HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nrp@csug3.cs.reading.ac.uk ("Welding pronunciations" Neilski)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: use a KILLFILE
Date: 8 Oct 92 09:09:30 GMT
Reply-To: nrp@csug.cs.reading.ac.uk
Organization: University of Reading

eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:

>In article <2AD3529A.A0D6@tct.com> chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
>>Please learn to distinguish between "encouragement" and "coercion."
>>Usenet has lots of the former and almost none of the latter.
>>Newsgroup charters encourage correct article placement.  However,
>>nothing coerces such placement.  Therefore, KILL files are a highly
>>recommended tool of survival on Usenet.

>I chuckle everytime someone mentions charters.
>They are used ONLY for proposing news.groups.
>You can't hold one up and say, You can't post because it's out of charter.
>"Free speech" and "censorship" come back.  It's a circular argument.
>There's a great classic post on this in alt.best.of.internet.

Aha!  So once a newsgroup is created, I can ignore its charter, and post
articles about nude windsurfing in Hawaii to comp.unix.solaris!  :-)/2
(Please don't take this as encouragement, or even coercion, to start
posting articles about nude windsurfing in Hawaii to comp.unix.solaris.)

But seriously folks, if we start ignoring charters the net will become
unusable because it will be impossible to predict or govern where articles
will go.

>And don't let the highly devout Christians hear you take the Lord's name
>in vain.  "Ah!  Cross-posting is a root of all evil!"  --The Allaytoh-miya.

'Scuse me: That should be "The love of cross-posting is the root of all
evil".  Get the picture?

-- neilski
DISCLAIMER: I have never been to Hawaii, nor been nude winsurfing.
However, I do read comp.unix.solaris.

-- 
nrp@csug.cs.reading.ac.uk  \--------------------------------------------------
----------------------------\ 
       I tried vegetables once ... but those were my salad days.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble)
Subject: Re: Create a killfile? AAAAAAAARGH!
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 14:53:50 GMT
Organization: None for me, thanks . . . I'm driving.

nrp@csug.cs.reading.ac.uk writes:

>> With logic like that we would all be driving at 35 mph on the freeways
>> so the mopeds and antique Model A's could keep up with traffic! 
>
> It would be better to bear in mind that there may be mopeds and Model
> A's around which can't keep up with traffic, so we should drive
> remembering that, and making allowances for the fact. 

On the *interstate*?  Sorry.  I'm of the opinion that if you can't keep up
with the traffic, you should get a faster car or stick to the side roads
where you don't get in everyone's way.  Don't expect the rest of the world
to slow down just so you can keep up. 

--
Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)
From: pauls@css.itd.umich.edu (Paul Southworth)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.os.386bsd
Date: 12 Oct 1992 13:11:37 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan ITD Consulting and Support Services
NNTP-Posting-Host: stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu

In article <1bbqrvINN7ld@daisy.ee.und.ac.za> barrett@daisy.ee.und.ac.za (Alan P Barrett) writes:
>In article <id.PJYT.9CI@ferranti.com>,
>peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva) writes:
>> > Besides, putting it under comp.os is inappropriate.  It belongs under
>> > comp.unix with all the other Unixes and Unix lookalikes.
>> Like coherent and linux and minix, right?
>
>Right.  And they all belong under comp.os.unix.  No smiley.
>
>--apb (Alan Barrett)

comp.os.unix?  Now I don't follow you.  You think it should be:

comp.os.unix.mach
comp.os.unix.linux
comp.etc etc etc

<?!>

I thought people were complaining about "breaking the hierarchies".
I guess I am having a hard time using your position to construct a
viable proposal in my head.  Are YOU going to handle the RFDs and votes
to move all those groups so that we can have comp.os.unix.386bsd and
a neat little hierarchy around us?  Or is this just another nihilist
critique?

Smiley?


Paul Southworth                    |     ftp redspread.css.itd.umich.edu
Consulting and Support Services    |        Anonymous Political Archives
Information Technology Division    |                     100% 386BSD 0.1
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor  |             New submissions welcome 

  <Representing myself.  Everything I say is for educational use only.>
From: fuzzy@netcom.com (Fuzzy Fox)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.archives.msdos.announce moderated and comp.archives.msdos.d
Date: 10 Oct 92 18:24:04 GMT
Organization: Foxes 'R' Us - Seven locations to serve you

ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) writes:

>The cam.a newsgroup will be mainly a one way newsgroup, that is from
>the MsDos FTP site moderators (who may, of course, be conveying the
>users' upload announcements).  But it is _NOT_ the intention that
>the users send in discussion material to cam.a.

Why are you assuming that there is something to be discussed about
upload announcements?  The file was uploaded; people may now download
it.  What else is there to say?

>My firm belief is that we should do it in one
>specialized newsgroup (cam.d) rather than to disperse the material
>over a wide area of newsgroups.

The "wide area of newsgroups" you refer to would be comp.os.msdos.apps
and/or comp.os.msdos.misc.  I am already subscribed to these two groups;
do I now need to subscribe to c.a.m.d just to read more of the same type
of traffic?

-- 
#ifdef TRUE         | Fuzzy Fox                  fuzzy@netcom.com
#define  TRUE   0   | a.k.a. David DeSimone      an207@cleveland.freenet.edu
#define  FALSE  1   |   "Verily, thou art indeed a fool."   -- Chuckles the
#endif              |         Jester, moments before his untimely death.
Xref: sparky news.groups:18926 sci.med:18809
From: kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski)
Newsgroups: news.groups,sci.med
Subject: Re: RFD Alternative Medicine
Date: 9 Oct 92 01:26:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Oct9.012604.5794
Organization: The Information Deli - via Netcom / San Jose, California

In <1992Oct8.212036.10029@philmtl.philips.ca> ray@philmtl.philips.ca
(Ray Dunn) writes:

>So sci.med has always been more of a medical Ann Landers column than a
>scientific forum.  Often interesting, certainly, but not a professional forum.

>Perhaps its about time to have _all_ non-professional discussions moved out
>of sci.med to see if a truly sci group would emerge.

Yes!  "sci.med" should be only for scientific discussions about medicine.

>In many ways, the early proposal of creating a top level med hierarchy
>(med.talk, med.research, med.ask-a-doctor, med.nutrition, med.drugs,
>med.alternative med.whatever) might be the best way to achieve this.  But
>how difficult would it be to get everyone on-side in a vote - it's not just
>a new group, its a pretty fundamental change.

I've noted already that creation of "misc.health.alternative" would create
by implication a "misc.health.*" sub-hierarchy, which would be a great
place for general health and health care discussions.  Perhaps this is a
good time to flesh out other possible groups for "misc.health.*".

>Unless something is done to change the fundamental nature of sci.med, all
>that will be achieved is the potential for cross-posted flames.  I can feel
>the heat already.

I'll certainly do whatever I can to prevent inappropriate crossposts.  And
even though it's not a complete fix, some newsreaders can auto-kill based
on crossposting.

-- 
Peter Kaminski
kaminski@netcom.com
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: breinhar@access.digex.com (Robert B. Reinhardt)
Subject: Re: MODEL UN NEWSGROUP
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 01:41:06 GMT

In article <92282.214248F36SI@CUNYVM.BITNET> <F36SI@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>    I am trying to start a Model UN newsgroup to be called
>    talk.politics.model-un.  The Model UN is a simulation of
>    the UN which takes place over a weekend on the grammar,
>    high school and college levels.  This newsgroup would
>    facilitate the exchange of information and ideas between
>    Model UNers around the world.  I have proposed a discussion
>    on the news.groups newsgroup.  If in favor of such a proposal,
>    please post it to news.groups so that this can become a reality.
>    Thanks for your help.
>                           Peace,
>                                 Matt in NYC

I support your idea for a talk.politics.model-un newsgroup and
would like to add my own newsgroup request into the bucket....

talk.politics.world-gov

and/or

talk.politics.world-unity

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                 Robert B. Reinhardt
  /                 /            -----------------------------------------
 /__,_  _  o ____  /_  __.  __   breinhar@access.digex.com
/_)  (_</_<_/ / <_/ /_(_/|_/ (_  -----------------------------------------

Newsgroups: news.groups
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.windows reorganization
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 14:30:52 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.213136.5794@ais.com> bruce@ais.com (Bruce C. Wright) writes:
> In article <id.ON0U.JI8@ferranti.com>, peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva) writes:
> > In article <1992Oct9.224905.5776@ais.com> bruce@ais.com (Bruce C. Wright) writes:
> >> Unfortunately moving things like X to a .gui hierarchy is _also_ going
> >> to cause problems for those new (and clueless) people looking for
> >> information on X.

> > comp.gui.x-windows.*?

> I think as long as you have the string "window" in the group name,
> you are going to have clueless MS-Windows people stumble onto the
> group;  and just because there are so many of them, they could
> easily overwhelm a small group like comp.windows.misc -- in other
> words, naming it comp.gui.misc-windows (for example) won't help either.

Um, that's why we're looking at:

	comp.gui.misc
	comp.gui.news
	etc...
plus, as I suggested in <id.ON0U.JI8@ferranti.com>:
	comp.gui.x-window[s].*

The *misc* group doesn't have windows in the name, and the volume in the
X groups (as the dominant network window system) should be quite sufficient
to deal with folks looking for "*.windows.*" so they can find a driver for
their HyperVGA-32++ card.

If you've got problems with this, fine, but there's no point in bringing
up objections to parts of the proposal that have already been discarded.

> Perhaps I should amplify my statement.  I don't think any amount of
> reorganization will remove the problem of articles posted to the
> wrong group.

Remove, no. Drastically reduce, yes. I don't think anyone expects to get
red of people who deliberately crosspost to every group under the sun. But
you can certainly work to make group names reflect their purpose without
becoming attractive nuisances.
-- 
Peter da Silva                                         `-_-'
Ferranti Intl. Ctls. Corp.                              'U` 
Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012           "Heeft u vandaag al uw wolf geknuffeld?"
+1 713 274 5180                       "Tjener, denne ret er stadig levende."
From: smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD Alternative Medicine
Date: 6 Oct 92 12:09:29 GMT
Reply-To: smith@ctron.com
Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc.

In article <1aortpINNd00@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>, gusar@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Sean A Reith) writes:
>adamsr@netcom.com (Rick Adams) writes:
>>	My original thought was that it should become
>>sci.medicine.alternative until I read some of the biased responses to the
>>original post from those who consider themselves scientifically oriented
>>(funny, I always was taught that an open, inquiring, mind was the mark of a
>>scientist - obviously that isn't always the case).

Scientists do have open, inquiring minds, until something has been proven to
be hokum to their satisfaction, as virtually all your "alternatives" have been.
It is possible to have a mind so open your brain falls out.  To continue to
have an "open, inquiring mind" in the face of the mass of evidence against
this crap is the mark of a gullible fool, not a scientist.

>YES!  I agree!  When science becomes stagant, elitist and unwilling to
>examine new ideas, it should no longer be called science (religion
>springs to mind, but it does not do justice to those whose religion is
>not).

"Science", if one may imply such unity in such a fierce marketplace of ideas,
has examined your medical ideas thoroughly, and it has found no proof that
any of them work.  Testemonials are not proof, any 1st-year medical student
can tell you about the placebo effect.  You need sound scientific evidence,
with documented and repeatable experiments that demonstrate that evidence.
The difference between "medicine" and "alternative medicine" is that "medicine"
has met that high standard, "alternative medicine" has not.

> "I have a cunning Plan" - Baldrick  | sean@his.own.really.fast.machine (RSN)

You wouldn't know a "cunning plan" if painted itself blue and danced naked
on a harpsichord singing "Cunning Plans Are Here Again," if I may be permitted
to mix a quote.

Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com)  No, I don't speak for Cabletron.  Need you ask?
-
How about we all do something reasonable?  I bet that'll confuse 'em!
From: jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Larry Jewell)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.archives.msdos.announce moderated and comp.archives.msdos.d
Date: 12 Oct 92 04:27:42 GMT
Organization: Purdue University

I'm starting to see something strange here, a thread that worries that 
discussion will be posted to the c.a.m.d group.

It's my profound hope that a moderated group always has an umoderated
adjunct, to allow a forum for disagreement with the moderator, if nothing 
else.  The purpose of this process was not to stifle free speech, but to 
provide a smoother flow of information between the sites and the users.

There will be chatter in a .d group, superfluous noise, but there will
be that nugget of productive (in the loosest sense of the word :-)
conversation.  

Larry J

-- 
#L.W. Jewell Moderator at the Veterans Information Site (veteran@cc.purdue.edu)#
#& WWII-L Listowner: "Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange,#
#sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all   #
#phases of life." "Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41  #
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: thornley@milli.cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley)
Subject: Cthulhu status (was Re: use a KILLFILE)
Summary: In his house at R'lyeh, dead.
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 14:20:46 GMT

[Discussion about desirability of creating a Cthulhoid group vs. using
 killfiles deleted.]

Something called alt.fan.cthulhu reached my site a few days ago, and is
generating a reasonable amount of traffic.  I don't know how well it will
keep up this level, but it isn't about something real topical or trendy,
so it might well continue for a long time.

Is it relieving the problems in alt.folklore.ghost-stories, or is it
too early to tell?

DHT
From: hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Create a killfile? AAAAAAAARGH!
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:48:20 GMT
Organization: negligable

In California, mopeds (and bicycles) can share the surface streets with
automobiles ... but they are illegal on the freeways ......

		-Richard Hartman
		hartman@ulogic.COM

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?"
From: pae@teal.csn.org (Phil Earnhardt)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Second RFD: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps & rec.arts.marching.misc
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:13:32 GMT
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.

In article <Oct12.155332.93341@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> gordons@CS.ColoState.EDU (vahl scott gordon) writes:
>Of course marching in drum corps, bands, color guard, etc. is art.  I
>said that.  What I question is this notion that drum corps, bands,
>and color guard comprises all facets of marching.  There are other
>types of marching that are not these, and I'm not sure that all types
>of marching are art. [....]

There have been several postings this past week, and I can't tell if
they are for or against the gropus, as proposed. I suggest we try to
limit our discussion to this issue.

As it stands now, I have recorded no objection to the second RFD. If anyone
does have an issue, now is the time to speak.

--phil
From: hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.windows reorganization
Date: 13 Oct 92 18:17:17 GMT
Organization: negligable

In article <id.GN0U._08@ferranti.com> peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva) writes:
>
>No, it's not. That move, in fact, was an attempt to resolve the ongoing problem
>of Microsoft Windows users posting MS-specific questions to comp.windows.misc.
>The problem long predated the move.
>
>Sigh... how soon people forget.


The key word here is "attempt".  It was an attempt that failed.  It
even seems to have increased the problem!  Let's think the problem over 
again and try again....

Just because we changed it a few months ago in an "attempt" to solve
the problem doesn't mean we're stuck with it when it proves not to do 
the job!

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
It's not the way that you say it	|
when you do those things to me,		|	-Richard Hartman	
it's more the way you really mean it	|	hartman@uLogic.COM
when you tell me what will be.		|
From: ksdavis@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Karleenus Schwartz Davis)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.marching vs rec.arts.marching
Date: 16 Oct 92 03:26:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.Bw72vx.2wF
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1992Oct9.114402.16199@husc3.harvard.edu> fath1@husc10.harvard.edu (Michael Fath) writes:
>
>For bands and corps, they have many similarities but they are distinct.
>In fact, by definition, drumcorps uses bugles only, & has a strong emphasis
>on percussion.  We think the term marching is an appropriate term to use
>as a more general term to group bands and corps and that they are distinct
>enough to be separate groups.

I agree with this.  The strongest argument for separating drumcorps
and non-drumcorps discussion is their distinct dissimilarity.  They
both use the same means of locomotion, but how they make their music
differs fundamentally.  

I say:

rec.*.marching.drumcorps
rec.*.marching.misc

But what about the *?  If you say "music," you lock out military
marching, whereas if you say "arts," anyone who thinks he marches
artistically can speak up.  If you leave out the * altogether, you
create a whole rec.marching.* hierarchy, which will exist alongside
rec.arts.* and rec.music.* -- implying that the new groups don't 
belong in either of those categories.  

My opinion falls on the side of rec.MUSIC.marching.* because the
new groups are more similar to the other rec.music.* groups than to
what is currently in rec.arts.*.

-sz  (my $.01 -- we're in a recession)
From: hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.comics.tv
Date: 7 Oct 92 20:18:42 GMT
Organization: negligable

In article <1992Oct6.052724.12822@news.acns.nwu.edu> jeff@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Jeff Williamson) writes:
:In article <5OCT199222580583@ctrvx1.vanderbilt.edu> dickenjd@ctrvx1.vanderbilt.edu (DICKENJD) writes:
:>	A better idea would be to establish a newsgroup for, not only
:>the comic/tv intersection, but the comic/motion picture one as well. 
:
:Others have suggested this as well; I think the idea works. Any
:suggestions for a revised newsgroup name? It's kind of hard to come
:up with something inclusive...
:

rec.arts.comics.multimedia ??

Or would that be misleading....


		-Richard Hartman
		hartman@ulogic.COM

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Fosters!  It's Australian for beer, mate!"

Newsgroups: news.groups
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.windows reorganization
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:33:40 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.183657.200@indyvax.iupui.edu> harvey@indyvax.iupui.edu writes:
> comp.gui.garnet		The Garnet user interface development environment.
> comp.gui.interviews	The InterViews object-oriented windowing system.

I have received email indicating that both of these should go under "x", so:

	comp.gui.x.garnet
	comp.gui.x.interviews

> comp.gui.misc		Various issues about windowing systems.
> comp.gui.news		Sun Microsystems' NeWS window system.
> comp.gui.open-look	Discussion about the Open Look GUI.
> comp.gui.x.announce	X Consortium announcements. (Moderated)
> comp.gui.x.apps		Getting and using, not programming, applications for X.
> comp.gui.x.intrinsics	Discussion of the X toolkit.
> comp.gui.x.misc		Discussion about the X Window System.
> comp.gui.x.motif	The Motif GUI for the X Window System.
> comp.gui.x.pex		The PHIGS extension of the X Window System.

Some other groups that might be useful:

	comp.gui.dps		Display Postscript
	comp.gui.networks	Relations between window systems and networks
-- 
Peter da Silva                                         `-_-'
Ferranti Intl. Ctls. Corp.                              'U` 
Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012           "Heeft u vandaag al uw wolf geknuffeld?"
+1 713 274 5180                       "Tjener, denne ret er stadig levende."
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.windows reorganization
Date: 16 Oct 1992 10:28:10 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1992Oct15.151906.27679@rdg.dec.com> uw@decum.enet.dec.com writes:
>The X Consortium requests that the following names be used when
>referring to this software:

[list deleted]

>So, why not simply moving the "comp.windows..." tree to	"comp.X.[a-z]*..."?
>Or is X12 just around the corner ?	;^))	Then to "comp.X11.[a-z]*..."

1) Upper case newsgroup names are a serious loss on systems other than Unix
with case-sensitive file names.

2) It's more important to have a name recognizable to both those in the know
about a group's subject and tthose *not* in the know; in this light, I'd say
use "x-windows", and pedantry be damned.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
    Vote for a REAL change on 3 November: Throw out the check-bouncing,
  tax-and-spend Democrat Congress! (obviously, not an opinion of UTHSCH)
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD Alternative Medicine
Date: 7 Oct 92 14:28:30 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <1992Oct4.181039.3224@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>In article <16764@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:
>>
>>This clearly is a subject of interest to readers.  It could
>>include accupuncture, herbalism, homeopathy, megadose vitamin
>>therapies, chiropractic, holistic medicine, visualization,
>>and many other alternative methods that have yet to receive
>>acceptance by the mainstream scientific community.
>
>Yes, for the same reasons that keep "astrology" still waiting.

Well, what's wrong with letting people have a group to discuss
astrology?  Would it be better to have them all yammering in
the sci.astronomy group, where people want to discuss astronomy?
I think the situation is quite parallel to what we have in sci.med.




-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: news.groups