HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: doug@telly.on.ca (Doug Young)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Filk vs. Recreation
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:34:08 GMT
Organization: Somewhere just far enough out of Toronto

Unto all of the gentles of the Rialto unto whom these presents come,
does Lord Justinian Clarus Send Greetings!

Good gentles who have been following this thread, as it unrolls from
the spool which is the dream we all share, pray attend to these few
simple words I pass your way.

For those who have written to me about my use of the term
AUTHENTICTY POLICE, I send apologies for the offence but do not
withdraw the statement.  There are a small select group within the
society, and I pray that you note the adjectives small and select,
who do attempt to dictate to others what their fun shall be. If the
boot fits your foot then you must wear it.  If not then the term does
not apply, and is not directed.

I am not now, nor have I ever, advocating that in period dance styles are
not fun.  My lady and I dance whenever we can, though she for some reason
hates the Saltarello.  I at times teach dance, especially in large noisy
halls for my voice can quiet same.  I admit that my other pursuits do not
let me spend the time to learn more period dance, though with time this
will come.  I am not a "dance master" nor will likely become one.  

Yes, I like hole in the wall.  SO SHOOT ME.  I also like virtually all
English County Dance.  I like most bransles, some pavans and Scotland the
Brave.

I task all period dance enthusiasts to teach those like me period dance.
And If you have to use Hole In The Wall to get people out of their
stupors and onto the dance floor, do it.  But keep it short.  I will say
that some bransles are equally as effective however at getting people up.

The most important thing is finding the opportunities to dance.
I have had some success by using the interminable waits before feast and 
court to run dance.  You have people at hand, with time and usually a place.

Thank you, one and all for these conversations as I row down this winding
stream.  It is not often I get so many rocks thrown at me by so many
gentles of such precedence.
+---------------------------------------+------------------------------------+
| Justinian Clarus, a humble herald in  | Douglas Young                      |
| the service of the Principality of    | doug@telly.on.ca                   |
| Ealdormere, the Middle Kingdom and    | ..!uunet!attcan!telly!doug         |
| a life dedicated to fighting          | Orangeville, Ontario, Canada       |
| feasting and frivolity                | (519) 942-2514                     |
+---------------------------------------+------------------------------------+
From: salley@niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Filk vs. Recreation (was Re: out-of-period dancing)
Date: 7 Nov 92 06:37:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: niktow.1678
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

Justinian Clarus writes:
> Richard Britnel of Salisbury writes
> RB: Allow me to draw a parallel.  I am as interested in 18th century European
> RB: culture as I am in 16th century.  Yet I do not expect to be allowed to
> RB: appear at an SCA event wearing garb from the 18th century.  
> 
> In fact the autocrat would have corporate grounds to ask you to change your
> clothes.  One on the three requirements to attend SCA events is an ATTEMPT 
> at pre 1600 garb.

But it *IS* an attempt at early garb, it's just not a very good one! ;-)
Seriously, if someone came to one of our events in 18th century garb, we 
would probably assume he was a newbie who borrowed something from a theatre
group and simply offer him something from the Gold Key rack.  If he declined,
I don't think he'd be forced.  I suspect the stares would change his mind.

                                                       - Dagonell

SCA Persona : Lord Dagonell Collingwood of Emerald Lake, CSC, CK, CTr
Habitat	    : East Kingdom, AEthelmearc Principality, Rhydderich Hael Barony
Disclaimer  : A society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.
Internet    : salley@niktow.cs.canisius.edu
USnail-net  : David P. Salley, 136 Shepard Street, Buffalo, New York 14212-2029
Pirates of the Carribean Event - Dec 12 - Rhydderich Hael - Write for details.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: haslock@rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock)
Subject: Re: Arrow-making
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 18:44:18 GMT


Point 1. The romans used draw plates to form wire so the concept of making a
	 dowel by pulling it through a a steel plate with holes in it is 
	 reasonable.

Point 2. Military arrows were slightly fatter in the middle than at the ends
	 and so could not have been made that way.

Point 3. I suggested before that the thickening could be a result of the
	 shaft flexing away from the tool in a lathe. If I had access to a
	 wood lathe I wood try turning arrows to see if this is practical.
	 (Also 36" is an exaggeration. As best I can tell, a clothyard is
	  28" which should be adequate for the majority of medieval archers.)

Point 4. I believe that wood turning lathes are older than the acceptance of
	 the longbow as a weapon of war.

Point 5. Unless you are into bulk production of arrows for the army, there is
	 little need to worry about the inefficiencies of whittling arrows into
	 shape.

I would like to hear of evidence to support or refute this theory. Hand waving
is not evidence.

	Fiacha
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Oaths of Fealty
Date: 4 Nov 92 15:27:40 GMT


 MS> In the modern SCA, of course, offers of Peerage come rarely, and one
 MS> generally accepts or rejects them regardless of what one thinks of
 MS> the Royalty in question.  And, were I king (not likely at all, thank
 We also have another condition that was (usually) not available to the 
 medieval fealty-swearer -- if we don't like the crown that's offering 
 the accolade, we know that there'll be another one along in a few 
 months.  *We* aren't swearing a life-long oath, unless we personally 
 desire to do so.
     I believe I recall that monarchs occassionally required{ renewals 
 of p$oaths (very vaguely remembered), but I don't think that has much 
 bearing on the rather different connotations of an SCA oath......
     Gwenllian CfM

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)
Subject: Re: Filk vs. Recreation (was Re: out-of-period dancing)
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:06:06 GMT

I wrote:

>Step Stately is "a long dance for 3, 4, 7, or 9 couple".

That should be 5, not 4.  Sorry.  I wouldn't post concerning a typo normally,
but this is one is potentially misleading.

Ellisif
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon)
Subject: Mr. Thompson's linen comments and bowstrings
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:11:00 GMT

*I would *love* to have the ordering info for your good linen source!!**

Bowstrings are fiber/wax composites; it would take a *lot* to get
a proper flemish splice bowstring's fiber's wet.  (reccomended
procedures inculded dipping the finished bowstring in meltd wax,
which is said to improve evenness of coverage.  It *does* improve
final circularity of the string.)

Modern linen cobbler's thread seems to do a fine job of making
medium poundage strings; I've been using Barbour No. 40 3 Cord
thread, 48 strands to the string.  This gives a string about
3/32 nds in dia., which one layer of serving makes 1/8 thick.
This is for a modern composite longbow with an ~70# draw at 32".
(It's more likely 68# or so, but guessing high when making the
string seemed like a good idea.)

The strings for the new bow are going to have to be silk; I
don't expect I can readily get linen strong enough to make a
string thin enough to be useful.

The thumb rule for strings is to make them 5 times as strong
as the draw weight of the bow; I've been measuring breaking
weight of thread by using the thread to pick up hammers.  Seems
to work.
(eg: 60# bow, 5# test thread, you need 60 strands of thread
in the string because 60 x 5# = 300#, five times the draw
weight of the bow.  or, 48 strands x 7# = 336#, which is
a bit less than 350# (five times draw weight), but no problem
so far.)

Graydon, who hopes that was suitably substantial.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Subject: Re: shoe biz
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Distribution: rec
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:16:47 GMT

In article <GLEASON.92Nov4132056@scf16.scf.loral.com> gleason@scf16.scf.loral.com (Robert Gleason) writes:
>
>Also, you could try making them yourself. I made a pair out of 6oz leather
>and latigo soles using a stitching awl. I make a pattern taken from pictures
>and prototype it in paper and cloth. The shoes I made look a heck of a lot
>better that mocs. Especially with my cotehardies.

There is a dance practice shoe made by Capezio that ressembles a patten
very well. This is NOT the shoe that looks like a ballet slipper, but
is different. It's made up of three pieces of suede, comprising the sole,
the heel, and the toe covering. You will, of course, have to replace the
elastic with a leather or rawhide thong, or you could use a ribbon. The
shoe has a specific name, and I'm sorry, but I can't recall it right now.
Go to a place that sells dance equipment (preferably some place that caters
to modern dancers) and ask to see the Capezio catalogue. This is a very
comfortable shoe.

Alternately, I have seen many people build up a period shoe using a modern
shoe. A project I have planned is to make a pair of Mongolian boots, but
I will build them up over a pair of my old Rockports. Nothing like a little
arch support when trudging around Pennsic.

In service,
Corun


-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra    |    My opinions *are* those of my boss, because
  Dark Horde by birth  |   he is me, and I am he, and we are all together.
    Moritu by choice   |                 Coo coo cachoob.
From: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Perceptions of the SCA
Date: 7 Nov 1992 00:01:10 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I wrote:

>>I plan on writing to the Board of Directors about this perception of the
>>SCA by the academic medievalist community, but I'm interested in getting
>>the opinions of others.  Is it important what real medievalists think
>>about the SCA, and how do we go about changing the perception?

To which Iain Odlin responded:

>  Would I be wrong in assuming that you feel as they do, seeing as how you 
>  have called them "real medievalists" (as opposed to us "fake medievalists")?

I should have put the word "real" in quotes (as I just did), or perhaps
used "professional" or "academic".  Sorry for the confusion.

Mikjal Annarbjorn
-- 
Michael A. Chance          St. Louis, Missouri, USA    "At play in the fields
Work: mc3078@sw1sta.sbc.com                             of St. Vidicon"
Play: bq434@cleveland.freenet.edu
      mchance@nyx.cs.du.edu
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:19:46 EST
From: John A. Jordan Ii. <JJ9262A@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Renn Faire overlap

  Speaking as a participant in both Markland and the SCA I think I can say
that so far as the common mass of participants are concerned, everything's
just fine.  Most of the Markland Frat Fighters (if not all) are also active
in the SCA.  Many of the Markland artisans and scholars are also active in
the SCA.  In the Virginia, Maryland, DC area, there is a sort of unofficial
progression that 'draws' people into the SCA.  First people join Dagorhir,
a foam-fighting group that allows warriors to start at age 16 (padded weapons
make for easier insurance) and then they join Markland which place more
emphasis on historical research, and then, finally, they move into the SCA.
I'm a frat fighter myself and 95% of us are just a bunch of swordjocks, but
we have a blast.  You may have heard of some of the Markland groups:
The Free Company of Anglesea (AKA: The Rainbow Warriors "Snaaaackbar!") and
Kinderfodder.

          Jester of Anglesea, The Monotone Bard.
          MKA: Tony Jordan.

Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 11:26:55 -0500 
From: David Schroeder <ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Does the SCA need to be 'educational'?

Hi Yaakov (and the rest of the Bridge)...

You quoted from a particularly intricate Byzantine document:

>Sec. 501(c)(3) of the U.S. tax code states:
>"corporations...organized and operated exclusively
>for religious, charitable, scientific, testing for
>public safety, literary, or educational purposes,
>or to foster national or international amateur sports..."

>The IRS quite jealously guards these categories.
>If you do not fit one of these pigeon holes,
>you are not a 501(c)(3). Finito. End of discussion.

I'm curious.  Would we qualify, today, under fostering
national and international amateur sports, if we put 
forward that SCA combat was a sport?  I wonder...

Thanks -- Bertram

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Bertram of Bearington                                      Dave Schroeder
Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East               Carnegie Mellon University
INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu                         412/731-3230 (Home)
+------------------------ PREME * Press On * PREME ---------------------+
      "He indulged in every excess, yes in each licentious whim..." 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Homage, Fealty, and Tommyrot
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:42:06 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!

My thanks for Hossein for the discussion of fealty and homage.  I would
like to reply to your analysis:

> There is no extant medieval example... of a person receiving any of the
> orders of knightood which Arval cited who was not already a knight...

This is incorrect.  I recommend to your attention Boulton's "The Knights of
Crown", which is the most thorough and scholarly discussion of medieval
orders of knighthood.  He notes several examples of orders which accepted
non-knights into their membership.  In some cases, companionship included a
knighthood; in others it did not.  Some of the orders even had ladies as
companions.

> Furthermore, the analogy in the SCA ought to be between peerages and
> feudal tenure, not between SCA knighthood and medieval knighthood (until
> the 12th century knighthood was not a sign of noble or gentle birth -- it
> was a sign of being hired as muscle by a local castellan).

This statement begs the central question: How SCA knightly fealty should be
treated depends on what historical model we accept as the basis for SCA
knighthood (and for peerage in general).  The choice has significant
implications on what fealty and homage will mean.  Hossein, you clearly
have a strong opinion on what this choice ought to be, but it is by no
means an obvious choice.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bnostran@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Solveig Throndardottir)
Subject: Re: visible inauthenticity of archery
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 01:03:45 GMT

Nobles!

I am sorry, but I am starting to feel rather put upon by the wholesale
condemnation of SCA archery.  I can not claim to be a good archer, I
can not even claim to be the best equiped arcer.  I will say that when
I started archery back in AS XI I tried to get the closest thing to
a long bow that I could find and after the thing finally failed I tried
to get another relatively sticky bow.  I shoot arrows off my hand
(there is no arrow rest on either bow) the strings at least do not look
like they belong on a guitar or a fishing pole and well I simply can
not afford arrows with tied on points right now so (sigh) I do use
field points.  The Carolingian shoot was established over a decade ago
by Mistress Marian and uses medieval square targets and that is what
I learned to shoot at.  I used to have a full hand shooting glove but
that dissappeared so I will confess to using finger tabs at the moment.
Li Kung Lo advised me not to try to shoot a heavier bow than about the
weight that I currently shoot so I did not go for a hevier bow.
I am in archery for the feeling of shooting at target with arrows.  I
try to shoot safely and even hit the target.  That is about it.  As
for the attitudue of medieval archery, at the time the Carolingian Company
of Bowmen was established, Mistress Marian asserted that medieval
practices consisted of all the bowmen in town showing up after church
on Sunday on the village green with their bow and their one arrow, they
would shoot at a but on one side of the green, walk over retrieve their
arrow shoot at the but on the opposite side and then go home.  If that
is what went on, I am not convinced that they were accomplished archers,
that they had really consistent technique or that we convince people in
the SCA who do things for fun after all to go to an event and shoot
precisely two arrows.

						Your Humble Servant
						Solveig Throndardottir
						Totally Ignorant

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: The Society's Paradox (long)
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:35:44 GMT

In article <221183XXXXX@ACS.VIRGINIA.EDU> U254@sysm.acs.virginia.EDU writes:
>
>Unto the good folk of the Rialto from Landon of Wulfkeep, greetings!
>
>... fantasy as the
>bait, with history as the hook.    :-)

Perhaps this is the catch-phrase we were all so iligently looking for
a few months ago.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: bwilson@eng.auburn.edu (Brian Scott Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: You Know You're In The SCA......
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:30:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Nov9.163052.24625
Reply-To: bwilson@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering

In article 20434@nas.nasa.gov, cassie@worf.nas.nasa.gov (Cassandra L. Baldassano) writes:
>Has anyone noticed the stong influx of new fighters who are lefties
>lately. I heard rumor that 3 out of the 4 semi-finalists for Cynagua
>Coronet were lefties?
>Euriol



In the Meridies Crown list, of the last five in the semi's, three
were left handed.

But, I don't believe that Meridies has had a left handed King yet.

Prince Brian

(not Left handed)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: MKNETTEL@kentvm.kent.EDU ("Mary Knettel ", Genevieve)
Subject: When Life Gives You Lemons
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:48:49 GMT

Hoobah! to Lady Dunstana Talana the Violet and the Shire of
Northkeep, who "do not sit and rail at the heavens about the
injustices of life" and instead make lemonade with the lemons
they have been dealt.

Often the mental attitude of the group contributes more to
its perceived "podunk-ness" or distance from the rest of the
Kingdom.

Congratulations on keeping people active, traveling, recognized,
and educated in combat, arts, etc...

-Genevieve du Vent Argent, Marche of Gwyntarian, MidRealm
 Mary Knettel, KSU, Kent, OH  mknettel @ kentvm.kent.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: brandon@gauss.math.brown.edu (Joshua Brandon)
Subject: Re: Filk vs. Recreation (was Re: out-of-period dancing)
Organization: Brown University Mathematics Department
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:55:18 GMT

Gwenllian Cwmystywth writeth:

 	First, Hole in the Wall is post-
 period.  It's English Country, and I can't think of a step of it that 
 shows up in the earliest edition (some possibilty for error here....) 
 So, if someone is dancing something that resembles HitW, you may 
 trigger your post-period alarm.

In particular, lines of couples that count off 1 and 2 or A and B (known in
the trade as "duple minor" dances), are (I think) either very late- or more
likely post- period.  The only two I happen to know are Female Sailor
(where does this come from, anyway --- late Playford?) and Hole in the
Wall, but there are others.

Also, the only dances I know of that start in "improper" position (some or
all ladies on the left) are post-period (in fact I think they may be 19th
or 20th century --- somebody check me on that?).

			---Simon

Disclaimer: I am sometimes caught with my facts down.  I do my best, but
please call me when I blow it!

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Geo-Political SCA
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:22:46 GMT

In article <BxM374.In4@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> goldschm@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Paul Goldschmidt) writes:
>Warning:  The following is a joke.  Those with short senses of humor
>should not read this.       

And my tongue in cheek comments...

>I was having an amusing thought the other day:
>
>As George Bush and his "New World Order" ride off into the sunset, I am
>struck by the way that the SCA is really a new world order.  First of all,
>all the kingdoms are set up to meet American standards of reality.  
>
>The seat of power is not in some swamp in Atlantia, but rather in the true
>center of Western Civilization:  California.  Meanwhile, like a Californian
>wet dream, the state has been divided into two:  one for the TRUE 
>Californians and one for those heathens "over there".  

Make that "down" there.  We still haven't got the border quite right,
though.  It *should* be at the Tehachapies....

It also shows the 'kinship' between So. Calif. and Hawaii.  (We put
all the warm-water Pacific folks in one 'nation'.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: del@babel.DIALix.oz.au (D Elson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: chocolate 
Distribution: world
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 92 13:49:46 GMT
Organization: 


In article <720572418.AA00000@blkcat.UUCP> Henry.Best@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org writes:

  > 
  > 
  >   I am interested in making chocolate, Aztec style.
  >  
  >   I have heard that they made it much like coffee but with roasted cocoa
  >   beans.
  > I have also heard that they flavored it with chili peppers.
  >  
  >   Does anyone have documentation for this?
 
Yes, believe it or not, however I don't have the book with me.  It
is called "Food in History", by Reay Tannahil, and it details a
recipe for chocolate traceable to Spain in 1623, that uses chilli
as a flavouring.  The recipe was apparently taken from the New
World, unchanged.

If nobody else can help you, e-mail me and I'll look it up.  It may
take a few days, because someone else has my copy of the book at
the moment.

Del
-----------------------------------+-------------------------------------
D Elson                            |  del@DIALix.oz.au del@adied.oz.au
-----------------------------------+-------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca