HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: godura@sol.cis.udel.edu (Ruchir Godura)
Subject: Re: Did you call Pakistani Consulate ? (Re: Killings in Paki
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:00:22 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.145134.22004@usl.edu> sgs@ucs.usl.edu (Sudhindranath SG) writes:
>In article <168B9CC1B.THAHARA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu> THAHARA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu writes:
>>In article <1992Dec9.164843.14187@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>
>
>What Ms. Shyamala _could_ have done was to post articles on 
>soc.culture.pakistan and soc.culture.bangladesh with a similar
>appeal to the netters there. (I am sure it is not stupid to make
>such an appeal). 
>
>But then, that would depend on whether it suited the political plans of 
>our Ms. Mamta Banerjee-in-the-making...
>
>>>Alok
>> 
>>Harsh
>
>Regards,
>
>--Sudhi.
Amazing ! Incredible ! Not one word .. not one single phrase..
How could you, sudhi, how could you write all of ten lines without
accusing Nehru/IG/RG even ONCE for the ills of India and the world ?
Didn't your spirit revolt ?
Ruchir.

-- 
Ruchir Godura | godura@cis.udel.edu | (302) 292-0668 (H) (302) 831-1949 (W)
From: arun@pyramid.unr.edu (Saravanan Arunachalam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Temple Construction
Date: 13 Dec 92 19:26:42 GMT
Organization: University of Nevada, Reno  Department of Computer Science

Hai surya,

            This is Vimal, You can rebuilt the temple or mosque or church
or another gurudwara. It doesn't really matters. What about the lost
lives.Kill these religous fenatics.India is a country  of people consist
of all relegion.Its a seculared Nation. Some dirty  politicians are taking
advantage of it.   
  
  

           
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: raghu@nairobi.eecs.umich.edu (Raghu Mani)
Subject: Re: Sati's history
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:03:26 GMT

In article <28126@optima.cs.arizona.edu>, mazhar@cs.arizona.edu (Mazhar N Mohammed) writes:
|> > >the real purpose of religion. Let us take Sati for instance. The practice of
|> > >Sati in not one of the basic tenets of hinduism. It was started because the
|> > >Muslim invaders after winning a battle sexually assaulted the women of the
|> > >palace and made them their slaves. To preserve their honour the women started
|> > >practising Sati. When the britishers came and such acts of barbariasm became
|> > >rare it was again a hindu reformer, Raja Rahmohan Roy who asked that principles
|> 
|> One of King Pandu's wives, Madri committed sati (at least that's what the 
|> scripture says). Are you implying that the Muslims came before that ?? :)
|> 
|> Mazhar...
|> --
|> 

That is quite correct. However, most historical evidence seems to suggest that the
practice of Sati was purely voluntary and it was by no means mandatory for a woman
to kill herself on her husband's funeral pyre. Note that another of Pandu's wives,
Kunti, did not commit Sati. Forced Sati, according to many, started after the Muslim 
invasion (I don't vouch for that statement because I haven't examined any reliable 
historical sources about this). Anyway, it does not say anywhere in any Hindu 
religious text that a woman *must* commit Sati on the death of her husband.

Raghu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: sjayanth@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Satyanand V. Jayanthi)
Subject: patriotism..and indian muslims..etc.
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 09:11:20 GMT

Article 54458 of soc.culture.indian:
Xref: ringer soc.culture.indian:54458 soc.culture.indian.telugu:1530
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Wednesday, 16 Dec 1992 18:05:42 CST
From: <U58555@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Talk about secularism

Does anybody there belive USA is a secular country. If u do u are totally
wrong. USA is a Christian country. Every citizen of this country has to
take a oath that he belives in chritianity if she/he were to live here.
      Neither is Britain. It is a Christian country again. These guys who
do not have the least idea about India and talk about the secularism in India.
I think CNN was giving a biased opinion about the things going on in India.


First of all the mosque.

     * It should be mentioned that it was a "BETRAYED OR ABANDANDED"mosque
       where no prayer was conducted what so ever was abolished.

     * Telling it as 16th century mosque and making it more interesting
       which causes to spread more hatred. It might have been a 10 century
       temple before that. what do u say for that.

One will agree things were politicised in India, I wonder what made the CNN
guys give a biased/incomplete information. That was too bad for their
reputation.
     India has sustained a lot regarding the suppression. Especially hindus
have. Infact secularism has been a costly sacrifice for indians, one of the
main resons for it to be developing country. Every develped country in this
world has its own religion. Take Germany, Isreal,etc..
   One can't make general rules, more loop holes come into picture with
secularism, law has loop holes, and there are always politicians to take
advantage of these situations.
   It is about time for India to discard the      pseudo secularism and go
for a better future.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
From: sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani)
Subject: Re: Who's doing the killings...
Summary: so it is settled!
Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept.
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 23:23:37 GMT

In article <limq18INN50g@pageboy.cs.utexas.edu>, hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder) writes:
> In article <1992Dec13.053710.10311@sol.cs.wmich.edu> sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani) writes:
> >
> > I am sorry, but you seem paranoid in this article. I dont see any
> >connection between 
> >my statement that 
> >
> >  "I dont follow any religion"
> >
> > and your statment that 
> >  "I follow religion of self-profit."
> 
> Sorry. My posts are "never" intended at the person to whose
> post I am replying.  I think my post made it absolutely
> clear that  I was only referring to the religion of non-religion
>  whose prophets were  Adam Smith and Karl Marx and the followers 
> of those religions. 
> 
> If you are not among their follower, then there
> is nothing to be upset. 
> 
> P.S.
> 
> Please go back to the posting and you will see that I never
> used the sentence
> 
> >  "I follow religion of self-profit."
> 
> In fact I didn't even use the pronouns "I" or "You".
> For refreshing the memory, I was only in the third person
> as seen below:
> > Let's also include in this list of religions, the religion of
> > self-profit or the religion of non-religion.
> > This is the religion whose prophet was
> > Adam Smith. Of course, there was another religion
> > whose prophet was Karl Marx. Although, the latter religion is
> > now even extinct in its birth place, the other is still out there.
> 

Okay so it is settled. No hard feelings.

I would still like to know, how can we conclude that

 Religion of NO-RELIGION is a religion of SELF-PROFIT.

Can you eloborate ?

regards,

-Naveed
From: satnam@eb4ts1.EBay.Sun.COM (Parmjit Gill)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Sati and Sikhism
Date: 18 Dec 1992 03:22:35 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Mt. View, Ca.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: satnam@eb4ts1.EBay.Sun.COM (Parmjit Gill)
NNTP-Posting-Host: eb4ts1.ebay.sun.com


    Sati is against Sikhism. Guru Nanak and Second Guru Angad Dev 
    Ji raise their voice against it. But third Guru Amar Das Ji 
    raised the voice at big level and encourged the Widow Merriage.
    I don't know but Punna (page ) it is on but it is in Guru Granth 
    Sahib. Here is Bani of Gurus that condem the Sati. 

	"Satian sa na akhian , jo murhian lag jalan, 
	Satian sai Nanaka , jo birha chot mran , 
	Sa bhi satian akhian, nal seel santokh rahen"   

	
	Don't call those women Saties , one who died in fire
	with their husband, Saties are those who dies of 
	shock of saparateism (Birha,Bichora) from their husband ..
	Call them Saties too , the ones who do not die but stay
	in God ' Will.  


Parmjit Gill
From: rajat@sunny3.che.clarkson.edu (Rajat Kapoor)
Subject: Narrow Hindu Beliefs- was- Ram (Was he Fact or Fiction)??
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:38:54 GMT

>> 
>> As fas as I know "RAM" was just a fictitious creation. Was there for
>> real a Ram, a Ravan...etc...........
> 

 I`ve noticed certain beliefs amongst Hindus border on being outright 
 incredulous. One of them being the conviction that the events described
 in Ramayan or Mahabharat are factual to the word, and any suggestion
 to the contrary is unacceptable. 
 
 The most outrageous of all is the belief that events described in these
 books took place millions of years ago - and certainly not in the last
 10,000 years.  ( Please, I want to stay clear of Indus Valley/Arayan
 culture angle)

 Per known facts, Mahabharat and Ramayan were written in 400 and 300 BC,
 and were subsequently modified, so much so, that the versions by 100 AD
 brought the characters together, not to mention Ram was by then
 introduced as an Avtar of Vishnu.

 And these beliefs pervade through the highly educated as well. 
 Perhaps, the answer lies in childhood environment.  In traditional
 families, especially the more religious ones, such beliefs are sown
 early, fastidous enough for the children not to question the "values" in
 adulthood, or better still, pass them on to the next generation.

 A vicious circle.  To escape is our choice.

 Similar streaks can be seen among Christians, Moslems or any other
 religion.  Every generation allows more to break free the schakles
 of belief. If ignored, one sinks into the abyss of fanaticsm.

 Rajat Kapoor
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:41006 soc.culture.pakistan:18271
From: mkakulav@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mohan Kakulavarapu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: "...... to castrate the Hindus ..."
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:15:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: constell.BzCvLI.2Kv
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA



good job neeraj
keep it up

******
From: kavuri@lips1.ecn.purdue.edu (Surya N Kavuri )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Temple reconstruction - Any one ?
Date: 11 Dec 92 19:11:23 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network


  Is Pakistan, Bangladesh or Hindustan (sic!) making any commitment
  to at least reconstruct some of the temples lost ?

  I have seen people saying it is the lost lives that we should
  mourn for and not the lost shrines.  Loosing shrines is another
  form of death - death of their religious belief which has 
  moulded (at least indirectly) the morality and outlook of those        
  peoples. Rape for example, may not be death but is still 
  a moral outrage (call it a "right", if you will).

Surya
From: news@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: ahem
Date: 11 Dec 92 19:28:48 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.indian
Organization: Michigan State University

roomi, you there?
From: mece1e3@Jane.UH.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: progress in India!
Date: 18 Dec 1992 21:32:09 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
Reply-To: mece1e3@Jane.UH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu

>|> 
>|> The queen !!!  		Bring back the queen's rule !!!  (If she gets kicked out
>|> of GB, then let us make her OUR queen..>!!!)
>
>There's already one imperious lady out of a job now -- Maggie Thatcher. Let's
Wonderful idea: Settles the question of democracy and let her make the God
incarnate a la Shinto religion and settle the question of secularism
Arindam

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
From: godura@hercules.cis.udel.edu (Ruchir Godura)
Subject: Re: "...... to castrate the Hindus ..."
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 04:43:40 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.212714.905@u.washington.edu> qzuhair@milton.u.washington.edu (Newton) writes:
>In article <1992Dec13.153757.2511@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> nrai@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (neeraj.rai) writes:
>
>and rituals of hinduism, but from what you have stated above, it seems that
>the laws of hinduism and its rituals were changed in the past and are still 
>being modified. But, an essential feature of religous doctrines should be
>that those doctrines are appliciable in all times and only then the 
>completeness of the basic religous principles is assured. SO,  why the
>doctrines of hinduism were modified in various ages?
>
>
>NEWTON...(just curious)
>
That is exactly what is right with Hinduism. I dislike pointing out what
I perceive as flaws in other religions publicly, but, since you have
touched the topic, here goes.
First of all, sati was never a part of hinduism. Please have the sense
to differentiate between social practices that developed in parts of a
hindu society, and actual practices sanctioned by our holy books.
As far as change goes, it is the greatness of this religion to tolerate
all change as is percieved necessary by enlightened individuals. These
changes brought about by reformers do not affect hinduism as such,
because they mostly relate to social practices, and are thus not a part
of the religion.
The notion that what was written by some wise man hundreds of years ago,
will be valid for all time is foolish.There will be hundreds of muslims
that will cry themselves hoarse that the Quran is the answer to all
problems in society for ever more. But look at it yourself. Are there no
banks in Isalmic countries ? Don't they charge interest ? What is it
that your religion says about inteest? 
Look at the position of women in islamic societies ? Oh they are fine,
you will say. Who's asking you ? I would like a muslim woman to answer
that.
Do you cut off the hands and ears and balls or whatever of thieves, as
is directed in the Quran ?
Look at the middle east. They have an embarrasment of wealth, and they
are still such backward societies. It is because islam is so inflexible
.. or rather, the mullahs who run islamic societies, and bestow upon
themselves the undisputed right to interpret the Quran, are so
inflexible.
The sooner you realise that the world is changing, and that the only
thing of value the religious books can give is messages of peace and
tolerance (which are timeless), the sooner will islamic societies be
looke upon by the rest of the world as de`veloped societies.
Ruchir.
:w

>
>
>
>
>

-- 
Ruchir Godura | godura@cis.udel.edu | (302) 292-0668 (H) (302) 831-1949 (W)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: ssr39687@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Cannibal Hannibal)
Subject: Travel Agent List
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 01:56:31 GMT

Could someone please mail it to me? I'd really appreciate it.
From: banerji@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Pratip K. Banerji)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Calcutta news (some more)
Date: 11 Dec 1992 20:37:10 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In article <1ganuqINNi0e@roundup.crhc.uiuc.edu> sunder@grusin.crhc.uiuc.edu (Srinivas Sunder) writes:

>The Globe also reported that the MIT Indian and Pakistani students 
>association held a silent vigil to protest the goings-on in India 
>which turned out to be not-so-silent when a person whom by brother
>describes as MIT's own professional protester began blaring out some
>stuff in a loudspeaker which the Globe reporter mistook for sectarian
>infighting between campus Hindus and Muslims over Ayodhya and reported
>as a sidebar in the article on India.

The disagreement was over whether or not the vigil would be silent. On
the previous night we had voted that the vigil would be silent. The
graduate student with the loudspeaker had been in the minority that
had voted that he wanted to voice his opinions during the vigil.
During the vigil he chose to walk with us anyway, although when we saw
him with his loudspeaker, we asked him to either put it away or not
walk WITH us. He refused. It was frustrating - the man was quite
immature and unreasonable. 


-- 
------------
Pratip K. Banerji
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
banerji@athena.mit.edu, banerji@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: aptev@nuge102.its.rpi.edu (thinker)
Subject: constant nonsense on this newsgroup...
Reply-To: aptev@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:59:01 GMT

Why is  this  newsgroup used as a place  to  vent all forms  of racial
anger? don't people have  better things to  do? or is it  just  me?  I
have subscribed to this newsgroup for over a month, and more than half
of  all  postings  here  have been flames..It just seems  strange that
people have so much spare time to be nasty all the time..

thinker
_______________________________________________________________________

Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute		aptev@rpi.edu
Troy, NY 12180-3590				Vishal_Apte@MTS.RPI.EDU
_______________________________________________________________________

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: aluru@IASTATE.EDU (Srinivas Aluru)
Subject: Visa Query
Reply-To: aluru@IASTATE.EDU (Srinivas Aluru)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:44:40 GMT

A multiple H-1 is going to India to marry. What documents does he need to
take for his wife to apply for a H-4 at India (Madras)?

Thanks for your replies. Will post a summary...

-aluru
From: bhatnagr@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Raj Bhatnagar)
Subject: Re: Riots in India - 1947, 1984, 1992
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 04:28:36 GMT

In article <1girsdINNcv8@sor.crhc.uiuc.edu> sunder@crhc.uiuc.edu (Srinivas Sunder) writes:
>indu@iss700.Columbia.NCR.COM () writes:



>> parliamentary sessions with Vandemataram, and the whole ISLAM APPEASING, 
>> MUSLIM  VOTE BANK ass licking SECURALIST  Members of Parliament
>> of our BELOVED nation  have  accepted to such things. ( I guess November'92). 
>>BJP and  Shiva Sena staged a walk out)
>
>Without commenting on the rest of Indu's post, I'd like to focus in on this
>part. I'm curious: What reason was advanced by the MP's who were against the
>starting of parliamentary sessions with Vande Mataram? 

Suleiman Sait and Shahabuddin were the MPs who opposed the singing of
Vande Mataram in Parliament. The reason was that they considered it a
non-secular song. Why non-secular? one can only guess. But some others
in the past have given the reason that to praise "Bharat Mata" is equivalent
to idolatory and hence against Islam - In Islam only God can be praised.
But then, to say the Jay of "jan gaNa Man Adhinayak" or Pakistan or
the slogan "Shahabuddin Zindabad"  are all equally idolatororus.

The speaker, in response to the objections had ruled that Vande mataram 
be sung at the end of the session and not its beginning. Well, then
it seems that it is alright to do non-secular things at the end of a 
parliamentary session but not at its beginning. Its a difficult ruling
to understand.


---raj

>-srinivas
>-- 
>Srinivas Sunder                                         sunder@crhc.uiuc.edu
>


Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: kazi@hercules.cis.udel.edu (Zunaid Kazi)
Subject: Re: Mandir/Maszid/Girza/Gurudwara
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:48:09 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.142252@IASTATE.EDU> aluru@IASTATE.EDU (Srinivas Aluru) writes:
>In article <1gar4cINN2am@alhena.usc.edu>, sadhal@alhena.usc.edu (Sati Sadhal)
>writes:
>> In article <11DEC199212381450@vx.cis.umn.edu> secular@love.and.respect.for.all
>writes:
>> 
>> 
>> [...... deleted.....]
>> 
>> >that one religion is better than the other.  Let's build the 
>> >world's first *multireligious shrine* at the site.  Let's make the
>> >BIGGEST and the most BEAUTIFUL Hindu temple, Moslem Mosque, 
>> >Sikh Gurudwara, and Christian Church side by side as four 
>> >corners of a square.  That would be a perfect salute to 
>> >secularism and (hopefully) also satisfy the Hindu fundamentalists
>> >and BabriMaszid faithfuls alike.
>> >
[Lot's of support deleted for brevity] 
>
>How about a pentagon with a fifth corner devoted to atheists like me ...
>We need to be represented too.  We need a place where we can meet and discuss
>the stupidity of the people who follow `religious books' rather than think...
>

Maybe a sixth, for people who don't care whether a God [or Gods] exists
or not.

- Zunaid Kazi
  kazi@cis.udel.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
From: narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana)
Subject: Re: Why did Muhammad Break Temples
Organization: Penn State Computer Science
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 14:39:22 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.202832.119630@marshall.wvnet.edu> yea027@marshall.wvnet.edu writes:
>In Response to an article on the Indian net:
>
>Please tell me which temples Muhammad broke? I really am not familiar with
>this.  Muhammad broke IDOLS so to get people to worship the one ALLAH that has
>no partners.  Idol worship takes people from the true path of GOD Allah 
>and takes them to polytheism and thinking that a statue can help them.
>

Actually there is a parallel to this! We have one dravidian racist known as
EVR and his followers who went and broke the idols in temples. But they
were doing it to show their hatred for Brahmins. Was this idol breaking
by mohammad some sort of hate release exercise of him and his followers.
But if allah is one, why did not mohammad consider that all idols are
nothing bu t allah. What is this excuse that you are offereing for
mohammad who went and broke idols.

>A Mosque is a holy house of Allah.  When Muhammad went to the Ka'ba, he DID not
>distroy the Ka'ba that housed the mutliple 'gods' but rather tore down the
>idols that stood in it.
>
>

..kt
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: mrv@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (madhukar.r.vadyala)
Subject: Re: Hindus and Tolerance
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:43:15 GMT

If you think I will be happy and content over   hindus getting killed
as long as some muslims also die in the process, then you are missing
the point here.  With the same token, do you relish, if i showed
you the reports of hindus and sikhs being killed  by terrorists in punjab ?

>>Some people on the net have even gone the extent of declaring that
>>how they are ashamed of being hindus and indians.  I guess these
>>guys may also one day be ashamed of their mothers too.
>>
>>It is this silence and tolerance that have resulted  in our ass
>>getting kicked by Gaznis, Babers, Goris and  just  about everybody else and
>>we still are working towards making sure that our future generations
>>also get theirs kicked.
>>
>>I think this is the definition of tolerance and hinduism.
>>
>>We should first learn to  respect our religion and culture.
>>				      ====================
>>
>>I am proud to be an Indian  and  a Hindu
>>
>>
>>
>>Madhukar Reddy.
>>
>>========
>>Standard Disclaimer applies.
>>==========
>	Mr Reddy you have a lot to be proud of as you can see.
>from the news reports. First it was the sikhs in 1984 and now this .
> mandeep
> 

	Why do you draw conclusion about the things that were not
mentioned in my article.  I did not say that i was proud of 1984 riots
or even the current riots.  But that does not make me ashamed to be an
indian and hindu.  I will always be proud to be an Indian and a hindu, because
i beleive in it.
 

---Madhukar Reddy
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian