HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
X-Envelope-to: cumrec-l@NDSUVM1.BITNET
X-VMS-To: @CUMREC
X-VMS-Cc: PATE
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cumrec-l
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:13:00 EDT
From:         "BILL PATE, ADMIN. SERVICES,
              PATE@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU" <PATE@UNCWIL.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: programmer access

Just a few observations on the reply from Don Watson:

#     I have been surprised reading the replies to your request to
#see how many universities give programming staff access to
#confidential production files. There seems to be some concern about
#protecting the university against the programmer, who signs a form,
#but none about protecting the programmer, who would be subject to
#suspicion if data were altered. I cannot see how an administrative
#department can be responsible for data if another department can
#alter it.

      We treat our systems development staff (a.k.a. the programmers)
as allies of the user department, not adversaries to guard against.

#     The reasons that were given for doing it seem largely
#nonsense. Development and testing can be done against test data
#bases. During parallel running of a new system, the greater access
#that is needed will be supervised carefully by the user department.
#However, once the system is in production, on the rare occasion
#that access to live data is needed, the user department can run the
#reports, run the screens or give a temporary authorization for
#access, and check out afterwards. Unlimited access seems
#irresponsible and unnecessary and certainly doesn't save any money;
#it encourages sloppiness by the programmer and sliding
#specifications by the user (programmers can fix it on the fly).

     Surely all of this can be done, however, is it cost effective in
terms of disc space, man-power requirements, etc? My systems development
people feel a responsibility to their applications and clients, and the
pride to eliminate sloppiness in their work. The user specifications are
going to slip anyway, due to changing management priorities and demands.
Why make the job any more difficult?

#We haven't done it for 20 years.

     You have my admiration.
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Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 10:59:13 -0600
From:         Jack Thornton <Jack_Thornton@EXTERNALAFF.BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject:      CUMREC '93 Update

The following is an excerpt from an article written by Mike Copeland, Business
Editor for the "Waco Tribune-Herald" newspaper of Waco, Texas:

"   *WACO RANKS 18TH IN ATTRACTING OUT-OF-STATERS*
     The allure of Paseo del Rio and the Alamo has not faded.
     Once again, San Antonio is the top tourist destination in the state,
following Dallas, Austin and Houston, according to the Texas Auto Visitor
Survey, which questioned out-of-state visitors from fall 1991 to summer 1992.

     Waco was tied with South Padre Island in 18th place, just ahead of Tyler
and just behind Van Horn.
     The survey showed that 32.4 percent of those visiting from out of state
spent time in San Antonio--3.8 percent spent time in Waco.
     I was surprised that among visitors from other countries, Waco ranked
10th in the survey with 8.4 percent of those visiting the Lone Star State
spending time here.
     By the way, 77 percent of the foreign visitors said they liked the
friendliness of Texans most about their visits."

I hope each of you is planning to be in San Antonio May 9-12, 1993 for CUMREC '
93.  If you are, we can increase that 32.4% a little.  San Antonio is a GREAT
city and your planning committee will give you a conference you will never
forget.  You can search out your own night life on that WONDERFUL river.

Jack Thornton
Co-Chair, CUMREC'93
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cumrec-l
Date:         Sat, 3 Oct 1992 10:10:46 PDT
From:         "Cedric S. Bennett" <Cedric.Bennett@STANFORD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Optical Imaging

REPLY TO 09/08/92 11:41 FROM CUMREC-L@NDSUVM1.BITNET "CUMREC-L Administrative
computer use": Optical Imaging

I meant to try to answer these question sooner, but.............

> Two questions:
>
> 1.  Has anyone done an RFP/RFQ/RFI on something like this?  Would
> you be willing to share it?
>
> 2.  What vendors are out there that you have worked with.  What are
> your experiences?  What should we look out for?

I can't give you much help on #1 (although I can give you an
evaluation matrix that we used for comparing a few vendors to our
requirements -- some of it would not make sense to you, but much
of it might be useful).

We've had very good luck with IBS (a New York company that is now
partnered with IBM).  Their system is fundamentally a server running
under AIX on an RS6000 of any size (depending upon the size of the
application) and PS/2 client stations running Windows (for the image
viewing stations) and DOS for other stations (e.g., scanning,
printing).  The RS6000 uses SyBase for its database.

Aside from just using this system in a couple of different
application areas on campus, we've worked with IBS to (a) develop a
Mac image viewing station and (b) an interface to the mainframe (so
that other applications can request image services - like faxing an
image to someone - directly between the systems).

You can reach IBS (Image Business Systems) at:  417 5th Ave, 5th
Floor, New York, NY 10016.  Their phone number is 212/696-2500.

Ced Bennett
Ced.Bennett@Forsythe.Stanford.edu
415/723-0728

To:  CUMREC-L@NDSUVM1.BITNET
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Acknowledge-To: <BARTLET@CMSUVMA>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cumrec-l
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 08:46:30 CST
From:         BARTLET@CMSUVMA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Alumni packages
              28 Sep 1992 08:38:25 BST from <J.L.Rathbone@GDR.BATH.AC.UK>

We recently acquired Information Associates ADS package.  However,
if I recall the SCT Banner system was ORACLE based.  We did not
have ORACLE so it put this package out of our price range.


Good luck.

<<<<<>>>>><<<<<>>>>><<<<<>>>>><<<<<>>>>><<<<<>>>>><<<<<>>>>><<<<<>>>>><<
< Bonnie Bartlett                       CCCCCC
< Central Missouri State Univ.         C
< Information Services                 C        MM   MM
< Humphreys 218                        C        M M M M
< Warrensburg, MO   64093              CCCCCCC  M  M  M  SSSSSS
<                                               M     M  S
< Applications Coordinator                      M     M  SSSSSS  U   U
< IBM/DOS/VSE                                                 S  U   U
<                                                        SSSSSS  U   U
< Bitnet:  BARTLET@CMSUVMA                                       U   U
< Phone:   816/543-4082                                          UUUUU
< FAX:     816/543-4959
<<<<<>>>>><<<<<>>>>><<<<<>>>>><<<<<>>>>><<<<<>>>>><<<<<>>>>><<<<<>>>>><<
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cumrec-l
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:56:52 GMT
From:         Roy Martin <CCSYS005@CCSUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Don's Maelstrom

I have to admit that I am also a little surprised a how deep the feelings
run on whether to allow programmers unlimited access to production data.
The debate reminds me a little of the debate between the entrepreneurs
and the bean-counters in the business sector.  Early on, there was much
debate about which was more important: the visionary, entrepreneurial
spirited manager, or the manager who constantly watched the bottom line.

Some argued that without the visionary, the business never would have
started in the first place.  He or she is the one to recognize the
opportunity, seize it, and create the business - very ad-hoc, very
dynamic.  Others, though, said that without the bottom line-watcher,
the business would never be in a positive cash flow, and would
experience an early death.

Lately, though, many have decided that, depending upon the individual
environment, and also the life-cycle of the particular business, BOTH
were important.  You need the visionary to get it going, even if it
starts out a little sloppy, and you need the bean-counter to make sure
it survives it's infancy.  As the business progresses and becomes more
mature, watching the bottom line may become the critical element.  But
occasionally even a mature industry can go through a visionary
shake-up.  (Did YOU ever think of using Arm&Hammer baking soda for a
carpet deodorant before the commercials started mentioning it?)

This all applies to control of data in our industry as well.  There are
times when one does need to be a little loose about controls.  Your
life-cycle or particular environment may require it.  Also, there will
come a time when you'll need to pull in the reigns a little on the
programming department.  Both attitudes are appropriate at specific
times.  What may work well for me now, may not work for you, or even
work for me, three years from now.  But if you fixate on one
position or the other, (the extremes), you do so at your own, (or your
organization's), risk.

WELL, BACK TO WORK ....

||-------------------------------|-----------------------------------||
||   Roy Martin                  |  CORPUS CHRISTI STATE UNIVERSITY  ||
||   Programmer/Analyst &        |  6300 OCEAN DRIVE                 ||
||     GOD (Guardian Of Data)    |  CORPUS CHRISTI, TX  78412-5599   ||
||                               |     PHONE: (512) 994-2693         ||
||   CCSYS005@CCSUVM1            |     FAX:   (512) 994-2366         ||
||-------------------------------|-----------------------------------||
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cumrec-l
Date:         Sun, 27 Sep 1992 22:16:45 EDT
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         "Tara S. Singer" <TSSING01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Ticketing System

Doctoral Student
PHONE: (502) 782-6755
TixSales, a PC based package, is available from Center Stage Software.
Runs on an IBM-compatible.  Contact:  Bruce Rowe at 467 Alvardo Street,
Suite 7, Monterey, CA  93490/(408) 649-5561.  University of Alaska
Fairbanks currently has a liscence for their Theatre Department (as do
other institutions).  A demo diskette is available.

Tara Singer
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cumrec-l
Date:         Sat, 3 Oct 1992 11:26:53 CST
From:         demossc@CCMAIL.WIU.BGU.EDU
Subject:      Foundation/Alumni listserv

          A listserv for university fund raising is FUNDLIST@JHUVM

          At the moment it is not a particularly active listserv, but
          I would like to see more discussion and shared ideas on that
          listserv.  With tight budgets, fund raising is an important
          avenue for resources.

          Craig DeMoss
          Western Illinois University
          DEMOSSC@CCMAIL.WIU.BGU.EDU
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Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 10:21:49 -0400
From:         "Mike Dieckmann (216)775-8795" <BMIKE@OCVAXC.CC.OBERLIN.EDU>
Subject:      More on On-line Registration

Thanks very much to those who responded to my earlier query on on-line
registration systems.  I have a couple of further questions for those with
on-line or touch-tone registration.

1.  If you have touch-tone telephone registration, is this your ONLY interface,
    or is this IN ADDITION to a terminal-oriented online registration system?

2.  Is the "telephone" portion of your registration system merely an interface
    to a "normal" (read terminal-oriented) online registration system?  If
    the system was provided by a vendor, who did the programming of the voice
    interface, you or the vendor?  Does ANYONE have a telephone system that is
    completely independent of your "main" computer system (e.g., one that
    initializes its database from your student records system, does
    registration completely independently, and then sends the results back
    to your student records system upon completion)?

3.  Do you still have an "add/drop" period following registration?  If so, is
    it conducted on-line by the students, or by the student visiting the
    registrar?

4.  Does your system provide any "prior to registration" information to help
    speed up the student's actual registration experience?  For example,
    providing information on already-closed courses and the like?

5.  How does a student identify himself/herself to your system?  Have you had
    any problems with this identification method?

6.  How do you handle things like "instructor permission required"?  Do you
    give the instructors numbers to hand out?

7.  If you have tested your system or gauged response to it via a survey,
    what questions resulted in the most beneficial information?


Thank you very much, especially to those who have already been most helpful in
sharing their experiences.

_________________________________________________________________________
Michael Dieckmann
Irvin E. Houck Computing Center     internet: bmike@ocvaxc.cc.oberlin.edu
Oberlin College:                    phone:    (216)  775-8795
Oberlin, OH  44074                  FAX:      (216)  775-8573
                        bitnet: bmike%ocvaxc.cc.oberlin.edu@oberlin.bitnet
_________________________________________________________________________
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cumrec-l
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 09:38:18 EDT
From:         Janet Terry <TERRYJ@VTVM2.BITNET>
Subject:      access

I believe the level of programming support access to production data
corresponds directly to the complexity of the computing environment & structure
at the institution.  Since I don't know the specifics of the environment
at Lakehead University, I cannot comment on the appropriateness of Mr. Watson's
remarks in regard to his environment, but I can state that his concept
would never work here.  He mentions that development and testing can be
done against test data bases, which is very true and we do that here.  We
also work closely with our user departments to test and coordinate activities
on the institutional data.  Our need to access live data is a daily thing,
not a "rare occasion."  He failed to mention the updating of information
such as grades, class schedules, financial aid information, SAT test scores
and other applications too numerous to mention here.   In the Student Systems
area alone we have 3 FTEs devoted to production maintenance of data which
also includes producing reports.  I don't believe the University Registrar,
Admissions or Financial Aid Directors would want to dedicate 3 positions to
that function.

I am not implying that unlimited access should be allowed, however, computing
professionals should be allowed to have the necessary access which is required
by their jobs.  I do not believe that this method has created any irresponsible
behavior or encouraged any sloppiness on the part of the programming staff.

With state guidelines and our own administrative standards and rules, we have
controls and audits governing which individuals may have access to production
data.  I work in a development group and I do not have access to any live
data without getting permission from the student systems group.  This group
is responsible for the reliability of student data and the group works closely
with the University Registrar to assure the integrity of the data.

I can understand why Mr. Watson would question how one department can be
responsible for data when another department can alter it.  At some point,
cooperation, trust and striving for the good of the institution must
occur between the various units of the university.  I've been here for 12.5
years and there has never been an incident of a dp support person altering
data or divulging information from confidential files.

Janet Terry
Sr. Programmer/Analyst
University Systems Analysis & Services
Virginia Tech
From: TSCWHITEHEAD@CC.WEBER.EDU (Clarke Whitehead)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cumrec-l
Subject: Re: Alumni subscriber list
Date: 2 Oct 92 23:22:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: CUMREC-L@VM1.NoDak.EDU
X-VMS-To: IN%"CUMREC-L@VM1.NoDak.EDU"

Ray,

>Help, are there any subscriber list(s) for Foundations, Alumni /
>Development Information Services or Advancement Services?  If
>anyone has a LISTSERV address, please forward it to me.

A good one is FUNDLIST@JHUVM.  It's a list specifically for fund raisers.

	Clarke Whitehead
	Director of Annual Fund/Information Systems
	Weber State University
	TSCWHITEHEAD@CC.WEBER.EDU
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cumrec-l
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 08:28:49 EDT
From:         "Dave Tindall - Seattle Pacific University"
              <d_tindall@LUKE.SPU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: access

Janet Terry writes...

> I believe the level of programming support access to production data
> corresponds directly to the complexity of the computing environment &
 structure
> at the institution.  Since I don't know the specifics of the environment
> at Lakehead University, I cannot comment on the appropriateness of Mr.
 Watson's
> remarks in regard to his environment, but I can state that his concept
> would never work here.  He mentions that development and testing can be
> done against test data bases, which is very true and we do that here.  We
> also work closely with our user departments to test and coordinate activities
> on the institutional data.  Our need to access live data is a daily thing,
> not a "rare occasion."  He failed to mention the updating of information
> such as grades, class schedules, financial aid information, SAT test scores
> and other applications too numerous to mention here.   In the Student Systems
> area alone we have 3 FTEs devoted to production maintenance of data which
> also includes producing reports.  I don't believe the University Registrar,
> Admissions or Financial Aid Directors would want to dedicate 3 positions to
> that function.
>
> I am not implying that unlimited access should be allowed, however, computing
> professionals should be allowed to have the necessary access which is required
> by their jobs.  I do not believe that this method has created any
 irresponsible
> behavior or encouraged any sloppiness on the part of the programming staff.
>
> Janet Terry
> Sr. Programmer/Analyst
> University Systems Analysis & Services
> Virginia Tech

I also concur with Janet about access to production data. We have a small
Information Systems department (10 programmers/analysts) where individuals
are assigned responsibility for certain applications. They have access to
both test and production databases and run queries and reports against
production data on a daily basis -- in a *cooperative/supporting mode* to the
user departments (Registration, Admissions, etc..).

With access goes _responsibility_ and trust to do their jobs. I think the
small risk that goes with granting access is more than justified by the
benefits to the campus departments and the University.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
<   David W. Tindall				SSSS			<
<   Executive Director				S    PPPP		<
<   Seattle Pacific University			SSSS P  P U  U		<
<   Computer & Information Systems		   S PPPP U  U		<
<	INTERNET:  d_tindall@spu.edu		SSSS P	  U  U		<
<	PHONE & VOICE MAIL: (206)281-2239	     P	  U  U		<
<	FAX: (206)281-2239				  UUUU		<
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Concordia University Information Systems, River Forest, Il.
X-VMS-To: IN%"cumrec-l@vm1.nodak.edu"
X-VMS-Cc: WITTE
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Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:09:03 -0500
From:         "Denny Witte, CUIS" <WITTE@CRF.CUIS.EDU>
Subject:      software maintenance agreement costs

I am looking for the "typical" annual software maintenance agreement cost for
administrative applications packages from commercial vendors, expressed as a
percentage of the original package cost.  The support package would probably
include:

	periodic enhanced versions of software
	documentation updates
	telephone support

Please send me your "typical" cost (e.g. 12%, 8%, 15%, 5%, etc.)
Let me know if you would like a compilation of the results via email.
Thanks.

******************************************************************************
* Dennis E. Witte                                        voice: 708-209-3205 *
* Director of Computer Services                          fax:   708-209-3177 *
* Concordia University Information Systems      internet: WITTE@CRF.CUIS.EDU *
******************************************************************************
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X-Acknowledge-To: <MIS0005C@TCUAVM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cumrec-l
Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 13:49:19 CST
From:         Richard Yantis <MIS0005C@TCUAVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Speech Clinic Software

Our Speech Clinic is looking for software to assist them in their
operation.  Their needs are in three areas: tracking student clinic
hours which they must complete to receive their certification;
appointment scheduling for students (therapists), clients, and student
supervisors; and a simple client information and billing system.

Obviously, it would be nice if someone had an integrated package already
running in a similar clinic environment, but we would certainly be
interested in any of these pieces stand-alone.

Any leads would be greatly appreciated.

Richard Yantis
Information Services Dept        Voice: (817) 921-7682
Texas Christian University       Fax:   (817) 921-7110
PO Box 32885                     Internet: yantis@gamma.is.tcu.edu
Fort Worth, Texas 76129          BITNET:   MIS0005C@TCUavm
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cumrec-l
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 10:22:23 +0500
From:         Scott Dittman <sdittman@LIBERTY.UC.WLU.EDU>
Subject:      Fund raising

Sorry, I lost that fund-raising list address.  Could someone please repost
it?  Thanks.

Scott Dittman                    email: sdittman@wlu.edu
University Registrar             talk: (703)463-8455   fax: (703)463-8024
Washington and Lee University    snail mail:  Lexington Virginia 24450
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cumrec-l
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 14:05:52 EDT
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From:         "Dr. John C. Biddle" <JCBIDD01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Jane Ryland's Address

Associate Professor Information Science & Data Processing
PHONE: (502) 588 - 6121
I have it now, thanks.

John
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cumrec-l
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 14:02:31 EDT
From:         Padma Kuppa <PKUPPA@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject:      POS and Accounting Systems

I am looking for information on a POS system that would tie-in with a financial
accounting system. We are an auxiliary service corporation, and are looking to
upgrade our present accounting system, and integrate it with a POS system for
inventory management. We would like to use the POS system in various operations
-- food service operations, snack and concesstion stands, convenience store,
copy center, etc.


Please send information to me at:

E-mail: PKUPPA@CCMAIL.SUNYSB.EDU

Phone(-mail):  (516) 632-6438

Snail-mail: Rm. 282 Student Union Bdg.
            FSA, University at Stony Brook
            Stony Brook, NY  11794-3209


Thank you.

Padma Kuppa
Systems Manager
Faculty Student Association
The University at Stony Brook