HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mark@fenris.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Violent antisemitism?
Date: 6 Sep 92 14:58:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: sarah.1992Sep6.145829.27594
Organization: State University of New York at Albany

In article <matthew.715770113@munna> matthew@.cs.mu.oz (Maciek Blasikiewicz) writes:
>The jewish population in Poland rose from ~6% to ~10% of the population
>(~35 million) between the two world wars, mainly due to immigration
>from other countries 

OK, then I withdraw my earlier comment. I thought you were talking
about natural increase of the native Jewish population.



>They were given polish citizenships. 

I'd say that this point, if true, is an excellent indicator that the
Polish government of the time was not seriously antisemitic.

Were there no possible ulterior motives to accepting these immigrants?
Did they bring skills with them which were considered crucial to
building up an industrial base after all those  years of occupation?


>Why would they
>migrate to such an anti-semitic country instead of a tolerant one, and
>why would such an anti-semitic country take them in when other tolerant
>countries would not? 

Antisemitism was extremely widespread at the time.

Some countries were more tolerant than others at certain times, but
trouble could come almost anywhere. What do you suggest as a tolerant
country?

Even in the United States, there have been serious incidents of
antisemitism. Individual Jews, such as Leo Frank or David Berg have
been lynched and murdered for their Jewishness. Organized groups have
preached antisemitism here.

For instance, among the political right, it was popular even as late
as the mid-1960's to talk about the International Jewish Communist
Conspiracy. And these people had some political allies, such as J.
Edgar Hoover, in the government itself. 

And the extreme right is now trying to claim that the holocaust never
happened.

Hatred is a very complex thing, and is something that is often very
difficult to escape.

Governments sometimes collaborate with haters even if they do not
espouse their causes directly.

As far as Poland is concerned, I believe that there is plenty of
documentation for serious antisemitic incidents during various
periods. I have no intention of getting involved in a debate over
which cultures have displayed the greatest degree of antisemitism at
which times.

Let's just say that it's hard to be able to claim that antisemitism
hasn't been a problem in Poland during major parts of this century.
And whether the government was actively involved, passively involved,
or merely did nothing to stop it is irrelevant. The issue is the fact
that Jewish citizens had to deal with this hatred.

And no, this doesn't make Poland necessarily worse than other parts of
the world, as the problem has been very widespread.

And, of course, it says nothing at all about a randomly selected Pole.


--Mark
From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Theme bar/batmitzvahs
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:24:58 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

In article <frank2.3@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za>, frank2@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za (FRANK D N) writes:
> An alarming trend has developed in the Jewish community in
> South Africa. Not only are inordinate amounts of money being spent on
> batmitzvah and barmitzvah receptions, but they now frequently have themes.
> Decorations, invitations, food and speeches revolve around themes such as
> Disney, space, chess, etc. There appears to be little awareness of the
> mitzvah itself.
>
> Is this something we have imported from elsewhere, or can we claim the
> questionable honour of having developed this all by ourselves?
>
> --
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> David Frank                       {} "I imagined that Ted Turner had been
> <frank2@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za>   {}  offered the post of World President -
> University of the Witwatersrand   {}  but had rejected it, because he didn't
> Johannesburg                      {}  want to give up power" Arthur C. Clarke
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ps:	If you send me a picture postcard to the following address, I'll
> 	send one right back to you.
>
> 			David Frank
> 			91 Mowbray Road
> 			Johannesburg
> 			2193
> 			South Africa
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
This is nothing new. I remember 30 years ago  when certain Bar Mitzvah
celebrations were  considered more "bar" (a.k.a. "drink") than Mitzvah  :-)

Josh
backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL








Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: baker@ROBOCOP.NYU.EDU (Jonathan Baker)
Subject: Re: Orthodox monopoly
Organization: New York University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 20:16:17 GMT


mannj@cims.nyu.edu writes:

>baker@ROBOCOP.NYU.EDU (Jonathan Baker) writes:

>>1. About Conservative rabbis & niddah.  I don't know what rationale they 
>>have.  There is no obstacle to a Conservative rabbi observing niddah, as
>>as Robert Gordis (o"h) says -- 

>but, Jonathan adds,

>>          in all but the right-wing Orthodox communities, ...

I did not add that, it was what Gordis said.  Perhaps I should have used a
colon instead of an em-dash.

Anyway, since niddah shouldn't interfere with relations other than those
between husband and wife, it shouldn't interfere with being a rabbi.

And later, 

>>Niddah is not talked about much even in Orthodox circles
>>...  I have not seen any studies, either among Orthodox
>>or Conservative, of how many people still observe it.

>I don't see how all of this is relevant to the discussion.

It's relevant in that your question can't be answered without relevant
sociological studies.  Most people won't just answer questions about
their private sex lives from a stranger.

     ---+  ||  --+  --+
        |        '    '             Jonathan J. Baker
     ---+-                          baker@robocop.nyu.edu
From: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: On Orthodox Monopoly
Date: 15 Sep 92 05:39:51 GMT
Organization: Johns Hopkins University



In article <9209142208.AA06579@robocop.NYU.EDU> baker@ROBOCOP.NYU.EDU
(Jonathan Baker) writes:

> So how is that different from today, where the Orthodox don't understand
> how Conservative can have women rabbis, except by claiming that 
> the Conservatives reject tradition and Halacha (which is not true, according
> to themselves)?

The difference is that the gender of a Reform or Conservative
rabbi doesn't make a difference to the Orthodox, but the
gender of an Orthodox rabbi would be relevant to certain matters,
hence the confusion in using 'rabbi' to describe qualified
men and women.

Rob

--
Robert A. Levene     Internet: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu
  "/  //  / /"         Bitnet:   RXL1@APLVM
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:15704 soc.culture.polish:2525
From: saroff@uf.msc.edu (Stephen Saroff)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Date: 10 Sep 92 17:30:15 GMT
Reply-To: saroff@msc.edu
Organization: AHPCRC, Minnesota Supercomputer Center

In article <1992Sep9.233055.3883@gmuvax2.gmu.edu>, azaleski@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Andrzej Zaleski) writes:
|> richf@comet.base.bellcore.com (Rich Farenci) writes:
|> 
|> Could you please say something about your motivation to put this kind of
|> stuff on the network ?
|> The only hope is that you will also one day try to "begin to overcome"
|> your "deeply held prejudices" towards the Polish nation. Hopefully they
|> were not a part of your education :-)
|> 
|> Andrzej Zaleski
|> 


It is always very interesting to hear from outsiders, isn't it.
What is there agenda?

This is something I do not understand.  Why should Poles care about our
prejudices?  Have we ever acted on them against Poles?  Are we in a position
to?  Have we given any indication that we wish revenge on our previous
oppressors?

A few weeks ago, we raised the issue of the Bosnia.  There slavs were killing
slavs.  People who had never done us good.  Whether we like people or hate
them is not the question.  What the action is.

What I find fascinating it the attempts by our former oppressors to make
us love them.  Why should they care.  Is it that they believe that
"the Jews control everything" and so they want us to love them?  I don't 
ask a Pole to like Germans or Russians--which is not the same thing as
permitting them to exterminate them.  Why should I like the Poles, 
the Russians, or indeed any European.

It is always very interesting to hear from outsiders, isn't it.
What is there agenda?

I somehow think that saving our souls from our prejudice is not it.

-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Stephen Saroff <saroff@msc.edu>                 o o  The Bear who Swims      
Minnesota Supercomputer Center                  (_)_____o      
1200 Washington Ave. S                       ~~~~(______)~~~~~~~~~~
Minneapolis, MN 5514 <612/626-1854>              oo    oo 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: Larry Israel <VSLARRY@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL>
Subject:      RE: YOM KIPPUR AND TU B'AV
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <Larry Israel <VSLARRY@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL>>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 06:59:57 GMT

I always thought that Jews celebrated the end of Yom Kippur with the blessing
of the moon, and then, after a meal, with building a Succah.

Guess that I'm just old-fashioned.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu (David Kaufmann)
Subject: Moshiach Educational Line 1-800-4-MOSHIACH
Organization: E.E. Dept., Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 04:38:41 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-15273]: bourbon

There is a new toll-free line with a five minute message about
concepts, laws, etc. concerning Moshiach. The message changes weekly,
and you can leave a comment or request further information.

Obviously, in such a short time no subject can be exhausted, but it
does provide a good introduction.

I recommend it, whatever your current thoughts on the subject.

Again, the number is 1-800-4-MOSHIACH

David Kaufmann
INTERNET:	david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Shwarma vs Gyros (Was: Mac David)
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:29:33 GMT

shdan@tudorct.com (Dan Shimoff) writes:
>sutin@helios.ucsc.edu (Brian Sutin) writes:
> >In article <92246.222444EXG106@psuvm.psu.edu> <EXG106@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
> >Is there any difference between shwarma and gyros (the Greek version)?
> 
> In NY, Gyros are served with a sour cream based sauce on top (as seen
> in the pictures on many eateries in the downtown area).  Those who
> have eaten it tell of it tasting much better than a shwarma.
> 
> Note:  Kosher shwarma or gyros are not available in the donwtown area, 
> so this taste test is only WRT strictly non-kosher food.  

It would seem to me that even if you got a kosher shwarma, your tate
test would require making it unkosher, with the sour cream.

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: engelson-sean@CS.YALE.EDU (Sean Philip Engelson)
Subject: Re: jewish last name Spetter: dutch or yiddish?/inscription on tombstone
Organization: Yale AI Mobile Robotics Project
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:34:12 GMT



In article <1992Sep14.144022.22714@cca.vu.nl>, you write:
|> 
|> Another question: On the tombstone the letters tav-nun-tsadeh-bet-heh
|> appear. Since they are rather far apart, they strike me as an
|> abbreviation of some 'standard' formula. Is that indeed the case?
|> If so (and if not), what would these letters mean?

Yes, this is a standard abbreviation, for "T'hey nishmato (nishmatah) tsrurah
bitsror hachayim", meaning "may his (her) soul be bound in the bond of life".

	-Shlomo-
-- 
Sean Philip (Shlomo) Engelson		
Yale Department of Computer Science	
Box 2158 Yale Station			
New Haven, CT 06520
From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Ecumenical joke
Date: 7 Sep 92 07:41:53 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem


Well, all this talk of Jewish popes reminds me of the following ecumenical
joke:

In the spirit of the ecumenical movement, the heads of the leading world
religions meet and decide that to foster peace and harmony each religion should
give up one or two major tenets of their faith.

The Hindus decide to give up 2000 of their gods  and all the leaders start
applauding. The Shintos give up ancestor worship, the Buddhists give up Gautama
Buddha. The Moslems give up Mecca and Medina. The pope gives up the Holy
Trinity, and the Archbishop of Canterbury as head of the Protestant church
gives up the divinity of Jesus. Then comes the Chief Rabbi of Israel
OYSGEMATERT UND OYSGEMUTCHET (aka "hagard and weary"). "After much discussion,
deliberation and TSURES, you vouldn't believe, ve decided to give up the second
YEKUM PURKAN in MUSAF".      ^                 ^

Josh
backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL







Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: sb@linus.mitre.org (Shimshon Berkovits)
Subject: Re: Eliezer Berkovits
Organization: Research Computer Facility, MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA
Distribution: soc.culture.jewish
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:00:23 GMT

Woops, I goofed!  It is Prof. Marvin Fox who will deliver a memorial lecture
on the 20th at the Young Israel of Brookline.  My appologies.

Shim Berkovits
Home:   (617) 232-9612
MITRE:  (617) 271-3271
e-mail: shim@mitre.org
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Otzar Haposkim
Date: 7 Sep 92 10:43:17 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <1992Sep6.051240.133@mel.dit.csiro.au>
haber@shark.mel.dit.CSIRO.AU (Yaacov Haber) writes:

>
>A few weeks ago there was a post regarding a Responsa database in Jerusalem
>that would be available via Internet acsess. This was put together by
>Otzar Haposkim. Since then I haven't heard anything. Does any one have
>any information about this. BTW this has NOTHING to do with the responsa
>project at Bar Ilan available on CD Rom.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The price of that is approximately $ 1100  .

Forauthorize details write to
    Rabbi Yakov winberger
       Responsa project
        Bar Ilan University
                 Ramat gan  Israel

( They have a dealler at the US , but I don't know his addresss)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Synagogue Financing
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:11:50 GMT

The secret to cheap traditional shuls' membership:

Auctioning atah haretah on Simchat Torah.

Aryk Nusbacher

PS:  Do non-trad. synagogues have appeals where they call out names and
amounts?  And do they have shnudders?
From: murray@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (murray kahl)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Moshiach
Date: 15 Sep 92 18:22:32 GMT
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida

Yosef Katzman
 
SS> > YK> Compliment accepted (with hesitation...:-)).
SS>  
SS> > YK> ---
SS> > Dont hesitate say it as it is, MOSHIACH IS COMING!!!!!!!!!!!!
SS>  
 
SS> Yosef, unless you wish this message sent all over the world,
SS> please post it elsewhere. I have no way of knowing.
SS> Murray 
 
 
Yes I do want this message to go all over the world:
 
MOSHIACH IS COMING!!!!!!!!! YES YES YES NOW!
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles)
Subject: Re: Hi, again!  Rejecting tradition? (was On the SUPERIOR Role of Women)
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1992 17:51:19 GMT

In article <dfs.715980965@wesley> dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:
>In <1992Sep08.173448.614955@locus.com> hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles) writes:
>
>>Either you reject tradition or you don't. If you accept 99% -
>>then you have rejected the other 1%, and you have rejected tradition.
>>It's as simple as that. Anything else is simple rationalization.
>
>Very, very few people indeed accept tradition by that standard.
>

I don't understand your point. Why is that relevent? Very few people
are honest if you define honesty as not cheating on taxes or anything
else. Would you prefer I change the definition of "honest" to make
people feel better?

Besides the fact, that I disagree with your assertion. I happen
to accept tradition by that standard. Unfortunately, I may not
live up to it 100% as I should, but that's my shortcoming.


>Are you saying that someone who goes to shul, keeps kosher, obeys as
>many mitzvot as he/she can, but maybe decides not to wear a kippah all
>the time (a part of "tradition") is no different from someone who
>completely rejects tradition?
>

Two points: 
One - is the person not wearing a Kippah because they reject
tradition, or because it is too difficult (but they accept the
fact that they should)? I have no problems with the latter 
but significant problems with the former. The latter at least,
is honest and willing to acknowledge his own shortcomings. So he
is not perfect, but neither is anyone else.

Two:
A person can be sick with the flu, or with a fatal illness (G-d forbid).
Both parties are sick, yet noone claims they are no different.


>When someone paints something in black and white like this, it's very
>difficult to have a meaningful discussion.
>
>David F. Skoll 

You don't have to be a mathematician to realize accepting 99% of
tradition implies rejection of 1% of tradition. Erego, he has
rejected tradition. Is this point so obscure that it needs to be
discussed?


Sincerely,
Hayim Hendeles
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Hebrew OCR
From: ToraByte <CFRQC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Monday, 7 Sep 1992 23:43:05 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

Does anybody know of, seen, have become aware of in any shape or form of
Hebrew OCR (Optical Character Recognition) scanner software for the IBM
(and Macintosh would be helpful too :-)). Thanx. Kol Tuv. L'hit.
                                         Zev Itzkowitz
P.S. Please respond either to me or on the net, tho to me personally would
    be easier.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:59:27 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
Keywords: polish revisionism


In msg <1992Sep4.190505.1514@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>
marek@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Marek Jan Romanowski) writes:

>In article <1992Sep3.213644.10662@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
>saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:

>>I don't have his name handy.  You can look it up as easily as I can.  Will
>>you?  I have my doubts as it would mean reading the history of the
>        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^          
>>uprising and seeing just how antisemitic the Polish underground was.

>You do not need to read the history at all.  You know better, don't you?
>Your weird and sad statement is representative of a wide spread attitude.

I see.  The fact that I read and respond to your revisionism from work,
instead of from a library means I deserve this invective.  Or is it just
because I'm a Jew with the audacity to prefer Poles _actively_ study their
own antisemitic socio-cultural history?

>Do not play with numbers.  It is difficult.  Try to accept that:

>'From a moral point of view it must be stated clearly that not enough
>was done either in Poland or anywhere else in occupied Europe. "Enough"
                              ^^^^^^^^
>was done only by those who died whilst giving aid.'
>[Wladyslaw Bartoszewski]

I don't accept this.  I am willing to say enough was done to save Jews in
Denmark and Bulgaria though not in other places (like Poland, France,
etc.)

I dismiss the remaining quotes with 2 reactions:

During the Holocaust there were Jews willing to make a pact with the Devil
to save Jews (consider, for example, the infamous and controversial truck
deal).

Second.  I _never_ said ALL Poles are/were antisemitic.  I refer to those
that are/were antisemitic and to those who would like to hide this evil
part of Polish history and sociology.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.mideast
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: Synagogue Financing
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:19:36 GMT

In article <4193@rebecca-lillian.bbn.com> wwalker@bbn.com (Ward Walker) writes:
>
>It appears to me that dues at a traditional synagogue are significantly lower
>than those at a non-orthodox synagogue.  What are the reasons for the great
>difference?  

Several possibilities:

1. Lower salary costs: Orthodox synagogues are lesss likely to have
   cantors and other functionaries.  Orthodox rabbis generally (so far
   as I have heard) get lower salaries than do C or R rabbis.

2. Smaller buildings, etc.  (The Orthodox "watershed" is limited by
   how far people can walk on Shabbat, etc.)  And buildings are generally
   (from what I've seen) less grandiose.

3. Sunday / afternoon schools -- Most Orthodox synagogues don't have them.

4. Orthodox synagogues are more likely to "nickel & dime you" to death --
   every aliyah on Shabbat is another $18.  And kiddush, etc.  And most
   Orthodox synagogues charge extra for high holiday seats.

5. Fewer "frills" -- the Orthodox synagogue is less likely to have a big
   gym, displays of beautiful Judaica and artwork.




-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
From: js@cs.tulane.edu (Jan Silbermann)
Subject: Re: Bingo
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Tulane Univ., New Orleans, LA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 17:01:44 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-23055]: caesar

>>There was a Lubavitch-run Bingo in southern California for many years,
>>before Crown Heights shut them down.  There's a day school in Lakewood
>>that has Bingo a few nights a week.

>>Just how widespread is Jewish Bingo?

>>-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)

 Our orthodox shul has had Bingo for many years. My husband goes to
 help out every week. He finds the whole thing morally reprehensible.
 It is difficult for him to watch people close to the poverty-line
 squander away their hard-earned money.  Unfortunately, the shul
 has no other choice but to use Bingo as a fund-raiser.  We cannot
 generate enough revenue with dues alone.

  It seems that the use of Bingo is quite widespread in shuls and
 dayschools.  Does anyone else find this problematic at best, or
 very wrong at worst?  What can shuls do to replace such a lucrative
 fund-raiser?
From: taschr01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Dan Zmood..sans gibberishzmood
Date: 11 Sep 92 19:02:48 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

help!! I'm looking for Dan Zmood who posted to scj about 2 weeks ago.
I've lost his e-mail address and would appreciate getting it by e-mail.
Thanks.
Ted Schramm
	
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish