HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: edsr!kjs@uunet.UU.NET (Kevin Sedota)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Rockchucker primer
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:44:46 GMT
Organization: EDS Research, Albuquerque, NM

When I got into reloading I bought on of those RCBS master reloading kits.
But on the advice of a friend I got a Lee hand primer. His concern was mainly
that the system on the RCBS was prone to ignighting the entire tube of primers
thus (PC ALERT !!!! ;-) ) causing serious negative impact on current reloading 
process. (read: it could really screw up your whole day.)

Well, sunday I was bored so I decided to try hooking up the primer mechanism
on the rockchucker. So now the questions:

1. Is the fear of the tube of primers exploding a serious one.
2. Assuming it is not is there a trick to using it. I can get it to work and
   I assume it's going to take a little practice to get comfortable with it
   but it seems to be prone to jamming. By jamming I mean when I first put
   the loaded tube in, the first few primers seem to not want to drop into
   the pocket on the primer cup cleanly. 
   Also somehow several of the primers seems to have been pressed into the
   primer pocket of the case sideways. You can't really see what is going on
   under the shell holder so I can only assume that the primer was not seated
   in the cup fully and it rubbed against something on the way in and tilted
   itself on it's side. (Of course it sould be the house gremlin !@%%$ )
3. If you are done priming cases and there are primers left in the tube how
   do you remove the tube without sending the primers all over the place.
   The coter pin hole is to far up the tube and anyway I don't really relish 
   the idea of jamming it in to a tube loaded with primers.

any clues, suggestions, words of wisdom, checks, cash 

 *****************************************************************************
* #include <std/disclaimers.h>      *                  ___                    *
* (load "/usr/lisp/denials.lsp")    *       / _/    / (       Kevin Sedota    *
* COPY CPYWRITE IN COPYLIB          *      /<      /   \                      *
* compile("/usr/prolog/excuses.pl").*     /  \  /_/  ___)       kjs@edsr      *
* %INCLUDE CAVEATS                  *                                         *
* Your milage may vary.             *                                         *
*          A world which requires disclaimers has too many lawyers.           *
 *****************************************************************************
From: C96@vm.urz.uni-heidelberg.de
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: French 8mm Lebel reloading
Date: 28 Jul 92 20:38:55 GMT
Organization: University of Heidelberg, Germany


 The subject says it: I would like to ask you for any information on
reloading the French 8mm x 50 R Lebel rifle ammo. The usual reloading
manuals available here didn't help me much.
   Additionally, I would really appreciate any experience comment on
this ammo's accuracy and ways to improve it. I own a French/Turkish
Berthier carbine (basically, a *full*stocked carbine version of the
1907/15 rifle, made by the Turkish Orman arsenal in 1948. Any literature
on this gun I was not able to find. Can anybody help me please?

Thank you a lot,
Alexander <c96@vm.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
From: sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Rifleman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Top Man Stoppers???
Date: 31 Jul 92 00:24:26 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <22595@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> burens@4ccvw101.scg.hac.com (Mark Burens) writes:
#
#
#I was just curious what some of the best man-stoppers are.
#Specifically, what calibers, grain of bullet per caliber,
#type of bullet. 

Federal 125-gr JHP in 357 Magnum.  

Stops with one shot 97% according to Evan Marshal.
From: cower@csli.stanford.edu (Richard Cower)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Olympic shooting events (on TV in Israel)
Date: 29 Jul 92 11:52:29 GMT
Organization: CSLI, Stanford University


Are the shooting events on tv in the states? I'm in Israel, and
today 5/29 we get treated to smallbore rifle and fire
pistol. I think I saw some postings that the shooting events
would not be broadcast in the states, it's too 

see ya...rich
From: lvc@cbvox1.att.com (Lawrence V Cipriani)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: H.R. 2922
Date: 30 Jul 92 21:47:27 GMT
Organization: Ideology Busters, Inc.

In article <9207282019.AA25006@gtephx.com> forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes:
#
#In article <1992Jul25.223403.27105@cbnews.cb.att.com>, lvc@cbvox1.att.com (Lawrence V Cipriani) writes:
#> The tax on 1000 rounds of 200 grain bullets would be nearly $21.50
#> for primary lead and nearly $10.75 on secondary lead.  Stock up now.
#
#How does one tell if bullets have primary or secondary lead?

The tax would be imposed on smelters of lead, who would pass their price
increases to their customers.
-- 
Larry Cipriani, att!cbvox1!lvc or lvc@cbvox1.att.com
"I just love the smell of gunpowder." -- Bugs Bunny
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Old Western Scrounger
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:36:34 GMT


Does anyone have the mailing address for the Old Western Scrounger.
I'm trying to place an order, but he didn't bother putting his
address on the order form.

Please E-mail. Thanks.



Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
From: eesnyder@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Eric E. Snyder)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Redding Phone Number (Part Orders)
Date: 25 Jul 92 13:11:50 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

I recently damaged the decapping pin (actually the rod that holds the pin)
on a Redding die and need to replace the part.  Does anyone have the phone
number for the Redding parts department? 

On a related note, what do people think of Redding vs. RCBS in terms of 
quality/value.  I plan to get a set of 9mm and .308 dies soon.  Does anyone
have strong opinions one what or another?

Thanks,

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
TTGATTGCTAAACACTGGGCGGCGAATCAGGGTTGGGATCTGAACAAAGACGGTCAGATTCAGTTCGTACTGCTG
Eric E. Snyder                            
Department of MCD Biology              ...making feet for childrens' shoes.
University of Colorado, Boulder   
Boulder, Colorado 80309-0347
LeuIleAlaLysHisTrpAlaAlaAsnGlnGlyTrpAspLeuAsnLysAspGlyGlnIleGlnPheValLeuLeu
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rats@ihlpm.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Webley .45
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:37:19 GMT

In <1992Jul23.155202.11914@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> Jim Heath states:

|# The M1912 Webley autoloader had an interesting feature in which you could
|# drop the magazine by a small amount, and be able to handload single
|# rounds through the top of the weapon; I don't recall if the weapon locked
|# back the slide after each round in this mode.

After I thought about this, I will state categorically that the M1912
slide DID lock back after each shot in this mode; the person whose M1912
I handled over 20 years ago had a broken slide lockup mechanism spring.

|I didn't realize they made an automatic.
 
I didn't realise this either, until my friend had saw an ad for a Webley
revolver, went to the guy's home, saw he had the M1912, and purchased
that one instead. Variations of the model included one with a shoulder
stock. The weapon has an almost vertical grip of amazing girth;
with my small hands at the time I could not properly hold the weapon
with the bore in parrallel with wrist. The very large grip safety also
is an impediment to proper gripping.

During WW 2, the British actually had some Colt M1911s manufactured
that were chambered for the .455 Webley autoloader round.

|# Oh, by the way, the U.S. bank robber, Jeffery Erickson, who got killed
|# attempting to escape in Chicago July 20, earlier used an Australian Arms
|# "SAP" 5.56mm pistol to assault a policeman in his patrol car by firing
|# through his windshield. The 5.56mm rounds penetrated through the officer's
|# soft body armor...

|Hmmm, WLS in Chicago keeps saying he shot himself.  Sounds like a
|cop/marine gone very bad.

The previous shooting using the SAP happened a bunch of months ago; when
he attempted to make his escape from the Federal building in Chicago,
he was engaged in a shootout with a cop, and gotten hit once with an
apparently fatal wound. He then turned his stolen snubnosed revolver
on himself.

|If the 5.56mm penetrated the policeman's vest, how come it didn't
|kill him?

[1] The 5.56mm rounds must have been significantly slowed and deformed
going through the windshield and body armor.

[2] The suburbs of Chicago are well served by numerous hospitals within
several minutes driving distances via ambulance. 

[3] May not have hit any vitals.
From: Ken_Ziolkowski@transarc.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: "Puff the Magic Dragon"
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:53:46 GMT



  If my memory is correct, the sequence was something
like this:

  AC-47  "Puff the Magic Dragon", later changed to "Spooky"
          for call sign reasons.

  AC-119 "Shadow", flown mostly by the VNAF

  AC-130 "Spectre". The last one I was one was equipped as
          follows (circa. 1975) moving rearward from the nose,
          all on the port side of the a/c:

          1 - 7.62mm minigun

          1 - 20mm minigun

          1 - 40mm Bofors cannon

          1 - 105mm (yes,a 105) short barrelled howitzer.

  The Spectre A/C also contained infra-red and radar sensors
for night work, which ws its preferred environment. They used
to fly them over the trail (Ho Chi Minh) at night and shoot up
truck convoys.

  The paint scheme was a flat dark grey primer w/ flat black
unit markings.

  Still flying. One was shot down is Desert Storm. Word has it
that the Spectre was supporting some Special Forces troops and
stayed out too long past daylight and was bagged by Iraqi AAA.

  An evil machine.

Ken
From: geff@iastate.edu (Geff Underwood)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: ammo calibers ?!
Date: 21 Jul 92 21:12:19 GMT
Organization: none for me, thanks, I'm trying to cut down

In article <1992Jul21.153018.14880@sol.UVic.CA> schow@sol.UVic.CA (Stirling Chow) writes:
#
#I was also
#wondering if someone could explain the measurements of the 30.06 Springfield.

As I understand it, that round was named after its .30 caliber bullet,
and the fact that it was designed in 1906.  Despite the names, the bullet
diameter is the same as in 7.62 NATO/.308 Winchester.

--
Geff Underwood
geff@iastate.edu
From: brock@dip.eecs.umich.edu (Timothy L. Brock)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: For Sale - Remington 11-87 Autoloader
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:36:01 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor


	    I have the following shotgun for sale.

			Remington 11-87 Autoloader Premier Grade
            	   
			175th Anniversary Model - 12 Guage 
     
                    	28" Vent Ribbed Barrel with 
				
				REMChokes(IC/MOD/FULL)-will handle 3"

		
	This gun is suitable for trap,skeet,sporting clays and hunting.

     	    I paid $560. for it in 1991 and will let it go for $400.
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rifle Bullet Seating Depth
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:26:47 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <9207200243.AA06767@panix.com> justice@panix.com (Michael Justice) writes:
#In article <58813@mimsy.umd.edu> you write:
##Others seat cannellured bullets so the crimp will be in the groove.  And some
##will seat the bullet out to where it contacts the lands.  Then some even seat
##the bullet long so it is pushed back several thousandths of an inch into the
##case by the origin of the rifling as the bolt is closed.
##
##Any comments, opinions, thoughts, etc., by readers?
#
#I don't know what's best, if that's what you are after -- but I do know (after
#today) that it does matter.
#
#I was reloading the other night, and decided on the spur of the moment to make
#a box of as-near-identical rounds as I could, to see how accurate they'd be.
#I put together twenty rounds, all with the same (to within .1 grain) amount of
#powder, and tried to make the depth the same -- but came out with two batches,
#ten at 2.250 COL, and ten at about 2.253-2.262.  On the spur of the second mo,
#I decided to make the second set consistent at 2.255, and to test the two sets
#against each other. :-)
#
#The second (longer) set did seriously better, even better than the ancient
#factory stuff I managed to find (I had one clip of ten rounds left, which is
#why I pulled out the reloading equipment to begin with :-).  The shorter set
#did significantly worse than the factory ammo.  I was quite surprised;  this
#was the first time my reloads beat factory ammunition.
#
#Quite fun.  As soon as I finish installing the bomb releases and missile
#ignition system in my radio-controlled plane ("King Kombat", designed in part
#by the guy who founded Lee Precision, oddly enough) I'll have to play with
#seating depth some more.
#
#			-- Michael.
#--
#Michael A. Justice |  NRA Life / ILA  | Need air support for your next coup
#justice@panix.com  | Registered Voter | attempt?  Write for a free quote!

First, it is important to note that seating the bullet against the lands
jumps the pressure of the load.  THIS SHOULD NOT BE DONE WITH HOT LOADS!

THe "ideal depth will vary with the load.  I use a micrometer seating die and 
test loads at variuos depths, once I have a load worth testing.  Most loads perform best from .010 to .025 inches from the lands.  The .22 to 6.5mm loads will
usually work better with bullets closer to the lands and larger will work better
out near the .025.  The book "The Ultimate in Rifle Accuracy" has very good text
on this and other "hi-brow" reloading techniques.

Bill Burge    burge@qdeck.com
:wq
From: jca@crash.cts.com (John C. Archambeau)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Shock-Buff System
Date: 22 Jul 92 11:41:09 GMT
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA

I am going to be purchasing a S&W 915 in the next couple of weeks.  What
I would like to know is if there's anything equivalent to the Wilson's
Shock-Buff System for S&W 9mm pistols (particular the 59xx models).   I
am going to be feeding the pistol a fairly steady diet of +P ammunition
and would like to add parts to the pistol that would extend the life of
the gun, especially since the S&W 915 is an alloy frame just like the
5904 it is based on.

I'd also appreciate any advice on any additional add-ons that one could
put on one's pistols for the express purpose of extending the service
life of the pistol.
--

     // JCA

 /*
 ** ARPA    : jadpc!thewall!jca@nosc.mil | 13 + 1 = 228... 
 ** INTERNET: jca@thewall.cts.com        |
 **           jca@thewall.uucp           |           SIG-Sauer P228...
 ** UUCP    : nosc!jadpc!thewall!jca     |
 */
From: dbetz@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Drew Betz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Self-loading shotguns, esp. Benelli's
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:53:42 GMT
Organization: SigSauer Fan Club

In article <3753@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> dcwst8+@pitt.edu (David C Winters) writes:
#Can anyone give approximate prices for either the M1 or the M3?

My current (as of 1 Jan 1992) HK price list quotes the Super Black Eagle
3.5" chamber at $1059.  This shotgun will chamber 3.5", 3", and 2.75"
shells without adjustment.

The M1s are generally listed at $749 (the leftie model is $849).

The M3s are somewhat more expensive, suggested retail $899.

In both cases ghost ring sights cost an extra $50.  Other options,
such as folding stocks, are available as add-ons.  The literature
states that M1 can operate with either 2.75" or 3" shells.  The M3
is probably the same way.

Drew 
--
drew betz : wj8k : dbetz@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu   
"Our campaign is the opposite of 'competence.'"
- Clinton aide Eli Segal, quoted in the 7/22/92 _Wall Street Journal_
From: kkrh@troi.cc.rochester.edu (K. Karcich)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Headspace guages
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:37:14 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <1992Jul22.232612.4875@megatek.uucp> megatek!cjp@uunet.UU.NET (Chris "Systems Stud" Pikus) writes:


#	I'm building an AR-15 and realize that to properly -- and more
#importantly, safely -- finish it, I will need to check the headspace
#of the barrel/bolt fit. So, I'm off to order the set of headspace guages.

#	I know what the function of the Go (too small) and No-go (too
#large) guages are for. What is the "field" guage for? Why would someone
#want one in addition/instead of the go and no-go?

#	Is the third one necessary?

	NO.

	Also, there is a way to do this without guages. Its safe and it works
because I've checked it against the gauging method. However, because its not
generally accepted and because some judgement is required, liability does
not permit me telling you how to do it. You can probably figure it out if
you think about what the gauge tells you and how cases are sized to fit a 
chamber.

regds,

Ken Karcich

# 
#-- 
#Christopher J. Pikus,        | "Yeah, there's such a fine line
#Megatek Corp., San Diego, CA | between stupid and clever."
#INTERNET: cjp@megatek.com    | 		-- "This is Spinal Tap"
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hollowpoints illegal in N.J. ?
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:53:02 GMT
Organization: gte

In article <Bruy0K.JG7@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v148rb5b@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (COLLIN MCCULLEY) writes:
# In article <18982@smoke.brl.mil>, gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes...
# # 
# #Since a responsible defensive user of a handgun would select hollow-point
# #bullets as the most appropriate choice for the intended purpose, one has
# #to wonder what the lay public's perception of hollow-points is.  I guess
# #I'm too familiar with weapons technology to grasp what the public perception
# #is -- could somebody who's sure of it please summarize what the "man on the
# #street" thinks about hollow-point rounds?  Apparently they have a bad rep..
# 
# 	As someone new to firearms, though not to firearms political 
# discussions, my impression of hollowpoints as gathered, no doubt, from numerous
# sources and recorded in my subconscious is as follows:  When I hear the word
# "hollowpoints" my mind automatically brings up the phrase "lots of damage to
# the person being shot".  I've no idea if this is correct, its just the
# impression that combinations of movies, newsreports, and discussions have
# given me.
# 

That's about right: a hollowpoint is designed to expand more on impact and
make a wider wound channel (bigger hole).  It is more likely to kill the
person hit and less likely to go clean through the person and hit someone
else.

I guess NJ legislators don't want women killing rapists:
maybe some of them are related to Senator Kennedy (we all know 
why he doesn't want a woman to be able to defend herself, don't we)..
     [follow up on the last paragraph to t.p.g.]



-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda
From: chris@MorningStar.Com (Chris Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Question for single-action fans
Date: 31 Jul 92 00:24:28 GMT
Organization: Morning Star Technologies

In article <1992Jul29.224008.24781@CS.ORST.EDU> preddy@physics.orst.edu writes:
#I have a question for single-action revolver fanatics:
#
#I am thinking of trading my Blackhawk .357 in for the Super B
#.44 magnum.  I've gotten quite good with it over the years in
#the sense of being able to pop off rounds quickly and fairly 
#accurately, but lately my concerns have been more toward personal
#defense.  Would it be foolish to give up my ability to handle 
#the .375 for the sake up the more lethal .44?  Or is upgrading 
#to the .44 mag beating an already dead horse? (no pun intended)

First off, I would personally not choose a SA revolver as a self-
defense weapon. 

I have a Super Blackhawk .44 Mag with an ~11" barrel.  The gun is 
somewhat but not overly heavy. ( I find it easier to hold on target
than my Desert Eagle .44) Recovery time between shots is surprisingly
short, relatively speaking, due to the excessively long barrel.
The gun is quite accurate, and overall a pleasure to shoot.


Chris Miller
From: damiel@netcom.com (Paul Theodoropoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm subsonic ammo
Date: 24 Jul 92 03:18:57 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In <9207231207.aa22061@claudius.pica.army.mil> erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:
#Sorry I don't have the issue on hand Paul, but from memory I recall
#Sanow saying that based on Marshall's stats the only 9mm loads worse
#than the 147 gr standard load were 115 and 124 gr FMJ. +P 147 gr
#is better I understand, but I don't know if it's still sunsonic. 

#Marshall's empirical statistics may be flawed, but what else is there?

well, that's just it - relying upon statistics alone just doesn't
cut it. Sanow is fond of pointing out the disastrous 1986 FBI miami
SWAT debacle where there was a "_single_ failure of a [9mm 115g
Silvertip] to penetrate deeply enough" [emphasis his], and how this has
been used to"scapegoat" that round. Then he turns around and indicts
the 147g subs on the basis of just a couple of instances of overpenetration.

There are two means of determining the effectiveness of a round - 
empirical studies using ordnance gelatin, and fully documented police
(and civilian) shooting incident autopsy data.

The 115g rounds have a preponderance of data showing high reliability,
*because that is what has been used in the preponderance of shootings*.
The 147g subs have been used not nearly in as many instances, so there
is no way yet to build a reliable database of "street" utility.

but there is ballistic gelatin data, which suggest that the 147g sub
is a highly effective round, and as its use becomes more widespread,
field data will show that to be valid. but to compare the effectiveness
of the two rounds based upon the number of affirmative examples 
available for each is just not rigorous science.




-- 
paul theodoropoulos    hooools@well.sf.ca.us      damiel@netcom.COM
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: quiet rounds
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:26:49 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <Bron4u.21r@newcastle.ac.uk> J.M.Spencer@newcastle.ac.uk (Jonathan Spencer) writes:
#barker@rigel.cs.pdx.edu (James Barker) writes:
#
##Does anyone know if there is a round quieter than .22LR? About 5 years ago
##at a range I was at, a guy was shooting a rifle that made VERY little noise
##(in fact, the noise it made was more like a "zing"). The casings were
##VERY small - so small in fact that I wondered at first what they were.
##Yet, the projectile was either big enough, or fast enough, where at 50
##yards, the guy was shooting small branches off trees behind his target
##(he was trying to zero in a scope he had bought).
#
#You're describing subsonic .22LR being fired through a sound moderator.
#Subsonics alone are quiet enough, but when used with a moderator, the
#loudest sound is me working the bolt.
#
#-- Jonathan
#
#Mail  : Computing Lab., University of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, NE1 7RU, England
#ARPA  : J.M.Spencer%newcastle.ac.uk@cs.ucl.ac.uk
#JANET : J.M.Spencer@newcastle.ac.uk
#UUCP  : !uknet!newcastle.ac.uk!J.M.Spencer            Phone : +91 222 8229

Or this is the description of the .22CB.  It is a VERY short rimfire that
is suitable for some rifles.  Slower? than sub-sonic .22lr - you can almost
walk them to the target.  For guns that are chambered in .22lr, it is best to 
get .22CB long.  They are made by CCI and have the ballistics of a .22CB in a 
.22LR size case.  From my 14" Contender barrel, they are almost silent.

Bill Burge	burge@qdeck.com