HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Subject: Science vs. story in SF (Was: World Creation)
Originator: elf@halcyon.com
Reply-To: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Organization: Pendor, UnLtd.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 11:41:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.055106.23572@reed.edu>
     ehudon@reed.edu (Elizabeth Hudon) writes:

>One final point: One could argue that a story which would be 
>essentially the same story if you replaced the SF setting with an 
>equivalent modern-Earth one is either
>     a) a *timeless* piece of fiction, capable of surpassing its
>        setting in speaking about the general *human condition*
>or,  b) not an especially good story, SF or otherwise

>I agree with b), simply because I think an author using a SF base ought
>to have a purpose behind his choice, otherwise (as Mr. Yoshikami said),
>SF becomes merely *decoration*. SF can accomplish much more than
>nice backdrops.

   Or it might simply be, all considerations of 'art' and 'literature'
aside, that an SF 'backdrop' SELLS.  And when we're talking about
writing for an audience, that is something to consider.

   I write science fiction because there is no other genre I feel
comfortable writing in.  If I have to write about 20th Century Earth, I
don't feel comfortable if my characters don't teleport out in the end.
I grew up on a steady diet of Tom Swift, Doc Savage, and Lucky Starr.
For me, the inside of a starship is an easier thing to describe than my
own bedroom.

   And finally, referring to your (a) above... there may be no other
way to get the timeless story to a given audience.  A number of Star
Trek and Star Trek The Next Generation episodes were nothing BUT
"timeless themes"; Love, War, Death.  But some people will never be
exposed to these kinds of themes through any other medium than science
fiction television and movies.

   There's a wonderful scene in Star Wars, of all places, where we
first see the Millenium Falcon.  Prior to this scene, all we've seen
are huge, goverment owned ships.  Now we see the Falcon; Lucas lets the
camera play over the ship and it fills the screen.  This scene has been
done before; Hemingway did it.  We see a man's private ship.  It is
his; he cares for it with his skill and it takes him wherever he goes.
The Falcon, and Solo, is unlike anything we've seen before in the
movie.  They are free to go anywhere, out of the reach of any
government.  The theme of transportation and freedom, whether it be a
teenager's new car, a sailing ship, or a starship, is universal.  But
for _me_, this was the first place I'd ever seen it presented.

   And, of course, Luke has the perfect punchline:  "What a hunk of
junk!"  _That's_ writing for an SF audience.

>Elizabeth

         Elf !!!
-- 
Elf Sternberg    __   |     I have looked into the abyss, and the abyss
elf@halcyon.com  \/   | has looked into me.  Neither liked what we saw.
elf@polari.online.com |                              - Brother Theodore
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin)
Subject: Re: New Definition of SF et al.
Organization: CS Dept. Snakepit - Do Not Feed.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 22:48:54 GMT

In article <14813@mindlink.bc.ca> Alan_Barclay@mindlink.bc.ca (Alan Barclay) writes:
>Okay, how about this for a definition?
>
>"Speculative Fiction is a group of genres of fiction where one or more of the
>key problems to be faced by one or more of the protagonists only exists because
>one or more elements of the physical universe, metaphysical universe or the
>culture dipicted in the story do not exist today and could not existed in the
>past."

This is serviceable; the only problem I see is that it leaves nontraditional
fiction forms, in which it can be difficult to identify the "protagonists"
and the "key problems," undefined.  Let me bring up this example again:
is Calvino's _Cosmicomics_ SF?

>Hard Science Fiction
>Science Fiction in which the primary problem develops from an element of
>speculation about the physical universe.
>
>Soft Science Fiction
>Science Fiction in which the primary problem develops from an element of
>speculation about culture and social forces.

I still don't like this.

I have much the same definition of Hard SF, but there's plenty of good
soft SF around wherein the primary problem is not speculative at all;
it develops from conflicts which are universal and human.  The speculative
setting is not used to form a speculative debate about social ideas,
but only to facilitate the human conflict which forms the "meat" of
the story.

For example, Geoff Ryman's wonderful novella "Love Sickness," which
concerns a lesbian relationship between a woman and a polar bear.
The speculative setting is not window-dressing; it's used to bring
out human dimensions that would be difficult to evoke in the real
world.  But it's not "soft SF" by your definition, although other
parts of the novel containing "Love Sickness," _The Child Garden_,
are.

I'd prefer to separate Science Fiction into "idea fiction" and its
complement; the former being that which seeks to involve the reader in an
intellectual debate, and the latter concentrating on purely fictional
forms.  This dichotomy corresponds very cleanly to my own taste in the
field, but I think it is, if fuzzy, inclusive and generally applicable.

c
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Editing on Computer or Hardcopy
From: thomas@datamark.co.nz (Thomas Beagle)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1992 22:59:41 GMT
Organization: Datamark International Ltd.

I used to say that I could never edit on a computer screen.

After a while, entering changes on paper and then transferring them to
my essays got to be too much work. I started editing on screen, and
actually found it quite easy.

I now have another problem though...

My EDI manual is nearly finished and I am reading the thing trying to
fix the worst bits. The only problem is, if I do it on screen, I keep
getting distracted by other bits of text.

For example, if I move a chunk of text to another section and then
see an error in that section, it is incredibly tempting to fix it then
and there. Rereading the corrected bit I decide that I should rewrite
it, and do so. This reminds me of another similar piece somewhere else
so I copy the corrected text there. 

Of course by this time I have entirely lost the thread of what I am
doing and I am now engaged in a general search and destroy mission
across 100 pages of text.

My new rules now is to print the thing out and then take it to another
desk away from my computer... :-)

I just posted this to see if anyone else had similar
thoughts/feelings/whatever. Comments?

(Hmmm. Too many commas in the above for me. :-)
-- 
    Thomas Beagle | thomas@datamark.co.nz    or | A beagle a day keeps        
Datamark Intl Ltd | thomas@cavebbs.welly.gen.nz | the doctor at bay.
 Technical Writer | 		      Vote MMP!
Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive
From: Ron Buckmire <buckmr%rpi.edu@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Subject: CALL/FAX Pete Wilson to sign CALIFORNIA GAY RIGHTS BILL into *LAW*!
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Originator: daemon@pencil.cs.missouri.edu
Organization: ?
Resent-From: "Rich Winkel" <MATHRICH@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 20:09:03 GMT


Call, write, or fax Gov. Wilson and urge him to sign AB 2601.  If you are a
Californian, tell him it would make you feel more secure in your job.
After all, we have a right to work, too.  If you are from one of the states
that already has such a law, tell him how it has improved your job security.
Anyone from outside California can threaten an economic boycott of California
products and tourism, claiming it would be "bad for business."

You can reach Governor Pete Wilson at:
State Capital
Sacramento, CA  95814
voice (916) 445-2841
fax (916) 445-4633
Los Angeles office (213) 897-0322

 Chad Jones
 UCLA Department of Physiological Science
 cjones@kines.ucla.edu
 "Ut scis te observare marmotam monacem ipsam?"

---
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C., April 25 1993''
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
"Jane." --Lily Tomlin, when asked "Who's your family in LA?"
Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive
From: Nigel.Allen@lambada.oit.unc.edu
Subject: Virginia School Milk Case
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Originator: rich@pencil.cs.missouri.edu
Organization: Echo Beach
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 04:59:19 GMT

Here is a press release from the Attorney General of Virginia.
 
 Virginia Reaches Settlement With Pet Inc. in Milk Contract Case
 Contact: Deborah Love-Bryant of the Office of the Attorney General,
          804-786-2435

   RICHMOND, Aug. 28 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Attorney General Mary Sue
Terry today announced that her office has reached a settlement with
Pet Inc. for $300,000 for its alleged participation in a conspiracy
to rig milk contracts in 35 school systems in Central and Tidewater
Virginia.
   This brings to over $1.6 million in damages the Attorney General
has collected for those school districts.
   Terry, commenting on the settlement, said: "I am pleased that we
were able to reach this settlement with Pet without having to file a
lawsuit.  Pet has acted responsibly in agreeing to compensate the 35
school systems for the damages they suffered as a result of the
bid-rigging scheme."
   In August 1991, Terry, on behalf of 35 school districts in
Tidewater and Central Virginia, filed a civil suit against:
  * Land-O-Sun Dairies Inc. t/a Pet Dairy
   * Embassy Dairy Inc.
   * Maola Milk & Ice Cream Co. Inc.
   * Maryland and Virginia Milk Producers Cooperative
       Association Inc.
   * The Southland Corp.
   The suit sought damages against those companies for allegedly
conspiring to fix prices for school milk contracts since at least as
early as 1983 and charged that the companies violated federal and
state law by:
   * divvying up school districts among themselves and agreeing among
     themselves who would submit the lowest bid;
   * deciding among themselves what the lowest bid price would be;
     and,
   * submitting noncompetitive bids in districts assigned other
     companies in order to create the illusion of competition.
   Terry's office previously reached settlement with The Southland
Corp., Maryland and Virginia Milk Producers Cooperative Association
Inc., t/a Marva Maid Dairy, and Maola Milk & Ice Cream Co.  The
settlements with those companies totaled $1,369,021 in damages and
$217,500 in attorneys' fees and costs.
   Pet Inc. sold its dairy division in December 1985 to the company
that became Land-O-Sun Dairies Inc.  The commonwealth's claims
against Land-O-Sun for activities after the sale remain pending in
bankruptcy proceedings in Florida.
 -30-


Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive
From: rich@pencil.cs.missouri.edu (Rich Winkel)
Subject: Agee Speaking Tour Oct 16 - Nov 18
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Originator: rich@pencil.cs.missouri.edu
Organization: PACH
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 23:33:19 GMT

/** pn.announcemen: 68.0 **/
** Topic: Philip Agee-X CIA Agent/Speaks Out **
** Written  3:35 pm  Sep  1, 1992 by peacenet in cdp:pn.announcemen **
From: <peacenet>
Subject: Philip Agee-X CIA Agent/Speaks Out

From speakout Mon Aug 31 19:11:32 1992
From: Speak Out! <speakout>

                       S P E A K O U T ! 

                        p r e s e n t s 

              =-=-=-  FALL  SPEAKING TOUR  -=-=-=

                            f o r

                     P H I L I P  A G E E

  The first CIA Secret Operations Officer to go public in protest, 
Agee is also the Agency's most controversial critic.  Author of 
many books, including <Inside the Company: CIA Diary>, he is a 
leading activist of the CIA Off-Campus movement.  Agee speaks on 
campuses and for community groups against the CIA support of 
torture, political assassinations, death squads and the overthrow 
of democratically-elected governments around the world.

Approximate tour dates:  October 16 - November 18

                   For information contact:

                          Speak Out!
                       San Diego Office
                        PO Box 84087
                      San Diego, CA 92138
                        619-223-3219

** End of text from cdp:pn.announcemen **
Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive
From: Nigel Allen <nigel.allen@canrem.com>
Subject: unc health care study
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Originator: rich@pencil.cs.missouri.edu
Organization: ?
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 03:09:04 GMT

Here is a press release from the Clinton/Gore Campaign.
 
 Clinton Campaign Statement on University of North Carolina Health
Care Study
 To: National Desk, Political Writer
 Contact: Avis LaVelle of the Clinton/Gore Campaign, 501-399-3840

   LITTLE ROCK, Ark., Aug. 31 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Statement of George
Stephanopoulos, Clinton/Gore communications director, on a health
care study released by University of North Carolina:

   "This study has one simple conclusion: Bill Clinton's health plan
would control costs and create 2.2 million more jobs than George
Bush's approach.
   "Bill Clinton supports comprehensive health care reform that
controls costs; George Bush wants to protect the insurance companies
and stick the elderly with the bill.  George Bush's hatchet plan for
Medicare benefits and do-nothing cost control scheme would increase
costs for families, but protect profits for insurance and
pharmaceutical companies.  The study released today shows just how
costly the Bush approach is.
   "What would happen under George Bush's assault on Medicare and
Medicaid?  According to the University of North Carolina study, the
Bush Plan would result in:
   -- 2.2 million jobs lost as health care costs continue to spiral
      out of control;
   -- Health costs consuming 12 percent of the income of elderly
      Americans by 1997; and
   -- 60 million uninsured Americans by 1997.
   "We need comprehensive reform, not piecemeal cuts.  The Clinton
Health Care Plan offers an approach that will control costs
throughout the health system and increase access and affordability.
  The Bush scheme will cost jobs; comprehensive reform will create
them, as health costs get under control to the benefit of workers and
businesses alike."
    ------
   NOTE: The study was conducted by Dr. Kenneth E. Thorpe, associate
professor of health policy and administration at the University of
North Carolina-Chapel Hill, School of Public Health.  For copies of
the study contact UNC News Services at 919-962-2091.  Thorpe is
available today for interviews.  Call him at 919-966-7375 (work) or
919-408-0168 (home).
   Thorpe, who has testified before congressional committees about
several national health-care proposals, specializes in national
health insurance, financing health care and other public and private
health care cost issues.
 -30-
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044

Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive
From: rich@pencil.cs.missouri.edu (Rich Winkel)
Subject: People's Fast for Justice & Peace Begins in DC
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Originator: rich@pencil.cs.missouri.edu
Organization: PACH
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 02:09:52 GMT

/** native.1492: 181.0 **/
** Topic: PEOPLE'S FAST BEGINS IN DC! **
** Written  7:31 pm  Sep  1, 1992 by ckc in cdp:native.1492 **

THE PEOPLE'S FAST FOR JUSTICE AND PEACE IN THE AMERICAS has commenced 
at the U.S. Capitol in Washington, DC, on the East Side steps.  For
42 days, from September 1, 1992 through October 12, 1992, several
women and men will partake of water only as a means of repentance
and reflection on 500 years of the Columbus "enterprise", and the
resulting subjugation of entire cultures native to what is now called 
the "Americas".   

Among the fasters is S. Brian Willson, a Vietnam veteran and teacher
who has fasted on the Capitol steps several times before.  He begins the
fast on September 1, the anniversary of his blocking a weapons train in
California in 1987, an assault that claimed both his legs and almost
his life.  Also fasting on water only is ex-FBI agent Jack Ryan, who 
was fired from his job when he refused to investigate Brian during a
1986 fast at the Capitol, and Dave Dellinger, a stalwart of the peace
movement during the 60's and beyond.  They are joined by many others,
some of whom will fast the entire time on water only, some of whom
will "relay fast" for a period of time, and many others who come to
lend support and to share reflections.

People in the Washington, DC area and those who intend to visit in
the coming weeks are invited to participate in DC area events, which
follow.  People across the U.S. are encouraged to join in the fast
in their own locales, and to spread the word about the 42 day fast.
For more information, contact the People's Fast for Justice and Peace
in the Americas, at (202) 546-7937.

Please note that the fasters will be on the Capitol steps from 4:30 PM
to 7:00 PM during the first week, and from 2:00 - 7:00 PM during the
following weeks.

UPCOMING EVENTS - WEEK ONE  (East Steps/Capitol unless otherwise noted)

Wednesday, September 2, 5:00 PM - Philip Wheaton on "A Unipolar World, 
the New World Order, Panama and the Persian Gulf: One Citizen's Response."

Thursday, September 3, 7:30 PM (at St. Aloysius Church) - Dave Dellinger
on "The New World Order: The Urgent Need for Dr. King's Radical Revolution
of Values."

Friday, September 4, 5:00 PM - The fasters will discuss their experiences
with the New World Order.

Future events will feature Adolfo Perez Esquivel, Eleanor Smeal, Fr.
Miguel D'Escoto, Dolores Huerta, Nelsa Curbelo, and others.  See this
conference or native.1492 for news of the fast and events listings.

** End of text from cdp:native.1492 **

Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive
From: harelb@math.cornell.edu (misc.activism.progressive co-moderator)
Subject: 2 in 3 Canadians oppose NAFTA
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Originator: daemon@pencil.cs.missouri.edu
Organization: misc.activism.progressive on UseNet ; ACTIV-L@UMCVMB
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:38:23 GMT

[Via misc.activism.progressive from PeaceNet's eai.news]
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
kmander eai.news         9:37 am  Jul 20, 1992 
The Enterprise for the Americas (EAI) Bulletin 
Monday, July 20, 1992 
_________________________________________________________ 
Regional News Summary 
__________________________________________________________________ 
NAFTA LOSING SUPPORT AMONG CANADIANS 

Fearing Canada will be unable to compete with Mexico's lower wages,  
environmental and safety standards, fewer Canadians are supporting the  
North American Free Trade Agreement.  A recent Gallup poll showed that  
only 28 percent of Canadians are in favor of NAFTA, down from 35 percent  
last year.  An Angus Reid Group poll recently found 29 percent of  
Canadians in support of the deal.  The poll concludes that "support for  
NAFTA has crashed since September 1991."  Canadians already are  
unhappy with the U.S.-Canada Free Trade Agreement, which many blame  
for the 11.6 unemployment rate, an eight-year high.  Critics of the accord  
say NAFTA will increase unemployment in Canada. 

A Canadian official said recently that Prime Minister Brian Mulroney still  
solidly supports NAFTA, despite the opinion polls and an appeal from  
Ontario Premier Bob Rae to suspend the negotiations. 

Source: Robert Kozak, ""Canadians Have Second Thoughts About North  
American Free Trade," REUTER, July 15, 1992; "Support for NAFTA Deal  
'Crashed,' Poll Says," OTTAWA CITIZEN; Bernard Simon, "Drop NAFTA,  
Mulroney Told," FINANCIAL TIMES, July 16, 1992, p. 4. 
_________________________________________________________ 
Produced by: 
Kai Mander     
The Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy (IATP) 
1313 Fifth Street SE, Suite #303 
Minneapolis, MN 55414-1546 USA 

Telephone:(612)379-5980 Fax:(612)379-5982 
E-Mail:kmander@igc.org 
_________________________________________________________ 

Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive
From: World Perspectives <worldpnews@igc.apc.org>
Subject: Costa Rica news
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Originator: daemon@pencil.cs.missouri.edu
Organization: ?
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 23:34:28 GMT

/* Written  4:35 pm  Aug 28, 1992 by worldpnews in cdp:worldp.samples */
/* ---------- "Costa Rica news" ---------- */
From WORLD PERSPECTIVES. Box 3074, Madison, WI 53704


COSTA RICA
 The Costa Rican court has decided to hold the skippers of four US
fishing boast under preventive prison and bring them to trial for
violating the country's territorial waters last week. Each of them
will also have to pay $22,000 in fines.

The US embassy in San Jose, the capital, has protested the
decision, but the Costa Rican Minister of the Presidency said his
country is a sovereign state whose law must be respected.

The US ambassador has been repeatedly asserting pressure on the
Costa Rican government to get the release of the skippers, to no
avail. (R. Havana 8/26)

=================================================================

For the first time in a decade, Costa Ricans are in danger of
contracting tuberculosis or other diseases such as meningitis due
to the lack of vaccines throughout the country.

Health Ministry official, John Marin, told Prensa Latina news
agency that  the country ran out of TB vaccine a month ago. TB is
one of the main causes of death in several parts of the world.

The problem is even more serious as far as other diseases are
concerned, the stocks of vaccines are almost non-existent since Oct
1990. Since 1982, the successive Costa Rican governments have made
drastic cuts in medical assistance programs. (R. Havana 8/26)

=================================================================

        ALSO ON THE SUBSCRIBERS-ONLY WORLDP.NEWS TODAY:

                Ecuador, Rwanda, Liberia, Germany

                        SUBSCRIBE!
Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive
From: harelb@math.cornell.edu (Harel Barzilai)
Subject: NORTH AMERICAN WORKER-TO-WORKER NETWORK (New Organizations)
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Originator: daemon@pencil.cs.missouri.edu
Organization: ?
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 05:10:59 GMT

[Via misc.activism.progressive from LaborNet's apc.labor]
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Topic 200       FREE TRADE LABOR EVENTS/NEWS/RESOU 
labornotes      apc.labour       9:13 am  Aug 28, 1992 
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                    NORTH AMERICAN WORKER-TO-WORKER NETWORK 
                              FREE TRADE MAILING 
                              7435 Michigan Ave. 
                               Detroit, MI 48210 
                                (313) 842-6262 


NEW ORGANIZATIONS 

Committee for Arizona-Mexico Labor Solidarity. The group aims to 
bring together labor activists with Central America human rights 
supporters and others. Initial project is to organize showings of 
"$4 a Day? No Way!" Contact CAMLS 17249 N. 7th St., Apt. 2187, 
Phoenix, AZ 85022. Tel: (602) 493-1950. E-mail via PeaceNet: 
aenglish, rneugebauer. 

New Location: Juarez office for maquiladora work. Inquire at 
Asociacion Para Justicia en las Maquiladoras, PO Box 79, El Paso, 
TX 79940. 

International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers (IBEW) Local 46 
has a Free Trade Committee to "educate workers on the NAFTA and 
its effect on working people." For more information, contact 
Edward L.  Pecotte, IBEW Local 46, 2700 First Ave., Seattle, WA 
98121. Tel:  (206) 876-6444. 

Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive
From: rich@pencil.cs.missouri.edu (Rich Winkel)
Subject: Today's Quote...
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Originator: daemon@pencil.cs.missouri.edu
Organization: ?
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 08:35:35 GMT


"The intelligence of the masses is small,
their forgetfulness is great.
They must be told the same thing a thousand times"
        -Adolf Hitler

"Workers are stupid.  You have to tell them something a
million times for them to understand."
        -David Duke

[Fm. JOHN LEWANDOWSKI, 786-3512 <LEWANDOWSK_J@CUBLDR.Colorado.EDU>]


##################################################################
Mail contributions to hbar@pencil.cs.missouri.edu
(Contributions only; correspondence to my usual (Cornell) address)
Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive