HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Bob.Batson@mtask.omahug.org (Bob Batson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Sawdust from CCA_Treated Wood as a Soil Amendfment?
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:36:30 CST
Reply-To: bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org
Organization: Multitasking Systems, Kansas City
Followup-To: rec.gardens

            Sawdust from CCA-Treated Wood as a Soil Amendment?

  Researchers in New Zealand are suggesting that sawdust from
preservative-treated wood (CCA: copper/chromium/arsenic) might be suitable
as a component of plant growing mixes. They argue that the copper,
chromium, and arsenic salts in CCA wood are tightly fixed to the wood and
show negligible leaching. (CCA wood is accepted in Norway for water
pipes.) They also note that, since CCA sawdust degrades extremely slowly,
it would make a durable mulch.
  Experiments conducted by the researchers show that much of the copper
in CCA wood sawdust, but little or none of the chromium or arsenic (which,
presumably, are of much greater importance than copper as potential
health problems) is extractable by conventional soil test techniques at pH
5 or 7. Also, CCA wood sawdust had no effect on growth of beet, white
clover, or lettuce; untreated sawdust reduced growth, presumably because
it tied up nutrients as it decomposed. However (ah ha!), plant roots
concentrate copper, chromium, and arsenic from CCA wood sawdust "to high
levels." Aboveground parts of plants grown with CCA wood sawdust
accumulate "very much lower" concentrations of copper, chromium, and
arsenic. While stressing the need for more experiments with edible plants,
the researchers sound reasonably enthusiastic about the prospect of using
CCA wood in horticulture on a large scale.
  We suspect that it is only a matter of time until someone attempts to
market non-biodegradable (CCA treated) sawdust to gardeners---unless the
Environmental Protection Agency says no. Maybe it isn't too early EPA
officials how we feel about the prospect of being sold chromium and
arsenic in soil amendments!
  Reference: T.W. Speir (DSIR Land Resources, Lower Hutt, NEW ZEALAND),
J.A. August, and C.W. Feltham, "Assessment of the Feasibility of Using CCA
(Copper, Chromium, and Arsenic)-Treated and Boric Acid-Treated Sawdust as
Soil Amendments," PLANT AND SOIL 142(2), May 1992, 235-248. (Kluwer
Academic Publishers, P.O. Box 17, 3300 AA Dordrecht, THE NETHERLANDS.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reprinted with permission from the August 1992 _HortIdeas_. Copyright 1992
by Greg and Pat Williams. HortIdeas is $15 (2nd class mail within the USA)
for one year (12 issues). For more information or a subscription, write:
HortIdeas, 460 Black Lick Road, Gravel Switch, KY 40328, USA. 


*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Bob Batson
bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: rogerv@sco.COM (Roger Vortman)
Subject: Re: Wildflowers to Naturalism
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Distribution: rec.gardens
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 19:33:31 GMT


>I would like to move that Vince Summers be banned from rec.gardens. Is there
>a way to implement this?

>A discussion of beauty and growth is not a place where I would ever wish to
>come across his dispicable hatefulness ever again.

>I am a heterosexual woman, should that make any difference.

I think that rec.gardens will survive Vince Summers.  There are several
issues raised whenever there is a drive to ban a particular individual.
One is that I may want to read his posts and if he is banned, I am denied
the freedom to do so.  Anyone who doesn't want to read his (or mine, or
anyone else's posts) can either ignore his posts, or put him in their kill
file.  Another point is that one individual cannot be "banned" as far as
I know without the cooperation of already overworked site administrators'
to throw out the peron's articles.  This seems pretty silly in light of
the fact that no net reading software that I know of forces anyone to read
anything.  And we are all adults here, right?

Can't rec.gardens be an open forum for discussion, and contributions
accepted or ignored by readers?  What if the proposed net.police
(the hypothetical enforcement arm of the group that does bans) decided
that YOUR postings didn't have enough useful content, or that you were
"too hateful" or whatever?  Personally, I find requests to "ban" a
particular individual much more objectionable than I found Vince's original
posting requesting a net group for naturalism...

So just read selectively, and enjoy.

-Roger
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: freezing pesto
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:05:55 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Sep8.184631.6576@iscsvax.uni.edu>, klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
> so I toss some cheese in the refrigerator.  It will then crumble into
                               ^^^^^^^ freezer.  AACK! Must be brain mites.
> approximately the original curds.  
Kay
From: falcao@felix.metaphor.com (Ronnie Falcao)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Natural snail controls
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:01:26 GMT
Distribution: rec.gardens
Organization: Metaphor Computer Systems, Mountain View, CA

In article <1992Sep11.231518.6133@rigel.econ.uga.edu> hughes@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes) writes:
>   Obnaturalism:  I found a DeKay's snake, or little brown snake,
>   _Storeria dekayi_ (at least it was years ago, maybe it's changed?)
>   while digging out for a pond.  One of my favorites, I used to
>   keep them as a kid.  Eats SNAILS and SLUGS!
>
>   Wayne

Eats SNAILS and SLUGS!?!  Really!?!  Gophers, too?  :-)

What are other natural snail and slug controls?  I've heard
of ducks or geese, and copper, but the snake's new for me.

I live on the southern end of the San Francisco peninsula.
Could I keep a DeKay's snake?  Given that someone else
mentioned that they eat earthworms, do they have a net
benefit or detriment in the garden?  Would the snake and
my cats bother each other?

Thanks,
Ronnie

falcao@metaphor.com

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: rogerv@sco.COM (Roger Vortman)
Subject: Re: protection from frost
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:05:52 GMT


>I've got a frost-tender plant that was not meant to be in my zone, 
>thus the plant might die this winter.  Can I save the plant? What are 
>some of the methods to protect plants from the frost?  Thanks.


I don't know exactly where you are, but it helps to spray with an
antitranspirant, the popular one here is called "Cloud Cover" (I
think).

The other thing that I have heard is to not let plants get
dry if you are expecting frost.  I have even heard that if you
go out on a night that you are expecting frost and spray the leaves
of a plant with water, this helps...my guess is that it would tend to
prevent the temperature of the plant going below 32 degrees (freezing).

-Roger
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: jeert@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Jane Eert)
Subject: Re: freezing pesto
Organization: Royal Roads Military College, Victoria, B.C.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:37:13 GMT


In article <1992Sep8.152056.14452@cis.ohio-state.edu>, amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) writes:
|> yes, we've been freezing pesto (without the cheese) for years.
|> ...

|>... let the pesto thaw to room temperature, and add the cheese,
|> and you're ready to go.
|> 
> 
Sorry if this belongs in rec.cooking, but can anyone tell me
why it is necessary to leave the cheese out?  I've frozen
pesto complete for a couple of years now and it seems to come out
pretty well.

   -Jane
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Raising PH
Date: 10 Sep 92 09:27:24 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <MFB.92Sep9145726@metropolis.super.org>, mfb@metropolis.super.org (Michael F. Bridgland) writes:
> The chemical of choice for this purpose is caustic soda (sodium
> hydroxide). It's easy to produce, and cheap. It's also potentially
> lethal. The wells in our neighborhood all produce water with a pH of
> just over 4.0. This isn't just bad for plants: it eats copper pipes.

If you're dealing with very acid, mineral-laden water, and you want to
raise the pH, KOH (potassium hydroxide) may be a better choice than
NaOH (sodium hydroxide).  Many plants can't deal with high concentrations
of the sodium ion, and will become "salt-burned".  If your water isn't
strongly buffered with lots of minerals to that acid pH, a neutral
buffer like Tris or one of the phosphate buffers might be a better choice.

Kay
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: rlwilliams@gallua.gallaudet.edu
Subject: Re: Basil & Pesto
Organization: Gallaudet University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 02:39:48 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.181606.18769@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>, dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller) writes:
>>
>>One final question, is there anybody that reads this news group that
>>doesn't grow basil and make pesto?
>>
>>Jim
> 
> I have never made pesto.  Used to grow basil, but the surrounding trees 
> (not on my land) have grown too high and I don't get enough sun for 
> veggies. :'(
> 
> --Jill
> --
> A. Richard & Jill A. Miller            | Miller Microcomputer Services |
> InterNet: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu       | 61 Lake Shore Road            |
> Voice: 508/653-6136, 9am-9pm EasternTZ | Natick, MA 01760-2099, USA    | 
===
For the adventurous, you can try mint pesto. is there anywhere mint doesn't 
grow?

skip
rlwilliams@gallua.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: bwalther@alfred.carleton.ca (Bill Walther)
Subject: Vietnamese lemon grass
Summary: need advice
Keywords: lemon grass
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 12:35:22 GMT

I have a clump of lemon grass which has done well in a 12" pot outside
this summer, but is now turning pale and yellow.  I wonder if it needs
a larger pot, fertilizer, or if it's just getting too chilly for it,
what with fall coming on.  Should I repot it now and bring it in for
the winter?  We live near Ottawa, Ontario.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Date: Tue,  8 Sep 1992 10:10:13 -0400 
From: Linda_Walmer@transarc.com
Subject: freezing tomatoes?




I have an abundance of tomatoes in my garden.  I am planning on making
marinara sauce with some of them, and freezing the marinara.  Since this takes
time, and I currently seem to be too busy, I would like to simply freeze the
tomatoes to use later.  I was told that I could just submerge the tomotoes in
boiling water (boil water first), until the skin cracks, and then freeze them.
Is this possible?  How long will they last?  Do I have to skin them, I would
prefer not to.  Also, do I just put them in freezer bags warm, or cool them
with cold water first?

Thanks for the help!

Linda (walmer@transarc.com)


Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Re: Tabasco Recipe Wanted
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 14 Sep 92 12:34:12 CDT

 nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen) writes:
|
|I'll be glad to post the hot-sauce recipe as soon as I can find my "*&^%%# issue of OG! I've been 
|looking for it over the past few days, to make copies for interested friends, but it's hiding. 
|I will look for it over the weekend and post the recipe next week. Even if I can't find it, I think 
|I can reproduce the basic idea.
|

One thing I noticed about the article in OG is that TRUE tabasco sauce is
a fermented (or brine cured) product.  I just posted an article on 
rec.food.historic about how I am currently brine curring some peppers.
I intend to follow this up with something like the OG recipe, which 
in turn I will allow to age or continue to ferment.  I wish I had some
nice wooden casks to do this in.  ;^)

---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       Old Sourdoughs never die.  They just ferment away.
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Tree Peonies From Seed - Questions.
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:56:53 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Sep10.203718.10924@u.washington.edu>, bbeer@milton.u.washington.edu (Bob Beer) writes:
> I recently acquired some seeds of a tree peony and would like to try and
> grow them.  Any peony experts out there?  (Kay?? :)

Nope, I just like 'em.  And books at hand are not terribly helpful.
I've grown ordinary peonies from seed that I harvested, mixed with 
damp sphagnum and sand, and shoved into the vegetable drawer of the 
refrigerator for a few months (until I accidentally excavated these
treasures, to be precise).  I put them in a houseplant soil, watered,
stuck them in the windowsill and they took off.  Bloomed about
4 years after I set them outside.

Tree peonies are not reliably hardy in northern Iowa, so I really
haven't much experience with them (other than admiring the yellow
tree peonies at Missouri Botanical Garden!)  They like slightly
acid (5.5 to 6.5 soil), but they survive our limy soils here (pH ca. 8).
Some of the books indicate you may get first flowers in 3 years.

Kay Klier   Biology Dept  UNI
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: richter@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (C. Richter)
Subject: SURVEY: Expertise of retail horticultural industry
Organization: UTCS Public Access
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 03:26:13 GMT

According to Nuala Beck of Nuala Beck and Associates, U.S. nurseries and 
garden stores experienced the largest percentage decrease in what is 
called the "knowledge ratio" from 1983 to 1991.  In an article published 
in the Globe and Mail (Toronto, Sept. 15, 1992), the knowledge ratio 
dropped from 11.1 to 5.8 (48.1%) over the period.  Other industries 
experiencing large drops were employment agencies (39.5 to 32.1, -18.7%), 
libraries (44.5 to 37.7, -15.3%), and trust companies (38.2 to 34.2, 
-10.5%).   
 
The knowledge ratio is defined as the proportion of workers who are
professionals, including engineering, technical and scientific staff, 
and selected senior managers.  
 
I would be interested to know what the experiences of netters are in 
dealing with the retail horticultural industry.  Most of you are 
members of this "knowledge elite" in your own fields, so you know the 
importance of good information.  Have you been given wrong, incomplete 
or no information at all relating to products you bought?  Do you 
feel that the companies you buy from are competent and willing to 
answer your questions?  Are mailorder companies better or worse than   
local nurseries?  Do you make your buying decisions at least 
partly based on the confidence that if you have questions you can 
get answers from that firm?  Have the companies you dealt with 
referred questions about a product they sell to someone else?  If so, 
have they referred you to another company, botanical garden, library 
or horticultural extension service?  Do you feel that the "knowledge" 
of retail operations has dropped, stayed the same, or risen over the 
past ten years?
 
Please email your responses.  I will post a summary.  
 
 
[Wondering if we too should throw our brains into the compost to get 
our 20% KR down to industry levels.]
 
 
 

-- 
Conrad Richter                     richter@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca
Richters Herbs                     71550.3411@compuserve.com
Goodwood, ON L0C 1AO Canada        Tel 416-640-6677 / Fax 416-640-6641
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Subject: Re: Raccoons in the Corn!
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Summary: electric fences again?
Organization: stanford, outil, lsa, osu,...
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 21:23:19 GMT

for fifteen years my next-door neighbor fought the good battle
with raccoons, but they always got the corn the very night it was
ripe.  he did clanging metal pans, all-night radio, bright lights,
putatively offensive scents, plastic net wrapped around the ears,
you name it.

a good electric fence is said to work against raccoons as well as
deer.  i suspect nothing else will.

the other possibility, of course, is to grow a whole field of the
stuff and lose some around the edges.

arnold (who, having this example, never even tried growing corn)
From: Lawrence.London@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Lawrence London)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: More (hot) pepper questions
Date: 12 Sep 92 03:30:49 GMT
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

In article <PALMERP.92Sep11160210@phoebus.math.orst.edu> Paul Palmer <palmerp@math.orst.edu> writes:
>In article <6889@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> thomase@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Stan England) writes:
>
>   In a previous post to this topic, Judy Karpen asked if there would
>   be any interest in a gardening newsgroup. I tried to respond directly
>   to Judy but the mail bounced back. I would like to see such a group,
>   perhaps rec.gardening and if there was enough interest then maybe 
>   the subgroup that Judy suggest could be rec.gardening.organic.
>
>There is already a group called rec.gardens.

There will soon be alt.sustainable.agriculture which will accomodate 
organic gardeners nicely. The people in alt.co-evolution are encouraging
discussion of organic gardening and farming also. The growing number
of organic small farmers and market gardeners need a place to share
information. There are also publications that cover sustainable
agriculture topics with staffmembers who will utilize the 
conference.
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: cusanell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Dominic Cusanelli)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: freezing pesto
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:11:06 GMT
Reply-To: cusanell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Dominic Cusanelli)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

FREEZING PESTO:

Don't go through the bother of freezing without the cheese.  I
freeze completed pesto in Tupperware (or similar) plastic
containers.  It stays fine for months.  I generally just
about finish last years pesto when I begin making this year's.
From: jhb@calmasd.prime.com (Jim Bishop)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: cheese in frozen pesto?
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:32:21 GMT
Organization: -

In article <18op0gINN3f4@lindy.Stanford.EDU>, zbear@lindy.Stanford.EDU (Stewart Kramer) writes:
> In article <1992Sep10.165931.6654@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>>> In article <1992Sep9.204512.772@calmasd.prime.com>, jhb@calmasd.prime.com (Jim Bishop) writes:
>>> |> One final question, is there anybody that reads this news group that
>>> |> doesn't grow basil and make pesto?
>>
>>I grow basil, hate pesto, and give mine away (assuming the whitefly
>>doesn't carry it off ahead of harvest).  I'd much sooner have a nice
>>alfredo sauce without that stinky basil!  (And I grew up in an
>>Italian neighborhood!)          --Kay
> 
> Oh, good! Then I can admit that I hate basil, hate olive oil, and dislike most
> kinds of cheese, (so I naturally detest pesto).  On the other hand, I have 
> grown "Cinnamon Basil" (and my mother grew up in a Jewish/Italian neighborhood).
> 

Well, you've obviously never had *my* pesto then.  I go very lightly
on the olive oil, heavy on the garlic, and only use pine nuts (which
cost a fortune again this year).

Also not all basils are the same.  I have one that has fuzzy leaves
and fruity fragrance.  It also must contains something that is
addictive.  I eat it on sandwiches, pizza, with tomatoes, with
fruit...with almost anything.  Or maybe you have to be a first
generation basil/pesto eater to appreciate it.

You have white flies in Iowa?  I didn't think they could survive the
winters there.  I don't have much of a white fly problem with basil,
but that's probably because I eat it as fast as it grows.  (Also, I
released the escarpia (SP?) wasps for several years.)  I used to have
horrible white fly problems before I went organic.  They still can get
out of control on the fucshias which are somewhat isolated from most
of the garden.

Jim
From: drmax@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Marianna Max)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Natural snail controls
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:52:36 GMT
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.

In article <BuLCxD.2Ev@nntp-sc.Intel.COM> pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey) writes:
>In article <1992Sep14.220813.17062@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> 
>jern@visual1.jhuapl.edu (Bob Jernigan) writes:
>>Does anyone know how to prepare them?  I'd like to know because I have a 
>>slug of them.
>
>If you want the official word, UC Berkeley has a note on how to escargot for
>a few bucks or so. The best escars are in Calif, of course, that's the Petit
>Gris, but the PacNW banana slug is choice also as well as the WA/BC giant
brown slug. 

People really eat the banana slug? I grew up in the PNW and I've eaten some
pretty strange things but banana slugs are really big and and ugly and Oh
my gosh people really eat them. I saw an 8" banana slug eat a choclate chip
once, maybe you could make them tast good that way.

Max

PS I've heard that burying saucers of beer in your garden will kill slugs.
The slugs come to drink the beer and drown.
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: lazy composting
Date: 15 Sep 92 23:34:21 -0500
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) writes:
> 
> we used to get grass clippings from the one neighbor who didn't nuke
> his lawn with chemicals and didn't let the clippings just fall onto
> the lawn.  now fewer of our neighbors subscribe to the lawn-poisoning
> services, but they have all learned from us to let the clippings lie
> there and fertilize the grass.  when we still got them, layers of
> grass clippings did wonders for the compost heap.

Ah, this brings back memories.  My first compost heap was ca. 1968,
at the age of about 13.  I was tired of being slave labor (my view)
in a garden of clay, and I heard that compost improved that awful
clay.  Most of the neighbors bagged their clippings and set them
out for the trash.  I got out my little red wagon and went up and
down the street collecting grass clippings.  You could almost
hear the comments behind the curtains: "Oh, it's that Klier girl
again.  Do you think she's *quite right* in the head?"

As to what compost should look like, mine has always looked like
good dark potting soil, not clay!  And my plants like it, so who
am I to argue with them?

>   with a substantial wetting-down of urine (which we started
> saving for this purpose during a severe drought in 1988, when we were
> trying to use as little water as possible for *anything*, and then just
> got into the habit).  no, it never smells, nor do flies breed in it.

A Conservation Officer of my acquaintance claims urine is a wonderful
herbicide.  Just have to apply it two or three times.  Someday I'm
going to mention that this is not terribly convenient for 51% of us...

Kay


Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Date: Tue,  8 Sep 1992 10:15:10 -0400 
From: Linda_Walmer@transarc.com
Subject: freezing book




I am looking for a book on freezing vegatables.  I would like information
on which veggies freeze well, and how to prepare them for freezing.  I also
am interested in how long they will keep.

Thanks
Linda Walmer (walmer@transarc.com)
From: ns@bohr.physics.purdue.edu (Nancy M. Schnepp)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: re: LUCILLE BALL rose---Thanks DANA!
Date: 9 Sep 92 18:43:32 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University Physics Department

Dana:  Tried to e-mail you but it kept bouncing back.
Just wanted to thank you for the info!  Now I just
have to get my hands on a Jackson and Perkins catalogue!

-Nancy S.