From: rowdy@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (robert.dieckmann)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Penn State update <more bad news>
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:47:31 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Sep2.040337.19510@icf.hrb.com> mjk@icf.hrb.com (Michael J. Kelley) writes:
> In article <1992Sep1.202745.9944@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>, rowdy@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (robert.dieckmann) writes:
> > In article <1992Aug29.064049.19496@icf.hrb.com> mjk@icf.hrb.com (Michael J. Kelley) writes:
> > 


Honest folks, this is my last words on the current topic.
A couple of comments here and then in the article written
by Lohn Leinaweaver "Bob's Bashing of Penn State."

I wrote:
> > I have no such reservations.  The 2 players were arrested for
> > looting their classmates dormitories.
> 
> You should get your facts straight before you go shooting your big mouth off. 
> They were arrested by State College police at an off-campus apartment. It is
> still burglary and they got what they justly deserved.
> 

You're right, I should.  But, tell me, how much does the story
change if I said classmates dormitories and it really was
off-campus apartments.  Do some of their classmates live in
off-campus apartments?  My daughter goes to Stockton State College
and lives in an off-campus apartment.

Here's my point.  Two players were arrested possessing stolen goods
and in one's car were additional stolen goods from other apartments
that were broken into.  They were caught red-handed, arrested, detained,
released, and allowed to practice with the team.  This last was
substantiated by another poster quoting an AP article in the 
Washington PA Observer.  I think it is wrong to allow felons, drunks,
drug abusers, etc., to continue practicing with a college team.

>  
> > My criticism is that their are 2 players who were charged with
> > obstructing justice, but were allowed to keep practicing with
> > the team.  
> 
> What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty???

Innocent until proven guilty is a cornerstone principle of justice
in a court of law.  We're talking about a college football team.

> Anybody could go down to 
> the police station and charge that some football player beat the shit out of
> him because he wouldn't give him his lunch money. They would bring him up on 
> charges and then there would be a hearing...etc. Does that mean that the player 
> should not be allowed to practice because somebody made up some bullshit story.

I say: if a player is caught stealing, taking/buying/selling drugs,
in public drunkness, violating the team's code of conduct etc.,
there should be disciplinary action in the form of separation
from the team for a period of time.  The word up there is
"caught" not "charged."


> There are alot of people out there who love to hate the Penn State football
> players just because they get so much attention. I have worked the past three
> years with E.J. Sandusky and he is one heck of a nice kid. Not that everybody
> on the team is a nice kid, but people are out there who love to bring these 
> kids down. 

Please read my posts again.  I'm not out to bring any Penn State kids down.
I've repeatedly requested information on your Stephen Pitts in posts
and in e-mail; no response.  It's Joe Paterno and the administration
of the Penn State football team that I have beef with.

> 
> >Then one player was arrested for selling cocaine,
> > but he's allowed to keep practicing with the team; now this case.
>  
> Again this is a similar situation. I have heard that the evidence in this case
> is very sketchy at best. I've heard that this one may not even go to trial
> because of conflicting evidence against him. 
> 
> > As long as Joe Paterno does nothing, there is no message.
> > Mr. Paterno should send a message that is loud and clear,
> > and then this kind of hooliganism will stop.  I think it is a
> > carryover from the QB who was constantly being hauled in
> > on drunken charges, but little was done by the athletic department.
>  
> If memory serves me correctly, this player was suspended from the team for a
> brief period of time. He then promised to go through treatment for his problem
> and later came back to the team. 
> 
> You have any idea how many college students are arrested for public drunkeness?

72,000?

> What do you want the Athletic Depatment to do?? The school doesn't do anything
> to the hundreds of students who get busted for public drunkeness. Should we
> ruin a kids life simply because he's a football player and he got caught doing 
> what thousands of other kids do here in State College.  

The fact that thousands of kids do anything doesn't make it right.
The football team has a code of conduct.  No?  Any penalties for
violating this code of conduct.

> 
> 
> > The image of Penn State football is slipping.
> 
> I'll agree here, but it's because of narrow minded people like you who are too 
> quick to judge others. 

Narrow minded and big-mouthed, eh?  And I'm the one who's 
"too quick to judge others?"

>  
>  
>                                                                  Mike Kelley
>                                                                  St. College,PA.
>  
>  ###############################################################################
>  DoD # 645              Go Nittany Lions !!!             Beat The Bearcats!!!
>  ###############################################################################


-- 
"Listen up son, and pay attention.   |  Bob Dieckmann (rwd@mtfme.att.com)
How ya' gonna learn anything if you  |  GO: Mets (& dear old Rutgers)
always got your head in a book?"     |  I probably should've included smileys.
                -- Foghorn Leghorn   |  **usual disclaimer**