HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: exuhag@exu.ericsson.se (James Hague)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: Documenting
Date: 29 Dec 92 16:02:41 GMT
Reply-To: exuhag@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Richardson, TX
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

Take a look at Brodie's _Thinking Forth_ if you can find it, an excellent,
excellent book on Forth style.  Most conventional program layout conventions 
are designed for languages where it is common to stuff a lot of computation 
into a single routine.  In Forth the idea is to have very short definitions,
ideally not more than 7 words (according to Brodie's ideals, anyway).  With 
routines that short, it is actually easier to comprehend if the entire 
definition is on a single line.   If you approach Forth with a C attitude, 
the result is not very pretty.

The exception, IMO is when it comes to code words.  I am used to
seeing assembly language programs written with one instruction per
line.  Code words also tend to be longer than their equivalent Forth
definition, so there is too much information to lump together.  Plus
I still have a hard time with postfix assemblers, but that's because
I haven't used them enough...

--
James Hague   
exuhag@exu.ericsson.se
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Forth for Amiga
From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Date: 2 Jan 93 12:02:09 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

Category 7,  Topic 3
Message 80        Fri Jan 01, 1993
G.CHIU2                      at 13:45 EST
 
I would like to open several windows, and have a task look after each one.  Is
it possible to do this in JForth V2?  I have seen  'C' code examples that use
createTask(), but I don't think that this has been implemented yet in JForth (
it is part of Amiga.lib).
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Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: John_Somerville@mindlink.bc.ca (John Somerville)
Subject: RE: Forth Developer's Guide
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 05:20:14 GMT

I was interested in UniForth some time ago. For some reason I could not find
their address, and chose to use LMI. What do you like about UniForth?

regards john

--
john somerville B.C. Hydro
affiliations FIG Forth Interest Group
From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Graphics
Date: 25 Dec 92 10:08:42 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

Category 3,  Topic 15
Message 100       Thu Dec 10, 1992
ELLIOTT.C                    at 14:10 EST
 
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 Date: 12-01-92 (19:21)
   To: MARCEL HENDRIX
 From: PAUL GUIJT
 Subj: GRAPHICS

  On 11-15-92 MARCEL HENDRIX wrote to MIKE HAAS...

  MHe>   (*) The slowness is due to the fact that I use GOSCRIPT to
        ...
  MHe>   memory (using very dirty tricks).  What's clearly needed
 is a fast Display Postscript program. Any volunteers :-)

  First of all, GoScript does include a driver to display
  PostScript-files on a VGA screen. I can't say I'm thrilled about
  it, but it does. Secondly I've heard about a PostSript-2
  standard that includes (better) coloring and rules for display
  on a VDU. Some new video adapters are said to feature this
  standard, oddly all of them featuring expensiveness.. Forth
  seems to me _the_ language to relatively easily develop a driver
  for this new standard. But I'm not even close to an expert ;).

  Btw, do you know what's wrong with HCC Alkmaar? And finally, the
  sysop of Hotline BBS in Amsterdam, 020-6893869 is arranging to
  join the RIME-Net Forth conference.

  Paul


 ... OFFLINE 1.39 * FidoNet 2:500/040 - Telefoon 020-6476637
 .
 ---
  * O.L.E.F. BBS.  London UK. +44-81-882-9808
  * PostLink(tm) v1.01  OLEF (#181) : RelayNet(tm) Hub


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From: bs764@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Fred H Olson)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: New Forth book name  FORTH: ....
Date: 25 Dec 1992 14:43:18 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Regarding Dick Miller's assertion that _Forth: the New Model_ is
'uncomfortably close to the preexisting title, "FORTH: A TEXT AND
REFERENCE" , I disagree.  I'm not a lawyer but to argue that one
word in common or that word and a colon make them close seems
untenable.  Besides what is the title of Kelly and Spies's
1986 which BTW features Miller's version of Forth?  On my copy
the cover has " FORTH: ...." .  The title page has "FORTH ..."
(no puntuation). and the Library of Congress Cataloging-in-Publication 
Data has "FORTH, ..." (a comma).

BTW where is Mahlon Kelly these days? Surely he does read Forthnet;
as I recall from xCFB days it wasn't in his nature to be a lurker.

Fred fred%jwh@vx.cis.umn.edu or fholson@uci.com (backup)
-- 
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: nolan@tssi.com (Michael Nolan)
Subject: Re: Internet <--> Genie Email
Reply-To: nolan@tssi.com
Organization: Tailored Software Services, Inc.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 20:51:56 GMT

bs764@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Fred H Olson) writes:
>As I understand it, from Internet one sends mail to 
><user>@geis.genie.com      My one attempt so far has failed.
>Apparently the Genie user must subscribe to the additional
>fee gateway service.  Does mail to Genie users without the
>additional subscription  really get discarded without notice
>to either the sender or the intended receiver as my test
>seemed to indicate?  BTW how much additional does it cost?

Not quite, you send it to <user>@genie.geis.com.  For example, I am
MIKE.NOLAN@GEnie.geis.com.

All of the tests I have tried have produced a bounce message when the message
cannot be delivered on GEnie.  A _cryptic_ bounce message, but better than
nothing.  (The GEnie member is not notified of the attempt.)

There have been some occasional problems with routing to or from GEnie's
Internet forwarder, and GEnie's internal e-mail system has a 35 character 
address limit which applies to Internet mail as well.  (This is being worked 
on, but no estimate of when this will be changed has been announced.)

The cost structure for GEnie members in the USA is as follows:
     A one-time $2 signup fee.
     Each message sent or received is 30 cents per 5K of characters, including
     headers, or fraction thereof.  (ie, a 1K message costs 30 cents, an 8K 
     message costs 60 cents, etc.)

The Internet Gateway is also available to GEnie members in Canada, but
the fees are different and are in Canadian dollars. ($3.00 and 40 cents)

According to GEnie administration, the Internet Gateway is still in 'open
beta test', and the cost structure given above is subject to revision.
---
Mike Nolan
MIKE.NOLAN@GEnie.geis.com
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: mikc@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mike Coughlin)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: Forth Developer's Guide
Date: 30 Dec 1992 17:01:00 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In article <30094.smithn@orvb.saic.com> smithn@orvb.saic.com (Norman E. Smith, CDP) writes:
>I suggest you pick up a copy of the Uniforth Professional package.
>The manual is one of the best 'Forth Books' have run across
>with good descriptions of the various threading techniques.
>I picked up a copy a couple of weeks ago when Arne Henden was
>selling it for $40 due to moving. He can be reached at
>ahenden@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu.
>
     I have a copy of the shareware version of Uniforth and I like it
and would recommend it to beginners. But is the professional package
still for sale, or was it a closeout that is no longer available? It
would be a shame if a good Forth book became unavailable because of
lack of interest. Uniforth is an old product that never seemed to be
popular enough. If its manual is a good description of the inner workings
of Forth, then there should be an effort to keep it in print.

-- 
   Michael Coughlin             mikc@gnu.ai.mit.edu  
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Back Burner announcements
Date: 25 Dec 92 10:09:05 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

Category 19,  Topic 1
Message 4         Sat Dec 05, 1992
B.RODRIGUEZ2 [Brad]          at 09:11 EST
 
Russ, Aladdin won't allow multiple replies at the same time to the same topic,
which is why so many messages include several "unrelated" subjects.  Also,
uploads to the FIG library are not cross-posted to the Forthnet, so
discussions with folks on the Internet may have to include code or lengthy
text.  Sorry.

Brad Rodriguez
 B.RODRIGUEZ2 on GEnie   |   bradford@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca
 So many projects....so little time.

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Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: jvn@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Julian V. Noble)
Subject: Re: Implementing Algolic algorithms in Forth ?
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 20:49:09 GMT

jacobsen@itexjct.jct.ac.il  writes:
> May the Forth wizards help me with that:
> 
>  I want to implement som 'Algolic languages' algorithms. Let's take
>  the Quick Sort algorithm as an example. In that algorithm the programmer
>  must call the sort function (word, procedure etc.) recursivly, with 
>  sub-array of the array it got as input. 
>  As far as I know, recursion in Forth mean: the ablity of word to use 
>  itself. It is working in those cases when the word use only the stack,
>  like a recursive definition of factorial. How may I write a definition
>  like the quick sort one, in Forth. 
>  
>        Joel
Dear Joel,

The short answer is "Get a copy of Scientific FORTH by J.V. Noble (that is,
my humble self) and read the chapter on recursive programming." The book
is available (with program diskette) for $49.95 + s/h from
	Mechum Banks Publishing
	P.O. Box 335
	Ivy, Virginia 22945
	USA

The long answer is that you must arrange for the definition that calls
itself to use a stack to hold its arguments. In quicksort, e.g., the
arguments are pointers to the list of items to be sorted. The nice thing
about recursive sorting algorithms is that the stack grows only as 
LOG2(N), where N is the number of items in the list. Thus you don't have
to worry (much) about stack overflow.

Finally, I am certain that sorting programs have been written (and pub-
lished!) in Forth, say in Journal of Forth Application and Research or
Forth Dimensions, or even old Dr. Dobbs's (in the days when they used
to publish articles on Forth).

Best of luck.   Julian V. Noble
From: bevan@cs.man.ac.uk (Stephen J Bevan)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: Documenting
Date: 2 Jan 93 17:42:49 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester
In-reply-to: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us's message of 2 Jan 93 12:02:06 GMT

In article <4226.UUL1.3#5129@willett.pgh.pa.us> ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) writes:

    Every vendor should provide a spiffy editor built with and interacting with
    Forth, regardless of screens or files.

The one thing I don't want when I use a compiler is to have to use a
new editor.  This particular brain-dead idea seems rampant in the PC
area, were a compiler often comes with its own editor.  Unless your
target market is a small niche system where there might not even be
and editor, there is no excuse for foistering a particular editor on
users.  Note I'm aware you can often still run the compiler without
the integrated editor, but you lose all the "nice" features.  For the
sake of a bit more effort these could be made available whatever
editor is being used (see below).


    It can be more useful than calling an external editor from Forth
    via the operating system.  When it is built in, you can do single
    definition reloads, word by word execution, 
    useful interaction with a Forth terminal program, have multiple copies
    executing at a time, and all usually with much less memory, time, and
    operating system overhead.

An IMHO more useful method is to run the compiler from within the
editor or better yet have them on a peer basis with communication
between them done using a specified protocol (REXX and TCL are often
used for this purpose).  As to operating system overhead: most of the
time I've got more MIPS and Mb than I know what to do with.  I don't
mind "wasting" some of them if it saves me time.  After all, averaged
out, my time is worth more than the computer.

bevan
From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Experimental Ideas
Date: 25 Dec 92 10:08:39 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

Category 3,  Topic 5
Message 87        Sun Dec 13, 1992
ELLIOTT.C                    at 20:44 EST
 
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   To: ALL
 From: MARCEL HENDRIX
 Subj: STOIC?

 dw> + At EuroForth '92 Christophe Lavarenne (`FreeForth') proposed to
 dw> + get rid of the Forth interpreter altogether and use a "compile
 dw> + buffer" (my interpretation). The idea, which has also been
 dw> + proposed by Mitch Bradley and John Hayes (among others), is to
 dw> + compile each line typed by the user into a nameless colon
 dw> + definition, execute that code and forget it again.

 dw> It is even worse than that.  What if the user uses CREATE DOES>
 dw> in the nameless colon definition?  Better not forget that code!

 Ok, in practice this will mean you can do more than the
 interpreter allows, but still not everything. I'd say the code is
 temporary by definition, so what you want with DOES> is clearly
 illegal (in that it can't work :)

 dw> If that code also does ALLOT or HERE manipulation, what does
 dw> "forgetting" it mean?

 The final result must be the same as typing  5 ALLOT  or  CREATE
 foo 3 , that is, the change is ``permanent''. It has to be.  Of
 course the compiled (temporary) code cannot reside at HERE , if
 that is what you meant. That would interfere with about anything.

 dw> Once you do that, are you really doing FORTH anymore, or is it
 dw> something else?  It seems to me that the simplicity of the top
 dw> level comes by avoiding all that hairy stuff.

 To do it well, a string stack (not known and not a number  foo :
 1+ ; ) or changed syntax ( S" foo" : 1+ ; ) is needed.  As people
 have mentioned already, it then starts to resemble STOIC (don't
 know it, but looks interesting). The version with the S" may be
 possible with little internal change and very little side
 effects, but it sure gives a different look to the source code.

 Marcel Hendrix,
 Dutch Forth Workshop

 NET/Mail : FS FORTH Systeme BBS West Germany ++49 7667 556
 ---
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From: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Forth books
Date: 24 Dec 1992 16:25:10 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Again, Jack Woehr prefers to take a dig and miss the point.  He says:
> In <9212191829.AA15097@im4> dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller)
>   writes:
> 
> >Jaxfanz and others have noted it.  I would urge you to notify your lawyers 
> >that their newly-proposed title for your book is uncomfortably close to the 
> >preexisting title, "FORTH: A TEXT AND REFERENCE".  That is, unless you and 
> >its authors/publisher have some agreement on why your book is a follow-on 
> >to theirs, or unless you hope to cash in by construing an imagined linkage 
> >of that sort.  
> 
>         Back in the 1940's, Warner Bros., makers of "Casablanca", threatened
> to sue the Marx Bros. for making a film called "A Night in Casablanca".
> 
>         Groucho Marx fired back a letter threatening to sue Warner Bros.
> for calling themselves "brothers", since the Marx Bros. were brothers first.
 
Jack, you chose to cut out my further words from that message:
Whether or not your Forth book is in the same class as this excellent one, 
I don't expect that it will be in the same series.  If this is correct, 
please honor prior Forth authors by considering some different and more 
original style than the "FORTH:" opening word for your book's title.  
 
THAT's the point, to honor the prior Forth authors.  Not to take advantage, 
while claiming to be technically correct.  Not to be cute.  Not to be 
nasty.  Try it, you'll like it!
 
Merry Christmas, Jack.
--Dick Miller
 
A. Richard & Jill A. Miller            | Miller Microcomputer Services |
InterNet: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu       | 61 Lake Shore Road            |
Voice: 508/653-6136, 9am-9pm EasternTZ | Natick, MA 01760-2099, USA    |
MMSFORTH: The cure for the common code.| 42 17 N, 71 21 W, Earth, Sol  |
From: jkh@whisker.lotus.ie (Jordan K. Hubbard)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: forth for the Acorn Archimedes?
Date: 30 Dec 92 03:57:47 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: Lotus Development Ireland

Subject says it all:  Anyone heard of one for this beast?

				Jordan
--
Jordan Hubbard		Lotus Development Ireland	jkh@whisker.lotus.ie
I DO NOT SPEAK FOR LOTUS - IT HAS PLENTY OF LAWYERS TO DO THAT FOR IT ALREADY
From: jimlynch@netcom.com (Jim Lynch)
Subject: Re: Forth Developer's Guide
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 12:22:17 GMT

As an alternative, you could hang with someone like Bill Raggsdale for awhile...
From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Help for F-PC and TCOM
Date: 29 Dec 92 11:46:15 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

Category 7,  Topic 35
Message 28        Mon Dec 28, 1992
ELLIOTT.C                    at 12:24 EST
 
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 Date: 12-06-92 (12:42)
   To: ALL
 From: RICHARD WEIR
 Subj: SOURCE CODE FOR  +CODE

 I recently downloaded some graphics source code for F-PC,  and
 several places it uses the word +code  in the middle  of a
 "code" compile. Could someone give the source code for this
 word, as my version (3.53) of F-PC does not have it.
      thanks
       Richard W.

 NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for
 Forth! ---
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 CRS Premium Bulletin Board -
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 Date: 12-05-92 (22:26)
   To: ALL
 From: RICHARD WEIR
 Subj: CODE FOR "+CODE"

 I have downloaded some graphics routines for F-PC.  They use an
 assembler word that I don't have.  The word is +code.  it appears
 to make a label inside a compiling word.  Substituting LABEL
 crashes the system.   Thanks for the help.

 NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for
 Forth! ---
  * The GrapeVine/Ferret Face BBS * NLR,ARK * 501-753-8121 DS *
  * PostLink(tm) v1.04  GRAPEVINE (#318) : RelayNet(tm) Hub

 CRS Premium Bulletin Board -
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 Date: 12-16-92 (07:17)
   To: ALL
 From: RON WENSLEY
 Subj: F-PC STRINGS

 I am currently using F-PC v3.55. I would like to find string
 handlers that are like BASIC's LEN$, MID$, RIGHT$, and LEFT$. If
 anyone has any words for these or knows were I can get them let
 me know via this BBS. Thanks
         Ron Wensley

 NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for
 Forth! ---
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Selecting a Public Domain Kernel
Date: 25 Dec 92 10:08:34 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

Category 1,  Topic 7
Message 184       Sat Dec 12, 1992
B.RODRIGUEZ2 [Brad]          at 18:07 EST
 
> I'm searching for a PD Forth for a DEC rainbow under MS-DOS (128K)

In 128K you should be able to run F83 or Pygmy Forth.  Both are available for
$6 each from the Forth Interest Group, P.O. Box 2154, Oakland, CA 94621.  I'm
sure that both are also available by FTP, but don't ask me where.

Brad Rodriguez
 B.RODRIGUEZ2 on GEnie   |   bradford@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca
 So many projects....so little time.

-----
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