Newsgroups: bit.listserv.big-lan
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 13:50:06 EDT
From:         BIG-REQ@SUVM.BITNET
Subject:      BIG-LAN Digest, Volume 4, Number 53, Friday, August 14, 1992

BIG-LAN DIGEST            Friday, 14 August 1992       Volume 4 : Issue 53

Today's Topics:

                          Dial in Access Funding
                               Data on CATV
         Re: Converters for 3Com 3c503 nics for use with 10baseT?
         Re: Converters for 3Com 3c503 nics for use with 10baseT?
      talk to us about network support - an organizational framework
          Banyan's enterprise-wide network services for NetWare
                Campus-Wide LAN at Babson In Massachusetts
                     Re: From a Unix Platform BITNET
                    Re: "evil" nature of hubs/hublets

Moderated by John Wobus, Syracuse University

Relevant addresses:
                                  Internet                BITNET
Submissions:              big-lan@suvm.acs.syr.edu     BIG-LAN@SUVM
Subscriptions:    big-lan-request@suvm.acs.syr.edu     BIG-REQ@SUVM
LISTSERV/Archives:       listserv@suvm.acs.syr.edu    LISTSERV@SUVM
Moderator:                jmwobus@syr.edu              JMWOBUS@SYREDU
Anonymous ftp archives:           syr.edu

Note: BIG-LAN is redistributed through many mailing lists at other sites
run by other individuals.  If you subscribe(d) through such a
"redistribution" list, you will need to remember its owner.

syr.edu also has a copy of the BIG-LAN "FAQ" memo (answers to frequently
asked questions) under the path information/big-lan/big-lan.faq

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 11 Aug 92 09:56:17 CDT
From:         THE GAR <GLWARNER@SAMFORD>
Reply-To:     THE GAR <GLWARNER@SAMFORD>
Subject:      Dial in Access Funding

Samford University is considering the installation of a large modem
pool to allow off-campus students/faculty/staff access to our mainframe
and eventually the internet.

This installation will be costly, and we are soliciting suggestions for
possible funding sources for this project.  One option that we are
considering is a situation where we would bill our users for the time
they spent logged in via modem.  We would like to hear what other
universities are doing in this regard.  What price have you found
students willing to pay?  Five cents a minute?  Three cents a minute?

Also, if you have any suggestions regarding alternatives to this
situation, or are offering similar access at your university, we would
like to hear about your configuration and how you have funded it.

Thanks!

 /++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++\
!  Later        +   Systems Programmer                                 !
!  Gary Warner  +   Samford University Computer Services               !
!               +   II TIMOTHY 2:15                                    !
 \+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++/

-------------------------------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 11 Aug 92 09:14:35 EDT
From:         "John R. Stephens, Jr." <JSTEPHEN@UGA>
Subject:      Data on CATV

A short while ago there was a question concerning data on a CATV system.

A story in communications news (received today) offers some hope to overcome
the traditional problems of distance limitations.  Zeneth Electronics Corp.
announced upgraded versions of their Z-Lan product, utilizing previously
unusable bandwidth can extend LAN over CATV to distances up to 30 miles
utilizing token ring or Ethernet.

ChannelMizer @$1995 is required at host and remote site, module for router
$1995.  Interface cards $895-995.

This is a quick summary of the article.  I have now told you more than I know.
For more info Zenith Electronics tel. # is 708-391--7000.  This seems to
overcome one of the major problems of distance.  I would like to see more on
how it handles data and video mixed on standard CATV channels.  In my opinion
to be successful in the CATV marketplace, it cannot interfere with the
standards already established for channel placement, etc.  In effect, it
must be "hidden" to the CATV client.
************************************************************************
John R. Stephens, Jr.-Director        Telephone (706) 542-1582
Instructional Resources Center        Facsimile (706) 542-0518
South Instructional Plaza             Bitnet    JSTEPHEN@UGA
University of Georgia                 Internet  JSTEPHEN@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU
Athens, Georgia 30602-3015            Easylink 62056973   Telex 41-4190
************************************************************************

-------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Aug 92 15:32 PDT
From: Samuel Lam <skl@wimsey.bc.ca>
  From: Samuel Lam <skl@wimsey.bc.ca>
Reply-To: <skl@wimsey.bc.ca>
Subject:      Re: Converters for 3Com 3c503 nics for use with 10baseT?

> We have lots of 3Com 3C503 Etherlink II network interface
> cards on thinwire ethernet.  This card has a thickwire interface as well
> as the "T" bnc connector.  Does anyone know of a manufacturer who produces
> a converter which would allow us to use these 3C503 cards with a 10baseT hub?

Most network equipment vendors sell this type of converter.  It's called a
"10Base-T transceiver".  It attaches to the 15-bin AUI port at the back of
your 3C503 and provides a RJ45 10Base-T connector at its back.  You can
usually get these for under $100 each.

Some vendors which come to mind (in no particular order) are:  Lantronix,
Allied Telesis, Cabletron and Ungermann Bass.  Also talk to your 10Base-T
hub supplier and see what they have.

...Sam
- --
<skl@wimsey.bc.ca>

-------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 07:32:32 -0500
From: "Allen Robel" <robelr@mythos.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject:      Re: Converters for 3Com 3c503 nics for use with 10baseT?

> Hi.  We have lots of 3Com 3C503 Etherlink II network interface
> cards on thinwire ethernet.  This card has a thickwire interface as
well
> as the "T" bnc connector.  Does anyone know of a manufacturer who
produces
> a converter which would allow us to use these 3C503 cards with a
10baseT hub?
>

The 3c503 has an AUI so you can use one of the many 10baseT
transceivers currently on the market.  These have gotten
fairly inexpensive.

We started with David's transceivers a couple years ago.

We then moved to Accton and are currently using CSP
MTCV-1's.  The reasons for moving away from David was
price and size (Accton had one of the first "micro MAUs" on
the market). We moved to the CSPs, again, because of price
and because they have a wonderful set of lights
(including Power, Collision, Jabber, Polarity,
Receive, Transmit, and Link status  LEDs), are a tad
smaller than  the Accton's, and have external recessed SQE
and Link jumpers.  All for around $60.00.

Note that, you can get NE2000 clone 10baseT cards (PC) for
$85.00 (minimum of 10) from a distributer advertizing in
the back of LAN TIMES this month (408)745-0100 so you
might think about relocating the 503s to another part of
your network (that is still thinwire) and buying cards
instead.

regards,

Allen Robel                      robelr@mythos.ucs.indiana.edu
University Computing Services    ROBELR@IUJADE.BITNET
Network Research & Planning      voice: (812)855-7171
Indiana University               FAX:   (812)855-8299

"For every difficult and complicated question there is an answer that

     is simple, easily understood, and wrong" -- H.L. Mencken

-------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 11:34:06 -0400
From: William H. Magill <magill@dccs.upenn.edu>
Subject:      talk to us about network support - an organizational framework

>   We would very much appreciate hearing from anyone else and what they found
>   that is working (or conversely, what you have discovered has not worked
>   well).  Thanks in advance for any comments, suggestions, or cautions.

=====
>          Here at Babson, we're planning to implement a campus-wide
>   network over the course of the next year.  We're connecting MACs, IBM
>   clones and PS/2s (mostly clones) with our existing VAX cluster.
>   Right now, we're looking for "benchmark" institutions (TQM-speak for
>   "people who are willing to talk with us about their experiences with
>   various parts of the process").  We're particularly interested in
>   issues related to *supporting* the network.  If any of you are willing
>   to answer some questions about the way you set up and supported your
>   network, please drop me a note (the sooner the better).  Thanks very
>   much!
>
Define "supporting" the network.

If you mean "supporting the network," then I'm happy to chat away.
If, however, you mean "supporting the USERS on the network" then you
need to talk to the "right part of" the rest of the ISC.

Our structure looks like this...(more or less) - it was created in 1985
and just recently revised.

The University of Pennsylvania has both a President (Chief Administrative
Officer) and a Provost (Chief Academic Officer). My organization is the
"Vice Provost for Information Systems and Computing (VPISC)" which,
obviously reports to the Provost. However, since University Management
Information Services (UMIS) reports to the VPISC, the VPISC has a "dotted
line reporting" to the Executive Vice President.

We have a new Vice Provost (about a year now) and are in the process of
completing a reorganization. So the entire ISC organization contains,
in alphabetical order...

ACS     Academic Computing Services
CRC     Computing Resource Center
DA      Data Administration
DCCS    Data Communications and Computing Services
UDC     University Data Center
UMIS    University Management Information Services

ACS and UDC are new organizations. The UDC is responsible for running the
(just last weekend) consolidated mainframe, an IBM EIS/9000-480 (was two
3090 and a 4348), which provides computing cycles to UMIS, The School of
Arts and  Sciences and the Library Catalog system (NOTIS). The School of
Arts and Sciences is phasing off the mainframe to leave UMIS and the
Library as the users. (You name it, they are going to it - basically
Unix(tm) "things - IBM, NeXT, DEC.)

Additionally there are 3 other "mainframe" centers on campus - all
autonomous, i.e. under control of their respective Deans.

The School of Engineering and Applied Sciences (SEAS) (home to the Computer
and Information Science Department (CIS)) - provides cycles to its students
via a bunch of SUN/4s, SGI, HP, Thinking Machines  and other fun things.

The Wharton School (business) has a pair of DEC VAX 6400s and a bunch of
other dominantly DEC hardware used in supporting its students.

The Medical School has a DEC VAX 8650 supporting its students.

ACS is the newest organization and least well defined. It is an evolving
organization. At the moment, they are just staffing up and coordinating the
various Site Licenses which the University has obtained. Later they will be
"supporting" (whatever that comes to mean) UNIX(tm) for those who don't
have their own support organizations.

The CRC is also restructuring itself. They have historically been a source
for general PC and MAC expertise as well as end user support for specific
"supported" software products. They also operate a number of assorted
training seminars - from  "Bits and Pieces" lunch time (brown bag) seminars
to explicit "All-in-1" or "Microsoft Word" or "Excel" etc. sessions. The
CRC also provides a "walk in" facility where an assortment of different
hardware and software is available for "test drives." Another function
provided by the CRC is the distribution of non-commercial PC and MAC
software "essential" to the University's function - Virus Detection
programs, certain site licensed software configured explicitly (MAC/TCP for
example) things of this nature. The CRC has historically overseen the
basic selection of products sold by the "Computer Connection" in the Book
Store.

UMIS provides all of the Central University Administrative computing
functionality - payroll, account receivable/payable, student registration,
etc.

"Data Administration is concerned with information as a University
resource. The office develops standards for data access, data security, and
the University data dictionary and provides training and consulting in the
use of those standards. Data Administration develops and maintains the
University Data Model, or high-level blueprint of administrative data
relationships. The office coordinates University-wide agreement on data
issues that require consensus or negotiation.

So that leaves us - DCCS - Data Communications and Computing Resources.
We "support" the network.

DCCS is essentially an RBOC - Regional Bell Operating Company. We are
responsible for 110 miles of fiber (and a LOT more copper) that
interconnects 115 buildings on the main campus. We provide service "to the
wall plate." Where the "wall plate" might happen to be, as in the case of
the Engineering School, a single FORIL link from their internal and
self-maintained LAN back to our central cisco router. The last time I
looked, there were roughly 3000 IP nodes in "upenn.edu"

We actually install, operate, and maintain PennNet - run the modem
pools, routers, 'EMPERs, 'ELNIs, HUBs, copper, fiber, tin-cans
and string. Ethernet, async and FDDI are the "fun things" we deal with.
The two T1 regional network connections (PrepNet and JVNCnet) come out
of our budget. The campus backbone is TCP/IP only. We do not route anything
except TCP/IP despite the capabilities of the routers. We require
encapsulation for those that MUST (via things like GatorBoxes, Novell
3.5, MultiNet, soon Wollongong, etc.)

We "only" installed the fiber backbone and building "risers"back in 85,
consequently, we are still wiring individual offices on a regular
add/move/change basis. The Engineering School is the only organization
which "wholesale" wired every  office in their domain.

Since DCCS is essentially a "common carrier" we also operate the Academic
Video Network in the same manner. The Annenberg School of Communications
provides the "down link" and "front end," we provide the distribution.

[Telecommunications is a completely separate entity reporting to a Vice
President. It is CENTREX based. And just this month Bell of Pennsylvania
upgraded the switch to a Northern Telcomm DMS 100. No ISDN - yet.
We also now have a "fiber loop" from Bell which "covers" the campus and
they have just appllied for and SMDS tarrif.
We have been working much more closely with telecom in the past 18 months -
coordinating wire pulls and the like. That has been an interesting battle,
not with telecom, but with the Facilities Management folks who insisted
that the two be "bid" independantly, eventhough it meant doing the same
wire pulls twice - both organizations terminate on the same wall plate and
use the same wiring closets.]

DCCS also provides an assortment of "infrastructure" computing services for
the network - IP name servers, boot servers, an on-line directory service
(whois.upenn.edu - whois protocol only today - but X-500 tomorrow),
NTP servers, NNTP servers (news), an on-line information service called
"PennInfo" (telnet to penninfo.upenn.edu) and an Electronic Mail "home" for
those Faculty and Staff who do not otherwise have access. Student access
(graduate or undergraduate) to electronic mail or news is provided by the
individual Schools - some do some don't.) We do NOT provide file servers,
although we do maintain an anonymous ftp repository as part of the PennInfo
system. [These are some of the fun things that make up "Computing
Services." They run on 12 DECstation 5000s - 324 MIPS and 20 gig of disk.]

Back in the days of "nerds by the Bay in San Jose" DCCS did extensive
interoperability testing of TCP/IP implentations and we "supported" only
those implementations we had tested. We wrote detailed explanations of how
to configure those particular versions.  Today, we are inclined to believe
what we see "work" at Inter-OP and will "support" (as in at least talk to)
anybody's TCP/IP implementation. Or put another way, we'll tell folks what
the appropriate values of IP address, subnetmask, broadcast address,
nameservers and the like are, but won't even try to tell folks how to
install those values in their "vendor-X" version of TCP/IP.

Similarly, when our technicians go out on a service call, they take with
then their own device capable of testing both Ethernet and Async
connections. If when that device is connected to the wall plate, no problem
exists, the call becomes time and materials at $60/hour with a 1 hour
minimum. It's amazing how many trouble calls turn out to be "unplugged"
devices - even after our telephone screeners have asked people to check
that their device is plugged in. Bad daisy chains are another frequent
problem. Our "policy" is one wall plate per device. Folks are free to daisy
chain from that if they desire, but the responsibilities are then theirs.
[Our wiring scheme is completely radial. A building backbone interconnects
wiring closets. Individual wall plates are then hung of 'EMPER or terminal
server ports in the closet.

At the presetnt time we DO provide central assignment for DECnet nodes
and AppleTalk Zones as well as IP addresses, but not Novell addresses.
Novell is scheduled to be added later this year.

We have no Token Ring on campus and expect to eliminate our remaining
bi-sync "thingies" this year which are the only vestiges of SNA.

We "manage" (don't I wish) the network via snmp, ping and paper.
Someday we'll actually get a NOC functioning to the point were a network
management station can find and point out problems before the telephone
rings. Actually, it is probably a testimony to the reliability and actual
"flawlessness" of our operation that we "only see" catistrophic failures.
We have "bridged" and "routed" things so that the backbone is pretty
"bullet-proof," but not "back hoe-proof." Local LANs frequently go beserk,
but our topology prevents them from propigating beyond a single building
since HP fixed their code a couple of years back. (Hard to believe, but I
haven't seen a broadcast storm in about 5 years now - wow!) (I just had a
beserk 'EMPER take out "my building" last week. They are still harder than
%$^$# to find. Why? Because we have TOOOOOO many "old ones" which haven't
got any brains at all and are simply "unmanageable."- aha the costs of
evolving technology.)

William H. Magill                         Manager, PennNet Computing Services
Data Communications and Computing Services (DCCS)  University of Pennsylvania
Internet: magill@dccs.upenn.edu                   magill@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
          magill@upenn.edu

-------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 17:25:23 GMT
From: IMAGING.CLUB@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Imaging Club")
Subject:      Banyan's enterprise-wide network services for NetWare

For your information, we have the full text of Banyan's new
announcement of its upcoming enterprise-wide network services
for layering on NetWare.  Existing hardware and software is not
displaced.  If anyone else needs a copy, please let me know.

Michael.Willett@OFFICE.Wang.com

-------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 20:43:11 GMT
From: IMAGING.CLUB@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Imaging Club")
Subject:      Campus-Wide LAN at Babson In Massachusetts

Rob: You might consider the new enterprise-wide network services
for NetWare that Banyan has announced it's coming out with
shortly.  I have the full text of the press release here, if you
would like a copy.  There's also a letter to the editor in the
Aug. 3 Communications Week from the LAN manager at the FAA-South
indicating he prefers to "take his chances with Banyan" rather
than try NetWare 4.0 for his WAN.  Let me know if you would like
me to send you either article. -- Michael.Willett@OFFICE.Wang.com

-------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 08:27:01 -0400
From: "John M. Wobus" <jmwobus@mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject:      Re: From a Unix Platform BITNET

Armando Ibarra writes:
>Hi... This is my first posting to this group... we have running an HP9000
>with HP-UX v8.0 and we want to be able to emulate an rscs on this machine to
>comunicate to other computers in rscs... is there any way to do this???
>I been told that there is a Unix software that can do it ... is it true???
>does anyone have been using it???

You probably want to contact BITNET for information.  One piece of
software I know of is UREP which is produced by the Pennsylvania State
University Computing Science Department.  I believe there is another
option.

John Wobus
Syracuse University

-------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 08:38:19 -0400
From: "John M. Wobus" <jmwobus@mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject:      Re: "evil" nature of hubs/hublets

>    I suspect that the real problem is that you are violating the 2 repeter
>    rule. Both a "Hub" and a "hublet" are repeters. Hence if you put
>    one "hublet" on a "hub" you are ok. but as soon as you put the second
>    "hublet" on you are probably in "theoretical violation" of the rule.
>
>I don't believe this is the case. ...

I pulled the "I don't believe" out of context, but I want to make it
clear that adding a repeater may or may not extend you too far.  It
depends upon what's already in the network.  I made sure this was
documented in the latest BIG-LAN FAQ (though that part was cut off when
I mailed it out the first two times).  Here are the rules: there can be
no more than 4 repeaters and 3 coax segments between any two stations
on an Ethernet.  By "coax segment", I mean thickwire or thinwire.
The other segments can be fiber or twisted pair.

The point is: add a hublet only if you aren't already 4 repeaters away
from some station on the ethernet.

John Wobus
Syracuse University

-------------------------------------------------------


End of BIG-LAN Digest
*********************
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU