From: e-sink@uiuc.edu (Eric W. Sink)
Subject: Re: Sozobon C - a free C for the Mac, too?
Originator: sink@ux2.cso.uiuc.edu
Reply-To: e-sink@uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: comp
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 23:26:02 GMT

Can't resist a few comments on this one:

ngse18@castle.ed.ac.uk (J R Evans) writes:

>Language implementations for the Mac, free of restrictions, are a little
>thin on the ground when compared with other platforms.  Although gcc has
>been ported to the Mac, it requires the proprietory MPW environment.  
>Eric Sink offered his 'Harvest C' to the community some months back,
>but himself describes it as an inappropriate line of development, and
>has encouraged hackers to concentrate their efforts through the TopSoft
>group on providing an unfettered environment for gcc, using the Harvest
>user interface as a starting point.

Minor point: actually it is not the user interface which is viable
from Harvest C, it is the linker, and maybe the assembler.  You could
use the GUI too if you liked, but that's not the hard part to rewrite.

[ Why not Sozobon C ? ]

>Unlike Harvest C, which by its author's statements needs
>substantial further debugging, Sozobon C has gone through several stages
>of refinement and produces workmanlike code (e.g. it can compile itself
>reliably).

>I suspect that a port to the Mac is not too horrendous a job, and I spent

Perhaps bigger than you might think.  Early versions of Harvest C could
self-compile reliably too.  Those version were on par with Sozobon
in features: simple C compilation with no special support for Mac
compilation.  THEN, I added Mac A5 globals, support for pascal functions,
and so on.  THEN, you need a way to link.  What object files are you
going to generate, and what will link them ?  Back to compilation,
what about traps ?

>So given that we can have a basic small compiler running quickly, just how 
>big a job might it be to make this produce Mac code?  Comments sought!
>[e.g. Sozobon doesn't know about the specialised purposes assigned within 
>the Mac to A5, but apart from telling the compiler to leave A5 alone, 
>I guess most of this stuff will appear in the libraries? Is that so? -- 
>As is probably obvious, I've done comparitively little Mac programming.]

Lots of work.  Actually producing the assembler instructions for C code
is the "easy" part.  Turning all that into a Mac application is much
harder.

>Just in case anyone runs away with the idea that *I* might produce
>such a compiler, let's say here and now that I don't have the time --

bummer.

>all I've done is a little exploratory work, and I'm offering the idea
>to those who may have a little more.  It seems to me that this may
>be a flier, and the objective of getting a functional, unencumbered C 
>compiler on the Mac could be achieved at an early date.  I'd like to
>generate a discussion on the merits of such a project.

I would like to see a free C compiler on the Mac.  Any compiler.
Simple support for minimal C features, no major optimizations needed.
All it needs to be is reliable.

Unfortunately, even starting with Sozobon, it's a BIG job.  It may be
less work than gcc, in which case I'd support the idea.  The fastest
route to a free, stable C compiler is a good road.  What we seem to
need are people with free time, which we don't have.

-- 
Eric W. Sink, Spyglass        | "In all the earth, only humans have the ability
1800 Woodfield Drive          |    to be content in bad situations...
Savoy, IL  61826              |    and vice-versa."
---- e-sink@uiuc.edu ---------|---------- 217-355-6000 -----------------------