From: sfm@manduca.neurobio.arizona.edu (Stephen Matheson)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Nyikos and the one bad apple theory of forced pregnancy.
Date: 31 Dec 92 18:05:06 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona UNIX Users Group

From article <1992Dec31.041159.22072@watson.ibm.com>,
by margoli@watson.ibm.com (Larry Margolis):
> In <1992Dec31.000140.4189@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>
> sfm@manduca.neurobio.arizona.edu (Stephen Matheson) writes:
>>From article <C03G0J.H94@ra.nrl.navy.mil>, by psl@nrl.navy.mil (Paul Lebow):
>>> In article <1992Dec28.065056.50307@watson.ibm.com> margoli@watson.ibm.com
>>> (Larry Margolis) writes:
>>>> In <nyikos.725150678@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu
>>> (Peter Nyikos) writes:

>>>> >Meanwhile, 1,600,000 unborn children, most of them already in the
>>>> >fetus stage, are aborted each year in the USA alone.

>>>> This would be interesting to see you document this, since the dictionary
>>>> says:
>>>> fetus (n)
>>>> DEFINITIONS:
>>>>     an unborn or unhatched vertebrate esp.
>>>>     after attaining the basic structural plan
>>>>     of its kind; specif : a developing human
>>>>     from usu. three months after conception
>>>>     to birth
>>>> (c) G. & C. Merriam

>>Gosh, I hate to complicate matters, but I must take issue with this
>>definition.  According to my human embryology text, the fetal period begins
>>in the 9th week of gestation when, as the dictionary correctly reports, the
>>criterion for fetushood has been met: attainment of the basic structural
>>plan of a human.  I think you'll find that this is embryology's definition
>>of fetus, and that the dictionary writers were influenced by the popular
>>trimester system which is numerically convenient but is not based on
>>developmental events.

>>>> and the statistics I have show that more than 90% of all abortions in
>>>> the USA are performed in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy.

>>It would be interesting to see how many abortions are performed before and
>>after 9 weeks.

>    50% of the 1.6 million abortions each year take place at 8 weeks or less
>    from the last time the woman menstruated (LMP); 27% at 9-10 weeks LMP; and
>    12% at 11-12 weeks LMP.  6% of abortions take place at 13-15 weeks LMP;
>    4% at 16-20 weeks LMP; and less than 1% at 21 weeks LMP or more (0.6%).
> 
>    About 100 or 0.01% of abortions take place after 24 weeks.

Hard numbers.  Excellent.  To use them in the context of the embryonic-to-
fetal transition (occurring at the beginning of the ninth week of
*gestation*), we must convert your LMP timepoints to gestational time.
This is done by subtracting 2 weeks from LMP weeks, giving us a very
solid approximation of the actual gestational age of the fetus.  The
result:

   50% of the 1.6 million abortions each year take place at 6 weeks or less
   from the time of conception; 27% at 7-8 weeks gestation; and
   12% at 9-10 weeks gestation.  6% of abortions take place at
   11-13 weeks gestation; 4% at 14-18 weeks gestation; and less than 1%
   at 19 weeks gestation or more (0.6%).

   About 100 or 0.01% of abortions take place after 24 weeks (gestation
   or LMP?).

Based on these data, I conclude that 77% of abortions (in the U.S.) are
performed during the embryonic period, 23% during the fetal period, and
0.01% after the current point of viability.  BTW, I may have missed this
info earlier in the thread, but could someone post or email me the source
of these data?  Thanks.

> I don't have any figures for exactly 9 weeks, but even if we go with your
> textbook instead of the common definition, Petey is wrong about "most".

Yes, it would appear that Peter (note corrected spelling) erred.  I remain
fascinated by the inaccuracy of the "common definition": I've now found it
in 2 different dictionaries (although both were Merriam-Webster), while
I know of at least 2 embryology books that flatly contradict it.  Indeed,
I have found no evidence that 3 months was *ever* considered the beginning
of the fetal period.  It's a little unnerving, isn't it?

--

Steve Matheson   Program in Neuroscience   University of Arizona
sfm@neurobio.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: talk.abortion