HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: BMW quits the GTCC
Date: 5 Nov 92 15:37:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: pyramid.184133
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

David Fuller writes:

>>bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Henry) writes:
>>> BMW has announced its withdrawal from the GTCC (German Touring Car
>>> Championship).  [...]
>>> This leaves the GTCC with twelve works cars from Mercedes, Opel and
>>> Alfa.  There are quite a few privateers but its not that healthy.

>Perhaps it is time for some good 'ol American iron and some bubbas to liven
>things up.  Perhaps it's time for Hudson Motor Sports to unveil its entry...

Yeah, there you go.  I'm not too sure about the Hudson (Cannonball will have
to fill us in here), but how about some Camaros, Firebirds, or Mustangs?  Are 
they still legal in TCCs in Europe?  I'm not too informed about the touring 
cars :-( (I guess that would be a good project during the offseason).  

But I do know that they used to be legal.  Richard Lloyd, Stuart Graham and
others used to campaign some pretty competitive 5.7L and 7.4L G1 Camaros in
the early '70s.  And Brian Muir and Frank Garner had some pretty competitive
Camaro outtings in G2 around the same time.

BTW, Keke Rosberg has left BMW for Joest Opel in next year's GTCC.  Now only
if we can get Irvan, Earnhardt, and Rudd over there in some 5.7L Camaros.

Dan Jones
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis)
Subject: Re: Drivers' Championships and technology (was: Aus GP Stuff)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:43:42 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

tomh@wes.on.ca (Tom Haapanen) writes, in part:
>                         [  .  .  .  .  .  ]                    I predict
>that active suspensions, semiauto gearboxes and traction control will be
>relatively commonplace (and *relatively* inexpensive on the F1 scale) in
>the space of five years.
>
>But what could be done to limit the advantage enjoyed by a single team?
>    
>    2. Ban it.  I doubt that this is a desirable direction in general. 
>       Sure, IndyCars do it this way, but that doesn't mean it'll work
>       for F1.  Maybe you'd could say "no full-auto transmissions" but
>       I doubt anything more would get by FOC...  :)

Oddly enough all three of the technologies you mention above are on the
proposed list of technologies that should be banned.  If by some strange
quirk of fate the proposed ban gets approved we will be in the peculiar
position of F1 not being allowed to use technologies that will almost
certainly be available on street cars costing something like $30,000.
Obvious candidates: the next generation of the Corvette, the followon to
the Mitsubishi 3000, and whatever the Japanese build to compete with it.
(I'm discounting Accura NSX, Porsche & Ferrari - they are too expensive).
-- 
John Francis                                 johnf@apollo.hp.com
with 9 cats to feed, I don't have time to think up a clever .sig
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: thomas@datamark.co.nz (Thomas Beagle)
Subject: Re: Re:Adelaide:Senna and Mansell
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 19:42:41 GMT
Organization: Datamark International Ltd.

In article <frank.33.721357376@wench.ece.jcu.edu.au> frank@wench.ece.jcu.edu.au (Frank Savaglio) writes:
>In article <1992Nov9.220217.7036@cc.uow.edu.au> ddd@cc.uow.edu.au (David Dodds) writes:
>
>>For those who watched the Walker/Hunt show, wasn't he great.
>>For example,
>
>>After the Senna/Mansell incident:
>>Murray: "And Mansell is running after Senna, I think he has something to say"
>>Next shot showed Mansell running away from where Senna was.
>
>My favourite was at the end of the race:
>
>Murray: "and Schumacher will win it!..... " as Shumacher was bearing down 
>on the Maclaren

The worst error (IMHO) was when Schumacher was stuck behind Hakkinen
(sp?) and couldn't get past.

Murray says something along the lines of, "...in fairness to Hakkinen,
I don't think he's holding him up much, their lap times are nearly
identical."

There's a short pause, and then the other commentator quietly observes
that the reason their lap times are nearly identical is because
Schumacher can't get past so the two cars are basically lapping
together.

That wasn't a goof - that was a complete lack of understanding!
-- 
    Thomas Beagle | thomas@datamark.co.nz           Work: 64 4 233 8186
Datamark Intl Ltd | thomas@cavebbs.welly.gen.nz     Home: 64 4 499 3832
 Technical Writer |       Damn, I think I'm suffering from angst.
From: dans@rehab1.UUCP (Dan Schein)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Phoenix Notes (NASCAR)
Date: 5 Nov 92 14:31:39 GMT
Reply-To: dans@rehab1.UUCP (Dan Schein)
Organization: Reading Rehab Hospital, Reading PA

In article <1992Nov3.125342.69239@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> jth4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JON T. HUTCHINSON) writes:
>I think Wallace was out of line. It's called being a professional. These
>things happen in racing. I've seen Earnhart take the time and explain what
>happened to his car. It's not like Wallace was doing anything, he was just
>sitting in his car. No wonder he's single, IT'S TIME TO GROW-UP.

  Rusty is married, he has children and has grown up. Lets look at a few
 things, (#1) Rusty just watched his chance for a win go down with his
 batteries voltage, (#2) he was about to renenter the race in a minute or
 two, (#3) he was concerned that riding with a battery on the floor might
 cause a problem (slide, tip over, acid fumes, etc). Im sure if his car was
 -OUT- he would have taken the time to explain. But with crew members who
 asked Glenn (not Ned) to stay back - I thnk he handled it just fine.

 -Dan
-- 
  Reading Rehabilitation Hospital                 Network Adminstration,
  Dan Schein - Information Systems    __|__       Programming, Parenting,
  RD 1 Box 250                   ______(*)______  Rappelling, and soon...
  Reading, PA 19607                   o/ \o       Sky Diving!

  rehab1!dans@cbmvax.commodore.com -OR- {uunet,rutgers}!cbmvax!rehab1!dans
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: jornand@sci.kun.nl (Jornand Runneboom)
Subject: Competition 93?
Organization: University of Nijmegen
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 11:47:30 GMT

Hello there,

I saw the results of the F1-competition on this news-group, and I was wandering
if there will be another one the next season. And, of course, how can I participate in it? At what time do you have to send your expectations, and where to?

Thanks in advance,


Jornand Runneboom
University of Nijmegen
The Netherlands
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1: Australian GP on TV
Date: 5 Nov 92 12:00:30 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

Anybody know what time it's going out on UK TV?  I missed the Jap GP coz my 
newspaper hid it in the small print.


  You don't have to work to be mad here      email: d.budd@mcc.ac.uk
  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England   (44|0)61-275-6033
From: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Mansell and Senna
Date: 9 Nov 1992 20:11:26 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, s1072964@giaec.cc.monash.edu.au (SHERLOCKG.Fletcher)) says:

>    Well I don't know about anyone else but I think we have just seen the
>    Senna of old!. That's right, his reckless and unpunished driving has done
>    it again, I was quite annoyed and very PISSED OFF when I saw him just
>    calmly wipe out Mansell and was hoping that Mansell would once and for go
>    and punch his lights out. It's about time someone taught Senna a lesson in
>    how to drive. I think his actions were summed up well by Allen Jones when
>    he said that Senna must have had "brain fade".

I don't think Senna did this on purpose.  ESPN had cut to a commercial
right before the incident.  In this time Senna had gained a lot of ground
back on Mansell and we never get to see what happened.
I think Mansell may have slowed ans Senna was not prepared for this.
Maybe Mansell even had a problem, I don't know, but I don't think it was
on purpose.  At any rate you still have to say it was Senna's fault,
but it wasn't a big one so why are you people making such a big deal
out of this?
From: rgolen@UMASSD.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1 Stuff
Date: 10 Nov 92 00:39:27 GMT
Reply-To: rgolen@UMASSD.EDU
Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.

In article <BxGLC1.5B2@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, svissa@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Sirish Vissa) writes:
>In article <9211091252.AA07676@client47.comlab.ox.ac.uk> Alan.Crowder@prg.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>>
>>Hi racers
>>
>[stuff deleted]
>>But Willy has looked at pre-programmed wings. So when the FW15 gets
>                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>to a circut the car knows the circuit like the driver. The wings move
>                                                            ^^^^^^^^^^
>>up and down hydralically (sp) so to get speed down the straight and
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>[stuff deleted]
>I thought that all moving wings were banned regardless of hydraulically or
>mechanically actuated.. But Alan says that the lawyers have been over the rules and it is possible...
>I know that movable wings are an advantage, but I dont remember hearing
>anything about the FW15 having these..
>  anyone else heard anything?
>BTW Alan, if you dont mind, could you please post any other info you can get.
>     this is really interesting...
>          ciao
>         Sirish
>

Besides the cars mentioned in another posting, another car which had
moveable aerodynamic devices was the Porsche 917 in its 1969(pre-
917 K - Gulf Porsche short tail form). The Porsche 908 also used the
same system in 1968 & 1969.

Essentially at the tail end of the car were two moveable flaps which
were connected to the rear suspension via bell-cranks and rods. As the
suspension unloaded on either side, the flap would be cranked up to
produce the desired down force on each side.                             

As a result of FIA's ban on moveable aerodynamic devices in early 1969
the flaps were made non-moveable for the 69 LeMans. This upset the
aerodynamics of the 917 Long and Short tails considerably. One effect
of this was the death of English privateer John Woolfe when his 917
went out of control as the rear wheels lost contact with the ground
I believe at the end of the Mulsanne during the opening laps.

Once JW Automotive came into the picture, they quickly took hacksaw
to the tail, cut up some sheet aluminum and made a crude tail for
the 917 which was the forerunner of the 1970-71 917K tail. This
short tail version had enhanced stability. Porsche continued to
develop its "long tailed" version for LeMans, but with large
vertical fins joined by a horizontal wing. Interestingly enough,
the special LeMans versions never won the race, and were marginally
faster per lap than their short tailed bretheren.

Ric Golen
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: dp54@mc4adm.UWaterloo.ca (Rob Silcher)
Subject: Re: More Sauber Tests at Barcelona
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 18:14:04 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.061220.13692@neptune.inf.ethz.ch> marti@inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti) writes:
>Last week, Wendlinger clocked 1:21.51 at Barcelona.  Today's daily
>newspaper says that Karl Wendlinger, driving the Sauber-Ilmor,
>clocked a new best of 1:20.04 at Barcelona.  Nigel Mansell's pole
>time at the GP in May was 1:20.19.
>

I don't know about you guys but I find this to be very encouraging. Now I'm not
saying that I expect Sauber to be battling for top spot next year but it's nice
to see that they may be right up there with, as someone else said, the Tier 2
teams.

Maybe we'll see the Mercedes badge on it soon enough!

Rob
>-- 
>Robert Marti                        Phone:    +41 1 254 72 60
>Institut fur Informationssysteme
>ETH-Zentrum                         Internet: marti@inf.ethz.ch
>CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland         UUCP:     ...uunet!mcvax!ethz!marti
From: humpty@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Daniel Ong)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Mansell and Senna
Date: 13 Nov 1992 07:41:58 GMT
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: tartarus.uwa.edu.au
Keywords: Mansell and Senna

s1072964@giaec.cc.monash.edu.au (SHERLOCK(G.Fletcher)) writes:

>    Well I don't know about anyone else but I think we have just seen the
>    Senna of old!. That's right, his reckless and unpunished driving has done
>    it again, I was quite annoyed and very PISSED OFF when I saw him just
>    calmly wipe out Mansell and was hoping that Mansell would once and for go
>    and punch his lights out. It's about time someone taught Senna a lesson in
>    how to drive. I think his actions were summed up well by Allen Jones when
>    he said that Senna must have had "brain fade".
>        I can only look forward to the Indy races now as the only thing that
>        would keep me watching F1 is Mansell doing a complete turnaround and
>        going back to Williams, Senna being banned for life, and Prost be
>        told to piss off and made to drive a Jordan.


>    OK flame me if you want but I don't care, as far as I'm concerned F1 has
>    lost one of the(if not THE) best drivers in the world. And this is totally
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  HA HA!






Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: drhall@b8.b8.ingr.com (Dave Hall)
Subject: Re: Petty's numbers
Summary: WHy hillin in 42
Organization: Intergraph
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 20:43:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.160950.30282@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, jth4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JON T. HUTCHINSON) writes:
> With all I've been reading about the Petty's family race car numbers was it
> just lucky that Kyle got to race #42 Mellow Yellow because I an old race car
> (matchbox), It was the 42 Mellow Yellow exactly like Kyle's but it was being
> drive by Bobby Hillin. I thought because Richard drove #43 and his uncle (I
> believe) drove #44 that Kyle wanted #42.

Hillin drove in relief for Kyle when he was injured.(broken leg)

 =============================================================================
                                          ||
   Dave Hall                              || Opinions expressed are my own.   
                                          || 
   dave@racer.b8.ingr.com                 ||   
   uunet!ingr.com!b8!racer!dave           ||
                                          ||
 =============================================================================
From: danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Senna's an ass!
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:43:41 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

>It would be very
>unsportsman like if Senna took ol Nigel out just to stop him from setting
>another record (most wins in a season).

Nigel would have only extended his record (9 wins in a season) he set this 
year.  

Dan Jones
From: bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: BMW quits the GTCC
Date: 5 Nov 92 20:10:36 GMT
Organization: School of Biological Sciences, University of Bath, UK

In article <184133@pyramid.pyramid.com> danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones) writes:
>David Fuller writes:
>
>>>bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Henry) writes:
>>>> BMW has announced its withdrawal from the GTCC (German Touring Car
>>>> Championship).  [...]
>
>>Perhaps it is time for some good 'ol American iron and some bubbas to liven
>>things up.  Perhaps it's time for Hudson Motor Sports to unveil its entry...
>
>Yeah, there you go.  I'm not too sure about the Hudson (Cannonball will have
>to fill us in here), but how about some Camaros, Firebirds, or Mustangs?  Are 
>they still legal in TCCs in Europe?  I'm not too informed about the touring 
>cars :-( (I guess that would be a good project during the offseason).  
>
>But I do know that they used to be legal.  Richard Lloyd, Stuart Graham and
>others used to campaign some pretty competitive 5.7L and 7.4L G1 Camaros in
>the early '70s.  

The BTCC regulations are basically for four-door saloons over 4.2 m long,
with a 8500 rpm rev limiter.  Unfortunately theres also a 2 litre capacity
limit so you'd have to get a nice big hacksaw and convert a 454 into a V2 !
You could probably also use it for a motorbike engine.


                        Andrew  Henry
Sempre  Gilles                                  bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk
From: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Gilles, Nelson, and Niki
Date: 13 Nov 1992 17:22:08 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, agwiii@fang.att.com (Grayson Walker 660-7949)12/92)) says:

>norm goldberg writes:
>>
>>Fan. Villenueve, Lauda and Piquet were alwas my favorites and
>>unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any one else to replace them. Well
>>maybe Schu and Alesi.......
>
>At time, especially in the rain, I see a lot of Gilles in Jean.  I hope we

Are you refering to to suicidal tendencies?

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: andyw@meaddata.com (Andy Welter)
Subject: That shiftless Mansell (was When you're wrong, you're wrong.)
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:24:52 GMT
Reply-To: andyw@meaddata.com

In article 22031@stsci.edu, lallo@stsci.edu (Matthew D. Lallo   (410)338-4577) writes:
>
>
>This getting tedious:
>
>
Yes, it is... Don't personal feuds belong in email instead of postings?

Of course this could have been emailed too instead of posted too :-)

So, I'll include a tid-bit that marginally relates to the original thread that
started this feud (automatic everything in the next Williams)

In Autoweek (?) Mansell was asked what the hardest thing about getting used
to Indycars would be... to paraphrase, he said: Shifting, I haven't done that 
for years.

---
|Andrew Welter	     |  All views are mine and not |      (513) 865-6822   
|Mead Data Central   |    that of my employer      |      pd&o-ps-ts-dsp       
|P.O. Box 933        |                             |     andyw@meaddata.com
|Dayton, Ohio  45401 |          	           | ...!uunet!meaddata!andyw
From: cf947@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chun-Hung Wan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Adelaide: Senna-Mansell crash
Date: 8 Nov 1992 22:19:40 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cf947@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chun-Hung Wan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Does someone have the full story on how these two drivers crashed.  I did
watch the race but I'm still not too clear on the reasons for the crash. 
As far as I know, Senna's reason was that Mansell outbraked him.
-- 
A motion picture major at the Brooks Institute of Photography, CA
Santa Barbara and a foreign student from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

"The mind is the forerunner of all states."
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: frank@wench.ece.jcu.edu.au (Frank Savaglio)
Subject: Re: Re:Adelaide:Senna and Mansell
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, JCUNQ
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 01:02:56 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.220217.7036@cc.uow.edu.au> ddd@cc.uow.edu.au (David Dodds) writes:

>For those who watched the Walker/Hunt show, wasn't he great.
>For example,

>As the TV viewers were watching from Alesi's in car camera:
>Murray: "Look up Look up the weather is clearing"

>After the Senna/Mansell incident:
>Murray: "And Mansell is running after Senna, I think he has something to say"
>Next shot showed Mansell running away from where Senna was.

My favourite was at the end of the race:

Murray: "and Schumacher will win it!..... " as Shumacher was bearing down 
on the Maclaren

Of course there's the legendary Murray quote when Senna spun right out 
during last year's WET Aus G.P. I quote Walker:

" Spin Spin Spin Round Round Round"


Another Aus GP Walker Gem was while viewing the rear camera shot facing 
back. The lens gets coated with fluid and Murray calmly says:

"And that's just water used to clean the lens. Nothing to worry about" as 
the engine and oil coating the lens bursts into flames.

Its those goofs that make the commentary provided by Murray and James so 
much more enjoyable.

Cheers
Frank
=====================================================================
Frank Savaglio                                   *
Electrical & Computer Engineering
James Cook University                       *         *
                                                   +
Townsville. Nth Qld. Australia

E-mail: frank@wench.ece.jcu.edu.au              *

=====================================================================
From: mjackson.wbst147@xerox.com (Mark Jackson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Drivers' Championships and technology
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:42:54 GMT
Reply-To: mjackson.wbst147@xerox.com
Organization: Xerox Corporation, Webster NY

In article 5GM@apollo.hp.com, johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis)
writes, apropos of active suspensions, semiauto gearboxes and traction
control:

> Oddly enough all three of the technologies. . .are on the
> proposed list of technologies that should be banned.  If by some strange
> quirk of fate the proposed ban gets approved we will be in the peculiar
> position of F1 not being allowed to use technologies that will almost
> certainly be available on street cars costing something like $30,000.

Well, now, F1 is *already* not allowed to use technology currently
available on street cars costing under $10,000; well under, if you buy
used.

I'm speaking of fenders*, of course, as such enveloping bodywork is
banned.

(Half a smiley.  "Technologies" are rather broad categories, within
which individual applications can vary widely in cost, safety, and
effectiveness.  While withholding commitment on any particular issue,
I'd still like to point out that there is nothing contradictory in
adding "appropriateness" or "legality" to this list.)

---
*I think this would be 'wings' to those who speak British rather than
American.

---
Mark <MJackson.Wbst147@Xerox.COM>

  Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
		- Lord Acton, who is almost always misquoted
From: danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Aus GP Stuff
Date: 10 Nov 92 19:48:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: pyramid.184205
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

David Fuller writes:

>"But we feel we've whipped
>the problem, and once the circuits become fully traced with technology
>similar to those which guide robots on factory floors, we can successfully
>eliminate the expense and annoyance of human pilots.  In fact, we've 
>signed up several well-moneyed passengers for the ultimate thrill ride
>in 1994."
>
>Just kidding.  Maybe.

So at what point, between where F1 is today and Dave's F1, does the 
World Championship of Drivers become bogus?  Or has the point already
been reached?

Maybe all of you great fans of technology should think about it.  There
is a place for unlimited technology, but not in a driver's championship.

Dan Jones
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: agwiii@fang.att.com (Grayson Walker (660-7949)(12/92))
Subject: Re: Aus GP Stuff
Organization: American Solutions, Inc., Melbourne, Florida, 32901
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:32:53 GMT

Simon Cocking writes:
>
>Hmmm... correct me if I'm wrong, but if Berger had no fuel crossing the
>line, then surely he couldn't have completed the net 'parade' lap, and I'm
>sure I saw him circulating after he finished.
>
Right you are, Simon.  Berger did complete the parade lap.  
-- 
Grayson Walker                                           CHC, Maitland, Florida 
Forza!                                            Internet: agwiii@fang.att.com
Voice: 407 660 7949               ". . . big brown river . . ." Tuli Kupferberg