HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Help stop the KKK
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 20:02:19 GMT
Reply-To: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Apr9.231614.17905@ucunix.san.uc.edu>  
schectr@ucunix.san.uc.edu (ROBB SCHECTER) writes:
>  
**------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
-**
> **                                                                          
**
> **                    THE  KKK  ARE  COMING  TO CINCINNATI                  
**
[..]
> **   - We hope to mass enough people to drown out any speeches, and def-    
**
> **         eat any recruiting efforts the Klan will make.                   
**


Sigh... things like this always make me worry about G/L approaches to  
political change. We all know that the KKK is not a very nice  
organization, that in fact they quite nicely fit the definition of "evil",  
that their ideas are reprehensible and anti-human, etc. Normally, I would  
not have very much trouble with the idea of drowning out their speech,  
except....

We must never forget that, only a few years ago, gays and lesbians were as  
much of an "absolute evil" as the KKK. No, I wasn't around at the time,  
but the literature of the 40's and 50's makes it all pretty clear.

There were differences, to be sure... differences that moved gay/lesbian  
issues into the realm of respectablity, and ones that drove racist groups  
to the fringe. I like to think that the difference is that we are right  
and they are wrong. Indeed, I am convinced of it.

Yet to drown a group out by shouting, to refuse to listen to anyone, even  
if the message is the same... am I the only one that feels uncomfortable  
about this? Am I the only one that sees the same strategies used in the  
past against us?

Uh oh. I feel a long posting coming on. Better move it to the next  
article.

-Anthony
From: jglover@ducvax.auburn.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay Dinosaurs!!
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:06:55 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.021115.16802@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, dcf@po.CWRU.Edu (Donald C. Ferencz Jr) writes:
> 
> 	ABC, the network that brought you the infamous "thirtysomething"
> episode with pleasantly real gay characters, recently followed "Star
> Trek: The Next Generation" with a neat little allegory to homosexuality
> in the "sitcom" "Dinosaurs."
> 
> 	A little background: "Dinosaurs", despite it's ratings, is a
> clever series with human-size Jim Henson-inspired Dinosaur muppets.

The show is filled to the brim with satire of anything and everything
from America's Funniest Videos (Pangea's Funniest Videos) to CNN ( DNN ).
Liberals should love this show.
 
> 	In a recent episode, Robbie (the teenage son) is embarrassed to
> admit that, unlike the rest of his family -- who are carnivores -- he
> might be -- GASP! -- an *herbivore*!  Earl (the father) laments that he
> should have taken him hunting more.  The show is replete with hilarious
> analogies...Robbie, in a dejected mood, finds himself hanging out with
> fellow herbivores in a little dive called "The Salad Bar"!  (I was on
> the floor with laughter.)

THis episode is great and incredibly funny.  As someone else pointed out
to me, it may, unfortunately, be too subtle for most straight people.
My straight roommate, when the episode originally aired, didn't quite
catch all the parrallels until we clued him in.

> and the ending was much more to my liking.  Unfortunately, "Dinosaurs"
> was recently moved to Friday nights, which is something like last rites
> for a sitcom.

Actually, someone on alt.tv.dinosaurs (yes, it really exists)  with a
connection to the show says ABC has bought 20 more episodes and they
start filming again in a few weeks.

 - jay g.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: Go-Go Bears (Was: Re: 1992 CON: The Portland Proposal)
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1992 01:17:44 GMT

francis@ircam.fr (Joseph Francis) wrote: 
->Paris, Saturdays, 5am, "The Manhattan" rue des Anglais.
->
->Shimmy shimmy shake shimmy shake.

there weren't any go-go bears when we were there, le jojo!  were you
hiding them?

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
From: IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Lip synching and stuff
Date: 17 Apr 92 17:03:24 GMT
 <1992Apr16.074802.11747@athena.mit.edu>
Organization: University of Maine System

lip synching in public?  i am SHAMELESS!  any song i know
induces lip-synching, especially ones by women's music people,
and ANYTHING by melissa etheridge (who is another to add to the
perfect woman list.  anyone seen her "Ain't It Heavy" video?
*moan*  *gasp*  *shiver*  and she's even a dyke...)

                                       -ailsa
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve Russell)
Subject: Re: Evolutionary reason for homo/bisexuality?
Summary: This is Sherri, not Steve
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 21:30:14 GMT

>In article <xrpjqmj.rich@netcom.com> rich@netcom.com (Richard Poppen) writes:
>>Recently I've found myself speculating on a question that,
>>surprisingly, I haven't seen discussed here:  What is the evolutionary
>>reason for homo- and bisexuality?
>>
>>I am not asking "What causes homosexuality in an individual?" 
>>I'm asking about the tendency or capacity for homosexuality in groups
>>
Well, I don't have much faith in any group selection theories, so I don't
really go for your first explanation.  I consider the group part of the
environment basically.

I have two favorite explanations:

*There is no selection.  In many populations, heterosexuality would be
selected for because you only get a few chances to mate with fertile females
in your lifetime, so your genes will be a lot more likely to get passed on
if you only go for females during the mating season.  If you're a gene in a 
fruit-fly, you'd be better off in a male if you have the 'fuck anything that
moves' further up the strand (i.e. in this case there is a short mating period
with many mating opportunities--don't waste your time trying to tell which
is which).  Now, in humans, we have a lot of sex for the number of times
we procreate, so someone could have 3 or 4 heterosexual encounters in a lifetime
filled to the brim with gay sex, and her/his genes would be none the worse for
it.  This seems most likely to me in that sexual preference just seems to
spread naturally accross the scale.  It doesn't seem like any preference is
likely to be selected for.

Well, I don't have time for the second one, but it's in _The Selfish Gene_
by Richard Dawkins, basically that a gene 'for' something else became a
gene 'for' homosexuality in a new biochemical environment.

Sort of.

Sherri


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: Heinlein and sexism (Was Asimov and sexism)
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 15:25:54 GMT

tdober@llnl.gov writes:

>In article <92106.193952IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU
>(Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>> 
>> well, we've had a whole lot of posts abotu male lovers in SF.
>> so who writes abotu lesbians?  are there any outside of the
>> lesbian presses and Gael Baudino?  (and the bi woman in Silver-
>> glass)
>> 
>> not really interested in reading about men these days.  been
>> doing it all my life and want something different.
>> 
>>                                       -ailsa

>Well, let me see...(of course, I'm at work, away from my books, so this
>is just what I can think of off the top of my head)

>_Thendara House_ by Marion Zimmer Bradley. Right spang in the middle
>                 of the Darkover series. It deals with a Terran woman
>                 who goes to live in Darkovan society (actually, a
>                 small subset of Darkovan society, but who wants to
>                 quibble?) and a Darkovan woman who goes to live in
>                 the Terran quarter. Talk about major culture shock...

>_The Ruins of Isis_ also by Bradley. Non-Darkover sf about a planet
>                    run by women (men are there, but occupy a
>                    subordinate role). I found this book profoundly
>                    annoying in some ways. Of course, I have to make
>                    allowances for how long ago it was written, but
>                    still...

>_Arrows of the Queen_ by Mercedes Lackey. Two fairly important female
>                      characters are in a committed relationship with
>                      each other.

>_Titan_  \
>_Wizard_  } (the Gaea trilogy) by John Varley. The female main character
>_Demon_  /  is in a relationship with another woman.

>_The Northern Girl_ by Elizabeth A. Lynn. Someone else just mentioned this
>                    one. Third book in the Chronicles of Tornor.

>I'm sure I'll think of a dozen more as soon as I go home. Oh well, it's
>late, I'm outta here. (I'll follow up later if I do come up with more
>titles.)

>TDO

joanna russ....(someone *has* mentioned joanna russ in the parts of this
thread that I haven't followed, right?).

josh
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: hsu@sp24.csrd.uiuc.edu (William Tsun-Yuk Hsu)
Subject: Re: Depressing Scumpits? Re: Regarding the NY/NJ CON Proposal
Organization: UIUC Center for Supercomputing Research and Development
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 00:21:18 GMT

adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

>Shall I take offense?  No, although how anyone could stand to live for
>more than 5 minutes surrounded by Chicaaago aaacents is beyond me.

Hey, lots of people in Chicago don't speak with Chicaaago aaacents!
Chicago is the city that most hip midwest queers move to, before
they move out to San Francisco ;-)

Bill
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Subject: Re: Exercise (Was Re: anyone know anything about laundry?)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 23:24:41 GMT

In article <j7k6aq8@zola.esd.sgi.com> portuesi@tweezers.esd.sgi.com (Michael Portuesi) writes:

>So...when should I stop by?

Any time, big boy... The husband is out of town til thursday, and the dungeon
is vacant!


FWA
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bn566@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ward Chanley)
Subject: Re: Heterosexual Exploitation of Homosexuality?
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 03:03:35 GMT


Madonna and unmistakable lesbians:

Madonna's done a good job of putting
undeniably Queer people in visible,
positive places, in her vidoes,
movies, press conferences, media happen-
ings, etc.  Much of any Queer look
depends on stereotyping, but FACE IT
DARLINGS: Humans are group animals,
and straight men, on the whole look
BORING...not all instances of stereo-
typing are negative, unless you're
an assimlationist and believe that
looking queer is only slightly less a sin than
sodomy...

Visible undeniable lesbians would look 
stereotyped, but these would be women
who MEBRACE and DEFINE those stereotypes, not 
some straight person's idiot interpretation
of what the stereotype is or what function it serves.
This will serve to make "straight acting an
appearing" homos of both genders most uncomfortable
but the last time I checked I dated 
Queer men, not het-identified Gay men, so
I could really care less if they don't approve.

-- 
"Imagine a war in which everyone won..."
Pet Shop Boys, "DJ Culture"
-----------------------------------------
Ward Chanley - bn566@cleveland.freenet.edu
From: junikka@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Jari Junikka)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Dancing
Date: 17 Apr 92 18:47:24 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin Dept. of Mathematics

jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) writes:

>Now for extra credit, consider the proposition:
>	Lesbians do not exist.
>Give proof or counterexample.

I've heard rumors that Two nice girls are actually
not two, not nice and not girls. In fact, they're
supposed to be dykes. Do I get full credit now,
or do I have to produce a living example in person
or a signed document by a woman saying she's a lesbian?

jari
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@vccsouth18.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: NYQ is no more!
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 05:04:10 GMT

junikka@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Jari Junikka) writes:

>Anyone know how much a subscription to NYQ, I mean QW, is?
>Address?
From the file /pub/QRD/qrd/info/CONTACTS/nyq on nifty.andrew.cmu.edu


NYQ Publishing, Inc.
632 Broadway, 7th Floor
New York, NY 10012
vox: 212-979-9777
fax: 212-979-0324


Checks are to NYQ Publishing, $49.95 for a year (before 3/31/92). $34.95 for
6 months.

NYQ is distributed by RPM Periodicals, Inc 203-938-8865.

That's what the QRD is *there* for, dear.

>jari
-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735 
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
"No-one can make you feel inferior without your consent."--Eleanor Roosevelt.
   ***MARCH ON WASHINGTON FOR LESBIAN/GAY/BISEXUAL RIGHTS APRIL 25 1993***
From: librdb@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Roy D. Berridge)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Opera Queens
Date: 9 Apr 92 12:04:47 GMT
Organization: Georgia State University


 I am sorry, but Hildegard Behrens owns the part.  There will   		 be no discussion.  Thank you.							

 Roy.
From: pgr@crhc.uiuc.edu (Paul Ryan)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: John Haugh's Current Incarnation
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:51:55 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
NNTP-Posting-Host: debussy.crhc.uiuc.edu

Jess Anderson writes:
>Computing seems to gather *such* strange people together.
>Not any of *us* of course, but you know what I mean.

I object!

This slanderous attempt to imply that I am normal is a dirty, underhanded
attempt at character assasination, and I will *not* stand still for it!

Paul ... who has seen normal, and wasn't impressed
-- 
Paul Ryan                  (pgr@crhc.uiuc.edu)     1101 W. Springfield Ave.
Center for Reliable High-Performance Computing     Urbana, IL 61801
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign         (217) 244-7179
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ca.politics
From: hayes@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu (Patrick Hayes)
Subject: Re: Alan (not Charles) Turing's Untimely Death
Originator: hayes@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu
Organization: Ohio State Computer Science
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 10:37:44 GMT


Oh, and, incidently, his name was Alan, not Charles.

---PCH
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Opera Queens (Re: PDX con & bickering)
Date: 8 Apr 1992 13:51:11 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <28742@brahms.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
| In article <7369@brchh104.bnr.ca> gal@bnr.ca writes:
|
| [Ljuba Welitsch as Salome:]
|
| >I am sorry, but the Met historic broadcast of her is pitiful.
...
| The sad thing is that there WAS an earlier broadcast they could have
| used, that caught her in prime condition.  The sound is much poorer, but
| what is that against the fact that the later Welitsch is not the real
| thing at all?  I know a number of knowledgeable NY operagoers who got
| very angry over the Met reissuing the "wrong" Salome broadcast.  Listen
| instead to her earlier studio recordings.

Oh, I see that we were arguing about two different recordings.  I have
never heard the live recording issued by the Met Guild.  The faaaabulous
recording I was talking about is the one Mr. Conrad mentions here.  It
used to be available on BJR and had a blue cover.  The sound isn't all
that bad (if you want *bad* sound, listen to the Mapleson cylinders),
and the performance is magnificent.  Welitsch is sexy and creepy and
no one else comes close.

Arne
From: randyc@autodesk.com (Randy Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Texaco running from "Cranes"?
Date: 8 Apr 92 01:04:15 GMT
Organization: Autodesk, Inc., Sausalito, CA


In article <1992Apr7.024941.12053@cs.ubc.ca> manis@cs.ubc.ca (Vincent Manis)
writes:
>Anyone who feels that corporate support of the arts is a good thing
>should stop to consider not that corporations are afraid of LGBs, but,
>much more broadly, a corporation wants to make you feel good. Truly
>great art generally makes you uncomfortable, but rarely makes you feel
>good.

	An excellent point, and well put (as usual).

	Also one that's often overlooked by activists, who
	sometimes -- too often? -- take our corporate culture
	for granted.

	On the other hand, I have to say that *some* companies
	seem to be successful at keeping their public funding
	autonomous and relatively impartial.

	However, private censorship is so successful down here in
	the States, that the government (usually) doesn't have to
	get into the business, and can blithely pretend that we
	don't have any (at least, outside the NEA).  Feh.

	Cheers, -R


--
There is a sad gaiety in our love, and though we have more wit
than Sunday lovers by the water's edge, our wit attracts misfortune.
							-- Genet
Randy Clark			{}!autodesk.com!randyc
From: gsmith@concour.cs.concordia.ca (Gene Ward Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: silliness on a thursday
Date: 11 Apr 92 02:39:42 GMT
Organization: Centre Interuniversitaire en Calcul Mathematique Algebrique

In article <1992Apr9.235237.20906@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve
Dyer) writes:

>I thought Arthur Ashe's press conference was the height of classiness
>and dignity.  Is there a reason not to accept his statement that he got
>it from a transfusion?   He did have bypass surgery twice.
>Is AA on some list I'm unaware of that we shouldn't take him
>at his word?

I don't know how good a reason this is, but I thought there were
rumors that he was bi.


--
     Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/CICMA/Concordia University 
                  gsmith@concour.cs.concordia.ca
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyarman@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Donald L Yarman [Don])
Subject: Re: Heterosexual Exploitation of Homosexuality?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 19:06:30 GMT

This discussion seems to have fragmented into a number of
areas that, while interesting (auto-fellatio fascinates me;
I used to fantasize about it during my high school Algebra II
class; probably why I got a D) they don't seem to be answering
Loren's question.  Though Madonna was the example of straight (?)
woman who is sexually excited by gay male sex, the question
really wasn't about her in particular, was it?

Jake (like I know any of you well enough to presume to use
first names) came close to articulating what I was thinking
when he wrote:

     however, the videos [with scantily clad models looking
     stupid] tend to denigrate and expoit women on the whole,
     making them objects for masculinity.

"Objects for masculinity" reminds us that we're talking about
objectification and power.  Women--as scenery in music videos, or
in straight male porn--are the object of the male gaze.

Let's shift examples for a moment.  Take stripping.  I think we
know who's REALLY in charge when a woman is publically taking
off her clothes in front of men.  In some circumstances she
may be manipulating them in a minor, titilating sort of way,
but the men hold the power.  The men control the social
institutions that have created the very circumstances in which
a woman would be a stripper.

But when a man is publically taking off his clothes in front
of women, you don't have a corresponding reversal of power
relationships.  On a local level, sure, you have man as object
of female gaze (if the concept of gaze can even be applied
to women--sorry, I haven't read enough theory.)  But as soon
as you step outside the performance circle, it's the same
old shit.

While gay men are marginalized and disempowered in a number
of insidious and violent ways, on another level it's impossible
to ignore the fact that they are men.  I don't wish to try
to articulate a hierarchy here that will account for all the
variables of race, class, gender, sexual/affectional orientation,
etc.  Still, I think there are arenas of exploitation, and
that space where straight women are exploiting gay men is
very small.

Or not.  (Please don't hurt me.)

Ever,

Don
-- 
Don Yarman            _______/|/|   dyarman@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
                        (_)  \|\|   Yarman.1@osu.ed
"The voice of my grandmother said to me, the earth is our mother.  What
befalls the earth befalls all the sons and daughters of the earth."
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: The name claim to fame game
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 08:39:06 GMT


In article <michaelh.703493921@Xenon.Stanford.EDU>
michaelh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Mike Hennahane) writes:

>ok, so maybe you win the unpronounceable award, but how many people
>out there know that they are the only ones with their name? 
>(i think it comes
>from hennigan mixed up with the hanrahan or calahan. something about a
>bunch of -hans or something...)

You have to watch out when you're with Mike; he's all -hans!

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Subject: concert review
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 15:33:43 GMT



Diamanda Galas
Palace of Fine Arts, San Francisco
Performance title: Judgement Day




Wow.  Diamanda just keeps getting better.  In last night's performance
she did a mixture of originals, gospel and blues.  Her performance was
moving and quite powerful.  Her performance of Screaming Jay Hawkins'
_I put a spell on you_ was amazing.


For those of you who are not aware, Diamanda Galas is an avant-garde
performer, who is best described as a blues/gospel/opera singer (trained
to be an opera singer) who sounds something between all of the previous
styles, and Linda Blair speaking in tongues in the Exorcist.  Her focus,
thematically, is the AIDS crisis.  She takes the old spirituals and blues
songs and changes the meaning by merely saying "this is about AIDS".
Suddenly, the old material takes on new meaning.


The performance last evening was very difficult to describe.  My recommendation
is that if you get the opportunity to see Diamanda perform, and you have 
heard of her at all, you should go.


I recommend her very highly, but not for the uninitiated.



Jeff
-FWA
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael Thomas)
Subject: Re: domestic partners in l.a.
Reply-To: mike@gordian.com (Michael Thomas)
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 01:38:26 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.002100.23643@morrow.stanford.edu>, CT.A81@forsythe.stanford.edu (LFRibeiro) writes:
|> anybody out there know about domestic partner laws? is anywhere in
|> the l.a. area really advanced and in the books? reply to -
|> comly@acropolis.stanford.edu. thanks, lfr

   Courtesy of the LA times yesterday, the Laguna Beach City council
unanimously passed a Domestic Partners law. For $50 you even get registered
as a "domestic partnership". 
   Now if I can only get somebody to buy my condo so I can move... I wonder
if it is appropriate to have a batchelor party before Todd and I are 
domestic-partnershiped, hmmm.
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss