HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 10:48:18 -0400 
From: "Matthew S. Weiss" <mwaa+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: SOTG / Travelling
	<troy.712259027@buck>

I'm interested in opinions about another kind of travel than that
discussed in this line of argument.  Recently, I've been calling more
travels when the player I'm covering catches the disc and then jogs four
or five steps before establishing a pivot foot.  I've never been much
inclined to use this call, as I understand that momentum will often
carry a receiver a ways before he can stop, but in these instances, my
mark is already looking upfield, seemingly perfectly able to stop
himself, but, I don't know any other way to put this, running into the
flow--or setting himself up for an easier throw.  My complaint is that
he's preventing me from marking him, starting a stall count, and perhaps
stopping the throw or holding my team's force by continuing to run while
I should be catching up to him.  

Other players I've talked to feel this is a dubious call--arguably an
unnecessary stoppage of play.  My question, then, is this.  At what
point does momentum stop and a travel begin?  Under what circumstances
is it justifiable and spirited to call a travel after a catch?

Matt
From: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu (George Ferguson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Re: Ultimate in Colorado Spr
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:51:30 GMT
Reply-To: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu (George Ferguson)
Organization: Computer Science Department University of Rochester.


In article <712351487.F00007@blkcat.UUCP> Eric.Simon@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Eric Simon) writes:
>CB-SB>I'll be in Colorado Springs for awhile and would like to play with
>CB-SB>an area team if possible. I've already called 1-800 UPA-GETH and
>CB-SB>gotten the contacts that they have listed (only one and the number was
>CB-SB>disconnected).
>
>Well, our first hypothetical in action, I'd say.  I see 13 people on the
>UPA list that live in Ft. Collins.  Many on this net say I shouldn't
>pass them on to you due to privacy.
>Well gang, what do y'all think?

Hmm, calling my bluff, as it were.  I think the question is a bit
unfair, given the current system. That is, I think we all feel for the
guy, and your personal knowledge of him and of the UPA list makes it
*obvious* what the best answer would be.

He's a UPA member, so that's already got us beyond the problem of
marketing suits looking for names and numbers. And it's not like
you're thinking of releasing SSN's in any case, so again one of the
controversial issues is not at stake. The question is whether people
*know* when they join the UPA whether their information is to be made
available in situations like this. I expect that many of them do. In
that case, there's no problem giving another member a phone number.

However, I think the current membership form and database information
needs to be amended so that people can indicate if they'd like to
*not* participate in such exchanges. This would be like those boxes
companies routinely include on forms these days that allow you (in
theory) to get off mailing lists. Either that or it should be stated
as a condition of membership that the information is available to
other members, or to the public, or whatever. I understand that this
means a bit more work for the UPA staff, which is easy for me to
advocate from afar.

George



-- 
George Ferguson                 ARPA: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu
Dept. of Computer Science       UUCP: rutgers!rochester!ferguson
University of Rochester         VOX:  (716) 275-2527
Rochester  NY  14627-0226       FAX:  (716) 461-2018
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: jal41820@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Smiley)
Subject: Re: 10 vs Stall
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 17:13:19 GMT

kevinpo@sco.COM (Kevin Pondy) writes:
:)How many people actually use the word "Stall" between numbers.  I have
:)played all over the Central Region, Parts of the South and East, and
:)now play in the West.  And for all the tournaments I have played in and
:)people I have heard stall, I really cannot remember any that have
:)counted "stall one stall two stall three stall four..." 
:)I don't have the best of memories, so I could be unobservant, but
:)but I have checked with several other people and they have never heard
:)anyone use stall between there numbers.  So where do this mystery
:)players play.

Just about everyone on our team does it...   :)

:)Which brings me back to the fact that for 99.99% of the players out there
:)"stall" and "ten" should both be a stalled disc.

I don't think we've encountered a stall problem under normal play, but
when playing a practice drill we have where the count only goes to
six, we consider it a stall when the person begins saying "six".
-- 
        Josh Laff              #     #      
email to: smiley@uiuc.edu     _       _     Hello! I am a signature virus!  
      (217) 356-6079         |#\_____/#|    Join the fun and copy mo*#(*&^!>.
                              \#######/
From: mdonahue@convex.com (Mike Donahue)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Pickup in Atlanta
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:42:26 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

I will be in Atlanta this weekend and may have some time to
play some pickup ultimate,

Anyone out there want to suggest when and where to go ?

Thanks,




-- 
Michael Donahue
mdonahue@convex.com
214-497-4051
/* My opinions are just that */
Organization: Doctoral student, History, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 10:51:26 -0400 
From: "Matthew S. Weiss" <mwaa+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: One handed catches
	<24969@dog.ee.lbl.gov>

On 27-Jul-92 in One handed catches           
user david nolan@pi3.lbl.gov writes:
>In article <1992Jul27.094619.3107@desire.wright.edu>
antioch@desire.wright.edu 
>writes:
>>
>>Also, just because people I've gotten different answers: Is it best to grab a
>>hammer with just one hand?	MattKelly@antioc.antioch.edu
>> 
> 
>I tell this to beginners and I try to follow the same rule myself:
>The only time it's OK to catch with one hand is if your feet have to leave
>the ground, as in skying or laying out. Otherwise use two hands for any kind
>of throw.
> 
>Ok, one exception:  the disk is thrown behind you and you have to reach 
>back quickly to prevent the defender from getting to it first.
> 
>Dave Nolan

I'll weigh in here, too.  Wherever possible, I pancake the hammer.  I
agree with Dave about one-handed catches.  A layout, as well, sometimes
invites a one-handed catch, I think.

Matt
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: wballew@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Walter Ballew)
Subject: Need Rules
Keywords: NEW PLAYER RULES
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 07:37:34 GMT

Can anyone tell me where to get the latest ultimate rules (esp. the field
size.)  An FTP site would be perfect.



Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: dbarnden@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Dennis Barnden)
Subject: Australian Masters Games
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 06:30:18 GMT

The 4th Australian Masters Games will be held in Perth, Western
Australia from April 24th to May 2nd 1993.

The Masters Games concept was developed by the Confederation of
Australian Sport as a bi-annual multi-sport event promoting friendly
competition and participation by the mature age generation of Australia
and neighbouring countries in our region.
And now, the Fourth Australian Masters Games promises to be even bigger
and better in Perth - a beautiful city with a proud tradition of
unqualified success in the staging of major international sporting
events.

In 1993 there will be 40 different sports participating with everything
from archery to yachting. The disc events will include both golf and
ultimate. The minimum age for disc players is 30 years.

April in Perth is a delightful time of year with an average temperature
of around 25 degrees C (75 F) and bright sunny days, great beaches and a
livley night life.

For any further information and registration forms don't hesitate to
contact me.


Dennis Barnden
dbarnden@uniwa.uwa.edu.au
15 Reilly Way,
Greenwood,
Western Australia,  6024
Phone +691 220 5822 (Work)
          +691 342 6131 (Home)
Fax +691 221 3829
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: andyrose@netcom.com (San Francisco Fractal Factory)
Subject: Re: San Francisco Pick Up - Sharon Meadows
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 17:42:17 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

Frisbee and dating?  Japanese women?

I once read a book written by asian women who were involved with or married
to white guys here in the US.  Invariably they spoke of lack of
understanding of their culture by their mates as being a crucial
problem.  Until you know what Japan means(etc)...


As far as finding eligibles on the field, I got great advice from long
time player Scott Rowe.   "Leave it at home."  He, of course, has a
girl friend.

lateron AnR

-- 

Andrew Rose
andyrose@netcom.com
FAX 4155537756

From: <kdarc@sg1.chem.nrc.ca>
Approved: news@is.morgan.com
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:51:52 GMT
Munged: news-gateway (is.morgan.com: $Revision: 1.8 $)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Company, Inc.
Distribution: world
Subject: montreal players


any montreal players out there???
Seeing as you're not going to Vancouver,
any interest in picking up with RK of
Ottawa for the Canadians????

if so, please send a speedy reply to
Ken at kdarc@sg1.chem.nrc.ca
 
tel: 613-748-6534 h
     613-993-6848 w


Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: fulton@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Ben Fulton)
Subject: Re: pancake (was: One handed catches)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 13:31:43 GMT

In <TNT.92Jul29133348@netcom.com> tnt@netcom.com (Terry Turner) writes:

>that said: never pancake the catch. a pancake is a catch where the 
>hands catch the disc on top and bottom. this leads to the mistake 
>we've all seen and most of us have done: the disc sliding out of our 
>grasp as our hands cross each other without touching.

A lot of people pancake throws that are directly into their chest.  If
you miss it should bounce off your chest and still be catchable, while
if you miss the side of the disc, it goes straight down.  I agree with
you that a pancake is a bad idea when catching away from the body.

ben
fulton@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
lemon curry?
From: dks@Apple.COM (dk smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Re: DBMS key
Keywords: computers
Date: 29 Jul 92 20:58:27 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Jul29.144717.15022@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> ziskin@climate.gsfc.nasa.gov (Daniel C. Ziskin) writes:
>In article <daemon.92Jul29040259@is.morgan.com>, Frank Revi <71551.2461@CompuServe.COM> writes:
>
>|> With these in mind, any others you might suggest, what would make a good
>|> key?  What about something  a little more algorithmic?
>|> 
>
>Is there a problem with just automatically changing the first digit of the 
>SSN to 8 whether the UPA member cares to do so herself or not?
>Does this offer enough security?  If not, could the first series of
>three numbers be replaced by some sequence like 872-??-???? (UPA-*)?
>Another approach could be some simple encryption.  I don't think
>it has to be uncrackable.  Perhaps when the SSN are entered into the
>UPA database, the first and last digits are exchanged, or something like that.

Or you could combine the two decent ideas...

one was to incorporate birthdates
the other, to use 'part' of the SSN

Use of names will create a predictable (but yet small) amount of updating
in the future due to people getting married and FBI relocation programs, etc.

>
>Moving onto another computer issue...
>I think the pick-up schedule database is an excellent idea.  Before 
>too much time and effort is invested I would like to make two suggestions:
>1) If possible, make it in some type of spread sheet format, so
>searches are easy and the information is presented uniformly.
>2) Include a 'confirmation date' column so that people have an idea
>how reliable the information is.  

I think this is a very good idea. I twill not only facilitate searching but
also the input of the information. A simple approach would be to define a
guideline for submission such as tab-delimited fields... making sure to define
enough fields for persons of all geographies and coutries to comfortably use.

-my 2c

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dks@apple.com           |   Play   |              \ These opinions are mine /
Office: 408 974-1275    |   More   |               \  and are not endorsed /
AppleLink: ULTIMATE     |   Disc   |                \  by Apple Computer. /
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: mds@henry.ece.cmu.edu (Mark Schultz)
Subject: Re: SOTG / Travelling
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:50:11 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.112727.26108@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE> stegerc@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Carsten Steger) writes:

>There's one thing that came to my mind while watching some of the
>games of the German nationals recently.
>Imagine the following: A player catches the disc with nobody within 10
>meters around him. He then throws off a long huck downfield. In the
>act of doing so he drags his pivot foot maybe 20 centimeters or so.
>Someone who is 20 meters away from the throwing player calls
>'travelling'.
>In my opinion it is against the spirit of the game to call a travel
>under such circumstances, because the thrower gets no advantage by
>travelling this way because he doesn't evade the mark of his marker.
>I would like to hear your comments on this.
>Carsten

Getting around a marker is not the only illegal advantage to be gained by
dragging the pivot foot.  Most throwers can add significantly to the power
and/or distance of their throws if they do this.  Hence, if the throw is 
indeed a long huck as your example states, I think a travel call is entirely
appropriate.  However, I have seen teams use this kind of call to set up 
defense when they are torched on a turnover.  In this case the opposition 
should require the team that made the call to return to the positions they
were at when the call was made.  Alternatively, simply don't travel and thus
don't give them the excuse to make the call.

							Mark
From: troy@cqs.washington.edu (Troy Frever)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Re: SOTG / Travelling
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:43:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: buck.troy.712259027
Organization: University of Washington

stegerc@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Carsten Steger) writes:

>Imagine the following: A player catches the disc with nobody within 10
>meters around him. He then throws off a long huck downfield. In the
>act of doing so he drags his pivot foot maybe 20 centimeters or so.
>Someone who is 20 meters away from the throwing player calls
>'travelling'.

>PS: I'm fully aware that the rules allow you to call a travel under
>such circumstances, but I think it's against the SOTG.

I would have to agree (with most players, presumably) that the call
you describe is probably against the SOTG.

However, there is an equally important other side to many similar
stories which is all too often overlooked.  The fact is that it is
MUCH easier to execute a good long throw if one takes an extra step or
a little hop, or even lifts the pivot foot significantly before
releasing the disc (jumping all of your weight to the other foot,
similar to the release of a pull).  I don't think it is within the
SOTG for the thrower to do this just to get a decent huck off.  It
happens all the time, yet if called back on a travel the thrower and
the rest of his/her team invariably complains at length.  I believe
the thrower needs to demonstrate the ability to make the long throw in
question without travelling in order to stay within the spirit of the
rules.


Troy
Seattle Sockeye
troy@u.washington.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: fulton@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Ben Fulton)
Subject: Re: pancake (was: One handed catches)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 13:13:17 GMT

In <25088@dog.ee.lbl.gov> nolan@pi3.lbl.gov (david nolan) writes:

>I don't know what planet you guys have been living on, but there is no 
>question that "pancake" or "slapcatching," where the player catches
>with two hands on the top and bottom of the disc, is an excellent
>way to catch a frisbee.  It is certainly by far the best way for less
>experienced players to catch.  I've never seen any new players catch well
>by grabbing the edges of the disc.  It doesn't matter if the disc is
>away from your body, coming straight at you or you're laying out for
>it, slapcatching is the way to go.

Why?

ben
fulton@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
lemon curry?
From: nolan@pi3.lbl.gov (david nolan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: One handed catches
Date: 27 Jul 1992 23:07:55 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory
Reply-To: nolan@pi3.lbl.gov (david nolan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.140.149

In article <1992Jul27.094619.3107@desire.wright.edu> antioch@desire.wright.edu writes:
>
>Also, just because people I've gotten different answers: Is it best to grab a
>hammer with just one hand?	MattKelly@antioc.antioch.edu
> 

I tell this to beginners and I try to follow the same rule myself:
The only time it's OK to catch with one hand is if your feet have to leave
the ground, as in skying or laying out. Otherwise use two hands for any kind
of throw.

Ok, one exception:  the disk is thrown behind you and you have to reach 
back quickly to prevent the defender from getting to it first.

Dave Nolan
From: mwaa+@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew S. Weiss)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Re: Tips on catching
Date: 31 Jul 92 14:45:50 GMT
	<Bs5rLx.LF9@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Organization: Doctoral student, History, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

On 29-Jul-92 in Re: Tips on catching         
user Ben Fulton@copper.ucs.in writes:
>>When stakes are really high, stand up straight, catch the hammer one-handed
>>(top edge), while placing the other hand on your hip.  This is GOOD FORM, for
>>catching the disc is like sipping a glass of fine champagne.  *How very
>>elegant* is an appropriate remark when someone executes such a catch.
> 
>'Round these parts, we insist that one must stand on one leg, the other 
>bent at the knee, toe pointed gracefully, in order to earn full style points.
>Is Cower a local phenomenon, or is it played nationally?
> 
>ben
>fulton@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
>lemon curry?

For full style points, eyes must be closed.

Matt
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: taniwa@athena.mit.edu (Michael J Cooper)
Subject: Re: Tips on catching
Organization: little to none
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 15:24:19 GMT

In article <troy.712444122@buck> troy@cqs.washington.edu (Troy Frever) writes:
>Frank Revi <71551.2461@CompuServe.COM> writes:
>
>>When stakes are really high, stand up straight, catch the hammer one-handed
>>(top edge), while placing the other hand on your hip.  This is GOOD FORM, for
>>catching the disc is like sipping a glass of fine champagne.  *How very
>>elegant* is an appropriate remark when someone executes such a catch.
>
>It is also acceptable to perform the hand-on-hip catch with one knee
>on the ground.  Be sure to have the catching arm fully extended
>directly above your head.  Try to save this catch for those blades
>which are truly *vertical* and travelling at maximum velocity :)

Actually, Miss'd Hammers, I mean Miss Manners recommends that the hand be
placed on the hip for the flight of the blade and be removed to gently
cover ones eyes just before the catch [cower fans should enjoy this!]
-Coop-     ( PS: Hi Frank)


Organization: Doctoral student, History, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:31:38 -0400 
From: "Matthew S. Weiss" <mwaa+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: 10 vs Stall
Distribution: rec

On 28-Jul-92 in 10 vs Stall                  
user Kevin Pondy@sco.COM writes:
>What is the big deal with saying "Stall" versus saying "Ten".
>I understand that by saying "Stall" people could think that the
>thrower was stalled and stop playing.  However, in reality, I
>don't see this happening.  It is like a pick call, you should
>never stop going to the disc.  
>What I don't like is that people actually say that they weren't
>stalled because the marker said "Stall" instead of "Ten".  A word
>is a word and by the spirit of the game they were rightfully stalled.
>But it seems that there are a lot of lawyers out there that want
>to get their clients off on a technicality; "The rules say you must
>say TEN, not STALL, therefore you didn't stall me."  Bogus and anti-
>spirit.  

I've always liked the "first utterance after 'stalling nine' policy"
myself.  Still, this doesn't necessarily work.  Say, for instance, you
count, as I used to, in the following fashion:  "Stalling one; stalling
two..." and so on.  In this case, presuming you start at "stalling one,"
one second elapses each time you say a number (I've never heard of
"stalling zero," but obviously some do it).  If you count in this way,
you won't have counted ten seconds until after you say "stalling ten." 
I've heard people invoke the "first utterance" policy in cases like
this, when in fact the first utterance after "stalling nine" was not yet
a stall.  Some folks alter their count so it goes "...stalling eight;
stalling nine; TEN!"  Still not fair.  Replacing "stalling" with "TEN"
doesn't make ten seconds elapse any faster.  

My solution to this has been to eliminate all but the first "stalling"
from my count, and to say it in my head, instead.  I use "stalling one"
to establish a one-second rhythm, then count only the numbers, so that
"TEN!" really is a stall.  Many other players I've seen also do this.

I know it's tempting to assume that marker excitement will induce many
fast counts without a word interspersed between numbers, but it's just
as easy to count fast with "stalling" as without.  I am rarely warned
for a fast count, so I think it's probably working. 

As for Kevin's "lawyers," I've met them myself--they do exist.  Nobody
likes to be stalled--It's one of the least pleasant things in the game
(along with getting scorched).  Still, if you had the disc for ten
ticks, give it up.

Matt
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Re: pickup games
From: jal41820@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Smiley)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:36:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

stlucas@gdwest.gd.com (GSS 087272 St. Lucas) writes:
:)With all the talk about pickup games all over the country, has anyone
:)tried coordinating them, and/or generating a list (ftp able) that people
:)could use?  If everyone on the network sent pickup games that they knew

Don't know about ftpable, but I'd be willing to set up one that could
be auto-sent via mail (i.e, you include something like a line that
reads "Pickup: <place>", and an auto-reply tells you of pickups near that
place, or in the case the place isn't found on the list, a list of places
is sent in place.  :)
-- 
        Josh Laff              #     #      
email to: smiley@uiuc.edu     _       _     Hello! I am a signature virus!  
      (217) 356-6079         |#\_____/#|    Join the fun and copy mo*#(*&^!>.
                              \#######/
From: mueller@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Carl Mueller)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Re: unique identifiers
Date: 23 Jul 92 12:58:23 GMT
Reply-To: mueller@schaefer.UUCP (Carl Mueller)
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin Dept. of Mathematics

OK, I'm not a member of the UPA, and maybe I've missed something, but there's
clearly a problem with using SSN's as ID numbers.  What I don't understand is
what exactly is wrong with 0000001 0000002 0000003 0000004 ...?

Just my two cents.
Carl Mueller (mueller@math.wisc.edu)
From: Eric.Simon@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Eric Simon)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP