HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: scridd@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: breasts (was: Re: BRA SURVEY)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 10 Sep 1992 13:57 EST  

In article <exukjb.135.716060240@exu.ericsson.se>, exukjb@exu.ericsson.se (ken bell) writes...
>In article <J0sRqB4w164w@kryton.UUCP> system@kryton.UUCP (Scott Beckstead) writes:
>>Perhaps I'm just old and jaded but i tend to take nudity for granted.  I
>>mean  I don't get aroused at the site of a naked female unless I am
>>looking at a  naked feamle TO GET AROUSED.  Unless it is my purpose it

>Might it not be the case that overexposure or the wrong or inappropriate 
>exposure to sexual material dulls our capacity for deep and fulfilling sex?  

Not for me, nor IMHO for many of this newsgroup.

>Repeatedly I have been advised to expose myself to nudity for the express 
>purpose of dulling my sexual response to potentially sexually stimulating 
>sights, presumably in the interest of acquiring some enlightened or 
>realistic appreciation of the female body.  But I want to ask why it is 
>that I should want to have this response dulled?  -- Unless it is better 
>to be jaded.

I feel a little sorry for anyone for whom sexual response is primarily
dependent on sensual, particularly visual, stimulation.  IMO it is
indicative of an immature sexuality.  But it must be a widespread feeling,
after all why do so many hold the nudity => sex view?

To me, the best sexual stimulation arises arises from a loving, intimate
relationship with another person.  Certainly the sensual aspects enhance
such a relationship, but they need not predominate, nor will they be dulled
by this putative overexposure that Ken talks about.  Just my opinion.

>Sex has already been extensively banalized by that child of the sexual 
>revolution, the contemporary crotch culture.

What exactly do you mean by this?

>  I prize sex for its 
>contribution to interpersonal intimacy and its mystery and excitement.

I agree.

>  You 
>would have me exorcise the very responses that give rise to these attitudes 
>as mere acculturated societal excrescences on my manhood. I hope you will 
>understand if I cordially reject the advice.  

To each his own.

Jeff
From: wkc@cup.portal.com (William Kirk Clendinning)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: exposure dulls desire
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 22:39:48 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
  <exukjb.135.716060240@exu.ericsson.se> <1992Sep10.105904.5653@tfs.com>
  <dNr-05-@engin.umich.edu>

I think the state of mind is being missed here.  What is important
is the apropriateness of the response.  As a photographer that shoots
nudes I find no excitement in the unclothed form, however I find my
wife most tantalizing in an identical state of undress.  The point is
that one's actions should fit the situation.  When I am working on a
photograph I cannot afford to have my mind clouded with eroticism.  When
I am with my wife...                          
Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: wix@eskimo.celestial.com (Dennis Wicks)
Subject: Re: test
Organization: >>> Eskimo North (206)-FOR-EVER <<<
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 05:45:19 GMT

In article <cm51qB1w165w@netlink.cts.com> susan@netlink.cts.com (Susan Atrix) writes:
>Help! Every time I post to this group I never see the result...
>does anyone out there here me?
>
>--
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>| Gone surfing...                                                |
>|         Susan ...                    susan@netlink.cts.com     |
>------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, we "here" you, Susan!

Your post made it to Seattle from ... ?

Keep on posting!

But your mail has been bouncing???
From: stella@molbio.cbs.umn.edu (Stella Veretnikgrad)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: MINNESOTA NATURISTS FALL 1992 CO CALENDAR
Date: 12 Sep 92 15:28:49 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: U of MN Herbarium

FALL 1992 CLOTHING-OPTIONAL CALENDAR
                  MINNESOTA NATURISTS

Kids are admitted FREE at all activities.

**Tentative.

Sunday, September 20 - MIXED PAIRS BBQ in SE Mpls. 2-7 PM.
BYOB and your own meat for the grill.  Salads/non-alcoholic
beverages are provided.  Adults pay $3 at the door.

Saturday, September 26 - NEW MOON HOUSEPARTY in S. Mpls.
7:30 PM.  $3 at the door.  Refreshments provided.  Bring a towel
to sit on.

Sunday, October 4 - INDOOR SWIM in Eagan.  6-10 PM.  "Discover
SCUBA" option at 9 PM.  Bring a towel.  Cost is $5 at the door.

Saturday, October 10 - MOONLIGHT HIKE with optional overnight
camping in nearby State Park.  Meet in SE Mpls. for 3:00 PM
departure.  Cost is park entrance fee.  Bring your own camping
gear if you plan to stay overnight.

Sunday, October 18 - FITNESS CENTER RECREATION, 2-5 PM.  Free
for anyone who attends the whole annual meeting from 2 to 3 PM.
Sauna, jacuzzi, walleyball, racquetball, free weights, machines, and
tanning bed.  Bring a towel to sit/lay on while using the equipment.
No handicap access.

Saturday, October 24 - BOWLING IN THE BUFF in S. Mpls.  Unlimited
bowling, $8; if not bowling, $4.  Pool tables, ping pong, video games,
and grill food/drinks also available.  Bring a towel to sit on.

Saturday, October 31 - COSTUME HALLOWEEN PARTY in South Mpls.
8 - 12 PM.  $4 at the door.  Use your creativity.  Refreshments
provided.

**Saturday, November 7 - VOLLEYBALL afternoon in S. Mpls.  $3 at
the door.

Sunday, November 8 - MIXED PAIRS POTLUCK in Roseville.  Bring a
towel to sit on.

Sunday, November 15 - INDOOR SWIM in Eagan.  6-10 PM.  $5 at the
door.  Fins, masks, snorkels, pool toys provided.  "Discover
SCUBA" option at 9 PM.  Bring a towel.

Thursday, November 19 - THANKSGIVING POTLUCK DINNER in SE
Mpls.  7 PM.  Call to sign up for table item.  Bring a towel to sit on.


         -- VISITORS WELCOME AT ALL ACTIVITIES --


-- For further details, call John at (612) 339-3898 or 
Pam at (612) 333-0949.

E-mail to farquhar_allen_b@lilly.com.

This applies to Mixed Pairs SIG events only (as noted above):
Any member or guest may attend - but they must be 
accompanied by a MOTOS, insuring an even gender ratio.  The 
person could be a friend, brother, sister, daughter, son, parent, 
partner, spouse, etc.

All other events:
Any member or guest may attend.
Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: malkor@IASTATE.EDU (Jason D Bowles)
Subject: article by Cynthia L. Jorden
Reply-To: malkor@IASTATE.EDU (Jason D Bowles)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 01:10:34 GMT


Hurray, Cynthia!!!
From: bf101@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Doug Stevens)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: new subjects or subject lines
Date: 5 Sep 1992 21:28:41 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I just thought that I would make an observation for anyone
who cares to listen.  I am new to this board and generally
enjoy it, especially the "first-timer" reports.  However, 
if someone only looked at the subject lines on this area,
it would be easy to assume that people who contribute here
are just as obsessed with women's breasts as mainstream 
society.  I don't have time to read all messages, so it's
possible that some of the messages with "breast" titles are
not about breasts, but it sure appears that was.  It would
really help people like me if the subject headers relfected
the content of the discussion.  If, however, this is already
the case, then maybe we need to examine why discussion here
so frequently centers around women's breasts.

Thanks to anyone who listens . . .

Doug Stevens
usr6338a@tso.uc.edu

-- 
_______
\.   ./
  \./   usr6338a@tso.uc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: creutz@cco.caltech.edu (Michael John Creutz)
Subject: Re: LONG ISLAND CO?
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 01:44:18 GMT

Exit 68, LIE, South to end, walk 1/2 mile west.
Also about 1/2 mile west of Davis Park, reached by ferry from Patchogue.
Neither official, but tolerated.

Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves)
Subject: Re: Good time had by all.
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:39:49 GMT

In article <92254.130202SJS132@psuvm.psu.edu> SJS132@psuvm.psu.edu (Steve Shimatzki) writes:
>Hello,
>
>I went to OTR (Old Timers Reunion) over labor day weekend.  This is basically
>a Big cavers PARTY, with Auction, beer, games, cavetrip, and such.  But one
>night after I took a shower, I found out they had Co-Ed Showers there also!
>I also found out they had WET and Dry Saunas Set up down in a Nudist area.
>Very nicely done, no cameras, no entrance.. unless you were going to
>participate also.  They also Damned up an area of the stream there to make
>a nice nude swimming hole.  After spending much time in the saunas and
>the stream, I was hooked.  Next Year my SO is coming with me, she liked
>the ideal of all the fun we had.

Most caving conventions are like that.  The hot-tub at the NSS
convention is traditionally nude, and a high percentage of cavers are
nudists. 


ObNude:

I dug a test hole at the site I'm planning on putting in a lake,  I
hit solid clay about 2 feet down.  This means the lake should be a
success.  Now if I can just get the money to rent a dozer I'll have a
decent swimmin hole!  Estimated time to swimmin hole is some time in
93.  I'll hold a rec.nude party when it's done.

-- 
Anmar Mirza   # Mayor of Dogspit, IN  #My Opinions! NotIU's! #Purveyor of
EMT-D         # Located somewhere in  # Legalize Explosives! #nontraditional
N9ISY (tech)  # the Outback of the    #I've got my own fusion#family values
Networks Tech.# Mirza Ranch.C'mon over#plant. Just ask me.   #Space For Rent
Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: earp@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James K Earp)
Subject: Re: coed bathrooms
Keywords: bathrooms
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 10:27:08 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.174444.11518@unislc.uucp> kbiesel@unislc.uucp (Karen Biesel) writes:
>You people are talking about coed bathrooms, then ask what's wrong
>with urinals. Ha, Ha,
>
>As men say, we find them quite useful.  My point exactly.  They are only
>useful to men.  Why are you spending money and using up room putting
>a fixture in a coed facility that only 50% of the people can use?
>
>Karen Biesel
>
Karen, I gave this a good bit of thought and came up with no reason
why it was "fair" to provide urinals, but I did come up with a couple
practical ones.  At least 2 urinals can be set in the wall in the 
same space as 1 toilet stall.  In busy or crowded co-ed facilities I
think this would be appreciated as men who only have to urinate could
use the urinals at twice the rate of a stall.  This would leave the
toilet stalls free for only those who "need" them, men or women.  Of
course you always get the guy whose modesty is a bit overdone and 
passes the unused urinals so he can stand and squirt in the stall.
(Grumble, grumble, grumble!)  I leave it up to those who enjoy  
running queueing (sp) theory problems to figure out the right ratio
of urinals to stalls for a given facility.

If anybody's interested, I am all for co-ed facilities.  Maybe if we
all have to face each other on equal ground, men and women can be more
like family than opponents.  Oops, sorry.  Shifted to philosophical
mode there!  

Bye!
From: darkmoor@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Darkmoore)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: fuck
Summary: My isn't that liberal of you...not!
Date: 8 Sep 92 04:17:58 GMT
Organization: Purdue Computing Center

In article <65325@cup.portal.com>, Jeff_R_Spangenberg@cup.portal.com writes:
> You are all a bunch of nigger fuckheads

  My, isn't that just so liberal of you........NOT!

  
Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: bote@access.digex.com (John Boteler)
Subject: Re: Assateague
Organization: Express Access Public Access UNIX, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 03:05:15 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.210601.1798@samba.oit.unc.edu> Mark.Cornick@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Mark Cornick) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.142108.27328@udel.edu> jrogers@hercules.cis.udel.edu (James Rogers) writes:
>>There were a couple of recent posts about a CO area on Assateague Is.
>>Not too long ago there was some discussion of the
>>Park Service `enforcing local laws'.


They are, at Chincoteague Beach; that's Assateague Island on the
Virginia end. (Yes, there is a difference between Maryland and
Virginia).

>I was just at Assateague this past Saturday. 
>A Park Service truck drove through at one point, and the
>other (nude) people there just waved to the driver and he waved back, so I
>guess there isn't really a problem at the current time. I definitely
>suggest checking it out while there's still time this summer.

Why didn't you say 'hi'? I usually bail out by noon
so that I don't end up with leatherette-skin-cancer
syndrome, so maybe you showed up after that. All is forgiven :)

By the way, Pole 6 is our unofficial demarcation line which gives
the administration something to go by, rather than have
a nebulous area "up there somewhere" which changes
from day to day. It seems to be working nicely, as
long as we continue to have responsible beach users 
as we have been all Summer. Enjoy!


-- 

bote@access.digex.com (John Boteler)

Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: perlman@SMTC.engr.scarolina.edu
Subject: Ironic, isn't it?
Reply-To: perlman@smtc00.engr.scarolina.edu
Organization: NIST Southeast Manufacturing Technology Center
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 12:35:32 GMT

Lately, I've been doing my swim workouts at a local neighborhood pool
around dawn.  Tuesday, I got there extra early and got up the nerve
to leave my suit on the side of the pool.  It was great - swimming
free, the cool water and air, under
the stars.  (A question: I was wearing goggles, so I wasn't nude. Right?)

Thursday, the local pool had closed and I returned to the YMCA.  The
drawstring on my speedo had slipped inside the seam and I couldn't get it
out to tie it.  Finally I gave up and tried swimming without tying it.
On the first turn I felt the top of my suit sliding down so I had to quit.

I guess I'll get my speedo fixed, but, oh ... its going to be a long
time till next spring when the local pool reopens.
From: tesmer@pandora.bio.purdue.edu (John Tesmer)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: Young People - Body Acceptance
Date: 8 Sep 92 02:30:53 GMT
Organization: Purdue University, Dept. of Biological Sciences

In article <1992Sep6.025616.25592@access.digex.com> bote@access.digex.com (John Boteler) writes:
>In article <Btwn8r.K2L@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> tesmer@pandora.bio.purdue.edu (John Tesmer) writes:
>>isn't for the faint of heart, because it had its share of of people 
>>on the beach that I felt were there
>>for the wrong reason.  I mean "wrong" by treating it as a place 
>>w[h]ere loose men and women would hang
>>out.  I think this is an attitude/mistake that many young folk would 
>>find easy to make.  
>
>Yeah. Silly me, I would think a place with a name like
>"Hedonism" would be for an ascetic retreat where I could
>find spiritual enlightenment. What are those other folks
>thinking :?
>
>aarrgh!

Silly indeed. :)  
However, the point I was trying to make that it was "wrong" in
the context of rec.nude (or shall I say what seems to be the
prevailing attitudes of rec.nude) with respect to the fact that
being nude doesn't (necessarily) mean that you are available
for stud.  I don't mean "wrong" because I thought it was
immoral--more power to them. ;)  This is exactly the reason
why I said I didn't think it was for the faint of heart.  But 
you know, I haven't been to any other nude beaches so maybe
this is such a common problem it isn't worth mentioning.

Even with a name like "Hedonism", it doesn't mean that most
folk on the nude beach didn't find spiritual enlightenment.
Me and my wife did. :)

	Sorry if I stated the obvious,

				JJGT
Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: malkor@IASTATE.EDU (Jason D Bowles)
Subject: nude legislation
Reply-To: malkor@IASTATE.EDU (Jason D Bowles)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 00:35:50 GMT

re: kenny's reply to dav:
I agree with both of you.  I'm usually very prudish(to use kenny's own words)
but I do believe that if a half-crotchety, scagy-looking old highway worker with
more crack showing than a cocaine dealer can run about on a pulic highway, that
a beatiful female should be able to work(or whatever-- no wolf-whistles, thank
you)topless if she so desires and need not worry about some passing
what's-his-name groping he simply because its out there.  I haven't been to a
nude beach myself, but a couple of my friends have and they haven't heard of
charges being pressed yet.

But this taboo-ism about the body mystifies me.  Is the human body really that
ugly?  I have little experience with other bodies, but I think that mine and
those others that I have seen look fine.

And as for rapists...GET AN AFTERLIFE!!!  If "but she had TAIL to-die-for and a
mini-skirt" were really an excuse every 16 year-old male would have raped at
least that many women.  Rape, I believe, is simply an immature ballance for
self-respect.  A "man" with low self-esteem rapes a woman, or a man(don't laugh
guys, it happens) to feel more powerfull.  Unfortunately, it works.

This may sound militant(coming from a man), but I believe that if a person is
charged with rape, they shouldn't be able to plea-bargain their way out of it
and they should get at least 20 years(no parole).  E-mail me or post a reply
here.  I'll be listening.
							malkor =|:)


Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: cmgrawbu@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER M GRAWBURG)
Subject: Nude College Girls?
Originator: cmgrawbu@c00558-1403br.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: cmgrawbu@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER M GRAWBURG)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:46:29 GMT




I know the title sounds a little weird and I might add that I'm not posting
a personal ad or anthing, but I would like to know if there are any college
girls out there that practice nudity of some type or another (nude in groups 
just by yourself.)

The reason I ask is that there seem to be a WHOLE lot more guys posting as 
compared to girls.

Post or write me at cmgrawbu@eos.ncsu.edu


Chris
From: hebo@hp850.mbari.org (Bob Herlien)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: CO along the CA coast?
Date: 11 Sep 92 19:53:24 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute

In article <18pcr9INNbsi@network.ucsd.edu> middleto@poincare.ucsd.edu (Tom Middleton ; System Manager) writes:
>
>them.  When the trail opened up to the beach at Pfeiffer I expected to
>see a bunch of nude folk, I saw none.  I decided not to strip in front
>of the families there and instead walked north until I passed a big rock
>and discovered a stretch of relatively unpopulated beach (less than 1/2
>dozen people on about 250 yards of beach).  Even though the wind was harsh
>and cold I was determined to get in some altogether sunning and stripped
>down.
>

Yes, that rock is the unofficial boundary between the clothed and CO sections
of the beach.  The beach in the CO section gets fairly wide.  If you set up
as far back from the water as possible, you'll find that the cove formed
by the trees and bushes offers some protection from the wind.

>I walked a bit, tested the water which was COLD, and then sat down to enjoy
>my lunch.  The wind blew sand on my apple and sandwich.  I layed down and
>my tan was sandblasted away.  After about 1.5 hours I determined I wasn't
>in Southern California anymore and decided it was time to leave.
>

Yep, you found Pfeiffer, all right :-) :-).  Sure is beautiful, though.

I also have fond memories of Pfeiffer because it was my wife's first nude
beach.  I brought her there about 7 years ago, shortly after we were married.
She's *very* nearsighted without her glasses.  When we got to the CO section
and put down our beach blanket, she commented that everyone was wearing the
same color swim suit.  I told her to look again :-).  I was proud of her, 
though.  Despite her declaration that she would never do that, within a 
couple of hours we were both happily running down by the water, skyclad.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Herlien
MBARI (Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute)
hebo@mbari.org
"Limit congressmen to two terms.  One in office.  One in jail."
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: Someone else will be offended
Date: 12 Sep 92 09:26:31 GMT
Organization: TFS

arnett@unixg.ubc.ca (Bill Arnett) writes:
... nudity offends: (some poll:)
>      was "yes --- 20% and no --- 80%"! 
...
>Unfortunately, the "immoral minority" cries out *very* loudly.

If the right wing in this country were directly confronted by everyone
who thought they were s**theads, they would dissolve.
Who wants to be rejected!!
-ecsd
Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: s7356911@deimos.ucc.umass.edu (DYLYN)
Subject: Breasts and exposure
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 02:22:00 GMT

arnett@unixg.ubc.ca (Bill Arnett) writes:
>=> In article <1992Sep5.023114.21069@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> pciszek@nyx.cs....
>=> >Be forwarned; if women begin going topless in public, I will enjoy it and
>=> >think politically unfashionable thoughts. 
>=> 
>=>You are, of course, correct.  There is no law against being rude,
>=> disrespectful, and obnoxious.
>=> Bill.
>=> -- 
>=> Bill Arnett                            Internet: arnett@unixg.ubc.ca

	I don't think simple enjoyment = rudeness or disrespect.
	Actually, at one of the few places I have seen wide-scale 
toplessness,  at South Beach on South Miami Beach during Art Deco weekend,  
there was no harassment of any woman who was topless that I could see.  
There were a number of them at the beach alone, too, so you can't attribute
this lack to "boyfriends scaring off the harassers''.  Sure there was
lots of looking (I don't considered a glance to be harassment);
but nobody topless got bothered that I could see.
	BTW, it's weird, but this beach scene had a much sexier under-
current than any nude beach I've been on.  

----on a different subject---------------------------------------
Eric C. S. Dynamic  (ecsd@tfs.com) writes:
=>s7356911@deimos.ucc.umass.edu (DYLYN) writes:
...
=>>to relax and enjoy sex much more.  Less hang-ups about my body and,
=>>consequently, more able to get into the intimacy.  (yes, acceptance of
=>>who and what you are is a wonderful thing.)

=>Bravo. Coo-ell. Viva humankind . . .
	Seems like you're being sarcastic here, eric, but it's hard to tell
on the Net.  If you're not, thanks;  if you are, well, bite my bare butt.
In either case, happy reading and have a nice day :-P

_/\  /\ dylyn (aka, d prosser) == S7356911@UCSVAX.UCS.umass.edu  /\
   \/  \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/  \/~~~~~
From: hebo@hp850.mbari.org (Bob Herlien)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: CO along the CA coast?
Date: 4 Sep 92 23:18:07 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute

In article <185sqpINN3ee@network.ucsd.edu> middleto@poincare.ucsd.edu (Tom Middleton ; System Manager) writes:

>Going past San Simeon you'll find nude beaches at Pfeiffer Big Sur and
>Molera State Park.
>
Really?  I've been to Pfeiffer often, but I didn't know there was a nude beach
at Molera.  I assume you have to hike a ways, since the parking lot is a ways
from the ocean, right?  Can you give directions?

As for Pfeiffer, it's one of the most beautiful beaches on the west coast,
IMHO.  However, it's hard to find (you would need good directions), and
very windy much of the time.  The nude portion is down the beach to the
right, past some rocks, but I've only actually seen people nude there on
rare occasion, because of the wind.  In fact, I've only seen people with
less than shirts, jeans, and often coats and jackets rarely, because of wind.
But I love to go there just to walk on the beach.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Herlien
MBARI (Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute)
hebo@mbari.org
"Limit congressmen to two terms.  One in office.  One in jail."
Newsgroups: rec.nude