From: lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor)
Subject: Re: Hmmm...
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 23:20:17 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.171529.39632@uvmark.uucp> davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks) writes:
>Never said it wasn't.  It is a fact of life that the NFC's best team has
>dominated the AFC's best team in the game that counted.  However, how can
>we consider this "domination" Ed.  In your other posts, you basically stated
>that head-to-head matchups don't matter, but overall records do.  
Nope, don't distort what I say. I said head-to-head matchups IN THE REGULAR
SEASON don't matter, because it's only counted as 1 of 16.

The playoffs is a different story. If we have Buffalo beating SF in the 
do-or-die, all-chips-on-the-table setting, then you have no argument from me.

>One of the available factors.  They were good enough to get there, SF was not.
But you use "different competition" against SF's regular season performance,
but the same thing for Buffalo's SB berth. What a hypocrite!

>But that isn't the sole criteria.  In football, why are so many people crying
>for a playoff.  Because of things like the FSU issue.  
There are people crying for a playoff for the champion. There aren't people
crying for a playoff for who's #2, #3, #4 ..... And how do we determine
the #2 team in the playoff? by a regular season head-to-head matchup?
Then Detroit must be the 2nd best team in the league last season.

>Oh no, based on the EdLorian logic scheme, whenever one goes into using
>vulgarities, they are obviously losing.  
Oh, is that an admission that you have been losing all your arguments
in the past? BTW, I don't consider "ass" vulgarities. Maybe you are so
innocent that you consider "ass" is while "f***" isn't.

>Ed, such language...  Your idea
>of "Common Wisdom" gets lots of criticism all the time now.  
Yes, then the league policy should get lots of criticism too. Why do 
you still follow the NFL?

>(Sounds like what you used to call the "strawman" argument...)
>Not really.  As in all thing, exceptions do occur.  Phoenix beat SF, another
>exception.  
Well, so how do you know that the Bills beating the 49ers wasn't an exception?

>However, since the two teams did not face the same
>teams in the same circumstances, looking solely at their apparant records
>does not solve anything.  Neither does looking solely at their head-to-head
>matchups.  We can determine consistency and overall strength by their records.
>We can determine team/team comparisons by head-to-head.  
Yes, so the Raiders must be better than the Bills, right? 

>So,when comparing
>two teams with relatively equal records (Bills - 14-5, SF 15-3), the thing 
>you look at next is head-to-head records.  
That's only your definition of "relatively equal records". In football's
small # of games, I don't consider 14-5 and 15-3 as relatively equal
records. Well, the league doesn't, Vegas and the betting public don't, 
the college polls don't.

And there is no head-to-head between SF and Buffalo in the post-season as 
your evidence.

>If Buffalo wins, they will be
>15-5, while the 49ers would have been 15-3.  Two fewer losses, but were they
>the better team??? Well, they lost AT HOME to the Bills, they weren't even
>good enough to go to the SuperBowl 'cuz they lost AT HOME to the Cowboys, and
>the Bills would have beaten the Cowboys (again, if it happens).  Of course, 
>Ed will still say that they weren't as good because they didn't have a better
>record.
Well, then you based your argument on an assumption: the Bills beat the 
Cowboys.  On 1/20/93, your premise is not true.

>>You say one head-to-head regular season game. I say the entire season.
>>Just which one is more widely accepted?
>Well, to the people I have seen, the head-to-head game...
Well, then you haven't seen enough people. Maybe the people in
your set only consists of yourself. The league, the betting people, the
people who believe in polls, and the voters must not be people then.

-- 
                                          Edward Lor
                                          lor@cbnewsk.att.com