From: thompson@pan.arc.nasa.gov (kevin thompson)
Subject: 'Spiritual bodies' cannot be electromagnetic
Organization: NASA-Ames, Space Sciences Div.
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 92 18:52:58 GMT


In article <1992Oct02.122724.40524@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk> ucsatsd@ucl.ac.uk
 (-8  Big Bad Bob (B3)  8-) writes 

>In article <1992Oct1.211045.29302@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes:
>>Huh?  How can the second body possibly be electromagnetic?  No test has
>>EVER detected such a second body on ANY electromagnetic frequency.  
>>Whatever the second body might be, it has been DECISIVELY shown NOT
>>to be elctromagnetic.  Just what are you basing this claim on?

 [ Stuff deleted ]

> Its just that the frequency, at this point, is getting very very
> high. (No, I don't know  how high!)

Sorry.  We can measure from ultra-low frequencies on the order of
one Hertz (cycle/sec) up to high-energy gamma rays.  And we can
measure electromagentic output from the human body and brain easily.
Your statement is ridiculous.  If a spiritual body were 
electromagnetic in nature (e.g., like ball lighting) we would
have no problem detecting it.

>Anyway, from what I remember of my physics days, the electron has been
>proven to be a small electromagnetic standing wave in a contained area.
>Since cyclotron  experiments have proven that electrons are splittable into
>quarks, as are protons and neutrons, then that means that all 3 types of
>'basic' particle are, being made of the same thing, also electromagnetic
>standing waves. Therefore, all matter is made up of electromagnetic waves
>as it is, and so the suggestion that any of the subtle bodies is not
>electromagnetic becomes odd.

This is wrong.  Electrons are not 'electromagnetic standing waves' (a
concept from classical physics).  Electrons are electrons.  Their 
properties can be described by quantum wave functions, and they 
interact electromagnetically, but they are not 'standing waves'. 
Nor are they composite particles; they are not made of quarks
(protons and neutrons are made of quarks).

Matter is not made up of electromagnetic waves!  Bits of matter
interact via elecromagnetic forces (among others), but to say that
matter is made up of EM waves is like saying that paper is made 
up of glue just because one can stick two pieces together with it.

Moreover, there are four known forces (strong, weak, electromagnetic,
and gravitational) which are quite distinct, not the one EM force
that you claim.  Efforts have long been made to find a unifying
principle which subsumes all four into one prescription, but
even if these efforts succeed, that one force will not be
electromagnetic.  That force will demonstrate some electromagnetic
aspects at 'low' energies (characteristic of our current universe).
(The EM and weak forces have been unified into one 'electroweak'
force, thanks to Feynmann and others.)

So: if your 'subtle bodies' are electromagnetic, we could detect them.
And there are forces other than the EM force.

>Incidentally,where do you authenticate your claim that the subtle 
> bodies have been 'DECISIVELY' proven to not be electromagnetic?

>Tim

Complete lack of evidence is a good start.  And you should learn
a lot more physics before you try to play in this particular
sandbox any more.

From: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Richard Beckett)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 10:30:31 GMT
Subject: Re: OOB test
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Labs, Bristol, UK