HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cramer@mahler.psu.edu (Michael R. Cramer)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: Re: Bauhaus
Keywords: final concert
Date: 8 Oct 92 23:33:50 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

In article <BvtEED.G73@acsu.buffalo.edu> bsherman@acsu.buffalo.edu (Brian C. Sherman) writes:
>I just bought the 2CD Rest In Peace... Bauhaus' final concert.  It is great!
>Anyone else hear this sucker?  Is it an England-only release or did it go into
>wider distribution?  Who are Nemo Records?  Why isn't this a Beggar's Banquet
>release?  Do they have more Bauhaus shows?
>
>               -Brian, who is clueless, but LOVES this...


I bought it late in August in a Tower Records store in Philadelphia. At
first I thought it MUST be a bootleg, as it wasn't on Beggars Banquet,
but upon opening it I was amazed at the quality. The sound is fantastic!!
And they waited an awful long time to release it if it was a bootleg. I  
still kinda think it must be a bootleg though...I don't see why they'd
put out a new album, even if it is live....i dunno...worth the 25 bucks (yea
25 bucks!!!!) I had to pay for it...

-- 
Michael Cramer                   | "Son I am able she said though you scare
mrc@ecl.psu.edu			 |  me watch said I, beloved I said watch
mrc113@psuvm.psu.edu		 |  me scare you though, said she, able am I
cramer@(vivaldi|orville).psu.edu |  son."  I Palindrome I: They Might Be Giants
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
From: ieya@byron.u.washington.edu (Morpheus Laughing)
Subject: goth list additional
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: alt.gothic
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 08:18:54 GMT


because i am of course completely mad and have nothing better to do with my 
time right now. i wanna put together a second version of the goth list along
the lines of "if you like band x, you''l probably like bands y & z"
anyone that would like to help should take the goth list(which should be the
post right before this one and edit it thusly:

Fields of the Nephilim( the wake, joy division, siglo XX)

and so on, any help would be appreciated and credited

ieya

-- 
corey w nelson		|  EGO PROJECT NUMBER II: a goth/som zine
keeper of the Sisters	|  mail me to sign up for the electronic  
of Mercy FAQ, DISCOG	|  version. issue 2 out Oct 5. featuring interview
and several others...	|  with Andrew Eldritch, lotsa goth reviews and more!
From: sut@dsbc.icl.co.uk (Secure Unix Team KID01)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: Re: New Rubicon / Love Like Blood
Keywords: rubicon, nephilim
Date: 8 Oct 92 10:57:24 GMT
Organization: ICL Bracknell, UK

In article <1992Oct7.160528.19545@arbi.Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE> Boris.Wirtz@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de writes:
>I just listened at my record store to the new releases of Rubicon and
>Love Like Blood.
>
hmm, just a thought, but both these bands have the same names as Killing Joke

cheers
calv
-- 
 Mail:          calvin@zen.icl.co.uk		
 Phone:         Internal: 7241 3898 External: 0782 771000
 Organisation:  International Computers Limited
 Address:       West Avenue, Westfields, Kidsgrove, Staffs, ST7 1TL
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
From: dilts@cheyenne.ucs.indiana.edu
Subject: re:Bauhaus
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 21:36:58 GMT

Yeah, I got it a few days ago as an import (amazingly enough Bloomington  
Indiana can get stuff that you would be amazed at. It's an amazing thing.)  
Any way its a killer twodiscer....reconmended...worth the 30 bucks droped  
into it...

Azarel Osiris
Chris
Dilts@zia.indiana.edu
From: pete@ohm.york.ac.uk (Pete French)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: Marionnettes (was Re: Death - goth, live music etc.)
Date: 15 Oct 92 09:37:00 GMT
Organization: Electronics Department, University of York, UK

From article <719087415.16447@minster.york.ac.uk>, by pete@minster.york.ac.uk:
> Of course, -bat has previously promoted a gig at a 1000 capacity venue
> and got 31 people to turn up, but I'm sure he'd rather hide that
> particular light under a bushel :-)

(bastard!)

That band was, in fact, the Marionnettes. And just to prove that I dont
learn from my mistakes Im going to put them on again in the near future.

For those people who were lamenting the fact that the Marionettes stuff is
unavailable then the good news is that the record company is releasing the
singl ane the album here in the UK (single is already out) and the band are
touring to promote it. There are several confirmed dates, and ad's should be
appearing in the music press soon. Cant remember any of the dates off hand, but
Bristol, Stoke and Nottingham are definitely on the tour. The band should be
on the road any day now (might even have already started in fact, cos theres
nobody in when I ring the last 3 days). They played a one-off at Camden
Palace a couple of weeks back (which I never really got around to reviewing)
that went fairly well - so if your in the UK then watch out for them. They
are also back off touring Germany in the near future...

-bat.

-- 
-Pete French. (the -bat. )    -+
Adaptive Systems Engineering   |
                               +- Tuktusiuriagatigitqingnapinngitkyptinnga!
From: pete@ohm.york.ac.uk (Pete French)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: Re: Please Help
Date: 8 Oct 92 11:21:43 GMT
Organization: Electronics Department, University of York, UK
Followups-To: alt.flame

From article <16900001@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com>, by kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse):
> 
>               Please answer these 9 questions and return.

FLAME ON :

what is this doing in alt.gothic ? Are you specifically interested in the
answers goths might have to these questions - if so then fair enough, but
you didnt give any explanation. If, as I suspect, you just want a spread
of people then *this* *is* *the* *wrong* *place* ! Go and read the
guidelines on posting to appropriate groups.

And apart from that its one of the most poorley written questionaires Ive
seen in a long time... some of the questions have choices that if selected
would be meaningless in the context of the question, others do not have
enough choices to cover all the options, or have options that are going to
lead to misleading results in the end. You have also not considered all the
countries that this questionnaire is going to end up in either.

This is the wrong place for this discussion. Since this is a flame the
followups are being sent to alt.flame

FLAME OFF

(that feels better)

-bat.
-- 
-Pete French. (the -bat. )    -+
Adaptive Systems Engineering   |
                               +- Tuktusiuriagatigitqingnapinngitkyptinnga!
From: voeckler@ipc1.rrzn.uni-hannover.de (Jens Soenke Voeckler)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: Re: New Rubicon / Love Like Blood
Date: 12 Oct 92 12:03:48 GMT
Organization: RVS, Universitaet Hannover, Germany
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

: sut@dsbc.icl.co.uk (Secure Unix Team KID01) writes:
: : In article <841@dsbc.icl.co.uk> Secure Unix Team KID01 <sut@dsbc.icl.co.uk> writes:
: : >In article <1992Oct7.160528.19545@arbi.Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE> Boris.Wirtz@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de writes:
: : >>I just listened at my record store to the new releases of Rubicon and
: : >>Love Like Blood.
: : >>
: : >hmm, just a thought, but both these bands have the same names as Killing Joke
: : 
: : songs! (whoops). "Love like blood" was on Nighttime and 'Rubicon" on Brighter
: : than a Thousand Suns.
: 
: I guess, Boris did not mean Killing Joke; he refers to some German alternative music
                                                              ^^^^^^
I want to apologize for my display of ignorance upon this board. Just cross out the
word "German".
--
Jens-S. V"ockler	InterNet : voeckler@rvs.uni-hannover.dbp.de
			e-mail   : voeckler@ipc1.rrzn.uni-hannover.de
From: P.J.Jeffcock@bradford.ac.uk (Phil Jeffcock)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: Christian Death TouR
Date: 12 Oct 92 09:32:26 GMT
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Originator: phil@christian_death
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

I see that Christian Death are billed to play Manchester International 2 on
25th October. Does anyone know any more dates for the October/November tour
yet by Valor in the UK/Europe?
-- 
Phil Jeffcock (phil@bradford.ac.uk)
Computer Centre, University of Bradford, Bradford, UK. +44.274.383317.
From: nbrao@athena.mit.edu (?????)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: Neon Dream
Date: 10 Oct 92 17:53:12 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Someone was asking about the Sisters bootleg Neon Dream, and I lost their e-mail
address.  I'm not sure whether they were on the Sisters mailing list or had
posted to this newsgroup.  Just wanted to say that Neon Dream is available here
if you're interested.

Nhan
From: pete@ohm.york.ac.uk (Pete French)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: Re: Death - goth, live music etc.
Date: 14 Oct 92 10:02:10 GMT
Organization: Electronics Department, University of York, UK

From article <847@dsbc.icl.co.uk>, by sut@dsbc.icl.co.uk (Secure Unix Team KID01):
> My memory may be a bit rusty but 40 people is more like a full house for
> the Duchess of York. I went to Leeds a couple of years ago and it seemed like
> Goth had died a bit, even the Faversham was different, (used to be the
> watering hole for the Mish).

Nah - it can hold a couple of hundred, of the 40 people there only about
half were actually there for the band, the rest just for curiosity or knowing
one of the support bands. One of the supports was redeption - who were fairly
entertaining... they played "rasputin" (best thing all evening) but I still
think that the joke was lost on a large proportion of the audience.

> Just out of interest but since SoM have been touring have they actually 
> played any gigs back in Leeds, I know that even when the Mish were touring
> around the world they would still play to a private audience at the 
> Warehouse.

Only the two 10th anniversary dates back in '91 as far as I know, there was
supposed to be a secret date in Leeds just before the NEC gig, but it fell
through. They also _may_ have played one just before the Wembley dates back
in '90, I met somebody who met somebody on a train who claims that he went
to the gig (yeah, right... very reliable information).

> calv "don't wear my pointed boots anymore" Austin

-bat. (I dont think you can get pointed clogs :-) )

-- 
-Pete French. (the -bat. )    -+
Adaptive Systems Engineering   |
                               +- Tuktusiuriagatigitqingnapinngitkyptinnga!
From: rji@nyquist.cs.nott.ac.uk (Rob Ingram)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: Re: Christian Death TouR
Date: 12 Oct 92 12:29:28 GMT
Organization: Communications Research Group

In article <1992Oct12.093226.3617@bradford.ac.uk>, P.J.Jeffcock@bradford.ac.uk (Phil Jeffcock) writes:
|> I see that Christian Death are billed to play Manchester International 2 on
|> 25th October. Does anyone know any more dates for the October/November tour
|> yet by Valor in the UK/Europe?
|> -- 

They are playing Nottingham Rock City on Hallowe'en. They are also playing
London at some time too.

			Rob.

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________________
|                       | Rob Ingram                                          |
|  "Hang loose kid!"    | University of Nottingham                            |
|                       | Department of Computer Science                      |
|                       | Nottingham, UK.                                     |
|_______________________|_____________________________________________________|
|                       |      "Women: Can't live with 'em, can't get them    |
|  rji@cs.nott.ac.uk    |       to dress in skimpy leather Nazi outfits"      |
|_______________________|_____________________________________________________|
Xref: sparky alt.censorship:8080 alt.politics.elections:17110
From: jsp@uts.amdahl.com (James Preston)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: [Republicans] On Pornography
Date: 15 Oct 92 23:40:14 GMT
Reply-To: jsp@pls.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


>>>>> "Elf" == Elf Sternberg (elf@halcyon.com)

Elf>    The Commission found no such link.  In fact, their statement on the
Elf> matter concludes: "Even though no visible link between pornography and
Elf> violence was demonstrable in the material presented, COMMON SENSE
Elf> DICTATES that there is a link, yet to be found."  (Emphasis Mine).
Elf> "Common sense."  Horseshit.

Common sense is what tells you that the Earth is flat and at the center
of the Universe.  (Paraphrased from something I read recently somewhere
else on the net that was probably a quotation of somebody.)

--James Preston

Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.politics.elections,uiuc.civil-liberty,alt.sex,rec
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: [Republicans] On Pornography
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 13:10:39 GMT

jfed@athena.mit.edu (Jude G Federspiel) writes:

[...]
>Like what you want, but laws are made to protect the nation and its people,
>and if the state, representing the people, decides something is harmful,
>(theft, murder, fraud, pornography) they can outlaw it (usually with some 
>form of popular consent  :)  Doesn't mean you can't like it, just that 
>they'll do what they can to stop you from producing, using, selling, 
>transporting it.
[...]

So if the state decides that a religion is "harmful", the religion can
be banned? I thought state's authority to outlaw what it considers
harmful was constrained by the Constititution [see refs.].

I find it very distressing that as part of its platform, an American
political party advocates unconstitutional action. (I'm also not too
keen on advocates of censorship, regardless of the censorship's
constitutionally.)

- Carl

======= excerpt ftp.eff.org:pub/academic/law/constitution.us =========
Before [the President-Elect] enter on the execution of his office,
he shall take the following oath or affirmation:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the
office of president of the United States, and will to the best of my
ability, preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the United
States."

[...]

   Section 3.  The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and
the members of the several State legislatures, and all executive
and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the
several States, shall be bound, by oath or affirmation, to support
this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as
a qualification to any office or public trust under the United
States.

[...]

[1st Amendment]
   Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging
the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the
people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for
a redress of grievances.

ANNOTATED REFERENCES

(All these documents are available on-line. Access information follows.)

=================
law/miller
=================
* Expression -- Obscenity -- Law -- Miller

The Supreme Court's definition of obscenity (the so-called _Miller_
test)

=================
=================

These document(s) are available by anonymous ftp (the preferred
method) and by email. To get the file(s) via ftp, do an anonymous ftp
to ftp.eff.org (192.88.144.4), and get file(s):

  pub/academic/law/miller

To get the file(s) by email, send email to archive-server@eff.org.
Include the line(s) (be sure to include the space before the file
name):

send acad-freedom/law miller
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.politics.elections,uiuc.civil-liberty,alt.sex
From: lorenmo@microsoft.com (Loren Moore)
Subject: Re: Brush up your Shakeapeare (was: [Republicans] On Pornography)
Date: 12 Oct 92 18:15:49 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.

In article <1992Oct10.194744.25246@samba.oit.unc.edu> Chuck.Lavazzi@bbs.oit.unc.edu wrote:
> In article <1992Oct10.090816.29978@nwnexus.WA.COM> elf@halcyon.com writes:
> >     Chuck.Lavazzi@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Chuck Lavazzi) writes:
> >
> >>   Actually, Shakespeare is just rattling good theatre, for the most
> >>part.  This "elevate the soul" bulldada comes from people who have never
> >>actually seen or performed the stuff, but have learned that Shakespeare is
> >>a sort of Cultural God -- someone you worship but not enjoy.

stuff deeleeted...

> >
> 	And often hasn't; as I noted in the first post, ol' Willy is one of
> he favorite targets of rightist shcool textbook censors.  
> 	Good thing none of those geeks ever get inside an opera house.
> Imagine what they'd say if they found out what's going on *there* under the
> guise of "art"!!!  Sex. Violence.  Incest.  Sympathetic portrayls of
> prostitution! AIEEEEEEE!!!!!
> 	At times, someone else's ignorance can be bliss for the rest of us...
> >:-)>
> 
> >            Elf !!!
> >-- 
> Chuck
> No .sig, no frills, no foolin'

it might be helpful here to remind ourselves that Shakespeare is (at least
nominally) attributed to having helped translate the King James Version
of the Bible. Check out Psalm 46 (I believe). Count 46 words from the top, 
note the word, count 46 words from the bottom. It spells 'shake spear'.
So, this might be why he is a Cultural God. My question has always been:
Why didn't god strike him dead for tampering with his precious Word?

daemien
/* shake them bag of bones */
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.politics.elections
From: sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart)
Subject: Re: [Republicans] On Pornography
Organization: my opinions only
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 23:08:04 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.103139.11289@waikato.ac.nz> sma@waikato.ac.nz
(Stephen Anderson) writes:

>Fine.  I (and I hope most others) do not care what your personal values are,
>provided that it does not impact on anyone else.

That's how I feel about you.  I don't care whether you like spinach or
whether you dislike spinach.  I object, however, to your attempts to
outlaw spinach, because that would deprive me of my right to eat
spinach.  (For the record, I don't like spinach.)


> there are a very small number
>who will be lead to violence by pornography.

0 is a very small number.

>  I would be prepared to forego
>some minor entertainment to prevent women getting raped - how about you?

How I entertain myself does not affect the number of women getting
raped.

>> Where does anyone else get off saying 'Pornography causes violence'
>> 
>Oh, probably someone who has been looking at some evidence, rather than just
>supporting one's self-interest.

Unfortunately for your cause, there doesn't seem to actually be
anybody like that.  At least, all the evidence found so far doesn't
support your claim.

Seth		sethb@fid.morgan.com
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.society.civil-liberty
From: mgmam@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Mark A. Morrell)
Subject: Re: [Republicans] On Pornography
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 06:44:27 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.030607.12512@athena.mit.edu> jfed@athena.mit.edu.UUCP (Jude G Federspiel) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.165817.29077@news.iastate.edu> tarjan@iastate.edu (Scot 'ONE T!' Kight) writes:
>>
>>
>>I myself am a pacifist, I dont hurt anything (except maybe playing football..)
>>
>>I coud never Kill anything or abuse any one, I have friends who have been
>
>Like what you want, but laws are made to protect the nation and its people,
>and if the state, representing the people, decides something is harmful,
>(theft, murder, fraud, pornography) they can outlaw it (usually with some 
>form of popular consent  :)  
>

The laws seem more to be made to keep the members of Congress in a job.
From what I can see from what they ought to be doing, they need to pass
laws to protect people from each other, not from themselves.  As long as
I'm not hurting anyone else, keep your laws to yourself.

>>Where does anyone else get off saying 'Pornography causes violence'
>
>If you can do an unbiased study, and show a causal relationship, then
>saying that seems perfectly reasonable to me.  I don't know if this has
>ever been done, but I can understand that relationship myself, even if
>I can't prove/show it beyond a shadow of a doubt.
>

The government did an unbiased study.  The results didn't come out the
way the people who were doing the study wanted them to, so they didn't
get a lot of publicity.  While pornographic films which included
violence did incite people to more violence, pornographic films which
did not include violence didn't have any effect on violent attitudes,
including rape, et al.  So the discovery came out that yes, violence can
cause violence, but pornography does not cause violence (perhaps it
simply causes more pornography?)  I don't remember where I read the
study, I think I was doing a paper for a class.

>>What a joke..
>>Tarjan@iastate.edu
>>No I am not a demopublican either, nor a republican, nor a liberitarian.
>
>Whew!  and I was starting to be concerned! :)

I know very little about politics, but my friends tell me I'm a
libertarian (whatever that means).

Mark Morrell
Xref: sparky alt.censorship:7968 alt.sex:32351 alt.sex.stories.d:317 comp.misc:3926 rec.arts.books:17991
From: compton@plains.NoDak.edu (Curtis M. Compton)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.sex,alt.sex.stories.d,comp.misc,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Suggestions Wanted: Public Domain Erotica/Censored Material for
Date: 8 Oct 92 19:35:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.21065
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure
	John Cleland
-- 
Curtis M. Compton                | "Am I actually evil, or do I just have a
compton@plains.NoDak.edu         |  very strong chaotic streak?"
---------------------------------+
Master of Penguins               |                 - Curtis M. Compton
Future home of Rookerie Software |                   sometime last week
Newsgroups: alt.censorship
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: [alt.feminism, et al.] Re: MacKinnon Legislation Based on Urban Legends?
Followup-To: alt.censorship,alt.feminism,alt.folklore.urban
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 05:02:11 GMT

[A repost - Carl]

Newsgroups: alt.feminism,alt.folklore.urban
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Citecheck Hell)
Subject: Re: MacKinnon Legislation Based on Urban Legends?
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 21:25:36 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.184942.4243@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>The important question is not whether this is an Urban Legend, as it plainly
>seems to be one.
>
>The important question is, exactly what role does this little fable play in
>MacKinnon's Morality Play??

In one of her books MacKinnon makes the snuff film claims -- that a
portion of the pornography industry is devoted to actually murdering
women.  She even footnotes it, but the footnote (hidden in the back of
the book) merely cites:

- Arlen Specter on the Senate floor claiming that snuff films are a 
  national disgrace, and
- a California case where two teens murdered a woman and at one point
  confessed making a videotape of it, though the videotape was never
  found.

No doubt, Specter will cite to MacKinnon next time he makes a speech
about snuff films.  The California case obviously doesn't count.

Still, it's not as ludicrous as MacKinnon's claim that a double-digit
percentage of women work as prostitutes at one point in their lives.
-- 
ted frank | thf2@midway.uchicago.edu 
also at quibeaux@uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
ajax crypto-analyzer -- warning! remove all chicken bones first
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.politics.elections