HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: u920065@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Dean Bailey)
Subject: Re: Sorcerer's age
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 22:58:26 GMT

In article <BuMHtq.JsF@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v125p7c5@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Michael Lamanna) writes:
> 
> 
> 	Sorcerer's are not immortal.  They could die.  The fact that they posses
> the ability to prevent such a thing leads to extremely long life spans.  
> 
> 	Therefore, Riva needs an heir to the thrown incase of the fact that
> Belgarion dies.  He may also get sick of ruling and want someone else to rule.
> 
> 	As far as immortality goes, Eddings disproves that such a thing exists. 
> He does this by killing god's who every one know are 'immortal'.
> 
> 
> 						Michael Lamanna
> 					     University At Buffalo
> 					       Civil Engineering
> 
> 	"It is easier to get forgiven than permission."
> 

  It has been a while since I read the books but I seem to remember
Belgarath saying something to the effect that they are immortal in
regards to aging, but the can be killed or commit suidcide like 
the owners of the two ruins in the vale (Not Zedar's)

As to the killing of the god, he was the child of dark and the books seem
to suggest that the prophecies were more powerful than the gods.

 Dean

(-:
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: 2120158@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU ()
Subject: Re: Questions
Organization: school of Mathematics UNSW
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 02:06:13 GMT

In article <BuBGvG.MoE@acsu.buffalo.edu> v124jw4y@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Benjamin R Pierce) writes:

    lotsa stuff deleted.
>and then there was the business of needing an heir.  If he is immortal,
>it's likely to be pretty hard on him, as he will have to watch his wife
>and possibly most of his children grow old and die while he remains young.
>Any thoughts on this?
>
>                                                   --Ben

  You must remember that C'Nedra is a Dryad- and as such lasts as long as her
tree does (and with Belgarions help that could be a long time!!), and all of
their children (with the exception of Geran- Garions son), they will be girls
and hence Dryads.  
   So with the exception of maybe Geran,all of the family are very near to if
not immortals. (By the way, Benjamin Pierce mentioned something about
immortality and heirs, but I would like to point out that they are not mutually
exculsive as what about Polgara and Belderan.)

Matthew
UNSW.Sydney
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: scijs2@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (SCIORTINO JONATHON)
Subject: Other Authors
Summary: Katherine Kerr's Novels
Keywords: kerr
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 23:15:27 GMT

Why not try some of Katherine Kerr's novels? I have read everything she has put out so far, and I'm still impressed. Especially her Deverry series - Daggerspell, Dawnspell, etc., and her new one, A Time of Exile.


Organization: Freshman, CIT general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:08:36 -0400 
From: "Jeffrey E. Byrne" <jbcj+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Poledra as the Child Of Light
	<1992Sep10.064448.4185@gucis.cit.gu.edu.au>


In a recent posting...


>If you recall, at the battle of Vo Mimbre it was a wolf who uncovered the orb
>that was placed in the shield, causing Torak to cringe and be stuck with a
>sword.  BTW, how did the orb get placed in the shield in the first place?
>After all there was no one around who could touch it.

They just pushed the shield into the orb really, really hard... :)
I don't know either and it has been bugging me for a while too.



-Perhaps two swallows suspended it on a vine between them...

				Just a thought,
					
						Jeff
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: tao@potato.princeton.edu (Terry Tao)
Subject: Re: Poledra as the Child Of Light
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 20:01:05 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.192819.7332@cis.ohio-state.edu>, cantor@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (scott eric cantor) writes:
|> In article <9209151825.AA17842@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu> asher@news.cis.ohio-state.edu (Marnita Asher) writes:
|> >In article <195959INN98@disaster.Germany.EU.net> you write:
|> >>In article <1992Sep9.173326.58742@cc.usu.edu>, gehri@cc.usu.edu (Gehri Grimaud) writes:
|> >>> BTW, how did the orb get placed in the shield in the first place?
|> >>> After all there was no one around who could touch it.
|> >>
|> >>As far as I know all childs of light were able to touch the orb of Aldur
|> >>(Garion, Errand) and as a child of light in the battle of Vo Mimbre Poledra
|> >>should also be able to handle the orb. May be she placed it to the shield and
|> >>that was her task there. This is only my personal guess, not a strong statement
|> >>;-)
|> >
|> >Now I'm confused.  I thought only the Rivan line, not the Child(s) of light
|> >could touch the Orb.  Errand was able to touch it because of his complete
|> >innocence.
|> >
|> >Come to think of it, Poledra was of the Rivan line, after she married Riva.
|> >Hmmmm.
|> >
|> >Marnita
|> >
|> 
|> I'll be the first (of many, I bet 8) ) to correct this.  Beldaran, Poledra's
|> daughter, married Riva.
|> 
|> 	The discussion itself raises an interesting question though.  Was
|> Errand able to touch the Orb only because of his future as Child of Light?
|> Clearly, since the Malloreon was not written when Errand touching the Orb
|> was conceived, it was Eddings' intention that Errand be an innocent.
|> But the second series at least raises the idea that only those who were to
|> be the Child of Light could touch the Orb.  It would explain the Vo Mimbre
|> problem.  A related question might be whether or not having been the Child of
|> Light or being destined to be the Child of Light confers any benefits or
|> distinguishes a person.

I don't think you get any special benefits from being DESTINED to be a Child of light or dark, however when either Prophecy starts preparing you for the job (like the Dark prophecy did to Zandramas) then you start getting these super-powers.  Maybe the hidden seed of Riva did it, but that of course raises more contradictions; for example, the Orb would have been so happy at the touch that it would have notified Torak that a Rivan was on the loose, etc.
 
Also, someone had to bung the thing off the big sword.
 
Another thing about benefits of being destined to be a Child of Light: the prophecy would prepare you with a few genetic goodies when you are born, I suppose, like Garion's sorcery, or Erionds innocence.  Others get hit with it (like Zandramas) after they are born.


Terry (no, I haven't got a postscript yet).
From: sjsmith@cs.umd.edu (Stephen Joseph Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Gemmell (was Re: Authors Other Than Eddings)
Summary: This is a good thread.
Date: 9 Sep 92 15:52:49 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Maryland at College Park

HISC9016351D@LUST2.LATROBE.EDU.AU (MAMMONE,Robert) writes:
>> 	Other favorite authors are: Raymond Feist, Robert Jordan,
>> Tolkein (of course), Kurtz, Kerr, Glen Cook, Steven Brust, ...
>> and the list continues.  I'm always looking for new authors, so
>> suggestions are welcome.
>> 
>You simply have to read some of  Stephen Donaldson's books.  All the main
>characters are flawed, emotional cripples, making it far more interesting
>reading and character interaction.

I couldn't really get into the one of his books that I tried to read,
but you're welcome to give it a go.  "All right," I was quoted as saying,
"we *know* the main character is an anti-hero, already!"


>Also, for the best fantasy writer, better
>than Eddings, mind you, is David Gemmel, a British author.  Cheers.

A damn fine author and damn impossible to find in the U.S.A.  I took 
advantage of a London trip to buy _Legend_, _The King Beyond the Gate_,
and _Waylander_.  The only David Gemmell ever officially in print in the
U.S.A., to the best of my knowledge, was _The Jerusalem Man_ [good.]

I was, however, lucky enough to stumble across _Legend_ in a Penguin
bookstore in Boston, MA, so you might take a stab at it.  [I then loaned
it out and it was *never* returned, thus I had to replace it.]

Anyway, having babbled on, let me review the books for those
interested: they're all good.  _Legend_ is the best of the lot, but
_The King Beyond the Gate_ is by far the funniest: it contains a line
about apples and death which had me rolling on the floor laughing.
[You'll know it when you see it.]

If you can get David Gemmell's books, by all means do so, they're worth
reading.  However, if you live in the U.S.A., I wouldn't go to the trouble
of calling the U.K. and having them shipped for a king's ransom---they're
not THAT good.

- Stephen



Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: rodney@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au (Rodney Campbell)
Subject: Re: Gemmell (was Re: Authors Other Than Eddings)
Organization: AOTC - CSSC
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 04:49:57 GMT

sjsmith@cs.umd.edu (Stephen Joseph Smith) writes:

>HISC9016351D@LUST2.LATROBE.EDU.AU (MAMMONE,Robert) writes:
>>> 	Other favorite authors are: Raymond Feist, Robert Jordan,
>>> Tolkein (of course), Kurtz, Kerr, Glen Cook, Steven Brust, ...
>>> and the list continues.  I'm always looking for new authors, so
>>> suggestions are welcome.

>>You simply have to read some of  Stephen Donaldson's books.  All the main
>>characters are flawed, emotional cripples, making it far more interesting
>>reading and character interaction.

I found Donaldson's first series very hard to get through though his newer
stuff is a little better.

>>Also, for the best fantasy writer, better
>>than Eddings, mind you, is David Gemmel, a British author.  Cheers.
>If you can get David Gemmell's books, by all means do so, they're worth
>reading.  However, if you live in the U.S.A., I wouldn't go to the trouble
>of calling the U.K. and having them shipped for a king's ransom---they're
>not THAT good.

I too like Gemmel, How about Janny Wurts (did some combined novels with
Ramond E Feist plus a number of solo novels).

				     				Rodney...
-- 
     Rodney Campbell - AOTC    |Email : rodney@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au
   Advanced Network Products   |Snail : Level 1, 18-20 Orion Rd, Lane Cove West
 Customised Software Solutions |  -  PO Box A226, Sydney South 2000, Australia.
        Centre - Sydney        |Phone : +61 (0)2 911 3123   Fax: +61 2 911 3199
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: asher@news.cis.ohio-state.edu (Marnita Asher)
Subject: Re: Poledra as the Child Of Light
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 05:00:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.064448.4185@gucis.cit.gu.edu.au> you write:
>gehri@cc.usu.edu (Gehri Grimaud) writes:
>
>>In article <avalon.715878054@coombs>, avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed) writes:
>
>>If you recall, at the battle of Vo Mimbre it was a wolf who uncovered the orb
>>that was placed in the shield, causing Torak to cringe and be stuck with a
>>sword.  BTW, how did the orb get placed in the shield in the first place?
>>After all there was no one around who could touch it.
>
>They just pushed the shield into the orb really, really hard... :)
>I don't know either and it has been bugging me for a while too.
>
>-- 
>          ___       ___  __   ___  ___   __
>         (__  (  ) (__  |  | (__  | | | |__| 
>         ___)  \/  (___ |  | (___ | | | |  | @gucis.cit.gu.edu.au        
>                       

THEORY:

Remember that the Orb is fairly intelligent.  Perhaps it was possible to
explain to it that it needed to get to the battle, and maybe it let Brand
touch it, only to transport it.

Marnita
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: boek@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (Christopher Boek)
Subject: Re: Authors Other Than Eddings
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 23:18:28 GMT

HISC9016351D@LUST2.LATROBE.EDU.AU (MAMMONE,Robert) writes:
> 	Other favorite authors are: Raymond Feist, Robert Jordan,
> Tolkein (of course), Kurtz, Kerr, Glen Cook, Steven Brust, ...
> and the list continues.  I'm always looking for new authors, so
> suggestions are welcome.

someone-else@whose.name.i.cant.remember (S Else) writes:
> You simply have to read some of  Stephen Donaldson's books.  All the main
> characters are flawed, emotional cripples, making it far more interesting
> reading and character interaction.  Also, for the best fantasy writer, better
> than Eddings, mind you, is David Gemmel, a British author.  Cheers.

And what about the Gormenghast trilogy by Mervyn Peake. It was written
circa 1955 and is classic fantasy literature. His style is inimitable,
and VERY imaginative. The third book is kind of incomplete because he
went mad while he was writing it. The 3 books are: Titus Groan, Gormenghast,
and Titus Alone. Vivid characterisation at its finest.

Chris.

--
|Christopher Boek                               boek@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU|
|  Dept ElecEng, University of Melbourne,  Parkville Vic 3052 Australia |
|_____"Anybody remotely interesting is mad in some way or another"______|
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: vaughn@nuustak.csir.co.za (Vaughn Ravenscroft)
Subject: Re: Other Authors
Organization: Infotek, CSIR
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 05:52:13 GMT
Keywords: kerr

If you're looking for something a little different try
Michael Scott Rohan's "Winter of the World" series.  Three
books; "Anvil of Ice", "The Forge in the Forest" and
"The Hammer of the Sun".  The first is probably the best.

Vaughn
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: cantor@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (scott eric cantor)
Subject: Re: Poledra as the Child Of Light
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 19:28:19 GMT

In article <9209151825.AA17842@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu> asher@news.cis.ohio-state.edu (Marnita Asher) writes:
>In article <195959INN98@disaster.Germany.EU.net> you write:
>>In article <1992Sep9.173326.58742@cc.usu.edu>, gehri@cc.usu.edu (Gehri Grimaud) writes:
>>> BTW, how did the orb get placed in the shield in the first place?
>>> After all there was no one around who could touch it.
>>
>>As far as I know all childs of light were able to touch the orb of Aldur
>>(Garion, Errand) and as a child of light in the battle of Vo Mimbre Poledra
>>should also be able to handle the orb. May be she placed it to the shield and
>>that was her task there. This is only my personal guess, not a strong statement
>>;-)
>
>Now I'm confused.  I thought only the Rivan line, not the Child(s) of light
>could touch the Orb.  Errand was able to touch it because of his complete
>innocence.
>
>Come to think of it, Poledra was of the Rivan line, after she married Riva.
>Hmmmm.
>
>Marnita
>

I'll be the first (of many, I bet 8) ) to correct this.  Beldaran, Poledra's
daughter, married Riva.

	The discussion itself raises an interesting question though.  Was
Errand able to touch the Orb only because of his future as Child of Light?
Clearly, since the Malloreon was not written when Errand touching the Orb
was conceived, it was Eddings' intention that Errand be an innocent.
But the second series at least raises the idea that only those who were to
be the Child of Light could touch the Orb.  It would explain the Vo Mimbre
problem.  A related question might be whether or not having been the Child of
Light or being destined to be the Child of Light confers any benefits or
distinguishes a person.

	 _______________________________________________________
	|							|
	|	Shine on.........				|
	|			Scott <Crazy Diamond> Cantor	|
	|							|
	|	[<<<<<< cantor@cis.ohio-state.edu >>>>>>]	|
	|_______________________________________________________|
From: hennebry@plains.NoDak.edu (Michael J. Hennebry)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: The Losers
Date: 11 Sep 92 22:20:07 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network


Surprised to see no mention of The Losers here. The only thing it
has in common with the Belgariad, the Mallorean, and the Elenium
is the amount of conversation.

Set in the present, it involves a man who loses more than just a
leg in a train-car collision. The title losers are folks he watches
from his 'penthouse suite' in a welfare ghetto. 'Tis a bit on the
grim side for my taste. Although they involved more death and
destruction DE's series seemed happier tales. One can argue about
whether tL ended happily.

I expect a lot of people will like it.  A lot of folks like the
Unbeliever series, which is much grimmer than tL.

-- 
Mike   hennebry@plains.NoDak.edu
"I still thing it's garbage, but beautifully cooked."   --  TP on TP
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: g92k4260@ru.ac.za (Bryan Kilian)
Subject: Re: Questions
Reply-To: csbk@alpha.ru.ac.za
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 09:24:21 GMT

Benjamin R Pierce (v124jw4y@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu) wrote:

> 
> I don't know...I kept getting the impression throughout the series that
> Eddings couldn't quite make up his mind whether or not Belgarion was 
> immortal.  He continued aging after becoming a sorcerer, for one thing, 
> and then there was the business of needing an heir.  If he is immortal,
> it's likely to be pretty hard on him, as he will have to watch his wife
> and possibly most of his children grow old and die while he remains young.
> Any thoughts on this?
> 
Belgarath kept aging too... As I recall he came to the vale as a boy as
well. And Cenedra is a dryad. She lives as long as her oak. I don't think
they'll have problems with this ageing thing. The business about the heir is
a problem though. 

My pretty devalued 2 cents worth

Bryan

/////////////////////////: csbk@alpha.ru.ac.za ://////////////////////////
// Bryan Kilian        // This universe never did make sense, I suspect //
// Rhodes University   // that it was built on government contract.     //
// South Africa        //                            - R. A. Heinlein   //
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
   Disclaimer: This message is a product of my own warped imagination
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: age of sorcerors
From: crreadle@miavx2.ham.muohio.edu
Date: 14 Sep 92 11:09:43 EDT
Organization: Miami University, Hamilton campus

I think that it doesn't matter as it appears to me that sorcerors are
effectively immortal anyway.(at least where age is concerned

thanx

      -juggler
From: millerbe@maxwell.physics.purdue.edu (Barry E. Miller)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Vo Mimbre
Keywords: poledra, orb
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:31:40 GMT


	How did the ORB get into the shield Brand bore?  I seem to recall
that Belgarath stated that he had "a frustrating time explaining it all
to the Orb" so he could get it to understand what they needed to do with
it.  I figure that Belgarath convince the orb of the need, and touched
it himself.

Barry

PS>  Has anyone read "The Losers" yet?  I enjoyed it.  It had interesting
     notions of what is good and what is evil.

"Come with me where dragons rule the air
From: gehri@cc.usu.edu (Gehri Grimaud)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Poledra as the Child Of Light
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:33:25 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <avalon.715878054@coombs>, avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed) writes:
> millerbe@maxwell.physics.purdue.edu (Barry E. Miller) writes:
> 
> 
>>	How was Poledra the Child Of Light at Vo Mimbre.  I realize
>>at each meeting both the Child Of Light and Dark must be present.
>>Torak, obviously, was the Child Of Dark.  We learned in the Mallor-
>>eon, that Poledra was Child Of Light during the battle, yet in the
>>retelling of the Battle during the prologue of one of the novels
>>or in Belgarath's retelling, a wolf surrounded by its perpetual
>>blue nimbus was not mentioned.  Did Poledra just hang around in 
>>the background?  Was she in wolf form? Or human so no one would
>>notice her?  I can't picture Poledra, who confronted Zandramas
>>so vehemently, would have the ability to wait in the background
>>when the West was threatened. (Although she showed an abundance
>>of patience waiting for Belgarath to love her.)
> 
> I imagine it was all part of the task that was given to her when
> she departed the vale after giving birth to her twin daughters.
> It may well have been that she longed to do more than she did and
> make her presence more well known but was otherwise bound not to.
> If, as often happened, it was the will of the Spirit of Light that
> she not take any active party, then I doubt there would have been
> little she could have done.

If you recall, at the battle of Vo Mimbre it was a wolf who uncovered the orb
that was placed in the shield, causing Torak to cringe and be stuck with a
sword.  BTW, how did the orb get placed in the shield in the first place?
After all there was no one around who could touch it.

===============================================================================
Gehri Grimaud                           gehri@cc.usu.edu
Utah State University                   gehri@usu.bitnet
Office of Computer Services             tel. (801) 750-2392
UMC 4410
Logan, Utah  84322

            "Friends don't let friends do MS-DOS"
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: chapn2@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (CHANDRA PRIYA)
Subject: Re: Authors Other Than Eddings
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 06:56:29 GMT

From article <BKIRK.92Sep9125557@sneppe.iesd.auc.dk>, by bkirk@iesd.auc.dk (Brian Kirkegaard):
> 
> Another really great writer is Orson Scott Card, check out:
> 
> Alvin maker -
>   Seventh Son
>   Red Prophet
>   Prentice Alvin
> 
> they are really great too...

His other books are also excellent especially: Ender's Game and Speaker for the Dead.  Both high quality and also thought provoking!
For pure escapist value I'd highly recommend Terry Pratchett- he is one of the funniest fantasy writers that I've read in a long time.

	Priya.
From: bkirk@iesd.auc.dk (Brian Kirkegaard)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Authors Other Than Eddings
Date: 9 Sep 92 11:55:57 GMT
	<27566@life.ai.mit.edu>
Organization: Mathematics and Computer Science, Aalborg University


HISC9016351D@LUST2.LATROBE.EDU.AU (MAMMONE,Robert) writes:

>> 	Other favorite authors are: Raymond Feist, Robert Jordan,
>> Tolkein (of course), Kurtz, Kerr, Glen Cook, Steven Brust, ...
>> and the list continues.  I'm always looking for new authors, so
>> suggestions are welcome.
>> 
>You simply have to read some of  Stephen Donaldson's books.  All the main
>characters are flawed, emotional cripples, making it far more interesting
>reading and character interaction.  Also, for the best fantasy writer, better
>than Eddings, mind you, is David Gemmel, a British author.  Cheers.

Stephen Lawhead is also a fabulous writer. Check out the ``Song of
Albion'' series, book one: ``The Paradise War'', book two: ``The
Silver Hand'', more is (hopefully) on the way.

Other great books by S.L.:

The Pendragon Cycle -
  Taliesin
  Merlin
  Arthur

Another really great writer is Orson Scott Card, check out:

Alvin maker -
  Seventh Son
  Red Prophet
  Prentice Alvin

they are really great too...

Brian.

--
--

---------------------------------------------
Brian Kirkegaard
Department of Mathematics & Computer Science,
Aalborg University (AUC)
E-mail: bkirk@iesd.auc.dk
---------------------------------------------
From: lchang@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Aging and stuff
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:26:47 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

Okay, this is the theory I have about sorcerers and aging:

1). They age until a decent maturity level (unless, of course, they
don't discover their gift; then they die).

2). Belgarath looks old largely because he was hanging around Aldur all
those years. He looks like Aldur. Or at least, he face does.