HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ralph@laas.fr (Ralph P. Sobek)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Subject: Re: Tape drive for ATARI ST
Date: 3 Sep 92 10:40:44 GMT
	<YecxQym00awMEOQV5U@andrew.cmu.edu>
Followup-To: comp.sys.atari.st
Organization: LAAS-CNRS France
In-reply-to: sm86+@andrew.cmu.edu's message of 1 Sep 92 20:49:02 GMT

I *really* don't want to start a flame war but I must disagree with
what 
>>>>> On 1 Sep 92 20:49:02 GMT, sm86+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stefan Monnier) said:

SM> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.atari.st.tech: 1-Sep-92 Tape drive for
SM> ATARI ST Roger-Hunen@medtronic.CO (457)

> Please respond by E-mail as I usually don't read this group.

SM> Once again: if you don't read this group, don't ask questions in it:
SM> it is not just a hot-line: it is a conference !

It depends upon the question, doesn't it?  A FAQ-like question should
normally *not* followed-up unless it happens repeatedly.  The only
gaffe that I see in Roger's posting was that he did not offer to
summarize in case others might be interested.

SM> If you think it is worth asking a question, then it is worth reading 
SM> it sometimes (cause this way you may have an answer for someone else's
SM> problem)

The person must have been reading some; otherwise he never would have
posted to this newsgroup.  And if one hasn't read a newsgroup in
awhile then either all the interesting messages have expired and/or
there are 500 some messages waiting to be read.

SM> And by the way: never only respond by email, as someone else may
SM> be interested. (That's the case for me on that question)

True, it is an interesting question (I wish my HD was big enough to
require a tape backup ;-( ), but if one is not *that* familiar with
this newsgroup, then one would have difficulty in judging the
importance.

Discussions may go one both publicly (news) and/or privately (e-mail).
I have no qualms with either.  By the way, your followup (like mine)
lacks technical content.  That's why I redirected followups to
comp.sys.atari.st!

--
Ralph P. Sobek			  Disclaimer: The above ruminations are my own.
Ralph.Sobek@laas.fr			   Addresses are ordered by importance.
ralph@laas.fr						If all else fails, try:
ralph@laas.uucp, or ...!uunet!laas!ralph	      sobek@eclair.Berkeley.EDU
Phone: (+33-)61-33-62-66  FAX-1: (+33-)61-33-64-55  FAX-2: (+33-)61-55-35-77
===============================================================================
Got a Mega 4 ST. Wish it was a Mega STe? :-|  Do I *really* want a Falcon/Next?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech,comp.sys.atari.st
From: healy@nosc.mil (Mike Healy)
Subject: Re: Zmodem 1.62 (J. Bammi version) compiling problems.
Organization: Naval Ocean Systems Center, San Diego
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 20:02:54 GMT


If you have your dependencies set up correctly, touching your .c files
so that they have a more recent date ought to generate a recompile by
make. You can always remove your .o files and then make has to recompile
them.

Makefiles are ugly beasts to hack (I'm thinking UNIX and VME systems
mostly) but once you get it set up, make sure makes life easier.

Mike

healy@cod.nosc.mil

Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
From: rosenkra@convex.com (William Rosenkranz)
Subject: downloads with Uniterm (kermit)
Summary: slower down than up
Keywords: uniterm kermit V.42 modem transfer speed
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1992 09:31:09 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.


i am using uniterm 2.0e on a mega ST4 (TOS 1.2) with a 9600 baud modem
(AMT STAR 9642e).

downloading file with kermit protocol from a unix system is about 4-5x
slower than uploading. i am using 1000 byte packets on both ends for
both send and recv. why the big difference? is there any way to "fix"
this (i am using default buffer sizes in uniterm). uploading appears
to be about 3-4x faster than uploading at 2400 baud. i think this is
a V.42bis modem (i am using the factory defaults which i think is AT\N6,
ie V.42 with fallback to MNP with fallback to normal, and AT\Q3, ie
RTS/CTS). i think i am using C-Kermit 4E70 on the unix side. the serial
line is the phone company.

thanx

-bill
-- 
Bill Rosenkranz            |UUCP: {uunet,texsun}!convex!rosenkra
Convex Computer Corp.      |ARPA: rosenkra@convex.com
From: eker@loria.crin.fr (Steven Eker)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Subject: Re: DSP in the Falcon
Date: 31 Aug 92 16:23:52 GMT
Organization: CRIN (CNRS) Nancy - INRIA Lorraine

Well the best thing about a 56001 is that it has a hardware multipler which can
do a multiply & add step in 1 instruction cycle (= 2 clock cycles).
This is much faster than your typical microprocessor and in fact the 56001
does shifting via multiplication rather than the other way arround.
Other goodies:
	3 memory areas (1 program, 2 data) which can be simultaneosly accessed.
	With most instructions you get 1 or 2 move instructions free.
	Fancy adressing modes for fast circular queues, FFTs etc
	Fast interupts
	Hardware looping

Things which the 56001 should be useful for include software sound synthesis
& matrix*vector multiplcation (the basis of 3D vector games).

If the DSP DMA is implemented right (does anyone have a programmer eye view of
this yet?) is should be possible to use it as an extremely fast graphics
processor for polygons/phong shading/texture mapping (I wonder if anyone
will bother to write an "Ultima Underworld" type game for the Falcon?).
I worry about this though - the DSP is 24 bits and the 68030 is 32 bits
so there's plenty of room for Atari to screw up...

Steven
From: warwick@cs.uq.oz.au (Warwick Allison)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Subject: Re: Sprite code (Re: Second&last time: Hacking Contest)
Date: 27 Aug 92 04:08:16 GMT
Reply-To: warwick@cs.uq.oz.au

>|> Hardly useful for anything but UNMASKED single-bitplane graphics, which 

>Actually I said or.w d0,(a0) _type_ instructions. By this I also mean
>and.w d0,(a0), eor.w d0,(a0) ... The code does proper masking.

I don't believe it is possible to implement:

	move.l	(a0),d0
	and.l	d1,d0
	or.l	d2,d0
	move.l	d0,(a0)

more efficiently without the use of the d0 temporary.  Certainly it won't
be more efficient on anything with a cache or a fast CPU (relative to bus).

>|> 	orl   #....,(a0)     (3 words)
>|> 	addl  d0,a0          (1 word)

>even better:
>	or.l	#...,(a0)
>	or.l	#...,80(a0)
>        or.l	#...,160(a0)
>	  :	  :
>saving 4cy/long word.

And losing the ability to work on non-ST-low resolutions (eg. TT-medium,
Falcon 640xHx16).

>|> (Of course, this is only acceptable for HACK CONTESTS.  Anyone who seriously
>|> considers this a "programming technique" is a beauxault)
>                                                 ^^^^^^^^^ a what?

                                                  a bozo, pardon my French :-)
--
Warwick
--
  _-_|\      warwick@cs.uq.oz.au            /Disclaimer:
 /     * <-- Computer Science Department,  /  
 \_.-._/     University of Queensland,    /      void (if removed)
      v      Brisbane, Australia.        /  
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
From: sheppard_r@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Subject: Re: 24 pin screen dumps
Reply-To: sheppard_r@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Organization: Wellington City Council, Wgtn, NZ
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 10:07:06 GMT

>
>The Canon BJ10ex has been touted here, and it _is_ a nice printer.  However,
>one must be careful of overzealous claims made by manufacturers and enthusiastic
>users.  The Canon's claimed 360x360 dpi resolution really ain't so as the dots
>are staggered (such as they are on 24-pin dot matrix printers).  You still end
>up with an effective 300dpi, mind you, but better than a 300dpi laser?  Not.
>
>The Hewlett Packard DeskJet 500 (and it's color sibling, the DJ500C) are more
>widely in use than the BJ, due in part to the PC and Mac versions available.
>Numerous font and emulator cartridges are available as well as ink refill kits
>(black or in colors) which lower overall cost of printing.  The HP DJ500 is
>larger than the Canon BJ, but equally quiet and reliable.
>
>All inkjet printers are slow, but only in comparison to a true laser.  If you
>NEED to print on multi-part forms, get the 24-pin.  But otherwise, jump for one
>of these two inkjets if you cannot afford a true laser printer. 
>
>In the end, "You pays yer money and you takes yer choice."
>___________________________ John "HUTCH" Hutchinson _________________________
>_________________ Fair Dinkum Technologies     Member - IAAD  _______________
>________________ "No worries, mate... it's from Fair Dinkum!" _______________
>____________ email: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov   GEnie: FAIR-DINKUM _____________

Well Computer Shopper the UK version some months back, had a good article
and reviews of a range of printers, but did point out one big problem with
Ink-Jet Printers that they are only good for out line art, they have no
grey scales..

The one printer at the low end that did was the Oki 400 Lazer Led printer,
this was very good for grey scales and in the print out of the pictures
in the review, as to the samples shown for the Ink-Jet ones.. 


Roger...........              sheppard_r@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
From: seimet@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Uwe Seimet)
Subject: Re: DSP in the Falcon
Organization: University of Kaiserslautern, Germany
Distribution: eunet
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 08:48:37 GMT

hrs@aber.ac.uk (Herbert Martin Sauro) writes:

>I assume that the 56001 can only deal with integers (i.e no floating
>point), is this true?
This depends. It's not very difficult to implement floating point routines.
You can get them from Motorola for free.

***************************************
*        Uwe Seimet                   *
*        seimet@rhrk.uni-kl.de        *
*        seimet@chemie.uni-kl.de      *
*-------------------------------------*
* I really hate this damned machine,  *
*     I wish that they would sell it. *
* It never does that what I mean      *
*     but only what I tell it.        *
***************************************
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
From: swood@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Scott Wood - EVENSONG)
Subject: Gne Emacs 18.57 and termcap help needed
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:24:45 GMT

I have been trying to get a version of gnu emacs running on my 1040 STe
with 4 meg and have not had any luck.  I downloaded the MiNT files and
the emacs for mint off of a.a.u.e and got all the files put in the
right place, set my environment variables, and attempted to invoke
emacs.

Only problem is, every setting that I use for TERM, I get same response.

It says that the setting does not support emacs as it can not position
the cursor.

Anyone know what I gotta do (or what kind of termcap I gotta get) to
get emacs working!!!!

swood

-- 
+========================+    -------_________     +=========================+
| WANTED - DEAD OR ALIVE |    o\ o \     ____|o    |  If you see this lure,  |
|  Creek Chub "Plunker"  |      \___\_-o-    viv   | PLEASE send me email!!! |
+========================+            viv          +=========================+
From: jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca ( John Henders )
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Organization:  One of these days for sure
Subject: Re: DSP in the Falcon
Reply-To: jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca
X-Software: HERMES GUS 1.03 Rev. Apr 14 1992
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 18:20:24 -0700

In <469@muller.loria.fr>, Steven Eker writes:
>
>Things which the 56001 should be useful for include software sound synthesis
>& matrix*vector multiplcation (the basis of 3D vector games).
>
>If the DSP DMA is implemented right (does anyone have a programmer eye view of
>this yet?) is should be possible to use it as an extremely fast graphics
>processor for polygons/phong shading/texture mapping (I wonder if anyone
>will bother to write an "Ultima Underworld" type game for the Falcon?).
>I worry about this though - the DSP is 24 bits and the 68030 is 32 bits
>so there's plenty of room for Atari to screw up...
>
	For anyone who hasn't seen the latest AEO, the Falcon appears to 
have been design as a 24 bit computer, partly to maintain compatability 
with existing software. This doesn't mean third party boards etc can't
extent that, but it explains the 14 meg memory limit. The other captures 
from Jim Allen posts to GEnie say that the Falcon chips all seem to talk
at 16mhz. Another poster mentioned here that there's an 8bit processor to
dsp channel, I guess for uploading code into the dsp, though I don't
know if that means you can't tell the dsp to load a program from a memory
location itself, which would be faster, I'd guess. 
	Motorola says the top speed the 56001 is clocked at is 33mhz, so the 
ad/da converters must be the parts clocked at 50mhz.


-- 
jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca
From: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Subject: Re: Atari Messe News
Date: 26 Aug 92 08:55:29 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Heriot-Watt University, Scotland

In article <1992Aug25.111751.190949@rrz.uni-koeln.de>
aeg03@rrz.uni-koeln.de (Jan T. Kim) writes:
>(WRT Falcon030)
>and the bad news: The ACSI port is gone. But then, I'd  speculate
>it  won't be too difficult to construct an adaptor for using ACSI
>devices from the SCSI port of the Falcon.

Why would you need an adaptor to put an Atari hard disk on a SCSI port?
Just remove the host card and connect the drive (or SCSI controller+ST506
drive) directly to the Falcon SCSI II port.

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own !
!                                                                            !
! Neil Forsyth                      JANET:  neil@uk.ac.hw.cs                 !
! Dept. of Computer Science         ARPA:   neil@cs.hw.ac.uk                 !
! Heriot-Watt University            UUCP:   ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil          !
! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK           "It's not much of a Cheese Shop is it?"  !
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: STE specific info needed!
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Ottawa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 22:00:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.180222.990@polaris.utu.fi> hysky@polaris.utu.fi (j.h.husgafvel) writes:
>And one technical question: what may I connect to those audio ports? I
>have a pair of active speakers, is there any easy possibility
>connecting those (meant to be connected to haedphone port) without
>frying anything...

What you'd want to do is to connect them to an amplifier, which then
gets hooked to a set of speakers.  They produce quite nice stereo
input; there's not enough juice in 'em to run any substantially sized
speaker - I really don't know the impedance.  You should be able to
hook 'em up to a set of headphones.  Make sure you have a
potentiometer in between for volume control (unless you want to use
the CPX to control volume).  You MIGHT be able to hook up a SMALL pair
of speakers.  You'd be better off hooking it up to the stereo system,
tho.

-- 
Christopher Browne
cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca
University of Ottawa
Master of System Science Program
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
From: faliaga@usachux1.usach.cl (Fernando Aliaga)
Subject: communication software with MNP
Organization: Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Chile
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 22:11:17 GMT


HI:

  I look for a comunication software whit MNP. The FLASH
INTERCOMM dont't work.

  If somebody know where I can found this software with
MNP emulator, please reply me or post an article.

Thanks in advance.


Fernando Aliaga V.
faliaga@ux1.usach.cl
faliaga@lascar.puc.cl
faliaga@usachvm1.bitnet

Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Date: Tue,  1 Sep 1992 16:49:02 -0400 
From: Stefan Monnier <sm86+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Tape drive for ATARI ST

Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.atari.st.tech: 1-Sep-92 Tape drive for
ATARI ST Roger-Hunen@medtronic.CO (457)

> Hello all!

> I have a 4MB ST with a 105 MB hard drive. I used to backup to floppies,
> but as data grows it becomes tedious...

> So now I am looking for a tape drive. What are the recommeded solutions
> (both hardware and software parts, SCSI or other, etc)? I don't need a plug
> and play solution per se: I know how to use the soldering iron as well as
> how to develop some software.

> Please respond by E-mail as I usually don't read this group.

> Regards,
> -Roger


Once again: if you don't read this group, don't ask questions in it:
it is not just a hot-line: it is a conference !

If you think it is worth asking a question, then it is worth reading 
it sometimes (cause this way you may have an answer for someone else's
problem)

And by the way: never only respond by email, as someone else may
be interested. (That's the case for me on that question)

	Stefan Monnier



-----------------------------------------------------
-- On the average, people seem to be acting normal --
-----------------------------------------------------
From: micro@imada.ou.dk (Klaus Pedersen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Subject: Re: DSP in the Falcon
Date: 3 Sep 92 18:26:30 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Math. & Computer Science, Odense University, Denmark

clint@artech.UUCP (Clinton Keith) writes:

>The adc/dac channel is driven off the DMA clock, which is driven off a
>sub-divided horizontal scan rate.  The 525 scan line rate sub-divided
>by 12, 24, 48 and 96 give the 6250, 12500, 25000 and 50000 bytes per
>second DMA/CODEC rate.  This is the same as the STE/TT.

In the very techie "test" of the Falcon in the German C'T you can read a
differend story:

"[external/internal clock, prescale 4-24 or 128]. Internally there is a
27.175MHz clock to select the for the STe known sampling rates of
12.5KHz, 25KHz and 50KHz, or 32MHz in order to use the full bandwidth of
the memory transfer, with an sampling rate of 62.5KHz on eight 16bit 
channels. This is also the upper limit for the external clock."

(if the about dosn't make any sense then it is probaly because my german 
is even worth than my english)

-Klaus
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Date: Tue,  1 Sep 1992 02:26:08 -0400 
From: Stefan Monnier <sm86+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: DSP in the Falcon
	<H.op5odQJVpyw@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca>

Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.atari.st.tech: 1-Sep-92 Re: DSP in the
Falcon John Henders @jonh.wimse (1405)
> >I worry about this though - the DSP is 24 bits and the 68030 is 32 bits
> >so there's plenty of room for Atari to screw up...
> >
> 	For anyone who hasn't seen the latest AEO, the Falcon appears to 
> have been design as a 24 bit computer, partly to maintain compatability 
> with existing software. This doesn't mean third party boards etc can't
> extent that, but it explains the 14 meg memory limit. The other captures ...
> -- 
> jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca 	


Well, when speaking about 24 and 32 bits, it was about data and not 
address bits: the DSP56001 has a data path of 24 bits ! (and an internal
register size of 56 bits hence the name. Little game: guess what's
the register size of the DSP 96002 ?)
This width difference surely poses some problems for implementing
DMA or other memory accesses !

	Stefan Monnier


-----------------------------------------------------
-- On the average, people seem to be acting normal --
-----------------------------------------------------
From: bq035@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brian Jepson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Subject: Contacting Double Click
Date: 3 Sep 1992 16:22:07 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bq035@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brian Jepson)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I'm trying to reply to these messages from DC software regarding their search
for documentation writers, but I keep getting a message that the user's account
has expired when I try: uace0@menudo.uh.edu

-- 
*********************
* "Nothing is true; Everything is permitted" - Hassan i Sabbah *
                                         ***********************
Brian Jepson = iby223@uriacc.uri.edu || bq035@cleveland.freenet.edu
From: as327@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Roy Bixler)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Subject: Re: GNU make 3.62 at atari.archive
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:46:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.188atpINN83j
Reply-To: as327@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Roy Bixler)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Thanks for all the responses.  I downloaded 'gmake362.zoo' from the 'new'
subdirectory.  The readme file said something to the effect of Frank doing
some weird code which only worked with the RCS setup on his machine and
this new version should work on everyone's machine.  Well, I don't know
about that, but it works on mine now.

By the way, is there no one to maintain atari.archive now?  It seems to me
that this and other similar problems would not happen if there were.  Too
bad I'm not a Michigan student ...
-- 
Roy Bixler
Internet: as327@cleveland.freenet.edu -or- rbixler@nyx.cs.du.edu
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
From: Ulf_Moeller@hh2.maus.de (Ulf Moeller)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Subject: Re: argv
Date: 24 Aug 92 21:19:00 GMT
Organization: MausNet
X-Gateway: MausGate/News 1.11

marshall@cs.uq.oz.au (Marshall Harris) wrote:

>I can't work out how to use argv on my Ste (can it be used at all?).

Any decent library should use ARGV. The gcc and mint libs do, and the Pure C
lib does if you use the pcvstart.o startup code.

>Can anyone enlighten me on how to access a C program's own name from within
>the program?

main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
    char *progname = "unknown";
    if (argv[0][0] != '\0')
        progname = argv[0];
    /* ... */
}
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
From: bammi@acae127.cadence.com (Jwahar R. Bammi)
Subject: Re: Help with prog. Execption handlers on ST
Organization: Cadence Design Systems
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:51:56 GMT

> 	My problem is that I get  an address error when I execute a RTE
> from the exeception processing routine, ala here is portions of my code
 ...
> My question is, do I need to do anything special in the execption
> handler before i execute an RTE ??
> 

	yes, you need to pop off the exeception frame. also remeber
that different members of the 68k family have different exception frame
formats. (you can test the word at location 0x59e on the atari to test
for the presence of a non-68000).

cheers,
--
--
bang:   uunet!cadence!bammi			jwahar r. bammi
domain: bammi@cadence.com
GEnie:	J.Bammi
CIS:    71515,155
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
From: rh0083b@medtronic.COM (Roger-Hunen)
Subject: Tape drive for ATARI ST
Organization: Medtronic, Inc.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 13:17:03 GMT

Hello all!

I have a 4MB ST with a 105 MB hard drive. I used to backup to floppies,
but as data grows it becomes tedious...

So now I am looking for a tape drive. What are the recommeded solutions
(both hardware and software parts, SCSI or other, etc)? I don't need a plug
and play solution per se: I know how to use the soldering iron as well as
how to develop some software.

Please respond by E-mail as I usually don't read this group.

Regards,
-Roger
From: rdo@kynes.bison.mb.ca (Russell Ochocki)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Subject: DSP in the Falcon
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 00:31:22 CDT
Reply-To: rdo@kynes.bison.mb.ca
Organization: Private Site, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
X-Software: HERMES GUS 1.03 Rev. Apr 14 1992

There has been several threads discussing how great it is to have DSP in
the Falcon.  I have read all these articles, but don't have a clue what DSP
is or what it does?

Can someone enlighten me?
-- 
____________________________________________________________________________
| _   /|  |  Russell Ochocki
| \`o.0'  |  rdo@kynes.bison.mb.ca
| =(___)= |-----------------------------------------------------------------
|    U    |  A closed mouth gathers no foot.
|_________|_________________________________________________________________