From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: Emissions Inspections, is new really be
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:41:06 GMT

freedman@cs.colostate.edu (keith freedman) writes:
>you seem unconcerned about the environmental toll here.  Anyways, if
>supply dwindles, we'll just tear up the alaskan wildlife refuge to get

I am not unconcerned about the environmental problem.  I am
trying to show that there are more reasons to raise gas prices
than just pollution or to pay off national debt (albiet I'm
having a tough time trying to express it clearly).  The enire
mindset of this country *seems* to be bigger is better, more
is better.  The prevailing attitude is "grow, grow, grow", but
uncontrolled growth is not good.  People can still be prosperous
with a slow rate of growth.  Cheap gas promotes "grow, grow,
grow".

Cheap gas prices are creating a global economy.  And I don't think
a global economy is good.  I think that local economies are better.
I think buying a coffee table from a local craftsman is better than
getting the state of the art Swedish coffee table made from bula-bula
wood (don't view this as the typical "buy American"/"Pride in
America" attitude, that is not what I'm getting at).  Having
stuff shipped from all over the world is just another link that
can break down.  The price of everything suddenly becomes subject
to the price of gas.

kucharsk@solbourne.com (William Kucharski) writes:
>Great, then let's do it by market forces.  Regarless of what you may think
>about Amoco, Mobil, Shell and the rest, do you think that when oil supplies
>run low they'll say "hey, that was fun, let's close now"?  They'll put more
>and more research into alternative fuels and producing them at prices as
>close as possible to what we now pay for gas.  They'll need to do it to
>survive, something which is a goal for most companies...

My opinion of Oil companies is irrelevant.  This seems to
exemplify the "let's just look at one side of the equation"
attitude.  When GNP goes up everybody goes "yeah".  GNP is
like looking at a P&L without the Stockholder's Equity section.
It doesn't show resource depletion.  Petroleum has a geoligic
renewal rate.


fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
>However, I _like_ finding fresh food on the shelves (even in winter).
>That requires shipping from other parts of the country (possible
>because of cheap energy). 

Energy is not the only thing produced from petroleum.  Plastics
and nylon are other big items.  These will all have to be replaced
also besides gasoline.


>>I don't consider having to get in my car and driving 1 mile to the
>>store a "high standard".

>Then walk: It shouldn't take more than 20 minutes (in fact walking
>about a mile is how I usually shop.)

I do frequently (ride my bike).  Maybe this wasn't a perfect example.

I consider going to a local pub and seeing a good local band a
higher-standard than going to see Eric Clapton at some large venue.
The things that some people believe are a "higher standard" are
really a lower standard.

I'm sure my position is crystal clear now.  ;^)

--Chris
Newsgroups: co.general