HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: drand@spinner.osf.org (Douglas Rand)
Subject: Re: ADVICE WANTED: Changing house outlets from 2 to 3 prongs
Organization: Open Software Foundation
	<NUGE.92Jul29095030@newport.med.ge.com> <1992Jul30.131715.9890@osf.org>
	<geS4TYL0Bwwb0aQ5Yn@transarc.com>
Distribution: usa
Date: 31 Jul 92 13:46:59

In article <geS4TYL0Bwwb0aQ5Yn@transarc.com> Lyle_Seaman@transarc.com writes:

   So I take it from following this thread that just because my hot-water
   radiators are grounded to my electrical system, doesn't mean that it's
   a good idea to wire the nearby radiator to the ground of the surge
   supressor into which my expensive computer is plugged? 

   Ah hell, I needed a haircut anyway.

No.  If you need a ground,  and there isn't one in the wall outlet,
check the continuity of the cold water pipe and use that (if it
checks out).

--
Douglas S. Rand <drand@osf.org>		OSF/Motif Dev.
Snail:         11 Cambridge Center,  Cambridge,  MA  02142
Disclaimer:    I don't know if OSF agrees with me... let's vote on it.
Amateur Radio: KC1KJ
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: ac55@vaxb.acs.unt.edu (Cathy Hardy, University of North Texas)
Subject: Fabric covered wall question
Organization: University of North Texas
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 20:37:25 GMT


Has anyone any experience with covering a wall with fabric?
How did/do you handle the seams between fabric?
I plan to adhere batting to the wall first, then staple the
fabric at ceiling and bottom (to be covered with molding).
I am tentatively planning to turn one selvage under 1" and
lap it over the other's selvage.  I thought by stretching the
fabric tightly the seam won't show.  Or should I use a glue
stick?
-- 
*********************************
Cathy Hardy                     * Here at the University of 
UNT, Academic Computing         * North Texas we can name our  
Internet: AC55@VAXB.ACS.UNT.EDU * own salary ....
BITNET:   AC55@UNTVM1           * I call mine Alphonse
From: "ron kulick" <ron.kulick@execnet.com>
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: furnace/water heater
Date: 25 Jul 92 12:38:08 EST
Reply-To: "ron kulick" <ron.kulick@execnet.com>
Distribution: misc
Organization: Executive Networks Information

         In article  In article <Brr39G.2C7@mail.boi.hp.com>
          In article <Brr39G.2C7@mail.boi.hp.com> writes...

AH>Presently, our builder wishes to use an A.O. Smith water heater

  "A.O. SMITH" is a very well built and efficient water heater. I did
the ordering of plumbing supplies for an agency of the City of New
York and wouldn't order anything else but A.O. Smith water heaters.

AH>Day & Night Formula furnace (both natural gas).

Never heard of this one! Is "Day & Night Formula" a brand name?

AH>Also, this furnace is rated as being 83% efficient (78 KBTUH
AH>in, 65 KBTUH out), which seems low for a modern furnace.  Any
AH>opinions on this?

  The BTUs needed are calculated by what the heating requirements of
your house are. If you live in a warm year round climate and the house
is well insulated these numbers might be correct.
  There is a table for these calculations but I don't have it handy.
You might try to get one from your local plumbing supply house.

          ==================================================
             Delivered by Electronic Sled dogs......WOOF!
                USENET ADDRESS: ron.kulick@execnet.com
          ==================================================
--
Executive Network Information System  (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re: Another meter question
Reply-To: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 02:30:49 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.220043.14342@col.hp.com> cab@col.hp.com (Chris Best) writes:
>>I'm upgrading my service, and the elec. co. sited my meter at a spot that
>>is a bit further away from the breaker box than ideal.  I'm rather constrained
>>as to the location of the box.  Bringing the main line through the wall
>>directly below the meter site puts it about 20 feet away from the box.  Is
>>it allowed to run the line (either outside or inside, in counduit) that far
>>before connecting to the main breaker?  Or would I be better off putting
>>a main breaker box right at the entrance point, then running to the "real"
>>box from there?  This is a 200amp service, by the way.
>
>----------
>
>Check the NEC (and/or whatever else applies), but here's a starter:
>There's a maximum distance the service can run inside the house before it gets
>to the panel.  I think it's probably less than 20 feet.  You might be better
>off running conduit (or cable where permitted) along the outside wall until
>you're close to the panel.

I helped restore/remodel an old place in midtown Atlanta. The owner wanted
the breaker box in the rear of the house, close to the kitchen. The
meter was on the front of the house. By the time the electrician was
done, the service drop came from the eaves down to the meter. The main
service cable then went back up to the attic level and ran the length
of the house before going down a few feet to the box. Total run from the
meter to the box was nearly 60 feet.

Yes, it did pass inspection. The inspector was the same one who decided
that 12 gauge was dangerous for a washing machine outlet and required
10 gauge in his area of town, so he was picky.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    |
George Patterson -  | He who is not a revolutionary at 16 has no heart.
                    | He who is a revolutionary at 60 has no head.
                    |                          Lord Chesterfield
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: d3a132@pnl.gov (Carl P Baker)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Chain link fence
Date: 26 Jul 92 17:29:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: oracle.1992Jul26.172926.13859
Reply-To: d3a132@pnl.gov
Organization: Battelle Pacific Northwest Laboratories

In article 16949@iex.uucp, danny@iex.UUCP (Danny Shaw) writes:
>
>	I will be tackling the installation of a 4' high chain 
>	link fence for my backyard, and not having done anything
>	like it before, I have some questions:
I haven't got any quotes myself for chain link fencing, but my
parents and some friends have, and from what I recall, the labor
to install the fencing was a pretty minor part of the cost.
Mostly, you are buying parts.  I suspect that you don't
save much money by doing it yourself in this particular instance.

Carl P Baker
cp_baker@pnl.gov
509-375-2724

Disclaimer: Any opinions expressed here are not necessarily
those of anyone in particular. Further, my employer is not
responsible for any opinions herein, or for any...(humorous
slam of employer deleted in the interests of)...
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re: painting tips?
Reply-To: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 14:55:04 GMT

In article <5000072@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com> hmoss@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Howard Moss) writes:

>Here's a simple question that has always bugged me: How do you set up
>your wood when your painting? I'm always painting shelves or cabinets and
>I still don't have a good system to use. Is there something I'm missing or
>does everyone just wing it? Usually, its an old cardboard box opened up
>on the ground with 1x2 or 2x2 studs supporting the wood in 2 places. Of course,
>I have to wait for the 1st side to dry before I can do the other side. Do any
>of you try to paint both sides at one sitting?

I do basically the same thing. I tend to use old jars or cans for two or
three point support. I paint what will be the bottom of the piece first,
wait on it to dry (a day or more) then flip it and paint the top and
sides.

You also might try tapping in a couple of small nails into one end and
hanging the piece. That will let you paint it in one coat. Of course, this
would only work if the nail holes wouldn't be a problem.

I've spray painted odd items (like the steering column for my old van)
by hanging them. This requires a little touch up work later.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    |
George Patterson -  | "Zero Defects": The result of shutting down a
                    |    production line.
                    |         Kelvin Throop - The Management Dictionary
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: kam@hpcvxkm.cv.hp.com (Keith Marchington)
Subject: Re: Deer-resistant Foliage Recommendations Sought
Reply-To: kam@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com
Organization: UTD-CV Corvallis, OR
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 23:00:40 GMT


In article <1992Jul24.203709.25467@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> you write:
|> From article <22752@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, by burnett@oasys.dt.navy.mil
(Cathy Burnett):
|> > I read (somewhere) that if you take an old nylon sock
|> > and stuff it with human hair and tie it to a stick
|> > near your plants, the deer will stay away.  I knew
|> > someone who tried that and it worked!
|> >
|> 
|> According to Spider Robinson in one of his books, if you "mark"
|> your property like dogs do, it will keep the bunnies and deer
|> away.  He further said that this would not work for vegetarians.
|> It might be if you have a dog and can persuade him/her to do this
|> that it would work also.
|> 

Unfortunately, this sort of thing doesn't work anymore.  Most deer
have become quite acclimated to the presence of humans, and the smell
of hair, urine or whatever else is not much of a deterrent.

I know that at my house, when the deer are in the back yard, I can go
outside and yell at them with little effect.  They usually just look
up at me with a 'So who are you?' sort of expression.  

We might have stumbled on a winner though.  We have four cats, so we
planted a catnip plant at the back of our property.  Seems as though
the deer find this quite a treat and haven't really bothered our other
plants since then.  Perhaps a few strategically located catnip plants
could be used to divert the deer from other more valuable plants.

I have also heard that hanging bars of soap on plants/trees around the
perimeter of the yard can be effective.  Seems that the deer are
attracted to whatever has the strongest scent.  They take a taste of
the soap and decide that they don't want to eat in that area.  I
haven't tried this method though.

Keith Marchington
Hewlett-Packard
From: danny@iex.UUCP (Danny Shaw)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Chain link fence
Summary: Installation questions
Date: 24 Jul 92 13:31:21 GMT
Organization: IEX Corporation (Texas)


	I will be tackling the installation of a 4' high chain 
	link fence for my backyard, and not having done anything
	like it before, I have some questions:

		1) How far apart should the post be?
		2) How deep should the holes be?
		3) What type of cement to use?
		4) How does one pull the chain link tight?
		5) How does one install the gate?

	Basically if someone could send the installation instructions
	they got when they installed thiers it would be a big help :-)

Thanks in advance!
-- 
Surgeons General Warning:  ))  //   Danny Shaw     \\     O               
       __________________ ((  //  IEX Corporation   \\    --->---______
      ())))))____________)}  // voice: (214)612-2600 \\   |            ---------
sig'ing_causes_cancer______//_mail:__uunet!iex!danny_\\ __\___>,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: iscstk@nuscc.nus.sg (Siew Teng Kean)
Subject: Prestorp Pergo flooring
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 08:21:50 GMT

Hi netters,

I am considering laying wood flooring in my new apartment and came across a
wood/laminate product called Prestorp's Pergo flooring. Has anyone come across
this before? I searched the flooring FAQ but found no mention of it. Strictly
speaking it is not wood flooring, but an imitation product. It comes in strips 
that are 7mm (1/4 in) thick, and has a laminate top veneer bonded to a wood 
compound with a bottom veneer. The local supplier claims it is extremely hardy. 
It is meant to be laid floating on a smooth base floor. From the brochure and
sample it looks very nice, and I like the fact that it is easily laid without
professional labor.

If some of you has used/seen/bought it before, I would like to know your views
on its durability, maintainability, value for money, etc. The local price is
high, I suspect he's making a killing on the product, so I would really like to
know what its real cost is.  In these parts, the pergo floor costs more than
real teak psf, so I'll like to know if that is reasonable, and if I can bargain
it down. Thanks.

Teng-Kean
-- 
Teng-Kean Siew         Dept. of Information Systems & Computer Science
iscstk@nuscc.nus.sg    National University of Singapore
(65) 772-2719
From: keith@badseed.Eng.Sun.COM (Keith)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Who to refinance with?
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:45:41 GMT
Reply-To: keith@badseed.Eng.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: badseed.eng.sun.com

Hey all you homeowning folks,

I'm looking for a recommendation for refinancing my house.  I'm mostly interested
in no cost type refinancings.  I don't have much spare cash at the moment so this
is really the only option.  My current rate is 9.375% and it's a 30 due in 7 years.
The loan was a jumbo.  If anyone has a recomendation of a company to look into,
please let me know.  If it matters, I'm in the SF bay area.

Thanks,
Keith
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,misc.invest.real-estate
From: waligora@hsi.com (Robert Waligora)
Subject: Re: building a house
Organization: 3M Health Information Systems, Wallingford CT
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 12:59:04 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.201412.28828@rtsg.mot.com> mehrpuya@rtsg.mot.com (Djamschid Mehrpuyan) writes:
>  <stuff deleted>
>  Here is what I know sofar:
>
>     1.  Buy some land
>     2.  Hire an architect who will design the house of your dreams
>     3.  Hire contractors (building contractors, electrician, etc)

If you plan to be the contractor, and hire all of the sub contractors
yourself, you will probably pay more. A contractor who works with the
same subcontractors gets a substantial discount, and better service
(since they know that if they screw up they will not get the next job).
You won't be building another house next month, so you will be low on
the list of priorities for the people you hire.

Not only will you pay more for the subcontractors you hire, but you will
pay retail for lumber, cabinets, floor tiles, carpets, lights, sinks,
fridge, stove and anything else you can think of.
-- 
+---->----> Robert Waligora ---->---->---->---->---->---->---->---->---->---->
| Yes it's "WALLY MAN", He dices,                  waligora@hsi.com
| He slices, He even makes julian fries.      {uunet, yale}!hsi!waligora
|                          - from WHAMMCO           (203)949-6481
Xref: sparky misc.consumers.house:10008 misc.invest.real-estate:372
From: jeff@claw.clearpoint.com (Jeffrey J. Griglack)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: building a house
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:14:17 GMT
	<Bs5IqH.1GJ@hsi.com>
Reply-To: jeff@fang.clearpoint.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: /home/jeff/.organization

On 29 Jul 92 12:59:04 GMT, waligora@hsi.com (Robert Waligora) said:
R> Nntp-Posting-Host: hsi86.hsi.com

R> If you plan to be the contractor, and hire all of the sub contractors
R> yourself, you will probably pay more. A contractor who works with the
R> same subcontractors gets a substantial discount, and better service
R> (since they know that if they screw up they will not get the next job).
R> You won't be building another house next month, so you will be low on
R> the list of priorities for the people you hire.

This is not necessarily true.  A friend of mine was his own contractor
in a slightly different way.  He hooked up with a contractor and paid
him 5% of the house value (instead of the normal ~20%) for the
contacts.  This gave him good contacts to people who were motivated to
do good work at a good price because he was introduced as another
contractor.  The contractor also delt with any hassles or bad work
that was done.  My friend got his house built cheaply and the
contractor did not need to do any of the day-to-day stuff (my friend
did this).

R> Not only will you pay more for the subcontractors you hire, but you will
R> pay retail for lumber, cabinets, floor tiles, carpets, lights, sinks,
R> fridge, stove and anything else you can think of.

This is not true at all.  All you have to do is convince the supply
houses that you are a contractor.  This is easy to do by just going to
the town hall and registering yourself as a business.  You may have to
pay a paperwork fee.  

Then go to the bank and open a business checking account.  Start the
checks at around 500 so it looks like you have been around for a while
and because some places (Sommerville Lumber around here) will not take
a check number under 300.  You will want another account anyway to
keep the building expenses seperate.

When you go to the stores, ask for contractor's prices.  Technically
you are a contractor becuase you are building your own house.  They
will usually be happy to discount because you will be buying a lot
from them.  A whole house worth of stuff :).  You may not be able to
get credit, but you can go on a cash basis.
--

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Jeff Griglack             |"Hey, you talking to me or are you just practicing|
|jeff@claw.clearpoint.com  | for one of those performances you do?"           |
|jeff@fang.clearpoint.com  |                          -- Lori Anderson        |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)
Subject: Re: Lead Based Paints
Organization: OSF Research Institute
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:44:56

In article <1992Jul24.175840.446@cs.ucla.edu>,
waldorf@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Jerry Waldorf) writes:

   How does one tell if the paint on the house is lead based?

In article <1992Jul24.191507.21812@stsci.edu> davids@stsci.EDU (David
Silberberg) replies:

   There are 2 ways....

There are also kits you can buy for lead testing.

   If you do not plan any construction, the outer coat is all that counts.

This is false!  Lead paint is a hazard to small children even if
covered with other paint.  They are exposed in three ways: 1) flaking
and peeling; 2) dust from moving parts; 3) chewing.  In case (1) an
intact coat (even if it is lead paint) is NOT a hazard.  In case (2),
even apparently good-condition paint on moving parts (notably window
sashes) generates a significant amount of lead dust.  As for case (3),
it is significant on all protruding parts, namely edges of doors,
edges of window stools (the inside shelf on a window, often called a
sill), corners of baseboard molding, etc.

To protect children fully (as required by Massachusetts law, for
instance), you must delead all moving parts and all protruding trim up
to 4 feet off the floor, as well as removing flaking and peeling
paint.  I think the Massachusetts law is a bit too strict.  Still, in
our house we have replaced all window sash, parting beads, stops,
stools, base caps, and door casings, and stripped all door frames.
Doors are next.  By the way, the dust raised during renovation is full
of lead dust, so be sure to keep children out during renovation, and
to clean thoroughly before moving in.

The other issue is WHY you are removing the lead.  Is it to protect
from real hazards, to meet a legal standard, or to make the house
easier to sell?

   There is a product that is great for lead abatement called "Peel
   Away 1."  It was rated as the best paint stripper by Consumer
   Reports Magazine.

Stripping is not always the best way to delead.  It is often cheaper
to replace molding with new, remilled molding.  If you have nice
molding, be sure to remill the SAME PROFILE.  Don't satisfy yourself
with inferior stock molding, even if it is a lot cheaper.  It is also
possible (as I've mentioned before) to replace existing sash with
near-identical wooden sash, avoiding the various vinyl and aluminum
atrocities available on the market.

	-s
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: fredch@phx.mcd.mot.com (Fred Christiansen)
Subject: which aluminum window to choose
Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Technical Systems Division
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 22:21:38 GMT

I have talked with and gotten quotes from a number of aluminum window
distributors.  Of course, they all think they represent a better window.
So, I'm interested in what real people have experienced with:
	Alenco
	Better-Bilt
	International
	Jordan
	MasterView

One difference in construction that caught my eye was that Better-Bilt
and International use spiral balances on single hung windows, while
Alenco and Jordan use block-and-tackle.  Is this significant?  Thx much!
-- 
Fred Christiansen, Motorola, 2900 S Diablo Way, Tempe, AZ 85282  "Canajun, eh?"
fredch@phx.mcd.mot.com  ||  uunet!phx.mcd.mot.com!fredch  ||  +1 602-438-3464
  On Attitude & the Immune System:  A sound heart is the life of the flesh:
    but envy the rottenness of the bones.  Prov 14:30
From: hmoss@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Howard Moss)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:12:09 GMT
Subject: Re: Ants!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house

Actually, I like ants because its fun to try and find their entry hole.
I calmly watch them as they walk and then follow their main line back 
to where they are coming in from. Many possibilities exist like along the
kitchen waterpipes or through the walls around electrical sockets or through
holes between wallboard and trim. Once you find the hole, its relatively easy
to run some silicon caulking or expanding insulating foam or even tissue
stuffed into the hole! Around electrical sockets, I've used these little
insulating gaskets, but actually that was for insulating only and I'm not
sure if that will stop ants. I stopped them in my laundry room socket by 
putting silicon caulking around the space between the socket and the face-
plate. After you've plugged their entry hole, then WASTE 'EM!
Howard
ps. I found that the only place I couldn't seal was the sliding glass
patio door. I have since mellowed on the chemical trip and just spray
some ant stuff whenever the ants find that path (once a year).
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: eliot@chutney.rtp.dg.com (Topher Eliot)
Subject: Spraying water on AC coils (was Ground source heat pump)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 17:11:09 GMT
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: eliot@dg-rtp.dg.com
Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC

In article <1992Jul29.204202.6460@b11.b11.ingr.com>, lester@naomi.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Les Bartel) writes:
|> Has anyone experimented with running/spraying water on the coils outside
|> the house to increase the efficiency of the heat_pump/air_conditioner?
|> Rust would likely be a problem.  Comments anyone?

I saw just such a setup being sold at a homeowners show in Austin, TX some
years ago.  It used copper tubing and brass nozzles to spritz the coils about
once a minute.  They said that they avoided mineral buildup on the coils
by spraying enough water so that some would run off, taking the minerals with
it.  They didn't spray continuously because it would use excessive water.

Such a setup cost something like $500 installed, which struck me as a lot for
what you got -- a timer, a solenoid valve, some tubing and some valves.

Why would rust be an issue?  This stuff is built for rain exposure.  Is rain
less of a problem in causing rust?  I guess the mineral content of your local
water supply could do darn near anything, depending on what it is.

I would do it here but the air coming into the coils is already at 100% 
humidity anyway :-(

-- 
Topher Eliot             Data General DG/UX Systems Administration Development
(919) 248-6371      eliot@dg-rtp.dg.com       {backbone}!mcnc!rti!dg-rtp!eliot
Obviously, I speak for myself, not for DG.
misc.consumers.house archivist.  Send mail to house-archive@dg-rtp.dg.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,misc.taxes,misc.inv.real-estate