HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gt6390a@prism.gatech.EDU (BERNSTEIN,AVRON P)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Sagarin ratings of conferences
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:56:23 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


Whoa!  Wait a minute!  If SAGARIN says something, it MUST be so!  Gee, lets
all drop the arguments RIGHT NOW, because Sagarin has set the record straight!
Seriously though, this clown (Sagarin) belongs with Sheridan (the oddsmaker) on
the list of Most Overpaid People with Bogus Jobs!  I am honestly not flaming
the poster of the Sagarin ratings.  My bone is with Sagarin himself.  ANYONE
with a computer can put some equations in a program, read in a data file, and
spit out numbers from now until the heat-death of the universe.  Actually, you
don't even need a computer!  You can do calculations by hand or with a calculator
easily enough.  Likewise, anyone can decide that Team X is 5 points better 
than Team Y.  It should be noted that, the point spreads are for BETTING only.
What I mean is that, if Team X is a 5 point fav today, but a 6 point fav
yesterday, it means that the drop in spread results from "too many" people
betting on Team Y.  The sole purpose of the point spread is to make the
betting on each team as even as possible.  It is only a reflection of teams'
strengths and weaknesses so far as the bettors see different teams in 
defferent ways.  There is no correlation between point spread and winning or
losing a game.
-- 
BERNSTEIN,AVRON P
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt6390a
Internet: gt6390a@prism.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: pdunn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Patrick L Dunn)
Subject: Re: I-AA Attendence (Re: was UNI vs. Iowa in '94???????)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 21:57:22 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.145511.7418@iscsvax.uni.edu> bohy6489@iscsvax.uni.edu writ
es:
>In article <Oct07.202704.70439@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, guest@ulysses.atmos.c
olostate.edu (Guest) writes:

>>Finally, how has UNI been on filling the UNI-dome? Doesn't it seat about 20k
>>fans? It's a great place to have a ball game, I played 2 high school games up
>>there in 1980 and 81 while on the Cedar Rapids Washington team when we played
>>Cedar Falls. It was fun, and the fans had a great time. I know that they fill
>> it for most Basketball games.....

>The Dome seats 16,000 for football, and around 22,500 for basketball (but they
>only do that when Iowa or ISU comes to town - it is usually around 10,000 for
>basketball).  It is rarely if ever full, at least that was the case when I was
>in undergrad.  I think most people still go to see the marching band (IMHO
>better than ISU's, or at least it used to be).  It's a great place if you like
>domes and artificial turf.

>> J. Knowles

>Jim Bohy

Just a thought--

I-AA stadium size and more importantly attendence is crucial when the playoffs 
come aouond.  The highest ranked team in a tournament pair will not necessarily
get a home-field advantage.  Athletic directors at the two schools submit bids 
for the game based upon predicted attendence.  If a team draws well, then the
athletic director can submit a higher bid.

One exception to this is the number one team in the final poll, which seems to
get all its games at home regardless.  (UNI fans, take note).

Schools such as Marshall and Georgia Southern, which can put 25,000+ fans in
their home stadiums for playoff games, are always at a distinct advantage come
playoff time.  That is one of the reasons why Georgia Southern did so well in
the mid and late 1980's in I-AA.  They never had to leave home for a playoff
game (except the championship, which is always at a predetermined site).

So you see, even I-AA football is tainted by money lust.

PDunn
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: kmartin@dogwood.cray.com (Kenneth B. Martin)
Subject: Re: Miss St 14, Auburn 7
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 12 Oct 92 11:08:28 CDT

In article <1992Oct11.153351.1@ducvax.auburn.edu> swanger@ducvax.auburn.edu writes:
>Mississipi St.  14
>Auburn           7
>
>Sigh.
>
>While I'm at it, in the 2nd half, Auburn was called for defensive pass
>intereference.  The AU announcers (never known for their objectivity) swore
>it should have been offensive pass interference instead.  The play gave MS a
>big gain.  I didn't see the play, so I don't know.  How about it, those of
>you who saw the play, what do you think??  (be honest now...)
>
>Oh well, next week, Auburn versus Florida in Gainesville.  I'll be there!!
>
>-- 
>David Swanger,   Auburn University, Alabama,   swanger@accs.duc.auburn.edu 


It should have been offensive pass interference!  But, oh well, no use
crying over things that can't be changed.  The game is over and Miss. St.
won.  The Auburn offense is disgusting.  Week after week (with very few
exceptions) they give the Auburn faithful a need to devour an entire 
pack of Tums or Rolaids.  Why can't they just get their shit together 
anyway?

Well, I'll be at the AU/UF game in Gainesville next week too!  Let's 
hope Auburn bounces back from this "all-too-normal" loss.

WAR EAGLE

--Ken

--
===========================================================================
Ken Martin, Sales Analyst                   Phone:  (404) 631-2244
Cray Research South Government District     EMAIL:  kmartin@sedist.cray.com
===========================================================================
From: schmke@cco.caltech.edu (Kevin Todd Schmidt)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Schmidt Computer Rankings through 4-Oct
Date: 7 Oct 1992 21:32:37 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes) writes:

>In article <1av0m3INNe3j@gap.caltech.edu>
>   schmke@cco.caltech.edu (Kevin Todd Schmidt) writes:
> 
>>I welcome comments and suggestions.
> 
> 
>Ok, I've got a comment.
> 
> 
>>5    Stanford                  86.745   4-1-0  77.989  ( 18,  79.905)  +13
> 
>>19   Texas_A&M                 80.726   5-0-0  74.433  ( 17,  80.645)  -2
> 
> 
>Did you forget that A&M *beat* Stanford?  For that matter, how can
>ND still be ranked higher than Stanford?  You've got a serious
>problem with your program.....

No I didn't forget that A&M beat Stanford.  Each game that a team plays
has the same effect and nothing is done for head to head meetings.  The
reason A&M is #19 is due to their small margins of victory and the
strength of their opponents.  A&M's average margin is only 7.4 points
while Stanford's is 12.6 which includes a negative margin in their loss.
Stanford's strength of schedule is also 3.5 points higher.

Notre Dame is still ranked higher than Stanford again because head to
head meetings are not any more special than another game.  Notre Dame
also has very big margin's of victory against teams that are not
terrible teams.  Perhaps I should not reward big margin of victories
as much as I presently do.

Kevin
-- 
Jet Propulsion Laboratory | schmke@cco.caltech.edu
4800 Oak Grove Dr.        | schmidt@spc5.jpl.nasa.gov
M/S 525-3684              |
Pasadena, CA  91109       |
From: tannerg@carson.u.washington.edu (Glenn Tanner)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Miss St 14, Auburn 7
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:15:57 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

>This was Alabama vs. Rice (an excellent school - I can understand how
>you thought of Georgia Tech ;-> ) in the 1954 Cotton Bowl.  The player
>in question was 'Bama fullback Tommy Lewis.  Rice was awarded a TD
>on the play and went on to win 28-6.  Lewis went to the Rice dressing
>room at the half to apologize.
>
>And for all you Intergraph fellers, Tommy lives in Huntsville and is
>a State Farm Insurance agent.  

You wouldn't happen to know what Cecil Burt's story is, would you?

GT

>-- 
>Mark Mitchell           Georgia Tech            mm42@prism.gatech.edu
>   "Close only counts in horseshoes and hand-grenades."
>                                 "And computer rating systems."

I got pulled from a baseball game one time after giving up a bunch of seeing-
eye hits, and my coach said, "Close only counts in horseshoes and washers."
Washers?!  What the hell is that?
From: moores@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Stephen Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Biggest Rivalry in the Country?
Date: 12 Oct 92 04:54:56 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4


   The auburn game is definitely the most important game for ALABAMA fans.
It is also the biggest rivalry in the country.  As a life long ALABAMA fan,
that is the one game I would want ALABAMA to win if they could only win one
game all year.  There has even been a book written about this rivalry.



                   moores@csugrad.cs.vt.edu
       auburn stands for Alabama Usually Beats Us Red Necks!!!!!
                         ^       ^       ^     ^  ^   ^
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: acdendy@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (ROGER DENDY)
Subject: Re: turtles,cannons,airhorns
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date:  7 Oct 1992 13:16 EST  

In article <1992Oct6.150627.23535@mailer.cc.fsu.edu>, joconnor@evax12.eng.fsu.edu writes...
>how do cannons and turtles go together?

..

>before ya know it hawaii will have pots of gold in the endzone!
> 

They have to get 'em away from Notre Dame first.  [Alway after me lucky 
charms.]

>James O'Connor                          North Carolina-vs-FSU
>JOCONNOR@evax.eng.fsu.edu               Oct 10,1992   12:00pm

R Dendy
From: zjsg12@hou.amoco.com (Jeffry S. Gracey)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: UT at Austin seriously???
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:15:17 GMT
Reply-To: zjsg12@hou.amoco.com
Organization: Amoco

In article 8612@ringer.cs.utsa.edu, crobbins@lonestar.utsa.edu (Chris S. Robbins) writes:
>In article <1992Oct15.183943.6402@ods.com> david@ods.com (David Engel) writes:
>>R. Jayakrishnan (jaykay@orion.oac.uci.edu) wrote:
>>:   But seriously, when will the aggies stop crapping about how bad the
>>:   Texas team is ?   Our losses have only been against two top-15 teams,
>>:   and at least one of the two games we could have won, but for the QB and
>>
>>Oh, yeah!  Well, our losses have only been against ...  Oops, I almost
>>forgot, we don't have any losses.  <grin>
>>
>>David
>
>
> Well, how many ranked teams have you played besieds Stanford?
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  
> How many of the unranked and rank smelling teams have you blownout?
>
> The answer to both is _zero_.
>
> I love college football (especially in Texas) !!!
>
> -Chris.

This is weak Chris. Excuse me, but I was always under the impression that
EVERY game in a season counted, EVEN the first one. Since when did this 
change?



________________________________________________________________________
 _______
|   |   |  Gig 'Em Aggies !! Class 0f 91. Once an Aggie, always an Aggie
    |      -------------------------------------------------------------
    |      Jeff S. Gracey        E-MAIL ADDRESS zjsg12@gsb.hou.amoco.com
    |      Amoco Production Co.
  A | M    Houston, Texas
   ---
________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: swanger@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: Miss St 14, Auburn 7
Organization: Auburn University, AL
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 12:49:51 GMT

In article <dkm2.718842101@Isis.MsState.Edu>, dkm2@ra.msstate.edu (David K. Magee) writes:

> After 
> talking with people from AU and Bama, I see why there is such an intense 
> rivalry.  It is a big cultural difference just like MSU & Ole Miss.

Its funny, before the AU-Mississippi game, the Ole Miss fans were VERY
friendly.  My wife and I spent several hours walking and driving around
Oxford and several people were very nice to us when they discovered we were
AU fans.  The same was true during and after the game (AU lost, 45-21).  I
sat next to some Ole Miss fans at the game who had a great sense of humor. 
I only heard one taunter and he was a drunk kid, staggering around the hotel
bus.  

Of course, these same sweet friendly Ole Miss fans HATE HATE HATE Miss. St.
and they think Jackie Sherrill is the anti-Christ....

-- 
David Swanger,   Auburn University, Alabama,   swanger@accs.duc.auburn.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: ellingrw@infonode.ingr.com (Bob Ellington)
Subject: Re: JP SEC GotW?
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 21:02:10 GMT

In article <70655@hydra.gatech.EDU> mm42@prism.gatech.EDU (Mark Mitchell) writes:
>nelson@clunker.b21.ingr.com (nelson jordan) wrote:
>}
>} Anybody know what this Saturdays' JP SEC Game of the Week is?  
B
>
>Jefferson-Pilot, in its infinite wisdom, has selected the pivotal
>SEC matchup of Arkansas at Tennessee. 
>
>I suspect JP wanted to show us *5* Arkansas games in a row, but
>unfortunately they have the week off October 24.  We are forced to
>settle for just 4 Piggie games in 5 weeks.
>
>Thank God they aren't trying to force us to watch the meaningless
>games like Auburn at Mississippi State and LSU at Florida!
>
>[ No :-)'s, but one big :-(. ]
>
>-- 
>Mark Mitchell           Georgia Tech            mm42@prism.gatech.edu
>       "Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing 
>         swords is no basis for a system of government!"

Apparently those JP guys infinite widom was much better than any
of us thought.  Arkansas knocks off Tennessee in front of 90,000+
Tennessee fans 25-24.  Was it Danny Ford?  Did Al Gore really ask
Tennessee to not beat his boss's Alma Mater?  Would Tennessee have
played better/differently if Johnny Majors had not returned yet?

Most likely it was from looking ahead to the game agains another
team dressed in Red & White and sporting a big "A".  Those colors
seem to doom this Voluntear team.  

Bob E.  (Tenn loses, Penn St. loses, Ohio St. loses, I missed em all!)
From: milius@proton.med.umn.edu (Bob Milius (BMEC))
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Pac10 is the best conference so far
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:46:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Minnesota

In article <Bw6uAx.69G.2@cs.cmu.edu> landay+@cs.cmu.edu (James A Landay) writes:
>Tonight on ESPN, Chris Fowler claimed that the SEC was the MOST overrated
>conference this season (though he did say they were normally very tough,
>but having an off year.)  
>
>In addition, he said that the SEC played only one top 25 team in something 
>like 25 out of conference games. He compared this to the conference mentioned
>in the subject line and said they played ~10 teams out of conference in the 
>top 25 and had a winning record against them.... Is this really true?  Is 
>the SEC not as good this year?  I thought that football was only played in 
>the South!

I don't know if the SEC is overrated or not. With only 3 out-of-conference
games per team available, it is difficult to compare. I generally follow
the Big10, which has been having difficult times lately. The following is a
list of the CURRENT top25 (AP) teams the Big10 has played:
 #1 Washington              (Wisconsin)
 #2 Miami                   (Iowa)
 #8 Stanford                (Northwestern)
 #7 Colorado                (Iowa, Minnesota)
#12 Notre Dame              (Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Purdue)
#14 Syracuse                (Ohio State)
#20 Boston College          (Michigan State, Northwestern)
#21 North Carolina State    (Iowa)

13 games with 8 top25 teams out of a possible 31 spots 
(3x10 + Iowa's kickoff game). Penn State schedule not taken into account
NO Div IAA schools (as far as I can tell)
Big-10 did poorly this year (1-6-1)
Since only Michigan is currently ranked, there are 24 possible top25 teams
they could play.

the SEC's out of conference games against top25 teams:
 #5 TexasA&M                (LSU)
 #6 Florida State           (Florida)
#16 Georgia Tech            (Georgia)
#19 Clemson                 (South Carolina)
4 games out of a possible 36 spots (12 members x 3)
so far 0-1-0 but three more games to be played
also, 3 Div I-AA schools plus Arkansas St which just entered Div IA this year.

However, the SEC does have 5 teams ranked in the *current* AP top25, so 
there are only 20 other teams which they could play. 
 #4 Alabama
#10 Georgia
#13 Tennessee
#15 Miss. State
#23 Florida

Make your own conclusions.

I haven't looked at the other conferences, but I suspect that the
Pac10, ACC, and BigEast have challenging out-of-conference schedules.

-note: this information is subject to change with the opinions of sportswriters
and coaches throughout as the season progesses.

-bob
a Michigan fan


-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Milius                                        milius@lenti.med.umn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: skipb@cwis.unomaha.edu (Skip Burrell)
Subject: Re: PENN STATE BEATS MIAMI!!!!!
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 16:42:16 GMT

dhead@comanche.ess.harris.com (David Head) writes:

>You people at Penn State are lamenting the fact that you statistically outplayed
>Miami and lost ONE game?  How do you think we FSU fans feel?  We have statistically
>outplayed Miami most years (this year included, check the yards passing, yards
>rushing, return yards, etc.) and lost.  Has ANY other team in America lost so
>much at the hands of one opponent as FSU has to Miami?  I think not.  FSU has

Well, actually I'm reminded of the way Nebraska lost to Oklahoma during the 
'70s. Took us 8 long years to finally get that monkey off our back. And at
least half of the games were lost despite having the batter stats.


>been able to regularly beat any school they have played over the past 5 years
>except Miami.  What's my point?  I don't know, I'm just frustrated.  FSU and Miami
>are the only two teams in the country to finish even in the top 15 for the past
>5 years straight and Miami has all of the national championships.  Even the year
>we beat them (1989 in Tallahassee, 24-10) they won the national championship.

>Mark Mitchell made a good point regarding the ACC.  We began the season with 5
>teams in the top 25 and still have ... 5 teams in the top 25!  Only the SEC can
>match that.

--
Skip Burrell				Internet:	skipb@unomaha.edu
Comp. Sci. Graduate Student		compuserve: 	76146,2323
University of Nebraska at Omaha		AOL:		skipb
My Disclaimer: Any opinion I may have stated was purely unintentional!
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:45:13 EDT
From: mark rieker <MJR127@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Biggest Rivalry in the Country?
Distribution: usa

        I can't believe it!  Notre Dame-USC?  Harvard-Yale?  How can anybody
     make a list of great football rivalries without including the grandaddy
     of them all?  No, not Penn State -Pitt but my hometown favorite rivalry..

             Lehigh vs. Lafayette !!!

      This year will be somewhere around the 113th game between the two.

      C'mon guys, sombody should have known this!  And why not any Lehigh
      posters to put this up?

      Go Lions!!!!!         Go Engineers!!!!!!
                            ^
                            |
                            |
                            That's Lehigh for you non-Pennsylvanians
-------
========================================================================
  Mark Rieker        We are Penn State      Go Atlanta Braves!
                                         1991 National League Champions!!

  mjr127@psuvm.psu.edu ---- ricker@pacific.cmpe.psu.edu

 "Who cares about grades? Who cares about life? Who cares about me?....
  Not me that's for sure!!" --  The Young Ones
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: mzhao@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Min Zhao)
Subject: Re: PENN STATE BEATS MIAMI!!!!!
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 02:32:46 GMT

In article <92286.205305RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu> <RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>On Saturday afternoon, the Penn State Nittany Lions beat the Miami Hurricanes
>in every statistical category except for return yards, and the most important
>one, interceptions.  
 
     And you seem to forget the not strivial statistics, the final score.
What is it , by the way ? 

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: kevin@traffic.den.mmc.com (Kevin Rodgers)
Subject: Re: AP Top 25 (Was Re: Miami Can Not Be Denied!!!)
Organization: Buffalo Stampede
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 22:57:26 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.194138.18716@u.washington.edu> apalon@stein.u.washington.edu (Andrew Alleman) writes:
>Enough of this.  I'm not trying to stress the validity of the common
>opponent thing.  I'm just contending that a common opponent is a
>better measuring stick than more complicated scenarios involving
>transitivity (although I admit it is definitely not proof of anything).

Mighty big of you to admit it :-)  How many superhero decoder rings do
you get for a U-dub degree?

But seriously, Andy, think about what you're saying: If A and C have
common opponent B, and A beats B by 21 points and C beats B by 3 points,
then A should be ranked over C; yet if A beats B who beats C, A should
not necessarily be ranked over C because that's a "more complicated
scenario involving transitivity."  You can't have the former without the
latter.

>Obviously, the only true test is for the teams to play
>each other. But, barring that, what do the pollsters do other than
>look for objective scales for comparison?

They look for mutually supportive subjective and objective metrics.
-- 
Kevin Rodgers				kevin@traffic.den.mmc.com
Martin Marietta MS A16401		(303) 790-3971
116 Inverness Dr. East
Englewood CO 80112 USA			GO BUFFS!
From: mhorbove@digi.lonestar.org (Mike)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: ut football
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:57:56 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications, Plano Tx.


From: CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes)

>*sniff*  I'm touched.  No, really!  I didn't think you guys cared
>that much for (about) us.     ;-)
>

aaahhh, i don't.  although i have been pulling for a&m in non-conference
games (stanford, lsu, tulsa).

>Perhaps you would *really* like it for us to continue the last 8 years
>worth of win/loss ratio?  Shouldn't take all that much longer to
>catch up, eh?
> 

well according to the official record guru below, it will take 40
years.  

>From: gws6860@tamsun.tamu.edu (Gary Wayne 'Goober' Smith)
>
>In the past 8 years, A&M has a 0.875 winning percentage over the cattle.  
>At that rate, the series will be tied in 2032.
>

 *YAWN*  i can hardly wait.  it almost seems like tomorrow.

>In the past 8 days, the percentage of cattle dung spewed forth into this 
>newsgroups has increase by a factor of at least 10.  At that rate, r.s.f.c.
>will turn into alt.closet.cattle.trying.to.convince.everyone.that.we've.been.
>proud.of.being.cows.all.along in approximately 16 days.
>

that's MR. cow to you...;-)

>- goober (i think i'll grill up a nice big steak tonight) smith
>

you've been giggin' yourself too much, goober.  you're gonna go
blind. :):)


mike

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-- 
Michael D Horbovetz                            mhorbove@digi.lonestar.org     
DSC Communications Corporation                 Plano, Tx  75075