HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mack@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Gregg Mack ( Sun ))
Subject: Re: Any tips from ErgoPower users for a new ErgoPower owner?
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin, Texas
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 15:42:50 GMT

mike@pyrdc.UUCP (Mike Whitman) writes:

>Santa dropped a set of ErgoPower levers down my chimmney last night and I was
>wondering what I should watch out for when installing/adjusting them. Anyone
>with some hints they would be appreciated. Thanks,

Personally, I'd stay clear of that chimney while installing those Campy
parts!  There may be other bicycle components lodged in there and could
fall at any time.  ;-)

-- 
Gregg Mack                  ---------- __o       __o       __o       __o
gmack@paceline.sps.mot.com  -------- _`\<,_    _`\<,_    _`\<,_    _`\<,_
Motorola RISC uProcessors   ------- (*)/ (*)  (*)/ (*)  (*)/ (*)  (*)/ (*)
Austin, Texas  USA          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: pardo@cs.washington.edu (David Keppel)
Subject: Re: Phil Wood hubs
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 92 22:43:24 GMT

>stevec@water.ca.gov writes:
>>[Solid axles are heavier but stronger.]

kiisaka@csi.uottawa.ca (Ken Iisaka (the mad pianist)) writes:
>[The QR skewer fills the hollow axle hole, and the nuts are about the
> same weight as the QR.  Probably a few grams lighter.  And the material
> in the center of a solid axle doesn't help the axle resist bends.]

The bolt-on axles used by Phil Wood and Bullseye are attatched using
allen-head bolts inserted from the ends.  The hollow space in the
middle of the axle is filled with air, so the axle assembly is lighter.

Digressionary story:

I was talking with a guy working in a shop, he had replaced his
Aluminum Bullseye axles with Titanium axles.  I asked why -- ``to save
weight.''  Time for some mechanics...

 - Titanium is denser than Aluminum.  Any time you replace a given
 volume of Al with the same volume of Ti, you add weight.  Maybe
 strength, too, but using Ti this way makes things heavier.

 - You can often replace a given amount of Al with less Ti, with the
 result you have a stronger part that weighs the same or a lighter part
 that is just as strong.  In the case of axles, though, he replaced the
 fat Bullseye Al axle with a skinny Ti axle.  The biggest load on hubs
 is a bending load and the strength of the axle in that direction
 increases as the square of the axle diameter (? something faster than
 linear), so having a fat axle is more important than a skinny axle of
 a stronger material.

I mentioned this and asked him if he had actually weighed the hubs
before and after the axle change.  He looked kinda embarassed and
finally said that no, he hadn't, and he had probably wasted both his
time and money by switching axles.

>[Phil Wood hubs are pretty overbuilt...]

Maybe so, but Phil hubs weigh in around 400g, Bullseye around 350g.
That's in the same ballpark as a set of conventional freewheel-threaded
hubs.  So what you're getting for your money is better-placed material,
not more of it.

	;-D on  ( Paying more and getting less )  Pardo
From: chandler@wc.novell.com (Mark Chandler)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Wheel Wonderings
Date: 28 Dec 92 17:50:25 GMT
Organization: Novell, Inc. - Walnut Creek

In article <Bzox25.5G3@icon.rose.hp.com> kc@core.rose.hp.com (Kurt Chan) writes:
>I'm getting some new road clinchers for training and a lighter pair for
>competition.  I weigh about 150lbs and ride a 55cm frame.  My current
>leanings:
>
>              Training             Competition
>              --------            -------------
>Rims:          Mavic MA2          Mavic Open 4 Argent
>
>Hubs:          DA or Ultegra      Nukeproof
>               32/32              32/28
>               8spd cassette      8spd cassette
>
>Spokes:        14/15, 3x          15/16, 3x
>               front and rear     front and rear
>
>Nipples:       Brass              Alloy
>
>Tires:         Spec Transition    Michelin Supercompe HD
>               700x23             700x18
>
>
>I'm interested in what other netters ride, and also:
>
>- If heavier 14 straight gauge spokes have a strength advantage
>  and should be used on the rear wheel instead of 14-15,

You could try Wheelsmith's 14/16/14 spokes.  They're lighter than
14/15/14s and probably just as strong (I weigh 195 and ride them
off-road with Mavic Mod3Ds).
 
>- If Brass nipples have a strength advantage
>
>- If Mavic Open 4 "Argent" rims are just "silver anodized"

"Argent" usually means silver anodized.  Although some "Argent"
rims have double eyelets whereas the non-Argents do not.

>- Anything else in component selection that affects wheel longevity
>  and trueness (given the same expert wheelbuilding practices)

A friend who works in a shop that specializes in high-end mountain
bike stuff said that everyone he knows (follow-ups to alt.folklore.urban)
has had problems with Nuke Proof hubs.  He didn't say exactly what the
problems were though.

>Kurt Chan
>
>       Hewlett-Packard, Information Networks Div   Ph: 916-785-5621  
>       8000 Foothills Blvd, MS R5NF               Fax: 916-785-2875  
>       Roseville, CA 95747-6588          email: kc@core.rose.hp.com  


--
Mark Chandler               Novell, Inc.          510/975-4522
chandler@wc.novell.com      Walnut Creek, CA
==================================================================
     The opinions expressed above are mine, not my employer's.
From: stephen@ocf.berkeley.edu (Stephen Tu)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Help with Top Pull Der.!!!
Date: 4 Jan 1993 02:12:55 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: planecrash.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec31.030621.20278@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> mpb@nomad.JPL.NASA.gov (Michael Batchelder) writes:
>In article <92358.233138U3C@psuvm.psu.edu>, <U3C@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>
>|> Trek just replaced my mtb fram....I decided to upgrade to a 7000/8000
>|> frame which has top tube cable routing.....They sent along with the
>|> Thanks in advance....steve
>
>Yes, the bolt btw the chainstays is part of this mystery.  If Trek was in
>
>Michael Batchelder
>mpb@nomad.jpl.nasa.gov

No, that's not right.  Referenceing the 7000 I just got, the bolt between
the chainstays near the bottom bracket is used to attach the anti-chain jam
device that Trek fits on its bikes.

The front derailleur cable should run through the cable guides on the left
side of the top tube.  There is an additional cable guide located on the top
of the left seatstay, just behind the seat post.  Run the cable through that
guide and directly to the top pull front derailleur.

Stephen Tu
stephen@ocf.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: adr5@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Alex D Rodriguez)
Subject: Re: B. Rohloff on Rohloff chains
Reply-To: adr5@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Alex D Rodriguez)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 23:25:58 GMT

In article <4sR891frv4@bi-l003.bi-link.owl.de> H.ZIERKE@BI-LINK.owl.de (Hans-Joachim Zierke) writes:
>
>I handed your comments about Rohloff chains over to Mr. Bernhard Rohloff.
>As I expected, he likes to reply.  ;-)
>

>chains do have non round holes! The exact shape of the holes is
>called trochoide which you can create by deviding a round gateau
>in three parts (of 120 degree) and then moving them a little bit
>away from the center and connecting the circle periphery with
>three tangent lines.

I'm not really sure I can picture what a trochoide is, can any one else give
another description.  What is a gateau?  Thanks.
---------------
Alex Rodriguez
Columbia University
New York City




Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.racing
From: dharvey@lemond.harvey.com (Dave "Hill" Harvey)
Subject: Have a Dave Harvey Christmas!
Organization: Harvey Consulting
Date: 22 Dec 92 01:34:33 GMT

My fiancee, Nan, is REAL cute. I hope we love each by the date of the wedding.
She's getting me a 57-tooth chain ring. I can't wait to try it out on the
local tri-bobs. I can't stand those guys.

    - Dave
ZZ
From: chris@carnival.lbl.gov (Chris Moll)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Wider Rear Hub...will it work
Date: 21 Dec 1992 15:45:20 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California
NNTP-Posting-Host: carnival.lbl.gov
Keywords: n

Bruce@nmsu.edu (ROWEN) writes:
>I have a '90 Bridgestone MB2 with a 130mm rear DX hub and a 122 mm BB.
>What I need to know is what do I need to do (or can I?) to put a 135
>mm rear hub on the thing. 

I have an '89 Bridgestone MB2, which came with a 130mm rear hub 
(a Sansin sealed-bearing hub with a Suntour freewheel).

I replaced it with a Deore cassette (135mm); the rear dropouts appear
to have been spaced close to 135mm, because the rear wheel drops right
in.  I didn't touch the BB.

If your rear droputs are really 130mm, you can still just stuff it in.

(For a really good time, try getting an over or undersized hub into
a Klein Al frame - those chainstays are NOT interested in bending).
--
Chris Moll                       (510)486-7891
---
A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature
replaces it with.        -- Tenessee Williams
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Subject: Re: Bulldog tire chains - opinions?
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 03:08:46 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.115047.1@kean.ucs.mun.ca>
msimpson@kean.ucs.mun.ca writes:
 
>I was wondering if anyone has had any experience using Bulldog tires
>chains for winter riding?  I'd be interested in using them for offroad
>purposes only.  We've been doing a lot of winter mt. biking and a recent
>fall on some ice has had me thinking about tire chains and studded
>tires.  Thanks for your help!
>
Studded tires are easy enough to make.  Take a tire that you are
willing to sacrifice to the experiement.  Nail a roofing nail (those
galvanized nails with heads about 1/2" in diameter) through the tread
from the inside, oh say about every inch or so, staggered slightly
along the tread's centerline.  Line the tire with one (or more) old
tubes (split along the rim side).  Mount the tire, pump it up, and
use a pair of wire cutters to cut off the nails "flush" with the
outside of the tire; the cutters usually leave a chisel shaped end
sticking out maybe 1/16" from where you started the cut.  All told,
this takes less than an hour...or you could buy a studded tire (I
think IRC made/makes one called the Blizzard).
 
Note:  Someone, maybe Jobst, recently discussed the physics of
traction on ice.  I believe that the assertion was that rubber
gets pretty good traction on ice so long as there isn't any water;
as soon as water gets between the rubber and ice, you are infect
iceskating.  Before investing too much effort in chains/studded
tires, I would look up that post.
 
..Richard E+17
From: mike@pyrdc.UUCP (Mike Whitman)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Any tips from ErgoPower users for a new ErgoPower owner?
Date: 25 Dec 92 16:21:04 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology, Government Systems

Santa dropped a set of ErgoPower levers down my chimmney last night and I was
wondering what I should watch out for when installing/adjusting them. Anyone
with some hints they would be appreciated. Thanks,

-- mike --

-- 
                 -=---------  Michael C. Whitman
               ---===-------  National System Engineer - Telecom
             -----=====-----  Pyramid Technology Corporation
           -------=======---  1921 Gallows Road, Suite 250
         ---------=========-  Vienna, VA 22182

	Phone: (703) 848-2050	Pager: (800)sky-page pin# 45300
	    mike@pyrdc.va.pyramid.com -or- uunet!pyrdc!mike
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: chandler@wc.novell.com (Mark Chandler)
Subject: Re: Specialized WTB saddle?
Organization: Novell, Inc. - Walnut Creek
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 18:29:06 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.102621.616@einoed.in-berlin.de> alh@einoed.in-berlin.de (Adrian Le Hanne) writes:
>Hello,
>in summer i read something about a WTB saddle that will be produced by
>Specialized (and thus, hopefuly not that expensive).
>
>Is this thing available yet? What are the prices/weight for the steel 
>and titanium model?

I believe you're referring to the ProLong saddle.  It has been available
for some time here in the US.  Specialized OEM'd them on quite a few of
their upper-end bikes, but they didn't seem to sell too well as an
aftermarket item.  Colorado Cyclist (the mail-order place) was blowing
out the steel-railed version for ~$20 (US).  Either they had a lot of
them or they simply weren't selling; because it was listed on every
receipt I received from them for the last few months.  I suspect the
overly-long nose hindered the saddle's sales.  (Although the rear
portion looked like it would be easy to slide off of for more control
on REALLY steep descents.)

>thanks,
>Adrian
>-- 
>Adrian S. Le Hanne        Einoed Unix & Netzwerke, Koepenicker Str.154, D-1000
>alh@einoed.in-berlin.de   Berlin 36. Tel.: 030/611 31 26,  Fax.: 030/611 32 86
>  "On a day such as this you should insist on more than the truth" -Pere Ubu


--
Mark Chandler               Novell, Inc.          510/975-4522
chandler@wc.novell.com      Walnut Creek, CA
==================================================================
     The opinions expressed above are mine, not my employer's.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: praetzel@maxwell.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel)
Subject: Re: MTBs as racers
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:13:43 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.140349.26102@einoed.in-berlin.de> alh@einoed.in-berlin.de (Adrian Le Hanne) writes:
>I'm in the process of building up a '93 'Dale frame as a 'road bike'. I will
>using spare parts that i have lying around here (such as XT brakes/levers,
>a Campy/XT wheel set, Litespeed stem etc.) Together with an Scott AT2-LF 
>bar (looks like an MTB bar with steer horns) and a 50-11 gear it will give
>me the opportunity to ride with roadies (except the air resistance maybe).

I just used normal drop bars on my bike.  I started with a 48 - 12 high gear
and that was plenty.  Going to a 52 did not really help much.  Heck I never
got into the 12t that much.  Most races only average 40 km/h or so anyway.
  The only difference between such a setup is weight.  With drop bars and a
long stem you can get into the same pedal relationship.  The handling will
be different but I do not beleive for one minuite that it would hinder a
rider.  The weight difference between my MTB and your average SL frame was
about 4 lb.  Again not much difference. It may matter if you are not strong
enough to hold onto the pack on hills but then I would lead them up and still
be at the back when we crested.
  In short there is no reason why you can't road race, TT and crit race a MTB
after changing the bars, wheels (tires and gears).  Heck I did for 1.5 years
before I got my Klein.  I am not any faster now, nor more comfortable.  The
only thing is that I don't have to go thru the 1 hour ritual of converting the
bike.  But then my Klein is 7 lb lighter than the road bike and that makes a
big difference when I lift it into my trunk or bunny hop Dave Harvy whenever
that Cat 3 turkey crashes in front of me.
  - Eric 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: mpb@nomad.JPL.NASA.gov (Michael Batchelder)
Subject: Re: Help with Top Pull Der.!!!
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, NASA/Caltech
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 03:06:21 GMT

In article <92358.233138U3C@psuvm.psu.edu>, <U3C@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:

|> Trek just replaced my mtb fram....I decided to upgrade to a 7000/8000
|> frame which has top tube cable routing.....They sent along with the
|> frame a top pull (I think) XC LTD front derallieur (Sp?)....The
|> problem is I have no idea how to run a cable to a top pull der. and
|> make it work (I can fix almost anything else on a bike....). Am I
|> stupid??? Can someone Help?????  Oh a added piece of info there is
|> a bolt between the chainstays where they meet the bottom braket shell..
|> is this part of the cable routing mystery???? AnywaY I would appreciate any
|> info leading to the completion of the assembly of my bike.....
|> Thanks in advance....steve

Yes, the bolt btw the chainstays is part of this mystery.  If Trek was in
the Christmas spirit, hopefully they sent some SIS housing with the front
derailleur (sp!).  Then again, they sent a Suntour (?!?) f/d that's kinda
not high end, unlike your frame, so maybe they weren't feeling generous.
Anyway, you need housing to run from the top tube braze-on that's just
forward of the seatpost to the derailleur itself.  The cable/housing goes
into the top of the pull arm of the derailleur, and the cable comes through
the arm down to the bolt.  Unscrew the bolt, wrap the cable 180 degreees
around the bolt, then tighten.  Shifter lever should be in the small chain
ring position.  You can get slight tension adjustment with the barrel that's
at the shifter lever, or you can unscrew that bolt, but you can guess it's
mighty tough given its location.  Bolt takes a 4mm allen key.

I assume you've got Suntour shifter levers?  I don't know if the Suntour
front derailleur would work w/ Shimano Rapidfire levers, or if top-pulls
work well with friction thumb shifters of any make.

Michael Batchelder
mpb@nomad.jpl.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: stevec@water.ca.gov (Steve Croft)
Subject: Re: Phil Wood hubs
Reply-To: stevec@water.ca.gov
Organization: California Department of Water Resources
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 15:42:07 GMT

Steve Manifold wrote:

>> I recently read somewhere that Phil Wood hubs have a feature in 
>> which instead of using quick-releases, you can clamp the hubs to 
>> the dropouts via a allen bolt and washer. ... This seems
>> like a good way to save some weight (maybe 200 g).


Bob Parker responded:

>It is as you describe...threaded on the inside.  Phil's stuff 
>is built to last so I'm not sure it saves any weight.

I don't know about Phil Wood hubs, but usually hub makers do away with QR
in order to have a solid axle which means more strength.  It also (usually)
means more weight.

steve
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Subject: Re: Phil Wood hubs
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 00:10:23 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.200812.3710@chpc.utexas.edu>
ezag637@chpc.utexas.edu (Steve Manifold) writes:
 
>I recently read somewhere that Phil Wood hubs have a feature in
>which instead of using quick-releases, you can clamp the hubs to
>the dropouts via a allen bolt and washer.  I assume the axle is
>threaded on the inside for this arrangement to work.  This seems
>like a good way to save some weight (maybe 200 g).  Of course,
>you have to carry the appropriate hex key with you in case of
>emergencies.
>
>Does anybody out there have anything like this?
>
Our tandem came with such a hub (15 years ago).  The bolts weigh
something; just guessing, they look like about the same amount
of metal as in a quick release.  The old ones require something
like a 3/8" hex wrench, while I believe that the newer ones require
something smaller.  On our hub, the threads inside the (aluminum
alloy?) axle stripped; I drilled out what little threads remained
and inserted a solid axle.  It did add some weight, but it also let
us get another 5000 miles out of the wheel.
 
..Richard E+17
 
 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: H.ZIERKE@BI-LINK.owl.de (Hans-Joachim Zierke)
Organization: Hans-Joachim Zierke - Private Site in Berlin
Subject: Re: Specialized WTB saddle?
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 93 13:00:00 +0100
X-Mailer: CrossPoint v2.1 R/211
X-Gateway: ZCONNECT UI bi-link.owl.de [RFC/Connect IIIb DOS v0.46]


On 30.12.92, chandler@wc.novell.com writes:

*>>in summer i read something about a WTB saddle that will be produced by
*>>Specialized (and thus, hopefuly not that expensive).
*>>
*>>Is this thing available yet? What are the prices/weight for the steel 
*>>and titanium model?
*>
*>I believe you're referring to the ProLong saddle.  It has been available
*>for some time here in the US.  Specialized OEM'd them on quite a few of
*>their upper-end bikes, but they didn't seem to sell too well as an
*>aftermarket item.  Colorado Cyclist (the mail-order place) was blowing
*>out the steel-railed version for ~$20 (US).  Either they had a lot of
*>them or they simply weren't selling; because it was listed on every
*>receipt I received from them for the last few months.  I suspect the
*>overly-long nose hindered the saddle's sales.  (Although the rear
*>portion looked like it would be easy to slide off of for more control
*>on REALLY steep descents.)
*>
*>>thanks,
*>>Adrian
*>>-- 
*>>Adrian S. Le Hanne        Einoed Unix & Netzwerke, Koepenicker Str.154, D-
*>>a1000 alh@einoed.in-berlin.de   Berlin 36. Tel.: 030/611 31 26,  Fax.: 030/


The german importer lists the Prolong saddles since spring 92. That doesn't
necessarily mean they are imported, though.  ;-)



Ciao
Hajo

--
Hans-Joachim Zierke  ##  Tel.: +49-30 / 394 8445  ##  Fax: +49-30 / 394 8447
                         h.zierke@bi-link.owl.de
From: Mike@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Mike)
Sender: Jpunix@urchin.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Chain Maintenance
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 18:33:00 -0500

DB>I am new here and the terminology leaves me confused sometimes.
DB>What is a FAQ?

Just in case no one has answered you yet, that stands for Frequently
Asked Questions.


 * SLMR 2.1a *      Tighten 'til it cracks, then back off 1/2 turn.
From: flakebit@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (skully the automaton.)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: aluminum vs. carbon fiber
Date: 26 Dec 1992 17:53:15 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Summary: aluminum vs. carbon fiber

Hello everyone.  I'm going to puchase either a Trek 8700 or a Cannondale v700
but i can't make up my mind between the carbon fiber or the alumimun frame. I've
had a cannondale before and i was pleased with it's performance but i think it
may be time to try somthing a little different. I haven't heard anything neg-
ative about either frame but i have heard that most carbon fiber frames are in-
destructable by humans. Any sugesstions? Thanks alot.

Blake Fithen (flakebit@matt.ksu.ksu.edu)

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.racing
From: "Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Have a Dave Harvey Christmas!
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 00:47:12 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)

>DATE:   22 Dec 92 01:34:33 GMT
>FROM:   Dave Hill Harvey <dharvey@lemond.harvey.com>
>
>My fiancee, Nan, is REAL cute.

Let's hear more about Nan. How cute *is* she?

--Michael Smith
From: Bob_Parker@QM.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM (Bob Parker)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Phil Wood hubs
Date: 23 Dec 92 16:35:58 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Dec22.200812.3710@chpc.utexas.edu>, ezag637@chpc.utexas.edu (Steve Manifold) writes:
> 
> I recently read somewhere that Phil Wood hubs have a feature in 
> which instead of using quick-releases, you can clamp the hubs to 
> the dropouts via a allen bolt and washer.  I assume the axle is 
> threaded on the inside for this arrangement to work.  This seems
> like a good way to save some weight (maybe 200 g).  Of course, 
> you have to carry the appropriate hex key with you in case of 
> emergencies.
> 
> Does anybody out there have anything like this? 
>>

I've got one on my old tandem...it was necessary to mount a Phil brake on 
the rear hub.  It is as you describe...threaded on the inside.  Phil's stuff 
is built to last so I'm not sure it saves any weight.
From: jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 00:26:31 GMT
Subject: Re: B. Rohloff on Rohloff chains
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, CA