HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: reading / FAQ projects (was Re: Silver cord)
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:20:40 GMT
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science

In article <1992Nov15.024008.22902@gnosys.svle.ma.us>, gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us (Gary S. Trujillo) writes in part:
|> In <1992Nov13.170729.8639@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
|> 	(Robert McGrath) writes:
|> 
|> > In article <hawleylm-111192170558@hawley.apple.com>, hawleylm@apple.com
|> 	(Lorin Hawley) writes in part:
|> 
|> >> ...Moody and Morse (and Kubler-Ross) ...  have been swayed to the belief that
|> >> there is a "something" that leaves the body and survives physical death.
|> 
|> > A very nice phrasing.  They have been "swayed to the belief".  This
|> > is not a "scientific" position.  It is perfectly reasonable for
|> > "scientists" to have and express convictions, but their convictions
|> > are no more "valid" than anyone else's unless it is backed by
|> > "scientific" argument.
|> 
|> Rather than continuing this "yes-no" kind of discussion, I suggest that we
|> undertake to actually read what the above-cited authors have actually
|> written, and how they support whatever views they currently hold.  
[...]
|> Really, folks - why can't those of us who are interested just go out and
|> spend some time actually reading what these people have to say, so we can
|> have an informed discussion, rather than just exchanging personal opinion,
|> laced with slurs on one another and our gullibility or enslavement to some
|> outmoded scientific paradigm?  

Hmm.  I thought LH and I were discussing something we had read and were
informed about.  And I didn't notice any slurs in anything either one of 
us said.  Not until someone decided to wave around words like "gullibility",
"enslavement" and "outmoded scientific paradigm".  Maybe you could just
butt-out of this conversation, GST, LH and I were proceeding just fine
without you telling us how to conduct our conversation.

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: Tarzan
Subject: Re: OOBE or just vivid imagination
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:19:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.201733.22296@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert
McGrath) writes:
>|> In article <1992Nov09.191818.23121@news.mentorg.com>
garyk@garyk.mentorg.com
>|>      (Gary Kaminski) writes:
>|> > In article <1992Nov8.073403.4318@gnosys.svle.ma.us>,
gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us
>|>      (Gary S. Trujillo) writes:
>|> 
>|> >> What do others feel on this...


.....much! deleted. .................

  How can
>you justify rejecting ideas that you haven't even tried to understand?
>This sounds like pure bigotry to me.
>
>-- 
>  Robert E. McGrath
>  Urbana Illinois
>  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
>
>
>	Robert I hate to say this because I am trying to do better on the net but I
would like to point out that you seem to neglect all the positive evidence for
OOBE's (of which I can't quote any right now, you're much better at quoting
sources) and tend to play the devil's advocate.  This can be good but you tend
to 'label' others ideas and word of mouth evidence as bunk.  This is fine and
all but it can be very agressive sounding.

"It is not "denigrating"
to examine subjective experiences from points of view other than
absolute, naive, trust."
	
	You're right but it honestly seems that you view most opinions and posts as
coming from people who believe 100 percent with out question in OOB phenomenon
as a way of life.  And that these people use no judgement in their lives.  Most
are just presenting what they have experienced thus far in this life and are
searching for constructive criticism or comments as to what they have
presented.  We need to keep open minds and hearts or a lot of people will leave
this group   in search of other support groups.



This is your position.  Try not to impose it on others.""

	An example;  The above person was not trying to impose their view.  Merely
stating what they believe.  Your response sounded agressive and unfriendly. 
Not to say that you meant it that way.


> Is
>your world view threatened by the fact that scientific evidence
>doesn't quite agree with all of your imaginings?



	Robert, imaginings?   Do you see what I mean?  Please do not take this
offensively because I did not mean it that way.  Let's work hard toward
positive constructive attitudes toward each others ramblings.  It helps.  Maybe
we'll get somewhere.  Tonight I am going to write a letter to the Monroe Inst.

										Tarzan.


Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: russjc@ocf.berkeley.edu (Russ J. Cucina)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re:  Joint oobe experiment anyone  ??
Date: 23 Nov 1992 20:35:48 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: whirlwind.berkeley.edu



Good idea. Novice oobe'ers could get help, and experienced oobe'ers could
bring more people into the 'community'.

Incidentally, I am in the former catagory. I have been attempting oobe for
three years now, without success. I had one case where I 'knew' somthing
about where I had tried to go, without really thinking I had gone there, and
another case where my friend 'could have sworn' I was in the room I was
trying to oobe to, although again I was not aware of any travel or unusual
sensation. I have been following a pretty structured program from a book,
which has lots of breathing exercises, visualizations, and some Americanized
treatment of the chakras. I am really not interested in the quasi-Religious
aspects, but rather the experience of oobe, the practice of it, and the
exploration of the possible cosmomological ramifications.

If anyone has suggestions to help break my 3 year rut o' failures, they are
greatly appreciated.

And, I would like to participate in an OOBE experiment. Good idea.

________________________________________
All the disclaimers :)
Good day.

Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: peterf@ariel.yorku.ca (Peter Forth)
Subject: Re: OOBE or just vivid imagination
Originator: peterf@juno.ariel.yorku.ca
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Distribution: york
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 01:49:35 GMT


I have been haphazardly following this newgroup for a while now but have missed
a fair number of the postings since the newgroups bandwidth rather exceeds the
bandwidth of my own free time, so forgive me if my post is recovering old
ground.

Basically I percieve two sides to the argument:

1) OOBE's are imaginary.  That is to say an OOBE consists of reordering and
replaying old memories in a creative, vivid, coeherant fashion.  The entire
experience consists of either old sensory "input" (memories), variations on that input that come from natural extrapolation and entirely new but entirely imaginary input.

2) OOBE's provide a method outside the usual 5 senses to obtain new, current
input from ones surroundings.  Whether anything actually leaves the body is
debatable but really beside the point.

I currently support the first of the two options but would very much like to
be persuaded into supporting the second.  This is not however necessarily
going to be an easy thing to do.  Firstly I know no one (including myself) that
has ever experienced an OOBE.  Furthermore it seems to me that if the second
option was true and worked in a reliable and consistant fashion, it should be fairly easy to "prove" that it worked (just get a friend and a deck of cards).

I welcome any new information that anyone has to share with me on the subject.

Peter R. Forth
peterf@ariel.yorku.ca
From: locatech@tron.gun.de (Joerg Loehn)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: re: How can I get out o' my body?
Organization: TRON Public Mailbox, Neurath, Germany
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 21:53:00 +0100

MATH.CONCORD.WVNET.EDU!JONESCL@USENET.ZER fragt in einer Message vom 11.11.92 19:15 Uhr:

> Original-Sender: math.concord.wvnet.edu!jonescl (CASEY JONES)
> 
> Can any one tell me how to get out o' my body?  I would like to try it.  I
> heard that there was a special breathing techniques.  I am a hypnotist and I
> am also wandering if I can get someone else to leave their body while under
> hypnosis.  I also need to know some techniques for meditation.

If anyone answers to the mail above, please put write your answer to the
net. I'm interested, too...

All the best...
                Joerg
 
## net_sh v1.4 (sb)
SYSTEM-MSG: System going down at 1:45 this afternoon for disk crashing.
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: reading / FAQ projects (was Re: Silver cord)
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:47:37 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.141041.2162@spdcc.com>, gst@spdcc.com (Gary S. Trujillo) writes in part:
|> My point is that I'd prefer to talk at a greater level of specificity.

My comments are at exactly the same level of specificity as everyone
else's.

|> But how about a reading project?  Does anyone know what Ken Ring or Raymond
|> Moody has written recently (I read the classics about near-death experiences
|> several years ago, including Moody's _Life After Life_ and Ring's _Life at
|> Death_).  I'd prefer to consider something that makes more explicit refer-
|> ence to the OBE experience, even if in the context of a discussion of NDEs
|> (near-death experiences).  Or should we start with something more specifi-
|> cally about OBEs?  (I suppose that Susan Blackmore's book is worthy of a
|> joint read at some point, but first I'd like to become better acquainted
|> with what people who have had the experiences and/or who have collected
|> anecdotal accounts have to say about them).

Fine.  I should point out that Blackmore'e "Beyond the Body" was based
on her study of the archives of the SPR in London, which contain one
of the largest collections of anecdotal accounts.  The book also has
over 100 references, including the classic collections of anecdotes.

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
From: SRK106@psuvm.psu.edu (Senthil Ramas Kumar)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Joint oobe experiment anyone ??
Date: 23 Nov 92 04:49:40 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

Hey folkx: after going thru what has been happening in alt.dreams I thought
maybe we shud also setup some kind of an oobe experiment.  Kinda parellel to
what John Winston does in a.a.v.  Maybe we could all get together
out-of-body and go and visit a coupla places ? Niagara falls ? anyplace for
that matter.

I beleive that we need atleast one person who is atleast a little adept at
going out-of-body at will.  And I am sure pple can come up with some more
suggestions etc.

Lets c, what we can do here.  and lets have some fun together.

Kumar
From: rickh@ems.cdc.com (Richard Herwig)
Newsgroups: alt.bacchus
Subject: intro book
Date: 18 Nov 92 13:35:29 GMT
Organization: Empros Systems International, a division of CDC

I'm ready to take the leap intp starting my own wine cellar, but
I lack info on how to start.  Does anyone know of a good book
that will give me info on this and about wine in general. 
Also any info on which wines are good to age, wine news letters,
am I going to save any money, etc.

Thanks in advance,
Richard

 Richard F. Herwig              | 
 EMPROS Systems International   | "Well, if he's gonna kill my friend he
 Plymouth, MN 55441  USA PLY06  |    should've armed himself."
 email: rickh@ems.cdc.com       |                          Billy Munny
Newsgroups: alt.bacchus
From: wbg@mtek.com (W. Brewster Gillett)
Subject: Re: Noveau Beaujolais
Reply-To: brew@mtek.com
Organization: MTEK International, Inc.
Distribution: nacal
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 17:28:38 GMT

cm199@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas G. Moore) writes:


>It's that time again for Noveau and even though the prices have
>increased in the past few years, I think this is one of life's
>enjoyments. Noveau is shipped very fresh from France and is meant
>to drink as soon as possible. Prices range from $9-15. Try to 
>drink it a soon a possible because it will not get better with 
>age.

I've tried, I really have. I've been collecting wines for over twenty years,
and have come to the conclusion that the experience peak is a quality red
that's vinified specifically for long life, and drunk only after many years
of cellar time. None of the B.N.s or their recent domestic counterparts such
as "Early Release" cabs and zins can, IMNSHO, begin to measure up. As pizza
wines, perhaps; and there's certainly a time and place for that component of
the vinous experience..... but for the ultimate 1992 wine treat, give me a
1978 or 79 Bordeaux, 1974 or '78 Cab, or '83 Oregon Pinot. The '82 and '86
Bordeaux will just have to wait.

If you buy them on release or as futures, they can be comparatively
affordable. If you went out tonight to find a '78 Bordeaux, you'd have to
have your lending officer along. Patience is the key! (That, and a suitably
stable storage space.)

Bottom line for me; I'd rather drink better wine, less often, than mediocre
wine every night. That doesn't make me right and others wrong; wine
enjoyment is pretty subjective, and what works for me might not work for
someone else.   

"Opinions are like assholes; everybody has one!"

			Author Unknown


-- 
_________________________________________________________________
brew@mtek.com
MTEK International, Inc.             Throughput Technology Corp.
Throughput!
From: Listserv Management <server@gu.uwa.edu.au>
Newsgroups: alt.stupidity
Subject: Blue
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:43:50 +0800
Organization: The University of Western Australia
Reply-To: test-l@gu.uwa.edu.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: mackerel.gu.uwa.edu.au
Summary: Mailing-list
Originator: test-l@gu.uwa.edu.au
Errors-To: sean@gu.uwa.edu.au
Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas
To: Multiple recipients of list <test-l@gu.uwa.edu.au>


Yellow!



Newsgroups: alt.stupidity
From: lagrangj@unvax.union.edu (Joshua C. LaGrange)
Subject: Re: You'd have to be an idiot to read this posting
Organization: Union College, Schenectady, NY
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:57:17 GMT

I just dont get it....
mus be dum

-- 
Josh LaGrange                  *                    
lagrangj@unvax.union.edu       *           (cute stuff deleted)                Phone: (518) 370-6908          *

Newsgroups: alt.stupidity
From: hagerjd@carina.unm.edu (John D. Hager)
Subject: Re: Yeah,but do you?
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 00:19:22 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Nov20.020356.10589@nuscc.nus.sg> matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Brett McInnes) writes:
>keithg@boi.hp.com (Keith Glasson) writes:
>: Brett McInnes (matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg) wrote:
>: : You know who you are.
>: 
>: 
>: 	Yeah, but do you?
>
>Umm...this is alt.stupidity,right?

For the most part
From: theodore-michael@yale.edu (Michael Theodore)
Newsgroups: alt.stupidity
Subject: Re: thankyou
Date: 18 Nov 1992 22:42:29 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

In article <1eaiaeINNe15@iskut.ucs.ubc.ca> ochealth@unixg.ubc.ca (ochealth) writes:
>
>thankyou, Madonna, for existing, so that this group could exist, and have 
>such funny flames in it.
>
>honestly, if this keeps up, I won't have to read rec.humor for laughs!
>
>not many groups get the prefect balance of pretentious smart asses and
>vapid twits outdoing each other.

Please don't forget about the occasional condescending snob that is 
oh-so-above-it-all as to be able to put all those little "vapid twits"
in perspective.

>
>keep it up

yeah - you too
>______________________________________________________________________________
>jpm: ochealth@unixg.ubc.ca         
>                            Happily using OS/2 2.0 because MS Windows isNT ___
>                                                      Insert VapourFeature ^^^


-- 
God's beard drips frothy chaos........
		theodore-michael@cs.yale.edu
Newsgroups: alt.stupidity
From: keithg@boi.hp.com (Keith Glasson)
Subject: Re: Yeah,but do you?
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 08:57:52 GMT
Organization: work
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Brett McInnes (matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg) wrote:
: keithg@boi.hp.com (Keith Glasson) writes:
: : Brett McInnes (matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg) wrote:
: : : You know who you are.
: : 
: : 
: : 	Yeah, but do you?
: 
: Umm...this is alt.stupidity,right?

--
	Well, that's a...stupid question. Of course you're right. I 
	noticed you didn't put a space in between your comma and the
	word "right". I thought maybe you were out, and since I have 
	some I'll never use, I might as well give them to you. Don't
	lose them.
From: 5g72wheelerj@vms.csd.mu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.stupidity
Subject: talkin' 'bout a restitution
Date: 18 Nov 1992 23:51:06 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
Reply-To: 5g72wheelerj@vms.csd.mu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsd.csd.mu.edu

. . . has anyone seen or heard hide or hair of Eric Estrada any time lately?

I just can't believe he went the way of Ray Bolger . . .
From: matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Brett McInnes)
Newsgroups: alt.stupidity
Subject: But then again, maybe you don't
Date: 17 Nov 92 03:40:21 GMT
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

How the hell am I going to get out of this?
From: theodore-michael@cs.yale.edu (Michael Theodore)
Newsgroups: alt.stupidity
Subject: Re: thankyou
Date: 18 Nov 1992 12:38:18 -0500
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: zoo-gw.cs.yale.edu

In article <1eaiaeINNe15@iskut.ucs.ubc.ca> ochealth@unixg.ubc.ca (ochealth) writes:
>
>thankyou, Madonna, for existing, so that this group could exist, and have 
>such funny flames in it.
>
>honestly, if this keeps up, I won't have to read rec.humor for laughs!
>
>not many groups get the prefect balance of pretentious smart asses and
>vapid twits outdoing each other.

Don't forget the occasional condescending snobs  who are
oh-so-above-it-all that they can look down on the vapid twits and put it all
in perspective.

> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>jpm: ochealth@unixg.ubc.ca         
>                            Happily using OS/2 2.0 because MS Windows isNT ___
>                                                      Insert VapourFeature ^^^


-- 
God's beard drips frothy chaos .............
		theodore-michael@yale.edu
From: matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Brett McInnes)
Newsgroups: alt.stupidity
Subject: Don't you?
Date: 17 Nov 92 03:39:04 GMT
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

But then again, maybe you don't.
Newsgroups: alt.stupidity
From: matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Brett McInnes)
Subject: i know who you are, i really do
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 02:44:49 GMT

NOT!
From: cvadsavi@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu (Carl R. Knecht)
Newsgroups: alt.stupidity
Subject: Re: talkin' 'bout a restitution
Date: 20 Nov 92 02:18:00 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic University, Pomona
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Nov19.232447.6262@zip.eecs.umich.edu>, winterh@emunix.emich.edu (Twist) writes...
>In article <00963CF2.C0A09520@vms.csd.mu.edu> 5g72wheelerj@vms.csd.mu.edu writes:
>>. . . has anyone seen or heard hide or hair of Eric Estrada any time lately?
>>
>>I just can't believe he went the way of Ray Bolger . . . 
> 
>Last thing I saw him in was a lousey (as if ther is any other kind)
>Andy Sidaris film. (Shit, I probably mis-spelled his name too)
> 

There's a Taco Bell commercial running in California with "Ponch" in it.  But
the question remains, WHY WOULD ANYONE CARE ABOUT ERIC ESTRADA???????? :-}

yub yub, Carl
From: ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy)
Newsgroups: alt.stupidity
Subject: Re: You'd have to be an idiot to read this posting
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:56:00 GMT
Organization: NMSU Computer Science

<In article <1992Nov14.033602.19369@nuscc.nus.sg> matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Brett McInnes) writes:

<You idiot.

	Huh? 

	Me stooopid.

	You Tarzan?
From: matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Brett McInnes)
Newsgroups: alt.stupidity
Subject: e
Date: 17 Nov 92 03:35:59 GMT
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

sez hu
From: 5g72wheelerj@vms.csd.mu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.stupidity
Subject: postal insults
Date: 19 Nov 1992 03:49:38 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
Reply-To: 5g72wheelerj@vms.csd.mu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsa.csd.mu.edu

I continue to wonder why pre-printed envelopes (such as those for bills, etc.)
always contain the following square in the upper right corner:
                                 ______________________
                                |                      |
                                |   Place Stamp Here   |
                                |                      |
                                |      Postal Service  |
                                |    Will Not Deliver  |
                                |     Mail Without     | 
                                |   Proper Postage     |
                                |                      |
                                |______________________|

It is as if they assume everyone to be either a thief or an idiot.
From: David Bennett <ddt@gu.uwa.edu.au>
Newsgroups: alt.stupidity
Subject: Pink corn flakes
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:03:09 +0800
Organization: The University of Western Australia
Reply-To: test-l@gu.uwa.edu.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: mackerel.gu.uwa.edu.au
Summary: Mailing-list
Originator: test-l@gu.uwa.edu.au
Errors-To: sean@gu.uwa.edu.au
Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas
To: Multiple recipients of list <test-l@gu.uwa.edu.au>

Taste a lot better than the blue variety.

David.
[DDT] Pink fish forever.



Newsgroups: alt.stupidity
From: lieberma@colossus.cs.rpi.edu (Adam Lieberman)
Subject: Re: Yeah,but do you?
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 05:27:34 GMT

>	Well, that's a...stupid question. Of course you're right. I 
>	noticed you didn't put a space in between your comma and the
>	word "right". I thought maybe you were out, and since I have 
>	some I'll never use, I might as well give them to you. Don't
>	lose them.

    Space.  The final frontier.  I don't read alt . stupid ity .
NOR THIS NEWSGROUP!!!
Newsgroups: alt.stupidity
From: ljz57640@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (l.j.z. )
Subject: Re: Blue
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 05:27:26 GMT

hagerjd@carina.unm.edu (John D. Hager) writes:

>In article <92Nov16.164330wst.111013@mackerel.gu.uwa.edu.au> test-l@gu.uwa.edu.au writes:
>>
>>Yellow!
>>
>>
>>
>---C'mon now!  Feuschia!!!!!

I think not... PUCE!!!

:)


-- 
Laura J. Zurawski        |  "He tried to kill me with a forklift!" 
Overseer of Abnormality  |                       --Servo and Crow, MST3k 
juniper@uiuc.edu         | My opinions are my own and no one else's. So there. 

Newsgroups: alt.stupidity
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Subject: Re: Read this out loud...
Originator: brad@buck
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:58:52 GMT


In article <By5Eor.CHD@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, cathy@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Catherine T Vojtas) writes:
|> Hey, be seedy effigy, each eye Jake ale amen Opie.
|> Cue arrest you've eat the bull you axe, why antsy?
|> 
|> Heehee.
|> Wrote it myself.
|> 
|> Get it?  Gotta read it out loud...
|> 

oaiC

.tebahpla eht si ti wonk t'ndluoc I os ,cixelsyd m'I derebmemer
I neht ,ti dah I thguoht I ,lleW



Newsgroups: alt.stupidity