,
Indian women used to commit suicide upon the deaths of their hus-
bands under the belief that life without one's male mate was not
worth continuing.  Sounds pretty immoral to me, unless your value
of human life in general is inferior to my own.

~				              morality is culturally
~relative and historically specific--this is why the same kind of
~morons citing r. limburger now re: the moral incorrectness of
~homosexuality were 150 years ago whipping your ancestors and 
~citing god's eternal system of morality as justification for
~"keeping the darkies in their place."  the simple fact is that 
~slavery was quite moral in the minds of lots of slave owners--you 
~are indulging in a quite a bit of egocentric (not to mention
~feeble) argumentation to 
~imply that your self-interest as "a black male" creates moral ground
~for one action while the self-interest of gays and lesbians who are
~interested in the same freedom from persecution cannot do likewise
~because you have decided their morality is faulty.  

	All the more support for my argument that what a society per-
ceives as moral does not make it so.  Slavery was ultimately eradi-
cated because it is highly unethical.  Morality is about as relative
as the human race's perception of the color of a clear night sky.  Mor-
ality is not subject to historical or cultural beliefs.  Morality exists
in itself and it is up to us to discover that which is moral and that
which is not, not the converse.  Only _interpretation_ of morality is
subjective.  The truth fills my head, the truth fills my head.  America
is the most stark representation of this fact.  Here we have amassed
far more cultures than any other in recorded history, and yet we can all
exist under the finest grasp of morality yet achieved.  That grasp is
not ideal, but it is certainly more solid than any in the Middle East,
where people of different racial backgrounds harbor visceral hatred
toward one another for no substantiated reason.  My best friend is Is-
raeli.  He can't stand Arabs.  He has no good reason for his spite.
But he damn sure prefers America to Israel.

~someone else writes:
~
~Prove to me that butt fucking is a legitimate expression of
~>by vociferous groups or not.
~
~to whom i would answer:  prove to me that vagina fucking is a
~legitimate expression of love between a man and a woman.
~
~Milo continues:
~
~ legitimacy and morality are
~>not always subject to mutually synonymous definitions.  To cry out
~>in disgust using foul language is a legitimate display of anger, but
~>to do so before children is immoral.
~>
~what are you talking about here?  immoral TO YOU.  i hate to break
~the news to you, but there is no schematic grid all humans are born
~with in their brains which tell them "cursing in front of the kids
~is immoral." 
~
~alexander

	You are more and more revealing your misunderstanding of
human nature.  Like I said, the definition of morality is acquired,
not inborn.  It is our responsibility to expose that which is immoral.
Morality does NOT conform to culture or history.  If you believe
otherwise, then you cannot believe that all people deserve to be
treated equally, because you must condone any heinous act thought
to be morally acceptable, for you believe there is no universal and
timeless method of application of ethics.  Just because we humans
possess no innate knowledge of an idea does not allow our everlasting
ignorance of it, and I think you know that.  We have found that to
steal is immoral.  We have found that to rape is immoral.  We have
found that to judge someone solely by his skin hue is immoral.  Yet
we were born realizing none of these things.  Foul language is quite
often a stimulant of negative human reaction; this is because we know
that people utter four-letter words usually when they are experiencing
negative emotions, emotions so negative that they impair one's abili-
ty to maintain self-control and/or to express oneself clearly.  This
produces a necessary level of fear, however significant or insignifi-
cant, in anyone within earshot.  If I am upset, then I would want my
children to know exactly with whom and why I am upset, rather than
simply spouting of a "F*CK" or two and thereby rousing their trepidity.
Also, I would want them to do the same.  I can promote this by NOT
utilizing foul language.  Would you hire a babysitter with a free tongue,
or one that exercised restraint in her vocal expression?

						 _m d c_
			  Milo D. Cooper  '92   | 1992  |  mdc@crash.cts.com
						`-------'
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