HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Fermat's flunkeys (was Re: A Real Challenge)
Date: 13 Apr 92 00:42:18 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Dave Aronson writes about "Fermat's flunkeys (was Re: A Real Challenge)" to
All  [12 Apr 92 15:11]

 MS> I can't understand how someone who can read
 MS> only at the second-grade level can get a HS diploma.

DA>   I can't understand how a nation can let its schools, the very 
DA> people in  charge of its most precious resource for nearly half 
DA> of said resource's  waking hours, get away with such waste of 
DA> said resources! 

DA>  Pretty soon they'll have to change the grade-level definitions 
DA> to  reflect the sorry state of American schools. That seems to 
DA> be the only  way the school systems will have the BALLS to get 
DA> our HS grads back to  reading at a 12th-grade level.... 

It may be that we will have to have a complete shake up in the entire school
systems and change the way that things are done.

Someone, somewhere once suggested that the school systems should be made private,
and that industry should pay for the schools.  On the surface, this sounds like
a good idea, especially if no particular school were sponsored by any particular
company or industry.  However, I fear that if this happens that cirriculae would
be be designed to produce secretaries, computer operators, programmers, applied
scientists, business majors, and the like--and that arts, literature, history,
and the like would be neglected.  Other people have suggested that only those
who go to school (or their parents) should pay for schooling because they are
the only ones who pay for it.  That philosophy fails to take into account that
whenever a member of society is educated, the entire society benefits--either
directly by the work done by the person, or indirectly because the person isn't
on welfare (yes; I know that getting an education doesn't guarantee that someone
won't be on welfare, but the more the education, the less changes of someone
going on welfare), and therefore, everyone should pay to run the schools.
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Issac Asimov
Date: 10 Apr 92 08:00:15 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Dave Aronson writes about "Issac Asimov" to All  [09 Apr 92 23:20]

 > high-IQ people can be
 > just as stupid as low-IQ people--much more stupid, in
 > fact, because they think they are bright.  They tend to
 > be mind-proud, veiw themselves as a persecuted minority,
 > and are, in general, unbearable.
 >
 > The worst thing of all is that they are forever trying to
 > challenge each other, and I was a particular target.  The
 > young kids at Mensa were forever trying to shoot the old
 > man down, and I didn't want to play the game.  Eventually,
 > I simply resigned.

 MS> The quote [ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith)] so graciously
 MS> provided was about the early days of Mensa when we did 
 MS> have some members who were as Asimov described.

DA>   And we don't any more??? Sure we do. I bet you've even met 
DA> some. But  thankfully, they are a small minority, far fewer, 
DA> at least in  percentage, now than they were then

Sure we do, but as you said, they are a small minority, whereas when Asimov
was first a member, there were lots more of them.  They either matured, got
left behind as everyone else matured (and more mature people joined), to the
point now where they are barely tolerated.
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
Subject: /T/T/T/ Tai and Lack of Fraud
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 17:57:54 GMT

Mike_Steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:

> However, that is not what Tai is claiming.  He said that minorities can't do
> as well on those tests as caucasions, because of (among other things)
genetics.

I've never explicitly stated race as a limiting factor.  Rather, the
social cultures may cause in test score differences.

---------
Scott Tai
From: phil%miracle@merk.com (Phil Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: How to join?
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 92 21:11:12 EST
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com writes:
>In article <1992Apr6.190257.19167@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, jlc5f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Jean L. Cooper) writes...
>>Also, as far as I know, the 1-800-66MENSA number is still
>>functioning.  If you want to be sure of getting an answer,
>>just call 718-934-3700.
>
>I called the 800 number shortly after the group started.  I didn't receive
>anything until last Friday, so I guess they check for messages only
>sporadically now.  They should monitor the line better or discontinue it.

Thanks.  I'll bring that to the attention of the higher-ups.  I think that
most of the information that they send you is included in the FAQ posting
anyway.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Hill                     | "All you people in TV land,           |
| Miracle Computer Consultants  |   I will wake up your empty shells.   |
| Email: phil%miracle@merk.com  |  Peak time viewing blown in a flash,  |
|  -or-  phil.hill@channel1.com |   as I burn into your memory cells.   |
| FAX:   (508)875-3297          |  'cause I'm alive." - Peter Gabriel   |
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Fermat's flunkeys (was Re: A Real Challenge)
Date: 10 Apr 92 04:48:34 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Ric Werme writes about "Re: Fermat's flunkeys (was Re: A Real Challenge)" to
All  [09 Apr 92 17:41]

RW>  In article <1992Apr9.071904.22693@ncsu.edu> cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER
J DCOSTA) writes: 

>I do not, for a second, accept the argument that Fermat's theorem is 
>something as commonplace as the wind, as some have made it out to be. 
>It's an even bet that many netters here haven't heard of it. There were
>more than enough postings on the subject to testify to that.  What I
>suspect is that it has recently been introduced into the undergraduate
>math curriculum of some Universities, which is why so many prunes around
>here are so keen to show off their newly acquired knowledge.

 >Well, it so happens that it *WASN'T* around when I took math, or number
>theory. Furthermore, only last year, (about 8 months ago, to be precise)
>I had a long and interesting discussion with a Faculty member
>(CS, not Math) about Fermat and he wasn't any the wiser.

RW>  I guess it must be my age, but I would have thought that any 
RW> faculty member worth an F would be familiar with FLT. 

RW> I've known about FLT for so long I haven't bother to remember 
RW> what it is or where I first read about it. (After trying my hand 
RW> a solving a few unsolved problems, I decided it's much more rewarding 
RW> to work on problems I can solve. Then again, with enigmatic notes 
RW> about having proven it, it is more tempting to work on than most!) 

FWIW, I first was exposed to FLT (gad, I hate TLAs!) in high school, about 32-35
years ago.

RW>  Hey Michael, you don't suppose there are people unfamilar with 
RW> the various sets of three laws (e.g. Kepler, Thermo, Robotics)

A body in motion remains in a closed system unchanged unless it conflicts with
the first law.
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
From: phil%miracle@merk.com (Phil Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: The purpose of this newsgroup (was Re: TIME TRAVEL)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 92 23:00:28 EST
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes:
>phz@cadence.com (Pete Zakel) writes:
>
> PZ> phil%miracle@merk.com (Phil Hill) writes:
>     >(well... ignore unless I have a real juicy flame to
>     >attack them back with,
>     > it's occassionally fun to have a good argument...
>     > Is this the right place
>     > for an argument? :-))
>
> PZ> No, this newsgroup is for abuse -- arguments are the next
> PZ> newsgroup down the ha... No, on second thought, that's abuse, too.
>
> Maybe we should send Scott Tai and gmc to Being Hit on the Head lessons!

I'd prefer it if we just drop the 16T weight on their heads.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Hill                     | "All you people in TV land,           |
| Miracle Computer Consultants  |   I will wake up your empty shells.   |
| Email: phil%miracle@merk.com  |  Peak time viewing blown in a flash,  |
|  -or-  phil.hill@channel1.com |   as I burn into your memory cells.   |
| FAX:   (508)875-3297          |  'cause I'm alive." - Peter Gabriel   |
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller)
Subject: Re: Issac Asimov
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 19:09:00 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <2169.29E58EF1@kennel.FIDONET.ORG> Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner) writes:
>
>Dave Aronson writes about "Issac Asimov" to All  [09 Apr 92 23:20]
>
> > high-IQ people can be
> > just as stupid as low-IQ people--much more stupid, in
> > fact, because they think they are bright.  They tend to
> > be mind-proud, veiw themselves as a persecuted minority,
> > and are, in general, unbearable.
> >
> > The worst thing of all is that they are forever trying to
> > challenge each other, and I was a particular target.  The
> > young kids at Mensa were forever trying to shoot the old
> > man down, and I didn't want to play the game.  Eventually,
> > I simply resigned.
>
> MS> The quote [ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith)] so graciously
> MS> provided was about the early days of Mensa when we did 
> MS> have some members who were as Asimov described.
>
>DA>   And we don't any more??? Sure we do. I bet you've even met 
>DA> some. But  thankfully, they are a small minority, far fewer, 
>DA> at least in  percentage, now than they were then
>
>Sure we do, but as you said, they are a small minority, whereas when Asimov
>was first a member, there were lots more of them.  They either matured, got
>left behind as everyone else matured (and more mature people joined), to the
>point now where they are barely tolerated.
> 

Hmmm, sometimes we all behave this way.  Anyway I like to have
a few pompous plonkers around, it's fun to take the piss out of
them.  And vice versa...


Xref: sparky rec.org.mensa:2983 alt.atheism:8257
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Brainwashing (was Re: IQ and religious belief)
Date: 11 Apr 92 00:50:15 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <22905@goofy.Apple.COM> ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:
>Anyone who has had an argument chain with Jarek knows that it's nearly
>a full time job trying to follow his logical twists and constant
>references to old emails, Jarek FAQ lists, hidden meanings in sub titles
>and all kinds of rat nests.
>
>I personally believe that if someone has a clear idea, he or she is
>able to present it clearly. Otherwise they are just trying to cover
>any possible gaps in their though.

I have had difficulties communicating with Jarek, but
I think this last comment is probably going too far.
As a counterexample, I have a very clear idea of what my
first priority is in choosing what to do with my time,
but I have found no way of clearly expressing it.
There just don't seem to be words.
From: mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Who's in charge here?
Date: 14 Apr 92 02:19:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: gn.1992Apr14.021904.11800
Distribution: na
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Apr13.233422.778@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> jec28605@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Deacon Blue) writes:
>
>Sorry, friend, we've been sorely deluded.  This isn't the REAL rec.org.mensa..
>It's alt.cascade.
>
>Help me stop this menace to bandwidth!  (Whatever bandwidth is.....)
>
>Send me $20.  or candy.  I have a horrible physical deformity involving power 
>tools and other sordid tales, I am insane, and I NEED candy!!!!!!

Hi, Jim!  Are we going to the AG?

Ooops....looks like *I'm* wasting bandwidth now, too.  *sighs*

-- 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
|   John Mechalas      |   Send all fan mail to: mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu   |
|   Purdue University  |   Send all hate mail to: someone else                |
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: eachus@Dr_No.mitre.org (Robert I. Eachus)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: A REAL CHALLENGE: Fermat's last theorem..
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:05:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: Dr_No.EACHUS.92Apr15120505
	<keroche.703176202@unix1.tcd.ie>
Organization: The Mitre Corp., Bedford, MA.

In article <keroche.703176202@unix1.tcd.ie> keroche@unix1.tcd.ie (Faust II) writes:

  > In <1992Apr10.175442.1674@fx.com> raphael@fx.com (Glen Raphael) writes:
  > >cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA) writes:
  > >>While we're talking puzzles, Here's some really challenging stuff
  > >>for you to figure out..

  > >>(TO the best of my knowledge) Fermat, one of the great mathematicians
  > >>in history, discovered the following theorem: (the '3' is a cube sign)
  > >>--------------------------------------------------------------------
  > >> 3      3                    3 
  > >>a   +  b    can NEVER equal c 
  > >>where a,b, and c are non - equal, non - zero integers.
  > >>--------------------------------------------------------------------

  > It was 'a to the n' as far as I know.  

  > >>There was a little note added to the theorem:

  > >>" and I've found a really neat way of proving this "
  > >>or at least, something to that effect.
  > >[...]

   >Yeah; I spent a few weeks on it back in high school. Actually, I proved it.
   >The proof *is* elegant, but a bit on the long side. I'll see if I have time
   >to type it in later...

   Don't do that ! Copyright it, and get a noble prize before
   you send it in. (assuming you're right)

   (Whew, don't you hate deep nesting!)

   Anyway, don't bother with the proof for cubes, that has been known
for several hundred years.  Last I heard the theorem had been proved
for all n less than 150,000 or so.

--

					Robert I. Eachus

with STANDARD_DISCLAIMER;
use  STANDARD_DISCLAIMER;
function MESSAGE (TEXT: in CLEVER_IDEAS) return BETTER_IDEAS is...
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Who's in charge here?
Date: 15 Apr 92 05:03:25 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Dave Aronson writes about "Who's in charge here?" to All  [14 Apr 92 19:53]

DA> Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG writes to Phil Hill: 

 MS> if you really want someone to take charge, let Dave Aronson do it;
 MS> he's got the experience--he's the HFMIC of the Fidonet Mensa echo,

DA>  HFMIC? High-Falutin' Mucketymuck In Charge? 

Whoops! My dyslexia got in the way agin.  HMFIC is what I had meant.
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: phz@cadence.com (Pete Zakel)
Subject: Re: A REAL CHALLENGE: Fermat's last theorem..
Organization: Cadence Design Systems
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 01:22:25 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.020038.21270@ncsu.edu> cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA) writes:
>
>While we're talking puzzles, Here's some really challenging stuff
>for you to figure out..
>
>(TO the best of my knowledge) Fermat, one of the great mathematicians
>in history, discovered the following theorem: (the '3' is a cube sign)
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
> 3      3                    3 
>a   +  b    can NEVER equal c 
>
>where a,b, and c are non - equal, non - zero integers.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>There was a little note added to the theorem:
>
>" and I've found a really neat way of proving this "
>or at least, something to that effect.

Actually, your statement of the problem is incomplete.

Fermat's last theorem is actually that for n > 2,

 n     n                   n
a   + b   can never equal c


This has in fact been proven for specific cases (I believe for values of
n from 3 through 10), but never for the general case, although I recall that
someone recently claimed he had solved it and that at least one mathematician
who had cursorily reviewed his work had said the proof looked good -- but still
needed to be tested.

That's the last I've heard of it.  Anyone know any more?

-Pete Zakel
 (phz@cadence.com or ..!uunet!cadence!phz)

God is not dead!  He's alive and autographing bibles at Cody's
Xref: sparky rec.org.mensa:2971 alt.atheism:8252 sci.bio:1747
From: bhoughto@hopi.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,alt.atheism,sci.bio
Subject: Re: Evolving eyes (Re: Bombardier Beetles)
Date: 1 Apr 92 19:49:53 GMT
Organization: Intel Corp, Chandler, AZ

In article <1992Mar31.211404.12936@Cadence.COM> phz@cadence.com (Pete Zakel) writes:
-In article <10057@inews.intel.com> bhoughto@hopi.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) writes:
->Bilateral symmetry is more likely a result of the
->development of bilateral ocules than the other way around.
->And precious little on an internal level occurs in pairs.
->Kidneys do; nothing else does.
-
-	lungs (and associated pathways)
-	brain (not exactly two brains -- but there are left and right lobes)
-	testes (and associated pathways)
-	ovaries (and associated pathways)
-	adenoids
-	tonsils

Every single one of these (and probably kidneys as well)
followed the development of sight, which I still maintain
is more likely to have been the source of bilateral
symmetry, rather than a consequence of it.

				--Blair
				  "It takes two hands to
				   type, but no eyes..."
From: Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Who's in charge here?
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1992 00:06:38 -0500

I wrote:

 DA> If memory serves, he is the moderator (not in the "censor" sense
 DA> of moderated newsgroups, but more like the "guy in charge")

phil%miracle@merk.com (Phil Hill) replies:

 PH> I am _NOT_ in charge here (I'll leave that job to Al Haig :->).
 PH> Nor is Ed Bertch, nor is ANYONE.

Then is there nobody "empowered" to speak on behalf of the newsgroup itself?
Organization: Youngstown State University
Date: Monday, 6 Apr 1992 08:18:10 EDT
From: <00123646@ysub.ysu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Isaac Asimov

If anyone has any information on last night's death of Isaac Asimov, would you
kindly pass it on to me?  I am also checking rec.org.sca, and will pass on
anything I find there.

David E. Sanders  (1057504)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: jim@uvmark.uucp (Jim Todhunter)
Subject: Re: Rebuttal
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 92 02:56:50 GMT
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <07Apr92192433@miracle.UUCP> phil%miracle@merk.com (Phil Hill) writes:
>alopez-o@neumann.waterloo.edu (Alex Lopez-Ortiz) writes:
> [ ... text deleted ... ]
>>
>>Here is  an outline
>>
>>
>>-Intelligent requirements for Mensa are essentially the same as athletic
>>requirements for sport teams.
>>
>>-Examples of when and where people with higher IQ may prefer to talk with 
>>other mensas (same as Magic Johnson prefering to play a one on one with
>>Larry Bird than with me!)
>>
>>-Intelligence Bashing.- Previous articles give extensive testimony towards
>>people being uspet with intelligence.
>>
>
>I'll consider a secion for Mensa anti-bashing in the FAQ.  But I have
>reservations about that.  I don't like to go on the defense when there isn't
>an definite offence present.  And it doesn't look good if all you read is
>the FAQ.

I have to second Phil's reservations.  The people reading the FAQ posts
will usually be individuals with little familiarity with Mensa.  There
can be many pitfalls in preemptively addressing some of the attacks
seen in this newsgroup.  Two that come to mind are:

   1 - A poor choice of words can create a target.  A look at the first
       two items on the proposed outline provides examples of this
       (athletic teams are under competitive presure to win, Mensa is
       not; so...  you compare your relative mental prowess to Magic
       Johnson's basketball skill?).

  2 - By calling attention to non-issues, the FAQ would give weight and
      credibility to the otherwise vacuous attacks we have seen in this
      newsgroup.

Since the FAQ will be a point of reference for the uninitiated, it should
provide useful information in a positive way.  The FAQ should strive to
answer the questions commonly asked in earnest; those questions asked in
the spirit of provoking a response should be ignored.
-- 
 James W. Todhunter, Director, Research & Development
 Vmark Software, Inc., 30 Speen Street, Framingham, MA  01701, USA
 Internet: jim%uvmark@merk.com, UUCP: uunet!merk!uvmark!jim or jim@uvmark.uucp
 Phone: (508) 879-3311, Fax: (508) 879-3332, Telex: 5101011619 VMARKUNIVERS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
Subject: /T/T/T/ Mensa Frauds Exposed - Fraud #1
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 17:59:50 GMT

roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:

> Now, once again, where't the implication?  Use Mensa documents and other
> information about ACTUAL Mensa practices (not the ones YOU've assumed,
> implied, inferred, or fantasized about) to demonstrate your point.

Where is MENSA documentation available?

---------
Scott Tai
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: /T/T/T/T/ mrmrks and beating a dead horse ...
Date: 6 Apr 92 20:19:28 GMT
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory

>In article <1992Apr5.215401.14606@ncsu.edu>, tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott
Tai) writes...
>>Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner) writes:
>>>Are you saying that Mensans have a hatred of certain groups of
people
>>and engages
>>>in terrorist activities against them?

>>No, I was referring to the Ku Klux Klan.  (Do you have a reading
comprehension
>>problem?)

>"We're not discussing the Ku Klux Klan here, we're discussing Mensa."
>(Do you have a reading comprehension problem?)

Apparently you do have a reading comprehension problem, since you seem to 
think the Ku Klux Klan is not being discussed, while it was mentioned in
the previous sentence...

Sheesh!

---------
Scott Tai