From: han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek
Subject: These Are Irrefutable And Irrevocable Facts, 'Milson.'
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:34:00 GMT


<1992Apr14.211045.17362@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>
milson@gauss.math.mcgill.ca (Rob Milson)

>I am continuing in my efforts to review the sources used by Mutlu in
>his postings to the net.  

I certainly hope so.

>Unfortunately, the two other books he cites:
>"World Alive, A Personal Story" by Robert Dunn and "Men are Like That"
>by Leonard Ramsden Hartill, are not in the McGill or the U. de
>Montreal libraries.  

I fail to understand. Stolen by the ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorists?          

>However, I was able to track down the New
>Republic review of "Men are Like That"; it is used by Mutlu to
>substantiate the credibility of Hartill's book.  I will reproduce this
>New Republic article below and hopefully, thereby give a clearer
>indication of what the book is about.
>From the looks of the review article it is a book worthy of being
>read.  

Precisely.

>I, for one, will try to obtain and read it.

It is on my desk.

>Mr. Mutlu, I hope that you do not continue to insult me publicly.

Again, it may be painful to be criticized, but if the criticism is
valid, the obligation is on those who receive it to surmount the
pain and change their behavior. You cannot argue effectively that
a just criticism shouldn't be made because it will antagonize the
person criticized. You were caught lying and still have not corrected 
yourself. Perhaps, it is too much to hope that you will open your
blackened mind to Turkish people's sufferings, but it is worth
pointing out. Your statements were not correct at all. These are
irrefutable and irrevocable facts about the genocide of 2.5
million Turks by the Armenians between 1914 and 1920.

Source: "Adventures in the Near East, 1918-1922" by A. Rawlinson,
Jonathan Cape, 30 Bedford Square, London, 1934 (First published 1923) 
(287 pages).

p. 184 (second paragraph)

 "I had received further very definite information of horrors that
  had been committed by the Armenian soldiery in Kars Plain, and as 
  I had been able to judge of their want of discipline by their treatment 
  of my own detached parties, I had wired to Tiflis from Zivin that
  'in the interests of humanity the Armenians should not be left in   
  independent command of the Moslem population, as, their troops being
  without discipline and not under effective control, atrocities were
  constantly being committed, for which we should with justice 
  eventually be held to be morally responsible'."

>After all, I am merely reproducing one of your own sources.  I will
>refrain from editorial comments or from comments about the relevance
>of the article to your activities.  

For whatever reason, you don't seem to understand that you would be 
better off leaving certain topics alone, if you don't want facts to 
blow up in your face. Simply state the facts. Why don't you let the 
readers decide for themselves the meaning of my postings, rather than 
give us your usual worthless interpretation? Fair enough?

Source: "U.S. Library of Congress:" 'Bristol Papers' - General Correspondence
Container #34.

 "While the Dashnaks were in power they did everything in the world to keep the
  pot boiling by attacking Kurds, Turks and Tartars; by committing outrages
  against the Moslems; by massacring the Moslems; and robbing and destroying
  their homes;....During the last two years the Armenians in Russian Caucasus
  have shown no ability to govern themselves and especially no ability to 
  govern or handle other races under their power."

Source: John Dewey, "The Turkish Tragedy", The New Republic, Volume 40, 
        November 12, 1928, pp. 268-269.

"that they [Armenians] boasted of having raised an army of one hundred 
 and fifty thousand men to fight a civil war, and that they burned at 
 least a hundred Turkish villages and exterminated their population."

>What can be the harm in that?

That's the whole point you invariable miss. I just love it.
I can add my voice to this and say I heartily agree.

>Men Are Like That, by Leonard Ramsden Hartill.  Indianapolis: The
>Bobbs-Merrill Company.  305 pages. $3.

>The Armenian learned to the end the lesson of hate against the
>oppressors of his people, but he does not rail against them.  he says,
>in Mr. Hartill's words: "Russian troops did terrible things in the
>Turkish villages.  The world knows the fate of the Armenians in
>Turkey.  We Armenians did not spare the Tartars.  It is all a circle
>of hatred and revenge, an endless chain plunging ever farther into the
>depths and bringing forth the worst there is in human nature.  If
>persisted in, the slaughtering of prisoners, the looting, and the rape
>and massacre of the helpless become commonplace actions expected and
>accepted as a matter of course.  Men are like that.  We Armenians,
>brutalized by the horrors we had endured and inflicted in our war with
>the Turks, were to be no more merciful toward one another in the civil
>war that was soon to come."

Ditto.

By Rachel A. Bortnick 

"A more appropriate analogy with the Jewish Holocaust might be the
 systematic extermination of the entire Muslim population of the 
 independent republic of Armenia (which lasted from 1918 to 1921),
 which consisted of at least 30-40 percent of the population of that
 republic. The memoirs of an Armenian army officer who participated 
 in and eye-witnessed these atrocities was published in the U.S. in
 1926 with the title 'Men Are Like That.' Other references abound."

"A vivid and a fascinating book."

+ Bookm 67:xxxvi My '28 300w

"He is telling the story of another, he has told it in such a 
 convincing manner that it reads more as the direct narrative
 of Ohanus Appressian than a second-handed account. The book 
 abounds with thrilling incidents."
    
+ Boston Transcript p4 Ap 7 '28 150w

  Christian Century 45:858 J1 5 '28 80w

  Cleveland Open Shelf p63 My '28

Reviewed by Lyman Bryson
	New Repub 56:26 Ag 22 '28 430w

"It is a straightforward, live, human document and shows men as they
 are - good, bad, worse or indifferent. Refreshing is the artlessness
 with which these pages disengage the fact that the Armenians, over 
 whom so many tears have been shed, are as murderously that-ish as
 Turk or Tartar; and as a picture at first hand of the efficacy of
 war and race hatred as producers of bestiality and ruin..."

 + N.Y. Evening Post p12 F 11 '28 220w

"He tells his story simply and directly..."

 + N.Y. Times p3 Ji 1 '28 430w

"It abounds with cruelty, bloodshed, and abject misery..."

 + Outlook 148:434 Mr 14 '28 250w

"...Appressian telling his own story in his words..."

 + Sat R of Lit 4:655 Mr 3 '28 300w

"The story is well told, and gives remarkable insight into the manners
 and life of an interesting people of Caucasus. It holds the scales
 evenly in its judgements, is easy reading, and mingles with sorrow
 for these people, excellent comprehension of all sides of the problem 
 that the Armenians so long have created for other nations of the world."

 + Springf'd Republican p10 Ap 11 '28 650w 


Hasan B-) Mutlu

                     'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them 
                      and in whatever circumstances you find them. 
                      Turkish children also should be killed as 
                      they form a danger to the Armenian nation.' 
                                     (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)