From: sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani)
Subject: Re: CFV: soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya moderated
Summary: Allah must judge ahmadis
Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 22:30:17 GMT

In article <1e8eppINNkvl@CURIE.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU>, ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Waiz Ahmed) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Nov16.064310.27540@tamsun.tamu.edu>, gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal) writes:
> > >In article <1e4bdfINNhai@CURIE.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU> ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Waiz Ahmed) went on about...
> > >>
> > >>But ultimately, the majority vote is implemented.  Since the majority
> > >>of Muslims do not wish to be associated with Ahmadis, there is no
> > >>reason to force that association.  Nobody is denying the Ahmadis the
> > >>right to practice their religion.  But by adopting the name "Islam"
> > >>they are somehow associating with other Muslims.  Since Muslims far
> > >>outnumber Ahmadis, it follows that the Ahmadis should reconsider the
> > >>semantics.
> > >
> > 
> > So, at some time in the future (a century or two perhaps), IF the Ahmadis 
> > outbreed the majority muslims now, then it stands to reason that you would 
> > no longer be a muslim if they did not wish to consider you a muslim !! 
> > Whatever happened to "Islam is between man and Allah (and no one in between)".
> 
> 
> I've read all the followups with interest and none of them address the
> key issue.  Creating "IF" situations like Gopal does above seems to be
> very popular, but hypthethical scenarios are Gedanken experiments of
> little use.  The answer to what constitutes a Muslim is given in
> Islam's holy book itself, the Qur'an.  I have quoted from it to show
> how sects are not allowed, and the minute one divides from the
> religion (i.e. what the Qur'an teaches), once ceases to be part of
> Islam.  Since Muslims believe in the Qur'an, that is how they look
> upon the situation.
> 

Anybody who wants to call himself (or herself) a muslims can do so.
It is upto GOI to decide if that claim is correct. We cannot takeover
the dommain of GOI.

It is unfortunate that some of us  take upon themself the duty to decide
that who has the right to call themselves muslims and who has no such right.
That right is reserved for GOI.

> Note that this all has nothing to do with right to practice whatever
> religion one likes.  The Ahmadis are more than welcome to practice
> whatever they like, to have their own newsgroup, etc.  In this
> situation, however, they are in conflict with an existing newsgroup,
> and since Muslims believe in the Qur'an, they have a problem if
> another group would like to use the "Islam" title.
> 

As I understand Islam, nobody has the copyright over word ISLAM.
Anybody can use it. I know many people who drink and claim themselves
to be muslims, should we declare them as non-muslims. They can do
whatever they want. Acording to Islam, they will have to answer
GOI. Why cant we leave it that.  

Consider the case of a book store called MUSLIM BOOK STORE, which has a
checking account with a local bank and collects interest. Obviously
interest is not allowed in Islam, so the bookstore (as a business) is not 
Islamic and hence we have to demand that he should change the name
of his bookstore.  Can the bookstore still sell books about Islam.

> I wonder why it is that soc.religion.christian.mormon never passed?  I
> wonder why it is that none of the people who are raising a big fuss
> now thought of complaining back then?  Could it be more of the
> stereotypical anti-Islamic trash the net is plagued by?  But isn't
> this a contradiction?  Since they believe that Ahmadis are Muslims,
> they will end up supporting "Islam" one way or the other...
> 
Christianity has a well established chruch, which is supposed to
interpret bible, while muslims claim that Islam does no such interpretation.
Islam is between a person and GOI.

Soc.religion.islam.ahmadi could be a newsgroup to discuss the issues
related to islam and ahmedis. Obviously, they have a lots of things
in common, so it should be an interesting newsgroup. I strongly support
the formation of this newsgroup.

BTW, Gopal Jee, please get out of the prophet business :-)
(I cant allow anybody in my business).

regards,

-Naveed