From: ashkon_k@apollo.hp.com
Subject: Re: Principles of Baha'i Faith?
Organization: Explosive Space Modulators - R - Us
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 16:51:38 GMT

> From: RBNXHS@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com
> Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian,talk.religion.misc
> Subject: Re: Principles of Baha'i Faith?
> Date: 31 Jul 92 17:35:08 GMT
> Organization: Rohm and Haas Company
> 
> A question to the Bahais:
>    What is your position in regard to Jesus? Was he a man or a
> God (incarnate)? 

        "The Bearers of the Trust of God are made manifest unto the
     peoples of the earth as the Exponents of a new Cause and the
     Revealers of a new Message.  Inasmuch as these Birds of the
     celestial Throne are all sent down from the heaven of the Will
     of God, and as they all arise to proclaim His irresistible
     Faith, they, therefore, are regarded as one soul and the same
     person.  For they all drink from the one Cup of the love of
     God, and all partake of the fruit of he same Tree of Oneness.
         These Manifestations of God have each a twofold station.
     One is the station of pure abstraction and essential unity. 
     In this respect, if thou callest them all by one name,
     and dost ascribe to them the same attributes, thou hast not
     erred from the truth.  Even as He hath revealed: "No
     distinction do We make between any of His Messengers." For
     they, one and all, summon the people of the earth to acknowledge 
     the unity of God, and herald unto them the Kawthar of an
     infinite grace and bounty.  They are all invested with the
     robe of prophethood, and are honored with the mantle of glory.
     Thus hath Muhammad, the Point of the Quran, revealed: "I am
     all the Prophets." Likewise, He saith:  "I am the first Adam,
     Noah, Moses, and Jesus."  Similar statements have been made by
     Imam Ali.  Sayings such as these, which indicate the essential
     unity of those Exponents of Oneness, have also emanated from
     the Channels of God's immortal utterance, and the Treasuries
     of the gems of Divine knowledge, and have been recorded in the
     Scriptures.  These Countenances are the recipients of the
     Divine Command, and the Day Springs of His Revelation.  This
     Revelation is exalted above the veils of plurality and the
     exigencies of number.  Thus He saith: "Our Cause is but One." 
     Inasmuch as the Cause is one and the same, the Exponents
     thereof also must needs be one and the same. Likewise, the
     Imams of the Muhammadan Faith, those lamps of certitude, have
     said: "Muhammad is our first, Muhammad is our last, Muhammad
     our all."  It is clear and evident to thee that all the
     Prophets are the Temples of the Cause of God, Who have
     appeared clothed in divers attire.  If thou wilt observe with
     discriminating eyes, thou wilt behold Them all abiding in the
     same tabernacle, soaring in the same heaven, seated upon the
     same throne, uttering the same speech, and proclaiming the
     same Faith.  Such is the unity of those Essences of Being,
     those Luminaries of infinite and immeasurable splendor!
     Wherefore, should one of these Manifestations of Holiness
     proclaim saying: "I am the return  of all the Prophets," He,
     verily, speaketh the truth.  In like manner, in  every
     subsequent Revelation, the return of the former Revelation is
     a fact, the truth of which is firmly established . . .
         The other station is the station of distinction, and
     pertaineth to the world of creation, and to the limitations
     thereof.  In this respect, each Manifestation of God hath a
     distinct individuality, a definitely prescribed mission, a
     predestined revelation, and specially designated limitations.
     Each one of them is known be a different name, is
     characterized by a special attribute, fulfils a definite
     mission, and is entrusted with a particular Revelation.  Even
     as He saith: "Some of the Apostles We have caused to excel the
     others.  To some God hath spoken, some He hath raised and
     exalted. And to Jesus, Son of Mary, We gave manifest signs,
     and We strengthened Him with the Holy Spirit."
         It is because of this difference in their station and
     mission that the words and utterances flowing from these Well
     Springs of Divine knowledge appear to diverge and differ. 
     Otherwise, in the eyes of them that are initiated into the
     mysteries of Divine wisdom, all their utterances are, in
     reality, but the expressions of one Truth.  As most of the
     people have failed to appreciate those stations to which We
     have referred, they, therefore, feel perplexed and dismayed at
     the varying utterances pronounced by Manifestations that are
     essentially one and the same.
         It hath ever been evident that all these divergencies of
     utterance are attributable to differences of station.  Thus,
     viewed from the standpoint of their oneness and sublime
     detachment, the attributes of Godhead, Divinity, Supreme
     Singleness, and Inmost Essence, have been, and are applicable
     to those Essences of Being, inasmuch as they all abide on the
     throne of Divine Revelation, and are established upon the seat
     of Divine Concealment.  Through their appearance the
     Revelation of God is made manifest, and by their countenance
     the Beauty of God is revealed.  Thus it is that the accents of
     God Himself have been  heard uttered by these Manifestations
     of the Divine Being.
         Viewed in the light of their second station - the station
     of distinction, differentiation, temporal limitations,
     characteristics and standards - they manifest absolute
     servitude, utter destitution, and complete self-effacement. 
     Even as He saith: "I am the servant of God. I am but a man
     like you." . . .
         Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to
     declare:  "I am God," He, verily, speaketh the truth, and no
     doubt attacheth thereto.  For it hath been repeatedly
     demonstrated that through their Revelation, their attributes
     and names, the Revelation of God, His names and His
     attributes, are made manifest in the world.  Thus, He hath
     revealed: "Those shafts were God's, not Thine." And also He
     saith: "In truth, they who plighted fealty unto Thee, really
     plighted that fealty unto God." And were any of them to voice
     the utterance, "I am the Messenger of God," He, also, speaketh
     the truth, the indubitable truth.  Even as He saith: "Muhammad
     is not the father of any man among you, but  He is the
     Messenger of God." Viewed in this light, they are all but Messengers 
     of that ideal King, that unchangeable Essence.  And were they
     all to proclaim, "I am the Seal of the Prophets," they,
     verily, utter but the truth, beyond the faintest shadow of
     doubt.  For they are all but one person, one soul, one
     spirit, one being, one revelation.  They are all the
     manifestation of the "Beginning" and the "End," the "First"
     and the "Last," the "Seen" and "Hidden" - all of which pertain
     to Him Who is the Innermost Spirit of Spirits and Eternal
     Essence of Essences."   And were they to say, "We are the
     Servants of God," this also is a manifest  and indisputable
     fact.  For they have been made manifest in the uttermost state
     of servitude, a servitude the like of which no man can
     possibly attain.  Thus in moments in which these Essences of
     Being were deep immersed beneath the oceans of ancient and
     everlasting holiness, or when they soared to the loftiest
     summits of Divine mysteries, they claimed their utterances to
     be the Voice of Divinity, the Call of God Himself.
         Were the eye of discernment to be opened, it would
     recognize that in this very state, they have considered
     themselves utterly effaced and non-existent in the face of Him
     Who is the All-Pervading, the Incorruptible.  Methinks, they
     have regarded themselves as utter nothingness, and deemed
     their mention in that Court an act of blasphemy.  For the
     slightest whisperings of self within such a Court is an
     evidence of self-assertion and independent existence.  In the
     eyes of them that have attained unto that Court, such a
     suggestion is itself a grievous transgression.  How much more
     grievous would it be, were aught else to be mentioned in that
     Presence, were man's heart, his tongue, his mind, or his soul,
     to be busied with any one but the Well-Beloved, were his eyes
     to behold any countenance other than His beauty, were his ear
     to be inclined to any melody but His Voice, and were his feet
     to tread any way but His way....
         By virtue of this station they have claimed for themselves
     the Voice of Divinity and the like, whilst by virtue of their
     station of Messengership, they have declared themselves the
     Messengers of God.  In every instance they have voiced an
     utterance that would conform to the requirements of the
     occasion, and have ascribed all these declarations to
     Themselves, declarations ranging from the realm of Divine
     Revelation to the realm of creation, and from the domain of
     Divinity even unto the domain of earthly existence.  Thus it
     is that whatsoever be their utterance, whether it pertain to
     the realm of Divinity, Lordship, Prophethood, Messengership,
     Guardianship, Apostleship, or Servitude, all is true, beyond
     the shadow of a doubt.  Therefore these sayings  which We have
     quoted in support of Our argument must be attentively
     considered, that the divergent utterances of the
     Manifestations of the Unseen and Day Springs of Holiness may
     cease to agitate the soul and perplex the mind."
         -Baha'u'llah, Gleanings, p.50-56, Tablet XXII
     
>  Do you believe in Trinity or not? A detailed
>  outline on your stand on Jesus would be appreciated.
     
         "The Divine Reality, which is purified and sanctified from
     the understanding of human beings and which can never be
     imagined by the people of wisdom and of intelligence, is
     exempt from all conception.  That Lordly Reality admits of no
     division; for division and multiplicity are properties of
     creatures which are contingent existences, and not accidents
     which happen to the self-existent.
        The Divine Reality is sanctified from singleness, then how
     much more from plurality.  The descent of that Lordly Reality
     into conditions and degrees would be equivalent to
     imperfection and contrary to perfection, and is, therefore,
     absolutely impossible.  It perpetually has been, and is, in
     the exaltation of holiness and sanctity.  All that is
     mentioned of the Manifestations and Dawningplaces of God
     signifies the divine reflection, and not a descent into the
     conditions of existence.*
        God is pure perfection, and creatures are but
     imperfections.  For God to descend into the conditions of
     existence would be the greatest of imperfections; on the
     contrary, His manifestation, His appearance, His rising are
     like the reflection of the sun in a clear, pure, polished
     mirror.  All the creatures are evident signs of God, like the
     earthly beings upon all of which the rays of the sun shine. 
     But upon the plains, the mountains, the trees and fruits, only
     a portion of the light shines, through which they become
     visible, and are reared, and attain to the object of their
     existence, while the Perfect Man [The Divine Manifestation] is
     in the condition of a clear mirror in which the Sun of Reality
     becomes visible and manifest with all its qualities and
     perfections.  So the Reality of Christ was a clear and
     polished mirror of the greatest purity and fineness.  The Sun
     of Reality, the Essence of Divinity, reflected itself in this
     mirror and manifested its light and heat in it; but from the
     exaltation of its holiness, and the heaven of its sanctity,
     the Sun did not descent to dwell and abide in the mirror.  No,
     it continues to subsist in its exaltation and sublimity, while
     appearing and becoming manifest in the mirror in beauty and
     perfection.  Now if we say that we have seen the Sun in two
     mirrors - one the Christ and one the Holy Spirit - that is to
     say, that we have seen three Suns, one in heaven and the two
     others on the earth, we speak truly.  And if we say that there
     is one Sun, and it is pure singleness, and has no partner and
     equal, we again speak truly. 
      The epitome of the discourse is that the Reality of Christ
     was a clear mirror, and the Sun of Reality - that is to say,
     the Essence of Oneness, with its infinite perfections and
     attributes - became visible in the mirror.  The meaning is not
     that the Sun, which is the Essence of the Divinity, became
     divided and multiplied - for the Sun is one - but it appeared
     in the mirror.  This is why Christ said, "The Father is in the
     Son", meaning that the Sun is visible and manifest in this
     mirror.  The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God which becomes
     visible and evident in the Reality of Christ.  The Sonship
     station is the heart of Christ, and the Holy Spirit is the
     station of the spirit of Christ.  Hence it has become certain
     and proved that the Essence of Divinity is absolutely unique
     and has no equal, no likeness, no equivalent.  This is the
     signification of the Three Persons of the Trinity.  If it were
     otherwise, the foundations of the Religion of God would rest
     upon an illogical proposition which the mind could never
     conceive, and how can the mind be forced to believe a thing
     which it cannot conceive?  A thing cannot be grasped by the
     intelligence except when it is clothed in an intelligible
     form; otherwise, it is but an effort of the imagination.  It
     has now become clear, from this explanation, what is the
     meaning of the Three Persons of the Trinity.  The Oneness of
     God is also proved." 
         -Abdul-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 113
     
     * Cf."Pantheism", p.290


     regards,

     Kourosh
     ashkon_k@apollo.hp.com
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai