HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "Michael Squires" <mikes@moose.cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Paying the Pennsic Autocrat
Summary: short life of a deputy autocrat 
Keywords: Pennsic autocrat
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 02:18:25 -0500

In article <1992Sep10.202541.22018@watson.ibm.com> mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman) writes:
>
>When someone suggests paying the Pennsic autocrat, my immediate reaction is
>to ask why the autocrat is working so hard.  

First, my experience was seven years ago, and things have changed a lot.

However:  before the beginning of the event the major things that the
autocrat's staff worked on was the setup of the camps, parking, etc., trying
to get the pieces all into shape.  Our experience was that we had to be
in the field to fix the problems before they got too large to be handled
without causing a lot of irritation, thus radios and carts.  We also had
a very small staff in comparison to later wars.

Once the event was set up there was a never-ending process of trying to
nail the time and setup for each event during the day.  In some cases the
schedule was simply impossible and had to be changed, such as the time when
we rescheduled the Bridge Battle first and then told the Crowns about it
later - the Coopers had to have an answer in minutes, and the royalty was
all out in the woods fighting.  The logistics were pretty crazy.

Then you have wars like Pennsic XVIII, where we spent months planning things
and then had the whole thing fall apart because none of us were civil
engineers and didn't realize that the railway roadbed was not only not stable,
it was really a mudhole covered with a thin layer of dry dirt.  The only
fun thing I remember from that war was getting people out with live steel
to trim some shrubs to a uniform height.

Another problem is that in some wars the people who are formally responsible
for doing major jobs don't do them, and someone else, usually on the
autocrats staff, has to take over.  

Overall, the more planning, advance work, and delegation the less work one
should have to do.  This does not always work (see Pennsic XVIII above, and
any number of others).

Another problem is that volunteer rates have been going down over the years,
so the proportion of people working is now less than it was ten years ago.  
You also see that for MidRealm fighters; at 8 2 out of 3 were there, now its
down to 1 out of 3.

Then there are the really fun emergencies, such as being awakened out of a
sound sleep by someone crying in the dark that someone has just drowned and
she needs a doctor immediately (the person recovered, but I've never been
more scared).

I'm sure that having some experienced help (military civil administrators?
rock concert promoters? ren fair operators?) would help.

-- 

Mike Squires (mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu)     812 855 3974 (w) 812 333 6564 (h)
mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu          546 N Park Ridge Rd., Bloomington, IN 47408
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: sommerfeld@apollo.hp.com (Bill Sommerfeld)
Subject: Re: Paying the Pennsic Autocrat
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:32:56 GMT
	<BuBnDG.2Iz@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>
	<1992Sep9.201222.3601@access.digex.com> <2465@tymix.Tymnet.COM>
	<1992Sep10.202541.22018@watson.ibm.com>
Organization: Hewlett Packard

In article <1992Sep10.202541.22018@watson.ibm.com> mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman) writes:

   This isn't intended as any kind of criticism: I'm honestly baffled.  I
   mean, the mayor of a small _city_ doesn't work that hard!!  Admittedly, our
   organization problems are not the same as the mayor's, but they surely
   aren't as large.  

For the most part, administrators get involved when things *change*,
not when they stay the same.

How many small cities have 8000 people and 200 businesses move in or
out over the course of a week?  The only case I can think of involves
colleges.. and orientation week at MIT requires a comparable amount of
hard work to run.

						- Bill

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: sjvn@access.digex.com (Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols)
Subject: Re: parking//diesel pests
Organization: Express Access Public Access UNIX, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 22:11:54 GMT

> I was told that certain women camping near the road traditionally 
> would take theiir shirts off when trunks honked for them

Sounds like a SCA urban legend to me.  Anyone with trucker friends
who can find the real answer?  

Alexis Stephanovich Monomach
(Who camps on Tu-Chux hill and is very tried of being woke up at 4
in the morning.)

-- 
Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols
sjvn@access.digex.com
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: consort gender
Date: 12 Sep 92 00:40:30 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman):
>We choose.  We re-create the parts of medieval history which appeal to us.  
>We add modern elements as necessary to ensure our enjoyment of the game.  
>For example, we allow women to fight.  Yes, there are handful of examples 
>of female fighters in medieval times, but that's hardly the point...

Very good.  The inauthenticity of same-sex consorts, no examples of which
we can identify from period, is not markedly greater than that of female
fighters, whose period examples are few and exceptional.  Period
violations of period norms make a poor basis for recreation.  (For example,
I can't claim that a musical concoction is in period style just because
I can identify one piece from fourteenth-century France in which the rules
were broken in the same way.)  If we part from period norms, it is because
they conflict with modern norms, or with pleasure we take in the Society.

>Thom's question is simply whether the romantic image of a man and woman as 
>the royal couple is so important as to override the obvious discomfort it 
>causes some of our members.

Discomfort, on both sides, is a key issue.  It is clear from the postings
that there are many people in the Society (and it is unjust to accuse them
of bigotry) for whom a same-sex consort on the throne would mean that the
game was less enjoyable, for various reasons.  The implicit argument on
the one side is that people should be willing to accept discomfort in
support of principle.  The implicit argument on the other is that the
principle by which the Society operates is one of respecting each others'
choices, not one of being enlisted to share in them or fight for them.

>The question here is not whether or not same-sex consorts are
>medieval, but who we want to choose to discomfort.  It is a tough choice;
>turning it into dogma won't solve it.

Arval has pared the problem down to its bones.  It's not a debate with
homophobia ranged on one side and inauthenticity ranged on the other.
The question is whether this issue is closer to that of female fighters
-- where modern sensibilities demand that women be allowed to fight, and
those who feel uncomfortable with the idea can accept it or stay home --
or to that of religion -- where the ruling is that members can make any
choice they wish -- but can't bring that choice into an official context.

-----
Dani of the Seven Wells

dani@netcom.com

   God helpe the man so wrapt in Errours endless traine  -- Edmund Spenser
From: kevin@isi.COM (Keradwc an Cai)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Town Battle at the War
Date: 9 Sep 92 23:24:05 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Carolus Mediocris of An Tir wrote:

> I'd like to see marshalls armour for war: a helm, dog collar, and
> coat of plates, and half decent knees. Put them in belted
> overtunics and breaches of some awful fluorescent colour, and
> give them standardised staves.

I don't know about all marshals, but (I asked 2 of my friends via
e-mail) I don't many of them would be overjoyed to get put into
some oop ugly outfit -- and wouldn't marshal. I do know I wouldn't.

> who nearly caught a marshal
> in the squires, but the rotten
> bugger rhinoed!!!

Some of us don't consider marshal hunting to be particularly funny.

Keradwc
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 | Keradwc an Cai     |    Sometimes a Marshal   |  In the Mists of the West |
 |--------------------|--------------------------|---------------------------|
 | Kevin Connery      | Quality must be designed |   Speaking FROM, not FOR: |
 |                    | into software; it cannot |   Integrated Systems, Inc |
 | kconnery@isi.com   | be patched on afterwards |           Santa Clara, CA |
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: History vs. dreams (Was: consort gender)
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:09:33 GMT

In article <12197@optilink.UUCP> samlb@optilink.UUCP (Sam Bassett) writes:
>the "Elves, Gnomes, and Little Men's Science Fiction & Chowder Society"
>(I think the name was -- the "Little Men's" part is accurate).

Historical note (they still exist, by the way)--

Elves, Gnomes & Little Mens Science Fiction, Chowder & Marching
Society.

They give out (or used to) the annual Invisible Little Man award.
It's a statue of an invisible little man (made of the finest invisible
brass), standing oon a pedestal with a plaque on the front of the
pedestal.  (You can see his footprints on the top of the pedestal.)

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Sitting on the fence (was Re: Pentacles/Consorts)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 19:00:45 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!  Hal wrote:

> So long as the SCA maintains it's not-for-profit status, I think it is
> at least semi-public in nature.  If we want to be private, we should
> change the tax status of the corporation.

If you are talking about our legal position (as opposed to our moral
position), and if you are suggesting that our not-for-profit status
requires us to refrain from religious discrimination and the like, then you
are manifestly incorrect: The Catholic Church is a not-for-profit
organization, which discriminates against homosexuals and other religions.
The Aryan Nation is a not-for-profit organization which discriminates
against almost everybody.  Private organzations which accept money from the
government in some capacities have been required to obey federal
anti-discrimination laws (e.g. universities), but tax-exempt status does
not imply such legal requirements.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: consort gender
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 92 10:03:56 EDT
Organization: Ailanthus Project

zebee@ucs.adelaide.edu.au (Zebee Johnstone) writes:

> Arval wrote:
>
> >The requirement for a mixed sex ruling couple is simply a reflection of our
> >focus on the ideals of courtly love: An chivalrous warrior fights for the
> >glory of his lady/her lord.  One's lady or lord is one's inspiration;
> >sleeping arrangements have nothing whatsoever to do with the matter and are
> >nobody's business but your own.  It is a social convention, based on the
> >social conventions of the period we re-create.
>
> I always wondered what to do about the "inspiration" problem.  I'm not
> in a "relationship" same sx or otherwise, so if I wanted to compete
> in Coronet, what do I do to avoid doing violence to this concept - a concept
> I enjoy *because* it is so high medieval?
>
>
> I don't want to just wander up to someone and say "Hey, can I fight
> for you in Coronet".  If I win the damn thing I want to be able to
> crown the person who *inspired* me to win, the person I really
> *wanted* to put on the throne.
>

precisely.  this statement of purpose is in truth much more wounding than pure
fear and disgust.  lord and ladies, this peasant knows that there are some who
find my attatchment to my lady odd and unnatural.  but to imply that i could
derive more inspiration from ANY man, to include Yng my father, than my lady
whose hands weave the strands of fate, whose eyes hold worlds ripe for
discovery!  that is a blasphemy, to borrow a term from the romans.  no man
inspires me.  to say that i must pretend because you, who are the powers that
be, say i must is one thing.  i am but a poor peasant woman.  if the law of the
land is unjust, it is still the law and i must follow it.  but to expect that i
exp[erience this feeling, or to even imply that my love inspires me less than a
consort chosen for concvenience sake, is insulting.  my lady is my sun, my
moon, my earth, my sea.  SHE inspires me to become as great as i may be, and to
win the look of pride in her eyes i would take on worlds.

but my lady takes no joy in warfare.  and in truth passes of arms disgust her.
so in whose honor and by whose inspiration i fight is moot.  by the inspiration
of my lady, i REFRAIN from fighting.

                                        -Walburga Ingsdottir

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                    ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
 I wish her insight to battle love's blindness            ________
 Strength from the milk of human kindness         Silence \      / Action
 A safe place for all the pieces that scattered      =     \    /    =
 Learn to pretend there's more than love           Death    \  /    Life
                                  that matters               \/
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: davel@news.arc.nasa.gov (Dave Liebreich)
Subject: Re: A thought about Rialto
Summary: humor
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 17:53:34 GMT

Greetings unto the (limited) Rialto, from David Waxthorn.

In article <12148@optilink.UUCP> samlb@optilink.UUCP (Sam Bassett) writes:
>	Despite the recent rash of people flicking lit matches at each
>other over the net here, I still prefer an open, unmoderated forum.
>

You know, since the mail-to-newgroup gateway at MIT went down (thus
limiting the content of rec.org.sca to those articles posted to it
directly), it's been fairly peaceful here.

Hmmmm . . . 

=========================================================================
David Waxthorn                                  David Liebreich
Principality of the Mists                       NASA Ames Research Center
Laurel Kingdom of the West                      Moffett Field, CA

 "The opinions expressed above are not necessarily those of my liege-lord"
                           doo dah doo dah
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Black Armor (was Re: safety for marshals (was: Re: Town Battle ) )
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 15:42:54 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Dagonell wrote:

> Around here, most of the fighters who wear black are either members of
> House Elandris or wish they were.  I don't think the founder, _Baroness_
> Morgan Elandris has testosterone poisoning. ;-) ;-) ;-)

Ooooh, I won't touch that line!!

Aryk quoted:

> Her eyes they sparkled like rivets.
> She held a long spear in her hand.
> And her name it was Morgan Elandris,
> Commanding the black leather band.
> 
> Who wrote that anyway, Dagonell?

I believe it was Alaric Bowbreaker.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: Edward Zifran of Gendy (was Re: Pennsic Land Allotment)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 14:14:32 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <1992Sep8.194158.29049@techbook.com> douglas@techbook.com (Douglas) writes:
>amy@lloyd.Camex.COM (Amy Lindsay) writes:
>>OLD (not necessarily physically) friends at Pennsic who said at one time
>>there had been a "the bastard" some where between the "Edward" and the
>>"Gendy" but he got pulled away (by Edward) before he could explain further.

>When he taught me fighting (about ten years ago) he was "Viscount Sir
>Edward Zifran, the Bastard Son of Gendy" and proud of it.

     I got it as "Sir Edward Ziphram of Gendy, 
     the Bloody Bastard of An Tir"...but it was
     from a bard, and may have been done that
     way for rythymic purposes. Everyone knew
     he was talking about "fast eddie", who is
     to this day a legend in An Tir.
      
>that was long ago and far away.  Does he still wear those hideous green
>sneakers?  I know he's given up the leather helm, it's now an A&S
>exhibit in Three Mountains...

     Until I read your post, I had dismissed the famous 
     leathern helm as apocryphal. I *must* see this thing.
     Next time i come to Three Mountains, can I view the
     relic? ;-)

Carolus Mediocris
Montengarde An Tir
Hero-ing done on the cheap
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: robdean@access.digex.com (Rob Dean)
Subject: Re: Wicca and the SCA
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 00:10:37 GMT

In article <716487667.F00001@ocitor.fidonet> Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim) writes:
> EO> does anybody know much about
> EO> Byzantine North Africa, just to name one possibility?
>
> Was Christian until the Vandals, then Arian except during the brief period
> when Justinian's generals were kicking their butts, then Muslim. You can
> decide for yourself whether this trend represents progress, or what....
>

Make that "Orthodox Christian" to be somewhat more accurate, although I recall
that there was a large sub-group of (oppressed) Donatist heretics (pardon my
non-PC terminology) who were not unfriendly to the Vandal take-over--one of the
reasons that they had a fairly easy time of it.

Rob Dean
From: salley@niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Black Armor (was Re: safety for marshals (was: Re: Town Battle ) )
Keywords: Songs, Morgan Elandris
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:55:12 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

I wrote: 
Around here, most of the fighters who wear black are either members of House
Elandris or wish they were.  I don't think the founder, _Baroness_ Morgan
Elandris has testosterone poisoning. ;-) ;-) ;-)
 
Aryk Nusbacher replied:
> To which I can only add these verses which I learned as a child:
> 
> Her eyes they sparkled like rivets.
> She held a long spear in her hand.
> And her name it was Morgan Elandris,
> Commanding the black leather band.
> 
> Who wrote that anyway, Dagonell?

The song is _Black Leather Band_ to the tune of _Black Velvet Band_ and was
written by Sir Aldric Bowbreaker of the High March, founding Baron Thescorre.
Unfortunately, I don't have it memorized and the songbook I have it in is
currently on loan.  When I get it back, I'll post it.

                                                       - Dagonell

SCA Persona : Lord Dagonell Collingwood of Emerald Lake, CSC, CK, CTr
Habitat	    : East Kingdom, AEthelmearc Principality, Rhydderich Hael Barony
Disclaimer  : A society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.
Internet    : salley@niktow.cs.canisius.edu
USnail-net  : David P. Salley, 136 Shepard Street, Buffalo, New York 14212-2029

	A bad day in the list still beats a good day in the office.  
                                                  -- Dagonell
From: carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Alexander of Kiev (mka Carl Alexander))
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: History vs. dreams
Date: 9 Sep 92 05:14:34 GMT
Organization: The Rialto

In article <wefCvKa00UjUA1uM5k@andrew.cmu.edu> grm+@andrew.cmu.edu (Gretchen Miller) writes:
>
>There is a late
>period case from Northern England where a man and a women were arrested
>for swindling folks out of money by claiming to be the King and Queen of
>the fairies.  Seems they claimed to make wishes come true if you gave
>them money....
 
I don't suppose you've got a cite for this, perchance?  Please?  I'd 
love to read the case.
 
Alexander of Kiev                       Carolingia, East

Carl Alexander                          Harvard Square, Cambridge, Mass.
carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bambi@visenix.uucp (Hilda(Bambi) Smith-Beattie)
Subject: Re: Same-sex consorts, homophobia, fun mavins, etc.
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 11:36:10 GMT

i realize that under the current system of 2 crowns
                                           2 sexes
it seems that the obvious breeders have the upper hand
but...
the fact is by having a man AND a woman on the throne 
there are options for EVERYone to find inspiring.....
a man a of dignity,a woman of stregth or 2 men who have
never had to sit throug a court high on asperin and
hotwater bottles...regardless of sexual orientation.
(should have been a comma) either sex would feel
"left out"of it all...
we are all in here with love and dignity
beatriz
mailing address as of tongiht
genie@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org
or
genie@p0.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org
703 471 5513
bambi smith beattie 
11525 hickory cluster
reston va
    22090
From: craig@think.COM (Craig Stanfill)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: History vs. dreams
Date: 8 Sep 92 17:15:15 GMT
Organization: The Internet


First, I will state that I believe the SCA is a place for re-creating the
Middle Ages, not Middle Earth or D&D. I am immensely fond of both Tolkien
and FRP gaming, but in my opinion these activities are contrary to the aims
of SCA and should not be part of SCA events.  If you have a different
opinion on these matters, I respect your opinion but, at the same time, am
inalterably opposed to it.

Having said this, I am writing on the topic of how to react to
inappropriate behavior in the SCA, specifically to people who are
re-creating their dream worlds at our events. I think that, in most cases,
the first response ought to be guidence rather than rudeness (which might
drive them away) or game playing (which might encourage them). In this
context, I think that ignoring a person is rude, and behaving as if the
offending person were mad is game playing; by reacting to their behavior in
an amusing fashion you are legitimizing them.

Taking the person aside to explain the goals of the society and the
importance of staying within the bounds of history at least gives us the
opportunity to win a convert rather than simply eliminating an annoyance.
That said, I think the best response to someone who _refuses_ to get the
message, having been told that his/her behavior is out of bounds, is to
simply ignore that person; few reasonable people will continue to show up
if they are continuously shunned. Of course, there will remain a few dweebs
who will insist on showing up as Elves, despite the fact that noone talks
to them.  I'm at a loss to understand what should be done under such
circumstances.

Of more concern is the occasional clique of Elves + Wizards who are
socially self-contained and, in fact, do not care that they are not
accepted by the rest of the society. Again, I'm at a loss to understand
what can be done in those cases.

Finally, I think that the most important thing is for each group to have a
strong sense of identity, of what is acceptable and what is not.  Social
norms and the social pressure which results when those norms are violated
are an integral part of any society. But please, remember that you were new
to this at one time, and correction is preferable to rejection.

- Boris Petrovitch
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca