HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: DPierce@world.std.com (Richard D Pierce)
Subject: Speaker facts, was Re: What do you think about....
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:55:51 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.174250.1266@uoft02.utoledo.edu> brieck@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>
>Also, I have heard quite a few people talking about the Advent speakers,
>and I saw a pair of Laureates today. I thought they sounded OK, but the
>paper speakers worry me.....won't the paper type wear out before the
>polypropelene (sp?) type will? 

There is no evidence to suggest that paper has a shorter life than
materials such as polypropylene. In fact, I have never in my life seen a
cone wear out. I have seen paper cones from AR and Advent speakers made 20
years ago that were the same now as they were then.

However, there are other differences that are more important. Paper is
used in loudspeaker cones because it's a relatively inexpensive material.
It can be made to exhibit certain properties that are okay for loudspeaker
use. Paper suffers from several significant propblems, though. First and
foremost is the fact that paper, being made of pulp fibers, exhibits the
same hygroscopic properties as wood. It absorbs and releases water
depending upon the ambient relative humidity. And the mechanical and
acoustical properties change rather dramatically.

And, secondly, those properties are less than ideal under ideal
circumstances anyway. While paper is convenient and inexpensive, it's not
that good a material for loudsoeaker cones. It has far from the ideal
combination of stiffness, internal damping and so forth. And it's
difficult to get any sort of consistancy in manufacturing.

So paper, out of the gate, has problems. It doesn't need to wear out.

>I was also told that one sign of bad speaker design is when the woofer
>moves quite a bit a low/medium volume. I notice that these really
>did!....Should a woofer be "tight" in a good speaker? 

This is wrong. Simple inspeaction simply tells you that the woofer is
flopping around, nothing more. There may be quite a few reasons for it,
some good, some bad. Bass reflex (vented box, whatever) designs tend to
have this property due to the fact that the woofers have less controlling
stiffness below the cutoff frequency. However, at and around the cutoff
frequency, their motion is far less than a sealed box system, and is one
of their advantages (presuming the engineer designed it right, no gaurantee).

-- 
|                Dick Pierce                |
|    Loudspeaker and Software Consulting    |
| 17 Sartelle Street   Pepperell, MA  01463 |
|       (508) 433-9183 (Voice and FAX)      |
From: bill@bilver.uucp (Bill Vermillion)
Subject: Re: MiniDiscs -- What Are They?
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:35:36 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.094857.28481@nntp.nta.no> harald.ljoeen@nta.no writes:
>In article <24645@alice.att.com>, jj@alice.att.com (J. Johnston) writes:
>>I disagree that the differences are likely to be due to the DAC.
>>Some differences, perhaps.  BUT try recording a pulse train at
>                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>630 Hz or so, or a set of non-harmonic tones spaced about 750 Hz
>                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>apart, starting in the 690Hz range, or white noise, or something that
>                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^     
>>moves rapidly (i.e. on a 2ms basis) between the two channels,
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>or so on.
>
>Some people's musical taste is strange, indeed!

When I worked in the studio, the booking agent always insisted
that during the lunch break I'd go into the control room, turn
on a 1000Hz tone, and listen to that while I ate :-)


-- 
Bill Vermillion - bill@bilver.oau.org  bill@bilver.uucp
                - ..!{peora|tous|tarpit}!bilver!bill
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: kong@leland.Stanford.EDU (Kong Kritayakirana)
Subject: Why early CD players sound bad? 
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 17:14:41 GMT

Well, some theoretical stuff. Those of you who dont believe that at least some
audible differences can be explained can just ignore this article.


Why early CD players sound bad:
-------------------------------

Earlier DAC chips are not as good as ones being used today. This includes.

1. Supports no oversampling or low oversampling rate.
2. Does not have enough resolution (some early CD player uses 14-bit DACs)
3. Even if it had enough resolution (16 bit input), it still does not have
   matched linearity and still has monotonicity problem. You can feed it
   16-bit or 18-bit word but look at the pathetic output...
4. Low oversampling can rolloff high and requires the use of higher order
   analog filter to screw it up even more. Here's a little table:

   Times Oversampled      High Rolloff @ 20kHz		1st "ghost attenuation"
   -----------------	  --------------------	 	-----------------------
	   1 (No)		-3.168 dB			-04.79 dB
	   2			-0.748 dB			-11.40 dB
	   4			-0.184 dB			-18.05 dB
	   8			-0.046 dB			-24.47 dB
	  16			-0.011 dB			-30.71 dB

   NOTE: Analog low-pass NOT included. Usually different designers have 
         different philosophy about the use of their analog LPF.

5. Early CDs sound bad. Try them with state-of-the-art CD player today and 
   they still sound bad. (Kinda side issue though :)  This is because:
	5.1 old ADCs are bad. Talked about it already.
	5.2 old mastertape are mastered for vinyl cut and some eq thrown in
            to compensate loss at some freq which is not applicable to CD.

Additional Comment/Rejection/Whatever welcome. Please email.

Kong Kritayakirana (kong@leland.stanford.edu)

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: ryo@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Ryo Inoue)
Subject: Re: 50 vs 60 Hz problem overseas ?
Reply-To: ryo@oakhill.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin, Texas
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:27:26 GMT

>I would like to bring back a CD player back to Europe 
>and some friends told me the frequency difference 
>(60 Hz here and 50Hz in Europe) can cause some problem.

>Anybody agreeing/disagreeing on this ?

I have used audio equipment made for US specs (115V 60Hz)
in Japan (100V 50Hz) and viceversa, always using a
step-up or step-down transformer.

As far as frequency goes, a 50Hz frequency is more demanding
on a transformer than 60Hz. Fortunately many manufacturers
put 50/60Hz transformers in their units. For a CD player,
I do not think that this should be a problem.

However, if you have a power amplifier, I would recommend
checking that the transformers can operate at 50Hz. A 60Hz
unit might run hotter than normal at 50Hz.

If you have a turntable with with an AC motor (ie AR ),
then you'll need a new pulley to operate at 50Hz.

I hope this information is useful and welcome any
corrections from netters.

Ryo.

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: thrax@iastate.edu ()
Subject: Query: Where to buy speaker drivers.
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 20:21:27 GMT

I am wondering where to get drivers for my speaker projects.  I have catalogs
for places like MCM and Parts Express, but I am curious about other places to
get raw drivers.  I enjoy building my own speakers, and need new sources. 
Of special interest right now is somewhere to get compression drivers for
horns.  

Any information would be much appreciated.

Thanks...

thrax@iastate.edu








Xref: sparky rec.audio:19247 rec.video:16286
From: dna@ampex.com (David Altekruse)
Newsgroups: rec.audio,rec.video
Subject: Re: Sony TA-E2000ESD DSP A/V Surround Preamp
Date: 22 Jan 93 21:15:36 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Ampex Corporation, Redwood City CA

Mark Bramblett writes:

>What I meant to say is that on the TAE1000ESD, equalization and dynamic
>range expansion/compression is disabled.  So if you have refined an
>equalization curve that works for your room set up, you cannot take
>advantage of it when you are in DOLBY SURROUND mode.  I was curious if
>this design limitation had been removed in the new model.

The TA-E2000ESD lets you combine equalization on the front, center, and rear
channels (as well as all other DSP functions) with Dolby Pro-Logic Surround.

- David Altekruse, dna@ampex.com
From: brendan@otc.otca.oz (Brendan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: CD vs. LP again (was Re: Preamp and Amp)
Date: 22 Jan 93 02:55:54 GMT

in article <1190790@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com>, kurts@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Kurt Strain) says:
> I can get a 30 year old record to bring out more details and be smoother 
> and more quicker on the attack than any CD I ever played through any player
> I've heard.

Yeah, I can get a 30 year old CD and bring out more details and be smoother
and quicker on the attack than any LP I ever played on any LP player ever
built :-).

It's amazing how many LPhiles want to crucify digital on first listen in 1983
or even 1993, when they've progressed from edison wax cylinders to shellac to
vinyl over a 100 year period.

How come vinyl is better than edison wax cylinders?  The way I read it,
audiphiles seem to think every technology advance is a step backwards.  It's
not as good as the good old days.  Can you get Sting's "The Soul Cages" on
edison wax cylinders?  No?  Jeez, you guys must be really upset.

Is it more than a coincidence that the favoured format of any audiophile is
the one they grew up with?

-- 
Brendan Jones  | ACSnet:  brendan@otc.otca.oz.au               | This space
R&D Contractor |   UUCP:  {uunet,mcvax}!otc.otca.oz.au!brendan | for lease
Network Access |  Phone:  (02)287-3128    Fax:  (02)287-3299   | pending new
|||| OTC ||    |  Snail:  GPO Box 7000 Sydney 2001, AUSTRALIA  | .sig
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Subject: Re: Comments on analog music
Reply-To: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 20:35:51 GMT

In article <3340422@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, kirk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk Lindstrom) writes:
|> >Why do I like it more ? Well, it sounds more like my recordplayer (not only
|> >the Linn CD, but also other brands). So what did they do ? Put a lot of
|> >LP distorsion on the discs, or a special 'analog distorsion' circuit in the
|> >players ?
|> >
|> >Sture
|> ----------
|> Well, what I think has happended is you might have gotten some CDs that
|> were mastered properly.  A few yrs ago, I blew my brother away by
|> walking into a room at my house when he was visiting and listening to
|> some of his rock CDs on my old system.  10 seconds and I'd say "sounds
|> like an analog mastering".  He'd pick up the CD jewel box and drop his
|> jaw and say "how could you tell?"  I'd say "sounds like shit".  Most of
|> the CDs he owned were CDs of his favorite rock records.  Few that I heard
|> sounded very good when they were transferred to CD.  They are getting
|> better now.  Furthermore, I owned many "LaserLight" CDs of
|> classical music that I'd purchased for $3-$5 each and they sounded bad
|> to my ears also.  I then started to get CDs made by GRP and Schefield
|> and could hear that they knew what they were doing.  Even now I'm leary
|> of buying CDs unless I trust the engineering:  GRP, Chesky, Schefield
|> and Telarc though I think the first 3 are "more musical" as a whole at
|> times.  I've heard some good remastering done on the "Verve label" that
|> I'll probably start buying also (Joe Henderson).
|> 
|> Anyone agree and have other labels that are pretty sure bets to be well 
|> mastered?
|> 
|> Kirk out
|> 

Agreed. There are lots of horror stories about the early days of
CD when companies would find a 'master' tape and rush it out on CD.
There were some complete disasters. Some of the tapes were backups
and several generations old and not the original masters. I heard
of some that were done using master tapes that had RIAA equalization !
Ouch ! 

Thats why artists started taking an interest in reissues - the record
companies didn't care about shipping a quality product. Thats why nowadays
you'll see more reissues where the artists were involved in finding 
the master, restoring the quality, and lovingly mastering them.
Santana's Lotus reissue is a case in point. Santana was personally involved
and it is an excellent reissue.

Some of my early CDs such as The Cars (first album), Golden Earring's
Moontan, etc. are such pieces of junk.

Nimbus has Classical and Indian Classical recordings of exceptional
quality. They are recorded using the Ambisonics microphone system.
From: cjd8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher J de Zorzi)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: SONY STR-990 Problem.
Date: 23 Jan 93 18:48:29 GMT
Reply-To: cjd8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher J de Zorzi)
Organization: Columbia University


Okay, I've heard about lotsa probs with the 990, has anyone out there
experienced this one:  High pitched whine (like that which comes from a 
television/CRT), really annoying, that will NOT go away, even with all inputs
unplugged.  Only comes out of the right front speaker jack, it ain't the 
speakers, other components, etc.  It is the 990.  I took it back, and it will
be in the shop 2 weeks Monday, stil no word from them...  Has anyone out there
From: brendan@otc.otca.oz (Brendan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Well mastered CD labels (was Re: Comments on analog music)
Date: 28 Jan 93 02:46:05 GMT

in article <3340422@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, kirk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk Lindstrom) says:
> Anyone agree and have other labels that are pretty sure bets to be well 
> mastered?

I always thought that Nimbus in the UK did a pretty good job of mastering
CDs, but I *do* have tin ears, so check for yourself.

-- 
Brendan Jones  | ACSnet:  brendan@otc.otca.oz.au               | This space
R&D Contractor |   UUCP:  {uunet,mcvax}!otc.otca.oz.au!brendan | for lease
Network Access |  Phone:  (02)287-3128    Fax:  (02)287-3299   | pending new
|||| OTC ||    |  Snail:  GPO Box 7000 Sydney 2001, AUSTRALIA  | .sig
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: Jonas.Palm@orgk3.lu.se (Jonas Palm)
Subject: Re: CD vs. LP again (was Re: Preamp and Amp)
Followup-To: rec.audio
Organization: University of Lund, Sweden
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:38:49 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.050702.7864@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz>,
stuartw@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Stuart Woolford) wrote:
> 
> Tell me, people, what kind on channel seperation can ANY ( at ANY price )
> practical LP system get ??. I will not mention the figures that I have
> heard, but they are not impresive, and many 10's of db below that of
> even quite cheap CD.
> 
> A common method of 'widening' a sterio image is to add an amount of each
> channel to the other, often phase shifted. SOME people seem to like the
> effect ( it is normally found on VERY cheap tape decks.. ), but it
> could not be considered even medium-fi.
> 
> Perhaps you can see why I laugh when I read of people who find the 'sterio
> image' of LP systems much more 'transparent' and 'detailed' than that
> of CD.
> 
> just thought I'd throw that into the 'discussion'.. :-)
> 

Actually, according to my admittedly dim memories of a JAES article
I read long ago, 20 dB of channel separation is usually (or was it
always) perfectly adequate (as in indistinguishable from more 
separation using music as testsignal).

The stereo separation of LPs is generally sufficient, if numerically 
unimpressive. Perhaps 35dB with a _good_ pick-up and optimal frequencies.

If the added illusion of space brings your living room experience closer 
to what you would hear in an actual hall, isn't that what you want, even
if it objectively is a result of 'distortion'?

Not that I feel that this effect should be arbitrarily added by the 
replay equipment.

                                          
                                     Jonas Palm
From: rsud@sw.stratus.com (Rajiv Sud)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: CD vs. LP again (was Re: Preamp and Amp)
Date: 25 Jan 1993 15:31:12 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ernie.cac.stratus.com

In article <00966FE6.57D163E0@vax.nott.ac.uk>, cczjct@vax.nott.ac.uk writes:
> Im a bit fed up of this CD/LP argument. No matter what anybody thinks
> DIGITAL is the source of the future. Eventually you LP freaks (and me)
> will have scratchy records and no way of replacing them, so youd better
> get used to the idea of Digital. I also own a CD player, nothing fancy
> just middle of the range, whats the point of buying expensive equipment
> when the format is still evolving, and remember the analogue format is
> dying. There that sums it up, I think....


	Granted. However, thanks to all of us who are not willing to
settle for slop, digital has been getting better. In the next few years
I actually look forward to a digital system that sounds good (I hope).
In most other venues such as food, etc. I still have a choice and can
avoid "slop". I'd hate to be stuck with a format thats aimed at and
no better than mediocre.

..Rajiv
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: Frank@mindlink.bc.ca (Frank I. Reiter)
Subject: Re: AV Receiver Recommendations
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:08:07 GMT

> Fred Trusell writes:
>
> My friend brought home a Sony 1090 this weekend and the rear channels died
> after 15 minutes.  It does look to be a very flexible piece of equipment
> when it functions properly.

In terms of features they just may be the best on the market.  I was very
disappointed when I took back my 990 because of problems.  I have a Yamaha
850 arriving any day now.  A big step down in features, but hopefully a big
step up in quality.

Frank.
--
___________________________________________________________________
Frank I. Reiter                 Internet: Frank@mindlink.bc.ca
MIND LINK! Communications Corp. Surrey, British Columbia, Canada
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: DPierce@world.std.com (Richard D Pierce)
Subject: Re: MUSIC of THE DIVINE MASTERS
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:15:27 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.192632.3325@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:
>
>     The "ECKANKAR" Organization, referred to in the following article, has
>been producing some of the MOST BEAUTIFUL MUSIC that I have ever heard!  This
>includes the audio cassette tape albums "Songs of the Golden Heart", "Dance of
>the HU", and "Come Share the Dream".
>                             THE DIVINE MASTERS       

<lots of inane banter deleted, having nothing whatsoever to do with audio>

>                                           Robert E. McElwaine
>                                           2nd Initiate in Eckankar

Mr. McElwaine has spread his manure in quite a few other newsgroups. In
sci.space.shuttle, for example, he has the original shuttle COlumbia
flight being shot down by the Russians and crash-landing in Siberia. NASA
immediately builds a replacement, to be piloted by cloned replicants of
John Young and Robert Crippen. The shuttle, by the way, was launched from
the back of the 747 carrier directly into orbit. (Oh, and I forgot, the
Russians shot down the shuttle with levitated cosmosphere balloons, built
to support the Bolshevik war against the aliens currently raging on the moon).

In these articles he promotes himself as having a physics degree (an MS I
believe).

This guy is a complete fruitcake. We have enough noise cluttering the
network without his kind of nonsense. There are plenty of newsgroups that
are suitable for what he has to say. rec.audio is NOT the place for this
sort of lengthy self-delusional posting.

I make a personal appeal to Mr. McElwaine to refrain from further postings
of this sort in this newsgroup. If not, the flamewar that results here
will make the ones on the other newsgroups look like a campfire.
-- 
|                Dick Pierce                |
|    Loudspeaker and Software Consulting    |
| 17 Sartelle Street   Pepperell, MA  01463 |
|       (508) 433-9183 (Voice and FAX)      |
From: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: DAT, DCC and MD
Date: 23 Jan 93 23:45:17 GMT
Reply-To: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua NH


In article <93022.183052U21187@uicvm.uic.edu>,
John Schulien <U21187@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
|>
|>Also, I remember reading that DATs could be duplicated by contact printing.
|>Is this true, or did they run into problems?)

I've always heard just the opposite--DATS could NOT be duplicated by contact
printing, and that is a major reason why there are so few pre-recorded DATs
around.

--PSW
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: ledzep@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (carl.w.muhlhausen)
Subject: Re: Comments on analog music
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:54:19 GMT

>of buying CDs unless I trust the engineering:  GRP, Chesky, Schefield
>and Telarc though I think the first 3 are "more musical" as a whole at
>times.  I've heard some good remastering done on the "Verve label" that
>I'll probably start buying also (Joe Henderson).
>
>Anyone agree and have other labels that are pretty sure bets to be well 
>mastered?
>

Dorian - Try Mousorgsky's (sp?) "Pictures at an Exibition" transcribed
for organ. Best with speakers that go real low.
I've had mixed results with Delos and Nimbus.

I'm not familar with GRP. What kind of music do they have?
>Kirk out
>

Carl Muhlhausen		"Kum wit me iff you vant to liff"
att!taz!ledzep		 
Newsgroups: rec.audio,rec.video
From: dav@gtc.com (David L. Markowitz)
Subject: Line-level audio volume control
Keywords: audio, volume
Organization: Genisco Technology Corp.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 01:34:02 GMT


I am looking for a simple, inexpensive volume control that can be
placed between a line-level source and an amp using standard RCA audio
connectors.  Ideally, I would like a remote control for this, but this
isn't required.

Please email all suggestions.
-- 

	David L. Markowitz
	Solaris Systems Division - Genisco Technology Corporation
	dav@gtc.com