HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: "Anger and Regret in Aspen as Boycott Grows"
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 23:14:17 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <1992Dec30.212247.23843@lclark.edu>, snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil
Snodgrass) wrote:

> P.S.  Colorado, like most states is having a ruff time financially
> with funding their state government.  They also passed some sort
> of spending or tax cap.  So they want money..  There main tax is 
> the SALES TAX!!!!  So if you don't go to Colorado you will 
> be hurting the state purese strings....  Let me see if you go for
> a weekend and spend $1,000 there you will be donating $60-$70
> dollars to the state tresurary....remember the state treasury owned
> by the 53% of the people who don't want your kind.......
> 
> Don't help fund a bigoted state!!!

P.P.S.  Colorado, unlike most states, is ranked as having the third
strongest economic recovery in the nation (the first two being the
Dakotas...).  This boycott reminds me of the Queer Nation boycott
against that retailer that someone mentioned earlier.  The one
where, in a year, there was a gain of one third in the value
of the stock.  It would make for a *perfect* Monty Python skit.

MP:  Right.  Here we are at the headquarters of Queer Nation, which
     is in the midst of a boycott against Nasty Evil, Inc.  Tell
     me, is it true that you purchased several thousand shares of
     stock in Nasty Evil, such that you could disrupt board meetings?

QN:  Well, yes, actually.  That is true.

MP:  And is it also true that the value of this stock has increased
     over thirty-three percent?

QN:  Yes, well, that is true.

MP:  And during the period of this rise, is it true that you were
     engaged in a boycott of Nasty Evil?

QN:  Yes.  Quite.

MP:  And so you returned a capital gain of nearly thirty-five percent
     over the period of one year?

QN:  Yes.  Actually, we've rather decided to go into the investment
     banking business.  You know, as a hobby, if you will.

MP:  Yes.  Quite.

*X*
(California, by the way, is dead last - the irony, of course, being
that Babs Boxcar is a rabid proponent of just the policies responsible
for landing the state in that sorry position.  It would appear
that the Politically Incorrect may be bearing crosses of gold...)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mritchie@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael S Ritchie)
Subject: Johnny Mathis
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 00:49:12 GMT

Was it my imagination, or did Johnny Mathis look mighty hot and
dreamy on the Ed Sullivan Holiday special Sunday night?  Poor
Roy Rogers and Dale Evans were in even worse shape than that
old holiday drag Bob Hope; their manager should be shot for allowing
them to perform live.  But I saw Johnny Mathis in a whole new
light--besides looking better than I've ever seen him, he
sounded mighty good, too.  Apparently he came out in the Advocate
years ago and made no waves whatsoever.  Does anyone know if he
still releases albums on a regular basis?  Can anyone recommend
something for a relative novice?--the only thing I own by him is
The Broadway Album, which he did shortly after La Striesand did
hers.
Thanks, and Noel,
--Michael
From: pauli@sgi.com (Paul Isaacs)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: pounding the "10%" figure into the ground: Nature, 12/3/92
Date: 30 Dec 92 18:46:39 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniblab.asd.sgi.com

In article <thaaang.725703515@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>	'Say a Little Prayer'
>
>Sweet sugar, pumping through my veins, everywhere is on a wire.
>Sweet sugar - you say it's just a game, soon to be your one desire.
>When the devil holds your hand, then you know he's in command
>of temptation.
>Like the beauty of a rose, or a summer that will go, where's salvation?
>
>Say a little prayer, say a little prayer for me.
>Say a little prayer, say a little prayer for me.
>
>Sweet sugar, your world just tumbles down, how you hunger for illusion.
>Sweet sugar, will take more than you own, all you have is your confusion.
>You'll be standing in the rain, you'll be crying out in shame, for mercy.
>So you turn to every man, say you need a helping hand, don't desert me.
>
>(chorus.)
>
>I don't know what I've done with my life,
>I don't want to think of all this wasted time.
>I was in search of paradise, yet this seems a heavy price to pay.
>
>(chorus, chorus, chorus.)
>
>Isn't that awful? It's just lots of phrases. 


Sounds like it's about gettin' hooked on heroin to me.
Doesn't sound random at all.

pauli.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@aix02.ecs.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: URGENT: European Commission Appointment
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 03:23:45 GMT

rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:

>>So, anyone know if the "Irish Jesse Helms" was made EC Commissioner for
>>Social Affiars or not?

>Yes -- it was announced last week (:-()

*sigh*

So, do we have an address at the Ec that we can write and express our 
displeasure? Isn't it Jacques Delors who picks which portfolio each 
Commissioner gets? Anyone have HIS address?

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C. in '93!''
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
``The Rodney King jury has re-examined the Zapruder footage and has decided
that JFK's injuries were self-inflicted.'' -- joke in the Village Voice.
From: tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Cretin Visitors (was Re: Private antidiscrimination)
Date: 4 Jan 93 00:19:34 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <1993Jan3.211331.20334@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>bashing and murder occur here too, laws or no laws, witness
>a particularly grisly execution-style murder not long ago,
>the perpetrator of which told the police right out that he
>came here from the Twin Cities "to kill fags." He has been
>sent to prison, but he will get out, one day.

Well, you know why some of the more gruesome killers never make parol?
There are crying relatives and friends who come forth and claim that
they are still sick... added to the psych reports from caring doctors.
Of course in this case, I doubt if anyone will even bother... sad
truth in many of these types of cases.


-- 
|Tom Barrett (TDBear), Sr. Engineer|tom.barrett@amd.com|v:512-462-6856 |
|AMD PCD MS-520 | 5900 E. Ben White|Austin, TX  78741  |f:512-462-5155 |
|"No is yes, And we're all free"   |CO made a #2 no-no... PU!          |
|My views are my own and may not be the same as the company of origin  |
From: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: How did you find soc.motss?
Date: 21 Dec 1992 19:32:12 GMT
Organization: sgi
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
NNTP-Posting-Host: tattoo.mti.sgi.com


I find soc.motss about the same.


FWA
From: dk24+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Jason Kyle)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: LOOKIN' FOR NYC QUEERS...
Date: 23 Dec 92 06:00:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.wfC8opu00iV1Q14dMf
	<1h9mq7INNcs@rave.larc.nasa.gov>
Distribution: world
Organization: Office of Technology Transfer, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

gentle readers...

just heard an incredibly funny piece on NPR this morning called
Santaland Diaries and it was written and read by a guy named David
Sadaris.  

There was a bit of queer content, and the endnote was that he currently
works  in NYC (actually cleaning apartments), so I thought I'd ask...if
any of y'all in NYC know this guy or how to get in touch w/ him, please
let me know; I'd like to find out how to get some more of his writing.

So,

if any of y'all can help me, please drop me a line...and Happy Holiday
of Your Choice...

-= DJK
From: osborn@cs.utexas.edu (John Howard Osborn)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Small grooming question
Date: 28 Dec 1992 11:16:07 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: im4u.cs.utexas.edu

I know this probably isn't strictly a .motss issue, but so be it.

My lover and I like it when I keep my head shaved smooth, but the
mechanics are kinda tough.  Knowing that various motssketeers out
there do the same thing, could you let us in on what kind of
razor (or electric) you use, how you keep from cutting yourself,
how you keep from missing spots, etc?

Right now, I can't seem to figure out how to do it myself without
most of the above happening so we only do it once it a while.
We'd like to make it permanent but obviously can't until I can
do it myself.  Help?

-- 
-
-John H. Osborn                     - Boycott Colorado
-osborn@cs.utexas.edu               - Enforced discrimination MUST NOT STAND
-DOD# 2001  '92 BMW Paris-Dakar     - Queer, Proud, and Angry
From: owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: A Better Year Ahead
Date: 21 Dec 92 20:39:03 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.054427.18239@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> 
> As is obvious from recent discussions, I've been concerned
> that 1993 should be a better year than 1992 was in and for
> soc.motss.

A concern that has apparently spontaneously combusted in quite a few 
folks vicinity. :-)

> In addition to the possibility of splitting soc.motss into
> several newsgroups, along the lines presently being
> discussed, there is the issue of vigilance about
> cross-posting, which way more than half the time raises the
> heat without raising the light.

having ignored the common sense of such vigilance , and often gone against
my own best judgement in order to tweak some jerk for my own tawdry
pleasure, I would like to publicly apologise to my peers for my
behavior.

> But there are other issues to be worked out too.  I see
> these as including, but not limited to:

>    There's close to
>    complete consensus, I think, that we need greater
>    inclusiveness than that.  Strictly for economy, lots of
>    us say LGB or LGBO to refer to the cohort.  But unless
>    you're already familiar with that acronym, it's every bit
>    as opaque as motss.  That's why I currently favor
>    soc.lesbigay.

as do I.

> -  Several posters make regular appearances here *primarily*
>    as harassers.  This includes the recently present Clayton
>    Cramer and Phil Ronzone.  *Long* experience has shown
>    there's little or no point in engaging such people in
>    debate or other discussion.  I think it's an individual
>    judgment call what to do, if anything, about that, but my
>    own inclination is to refuse to let them co-opt my
>    energies.

debate and disscussion can only take place between people who
accept each other as peers.
Individuals who will not engage individuals as individuals, and
persistently harrass soc.motss as impersonal *others* are not debating
or disscussing anything, they are molesting us, and the only way
to deal with such people is to * just say NO*

>    it seems to me that at a minimum we can agree that
>    who and what we are is not an appropriate debate.  To
>    that end, perhaps we should now create and ratify a
>    formal charter, and when people post inappropriate things
>    here, send it to them with some form of cease and desist
>    message.

yes , yes , yes 

how best shall we accomplish this, whta sort of official recognition
can be codified?

LUX ./. owen
--
D. Owen Rowley {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen

  " It will be a cold March 17th that I celebrate the imposition of
	Romes rule, on Pagan Ireland. Erin go ppphhhhhttttttt! "
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden)
Subject: Re: EE statements (was: Re: Attention Skiers Boycotting Colorado)
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, Ca.
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 23:43:20 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1htacqINN7mr@hp-col.col.hp.com> smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:

   Because I've never seen it, my wife (who works in HR) has never seen 
   it, and I've never heard about any.  Can you give details?  I don't want 
   to put you out or fill up your time, but I would be curious to see 
   this in action, since it's something I've never seen before.  Especially 
   the hospital and HP, since I work there....IBM, well, they're having 
   enough problems...;-)

How large a company does your wife work for?

I work with HR on a constant basis, and the experiences reported to me
(by employees and by HR) are quite different from yours.
--

  - Ronald Hayden

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
   | Documentation Manager, Oracle Toolkit Group                    |
   | Co-chair of Oracle Lambda, Oracle's Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual group |
   | Writer, magician, and various other things                     |
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
From: smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Attention Skiers Boycotting Colorado
Date: 31 Dec 1992 00:25:03 GMT
Organization: Colorado Springs IT Center
NNTP-Posting-Host: fajita19.cs.itc.hp.com

mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
> because I am so FUCKING TIRED of blubbering socialiste faggots
                                      ^
                                      |
My macro is multiplying like a rabbit...:-)  (<- for the humor impaired) 

> I sure as HELL trust that large corporations will be less
> affected by the BLOW-HARD winds of POLITICAL FASHION - one way
> or the OTHER - than any God-damn LEGISLATION.

True, true.   Businesses want stablility, and politicians only 
seem to want whatever will satisfy the loudest special-interest...

Walter
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: long-term relationships...success stories, please...
Date: 27 Dec 92 14:36:08 GMT
Organization: (getting there)



bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:
  >>Finally, sometime between 7 and 10 years you will resign yourself
  >>to hearing the following question every evening for the rest of your 
  >>life: "I dunno, what do YOU want to do for dinner?"
rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
 >I guess Dan and I have packed a decade worth of living into the past year.
 >Then again, time flies when you're having fun...

Maybe it's just a straight couple thing, but I-- ahem-- have it on
good authority that there comes a point for some couples where they
get past this point by finding weekly rituals.  You know-- Tuesday
night is always Chinese from the restaurant on the corner.

It means that you have to go through the "Idunno,whatdoYOUwant..."
routine six nights a week, tops.
-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Manifesto (LONG) Society to Cut Up Bigotted AssholesDIR
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 14:22:45 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.165250.13277@bsu-ucs> d000dlphi@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (David Speakman) writes:
>Yeah, it was Valerie Solanis (c.1967-8)
>i have no idea what became of her.

She shot Andy Warhol in the stomach and went to prison.  I
don't know whether or not she's still in, or what's happened
to her since.
--
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: USENET Growth (Re: How did you find soc.motss?)
Date: 22 Dec 1992 15:10:08 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Reply-To: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: ansible.pubs.stratus.com

Melinda Shore writes
>I discovered net.motss by reading all the newsgroups, and
>there it was (to my considerable delight).

Times sure change, Melinda. I don't think any one person COULD read 
all the newsgroups now, even if s/he could do so 24 hours a day. ;->

I've been in and out of soc.motss a few times since getting net
access in April 1988.  I have mixed feelings about reading/posting
here, but I think this is a good place for all kinds of people who believe very  
strongly in equal rights for everyone to be.  

*  In Germany they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak *
*  because I wasn't a Communist.  Then they came for the Jews, and I *
*  didn't speak because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade *
* unionists, and I didn't speak because I wasn't a trade unionist... *
*Then they came for me--and by that time no one was left to speak up.*
*  Rev. Martin Niemoeller     [Why to March on Washington in April]  *
From: Cread@Fwva.Saic.Com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: long-term relationships...success stories, please...
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 22:21:32 GMT
Organization: Science Applications Int'l, Corp. - Computer systems operation

bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec17.022140.21531@serval.net.wsu.edu> gerkman@binky.csc.wsu.edu (Joseph M. Gerkman) writes:
>
>Finally, sometime between 7 and 10 years you will resign yourself
>to hearing the following question every evening for the rest of your 
>life: "I dunno, what do YOU want to do for dinner?"
>
 
And here I thought every successful relationship had a single
decision-maker . . .
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Re: Apples and oranges (was Re: Why not cure homosexuality?)
Organization: Free Faerie Front
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 23:50:25 GMT

In article <1993Jan2.231335.3089@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
>
>Well, it was just an analogy. (The fun thing about analogies is
>that they let you compare apples and origins.)

Ah-heh-heh... that was supposed to be "apples and oranges". A typo,
not a pun. Or maybe a Freudian slip...
-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"I is not now, nor has I ever been, a Human Bein'!"
                ---Pogo Possum
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ylee@syl.dl.nec.com (Ying-Da Lee)
Subject: Re: long-term relationships...success stories, please...
Keywords: relationships long-term lengthy
Organization: NEC Systems Lab., C&C Software Technology Center (Dallas, TX)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 21:21:48 GMT

Murray and I marked our 15th anniversary on November 17.  ('Marked'
rather than celebrated as I was in the clutch of excruciating
back pain that week.)  Included are the four years when I was
working in NC and New York / New Jerssey
and he in Madison, WI, during that time we only got together on
holidays and summer vacations.

It is a little surprising how well this has worked, after all we
are so very much different.  I am Asian and he is a round-eye.
I am a techno-geek and he is more a man of letter.  I am 'spontaneous'
and he is verrrrrry methodical.  I am a bleeding-heart liberal and he
is a **GASP** Republican.  Oh yeah, to tie in with the ageism thread,
I am 45 and he is 62.  (Corollary: I work like a dog and he is
reeetired. *SIGH*)

Hmm, that looks like a list of big odds against us.  I guess our
being both of the same sex has really helped.

	Ying-Da Lee
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Minor Crises was(long-term relationships)
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:33:35 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) wrote:
>>In article <29DEC92.16572481@enh.nist.gov>,
>>aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
> 
>>>I guess this means you haven't reached the "What?  You
>>>want to have sex again?  I'm too tired.  Didn't we just do
>>>it last month?" phase yet.
> 
>In my ten grand affairs, lasting an average of 3.5 years
>each, the longest 10.5 years, I never once ran into this
>apparently common business of getting tired of one another
>as sexual partners.  

Oh, Jess.  I was just being silly.  I really like using this line on
couples who are just getting started, or who only have a couple of 
years under their belts.  It scares them, not as much as being non-
monogamous does (which can be a fact), but it is interesting to see 
their reactions nonetheless.  "We have *that* to look forward to?"
All in fun.


Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson@ocean.dnet.nasa.gov
"Home is where your roof landed" - t-shirt seen in Miami
"We Will Rebuild (tm)" - majority community response to Andrew
"We Will Redecorate" - gay community response to Andrew
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: A Taste of Culture
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 07:53:44 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.220738.6453@panix.com> mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:

>kkenny@gems.vcu.edu (Karen Kenny aka Mel) writes:
>
> >How bout yourself dipped in honey?  Or do you have to 
> >be lesbian for that to work?
>
>Heck, no.  You don't even have to be female.
>Maple syrup, chocolate sauce and various sweet liqueurs
>(ahem; one at a time) are also nice.  It helps if you have
>your own washing machine.

Now, I've heard of vibrators, but *that's* ridiculous.

(Apologies to ... Paula Poundstone, I believe.)

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
From: shore@adobe.com (Andrew Shore)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: The Crying Game SONG ? (NOT A SPOILER)
Date: 3 Jan 93 18:06:54 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated


LOVED the movie! SEE IT!!!!

Now for my question --
Who has recorded the song from which the movie gets its title?
Gotta know! Gotta own it!

--Andy
  shore@mv.us.adobe.com
From: LASAGA@corral.uwyo.edu (LASAGA)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: IGNORE (testing)
Date: 3 Jan 1993 21:30:06 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu



[Just testing process for posting.  Hope you ignored this message.]
From: brown@NCoast.ORG (Stan Brown)
Subject: Re: RE's
Organization: Oak Road Systems, Cleveland Ohio USA
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 13:55:29 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.225356.968@athena.mit.edu> tcarlin@athena.mit.edu (Thomas B Carlin) writes:
>
>I cannot help but notice that:
>
>	(2)	The RE seldom has anything to do with the topic, or - more common and
>			far worse - is tanget laid upon tanget laid upon tanget, to the 
>			point where not only do you not have a clue what they are talking
>			about, you wonder what all this has to do with the stated 
>			subject.
>
>Yes, I'm kvetching.  I'm allowed, and even if I'm not, I will anyhow.  I'm just that way.
>                     ^^^^^^^^^^^

Not until you can find the Enter or Return key on your keyboard, my pet.
-- 
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems                      brown@Ncoast.ORG
Cleveland, Ohio, USA

What's a question that contains the word 'cantaloupe' for no apparent reason?
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson)
Subject: Re: Posting Styles
Originator: glp@merlin
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 18:58:55 GMT


In article <1992Dec31.143113.16490@panix.com>, mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:
|> 
|> In the ongoing NYC feudal wars,
|> glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) confronted me:
|>    >>>No such luck, Cobra Woman.  Prepare to pay.
|> In all innocence (!) I replied:
|>   >> Mara [Cobra Woman?  You gotta be kidding.]
|> coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren) comments:
|>  >Kidding? Greg?
|> reminding me how serious Greg always is.  We fought it out at dinner
|> last night, in front of witnesses.  To a draw.

Ugly, and in public.  Typical NYC dining experience.

|> It was, as they say, a somber meal.  Not.  Of course, with
|> Steven Levine and Michael Siemon adding their humorless presences
|> and long faces to the event, nobody had any fun at all.

I moped all through dinner, through cocktails with
Steven and Dave, and through looking-at-motss-photos.

In fact, I'm *still* downcast!


-- 
Greg Parkinson                  Phone: 212-657-7814  Fax: 212-825-8607
Citibank,111 Wall Street        E-Mail: glp@fig.citib.com
New York, New York  10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
Newsgroups: soc.motss