HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li)
Subject: Re: Long live ....Re: old Her[4] and Christine
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:45:05 GMT


In article <BuJHIM.Iq@rlyeh.multisys.com>, rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) writes...
>In article <79644@ut-emx.uucp> joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:
>=
>=One thing that I admire about Sun Yat-Sen was the fact that he tried
>=(and largely succeeded) in getting rid of the anti-Manchu elements of
>=the 1911 revolution.  He could have easily used the Manchus as
>=scapegoats for everything that was wrong with China and portrayed the
>=revolution as a "race war."  He didn't.  Instead, the "min-zu zhu-yi"
>=part of his "three principles" was designed part to reduce ethnic
>=tensions among Chinese.  
>=
> 
>Oh! I admire his smartness too. He used the rascism to invoke
>hatred to help the revolution.

I see, that is how Mr. ROT suggested Holo, Haka to hate WSR, called
Mandarin-speaking people "barbarians", ... etc, racism statements to serve
for his own political purposes. Unfortunately, Mr. ROT is not smart enough 
but has just been making a fool of himself.

>One thing people in Taiwan can not tolerate the criticism
>toward their Heros. These all due to KMT's successful
>brain-washed. Remember how we yell 'long live Chan',
>'long live this', 'long live that'.

Yes, those were wrong but also have gone into the history.

>Some one dares to criticize Chan, even nowaday, will face
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>'freedom to go to jail'.

Mr. ROT must have been sleeping (or in coma) at least for 5 years. Legislator
Chu Kao-Chien (ex-DPPer) once called Chiang Ching-Kuo as last emperor of
ROC several years ago before Chiang Ching-Kuo died. And he is still a
Legislator now. Plenty of books criticizing or humiliating old Chiang and
little Chinag and their families can be found everywhere in Taiwan nowaday.
No one went to jail. So Mr. ROT, how long you have not gone back to Taiwan
or have been sleeping? Since 1960? Otherwise, Mr. ROT, stop lying.

>One thing we know 'long live ..' usually are short live.  ;-)

Three weeks ago, there is a guy yelled "Long live Republic of Taiwan" in
this newsgroup does it mean his "Republic of Taiwan" will be short live, 
Mr. ROT? Maybe it has been dead already because I have not heard it since 
then. :-)
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: a few question about taiwan
Date: 15 Sep 1992 02:16:15 -0500
Organization: Multimedia Information Systems Corporation, San Jose, CA                        TEL: (408) 436-8929            E-mail: info@multisys.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Sep14.170009.11709@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li) writes:
=
=In fact, on August 1, 1992, ROC government redefined "China" and said that 
="At present ROC has sovereignty on Taiwan and several small islands only, 
=PRC has sovereignty on the Mainland China only". ROC has disclaimed those 
=places you have mentioned. So Mr. ROT, you can stop 'poisoning' us about 
=this issue.

Could someone confirm this?

If this is true, it means KMT finally go for TI after
all these years of TI-bashing.  :-)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Subject: Re: The Foreign Minister of PRC said ...
Organization: Multimedia Information Systems Corporation, San Jose, CA                        TEL: (408) 437-3031            E-mail: info@multisys.com
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 15:51:51 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.140235.28515@tamsun.tamu.edu> x0y3510@tamuts.tamu.edu (Xuejun Yang) writes:
=
=You are day-dreaming and living in a fantacy-world having been completely
=fooled by the so-called freedom and democracy propaganda. 
=The truth is that America always acts in its own interests(global 
=geopolytical and economic balance). Freedom and Democray are just
=convenient tools to shut others up, fool people like you, and
=making everyone in this country feel good.
=SO GO ON DAY DREAMING.
=


Sure, American always acts in her own interest and every other
countries in this Earth do the same thing.
Do you think China act in my own interest? And which country
act in Yang's interest?
From: yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: old Her[4] and Christine
Date: 13 Sep 1992 21:21:42 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley
Reply-To: yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.106

In article <79644@ut-emx.uucp> joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:
>
>One thing that I admire about Sun Yat-Sen was the fact that he tried
>(and largely succeeded) in getting rid of the anti-Manchu elements of
>the 1911 revolution.  He could have easily used the Manchus as
>scapegoats for everything that was wrong with China and portrayed the
>revolution as a "race war."  He didn't.  Instead, the "min-zu zhu-yi"
>part of his "three principles" was designed part to reduce ethnic
>tensions among Chinese.  

Joe,

I'm struck by your tendency to interpret things as you wish them to
be (re: Confucius, Chinese nationalism, Chinese Americans, etc. :-)). 
Here you're presenting Sun Yatsen as the promoter of racial harmony, 
whereas I recall him as stridently anti-Manchu until events 
after the Revolution demonstrated to him that the Manchus were 
irrelevant and that his primary opponents were Yuan Shikai 
and other warlords. The _minzhu zhuyi_ component of his "Three 
People's Principles" had a checkered past from starting as an 
anti-Manchu slogan in 1905, to omitted in the 1914 party platform, 
and finally recast in Sun's last years under Soviet influence into 
an anti-imperialism banner. 

I think Sun Yatsen _did_ use Manchus as the scapegoats to build
up the Tongmenghui (see below), but he stopped after 1911 not 
from any grand vision, but because he had his hands full with
other things. However, an unfortunate aftermath of the early
anti-Manchu rhetoric, much of it promoted by Sun's revolutionaries,
was the massacre of Manchu garrisons in a number of cities 
(I recall Nanjing in particular), and the denial of Manchu
ancestry that has persisted until at least the 50's.

Joe Huang

Excerpts of the Tongmenhui Manifesto of 1905 relating to the Manchus :

"Now the National Army ...aims to cleanse away 260 years of barbarous
filth, restore our 4000-year old fatherland... Now the men of Han
have raised a righteous army to exterminate the northern barbarians...
Therefore we proclaim to ... (1) Drive out the Tartars... Those
Manchu and Chinese military men who .. come over to us will be granted
amnesty, while those who dare to resist will be slaughtered...
(2) Restore China...After driving out the Tartars we must restore 
our national state... (3) Establish the republic...  (4) Equalize 
land ownership..., etc.
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: RE: Republic of Formosa
Date: 10 Sep 1992 19:47:49 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Republic of Formosa
Summary: 
Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: Multimedia Information Systems Corporation, San Jose, CA                        TEL: (408) 436-8929            E-mail: info@multisys.com
Keywords: 

In article <1992Sep6.100250.29793@csd.brispoly.ac.uk> c_tsai@csd.brispoly.ac.uk (C Tsai) writes:

I do not support Taiwan Independent, because Taiwan IS an independent
country. I don't care whether people in Taiwan want to change
the name of their nation or not as long as it is their own choice.
It is not KMT's DDP's or CCP's choice that Taiwan have to or
have not to change their own name.

I support people in Taiwan force KMT to drop KMT's claim -
"KMT owns KMT's Tibet, Mongolia and Mainland China".
Taiwanese does not need to take blame(invasion from PRC) for
KMT's misconduct which cause CCP's invading Taiwan.

Repeat, Taiwan is an independent country and there has no need
to independent again. As to KMT's misconducts which cause
Taiwan's current diplomatic situation, after Taiwanese has
their own real democratic government, they will have
criminal trials to look over KMT's misconducts all those years.

Anyone has to pay for what they done. That's justice.

AS to CCP and PRC, no matter what reason they have to
declare a war to invade Taiwan, Taiwanese will fight
for what ever price they have to pay even destroy the
Earth. Taiwanese will never let blood thirsty CCP get
away once they start invading Taiwan.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: u322543@twncu865.ncu.edu.tw
Subject: sending money from overseas
Organization: Computer Center, NCU, Taiwan, R.O.C.
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 09:10:17 GMT

Hi Everyone!

I hope someone here can help me with this, regarding sending
money from overseas to a company in Taiwan.  Does anyone know how
it's usually done (with as little service charge as possible :) ?
I have tried to use my personal check (by a US bank), and it works
for some company but not for others.  Any information is greatly
appreciated!  Much thanks in advance!

Jennifer

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: yu@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (YU TING TO)
Subject: Pressure from U.S. goverment
Summary: U.S. Goverment put pressure on Taiwan's intent to buy Mirage 2000  from
Keywords: U.S. Pressure Mirage 2000
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 05:40:17 GMT

Hi, netters:

     I heard the radio news from Taiwan this afternoon, that U.S. goverment
is putting pressure  to the Taiwan authority on the decision of buying Mirage 
2000-5 from French. The reason they used was 'Not to upset China Mainland too
much, and to avoid the weapon competition on Asia', besides that U.S. already
agree to sale F-16 A/B to Taiwan.

      My own opinion is American just don't want Taiwan get out from his own
pocket, never memtion that French gave us 70% discount for that aircraft. I
hope this time Taiwan won't compromise with U.S. and buy Mig-29 from Soviet,
too.

      So, if everything goes well, Taiwan will have
      F-16 A/B       150  and
      Migage 2000-5   60  and
      Mig-29          30  and
      F-5E           250  and
      F-104          100  ?

What a air force we have then !
From: yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: comments on Movie "First Date" by Peter Wang
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:26:55 GMT
Reply-To: yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang)
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.106

Hi, folks...

I just saw the movie "First Date", written and directed by Peter Wang
(Wang Cheng-fang == Wang Zhengfang).  It's a sort of "Summer of '42" 
type of film about teenagers going through puberty in Taiwan in the 
1950's. This is Peter Wang's third film, following "A Great Wall"
and "Laserman". The movie is semi-autobiographical. From what I 
know of Peter, his family was originally from Hebei (which accounts
for his perfect Beijing accent), but he grew up in Taiwan before 
coming to study in the US.

I thought the movie was entertaining, but at times disjointed and
lacking focus.  I would like to hear what people from Taiwan think 
of this film in terms of its veracity, capturing the mood of the 50's,
etc.

Joe Huang
From: tao@balboa.eng.uci.edu (Eric Yihching Tao)
Subject: Re: BSR and WSR
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 15 Sep 92 07:41:09 GMT

In article <25825@castle.ed.ac.uk> ejuv11@castle.ed.ac.uk (Min Tseng) writes:
>>it is the written language as well. Unlike cantonese or Taiwanese, those are
>>more  spoken languages.
>>
>>Eric
>This statement is certainly not true.  Before introducing Madarin for an
>official language by the goverment, people used to write Han-Ji by the
>pronunciation of Taiwanese or Cantonese.  We have been taught to
>associate the sound and figure for Madarin, however, if the children
>have been taught to associate Taiwanese with Chinese character, they
>will never able to see Madarin as a written language and Taiwanese is
>only a spoken language.
>Ask some Taiwanese experts, they will put everything you spoke in
>Taiwanese into Chinese characters if you like.
>
>-Min

Be reasonable. I am talking about the languages people are actually using. If
you really push your idea, every chinese dialect can be associate with characters. 

Just to name few example of my statement, about 15 years ago, there was a 
movement in Taiwan, a lot of writer try to using strickly Taiwanese in their
novels, some sounds which could not be writen, they have to use words that 
similar to the sound in Taiwanese. Another example, have you read newspapers
from HongKong, some short articles was writen in that way, too. Those are 
surely hard to understand by anyone other than cantoneses.

Try it yourself, read an chinese article in Taiwanese, you will understand.

BTW, don't get me wrong, I speak Taiwanese, too. A lot of ideas come alive 
using Taiwanese. (although whenever I speak, people laugh at me :-( )

Eric
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: 129.83.161.10 (H. Chao)
Subject: Re: Question about TI
Organization: MITRE
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:58:18 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.184003.13622@zip.eecs.umich.edu>, cyc@z.eecs.umich.edu
(Yi-Chieh Chang) writes:
> 
> >>Well, I WAS a TI supportor.  Maybe I was too young.  I used to support
> >>Dang3(party)Wai4(outer) and donate my money to them back to the 70's.  When
> >>I came to U.S. I still jointed TI meetings. Ironically , I found a rule
> >>"CCP= KMT= TI".  
> >>It is strange they fight each other, but they are so similar.  They are so
> >>narrow minded, they are so power hunger, and they are so blood thirsty. 
> >>Somebody tell me it is Chinese nature, and they are Chinese so they share
> >>the same character.  Somebody say it is human nature.  People got to "eat"
> >>people that is the way to eliminate the "weaker" and keep the society
> >>stronger.  Somebody say it is animal nature.  See even monkeys in the zoo
> >>will fight for power.
> >> 
> >>To those minorities (mainders, Hakkas, and Native Taiwanese) in Taiwan, my
> >>suggestion is that vote for your own independence from TIers and build your
> >>own country/countries.  Do NOT expect TIers will treat you fair.  That is
> >>my experence, a costly experence.  Good Luck.
> >
> 
> I have no doubt about people are hunger for power and money, even at U.S.
> we can see the same story such as George Bush.
> But, the question is when we have choice between candicates or two parties,
> even a minority group may have strong enfluence on the outcome of a close
> election. So, the best thing for Taiwanese including minorities is to have
> two strong parties that can compete fairly to each other. Then, I bet every
> single man or woman will be respected and asked to vote for either party, 
> because the win and lose may be differed by one vote.
> However, under current cituation, KMT can largely ignore 10% to 20%
> minorities but still win most of the elections. So, no matter how bad DPP
> might be, it will definitely be much better than what we have now, with no
> choice.

Lu3Xun4(?) said "before revolution (1911), I was a salve; after revolution,
I was cheated by those slaves and become a slave's slave."  Is that means
we got to be a slave's slave's slave's
slave......
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: 129.83.161.10 (H. Chao)
Subject: Re: Independence of Taiwan: a Suggestion
Organization: MITRE
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 13:40:39 GMT

In article <Bu7Mr0.JHB@multisys.com>, rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
writes:
> 
> In article <1992Sep3.153238.1512@linus.mitre.org> 129.83.161.10 (H. Chao) writes:
> =Do you think your story is also only one case?!  I don't want to argue this
> =is one case or two cases.  My suggestion to TIer is that: If you want TI,
> =then give the minorities (Mainlander, Hakka, native Taiwanese) a chance to
> =express their political point of view.  If these minorities want joint the
> 
> Sounds like ROC is gonverned by dictatorship TIers who do not
> allow freedom of speech. 
> Should you at least wait until TI-ers have the control of the ROC 
> to make that kind of argument?
> 
> But since you made the argument, change TI to KMT would make
> a lot of sense, because KMT is the guy in power, KMT is
> the guy who suppresses minorities, KMT is the guy who
> jails the freedom og speech.
> 
> So if you replace TI with KMT in your argument, then it all
> fit perfectly.  ;-(
> 
> =new ROT, it is fine.  However, if these minorities do NOT want joint ROT,
> =TIer should respect their right and give them a chance to establish their
> 
> I really hope KMT can do what you said. At least KMT should
> give majority a chance to build their own country, not to
> mention minority.  ;-(
> 
> =own contry/contries.  Give a vote to these minorities to decide their own
> =future.  Do you think it is too much to
> =ask??!!
> 
> KMT does not even allow a population vote. As to your idea
> of minority vote. What a crazy idea!
> I myself, a single minority. Is KMT going to give
> me freedom to build my own country in Taiwan?
> 
> Are you sure you that you only have a drink?
> Sounds intoxiated to me. Take a cab. Don't drive.
> 
> 

Besides unification with mainland China and TI/IT, I think another
possibility is to build multi-countries in Taiwan.  If you do not like this
idea you can debate, but do not say I am drunk.  TIers are so narrow minded
and this is the reason I said (CCP = KMT = TI).  All of them can not
tolerate different ideas. 
Ironically, they fight each other and they are so
similar!!!
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: BSR and WSR
Date: 13 Sep 1992 23:45:44 -0500
Organization: Multimedia Information Systems Corporation, San Jose, CA                        TEL: (408) 436-8929            E-mail: info@multisys.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

=In article <BuJ81z.LI4@rlyeh.multisys.com> rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) writes:
=>For example, who causes ROC isolated from other country and
=>who is continue to cause ROC's isolated diplomatic
=>relation with other countries.
=
=>This is certainly a crime being committed against the welfare
=>of the people in the Taiwan.

In article <79655@ut-emx.uucp> joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:
=
=Using the ROC Criminal Code or the Criminal Code of any other place,
=could you tell me exactly what crime has been committed and what the
=sentence should be for that crime?  Charging someone with "crimes
=committed against the welfare of the people in Taiwan," sounds a lot
=like charging someone with "counterrevolution" or "holiganism."
=
People seems love to get into technicality.
People always can make laws not the other way around.
The way Joe argued is the law can not be touched.

My 'For example' has already given one reason to think about it.
As to people think it is not enough or people want to add
more reason or whatever, people always can discuss and
conclude it. What I did is just inicate a possibility
of those people might commit a crime to the warefare
of Taiwanese.

People may decide it is not or it is a crime. It certainly
not up to me to decide it.  :-)(I certainly won't mind
to have this klind of power.)

Acturally, sometimes we have to use our common sense
to judge it and most of the laws are coming from the
common sense. To be more clear, law is a formal
form of common sense or common morality.

KMT always can argue that KMT is the god, KMT's law
can not be changed, KMT's constitution can not be
changed, KMT's government structure can not be
changed....

Let's see it can be changed or not.
I certainly will be the promoter of new law upon
those people who commit crimes against Taiwanese welfare.
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Tuesday, 15 Sep 1992 16:08:33 CDT
From: <U38250@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject:    Ancient terrotory of China ? Who cares ?

I was suprised by my recent netnews list in this group when I opened it up.
More than three pages of articles with the same subject (Ancient Terrotory
of China ...) were on there by the same author. Moreover, every article
was repeated four or five times.

Well, I can't help but admire this person for his/her patience in posting
them (all the typing thing) and his/her effort in doing this reseach.

Two questions here :

1) If he/she wants to teach people Chinese history, What's the reason for
posting every article so many times? It just doesn't make sense.
(I could've found the articles I wanted to read more quickly without having
to pass so many of those.)

2) If he/she wants to show people that Taiwan, Mogolia, Korea, or even
Vietnam used to belong to China, and thus, argued that Taiwan or Mongolia
should not be independent, what does "Ancient" terrotory of China have
anything to do with modern world ?  Most European countries used to belong
to Roman Empire and that is "HISTORY" !
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: BSR and WSR
Date: 13 Sep 1992 14:44:46 -0500
Organization: Multimedia Information Systems Corporation, San Jose, CA                        TEL: (408) 436-8929            E-mail: info@multisys.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Sep13.134406.3727@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li) writes:
=
=I think WSR should learn at least some Holo beacuse its popularity in Taiwan. 
=(Paticularly, if they want to be salespeople or politicans). I also think it 

No, they SHOULD not, but they can choose to learn.

=is a good idea to have one language that everyone should speak fluently, ie., 

It is also a good idea to force everyone on earth to speak one tone. ;-)

=a common language. I dont mind if it is a English, Holo, or Mandarin as long 
=as most people agree to. Otherwise, how many different dialects do we have in 
=Taiwan now? And if there is no common language how are we going to communicate 

How many different dialests, language and whatever you name it on the
Earth now.

=to each other? Also we should protect other dialects, schools can provide 

People on the Earth seems to communicate with each other pretty
well, why would people in Taiwan so different from the people on
the Earth?
Especially in the UN, no one complains about communication problem
and no one dares to propose one tone only policy in th UN.  ;-)

=optional language courses to those who are interested also media provide 
=enough spaces for them, etc...
=
=One common language with coexistence of all languages.

Next one will be one common gender.
I guess I am in favor of freedom of choice. I hate someone
force me to do something I don't want to.

=As for Mandarin, Mandarin is not mothertongue to most of WSRs in Taiwan and 
=certainly is not mine either. But everyone in Taiwan can speak Mandarin now. 
=You may argue it is KMT language policy by mistakes. But remember 2000 
=years ago, Chin dynasty unified the Chinese characters so we are all benefit 
=from it now. Can you imagine the government has to publish a document with 
=many different kind of characters?

I don't see any problem in the UN and some other multilinguals countries.

=I know language is very emotional issue but if you see it as just a 
=communication tool. English is now commonly used as a communication tool 
=for speaking/writing at most of international conferences but not Mandarin 
=and many of us take that well and dont feel any inferior about our language 
=and Chinese/Han characters.

Exactly, it is a tool, then why you want to force other
to use the tool you think it is the best. Maybe other
people loves to use other tool. So it is a 'freedom
of choice' and 'freedom of dictatorship'.

=
=Any comments?
From: An-Ly Yao <anlyyao@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Date: 04 Sep 92 06:46 PDT
Subject: Re: Economical Statistics...
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1474900020:000:273
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!anlyyao    Sep  4 06:46:00 1992



The term "bullshit measure" I can't find in my dictionary, please explain  :-)

The US by the way  i s  weaker. They of course can sell at cheaper prices,
but my country fellows (Germans) and others can go shopping easily, also
for the big chunks - companies.

bye, Goetz

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong