HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jef@netcom.com (Jef Poskanzer)
Subject: Re: alt.answers.d (was Re: alt.answers alternatives)
X-Face: uPIE),q]+zmF49L%(pdE;nX/8$/J22&&&C@_)8BouYx42Y--?*,\]*MIeTY#mCM(x>FyD@+0D-Jm]S_8lxop(Q-$L#~b8!ha;eF[b+GOLyu<]4$">NeVymJ@F#M?1O`ue4,h4`2S^KGjmP%no(d,:<Ur:+f6W8$J:'t9BxH
Reply-To: Jef Poskanzer <jef@netcom.com>
Organization: Paratheo-Anametamystikhood Of Eris Esoteric
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 00:28:39 GMT

jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens):
}It takes an impressive amount of hubris to propose to replace a mailing list
}with a newsgroup when the members of that mailing list do not wish it to be
}replaced and have stated so repeatedly.

I have no problem with hubris, but this suggestion is based solely
on experience.  In particular, I did the exact same thing with alt.irc
and that has worked out just fine.  Of course, Greg Lindahl is still
pissed off at me about that, but I think I can cope.

By the way, I am a member of the mailing list and I want it replaced
and have said so repeatedly, so you're wrong on at least one count.  As
for the rest of the members, you know as well as I do that most people
don't speak up if they have reason to suspect they'll be criticized.
Posting that you think a mailing list should be taken public when the
manager of the mailing list has repeatedly said he doesn't want to do
that, and when said manager has a propensity to respond to disagreement
with multi-hundred-line talmudic commentaries including every piece of
mail you've ever sent him...  Well, some people might be reluctant to
do that.
---
Jef

           Jef Poskanzer  jef@netcom.com  jef@well.sf.ca.us
           An equal opportunity employer (M/F/H/Q/Z/R/S/L).
Xref: sparky alt.config:8653 alt.sport.photon:6
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.sport.photon
Subject: Re: Newgroup alt.sport.photon
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:24:46 GMT
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago

In article <1k52q3INNnii@umbc7.umbc.edu> banz@umbc.edu (Rob Banz) writes:
>... to discuss the game/sport of Photon as
>was/is played in Photon centers that are/were across the country.

I've never heard of Photon, but if it falls under the category of
"laser tag", we already have a group for it:

   alt.sport.lasertag      Indoor splatball with infrared lasers.

If not, how is Photon different?

--
Ellen Keyne Seebacher              news@uchinews.uchicago.edu
Lines: 9
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 08:27:01 MST
From: gritton@alaska.et.byu.edu (Jamie Gritton)
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: alt.religion.mormon? anyone?
Reply-To: gritton@byu.edu

slhw4@cc.usu.edu (Jason Hunsaker) writes:

> Is there any opposition to creating alt.religion.mormon for
> general, unmoderated discussions about things Mormon?

Shouldn't you wait until your second proposal for soc.religion.mormon
is finished? Now is not the time to create an alt group.
--
James Gritton - gritton@byu.edu - I disclaim
From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: No, don't (Was: Re: eschew moderated alt newsgroups)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 13:14:08 GMT
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.
X-Newsreader: rusnews v0.98

davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen) writes:
>   I think JK has been doing an acceptable job in general, but he's
> lacking in tact, rigid, and unwilling (in my experience) to admit being
> wrong, or even that he might be wrong. He seems to enjoy some dubious
> high moral ground, and some of his postings and personal mail are
> arrogant, condescending, pompous and argumentative. He sometimes lacks
> the social skills which would make things go smoothly.
> 
>   If there were a person willing and able to do the job, who had more
> adequate social skills, I'd favor dumping a change. As it is, his
> technical execution of the job is acceptable, and no one seems ready to
> step forward and do the work both competently and pleasantly.

Yes, if only Kent Paul Dolan was here, I'm sure we could persuade him to do
the job.


mathew
From: jef@netcom.com (Jef Poskanzer)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: alt.answers alternatives
Date: 27 Jan 93 04:15:22 GMT
Reply-To: Jef Poskanzer <jef@netcom.com>
Organization: Paratheo-Anametamystikhood Of Eris Esoteric
X-Face: uPIE),q]+zmF49L%(pdE;nX/8$/J22&&&C@_)8BouYx42Y--?*,\]*MIeTY#mCM(x>FyD@+0D-Jm]S_8lxop(Q-$L#~b8!ha;eF[b+GOLyu<]4$">NeVymJ@F#M?1O`ue4,h4`2S^KGjmP%no(d,:<Ur:+f6W8$J:'t9BxH

}This is getting quite silly.  There appear to be two (very vocal) groups,
}one which wants Jonathan as the moderator of alt.answers, and one that,
}well, disagrees.  "Agreeing to disagree" is a very nice, alt-like situation,
}but NOT one that ever, EVER works in the _same newsgroup_.  

Why do you say that?  Has it ever been tried before?  Some people said
that self-moderation would never ever work, but it has.

The only person who might legitimately *assert* that sharing the
newsgroup would not work is Kamens.

}It would be nice if we could have just one alt.answers

Yes.

}but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

Maybe not to you; I think it's doable.

}So, Jef and others against Jonathan, this question is addressed to you:
}If two groups were created tomorrow, alt.answers and (say) alt.answers.alt,
}would you confine your FAQ postings to alt.answers.alt and not mess with
}alt.answers?

The suggestion was alt.answers.free, and your question was already
answered.
---
Jef

           Jef Poskanzer  jef@netcom.com  jef@well.sf.ca.us
                         "'Tis but a scratch."
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: newgroup alt.sega.genesis
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 07:41:11 GMT

In article <C16oux.8xv@world.std.com> moroney@world.std.com (Michael Moroney) writes:

>twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>
>>If someone can give me a good reason not to include "!taco!taco" in
>>$NEWSLIB/ignore.pats, I won't ... but God, I'm tempted.
>...
>I believe killing any post with more than two exclamation points after "taco"
>in the path won't lose anything but the forgeries.

My experience is about the same.  Specifically, though, seeing taco
twice in a row is what makes me really suspicious.  Actually, the
pattern "!taco!taco!" would make sure that the second wasn't just the
FQDN for taco.

Boy, and I *like* Tex-Mex.  Bummer.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
From: casspa@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Paul Cass)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL to create alt.politics.radical-left
Date: 23 Jan 93 23:16:51 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: atlantis.cs.orst.edu

I would like to see the creation of alt.politics.radical-left.  Especially
since I no longer know what the policies of the liberal to radical left
are.

-- 
                          * * * * * * *
"It is possible to join forces, to identify common goals, and to agree on
 common action." - U.N. World Commission on Development and Environment
		       casspa@jacobs.cs.orst.edu
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: jmalcolm@sura.net (Joseph Malcolm)
Subject: Re: announcing the alt.cabal
Organization: SURAnet, College Park, MD, USA, NA, Earth, Milky Way
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 00:04:35 GMT

Distribution: alt removed since it doesn't seem particularly
meaningful.

In article <VIXIE.93Jan24142358@cognition.pa.dec.com> vixie@pa.dec.com (Paul A Vixie) writes:
>several of the larger sites are having trouble with their 6500-line active
>files and have been looking for ways to trim some of the junk out of them.

What trouble have they been having? (We have a 6000-line active
file here, although with only 5400 actual newsgroups.)

>what we've come up with is a completely voluntary subscription-only service
>that will let the "alt" groups be managed from a central source.  that source
>is the "vix.com" server, the person who will issue the newgroup/rmgroup
>control messages is "vixie@vix.com", and the "Distribution:" on all such
>newgroup/rmgroup/checkgroups control messages will be "alt.cabal".

A comment: the default INN value of BAD_DISTRIBS includes "*.*"; this
currently only applies to new postings, but who knows what the future
holds. You may wish to avoid distribution names with "." in them.

>the first members of the alt.cabal will be vix.com, decwrl, and uunet.
>others are welcome to apply; all you need to do is make sure that you
>are running INN and that your control.ctl file contains a few more
>lines than it has now and that your "newsfeeds" is properly set up to
>accept this new distribution without leaking it to people who have not
>subscribed to the service.

I would be interested in seeing what you think should and should not exist,
but I would not necessarily want to follow all of your decisions.
Will you still send your control messages to people who may not
follow them?

Also, why the restriction to INN sites?

>all i want is a way to wipe
>out the ones that aren't in use, rename the ones that should be
>renamed, and so on.  for example, there is an alt.missing-children
>newsgroup that noone uses because it was supplanted by
>alt.missing-kids.  this kind of junk is useless to *everyone*.

Agreed.

>i can't wait to hear the flames from people who insist that this is unfair
>in some way.  given that it is strictly voluntary and requires explicit action
>to receive the control messages, i am not going to be terribly receptive to
>complaints.  but send them anyway, they should be amusing.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
-- 
Joseph Malcolm				jmalcolm@sura.net		
SURAnet Operations			+1 301 982 4600
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: karrer@bernina.ethz.ch (Andreas Karrer)
Subject: Re: New alt group: alt.divorce
Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:26:26 GMT

eradm.wbst845e@xerox.com (Erik Radmall) writes:


>I would like to propose a new group for the discussion of any
>issues related to divorce.

>Why?

>1. No newsgroups currently deal directly with this topic.

what is wrong with soc.couples?

 - Andi
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL to create alt.politics.radical-left
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 16:19:43 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.120925.16424@uvm.edu> coan@griffin.emba.uvm.edu.uvm.edu (Brian M Coan) writes:

>The purpose of this group would not be to debate "liberal" versus
>"radical" left. How boring!!

That might not be the intended purpose, but just watch it happen.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
From: kherron@ms.uky.edu (Kenneth Herron)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: Proposal for alt.games.super-nes
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:36:39 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:

>   Due to the growing traffic on rec.games.video I suggest the formation
>of alt.games.super-nes, a Super Nintendo only newsgroup which would deal with
>buy and sell, cheats, anecdotes, game reviews, etc...basically anything
>having to do in any way with the Super NES.

Rec.games.video is seen by more people than see any alt.games group.
Extrapolating from this, some people interested in SNES won't have access
to the alt group, and will no doubt keep using the rec group.  All you'll
accomplish is to have independent discussions going on in both groups,
which is confusing at least.

I recommend that if rec.games.video needs splitting you run a proper
discussion/vote and keep the new groups within rec.games.
-- 
Kenneth Herron                                            kherron@ms.uky.edu
University of Kentucky                                       +1 606 257 2975
Dept. of Mathematics "Your ball goes over them, it sails off the edge into a
huge cauldren of fire-breathing dragons."  "And they call this a par three?"
From: pete@mimsy.umd.edu (Pete Cottrell)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL:  alt.music.TBone-mafia
Date: 22 Jan 93 18:29:10 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

>>There's got to be a better name for the newsgroup though -- while this
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>agreed
>
>>is a pretty tightly-knit sort of musical mafia, to the uninitiated, the
>>word "mafia" is an inevitable throw-off.  Maybe something like:
>>
>>alt.music.Tbone.et.al  OR  alt.music.TBBurnett.et.al  ?

But these aren't them. Capital letters are a bad idea, and I think that
the greater the number of name-parts appended to a group, the less serious
the perception of the newsgroup by the casual observer; people will tend to
put it into the same category as the nonsense groups using the pattern of
alt.something.foo.foo.foo that fit a number of silly groups, or an
alt.group.with.a.long.name.probably.created.by.a.forged.newgroup. I
suggest staying with alt.music.tbone-mafia, or alt.music.tbone-group, or 
maybe just alt.music.tbone or alt.music.tbburnett.
-- 
Spoken: Pete Cottrell 	UUCP: uunet!mimsy!pete      INTERNET: pete@cs.umd.edu  
Phone: 301-405-2749	USPS: U of Maryland, CS Dept., College Park, Md 20742
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Subject: Re: Proposal for alt.games.super-nes
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 21:03:37 GMT

rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:

>   Due to the growing traffic on rec.games.video I suggest the formation
>of alt.games.super-nes, a Super Nintendo only newsgroup which would deal with
>buy and sell, cheats, anecdotes, game reviews, etc...basically anything
>having to do in any way with the Super NES.
>    Well????

I don't see what is wrong with rec.games.video.
-- 
I will not fight about digital vs analog.  I will not fight about digital vs a

DISCLAIMER: My writings have NOTHING to do with my employer.  Keep it that way.
Pete Ashdown    pashdown@slack.sim.es.com    ...uunet!slack.sim.es.com!pashdown
Xref: sparky alt.config:8621 alt.sport.photon:1
From: san7675@zeus.tamu.edu (STEPH)
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.sport.photon
Subject: Re: Newgroup alt.sport.photon
Date: 27 Jan 1993 14:49 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: zeus.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1k52q3INNnii@umbc7.umbc.edu>, banz@umbc.edu (Rob Banz) writes...

>I'd like to know if there's any objection/total jubilation of the creation
>of this newsgroup.  Sorry that I didn't post to alt.config before I created
>the newsgroup, but I'm sort of new at this newsgroup creation thing.

Some total jubilation on this end... :)

>Anyhow, the newsgroup is there to discuss the game/sport of Photon as
>was/is played in Photon centers that are/were across the country.

Neat neat neat... haven't played Photon since the San Antonio place closed
years ago...  The "Last Bash" was one memorable experience... I had heard that
there was still an arena in Phoenix... True?  Not true?

Stephanie

Newsgroups: alt.config
From: vixie@vix.com (Paul A Vixie)
Subject: alt reorg
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 21:51:37 -0800
X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA27234; Fri, 22 Jan 93 21:51:46 -0800
X-Received: by inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com; id AA25657; Fri, 22 Jan 93 21:51:43 -0800
X-Received: by gw.home.vix.com; id AA23727; Fri, 22 Jan 93 21:51:38 -0800
X-Btw: vix.com is also gw.home.vix.com and vixie.sf.ca.us
X-To: alt.config.usenet@usenet.pa.dec.com
X-Mts: smtp

i'm nipping at the edges of some of the older cruft in my active file.
i would like to make the following changes.  does anyone object?

These would be the changes:

revise/create:
	alt.parenting.child-support	(from alt.child-support)
	alt.parenting.dads-rights	(from alt.dads-rights)
	alt.parenting.teens		(from alt.parents-teens)
	alt.parenting.missing-kids	(from alt.missing-kids)
	alt.parenting.single		(new)

delete:
	alt.fathers-rights		(was renamed alt.dads-rights; empty)
	alt.missing-children		(was renamed alt.missing-kids; empty)
From: tjw@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: alt reorg
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:20:36 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1k5felINN8q1@nigel.msen.com>, emv@msen.com (Edward Vielmetti) writes:

> Votes are for weenies, cabals are for control freaks.  Post early and often.

I'd welcome a group that used common sense in creating/managing alt groups and
I believe that this is what is being proposed.  I certainly don't wish to see
any sort of "voting" or "staw poll" introduced, but if a group of ALT admins
could come to a consensus on groups, I'd certainly welcome an "alt.cabal".

Terry
Xref: sparky alt.config:8606 alt.folklore.urban:34833
From: tjw@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: No, don't (Was: Re: eschew moderated alt newsgroups)
Date: 26 Jan 93 03:52:35 GMT
Followup-To: alt.config
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <C186BK.CzI@rahul.net>, phil@rahul.net (Phil Gustafson) writes:

> Jonathan Kamens has done a fine job with
> news.answers, and had provided a valuable service to the net.  A year or so
> ago, he was faced with a bumptious former FAQmeister of AFU who wanted to
> call the afu archive jik-dik.  Or maybe jik-dick.

> Now, in five minutes, he could have resolved this matter politely:

>   I believe that afu-faq is a more appropriate name for the archive.

> Or, if he were grouchier:

>   I believe that afu-faq is a more appropriate name for the archive, asshole.

> Or, if he wished to earn the hearts of afu-ers everywhere (and there are
> more than 40,000 of us):

>   The archive is called peter-pooter.  Live with it.

"This is exactly right" (which sounds like an AFU motto).  I think even PETER
would have gotten a good chuckle from such a reply.


> People have called Jon "stuffy" and "anal", and this may be true.  This
> is why we post to afu and he doesn't.  

Yes, I saw those postings too.  This is, of course, what Peter was trying to
say a year ago when he posted his "JIK-DIK" FAQ.  Yes, it was obnoxious.  No
one will deny that.  But Peter's point was that this is ONLY the net and
lightening up here never hurts.

All of us have been, at one time or another, "stuffy".  Every once in a while
we need to step back and smell the packets, I suppose.

My point in all of this is to say that if Mr JIK wants to be the Grand Poohbah
of alt.answers, that's fine by me.  Nobody else has volunteered to do it and
it's not likely that anyone else will.  But, more than likely, another group,
alt.answers.d, will spring up;  this being ALT, someone will newgroup it.
We don' nee' no steekeen' votes! (or badges!) here on ALT.

If such a group is not conducive to the operation of alt.answers, this had
best be stated right now.

>But the afu FAQ is a valuable 
> resource, and deserves news.answers, and it's sad that a silly tiff
> has kept it out.

I don't know the status of the AFU FAQ.  Being a "free thinker" I never look
for spoon-fed answers (here on the Final Frontier of ALT ;-)

Terry
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.sport.photon
From: claebaur@shell.portal.com (Tony S Annese)
Subject: Re: Newgroup alt.sport.photon
Organization: Portal Communications Company -- 408/973-9111 (voice) 408/973-8091 (data)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 03:15:48 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.162446.10737@midway.uchicago.edu> elle@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>I've never heard of Photon, but if it falls under the category of
>"laser tag", we already have a group for it:
>   alt.sport.lasertag      Indoor splatball with infrared lasers.
>If not, how is Photon different?


Well its kinda the same but a little different. In Photon you dont die. You are
just stunned for a few seconds and When you hit someone you get points and 
whichever team has the most points after 8 minutes I believe it is wins. It
has a capture the flag theme where you have to shoot a "flag" or a glowing
disc 3 times in a row without being hit yourself.
--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Tony Annese                                            claebaur@shell.portal.com
                                                  -or- claebaur@cup.portal.com
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
From: davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: No, don't (Was: Re: eschew moderated alt newsgroups)
Date: 21 Jan 93 17:12:16 GMT
Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady NY

In article <2240@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, tjw@vms.cis.pitt.edu writes:

| If one is going to be a moderator or a system admin, one has to learn to:
| 
|         A) Have a sense of humor and
|         B) Just say NO!  (or my personal favorite: "Tough!")
|         
| This is all much ado about absolutely nothing.  Jonathan should never have
| blown this up into such a big deal.  He got himself baited into this flame
| war.  This is what happened to him in AFU as well.  He must learn to say no.
| Butting heads (which is NOT the same as BEING a BUTThead) only weakens a
| moderator's postition.

  IMHO JK lacks (a) and is also sometimes deficient in (c) "moderator
should work at getting the job done, not play roadblock and look for
excuses to reject stuff because of some tiny deviation from the
guidelines." The are *guidelines* not written in stone by a deity!

  I think JK has been doing an acceptable job in general, but he's
lacking in tact, rigid, and unwilling (in my experience) to admit being
wrong, or even that he might be wrong. He seems to enjoy some dubious
high moral ground, and some of his postings and personal mail are
arrogant, condescending, pompous and argumentative. He sometimes lacks
the social skills which would make things go smoothly.

  If there were a person willing and able to do the job, who had more
adequate social skills, I'd favor dumping a change. As it is, his
technical execution of the job is acceptable, and no one seems ready to
step forward and do the work both competently and pleasantly.

  Given a choice between nasty competence and pleasant ineffectuality, I
reluctanly choose competence.

  I think it's too bad that a person who's contribution to the net (and
I'm not denying there is one) is bureaucratic would not expend a little
effort to assist someone who contributes code, expertise, and
organizational skill to the net. Of course I think Jef should be able to
deal this better, too.

-- 
bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
    Keyboard controller has been disabled, press F1 to continue.