HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dce@smsc.sony.com (David Elliott)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: What's still running in CA?
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:42:38 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Sony Microsystems, San Jose, CA


In article <1992Sep9.224413.10878@smsc.sony.com>, dce@smsc.sony.com (David Elliott) writes:
|> 	MF American
|> 		I don't know if it's worth doing, but you can run it on
|> 		Saturdays.

I believe that this is no longer true.  The rumor is that last Saturday
was the last release.  (I ran it in a paddle raft, and the only real
problem was the wind in the lake above Ruck-a-Chucky.  The take-out
road has been thankfully shortened, and the Ruck-a-Chucky portage trail
has been completed.)

|> The NF Stanislaus has been at 160 all summer, which is just high enough
|> for a really lousy IK run; give us another 100cfs one day a week!

The rumor is that this ran 500cfs on Sunday (I wish I had known this).
Speculation is that when Goodwin Dam opens up that the upper runs will
open up as well.  Anyone know anything for sure?

-- 
...David Elliott
...dce@smsc.sony.com | ...!{uunet,mips}!sonyusa!dce
...(408)944-4073
..."I take my arms and I wrap them around my art." - F
From: eda0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ERIC DEAN ASPNES)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Dagger Crosfire
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:39:07 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University


    I am in the market for a dagger crosfire.  I'm wondering
    where would be the best place to find one in the NYC to Phil.
    area.  ie bets prices or best store.
        I was also wondering about Kayak clubs in the same area.
    And anything at all about kayaking in the Allentown, Bethlem,
    Easton area.  All information will be much apreciated.  And
    thanks for your support.
            Eric Aspnes


    
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: chrbid@auto-trol.com (Chris Bidwell)
Subject: Re: Paddle length for C-1
Originator: chrbid@chrbid
Organization: Auto-trol Technology Corporation
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 14:38:39 GMT

I am 5'10" and use a 55" paddle.  This is a
bit long for my friends who use a 54" paddle (same height).  I like the
increased reach and leverage of the extra inch or two.  The drawback is 
that with a longer paddle, you may need to feather the blade to get it
out of the water on your off-side.  I use a standard pedestal height of
7" in my Gyromax and a painfully low 6" in my converted Corsica C-1. 
Changes in the pedestal height and/or a long/short torso will affect the 
paddle length that is best.

One note is that my wooden paddles quickly wear down so I buy a 56" paddle and 
by the end of the first season it is a perfect 55".  Buy one with a metal tip
if you don't want it wearing down so fast.

-Chris
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: gpaul@phx.mcd.mot.com (Gerry Paul)
Subject: Buying an Canoe
Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Tempe, Az.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 21:36:50 GMT

This is a follow up to an artcle that I sent last week requesting 
advice on purchasing a canoe.

I want to first thank those of you who took the time to send 
replies.The information I recieved was valuable. One comment was 
repeated in every reply: buy a larger (16' or 17') boat. 

In order to heed your advice, and to keep within my original budget, 
I am looking more seriously into the used market.

Please comment on what to beware of when looking at a used canoe.  
Please also comment on the expected lifetime of royalex, 
fiberglass, or aluminum.  One canoe that is available in my area 
is a 15 year old royalex Blue Hole.  Is 15 years too old for 
royalex? I know that royalex can be patched, but can the vinyl 
exterior be painted or touched-up if necessary?

Thank you for any help you can give.  Please reply on the net or 
to my mail address: gpaul@phx.mcd.mot.com
From: root@ute.Columbia.NCR.COM
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: dry suit and winter gear
Summary: Try a dry *top*
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:00:07 GMT
Organization: NCR Corp, E&M-Columbia, Columbia, SC

In article <BuKL8r.8nv@well.sf.ca.us>
   sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy) writes:
> I know I need to get a dry suit but wanted to get some feedback
> from folks before in vesting in one.  Is is better to get a 2 piece or
> a one piece suit, I heard the two piece suits leak.

A dry top is a lot less hassle and a lot less expensive than a dry suit.
Combined with a good spray skirt a dry top should keep you warm as long
as you don't swim, or don't spend too much time out of your boat scouting
or portaging.  I have both a dry top and a dry suit; I only wear the dry
suit if I'm in my squirt boat, if I'm paddling something that's really
difficult, or if it very cold.

> What brand is good and what should I look for in buying one.

I like the Kokatat (sp?) Meridian dry suit and dry top.  Both have tunnel
waists that mate with with spray skirts.  They also have nice neoprene
cuffs and collars that protect the latex seals.

Barry Shelton                                        Question Authority!
barry@ute.columbiasc.ncr.com                   Resist much, obey little.

Standard disclaimer.
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: What's still running in CA?
Date: 10 Sep 1992 18:50:58 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
Distribution: ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: cairo

dce@smsc.sony.com (David Elliott) writes:
> 
> MF American
>	I don't know if it's worth doing, but you can run it Saturdays.

I ran this eight years ago, and haven't been back since, so what does
that tell you?  It starts off with some good class III, then you choose
an easy portage or a random-dump class V, then a little more class III,
then a IV.  After that it's lake time, flatwater city, brutal paddling
past patches of poison oak.  Then you get to choose again-- a bad 4WD
takeout road, or a portage around an unrunnable rapid.

The lower MF American, from Greenwood bridge site down to Mammoth Bar
off-road vehicle site, is class II.  It is a nice wilderness run, and
should be more popular than it is for canoes and duckies.

> Did I miss anything in CA?

Yes, the Yuba below Engelbright dam is an OK kayak run, with some class
III, one class IV, then miles of flatwater mixed with class II.
From: jwmorris@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Jeff Morris)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Paddle length for C-1
Date: 9 Sep 92 14:08:56 GMT
Reply-To: jwmorris@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Jeff Morris)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.boats.paddle, breck@saul.cis.upenn.edu (Breck Baldwin) writes:
*I have just bought a slasher C-1 and a Mitchel paddle, but I don't
*know how long the paddle should be. i am 6'1" and am pretty skinny(
*160 lbs).  In a kayak I use a 206cm paddle.
*
*What i need to know is what the typical ranges are for a C-1er of my
*specs.  It won't do to say, what ever feels good because i don't know
*enough to evaluate when things feel "right".
*
*Thanks
*
*breck

Charlie Walbridge recommends in his Wildwater Designs catalog that,
for a decked canoe, measure the distance from the floor to your collarbone.
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: jeff@Unify.Com (Jeff Mischkinsky)
Subject: Re: What's still running in CA?
Organization: Unify Corporation, Sacramento, CA, USA
Distribution: ca
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 19:10:57 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.224413.10878@smsc.sony.com> dce@smsc.sony.com (David Elliott) writes:
>OK, so we're moving into that nether-region of whitewater.  As
>I understand it, we have the following runs available to us:
>
>	SF American
>		Recent flows on weekends have been around 1200cfs.
>		According to one person, there's a lot of water in the
>		reservoir, and with repairs coming up (when?), we may
>		have nice flows, especially during the rodeo (when?).
Rodeo is saturday Sept. 19 at Chili Bar.  They will probably release at
least 1700 and start earlier than usual.
>
>	MF American
>		I don't know if it's worth doing, but you can run it on
>		Saturdays.
Its worth doing.  I know lots of people who have been running it on Sats.
>
>	Camp Nine (Stansilaus)
>		It was running around 600cfs this weekend, which is
>		quite reasonable.  I've heard of some much higher
>		releases this summer, but nothing regular.
releases are higher midweek.  sometimes you luck out on weekends (sat
is more likely and get 900-1500)
>
>	Trinity
>		500cfs; What can I say about 500cfs?  It's too low
>		to make anything fun, except that it's too high
>		to run Burnt Ranch in an IK (come on, 400!).
i was just there last weekend.  we did the class III pigeon point run
in ik's and hard shells. it was mellow, but lots of fun.  the river is
not crowded, unlike the SFA zoo.

Don't forget the Rogue.  They have increased the releases to something
reasonable now (up from the mid-summer blues of 800) in honor of the
salmon.  The permit season either just ended or ends in the next week or
2, i'm not sure exactly when.
>
>Any predictions on early rainy-season runs?
yes, it is definitely going to rain early, rain often, and rain hard :-)


-- 
Jeff Mischkinsky		internet: jeff@unify.com
Unify Corporation		          ...!{pyramid,csusac}!unify!jeff
3901 Lennane Drive		voice: (916) 928-6262 fax: (916) 928-6401
Sacramento, CA 95834		ICBMS: 38 38 40 N / 120 28 10 W
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: ycheah@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: WANTED: Aquaterra Spectrum sea kayak
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 02:09:02 GMT

I am looking to buy a used Aquaterra Spectrum S sea kayak. I am interested in 
one with the "expedition" option package (ie. stern bulkhead, stern hatch, knee
braces, etc.). If you have paddles, PFDs, and spray skirts, I will take those
too. Please reply by e-mail.

Yin-chai

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: janis@unislc.uucp (Janis Huber)
Subject: Re: dry suit and winter gear
Reply-To: janis@unislc.UUCP (Janis Huber,B1E05,5392)
Organization: Unisys, Salt Lake City
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:17:08 GMT

In article <BuKL8r.8nv@well.sf.ca.us> sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy) writes:
>
>I just started kayaking this summer and now am preparing for winter
>paddling.  I know I need to get a dry suit but wanted to get some feedback
>from folks before in vesting in one.  Is is better to get a 2 piece or
>a one piece suit, I heard the two piece suits leak.  What brand is good and
>what should I look for in buying one.  I have NO CLUE about any of this and
>would greatly apprciate any help at all.  Thanks
>Kim


Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: gudmund@playfair.Stanford.EDU (Gudmund Host)
Subject: Squirt boat
Reply-To: gudmund@playfair.Stanford.EDU (Gudmund Host)
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: su
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 21:40:23 GMT

I just moved to California, and want to get a new, custom-fit squirt boat, a Bigfoot. Where should I order this?  I have heard that ordering through New Wave might take up to 8 months, which is out of the question for me.



Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: toddl@ecs.comm.mot.com (Todd Leigh)
Subject: Re: Paddle length for C-1
Organization: trunking_fixed
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 15:02:06 GMT
Summary: Under your armpit
Keywords: Feet hurt crutch
      

The rule of thumb is that if you are standing up, the grip of the paddle 
should come to just under your armpit.  This may vary a little with
preference, but if you are just getting going it's a good place to start.

The reason I've heard for this is that after a day in the river in the C-1,
you can use the paddle as a crutch.

Half the paddle, twice the man...

Todd.
-- 
Todd Leigh                Motorola Inc.      Opinions expressed here are
toddl@ecs.comm.mot.com    Schaumburg, IL     not those of "THE MANAGEMENT"
Facts all come with point of view. Facts don't do what I want them to.
                                           - Talking Heads
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy)
Subject: dry suit and winter gear
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 13:24:26 GMT


I just started kayaking this summer and now am preparing for winter
paddling.  I know I need to get a dry suit but wanted to get some feedback
from folks before in vesting in one.  Is is better to get a 2 piece or
a one piece suit, I heard the two piece suits leak.  What brand is good and
what should I look for in buying one.  I have NO CLUE about any of this and
would greatly apprciate any help at all.  Thanks
Kim
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: dry suit and winter gear
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 16:21:36 GMT

I prefer a dry top + wet suit pants (not farmer John's) (e.g.
Patagonia's Molten Core pants).  I find wet suit pants to
make for great battle armour during brutal swims, as well as
great insulation.

Other Gear:
	Poggies. I like Stolquists Yellow Jackets.
	Skull cap.

--Chris
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy)
Subject: Re: dry suit and winter gear
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 01:11:39 GMT


II've had several folks suggest wet suits instead.  How cold are we talking
when you say use a wet suit or wet suit pants instead?
From: gt4302c@prism.gatech.EDU (THOMSEN)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Guidebook opinions
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:37:21 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Here is an opinion from the southeast:
All guidebooks I know for this area (GA,NC,SC,AL,KY,TN) are
old and do not give appropriate difficulty ratings.
A description of the Russell Fork, KY/VA:
"Although these truly dangerous rapids have been run, there is
no reason to downgrade them to class 5"
This is an easy to moderate class 5 run, no portages required.
Or the Green river, in Bob Benners Carolina WW:
"After passing through a boulder strewn gorge..."
Well, this gorge is the Narrows and gets a lot of use these days.
All of these guidebooks were done by open boaters in the seventies.
The good class 5 runs of today are not even mentioned and the
class 4 runs sound scary.
Exceptions are WV-WW and Appalacian WW which gives at least a
good selection of class 4 runs and has maps.
Just my 2 cents
Axel
See y'all at the Gauley.
-- 
AXEL THOMSEN
Georgia Institute of Technology, POBox 34302, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
Internet: gt4302c@prism.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: janis@unislc.uucp (Janis Huber)
Subject: Dry Suit Recommendations
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:23:48 GMT

I think my comments on the followup article were lost, so I'll try this 
once more:

In article <BuKL8r.8nv@well.sf.ca.us> sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy) writes:
>
>I just started kayaking this summer and now am preparing for winter
>paddling.  I know I need to get a dry suit but wanted to get some feedback
>from folks before in vesting in one.  Is is better to get a 2 piece or
>a one piece suit, I heard the two piece suits leak.  What brand is good and
>what should I look for in buying one.  I have NO CLUE about any of this and
>would greatly apprciate any help at all.  Thanks
>Kim

Although I am no expert, here's my two cents worth:

1.  Neck gaskets.  Beware of any drysuits that have been hanging on a 
    rack all season...especially under a light.  If you stretch the 
    neck and see cracks or it sticks to itself.. it will probably need
    replaced soon.  This may seem like a minor point...but I know of at-
    least one person who wore their new drysuit out for the first 
    outing and split the neck gasket.  Duct tape does not work well on
    holding together the gasket!!

2.  Fit.  Remember you will be sitting most of the day so I suggest putting
    the prospective drysuit on, sitting on the floor and extending your
    arms all the way forward.  Make sure there is no "pulling" from the
    drysuit and make sure it is comfortable.  

3.  Covered leg, arm, and neck gaskets (usually made out of neoprene with 
    velcro for a closure).  This is an added plus, but not mandatory.  The
    sun will wear out the gaskets that are exposed.  However, covered gaskets
    are harder to replace.  One suggestion, when drying outdoors, tuck 
    any exposed gaskets under and out of reach from the sun's rays.

4.  The "closure".  On the last "net" comparison of drysuits, this area
    had the most discussion.  Actually my drysuit, a kokatat, with the 
    front zipper got the worst rating.  It has leaked (very minor) enough
    to dampen my polypro shirt.  The closures I've seen are:
                       front zipper
                       front folding  (like a drybag closure)
                       back zipper  

5.  I also like the extra flap over the sprayskirt so that less water
    will get in the boat through the waist of a sprayskirt (much less water
    my feet will be in!).  However, you can pick up a cheap windbreaker 
    that will do the same thing!  

Hope this has helped.





						Janis
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: dry suit and winter gear
Date: 14 Sep 1992 18:45:45 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: cairo

sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy) writes:
> 
> I just started kayaking this summer and now am preparing for winter
> paddling.  I know I need to get a dry suit but wanted to get some feedback
> from folks before investing in one.  Is is better to get a 2 piece or
> a one piece suit, I heard the two piece suits leak.  What brand is good and
> what should I look for in buying one.

I can't tell from your name whether you are male or female.  If you are
male I recommend a one-piece, if you are female I recommend a two-piece.
Most kayak runs cannot be done without an intervening "nature break" and
it's great if you can accomplish this without contracting hypothermia.
With a two-piece women can pull down the bottom piece while remaining warm
from the waist up.  Men can even pay extra for a waterproof zipper fly,
which is what I did.  Both options may save money in the long run because
they reduce wear and tear on the neck and arm gaskets.

Kokatat makes good drysuits.  I have a goretex Kokatat, which works well,
though in warm weather I prefer a wetsuit.  Some people think goretex only
lasts until the ScotchGuard wears off, so be forewarned.  Avilastic drysuits
are cheaper and perhaps more comfortable.  Plus they come in red, my color.
If you sweat a lot, goretex will never keep up, so save your money and buy
regular coated nylon material.  If you are a good kayaker with a bombproof
roll, consider a drytop, unless you plan on bivouacing in the rain.
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Water Filters
Date: 4 Sep 1992 21:57:15 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: cairo

I'd be interested in hearing reports about any of the new water filters
such as MSR, PUR, etc.  There is being discussed in rec.backcountry, but
paddlers have different needs than backpackers, since rivers are usually
more turbid and polluted than mountain streams.  We have a Katadyn that
we're considering trading in for a PUR because of its higher speed and
iodine matrix.

		REI Water Filter Comparison Table

						Timber	Basic
	      Katadyn	MSR	PUR	1stNeed	line	Designs
min pore size	.2	.1	1 + I	.4	2	1
dry weight	23 oz	19 oz	21 oz	14 oz	6 oz	12 oz
seconds/qt	120	90	60	90	70	grav-	(when new)
seconds/qt	120	180	60	180	140	 ity	(after 1 year)
filter life	1000	500	500	100	100	1000	(in gallons)
cost/gallon	$.25	$.28	$.24	$.37	$.30	$.07
retail price	$225	$140	$130	$38	$30	$65
replacement	$89	$50	$40	$24	n/a	$40	(filter cost)
# elements	2	4	3	1	1	2
elements	screen	foam	screen	carbon	polypro	carbon
		ceramic	screen	fiberglass		ceramic
			carbon	iodine
			paper

Notes: 1st Need, Timberline, and Basic Designs require iodine to treat
bacteria and viruses.  Katadyn and MSR require iodine to treat viruses.
Only PUR requires no additional iodine.  With carbon elements, only MSR,
1st Need, and Basic Designs remove harmful chemicals.
From: dalea@engr.latech.edu ((Dale  O. Anderson, Ph.D. ))
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Kayak certification
Date: 14 Sep 92 22:11:16 GMT
Reply-To: dalea@engr.latech.edu ((Dale  O. Anderson, Ph.D. ))
Distribution: usa
Organization: Louisiana Tech University, Mechanical Engineering

Does anyone out there know of any certifications for white water kayakers?
If so, who do I contact and what are the requirements?

Thanks in advance!!!

Dale O. Anderson, Ph.D., Assoc. Prof. of Mechanical Engineering
Scientific Animation & Imaging Lab, Louisiana Tech University
Any opinions expressed are strictly my own!!!
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: toddl@ecs.comm.mot.com (Todd Leigh)
Subject: Long drive to the river (waa) (was Re: Info on Cleveland WW Clubs Needed)
Organization: trunking_fixed
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:37:39 GMT
Summary: only 2-2.5 hours? luxury!!!
Keywords: long drives

In <keZNqB4w165w@bluemoon.rn.com> daves@bluemoon.rn.com (David E. Scott) writes:
>...You're not all that close to W.VA when you're in Cleveland: you could 
>be as much as 2-2.5 hours away.
>Dave

Stop teasing us, Dave.  Here in Chicago it's a 12+ hour drive to W.Va.
Driving 2-2.5 hours is a luxury, and should not be taken for granted.  I
drive further than that for an afternoon paddle on the whitewater that is
closest to my house (the Vermillion river in central Illinois or the East
Race of the St. Joseph river in S. Bend, Indiana.)

If only Indiana and Ohio weren't there.

You have to be committed to be a whitewater boater in Chicago.

Or maybe you should be committed.

Have fun,

Todd.
-- 
Todd Leigh                Motorola Inc.      Opinions expressed here are
toddl@ecs.comm.mot.com    Schaumburg, IL     not those of "THE MANAGEMENT"
Facts all come with point of view. Facts don't do what I want them to.
                                           - Talking Heads
From: breck@saul.cis.upenn.edu (Breck Baldwin)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Paddle length for C-1
Date: 8 Sep 92 22:25:10 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


I have just bought a slasher C-1 and a Mitchel paddle, but I don't
know how long the paddle should be. i am 6'1" and am pretty skinny(
160 lbs).  In a kayak I use a 206cm paddle. 

What i need to know is what the typical ranges are for a C-1er of my 
specs.  It won't do to say, what ever feels good because i don't know 
enough to evaluate when things feel "right".  

Thanks

breck
From: breck@saul.cis.upenn.edu (Breck Baldwin)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Kayak certification
Date: 15 Sep 92 16:21:59 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


The only certification that I know of, outside of racing classifications, 
is ACA Kayak Instructor Certification.  Won't do you much good unless you 
want to teach.  If you get a good teacher, you can learn alot though, so 
the certification is a good process to go through, esp. if you can get 
Linda Harrison--don't even know if she does them anymore.

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle