HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: michaelb@cse.fau.edu (Michael Rogero Brown)
Subject: Re: Geography Help Needed
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton, FL, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:37:26 GMT

In article <20715@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie) writes:
>In article <1992Dec31.112943.4791@spcvxb.spc.edu>, surrey_d@spcvxb.spc.edu writes:
>> 
>> Help please.
>> 
>> I am starting a  new graduate Geography course for k-12
>> teachers and will include as much as possible on Native
>> Americans. One of the things that might help teachers
>> teach their students is the taking of names for both
>> current cites - Missouri, Mississippi, etc - and for
>> products - Pontiac, Cherokee. I need more such examples
>> as well as any other ideas you might have.
>> 
>> Thank you.
>
>The taking (one might say "ripping off") of Native American names for
>places and products (and professional sports teams) is the most
>superficial way in which we have been influenced by Native American
>peoples and culture. Do some reading on the various food crops
>that were first cultivated by indigenous Americans. Maybe talk
>about how native cultures in various geographic regions were 
>adapted to their environment (and, indeed, how close to the land
>those cultures were). How about the mechanisms of democracy which
>the "Founding Fathers" borrowed from the Iroquois League? (I know,
>this is history, not geography, but it should be taught.)
>
An excellent source of this information can be found in Jack Weatherford's
books _Indian Givers_ and _Native Roots_.  They tell of the influence the
Native Americans had not just on our language and geography, but on our
government, culture, economy, diet, and a lot more.  The books are not
dry academic works, but very interesting stuff for everyone.


-- 
<< Michael Rogero Brown                      | Disclaimer: I speak     >>
<< CS Graduate Student-Florida Atlantic Univ |  only for myself.       >>
<< Internet: michaelb@sol.cse.fau.edu        | All my opinions are     >>
<< BitNet: m_brown@fauvax                    |  that: mine & opinions. >>
From: darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie)
Newsgroups: alt.native
Subject: Re: Geography Help Needed
Date: 5 Jan 93 00:30:27 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of California, Davis

In article <1992Dec31.112943.4791@spcvxb.spc.edu>, surrey_d@spcvxb.spc.edu writes:
> 
> Help please.
> 
> I am starting a  new graduate Geography course for k-12
> teachers and will include as much as possible on Native
> Americans. One of the things that might help teachers
> teach their students is the taking of names for both
> current cites - Missouri, Mississippi, etc - and for
> products - Pontiac, Cherokee. I need more such examples
> as well as any other ideas you might have.
> 
> Thank you.

The taking (one might say "ripping off") of Native American names for
places and products (and professional sports teams) is the most
superficial way in which we have been influenced by Native American
peoples and culture. Do some reading on the various food crops
that were first cultivated by indigenous Americans. Maybe talk
about how native cultures in various geographic regions were 
adapted to their environment (and, indeed, how close to the land
those cultures were). How about the mechanisms of democracy which
the "Founding Fathers" borrowed from the Iroquois League? (I know,
this is history, not geography, but it should be taught.)

Good luck with your course.

Richard Darsie
darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu

Newsgroups: alt.native
From: s1mbm@isuvax.iastate.edu (michael bruce mcdonald)
Subject: Re: Question of Nativity
Reply-To: s1mbm@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 10:39:22 GMT

In article <9301061453.AA16852@mamia.tecumseh.edu>, Peshewegunzh <beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!mthvax.cs.miami.edu!mamia!peshe> writes:
>Original-Sender: Peshewegunzh <mthvax.cs.miami.edu!mamia!peshe>
>
>Besides being incorrect, genetically and otherwise, this is an
>attempt to diminish us as merely another facet of the new European
>order rather than being the rightful owners and occupants of this
>continent. Send this idea back to the Hell it must have come from.

Peshewegunzh, I think I understand the anger which prompts this statement,
and certainly agree that "Siberian-Americans" is a foolish and
unfortunate formulation.

Even so, does it really further your cause to insist on the notion that Native
Americans are the "rightful owners and occupants of this continent"?  Is such
ownership--and the sort of understanding of occupancy that follows from the
notion of ownership--consistent with the traditional worldview of your
people?  Does our discussion of the justice and dignity your people
require--and that Euro-Americans had damn well better learn to see are
required of *us*--truly depend on this notion of "rightful ownership"?
It just seems to me that an ideological position that insists on justice in
accordance with this idea of "rightful ownership" is bound to be self-
defeating as a point of discussion with Euro-America, however important it
is to insist on this point within your community.

Respectfully,

michael mcdonald











 



>
>American Indians are  *not* "Siberian-Americans". Get real. Learn
>some history (if it still has any meaning in academia).
>--
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Peshewegunzh
>
>peshe%mamia.UUCP@mthvax.cs.miami.edu
>mthvax.cs.miami.edu!mamia.UUCP!peshe
>peshe@mamia.UUCP
>mthvax!mamia!peshe
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
Newsgroups: alt.native,news.groups
From: fischer@iesd.auc.dk (Lars Peter Fischer)
Newsgroups: alt.native,news.groups
Subject: Re: Proposed 2nd RFD: soc.culture.native
Date: 8 Jan 93 03:15:50 GMT
Organization: Mathematics and Computer Science, Aalborg University


>>>>> "Mike" == Mike Wilson (idoy@crux1.cit.cornell.edu)

Mike> NEWSGROUP: soc.culture.native
Mike> STATUS: unmoderated

Mike> CHARTER: soc.culture.native is for the discussion of issues 
Mike> relating to native populations throughout the world.  This 
Mike> newsgroup is intended to be inclusive, not exclusive, offering
Mike> an important site for exchange among native peoples and between
Mike> native and non-native peoples.  Topics of discussion will include
Mike> such issues as national sovereignty, freedom of religion, 
Mike> spirituality, and philosophy.  

I'm still confused. Who is included in "native populations throughout
the world"? Does this include white, germanic people in nothern
Europe? Is this the place to discuss the effects of the events in the
years 200-600 on the peoples of Europe, the nationalities, cultures,
religions, and languages?

/Lars
--
Lars Fischer, fischer@iesd.auc.dk | It takes an uncommon mind to think of
CS Dept., Aalborg Univ., DENMARK. | these things.  -- Calvin
Newsgroups: alt.native,news.groups
From: idoy@crux1.cit.cornell.edu (Mike Wilson)
Subject: Re: Proposed 2nd RFD: soc.culture.native
Organization: Cornell Information Technologies
Date: 12 Jan 93 01:12:30 GMT

speights@iear.arts.rpi.edu (Arlen Speights) writes:

>fischer@iesd.auc.dk (Lars Peter Fischer) writes:

>>Mike> CHARTER: soc.culture.native is for the discussion of issues ...

>>I'm still confused. Who is included in "native populations throughout
>>the world"? Does this include white, germanic people in nothern
>>Europe? Is this the place to discuss the effects of the events in the
>>years 200-600 on the peoples of Europe, the nationalities, cultures,
>>religions, and languages?

>I think that there should be a sentence or two in the charter itself
>that explains the problems of nomenclature we've been discussing and
>what "native" means in the context of the group.  It seems that "native"
>is the easiest word for the naming of the group, but the charter should
>make it as clear as possible that surviving indigenous cultures of
>the world are the main subject of discussion; it should in fact cover
>all of the names we've been throwing around, like "aboriginal" and 
>"first nation," etc.  What do you think?

>Arlen


Hello Arlen,

Good to hear from you again. I am taking your point to heart in
the revision of this proposed charter.  Look for it in the next
couple of days, and let me know whether I've sufficiently clarified
the problem of defining the groups of people under discussion.

Thanks,

Mike


==========================
Michael Wilson
idoy@crux1.cit.cornell.edu
==========================
From: gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us (Gary S. Trujillo)
Subject: Re: Proposed 2nd RFD: soc.culture.native
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 14:33:03 GMT

In <idoy.726320509@crux1.cit.cornell.edu> idoy@crux1.cit.cornell.edu
	(Mike Wilson) writes:

> Any input about the creation of this newsgroup is welcome
> and appreciated.

How much time do we have to work things out?  By my calculations, the
call-for-vote announcement should be going out soon.  Has anyone checked
with the net powers-that-be to find out whether we can get additional
time for discussion?

Gary
--
    Gary S. Trujillo                            gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us
Somerville, Massachusetts              {wjh12,bu.edu,spdcc,ima,cdp}!gnosys!gst
Newsgroups: alt.native
From: iamok.enet.dec.com!"iamok: :serv01::gentile"
Subject: RE: Question of Nativity
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:00:30 GMT

Original-Sender: iamok.enet.dec.com!"iamok::serv01::gentile"

This message is unbelievable. There is growing evidence every year to
support what native americans have known for thousands of years - that
they never came over the Bearing Strait. They have always been here.
Siberian americans!

Newsgroups: alt.native
From: tamvm1.tamu.edu!cyber.Widener.EDU!Melissa.I.Bamba
Subject: nativity
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 06:17:02 GMT

Original-Sender: cyber.Widener.EDU!Melissa.I.Bamba

In response to Mr. Ryans original letter "nativity":
It is my understanding that everyone who came to this continent later
are/is a foreigner-European, Asian, or African.

I personally believe Euro-American, Asian-American, and African-American
are misnomers.  I refer to myself as an African, period!  I defer to my
landlord (the rightful 'owners'/guardians of this land-the Native American
Nation(s) ) when it comes to being called an American.

Maybe those people that came after should adopt the names, European-colo-
nist, Asian-colonist, African-colonist, if they really want to be identified
with the shameful history of Us Settler Colonialism!  I prefer not to, so as
I said I call myself an African.  I call this historically, culturally,
genetically, anthropologically, and humanistically CORRECT!

My Brother Malcolm X had a saying:  If a cat has kittens in an oven it don't
make them biscuits!

Forward Ever!
Melissa Sankofa-Bamba

Newsgroups: alt.native
From: GRS03109@CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU (*GRS9999102)
Newsgroups: alt.native
Subject: music
Date: 11 Jan 93 17:14:43 GMT
Organization: APPALACHIAN STATE UNIVERSITY
NNTP-Posting-Host: stat.appstate.edu
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

Can anyone tell me where I can obtain live recordings of Indian singing?
I am primarily interested in music of the Southern Plains, but anything
will do.  
Xref: sparky alt.native:1600 news.groups:25119
From: warkent@ltisun14.epfl.ch (Ken Warkentyne)
Newsgroups: alt.native,news.groups
Subject: Re: Proposed 2nd RFD: soc.culture.native
Date: 7 Jan 93 13:21:10 GMT
Followup-To: alt.native
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne---Laboratoire de
	Teleinformatique
In-reply-to: idoy@crux1.cit.cornell.edu's message of 6 Jan 93 11:41:49 GMT

Hello Mike,

  Perhaps you could use the word "aboriginal" instead of "native"
in the text of the charter.  Otherwise, I am afraid that you
will provoke more complaints about "who is a native".
--
Ken Warkentyne - warkent@ltisun.epfl.ch
                 Laboratoire de Teleinformatique, EPFL, Suisse.
Newsgroups: alt.native
From: beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!anchor.esd.sgi.com!lyn (Lyn Dearborn)
Subject: Re: Northern Exposure
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 09:10:51 GMT

Original-Sender: anchor.esd.sgi.com!lyn (Lyn Dearborn)

Marianne Dugan commented on last week's Northern Exposure:

>What that part made me wonder was -- was that really Alaska
>native type music and dancing?  It looked and sounded like plains
>music and dance.

I guess only an Alaskan native can answer that, BUT, it looked/sounded
like PowWow music in general, and probably shouldn't be referred to as
Plains music/dance.  Unfortunately (to a certain extent) the summer PowWow
circuit tends to sound/look very similar, whether you are on the Plains,
the Pacific States, Crow Fair, North Dakota, etc.  Certainly, this music
doesn't represent "California Indians", for example, which can be recognized
anywhere, and is RARELY performed at PowWows, where you would be likely to
see a group sitting around a large drum, singing.  Nor is it anything like
the dances you would see at Second Mesa, or Zuni Pueblo, but it is/was very
typical of what you would encounter at a PowWow ANYWHERE across the country.
The key word here is "PowWow" ... a coming together of many different peoples/
nations/tribes.

Its funny ... I was just asked to teach a class on "Plains Indians" to school
kids this spring ... I tentatively declined, saying that I know little about
Plains Indians...  my son interceded and said "Mom, who were we dancing with
all over Montana, Wyoming, etc., this summer?"  That's different kid, that was
PowWow time on the Plains, not the life and culture of Plains Indians ... Huh?

Say, What?  You see, my son, nothing is as simple as it appears ....

lyn

^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^
"We did not weave the web of life.  We   | Lyn Dearborn
are merely a strand in it.  Whatever     | Naturalist/Person
we do to the web, we do to ourselves"    | dearborn@anchor.esd.sgi.com
		Chief Seattle 1854				 | 415/ 321-1075
^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^




Newsgroups: alt.native
From: idoy@crux1.cit.cornell.edu (Mike Wilson)
Subject: Re: Proposed 2nd RFD: soc.culture.native
Organization: Cornell Information Technologies
Date:  8 Jan 93 00:53:49 GMT

warkent@ltisun14.epfl.ch (Ken Warkentyne) writes:

>Hello Mike,

>  Perhaps you could use the word "aboriginal" instead of "native"
>in the text of the charter.  Otherwise, I am afraid that you
>will provoke more complaints about "who is a native".
>--
>Ken Warkentyne - warkent@ltisun.epfl.ch
>                 Laboratoire de Teleinformatique, EPFL, Suisse.

Hello Ken,

That is a very good point. On the other hand, we might keep the word
native in there sometimes because it is, after all, the name of the
group.  In other words, intermix the two words "native" and
"aborginal" so everyone knows what we mean by "native."

What do you think?

Mike


==========================
Michael Wilson
idoy@crux1.cit.cornell.edu
==========================
Newsgroups: alt.native,news.groups
From: idoy@crux1.cit.cornell.edu (Mike Wilson)
Subject: Re: Proposed 2nd RFD: soc.culture.native
Keywords: native, new newsgroup
Organization: Cornell Information Technologies
Date:  6 Jan 93 19:30:53 GMT

idoy@crux1.cit.cornell.edu (Mike Wilson) writes:

By way of clarification: this is by no means an official 2nd RFD.
It is merely a proposed or test 2nd RFD, which we should revise 
to be accepteble to a concensus.

Cheers,

Mike

>NEWSGROUP: soc.culture.native
>STATUS: unmoderated

>CHARTER: soc.culture.native is for the discussion of issues 
>relating to native populations throughout the world.  This 
>newsgroup is intended to be inclusive, not exclusive, offering
>an important site for exchange among native peoples and between
>native and non-native peoples.  Topics of discussion will include
>such issues as national sovereignty, freedom of religion, 
>spirituality, and philosophy.  

>--------------------------------------------

>Any input about the creation of this newsgroup is welcome
>and appreciated.

>==========================
>Michael Wilson
>idoy@crux1.cit.cornell.edu
>==========================

Newsgroups: alt.native
From: beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!anchor.esd.sgi.com!lyn (Lyn Dearborn)
Subject: Belated New Year's greetings:
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 09:39:01 GMT

Original-Sender: anchor.esd.sgi.com!lyn (Lyn Dearborn)

Gleaned from the "Amer. Radio Theater of the Air" 12/29/91
Sung to the traditional tune of Auld Lang Syne


IN BED BY NINE/**NEW** AULD LANG SYNE


The older my acquaintance gets, the more I am inclined
To skip the noise on New Years Eve, and be in bed by nine
I'm yawning as the party starts, and nodding as we dine
The ball has dropped, and so have I, for I'm in bed by nine


    Lets be in bed by nine, my dear, lets be in bed by nine
    We'll celebrate at half past eight and be in bed by nine

    Lets be in bed by nine, my dear, lets be in bed by nine
    We'll celebrate at half past eight and be in bed by nine


 Hope it's a better one for all of us

lyn

^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^
"We did not weave the web of life.  We   | Lyn Dearborn
are merely a strand in it.  Whatever     | Naturalist/Person
we do to the web, we do to ourselves"    | dearborn@anchor.esd.sgi.com
		Chief Seattle 1854				 | 415/ 321-1075
^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^+^




Newsgroups: alt.native
From: rjp1@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (be here now)
Subject: Re: Northern Exposure
Expires: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 01:00:00 GMT
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 19:55:08 GMT

Peshewegunzh,

I am enjoying reading your views on and about the tv set.
Have you ever read The Santaroga Barrier by Frank Herbert?
Strange story with a twist on the real meaning of tv watching.

I feel that the tv can be best used as a tool for learning.
Unfortunately, this seems to be among the rarest of cases.


--
Bob Pietkivitch     | "Moon, my long lost friend, is smiling from above."
rjp1@ihspa.att.com  |  -- Genesis, Stagnation 1970
From: Indian Law Resource Center <ilrc@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: alt.native
Date: 05 Jan 93 10:20 PST
Subject: Law student writing competition
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1308200098:000:1399
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!ilrc    Jan  5 10:20:00 1993


The Indian Law Resource Center announces prizes for innovative
law student writing on American Indian Law.  The competition is
dedicated to the memory of Petra Shattuck, whose friends have helped 
make the prize awards possible.  Professor Shattuck, a legal
scholar and strong advocate for Indian rights, was particularly
interested in exposing and remedying injustice that Native Americans
suffer under the law.

Only law students are eligible to participate.

The award for first prize will be $2,000.  The second and
third prize awards will be $1,000 and $750, respectively.  Prizes
will be awarded on the basis of originality of scholarship, 
innovation and creativity in analysis of some aspect of Indian law.
The articles and commentaries eligible for consideration include
those prepared during the 1992-93 academic year, whether or not
published.

	Submissions should be postmarked by May 1, 1993 and sent
to the address below.  Please include your mailing address for the
summer of 1993.  Manuscripts should be double-spaced using a 
letter-quality type-face.  No special format is required.  The
prize winners will be selected by a committee of scholars named
by the Indian Law Resource Center.  Manuscripts will not be returned.
For further information contact Steven M. Tullberg or Curtis G. Berkey:
Indian Law Resource Center, 601 E Street, SE, Washington, D.C. 20003, (202) 547-2800.


Newsgroups: alt.native
From: Dana Numkena <beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!asuvm.inre.asu.edu!ASDMN>
Subject: Re: The B.I.A.
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 05:45:27 GMT

Original-Sender: Dana Numkena <asuvm.inre.asu.edu!ASDMN>

To whoever interested,
     I haven't read Nativenet for a long time, and I just read some the
messages for the past 15 days.  Excuse me for the long reply.
     I talked to a Chairman of a reservation a few years ago about what
he thought about terminating the BIA.  Even though terminating the BIA
is a popular thought amongst the Indians, the belief was in the
Chairman's interest.  He said that even though the BIA has impeded
tribal progress, terminating the BIA would not be a good idea for this
particular reservation.  He didn't believe that the tribe would be able
to keep the reservation from the state.  Also, terminating the BIA would
stop goverment funds (whatever they might be) earmarked to this
particular reservation.  In sum, the tribe is not able to be self-
sufficient in order to keep the reservation from the state.
     From my point of view, I would have to agree with this Chairman.
The BIA, in a sense, does provide a shelter from the state.

Dana Numkena
Internet: asdmn@asuvm.inre.asu.edu
Bitnet:   asdmn@asuacad
From: thom@crayfish.ucsd.edu (Thom Cleland)
Newsgroups: alt.native
Subject: Re: Question of Nativity
Date: 11 Jan 93 02:02:18 GMT
Organization: Tenuous at best
NNTP-Posting-Host: crayfish.ucsd.edu

In article <C0HC9n.Fsq@news.iastate.edu> s1mbm@isuvax.iastate.edu writes:
>In article <9301061453.AA16852@mamia.tecumseh.edu>, Peshewegunzh <beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!mthvax.cs.miami.edu!mamia!peshe> writes:
>>Original-Sender: Peshewegunzh <mthvax.cs.miami.edu!mamia!peshe>
>>
>>Besides being incorrect, genetically and otherwise, this is an
>>attempt to diminish us as merely another facet of the new European
>>order rather than being the rightful owners and occupants of this
>>continent. Send this idea back to the Hell it must have come from.
>
>Peshewegunzh, I think I understand the anger which prompts this statement,
>and certainly agree that "Siberian-Americans" is a foolish and
>unfortunate formulation.
>
>Even so, does it really further your cause to insist on the notion that Native
>Americans are the "rightful owners and occupants of this continent"?  Is such
>ownership--and the sort of understanding of occupancy that follows from the
>notion of ownership--consistent with the traditional worldview of your
>people?  Does our discussion of the justice and dignity your people
>require--and that Euro-Americans had damn well better learn to see are
>required of *us*--truly depend on this notion of "rightful ownership"?
>It just seems to me that an ideological position that insists on justice in
>accordance with this idea of "rightful ownership" is bound to be self-
>defeating as a point of discussion with Euro-America, however important it
>is to insist on this point within your community.
>
>Respectfully,
>
>michael mcdonald
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>>
>>American Indians are  *not* "Siberian-Americans". Get real. Learn
>>some history (if it still has any meaning in academia).
>>--
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>Peshewegunzh
>>
>>peshe%mamia.UUCP@mthvax.cs.miami.edu
>>mthvax.cs.miami.edu!mamia.UUCP!peshe
>>peshe@mamia.UUCP
>>mthvax!mamia!peshe
>>
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>

-- 
Thom Cleland     \ /^^/  >Neural systems/network physiology< >Amigaphile<  
(619) 453-7516    \OO/  >Aoinagi Shito-ryu == bend, and the wind passes <
tcleland@ucsd.edu  ++  >B3 f cdv g++ k+(+) m s+ r+ p growl+ purr++ zzz- <
"Wild magic is graven in every rock, every tree, in every blade of grass"