HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: Serbian Sanctions
Date: 16 Aug 92 01:03:40 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


From clarinews@clarinet.com (PETER S. GREEN) Fri Aug 14 22:34:33 1992

	PRAGUE, Czechoslovakia (UPI) -- Russian delegates, saying Serbia
should not shoulder all the blame for the Yugoslav civil war, Friday
blocked an international resolution condemning the fighting.
......
......
	But Russia has also been accused in recent news reports of turning a
blind eye to shipments of fuel and munitions to Serbia.
	``The Russians are still trying to figure out the best role for
themselves in the Balkans. They still don't quite grasp that the Cold
War is over,'' one diplomat at the meeting said.
	....
-- 

	mark	


   hubey@pilot.njin.net                   hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
 ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey                  hubey@logos.montclair.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.romanian,talk.politics.soviet
From: prizsi@a-l3wl03.cern.ch (Miklos Prisznyak)
Subject: Re: Romania or Roumania ?
Organization: CERN European Lab for Particle Physics
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:21:03 GMT

bucur@pollux.usc.edu (alexander bucur) writes:

>In article <1992Aug18.082128.28961@kth.se> mihai@nada.kth.se (Mihai Dorobantu) writes:

>>other points of view or informations. So perhaps Sasha Bucur
>>should not be so hard on Erland Sommarskog's usage of
>>ROUMANIA. I am sure that it is no plot of the Hungarians or
>>other foreign agencies!

 Er... Is that ABSOLUTELY sure that's not a Hungarian plot to take over Transylvania? :-))) 


>As for the Gypsy influences there are many people around the world that say
>that Romanians are Gypsies (heard it more than once).  This kind of "facts"
>make me so angry sometimes.

 Gypsy people refer to themselves as Romas. If those officials hadn't wanted to emphasize 
 the direct relation of Romanians and Romans, i.e. they had stuck with Roumania or Rumania... :-)
 I suggest Dacia as next version..  :-)  ( A few people will have some unwanted associations 
 with a certain not really excellent car then, unfortunately... but that's life..  :-)   )

   
>Sasha Bucur


 Miklos

PS:  Watch the :-) 's ...  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
From: euaaen@eua.ericsson.se (Anders Engwall)
Subject: Re: How many languages do you speak mutlu?
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 08:09:52 GMT

ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis ) writes:

> Master Untrue Totally Lying Unit (MUTLU) I have a simple question for you: 

> You have used Greek and French references in the past.  I'm asking you
> if you speak Greek and French. Well, do you? 
[...]
> Add German to my previous question.

Judging by some other references used, you may also add Dutch and
Finnish to it. *What* a language whizz!

--
Anders Engwall				Email: Anders.Engwall@eua.ericsson.se
ELLEMTEL Utvecklings AB			Voice: +46 8 727 3893
"Alvsj"o, Sweden			Fax: +46 8 727 42 20
		"Bryna nuppa fj{ssa sp}nken" - Razor
From: cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: Hats off to Maggie (not "Meggy")
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:17:38 GMT
Organization: University of Keele, England

From article <1992Aug17.141353.13726@clsi.COM>, by kevin@clsi.COM (Kevin Cameron):
>> detest came out as the only European statesman/stateswoman of stature to
 
> I don't think this is an appropriate adjective for M. Thatcher, I don't recall
> her doing anything to further "European" ideals in her entire time in
power.

Well she was anxious to integrate Eastern Europe into Western Europe
more quickly than many self-proclaimed Europeans were. This leads us
onto the usurpation of this title. Defending a concept of a Europe of
Nations is as European, if not more so than trying to force everyone
into a bureaucratic monolith. It's very tiresome to find that the
Jacques Delors fan club (a diminishing band it seems) continually
usurping this tag. I'm a European which is why I'm against Delors'
"Europe" which isn't.

Andy
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: REHASH: Native names and uninformed opinions
Date: 22 Aug 92 09:28:09 GMT
Organization: Enea Data AB

Peter B. Maggs (pmaggs@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu) writes:
>There is a theory, to which I subscribe, that countries that insist on
>foreigners using their native-language name are headed toward third
>world status.  Examples:  don't care what you call us countries:
>Germany, Sweden, Switzerland, Norway, England.

People from the UK seems to be quite picky when you refer to their
country as England.

>spell our capital in the native way - Beijing.

How many natives do you think spell the Chinise capital "Beijing"?


-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
Life is wonderful when the wonderlife is full
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
From: ck@cs.tulane.edu (Cris Koutsougeras)
Subject: Re: OMEDEI SUPPORTS MACEDONIA
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-19074]: saturn
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Tulane Univ., New Orleans, LA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 04:44:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug16.191458.21802@enea.se> sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:

>>The EEC was convinced that the claims of Greece were legitimate
>
>Convinced because else there would be one country saying no to
>Maastricht? I'm sorry my friend but that conviction is likely
>to not be more than skin deep.

Mr. Sommarskog, it seems - judging from your attitude in general -
that you try hard to find the "unusual" point of view.  You just have
to be "different".  If that helps your self-esteem that's fine with
me, but you just pull it too far sometimes.  Where did I claim that
Greece "threatened" with Maastricht and that therefere that was how
EEC was convinced?   Greece made a case based on history, future
senarios regarding the intentions of Skopijans, and based on their
arguments as well.  Your comment is too petty, or "skin deep" to say
the least.

>
>>Should Skopije be
>>called Macedonia, 10 years from now Alexander and Fillip would be
>>thought of as Skopije's great-grandfathers and then everyone would
>>think that your claims of aqcuiring the lands of Fillips tomb are
>>legitimate (of course in the mean while you will manage to cultivate
>>the propaganda that there are "Macedonians" who live there).
>
>Only if Greece would do a poor job of education.

And why does Greece "have to" go around for ever on telling that the
claim of Skopie is false ?  Why do we have to expend that effort, just
because Skopie finds that way to solve its internal problems ?  Should
Greece take up YOUR education, or do you think that YOUR teachers
would bother to make that distinction in your schools?  You are not
being serious of course.  If you feel that you have to find something
to pull why don't you go look somewhere else, we are kind of tired.

-ck
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
From: laku@vipunen.hut.fi (Lauri H Eklin)
Subject: Re: European language?
Reply-To: laku@vipunen.hut.fi (Lauri H Eklin)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 07:38:59 GMT

In article <JL.92Aug19161804@SHELLEY.SP.CS.CMU.EDU> jl@CS.CMU.EDU (Juan Leon) writes:

>   I choose English and French because a large portion of the world
>(and hence of worldly Europeans) understands those.  I choose German 

	French is a language which has a lot more "respect" and use
	than it actually deserves (sorry, couldn't think of a nicer
	word) to. French is NOT understood in the least bit as widely
	as English or German, at least in europe. In Africa, due to
	the French influation on their former colonies, it is a different
	thing. 
	However, it is a question of a kind of a power-struggle. France
	has (or at least has had) a dominating role in the EC. They will
	try to hold on into it and having French as "the most official
	language" is indeed useful. And there has to be some regional
	balancing. There will never be such a happy-together borderless
	europe that people would accept the choice of official languages
	from a purely convenience (sp?) point of view. 



>  Something should be done at the same time to limit the loss of language 
>differences, for the sake of cultural richness.  Encourage local languages
>in human expression, discourage them in civil servant doublespeak.

	Yes, but having our "Standardized Nordkapp to Palermo" -europe 
	(Yes, IknowIknow, a cynical exagerration (sp?)) this will be
	difficoult. Emphasizing your small minority -language will or
	can lead to the growth of nationalism. Whether it is good
	or bad, that's up to you. 


>  So does anyone know what "Brussels" is trying to do in this regard?
>
	Is it just me or does anybody usually know what "Brussels"
	is up to? 

>Juan

Lauri


Xref: sparky soc.culture.europe:7544 soc.culture.romanian:794 talk.politics.soviet:7144
From: masjpf@gdr.bath.ac.uk (J P Fitch)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.romanian,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Russian intervention in Moldova?
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:41:33 GMT
Organization: School of Mathematics, University of Bath, UK


sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes...
	I'm sorry, Stalin is dead

At first I missed the comma with my aging sight, and i thought that
the age of universal forgiveness and peace had arrived, and who knows
maybe we will all grow to love M***u

==John
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
From: marshall@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (Jim Marshall - DCS)
Subject: Re: Who is at fault for the Serbia-Bosnia War?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:45:51 GMT



This explains why you think the EEC is responsible but
you didn't give your reasons for the Americans??






 Jim M.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.romanian,talk.politics.soviet
From: mihai@nada.kth.se (Mihai Dorobantu)
Subject: Romania or Roumania ?
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 08:21:28 GMT


I see that the issue of the "correct" English spelling (ROMANIA 
or ROUMANIA) is brought up.

As far as I know, the classical spelling in English is
RUMANIA or ( scenting some French influence ) ROUMANIA.

However, the Ro(u)manians have changed their
point of view about their descent a few times in history.
And they tried to change the language too!

Anyhow, after the slavic period of the 50ies, we went through
a strong Latin period during Ceausescu. It was then that
Cluj became Cluj-Napoca, Turnu Severin became Drobeta-T. S. etc.
It was then that the Ro(u)manian goverment's officials insisted
for the English spelling of ROMANIA ( in French and in German
it sounded too bad ). This is a little ridiculous, because it
is an anti-phonetical spelling.

But things can be worse: I have been seriously asked 
if there is any connection between the country's name 
and its' Gipsy minority !

But back to the spelling. Webster gives both ROMANIA and
ROUMANIA as a variant. My edition of the concise OXFORD 
(which is old) gives ROUMANIA and I have seen an English-
German dictionary (Cassell-1978) spelling RUMANIA with 
the ROUMANIA variation.

I think that we can use whatever we like ( or feel better ),
but we should also understand that others can have
other points of view or informations. So perhaps Sasha Bucur
should not be so hard on Erland Sommarskog's usage of
ROUMANIA. I am sure that it is no plot of the Hungarians or
other foreign agencies!

Perhaps some linguist could enlighten us on this subject.

Mihai Dorobantu

Dept.for Numerical Analysis and Computer Science
The Royal Institute for Technology, Stockholm - Sweden
From: G0900@vmcms.csuohio.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: wanted Greece slides
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:41:25 GMT
Organization: CSU


 
I have just returned from my trip to Greece and while there I purchased
some slides.  I am interested in locating a way to purchase more slides.
Does anyone have any information on where I can buy slides or know anyone
that sells slides?   Is there such a place/person that loans slides out?
 
Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.  I am also interested in
photos, books or even postcards.
 
Katherine Pasalis  g0900 at csuohio  or g0900 at vmcms.csuohio.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
From: berne@nova2.stanford.edu (Jean-Francois Berne)
Subject: Re: limit
Organization: Stanford University
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:45:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.111837.20944@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> murraysd@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Stephen D Murray) writes:
>
>
> Isn't it time to put a limit on the number of articles any one person
>can post to a newsgroup in one day?                

Very good idea. This would shut H.Bastard.Mouth.
Is it possible to change the status of sce from unmoderated
to moderated in the sense S.Murray proposes it?
From: cel+@andrew.cmu.edu (Carl Loeffler)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: EXPEDITION 92- MUNICH
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:44:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.UeZ19Ka00WBM854297
Organization: Studio for Creative Inquiry, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

All,
 
I am working with a group that prepares a cultural and academic
congress. It follows the official press text (published in CompuServe):
 
expedition T92 -- Launching New Worlds of Learning
 
Europe+s largest workshop on the future will start off into unexplored
dimensions of human thinking on 10th September: New paths to knowledge
for the year 2000. A 
revolution in learning has to follow up the altered apearance of our
world, an appearance which has been changed by computer, science, and
the new media.
 
Under the auspices of the UNESCO and the Commission of the European
Community Rexpedition +92S will explore new worlds of learning. Together
with you more than 50 scientists and pioneers from all over the world
will make Europes largest Zukunftswerkstatt a success: information
science, literature, architecture, pedagogics, the sciences, and
philosophy in more than 100 events.
 
Participants are, among others: scpecialists from the Massachusetts
Institute of Technology, Joseph Weizenbaum, Paul Watzlawick, Heiner
Mueller, Hubert Dreyfus... More than 1,500 participants will transform
Munich+s Kulturzentrum Gasteig into a laboratory of learning.
 
Learn by playing. Music, theatre, and performances add on to lectures,
base stations, and workshops. Six expedition groups explore learning
from new perspectives. An international meeting place for all those who
want to participate ingiving shape to schools, commercial and industrial
enterprises, and universities.
 
For information and registration, please contact the organizer: 
 
FWU Institut fuer Film und Bild in Wissenschaft und Unterricht,
Bavariafilmplatz 3, D(W)-8022 Geiselgasteig Muenchen,
telephone ++49 (89) 649-7239,
facsimile ++49 (89) 649-7300.
 
Registration fee is DM 890, students DM 120.
 
- Roman Gerike, Technical University at Darmstadt, Germany
 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.europe:7406 soc.culture.german:5682 soc.culture.italian:3317
From: chepan@gsusgi1.gsu.edu (Parthasarathy Nambi)
Subject: Need info about a Ph.D. thesis from Utrecht (urgent!)
Summary: info about a phd thesis
Keywords: PhD, chemistry, thesis, Utrecht
Organization: Georgia State University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:00:19 GMT


	Hi,

		We need to get a copy of a Ph.D. thesis from
	Utrecht. Any one can help?  

	The info we have is:

	Author: P.H. Wiersema

	Place: Utrecht (we are not sure this is a city and/or university
			name).

	Year: 1964

	Title: ?

	If any one know of an e-mail address for Utrecht please let us
	know.

	Thanks in advance.

	P. Nambi  or Stuart Allison

	Department of Chemistry
	Georgia State University
	Atlanta, GA 30303, USA

	Phone: (404)-651-3865

	e-mail address: chepan@gsusgi1.gsu.edu ( for Nambi)
			chesaa@gsusgi1.gsu.edu ( for Allison)
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: OMEDEI SUPPORTS MACEDONIA
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:44:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bt586M.C2D
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:

>No, Panos, I wasn't serious in the sense that I think that Greeks
>are brainwshed. And had you been careful to read my second paragraph
>before you resorted to your knee-jerk reaction, you would also have
>understood that and not have wasted band-width and typing time. I was
>however very serious my with my point: just as you can make arguments
>that Macedonians are brainwashed, you can make the same arguments
>about Greeks and both are equally inappropriate.

 No, they are not inappropriate in the case of Skopjiens.  When people
 say to me that "Macedonians existed for so many thousand years that they
 even mentioned in the bible", and many similar things, I have every
 right to believe that they are brainwashed. 

>)Since you smart ass think that Solun is shorter than Thessaloniki,
>)I think that Sommar* is shorter than Sommarskong. Got it?

>Almost right there, but there is one letter to much at the end.
>Anyway, if you find Sommarskog too long to type, you are welcome
>to call me Erland, if that is simpler.

 I'd do it promptly, had you started using Saloniki instead of the longer
 Thessaloniki. Thus, it depnds upon you ...

>-- 
>Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
>Life is wonderful when the wonderlife is full

-- 
---> Panos Tamamidis
     University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: OMEDEI SUPPORTS MACEDONIA
Date: 16 Aug 92 18:17:31 GMT
Organization: Enea Data AB

I said in argument with the claime that the Maceodnians have been brainwashed:
))No, it's the other way round. It is you and your fellow Greeks who
))are brain-washed with "Macedonia is Greek" from day one in junior
))school. Independent scientists long before present-day Macedonia
))was formed questioned the Greekness of ancient Macedonia. Some Greek
))dictator objected against that and started a brain-washing programme,
))which worked so well, that these days you can only find a handful of
))persons in Greece who can look objectively on this matter.
)
))No, the above does not represent my opinion. But it is good food
))for thought. I think writing off other people's will as they have
))been "brain-washed", is a very bad one.

Panos Tamamidis (ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu) bursted out in the
space between the two paragraphs:
) I've told you to SHUT UP AND CLOSE YOUR BIG MOUTH. Can't you read?
)
) Now, are you serious about what your are writting? ...
) <Longer rebuttal of my first paragraph deleted>

No, Panos, I wasn't serious in the sense that I think that Greeks
are brainwshed. And had you been careful to read my second paragraph
before you resorted to your knee-jerk reaction, you would also have
understood that and not have wasted band-width and typing time. I was
however very serious my with my point: just as you can make arguments
that Macedonians are brainwashed, you can make the same arguments
about Greeks and both are equally inappropriate.

)Since you smart ass think that Solun is shorter than Thessaloniki,
)I think that Sommar* is shorter than Sommarskong. Got it?

Almost right there, but there is one letter to much at the end.
Anyway, if you find Sommarskog too long to type, you are welcome
to call me Erland, if that is simpler.
-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
Life is wonderful when the wonderlife is full
From: hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: Winter in BiH
Date: 19 Aug 92 01:09:18 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


From clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI) Tue Aug 18 06:41:13 1992

	GENEVA (UPI) -- The situation in the former Yugoslavia is a prelude to
Europe's worst winter war in 50 years, a spokesperson for the United
Nations High Commission for Regugees (UNHCR) said Tuesday.
	Shortages of basic necessities to get the population through the
traditionally harsh Balkan winter, combined with the ongoing ethnic
fighting, are shaping up as a major disaster which will affect at least
2 million people, UNHCR spokesperson Sylvana Foa told a news conference.

....
....
	Questioned on her statement that 2 million people would be affected
in ex-Yugoslavia this winter, Foa said the number is made up of some
850,000 persons trapped in besieged towns in Bosnia-Hercegovina, another
500,000 living in tent camps in Croatia and some 600,000 still in their
homes in the various republics but suffering from the effects of the
fighting.
-- 

	mark	


   hubey@pilot.njin.net                   hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
 ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey                  hubey@logos.montclair.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
From: marshall@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (Jim Marshall - DCS)
Subject: European Army Corp
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:01:19 GMT


Was wondering what the feelings are about the establishment
of the Franco-German joint army corp.  What is its purpose?
Where will (could) it be used etc.??

Jim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.usa
From: luciano@athos.Berkeley.EDU (Luciano Lavagno)
Subject: Re: The logic of Madness and World Politics
Keywords: The new order in the world, EC, NAFTA, EC vs. NAFTA , EC in Yugoslavia and beyond
Reply-To: luciano@athos.Berkeley.EDU (Luciano Lavagno)
Organization: UC Berkeley IC CAD Group
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 00:46:22 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.233756.22148@daimi.aau.dk>, simonl@daimi.aau.dk (Simon
Laub) writes:
>Luciano Lavagno wrote:
>>... But again, we are not the only ones, and the
>> US needs a balancing power , now that the Soviet
>> Union is no more.
[...]
>  On the question of sending 100.000 eurosoldiers
>to Yugoslavia , you seems to be positive --- anyway,
>we as europeans ought to handle our own backyard and
>end the humanitarian nightmare -- you seems to be saying ?
>
>  If I stretch your argumentation we also have to send
>troops to Somalia and a dozen other places.

Sorry, you misunderstood my point. In my opinion, the least violence achieves
the best results in such a situation. To summarize my previous (too numerous)
postings:
0) we, as rich Europeans and Americans, have to handle such situations
everywhere in the world. At least because they are too often the legacy of
colonialism or of the cold war, so we did the damage and we should help fix it.
1) strict embargo enforcement is better than sending in troops, or, even worse,
weapons.
2) Red Cross or UN inspection of concentration camps (I would not call them
extermination camps, yet) is better than sending in troops.
3) violence only produces only more violence (by positive feedback, as somebody
else pointed out).
Ciao !
Luciano

-- 
Luciano Lavagno            luciano@ic.Berkeley.EDU            +1-510-642-5012
Dept. of EECS, 207-69 Cory Hall, Univ. of California, Berkeley, CA 94720, USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
From: suopanki@zombie.oulu.fi (Heikki Suopanki)
Subject: Re: mutlu.gif (a present to Mutlu's fans)
Reply-To: suopanki@phoenix.oulu.fi
Organization: Unixverstas Olutensin, Finlandia
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:04:07 GMT


covdy@cronos.metaphor.com (Ivan Covdy) writes:

>By popular demands, I'm posting mutlu.gif to this group, too.

Did you post it to alt.binaries.picturess.tasteless? It certainly
belongs there. 

-Heikki
Xref: sparky soc.culture.europe:7405 soc.culture.turkish:8972
From: luciano@athos.Berkeley.EDU (Luciano Lavagno)
Subject: Re: European language?
Reply-To: luciano@athos.Berkeley.EDU (Luciano Lavagno)
Organization: UC Berkeley IC CAD Group
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 23:12:40 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.222822.9936@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>,
mb2p@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Marco  Bertamini) writes:
[...]
> Let me point out however that there are other issues
>to solve, in order to make international communication easier.
>I hope you agree that we need to get rid of miles, inches, 
>feet, and other silly and obsolete units!!
Just yesterday I learned of a unit called "slug", equivalent to 32.2 pounds,
defined as 
"the gravitational unit of mass in the fps system to which a pound force can
impart an acceleration of one foot per second per second"
Ciao ! :-) :-)
Luciano
-- 
Luciano Lavagno            luciano@ic.Berkeley.EDU            +1-510-642-5012
Dept. of EECS, 207-69 Cory Hall, Univ. of California, Berkeley, CA 94720, USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.uk,soc.culture.europe