From: murray@what.gmr.com (Brian Murray)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Violent Crime (WAS Re: Which form for children?)
Date: 13 Aug 92 13:51:35 GMT
Organization: GM Research Labs, Warren, MI

In article <1992Aug13.043121.10985@unixland.natick.ma.us>, Mark Urbin writes:
>In article <88315@rphroy.ph.gmr.com> murray@what.gmr.com (Brian Murray) writes:
>[snip]
>>5) Finally, they have a tendency toward massive use of deadly force.
>>Revenge "hits" (and there is a high proclivity toward revenge) are
>>rarely done by lone killers.  The usual killing is done by a gang of
>>people driving up in a car and spraying bullets from semi- and
>>fully-automatic weapons.  This tends to kill at least as many
>>bystanders as targets.
>>
>>In Detroit, thanks to the mayor, there is little effective gun
>>control.  However, the average adult citizen is not nearly so well
>>armed as the average teenager.
>   Please define "effective gun control".  In New York City it is very
>difficult for citizens to legally obtain any kind of firearm.  Practically
>impossible to get get a pistol.  This does not stop gangers from obtaining
>firearms anymore than anti-drug laws stop them from getting cocaine.
>BTW, can you name a single state were it is legal for someone under 21 to
>own a pistol?  There are already laws against those well armed teenagers you
>talk about.  An attempt should be made to enforce current laws rather than
>toss laws on top of old ones.

I did not mean for this to turn into another gun control thread.  My
original point was that desperate people are unpredictable and not
easily motivated by fear to turn from aggression, and that they do not
have to be experienced criminals to get this way.  My point about
massive use of force was a related one to illustrate how dangerous
kids could be.  I probably should have left it out.

However, since you addressed it, so as to not be misunderstood, let me
say that I do not have strongly held opinions on gun control and I am
not (currently) advocating more laws.  I respect arguments on both
sides of the issue.  One argument against gun control is that law
abiding citizens should be allowed to own guns as protection against
criminals - who, as you point out, can always obtain them, illegally
if necessary.  This view is held by the mayor of Detroit.  As a
result, there is no effective CAMPAIGN for gun control in Detroit.
The citizens can arm themselves, and frequently do.  However, this
does not seem to deter the desperate kids, which was my main point.

>  An interesting tactic is being used in Oakland, CA against gangers.  It's
>called peer pressure.  There is a popular radio talk show that talks to
>gangers about values and not getting killed over petty shit.  It seems to be
>doing more to combat gang violence than the Oakland PD (at least according
>to the NPR story that covered it).

That is an interesting tactic.  I think that there are a lot of things
that could be done.  Maybe we should have a newsgroup
soc.letsave-kids...

brian

-- 
Brian T. Murray				murray@gmr.com		
GM Research Labs			lauren@caen.umich.edu

My opinions are my own
When -$2B <= profits <= $4B, you really don't care about individual opinions

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts