HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: What *is* Homophobia (formerly: SLAMMING HOMOSEXUALS...)
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 02:26:30 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.000327.13800@noao.edu> forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach) writes:
>That's exactly right, with one difference.  Condoms were originally made from
>animal intestines (sausage skins), and you can still buy lambskin condoms to
>this day.

Which incidentally are not considered an effective barrier to HIV.

>However, I beg to differ as to their original purpose.   Since the
>microscope was not yet invented, and bacteria, much less viruses, were not
>yet discovered, and in fact, doctors washing their own hands as a means of
>preventing the spread of disease from one patient to another was not yet even
>considered to be a helpful medical practice, it is clear that the condom's
>original purpose was simply to contain the semen and act as BIRTH control.
>Disease control was not even yet a _concept_.

Er, not quite.  Their use to prevent the spread of venereal disease
predates the germ thory of disease, but not the association of the
sexual act with the various conditions!  Their role in preventing
the acquisition of syphilis was recognized as early as the 18th century.

>In modern times, lambskin has
>progressed to rubber, simply because it's cheaper, and it's a mighty flimsy
>piece of rubber at that, to be trusting your life with, don'tcha think?

Latex condoms are the condom of choice when HIV is concerned.

There's no question that condoms are very effective in preventing pregnancy
and in reducing the spread of diseases when they're used with appropriate
care.  People are going to have sex in any case; they need to have access
to information and materials which allow them to increase their chances
of avoiding disease.  Condoms are one part of this.  Now, on an individual
level, someone might well ask whether they feel comfortable choosing to
use a condom (versus abstinance, one presumes.)  Let them have the information
and make a decision.  It is not the Church's place to step in.


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: chrisa@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (C. G. Albone)
Subject: Re: Gay Theory
Organization: Uni Computing Service, Uni of Sydney, Australia
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 07:30:25 GMT

In article <Br5oIB.JwI@acsu.buffalo.edu> omhoward@acsu.buffalo.edu (The God-Bitch Emperor of Snuggle Bunnies) writes:
>In <1992Jul9.155848.25097@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>
>>So, if you are religious, and you find out that you are homosexual/bisexual,
>>you can be part of a GBL organization, be vocal for GBL rights, even be
>>attacted to a person of your same sex. However, you should marry someone
>>of the opposite sex and have sex with your wife/husband only. Then, you are
>>saved. Right???
>
>Of course, and you can in your heart be unfaithful to the person who
>you are with (which in christian belief-type systems is as good as
>adultery) and you can hate yourself and your life and be miserable
>till you die..  All according to God's wonderful plan..  Halleuia!

Or, alternatively, you can be gay/bi/lesbian, politically active, and
even have a partner of the same sex and still be an active Christian.
I Guess it depends on which church you are a part of, and which (if any)
church you think has got the goods.

Not all churches are so down on homosexual relationships, I guess it just
means that you should hunt. Of course, it also means that the churches
should re-evaluate their stances on homosexuality. WHile it is true that
human nature has not changed since the bible was written, it is also true
that our understanding of that human nature has changed, with the effect 
moral code that was once appropriate in a particular social and
intellectual climate may not be appropriate now.


---
Chris.
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: sej5g@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Susan Elizabeth Juroff)
Subject: Re: Preface to Bible-Bashing of Gays
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 00:50:52 GMT

ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com  writes:
> In article <1992Jul18.214108.14334@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fusco@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Andrew Fusco) writes:
> >ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) writes:

>The Bible merely says we should not "judge" others. It does not state that
there is no such thing as sin. In fact, while we may not judge others, we 
have an obligation to others to let it be known what is sinful and what 
isn't.

Do you really see a difference?  

Andrew, did you ever notice that society has to teach children
bigotry?  They don't come born with it.  Kinda like hate.  

-->sej5g
--
From: exubern@exu.ericsson.se (Bernie Meier)
Subject: Re: Christians & Homosexuals: Who are the bigot
Reply-To: exubern@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, USA
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 23:02:15 GMT

In article 10227@ucc.su.OZ.AU, chrisa@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (C. G. Albone) writes:
>Hello All,
>
>	I guess the subject line is going to generate some attention,
>and I guess that is the purpose. Actually, it is the title of a talk
>that will be given in the gay group at Sydney Uni in a couple of weeks
>time. One of the main focuses of this discussion is to be on the amount
>of trouble that gay christians have in being accepted, not only by the
>churches, but also by the gay community (so far as a community exists).
>
>	I would like to ask for any references to literature in this
>area, especially in the context of anti-christian sentiment expressed
>towads gay christians from the community. I would also like to throw the
>topic open here to see what sort of opinions there are in that wide 
>world that I have only limited access to.
>
>	If you have references, emailing them might be best. Thanx
>in advance.
>
>---
>Chris.

Pretty dumb, Chris. Since you seem to have a problem understanding
where Christians (read: followers of Christ who have a personal 
friendship with Christ the only begotten Son of God the Creator of
all humanity) are comming from, why not start with *the* source:
The BIBLE.

---
=================================================================
|| Bernie Meier 214-997-0688 || "Do they speak swedish in      ||
|| exubern@exu.ericsson.se   ||  Switzerland?"   - R.U.Serious ||
=================================================================

Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,soc.motss
From: spaz@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Trebor Strunderthuck)
Subject: Re: *** OFFENSIVE LYRICS ***
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 13:29:47 GMT

>"Bohemian Rhapsody" was posted to a general chat newsgroup at my uni. I'd
>like anyone's comments about how to discourage this sort of thing being
>posted, and how to tell heteros how offensive things like this can be.
>
>
>Offended?
>I was.
hmmm......offended? nah......disgusted...yes..

How dare anyone ruin the creative and classic writings of Freddie Mercury.
I could just spit. This is a FAR stretch from "Another One Rides The Bus"
by "Weird" Al Yankovic....
I HATE IT! :(
Oh well...that's off my chest.

-- 
----------------spaz.csd4.csd.uwm.edu------------------
{ I am one husky bear cub in love!!!!!!!              }
{ YAHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!              }
-------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: chrisa@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (C. G. Albone)
Subject: Re: Christians & Homosexuals: Who are the bigot
Organization: Uni Computing Service, Uni of Sydney, Australia
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 14:25:28 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.230215.1054@exu.ericsson.se> exubern@exu.ericsson.se writes:
>In article 10227@ucc.su.OZ.AU, chrisa@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (C. G. Albone) writes:
>>Hello All,
>>
>>	I guess the subject line is going to generate some attention,
>>and I guess that is the purpose. Actually, it is the title of a talk
>>that will be given in the gay group at Sydney Uni in a couple of weeks
>>time. One of the main focuses of this discussion is to be on the amount
>>of trouble that gay christians have in being accepted, not only by the
>>churches, but also by the gay community (so far as a community exists).
>>
>>	I would like to ask for any references to literature in this
>>area, especially in the context of anti-christian sentiment expressed
>>towads gay christians from the community. I would also like to throw the
>>topic open here to see what sort of opinions there are in that wide 
>>world that I have only limited access to.
>>
>>	If you have references, emailing them might be best. Thanx
>>in advance.
>>
>>---
>>Chris.
>
>Pretty dumb, Chris. Since you seem to have a problem understanding
>where Christians (read: followers of Christ who have a personal 
>friendship with Christ the only begotten Son of God the Creator of
>all humanity) are comming from, why not start with *the* source:
>The BIBLE.
>
No my dear friend you are pretty dumb. I happen to be Christian, I also
happen to be bisexual. I kinda understood that the bible had something
to do with christianity when i was a child (I guess it is an open
question as to what that relationship is in particular cases).

What I was interested in was references to studies about conflicts between
gay and lesbian christians and both the church(es) and the homosexual
community (as much as one exists). I was also interested in experiences.

Actually, I can't even see what the point of your post was. Maybe there was
none. I dunno... I am at a loss here.

--- 
Chris
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Preface to Bible-Bashing of Gays
Date: 22 Jul 92 13:31:22 GMT
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ

In article <1992Jul18.214108.14334@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fusco@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Andrew Fusco) writes:
>ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) writes:
>
>
>>Boy, I really like walking around with this beam in my eye grasping at
>>the splinters in yours, such a great game, I wonder why the bible said
>>we weren't supposed to do this?
>
>The Bible merely says we should not "judge" others. It does not state that
>there is no such thing as sin. In fact, while we may not judge others, we
>have an obligation to others to let it be known what is sinful and what isn't.
>I'm not condemning anyone.

Yes you were.  Every word you write drips with judgement and condemnation,
and you stand tall and speaking with assumed authority that YOU know God's
will and you will speak for him on the wickedness of our sins.  You have
nothing Christ-like about you.

Everyone here has heard the argument that we are sinners, so why do you
repeat it?  It cannot be for our benefit, as we have heard it, it can
only be for YOUR benefit.  There is so much of Christ's teachings that
you seem to have no clue about, why are you here calling us sinners when
the beam in your own eye is large enough to blind you.

Ry Schwark
ry@usl.com
From: sej5g@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Susan Elizabeth Juroff)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Preface to Bible-Bashing of Gays
Date: 23 Jul 92 00:43:34 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

So, Andrew, how long have you known that you are a
heterosexual?  When did you tell your mother (or have you
yet?) and how is she taking it?  

Don't talk to me about the public not being able to stomach the
abnormal, man--most people get too used to lying to themselves
about anything uncomfortable at so early an age that they
themselves are not a reliable source.  

--->sej5g
--
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: armitage@ficus.lmc.edu
Subject: Re: [FUTILE POST]:  politics or bitch-fest ?
Organization: Lees-McRae College, Banner Elk, NC
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 22:36:39 GMT

In article <AWERLING.92Jul19163904@dante.nmsu.edu> awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING) writes:

>Gay-related news and politics can be found on soc.motss and GayNet.
>This newsgroup exists for flamewars and bashing.

Thanks for the warning.  I'll stop reading it then.

>--
>Andrew Werling     awerling@nmsu.edu
>Welcome to Planet Yip!  Private Bathrooms for All Visitors.  Lots of
>Lemon Water!  Chastity Belts hanging from every available spot!!!

Char
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Preface to Bible-Bashing of Gays
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:11:26 GMT

In article <21940006@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> jackies@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jackie Sheddy) writes:
>	No, Jess, not all of us are bigots  like  Andy.  I like to think
>	that most of us are reasonable  human beings.  But then, I guess
>	we HAVE to take into  consideration  that he IS a (cough, cough)
>	CATHOLIC.  (Not all  Catholics  are bigoted  assholes  BTW, just
>	some of them.)

Just the "good ones."  Thank God for the bad ones.


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,soc.motss
Subject: Re: *** OFFENSIVE LYRICS ***
Date: 30 Jul 92 23:33:54 GMT
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco

> shore@tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) snarls:

> Geeze, is it freshman orientation week already?  How the
> summer has flown by!

Be nice, Melinda -- it's the middle of winter in Oz.  Perhaps
he needs the flames to keep warm?
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: smorine@nyx.cs.du.edu (Suzanne Morine)
Subject: Re: Preface to Bible-Bashing of Gays
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 21:25:50 GMT

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>In article <1992Jul20.195409.12385@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> in
>alt.politics.homosexuality, smorine@nyx.cs.du.edu (Suzanne
>Morine) writes:

>Responds to a local jackass with (in small part):
>>Now, a clue about *your* behavior is that Jess Anderson is
>>actually flaming.  Congratulations.  What an accomplishment!

>[...] and last week a couple people in soc.motss were
>shocked when I called somebody a fucking asshole.

I about fall out of my chair in amazement every time I see you
flame someone.  I've seen it plenty of times but still it never
fails to floor me.  Maybe it's a first-impression type of thing
from the high number of your non-flame posts - in comparison
to the number of flame posts.  Also, the flames are always very
short, if I remember right.  Mmmm.  Need to update my jess.impressions.

>Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin

--
-Suzanne Morine          smorine@nyx.cs.du.edu
--      "Freezer Burn?  Now there's a chilling thought."     FingerMan(tm)
------
From: buckmr@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Hmm... if the OCA and CFV passes...
Date: 30 Jul 92 22:34:38 GMT

doug@cc.ysu.edu (Doug Sewell) writes:

>.. then will alt.politics.homosexuality and soc.motss be available
>any more at public universities in those states ?
I think not having access to Queer newsgroups will be the LEAST of the
worries of Queers in Colorado and Oregon if the ballot measures pass.

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 54 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C., April 25 1993''
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8919
"Republicans understand the importance of bondage between mother and child."
-- Vice President Dan Quayle
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: pjb4288@ultb.isc.rit.edu (Pete - Toonatic - Boulay)
Subject: Articles needed on ROTC vs Homosexuals/Bisexuals
Originator: pjb4288@ultb
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 03:27:49 GMT

Hello--I FINALLY got here with this.  I figure this is one of the best places
for what I need to say.

Here goes...

My name is Pete Boulay and I am a member of the RIT Commission on Cultural
Diversity.
I am in charge of gathering information to inform the commission on the
rather complicated and controversial issue of the ROTC campus programs'
refusal to allow homosexuals/bisexuals/lesbians. I will take anything...
whether its articles, papers, essays, campus government/administration rulings
   ANYTHING RELEVANT!

The Commission is interested in putting on a day of panels & discussions on
the subject on October 30th, 1992.  

If you have ANYTHING I can use, I would be more than appreciative if you 
could get it to me.  Please follow these directions however...

1) If its 2 pages or less, email it directly to my account at the hopefully
functioning address of pjb4288@ritvax.isc.rit.edu--This differs from the 
account I'm on now-please realize that.

2) If three pages or more, please use the U.S. Postal System and mail it to
Pete Boulay/17 Split Rock Road/Pittsford NY 14534. 

The separation of the lengthy submissions are because I'm going away for
a week and can't afford to have my account crammed when I get back.

In return, I'll forward any decisions by our college and send you a
personalized invitation (OH JOY.) to attend the day of festivities.

Thank you very much ahead of time... I have taken this on solely, and being
disabled, figured this would be the easiest way. Please feel free to post to
Gaynet someone...I don't have access.

Thank you again...

Peter J. Boulay
-- 
Peter J. Boulay --17 Split Rock Road-Pittsford, NY 14534-The ToonAddict!
Email should be sent only to PJB4288@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Disclaimer: You don't like what I'm writing? Oh well.
"Well shut my mouth wide open!"- Tiny Toons HISMV
Xref: sparky alt.politics.homosexuality:5152 talk.abortion:28648
From: elliott@a8.ima.umn.edu (Frank Elliott)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: What *is* Homophobia (formerly: SLAMMING HOMOSEXUALS...)
Date: 24 Jul 92 01:21:55 GMT
Organization: ima

In article <1992Jul24.000327.13800@noao.edu> forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach) writes:
>
>That's exactly right, with one difference.  Condoms were originally made from
>animal intestines (sausage skins), and you can still buy lambskin condoms to
>this day.  However, I beg to differ as to their original purpose.   Since the
>microscope was not yet invented, and bacteria, much less viruses, were not
>yet discovered, and in fact, doctors washing their own hands as a means of
>preventing the spread of disease from one patient to another was not yet even
>considered to be a helpful medical practice, it is clear that the condom's
>original purpose was simply to contain the semen and act as BIRTH control.
>Disease control was not even yet a _concept_.  In modern times, lambskin has
>progressed to rubber, simply because it's cheaper, and it's a mighty flimsy
>piece of rubber at that, to be trusting your life with, don'tcha think?
>
>Suzanne Forgach

You should remember that the concept of a contagious
disease far predates the discovery of any microbe.  Moreover, I remember
reading that Condoms were named after a French doctor who promoted them
as a means of preventing syphillis.  Just as people knew where babies
came from before the sperm was discovered, they knew how syphillis
was transmitted before the spirochete was discovered.

Your grasp of public health and probability astounds me.  For a given
sexual act a condom decreases the probablity of HIV transmission.
Period.  For a given level of sexual activity and a given level of
"promiscuity," (or lack thereof) condoms will reduce the spread of
HIV within the population.  Even if there is a 20-30% probability
of breakage, (which can be decreased through proper use) a broken
condom does not mean that HIV has been transmitted.  This would
only be possible if one of the parties has the virus. This, in
itself would be much less likely if condoms, possibly in addition
to other means of birth control, were used except when conception
was _intended_.

I know this is anathema to you.  Every sperm is sacred! Every
sperm is good!

Coercive means of changing behavior have not worked; in fact, they've
contributed in no small part to this crisis and to several others,
the Holocaust included.  Coercive tactics drive this disease underground
where it is harder to fight, and it is harder to help those afflicted
with it.  We should learn from the Dutch who have the lowest incidence
of HIV infection, illegitmate birth, and abortion in Europe (source CNN)
along with the most progressive sex and drug education policies.

How much higher does the body count have to get?

-- Frank
From: sej5g@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Susan Elizabeth Juroff)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Sexual Deviance & Christian Forgiveness
Date: 28 Jul 92 02:31:19 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

charlie...

Some Catholics are monogamous and faithful, asking no human
forgiveness for what they understand is not a sin against God.  

I just want us to keep track of this in the midst of the bitter
hypocrisy and violent crime cited above. 



--->sej5g
--
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: zane@ddsw1.mcs.com (Sameer Parekh)
Subject: Re: Supporting people in a homophobic high school
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 03:11:09 GMT
X-Disclaimer:  Material posted in this article is the sole responsibility of
                the poster and does not represent MCSNet or the system owners.


	Thanks to EVERYONE for sending me their thoughts on this.. Thanks!


In article <1992Jul19.153008.4328@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>
>How can I get involved in your partnership for a free america?
	I'll be posting soon (all over the place) information about the
Partnership.

-- 
  _Sameer_Parekh_zane@ddsw1.MCS.COM_zane@infopls.chi.il.us__________________
 / STOP The War on Rights          | | Restore liberty in the United States \
 | "Specialization is for Insects" | | Vote Libertarian 1992          ______/
 \________- Robert A. Heinlein_____/ \_ap.2363@cupid.sai.com (anon)__/
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: smorine@nyx.cs.du.edu (Suzanne Morine)
Subject: Re: Preface to Bible-Bashing of Gays
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 21:08:22 GMT

smorine@nyx.cs.du.edu (I) write:

>As for what has been presented, the trend is disturbing.  Arguments
>have expanded from dismissing gay people to dismissing anyone whose life
>choices don't offend anyone in any way.
         ^^^^^(delete)
WOOPS.  I meant "whose life choices offend anyone in any way"

--
-Suzanne Morine          smorine@nyx.cs.du.edu
--      "Freezer Burn?  Now there's a chilling thought."     FingerMan(tm)
------
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality