HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gl8f@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl)
Subject: Re: Deadline and graces for adjustments and retreats
Organization: Department of Astronomy, University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 01:21:55 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.004815.13762@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> rho@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Richard Ho) writes:

>Not really sure I'd want to play such a game though I might try to
>implement it (as a networks project) if people want such a thing.

A similar project was once done as an IRC automaton; it took moves and
whatnot and players could communicate over IRC. These days it would be
pretty simple to take the judge game-resolution code and tack it into
a client. All the communication code would live in IRC.
From: srb245@math.uni-muenster.de (Bernd Koester)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: How can i play Diplomacy
Date: 12 Jan 1993 10:19:28 GMT
Organization: Westf. Wilh.-Universitaet Muenster, Germany.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: srb245@math.uni-muenster.de
NNTP-Posting-Host: nain.uni-muenster.de
Keywords: Diplomacy

There is only one question I have....

How can I join a game on net?

Bernd Koester

Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: gl8f@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl)
Subject: Re: Game aargh! not eligble for EP
Organization: Department of Astronomy, University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 01:32:29 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.111459.3682@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au> s9000289@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au (Cameron Hooper) writes:

>Just like to throw in my support for NMR.  It seems to me that vacant 
>positions, once advertised on r.g.d, fill up quickly unless it is a
>hopeless position.

Even hopeless positions fill up, during most of the year. I was
recently eliminated from one of my "dud" positions, and went looking
for another one. None were available in any standard or gunboat games,
on either the Washington or EFF judge. I'm happy to spend a fraction
of the time I spend playing serious positions to help games run
smoothly...
From: maillet@ug.cs.dal.ca (Andre' Maillet)
Subject: Re: plug for AMNESIA on Washington!
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 03:27:32 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.155612.1@skcla.monsanto.com>, jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com writes:
|> The game "amnesia" on the washington judge appears to have been forgotten.
|> It is still forming (after many weeks), and has only two players signed up
|> (counting myself) out of the eleven needed for a CROWDED game.
|> 
|> Please sign on.  Let's enjoy a game.
|> 
|> Joel
|> -- 
|> jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com
|> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|> "I want peace on earth, and goodwill towards man."
|> "We don't do that kind of thing, we're the United States Government!"
|>   -- from _Sneakers_

     Finally! A game! Ah.... I'm in! ($plug$) We still need 8 more players!
Come on! Join! Join today! ($plug$)

     Oops... I forgot! The game is amnesia on the Washington judge! 8^)
Mind you, it's a crowded game. (But not crowded enough for me! Join!)

     Don't forget! Amnesia on Washington Judge! 8^)

Andre'
-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Andre' M. Maillet    | "Wouldn't it be nice if Education got all the money |
|maillet@ug.cs.dal.ca | it needed and the Air Force had to hold a bake sale |
|djtas@ac.dal.ca      | to buy a new bomber." - from a bumper sticker       |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
DISCLAIMER: The views of Dalhousie University are not necessarily those 
expressed by myself. Therefore, I will completely ignore the university's 
opinions and say whatever the hell I want to.
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: an1739@anon.penet.fi ("Professor Who?")
Subject: "limited NMR"
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: rec.games.diplomacy
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 01:12:03 GMT

After reading at length about the subject: here is a complete newbie's
$0.02 (I have played -NO- games).

Why not introduce "limited NMR", i.e. when a power gets small enough
(perhaps, the size divided by the sum-of-squares index) it becomes
eligible for NMR but not "major" players?  This way people no longer
have to wait for abandoned broken-down positions but the "serious"
positions never (sort of) get wrecked.....

Also, why not have a NMR'ed army continue to support, if its last move
was a support, the same move (hold order)?  That also seems like a reasonable
play.  In any case, I am sure to get flamed by BOTh camps now, but it seemed
kind of obvious.....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned.
From: desper@math.rutgers.edu (Rick Desper)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: EFF Judge
Keywords: Down?
Date: 6 Jan 93 16:50:14 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

The EFF Judge is not bouncing my messages.  Has anybody received mail
from it today?  
					Rick
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy,bit.listserv.dipl-l
From: jroberts@sanjuan (John Roberts)
Subject: Supporting a Support
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, CANADA
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 20:13:23 GMT

In my last ftf game, the GM invoked a rule that I didn't necessarily
agree with but seemed to be standard.  That was the invalidation of support
for units offering support to another attack.  Eg:

France: Pic -> Bel
	Bur S Pic -> Bel
	Par S Pic

Germany: Mun -> Bur
	 Ruh S Mun -> Bur

His ruling was that the support from Par to Bur was invalid, because Bur
was not holding.  The exception he allowed was for mutual support.

Now in a judge game, I have been bounced on an attack, playing a position
similar to Germany's above.  Therefore, the judge allows the support from
Paris.

I suspect that the Judge is the correct interpretation, but want to be sure,
and ask that someone point me at the location in the rules that describes this.

Thanks
--
John M. Roberts   jroberts@sanjuan.uvic.ca
voice: (604) 384-4131   fax: (604) 384-1194
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: casmacin@atlas.cs.upei.ca (Sean MacIntosh)
Subject: Youngstown Map Needed.
Organization: University of Prince Edward Island
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:46:51 GMT


Greetings Fellow Diplomats,


	I am looking for a copy of the youngstown map.  Unfortunately, I do
not have access to a postscript printer and therefore cannot use the file
given out by the adjudicator.  If there is anyone out there who might be
able to print me a copy and send it to me snail mail, I would GREATLY
apprecite it!  I live on Prince Edward Island, Canada.  Email me if you're
able to do this for a fellow Diplomacy lover!
 
-Sean

+----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
|                                  |                                       |
|Sean D.  MacIntosh                |  Oh what a piece of work is man. . .  |
|casmacin@atlas.cs.upei.ca         |                                       |
|casmacin@upei.ca                  |                                       |
|Colonel Gray Senior High School   |                Wil Shakespeare        |  
|Charlottetown, P.E.I., CANADA     |                quoted by              |
|                                  |                Jean-Luc Picard        |
|                                  |                                       |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: millington_j@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: taking randomness to the max!
Date: 8 Jan 1993 12:54:25 GMT
Organization: Wellington City Council (Public Access), Wgtn, Nz
Reply-To: millington_j@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

Greetings!

On the subject of completely randomising a diplomacy game, would
anyone be interested in the following :

1898, gunbaot, no press, NMR, 24hr warp !

takes all the talking out, and just requires you to send in one piece
of mail per day - your moves!

email me if you want to be involved in this sort of game, and i'll see what
can be done (I'm not very experienced at mastering (yet! :) ))

JimmY "what do you mean i can't move RAF Ola Pola BOMB Berlin !????"

millington_j@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

 O O
\___/
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy,bit.listserv.dipl-l
From: desper@math.rutgers.edu (Rick Desper)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Chaos victory points
Keywords: Monkey, Turkey, Donkey
Date: 11 Jan 93 19:08:55 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


Consider this: the feat of winning is akin to that of winning two
6-player games, in succession.  As such, it would seem that an
appropriate number of victory points would be twice the number of
victory points for a victory in a six-player game.
The leads me to the idea that, in general, the number of victory
points per game should be a logarithmic function of the number of
players, not a linear function.  It would be interesting to
recalculate Hall of Fame victory points, using this idea.  I may just
do that.
					Rick
From: shoham@ll.mit.edu (Daniel Shoham)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Warp Weekday Game
Date: 6 Jan 93 02:32:31 GMT
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory

WARP ON WEEKDAYS, ANYONE?
-------------------------
I see there are many open slots and forming games of the 24 and 48 hour
Warp variety. Some of us would love to join Warp games but have no
computer.net.access on weekends.

Perhaps some weekday Warp games can be started, or games in need of
replacements be modified to not set deadlines during the weekend.


TRANSWARP, ANYONE?
------------------
Also, has anyone ever tried/considered "transwarp" games - say 1 hour
limit? Clearly, all player would have to be from nearby time-zones, and
the game should not be played around the clock. A game like that should do
about 3 years per day and be done within a week or so (by shear exhaustion
- if for no other reason :-) ).

[1 hour moves, 10 minutes retreats, 10 minutes builds. All games start on
Mondays at 9am, no deadlines set outside M-F/9am-5pm local time]

(The Monday 9am bit is in the hope of finishing before the weekend breaks
the continuity of the game).

Transwarp games would provide a middle ground between the 5-minutes/move
Face-to-face version and the 24-hour/move Warp game.

Question to Judge gods: Will Transwarp stretch the judge's resources?


- Any input appreciated.


Dan Shoham               shoham@ll.mit.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The view presented are not necessarily those of my employer, etc.

Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lincoln Laboratory
244 Wood Street
Lexington Massachusetts, 02173-9108
Office B-373
617-981-3515
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: abick@sebastian.carleton.ca (Alan Bick)
Subject: Diplomacy in Ottawa
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 18:10:40 GMT


	Well it's a new year, so I am going to try this again! If there is
anyone living in the Ottawa area who is interested in playing Diplomacy
Face-To-Face on a weekend, please let me know.
	Kendrick seems to have gotten a good response from his plea for a
FTF in Toronto so let's see if we can do the same. I'm thinking about
doing a game on either Saturday or Sunday starting somewhere around noon.
(Anywhere from 11am-2pm start time) until whenever we decide to break.
	Anyone interested can either email me (at abick@sebastian.carleton.ca)
or call me at 721-0620 (if you don't know the area code, you live too far
away!). It's probably a better idea to email me because I play diplomacy a
lot from home so my line is often busy due to the modem.
	I think I can safely say, that I have at least 3 people. (Possibly
as much as five right now.) So we just need a few more people. If you
think you fit the description, let me know.

Alan Bick
From: rilba@stna.dgac.fr (Rilba Guy STNA 7SU p8087 BD24)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Re: Mapping a Chaos game
Date: 4 Jan 93 12:59:23 GMT
Organization: STNA 95 rue Henri Rochefort 91025 Evry Cedex 33(1)60.79.80.00

In article <1993Jan4.091041.17535@infodev.cam.ac.uk>, nad@cl.cam.ac.uk (Neil Dodgson) writes:
> Is it possible to get a map of a Chaos game?  I tried on game
> `everyone' on the EFF judge, and got a "blank" map (no units on the
> board).  It is tedious in the extreme to map a game with 34 players!
> 
> Neil
> ----
> 
> 
> --
> Neil Dodgson,           | E-mail: nad@cl.cam.ac.uk       |    |
> Computer Laboratory,    |                                |   -+-
> Pembroke Street,        | 'phone: Cambridge (0223)334407 |    |
> Cambridge, U.K. CB2 3QG |   International +44-223-334407 |    |

I began to modify the mapit program to allow it to accept chaos results.
Mapping seems to work. The only problem is for writing adjustment reports,
since I did nothing for this.

Should these modifications be of some help to anyone, I would be happy to
e-mail the uuencoded code.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
  Guy RILBA - rilba@stna7.stna.dgac.fr - (33 1) 60.79.80.87

  Service Technique de la Navigation Aerienne - EVRY - FRANCE
-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: c85perwe@IDA.LiU.SE (Per Westling)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Re: Bringing an aspect of Face-To-Face to the judge
Date: 12 Jan 93 08:53:40 GMT
Reply-To: c85perwe@und.ida.liu.se
Organization: CIS Dept, University of Linkoping, Sweden

In article <C0oC09.KBy@world.std.com> kovar@world.std.com (David C Kovar) writes:

>   We were playing Youngstown face-to-face today and were talking about
> some of the differences between FTF and email. One primary one we came
> up with was the lack of knowledge in email games of who is talking to whom.
> It was suggested that the judge be modified to report on who is sending
> messages to whom.

Why?  I don't think the rules say anything about that you should be
aware who is talking to who?  And I think that this is a feature of
postal play, that if both parties want a conversation to be kept
secret that is the case.

Compare this to the "real" situation, where you can make negotiations
secretly.  At least unless some part spy on you.

So I suggest that this should be a variant (like Anonymous, Blind,
First_Winter_builds, whatever) that could be added on to any game.

>   I did a bit more thinking about this, too. If you sent out a message to
> all the players each time a private message was sent, then you'd swamp
> people with email. But how about if there was a summary sent along with
> your current move status that showed you how many times each of the other
> countries had sent email to each of the other countries? The table would
> be reset after each move.

>   This would be an option which could be turned off. I'd probably want it
> as the default, but either way would be fine.

No, not default.

>   Any thoughts, pro or con? Anyone interested in trying to implement it?

By all means go ahead and implement it.  But add is as an optional
rule like press_option.

> -David

--
Per Westling              |
Mardtoprsgatan 15         |  c85perwe@und.ida.liu.se
S-582 48 LINKOPING        |  In praise of Idleness -- Bertrand Russel
SWEDEN                    |
Stuff regarding DPP may be sent to x90perwe@ida.liu.se instead.
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy,bit.listserv.dipl-l
From: irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu (Josh Smith)
Subject: Re: NMR, games with many replacement players, and Hall of Fame
Originator: irilyth@fenris
Organization: Evil Geniuses For A Better Tomorrow
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 05:33:56 GMT

Joel Furr (jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu) writes:

> Speaking as one of the advocates of NMR, I couldn't care less if NMR games
> don't get EP numbers. [snip]

That's really the issue here, not whether NMR games are worthwhile or not. I
think that Youngstown is a severely broken variant, but that doesn't mean I
want to ban it. (I might support making it non-EP, though! Not that I'm
proposing this now, mind you, but I could see a case for it... :^)

> don't expect me and SOME of the rec.games.diplomacy players to agree when
> you claim that these games are the ONLY acceptable version.  

Depends what you mean by "acceptable". If you mean "acceptable to Jamie",
then I'd say he's right, those games are the only acceptable version. If you
mean "acceptable to the standards of EP", well, that's what we're
discussing. If you mean "acceptable in the eyes of the Lord", then you may
be taking Diplomacy too seriously. (grin)

Seriously, though, he's not calling your experience invalid, he's saying
that it shouldn't be part of the EP archives. If you think EP's standards
are stupid, either lobby to change them or ignore them; you sound like you
don't care, so I wouldn't worry about it.

> I don't quite understand the source of your utter hatred for NMR, but I
> think I can safely say that you're not going to get your way in getting
> NMR banned from the judges or whatever crazed agenda you seem to have. 
> Let people play the way they care to play.  

To repeat a prior comment in another group (or perhaps a later one,
depending on what order you read news in): you must chill. No one said
anything about prohibiting NMR games, or burning NMR-players at the stake,
or anything like a "crazed agenda". The only question is whether the EP
house rule against NMR should be changed, and I share you view that it
doesn't matter a whole hell of a lot. EP house rules are a set of standards:
some may find them interesting, useful, or valid, others may not care for
them. But if you don't like them, and don't care about "official
recognition" (this is just a game after all), don't worry about them.

Having said that, I should say that I support the idea of a widely accepted
set of standards. Everyone should realize that abiding by the standards may
not always be useful for everyone--but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be
standards, only that they shouldn't be coercively enforced. I don't think
anyone is into coercion here, at least not off of the Dip map.
-- 
Josh Smith, User Support Coordinator  ::  irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu
Harvey Mudd College, Claremont CA USA ::  consult(std-disclaimer.pl).
"I guess we were all guilty, in a way. We all shot him, we all skinned him,
and we all got a complimentary bumper sticker that said 'I helped skin Bob.'"
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: ryb26@cas.org (Richard A. Ball)
Subject: Re: Suggested mod to judge
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 22:40:53 GMT

positron@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Jonathan Haas) writes:

>Make the judge strip every line of an input file past a line beginning
>with "--", UNLESS those lines would be part of a press message.

any/aft SIGNOFF
	To indicate the end of useful text.  The signoff command is used
	to prevent your signiture file from being interpreted as orders
	and/or being sent out as part of a press message.


I incorporated this into a shell script I use for all communication with the
judge.  On the command line I do for example: press "Austria agrees" < austria
The file austria is sent to the judge between the following two lines:
signon Rnewbie XXXXXXXX
signoff

If I am only looking for information on other games, etc. I would use
on the command line (the -s does not include the signon information)
$ press -s -j a "list of eff"
Mailing to judge@gu.uwa.edu.au (Australia)
list
^D

In each game directory I have a file .dipgame that contains the following
information:
    Power=Russia
    Game=newbie
    CodeName="XXXXXXXXXX"
    Judge=judge@morrolan.eff.org
    Jname="EFF"

This will allow the command to work for more than one game depending on the
current directory you are in.

I'm not sure this will work for anyone running a standard ksh shell (we
do strange things here).  Feel free to use it as an example.   -Rich

#/bin/ksh -x
# submit orders to the judge
unalias print

Usage="Usage: press [-s][-j <judge>] 'Subject ' < <command file>
    s   don't signon
    j   mail to specified judge
	    e*ff
	    w*ashington
	    a*ustralia
	    sa South Africa
	    canada
"

if [[ -r .dipgame ]] ; then
    . .dipgame
fi

signon=true
while getopts :sj: c; do
    case $c in
	s)  unset signon;;
	j)  case $OPTARG in
		e*)  Judge="judge@morrolan.eff.org"    ; Jname="EFF";;
		w*)  Judge="judge@u.washington.edu"    ; Jname="Washington";;
		a*)  Judge="judge@gu.uwa.edu.au"       ; Jname="Australia";;
		sa*) Judge="judge@shrike.und.ac.za"    ; Jname="South Africa";;
		c*)  Judge="umgrimst@ccu.umanitoba.ca" ; Jname="Canada";;

	    esac;;
	*)  echo "$Usage" 1>&2; exit 1;;
    esac
done
shift `expr $OPTIND - 1`

if [[ -n "$signon" ]] ; then
    if [[ -z "$Game" || -z "$CodeName" || -z "$Judge" ]] ; then
	print -u2 "Need more information.  Define in .dipgame or current shell:"
	print -u2 "  Power=$Power\n  Game=$Game\n  CodeName=$CodeName\n  Judge=$Judge"
	exit 1
    fi
else
    if [[ -z "$Judge" ]] ; then
	print -u2 "Need more information.  Define in .dipgame or current shell:"
	print -u2 "  Judge=$Judge"
	exit 1
    fi
fi


if [[ -n "$signon" ]] ; then

    if [[ "$Power" = "India" ]] ; then
	typeset -L1 power=N
    else
	typeset -L1 power=$Power
    fi

    print -u2 "Mailing as $power$Game"
else
    print -u2 "Mailing to $Judge ($Jname)"
fi

message=`cat`

if [[ -n "$signon" ]] ; then
    print "\nsignon $power$Game $CodeName\n$message\nsignoff" | Mail -s "$*" $Judge
else
    print "\n$message\nsignoff" | Mail -s "$*" $Judge
fi





--
ryb26@cas.org
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: kovar@world.std.com (David C Kovar)
Subject: Why judges sometimes go "silent"
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 21:39:36 GMT

  The judge handles most errors in one of two ways - it either reports
the error to the user and tells them to try it over again, or it 
shuts itself down and yells for Daddy. In the former case, the
only person affected is the person who sent in the invalid commands.
(Well, other people may end up waiting on the moves.) In the latter
case, the entire judge ceases to respond and will not process any
moves.

  Why, you ask, does it do this? Because certain errors, if allowed to
go uncorrected, would cause problems to build upon themselves and each
other, creating a snarl that would be difficult to untangle, or at
the very least, would cause a number of "odd" events to occur, affecting
a number of people. Also, if the judge were to continue, the source
of the error, and the solution to the problem, could be masked.

  The only way to get the judge going again is for the judge maintainer
to clear the problem and restart the judge. Since the judge will send
email to the maintainer informing him/her that it is shutting down,
the problem is usually corrected relatively quickly, but there are
times that the maintainer is out of touch for awhile, so you have
to be patient.

  Hope this helps ...

-David