From: detrolio@andromeda.rutgers.edu (David De Trolio)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: SADF Purge
Date: 22 Dec 92 23:24:56 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

M.Titahmboh@lut.ac.uk (Mana TitahMboh) writes:

>In article <Dec.21.17.36.54.1992.27639@andromeda.rutgers.edu>,
>detrolio@andromeda.rutgers.edu (David De Trolio) writes:
>|> llk@kepler.unh.edu (Local Genius) writes:
>|> 
>|> >In article <Dec.20.19.33.27.1992.8310@andromeda.rutgers.edu>
>|> detrolio@andromeda.rutgers.edu (David De Trolio) [commenting on Gavan's post]
>|> writes:
>|> 
>|> >[...]
>|> >>
>|> >>into retirement when SA seems to be at a crossroads.  I am sure the
>|> >>SA Press is having a field day with this news, and that the ANC in all
>|> >>of its arrogance will call for more and call for the State President to
>|> >>step aside.
>|> 
>|> >David, I suggest you refrain from commenting on stuff you know nothing
>|> >about...the SADF has been accused of killing people opposed to the
>|> >current system of the way things are run in SA...how can you call it
>|> >arrogant when people call for accountability of the govt to things like
>|> >these?
>|> 
>|> I have studied and consider myself above average with my knowledge of
>|> the situation in SA, and will offer my opinions and banter with the
>|> rest here on the network for as long as the situation presents itself.
>|> 

>This is what you would point to, to illustrate arrogance!

I am NOT arrogant, and am not using arrogance to make a point, I am
indicting and supporting my opinions, observations, and studies of
SA and its current political situation.  The purpose of this network
and newsgroup is the encouage discussion from all sides, and here is
my side.

>[But it is arrogant of me to point it out]

No, it is called discussion (or mild flaming, its okay, it is getting
                             cold here in New Jersey!)

>|> It is arrogant of the ANC or ANY, repeat ANY organization to call for
>|> the removal of the State President at such a critical time in the
>|> history of South Africa.
>|> 

>The ANC or ANY other **political organisation opposed to the present system**
>has the right, nay the duty, to take every opportunity to exploit weaknesses in
>the administration [ de Klerk]. For someone who "has studied and is above
>average intelligence", I am amazed you think the ANC should be propping up a
>gov't which was "elected" by a small-very small- minority of the population of
>SA!

NO, I do not suggest the ANC should prop up the present government.  It is
MY feeling the ANC should not be the next ruling party in SA.  It is an
organization whose leadership has not a clue as to how to compete in the
post Cold War world.  However, if the full voting majority of South African
citizens decide on ANC when a constitution which will protect all of the
citizens is in effect and UN supervised elections are held, then you can
dismiss my opinions.

Reform is not going to take place overnight, reform and change never
occurs overnight.  The American Revolution took a few years, and the
fighting and growing pains continue until this very day.  You would not
have any of the reforms if it was not for the De Klerk government, you
cannot tell me P.W. Botha would have done any of this.

>|> Those responsible for the improper action should be removed, and a
>|> complete investigation and report should be conducted.  This is going
>|> to be one of the stepping stones to reform you are going to have to deal
>|> with, nothing is easy in politics, especially when it is caught up with
>|> police and military forces used for more than defence and protection.
>|> 

>Yes, like the cia in the seventies and early eighties? So what do you do, just
>let them "get on with it"?

Hey, no system is perfect, if there was, we would have it here in the
US.  The CIA has some good points and some bad points, and in some cases
crossed the line, but it is an organization which is under the control of
the Executive Branch in many instances and in the last thirty years or so
was a valuable asset.  Every modern society has an intelligence branch,
it is an essential part of the defense of a nation.  The James Bond,
poison pen, trenchcoat image is humorous to envision but hardly realistic.

>|> As for comments about my .signature, I am a Republican, a supporter of
>|> both President Reagan and President Bush, and am concerned about the
>|> next four years under Bill Clinton and Al Gore.  I did not support
>|> sanctions against SA, I feel the American and foreign companies who
>|> left will never return and the job loss and trade loss will hurt the
>|> SA economy for years to come.
>|> 

>Personnally i have no opinion, one way or the other, on your signature file -
>though it might explain some of your outlandish ideas- and I am sure the
>majority of SA citizens will  appreciate your concern for their economy. Being a
>bvsh-man, you should look at your man's perfomance on the american economy
>first.

The American and world economy would have hit the skids no matter who was
sitting in The White House, and I do not feel being a supporter of the
former and present leaders of the United States makes my opinions or
ideas outlandish, they are the concepts and ideals I have grown up with
and support.  Values is a fast factor in America, but it hardly had anything
to do with who was in charge.  Bill Clinton will be the next President of
the United States, I do not like it, and I cannot wait for him to be thrown
out in 1996.  You cannot wait for De Klerk to get out of office.  We have 
something in common, we do not like the men in charge of our respective
countries.  How about a trade?  (You MUST take Mrs. Clinton).


For now, regards and happy holidays to all, let us see what 1993
will bring to both our countries.


-- 
David De Trolio - (detrolio@andromeda.rutgers.edu)
--------------------------------------------------
Reagan-Bush 1981-1988 + Bush-Quayle 1989-1992
An Era of Strong American Leadership