HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: norm@helix.nih.gov
Subject: Re: Using vacation days for the Jewish Holidays
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <norm@helix.nih.gov>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:48:36 GMT

>On 30 Sep 1992 16:02:54 GMT, ad980@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul S. Wolf) said:
>
>> One of the Major Mitzvot concerning Rosh Hashana is to Hear the
>> sound of the Shofar.  In order to assure that the Shofar can be
>> sounded each year, even when the First day of Tishri falls on Shabbat,
>> It was ordained that Rosh Hashana be celebrated for TWO days.
>
>> What do Reform Jews do when 1 Tishri is on Shabbat, and the sounding
>> of the Shofar is not permitted?
>
>Recall that Reform allows the use of electricity, etc. on Shabbat. As I
>recall, when Rosh Hashana falls on Shabbat, the Shofar is sounded on Shabbat.
>
>Daniel
>
>--
>[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
>[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
>   "You can't be a rationalist in an irrational world. It isn't rational!"
>	       Dr. Rance, in Joe Orton's "What the Butler Saw"
I know of a Reform place in Balto, Md, that uses trumpets for shofar.  I
would guess that it would not make a difference whether or not it was
Shabbos.
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   *   *  *   *   * * *   nisson reuven b'R Shami
   *      *   *   *  **
   *       ***    *   *
   *  
   *   *  *   ***   ***   ** **
   *   ** *  *   *  * **  * * *
   *   * **  *   *  ***   *   *
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: norm@helix.nih.gov
Subject: Re: Cross-dressing
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <norm@helix.nih.gov>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 13:52:59 GMT

>In article <FAIGIN.92Oct2074011@soldan.aero.org> faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin) writes:
>>
>>Be careful with things that are "clearly" so. We have no explicit statement of
>>what is "mens" and "womens" clothing; furthermore, there are clothes that are
>>clearly dual purpose (such as blue-jeans). There are certain objects, such as
>>apropriately designed undergarments, that are gender-specific (men do not
>>likely need brassires; women are unlikely to use jockstraps), but even items
>>like skirts are not "women-only" (consider the Scottish kilt), and a blouse is
>>just another name for a shirt (except the buttons are on the other side). 
>
>I believe that the definitions of "men's" and "women's" clothing is
>culture and location-specific.  While a kilt may be acceptable men's
>attire in Scottland (or at rennaisance faires), it certainly is not so
>on the streets of New York.
>
>Same for blue jeans.  Only very recently has any form of slacks or
>pants been acceptible women's attire.  To this date, many religious
>(or simply traditional) families (non-Jewish ones, too) don't consider
>pants a man's garment.
>
>
>-- 
>David Charlap         |"there aren't 50,000 things for which it's worth writing
>dic5340@hertz.njit.edu| software; and the computer industry doesn't have enough
>----------------------+ programmers to create that much good software.
>Therefore, most of it must be worthless" -- Boris Beizer "The Frozen Keyboard"
Sorry David, I think you must have gotten it backward.  Today all frum Jews
consider pants to BE a man's garment and not for women.  You would not find
strict orthodox women wearing "jeans" or any other type of pants, even in
the privacy of their own homes.
+--------------------------------------------------------+
   

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   *   *   *     *   * * *   nison reuven b'R Shami
   *   *   *         *  **
   *    ***         **   *
   *  
   *   *  *   ***   ***   **  **
   *   ** *  *   *  * **  * ** *
   *   * **  *   *  ***   *    *
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+---------------------------------------------------------+
From: avi@hawk.imagen.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Pasuk in Tehilim ? (Verse in Psalms)
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:33:49 GMT
Reply-To: avi@hawk.imagen.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: none

I'm looking for the book, chapter and verse of the following verse
from the bible. I'm not sure if its in Psalms or Issiah and it could
also be in another book. The verse is:

 Hebrew: Harpoo U-Dehoo ki ani Elohim (the word for Elohim might be
         Shem Hameforash, but I think, is not)
 English: Be silent and know that I am God

Anybody know where this is written ?

Also, if anybody found where this verse is and know what the traditional
commentators say about it (i.e. rashi, Eben-Ezra, etc.) I will especially
appreciate this information, especially a direct quote rather than a summary.

I appreciate if you can email to me directly (avi@imagen.com) since 
unfortunately I don't frequent this group, but I will try to follow-up on
any responses here, as well.

Thank you and Shana Tova,

avi@imagen.com
From: tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 92 20:21:01 +0100
Organization: "The Private site of Manfredo Tichauer"

rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:

> 
> 2)  I don't really know how to say this without *really* offending
> someone, but Judaism should be able to survive even if some people do
> intermarry.                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^

  
 SOME PEOPLE ?!!!      I'll give you the OFFICIAL statistics of Jewish
 intermarriage in West Germany from the last three years (in per cent)

                                     WOMEN       MEN           
                                     -----       ---
          1988                       61.0       73.8
          1989                       74.2       83.2
          1990                       68.2       75.0
 
 As I already said, these are official numbers, that is, people that
 estipulated their religion at the marriage license bureau. Many others
 don't do it because:
 
 1. they don't want to be registered as  Jews either because they don't
    care about being Jews or because they are afraid that anybody knows
    they are Jews.

 2. they want to save taxes.  In Germany every registered member of one
    of the following religious groups has to pay taxes. These taxes are
    later distributed to the church/sinagoge to whom the member belongs.
    These religious groups made an agreement with the German government
    because  they found it was a better way to collect money from their
    members:
             Jewish  
             Evangelical: 
                         - church of Germany
                         - free churches
             Roman-Catholic
             
    That is why officially there are about 35.000 Jews in Germany. The
    real number is calculated to be around twice this number. It is ve-
    ry sad for me to say that most of the israelis living in  Germany
    DON'T belong to a Jewish community.  I can't demonstrate this but
    I do know many israelis (also part of my israeli family living in
    Hamburg many years ago didn't belong to our community) who aren't
    members of any Jewish group or community: they just go (sometimes)
    to the sinagoge for Yom Kipur and/or when there is a party because
    of Yom Ha'atzmauth.    
        
 PS: Can somebody tell something about intermarriage statistics in USA
     and other countries? 
                         
      
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Manfredo Tichauer M.                       EMAIL : tichauer@valpso.hanse.de
  Opitzstrasse 14                            VOICE :     (++ 49 40)  27.42.27
  2000 Hamburg 60 - GERMANY                  FAX   :     (++ 49 40) 270.53.09
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Hazzanut (was Re: Synagogue Financing)
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 25 Sep 92 06:22:42 GMT

Maybe this isn't a question about chazzanim, but one thing that I've
always wondered about is why we have prayers that have a clear
structure, they're printed that way in the machzor, but we read them
another way.  Take, for example, this piyut which appears a number of
times during Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur

atah hu elokenu			beshamaim uvaaretz.
gibor v'naaratz,		dagul mervavah.
and so on for 9 more lines

Notice periods at the end of the lines, they're found in Machzor Rinat
Yisrael.  And it seems that they belong there.  So what do they say in
your shul?  In every shul I've been at they read "atah hu elokenu",
then "bashamaim uvaaretz gibor v'naaratz" (note: this is *not* a
rhyme, even if it was, the other pairs don't rhyme), "dagul mervavah
hu sach vayehi" and so on.

Why?

P.S. When my boss was in university, he had a professor who used
"dagul mervavah" to refer to someone who got an unusually large number
(if not 10,000) error messages and warnings (flags) from an assembler.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       New signature will appear "acharai hachagim"
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org 			Jerusalem
From: raan@techunix.technion.ac.il (Ran Ever-Hadani)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: ZIONIST/JEWS, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE??????
Date: 28 Sep 92 08:57:00 GMT
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology

In <raan.717594424@techunix.technion.ac.il> raan@techunix.technion.ac.il (Ran Ever-Hadani) writes:

>In <9209211319.AA27408@nysernet.ORG> VSLARRY@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Larry Israel) writes:

>>"Jewish" is the religion. I will leave it at that.

>Many Jews I know, including myself, are atheists.  So obviously
>Judaism cannot be "only" a religion, otherwise an "atheist Jew"
>would be a contradiction in terms, which it obviously is not.

Another example:  Last night was the evening of Rosh-Hashana (the
Jewish New Year's eve).  As I was driving through Haifa at around
7pm, the roads were full of traffic -- people driving to spend
Rosh-Hashana evening with family relatives.  This was after
the sun had already set, which means that practicing orthodox
Jews were not allowed to drive in that time.  So the mass traffic
was defintely caused by a Jewish traditional celebration, but it 
was not religious in any way.

-- Ran
-- 
Withdrawal from the territories is in Israel's vital interest.  I will not 
feel any less at home in Shiloh or Bethlehem if I need a visa to go there.

                                   Moshe Dayan  (quoted from memory)
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jews and the Black death (was Re: What is chalitza?)
Date: 26 Sep 1992 21:08:18 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


   It has always been my belief that Jews did not suffer as often
as their gentile counterparts because of practices involving more
cleanliness.

                               -Mark

-- 
   "One can be a racist.  Or one can be a human being.  But one
may not be both."
                                 - Rabbi Abraham Joshua heschel

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Tay-Sachs
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 14:52:16 GMT

In article <69123@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt6390a@prism.gatech.EDU (BERNSTEIN,AVRON P) writes:
>
>I read somewhere that there are two distinct groups that are affected
>by Tay-Sachs.  Jews of Ashkenazi descent and French Canadians (usually in
>Quebec) are the groups. 
  There was anarticle in Nature, about 3-4 years ago, about a community
  in the Eastern Townships of Quebec (the south side of the St. Lawrence
  river) that was found to have a high incidence of TS genes. These
  communities are more or less homogeneous descendents of single
  communities from France. The authors of the article speculated that
  they might have coime from sort of marrano population.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Hazzanut (was Re: Synagogue Financing)
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:18:11 GMT

Warren writes:

>Maybe this isn't a question about chazzanim, but one thing that I've
>always wondered about is why we have prayers that have a clear
>structure, they're printed that way in the machzor, but we read them
>another way.

It's not only on the Yamim Nora'im.  What about every Shabbat, in
psukei dezimra:

	Shokhen `ad -- marom -- vekadosh shemo.

or,
	Hodu `al eretz, veshamayim.
	   ^

Or Tora reading, where people misplace accents, thereby altering
the meanings of pesukim.

Or even Shabbat zmirot.  For example, in "Ki 'eshmerah Shabbat,"
many people sing the verse as follows:
    `al ken lehit`anot, bo `al pi nevonav,
    'asur levad miyom kippur `avoni.

Well, I always thought it was preferable NOT to fast on Shabbat,
UNLESS it was Yom Kippur.  This almost seems to say the exact
opposite!

>  Take, for example, this piyut which appears a number of
>times during Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur
>
>atah hu elokenu			beshamaim uvaaretz.
>gibor v'naaratz,		dagul mervavah.
>and so on for 9 more lines
>Notice periods at the end of the lines, they're found in Machzor Rinat
>Yisrael.  And it seems that they belong there.  So what do they say in
>your shul?  In every shul I've been at they read "atah hu elokenu",
>then "bashamaim uvaaretz gibor v'naaratz" (note: this is *not* a
>rhyme, even if it was, the other pairs don't rhyme), "dagul mervavah
>hu sach vayehi" and so on.

Or, Melekh `elyon, and umpteen others.

>Why?

Good question.   If people spent half the time concentrating on the
words and meaning that they do in hazzanut, I think davening would
be far more meaningful, and probably more pleasant.

One thing that struck me on RH -- and indeed strikes me every year --
is the number of piyutim skipped during chazarat hash"tz.  It would
seem to me that if stretching out davening is what is desired, they
could read more piyutim, some of which were quite interesting; but
if that's not the goal, then why not cut back on the chazzanut, and
cut out an hour of unneeded -- and probably unappreciated -- opera.

-Don Gertler
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Citecheck Hell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Handicappers on El Al
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:03:16 GMT
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Oct5.144647.2116@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> friedenb@sapphire.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg) writes:
>
>I have a friend who is confined to a wheelchair.  I am trying to convince
>him to come to Israel with me in either December or during the summer.
>
>There are two problems (as he explains it):
>
[problems deleted]

American airlines (as opposed to "American Airlines") are required by
law to provide access to handicapped people.  Not sure what the state of
the law is with international flights or international airlines flying into
the US.

Anyway, this isn't legal advice, I'm not a lawyer, and every other
disclaimer you could imagine, as is the case for every post I make.
-- 
ted frank | thf2@midway.uchicago.edu 
also at quibeaux@uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
ajax crypto-analyzer -- warning! remove all chicken bones first
From: nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller)
Subject: Jews and politics
Organization: Trinity College, Hartford, CT.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:04:08 GMT

When Sam Saal posted his requests for questions that he
might pose to Michael Lerner, my first thought was that
it was a silly enterprise.  Not because I'm a defender of
ML: he was a colleague of mine years ago and if I read and
support Tikkun it's on universalistic grounds.  No, I
thought it was silly because it suggested that SS had no
ideas of his own.

Maybe I was wrong.  SS's questions (that unfortunately never
got asked) were not what the ones I would have asked, but
they do open a window on a discussion that is amazingly
absent on scj: Jews and politics.  Who would have thought
that so many American Jews would leave the liberal/socialist
politics of their parents and grandparents for Ronald Reagan
or dogmatic libertarianism, and who would have thought that
just as many would become apolitical?  Right-wing Jews? 
Politically apathetic Jews?  Talk about assimilation.

So I'm glad the questions were asked and I hope we can
discuss them reasonably.  As far as I'm concerned (and I
hope we can leave ML out of this) Tikkun is one of the most
valuable magazines in America today--for Jews in particular.
It is also totally different in tone from Jewish left-wing
periodicals of earlier generations in that it goes to Jewish
tradition for its values.  In that sense it is a far more
Jewish magazine than Commentary; and Alan Lustiger's (smug?)
question as to why the latter is winning readers while
Tikkun is losing ought really to give us all pause, if not
in the way AL meant.

This is too long already.  I'll be happy to stay with this
thread unless (until?) it's taken over by the shouters and
spitters.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:54:28 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.152611.20469@umbc3.umbc.edu> shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:
>
>Perhaps Sam's comments were occasioned by the fact that no Jewish
>sources (to the best of my knowledge) see the basis for tradition
>as the search for happiness.  Sam may be guessing that AAP's asssertion
>was post hoc justification for his intermarriage.
>
>

If that was his guess, he was wrong.
I do not need to justify my intermarriage to anyone, as a first point.
As a second, I was asserting that based on the idea that men has created
gods and religions as a form of regulation of social relations, among other
reasons. So, religion is a way of regulating relations and explaining reality
in such a way that happiness can be found.


>
>
>
>-- 
>Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
>   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
>Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
>Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.



AAP
From: kimel@werple.apana.org.au (Moishe Kimelman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Slichot
Date: 1 Oct 92 07:33:44 GMT
Organization: werple public-access UNIX, Melbourne
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.apana.org.au

cohen@quartz.ciw.edu (Ronald Cohen) writes:


>Are Slichot said on Shabbat before dawn?  Thanks,

No Slichot are recited on Shabbat, unless that Shabbat happens to be Yom Kippur.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aa324@yfn.ysu.edu (Marlene Miller)
Subject: Perot Halts Engagement
Reply-To: aa324@yfn.ysu.edu (Marlene Miller)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 22:47:49 GMT


There was a discussion at our Sunday morning minyan that H. Ross Perot's
daughter was dating a guy. H. Ross found out he's Jewish.. and put a stop
to it before it got 'serious'.  
 
Has anyone heard that story?  Is there any documentation to prove it?
 
Thanks,
 
Marlene J. Miller
aa324.yfn.ysu.edu
-- 
         No nation can long survive without pride in its traditions.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: isilver@meena.cc.uregina.ca
Subject: RE: Shul name
Date: 4 OCT 92 13:48:31 GMT
Organization: University of Regina, Regina, Sask., Canada

Some names I've liked:
-      Anshe England (in Toronto)
-      Holy Blossom (likewise)
-      The Christchurch Synagogue (its official name, as per
Goldman's "The History of the Jews in New Zealand". This latter
building is 111 years old. My father was bar-mitzvah there.
      What is the name of the shul in Corpus Christi?
       Regards
                            Ian
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Tzom Gedalia
Date: 1 Oct 92 09:03:59 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Distribution: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

In <1992Sep30.214255.1671@cas.org> rmt51@cas.org (Rick Turkel) writes:

>My late father-in-law had four reasons not to fast on Tsom Gedalyah:

Who *wants* to eat on the day after a week (I mean two days) of Rosh
Hashana?
-- 
/|/-\/-\       New signature will appear "acharai hachagim"
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org 			Jerusalem
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Summary: Judaism is NOT meant to look attractive.
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:19:06 GMT

In article <RLK.92Oct6124924@underprize.think.com> rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:

# If organized Judaism is going to take a hard line toward people who
# intermarry, and parents of someone who intermarries are going to go
# through the whole mourning routine, it's not going to make Judaism look
# very attractive.

	Judaism is not supposed to look attractive.  It is supposed to
provide guidlines for Jews to live their lives.  If you are "into"
Judaism simply because it is attractive to you, may I suggest that you
do not understand Judaism at all.

	Note, I am not implying that Judaism (as a whole or some subsets
of that whole) is not attractive.  Much of it is.
--

David Makowsky
makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout)
Subject: Re: * Jesus Christ? *
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:53:35 GMT

stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>JOHN HIATT writes:
>>  How does Jesus of Nazareth fail to be the messiah?

>The simple answer is that your question is totally irrelevant for
>this (s.c.j.) newsgroup.

>If you want to believe that the self-styled preacher Joshua, or
>Shabbatei whatever, or Mohammed, or any of the hundreds or thousands
>of other people who have lived or are living on this planet who have
>claimed they were the Messiah, is in fact so, go ahead, but what does
>it have to do with Judaism?

This is a bit simplistic don't you think? Jewish culture has often been
formed as a result of contact with other surrounding cultures.  It is
simply a question of what is kept in and what is kept out, as a community
consensus.  The question above simply asks why is the Jesus tradition
kept out.  It has everything to do with soc.culture.jewish

You also ignore the famous Jewish "messiahs" who had a large influence
on Jewish thought both at the time and afterwards as a new view of
Messianic claims was formulated.

>Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
>UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
>Summit, NJ
>smk@usl.com
--
Eli Chiprout
Dept. of Electronics
Carleton University	
emc@doe.carleton.ca	
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish