HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kbanaian@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu (King Banaian)
Subject: Face to face versus totals
Summary: What's the difference?
Organization: Pitzer College
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:48:00 GMT

My thanks to netters who discussed my four trade proposals.  The fellow with 
Bip is weighing offers now, and I hope to get it done next week.  I am quite 
surprised by the reaction to Hollins and Sid Fernandez (though in one trade 
the Fernandez I meant was Tony;  I didn't specify that).  I now think I may 
try instead to move Boggs for Brown (a deal that seems likely to happen, 
since he's got only Ventura and a staff of Clemens, Eldred, Navarro and 
Swindell ahead of Brown).

One thing that came up was some discussion by one respondent on the 
necessities for a face-to-face fantasy league versus the roto totals.  
Please reply to the following question:

"If you had a team in a face-to-face league AND a roto team (let's say, one 
that also counted doubles, triples and walks for hitters), how would they 
differ?  How would you alter your drafting strategy between the two leagues?"

I realize adding three categories imbalances the value of hitters and 
pitchers, so assume that somehow we can correct that problem.  Don't ask me 
how.
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
Subject: Walker offered
Date: 22 Jan 93 21:21:15 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

So, I'm in a roto-type league, NL only, with categories
BA, SLG, R+RBI and SB - CS for hitters; standard
pitching categories except W replaced with W + (W - L).

I have a good roster, but mostly low,low priced parttimers.

The owner who wins 1/2 the time and has never finished 
below 3d has a bunch of low,low priced stars.

He has Larry Walker at $15 (L3).  He wants Geronimo Pena 
at $5 (R4), Brian Barnes at $1 (R3), Dunston at $15 (R4) 
and Morandini at $1 (R4).

(L3 = long term, expires end of 1993; R4 = regular,
option year is 1994, etc.)

I think Walker produced about a $45 season last year, 
but is likely to fall back to about $35 worth or so.
Still, pretty valuable to have around.  Barnes, 
Dunston & Morandini are all worth their contracts
but not much more.  Pena, on the other hand, could
be Barry Larkin Jr - STATS projects him to hit .258,
slug .385, get 125 R+RBI and steal 30 with 14 CS.
That's about $17 worth by my calculations.  So,
nod to Walker.  But Pena could be even better, and
is young, and I could make him $10 and get 2 years
from him...

I'm hesitating, mostly  because I'm trying to
get McGriff for a bunch of bodies (we have to
freeze at least 10 players, and a couple of
owners are going to be stuck freezing stiffs
at $10 salaries).  But is this a reasonable
deal anyway?

Gant is my only big stick; I've also got Karros
& Luis Gonzalez at great salaries and Daryl Boston
at $3.  I'd like McGriff... but Walker ain't chopped
liver...

Comments?

Dave

-- 
Dave DeMers			 	        demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
Subject: Re: Questions about the Flying Australian
Date: 27 Jan 1993 18:53:11 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <C1ItvI.2Jq@cs.dal.ca> niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gordon Niguma) writes:
>
>  While I agree on everything else salty has said, I can't see anyone catching
>150 games next year. He'd have to latch onto some DH AB's to do so, because
>I think Surhoff and McIntosh and others will get games behind the plate.

   Yup, Gord's right. I expect Nilsson will probably start around 150 games,
   but probably only about 120 will be as the catcher. Surhoff's defense behind
   the plate improved considerably last year and the Brewers would like to see
   him still catch a few games. I can't see McIntosh starting many games behind
   the plate, although if I remember correctly he caught when Eldred started
   at the end of last year. 

>  If Surhoff qualifies at C for your ROTO team, he may be a good pick, because
>he'll get more PT at 3B than most catchers would get and thus his raw totals
>should be higher. He's not much of a hitter for a 3Bman though....
>
   Surhoff should be an interesting player this year. The Brewers expect his
   offense to improve considerably without the extra weight of having to 
   catch and call a ballgame on his mind. Apparently he's very hard on himself
   when he's slumping and the easier position (mentally) will help his hitting.
   I'm not sold on that, but we'll see. He looked great his rookie year and
   simply hasn't done squat since. The organization likes Surhoff a lot though,
   so he will play often.

   --salty


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
From: eric@gauss.eedsp.gatech.edu (Eric Hyche)
Subject: Please help me understand Patton $'s
Originator: eric@gauss.eedsp.gatech.edu
Organization: Georgia Inst. of Tech - DSP - Atlanta, Ga
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:04:23 GMT


I picked up an old copy of Patton's 1991
Fantasy Baseball Price Guide last week
that I saw in a discount bookstore. I wanted
to figure out his system for pricing players.

However, after reading his so-called "Notes
for Masochists" section where he explains
his system, I am still befuddled. I can't 
seem to make the transition from his very
general explanations to his formulas at
the end of the section.

If anybody has read this book or understands
his system, please send me a brief tutorial.

Thanks!

Eric Hyche
eric@eedsp.gatech.edu

-- 
Eric Hyche
Georgia Tech, School of Electrical Engineering, Atlanta, GA  30332
INTERNET: eric@eedsp.gatech.edu
From: hajel@quip.eecs.umich.edu (John Hajel)
Subject: FAQ wanted
Summary: Software wanted>?
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 13:52:41 GMT


Is there a FAQ for this group?  I'm particularly interested
in fantasy league software.


Thanks
John Hajel
hajel@eecs.umich.edu

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
From: thom@well.sf.ca.us (Thom Rogers)
Subject: Darrin Jackson on the block?
Summary: ? on Drn Jackson trade rumors
Keywords: Jackson Padres trades
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 10:33:54 GMT


In USATBW J.McIlvaine threatens a trade of Drn Jackson.  His point is that
the arbitrations of Jackson, Sheffield and Benes will bust the budget and if
that happens, Jackson goes.  Normally I'd chalk it up to bargaining
posturing but I recall hearing a similar rumor earlier in the offseason.

With Darrell Sherman in the wings, coming off a good winter ball season and
certainly much cheaper this Jackson trade seems to make Padre sense.  Jcksn
would get the Padres a lot in a deal and help solve their budget problem as
well.

I need to know if anyone out there has hard news on this as I have Jackson
at $2.  I need to trade him right away (for a lot) if there's over a 70%
chance the Padres will deal him.  What do you think/know?

Thanks

Thom
From: camden@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Rany Jazayerli)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
Subject: Stratomatic PBM League needs managers
Date: 23 Jan 1993 10:55 EST
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

	The North American Stratomatic Association (NASA), a 10-team
Stratomatic play-by-mail league using mostly American League players, is looking
for one or two new expansion owners to join the league for its second successful
season.  Our expansion format is such that these expansion teams can be
competitive almost immediately.  Responsible owners with a commitment to
playing all their games promptly is a must; experienced Stratomatic players
are preferred.

	Anyone interested should email to <camden@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu> ASAP.  Our
expansion draft will take place in under a month and the season begins in mid-
March, so quick replies are appreciated.  Thank you.


	Rany Jazayerli			camden@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu
	---------------------------------------------------------
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
Subject: Re: Questions about the Flying Australian
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:44:11 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

>>   Dave Nilsson will be a full-time starter for the Brewhas at catcher this
>>   year. Unless he flops miserably, he should start in about 150 or so games.
>
>Does this mean that Surhoff will start at 3rd or will Seitzer?
>
   Surhoff will definitely be the starter at 3B. Seitzer hasn't been re-signed 
   yet and with the signing of Doran and in a day or two signing of Thon, it's
   doubtful that Seitzer will even be on the Brewers next year. The Brewer
   infield looks like Nilsson C, Jaha 1B, Spiers 2B, Listach SS, Surhoff 3B.
   Doran and Thon will probably fight for the utility man spot or maybe both
   will make the team.

   --salty
From: eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu (Dave Bonar)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
Subject: Re: About the new pro-teams
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:28:12 GMT
Reply-To: eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
Organization: News and Views from LSU
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-25795]: sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

In article <1k2de1INNql0@savoy.cc.williams.edu>, 93jll@williams.edu (Jennifer Lehoczky) writes...
>In article <1993Jan25.145358.2559@ucbeh.san.uc.edu> warejd@ucbeh.san.uc.edu writes:
>>What are people's opinions about the new Colorado and Florida teams?
>>Do they have any players that would be worth picking up if your rules permit
>>it?
> 
>That all depends on whether or not you are playing in a next year
>league (eg Roto) or a long-term league (eg Strat).
> 
>For next year, no (OK, Santiago, Harvey)

	I couldn't agree less!

	A number of players on both teams are going to have reasonable
value to a roto type league.  And, in most cases, you are going to have to
recognize this since leagues might be expanding from 10 to 12 teams.

	Pitching - Neither team is going to be a good source of quality 
pitching.  Neid isn't a bad pick if you realize that he won't get many wins.
Harvey, Holmes, and Seanez (if healthy) are the closers.  They should have
reasonable value but don't bet on more then 30 saves (Harvey might actually
make 30 saves if used correctly but I doubt he'll be used that much).

	Hitting - This is where the good stuff hides.  Lets look at Colorado
first;

Galaraga	worthless
Young		possibly good; he has steal potential but I don't think he
		can hit.  I expect a Gerald Young type season.
?		nope, I wouldn't touch any expansion SS
Hayes		he could be good in a league that looks at batting average
		(he's death in a league with OBA!).  I expect he'll hit a 
		little better then he did with Phi. or NY and slug around
		15HRs.  Not great but worth keeping in mind.
Clark		worth exactly as much as he was worth at SD
Cole		a nice pick.  His defense stinks but they don't have anyone
		to replace him.  He should get 40+ steals and his average
		isn't going to hurt.  No power.
Bichette	worth as much as he was in Mil.  maybe a little more due to
		getting a little power boost from the park.
Girardi		a catcher with good average.  Not much else but he is worth
		looking into at low $.

Florida
Destrade	unknown.  
Barberie	nice, has can do some of anything.  He is better then he looked
		last year and he is basically guarrenteed playing time.  
Weiss		shrug.  I don't think he is worth anything but he doesn't 
		really hurt if he is a low priced MI.
Magadan		unknown.  He might well come back to hitting .300 but I'd only
		take him in a league that used OBA not BA.
Fariss		unknown
Felix		poor,  little value unless you get him as a 5th outfielder
Conine		unknown
Santiago	exactly what you expect from him.  Probably overvalued in most
		leagues in my opinion

	Neither team is going to be a source of all stars but there are some
reasonable values in both starting lineups.

Dave
__________
Dave Bonar
eebonar@lsuvax.sncc.lsu.edu
__________
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
From: sullis@rs6412.ecs.rpi.edu (Sean C. Sullivan)
Subject: FAQ maintainer needs information
Summary:  I need information
Keywords: FAQ, Baseball America, USA Today, The Sporting News
Organization: Rotisserie Polytechnic Institute (Troy, NY, USA)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 23:45:09 GMT


I'm working on the FAQ for this newsgroup.
The FAQ is 90% done.

I need some information:

 What is the phone #/address for subscriptions to Baseball America?
 What is the phone #/address for subscriptions to The Sporting News?
 What is the phone #/address for subscriptions to USA Today?
 How do I contact Howe Sports Data (address/phone#)?
 When is Opening Day 1993?
 What is APBA?
 Where can I buy APBA?
 What does APBA stand for?
 What is Strat-O-Matic?
 Where can I buy Strat-O-Matic?
 What is Pursue The Pennant?
 Where can I buy Pursue The Pennant?

Please reply by e-mail!!!
Thanks!
-- 
# Sean C. Sullivan (sullis@rpi.edu) | R.P.I. | DISCLAIMER:  Not!   #
# (AFS home directory:  /afs/rpi.edu/home/95/sullis)               #
# "Holy mother of God, what is Lou Gorman smoking?" == Dave Kirsch #
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
From: colin@ug.cs.dal.ca (Colin Edward Mac Donald)
Subject: Re: Questions about the Flying Australian
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:14:42 GMT

In article <1k693eINN5dv@uwm.edu> paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger) writes:
>   Dave Nilsson will be a full-time starter for the Brewhas at catcher this
>   year. Unless he flops miserably, he should start in about 150 or so games.

Does this mean that Surhoff will start at 3rd or will Seitzer?

Later.
	Colin Mac Donald
	colin@ug.cs.dal.ca
Date: Thursday, 21 Jan 1993 18:09:01 EST
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cecil signs :-( :-( :-(
 <GRABINER.93Jan20140019@kovalevskaia.harvard.edu>
 <1993Jan21.025125.26861@athena.mit.edu> <2271@blue.cis.pitt.edu>

"regardless of what defensive position is played, beating the average
ops for that position by n points will give the same amount of wins
to the team."

                               -someone, paraphrased.
                                (how's that for a source?)

bzzzzt.  a first baseman with 50 points of ops more than the average
first baseman will bat somewhere in the middle of the lineup.  a shortstop
with 50 points of ops more than the average shortstop will bat, what,
eighth instead of ninth? whoop-de-doo.  the first baseman contributes
more, since he comes up to the plate more often, and has runners on base
more often when he comes up, and is on base more often when a decent
batter comes up.

bob vesterman.
From: wall@cc.swarthmore.edu (Matthew Wall)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Change the game?
Date: 27 Jan 93 22:00:25 GMT
Followup-To: rec.sport.baseball
Organization: Hi, I'm Matt, and I'm...a Boston Red Sox fan

In article <1993Jan26.203139.5237@wkuvx1.bitnet>, cabanrf@wkuvx1.bitnet
wrote:
> I dunno. I seem to recall a world series game played in Atlanta two
> years ago when the bat boy nearly got in.  :-)  Did I understand the
> intracicies of what was happening?  No.  Did I enjoy it?  YES.  Did I
> spend a lot of time the next winter thinking of thAt game and wondering
> why the heck certain things happened?  YOU BETCHA!

If that's what you remembered about that game, more proof that the DH is
not in the top 100 of problems. For that matter, Rick Aguilera having to
hit in '91 with the DH in force was as interesting as sending Francisco
Cabrera to the plate in '92; I never have gotten this "strategy" argument. 

Despite supporting the DH rule (and again, the difference between the
leagues makes it all the more interesting when the leagues are becoming
increasingly homogenous) I don't see its abolition or uniform adoption as
having a huge impact on a game with plenty of other troubles.

A new players' league, that's what baseball the game needs...that would be
fun..
---------------------------------------------------------
This space left intentionally blank until spring training.
From: st1ge@Rosie.UH.EDU (Edward Hui)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Jimmy Jones
Date: 27 Jan 1993 06:12:48 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
Reply-To: st1ge@Rosie.UH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: rosie.uh.edu

In article <1993Jan26.200417.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu>, pjtier01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>The Expos signed Jimmy Jones to a minor league contract.  He was a starter 
>for the Astros who hasn't had an ERA below 4.10 in six years.  Has this guy
>ever been considered a real commodity?  The Expos have rehabed players in
>the past and they could use some middle relief.  Any thoughts on this guy's
>past or future?
>                                                             P. Tierney
> 
    Jones is mediocore pitcher at best.  He has been the fifth starter
for the Padres, Yankees, and Astros.  His number looked good when he's
with the Astros the past 2 seasons because he was pitching in the Dome
most of the time.  Once he got on the road, his stats were terrible.
I don't think he will provide valuable service to the Expos.  He will
be better if he signs with one of the expansion teams.


Edward Hui
From: scotth@apertus.com (Scott Hauck)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Braves signing...
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:00:41 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Apertus Technologies
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Mark Bacchus (bacchus@bnr.ca) wrote:
: mcgill@lds.loral.com (Chris McGill 5471) writes:
: >Yeah, the BRAVES bullpen could use some help, but it seems it is always
: >in that state.  
: 
: I've heard that Steve Bedrosian has been invited to join the Braves for
: Spring Training.  I haven't heard much about Bedrock in a while.  Does
: he have any of his old stuff left?  What are his chances of making
: it into Atlanta's bullpen this year?
: 
: -- 
: Mark Bacchus
: bacchus@bnr.ca

I believe he has nothing left. He pitched for the Twins a couple seasons ago
and had a lot of numbness in his throwing arm (hand?). Expect nothing.

--
Scott Hauck                                         (USA) (612) 828-0238
========================================================================
********** Reply to me via scotth@apertus.mn.org until further notice...
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mmilitzo@scott.skidmore.edu (matthew militzok)
Subject: need help with stats
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 16:49:31 GMT

If any one has a file containing the final 1991-1992 Major League
Baseball stats and would be willing to send them to me, I would
greatly appreciate it.  Thanks alot!!
Matt
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: 10-1? Really?
Date: 22 Jan 1993 15:41:09 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

Was anyone else surprised to see the Brewers at 10-1 odds to win the
World Series? I realize the bookmakers set odds based on betting tendencies,
but do they know something we don't?

Proud to be one of the few "statistics don't tell the whole story," beleivers,

--salty

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tloughin@IASTATE.EDU (Thomas M Loughin)
Subject: Re: Phillies/Cards Trade Rumor
Reply-To: tloughin@IASTATE.EDU (Thomas M Loughin)
Organization: Iowa State University
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:00:03 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.055351.25271@bradley.bradley.edu>,
dave@bradley.bradley.edu (David Vessell) writes:
> jnimerof@gradient.cis.upenn.edu (Jeff Nimeroff) writes:
> 
> >As much as I hate rumors, a puzzling one has come across my desk by
> >way of Jayson Stark (a Philly sportswriter).  The rumored trade has
> >John Kruk going to the Cards straight up for Todd Zeile.  Any comments.
> >I have my opinions but this is a PG rated show.  I'll just say that if
> >Kruk is going anywhere it should be in a package for a pitcher.  Ricky
> >Jordan could always play first, and Dave Hollins is a potential superstar
> >at 3rd.  Zeile could always catch :-).
> 
> I don't think this would be a good trade for either team.  Trading Zeile
> would leave the Cards without a decent 3rd baseman.  

Don't they have about ten of them stacked up in their minors?  I'm thinking of 
Wilson, Royer, Woodson (all of whom were picked by one guy in our league 
this year :-}).  Maybe they're just not any good, in which case they should 
do what the Mets do:  pick one, hype the hell out of him, and trade him for 
more than he's worth (or at least try...).  

-Tom.
From: 00bjgood@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Fantasy Baseball
Date: 27 Jan 93 00:19:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: bsu-ucs.1993Jan26.191943.14084
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

I am new to fantasy baseball and want to get a league going with my roomate.
What is the best way to go for a league with only two people? How many teams
should we each have and how many players to draft. Also, will boxscores appear
in any publications (I don't think the Sporting News has them anymore) so we
can play or score the games ourselves. Thanks for any responses
							Brian
From: gt7469a@prism.gatech.EDU (Brian Landmann)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Phillies/Cards Trade Rumor
Date: 22 Jan 93 14:54:12 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In <57697@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith) writes:
 Of course they would have had to
>bench the big cat to do that and that would make Maxvill look like an
>even bigger idiot.

Could Maxvill look like a bigger idiot then he already is?
     
-- 

Brian Landmann        
Georgia Institute of Technology                   Why are we here,  
Internet:gt7469a@prism.gatech.edu                 because we're here.
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Sandberg (was Re: Ty Griffen)
Date: 23 Jan 93 10:05:42 GMT
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago

In article <1jqr5sINNipg@shelley.u.washington.edu> tannerg@carson.u.washington.edu (Glenn Tanner) writes:
>I was hoping someone would mention Hornsby, because I love Bill James's 
>argument against him.  Hornsby put up some big offensive numbers through
>1929, but in his later years he was very well-traveled.  At the end of the 
>'26 season, the Cardinals traded him to the Giants.  He put up a 1.017 OPS,
>but the next year he was playing for Boston.  He posted a 1.100 OPS in his 
>one year there, and in 1929 was playing for Chicago.  James's argument      
>against rating him solely on his stats is that "Too many people had him and
>just couldn't wait to get rid of him...They didn't trade him because they 
>wanted Frankie Frisch or they wanted Shanty Hogan or they had to have Bruce
>Cunningham and $200K.  They traded Hornsby because they wanted to get rid of
>Rogers Hornsby.  The teams that traded Hornsby did not get any worse, and the
>teams that get him didn't get any better."
>
>Comments?

Yeah, I read that also.  I don't know how fair that is.  Jack Clark has
been dumped by four teams while posting high OPS's himself: SF with 971, 
St Louis with 1056, Yankees with 814, and San Diego with 974.  By all
accounts, Hornsby was not a likable guy, but then again, Reggie Jackson
also got a lot of crap when he played.  Tough call.

Is it fair to say the teams didn't get any better?  Didn't the Cubs make
the Series in 1929?  
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
From: dp@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (David Pinedo)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 18:26:23 GMT
Subject: Re: Playoffs
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA