HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Eric Zmarzly <eric.t.zmarzly.1@nd.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Meaning of Budo
Date: 13 Nov 92 05:24:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45830
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Notre Dame

I am a philosophy-theology student at the University of Notre Dame.  I am
researching a paper on the meaning of Budo, including all the different
interpretations of the concept and the meaning of true Budo.

If anyone can be of service, please write to me directly at
eric.t.zmarzly.1@nd.edu

Thank you.


Eric Zmarzly
From: scarfman@wam.umd.edu (Jonathan Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Harappa
Date: 6 Nov 1992 21:51:32 -0800
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

William Mayne writes:
[stuff deleted]
>Possibly true, but is the conclusion that any figure sitting cross-legged
>represents a meditator warranted? Chairs are not universal.
>
>Bill Mayne
>
	Actually Walpola Rahula wrote that the western beginner should try meditation from a chair.
	The idea being that the unfamiliar position would be too distracting!

	[source:  _What the Buddha Taught_]


-------------------------------------------------------------
From Jonathan H. Smith       || Cognito Ergo Calvino & Hobbes
Of the University of Maryland||------------------------------ 
in College Park		     ||  
			     || Now Residing in England
"What color is your scarf?"  || At the University of Bristol
-------------------------------------------------------------
From: sitaram@watson.ibm.com (Dinkar Sitaram)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Harappa
Date: 9 Nov 92 07:28:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45665
Distribution: world
Organization: ----

In article <1dc5ubINNs5t@sandman.caltech.edu>, mayne@pi.cs.fsu.edu
(William Mayne) writes:
|> In article <1d9802INNd69@sandman.caltech.edu> sitaram@watson.ibm.com
(Dinkar Sitaram) writes:
|> >
|> >The interesting fact from the viewpoint of s.r.e is that the figure is
|> >sitting cross-legged in meditation*, suggesting that meditative
|> >practices may date back to the Harappans...
|>
|> Possibly true, but is the conclusion that any figure sitting cross-legged
|> represents a meditator warranted? Chairs are not universal.

Indian art is not realistic; figures are normally shown so that their
"body language" expresses their attitude.  Kings are normally shown
standing; worshippers kneeling; people at rest are customarily shown
reclining or with their legs stretched out.  I looked up a book on
Indian art I have and did not find any straight-backed,
cross-legged figures that were not in meditation.  This attitude is
so linked, in the Indian mind at least, with meditation that it would
be surprising to find such a figure that was not meditating.  It
would be similar to having a Playboy bunny standing in a typical
Playboy pose with a look of rage on her face.

Vishnu (one of the 3 major Hindu gods) is normally shown standing or
sleeping; I can't recall any statues of Vishnu seated in a cross-legged
form.  Durga (major goddess) is normally showm sitting or standing
on the back of a lion.  Only figures like Buddha, Siva who are
associated with meditation are normally shown cross-legged.

Of course, this assumes a continuity of Indian culture with
Harappan culture, a topic probably not within the scope of
this newsgroup.

Dinkar Sitaram
From: mw%ki.fht-mannheim.de (Marc Wachowitz)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: means and expression
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:24:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45664
Distribution: world
Organization: Fachhochschule fuer Technik Mannheim

: Thyagi Morgoth NagaSiva
(still seeking for good names? :-) posted a beautyful signature:

: "White people are doing things in reverse.
: They think that by going into the sweatlodge
: or buying drums and rattles, they will become spiritual.
: Not necessarily.  Instead, if you live in a good way,
: you are spiritual.  Then, the ceremonies come
: as a means of expression."
: 
: Rolling Thunder

Now if people could understand meditation in a similar way ---
though not very likely when looking at all this stress of methods and goals.
[And how many interpret "in a good way" as emphasizing good works?]
Just wondering about the art of life ...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Marc Wachowitz, mw@ki.fht-mannheim.de   /  news zombie - reply by e-mail, too
  *  wonder everyday    *    nothing in particular    *    all is special  *
From: mks9e@amsun30.apma.Virginia.EDU (Mustafa Kemal Husein Saiyid)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Indra, Mithra and Varuna
Date: 5 Nov 1992 22:06:37 -0800
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

Could someone kindly explain to me the significance of Indra, Mithra
and Varuna in the Indian Aryan religious tradition?
Thank you,
Mustafa Ssiyid
From: mw%ki.fht-mannheim.de (Marc Wachowitz)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: The kingdom within
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:48:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45663
Distribution: world
Organization: Fachhochschule fuer Technik Mannheim

Rajendra P Sharma (raj@globe1.att.com) wrote:
: 	
: 		Seek God first!
: 		And to seek God look within!
: 		[with a silent mind.]
When the mind is silent, how can there be seeking,
a looking directed within or without?

Or, reversing the question:
When there is seeking, a direction either within or without,
how can the mind then be silent?

Or: What is "mind" in silence?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Marc Wachowitz, mw@ki.fht-mannheim.de   /  news zombie - reply by e-mail, too
  *  wonder everyday    *    nothing in particular    *    all is special  *
From: sitaram@watson.ibm.com (Dinkar Sitaram)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: (none)
Date: 11 Nov 92 05:39:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45822
Distribution: world
Organization: ----

In article <1dh99oINN7o1@sandman.caltech.edu>, tagi@cup.portal.com writes:
|> 9211.07 e.v.
|>
|> Dinkar:
|> ..
|> * I don't have a clear picture of the seal, but it looks close to
|> Padmasana to me.
|> Response:
|> Padmasana?  Any relation to Padmasambhava?  Doubtful.
|>
As Sayan already said, Padmasana is merely the name of a yogic posture.

|> Additional notes...
|> Also, on the 'Gudestrup bowl/cauldron' there is a fascinating figure
|> usually associated with the Celtic Cernunnos.  He is the 'Lord of the
|> Animals' and is portrayed in a semi-meditative pose, surrounded by
|> beings of the wilderness.  On the base is a bull, prominently featured,
|> which reminds me quite intensely of the connections between Shiva and
|> His 'vehicle', Nandi; a bull.
|>
(1) The Harappan civilization dates back to 2500 BC.  I assume the
Gudestrup bowl is much later?
(2) The bull shown on the seal, and Shiva's bull is the humped bull,
a species that I believe is found only in India.  The ordinary bull
is not associated with any deity, I believe.
(3) What do you mean by a "semi-meditative pose"?

|>
|> There are certainly differences between between these figures, but
|> they seem rather minor, and the fact that Indo-Europeans have a common
|> history seems to lead to a number of fascinating similarities between
|> the Celtic myths, rites and cosmology and those of the ancient Indus
|> Valley civilization.
I would like to clarify that most scholars do not believe that
the Harappan civilization was an Indo-European (or Aryan) civilization,
though this is a controversial subject.

The above does not imply that they may not have shared myths; for example,
the story of the prodigal son (found in the Bible) is also found in an
Indian version; either a Buddhist text or the Brihatkathasaritasagara
(Great Ocean of Stories).  While the story is the same, the interpretation
of the story is quite different, and a comparison is interesting.  If
someone has access to the Indian version, I would encourage them to post
both versions; if not, I will post them from memory.


Dinkar
From: Roger Adams <RADAMS@cerritos.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: The kingdom within
Date: 6 Nov 1992 21:48:51 -0800
Organization: Cerritos College, Norwalk CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

In article <1dc63gINNsg2@sandman.caltech.edu>, 
mw@ki.fht-mannheim.de (Marc Wachowitz) writes:

> "Human's bliss is not bound to any particular form.
>  It is reachable by various means.
>  Therefore one should respect other people's way and not insult anyone.
>  Everybody shall keep his/her own way, but see the benefits of others'."
> 
This is especially good advice here.

> "If you think that with going within and with contemplation, in sweet bliss and
>  grace, you would have god more than when working in the kitchen or in the
>  stable, you do nothing different than taking god, covering it in a coat and
>  putting it under a bench.
>  Since who seeks god only in a particular way, takes the way and misses god
>  who is hidden in the way.
>  But who seeks god without form, attains it how it is in itself: formless."
> 

This sounds like good advice for balancing meditation and activity as I
mentioned in a previous post, finding God in activity as well as within.
God is within and without but if the inner eye is not open, one perceives
only through the five senses and remains body-bound. It might have a nice
Zen flavor to say that meditation is no better than changing the oil on 
your car, for example, but eventually the path of selfless activity or mindful 
activity leads to the inner kind of meditation. The life force going outward 
through the five senses to illuminate creation needs to be drawn inward in 
order for the aspirant to contact God within and then finding God within, the 
aspirant finds God everywhere and then (and only then) changing the oil on 
your car is no different than sitting in meditation (ie. nirvikalpa samadhi) 
IMHO and based on the descriptions of nirvikalpa samadhi as being in the 
highest state of consciousness regardless of whether one is in activity or not.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	Roger Adams
	radams@cerritos.edu               To those in whom love dwells,
	Cerritos College                  the whole world is one family.
	11110 Alondra Blvd                             A Hindu Proverb
        Norwalk, California 90650
	USA        		          292 Dwapara :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cwt2@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Charles W Tang)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Buddhist Literature Distribution
Date: 11 Nov 92 18:46:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45825
Distribution: world
Organization: Columbia University

The Saddharma Cakra Buddhist Association (Miao4-fa3-lun2 Fo2-xue2-hui4)
in Flushing, NY is looking for groups around the US that are interested
in distributing free Buddhist literature (in Chinese and English) in
their vicinity.  Most of these books are printed in and shipped from
Taiwan.

For interested organizations, please contact me at <cwt2.cunixa.cc.
columbia.edu>.

We need to know the following about your organization and your target
readers:

1) what language(s) do your readers speak?  Chinese / English / Both
2) how many books (of each title) do you need?
3) do you belong to a related organization, or are you thinking about
   doing this privately?  If you belong to a related organization, what 
   is the full name and address of your organization?
4) your name, address, telephone number, and e-mail address.

Thank you very much.

Since we don't know how many interested parties will be contacting
us, and since the book supply is limited, we can't promise that
every group will get what it asks for.  But since this will be an
ON-GOING project, we'll keep the list of all interested groups
for future distributions.

-Charles


*** Om Ma-Ni Pad-Me Hung *** | "Hey, Charles, have you been 'waiting' all
============================ |  your life?" -- Thao D. "the creature" Vo
   Charles Wei-Ting Tang     | ===========================================
cwt2@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu  | 201 W.72nd St.,#8J, NYC 10023  212/580-5609
From: pjm@isis.cshl.org (Pat Monardo)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: re-examination of dealing with emotions
Date: 8 Nov 92 01:49:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45657
Distribution: world
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs

In article <1dh97lINN7mu@sandman.caltech.edu> MORIARTY@vm1.nodak.edu writes:
>others without dictating an outcome.  Perhaps I am the only one who
>is concerned about the question of time and its relationship to
>the development of sati.  One of the four jnanas if the awareness
>of infinite space.  Does that include time?

time is equivalent to the series of skandhas.
the subtler skandhas relate to subtler notions of time.
even reaching the state of neither perception nor non-perception
involves notions of time although one may consider oneself
eternal and deathless in this state.
even Theravadins state that sati is a result of sati.
mindfuless is thus eternal yet mindfulness implies time
since mindfulness is a dynamic state. the fact that
time is equivalent to the series of skandhas reflects
the emptiness and anatma of time and mindfulness.
there is no soul, only mindfulness. therefore there
is actually nothing that is timelessness and nothing
that is time.

-- 
-- Pat Monardo
-- pjm@cshl.org
From: ruthless@panix.com (Ruth Ditucci)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: NSA, need information and contact numbers/names
Keywords: NSA, buddhism, Namyohorengeykio
Date: 11 Nov 92 00:38:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45668
Distribution: world
Organization: Panix, NYC

Need information on NSA.  Is it a cult, is it/has it become a religion yet?
Is it still called a "practice?"  Need info fast.  Thanks.  I know there's
an NSA center on 12th Street here in Manhattan.  

Need information on personal experiences that "worked."  

Thanks in advance.

--
ruthless@panix.com (Ruth Ditucci)
From: mayne@pi.cs.fsu.edu (William Mayne)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Harappa
Date: 5 Nov 1992 14:07:07 -0800
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

In article <1d9802INNd69@sandman.caltech.edu> sitaram@watson.ibm.com (Dinkar Sitaram) writes:
>
>The interesting fact from the viewpoint of s.r.e is that the figure is
>sitting cross-legged in meditation*, suggesting that meditative
>practices may date back to the Harappans...

Possibly true, but is the conclusion that any figure sitting cross-legged
represents a meditator warranted? Chairs are not universal.

Bill Mayne
From: dorothy@cvedc.prime.com (Dorothy Robinson)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: The Divine Trickster (was Re: Harappa)
Date: 11 Nov 92 18:04:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45823
Distribution: world
Organization: Computervision R&D, Beaverton OR

This discussion of Indo-European mythology brings to mind a question
that occurred to me the other day.  Most cultures seem to have a divine
trickster, who is often also a messenger and wisdom-bringer.  In
Native American traditions it's Coyote, in the Mediterranean complex it's
Thoth/Hermes.  What Hindu deities are tricksters and teachers of magic?

[some included material deleted -a]

> >There are certainly differences between between these figures, but
> >they seem rather minor, and the fact that Indo-Europeans have a common
> >history seems to lead to a number of fascinating similarities between
> >the Celtic myths, rites and cosmology and those of the ancient Indus
> >Valley civilization.  Another good example is (the) Morrigan/Morrigu
> >and Durga-Kali, whose triplicity of form (both Celtic and Hindu gods
> >will, at times, display this quality) brings to mind the Trinity of
> >Christian theology.
> >
> >Thyagi Morgoth NagaSiva

===========================================================================
Dorothy Mokuren Robinson                           dorothy@cvedc.prime.com
     whose opinions are not those of...
Computervision             
14952 NW Greenbrier Parkway, Beaverton, Oregon 97006   Phone (503)690-7861
From: kish@charon.rutgers.edu (Kish)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Harappa
Date: 11 Nov 92 14:21:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45820
Distribution: world
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

> Of course, this assumes a continuity of Indian culture with
> Harappan culture, a topic probably not within the scope of
> this newsgroup.
> 
> Dinkar Sitara

	I think as long as we restricted the discussion to Harappa
religion, then we won't go too far afield.  In particular, this
"proto-Siva" seems very fascinating to me.  I've always had a hunch
that the influence of the pre-Aryan Indus valley cultures on Hinduism,
Buddhism, yoga, etc. has been seriously discounted, mostly through
lack of tangible evidence.  And as my interest in Buddhist tantra
continues to deepen, I'm finding that the influence of Saivism on
the tantric Buddhism which was ultimately transmitted to Tibet is much
greater than I had ever imagined.  To be able to trace this influence
back to pre-Aryan cultures is somehow very satisfying.

	If you don't want to discuss it here, where do you think might
be appropriate ?

Yours in Dharma,
-Bill
-- 

PHONE: (908) 932-5026
UUCP : {ames,att,harvard}!uunet!rutgers!jove.rutgers.edu!kish
INTERNET: kish@jove.rutgers.edu
From: raj@globe1.att.com (Rajendra P Sharma)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: The kingdom within
Date: 6 Nov 1992 21:53:42 -0800
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

Roger [in responding to Cole's comments to roger's original post
       on "The Kingdom Within"] writes:

> .. Jesus taught to seek first the kingdom of God
> (which he said was within) and then all things
> will be added unto you.

> So I would take this to mean that one should seek God first daily
> before going out to engage in activity so that we will do God's will and
> not what we think ought to be done (ie. ego-consciousness).

	Thanks Roger for this clear statement by Jesus.
	We, sometimes, interpret things to suit us.
	As you point out, however, that scriptures ("Bible of any
	religion") are quite clear:
	
		Seek God first!
		And to seek God look within!
		[with a silent mind.]
		
		[Can God really be realized by good actions,
		                               good deeds,
		                               good efforts?]
		
		[Some say: No, God in his infinite mercy
		           reveals her grace to his devotee]
		
		[But who really knows except God?]

	
---raj
From: mw@ki.fht-mannheim.de (Marc Wachowitz)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: The kingdom within
Date: 5 Nov 1992 14:09:52 -0800
Organization: Fachhochschule fuer Technik Mannheim
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

Recently there have been some articles about mysticism (or whatever you like to
call it) in Christianity, together with statements about what to do or not to
do as a "mystic in spe". The following quotes from the Chrisitian mystic master
Eckhart may be interesting in that context.

"Those who mix their work with time and measure, with before and after,
 keep themselves from the breakthrouhg to the best truth:
 standing free and without restrictions, without before and after,
 not burdened by any works, any images, completely in this now,
 always new!"

"Human's bliss is not bound to any particular form.
 It is reachable by various means.
 Therefore one should respect other people's way and not insult anyone.
 Everybody shall keep his/her own way, but see the benefits of others'."

"If you think that with going within and with contemplation, in sweet bliss and
 grace, you would have god more than when working in the kitchen or in the
 stable, you do nothing different than taking god, covering it in a coat and
 putting it under a bench.
 Since who seeks god only in a particular way, takes the way and misses god
 who is hidden in the way.
 But who seeks god without form, attains it how it is in itself: formless."

"
Happyness is near to you, it is within you!
     None of you is too unprepared,
     unskilled or ignorant for it -
        all can find happyness
          within themselves;

        in it's whole virtue,
         as joy and insight,
            everybody can
           experience it -
                 now.
"

[Eckhart's works are often liked by Zen Buddhists (e.g. D.T.Suzuki wrote a lot
 comparing the concept of "nothing" in Buddhism with that used by Eckhart),
 so IMO this is appropriate for s.r.e. - and the meaning is beyond artificial
 boundaries of specific religions, anyway]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Marc Wachowitz, mw@ki.fht-mannheim.de   /  news zombie - reply by e-mail, too
  *  wonder everyday    *    nothing in particular    *    all is special  *
From: raj@globe1.att.com (Rajendra P Sharma)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: The kingdom within
Date: 11 Nov 92 14:49:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45821
Distribution: world
Organization: AT&T

Marc writes [>]:

[in responding to raj's comments [> :]

> : 		Seek God first!
> : 		And to seek God look within!
> : 		[with a silent mind.]


> When the mind is silent, how can there be seeking,
> a looking directed within or without?


Yes, nothing can be said about the silent mind, neither what I have said
nor what you have said. But, indeed we both are saying. To understand
this apparent contradiction, the following analogy may be helpful.

In the darkness of a dark night, one can't see. The moon comes up, and
then, one may see somewhat. Now, the moon has no light of its own and
it merely is reflecting the Sun's light (the true source of light).
When the Sun rises up, the moon may also be seen in the sky, but,
one does not need the moon to see anything now, since the original source
of illumination is already there.

So is meditation (or silent mind). The experience is like that of deep
sleep and nothing can be said about it: neither that there was meditation
nor there was no meditation, neither that one existed nor that one didn't
exist, neither that there was a mind to be silent nor that there was no
mind, etc. one, however, comes out of it [we are typing this up (about
silent mind etc.) is a proof of this fact]. But, this typing and talking
is like a moon seen in the sky when the Sun is also shining.

That's why it's said: mere words, philosophy don't help; the "experience"
alone helps. [the difficulty again about there being no experience,
no experiencer, etc; but, the "experience" will cure this.]


> Or, reversing the question:
> When there is seeking, a direction either within or without,
> how can the mind then be silent?


Indeed the "silent mind" is beyond the "mind" and "no mind." [within and
without] In fact, the concepts of "concept," "fact," and "beyond" are ...

> Or: What is "mind" in silence?

To satisfy one's curiousity, one may say: the silent mind is the

	- Pure mind
	
	- Original mind
	
	- no mind
	
	- not-seeking mind
	
	- mind as it truly is
	
	- Nirvana
	
	- Christ
	
	- Buddha
	
	- natural mind
	
	- Self
	
	- Tao
	
	- Great Spirit
	
	- Allah
	
One may pick any one of the above, depending upon one's cultural
upbringing (shall we say conditioning?), natural inclinations,
time of the day, phase of the moon, the teacher one is following at
the moment, etc.


---raj