HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Big Bri)
Subject: Re: NCAA officiating
Organization: Clarkson University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 22:15:44 GMT

rbrbrn@meteor.wisc.edu (Rob Holmes) writes:

>I think that the biggest problem with the officiating in the NCAA Championship
>game was that the referee was from the east and the teams were from the west,
>where a more defensive, "clutch and grab" game is played.  Obviuosly, this hurt
>the badgers much more than LSSU.  This inconsistancy should be avoided as much
>as possible.  Why didn't they use officials from the WCHA or the CCHA?  It
>would seem to make more sense.

First off, why would it favor Wisconsin more than LSSU. Secondly, I think the
ref was pretty consistent (with the exception of the phantom slash call in 
the second period). LSSU adjusted to his tight style, UW didn't. That's
why LSSU won. LSSU is certainly a more defensive team than UW so it would 
seem that the tight calling ref would hurt LSSU. BY THE WAY, LSSU may have had
11 power plays but Wisconsin also had 8, themselves.

Probably the reason they used a neutral official is to avoid any potential
conflict. For instance, either team might have a particular official that
they don't get along with. I know Pierre Belanger is not popular in the
ECAC, for instance. If an ECAC team were in the final, I doubt they'd
want him.

>Also, anyone who's ever played the game knows that when you are already down a
>man, you can generally get away with a little more, especially when it comes to
>interference in front of the net.  Calls at nuetral ice, unless extremely
>blatant, usually are let go.  This was not the case in the WI, LSSU game.  It's
>hard as a player to abandon a style of hockey that you've played all year, and
>most of your life, because the ref decides to call everything he sees.  The
>slash and misconduct call on MacDonald was an extremly bad call.
>I believe that many of us that have been involved with the game of hockey can
>appreciate the feelings of the Badgers after the game.  It is those who only
>can watch the game that can agree with the officiating.

The slash was a bad call, the misconduct wasn't. I understand the feelings of
the Badgers BUT THAT CERTAINLY DOESN'T JUSTIFY THEIR ACTIONS. Officiating had
as much or more of a role in the Maine-MSU and Michigan-Northern Michigan
quarterfinal games but Maine and NMU held themselves with dignity.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
BRI FARENELL	CLARKSON '95	FARENEBT@CRAFT.CAMP.CLARKSON.EDU

"It's a great day for hockey."	---Bob Johnson 1931-1991

GO ADIRONDACK RED WINGS! 	CALDER CUP CHAMPS: 1981 1986 1989

PROUD TO BE A FAN OF USA HOCKEY AND US COLLEGE HOCKEY.
 


Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: lli+@cs.cmu.edu (Lori Iannamico)
Subject: So long, Stanley Cup playoffs
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 92 16:34:25 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Keywords: personal ramblings

It seems to me that now the strike has come down to a battle of wills.  It 
seems to have gone beyond the issues, and has come down to nothing more than
"us vs. them".  The hard ass attitude taken by both sides has only made things
worse.

I have supported the players' in this strike, and I still do.  But I thought
it was a bad move to flat out reject the owners' latest proposal less than
an hour after receiving it.  I thought the proposal should at least have gone
to the union for a vote.  As a player, I would want to read the proposal and
decide for myself.

And the owners' made a bad move by saying this was their final offer, take
it or leave it.  The owners' should have given a sign that they were open to
further negotiations on the proposal.  But this "By 3:00 Thursday or forget it"
attitude did nothing but anger the union leaders and player reps.

It never should have come to this point.  The owners and players should have
been negotiating all season long.  But as I understand it (please correct me if
I'm wrong)the owners were the ones who kept putting the talks off.  That, and
not taking the players' threat to strike seriously, are proving to be fatal
mistakes.

And now comes word that the players, buoyed by the news that the NHL has
lost an antitrust suit in federal court, are thinking of suing the league.
And I have to admit, I agree with NHL spokesperson Bill Wilkerson (see my
previous post).  I think the ruling did influence the decision of the union
leaders and player reps to reject the owners' latest offer.  

I think it was a mistake.  All the players should have been given the chance to
see it, and the leaders should have seriously read it over, made changes, and
sent it back to the owners.  The more moderate of the owners might have been
willing to give on the deadline, and reopened the talks.

But now even the moderates are pissed, and they're talking about bringing in
replacement players for next season.

If that's the case, count me out.  I'm not paying major league prices to see
minor league talent.  I'll stay home and watch college hockey on cable.

Lori

Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: NHL Season is over.
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 22:55:43 GMT

In article <28370027@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM> cadams@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (Chris Adams) writes:
>from Gerald
>
>>I have only supported free agency in combination with revenue-sharing
>>and a salary cap/floor...the problem is that the players want free
>>agency without revenue-sharing and a salary cap, and the owners want
>>no revenue-sharing and no free agency.
>
>I was just reading our r.s.h faq file and according to it the NHL owners
>want a one year deal so that a revenue sharing or salary cap plan can be
>negotiated over the next year.  The players position is that they want
>complete chaos and they want it now.
>
>

The NHL owners don't need an agreement with the players to begin
sharing revenue...Bill Wirtz doesn't want to share his revenue or
there would have been revenue-sharing along time ago.  

Gerald


Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: jjm+@andrew.cmu.edu (James J. Murawski)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Minimum Salaries
Date: 10 Apr 92 12:12:58 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Administrative Systems, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


On 10-Apr-92 in Minimum Salaries             
user Joseph C. Achkar@cec1.wu writes:
>  Can anyone provide me with the following information on salaries ?
> 
>*  Minimum and Average salaries in the NHL
>*  Minimum and Average salaries in the NBA
>*  Minimum and Average salaries in Baseball.

Offhand, I don't know the numbers for NHL & NBA, but yesterday's Pittsburgh
Press published the salaries of all MLB players, and for the first time in
history, the average baseball salary is over $1 million.

====================================================================
    Jim Murawski
    Sr. Data Base Analyst               (412) 268-2650  [office]
    Administrative Systems              (412) 268-6868  [fax]
    Carnegie Mellon University          jjm+@andrew.cmu.edu
    4910 Forbes Avenue                  Office: UCC 155
    Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890
From: allan@cs.UAlberta.CA (Allan Sullivan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: What the world needs now is an AMERICAN TV CONTRACT.
Date: 12 Apr 92 21:00:05 GMT
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada

etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se (Staffan Axelsson) writes:

>In article <allan.702803291@kitscoty> allan@cs.UAlberta.CA (Allan Sullivan) writes:

>>In Europe, and in many of the North American amature leagues, where
>>fighting is not allowed, things like stickwork are much more prevalent.
>>
>Aahh, the expert on European hockey again. Could you please specify in
>which European league you have seen this prevalent stickwork?
>I get to watch 2 NHL games a week on cable here (before this strike started)
>and it is my opinion that the stickwork is more common in NHL.
>Especially ugly cross checks on the neck and the back is a lot more common
>in NHL as well as the usual wood chopping.

Actually, I don't see Eurpean games. But I do see Europeans playing in the`
NHL. Many Europeans are OK (Semenov, Tikkanen, Federov, etc.) However,
there are some (in particular Ulf Samuelson and Fetisov) who seem to
be consistent in their cheap shot ability.

>>(It seams like the only cases of kicking i've heard about
>>involve Europeans.) Is this a fluke? Maybe, but I doubt it.
>>
>Kicking??? Do you mean that the players intentionally try to cut the 
>opponents throats off by using their skates, or what? Hmm, that's a new one
>to me. Well, since you have seen it and I haven't it must have started
>over there.

I've seen two kicking incidents in hockey. One was at the last Olympics,
the other involved Makarov of the Flames. (I know its a rather small
sample size, but note that both incidents involved Eurpeans.)

>No Allan, let's face it, you have been watching too much of that Don
>Cherry stuff :-) :-)

If Don Cherry was running the league, the NHL likely wouldn't be in
the trouble it is now.

(Of course, with the way that the league is being run, Howdy Doodie
would probably be better at running the league.)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   \  \                   |Allan Sullivan (allan@cs.ualberta.ca)
    \  \                  |Department of Computing Science,
     \  \_______          |University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
      \    ###  \     _   |---------------------------------------------------
       \___###___\   (_)  |My opinions are mine and mine alone.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It is amazing how much can be accomplished if no one cares who gets the
 credit..."          - U. of A. Golden Bears Hockey Motto (C. Drake)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: allan@cs.UAlberta.CA (Allan Sullivan)
Subject: Re: Jets 6, Oilers 2
Keywords: hockey, men's professional
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 21:55:17 GMT

claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:

>Hurray!  Now, I guess that means that it's time to bring out my "playoff
>.sig..." :-)

>===============================================================================
>GO LOS ANGELES KINGS!  Go for the Stanley Cup!  Go for the 4-0 sweep!
>Esa Tikkanen is a stiff! :-) (from the injury)  Bill Ranford is a stiff! :-)

Thats OK, the Oilers still have Kelly Hamburger, er, Buchberger, or whatever
to neutralize Gretzky, and even if Ranford doesn't play well, they
still have Tuggnutt as a backup. (I'm sure Tuggnutt would jump at the
chance to play in the post season...)

Basically, I think the Kings are going to have a hard time making it
by the Oilers. (And a Vancouver-Oiler matchup would be quite a show
to see...)

Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: ARBOGASTW@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu (Warren Arbogast)
Subject: Re: Kiss the playoffs goodbye
Organization: Darden Center, University of Virginia
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 19:36:39 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.181427.3756@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>In article <ARBOGASTW.58@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu> ARBOGASTW@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu (Warren Arbogast) writes:
>>No, it is the owners who want to consider this revenue in the overall CBA.  
>>The owners have said they don't want to change the status quo, they want to 
>>BEFORE THE END OF THE 93 PLAYOFFS look closer at this revenue source.

>In what way is this not a change in the status quo?  Seriously.  

>Sherri Nichols
>snichols@adobe.com

It is not a change in the current CBA agreements because the owners have 
said they'll maintain the status quo through the 93 playoffs.

The players have maintained that all revenues should be looked at - 
including creative book keeping as in Washington with parking, food, and 
merchandise going into Abe Pollin's other pocket.  I agree.

The owners have said, "fine, let's look at all the revenue - including the 
hockey card revenue."  I agree.

The owners have said let's leave the status quo with regard to hockey 
card revenue in tact through the 93 season.  Hence, no change at this time 
in the status quo.

The players on the other hand have not said, let's maintain the status quo 
with regard to our issues.

Yes there is a potential change with regard to the card revenue.  But at 
this point, there is no change to the status quo. It may be a fine line, but 
if the players made a similar statement on their concerns, we might be 
debating playoff games instead of language and intent.

Warren
From: Robert_Broughton@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert Broughton)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Stanley Cup to Rangers?
Date: 6 Apr 92 06:13:48 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

If the playoffs get wiped out by the strike, do the trustees for the Stanley
Cup (who are they, anyway) have any authority, discretionary or otherwise, to
award the cup to the team with the most regular season points?
--
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Robert Broughton    Robert_Broughton@mindlink.bc.ca

"Moose do not have the vote so as far as most politicians are concerned
they do not count. The silent majority rarely attends public meetings and 
never writes letters to the editor. They do not demand jobs or housing. 
Regardless, I am one legislator who thinks that not only do moose deserve 
a hearing, but that specific moose questions deserve more consideration 
in our political forums." - Yukon Premier Tony Penikett, from _Another 
Lost Whole Moose Catalog_
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: fflav@brahms.udel.edu (Stephen J Kramarck)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Kiss the playoffs goodbye
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:16:01 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Delaware


  To those of you who can get the FAN(660am).  The Captain Midnite show usually has lots of hockey jibber jabber.  Steve Summers is the host and the callers are about one half Mets,Yankees, and one half hockey.  Its a great show even
for non Ranger fans like me.

Later
Steve
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Attn. Islanders fans -- "Crowning Glory"
Date: 6 Apr 92 19:32:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: cunixf.1992Apr6.193254.24949
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Distribution: na
Organization: Curious Goods (formerly Louis Vendredi Antiques)


By the way, Islander fans who get SCNY or have access to a dish might
be interested to know that there's a one hour documentary (propoganda?
(-;) on the Islanders dynasty ending with the two players whose
numbers were retired, giving their speeches to the Hall of Fame.
Look for "Crowning Glory" in your listings.

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare				U.S. Elections 1992, Vote Now:
> gld@cunixB.cc.columbia.EDU		a) Elvis 50's stamp, or
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			b) Elvis 70's stamp?
From: alan@lancaster.nsc.com (The Hepburn)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: NHL CONTRACT
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:51:05 GMT
Organization: National Semiconductor Corporation

Well, I haven't seen it posted yet, so here it is (as published in the Orange County
Register Sunday 12 April 1992 page C5 (without permission, of course)):

Terms of the new collective bargaining agreement between the NHL and its players
association as outlined by the union Saturday:

*TERMS:  Expires Sept. 15, 1993.

*LICENSING AND ENDORSEMENTS:  Clubs recognize that the players own exclusive rights
 to their individual personality, including their likeness.

*SALARY ARBITRATION:  New procedural rules negotiated; a panel of eight salary
 arbitrators to be jointly agreed upon by both parties.

*FREE AGENCY:  Reduction in compensation scale, creating less restrictions for 
 movement by players aged 30 and under; Group III free agent age reduced from 31
 to 30; A player who has completed 10 professional seasons or more (minor league or
 NHL) and who, in the last year of his contract, did not earn more than the average
 NHL salary, can elect once in his career to become an unrestricted free agent at the
 end of his contract.

*SALARY AND AWARDS:  Players' playoff fund increased from $7.5 million this year to
 $9 million next season; established new minimum salary of $100,000.

*INSURANCE:  NHL provides $200,000 disabililty coverage; general dental improvements;
 broad-based medical improvements; 100% increase in life insurance for players; 
 establishes coverage for wives.

*PENSION:  Improved pension contributions to between $8,000 and $12,500 per player
 per year over the term of the agreement, depending on the number of NHL games in
 which a player has played; agreement on language to guarantee continuation of
 Security Plan negotiated in 1986.

*SCHEDULE AND ROSTER:  Season expanded to 84 games beginning next season; for last two
 games, all arrangements and revenues to be shared on a partnership basis by players
 and owners; rosters remain at 18 skaters and two goalies.

*ENTRY DRAFT:  Eleven rounds.

*SUPPLEMENTAL DRAFT:  One selection by each non-playoff team.


-- 
Alan Hepburn           "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
National Semiconductor       a little temporary safety deserve neither
Santa Clara, Ca              liberty nor safety."
alan@berlioz.nsc.com                              Benjamin Franklin
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Dear Sherri
Date: 8 Apr 92 14:48:27 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department

In article <28370025@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM> cadams@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (Chris Adams) writes:
>Sherri asks:
>
>>How do you define "compete"?
>
>This is getting really weak!  How do you define "How"?  
>
>How about: "All teams should have equal opportunity to build a team
>capable of winning the Stanley Cup."
>
>>True.  But one team can only find room for so many players.  Would a player
>>go to a winner who would pay him lots of money if he were scratched half
>>the time?
>
>I don't know why you don't get it Sherri.  I will try to make a simple
>model for you.  Let's say one team can afford to pay salaries which are
>twice as high as any other team.  Say this team carries only 18
>players so that no one ever gets scratched (four forward lines, three
>defensive pairs and two goalies).  Without a draft there is an extremely
>high probability that this team would have 18 of the *very best* players
>in the league.  It would not be hard to build such a team using only the
>"no-brainer" draft picks".  Even if the 18 players are only 18 of the
>top 36 or something the team would still have a lopsided advantage over
>the other teams in the league.  
>
>Just curious Sherri; do you have a favorite team?  LA Kings perhaps?
>

The mega-stars are going to want to maximize their salaries...this is
not possible if they all play for one team...the desire of the best
players to maximize their salaries will encourage their
distribution rather than their concentration...and to maximize the
salaries further...it would help if every team could compete for
their talents, which is why when asking for free agency, the players
should be suggesting that the owners share revenue.

Since the players should also be concerned about the number of hockey
jobs, and since the size of the business is also likely to affect
the size of the maximum salary, for the players to advocate free
agency without advocating policies such as revenue-sharing to maximize
the number of teams, and the number of teams that can compete for
their services is counter-productive.

In this sense, both the players and the owners are wrong in the
current dispute...the owners are hurting their business by fighting
free agency and revenue-sharing, and the players are hurting themselves
by not agreeing to a proportion of revenues for salaries, and a
team salary cap.

Gerald
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Most popular athletes
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 03:33:09 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.224721.12551@odin.corp.sgi.com> rickc@wrigley.corp.sgi.com (Richard Casares) writes:
>In article <1992Apr14.125437.1@sask.usask.ca>, chin@sask.usask.ca (Glenn Chin) writes:
> Most popular athletes in NHL cities/regions (one athlete per team per region)
>|> 									Apr/92
>|> 		Most popular		Second most popular
>|> Chicago	Michael Jordan		Ryne Sandberg
>
>     Sandberg more popular than Mike Ditka?  Ha!

How long has Ditka been a player of any sort?

>|> Los Angeles	Wayne Gretzky		Ramon Martinez
>
>	Magic Johnson?

Magic Johnson is also not a player anymore.

>|> San Jose	Joe Montana		Pat Falloon
>
>	Canseco, Clark?

Clark possibly, but definitely not Canseco.  Canseco's reputation is very
mixed.

===============================================================================
Kansas City Blades for the Turner Cup!
GO LOS ANGELES KINGS!  Wayne Gretzky for Ross and Hart!
GO SAN JOSE SHARKS!  Pat Falloon for Calder!  Jeff Hackett for Vezina!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
rec.sport.hockey contact for the San Jose Sharks
From: ab870@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Rickin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: NHL players not allowed to play in World Champ.
Date: 11 Apr 92 23:36:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.1992Apr11.233644.22638
Reply-To: ab870@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Rickin)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


according to the Hockey News, Ziegler is not allowing NHL players to
play for their respective countries in the World Championships this
spring unless the Czech and Slovak Hockey Federation  drops or postpones
its $3 million lawsuit again the Oilers, which claims that Edmonton
illegally signed Josef Beranek and Martin Rucinsky to contracts.  The
suit also demands that the plaayers be returned to Czechoslovakia.

Later in the article, though, it says that:

"If the NHL labor dispute is settled and the season resumes, the
Canadian and US clubs would be able to select players for the 6
non-playoff teams and the 8 squads eliminated in the 1st round of the
post-season.

Hmm.. IS lindros planning on playing in the WC?
-- 
ab870@cleveland.freenet.edu (Eric Rickin) or bu072@gnh-bauhaus.cts.com
Slap and Tickle... The Canadian National Sport
University of Michigan: Class of 1996
From: nhmas@gauss.med.harvard.edu (Mark Shneyder 432-4219)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: It's over. It's all over.
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:58:45 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: HMS


 It's over,uh-huh,uh-huh,you've got the strike,baby! Uh-huh
 Well,hockey fans, World Hockey Championship in Prague is only a few
weeks. So let's just hope that the boys and girls at SportsChannel America
might use some imagination and fit some of it into its May schedule since
those will be the only hockey games which NHL players will be playing in
this season.

-Mark.
From: chrisl@ppc.ubc.ca (chris lynch)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Name That Goon!
Date: 15 Apr 92 22:13:58 GMT
Reply-To: chrisl@ppc.ubc.ca (chris lynch)
Organization: UBC Pulp & Paper Centre

In article <kup3pqINN93f@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>, gak@gakbox.Corp.Sun.COM (Richard Stueven) writes:
|> Name a player who received two major penalties, two minor penalties,
|> and two misconducts ON THE SAME PLAY.
|> 
Sounds likes Marty McSorley on a rampage....according to the Canuck radio
broadcasters, he hit everyone on the ice but Gino. I think he was getting warmed
up for Gino, but Coffey grabbed Gino. Adrian Plavsic danced (ie held on) with Marty
for a two minute roughing penalty.   

Marty didn't break any records though. According to the announcers, Randy Holt got 64
minutes on the same play. Those were the good ole days?