HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: burris@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Jim Burris)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 31 Aug 92 16:33:37 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: TI Semiconductor Process and Design Center

In article <01010064.bt7ipq@titipu.meta.com> ed@titipu.meta.com (Edward Reid) writes:
>dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov (David Paul Encisco) writes:
>> You could probably take
>> a cow into the National Forest if you wanted.
>
>NO!!!  Please be careful about what you write -- you may encourage someone
>to do something irresponsible.  The situation is not as simple as you make
>it seem.
>
>You MUST stop by the ranger office and get a permit before taking your cow
>into the National Forest.  There is a nominal charge for the permit, which
>is usually valid for one year.
>
>Edward Reid  (8*}>
>  eel:   ed@titipu.meta.com  or  nosc.mil!titipu.meta.com!ed
>  snail: PO Box 378/Greensboro FL 32330

And it MUST be a specially trained cow, trained to help the whatever impaired
enjoy the BACKCOUNTRY(R). No slug-a-beds on recreational cows allowed!

Jim Burris
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: smmyers@pbhyg.PacBell.COM (Sean M. Myers)
Subject: Re: Pasta cooker 4 backcountry
Reply-To: smmyers@PacBell.COM (Sean M. Myers)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 18:30:14 GMT

In article <17u6bpINN75u@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> mtnbiker@singletrack.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>Folks,
>
>I'm planning a trip in Yos. for 2 nites and wish to eat REAL food on the
>first nite.  We are only going up to little Yos valley, niting there and
>then half dome via the cables and maybe merced lake.  Back to the subject
>there are going to be four of us and I'm a big eater, what can I use to 
>cook 1lb of spaghetti??  should I use macaroni instead?  I will pre-make
>the meatsauce and pack it in in a PB jar. It is a fairly short hike and
>all total I will be carrying less than 30 lbs.
>
>Can a Peak1 cook a lb. of pasta??
>Is it feasible to use just one large pot for all the cooking??
>
 
Dan,

     If possible, pre-cook the pasta and then after draining, stir in
about 1 TBLS of corn or vegetable oil and then seal it in an airtight
container/seal-a-meal bag, then you don't have to waste MEGA water cooking
it on the trail, and you don't have to wait for MEGA water to boil.  If
you're concerned about "critters" growing in your pasta, try mixing in the
meat sauce first and then putting it in an airtight container/seal-a-meal
bag.  If memory serves correctly, the acidity of the tomatoes should be
more than enough to retard spoilage.

     By the way, what is Jello Juice ??  Jello mix and water ??



  -+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+-
  + Sean M. Myers (smmyers@pbhyg.PacBell.COM)| Sweater, n.:                 +
  = Systems Analyst                          |      A garment worn by       =
  + Operator Services                        |      a child when its        +
  = Software Engineering and Maintenance     |      mother feels            =
  + Pacific Bell SRV, CA. USA                |      chilly.                 +
  -+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+-
  +   Sex without love is an empty experience,    |                         +
  =   but, as empty experiences go,               |                         =
  +   it's one of the best.     -- Woody Allen    |                         +
  -+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+-
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: aa361@yfn.ysu.edu (Tom Puncekar)
Subject: K2
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 04:47:24 GMT


Does anyone know when the movie K2 will hit VHS?? I missed it in the theaters,
and REALLY wanna see it. Also, have any of you heard of a hiking boot company
called Rugged Outback? I recently saw a pretty nice pair of hiking boots from
them, and was wondering if they were any good...

...Dp...
-- 
I hate punks who play 9-Ball....
      
                         -- Eddie Felson, The Color Of Money
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: lombard@prandtl.me.washington.edu (Peter Lombard)
Subject: Re: Sole Delamination
Reply-To: lombard@prandtl.me.washington.edu
Organization: Mechanical Engineering Dept., University of Washington
	<93asw-240892204006@biology-mac01.williams.edu>
	<1992Aug24.202231.21462@hellgate.utah.edu>
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:13:36 GMT

In article <1992Aug24.202231.21462@hellgate.utah.edu> allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:


>   I have owned two pairs of the Nike "New Zelanders"  both of which have
>   delaminated around the toes.  These shoes are like most of the "beefed
>   up tennis shoes" that everybody seems to be making these days.  The
>   soles are not a true sole like a vibram and can not be resoled ;-(.  The
>   delamination has happened around the toe were the sole comes up and
>   provides some protection for the leather.  They also have delaminated
>   near the heals.  Both pairs have done this after 3 years of pretty
>   hard use so I am not surprised.  However the rest of the shoe is in
>   good and since they can not resoled I am force to buy new shoes (good
>   marketing eh ?).  It seems that many of the light wieght hiking shoes
>   are just that and can not be expected to last very long.

>   My question is have other people had this happen to their shoes and if
>   so which shoes ?  Also a has anybody tried shoe/boot made from
>   "Nubuck" leather ?  Asolo makes a boot that is made like a really
>   lightwieght boot but is all leather (a must in my book since I like to
>   climb in them) but is light weight (also a must since I may have to
>   carry them while on technical climbs)  It is alot like their Traill II
>   (I think this one is replacing it).

I have had two pairs of Asolo's delaminate. One was a pair of Yukon's
that I had used lightly for several years. The sole peeled away from
one toe while walking in wet snow. I had the soles replaced, but I had
frequent trouble with them coming loose again. When the boots wore
out, I replaced them with Asolo Couloirs. Like the Yukons, these are
very heavy, stiff hiking boots. The Yukons have the integral tongue,
while the Couloirs have the conventional tongue, which makes them a
little less water resistant. After two summers of hard use, the toe on
one boot is peeling off, and the entire sole came off the other one,
starting at the heel. This was at the south end of the Bailey Range in
the Olympics, so I had 30 miles to hike out with one slick boot and
the other one flapping in the breeze. 

While these are both heavy boots, I notice that the soles are not held
in with screws like you find in other boots. The Couloirs have a few
more years of life left in them after I get them resoled, but I don't
know what I'll get next. Maybe it's time to put an order in to Peter
Limmer... 

--
Pete Lombard
Mechanical Engineering
University of Washington
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: JB <jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com>
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Organization: NT/BNR
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1b3
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 11:51:33 GMT

In article <1449600026@igc.apc.org> Ecology Center Fund,
ecologycntr@igc.apc.org writes:
>One more point. Do you really need to flame so in a friendly discussion?
>Or did you feel I was insulting your dog? If so, please don't feel that
way.
>I'm sure its a credit to its genus. :)

I was merely responding to your sanctimonious question about why I was
out in the wilderness anyway (I being generic).  It irritates me to have
people lump dogs and dog owners into the classification of gauche clods
bumbling through the wilderness. And I stand by my argument that dog
prints are minor in the scheme of tearing up the backcountry.   Sorry if
the flames offended you, please don't take it personally.
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Good hikes in the Western Sierra
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:04:24 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Aug31.180329.18831@morrow.stanford.edu> AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:

|Frankly, I can't think of any eastern Sierra trailheads that require
|4WD.  The eastern escarpment is so abrupt that the drive in from
|US395 is pretty short.

I can think of a couple.  4WD is required for the last mile or so up the
Canyon next to Bloody Canyon.  The trailhead takes you to Gibbs Lake, and
Kidney Lake, and then crosses the summit just north of Bloody Canyon.  

Depending on road conditions the road into Levitt Lake usually requires
4WD.  

Neither of these are major trailheads.

Actually he was looking for Western Sierra trailheads.  

Since were on the Western/Eastern Sierra topic I thought I'd query the net
for some info.  I was recently reading a flytying book and the author was
talking about some great golden trout fishing in an area east of Bishop.
I looked at my maps and found that I had identified a couple of other lakes
in the area as good golden trout fisheries from a different reference.  
The area that I am looking at is Piute Pass.  The trail begins out of North
Lake (out of Bishop,Ca) over the pass and then follows Piute Creek.  Has
anyone taken this route?  What could I expect if I took this trip?  How many
days?  Has anyone gone over Piute pass from the west?  Again, I'm looking
for information on elevation gain, number of days, etc.





-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
From: psilsbee@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Peter Silsbee)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Thread Sizes (was: Exploding fuel bottles)
Date: 31 Aug 92 18:06:26 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <BtovH7.810@fulcrum.bt.co.uk> igb@fulcrum.bt.co.uk (Ian G Batten) writes:
>>>>>> On 27 Aug 92 16:09:44 GMT, gascan@dcst16.dc (Bill Gascoyne) said:
>
>Bill>  Anyone else notice that, along about a year or two ago, MSR changed the thread
>Bill>  size on the Whisperlite and their fuel bottles, so you can no longer buy a
>
>Could someone confirm this?  I have had a Whisperlite for a few years

I had no trouble mixing and matching my 8-year-old Whisperlite and bottle with
a friend's brand new ones this summer.

-Peter
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: markd@cup.hp.com (Mark_Donohoe)
Subject: Re: Exploding fuel bottles
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:27:50 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard

sheehan@pagosa.scd.ucar.edu (Tim Sheehan) writes:
: A friend recently told me that Sigg fuel bottles are not 
: reinforced at the bottom and as a result, have been known
: to explode. She told me that MSR fuel bottles are reinforced
: and that I should switch.
: 
I think this may be bogus.  For years, MSR did not make fuel bottles and
most people used sigg as the fuel bottle.  Then it seems that as soon as MSR
started making fuel bottles (too small of course!) then there seemed to be
all these stories about how sigg bottles aren't safe etc...possibly MSR
got sued or something.  I have used the same sigg for XGK and Wisperlight
stoves for at least 7+ years with no problems or sign of problems.

Plus, pressurizing the bottle alone should not cause it to explode.  Leak
maybe....think about the rubber gasket on the stove pump part...that
would probably blow first...or you would see cracks in the bottle and fuel
would leak out...  I would think you would have to pump it A LOT and VERY
hard to get an explosion...Don't think this would be possible though....


-- 
Mark Donohoe (markd@cup.hp.com)

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: boots
Date: 27 Aug 92 11:02:13 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

In article <1992Aug27.141409.14228@cs.brown.edu> pmh@cs.brown.edu (Philip M. Hubbard) writes:
>I am now considering buying a new pair of boots.  I have a few ideas about
>what I might buy, but I would love to hear any advice from people out there.
>The two options I have thought of so far are as follows:
>
>1. Buy a pair of L.L. Bean's Maine Hunting Boots and replace their
>rounded-bottom soles with Vibram soles.  A friend of mine who is a ranger at
>Denali says some of his fellow rangers like this approach because the Bean
>boots are quite waterproof.  But how comfortable are Bean boots for hiking?
>
>2. Buy a pair of light-weight (i.e., not all leather) hiking boots and a pair
>of Gore-Tex socks to make them more waterproof.  I have a few concerns about
>this chioce, though.  Are Gore-Tex socks really waterproof and comfortable in
>field conditions?  Which light-weight boots are the best?  Do the Gore-Tex
>boots remain at all waterproof and/or breathable when they get muddy?
>
>I know little about Gore-Tex socks and boots, so I would particularly
>appreciate advice on those topics.  Thanks in advance.


First, I have never owned a pair of Gore-tex socks nor to I plan to.  But
I am very skeptical about the durability of Gore-tex on any one's foot.
When it wets dirty and oily Gore-tex does not work very well.  Gore-tex
is a thin layer that does dot wear very well.  I have lots of Gore-tex 
clothing and a tent made from it.  It works when the temps are cold and 
low water vapor.  Personally I feel it is more important to keep the boot
dry.  If the temp drops while your out and your boots are wet they are going
to freeze which will not help.

BTW,  instead of trying to keep your feet dry by continuosly trying to
wick moisture away from you feet and into your outer socks and boots.
Use a Vapor Barrier Liner - the best ones are made from 2mm neoprene.

Allen R. Sanderson

Salt Lake City, Oootah


"I though you brought the rope"
	A climber to their partner after hiking in 10 miles.
From: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com (Bob Haar)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: MSR filter (was: Water treatment article from Am J Pub)
Date: 2 Sep 92 12:50:08 GMT
Reply-To: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com
Organization: G.M. Research Labs

In article la7rh0INNgur@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM, tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:
|>Also, it's too bad they didn't test the Pur and MSR filters. 

|>  The MSR is a piece of trash, according to
|>reports from the field.

Could you elaborate? I have been considering buying the MSR and
the comments I have heard have been all favorable, other than
some initial quality control problems in manufacturing that are
supposed to have been fixed.


---
	Robert Haar               InterNet : rhaar@gmr.com 
	Computer Science Dept., G.M. Research Laboratories
DISCLAIMER: Unless indicated otherwise, everything in this note is
personal opinion, not an official statement of General Motors Corp.


From: edb@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Ed Beshore)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 22:17:52 GMT
Subject: Re: Merrell balks, REI Refunds!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Greeley, CO
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

Give me boots held together with leather and thread.  No
glue for me.....
From: deannab@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Deanna Bergstrom)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 22:19:12 GMT
Subject: Re: boots
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (NMD MTA MWTD)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

I have a pair of Danner "Lite" boots, a light-weight Gore-Tex lined boot.
It has a sewn-on Vibram sole (so it can be re-soled), is part-leather/part-
Cordura, and seem to be COMPLETELY waterproof.  They got a real test in
July when I hiked on Mt. Baker (WA) and it rained for most of 3 days.
Everyone else in the party had wet feet but me.

They are higher on the ankle than most of the light-weights I've seen,
providing better ankle support.  They also are quite comfortable.

They cost about $120 3 years ago. 

I'm not associated with Danner in any way...just a satisfied customer.

Deanna

deannab@sr.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:04:36 GMT

In article <Sep03.014456.18250@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>,
trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>
>I'll argue with that.  Dogs seem very happy when brought to the backcountry.
>They love and appreciate it.  In fact, they even seem to be able to sense it
>in advance, and get excited.
>
Of course they do -- they're predators!! Its like taking kids
into a chocolate factory.  This is one of the reasons they are
discouraged or prohibited in some areas.
Introducing a predator in to an ecosystem it doesn't belong in is
fairly serious action.  Even when on a leash, they can be
disturbing.  The possibilty they might escape and become feral can
be more than disturbing.

I've been told by a NFS ranger that the unofficial policy adopted in
some area when a former domestic animal is sighted is shoot on sight
for the above reason.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: sheehan@pagosa.scd.ucar.edu (Tim Sheehan)
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Organization: NCAR/UCAR
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 19:16:32 GMT

In article <24201@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, oreagan@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Oreagan) writes:
> Crying babies also are members of the family and ruin my camping experience
> You want to bring your baby, I want to bring my dog. I'll match experience
> for experience and reason for reason. I think it comes down to who makes
> the rules for whom?

I love this logic. Well, if you bring your dog, and someone else brings
their baby, and they both disturb me, why should I worry about my
generator, motorcycle, stereo, etc. bothering you? What you get is so
many spoiled people doing exactly what they want that no one is able to
enjoy anything.

Personally, I think the backcountry is a place for nature where people
should visit is such a way to do as little harm to the environment as 
possible. They should also help others to enjoy it by disturbing others
as little as possible.

If members of your family cannot behave in such a way as to respect the
rights of others and the fragility of the vanishing wilds, then they do
not belong in the backcountry. Most people who travel the backcountry
take enough personal responsibility as to impact the environment and
others minimally, and I think we do everyone a disservice not to hold
all people to such reasonable standards.

-- 
-Tim-

sheehan@ncar.ucar.edu


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Subject: How about 10.2 lead ropes?
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu
Organization: BSU - Data Center
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 23:18:56 GMT

Just a quick, general question about using 10.2 ropes for 
multi-pitch backcountry rock climbs.  Basically, I may be
leading on one of these hummers in the Wind Rivers(Wyoming), and I've
been spoiled by years of either looking at 11mm or two 9mm
ropes.  Can these skinny little things actually hold a real
fall????  Are they really 'solid' for leading things other
than massively bolted sport routes?  Just interested in opinions.

gracias

--
Greg Jahn, Boise State Univ.|"In this selfish age, public-spirited
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu / | acts were left to the individual, and
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    / | what could the individual do on his
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  / | own?"        - Adolfo Bioy Casares
From: dovey@renoir.llnl.gov (Donald Dovey)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Oregon Wallowas
Date: 24 Aug 92 04:42:30 GMT
Reply-To: dovey@renoir.llnl.gov (Donald Dovey)
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

I wanted to share a quick anecdote about the area that prompted this
thread -- Eagle Cap Wilderness in the Oregon Wallowas.  When I was
in boyscouts, our troop would backpack in to Horseshoe Lake before
spending a week at Camp Wallowa (now closed).  One year, the rangers
measured our impact on the area around the lake and were so appalled
by the results that they held a special seminar for our troop with
a movie on low-impact camping.  So I confess:  I am a destroyer of
wilderness.  (As, to varying degree, is anyone else who visits it.)

--
Don Dovey                                              dovey@llnl.gov
From: z_rossha@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Outdoor programs for high school kids?
Date: 4 Sep 92 17:07:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: ccsvax.1992Sep4.110716.830
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <104@mipps.myapc.com>, demo@mipps.myapc.com (Demo Account) writes:
> Does anyone have experience developing outdoor programs for 
> high school age kids?  
> 
> While I was president of my college's outing club
> I would often hear people say they wished they could have done more 
> outdoor activities in high school. 
> 
> I live in an area that would be ideal for a high school outing/leadership
> organization.  I would like to know if anyone has already done this and
> if so what kind of success have they had.  I would appreciate any info
> you could send me.
> 
> Thanks..
> 
> Robert M. Hubley
> Systems Analyst 
> MYAPC                      
> 
You should call Dr. Risk or Dr. Legg at Stephen F. Austin State University,
College Of FOrestry (109)-568-3301.  Both are proffessors who have had
experience on the proffessional level developing programs for all ages.

Another good source would be the Scouts both boy and girl.
They specialize in this type of activity.

Project Wild and Project Learning Tree are government programs which may be
offered in your community and certification takes only a day.

Good lusk and let me know.> 
> 
> hubley@mipps.myapc.com
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Exploding fuel bottles
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 20:35:03 GMT

>sheehan@pagosa.scd.ucar.edu (Tim Sheehan) writes:
>: A friend recently told me that Sigg fuel bottles are not
>: reinforced at the bottom and as a result, have been known
>: to explode. She told me that MSR fuel bottles are reinforced
>: and that I should switch.
>:
I have both kinds of bottles.  One must be 15 years old.  Neither
has exploded yet.

Here's what DID (nearly) explode:  The WhisperLite valve that screws
into the fuel bottle has an O-ring that needs to be replaced from
time to time.  If it starts to leak, fuel may run down the outside
of the fuel feed hose far enough that it ignites.  The flames then
run back to the bottle.  Kerblooey!

This almost happened to me.  It was prevented only by franticly
shoveling sand over the whole thing.  I know of two other people who
have had the same experience.  Suppossedly you can inspect the
O-ring and replace it when it starts to show deterioration.
Frankly, I went through that drill regularly and never detected any
change until the thing went up in a ball of flame.  (Hmmm, O-rings
seem to have some sort of association with explosions.)

I now use a Peak 1 -- no O-rings.
From: campbell@clam.med.ge.com (Scott Campbell Mfg QIE 4-6778)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: eurka outlet
Date: 1 Sep 92 16:04:18 GMT
Reply-To: campbell@clam.med.ge.com (Scott Campbell Mfg QIE 4-6778)
Distribution: usa
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Milwaukee,  WI

Thanks to All that responded with the address phone # etc
The address and # is
          Eureka Camping Center
          625 Conklin Road
          Binghamton, NY
          607-779-2265
	  Eureka factory
          607-779-2200
The Problem now is how does one buy from the outlet.  They only
do sales in person.  Ie no mail order.  Their prices are good, but what 
good does it do.
bumed out in Wisconsin. (no reflection on the state)
.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry