From: yorton@turtle11.rtsg.mot.com (James J. Yorton)
Subject: Re: NOTICE - Details of the March on Washington
Reply-To: yorton@rtsg.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:50:24 GMT

tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli) writes:
|> The article in WCT and the points that Yorton brought up are going to
|> be brought up time and time again as the march approaches.  Why?
|> Because a cursory reading of the platform will bring many people to
|> these conclusions.
|> 
|> So, we must be prepared to answer these concerns.  They are valid
|> concerns, and I believe they can be addressed and explained to 99% of
|> the critics reactions.  We must be ready to answer these concerns when
|> asked by the gay, les, bi, supportive straight, and otherwise
|> communities.
|> 
 ...
|> 
|> 
|> I guess the most important thing to remember is that nobody marches
|> because they believe in the entire platform.  You march because you
|> agree with one or more of parts of the platform.  Now re-read the
|> platform and see if it makes more sense to you.
|> 
... rest of post deleted ...


|> seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore) writes:
|> Excellent post Tom.
|> It cleared up some real questions for me.
|> I recognize it as far more philosophically sound now.
|> 
|> I think that the original poster(sorry I can't remember your name)

That would be me!  :-)

|> had a valid point on the issue of dilution.  With so many ideas on
|> the same platform, could the issues get confused?
|> 
|> I shall give examples to make my question clearer.
|> 
... rest of post deleted ...

The combination of these two follow-ups did a better job than me
of echoing my concerns with the MOW platform.

My concerns are that the 7 main items are intermixed with non-lesbigay
issues that appear to water down the platform as a whole.  And we're
going to be held accountable when we march.  And after too.  People
are going to want to know the how's and why's of this platform.

I spoke with Deborah Bell (a MOW head-honcho) by telephone, after
my original post went out, but before anyone responded.  I voiced
my concerns about the transgender clauses, and she said I wasn't alone.
According to her, there's been a major discussion on this.  And she
tells me those people who demanded (her words) that transgender be added
are in the minority.  She also told me that some were members of
Queer Nation.  She went on to say that they wanted the name of
the MOW to be changed too, to include "transgender" in the title.
Currently it does not.  She says that some are looking to disrupt
the march if "transgender" isn't added to the title.  Let's hope not.

I've read most of the follow-ups on this-- some asking me what
my problem is, others reminding me that the Stonewall riots had
transvestites (which I knew), etc.

Well, I have no problem with transgender people.  It may have
sounded like I was harping on the transgender issue, but keep
in mind 4 of the 7 main demands included transgender.  You'll
recall that I said, not once, but *twice* in my post that I don't
condone discrimination on anyone, including transgender peeple.
Sure, the Stonewall Inn had transgender people in it, but they were
also gay.  Most transvestites are straight.  It isn't clear to
me why we need to include transgender cateory, which to me is
gender identification and expression, with a march for rights
based on sexual orientation.  Why stop there?  And what's the
connection?  I'm sure there are other categories that aren't included
that should be, if we're going to include non-sexual orientation
categories, such as transgender.

Others have suggested I put forth my suggestions if I am going to
criticize.  Happy to oblige:

1) I feel that all non-lesbigay wording and planks should be
removed from the platform.  Now wait!  Don't hit that 'follow-up'
key just yet.  I would have no problem if the non-lesbigay wording/planks,
which are in the 7 main demands, were moved to the 50-some "support items".
Put them in there along with other things we all oppose, racism,
sexism, discrimination against PWAs., etc.

2) Avoid vague wording.  One of the demands asks for "massive"
amounts of dollars for AIDS research, etc.  I've no problem with
the concept, but how many dollars does it take to add up to "massive"?
It sounds like we're asking for a blank check, and we'll fill in
the amount when we have an idea of how much we need.  That doesn't
make us look very organized.  Furthermore, how does one lobby
for "massive" amounts of money.  How much does Congress spend?

3) Be prepared to say why we demand a particular item.  People will
ask.  Be ready to answer.  Hypothetically, can anyone document
cases of discrimination based on transgender issues that are not
lesbigay related?  If so, OK, but is it enough to warrant having
it added to the Federal Civil Rights Bill?  Yeah, I know, even
one case of discrimination is too much.  But that won't wash
when it comes to lobbying.  I've done a little of that myself
in my home state of Illinois.  Remember who you're dealing with.
Politicians who have to answer to their constituents when it
comes to their voting record.

4)  Be ready for the after-effects.  People have told me that
if local towns don't want to pass local civil rights because
of something they feared in the MOW platform (ie, transgender issues),
that's their problem.  Wrong.  That's *our* problem, because
we're the ones who will pay and we must be ready to respond.

Some have said Clinton will support a Civil Rights Bill *with*
transgender in it.  I don't believe that.  Has he said that?

Others have told me to be more open-minded with regards to
transgender people.  I am.  But couldn't the same be said
of the handful of transgender activists that demanded that it
be an all-or-nothing agenda?  How about trying to crawl before
walking?  Let's get the main agenda passed first-- specifically
a lesbigay platform-- then fine-tune it where we think we need to.

After speaking with Deborah Bell and others, I have been convinced
to attend even though I don't fully agree with the platform.

See you there.  BTW, I made reservations about 6 weeks ago and
some hotels were fully sold out.  If you haven't gotten around
to it, you better do so soon.

--------------------------------------+---------------------------------------
Jim Yorton                            | 
Motorola Inc., General Systems Sector |
Cellular Infrastructure Group         | Internet:  yorton@rtsg.mot.com
Arlington Heights, IL                 | 
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