HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: The null hypothesis  (was: Xanax)
Summary: It is always false
Date: 13 Sep 92 18:36:03 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <18t6q7INNs8i@cs.utexas.edu> turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin) writes:
>-*----
>In article <1992Sep10.211606.7486@cbnews.cb.att.com> jap@cbnews.cb.att.com (james.a.parker) writes:
>>> This is true [that someone making a claim has the burden of 
>>> evincing it]; however readers should note that it is equally
>>> true if the claims are that the cure is ineffective as well 
>>> as effective.

>In article <16446@pitt.UUCP> geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks) writes:
>> In science, the null hypothesis is assumed. ...

>I have to disagree with our inestimable neurologist.  From a
>purely scientific viewpoint, I think he is wrong, though for
>medical practice, it does not make that much difference.  (I will
>explain this below.)

>> ... It is up to those who claim the null hypothesis is false
>> to prove it so. ...

>In science, it is up to those who make *any* claim to prove it.

>The issues here can be subtle.  There are two distinctions that
>tend to get blurred.  The first is the distinction between
>(1) asserting the negation of a claim, (2) *not* asserting the 
>claim, and (3) asserting that the evidence for a claim is weak. 
>In science -- indeed, in any field requiring careful thought --
>these must be distinguished.

As stated, the null hypotheses is almost always false.  Even in the
cases where the null hypothesis may be true, as the speed of light
in a vacuum being constant, the procedures to test it do not do so,
but test something different.  Null hypotheses are needed, because
otherwise the situation is to complex to be able to proceed at all.

But in medicine, this is still not even the approximate problem.
Given enough data, the null hypothesis will always be rejected.
I do not need any data to tell me that saccharin affects the incidence
of cancer.  The question is whether this effect is enough to be important.
The answer to this question depends on the state of nature, and not on any
data.  

Whether a treatment should or should not be used depends on the truth, and
not on statistical significance levels.  One does not have the truth, so 
that calculations based on data must be used.  But these calculations are
not the customary calculations to accept or reject the null hypothesis, 
and these calculations, to be appropriate, should consider not only the
probabilities but the consequences.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
From: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Phobias, NLP, etc (was Re: Xanax)
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:32:45 GMT
Reply-To: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <t3ynlgq.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:

>He has juvenilized himself.

The English language - love it or leave it. Have you "networked" with
anyone recently?

 -km



Newsgroups: sci.med
From: jayc@hubcap.clemson.edu (Jay Crawford)
Subject: Hair Removal for Female
Keywords: hair removal
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:02:24 GMT

I have a friend who would like to remove what she considers some unsightly hair.Specifially, she would like to remove some light facial hair above her lip, on
her chin/neck, and around her nipples.  The hair on her neck is very fine and
downy, but the rest is rather coarse.  What options does she have?  Are there
any permanent methods?  She is reluctant to ask anyone, but is leery of doing
it herself.  Do dermatologists handles these things, or are home methods just
as effective.  Thanks for your advice; I'll pass it on to her.
-- 
Jay Crawford          
jayc@hubcap.clemson.edu
From: kolovson@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (Curt Kolovson)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: in vitro, or not in vitro?
Date: 14 Sep 92 20:14:24 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories Palo Alto,CA

Pardon me if this is a FAQ, but we have been told to consider in vitro 
fertilization by my wife's OB/GYN.  Does anyone have any experience with 
this?  I've read about it, and heard things second-hand -- all of which leads
me not to want to try it.  It costs about $10K a pop (so to speak), and the
odds are only about 1/3, so the avg cost for a pregnancy is likely to be $30K.
There's also a lot of nasty things to be prepared for, like having them go 
in and terminate some of the developing embryos if too many are making it 
in the early stages.  

My wife is 41, I'm 35, and we've been trying to have children for about a 
year (since we've been married).  My wife did get pregnant last December, but
unfortunately it ended in a miscarriage.  We've been trying since then, but 
no luck so far.  I know this is fairly "normal", and that we should probably 
just keep trying and not resort to in vitro, which is my inclination anyway.
We have been trying lesser things up till now (we do the BBT charts, tried
the "ovulation predictor kits", she's been taking clomed for several months, 
and we tried artificial insemination the last 2 months, all to no avail).  

Personally, I have very little faith in "medical technology" and "infertility 
specialists" in general.

Any in vitro experiences?  Thanks in advance,

	Curt
From: rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: wisdom teeth removal
Date: 9 Sep 1992 22:23:15 GMT

In article <KPC.92Sep1172935@zog.arc.nasa.gov>, kpc@pluto.arc.nasa.gov (k p c) writes:
> does anybody have any wisdom to offer to a 27 year old who has to have
> all 4 wisdom teeth removed?
> 
> ideas, comments, warnings or bay area oral surgeon
> recommendations/disrecommendations would be great.


One thing you did not mention is whether or not your teeth are impacted. It
make a difference. I had all four of mine removed during Christmas break of
my freshman year in college. The two upper teeth were just tissue impacted
but the two lower ones were bone impacted. I had no discomfort from the uppers
but was in absolute misery from the lowers. I was told that the surgeon had 
to cut out some of the bone to get them out. The type of extraction should
help you make up your mind. 

If you do have them removed and have an oral surgeon do it under a general
make sure that either it is done as part of outpatient surgery at a hospital
or the surgeon has the necessary resuscitation equipment and the expertise
to use it. ASK THE SURGEON about this. [My own perference would be to have it
done in a outpatient setting at a hospital, If thing go sour, I would feel
better in being in a hospital already rather than having to be transported.]
I also would feel more secure with either a Anesthesiologist or a Nurse 
Anesthesist during the anathesia.

In any case, get a second opinion 
-- 
Richard H. Miller                 Email: rick@bcm.tmc.edu
Asst. Dir. for Technical Support  Voice: (713)798-3532
Baylor College of Medicine        US Mail: One Baylor Plaza, 302H
                                           Houston, Texas 77030
From: shihtsun@ecn.purdue.edu (Shih-tsun Alex Chou)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: sci.engr.biomed
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:24:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

I'm looking for a relatively cheap medicine dictionary (for academic
purpose). Any suggestions would be highly appreciated. Please reply via e-mail.


Alex Chou
grad student
EE, Purdue Univ.
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: tjreynol@zephyr.cair.du.edu (The Jumpin Dude)
Subject: Sinus pressure
Organization: University of Denver
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 22:03:00 GMT

Hi, I got a cold last thursday and was pretty congested on saturday
when i went skydiving. our airport is at 5,000' MSL, and i got out of
the airplane at about 17,000 MSL. freefall from 17,000 - 7500' takes
about a minute. you can imagine the pressure change. 

about 15 seconds into freefall, the pressure in my face became painful,
4000' later i was screaming in pain. i felt like my head was going to 
explode. i took some decongestant pills (suphedrine?) and made another
freefall a couple of hours later, and i was fine. on sunday, i took 
the pills before i went up, but only 2 instead of 3.

during my first freefall, i felt pressure around the bridge of my nose, 
i had thought to be because i'd taken the foam off of my goggles and they 
were pressing my glasses against my face, but after the 2nd jump, i began
to spit a little blood. during my third jump, i had blood running up my 
goggles. 

i posted an article to rec.skydiving, and got a number of responses
ranging from 'your head would have *imploded*' to 'had you been scuba
diving, you'd be dead' to 'you may have done irreparable damage to your 
ear-drums' to 'sounds like you blew a sinus'.

can someone give me realistic idea of what might have happened, and what
the potential for damage is?

email is preferred, but i'll watch this group for a week or so.
thanks

tim
tjreynol@du.edu
From: phr@soda.berkeley.edu (Paul Rubin)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: headaches (was Re: Xanax)
Date: 11 Sep 92 15:27:22
Organization: CSUA/UCB
	<16427@pitt.UUCP> <pkvnrb#.strnlght@netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: strnlght@netcom.com's message of Fri, 11 Sep 92 11:46:25 GMT

    I hope it was an inadvertence. If not, I'd like to know if he
    has evidence that NLP or est have been challenged by governments
    and some of its core practitioners jailed for criminal behavior
    associated with the "movement" as has Scientology. I'd like
    to know if reputable MDs and Ph.Ds in universities and elsewhere
    are associated with Scientology as they are with NLP and est.

Isn't Werner Erhard hiding out in South America or someplace like
tthat because the US Govt is after him?  I seem to remember hearing
about Bandler (or was it Grinder) being in some kind of trouble too.
From: lsnow@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM (Linda Snow)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Psoriasis
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:40:35 GMT
Reply-To: lsnow@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM (Linda Snow)
Organization: NCR E&M CLEMSON Liberty, SC

In article <1992Sep4.192423.5517@webo.dg.com> mdesai@stealth.webo.dg.com (Munish Desai) writes:
>
>  I was wondering if anyone knows about psoriasis:
>
>    - what it actually does to the skin

If you mean cosmetically, it causes pink shiny scaly patches that itch.

>    - cause

I believe it's unknown but involves fat metabolism.

>    - any effective treatments or cure

No cure.  Don't know if there are any recent developments as far as
ameliorative treatments.  My father has had a severe case for almost 50 
years and has had various treatments none of which were very effective.
He gets some relief from (A) long soaking baths about twice a week to
remove scaliness, (b) exposure to sunlight or sunlamp.

>    - is it fatal

Definitely not.  My father's 78.  Nor is it debilitating except for
the discomfort.

>    - is it hereditary 

I think there's some evidence for this.  I worried for years that I would
get it but I'm 46 now and no sign yet.

My personal opinion is that it can be aggravated by stress. My father is
a definite type-A personality and has always been *extremely* embarrassed,
frustrated and even angry about this disease.  I doubt if that helps much.
He also scratches it a lot which can't be good for it.  I have met
several other people from time to time who have psoriasis but it was not
noticeable; I have a feeling my father's reactions to it aggravated his
condition.  I have also been told that any skin lesions or rashes (such
as poision ivy) will cause that area of the skin to be more prone to a
psoriasis breakout if you have the disease.  Maybe severe sunburn too?  My
dad had quite a severe sunburn all over when he was younger, maybe that
accelerated the psoriasis.  (Mere speculation).
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: [Prescription Privileges]
Organization: The Cat Factory
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:56:04 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.212233.6699@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

}Hypothetical question:  Should a psychologist be comfortable with prescribing
}"psychological drugs" (per above) to patients who may have underlying 
}diabetes, cirrhosis, tendencies to allergy, lupus, COPD, or a zillion other 
}problems that flesh is heir to?  Seems to me that such a pt should be 
}treated by someone trained in these diseases as well as psychological 
}problems.  

Few such people exist.  Many psychiatrists are all too ready to start
handing out anti-depressants and tranquilizers without any kind of
physical exam or medical work-up.

On the other hand, a competent psychologist (and I'm the first to admit
there are plenty of incompetents in the field) will send a client off for
a medical exam if there's any suspicion of possible physiological
problems.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: shihtsun@ecn.purdue.edu (Shih-tsun Alex Chou)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Medicine Dictionary
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:26:26 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

I'm looking for a relatively cheap medicine dictionary (for academic
use). Any suggestions would be highly appreciated. Please reply via e-mail.


Alex Chou
grad student
EE, Purdue Univ.
From: apland@mala.bc.ca
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Children of smokers
Date: 15 Sep 92 12:19:42 -0700
Organization: Malaspina College

> Both my folks smoked 1-2 packs each a day for _years_.  We (my two younger brothers
> and I) would have to sit for hours and hours in the smoking section of airplanes
> on the way to see relatives so my parents could ease travelling tension.
> 

I'm inclined to call this type of thing today, child abuse.  What child abuse 
is, is culturally determined in part and it could only be called abuse if it is
known to cause harm.  We know that passive smoke causes harm today and I for
one find it offensive when parents smoke in the presence of children.  I also
find establishments like MacDonalds, who actively attract children into an
environment where smoking is permitted, offensive.

look at:

Mactutus & Fechter (1984) Prenatal exposure to carbon monoxide:Learning and 
  memory deficits. Science, 223, 409-411.

Tager, Weiss, et.al. (1983) Longitudinal study of the effects of maternal 
  smoking on pulmonary function in children.  New England Journal of Medicine, 
  309, 699-703.

Greenberg et al (1984) Measuring the exposure of infants to tobacco smoke.
  New England Journal of Medicine, 310, 1075-1078.

Sepkovic et al (1986). Elimination from the body of tobacco products by smokers 
  and passive smokers.  Journal of the American Medical Association, 256, 863.

Schmeltz et al (1975) The influence of tobacco smoke on indoor atmospheres.
  Preventive Medicine, 4, 66-82.

Charlton (1984) Children's coughs related to parental smoking.  British Medical
  Journal, 288, 1747-49.

Dalager et al (1986) The relation of passive smoking to lung cancer.  Cancer
  Research, 46, 4808-11.

These are just a few of many.  Check out the abstract indexes if you are 
interested in this topic.

It should be pointed out (before someone else does) that these studies are
correlational for ethical reasons, and that is ironic in itself.  We don't
want to expose children to sidestream smoke in a controlled setting but we
allow children to be exposed to it at home (not much you can do here except
education) and in public places.  Even if the conclusions of these studies
are found to be false (which I doubt will happen), let us err on the side of
caution.  Children have no or little choice of where they live or eat. 


> None of the three of us brothers smokes.  

Good your you guys.  There were four of us in our family and all smoked at one
time or another.  Only one smokes now though - at least I think he still 
smokes.


Ron
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: Phobias, NLP, etc (was Re: Xanax)
Organization: The Cat Factory
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 19:15:32 GMT

In article <j_zn79#.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
}
}Steve Dyer thinks ...

Etc., etc., etc.

This thread has ceased to have any relevance to either sci or med.  I
(politely) suggest you take it off line.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: kja@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (krista.j.anderson)
Subject: Re: hair loss in female
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 21:07:27 GMT

I also was concerned about hair loss for awhile.  It seemed to
correlate with different shampoos, but they quit making my old
favorite.  Well, I finally thought to check for dyes since I'm
allergic to/intolerant of FD&C Yellow #5.  Sure enough, my new
shampoo contained it.  The dye can be absorbed through the skin,
I read recently.  I don't know if it could cause hair loss, but my
scalp has stopped itching since I switched!  The dye also explains
why I used to get rashes from a lot of soaps (naturally I just
stick to something safe at this point.)

Anyway, while I was thinking about hair loss, I happened to glance
at a book on symptoms and found that a hair loss of 50 hairs a day
is normal.  When the hair is long, 50 can look like a lot of hair
and mine seemed to be within range.  But if there are more than 50,
I guess a dermatologist would be the person to see.
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: FIBERGLASS & CANCER
Date: 9 Sep 92 15:32:06 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <11344.2AA30202@stjhmc.fidonet.org> Keith.Hitchner@f5.n3611.z1.fidonet.org (Keith Hitchner) writes:
>If you leave it alone it should not pose a health hazard.  Like asbestos if it 
>becomes friable (brittle to the touch) it may then become airborn.  If you 
>leave it alone and it does not deteriorate then no hazard should exist.
>
Same thing for asbestos.  If it is not deteriorated and flaking then
it should be left alone.  The latest craze for removing asbestos
from schools is nuts.  They've gone into those schools with asbestos
detectors and determined that the airborne asbestos is completely
within safe limits prior to ripping it out and it is much higher
for months if not years after the extremely expensive process of
getting it out.  Add to that the fact that asbestos poses little
demonstrated risk to non-smokers.  Non-smoking asbestos workers
were only half as likely to develop lung cancer as smokers who
never were exposed to asbestos.  (Smokers exposed to asbestos
are about 50 times more likely to get lung cancer).  Guess who
is most likely to smoke, the school children, or the construction
workers hired to tear out the asbestos?   Unfortunately,
when the public becomes hysterical about something, they won't
let science stand in their way.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: breeding@snkerz.enet.dec.com (Andy Breeding)
Subject: Wound that won't heal
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:11:28 GMT


My mother has a wound on her leg that won't heal.  She has rheumatoid
arthritis and sustained the wound in a minor accident over a year ago.
Apparently the medications she's taking are the culprit*  But her doctors
don't seem to be handling the problem.  Does anyone know of a possible
solutions? (e.g. would a skin graft work?)  Any suggestions would be
appreciated.

Andy Breeding



* - prednisone and methotrexate (sp?) are two that I know she's
    being taking recently.

Newsgroups: sci.med
From: zcnj01@hou.amoco.com (Cecil N. Jones)
Subject:  HPV and Vitamin B
Reply-To: zcnj01@hou.amoco.com
Organization: Amoco
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 18:23:24 GMT


I recently saw a short note that said that studies at the University of Alabama at Birmingham prove that adequate vitamin B keeps HPV (Human Papilloma Virus) in check and prevents cell abnormalities that lead to cancer of the cervix.

Does anyone have a complete reference to this study, or have any other knowledge of the specifics? What is an adequate amount of vitamin B? How does it keep HPV in check? Etc.

Any info is appreciated.

Thanks,

---
  Cecil N. Jones    Amoco Production Co.  Houston, TX  713-588-5716
  Jones_Cecil_N/ets_ess@hou.amoco.com     ..or..     cnjones@hou.amoco.com           
  The opinions expressed are solely my own.




Keywords: 


---
  Cecil N. Jones    Amoco Production Co.  Houston, TX  713-588-5716
  Jones_Cecil_N/ets_ess@hou.amoco.com              
  The opinions expressed are solely my own.
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Xanax
Date: 15 Sep 92 21:43:08 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <ayvnrrr.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:

>Zorilla rejects the need for a credible theoretical underpinning as an
>ancillary requirement. I don't agree. Without such a basis, one is
>simply kicking the TV set to fix it, and may get lucky, or may damage
>it further.  Moreover, one is blind with respect to refining and
>focussing one's therapeutic techniques. Sounds like an argument for
>random drugging or lobotomizing patients.
>
It's nice to have a theory to explain the observations.  In the
case of NLP, psychoanalysis, Marxism, and other inductive systems,
I suspect the theory came first and the "experiments" after.
The danger with that is the results are bent to fit the theory.
That is why double blind controlled studies are so valuable.
In science, the observations are the foundation, and the theories
are the superstructure.  The astronomical data gathered by the
ancients still is useful today.  Ptolemy's theories of epicycles,
which did explain the data, is in the dustbin of history.
If the NLP phobia cure does work, that doesn't mean I'll buy
the theory of NLP, although I must admit my ignorance of it.


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM)
Subject: Medline..How to?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: dolmen!jgraham@moose.cs.indiana.edu
Organization: Somewhere in Bloomington, Indiana
Distribution:  na
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 04:59:38 GMT

I would like to know how to access Medline. 

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks in advance,

Jim Graham 

        -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-
                          Neither do they speak for me.
 ______________________________________________________________________
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