From: pmk@prometheus.UUCP (Paul M. Koloc)
Newsgroups: sci.physics
Subject: Re: Religion & Physics Don't Mix -- A discontinuity - Saga
Date: 9 Nov 92 13:24:38 GMT
Reply-To: pmk@prometheus.UUCP (Paul M. Koloc)
Organization: Prometheus II, Ltd.

In article <1dc3koINN7og@chnews.intel.com> bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) writes:
>In article <1992Nov3.183520.27343@galileo.physics.arizona.edu> lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat) writes:
>>crb7q@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Cameron Randale Bass) writes:
>>> 
>>>       Why do certain people have such difficulty with the proposition
>>>       that there are domains which 'science' and 'logic' can never reach?

>Because to admit they exist is to open oneself to arguments
>based on imagination and improbability.  If science is to
>be limited by theologians then the theologians have leave
>to create any number of scenarios for deities.

I say hoorah for imagination and probability.  Science isn't 
limited by theologians, but rather by our paucity of imagination 
to see things in simpler and in far reaching application.  
Theologians might well prod us to face the limitations or 
incompleteness of our science (knowledge of things), and therefore 
to work on a larger set of possible schemes that may (or may not) 
extend our science to things yet not understood or seen.  

In fact if I didn't know better, I would almost suspect there
is a bit of Theophobia in our ranks.  One problem for me is
the conservation laws and how they are resolved across the
discontinuity of the Big Bang.  

Reality exists and we hypothesize its structures and functions. 
Through lots of thought and interaction we sometimes find that
some hypotheses are better than others.  But we all know that
none are "truth".  To believe that science has "truth" is to
lack imagination.  I have not heard of a physics of religion,
on the other hand.  Maybe "it's time for a change". So let us
do a bit of Grand Reality (physics and religion) Hypothesizing. 

Let me describe (for the sake of example) three realms that form 
components of a Grand Reality.  There exists information in 
each of these.  In the first (one space) the information
is infinite and composes a single object.  A single time frame
here has infinite extent so that present time occupies all
of time simultaneously.  We name realm the Grand One Dimension 
(GOD).   Science can't probe this Entity since it has no
volume or measure in our 3 space grainy system.  

There is a two space which has an infinite extent and 
information, yet the density is not infinite, (although very
dense relative to us -- say neutron stars).  Here  a multiplicity
of objects exist and although a single time frame is much
longer than in a neutron star, time does pass, there is a past 
and future.  For these information arry objects to get from one 
time frame to the next they also have an information operator 
aspect or function, that is they are in a sense intelligent or 
"living".  WE can name a couple of creature types that reside in 
this realm, namely, the animals and plants that are  "angels and 
souls" or religious intuition, respectively.  Again, science of 
three D matter can't reach, touch or have measure of this none 
volumous stuff.   

Then there is three space and its matter and it works a bit like
two space stuff, except that the objects are very simple operator
information arrays (particles) that handle small fixed amounts 
of information, time frames are very much shorter, and the total 
information of the whole realm is limited.  That is the stuff 
that composes our physical bodies.  

Now 'tis true we can't find this other stuff scientifically,
however, if it exists and has interaction with our 3-D realm
we may be able to see traces at least of such interaction events.  
After all we have our mass spectrometers and conservation laws 
and so we can go after variations.  Here are some targets:
 

                            I. 

The 3space information wasn't here for very long (on a two space
clock) and so at some point it was either created or placed
here from elsewhere.  The second is popular with me since
I kind of think of conservation laws as having at least 
universal application and in this case a Grand Universal 
application.  Consequently, the info (matter - energy - stuff)
that composes our universe (and logic operator laws) came from
a decay of chunk of two space "hyper-stuff (matter)".  
 
                            II.

If humans are really some kind of compound soul/physical body
being, then obviously, the plant-like (can't see its surroundings) 
soul must transform information (energy) from two space and 
into the volume of 3D space occupied by the brain of the human
in order to produce some kind of subtle electrical or chemical 
changes therein and and thereby influence thought or behavior 
(at least over some time).  This of course would release
energy, albeit probably in very, very small amounts.  If the
disturbance was immediately absorbed by brain tissue, it may
not be measureable from outside the brain.  Theoretically it
would increase the mass of the brain, but a "delta m" would be 
absolutely swamped by the biological functionings of the body.  

                          III.

There could be far more powerful interactions than II above
if a soul "matured" to an angel during his lifetime, or if
some angel took a really significant interest in someone and
was willing to "give him a hand - so to speak."  To wit
these effects might generate a significant introduction of
local energy that could be easily observed directly by human
perception as well as a bevy of recording instruments.  

The difficulty here is that not many of us are doing anything
that interesting, so such events may be few and far between,
and may not be reported or certainly not recorded.  There
was a theory that Ball Lightning was "an invisible devil" 
struck by a lightning bolt and then roused to the point he
forgot himself and became visible.  However, by this above
scenario, the lightning would have not had any measureable 
effect whatsoever on a hyperspace being, so that observation
get's chucked.  

                          IV. 

And finally, maybe we can one-dimensionally ram compress 
(accelerate) a chunk of matter to light speed where it will
nearly flatten infinitely thin and then will quantum 
mechanically "jump" to hyperspace.  Sort of an inverse Big 
Bang -- actually a "Dinky Bink".  The evidence would be
the "sudden absence" of all or a significant portion of the 
accelerated energized matter. 

Now there is a practical inventive technology that could
come out of this endeavor.  For example, we might be able
to energize ourselves into hypomatter, and then pop back
out in a controlled and undamaged way but perhaps in 
another galaxy and a far far future time.  Ahh, but I'm 
playing on your love of Dr. Who.   

>I have no problem with religious fiction (I mean, I *love*
>Dr. Who, and that's hardly any better science than is the
>Bible).  However, when the authors of these fictions claim
>that they are not fiction, then they reach into the realm
>of schizophrenia.  

Fiction or not, I'm still disturbed about energy conservation 
over the big bang 3space transition.  Maybe you can fix it up 
for me.  Frankly, it seems silly to me that such a nebulous 
"reality" as this we experience, can be anything but the froth 
on the top of a caldron of really meaty soup (Grand 3-realm 
Universe).  

> ..                                ..   .     it is self-
>defeating to declare voids in knowability.  

Let's call them  -- temporary voids.  Still it won't be
easy developing those Grand Universe detectors.  

>
>				--Blair
>				  "'There!  I've run rings
>				   around you, logically.'
--
                            Well, neither 
                       logic nor semen antics 
                        were ever my forte.  
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