HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston)
Subject: Re: contacting anatolia.mn.org
Reply-To: gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston)
Organization: SCI Systems, Inc., Huntsville, Al.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:07:30 GMT

In article <TRSNYDER.93Jan8142322@vf0031.mcs.drexel.edu> trsnyder@mcs.drexel.edu (Bob Snyder) writes:
|In article <821@ulogic.UUCP> hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman) writes:

|   In article <TRSNYDER.93Jan6143825@vf0031.mcs.drexel.edu> trsnyder@mcs.drexel.edu (Bob Snyder) writes:
|   >This seems unacceptable for me personally, when you could drop an unknown
|   >number of articles, and a kill file (and a smart control system for becker)
|   >will do just as well.

|   One difference, Bob.  A kill file will prevent you from seeing the articles,
|   cutting anatolia out of the feed will prevent you from wasting time on
|   the phone downloading them (assuming you have a UUCP feed).

|Right.  I realize this.  But is the volume enough to make it worthwhile to
|cut the articles using this method?  I freely admit I haven't checked the
|volume, but I would suspect that the amount posted is trivial when compared
|with a moderate sized news feed.  Especially if your system can use one file
|for all the postings, as UNIX generally can.

I suspect it depends mostly upon what groups you receive. From what I've
heard, there was a *lot* of the blather being dumped in soc.culture groups,
with talk.politics.* as the second "beneficiary". For a small site, or one
with facist accounting people, it could easily be a problem.

|I could see using it if all you got were the "afflicted" groups, or a small
|set including them.  But for a mid-normal sized feed, I'm not sure it'd be
|worth it.

Small price for better s/n ratio. Further, it wasn't just the number of
articles, the size of them was excessve and redundant. 

As far as the concerns about losing articles from leaf sites by using the
alias feature to block anatolia, feline, and zuma, I did a brute-force 
scan of my news spool, collected a couple of MB of Path: headers from
our modest newsfeed, and found a total of 58 articles that had passed
through those sites (didn't check for whether or not the articles had
originated at them) in a weeks' news. I think I can stand the loss to
avoid Argic/Mutlus' ravings and Beckers' "save the alt. groups" campaign.

|(And to the other person who posted that adding the lines to your sys file
|would only check the message id:  Are you sure?  I seem to recall C-news and
|INN scanning the path header.  I'm an ex-news admin, and don't have sources
|to either handy, or I'd check. :-)

That was me; I was in error. Aliasing does indeed check the Path: header.

For 58 articles/week I miss, I still think I can handle it....


-- 
Gary Heston    SCI Systems, Inc.  gary@sci34hub.sci.com   site admin
The Chairman of the Board and the CFO speak for SCI. I'm neither.
"Data sheet: HSN-3000 Nuclear Event Detector. The [NED] senses the gamma
radiation pulse [from a] nuclear weapon." As if we wouldn't notice...
Xref: sparky news.admin.policy:1114 news.groups:25447
From: mbs@adastra.cvl.va.us (Michael B. Smith)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,news.groups
Subject: Re: misc.activism.general.NOT
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn-beta 1.16g (04.01.93) by Michael B. Smith & Mike Schwartz
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Date: 12 Jan 93 18:58:34 EST
Organization: Well, I haven't decided on a name yet...

In article <2B52D5E4.162D@tct.com> chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
> Recently we have been treated to a massive cross-posting from that
> bastion of fairness, misc.activism.general.  The full text is below,
> but you can get the flavor of it just from its subject:

> According to jad@Turing.ORG (John DiNardo):


I can't speak for that newsgroup, but Turing.ORG went off the net for good
last night.

Why, you ask? Free speech and expression concerns of its Internet provider.
--
  //   Michael B. Smith
\X/    mbs@adastra.cvl.va.us  -or-  uunet.uu.net!virginia.edu!adastra!mbs
From: dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz (Kennelmeister)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: contacting anatolia.mn.org
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 93 21:20:52 +1300
Organization: The Dawghaus BBS, Palmerston North, New Zealand (+64 6 357 9245)

paul@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Paul Pomes - UofIllinois CSO) writes:

> What would be really handy is the ability to add aliases to the ME entry,
> e.g.,
> 
> ME/zuma/becker:comp,news,etc\all:F:
> 
> so that messages that had been through zuma or becker would be rejected.
> This could be done by looking at the message-id presented to nntpd or
> after article reception when the Path: line was available.  At that point
> the message-id would be recorded in the history file but the article
> wouldn't be stored - just the way a cancel is handled.

It certainly would be useful for zuma, as it seems to be a leaf site,
but rejecting "becker" out of hand would create severe problems,
due to it being a gateway site, and would disadvantage many people.

Most of Bruce's forgeries seem to have ..becker!feline!... in the path.

On the S.... A.... problem.

Perhaps sending a copy of the offending breaches of copyright to the
publishers of the material along with instructions on how to contact
the perpetrator would do the trick. It'd be quite amusing for the
owners of zuma to be sued off the net by the very authors it's
misquoting....

--
                                                            => Dogbowl <=
From: gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston)
Subject: Re: contacting anatolia.mn.org
Reply-To: gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston)
Organization: SCI Systems, Inc., Huntsville, Al.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:41:19 GMT

In article <TRSNYDER.93Jan5143405@vf0031.mcs.drexel.edu> trsnyder@mcs.drexel.edu (Bob Snyder) writes:
|In article <1993Jan5.152506.9886@sci34hub.sci.com> gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston) writes:

|   Have your feed site do it; I just had uunet fix ours to read:
|
|	   sci34hub/anatolia,zuma,feline:groups,...

|Won't this also drop any articles that pass through those sites on their way
|to you, no matter what site posted the article?

I don't think so. This is an alias function, rather than a path-scanning
thing, so it would be checking the articles' Message-Id: header instead 
of the Path: header. (I don't know everything, though, so I could be wrong.)

|I don't know how well connected those sites are, but it's still something that
|would make me think twice about doing this.

I don't think anatolia or zuma are connected at all right now, but apparently
they were leaf sites with few other connections besides mn.org. I have no
idea how well connected feline is, but I really doubt that I'll miss a percent
or so of net traffic by having done this. Eliminating anatolia/zuma will 
probably make a larger reduction in my traffic, by a long shot. Articles 
get dropped all the time anyway, for various reasons.

-- 
Gary Heston    SCI Systems, Inc.  gary@sci34hub.sci.com   site admin
The Chairman of the Board and the CFO speak for SCI. I'm neither.
"Data sheet: HSN-3000 Nuclear Event Detector. The [NED] senses the gamma
radiation pulse [from a] nuclear weapon." As if we wouldn't notice...
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: mjenkins@alfred.carleton.ca (Michael Jenkinson)
Subject: Re: Babak Sehari postings -- iastate.edu is dealing
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 14:16:06 GMT

In <1ie4t2INNhcr@agate.berkeley.edu> dpassage@soda.berkeley.edu (David G. Paschich) writes:

>I would think that the information about what happens to Mr. Sehari
>would come under federal student privacy laws, and therefore not be
>appropriate for distribution on Usenet.


Does this mean the date and time of his public flogging will not be announced?
From: kbibb@maui.qualcomm.com (Ken Bibb)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: contacting anatolia.mn.org
Date: 9 Jan 93 00:59:26 GMT
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA

In <TRSNYDER.93Jan8142322@vf0031.mcs.drexel.edu> trsnyder@mcs.drexel.edu (Bob Snyder) writes:

>In article <821@ulogic.UUCP> hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman) writes:

>   In article <TRSNYDER.93Jan6143825@vf0031.mcs.drexel.edu> trsnyder@mcs.drexel.edu (Bob Snyder) writes:
>   >This seems unacceptable for me personally, when you could drop an unknown
>   >number of articles, and a kill file (and a smart control system for becker)
>   >will do just as well.

>   One difference, Bob.  A kill file will prevent you from seeing the articles,
>   cutting anatolia out of the feed will prevent you from wasting time on
>   the phone downloading them (assuming you have a UUCP feed).

>Right.  I realize this.  But is the volume enough to make it worthwhile to
>cut the articles using this method?  I freely admit I haven't checked the

Argic was (when I last checked) in the top 10 for either volume of
number of postings.  Something like 200 posts/week.  If you're getting
the affected soc.* groups, it could make a big difference.

-- 
Ken Bibb                "And something is cracking, I don't know where
kbibb@qualcomm.com	 Ice on the sidewalk, Brittle branches in the air"
jester@crash.cts.com    	--"Cracking", Suzanne Vega 
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: jmalcolm@sura.net (Joseph Malcolm)
Subject: Re: contacting anatolia.mn.org
Organization: SURAnet, College Park, MD, USA, NA, Earth, Milky Way
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:04:36 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.214119.24520@sci34hub.sci.com> gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston) writes:
>In article <TRSNYDER.93Jan5143405@vf0031.mcs.drexel.edu> trsnyder@mcs.drexel.edu (Bob Snyder) writes:
>|In article <1993Jan5.152506.9886@sci34hub.sci.com> gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston) writes:
>
>|   Have your feed site do it; I just had uunet fix ours to read:
>|
>|	   sci34hub/anatolia,zuma,feline:groups,...
>
>|Won't this also drop any articles that pass through those sites on their way
>|to you, no matter what site posted the article?
>
>I don't think so. This is an alias function, rather than a path-scanning
>thing, so it would be checking the articles' Message-Id: header instead 
>of the Path: header. (I don't know everything, though, so I could be wrong.)

No, this definitely checks the Path: header.

-- 
Joseph Malcolm				jmalcolm@sura.net		
SURAnet Operations			+1 301 982 4600
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,news.admin.misc
From: skunz@iastate.edu (Steven L Kunz)
Subject: Re: Babak Sehari postings -- iastate.edu is dealing
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 21:48:56 GMT

In <1icf6mINN8r7@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens) writes:

>The poster flooding the net with copies of the same message in every newsgroup
>is being dealt with.  When I started seeing the messages, I sent mail to the
>News administrator at his site asking for something to be done about it, and I
>just got back this mail message (which I consider OK to post since it's a form
>letter that was sent out to anyone who wrote to the news administrator of the
>site about the problem):

>-----
> [form letter email reply about this topic from skunz@iastate.edu]

I really should have posted the email-reply I was sending out here (in
newsgroups news.admin.misc and news.admin.policy) to start with - sorry.

I promise you all it IS being handled.  He started an automatic posting
process for what was probably every newsgroup on the net.  He started it
from multiple machines and let it run.  The "postmaster" here had at least
50 email messages off the net regarding this, I (as news admin) had at least
that many (and they are still coming in).  What a waste of a lot of people's
time a resources ...  

Of course Mr. Babak Sehari had a "few" items in his mail-box, too.  Since I
was Cc'd to many mailings I KNOW he got a lot of "innovative ideas" on what
to do with his posts.    

-- 
Steven L. Kunz
Networked Applications | Usenet News Admin.
Iowa State University Computation Center, Iowa State University, Ames  IA
INET: skunz@iastate.edu     BITNET: gr.slk@isumvs.bitnet
From: trsnyder@mcs.drexel.edu (Bob Snyder)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: contacting anatolia.mn.org
Date: 5 Jan 93 19:34:05 GMT
	<1993Jan5.152506.9886@sci34hub.sci.com>
Organization: ASCI

In article <1993Jan5.152506.9886@sci34hub.sci.com> gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston) writes:

   Have your feed site do it; I just had uunet fix ours to read:

	   sci34hub/anatolia,zuma,feline:groups,...

   so I don't have to waste the bandwidth bringing the articles in here
   to drop. I expect a noticable decrease in telephone charges....  :-)

   Feline is the site becker posts from, apparently.

Won't this also drop any articles that pass through those sites on their way
to you, no matter what site posted the article?

I don't know how well connected those sites are, but it's still something that
would make me think twice about doing this.

Bob
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: Because, "news.admin.policy" is afraid of ASALA/SDPA/ARF terrorists.
From: sbrack@jupiter (Steve Brack)
Date: 11 Jan 93 15:12:59 EST
Distribution: world
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

[ Article crossposted from soc.history] 
[ Author was sera@zuma.UUCP ]
[ Posted on Tue, 05 Jan 93 20:17:32 EST ]

In article <1993Jan5.042748.2629@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene) writes:

>The point is that neither Jesus nor the Turkish-Armenian feud
>are appropriate topics for the "soc.culture.jewish."

A very true statement.

>( BTW, have you considered creating an altnet newsgroup
>  "alt.politics.turkey-armenia" to house the dispute? )

Yes. However, "news.admin.policy" is afraid of the ASALA/SDPA/ARF
terrorists to create a newsgroup called "soc.culture.xsovietarmenia".

 "...that more people have to die..." 

                    SDPA <91@urartu.UUCP>

  "Yes, I stated this and stand by it."

                    SDPA <255@urartu.UUCP>


*non-topical text deleted*
[End crossposted article]

	What is meant by this?  

--
Steven S. Brack        |"But the greatest of|   sbrack@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu
2021 Roanwood Drive    | these is love."    |  STU0061@uoft01.BITNET 
Toledo, OH  43613-1605 \____________________/    brack@uoftcse.cse.utoledo.edu 
+1 419 GR4 1010        |  MY OWN  OPINIONS  |   sbrack@maine.cse.utoledo.edu 
Xref: sparky news.admin.policy:1109 news.groups:25411 news.newusers.questions:5794
From: jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,news.groups,news.newusers.questions
Subject: Re: Need procedure for forming new news group
Followup-To: news.newusers.questions
Date: 12 Jan 1993 14:50:34 GMT
Organization: AS&M Inc
	<1993Jan11.143937.21450@dmp.csiro.au>
Reply-To: J Lee Jaap <J.L.Jaap@larc.nasa.gov>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cmb00.larc.nasa.gov
In-reply-to: lachlan@dmp.csiro.au's message of Mon, 11 Jan 1993 14:39:37 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.143937.21450@dmp.csiro.au> lachlan@dmp.csiro.au (Lachlan Cranswick) writes:

   If I could save a few keystrokes and latch onto this
   post a similar request for the way of forming a new
   newsgroup.

BTW, news.announce.newsgroups does not exist.  News.announce.newgroups
is moderated and for the purpose of posting RFDs and CFVs and is not
for questions or discussion.  Note Followup-To.

Read the article with Subject: How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup
periodically posted in news.answers, news.admin, news.groups,
news.announce.newgroups, and a few others.  If it's expired at your
site, you can get it via anonymous ftp from rtfm.mit.edu in
/pub/usenet/news.answers/creating-newsgroups/part1 .

If you don't have ftp, send mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu
with message
send usenet/news.answers/creating-newsgroups/part1

Send message `help' for more info about the mail-server.

-- 
J Lee Jaap <jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov> +1 804/864-2148
employed by, not speaking for, AS&M Inc, at NASA LaRC, Hampton VA 23681-0001
--
J Lee Jaap <J.L.Jaap@LaRC.NASA.Gov> +1 804/864-2148
    employed by, not speaking for, AS&M Inc, at
         NASA LaRC, Hampton VA 23681-0001
From: jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (J. Furr)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: Newsgroup creation guidelines
Date: 5 Jan 93 17:59:24 GMT
Organization: Virginia Center for Lemur Fandom (subscribe to alt.fan.lemurs TODAY)

In article <8310@lib.tmc.edu> jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
>In article <1993Jan04.172717.43474@watson.ibm.com> strom@Watson.Ibm.Com (Rob Strom) writes:
>>In article <1hi13aINNitm@gaia.ucs.orst.edu>, stanley@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley) writes:
>
>Rob, I admire your persistence, but John is much like Dave Hayes: the more you
>argue, the more he argues, and you'll never, ever, ever win.

You should talk, Zippy.

Joel "Abusing pinheads since 1967" Furr
jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,news.announce.newsgroups,news.groups
From: lachlan@dmp.csiro.au (Lachlan Cranswick)
Subject: Re: Need procedure for forming new news group
Organization: CSIRO Division of Mineral Products, Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 14:39:37 GMT


If I could save a few keystrokes and latch onto this
post a similar request for the way of forming a new
newsgroup.

The intended group is sci.diffraction   This would 
be an unmoderated group dealing with any diffraction
topic, i.e., X-ray diffraction, neutron diffraction,
hardware, analysis, software, results, etc.

As there is usually Powder/Single Crystal
X-ray diffractometers on most
university campuses and it is a common tool
for minerals analysis, I am hoping there may be an interest
in this.

Thanks in advance,  Lachlan.

-- 
  Lachlan Cranswick  -  CSIRO             _--_|\  lachlan@dmp.CSIRO.AU
  Division of Mineral Products           /      \ tel +61 3 647 0367
  PO Box 124, Port Melbourne 3207        \_.--._/ fax +61 3 646 3223
  AUSTRALIA                                    v 
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,news.admin.misc
From: phardie@nastar.uucp (Pete Hardie)
Subject: Re: Babak Sehari postings -- iastate.edu is dealing
Organization: Digital Transmission Systems, Duluth, GA.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:06:08 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.134410.19494@samba.oit.unc.edu> ses@sunSITE.unc.edu (Simon Spero) writes:
>In article <3F2XwB5w165w@status.gen.nz> jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) writes:
>>skunz@iastate.edu (Steven L Kunz) writes:
>> 
>> Thanks for the note. What indeed is being done to Mr Babak Sehari ?
>> I trust he is being suitably dealt with?
>> 
>Think of something innovative...
> maybe a 40hr course on Turko-Greek relations taught by Mutulu?

C'mon....

Just reading the syllabus takes 40 hours....

-- 
Pete Hardie:  phardie@nastar  (voice) (404) 497-0101
Digital Transmission Systems, Inc., Duluth GA
Member, DTS Dart Team           |  cat * | egrep -v "signature virus|infection" 
Position:  Goalie               |
From: jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: contacting anatolia.mn.org
Date: 5 Jan 1993 21:20:54 GMT
Organization: AS&M Inc
	<TRSNYDER.93Jan5143405@vf0031.mcs.drexel.edu>
Reply-To: J Lee Jaap <J.L.Jaap@larc.nasa.gov>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cmb00.larc.nasa.gov
In-reply-to: trsnyder@mcs.drexel.edu's message of 5 Jan 93 19:34:05 GMT

In article <TRSNYDER.93Jan5143405@vf0031.mcs.drexel.edu> trsnyder@mcs.drexel.edu (Bob Snyder) writes:
   In article <1993Jan5.152506.9886@sci34hub.sci.com> gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston) writes:

      Have your feed site do it; I just had uunet fix ours to read:

	      sci34hub/anatolia,zuma,feline:groups,...

   Won't this also drop any articles that pass through those sites on their way
   to you, no matter what site posted the article?

Yes, but there should be paths around them (for all but very few if
they are sole upstream nodes for some leaf sites).  The articles
will probably get to you anyway by other routes.
--
J Lee Jaap <J.L.Jaap@LaRC.NASA.Gov> +1 804/864-2148
    employed by, not speaking for, AS&M Inc, at
         NASA LaRC, Hampton VA 23681-0001
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: ses@sunSITE.unc.edu (Simon Spero)
Subject: Re: Babak Sehari postings -- iastate.edu is dealing
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 13:44:10 GMT

In article <3F2XwB5w165w@status.gen.nz> jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) writes:
>skunz@iastate.edu (Steven L Kunz) writes:
> 
> Thanks for the note. What indeed is being done to Mr Babak Sehari ?
> I trust he is being suitably dealt with?
> 
Think of something innovative...
 maybe a 40hr course on Turko-Greek relations taught by Mutulu?

Simon
-- 
Hackers Local 42- National Union of Computer Operatives, Chapel Hill section
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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tarfiles hold you down" - The Internetworkale | DoD #612 | Tel: +1-919-962-9107
Xref: sparky news.admin.policy:1063 news.admin.misc:986
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,news.admin.misc
Subject: Re: Babak Sehari postings -- iastate.edu is dealing
From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 93 19:03:13 GMT
Organization: The Z*NET Global News Gateway in Parnell New Zealand.

skunz@iastate.edu (Steven L Kunz) writes:

> I promise you all it IS being handled.  He started an automatic posting
> process for what was probably every newsgroup on the net.  He started it
> from multiple machines and let it run.  The "postmaster" here had at least
> 50 email messages off the net regarding this, I (as news admin) had at least
> that many (and they are still coming in).  What a waste of a lot of people's
> time a resources ...  
> 
 
 Thanks for the note. What indeed is being done to Mr Babak Sehari ?
 I trust he is being suitably dealt with?
 
 From one of the 50 email senders ...


 Jon Clarke                                                     Z*NET Pacific
 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  jonc@status.gen.nz           GEnie: J.Clarke6        Hexagon: HSBC NZM EBD
  Phone: (+649) 358-5589       IFNA : 3/772:105        GEM    : NZM CABLES
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     "Practise safe computing ! Wear a write protect tab!" jc 1988
From: hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: contacting anatolia.mn.org
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:14:59 GMT
Organization: negligable

In article <TRSNYDER.93Jan6143825@vf0031.mcs.drexel.edu> trsnyder@mcs.drexel.edu (Bob Snyder) writes:
>This seems unacceptable for me personally, when you could drop an unknown
>number of articles, and a kill file (and a smart control system for becker)
>will do just as well.

One difference, Bob.  A kill file will prevent you from seeing the articles,
cutting anatolia out of the feed will prevent you from wasting time on
the phone downloading them (assuming you have a UUCP feed).


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Philosopher and plowman			|
each must know his part			|	-Richard Hartman	
to build a new mentality		|	hartman@uLogic.COM
closer to the heart!			|

Newsgroups: news.admin.policy