HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert Drake)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Re: Hypertext fiction, novels
Date: 16 Nov 1992 01:31:57 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


tim martin asks--
>I am looking for information about hypertext novels.
>Are there any hypertext novels available via ftp?
>Can anyone recommend any hypertext fiction publishers?
>Any of you doing hypertext literature research?

Eastgate Systems has published several hypertext/literatures 
for macintosh--134 Main St., Watertown MA 02172, (617)924-9044.
two examples (written in Eastgate's "Storyspace" environment)
are on a disk that accompanies the Spring '91 issue of "Writing
on the Edge" a scholorly journal of writing & pedagogy--good
articals on HyperText by practioners, as well (available from
EastGate).  have fun!

luigi-bob drake
burning Press
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Re: Toolbook and bitmap image control.
From: bassi@cs.unibo.it (Bruno Bassi)
Date: 19 Nov 92 11:30:04 +0100
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Bologna, Italy

In article <#0w1#ka@rpi.edu> dinsmm@henson.ciue.rpi.edu (Michael Dinsmore) writes:
>Greetings.
>I am wondering if anyone out there has any
>experience dealing with bitmap images in 
>Aysmetrixs Toolbook.  Specifically, I am looking 
>for ways to change a bitmap image to any size I
>want.   However, any other infomation you might have 
>could be useful, so don't hesitate to drop me a line.
>Thank you.
>

Hi,
I haven't found any method to modify the size of bitmaps, it seems
that you can only import them as they are. So I just want to join and
broaden the question:
Beside importing or pasting a bitmap onto a page or background, are
there other ways within Toolbook to display an external image on a page?

Thanks, Bruno
--
                                              ceci n'est pas un .sig virus
-- 
                                             ceci n'est pas une .signature
From: edwardc@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Edward Carter)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Re: Novel navigation techniques
Date: 23 Nov 92 09:56:50 GMT
Reply-To: edwardc@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Edward Carter)
Organization: Dept of AI, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <1992Nov23.021419.22772@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>,
edf250y@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (Andrew Marks) writes:
# Just like developing decision-support systems (effectively), the key
# to building intuitive hypertexts for the reader lies in the developer
# begin able to abstract the cognitive processes that the reader undergoes
# when examining the material.  What connections would this reader logically
# make?  If the proposed audience is a large and varied group, then make
# the links as obvious and objective as possible, then allow the users to
# dynamically add/amend/delete the links.  I'm not sure if many (any?)
# products allow this dynamic structuring though?
# 
# -- 
# Andrew J. Marks
# Student Number: 11278056
# 
# Office: E2.07

The problem with this, as with so many attempts to make Hypertext easier
to use, is that the reader of the Hypertext can't be assumed to have any
knowledge of the information in the HT before they start to use it.

If they don't know the contents of any other node, how can they specify
that they want to go there? Once they *DO* know the layout of the HT,
then any problems they had with navigating, etc. through the HT will
have been sorted out [by defn].

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: chungkuo@ais.org (Shawn FitzGerald)
Subject: Re: The Future of Hypertext
Keywords: hypertext, online information, forecasts, predictions
Organization: UMCC
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 22:35:38 GMT

There is a great deal of information out there about hypertext. There are
also pretty much two different areas in which hypertext is used. For the
majority of the people on the net, and most of those in this group,
hypertext exists as a tool for technologists. Technical writers, engineers,
and the like. There is a second group, not quite so well known, who use
hypertext in a literary fashion.

I come from the second group and will try to speak from that perspective.
There is a wish among many of us that the use of hypertext in literature
will catch on in a big way. Some even predict it replacing the book and
novel as they are now known and starting a revolution of thought. Though
many would hope for such a change, I personally don't see this happening for
quite some time. The factors involved are numerous, and have been debated
over in many published (published: yes; widely distributed: not really)
essays. 

As for the future of hypertext. I see it sticking around in the area of
technological writing, and collaborative engineering projects. As for those
of us writing prose and poetry in this form...who knows? I once compared
those of us writing fiction with hypertext to the impressionist painters. A
brief burst of creation which did not last, but affected in some way all art
to come. I don't know if I still believe this. At any rate, it's an
interesting comparison (*I* think so).

Call me a disgruntled hypertext writer.

-- 
----------
Shawn FitzGerald     UMCC (U of M Computing Club)   Michigan
chungkuo@ais.org     "Whether you are quiet and alive, or
quiet and dead makes no difference to Cerebus."
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: scannon@bluemoon.use.com (Sam Cannon)
Subject: Book available for experimentation
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 11:47:54 EST

Just in case anyone is interested, I re-typed Abe Maslow's
_Eupsychian Management_ book, including the bib into ASCII.
It's wonderfully rich with associations, from Drucker to 
MANY management writers.

 
scannon@bluemoon.use.com        -----------------------------------------
Sam Cannon - CMHC Systems, Inc.  The Eupsychian Network - Abraham Maslow
Dublin, OH (614) 764-0143       -----------------------------------------
                                           
                "Support mental health or I'll kill you"
From: demerit@vms.macc.wisc.edu (J. DeMerit)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Re: Hypertext fiction, novels
Date: 15 Nov 92 20:42:27 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center

In article <martin.721700614@menaik>, martin@cs.UAlberta.CA (Tim Martin; FSO; Soil Sciences) writes...

>I am looking for information about hypertext novels.
>Are there any hypertext novels available via ftp?
>Can anyone recommend any hypertext fiction publishers?
>Any of you doing hypertext literature research
> 

The Voyager Company (in Santa Monica) published quite a few books for the 
Macintosh (I.m not sure about IBM).  Books such as Jurassic Park (spelling?)
Alice in Wonderland and I believe they are doing some Penguin Classics.

They probably know about other publishers as well.
From: langston@memstvx1.memst.edu (Mark C. Langston)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Query systems in HT...
Date: 22 Nov 92 00:44:35 -0600
Distribution: world
Organization: Memphis State University

   Okay.  I have yet to hear of any radical departures from standard HT
navigation techniques.  In the interim, I would be interested in finding
out the group's opinion on something:

  How useable/desirable would you find a navigational interface that would
allow you to form natural language queries through two mouse clicks?  (of
course, such an interface would always allow you to ask any valid question,
relevant to the item you queried, assuming there was an answer to that
question.)
  How desirable would such an interface be if it provided high coherence
between the answer and the question?

Just curious, ;-)


-- 
+--------8<------Cut Here------8<------Cut Here------8<------Cut Here---------+
  Mark C. Langston   |  "Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny."                 
  Psychology Dept.   |  "Always listen to experts.  They'll tell you what can't
  Memphis State U.   |     be done, and why.  Then do it."                      
      "Pftph!"       |           -From the notebooks of Lazarus Long         
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: martin@cs.UAlberta.CA (Tim Martin; FSO; Soil Sciences)
Subject: Re: Novel navigation techniques
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 22:30:22 GMT

langston@memstvx1.memst.edu (Mark C. Langston) writes:

>I woudl be interested in neither a) hearing from people, or b) starting a
                          ^
>discussion, regarding novel navigation techniques in HyperText.  
>....
>What novel, unique methods have been developed for navigation through a
>hypertext?

Hmmm: that one looks pretty novel to me!  :)   Sorry, couldn't resist!
Nothing like a tipo.  :)

Tim.

Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: welch@sacral.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arun Welch)
Subject: NoteCards Grants Program Announcement
Organization: Venue
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:45:36 GMT


In the interest of promoting research into the development and
application of hypertext systems, Venue is pleased to announce the
NoteCards Grant Program. To each of three grants winners Venue will
provide a license to NoteCards Developer, and 3 years maintanence and
support. We are interested in supporting:

o  Innovative applications of hypertext, especially to fields that it
   hasn't been applied to yet.
o  Hypertext program development and implementation
o  Interfaces to hypertext systems.

Interested parties are requested to send email to
NCGrants.mv@envos.xerox.com or to call (415)-508-9672. Deadline for
applications is Jan 15, 1993, and we will inform grantee's by Feb 15,
1993. By surface mail, send to:

	Venue Notecards Grants
	1549 Industrial Road
	San Carlos, CA  94070


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arun Welch
Senior Consultant, Venue
welch.mv@envos.xerox.com, or welch@anzus.com
From: langston@memstvx1.memst.edu (Mark C. Langston)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Re: Novel navigation techniques
Date: 16 Nov 92 01:56:56 GMT
Organization: Memphis State University

In article <martin.721866622@menaik>, martin@cs.UAlberta.CA (Tim Martin; FSO; Soil Sciences) writes:
> langston@memstvx1.memst.edu (Mark C. Langston) writes:
> 
>>I woudl be interested in neither a) hearing from people, or b) starting a
>                           ^
>>discussion, regarding novel navigation techniques in HyperText.  
>>....
>>What novel, unique methods have been developed for navigation through a
>>hypertext?
> 
> Hmmm: that one looks pretty novel to me!  :)   Sorry, couldn't resist!
> Nothing like a tipo.  :)
> 
> Tim.
> 

The joys of the computer age...my pencil never sticks in extra characters...
oh, well.  Freudian slip?  Nah.  I've gotta shield my keyboard cable better...

Hope everyone knows what I meant.  ...And I promise I'll stop writing these
things at 4. in the morning... 

-- 
+--------8<------Cut Here------8<------Cut Here------8<------Cut Here---------+
  Mark C. Langston   |  "Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny."                 
  Psychology Dept.   |  "Always listen to experts.  They'll tell you what can't
  Memphis State U.   |     be done, and why.  Then do it."                      
      "Pftph!"       |           -From the notebooks of Lazarus Long         
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: chungkuo@ais.org (Shawn FitzGerald)
Subject: Re: Hypertext fiction, novels
Organization: UMCC
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 22:12:04 GMT

There is at least one hypertext piece availible through FTP--mine. It's a
poem which also appeared in the "After the Book" issue of Perforations. You
can get it by FTPing to ais.org and greabbing the file
/pub/hypertext/yetstillmore.sea.hqx.

The file is in BinHex format and needs to be decoded. The decoded file is
self-extracting. The file is a self contained reader created with Storyspace
for the Macintosh.


-- 
----------
Shawn FitzGerald     UMCC (U of M Computing Club)   Michigan
chungkuo@ais.org     "Whether you are quiet and alive, or
quiet and dead makes no difference to Cerebus."
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: edf250y@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (Andrew Marks)
Subject: Re: MSDOS hypertext with images
Organization: Monash University, Caulfield Campus
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 02:17:34 GMT

rarosenb@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Robert Rosenberg) writes:


>Is there any MSDOS hypertext program that will embed images as well as
>text in the file?  Please?  Shareware, costware, anyware, idontcare--
>I kind of NEED it.  Email answer easier than posted answer.

>Thank you.

One of the best hypertext products I have seen is one called
``Black Magic'' - it's either shareware or PD (shareware I think), and
is readily available on the net... And, yes, it can include images as well
as text!

-- 
Andrew J. Marks
Student Number: 11278056

Office: E2.07
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: chungkuo@ais.org (Shawn FitzGerald)
Subject: Re: What does the HT community look like?
Organization: UMCC
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 22:45:35 GMT

In article <1992Nov14.093343.1741@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu> dtalmage@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes:
>Who can point me to current statistics about the hypertext community?  
>I'd like to know
>
>	o How many people use hypertext?
>	o On what hardware platforms are they using it?
>	o What ht software are people using?
>

HA HA HA!

Sorry, this really isn't a flame. I have just never seen this question asked
by anyone. DOES this information really exist???

Here are my own guesses:

1) Who knows? The people who use hypertext as a literary medium probably
number under 50 (and even that may be a generous guess). Of those, probably a
couple dozen or so are loosely connected and know who each other are.

2) I know of hypertext software for Unix, Macintosh, and DOS. Though, I'd
have to say the only GOOD one I've used is Storyspace for the Mac.

3) I use Storyspace.


-- 
----------
Shawn FitzGerald     UMCC (U of M Computing Club)   Michigan
chungkuo@ais.org     "Whether you are quiet and alive, or
quiet and dead makes no difference to Cerebus."
From: rarosenb@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Robert Rosenberg)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: MSDOS hypertext with images
Date: 21 Nov 92 06:30:33 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


Is there any MSDOS hypertext program that will embed images as well as
text in the file?  Please?  Shareware, costware, anyware, idontcare--
I kind of NEED it.  Email answer easier than posted answer.

Thank you.
From: dgd@csd.bu.edu (David Durand)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Re: Hypertext fiction, novels
Date: 21 Nov 92 17:19:22 GMT
Organization: Roberstool Research Labs
In-reply-to: martin@cs.UAlberta.CA's message of 17 Nov 92 00:16:58 GMT

In article <martin.721959418@menaik> martin@cs.UAlberta.CA (Tim Martin; FSO; Soil Sciences) writes:

   demerit@vms.macc.wisc.edu (J. DeMerit) writes:

   >In article <martin.721700614@menaik>, martin@cs.UAlberta.CA (Tim Martin; FSO; Soil Sciences) writes...

   >>I am looking for information about hypertext novels.
   >> 

   >The Voyager Company (in Santa Monica) published quite a few books for the 
   >Macintosh (I.m not sure about IBM).  Books such as Jurassic Park (spelling?)
   >Alice in Wonderland and I believe they are doing some Penguin Classics.

   Thanks.  I'm also thinking along the lines of new fiction, written
   specifically to take advantage of the hypertext format.  Maybe some 
   adventure games are close to what I have in mind, though few (none?)
   have much literary merit, and they all tend to be of the same gendre.
   I'm thinking of open-ended, multipath fiction, not restricted by
   the bounds of binding or printed page.  But maybe I am making assumtions:
   "Alice" could certainly be fit into the format I have in mind.  I'll 
   have to check it out.

   Tim.

  Check out the hypertext novels published by Eastgate Systems, the
people who sell Storyspace. They have a range of "literary" hypertexts
available for sale. In addition they're worth reading on their own
merits, not just as "examples". Eastgate can be reached at:
 PO Box 1307,
 Cambridge, MA 02238
 (617)-924-9044

While I know the people at Eastgate, I receive no copensation, etc
from them. I just think their stuff is good.

   -- David
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: bdowning@unixland.natick.ma.us (Bill Downing)
Subject: Re: Query systems in HT...
Organization: Unixland Public Access Unix & Think_Tank BBS
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:23:26 GMT

In article <1992Nov22.004435.4173@memstvx1.memst.edu> langston@memstvx1.memst.edu (Mark C. Langston) writes:
>   Okay.  I have yet to hear of any radical departures from standard HT
>navigation techniques.  In the interim, I would be interested in finding
>out the group's opinion on something:
>
>  How useable/desirable would you find a navigational interface that would
>allow you to form natural language queries through two mouse clicks?  (of
>course, such an interface would always allow you to ask any valid question,
>relevant to the item you queried, assuming there was an answer to that
>question.)
>  How desirable would such an interface be if it provided high coherence
>between the answer and the question?
>
>Just curious, ;-)
>
>

Can you give an example of this? I know a commercial user of a
Hyplus-based application who might be able to give you some
feedback...


-- 
Bill Downing, President		Email: bdowning@unixland.natick.ma.us		
DOWNING ASSOCIATES, INC.
8 Doyle Lane, Hopkinton, MA 01748
508-435-4567
From: tijoma@uta.fi (Jorma M{ntyl{)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Re: Hypertext fiction, novels
Date: 20 Nov 92 11:23:23 GMT
Organization: University of Tampere, Finland

The University of Tampere, dept. of literature in the faculty of humanities
plans to publish an experimental hypermedia detective-story.  It should be
available within coming months, in Finnish, of course  8-)

BTW, our department of journalism & mass communications plans to publish
"Yliopistouutiset" (=University News, university publication mainly for the
staff) in hypermedia form during December and January.  I am rather sure
this is the first regularly "published" hypermedia publication in Finland.
Are there any similar experiments in other countries?  Please e-mail - I'd like
to exchange experience.

#Jorma Mantyla
#Univ. of Tampere
#Dept. of journalism & mass communication
#Finland


Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: olson@mydual.uucp (Kirtland H. Olson)
Subject: Re: Novel navigation techniques
Reply-To:  olson%mydual.uucp@alliant.com
Organization: The Harvard Group, 01451-0667
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:55:29 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.004816.4084@memstvx1.memst.edu> langston@memstvx1.memst.edu (Mark C. Langston) writes:


>I would be interested in... 
>discussion, regarding novel navigation techniques in HyperText.  By _novel_
>I mean something other than a simple keyword->link->node path, something
>other than simple index or 'overviews', something other than simple
>backtracking or page flipping.  

First, a general comment:  expressed as k->l->n the only choice seems to me
to be the character of the link.  (I am considering keywords and hot
spots on graphics screens to be functionally identical.)  Comments on
this assumption would be helpful to me.

Variations in links include:

  o  Glossary function of MaxThink HyGlos

      -Locate all references to word & show adjacent words

  o  Aliasing in Flambeaux Xtext

      -Call a file by another name

  o  Scripting in Apple HyperCard, Brightbill-Roberts HyperPad, etc.

      -Change to another independent track through the infobase

  o  Prolog decision capability of Cogent Software HyperBase

      -Allows use of AI to alter choices based on prior choices

  o  Call another system as in WAIS

      -Enter another thought space with another organization

  o  Boolean search in Anthony Hursh's Bdexx

      -Find a starting point combining two or more words

  o  See Also functions in Norton Guides and Tom Rettig Help

      -Menu items that move to related subsections

  o  Call an external program as in MaxThink HyPlus

      -Run another program and return (slideshow, database, etc.)

All of these variations depend on the support of the underlying engine.

Except for calling an external program, I don't see where I would end up
except at a node.  In fact, I want to find a way to make the external
program return a node address to HyPlus.  

Does this address the point?  What else should I look at?  Are the
starting and ending points less fixed than I imagine?  Are there links I
do not know of?  




-- 
Kirtland H. Olson                     olson%mydual.uucp@alliant.com
From: kurtg@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Re: Novel navigation techniques
Date: 16 Nov 92 17:32:27 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <1992Nov15.004816.4084@memstvx1.memst.edu>, langston@memstvx1.memst.edu (Mark C. Langston) writes:
> What novel, unique methods have been developed for navigation through a
> hypertext?

Ted Nelson always talks about "stretchable text": You can picture each
text as a box.  If you grab an edge and pull it, making the box
bigger, additional levels of detail will grow from the text (and you
can shrink, of course).  For intance, your sentences will become
paragraphs, will become sections, will become chapters, will become
books, etc.

I've never heard of it being implemented.  It sounds a little goofy
to me --- I'd hate to be the author who had to write infinitely
descending levels of detail...

-- 
Kurt A. Geisel                        SNAIL : 65 Lambeth Dr.
Intelligent Technology Group                  Pittsburgh, PA 15241
ARPA2 : kurtg@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu  BIX   : kgeisel
GENIE : K.GEISEL                      AIR   : NF3JTW
"I will not be pushed, filed, indexed, stamped, briefed, debriefed, or
numbered!" - The Prisoner
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: martin@cs.UAlberta.CA (Tim Martin; FSO; Soil Sciences)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Re: Hypertext fiction, novels
Date: 17 Nov 92 00:16:58 GMT
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada

demerit@vms.macc.wisc.edu (J. DeMerit) writes:

>In article <martin.721700614@menaik>, martin@cs.UAlberta.CA (Tim Martin; FSO; Soil Sciences) writes...

>>I am looking for information about hypertext novels.
>> 

>The Voyager Company (in Santa Monica) published quite a few books for the 
>Macintosh (I.m not sure about IBM).  Books such as Jurassic Park (spelling?)
>Alice in Wonderland and I believe they are doing some Penguin Classics.

Thanks.  I'm also thinking along the lines of new fiction, written
specifically to take advantage of the hypertext format.  Maybe some 
adventure games are close to what I have in mind, though few (none?)
have much literary merit, and they all tend to be of the same gendre.
I'm thinking of open-ended, multipath fiction, not restricted by
the bounds of binding or printed page.  But maybe I am making assumtions:
"Alice" could certainly be fit into the format I have in mind.  I'll 
have to check it out.
 
Tim.
 
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: edf250y@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (Andrew Marks)
Subject: Re: Novel navigation techniques
Organization: Monash University, Caulfield Campus
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 02:14:19 GMT

Just like developing decision-support systems (effectively), the key
to building intuitive hypertexts for the reader lies in the developer
begin able to abstract the cognitive processes that the reader undergoes
when examining the material.  What connections would this reader logically
make?  If the proposed audience is a large and varied group, then make
the links as obvious and objective as possible, then allow the users to
dynamically add/amend/delete the links.  I'm not sure if many (any?)
products allow this dynamic structuring though?

-- 
Andrew J. Marks
Student Number: 11278056

Office: E2.07
Xref: sparky alt.hypertext:914 comp.lang.misc:3799