From: maj@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: GAZETTE: THE WORLD 'REMARKS' OUR FRENCH-INFLUENCED ENGLISH
Date: 19 Aug 92 12:33:34 +1200
Followup-To: alt.usage.english,soc.culture.canada
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <Bt5wCI.2nB.1@cs.cmu.edu>, clamen@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen) writes:
> 
> Someone suggested I repost this newspaper article to
> alt.usage.english.  Enjoy.
> 
> ---
> Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
> School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
> Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
> 5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 268 5739
> Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890, USA
> 
> 
> -------------
> Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
> From: clamen@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
> Subject: GAZETTE: THE WORLD 'REMARKS' OUR FRENCH-INFLUENCED ENGLISH
> 
> 
> Redistributed with permission from The (Montreal) Gazette, Saturday,
> July 11, 1992.

[Article deleted]

I confess that it was me who made that suggestion. Readers may
also be interested in the views expressed in a response by
Thomas Hood.

<begin quote>

Group: soc.culture.canada, Item 9452   (Current Item Range #9249 - #9498)
Subject: Re: GAZETTE: THE WORLD 'REMARKS' OUR FRENCH-INFLUENCED ENGLISH
From: thood@corvus.matrox.com (Thomas Hood), Matrox Ltd.
Date: 18 Aug 92 05:43:18 +1200

govax@wam.umd.edu (Seigneur Tenebreux) writes:

>Please be very careful about calling variations in relationships between
>words in a language "errors."  They may be "errors" according to your own
>personal internalised grammar, but may make perfect sense in the context of
>another person's grammatical sense.

Error is divergence from the standards.  English has standards.  People
who claim to speak English are in error when they deviate from those
standards.

Quebec English includes a few words imported from French, thus
reflecting the proximity of French-speakers in Quebec.  When
such novelty is truly new (e.g. "animator"), we should embrace it.

However, novelty arising from the mistakes of half-literate people
(eg. "demand" for "ask") should be rejected because it does not
add a new concept to the language; it only sows confusion.

>For example     je demande  /  I demand
>These may have different connotations NOW for most English speakers (well,
>those who know that demander simply means "to ask") but the overtones were
>not always the same.

So?  "I demand" for "I ask" is an error NOW.

>It seems to be a common misconception that people who speak dialects such
>as que'bec English are speaking "BAD ENGLISH"  Nothing could be farther from
>the truth.  It is simply different and serves to convey the intended meaning
>to other speakers with similar usages.

The question is: with whom do you wish to share your "usages"?  Do you
wish to share them with a few ignoramuses, or with the millions of
English-speakers around the world?

Language is useful only when it is shared.  The way to share a language
with the greatest number of people, is to establish standards and educate
the greatest number of people according to those standards;  it is to
promote literacy.  To condone unnecessary divergences is to weaken the
language and hamper communication.

So don't.

Literally yours,
--
Thomas Hood                                                    thood@matrox.com

<end quote>

-- 
Murray A. Jorgensen [ maj@waikato.ac.nz ]    University of Waikato
Department of Mathematics and Statistics     Hamilton, New Zealand      
__________________________________________________________________
'Tis the song of the Jubjub! the proof is complete,
if only I've stated it thrice.'