HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: j-nolan@uchicago.edu (John Nolan)
Subject: Re: regarding tennis tips
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:51:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.072441.16077@eng.umd.edu>, clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin) writes:
> >> Is it just me who finds these tips useless & asinine? 
> >
> >Nope.  I find his advice just as useless as you do.
> 
>     Why are tips useless?   Because they are tips, or because of the
> quality of tips?   If you're going to say they're useless, you ought
> to say why you think it's useless.   At least that would be more 
> constructive.

Okay.  In the first place, some of the suggestions given in the Tennis
Magazine tips are things I haven't done, or have done so few times I 
have very little idea about how they are to be done correctly.  These are 
the "Hit your serve like you'd hammer an anvil for a sure ace"-variety.  
Some of the tips basically restate the obvious, such as one I read a few
months ago, to paraphrase, hit over a pyramid for a winning lob.  On a lob
you are always trying to hit over some point high over the net, why is a 
pyramid more helpful than something else?  Finally, some are so unconnected
that they seem to be non sequiturs.  One of these that I remember well is
(again paraphrasing) "volley like a hitchhiker."  I guess that the idea is
to stress a short backswing.  What I find so maddening about them is that
instead of explaining these analogies, the blurbs go right into the 
mechanics of the shot.  Perhaps the author is under space constraints?
 
> > 
> >> BTW, re: return of serve. Here is a tip I read about a few years back.
> >> I believe it was attributed to Chris. She said to use the grip of your
> >> weaker side to return serve. That way, you'd have a little extra time
> >> to prepare for a return on that side.
> >
> >I have another tip.  Try time the serve by doing a litle jump just before
> >your opponent makes contact. Once you get his motion down, you should have
> >your weight going slightly forward, and you should be balanced equally on
> >the balls of both your feet, just as he hits his serve.  From this position
> >you can go in either direction and can hit a pretty sharp return with a 
> >shorther backswing.
> 
>     I just mentioned this in a previous post.   Why does this work?
> Why not be at the balls of your feet to begin with?  It almost seems
> to throw another bit of timing to the return.   I see pros do it all
> the time, but I still can't fathom why.
> 

I have just noticed that someone else has answered this, but I will also
give it a try.  I *feel* that this technique helps me to concentrate on the
ball and the timing of my opponents serve.  This keeps me involved in the 
match, whereas if I stand there passively *I* can drift mentally and hit
the ball off my heels.  I also find that the slight forward movement, with
the split-step keeps me aggressive in that I am hitting the ball on the rise.

I will try to be more explicit next time. Sorry.

-john
From: gaf5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Gail A. Fullman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Re: Monica's Prime??
Date: 16 Dec 92 12:59:13 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University


>Remember just a few years ago Graf appeared to be so invincible and
>mentally tough?
>--
>-- Shun Cheung,    electronic: shun.cheung@att.com    voice: (908) 615-5135
>
Right.  And everyone was predicting many future Grand Slams (all 4 in one
year) for her.  Some now feel Monica will win multiple Grand Slams.  But you
never know who is waiting in the wings to break through.
-- 

------------------------
|   Gail A. Fullman    |
|   Manager - ADMO     |
|   Ext. 83113         |
------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: frank@austin.ibm.com (F. Karner)
Subject: Re: When the ball hit the body
Originator: frank@karner.austin.ibm.com
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:37:37 GMT
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstation Division


In article <1992Dec15.121509@cs.utwente.nl>, stadt@cs.utwente.nl (Richard van de Stadt) writes:
> In article <Bz9JJx.28AF@austin.ibm.com>, frank@austin.ibm.com (F. Karner) writes:
> |> 
> |> In article <88749@bcsaic.boeing.com>, huang@bcsaic.boeing.com (Mingyuh Huang) writes:
> |> > A question here regarding the rules, maybe somebody can help me. 
> |> > 
> |> > It happened in a double game last weekend. Over a quick net
> |> > exchange, I hit the ball on my opponent's knee (sorry, :-). The ball bounced
> |> > back to our side and went off the court. I thought I won the point because
> |> > the moment the ball touches the body the point is over. 
> |> > 
> |> > The interesting thing was both my opponents argued that because the body (of
> |> > the person who got hit) was in the motion of hitting the ball therefore,
> |> > according to the rules, they should get the point.
> |> 
> |> No, what you can't hit (or even touch) is the net.  The only
> |> restriction, I think, is that the ball bounces at most once in play
> |> (within the court's boundaries), how you choose to return it is your
> |> choice.  You can use your knee, head, baseball bat, frying pan, etc.,
> |> without making one iota of difference.  You may not get many balls
> |> returned using something other than a tennis racket, but the
> |> alternatives are legal.
> 
> So, in your opinion, I may also catch the ball (with my hand of course) and throw
> it down anywhere in the opponent's field? In this way I only touch the ball once
> (though it's quite a long touch). I don't think I agree with you.
>  
> 
> Richard.
> -- 
> R.R. van de Stadt ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ stadt@cs.utwente.nl
> Usually I use vi instead of xedit^[:wq

What I provided in my post was my own humble opinion, based partly on
recollection of the rules and also common sense.  Of course, there is
one very easy way to find out: go check the doggone rules, and see for
yourself!

As an alternative to catching the ball with your hands (of course), let
me propose that you string your racket so loosely as to become a "net"
thus holding the ball...  See what happens?

Holding (or catching) the ball is illegal, regardless of how you
accomplish it.  You must hit it.

Let's check the rules, and discuss the possible interpretations if there
are ambiguities.  First one with the official rule post wins a brownie
point!
-- 

         DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed in this posting are mine
            solely and do not represent my employer in any way.
       F. A. Karner AIX Technical Support | karner@austin.vnet.ibm.com
From: jonas@beor.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Josef Nelissen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Grand Slam Cup - final result
Date: 14 Dec 92 07:23:32 GMT
Organization: Rechnerbetrieb Informatik - RWTH Aachen
NNTP-Posting-Host: beor.informatik.rwth-aachen.de

Michael Stich d. Michael Chang 6:2 6:3 6:2

-- 
Josef Nelissen, Lehrstuhl fuer Angewandte Mathematik, insbesondere Informatik,
RWTH-Aachen, Ahornstr. 55, W-5100 Aachen, Germany, Tel. +49 241/80-21060,
FAX +49 241/80-21079, e-mail jonas@beor.informatik.rwth-aachen.de
* You gave your life to become the person you are right now. Was it worth it? *
From: byron@netapp.com (Byron Rakitzis)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Re: Tennis Players' Education (Was: ESPN tennis)
Date: 16 Dec 92 16:32:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Dec16.163210.2714
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Dec16.110449.8401@neptune.inf.ethz.ch> mzedtwit@iiic.ethz.ch (Maximilian Joachim Paul Zedtwitz) writes:

>I don't think Becker is a "drop-out". It's just that mandatory school
>normally ends at around age 14 or 15, after nine years of education. 

A "drop-out" doesn't need to be breaking the law; you can be a college
drop-out, for example. It simply connotes a lack of commitment.

>I don't know about the other players. It would be interesting to know, but 
>their education is certainly irrelevant to their Tennis ability.

Of course! But tennis players retire ~30 yrs old. What do you do after
that?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: netapp@netcom.com (Byron Rakitzis)
Subject: Re: ESPN tennis
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 06:33:22 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.025202.5503@eng.umd.edu> clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin) writes:

>    As a side note, it seems that Stich's English is quite good.
[...]
>A little of a British accent, in fact.

To most Europeans, that "ideal" accent for English is the British
accent. (Think about it. Where are the English-speaking countries
in Europe? :-)

>I'm not sure why
>he sounds much better than other Germans including Boris Becker and Steffi
>Graf.

If he learned young enough, he could attain that kind of fluency.
There's a certain age (8??) beyond which learning foreign languages
becomes very difficult. European kids are exposed to foreign languages
much earlier than American kids. Also, in countries like Holland
growing up bi, tri, etc. -lingual is a way of life.
From: jeff.kling@brent.uucp (Jeff Kling) 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: RE: GRUNTING RULE
Date: 16 Dec 92 01:26:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Brentwood BBS Harrison, NY  914-835-7898
Reply-To: jeff.kling@brent.uucp (Jeff Kling) 

-> There have been plenty of players before Seles who have grunted
-> during matches. I wonder why it's become a bigger concern now.

Gron: Grrrrrrrrrrunt!!!

How're things, Bart?  Been sending you messages but I guess you've been
off the VAX for awhile.  Try sending me a test message, both public and
private.  I'm not sure the private mode will work.  How's MA?  How's
your new job going?  How's everything?  Tell all.

J
                                                                                       
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: mfv23060@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Maurice F. Vallejo)
Subject: forehand
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:31:53 GMT

Hello, 'tennis nut' here:

	I've been playing for quite a while, and my backhand is worse than
my forehand!!!  Anyhow, the problem is that on my forehand I roll my 
wrist too much and go across my body.  I do pretty well against people
that give me pace, but because of the wrist roll, I am aweful when I play
against 'dinkers'.  I also hit sort of open stanced.
	I'm learning the conventional closed stance forehand with the
forward follow through; I'm making progress.
Can anyone give me tips on how I can inprove the forehand groundstroke
with a closed stance?
How do I get out of the habit of rolling my wrist (my biggest problem)?
How can I improve my swinging motion so that I can hit through the ball?
and finally....What are the proper mechanics of an OPEN Stance forehand?
Any tips and advice is totally welcome.
Sincerely:
Moe

Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: shun@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (shun.cheung)
Subject: Re: Mary Pierce
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 22:24:35 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.204307.25644@walter.bellcore.com>, donna@attic.bae.bellcore.com (Donna Feliciano) writes:

>> However, I have not seen her play that often.  I did see her play Mary Joe
>> Fernandez in the U.S. Open this year... that was not a pretty sight.
> 
> I agree about Mary Pierce.  She is a really strong player.  I think she
> needs to work on her serve (toss is really high and she has kind of an
> awkward motion - she bends her knees a lot and seems to hit the ball
> at its worst spot)and, the big thing: she needs concentration and confidence.  
Pierce's ranking has climbed very quickly. I recall she was in the 40's
last year at the US Open (1991) but is 13 now. I agree with Donna's points.
In addition to those, Pierce essentially plays with no strategy and
wastes a lot of points. Moreover, she seems to have quite a few injuries.

> I think all of the stuff with her father has created a mental monster. If
> she had the 3/4 of the mental strength of Seles, say, she would be 
> top 5 material SOON.

That's probably true, but then for many players, if they had 3/4
of Seles' mental strength, they would have done much better. I would
say Sabatini, Novotna and perhaps Capriati all fall into this category.
I believe that is something one is born with and there really isn't
a whole lot one can do about it.
-- 
-- Shun Cheung,    electronic: shun.cheung@att.com    voice: (908) 615-5135
     AT&T, 480 Red Hill Road, Middletown, NJ,  07748  USA
From: cs30@prism.gatech.EDU (SMITH,CHRISTOPHER G)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Stich vs. Sampras result (Grand Slam Cup)
Date: 12 Dec 92 22:50:36 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


Press `n' to skip result:


Stich d. Sampras   7-6 7-6 3-6 7-6

..Chris

-- 
Christopher Smith, Georgia Tech (Atlanta)          csmith@cc.gatech.edu
From: clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Re: ESPN tennis
Date: 15 Dec 92 02:04:59 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Maryversity von Uniland, College Park
Originator: clin@bandwidth.eng.umd.edu


In article <1992Dec14.200323.12881@cbis.ece.drexel.edu>, arijeet@lorelei.ece.drexel.edu (Arijit Das) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.025202.5503@eng.umd.edu> clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin) writes:
>>
>>noticed it when he won Wimbledon, but he seems even better now, speaking
>>almost accentless English (except that he pronounces Stefan's name more like
>>Schtefan).  A little of a British accent, in fact.   I'm not sure why
>>he sounds much better than other Germans including Boris Becker and Steffi
>>Graf.
>>
>
>Maybe it is because he decided to complete high school unlike the Becker,
>don't know about Steffi Graf.

    That's some high school.   In the US, you would hardly find anyone
who spoke a foreign language well upon completing high school.  Of course,
US schools aren't known for students learning to speak foreign languages
with any fluency.

--
Charles Lin
clin@eng.umd.edu
From: cs30@prism.gatech.EDU (SMITH,CHRISTOPHER G)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Re: group
Date: 17 Dec 92 17:59:45 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


> Most posts that contain scores have keywords like "results" or "scores"
> in the header, so you can achieve your desired result by leaning on your
> newsreader.

When the tennis season starts anew (after Christmas), I'll standardize
my News and Results article headings so that those people who want to use
some type of newsreader filter to capture only certain articles may do
so.

..Chris

P.S.  Happy holidays to all.

-- 
Christopher Smith                        csmith@cc.gatech.edu
College of Computing, Georgia Tech       404/853-0937
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: shun@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (shun.cheung)
Subject: Re: Spoiler: Stich/Krajicek
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 14:57:43 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.220425.366@rat.csc.calpoly.edu> mliu@garden.csc.calpoly.edu (Mei-Ling L. Liu) writes:
>In article <Bz406q.IE7@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> snewstea@zeus (S.A. Newstead) writes:

>The clapping is annoying, but it's to be expected, I suppose.  This
>happened at the Edberg-Stitch match on Wednesday as well.   And there's
>no question that Stitch has been helped by the crowd in both matches.
>IMHO there are too many tournaments that take place in Germany, but
>I heard that they can sell lots of tickets, so who can argue with money?

The crowd wasn't at all wild or something. Give Stich some credit
for playing great tennis in Munich. Stich broke Edberg because he
played some wonderful returns (both 1st set tie-break and the final break),
not because of the crowd. I feel sorry for Edberg since he played great
tennis too, but unfortunately, one of them just had to lose and it
happened to be Edberg this time.

>>Has Karjicek beat any top 5 players to date?

>Yes, Edberg for one.  In fact, up until the U.S. Open, Edberg had a
>0-2 record against Krajicek, who was the youngest player to reach
>round four at that tournament this year.
>He's a force to come.

Just off the top of my head: Krajicek beat Stich at the Australian
Open this year (Stich was in the top 5 at the time). Krajicek also
beat Courier at Antwarp and Chang in Frankfurt a few weeks ago.
I agree, he is another big server and a force to come.
-- 
-- Shun Cheung,    electronic: shun.cheung@att.com    voice: (908) 615-5135
     HR 1A-304, AT&T Bell Labs, 480 Red Hill Road, Middletown, NJ, 07748 USA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: "john russell" <john.russell@canrem.com>
Subject: grunting rule
Reply-To: "john russell" <john.russell@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 14 Dec 92 22:38:27 EST

Yes, there is a double standard, but it's fair according to the rules...
i.e., you can force someone to stop grunting if it's distracting to you.
I'm sure an umpire has the discretion to decide "this grunt isn't any
louder than the crowd noise, so it's OK".

In the case of McEnroe's grunting, the people that McEnroe
typically grunts against these days are ranked ahead of him and are
beating him.  When he starts making noise, that's a sign that he's
struggling and gives his opponents a surge of adrenalin -- so they don't
complain.

When Seles grunts, she's generally whipping someone 0 and 1.  The
loudest noise comes not when she's straining and failing to reach a
shot, but when she smacks a disdainful winner.  Because those grunts
make her opponents fume (and are quite loud), they are by definition
distracting and can be banned.

John
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: mliu@garden.csc.calpoly.edu (Mei-Ling L. Liu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Re: ESPN tennis
Date: 13 Dec 92 22:24:19 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, UCSB

In article <1992Dec13.214720.20477@actrix.gen.nz> Kent.Nelson@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes:
>I've just started watching ESPN, in particular the tennis. Doesn't Mary Carillo
>murmuring during points bug people? She whispers in this really low voice, and
>can't understand a word she says. It's really irritating, and its when I go to
>turn the volume up that the crowd cheers really loudly.
>-- 
The whispering is inaudible and has been pointed out by a sportswriter
in the newspaper U.S.A. Today.  I myself have just written to ESPN
to thank them for their generous televising of the Grand Slam
Cup, and then complain about this whispering business.  Perhaps if
more people write to them, they will get the message.   Once again,
ESPN's address is 
    935 Middle St., Bristol, CT 060010, U.S.A.

M. Liu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: groy@nlm.nih.gov
Subject: BACKSPIN & SLICE
Reply-To: groy@nlm.nih.gov
Organization: National Library of Medicine
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 20:23:42 GMT


Could anyone please explain me the difference between a backspin and a slice
shot, and also, how and when to execute these shots effectively...
Thanks....


---
--
Gautam Roy

               ***********************************************
               *      Allied Signal Aerospace Company        *
               *      Communication Engineering Branch       *
               ***********************************************

##################################################################################
Email Address: groy@nlm.nih.gov                 Work Phone: (301)-496-4496
Fax : (301)-402-0341                            Home Phone: (301)-982-3238
##################################################################################
From: cs30@prism.gatech.EDU (SMITH,CHRISTOPHER G)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: News, Dec 17
Keywords: Davis Cup
Date: 17 Dec 92 17:48:21 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


Tom Gorman will be the US Davis Cup Captain again in 1993.  The decision
was actually made before the USA vs. Switzerland Final, but announcement
was delayed until now.

..Chris

-- 
Christopher Smith                        csmith@cc.gatech.edu
College of Computing, Georgia Tech       404/853-0937
From: gaf5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Gail A. Fullman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Re: Monica's Prime??
Date: 18 Dec 92 13:09:12 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Dec17.133353.1549@zip.eecs.umich.edu>, marmoset@mondo.engin.umic
h.edu (Dave Walker) writes:
>One thing that hasn't been mentioned so far in this discussion, and
>something that could have a big effect on her game next year, is
>that towards the end of this year Seles developed what could
>be considered a "big serve", at least on first serves anyway.  She,
>I believe, had the fastest serves among the women at the US Open,
>for instance.
>
>She's greatly improved what had been considered one of the main
>weaknesses in her game.
>
>---
>Dave Walker, Scummy Sticky Stuff, Inc.
>marmoset@mondo.engin.umich.edu            "cheddar and cheez is for meez"
>
Hats off to Monica who is not afraid to try something new and develop more
versatility to her game.  Too often some top players figure they are at the
top and stay with what worked in the past.  When others players develop the
"cure" and the player has nothing else - well, the rest is history.
-- 

------------------------
|   Gail A. Fullman    |
|   Manager - ADMO     |
|   Ext. 83113         |
------------------------
From: ushlee@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Re: When the ball hit the body
Date: 14 Dec 92 10:24:46 -0600
Organization: Memphis State University

In article <88749@bcsaic.boeing.com>, huang@bcsaic.boeing.com (Mingyuh Huang) writes:
> A question here regarding the rules, maybe somebody can help me. 
> 
> It happened in a double game last weekend. Over a quick net
> exchange, I hit the ball on my opponent's knee (sorry, :-). The ball bounced
> back to our side and went off the court. I thought I won the point because
> the moment the ball touches the body the point is over. 
> 
> The interesting thing was both my opponents argued that because the body (of
> the person who got hit) was in the motion of hitting the ball therefore,
> according to the rules, they should get the point.
> 
> I didn't argue on the spot because it's just one of those weekend games 
> but later became very curious about the call.
> 
> Now, I have been playing the game over for 10 years and always thought that the 
> moment the ball touches the body the point is over. Is there something that
> I don't know? Is there indeed a rule regarding body in motion and the ball?
> What's the truth?
> 
> 
> /Huang
> 
I think U should won the point in that situation. Otherwise, if U hit any part
of body still can get the point, why use the racket then? I can use my foot, my
hand or my head to hit back to my opponents, can't I?
Pat
From: GE.TEG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Tito E. Gervacio)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Tennis Racket Is For Tennis Points
Date: 17 Dec 1992 16:25:11 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

>
>From: frank@austin.ibm.com (F. Karner)
>Subject: Re: When the ball hit the body
>
>
>In article <88749@bcsaic.boeing.com>, huang@bcsaic.boeing.com (Mingyuh Huang) writes:
>> A question here regarding the rules, maybe somebody can help me.
>>
>> It happened in a double game last weekend. Over a quick net
>> exchange, I hit the ball on my opponent's knee (sorry, :-). The ball bounced
>> back to our side and went off the court. I thought I won the point because
>> the moment the ball touches the body the point is over.
>>
>> The interesting thing was both my opponents argued that because the body (of
>> the person who got hit) was in the motion of hitting the ball therefore,
>> according to the rules, they should get the point.
>
>No, what you can't hit (or even touch) is the net.  The only
>restriction, I think, is that the ball bounces at most once in play
>(within the court's boundaries), how you choose to return it is your
>choice.  You can use your knee, head, baseball bat, frying pan, etc.,
>without making one iota of difference.  You may not get many balls
>returned using something other than a tennis racket, but the
>alternatives are legal.
>--
>
>         DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed in this posting are mine
>            solely and do not represent my employer in any way.
>       F. A. Karner AIX Technical Support | karner@austin.vnet.ibm.com

 No, that's what the tennis racket is for.  To hit the ball in order
 to get a point.

 Have fun.

 -TEG
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis