From: elandal@archtwr.tower.nullnet.fi (Ismo Peltonen)
Subject: Re: GURPS ST (Was Re: Thoughts on GURPS)
Organization: Chambers of the Archmage
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 07:46:22 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

CX6L (CX6L@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA) wrote:
: In article <2B64AF5E.20190@ics.uci.edu> mmadsen@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Matt Madsen) writes:
: 
: It means the maximum that the character can push, pull, lift or
: hurl, using Extra Effort, under normal circumstances (ie - no
: special preparation, no lever, etc).

  I don't think it covers pushing, pulling or hurling.

Pulling should be thought as per Drag (on rough surface all the weight
counts in encumbrance, on smooth only half, half again if dragging a
sledge on snow (sledge should be counted in the weight but would be
halved too)).

Pushing perhaps as per Dragging or Shove and Knock Over (25*ST or 50*ST
with running start ('Ouch!')).

Hurling is definitely throwing (distance thrown depends on weight/ST
ratio as per Supers (1st and 2nd both have the table) or, with normal
ST range as per Basic Set (it's the same as ST 10 with Supers table,
but is good enough with small variation).

: >If it's not, strength isn't linear
: >GURPS, as they claim.
: 
: Show me this claim. I couldn't find it. I think this is common gamer
: myth, and not a GURPS rule! Almost seven years of GURPSing, and I've
: seen no such rule . . .

  It could be deduced from encumbrance table. But that's only ONE thing
ST is used for.

: >To clarify, the point is _not_ that you can't make a character who can lift
: >600 pounds; the point is that you can't make a character who is four times
: >as strong as average.

  In 'normal' (that's 100+40+5?) campaign perhaps not, but in other
campaigns it might be possible, in supers it's trivial.
  (I'm not quite sure 100+40+5 is normal since I've played more in
200+60+5, 250+80+5, 50+40+5 campaigns not to think about 600+100+5 or
150+60+5 or..)

: Maybe not, but hear me out.
: 
: Lifting:
:      Requires a ST roll. So a ST 10 rolls 10 or less to lift his
: Maximum Normal Lift of 250 pounds. A ST 14 person can lift at 40%
: Extra Effort on 10 or less, and a ST 18 person at 80% Extra Effort
: on 10 or less.
:  So:    ST 10    10 or less    250 pounds
:         ST 14    10 or less    490 pounds, or 1.96 times ST 10
:         ST 18    10 or less    810 pounds, or 3.24 times ST 10

  This isn't linear but a combination of linear and geometric, I
believe. Four times as strong is then 1000 pounds with roll of 10 or
less, or ST 20 (exactly 1000 pounds). Twice would be around ST 14,
thrice around ST 17 (722.5 pounds).

: Striking:
: ST 10     Average Thrust (1d-2): 1.67
:           Average Swing  (1d):   3.50
: ST 14     Average Thrust (1d):   3.50, or 2.1 times ST 10
:           Average Swing  (2d):   7.00, or 2.0 times ST 10
: ST 18     Average Thrust (1d+2): 5.50, or 3.3 times ST 10
:           Average Swing  (3d):   10.5, or 3.0 times ST 10

  So we can see that every 4 points adds 1.17 (thrust) or 1.0 (swing) to
the multiplier. Thus four times the normal is ST 21 (thrust 2d = 7,
swing 4d-1 = 14). OK, that four points for each multiplier wasn't
exact.. It's more around 3.7 points or alike.

: Carrying:
:      A "standard pack" of 72 pounds.
:      ST 10, 6*ST < 72 < 12*ST, so Heavy Encumbrance, -3 Move
:      ST 14, 4*ST < 72 <  6*ST, so Medium Encumbrance, -2 Move
:      ST 18, 2*ST < 72 <  4*ST, so Light Encumbrance, -1 Move
: 
:      Hence ST 14 experiences 1/2, and ST 18 merely 1/3  of the
: slowing effects of encumbrance felt by ST 10.

  But there is no such thing as 1/4 penalty unless we put more weight
into it to get that ST 10 to extra heavy. Hmm.. There is something.. ST
14 gets 2/3 of the penalty ST 10 gets, not half.

: Now look at these calculations: I think you will agree, that for
: all relevant purposes (within the average game), a ST 14 character
: is TWICE as strong as a ST 10 character, and a ST 18 character
: is THREE TIMES as strong as a ST 10 character.
:     Note this: (18/10) = 1.8, (1.8)**2 = 3.24, or about 3
:                (14/10) = 1.4, (1.4)**2 = 1.96, or about 2
:  . . see the point? ST is QUADRATIC in GURPS, not linear. *IF*

  It's not. It's more around ...**1.9 or 1.8. And even that wouldn't
work. Perhaps something like (ST*x-y)**z or.. I'll skip the calculations
for now..
-- 
Elandal		(aka Ismo Peltonen)			| Hanuripolku 5B15
home (UUCP)	elandal@archtwr.tower.NullNet.FI	| 00420 Helsinki
Univ (internet)	ipeltone@cc.Helsinki.FI			| FINLAND
data		+358-0-5072005			voice	+358-0-537515