HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: sources of new ridgy black stuff
Date: 12 Oct 92 10:37:40 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <BvtGJK.Hnv@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>, jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
> What companies still put interesting stuff out on LP (meaning *not* Placido
> Pavarotti Sings Carmina Burana's Greatest Four Seasons), and where do you
> get their catalogues and order it from?  ECM is the only one I see in the
> shops here.
> 
> I haven't bought a classical recording new in the four years or so since
> CD took over.  I expect CD to be superseded by a later technology before
> I get a player; with a few thousand records, my new clarinets, a filing
> cabinet full of sheet music and the improvements to Radio 3, I can wait out
> this siege a long time...
> 
Virtually none of the record companies are still releasing LPs; most shops,
even specialist shops no longer stock them new. And don't expect CDs to be
superseded for another twenty years or so: friends in the record-selling
business think that CDs and DCC will co-exist like LPs and MCs.

-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: DEBATE for those who are interested
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 00:35:44 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.195508.10230@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Joseph.J.Marcheso.Jr.@dartmouth.edu (Joseph J. Marcheso Jr.) writes:
>Anyway, in Re: ALW, allow me to clarify, His music is Crap (I've been
>known to listen to Erasure too) but his intentions are good. If he had

You've never had any dealings with him, right?  Most people who have,
would dispute this statement.  

Frankly I think his intentions can be expressed with the shift-4 combination
on your keyboard.  

>any real talent he would be able to bring quality music to a lot of
>people considering his sold-out audiences (you have to admit, more
>people have seen Cats than Aknaten) He has a great position in music
>too bad he has no clue how to ennoble AND entertain.

He doesn't *want* to ennoble.  See "Aspects of Love" if you doubt
me.

And people don't necessarily want to be ennobled, either.  It takes 
a certain kind of society for that to be an issue.

Roger
>If only there was someone who could do BOTH?!!?!!?!


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Das Lied van der Erde ( was Re: Mahler 1)
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:07:20 GMT

I *tried* to let this pass, really I did Chris, but I just couldn't.
Someday we'll find something we can agree on 100%, I promise.

In article <CB.92Oct7104533@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:

[Brigitte Fassbaender]
>has the uncontrolled vibrato that creeps into older voices.  

I have to point out that the acceptance of uncontrolled vibrato as a
natural consequence of aging (whether it becomes too slow and wide,
"wobble," or too fast and prominent, "flutter") is a quite recent
phenomenon.  It's actually a symptom of a misused voice (sometimes
otherwise very good ones), with the faults coming home to roost.  Listen
to any of the great voices from the first decades of this century as
caught on records (many of them in their 50s and 60s, and by a process
that was merciless about exposing unsteadiness).  *Not one*, even when
the tone is clearly becoming fragile and infirm, has any problem of this
sort.  I believe it's been determined that the first voice on records to
"age" in this now-ubiquitous way was the tenor Leo Slezak.

It's hard to think of a counterexample in our own time though, so I
can't blame Chris for speaking as he did.  Joan Sutherland had a long
career at the top, but her tone did start wavering in her last decade.
Christa Ludwig is a miracle at 70, but there's more vibrato in her tone
that there used to be.  Hm.  Is there *any* recent example of a singer
who maintained cleanly defined tone into his/her later years?  Alfredo
Kraus maybe -- it's dry, but it's steady, and he's been at it since the
50s.

The lesson of which, of course, is that they don't sing as well as they
used to.  But we knew that already, didn't we?

Jon Alan Conrad
From: peter@miller.cs.uwm.edu (Peter J Diaz de Leon)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re:CZARDAS
Date: 8 Oct 1992 23:40:19 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.9.13


In article <1992Oct3.143026.12956@highlite.uucp> alan@highlite.uucp (Alan McConnell) writes:
>My previous post, perhaps too flippant, fell between the cracks.  Forgive
>me if I try again. (what's the ASCII icon for abject submission?)
>  
>Most people will have heard, played by Heifetz or m Rabin or Ricci or your
>favorite local high school violinist, a piece called "Czardas".  I don't
>know if it really is a czardas or not.  Anyway it's very well-known and
>has been transcribed for viola, cello, clarinet, flute, and probably
>euphonium.  The composer is one "V.Monti".  V. Monti is mentioned in no
>reference book that I own or have access to; I haven't driven around to
>U of MD to check the "new" Grove.  I've also asked lots of musicians -
>no one knows anything.  My hope is that someone on the net will take
>pity on me . . . 
>Alan McConnell 
>-- 
>Alan McConnell             "What wondrous life is this I lead!
>Pixel Analysis              Ripe apples drop about my head . ."

Alan
I tried mailing you directly but it bounced. I am also
very interested in Csardas by Vittorio Monti (1868-1922)
The only CD I have been able to get my hands on that has 
Csardas on it is on the BIS (BIS-CD-258) label.  It is
distributed in the US by QUALITON IMPORTS LTD., N.Y.
The only problem is that it has been orchestrated for
and play by a trombone.  If you come accross something
for violin I am very interested.

Thanks
Peter
(peter@miller.cs.uwm.edu)

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU ("Bill Harrison (713)-743-2789")
Subject: CD prices
Reply-To: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 22:33:57 GMT


Some more (random) thoughts on CD prices...

* The DG "20th century classics" label is excellent value at medium
price, and many of the disks contain material not otherwise available.
I can't believe that some of the disks ever "paid themselves off" when
originally released (e.g. Nono, Maderna), thus DG is doing us a real 
favor by re-releasing these disks in this format. [Maybe they can't 
believe *anybody* would buy them at full price :=) ].

* Exchange rates can make a big difference -- e.g. Wergo disks are getting
horribly (by US standards) expensive. It's kind of annoying to see the
original sticker price of e.g. $15.99 simply covered over with a new tag
reading $17.99... 

* US stores often seem sloppy in their pricing policies. I often see mid-line
label disks priced at $15.99. 

* Some labels seem to have a pretty irrational attitude to prices. e.g. 
Decca/London's re-release of their Britten disks. Some are full price, 
some are medium price; I don't see any logical pattern as to how each 
particular disk is categorized...

Bill
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\               /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Bill Harrison,            \             /       "Be as radical as... |
| University of Houston, TX  >-----------<         reality itself"     |
| CHEM91@JETSON.BITNET      /             \                V. I. Lenin |
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/               \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks)
Subject: Re: The Abuse of Classical Music
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 17:10:31 GMT

fernande@cps.msu.edu (Jose Roberto Fernandez) writes:
|> One of the greatest abuses to me is the (over)use of Gershwin's Rhapsody
|> in Blue in the United Airlines commercials.  Hearing it over and over
|> (in short excerpt form) has seriously harmed my enjoyment of that piece.

If you think that's bad, try actually traveling on one of their planes
(while the thing is on the ground, at any rate).  It comes out of the
headphones *and* the plane's loudspeakers.
-- 
David Brooks					dbrooks@osf.org
Open Software Foundation			uunet!osf.org!dbrooks
100 more days of Bush Presidency!
From: RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET (Robert Haskins)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Glass meets Clive Barker
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:03:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: UMAB.92289.150344RHASKINS
Organization: University of Maryland at Baltimore

Kris Pranata writes:

> In article <92287.091713RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET> RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET (Robert
> Haskins) writes:
> > I'm more intrigued by the statement Glass is working on a symphonic
treatmetn
> > of David Bowie's _Low_ album -- got to love the concept!
> > Bob
> > Bob <RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET>
>
>
> To be premeiered in November at the Brooklyn Academy of Music,
> followed by a production of Einstein on the Beach a week or two later.
>
> Wishing I was at the other end of the continent:
>

Well, I heard the "Low" Symphony is going to be recorded on Glass's own
new label, Point Music (kinda makes you wonder about the status of Glass's
"exclusive," life-time contract with CBS, doesn't it).

As for _Einstein_ -- it sure is a pity they're not doing it in LA, or
somewhere like that -- but they're definitely going to do a film of it
at some point, so there's something to look forward to.  There are
broadcast quality videos of it, too.  Maybe you could pursuade Wilson'
s foundation to allow you access to it for a time as part of your research.

Bob
From: marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Glass meets Clive Barker response
Date: 15 Oct 92 02:12:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: slc.1992Oct15.021209.15833
Distribution: na
Organization: Servio Corp, Beaverton Oregon, US

Deryk Barker (dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA) writes:

> Glass is derivative of Terry Riley and Steve Reich, and far less
> interesting than either of them.

Surprising. I've found Glass's best to be more interesting than Riley's 
best, though Glass's worst can out-worst almost anybody.

Reich at his best was one of the best, for sure.

    Marc San Soucie
    Portland, Oregon
    marcs@slc.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: keller@utkvx3.utk.edu (Keller, Norman)
Subject: Re: Rakozy March question
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Tennessee Computing Center
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 20:25:00 GMT

In article <3955@phred.UUCP>, jimn@phred.UUCP writes...
>Unless it's incidental or scene change music, what's going on during the Rakozy (sp?) march in Berlioz "Faust"? And for that matter, what --if anything-- does Rakozy mean?
> 
>Thanks

When Berlioz was on his way from Vienna to Hungary in 1846, someone
advised him to write a piece on one of their national tunes. Then
they certainly would like him and his music, too. So he choose
a song written by John Bihari in 1809 to honor the Rakoczys, a noble
famliy long active in the Hungarian struggle for freedom from Austria.
His friend was right: the Rakoczy-march was received tumultuously
when Berlioz premiered it in Pesth.
Later he choose to put it in his Damnation of Faust.

I hope this was of any help.

Norman.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ujwb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jeff Beer)
Subject: Re: Beatles and the canon
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 13:08:29 GMT

In article <1bia1uINNaqv@calvin.usc.edu> alves@calvin.usc.edu (William Alves) writes:
>I have one funny/sad anecdote along these lines - I'm sure others have
>many similar ones. A friend of mine was working in a record store in the
>early 80's when a couple of teeny-boppers came up to him looking for
>Sgt. Pepper.
>
>"The Beatles or the Bee-Gees?" my friend asked.
>
>"The Beatles did a Sgt. Pepper too?!" they replied, astonished.

How many times have you heard this story?  I heard of another case where
there was a Beatles tribute going on,and someone says "Why are they
playing an Elton John song?".  But such is the MTV mindset, where
music history began last Tuesday.

Jeff
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: music@moravian.edu (Steve Heller)
Subject: Re: Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 23:18:49 EDT

In <Bw8qGE.L5r@fiu.edu> klimczak@serss0 (Peter Klimczak) writes:

>I would like to know the Sonata (or is it a Lullaby) number which is  
>commonly known as "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star."  I know the composer
>is Mozart.

It is a set of variations on a French folk song, the name of which I
can never remember verbatim...
-- 
/----------------------------------------\
| "Accept nothing that is unreasonable;  |
|    discard nothing as unreasonable     |
|  without proper examination." - Buddha |
|          music@moravian.edu            |
\----------------------------------------/
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ridgway@athena.mit.edu (Lee Ridgway)
Subject: Re: Pachelbel Canon(s)?
Keywords: Canon, Pachelbel
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 17:55:58 GMT

Scholars out there may correct me, but I don't think Pachelbel wrote any pieces
that he titled "Canon." What we know as the "Canon in D" is one movement in a
suite of pieces, but I forget what it is actually titled in the suite, if
anything. What Pachelbel did write, and what the infamous "canon" really is, are
chaconnes (or, following his use of the Italian, ciacona). He wrote several of
these for organ, specifically, and some that can be played on organ or
harpsichord (i.e., a separate pedal part is not prescribed). Keys of ciaconas
(ciaconi?) that I remember (because I've played them) are: D minor, F minor, D
major (2).

Now, in these pieces, and others, he did use canon, or imitative, techniques.
From: jefrank@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jason E Frank)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Bach Cello Suites on Period Instrument: Rec. Wanted
Date: 7 Oct 92 14:13:09 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

Does anyone out there know if Harnoncourt has recorded these (and, if
so, any opinions on them)?  If his reading of the 'Gamba Sonatas can
be taken as any indication, these would definitely be worth at least
a listen.
--j.e.f.
From: maverick@fir.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Need info on Kraanerg by Xenakis
Date: 9 Oct 1992 20:01:28 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: fir.cs.berkeley.edu
Keywords: Kraanerg, Xenakis

In article <Bvv8rJ.3Mw.1@cs.cmu.edu>, hsmoliar+@cs.cmu.edu (Harold Smoliar) writes:
|> In article <1b21tkINNf9s@agate.berkeley.edu> maverick@fir.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick) writes:
|> > [describing Kraanerg]
|> >
|> >(Analog) tape and 22 instruments -- largely extreme winds, if I remember
|>        				     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> What does this mean Vance and should I be offended?

I just remember that, of each family, he seemed to be picking only the highest
and lowest members.  I can't remember about the double reeds -- no cor anglais,
I think -- maybe a heckelphone.  :)  Don't be offended, you play a moderate
wind.

	Vance
From: jamesc@bassclar.Eng.Sun.COM (James Langdell)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Rakozy March question
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:34:44 GMT
Reply-To: jamesc@bassclar.Eng.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: bassclar

In article 3955@phred.UUCP, jimn@phred.UUCP (Jim Nevermann) writes:
>Unless it's incidental or scene change music, what's going on during the Rakozy (sp?) march in Berlioz "Faust"? And for that matter, what --if anything-- does Rakozy mean?
>

Thanks to "The New Columbia Encyclopedia," I have an answer to your second question.

Francis II Rakoczy (1676-1735) became the leader of the rebellion of the 
Hungarians against the Hapsburg oppression.  The outbreak (1701) of the War
of the Spanish Succession was followed by an uprising (1703) of the Hungarian 
peasants, particularly the Calvinists.  Rakoczy, at the head of the movement, 
soon controlled most of Hungary and in 1704 was elected "ruling prince"
by the diet. ...

Rakoczy is a major national hero of Hungary.  The stirring "Rakoczy March,"
named in his honor, was composed (1809) by John Bihari.  It was used by 
Berlioz in his "Damnation de Faust" and by Liszt in the "Hungarian
Rhapsody No. 15."  Playing the march was long forbidden in Hungary, where
the tune was used as a national air by the independence movement.

--James Langdell     jamesc@eng.sun.com
  Sun Microsystems   Mountain View, Calif.
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Glass meets Clive Barker response
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 00:38:38 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.200056.10779@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Joseph.J.Marcheso.Jr.@dartmouth.edu (Joseph J. Marcheso Jr.) writes:
>In article <1992Oct15.020911.15679@slc.com>
>marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie) writes:

>> I suppose this is what comes of requiring all Dartmouth students to learn 
>> how to use computers.

>Gee know about our program. Read about it in the application? Must have
>been crushed when you didn't get in. You'll have to excuse me I forgot
>there are still some BIG PRINT Dr. Seuss readers out there. Thanks for
>debating the substance of the issue.

Joseph, welcome to the net.  People are going to write things like that,
usually after they've been provoked.  (Don't tell me you don't think
you've provoked anyone, or made any specious arguments lately...)

But for heaven's sake, don't be snooty about your school.  Most of us
went to very nice colleges, same as you,
From: borchers@poogh.llnl.gov (Robert R. Borchers)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Axel Schiotz
Keywords: tenor,reissue
Date: 13 Oct 92 17:48:10 GMT

Does anyone know of any plans to reissue on CD, or CD's already issued of  
the famous Danish tenor Axel Schiotz? I have a number of his LP's but they  
are getting a little long in the tooth. My sense of listening to them is  
that a digital remaster would be very effective. Bob

--
Robert R. Borchers
L-414
Livermore, Ca 94551
borchers@llnl.gov
NeXTmail Welcome
From: ssc@nwu.edu (Steven Chung)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: EMI price increase
Date: 14 Oct 92 18:28:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Oct14.182817.29073
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Originator: schung@casbah.acns.nwu.edu

In article <1992Oct14.173715.14376@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Velde Francois) writes:
# 
# My point exactly: if the market for CDs was dominated by the big firms,
# that would be true in the US as in Europe, and the said big firms would be
# extracting as much as they can from us consumers on both sides of the Ocean.
# Fact is, CDs are cheaper here (in the US). My argument: the market in  the 
# US is competitive; as for Europe, either it is not competitive, or prices
# are distorted by inefficient distribution systems and taxes. These 
# inefficiencies must be large if they are enough, in the case of EMI, to make 
# CDs produced in the UK cheaper in the US (same for Harmonia Mundi, BTW).

No doubt others know this better than I, but CD prices in England, for
example, seemed to me pretty much in line with the rough 1 pound = 1 dollar
standard of other similar items (books, movies etc).  The tax system is the
culprit, I think.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel)
Subject: Re: Das Lied van der Erde ( was Re: Mahler 1)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 15:53:35 GMT

In article <Bvrp88.C7p@news.udel.edu>, conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) asks...

> Hm.  Is there *any* recent example of a singer
>who maintained cleanly defined tone into his/her later years?  Alfredo
>Kraus maybe -- it's dry, but it's steady, and he's been at it since the
>50s.
> 
>The lesson of which, of course, is that they don't sing as well as they
>used to.  But we knew that already, didn't we?
> 
Fischer-Dieskau seems to be holding fairly well.  I thought that Birgit
Nilsson sounded very good up to her retirement as well.  But Ludwig may
be the recent champ.  How about Elisabeth Soederstrom?

And then there's Hans Hotter.  He's had a troublesome wobble for some
time, do you think he has been singing inmproperly?  Or was his age?

On the one hand it may be that singers are not singing as well as they used
to, but I also think that the amount of singing they do nowadays is too
taxing on their voices.  And they just can't say no to all those booking
dates.  I think of Kollo in this regard as well.  Not only did he keep
up a rigorous opera schedule, but he frequently sang nightly at jazz clubs
for long periods.  He nearly ruined himself very early on, say by '77.  He
then supposedly cut back, and I was able to hear an improvement in some of
his video taped opera perfomances.

Ron
From: tony@cns.nyu.edu (Tony Movshon)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Brahms 3rd Symphony (Repost)
Date: 12 Oct 92 00:11:09 GMT
Reply-To: tony@cns.nyu.edu
Organization: New York University

In article 15983@spang.Camosun.BC.CA, dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:
> ... my favourites are
> Barbirolli with the VPO - *when* are EMI going to reissue these?

For what it's worth, Tower Records in New York has these, on Japanese
Seraphim import CDs.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
					Tony Movshon

Internet:  movshon@nyu.edu		Howard Hughes Medical Institute
					Center for Neural Science
					New York University
Phone:	   (212) 998-7880		4 Washington Place, room 809
Fax:	   (212) 995-4183		New York, NY 10003
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mgresham@artsnet.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Beatles and the canon
Date: 16 Oct 92 04:15:44 GMT
Organization: ARTSNET,  Atlanta (Norcross) Georgia

cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:

> Well, I was talking more about permanence than current recognition.  My
> hunch is still that older popular styles will just gradually disappear,
> though you make interesting points.  And some old pop stuff really does
> seem to be getting some Beethoven-style permanence, such as ragtime.

Ragtime, as an idiom, is actually an extension of salon musics,
the society dances and song of the time...rhythmic signature
of the style aside.  You had essentially the two-steps, marches,
waltzes, galops and ballads that were pervasive in the time
throughout Western society.  (Don't forget to compare Scott Joplin
with J.P. Sousa, and think of the popularity of singers such as
travelled from town to town performing the light classics of the
day.  Products of a culture where song and social dancing were
important features.)

--Mark Gresham

tired of re-typing dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu in this stupidly
primitive editor that came with WAFFLE.

=====