HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dtm@castle.ed.ac.uk (D Muxworthy)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: More on the Channel Tunnel
Date: 13 Oct 92 07:52:39 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

Perhaps BR have added to the confusion about French locomotives appearing
in Britain by painting some of their locomotives in French, Belgian and
German livery, in connection with a freight exhibition in Birmingham
in September.  A genuine French electric loco also appeared there, but
it was brought by ship to Middlesbrough (anyone know why?) and thence by
road of course.
David Muxworthy
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: baer@uwovax.uwo.ca
Subject: Re: Michigan applies for High Speed...
Organization: University of Western Ont, London
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 03:42:31 GMT

In article <16088@umd5.umd.edu>, gurd@next04wor.wam.umd.edu (Daffy Duck) writes:
> The following article also appeared in the October 5, 1992 edition of  
> Passenger Transport.  Copyright, 1992 American Public Transit Association.
> 
> "Michigan Files for High Speed Rail Corridor Designation"
> 
>    DEARBORN, MICH. -- High speed rail travel in Michigan received a hefty  
> boost recently when the Michigan DOT filed an application with the U.S.  
> DOT requesting the rail corridor between Detroit and Michigan be  
> designated as a high speed rail corridor.  It is the first step in the  
> eventual development of trains going in excess of 150mph along the route.
[... stuff deleted]
>    "If selected as a high speed corridor, Michigan will continue to be in  
> the vanguard of rail transportation," said Rep. Dingell.  "It will be a  
> major advance for transportation in Michigan.
>    "Ridership on the Detroit-Chicago route has seen tremendous growth as  
> more people turn to rail as a preferred means of transportation.  Not only  
> will this boost the state economy, but it will also help reduce congestion  
> on highways and airports."
>     Michigan has invested more than $135 million in improvements along the  
> Detroit-Chicago corridor, nearly all in grade crossings, equipment,  
> passing track, and terminal upgrading through the combined effors of  
> Michigan DOT, Conrail, and Amtrak.
>    If the route is approved as a high-speed rail corridor, Michigan DOT,  
> working with the U.S. DOT, Amtrak, and Conrail, will make required  
> improvements to raise train speed limits in increments over various  
> sections.  The current maximum spped along the Detroit-Chicago route is  
> 79mph.

Gee, funny thing.  The Amtrak line (I believe Amtrak took it over from
Conrail, but I could be wrong) from Detroit to Chicago used to be double
track.  It runs through Ann Arbor, MI. 
 I was surprised when they removed the 2nd track about 3-4 years 
ago (this track appeared to be in reasonably good condition).
Why would they do this if they want high-speed rail travel??  I suppose
more passing tracks will help, but why on earth didn't they leave the
double tracks in?
>    Amtrak serves about 400,000 Michigan travelers in 13 communities  
> annually.
> 
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Douglas Baer
University of Western Ontario, London, Canada N6A 5C2
Internet: BAER@UWOVAX.UWO.CA
From: mdb@csc.liv.ac.uk (Martin Beer)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: More on the Channel Tunnel
Date: 9 Oct 92 13:30:25 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

David Bromage (brom@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au) wrote:
> Can you confirm that SNCF have hired preserved class 20s from the UK for
> hauling chalk out of the tunnel? I know that they already have about 15 of
> them but need more to complete the task on time.
> 
> What locos are being used for construction at the British end?
> 
I am not sure which locomotives you are talking about.

TML (the contractors) certainly have Class 20s either on loan or bought from BR
(I am not sure which).  They are being used on the UK side for 
moving trains of rails etc. around at Folkstone, where they can be
seen from the Information Centre (and the Motorway alongside).

I have not seen them on the French side, so cannot comment
on what is happening there.  Until construction work is complete
only contractors equipment is actually entering the tunnels,
so neither BR nor SNCF locos are acrually passing the portals yet.

I am sure there will be a great fuss when the first BR service loco 
reaches SNCF tracks and vice versa (particularly when the French loco runs
into and demolishes its first bridge!).

Tunneling has been complete for some time, so I hope that there is no
more chalk to remove.  My understanding was that all spoil removal
was undertaken using the narrow gauge contractors' railway, which was then
demolished to provide the foundations for the standard gauge railway lines,
which are now being laid.

By the way, according to the latest Modern Railways, the Class 92 freight locos
are now 15-18 months behind schedule (but not contractually late!?!).
I'll explain this if anyone is interested, but it is LONG.
Better to buy Modern Railways and read the full story as
described by Roger Ford.

Also the Ashford International Station is going ahead in a much
reduced form, as an extension of the current BR one, rather than as
a separate establishment.

Martin
--
Dr. Martin Beer,
Department of Computer Science,		Telephone 051-794-3672
University of Liverpool,		Fax: 051-794-3715
Chadwick Tower, P.O. Box 147,           EMail mdb@uk.ac.liverpool.compsci
LIVERPOOL.  L69 3BX. United Kingdom.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: mosier@laidbak.ucs.indiana.edu (Stephen Mosier)
Subject: Re: Empire Builder Lost? (was: LIRR Joke)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 21:29:59 GMT

In article <16094@mindlink.bc.ca> Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca writes:

>Call me a non-believer or a story wrecker, but I find this hard to believe.
>Train crews MUST be familiar with the territory they are on, otherwise a
>pilot from that particular area MUST be called.

i have to agree with this.  i worked for the pennsylvania rr and was
around for the infamous penn central fiasco.  there was *much* shuffling
of trains from prr -> nyc -> prr trackage and there was always a pilot
engineer/conductor pair from whatever division was involved to herd the
the trains around until the foreign crews were quilified to run by themselves.

i think this is a FRA rule rather than local to whatever rr is involved so 
think any class I rr will have to comply with it.

plausible story... but suspect it's apocryphal.   railroads are full of
urban legends. :-)

-steve
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: zephyr@cory.Berkeley.EDU (COIFMAN)
Subject: SP logo
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:35:51 GMT

 while driving US101 between San Francisco and San Jose, there is one or
two ex-SP (now the pinsula commutr line) overpasses that have the old SP
logo on them. I believe there is similar SP overpass on the way to Santa
Cruz from San Jose.



   _ -----------  -------------  ----------- _  -------------/^^^^^^^^\----
  /^____________||_____________||____________^\|[] ==== ====  ___ ___   == |
 'o-o ------ o-o  o-o ----- o-o  o-o ------ o-o o-o ------------------- o-o
Way of the Zephyrs         zephyr@cory.berkeley.edu             Benn Coifman
From: eshoben@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Ed Shoben)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: GG1s, E33s, etc.
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:30:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bw8EAw.4q1
Organization: UIUC Department of Psychology



         The E-33s of Penn Central were previously on the New Haven.  They were class EF-4 and were the last electrics acquired for that road.  Because of theirpaint scheme (orange-red with white stripes), they were known as "bricks" on
the New Haven.  To the best of my knowledge, none has been preserved in New
Haven paint.
From: mstoffan@uumark.UUCP (Mark Stoffan)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Empire Builder Lost? (was: LIRR Joke)
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 92 00:06:47 GMT
Reply-To: nlbbs!mstoffan@uunet.uu.net
Distribution: world
Organization: 


In article <Bvrt1z.BtJ@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> mosier@laidbak.ucs.indiana.edu writes:

 > 
 > In article <16094@mindlink.bc.ca> Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca writes:
 > 
 > >Call me a non-believer or a story wrecker, but I find this hard to believe.
 > >Train crews MUST be familiar with the territory they are on, otherwise a
 > >pilot from that particular area MUST be called.
 > 
 > plausible story... but suspect it's apocryphal.   railroads are full of
 > urban legends. :-)

        I agree. Another one concerns an old abandoned boxcar discovered 
on a siding in the woods. Inside were preserved, new 1950's automobiles 
(or other things. It changes with the retelling.)
From: ddevries@wpi.WPI.EDU (Daniel J. de Vries)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Grafton & Upton RR update
Date: 13 Oct 92 20:49:16 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu


  It looks like track rehabilitation work is continuing on the
  Grafton & Upton Railroad.  New ties have been dropped in the
  West Upton yard.  The GE 44-tonner, No. 9, was there yesterday
  evening (12-Oct-92) along with the ex-Rock Island flat car, loaded
  with new ties.
 _________________________________
  Daniel J. de Vries              
  Biomedical Engineering Dept.    
  Worcester Polytechnic Institute 
  Worcester, MA                   
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: stevray@stsci.edu (Don Stevens-Rayburn)
Subject: CP & CSX?
Originator: stevray@sol.stsci.edu
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 21:10:35 GMT


There was a short article in the business section of this morning's
Baltimore Sun stating that CPRail and CSX had come to an agreement
to jointly run through freights between the Port of Baltimore and
Toronto and Montreal.  There were no more specifics.  Given the local
bias of the Sun, the bulk of the article dwelt on how great this was
for the port.

I assume that the CPRail involvment is through the D&H.  However,
that is just a guess.

Anyone out there ave any more information?  When can I start looking
for the Multimark here in Bawlmer?


================================================================================
Don Stevens-Rayburn                     |  InterNet:    stevray@stsci.edu
Science Computer Operations Supervisor  |  NSI/DECnet:  STSCIC::STEVRAY
Space Telescope Science Institute       |  BITnet:      stevray@stsci
Baltimore, Md 21218                     |  AT&T Net     410-338-5077
================================================================================
From: jsm@shade.Princeton.EDU (John Scott McCauley Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Diesel vs. Electric Locomotive Maintenance
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:24:21 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <35815@cbmvax.commodore.com> grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) writes:
[on GG1's]
>
>The other major factor is that they represent a refinement of the basic
>design theme tested over several generations of Pennsy electric locomotives,
>combining the AC motor technology* developed on the P5 and predecessors with
>the articulated frame design successfully used on New Haven boxcabs.
>

What was the chronology of AC loco use on the Pennsy? I thought that
electric locos on the Pennsy started with 3rd rail DC motors about 1910
for the Hudson tunnels.

Then wasn't the first AC loco, the P5, introduced about 1933 and the
the second AC loco, the GG1, introduced two years later?

So that would make the 1st generation Pennsy AC loco the P5 and the GG1
barely 2nd generation. It is true there were older MU's and non-Pennsy
AC prototypes to follow. Or am I missing something?

	Scott
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: brom@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (David Bromage)
Subject: Re: More on the Channel Tunnel
Organization: Monash University General Access Unix
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 00:04:19 GMT

Martin Beer (mdb@csc.liv.ac.uk) wrote:
: 
: 
: In case anyone has not seen the press reports in the UK, Eurotunnel have just
: announced that the Channel Tunnel is not now expected to open for traffic
: until 15th December 1993.  This is because of commissioning difficulties
: caused by late arrival of rolling stock, and financial disputes with
: the builders.
: 
: The half year delay will increase thwe cost of the project significantly, as
: the anticipated revenue from the 1993 summer season will not now
: be collected.  This will cause some financial problems in the first
: year that the Tunnel is open, and there is likely to be another
: cash call on shareholders in late 1993/early 1994.
: 
: The good news is that traffic forcasts have again been raised, despite the UK
: recession, which means that once open, the money will come in a lot
: faster.
: 
: Martin
Can you confirm that SNCF have hired preserved class 20s from the UK for
hauling chalk out of the tunnel? I know that they already have about 15 of
them but need more to complete the task on time.

What locos are being used for construction at the British end?

Cheers
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Bromage       brom@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au   : 
Monash University                                : "I think thinking is 
Clayton, Victoria   				 :  so important"
 Australia                                       : 	-Baldrick
 						 :   
     May the source be with you			 :     
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	All views expressed are my own except those which conflict with
	my personal opinions.
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: More on Metrolink (L.A.)
Date: 15 Oct 92 16:59:29 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia


MORE SAN BERDOO FARES

I still think .50/mile is not out of line for car
expenses.  Sure you can beat it with an economy car
or a used one, but the figure was an average.

Consider that the average car probably costs about
$15,000 new (just a guess, I haven't checked the
papers yet).  Figure onto this the cost of a loan, 
plus sales tax, license fees, state or local property
tax (we have them in Virginia!), local use fees, 
state inspection fees, tolls, repairs over the life
of the vehicle, regular maintenance (tires, batteries,
antifreeze, oil changes, even washing and waxing),
insurance, and all the other things besides gas that
really add to the cost of owning and keeping a car.
Sheesh!  There are probably a dozen other things I
have forgotten.  Now figure up the total over the
average life of a car (ignoring the fact that a car
may be sold to someone else) in miles, say 140,000,
and divide that into the total cost to see how much
it costs per miles to keep over the total life of
the vehicle.

Seems to me that $6.50 or $10 for commuting by train
might not be so bad after all.

~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: mstoffan@uumark.UUCP (Mark Stoffan)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Maine Narrow Guage Returns
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 04:38:36 GMT
Reply-To: nlbbs!mstoffan@uunet.uu.net
Distribution: world
Organization: 

        Recent developments in Portland, Maine may signal the return of 
2-foot guage rails to the Pine Tree State, according to a local
railfan.
        Phineas Sprague, a local entrepreneur, organized the return of 
Edaville # 3 to Maine several weeks ago. The locomotive has been stored 
in the old Portland Company shops on Fore Street, where many steam 
locomotives and steamships were built around the turn of the century.
        Yesterday, a group of about 30 people turned out on a gray, 
misty day to run the locomotive down Portland's Commercial Street under 
its own power. Eager volunteers laid 30-foot sections of 2-foot track, 
picking them up and relaying them ahead of the engine as it slowly made 
its way along the street. Served by rail for well over a century, the 
historic Commercial Street trackage was removed in 1988 as part of a 
street improvement project.
        According to local press accounts, Sprague would like to bring 
much of the Edaville collection to Portland as the foundation of a 
2-foot rail museum. Trackage along the eastern part of the city would be 
restored to permit an excursion ride, which Sprague hopes to
extend through the city's Deering Oaks Park and eventually to the site 
of the proposed Amtrak station on the west end of the city.
        Maine was served by a number of narrow-gauge railroads from the 
1870's until the Monson Railroad was abandoned in 1941. Two-foot tourist 
trains still run in Boothbay and Phillips, but the present effort would 
be much larger and a major attraction in Maine's largest city.

Mark Stoffan              nlbbs!mstoffan@uunet.UU.NET    (UUCP)
Gorham, Maine  USA	  mark@btsgatep.caps.maine.edu	 (Internet)
From: wbrown@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (Bill Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Diesel vs. Electric Locomotive Maintenance
Date: 7 Oct 1992 19:42:45 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California
NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.243.192.17

In article <1992Oct7.181819.14844@Princeton.EDU> jsm@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (John Scott McCauley Jr.) writes:
	(stuff deleted)
>3) The GG1 lasted decades and probably would still be used someplace
>   today if it weren't for the PCB problem in the transformers.
	(more stuff deleted)

I seem to recall reading that the cast steel underframes were failing
due to metal fatigue.  Many had been repaired by welding, but that sort
of thing has its limits.


Disclaimer:  These opinions are my own and have	    |
    nothing to do with the official policy or the   |  -bill
    management of L.B.L, who probably couldn't      |   wlbrown@lbl.gov
    care less about employees who play with trains. |
From: kwyatt@ccscola.Columbia (Kershner Wyatt)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Diesel vs. Electric Locomotive Maintenance
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:49:06 GMT
Organization: NCR Corp, E&M-Columbia, Columbia, SC

In article <1992Oct15.170505.2398@athena.mit.edu> sathomas@athena.mit.edu (Stephen A Thomas) writes:
>It seems the posting has gotten away from the subject, but I'm glad to talk about
>GG1's!  It's hard to believe that people don't know that they aren't working

As the guilty ignorant fool who didn't know they weren't running anymore, I 
guess I need to apologize to Steve.  Allow me to explain a little more.  I
lived outside of the US for a number of years, I didn't have a subscription
to any of the "Trains" type mags and I haven't lived near the Pennsy since 
1976.  What irritates me about the way the posting started off was the fact
that I asked a simple question when the GG1 thread started up.  I got several
very curtious responses with dates and other info for which I am grateful.
Now I do model on and off, and I do hit museums, and with a CSX line in my
backyard, I definitely get to see trains running.

I fully admit to not knowing this model or that model locomotive, and somehow,
I survive.  So I guess that years of watching trains and not knowing everything
about them makes me stupid.  No, I  didn't know the GG1s were retired.  That is
why I read this group -- so I can learn.  I'm real glad that I wasn't just
getting into this group because remarks/comments like that - intentional or
unintentional - can turn off a new railfan.

Steve, I did enjoy the rest of your posting by the way!!

-- 
Kershner Wyatt
kwyatt@ccscola.ColumbiaSC.ncr.com

My opinions are my own and aren't necessarily my employer's.
From: rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Michigan applies for High Speed...
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:38:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.ldn5i2INN2oc
Distribution: world
Organization: Bolt, Beranek & Newman, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: spcsun25.bbn.com

In article <16088@umd5.umd.edu>, gurd@next04wor.wam.umd.edu (Daffy Duck) writes:
 
|>    DEARBORN, MICH. -- High speed rail travel in Michigan received a hefty  
|> boost recently when the Michigan DOT filed an application with the U.S.  
|> DOT requesting the rail corridor between Detroit and Michigan be  
                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
How's that again?

-- 
Ron Newman		rnewman@bbn.com
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: dewi@bnr.ca (Dewi Williams)
Subject: Re: toronto subway gauge
Originator: dewi@bcrks78
Reply-To: dewi@bnr.ca (Dewi Williams)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ltd
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 11:59:52 GMT


In article <1992Oct7.231625.5613@sq.sq.com>, msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader) writes:
> In an article with an invalid Distribution line, we see:
> > The fascinating things you learn on this net!  I never suspected that
> > the Toronto subway and tram systems used a non-standard gauge (4 ft,
> > 10-7/8 ins) ... Whatever made the builders pick **that** gauge? 
> 
> Hmm, I think I've posted about this before.  The reason for the particular
> gauge is lost in history -- the only explanation I've seen is that it's
> exactly 1500 mm, which is (a) historically unlikely, and (b) wrong, as
> the correct equivalent is 1495 mm.

According to the book "Not a One-Horse Town", City of Toronto bylaw 353
of 22 July 1861 authorized the Street Railway company, and set the gauge
as the width between the wheels of the standard English buggy "in deference
to the hundreds of such vehicles" in Toronto at that time. Apparently the city 
wanted people to ride their buggies on the rails rather than beat up
the pavement, which the city would have to repair. Two photos in the book 
seem to support this, one taken in 1887 and one in 1900: the photos are of
streetcars, but in each case there is a horse-and-buggy in the background,
its wheels fitting the track.

Later, there were "radial lines" which were standard gauge and mostly ran 
on private right-of-way. One was converted to the "Toronto gauge"
and is now the Long Branch route.

The latest extension (Harbo(u)rfront) is also Toronto gauge, but the
previous Scarborough line (using linear induction motors) is standard
gauge.

It can't take much to re-gauge a vehicle by that small amount, since 
three Toronto CLRV's (Canadian Light Rail Vehicles: the latest street-
cars) ran for three months on Boston's Green line in 1980

... Dewi
From: gregb@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Greg Brahms)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Swanton Pacific
Date: 16 Oct 92 13:43:37 GMT
Organization: HP Signal Analysis Division - Rohnert Park, CA

Nice to see things progressing with the Swanton Pacific.  I used to commute
over to Calistoga three times a week to run the 1912 when it operated on
the Calistoga Steam Railroad.  When Al bought the railroad, he gave me an
open invitation to come down and run it but I never have.  He has probably
forgotten now and the only time I get to Santa Cruz is for the speeder meet
on the Santa Cruz, Big Trees and Pacific.  Maybe someday, though!

Greg Brahms WB6UHH
"I'd rather be riding my speeder"
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: terryfry@access.digex.com (Terry Fry)
Subject: Re: Diesel vs. Electric Locomotive Maintenance
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 06:33:04 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.140058.5928@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> jis@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (jishnu.mukerji) writes:
>Looking at the traffic density on some of the trunk routes in USA, say
>the Conrail Water-Level Route, I get the impression that if that route
>were being operated anywhere in Europe or Asia, it would have gotten
>electrified by now. I think lower oil prices and sheer inertia plays
>major roles in this not happening. 

How about railroads that have short/medium lengths to run and deal mostly
with moving traffic from one end to another.  The Florida East Coast
Railroad might be a candidate, and had CSX not grabbed the RF&P,
they too would have been good candidates for electrified rail.