HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: v080jq9a@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Thomas J Pastor)
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: Re: SFII-CE Match-UPs and Ratings
Date: 12 Dec 92 15:36:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Dec12.051512.20049@leland.Stanford.EDU>, inkblot@leland.Stanford.EDU (Thomas Calvin Cannon) writes...
>In article <Bz4opM.DoH@news.cso.uiuc.edu> caine@dcl-nxt01 (Caine B Schneider) writes:
> 
>[ratings and commentary deleted]
> 
>>I do agree with your Sagat ratings.  I've seen many a Ryu or Ken (including
>>yourself) go down to Sagat.  Personally, I play Sagat to beat Ryu or Guile,
>>but vs. Ken seems to be more advantageous to Ken.  
> 
>Really?   I think it's the other way around; Sagat has a slight advantage 
>against Ken, and falls a bit behind Ryu.  The deciding factor is the
>difference between the two's fireballs;  Ken's recovery time is so slow
>that Sagat can jump over and smack him without having to anticipate the
>fireball.  Against Ryu, Sagat gets DPed.  So, a defensive Sagat can take out
>Ken without too much trouble.  
> 
>ON ANOTHER NOTE...
>------------------
> 
>Now that the 'Ryu fireball' thread has died down, how's about discussing 
>Sagat's low 'tigerball' trap.  I tried it for the first time today, and
>it seems to be just as (if not more) effective than Ryu's trap.  It's basic
>execution is exactly like Ryu's (i.e. stand about 3/4 of the screen away
>from your opponent when he's in the corner and assault him with a barrage
>of low tigers.)  Any comments?

 I tend to mix up high and low tigers.  This really screws up my opponents
since they have to anticipate the speed AND height of the oncoming tigers.

                                   --Thomas J. Pastor-- 
> 
>>Caine Schneider
>>
>---
>T. Cannon
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser)
Subject: I did the four hit DP combo!!!
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:12:04 GMT


   I did the four hit DP combo (actually, I should say *a* four hit DP
combo) the other day...

   I was playing Ken on classic and my opponent was a Chun Li. He jumped
in with Chunny and I blocked, then kicked him with a close roundhouse
(one kick up, one down, you know the one...two hits) and followed up with
a double DP...four hits.

   Of course, he was a complete newbie and didn't know how to block...

;-)


-- 
Richard J. Rauser        "You have no idea what you're doing."
rauser@sfu.ca            "Oh, don't worry about that. We're professional
WNI                          outlaws - we do this for a living."
-----------------
"Remember, no matter where you go, there you are." -Dr.Banzai
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: tmorris@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au (Tim Morris)
Subject: Re: Being a Master?
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 10:54:07 GMT

>What makes one a master at SF2 or SF2CE?
>Could you masters out there please explain!

$$$!
From: jbw@ponder.csci.unt.edu (WEST JASON BRUCE)
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: Re: Ken's 4-Hit Touch of Death
Date: 13 Dec 92 19:31:32 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas, Denton

In article <Bz6uH3.HsD@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> bodom@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Brian Odom) writes:
>>In article <Bz2BvF.ACu@news.cso.uiuc.edu> el27166@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (This Space for Rent) writes:
>>>jbw@ponder.csci.unt.edu (WEST JASON BRUCE) writes:
>
>>>'Pedo:  If you don't jump into the air, you'll have to block the torpedo.
>>>        If you do jump into the air, you'll have to worry about landing
>>>        on it when you come down fromt he air.
>
>>   If you don't jump you have *several* ways to stop the torpedo.  If
>>you do jump into the air you several ways to knock him out of it.  If
>>you have time for neither of these you are in trouble - but this rarely
>>would happen for 2 out of 3 rounds.
>
>*Several* ways.  Why don't you name some of them?  I have no clue how you would
>stop a torpedo without jumping (yes, we know the DP works; you don't have to
>mention it)  How do you stop it by not jumping and you're far away?

   Well, for all characters you can just PUNCH!  Sure, it takes awesome
timing, but it can be done consistently.  You just need to pop him in the
head, no matter where you are.  If you know he is going to flame all the
"body projectile" characters can get to him before the flame starts.    
   Dhalsim, my man, can just fierce punch under it (duck it).  Sagat/Ken/Ryu
can dp.  Guile can razor kick.  So that's 5 with "special move" ground
counters.  Hmm, I would bet one of Balrog's well-timed sliding punches would
knock out Bison.  That's 6.  Vega can backflip through it and then triple-hit
into Bison, or anything else.  That's 7.  Well, I think you get the idea.
The point is, there are too many ways to beat the torpedo to list. 

Ciao...

                                                         - 
                                                - Jason

>-- 
>Brian T Odom
>
>"We are all manufacturers -- some make good, others make trouble, and still
>others make excuses."
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: robs@hardy.u.washington.edu (Robert Suh)
Subject: Re: Ken's 4-Hit Touch of Death
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 08:24:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.005522.2774@athena.mit.edu> cyu@athena.mit.edu (Erorppn Xrzavgm) writes:
>I'd much rather fight a Bison than Ken anyday.  If both characters are trying
>to throw while Bison's torpedo is blocked, the blocker almost always wins.
>Bison doesn't have much of a defense vs. jumping opponents like Ken does.
>Ken has 3 things going for him.
*(Excess verbiage deleted)*

Actually, M. Bison has a crouching Fierce, which is pretty effective.  
Not to mention that, he's fast enough on the ground, to walk under people.
From: rjking@acsu.buffalo.edu (Randall J. King)
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: Zangief help needed
Date: 13 Dec 92 19:42:03 GMT
Organization: UB

I have just started using Zang in the last couple of weeks, and I need some
help.  Is there a guide for Zang out there?  I still haven't got the SPD.  I
have gotten it a couple of times, but not predictably. :(  Any tips, combos,
strategies out there for Z?

Thanks all,
Sky King

signing off from the satelite of love.....           ___   _____  ___
	                                    |\  /|  |   \    |   /   \   |  / 
rjking@acsu.buffalo.edu                     | \/ |   \       |       /   | /
v050qrq3@cc.buffalo.edu	                    |    |    \      |    --<    |<
                                            |    |     \     |       \   | \
push the button Frank...                    |    |  \___|    |   \___/   |  \ 
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian)
Subject: Re: What's wrong with Honda?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:19:34 GMT

larsen@hellgate.utah.edu (Steve Larsen) writes:

>skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian) writes:
>: west@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Bruce West) writes:
>: 
>: >In article <jabernet.724268614@husc8> jabernet@husc8.harvard.edu (J. Abernethy) writes:
>: >>
>: >>	I have read several articles concerning sf2 on the net, and most
>: >>of them seem to be centered on Ken, Ryu, and Blanka.... But what's wrong
>: >>with Honda??? I've been using Honda for quite a while now, and the only
>: >>player who gives me trouble now is Guile. (that is, when he does his
>: >>forward sweep, blade kick if I jump, sonic boom if I don't).  Other than
>: >>that, the Pillsbury Doughboy is an awesome character.
>: 
>: >   What about the old fireball, rounhouse trip him as he jumps in.  Honda
>: >CAN'T jump a jab fireball (so I've been told and seen).  So if he jumps in
>: >he gets tripped.  How does he beat this?  Just curious...
>: 
>: >Ciao...
>: 
>: 	You cant.  Hehehehe...
>: 
>: 	Seth Killian
>: 

>  While it is true that Honda can't defend the sweep if he jumps, he can beat
>this quite easily.  Just stand about3 inches away.  If you opponent throws
>a fireball, roundhouse sweep him.  This is more effective if you sweep him
>while he is preparing the fireball, because then you don't take any damage;
>however, even if he already threw the fireball, you will trade damage in
>your favor.

	Wow.  I'm completely Flabbergasted!  Now I know what I've been doing
	wrong all these years with Honda!  I should have KICKED him!  
	Needless to say (I hope), this is a dumb solution.  Ken/Ryu should 
	not be fireballing if Honda is three inches away.  Honda sucks because
	he has no way to approach or get in on Ken, Ryu, Guile, or Blanka.
	There are probalbly others (I won't bother listing them here), but 
	these are the most commonly seen characters, all of which Honda loses
	badly to.  (Ok, Ok, a really good Honda can beat Blanka, but most
	Honda's never get a chance to get that good cause they are alawys 
	getting thrashed by Ken/Ryu and Guile).  Honda has a lot of strength
	and thats about it.  He is slow and has low priority.  His range in 
	itself is not a redeeming facet.  I won't go on with this, if you
	like Honda, enjoy him.  At least until a halfway decent Ken/Ryu comes
	a long and jab FB's you to DEATH!

		Seth Killian

>Steve
From: ar903@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert Taylor)
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: guile trap
Date: 15 Dec 1992 09:04:10 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


I don't know if this has ever been discovered or talked about, but I 
found a "trap" that guile can use to win, of course when not playing
masters.  First throw a jab sonic boom and follow it in if your
opponet jumps up or at you do a jumping roundhouse (you will usually hit first, but you may trade), and after you hit they will sometimes fly back and it
the sonic boom (two hits), or if they block the boom, jump and hit them with
a roundhouse.  After they jump or block, jump back and charge and repeat.
 
-- 
french hawk
ar903@cleveland.freenet.edu
International Snack Professionals
702-594-7322
From: hogue@cs.arizona.edu (Justin C. Hogue)
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: Re: Best Opening Moves
Keywords: Best Opening Moves
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:05:06 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson


In article <BzA3JA.Hqn@news.cso.uiuc.edu> skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian) writes:
>	in some cases, the whole round.  More specifically, what is a good
>	opening move against Bison?  Or Ryu/Ken vs. Guile?  Just interested
>	in opinions in general here, but please try to support them by saying
>	"DP at the very beginning, because if so and so does this then you
>	can just do that to counter..." or give some sort of reasoning.
>	Any thoughts?
>
>		Seth Killian

  I'll just use Zangief for an example....
*Against most characters, block.  Wait for them to do something.  Any stupid
  move like walking into SPD range can put you in an early lead.  If you
  do anything like jump, most of the other chars can make you look real
  bad.  Wait them out, look for a pattern or attack they rely on, and let them
  have it.
*Against Vega, walking back is good.  Enough time to react to all his fast 
  stuff, and if they go right for the screaming eagle you are in great shape
  to knock them out with a lariat or block.  Many Vega players will jump at
  you and then just hit the ground and throw, so walking back also puts some
  distance between you and him to avoid being thrown.
*Against Bison, life gets complicated.  Walking back is good, and a rather 
  unorthodox form is to jump at/away from him with a belly flop, as this
  will hit bison through the cheesepedo or the scissor kick.  Don't do things
  twice (but in that respect, don't "don't do things twice" twice.  make sense?
*feeling adventurous?  Do SPD right away.  If they walk forward, they get 
  grabbed.  Not very good, I do this when I'm tired and want to get off the 
  game.
--Jowfus
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: loverde@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (AstralWolf)
Subject: Re: Ken's 4-Hit Touch of Death
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 16:11:35 GMT

In <1992Dec12.071750.26451@teetot.acusd.edu> prock@teetot.acusd.edu (Big A) writes:

>But very easy to throw by undercutting the Ken Player.  By undercutting I
>mean walking under and throwing the fool.  BTW Bison also has a Neck Kick
>and a seven hit comb, which is a very deadly combination!
>
     I still contend that the seven hit combo is BS.  There is no way any
move after the scissor kick will hit.  I can see the four jabs and then
maybe being able to go into the scissor kick, but nothing beyond that is
a guaranteed hit.  But again I think you could only do 3 jabs before being
pushed too far back for the scissor kick to hit.  I have just started 
trying to learn how to play Bison, so will have a better understanding
of this later, but based on my experience VS Bison, I can always 
counter any move after the scissor kick.
-- 
   /|        /              / |      /       /  /-/  Can be reached on the
  / |  /--/ --- |/-/ /-\|  |  |  ^  /  /-\  |  |/    Astral Planes known as:
 /--|  \-\   |  |   |   |  |  | /| /  |  |  |  |      loverde@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
/   | \--/  /  /    \--/| /   |/ |/   \-/  /   /      jvl45017@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: el27166@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (This Space for Rent)
Subject: Re: How DO you counter Blanka's bite?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:42:17 GMT

cw21219@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Crying Freeman) writes:

>Hmm... Just wondering, has anyone found a consistent
>way to actually counter the bite? The other day,
>Cybergeek was playing against Blanka as Dhalsim, and
>he was getting ticked to death by Blanka. Ming is one
>of the best if not the best counter thrower around 
>here and he was getting chomped to death. Anyways,
>anyone know the key to countering the bite? 

In classic, any Blanka foolish (or desparate) enough to go for the
bite WILL get noogied to death.  The range of Dhalsim's extended throws
has been decreased so that the noogie tick doesn't work.  As a result,
counter-noogieing or counter-throwing Blanka is nearly impossible if
Blanka times it correctly.  

The key around that is not to let Blanka in in the first place.  I relied
too heavily on being able to counter-throw easily in the classic edition.
Just have to switch Dhalsim tactics for CE, is all.

>I haven't tried it, (Our 1P joystick has been kidnapped)
>but I was thinking, maybe you just have to get in closer.
>(block, then throw towards the opponent, I've mainly
>been trying to reverse throw...) Anyone have any 
>ideas to do this consistently? 

Guile has the same difficulty countering Blanka's extended range bite.
To effectively counter-throw, Guile must step forward, closing the range,
and then throw.  It still takes a gross miscalculation on Blanka's part
for this to be effective.

Remember how I dominated CE with Blanka when it first came out?  It's not
really because Blanka's bite got better, but because other characters'
throws got worse (Guile and Dhalsim IMO).  It's a shame, really, because
it used to be CHALLENGING to play Blanka effectively.  Now he's just a
bully, like Guile and Dhalsim were in classic.

>My question is directed at the situation where you have
>already blocked Blanka's jump attack, how do you counter?
>Obviously if you prevent this situation, you avoid it, but
>what if you are already in the standing block situation?

I'm clueless.  I let him come in several times, and I was 0 for several
times counter-throwing Blanka with Dhalsim!  How sad!

> Kenneth C. Wang	| University Of Illinois Champaign-Urbana	
-- 
Eu-Ming Lee (aka CyberGeek)                      el27166@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Guys with long sigs are just trying to compensate for something...
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: prock@teetot.acusd.edu (The Prock)
Subject: Re: Ken's 4-Hit Touch of Death
Organization: University of San Diego, Earth
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 07:45:41 GMT

In article <BzA0CJ.GB6@news.cso.uiuc.edu> skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian) writes:
>prock@teetot.acusd.edu (The Prock) writes:
>>In article <Bz7GtB.2sE@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> loverde@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (AstralWolf) writes:
>>>In <1992Dec12.005522.2774@athena.mit.edu> cyu@athena.mit.edu (Erorppn Xrzavgm) writes:
>>>
>>>   [Beginning of Bison debate deleted]
>>>
>	[Much more stuff deleted]
>
>>>get me wrong, the window of opportunity is very small, but vs a master with
>>>good timing, Bison is vulnerable at that point.  Of course vs lesser
>>>players, it often works since they either block at t his point, or try and
>>>do some normal move and get clocked by the rest of the PSEUDO COMBO.
>>>This has been my observation, and you can say that the Bison's here all
>>>suck, but I encourage you to go field test it.  I have been hit by a move
>>>after the scissor kick on rare occasion, but I attribute it to mistiming
>>>or screwing up the DP on my part.  Try it and see...
>>>
>
>>Agreed it is not hard to DP it once the timing is down.
>
>	A little shift of gears here isn't there Andrew?  At one point it 
>	was not widely believed that you could DP after the scissor kick,
>	but after you developed the timing, you could do it with some 
>	consistency... just a little something to consider before your next
>	vociferous claim that you simply can't DP out of Zangief "combos"...
>
>			Seth Killian

Now, now, now Seth.  I don't know what you're saying.  My entrance into
the Zangief combo "debate" was about the first time I've posted here
since the end of summer.  The other posts then were not about the 
Scissor Kick.  Besides I found out about the Scissor Kick delay in 
June of this year.  (Just after School let out).  So even if I did
brocast that information early in the summer I think I am allowed a 
repreive. 

Andrer Prock.
>
>>Andrew Prock
>
>>>-- 
>>>   /|        /              / |      /       /  /-/  Can be reached on the
>>>  / |  /--/ --- |/-/ /-\|  |  |  ^  /  /-\  |  |/    Astral Planes known as:
>>> /--|  \-\   |  |   |   |  |  | /| /  |  |  |  |      loverde@ux1.cso.uiuc.ed
>>>/   | \--/  /  /    \--/| /   |/ |/   \-/  /   /      jvl45017@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
>
>


Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: cw21219@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Crying Freeman)
Subject: How DO you counter Blanka's bite?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 07:23:56 GMT

Hmm... Just wondering, has anyone found a consistent
way to actually counter the bite? The other day,
Cybergeek was playing against Blanka as Dhalsim, and
he was getting ticked to death by Blanka. Ming is one
of the best if not the best counter thrower around 
here and he was getting chomped to death. Anyways,
anyone know the key to countering the bite? 

I haven't tried it, (Our 1P joystick has been kidnapped)
but I was thinking, maybe you just have to get in closer.
(block, then throw towards the opponent, I've mainly
been trying to reverse throw...) Anyone have any 
ideas to do this consistently? 

My question is directed at the situation where you have
already blocked Blanka's jump attack, how do you counter?
Obviously if you prevent this situation, you avoid it, but
what if you are already in the standing block situation?
k
-- 
 Kenneth C. Wang	| University Of Illinois Champaign-Urbana	
 			| Internet: c-wang@uiuc.edu			
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: mlm@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael McCool)
Subject: Re: Zangief and his throw combo
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: CSO Resource Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:09:26 GMT

kai chang (kchchang@remus.rutgers.edu) wrote:
: 
: 	How do keep holding on, I don't know.  I wish someone can tell me how 
: to keep holding on with Blanka's bite too!  Or how to do a standing flip 
: kick with Guile (I was told it was impossible)

Move the joystick left and right really quickly and hit the buttons fast also.
Beyond that just luck, correct me if I'm wrong and I'm sure someone will.

The best I've done with doing a standing razor kick, and this is really 
simplistic, is to just hold the joystick down while jumping or after getting
hit.  If you razor kick right when you get up or land, presto, standing
razor kick.  I don't think there's any other way, unless you're the computer,
or on a broken joystick.

: 	Any of you saw the guy after Bison in the old edition?  rumor said 
: there were one, but never saw one.  Rumor also said that you need to tie 
: with Bison on the second round to see him, but never did either.

Rumor.  Don't believe it.

--
 ____
/ oo \  Mike McCool 
\ .. /  mlm@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu
 ||||   
 \__/   "Well, you're certainly in touch with your anger."  --Frank Drebbin
From: holmes7000@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: Dhalsim vs. com. Z         
Date: 15 Dec 92 20:57:15 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

Does anyone have any hints on Dhalism vs. computer Zangeif on Ce?  Also who has
the comos list?
-Thanx
-Brando
From: ian@csc.liv.ac.uk (Ian Finch)
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: Re: Best Opening Moves
Date: 18 Dec 92 18:21:03 GMT
Organization: Knee Deep in Sky High
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Thomas Calvin Cannon (inkblot@leland.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
>
> Well, I'll take the easy one first.
>
> Guile vs. anyone under the sun
>
> SONIC BOOM
>
Well, there is one situation where there is a better move!  If Ryu or Ken
begin by throwing a fireball, do the fiercest somersault kick!  This evades
the fireball and knocks them over too.  I don't know if this works on CE,
'cos nobody starts like this anymore :-)

Cheers,
         Ian
--
 //                             //
 // ian@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk //
 //                             //
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: el27166@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (This Space for Rent)
Subject: Sagat's fireball trap
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 21:11:16 GMT

v080jq9a@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Thomas J Pastor) writes:

> I tend to mix up high and low tigers.  This really screws up my opponents
>since they have to anticipate the speed AND height of the oncoming tigers.

>                                   --Thomas J. Pastor-- 

Sagat's fireball trap is more of a psychological trap than Ryu's.  A trapped
opponent has two ways to become 'free' of Sagat's fireball trap:
1) jump over a low or high firebird
2) duck under a high firebird

There is only one way to become 'free' of Ryu's fireball trap.  That is
to jump straight up over it.

Of course, once you are 'free' the psychological part of the trap really
begins.  IMO, opponents have an easier time getting to the 'free' stage
of the trap in Sagat's than in Ryu's.

Ken/Ryu - short hurricane kick over a low firebird, either fast or slow.
Honda/Bison - Torpedo over low firebird
Sagat - Tiger knee over low firebird (If you're REALLY cool, you can
        tiger knee throught the high one!)
Guile - short razor over the low firebird... Guile has a tougher time with
        Sagat's firebird trap than Ryu's fireball trap.
Blanka - Walk forward under a high firebird or jump in with fierce/forward.
Chun Li - Jump straight up to get free.
Balrog - You're screwed.
Vega - Jump straight up.
Dhalsim - Jump straight up or forward and foot drill

Sagat certainly can get you into a fireball trap, but it's not as annoying
as Ryu's... except maybe for Guile :-)

-- 
Eu-Ming Lee (aka CyberGeek)                      el27166@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Guys with long sigs are just trying to compensate for something...
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2