HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kschudt@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Karl C Schudt)
Subject: Re: What do we really want?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 07:47:26 GMT

In article <1gei4kINNih6@manuel.anu.edu.au> Lubosh <ljh655@cscgpo.anu.edu.au> w
rites:
>In article <223-PCNews-124beta@ccs.covici.com> John Covici,
>covici@ccs.covici.com writes:
>>                - If You Want to Feed Somalia, -
>>                - You Must Demand Development! -
>Thanks John for your posting. However, to me it seems to be even more
>demanding question for Christians in the more developed countries. Let's
>just try to simplify these things for a while. There is a level of the
>living standard in every country. Some countries are very high, some are
>very low, and some are "below zero" (like Somalia) - it means they can't
>even find anything to eat, and they starve. So what we do is we feed them
>to keep them alive for a little while longer... Or to those who are
>rapidly falling down towards the "zero" level an aid is sent to "hang on"
>for some time... Isn't this just an excuse to enjoy our lives without
>feeling the pain of the others? We don't want our neighbours to be
>starving, but we always want to be better off than they are. Anyway, I
>think the demand of development is the only reasonable one in this time.
>There should be even more than that. Jesus demands more. The righteous
>move from the rich countries would be to find a way to level the living
>standards - to lower their own in order to increase those of the poor
>countries. Unfortunately we can't get everybody to agree with that (I bet
>not even the Christians), so the demand for development is very good. But
>let's also add this time "We want them to develop up to our own level,
>not just to make them feed themselves. We don't want any more poor and
>rich countries anymore, we want to be equal..." Well, it doesn't sound to
>be very probable, because the rich parts of the world do need some other
>countries to be poor in order to stay rich...
>Anyway, just a thought...
>Yours in Christ,
>Lubosh

 Sorry, Lubosh, but no "rich" country needs another country to stay poor. A 
"rich" country, such as the US, needs markets for its products! Somalia buys 
*NOTHING* (or next to nothing) from the US, and sells no goods to us. The best 
thing for everyone concerned is if the third world gets rich, and we stay rich!
     Look around the world for the countries that can't feed their people and 
despoil their environments. You will not find a single free-market economy in 
the whole lot. (For those of you saying the US pollutes, true, but we don't 
do anything near what Brazil and Romania and the former USSR did.)
     I'm all for development, but lets get them sold on our system. 
Free-markets work! It would be the best possible thing to happen to thethird 
world, right after their immediate food needs are met.

Anyway, Merry Christmas!!!!!!
Karl Schudt
Newsgroups: alt.activism,ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
From: goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman)
Subject: Re: Somalia an Arab country??? no! [was: It's Blood for Oill, again.]
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:21:39 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

In article <92Dec11.183431est.152@orasis.vis.toronto.edu> liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu) writes:
>In article <Bz4AL4.G81@apollo.hp.com> goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec10.063330.4065@ousrvr.oulu.fi> dfo@tko.vtt.fi (Foxvog Douglas) writes:
>>>In article <ByyuBE.2G2@apollo.hp.com> goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman) writes:
>>>>    Somalia is an Arab country. a full-fledged member of the Arab League, 
>>>
>>>According to the CIA World Fact Book, about 0.5% of the population of
>>>Somalia is Arab (30,000 out of 6.x million).  Under Siad Barre the
>>>official language was Somali, which the vast majority of the people 
>>>speak.  Arabic, English and Italian are also spoken there.  If you have
>>>seen any photos of the feeding centers or the population of Mogadishu
>>>you would have been unable to see any Arab faces.  The people are
>>>standard sub-Saharan African, i.e. black.
>>
>>    Don't let racial stereotypes interfere with the learning process:
>>
>>    Here's a definition taken from The American Heritage Dictionary:
>>
>>    Arab    1. A native or inhabitant of Arabia
>>            2. Any of a Semitic people originally from Arabia but later
>>               widely scattered throughout the Near East, North Africa,
>>               and the Arabian Peninsula [including Somalia].
>                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>					   ?????????????????
>
>Somalia is NOT on the Arabian Peninsula. It's across Red Sea or
>Indian Ocean from the Arabian Peninsula.  
>It is not part of Near East, or North Africa, it is located in 
>East Africa south of the Saharan desert.  

    I was referring to the popular Somalian legend that they all
    descended from one man by the name Samaali (sp?) who came
    from the Arabian Peninsula.

    At any rate, whether Somalia is an Arab country is not as
    important as the fact that it is a member of the Arab League -
    an organization that has its own peace-keeping forces as well
    as financial resources required to underwrite a police action
    in Somalia.








-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Follow the money."                             Other opinions are mine.
 Deep Throat                                    Disclaimer: 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky alt.activism:19666 alt.current-events.somalia:614
From: johnch@test22.sun.com (Where are the Prawns?)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.current-events.somalia
Subject: Re: Spaying and neutering alles!!!
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:26:12
Organization: Impossible Missions Force
	<1992Dec15.153604.13857@usceast.cs.scarolina.edu>
	<1992Dec17.054410.20253@den.mmc.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: test22
In-reply-to: whitmeye@den.mmc.com's message of Thu, 17 Dec 1992 05:44:10 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.054410.20253@den.mmc.com> whitmeye@den.mmc.com (Richard Whitmeyer 865-8497) writes:

   Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.current-events.somalia
Path: smaug.West.Sun.COM!west.West.Sun.COM!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!news.den.mmc.com!whitmeye
   From: whitmeye@den.mmc.com (Richard Whitmeyer 865-8497)
   Originator: whitmeye@surf
   Sender: news@den.mmc.com (News)
   Nntp-Posting-Host: surf
   Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics, Denver
   References: <Bz9vK3.MJ2@apollo.hp.com> <1992Dec15.010009.4765@wam.umd.edu> <1992Dec15.153604.13857@usceast.cs.scarolina.edu>
   Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 05:44:10 GMT
   Lines: 68
   Xref: smaug.West.Sun.COM alt.activism:12604 alt.current-events.somalia:277


   In article <1992Dec15.153604.13857@usceast.cs.scarolina.edu>, ausdal@ece.scarolina.edu (Thi Van Ausdal) writes:
   |> rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes:
   |> 
   |> >	Christ, why should we pay to feed a bunch
   |> >	of people who haven't figured out that ol' equation:
   |> > 
   |> >	Don't have more kids than you can feed. 
   |> >	Survival of the fittest, I say.  Good riddance.
   |> 

Has *this* country figured this out?  The per capita rate of resource
use in the U.S. has to be a few orders of magnitude greater than what
it is in Somalia.  We appear to "need" to chew up virgin forest here
and abroad and spew greenhouse and ozone-destroying gases into the
air, etc., in order to support our population in the style to which it
has become accustomed.  One American consumes what n Somalis consume,
and n is at least 10 and probably closer to 100.  There may be a
higher birth rate there, but the resource-use multiplier has to be
considered also.  U.S.-style resource use is unsustainable, and
someday the Martians or the Klingons or whatever will be saying, "

	Christ, why should we pay to feed a bunch
	of people who haven't figured out that ol' equation:

	Don't have more kids than you can feed. 
	Survival of the fittest, I say.  Good riddance."
	
Or we could wise up.

John C
Xref: sparky alt.activism:19539 bit.listserv.catholic:3346
From: Lubosh <ljh655@cscgpo.anu.edu.au>
Newsgroups: alt.activism,bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: What do we really want?
Date: 13 Dec 1992 05:36:20 GMT
Organization: ANU
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.49.21
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
X-XXDate: Sun, 13 Dec 92 00:36:46 GMT

In article <223-PCNews-124beta@ccs.covici.com> John Covici,
covici@ccs.covici.com writes:
>                - If You Want to Feed Somalia, -
>                - You Must Demand Development! -
Thanks John for your posting. However, to me it seems to be even more
demanding question for Christians in the more developed countries. Let's
just try to simplify these things for a while. There is a level of the
living standard in every country. Some countries are very high, some are
very low, and some are "below zero" (like Somalia) - it means they can't
even find anything to eat, and they starve. So what we do is we feed them
to keep them alive for a little while longer... Or to those who are
rapidly falling down towards the "zero" level an aid is sent to "hang on"
for some time... Isn't this just an excuse to enjoy our lives without
feeling the pain of the others? We don't want our neighbours to be
starving, but we always want to be better off than they are. Anyway, I
think the demand of development is the only reasonable one in this time.
There should be even more than that. Jesus demands more. The righteous
move from the rich countries would be to find a way to level the living
standards - to lower their own in order to increase those of the poor
countries. Unfortunately we can't get everybody to agree with that (I bet
not even the Christians), so the demand for development is very good. But
let's also add this time "We want them to develop up to our own level,
not just to make them feed themselves. We don't want any more poor and
rich countries anymore, we want to be equal..." Well, it doesn't sound to
be very probable, because the rich parts of the world do need some other
countries to be poor in order to stay rich...
Anyway, just a thought...
Yours in Christ,
Lubosh
From: lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: Must reading for paranoids
Keywords: cia, rockefeller, rothschild, morgentheau, hapsburg
Date: 18 Dec 92 19:01:29 GMT

Don't forget now...there is also Philip Agee, and John
Coleman...now along with Dr Beter (deceased) and Lyndon
LaRouch...and more...and they are all saying the same thing!

Now I wonder who is wrong? Golly gee..could it be the college
student? NAH! Of course the gvt has told us the complete 100%
truth of our history as it concerns other nations and of
course they have told us everything as it concerns internal
affais....after all it's in black and white in our
gvt-sponsored history text books so it MUST be true right?!

Get a clue!  Do you recognize the above names in the keyword
line and can you tell us something about say...hapsburg? If
you can't then maybe you should read the Beter articles and
the document Holy Blood/Holy Grail available in any good
bookstore in the history or archeology sections. Do you know
where in the world the Khazarian province is and of which
nation and continent? Do you know what a real jew is versus an
adopted one? And can you tell us who the real jews of the
world are? Please ...get a clue! No insults intended here.

Len
--
*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*
The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very
use of the law is the instrument of illegality.
		-- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: Spaying and neutering alles!!!
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:16:06 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.161152.2066@wam.umd.edu> rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes:
>	We're waging a military operation to restore the
>	flow of R E L I E F supplies.  Doesn't anyone else see 
>	anything wrong with this?  Christ, all these people saying
>	the problem is the warlords and so on--the problem isn't 
>	them, the problem is that THE LAND CAN'T SUPPORT THEM.  If it 
>	could, there wouldn't be relief supplies to block.  

Not true.  The fighting not only makes it hard to get relief supplies in, but
also is one of the reasons they _need_ relief supplies in the first place:
war makes it hard to grow things.
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,bit.listserv.catholic
From: HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: A pacifist's call for conditional support for US action in Somalia
Date: 18 Dec 1992 21:14:41 GMT
Organization: University of Houston Administrative Computing
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: uhad2.admin.uh.edu
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <1992Dec18.202245.6709@mont.cs.missouri.edu> dfo@tko.vtt.fi writes:

[some deletions]

> The publicly announced objectives and reasons for the action DO make
> sense and are appropriate.  I support them while opposing any hidden
> agenda for a permanent US presence in the area.  I would urge all others
> who have a fully justified opposition to US military actions to take
> similar positions.  
> 
> By opposing this because of what might later occur, you lose strength.
> Support this action while linking your support to a reasoned opposition
> to expansion to the activities you fear and you will greatly gain
> credibility for your positions.
> 
> I understand and sympathise with those posters who oppose this action
> for what may be behind it or what it may be converted into (although not
> with those who oppose it because they don't want to spend money to feed
> people).  But i ask them to look a little further and to conditionally
> support this for what it officially is, while opposing
> any expansion.

  Well said, Doug. Even being one of your (sometime) net.opponents and the 
young/old Cold Warrior that I am, *this* is a statement I can support whole-
heartedly.  I see no need to pursue any ulterior motives in Somalia.  We just
need to help these people (and accept the possible consequences of that aid)
and then take our leave, riding off into the sunset.  We don't need any bases
or anything else.


semper fi,

Jammer Jim Miller 
Texas A&M University '89 and '91
********************************************************************************
* Speak for my employers?  They don't even know I exist!		       *
*"Become one with the Student Billing System. *BE* the Student Billing System."*
* "Power finds its way to those who take a stand.  Stand up, Ordinary Man."    *
*      ---Rik Emmet, Gil Moore, Mike Levine: Triumph 		               *
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.conspiracy,alt.discrimination
From: bobh@troy.cc.bellcore.com (hettmansperger,robert)
Subject: Re: Rape After Rape After Rape
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 19:02:46 GMT

In article <BzGoKJ.6wt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning) writes:
>bfrg9732@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Brian F. Redman) writes:
>
>>imran@mbcl.rutgers.edu writes:
>
>
>>>Hello,
>
>>>	What follows is an article from the New York Times.  Why am I posting
>>>it here?  I feel that some of the issues pertain to at least some of the
>>>threads I have seen in this group (and the other groups that I am posting to).
>>>The article is about the calculated destruction of the Bosnian Muslims.  The
>>>article contains extremely graphic descriptions of brutality, torture, and
>>>rape.  
>
>>I refer you to World War I and the infamous "Rape of the Belgium Nuns."
>>At that time similar allegations were trumpeted in this country. Predictably,
>
>[...]
>
>Are you saying its untrue, or just closing your eyes and ears?
>

Is it possible to just be skeptical?  

You don't even have to go back to WWI to find such stories.  Remember the 
stories about the cruel Iraqi soldiers taking babies from the incubators
and just leaving them to die?

Blindly accepting such stories may be "closing your eyes and ears" just as
much as blindly rejecting them. 

-Bob
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.current-events.somalia
From: davei@wam.umd.edu (The One True Dave)
Subject: Re: Don't be silly, please
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 02:50:08 GMT

In article <BzFALC.EMr@news.cso.uiuc.edu> bfrg9732@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Brian F. Redman) writes:
>davei@wam.umd.edu (The One True Dave) writes:
>
>>In article <4z-r5==@dixie.com> karl@dixie.com (Karl Klingman) writes:
>
>[...stuff deleted...]
>
>>Your cynicism is duly noted. However, your paranoia has
>>blotted out your view of reality. The people who run this
>>country are human beings, with human emotions. I understand
>>that most people see the US government as a bunch of evil
>>plotters in revolving conspiracies plotting to dehumanize
>>and control every person on the planet. Actually, they're
>>just a bunch of people trying to do a difficult job and,
>>more often than not, doing a good job in general with a
>>few errors that people love to point out as proof of their
>>foul intentions.
>
>Hmmm.... how about this... let's go back to the 30's and 40's
>in Nazi Germany. We can transpose your statements from above
>into this new locale. The people who were running Germany were
>human beings with human emotions also. The top level of their
>government was what I would define as evil -- genocide on such
>a huge scale would definitely qualify them for that. Of course,
>one could say that they were "...just a bunch of people trying
>to do a difficult job..." One could even argue that "gee whiz,
>they were efficient" or, as you put it, "...more often than
>not, doing a good job in general with a few errors that people
>love to point out [the meanies!]" So, transposing your argument
>to a new locale it is quite easy to declare "Hey, we were just
>following orders."
>
>

Wait. Reality check. 

Despite some very well crafted propaganda in that paragraph,
the United States is NOTHING like Nazi Germany. The Nazi's
policies were control by terror and superiority of the so-
called Aryan race. These were not hidden from anybody, they
were preached as a platform. (Yes, people actually supported
a group that said "We will control this country by terror!")

As far as I know, the United States hasn't set up any death 
camps in Somalia. They haven't round up and deported anybody.
They don't plan on staying in Somalia any more than they planned
to stay in Bagdhad, they certainly don't plan on basing the 
economy on the Napoleonic principles of the Nazi's (conquering
land to feed the people, works great until you run out of easy
places to conquer.) If the US were ANYTHING like Nazi Germany,
we would have invaded Mexico and most of South America, and we'd
be attacking Canada by now. 

And, as a matter of fact, the Nazis were, basically, just human
beings. Sick, twisted, and sad human beings, but human beings.
Most of them simply lacked the will to fight for what was right.
But at least they didn't twist doing what's right and spit on those
who fight for what they believe in. That takes a truly sad 
individual.
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: elambert@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Eber Lambert)
Subject: Re: Snapple - Does it really go public Tuesday?
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:42:11 GMT

prs9k@brain.med.virginia.edu (Phil Scarr) writes:

>In article <BzBB4n.IxL@taligent.com> cep@taligent.com (Christophe Pettus) writes:
>>Does anyone have firm information about the supposed connection between
>>Snapple and anti-choice groups?  Rumours have been circulating for months,
>>but I've never seen anything concrete.

>It doesn't surprise me give that they advertise on Rush Limbaugh...

>	-Phil

yeah but the also advertised on Howard Sterns TV show            

eel
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: New movement
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 14:53:30 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <92345.042100NMR103@psuvm.psu.edu> NMR103@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>In article <1992Dec9.175528.2104@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>, (this is
>paraphrased) a new movement of those from the "FAR RIGHT" is
>proposed. (Basically ultra-conservative extremists).

Nicole, you have been listening to your own paranoid fantasies for way
too long.  The article you refer to is an obvious spoof/sarcasm.

>A few problems with your articles, though -

>>Article 1 - to spread the truth... no matter who it offends...

>     the Republicans don't do that. What about the US's decision
>to block all foreign medical journals from US citizen readership,
>so that we can't find out the latest research in psychoactive drugs?

This is an obvious lie.  Just walk into any major library and you will
find plenty of foreign medical journals.

>What about Partnership for a Drug-Free America, whose commercials
>on TV were taken off the air because they gave the wrong impression
>of marijuana to the public (the commercial said that mj fries your
>brain, researchers disagreed and ordered the ad off the air).

Another obvious lie - since when have researchers had the power to
order commercials off the air?

>-Nicole

Nicole, you seem to be a big fan of drugs.  Perhaps you are living
proof that marijuana really does fry your brain.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.current-events.somalia
From: idjohnst@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca (Ian Johnston)
Subject: Re: Spaying and neutering alles!!!
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:09:45 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.153604.13857@usceast.cs.scarolina.edu> ausdal@ece.scarolina.edu (Thi Van Ausdal) writes:
>rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes:
>	That's cool, we have B-52's and all the 500-lb. bombs we need to
>barbecue half the country and feed the rest with them. 
>		END WORLD HUNGER
>			KILL ALL THE STARVING PEOPLE.

   I sincerely hope that you are kidding.

   Ian.


Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.conspiracy,alt.discrimination
From: gwigley@igc.apc.org (Griff Wigley)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Local crime prevention projects
Date: 16 Dec 92 22:11:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1296500457:000:684
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!gwigley    Dec 16 14:11:00 1992


An upcoming issue of Utne Reader will focus on crime in North
America and the impact it's having on us.

We're interested in listing a wide variety of innovative,
locally-based programs and projects which are currently
addressing the factors that contribute to crime -- giving
people hope that things can be different.

If you know of or are involved in such efforts, please contact
us.  Include a short descriptive paragraph or two along with
who to contact and how.  The deadline for us to receive
information is 3:00 PM CST, Friday, Dec 18, 1992.

Thanks.


Griff Wigley
Utne Reader
1624 Harmon Place, Suite 330
Minneapolis, MN  55403
Voice: 612/338-5040
Email: utnereader@igc.org