From: dlb5404@tamsun.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Fetal Brainwaves (was: Re: fetus vs. baby)
Date: 18 Aug 92 04:36:25 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station

In article <1992Aug17.190001.739@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com> darylb@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com (Daryl Biberdorf) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.152212.9045@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>>In <21370@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>>>	"40 days      The baby's brain waves can be detected,
>>>		      recorded and even read by a doctor."
>
>Biased source or not, it's a correct figure.  Six to eight weeks of
>gestation is the figure I've seen quoted in every single book on
>child development that I've read.
>
>>The figure I've been given (by someone whose words I trust a hell of a
>>lot more than I will ever trust the words of someone like you) is that
>>human brain waves appear between the 4th and 5th month.  Tell you
>>what, though.  I'll ask her to take a look in her Embryology textbook
>>and make sure that her memory isn't flawed.  THEN I will call you a
>>liar (again).
>
>Dr. Bernard Nathanson, a gynecologist who used to run the largest
>abortion clinic in the world, says six to eight weeks.  Oddly enough,
>Dr. Nathanson now finds himself on the pro-life side of things after
>looking seriously at what he was doing.  In the introduction to his
>book _Aborting_America_, I believe he says he was personally
>responsible for performing tens of thousands of abortions.  He's
>not what you would call a religious fanatic either; he's a Jewish
>atheist.  His arguments are mostly built on logic and reason.  

I hate to quote myself, but, when I got home, I felt compelled to
drag out my borrowed copy of _Aborting_America_:

From the Preface:
  "A prominent obstetrician-gynecologist [Dr. Nathanson] in New York
  City, he was as well the only doctor among the handful of 
  activists who founded and ran the National Association for
  Repeat of Abortion Laws (N.A.R.A.L.) [it stands for Nat'l
  Abortion Rights Action League now], which lobbied successfully
  for the removal abortion restrictions in New York and elsewhere.

  ...for besides his NARAL activities, Nathanson had been the
  director of the largest abortion clinic in the world.  In
  reflecting upon his work there, he wrote: 'I am deeply
  troubled by my own increasing certainty that I had in fact
  presided over 60,000 deaths....We are taking life, and the
  deliberate taking of life, even of a special order, and under
  special circumstances, is an inexpressibly serious matter.'"

From Chapter 20 "Signals from Inner Space":
  The Nervous System
    ...There are four negative criteria in the Harvard test, each of
  which is required in order to establish death: no response to external
  stimuli (e.g., pain), no spontaneous movements or respiratory
  efforts, no deep reflexes, and no brain activity as indicated by
  a flat electroencephalogram (EEG).
    ...By day 20 the foundations of the central nervous system, including
  brain and spinal cord, are established.  By day 30, three parts of the 
  brain are present, and the eyes, ears, and nasal organs begin
  to form.  on day 31 the nerve root fibers in the primal spinal
  cord are visible and, on day 33, so is the differentation of the
  cerebral cortex, the section of the brain that governs higher and
  more sophisticated activity.
    By the sixth week, the five primary regions found in the adult
  brain are evident.  As early as day 36, movements have been recorded
  on film, which means the primordial nervous system is stimulating
  the muscles.  The earliest reflex arcs are established at day 42.
  Alpha's [the child's] brain waves have been traced by EEG, as noted,
  as early as 43 days and are always readily discernible by the
  eighth week.  In week 6 or 7 alpha responds to touch.  Clearly, then,
  the parallel to the Harvard Criteria would establish the existence
  of alpha's life by the sixth week of gestation.
    ...By the twelfth embrological week, when brain structure is
  essentially complete, alpha is spontaneously able to kick its
  legs, turn its feet, curl and fan its toes, move its thumbs,
  make a fist, bend its wrists, turn its head, squint, frown, open
  its mouth, suck its thumb, swallow amniotic fluid, and make 
  inhaling-exhaling motions (though air, of course, is not
  inhaled until birth).

That's all I'll cite for now, but this book is absolutely
excellent reading, for both sides of this argument.  Nathanson
comments on the specious arguments made by both sides (including
"Men Don't Get Pregnant," and "Women's Control Over Their
Own Bodies," "Blood and Gore," and "Medical Scare Tactics").

>As a suggestion, Fred, I'd highly recommend your personally making
>use of a public library and the treasures within instead of relying
>on word-of-mouth information for everything.  You could put your
>own doubts completely to rest if you'd simply go to a public library
>and look at some encyclopedias or child development texts.

The suggestion still stands.  

Daryl
-- 
Daryl Biberdorf  N5GJM    dlb5404@rigel.tamu.edu  or  dlb5404@tamsun.tamu.edu
        "You're not messy.  You're organizationally impaired."
                _Real_Life_Adventures_, July 3, 1992