HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Lights and Luminescence (was: THE TRUE CAUSE...)
Keywords: earthquakes lights, luminescence
Date: 16 Oct 92 22:52:44 GMT

Ah, this is an ok thread.  Somewhat controversial and open-ended (the
earthquake lights, that is).  So I'll go with it.

In article <183919@pyramid.pyramid.com>, lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
> In article <51342@seismo.CSS.GOV> stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead) writes:
> >
> >Piezo-optical effect!  That's new to me.  Is there such a thing?  I can
> >almost imagine such a thing.  Can photons excite phonons in certain
> >materials.  I'm actually curious - any physicists do stuff like that out there?
>  
>     Well, if you put pressure on a wintergreen Lifesaver, it
>     generates flashes of light.

The lifesaver effect is "triboluminescence".  It is an irreversible, destructive
process generally occurring in crystalline substance that have good cleavage.
It happens when the material is crushed, cracked or scratched.

This has most definitely been proposed as a source of earthquake lights,
but the main weakness is that both rocks and the soil covering them are
pretty opaque, so the light shouldn't shine through, even if present.
Some folks have pointed out to me mechanisms whereby photons can excite
phonons, but they aren't acoustic vibrations or whole-body deformations
which was what I was looking for with the term "Piezo-optical".

Other theories to explain earthquakes lights are:
1) static discharge (like lightning)
2) Piezo-electric discharge
3) ignition of marsh gas
4) radioactive glow from radon gas

These are all only partial explanations if you try to work them all the way
out.  Earthquake lights are not considered a proven phenomenon, but they
are reported for a lot of quakes, and some reports precede the days of
electrical transmission (the cause of the vast majority of earthquake lights
reported today).  The historical reports could still be essentially
man-made - fires started during the quake, etc.  Still, every general
seismology text includes some comment of this phenomenon, including
Richter.  (Richter does exaggerate a bit in his discussion - he had a hobby
of collecting reports of strange phenomena, and not just from quakes.)



--
Richard Stead
Center for Seismic Studies
Arlington, VA
stead@seismo.css.gov
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: THE TRUE CAUSE & ORIGIN OF EARTHQUAKES (AND THEIR PREDICTION)
Keywords: ELF Monitoring, Earthquake Forecasting, Magnetic Fluctuations
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:30:21 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA

In article <51342@seismo.CSS.GOV> stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead) writes:
>
>Piezo-optical effect!  That's new to me.  Is there such a thing?  I can
>almost imagine such a thing.  Can photons excite phonons in certain
>materials.  I'm actually curious - any physicists do stuff like that out there?
 
    Well, if you put pressure on a wintergreen Lifesaver, it
    generates flashes of light.

    I guess if you are a charlatan who "knows the one truth", it
    isn't that big of a stretch to earthquakes being caused by all
    those radio waves from TV broadcasts.  >:-)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: gak@wrs.com (Richard Stueven)
Subject: Re: THE TRUE CAUSE & ORIGIN OF EARTHQUAKES
Reply-To: gak@wrs.com
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 16:35:56 GMT

In article 17169@alex.com, dec@alex.com (Doug Clinton) writes:
>In article <1992Oct15.124156.24607@afit.af.mil>, morlan@afit.af.mil (Bruce W. Morlan) writes:
>|> The deleted article falls under mysticism until it is used predictively.
>|> So, when's then next major quake?
>
>Presumably, then, all current research on plate tectonics, etc also
>falls under mysticism since it, too, has failed to ever predict a
>major quake?

The current researchers don't claim the ability to predict earthquakes.

---
Richard Stueven        gak@wrs.com         attmail!gakhaus!gak        107/H/3&4
	Did William Faulkner have little creatures on his old typewriter?
	If so, they were the product of whiskey, which addles the brain less
	than cartoon creatures and menus and buttons that send messages to
	the screen demanding: "Abort? Quit? Try Again? Drop Dead? Exit? Go To
	Hell You Schnook?" - Mike Royko

Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes,sci.geo.geology,sci.astro,sci.archaeology,sci.geo.meteorology,sci.research
From: jeff@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Jeff Freymueller)
Subject: Re: THE TRUE CAUSE & ORIGIN OF EARTHQUAKES (AND THEIR PREDICTION)
Keywords: ELF Monitoring, Earthquake Forecasting, Magnetic Fluctuations
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 18:09:39 GMT

OK, so earthquakes are caused by mystic forces controlled by the Sun and
Moon. I'm not at all impressed by the "electromagnetic waves" theory. This
explanation conveniently ignores the observation that not all earthquakes
cause vertical motions in the epicentral regions (to the exclusion of
horizontal). Sorry. Next!

Jeff
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: La Jolla "AuroraQuake"?
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 16:38:44 GMT

Wow!  These military guys must be impressive to stage an explosion
to coincide with their plane test.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			Imhof, Cartographic Relief Presentation
			Books on or by Benjamin Whorf
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
>From: hrlaser@crash.cts.com (Harv Laser)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: dependence on time of year
Date: 30 Jan 91 16:13:17 GMT
Organization: Crash TimeSharing, El Cajon, CA

Andy.. the California Division of Mines and Geology has a BBS up and
running in the Sacramento area. It's at 916-327-1208, 300/1200/2400.
It's popular "Wildcat" software running on some kind of MS-DOS machine.
You might want to liase with the sysop there.

Be advised that we echo the weekly reports from CalTech and USGS on
our bbs at 916-327-1208.  And, we do the uudecoding for you.  If
you miss the reports and want copies of past reports, all that we
have received are available as ZIP files -- downloads are possible
on your first call.  Log on at 8-N-1, please.

-- 
           Ted Smith  --  tcs.sactoh0.SAC.CA.US
         California Division of Mines and Geology
        Call our MS-DOS based bbs (CDMG ONLINE) at
                   916-327-1208 8-N-1



Harv Laser                                      {anywhere}!crash!hrlaser
"Park and lock it.  Not responsible."           People/Link: CBM*HARV

Xref: sparky ca.earthquakes:1207 sci.geo.geology:2140 sci.astro:10822 sci.archaeology:2633 sci.geo.meteorology:3245 sci.research:1185
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: La Jolla "AuroraQuake"?
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 01:54:37 GMT

In article <STSSRAM.92Oct12134204@st.unocal.COM> Bob.Myers@st.unocal.com writes:
>Eugene> Wow!  These military guys must be impressive to stage an explosion
>Eugene> to coincide with their plane test.
>
>I thought that's what military planes were for.... 

Wow!
USAF bombs So. Calif. with supersecret military plane to cover up tests.
Film at 11.
And I was thinking it was a synchronization problem.
So this was what Bagdad was like, eh?
Back to seismology.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Xref: sparky ca.earthquakes:1204 sci.geo.geology:2137 sci.astro:10815 sci.archaeology:2630 sci.geo.meteorology:3240 sci.research:1182
From: craig@ariel.earth.nwu.edu (Craig R. Bina)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes,sci.geo.geology,sci.astro,sci.archaeology,sci.geo.meteorology,sci.research
Subject: Re: THE TRUE CAUSE & ORIGIN OF EARTHQUAKES (AND THEIR PREDICTION)
Keywords: ELF Monitoring, Earthquake Forecasting, Magnetic Fluctuations
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:39:42 GMT
Organization: Geological Sciences Department, Northwestern University

In article <1992Oct15.142108.18665@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu> lerner@ldgo.columbia.edu (art lerner-lam) writes:
>Best argument I've seen for moderating this newsgroup.

Indeed.  I fear I may have nightmares tonight about the late Iben Browning's
infamous "prediction" of a major New Madrid quake a year or so ago.  Ever since
that little exercise in quasi-science, my insurance company has included notes
to the effect that Illinois residents may opt for extra earthquake insurance.
       Craig.....
-- 
_______
Craig R. Bina, Asst. Prof.
Dept. of Geological Sci., Northwestern Univ.
Evanston, Illinois, craig@earth.nwu.edu
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes,sci.geo.geology,sci.astro,sci.archaeology,sci.geo.meteorology,sci.research
From: morlan@afit.af.mil (Bruce W. Morlan)
Subject: Re: THE TRUE CAUSE & ORIGIN OF EARTHQUAKES (AND THEIR PREDICTION)
Keywords: ELF Monitoring, Earthquake Forecasting, Magnetic Fluctuations
Organization: Air Force Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 12:41:56 GMT

Yeah, right.

The differences between science and mysticism are fundamental.

Mysticism explains by looking for correlative links and building a story
(whether in words or in mathematical symbols) that ties the parts
together, often inferring or implying causality.  
Mysticism "proves" the result by making the story plausible.

Science explains by looking for causal links and building a story
(preferably in mathematical symbols, but sometimes not, e.g., evolution)
that ties the parts together.
Science "proves" the resulting model by predicting something based on
the model and then finding evidence of same (prototypical example - use
of an eclispse to permit validation of the Einstein model of space-time
curvature by gravity).

Any statistician that has not been compromised by ideology should tell
you that if you are willing to make your model complex enough, it can
predict very well without being science (e.g., the crystal-spheres model
of the solar system can be made to predict very well the positions of the
planets, it just gets ugly!).  This is true of both scientific and mystical
models.

The deleted article falls under mysticism until it is used predictively.
So, when's then next major quake?
-- 
Bruce W. Morlan, Major, USAF             Air Force Institute of Technology
Dept. Department Head                    AFIT/ENC
Department of Mathematics                WPAFB  OH  45433
From: wae@aero.org (William A. Emanuelsen)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Another Auroraquake
Followup-To: ca.earthquakes
Date: 15 Oct 1992 17:01:57 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Distribution: ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: aerospace.aero.org

In article <8358@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> weiss@curtiss.seas.ucla.edu (Michael Weiss) writes:
>Yup, there was another Auroraquake at 6:39 this morning.  How long will it be
>before someone admits responsibility for these events?

And here I thought it was just a manifestation of my latent
telekinetic powers!

What was cool about today's event was that I was outside approaching
my garage door when it occurred.  I FELT absolutely nothing.  No
boom, no pressure wave, nothing.  But my garage door rattled for a
few seconds as if someone was inside trying to get out.

I cautiously opened the door...
-- 
William A. Emanuelsen    "You'll never get famous by repeating what
wae@aerospace.aero.org      other people say." -- Bartlett's Mom.
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: gsroka@leland.Stanford.EDU (Gregory Sroka)
Subject: Re: Anniversary Reminder
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: ca
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 19:26:21 GMT

In article <Bw7GMs.A52@solbourne.com> kucharsk@solbourne.com (William Kucharski) writes:
>
>Or if that doesn't bother you, go for a drive from the Bay Bridge to 880 or on
>the Embarcadero Freeway...)
>
>BTW, on a related note, what is up with 880 and the Embarcadero freeway?
>Will they be replaced or are they still fighting about it?

They are both long gone, and will be replaced by ground level highways (at
least I think this is still the status).
I had the "thrill" of driving under the partially demolished Embarcadero
in March/April 1991. A few days later, the demolition crew had a couple of 
mishaps where large pieces fell unintentionally! It was completely gone by
June 1991.
From: stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: THE TRUE CAUSE & ORIGIN OF EARTHQUAKES
Date: 16 Oct 92 14:58:51 GMT

In article <1992Oct16.081626.21258@alex.com>, dec@alex.com (Doug Clinton) writes:
> In article <Bw68rw.Iv3@wrs.com>, gak@wrs.com (Richard Stueven) writes:
> |> In article 17169@alex.com, dec@alex.com (Doug Clinton) writes:
> |> >In article <1992Oct15.124156.24607@afit.af.mil>, morlan@afit.af.mil (Bruce W. Morlan) writes:
> |> >|> The deleted article falls under mysticism until it is used predictively.
> |> >|> So, when's then next major quake?
> |> >
> |> >Presumably, then, all current research on plate tectonics, etc also
> |> >falls under mysticism since it, too, has failed to ever predict a
> |> >major quake?
> |> 
> |> The current researchers don't claim the ability to predict earthquakes.
> 
> So does that make what they do science, mysticism or just a hobby?

Science, of course.  Who ever heard of a requirement that someone must
predict earthquakes to be a scientist?  Only a handful of scientists have
ever tried to predict quakes.  Does that mean the rest are mystics?  Include
all chemists, biologists, physicists, etc., as well.  Afterall, they claim
to be scientists and don't claim the ability to predict earthquakes.

Bruce and Richard have only pointed out that that article CLAIMS the ability
to predict quakes, yet did not give any such thing.  When a phycist claims
to know the mass and charge of an electron (or whatever - any claim of
knowledge in science), they produce the method and results as well.  The
author in this case makes a claim, but produces nothing to back it up.
This is mysticism - he requires from the reader blind faith that he is right.


--
Richard Stead
Center for Seismic Studies
Arlington, VA
stead@seismo.css.gov
Xref: sparky ca.earthquakes:1200 sci.geo.geology:2133 sci.astro:10799 sci.archaeology:2628 sci.geo.meteorology:3236 sci.research:1180
From: lerner@ldgo.columbia.edu (art lerner-lam)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes,sci.geo.geology,sci.astro,sci.archaeology,sci.geo.meteorology,sci.research
Subject: Re: THE TRUE CAUSE & ORIGIN OF EARTHQUAKES (AND THEIR PREDICTION)
Keywords: ELF Monitoring, Earthquake Forecasting, Magnetic Fluctuations
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:21:08 GMT
Organization: Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory

Best argument I've seen for moderating this newsgroup.
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn)
Subject: Re: Another Auroraquake
Reply-To: kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Distribution: ca
Date: 15 Oct 92 22:54:31 GMT

In article <421@vega.iii.com> rhockins@enrico.tmc.edu (Russell Hockins) writes:
>In article <8358@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> weiss@curtiss.seas.ucla.edu (Michael Weiss) writes:
>>Yup, there was another Auroraquake at 6:39 this morning.  How long will it be
>>before someone admits responsibility for these events?
> 
>Maybe this should be cross referenced into alt.consparicy.  There was an
>article in there about the [ supposed ] Russian orbital platform that
>caused a similar phenomenon on the east coast.  My intent is *not* to
>start rumors or spread dis-information, but merely to provide another
>possible avenue to check on.

Russell - be aware.  That article - if it can be so dignified by such a
title - was posted by one of the looniest net.whackers.  It would seem 
that every so often he runs out of medicine, and starts posting...


kbq

--
Kevin Quinn                         | kevinq@ingres.com
                                    | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com
My opinions are my own.  Should you think otherwise, think again.
From: rhockins@enrico.tmc.edu (Russell Hockins)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Another Auroraquake
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:46:41 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <8358@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> weiss@curtiss.seas.ucla.edu (Michael Weiss) writes:
>Yup, there was another Auroraquake at 6:39 this morning.  How long will it be
>before someone admits responsibility for these events?
 
Maybe this should be cross referenced into alt.consparicy.  There was an
article in there about the [ supposed ] Russian orbital platform that
caused a similar phenomenon on the east coast.  My intent is *not* to
start rumors or spread dis-information, but merely to provide another
possible avenue to check on.



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Russell Hockins               |  This civilization is recyclable           |
| Innovative Interfaces, Inc.   |              ( well most of it anyway )    |
| My own opinions  no one elses |  packet : ka6foy @ ki6yk.#nocal.ca.na.usa  |
Xref: sparky ca.earthquakes:1216 sci.geo.geology:2149 sci.astro:10841 sci.archaeology:2638 sci.geo.meteorology:3251 sci.research:1190
From: UC525655@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Mark Eaton)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes,sci.geo.geology,sci.astro,sci.archaeology,sci.geo.meteorology,sci.research
Subject: Re: THE TRUE CAUSE & ORIGIN OF EARTHQUAKES (AND THEIR PREDICTION)
Date: 16 Oct 92 04:10:24 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri

In article <1992Oct15.142108.18665@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu>
lerner@ldgo.columbia.edu (art lerner-lam) writes:
 
>
>Best argument I've seen for moderating this newsgroup.
 
Yes, I agree, could you folks take sci.archaeology off the replies list?
thanks
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark Eaton                    | Opinions? We're not allowed to have
UC525655@MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU | opinions at Mizzou... get back to me
                              | in 2 years when I graduate... ;)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes,sci.geo.geology,sci.astro,sci.archaeology,sci.geo.meteorology,sci.research
From: mparker@adobe.com (Mike Parker)
Subject: Re: THE TRUE CAUSE & ORIGIN OF EARTHQUAKES (AND THEIR PREDICTION)
Keywords: ELF Monitoring, Earthquake Forecasting, Magnetic Fluctuations
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 20:04:18 GMT

Yeah, I know Lockhart was only passing this on from some other author, presumably
he thought we all needed a good laugh.  Maybe he will pass on my comments.

In article <2ADCC458.22856@news.service.uci.edu> lockhart@uci.edu writes:

>the legitimacy of their claims.  While geologists and seismologists
>insist they understand "what causes an earthquake" and "the physics of
>the Earth" etc., they have still yet to demonstrate such understanding
>with concrete proof or RESULTS achieved only through systematic and
>successful prediction.  Only through prediction can one verify his
>knowledge about anything, especially as it relates to the physical
>world and the events thereof.  What would you think of a meteorologist

O.K. fine, predict away.  We seem to have a fairly large earthquake with
measurable damage somewhere on earth every 6 months or so.  We want to read
about the next one here BEFORE we read about it in the papers.  No fair waiting
until after tha fact to tell us that your system predicted it correctly.

mike


Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: whackers: Another Auroraquake
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 00:33:48 GMT
Distribution: ca

In article <1992Oct15.225431.28656@pony.Ingres.COM>
kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn) writes:
>Russell - be aware.  That article - if it can be so dignified by such a
>title - was posted by one of the looniest net.whackers.  It would seem 
				  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>that every so often he runs out of medicine, and starts posting...
>My opinions are my own.  Should you think otherwise, think again.

This is quite a claim.
Can you elaborate?  Should we collect a list of c.e. cranks or whackers?
Group Killfile material?

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			Imhof, Cartographic Relief Presentation
			Books on or by Benjamin Whorf
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: kucharsk@solbourne.com (William Kucharski)
Subject: Anniversary Reminder
Summary: 5:04PM This Saturday, October 17
Organization: Solbourne Computer, Inc., Longmont, CO
Distribution: ca
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 08:23:15 GMT


Well, I'm sure I didn't beat the Bay Area papers to this, but I just wanted
to remind you all that 5:04PM on Saturday might be a good time to observe a
moment of silence and double check the contents of your earthquake preparedness
kits. (Not to mention to check that your water heaters are strapped, that your
home is bolted to its foundation or that you've read the earthquake info
in the front of your White Pages at least once)...

(Sorry, I don't mean to sound like BAREP here, but if the lines at the 7-11 on
Winchester a couple of blocks north of Stevens Creek were around the block a
few times filled with people buying bread/milk/water after a lil' ol' 7.1...

Or if that doesn't bother you, go for a drive from the Bay Bridge to 880 or on
the Embarcadero Freeway...)

BTW, on a related note, what is up with 880 and the Embarcadero freeway?
Will they be replaced or are they still fighting about it?
-- 
| William Kucharski, Solbourne Computer, Inc.     | Opinions expressed above
| Internet: kucharsk@solbourne.com   Ham: N0OKQ   | are MINE alone, not those
| Snail Mail: 1900 Pike Road, Longmont, CO  80501 | of Solbourne Computer, Inc.
| President, "Just the Ten of Us" Fan Club        | "Dittos from Longmont, CO"
Xref: sparky ca.earthquakes:1199 sci.geo.geology:2132 sci.astro:10798 sci.archaeology:2627 sci.geo.meteorology:3235 sci.research:1179