HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: New machines from Gateway (more flame bait....)
Keywords: Aighhh
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 19:54:51 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.181350.12257@microsoft.com> iank@microsoft.com (Ian Kennedy) writes:
>Last night one of my roomate showed me an article about a new machine
>from Gateway:
>
>66Mhz 486 DX2
>VESA localbus slot
>ATI Graphics Ultra pro in the localbus slot
>300MB Maxtor HD
>2 HD floppys
>4MB ram
>15" Crystal Scan monitor
>Keyboard...etc..
>
>for $2850.00
>
>This is the type of machine the new A4000 will compete with. I think
>the A4000, from what I've read on the net holds up pretty well. It has a 
>slower CPU and lower resolutions but I feel the OS makes up for this.
>Add some EISA slots to the Gateway and it would be even more comprable, but
>alas it is ISA.

The 486 would also need a SoundBlaster Pro (or whatever) and the 
A4000 would need a bigger HD and a monitor.  Of course, there is
still a remote possibility that the A4000 will have a DSP, but
most folks don't seem to expect that to happen.

One thing that many people seem to forget when comparing the AA 
chipset to the LocalBus on the PC is that the Amiga has true graphics
coprocessors that are well integrated into the system.  Programs that
run on a kludge like Windows or an OS like OS/2 or UNIX may be able
to take advantage of a graphics coprocessor on the LocalBus, but what
about all of the older programs and the games that don't?  

I've said it before (as have others) and I'll say it again, C=
should put the AA chipset on an ISA card along with some sort of glue
logic and sell it with drivers for DOS, Windows, OS/2, etc.  It 
would make for a hell of a "MultiMedia", especially compared to the
hacks like the "MPC" which are just stupid SoundBlaster, SVGA, and
CDROM combinations.  Of course this idea also requires that there be 
some sort of marketing and we all know how unlikely that is.  :-)

>/* IanK@Microsoft.com		*/
>/* I want my 32bit chip set	*/

Skip Sauls
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu



Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: PC (OS/2) / Amiga debate -- hopefully a rational debate <- (ha!)
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:54:40 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

copes@cs.curtin.edu.au (Simon Cope) writes:
>
>>Yes.  A typical 1MB VGA can store 6 screens of 640x480x4 graphics.  Switching
>>is instantaneous, via a "display start address" register.
>
>Gee hey 6 whole screens.  Must get me one of them.   NOT!
>

Isn't it true that on the Amiga, the number of graphics screens available
depends on the amount of Chip RAM installed?  If so, how many 640x480x4
screens can a typical A500 store?  A3000?

>
>copes@cs.curtin.edu.au
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 - Early Impressions
From: fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu
Date: 15 Sep 92 06:38:18 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <92258.052225DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu>, <DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
> In article <1992Sep14.064710.19465@news.iastate.edu>, barrett@iastate.edu (Marc
> N Barrett) says:
> 
> 
> Well, none of this matters because Commodore doesn't really have a
> Unix. The Unix team is gone, and the Unix only works with a 68030.
> Not so simple after all.

	Then why did Commodore sign the authorized reseller deal with
	Dec?  Was it for Dec to sell Amiga Multimedia or for Dec to sell
	low end Amiga Unix boxes, or for Commodore to eventually use the
	Alpha chip.  Anybody care to speculate?  (Just think of the 
	really nasty MB type rumors we could start :-) :-))
> 
Fred Heitkamp, ** Not an organization.  My opinions only **
From: kkrebs@amilink.UUCP (Ken Krebs)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A3400/A4000 specs...
Distribution: world
Reply-To: amilink!kkrebs@citrus.sac.ca.us (Ken Krebs)
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 5 Sep 92 14:02:01 PST
Organization: Sacramento Amiga Computer Club - Sacramento, CA

In article <1992Sep5.154623.24426@ra.msstate.edu> ada@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Sunga Rettaf) writes:
> Here is a little something that may be interesting to .advocacy readers.
> I have no idea who wrote the article, but it seems to be someone from
> a hardware company.  The article has been circulated via email to several
> persons, yet it has somehow managed to escape being posted on the net.
> 
> Is the information real or fake?  If real, is this the type of machine
> that people are expecting?
> 
> Here it is:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> A3400 or A4000.  The sticker on the back of the machine said A4000, the

[...Long message deleted...]

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Sunga Rettaf

Nice try Slu/Skip/Sunga Rettaf/Fatter Agnus

:-)  Sounds incredibly accurate, though!


-- 
*********** NewOrderDepecheModeUltravoxViolentFemmesKillingJoke |Amiga 3000|
*Ken Krebs* SkinnyPuppyLaTourBauhausBookOfLoveModernEnglishB52s |25Mhz/6Meg|
*********** FishBoneBigCountryJoyDivisonSiouxsie&TheBansheesXTC |Multitask!|
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
       UUCP: uunet!csusac.ecs.csus.edu!citrus!amilink!kkrebs
   InterNet: amilink!kkrebs@citrus.sac.ca.us or: kkrebs@citrus.sac.ca.us
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com>
Subject: aga chipset for amiga
Reply-To: "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: comp
Date: 12 Sep 92 03:51:01 EST


 OK Commodore has announced the Amiga 4000 system at the World Of
Commodore Show in Passadina.

 The A4000 consists of

 25mhz 040 CPU
 2 Meg 32 bit CHIP
 6 MEG 32 bit FAST expandable

 24 bit pallete
 256,000 colours in all modes
 new resolutions including  800x600, 640x480, 1280x480, 1280x800
 Built in Flicker Fixer

 32 bit Zorro III slots

 Workbench 3.0

 Same sound chip although it is reported that Commodore did not complete
their soundchip in time. They should be releasing one later on. Probably
early next year.

 The suggested retail price is $3699. This is actually a pretty good
price. it's cheaper then the Amiga 3000s SRP when it was first released.
Also comes with a lot more. The only thing missing in the A3000 was
better graphics capabilities. Even BYTE magazine said the A3000 would
have been their choice computer had it come with at least 8 bit
graphics. 256,000 colours at one time in all resolutions is excellent!
The price is good with a street price of around $3000!

 This also means the Amiga 3000 will probably jump below $2000!

 Now the big question!

 I know that there are two more days worth of announcements at the World
Of Commodore show in Passadina. Has anyone who has been to the show
asked about when AGA Chipset will be available for the Amiga 3000 and if
it will work in on an Amiga 500/2000!
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario, Canadas
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: James_Mcormond@jammys.ocunix.on.ca (James Mcormond)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Problems with the A4000
Distribution: world
Date: 14 Sep 92 23:09:37 EST

In a message dated Mon 14 Sep 92 21:29, Ahansfor@wpi.wpi.edu (andrew L. Han
wrote:

 ALH> will offer a configuration with the SCSI card and SCSI drive and the
 ALH> IDE shut off. (I take it that the IDE interface can be bypassed.)

Why bother?  Lets say the IDE controller only runs one HD (possibly two),
then you stick your SCSI controller on there to play with CD-Roms, tape
backups, more HD's etc..  Who's to say you can't keep the IDE drive
running?  I mean, that saves you one SCSI port that you don't have to put a
HD on (save it for more usefull things like a DAT backup :-)

Its not like IDE is that much of a transfer rate difference.  Equivalent
drives, are basically the same price, and same speed, so why not fill up
the IDE port with a single HD.

Jammer

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

James A McOrmond - Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA! - V32bis HighSpeed Modem!
Fidonet#1:163/109.3
UUCP: Jam@Jammys.OCUnix.On.Ca
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: iank@microsoft.com (Ian Kennedy)
Subject: Here's one for ya....
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:27:06 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.

At the WOC, Commodore mentioned plans for new chipsets beyond the
AGA chips. A "low end" and a "high end" both with impressive sound
and graphics. These chips are suposedly destined for a modular
Amiga architecture in which the CPU clock rate and audio/video
sub-systems are no longer interdependant. This is good. It allows
for easier upgrades of graphics and processors.

Now, my question: What happens to A4000 owners when these new chips
hit the market in new cool machines with zippy 24bit graphcis and 
16bit 100Khz sound? Speculations anyone?

My feeling is the A4000 and the "AGA" machines to come are just a stopgap
measure to give the Amiga graphics comprable to the common denominator
in the Mac and PC markets.

When the "highend, 4 chip set" and "low end 2 chip set" machines finally
arrive I believe the A4000 and othere "AGA" owners will be in the same boat
we A3000/A2000/A500/A600 owners are in now.

Thus I believe I will just hold onto my A3000/25. It's a good machine.
If I'm lucky some clever 3rd party hacker will marcket some sort of
kluge to put the new chips in my A3000.
-- 
/* IanK@Microsoft.com				*/
/* Waiting for what comes after the A4000! 	*/
/* In the meantime I think I'll pick up a  	*/
/* '486 box...					*/
From: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: AGA Compatable A3000 - Why Not?  Isn't it possible.
Date: 14 Sep 92 08:45:06 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

slbfn@cc.usu.edu writes:
>However, I am no hardware dude (yet...  give me 4.3 years...) but isn't
>the arcitechture of the A3000 completely 32bit except for the path to the
>ECS?  And if it is, wouldn't it be possible to install the AGA in the
>CPU slot?  Of course, you'd probably have to change some Workbench memory
>locations, I don't know.

In a word.. NO.

There's more to the custom chips than just the 32 bit adresses.  There's all
the connections to the ports (RGB, VGA, Serial, parallel, floppy, etc..) which
go directly to the various ports, if you hooked up a chipset to the cpu slot,
you would have to run wires from the ports to the chipset... very ugly and
probably wouldn't work too well because of resistance, capacitance etc..
problems.. then you have all the various clockings that aren't available on
the cpu slot and other chips that connect up to the custom chips.  All in all,
it would be messy, and no self respecting engineer would touch such a project.

.--------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back |
| ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil        | from the dead, but do  |
| INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org                  | you really think he's  |
|-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?"        |
| Amiga programmer at large, employment options   | Lou Diamond Philips in |
| welcome, inquire within.                        | "The First Power".     |
`--------------------------------------------------------------------------'
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falc
From: fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu
Date: 10 Sep 92 06:22:29 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <34960@cbmvax.commodore.com>, andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes:
> In article <gate.49ymqB1w165w@lakes.trenton.sc.us> mr_scary@lakes.trenton.sc.us (mr_scary) writes:
>>-> From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
>>-> 
>>-> fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu writes:
>>-> > 
>>-> >	I think XMS and EMS fits the discription of kludge that someone
>>-> >	posted.  I believe the definition was from Byte.  Would someone
>>-> >	repost the definition?  I don't want to paraphrase.
>>-> >
	Over the weekend, I was browsing a bookstore and I looked in two
	computer dictionaries, Barrons and Websters.  The definitions
	range from :
	
	1. Something added to a computer that provides additional 
	functionality for which that computer was NOT originally 
	designed for.

	2.  A clummsy, awkward, hastely designed add on to a computer
	that provides additional capability.

	Note that these definitions are from memory.  XMS and EMS fits
	(1) assuming that the designers of MS-DOS never intended it to
	have more than 640K.  (Bill G.  care to comment? :-) ).  The
	BB does not fit either description for the A2000 case, Unless
	you want to be cynical.  Of course it seems that there are
	several definitions of kludge (kluge) at this point so take your
	pick ;-).
	
> 
> What's surprising is that _Jerry Shekhel_ admits this in public.
> Usually the mere presence of the 'Intel Inside' sticker will
> cause him to defend a kludge to the death. :-)

	It certainly seems so, doesn't it.
> 
>>-> | Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
> 
>>Chris Hurley                     // 'Technical Engineer', Student, Game
> 
> 			andy
> -- 
> andy finkel		{uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy
> 
> "OS/2 is the operating system for the next thousand great applications." -
>  one of the things Bill Gates probably wishes he hadn't said.
> 
> 
> Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share.
> I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
Fred Heitkamp,  ** Not an organization.  My opinions only **
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: derek@cgrg.ohio-state.edu (place your name between the quote marks, please)
Subject: Re: A4000 at WOC
Organization: OSU Advanced Computing Center for the Arts and Design
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 05:51:50 GMT

In article <copes.716443431@marsh> copes@cs.curtin.edu.au (Simon Cope) writes:
>u894776@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (James McCoull) writes:
>
>>barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>
>>All one can hope is that CBM had their real engineers working on
>>the group of machines after this one.
>
>They are.  The top end machine they are working on had over 100x the bandwidth.
>Read: FAST CHEAP 24 bit graphics.

I'd buy it today! (I guess I'll have to wait till tomorrow :-)

Too bad I will not buy A4000 until I see SCSI II controller for that.
I wouldn't be able to make any use of all SCSI hardware I have :-(

>copes@cs.curtin.edu.au

Dariusz Bolski
-- 
Dariusz Bolski     Ohio Supercomputer Center, IBM POWER Visualization System
Systems Programmer Ohio State University , Columbus U.S.
                   The Advanced Computing Center For The Arts And Design
e-mail: derek@cgrg.ohio-state.edu  derek@osc.edu
From: ipolyi@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (Harold H. Ipolyi 713-486-6444)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: World of Commodore summary, 9/12, part 2 (LONG)
Keywords: new chipsets, WOC
Date: 15 Sep 1992 20:57:13 GMT
Organization: McDonnell Douglas Space Systems Company

In article <1992Sep13.210801.29217@cco.caltech.edu>, andrey@cco.caltech.edu (Andre T. Yew) writes:
|> ecarroll@maths.tcd.ie (Eddy Carroll) writes:
|> 
|> >cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:
|> >>andrey@cco.caltech.edu (Andre T. Yew) writes:
|> 
|> >[ Lots of amazing stuff which leads me to believe that Eggebrecht had too much
|> >  to drink on Friday Night. I _really_ hope CBM management follow through on
|> >  all this! I'll even forgive them for not including a DSP in the base A4000. ]
|> 
|> 	I guess he was so drunk, he even made an AmigaVision flow
|> for his presentation which had all of what he said in it :).

Is this AmigaVision flow for his presentation available on ftp sites? C=, please!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: Here's one for ya....
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 17:15:27 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.122824.10561@rdg.dec.com> cadwallader@forty2.enet.dec.com () writes:
>
>>Nothing.  We can decide if we want to buy the A5000 (or whatever) if
>>we want to.  Again, by the description of the new high-end chipset,
>>there is no way it will be a plug-in replacement either.   But up until
>>then, I'll have the most powerful Amiga available, and I'll get lots of
>>enjoyment gloating about it for at least a year
>
>Read the WOC Review 2nd posting again, from AGA on new chips WILL apparently
>be `drop in and go'. One of the areas of the posting that REALLY pleased
>me! :-)

   Good luck installing "drop and go" upgrades on a *100% surface mounted* 
motherboard.

>								- JIM CAD*

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amazing Prediction
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:44:42 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA

In article <1992Sep11.055437.10772@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> rjc@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray) writes:
>
>  Sometime, within the next few days, an entity on the net going by the
>name Marc Barrett will post a message ferociously bashing the new
>Amiga models. It doesn't matter how good the specs of these new systems
>are, they _will_ be bashed. And I predict on these [rumored] key points:
>
>1) Price.  They don't compete with the cheapo $1800 486 systems.
>2) Too-Little too-late (tm). Commodore should have had an 040 system out
>   over a year ago and a _revolutionary_ chipset out back in 1987. 
>   _Anything_ Commodore releases is "too late".  Hence, no point releasing
>A   an 040 system.
>3) AA chipset doesn't have a fast enough blitter. AA chipset doesn't
>have "super improved copper" AA chipset doesn't have anything higher 
>than 1024x768x8, and the new modes are interlaced.

   Actually, it doesn't have any non-interlaced Productivity-style modes at
all higher than 640x480.

>4) no built in CD-ROM
>5) IDE instead of SCSI
>6) No DIG, No Mem Protection, Virtual Memory, or Global Resource Tracking
>   in 3.0
>7) no improved sound
>
>  If I were gambling, I'd place my bets on #1, #2, and #3. Marc will bash
>the AA chipset the hardest since is he has been fairly rabid about
>graphics capabilities.
>
>  No flame, I just wanted to get in some jabs before Marc posts his
>usual "As I have been predicting all along since 1981, Commodore has
>done X."

   Well, aside from a few innacuracies intended to make the systems look better
than they are, you've summarized just about the whole situation.  I am going
to be posting a message, but it will be a brief one explaining in detail 
why the use of IDE instead of SCSI will be pushing up the initial list prices
on the systems.  And my reasons will be solid ones.  (Nobody I've chatted 
with in e-mail so far has been able to refute them)

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: cadwallader@forty2.enet.dec.com ()
Subject: Re: Here's one for ya....
Reply-To: cadwallader@forty2.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 12:28:24 GMT


>Nothing.  We can decide if we want to buy the A5000 (or whatever) if
>we want to.  Again, by the description of the new high-end chipset,
>there is no way it will be a plug-in replacement either.   But up until
>then, I'll have the most powerful Amiga available, and I'll get lots of
>enjoyment gloating about it for at least a year

Read the WOC Review 2nd posting again, from AGA on new chips WILL apparently
be `drop in and go'. One of the areas of the posting that REALLY pleased
me! :-)

A lot of the answers to what people are asking are in that post of Egge...ch's
talk. It's all good news too IMO, if you haven't read it, get a copy and do
so, it will cheer you up. [That was to everyone, not a personal suggestion]

								- JIM CAD*
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: borgen@stud.cs.uit.no (Boerge Noest)
Subject: C= (Sweden) does things right!
Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:11:45 GMT


From todays 'DatorMagazinet' (Swedish C= magazine):

A600 is now shipping with 40M HD in Sweden.

C= is cutting their PC Clown prices by 50%.

C= is dropping much of the 'tie-and-suit' apperance, and has decided that
hackers&demogroups are a major group of Amiga users. Therefore they are
sponsoring a democompetition: 1st price an Amiga 3000 100HD/25Mhz 6M ram.
2nd price A600 (with HD?). 3rd price A590.


This seems to be in line with reports of usergroups getting support from
C=.
-- 
|/// borgen@stud.cs.uit.no (Boerge Noest) | Amiga B2000			 \\\|
|//  Box 218, 9001 Tromsoe, Norway	  | Remember to :-) when needed	  \\|
|/   The worlds northermost university	  | Life is worth living.	   \|
	_Tilbyr News/email til hele Nord-Norge: Ta kontakt_
From: jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Icon default tool paths (was Re: A4000 Specs? Who knows.)
Date: 9 Sep 92 12:02:27 GMT
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Atlantic City NJ

gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:

>To be honest, that's a little hellish to do.  Now, I'll agree, there's
>no excuse for screwing up the drag bar.  That's just plain stupid.
>However, getting a font-insensitive interface is NOT trivial.  Nowhere
>near, unfortunately.  Programs SHOULD, if they can't do it, force a
>specific font size.  In particular, they should force Topaz 8.

  Greg, I think you nailed it there, forced fonts.  As much as I thought
I liked the idea of font customization, writing an interface to coexist
with it is more work then the end results are worth.

  Granted, the drag bar should be fairly trivial, but you can even get bit
there due to the unlimited size fonts that the user can throw at it.

  I guess this is a situation where too much flexibility can be almost as
bad as not enough... ;-)

  -jack-
 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: danaf@bray1b.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.)
Subject: Re: A4000 Specs? Who knows.
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 01:54:08 GMT

As a semi-related side note...

(forgive me if anything I suggest has already been implemented but ignored by
software developers...)

The discussion recently on Commodore-supplied file display programs reminded
me of one of my personal pet peeves. It drives me crazy when software houses
write default tools into their project icons that read something like:

				DF0:More

Then, if you have inserted the disk into DF1:, or copied the file to your hard
drive, the file will be unable to display. It's BETTER if they insert the
name of the disk into the mountlist, eg:

			  PROGDISK:More

but not much. So, my question is, does anyone have a better alternative that
we can offer to software developers. My personal favorite is that we just 
assume ALL default tools are actually in the Path, and include **NO** info
other than the name of the Tool. But, if anyone has a better suggestion,
please post it, or simply post comments on the situation in general.

Thanx for listening...

I am...
   -Frank Dana, known (718)-(212)-(516) over as Amiuser/Doc Ami!