From: clary@iastate.edu (Jeffrey S Clary)
Subject: Re: Sanity arrives to this group! Welcome back Susan!
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 14:50:46 GMT

Perhaps we can get a little clarification from Susan?

In <2213@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:

>In article <brian.703289269@coombs>, brian@coombs.anu.edu.au (Brian) writes:
> cmort@NCoast.ORG (Christopher Morton) writes:
>< >>   Another wommin proves that she either can't read, or that she is
>< >> incapable of distinguishing between being the victim of criminal assault
>< >> and provoking a fight.  If she means what she says (hard to believe)
>< >> then she really is saying that a rape victim shouldn't resist, but 
>< >> instead just don't protect her/his "honour", swallow his/her price
>< >> and let the rape proceed.  Otherwise the victim would be guilty of
>< >> "provoking a fight".

>< >That's EXACTLY what she's saying.  She's already explicitly said that gays and
>< >minorities should "pity" skinheads trying to kill them rather than resist. It's
>< >obviously her point of view that one's mere existence can be a provocation. It
>< >is that sort of assumption which underlies the holocaust and a dozen other
>< >egregious acts of wanton slaughter....
> 
>< 	Did Susan explicitly state that "minorities should "pity" skinheads
>< trying to kill them rather than resist" Christopher or are you assuming 
>< something which she never said?
> 
>< 	I think its the later.  As far as I can tell, Susan has never 
>< suggested that.  What she has suggested is that indeed, people who do
>< attack others because of some imagined prejudice should be pitied, _not_
>< that they shouldn't be resisted.
> 
>< 	If you can't provide a direct quote, as someone has suggested to
>        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>< Dave upon occassion, "put up or shut up" Christopher.
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>In article <susan.702167234@coombs>, susan@coombs.anu.edu.au (Susan McDonald) writes:
>< cmort@NCoast.ORG (Christopher Morton) writes:
>< >2) If somebody just wants to beat you up, "not getting into a fight" is kind
>< >of moot advice.  Or do you think that homosexuals and minorities who are 
>< >attacked somehow bring it on themselves?  Is a homosexual unnecessarily
>< >provoking his assailant by BEING homosexual?  Am I inciting violence by being
>< >Black?  Should I stop being Black to avoid violence...?

>< 	Stop bring in unnecessary complications Chris.  We are talking about
>< a brawl, you know a "fight" where it takes two or more people to tango?
>< Even so, in most of the cases you cite, the person who is being picked on
>< usually has, at a very early stage of the altercation a chance to walk away.
   *******
>< Such bigots should be pitied and ignored, not physically fought against.
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>< All that will do will inflame the situation even worse.
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[NOTE: The *** emphasis is mine, the ^^^^ is C.D.'s.]

Susan, I think what we are trying to figure out is what action you would
advocate in those "unusual" situations where there is no chance to walk
away.  Are you are a hard-core pacifist who would just take a beating or
worse?  That philosophy has been advocated by some pretty famous thinkers,
so I, at least, am not setting you up for ridicule (even if I don't share
your opinion).

As far as fights that can be avoided, I personally agree that walking away
(or running, if necessary) is the way to go.  How about the rest of you
"violent gun-nuts" out there?

>'zat clear enough for you, cobber?
>-- 

>cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
>OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
-- 
**************************************************************************
* It is better to be a live mouse than a dead lion.  * Jeffrey S. Clary  *
* It is better still to be a live lion, and usually  * clary@iastate.edu *
* easier.  -- (Paraphrase from memory of L.L.        *                   *
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns