HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: peewee@infoserv.com (Philip Stromer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Homosexuality
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 13:59:14 PST
Distribution: world
Organization: Friends of Lenny Bruce

	>I follow your logic, but as a gay man I don't much cotton to
	>the motley company in which you've chosen to lump me.  
	
Now, now...Gays, drug users, and gamblers are all people who would be        
classified as "less than desirable" by the religious right.  You're being 
judgmental by calling them "motley company".  It's just as bad as if they 
call you "motley", no?
	
	>The religion suggestion is almost funny, but beyond that I don't 
	>see much humor here.  
	
Fine, let's get down to issues.        
	
	>For cryin' out loud, the only thing differnt about me, in compari-
	>son to other people, is that I happen to fall in love with members 
	of my own sex.  
	
The only thing different about a heroin user is that he takes heroin.  If        
it doesn't affect his work, why should it be anyone else's business.  Ditto
for marijuana, which lasts for 30 days in the blood stream.

For cryin' out loud, we're not even allowing people the right to their OWN
URINE anymore.  If drugs make someone screw up so bad at work, we shouldn't
NEED to force people to give urine samples.  Let workers' work speak for
itself.  I don't care what someone does on Friday night, as long as he is
ready to work on Monday morning.

	>Doesn't make me the same as a person who takes heroin, gambles or 
	>visits a hooker, 
	
Sure it does.  You all fall into the category of "unpopular" with the
masses.  You all fall into the category of Non-Conformists (tm).

	>I take issue with this bussiness of defining homosexuality 
	
You advocate gay rights legislation, but you take issue with defining the        
act you want to legislate.  I'm lost.

	>I refuse to be reduced to a purely sexual creature. 
	
Then leave sex out of any and all political discussion, and the issue        
will never come up!

	>I know that you did not say this, but the underlying tone of
	>your message (including the statement about 'overt acts') seems 
	>to suggest that I should "keep it in the bedroom where it belongs".

*All* sex, whether hetero, homo, or bestial, should be left in the bedroom
(or barn).  :)
								 
	>I will "keep it in the bedroom" when straight people decide to do 
	>the same, and not one minute sooner. 
	
Guess I have a head start on you.  I already do.        

	>I assume that I have the right to be as overt as the next person.

Just as the marijuana smoker once thought.  Best of luck.  If I had my way,
all individuals could do whatever they wanted to, as long as they posed no
immediate danger to anyone else.

But you'd be well-advised to turn straight, before it's too late.  Gay
people tend to get AIDS.

--Philip Stromer (peewee@infoserv.com)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: krw@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (keith.r.smith)
Subject: Re: single blacks
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 19:09:55 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.182103.2303@crd.ge.com> mmrwlm@sn535.uca writes:
>In article 28701@cs.ucla.edu, gds@york.cs.ucla.edu (Greg Skinner) writes:
>~In article <1992Nov10.005334.6961@osf.org> kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup) writes:
>~>True, but quick- how many brothas out there *not* run into this? It
>~>must be some state law in Mass that unmarried (now, or ever) sisters
>~>have to have at least one child. Everybody's got kids. Hell, I'll take
>~>a smoker over a parent anyday.
>~
>~You're entitled to date whoever you want, but that's no reason to
>~criticize other people (women in this case) for their circumstances.
>~Some of them were abandoned by the fathers of these children, some of
>~their husbands/boyfriends/lovers died, etc.

You make a good point re the reasons that a woman might be a single-parent.
You also make a good point re not criticizing somebody onnacounta' the
parental circumstances.  On the other hand, I must not have read where
Kenneth _apparrently_ said that single mothers were necessarily bad, or
at least irresponsible people.  If he _did_ say that somewhere, then please
point it out to me. 

The fact remains that a woman with children is less attractive as a prospect,
to a single (and especially young, single, and childless) man, than a women
w/o children in tow.  It seems to me that Kenneth was simply lamenting the
fact that there are a great many of the former in his neck-o-the-woods.
>~
>~I also don't see how this is relevant to the original point, raised by
>~Ronald Davis, that (paraphrased) it's heavy women, or women who have
>~kids (and no husband) who are criticizing black men for dating
>~non-black women. 

If you are gonna' paraphrase, then please strive to be just a wee bit
more accurate.  What Ronald said was more like:

The women complaining about a "shortage" of black men tend most often
to be women who are really heavy, or women who are single with lotsa'
children with differrent fathers.

This may or may not be true, but it sure sounds reasonable to me.
On the other hand, I can see where one would have problems with
the way that Ronald chose to characterize these women.....  I mean,
there is is nothing to be gained by disparaging somebody.
BTW, I also believe that this "shortage of black men" business is
a myth, as Ronald stated.

>~ That matter aside, if you're going to criticize
>~them, do so on the basis of their arguments, and not on their weight
>~or how many kids they have.
>
>Thank you, Greg.  I've been following this thread for quite some
>time, and I was beginning to wonder if there were any reasonable
>men out there who would refute a lot of the sexist comments that
>have been posted.  The air has finally been cleared.
>(Deep breath; Ahh! I can breathe again!)  :-)
>
>---
>______________________________________________________________________
>Wanda L. McCrae 

Keith
From: ronaldd@cbnewse.cb.att.com (ronald.h.davis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: cito gaston: first af-am manager to win world series?
Date: 11 Nov 92 14:52:26 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <BxIC91.6F9@cs.columbia.edu> d-yang@cs.columbia.edu (David Yang) writes:
>From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
>>This is true. Like all Blue Jays managers, Cito's gotten his share of criticism
>> but since the World Series, Gaston has gotten nothing but praise in Toronto's
>> newspapers. He has led the Jays to three (?) ALeast pennants and now the
>> AL championship and the World Series. He is much appreciated in Toronto
>> as is Juan Guzman, our star pitcher who destroys that other myth, that
>> African-Americans can't pitch. The biggest star, and most appreciated in
>
>Actually, I'd say Vida Blue (for the Oakland A's) proved African-Americans
>can pitch extremely well in the majors back in the 70's (I think he won the
>Cy Young award).  And to be fair, Satchel Paige proved his skill a long
>ways before that.
>
of course the really unfortunate thing is that many white people still feel that
black people have to "prove" themselves capable of doing things.  sometimes you
have to wonder if these people are slow learners or what?  i think that, in
reality, it is one of racism.  i use the term "racism" since people in positions
of influence act on these notions to make it much more difficult for black
people to "prove" themselves than is the case of white people in similar
situation who are often given the benefit of the doubt until "proven" unable.

betty shabazz (sp?), widow of malcolm x, once commented that most white people
have become so acustomed to racist attitudes that they don't even think of
them as being racist.  very true, imho...

-- 
  __  ______  __  / __/ |       at&t bell laboratories, naperville il, usa
_/ (_(_) / (_(_/_/_(_/  .       ronald@iexist.att.com / att!iexist!ronald
"if you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes" -- edmund wilson
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re:  Re: Interracial Dating
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:07:50 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Oct25.221630.3706@news2.cis.umn.edu> mmoore@staff.tc.umn.edu ("None of ya Bizness") writes:
>In article <1992Oct25.113639.9591@u.washington.edu> tzs@stein.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) writes:
>$lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat) writes:
>$>Fuck you, White Man.  You owe the Black race more than you could  
>$>EVER repay!  If that fact hurts, then you'll be in pain!  Your  
>$>people USED us, USED our blood, sweat and tears to build this  
>$>fucking country!  You need to educate your fucking self ...

>$And your people gave us Clarence Thomas.  Account settled.
>     ^^^^^^^^^^^

>And just WHOOOOOOOOOOOOO do you mean by this, Ross?

Perhaps he means the people Donald says Whites owe.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: nbcsl
From: galan@netlink.cts.com (Greg Gross)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 08:45:41 PST
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

patm@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Pat Murphy) writes:

> In soc.culture.african.american, "nigel allen" <nigel.allen@canrem.com> write
> 
> > Here is a press release from the National Black Caucus of State Legislators
> > 
> >  Black State Legislators to Hold '92 Conference in New Orleans
> >  To: National and Assignment desks
> >  Contact: Kofi Owusu of the National Black Caucus of State
> >           Legislators, 202-624-8833
> > 
> >    WASHINGTON, Nov. 9  -- The National Black Caucus of State 
> > Legislators (NBCSL) will hold its 16th Legislative Conference 
> > at the ITT-Sheraton New Orleans Nov. 30 through Dec. 6.
> 
> 		[stuff deleted]
> 
> >    Invited speakers include: U.S. President-elect Bill Clinton;
> > Illinois Senator-elect Carol Braun; Democratic National Committee
> > Chairman Ron Brown; University of Oklahoma Law Professor Anita Hill;
>                                                            ^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> 		and why isn't clarence thomas invited??!
> 
> 
> 
> just wonderin'
> pjm.


Pat:

Perhaps Clarence wasn't invited because this is not the National TOM 
Caucus of State Legislators. Different group...

That's just a guess, of course.
G.

--
Gregory Alan Gross      Welcome to life, where no good deed goes unpunished.
San Diego Union-Tribune         (619) 293-1270 (voice)
P.O. Box 191                    (619) 293-2333 (fax)
San Diego, CA 92112-4106        galan@netlink.cts.com (Internet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: barnhart@ddsw1.mcs.com (Mr. Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: Re: roach and richard pryor
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 04:09:49 GMT
Organization: Evanston, Illinois, U.S.A.

This is in reply to HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels), who wrote:
:
:The person I refer to is Hal Roach, dead at 100.  He was
:responsible for folks like Laurel and Hardy and The Little
:Rascals.

Did everybody see Hal in his latest silent appearance, at
the 1992 Academy Awards?
:
:And speaking of Richard Pryor, I wish I had been there to see him
:at the Circle Star Theatre recently.  I saw him on Arsenio and
:despite MS, the man is still in the world, he's still fighting,
:he's doing what he does best in the world.  If anyone on the
:board saw the show, please take some time, write it on line and
:let everyone know.  I put on his Seventies album "Is It Something
:I Said?" right after his appearance, blasting into the
:headphones.  Still fresh and live and in color.  Especially when
:he does Mudbone and the number about Miss Rudolph and the polar
:bear with little tiny feet.
:

SNAKE !!!!!!!!


Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: wdstarr@athena.mit.edu (William December Starr)
Subject: Re: A Comment on A Local Talk Show
Followup-To: alt.censorship,talk.politics.misc
Organization: Northeastern Law, Class of '93
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:39:29 GMT


<<< Please note the redirect(s) in the "Followup-To:" line. >>>

In article <1992Nov10.205706.7111@rock.concert.net>, 
barber@jazz.concert.net (Scott Barber) said:

> > Sounds to me as though you're advocating the censorship of the
> > expression of ideas and beliefs.  Not good.  [wdstarr]
>
> For me, though, I'd point out that there is a huge gulf of a
> difference between the free expression of IDEAS and BELIEFS and the
> advocacy of violence, indeed murder, on the public airwaves.

I don't see that "huge gulf of a difference" that you speak of.  "We
should kick all the <ethnics> out of the country," "Those <ethnics>
are sick, twisted perverts, and even "I'd like to see a hundred
<ethnics> hanging dead from lamp-posts" _are_ ideas and beliefs...
ideas and beliefs that may make you or me throw up, but ideas and
beliefs nonetheless.

> There are protections against people yelling "Fire!" in crowded
> theatres.  This seems to be a wise restriction on public expression,
> and I don't believe our freedom of speech suffers from it.

No, the protections are against _falsely_ shouting "Fire!" in crowded
theaters, which is a very different thing.  When someone says, either
explicitly or implicitly, "It's my opinion that...", there usually
isn't any falsehood involved (or, at the very least, it's going to
be damn difficult to prove falsehood, in a court of law or elsewhere).

-- William December Starr <wdstarr@athena.mit.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.clinton
From: ronaldd@cbnewse.cb.att.com (ronald.h.davis)
Subject: Re: Thank God for Ron Brown
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 21:40:37 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.054321.20824@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> a74k110@phobos.ucc.umass.edu writes:
>> 
>>>Anyone care to speculate on the man's future?
>> 
>>I'm not sure whether he'll be willing to give up working the political
>>side after his success as the party leader, but I was impressed by
>
>He's pretty much said (in not so many words) that he'd love to work in a 
>Clinton Admin.
>
>>Ron Brown's discussion of the law and legal education when he gave
>>the commencement address at a local law school last summer.
>> 
>>Attorney General or Education Secretary?
>> 
>
>
>Vernon Jordan (former civil rights leader) has Attorney General pretty much
>locked up.  Look for Ron Brown to be Chief of Staff. 
>
i *thoroughly* enjoyed watching bush get his ass kicked in the election last
week.  it also appears that based on the above speculations, that clinton
might actually deliver the goods in terms of putting african-americans in
his cabinet.

i can't say that i was the strongest clinton supporter [i supported tsongas
in the primaries] but it's almost hard to believe that we're at least rid of
the last 12 years of reagan/bush crap...

-- 
  __  ______  __  / __/ |       at&t bell laboratories, naperville il, usa
_/ (_(_) / (_(_/_/_(_/  .       ronald@iexist.att.com / att!iexist!ronald
"if you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes" -- edmund wilson
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: barnhart@ddsw1.mcs.com (Mr. Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: Re: Madonna (the animal) I love it
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 04:13:37 GMT
Organization: Evanston, Illinois, U.S.A.

:This is in reply to Dean Calloway <dc4l+@andrew.cmu.edu>, who wrote:
::
::If you want to be a singer, fine, sing.  If you want to be a prostitute,
::be that, too.  However, don't expect others to revere you as chic and
::vogue.
::
:
:A recent article I read about a theater company that is operating
:right in the midst of the border fighting in the old Yugoslavia
:mentioned that when the company and its audience discovered the
:author frequently was in America, everybody asked her to please 
tell Madonna
hello and they love her !!
:
:Do not underestimate this woman ... she is chic and vogue even if
:we say she's a dime-store tart.
:
:Aaron
:

[Sorry it looks funny -- I revised it after posting ...]
Xref: sparky soc.culture.african.american:11005 triangle.politics:140 talk.politics.misc:59834 soc.women:19447 talk.rape:2789
From: sjo@cci632.cci.com (Steve Owens)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,triangle.politics,talk.politics.misc,soc.women,talk.rape
Subject: Re: Eva Clayton bio
Date: 12 Nov 92 21:01:13 GMT
Organization: [Computer Consoles, Inc., Rochester, NY

In article <1992Nov12.133303.15330@rock.concert.net> bing@jazz.concert.net (Carter E. Bing) writes:
>In article <1992Nov11.160700.15751@dg-rtp.dg.com> meyers@leonardo.rtp.dg.com (Bill Meyers) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov10.154649.29316@rock.concert.net> bing@jazz.concert.net (Carter E. Bing) writes:
>>[ ... ]
>>>	Her being elected "with the help of the
>>>rich-white-liberal Handgun Control, Inc" is nothing more than
>>>the NRA rhetoric that is common now.
>>
>>Contributions from Handgun Control Voter Education Fund, 1992:
>>        North Carolina
>>                NC-1   Clayton, Eva (D)         $1,000.00
>>                NC-12  Watt, Melvin Luther (D)  $1,000.00
>>
>>Primary source:  Federal Election Commission, as of August 12, 1992.
>>Secondary source (where I read it -- no, kiddies, you won't see this
>>in the New York Times or the N&O):  Guns & Ammo Magazine, Nov. 1992.
>>	
>		
>	Greetings,
>
>	I see you are right a whole $1,000 dollars. Sounds
>like they have both been bought and paid for by the
>"rich-white-liberal Handgun Control, INc." to me. ONE THOUSAND
>DOLLARS can by you an office in North Carolina! This is to
>funny for words.     

	[....]
>			Carter

	Actually, this is the maximum PC amount a group should contribute to 
campaigns.  I believe this has been a voluntary limit for several years (I
could be wrong on this point, though.  When Clinton suggested this
voluntary cap in his campaign literature, it struck me that he was not
the first candidate in history to suggest this, but I couldn't remember.
Whatever.)  I have no doubt that they would have contributed more had they 
not wanted to look "Politically Correct".

	These numbers don't include the amounts contributed by members
of HCI, based on HCI's recommendation, either.  If you want to include
these as part of the HCI contribution, I'm sure this total would go up
considerably.

	BTW, I know this isn't the place for this discussion, but I
wasn't sure where to set the followup to:  t.p.g?  t.p.m?

						Steve


------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Read between the lines                             Steven J Owens @ CCI
 Criticize the words they're selling             (716) 482-5000 Ext 2867
 Think for yourself and feel the walls                 sjo@op632.cci.com
 Become sand beneath your feet." - Queensryche "Anybody Listening?"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup)
Subject: Re: To K. Crudup re black women with children
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 00:24:30 GMT

In article <1dp2b0INNkts@morrow.stanford.edu>
HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) writes:

>I still say there is something rather funny about so-called eligible
>brothers who complain about single black women with children.

Why? The children aren't my own, and I've never fathered a child, especially
one to lump onto another man.

>Your comment that you hate children right now seems rather droll...just
>think of who you once were, brotherman.

I've heard this comment before....so? I don't shit in diapers anymore, and
had no choice in being born. Now that I'm here, I'm going to maximize my
existance (hopefully without wrecking anyone else's). But - what has any of
this to do with my dislike of screaming brats, especially those whom aren't
my own?

>Furthermore, divorce and death also makes black women single mothers and
>breadwinners.  You're going to be critical of black women for that?

I'm the child of a divorce that occurred when I was three. I come from
"a broken home" (very broken, and I'm glad I made it). My mother used to work
two jobs for what seemed like forever. I give complete credit to every woman
out there who had to raise children on their own.

I just don't want to raise anyone else's.

I think you're on my case because I reflected someone's sentiment that
there are plenty of sisters with children out there, who seem to be complaining
noone wants to be close to them because of the children. I've seen a lot of
this, and, in case you haven't guessed, no, they aren't what I'm looking for.

It seems to me that you're on *my* case for not wanting to dive headfirst into
*someone else's* problem. I should no more have to feel guilty about not
wanting to be with someone with children than I should feel guilty about not
wanting to be with someone who, say, drinks too much.

Besides, the "300-pound Wanda with 4 differently-fathered children" was an
exaggeration of the stereotype of the "all men are dogs" contingent anyway.
I'm a firm believer in "those who can, do" - it should therefore be obvious
of what I think of those who cry foul the most.

>Are you upfront when you date, and is the sister as well?

Yes. I don't usually mince words; I'm too busy for that. However, it's probably
just human nature that certain appearances, occupations, material possessions
and behaviors give out messages. Sometimes it's too late to tell someone's got
the wrong idea until it's too late. I'm not ready to walk the last mile,
either.

>That's why I also say, check out your minds.

If I read this to mean "why are you doing what you're doing?", rest assured I
have no hidden agenda- I just feel that I've worked pretty hard to get where
I am, and I'm still getting there, and I want a little narcissism before I
strap on the chains of responsibility.

	-Kenny
-- 
Kenny Crudup, Contractor, OSF DCE QA
OSF, 11 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA 02142	+1 617 621 7306
kenny@osf.osf.org			OSF has nothing to do with this post.
	  Religion: The longest-running gag ever played on Mankind.
From: carl.camurca@travel.com (Carl Camurca)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Diva?!?
Date: 31 Oct 92 13:14:00 GMT
Reply-To: carl.camurca@travel.com (Carl Camurca)
Organization: Travel Online / St. Louis Online - St. Louis, MO

CM>> She is THE DIVA!! :-)

CM>Please don't associate her with an excellent movie!

You do not possibly mean "Diva" from Jean-Jaques Beneix?

CM>Rosie forever! :)

Who's this, anyway? Ross Perot after his sex change operation?

Greetinx, Carl.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * "Well, `dumb' has a silent `b'!" -- Dan Quayl
                                                                             
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american