HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chris@engineer.mrg.uswest.com (Chris Fedde)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Dangers of hunters in the backcountry
Date: 26 Sep 92 07:07:42 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: USWEST Marketing Resources

>
>Greg Jahn, Boise State Univ.| " The sun is the same in a relative 
>/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu / |   way, but you're older. "              
>/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    / | 
>/ (208)3853891.thephone  / |                Pink Floyd
>
>

"Shorter of breath, and one day closer to death."

	:}
 
Chris Fedde, USWEST MRG, chris@mrg.uswest.com, voice 3037842823
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: pgheit01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Bear story
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:36:52 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1992Sep25.225549.19819@nas.nasa.gov>, eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
> Do you guys in Ottawa get subjected to New York City television?
> Ever hear of Pace Piccate sauce (salsa)?

NEW YORK CITY!!!!

Get a rope.


> --eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
>   Acting Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
>   Scientific Programming
>   {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
> Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
> 			Imhof, Cartographic Relief Presentation
> 			Books on or by Benjamin Whorf

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|pH Fred == pgheit01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu    |         "What we lack         |
|        == ..!psuvax1!ulkyvx.bitnet!pgheit01 |   in enthusiasm, we make up   |
|           University of Louisville          |         for in apathy."       |
|                Louisville, KY               |                               |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: manning@usdev.enet.dec.com (ANNE MANNING)
Subject: Re: Sleeping bag advice/recommendation
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date:  1 OCT 92 14:10:31 EST



i have 2 sleeping bags.  both are north face.  one is the cat's meow, a 
fiber fill that weighs (i think) 3lbs. some oz.  my new bag is the
blue kazoo.  it is a down sleeping bag that weighs 2lbs, some oz.  

i have used the cat's meow (rated to 20 F) in 0-5 F with a bivvy and/or vapor
barrier liner.  i DO NOT like to be cold.  this bag, and me, just came back
from 2 weeks in the southwest, arizona and southern utah.  when it was a warm
night i kept the bag open and used a sheet as cover.  i wasn't backpacking
else i would not have brought the sheet.

i am intending to use the blue kazoo 4 seasons as well.  it packs lighter than
the cat's meow and takes up less space in my pack.  i'll be more careful to
keep it dry since goose down does not work well when wet.

also, campmor of paramus, new jersey is having a sale on 3 bags -

the blue kazoo (i just bought this one) , $150.00
the superlight, rated to 5 F, $180.00 
and i forget the third.

give them a call if you want a north face sleeping bag for a good deal.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: Montana Clear Cut
Date: 28 Sep 92 14:40:49 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

sheehan@pagosa.scd.ucar.edu (Tim Sheehan) writes:
>I think someone posted about this the other day, but I got a call
>from Greenpeace last night, and thought I would pass this on:
>
>Bill S-1696, the Baucus-Burns Bill, would open 5 million acres (7800)
>square miles of land in Western Monatana to clear cutting.


There is also some other interesting anti-national park proposals coming
up.   I heard this morning that there is a bill that would allow mining
in national parks on land that has privately owned mineral rights.  I heard
this as I was waking up some not everything may correct.  SO check your
local sources.

Cheers,

Allen R. Sanderson

Salt Lake City, Oootah


"I always wanted to climb those peaks ...
	 just didn't think I would do them all in one day."

	My climbing partner after hiking/climbing in the Wasatch.
From: augy@toz.buffalo.ny.us (Jeffrey Ehlinger)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Montana Clear Cut
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:09:55 GMT
Organization: The Tower of Zot - (716)691-3865

sheehan@pagosa.scd.ucar.edu (Tim Sheehan) writes:
> Bill S-1696, the Baucus-Burns Bill, would open 5 million acres (7800)
> square miles of land in Western Monatana to clear cutting.

     I wrote to three Congressmen about this bill back in June. I got one 
response from Kiko Alagramza (D) TX, and that reply was sent after 
congress passed the damn bill. 5 million acres were marked for 
clearcutting, and 5000 acres were marked for protection.
     The government must start making a profit off of their timber!

==========================================================================
** Mail to: Augy@toz.buffalo.ny.us        <<<Tower of Zot>>> Bflo, NY   **
** The bus came by and I got on, that's when it all began!              **
From: sawicki@src.dec.com (Filip Sawicki)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Wolves : how to cope with ?
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:06:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: src.1992Oct6.190628.27317
Organization: DEC Systems Research Center

In article <BvpBA6.J3G@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, dp10@mc4adm.UWaterloo.ca (Derek Kirkland) writes:
|> Finally someone has brought up the old boogie man. "What about wolves".
|> 
|> Wolves are NOT a problem. They do not attack people in North America.
                                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|>  
|> The person who posted this question about wolves also gave some rather 
|> strange advise about escaping bears. I would ask the poster if he has tried
|> his own method using the real outdoors, with real bears?? Good luck.
|> 

   Remember my posting? I wrote " ... where I hike ... ". America is not the only
wilderness on the globe (though it's surely very interesting, giving you the
whole spectrum of wild life, from New York jungle to Death Valley deserts :-) ). 
Regions I mean are ... guess ... in Eastern Europe, from Poland to Ukraine to
Rumania; the Carpathians, that is. Wolves there tend to be aggressive when
hungry, though sometimes the real danger comes rather from the dogs guarding
sheep. Sadly, year by year there are less and less wolves. They are bound to be
extinct pretty soon.

   On the other hand, European brown bears are much smaller than kodiak or
grizzly, and running downhill may help you. I have never had to try that,
fortunately, but this is widely known solution supposed to work.

   Of course I wouldn't advice anyone to run whenever he/she sees the bear; this
is the very last thing you should do, when everything else fails. And if you drop
your backpack behind, downhill you can run faster than the bear.

fi.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: smithrs@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (SMITH  RANDALL SCOTT)
Subject: Flora and Fauna Bookss
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 20:53:03 GMT


Does anyone out there in netland have any favorite field books on flora and
fauna, especially for the Rocky Mountain states?  

My SO just moved out to Boulder CO to be with me and I've been trying to 
convince her of the beauty of the great outdoors, etc, etc.  Well, her 
interests extend to flowers, esp. gardening, so I would like to get her
a few field books, applicable to the Front Range area, for her to take with
on our day-hikes (I'm working her up to overnight camping and higher elevation
hiking).  She enjoys wildflower hunting (NOT picking) and IMHO would love to
use a field guide.  However, I am not very astute when it comes to wildflowers.
The "little blue ones", or "those pretty yellow ones" is about as far as I
go.  So, any help would be appreciated.

I'd also appreciate any good birding books for the same area (my interest).

Note:  I AM aware of the Audubon (sp?) series, but I do not like them very much.
They are way too broad-ranged for me (Only 15-20 pgs that are relevant)

Please reply via e-mail, and I'll post a summary.

Randy Smith
the mad chemist
smithrs@ucsu.colorado.edu


P.S.:  ISBN numbers would be appreciated if they're available.

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: chrism@col.hp.com (Chris Magnuson)
Subject: Lowa Boots via Mailorder??
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 15:52:37 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

  Anyone know of places that sell Lowa boots?

Thanks,
chrism@col.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: rola@quads.uchicago.edu (roland  winston)
Subject: Allegheny National Forest
Reply-To: rola@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 01:47:37 GMT

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: sdr57@cas.org ()
Subject: Bloodstoppers (was Re: First Aid Kits (summary))
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 17:25:57 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.023736.28738@midway.uchicago.edu> rtp1@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>In my kit I keep a supply of "blodstoppare" which I got in
>Sweden.  These are convenient one-step packages made for
>stopping bleeding in wounds (by pressure) and dressing them.
>They consist of a thick gauze pad, with bandages attached
>which you can wrap around the limb (or finger) to keep the
>dressing in place.  They come in all sizes from "fingers and
>toes" to "mycket staare saar."
>
>I've never had to use one of these, but have practiced with
>them and they seem very convenient.  I have never seen them
>for sale in drugstores here.  In Sweden, they are made3
>by the Cedarroth company.
>.
>
They are available in the US as "bloodstoppers" - I've
never seen them in regular drugstores, but they are
usually available from medical supply houses, paramedic
supply companies, etc.

They are more expensive than surgipads, but the advantages
of having a combined dressing/bandage in treating trauma
make them worth it, IMHO

******************************************************************************
Renegade academician. They're a dangerous breed when they go feral,
academics are...a chemist, too.
		    -(James P. Blaylock in "Lord Kelvin's Machine")

My organization hasn't agreed with any of my opinions so far, and
I doubt they'll start now.

Stanley "Ya nee speon" Roberts
From: amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: walking sticks
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:34:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.BvEp18.7r5
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1992Sep22.214742.8194@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> gadient@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (JL Gadient) writes:

>Two suggestions:
>	1)an old cross-country ski pole - can be had at used equipment
>	  sales for a couple bucks. I use mine for wade fishing.
>	2)one of those laminated ash staffs (made to be a walking
>	  stick). They are made by some canoe paddle company and are
>	  pretty high quality. It would take a lot to break one. I have
>	  one I purchased in one of the camping stores in Gatlinburg.
>	  Good protection against drunks...:-)

I used to use ski poles, but anymore I go for poplar staffs.  The
stuff grows like a weed out at the ranch, and is very strong and
lightweight.  I really have a hard time hiking without one, they are
the most multi-purpose tool I take hiking.


-- 
Anmar Mirza   # Mayor of Dogspit, IN  #My Opinions! NotIU's! #Purveyor of
EMT-D         # Located somewhere in  # Legalize Explosives! #nontraditional
N9ISY (tech)  # the Outback of the    #I've got my own fusion#family values
Networks Tech.# Mirza Ranch.C'mon over#plant. Just ask me.   #Space For Rent
From: mvcy@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Primaloft vs. LiteLoft
Date: 1 Oct 92 00:39:06 EDT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University

Can anyone verify any of the following about Primaloft and LiteLoft?

1. Primaloft is a little lighter than LiteLoft.
2. Primaloft is a little more compressible than LiteLoft.
3. Primaloft is about 30% more expensive than LiteLoft.
4. Primaloft repels water while LiteLoft wicks them.

Any opinions about Caribou 3-season, Sierra Designs Lite'n up and Moonstone
Optima XL?  (Are there any other bags using these fills that are readily
available in the 15-25 degree range?)

Sat
From: jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: "Points": the good way to measure time/distance on the trail
Date: 4 Oct 92 19:51:35 GMT
Reply-To: jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University

In article <15826@umd5.umd.edu> jjk@astro.umd.edu (Jim Klavetter) writes:
>
>[explanation of "points" system:  basically, use time instead of
>distance with some arbitrary rules for terrain]

>This splits to two questions:  which is more useful and which is more
>precise.
>
>Obviously. the "points" system (based on time) is a one-to-one function
>of the distance system, so, in a sense, they are equivalent.  The

Not true.  The "points" system is a two-to-one map.  If converts 
distance *and* the slope of the trail into a single number. 

>Distance, on the other hand, is the same on any (well-made) map,
>regardless of the rules.  Thus, it seems that distance is a better
>indicator (in general) since you can then apply your own rules to get
>an estimate of the time.

This would be a lot of work, particularly if the trail is over rolling 
terrain.  Further, many trail maps do not have topo data, and it is 
asking a lot of a newbie to sort this out. 

I think the real advantage of such a system is that it would help 
give a newcomer a better idea of what the trail will be like and 
thus increase the chance of a positive experience.  Nothing worse 
than finding out that the hike takes much longer than expected. 

[Grand Canyon trail example omitted]

>Additionally, the time/points system is not spatially reversable:  most
>trails will be x hours in one direction and y hours in the other with x
>not equal to y (in general).  In the example above, the Grand Canyon,
>the times x and y will be vastly different.

This is true, but would it not be better to tell the hiker that the 
return trip is harder and longer than the trip down?  For a major 
trail like that, you could give mileage and down/back points, plus 
post a conversion chart into time for different skill levels. 

--
J. A. Carr                                    |  "The New Frontier of which I  
jac@gw.scri.fsu.edu                           |  speak is not a set of promises
Florida State University  B-186               |  -- it is a set of challenges."
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute |   John F. Kennedy (15 July 60)
From: gascan@dcst16.dc (Bill Gascoyne)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Bear bags?  Huh?
Date: 1 Oct 92 17:11:46 GMT
Reply-To: gascan@dcst16.dc
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation

`Bear Bagging' is the practice of hanging your food in bags in a tree, so the bears
don't make a midnight snack of it.  I have heard that, in the Sierra Nevada range,
the bear population is significantly higher than the carrying capacity of the land,
implying that the bears are, to a high degree, subsisting on backpacking food.

Grizzly bears are much bigger and meaner than black bears.  'Black' is a species
designation, not necessarily the color of the bear (there are 'black bears' that
are brown or cinammon in color).
---
1. Bill Gascoyne
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: witters@tc.fluke.COM (John Witters)
Subject: Re: Fear and Social Conditioning
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:19:58 GMT

In article <1992Oct01.124526.8112@brtph560.bnr.ca> jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com (JB) writes:
>
>The question: If your significant other (female) were to trek alone or in
>an all female group, what would be your degree of concern for her safety?
> I'm talking primarily about the threat of danger from other humans.

(I tried mailing this reply, but the address failed.)

Well, it depends on where she's trekking.  In the backcountry here in
Washington, I'd have no concern at all about her safety.  I'd just feel envy
about not going along myself.

Now in someplace like The Bronx, Chicago's lower East side, or Yugoslavia, I'd
ask what funeral arrangements I should make for her.  Of course in these
places, even Ahh-nold or Sylvester wouldn't be safe.

As someone put it in another newsgroup, the further from civilization you get,
the more civilized the people become.

-John

-- 
    *  *  *		John Witters			voice:	(206) 356-5274
  *  \      *		John Fluke Mfg. Co. Inc.
 *    \      *		P.O.B. 9090 M/S 241F		fax:	(206) 356-5116
*   DRIVING   *		Everett, Washington  98206-9090	     or (206) 356-5174
 *      \    *
  *      \  *		domain:	witters@tc.fluke.COM
    *  *  *		ARPA:	fluke!witters@uw-beaver.ARPA
			uucp:	{uunet,sun,microsoft,uw-beaver}!fluke!witters
Hi! I'm a .signature virus!  Add me to your .signature and join in the fun!
From: hjanssen@amiganet.chi.il.us (Hank Janssen)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Advice needed on Smokie Mountains trip.
Date: 5 Oct 92 01:30:24 GMT
Organization: Amiga Network Information Systems


 
 
 
Just a simple question,
 
My wife and i have decided to go to the Smokie Mountains in 
Tennessee for thanksgiving on a three day backpacking tour.
Since we do not know to much about the area, (We live in chicago)
we where hoping somebody on the net could give us some input
on there experiences in the Smokie's.
 
Any help,hints,warnings are very much appreciated.
 
Thanx,
 
 

------------------------------------------------------------------
Hank Janssen.                           IT IS BETTER TO BURN OUT
                                           THAN TO FADE AWAY.
EMAIL:  hjanssen@amiganet.chi.il.us
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jaym@hplsla.hp.com (Jay Miazga)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Protection against lightning? - JOKE
Date: 23 Sep 92 17:21:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: hplsla.3640021
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I was always told to carry a 9 iron in the wilderness, and in the event of a
thunderstorm, to hold the 9 iron over my head.  I would be perfectly safe
from being struck by lightning, as not even God can hit a 9 iron.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


That's a ONE iron.  Not a golfer, huh?
Even *I* can hit a nine iron.

jaym
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: An Insight
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:25:53 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <sandrock.718037633@aries> sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Mark Sandrock) writes:
>trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>
>>The planet is a lot like your body.  Cut or bruise it a little and it will
>>heal.  (This process never ceases to amaze me.)  Beat it up a little worse,
>>and scar tissue will form.  Push it too far, and it will die.
>
>Are you sure about that?  Perhaps it is the "offending" species that is
>ultimately threatened with extinction rather than the earth.

No, I'm not sure.  I'm interpolating.  If enough species are eliminated,
it is possible that the rest might perish as a result.  But I'm no
biologist.  (The biologists don't really know what would happen, either,
when the entire system is stressed to this point.  It's not the sort
of thing you can study experimentally.)


-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
From: ewg@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Ethan Gannett)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 23:21:55 GMT
Subject: Re: United Way and SAR
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

In rec.backcountry, hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal F Lillywhite) writes:

> 
> Well folks, it's that time again.  At least here in Oregon, United
> Way campaigns are starting.  Some of us outdoor types may want to
> consider having all or part of any donations we make go to a local
> search and rescue group.  These groups are not normally part of UW
> but if you use the designated recipient option you can still
> contribute to them (at least here, I'm not absolutely certain that
> policy is nationwide but I think it is).  If you want to do so just
> specify that you want your contribution or a fraction thereof to go
> to whatever SAR group you name.  The only limitation is that the
> group must be tax exempt.
> 
> (I suspect a lot of conservation groups would also qualify but I
> haven't checked this out.)

  Many SAR teams are completely volunteer are only organized under the
  Sheriff's office.  They exist soley by donations and fund-raising.
  Your donation via the United Way will help keep these teams active and
  properly equipped and could literally help save a life. 

Ethan Gannett
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Encountering contraband in the backcountry
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:28:53 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.154113.9740@newshost.lanl.gov>,
mwj@beta.lanl.gov (William Johnson) writes:
>
>It doesn't have to be that melodramatic.  The area where I had one of my
>mildly scary encounters (with Feds, not with "obvious" bad guys; I was doing
>some geological field work rather than hiking/backpacking _per se_) is in the
>"badlands" of western New Mexico, where non-standard farming is about as
>likely to be successful as it would on Mars.  Its remoteness, however, does
>make it suitable terrain for little airplanes that drop below the mesa tops
>and kick bundles of stuff out the door, then go on.  Ever read Tony
>Hillerman's novel "The Dark Wind," or seen the movie?  (Can't speak to the
>movie, but the book is superb.)  That's the kind of country, and the kind of
>encounter that one can potentially have.  The possibility is real, though the
>likelihood is slight.

Sounds a little like stories I've heard from my father-in-law who
was with the USGS during WWII.  Locals would see him and his
assistant in unlikely places and either accuse them of being
"revenooers" or "German spies".  The later was especially the case
if they were obvoiusly equiped with cameras and survey equipment!
It reminds me of stories you read about encounters in third world
situations sometimes.  "They've got a camera (or someother really
suspicious technology like a laptop PC or a Walkman), they must be
from the CIA."  I guess pre WWII parts of the US were third world by
todays standards.
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: The D* film was being safe in the woods
Date: 1 Oct 92 00:58:16 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

In article <q#+pfqk.royg@netcom.com> royg@netcom.com (Roy H. Gordon) writes:
Very nice analysis.
>Dickey's vigorous but poetic prose style makes for interesting reading.
>To me John Voigt and Ned Beatty stand out in the movie, as do the two
>truly terrifying, to me anyway, back country people.  Dickey is great
>in his small role as sheriff.  But I guess this is pretty much digressing...

Oh, I don't think that's a digression.

You only left one one more thing: Conrad's metaphor of the river journey
like life (ala Heart of Darkness) I think that is where the real Deliverance
is significant.  An environmental sensitivity was picked up in the film.
Consider the film w/o the hill people: they still would have had a small
epic with the water fall.  Also note it would have been very simiar
to Abbey's floating down the Colorado in Desert Solitaire in Glen Canyon
(Abbey's Deliverance).  We might have been considerably more sensitive
to the plight of the hill people because of the boy with the banjo (film).
The hand popping up at the end was not in the book, and I think Boorman
(the director) lost a bit of the story at that scene (dramatic license).
But that's just my opinion.  One can go on and on (bhrrrr!).
A great film and a great book.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Acting Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			Imhof, Cartographic Relief Presentation
			Books on or by Benjamin Whorf
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry