From: mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (Mamdouh Maher)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Peace?
Date: 14 Apr 92 05:24:41 GMT
Organization: AT&T

[Moderoar's note: Parts of the article meets the guidelines of
                  soc.religion.islam, and since it is in response to
                  questions, the article appears here in its entirety.
                  Please keep all responses relevant to Islam.]

In article <1992Apr1.124747.6790@uoft02.utoledo.edu> cse0115@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
> The last I heard that attempts and some progress was being made towards
>peace talks.

  Sadly, the only progress made was in getting the peace talks going, the talks
themselves yielded nothing so far. I should note that Israel went into the talks
declaring the land, Israeli foreign policy and the rights of Palestinians are
not subjects to be discussed, this leaves no subjects related to peace. As a
result, the subjects discussed were things like water usage.

> Muslims believe that all non-muslims are going to hell.

  No. Muslims believe that all non-Muslims are not on the right path, but they
do not believe that all non-Muslims are going to hell, partly for two reasons:
  - How about those who do not know about Islam, or those who only have a 
    distorted view about it? Some of them are good, honest people who would
    grab the truth if they found it.
  - God, the Merciful Lord of the Worlds says: "The believers, the Jews, the
    Christians and the Sabeians, those who believed in God and the last day and
    whose deeds were righteous, they have a reward from their Lord and there is
    no fear regarding them and they will not grieve."
                    Sura II (Al-Baqara - The heifer) Aya 62
    The translation is mine, a better translation can be found by Yusuf 'Ali.

> Also Israel is not officially recognised by a muslim nation that I know of.

  Egypt recognizes Israel officially. The reason why Israel is not recognized
by most Muslims is that it is not a legitimate state. These are people who
stole the lands of innocent people, they destroyed their country, they drove
them out of their homes, they killed their children, they confiscated their
property and they continue to oppress them, only because they are weak. They
allow an American or a Frenchman to become citizen, only because he is Jewish
and they deny such rights to those who were are born in Palestine. Israel is
fundamentally an occupier, and should be regarded as such.

> A few Jews I spoke with are willing to give up some land for peace as they
>did with Egypt.

  That is not the position of the state of Israel, furthermore, the land is not
theirs to begin with, Israel cannot give up land, it can only return land.
Israel returned land to Egypt because of the 1973 war, not because it is such a
peace loving nation.

>  What are Muslims willing to do for peace?

  Justice is above peace. The oppressor is willing to take peace with a status
quo, the oppressed cares about justice. If you want peace, work for justice,
that is what most Muslims are willing to do. Some other Muslims are also willing
to give up some of their rights for peace.

>	As a Christian I understand the conflict between non believers and
>believers.  However despite this conflict, Christians have live amongst
>non-believers peacefully.

  So have Muslims, as a matter of fact, a large section of the Jews who lived
in Muslim lands were escapees from persecution in other countries such as
Spain or more recently France or Germany.

> The U.S. was started by believers but they felt it was more important that the
>country was not ruled by religion. I feel this contrasts with many Islamic
>states.

  With all due respect, that is because Christians did not find their religion
a suitable source of law. Islam is not Christianity; it _might_ be a mistake
for a state to be a Christian state, but it certainly is the greatest good for
a state to be an Islamic state. Please forgive me, I am not trying to offend,
but the achievements of Christianity have never been a ceiling to the
achievements of Islam.

  Please forgive me again if I offended you, my intent is only to say that
Muslims are not obligated to take the example of Christians.


Regards

Mamdouh Maher