Organization: The American University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:50:17 EST
From:         Jim McIntosh <JIM@AMERICAN.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Queens school board
              14 Dec 1992 15:56:01 MST from <ABDWINIG@IDBSU.IDBSU.EDU>

On Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:56:01 MST Brent Winiger said:
>Thats uncharacteristically unfair of you Jim.  Most of the complaints
>aren't about lack of receiving money, but rather about having our kids
>indoctrinated with anti-Christian values, and being discriminated against.

I appologize for being unfair. I have never really understood the desire
by some people to get government to support their religious platforms,
whether we're talking about prayer in school or a nativity scene on the
court house lawn. I fear that if prayer were still allowed in school we'd
be having great battles over who's prayer it would be. It seems better to
allow schools and government institutions to be secular, as long as the
government is willing to stay out of the affairs of the Churches.

>     We aren't criticizing lightly Jim.  The values or lack thereof that our
>society buys into now, will have incredibly serious consequences in the next
>several years.  We are already seeing the results of that drift in the
>social problems of America today.

I think I understand where you and Bryan are coming from, Brent, and I
must say that I have agreed with the last post from each of you... and
that sort of scares me. :-)

I wonder, though, about this concept that society is crumbling around us,
and wonder if each generation hasn't thought the same thing when
comparing itself with the previous generation. The past has a tendency to
look rosier than it actually was.

In the middle of last month you posted something from Cal Thomas saying
we now have a "post-Christian culture". That "the majority no longer
accepts the principles from the Old and New Testaments that once
undergirded law, government, human relationships and social policy. To
appeal to this majority with the language and values of the past is to
invite ridicule." I have spent considerable time thinking about Cal's
statement and I have decided that I disagree. The reason is that I can't
quite pinpoint when the "Christian culture" was suppose to be
flourishing.

It couldn't have been while we kept people in slavery so it couldn't have
existed up through the mid-1860's. In the mid-1800's people spoke a lot
about God, but sent their sons into battle for very political reasons.
After the Civil War, the South instituted Jim Crow laws and segregated
facilities so this culture couldn't have existed in the south. In the
west we started an all out campaign to kill the Indians and steal their
land, so it couldn't have existed in the west. In the north the newly
arriving immigrants faced discrimination of their own, as well as
sweat-shop conditions in the textile mills.

And so forth and so on. We can pick any time and find both good things
and bad things about it. We may look back at the writings of Thomas
Jefferson, see his references to God, and think that surely was a
Christian Culture. We prefer not to remember that this man owned slaves,
had a mistress, and who knows what else. We look fondly on the Founding
Fathers, and try to forget that the U.S. Capital was built with slave
labor.

I agree that society is changing. Societies seem to be continually
changing. During the changes some people seem to pine for a past that
may not to have actually ever existed. Frankly, I don't see our society
as a "post-Christian" society, but rather as a "pre-Christian" society.
We have a lot of work still to do building the Kingdom. If we get about
it today (now!) we still have a chance. Let's not spend so much time
looking backwards. The Kingdom is in front of us.

Jim McIntosh, SFO (jim@american.edu)
The American University
Washington DC 20016-8019 USA
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