From: scotty@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Scott Griffin)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
Subject: Decision 69 Camaro -- NO
Keywords: Responses   Thanks to all.
Date: 13 Nov 92 01:24:41 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Distribution: usa





I have decided against this Camaro although with some remorse.  Part of 
me would like to have a cherry non-original hot rod.  And the other part 
of me would like to have an original car that has some potential for  
appreciation.

Well, at any rate I think that I can do better.  Thank you to all all who     
responded, your information and advice was helpful. 


Summary of pertinent responses follows.
______________________________________________________________________________


From rrusk@amber.ssd.csd.harris.com Mon Nov  9 11:35:21 1992
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From: rrusk@amber.ssd.csd.harris.com (Bob Rusk)
Message-Id: <9211091934.AA05710@amber>
To: scotty@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Scott Griffin)
Subject: Re: Decision on buying 69 Camero
Reply-To: rrusk@travis.csd.harris.com
Status: RO

>Is the 327 a good motor for this car?

The 327 was a fine engine.  You would need to define what "good motor for
this car" means, but this engine should have more than adequate power
and is still light enough to not mess up the balance of the car
like a big block would.  However, if you're not staying stock anyway,
a 350 might be better yet.

>Should I hold out for a more desirable car?  Like an SS or RS?

That's up to you.  Are you buying the car for its investment potential
or to have fun with it?  IMHO the investment potential is hurt by the
deviations from stock/original.

>How can I find out if this car has posi?  The owner doesn't know.

Jack up both rear wheels and put the transmission in park.  Turn one of
the back wheels by hand.  If the other one turns in the opposite direction,
there is no posi.  If you can't turn it very far, you have posi.

>Could I resell it for $6500?

I'll leave this one for somebody else.  I believe that deviations from stock
diminish the value, though.  (Missing vinyl roof and 327 badges, raised stance,
aftermarket wheels, extra gauges, non-stock engine.)  Also, is the engine
the original one that came with the car?  $6500 sounds high to me, but I 
haven't been following these at all lately.

Good luck with your decision.

 Bob Rusk
 rrusk@ssd.csd.harris.com
 My thoughts, probably not Harris'.

____________________________________________________________________________

From mshar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu Mon Nov  9 11:52:49 1992
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From: mshar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mike Mshar)
Message-Id: <9211091952.AA16230@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
To: scotty@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com
Subject: Re: Desision on buying 69 Camero
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.sport,rec.autos.tech
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Cc: 
Status: RO

In article <56854@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> you write:
>Ok you Chevy heads, give me some advice.  
>
>Is the 327 a good motor for this car?

It should perform quite well. 327`s have a good bore/stroke ratio that lets
them rev pretty nice. I like just about all smallblock chevy`s, probably
327`s the best. My father used to build and race cars quite a bit, and he
likes 327`s too. 
>
>Should I hold out for a more desirable car?  Like an SS or RS?

If you are going to plunk down that kind of money, may want to wait for a
better Camaro to come buy. If this car was completely stock, then it would
be great, but it`s not, so it`s collectors value will not be very great. It
really depends mostly if YOU really like the car.

>
>How can I find out if this car has posi?  The owner doesn't know.

Easy. Jack up the back end and put the car in park. Turn one of the rear
wheels with your hands. If the car is non-posi, the other tire will spin in
the opposite direction that the tire you are touching spins. If it is a
posi, the tire on the other side will spin in the same direction or not at
all. It will be very difficult to move one of the tires is the car has a
posi, but it will be fairly easy if it does not have posi.
>
>Could I resell it for $6500?

Hard call. As always, it is a matter of finding the right buyer.

>
>Could someone parse the vin number and send me the information?

Don`t have a Camaro book, so I couldn`t help ya there.

-- 
|       Michael G. Mshar        | My Life-Long Goal: To keep common sense    |
|   mmshar@mn.ecn.purdue.edu    | alive and keep the idiots from taking over.|
|  mshar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu   |     \\President, Nice Guys Anonymous//     |
|____>>> United States Steel, Mechanical Engineer, Technical Services <<<____|

____________________________________________________________________________

From Jim.Vienneau@East.Sun.COM Mon Nov  9 12:52:15 1992
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From: Jim.Vienneau@East.Sun.COM (Jim Vienneau  - Sun Microsystems)
Message-Id: <9211092100.AA13409@hienergy.East.Sun.COM>
To: scotty@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com
Subject: Re: Desision on buying 69 Camero
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.sport,rec.autos.tech
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
Cc: 
Status: RO

$6500 sounds a little steep for a "plain jane" '69, at least for this part
of the country. The 327 is a fine motor, the turbo 350 is fine (thought I'd
prefer a 4 speed). I have restored a few of these early F bodies, in fact I
have a '67 Firebird 400 in the garage now. Things to look for:

 -Check under the rugs and under the trunk mat for rust and/or patch panels.

 -Check for bondo (a magnet works good).

 -Check the color/smell of the transmission fluid (brown/burned=bad)

 -Look inside the doors and quarters with a flashlight for rot

 -Do the numbers match? (engine s/n = body s/n)

Posi differentials have a tag on them, also you can jack up one back wheel
with the trans in neutral. If you can turn it, it's not posi. I'd bet you
can find one more collectable (especially in this economy) for that kind of
money. Don't let the $10K investment sway you, restoration is a labor of love,
not a money making proposition.


-- 
Jim Vienneau, Sun Microsystems Inc - Billerica, MA
Email: jvienneau@east.sun.com   Amateur Radio: WB1B
Good old Ma Bell (well old anyway): (508)671-0372
_______________________________________________________________________________

From bill@ecn.purdue.edu Mon Nov  9 13:39:43 1992
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To: scotty@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com
From: bill@ecn.purdue.edu
Subject: Re: buying 69 Camaro
Status: RO

Hi Scott,

If it's a nice car the price is probably ok. From your description it
sounds pretty nice overall. If you are worried about the price have it
appraised.

There are a few things you mentioned that would lower the value of the car
as an original, but most easily fixed. How are you judging the height of
the car? If it has had the springs replaced it would sit higher than most
69's on the road due to spring sag. The 327 is a fine engine, no need to
worry about that. I have a 327 in my 69. I think all 327's for 69 had a 2
barrel carb.

About all I can tell from the VIN is it is a 69 Camaro with a V8 made in
LA. For more information send me the info on the DATA plate located on the
firewall. Try to type it like it looks on the tag to help keep the numbers
in the right place :-)  Info on here can give the original colors of the
car. On a 69 you can also tell if it has the original motor (numbers
matching) by looking on the stamping pad located on the front of the motor
below the pass. head. On mine it reads, 19 505758 VO904FK. FK is a 327. The
505758 matches the last six numbers in the VIN. So this engine goes with
this body. Yours should be 513517.

It sounds like the guy invested the money to build a nice car. Does it have
disc brakes? That's one thing I would look for, mine has drums and can be a
handful to stop!

   Bill Drake   -   bill@ecn.purdue.edu

   47 Ford Coupe////454/AT/3:00//// the "Fat Rat"
   69 Camaro convertible////327/AT/2:73
   73 Camaro LT
_______________________________________________________________________________


From @UKCC.uky.edu:trouttm@WKUVX1.BITNET Mon Nov  9 13:53:38 1992
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Subject: SUBJECT
Status: RO

X-News: wkuvx1 rec.autos:29624

>From: scotty@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Scott Griffin)
>Subject:Desision on buying 69 Camero
>Date: 9 Nov 92 17:39:52 GMT
>Message-ID:<56854@olivea.atc.olivetti.com>

>
>Hi,
>
>I am serious about buying a resored 69 Camero for $6500.  The restoration
>was done by an amateur, but it looks very good.  The car has not been
>shown in competetion so I don't know how it would stack up against
>other cars.  The car looks, and drives perfect.  The owner, has recipts
>for about $10,000 on the car.  All the restoration was done in 91 and
>92.
>
>The car is not completely original for example the original wheels are
>replaced by aftermarket mags.  The vinyl top has been removed during the
>paint restoration, and the 327 badges have not been put back on the car.
>Also the car sits 2 inches higher than stock.
>
>The interior is complete and original accept for two extra vdo gauges on
>the console behind the gear shift.
>
>The motor is rebuilt 15K miles ago.  The camshaft has been changed,
>headers with dual exhaust have been bolted on.
>
>I plan to drive this car to work a couple of times per month and join a
>Camero club and take it to local meets and events on the weekend.
>
>SPECS.
>
>327 motor rebuilt 15K miles ago $1400 recipts, Mild cam, new headers
>mufflers and exhaust.  TH350 Transmission.
>
>New everything in interior, stock 69 radio.  Looks like a showroom car.
>
>New forest green metalic paint.  Almost perfect, $2400 recipts done in
>1992.
>
>124379L513517 vin number.
>
>
>
>QUESTIONS.
>
>Ok you Chevy heads, give me some advice.
>
>Is the 327 a good motor for this car?

It's a good motor for *any* car!

>Should I hold out for a more desirable car?  Like an SS or RS?

>
>How can I find out if this car has posi?  The owner doesn't know.
>
Well, you could test it on a wet road, but that may not be possible.  Your
local GM dealer has his parts book which tells whether or not it is posi and
what ratio it is.  All you need is a couple of part codes off of the rearend.
_______________________________________________________________________________

From rbt%dracut@keps.com Tue Nov 10 08:31:23 1992
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From: rbt%dracut@keps.com (Bob Tufts)
Message-Id: <9211101632.AA26633@dracut>
To: scotty@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com
Subject: Re: Desision on buying 69 Camero
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.sport,rec.autos.tech
Organization: Kodak Electronic Printing Systems
Cc: 
Status: RO

Please don't take this as a total flame, but it would help if you are going
to buy one that you know the car is a CamAro (not CamEro). It's amazing that
this mis-spelling has become so popular that it seems most people believe it
is the correct spelling. Maybe it's only my problem, but it's like fingernails
on a chalkboard to me!

Good luck in your hunt. I also admire Camaros, but never ended up buying one.
I do know it's "Buyer beware" when it comes to '69 Indy Pace Cars. (Seems it's
easy to fake one -with all the repro pieces available).

-Bob T.
_______________________________________________________________________________



From bbking!rmarks@PRC.Unisys.COM Tue Nov 10 12:37:19 1992
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From: bbking!rmarks@PRC.Unisys.COM
Message-Id: <9211102037.AA25766@arbor.PRC.Unisys.COM>
To: scotty@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com
Subject: Re: Desision on buying 69 Camero
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.sport,rec.autos.tech
Organization: Unisys Malvern Development Center.
Cc: 
Status: RO

Do not know about semi-classic cars.  But if you like it,
it sure looks like a bargin to me.  would cost you that
much or much mor eto do it yourself.

On the posi - just jack up the rear - both rear wheels off
the ground - out of gear and emergrncy brake off.  Have
a friend help you.  Friend holds one wheel, you try to
spin the other.  If no spin then posi.

good luck,
Richard Marks
rmarks@MDC.unisys.COM
_______________________________________________________________________________


From aefron@cornerstone.com Wed Nov 11 06:32:32 1992
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From: Andrew Efron <aefron@cornerstone.com>
To: scotty@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Scott Griffin)
Cc: aefron@cornerstone.com
Subject: Re: Desision on buying 69 Camero
Status: R


You might try forwarding your message to the f-body mailing list, which you 
can reach at:

f-body@boogie.ebay.sun.com

It's a mailing list for Camaro/Firebird enthusiasts.  Mention that you're not 
a list member, you heard about the list on the net, and responses should be 
emailed to you directly.  Chances are you'll get some decent info there.  If 
you'd like to join the list (if you do buy the car you might consider it 
seriously) you should send your subscription request to:

f-body-request@boogie.ebay.sun.com

I don't know enough about Camaros to comment on the asking price, but the 
question of whether to buy should be based on what you want from the car.  If 
you want an all original car you're going to have to do a little work, like 
finding the right wheels, getting rid of the headers, gauges, etc and you 
should make sure the numbers (vin #s on engine and car) are matching.  If you 
don't mind having this extra work or you don't car about the non-original 
stuff, fine.  Just be sure YOU know what YOU want from the car.

Btw, a friend of mine has two classic, original Firebirds, a '68 (400, Muncie 
4-speed) and a '69 (350, auto), which are both really fun cars.  The '68 also 
had a vinyl top which my friend removed when he repainted the car because 
they just create a lot of rust under the vinyl.

If you have any questions feel free to email me.

Andy
_______________________________________________________________________________


From STUART.HANCOCK@OFFICE.WANG.COM Thu Nov 12 06:26:19 1992
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Date:         12 Nov 92 09:18:39 EST
From: "Stuart Hancock       (V)" <STUART.HANCOCK@OFFICE.WANG.COM>
Subject:      '69 CAMARO
To: <Scotty@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com>
X-Office-To:  USENET SMTP
Status: RO



                  Scotty,

             Sorry that somebody's reply wasn't very helpful....spurred
     me to send a quick note.

               I have a 327 which I used to have in a pickup truck that
      I had done a moderate amount of performance work on.   My experiences
      with the 327 in particular and Chevy small blocks in general is, without
      exception, completely positive.  Parts are cheap, and the motor is well-
      designed, powerful, and generally very reliable.

           To check for positraction:  Jack up the rear end of the car,
    completely, so that the wheels are off the ground (a floor jack under the
    differential is great for this).  With the car in neutral and the
    emergency brake off (chock the front wheels before doing this), rotate
    one of the rear wheels.  If the other rear wheel rotates in the same
    direction, you have a positraction rear end (at least, your car does :-) ).
    (Also known generically as limited-slip differential, created by having
    a series of small clutches in the differential.)  If the opposite wheel
    rotates in the opposite direction, you do *not* have positraction.
         Also, as a side note, "Revving it up to about four grand and
   sidestepping the clutch" will not always definitively answer the
   positraction question, as if the weight/traction on the wheels falls
   within certain limits, you CAN spin both tires even without a limited-
   slip differential......or so I've been told  :-).
        My rule on this type of car purchase:  If the frame is not bent or
   rusted and the body is in *great* shape, buy the car (at that price).
   They are the two items which represent the biggest pain in the ass to
   have to fix; the body is a pain (major), and the frame being hurt/rusted
   threatens the life of the car.

                              Best of luck,

                                       Stu