HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ugly
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:15:56 GMT
Reply-To: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca

Anthony Berno also writes:
>Bears have at least some exposure in mainstream gay media

George Dalton Madison writes:
> No, we don't. 

Max Rochlin writes:
>Face it, George, bears are uninteresting to mainstream gay media.

George Dalton Madison writes:
>  This simply isn't true.  _HONCHO_ has done a couple of
>  "bear" oriented issues...


So, are we MARGINILIZED, or NOT???

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Sucking on Keanu Reeves
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 00:28:26 GMT

nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>In article <74515@apple.apple.COM> richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel) writes, in a completely different context:
>>As a coworker says when referring to people being responsible for their
>>own actions, "he's over 21."

>Oh goody, does that mean that people who are under 21 aren't
>responsible for their actions?

(Psst- Nelson- I thought you *knew* this already!)

>John, dear, we better take advantage of this while we can.. How about
>we do an around-the-world trip, go be irresponsible in San Francisco,
>New York, Amsterdam, Paris, Mykonos, New Delhi, Cairo, Moscow,
>Beijing, Otago and Sydney.. All before we turn 21, of course.

Sounds really really cool!

>Any of you responsible motssers want to fund us? We'll write e-postcards!

Even if Nelson isn't serious, I am. I want to do a Daddyglobetrot!

>>I'm sure that even George Madison and I could have a good time
>>argueing about single malt whisky.

>not being 21, I'm sure I've never tasted single malt whisky. Well, OK,
>but only once. And I did it right, too - wearing a kilt, taking a nip
>of whiskey right before I tossed a caber.

I haven't done any of the above, but I've gone without underwear
before. Does that count?

--
John Dorrance        * Sexyfunky Motherfuckerdiva *   thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

		I bet if you threw that ass into the air
			It'd turn into sunshine!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden)
Subject: Re: ""Gay rights group files complaint""
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, Ca.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 04:50:17 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <38954@hoptoad.uucp> laura@hoptoad.uucp (Laura Creighton) writes:

   Thought experiement.  Assume that one has to choose to  be queer.
   No genetic predisposition, no nothing.  People just point blank
   choose to be queer.

   What's so wrong with that?
   (end thought experiment)

Nothing, in my opinion.  But the fact that it isn't a choice seems to
be a persuasive argument that makes people think a little deeper about
the subject.

Note that the Catholic church finally recognizes the lack of choice,
and therefore is forced to take a (somewhat) more liberal position on
gays.

--

  - Ronald Hayden

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
   | Documentation Manager, Oracle Toolkit Group                    |
   | Co-chair of Oracle Lambda, Oracle's Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual group |
   | Writer, magician, and various other things                     |
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: wdstarr@athena.mit.edu (William December Starr)
Subject: Re: A Strand of Bigotry
Organization: Northeastern Law, Class of '93
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:42:18 GMT


In article <1992Nov19.005034.5803@oracle.us.oracle.com>, 
mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) said:

> > > So why is there a right to practice sodomy?  [Clayton Cramer]
> >
> > Because it is a private matter between consenting adults. Didn't
> > you know that?  [Greg Hennessy]
>
> So is prostitution.
> 
> (The money involved clearly does not take it out of the private
> sphere.  After all, abortion is protected under the privacy theory
> but people pay for abortions.)

Absolutely true.  I never knew you were a libertarian, Michael.

-- William December Starr <wdstarr@athena.mit.edu>
From: ktfizazi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Kamal Tayeb Fizazi)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: COLORADO: Addresses
Keywords: my editor is f'ed up, so please excuse lack of text.
Date: 22 Nov 92 20:18:59 GMT
Expires: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 05:00:00 GMT
Followup-To: (see above)
Distribution: all
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster


-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=| D (unya) => the world
al-Sayyid Kamal al-Tayib al-Fizazi al-Idrissi :^)| H (anyah)=> is easy/restful
(I must admit, my baraka is still quite dormant!)| S (ma)   => the sky
(would someone help me rouse it? anyone? anyone?)| S (afyah)=> is clear/pure
Xref: sparky soc.motss:48121 pnw.motss:90
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,pnw.motss
Subject: Re: 1991 anti-gay measure ruled unconstitutional
Date: 18 Nov 92 01:02:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov18.010216.12367
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Nov17.155754.29639@osf.org> coren@speed.osf.org (The man with the lovely, scratchable reddish beard) writes:
>This is very nice, and I'm very glad these two laws were overturned.

(speaking of the Concord law, and the Oregon law)

>But I'm not sure I'd get too excited about the connection with
>Colorado. I haven't seen enough details to be sure, but I would
>suspect that these two cases found the laws in question to be in
>conflict with their respective state constitutions.

I'm still not sure on this, but I know a little more. I'm not a lawyer
though: I'm just playing one on Usenet.

The Concord measure seems to have been overturned because it violates
the provisions for equal protection in the California state
constitution, and possibly the US constitution.

The Oregon measure seems to have been overturned because it endangers
state employees *first amendment* rights. Yes, that's right - the US
constitution's first amendment. The idea is that it's your
constitutional right to express yourself as a queer, and that Measure
8 endangered that by creating a threatening atmosphere. 

I'm amazed at such a liberal interpretation, myself. The ACLU in
Oregon was disappointed that the "equal protection" argument wasn't
considered more strongly here - I suppose they think it's a stronger
argument.

>The Colorado amendment is *part* of the state constitution. To
>overturn it, I believe, would require finding it in conflict with the
>*Federal* constitution, so it's not clear that we have any useful
>precedents yet.

But if I'm right about Oregon, we now have at least one judicial
precedent for the first amendment prohibiting laws that prohibit laws
prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

Nothing an Oregon or California state court says will directly affect
Colorado, but it's a big help for us.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/   Delicious & Nutritious breakfast cereals shot from guns!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: Bear Crap
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 04:11:00 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <1992Nov17.212900.24865@oracle.us.oracle.com>, dgilly@us.oracle.com
(Daniel Gilly) writes:
|> I'm sincerely curious about your intention in supplying
|> the "bear codes" in the survey.  Is it OK for *anyone* use them?
|> Is there a "party line" (among self-identified bears or among
|> the larger soc.motss community) about this?

They're not for *use* by bears... they're for *interpretation* by bears of
little brain.

|> Do you encourage the general use of bear codes as a shorthand
|> for describing people, a la Personals section, or should their
|> use be reserved to identify bears? 

I think their use should be reserved to identify the end of a posting...
generally something to which I look forward with joy on any posting that carries
one. 
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: gsmith@lauren.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Gene W. Smith)
Subject: Re: What Gay Sex (was Re: How Many Homosexuals?)
Organization: IWR, University of Heidelberg, Germany
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 17:38:42 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.224047.17123@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson
Minar) writes:

>No, I'm fully out of the closet about my love for HP Lovecraft. I even
>find uses for words like "cyclopean" and "eldritch". I hope to use
>"angles than looked acute, but acted as if they were obtuse" in my
>math thesis.

Well, what is your thesis about?  Try this as an example: "When
considering fundamental regions for automorphic functions, we see many
angles which look acute, but act as if they were obtuse.  This comes
from the fact that the universal covering is a hyperbolic plane."

That sounded almost natural to me.  Maybe it would even be possible to
work in cyclopean somehow.

>ObMotss - I think, objectively, that Anne Rice is only half a step
>above the Stephen King, who isn't much better than Piers Anthony. But
>she writes stuff that's queer relevant, so I enjoy it more.

Sounds about right to me.



-- 
     Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/IWR/Ruprecht-Karls University 
               gsmith@kalliope.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de
From: kingdon@east-wind.org (Jim Kingdon)
Subject: Re: Nationwide lesbigay political organization
Organization: East Wind Community, Tecumseh, Missouri, USA
	<KINGDON.92Nov14121300@east-win.east-wind.org>
	<15NOV92.20430329@enh.nist.gov>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:38:58 GMT

In article <15NOV92.20430329@enh.nist.gov> aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:

   The major difference is that NGLTF is 501(c)3 (tax exempt educational
   organization) and HRCF is a PAC (political organization).  

The NGLTF actually consists of two corporations, the NGLTF itself,
which is not a 501(c)3, and the NGLTF Policy Institute, which is.  The
Policy Institute can do things like mailings and outreach and other
sorts of educational things, and the Task Force itself does things
like lobbying.
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Fundamentalists and the clitoris
Date: 17 Nov 92 00:25:47 GMT
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

whee, feeling stressed? Engage in an ad hoc argument about evolution!

In article <1992Nov16.212806.4163@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay) writes:
>the clitoris is an evolutionary accident; it is a non-functional
>counterpart of a functional male organ, the penis.

define function.

>It is very much like male nipples in this respect; again, nipples are
>functional on women, and men have them because of evolutionary inertia.

my nipples don't function? Tell that to anyone who's sucked on them.

>It turns out that both of these organs are Good Things to have,
>since they're fun to play with... but this was not a factor in
>their evolution.
...
>In this sense, female orgasm is also an evolutionary accident

thanks for telling me how evolution works! Gee, it's so simple.
There's no *purpose* at all to clitorises, or girlies having orgasms.
It's all an accident, a byproduct of a system that developed the True
Significant Organs - the almighty penis and the vagina into which the
penis fits.

>I hasten to say that evolution is not a moral arbiter.

Even though every sentence you've written makes evolution *sound* like
a moral arbiter, by using such perjorative terms as "non-fuctional" to
describe fundamental parts of sexual anatomy.

I don't know particularly how you feel about the function of the
clitoris in women's existence. You threw in a couple of disclaimers
that made you sound inclusive and PC. But you just *can't* talk about
evolution this way, about "purposes" and "accidents". 

In this particular case, you come off sounding like a misogynist and
an idiot.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                 All of the freaks are not inside the tents
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Rap (Yes, you're still in soc.motss) (Re: Marky Mark
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 20:43:47 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.154321.14333@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> dyarman@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Donald L Yarman) writes:
>>->...  It's a Black thing and most Gay White men can't relate to
>>->it and don't understand it.
>>what an ignorant thing to say.>
>
>Actually, no, it wasn't.  Rap is very much a "black thing."  It
>is rooted in very old patterns of African and African-American
>communicative styles, and is tied intimately with the realities
>of Black existence.  Rap is linked to the communicative phenomenon
>of "signifying," something that those individuals raised outside
>of Black culture cannot easily understand.

Thanks.

>Donald wasn't being racist when he said that white, gay men
>couldn't understand; but he was, I think, overstating his case
>a bit.  I think "camping" in gay culture (or "cultchah," if you
>prefer) provides an analogy to signifying.  It will take some
>work, but I think white people _can_ (eventually) come to
>some sort of understanding.

This is a wonderfully concise and illuminating example.

Rap has always seemed influenced (to my white ears) by the whole
oral tradition of the beat poets of the 50's.  At least they share
the same oracular style.  Am I totally off-base here?  Is this
an example of heritage or simply convergent evolution?


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Seed-stealing squirrels
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:29:10 GMT
Organization: Xiola Blue

Elizabeth Zwicky writes:

>been stopped at the California border by people demanding to know if
>I've got any squirrel toys...

Speaking of squirrel toys cross the state border, tell your dad that we're
overdue for a scallop summit with that fashion tragedy Michael Hennahane.
Isn't he supposed to migrate west for the winter again soon?
-- 
a flying squirrel is: richard@apple.com  Apple Computer Inc.

i'm your girl            friend
i'm your squirrel        friend
i'm your round the world friend

"In America, we can't even get corruption right."  - my CFII.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: FAMOUS GAYS from GAYNET (fwd)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, California
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:46:45 GMT

> Minotaur@cup.portal.com (A Frank Swilling) writes:
>
>Tom Selleck has said time and time again that he not gay,
>that if he was he would say so with pride, and that he is
>as proud of his heterosexuality as gay people are of theirs.

But...but...what about my friend's ex-boyfriend's friend
who held his hand in the ER that time 2 quarts of semen
were pumped out of his stomach?  Well, OK -- they just
went on a couple of dates... :-)

Did you ever notice that the Barbara Walterses never ask
these people if they're bisexual...?
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tapestry@camelot.bradley.edu (Brian Petree)
Subject: Opening the door...
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:40:35 GMT


I guess I am opening myself up to just about anything, but, as I plan
to come out to my parents soon, I want to know about the reactions of
some of your parents.  I have just basically come out within the week,
and I think I am pretty sure to take the next step.

So, as I'm struggling with this, I want to hear how others have dealt
with this.  I have read NOW THAT YOU KNOW, but I would like to attach
stories and people who I know something about [through the net that
is.]

I would prefer email, and ANY type of response to this post.  It would
even be a plus if you were about to "break the news" soon too. 
Even if you are in the closet so-to-speak, I can assure you of being
discrete.

I will thank everyone ahead of time, and a personal thanks goes out to
Emily and LD.  You have helped me so much.


I look forward to your responses,
Brian Neal Petree
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 14:47:09 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <74296@apple.apple.COM> <1992Nov15.040728.10571@spdcc.com>

Steve Dyer writes:
>2774296@apple.apple.COM> richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel) writes:
>richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel) writes:
>>Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>>>Well, not quite. He's an ugly white boy who thinks he's black and
>>>does rap music to prove it.....  *UGH*.
>>I find your statement above to be fairly racist and worthy of calling to
>>your attention.  Surely you did not mean it to sound as it reads?
>
>I think it's possible to read George's statement as being without any
>racist intent, nor do I think that George has a racist hair on his
>body.  This what-his-name is simply a media creation exploiting a
>legitimate art for by co-opting it for the white masses, or in other
>words, doing just what he used to do as a member of NKOTB.  I mean, why
>isn't he treated with the same dismissiveness as Vanilla Ice was?  I

Nail.

Head.

Bang!

>>On the other hand, considering how anti-anything-but-bears you've
>>established yourself to be, perhaps you mean what you wrote in a
>>most offensive way.  I'll hope not and look for a clarification.
>
>Given the collective drooling we've had to put up with over this guy,
>I think George's comments were quite apt and timely.

Thank you.  I find it interesting that when the Bears are
discussing what they find attractive in this forum, we get the
cries of "Oh no, all that Bear crap again!"  But when it's an
ugly little fuck like "Marky Mark" being drooled over, HEAVEN 
FORFEND that anyone should disagree in a similarly sharp fashion.

Now, I imagine someone's about to pounce on me for calling
"Marky Mark" an "ugly little fuck."  Well, even those who do
drool over him have admitted his face isn't much to look at, and
to *ME*, the face (most preferably with a beard or other
significant facial hair, if it's a male) is the first thing I 
notice, and probably the most important factor in physical
attraction for me. I'm not surprised he has such a ridiculous 
moniker; to paraphrase a favorite Crotoni greeting, he had to
make up his own name 'cause he was too ugly for his parents to
claim.  [c.f. ISAAC'S UNIVERSE Vol. 3, _Fighting Words_ by
Janet Kagan.]

 
() In order to make an apple pie from scratch, you must
() first create the universe.
()      -- Carl Sagan, Cosmos
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: FAMOUS GAYS from GAYNET (fwd)
Date: 23 Nov 92 00:42:31 GMT
Organization: Militant Homosexual Lobby, Gay Lifestyles, Inc.


Frank Swilling (Minotaur@cup.portal.com) wrote:
 
> Tom Selleck has said time and time again that he not gay,
> that if he was he would say so with pride, and that he is
> as proud of his heterosexuality as gay people are of theirs.

Well, it's statements like this that destroy
his credibility [not to mention the moustache];
I mean, how many gay people do you know who are
really proud of their heterosexuality?

Maybe people just confuse him with Sam Elliott?

--jns
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Cheese-Louise
Date: 18 Nov 92 23:19:55 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) wrote:
>As for dietary weirdness, I've not run into many people who
>drink aloe vera gel regularly, which I do to the tune of
>about an ounce daily (in OJ).

I had thought this a local thing.  I never heard of mixing it with OJ,
though.  Most just drink it, er, straight.  A "leaf" of aloe, a
couple of pounds worth (how do they grow it so big?)  goes for
about $1 in most supermarkets.  I get mine fresh from the garden.

I haven't seen any recipes that call for aloe vera.  Maybe Arne
could find some in his library.  I did find a book on Native
American cooking, which looked fascinating, and I can't wait to
try out.

Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"Home is where your roof landed" - t-shirt seen in Miami
Hate, bigotry, and discrimination are not family values, even in
Colorado and Tampa.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Bear Crap
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 22:52:59 GMT

rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

>glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
>>|> And this is just one example.... It goes on *much* further.
>>Space Aliens?  

>	No they're pretty hairless...

No, BBC, you're WRONG! It's just that the fascist twink-leaning
tabloid media ignores all incidences of hot beefy bearMartians
in deference to the trite, cliche 'sightings' of slim, smooth,
hairless aliens. It's looksism, pure and simple. (And do you
notice how even when the aliens are supposedly centuries old,
they're shown and described as 'childlike'? Ageism, I think.)

John, who, of course, is being ridiculous

--
John Dorrance        * Sexyfunky Motherfuckerdiva *   thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

		I bet if you threw that ass into the air
			It'd turn into sunshine!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 09:06:20 GMT

rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese) wrote: 
->In article <1992Nov15.162201.11450@wixer.cactus.org>, lazarus@wixer.cactus.org
->(Michael Lax) writes:
->|> Some of us think he's a hunk, others think he's white trash.
->
->Some of us think he's both.

i was wondering about this ... i didn't think these were mutually
exclusive.

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
#     for information on the league for programming freedom, 
#                     write to lpf@uunet.uu.net
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: Not Enough Sucking on Keanu
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 00:34:03 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <1992Nov15.235449.19817@Princeton.EDU>,
spencer@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (S. Spencer Sun) wrote:

> Well, maybe he DID spend the whole movie trapped in the castle, even if
> they didn't always have him on screen.  (Pity!)

No, no.  I refuse to be mollified.  The nympho scene was simply not
long enough; or, there were not enough.  I wanted nympho blood suckers
in the morning, in the afternoon, and in the evening.  I mean, if we
had to put up with the poor English accent - then we damn well 
deserve to have seen some SKIN for our troubles...

We DID get a good glimpse of a very hard little male nipple, though... 

*X* 
Newsgroups: soc.motss