HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ddfr@quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)
Subject: Re: HELP! name searching.
Reply-To: ddfr@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 06:58:28 GMT


"Not all of the names of characters in period stories were borne by
real people.  "Kvedulfr"  from Egil's Saga means "Night Wolf" or
werewolf. This is NOT a name that a real Norseman would be proud to
bear." (Lothar)

Your translation is correct, but what is your reason for believing
that the name "Kveldulf" was not actually used? I believe Egil is
generally regarded as a historical figure (if not, the author of
Egilsaga was a great poet as well as a great novelist), and Egilsaga,
like the other family sagas, as a historical novel--fictionalized
details but based on real history. So Kveldulf may have been--I would
say probably was--a historical figure.

David/Cariadoc
From: pwr@jab.tucson.az.us (Patrick Reed)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Devices on Disk
Keywords: Heraldry, armorial, database
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 22:39:57 MST
Organization: Just Another Bbs. Tucson, AZ

Volfred quotes Frederic:

> Could the person who posted about the CoA information on disks please send
> e-mail to me, I lost the post somehow and my College may be interested.
 
  Milord, you seek Tadhg, who is at Internet address:

        tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org

Let me know if you are unable to contact him.  I have a copy of his 
message reference the armorial online.
 
Volfred
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: Re-joining the SCA as a Bandit
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 00:10:12 GMT

In <uplink.724757799@cwis> uplink@cwis.unomaha.edu (Axel Rose) writes:

>	My question, to you knowledgeable Lords & Ladies, is this:
>Is it possible to join the SCA and not join the local Barony?  In this,
>I imagine I'll be sort of a Bandit, not owing fealty to the local 
>Baron, and could still be a part of the peerage (hey, Robin Hood
>got away with it, and according to SOME legends, he's period!)

	Yes, you can do that.  Don't swear fealty, and at local events
proclaim yourself a visitor from <wherever>.  It can be done, and has
been done more than once.  Any awards can still be given (save for
knight, since that entails swearing fealty), and can even be given to
a subject of another kingdom.  Friends and I travel to the Middle as
often as we do to Calontir events, and we are both awarded in both
kingdoms.  Furthermore, a Middle subject moved to the East, and she
was very specific in announcing that she would always remain a subject
of the Middle despite geographic location.  So far as I know, the Middle
still considers her a subject.

	Really, though, it seems to me that it's not Lonely Tower you're
upset at, but of certain people in Lonely Tower who were or are in
positions of power.  Travel a few hours north or south will place
you in different kingdoms, and a few miles east will place you in
my barony.  From my canton I have made Lonely Tower in two hours and
ten minutes.  You should be able to make Coeur d'Ennui in Des Moines,
Iowa in roughly that time.

	I always hear of politics in the SCA, which generally translates
into somebody not liking somebody else and griping about it.  Frankly,
when I didn't want to play with the locals I went elsewhere and had a
great time (the fun content of the locals went down, and I was never
incredibly interested in just workshops and classes).  For a while, I
just needed a break from the SCA as I was becoming "burned out" on it.
It seems that 99% of the problems we find in the SCA are ours alone,
and it behooves each person to solve them on a personal rather than a
society-wide basis.  Think about it.

	Erik Aarskog, Axed Root, Calontir

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<  "This isn't an answer, it's a pagan dance around a midnight fire  >
<   written in intellectual runes." -- Rich Young                    >
From: dickeney@access.digex.com (Dick Eney)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: SCA FGeography
Date: 21 Dec 1992 03:31:35 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

SUBJECT: Re: SCA Geography

As for in-period contacts with the Japanese, remember that the
closing off of Japan and China was a reaction to the aggressive
merchandising -- to put it gently -- of the Elizabethan and early
Jacobean periods.  (Not just English, but these are the time-
periods we're most likely to know offhand.)  The Japanese, as a
f'rinstance, were definitely known as well as, say, the Tatars; the
Spanish employed Japanese mercenaries in the Philippines during
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mcdaniel@grex.ann-arbor.mi.us (Tim McDaniel)
Subject: Markland / Storvik / Ponte Alto, Atlantia
Organization: GREX Public Access Unix +1 313 761 3000
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:05:54 GMT

I will be in Northern Virginia from Dec. 22 - Jan. 3.  That's in the
Ponte Alto and Storvik area, and near Markland.  Will there be any
events in the area in that time?

-- 
Daniel of Lincoln, Burgh of Cynnabar / Tim McDaniel
Internet: mcdaniel@{grex,m-net}.ann-arbor.mi.us, mcdaniel@adi.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ag1v+@andrew.cmu.edu (Andrea B. Gansley-Ortiz)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Children in Justinian's camp (NOT)
Date: 14 Dec 92 16:59:17 GMT
Organization: Information Networking Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Good gentles I greet you well.

I found Justinian's post to be intriguing. A question for Justinian. If
for some reason, I asked to camp with you since I have a number of friends
from your region, would you let me do so? Mind you, I'm not sure whether you
know my age or not, so this question presumes that I look in my early to mid
twenties.

Actually, I'm probably with Justinian on this issue. I did my babysitting
stints when I was a teenager, and I do the SCA for my greatest personal 
enjoyment. I haven't lived or dealt with children for a long time and if
I'm on vacation, I want to be as comfortable as I am at home. That means
no children. (It also means no smoking, which is the kind of camp some of
my friends and I put together last year.) There were two mature 22 year
olds and the rest were 25 or above.

For me, it would really depend on how well I know the family. Most of the
families I do know, I'm not close enough to the people to want to live with
their children. This is probably changing since I have four good friends who
had children within the last year and a half, and two other good friends who
have one on the way. 

Now I consider most people in their early twenties a bit on the childish 
side. Most of my friends are in their late twenties to mid thirties. I 
generally get along better with those who are a little older than me.

As for the few gentles in their early twenties who are upset at Justinian
for his "artificial, arbitary" rule, does your public upsetness make his
decision seem less or more wise?

Written the Monday after the Annunciation of Our Lady.

Su segura servidora,
            Esmeralda
From: dgreen@thor (David Greenebaum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heraldic references...
Date: 15 Dec 1992 19:46:55 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.berkeley.edu

Greetings from Bjalfi!

Quoth Lin:
>(grrrr)  Please tell, folks:  
>	Does YOUR library "discourage" ILL?
>	Does it *refuse* you the service unless you can
>	  demonstrate that it bears directly on a) your
>	  job or b) your major, like my charming employer?
>	  (Heaven forefend any of us might want to know
>	  anything outside our major/need-to-know)
>They (our ILL staff) tell me this is "nearly universal" at
>state universities, but it's the first time I ever heard
>it.  (Especially odd to hear it from a school that calls
>itself "the university of a thousand years.")  

BOOOO HISSSSSSS!!!!!!  As a librarian wannabee, I find this policy
hideous.  Here in the UC system, I've never had any problem with IL-L
except that it's often too slow to get you the books by the time you
need them.  The ONLY (nearly) justifiable argument for refusing
interlibrary loan is lack of funds; and then the librarians d--n well
better be able to come up with an acceptable alternative (copies
of selected pages, microfiche, _some_thing).

---------------------  Bjalfi Thordharson/College of St. Katherine/Province of
 |\  | |\  |\  |// |       the Mists/Principality of the Mists/West Kingdom
 | > | |\\ | \ |/  |   David Greenebaum/University of California/Berkeley, CA
 |<  | | \ |   |   |   dgreen@athena.berkeley.edu, dgreen@garnet.berkeley.edu
 | > | |   |   |   |
 |/  | |   |   |   |   "I make mistakes, but I am on the side of good -- by
---------------------  accident and happenchance." -- the Golux
From: bwilson@eng.auburn.edu (Brian Scott Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: On the nature of armor....
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:32:32 GMT
Reply-To: bwilson@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering


After looking over the articles on this thread, it seems to me that we have 
one major point of contention that no one seems to have addressed. 

Which is better?

Period contruction techniques----

       Or 

Period materials-----


Now the fact is that the aluminum lammellar armor is of a more period construction,
but the typical mail in the SCA is a more period material, (if galvanized mild
steel wire can be said to be a more period than aluminum.

Also we must answer this question:

Which is better?

A period outward appearance of your persona---

       Or

Meeting SCA standards with period materials and techniques---

In my mind the top answers are the best for me. But everyone has their opinion.

Brian
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Aluminum Armour
Date: 16 Dec 1992 17:46:56 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <BzBpMu.CG6@news.cso.uiuc.edu> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:
"Also remember that it was until the early 20th century that Aluminum was
"as expensive as a precious metal [until the modern refining process was
"invented c.1900].  
"
"So if you wear Aluminum armor, remember that its price (even if it was
"refined in the Middle Ages) would be equal to a small kingdom! :)

Welll... maybe not.  You'll recall the scene in LEST DARKNESS FALL where
Padway, newly arrived in the sixth century, tries to change his modern
Italian money into local coinage.  Some of the coins are bronze; some are
silver; no problem.  But then the following exchange (paraphrased) ensues:

"What's this stuff?  Tin?"

"Nickel."

"What's that?  Some kind of funny metal they've got in your country?"

"That's right."

"What's it worth?"

"Uh---"  (pause while Padway tries to invent some fantastic value for the
stuff)

"Well, it doesn't matter, because I couldn't take it.  I couldn't find a
market for it."

So your anachronistically refined aluminum might not be worth even a small
cottage.....


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin		Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West			UC Berkeley
Argent, a cross forme'e sable		cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu

Disclaimer:  UCB and the Cozzarelli lab are not responsible for my
opinions, and in fact I don't think they know I have any.
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Primitive FireArms
Date: 18 Dec 1992 21:04:35 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <7861@monmouth.edu> c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON) writes:
>In article <724389963.F00001@ocitor.fidonet> Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton) writes:
>> Handgonnes are definitely period, since they are first seen somewhere 
>> in the mid-14th, ....
>
>	I believe that matchlocks preceeded wheellocks.  Somethings tells me
>that cannon preceeded handguns, also.

I wonder, however, whether handguns may have been very _uncommon_, even
if they existed, until very _late_ period.  Because there's this little
dialogue in _Hamlet,_ see, where Osric is telling Hamlet about some spiffy
swords "with their carriages."

"Their WHAT?" says Hamlet.

"Their carriages--you know, their hangers."

"Well, when we can carry cannon at our belts, then we can say "carriages";
till then, I wish you'd say "hangers."

(paraphrased, obviously)

Now, whether Shakespeare meant that the word "carriages" really meant big
wheeled things fit for carrying big heavy cannons, or whether he really
was not familiar with guns small enough to carry on your person, I'll
leave to the experts....

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin		Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West			UC Berkeley
Argent, a cross forme'e sable		cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu

Disclaimer:  UCB and the Cozzarelli lab are not responsible for my
opinions, and in fact I don't think they know I have any.
From: flockoff@lincoln.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Looking for armorial ftp site???
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:32:31 +1300

Sorry for using bandwidth. Just a quick question.
Does someone have they address of a site I can ftp a copy
of the armorial from. Thanx.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Grooby - Lincoln University - New Zealand
Replys to s.bell@lincoln.ac.nz or s.bell@ono.lincoln.ac.nz
I'm not sure exactly which 8*} mark "Attention P.Grooby" - Thanx again!
From: Godfrey de Shipbrook <jlee@smylex.UUCP>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: To Dafydd Rhys ap Llewellyn
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 23:44:44 EST
Organization: Shipbrook Software  (Tampa, FL)

Dafydd:

I tried replying to your message, but it bounced.  I'll try a couple of 
different permutations, but just in case it got munged on the way to me,
could you send me what your address is *supposed* to be?

                                        - G

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Net:  Jeff Lee / jlee@smylex.uucp / jlee%smylex.uucp@tscs.tscs.com     |
| SCA:  Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook / Wyvernwood, Trimaris                 |
|       Per pale azure and argent, a clarion counterchanged or and gules |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
              That man that hath a tongue, I say, is no man
              If with his tongue he cannot win a woman.
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: 8th century persona
Date: 18 Dec 1992 17:09:51 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <85536@ut-emx.uucp> robear@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Jay Michael) writes:

[He wants to be an Anglo-Saxon visiting the realm of Charlemagne]

Well, you certainly can.  While there, be sure to drop by and pay your
respects to your countryman, Alcuin of York, in charge of the Emperor's
educational program.

There was lots of backing-and-forthing between England and the Continent
in that period.  Hordes of pious Saxons made the pilgrimage to Rome,
to the extent that there was a special district in Rome for them to
stay in, where there is still a street called Trastevere in Sassia
[the street on the far side of the Tiber in the Saxon district].

Somebody is bringing out a series of persona pamphlets one of these times,
and I believe there's one on Building your Own Anglo-Saxon.  If you can't
wait till then, e-mail me and I'll see if I can give you some tips.   (I
live in the latish ninth century myself and Charlemagne died about the
time I was born, but things haven't changed that much except for all these
pesky Vikings roaming about.....)

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin		Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West			UC Berkeley
Argent, a cross forme'e sable		cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu

Disclaimer:  UCB and the Cozzarelli lab are not responsible for my
opinions, and in fact I don't think they know I have any.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Aluminum Armour
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:40:45 GMT

In article <DOCONNOR.92Dec17235840@potato.sedona.intel.com> doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor) writes:
>But
>peopel who make up the name "Sir Coke-Can" to denigrate someone
>in period-style armour made of aluminium aren't furthering periodness : 
>they're engaging in non-productive verbal bullying for reasons
>I do not care to speculate on. 

I casual conversation with a local worthy last night, I have come
across something you might wish to consider for a finish on your
armor...

One of the problems I see--and the one that is most likely to result
in the remarks that you rightly deplore--is that an anodized finish
doesn't really *look* like lacquer.  Lacquer, to my eye, gives an
illusion of depth that is lacking in most other finishing techniques.

Apparently there exists an epoxy that can be baked onto aluminum that
does give the correct look and is readily available.  The primary use
is on aircraft--especially the leading edges of wings.  According to
my informant it dos not flake off or chip under SCA use on armor and
is flexible enough to conform when dents are made.  In am given to
understand that it is widely used in Trimaris.  Perhaps one of our
fellow Rialtans from that realm can supply additional details.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |            You!
510-823-5447                 |    Out of the Gene Pool!
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |
From: comptec92024@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: rattan sword-making
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 06:23:06 GMT


>(stuff Del. to save space) 
> the rules say that you can't do anything to the sword that changes its
flexablity and it is apparent that shrink rap does (my applogies, I deleated
the proceding line by accident but I beleive this was the intent)
> that with a vengence. Apparently, someone once had a shrink-tube
I > encased sword, and they'd been using a long while, and one day in combat
> the top part became a missile weapon: the rattan had been beaten to a pulp,
> but the shrink tube was still holding the shape. This isn't safe.
> 
> All this may just be local practice, so check with your marshalate !
> --
> Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There do seem to be a number of local variations and interpretations of 
harder than "normal" ratan swords. I tend not to see many of them becouse of
the cost of the shrink rap. But with the increased cost and decrease of the
rules. I have been hit by shrink rap sword and they do not seem to hit any
harder then "normal" swords. I don't see many of them becouse of the cost of
the shrink rap. But expect with the increasing cost and decreasing availablity
of ratan that I will see more of them.

I would like to point out that we change the flexablity of the weapons all the
time when we rap them in yards worth of strapping and duck tape. If you want
real head denter get a hold on some 2" ratan. Plain it down so you have a 2" by
1.25" club. You won't even need to cover it up with anything, now practice for
a few years and you will be able to put dents in 12 gage.

I guess what I trying to say is not to put the onus for safty on the weapon but
on the people use them.
From: Brian.Russell@f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Brian Russell)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Date: 19 Dec 92 07:44:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.724825876.AA00000

The Cornishman's name was Carminow, and yes he was allowed to keep his 
arms (and his head).
                              Ciaran
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: comptec92024@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: Aluminum Armour (was Re: HELP WANTED RE KINGDOM AWARDS)
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:39:50 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.182719.8757@pbhya.PacBell.COM>, whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
> In article <DOCONNOR.92Dec16090456@potato.sedona.intel.com> doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor) writes:
>>this
>>armour will protect me in war, which is my primary reason for
>>making it : the authenticity issue is secondary.
> 
> But should it be?

You bet it should be!

Do any of you guys who are against this poor fellows aluminium armor either
make your own armor or even use armor? If you do couldn't your time be better
spent either making a suit of hand drawen, forge welded chain (should take you
well over 300 Hours) practiceing your snaps, rather than saying nasty things
about a suit of armor you have not even seen?

- Did someone say titanium ? I always wanted to make a suit just like Darth
Vaders'! Then I could make one of those Vulcan polearms like Spock used in the
one where he was going to get married----- Come on guys I was just jokeing----
Help! Help! The authetisity police are after me! Help! Helllpppp-------

Mackenzie
From: pwr@jab.tucson.az.us (Patrick Reed)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 19:16:41 MST
Organization: Just Another Bbs. Tucson, AZ

Volfred quotes David:

 . . .
> treasure.  I've got billions of pieces of 'good' heraldry that the SCA's 
> Coa would never pass. They for instance have no sense of Ha-Ha.  The 
> plain fact that they are working on a computerized database and wouldn't 
> allow a device with a computer in it is a nice bit of ironic hypocracy on 
> their part.  Heck if they're so stuck on period this and OOp that then 
> the least they can do is be heralds in period and do it all by hand with 
> quills.  
 . . .
 
As with all things within the SCA, we must make decisions as a group on 
which direction we take our society.
 
I have been in the SCA for twelve years, and I know what you mean about 
the avoidance of humor within the CoA; however, it is our duty as 
armingers to creatively design blazonry which will pass the CoA, only to 
have them discover afterward the humorous counter-blazon we actually 
intend to use.
 
Perhaps you are familiar with "Seven vert ewes displayed."  My suggestion 
is to start dreaming them up, then submit them.  It is fantastic to see 
all the variety that people can come up with.
 
The number of combinations possible under the present system make SCA 
heraldry complex enough.  With all the complaints about 
approval/rejection times, I suspect that a more complex system would be 
unwanted.
 
Lord Volfred
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bwilson@eng.auburn.edu (Brian Scott Wilson)
Subject: Re: Rattan Sword-making
Reply-To: bwilson@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:06:28 GMT


In article 144749HZS@psuvm.psu.edu, Therion <HZS@psuvm.psu.edu> () writes:
>A rattan sword only lasts you four months? Good Gods, man, how hard are you
>folks hitting each other?  (only 1/2 smiley here.)
>
>Actually, I'll make the guess that either 1) your source of rattan is coming
>up with some *really* lousy stuff, or 2) you're using something like a
>telephone pole wrapped in carpet for your pell.

Another problem that many may face is that they fight a great deal and have this 
nasty habit of hitting people in the head. I normally use a 34" sword and when I 
looked this year I had six 24" shortswords which were the leftovers from this
years fighting. By the way that comes out to one sword every two months.

Also I come from the lightest hittng kingdom and am known to hit relatively light
myself. I just land a lot of blows. Figure I fought twice a week, mid week fighter
practice and weekend event (and/or sometimes Sunday fighter practice if I got back 
early enough). I fight for 3 to 4 hours average per practice or event (thats 
actual fighting time not standing around and talking). so a sword can be in use
28 hours a month so my swords are withstanding 56 hours of abuse before thay
give up the ghost. Not too bad! :)

Your mileage may vary.

Sir Brian    
Princeps Meridies
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet