HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De Arras)
Subject: Re: Avoid RightBrain (was: Re: PasteUp vs PageMaker vs Quark...)
Organization: Hand Held Products, Inc.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 00:23:32 GMT

In article <timm.716371463@void> timm@void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Tim McClarren)  
writes:
> jmd@cube.handheld.com writes:
> [...]
> >> 
> >I must say I  agree with Glenn here.  Just look at the 'sides', and the 
> >domains they tend post from.
> 
> Did I disagree?  Did you read it?  Do you understand any of what's
> being said?
> 
I was answering the 'stream', not necessarily you in specific, sorry I did not  
make that clear.  I do understand quite will.

> >> [...]
> 
> >Why do you pay-per-byters always DEMAND that the rest of us cater to your 
> >chosen situation? 
> 
> Did I DEMAND?  I don't know...I'm reading it and I'm seeing the phrase
> "I would still ask"...you're reading it, and you're reading "demand".
> I think one of us needs to go back to school.  Funny, I'm on the
> 19-year-old side, but I seem to be able to comprehend the posts...
> 
> >On the one hand, it is your choice of how to connect, and 
> >on the other hand,  you would get more sympathy (from me, at least) if you  
weren't 
> >so demanding about it all. 
> 
> What's "demanding about it all"?  Wow...I never though asking someone
> to put THREE FUCKING LETTERS on the top of their posts was asking
> so much.

If they don't do exactly as you 'ask', you (personally) attack them for it.  
That's demanding in my book.  Shouting, in fact, at this point.

I am not opposed to (RTF) in the titles, I'm just opposed to being told I MUST  
do it, without my input, to appease someone else's situation.
> 
> > I like the NeXT and DPS.  I don't see why I should therefore
> > be happy with a command-line newreader, or the style of output it tends to
> > product.
> 
> Interesting.  I don't see the connection between the first sentence and
> the following one, but interesting nonetheless.

Try harder.  I like RTF.
> 
> Sigh...you asking me to look up "listen".  Geesh.  Try looking up
> "humane".
> 

In general, you'll get more "humane" treatment from folks, if you present your  
REQUESTS in a humane fashion.

> -- 
> Tim McClarren     | "...a bajillion brilliant Jobsian lithium licks."
> timm@ncsa.uiuc.edu|
> (217)244-0015     |

Jim De Arras
From: rpomeroy@aunext3.amd.com (Ron Pomeroy x(Coop))
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: New idea ... (long)
Date: 11 Sep 92 00:22:45 GMT
Reply-To: rpomeroy@aunext3.amd.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <1992Sep10.153646.3811@dtint.uucp> nevin@dtint.dtint.com writes:
>>In article <jbone.716049711@splat> jbone@splat.dell.com (Jeff Bone) writes:
>>> Two little points of contention:
>>> 
>>> thomsen@spf.trw.com (Mark Thomsen) writes:
>>> >
[munch munch]

So, guess where the computer development has  
>>started to migrate towards?  The MS-DOS crap machines.
>>
>>I switched employers.  Now I do NeXTSTEP development.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>--
>>NeXTmail preferred!
>>-- 
>>---
>>root	                               root@dtint.dtint.com
>>Digital Technology Int.                (801)226-2984	
>>500 W. 1200 South, Orem UT, 84057      FAX (801) 226-8438

Rock-n-Roll dude !  (this *is* c.s.n.advocacy - yes?)
--
Ronald Pomeroy			[Objective-Cruntime: [SmallTalk runtime]];
Advanced Micro Devices		[self dream-on];
CAM Applications Group
rpomeroy@aunext3.amd.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn)
Subject: Re: right brain?
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 05:00:56 GMT

eburk@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Eli Burk) writes:
> I read the recent post coming out of right brain. The
> lengthy one, but I'll be brief.

Enough already.  While I am one of the ones who was very annoyed with the  
commercial-sounding post that started this last round of ill will, I  
personally think the apology Glenn wrote was good enough for me.  Certainly  
it's good enough for now.  I think this even though I am not 19 years old,  
and generally do not like to be considered 19 (*).

I'd say let's let this furor rest.  The guys at RightBrain apologized and  
seem to be genuinely sensitive (after this last ruckus) to the irritation  
that their posts can cause.  I don't think it's appropriate to talk about  
boycotts at this point, and I don't think we need to publicly whip them  
about it.  They seem intent on making a good-faith effort to "do the right  
thing", so let's assume they'll do just that, and make our own good-faith  
effort to give them some slack.

I do think the question of balance on commercial info in usenet postings is  
a tricky one.  I, for one, *do* want information on commercial products, or  
at least access to that information.  At the very same time, I *don't* want  
usenet to turn into an advertising medium.  It's probably going to take some  
trial and error to find a reasonable way to deal with such (somewhat  
conflicting) desires.  I think RightBrain's plans for an email server should  
do a fine job.  Maybe they should have done it sooner, but why yell about  
that as long as they are doing it now?

 - - -[aside]
(*) On the other hand, it was amusing that I ducked into a bar tonight to  
escape the rain, and the guy at the door was quite insistent that he see my  
drivers license.  He was also quite apologetic once I showed it to him...

--
Garance Alistair Drosehn     =     gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu
ITS Systems Programmer            (handles NeXT-type mail)
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute;           Troy NY    USA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: kris@coyote.fdn.org (Christophe Janot)
Subject: Re: Next vs Macintosh for the Graphic Professional (rtf)
Reply-To: kris@coyote.fdn.org (Christophe Janot)
Organization: RNuG
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 07:56:44 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.004507.21926@cube.handheld.com> jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim  
De Arras) writes:
> Why have a NeXT if you want to restrict yourself to '70s UNIX features.  I  
> don't want to see excessive use of RTF postings at least until the backbones  
> are sped up, but NeXT users that have "no NeXTmail please" in their .sig puzzle  
> me.  But the occasional one, such as RightBrain's recent posting, is a breath  
> of fresh air in an otherwise 7 bit ascii world.
> 
> Jeff, this is not directed to you, or I would've e-mailed it.  Nor is it really  
> to anyone else, since history has proven no one will change their mind on this  
> topic once its been made up.

OK, I agree with you, rtf posting could be really cool, but the problem is the  
over-use of rtf articles by RightBrain for their advertisement postings. Such RTF  
articles will be welcome when everybody on the net will use 1Mb+ modems.

Could someone confirm that advertisement is not allowed in netnews ? 

Kris
-- 
When will RightBrain stop filling the netnews
with their advertising or marketing posts ?
> NeXTmail [kris@coyote.fdn.org]
From: eht@cmu.edu (Eric Thayer)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is Rick Rashid at Microsoft?
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:50:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.BuBtsC.401.2
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <jbone.716051484@splat> jbone@splat.dell.com (Jeff Bone) writes:
> david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George) writes:
> >
> >The confusion probably arises because Rick Rashid, who you'll all know as  
one
> >of the 'authors' of Mach (no it wasn't Avie on his own !), and some other  
Mach
> >guys are now working for Microsoft and no doubt bringing their Mach  
experience
> >to bear.
> >
> 
> Can somebody verify this?  I'm thinking somebody is just getting him
> confused with Dave C., but I could be wrong...
> 
> 
> jb
> 

This is true.
From: andrew@cubetech.com (Andrew Loewenstern)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: PasteUp (was RE: NeXT, WordPerfect ...)
Date: 3 Sep 92 07:40:51 GMT
Organization: Cube Technologies, Inc.

In article <871@rtbrain.rightbrain.com> glenn@rightbrain.com writes:
>We also support all the Emacs key bindings like control-d for deleting
>the next character (to the right of the cursor). I can't imagine how
>anyone can do word processing without the ability to delete to either
>side of the cursor. Also, control-f and control-b for cursor motion are
>much better than arrow keys for speed typists, because you don't have
>to leave home row.

This is very good!  It would be really cool if you could hit a command
key that would turn off extended characters and turn on some of the
fun meta-key EMACS bindings (like meta-d which deletes the next word,
meta-delete, meta-f and b (forward and backward one word...), etc...).

Of course, I think most of us would rather get our grubby hands on it
ASAP than wait even one more day for you guys to add more
key-bindings...  ;-)


andrew
-- 
andrew@cubetech.com     | "We shall not cease from exploration
Andrew Loewenstern      |  And the end of our exploring
Cube Technologies, Inc. |  Will be to arrive where we started
                        |  And know the place for the first time." -T.S. Eliot
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: jbone@splat.dell.com (Jeff Bone)
Subject: Re: NT is *NOT* Mach!
Organization: Dell Computer Co
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 14:52:39 GMT


STANDARD DISCLAIMERS.  My opinion != Dell's etc.


edwardj@microsoft.com (Edward Jung) writes:
>
>Jeff Bone writes:
>
>>...so if I decide to write a SVR4 server for NT, even if it is technically
>>possible, I won't be able to.  Yup, sure sounds open to me.  Microsoft's
>>starting to sound like a B-rate sci-fi/horror flick from the 60's:
>>
>>            "We will control all that you see and hear..." 
>>
>
>Jeff, make certain you check the facts first. If you work for the
>same Dell that OEMs DOS, then your company may well have the license
>to write their own user-level subsystem. 
>


Ah, mebbe so, but what if Joe grad student at UT-Austin wants to write
a SVR4 server for NT and make it freely available for anonymous ftp?
The issue here was "openess"...  I don't need a "license to write [a]
user-level subsystem" for Mach, do I?

BTW, re: check the facts...  I was speaking in general terms, Mr. Jung,
I don't have any particular *desire* to become intimate enough -w- NT
to write an SVR4 server for it.  What's true for me (that I work for
an OEM who may or *may not* be allowed to write user-level subsystems
for NT) is certainly not true of *most* of the world.  The availabilty
of NT, in terms of code, etc., is likely never going to match that of
UNIX/Mach/what have you --- that was my point.   Without a special and
likely costly relationship with Microsoft, it will probably be difficult
both technically and legally to write these kinds of things for NT.

Mr. Jung, make sure you read for content first.



Thoughtfully yrs,



jb




--
-- Jeff Bone ------------------------------------------------------------
        NT...  Just say N0T.   Skate UN*X!   Standard disclaimer. 
------------------------------------------------------- jbone@dell.com --
                                                                       --
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (Stefano Pagiola)
Subject: Re: Open Letter: Don't get rid of UNIX
Reply-To: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 19:53:40 GMT

jfr@glitter.RedBrick.COM writes
>   Sigh...  It is interesting to do the economics... If there
> WERE ever 1M NeXTstep installations on the 486 (a truly
> amazing feat, you would have to admit) and they sold it for
> a price that has been bandied around a lot, say $299, that
> would make a total revenue stream of $299M, not bad if you
> are small startup software company, but... NeXT sold $160M
> or so last year when they were not considered very succssfull
> at all.  No, I can't see this being the market Steve Jobs
> would want to be in, not at all.       
> 

Profit margins on hardware and software are not the same.

--
-
Stefano Pagiola
Food Research Institute, Stanford University
spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (NeXTMail encouraged)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De Arras)
Subject: Re: Jack Reynolds Apologizes to the Net (RTF)
Organization: Hand Held Products, Inc.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 01:32:44 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.204955.8828@cs.yale.edu> nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu  
(Nathan F. Janette) writes:

> 
> A view often held by those who have high-speed internet connections
> that they don't personally pay for...
> 
Perhaps true, but there is no sin in having a high-speed internet connection,  
as is sometimes implied!  (I DO pay for my full-time link)

> --
> Nathan Janette		"I'm a NeXTstep man,
> Dept MB&B, Yale Univ	 I'm a NeXTcube guy"
> New Haven, CT
> nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (NeXT)

(My opinion only!)
Jim De Arras
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: edwardj@microsoft.com (Edward Jung)
Subject: Re: Is Rick Rashid at Microsoft?
Date: 13 Sep 92 23:38:38 GMT
Organization: Strategy Division, Microsoft Corp.

Eric Thayer writes:
>In article <jbone.716051484@splat> jbone@splat.dell.com (Jeff Bone) writes:
>> david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George) writes:
>> >
>> >The confusion probably arises because Rick Rashid, who you'll all know as  
>one
>>of the 'authors' of Mach (no it wasn't Avie on his own !), and some other  
>Mach
>> >guys are now working for Microsoft and no doubt bringing their Mach  
>experience
>> >to bear.

"One of the authors" is a miscredit. He ran the project. He was
Avie's thesis advisor. We in Strategy have been working the past
two years on getting top proven talent into the company because
of the recognition of our shortness of experience in distributed,
OO, and robust systems. Hence Dave Cutler (VMS), Rick Rashid (Mach),
Jim Allchin (Banyan, Clouds), Paul Leach (Apollo), et. al. Hence
also our establishment of our technical advisory board, which includes
John Hennessy, Gordon Bell, Andy VanDamm, Doug Lenat, and other
people like that.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: ernest@pundit.cithep.caltech.edu (Ernest Prabhakar)
Subject: Re: Object Oriented File System: Huh??
Reply-To: ernest@pundit.cithep.caltech.edu (Ernest Prabhakar)
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 21:00:44 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.182618.28508@adobe.com> caro@adobe.com (Perry A. Caro)  
writes:
> I know object oriented programming.  Object oriented programming was a
> friend of mine, and believe me, you don't want an objected oriented file
> system.

Cute. :-)

> First generation OOFS are bound to underperform mature traditional
> filesystems. 

Well, yes.  However, ObjectStore (from ODI) whom NeXT has contracted with to  
build this sucker bills itself as a 'second-generation OODBMS'.  What does that  
mean?  I dunno.  All I know is that their promotional literatures has  
'performance' written all over it, so they apparently think their performance  
is pretty good.

I was curious if the Honorable Elder Statesman Mr. Caro (;-) could evaluate  
their claims and let us know whether
a) ODI has in fact solved that bottleneck
b) ODI's marketing is a bunch of hooery
or
c) OODB and OOFS are sufficiently different that the two don't tell us anything  
about each other.

At any rate, the point is that NeXT is trying to build a 'second generation'  
OOFS with acceptable performance.  ODI, from what I've seen, has the smarts to  
build it, if anyone does.  The question is, does anyone?

Thanks,

- Ernie P.

--
Ernest N. Prabhakar                  Caltech High Energy Physics
Member, League for Programming Freedom (league@prep.ai.mit.edu)
CaJUN President        NeXTMail:ernest@pundit.cithep.caltech.edu
"...and ourselves, your servants for Jesus sake." - II Cor 4:5b
#import <std/disclaimer.h>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: jfr@glitter.RedBrick.COM ()
Subject: Re: Open Letter: Don't get rid of UNIX
Organization: Red Brick Systems, Los Gatos, CA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 03:11:49 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.081007.25717@utstat.uucp> philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.055531.26412@pages.com> bwebster@pages.com writes:
>
>[ ]
>>Not that I'm a great fan of OS/2, but...IBM has sold 1,000,000 non-developer  
>>copies. 
[munch]        
>I'd be hard pressed to argue in favour of a 
>NeXT for anyone but programmers. It's a very wonderful computer with interestingusers, but the hardware price is keeping students away from the platform.
>Since they represent the future, I can only assume that NeXTSTep will be 
>a short lived item. It hasn't much of a chance on the 486, except for a
>few people.
>In short, OS/2 is really nice, inexpensive, runs on inexpensive hardware,
>multitasks and I feel has a promising future. NeXT's BMW approach with 
>pricing will come back to haunt them. 
>>I'm a great NeXTSTEP fan--and our entire company is certainly betting on it  
>>right now--but how long do you think it will be until there are 1M NS  
>>installations?  ..bruce..
>Probably never.

  Sigh...  It is interesting to do the economics... If there WERE ever
  1M NeXTstep installations on the 486 (a truly amazing feat, you would
  have to admit) and they sold it for a price that has been bandied 
  around a lot, say $299, that would make a total revenue stream of
  $299M, not bad if you are small startup software company, but...
  NeXT sold $160M or so last year when they were not considered very
  succssfull at all.  No, I can't see this being the market Steve Jobs  
  would want to be in, not at all.       

  Jon Rosen


Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: vesely@next.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Ivan Vesely)
Subject: Re: Avoid RightBrain for RTF ? (Who the heck are you people?)
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:38:28 GMT

In article <timm.716167289@void> timm@void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Tim McClarren)  
writes:
> vesely@next.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Ivan Vesely) writes:
> 
> >In article <timm.716098845@void> timm@void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Tim McClarren)  
> >writes:
> >> glenn@rightbrain.com (Glenn Reid) writes:
> >> 
> >> > ......A handful of people (essentially
> >> >all of them in college, for what it's worth) have decided that we are
> >> >evil and wanton in our disregard for the net rules, when in reality it is
> >> >not the least bit clear what is right and wrong......
> >> 
> >> No, you're evil and wanton because you show no consideration for other
> >> folks.  That's my complaint. 
> 
> >With RTF postings? Are you for real?
> 
> Read before you post.  I'm not a tightwad and I've got no complaints
> about RTF posts.  I simply want them to be labelled.  Is that oh
> so difficult for you?  I love these groups...everyone screams and no one
> pays any attention to what's being said.
> 
O.K. I'll tone down my argument too.  If you haven no complaints about RTF then  
I'm with you.  I would also agree that all RTF postings should be labeled so  
that others can screen them out.  That probably won't save people a lot of  
money, though.  Mind you, all of this could have been avoided if the vote on  
the  "RTF only" newsgroup would have been passed.  I voted for it, I hope you  
did to.
--
Ivan Vesely, Electrical Engineering and Medical Biophysics
University of Western Ontario,     vesely@next.heart.rri.uwo.ca
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn)
Subject: Re: NS3.0 release -- Advertising via telepathy?
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 05:06:16 GMT

jon@afs.com (Jonathan Hendry) writes:
> #import <ansi/sarcasm.h>
> 
> Gee, this overwhelming media blitz about 3.0 shipping is just
> breathtaking.

As I work with a campus store which sells NeXT stuff, I personally think it  
is wise of NeXT to delay any marketting blitz until people actually *have*  
Release 3.0.  Our store has not received a single copy of Release 3.0 yet,  
and I certainly don't want people showing up and demanding to see a product  
that we can't show them.

Once a store can actually *get* it (not just order it), then I agree a media  
blitz of some sort would be nice.

--
Garance Alistair Drosehn     =     gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu
ITS Systems Programmer            (handles NeXT-type mail)
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute;           Troy NY    USA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: jhg4b@boltzmann.mech.virginia.edu (Jay Grinstead)
Subject: Re: Jack Reynolds Apologizes to the Net (RTF)
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:45:37 GMT

Anybody remember Nixon's "Checkers" speech?

____________________________

"I am not a crook."

Jay Grinstead
Department of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering
University of Virginia
jhg4b@virginia.edu	(NeXTmail)
From: murphy@bohr.physics.purdue.edu (William J. Murphy)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: New idea: forget Open Systems. N(o)T! (was Re: Open...)
Date: 9 Sep 92 03:37:24 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Physics Department

In article <1992Sep08.173230.158421@zeus.calpoly.edu> alex@cosmos.acs.calpoly.edu writes:
>It definitely is. It is not however, very good at being multi-user. It's kind
>of like Windows in that many apps can run at once, but only one user can use
>the machine.

In a nonnetworked environment this is no big deal.  However in a server
environment, it is sometimes just  easier to work on the server for certain
tasks.  The NeXT server in my office holds my data/results, so it's easier
to run vi/emacs/Edit from that machine through an rlogin.  However for
crunching it pays to load it onto other machines.

>For those who are not aware, NT is apparantly built upon a Mach kernal. The
>main reason why it's not "UNIX" is that it doesn't have all the UNIX wrap-
>pers that NeXT added to their Mach kernal. Ie, you don't really have a 
>command line interface, just the windows.

If this is true, then I won't ever buy a copy.  There are too many things that
are simpler when done through the CLI.  I bought an Amiga over MAC/PC for the
simple reason it multitasked and had both windows and CLI.  I bought a NeXT
because it was what I was using for research and it had protected memory 
for running processes.

-- 
Bill Murphy               | The Call of the Norwegian Whipperwil:
			  | "I tink so, I tink so, probably."
murphy@physics.purdue.edu | "I dunno, I dunno, who can tell."
From: nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Avoid RightBrain for RTF ? (Who the heck are you people?)
Date: 10 Sep 92 18:35:59 GMT
Reply-To: nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT

In article <1992Sep10.170756.6292@julian.uwo.ca> vesely@next.heart.rri.uwo.ca  
(Ivan Vesely) writes:
> In article <timm.716098845@void> timm@void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Tim McClarren)  
> writes:
> > glenn@rightbrain.com (Glenn Reid) writes:
> > 
> > > ......A handful of people (essentially
> > >all of them in college, for what it's worth) have decided that we are
> > >evil and wanton in our disregard for the net rules, when in reality it is
> > >not the least bit clear what is right and wrong......
> > 
> > No, you're evil and wanton because you show no consideration for other
> > folks.  That's my complaint. 
> 
> With RTF postings? Are you for real?

With huge RTF advertisements.

> When will you people stop whinning about the evils of RTF posting?  Many of  
the  
> silent news readers out there actually LIKE RTF!  It brightens up their day.   
> Isn't this one of the joys of owning a NeXT?  Having fun with it, doing  
things  
> that others CAN'T do?  Avoiding RTF altogether, and using only plain boring  
> ASCII is sinking to the lowest common denominator.  I refuse to do that!  So  
it  
> costs a little bit more, that's the price of using this newsgroup. This is  
the  
> way THIS newsgroup has naturally evolved.  Don't spoil it for the rest of us  
> just because you're a tight wad.

It's not for you (or me) to speak for silent readers of this group.

I suggest that you spend some time paying for a connection, and/or
working on a SLIP line reading this group before you criticize what
you obviously don't understand.

--
Nathan Janette		"I'm a NeXTstep man,
Dept MB&B, Yale Univ	 I'm a NeXTcube guy"
New Haven, CT
nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (NeXT)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy