From: jcurtis@npal.rn.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: "democratic" Estonia
Date: 12 Sep 92 17:26:55 GMT
Organization: PalNet -- Indianapolis, Indiana

w
I am a new user to Internet, so this post may not reach the group in the
correct form. However, after reading the posts from the Russians in this
newsgroup, I felt I had to respond. How would Vadim and the others have felt if
the Germans had taken over Russia and 50 years later Russia had regained its
independence? Would he be willing to give citizenship to colonists who had been
sent in to Germanize Russia. This is the way people in the Baltic States feel
about their Russian occupiers. My grandfather was executed because Stalin made
a deal with Hitler giving the Soviet Union the Baltic States. My mother was
left an orphan and was lucky enough to escape to the United States. I have no
idea what happened to my uncles and aunt because they were too young to make
the trip from Latvia. I have no sympathy for colonists who were given all the
advantages while the state did it's best to destroy the national identities of
those countries.
jcurtis@ npal.rn.com  or  towers!nstar!npal!jcurtis







f
isynH  epxfIn article <18o4j1INN162@rodan.UU.NET>, avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim
Antonov)
writes:
> In article <1992Sep10.052858.14427@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>>: 
>>: Yuck. Russians ARE a majority in Kazakhstan. The poor guy did not
>>: his homework.
>>
>>According to the Information sheet of Finnish - Russian Chambre of
>>Commerce the largest ethnic group are the kazahks in Kazakhstan along
>>1989 cencus.
> 
> By 1%? Half of a population cannot be "minority". Moreover, Russian
> population in Kazakhstan is mostly urban and therefore has much higher
> voting participating (it's a known phenomenon that urban population
> is more politically active). Last elections if i remember correctly
> featured 65% of ballots casted by Russians (it's an estimation, don't
> worry, nobody marks ballots with his nationality).
> 
> BTW, the census also showed some 5% of other Slavic nationals which
> clearly share views on ethnic policy with Russians.
> 
>>This bulletin  I have got couple days ago.
>>So Martti Valkonen, the reporter of Helsingin Sanomat is quite
>>obviously right and Vadim wrong.
> 
> Mindless use of meaningless figures can show even more wonderful
> conclusions. There are lies, terrible lies and statistics.
> 
> I don't care to investigate from which dumpster your journalist
> got his "facts" from. There is much more simplier explanation why
> the Russian government do not accuse Caucasian and Cantral Asian
> republics in violations of rights of Russians -- simply because 
> they do not violate those rights. Got it?
> 
>>Vadim is  probably a "product " of a closed society, communism.
> 
> You're obviously a product of a misconducted abort. Unlike you 
> i have my own brain.
> 
>>As an example I mention following you cannot get swiss citizenship
>> without passing a language
>>test and it is very difficult. In Finland you have to pass a language
>>test in a spoken Finnish, the certificate can be obtained from the legalized
>>Finnish
>>teachers in Finland. Quite decent demands, how you can cope in a society
>>if you do not understand the language at all. And how you can apply
>>citizenship of a state which language you do not want to learn. Quite
>>logical.
> 
> There is a big difference between accepting immigrants and expelling
> long-time-ago settled residents. And i'm not of a very high opinion
> of European "democracy". It has wonderful traditions of Nazism and
> Social Democracy (aka proto-communism). Not to mention the wonderful
> xenophoby so typical in Europe.
> 
>>Uzbekistan,Estonia etc. are just following a common european praxis.
> 
> Estonia cheerfully picked all the shit from the European policy and
> now competes with Iraq in the field of the most respectful treating
> its own population.
> 
>>Vadim have no idea about that?
> 
> I have an idea what does totalitarism mean.
> 
>>Vadim? and his mother country has been closed from the rest of the world
>>so long time...
> 
> Yep. I do not read tabloids and do not fear to have my own opinions.
> 
>>that a lot of information is needed before they reach the
>>rest of Europe in these kind things as in many others too.
> 
> We're not discussing the life in Europe, right? If you're unable to
> understand that i (being a Russian citizen) know much more about what
> the life in ex-SU is than any Finnish journalist then you're simply
> can't tell black from white.
> 
>>Otherwise I cannot understand this total lack of basic information they seem
>>to miss.
> 
> I can understand the total lack of logic and inpenetrable self-sufficiency
> of Mr. Jarmo. He is not the first cretin i met in my life.
> 
> --vadim