HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: allen@golem.ssc.gov (Michael Allen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: more of ...can of worms....
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:51:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: golem.ALLEN.92Aug13155154
	<ALLEN.92Aug13134956@golem.ssc.gov>
	<1992Aug13.195959.17405@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>
Reply-To: allen@ssc.gov
Organization: SSC Laboratory, Dallas, TX

>>>>> On Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:59:59 GMT, arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) said:

In article <1992Aug13.195959.17405@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:

Ken> In article <ALLEN.92Aug13134956@golem.ssc.gov> allen@ssc.gov writes:
[...]
>so angry, then, about the Rabbis trying to protect your Neshama?

Ken> This argument proves too much.  (Apply it to Christian missionaries, for
Ken> instance.

Fair enough.  I don't get angry at Xtian missionaries, I ask for their
sources.  At some point they are forced to admit something like:
1) there are obvously some mistakes on the Written Law
2) the Rabbis got the message wrong at some point
Sound familiar?

The point is: yes, you have to work, and work hard, at learning what
is right; it's important and it takes a lifetime.  In the meantime,
you have to live, so you have to make some pretty quick decisions
about which experts to believe.  I have very strong reasons for
rejecting Yeshu as the Mashiach.  I have very strong reasons for
believing that Orthodox Judaism, in all its manifestations, is the
proper way for a Jew to live their life.  And I no more right to say
"to each his own way" than in spiritual matters than in physical
matters.  Whether someone is poisoning their body with certain drugs
or poisoning their Neshama with treif, we all have a responsibility to
try and do something.  Don't we?
--
===================================================
But those who toiled knew nothing of the dreams of 
        Those Who Planned;                         
And the minds who planned the Tower of Babel       
        Cared nothing for the workers who built it.

	-Metropolis
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: thanks (Re: Jewish friends - help!)
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:14:05 GMT
Organization: liver ---> spleen

In article <85999@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu
(Matthew P Wiener) writes:

>In article <ALLEN.92Aug12112203@golem.ssc.gov>, allen@golem (Michael
Allen) writes:

>>2)  Since the watermelon and knife are cold, and watermelon is not
>>particularly spicy, I don't think this is an issue any way.

>Cold kelim in general are not a problem, but knives are an exception.

Could you elaborate?  Sources?  Whyzatso?
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
		Note new machine name
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: simic@pollux.ccsf.caltech.edu (Petar Simic)
Subject: Re: Irony continues in our history
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 11:06:24 GMT

  	Josip Loncaric writes:

	>>>...Serbia and Montenegro did elect the (renamed)
 	Communists (about 70% of the seats) and neo-fascists (about 24% of
 	the seats)...<<<

	- the truth is, however, that the 24% he mentions are members of the
 following Serbian parties: Democratic party, Serbian Renewal, Yugoslav
 Reformists and UJDI. None of these parties calls themselves "neo-fascist",
 none has in their platform elements of neo-fascisam; and I believe that no one
 in good-faith who has respect for the words, would call them "neo-fascists";
 which, quite sadly, Croats often do. 

 	Petar.
From: millman@ursa.UUCP (Phillip Millman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Kosher Rest. Request for FAQ
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:43:07 GMT
Organization: Bear Stearns, NY
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Hi!  I have started a database with Kosher Restuarants through out
the USA and Canada but I need your help.  I only have FIVE records.

Please send your restuarants in the following format:

NAME      New Boychicks Pizza Parlour   
ADDRESS1  19 W. 45th St                           
ADDRESS2  
CITY      NYC                 
STATE     NY
ZIP       
PHONE     2127195999
FAX       2127192267
HECKSHER  O-U       
TYPE      D
AVG_MEAL   7.5
COMMENT   Pizza with Dairy Side Dishes. CY.                 


Two things to Note:
1) TYPE comes in three types
	D - Dairy
	M - Meat
	N - Nuetral (Parve)
2) In the COMMENT field:
	CY - Cholov Yisrael 
	Look for Glatt in hear also

Any comments are welcome.  PLEASE use millman@bear.com to get to me.

Phillip Millman				millman@bear.com
Bear, Stearns & Co. Inc.		My free opinions on my free time.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: allen@golem.ssc.gov (Michael Allen)
Subject: Re: more of ...can of worms....
Reply-To: allen@ssc.gov
Organization: SSC Laboratory, Dallas, TX
	<1992Aug13.042334.24988@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:49:56 GMT

>>>>> On Thu, 13 Aug 1992 04:23:34 GMT, stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) said:

In article <1992Aug13.042334.24988@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
[...]
Stan> I'll put it very simply.  When the time comes that I will have to
Stan> recite Kaddish, I don't want, or need, any ignoramus even
Stan> tentatively implying that I didn't "properly" fulfil the mitzvah

What you want is one thing, what you need is perhaps something else.
When someone is damaging themselves, even unintentionally, we all have
a responsibility to help them.  Suppose, for example, someone was
doing something you knew was dangerous, but that they didn't believe
was dangerious (such as carrying some highly radioactive material, for
example).  I think you would agree that it is worth being called an
ignoramous and worse to protect them from themselves.  Why do you get
so angry, then, about the Rabbis trying to protect your Neshama?

[...]
Stan> adults, did not consist of at least 10 men.
[...]
Why 10?  Why adults?  Why Jews?  I am not mocking, I just want to know
what are your sources and the line of reasoning that leads to your
belief that Kaddish can only be said in the presence of 10 Jewish adults.
Also, what--in your view--is the mitzvah that is fulfulled by reciting
a few verses of praise for the Almighty in a dead language?  There is
no place that I know in the Written Law where it is commanded to do
such a thing.


Stan> Civil war among us resulted in, or hastened, the destruction of
Stan> the Temple; let's just accept the FACT that no one denomination or
Stan> sect among us has a monopoly on the definition or the right way
Stan> to observe our common religion.
[...]
Actually, it was not civil war, but a rebellion against the Rabbis
that increased the suffering in Jerusalem during the last days of the
Second Temple. (May it be rebuilt soon, in our days.)  The rebels
(Zealots) who burned down the store houses of grain that caused all
the suffering in Jerusalem during the final weeks of the siege.  The
rebels were upset that the Rabbis wanted to sue for peace instead of
fight the Romans.  The head of the rebels later repented; too late to
save Jerusalem, but soon enough to help R.  Jochanan b. Zachai to
escape and establish a Yeshiva at Yavneh.  (Gittin, 57b or so).

And, yes, there are incorrect ways to observe our common religion.
See, for example, the last (19th) Bracha that was added to the Shmone
Esreh: La'malshinim (against the slanderers).
--
===================================================
But those who toiled knew nothing of the dreams of 
        Those Who Planned;                         
And the minds who planned the Tower of Babel       
        Cared nothing for the workers who built it.

	-Metropolis
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: krulwich@zowie.ils.nwu.edu (Dov (Bruce) Krulwich)
Subject: Minyonim in Northeastern PA
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences, Evanston, IL
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:07:36 GMT


I'm going to be spending a few days next week with relatives in Northeastern
PA right near the Deleware Water Gap, specifically in Windgap PA.  Does anyone
know of any Minyonim (or Jewish communities in general) in that area?  Are
there any religious vacation communities near there?

Thanks for any info anyone has.  Please email it, as I don't read SCJ
regularly anymore.

Take care,

Dov (Bruce) Krulwich
krulwich@ils.nwu.edu

 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Advertising on the Net - NOTES FROM A SEALED ROOM
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 18 Aug 92 06:59:07 GMT
Keywords: Persian Gulf War

mw = weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
rg = goer@quads (Richard L. Goerwitz) writes:

rg: So what now?  Are writers that you find moving or personally appealing
rg: exempt from the traditional flames that blatant (and in fact self-
rg: admitted) commercialism often incites here?

mw: It's a fundamental Jewish principle that you do not judge someone without
mw: first going through their experiences.  Unless you are willing to claim
mw: that you spent six weeks with a gas mask and a sealed room, you have only
mw: one option: just shut up.

I was here during the war.  What rules that I might otherwise be
expected to follow do I get exempted from?  Is the exemption only from
the rule against advertising, or can I substitute one of my own?
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire hall		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very bitter theft.
 |warren@      But the hiker
/ nysernet.org is not concerned at all.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: A Byte Of Torah - The Archives
From: ToraByte <CFRQC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Monday, 17 Aug 1992 21:05:07 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

 /////////////////////////////////////////                                 B'SD
         ////                             /////////
        ////  //////  //////    //////  ///     // //   // //////// ///////
       //// //    // //   //  //    // ///     //  //  //    //    //
      //// //    // //   //  //    // /////////    // //    //    //
     //// //    // //////   //////// ///     //     ///    //    /////
    //// //    // //   //  //    // ///     //      //    //    //
   ////  //////  //    // //    // /////////       //    //    ///////
  ////

Shalom Uvrucha! A Byte Of Torah is now archived at israel.nysernet.org. If
you would like to download any of the backissues, then ftp to
israel.nysernet.org and type cd /israel/tanach/commentary/bytetorah
The issues are arranged as byteVNN.weekly, where V is the volume number
                                             and NN is the issue number.
Enjoy! Kol Tuv!
                                     L'hit!
                                Zev S. Itzkowitz

                       ____________         ___*___
    T o  B o l d l y  (____________)       (_______)  G o  W h e r e  N o
       Y i d  H a s               \\      //   v        G o n e  B e f o r e
                                   \\    //
            /////                ___\\__//_
       *       //               (__________}                           *
      * *      //         // //                                       * *
   * * * * *  ///////// // // /////// //////// /// /// /// //////  * * * * *
    *     *          // // //      //       //  //  //  //   //     *     *
   * * * * *         //            /        //  // //  //    ///   * * * * *
      * *            //                     //  ////  //      //      * *
       *         /////                ///////// ///////       /        *

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jews in Japan
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:46:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: netnews.86685
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal)

In article <1992Aug19.185526.23757@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, sethr@cbnewsl (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:
>The Shinto priest then began to describe the Ceremonies, practices,
>etc. in great detail for guarding the Temple, with R.T. translating
>into modern Hebrew.  R.G. turned completely white as a ghost, as he
>recognized the practices for the guarding of the First Temple.  R.T.
>theorized at his talk that there was contact between Israelite
>refugees and the early inhabitants of the Japanese Islands that had
>some formative influence on Shinto.

An Israeli friend of mine once got interested in acupuncture, but was
worried if the material constituted avodah zora, so he asked his rabbi,
who thought it was humorous, but he'd look at it for bathroom reading,
and when he ran into his rabbi again a month later, the rabbi told him
that he took it out of the bathroom.  It seems certain diagrams of the
body bore a too close similarity to certain qabbalistic diagrams, much
to his surprise.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:14446 talk.politics.mideast:18789
From: sg04@ploni.gte.com (Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish friends - help!
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:55:17 GMT
Reply-To: sgutfreund@gte.com
Organization: GTE Laboratories, Waltham MA

In article <1992Aug12.001616.698@shearson.com>, esafern@shearson.com (Eric Safern) writes:
|> At a place I worked once, we had a birthday party - they bought a kosher
|> cake, and a brand new - sealed - knife.
|> 
|> One guy refused to have any cake, because the knife was brand new -
|> 
|> AND HADN'T BEEN TOVELED!!!!

Well, it will depend on what the knife is made of. If it is an unused
disposable plastic knife there would be no problem.

Some also hold that a clean & cold metal utensil can be used. Problems
might arise if the utensil was used to cut shart (e.g. garlic, onion)
items or for hot foods.

For, example many will drink from a glass at a non-kosher bar,
since one can rely on the barkeeper to use clean glasses.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund		 		  sgutfreund@gte.com
GTE Laboratories, Waltham MA			    harvard!bunny!sgutfreund
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: davef@cs.ubc.ca (David Finkelstein)
Subject: Re: Egg Creams (was Re: Proof of the Decline and Fall)
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 23:10:32 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.213833.21919@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>It comes out wrong if you use bottled seltzer.  Seltzer delivered in
>"spritz" bottles works much better.  Unfortunately, they are hard to
>come by, these days.  My grandfather still gets them, but he's the
>only one I know of.

There's a company on the SF peninsula called "Seltzer Sisters" who
will deliver bottles of seltzer to your door (they collect the empties
for reuse).  Far superior seltzer to what you can make with a soda
siphon.  My parents go through about 6 in a week (more when I'm
home!).  They'll also deliver knishes and other goodies.




--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
David Finkelstein               |"Nothing comes out of the faucet
University of British Columbia  | but strawberry jelly.  I guess 
davef@cs.ubc.ca                 | that's how rich millionaires live."
From: trb@ima.isc.com (Andrew Tannenbaum)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: KOL ISRAEL ....<inquiry>
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:21:17 GMT
Organization: Interactive Systems, Cambridge, MA 02138-5302

In article <s207oB1w165w@valpso.hanse.de>, tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer) writes:
> I must say that I enjoyed doing this, but if nobody cares about it,
> then I don't need to invest my time with it.

Whenever Kol Yisrael sends out a full schedule update (in the postal
mail), hpb@hpb.cis.pitt.edu (Harry Bloomberg) has typed it in and
posted it pretty quickly - he last did this in April.  Of course I am
not volunteering him to commit to doing so permanently, I'm just
applauding his previous efforts.

These paper schedules sometimes come in the mail a few weeks after the
changes happen, so I, trb@ima.isc.com (Andy Tannenbaum), have been
posting schedules that I transcribe from Kol Yisrael's radio show
"DX Corner with Ben Dalfen."  These schedules only cover Hebrew and
English Kol Yisrael services.

Recent versions of these schedules are always available from the
shortwave schedule archive at ftp site ftp.funet.fi (assuming these are
kept up to date), or from me or Harry.

Perhaps we should store Kol Yisrael schedules on israel.nysernet.org?
(I'll check into this.)

	Andrew Tannenbaum   Interactive   Cambridge, MA   +1 617 661 7474
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Advertising on the Net - NOTES FROM A SEALED ROOM
Keywords: Persian Gulf War
Date: 17 Aug 92 13:06:37 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: goer@quads.uchicago.edu (Richard L. Goerwitz)

In article <1992Aug14.190652.18380@midway.uchicago.edu>, goer@quads (Richard L. Goerwitz) writes:
>So what now?  Are writers that you find moving or personally appealing
>exempt from the traditional flames that blatant (and in fact self-
>admitted) commercialism often incites here?

It's a fundamental Jewish principle that you do not judge someone without
first going through their experiences.  Unless you are willing to claim
that you spent six weeks with a gas mask and a sealed room, you have only
one option: just shut up.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu (Richard Schultz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: targeting Jews (was Re: more of ...can of worms....)
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:21:50 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <57357@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
>But even within halakhah there are restrictions on 
>forcing others; Hillel summarized Judaism as 
>
>	What is hateful unto thee, do not unto thy neighbor.

Interesting that Mr. Rubin should bring this up, as it's part of a long 
aggadatah in which Hillel demonstrates (among other things) that one has to
accept the Oral Law as well as the Written Law.

					Richard Schultz
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Subject: Re: Jewish summer camps (Was: Hebrew school)
Organization: Summit NJ
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:31:57 GMT

>Hebrew School was never a motivating experience for me, so that would
>have been absolutely the wrong approach to get ME into a jewish
>summer camp.

I'm now wondering if our synagogues are approaching the education issue
correctly; specifically, they're trying to treat it as a "school" instead
of as an extra-curricular activity.  After a whole day of public school,
more structured "school", especially when motivation is absent or when
there are "fun" activities that the children are missing, is not going
to be received positively.

Maybe it should be run more like a Boy Scout Troop, with weekday things
and weekend things.  Would it be so bad, for example, if once a month,
a class came to Mincha - Maariv (and their parents had to sponsor the
Seudah Shlishit) as part of their education instead of coming Sunday
morning, or even Wednesday afternoon?  Even a full day Shabbaton could
sometimes be more educational than a week's worth of classes, or even
Junior Congregation instead of a regular class.

I personally think that as long as the "official" position is that
it's a "school" and they "expect" the same level of dedication and
cooperation as do the public schools, we're shooting ourselves in the
foot.
-- 
Stan Krieger                     All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
AT&T UNIX System Laboratories    if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: more of ...can of worms....
Date: 18 Aug 92 13:19:00 GMT
Organization: liver ---> spleen

In article <56951@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu
(Herman Rubin) writes:

->In article <1992Aug11.200659.7029@njitgw.njit.edu>
->dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:

->>The Rabbis realized this when they said that a tradition which is
->>accepted by Israel for long enough becomes like a law.  This is why
->>some "traditions" like wearing Yarmulkae are treated like commandments
->>these days - the tradition was widely accepted for a long enough time
->>that it should now be treated as a law.

->This is what stultifies anything.  Not only can one separate the two,
->one must.  As I stated in an earlier post, one can take the Jew from
->the stetl, but can one take the stetl from the Jew?  Ashkenazi Orthodoxy
->is based on the stetl.

->As for traditions becoming laws, the advancement of science is due to 
->nothing short of mathematical proof becoming established so that it 
->cannot be overturned, and often without too much difficulty.  Knowledge
->is always incomplete, and even the greatest are necessarily ignorant.
->Newtonian optics was completely abandoned, not because those arguing
->against it were greater, but because they showed it was wrong.  Newtonian
->gravity actually was disproved where Newton suggested that one should look
->for the disproof.  

Does this mean there is a tradition of logic by now?  If so, will it be
overthrown? Can it?
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
		Note new machine name
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: thanks (Re: Jewish friends - help!)
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:55:10 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Aug18.185817.4314@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com> lms@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Max Stern 310-524-6152) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.193505.19070@njitgw.njit.edu>
>dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>
>>Even at Passover, just look for the cans which are stamped "kosher for
>>Passover".  Unfortunately, the stamp is in Hebrew, so you may have a
>>problem, but there is normally no Hebrew anything embossed in the lids
>>of Coke cans, so it should still be OK.
>
>If it helps, the inscription should be (reading from right to left):
>
>  Kaf, Shin, Resh, <space>, Lamed, Peh, Samech, Chet

How will that help if the person doesn't know Hebrew?  Anyway, not to
be outdone, here's a close approximation of what it should look like:

                           >
                           |
______   ______  ______    \_____       ______                 ______
 |    |   |    |  |    \         \            \  \      /   /        \
 |    |   |    |  \__ . |        |            |   \    /   /      .  |
 |    |   |    |        |    ____/            |    \  /   /          |
 |    |    \__/   _____/    /                 |     \/___/     ______/
                            |
                             \

Gee, that looks terrible!, but it approximates Hebrew letters (except
for that sickly "Lamed"!)

-- 
   |)  David Charlap           "I don't even represent myself
  /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu   sometimes so NJIT is right out!.
 ((|,)
  ~|~  Hi! I am a .signature virus, copy me into your .signature file.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish