From: chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com (Chris Christensen)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Blind Listening
Date: 17 Apr 92 05:08:16 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

I should point out that I do not feel that all audiophiles are nuts!
I do honestly believe that audiophiles are really well intentioned
people.  I also believe that all groups of people have the lunatic
fringe element and I won't hold that against all audiophiles.

I also believe that musicians are talented people.  I have worked
around many very fine musicians.  While I am a musician I am not the
best in my field nor do I expect to, but I will, to my last key strokes
defend my co-musicians when they are insulted.

If my comments read as insulting, so be it.  It is the voice of my
passion for my art speaking.  If I am to be rebuked for that, then so
be it also.

And now on with the show!

In article <1190710@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com> kurts@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Kurt Strain)
writes:
(text edited just for fun)
NBE= Nasty Barb Edited!

>What was implied by the ridiculous original statement was that musicians
>know better than audiophiles about sound reproduction, and that the
>evidence here shows the musicians are more accurate at picking out
>better sound. That's bull.  If you believe that, then you need Consumer
>Reports as your guide.

Is this the best you can do?  I gave you more credit!

>> Stereo is not the end all a good mono recording is very rewarding.  And where
>> do YOU get off belittling musicians?  The performance IS more important than
>> image, sound stage or anything else you care to mention.  And if one person 
>> plays out of tune the whole orchestra suffers.
>
>I am not even belittling musicians, you are holding them on a pedestal.
>And I used to be an amateur musician like my father.  I know the difference in 
>attitudes each have and I have had both.  SOME musicians have an interest
>in both listening and playing music, and they are also the same Audiophobes as
>you put it.

You are "implying" that musicians are just the simple tools for your
pleasure!

I really thought that you could do better.

>>   I believe that musicians are far more capable of determining what
>>   CORRECT sound is than any non-musician audiophile.  The musician has
>>   DIRECT COMPARISON in their favor.
>
>I believe you are wrong.  The musician almost ignores most of the things
>audiophiles do not, the musician's main concern being the performance.
>Read rec.music.classical and you will find this out.  And I'm not talking
>musician/audiophile, just musician.  Nothing wrong with the musician's
>priorities, I used to have them that way myself, until I became mainly
>a listener.

"Some people listen to music, others create it!"  Your belief that I am
wrong is just that, your belief. NBE

Most musicians are able to pick their instrument out of a mix.  Not
just the violins their instrument.  And a conductor can do the same.

>>   Your comments have been placeing yourself above us all.  And I am
>>   insulted.

>Think so, huh?  As a customer of music, I have the arragance to voice my
>opinion about what I like and think is important.  No, a musician should
>tell me.  Right.  If it were at all possible, you might think the customer

No musician will tell YOU what to listen for or what is important.
Everyone has a different focus. 

>would tell the musicians what to play and how to play it.  But that's
>not how you think.  That's fine.  Sales are the bottom line here.  There's 

How I think?  The only thing you know about me is what I have said and
what you have implied in my postings.  I am a good deal deeper that I
am capable of writing here. NBE

Are you capable to instruct the musicians in an orchestra on how to play the 
piece?  Don't pass over this one, answer
please.

>a niche market for your idea of quality, too.  Just like record sales still 
>exist but my opinion there hasn't overridden the masses.

Ya I still think that you put yourself above musicians, recording
engineers, producers and composers.  NBE 

Yep sales are the bottom line and as long as audiophiles like yourself
are in the minority we will still be able to produce music.  As
soon as the audiophiles like you start to dictate what and how we
record the world will truely die, as far as I am concerned.

>>   The Audiphiles that left have lost their grounding with reality.  The
>>   seat, the coughers, the lack of "panoramic soundstages" is all an
>>   excuse to put themselves above everyone else in the room.  If I let
>>   myself be affetced by little things like that (when I'm out to enjoy
>>   myself)  I am sure I would go mad with the misery of life!!!

>You are now the insulter.  If you don't like it then you are a snob, eh?

I am no snob,  all I am doing is defending the role of the musician in
the creation of music!  NBE   And by your statement you "imply" guilt as an
insulter.  No insult intended.

>>   I would NEVER put myself above the players who have put heart and soul
>>   into a performance.  It is rude and in this case a typical example of
>>   the elitism that is forced down our throats by the self proclaimed and
>>   self righteous!

>No comment.

Once again you fail me Mr. Strain.  Good try.

>    Do you have DAT?

>DAT what?  No, why should I?

I intended to tease you with a few of my recordings.  Not of myself
BTW

>(Gee, I never thought I'd ever get into a good audiophile/musician flame war
>before.  Now I know where the real egos are: the prima donnas.)

I am far from a prima donna!  I am but a simple musician, recording
engineer and audio designer.  I love my art and what you percieve as ego
is really just passion for that art. NBE

I intentionally pulled you into this to get to the bottom of your
motivation.  I have been disapointed.  

I will also be honest and state that I expected a tirade,  or some silly 
endless run on statement.  So I am actually pleased that you have responded 
in the fashion that you have.

Just where is the Milky Way Galaxy?  What *are* you in life Mr. Strain?
I am honestly interested.  I'll bet that you're Mick Jagger right? 

Don't tell any secrets,  I really am honestly interested.

Good day to you sir.
-- 
Chris Christensen                  The opinions I express are my own,
chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com            and sometimes they are wrong!
916-478-3419 FAX 916-478-3887      After all, I AM only human.
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