HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shiell@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Larry Shields)
Subject: Re: musings upon musings
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:39:48 GMT

In article <JUSTIN93Jan22.164237@inmet.camb.inmet.com> justin@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Justin du Coeur MKA Mark Waks) writes:
>I would slightly amend Aimee's point, although I mostly agree with it.
>It isn't necessarily "personal advantage" that draws people, so much as
>what you're good at. I don't have much "advantage" per se in SIL --
>truth to tell, I'm not an especially good gamer. (I frequently succeed
>in my character's goal, but that's just because I'm good at piggybacking
>onto more talented schemers.)

     I agree, that its not always what you are good at that makes you join
a particular group.  I know people who aren't very good with the foam weapons
the IFGS uses, some who don't even particularly care about the combat at all,
but just do it as part of the game.  Yet they still play a 'enacted combat'
system.  THe key thing is what you really enjoy, and if you're having a good
time.  Thats all that ever really matters.

>The reason I like IL so much, though, is that it's largely built around
>character acting, and *that* I'm fairly decent at. It doesn't necessarily
>give me advantages, but it correlates with my skills, and that means
>that I have a good time, regardless of whether I "win" or "lose"...
>
>				-- Justin du Coeur

   And there is the key.  Who cares if you win or lose, as long as when the
day is done, you can say you had a good time.  (Of course, alot of people
have a far better time when they win, but the key is that when you lose, you
still enjoyed yourself.)  
   After having a character die on me in a recent game we played, and in the
last encounter after we thought everything was pretty much over, I had to 
really ask myself if the death of the character was going to make me remember
the whole day in a bad light.  It wasn't easy to lose the character, but the
day itself was still a blast, and the adventure was still alot of fun to have
done.  

-- 
==========================================================================
    "I cannot kill the one I love!"      # Larry Shields ------- Blackwolf
    "Then kill the one you're with!"     # '70 Torino GT ----- '87 GSXR750 
     -Crow, MST3000, Fugitive Alien      # ------- shiell@rpi.edu --------
Newsgroups: alt.games.frp.live-action
From: justin@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Justin du Coeur MKA Mark Waks)
Subject: Re: FAQ-list, anyone?
Organization: Many, Sundry, and Odd
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:38:21 GMT

In article <#8l3qyj@rpi.edu> shiell@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Larry Shields) writes:
>Okay, something I think needs to be said, and made clear, is the SCA is
>_NOT_ a Live Action Role Playing group at the core.  Yes, people have personas
>that they pretend to be, and yes they have a combat system that they have 
>battles with, but the key thing is they are a Medieval Re-enactment group.
>No Spells, no classes, nada.  Its an amazingly good time, and you can learn
>alot about anything from medieval history if you want to, cause there is 
>someone around who wants to teach it to you.  But it -isnt- a Fantasy type 
>adventure thing at all.  For those wanting more info about the SCA, they 
>should read rec.org.sca.  (They also post a FAQ).  

Larry's description is essentially correct -- the SCA is many things,
but roleplaying is definitely secondary for most people. I'd just like to
amend it slightly, though -- the SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism) isn't
really a re-enactment group, so much as a re-creation group. The difference is
subtle, but important, because there are a lot of re-enactment groups out
there. "Re-enactment" generally means recreating *specific* historical events;
for example, the people in Lexington, MA who refight battles on the
town green each year are re-enactors. Re-creation, in the SCA sense,
tends to mean that we *do* fight wars (among other things), but they're
strictly unchoreographed, and rarely have anything to do with specific
historical events...

Anyway, if anyone wants info on the SCA, send me email, and I'll be
happy to help...

				-- Justin du Coeur
				   Active in many, many strange
				     organizations, but SCA foremost

Random Quote du Jour:

"Love is like pork rinds. At first, it seems disgusting. Then, you try it,
 and it seems okay. Then you find out what goes into it, and you realize
 that you were right the first time. Except love isn't crunchy."
		-- Pete Granger
From: d91-noa@tekn.hj.se (ANDERS NORDSTRM)
Newsgroups: alt.games.frp.live-action
Subject: LRP in Sweden
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:04:07 GMT
Organization: H|gskolan i J|nk|ping

Greetings

If anyone would be interested of LRP in Sweden, you could contact me.
We have formed a contact-net for Live here, and I happens to be the 
secretary. The net is called "The Morningstar" or "Morgonstjarnan" (in 
swedish). We have a magazine, which should be released four times each year 
(but seldom is). Unfortunately the magazine is written in Swedish. 

Anyway, I am most interested in rules for all sorts of LRP (especially 
fantasy and horror), because we (my RPG-club) are almost finished with our 
own rules (90 pages now and growing). We have read all rules we have been 
able to get our hands on, and we try to incorporate smart ideas from other 
systems that we haven't thought of ourselves. So, if you have rules for LRP 
in ASCII or Word-Perfect-format, and would like to share them with us, we 
would be most grateful. I promise that I won't copy them, I would just like 
to read and analyse them. Thanks in advance...

Anders Nordstrom
d91-noa@tekn.hj.se
Tel:036-18 62 81 (if you are in Sweden)
Newsgroups: alt.games.frp.live-action
From: jim@visix.com (Jim Edwards-Hewitt)
Subject: Re: FAQ-list, anyone?
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 22:31:07 GMT
Reply-To: jim@visix.com
Organization: Visix Software Inc., Reston, VA


Here's my standard boilerplate description for "What is
Interactive Literature (in 150 words or less)".  I thought I'd
post it and see if any of the other IL participants here had any
comments before submitting it for the FAQ.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Interactive Literature evolved out of improvisational theatre,
conventional role-playing games, and complex "assassin"-type
games.  A typical game might involve thirty to eighty players
taking the part of characters in a situation, with a network of
interconnecting motivations that provide the driving force for
the action in the game.  IL games have a small set of rules that
simulate activities that would be impractical or unsafe to play
out, and to simulate abilities of the character that the player
may not possess.  The majority of play consists of interacting
with the other players "in character" to accomplish your
character's goals and discover new ones.  Games have been run
with science fiction, fantasy, historical, and literary themes,
as well as others that are difficult to classify.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

	-- Jim

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Edwards-Hewitt               jim@visix.com | Life is a game where 
President, Interactive Literature Foundation   | you play yourself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mohney@cs.arizona.edu (Christopher W Mohney)
Newsgroups: alt.games.frp.live-action
Subject: New LARP group in Tucson
Summary: Request for help in establishing LARP group in Tucson, AZ
Date: 20 Jan 93 21:54:24 GMT
Followup-To: mohney@caslon.cs.arizona.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

A group I play with recently started experimenting in live action gaming.
To date we have only run two life action games, both of which were of
Vampire: the Masquerade.  The first was a murder-mystery set in Chicago,
and the second a follow up to the first, was a political session to elect
a new Prince of Chicago (Lodin was the victim in the first game).  Both of
these have gone over very well, and plans are underway for new games at
regular intervals in the near future.  The next should be a LARP session 
of Calahan's Crosstime Saloon (ala GURPS) at a local bar.  The group now 
consists of about 20 gamers.  
	What I'd like is more information on LARP.  I'm new to this group,
and many of the groups discussed are new to me.  Specifically, information
on the SIL and IFGS and other such groups would be helpful.  Also, any info
on Live gaming such as newsletters and con standards would be appreciated.
Like I said, so far we have only run Vampire, and more on Vampire in other
areas would be appreciated, but any information on live gaming would be
helpful.

Please mail me directly:  mohney@caslon.cs.arizona.edu

Thanks for you help!

Chris Mohney
mohney@caslon.cs.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: alt.games.frp.live-action
From: box@sal-sun90.usc.edu (Montgomery Box)
Newsgroups: alt.games.frp.live-action
Subject: LARP in LA?
Date: 21 Jan 1993 23:13:36 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sal-sun90.usc.edu


Hi!

	As the subject says, I'd like to get involved in a LARP in the LA area.
Are there any?  The only ones I've seen on here are for the East Coast.

Thanks
Monte Box
box@scf.usc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.games.frp.live-action
From: peiper@athena.cs.uga.edu (Garfield)
Subject: Live RolePlaying Game In Atlanta Area on Feb. 27
Summary: Aria Game on Feb. 27th
Keywords: ARIA
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:30:11 GMT

	I hope this posts... This is My first time Doing this. I wanted to take
this Chance to invite Anyone living around the Atlanta Area. Specifically
Athens, Georgia ( where the event is held) to participate in a Live-RolePlaying
game on Saturday Feb. 27th. The event is Called ARIA. It is a spin-off of
a group called ARC Based at the University of Georgia. The ARIA Rules are
very Simple, and the emphasis is on roleplaying, and you personal abilities.
There are Mages, Druids, Fighters, and Rogue Classes. Your "skills" depend
on your level and how good you are. ie. If you want to Sneak up on someone
and surprise them, you must REALLY Sneak up on them. If you are a rogue then
you do extra damage to them with said "backstab". It is a very simple system
and the price is minimal ( $6 for the first time, $3 from then on). There
are many plots and Sub-plots some of which are planned, some of which
are inspired by Player Actions. If you are interested in this please
send email to peiper@athena.cs.uga.edu and i can answer any questions and
send you any information you wish to have. 
				
				Richard peiper
				The NEW Mage Guildmaster
				( assuming I win the Dual)

Newsgroups: alt.games.frp.live-action
From: shiell@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Larry Shields)
Subject: Re: FAQ-list, anyone?
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 20:44:13 GMT

In article <CMM.0.90.2.727749846.arvidg@holmenkollen.ifi.uio.no> Arvid <arvidg@ifi.uio.no> writes:
>  - SCA?
>
>- What are the (major) differences between the above?

     Okay, something I think needs to be said, and made clear, is the SCA is
_NOT_ a Live Action Role Playing group at the core.  Yes, people have personas
that they pretend to be, and yes they have a combat system that they have 
battles with, but the key thing is they are a Medieval Re-enactment group.
No Spells, no classes, nada.  Its an amazingly good time, and you can learn
alot about anything from medieval history if you want to, cause there is 
someone around who wants to teach it to you.  But it -isnt- a Fantasy type 
adventure thing at all.  For those wanting more info about the SCA, they 
should read rec.org.sca.  (They also post a FAQ).  

>I guess what I'd like to send him is some descriptions of, and some
>kind of adresses to, LARP organisations in the U.S. And then I think
>to myself again: "Isn't this FAQ stuff?"

    It does indeed sound like the stuff that FAQ's are made of.  I will
volunteer to collect a list of names/addreses/numbers to contact for each 
different group...(If someone else is more gung ho and really wants to do this
go ahead!  I yield!)   If you mail me the info for your group and also let 
me know a _short_ summary of what makes your style unique, whatever, I'll 
get it all together for a FAQ.  Also, a list of things you would want answered
in a FAQ for this group.  Lets see what we can put together...
>
>My guess is it is. I've seen enough postings of the kind "Is there a
>LARP group somewhere near <your favorite town/univerity here>?" to
>justify some kind of a "For info on the FOO email foo@bar or call
>555-1234 or write to ..." posting, or better yet, a list.

   I agree that such a list would be a good and handy thing.
Well, it will be up to you out there to supply me with the info I need to 
make this thing, so lets see what kind of response I get....

-- 
==========================================================================
  "My vision, one nation, one tribe,     # Larry Shields ------- Blackwolf
  one day will come the might to move    # -------- ITS Operator ---------      
   any mountain" - The Shamen            # ------- shiell@rpi.edu --------
Newsgroups: alt.games.frp.live-action
From: dzik@access.digex.com (Joseph Dzikiewicz)
Newsgroups: alt.games.frp.live-action
Subject: Re: FAQ-list, anyone?
Date: 28 Jan 1993 07:56:29 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <C1HFvw.LyI@visix.com> jim@visix.com writes:
>
>Here's my standard boilerplate description for "What is
>Interactive Literature (in 150 words or less)".  I thought I'd
>post it and see if any of the other IL participants here had any
>comments before submitting it for the FAQ.


I'd add a mention to murder mystery evening type events.  I ususally find
that people have heard of those even if they have not heard of IL.  When
explaining IL, I usually first ask my listener whether he has heard of
those murder mystery games.


(alt.games.frp.live-action has finally shown up on my system!  Huzzah!)

Newsgroups: alt.games.frp.live-action
From: tad@intercon.com (Tad L. J. Pierson)
Newsgroups: alt.games.frp.live-action
Subject: Re: musings upon musings
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:21:44 -0500
Organization: InterCon Systems Corporation
Distribution: world
Reply-To: tad@intercon.com (Tad L. J. Pierson)
NNTP-Posting-Host: tad.intercon.com
X-Newsreader: InterCon TCP/Connect II 1.1b35

In article <1993Jan21.030238.27527@athena.mit.edu>, ayermish@athena.mit.edu 
(Aimee Yermish) writes:
 
> I've found that most people tend to prefer a gaming system (or a 
> combat system, which is a subset of the gaming system as a whole) 
> which they perceive to give them the maximum personal advantage over 
> the rest of the people out there.  This is rarely a conscious 
> preference, but it really does seem to be ubiquitous.  Don't tell me it 
> doesn't really apply to you -- I've yet to meet a person who knows 
> himself that well. 

Aw, Aimee..... all anyone wants in a LARP is "their fair advantage", nothing 
wrong with that.....

> What we try to do in the SIL is twofold.  First, we write the plots so 
> that actions like sword-swinging aren't the main focus of the game, but 
> rather that interpersonal skills such as negotiation, trickery, making 
> allies, etc, are what really get you ahead.  

As a corollary:  it appears that IFGS, like table gaming, puts a slightly 
higher value on combat over role playing, whereas SIL style gaming (or 
rather, gamers) avoids combat as it slows down the game.  Also, in SIL style 
games, when you only have your character for the weekend, you want to 
maximize his/her life to get the most out of the game.  In "Secrets of the 
Necronomicon" I made it to 1PM on Sunday, almost a personal best for me, 
since I usually get gacked sometime late Sat. night. ;-)

>To trick them, you 
> have to really trick them.  No one is going to knuckle under to you 
> because the script asks them to.  That means that it may be a 
> trifle tougher to succeed, but it also means that any success you do 
> have is real success, not tainted by the fact that the GMs planned it 
> and ensured it.

And brother is it hard!  Even if you have "skills" given to you in game to 
use, it helps to have a glib tongue.  Generally there are no dice rolls to 
help you, you need to do it on your own.  Now, you can just flash your card 
that states your skill and tell someone "Here is what you believe" but it's 
more fun to try to role play it out.



Tad L. J. Pierson

"Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodies?"

These are my opinions only!  Reasonable people here at InterCon probably do not share them.
From: dzik@access.digex.com (Joseph Dzikiewicz)
Newsgroups: alt.games.frp.live-action
Subject: Playing abilities different then your own
Date: 28 Jan 1993 08:16:54 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <1993Jan21.190047.3623@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> taylorje@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (TAYLOR JASON EDMOND) writes:
>   Let me throw this back on you: do characters in SIL have an "intellegence"
>score, and they can only solve puzzles if their score is high enough? Do
>they have a "charisma" score that they must communicate to other characters
>and those other characters must base their reactions off?
>   It sounds silly, but then, how is a "combat" score any different?

If played correctly, a player will act no more intelligent or charismatic
then his or her character.  I have figured out mysteries as a player that
I did not solve in the game because my character could not have solved
them.  Playing charisma is more fun: playing a disgusting uncharismatic
character who anyone with good sense would try to avoid can be a blast!

So yes, it is very possible to "play down" your abilities in an IL-type
game.  Which raises a question: do those of you who play live-combat 
style games ever, when playing an inexperienced character, use less than
your full ability in combats?  Do you ever intentionally miss a blow, or
fail to parry, because your character would lack the ability to do so?



All of this avoids another problem, which is a bit more difficult.  How
do you play a character who is smarter then yourself?  Better fighter can be
 done in IL-style games where you don't actually fight.  More charismatic
is possible with the acquiescence of the other players.  (If they
act charmed, then you have been charming.)  But how do you be smarter
than you are?

This is a problem that I am soon to face, as I am playing Sherlock Holmes
at Vagabond.  Now I know more than Holmes in several areas (I 
understand computers, and I know that the earth goes around the sun, in
both of which I exceed Holmes).  However, in his area of expertise, I
don't come close to approaching Holmes in intellectual ability.  I
admit to being a bit worried that I will fail to solve mysteries that
Holmes would find simple, and in this I will fail in my characterization.

Or take Holmes's stunt in which he tells everything about a person by
observing little details of the person's clothes and body.  How do I do
this in game without first showing the person an ability card, getting him
to tell me about himself, and then parrot what he has just revealed in
character?  Doing it that way would ruin the effect, to my mind.

In any event, it should make for an interesting challenge.  After all,
if all of this stuff were easy, where would be the fun in it?
  

Newsgroups: alt.games.frp.live-action
From: duanew@atlastele.com
Subject: Re: I.F.G.S.
Organization: Atlas Telecom Inc.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 23:09:45 GMT

In article <1it9biINNhmj@pith.uoregon.edu>, bjorn@zenb.uoregon.edu (Jeff D. Robin) writes:
>Greetings and Salutations,
>
>	I am looking to see if anyone would be interested in starting a  
>live action roleplaying game on the U of O (Eugene,OR) campus.  The game  
>is I.F.G.S. and is very easy to run it just takes ALOT of bodies to do it.  
>it is fun so we shall see what we can do.
>
>drop a line if interested
>

Well I am not exactly interested but I belong to another live action role
playing game that is currently established in the Eugene/Springfield area.
If you are interested drop me a line at duanew@atlastele.com.

Duane [DR.] Watts

PS Your address (bjorn@zenb.uoregon.edu) keeps bouncing.

Newsgroups: alt.games.frp.live-action
From: taylorje@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (TAYLOR JASON EDMOND)
Subject: Re: LARP in LA?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:58:49 GMT

In article <1jo6r0INN99a@sal-sun90.usc.edu> box@sal-sun90.usc.edu (Montgomery Box) writes:
>
>Hi!
>
>	As the subject says, I'd like to get involved in a LARP in the LA area.
>Are there any?  The only ones I've seen on here are for the East Coast.
>
>Thanks
>Monte Box
>box@scf.usc.edu

   There are 2 IFGS chapters in the Los Angeles/Southern Cal area...I would
be happy to look up some contacts for you.


*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Jason Taylor -- University of Colorado at Boulder                   *
* taylorje@rintintin.colorado.edu / taylorje@kinglear.cs.colorado.edu *
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
Newsgroups: alt.games.frp.live-action
From: aclark@netcom.com (Al Clark)
Subject: Re: oops, one of these years I'l learn how to continue a thread...
Organization: Self
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 16:02:48 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.212806.22198@athena.mit.edu> ayermish@athena.mit.edu (Aimee Yermish) writes:
>...after reading all the other articles so I don't go off half-cocked.
>
>Please, please, people.  I think we can all agree on a few things.
>
>1.  Being someone else for a few hours, days, or years, is a hell of a
>lot of fun.
>
    [ much of eminently intelligent article deleted ]

    Great to hear your sane voice on this new group.  Maybe I won't
    have to unsubscribe after all.
 
>        All of our game systems work to a very great
>extent on the Honor System, just because there are lots more players
>than GMs, so we should all be used to exercising a little bit of
>self-restraint.  Please, let's see if we can apply that admirable
>skill here.
>
       Hear! Hear!

>Sorry if I sound like your mom.  Listen to me anyway.  No one
>appointed me G-d of the Usenet, but I might just have something to say
>worth listening to.
>
>--Aimee
-- 
Al - aclark@netcom.com - My opinions are my own.
Newsgroups: alt.games.frp.live-action
From: justin@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Justin du Coeur MKA Mark Waks)
Subject: Re: musings upon musings
Organization: Many, Sundry, and Odd
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:42:37 GMT

I would slightly amend Aimee's point, although I mostly agree with it.
It isn't necessarily "personal advantage" that draws people, so much as
what you're good at. I don't have much "advantage" per se in SIL --
truth to tell, I'm not an especially good gamer. (I frequently succeed
in my character's goal, but that's just because I'm good at piggybacking
onto more talented schemers.)

The reason I like IL so much, though, is that it's largely built around
character acting, and *that* I'm fairly decent at. It doesn't necessarily
give me advantages, but it correlates with my skills, and that means
that I have a good time, regardless of whether I "win" or "lose"...

				-- Justin du Coeur

Random Quote du Jour:

"What is this? Where is everyone? Oh shit. I'm dead. And I told
 Gwendolyn I'd be back for dinner. Hello? Hello? Anyone there? This
 is worse than I imagined. And I thought being dead was like a long
 vacation, except you don't get paid. Oh nononono! Here comes God
 and I haven't any clean underwear!"
		-- from KlingKlangKlatch