HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:12:50 GMT

In article <36964@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> lbs@madeira.phys.ufl.edu (Lech
Borkowski) writes:

>In article <1992Sep3.124337.16897@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
>saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:

>>In article <87748@netnews.upenn.edu> kkniaz@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
>>(Krzysztof W. Kniaz) writes:

>>>                                                   But your statement
>>>supporting the name of "Polish Death Camps" is an insult to both Jews
>>>and Poles who were killed by Nazis.

>>To Poles, especially those with revisionist motives, it certainly is.  To
>>Jews ... NOT!
>>Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com

>  Very, very interesting.
>This subject is a very serious one. Accusing someone of a genocide
>is no small thing. Back your claims with proofs. The legal procedure
>in civilized countries is such that if you accuse someone of a crime
>you should provide proofs of the crime: who, were and when.

I have NOT accused the Poles of genocide.  (Should I have?)  Your method
of building an argument on something that was never said is amatuer at
best, revisionist (and revolting) at worst.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk (Stephen Phillips)
Subject: Re: S H O F A R for Rosh Hashana
Cc: stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk
Reply-To: stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 13:21:00 +0000


> +From         : ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
> 
> The shofar for rosh Hashana should be a Ram Horn , unless you can't
> find one when you can use horns of goats and other animals ( but don't
> use a cow = or an Ox horn).

The criterion is whether or not it is a "Shofar" (a horn that is
hollow inside) as opposed to a "Keren" (a horn which is not hollow).
Thus, the horns of cows and deer are wholly bone and cannot (as you
say) be used.

A ram's horn is to be preferred as it reminds us of the Akedah. The
shofar must also be bent, the reason being that it represents the
bending of our hearts towards Heaven. The use of a ram's horn is only
a minhag, and therefore if one has the choice between a ram's horn
that is straight and another type that is bent, one should use the
bent one.

> Get one only from a reliable source, many are glued and are wrong,
> If you have one , look that it is long enough - longer than your feast
> - 5 inches is o.k. Look that it has no cracks and holes.
> a single hole is a must :-) .

Funny, mine has two holes (one at each end)! :-)

Seriously though, if your Shofar does have a crack or another hole in
it, show it to a competent Rav as the laws reagrding such a Shofar
are quite detailed and complicated.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stephen Phillips                Tel: 44-895-442141
Burch Phillips & Co.            Fax: 44-895-421231
63a Station Road
West Drayton
Middlesex
UB7 7LR
United Kingdom                  stephenp@compulink.co.uk

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rich@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Rich Schwartzman)
Subject: Hate and Gov't
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 18:27:28 GMT

 thought I'd be making my first post in a different newsgroup but some of the
 threads on scj have been gnawing at me and I'd like to comment.  I've only been
 on the net for a few weeks so forgive me if I'm out of line.

 All of us as Jews, practicing or non, have had to put up with some sort of
 anti-Jewish sentiment.  It may have been as minor as a sneer, a physical
 assault, or as serious as the camps.  But sometimes when reading the posts here,
 I get the feeling that some folks are just trying to debate the
 existence/non-existence of antisemitism, or trying to prove which segment of our
 population  has had to put up with the most.
    
    Anti-Jewish sentiment, just as anti-any group sentiment, will never be
    legislated out of existence.  It can be swept under the rug for awhile, but no
    government will ever be able to eradicate such stupidity.

    Making laws called "Hate Crimes" is  also foolish.  If my WASP neighbor is
    mugged without being called names, he is no less mugged than I am even if I'm
    being called a kike during the attack.  The crime of assault is the same in both
    cases.  A smashed face and broken ribs are no more, or less, serious because of
    an attacker's ethno-centric motives.

    Jewish ethics hold, "that which is hateful to you, don't do to your neighhbor."
    Libertarian principals say it is immoral to initiate the use of force or fraud.
    I am committed to both of those principals because I see them as saying the same
    thing.  Let's not look to government for relief from hatred.  Let us instead be
    strong enough as individuals and as a group to make the haters think better of
    initiating any violence.

    Thanks for letting me vent.

    Peace and liberty to all.

    Richard B. Schwartzman
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Law of Return) who had converted via a Conservative Bet Din?
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:50:13 GMT

In article <88895@netnews.upenn.edu> rubinoff@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Robert Rubinoff) writes:
>In article <92255.45631.L630191@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM> L630191@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
>>I was always taught in Hebrew School/Yeshiva that once a Jew, always a Jew;
>>and that it is impossible to convert away from Judaism. [...]
>>BUT, there was a case in Israel in the last few years.  A man who had
>>'converted' away from Judiasm wanted to make aliyah in order to
>>further his missionary activities to get Jews to 'convert' to his
>>religion.  He was born of a Jewish mother, yet the Israeli Supreme
>>Court rejected his application for aliyah.
>
>
>There is no contradiction here.  Someone who is Jewish and converts to another
>religion is still considered Jewish.  The Law of Return, however applies to
>anyone who is Jewish *and has not converted to another religion*.  The law
>specifically includes them in its definition of "Jewish", but excludes them
>via the second provision.  (Note also that the law applies to many people who
>aren't Jewish as well; anyone whose spouse, parent, or grandparent is Jewish
>can immigrate under the provisions of the Law of Return.)

Perhaps this is obvious to most of us, but still should be said:
The Law of Return is a law passed by the Knesset -- the lawmaking
body of the State of Israel.  The Knesset is not in the business of
making religious Halachic rulings.

So we should not confuse the laws of the State with Halachic laws.

Said a bit differently:  The answer to "Who is a Jew for the
purposes of Halacha" is different than the answer to "Who is a Jew
for the purposes of immigration and citizenship under the Knesset's
Law of Return."
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: lbs@tkmhp2.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de (Lech Borkowski)
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Reply-To: lbs@tkm.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de
Organization: Case Western Reserve Univ. Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 09:08:37 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.131250.22603@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>In article <36964@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> lbs@madeira.phys.ufl.edu (Lech
>Borkowski) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Sep3.124337.16897@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
>>saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>
>>>In article <87748@netnews.upenn.edu> kkniaz@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
>>>(Krzysztof W. Kniaz) writes:
>
>>>>                                                   But your statement
>>>>supporting the name of "Polish Death Camps" is an insult to both Jews
>>>>and Poles who were killed by Nazis.
>
>>>To Poles, especially those with revisionist motives, it certainly is.  To
>>>Jews ... NOT!
>>>Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com

>>This subject is a very serious one. Accusing someone of a genocide
>>is no small thing. Back your claims with proofs. The legal procedure
>>in civilized countries is such that if you accuse someone of a crime
>>you should provide proofs of the crime: who, were and when.
>
>I have NOT accused the Poles of genocide.  (Should I have?)  Your method
					     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 You already did by claiming the phrase "Polish death camps" was adequate.
 
>of building an argument on something that was never said is amatuer at
>best, revisionist (and revolting) at worst.

 One thing I learned here is that Sam likes to use words
like "revisionist" as a universal tool. 

>Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com

 Lech Borkowski
From: friedenb@gypsum.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Synagogue Financing
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:37:01 GMT
Reply-To: friedenb@gypsum.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University

In article <4193@rebecca-lillian.bbn.com>, wwalker@bbn.com (Ward Walker) writes:
|> 
|> It appears to me that dues at a traditional synagogue are significantly lower
|> than those at a non-orthodox synagogue.  What are the reasons for the great
|> difference?  

Some Orthodox shuls are privately owned by the rabbi.  Donations cover the
mortgage and expenses. 

This is very helpful to halachic disputes between lay leadership
and the rabbi.  When the "ritual committee" make a halachic decision in 
a Reform or Conservative shul, it is usually binding that the rabbi adopt 
such practices into the service.  If the rabbi owns the shul, then there is
no synagogue or temple executive board (most always non-Rabbis) making 
halachic decisions based on politics rather than halacha. The Rabbi makes 
the decisions, period.  

Rabbi Roth, one of the heads of the Jewish Theological Seminary and 
a champion of Conservative Halacha, is working to have all "ritual 
committeess" be banned from Conservative synagogues for just this 
reason.

Most people who go to an Orthodox shul (but no all people) send their
kids to yeshiva (day school).  Therefore an orthodox shul need not build
an afternoon school and employ teachers, buy materials, etc.

Many Orthodox Rabbis teach at yeshiva as well, and preform religious 
duties as needed.  Therefore they need not command a 6 figure salary (like
the Rabbi at my mother's Conservative synagogue) in order to support
themselves.

Buying kosher meats, giving 10% (ma'aser) of ones income to tzedakah, 
and paying for yeshiva makes up for the difference in dues between 
traditional and reform/conservative houses of worship, I am sure! 
 
Gedaliah Friedenberg
-=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
-=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science
-=-Michigan State University

                   
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Subject: Re: Torah In A Torah Context (was Re: more of ...can of worms....)
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:50:05 GMT

In article <mxrn-mk.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:

>Since Herman Rubin ignored my previous post containing Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan's
>Torah notes explaining the possible sites of the other two rivers
>(I guess it didn't support his preconceptions), perhaps he'd like to try
>this:

>I just returned from a trip to Grand Canyon, Bryce Canyon, and Zion
>National Parks. I saw the locations of vast rivers, long gone. Thus
>the two in the Torah could similarly have disappeared.

Of course the two rivers could have similarly disappeared, but since the
advent of man, and without leving an obvious trace?  The headwaters are 
in a mountainous region, and this has not become desertified within 
recent enough geological history.

>I learned that Cedar Breaks, a massive geological structure of mile-
>high towers and pillars, in a huge natural ampitheater far larger
>than any likely Garden of Eden site (miles across), was only discovered in
>the past century. If explorers could miss that until very recently,
>Rubin's assertion that the biblical area around the source of the Tigris
>and Euphrates "has been thoroughly explored" seems hardly credible
>without more than Rubin's naked assertion.

So how small was the Garden of Eden?  And how much of the United States
was explored to any extent until the 19th century?  In fact, the area
around the source of the Tigris and Euphrates was not that thouroughly
explored before the 19th century, and it is an area which has been near
centers of civilization for more than 5000 years.  

>So let me ask: what's the evidence for Rubin's claim that this area
>has been thoroughly explored?

Possibly one should look at the succession of geography books for this
information.  Also, in the last few years, we have considerable aerial
and space photography.

-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Torah In A Torah Context (was Re: more of ...can of worms....)
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 12 Sep 92 20:36:55 GMT

In <6hvnr2p.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:

>Hardly acceptable in a serious discussion.

Lemmie get this straight - we're supposed to have a serious discussion
about archeological evidence for Gan Eden?  Does anyone seriously
expect that such might exist?
-- 
/|/-\/-\       Amar Rav Nachman Bar Yitzchak:
 |__/__/_/     "P'amim sheadam ba b'sharav
 |warren@      v'rochetz afilu b'mai mishrah"
/ nysernet.org 			Jerusalem
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ward@sun17.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Ward)
Subject: The Location of Eden (Re: Torah In A Torah Context)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:52:21 GMT

[H Rubin wondering why Eden has not been found]

Perhaps the answer lies in 2 Kings 6:8-23.  (Specifically vs. 15-17).

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@itexjct.jct.ac.il (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re:  Isn't it wonderful
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <warren@itexjct.jct.ac.il (Warren Burstein)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 06:20:32 GMT

I've never seen one of these little shuls in which there is only one
person saying kaddish.  Sometimes most of them are.  If all the
people saying kaddish slept there'd be no minyan.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: haber@shark.mel.dit.CSIRO.AU (Yaacov Haber)
Subject: Re: Otzar Haposkim
Organization: CSIRO, Division of Information Technology, Melbourne
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 92 12:38:27 GMT

In article <4158@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
>In article <1992Sep6.051240.133@mel.dit.csiro.au>
>haber@shark.mel.dit.CSIRO.AU (Yaacov Haber) writes:
>
>>
>>A few weeks ago there was a post regarding a Responsa database in Jerusalem
>>that would be available via Internet acsess. This was put together by
>>Otzar Haposkim. Since then I haven't heard anything. Does any one have
>>any information about this. BTW this has NOTHING to do with the responsa
>>project at Bar Ilan available on CD Rom.
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>The price of that is approximately $ 1100  .
>Forauthorize details write to
>    Rabbi Yakov winberger
>       Responsa project
>        Bar Ilan University
>                 Ramat gan  Israel
As I said this is not what I was looking for. The Responsa project has about
300 books wheras the otzar haposkim claims to have 3000 and available on
internet.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rabbi Yaacov Haber, Director                   Home: 206 Orrong Rd.            
Australia Institute for Torah                  Caulfield, Victoria 3161
362a Carlisle St                               Australia
Balaclava, Victoria 3183                       phone:(613) 527-2480 
Australia                                      16 hours ahead of New York
phone: (613) 527-6156                         
fax:   (613) 527-8034                          Internet:haber@mel.dit.csiro.au
                                                       uucp: uunet!ajop!yhaber
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il (ROBERT WERMAN)
Subject: A shofar; answer to requests
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:14:20 GMT


  \  \  \     __
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                             \\\\\\\



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                 Wishing You A Happy and Peaceful New Year 5753






All flames to:

__Bob Werman    rwerman@hujivms.bitnet    rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il
Jerusalem

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Mac David
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 4 Sep 92 05:42:23 GMT

In <185lgaINN449@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> sutin@helios.ucsc.edu (Brian Sutin) writes:

>Is there any difference between shwarma and gyros (the Greek version)?

I think gyros are served with some sort of dairy sauce on them.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire hall		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very cold theft.
 |warren@      But the okra
/ nysernet.org is not concerned at all.
From: rogerp@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Roger Pollard)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 02:06:18 GMT
Subject: Re: Jews in space.
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish

    In article <5589@shum.huji.ac.il> aplebaum@shum.huji.ac.il (Hillel Applebaum) writes:
    >In article <17205@ulysses.att.com>, smb@ulysses.att.com (Steven Bellovin) writes:
    >Is it realy so ? will you have a SHABAT after 6 martian days ? 
    >Will you DAVEN MAA'RIV on martian sunset ?
    >I don't think so.

Many years ago (before the problem became a "real" one) I had heard that
one artifically maintained the time (for halchic purposes) of the place
you left (i.e Cape Canaveral, or wherever else they launch these things from).


===================================================================
Roger Pollard         4US-Q        Santa Rosa Systems Division
                                   Hewlett-Packard Company
phone: (+1 707) 577-4207           1400 Fountaingrove Parkway
e-mail: rogerp@sr.hp.com           Santa Rosa,  CA 95403-1799, USA
===================================================================
until Sept 18th, then at roger@ee.leeds.ac.uk where I cann't receive this group
From: schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu (Richard Schultz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Kashruth of wine
Date: 10 Sep 1992 15:43:48 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <BuDB4v.H3E@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
>In article <18m4nfINN4ik@agate.berkeley.edu> schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu (Richard Schultz) writes:

>>This example brings up my problem with the Conservative approach to halachah.
>>One reason that wine prepared by non-Jews was forbidden to be consumed by
>>Jews was the fear that permitting it would lead to excessive fraternization
>>between Jews and non-Jews and eventually intermarriage. 

>As I recall, the reason for prohibiting such wine was that the batch of wine
>may have been used in heathen religious rites, or that even such rites may
>have been used in the production of the wine.

The reason you give is the one from Talmudic times.  The one I gave is the
one that was given by later decisors.  I don't have the references handy, 
although I could look them up if I cared to, I guess.  But you will notice
that I said "*one* reason", which does not exclude others.

					Richard Schultz
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lms@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Max Stern 310-524-6152)
Subject: Re: Jewish Popes?
Keywords: Jewish pope
Organization: NCR (Torrey Pines Development Center)
Disclaimer: This posting does not neccessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 16:06:26 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.164120.18032@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>In article <1992Sep2.141453.24842@sarah.albany.edu>
>mark@fenris.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger) writes:
>
>>In article <Btv83B.FpF@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca
>>(A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:
>
>>>In article <1992Aug31.133513.23883@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>
>>>jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg) writes:
>
>>>>  Gut Yontiff, Pontiff.
>
>>>Vus ist neies, Pius?
>
>>Pius in peyiss?
>
>And what about that Kippah you always see him wearing.....
>-- 

The following story was told on the late Rabbi Magnin.  For those who
don't know, he was rabbi of Wilshire Boulevard Temple in Los Angeles, a
"Classical" reform congregation, for many decades, and died a few years
ago at ~ 100 years of age.

Well, it seems that a Pope had died, and the cardinals were meeting in
Rome, according to their standard practice, to choose the next Pope.
Filled with the ecumenical spirit, one cardinal said, "We have not had
a Jewish Pope for many centuries [see the s.c.j. thread on Jewish Popes
--ed.].  Let's take this opportunity to reach out to our Jewish
brethren."

"Fine," said another cardinal, "but which Jewish leader has the
appropriate stature for elevation to this high office?"

Well, they brainstormed, and someone mentioned Rabbi Magnin.  They all
agreed to offer him the Throne of Peter, so they placed a phone call.
"We would like to offer you the position of Pope," they told him.

"Hmmm," said Rabbi Magnin.  "I am very honored, but I must tell you
that there is one problem."

"What is that problem?"

"You see, gentlemen, the problem is that _I_ don't wear a kippah!"
-- 

 |\/|  /_\  \/
 |  | /   \ /\                      Max.Stern@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish