HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: black@sybase.com (Chris Black)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: FBI Report on 1991 Hate Crimes
Date: 11 Jan 93 21:53:44 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc.

In article <1993Jan07.125655.27097@convex.com> cgraham@convex.com (Chip Graham) writes:
|>In article <73057@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:
|>>On the FBI Hate crimes report, here's the % breakdown by race and group
|>>
|>>If gays are 2%, then it would still make Jews twice as likely as gays to
|>>be victims of hate crimes. Any explanations?
|>>
|>	Could it be that gays are less likely to report hate crimes?
|>	It's no beig deal to be Jewish and report a hate crime against
|>	Jews, It's no big deal to be black and report a hate crime against
|>	Blacks. 

I would say that this depends very much on which jurisdiction you're in.  I'm
sure there are parts of the country where the cops are racist or anti-semitic
to the point of condoning lynching and Nazi graffiti.

|>	But it's quite different to be gay and have to deal with
|>	homophobic cops, file a report which puts on paper that you are
|>	gay and were harassed for it. It can be very intimidating and
|>	for many people it's just not worth the possible publicity.

I do, however, concur with your point that anti-gay hate crime is likely to be
under-reported.

And, in the end, does it matter how prevalent it is?

Wrong is wrong is wrong.

-- Chris
black@sybase.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: spencer@beam.Princeton.EDU (S. Spencer Sun)
Subject: Re: A not-so-cheery coming out story
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu (S. Spencer Sun)
Organization: Society for Promotion of Entropy in the Universe (SPEU)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:19:01 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.160813.5690@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca>, aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca writes:
>In article <1993Jan11.193511.12374@quantime.co.uk> roger@quantime.co.uk  
>(Roger Phillips) writes:
>> In article <1993Jan11.023510.24076@Princeton.EDU>,
>> spencer@ernie.princeton.edu (S. Spencer Sun) writes:
>> > It's worse to have something (or think you have something)
>> > and end up losing it, than never to have had it at all.
>> 
>> In this case, I disagree.
>> In the short term, it may appear that the loss is worse
>> than the never-having(-thought-one)-had,
>> but I'd hope that from the experience one would learn
>> better to identify what one has.
>
>Agreed; this is an absurd attitude. Everything - EVERYTHING - we have now  
>will one day be lost. Our ability to earn a living, our lovers, our  
>health, our mental acuity, and eventually, our lives. If you don't want to  
>lose anything, better jump off a bridge right now and make sure you die  
>with all your most cherished posessions.

I think what I meant or should have said was, it FEELS worse in the
short term to have something and lose it... or is that misguided
also...

-----
sss / Princeton University Class of 1994 / Department of Computer Science
Ninety per cent of true love is acute, ear-burning embarrassment.
[Terry Pratchett, _Wyrd Sisters_]

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: REQUEST: MOW Update & # for Official Travel Agents
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 02:14:43 GMT


I have placed the list posted of hotels with prices in the QRD/qrd/mow 
directory..

-- 
Ron Buckmire
Association To Save Madonna From Nuclear War [New York Chapter]
11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Another Epithet Discovered (was Re: Do hard times cause hate?)
Date: 11 Jan 93 02:56:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1993Jan11.025626.11155
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

Roger Wordsmith asks:
>Now, something I've noticed here in the last year is a tendency to
>use the word "epithet" as if it necessarily meant a deprecatory
>term, rather than just a neutrally descriptive label (as I
>understand it to mean).  Am I imagining this?

no, you aren't imagining this. The phrase "racial epithet" seems to
come spilling out fairly often. Maybe "racist epithet" would be more
accurate?

What's the technical name for those things placed on tombstones?
Things like "Here lies Aleister age 74, died a bachelor, always merry"? 
Aren't those epithets?

Recently bearded Jess says:
>The negatively associated usage seems to be gaining in popularity,
>and according to the AHD's Usage panel, is not incorrect.

Is this the AHD's Usage panel's way of giving an example of the word
"futility"? At least they claim that a common usage is "not incorrect".
I'm used to language fascists telling people they way they speak
American isn't Correct.

I must confess I have my bias is linguistic rather than grammarian.
Prescriptive language study, indeed. Snort!
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                  Where do you conceal the gun in a bikini?
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Credit Styles
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 22:18:37 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.203305.6024@netcom.com>
stephena@netcom.com (Stephen Arrants) writes:

>...waiting for the stroke and bore puns.....

No such readily available, but at least it gives me an
opportunity to mention the principle of the steam governor:
the more energy you apply to the shaft, the faster the
governor's balls rotate.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
From: albrigh@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas g albright)
Subject: Re: crabs (was Re: Changing standards of female beauty)
Organization: The Cabal
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:20:21 GMT

In article <6JAN93.18093483@enh.nist.gov> aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:

>One reason I love my bunny is they don't get fleas.  If I could only train
>her to stop eating wires, though.

I don't understand. You have a rabbit that eats wire?

-Tom Albright

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
|                                   \                                         |
| INTERNET: albrigh@ucs.indiana.edu  \    I believe in reincarnation, and     |
|   BITNET: albrigh@iubacs           /\   I'm coming back as a pansy.  AGAIN! |
|                                   /  \                                      |
(-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-:
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps)
Subject: Re: Should I be doing this?
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 07:44:46 GMT

mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:
[discussing teasing and voyeurism]
>I have no trouble understanding why women might find this attitude
>annoying and/or disgusting.  It just never occurred to me until
>today that anyone might consider that I'm doing essentially the same
>thing.  [...]

>I'm not going to promise to stop it unless I get a serious request
>to do that, but I _will_ restrain myself.   Some. [ ;-)]  In the
>meantime, I beg your pardon if you've been troubled by any of this,
>and I hope this explanation makes you feel less uncomfortable.  
>(If it doesn't, and if you're reluctant to write to me directly to
>tell me so, I'm sure you can find an intermediary in this group.)

Hmmm.  Mara, I read this post, scratched my head, read it again, started
to followup, canceled it, scratched my head some more, canceled a reply,
and now I'm just perplexed.  I just can't figure out what you're driving
at.  The only thing I can surmise is that you've been having a private 
e-mail conversation with someone who has made you feel a little 
defensive about posting here.  If that's the case, don't be.  Your 
contributions to this group are always thoughtful and intellegent and 
I for one appreciate your perspective here, GLB or O*.  You are one of
those people whose posts I read even in threads I'm not following.

I don't think of soc.motss as queer-only space, just queer-supportive space.
As such you and your teasing are welcome anytime.

And if I've completely missed your point, which is entirely possible: well, 
you were due the compliment anyway.  So there.  :)

Brent
-- 
Brent Capps    (B4) htw-c+(+)g+k+(+)s-e++ | Collars and blindfolds and
bcapps@agora.rain.com (gay stuff)         | bullwhips that sting, these are
bcapps@atlastele.com (telecom stuff)      | a few of my favorite things
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Comprehensive list of Colorado companies?
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 02:18:20 GMT

an104@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ric Helton) writes:


>The users on my BBS, Graffiti (404-972-4999) and on GEnie, the
>national online service (I run the gay rights forums) are asking
>for a comprehensive list of companies and other entities based
>in Colorado, and that they should be boycotting or at least
>contacting about their business practices in the Hate State.

>Does anyone have such? If not, is one being compiled?
Yes, there is a reasonable list in /pub/QRD/qrd/rights/colorado/addresses*
available by anonymous ftp at nifty.andrew.cmu.edu (128.2.35.7).

:-)

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``BOYCOTT COLORADO!''
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
Q. What's the difference between a conservative and a bigot?
A. A conservative attempts to defend his/her prejudices rationally.
From: pfieland@citron.sw.stratus.com (Peggy Fieland)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: A bad coming out story?
Keywords: help!
Date: 11 Jan 93 15:57:21 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: citron.sw.stratus.com

In article <1993Jan8.210920.1280@midway.uchicago.edu> kolt@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>(stuff deleted for brevity)
>Anyway, she and I had lunch today and she said to me, after an hour's 
>worth of other conversation, "Don't discuss lifestyles with Jay."
> (more stuff deleted)
>This is from a really liberal person who I'm sure doesn't consider 
>herself phobic at all. I'm sure she doesn't see her p-o-v as being
>the same hoping-to-sweeep-it-under-the-carpet thing that so many liberal
>type people are guilty of.
>
>Can anyone recommend howI should handle the situation?

This is unfortunately the attitude of many so-called liberal people. 
They're open and accepting right up to the point that homosexuality
touches themselves, their children, spouses, etc.  Personally, I feel
that her attitude is doing her son a great disservice, as it denies 
him the opportunity to know you as a gay man.

Under the circumstances, how about talking all this over with her
and confronting her with it.  I really wonder why first of all
she assumes her 15-year old is "innocent", and second of all why
she wants to keep him that way.  As far as I'm concerned, ignorance
is definitely not bliss -- it certainly wasn't for me.

Do you feel strongly enough about this to talk it over with the son
regardless of how the mother feels, knowing that this may cause a
rift?

Peggy
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: crabs (was Re: Changing standards of female beauty)
Date: 6 Jan 93 20:33:54 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) wrote:
>Fleas, however, definitely bite, and are a good reason not to have any
>pet without a flea collar.

Like flea collars actually work.  Right now I have three cats at home with
fleas literally crawling on the collars.

Last summer the fleas got so bad the dermatologist prescribed Kwell for
me because he thought *I* was infested with fleas.

And Precor is failing miserably, too.

Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson@ocean.dnet.nasa.gov
"Home is where your roof landed" - t-shirt seen in Miami
"We Will Rebuild (tm)" - majority community response to Andrew
"We Will Redecorate" - gay community response to Andrew
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: john@drummond.demon.co.uk (John Fisher)
Subject: Re: Different Strokes (was Re: Changing standards of female 
Reply-To: john@drummond.demon.co.uk
Distribution: world
X-Mailer: cppnews $Revision: 1.20 $
Organization: not
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 15:38:08 +0000

In article <1993Jan10.113432.15915@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

> In article <726654946snx@drummond.demon.co.uk>
> john@drummond.demon.co.uk writes:
> 
> >*I* suggest burning some old tyres in the front garden.
> 
> John!  I've missed your panache in such matters.  Where
> *have* you been?!?

Well, thank you, dear.  Oh, this and that, this and that. 
Out pouring paint-stripper on BMWs, writing "Don't blame me,
I voted Labour" on the fences of repossessed stockbrokers. 
You know. 

Actually, what happened was I went away for a few days on
business, and when I came back there were more than 1000
messages in soc.motss to read, and I thought: Is it really
worth it?  Chuntering through scores of messages from X and
Y?  Of course, there's lots of good stuff here, but was it
worth half a ton of libertarianism for each pearl of great
price?

Anyhow, just at that moment I decided it wasn't.  Then there
was some redecoration to do, then I got a new computer and I
decided to wait till I got my own Internet address, then it
just seemed more fun to play with Civilisation for a bit,
then it was the holiday season and I got Simlife as a
present, and now, finally, I've got hooked up to Demon.  And
my new newsreader follows threads and has kill files, which
will make things *much* easier.  So here I am.

What's more, I'll be able to ftp everybody's pickies.  So
smile prettily...

Actually, the next thing will have to be a respectable modem.
Another 300 or so devalued quid, I fear...

--John
From: kmac@cisco.com (Karl MacRae)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Small grooming question
Date: 6 Jan 1993 21:08:44 GMT
Organization: cisco Systems, Menlo Park, California, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: regal.cisco.com

In article <1hpvikINNq3k@spim.mti.sgi.com> dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>In article <1992Dec29.011524.23560@netcom.com>, foucault@netcom.com (Howard Arthur Faye) writes:
>
> 
>|> Well, actually, a Wahl razor works very well as long as you find
>|> someone to do the honors. I trim my Ken's beard every couple of
>|> weeks, and the Wahl attachments (Numbers 1 through 4) regulate
>|> the length of the hair cut. A '1' will remove nearly all hair
>|> but spares the skin.
>
>Using no guard works much better.

	
	One caution about this however; you have to be careful to adjust 
	the clippers so the cutting part (The vibrating part) is well
	back from the stationary part. I learned this last weekend
	when I used mine to trim my beard; I'd just cleaned and oiled
	the clippers, and failed to adjust them correctly. Which produced
	a lovely rash, and quite a bit of bleeding on my neck. 


>  However, it does leave you a long
>  way from being shiny bald.

	Well, gee, Jeff, I would not call 1/16 inch of hair 'A long way' 
	from being shiny bald. I'd call it "Pretty Fucking Close". =B^)



	-Karl, who may someday work up the courage to try that haircut.



  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
  Karl Elvis MacRae	Software Release Support	Cisco Systems
  kmac@cisco.com -or- batman@cisco.com     415-688-8231   DoD# 1999  FJ1200
  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   "You can't upset us! We're the MTV generation;
				 	We feel neither highs, nor lows."
			-Lisa Simpson
From: jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis)
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:26:45 GMT

In article <C0r3B9.5B5@queernet.org> rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>In article <1993Jan12.071513.26102@netcom.com> cjlee@netcom.com (Caroline Jean Lee) writes:
>>rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes (on pride day):
>>>EVERY CITY IN THE WORLD should observe it on the last Sunday of June.
>>
>>I'm not sure if I seeing America-centrism, Western-centrism, or just
>>plain the-world-revolves-around-NYC-centrism in terms of GLB history,
>>but I sure am seeing some.

>If the first active rebellion against governmental oppression of queer
>folk in our modern history had occurred in Thailand, or the United Kingdom,
>I would advocate celebrating *that* date.  The modern, public gay rights
>and queer liberation movements around the world mark their "coming out"
>at Stonewall.

You've polled everyone of them and they all came up affirmative?
Or did you define "modern" to get the results you want?

Either explanation is fine by me.  I'm just trying to reconcile these
all-inclusive simplistic statements with my knowledge that there's a
_lot_ of diversity in a population of 5 billion across six* continents
and a recorded history of more than 5000 years.

Brian

* I'm intentionally leaving out Antarctica.  LGBs there are free to flame
  me for my short-sightedness when they thaw.
-- 

Brian A. Jarvis,          Rm. 4026, Sidney Smith Hall, Dept. of Psychology,
jarvis@psych.toronto.edu  University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
System Administrator      M5S 1A1  (416) 978-3948
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rwt@stiatl.salestech.com (Roger Terrell)
Subject: Places to do in Freeport, Bahamas
Organization: Sales Technologies, Inc.
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1993 15:21:48 GMT


A cousin of mine won one of these "free" trips to Freeport, Bahamas, and
talked me into going with her.  I was wondering if anyone here could
suggest gay-oriented/-friendly places in or around Freeport.  Actually,
any advice at all about Freeport would be helpful.  Thanks!

Roger
-- 
Roger Terrell
UUCP: ...!uupsi!stiatl!rwt
Internet: rwt@stiatl.salestech.com
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Nominations for best men's colognes
Date: Wed,  6 Jan 93 19:46:03 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1993Jan6.114344.7419@spdcc.com>

Joseph Francis squeals:
[dreck deleted]

Just in the mood to be obnoxiously picayune and more than usually
pointless, eh?  Go bury yourself.

-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Subject: Re: Congratulating (het) parents on their new baby
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 14:32:49 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.214740.3628@midway.uchicago.edu> pmm7@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>for some of us, regardless of sexuality, children are
>an exciting joyous event, no matter how they arrive.  

For some of us its a nauseating event, no matter how they arrive.

>continuation of the species and all that.  

Overpopulation and all that.

><sigh> this is the kind of attitude that proves the fundies
>right about queers being "anti-family".  remember, you were 
>once that cherished baby (in all likelihood) and maybe someday
>you'll have one.  

Oh, you're right!  I'll definitely change my mind about this
so as not to play into the fundies hands.  I think I'll even
start going to church.  

>also remember that there are a lot of queer parents, a minority
>within a minority, who have been known to mind pot-roast jokes,
>too.  

Too bad.  I am anti-family if being for family means following
the mooing herds that trumpet the joys of breeding.  There are
plenty of people on this planet already.

>may you never want (and especially be unable to have) kids yourself.

Don't worry, I'm safe on that score, they're not on the menu at
any of the places where I dine out and the butcher doesn't carry them.
From: black@lester.sybase.com (Chris Black)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Changing standards of female beauty
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:08:15 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.204306.27757@reed.edu>, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

|> and some of us have been glad to find that the person we were with
|> used some sort of moisturizing substance, as it can double as a handy
|> lubricant.

I know you were just kidding around, but . . .

I hope everyone here knows that most moisturizers are death to latex,
and should not be used with condoms.

-- Chris
black@sybase.com
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Date: Sat,  9 Jan 93 15:57:53 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1993Jan9.161014.941@uoft02.utoledo.edu> <1993Jan9.215703.10544@spdcc.com>

Steve Dyer writes:
>Gary Klein writes:
>>[Cologne Hell]
>Believe it or not, this happened to me with George at a bear hug a few years
>ago, when I hugged him goodbye in a friendly way, except that he provided his
>own cologne and his own sweater.

1) I may be mistaken, but I don't think I was expecting a hug,
   or I might have warned you off.

2) I would *NEVER* insult a handsome bear's piss by calling it
   "cologne."  *SHUDDER*

3) While I *am* quite furry, I wouldn't denigrate my pelt by
   referring to it as a "sweater."  

 
() You can't have everything. Where would you put it?
()      -- Stephen Wright
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Date: 6 Jan 93 23:40:41 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Distribution: usa
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <1993Jan6.210052.24687@gordian.com>, mike@gordian.com (Michael
A. Thomas) wrote:

>   All one has to do is replace San Francisco with Hollywood and
> one gets much the same reaction.

*West* Hollywood, yes - to people who live in and around
The Greater La La Land Area.  *Hollywood* means *sleaze* to
Angelenos and Hollywood to everyone else.  And outside of
the Greater La La Land Area, very few would realize that
West Hollywood was a ghetto unto itself.  It, and Palm Springs,
are only "gay" to people in the know, whereas San Francisco
is "gay" to a broader segment of the population.


>   We're here, we're queer, and life's *faaaabulous* in La La Land.
> Well sort of. But I certainly see my share of types that Arne was
> talking about a while back.

But snookums - Arne *IS* a type...

> > There are also
> > more activist-types, or more active activist-types, in San
> > Francisco (*especially* if you include the People's Commune
> > just over the bridge)
> 
>   Er, which one is that? Berkeley or Marin?

Ohhhh, very good, very good.  I started to write "People's
Commune*s* over the bridge*s* -  but, I figured you wouldn't
know about Marin...

>   First off, that place needs some *parking*

Preaching to tha' choir, baby doll.  Preachin' to tha Choir!
You will recall my gripe against the Castro (well, maybe
you wouldn't).  But you CANNOT PARK in San Francisco (the
residents will, of course, demur - but I, who was once a 
resident of the San Fernando Valley, could get from Studio
City to Woodland Hills for naked hot-tub parties in under half
an hour *during* the evening rush; such a feat would be most
difficult for non-residents to even conceive of as within
the realm of possibilities, instead wondering why things
got so terribly bad on the Ventura right around Sepulveda...)

*X*

*X*