HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Small crash / Chrokee Question
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:43:03 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <1992Aug19.194501.3112@eng.umd.edu>, rex@eng.umd.edu (Rex Root) writes:
> In article <66392@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt9989a@prism.gatech.EDU (John Martin Chapman) writes:
>>Today in Gwinett County, Georgia, there was a small plane crash involving a
>>Cherokee 160.  1 person was killed and 4 were injured.  
> You may want to double check your source of info ... it may be a typo. The 
> Piper Warrior, a cheroke 160, only has seating for 4 ... unless one were
> to stick 3 children in the rear seats, But then the center child would
> be without a seat belt.

No, John has his information correct. There were 5 persons aboard that 
Cherokee. And the information at hand suggests they were all adults, not
children.

Go figure.

-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
Principal Software Engineer        ! Packet Radio: AA4LR @ W4QO
Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc. ! UUCP: uunet!hayes!bcoleman
POB 105203 Atlanta, GA 30348 USA   ! Internet: bcoleman%hayes@uunet.uu.net
Disclaimer: "My employer doesn't pay me to have opinions."
Quote: "The same light shines on vineyards that makes deserts." -Steve Hackett.

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: erik@tera.com (Erik Hedberg)
Subject: Chart subscriptions / prices
Organization: Tera Computer Company, Seattle, WA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:12:46 GMT

Just before flying a couple of weeks ago, I noticed my charts were out
date.  Recalling that chart subscriptions are available, I did a small
price survey:

Optima Publications:  (I used to buy their Guide to California Airports)
	Sectionals $13.30/yr, TAC $7.50/yr
	(415)941-4333

AOPA:	Sectionals currently $11.30/yr, will be $13.00/yr in October
	(800)872-2672 (800-USA-AOPA), enter "5" at the beep for chart sales

My FBO:	Single sectionals $5.50+tax = $5.95 or $11.90 per year

NOS:	Sectionals $22.00 for 2 years, TACs $12.00 for 2 years
	Orders: (301)436-6993 (VISA/MC).  Problems (800)638-8972.

I used to subscribe from Optima, then I moved.  I'm giving NOS a try.

Cheers,
Erik
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: ronnie@media.mit.edu (Ronnie Schnell)
Subject: Re: Clearing customs
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 02:43:56 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.212103.22697@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> ron@turing.toronto.edu (Ron Wessels) writes:
>In article <ty4mgdq@quantum.on.ca> aboyd@quantum.on.ca (Andrew Boyd) writes:
>>Worse, you're not supposed to leave the a/c (even to pee) until the 
>>US customs guy has said it's OK to.  I wonder if he made it to oshkosh?
>
>True.  Although I'm not sure about staying in the aircraft, according

The way it was several years ago, if you step out of the aircraft before
customs gives the OK, you are immediately fined $1500 per passenger.  This
was coming from Canada to the US.  However, when coming from the Bahamas 
to the US, it doesn't seem to apply.  The first time I made the trip, I
sat in the plane for 10 minutes before the customs guy at West
Balm Beach came out, looking at me like I was crazy.

#Ron
(ronnie@eddie.mit.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: pdb1@ra.msstate.edu (Philip D Bridges)
Subject: Re: CAS vs. IAS (was: Stupid Pilot Trick Awards)
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:53:00 GMT

wd@cs.tu-berlin.de (Wolfgang Diestelkamp) writes:

>> The Pitot tube detects Total Pressure, Ptot, through the front of the tube,

>Just curious: is this actually why it's called Pitot (Ptot) tube ?
 It's named after Henri Pitot, a French scientist who invented this
device to measure the flow velocity of the Seine River in 1732.
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
|      Philip Bridges                 |  "Strive for design simplicity:  |
|      Dept. of Aerospace Eng.        |   you never have to fix anything |
|      Miss. State University         |   you leave out."                |
|      (601) 325-3623                 |                                  |
|      pdb1@ra.msstate.edu            |           Bill Lear (1903-1978)  |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jmp@trsvax.tandy.com
Date: 20 Aug 92 09:50 CDT
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Principle of VOR
Message-ID: <91300005@trsvax>
Nf-ID: #R:rai.juice.or.jp:543:trsvax:91300005:000:771
Nf-From: trsvax.tandy.com!jmp    Aug 20 09:50:00 1992


>     What is the principle of VOR system ?   I've ever read that the difference
> between phases of two waves(a wave for reference and a wave whose phase is 
> different according to the direction ?) specifies the angle(or radial), but 
> only one frequency is assigned to a VOR.   I think I should misunderstand, 
> but cannot find further description.

The frequency assigned to the VOR is the carrier frequency.  The reference
signal is a 30 Hz signal that frequency modulates (FM) a 9960 Hz sub-
carrier.  The bearing signal is a 30 Hz signal (with a phase difference
equal to the bearing) that amplitude modulates (AM) the carrier.  The
receiver detects the two signals, resolves the phase difference, and
displays the bearing.

John Prickett
jmp@trsvax.tandy.com
From: langford@gems.vcu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: flying in Arizona?
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:39:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: gems.1992Aug12.173925.62
Organization: Medical College of Virginia

I have a newly minted private pilot certificate, and I'm also scheduled to
be vacationing in Arizona and New Mexico for the first two weeks of September.
My CFI suggested that I should rent a plane while I'm out there, and do
some sighseeing by air.  That sounds like a great idea, but I have no idea
how practical it is.  My concerns are:
   1)  Mountains.  What little experience I have (very little) is with the
       small ones here in Virginia.  I expect there's a big difference 
       where the average altitude is 5000 feet or more.  I wouldn't mind
       avoiding the worse spots, though, if they aren't too numerous.
   2)  Plane types.  I am checked out in Cessna 152s and 172s; I suspect
       the latter is better for those density altitudes.  Will a 172 be
       good enough?  Figure me and one passenger, minor baggage.
   3)  Renting.  My certificate is new.  Really new.  Issued 7/28/92.  Is
       any decent FBO likely to rent me a plane?  I don't mind a checkout,
       in fact I think it would be wise, but I don't want to take 5 hours
       of lessons, either.

Any suggestions, advice, or pointers would be welcome.  Thanks!

-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| From the electronic desk of Bob Langford          Health Sciences Computing |
| 804-786-9843   (fax: 804-786-9807)         Virginia Commonwealth University |
| e-mail:  langford@gems.vcu.edu     [or]     langford@vcuvax  (for BITNET)   |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris)
Subject: Circle-to-land: which direction?
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 19:58:54 GMT

A bit of radio traffic at a nearby field over this past weekend started
a debate over terminology which I don't see an answer in the AIM.  Consider
this situation:

   A controlled field has parallel runways 16/34 (-L and -R).  There is
   only one ILS, and it's on 16L.  The weather is crummy, and the wind
   (of course) is favoring runway 34.  Aircraft landing at this airport
   are cleared for ILS 16L circle to land on 34 R.

   The problem: during the approach the tower asks the pilot which
   way he will circle; the response is "circle right, east of the
   airport" (i.e., following a normal right-hand traffic pattern for
   runway 34 R).  The tower sees this as inconsistent and the result is
   additional transmissions during the approach.  

The pilot is giving the direction *in which he will circle* (i.e., making
right-hand turns); the tower is expecting the direction *relative to the
ILS centerline* to which the pilot will turn to initiate the circling
maneuver (i.e., to the left to the ILS centerline).

In this case the pilot gave sufficient information to ensure that the 
tower could recognize the conflict, and it was resolved before any
problems developed.  The airplane broke out well above minima and made
a normal right-hand traffic pattern to 34R.

In my flying I've made very few opposite-direction circle-to-land
approaches to controlled fields, and haven't seen this question raised.
The AIM Pilot/Controller Glossary addresses the issue only to the extent
that when the controller clears a pilot for a particular circling path
it should be given in compass direction from the airport (e.g., "circle
northeast of the airport").

What sayeth the net: should the pilot's approach be described as
"circle left" (of the centerline) or "circle right" (making right
turns)?  Or should left/right be explicitly excluded from the
description because of the ambiguity?

Joe Morris / MITRE
From: ericth@i88.isc.com (Eric Thiele)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Calling Karen Ward
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:29:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: i88.1992Aug19.192927.26701
Distribution: usa
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL

If you aren't Karen Ward of Oregon Graduate Institute, hit "n" now...

Karen, please reply - I edited out your return address.  Thanx
From: parkins@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (David Parkins)
Subject: Re: Cellular phones again!  Argh!!
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 18:13:04 GMT

Cellular phones are only legal in an aiplane while it is on the ground!
Thats the way it is. May change if the celular system goes satelite
in which case they will know how to handle being picked up by multiple cells.
This does not mean that they don't work in planes, only that they work only 
to well. Some people have been using them in planes for quite some time
but let the user beware "your ass is grass if caught", if their were 
complaints to the FCC something would probably be done (i.e. the phone
company complaining about billing problems as a result) or you could get 
multiple billings for the same call (you used multiple cells).


this has been hashed over repeatedly here, isn't there an FAQ for this?

dave parkins
parkins@femur.tn.cornell.edu
From: rah@public.BTR.COM (Richard A Hyde  rah@btr.com)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: So what' so great about Nut Tree?
Date: 14 Aug 92 01:14:54 GMT
Organization: BTR Public Access UNIX, MtnView CA. Contact: Customer Service cs@BTR.COM

In article <122140224@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> myshatyn@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Mike Myshatyn) writes:
|> So what's so great  about Nut Tree (sic the airport)?
|
|Thanks to all those that responded.  I get the idea.
|
I guess I'll weigh in on the other side here  :-)                   
                                                                           
1)  Expense.  Yes, Nut Tree is a bit more expensive than their food might
    warrant... but how much did it cost you to *fly* there??  I often take
    friends there after a Bay Tour.  They love the train from the airport 
    (free to flyers) and the gift shop.

2)  Food.  Hey, I happen to *love* their "steakettes".  I'm a carnivore
   (no flames, please) and I eat steak as a big part of my diet.  I can
   assure you that Nut Tree's food cannot be considered to an "up-scale
   Lennies, I mean Dennys.  (I happen to like Harris Ranch as well.).
   The best steaks used to be at Jonseys (at Napa Co.), but I haven't
   been there recently.  I'm looking forward to the Cattlemans opening
   at Livermore, but I'm suspicious of chains).

3) Gift Shop/Toy Shop.  Yes, the prices are high.  I don't think I've
   ever actually *bought* anything there, but it's a wonderful place
   to window shop.

4) Before Halloween, they have a great Scarecrow exhibition.  Lot's of
   creative people make some weird and wonderful scarecrows for the
   competition.

5) Pilots Shop.  Best collection of books, art, and video anywhere.

Stop by for a visit and make up your own mind  :-)

Rick


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|   Richard Hyde  |  RaH@btr.com  |    This space intentionally left blank   |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX)
Subject: Re: Advice on stopover at JFK, and scanner question.
Organization: Omen Technology INC, Portland Rain Forest
Distribution: rec
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 05:34:12 GMT

>>Most security people seem to be both arrogant and unsophisticated.
>>At various times I've been stopped for carrying a baseball bat (I
>>was about 9 at the time), a dive computer, a SCUBA regulator, and
>>a blood pressure cuff (I'm an EMT-A). Anything they don't understand
>>will have them up in arms, especially if it's electronic.

Perhaps you match some "profile"?  I've taken shortwave
portables and/or cell phones on dozens of flights over the years
and recall only two "incidents".

Was many years ago when my hair was longer, and my 35 SLR caused some
suspicion.  There was a standoff because I didn't want to waste the film
that was in the camera and felt like arguing the point.  I don't remember
the outcome but I did make the flight.

A few years ago my carry-on was courteously but thoroughly searched by
uniformed Canadian security at Vacnouver without incident.

There might have a time or two when one item or another attracted
attention but no big deal.  Most of the time I just set my wallet and keys
on top of the baggage and let the operator zap away.

Sometimes my belt buckle sets the doorway off.  On a good day a good
looking bird will frisk me, and I get to do the Benny Hill routine.

If I were boarding a flight overseas or to a hot spot I should expect
the security to be tighter.  Your mileage may vary.

-- 
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX          ...!tektronix!reed!omen!caf 
Author of YMODEM, ZMODEM, Professional-YAM, ZCOMM, and DSZ
  Omen Technology Inc    "The High Reliability Software"
17505-V NW Sauvie IS RD   Portland OR 97231   503-621-3406
From: netnews@leadsv.UUCP (Leads Network News)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Towing Mooneys (was Re: back to the machine shop)
Keywords: n
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:00:52 GMT
Organization: LMSC, Sunnyvale

>We nearly had to beat one of the line boys at MillionAire (BKL) with a tow
>bar to keep from having him pull the Mooney with a tug.  Here's a
>plane that one person can move with ease (and hard to exceed the turn
>limits) and he wants to use a tug to straighten it out in the parking
>space.  Of course, when we came back from lunch we found that they
>overfueld us (and offered us a whopping $2.00 discount for our trouble).
>
>-Ron
From: claude@leadse9.UUCP (Claude Goldsmith)
One of the advertisers (Norm ?????) in the "MAPA Log", the newsletter
for the Mooney Aircraft Pilots Association, sells a device that locks
into the nose-gear of a Mooney and prevents anyone from inserting a
tow bar.  The device is very light and inserts in such a manner that
it will not interfere with normal operation of the landing gear should
you forget to remove it before flight.  I have one of these and use it
whenever I park my plane away from home at an FBO.

Norm shows up at Oshkosh every year selling motorized aileron trim
tabs, covers for fuel tank fillers to keep rain water out, and a
device for draining the oil out of "spin-on" oil filters so you won't
make a mess when you remove it from the engine.

Claude Goldsmith, CFII <claude@sunfse.ese.lmsc.lockheed.com>
 twisted-pair (408) 742-7514	      | Opinions expressed are not 
 on the air - WB6UOO                  | necessarily those of my 
 through the air - Mooney N6416U      | employer.
From: ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Osh sig haps: The hail, you say.
Date: 18 Aug 92 23:30:23 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

> In the early 1970's, in Texas, my father bought a Cessna 182 that had 
> been outside during a hailstorm.  He got it cheap.  It looked like
> someone with a ball-peen hammer had worked over every upper horizontal
> surface.

You could always try to convince people that it improves the
aerodynamics (it works for golf balls :-).
From: jimm@simsol.UUCP (Jim Morris)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: "remain clear of the ARSA..."
Date: 11 Aug 92 16:49:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: simsol.171
Organization: Systems Simulation Solutions, Beaverton, OR

In article <1992Aug10.171946.25649@pony.Ingres.COM>, kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki) writes:
> I have picked up some habits from listening to the guys in the big iron.
> For example, if I am on a vector, I'll forward this information when I
> check in with the next controller.
> 
>     Titanic approach, Skymasher zero zero zero zero alpha is with you
>     level at 3000, heading two-niner-zero.
> 



The big iron guys do not provide a heading when they check in with a
controller unless they are on an ASSIGNED heading (the most common
terminology in this case is more likely "290 assigned", rather than
"heading 290"). If they are doing their own navigation they will not
give a heading when they check in.
From: myers@hplred.HP.COM (Tom R. Myers)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:44:44 GMT
Subject: Re: Su-29 info request
Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs, Palo Alto CA
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

> I'd ke any information on the Su-29, a Sukhoi OKB product, based on
> the Su-26M aerobatic aircraft.

The US dealer is:

Pompano Air Center
Pompano Beach Airport
1401 N.E. 10th St.
Pompano Beach, Florida 33060

Phone is: 305-943-0829


TRM
From: dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC))
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Gear down
Date: 22 Aug 92 02:14:12 GMT
Organization: U. S. Naval Academy

In article <Aug21.192843.25143@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> wendt@CS.ColoState.EDU (alan l wendt) writes:
!!In article <2051@usna.NAVY.MIL! dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC)) writes:
!!
!!Oh, yeah, I just got back from BUF where I climbed to 9000 feet
!!in the Bonanza WITH THE GEAR DOWN! That's what 25+ hours in
!!a straight legged 182 will do to you.
!!
!
!I did that last week out of Huntsville North heading for Springfield in
!my Bellanca.  When I finally noticed the gear switch and selected up the
!gear politely declined.  It also declined to go down.  I don't think that
!I oversped it because most of the way was climb at 110-120 mph.
!
!I decided to land in Jackson Tennessee, which turned out to be a good
!choice because it has the emergency equipment needed for commercial
!ops but only has a few commercial flights per day.  Also the FSS
!for Western TN is located at the airport.  The folks there were great;
!they shut their airport down for about 45 minutes before I landed and
!probably two hours while they were scraping up the plane.

Alan, I am really sorry to hear that. Keep us posted on the repairs.

Dave Rogers
From: brecher@pyramid.unr.edu (Steve Brecher)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: FAA Proposal to eliminate IFR Pop Up Clearances
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:54:52 GMT
Reply-To: brecher@pyramid.unr.edu (Steve Brecher)
Organization: still disorganized in Reno, NV

In <1992Aug6.162056.19838@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>,
af749@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Philip Ferrante) writes:

> This appeared in the local flying club's newsletter...
> 
> "The FAA is considering changing the Controllers Handbook to eliminate
> Pop Up IFR Clearances and Clearance Void Times.  To object to this
> proposal, send a letter to:

The proposal was to not grant IFR clearances that would be effective below
the minimum insrument altitude, hence preventing departures from
uncontrolled fields unless the aircraft could remain VFR until reaching
the MIA.

According to the Aug. 1992 IFR magazine, the proposal is dead.

--
brecher@pyramid.cs.unr.edu (Steve Brecher)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Subject: Re: High or low tow normal?
Reply-To: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Organization: SICS, Kista (Stockholm), Sweden
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 11:32:28 GMT

In article <1992Aug22.134447.8450@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>, kaye@uniwa (Kaye Stott) writes:
>What is the 'normal' tow position in other countries?

Sweden: High tow.
-- 
Lars-Henrik Eriksson                            Internet: lhe@sics.se
Swedish Institute of Computer Science           Phone (intn'l): +46 8 752 15 09
Box 1263                                        Telefon (nat'l): 08 - 752 15 09
S-164 28  KISTA, SWEDEN                         Fax: +46 8 751 72 30
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: biesel@javelin.sim.es.com (Heiner Biesel)
Subject: Re: Commercial and Military Simulators
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:24:24 GMT

>In article <17059@ulysses.att.com>, esc@ulysses.att.com (E. Steve Crandall) writes:
>>
>> Five or six years ago I had the opportunity to "fly" an Evans and
>> Sutherland simulator.  What is the current state of simulator
>> technology?  Who are the major players these days (is E&S still state
>> of the art?)?

Ahem, modesty should prevent me from stating the affirmative since I work
at E&S, but IMHO they are still the state of the art. BTW, E&S only builds
the visual systems; the cockpit, motion dynamics, etc. are always provided
by other vendors.

The basic trend in image generator technology has been toward greater scene
complexity via more 3-D detail and much more photographically derived
texture. Sensor simulation has become more extensive, and better integrated.

Generally, a given amount of fidelity has gotten cheaper, while the 
performance at the high end has gotten better. There have also been some
advances in display technology, primarily in dome environments, but at
great expense.

Data bases can now provide thousands of square miles of terrain derived
from satellite and aerial photography, allowing rehearsals of specific
missions.

If you're wondering when you can buy one for your PC, don't hold your breath.
However, there just might be one at your local arcade in the next few years,
as the company is exploring entering the entertainment market.

Regards,
       H. Biesel.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: venky@thelonious.bellcore.com (G A Venkatesh)
Subject: Re: Heard on the air (was: "remain clear of the ARSA...")
Reply-To: venky@thelonious.bellcore.com (G A Venkatesh)
Organization: Bellcore, Morristown NJ
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 18:28:44 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.142620.3193@ducvax.auburn.edu> dmcleod@ducvax.auburn.edu writes:
>>>
>>>UAL:  "Coast Approach, this is United, ahhh, United, ummmm...just a
>>>       sec.  Coast, this is United, lessee, United, ahhh, United 634,
>>>       2300 for one-three-thousand."
>>>
>It's been a few years since I saw the cockpit of an airliner but I have
>seen several that had a large dial on the yoke showing the flight number
>in big numbers.  It would seem to make a lot of sense for pilots flying
>a lot of different flights daily.

But the commercial call signs are not the aircraft registration numbers but
the carrier's assigned flight numbers which may change on every leg that a
given aircraft flies. If they have such a card, then the pilot must be
eventually responsible for making sure the card is on the yoke. What might have
been missing in that transmission is what the pilot was thinking (and doing):

"Now where is that damn card...I am sure I had put it there...what is that
behind the rudder pedal...that must be it...damn these yokes...there is no
space to bend down...why can't they put me on an airbus..ok i think I got it.."

Seems like the actual transmission might have been very professional and
dignified given the circumstances.

venky