HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jogle@aoc.nrao.edu (Ks. Jim)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Flintlocks vs. bows
Date: 17 Nov 92 14:07:32 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
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Anthony writes:
 
> 	Now you're hitting on the real issue at stake.  Most pistols are just
> plain pathetic, especially if the target has any kind of armor at all.  They
> should be deadly, feared, and yes, even RESPECTED.
>      I'm sure you'd respect a .38 police revolver, if one was pointed at you
> even though with only damage 14, (assuming you had an average 8 Toughness) on
> the average shot you wouldn't even be wounded! ("It's just a scratch!")  For
> that matter, you'd likely even respect a Flintlock!

However, you will score a Knockdown which will put the target flat on his ass,
which is moderately realistic.  Sure, he can get back up and in terms of game
mechanics is hardly injured, but in a real-life situation how many people will
calmly realize that they've been shot but not truly wounded?  

> 	When watching adventure movies (after all, TORG is a Cinematic game)
> there almost inevitably comes a scene when the protagonist and antagonist
>are struggling for the gun (usually a PISTOL).  In Torg, many characters I know
>would just grab a handy chair, or something else big, and bash the antagonist's
> skull in.  All pistols should do enough damage (even when used by Ords) that
> when the SK is confronted by someone with a loaded pistol aimed at him that he
> should hesitate and not immediately attack.  While all good role-players would
> do so, there is littl reason, as the rules stand, that the SK won't just
> take the hit and close in on the adversary.

That's a problem with the players and how they play their characters; they
know that anything short of vaporization can be bought off with a Possibility
and/or Hero and Drama cards so of course they're not going to worry about 
taking damage from small (less than an assault rifle) weapons.  If they were
playing ords they'd have a little more respect for small weapons.

One way the situation can be handled with the TORG rules is for the bad
guy to attempt an Intimidation of the hero ("I've got a gun!"), but unless
the NPC has a bitchin' Intimidation skill that generally isn't going to be
very successful.  (Ok Dave, now you can leap in and start arguing for rules
on getting bonuses to Intimidations when using weapons. 8-)
 
> --Anthony Greene
> -I can't believe Mobius is DEAD!!!

Of course he's not dead!  Major Nile villains never die, even when you see
the bullet-ridden corpse.  It was obviously a surgical duplicate or a clone
of some type (just wait until you encounter the REAL Mobius!  Bwah-hah-hah-
hah-ha!!!!!)

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: burt@ptltd.com (Burton Choinski)
Subject: Re: Flintlock
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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:46:36 GMT

The whole problem we have is that any shmoe that rolls good enough can 
penetrate any armor, be it with a Godbeam or a sling shot.

     -- Burton

P.S. Still awaiting caustic comments about Nile Magic Mk. II. :)
From: cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu (Colin J. Wynne)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Flintlocks vs. bows
Date: 17 Nov 92 06:54:35 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
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On Tue, 17 Nov 1992, Jim Ogle wrote:

> That's a problem with the players and how they play their characters; they
> know that anything short of vaporization can be bought off with a Possibility
> and/or Hero and Drama cards so of course they're not going to worry about 
> taking damage from small (less than an assault rifle) weapons.  If they were
> playing ords they'd have a little more respect for small weapons.

That's the point of being p-rated -- you can take reckless chances with a
very good probability of coming through relatively unscathed.  Ords,
though, *do* fear pistols.  Usually, though, if I have to make up a damage
value from scratch, my method is, "How much would this do to an average
person?", meaning a TOU 8  Ord.  If it should kill the Ord, then the
damage will be set to something like 8+12=20, for a moderately good bonus.
 From this point of view, pisol damage does seem to be too undervalued.

> (Ok Dave, now you can leap in and start arguing for rules
> on getting bonuses to Intimidations when using weapons. 8-)

Hey, gm's discretion.  You can put in whatever modifiers seem appropriate.
If character A just vapourised npc 1 with a Thav-Nu, and then points said
Thav-Nu at npc 2 and smiles, I think that's worth an intimidation bonus. 
For anyone who plays Hero system, think of using the Presence Attack
bonuses as Intimidation modifiers.

(BTW, the Presence Attack that my Superhero Berserker wants to perform one
of these days [good thing Hero doesn't use Wicked (tm) Acts!]:
	Grab -- call shot wrist,
	6d6+1 Killing Attack -- Call shot shoulder
	Presence Attack -- beat target (or close friend) over the head with
			   the bloody stump.)

CJW

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  =====  Colin J. Wynne                     Washington & Lee University  =====
  =====  cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu              Lexington, Virginia      =====
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Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Re:  a sort of faith question...
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Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:00:45 GMT

Smooge writes:

> What my question is... what happens when said avatar enters a cosm of a
> lower spiritual axiom than can support it... Does it disappear (I would
> say if the avatar was an ord in a pure zone)... Does it disappear when it
> fails a contradiction check? Do we treat it like an elf and giant and it
> gets a spiritual sickness?

If this is an avatar along the lines of the ravagon avatar (possession
of a follower's body) I'd say that disconnection would drive the
avatar out of the person's body.  I'd include a contradiction check at
the beginning of every scene that the avatar was somewhere that
wouldn't support his presence.

If we're talking an actual, physical presence of a diety on the
material plane, then I'd say it would either be a P-rated being of the
appropriate reality (Dunad's avatar would be Ayslish, etc) or could be
a cosm-hopper from the diety's home cosm and would have whatever
reality (axioms & world laws) that the GM came up with for a diety's
cosm (Spiritual 33 for one thing.)  Such an avatar would be like a
High Lord or HL lieutenant in that he could have very high attributes
and abilities without enhancement packages and the like, so
disconnection wouldn't make him ill as it would an elf or giant.

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: oakes@jupiter.nmt.edu (David Oakes)
Subject: Re: Most Dangerous Highlord
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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:20:59 GMT

[smooges rewrite because she should be wimpy -
 and subsequent complaint she is wimpy - deleted]

as stands, jez did take out the previous HL in physical combat,
and even if we assume that she used monkey tricks
(shooting him in the back, Occultech(tm) drain fields, etc)
AND the DD helped by not helping whatisface, the previous HL
(i dont think that the DD would active help jez win, like heketon,
 since it does live by survival of the fitest - who ever is HL
 would have to be qualified on their own merits)
she is still going to be studly enough to take out HL-1,
AND be able to hold off the younger demon lords who covet her power
(people like thratch and sterret could take her out, 
 but they dont want to have to deal with leading at this time)
so she should be combat equal to the standard demon lord,
with a little more smarts, and just a little more cunning
(regardless of the comic, i feel that the average demon is a 
 mindless killmachine, and only a few are as cunning as thratch/ster)

yes, thark is munchkin, but by definition, jez's only competition in HTH
should be other demon lords, some ravagons, and maybe BK (maybe) -
she will aslo be competant in cyber and magic, but the other HLs
will be much more so, and BK and jean have her beat in miracles, hands down
(personally, the GM wouldnt be a contender at all, exept for the PoF,
 and the fact he plans like Kanawa and Dr Mo combined...)

dave "and his DD is bigger than yours..." oakes
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: wolf@cheshire.oxy.edu (Clinton Richard Wolf)
Subject: Re:  My Tharkpost
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 21:27:02 GMT

In article <gatemail1.0b324141232508@morticia> Rick Jones <albert@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu> writes:
>> >said that he wanted the end to be a grand-scale 'James Bond-like'
>>  'James Bond like?'
>>  GET WITH THE GENRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>	Well, I think the 'James Bond'-ishness refered to the players
>trying to move through an army of bad guys fighting an army of good
>guys (like "Live and Let Die"), which isn't itself a bad idea, but
>it was handled poorly.
>	For those who don't like the proponderance of techno-demons and
>battlesuit warriors on the climax of CoD, change the techno-demons to 
>CyFliers (or other gangslayers), and change the battlesuit warriors to
>MacSec Agents on hover-assault platforms.  Looking back on it, that's
>what I should have done. 
>-- 

 Well, that's a good fudge, but my point was that such a large scale, out in
the open battle does not belong in the Techno-horror genre. James Bond is not
Techno-horror. If he wants to do a scene like this, he should write an adven-
ture set in either Nippon or the Nile, where such a huge climactic conflict 
doesn't horribly clash with the MOOD.



Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Telestro ip Wandrun <"wesley: :baileyt"@kirk.msoe.edu>
Subject: who
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Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:25:30 GMT


Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: michael@stb.info.com (Michael Gersten)
Subject: GM vs Demon
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Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 01:51:00 GMT

Well the reality storm option was used in a second fight. All demon
princes have 30+ realities. The Gaunt Man has a 35. It took a lucky
round and Maelstrom put the gaunt man from heketon again. Months later
either the Gaunt Man or Sterret comes out.
---
Well, lets see. If Sterret gets a malestorm before GM can act, yes, this can  
happen. Otherwise,
If GM acts first, he has +5 from reality scores, +3 for home turf. He needs a  
+13 for a clean transform, and both he and heckton can spend the first round  
(sterret can only block GM's spending, not heckton's. Right?).

So, with the sum of two dice, GM needs at least an 18, average 21. Bye bye.

If you don't like that, try this:
Heckton loans out his reality skill, GM does a one-shot clean transform, poof.  
What? You say that heckton won't loan out his reality? Given a choice  
between another 2 years, or getting started now, I'd say he'd go for it.

Or, try this:
Even if a storm comes out, GM has recently tapped Heckton for mongo loads  
of PE. Sterret has very little. If a malestorm results, Sterret can grab PE from  
the storm. GM has no need to do this. GM will be getting much higher results  
than Sterret. GM can simply drain Sterret each time, and ignore the "recharge  
from the storm". If sterret has, say, 100 possibilities (rediculous for a non-high  
lord), then figure sterret will gain at most 2 per round, and GM will strip 7 per  
round, thats 20 rounds. Maybe 25, if GM rolls poorly.

Poof. Next TD?

(remember, with a -8 difference, and all spending canceled, you have to  
natural 10 or 20 just to get one result point.

Reality combat is deadly. Just how did that E-S storm take 2-3 years,  
anyways?

		Michael
--
		Michael Gersten		michael@stb.info.com
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Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: "Colin J. Wynne" <cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu>
Subject: Re: Flintlocks vs. bows
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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 13:04:47 GMT

On Tue, 17 Nov 1992, Jim Ogle wrote:

> That I have no real problem with - what Dave wanted was a bonus for
> just pointing a weapon at someone even if they haven't seen it in use
> (or you do something nondamaging like firing over their heads).  It's a
> good idea and has precedent in the cinematic genre, but if you can get
> a better Intimidation result by using a weapon its just going to
> increase the Big Guns (tm) problem and leave all those weaponless
> people out of luck (may be realistic, but doesn't make for good
> roleplaying.)  

Well, then it's a multi-action: intimidate/shoot, or its just an
intimidate with maybe a +1 or +2 depending on just how menacing looking
the weapon is.  You know the description in the UltraCAD section of
Tharkold, about the pistol in big, black gleaming angular metalic facets
with a big sign that says, "YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE WRONG END OF THIS
WEAPON!!!"?  Well, it still only does 20 or so damage (if that), but I
might give someone an Intimidation bonus if they were waving that at
somebody.  :)

CJW


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  =====  Colin J. Wynne                     Washington & Lee University  =====
  =====  cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu              Lexington, Virginia      =====
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From: SHERIS@EARLHAM.BITNET
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Gauntman -- he IS dangerous, novels not withstanding
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:37:00 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
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>I am still quite positive that the Big Rock the Ohbi of the Land
>Below is eventually going to reduce the Gaunt Man to his component molecules.
>They said that the New Eternity Shard (and the Rock's the only one mentioned)
>would alter the course of the P-Wars.   Think about what it's group power
>is.

We seem to think alike, Rick, and that scares me.  The Sphere (the name of the
eternity shard thou spokest of) has enough power to do the job.  All we need to
do is find some SKs who are attunned to the sphere, find a way to lure the GM
into The LB, and activate the seize power.  Then you run for cover while the
storm hits.  Anyone care to make a bet that the Sphere makes a guest appearance
in "The Gaunt Man Returns"?

>       Unless of course Mobius gets his hands on it, and uses it to
>make and Eternity Bomb of Ludicrious Power.
>--
>Rick Jones                             Systems Support Center
>albert@bcm.tmc.edu                     Baylor College of Medicine
>Voice: 713-798-7352                    standard disclaimers apply
>               Don't flame me because I'm beautiful.

                                        Glory Card, Glory Card, Hallejuah!
                                        Isaac Sher
                                        High-Lord of Earlaham College
From: papillo@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Ellison)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:38:32 GMT
Subject: How to use arcane knowledges?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg

What exactly are arcane knowledges used for?  Are they used in the casting
of spells, or only in the learning of spells?

If Merlin has Conjuration 14 and Fire +3, is his effective skill at
throwing Conjured Fireball 17, or does the arcane knowledge only affect
what spells he may learn?

Bob Ellison, HP Fort Collins
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: michael@stb.info.com (Michael Gersten)
Subject: Gauntman -- he IS dangerous, novels not withstanding
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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:38:00 GMT

	The Heart of Coyote:  exactly.  How could anyone POSSIBLY consider the
Gaunt Man the most dangerous High Lord, or dangerous at all for that matter, if 

he could allow himself to be so easily incinerated by a group of Storm Knights
of almost child-like stupidity!  Now it just testifies that to exactly how
BAD the _Possibility_Wars_ novels really were that the supposed "Genius
mastermind" behind this grand scale invasion of Earth would so easily let some
pretentious group of strangers right into the most heavily fortified and
nastily guarded fortresses in the country, without a problem whatsoever.  Worse
yet, he lets one of said Storm Knights stuff an eternity shard down his pants. 

---

Remember the Borg? "They either don't see us, or don't see us as a threat".

Illmound Keep is not a fortress, with everything walled off. Everything is there, in  
plain sight, covered with a SEP field -- people don't want to see all that stuff, so  
they don't.

Remember, GM has said that he only rules because Heckton wants him to rule. If  
you want to fight him, you must be willing to fight Heckton. GM does not  
consider stormers to be a threat; they are just playthings to be amused by. He  
doesn't fortify -- he annoys, and infears.  He experiments. He learns. He never  
knew about the danger of Eternity shards before, so he didn't have any defense  
prepared -- that trick won't work a second time. In fact, nothing works twice  
against him -- you have to keep coming up with new things. And you just know, in  
the back of your mind, that there just isn't anything else that will work. And that  
thought gives you fear. And fear is what he likes. He wants you to come in, and  
see just how hopeless is really is.
--
		Michael Gersten		michael@stb.info.com
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Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: "James H. Kiley" <jkiley@andy.bgsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Archive and GodNet...Good News
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Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:35:32 GMT



On Thu, 19 Nov 1992, Rick Jones wrote:

> 	This is a strange question, and probably impossible, but I was
> thinking that it would be "way kewl" if, while in the TorgMUSH, your character
> could then jack into the GODnet.  Is that at all possilbe? 

	The short answer:
	No.

	The long answer:
	GodNet is a MOO, TorgMUSH is a MUSH.  These server types are
incompatible, even if, as is rumored, someone were working up code to
enable MUSHes to connect with each other, the code works in totally
different ways.  Or so they tell me.
	Unless of course, Clay, you want to both of us switch over to
Unter? ;)

jk


Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: jmkaraka@eos.ncsu.edu (JOHN MARTIN KARAKASH)
Subject: Re: Flintlocks vs. bows
Originator: jmkaraka@c00058-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: jmkaraka@eos.ncsu.edu (JOHN MARTIN KARAKASH)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 04:32:31 GMT


|>[do I think a 2 hander should do more damage than a SMG]
|>
	[stuff missing on purpose]
|>
|>
	I'm not sure whether the TORG rules has the damages right
(I've seen discussions like this too many times), but I do know
that a submachine is loads DEADLIER then a two-handed sword.  Guns
are known as 'equalizers' because they are very easy to use and to
improve on your skill.  Swords and other HtH weapons usually takes
YEARS to reach any reasonable degree of proficiency.  This is not
including the preparation time to make a second stroke while the
gun wielder has pumped out 6 more rounds (Monty Python's Quest
for the Holy Grail has an amazingly realistic swordfight scene...
up to a point!  :)  Watch it and you'll see what I mean.)
	Also, an armored individual can take quite a few blows 
from the various muscle powered hand weapons, but a bullet will
punch right through (penetrating power).  In fact many of the
larger swords weren't all that sharp, they just depended on mass
and the edge to put a right good dent in someone's helmet (as a
side note, that's why a lot of helmet designs have points and
peaks and such.  They make sword blows from above glance off.)
	To wrap it up-- I dunno.  For a single sword stroke vs.
a single bullet against an unarmored person (both succesfully
striking) I would say that the sword should do more damage, but
those conditions are pretty rare.

	-john-
From: aodn307@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Joshua Henry Geurink)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: The Land of the Lost...
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:04:02 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Saaaaayy... I've been told you folks remember the opening theme to Land
of the Lost... Presumably came up in discussion over the Land Below...

Could someone pleaseohpleaseohpleaseohplease (gets up.  straightens shirt.)
send me the lyrics?  (blushes.  feels humiliated after his extended groveling)

It'd be a REAL help (I've had that @$#^#@! theme running through my skull on-
and-off for the last several years.  As we all know, the only way to remove
a song is to hear it...).

Thanks loads!



-I am the terror that flaps over Cairo
	I am the plot device that created Electronic Media
		_I_ am DRAMA DUCK!

or possibly Josh Geurink, CVE.  One of the two.
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Rick Jones <albert@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Most Dangerous Highlord
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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:24:32 GMT

> He wouldn't be the reason your GM is scared to run Highlord of Earth, for
> fear that Kanzar will welcome the coming of the bloody Aztec Empire with
> open arms... would he?

	Actually, the GM should look forward to running it.  Because it
says in black and white that anyone who accepts Huizi's offer to become
HLOE becomes an instant NPC.   And then the other PC's (though why 
anyone would hang out with that sicko escapes me) merrily blow 'im
away before H can give him any possibility energy and/or power.

	munchkins..... sigh.

Addition to the Real Man's List:

Favorite Module:

Real Men: City of Demons 
Real Roleplayers: Forever City (for the Orient Express train ride)
Loonies: Temple of Rec Stalek
Munchkins: High Lord of Earth.  ("I can get my own Darkess Device, KEWL!")

-- 
Rick Jones				Systems Support Center
albert@bcm.tmc.edu			Baylor College of Medicine
Voice: 713-798-7352			standard disclaimers apply
		Don't flame me because I'm beautiful.
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg