HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tmenten@boi.hp.com (Tom Menten)
Subject: Re: Illinois and Owyhee rivers
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 16:45:30 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Steve Sedlacek (steve@pepe.aero.org) wrote:
: 	Also, from anyone who has run the 3 rivers to Rome section, what is it
: like?  

"Three Forks to Rome" is the usual run that kayaker's do, I haven't done
Rome to Reservoir, so I can't compare - but the only story I ever hear about
that section (other than it's long and slow) is the "glory hole" at the dam.

The Three Forks trip I did was wonderful, with warm water (unusual in Idaho)
and nice paddling and scenic variety.  It was an overnighter for us (no raft
support, but it wasn't needed.)

I remember the paddling as being 3+ or 4- .  There is at least one possible
portage called "Widowmaker" - we ran it on "extreme right" :-}  The portage
isn't pretty, rafts may have to be lined.  Class 2 rapids lead up to Widowmaker,
so you can't be entirely casual about getting out.

Otherwise, there's a (portageable on the left) 3 or 4 foot ledge drop early 
on day one (maybe within the first 15 minutes, I'm fuzzy on this) and one 
relatively continuous stretch with a descriptive name like "Half Mile Rapids"
(which day?)  

We stumbled on one rattlesnake (who preferred other company and left), found
a paddle (which was fortuitous, since by then I'd broken mine and we had no
breakdown), went skinny dipping, and paddled the last few miles in slow 
current against a headwind (that's typical for Idaho wilderness rivers,
though I think most of the Owyhee is actually in Oregon.)

The shuttle is nontrivial - even finding the put-in is a challenge.  The 
trip has to be timed right, since the flow is generally shortlived.  The trip
needs a permit, and the takeout is at the ranger station.  The river is remote,
in a steep canyon, with no assurance that anyone else will be by soon - but
we saw one raft crew, who we helped to recover gear after an incident, shared
a beer (theirs) and who carried out my broken paddle.

Sorry for the fuzz; maybe Scott will correct it.


Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: john@chinet.chi.il.us (John Mundt)
Subject: Re: Advice on WWOC slalom boat sought
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 23:05:49 GMT

In article <168CBB233.M14661@mwvm.mitre.org> M14661@mwvm.mitre.org writes:
>          I'm looking for boat recommendations (what's good, what isn't)
>as well as any guides on what to expect to pay for used boats, should I
>decide to go that route. 

The "Encore" is a currently very popular boat which handles
well, rolls easily, and is relatively dry.  As for used boats,
the Mad River "ME" was the hot boat, and lots of people are
trading ME's for Encores.  You can't really go wrong with either
one, IMHO, and a used one in decent shape ought to go for under
$500 fully outfitted.

Too bad I sold off my old HD1, or this message would read entirely
differently...   :-)

John Mundt

mundt@casbah.acns.nwu.edu

-- 
---------------------
john@admctr.chi.il.us
John Mundt   Teachers' Aide, Inc.  P.O. Box 1666,  Highland Park, IL
(708) 998-5007 || -432-8860
From: smay@boi.hp.com (Scott Smay)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Illinois and Owyhee rivers
Date: 29 Dec 92 16:24:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: boi.C01481.H4B
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Steve Sedlacek (steve@pepe.aero.org) wrote:
: 	I am looking for more information on the Illinois and Owyhee rivers.
: A group of us (mostly kayakers) are planning to do an early April trip on
: one of these rivers.  Of course, river levels may cancel our plans.
: 
:
My wife and I ran the Illinois two years ago Easter at 1600 cfs. The only 
serious rapid we encountered was Green Wall which I would probably have rated
4+, but a straightforward run. I think we scouted one other drop. Higher water
could change things considerably. Green Wall could have been walked on the left
over large boulders.It was a very beautiful river with an awful shuttle, 
especially when you are driving back to Idaho.
 
: 	Regarding the Owyhee, we are considering doing the "standard"
: Rome to reservoir run.  This sound like an easy run for our group.
: Does anyone have shuttle info (local drivers phone #s, roads to avoid
: highlights of the float?)
: 
: 	Also, from anyone who has run the 3 rivers to Rome section, what is it
: like?  
:

I haven't paddled below Rome, but Three Forks to Rome is a nice paddle. At 2500
cfs, Ledge and Half-Mile were class IV and we walked Widowmaker (tough portage).This was ten years ago after a couple years of paddling, so I might be overstat-
ing the difficulty. Lots of flatwater at the end. Snowpack in the Owyhees is
supposed to be about 140% of normal now, so there is hope (at last) of a real
paddling season down there. Water quality is pretty poor.

cheer,
scott smay 
: 
: -- 
: Steven Sedlacek			sedlacek@aero.org
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: M14661@mwvm.mitre.org
Subject: Advice on WWOC slalom boat sought
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 17:40:19 GMT

I paddle OC-1, and after entering about one WWOC slalom race a year in the
rec. class, I'd like to get more active, and get an OC-1 for slalom racing,
probably in the short class.  This is for fun racing, as opposed to really
serious.  I'm looking for boat recommendations (what's good, what isn't)
as well as any guides on what to expect to pay for used boats, should I
decide to go that route.  Any help would be appreciated.  You can post replies
or mail them to mcgurrin@mitre.org.
 
                                       Mike McGurrin
                                       Vienna, VA
From: rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Whitewater slalom WILL be in the 1996 Olympic Games!
Date: 2 Jan 93 04:01:16 GMT
Organization: Mike Singletary Appreciation Society

Whitewater slalom, the most exciting aquatic event in the entire
Olympics, will return in 1996 as part of the Atlanta games.
Here's the news, relayed from the USOC:

	From: johnr@col.hp.com (John T. Rasper)
	Newsgroups: rec.sport.olympics
	Subject: USOC update - 15-18 Dec1992 (187 lines)
	Date: 21 Dec 92 15:55:32 GMT

	Whitewater to be included in 1996
	     Tennessee governor Ned McWherter announced Tuesday that
	whitewater canoeing will be part of the 1996 Olympic Games program
	and will be competed on the Ocoee River in Tennessee. McWherter
	said he was notified by Billy Payne, who was in Lausanne for the
	IOC Program Commission meeting. For more information, contact Ken
	Renner in the Governor's office at (615) 741-3783, or Craig Bohnert
	with the U.S. Canoe and Kayak Team at (317) 237-5690.

This is fantastic news, and probably signals the permanent inclusion
of whitewater slalom in the games.  Let's hope that downriver wildwater
is next.

Now we can begin speculating on which athletes will be there.  In the
US, I'd guess that Adam Clawson (19 years old at the moment) will make
the squad in C-1; if Lubgill and Hearn want to, they will probably be
able to give it another shot.  (Lugbill showed up at the national
championships early this fall and smoked the field.)  In K-1, Rich Weiss
and Scott Shipley might be back; Eric Giddens, who was a surprise at the
trials, might make the team; and if Eric Jackson can spend another four
years hammering away, he could go to the show.  In K-1W, I'd bet
on Kara Ruppel, but I don't know who else is coming up.  And in C-2,
I'd look for a possible Haller & Haller boat...and will Jacobi
and Strausbaugh defend their gold medal?

---Rsk
From: jstewart@alfred.carleton.ca (John Stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Giardia
Date: 23 Dec 92 16:36:48 GMT
Organization: Carleton University

In <78761@hydra.gatech.EDU> ccsupmt@prism.gatech.EDU (MARY TRAUNER) writes:
>A popular theory, seeming to exonerate humans, is that giardia has been
>around all along - throughout the eons - and is only now beginning to be
>correctly diagnosed.  "Around" appears to be the key word in this theory.
>Giardia may have been around somewhere, but in the Sierras?  In the Rockies?
>Undeniably, there have been reports of giardia in other parts of the world
>since it was discovered in 1681. .......  Only in the late seventies and
>early eighties did we begin to hear repeatedly of unshakable cases of this
>"new disease" among us.  It seems improbable that we were all previously
>either asymptomatic carriers or misdiagnosed.

Considering the millions of people who have emigrated to North America from
all parts of the world over the last couple of hundred years it seems 
extremely doubtful that giardia has appeared here only recently.  Also
consider sanitation -- we take it for granted today that our drinking water
will be entirely free of bacteria and other nasties and that our sewage 
will be treated before it is returned to the environment.  Have you heard
the saying "When problem one is solved, problem two gets a promotion"?
That's what has happended in regards to Giardia, improved sanitation and
medical advances have eliminated so many things that used to be quite 
common that Giardia has been promoted far enough up the list to finally
be noticed.

There is no doubt that you can get giardia from drinking untreated water
in a wilderness area, but in fact the most common occurence of Giardia is 
in young children, especially those that attend
a day care center.  

-- 
John Stewart -- Computing and Communications Services, Carleton University
Internet: jstewart@ccs.carleton.ca or Mr.Canoehead@algonquin.carleton.ca  
"The average middle income family with two parents and children pays $2,945
more in Federal taxes than they would have under the tax policies in place
before the Tories first came to power in 1984."
From: afinch@bu.edu (Andrew Finch)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: WINTER TRAINING
Date: 22 Dec 92 15:43:36 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5


		Good luck with winter training everyone.  
		5x5's for life.

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern)
Subject: Re: Vote for Rowing Newsgroup
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: NCAR/UCAR
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:13:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.233136.8041@ee.rochester.edu>, blodorn@ee.rochester.edu (Keith Blodorn) writes:
> 
> 	I'm posting my vote for this rowing newsgroup now, because I
> won't be around for the next month.  Rowing news is the basic reason
> I even read these groups, and I think the idea of a seperate group
> for rowing is downright groovy, so please count my vote and good luck.

Posted votes DON'T COUNT!

There is a discussion period going on;  this is the time to post that
you want the new group, but it's not binding or anything.  Also, this
discussion is to take place in the newsgroup news.groups, not here.

After the 30-day discussion period, the person who originally proposed
the rowing newsgroup will (probably) hold a vote.  AT THAT TIME, you
can vote, BY E-MAIL ONLY.

Followups are set to news.groups.

-- 
/\    "I'm only a human girl person.  I ain't always perfect."--Rambling Rose
  \_][ <--NCAR Ilana Stern dod#009 r.b. cliff swallow ilana@ncar.ucar.edu    
      \______________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: tmenten@boi.hp.com (Tom Menten)
Subject: Re: WINTER TRAINING
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:01:46 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Andrew Finch (afinch@bu.edu) wrote:
: 
: 		Good luck with winter training everyone.  
: 		5x5's for life.
: 
   
      5X5's?
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: dsj@juniper12.cray.com (Douglas Jackson)
Subject: Rio Bio Bio
Originator: dsj@juniper12
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 21 Dec 92 14:38:15 CST


I was thinking about going down next winter to
kayak the Bio Bio.  I was looking at going with
an outfitter, and saw a couple ads.  The NOC and
some folks from Chile.  The NOC is a lot more
expensive.  Can anyone give me any information as
to how good the outfitters from Chile are?

Also, I am wondering just how tough the Bio Bio
is.  Can anyone compare it to some rivers here
(Southeast I suppose), and tell me what a good
warmup for it would be?

Thanks,

-Doug.
-- 


	-Doug
From: meb4593@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Michael Bain)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Canoe Racks?
Date: 22 Dec 92 19:12:09 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group, Seattle


I use the stock rack that comes with my '88 Cherokee.  

It is rated at 200 lbs; I put pipe insulation where the canoe contacts
the rack.  The bow is tied to the two towing hooks in the front and the
rear to the towing hitch.


-- 
Michael Bain                                            (206) 234-6942
Boeing Commercial Airplane Group           meb4593@icdfs.ca.boeing.com
Seattle, WA 98124

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: distef@carson.u.washington.edu (Sandra Distefano)
Subject: Re: Giardia
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 00:05:57 GMT

rlarsen@bnr.ca (Richard Larsen P220) writes:

>One thing about giardia I havn't heard anyone mention here
>is that it is spread mostly by beavers. Other animals also
>drop their feces in water but beavers are the worst problem.

No.  It is spread mostly by people.  We don't know how to shit
in the woods.  People relieve themselves too close to lakes
and streams, they don't bury it properly, they don't get rid
of their TP properly, etc.  

Beavers do spread it, but people are by far the worst
offenders.

sandra
distef@u.washington.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: X8I8 <X8I8@UNB.CA>
Subject: MOISIE RIVER IN QUEBEC CANADA
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 22:38:57 GMT

Hello fellow canoe and kayak enthusiasts. I live in Fredericton
New Brunswick Canada (thats just east of Maine for all you south
of the 49th parallelers). A friend and I are planning a three
week trip down the Moisie River from Labrador City (the term city
is used rather loosely here) to Sept-Iles in August 93. I have
gathered all the 1 to 50,000 and 1 to 250,000 maps of  the river.
I have also read Davidson and Ruggs (62?) book that was based on
their trip down the river. I am hoping to gain some more info
on any aspect of the river and the QNS&L train that runs from
Sept-Iles to Labrador.
The longest trip we have done to date is @ 8 days so packing
sufficient food for three weeks is somthing I have yet to try,
so any information that seasoned long distance wilderness canoeists
could offer would be greatly appreciated. Our budget is limited
so the expensive freeze dried foods are probably out.
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Paddl. in Alaska, B.C., Y.T.?
From: hxvenus@ualr.edu
Date: 30 Dec 92 15:36:17 GMT
Organization: University of Arkansas at Little Rock

Does anyone know some 'not too rough' rivers in wilderness areas
of Alaska, B.C. or Yukon Terr.? I plan to paddle there for about
two weeks (or more) in June/July. I did some collapsible-boat paddling 
back home in Germany. I don't mind some whitewater as long as I don't
have to be a specialist.

I would like to go from an upper river down its course into the 
sea and then perhaps along the shoreline. 
Is this possible? What types of boats should I prefer / not take at
all?
         Hike  (HXVENUS@UALR.EDU)
From: bg055@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stewart Rowe)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Touring Kayak
Date: 26 Dec 1992 00:43:05 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I have a Phoenix Appalachian, now about ten years old. It is a large-
volume one-person touring kayak. I haven't given it a lot of hard
knocks, but have done 5 to 7-day river trips in it almost every
summer, as well as local rivers and lakes around Cincinnati.
It has a bit too much rocker for working out on a lake, so I fitted
it with a homemade rudder resembling the Seda rudder, which helps.
I've found it a fine boat for river touring, VERY stable, almost
impossible to upset (note that I said"almost").
-Stewart Rowe usr2210a@cbos.uc.edu   srowe@igc.org
Xref: sparky rec.boats.paddle:2238 rec.outdoors.fishing:1514
From: vogler@helios.var.com (William F. Vogler)
Subject: Chile's Boating Season
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:54:32 GMT
Organization: Varian, Palo Alto, CA

Hola Boatheads:

I was thinking of heading down to Chile this winter and hang around
for about a month.

Does anyone know the snow pack situation for the Bio Bio and the
Futalafu (spelling?). I was thinking on heading down somewhere
between mid January to mid February and I wanted to know what
the season will be on these two world class rivers.

I plan on going solo, so somehow I'll have to get to the Bio by 
public transport with my kayak. Once I get to the Bio, I'll hang
out and boat and I'll try to hook up with someone going south to
the Fu.

I'v been down once before in 88 and had a wonderful time.

Any info would be appreciated, thanks in advanced.

Bill, vogler@helios.var.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: elsworth@hekla.pnge.psu.edu (Derek Elsworth)
Subject: Re: reg
Organization: PSU Earth and Mineral Sciences
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 16:28:40 GMT

In article <1993Jan2.223028.9834@ac.dal.ca> walla@ac.dal.ca writes:
>
>	Hello.  Does anyone have any references on making fiberglass molds for
>ocean and/or river (touring) kayaks?  I know of people who have 'bought' the
>molds but how do you MAKE the bloody things?
>

The 'Boatbuilder's Manual' by Charlie Walbridge, Menasha Press,
ISBN 0-89732-022-0 is a good general reference. It includes only a
couple of pages directly on plug (male mold) and mold making but
all of the remainder of the text is useful.

Good luck!!!

Derek Elsworth
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: distef@carson.u.washington.edu (Sandra Distefano)
Subject: Re: Giardia
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 00:16:26 GMT

vsh@etnibsd.uucp (Steve Harris) writes:

>In article <1992Dec18.132201.22853@brtph560.bnr.ca> rlarsen@bnr.ca (Richard Larsen P220) writes:
>He said he had been infected with
>Giardia all season -- sometimes it was worse than others (diarrhea,
>cramps, etc.), but he just kept on going.

>I was a little amazed as I had been led to believe this was a serious
>disease requiring prompt attention.

Some people are able to get their immune systems to get rid of
the infection, others get food allergies, abdominal pain, weight
loss, malaise, eosinophilia, protein-calorie malnutrition,
bacterial overgrowth, and diarrhea.  "The infection may persist
for years and may be fatal." Parasitology, Noble and Noble, 5th edition.
The seriousness of the infection has to do with host factors such as 
gastric acidity or immunodeficiency and with the sheer number of
giardia in the gut (which has to do with the number ingested
and the host factors which allow them to reproduce or not).

sandra
distef@u.washington.edu
 
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: steve@pepe.aero.org (Steve Sedlacek)
Subject: Illinois and Owyhee rivers
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation; El Segundo, CA
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 17:32:21 GMT

	I am looking for more information on the Illinois and Owyhee rivers.
A group of us (mostly kayakers) are planning to do an early April trip on
one of these rivers.  Of course, river levels may cancel our plans.

	Regarding the Illinois, I have read the descriptions in Soggy
Sneakers and Oregon River Tours.  It appears to me most of the river is
of class 3 level or less, with a middle section around the Green Wall
which is more difficult,  I would appreciate comments from anyone who
has actually run the river on how hard it was, and how easy is it for
a kayak to portage some of the harder runs?  Some of the people on the
trip may be comfortable in class 3+ water but not class 4.  Could they walk
around pine flat, Green Wall, Prelude, and some of the "half dozen class 4"
drops following Green Wall if necessary?   We expect to have one support raft
on the trip with a very experinced rower.   How is the run for rafts?

	Regarding the Owyhee, we are considering doing the "standard"
Rome to reservoir run.  This sound like an easy run for our group.
Does anyone have shuttle info (local drivers phone #s, roads to avoid
highlights of the float?)

	Also, from anyone who has run the 3 rivers to Rome section, what is it
like?  


-- 
Steven Sedlacek			sedlacek@aero.org
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: vsh@etnibsd.uucp (Steve Harris)
Subject: Re: Giardia
Organization: Eaton Corp, Semiconductor Equipment Div., Beverly, MA
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:47:19 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.132201.22853@brtph560.bnr.ca> rlarsen@bnr.ca (Richard Larsen P220) writes:
>One thing about giardia I havn't heard anyone mention here
>is that it is spread mostly by beavers. Other animals also
>drop their feces in water but beavers are the worst problem.


NOT!

Although commonly referred to as "beaver fever", Giardia is not
primarily transmitted by beavers.  Man is the principal culprit.

Hiking in the Adirondacks in 91, I spoke with a "ridge-runner" (a guy
who works for the state, informing hikers of the fragility of the
summit ecosystems, advising them to "pack it in -- pack it out",
answering questions, etc., etc.  He said he had been infected with
Giardia all season -- sometimes it was worse than others (diarrhea,
cramps, etc.), but he just kept on going.

I was a little amazed as I had been led to believe this was a serious
disease requiring prompt attention.

-- 
... Steve Harris - Eaton Corp. - Beverly, MA - vsh%etnibsd@uunet.uu.net
From: joel@Apple.COM (Joel Spiegel)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Projet for sale...
Date: 31 Dec 92 05:35:53 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

A friend of mine has a projet for sale. 3/4 inch cut. Price is
$250.00. The boat currently lives just south of San Francisco.
It is in good condition.

CONTACT: Ron Palmer at (415) 348-8088

Cheers,
Joel (don't call me) Spiegel
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: tmenten@boi.hp.com (Tom Menten)
Subject: Re: 50 foot Haida fibreglass canoe for sale ?
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 15:12:59 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

..
: Can I order several in time for Christmas?  What about store samples and
: display models?
:                      :-}
From: walla@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: reg
Date: 2 Jan 93 22:30:28 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

	Hello.  Does anyone have any references on making fiberglass molds for
ocean and/or river (touring) kayaks?  I know of people who have 'bought' the
molds but how do you MAKE the bloody things?


							Peter Wallace
							Dept. of Earth Sciences
							Dalhousie University

Newsgroups: rec.boats