From: wwo@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (Thomas Schoene)
Subject: Re: Tornado F3 replacement (and Harrier)
Organization: Cornell University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:44:33 GMT


From wwo@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (Thomas Schoene)

In article <C143p2.382@law7.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>,
Paul Griffiths <griffith@acuson.com> writes: 

[some rather emphatic comments on the RAF leadership deleted]
> A better example of this was found in the not so long ago war in 
> the Falklands.  The task force actually ended up being defended by
> 25 Sea Harriers based on both the Invincible and the Hermes. The
> RAF came nowhere near bringing a CAP force forward.  Indeed the
> only time the lightblue crabs showed up was in a Vulcan (there
> were three vulcan flights, each flight had to be refueled 10
> times to make the long flight) and the only hit they got out
> of the 30 or so bombs they dropped was a small corner of Port
> Stanley airfield. 
The RAF also provided several Harriers for ground attack.  I know its small but
give them some credit.  Also, the Vulcan raids apparently kept the Argentinians
from deploying supersonic fighters to the Falklands.  If the Harriers had had
to deal with supersonic Mirage IIIs with enough fuel for real supersonic
sprints their effectivenesss woud have been much worse.  

[stuff deleted for space]

> Not that the Tornado is a bad plane...far from it.
> But the RAF has the logical plane to fill their needs right under
> their bloomin noses.  The harrier!  Sure it could do with more
> range...a little more power..and updated electronics...but as
> demonstrated not only in the Falklands, but in 'topgun' type
> exercises, the Harrier has proven itself over and over again
> as a powerful interceptor...  It kicked the shit out of an
> american based F-15 squad...did the same to the Navy when
> they gave it a go...  The harrier has gained the respect of
> a lot of adversaries...it's only the haughty sods in the 
> MOD who don't know what a great platform they've got. 
Of course the RAF does operate a LARGE force of Harrier GR.3,5, and 7 forattack
and close air support.  They like it, but not as a fighter.
> The harrier could easily fill the role of the Tornado...granted it could do
> with a little more power..and can't carry quite the load of the tornado, but
> at half the cost of the tornado, you just buy two of 'em.  The ability to
> land anywhere they fucking well feel like, also kinda works around their
> range problems.  During the falklands the Sea Harriers were constantly 
> going from Low CAP to over 30000ft to intercept Mirage III's.  Pulling to
> within 20 miles or so, before the Argentines broke away and turned off
> target.  
Where exactly do these Harriers land in the North Sea?ok  Interception missions
demand long unrefueled range.  Stoping for pit stops really cuts into
effectiveness.  You mention the Falklands.  Harriers did do very well there. 
Harriers also had severe time on station problems largely related to their
small size, which is in turn related to VSTOL.  Harrier also suffers from a
lack of internal volume for the upgraded electronics you want.  The new Harrier
II Plus and Harrier FRS.2 which have a useful radar capability also have some
fnacy work just to fit the radar; the main systems are well away from the
antenna and require special wiring (fiber-optics, I think) and these radars
aren't in the same league with serious interceptor radars.  Finally, Harriers
lack the speed to make timely intercept.  Supersonic speed requires more
exotic, and expensive, engine technologies like plenum chamber burning.  By
the time you add enough volume for the powerful radar, more fuel, (and a second
crewman).  You have a much larger AC than Harrier.  Add enough power to give
the speed necessary for a real interceptor and this plane is no longer cheap.
It may be great but few users could afford it.

Don't get me wrong, I love Harrier but NO aircraft can do everything.  The
AHrrier is a very good attack aircraft which has been pressed into service as a
fighter and aquited itself well but it is not a miracle plane.
> 
> DISCLAIMER:
>   I'm not really a raving lunatic, I just act like one
> 
-- 
Tom Schoene
wwo@cornella.cit.cornell.edu  -or- wwo@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"There is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right with
America"  	President William Jefferson Clinton
		January 20, 1993

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