From: mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (Mazen Mokhtar)
Subject: Re: Political cleansing in Egypt
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:11:27 GMT

In article <28191@optima.cs.arizona.edu> bakken@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Bakken) writes:

>I think the Egyptian government is far from perfect.  But I do
>think that your buddies in Egypt would be trying to overthrow it
>if it were perfect, if it weren't a fully Islamic (by their definition)
>government.  Even if it weren't the right flavor of Islam.

  First, if the government is not Islamic, then it is not perfect. Second,
there is only one flavor of Islam. Muslims have a multitude of opinion, but
Islam guarantees the rights of people to discuss their opinions in order to
arrive at useful conclusions, even if some of these opinions are clearly
wrong. People have the right to be mistaken.

>Yes, it is not surprising to see you blame the deaths on someone
>other than your buddies.  No doubt another sinister consipracy
>at work.  And, since it is hidden and sinister, there is no way
>I can disprove it.

  The killing of Islamists in Egypt is sinister, but it is not hidden.

>And I'm not ready to forgive the government all its sins.  I just
>think that the alternative you strive for would be much worse
>and is not what most Egyptians want.  People would have far
>fewer religious and political rights than they do now.

  Islam guarantees Muslims and nonMuslims their religious and political
rights. The current government in Egypt guarantees that these rights will
be disregarded. Martial law has been in effect since most Egyptians can
remember.

>OK, tell me how many authentic newspapers in Havana criticize
>Papa Fidel!  Can you name one?

  Is Cuba going to become our model? I'd rather live under a government which
has no choice but to allow me to disagree with it. An Islamic government.

>This is true only de jure.  De facto it would be much worse.

  Very interesting. May I ask for the evidence for such a claim?

>This is true because the most extreme and the most ``Islamic''
>tend to rise to power. And those who disagree are heretics and would get shot.

  The most extreme are by definition not the most Islamic, since Islam is
"The religion of the middle." As for disagreement, the right is guaranteed
by Islam and not by the current government. So, if you care for that right
I invite you to support an Islamic government in Egypt.

>I think that they are waging war on the part of the population that wants to
>violently overthrow the government so they can ram Sharia
>down everyone's throats.

  The Egyptian government is ramming its ill-conceived laws down my thoat
now. It is not waging war only on the violent segments of the population, it
is waging war on all those who effectively resist it. Clearly you are unaware
of how many Muslims are arrested with no charges and are later freed with
no explanation. I know people who are not involved in any organization who
have been arrested on each of their last few trips to Egypt because the way
they look and dress is "suspicious."

  Those Egyptians (and Algerians) who disagree with Islamic government should
vote against it and respect the ultimate choice of the people.

>  And I think most Egyptians hope their government succeeds.

  Now here, you are absolutely wrong. Egyptians may be divided on their
opinion on Islamists, but very few Egyptians consider the Liman Torah
incident a model for government action.


Mazen Mokhtar
Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:5604 soc.culture.misc:462 soc.misc:1075 alt.sex:39390