HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sokay@cyclone.mitre.org (Stephen J. Okay)
Subject: Re: Angst music
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 13:03:17 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.222251.29136@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> rperkins@astro.as.arizona.edu (Rachel J. Perkins) writes:
>In article <BvpoKG.3xB@news.larc.nasa.gov> mark@uab15.larc.nasa.gov (Mark Flanagan) writes:
>>In article <BvpF4n.Bzq@acsu.buffalo.edu> gmkoenig@acsu.buffalo.edu (Gerson V Koenig) writes:
>>>At any rate, can we hear some reccomendations on angst-music? Do you folx find 
>>>you listen to this sort of thing to relieve a bad mood or wallow in it?
>>
>>early Marillion.  wallow.
>>
>
>tori amos (little earthquakes), pearl jam, peter gabriel, kate bush, pink
>floyd, elgar, mahler, etc, etc...

The Smiths(Esp. the Louder than Bombs collection), Nine Inch Nails:Pretty Hate
Machine(The new one is rather lame), Leonard Cohen, Violent Femmes, Bauhaus,
Magnetic Fields, Our American Cousins, Wimp Factor 14 and pretty much the 
rest of the One Last Kiss compilation....

There's lots of others, but they've already been mentioned...

---Steve
-- 
Stephen Okay  sokay@mitre.org
"You see, I'm kind of this control freak who likes to create his own
personal hells before the real one can get to him. I like to beat hell
to hell so to speak".--Spalding Gray "Monster in a box"
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Subject: Re: I quit
From: emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp)
Date: 7 Oct 92 20:50:45 -0600

In article <BvptMB.Lt4@acsu.buffalo.edu>  writes:
>
>	welcome to the club, cochise.
>
>
>-- 
>   /I\          Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.
>  /(*)\         hennessy@acsu.buffalo.edu                 
> /IIIII\        "Leave EVERYTHING to ME!" - Powdered Toast Man       
>/IIIIIII\       Happiness is a warm gun.
			^ Wouldn't that wreck your microwave?
Newsgroups: alt.angst
From: duke@portal.paperboy.osf.org (Duke Robillard)
Subject: Re: Angst music
Organization: /u1/duke/.organization
	<1992Oct15.002759.5956@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
	<1992Oct15.164552.390@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:45:49

In article <1992Oct15.164552.390@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> rperkins@astro.as.arizona.edu (Rachel J. Perkins) writes:

   sorry, i just don't find the cure's lyrics to be believable. they seem too
   contrived to be real angst. but then, i guess most other groups are that way
   too. 

That new Peter Gabriel album has one song about a guy who snaps
and kidnaps his ex-girlfriend and forces her to drive somewhere.
I've yet to be able to hear it to the end--I've only heard it 
playing in stores and such.  It's sung in first person, like all 
great songs about horrible people.  It sounds realistic.

I think it fits well with the discussion about urge to do horrible
things that raged here a couple of weeks ago


--
Duke "Art comes from Suffering" Robillard, DoD #0130, duke@osf.org
From: ABienek@acorn.co.uk (Alex Bienek)
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Subject: Those of us left behind...
Date: 9 Oct 92 14:22:19 GMT
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, England


In a previous article, kovarik@UTKUX1.UTK.EDU (StMeechTheThwacked) says:
>
>In 2 hours 45 minutes I am on the way! (to Austin) Yeeeehaw!!! Bearing
>a litre of Rebel Yell! And mah baseball cap!
>                                                Meech

Those of us left behind, unable to go to Austin TX,
due to the extreme distance and extreme cost, are
left to reflect on just how quickly the angst and
anguish of our most despairing posters evaporates
almost instantaneously when the opportunity to 
attend a party arises.

This must cause us to question the authenticity of
the afore mentioned angst and lead us to the
conclusion that what we have been witnessing is not
true 'abyss awareness angst' but just the day to day
despair of not belonging to a social group that
throws regular parties. (See previous posts on
inverted envy).

ObAngst: Do I need a smiley with that ?

Alex.
From: sokay@cyclone.mitre.org (Stephen J. Okay)
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Subject: Re: Peanuts, 10-12-92
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:17:20 GMT
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA

In article <1992Oct15.192640.2497@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> rperkins@astro.as.arizona.edu (Rachel J. Perkins) writes:

>ObAngst: i hate being so worried about what another person thinks of me.

This is *true* angst. Esp. when one REALLY thinks about life and realizes how
much one goes through and does because of what other people would think of you.

---Steve
-- 
Stephen Okay  sokay@mitre.org
"You see, I'm kind of this control freak who likes to create his own
personal hells before the real one can get to him. I like to beat hell
to hell so to speak".--Spalding Gray "Monster in a box"
From: IDJMW@ASUACAD.BITNET
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Subject: Re: Time for a Coup, Everybody!
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:26:55 GMT
 <92286.081311IDJMW@ASUACAD.BITNET>Jo
 <1992Oct12.160741.13361@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>
Organization: Arizona State University

No, Rach, no nuking of Tooo-son. I much prefer it to here, Tempe. And being a
person of slightly demented background who also has been known to go on these
same types of crying episodes for no apparent reason, we probably both deserve
to be at ground zero together. I feel doomed to be one of those crazy old women
living in one of those gigantic but very messy mansions, surrounded by far
too many cats and living alone alone alone. I have a sickening fear at the pit
of my stomach, kind of a numbing dread, that I will never have anyone with
whom to share my life, my thoughts, my emotions, my humble abode. At some point
you either chew off your fingernails, listen to your ulcers bleed, or
embark on an unexplained crying jag of mega proportions.

Case in point (oh no!)..... not too long ago went camping at Sahuaro Lake,
a few hours northeast of Phoenix--with three friends, two male and one female.
One of the males was a friend, one was kinda sorta more than a friend. The one
that was kinda sorta more than a friend chose to spend the night in the tent
with the other woman, just a friend, but it was more an avoidance of me than
a choice of her. And I dealt with that the very same way you dealt with what-
ever feelings you were having in Austin. I started to babble and cry like
an infant... everyone was in their sleeping bags warm and cozy, and I was
outside by the dwindling fire, in the cold, beside the lake, freezing my
butt of, weeping hysterically. At which point I chose to reach for and find
every empty bottle of beer we had consumed and break it loudly and merrily into
 the flames. It was all very strange and weird and depressing. And in the
morning, not only was I still in a blue funk, but I had to clean up all the
glass in the name of ecology and the environment. It was a disaster.

So shoot me now and put me out of my misery.

I may never be able to go camping again. (Certainly not with THAT bunch.)
Newsgroups: alt.angst
From: duke@portal.paperboy.osf.org (Robert Robillard)
Subject: Re: I quit
Organization: /u1/duke/.organization
Date: 7 Oct 92 12:56:07

In article jlewis@astro.as.arizona.edu (Jeff Lewis) writes:

   I guees the time has come for me to face reality, life is
   never going to be what, or how I hoped it would be. 

   So..to all those agents of misfortune out there - fuck you..I am
   going home..I don't want to play anymore...you win...

There is no home to go to, dude.  You're stuck here, cause if
you kill yourself, you might find out the Catholics are right
and you'll rot in Hell for all eternity.




--
Duke Robillard, DoD #0130, duke@osf.org
From: sokay@cyclone.mitre.org (Stephen J. Okay)
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Subject: Re: DAYBREAK!  I...survived!
Date: 16 Oct 92 17:13:52 GMT
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA

In article <81748@ut-emx.uucp> llama@pooh.cc.utexas.edu (sine nomine) writes:
[Angsting over marmosets, will he or won't he will we or won't we...]
>--
>sine/deb
>"sex with you and sometimes food and a movie or a play,
>some sleep, a shower and a shampoo with you is all i really want.
>really." -- king missile

Heheheheh!!...this is just *TRULY* too good to pass up on...esp. since I've
already memorized other songs on the album...
"Betrayal takes two...you did it to me, I did it to you..."--King Missile
					                     "Betrayal takes 2"
"You tore my heart with a pickaxe....yeah you tore my heart out w/ a pickaxe"
		---Same "Pickaxe"

---Steve(professional wet blanket) };)
-- 
Stephen Okay  sokay@mitre.org
"You see, I'm kind of this control freak who likes to create his own
personal hells before the real one can get to him. I like to beat hell
to hell so to speak".--Spalding Gray "Monster in a box"
Newsgroups: alt.angst
From: duke@portal.paperboy.osf.org (Duke Robillard)
Subject: Re: Peanuts, 10-12-92
Organization: /u1/duke/.organization
	<XIBO.92Oct13035247@fido.fido.econ.arizona.edu>
	<DUKE.92Oct13092425@portal.paperboy.osf.org>
	<1992Oct14.142433.21690@bnlux1.bnl.gov>
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:41:16

In article <1992Oct14.142433.21690@bnlux1.bnl.gov> schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder) writes:

   >In general, Winnie the Pooh is much darker children's 
   >literature than Peanuts.

   I hate to admit it, but I found myself staring at "The New Adventures of
   Winnie The Pooh" last Saturday morning...
   It struck me how sad Winnie the Pooh really is.  I mean, after all, it's 
   fairly clear that Pooh is retarded [and] all of his friends are relatively
   intelligent by comparison. 
   ...
   Should we allow kids to watch these kinds of abberant fairy
   stories?

Why not?  What difference will it make?  We're all doomed anyway.  
And if the kids grow up twisted and depressed, well, that's just
more company.

Hey, Rachel--Did you survive your dinner date?  I'm dying to hear
how it went.


--
Duke "Art comes from Suffering" Robillard, DoD #0130, duke@osf.org
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Subject: Re: tiredness.
Date: 13 Oct 92 12:42:25 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

In article <Bw10CG.1Mp@acsu.buffalo.edu> v122jr52@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Thomas H Dunning) writes:

>I'll just have done to myself, what an old girlfriend had done to her ex-Tomcat.

>She said he'd be cleaner, happier, and he'd stay at home nights more!

Hmmmm.  Read in the weekend paper about a man in Perth, Australia, had a BIG 
argument with his SO (can't remember if they were married), and cut off his 
ears, penis, and testicles.  Fearing he'd bleed to death, bunged them in a 
bag with some ice and nipped down the hospital.  Finding himself still very 
much alive, he then refused to let the docs sew it all back......

Dear Aussies: how much of this newspaper report was bullshit?


              Have another day    [Armageddon, the musical] 
  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England   (44|0)61-275-6033  
Newsgroups: alt.angst
From: iam30974@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (129-384320a-b)
Subject: Re: I quit
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 04:03:43 GMT

dfqfrby@shoes.BELL-ATL.COM (Connor) writes:
>In article <1992Oct9.005024.6810@microunity.com>, ericm@microunity.com (Eric Murray) writes:
>> Life is pointless and painful, then you die.  Enjoy it while you can.
>> --
>That's my point I stumbled around for years with the life is pointless
>attitude.  Not because hope says so but because ... well ... I don't
>have to go into that.
[...]
>Love is the answer, you better hope it comes before the summer.


I would say, before winter.  After all, you're getting less sunlight, and
a nice and toasty room on a blanketed night weeps enough angst to tear the
wallpaper off the walls, and scrape the hope from your heart.


[...]
>There is no scale for success, believing in such a thing will be the
>first failure.

The people with a chance to make it rarely know they do.  This might be why
we all read this group.  It may sound like reverse psych. or something,
but if we pretend to have less of a chance (through angst), aren't we _really_
just telling ourselves that we're above this on the inside?

JUST FOR the record, I have less of a chance than all of you. No, Really.

>The guy starving in the gutter may be more at peace. (probably not)

I guess the law says (here at least) that check-out people under 21 can not
sell alcohol to those that are.  Makes sense I guess...

I recall someone at the supermarket wearing a "HI, I'M NEW" or some such badge
turning red, finally asking the customer to run the item over the scanner
themselves.  I was witness to this all.

		please don't ask about relevance.  It's been a long day.

ivan      at      address below................................................
-- 
Plato said it best when he said that his opinions were his alone, and not
necessarily those of the CCSO.   ___________________________________________
__________________________	|Of course, that's why he's where he is,    |
iam30974@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu |	|and I'm where I am... but I agree with him!|
Xref: sparky alt.angst:3984 alt.exploding.kibo:630 alt.imploding.kibo:20
From: klein@frith.egr.msu.edu (Jeffrey Klein)
Newsgroups: alt.angst,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.imploding.kibo
Subject: QUEST * FOR * ANGST
Date: 12 Oct 92 22:39:55 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University College of Stunt Piloting

In article <DUKE.92Oct12125343@portal.paperboy.osf.org> duke@portal.paperboy.osf.org (Duke Robillard) writes:
>
>Angst was a term invented for the sickening fear of existence
>described by Munch, Keirkegard, and Beckett, and this clown
>thinks some cutsey cartoon character is an appropriate
>representative.
>

Well, Duke's words pierced me to my very soul.  How could I have neglected
the MASTERS O'ANGST in my life?  So, I set off upon my very own:


**** QUEST **** FOR **** ANGST ****

   You just can't start out better on the road to Angst than by
talking to Edvard Munch.  So I asked him, "Eddie," I inquired,
"just what is Angst?"
   The Munch-meister turns my way and says, "You know what angst
is?  Angst is knowing that that kid from "Home Alone" is worth
seventeen million dollars and I'm just dead!"  Then his head
exploded.
   The next step on my *QUEST*FOR*ANGST* was to find that sultan
of sickening fear of existence, Keirkegard.  He wasn't home, so
I talked to his next-door neighbor, Kierkegaard.  Ol' K. had this 
to say:
   "Angst?  When you realize that no matter HOW long you live 
that you'll NEVER know what would happen if the Enterprise-D went
up against the Galactica -- THAT's angst, me bucko!"  Then his 
head imploded.
   I only had one door left open to me -- that pillar of Inexorable
Fate, Samuel Beckett.  Yeah, Robin Williams and Steve Martin did
a production of his play WAITING FOR GODOT, but that shouldn't have
any reflection on him.  I finally met up with Slammin' Sammy, but
before I could ask him about the Eternal Question O'Angst, he said:
   "Help me, Al!  I'm stuck in the life of Erik Estrada!"  To which
his holographic companion replied, "Umm, Ziggy says you're here
to..."<hit>*bdoinkdoink*"...live out the rest of your life as Erik
Estrada."
   At that point, I achieved enlightenment.

THE END


-- 
Jeff Klein             | "Happily, Ral doffs his outer clothing for a
Browsing Boy of the LNH|  refreshing dip in one of the dangerous 
klein@frith.egr.msu.edu|  chemical vats." - Ty Templeton
From: machala@spdc.ti.com (Chuck Machala)
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Subject: Re: Relinquishing a Title
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:28:32 GMT
Organization: TI Semiconductor Process and Design Center

kovarik@UTKUX1.UTK.EDU (StMeechTheThwacked) writes:

>In article <1992Oct15.040706.15179@beaver.cs.washington.edu> boesch@cs.washington.edu (Eric Boesch) writes:
>>kovarik@UTKUX1.UTK.EDU (StMeechTheThwacked) writes:
>>>I hereby relinquish the title of Most Hellish Place to Work to
>>>Manhattan, Kansas.  It hurts, I know, but I feel I must say it!!!!
>>
>>Who gave you the title of Most Hellish Place to Work?  A tattoo artist?
>>Your dentist?  A male prostitute?  Do you have any tumors or
>>pus-extruding sores that we don't know about?  Are you completely wet?
>>Is nobody there but molds, parasitic insects, and a wide variety of
>>worms?
>>
>>Did sine invite you just so you could infect everyone else?  No wonder
>>she talks about being dead in three years.  It's cheaper than nuclear
>>weapons, I guess.
>>
>>-- emb.  Conversation starter: "I bet you think you're better than me."

Sadly enough, after talking to nexus it does appear that Manhattan... Kansas
is truly a hellish, hellish place. 13,000 people surrounded by nothing
but wheat (nexus defends,"there are a couple trees"), working on developing
new strains of wheat, eating cracked wheat bread toast and cream of wheat
for breakfast... :)


--

     Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me.

Chuck Machala-Semiconductor Process and Design Center-Texas Instruments/Dallas
From: gmkoenig@acsu.buffalo.edu (Gerson V Koenig)
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Subject: Re: Angst Police, veterans, Dinosaurs
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:16:38 GMT
Organization: UB

Did Xibo ever show us the red haired girl, or was she always "off camera"?

Gerson
gmkoenig@acsu.buffalo.edu
From: bs584@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeanne Leidy)
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Subject: Re: Peter Gabriel's Us
Date: 17 Oct 1992 00:05:43 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Reply-To: bs584@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeanne Leidy)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, llama@pooh.cc.utexas.edu (sine nomine) says:

>for me, it's always been a sort of pride thing; i could maintain that
>i obviously wasn't desperate yet because i wasn't pursuing x, who was
>makinginterested noises. it really sucks when you're hanging out,
>lonely, wanting to be with someone, and you realize that if you just
>weren't so damned picky, if you'd just give up this idea of a grand
>passion, you could be.

Yeah, right.  Like that'll happen.

I know I can't become less picky.  Even if I am totally desperate, 
ready to pass out from lack of human interaction, this does not 
mean I will be willing to be with some quote unquote bozo.
It works the opposite way.  The longer you're alone, the more selective
you get.  At least this is what I have observed in myself and
some friends.  

-Jeanne
From: rperkins@astro.as.arizona.edu (rachel j. perkins)
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Subject: kill me, somebody just kill me.
Date: 16 Oct 92 23:08:54 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ


i am getting a migraine. i am beginning to see the pretty colors that are
surrounding everything in my vision. i can imagine the vice-like skull-
crushing pain that will soon be pouring into my cranium like wet cement.

i am beginning to feel the pulsing in my temples, and my temperature is 
going up. this happens so often on a friday, when i have plans to go out 
and enjoy myself. it's a post-stress thing, as though my mind says: "ok,
now tha you are done with the hellatious week, you have time to have the
headache we've been wanting."

and there's absolutely NOTHING i can do about it. 


bah.

--
		-just give me what for,
	rachel perkins =  rperkins@astro.as.arizona.edu
      "Chastity..the most unnatural of all the sexual perversions...."
					-Aldous Huxley
Newsgroups: alt.angst
From: yunus@loro-next.Stanford.EDU (Jonas Sami Celebiler)
Subject: Re: Quayle angst
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 09:08:40 GMT

In article <22782@galaxy.ucr.edu> judson@watnxt2.ucr.edu (Michael Judson)  
writes:
> What angsts me is how the public treats Quayle.  Sure he may say dumb  
things,
> but what other politicians haven't.  Furthermore, he can't be that much  
of
> an idiot considering he made it to Indiana's Congress and the U.S.  
Congress
> on his own merits, by overwhelming majorities.  Come on, lighten up.


I hope this is a joke.
"He made it into congress so he must be intelligent"="It was written
in the papers so it must be true"="I saw it in the movies, so it must work  
this way"=bullshit.
And what does that have to do with angst?
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Subject: Group gone to hell? (Re: Peanuts, 10-12-92
Date: 13 Oct 92 09:33:54 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

In article <DUKE.92Oct12125343@portal.paperboy.osf.org> duke@portal.paperboy.osf.org (Duke Robillard) writes:
>In an article, klein@frith.egr.msu.edu (Jeffrey Klein) writes:
>   (I nominate CHARLIE BROWN as leader of alt.angst)

>Xibo is right, this group has gone to hell.

Yeah, Nobody even knows which band had a tune with the hook line
"Uh-oh, wrong haircut"
which is of course an extreme angst.
Or maybe they assumed I already knew....well I don't, some fool put it on 
the end of a cassette of other stuff and deliberately didn't tell me who it 
was by.  Bastard.  Only clue: rockabilly(-ish?)


              Have another day    [Armageddon, the musical] 
  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England   (44|0)61-275-6033  
Newsgroups: alt.angst
From: kovarik@UTKUX1.UTK.EDU (StMeechTheThwacked)
Subject: Re: What the Hell is this?
Organization: University of Tennessee Computing Center
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 02:14:09 GMT

In article <machala.719258533@delphi> machala@spdc.ti.com (King Mosher) writes:
>kovarik@UTKUX1.UTK.EDU (StMeechTheThwacked) writes:
>
>>Didn't you undergo a magical transformation in that Land O  Debauchery!!!
>
>Whaddya think, meech?! is this o.k.
>
>                 ooooooooooooooooo
>                o             o   o    
>               o            --     o                                   
>              o             |       o                                  
>             o   o-------->o         o
>             o              \         o   A mosher diagram 
>              o              \        o                                
>               o              o      o                                
>                o                   o
>                 oooooooooooooooooo                               

My first instinct says that this should be treated as a classical mechanics
problem.  Much like billiards.  Quantum moshing, on the other hand.....
tunnelling thru the barriers......  Hmmmm.......  Let me think..... 
						Meech

Newsgroups: alt.angst
From: boesch@cs.washington.edu (Eric Boesch)
Subject: Re: Relinquishing a Title
Organization:  Future Statistics of America
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 04:07:06 GMT

kovarik@UTKUX1.UTK.EDU (StMeechTheThwacked) writes:
>I hereby relinquish the title of Most Hellish Place to Work to
>Manhattan, Kansas.  It hurts, I know, but I feel I must say it!!!!

Who gave you the title of Most Hellish Place to Work?  A tattoo artist?
Your dentist?  A male prostitute?  Do you have any tumors or
pus-extruding sores that we don't know about?  Are you completely wet?
Is nobody there but molds, parasitic insects, and a wide variety of
worms?

Did sine invite you just so you could infect everyone else?  No wonder
she talks about being dead in three years.  It's cheaper than nuclear
weapons, I guess.

-- emb.  Conversation starter: "I bet you think you're better than me."
Newsgroups: alt.angst
From: b645zhy@utarlg.uta.edu (Mark Luckstead)
Subject: Re: Quayle angst
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 23:47:00 GMT

In article <92283.170527IDJMW@ASUACAD.BITNET>, IDJMW@ASUACAD.BITNET writes...
>what does angst have to do with dan quayle? easy answer. saw him live in person
> in phoenix a few weeks ago, and the man is reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaallllly
>scary. 
          [uncritical criticisms deleted]                    there is nobody
>upstairs folks. THAT is angst.
>--------------J----------------
   Bush's selection of Senator Quayle as his running mate so surprised 
the media elite that they made a joke out of it.  They had already warmed 
up ridiculing Vice President Bush.  The scary thing is how effectively 
the media elite have maintained the image of Dan Quayle as a "goof."
But there are lots of knee-jerk liberals about to help.
   Who is at upstairs in Bill Clinton's skull?  I angst that America is 
about to replace a president with too few principles for a man with none.
-- Mark Luckstead = b645zhy@utarlg.uta.edu