HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: johnson@offroad.chem.wisc.edu (Arthur Johnson)
Subject: Re: Job Training from the Federal Gov't w/Bethelem Steel
Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, UW-Madison
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 22:52:14 GMT

In article <92267.154722FKR@psuvm.psu.edu> <FKR@psuvm.psu.edu>  Fred  
Rozenblad writes:
> I just heard of a federal job training program in Williamsport, PA which  
is
> supposed to train black youth entering the job market. Bethelem Steel is  
a
> major employer (what's left of the steel industry) in some parts of the  
state.
> Anyway, this program bring high school grads into a training program at  
various
> plants teaching them the trade. The company is using federal tax dollars  
to
> pay for their salaries, etc. The agreement w/ the company and the gov't  
is
> after the training is over, the kids are to hired by Bethelem Steel to  
work in
> their plants.

     Is this "agreement" between the Federal Government and Bethlehem  
Steel in writing, or is it one of those vague verbal things. Something  
kind of similiar happened in Kenosha, Wisconsin. The state government used  
state tax money to help Chrysler Corporation take over the American Motors  
plant in Kenosha. Supposedly, the governor was assured (verbally, of  
course) that, in exchange for the help, Chrysler would keep the Kenosha  
plant open for several years. Of course, as soon as the merger was  
complete, Chrysler immediately closed down the Kenosha plant and fired all  
the workers (mostly white, in this case). When the state government  
protested, Chrysler said hey, there was no formal agreeement to keep  
anything open. You don't have anything in writing, do you? Thanks for all  
the help, though. Sure do appreciate it. Generally, anyone who enters into  
any sort of agreement with a business had better have _everything_  
precisely spelled out in writing, otherwise you're pretty vulnerable. 
  
> Well this isn't happening. The company is taking the money from the  
gov't and
> training the kids, giving them lots of overtime pay, etc., but when the  
moneys
> from gov't run out, the company is fires the kids. The company,in the  
mean time
> is getting off w/out any punishment whatsoever. They are making  
productivity
> off these kids, but the money isn't coming out of their pockets. And the
> "learn" a trade and wind back up in the unemployment line.
>
> 
> Any comments?

     Hmmm. So, we've got all these young black men who know how to make  
steel, thanks to Bethlehem, but who are unemployed, also thanks to  
Bethlehem. This looks like a great opportunity for setting up a mini-mill  
with a bunch of those high-tech electric arc furnaces. All we need here is  
200 million dollars and a guy like Henry Reardon, and baby, we're pouring  
steel! Any cocky, young, aspiring black capitalists out there in  
s.c.a.a.-space with a knack for metallurgy _and_ finance? 
 
> Fred Rozenblad
> FKR@psuvm.psu.edu

Arthur Johnson
johnson@offroad.chem.wisc.edu
From: dc4l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Dean Calloway)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: African names-why aren't there more of them?
Date: 5 Oct 92 06:08:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.Yeo4lHW00UzxM1nKAk
Distribution: soc
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.african.american: 2-Oct-92 Re: African
names-why aren'.. by Michael Lanham@garfield. 
> non-oriental families(rather most families I have met here in the states)
> cannot even begin to trace their "roots".  These include friends whose
> grandfathers, whom are now retired, are investing large sums of time
and money
>  
> into going back as far as possible.  Besides, I think I have enough to be
> proud of in my parents, and their parents and so on that I will honor those I
> know, and those I can trace with the name handed to me by them.
>  
> >4)Or do I err in assuming that most african-american's family names of today
> >  are necessarily that of the slaveowner of the past?
> > 
> I am not aware of such practices.  Maybe someone with a specialty in Southern
> American history can enlighten us to that truth of such a practice.  
>  

This is entirely the case.  There were no "Johnsons" or "Jacksons" in Africa.
Africans, both on the trip and when they arrived here, were
systematically deprogrammed.  Inasmuch as possible, those
characteristics which link peoples together were indeed "stripped." 
These include language, religion, and identification through names.

In the case of names, this process was, for the most part, entirely
successful.  Many of those of African descent in the Americas today have
NO CLUE as to their origins (Cleveland doesn't count) or their ancestry.

I think a better question to ask would be "If you knew who your
ancestors were and where you were from, would you change your name?" 

Sadly, I think most Blacks in America would say "No."

DCAL
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: mdouglas@netcom.com (Mike Douglas-Llyr)
Subject: Re: Good books on African-American history?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 07:04:06 GMT

	I'd like to recommend BEFORE FREEDOM -- 48 Oral Histories of Former
North and South Carolina Slaves, edited by Belinda Hurmence. Speculation and
documentation are one thing. These people were *there*!

-- 




	Hokh'Ton	:	The Crystal Wind is the Storm,
  mdouglas@netcom.com	:	 and the Storm is Data,
Michael Douglas-Llyr	:	  and the Data is Life.
			:		---Player's Litany (The Long Run)
	

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: cmort@NCoast.ORG (Christopher Morton)
Subject: Re: Africans in the Military (Was Re: Good books on African-American history?)
Reply-To: cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton)
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:12:27 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.african.american

As quoted from <1992Sep29.003426.1049@morrow.stanford.edu> by HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels):

> In article <BvAGHu.Ezx@NCoast.ORG>,
> cmort@NCoast.ORG (Christopher Morton) writes:
> >
> >Don't forget the Black American troops who fought with the French in WWI.  They
> >used French weapons and equipment, so they might not be recognized in photos by
> >people who don't know what to look for.  One of my great uncles was in France
> >in WWI, but I think he was under US command.
> .
> .
> Any black fighting units were put under French command. If no
> brothers were fighting, but were simply taking care of horses and
> the like, they were under U.S. command.

This was the general rule as I understand it, but the fastest way to become a
frontline combat soldier is to be a rear-echelon one in front of an aggressive
enemy.  They'll come to see you eventually.  This happened in New Guinea during
WWII if I recall.   Blacks generally gave a good account against the Japanese,
inspite of the artificial handicaps.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------  

"Well whose opinions did you THINK these were...?" 
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: simon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Patrice A. Simon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Boycott "Rhythm & Blues"
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:55:47 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <B0VsRB3w165w@netlink.cts.com> galan@netlink.cts.com (Greg Gross) writes:
>johnson@offroad.chem.wisc.edu (Arthur Johnson) writes:
>
>> In article <92268.071028KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>  
>> writes:
>> >   There is a new show starting tonight called "Rhythm and Blues" on NBC.
>> > Please don't watch this trash.  The basic premise is one of a failing  
>> Arthur Johnson
>> johnson@offroad.chem.wisc.edu 
>
>
>"Frank's Place" was a good show...an excellent show, in fact. 
>Syndication seems to have all but ignored it, though. I wonder why...
>G.
>Gregory Alan Gross      Welcome to life, where no good deed goes unpunished.


	Actually, most of the episodes I saw was when "Frank's Place" was 
in syndication on Lifetime, I think...it was a great show, tho...Which 
brings me to another point...Most of the new black comedies this season
are stupid (definitely Malcom J-W's show "Here & Now"), but they 
feature some good talent - like Mark Curry in Mr Cooper, who was always
at the Apollo, and Martin Lawrence in Martin, who hosts HBO's Def Comedy Jam 
(by the way, don't miss the tour!) Some of the worst shows are "Going to
Extremes" (scenes from Jamaica are nice tho) and the one with Robin Givins...

-- 
Patrice Simon
simon@acsu.cc.buffalo.edu			v5097ucd@ubvms.buffalo.edu
opnsimon@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Wednesday, 30 Sep 1992 15:21:14 CDT
From: <U19807@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Malcom X School
Distribution: usa
 <1992Sep29.135306.9500@cbnewse.cb.att.com>

In article <1992Sep29.135306.9500@cbnewse.cb.att.com>,
ronaldd@cbnewse.cb.att.com (ronald.h.davis) says:
>
>In article <11235@crackers.clearpoint.com> martillo@nero.clearpoint.com       m
>(Joachi
>Martillo) writes:
>>>upset.
>>
>>Just as Irish, Sicilians, Japanese and Chinese have, Black Americans
>>must renounce their mindlessly stupid cultural heritage (just as I
>>
>that's only partly true joachim.  you may have renounced your cultural
>heritage [although i suspect it actually went the other way], but you're
>still MINDLESSLY STUPID!

I'll have you know that you're trying to talk to the proverbial brick wall,
as Joachim Dearest has posted and crossposted the same standard Newspeak for
several months and years. Why he bothers sending it to newsgroups such as
s.c.a.a.,soc.culture.asian,soc.culture.arabic and talk.politics.mideast despite
the sheer lack of support he gets when he does so is beyond me,but hey-at
least he's unintentionally comedic.

>>>Edward A. Haskin
>>>Graduate Student
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  Waste of taxpayer money.


>>Joachim Carlo Santos Martillo Ajami
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  yet another *failed* abortion

I like it. It's nice and brutal,as sig.insults go. >:)

      ** Chris Krolczyk,esq.  * DISCLAIMER: My opinions are in **
      ** Maniac-at-Large      * no way endorsed by the Univer- **
      ** U19807@UICVM.BITNET  * sity of Illinois at Chicago.   **
      ** u19807@uicvm.uic.edu * So there. Nyaah.               **
From: tuff@ellis.uchicago.edu (Geoff Tuffli)
Subject: Re: Prejudice vs racism
Reply-To: tuff@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 06:08:17 GMT

In article <92273.1815223ZASIB3@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> <3ZASIB3@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> writes:
>Geoff's notion that racism is universal ignores concrete reality.  That is
>not to say that *ethnic discrimination* has not been manifested historical-
>ly.  Such differences and accompanying conflicts did not begin with
>Europe.  On the other hand, the notion of race and racism has its own parti-
>cular history.  Check out Winthrop Jordan.  I already suggested the real
>experts on the question (e.g. Montague and others) be consulted.
>Read some of these works in which the issues race and racism have examined,
>then maybe we can raise the discussion above your *personal* opinion and
>a desire to obfuscate the particular and powerful history or Europe's
>*scientific* scheme to subordinate the whole world of color. Bob

Other than this short reply, I'm not going to respond to this. The reason being
that I refuse to be discuss what I see to be paranoic ramblings.

Yes, I _am_ white. I take full responsability for everything that have done and
will do. However, I refuse to be bullied or conned into taking responsability
for something someone who happens to have a trait in common with me, in this
case, skin color.

It appears to me from your post that you are firmly entrenched in the belief
that whites as a totality are deliberately and conspiratorily pursuing a policy
of maltreatment or deliberate subordination of minorities. This is sheer
paranoia along the lines of "the Jews are out to take over America," and I
feel that continued discussion with people who apparently believe such would
be, to put it mildly, unproductive.

	Geoff Tuffli
From: by785@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robin Gibson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Have you got that VIBE?
Date: 30 Sep 1992 12:17:23 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: by785@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robin Gibson)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat) says:

>I LOVE that magazine!  Finally, the magazine that caters to me! (well, at least  
>for the most part ...)  Has anyone else seen it?  I've already put my card in  
>the mail for a subscription!
>
>Donald - Nigger Stompin' African!
>
Chile, I've got that Vibe, too!  :-)  I also put my card in the mail for
a subscription.  Isn't that photography great?

Robin
-- 
Robin L. Gibson      gibson@email.ncsc.navy.mil
Coastal Systems Station
Panama City, FL  32407-5000
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org (Peter Trei)
Subject: Any Prince Hall members out there?
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Distribution: us
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:29:16 GMT


     I'm interested in contacting members of the Prince Hall
affiliation for corrospondence. If you are such, could you drop me a
note at the address below?
						fraternally,

							Peter Trei
							ptrei@mitre.org

"Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth..."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: cwm54@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: National flag for blacks
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 19:16:20 GMT


>
>this fact is also why i raised the issue of flag waving, which, according
>to your interpretation of the above definition would constitute "patriotism"
>[although i contend that i could construct an interpretation (as i did)
>in which i declare them *not* patriotic because they don't support the
>ideal of what this nation really stands for.  in the end it's like "family
>values" it means to you what you want it to mean to you; q.e.d.
>
>>    with examples of peoples who made great contributions to a country
>>
>>    but who did not feel patriotism for it. It is not logical to feel
>>
>>    love or loyalty for your oppressors. But there are many african
>>
>this is true if you believe that the oppressor (which i take as a reference
>to white people) *is* the country since patriotism, according to your
>definitiion revolves around love of a "country", not a people.  hmmm...i
>suspect a lot of folks might call you on that one.
>
>--
>  __  ______  __  / __/ |       at&t bell laboratories, naperville il, usa
>_/ (_(_) / (_(_/_/_(_/  .       ronald@iexist.att.com / att!iexist!ronald
>"if you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes" -- edmund wilson



      Semantics. We probably agree about flag wavers,contributions etc.,
      just not on the DEFINITION of patriotism. I'm stating my opinion
      based on the more traditional definition of patriotism. But for
      your definition your points are valid.

	Based on my meaning, what do you guys think? Do we FEEL the same
      loyalty,love,etc. as white america? I KNOW we have fought bravely in
      many wars, but CAN we feel the same when Old Glory is raised?
      No flaming necessary, all opinions welcome.

						 Carlyle


		my views only not those of CAS.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels)
Subject: Re: Af-Ams in the U.S. Military
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 00:14:08 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.231423.27319@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>,
afadel@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ayman Fadel) writes:
>Greetings,
>
>I guess I didn't make my question clear enough.
>
>I saw earlier this year how Colin Powell was going to
>have a ceremony for the Buffalo soldiers.  I always here
>Af-ams say, in response to Eur-ams who question their
>patriotism, "We fought in all the U.S.'s wars."  I was
>in the Atlanta airport sometime last year when I saw
>this big family with about 9 grandchildren welcoming
>their *grandmother* back from the war in Iraq.
>
>I mentioned in my earlier postings how colonized peoples
>often fought in the wars of their colonizers, and how
>those people today do not view these wars or their
>participation in these wars to be things to be mentioned
>with pride.

(Other stuff deleted here regretfully.)
>
>The question I'm trying to ask is, "Why does it seem
>that so much attention in Af-am history is given
>to Af-ams in the U.S. military?"
>
>A related question is, "Should the military be considered
>an honorable profession, or is it just something to
>do to put bread on the table?"
.
.
Because Aframs (African-Americans) have fought just to show that we
have a country or a people to fight for, from the Revolutionary to
the present, infamous Gulf War. In the beginning, it was to fight
for individual freedom.  There were also many blacks who took
advantage of the Revolutionary War to fight for the British for
their freedom.  Naturally George Washington and his crew were not
too happy allowing all that good slave labor go to waste fighting
for freedom...and that came to include Marse Lincoln as well.  While
watching Ken Burns' The Civil War, I saw that either Generals
Sheridan or Sherman thought blacks couldn't fight and didn't know
how. In other words, another case that white folk can believe their
own propaganda.
.
The Gulf War was an example of how the armed forces have become a
haven for the economically disadvantaged. There were so many black,
Latino/Chicano and women in this Army (and not a few gay folk).  One
brotherman said it right off, there aren't any jobs, so it was
either the Army or the streets.
.
Both my father and stepfather have served in the armed forces.
Usually that meant you got the GI Bill, which allowed for schooling
to help you get a job later, and also helped on the down payment for
a house.  So much for how Fed programs are too bloated, help like
this was a leg up for young black men after WWII and Korea.  Now, I
believe, the Bill is gone.  Correct me if I'm wrong, folks.
.
If you wanna know about black military history gone wrong...the
buffalo soldier was recruited to fight in the Indian wars.  Blacks
fought in Cuba against the Spanish.  One such unit was commanded by
 Teddy Roosevelt.  They were used to defuse the power of the native
Cuban rebellion as well...
From: femibyte@athena.mit.edu (Olufemi G Anthony)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Malcom X School
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:00:34 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <11235@crackers.clearpoint.com> martillo@nero.clearpoint.com (Joachim Martillo) writes:
>In article <28SEP199210152285@venus.tamu.edu> eah0065@venus.tamu.edu (HASKIN, EDWARD ARTHUR) writes:
>>For years the public education system has been geared to one culture, Eurocentr
>>icism. It's a basic realization that public schools don't serve the needs of
>>many of our African American youth. So why is their a big deal over altering
>>a teaching program that will cater to their specific needs. 
>
>They need to be mainstreamed rather than be indocrinated in
>Afrocentrentic B.S.
>
>>America is so hypocritical when it comes to the idea of the "Melting Pot." 
>>We are finally at a point where African Americans see that the U.S. Public
>>School system is institutionally racist and now there is an effort to show
>>African Americans some sort of pride and self-esteem and Europeans are getting
>>upset. 
>
>Just as Irish, Sicilians, Japanese and Chinese have, Black Americans
>must renounce their mindlessly stupid cultural heritage (just as I
>renounce my mindlessly stupid cultural heritage) and accept civilized
>Western modern culture as their own.
>
>>	I say make public schools cater to African American needs and not just
>>Europeans. 
>
>No better way that American Blacks remain subordinate, oppressed and
>outside the mainstream.  What a bigot Haskin is!  Race is not destiny!
>
>American parochials have no idea what true oppression and racialism
>is.  If you want to learn about true oppression and racialism go live
>in Latin American, Africa, E.Asia, India or the Middle East for a
>decade or so.  The sorts of unpleasantries which occur in the USA are
>truly penny-ante.
>
>>Integration not Assimilation
>
>>Edward A. Haskin
>>Graduate Student
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  Waste of taxpayer money.
>
>-- 
>Joachim Carlo Santos Martillo Ajami
>
>The article represents noone's opinions other than the author's.



There goes this lost fellow Ajami again...
Just ignore him. 

Femi.

PS Sorry you're not an Anglo... 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: krw@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (keith.r.smith)
Subject: Re: Good books on African-American history?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 21:29:54 GMT

In article <jumper.717539496@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu> jumper@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Michael Lanham) writes:
>das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz) writes:
>
>>As the title says, I would like recommendations for good books on
>>Africa-American history.
>
>>Thank you,
>
>>Debbie Schwartz // das@voodoo.boeing.com  // or uunet!bcstec!voodoo!das 
>
>An outstanding book on American military history as influenced by blacks and
>seen from the non-white perspective is _Strength for the Fight_.  I think if
>more of the facts shown in the book were known, we would all realize a few
>things.  I found the book at my university book store but do not have the
>author's name, etc.

The author's name is Bernard C. Nalty.
The ISBN is :  0-02-922411-X   in paperback, 356 pages plus notes
and bibliography.

Another good book is:
	"Before the Mayflower - A History of Black America"
	by Lerone Bennett, Jr.
	SBN: 87485-029-0  in hardback 440 pages, plus "Landmarks
	and Milestones" chronology, plus "Black Firsts", etc
	----------- a _must read_

"The Black West" is also worthwhile reading.  More info on that one
tomorrow.

>He who will not reason, is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool;
>and he who dares not is a slave.      --- Sir William Drummond
>
>Michael Lanham       mjlanham@eos.ncsu.edu   &  jumper@catt.ncsu.edu

Keith
From: FKR@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: A Matter of a Will
Date: 2 Oct 92 18:58:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: psuvm.92276.145820FKR
Organization: Penn State University

After reading the paper this morning, along w/ watching the news coverage
on this topic, I was very displeased to see most of Alex Haley's artifacts
auctioned off to pay for debts to the State of Tennessee (I believe).  Most
of his memoires included conservations w/ Malcolm X, his works on Roots, and
other "priceless" items.

I'm not sure how much bad debt he may have had, but someone would think he
would have a will to stop the "vultures" at the auction over his estate.
I know that it is too late to do anything about that now, but I can't under-
stand why someone (friend, family, enemy, or whatever) would have to told
him to have a will. At least his artifacts would remain w/ whoever he deemed
important. If I remember, he had 1.5M in debt. It appears, after the auction,
only $100K was raised. Surely his stuff was more than the money "made" on this
auction.


I guess the moral here is don't be in debt, AND HAVE A WILL!

                    *
Fred Rozenblad      *  Why would anyone want a PhD in Chemistry?
FKR@psuvm.psu.edu   *
                    *
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american