Newsgroups: rec.equestrian


                       HORSE COLORS

Quotes are taken from _The Horse_ by J. Warren Evans, Anthony Borton,
Harold Hintz and L. Dale Van Vleck.

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GRULLA: 
"Dilution of black or seal brown hair, not a mixture of black and
white hair; black points and usually dorsal stripe"

Gruella is what I call a "dusty rose" color.  I have a friend who has
a Gruella Appy, with a beautiful white blanket and black spots; and, I
have 2 friends who have a Gruella Buckskin with Dun Factor. (Zebra-
like lines on the back of the legs).  I have one friend who owns a
"true" Buckskin...the "just darker than a Palamino" color, with the
dark brown mane, tail and lower legs.  Both Gruella Buckskins have a
dark dorsal stripe, but the other Buckskin doesn't.  I am not aware
of the reasoning behind this, tho...

I don't think they can be roans.  Every grullo I've seen was the color
of a field mouse (like a dark gray/brown combination), usually with a
black mane and tail with black legs, unless they have white
socks/stockings.  The color was completely solid with no roaning at
all.  You may be thinking of a blue roan, which would be like a dark
gray or black horse with white hairs mixed in throughout the body.

Gorgeous horse, sort of a dark grayish brownish color with dorsal and
leg stripes.

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CREMELLO: 
"Double Dilution of chestnut.  Off-white or cream body with even
lighter mane and tail.  Also called Type-A albino - not a true albino."

Cremello - I think this may be what my first pony was.  He was white in
the winter and a pale palamino in the summer.

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DUN: 
"Dilution of dark bay or seal brown; sooty yellow to yellow-red 
body, black points and usually dorsal stripe."  

Duns sometimes have black/dark brown dorsal stripes (being a dun
buckskin) and/or zebra stripes on the legs, but are also known to have
no black on them at all. Duns with flaxen mane and tail are considered
to be dark palominos rather than duns.

Dun - Duns can have red in them (they are called red duns).  They can
also be sort of like a light brown.  I was told by someone in my
horsey past that the duns MUST have dorsal stripes in order to be
registered with the buckskin association as a "dun" rather than a
"buckskin". 

The AQHA has sent out an advisory to its members that they have a new
definition of dun and buckskin, to whit: duns have dorsal stripes,
buckskins do not. Apparently, they are revising new registrations
to reflect this new definition.

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BUCKSKIN: 
"Dilution of lighter shades of bay; clear light yellow to dark cream
body, black points, often with dorsal stripe."

Peanut butter Buckskin-just like it sounds-sort of a orange-tan
buckskin with black points.

Golden buckskin - the classic golden color with black points

Smokey buckskin - Head and heck and rump a very dark brown, with more
yellowing on the belly.  Definately not really grullo.

Oatmeal buckskin.  A shade just lighter than golden, with darker hairs on the
rump and neck.  But it isn't oatmeal color at all. 

Creamy buckskin.  Very pale gold, almost cream, with black points.

Chestnut is the official term for a yellow, red, tan, or brown horse
with the same color or lighter mane and tail.  A Palomino is called a
bright chestnut in Arabs.  Sorrel is the cowboy term for a red horse.
The breed registries, (Arab, Quarter Horse and most others) only
accept Chestnut as the proper term.  I think TBs are referred to as
being Brown, not Chestnut but don't quote me.)


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SORREL: 
"Difficult to distinguish from light chestnuts but has more yellowish
body showing little or no red. Mane and tail are often same as body,
but with flaxen mane and tail, may appear similar to dark palomino."

I *think* the main difference between sorrel and chestnut is the color
of the mane and tail.  Chestnuts have solid red manes/tails, the color
of their body hair (but they may have some darker hairs mixed in too).

Sorrels can have white or flaxen color in their mane/tail hair.
Sorrels are usually a little more orange than red in color.  

Among the variations of sorrel are, that I remember hearing or using:
Cherry sorrel a dark deep red (Red Sonny Dee AQHA is listed as this
color) Chestnut Sorrel a dark red with lighter colored legs Light
Sorrel a strawberry blonde color (we call this orange)

On the subject of color, I disagree with the Sorrel coloring of mane/tail.
I have a dapple chestnut, with a flaxen mane/tail. Sorrels can have solid
mane/tails same color as the body, or flaxen mane/tail. Chestnut is similar
to Palamino, only darker, some people refer to her as a dark Palamino, where
as Sorrel is Red, either bright or dull, lighter shade.

	Different breed registries have different versions of sorrel
vs. chestnut.  The sorrel described here is actually a blond sorrel
the action of the Z silver dapple gene on ee chestnut.  In the past
the AQHA has called as sorrel a dark clear red body color with no
smuttiness (caused by the Sty smutty gene), and chestnut those horses
that are either light clear chestnuts, or those that are obviously
smutty, such as muddy chestnuts, liver chestnuts and the like.  
Their current description differs from past ones as the new directive
on buckskin vs. dun will change things for those horses of those
colors in the future.

	The Belgian registry calls as sorrels those horses that are
Z- ee blond sorrels, and chestnut are ee horses.

	I believe there is another registry (I can't remember which)
that calls those horses that are dark color sorrel, and those that are
lighter chestnut despite the fact that these colors are genetically
indistinct.

(For information about the Z ee and other genetic terms, see the GENETICS
FAQ which follows.) 

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TOBIANO: 
" is apparently dominant and is characterized by white
over the back and up the legs, and by a normally marked head."

OVERO: 
" apparently requires a pair of recessive genes and is 
characterized by color over the back and on the legs and by
much white on the head."

Now an easy way to remember the difference in Paint color:

OVERO -  Never color OVER the back (OVERO see not Over) 
         (the never color is white)

TOBIANO  - white color over the back.

Imagine a brown horse:
Pour paint over his back and let it run down the sides TOBIANO 
Now turn him on his back and pour paint on his belly and let it run 
 toward his back OVERO
     

Along the Tobiano/Overo line:  I own a Gray and White Tobiano,
registered APHA.  Tobiano is more color than white, and Overo is more
white than color.  My tobiano, High Action Hank, is also, as he gets
older, graying (from black) more and more!  He has a white "ring",
about 1 foot width wise, that goes around the upper portion of his
neck, making about 1/3 of his mane white, and the rest black.  He
has white going across his withers and down both sides at that point,
but not all the way around his body, like the white on his neck.
Then, he has a white "streak" going across the right side of his rump,
and "dripping" down his hip.  He has 2 white socks in front, a very
high white stocking on his right hind leg, and a small "socklet",
just up to his ankle, on the left hind leg.  As he is graying, he is
looking dappled and marbled, and somewhat blue roanish.  He has been
mistaken for an Appy, even, but at 16.1 hands and a Thouroghbreddy
looking head, this doesn't happen often.  "Paint" people know what
he is, tho!!!  I think he's handsome, but, then, I'm bias!

Generally, overo is a colored horse with some white while a tobiano is
a white horse with some color. But don't count on this, since some
lines (such as Far Ute Keno and his projeny) are overo, but display
more white than color, and I know of tobiano lines which are covered
in color.

To be specific, overos tend to have color along the length of the spine
between the whithers and the top of the croup. They also tend to have
color on all four legs (though not always.) Blue eyes (or wall-eyed)
are an overo trait exclusively. Overos often have one or more white
hooves (but again, don't count on it.) The color on overos tend to have
an irregular border (sort of like a map of Norway) and irregular shapes.
The color on overos are often "bordered", where colored hairs and white
hairs are mixed in a region 3-10mm around the edge of the colored spots.

Tobianos most often have white crossing the spine. The legs are mostly
white (usually only one or two will have color and this mostly at the
top.) Tobianos do not have blue eyes (though toveros might.) Tobianos
usually have all-black hooves (but again, don't depend upon this.)
Tobiano colors tend to be roughly regular shapes with clean, sharp borders
(no bordering, no "maps of Norway"). I don't recall seeing a palomino
tobiano, but I suppose they are possible.

The final classification is tovero. These are overo-tobiano mixes and --
boy -- do they cause classification problems. They have characteristics of
both strains.

Overo and tobiano are distinct genetic types -- different genes express
the characteristics, rather than different selections within the same
genes.


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LETHAL WHITE 

In the Paint world, there is a genetic disorder of all-white foals
called "lethal white".  These foals cannot absorb water, for some
reason, and die within a few days of birth.  So the last thing a Paint
breeder wants to see is an all-white foal.

Albino horses do not live much past birth.  Crossing paint horses, Tobianos,
I think, will give you a 1 in 4 chance of producing a Lethal White.  This
is what breeders call a true Albino.  The foal is either aborted, born
dead, or dies within a few hours.  There are serious genetic problems with
albino horses.

I don't think true white horses are all that rare.  I've seen quite a few.
They can have major problems with skin cancer.

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WHITE/GREY

I just couldn't let this pass.  One of the earlier posters on horse
color referred to Arabs as having a lot of white horses.  Actually
Arabs are NEVER white.  White is a horse with a pink skin, grey horses
have black skin.  There are a lot of grey Arabs, not white ones.  I
have seen some white horses but they are never Arabs.

To further clarify re: "white Arabs", all grey Arabians will
eventually turn white with age, some faster than others. Although
there are a few instances of Arabians being born "white", these horses
would still be registered as grey because they have the black skin.
Therefore, although there are many white- looking Arabians, these are
in actuality grey horses that have turned white with age.

I believe there is an American breed of horses with their own
registery that are actually white horses with pink skin - but are NOT
albinos. I think they are called American White horses?

Grey horse owners need to be aware of the increased susceptability
grey horses have to "grey horse melanoma", a form of skin cancer.
Sorry, I've forgotten how to identify it. Probably my wife knows...
she's the one with the gray horse!  --

I am just  curious how my Arabs  coloring  figures in.  What exactly is
flea-bit  grey?  How can  you  tell  when  it  will  come?  What  about
markings  such  as  "bloody  shoulders"  and  "hand-prints"   that  are
sometimes found on Arabs?

	Flea-bitten grey is a version of grey where some pigment cells
become reactivated and little dots or speckles or flecks of the
original coat color start growing back into the white coat.  The
fleabitten color can become so total that the horse will begin to
resemble the chestnut bay or black that they once were.  There is
probably a genetic mechanism for flea-bitten grey that has not been
discovered yet as some lines of horses, Egyptian Arabians come to mind
are known for producing heavily flea-bitten greys.  The extent of the
flea-bitten color may also be controlled for genetically as some lines
produce very minimally flea-bitten horses whereas in others the
flea-bitten color comes in at an early age and becomes very heavy.
Again the mechanism is unknown it is probably a modifier gene such as
the one or ones which control how fast the greying process takes
place.  I have an entirely unstudied theory that flea-bitten color can
at least be limited in extent by keeping the horse out of the sun.
However if a horse is going to get flea-bitten it will get at least
some flea-bitten color regardless of where it is kept.

	Bloody shoulders, or handprints, or bloody marks on Arabs is a
unique feature to the Arabian breed apparently (though part-bred
descendants can also inherit this).  Bloody marks are areas of
pigmenting that never grey out on a grey horse.  They can be quite
extensive or they can be very small.  The genetic mechanism is again
unknown but is unique to Arabians and said to show antique or ancient
blood.  The occasionally white body spotting that shows up in Arabs
and leg runs, white leg markings that continue in a streak up the leg
sometimes past the hock, are also said to show old blood and may be
related to the Sb sabino gene or it may be something unique.  If
related to the sabino gene it may explain the very rare parti-colored
horses that are occassionally born to purebred Arabian parents.
 

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CANADIAN REGISTRY

I have been reading with interest all the messages on colours in horses. 
As with any arbitrary system of classification it does little justice to
the beauty it attempts to describe.  It does however do credit to people's
imagination and inventiveness.

I would like to add to the body of knowledge we have developed here and
give you the colours and definitions that are recognized by the Canadian
Horse Breeders Association (the association of people who breed horses of
the Canadian Breed), the (Canadian) Department of Agriculture and the
Canadian Livestock Records Corporation:

Black  : which includes 'fading' blacks.  Fading blacks are black horses
      whose coats burn to a mixture of browns ranging from mahogany to
      sandalwood when kept outdoors all summer long.  The browns are
      evenly mixed so that the coat does not appear patchy and if you look
      closely the coat is an even mixture of all the different brown
      colours.  It can be quite beautiful.  The mane, tail and legs stay
      jet black as well as the coat under the mane which is protected from
      the sun.

Dark Bay:  Very dark brown with black mane and tail, may or may not have
      some black on the legs.  The coat is usually the colour of a beaver
      pelt.

Bay: Reddish-brown hairs with black tips on the body and legs.  The mane
      and tail are black.

Chestnut:  A Chestnut is any horse with a mane and tail that are not
      black.  The mane and tail can be dark brown to light brown, blond 
      to red or any mixture of the four.   This designation is further 
      defined by the colour of the coat of which there are 4 recognized 
      colours:
      
Clear or pale Chestnut:  The mane and tail can be any colour but black. 
      The body is a pale even colour, usually the colour of a palomino. 
      The mane and tail are usually reddish blonde, but never like a
      palomino's.

Golden Chestnut:  The mane and tail are any colour but black, usually    
      darker than Clear Chestnuts.  The coat is a gold colour, sometimes
      the colour of red gold, often with a reddish hue.

Dark Chestnut:  The mane and tail are any colour but black, usually darker
      than the coat often reddish brown.  The coat ranges from a pale
      copper through a rich dark copper to browns.

Burnt Chestnut:  The mane and tail are any colour but black, usually dark
      reddish brown to dark brown.  The coat is coffee coloured to almost 
      black.

Of course the horses don't all fall neatly into these artificial
pigeonholes and their colours are sometimes hard to place, especially
the chestnuts.

There are no white or grey Canadians.  The colours for the breed break
down as follows:

Mares:           48% black        23% chestnut           29% bay

Stallions:       58% black        22% chestnut           20% bay

Geldings:        41% black        22% chestnut           37% bay

There are approximately 1100 Registered Canadians in the world, most of
which are in Quebec.





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