From: yeonwook@hardy.u.washington.edu (Mark Choi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: What about China done to Korea
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:28:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Aug20.202843.17912
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <9208201945.AA12374@nero.wustl.edu> dickhoff@NERO.WUSTL.EDU writes:
>
>In article <1992Aug20.004700.13613@news.acns.nwu.edu> usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:
>> 
>>You are logically wrong. It's the governments who need to apologize. Since  
>>Chinese government has not apologized to the Korean people, why should we be  
>>so  
>>
>>Carl
>
>I am not sure if you are a Korean or Japanese or Chinese.  As a Chinese, to
>the best of my knowledge, the last time Chinese invading to Korean was 
>between Sui and Tang Dynasties. Of course, there must be several attempts,
>but all were inbetween a time span of about 50 years.  Later, of course
>Mongolian and Manchurian had invaded Korea.  But do you think today's Chinese
>should apology to Korean for those once nomad people?:-)  Maybe you know
>more about Korean history.  Correct me if I am wrong.

No, I believe today's Han Chinese people should not be forced to apologize to
Koreans on crimes committed by previous generations.

>The invasion attempt in Sui Dynasties was completed failed.  The Sui
>Emperor wanted conquered Korean without a battle.  It was said only
>conquering without a battle, or with only "humane" battles, could make
>people really submissive in "mind".   But Sui emperor was not ZuGe Lian,
>and Korean were not "Southern Barbarian" by all means.  Sui emperor's
>army was completely defeated by Korean.   Later, in Tang Dynasty General
>Xi led army to invade Korea.  From what I have read, I have not seen any
>record about atrocity towards Korean civilian.   Anyway, it has been over
>more than 1000 years.

You must be thinking of the Sui attacks on Koguryo, the northernmost 
kingdom on the peninsula?

>As to Mongolian atrocity to Korean people, I think it was very likely.
>Because they had done a lots atrocitie to Chinese people.    As to
>Manchurian, most of time they were friends of Korean people.  Many times
>Qing Dynasty helped Korean peopel expelled Japanese invasion army out
>of Korean peninsular. I think Qing Dynasty had done much more good than
>bad to Korean.

I would hardly think the relationship between Qing and Yi Korea was 
good. In fact, everything had been going fine until Qing wiped out
Ming (the last real han dynasty), then the nomadic "barbarians" in
the minds of Koreans and Han Chinese ravaged Korea in an attempt to
recieve the same kind of friendship between the previous Yi-Ming.
Oh, and the barbarian Qing didn't do anything to help Yi Korea, in fact,
the Han Chinese Ming Dynasty was the one that helped Korea defend 
against Hideyoshi. In any case, I still do not believe today's Han
Chinese generation owes anything for their ancestor's misdoings
(which is very small anyway). Same for the Manchus (misdoings much 
larger larger then Han).

>As to Korean War, I don't think you would call it Chinese invasion.:-)
>I think had Chinese really invaded Korean in last 1000 years, Chou
>EnLai would have already apologized to Korean people.   To the best
>of my knowledge, Chou didn't make any such kind of apology to North
>Korean; wheras Chou made apology to Vietnam for Chinese invasion
>to Vietnam in Ming Dynasty.
>
>In my opinion, today Chinese and Korean hatred towards Japanese, to large
>extent, not because their invasion and conquer, but because the atrocities
>Japanese had committed and even today their government still refuses
>to acknowledge that.  A Korean friend of mine once told me, when Japanese
>conquered Korean, Japanese imprison Korean king in a zoo to degrade
>Korean people; Japanese also ordered only ONE chopper(small one, for kitchen)
>was shared by 50 households in proventting rebelion;  whoever violated
>this rule would be beheaded.

Zoo? That's a first. 

>In the last 150 years, many nations had invaded China.  Why there are
>not much hatred of Chinese people left except for Japanese (perhaps
>Russia also, but much minor comparing with Japanese)  ?    Some nations
>holds colony (HongKong) even today, but Chinese people generally don't
>hate them at all.  Why ?  Because Japanese army have cmmitted unspeakable
>atrocity to Chinese people under the same flag they wave today and theri
>government refuses to apology for that.
>
>Someone suspect if Chinese had same chance, Chinese would have done same
>thing to Japanese.  My answer is NO!  In the first place, Chinese show
>no interest in Japan at all.(BTW, I don't think it is good.)
>How many of you know Japanese ancient and modern history?  But a Japanese
>high school student knows many details of modern Chinese history, for
>example, the fall of gang of four.

Agreed, I am Korean, but it's my general feeling that Koreans know much
more about Han Chinese history then do Japanese. Historically, yes, China
never really showed much interest in expansion, because China was more or
less a self sufficient "middle kingdom".

>From my observation, Chinese people have no mentality to invade other
>nation, let alone invading Japan, similar to American people at this point;
>never care what is going on in other part of the world.   But Japanese
>people still have such mentality.  I have met and talked to many Japanese
>in many occasions, students and scientists, young and aged, rude and
>nice, all kinds.  To my big surprise, average educated Japanese know
>a great lot more about China's history, modern and ancient, than 
>what average educated Chinese know about Japanese history.  I don't
>this is good or bad for other people; but I am very sure Japanese people
>has a great curiosity in what's going on in other East Asia nations.

That is, however, not to say Japanese know much about Chinese history =).

>Maybe Japanese curiosity about other nation is not a sign of bad thing.
>So it definitely does not hurt for Chinese peple and American people to 
>learn from Japanese in this aspect.
>
>--------------------
>
>T.T.Wu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.china