From: lb@cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Re: Re2: Serbo-Croatian and Greco-Bulgarian "stuff"
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:39:57 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.greek
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <92280.034501PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu> PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>In   4th Oct 92 10:46:50 GMT    Luben Boyanov   (lb@cs.man.ac.uk)
>critised my message  <92277.172939PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu>.
>
>Here is the dialogue:

>M.Pavlovic: My Greek friends...Don't let yourselves be pushed in-

>      >>>>        M A C E D O N I A  =  H E L L A S

>S.Tzonev: BRAVO Mr. Pavlovic!
>      >>> Maybe your next appeal will look like:
>      >>>  "Fellow orthodox greeks - it's high time to divide Ma-
>      >>>   cedonia! MACEDONIA = HELLAS + SOUTH SERBIA" ?
>      >>>                                   very curious, Svilen

>A.Romanos: I must remind you:  Mr.Pavlovic  has been very consis-
>     >>  tent over the "Macedonia=Hellas"  notion for a long time
>     >>  now, and I have every reason to believe that he uses the
>     >>  term referring to MAKEDONIA (which is clearly within the
>     >>  current Greek frontier).
>
>L.Boyanov:  I would have  skipped this if it came from other, but
>      >  from somebody pretending for accuracy and who has provi-
>      >  ded (indeed)  good examples of research, after 'strange'
>      >  initial postings.  But  what one can read from above is
>      >  really ridiculous.
>                ::::::::::
>        <paragraph from the "History of the Great War" deleted.>

And shouldn't be deleted as it was clearly describing MACEDONIA, which is
clearly not within the current Greek frontier, which was my point !!!

>Ridiculous is when you wrongly blast one person for a posting so-
>meone else wrote about the Bulgarians massacring the Jews,  with-

Why don't you refrain from more ridiculous statements - there were no such
massacring and I proved it a long time ago.  I didn't 'blast' you at that
time - I did it towards the author of the posting and writing. What I said
was that the quotations showed that that whoever wrote it had not idea of
what was going on and was wrong to talk in terms of such matters.

And because you jumped on that subject, I'll add few more words on the
postings from that time. As it was pointed out later, the purpose of your
repostings to many other groups (not only s.c.b.) was exposed shortly after
that crosspositng (I think - by some Turkish netters - maybe M. Hubey). It
was said why you crosposted messages (from someting which was posted only
to s.c.t. on completely different topic) to many other groups. The purpose
(I can't remember if it was Mark) was to try to get some reaction to the
original posting and so - to generate Turk bashing from elsewhere. Your present
attempts to divert the issue which on which I made my posting - (i.e. that
Macedonia != Greece) and introduce something like a Greek dictionary,
opposing to a dictionary which the rest of the world is using (i.e. to the word
Macedonia) is even more ridiculous and you can let the netters from other
countries to share their opinion on the subject. By all this the Macedonian
problem, what was and wasn't is only gaining a 'strange' direction.

As for the history and the 'value' of Macedonia, that region is as much
valuable and important for Bulgaria (and for it's history) as much it is
for Greece (and it's important to Serbia as well). Attempts to get
exclusive rights on the name and it's history are not only not serious but
also indicate that books and materials for the last century haven't been
read at all. 

Hardly anybody argues that ancient Macedonia and Greece had a lot in common
and have nothing in common with contemporary ex-Yu Macedonia and it's
people. But it's as much hard not to say the same about Macedonia and
Bulgaria for the 10th-11th century, and for the 19th-20th century, or for
Macedonia and Serbia for the 13th-14th century. One can imagine what will
happen if Bulgaria, Serbia, Turkey (after Turks were one of the biggest, in
not THE biggest single ethnic group a century ago in Macedonia), Albania,
and Roumania start spreading slogans and stickers like:

	Macedonia = Bulgaria     or      Macedonia is the heart of Bulgaria

	Macedonia = Serbia       or      Macedonia is the heart of Serbia

	Macedonia = Turkey       or      Macedonia is the heart of Turkey

	Macedonia = Albania      or      Macedonia is the heart of Albania

	Macedonia = Roumania     or      Macedonia is the heart of Roumania


>I merely observed that a netter uses a phrase  "Macedonia=Hellas"
>beneath his signature, with some consistency.

The purpose of that was nothing else but to gain interest and 'support' from
people like you and this was also quite easy to be guessed. Serbian scholars
after 1860-70-90 claim nothing else but:  Macedonia = South Serbia and not
Macedonia = Hellas and if you don't know this (by any chance) - go find it
out. Authors to start with are Gopcevic and Belits. Find out for yourself.

Please restrain from twisting the subject in further postings, in case you
want to have some dialogue. The easiest thing is not to have a dialogue.



>                                             Andronikos Romanos



Luben
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:9460 soc.culture.yugoslavia:8985 soc.culture.bulgaria:1464