HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jeff@unix386.Convergent.COM (Jeff Beckmann)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: heavy bags
Summary: need advice on heavy bags
Keywords: heavy bags
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:43:20 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Unisys/Convergent, San Jose, CA

I need some advice about heavy bags.  I want to hang one in my garage.

1) I haven't seen leather bags.  Do they exist?  Are they extremely
   expensive?

2) Canvas v.s. the plastic/vinyl bag.  What are the tradeoffs?  They
   seem to be about the same price.  Which one will last longer?

3) Where do I hang it?  Should it be right against a wall, a foot or
   so away, or hanging free?  I will probably be working it alone most
   of the time (no one to hold).  I'm thinking of having two hanging
   mounts: one for solo work and one for working with a friend.  My
   dojo has them strapped to a standing board.  Kind of like strapping
   it to a tree.  The board flexes a little if you hit the bag HARD.
   It is easy to use the dojo bag solo because of this.  I have never
   used a free hanging bag, so I don't know how much of a problem the
   swinging is (and having to stop after every hit to steady the bag).

4) Weight and size.  I want to use the bag for kick and punch work.
   This includes knee and elbow.  I'm thinking of about 80 pounds,
   which appears to be about 4 feet in length.  Does this sound right?
   I've seen some bags that are about 140 pounds and around 6 feet tall.
   I've seen the 80 pound bags (canvas or vinyl) for about $90, while
   the real tall bag I saw was vinyl and cost about $300.


Thanks
Jeff
From: ph2sct@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Dzu Nguyen)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Chi Kung for use Martially
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:10:28 GMT

Recently I've started practicing Tai Chi and started learning Chi
Kung. Through my Aikido sensei, I've heard of Kung Fu schools that
use Chi Kung like a dim mak/poison palm where the sifu strikes a
student as part of the students training and teh student would die
if the sifu didn't use herbs, teas, accupuncture, etc. to fix the
disruption. I've also heard of teachers who are able to trigger
nerve points with a single touch and completely disable parts of the
body. I'm interested in both the martial aspect and the healing
aspect of this part of the Arts. If anyone can direct me to any
teachers or turn me onto any new information....

Dave (using Dzu's account)
From: garry@alice.att.com (garry hodgson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Drugs & Fighting (was Finishing techniques)
Summary: don't believe everything you hear
Keywords: khat, propaganda
Date: 17 Dec 92 16:05:05 GMT
Reply-To: garry@alice.UUCP ()
Distribution: rec
Organization: AT&T, Bell Labs

kevin@pages.com (Kevin Sven Berg) writes:

  This reminds me that there are and have been many cultures that have
  mixed drugs and fighting application.

  Recently we hear of a narcotic being used in Samalian gunmen.

According to the disussion on talk.politics.drugs, this is bogus.
Some excerpts:

	In article <??>, bell@liszt (Andrew Bell) writes:
	At least NPR did have one guy who explained that it was
	almost exactly like a cup of strong coffee in its effects,
	and that he had actually tried it.  One wonders if he'll
	get fired for violating any sort of "Drug-free workplace" rules...

	In article <??>, kathy@xn writes:

	That's interesting.  I heard an interview of WBZ
	(a Boston news/talk radio station) a couple of nights
	ago, with a local expert on the area.  Unfortunately
	the man's name is escaping me.  The commentator asked
	about this "drug" he'd heard talked about the night
	before on Nightline, in the context of discussing how
	foolish we were to be getting involved there.  The expert,
	who had traveled extensively in the area, as well as in
	Ethiopia, Kenya and some other neighboring areas, said
	repeatedly that his experience with people using the drug
	was that it tended to make them idolent rather than
	violent or paranoid, as the news coverage was suggesting.

Just thought ya'd like to know.

Of course, this has no bearing on the other examples you mentioned.
And our miitary certainly has used amphetamines to keep pilots awake
on long flights.  I expect some soldiers also use it for similar
reason in combat, though probably not as part of official policy.

-- 
Garry Hodgson			A slow winter day
AT&T Bell Labs			A night like forever
garry@alice.att.com		Sink like a stone
att!alice!garry			Float like a feather
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Looking for Jujitsu school
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:28:11 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com's message of 16 Dec 92 15:59:23 GMT


In article <1992Dec16.155923.24994@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:

   In article <BzB61B.EEx@apollo.hp.com> stave@apollo.hp.com writes:
   >After 12 years of TKD I'm changing styles.  From what I have
   >heard about it Jujitsu sounds like it may be the style I am
   >looking for.  Does anyone out there know of a school in the
   >Nashua NH to Milford NH area?  How about the Lowell MA area?
   >
   >As always, any information will win my undying gratitude.

	   How about Framingham?  If acceptable, you could try Tony Anessi
	   at 21 Blandin av.  Tony is quite accomplished, and his style is
	   very much to the soft side of things.  His dojo is real nice
	   nad clean and BIG (2000 sq ft mat!).

	   Sorry, but I do not have his # handy right off, but if you want it,
	   drop me a line and I'll dig it up.

The school's name is Bushido-Kai.  They're in the yellow pages.  

I used to sort of sort of sort of train here...that is to say, my jo 
teacher used to rent space from Tony and teach there.  I never studied 
any of the unarmed styles offered by the school, or even saw a class
because we'd practice at odd hours, but it seemed like a good place.  
It had the right kind of energy (eek, crystals!).  
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: lchurch2@bluemoon.use.com (Leonard Church)
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 16:35:32 EST

todd@reed.edu (Todd Ellner) writes:

> What techniques would you use if you _really_ had to stop someone?
> If the proverbial 7'-300lb-PCP using-steroid monkey-whose spent half
> his life in Folsom prison-and wants to rip your lungs out was in the
> alley with you and you could set up one or two shots what would they
> be? No guns or knives allowed.
> 
> I know that it depends on the situation, the range, and a lot of other
> things and that no one with any sense would hit just once or twice; what
> are the first couple techniques that come to mind?
> 
> For me the Thai kick to the inside of the knee, elbow to the side or
> back of the neck (while holding the head in the other hand), and maybe
> head butt to the temple immediately spring to the fore.
> -- 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Todd Ellner  todd@reed.edu 
> "What has the study of biology taught you about the Creator Dr. Haldane?"
> JBS Haldane:"I'm not sure, but He seems to be inordinately fond of beetles."

For me ... I would probably use and uppercut-type thumbjoint ridgehand to 
the groin or ]the area between genitals and anus.  Followed by a headlock 
and a simultaneous reverse suplex.  At least that is what I did on the 
only occasion that something similar to this happened to me.

Leonard Church

-------------------------------------------------------------
Growing trees in a concrete Jungle | lchurch2@bluemoon.rn.com
-------------------------------------------------------------
From: dsr@bnr.co.uk (D.S.Riches)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Judo Esoterica
Date: 18 Dec 1992 18:15:24 GMT
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, London Road, Harlow, England.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.199.202.51

In article <1992Dec18.154909.29918@ms.uky.edu> satadd00@nx13.mik.uky.edu (scott andrew taddiken) writes:
>In article <129670004@otter.hpl.hp.com> ber@otter.hpl.hp.com (Brenda Romans) writes:
>>
>>If the opponent takes an over-the-shoulder grip on my left shoulder and
>Brenda!  You've discovered yoko-guruma!  See the yoko-sutemi-waza portion of

Ummm, are you sure?  Perhaps I'm visualising something else.  Brenda,
where do you put your feet when you're doing this?
   Dave Riches
   Email:  David.S.Riches@bnr.co.uk
   Smail:  BNR Europe Ltd, London Road,
           Harlow, Essex. CM17 9NA.  England
   Phone:  +44 (0)279-402496
   Fax:    +44 (0)279-451434
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: How long is a string?  Was Re: belt colors in this newsgroup
Date: 13 Dec 92 16:16:50 GMT
	<MARY.92Dec5213650@martinique.Cayman.COM>
	<1992Dec12.105521@ee.egr.duke.edu>
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: wrankin@ee.egr.duke.edu's message of 12 Dec 92 15:55:21 GMT


In article <1992Dec12.105521@ee.egr.duke.edu> wrankin@ee.egr.duke.edu (William T. Rankin) writes:

[snip]

   BTW, Mary, *how* long *are* your legs?... :-)
   (duck!  no, run!, no, duck then run! no... (crunch!<thud>)

32" inseam.  In other words...heh heh heh...long enough.


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Agreed: rec.martial-arts hierarchy
Date: 21 Dec 92 01:05:05 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <MfB_YP_00iUyI1GmkH@andrew.cmu.edu> sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stephen Chan) writes:
>
>    Sheeesh...this "break up rec.martial-arts" thing won't die, will it?
[...]
>    Compartmentalizing MA discussions only perpetuates this kind of
>stuff. While some folks may find it more convenient to have everything
>handed to them, I think that we're all better off for having an open
>forum where people in style X get to throw in their input on what folks
>from style Y are saying.
>    I'd rather do a little more work, than put on blinders.

I entirely agree. I am far more interested in reading the informed
opinions of people trained in a variety of fighting arts than in
establishing some sort of style-oriented fiefdoms.

We doesn't a knowledgeable net-hand just post information on how to
create and maintain a mailing list, so that the unregenerate
splitters can set up lists about their favorite insular topics?
In the meantime the rest of us can continue to enjoy and benefit
from a more cosmopolitan forum.

I will say this: if the matter ever comes to a Call for Votes, I
will definitely vote against splitting rec.martial-arts, and will
lobby everyone who will listen to do the same.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: Looking for Jujitsu school
Organization: Twilight Zone
Distribution: ne
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:59:23 GMT

In article <BzB61B.EEx@apollo.hp.com> stave@apollo.hp.com writes:
>After 12 years of TKD I'm changing styles.  From what I have
>heard about it Jujitsu sounds like it may be the style I am
>looking for.  Does anyone out there know of a school in the
>Nashua NH to Milford NH area?  How about the Lowell MA area?
>
>As always, any information will win my undying gratitude.

	How about Framingham?  If acceptable, you could try Tony Anessi
	at 21 Blandin av.  Tony is quite accomplished, and his style is
	very much to the soft side of things.  His dojo is real nice
	nad clean and BIG (2000 sq ft mat!).

	Sorry, but I do not have his # handy right off, but if you want it,
	drop me a line and I'll dig it up.

	Hope this helps.  Happy holidays!

	-Andy V.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: "elliott chapin" <elliott.chapin@canrem.com>
Subject: wu tcc
Reply-To: "elliott chapin" <elliott.chapin@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 12 Dec 92 10:05:12 EST

TO: wut@acf3.NYU.EDU

Would you (including Benjamin, perhaps) like me to pass along greetings
to the Wu family school in Toronto?

Elliott Chapin
---
  DeLuxe 1.12 #4315  elliott.chapin@canrem.com
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Subject: Re: Please list hapkido belts and stages
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:28:54 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.215317@IASTATE.EDU> prspring@IASTATE.EDU (Paul R Springer) writes:
>In message 25296 shulick@navajo.ucs.india writes:
>
>>Could someone please post a list (in the right order, of course) of
>>belts in hapkido?

>The order is as follows:
>White, Orange, Green, Blue, Brown, Red, Black(1st deg recommended),
>Black (1st deg decided...10th deg)
>
>Also, there are separate ranks within each belt level, such as at Orange there
>is 8th degree decided, 7th degree recommended and 7th degree decided, but we
>don't mark those differences.  We are a specific color, no tape to mark the
>differences or anything like that.  The only difference between lower and upper
>belts (aside from skill and belt color :-) is that at Brown belt and higher you
>get to wear black pants instead of while pants.  Also, the 1st degree Black
>recommended is a rank that has a separate belt like the others, it is half red
>and half black.
>
>Note that this is only at might dojang, and not necessarily the case everywhere.

I guess so!  I recently looked at a book about hapkido, and the author said
that in Korea, there are only four belt colors: white, blue, red, and black.
There are additional dan levels of black (up to eight or so).  Of course,
each dojang can do as the master wishes, and the US is known for being much
less tradition-bound than Asia.

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@tti.com  (that's MISTER reid@tti.com to you!)
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: rick@sq.sq.com (Rick Innis)
Subject: T'ai Chi, Toronto area?
Followup-To: poster
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, Canada
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 22:23:31 GMT


I'm looking for a good T'ai Chi class in the Toronto area.  "Good" can be
defined as "taught by someone with a thorough knowledge of the various forms
and their self-defence applications." 

Failing that, can anyone recommend a good class for someone with a couple of
years of (Wu Tan) T'ai Chi behind them?  I'm proficient in the hand form,
and a beginner with the spear.  I'd be interested in trying out a Kung Fu or
Aikido style if I can't find a T'ai Chi class that suits me. (or that I
suit...)

	--Rick.
-- 
Rick Innis
SoftQuad Inc.           "Have you seen the secret of the Universe?"  said 
rick@sq.com             Zebedee, arriving.  "I know I left it here somewhere."
+1 (416) 239 4801
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jchristian@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: stranglehold
Date: 17 Dec 92 02:25:50 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

In article <1992Dec15.111601.13097@ms.uky.edu>, taddiken@ms.uky.edu (scott taddiken) writes:
> In article <1992Dec12.013515.6182@desire.wright.edu> jchristian@desire.wright.edu writes:
>>
>>If you've never experienced a really good stranglehold, try to get someone to
>>perform it on you.  If you feel like your throat's being mangled after just one
>>second, then the other person is doing it right.
>>
> 
> Warfie is more than capable of defending himself, but might not this time out
> of humility.  Insinuating that Warfie hasn't ever experienced a really good
> stranglehold is like insinuating that Germans drink watered down beer.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Scott Taddiken, University of Kentucky
> 


Insinuating nothing.  But just because someone performs a technique differently
than you do is a poor basis for assuming that the technique is wrong.  My only
point is that it is possible to experience a really good stranglehold that
makes your throat feel mangled after about one second.  Just because some
people don't choke people judo-style doesn't mean that their chokes aren't
going to work (sorry to break the news to you, Warfie).

There seems to be too quick a tendency sometimes on this newsgroup for people
to say "You're wrong" to others without trying to understand what bugs them
about the other person's comments.  I'm telling you Warfie, I have been
practicing a martial art for ten years that emphasizes efficient body dynamics
and de-emphasizes strength, and this particular stranglehold does not require
great strength.  Its effect is pretty much the same as some of the more
sophisticated arm-chokes, the kinds where you either react right away or you
don't react at all.

I don't doubt that Warfie has a great deal of experience in being strangled,
probably more than me.  I never intended to imply that he lacked experience in
the subject.  But again (and for the last time, I promise!), you can get your
throat mangled on a stranglehold within one second.  Case closed.

Jeff
From: fitikl@uta.fi (Timo Klemola)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Funakoshi, Gichin: Karate-do Kyohan
Date: 18 Dec 92 15:25:38 GMT
Organization: University of Tampere, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ackerman@helix.nih.gov (Eric Ackerman)
Subject: aikido in florida
Organization: NIH
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:38:26 GMT

Does anyone know of an aikido dojo in Melbourne, Florida that
welcomes short-term visitors?  If not, how about Miami?

Thanks.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: prspring@IASTATE.EDU (Paul R Springer)
Subject: Re: Please list hapkido belts and stages
Reply-To: prspring@IASTATE.EDU (Paul R Springer)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 03:53:17 GMT

In message 25296 shulick@navajo.ucs.india writes:

>Could someone please post a list (in the right order, of course) of
>belts in hapkido?  And please list the stages that come after black
>belt.  Thanks!  And please post it.  I don't want to receive like 6 or
>10 e-mail messages all saying the same thing.  Thanks.

The order is as follows:
White, Orange, Green, Blue, Brown, Red, Black(1st deg recommended),
Black (1st deg decided...10th deg)

Also, there are separate ranks within each belt level, such as at Orange there
is 8th degree decided, 7th degree recommended and 7th degree decided, but we
don't mark those differences.  We are a specific color, no tape to mark the
differences or anything like that.  The only difference between lower and upper
belts (aside from skill and belt color :-) is that at Brown belt and higher you
get to wear black pants instead of while pants.  Also, the 1st degree Black
recommended is a rank that has a separate belt like the others, it is half red
and half black.

Note that this is only at might dojang, and not necessarily the case everywhere.
Hope this helps.

Paul R. Springer                 Ninja don't exist,
prspring@iastate.edu             as any good ninja will tell you ;-)
From: heller@luna.think.com (Steve Heller)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: What's the point
Date: 20 Dec 92 11:31:13
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: luna.think.com
In-reply-to: robin2@garfield.cs.mun.ca's message of Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:03:06 GMT


   I do believe in using your abilities for defense only, but it still
   comes down to being the best fighter you can be.  Doesn't it? 

   Robin Collier
   robin2@garfield.cs.mun.ca

I sometimes feel that your espoused view is shared by many.  Allow me to
embellish a bit.  The following may or may not accurate reflect Robin's
actual position, but I'd like to start with what I have found to be a
widely shared stance.

I get the reaction from many (independent of style, age and experience
level) that sparring/fighting is the end goal.  That basic excercises and
forms are really vehicles for learning to fight, and that becoming a good
fighter is the main point of practicing martial arts.  Almost evryone is
quick to point out that ther are other benefits, such as confidence and
health that come as part of the package.

I fundamentally disagree that fighting ability is near the top of the list
in what martial arts are all about.  Certainly martial arts are about self
defense, but in most situations, physical interaction can be avioded
entirely by not physical skills, especially confidence and awareness.  The
sparring that most people do in most classes I've seen have more to do with
fancy counters to fancy attacks.  Noone on the street is going to do a hook
kick that you can get inside of to blast them.

So, where does the confidence come from?  Self defense drills like one-step
and three step, and simplified sparring excercises where one party is
restricted to stuff that could possibly come at you in the real world are
good.  Fancy techniques are good to develop a fine balance, control, and
"art."

But, I don't think that's "what it's all about" either.  I think it's all
about life long excercise and respect.  Learning to warm up before
straining, and learning that no matter how much you know, you know nothing
in comparison with what's out there.  I was joking with the brown belts in
class the other night (who need to be bashed every once in a while) and
explaining that the more you learned, the less you knew.  Then it made
sense.  The more one learns, the more one learns of things that one doesn't
know about, so one knows a smaller fraction of the techniques that one is
aware of.

When I had just gotten my black belt, I had the fortune to practice and
dine with my master on a regular basis.  All the black belts in my area
practiced and dined with Mr. Son (TKD) every week.  Being the youngest
present, I was often the target of lessons.  Mr. Son emphasized hard
practice, and respect --- everything else took care of itself.  It's been a
while, so this is my romanticised memory.

This stream of consciousness just ran dry ...

-steve  (steve heller  ---  heller@think.com)
From: rterry@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Ray Terry)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:02:28 GMT
Subject: Re: Just Curious...
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts

>TKD new? No, sorry, I don't think so. TKD is one of the oldest martial arts 
>in Asia, tracing its origins from the 1st C. BC or earlier.

Not trying to beat this into the ground (as earlier posts already correct this 
misconception), but given the current state of the literature it is easy
for one to come to this conclusion.  Much of the authoritative literature
on Korean martial arts, e.g. Choi's "Taekwon-Do", Kee's "Tang Soo Do (Soo
Bahk Do)", etc., all pretty much begin by giving all martial arts a common
name.  Choi names all martial arts Taekwon-Do, Kee names all martial arts
Soo Bahk Do.  They then go on to trace the history of Taekwon-Do/Soo Bahk Do,
etc.  Thus when they claim "that Taekwon-Do can be traced back to X BC" all
they are really saying is that martial arts can be traced back to that time.

The Koreans, as do the Japanese and Chinese and ..., like to claim that they
can trace the martial arts "in their homeland" back to some very early date
in history.  For some reason they all want to be able to claim that martial
arts were born there.  Does it really matter?  IMHO, no, it doesn't.  An
older martial art is not necessarily a more effective martial art....

Ray
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts