From: sarfatti@well.sf.ca.us (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: re: White Paper DOD and CIA funding of paranormal.
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 05:42:18 GMT


From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: New Physics, Healing, Paranormal
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 21:09:44 GMT

In article <C1GEpL.4H7@well.sf.ca.us>, sarfatti@well.sf.ca.us (Jack
Sarfatti) wr

ites in part:
|> The gossip
|> is that Martin Gardner and the arch-debunker, "The Amazing Randi" take
|> psychic phenomena very seriously. That is why they came down so hard on
Uri
|> Geller because they believe him to be an imposter - a stage magician in
|> psychic clothes. It is certainly true that Randi can do everything that
|> Geller can do. It is also true that Geller fails rigorous tests set up by
|> other stage magicians.

You really shouldn't repeat unsubstantiated gossip about individuals.
However, these comments are pretty slippery.  Yes, MG and JR "take
psychic phenoman very seriously"--why else would they spend so much
time and effort debunking such claims.  And yes they came down hard
on UG because they believe him to be an imposter.  And you state the
essence of the claims against UG.  What exactly are you trying to
say?

And by the way, claims that the military/CIA have successfully used
and believe in remote viewing are most likely lies or mistakes.  Next
thing you'll be telling me is that something is true because Richard
Nixon said so in a press conference.  Puh-leeeze.

|> On the other hand, I saw topologically intricate
|> twisted metal allegedly bent by psychics in Brazil that is very puzzling.

I can't realy help you being puzzled.  Many things puzzle me, but
most aren't remotely psychic.

--

  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois

Dear Robert,
I am presenting both side of the issue - it's a White Paper for politicians,
military intelligence officers, bankers, CEOs of multinationals - these are
busy men and women who do not want to know the precise references! This is
not for scientists - but for the people who buy and sell scientists like
pork bellies. Also it is a rough draft - and I am trying to elicit
information from you guys that might be of value to maintain the objectivity
of the information - your future salaries may well depend upon it. I don't
know if you have noticed that university budgets for physics are in decline.

As for DOD/CIA there are many publications on their funding of paranormal,
New York Times had several articles - ask William Broad at Times. Check out
Military Review and Signal - two professional magazines for military. There
is a book - that I helped to write by Ron Mc Rae, MIND WARS (St Martins
Press). I personally worked with two Central Intelligence Agency officers
who were involved. One funded me in 1985 overtly - he was at that time
officially no longer in the company - was at "station chief" level - I
got from the horse's mouth so to speak - not second hand gossip. You
mid also check Michael Murphy's book, The End to Ordinary History which
is a "fictional" account of real events. I was living in Murphy's apartment
on Telegraph Hill during some of the episodes.