HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: amueller@teak.cis.ohio-state.edu (andrew j mueller)
Subject: Re: Biggest Scum Ever
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 12:09:05 GMT

	< deleted stuff on t-mode scumming >
>
>Actually, I found him. The user is jimhsu@W20-575-85.MIT.EDU, and the names
>he used were Sum Yung Guy and Papa Bear, and he used Harold, Bob RAleigh,
>and several others to T-mode scum. He was a Commodore as Papa Bear, and a
>Captain a Sum Yung Guy. Here is a complete list:
>
>Papa Bear
>Ross Perot
>Surgeon
>Sum Yung Guy
>Bob RAleigh
>Bob RALeigh
>Bob RALEigh
>Bob RALEIgh
>Harold
>ERnest
>Joe Bob
>Muldaney
>Ezekiel
>Granny
>yolanda
>Yeech
>Bippy
>harold
>boppy
>bopyp
>snotty
>shamu.
>
>His scumming came about starting at 6am on Nov. 14th, and went to 7:46am.
>All his characters were deleted.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  JUSTICE IS SERVED
>
>=======================================================================
>Brian O'Neill - Systems Manager, Computer Science 	 (508) 934-3645
>University of Massachusetts at Lowell
>Internet: oneill@ulowell.edu		Moderator, comp.binaries.ibm.pc
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: New INL scheduling proposal:(long..please read this, however)
From: hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:50:50 GMT
Reply-To: hill@norman.vi.ri.cmu.edu
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

> I have asked for opinions on scheduling on a USENET post about a month 
> to month 1/2 ago.  We "INL Council" do ask people what they think.  I 
> also am of the opinion that the council members should be asking what 
> the people in their school area think.  As an example Rob would 
> represent CMU interests and Tom would represent Berkeley interests.

So far i've seen 3 inl council members post to rec.games.netrek asking  
what people thought of a proposal.  1)  Gamera posting about number of  
teams in playoffs  2)  your scheduling usenet reqest  3)  my scheduling  
request.  There were also haltime proposal (I think "leaked" by me) and  
international players, which was an open net discussion from the start.

> To say we have been negligent here would be false. 

I don't believe so.  I think we have done a poor job at communicating what  
we are doing.  Currently, we are doing nothing, however, so there's  
nothing to report.

> Azusa

Rob
aka Spaceace!
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 23:48:52 -0500 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: XG vs OTR: correction

	The final planet was taken by Warsong, not EEK! as I posted before.
	Everyone blew up, and EEK! was still alive, so we assumed that she did
it.  It turns out they were both on the planet.  The log gives Warsong
the creadit.

ZZnew guy
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: amueller@teak.cis.ohio-state.edu (andrew j mueller)
Subject: Re: freedom of bitmaps
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 12:04:11 GMT


>Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 15-Nov-92 Re: freedom of bitmaps
>Leonard Dickens@mimsy.um (1446)
>
>> I think the idea of being able to design your own ship bitmaps is nice
>> in concept, but we will not be able to find a way to implement it
>> without making it exploitable by people who are willing to spend the
>> time to learn to use something ugly in order to get an advantage over
>> others.  For instance, consider the case where a person makes all of
>> his cruiser bitmaps identical solid squares... yuk.

	sounds like the typical BORG bitmap to me
****************************************************************************
GOD->ALL: bloodwing (K1) was kill 10.5 for .sig (R0)
GOD->ALL: bloodwing (K1) was kill 11.5 for .sig (R0)
GOD->ALL: bloodwing (K1) was kill 12.5 for .sig (R0)
GOD->ALL: bloodwing (K1) was kill 13.5 for .sig (R0)
GOD->ALL: bloodwing (K1) was kill 14.5 for .sig (R0)
K1->ALL: Commodore bloodwing (K1) leaving the game
****************************************************************************
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:18:31 -0500 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Scrimmages
	<By6sC5.D5K.1@cs.cmu.edu>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 23-Nov-92 Re: Scrimmages Herbert
Enderton@cs.cmu. (2343)

> While we're at it,
> let's clamp down on late starts and frivilous pauses.

	I agree.  While I don't think I've seen pauses abused, I get really
upset when I show up on time for a game that starts an hour late.  It
seems to happen an awful lot.

ZZnew guy
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill)
Subject: Re: Lag and the standard on bronco (SC bombers rule!)
Reply-To: hill@norman.vi.ri.cmu.edu
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:04:27 GMT

Brian Paulsen writes
> In article <Bxty3n.37r.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert  
Hill) writes:
> )People don't scout bomb because its too hard.  I usually end up having 
> )to do it, and I hate it.  
> 
> Surely you jest.  Scout bombing is too hard???  Why is it left to 
> usually the most clueless member of the team in INL games?  What 
> happenned to the argument that "We don't scout bomb because anybody can 
> do that.  We handle the tough jobs..."?  Unless you radically changed 
> your style lately, I rarely seen you as a scout bomber.  Unless, of 
> course, you mean that you occasionally bomb a planet if there is 
> *nothing* else to do.

I have no idea why people take clueless members of their team and send  
them to scout bomb.  I'd put the most clueless in the base.  No team that  
i've played on put the most clueless scout bombing.  I'm not saying it  
doesn't happen, just questioning the idea of is it good or not.

Scout bombing is the toughest and most important job, in my opinion.  I  
don't scout bomb in INL games because my talents lie elsewhere.  In pickup  
games, I frequently scout bomb when the bombing isn't gettting done.  If  
my team has a bomber, I take planets and ogg, if not then I bomb.  It is  
the most effective way to kill armies.

> Scout bombing *is* harsh on the ratings, but very few top players care 
> so much about ratings that it stops them from scout bombing.  Why not 
> bomb? Scout bombing is just plain boring.  You should tell it like it 
> is. Hell, I've racked up probably near 100 hours as a scout bomber, and 
> then found ogging and planet taking.

Well, I believe somewhere in that post I did say it was a boring job...and  
you make little progress on it.  Oggers kill takers, planet scums take  
planets, bombers just keep on bombing.

Rob
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill)
Subject: Re: GB at LAR
Reply-To: hill@norman.vi.ri.cmu.edu
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 04:32:50 GMT

  writes
> Why does LAR deserve acrimonius comments simply because calvin is 
> lagged?

Tom's a twink...ignore him.

> As Hadley said, there were several INL games played on calvin all these
> months but no one complained seriously about the lag.  So the first game 
> against the GB was played on calvin, like any other game.  Is that 
> wrong?  Does that make the LAR deserving of your comments?

No, I don't guess so.  I suspect that the reason why no-one complained  
about lag was because you guys had never had an upset-victory.

> If what I heard was correct, GB would not show up for the game if LAR 
> played on calvin for the re-match.  So LAR took the time and effort to 
> setup a UCLA server and drove here to accommodate the GBs!  LAR could 
> have taken the forfeit from GBs but elected to give you a fair(er) shot.

Wow...I see some serious holubism here.  I'd have told him to rot in hell  
if he put it that way..

> If that doesn't deserve an award in the "nice guys" department, I don't
> know what does.  

I agree.

> You can flame calvin all you want, but remember there are people playing 
> in LAR.  I know or have met most of them, and they are nice folks who 
> don't deserve anything less than a "thank you" from the GBs.

Yes.  All of the LAR guys I know are pretty cool.

> John Sin       <jsin@janet.ucla.edu>  

Rob
aka Spaceace!
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: INL overtime
Date: 17 Nov 92 01:47:54 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <BxpznE.3pn.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill) writes:

>I'm curious, has ANY team ever came back from behind at the end of  
>regulation in INL overtime?  I can't think of a single instance of this  
>happening.  I think that it is extraordinarily difficult for a team to do  
>this.

We fell behind in overtime to LAR and managed to come back.  However, at
the end of regulation, we were actually ahead.  Technically, this isn't
an example of what you ask, but it's the next closest thing.

Brian
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: GB at LAR
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:42:17 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <Af2OXuO00Vp3M0zGF5@andrew.cmu.edu> tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Timothy C. Worsley) writes:
>Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 17-Nov-92 Re: GB at LAR Tedd
>Hadley@codes.ics.uc (3478)
>
>> i'm-at-cmu-and-i've-never-had-lag-like-this-on-bronco
>>    lag.
>
>	Why is CMU singled out?

Because people play on bronco so much that they know what lag to expect.
Last year, people were pissed when Moriarty was the server and lag got to
be a real pain, when they were used to bronco lag.  I know that moriarty
is cs, and bronco is ece, but that's the way people think.

Also, people last year were probably annoyed about the UDP thing and not
being able to use it after getting REAL used to it on bronco.  It just
made the lag seem a lot worse.

Brian
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: Hamish.Macdonald@x400gate.bnr.ca (Hamish Macdonald)
Subject: Re: freedom of bitmaps
Organization: Bell Northern Research
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 18:41:17 GMT

>>>>> On 16 Nov 92 17:05:10 GMT,
>>>>> In message <srt.721933510@sun-marino>,
>>>>> srt@aero.org (Scott R. Turner) wrote:

Scott> Hasn't everyone hacked a frameless, transparent X-window with
Scott> appropriate sized circles to drop on top of your tactical
Scott> window like I have?  Since your ship is always in the center of
Scott> your tactical window, you just center the overlay window
Scott> correctly and then you can always see your det and tractor
Scott> ranges.

Nah...

Magic marker.
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: bathurst@noaapmel.gov (Bill Bathurst)
Subject: Re: BRONCO: Is now RSA.
Organization: NOAA/PMEL, Sand Point Way, Seattle, WA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:38:07 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.210944.14388@fs7.ece.cmu.edu> george@fornax.ECE.CMU.EDU (George Cebulka) writes:


   As of tonight bronco will be running the RSA code. for the next 2 weeks you will
   be able to play using either an RSA client or a blessed bronco client. After
   that it will go strictly RSA. Borg hours are still on Tuesdays, any client that
   can connect will be able to play. 
   For a list of installed keys, read the motd. You can get the client from
   pittslug.sug.org in the /pub/netrek/rsa directory.
	   George Cebulka, Bronco server slave.


I have a problem getting RSA extracted:

I ftp the bugger

        ftp pittslug.sug.org

grab the files I need

        key.sun4
        rsa_client.sun4.static.Z.crypt

decrypt it:decrypt it:

        crypt key.sun4 < rsa_client.sun4.static.Z.crypt > rsa_client.Z

Then try to uncompress it.  The problem is compress doesn't recognize it
as being a compressible file.  Has anyone done this yet?

Which brings up another question.  Why the hell didn't they just put the
rsa clients in there in the first place instead of making people search
everywhere for a crypt program (it isn't standard on Suns and Decs).

--
Bill Bathurst				Internet:	bathurst@noaapmel.gov 
NOAA/PMEL				Phone:		(206) 526-6205
From: horde@reed.edu (Mr. Heiji Horde)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: GB at LAR
Date: 20 Nov 92 23:28:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov20.232821.15226
Organization: Twisted Genius Rehabilitation Center, a Division of MHE

In article <By0wDF.Dt6.2@cs.cmu.edu> jch+@cs.cmu.edu (Jonathan Hardwick) writes:
>rone@girtab.usc.edu (Ron Echeverri) writes
>> So basically, USC is fucked because we have a shitty connection. So we have
>> to bus our asses to UCLA for any INL 'home' games we may have, yet suffer
>> "calvin" lag for all our away games.  Let's see how many people agree with
>If USC's net connection has degraded sufficiently that the farce is
>becoming Reed-like (correct school, right?), then I think USC should
>do the honorable thing and leave the INL until they can get a
>reasonable net back. 

Excuse me...Reed (300ms+) is *NOT* a good example of a bad connection to the
  NET. The problem for us is that we have a small wire (56kb). As far as I
  remember, there weren't problems last spring with 300ms+'s HOME games. [In
  fact, I think we were beaten twice at home. And not because of lack of clue.]
Darkhorse beat us 19-1 in 2 hours. Their base used 3 updates everyone else
  used 2. No real problem with ghostbusts and the lag to Reed was also very
  flat throughout the game (miracle).
Are you proposing that minimal equipment rules be put into effect for joining
  the INL? Things like you have a "clean" network connection or the server
  needs to be run on a decent machine? [Speaking of which, will the netrek
  server run on a Dec alpha?] Maybe perhaps INL players should also get
  "real" machines to run the clients off of?

Come on...my floors for lag are at: 40ms to sturgeon, 90ms to calvin, 66ms
  to netrek.atd.ucar.edu, and about 160ms to bronco. Of course, whenever
  someone starts an ftp into during "on" hours, the lag goes through the
  roof (400-3000ms), but I still don't GB. The lag from Reed outside is bad
  but not bad enough to stop me from scumming Commodore on calvin. :-)

	-KreelScum/KnightRaven
	 "Geez, is Reed getting a bad rep here or what?"
	 "And are netrekkers getting *TOO* serious?"
-- 
==============================================================================
  Mr. Heiji Horde   (Unix Systems Programmer, Reed College)   horde@reed.edu
     All insane acts are done in affiliation with Madd Hacker Enterprises
               Disclaimer: Sanity. Never had it. Never will.
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill)
Subject: Re: The use of profanity
Reply-To: hill@norman.vi.ri.cmu.edu
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:34:42 GMT

Alan writes
> > That's odd...I was always taught not to judge people...unfortunately 
> > you grow up and learn differently.
> 
> Cute, so you don't judge people.  Not even me, right?  Even now, as you
> read this, I am writting to the Pope to have you cannonized.

Er, no.  Do you know how to read?  All those flames caused your eyes to  
erode?  You said you were taught to judge people by their actions.  I said  
I was taught not to judge people.  Both of us (and virtually everyone)  
does judge people in one way or another (see above where I say "you grow  
up and learn differently").  I just thought it was odd that you were  
taught to judge people.  Pretty indicative of your peronality, eh?

> > Speaking of actions, alan....grrr....
> 
> Yes and I understand that your anger stems from the fact that I didn't
> follow the advice in the condescending personal email that you sent
> me.  Hmmmm.

My email was neither condescending, nor abusive.  Did you see any  
profanity?  I merely stated my opinion that discussions related to the  
future of rec.games.netrek should be on rec.games.netrek.  I furthur  
stated that I felt that your proposal didn't have the needed support to  
pass.  You're right, alan, that is *really* condescending....(HUGE) NOT!   
I have never said anything inpolite to you, and even warned you that you  
were going to take alot of shit for your proposal.  I don't remember the  
entire context, but there's no need to lie about it...geez.

I *can* show you condescending if you would like.  I frankly don't give a  
shit what you do...I kindof hope you do take your little stupid proposal  
to a CFV so it can be voted down.  Even if it won, do you think I would be  
adversely effected somehow?  My life doesn't revolve around this or any  
other newsgroup.  Get a grip, alan!

By the way, alan, this was posted before I sent any email your way.  Maybe  
if you would read rec.games.netrek as often as you boot people off  
discovery for profanity, you would be up to date.  I thought email was a  
much better thing to do than flame your sorry ass all over the net.  I see  
the error of my ways now...

> Alan Cabrera

Rob
From: jerryw@cs.umd.edu (Jerry Wieber)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Audio Client features?
Date: 17 Nov 92 05:58:40 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <1dr9gtINNcqp@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> mcn@b62103.student.cwru.edu writes:
>  Howdy all!
>
>   I've written an audio client for the NeXT that should be relatively easy to port to other platforms. Before my code gets distributed, I'd like to get  
> 
>an idea of what sorts of features would be nice to have in an audio client.

How about a client that knows how to post <80 column lines to rgn?  But
seriously, I've also written an rough bolt-on audio client (for the Sun
IPX) as a programming exercise.  For a NeXT it's easy to do, for a Sun
a little harder.  Here's a list of the sounds I've chosen to
implement....

/*
 *  The netrek sound client
 *
 *  by Jerry Wieber
 */


/*
 * make_sound()
 *
  [...]
 *
 *  Sound Priorities:
 *
 * 15 Explosion (self)
 * 14 Explosion (other, killed by self)
 * 13 Losing Shields (5% or less)***
 * 12 Etemp
 * 11 Wtemp
 * 10 Plasma fire
 *  9 Plasma smack
 *  8 Phaser Fire
 *  7 Phaser Hit (or phaser hit of plasma)
 *  6 Torp fire
 *  5 Torp hit
 *  4 Sending self-distress call
 *  3 Scanning
 *  2 Red Alert***
 *  1 Entering sound
 *  0 Intro sound
 *
 *  *** == possible info-borg stuff
 *
 *  A sound can interrupt another sound if it has an equal or higher priority.
 */

I arbitrarily selected this priority system as a way to manage sounds.  The
actual sound handler is a child that communicates via shared memory
and interrupts.

There are several technically not-as-interesting things that I have not
implemented, notably .xtrekrc sound file choosing, and the sound hooks
themselves.  Of course, I've also missed several opportunities for other
sounds.

I'm not the first to do this. At least two other people, Jerry Frain
and Joe Young, combined to make a successful sound client last year
about this time.  I have purposely avoided looking at their code; it
may very well be more elegant than mine.

-Jerry
-- 
                                                           __________ 
 UUCP:     uunet!cs.umd.edu!jerryw   SPOKEN: Jerry Wieber  |/ `-.    | U of Md
 INTERNET: jerryw@cs.umd.edu                                     \_|.|-,  
                                                                    ` - 
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: rob@psy.vu.nl (Rob van Leeuwen)
Subject: I've got crypt.
Organization: VU Amsterdam - dienst CCA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 10:22:48 GMT

Hi, here I am, sitting in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, *EUROPE*,
and I surely do have crypt on my 4.3BSD vax.  What law am I breaking?
--
Rob van Leeuwen (rob@psy.vu.nl)
Department of Psychology, Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam, the Netherlands
From: leonard@mimsy.umd.edu (Leonard Dickens)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Better ghostbust detection
Date: 21 Nov 92 21:34:01 GMT
Organization: Deep Thirteen, Gizmonics Institute

Tedd Hadley writes:
>   Ghostbusts (the server actually
>   exploding the ship) occur whenever the TCP connection is broken (the UDP
>   connection is another story).

>   One possible fix is to make the TCP queue as small as possible, and
>   implement a send queue in the server.  On each TCP write it is then
>   possible to determine the status of the connection by checking for the
>   error status on the write.  This strategy could also be combined with
>   a timer check on the read side (reset each time the server gets a command
>   from the player).  It would probably take some fine-tuning but at least
>   initially the server could be able to notify captains (or the ALL board)
>   of possible ghostbusts.

Here is another idea for ghostbust detection.  Make a new "ping"
packet type.  The server should timestamp and send (via UDP if
possible) a ping every second or so to each client, which should then
respond with a similar numbered ping packet, with the current time for
the client added.  

By analyzing the timestamps on the ping, the server should be able to
get a good idea of what the lag is for that player.  A player could
then be ghostbusted if perhaps 3 or 4 pings went unanswered.

-Leonard

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jch+@cs.cmu.edu (Jonathan Hardwick)
Subject: Re: RSA question (Why only US and Canada)
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 19:06:44 GMT

rjones@itchy.dsd.es.com (Ray Jones - Perp) writes
> jch+@cs.cmu.edu (Jonathan Hardwick) writes:
> >[...]
> >So, in order for US players to play abroad (and vice versa) using PKE
> >technology, one of two things has to happen:
> >   a) non-US players get ahold of RSAREF, thereby breaking the export
> >      regulations of the Unbelievably Dumb Guys,
> >or b) US players get ahold of client and server code that uses eg PGP
> >      in place of RSAREF.  This will violate the patent of The Bad
> >      Guys.
> >
> >See?  It's a lose-lose situation.  *Someone* has to break the law.
> 
> Why not have US players and servers use RSAREF, and Non-US use PGP?
> They do the same thing (the RSA encryption thang).  Really.  

Because no-one had bothered to attempt it?  Anyway, my post is now
obsolete (thank god) due to:
 (a) the apparent legality of exporting binaries using RSAREF code
     (tune in for the next exciting installment on sci.crypt)
 (b) work on making the code Reel Eezy to convert between RSAREF and
     PGP.
 (c) the goading finally getting to the fat-controller, so he's
     started work independently on a PGP client.
but I'm not gonna cancel it because I like my characterizations of The
Bad Guys and The Unbelievably Dumb Guys.  Phphphphphpfffttt :-)

Jonathan H., jch@cs.cmu.edu                    Keeper Of The Netrek Archives
Access for the masses : anonymous FTP to gs69.sp.cs.cmu.edu (128.2.206.167).
If you have AFS, look in /afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/jch/netrek.  If you have WAIS,
use the netrek-ftp database, available on port 6000 of gourd.srv.cs.cmu.edu.

PS Note new sig, designed to cut down on the number of people who log
in as "anon", or try cd-ing to /afs/cs/user/jch/netrek after logging
in, or (horrors) try to connect directly to port 6000 of gourd.srv.
Whaddya think?  Improvement?  Maximum information in minimum lines?
Can anyone think of ways to make it better?
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: mikey@eukanuba.wpd.sgi.com (Mike Yang)
Subject: Re: Comments during games
Reply-To: mikey@sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:02:08 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.033637.9499@wam.umd.edu>, theodore@next09cville.wam.umd.edu (Theodore Jonathan Casser) writes:
|> If that is how many veterans treat us newbee's, then maybe you  
|> should think about how the other person is going to take it when you post  
|> it on the message board.

Please do not generalize "veteran behavior" based on the actions of
one or a few.  The more vocal of the "veterans" may also tend toward
the extremes of helpfulness and/or irritation.

I agree that players could be more helpful and understanding in their
messages.  I'm sure that we've all been in high-tension games and been
frustrated when a core agri planet is taken right out from under our
teammates.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                 Mike Yang        Silicon Graphics, Inc.
               mikey@sgi.com           415/390-1786