From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Separation of Church and State, A Myth
Date: 21 Nov 92 00:15:42 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

Peter Nykos writes, in part, about my postings on reincarnation
and Christianity:


>>In the life between death and a new birth you will see your
>>deeds in a different light.  Having received the forgiveness
>>of Christ, your debt to the world for doing them is forgiven,
>>but there will remain the ghastly imperfection that your
>>violence has impressed upon your soul.  This you will strive
>>to correct by creating, with divine help, the conditions
>>in your next incarnation under which you can correct these
>>imperfections.
>
>This "next incarnation" business appeals to me.  However,
>while it is taught by many religions, is not an integral part
>of Christianity.  Of course, it is compatible with it, unless
>one takes literally the passage in the book of _Hebrews_ where
>it is said that it is given to man to die but once, and then
>comes the Judgment.  
>
>>  You will also have to face those whom you
>>did wrong, and the interchange between you and them will be
>>difficult, unless out of insight the new encounter can lead
>>to an act of forgiveness.
>
>[...]
>
>>A time will come, however, when there are no more chances to
>>return to earth to do what must be done.  This will be due to
>>the deterioration of the earth itself. At this time, you will
>>be what you have become and will have to carry that onwards.
>>This will be the last Judgement.
>
>These last two paragraphs I've saved, taken together, are puzzling.  If Gerry 
>believes the new incarnations are on earth, how are we supposed to come
>together with, much less recognize, the people whom we wronged in this
>life?  If there are some special conditions ("I saw a new heaven and a
>new earth, for the old had passed away."--something like this is in the
>book of Revelations) that arise on the earth to make all this possible,
>why should the "new earth" wear out?
>
>Peter Nyikos


Peter's questions are intelligent and touch on two of the most
important principles of a Christian understanding of reincarnation
and karma.

As for the famous passage in Hebrews, Rudolf Frieling in his
"Reincarnation and Christianity" goes into this passage and
argues that it does not refute reincarnation, and it is not
even talking about reincarnation. Rather the subject is the
fact that Christ incarnated once and once only and compares
it to the experience of "judgement" (krisis - note, not "the
judgement).  The passage is about a page long, and I will
send it to you via e-mail, unless someone else would like
to see it too.  Frieling goes on to discuss other N.T. passages,
and especially the eschatalogical writings concerning the
Last Judgement and also the resurrection of the body.

The second question, about how we come together to meet the ones
we have wronged, and also the ones we have begun unfinished
work with, raises the whole question of karma and "how karma
works".  And to really understand this, one must take into
account the whole order of the spiritual worlds and all the
angelic beings of different ranks who live and work in it.
The weaving of destiny is a vast topic, and it is not discussed
in the Bible, as also there is next to no discussion of the
subject of what happens to the individual between death and
the last judgement.  For an understanding of how karma or
destiny works, I point you to the work of Rudolf Steiner.
Not that it should be accepted on faith -- he doesn't give
it that way -- but it can provide a framework for understanding
this process, which really is as important to understanding
the nature of each human being, including ourselves, as is
the understanding of biology, anatomy, and psychology.

As for recognizing those whom our destiny brings to meet us
here on earth, this recognition is usually unconscious or
semi-conscious.  How often have a man and woman met and 
felt, "It is as if we have known each other forever".  Other
times we meet someone in a certain situation and we somehow
just "know" what has to be done.  In the future, people will
be more conscious of their past lives together when they
meet. This has to do with changes in human consciousness
over the centuries since the time of Christ.  I can't go
into more detail here.  Of course, after death we do meet
again in the spiritual world.

The New Heavens and the New Earth spoken of in Revelation
is something that is revealed at the last judgement, or
rather after it (Rev. 21-22).  The seeds of it, and of the
bodies of resurrection in which we will dwell in it, or
outside it, have been planted with Christ's deed on Golgotha
and are continually growing.  But just as our days and 
nights of waking and sleeping will one day end in our
death, so too the cycles of our earth lives will one day
end, and then we will be what we have become -- and we
will be redeemed to the extent that we have freely let
the saving power of Christ enter and permeate our being.

This is an inadequate summary, but I hope it at least touched
on your comments.  There are many serious issues concerning the 
idea of reincarnation and karma from a Christian perspective that
need to be discussed.

Best regards,
Gerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc