HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Ekrem Saban)
Subject: Re: MOHAMAD THE PROPHET
Organization: Technical University of Vienna
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 09:51:12 GMT

In article <1992Nov7.015432.7477@nucc.cc.nagoya-u.ac.jp> f43703a@nucc.cc.nagoya-u.ac.jp (SUPRATIC GUPTA) writes:


   Suppose there is a option in front of the MUSLIM world.
   The option is :

   The whole world will accept ISLAM, if they don't insist that
   Mohamad is a Prophet. Please note that every one will accept
   every other things.

   What will Muslim world do? Reject that offer because of that.
   Does really that statement mean more then accepting the words
   of ALLAH?

   PLEASE, FOR ALLAH's SHAKE, DON't ANSWER FROM QURAN, I know
   what quran says, speak from your heart. This was the same
   mistake that Christians did. They found the statement that
   "JESUS is son of GOD" more important then his teaching. That
   is why all of you kep fighting. That is why Muslims have seperate
   identity now.

   with regards
   SUPRATIC GUPTA

But if I do not answer regarding the sources of religion, if I forget
about Qur'aan and the Prophet and than call those Would-be-Muslims
which do not want to accept the Prophet as such "Muslims", I would
have done (besides the sin I would gain, of which I'm sure as a
religious Muslim) an "overloading" on the word "Muslim": It's like
calling a high speed "the speed of light" and than finding out that
there are other objects made of matter which have a speed higher than
"the" speed of light. It will bring nothing but confusion in this
case, as the word "Muslim" is defined 14 centuries ago and used in
this sense. So, if smb. calls himself Muslim, perhaps this "smb." is
one. But can you please explain me why you want to mix up the
terminology? 

The Prophet said that Muslims are those (I'm not answering from
Qur'aan now) "who believes that Allah is the only God, and Muhammad is
his last Prophet, that angels exist, that the Holy Books
existed/exists (there were Holy Books sent to prophets (and that
Qur'aan is the last one)), that Allah sent prophets from time to time,
that there will be A ressurection (the Day of Judgement), that good
and bad and the providence is from Allah."  
--
_____ ___ _________________________________________________________ _ ______
  /|  |    	A. Ekrem SABAN	        / 	Technische Universitat Wien
 /_|_ |_  ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at /Inst.f.Techn.Informatik, VLSI-Design
/  |    | "Not only is UNIX dead, /Tel:(43-1)58801/8147,/3384(Mo.17-19 CET)
|  |__ _| it's starting to smell really bad." Rob Pike /Fax:(43-1)569697
From: sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Saif Ahmed)
Subject: Re: My objections to the survey... (just an opinion)
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 16:42:25 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1dcu9eINNpet@CURIE.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU> ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Waiz Ahmed) writes:
    To me it seems it is
   just an ideal excuse for groups of people to fingerpoint at others as
   people they dislike and hence promote some kind of "ranking" on SCB,
   
Isn't that what all those "scb awards" postings were about?

   Surveys are useful
   if they can be employed to improve upon something.  Any attempt to do
   that would violate the very spirit of scb.  

Don't understand this statement, this is how I interpret it. "Any
attempt to improve on something would violate the very spirit of scb."
Is that what you meant to say?

--
                                                                          _
                                                                         / \
 ________________________________________________________________________\_/
/ \  							                   |
\_/                                                                        |
| | Saifuddin Ahmed                                                        |
| | sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu                                             |
| |________________________________________________________________________/
\_/


Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: f43703a@nucc.cc.nagoya-u.ac.jp (SUPRATIC GUPTA)
Subject: I would like to appologise, because ..
Organization: Nagoya University Computation Center, Nagoya, Japan.
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 02:35:55 GMT

ne of our co-readers felt that

I said
>Sorry for if this discussion had created any tension. I am just
>trying to study this problem.

He said
>Wasn't that your intention? You really should read the relevent texts
>and other material before embarking on a project of trying to get
>peoples opinions.


I have already started reading many books on ISLAM, sent to me
by AHMED DEDAT. I don't still have a copy of Quran. I plan to
sstudy from March. I just posed this question because I thought 
that there are many people to enlighten me (really I got many
good answers answwers, appreciating me, thanks to all of you
who had replied to me positively). I have nothing to add to the
discussion. I appologise. I am busy and hence forth stop further
correspondence. I will start again from March. I will try to read
and put up some talk. I personally feel that INTER_RELIGIOUS
MARRIAGE IS AN IMPORTANT TOPIC TO BE ADDRESED. 

All the best brothers,
SUPRATIC GUPTA
JAPAN


Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: sahmed@edvac.cs.oberlin.edu (Saif Ahmed)
Subject: Re: My objections to the survey... (just an opinion)
	<1decn9INNqjs@CURIE.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU>
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:04:40 GMT
X-Posted-From: edvac.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1decn9INNqjs@CURIE.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU> ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Waiz Ahmed) writes:
   In article <1992Nov6.153218.19285@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, kas5213@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:

   > no reason to make it a big deal by not answering. 

   And hence go with the flow and answer it anyway?  No thanks, I prefer
   to think before I do something, and I decided against it for the
   reasons I gave.

As George Bush said at the Earth summit. "Great leaders sometimes have
to stand alone and not go with the others. They have to do what they
think is right" <Not exact quote, flame me for it>
Or to quote the Mazda ad. "Most creatures, instinctively travel in
herds. Others like to stand alone. And for this rare breed ......"
<Inviting flames again>
Unfortunately most of the scbites are neither Great leaders or a rare
breed, or great thinkers for that matter. :) :)

Saif
--
                                                                          _
                                                                         / \
 ________________________________________________________________________\_/
/ \  							                   |
\_/                                                                        |
| | Saifuddin Ahmed                                                        |
| | sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu                                             |
| |________________________________________________________________________/
\_/


Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: f43703a@nucc.cc.nagoya-u.ac.jp (SUPRATIC GUPTA)
Subject: IN?OUT of Islam.
Organization: Nagoya University Computation Center, Nagoya, Japan.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 10:38:46 GMT

I have recieved many responses on the topic of excepting
or rejecting Islam. I will try to be brief in speaking 
about the responses.

1) Some people said that One has no right to reject Islam.
Other said that it is not explicitly mentioned that that one
cannot leave Islam. It might have been implemented to restrain
people from coming in and out of this religion there by making
it a joke.

2) I asked a Question that 
Please answer from your heart not from Quran.

If a man follows all words of Mohamad, Follows only Allah but 
when asked about prophet hood of Mohamad says that it doesnot
matter to me. Any way I follow everything that he said, Is he
a muslim?

The answer was unanimously NO, a Big NO? But I will repeat
the question. Is really excepting that Mohamad is a Prophet
that too the last one is that important. Please use your heart.
Not Quran. Is it more important then love and friendship. Is
it more important then peace. Similar question is for Christianity
also. Is really accepting that JESUS is God's son so important.
How does it effect a person (MUSLIM) who does not get two breads also.
Is providing him with bread less important then excepting that
Mohamad is Prophet?

One friend wrote: "But ask yourself:

'Will I really die just because I don't care to know if this gun
is really loaded?'

I replied to him reframing his own words..

"What will happen if I imagine that a gun is there loaded in front
of my head, when it is not? Any way it doesnot harm. You are safe.
It takes care of the fact the gun can be there, which is not true.
But it is foolish. It stops you from seeing many things because
you had closed your eyes becaused you had asumed that the gun is
near the head. Open your eyes and look if the gun is really there"

he has not yet replied. I will tell you the reply in case he does.
(SORRY FRIEND, FOR USING YOUR WORDS) I am just putting all the
views in public scrutiny. You can decide for yourself really.

IS REALLY THAT STATEMENT THAT MOHAMAD IS A PROPHET MORE IMPORTANT
THEN DEATH AND LIFE, MORE IMPORTANT THEN FRIENDSHIP AND LOVE, MORE
IMPORTANT THEN THE LOVE OF A MUSLIM GIRL FOR A NON_MUSLIM BOY (One
who doesnot like to say that Mohamad is a Prophet, But chooses to
say I don't know). He was just truth being truth ful to himself.

with regards.
I hope this discussion doesnot bring any bad feeling between any
groups. I hope it builds a bridge of friendship. Religion is
for love and friendship. Prove that it is really so.

Why is AHMED SHAKIL not responding to this question? He spoke about
Hinduisim as a part of the discussion. (Sorry Ahmed for calling
name. I respect you. So I would like your participation. I would
like to hear what your heart says, Please not what Quran says. I
know really what Quran says about 5 pillars.)
Xref: sparky soc.culture.bangladesh:5735 soc.culture.pakistan:16485 soc.culture.indian:36497
From: fxm4993@hertz.njit.edu (Farhan Muhammad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: US military assistance to Bangladesh
Date: 10 Nov 92 04:57:01 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.


	Nadeem Malik is right!!! plese say no to U.S. Aid right now, and
	save a  good future for your country...

	I perceive the U.S. Aid as an alm...
	It would probably look very charming in the begining because one
	has all these money flowing in his country, but in long terms its
	a source of big disastrers for a nation..

	You might be able to feel the lethalness of the USAid from the 
	following examples...

	Just for once consider a poor person, who has been mouth fed by
	some lunatic rich person, the rich person continuous it for years 
	since its doesnot effect his economic state any significantly.
	And after few years he suddenly stops feeding the poor one..
	Now what do you think is going to happen to the poor soul..
	Offcourse he will pass through an epitomic state of disasters.
        He is no more used to of working hard and earning his food
	with his own hands.

	This is exactly what happened to Panama few years ago, when US
	suddenly stoped their Aids. Panama government didn't even have
	enough money to pay their govenrment employees...

	Will any nation ever prefer this humiliation by a Super Power ?
	After the Panama's example, and what Americans recently did to
	Pakistan I don't think anyone will be in fever of US Aids to 
	their contries..

	It has been the policy of US government to manupilate the small
        nations in its hands,for long time now.. Giving the money to small
	nations doesn't really help them either. Most of the US grants 
	goes back to US in the form of debts those nations owe to America.
	A very few of it is left for the country's people[if its saved from
	the hands of corrupts beurocrats].

	So, why depend on others to provide for ours needs..???
	I would personaly prefer to eat less, work hardest and live happily 
	with peace.
	 
	Remeber:  a grain earned by own hands taste much better than the
	whole bread fed by others.
		NEVER UNDERESTIMATE YOUR CAPABILITES. 


						With love and warm wishes to
						Bangladeshi brothers...

	pleease mail your responeses to: muhammaf@erau.db.erau.edu.

					Farhan Muhammad
					Embry-Riddle Aeronautical Univ.
					Daytona Beach, Fl 32114.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Naeem Mohaiemen)
Subject: Hindus in parliament
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 06:38:30 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu


Number of minorities in Bangladesh parliament

Year		Total		Number of minorities
1954		309		69	
1973		315		10
1979		315		06	
1986		315		04
1988		300		02

[Source: Hindu Women's rights and family law in Bangladesh (Bengali), Dr.
 Nibedita Das PurKaostho; Narigrantha Publications]

[Table does not make clear if 1954 figure is of unified Pakistan]

--
Naeem Mohaiemen
216-774-1993
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Men have declared those books as the testament of God to keep us in the dark"
					[Begum Rokeya Sakawat Hossain]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------



Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: f43703a@nucc.cc.nagoya-u.ac.jp (SUPRATIC GUPTA)
Subject: POSITION OF HADITS
Organization: Nagoya University Computation Center, Nagoya, Japan.
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 02:14:03 GMT

Dera reader,

   I am chooseing not to reply the three posts be A. Ekrem SABAN

I would like to know some thing before answering them. My regards
to A. Ekrem SABAN for vgiving beautiful replies. 

1) What is the exact defination of ISLAM

2) WHAT IS THE EXACT DEFINATION OF MUSLIM.

3) What is meant by "EXCEPTING ISLAM" and "BECOMING A MUSLIM", is there
any difference?

4) PLease tell me the minimum necessity for EXCEPTING ISLAM/BECOMING A MUSLIM

a) EXCEPT THE QURAN

b) EXCEPT THAT QURAN IS THE WORD OF GOD.

c) EXCEPT THAT MOHAMAD IS A PROPHET

d) Except all HADITS, - as they are words of MOHAMAD

5) Sorry for ignorance, what does "smb" mean?

What if you don't accept all Hadits and reject some of them as one
may feel wrong? Are you considered as a MUSLIM?

Do I have to appreciate every thing that MOHAMAD had done. Ny wife
doesnot feel that multiple marriage of man is correct. EEven I feel
so. Can I for myself amke it it wrong thing, still be a muslim. 
Please understand that I am not a muslim. I am just interested
in it. I am trying to learn it.

with regard
Thanking everyone for being patient
SUPRATIC GUPTA

Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: rafatm@sage.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)
Subject: Re: Pakistan specific post (Re: IMPORTANT MESSAGE
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 13:07:05 GMT

In article <NAEEM.92Nov12193703@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>, naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Naeem Mohaiemen) writes:
> In article <BxL0t8.D3B@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> rafatm@sage.cc.purdue.edu (unknown) writes:>>
> 
>    In article <1992Nov11.213005.13602@ringer.cs.utsa.edu>, tahassan@lonestar.utsa.edu (Tawfiq . Hassan) writes:
>    > The Pakistani American Community of San Antonio, Texas, USA,  is pleased to
>    > announce the formation of PAKISTANI AMERICAN CULTURAL ASSOCIATION OF GREATER
>    > SAN ANTONIO (PACAGSA).
> [deleted]
> 
> >>   Please confine such articles to the soc.culture.pakistan. This is the newsgroup
> >>  for BANGLADESH.       
> ----
> 
> Rafat, while I agree with you that this particular announcement was too 
> specific to be of any interest, the same is not true for all such articles 
> related to Pakistan. I have cross-posted some of my posts on abortion in
> Bangladesh, feminist groups in Bangladesh, etc. because I thouught they
> would be of intererest to other south asians.
> 
> --
> Naeem Mohaiemen
> 216-774-1993
  Agreed. As long as they are also pertinent to Bangladesh.

Regards
Rafat Sadiq
> 
> 
> 


Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: bhattach@quip.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya)
Subject: Re: Marital Status (definition of Hindu)
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 23:39:39 GMT

In article <1d9u5nINNm92@CURIE.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU> ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Waiz Ahmed) writes:
>
>In article <1992Nov04.150158.6486@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>, indu@iss700.Columbia.NCR.COM () writes:
>
>> Actually speaking HINDU is  an  UMBRELLA  like  phenomena.  As  a
>> matter  of  fact,  there  is  no  definition  of  Hindu either In
>> Bhagavat Gita or in Vedas.  Coming to a general  understanding of
>> Hindu - the person who is brought up with Indian traditions, with
>> Indian values, belives in Indian customs and faiths, is a  Hindu.
>> He  should  also  a beliver in the  integrity of  BHARAT and what
>> BHARAT STANDS FOR, be its values,  teritories,  people,  culture,
>> heritage etc,.  (Please note that this is general definition, not
>> a legal-or-technical definition). 
>
>hearing for the first time...  I would be interested in hearing
>whether other Hindus agree with Indu's views on this.
>

I certainly don't agree with what indu@iss700.Columbia.NCR.COM has
written. 

In fact, his words seem surprisingly reminiscent of BJP
propaganda material. The BJP makes the outrageous claim, like 
indu@iss700 does, that Hinduism = Indian nationalism , and even
goes to the extent of making the claim that there exist Hindu 
Hindus, Muslim Hindus and Christian Hindus ! Indu seems to be
making a similar untenable claim. 


>
>A couple of questions: First, I would like to see justification for
>why you find it necessary to say "Especially Islam" in this context.

I think this unsubstantiated comment by Indu ( "especially Islam")
is just an example of the kind of wilful Muslim-baiting that the
BJP seems to love to indulge in.
>

Shubhechhantey,

-Sayan Bhattacharyya
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: f43703a@nucc.cc.nagoya-u.ac.jp (SUPRATIC GUPTA)
Subject: Help in Research work..
Organization: Nagoya University Computation Center, Nagoya, Japan.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 04:11:42 GMT

r friends,
  I am having some prblem in C++, If any one of you are
also using C++ please help me. I have posted the problem 
in comp.lang.C++. Sorry for posting this letter here.

with regards
SUPRATIC GUPTA

Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
From: sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Saif Ahmed)
Subject: Re: US military assistance to Bangladesh
	bernina.ethz.ch>
	<69228@cup.portal.com><ZEESHAN.92Nov10133902@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>
	<69299@cup.portal.com> <ZEESHAN.92Nov11170317@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>
	<69345@cup.portal.com>
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 23:21:38 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <69345@cup.portal.com> hassan@cup.portal.com (hassan monu alam) writes:

   An unwarranted assumption at best. I simply had an Oberlin Grad
   sit for my SATs :-).

If the new law was retroactive, you'd be in big trouble. :)


--
                                                                          _
                                                                         / \
 ________________________________________________________________________\_/
/ \  							                   |
\_/                                                                        |
| | Saifuddin Ahmed                                                        |
| | sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu                                             |
| |________________________________________________________________________/
\_/
From: mermmzh@engvms.unl.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: INDIA TODAY needs correction
Date: 8 Nov 92 12:47:43 CST
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
NNTP-Posting-Host: engvms.unl.edu

In article <1992Nov6.061915.8333@alf.uib.no>, sahni@ii.uib.no (Sahni Daljeet Singh) writes:
>>The 15th October issue of the famous INDIA TODAY 
>>magazine has published a report on the Biharis in
>>Bangladesh.There is also a picture of Baitul
>>Mukarram mosque with some beggars in front of the
>>mosque . the words written under the picture are,
>>" Destitute and diseased refugees protesting before
>>the Bangladesh assembly".
>>I don't know if it is a mistake or intentional?
>                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Why should it be intentional? Can you elaborate?
> 
>>---Zakir
> 
> Daljeet.


well, you may say that by mistake the original picture
was replaced by a picture of Baitul Mukarram. But the 
probability of existence of such a picture, 
where the destitute limbless Biharis protesting before
Bangladesh parliament is almost zero. Because their
problem is not with Bangladesh govt. but pakistan govt.
They did protest in front of the Pakistani Embassy in
Dhaka, but there also you would hardly find any Bihari without
his limbs. So, it seems that the sentence written under the
picture is fabricated to fit with the picture of Baitul
Mukarram.

This report is clearly not sympathetic to the Bengalis. It
has not talked about the bihari's collaboration with the
Pakistani army for killing the Bengalis. Rather, it has given
vivid description of Bengali atrocities and mistreatment
towards the Biharis. A picture of limbless people will
certainly support the views of the report.

---Zakir
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: kazi@dobie.cis.udel.edu (Zunaid Kazi)
Subject: Clinton and Bangladesh
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 17:55:33 GMT

The US American elections are over and  we  see  a  new  Democrat
tenant at the White House after twelve years of Republican tenan-
cy. The question I have been mulling over  is  what  effect  will
Bill Clinton's election have on Bangladesh in general, and on the
Bangladesh economy in particular?

Bangladesh never did play any significant role in  the  blinkered
view  of US self-interest. Even during Ershad's rule and with the
Republican penchant for shoring up dictators who  are  more  than
willing  to  sing US American paeans, Bangladesh was more or less
relegated to a few State Department press releases. With the  end
of the so-called Cold War Bangladesh is even less significant for
US geopolitical interests.

Therefore I expect the major impact, if any, to be on our  econo-
my.  In  general terms any improvement in the US American economy
might result in an improved global economy and a consequent salu-
brious effect on Bangladeshi exports.

How will Clinton's economic policies effect our garment  industry
that  has become our main export earner. I am concerned about the
imposition of even stricter quotas than those which  already  ex-
ist.   The  Reagan-Bush  team  at  least paid some lip-service to
"free" trade, and over the years vetoed a number of  quota  bills
pertaining  to textile imports voted in by the Democrat Congress.
Though there already exists numerous quotas on the type and quan-
tity  of  garments  that Bangladesh can export to the US, we have
been exempt from the more restrictive quotas (such as  have  been
imposed  on  China)  because we happen to fall in the category of
very poor countries.

Clinton's main campaign theme has been the domestic  economy  and
creation  and preservation of jobs. Though he belongs to the "new
breed" of Democrats and thus has a more "Republican" approach  to
economics  he  still  is a Democrat and might be more amenable to
restrictive trade policies which he foresees to be  conducive  to
the  US American economy. Would he allow the imposition of across
the board textile quotas?

On a more positive note, Clinton has been espousing  the  Grameen
Bank  as a model for some of his programs. In that sense he has a
more positive attitude towards us third-world wogs.

Incidently, there has been many  reports  of  Dr.  Yunus  of  the
Grameen Bank having been nominated for the Nobel Prize. Does any-
one know who nominated Dr. Yunus?

- Zunaid Kazi
  kazi@cis.udel.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh