From: jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu (John R. Dooley)
Subject: Re: Wedding music suggestions?
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 18 Aug 92 00:58:05 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.050733.20978@oct17.dfe.dec.com> chaban@fortsc.enet.dec.com (Ed Chaban) writes:
>
>In article <1992Aug16.215957.12768@Princeton.EDU>, roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes...
>>In article <1992Aug16.194403.18619@oct17.dfe.dec.com> chaban@fortsc.enet.dec.com (Ed Chaban) writes:
>>>
>>>In article <1992Aug16.144811.9375@Princeton.EDU>, roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes...
>>>
>>>>I will never understand the use of the Lohengrin Wedding March.  As far
>>>>as I can tell, this is only used in the US (people in Germany used to
>>>>get a chuckle when seeing it in an American movie); and it's hopelessly
>>>>insappropriate as soon as you know the source. 
>>>>After all, a) it's a recessional, and b) he leaves her almost
>>>>immediately.
>
>>>>Oh, and the Mendelssohn's a recessional, too.  
>
>>>>I guess there's just something about life imitating art imitating life
>>>>that people can't resist.  (I've even heard the two pieces performed in a
>>>>sort of medley, with harmonic fumfering in between, at a wedding in a
>>>>Conservative Jewish synagogue.  On the organ.)
>
>Why? because I'm pointing out your rudeness toward those who chose the music
>we chose?

I don't see anything rude about what Roger said.  He's stating 
(and providing good reasons) why he thinks the music traditionally used 
in American Wedding Ceremonies is inappropriate.   

(Actually, I recall when I was a kid, the Mendelssohn was not
allowed in Catholic Wedding Ceremonies.  I don't know why,
but I guess it's either because Mendelssohn was not Catholic
or the wedding in MSND was a Pagan service.)

>>Why not?  
>
>Ask around.  Clearly, your mother never taught you how to be polite.
>

Not an answer.  

>>>Even if a bride and groom were to  choose Spike Jones' "Cocktails
>>>For Two" as wedding music,  guests' opinions of that choice are of no
>>>consequence.
>
>>Funny, when I plan a big party and invite lots of guests, I take the
>>guests' sensibilities, wishes, etc. into consideration.  And since music
>>has the power to offend, the choice of music at a large gathering should
>>not be made as though nobody but those throwing the party were going to
>>be present.
>
>This was not a "party", it was a religious ceremony.
>

Which makes Roger's comments about the inappropriateness of the
music even more relevant.  Since Lohengrin apparently (I don't
know the opera - but I'll trust what Roger says) does not
celebrate the 'til death do us part' vow of marriage, it seems
strange to include music from the Lohengrin ceremony in a
religious ceremony.  (Assuming, of course, your religion 
considers marriage a lifelong commitment)

>>And, yes, Wagner *does* offend some people.  Is this any different from
>>a symphony concert (cf. the Israel Phil's ongoing struggle wit
>>hanti-Wagnerians)?  Yes, of course.  At the symphony, you go for the
>>music, and you know what's being played beforehand.  At a wedding, you
>>do *not* go for the music, but must listen to it anyway.
>
>Ah! now we get to the the *REAL* source of your comments.  You're 
>another one of those paranoid Wagner-haters.  I'd suggest you get 
>professional help... QUICK! 
>

I don't know what Roger thinks of Wagner's music.  Certainly, nothing
in his above statement gives us any knowlege of *HIS* opinion of
Wagner's music.  Many holocaust survivors hate Wagner's music,
because it was often blared over intercoms in the death camps. So,
performing Wagner's music brings back memories of the camps.  Thus
the Israel Phil. (I think, until recently) never performed Wagner.
If say Wagner offends some people, that doesn't mean I'm a 
"paranoid" Wagner hater.  

And, ... where does "paranoia" come into one's opinion of Wagner?

>Some people are offended by the Dead Kennedys. 

And even more people have never heard of them.  But, now that
their music is a staple of the traditional wedding ceremony ...

>Who are you? Tipper Gore? 
>

Only his hairdresser knows for sure.


John D.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical