HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: andre@broccoli.bae.bellcore.com (Andre Cosma)
Subject: recommendations on dive computers and BCs sought
Keywords: dive computers, BCs, regulators
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 20:21:20 GMT


Hello netters,

I remember seeing a number of articles posted in the last few months
in the area of dive computers, but I don't recall seeing any (in)formal
surveys on this subject. I am looking for comments and recommendations
on the 'few' (:-)) models available out there (likes/dislikes, real 
lemons, etc), where bought, and pricing info. 

I realize that the range of features, 'bells and whistles' is quite 
extensive, so let me say that I intend to do only non-deco diving and 
am not looking for air-integrated units. The main features would be
keeping track of my N2 loading, surface intervals, remaining bottom 
time, safety stops, deco stops (if needed), etc.

A quick trip to the local dive shop revealed that they sell three 
different models: the Orca Marathon, the Suunto and the Oceanic ????.
Needless to say, I could not decide which one would be right for me,
based solely on the owner's description of features (although the Orca
was touted as the only computer on the market which has user-replaceable
batteries, albeit at ~$23 a pop.  I seem to remember that the topic 
of user-replaceable batteries has come up on the net before and there 
was at least one model which takes standard-size batteries, as opposed 
to the Orca, which takes the special battery.)

I hope to decide which model would be best for me, based on your 
comments and recommendations, and the available budget at the time of 
purchase (could be a big limiting factor). I will summarize all 
comments and recommendations and make them available upon request.

In a related area, I was planning on buying a BC and regulator. I found
valuable info in the archives and the currently available articles.
The same local dive shop is running a sale on SeaQuest BCs and Conshelf
regs. I asked about the US Divers Cousteau BC (a favorite with some 
people who have recently posted), but the owner recommended the
SeaQuest. Has anyone compared the US Divers Cousteau with the higher end
SeaQuest unit(s)?

I hope I'm not asking for too much. Please send e-mail to 
andre@bae.bellcore.com or post.

Thanks alot,

Andre Cosma
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: dave@pacdata.uucp (David Ambrose)
Subject: Re: Cheap hotel/motels in Monterey
Organization: Steppenwolf's Magic Theater
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:33:53 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.210559.21476@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com> peterson@hpl.hp.com (Chris Peterson) writes:
>In article <BxKG42.KvL@inews.Intel.COM> brodesky@td2cad.intel.com
>(Michael Brodesky) writes:
>>
>>
>>Are there and good cheap hotel places to stay in. 
>
>	There are a couple of very cheap motels 40 minutes north of
>	Monterey on Hwy 1.  However the names escape me... Best Inn?
>	Comfort Inn?
>
	You should also check out hotels in Salinas which is 25-30
minutes from Monterey.  There are a couple of decent yet inexpensive
hotels on North Main St.  Can't say about any on South Main.

>	There are camping sites at Laguna Seca Raceway and Veterans 
>	Memorial Park in Monterey.  Veterans has hot showers (as does
>	Aquarius on Del Monte) but tends to fill up early on Fridays.
>
	Laguna Seca also has hot showers,  but not at all the
bathrooms.



-- 
David Ambrose - Pacific Data Products           UUCP: uunet!pacdata!dave
619/597-3426 				    Internet: dave@pacdata.com
Play it cool,  play it cool,  fifty-fifty fire and ice -- Joni Mitchell
                Auto racing:  It's not just a sport,  it's an attitude.
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: s32905u@saha.hut.fi (Jouni Ilari Polkko)
Subject: Re: Human bodies explode in vacuum?
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 10:31:12 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.193610.14444@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> mayne@cs.fsu.edu 
(Bill Mayne) writes:

> Has anyone here experienced breathing difficulty due to increased gas
> density? ...................
> ......................... I have never experienced any
> depth related difficulty in breathing, though I've been quite a bit
> deeper than 130 feet on air. I have remembered to pay attention, too.
> At what depth does this happen?

I have noticed in pressure chamber at 50 m (164ft) that breathing is 
heavier than in 1 AT pressure. However, I haven't noticed this during
my dives to 50-60 m region. Maybe this is due to additional stress and 
poor judgement becouse of narcosis in water diving, compared 
to just sitting in the chamber in air. But certainly under exertion
this may cause troubles for someone with latent respiratory organ di-
sease or trouble.

Jouni Polkko
jpolkko@niksula.cs.hut.fi

Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: mayne@sync.cs.fsu.edu (William Mayne)
Subject: Re: Free ascent
Reply-To: mayne@cs.fsu.edu
Organization: Florida State University Computer Science Department
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 23:29:19 GMT

In article <0f40=jG00iV203aGVN@andrew.cmu.edu> ps3p+@andrew.cmu.edu (Peter A. Simon) writes:
>
>I did my first emergency free ascent from 80' with no problem because
>every time I ascended from the wreck we were diving on (three times a
>day for 4 weeks before the incident) I did a free ascent "just for
>practice."  I was damn glad I did when my reg finally self-destructed. 
>I remembered the only thing I had to and that was to EXHALE.  Luckily, I
>didn't miss any decompression stops.
>
>The second time was from 200' where I had run out of air and believe me,
>it was scary.  Again, though, successful, because I had continued my
>practice to come up without the regulator in my mouth "just for
>practice" from depths as deep as 150' to my first stop.
>
>I would be interested in reading comments (not flames) pro and con on
>recreational divers practicing "just in case."  
>
>Peter 
>NAUI Inst. #1434

There may be a fine line between a comment and a flame here.

I wouldn't think that practicing free ascents from deeper
than some not very deep limit would be risky because you
would either be ascending too fast for practice or practicing
too slowly for a real emergency. Ascending from 150 feet to,
say, a 30 foot stop should take at least 2 minutes. That is
assuming an ascent rate of 60 feet per minute. Even slower
rates are now advised for safety. (Yes, I know faster rates
aren't so bad at greater depths.)

But I expect that if I was really out of air slowing my ascent
rate would be the last thing on my mind. It is more important to
reach the surface, and I wouldn't take chances estimating how
slowly I could go and still make it on the air in my lungs.

For deep diving it is more appropriate to practice prevention
than to practice free ascents. By prevention I mean things like
good air (or gas) management, redundant breathing apparatus, buddy
contact, and maintaining equipment to minimize the risk of
equipment failures. (I add "if appropriate" to buddy contact since
I don't want to appear to encourage reliance on buddies in extreme
situations.)

At the risk of crossing over into flames, I'd like to ask: What
kind of diving are you doing to have had to do not one but (at
least) two free ascents from significant depth? How did you
manage to run out of air at 200 feet? Think of this as accident
analysis in the interest of knowing what to look out for rather
than questioning your practices.

Bill Mayne
From: Jordon Weinstein <jweinstein@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Date: 16 Nov 92 21:22 PST
Subject: Boston-area dive buddies?
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1458600002:000:788
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!jweinstein    Nov 16 21:22:00 1992


Looking for dive buddy in the in the Boston area for local diving (and trips?).  I'm 43
professional male, single, relatively new to diving, YMCA-certified June, 1992.
Have done a week of diving in Cozumel (loved it at 80 feet!).  Have dive compute-
ter (Scubapro DC-11) that I'm just learning to use.  I love underwater still
photography and underwater video.  Don't yet own my own photo/video equipment
but do own all my own scuba gear.  I am in the broadcasting/video profession.
I've rented still cameras often and u/w video gear once in Cozumel with some
good results.  RSVP here or give a call at (617)524-8836.
Going to Grand Cayman/Sunset House Dec. 4-11.  Would love to .

talk to someone who's been there or find someone who's going then to hang out wih
with.

Jordan Weinstein

Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: dbrown@newssun.med.miami.edu (Daniel Brown)
Subject: Cayman in January
Organization: University of Miami, School Of Medicine
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:01:13 GMT

Does anyone know what the diving in Cayman is like in
January?

Dan

Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: s32905u@saha.hut.fi (Jouni Ilari Polkko)
Subject: CMAS ( was: Re: Human bodies explode in vacuum? )
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 12:54:34 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.151154.10005@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> mayne@cs.fsu.edu writes:
>In article <KETIL.92Nov18203826@sandel.ii.uib.no> ketil@ii.uib.no writes:

Ketil Malde writes:
>> One is advised not to go deeper than 20m on the first CMAS
                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^
>> certificate (**) and 30m on the second (***)  When you go deeper, you
>> lose much bottom time, and besides there's not a lot down there anyway...

William Mayne writes:
> .................................................... PADI, like
> CMAS, teaches that you aren't supposed to go deeper than 60 feet
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> (CMAS 20 m) on the first certificate. I took only the first course

CMAS does NOT teach anything, becouse CMAS doesn't have any standardized
diving training program. National sport divers' associations, which are
members of CMAS in different countries, have there own safety rules
and also certifying procedures differ greatly. First CMAS certificate
is CMAS*. In Norway CMAS* course is just a short introduction and 1-star
divers may dive only in pool (am I correct?). In Finland, CMAS* course 
is a full open water course (with 27 hours theory) and one-star divers 
may dive in open water to max 15 m depth. CMAS** divers are advised to 
follow 30 m limit and CMAS*** (the third degree) divers may dive to 50 m 
(or who cares). British Sub-Aqua Club (BSAC), which is also member of CMAS
and whose degrees are equivalent to and recognized by CMAS, has their own
high quality training programs and safety rules, which are again different.
This unstandardization may confuse, but on the other hand, local diving 
conditions are also different in different countries. 
CMAS just guarantees (or at least tryes) that CMAS certificates issued by 
national associations fill certain quality requirements, but CMAS does not
dictate the exact form of certifying procedures.

I am interested in CMAS certificates, training and certifying procedures 
in different countries. Could CMAS divers in the net mail me summary about
CMAS training and certifying in their countries ? If I get enough infor-
mation, I could do a summary.

> I disagree that there is not a lot (besides wrecks) below 60 feet.
> .......................................................
> ........................ What there is to see at what depths
> depends upon where you are.

Here is nothing else than wrecks below 10 feet.

> Bill Mayne

Jouni Polkko

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jouni Polkko                 |     Euroopasta mie en v{lit{ hittoikaa,      |
CMAS P3 M1                   |     mut Karjalan mie tahon.                  |
jpolkko@niksula.cs.hut.fi    |                                              |
s32905u@saha.hut.fi          |                               Rokka          |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: s32905u@saha.hut.fi (Jouni Ilari Polkko)
Subject: Re: Terminology (and other things)
Keywords: SCUBA, BSAC
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 08:00:14 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.165902.3569@jet.uk> evdg@jet.uk (Erik van der Goot) 
writes:
> ................ For the non-initiated out there, the British SubAqua Club
> is the worlds largest (I think) sports diving organisation with well over
> 44000 members worldwide. It is the only organisation run for and by divers.
                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Not just instructors!! It is also a club, so normally instructors teach in 
> their branch FOR FREE. They must be enthousiastic! 

Very strong statement which is not true at all. BSAC may well be the
largest national organization in the world run for and by divers but
certainly it is not the only one. There are a lot of sport divers'
associations in many countries, which are quite similar to the BSAC in 
their functions. There is also an international non-profit organization
run for and by divers, the CMAS. CMAS has dozens member associations all 
over the world, and also the BSAC is member of CMAS. 


> Happy and safe diving

> Erik van der Goot, BSAC AI 1266.
> evdg@JET.UK
> - Disclaimer: Please note that the above is a personal view and should not 
>  be construed as an official comment from the JET project.

Jouni Polkko
CMAS P3 M1
jpolkko@saha.hut.fi
s32905u@saha.hut.fi
From: philg@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Philip Greenspun)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Shark Hunt -- Sharks common in Hawaii?
Date: 20 Nov 92 18:03:06
Organization: M.I.T. Artificial Intelligence Lab.
	<1992Nov19.141347.18450@newssun.med.miami.edu>
	<1992Nov19.165621.15427@sequent.com>
Reply-To: philg@martigny.ai.mit.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: zug.ai.mit.edu
In-reply-to: kene@sequent.com's message of Thu, 19 Nov 92 16:56:21 GMT


I've been snorkeling about 15 hours, all from the beach, in Hawaii and
I saw a few reef or white-tip sharks once (about 25' down, 200 yards
from shore).  However, they weren't much over six feet long and they
cleared out when a school of dolphins came in.


--

      -- Philip Greenspun

-------------------------------------------------------------
MIT Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
545 Technology Square, Rm 433, Cambridge, MA 02139
(617) 253-8574
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: peterson@hpl.hp.com (Chris Peterson)
Subject: Re: lycra dive skins
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:18:06 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, California

In article <bcrawfor.721451687@sol.UVic.CA>
  bcrawfor@sol.UVic.CA (Bryan Crawford) writes:
>
>How much extra warmth do these provide under a wetsuit?  I find that I get
>pretty cold in my wetsuit below 60' up here in the frozen north, but I can't
>afford a drysuit.  I would certainly consider spending $40 to keep a little
>warmer.

For about $80, a hooded vest will warm you up rather well.  It adds a layer
of insulation around the torso and eliminates shots of cold water down the
spine (brrrr :( ).

I find that my hooded vest makes a big difference in my comfort and warmth --
especially during the winter months (Monterey, CA: winter water temps = 
48-52 oF; summer water temps = 52-55 oF).

    _Chris


-- 
Chris Peterson                                      e-mail: peterson@hpl.hp.com
#include disclaimer.h                                 
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: peterson@hpl.hp.com (Chris Peterson)
Subject: Re: Bad Air at Bamboo Reef???
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:23:52 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, California

In article <1992Nov13.184822.21836@novell.com> bbaker@novell.com (Brad Baker) writes:
>In article <1992Nov12.210559.21476@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com> peterson@hpl.hp.com (Chris Peterson) writes:
>>In article <BxKG42.KvL@inews.Intel.COM> brodesky@td2cad.intel.com
>>(Michael Brodesky) writes:
>>	fills at Bamboo Reef (be aware that there is some nasty rumor
>>	going around about occasional bad fills at Bamboo Reef).
>>
>
>Is this true?  If so I would like to know so I can inform them.  My uncle
>runs Bamboo Reef, and I don't know if he's aware of any rumors that may
>ruin their reputation.
>
> -bako-

One incident of a suspect fill was reported by a SCUBA instructor from the 
Sunnyvale area.  While the instructor felt strongly about the problem, he
has not followed up with Bamboo Reef until now.  As Michael points out 
propogating rumors on the net is irresponsible, and I do apologize.                 
Bamboo Reef has a long-standing reputation for operating successfully in an 
extremely competitive market in Monterey and the SF Bay area.

--
Disclaimer: as always, my opinions (and errors) are my own...

-- 
Chris Peterson                                      e-mail: peterson@hpl.hp.com
Research Computing Services   
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories                              phone: (415) 857-6432
Palo Alto, CA USA                                           fax: (415) 857-5686
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: peterson@hpl.hp.com (Chris Peterson)
Subject: Re: Bad Air at Bamboo Reef???
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:05:01 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, California

I found out from talking with the manager of Bamboo Reef in Monterey that the
the "bad air" incident was indeed the only one reported.  If there had really
been a problem, more problems would have been reported.

Bamboo Reef is very concerned about the quality of air that they pump.
According to Bamboo Reef, they change their air filters every three months,
and also have both the intake air and the output air tested by a Texas
Research Institute; the results of the testing are posted in the shop for
customers to see.
-- 
Chris Peterson                                      e-mail: peterson@hpl.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: daryl@dman.b24a.ingr.com (Daryl Owens)
Subject: Re: Caffeine and Diving
Organization: Intergraph Corporation 
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 13:51:40 GMT

|> >
|> High caffeine levels can cause severe aggitation, focus problems (eyes), short
|> term memory problems, increased BP and respiration and, most importantly, heart
|> palpitations.


I'm no caffine addict but what is considered high levels?

Daryl Owens
From: carl@Cayman.COM (Carl Heinzl)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Just bought a camcorder - who makes a good housing
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:34:33 GMT
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
bcc: carl


I just bought a camcorder and would like to know who makes video
housings for this particular unit.  It's a Sony TR101 and is one of
the 8 mm "palm" sized units.  I'm pretty sure that Sony actually makes
one that is good to 250' or so but who else would make a nice small
housing for a unit like this and how much do they go for?

I have seen a couple of other housings (last May in Cozumel on of our
party routinely took a Ricoh 8 mm unit w/ him) but they all seemed
pretty large (his was was cylindrical, roughly 12" round by 18" or so
long, and had some balast inside!) and looked like they were more
fitted for the camcorders that are longer than the new palm sized
recordors (like the Sony FX series).  With these new sized camcorders
shooting underwater shouldn't be as much of a hassle as it used to
be...

-Carl-
--
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: andrewt@watson.ibm.com (Andrew Taylor)
Subject: Re: Sharks: Search and destroy???  (listen up!)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:29:47 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <1992Nov20.034615.10362@reed.edu> pbray@sloth.Reed.Edu (Peter Bray) writes:
>Statistically the tiger shark is the most dangerous aquatic animal to man.

Not even close. If you include invertebrates, Anopheles mosquito larvae
probably have the best claim followed by an assortment of water-borne
parasites such as schistosomias. If you are only interested in large
vertebrates both Nile Crocodile and Hippopotamus each kill more people
each year than any shark species.

Shark attack statistics for individual species are dubious as reliable
identifications are made in only a fraction of attacks.  Carachinus sp.
(Requiem or Whaler sharks) probably account for most shark attacks globally
because they frequent shallow coastal and estuarine waters.  Foremost might
be the Bull Shark (Carachinus leucas).

> Actually tiger sharks do pose a great threat to scuba divers.

Unprovoked shark attacks on *scuba* divers who are are not engaged in
shark-attracting behaviour such as spear-fishing seem very rare.
I've seen only a handful of records of such attacks by any species.
How many such documented Tiger shark attacks do you know of, if any?

Certainly they must occur in only a tiny fraction of encounters between
divers and Tiger Sharks. 

However I agree, ethically this hunt seems no worse than sport-fishing. It
may be senseless and expensive but its effects are probably minor compared
to other insults to marine ecosystems. Certainly its trivial compared
to the ecological disaster that the Hawaiian islands are above water.

Andrew Taylor
From: sdodd@OES.ORST.EDU (Stephen M Dodd)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Sharks: Search and destroy???  (listen up!)
Date: 21 Nov 92 02:05:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: talon.1ek5h1INNijj
Organization: Oregon Extension Service, Oregon State University, Corvallis, Or.
NNTP-Posting-Host: oes.orst.edu

>	Actually tiger sharks do pose a great threat to scuba divers.  The  
>		Peter 

  Hold it a minute!  When I was diving off Maui I was part of a 12 diver
  boat load.  This among dozens of other boats in the immediate area.
  There are lots of areas I never got even close too with large numbers
  of other divers.  People all over the beaches were swimming, surfing,
  and so on.  This only on one island.

  I don't need higher math to categorically state that among millions of
  water entries each week there were no shark attacks.  It is clear to
  me that sharks pose little if any threat to anyone there.  It is even
  more clear to me that NO ONE knows what the true issues are involving
  shark attacks in Hawaii.  We are only seeing the exception to a very
  strong rule that sharks don't bother people!  In other ways it's
  easier to prove that they don't then that they do.

  Steve



-- 
- Stephen M. Dodd, System Analyst, Oregon Extension Service
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
sdodd@oes.orst.edu          Internet          Oregon State University
503-737-3550                                  Corvallis, OR 97331
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: craig@cattnts.canada.ncr.com (Craig Campbell)
Subject: Re: dangerous misconception (was Re: Human bodies explode...)
Organization: AT&T / NCR Canada Ltd., Toronto, Canada
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 15:09:15 GMT

In article <1e8ttiINN6s7@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> jdale@cats.ucsc.edu (Jonathan Dale) writes:

>I would question this whole tolerance concept.  Based on what I've been taught
>and my personal experience, it seems that nitrogen narcosis affects mainly
>judgement and creative thinking.  It tends NOT to affect performance of
>routine acts.  Thus, an experienced diver who has been diving recently so
>everything is fresh in his/her mind will be able to do a deep dive, no problem,
>as long as nothing weird happens.

Nitrogen narcosis is not fixed symptom, but rather a state your body is in.
It is very much like being drunk.  You can be happy drunk, sleepy drunk,
nasty drunk, depressed drunk, etc.

The happy (overconfident?) type of narcosis is not much of a problem for
me (I actually enjoy it).  I think that I just perform more slowly in this
case.  There are other types (paranoia, terror, convinced you are going to 
die, etc), which are much more hazardous.  This type of narcosis can require
a great act of will power to deal with.

I have not found a way to predict what effect narcosis will have on me on
a given dive, but I have found that experience can help in dealing with it,
and that a tolerance can most definately be built up.  By that I mean that the
hits are (subjectively) less severe.

craig


-- 
Craig Campbell		|	These opinions are entirely the result of a 
Systems Engineer	|	small butterfly crashing into the far side
NCR Canada,		|	of the planet.  Chaos Rules.
an AT&T Company		|	I speak for no one, except, possibly, myself.
Newsgroups: rec.scuba