From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: Autopsy - Kahane and Rosenbaum
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 03:09:33 GMT

In <1992Dec24.003717.5186@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake
Livni) writes:

>>Jake, let's get this straight once and for all: YOU brought up the
>>comparison, not me.  And my response to YOUR raising of the issue was
>>that Kahane's policies have similarities to those of Muslim
>>Fundamentalists.

>And they have differences, as well.  The differences far outweigh any
>similarities.  There is simply no comparison between an extremist like
>Kahane and even the so-called moderates in the Arab world, not to
>mention the tyrants and terrorists.

You can't say there is "no" comparison, when I have shown that there
are several points of comparison.

[Kahane and Arabs]
>>No, he just proposed kicking them out or stripping them of civil
>>rights.  He magnanimously gave them the choice between the two.

>Incorrect.  He offered them the option of living in Israel according
>to the rules of behavior that are accepted in Israel

That is untrue.  He offered them the option of living in Israel with
no right to vote, no right to form political parties, and no rights
to decide their future.  Those are not the rules of behaviour currently
accepted in Israel; they are the rules of behaviour which Kahane wanted
to impose.  There's a big difference.

>or of going to an
>Arab state where they would be free to behave in a manner more
>acceptable in Arab society.

>>He never gained power.  Remember, power corrupts... while Saddam was a
>>nobody, he also didn't go around threatening people.  He bided his time.

>Incorrect.  Saddam Hussein wasn't voted into office.  He took it by
>force, personally killing many people along the way.  Kahane did, in
>fact, gain power; he was elected into it.

The power which Kahane gained was negligible in comparison to Saddam's
power.  And we even saw Kahane abusing the little power he had - remember,
he claimed parliamentary immunity in order to get away with some pretty
inflammatory things, including conducting marches into Arab towns.

>>He never gained power.

>The leader of a political party who is a Member of Knesset makes for
>an odd example of someone who "never gained power".

>David, you are simply trying to wheedle your way out of comparing
>Kahane to some of the worst tyrants in the Arab world.  You're just
>plain wrong.  One doesn't have to be a Kach-nik to see this.

Well, to quote someone on soc.culture.jewish:  You're entitled to
your opinion, Jake.  Even if you're wrong. :-)

>>Fine, you're entitled to your opinion.  I don't demonize Kahane; I just
>>state the fact that his policies are (1) racist and (2) extremely dangerous
>>to the survival of Israel.

>You've stated them but have not substantiated them at all.

I have shown that, under any reasonable definition of racism, the
Kach platform is racist.  I did it in article <dfs.721347698@ro>, which
I will e-mail to Jake or repost, according to his choice.

I also showed that there is great precedence for danger to Israel
if a program of "ethnic cleansing" (which is what Kach proposes)
is carried out.  We only have to look at the international reaction
to Yugoslavia to see that.

>You haven't shown that removing trouble-makers from inside Israel will
>make things worse, as you assert again.

Note Jake's switch:  I was talking about expulsion of Arabs, and
he is talking about expulsion of trouble-makers.  Thus, he has set up
a straw man, which is not worth responding to.

>In fact, the recent expulsion
>orders by the fairly Left-Wing Israeli government seems to reject your
>arguments, too.

Well, let's wait and see what happens.  I certainly have no sympathy
for Hamas, but the political ramifications of the Israeli Government's
move have yet to be determined.

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________

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