From: Jeffrey D Koperski <jkopersk@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.atheism.moderated
Subject: Non-New Testament Documentation
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 21:15:22 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Ohio State University

Here is an abridged list of non-Christian, non-New 
Testament primary sources that provide independent 
historical backing for the New Testament record. 

Cornelius Tacitus (ca. 55-120 A.D.)
    -Roman historian.
    -_The Complete Works of Tacitus_, Moses Hadas,
     ed., 15.44. 

Gaius Suetonius Tranquillas
    -Chief secretary of Hadrian (117-138 A.D.)
    -_The Twelve Caesars_, "Claudius," Robert 
     Graves, trans., 25.4. 

Flavius Josephus 
    -Court historian to Vespasian.
    -Note: Scholarship is split over the amount of 
    corruption there is in the _Antiquities_.  
    -Discounting entire passages because of a later 
    editor's influence is a minority position.
    -_Antiquities_, 18:3, 20:3.

Thallus (quoted by Julius Africanus ca. 221)
    -No primary source in print.  See Johannes 
     Quasten, _Patrology_, 137-138.

Pliny the Younger
    -Roman author and administrator (ca. 112)
    -_Letters_, William Melmoth, trans., X:96.

Emperor Trajan
    -Reply to Pliny the Younger
    -Ibid., X:97.

Emperor Hadrian
    -Reply to Minucius Fundanus, Asian proconsul.
    -Eusebius, _Ecclesiastical History_, Christian 
    Frederick Cruse, trans., IV:IX.
        -Note: Eusebius is often an unreliable 
         source.

Other primary source authors:
    -Lucian
    -Mara Bar-Serapion
    -Gnostic literature
    -Christian non-New Testament sources 
        (e.g, Clement of Rome)

I hope to make this my last post for some time.  
The person specifically demanding this list has 
already said he will not spend the time reviewing 
the information because of "considerable" time 
spent in previous research.  What can one say?  
Challenges have been issued to me in the past two 
weeks and I've answered with both arguments and 
sources.  Only so much can be done on this net 
format and the quality of the dialogue is waning, 
unfortunately.  Answers to difficult questions can 
be batted around--and I've had a wonderful time at 
it, it's true--but the search for knowledge cannot 
be made easy. 

I too have done considerable research and if we 
must compare classes taken, books read, papers 
written, and hours spent, I think my efforts to 
date will stack up well.  If those of you (on 
BOTH sides) consider the issues expressed to be of 
great importance, then you simply must commit 
yourselves to some difficult and time-consuming 
reading and thinking.  I realize, of course, there 
are those of you who are doing that very thing, 
again, on both sides.  But the postings seem to 
suggest that some people consider themselves to 
have "arrived" and need not consider further 
evidence.

Let me say finally that the best philosopher in 
the world today is an atheist, W.V. Quine.  He is 
one of my heros and I hope to emulate his rigor 
and keenness of thought in everything I do.  
Quine, unfortunately, will likely die in the next 
twenty years and when he does the top philosopher 
in world will be a theist, Saul Kripke, a former 
student of Quine's.  The philosophical community 
has great respect for both men.  In this 
community, atheists and theists respect one 
another's work and views.  I have tremendous 
respect for my professors, most of whom are 
atheists.  I believe I have the respect of my 
colleagues and they have mine.  It is the very 
nature of the discipline to be self-reflective and 
search oneself and others for inconsistency.  
Members of the Society of Christian Philosophers 
are not afraid of life without God nor are they 
ignorant of the issues involved.  Science and 
logic do not elude us; we often teach them both.

My point is simply that many theists and 
specifically Christians (not to rule out other 
theistic positions) are considered to be 
intellectually on par with the best minds in the 
world.  We could be wrong in what we believe, but 
we are no better and no worse off than any other 
intellectual community.  There are ignorant 
atheists and there are ignorant Christians.  Their 
ignorance does not taint the rationality and 
intellectual honesty of anyone else, atheist or 
theist. 

Jeff Koperski
Dept. of Philosophy
Ohio State