Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Let's hit Nazis?
From: abkevich@husc3.harvard.edu
Date: 21 Jan 93 05:50:08 EST
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

Sasha Pabst>> 'Mein Kampf' was the book in which Hitler described exactly his
plans (termination of Jews ("Endloesung", "Final Solution"), war against GB, F
and SU etc.) WAS known, at least after the NSDAP was elected. It was given to
people who married, got children,... So who had eyes to read and mind to
understand MUST have known what Hitler was up to.

Christian Lampl>> Yes, if they had read it. If you get a bible as a present for
your marriage, will you read it? (For idiots: No, I don't want to compare the
bible with 'Mein Kampf'. If you didn't get the sentence just try to read it
again).

Chris, I really hope that you just don't understand what did you write. You
lived in democratic state. In totalitarian state the book like 'Mein Kampf'
much, much more important then a bible. It will determine the whole your life.
And belive me (and my experience in USSR), it will not take you long t
understand it. If you will recieve contract for a new job as a present for your
marriage, will you read it? And if you will not then you can blame only
yourself in future. What Sasha Pabst is trying to tell you is that it was your
moral obligation to read such a book when you saw what happened in 1933. And
even if they didn't it was not as simle as with bible. You had to listen Nazi
propaganda and if you are a human being you had to stand against it. It is as 
simple as this. I could understand that you might be afraid but if you will not
you will gradually destroy your soul. 

Christian Lample>> ...neither KPD nor the NSDAP were democratic parties...
Well, there was no party which was not violent these days.
were no party which was not violent these days? The fact that NSDAP was able to
Don't you think it was a fault of all these "odinary Germans" (of that time)
that there was no party which was not violent these days? Fact that Nazis
managed to recieve 13,000,000 votes in 1932 should not be excused.
the crimes that hit civilians.

Christian Lampl>> Like in any war after WW1 (WW1 included).

NO! NO! Just compare number of civilians, which were murdered in WW1 and in
WW2. WW2 was not "just another war of 20-th century". You found similarities
with purges in communist countries. I am not interested in these similarities. 
It is NOT important at all. Or do you fill better because of massmurders in 
other countries too?

Sasha Pabst>> And there was more then just rumors. Especially the people around 
the "Konzentrationslager" (concentration camps?) did know since they could see
smoke from the crematories. 

Christian Lampl>> Yes, if I think at a secret place nobody was allowed to enter
and see smoke coming out of a smoke-stack I know in the same moment that people 
are burned there.

YES YOU WILL KNOW. Just think about how this smoke will SMELL!!! Witnesses told
that when the wind was from KZ it was hard to breath even in few miles from
camps. Just read books - the most stupid peasant who leaved near KZ knew what 
is going on. And again - what about rumors, drunk SS-officers, all-Europe hunt
for Jews, soldiers returned home from the East front: everybody in Ukraine, 
White Russia, Baltic states knew what was going on. I don't think German 
soldiers were less informed. Again witnesses told that German soldiers entered
Russian towns, from their remarks population understood what should they 
expect. Of course if you didn't want to know or was afraid to know totalitarian
state gave you all necessary excuses.

Christian Lampl>> What about the people who hid Jews in their flats or helped
them leave the country?

Of course such people existed! You are humans, aren't you? And I don't agree
with Larry in everything. I do want Germany to be united because it is your 
right and because I belive that WW2 happened probably because Allies tried to
punish the whole nation. They didn't have such right. But I don't want lessons
of WW2 to be forgoten just because some people now think that it was just an
average war and nobody knew a thing about what was going on. And I understand
that if such thing happened in Germany once it might happen there again and I
had a moral obligation to do everything I could to stop it. And don't forget
that still every Jew tried to run from Germany - it was not a place during WW2
where you had max chance that people would help you. But you are right it 
would be unforgivable if we will forget Germans who risked their lifes for
Jews.

Christian Lampl>>...after the Soarland was taken away from Germany many people
from there wanted to rejoin.

Sure. But 90% vote in such situation.... And don't forget that before 1935
France didn't occupy Soarland - it was ruled by LN and people there had the
third possibility: to extend LN administration. And if they didn't beleive
French newspapers wy didn't they by German (I am sure they were available)? Why
they didn't listen to Hitler speaches - he didn't hide anything, why they
didn't read 'Mein Kampf'? They also didn't care? 

Christian Lampl>> Let's hit the Nazis?

Sorry Chris, I don't see you hitting Nazis. You are doing everything to hit 
Larry. I could understand why. I think that at the same time you are defending
Nazis trying to hide their guilt. You obviously don't think so. May I am wrong.
But at least you are not hitting Nazis. This the last thing you are doing. Till
know the first and the last German who did hit Nazis was Sasha Pabst.

                              Regards
                                 
                           Victor Abkevich 
informed. And what about Hitler