HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: EFTPOS
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 13:38:56 +1000

 Even better, you could pick up the abandoned ATM receipt, take a guess
at the expiry date, read the account number, calculate the checksum and
WRITE your own copy of their card ! (All they use is a normal stereo
tape head !).....Even write 10 copies of the card so you can have a few
tries.....
                                Bruce.


 * Origin: John Knox ARC Melbourne Aus. (613) 521 1206 (3:635/543)
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: greyham@research.canon.oz.au (Graham Stoney)
Subject: Re: 11-11-92
Organization: Canon Information Systems Research Australia
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 03:38:31 GMT

Gary.Woodman@anu.edu.au (Gary Woodman) writes:
>"They shall not grow old, as we who are left grow old.
>Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn."

It's "They shall grow, not old, ...", not "They shall not grow old, ...".
The meaning is quite different.

regs,
Graham
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: c8922369@jupiter.newcastle.edu.au (Leon James Garde)
Subject: Re: 11-11-92
Organization: Uni of Newcastle, Australia
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:26:56 GMT

stuarta@syd.dms.CSIRO.AU (Stuart Andrews) writes:


>> Today marks the day why Australia should be a republic.
>> Commiserations to one and all.

>WOW! Wacko! There's one born every minute methinks!

So, true ... one wonders what would have been if it were 
that we were a republic back then ... bad things happen to good people,
(just because.)
etc etc.
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: srini@berry.fcit.monash.edu.au (Dr B Srinivasan)
Subject: Info on Australian Finite Element Conference
Summary: I need the information (or call for papers) about the Australian Finite
Keywords: Finite Element Conf in Australia
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 04:31:52 GMT

I like to know the call for papers information about the
next Australian Finite Element Confernence.

Email the info to srini@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au

thanks in advance
From: s900387@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Craig Macbride)
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: Re: I wish petrol were taxed more
Date: 11 Nov 92 07:39:04 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au

conrad@pico.qpsx.oz.au (Conrad Drake) writes:

>An attempt to produce a city that doesn't require people to travel 50km+
                                           ^^^^^^^
> per day would have far more "merit".  

>Let's face it, the 1/4 acre block and hills-hoist ethic was, is, and
>will always be a pipe dream in the context of CBD's containing over a
>million workers.  

The reality of this is that no city should "require" people to travel
anything like 50+ km per day. I moved to be in the same suburb in which
I work and I would move again if my workplace were to shift more than
about 5km from here.

Notice how low the price of inner-city office space is in Melbourne? Lots
of people have finally realised that there are very few advantages to
running offices in the city. If the employers move to the suburbs and
employ people who are (or move to be) mainly in the same area, this whole
silly situation of people driving ludicrous distances every day can be
avoided without any of the nasty methods (taxing petrol, higher-density
living) mentioned in this discussion so far.

-- 
 _--_|\		Craig Macbride	<lhscmc@luxor.latrobe.edu.au>
/      \			<s900387@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au>
\_.--.*/
      v
From: ina_pearce@actew.oz.au
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: Re: I wish petrol were taxed more
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:21:29 EST
Followup-To: aus.followup
Distribution: aus
Organization: ACT Electricity & Water

In article <Gary.Woodman.814.721279807@anu.edu.au>, Gary.Woodman@anu.edu.au (Gary Woodman) writes:
> In article <1992Nov6.161750.107@actew.oz.au> ina_pearce@actew.oz.au writes:
> 
>>this has forced me to use public transport even though it only takes me 10
>>minutes to drive to work but 35 minutes (plus wating time) by bus. But I just
>>cannot afford to pay $4 a day to park in town.
> 
> You could try a motorbike - easy (generally free) to park, no waiting, fun & 
> games generally. Except in winter, which is not much fun at the best of 
> times, but is it any worse than standing in the rain waiting for a bus?
> 
> --
> Gary.Woodman@anu.edu.au         This post made from 100% recycled electrons.

you forgot to add very economical. I do have a bike license and used to ride
for years when I lived in Sydney.

as you pointed out it was a pain in the ass in the rain and especially hail,
but you forgot to add the constant watching out for idiot car drivers who
refuse to look or obey the simplest road rules (and I'm not one of the idiot
bike-riders who tail-gates, rides in the blind-spot etc).

also being so cold here in Canberra (and with such unpredictable weather) it
does restrict when you can ride a bike to a very short period of the year.

Drew.
Xref: sparky aus.general:2121 aus.politics:1740
Newsgroups: aus.general,aus.politics
Subject: Re: Vic Ministers Get $20,000 pay rise.
From: mjp@itd.dsto.gov.au
Date: 5 Nov 92 09:15:21 CST
Followup-To: aus.followup
 <1992Nov1.032511.27302@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> 
 <alanf.720768884@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au> <1992Nov3.105446.4163@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>
Distribution: aus
Keywords: ministerial salaries

suter@fawlty8.eng.monash.edu.au (Mr D. Suter) writes:

>I really can't believe that intelligent "socialists" can't understand
>that this is the inevitable long term effect of indulging your
>social compassion and simply borrowing money on behalf of
>the poor souls you claim to be protecting. It's exactly akin
>to advising someone on the breadline to live on bankcard without
>considering that they will be FAR worse off a few years later
>when the debt and interest has accumulated. Unfortunately,
>such simple economics appears not in Cain or Kirners grasp.

I happen to agree with this with some provisos.
Firstly you have to take into account the true cost to the
economy of not helping the poor (a marraige breakup costs
the community over 60k, increased crime, law enforcement,
prisons, lack of productivity) which can be very expensive
and are certainly totally unproductive. It is cheaper to pay
unemployment (especially since people on subsistence put it
all back into the economy straight away and so unemployment
benifits prevents further job loss flowon effects) than to
pay for the costs of ensuing social dislocation. Also there
are times when borrowing money does make sense e.g.
borrowing to build an efficient railway system that will
save you a lot more in the future. I couldn't think of
anything worse than preventing borrowings, the problem is
having borrowings for things that don't make a long term
improvement.

Given that what you call social compassion is also
economically sound, the economically sound thing to do is to
fund it as needed or from surpluses which is why the tax
cuts (in this already 3rd lowest taxed country in the world)
offed in One Nation and Fightback are grossly irresponsible.

Michael

--
Michael Pilling				Phone: +61 8 259 7017
Software Engineering Group		Fax: +61 8 259 5980
Information Technology Division		Telex: AA82799
DSTO Australia				michael_pilling@itd.dsto.gov.au
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: djk@bby.com.au (David Keegel)
Subject: Re: I wish petrol were taxed more
Organization: Burdett, Buckeridge & Young Ltd., Melbourne, Australia
Distribution: aus
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 08:27:28 GMT

u8706558@cs.uow.edu.au (Sean Volke) writes:

] >|> Sydney to Wollongong (75k each way) every day. It's a 2-hour round
] >|> trip by car, 6 hours by public transport, and who knows how long by 

] 		15 minute walk to station,
] 		40 minute train trip Bankstown to Central
] 		1.5 hours train trip Central to Wollongong
] 		20 minute walk station to uni.

If you are a Uni student, doesn't this mean your have over 4 hours of
study time built in to your day?  If you can spend the train time
doing reading etc which you would otherwise have had to do at home,
the train doesn't look so bad.  And on top of that you get an hour
per day of exercise!

Of course, you also have to get up two hours earlier than by car. :-(
-- 
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| David Keegel   <djk@bby.com.au>   Ph: +61 3 614-8922   Fax: +61 3 614-8742 |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: s900387@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Craig Macbride)
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: Re: I wish petrol were taxed more
Date: 12 Nov 92 09:41:57 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au

daniel@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Daniel Bowen) writes:

>For instance, when Coles-Myer moved out of
>Melbourne to Toronga, the numbers of people commuting by car shot up,
>and the numbers by public transport fell.

I can understand that. Toronga is a hopeless position for public transport:
the nearest thing is the 72 tram route, which I can testify from the 10
years I lived in Camberwell, is one of the slowest and more unreliable
routes in the whole system. Meanwhile, the SE Arterial is nearby.

Of more importance than the _number_ of people travelling to Toronga by
car is how _far_ they were travelling. The centre of the Melbourne metro
area, in a population sense, is in Camberwell, so on average the Coles-
Myer staff's distance from work probably dropped dramatically. Of course,
if those who live in the Western and Northern suburbs move closer, the
effect would be excellent.

-- 
 _--_|\		Craig Macbride	<lhscmc@luxor.latrobe.edu.au>
/      \			<s900387@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au>
\_.--.*/
      v
From: anita@devvax.mincom.oz.au (Anita Graham)
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: Re: I wish petrol were taxed more
Date: 12 Nov 92 02:26:37 GMT
Followup-To: aus.followup
Distribution: aus
Organization: Mincom

In article <1dqdaoINN79k@escargot.xx.rmit.OZ.AU>, s900387@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Craig Macbride) writes:
> 
> Notice how low the price of inner-city office space is in Melbourne? Lots
> of people have finally realised that there are very few advantages to
> running offices in the city. If the employers move to the suburbs and
> employ people who are (or move to be) mainly in the same area, this whole
> silly situation of people driving ludicrous distances every day can be
> avoided without any of the nasty methods (taxing petrol, higher-density
> living) mentioned in this discussion so far.
> 
Good point, but what about households where more than one person works.
Their employers may have offices a long way from each other so at least one
person would have to travel. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anita Graham
anita@mincom.oz.au
From: Gary.Woodman@anu.edu.au (Gary Woodman)
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: Re: 11-11-92
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 01:19:59 GMT
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.5.23

In article <1992Nov11.072840.9561@cs.uow.edu.au> u8706558@cs.uow.edu.au (Sean Volke) writes:

>Today marks the day why Australia should be a republic.
>Commiserations to one and all.

"In Flanders fields the poppies grow,
Between the crosses, row on row."

Quoted from memory, on the cover of a book I saw a week or so ago. Guess I 
should go back and get the attribution... the poem was written in 1915, BTW.

What? Wrong year? Sorry, gang. I have a poppy clipped to the side of my 
monitor, I bet Gough wore one too, and Malcolm for that matter.

"They shall not grow old, as we who are left grow old.
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn."

--
Gary.Woodman@anu.edu.au         This post made from 100% recycled electrons.
From: brendan@otc.otca.oz (Brendan Jones)
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: Re: I wish petrol were taxed more
Date: 5 Nov 92 22:07:28 GMT

timbomb@cs.uq.oz.au (Tim Mansfield) writes:
>As long as the tram/train/bus whatever is frequent and regular, there's very 
>little excuse for using a car. In many cities in the world (London, Paris,
>New York), people only use cars when travelling out of town.

Yes, these cities do have very good public transport.  They also (as someone
else pointed out) have much higher population densites than any Australian
city.

However, the statement "people only use cars when travelling out of town" in
these cities is blatantly untrue.  When I was in London a month ago their city
traffic jams looked as bad as anything I had ever seen in Australia - and they
certainly didn't look like they were all "travelling out of town" (11 am on a
Thursday??)

Even Hong Kong, which charges *incredibly* high registration fees (ca. A$2000
per year) on cars has pretty atrocious traffic jams, but an incredibly good
underground railway system (trains every 30 to 45 seconds at peak hours) which
is not surprising since they fit twice the population of Sydney into an area
one-fifth the size.

Unfortunately the problem is not a one dimensional car/public transport
tradeoff, otherwise it'd be easy to solve.

-- 
Brendan Jones  | ACSnet:  brendan@otc.otca.oz.au               | This space
R&D Contractor |   UUCP:  {uunet,mcvax}!otc.otca.oz.au!brendan | for lease
Network Access |  Phone:  (02)287-3128    Fax:  (02)287-3299   | pending new
|||| OTC ||    |  Snail:  GPO Box 7000 Sydney 2001, AUSTRALIA  | .sig
From: scott@psy.uwa.oz.au (Scott Fisher)
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: Re: I wish petrol were taxed more
Date: 6 Nov 1992 01:21:35 GMT
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: wapsy.psy.uwa.oz.au

I don't think I have seen this mentioned.  What about people in the country?
I know they are only 25% of the population, but not too many country towns 
have a public transport system.  I don't think the farmers would be too happy 
either.  

Scott.
Newsgroups: aus.general,monash.general
From: anthony@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Anthony Baxter)
Subject: Re: 1992 Australian MicroMouse Contest
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Distribution: aus
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 05:16:11 GMT

In <jwb.720829632@capek.rdt.monash.edu.au> jwb@capek.rdt.monash.edu.au (Jim Breen) writes:



>(d) successfully move from the maze start to the goal square (i.e. solve
>the maze) (48%)

>Two of the teams had set themselves the limited (b) and (c) goals on the 
>day, but most set out to attempt all stages. It was clear from the
>beginning that the mice with overhanging sensor arrays were going to fare
>better than those with the more challenging sideways sensors. None of this
>latter group actually reached the goal, although one only crashld a few
>squares away, and was awarded a (d) achievement.

Much as I hate to contradict my own head of department :-) this is
incorrect. Magellan, with its 6 side looking sensors, solved the maze
easily, although the herringbone (*) caused a few nervous moments.

Anthony

(*) A herringbone is a setup like this

   +  +  +  +  +  +
   |  |  |  |  |  |
   +  +  +  +  +  +
 ================>
   +  +  +  +  +  +
   |  |  |  |  |  |
   +  +  +  +  +  +

The mouse has to run along the === path, and so has no side walls to correct
off.

-- 
           anthony baxter                  rdt : anthony@rdt.monash.edu.au.
 gaunix : anthony@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au.  work : anthony@aaii.oz.au
     digital technology  /  general access unix group  /  a a i i
           monash university     melbourne,  australia
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: als@bohra.cpg.oz.au (Anthony Shipman)
Subject: Re: I wish petrol were taxed more
Organization: Computer Power Software
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 05:00:53 GMT

farrell@coral.cs.jcu.edu.au (John Farrell) writes:

>In <chrisp.720868071@kultarr> chrisp@cs.uwa.oz.au (chris pudney) writes:
>>Most of the vehicles on the roads are cars transporting (<=2) people.  
>>If we eliminated these, such that mainly bulk vehicles, buses and trucks,  
>>were on the roads then we'd have far less traffic.

>  Hmm. People say this a lot. But if I am the only person in the city who
>wants to go from Uni to Pallarenda (learn some Townsville geography folks),
>then it is damn difficult to convince me to use public transport to do it as
>there is none. I think we should remember that private cars are the most
>efficient form of public transport for low volume routes :-).


This is right and proper.  Private transport is the only general solution for
getting from A to B.  Public transport should be used as an optimisation
technique for improving the efficiency on heavily travelled routes.

People who try to penalise private transport in order to force people to
use public transport are implicitly admitting the failure of public transport
to provide an attractive (ie useful) alternative.


-- 
Anthony Shipman                 "You've got to be taught before it's too late,
CP Software Export Pty Ltd,      Before you are six or seven or eight,
19 Cato St., East Hawthorn,      To hate all the people your relatives hate,
Melbourne, Australia, 3121       You've got to be carefully taught."  R&H
Xref: sparky aus.general:2126 aus.politics:1745
From: conrad@pico.qpsx.oz.au (Conrad Drake)
Newsgroups: aus.general,aus.politics
Subject: Re: Vic Ministers Get $20,000 pay rise.
Date: 6 Nov 92 07:05:36 GMT
Reply-To: conrad@pico.qpsx.oz.au
Distribution: aus
Organization: QPSX Communications
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

suter@fawlty8.eng.monash.edu.au (Mr D. Suter) writes:
: 
: I really can't believe that intelligent "socialists" can't understand
: that this is the inevitable long term effect of indulging your
: social compassion and simply borrowing money on behalf of
: the poor souls you claim to be protecting. It's exactly akin
: to advising someone on the breadline to live on bankcard without
: considering that they will be FAR worse off a few years later
: when the debt and interest has accumulated. Unfortunately,
: such simple economics appears not in Cain or Kirners grasp.

Dear David,
   It was my understanding, through the media, that the huge debts of
the Victorian Govt. are primarily the result of the failed business
dealings of the '80s, and in particular, TriCo.  

These sad tales of deception and inexplicable conduct resulted directly
from the "economic rationalist" policies (a.k.a survival of the
richest), not from any bleeding-heart socialist policies. Certainly,
basic economics was abandonned, but only in the interests of
deregulation. 

Even federally, the lack of balance in the books cannot be blamed on
"socialist" policies, with the tax system becoming steadly less
progessive throughout the Labor years.  Have a look at the tax dept.
figures for the average %ge tax paid by those with taxable incomes over
500,000pa, and compare that to the effects that bracket creep have had
on the percentage tax the average income earner pays.

Yours,

Conrad Drake
--
"A carnival of misery so tragically our own,
 Where gathered 'round the ballot box we reap what we have sown"
               "These Festivals" Leunig, 1992

Email: conrad@pico.qpsx.oz.au
Snail: QPSX Communications, Private Bag 24, West Perth 6005, Australia. 
Numbers:(ph) +61 9 324 1641, (fx) +61 9 321 2984 (dod) 0604

Newsgroups: aus.general
From: u8706558@cs.uow.edu.au (Sean Volke)
Subject: Re: I wish petrol were taxed more
Organization: The Shell
Distribution: aus
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 05:49:02 GMT

djk@bby.com.au (David Keegel) writes:
>u8706558@cs.uow.edu.au (Sean Volke) writes:
>] >|> Sydney to Wollongong (75k each way) every day. It's a 2-hour round
>] >|> trip by car, 6 hours by public transport, and who knows how long by 

>] 		15 minute walk to station,
>] 		40 minute train trip Bankstown to Central
>] 		1.5 hours train trip Central to Wollongong
>] 		20 minute walk station to uni.

>If you are a Uni student, doesn't this mean your have over 4 hours of
>study time built in to your day?  If you can spend the train time
>doing reading etc which you would otherwise have had to do at home,
>the train doesn't look so bad.  And on top of that you get an hour
>per day of exercise!

>Of course, you also have to get up two hours earlier than by car. :-(
And get home two hours later.
Seriousl though have you tried studying on NSW trains ? And just the
amount of travelling wears out. I used to be a walking zombie 8)
Now with the car I'm wide awake and get plenty of study (most of the
time :^) ) 

I will admit though my exercise has gone done to zero and I'm starting
to put on weight. Oh well that's life, the universe and a dog's 
breakfast
-- 
    ___        |MOSH       'Wake up mislead children of wrath           
   /   \  THE  |FOR        Escape the consequence of the fire'          
  | O  | SNAIL |THE                                 Mortification     //
__\___/_____\/_|MASTER     u8706558@wraith.cs.uow.edu.au            \X/ 
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: u8706558@cs.uow.edu.au (Sean Volke)
Subject: 11-11-92
Organization: The Shell
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 07:28:40 GMT

Today marks the day why Australia should be a republic.
Commiserations to one and all.

-- 
    ___        |MOSH       'Wake up mislead children of wrath           
   /   \  THE  |FOR        Escape the consequence of the fire'          
  | O  | SNAIL |THE                                 Mortification     //
__\___/_____\/_|MASTER     u8706558@wraith.cs.uow.edu.au            \X/ 
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: pol253b@monu1.cc.monash.edu.au (Ms D Alexander)
Subject: irc client
Keywords: irc
Organization: Monash University, Australia.
Distribution: aus
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 03:11:38 GMT

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could direct me to a public access
IRC client that I can telnet to - preferably one not too far
from Melbourne.

Dey.


Newsgroups: aus.general
From: chris@suite.sw.oz.au (Chris Maltby)
Subject: Re: 11-11-92
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Date: 12 Nov 92 03:09:11 GMT

In <Gary.Woodman.828.721531199@anu.edu.au> Gary.Woodman@anu.edu.au (Gary Woodman) writes:

>"In Flanders fields the poppies grow,
>Between the crosses, row on row."
>
>What? Wrong year? Sorry, gang. I have a poppy clipped to the side of my 
>monitor, I bet Gough wore one too, and Malcolm for that matter.

And I thought it was the anniversary of the martyrdom of a great Australian,
Ned Kelly, who reached the end of a rope in Russell St Gaol on 11/11/1880.

"Tell them I died game!"
-- 
Chris Maltby - Softway Pty Ltd		Internet: chris@softway.sw.oz.au

PHONE:	+61-2-698-2322	"I'm waiting for X-Windows to become just that;
FAX:	+61-2-699-9174	 Ex-Windows" - A McGrath.
From: mgream@acacia (Matthew Gream)
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: Re: I wish petrol were taxed more
Date: 11 Nov 1992 06:25:27 GMT
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney
Distribution: aus
NNTP-Posting-Host: acacia.ccsd.uts.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Sean Volke (u8706558@cs.uow.edu.au) wrote:

: Seriousl though have you tried studying on NSW trains ? And just the
: amount of travelling wears out. I used to be a walking zombie 8)
: Now with the car I'm wide awake and get plenty of study (most of the
: time :^) ) 

Not to mention getting a _seat_ on a peak-hour service. Its annoying to
fork out the cash for a weekly ticket and have to stand up, im lucky,
my usual service fills up 2 stations after I get on, thats still 45
minutes before the city. There is also a certain amount of annoyance that
'freebie' private (and I guess public, but I dont notice them on my route)
school students like to take up as much seating as they please and 
generally give no consideration to paying customers.

I really think that any school student that is not attending a the school
nearest to him/her be forced to foot the bill to a certain extent.

Matthew.
--
M.Gream@uts.EDU.AU - Matthew Gream - 'Edges have holes next to them .. '
From: Bruce.Paterson@f543.n635.z3.fidonet.org (Bruce Paterson)
Sender: acsnet@csource.oz.au
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: EFTPOS
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 13:25:42 +1000

Rubbish !
(What a giveaway !)


 * Origin: John Knox ARC Melbourne Aus. (613) 521 1206 (3:635/543)
Xref: sparky aus.general:2166 aus.auug:320