HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ggr@koonda.acci.com.au (Greg Rose)
Subject: Re: Aarnet should not be pornographic!
Organization: Australian Computing and Communications Institute
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 06:12:46 GMT

[various talk about deleting pornographic material glossed over]

>i.e. basically do they meet the AARNet guidelines for acceptable use. If
>the answer is no, then they should be eliminated.

I think it would be great to get rid of all the stuff that doesn't meet
the AARNet or NSFnet guidelines. Then there might be enough pressure
created to get the guidelines changed or removed entirely. Then we
could go back to using peer pressure to make the network run the right
way. (You didn't know about peer pressure? Post a message about
deleting pornography to, say, talk.rape, and see what happens. (No,
don't tell me that rape and pornography are not the same thing, as
that is not the point -- you can't possibly justify deleting one and
not the other -- anyway, the point is that your incoming mailbox
traffic (both for and against) (Do you like nested parentheses? (Shut
up!)) might well get your network feed stopped.))

Personally, I think that the news network is a whole new social
phenomenon, and it is way too early to start imposing older types of
constraints on it. The WHOLE DAMN THING is simply a BIG experiment,
and in my opinion meets the guidelines admirably, except that
commercial traffic is still excluded (but then, that is a problem with
the experiment, not the guidelines).
--
Greg Rose                 Australian Computing and Communications Institute
ggr@acci.com.au                                              +61 18 174 842
`Use of the standard phrase "HIJACKED" may be inadvisable' -- CAA
From: ilanet@peg.pegasus.oz.au
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
Date: 12 Jan 93 20:52 EST
Subject: Uni South Australia catalogue
Nf-ID: #N:peg:246600058:000:326
Nf-From: peg.UUCP!ilanet    Jan 12 20:52:00 1993



Hi there,

Can anyone out there give me the email address of the poeople
that look after the University of South Australia catalogue.

I need to talk with them rgardegarding accersssss.

Appreciare ante any help you can give.

Sandra daveyDavey
ILANET
Email:   ilanet@peg.pegasus.oz.au   OR
         mln000001@DCDAU7.DAS.NET

Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
From: jonathan@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Jonathan Dwyer)
Subject: Re: Aarnet should not be pornographic!
Followup-To: aus.aarnet
Organization: Psychology Department, University of Queensland
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 08:10:15 GMT


Just my $0.02 worth (for Geoff) from a random point in the discussion:

We can be liberal or conservative,

X> Since pornography is demeaning to women, I believe the AarNet and any other
X> Australian network, should not be subscribing to such rubbish.

Y> Well, lets extend this line of thought - ban all the newsgroups except
Y> aus.* comp.*  bionet.* and sci.* 

and we can be anywhere else too,  and the neat thing about AARNet
or USENET is that so many points of view are tolerated and often
vigorously :) discussed.

HOWEVER, we all know what the media make of such things
in their scramble for advertising ratings, and remember what
happened to Prodigy.......

If the discussion of AARNet and its content ever hits shows like
Hinch, Current Affair or even 7:30 Report, we all know that the
'outraged (not to mention recession-squeezed) taxpayer' routine
will be dragged out, leading to the government imposed 'quick fix'
to mollify the supposed 'outraged taxpayers'.

Should this happen, the parameters of the 'quick fix' will probably
include, but not necessarily be limited to, the easiest targets, IMHO.

This raises the question:  Should there be easy targets available, i.e.
should AARNet allow a few controversial newsgroups to remain, which
may then be 'sacrificed' in case of trouble.....or.....should AARNet remove
such newsgroups in the hope of avoiding media attention to begin with?

Of course this assumes a definition of 'targets' limited to newsgroups.

Just, as I said, my 'passing thought'  ichi-yen (inflation modifed) worth...

Jon

BTW Is there any truth to the rumor that some major component of
AARNet funding has been removed in the interests of 'user pays'??

--
                        | Internet:            jonathan@gauss.psy.uq.oz.au
Jonathan Dwyer          | Bitnet: jonathan%psych.psy.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Department of Psychology| JANET:     jonathan%psych.psy.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
University of Queensland| EAN:                    jonathan@psych.psy.uq.oz
AUSTRALIA   4072        | UUCP:     uunet!munnari!psych.psy.uq.oz!jonathan
                        | JUNET:               jonathan@psych.psy.uq.oz.au

 
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
From: Quinn <quinn@cs.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Aarnet should not be pornographic!
X-Xxdate: Fri, 8 Jan 93 00: 00:28 GMT
Organization: The University of Western Australia
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d13
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 00:05:47 GMT

Oh god, the thread continues...

In article <1igqfaINNi90@flash.pax.tpa.com.au> David Clunie,
dclunie@pax.tpa.com.au writes:
>There are two groups of women involved in the pornography debate: those 
>opposed to it, and those in favour of it. Those women in favour of 
>pornography are, like the 'collaborateurs' in France during WWII, like
that 
>because they feel that the world cannot be changed (and will not be), so 
>that they may as well make the most out of their lot in the
male-dominated 
>world.

This is *totally* untrue.  A significant group of respected feminists
are in favour of pornography simply because they feel that banning it
sets a bad precedent.  Minorities (and women are most definitely
a minority in terms of power) suffer badly in a censored society.

Quinn "The Eskimo!"      <quinn@cs.uwa.edu.au>     "Support HAVOC!"
Department of Computer Science, The University of Western Australia
  -- Happy New Year!
  -- If you don't believe me take a swim in soc.feminism.
From: dclunie@pax.tpa.com.au (David Clunie)
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
Subject: Re: Aarnet should not be pornographic!
Date: 7 Jan 1993 02:32:33 GMT
Organization: Her Master's Voice
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dclunie@pax.tpa.com.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: britt.pax.tpa.com.au

In article 18232@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU, gja@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au (Grenville Armitage) writes:
>In article <1ibbrfINN2hp@flash.pax.tpa.com.au> dclunie@pax.tpa.com.au writes:
>>Can you watch a movie in this country 
>>that has not been approved by someone else ?
>>They actually take bits out and say
>>"no I don't think the likes of Grenville should see this" and you never do.
>	[..]
>>Of course I guess you are not truly censored.
>
>You've missed a perfect analogy. The govt may censor a particular "newsfeed"
>(TV, public video libraries, etc) - but I'm still able to get almost any
>movie direct from the source on tape, no? So, no I'm not really censored.

The tapes that are available in this country are not necessarily an uncensored
product. In fact in many cases they are "tame" releases that have been specially
made for consumption in countries like this. If you directly import movies that
have not been approved by the censor then you are breaching customs regulations -
just read the declaration for instance for "unaccompanied goods" of returning
travellers - it specifically mentions videotapes.

The "Uncensored Director's Cut" of many movies would not be legal to import into
this country.

Furthermore, Scandinavian-style pornography that you might choose to watch is not
legal to import, or even possess, in this country. If you have it, you must have
imported it and it is quite legal for customs agents to raid your home and seize it.

> So few people are truly censored,
>because the instances of true censorship (where _all_ possible avenues
>of access to XYZ are blocked or removed) apply to few activities in
>our society.

If you want to break the law then this is undoubtedly the case.

If you think you have had access to anything you want in this country, then you have
led a pretty sheltered existence, or have broken a lot of laws !

david

Newsgroups: aus.aarnet,alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
From: pte900@jatz.aarnet.edu.au (Peter Elford)
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
Subject: Re: AARNet fax gateway
Date: 8 Jan 1993 06:38:57 GMT
Organization: Australian Academic and Research Network
Distribution: world
Reply-To: P.Elford@AARNet.EDU.AU
NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.130.204.4
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Roger Atkinson (atkinson@csuvax1.murdoch.edu.au) wrote:
: I've seen a recent fax from the AVCC, with the header "AARNet FAX Gateway
: (date and time stamp, page no. of no.)", which originated from
: username@server.avcc.edu.au (containing vitally significant advice - new
: Postcode 0200 for ANU).

: Have I missed something? Is there an AARNet fax gateway under trial just at
: the AVCC, or is it being tried elswhere also, or is it about to become
: available to all, or is the fax gateway still some time in the future?

This FAX was generated by some software I cobled together (based on ideas
and original work by Ross Cartlidge and others) that is layered upon the 
Osiris OSFAX FAX gateway product. The OSFAX system allows any UNIX system
to send and receieve FAXes via a modified Meastro FAX-modem connected to
one of the system's async ports. It includes a PostScript interpreter
allowing you to send PostScript documents as FAXes. My code allows email
to 

	special-format-recipient-name@123456789.magic-email-address

to get sent as a FAX to phone number 123456789 with appropriate cover
page and email headers thrown away.

Yes, it would be *easy* to make this a national facility, allowing FAXes
to be sent nationally around Australia for the cost of a local call. It
only requires money to enable resources to be brought to bear to write
up a requirements documents, contract out/appoint someont to do the work,
buy additional UNIX systems and/or copies of the Osiris Software and ZAP!.

What I have done so far is in-my-spare-time work for the use of Geoff and
I, and the AVCC. It is not a general access facility.

--
Peter Elford, Network Co-ordinator, Australian Academic Research Network
Tel: +61 6 249 3542    Fax: +61 6 249 1369    Pager: +61 6 245 3035
Post: GPO Box 1142, Canberra ACT 2601, Australia
Office: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University, Canberra
From: dclunie@pax.tpa.com.au (David Clunie)
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
Subject: Re: CFD: newgroup "aus.censorship", was Re:
Date: 7 Jan 1993 02:32:22 GMT
Organization: Her Master's Voice
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dclunie@pax.tpa.com.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: britt.pax.tpa.com.au

In article 726362350@murillo, summer@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (Mark Summerfield) writes:
>I have no objection -- of course, if I suggested you shouldn't do it I might
>be accused of attempting to censor you :-) 

:)

>One other thing: if this discussion dies down, and there seems to be no
>further interest in the subject of censorship in general (i.e. the group
>ends up idle), will you also take responsibility for rmgrouping it?

Sure. But then who knows when it might come in handy ! How many times has
this discussion gone around ?

david

Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
From: bambi@bu.oz.au (David J. Hughes)
Subject: Re: AARNet fax gateway
Organization: ITS, Bond University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 03:18:34 GMT

pte900@jatz.aarnet.edu.au (Peter Elford) writes:

>So would someone like to operate a network-FAX discussion list ?

I know I'm going to regret this but what the hell, I'm interested in the
topic.  Registration requests to  :-

		netfax-requests@kirk.bu.oz.au  
articles to	netfax@kirk.bu.oz.au


bambi 
   ___                                 David J. Hughes     bambi@bu.oz.au
  /   \                /  /    /        
 /  __/ __   __   ____/  /    / __          Senior Network Programmer
/    \ /  \ /  \ /   /  /    / /  \  /    Comms Development & Operation
\____/ \__//   / \__/   \___/ /   / /       AUSTRALIA  (+61 75 951450)
From: daemon@jatz.aarnet.edu.au ()
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
Subject: ISDN Link to Western Australia
Date: 5 Jan 1993 02:28:29 GMT
Organization: Australian Academic and Research Network (AARNet)
Reply-To: Anne Isherwood <aei@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.130.204.4

The ISDN link from the National Hub to Western Australia went down today 
at approx. 11:38. Telecom have been notified and are investigating.

Anne Isherwood
University of Melbourne

Newsgroups: aus.aarnet,alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
From: hollow@rhea.trl.OZ.AU (John Hollow)
Subject: User-pays quoted in the press
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:53:02 GMT

As one who has not really followed the politics of AARNet funding in great
depth, I was surprised to see a long article "Gallows humour rife as
AARNet goes user-pays" in "The Australian", Mon 4 Jan 1993 p.12.

The start of the article says:  "It all seemed too good to be true - and
in a few months it won't be.  The 'free' Australian Academic Research
Network is to go user-pays!  AARNet's sponsor, the Australian
Vice-Chancellors Committee, was considering the move anyway."

Can anyone clarify?  Is there such a proposal?  If yes, what mechanics of
charging are envisaged?  To what client-base?  (I'm not asking for a
debate on the issues - just a statement of status of current proposals.)

--
John Hollow, Telecom Research Laboratories, PO Box 249, Clayton, Australia 3168
  INTERNET: j.hollow@trl.oz.au              VOICE : +613 253-6400  (03)253-6400
  VAX PSI : psi%050523542100201::j.hollow   FAX   : +613 253-6664  (03)253-6664
  X400:  g=john s=hollow ou=trl o=telecom prmd=telecom006 admd=telememo c=au

Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
From: gja@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au (Grenville Armitage)
Subject: Re: Aarnet should not be pornographic!
Organization: Basket Weavers, Inc.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 22:53:38 GMT

In article <1ibbrfINN2hp@flash.pax.tpa.com.au> dclunie@pax.tpa.com.au writes:
>In article 9737@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU, gja@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au (Grenville Armitage) writes:
>>But so few people in our western society are truely censored.
>>They just whinge that things aren't paid for by others.
>
>Are you serious ? You are an adult right ?

No, I'm a gifted horse. 

>Can you watch a movie in this country 
>that has not been approved by someone else ?
>They actually take bits out and say
>"no I don't think the likes of Grenville should see this" and you never do.
	[..]
>Of course I guess you are not truly censored.

You've missed a perfect analogy. The govt may censor a particular "newsfeed"
(TV, public video libraries, etc) - but I'm still able to get almost any
movie direct from the source on tape, no? So, no I'm not really censored.

	[..]
>But someone has said, "no Grenville should do this, even
>though no-one is being harmed by his actions, regardless of whether they are
>consensual or not".
>
>Of course I guess this is not truly censorship. [..]

No, I consider govt intrusion into consensual arrangements as a problem too.

Of course, if you'd read what I writ, you'd not have got into such a flap.
Much chest beating over censorship is merely about how easy it is to
obtain XYZ documents or material. So few people are truly censored,
because the instances of true censorship (where _all_ possible avenues
of access to XYZ are blocked or removed) apply to few activities in
our society.

gja
From: dclunie@pax.tpa.com.au (David Clunie)
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
Subject: Re: pornography, censorship, etc
Date: 9 Jan 1993 09:05:21 GMT
Organization: Her Master's Voice
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dclunie@pax.tpa.com.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: britt.pax.tpa.com.au

I post this little excerpt from alt.tv.simpsons via alt.censorship to
reply to the poster who said earlier in this thread that we are not really
censored in this country, because we can import things ourselves ...

From: c8923075@mystra.newcastle.edu.au (Chris Baird)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.simpsons
Subject:  Pornography charges against Simpsons Illustrated/Oz are dropped.
Date: 7 Jan 93 13:35:08 GMT

>Customs officials mistakenly identified the package that arrived at
>Sydney airport containing the `bromides' (for those who've yet to see
>one, the films used in the production of the magazine are shipped in a
>container ~90cm x ~90cm x ~9cm) as something used to transport movies.
>And since there was no cinema classification on the declaration,
>everything had be considered by `The Community Protection Group' to
>see if Groening Inc. was attempting to sneak Europe's finest R-rated
>movies into the country...

>It took the CPG a few days to realise Customs had intercepted a
>magazine.  Needless, the editor of SIOz is going to play the incident
>for all its worth. >:)


Its nice to know that what I read and watch is first screened by an organization
that has the gall to call itself "The Community Protection Group".

And I thought it was safe to watch the Simpson's on a sunday night :)

I guess the would-be censors are going to have to add another group to their
hit list now !

david

Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
From: summer@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (Mark Summerfield)
Subject: Re: Aarnet & pornography
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Distribution: aus
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 04:55:04 GMT

ryanph@mrluv2.dsto.oz.au writes:

>I hope that some of you reading these postings - for and against my suggestion
>that Aarnet should not be carrying pornography - widen your reading lists a bit
>to include at least _some_ academic discussions of pornography, and don't just
>assume that the use of womens' bodies is as nothing compared to other crimes
>and vices.

Material which essentially supports the views Phil has expressed:

Anything by Andrea Dworkin -- I have read her novel _Mercy_, and a couple
of articles which I'm afraid I don't have references handy for.  She has
written other novels, and non-fiction.  There was also a documentary about
her on SBS in about September last year; I'm sure SBS could provide details
about whether it's available anywhere.  It was quite good -- it summarised
her views well, and provided plenty of food for thought.
_The Beauty Myth_ by Naomi Wolfe.
_Backlash: the war against women_ by Susan Faludi (I think I've got the
	subtitle right).

"Feminist" material which takes an opposing view:

_Hardcore_ by Linda Williams.
_Sexual Personae: Art and Decadence from Nephetiti to Emily Dickinson_ by
	Camille Paglia.  She's also got a new book out whose title I forget
	but which is currently sitting on the new releases shelves in most
	bookshops.
_Sex Exposed_.  This is an anthology of anti-censorship writings by
	prominent feminists (including Linda Williams).  I think Williams
	is also co-editor, but I'm not sure off the top of my head -- ask
	for it by title.

Anti-feminist garbage:

Anything by Fred Nile, John Singleton, George Bush, the John Hewson joke
book, the Construction-Site-Hard-Hat-Wolf-Whistle-Brigade... :-)

Whilst all of the above is faily "academic", none of it is particularly
esoteric: from the "popular front" as it were.  You should be able to
find all of the titles at any respectable bookshop.

Mark.
          --------------------------------------------------------
              Mark Summerfield,  Photonics Research Laboratory
Department of Electrical and Electronic Engineering, University of Melbourne  
                ACSnet[AARN/Internet]: summer@ee.mu.oz[.au] 
          --------------------------------------------------------
   "This terminal is no more. It has ceased to be. It's expired and gone
    to meet its maker. This is a late terminal. It's a stiff. Bereft of
     life, it rests in peace. If you hadn't nailed it to the bench, it
      would be pushing up the daisies. It's run down the curtain and
            joined the choir invisible. This is an X-Terminal!"
From: daemon@jatz.aarnet.edu.au ()
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
Subject: ISDN Link to Western Australia
Date: 5 Jan 1993 02:28:30 GMT
Organization: Australian Academic and Research Network (AARNet)
Reply-To: Anne Isherwood <aei@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.130.204.4

The ISDN link from the National Hub to Western Australia went down today 
at approx. 11:38. Telecom have been notified and are investigating.

Anne Isherwood
University of Melbourne

Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
From: bambi@bu.oz.au (David J. Hughes)
Subject: Re: CFD: newgroup "aus.censorship", was Re:
Organization: ITS, Bond University
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 05:09:35 GMT

dclunie@pax.tpa.com.au (David Clunie) writes:

>Sure. But then who knows when it might come in handy ! How many times has
>this discussion gone around ?


Now that's an easy question.   Too Many!

Just the facts m'am  :-

	1.  Inclusion or exclusion of services provided by any given
	    service provider are operation decisions made with the aim
	    of providing the best *OVERALL* service possible.

	2.  The service provider in this case is the "owner and
	    operator" of the network  -  the AVCC.

	3.  Nothing is stopping you from negotiating a feed from an OS
	    site and calling them via UUCP to get your missing groups.
	    By doing this, you are directly responsible for *your*
	    expenses and the utilisation of what funding you have.


If I can't get everything I want from McDonalds, I don't expect them to
shuffle their operational funding and resources to cater for me (even if
"me" is a group of people, albeit the vast minority).  I pay them money for 
my burger in the same way institutions pay AARNet membership.  If I don't
like what the good old "Golden Arches" offers I guess I can go down the
road to H.J.'s (or directly fund the making of the "bambi burger").

Same applies here.  Are you generally happy with the services provided
by AARNet?  Would you prefer you didn't have access to the net?  Would
you prefer non-interactive access like the good old days?  Would you
like to put up the extra funding required to extend the service base to
cover your "requirements"?

In short, I, like the vast majority, am happy with the services provided
with the net particularly as the empasized focus of operations is 
legitimate "Academic and Research" activities.


bambi  -  End of soad box mode..
   ___                                 David J. Hughes     bambi@bu.oz.au
  /   \                /  /    /        
 /  __/ __   __   ____/  /    / __          Senior Network Programmer
/    \ /  \ /  \ /   /  /    / /  \  /    Comms Development & Operation
\____/ \__//   / \__/   \___/ /   / /       AUSTRALIA  (+61 75 951450)
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet,alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk