HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Anti-choice vs. Pro-abortion
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:18:53 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <21419@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:

>In article <1992Aug27.203014.24123@seas.smu.edu> dleon@seas.smu.edu (David Leon) writes:
>>Something to note: if Pro-Lifers are so worried about the sensation of pain
>>that the fetus allegedly feels, why are they (Pro-Lifers) so adamant about
>>banning orally induced abortions (RU486 and Morning After)?  If the Pro-
>>Lifers truly stood by their stance that abortion is wrong because it is
>>torturous, and the other method of abortion (oral) is not torturous, why are
>>they trying so hard to keep RU486 out of this country?

>The fetus still dies.  Usually the fetus is delivered, alive, into the
>toilet, a bucket, or plopped out onto the floor.  It will then flop about
>for a few minutes until it is dead.

Usually?  What percentage, and from what source?  I know several
people who have had abortions and what you describe wasn't the case. 

>Every day in this country babies are being aborted and survive, only to be
>killed by the abortionist.  

Every day?  How many a day, and from what source?

>RU486 will increase the number of cases where
>this occurs.

No, because RU486 only works very early during the pregnancy.


-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
From: tmd@austin.lockheed.com (Tom Davis)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Houston Defending Choice Coalition needs you
Date: 1 Sep 92 12:16:48 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Lockheed Austin Division, 6800 Burleson Rd, Austin, TX 78744

In article <21418@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:

>``Defense lines''?  Please, spare me the rhetoric. ...
>I do hope that you rot in Hell.

Thanks -- I always feel validated when someone of your ilk has to fall
back on the old reliable curses from the archaic past to (try to) score
a point on me.

-- 
   Tom Davis                    Internet address: tmd@austin.lockheed.com
	"Imagine there's no countries; it isn't hard to do;
	 Nothing to kill or die for, and no religion, too."
   [Disclaimer: I speak for nobody but me - and sometimes not even that.]
From: hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Clinton's Economic Plan
Date: 29 Aug 92 23:45:48 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900

In article <21413@rpp386.lonestar.org>, jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
> permitted and who has what authority, etc.  According to the U.S.
> Constitution, Congress has the sole authority for writing budgets.
> Congress can pass any budget it feels like over the veto of the
> President.  The President cannot submit a budget and force it into
> law.
 
The fact is that while the President cannot pass a budget without
Congress, he does submit a budget each year, and he has yet to submit
a budget proposal that was even close to reducing the budget.  
 
Second, while the Democrats control Congress, they certainly don't have a
2/3rds majority to override Bush's veto.  Which means that if the
Republicans cooperate with the President he has quite a lot of control
over the budget process.
-- 
Doug Andersen
hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com
From: curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch/131072)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: pete wilson for president
Date: 25 Aug 92 18:17:48 GMT
Reply-To: curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch/131072)
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin, TX


                =====  LINE-ITEM LEARNING  =====

*7   BUDGET STANDOFF:  WILSON VETOES SCHOOL FINANCE BILL
     CA Gov. Pete Wilson (R) continues his standoff with the
Legislature with a recent veto of a school finance measure (Hull,
S.F. EXAMINER).  Wilson said the bill does not cut deeply enough
into funds for public education and that it "would require either
a major tax increase or dangerous cuts in spending for public
safety, higher education and welfare," the EXAMINER reports.
     "A vote for this bill is clearly a breach of faith with the
people and the taxpayers of California," Wilson said in a veto
message after the Senate approved the measure on a "partisan
vote."
     The EXAMINER reports leaders from both parties said that the
education measure was "nothing more than an attempt by Assembly
Speaker Willie Brown (D) to disrupt negotiations between Wilson
and Senate President pro tem David Roberti (D) and Senate
Republican leader Ken Maddy."
     Roberti:  "It's difficult to explain to my (Democrat)
members why we're working on a compromise when there appears to
be a viable option [spending bill] out there."  According to the
paper, "Maddy was more blunt."  Maddy:  "I'm not going to sit
around and waste my time trying to negotiate some sort of a
budget compromise when the speaker has the power to try to derail
or obstruct any possible chance at reaching a compromise."
     Some Senate Democrats were "angered by the speed with which
Wilson vetoed the education bill," according to the EXAMINER.
"He didn't have the courtesy to let some members of the
legislature even talk to him about it," said Sen. Ralph Dills
(D).
     The CA budget is $10.7B in the red and 55 days overdue
(8/24).

curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |       Austin, TX
        The wages of sin are death, but after taxes are
          taken out it's just sort of a tired feeling.
From: judy@technology.com (Judy McMillin)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Privacy    (was Re: what the hell is HR 4983
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:05:12 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Southwest Research Institute, San Antonio, Texas

In article <1992Aug31.142812.20723@novell.com> bboerner@novell.com (Brendan B. Boerner) writes:
>
adult.  So if you give them a little slap on the butt and they get the
>idea that, "Oh, I wasn't supposed to do that." you haven't harmed them
>and they've learned something.  Pulling out the belt and blistering
>their butt does not fall into this category.
>
>   Well, Brendan you for that Bible thumpers drool for excuses to
    punish, the more violent the better!

>WRT to the WoD, I'm interested in what you've got to say about that.
>I personally am against it (and other laws outlawing now illicit
>drugs) because of my r.t.p.
>
    What is "WoD"?  I have a devil of a time trying to figure out
    all these acronyms -- wdytot*? 

    (*what do you think of that?)


		Bye, Judy

	PS:  Remember, virtue is its own punishment.
From: exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (exuptr@exu.ericsson.se)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Republican Candidates
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:49:21 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.

In article <qF6VPB3w164w@n5abi.hou.tx.us> gak@n5abi.hou.tx.us (Gene A. Kennedy) writes:
>judy@technology.com (Judy McMillin) writes:

>> How can the man who singlehandedly whipped the evil empire into submission,
>> making the world safe for all, stand there in front of God and everyone and
>> tell us he can't handle the guys in his own Congress?  
>> 

The pen is mightier than the sword.
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "This must be Thursday.  I never could get the hang of Thursdays"
                                                       - D Adams
  - Patrick Taylor
    Ericsson Network Systems
    exuptr@exu.ericsson.se                       "Don't let the .se fool you"
    alternately, exuptr@ZGNews.Lonestar.Org
From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Houston Defending Choice Coalition needs youSELECT
Date: 1 Sep 92 23:09:42 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Montagar Software Concepts, Plano TX

In article <21443@rpp386.lonestar.org>, jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
> In article <1992Aug31.103525.16979@montagar.com> davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey) writes:
>>	Okay John, I know that you are a real stickler for published sources,
> 
> Then if these "eye-witnesses" have such tremendous credibility, ...

	Geez...  Are you serious?  Basically what you are telling me is that
if it isn't in the newspaper/TV/magazine/other-published-material, then it
just plain didn't happen?  I also find it odd that you place trust in the
media for total unbiased reporting, when so many others complain that it is
sensationalist and too liberal.

	Don't believe everything you read, John.  Words on paper are not any
more objective than the spoken ones.  When I see a source (written or spoken),
I weigh them information against several factors to shape my beliefs.  Even
comparing two appearently divergent views provides insight.  In all legend,
there is some basis in truth.

	"I've made up my mind, so don't confuse me with facts".

>>	Nice Christian attitude, and shows the love you would show someone
>>in a crisis that was going into the clinic for counseling...
> 
> Yawn.
> 
> I do love the people that go into the clinics.  That is why I inform them
> of the spiritual consequences of their actions.  Should I instead say that
> God wants them to kill their unborn child?

	Did I say that they were going to have an abortion?  No, I didn't.
However, I figured that you would jump to that conclusion, even though I
explicitly said "counseling".  Your fanaticism is showing...

> John F. Haugh II                   | "The US Government has the Midas Muffler
> Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151            |  touch: everything they touch turns to
> UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh |  shit."
> Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org      |                  -- Jay Maynard
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
David L. Cathey		                |INET: davidc@montagar.com
Montagar Software Concepts              |UUCP: ...!montagar!davidc
P. O. Box 260772, Plano TX  75026-0772  |Fone: (214)-618-2117
From: rocky@NeoSoft.com (Joe Mullally)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Anti-choice vs. Pro-abortion
Date: 1 Sep 92 13:41:38 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900

In article <21435@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>In article <1992Aug30.204914.25070@tamsun.tamu.edu> wrr3118@tamsun.tamu.edu (Rick Russell) writes:
>>JFH, why do you weaken your own arguments by making these pointless
>>grammar and style flames? 
>>Mixing otherwise relevant information with petty sniping only makes
>>you and your opinions look bad.

>I am imitating the style of Fred J. McCall.  He likes to throw style
>and grammar flames in for the fun of it.
>The "and that isn't a complete sentence" is a direct quote from an
>earlier article of his.
	
	Substitute "making these pointless..." above with "imitate
Fred J. McCall", then. John, why do you weaken your own arguments by
imitating Fred J. McCall? (-:


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Mullally (rocky@sugar.neosoft.com) PH:713-681-2495
"They say 'David, what shall I do? They wait for me in the hallway'.
I say 'Don't ask me- I don't know any hallways."- David Bowie, "Scary Monsters"
From: curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com 512-838-2806)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Teachers
Date: 27 Aug 92 15:00:54 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin

>>good government that keeps the roads and schools fixed and doesn't waste a
>>bunch of money on spectacles like $35 million dollar administration
>>buildings (which, alas, the late departed superintendent Joan of Ice built
>>for Houston ISD, bond payments on which are still dragging along).

>> Eric Lee Green  elg@elgamy.sccsi.com         Dodson Elementary
>> (713) 437-6908  uunet!nuchat!elgamy!elg      Houston, TX

This is the taxpayer's complaint too.  We are taxed to death.  What
happens to the tax money?  Useless buildings, lardass administrators,
wasteful programs.  I wouldn't mind the taxes so much if they'd fire
all the stupid guidance counselors and paper pushers and secretaries
and hire more teachers.  35 million dollars for administrators.  How
many teachers could have been hired instead?

I recently heard that the ratio of administrative personel to total
school system employees nationwide has increased from 15% to 30% in the
last 30 years in this country.  I don't remember where I read that,
maybe "The Economist".  That's where real change is needed.  Fire those
morons.  Make 'em get a real job.

Will Bill Clinton do that?  
Will George Bush do that?  
Will Vouchers do that?
Will school choice programs that are internal to public schools do that?

The answers I think are respectively, NO WAY, NO since Congress won't
help, Yes, and Probably.

-- 
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |        Austin, TX
  Social Security isn't a retirement plan.  It's middle class welfare.
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: tx.politics,rice.politics
Subject: Re: Anti-choice vs. Pro-abortion (was Re: Houston Defending Choice Coalition needs you)
Date: 2 Sep 92 18:57:47 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <16854ECA5.TROTH@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> troth@ricevm1.rice.edu (Rick Troth) writes:

> 
>        The problem is not abortion,  but  "abortion-on-demand".
>I don't think that you realize that abortion-on-demand hurts women more
>than do controls on abortion-in-general.   

And how is that?  The restrictions that 'pro-life' people often start
asking people about when they talk about how bad 'abortion on demand'
is are restrictions that pretty much can't be enforced without barring
pretty much all abortion.

So, just what 'controls' do you propose?


-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Houston Defending Choice Coalition needs you
Date: 30 Aug 92 17:03:17 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Distribution: tx
Organization: River Parishes Programming, Austin, Republic of Texas

In article <1992Aug28.193356.7265@NeoSoft.com> hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen) writes:
>The facts don't support that.  I've seen some videotapes of pretty brutal
>police behavior toward OR people, and I heard very little in the media
>about it.  The people I talk to who were at the clinics back up the
>fact that there was some "minor" violence like stepping on toes, pushing,
>etc.  There's nothing sillier than someone explaining why theoretically
>something couldn't have happened or wouldn't have happened, when the
>people there are saying "it did happen!".  Show that these people
>have a history of lying or stop claiming things you can't back up.

No, the facts DO support this.  The police violence against OR has been
very well documented in the popular press.  Articles have included the
use of pain submission holds, and the (claimed) permanent injuries.  The
duplicity of the ACLU in defending clinics, but not defending the
protestors (whose 1st, 5th, and 8th Amendment rights are often violated)
and the fact that this is caused by the ACLU having been bought off early
in the game.  Numerous other examples, all related to the treatment of
pro-life protestors have been well covered in the media.  Perhaps not
the Houston Chronicle, but in the media none the less.
-- 
John F. Haugh II                   | "The US Government has the Midas Muffler
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151            |  touch: everything they touch turns to
UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh |  shit."
Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org      |                  -- Jay Maynard
From: troth@ricevm1.rice.edu (Rick Troth)
Newsgroups: tx.politics,rice.politics
Subject: Re: Anti-choice vs. Pro-abortion (was Re: Houston Defending Choice Coalition needs you)
Date: 29 Aug 92 20:24:19 GMT
Organization: Rice University

In article <1684FFE26.JLOCK00@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU>
JLOCK00@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU (Joseph L. Lockett) writes:
 
>                                                          Do you eschew
>exterminators, Mr. Taylor, lest the cockroaches suffer?
 
        Cockroaches aren't human.   The pro-life stance endorses the
sanctity of  *human*  life.   Lower and higher forms must fend for
themselves or seek a formal alliance.
 
>                        But with their own donations, not my tax money.
 
        Hear hear!   Yes indeed!   Get the gun away from my head.
Robin Hood was still  robbin'  (and I'm  *not*  the rich,  thank you).
 
>               You may well argue with me on third or even second
>trimester abortions, which I confess I'm uncomfortable with.  But I
>don't see any problem with aborting a pregnancy in the first three months.
>The fetus is not a child.
 
        But, Joe, where's the line?   Medically it keeps getting
pushed back closer to conception.   And no matter where it is between
zero and nine months,  it's arbitrary.   Please, please, don't base
judgements on such random parameters.
 
Rick Troth <TROTH@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU>, Rice University, I/S VM Systems Support
From: jdp@caleb.UUCP (Jim Pritchett)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Republican Candidates
Date: 1 Sep 92 21:20:11 GMT
 <1992Aug31.155138.21648@technology.com>
Distribution: tx
Organization: is sometimes desirable

In article <1992Aug31.155138.21648@technology.com>, Judy McMillin writes:

> No, Jim, YOU missed the point!  There are leaders and there are whiners.
> Which do you think George Bush is?  

Whiners?  Slick Willie is the biggest whiner that I've ever seen run for President!

Every time that the Republicans tell the truth about Slick Willie, he or his
lieutenants get on TV and whine about "negative campaigning."  Of course, Slick
Willie thinks that negative campaigning is ok as long as only his side gets to do
it...


                                                Jim Pritchett


UUCP:  rwsys.lonestar.org!caleb!jdp
 or    utacfd.uta.edu!rwsys!caleb!jdp
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Clinton's Economic Plan
Date: 26 Aug 92 22:54:38 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Distribution: usa
Organization: River Parishes Programming, Austin, Republic of Texas

In article <1992Aug26.163522.5112@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>I wasn't aware that the Constitution was the ONLY law in this country.
>When did THAT happen?

In 1780-something, I believe.  It was in all the papers.  If you'd
be READING instead of waiting for the invention of TeeVee, you would
have heard about it ...

>Show me where in the Constitution it says that the Constitution is the
>ONLY law and that no others can apply or add additional requirements,
>if you would.  This kind of argument is quite typical of your line of
>reasoning, though -- point to something and say "see", while ignoring
>everything else.

This is quite unbelievable.

The Constitution is quite explicit.  If you want to change the
Constitution, you write an amendment.  Anything else must either agree
with the material already in the Constitution, or it is Un-Constitutional.

That is the nature of constitutions.  A constitution is a defining
document.  It says, by its very nature, what is and what isn't
permitted and who has what authority, etc.  According to the U.S.
Constitution, Congress has the sole authority for writing budgets.
Congress can pass any budget it feels like over the veto of the
President.  The President cannot submit a budget and force it into
law.
-- 
John F. Haugh II                   | "The US Government has the Midas Muffler
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151            |  touch: everything they touch turns to
UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh |  shit."
Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org      |                  -- Jay Maynard
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Printed refs vs. 'I heard it on...'
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:30:39 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <1992Aug26.201331.22386@tamsun.tamu.edu> dlb5404@tamsun.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf) writes:

>In article <1992Aug26.033046.2113@tamsun.tamu.edu> wrr3118@tamsun.tamu.edu (Rick Russell) writes:
>>This whole discussion about documentation of postings seems a little
>>silly. Sure, it's important not to spread misinformation (or
>>disinformation), but Usenet/Internet is a purely informal network for
>>discussion, not a journal for publication. If you think somebody is
>>propagating false information, you can always kill their postings,
>>correct them, or ask them for more information in E-mail.

>Well, we've tried the tactics in the last sentence with Fred McCall, but
>it hasn't done any good so far.  He still propagates false information
>(at least it contradicts everything else we've got).

Well, that first sentence isn't quite true, unless you consider John
Haugh drooling all over himself and screaming 'liar' to be 'trying
tactics'.  

>>What's more subtle about this argument is the suggestion that those
>>who don't have "hard documentation" for their statements should not
>>even post. This is *not* a professional forum.

>The problem is that in a political discussion group (like this one), there
>is a real problem with people making statements like "<group a> pays
>{more/less} tax money than <group b>," with absolutely no basis
>whatsoever.  If people are going to argue their case using specific
>facts and data, it's a requirement that the sources of the facts and
>data are provided.  Political discussions/debates are not like
>the discussions that go on in the comp.sys.* hierarchy, for example.

Well, if you want to start a moderated newsgroup, you know what to do.
But this one isn't, and you'll just have to live with that.  Sorry,
but even in political discussion there is no requirement for the kind
of documenation standards SOME people seem to think that anyone who
disagrees with them needs to meet.

>>Without documentation of any kind, I propose that those people who
>>spend a lot of time footnoting/referencing in their Usenet postings
>>are spending *way* too much time on the net.

>Probably true, but, then again, political discussion without 
>substantiated facts and data is just so much noise.

From what I've seen, even WITH substantiated data it is just so much
noise (taking into account some of the things I've seen cited here and
the behaviour of some people when they elect to disagree with
something someone says).  


-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
From: curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com 512-838-2806)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Teachers
Date: 4 Sep 92 00:03:02 GMT
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin

I've never heard a more persuasive argument for vouchers, less federal
intervention and school choice than that.  

Straight from the teacher's mouth too.  

-- 
--
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |        Austin, TX
 FICA doesn't help the poor.  It mostly goes to old people with incomes >$40k.