From: sfm@manduca.neurobio.arizona.edu (Stephen Matheson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: PAC-10 vs. Big-10 (was Re: Mediocracy vs Money)
Date: 20 Nov 92 23:13:25 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona UNIX Users Group

From article <BILLMS.92Nov20075611@quip.eecs.umich.edu>,
by billms@eecs.umich.edu (William Mangione-Smith):
> In article <1992Nov20.030804.9175@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>
> sfm@manduca.neurobio.arizona.edu (Stephen Matheson) writes:
> 
>    From article <BILLMS.92Nov19185113@gip.eecs.umich.edu>,
>    by billms@eecs.umich.edu (William Mangione-Smith):
>    > In article <1992Nov19.202837.21682@serval.net.wsu.edu>
>    > jjungbau@meriadoc.eecs.wsu.edu (Jim Jungbauer) writes:
>    > 
>    >    No kidding!  It's especially ridiculous that the Big Ten
>    >    will probably have as many or more teams in bowls than the
>    >    PAC-10.  Every time I hear about Iowa going to the Copper
>    >    Bowl at 6-5 I cringe, knowing that WSU is more deserving.
>    >    Even if we lose the Apple Cup, at 7-4, we're still better
>    >    than Iowa.
>    > 
>    > What teams has WSU lost to, and which ones has it beaten?
>    > Iowa has lost to several ranked teams, and looked pretty darn
>    > good through the year.  They gave Miami a game, though not a
>    > real scare.
> 
>    Hey, I think Northwestern lost to some ranked teams, too!  Why
>    aren't they being considered for a bowl?  In respectable college
>    bowl games (which the Copper apparently isn't), *winning* games
>    is a fairly high priority.
> 
> Stephen, do you get rewarded for being a good team or beating any team?
> What do you think is right?  I've seen Iowa several times, and with
> their qb back healthy they are a very good football team.  This years
> Iowa team, I'm pretty convinced, is better than almost any recent WSU
> team.  Maybe not this years WSU team, I don't know.  Thats why I asked.
> Why did you fly off the handle?

I'm sorry.  My ballistic trajectory was the result of the behavior of
the Copper Bowl, which is widely regarded in Tucson as unfathomably
stupid, and has been rumored to be motivated by spite (see earlier
post quoting Tucson paper).  My opinion about the bowlability of the
Cougars has more to do with who the Cougars are (a first-division
PAC-10 team) than with who the Hawkeyes are.  And, as the CB officials
(as well as several posters to this newsgroup) have said, they really
need a team that will bring a lot of fans.  Anyway, although I do
feel that the PAC-10 is vastly superior to the Big 10, I'll step
back from my rudeness towards Iowa, and simply say that I think
any team that can go 5-3 in the PAC-10 (I think that's what Wazzu's
record would be if they lose to the Huskies) and 7-4 overall is a
team that should be in a bowl game.

One more note on the Copper: the really dumb thing about the Iowa
decision was not necessarily inviting Iowa, but inviting them so
soon, before the always-unpredictable PAC-10 season wrapped up.
For example, by waiting just a few days, the Copper could have
landed Arizona State (which would be 6-5 with a win Saturday over
Arizona) or Arizona (which could end up bowl-less if a few games
turn out the wrong way).  Their hastiness and alleged spitefulness
may have cost them the local fan support that they'll need to fill
the stadium no matter who is playing.

> Jim was saying that WSU was much better than Iowa and deserved to go
> to the bowl ahead of them.  Thats a lot different from saying that WSU
> has a better record, unless you believe that the better team *always*
> wins and all schedules are created equal.  Based on the responce that
> somebody else posted, I think its pretty clear that WSU has beaten some
> solid teams this year. 
> 
> Bill
> 
> --
> -------------------------------
> 	Bill Mangione-Smith
> 	billms@eecs.umich.edu
--

Steve Matheson   Program in Neuroscience   University of Arizona
sfm@neurobio.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college