HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: michalj@fuw.edu.pl (Michal Jankowski)
Subject: Re: Sexist language
Organization: Warsaw University Physics Dept.
	<1992Dec14.163456.9037@hobbes.kzoo.edu> <101955@netnews.upenn.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 10:37:05 GMT

>>>>> On 14 Dec 92 17:03:55 GMT, pezzillo@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Amy J. Pezzillo) said:

Amy> WRONG!!!!!  He *is * sexist when used to denote both genders, because
Amy> it indicates only ONE -- the male.  Seriously, when you hear "he," do
Amy> you EVER  think of a woman?  NO!!!  Consider the following statement:
Amy> "Every person is entitled to his right to have an abortion."  You
Amy> thought that sounded strange, because "he" automatically brought up
Amy> the image of men. 

Dear Amy, do you REALLY need a gender neutral pronoun to speak about
abortion? What is wrong with:
'Every woman is entitled to her right to have an abortion.'
(except perhaps that in my opnion she isn't).

  Michal Jankowski
From: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski)
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Sexist language
Date: 18 Dec 92 10:47:58 GMT
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <1992Dec15.183449.21038@news.eng.convex.com> tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen) writes:
>From the keyboard of mix@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu:
>:	Oh God, not this!  Can't everyone just accept the generic "he" 
>:and get on with their lives?!
>
>Because it sucks for lots of reasons, and "they" is perfectly fine.

Given that "they" is rejected by many native speakers, it is bloody
obvious that it is not at all perfectly fine.  It beats me how anyone
can state the opposite.  In fact, it appears that "they" sucks,
whatever that may mean.  I don't know whether there are lots of
reasons for that, but there must be reasons.

-- 
 `D'ye mind tellin me whit the two o ye are gaun oan aboot?' (The Glasgow
Ivan A Derzhanski  (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk; iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu)    Gospel)
* Centre for Cognitive Science,  2 Buccleuch Place,  Edinburgh EH8 9LW,  UK
* Cowan House, Pollock Halls, 18 Holyrood Park Road, Edinburgh EH16 5BD, UK
Xref: sparky soc.college:5808 alt.usage.english:9797
From: mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi)
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Sexist language
Date: 21 Dec 92 00:45:27 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <92355.112019HERSCH@auvm.american.edu> <HERSCH@auvm.american.edu> writes:
>In article <BzJq56.B95@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>,
>mmmirash@banshee.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi) says:
>>
>>It will surprise you that *some* feminists *do* wish to replace
>>history with herstory.
>
>Published references, please, showing some feminists proposing to
>replace the *word* "history" with the *word* "herstory".
>
>H.
>
Hold on please....my univ. library was closed today.   :(


                                                           Mandar.

-- 
"Imagine there are no countries. It isn't hard to do. Nothing to kill or die 
 for, and no religion too. Imagine all the people living life in peace.
 You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope that some
 day you'll join us, and the world will be as one." - John Lennon.
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Comments on fraternities (was Re: Comments on G**** life)
From: censtad@nic.gac.edu (Topher the Gustie)
Date: 13 Dec 92 15:22:08 -0600
Reply-To: censtad@nic.gac.edu   
Distribution: world

In article <1992Dec12.001651.29951@cdf.toronto.edu>  writes:
> >
> Why are you assuming that any woman would be upset to see you naked? 

No I'm upset that a woman would see ME naked.  Is it ok with you PC cops  
if I feel this way?  Gee thanks.
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
From: mmmirash@banshee.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi)
Subject: Re: Sexist language
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 06:48:32 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <1992Dec19.173552.5472@news.eng.convex.com> tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen) writes:
>From the keyboard of iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski):
>:Given that "they" is rejected by many native speakers...
>
>It's only rejected by hypercorrective, overeducated grammarians.  You
>don't like it because you were TOLD not to like it.  It springs naturally
>to the lips of the the rest of the world.  It's perfectly natural.  Just
>ask anybody on the street: I'll bet they'll agree with me.
>

Take a spot poll, Tom. Find how many native speakers find the following
exchange of conversation natural :

         "Is Joan there?"
         "No, they went to the market."


                                                               Mandar.   
-- 
"Imagine there are no countries. It isn't hard to do. Nothing to kill or die 
 for, and no religion too. Imagine all the people living life in peace.
 You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope that some
 day you'll join us, and the world will be as one." - John Lennon.
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: creating a greek newsgroup
From: censtad@nic.gac.edu (Topher the Gustie)
Date: 13 Dec 92 15:26:21 -0600
Reply-To: censtad@nic.gac.edu   
Distribution: world

In article <1992Dec12.003050.807@cdf.toronto.edu>  writes:
> Isn't there already a group called soc.culture.greek?
> 
> Oh, you mean fraternities and sororities.  Why didn't you say so?
  


And even more Politcally Correct speech, my aren't you just the darling of  
the entire PC movement to close down open minds.
Xref: sparky soc.college:5811 alt.usage.english:9799
From: mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi)
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: They (was Re: Shaking people up with "she"? (was Re: Sexist language))
Date: 21 Dec 92 01:02:42 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <1992Dec20.170133.17006@news.eng.convex.com> tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen) writes:
>From the keyboard of mmmirash@banshee.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi):
>:In article <1992Dec19.181833.22444@cdf.toronto.edu> g9rwaigh@cdf.toronto.edu (Rosemary Waigh) writes:
>:>
>:>I know no one my age who rejects the semantically singular "they", except
>:>perhaps in extremely formal writing.  
>
>:This is either ignorance or an attempt at being dense. 
>
>Why must you be so insulting, Mandar?  She asked a legit question, and your
>response was to question her intelligence.  What a useful and considerate
>tactic.
>
She *knows* that there are people who DO NOT accept "they" or "their"
in the examples that I have illustrated. Yet, she pretends to claim
that they do. Isn't this either ignorance or an attempt at being dense?

>:Rosemary, MANY
>:persons on the soc.college newsgroups rejected the use of "they" as
>:in "That person isn't late, are they?" and *most* of them are of your
>:age. What *is* your age anyway?
>
>Even that last question has an unnecessarily nasty tone on it.  
>If you read her sig, you'd probably be able to make a good guess.
>
No, I can't. Blame the freshman debate for that!  :)
Besides, even if I make the assumption that undergraduates belong to
the 16-21 age group, there *are* undergraduates who DON'T. When
claiming that age (her age, to be precise) was a factor, wasn't it her 
responsibility to state her age?

>The question remains a good one.  Is age a factor?  Social class?
>Education level?  
>
>I seriously doubt that any native speaker unschooled in pedantry
>will question the following construct:
>
>    Anyone who arrives late must wait until the first movement
>    is completed to take their seat.
>
Maybe he won't question it. But he'll surely be confused as to
why the writer didn't use "his or her" instead of "their". In
fact, many persons will deem it to be grammatically incorrect.

>Notice that this isn't much different from your sentence.  With
>the right preamble, your construct is fine.  What are you going to
>say, "he" instead?  I think not.  
>
Why not? That person isn't late, is he?
It has *always* been that way.
>
>--tom

                                                         Mandar.
-- 
"Imagine there are no countries. It isn't hard to do. Nothing to kill or die 
 for, and no religion too. Imagine all the people living life in peace.
 You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope that some
 day you'll join us, and the world will be as one." - John Lennon.
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: cuz@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Cousin It)
Subject: Re: Sexist language Re: Comments on F/S (was Re: Comments on Gxxxx Life)
Organization: Silly People who take things out of context
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 10:13:46 GMT

g9rwaigh@cdf.toronto.edu (Rosemary Waigh) writes:

|There is nothing wrong with being an upper middle class white male, my
|husband was one

	What is he know, a poor black woman? :)

Cousin It                                         cuz@cs.brandeis.edu
           Special Productions Director and Engineer
WBRS 100 FM, Waltham Ma.                   WBRS@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
All Genre Music Programming            Free Live Music-4 times weekly
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: davidh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (David Klein)
Subject: Re: Simon's Rock of Bard - shooting
Organization: Brandeis University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 01:37:02 GMT

This is just what has been on the news: Some guy there from Montana
went nuts, and shot 6 people, killing a professor, a student, and
wounding four other students. Students at Simon's Rock said that he
was "troubled". Some claimed that he was also fairly racist, hating
almost all minorities. His father denied the allegations of racism.
  Tonite it was reported that he said that he would plead not-guilty 
to all counts. 
  When he was arressted, he was carrying a semi-automatic rifle,and he
was wearing a shirt which had the words "Sick of it all" on it. It is
the name of a band.
-- 
David H. Klein        davidh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu      Brandeis University
"The single most creative thing that a person can do is run a company."     
                           -Jerry Sterner   author of Other People's Money
 <The opinions reflected herein have no relation to Brandeis University>
Xref: sparky soc.college:5770 alt.usage.english:9752
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 13:05:47 EST
From: <HERSCH@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Sexist language

In article <1992Dec18.145019.22343@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>,
J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger) says:
>
>But 'history' is considered sexist by some feminists simply because it
>begins with the letters h-i-s.  Haven't you heard the word 'herstory'?

Now this is merely silly, and if you thought about it for a minute
before popping off you'd probably realize it. I doubt if you can find
a single person in the entire world who thinks that the *word*
"history" is sexist. What many people have noticed, however, is that
the *discipline* of history has been, historically, sexist, in that
it leaves out women almost entirely. Yes, there are a few exceptions,
owing to the very rare accidents that produced anomalies such as
Elizabeth I, Catherine de Medici, Maria Theresia, and a handful
of others. And indeed, the "social history" that has dominated
the discipline for decades now has made a systematic attempt to
recapture the experience of ordinary people, very much including
women. But very little of that kind of work finds its way into the
textbooks used in high schools and in college Western Civ or
World History courses.

The term "herstory" is a jocular way of pointing all of this
out, which it does with rather remarkable concision. I know of
no one who proposes it seriously as a replacement term for "history".
Do you?

H.

Herschel Browne
"The" American University
Xref: sparky soc.college:5508 alt.usage.english:9469
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Sexist language
Date: 14 Dec 92 03:54:58 GMT
Reply-To: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Organization: Columbia University

In article <1992Dec14.002848.29714@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>
>>> But "freshman student at the University of Pennsylvania, class of 1995"
>>> has a couple of dozen or so syllables.  While "first-year" has two.
>>> Gee, comparing apples and oranges is fun!
>
>>Of course, just saying 'first-year' doesn't specify which year the
>>student will graduate.
>
>Neither does "freshman"... 8-)

True, but "freshman" indicates that the student is in the first year of his
or her undergraduate tenure.  At a major university, a first year student
cound be an undergrad, a law student, a medical student, etc.

>>> >I refuse to waste so much energy to change
>>> >from using a normal, widely accepted, only considered offensive by people
>>> >who have too much time on their hands term to a twice as long one.
>
>>> So you have no objections to replacing "chairman" with "chair"?
>
>>Only if I can sit on the laps of people who replace the word 'chairman'
>>with 'chair' -- isn't one supposed to sit on a chair?  :-)
>
>I think Charles Dickens would have objected, unless you're really 
>quite cuddly.  The usage is common in _Pickwick Papers_.

"Chair" never bothers me.  I use both "chair" and "chairman" depending
on circumstance.  If I'm talking casually, I might say, "She's chair
of that new committee."  But if I'm announcing it at a speech, I'd
certainly say, "Introducing the new chairman of the search committee."
I'd only introduce the new chair if it were a furniture show.

I find it funny.  Those students in the first year of their
undergraduate education still call themselves freshmen, even at
Barnard.  Female heads of committess still call themselves chairmen.
This isn't a situation, as is the case with "African American," where
a group is deciding what they wish to be called.  The "Freshman"
business is being decided by people who obviously are getting paid
too much and doing too little.  They should stop wasting their time
and let the freshmen call themselves whatever they want.


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
From: coxc0056@ucselx.sdsu.edu (Riyadh Al-hajmoosa)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re:  help selecting a school
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:33:39 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: San Diego State University Computing Services

faust@vpnet.chi.il.us (Chad Lawson) writes:


>I am in my third year at a two-year school, and I am dying to transfer,
>but before I can I need to know where to go.  But with a major in
>Computer Science and a minor in Theatre it's hard to find a school that
>does both and is relativly cheap.

>Does anyone know a school that meets my needs?

>Please let me know what you can find.

>Thanks,
>Chad FAUST Lawson

>         Chad Lawson       |                                             
>        708.420.0977       |    "Imitate the action of the tiger.     
>    5 S. 464 Sherman Ave.  |Stiffen up the sinews, conjure up the blood.
>     Naperville IL 60563   |Disquise fair nature with hard-favored rage. 
>    faust@vpnet.chi.il.us  |   Then lend the eye a terrible aspect!"     
>   faust@oaknet.chi.il.us  |           -Shakespeare, Henry V 
>      faust@apres.UUCP     |                                            


	Try San diego state Univ., the computer science departmant is good 
	in acadamics, but really ( I mean REALLY) old hardware. Plus the drama
	dept. is supposed to be really good.

	Good luck.

							Riyadh Moosa
							SDSU-Chemistry, CS.
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
From: mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi)
Subject: Re: Frosh (was Re: Sexist language (was...
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 01:40:48 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <1992Dec20.233457.25282@cdf.toronto.edu> g9rwaigh@cdf.toronto.edu (Rosemary Waigh) writes:
>In article <BzJv4r.EB7@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> mmmirash@banshee.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec20.064116.19686@cdf.toronto.edu> g9rwaigh@cdf.toronto.edu (Rosemary Waigh) writes:
>>>I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, Mandar.
>>>"Persons" does *not* include animals.  To include all species of animals,
>>>use the word "animals" (which includes people too).
>>                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Compare that to the usage of the word "men" (which includes women too)   ;)
>>Now WHY did you add that, if the meaning of animals is unambiguous?
>
>Because the meaning of animals is not unambiguous; to some people it means
>only non-human animals.  This leads to all sorts of tiresome qualifications
>when trying to write, say, animal rights literature.
>
Aha! The "unambiguous" writer caught red-handed! There *is* a phrase
which is unambiguous in this context - "living beings". So, from now
on, we should use "living beings" when we mean "animals".

>>You cleared up the context, didn't you? That's because some people
>>don't consider people to be animals. Similarly, there is NOTHING wrong
>>with clearing up the context when using the word "man".
>
>However, in the case of human beings, we are fortunate to have many
>unambiguous terms to include people of both genders, making the sexist use
>of "man" especially pointless and undesirable.

So you *do* agree with me. The *use* of man is sexist, not the word
itself. AND, the people who *use*/interpret it incorrectly are sexist.
Yes, the *sexist* use of "man" is pointless and undesirable. But the
"non-sexist" use of man isn't.


                                                          Mandar.
-- 
"Imagine there are no countries. It isn't hard to do. Nothing to kill or die 
 for, and no religion too. Imagine all the people living life in peace.
 You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope that some
 day you'll join us, and the world will be as one." - John Lennon.
Xref: sparky soc.college:5762 alt.usage.english:9747
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Frosh (was Re: Sexist language (was...
Date: 18 Dec 92 15:42:57 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <BzDIIu.G26@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>, mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi) writes:
> Coming back to your question, no doubt you wanted me to answer "men". 
> Well, as I said earlier, "men" is used to indicate "men" and "women"
> as well. The predominant usage is to indicate the male species, of
> course. 

You mean vir sapiens sapiens as opposed to femina sapiens sapiens. Or should
that be vir insipiens. Hmmm... (Dons daydreaming cap) If all sexist men did
actually belong to a different species it wouldn't be long before equality of
the sexes came about.
-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   For Sale: Posts in British Government. Suit
wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk    |   outgoing American. Highest bids accepted.
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Sexist language
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 23:12:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.190214.26980@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger) writes:
>
>> >An exercise in futility. "Woman" encapsulates "man", as does "humankind"
>> >"mankind". As Tim S. pointed out, if "his" were "its", "this" would be 
>                 ^^^
>> >"tits"!  :) 
>Actually that's Ted S. -- I was the one who originally posted it.

I wouldn't brag about that.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Comments on fraternities (was Re: Comments on G**** life)
From: serhienk@cobber.cord.edu (David Serhienko)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:14:20 GMT
Organization: Concordia College, Moorhead, MN

In article <1992Dec10.105742.2783@gacvx2.gac.edu> censtad@nic.gac.edu    writes:
>to walk somewhere naked and possibly see a woman.  What so a co-ed house  
>would demand that everyone act as they would around their Mom or Dad or  
>brother or sister?????
 ^^^^^^^    ^^^^^^

	Isn't that the point of a Greek Oragnization?  To treat each other
like brothers/sisters?  Just my $1.298

David W Serhienko
serhienk@cobber.cord.edu
"Go ahead.  Sue."

Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Subject: Re: Sexist language
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 16:00:35 GMT

In article <BzACqt.40D@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi) writes:
>
>You're absolutely right! Changing words will do little to efface
>prejudices in the minds of men. (yes, men - which includes women) :)

If "men" is as gender-neutral as you claim, why do you need to specify
that in *this* case, you mean it to be inclusive, not exclusive?  Or
is your "DEPENDING ON CONTEXT" not as clear as you would like?

Now if you'd writing "in people's minds", there would have been no
confusion . . .

       The Rhealist - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself
Xref: sparky soc.college:5623 alt.usage.english:9601
From: J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger)
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: PC language
Date: 16 Dec 92 16:34:03 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0b1@newshost.dartmouth.edu

Except that colleges are seen as the bastion of Political Correctness.

--Ted Schuerzinger
email: .zed@Dartmouth.EDU
"I should have known it would be bad vodka when all the label said was
'Russian Vodka'."
Xref: sparky soc.college:5753 alt.usage.english:9739
From: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski)
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Sexist language
Date: 18 Dec 92 10:13:27 GMT
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <1992Dec14.172421.2007@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu> mix@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.171017.2005@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu>, mix@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes:
>> 	Oh God, not this!  Can't everyone just accept the generic "he" 
>> and get on with their lives?!
>		    |----------->or is it "his life"?!?!		

Since the referent of "everyone" is really plural (_cf._ German "alle",
French "tous", Russian _vse_, all of which are grammatically plural),
"they" with "everyone" as antecedent seems to work much better than
"they" referring to a single person of unspecified sex, for speakers
of the variety of English which used "he" as generic singular.

-- 
 `D'ye mind tellin me whit the two o ye are gaun oan aboot?' (The Glasgow
Ivan A Derzhanski  (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk; iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu)    Gospel)
* Centre for Cognitive Science,  2 Buccleuch Place,  Edinburgh EH8 9LW,  UK
* Cowan House, Pollock Halls, 18 Holyrood Park Road, Edinburgh EH16 5BD, UK
Xref: sparky soc.college:5524 alt.usage.english:9486
From: briand@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Brian D Diehm)
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Sexist language
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:38:29 GMT
Reply-To: briand@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM
Followup-To: soc.college
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

]>Why be kind? ;->  I think we should call them all freshlings.  It's PC;
]>neither masculine nor feminine, but it still has that derogatory potential so 
]>important when labelling freshmen. :-)
]NO NO NO
]freshmenchen! (from a friend who takes intro Yiddish)

I would think that "untermenschen" expresses the idea quite nicely.

-Brian
--
Brian Diehm
Tektronix, Inc.                (503) 627-3437         briand@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM
P.O. Box 500, M/S 19-286
Beaverton, OR   97077
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english