From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Subject: Re: Alexei, you ignore the democratic EUROPEAN institutions!
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 10:59:43 GMT

In article <12023@sorley.ed.ac.uk>, alexei@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Alexei Moiseyev) 
writes:
> Mr.Hietaniemi writes:

>>I would sure like to hear your somments on the CSCE observer groups
>>review of Estonia. See my postings above.
> 
> I have said it many times and I shall say it again.  I am concerned
> with moral issues here.  And when various legal bodies contradict
> moral principles, it's all the worse for them.  Their credibility is
> undermined.  
> And quite generally, I hold that nationalism is, more often than not,
> untagonistic to morality and democracy.  (For a laboured discussion of
> this point see I.Berlin.  Two concepts of Liberty).


Of course, I have read good old Isaiah. But I think I will discuss no
philosophical issues here (I will choose a better platform for that
activity. Discussing philosophy here would be as rational as holding a
lecture of political philosophy of nationalism and patrioticism 
before the Finskij Vokzal).


You are still evading the question, how do you find the evaluations
of the international observers on Estonia. The Conference on Security
Co-operation in Europe has, for the time being, reached the following
conclusion, if this piece of news is correct:

(The following is my previous posting:)


>>            CSCE OBSERVER AND HUMAN RIGHTS EXPERTS REVIEW ESTONIA
>>
>> From December 2-6, a CSCE Office for Democratic Institutions and
>> Human Rights (ODIHR) Experts Mission visited Estonia in order to
>> survey human rights conditions. The mission was composed of
>> Klaus To"rnudd and Pa"ivi Kaukoranta from the Finnish Foreign
>> Ministry, Ulrich Bradenburg from the German Foreign Ministry,
>> ODIHR Deputy Director Jack Zetkulic and was led by Professor
>> Christian Tomushat of Bonn University. The mission met with
>> Riigikogu Speaker U"lo Nugis, Deputy Speaker Tunne Kelam and
>> Deputy Speaker Edgar Savisaar. On December 3, the mission visited
>> northeast Estonia, a region where Russian speakers are a
>> northeast Estonia, a region where Russian speakers are a
>> majority, and met with representatives of Virumaa Information
>> Centre and Vladimir Chuikin, chair of the Narva City Council.
>> When the mission met with President Lennart Meri on December 5,
>
> The conclusion:
>
>> the experts stated that the main problem is the lack of
>> information the Russian speaking community receives regarding
>> Estonian politics and questions which directly affect them.


Please comment this interesting piece of news.


Hietaniemi:
>> Estonia will be evaluated in the near future by the United Nations
>>Human Rights monitoring group. 
> 
> Isn't it prejudjing things a bit?


I fail to understand your comment totally.
Come back, when you have some arguments.

 
>>Don't you think that Russia should also invite such visitors?
> 
> I wouldn't mind.  But this is not necessary.  No allegations have been
> made concerning Human rights abuses in Russia today.


That is YOUR opinion. Like the statement that IT IS NOT NECESSARY
to invite United Nations Human rights monitoring group to Russia.
Here we totally disagree. Russia could need such a group.

Estonia needs it anyway. Remember, that Estonia invited itself the 
monitoring groups to Estonia (because of the chauvinist Russian 
propaganda war: they need a third party that could observe and 
evaluate the situation).

The democratic development in Eastern Europe is deeply connected
with institutions like CSCE, European Council and United Nations,
which promote democracy and human rights.

According to my opinion (and this view is shared by many Europeans)
exactly these organizations should meadiate in political skirmishes and
evaluate the achievements in the fields of democracy and human
rights.

Alexei, on which side are you? Do you accept the positive role
of these institutions in Eastern Europe or do you agree with
your "comrade" Viznyuk, who called the Council of Europe "bullshit"?
(I can quote his previous postings, if you do not believe that
this is his real opinion. Personally, I ended my discussion with
Mr Viznyuk when he uttered his opinions on the Council of Europe).

asks
the convinced supporter of the Helsinki process
Tapani Hietaniemi, Universitas Helsingiensis
                   urbs fennorum

Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.europe