From: nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos)
Subject: Re: Only God Can Help Us!
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date: 31 Aug 92 21:34:13 GMT

In <1992Aug26.112909.25187@rigel.econ.uga.edu> mills@uga.edu (Kathi Mills) writes:

>> Cameron Kaszas

>>it is inconceivable TO ME that it is God's will for any abortion 
>>to ever take place. 

>Hmmm.  So, although god is all-knowing and all-powerful, and although
>god had a plan for the world when it created it, and although god
>"knew us before we were born," and its eye is even on the sparrow,
>something CAN happen that is NOT god's will.  And, of course, that
>just happens to be a procedure that saves the lives of thousands of
>women in this country alone,

Not per year, it does not.  You have to go back to the 1940's before
penicillin to have more than 1,000 women dying of abortion--and even
then it was death from spontaneous and induced abortion and "abortion
from unknown causes" lumped together.

>  It also saves millions of childre
>from short, miserable lives due to severe physical defects, poverty,
>crime, drugs, and child abuse.

If so, why have all these problems (except maybe the first) gotten
worse since 1973?

>>Now, my problem.  My closest friends, and even my wife, don't like
>>my "new" views on this matter.   Since I deeply respect these people,
>>and we stand side by side on most other matters, I am worried that
>>I have somehow been led astray since stumbling onto this network,
>>and being exposed to more secular/liberal/radical thought?  

Not to worry. Just find out who the pro-lifers are and judge
for yourself whether we or the pro-choicers are more rational.

>Yeah, you're being corrupted by rational people.  We have this nasty
>tendency to confuse the issues with facts.  You're welcome to join
>the club - sounds like you may be on your way already.

>>Can any of you pro-life Christians give me some reasons why I
>>should be politically pro-life?  

I'm not sure I fit your description, but _Aborted Women, Silent
No More_ is a good place to start.  If you send me your mailing
address, I'll send you a copy of the explosive foreword by
NancyJo Mann, founder of WEBA (Women Exploited By Abortion).

That goes for the first five pro-choicers and the first-five
pro-lifers who make this request.  If you don't want to make
your address known in general, "r" this post, or e-mail to:

nyikos@math.scarolina.edu

Or mail to Peter Nyikos
	   Dept. of Mathematics
	   University of South Carolina
	   Columbia, SC 29208

I've made this offer earlier, and there are still unclaimed copies
on both sides of the fence.

>Top Ten Reasons For Members of A Male-Dominated, Male-Worshipping
>Religion to Oppose Abortion

>1.  Abortion frees women from getting married because of pregnancy and
>    thus deprives men of an easy way to capture domestic servants.

1*. Abortion frees men from having to get married, or as they used to
say, "Do the right thing by the girl you got pregnant."  

>2.  Abortion allows many women to complete their college education,
>    and thus realize that they don't have to be men's domestic servants.

That assumes they don't get injured or so emotionally scarred by the
abortion that they can keep their mind on their studies.

>3.  Abortion allows many women to keep and move up in their careers,
>    thus freeing them from the necessity of relying on a man for money.

Same assumption, and by the way, what percentage of abortions are done
on career women?  These are the women who can afford to fly to Sweden, 
or wherever, to get an abortion that is a lot safer than what you can
count on in the USA.  Most abortions are done on poor women, that's why
you hear so much pro-choice propaganda about the enormous burdern on
the taxpayers that's supposed to result from abortion being illegalized.

>4.  Abortion provides sexually active women with total control over
>    their reproductive destinies.

Unless the abortion makes them sterile.

>5.  Abortion provides rape victims with a way of escaping the additional
>    torture of carrying her rapist's child to term.

While suffering the torture of an abortion, which is like a second rape
(or a third one if she goes through some rape protocols), only it goes
beyond the vagina, into the uterus.  [Fact: some Planned Parenthood
clinics do not use anesthesia.]

>6.  Abortion saves wome's lives.           

The ones that do are not illegal, not even according to Guam law.

>7.  Abortion ofte saves women's mental health.

Abortion often destroys women's mental health.

>8.  Abortion enables women to live free, independent lives, to have more
>    of an opportunity to get involved with politics and move up the
>    corporate ladder, evetually opening doors for other women and
>    ultimately destroying men's straglehold on the money and power in
>    this country.

Contraception and natural family planning do it better.


>If you really want to be effective, just round up all the women and
>put them in a concetratio camp.  They can be concentrating on being
>the walking incubators they really are.  Then you could make sure that
>ot only does a woman not have any chance of getting an abortion, but
>also she is mated with until she meets her rightful biological destiny,
>and o pesky arguments about "not being in the mood."  I'm sure you
>could read _The Handmaid's Tale_ for ideas.

You can also read my criticism of its assumptions
 along the "Mirror for Adrienne
Regard's NO OTHER HUMAN..." thread.

Newsgroups: talk.abortion