From: simic@pollux.ccsf.caltech.edu (Petar Simic)
Subject: Re: Irony continues in our history
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:02:49 GMT

 	Josip Loncaric writes:

>>>	Petar Simic writes:
> ...(because I feel sick whenever I have to). Instead, I will let French
> historian, Edmund Paris speak (from his book, "Genocide In Satellite
> Croatia"), not about the total Serbian loss in the WWII, but only about
> part of it - massacres of Serbs in part of the former Yugoslavia (Croatia,
> which with Hitlers help included also most of the Bosnia and Hercegovina).
>
>       Here is the relevant paragraph:
>       -------------------------------
>
>       " ...There (in Croatia), in years 1941-1945, some 750,000 Serbs,
> 60,000 Jews, and 26,000 Gypsies - men, women and children - perished in
> a gigantic holocaust. These are the figures used by most foreign authors,
> especially the Germans, who were in the best position to know. Herman
> Neubacher, perhaps the most important of Hitler's troubleshooters in the
> Balkans, reports that althought some of the perpetrators of the crime 
> estimated number of Serbs killed at one million, the more accurate figure
> is 750,000 [*]. One of Hitler's generals, Lothar Rendulic, who was in the
> area where the crimes were committed, estimates that in the first year
> of the existence of the puppet state of Croatia at last a half million
> Orthodox Serbs were massacred, and that many others were killed in 
> subsequent years [**]...."

 ...I've never heard of this historian.  Is he reputable?  Why does he think
that a single source's estimate is THE correct one?  I doubt that a
serious historian would consider this kind of hearsay definitive: the
problem was much bigger than a single person could guesstimate simply
by visiting the area.

My claims are based on the few useful studies which were done on this
matter, where both Serbian and Croatian historians compared a wide...

 Josip

<<<

	Lets not play games. The book I quoted is just one of the countless
 studies by serious schoolars with no obvious ethnic bias (nor interest
 in the Tito's "share of quilt-in-the-name-of-brotherhood and unity" policy),
 from all ower the world. It has hundreds references to the original
 documents and schoolary studies supporting it, it presents numerous
 eye-witness testimonies often from German and Italian officers, personal
 diaries, official reports between Zagreb and Berlin and German Ministry for
 Foreign Affairs. It is just one of the number of studies with similar, and
 well known conclusions. The complete reference is:

	[1] Edmond Paris, "Genocide in Satellite Croatia, 1941-1945", A Record
	of Racial and Religious Persecution and Massacres (Chicago: The American
	Institute for Balkan Affairs, 1962);

	and can be used as the pointer for further study.

	Few of the direct witnesses accounts coming from German senior
	military officers: 

	[2] Herman Neubacher, "Sonder-Auftrag Suedosten 1940-1945: Bericht 
	eines fliegenden Diplomaten" (Goettingen-Berlin-Frankfurt, 1956),
	pp. 31-32;

      [3] "Gekaempft Gesigt Geschagen", (Heidelberg, 1952), pp. 161-162.

	[4] Urlich von Hassel, Vom andern Deutscheland, 1938-1944, 2d ed. 
	(Zurich, 1964);   
	
	[5] Kurt Zentner, "History of the Resistance in Germany and Europe
 	1933-1945", Munich: Suedwestverlang, 1966. 

	-------------------------------------------------------

	Josip further writes:

>>>......All of these charges are constructed to justify Serbian aggression
in progress today.  Serbian propaganda against Croatia started...

 ...Given the political and ideological conflict between Serbs and Croats,
 this is a highly politicized issue...
<<<

	Ideological conflict? Hmmm...Oh, I know, you mean "Serbs are
 Communists", "Serbs are Communists",...Media loves this stuff. It is
 so simple.

	-------------------------------------------------------


>>>... Some progress could be made by removing it from politics, allowing
 that an academic debate take place based on facts and not politics, and
 then accepting conclusions. This debate would examine the total results of
 the WWII carnage in former Yugoslavia and causes of deaths.  

 Would you consent to this kind of arbitration?  Could we then consider
 this issue settled?...
<<<

	Academic debate about WWII in Balkans and elsewhere is long over; at
 least as far as the question of who were the friends and who were the
 enemies; who were the butchers, and who were the butchered. No barganing
 about this. The remaining questions are minor and deal with "N-th order
 effects" (see [1] and the references there, or visit the regional office of
 the Simon Wiesenthal Center (NY, Ch, Tor, La) ).	

	------

	Petar.



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