From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
Subject: Re: UTNE READER - summary of male/female articles (Jan/Feb, '92)
Organization: Motorola, CCR&D, CORP, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 12:15:15 GMT
Keywords: UTNE, men, women,


In article <1993Jan5.131628.20312@cbfsb.cb.att.com> colten@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (marc.colten) writes:
(about Utne reader)

I happend to find this issue, and read some of the articles since the
description sounded interesting.  (I probably wouldn't have noticed it
except for the original post - thanks for pointing it out).

)Article: (no title) 
)Author: Lawrence Wright  
)Excerpted from: Texas Monthly (Feb. 1992)
)
)This article is about the author ambivalence about the current
)view of men in society.  He admits that some men are very violent
)towards women, but points out that:
)     
)     "Many women dismiss female violence in the home either as
)     innocuous and different in nature from male violence or as
)     self-defense, but Suzanne Steinmetz, a sociology professor
)     at Indiana University, found that some men become targets of
)     abuse when they attempt to protect their children from the
)     mother's violence

)My rating:  Pro-male, sort of, more like "guilty, with an explanation"

Yep.  A lot of the statistics were very familiar - much of the same ones
we see on the net.  A lot of very mixed messages, though, as you point
out.

)
)Article: Ending the battle between the sexes
)Authors: Aaron R. Kipnis & Elizabeth Hingston
)Special to UTNE READER
)
)
)They begin by comparing the "dearth of compassion about the
)predicaments of the other sex":
)
)
)     	  Women feel sexually harassed; men feel their courting
)          behavior is often misunderstood.
)
)     	  Women fear men's power to wound them physically; men
)          fear women's power to wound them emotionally.

)Their solutions:
)
)     The opportunity to speak openly about feelings and gender
)     roles, starting early.
)
)     The willingness to really listen to what the other group has
)     to say.
)
)     Fairness in that discussions include both sides and does not
)     trivialize one group's concerns.
)
)
)My rating:  Mostly fair, but still slight more pro-female.  Notice
)            that women's issue are presented as more life and death
)            then men's and men's as being "concerns".

I didn't notice this, but I didn't do more than give it a quick read.  My
initial impression of this artice was quite favorable.  It's not big on
political action, though (on the part of either sex) unsuprisingly.

)Sidebar:  Listen up guys!
)Author:   "Starhawk"
)Excerpted from:     "Women respond to the Men's Movement: A
)                    Feminist Collection" by Kay Leigh Hagan
)                    (1992)

)A very short excerpt that begins with:
)
)     The Clarence Thomas hearings brought my rage back. Wham,
)     pow, oh, yes, men still don't listen to women.
)
)
)and warns us to:
)
)     Don't take it personally, don't defend yourselves, just once
)     in a while shut up and listen.

)
)My rating:  Anti-male

Yep.  A real classic.  Sorta like reading the net. An alleged message to be
more reasonable couched in very inappropriate language (direct orders) that
belies what is literally being said and implying a lot of unpleasant and
nasty stuff that isn't directly said.  A scream of rage clothed as a request
to be 'reasonable'.  As I said before, a classic bit of propaganda.

)Sidebar: The fight is far from over
)Author:  Rebecca Walker
)Excerpted from:     Court of Appeal: The Black Community Speaks
)                    Out on the Racial and Sexual Politics of
)                    Thomas vs. Hill
)
)
)I have to say that this is one of two excerpts that read as if
)they were written from another planet.
)
)She starts by commenting on the Thomas hearings:
)
)     While some may laud the spectacle for the consciousness it
)     raised, it's very real outcome is more informative.  He was
)     promoted.  She was repudiated.  Men were assured of the
)     inviolability of their power.  Women were admonished to keep
)     their experiences to themselves.  Thomas' confirmation sends
)     a clear message to women:  "Shut up!  Even if you speak we
)     will not listen."

)My rating:  Anti-male, bordering on hallucination

Hmm - I think I'm  too used to this sort of oddness from reading the net.
Definitely irrational ranting (and very angry), I agree, but I didn't find it
at all unusual, and I think a fair number of people 'think' this way.

)Sidebar:  The blue balls bluff
)Author:   Helen Cordes
)Special to UTNE READER
)
)This is a rebuff to Paglia's article which she feels brings back
)the stereotype that men who rape are just "... doin' what comes
)naturally" and women should "... just get used to it".
)
)My rating:  Mostly fair. Some men are pigs, some women are losers,
)            let's work on it.

I liked this article quite a bit.  My impression of the article was that it
was mostly about knocking the 'biological deterministic' point of view,
inherent in some of Paglia's position, something that I also disagree with.
Not really about 'pigs/losers' at all (IMO).

)Sidebar:  His and hers politics
)Author:   Barbara Kingsolver
)Excerpted from:     "Women respond to the Men's Movement: A
)                    Feminist Collection" by Kay Leigh Hagan
)                    (1992)
)
)
)This is the other article that strikes me as being written from
)some far away place.  She begins by complaining about the symbols
)on bathrooms.  The men's room has the standard symbol of "man"
)while the women's:
)
)     ... showed a silhouette of someone wearing a beehive hairdo
)     and applying lipstick.

Rather far out as you suggest, but slightly less irrational and angry (IMO)
than the one about Thomas.  Some legitimate concerns may have been mixed in
with the off-the-wall stuff, I think.  Not that I recall what they were.
Newsgroups: soc.men,alt.feminism