HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: georged@meaddata.com (George Dibos)
Subject: Re: ULTRA marathon cycling
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 12:49:54 GMT

In article <28nmz#f.tomk@netcom.com>, tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
|> You mean to tell me that these guys actaully convinced
|> you of that BS about the bike being drawn along by the
|> 'wind' from the 18 wheeler? :-)
|> 
|> Don't believe it. As long ago as Mile-a-minute Murphy
|> that sort of pseudo-scientific garbage has been passed around.
|> It was proven then and many times since that at the speeds
|> used for these bicycle records that nothing of the sort exists.
|> 
|> The vehicle has a dead spot behind it where the air is moving at about
|> the speed of the vehicle. The rider _only_ (ONLY?) has to 
|> overcome the rolling resistance, which is still pretty large.
|> More problems occur in a long distance challenge since I for
|> one wouldn't like riding behind something that blocked off view
|> of 50 mph pot-holes. :-)


Well, the guy passing around most of the pseudo-scientific garbage has
a European sounding name, and everyone knows the Euros know more about
things cycling than we United Statesians...  so I guess he won the
debate by virtue of FIF (foreign intimidation factor).

You are right, of course: resistance is resistance, no matter what the
source; and removing (most) of the air resistance simply moves rolling
resistance and other mechanical stuff to the head of the line.  WHICH
STILL HAS TO BE OVERCOME BY THE RIDER.  As I've said in this group
before, I have had significant contact with some of these RAAM guys,
Secrest included, and have SEEN and TRIED what they do...  And they
are astonishing athletes.  Period.  And I am also sick of the Euros
scoffing at their achievements, calling them "neanderthals" and the
like.  It's simply arrogance rationalizing ignorance.  
-- 
+---------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------------+
| George Dibos        | Views expressed are my own.... | (513) 865-1689        | 
| Mead Data Central   +--------------------------------+ Software Engineer     | 
| P.O. Box 933        | Every day I drink a toast to   | NGS Update/Data Svcs. |  
| Dayton, Ohio  45401 | the wonders of beautiful women | georged@meaddata.com  | 
+---------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: akkana@netcom.com (Akkana Peck)
Subject: Re: cleaning and lubricating a chain
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 05:18:22 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <9207290239.AA04639@hplomg.hpl.hp.com> BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM writes:
>You aren't perhaps cleaning your chain while it is on the bike are you?  I
>don't believe you can get a chain adequately clean while it is on the bike
>and laced through the derailleur.  The derailleur wheels don't especially
>like to be degreased anyway.

Okay, I've heard it enough times that I'm convinced: my chain will get a
lot cleaner if I take it off the bike to clean it.  Still, I'm lazy; I
clean my chain after every second or third ride (= after nearly every
off-road ride), and removing the chain from the bike sounds like a lot of
work for something I do that often.

Are you anal chain-cleaners (no disrespect intended) really removing your
chains this often?  Or am I picking up an unusual amount of dirt (I use
Tri-Flow, and the chain is always black and coated with dirt after an
off-road ride)?  Is it okay to do my usual post-ride cleaning on the bike
and only do the full remove-and-soak every couple of weeks, or am I just
forcing dirt into the chain and it would be better to leave it coated
with dirt if I don't have time for the full procedure (I can't believe
that's true, but that's the implication of recent postings)?

	...Akkana			akkana@netcom.com
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles:18010 rec.sport.olympics:774
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,rec.sport.olympics
Subject: Re: Evanshine out, Pollak in, Epitestosterone out
Date: 21 Jul 92 18:56:38 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

Les, I am becoming more and more disturbed by the reports
about the testosterone testings. With people like Jan-Gert
Thuneisse proving his innocence we are left to assume that there
are others who do not have the financial wherewithall to
proceed against highly questionable testing procedures.

As a background, I have designed liquid chromotography systems
while employed at Beckman Corp. So I have appreciation for
the quantitative and qualitative results available with
separation science.

There is no doubt that a competent scientist can achieve remarkable
results using these instruments and a developed procedure. But I also
know that separation science is basically an art-form and if it
isn't carefully handled, all sorts of errors can creep in.

If you add to this the possibility that the human body may generate
testosterone in fits and starts rather than metered quantities,
we arrive at the point where we must determine whether the test isn't
now separating body or metabolic types.
From: tdsmith@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Timothy Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: What happened?
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:35:56 GMT
Reply-To: tdsmith@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Timothy Smith)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.bicycles, naru@eng.umd.edu (Naruhisa Takashima) writes:
>Last night (12/29) I taped the 12:30 to 2:05 (12/30 am) Olympic converage
>in hopes of seeing some track event.  Well, this morning as I fast
>forwarded through the volley ball and boxing, I came up to the end
>of the show!  Did I skip through the track coverage?

    Nope, they didn't show any track events.  They did claim at 11:55
PM that the 12:35-2:00 AM show would be on vollyball, boxing and CYCLING.
The T.V. schedual that I marked up called for CYCLING in that slot. 
I stayed up to watch, and there were no track events. Not even a mention 
of the track events. One of the NBC info-mertials showed a weird view of
a chainwheel as preview for the late night coverage.
    The COMMERCIALS had more cycling coverage!!!

    What Bozos!  I don't care if they mess up the schedualing for a
sit-com, but PLEASE don't mess with the Olympics.  Some things are
at the core of a culture, and NBC would do well to learn that you don't
play games with cultural icons.  That builds deep seated resentment.
    I think I watch entirely too much T.V.  In particular, I watch entirely
too much NBC.  I think I'll stop.  I think I'll write them a letter
and tell them I've stopped.  And why.
    Mabey I'll foreward a copy to their major sponsors...

Tim Smith
From: parksd@source.asset.com (Don Parks)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: XC Pro hubs compatible with XT groupo?
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:25:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: source.1992Jul23.152504.33061
Distribution: na
Organization: Asset Source for Software Engineering Technology

I'm thinking of purchasing a set of wheels with Suntour XC Pro hubs.
Is there going to be any problem with this being compatible with a
Deore XT groupo?  I don't imagine so, but I figured I'd ask just in
case before I shelled out the $$

Thanks,

Don
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: georged@meaddata.com (George Dibos)
Subject: Re: Benefits of stretching
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:41:02 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.130203.8571@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com>, caseb@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com writes:
|> How much does pre-ride muscle stretching improve performance on a
|> long ride in terms of fatigue and cramping?
|> 
|> Brian Case 

Excellent question, and not one with a definitive answer...  ten years
ago, I was a strength coach for weightlifters and throwers, and stretching
was GOSPEL.  Full-blown stretching sessions of 30 minutes for all muscle
groups up to maximum range were done before every workout.

Since then, there is mounting evidence that limit stretching--even if it
isn't ballistic--causes micro-tears in muscles and connective tissues
and actually CAUSES injuries in an accumulative fashion that isn't 
completely understood.  The new thinking is that stretching should only
be performed after your body's core temperature is significantly raised
following exercise, and your ligaments, etc. are warm.

That DOESN'T mean maximal effort can be safely applied right off the bat,
though!!!  It means you should work up to "operating temperature" doing
the primary activity, increasing the load gradually.

I hope that helps.


 
-- 
+---------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------------+
| George Dibos        | Views expressed are my own.... | (513) 865-1689        | 
| Mead Data Central   +--------------------------------+ Software Engineer     | 
| P.O. Box 933        | Every day I drink a toast to   | NGS Update/Data Svcs. |  
| Dayton, Ohio  45401 | the wonders of beautiful women | georged@meaddata.com  | 
+---------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: robishaw@orion.lrmsc.loral.com (Gary Robishaw x5960)
Subject: Re: cleaning and lubricating a chain
Organization: Loral Rolm Mil-Spec Computers
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:00:15 GMT

In article <9207290239.AA04639@hplomg.hpl.hp.com> BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM writes:
>
>I always take the decals off my chain before I use it and the ones I use
>are not painted so I see no hazard here.  I just chuck it in a can of solvent
>and rinse it out.
>
>jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
>
Come on, unpainted chains? Mine are all painted with that high tech stuff
they use on the new fighters so it slips through the air more quicklyer.

And how do you remove the decals without ruining them? How do you get them
back on in the right order? Should this be in the FAQ?

Help,

Gary
-- 
Gary Robishaw          "He has a constitutional right to be not guilty."
robishaw@uranus.lrmsc.loral.com       Steven Barrucci after John Gotti's
408/432-5960                          sentencing.
Usnail -- 3151 Zanker Rd. San Jose, Ca. 95134-1928
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: ad198@yfn.ysu.edu (Carl Landis)
Subject: Car Mounts
Reply-To: ad198@yfn.ysu.edu (Carl Landis)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 20:24:16 GMT


Forgive the inquiry if it has been asked many times before but
here goes.  Can anyone suggest a roof mounted bike rack for a
1992 Ford Taurus?  Can one person get the bikes up on the roof
of a car?  I am not a tall person (5'8") so I may be at a
disadvantage in that regard.  Please answer by email.

Thanks.

-Carl
From: kim39@husc8.harvard.edu (John Kim)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Bike nashbar and the Avia Sport shoes Pamela recommended
Date: 25 Jul 92 16:10:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Jul25.121024.14161
Distribution: world
Organization: Harvard University Science Center


	Just to back up my endorsement of Bike Nashbar with actions,
I just got off the phone with them.  They are out of stock (surprise,
surprise) of the Avia sport fitness walkable shoe in size 12, BUT,
they have some size 13 ones coming in August 7.  They were willing
to backorder size 13 but not the size 12.  Since both the Nashbar
person and a net person said these run small, I will take a chance
on the 13s, even though I usually wear 12 (11.5 for my NB cycling shoes).
On the very up side, the price has indeed dropped from abut $55 to
$25.  They were also out of Look ARC cleats (mine are getting a bit
worn and TEflon no longer stops the squeaks for long), but they
expect them within 2 weeks and backordered that too.  They assured
me that my credit card will not be billed for the bacordered stuff
until the day before it is shipped.  

	Of course I can return them if they don't fit, but it will
cost me about $6 to do so.
-Case
From: Mother Nature <gaea@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Interesting facts about bicycles in Ontario (from MoT)
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 23:34:00 GMT

From article <Bs3swA.3G3@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>, by srklump@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (elm):
> over the NCC. Anyone ever heard of bike path speed limits anywhere else
> on the planet?

What I'd like to know is how cyclists know how fast they are going? I mean,
how many cyclists have speedometers on their bikes? I certainly don't. I can
only judge an average of how fast I'm going by taking the length of the route
I travel, and how fast it takes me to travel it. 

Gaea

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: KKRUEGER@Zeus.unomaha.edu (Kurt R. Krueger)
Subject: Re: Barry Tompkins (Was: Re: ESPN & TdF)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:51:04 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

In <9207211809.AA27445@tektronix.TEK.COM> TKPOWELL@bluemoon.profs.tek.com writes:

> Ok, so Barry is a little weird.  His ramblings before Sunday's
> stage had me scrambling for the mute button.  But keep in mind
> that ESPN's coverage of the TDF is 'unprecedented'.  With Greg
> possibly fading, there is no guarantee ESPN will cover this event
> in the future; at least at this (excuse me) 'unprecedented' level.

His announcing is downright bizarre.  He constantly makes strange analogies
such as "The riders are dropping of faster than the dollar is plummeting in
France."  I don't particularly mind him, but I'd rather see someone a bit
less strange.

One very annoying thing about all of these announcers is the way they but-
cher the foreign names.  Here are a few:

                 What they say           Should be
                 ---------------------------------------
Indurain         IN-dur-ain              een-do-ra-EEN
L'Alpe D'Huez    lalp-DO-ez              lalp-do-AY
Ariostea         air-ee-OS-tee-uh        ar-ee-oh-STAY-ah

There are *a lot* more, but those are the ones that really grate against
my ears when I hear them.  I can speak Spanish and get by in French, so
I suppose I'm extrasensitive to these things. :)  They're surprisingly
not too bad with most of the Italian words, but I think that is because
they're harder to sound out, so the announcers asked someone who can speak
the language.

> I, along with the other bikies I know have really enjoyed watching
> and discussing this year's TDF.  Coverage has been excellent.
> I think we should all fax or send congrats to ESPN for doing this.
> Does anyone have a fax number or other mailing information?

I would like an address if someone would please send it to me.


--
/*        Kurt Krueger | kkrueger@zeus.unomaha.edu | kkrueger@unoma1        */
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: chaz@vicorp.com (Charlie Hileman)
Subject: Re: MTB Touring (was: Touring bicycles -- an extict breed?)
Organization: V. I. Corporation, Northampton, Massachusetts
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:53:18 GMT

I toured with a standard touring bike for a number of months (7).  For
parts of the trip, I would ride with people who were on mountain
bikes.  I have a close friend who toured exclusively on his Fat Chance
mountain bike.

In much of Europe (where I was touring), there is really no need for a
mountain bike.  The touring bikes were faster and had less rolling
resistance.  However, my mountain bike companions had not bothered to
use high pressure slicks or drop bars, which is what I would have
done.

Still, there are serious advantages to a mountain bike:
	1)  Smooth paved roads are the exception rather than the rule
	in many countries.  By packing both high pressure slicks and
	"cross" tires (you must pack extras on long trips anyhow), you
	can go many places that a touring bike could not (e.g.
	sub-Saharan Africa, fire access roads in America). Mountain
	bikes give you more flexibility.

	2) Mountain bikes are definitely stronger and are made to be
	abused.  They carry extra weight with no problems.

	3) Many people prefer the body position of a mountain bike.

Certainly mountain bike geometry can make a big difference.  A sharp,
responsive racing geometry just won't work.  You wouldn't want to go
with the smallest frame possible.

What's the big deal about refitting your mountain bike for touring?
Certainly it won't cost you as much as a new touring bike.  Many mt
bikes have both front and rear rack and bottle braze-ons.

Given the choice, if I knew I was going only on paved roads, I would
pull my touring bike out.  If the terrain is mixed or wild, out with
the mtb.

	--Charlie Hileman			ARPA:  chaz@vicorp.com
	  V. I. Corporation			UUCP:  uunet!vicorp!chaz
	  Northampton, Massachusetts
From: ccsdhd@gdt.bath.ac.uk (Dennis Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Tour de France:  Andy Hampsten?
Date: 24 Jul 92 13:07:11 GMT
Organization: Bath University Computing Services, UK

In article <1992Jul21.162937.5274@speedy.aero.org> ardalan@astrosun.aero.org (Shadan M. Ardalan) writes:
>HATS OFF TO ANDY!!!!!  SEE YOU ON THE PODIUM IN PARIS!!!!!
>
>As a side note......
>Did anyone out there notice Andy's bike?
>I could swear it looked like that he was using the STI brake/shift lever for 
>the rear, but he had a standard aero brake lever for the front.....
>If anyone has the ESPN coverage on tape, maybe you could confirm what I think
>I saw....it just looked kinda strange....
>
>If what I saw is true, does anyone have an opinion why he set up his bike 
>that way.....just wondering......

I have in front of me a rather lovely colour photograph of Andy
Hampsten.  It is on the back of Cycling Weekly and was taken on the
ascent of l'Alpe d'Huez by Graham Watson, the professional
photographer.  Andy is using what you describe, a normal downtube
gear lever for the front changer and a STI brake lever for the rear
changer.  He is climbing with his hands on the brake lever hoods.

I'd imagine that his bike was carefully set up for this stage,
especially as he would be aiming for a top finishing position.  Once
on any of the climbs in this stage a rider would be using the small
front chainring for long periods, whereas the rear changer would see
more use as the rider changed gear to take account of change in
gradient, tiredness etc.

Thus you can save weight by just using a down tube lever for the
front changer.  The front changer won't be used much, not when
compared to the use the rear changer will be getting.  It will be
just a matter of changing from one front ring to the other and things
being left in that position for a long time.

There is a weight disadvantage to using the STI lever for the rear
changer.  However most climbers climb with their hand on top of the
bars or on the brake lever hoods.  Thus an STI lever enables you to
change gear without moving your hands from the brake levers.  This is
much better for keeping a smooth pedalling rhythm.  Obviously there
is a judgement call to be made here.  Does the greater ability to
keep a smooth rhythm more than offset any weight penalty ?  Obviously
Andy decided that it did.

Andy's bike also appears to have been fitted with a pair of
lightweight Ringle quick-release skewers on both wheels.  To me this
seems further evidence that his bike was very carefully set up for
this stage.  Weight was saved providing durability wasn't sacrificed.
-- 
Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, United Kingdom
D.H.Davis@bath.ac.uk     ...!uunet!mcsun!ukc!gdr!D.H.Davis
From: BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Question: wheel rebuilding
Date: 30 Jul 92 18:33:40 GMT

Robert Busch writes:

< Excuse me, but are we talking about Arrya rims (I've never heard of these),
< or Araya rims?

Thanks for the spelling help.  They are apparently "Araya" and from the
responses, there is some question about their ability to hold tires for
some users.  What is not established is whether this is substantially
more than for other major brands because tires have come off other rims
for one reason or another as well.  As I said, my reading is that there
is evidence that Araya rims release tires more easily.

As I have posted before, I tested a wire bead Avocet ROAD tire by cutting
the wire at five places before mounting and inflating it on a Mavic MA-2
rim.  At 100 psi the tire did not pop off the rim.  This test was done to
establish that the clinch is what holds the tire rather than the snugness
of fit on the rim.  The tire went on easily without tools.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
From: jyk50@quts.ccc.amdahl.com (  242  J Kretschmann III)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: cleaning and lubricating a chain
Date: 25 Jul 92 00:44:13 GMT

In article <y9gm_qp.tomk@netcom.com> tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
>...if you use a non-shimano hyperglide chain that you can break off easily ...

But you CAN break a hyperglide chain the same as a regular chain.  I
have done it several times and have never used the special link that
Shimano says is required.  I haven't had any problems doing this.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: ardalan@astrosun.aero.org (Shadan M. Ardalan)
Subject: Re: Tour de France (from l'Equipe):  Stage 14
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation; El Segundo, CA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:59:17 GMT

In article <24867@sophia.inria.fr> seales@taquilee.inria.fr (Brent Seales) writes:
>The Tour de France
>Stage 14 (Sunday, July 19)
>Sestrieres - L'Alpe d'Huez
>(186.5 km)
>
>[from l'Equipe Monday, July 20]
>
 ['unpercedented' coverage deleted]
>
>HAMPSTEN AT THE SUMMIT!
>
>Montoya, and then Nevens and finally Boyer are all dropped on the first
>turns of the climb of l'Alpe d'Huez by Hampsten and Vona [Go Andy Go!].
                                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Hampsten drops Vona with 7 km to go.  At the impulse of Chiappucci, 
>the chasing group is rapidly reduced to six riders: Indurain, Chioccioli, 
>Unzaga, Theunisse and Virenque.  Hampsten preserves more than 3 minutes on 
>Indurain and Chiappucci.  Indurain and Chiappucci drop their adversaries 
>with 4 km to go.  Hampsten wins the stage and takes over 3 minutes out of
>Indurain, who preserves the Yellow Jersey.
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

WOW, who would have ever guessed that l'Equipe would be pro-Hampsten ;-) !!!
I think that's great!!!

In case I forget later, thank you Brent for YOUR 'unprecedented stage-by-stage
coverage' of the Tour......I'm going to write a letter to ESPN requesting that
they send you with Phil L. & Paul S. next year instead of this Barry guy....

Thanks again,
Shadan
From: BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Question: wheel rebuilding
Date: 23 Jul 92 07:35:54 GMT

Malcolm Butler writes:

> The question is, is it worth putting new spokes into old rims and
> hubs?  Should I go the whole way and buy new everything?  What should I
> look for in determining how worn the old parts are?  As far as I can
> see, there are no noticeable kinks or dents in the rims, and the hubs
> are OK.

If the hub works and the spoke holes aren't chewed up, you shouldn't
toss it out just to be current.  On the other hand, it doesn't sound like
high quality stuff by your description.  Get a new rim though and not an
Arrya.

> Finally, I'm fairly new to wheel-building, so any advice on that is
> also welcome (and yes, I've read the FAQ and I already have
> _The_Bicycle_Wheel_: thanks Jobst, it's a great book).

Well thanks for the ah... compliment although it doesn't ring quite that
way because in the same "breath" you ask for advice.  I cannot imagine
finding the subject digested in more detail than in the book, even by a
lengthy essay on the net.  Try it, I think it will work.  But first you
must open the book.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com