From: daver@felix.filenet.com (Dave Richards)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Flares (was: Re: snow goose)
Date: 18 Aug 92 23:15:21 GMT
Reply-To: daver@fritz.filenet.com (Dave Richards)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Costa Mesa, CA

In article <1992Aug12.162125.12849@phri.nyu.edu> roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes:
>	What does one do with old, outdated, flares?  Is there a safe way
>to dispose of them?

In article <1992Aug13.130901.7848@pdn.paradyne.com> larry@pdn.paradyne.com (Larry Swift) writes:
>I shoot mine off on the 4th of July.  We (and a zillion
>others) are usually on the water then anyway.  Which
>leads me to recount that I now am careful to aim them
>more or less straight up, since I damn near hit another
>boat that was anchored in the dark (no lights).

Somehow this reminds me of an article I read some time ago about
the hundreds of deaths annually from bullets falling out of the
sky in, I think Spain.  It seems the custom there is to discharge
firearms into the air at celebrations like weddings, parties, etc.

Anyway, the logical answer to this question also solves the Spanish
problem:  Don't fire the gun into the air.  Shoot it downwards.  In
the case of flares, just shoot them into the water.  This can't harm
any other boaters, and it won't attract the unwanted attention of any
would-be rescuers.

In <23594@oasys.dt.navy.mil> hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners) writes:
>So here we are, come full-circle.  The original poster spoke of a spontaneous
>firing of a five-year outdated flare.  Does anyone know if old "powder"
>becames unstable?  I recall this to be of concern regarding the battleship
>explosion a few yews ago.

Old powder CAN become unstable, depending on what kind of powder it is and
how it's stored.  I'm not positive as to the type of powder used to shoot
flares.  I assume it's a nitrocellulose-based "smokeless" type.  If stored
properly, this should be stable for decades.  If this "battleship explosion"
is referring to the gun that exploded during loading a few years ago, the
age of the powder was not found to be a factor in the incident.

In article <23637@oasys.dt.navy.mil> siegrist@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Frank Siegrist) writes:
>In answer to Bob's question about explosives becomming unstable, YES
>YES! YES!.  Especially black powder.

Wrong.  Black powder is about the safest propellant there is.  The main
problem with it aging is that it will absorb moisture and lose effective-
ness, NOT become unstable. (By the way, black powder is not really an
"explosive", in that it won't detonate.

  >A word of advice, if you see an explosive and it has gooey stuff
>coming out of it, call for the bomb squad.  Don't even try to move it.

Good advice, though I'm not sure what it has to do with flares.  I really
don't think they contain nitroglycerin, which is the "gooey stuff" your
warning refers to.

>You've got black powder that is ready to go. 

Nope.  The only thing likely to be found oozing from black powder is
whatever you poured on it, or dunked it in.

>In inspecting any of your 
>pyrotechnics, (flares, smoke generators, etc.) if you see any sign of 
>moisture, change of color in the wrapper, or anything else that looks 
>unusual, I would reccomend you get rid of it.  Your local police may 
>take them if they have a bomb disposal squad.

Probably good advice, but pyrotechnic devices such as these are not
explosive so I wouldn't worry about them too much.  The most likely
result of age on a flare shell is reduced effectiveness (may not go
as high or be as bright as a new one).  That's precisely the reason
for testing an old one every so often.  If it works OK then there's
no great hurry to dispose of the others, although you still might want
to buy a few new ones periodically.

I missed the original post about a flare shell spontaneously igniting,
so I can't comment on it except to say that millions of them have been
made and stored over the last century, and this is the first time I've
heard of one popping off on its own.  So the odds of it happening again
in the near future are pretty slim.  I assume that it wasn't sitting on
top of the stove at the time, or something equally ridiculous?  Also,
was this experienced and related first-hand, or was it the infamous 
(and elusive) friend-of-a-friend?

Dave