HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bevan@cs.man.ac.uk (Stephen J Bevan)
Newsgroups: comp.editors
Subject: Re: Anyone use SAM?
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:26:41 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester
In-reply-to: oz@ursa.sis.yorku.ca's message of 6 Nov 92 22:09:12 GMT

In article <OZ.92Nov6170912@ursa.sis.yorku.ca> oz@ursa.sis.yorku.ca (Ozan Yigit) writes:
   Neil Weisenfeld writes:
      Is anyone using Sam? ...

   Yes, many of us picked it up from the toolchest sometime ago. Nice to see
   that it is now available to public at large.

I don't want to start a war here, but why do people like Sam?  I've
tried it out and although I think the file as a stream (no newlines)
is a good idea and the undo is excellent, I don't actually like using
it.  Specifically, the reliance on the mouse for almost all operations
drives me nuts.  Given that Pike thought long and hard about the
design, I can only assume I'm one of the great unwashed who hasn't
seen the light yet.  So to speed me along would anybody care to
explain why they think the interface is good?

Email is fine if you have visions of a public debate degenerating into
a flame war.

bevan
From: jeffb@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Jeff Bartig)
Newsgroups: comp.editors
Subject: Re: Brief info?
Date: 9 Nov 1992 19:04:35 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: inet
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Keywords: Brief

In article <1992Nov5.044314.3063@ve3ied.UUCP> bduncan@ve3ied.UUCP (Bill Duncan) writes:
>
>I don't know, but am very curious too!  I have been a Brief user since v0.98,
>probably around 10 years ago now.  Borland also got the "Sorcerer's Apprentice"
>with the deal too of course.  I haven't seen it advertized since the buyout.

I was on Borland's BBS recently and saw an area for something called
the Borland Version Tracker.  I believe this is what they renamed
Sorcerer's Apprentice too.  I checked with Borland, and it will be
released in Feb 93.

I just got a copy of Brief from Borland.  Does anyone know where I
can find a set of macros to make it emulate vi?  I found two different
ones on Borland's bbs, but one wouldn't compile and the other had
bugs.

Jeff

-- 
Jeff Bartig, Dept Programmer | Office: (608) 262-5631
UW-Madison Psychology Dept   | Fax:    (608) 262-4029
1202 W. Johnson St, Rm B29   |
Madison, WI 53706-1611       | E-Mail: jeffb@merlin.psych.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: hansm@cs.kun.nl (Hans Mulder)
Subject: Re: How to store tabstop in vi permanently??
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 11:37:44 GMT

In <1992Nov12.000116.23736@kpc.com> hollasch@kpc.com (Steve Hollasch) writes:
>    I strongly recommend that you leave tabstops at the default 8 spaces,
>since the convention for printers, tty devices, and just about everything
>else in the world interprets a tab character as 8 spaces.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

>    Instead, change the "shiftwidth" setting in vi to whatever indentation
>level you want (I use 4).  Then you use ^T and ^D in vi to indent and
>unindent, respectively.

>    To do this, you can either include

>        setenv EXRC "set sw=4"

Shouldn't that be EXINIT?

[ For those of use who use the One True Shell, the syntax is
	
	EXINIT="set sw=4"; export EXINIT

and the file is named .profile .]

>or you can create a file called .exrc in your home directory with the line

>        set sw=4


If you insist on using the TAB key to indent, add a line looking somewhat like:

	map! ^V		^T

What you actually type is:

	m a p ! space ctrl-V ctrl-V ctrl-V tab space ctrl-V ctrl-T 

This makes the TAB key behave like ^T in input mode.
Type ctrl-V tab to get a real tab if you need one.

>I recommend the .exrc file, because it's much easier to add macros and other
>settings to this file.

Agreed.

>vi will use this file unless there's a .exrc file in the current directory
>(so you can have other vi settings for a certain directory).

Are you sure?  Most versions of vi read both the .exrc file in the home
directory, and the one in the current directory (even if the current
directory IS the home directory).

--
Hope this helps,

Hans Mulder			hansm@cs.kun.nl
From: walker@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com (Rick Walker)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:45:51 GMT
Subject: new HELP macro for vi
Organization: HP Labs, High Speed Electronics Dept., Palo Alto, CA
From: wolff@inf.fu-berlin.de (Thomas Wolff)
Newsgroups: comp.editors
Subject: Re: VI??? GROSS!
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:20:27 GMT
Organization: Free University of Berlin, Germany

rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo) writes:

>9118543@sunvax.sun.ac.za writes:
>>Is there no better editor for UNIX than VI?
>>I mean... what happened to the good old full screen ones?
>>Cheers
>>Christ

>psst.  vi is full screen; also, the relative 'goodness' of an
>editor depends on what you're trying to do.  For instance, if
>you're trying to have a completely integrated one-program
>environment that reads news and everything, check out gnuemacs.
>If you can't stand these fancy newfangled "tools", use cat.
>If you live modally, vi is for you.

Full screen: in some sense, vi is. But not screen-oriented. Changing 
or inserting text and not seeing the result unless a finish key is 
pressed is certainly not the behaviour I would wish from an interactive 
editor - it reminds a lot of old batch-time editing programs.
Vi is a line editor with on-screen display. Actually, I wouldn't even 
call it a text editor since (according to some recent discussion in this 
group) it is not even capable of performing one of the most elementary 
text editing tasks: marking an arbitrary (!) block of text and by some 
means copying or moving it to another place.
As a reaction to my moroseness about the apparent unavailability of a 
simple text editor for Unix and the monstrous complexity and slowness 
of the only widely spread alternative (emacs), I captured the source 
of a freely available editor and turned it into a safe, fast, and easy 
to use text editor. (I also announced it to this group some time ago.)
It is available by ftp from ftp.fu-berlin.de [130.133.4.50]:
/pub/unix/editor/mined.tar.Z (108841 bytes)
/pub/pc/editor/mined_pc.zip (114522 bytes)

Thomas
wolff@inf.fu-berlin.de
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: weisen@daedalus.dcrt.nih.gov (Neil Weisenfeld)
Subject: Anyone use SAM?
Organization: National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:51:18 GMT


Does anyone use Sam?  After reading a little about it here, I picked up
the papers and built the editor.  In fact, I'm using it to type this
note.  While it certainly seems like a ``Vi for the 90's,'' I don't
think that I'm going to switch over from Vi for program editing.  The
main reason is that there are just some features of Vi that I use
constantly that are not here like tag searching and the tag stack.  I
also wouldn't mind having auto-indent and something akin to a
``shift-width.''  Word wrap would be nice, too, but I can always do
what I do now: pipe everything through fmt when I'm done.  If these few
features were added, I'd probably switch over even without any macro
capabilities (not that Mr. Pike is anxiously awaiting my switch).  I
think I am going to use it for text and document editing as it stands.

Is anyone using Sam?  Is anyone working on extending it?


Regards,
Neil
--
Neil I. Weisenfeld                    National Institutes of Health
Computer Engineer                     Building 12A, Room 2033
weisen@alw.nih.gov                    Bethesda, MD 20892
uunet!nih-csl!weisen                  phone: (301) 402-2788
From: Iain.Lea%anl433.uucp@Germany.EU.net (Iain Lea)
Newsgroups: comp.editors
Subject: Re: vile vs xvi, has anybody compared them already?
Date: 5 Nov 92 10:40:09 GMT
Reply-To: Iain.Lea%anl433.uucp@Germany.EU.net
Organization: ANL A433, Siemens AG., Germany.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 Beta PL7]

Alex Martelli (martelli@cadlab.sublink.org) wrote:

: - in xvi.h, the lines:
: #   ifdef   hpux
: #   	define	USE_STDHDRS
: #   endif   /* sparc */

Use __hpux when compiling HP-UX code.

Iain

--
NAMES  Iain Lea    Iain.Lea%anl433.uucp@Germany.EU.net
SNAIL  Siemens AG, ANL A433SZ, Gruendlacher Str. 248, 8510 Fuerth, Germany.
PHONE  +49-911-3089-407 (work) +49-911-331963 (home) +49-911-3089-290 (FAX)  
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo)
Subject: Re: VI??? GROSS!
Followup-To: comp.editors
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 23:25:30 GMT

wolff@inf.fu-berlin.de (Thomas Wolff) writes:
>rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo) writes:
>
>>psst.  vi is full screen; also, the relative 'goodness' of an
>>editor depends on what you're trying to do.  For instance, if
>>you're trying to have a completely integrated one-program
>>environment that reads news and everything, check out gnuemacs.
>>If you can't stand these fancy newfangled "tools", use cat.
>>If you live modally, vi is for you.
>
>Full screen: in some sense, vi is. But not screen-oriented. Changing 
>or inserting text and not seeing the result unless a finish key is 
>pressed is certainly not the behaviour I would wish from an interactive 
>editor - it reminds a lot of old batch-time editing programs.

Have you used vi?  When you change or insert text, what you see is
what you get.  Your edits immediately affect the text you change or
insert. 

>Vi is a line editor with on-screen display. Actually, I wouldn't even 
>call it a text editor since (according to some recent discussion in this 
>group) it is not even capable of performing one of the most elementary 
>text editing tasks: marking an arbitrary (!) block of text and by some 
>means copying or moving it to another place.

I don't know what discussion in this group you read, but something was
clearly lost in the translation process between screen and brain.  You
have a variety of options available to you as far as cutting and pasting
goes in vi.  You can use, for instance, 'm'ark and 'y'ank and 'p'ut.  Have
you used vi, or looked at an actual description of the editor?

>As a reaction to my moroseness about the apparent unavailability of a 
>simple text editor for Unix and the monstrous complexity and slowness 
>of the only widely spread alternative (emacs), I captured the source 
>of a freely available editor and turned it into a safe, fast, and easy 
>to use text editor. (I also announced it to this group some time ago.)
>It is available by ftp from ftp.fu-berlin.de [130.133.4.50]:
>/pub/unix/editor/mined.tar.Z (108841 bytes)
>/pub/pc/editor/mined_pc.zip (114522 bytes)

It's good that people are still writing editors -- heck, I'm doing it
myself -- but don't post treatises on editors that you obviously don't
know about in order to hype your own.

>Thomas
>wolff@inf.fu-berlin.de
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Felix Sebastian Gallo                              rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: zchen@phys.ksu.edu (Zheng Chen)
Newsgroups: comp.editors
Subject: Re: VI??? GROSS!
Date: 13 Nov 1992 20:39:51 GMT
Organization: Department of Physics, Kansas State University, Manhattan KS, USA
Distribution: inet
NNTP-Posting-Host: kelvin.phys.ksu.edu

In article <Z8U84BL@math.fu-berlin.de> wolff@inf.fu-berlin.de (Thomas Wolff) writes:
>Most repliers to my posting seem to be that well accustomed to the fact 
>that vi is a line editor that they didn't see my point when I wrote 
>"arbitrary (!) block of text" (well, maybe "block" was misleading). This 
>is not a block of lines (which is the unit of most vi operations) and 
>since I referred to "elementary text editing tasks" I didn't mean columns 
>either. Suppose I have the lines
>	word1 word2 word1
>	word3 word4 word3
>and I need the text from "word2 " up to "word4" (assume it's a sentence) 
>to be copied or moved elsewhere.If an editor cannot do this with a 
>simple command sequence (and without the search trick burdening me with 
>the task of counting the occurences of the word following my sentence 
>within my sentence, if it can be done that way at all), I just do not 
>call it a text editor.
>Have a nice week-end.
>Thomas
>wolff@inf.fu-berlin.de




This is easily done by first moving the cursor to the beginning of
word2, type mx (where x can be any character), then move the cursor to
the end of word4, type y`x to yank the block. Now you move the cursor
to the place you want to put and type p. Is that easy? I learned this
not very long ago.  As for dealing with blocks, Maurice can even tell
you how to move the block (a real rectangle)
        word2 word1
        word4 word3
to some place you like to put them. Isn't that amazing? I know no
editor which can do this. BTW, Maurice, do you mind to post that little
program mxy to the net? I find it very useful.

I just begin to really appreciate the usefulness of vi, thanks for the
help from this news group. This is probably a good chance for me to
thank those who helped me in the past. In fact, vi can do much more
things than one can think about. You really have to work with it to
appreciate. I used to work with many editors. For me, vi is the one to
stay. Well, everybody has his/her own taste. That's how we are made
of.


Zheng Chen

--

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zheng Chen
zchen@phys.ksu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: michael@chpc.utexas.edu (Michael Lemke)
Subject: Re: VI??? GROSS!
Organization: The University of Texas System - CHPC
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 19:58:45 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.192831.29277@cs.wisc.edu> cheevers@wolf.cs.wisc.edu (John Cheevers) writes:
>mikeg@asylum.tmc.edu (Michael Grabenstein) writes:
>>	Moving columns around??? What editor will unless it is a 
>>word processor that can do columns, then its easy. But in vi
>>my suggestions would be to use a seperate named buffer for each
>>line in the column and then place and join. (vi command for
> ^^^^ word?
>>getting jsut characters:  "ayl  a is the same as above and yl is
>>yank letters, getting easier? :)
>
>This could give you problems with lining up columns.
>An easier way is to pipe the paragraph through awk:
>
>	!} awk '{ printf "\%10s\%10s\%20s\n", $3, $2, $1}'
>
>    or  :10,14 ! awk '{ printf "\%10s\%10s\%20s\n", $3, $2, $1}'
>

Oh boy!  And this you call a screen editor?  (That was what started the 
thread).


-- 
Michael Lemke
Astronomy, UT Austin, Texas
(michael@io.as.utexas.edu or UTSPAN::UTADNX::IO::MICHAEL [SPAN])
From: ep3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Manos Papatheofanous)
Newsgroups: comp.editors
Subject: Re: How to store tabstop in vi permanently??
Date: 12 Nov 1992 16:05:10 -0000
Organization: Department of Computing, Imperial College, University of London, UK.
Distribution: inet
NNTP-Posting-Host: finch.doc.ic.ac.uk

In article <1992Nov12.000116.23736@kpc.com> hollasch@kpc.com (Steve Hollasch) writes:
>    To do this, you can either include
>
>        setenv EXRC "set sw=4"

Shouldn't that be EXINIT?

Manos.
-- 
Manos D Papatheofanous   - Email: ep3@doc.ic.ac.uk
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: rbt@tous.oau.org (Robert B. Tate)
Subject: Re: Brief info?
Keywords: Brief
Organization: Tate Enterprises
Distribution: inet
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 02:30:30 GMT

In article <1dmco3INNn0j@uwm.edu> jeffb@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Jeff Bartig) writes:
>In article <1992Nov5.044314.3063@ve3ied.UUCP> bduncan@ve3ied.UUCP (Bill Duncan) writes:
>>
>>I don't know, but am very curious too!  I have been a Brief user since v0.98,
>>probably around 10 years ago now.  Borland also got the "Sorcerer's Apprentice"
>>with the deal too of course.  I haven't seen it advertized since the buyout.
>
>I was on Borland's BBS recently and saw an area for something called
>the Borland Version Tracker.  I believe this is what they renamed
>Sorcerer's Apprentice too.  I checked with Borland, and it will be
>released in Feb 93.
>
>I just got a copy of Brief from Borland.  Does anyone know where I
>can find a set of macros to make it emulate vi?  I found two different
>ones on Borland's bbs, but one wouldn't compile and the other had
>bugs.
>

I know about the Compuserve BBS (I'm not a member anymore), but what is
this other BBS number? I would like to see what is out there for BRIEF.


-- 
 rbt@tous.OAU.ORG  (Robert B. Tate)       | A little knowledge is a dangerous
 {ucf-cs,peora,tarpit}!tous!rbt           | thing. Any less can kill you.
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: rouben@math9.math.umbc.edu (Rouben Rostamian)
Subject: Re: VI??? GROSS!
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus, Academic Computing Services
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 22:37:40 GMT

In article <Z8U84BL@math.fu-berlin.de> wolff@inf.fu-berlin.de (Thomas Wolff) writes:
>Most repliers to my posting seem to be that well accustomed to the fact 
>that vi is a line editor that they didn't see my point when I wrote 
>"arbitrary (!) block of text" (well, maybe "block" was misleading). This 
>is not a block of lines (which is the unit of most vi operations) and 
>since I referred to "elementary text editing tasks" I didn't mean columns 
>either. Suppose I have the lines
>	word1 word2 word1
>	word3 word4 word3
>and I need the text from "word2 " up to "word4" (assume it's a sentence) 
>to be copied or moved elsewhere.If an editor cannot do this with a 
>simple command sequence (and without the search trick burdening me with 
>the task of counting the occurences of the word following my sentence 
>within my sentence, if it can be done that way at all), I just do not 
>call it a text editor.

I think you are underestimating vi.  To copy or move a range, such as
the charcters from "word2" up to "word4" in your example:

1) move to the beginnning of the range
2) mark the position, say m
3) move the the end of the range
4a) To delete the range, do d`m   [That's a grave accent, not an apostrophe.]
4b) To yank the range, do y`m
4c) To copy the range, first yank or delete as needed, move to the
    desired place and do p.

Simple enough?

It's true that vi is not perfect, but it comes damn close.
You may want to learn vi first before becoming a critic.

>Have a nice week-end.
>Thomas
>wolff@inf.fu-berlin.de

You too.

--
Rouben Rostamian
From: william@castle.ed.ac.uk (William Warburton)
Newsgroups: comp.editors
Subject: Help wanted with sed.
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:09:46 GMT
Reply-To: W.Warburton@ed.ac.uk
Organization: Edinburgh University Computing Service

Hi,
	Can anyone tell me how to get sed to copy more than two lines
into the pattern space? I want to get the pattern space to include
about 5-30 lines and then write it out to one of two files according to
the last part of the pattern. I envisage something like this:

/start_of_context/,/end_of_context/N
/.*\nLastLine/w out_file_1
/.*\nLastLine/!w out_file_2

 However the first line of the program just joins pairs of lines.
I have managed to get three lines joined by using N twice but I can't
work out how to extend this for the general case.

 Help!

Thanks for your advice,

		W.

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
From: takefuji@donald.EEAP.CWRU.Edu (Yoshiyasu Takefuji)
Newsgroups: comp.internet.library
Subject: Conference on Electronic Delivery (USA)
Date: 13 Nov 1992 16:10:45 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Electrical Engineering, CWRU, Cleve. OH
NNTP-Posting-Host: donald.eeap.cwru.edu

From susanlim@iti.gov.sg Thu Nov 12 21:50:19 1992
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From: susanlim@iti.gov.sg (Susan Lim Siew Chin)
Subject: Conference on Electronic Delivery (USA)
Message-Id: <1992Nov13.024532.16270@iti.gov.sg>
Organization: Information Technology Institute, National Computer Board, Singapo
re.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 02:45:32 GMT
rently-To: uunetomp-internet-library
Status: RO

I am looking for details of a Conference on Electronic Delivery which is to be
held in USA later this year or early next year.  Would appreciate it very
much if you could let me have any info on such a conference.

Cheers,

Susan Lim
From: takefuji@donald.EEAP.CWRU.Edu (Yoshiyasu Takefuji)
Newsgroups: comp.internet.library
Subject: Re: Encyclopedia on online internet?
Date: 13 Nov 1992 16:14:44 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Electrical Engineering, CWRU, Cleve. OH
NNTP-Posting-Host: donald.eeap.cwru.edu

From pmilbur@eis.CalState.EDU Fri Nov 13 00:36:54 1992
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Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,comp.internet.library
From: pmilbur@eis.CalState.EDU (Peter Milbury)
Subject: Re: Is there an online Internet Encyclopedia?
Message-Id: <Bxn3GH.Dot@eis.calstate.edu>
Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 05:33:53 GMT
Apparently-To: comp-internet-library@uunet.uu.net
Status: RO

rsquires%cyclops.eece.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Roger Squires) writes:
> Is there an online encyclopedia available for telnetting
> somewhere?  I've used the America Online Encyclopedia,
> and it was so juvenile and incomplete as to be useless.
> If someone knows of one, this would be a great service...
>
> Roger Squires
> rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu

You might try logging on via telnet to the W&L Law Library.

Telnet>  liberty.uc.wlu.edu       Login:  lawlib

Once online, search forward /encyclopedia

and it should take you to one.

Peter
From: takefuji@huey.EEAP.CWRU.Edu (Yoshiyasu Takefuji)
Newsgroups: comp.internet.library
Subject: Encyclopedia on online internet?
Date: 6 Nov 1992 16:18:49 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Electrical Engineering, CWRU, Cleve. OH
NNTP-Posting-Host: huey.eeap.cwru.edu

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,comp.internet.library
From: rsquires%cyclops.eece.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Roger Squires)
Subject: Is there an online Internet Encyclopedia?
Message-Id: <vw_q1ma@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 21:51:05 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Apparently-To: comp-internet-library@ftp.uu.net
Status: RO

Is there an online encyclopedia available for telnetting
somewhere?  I've used the America Online Encyclopedia,
and it was so juvenile and incomplete as to be useless.
If someone knows of one, this would be a great service...

Roger Squires
rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu
From: dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter)
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Subject: Re: A question about the i860
Date: 7 Nov 92 02:51:56 GMT
Organization: CWI, Amsterdam

In article <1992Nov4.030913.27451@labtam.labtam.oz.au> graeme@labtam.labtam.oz.au (Graeme Gill) writes:
 > 	Its worth taking a look at the Motorola 88110 since it is a 64 bit
 > bus superscalar processor with a good collection of graphics specific
 > instructions. It looks like it should be a lot easier to program than
 > the 860 as well.
What processor isn't?  (Yes, I did and do program i860's in assembler.)
-- 
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj  amsterdam, nederland
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn  amsterdam, nederland; e-mail: dik@cwi.nl
Newsgroups: comp.arch