HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wc4209@writer.yorku.ca (Irene Berkovich)
Subject: Re: Israel must return the deportees!
Organization: Computer Assisted Writing Centre, York University, Toronto, Canada
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 05:06:05 GMT

In article <533@owl.ukc.ac.uk> dat@ukc.ac.uk (D.A.Turner) writes:
>In article <RLK.92Dec28221058@underprize.think.com> (Robert Krawitz) writes:
>>In article <531@owl.ukc.ac.uk> dat@ukc.ac.uk (D.A.Turner) writes:
>>
>>   Can people not see that the violence of Hamas and similar  organisations
>>   is the natural reaction of the Palestinians to the misery of their lives
>>   under Israeli occupation?
>>
>>Then why were such groups organized long before June 1967, when this was
>>not an issue (the PLO was formed in 1964)?
>
>Most of the territory of Palestine was seized in 1948.   Three  quarters
>of  a  million  Palestinians were driven from their homes, in an "ethnic
>cleansing" similar to what is now going on  in  Bosnia.   The  remainder
>became  second  class citizens in a Zionist state.  This event is called
>in Arabic "El Naqbar" - the Catastrophe.  The shock waves of that  event
>are  still echoing around the arab world.  If you want to understand the
>Israel/Palestine dispute, the key year is 1948, not 1967.
>
>David Turner
>(A British Jew who does NOT support Israel)


Sorry British Israel-hating Jew (BIHJ),  you're wrong again.  Most of
the territory of Palestine was *not* seized in 1948.  It was *ceded*
in 1922 by the British to Abdullah, the grandfather of the present
King of Jordan.  This land mass constitutes 76% of Palestine, and was
originally called TransJordan.  The name was later changed to Jordan
in order to erase any identification with Palestine.  Even today
Jordann has a *majority* Palestinian population.  So the Palestinians
*do* have a Palestine.  Unfortunately, it's being ruled by a Saudi
(Hashemite) who has no business ruling there.  So they definitely have
a case for a Palestinian state in Jordan.

I think Israel is entitled to keep its 24% of 'Palestine' as a Jewish
country.

P.S.  When will Britain stop occupying Northern Ireland?
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Jihad is self-defence
Date: 31 Dec 92 09:03:33 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Dec28.140846.26672@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il> fedimit@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il (Dan Nabutovsky) writes:
>
>It is called Israeli defensive army, because it defends Israel.

... by breaking the hands of and murdering children even outside
of Yisrael itself!

Anisa
 
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24364 talk.politics.soviet:10079 soc.culture.greek:11956 soc.culture.europe:10899 soc.history:10448 soc.culture.soviet:11682
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Hypocrisy, double standards and "Po Shan Cheah".
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 22:18:49 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <C01srA.AE1@exnet.co.uk> dhd@exnet.co.uk (Damon) writes:

>It comes from the (Sun ?) fortune file.

Well, empty words will not fill an empty stomach. The truth is sometimes 
hard to swallow, 'Damon.' Millions of Turks and Kurds lost grandfathers, 
grandmothers, aunts and uncles at the hands of Armenian dictators, 
genocide squads, terrorists and insurgents trying to establish an 
independent state in an area where the Armenians were in the overwhelming 
minority. 

When the Ottoman soldiers entered the city of Erzincan they found all
public and Islamic buildings and more than 1,000 houses demolished
by the Armenians.

Hundreds of bodies of Erzincan's Turks were found in the streets,
hundreds more in wells or shallow graves. In other cities the scenes
awaiting the Ottoman soldiers were similar. 400 buildings in Bayburt
had been burned down and hundreds of bodies were in the streets.
Tercan had been completely destroyed by dynamite. In Erzurum, the
greatest city of the east, Ottoman officials estimated that 8,000
Turks had been killed in the city alone. The figure may have been
exaggerated, but the soldiers did count and record each body buried
by them and 2,127 male bodies were buried in the first 8 days.
Out of a sense of decency, the soldiers did not count the female 
bodies buried or report what had happened to them.

The atrocities in the cities were repeated in the villages. On the
Armenian line of retreat the Muslims who could not flee were killed.
Very few houses and no complete villages remained. An Austrian
newspaper reporter, who could not be accused of liking the Russians,
Austria's enemy, stated that the Russians had treated the people of
the region relatively well, but that when Russia collapsed Armenian 
gangs destroyed the Turks. Dr. Stephan Eshnanic traveled the region
and wrote

"I have been observing the evidence of the cruelties of the Armenians
 at almost every step. All the villages from Trabzon to Erzincan and
 from Erzincan to Erzurum are destroyed."[1]  

Turkish refugees, the remainder of the original population, who had
been able to remain during the Russian occupation, now choked the
roads.

[1] Reported to the "Nues Wiener Tagblatt, Prester Lloyd, etc."

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Can anyone answer a real quick, simple question?
Date: 3 Jan 93 10:54:39 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <Jan.3.00.29.38.1993.7624@bach.rutgers.edu>
marwang@bach.rutgers.edu (Marwan Gharaybeh) writes:

>cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu (Michael Silverman) writes:
>
>>The United Nations condemned Israeli expulsion of Palestinians from
>>the Occupied Territories.
>
>>My question...why did the UN not condemn the acts of terrorism
>>which *led* to the expulsions?
>
>>Can anyone (pro or anti -Israel) answer this?
>
(Marwan):
>Because it was not an act of terrorism ... Terrorism is the action of killing
>civilians not militery ... The victim is a policeman...
>--Marwan

I do consider murdering a policeman to be an immoral activity, but
saying as if Arabs do murder "just policemen" contradicts facts.

@ hour a go a bomb hidden by Israeli-citizen-Arab was exploded in a
bus on its way from Petach Tikva to Haifa. ( No one was hurt), but the
passangers on that bus were not " policemen" , there was a 3 month
non-policeman baby and a lot of other non-policemen human being.
Rachel Druk and Yizhak Rofe that were murdered by strangers ( "Arabs")
and the farmers near Afula as well as the dis-able Mr. Klinghofer of
Aquila Laura and the pasangers of the Jet exploded by Arab "freedom
lovers" where all non-policemen !

( Note the Jihad patwa should be aplied according to Islam not just to
policemen).

Gideon Ehrlich   ERETZ YISRAEL    we shell over come
From: zmbenhal@netcom.com (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: israel
Date: 28 Dec 92 01:54:55 GMT
Distribution: talk
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Dec27.1777.21630@channel1> "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:
>To: Center for Policy Research

Maybe you should send this to him(them) rather than on usenet.

>A few questions:
>
>  (1) What is the Center for Policy Research? Who funds it? What
>  is its address? What is its mission?

Beats me.

>
>  (2) Do you believe that Israel has a right to exist in any form
>  whatever?

Only as a SECULAR democratic state with no group having more or less rights
than the other.

>  (3) Do you acknowledge that Israel has serious security
>  problems and is surrounded by hostile forces?

Yes, but it is the cause of its own misery.

>  (4) Why would a Palestinian state require advanced military
>  armaments?

For the same reason Israel and all other states do. A state doesn't need to
justify to anybody why it should have arms, advanced or not.

>  (5) If you don't believe that Israel has a right to exist, and
>  should be dismantled, are you willing to take into your city
>  all the refugees from the former Israel?

I don't see why there should be any refugees. The ones who want to leave can
go back the same countries they came from. Natives need not go anywhere, they
should have the same rights as everybody else.

>---
> ~ OLX 3.01 31-2557 ~ 20 pairs of reading hands per scavenger robot
>--
>Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA
>

Zeyd
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.history
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: How typical (and pathetic) are the sources Greeks use
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 93 16:47:59 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1i66juINNm20@shelley.u.washington.edu> krenner@byron.u.washington.edu (Randolph Carter) writes:

>Serdar: I'd first like to state that I am absolutely neutral on the history
>of Armenians vs. Turks. I am interested in asking you a question, in the
>form of a dilemma:

But, do you really think that this is a realistic standpoint?
For nearly one thousand years, the Turkish and Kurdish people 
lived on their homeland - the last one hundred under the 
oppressive Soviet and Armenian occupation. The persecutions
culminated in 1914: The Armenian Government (Dashnaks and
Hunchaks) planned and carried out a Genocide against its 
Muslim subjects. 2.5 million Turks and Kurds were murdered
and the remainder driven out of their homeland. After one
thousand years, Turkish and Kurdish lands were empty of Turks
and Kurds. The survivors found a safe heaven in Turkiye.
Today, x-Soviet Armenian government rejects the right of Turks 
and Kurds to return to their Muslim lands occupied by x-Soviet 
Armenia. Today, x-Soviet Armenian government covers up the genocide 
perpetrated by its predecessors and is therefore an accessory to 
this crime against humanity. x-Soviet Armenian government must pay 
for their crime of genocide against the Muslims by admitting to 
the crime and making reparations to the Turks and Kurds. Turks and 
Kurds demand the right to return to their lands, to determine 
their own future as a nation in their own homeland.

>Let's say that one day an extremely powerful being appears to you and
>announces that it is going to destroy all Turks everywhere. It is
>(for the sake of argument) perfectly capable of causing all Turks to
>vanish off the face of the earth in an instant, and there is nothing
>anybody can do to stop it. However, this powerful being has decided to give
>you, Serdar a choice. Your choice is this. You can choose one of two
>alternatives:
>a. The being destroys all Turks everywhere.
>or
>b. The being destroys all Turks, Armenians, and Greeks everywhere.
>What do you choose? Remember, if you do not choose, the being will go 
>ahead and destroy only Turks. It's your choice! Turks only, or Turks,
>Armenians and Greek as well get destroyed!
>Thanks for your cooperation.
 
As it stands, it is meaningless, and also irrelevant to the current
discussion.

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hm@cs.brown.edu (Harry Mamaysky)
Subject: Re: POLITICS: Re: Israel must return the deportees!
Organization: Somewhere East or Somewhere West
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 16:52:58 GMT

|> In <531@owl.ukc.ac.uk> dat@ukc.ac.uk (D.A.Turner) writes:
|> 
|> >David Turner
|> >(A British Jew who does NOT support Israel)

Why, if I may be so bold, do you NOT support Israel? Do you NOT
support the current implementation, or is it the idea of a Jewish
state that you do NOT support?

Harry.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: fedimit@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il (Dan Nabutovsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Jihad is self-defence
Date: 28 Dec 92 14:08:46 GMT
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science, Computation Center

In article <osamakl.725485181@vincent2.iastate.edu> osamakl@iastate.edu (Osama Al-Shaykh-Yousef) writes:
>
>What do you call you army?
>It is the Israeli defensive army. War is self defense!

It is called Israeli defensive army, because it defends Israel.

Dan
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24271 talk.politics.soviet:10037 soc.culture.greek:11922 soc.culture.europe:10859 soc.rights.human:4687 soc.culture.soviet:11636 news.admin.policy:934
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.rights.human,soc.culture.soviet,news.admin.policy
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: (Auto?) Canceller, stop it! (Re: Cancels)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 20:11:29 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <root.725496543@maui> kbibb@maui.qualcomm.com (Ken Bibb) writes:

>Because exile must have gotten sick of them.  

It boggles the mind, doesn't it?

>I figured it was just
>anatolia (which surprised me because I didn't think that anatolia
>would make any attempt to cancel the articles that were inappropriately
>posted).

"Inappropriately posted"? The old and tired argument you trot out is
just that, old and tired. My articles are here because of your articles.
Moreover, did you ever read newspaper at all?


             Armenian Raid Leaves Azeris Dead or Fleeing:

"...about 1,000 of Khojaly's 10,000 people were killed in Tuesdays attack. 
 Azerbaijani television showed truckloads of corpses being evacuated from 
 the Khocaly area."
 Brian Killen (Reuters)
 The Washington Times, 3/2/92


Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic
From: mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (Mazen Mokhtar)
Subject: Re: The Hadith about Muslims killing the Jews / Hamas vs. Sunnah
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 15:20:07 GMT

Eric S. Perlman writes:

>The situation of Palestinians may not be the best,

  That is for sure.

>but if you want to use the comparison then answer me these questions: where
>are the gas chambers?

  Instead, we have people burried alive by buldozers and houses of people who
are not even suspect destroyed. People are expelled out of their country and
their land and property is given to foreigners.

> where are the concentration camps?

  In the Negev desert among other places are camps where innocent people are
incarcerated for extended periods of time without even a charge. They are
subjected to torture from which they frequently die.

>>  I am a semite an I am not biased against Jews. I am only an opponent of
>>oppression. This position offends many, but that has not detered me.

>Look "anti-semite" up in the dictionary.  Not "semite."  English as a
>language isn't always consistent, and the fact is that whether you like
>it or not the word "anti-semite" does not mean "against all semites".
>It specifically denotes hatred of Jews.

  Reread my sentence above and it will be clear that I understand. Furthermore,
if the English language only includes jews as targets of anti-semitism, then
it should be changed by better usage of the word.

>>  This subject is certainly debatable. After all, both of them are based on
>>the assumption that a certain nationality is "chosen" or better than the rest.

>No, they're not.  Zionism certainly isn't.  I defy you to prove this.
>Indeed, Herzl wasn't even religious.  Neither was Weizmann.  Or the vast
>majority of the founders of Zionism.

  Actually, most of them were atheist or borderline atheist. However, they
still felt that Israel should belong to the members of the so called Jewish
nation. Israel does not revolve around the ideas of the Jewish religion (I
wish), Israel revolves around the idea of the Jewish people. The result
is racist at best.


Mazen Mokhtar
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian)
Subject: Does the Mutlu/Argic Program Have a Bug?
Summary: The Servile Dolt Ends X-posts to soc.culture.turkish 
Organization: S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:16:28 GMT

It seems, as of late, the Mutlu/Argic Turkish Genocide Apology Program has
been kicked out of soc.culture.turkish. The last twenty or so revisions
posted under the name of this servile dolt has not been x-posted to its
home newsgroup. Has the dolt been kicked out or is it a "bug"!

Here are some samples: 


From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.iranian
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Recalling in sorrow the Armenian genocide of the Azeri people.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 21:21:55 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: More on "Zeleny" jokes.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 21:23:56 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Continuation on "sea novices".
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 21:33:43 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.rights.human
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: The Greek authorities deny even the existence of a Turkish minority.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 21:35:16 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.rights.human
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Turkiye did it for the frequently and conveniently forgotten people...
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 21:37:21 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.rights.human
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Sampson and Greek Cypriot arms acquisitions
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 23:07:05 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world



-- 
David Davidian <dbd@urartu.sdpa.org>  |  "The Regular Army of the Ottomans was 
SDPA Center for Regional Studies      |   entirely innocent of the Armenian 
P.O. Box 382761                       |   massacres." - Inspector General of 
Cambridge, MA 02238                   |   the Turkish forces in Armenia, WWI 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: ifaz706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Noam Tractinsky)
Subject: Re: Rabin the peace-maker
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin
Date: 21 Dec 92 14:39:55 CST

In article <29762@castle.ed.ac.uk>, jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson) writes:
> 
> Oh and by the way, in a TV appearance, he claims to have had no choice.
> Well excuuuuuuuuuuuse me!, but in civilised countries (not necessarily in
> Syria, or Iraq, but in *civilised* countries) people aren't punished until
> some evidence against them has been presented in a court of law, with due
> right to defence. 


	Could you believe it? Me agreeing with Jeremy!

	Indeed, in a *civilized* countries (like the *U.K.*) people
	aren't punished until evidence is presented in a court of
	law, with due right to defence. Remember the Birmingham 
	Gang, whose members were convicted and imprisoned by the 
	British court based on faked evidence presented by the 
	British authorities?  Or the IRA guys who were executed by
	the Brits in Gibraltar without facing any trial whatsoever?
	Those guys sure would have preferred expulsion over a bullet
	through the head.
	
                              
 Maybe Israel could try setting its standards just a little
> higher?

	Maybe Israel could try setting its standards just a little
	bit lower to meet those of the U.K, and Jeremy's requirements
	for a proof of civilization.


> -- 
> ===Jeremy Henderson===jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk=          


Noam

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.turkish,news.admin.policy