From: georgew@hspice.portal.com (George Wu)
Subject: Re: Asian-male stereotyping, how?
Keywords: underdog
Organization: Meta - Software
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 01:04:01 GMT

In article <1992Dec24.233314.518@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>In article <42842@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> mcovingt@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Maiko Covington)
>writes:

>>two points here: (1) Do you not realize that a lot of things that
>>are now Japanese were brought over from China? Are all of these
>>things bad?
>
>Most of those things are bad.
>
>> (2) Maybe you do not realize it, but the Japanese are
>>guilty of a lot of the same sins you blame the Chinese for, most
>>notably conceiving of Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese as separate
>>races, and assuming that Japanese-Americans are "Japanese" because
>
>Case in point of a bad "import" from China.
>
>I have already noted this; Ms. Covington should ask Mr. Pak to repost the
>only article that I wrote but which he thought was very good.
>
>>of their blood and their blood alone.   It is a result of having a
>>society with little racial diversity in it at present.
>>	All cultures have their good points and their failings.
>>Let's try to have a bit of an open mind, shall we? If not, you are
>>merely repeating the sins of the "Chinese" people you hate so much.
>
>I do not hate Chinese-ge people.
>
>I know several foreign students who say that they hate American-cu
>culture, but no one--including me--interprets that to mean that
>they hate American people.  Sure.  Some Chinese-cu
>people chomp at the bit, thinking that means that they hate American
>people.  But the rest of us are a bit more open-minded.
>
>By the way, I am very much conerned about the welfare of all children
>--that includes Chinese-ge children.  I see them as the future of humanity.
>Chinese-cu see otherwise.  Jerks.
>
>>		Maiko Covington
>> (pulls up asbestos undies)
>
>Mai-chan, undies o kite iru toki kawaii n desu ka.

     Yes, I'm working on Christmas Eve.  Well, I've got all of next week off
and plan to hit the slopes real soon now, so no more flames from me for a
while.

-
     Welcome to the Dwight Joe FAQ.  This article is a standard rebuttal to
certain beliefs Dwight Joe routinely expounds in soc.culture.asian.american.
Specifically, Dwight Joe believes Chinese culture intrinsically incorporates
racism, sexism, infanticide, child abuse, and I suppose, other unsavory
characteristics.  For a full example of his beliefs, the reader is referred
to his many postings, one of which drew this response and is therefore
specified in the References: line of the header.

     The motivation behind this canned response is my belief an undue amount
of bandwidth is wasted concerning Dwight Joe's beliefs.  Dwight Joe has shown
a tendency to respond to any topic under discussion by espousing his
anti-Chinese feelings.  This, in turn, spoils many good threads of debate as
many readers of scaa, long tired of reading such nonsense, automatically add
the thread to their kill files.  Such readers are instead urged to add
/underdog/h:j to their kill files.  This may deny Dwight Joe a goal I suspect
he pursues, that of censoring discussion on Chinese culture and government.

     Hence, if you're reading this message, and are considering a followup
merely to rebut Dwight Joe's response, I strongly urge you to reconsider.
We most surely understand the frustration and resentment you're probably
feeling, because we've shared it first-hand over the last few years.
Certainly, if you have something valuable to add, please feel free to do so.
However, I think it quite likely what most of the scaa readership has already
heard it, as we're all too familiar with Dwight Joe and the responses he
draws.  *Please*, under most circumstances, you should not respond to Dwight
Joe at all, only to the original topic under discussion.

     Getting to the rebuttal, it is my contention Dwight Joe's beliefs are
without scientific foundation, and in fact, unmitigated racism or incitement
thereof.  Certainly, some individuals of Chinese society practice some of the
above, just as some members of any society deviate from "normal morality."
However, in the absence of scientific evidence showing Chinese society displays
these features with a greater frequency than other cultural groups, I contend
any civilized person must follow a simple moral principle: innocent until
proven guilty.  Dwight Joe has been repeatedly called upon to substantiate his
claims with references to an independent study.  He has consistently ignored
such calls, and in fact, often cites a single anecdote as proof that an entire
culture incorporates a particular practice.  Without any real evidence, one
should not make such wild accusations.  To do so smacks of racism and bigotry.

     Even if his claims were to be substantiated, which they have not, such
faults would not justify Dwight Joe's calls for the dissolution of Chinese
culture.  All societies have their faults, but such faults do not warrant their
destruction.  American society has been accused of sexism, racism, and
violence.  Yet no one (I know) calls for the abolition of American culture.
Yet Dwight Joe calls for the substitution of Chinese culture with Western
culture.  One does not treat a wart by shooting the man; one treats the wart.

     Another telling habit of Dwight Joe is to classify those who disagree with
him as Chinese.  He himself gets uppity when others claim Dwight Joe is Chinese
himself because (a) he has a Chinese surname, and (b) at least one scaa regular
has met his brother and hence is in a position to know.  Yet, one the basis of
a poster's opinions, Dwight Joe turns about and makes similar claims to ethnic
origin.  Such two-faced behavior demonstrates the hypocrisy and illogic of his
arguments.

     Finally, Dwight Joe uses a particular notation.  For the edification of
the new reader, I explain it here.  The notation involves abbreviating certain
words:

	Chinese-cu: Chinese culture, ie. raised as a Chinese;
	Chinese-ge: Chinese genetically, ie. bearing certain physical features;
	Chinese-ci: Chinese citizenship, ie. of a particular country.

I believe these distinctions, as used by Dwight Joe, are merely camouflage,
for his own mind as well as others.  Dwight Joe uses these terms to deflect
accusations of racism from himself by redefining racism to specifically
exclude his beliefs.  Such denials, however, are worthless, as Dwight Joe's
repeatedly posted opinions make it clear he holds significant predjudice
against Chinese society.
-- 
----
George J Wu,  Superior Maker of Technical Snafus,  georgew@metasw.com
Meta-Software,  1300 White Oaks Road,  Campbell, CA 95008,  (408) 369-5400
Never be the first to believe.  Never be the last to deceive.  ---  Chess
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:11077 ca.politics:10461 soc.motss:53277