HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: n9040513@henson.cc.wwu.edu (aldridge andrea)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: A New-To-The Rialto Inquiry to Rialtans
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:58:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Apr9.235838.4012
Organization: Western Washington University

Just curious, and I know this probably comes up at least once a day, but I 
don't so be patient with me (How's that for a disclaimer):

What's the origin of the nickname for this Group, "The Rialto"?
                        
                                         Elspeth Gunn of Strathmore
-- 
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<>  Andrea Aldridge   IRC:  Folkie   E-Mail: n9040513@henson.cc.wwu.edu   <>
<>  WWU--452 Edens Hall North/Bellingham, WA 98225 USA     206-734-0270   <>
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Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: yoshi@agora.uucp (Katherine Stewart)
Subject: Re: Re: SCA in fiction - need help
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 10:09:40 GMT



Try Knightfall by Mary Monica Pulver (origninally published as Murder at the
War) and Dream Park by Steven Barnes and Larry Niven. The first is a murder
mystery at Pennsic, the second is a SF novel.

-- 
Starguard 		yoshi@agora.rain.com 
"I can't change my mind, I only have one."
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Camp Ovens
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:05:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.scf0gINN4jv
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Apr12.210738.2516@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Carl J.M. Alexander) writes:
"In article <4095@sumax.seattleu.edu> kohrn@sumax.seattleu.edu (David Kohrn) writes:

[Increase in population in the 12th century because of more cast iron
cookpots?]

>I would indeed be interested in seeing a reference on this.  If I 
>recall correctly, cast iron .... was a late 17th C. invention. 
	It may be that there was 
>a radical increase in the supply of iron (wrought iron) around the 
>start of the 12th C., hence more use of iron for cookware, but I 
>don't know.   

Well, they started wearing more plate around then, did they not, and
I believe it was because metalworking had improved to the point that
you could _get_ large, flat hunks of metal more easily.  Certainly
some iron cookpots were used in early period; I have seen photographs
of Viking and Saxon ones.  But they were made of several iron plates,
overlapped and rivted together, and were probably worth as much as
several helms (of similar construction but smaller size) or one average-
sized village.

Any metalworkers, armourers and/or researchers who can tell us more about
period metal-hammering and -rolling techniques?

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
From: branwen@cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA in SF/Authors
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:04:43 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <9204141554.aa28298@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> lawbkwn@buacca.BITNET (Yaakov HaMizrachi) writes:

>I have heard that Esther Friesner and Ketherine
>ahem, Katherine Kurts are also SCAdians.  Can
>anyone confirm this?

Katherine Kurtz is (or was, I don't know if she's still active).
Other writers I know who are in the SCA are Katherine Blake and
Alis Rasmussen. (Isn't this a FAQ?)

Branwen ferch Emrys
The Mists, the West

--
                                          Karen Williams
                                          branwen@cerebus.ras.amdahl.com
"Don't whine. Warrior women speak in a husky whisper."
  -- Brat Pack #3
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Carl J.M. Alexander)
Subject: Re: Why Call Light Blows?
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 23:54:49 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.183830.33957@acs.ucalgary.ca> parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:
>In article <702921619.F00006@blkcat.UUCP> Charly.the.Bastard@f1014.n147.z1.fidonet.org (Charly the Bastard) writes:
>>re: light vs rhino
>> 
>>....I've watched inch-deep dents appear in 12 guage
>>helms to the refrain 'LIGHT' more times than I can count.
>
>....Charly is a big trog (from the sounds of things), and there
>are many more like him (myself included) who are fully capable
>of doing severe damage [in order to discourage rhino-hiding].
>
>This could become a *severe* problem soon, as our armour gets better
>and our (collective) attitude does not seem to be improving...
>
>Dreadfully, I am, 
>Carolus Mediocris, Montengarde, An Tir
>
>Ps: Please do not assume that I am advocating this behavior. I am not.
>The day it becomes neccessary is the day I hang up my blades and sit in the
>shade with the ladies. But I *predict* it...

I suspect we all hope this state of affairs can be alleviated. 
Personally, I think that making sure that fighters understand a 
bit of basic physics (as well as the fundamentals of chivalry) 
before they are authorized would help.  
 
For instance, if a blow dents a helm, that means a lot of the 
blow's energy was spent on deforming the metal--energy that was 
not transmitted as sudden shock to the wearer's head; thus the 
wearer might percieve the blow as light.  If all fighters knew 
this (again, along with the fundamentals of chivalry), then we 
could see the following dialog fairly often. 
 
Fighter X: [throws blow that leaves half-inch dent in Fighter 
           Y's helm.] 
Fighter Y: "Light!" 
Fighter X: "Hold! [approaches Fighter Y] Milord, there's a brand- 
           new half-inch dent in your helm."
Fighter Y: "Oh.  That's why it felt light."  [Fighter Y falls dead.]
 
I know it's wishful thinking, but so much of the SCA is based in 
wishful thinking, and I do think that the marshallate could, with 
a concerted effort, move things in this direction. 
 
Alexander of Kiev 
 
Carl Alexander
carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu
 

From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Help in Gaelic sought
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 17:45:17

 Fra Tadhg Liath unto "Druid" and all others unto whom these presents shall
 have come giveth greeting:

 D> Speaking of Gealic, does anyone have any suggestions for someone
 D> interestting in learning the language on their own?  I've done only a
 D> minimal amount of research on the subject so far, but alas, I've
 D> turned up nothing.

 When I was at I.U. there was a graduate student who taught an informal
 beginners class in Eigenmann ... can't remember his name, Frank Something
 ...

 There are a number of "Teach Yourself" books available, including the
 standard "Teach Yourself Irish" by Dillon and O Croinin (Teach Yourself
 Books, 1961, ISBN 0 340 05797 1), which has associated records that can be
 purchased separately. It is pocket sized, and takes a fairly basic,
 conversational approach. An even better text is O Siadhail, "Learning Irish
 - An Introductory Self-Tutor" (Yale University Press, 1988, ISBN
 0-300-04224-8) I have seen in bookstores a simplified cassette-based course
 called "Language/30 Irish-Gaeilge" by Educational Services Corp.
 (Washington DC, ISBN 0-910542-31-7) which comes with two audio cassettes
 and what is essentially a "phrase book".

 It is important to either get records/cassettes or find a native speaker,
 because the pronunciation of Irish needs to be heard to be figured out
 (unless you are REALLY at home with the I.P.A.)

        Tadhg

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: dlc@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Dennis Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Transylvanian runic script?
Date: 16 Apr 92 14:44:55 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

christer@sue.komunity.se (Christer Romson) writes:

> >But the early Hungarian runic script persisted until at
> >least the middle of the 19th century in only one area of the world (that I am
> >aware of!), 
> 
> At least during the 17:th century there ws a limited use of runes in some
> backwards parts of scandinavia.
> 
> > they are related not to the
> > northern runes, but to certain western Asiatic runes.  
> 
> But why do you call them runes, then? i supose they're not realted to the
> Germanic runes that the norse devloped from. They must be very simmilar if
> you (and other scholars) use that name for them. Did they devlop from the
> grece alpahbet as seams to be the most widely beleived theory about the
> origin for the germanic runes?

  Tsk, tsk, The Russians have an alphabet and the English have an alphabet, 
but it appears to my uneducated eyes that these two are not related.  Just
because they both have things called letters in them does not mean that the
origins are the same.  The same may hold true of runes.
 
>         Lindorm

Kevin
From: rr3b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rebecca Roolf)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Help in Gaelic sought
Date: 10 Apr 92 21:01:45 GMT
	<1992Apr8.212104.25793@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
	<sdt5XDy00UhWA2V3ke@andrew.cmu.edu>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

As promised, the address for Irish Books and Graphics, a mail-order
place for Irish learning books and tapes.

Irish Books and Graphics
580 Broadway  Room 1103
New York, NY 10012
(212) 274-1923

(Between Prince St. & Houston St. for those in the area.  There is a
small shop, althought it is mainly mailorder.)

Call between 12-5 weekdays, and if possible, talk to the owner, Angela
Carter.  Or, if you don't know what you want, call or write for a
catalog.

Becka
From: jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: classes etc.
Date: 12 Apr 92 17:35:59 GMT
Organization: The Internet


My mundane research came across the following idea (from Eric Temple
Bell's _Men of Mathematics_, I believe):  

If a teacher's students praise his brilliance and the clarity of his
lectures, yet none of them go on to produce first class work of their
own, then the teacher was a failure.

Think about _that_ the next time you're planning a class....

Fujimoto
From: bpmeek@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Brian P. Meek)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: question of contest judging ethics
Date: 11 Apr 92 18:44:11 GMT
Organization: Sybericuse University, Sybericuse, NY

Greetings Gentles,
In a previous message (which I can't excerpt) Ilane De Cameron
Seemed to be of the opinion that it was OK for people to judge their
own work in A&S competitions, although she personally would not do so.
In my experience with such situations, I've seen three solutions:
1) if you've got a piece in, you don't judge.  Period.
2) "     "    "  "   "    ", you judge something else.
3) "     "    "   "  "    ", You judge everything *but* your own, and
			     the score is modified accordingly.
Personally, I usually opt for solution two, if the competition is pressed
for judges.  I'm a silversmith/weapon-maker.  If I've got a knife in the 
competion, I would have no problems judging the Armour or Misc. Metals
category, but would NOT judge the weapons.
At least with the competition's I've been involved with, I had always 
assumed that entering an item was an automatic disqualification for
judging that category.
Just my 2P.
-Alberic, the Samurai Silversmith.
ps- It looks like I'll be heading to Detroit for Grad School,
does anyone know of a contact in that area??
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Persona/Mundania interface
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:51:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.sce6aINN4gg
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <9204121225.aa15538@mc.lcs.mit.edu> lawbkwn@buacca.BITNET (Yaakov HaMizrachi) writes:
>
>(For example, if intriduced to a new
>person of the female gender, I may declaim something
>about her ravishing beauty and cha, accompanied
>by a bow or reverance.  ...

I can just hear it: "Milady, your eyes sparkle like the sun, and
your cha has the most delicate aroma; Lapsang Souchong? I thought so...."

Sorry, couldn't resist....

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: 0003900943@mcimail.COM (Marla Lecin)
Subject: recognition of Peers
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 20:49:00 GMT

Greetings unto the Rialto, from Jessa d'Avondale! 

East Kingdom Coronation was this past Saturday.  I don't know whether
there were few Rialtans in attendance, or if they are all politely waiting
for someone else to announce this, but it looks like I'm first. 

Arval Benecouer, just-past Brigantia Herald, was recognized for his many
years of service to the Society as a herald, and made a Member of the
Order of the Pelican.  There was a wonderful ceremony, in which he was
spoken for by a member of the Chivalry, of the Laurels, and of the Order
of the Rose.  He received a special medallion from the hands of Master
Martin Broeker, and a mantle bearing a Pelican (which I believe actually
belongs to the Order, and is used cermonially). 

Also that day, Duchess Sedalia MacNare was given her Laurel, and Graf
Balfar (just off the throne) joined the Order of Chivalry as a Master at
Arms. 

Vivant! 

--Jessa
From: jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Francis Bacon's Talking Head
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:47:41 GMT
Organization: The Internet


Arval writes:

>Were there really people in her [Queen of England's] household
>described as magicians?  Do you have any idea what they did?

Both of the Bacon's (Francis and Roger) were sometimes accused of
being magicians.  Francis was once accused of having an iron head that
would answer questions for him.  Given the climate of the times
(pretty much all of period, actually) you wouldn't want to call
yourself a "magician", since that might prove hazardous to your
health and continued breathing.

William Gilbert (who discovered that Earth was a magnet) was one of
Queen Elizabeth's court scientists, although I'm not sure what his
exact functions were.  

Most real honest astronomers did bogus astrology on the side, mainly
to make a living.  Two prime examples: Johann Muller (Regiomontanus),
Tycho Brahe, and Johann Kepler.  Other non-astronomers also cast
horoscopes: the mathematician Giralomo Cardano comes to mind.  The
interesting thing was that all three (er, four) cases pretty much knew
astrology was bogus, but did it anyway because it brought in money.

Diviners who didn't use astrology have only claimed to be scientists
in the 20th century.  Honest scientists feel this use of the word is
an abomination and wish that we still burned people like that...

Tio d'abaco
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 10:47:37 -0400 
From: Rebecca Roolf <rr3b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Help in Gaelic

On 10-Apr-92 in Help in Gaelic               
user Lois Domek@isumvs.iastat writes:
>THE language?
>Just so's Irish doesn't get all the students (grin):
>A GRAMMAR OF THE MANX LANGUAGE by J.J. Kneen, Oxford University
>Press: London. 1931.
> 
>Lhiannan y Llysieuydd
>Axed Root, Calontir

I've barely got a grip at all on beginning Irish, but I would be
delighted at some future point to learn Manx.  And Gaidhlig (Scots
Gaelic), and Breton, and Welsh, and Cornish.  :-)  

Bro/nach


_______________________________________________________________________________
Becka Roolf, Research Associate       Bronach na Darach
College of Fine Arts, SFCI            lover of Celtic music, art, and men ;)
ITeN Project (Interactive Anc. Egypt)           
Carnegie Mellon University            E-Phost as Gaeilge, le do thoil!
Pittsburgh, PA                        Ta Gaeilge beag agam, ach me ag foghlaim!
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: "Michael Squires" <mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Weapons Inspections at Wars
Summary: always a pain, usually a mess 
Keywords: weapons inspection
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 11:08:13 -0500

In article <9040263@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> dlc@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Dennis Clark) writes:
>  Every kingdom was required to do their own armor inspections.  Within some
>kingdoms this was further split to allow groups with marshalls to do their
>own as well.  Polearms for everyone were centrally inspected before the war
>started.

At Pennsic there have been two schools:  each kingdom/large group should
inspect itself or the inspections should be centrally administered and
run.  The people who want the first think that the second form is either
too difficult to run or nearly impossible to run properly; the people
who want the second don't trust some of the groups to inspect their
own equipment.

-- 

Mike Squires (mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu)     812 855 3974 (w) 812 333 6564 (h)
mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu          546 N Park Ridge Rd., Bloomington, IN 47408
From: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Polearms, Fjordane, Pasta
Date: 10 Apr 92 22:05:46 GMT
Reply-To: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

Unto Cariadoc does Balderik send his greetings.

I will admit that I have no figures on period polearms,
indeed, I do not even fight polearm.  Allow me to
explain the reasoning behind my statement:

1) I have handled a reproduction poleax, which I found
to be considerably heavier than an SCA polearm.  It did
not appear to be unusually robust in construction, merely
what would be necessary to achieve the destructive power
other posters have attributed to such weapons.  The reason
I would presume any polearm to be significantly heavier
than an SCA polearm is that the SCA polearm consists of a
rattan haft and a foam/ducttape head, while the real
polearm has a hardwood haft and a steel head.  Since the
two hafts should not differ appreciably in mass, any
difference must be due to the heads.  Call me crazy, but
a steel head has got to weigh more than a foam one.
How much more?  Is the difference significant?  Next point ->

2)Based on annecdotal evidence, small differences in mass
would appear to affect a polearms speed/manouverability.
I have often noted SCA polemen comparing polearms and discussing
their relative handling abilities.  If the differences in
mass that are due to haft thickness and quantity of foam are
considered significant by polemen, then how much more significant
must the difference between steel and foam heads be (even if
the objective mass differential is small).

3)Let us assume for the sake of argument that period polearms
were on average the same weight as SCA polearms.  While I have
never wielded an SCA polearm in combat, 
I've been struck by them on 
numerous occasions.  I am well aware of the amount of momentum
a weapon of this mass and balance develops under normal conditions
(ie. no baseball swings).  I submit that if period polearms
were of similar weight and balance, they would NOT slice through
plywood shields as claimed by other posters and the entire point
becomes moot.

In summary, I maintain that for a weapon to slice through shields
as others have claimed, it would have to be considerably heavier
than an SCA polearm.  Tommorrow, I will experiment with a woodsplitting
axe and a broadsword.  I will post their relative effectiveness on
plywood.  Wait a minute,  I already have!!!  I always lay a scrap
piece of 1/2 inch plywood on the ground while chopping wood in
the garage.  All winter, I've used the same piece.  It has been
hit many times and quite hard with an instrument that IS heavier
than an SCA polearm.  It's still in one piece.  Of course, it hasn't
been hit edge on.  I will test this.

Regards,
Balderik


P.S. to those who argue that 180 degree swings with a polearm would
destroy shields, think about how vulnerable you would be while your
polearm was behind you.
From: lawbkwn@buacca.BITNET (Yaakov HaMizrachi)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Persona games work
Date: 8 Apr 92 23:52:59 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Hail and well met, good travellers on
the Rialto, from Yaakov HaMizrachi.

Someone (Tadgh?) writes that persona games
"demonstrably" don't work, and never will.

I fear I must disagree.  I find them quite
deleightful, when done properly.  I suppose
it depends on how you define 'work'.  If you
mean really convince me that this person is
a 15th century frenchman and I'm at an
Italian Rennaissance court, then no.  If
you mean, let me pretend and enjoy the illusion
that this person is a 15th century Frenchmen etc.,
then yes.  It touches the romantic in me.
I play, I enjoy, I experience, I learn.
I am sorry, but you will never be able
to 'demonstrate' to me that the experience never
happened.

Take for example 2 bardic circles: at one, you
have a free-style sort of circle.  Songs, stories,
filk, and "no-shit-there-we-were" stories.
A fun time is had by all.
But it a far different thing to sit at an
'authentic' circle.  A sense of wonder prevades
the air.  Hear stories that are not only
amussing, but may be news of far distant
places, or the workings of wonderous beings.
Even though they are not true (does not
Maimonides say that all such stories are
superstitions, believed only by fools?),
they excite the imagination.  Again, a fun
time is had by all, but a different sort of fun.
I do not say a better or worse fun, but it
is very worthwhile to do both, and not
mix the two.
By your arguments, it is a shame and
foolishness to forbid talented people from
telling the fun stories and songs that
people enjoy.  But not telling generates a
different sort of pleasure; one, in my opinion,
not to be missed.

In service to persona and diversity,
Yaakov
From: dlc@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Dennis Clark)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 14:16:17 GMT
Subject: Re: Why Call Light Blows?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA