HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: paul@svl.cdc.com (Paul Kohlmiller)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Men's Marathon -- full of surprises
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:16:22 GMT

hillyer@rrc.chevron.com (Martin J. Hillyer) writes:

>In article 4435@verifone.com, ken_p1@verifone.com () writes:

>---  stuff deleted ---

>>It will be interesting to find out what happened to Bordin, Garcia, Ikangaa,
>>Spence, Moneghetti, Decastella, Hussein, etc. as the Triplecast directors left
[...]
I heard Bordin dropped out (abandoned as they say) fairly early.
>BTW, did anyone get the triplecast channels? (my cable company didn't offer them.)  I heard that the announcers were the worst, far worse than the regular NBC broadcast.  Comments?
I thought it was interesting when NBC showed a "stride analysis" of Steve Spence. I wonder if it would help a slow 10K jogger like me. I wish they did more of
this kind of analysis especially a comparison with the medal winners.
In general, I think covering a 2hr. 15min. running event is quite difficult. At
the rates NBC is paying (401 million dollars I read somewhere) they just have to
have some commercials and sooner or later something interesting will happen
during a commercial.
--
     // Paul H. Kohlmiller             //  "Cybers, Macs and Mips"    //
     // Control Data Systems, Inc.    // Internet: paul@svl.cdc.com  //
     // Acronym under construction.  // America Online: Paul CDC    //
     // All comments are strictly my own. I won't lie but my       //
     // perception of reality is at best a personal hunch.        //
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: 10k-half-marathon
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:54:23 GMT
Organization: NASA/MSFC

gkc@freddie.udev.cdc.com (gordon k chace x2367) writes:

>In article <1992Aug11.224014.2106@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, lari@saadi.berkeley.edu (Francesco Lari) writes:
>|> How do you relate the times of 10k, half marathon and marathon? That is, if

>One approximation is to adjust pace by 5% to 6% for each doubling or halving
>of distance.

Okay, Gordon, that sounds pretty good - but is this approximation good for
any event that crosses 'the Wall'? I mean, adjusting by 5% sounds fine for
something that can be handled glycogenically, and all that...8-)

jes' wonderin'

jim p.
-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
Huntsville,AL (205)461-4922  
This life is a test. It is only a test. If it had been a real life, you 
would have been given instructions....
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: sah@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (samuel.a.hoke)
Subject: Soggy shoes
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 19:15:31 GMT
Keywords: shoes rain wet soggy

Having just run several consecutive days in rainy weather, I've pondered
the topic of soggy shoes at length.  My Nike Anodynes get soggy and lose
all their cushioning when wet (very aggravating on long runs).  They also
get very heavy from all the absorbed water.  They net result is that they
feel like bricks tied to my feet, rather than running shoes.

Question: Are there some shoes that behave better when wet than others?
Specifically, do the gel filled shoes or those with sealed air chambers
behave similarly?  I'd like some good recommendations for "rain shoes".

As an alternative, I might consider a pair of racing flats for running in
the rain.  Of course they have no cushioning to begin with, but they will
probably absorb much less water and not feel so heavy.

Sam
From: page@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Thomas Page)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: carbo/Protein requirement
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:41:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Aug19.204123.20040
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department

In article <1992Aug19.200317.2234@odin.corp.sgi.com>, raym@runner.asd.sgi.com (Raymond Mascia) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug19.155453.9496@cs.ucla.edu>, page@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Thomas Page) writes:
|> |> The consensus from when this discussion has been had before is that runners need
|> |> more protein than body builders, but even so, the average American diet |> Tom
|> 
|> I believe you have this reversed. Protein builds bulk.  Carbos for fuel.
|> Bodybuilders want bulk.
|> 
|> Ray

Not reversed. Just counterintuitive.  Protein is used to build muscles, but
nowhere near as much as most of us eat.  Long distance runners do much more
muscle damage than do body builders.  They just do it to a type of muscle fiber
that does not heal back much bigger, and hence don't build much bulk.
Tom
Newsgroups: rec.running,misc.fitness
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: 1/4 miles in 46 seconds - what's a decent pace for fat people?
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:10:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.201657.29215@crd.ge.com> berkery@emmax5crd.ge.com (jack berkery) writes:
>
>
>Equivalent times for runners of different weights. Based on results from
>races which have included "Clydesdale" weight divisions in their competition.
>Source: Clydesdale Runners Association. These are from all age groups. In
>time they may get enough data to break it down by age group as well. 

I think height is as important as weight.  A person is unlikely to break a
three hour marathon unless they are lighter than average for their height.
For example, for my height 5'10", average is about 163 and the healthy range
145-180.  People in the lower half of healthy have an easier time running
than in the high half.  You want to bump these numbers up two or three pounds
for every additional inch of height.
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: page@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Thomas Page)
Subject: Re: 10k-half-marathon
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 15:53:44 GMT

This month's Runners World says multiply your 10k time by 4.6666.  If I apply
this to myself, my marathon time should a good bit faster than it is.  I
interpret this to mean I have come much closer to achieving my full potential in
the 10k (by training 40 miles per week) than I have to my marathon potential.
I have also been willing to race all out in 10Ks, but have been quite
conservative in marathons, not wanting to hurt badly for so much longer. 
That is probably true for most of us.  My friends who have tried to train near
optimally for the marathon have achieved just about what this formula predicts.
Tom
Xref: sparky rec.running:2318 misc.fitness:6824
From: banchy@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (Banchy thomas g (410) 461-2216)
Newsgroups: rec.running,misc.fitness
Subject: Re: 1/4 miles in 46 seconds - what's a decent pace for fat people?
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:46:35 GMT
Reply-To: banchy@aplcen (Banchy thomas g (410) 461-2216)
Organization: Johns Hopkins University

This thread reminded me to ask a question I've been wondering about: for
those people who have gotten reasonably big from lifting (e.g. Chris Long),
and do some aerobic work on the side, what sort of running times can be
expected for various distances?  I've heard that muscle mass affects
running times even more than the weight would lead one to believe, but
some actual data would be interesting.  Besides, I think this would be
a more telling indicator of aerobic fitness than pulse, which generated
a good number of posts.  So, how about posting height, weight, and best 
time for 1 mile, 5K, 10K, and marathon (or estimates).  Also, does 
anyone els ehave a better candidate for optimal balance of physique
and aerobic fitness than the triathlete?

Tom 
-- 
=============================================================================
 Tom Banchy       banchy@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu      banchy@tron.bwi.wec.com
 "babble, burble, banter, bicker...bicker...bicker"  -King Crimson
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: hpzg0650@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Hale P Zengingonul)
Subject: 10K heats
Summary: When was the semi final for 10k (men) during olympics?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:57:58 GMT
Keywords: 10k running




           Was there a semi-final or heats for men's 10K at the olympics, if
   yes when was this? Also I'd like to have the complete schedule of the 
   olympics, where can I find it?

						Pinar Zengingonul
						pinar@aero.ece.uiuc.edu
Xref: sparky rec.running:2296 misc.fitness:6761
From: ronnie@uts.amdahl.com (Ronnie Townsend)
Newsgroups: rec.running,misc.fitness
Subject: Re: 1/4 miles in 46 seconds - what's a decent pace for fat people?
Date: 18 Aug 92 06:10:03 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <Bt5qu2.LFr@news.cso.uiuc.edu> hpzg0650@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Hale P Zengingonul) writes:
>
>>I am 23 yrs old, 245 lbs, 6'4".   When I was running the mile 7 yrs ago,
>>I was the same height and ~155 lbs.  I feel I am in decent shape, but
>>I have gotten a little on the heavy side and I want to do some stuff
>>for my c/v fitness.
>
>  Are you sure about the distance? The world record for 400 meters is ~40 sec.
>1/4 mile is a little over 400m. If I were you I would check the distance
>again.

I would second that notion. The record is actually 43.29 set by Butch "I was
framed" Reynolds. To do one in 46 seconds places you on the cusp of world-class.
If you check it and the time and distance turns out to be legit.. You will be 
needing and agent and I'm prepared to offer my services as you are about to 
become very rich! :-) 


-- 
Ronnie
-------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not cynical... I just don't believe in anything....
From: lamontg@milton.u.washington.edu (Lamont Granquist)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Soda Pop
Date: 13 Aug 92 22:35:49 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: 'Operation: Mindcrime'

dbd@cbnews.cb.att.com (david.b.delorme) writes:
>The regular drinks just have sugar (along with all the preservatives).
>So, I'd run off the extra calories from the sugar than drink
>the synthetic stuff.

Aspartame is just a dipeptide with aspartic acid and phenylalanine, and
therefore just a source of amino acids.  You do get them in slightly
higher than normal quantities, but any effect of that is highly 
debatable -- the quantity is much less than supplimentation from stuff
at health food stores -- I think you get about 100mg of amino acids at
the most from aspartame.  Calling it merely "synthetic" is misleading. 

Of course the sweet taste will cause you to start producing insulin but
w/o raising your glucose level...

-- 
Lamont Granquist  lamontg@u.washington.edu  (anon: ap.2187@cupid.sai.com)
University of Washington, Seattle.    Disc: if UW ever finds out what I post... 
alt.drugs FTP site: ftp.u.washington.edu[128.95.136.1] dir:/public/alt.drugs
               For quotes and other useless info see my .plan
From: terry@jgaltstl.UUCP (terry linhardt)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: carbo/Protein requirement
Date: 20 Aug 92 00:40:51 GMT
Organization: The Lafayette Group, St. Louis, MO.

In article <1992Aug19.080623.24625@cam-orl.co.uk>, dawb@cam-orl.co.uk (Dave Brooke) writes:
> 
> 
> 	Does anyone belive in upping the Protein concentration in a diet for athletes?
> 
> 	I ask this as I am hearing about a swim coach who is ordering his swimmers (down to about 11 years) to start drinking Protein Supplement drinks and I don't believe that this is the best recommendation for training athletes. Am i wrong or is he?

Many of the ironheads in misc.fitness believe in protein supplements.
However, the only problem most people in the developed portions of
the world have is too much protein in the diet. It is almost 
impossible to get too little protein in the diet.

BTW, endurance athletes have higher protein needs than weight
lifters, because in periods of long exercise ( > 1 hour) the
body derives some of its energy needs from protein. However, these
amounts can readily be obtained in the American diet, even if
you are a vegetarian.
-- 
  Terry Linhardt                ...!wupost!jgaltstl!terry 
                                terry%jgaltstl.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu
From: tordm@vana (Tord Malmgren)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: about the FAQ
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:33:10 GMT
Reply-To: TordM@VanD.PhySto.SE
Organization: Department of Physics, University of Stockholm -- Sweden


 Hello! I just read the FAQ for this group. I noticed a section about
burning calories and thus, and I think it should be mentioned that you
burn most with a pulse (heart-beat) or 70% of max pulse, so all those
tables must be based on a specific pulse, and I'd suggest it is 70% of max...





---------------+--------------------------------
 Tord Malmgren | InterNet: TordM@VanD.PhySto.SE | These opinions are my own,
               | BITNet  : TordM@SESUF51        | and NOT of this department!
---------------+--------------------------------
 Department of Physics, University of Stockholm 
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: kim@jpusa1.chi.il.us (Kim Heiss)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: advice for hamstrings
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:48:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: jpusa1.1992Aug14.154830.4989
Reply-To: kim@jpusa1.chi.il.us (Kim Heiss)
Distribution: na
Organization: JPUSA - Chicago, IL


Greetings!

Anybody out there have any GOOD advice for
hamstring injuries? There seems to be a 
great deal of info everywhere on knees, but
little else. I've had a nagging (since March)
deep, dull to sharp pain in my hamstring midway
up (about 6" above the knee) that won't go away.
It seems to radiate up into the inside of my leg 
at times. It doesn't hurt to bend my knee, but
hurts to swing my leg forward or back or to bend
and touch my toes.I think the toe off in my gait
is what continues to irritate it. It all began
with an over zealous approach to a new speed
workout. I have tried a number of things; time off,
(up to a month), NSAIDS, stretching, lots of ice,etc.
I've been to both an MD (got the "well if it hurts to
run, don't run " answer) : ( , and to an chiro. for
ultrasound. The worst thing is that I don't have a
real diagnoses, so this is all shot in the dark stuff
anyway. I can't afford a "for-live" sports med clinic,
or I'd go there. The ones in Chicago seem to be very
expensive and don't have sliding scales as a rule. 

So, any advice or miracles would be appreciated. I have
been swimming laps and light weights along with LOW
mileage runs (no more than 3 mi.) to keep up.
Sorry for the novel....: ) kh
-- 
kim
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: jac@noaacrd.colorado.edu (Julia Collins)
Subject: Re: Help with lung problem
Organization: NOAA Climate Research Division
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:09:39 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.141951.148@walter.cray.com> kjberte@cray.com writes:
>
>Lately I have been having breathing problem about 2 miles into to run.  I just
>can't get very much air into my lungs, they seem to tighten up.  I had no 
>problems before.  
>....
>Background: Asthama problem 8 years ago.
>....
>Does any one have an idea of what the problem is?
>
>Near Breathless,

Given your asthma history, this sounds a lot like exercise-induced
asthma. Get thee to a doctor - I think this can be easily controlled
with inhalers, etc.

Great progress - keep running!

Julia
.................................................................
: e-mail:       jac@noaacrd.colorado.edu			:
:...............................................................:
: Given that true intellectual and emotional compatibility are  :
: at the very least difficult, if not impossible, to come by,   :
: we could always opt for the more temporal gratification of    :
: sheer physical attraction.  That wouldn't make you a shallow 	:
: person...would it? 	 		- Lyle Lovett		:
:...............................................................:
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: sedayao@sousa.intel.com (Jeff Sedayao)
Subject: Re: Weight (was Re: 10k-half-marathon)
Reply-To: sedayao@chopin.intel.com
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 00:55:14 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.191202.1099@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov>, puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett) writes:

[stuff deleted]

> Hmmmm....i'm getting ready for my first (only!) marathon, and i've heard 
> a good bit about weight....
> 
> RUMORS
> 1. One should be about %10 under ideal weight for the marathon
> 2. For every pound above ideal weight, you lose 2 sec/mi  OR 1 min on the 
> 	marathon.

I have heard that for each 3 pounds of weight one gains, one loses 30 seconds
per mile.  Don't know how true that is for everyone, but my experience is fairly
close after gaining weight :-(.

> Of course, i don't know how to find out my ideal weight! I saw a chart at
> the shopping center near my house that had my ideal weight listed at 135 -
> I'm 5-9 ; I can't help but wonder if they have exaggerated it a bit, as
> the chart was in front of one of those weight-loss clinics 8-)!

> Right now my weight is about 155.5 - and i'm a little scared that i ought
> to lose some, but i can't find any body fat to lose...8-/. What's real
> here?

I think that it's exaggerated.  I remember seeing one height weight table.
The entry for men at 5-8 was a range that went over 160 pounds!

If you are really concerned about weight and fat, you might want to 
get your percentage body fat measured.  That to me would seem
to be a better measure than a height/weight combination.

> just one more mile,
> jim p.
> 
> -- 
> Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
> Huntsville,AL (205)461-4922  
> This life is a test. It is only a test. If it had been a real life, you 
> would have been given instructions....

-- 
Jeff Sedayao
Intel Corporation
sedayao@chopin.intel.com
..!uunet!intelhf!chopin!sedayao
From: jrp@bohra.cpg.oz.au (John Pitman)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: starting blokcks
Date: 16 Aug 92 07:42:00 GMT
Organization: Computer Power Software

Hi there-
here's a question for you runners - when and where were starting blocks
invented , and when were they patented?
Of course, those who saw the stuff on Tv today keep your noses out please
until
we get some funny guesses
jp
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: robin@cs.columbia.edu (Jacques Robin)
Subject: Size of olympic runners
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 17:59:35 GMT


Does anyone on this net know the height and weight of the following
Olympic runners:
- Linford Christie
- Carl Lewis
- Matthew Birir
- Patrick Sang
- Peter Koech

Thanks for any answer, cheers,


Jacques.
From: rns@npg-sd.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM (Rick Schubert)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: 10k-half-marathon
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:43:15 GMT
Organization: NCR Corp., Network Products - San Diego

In <92231.083017RBPQCC@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com> RBPQCC@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com writes:

>Still another way...
>Plot your race times vs race distance on log-log paper.  If all were
>equal effort they will form a (more or less) straight line with a slope
>slightly greater than 1.  Now you can extrapolate/interpolate to any
>distance you want.  It definitely breaks down past the marathon.I am
>fairly linear from 1 mile up to marathon.  It is also good to point
>out your "soft" PRs.

I think the main reason that it "breaks down past the marathon" is that
you are usually extrapolating there rather than interpolating.  Extrapolation
is usually less reliable than interpolation.  I suspect that if you
have data points for 10K, marathon, and 100 miles, that the interpolation
of your 50 mile time would be pretty reasonable.

The same problem should occur to extrapolating to shorter distances.
I suspect that if you had data points of 5K, 10K, half marathon, and
marathon, that extrapolating to 100 meters would "break down" also.

The other reason that extrapolation/interpolation may break down is that
a linear approximation assumes that you are equally-good at all distances.
So, even if you had a data point for 100 miles, but were only trained
for the marathon, interpolating a 50-mile time might not be too accurate
if you walked the last 50 miles of the 100-mile race.

Has anyone seen any models that add an extra parameter that can account
for ones "best" distance?  It would be interesting to try to develop
such a model given enough data.

-- Rick Schubert (rick.schubert@SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM)

Disclaimer: I haven't had a statistics course in about 17 years, so I may
be a bit rusty.
Xref: sparky rec.running:2323 misc.fitness:6833
From: TAC@ysub.ysu.edu (Troy Allen Cross)
Newsgroups: rec.running,misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Weight Loss (Was: Decent Pace for Fat People?)
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:00:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: ysub.168489AD7.TAC
Organization: Youngstown State University

In article <1684899B9.TAC@ysub.ysu.edu>
TAC@ysub.ysu.edu (Troy Allen Cross) writes:
 
>
>In article <1992Aug19.133628.11531@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov>
>puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett) writes:
>
>>
>>If you look at the FAQ for this newsgroup, it has a chart for calories/hour
>
>I've been reading this news group for years and I don't recall seeing
>a FAQ (besides a few writen in satire).
>
>How do you get it?
>
>Shouldn't it be posted monthly?
>
Sorry for this posting.
 
I believe that rec.running has a FAQ and misc.fitness doesn't.
 
Troy
From: dguerrer@lyra.cel.scg.hac.com (Daniel Guerrero)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: interval training
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:07:46 GMT
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Colorado Engineering Labs

In article <168qr0INNq3u@uk-news.UK.Sun.COM> kathy@fleance.UK.Sun.COM writes:
>Hello 
>
>
>During that time I've got my 5k time down to < 22 minutes, and I'm now starting to work on the distance side
>of things, following a schedule in Running, a UK magazine.  The thing that confuses me is the intervals.  How
>fast should I be doing, for example, my 5 x 800m runs, 3 x 1000m runs.  And more importanly, what am I
>trying to achieve ??  It's very hard to motivate myself and keep pushing when it gets tough when I don't
>understand the reasoning behind the work.
>
>Thanks 
>
>Kathy


Interval training can be strenous.  I have always been told that one
of the reasons behing doing interval training is to "teach your 
muscles to run fast".  It is a process of breaking down your muscles
so that when they "rebuild", they will be "stronger" than before...that
is the muscles can take more of a load without getting tired.  I think
it's the same principle behind weightlifting, where you're not
supposed to work on the same muscles of your body on consecutive days
or better yet, you are told to work out on alternate days to give
your muscles time to rebuild.

I have always done interval training on alternate days.  During the off
days, I usually run at a very easy pace.   

As to the times you should run your intervals, it depends on what you're
trying to achieve.  If you want to build muscle endurance, then you
should be able to run your intervals such that you can do the last run
at approximately the same time that you did your first interval run.

This will teach you to hold back in the beginning when you are fresh
and to push at the last run when your muscles are tired.  By 
experimenting, you should be able to find your "ideal" running splits.

At the end of the workout, you should feel "pleasantly tired" but
not to the point of "near death" exhaustion.  Just keep experimenting.
That's what makes this sport so fun and personal!!!

If you want to run faster, there is a rule of thumb were you run
your intervals at 90% of your race pace. This type of training
can be grueling...if you do it, take it easy on the following days.

In any case...bravo on losing all that weight!!!!!

--
============================================================================
Dan Guerrero : dguerrer@rigel.hac.com     |  All science is either physics
Hughes Aircraft Colorado Engineering      |  or stamp collecting.
   Laboratory				  |     - Ernest Rutherford
From: mks@gvgspd.gvg.tek.com (Mark Sanders)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Another FAQ req'
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:08:42 GMT
Followup-To: rec.running
Organization: Grass Valley Group

In article <john.714074219@spssig.spss.com>, john@spss.com (John
Przyborowski) wrote:
> 
> Could someone please email me a copy of the rec.running FAQ?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> john@spss.com

I would like a copy also.

Thanks to the keeper of the FAQs.

Mark Sanders  mks@gvgpsd.gvg.tek.com
Newsgroups: rec.running