From: philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 04 Sep 92 18:04:50 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Sep4.024603.18373@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>First  of all, the referenced article, and others like it, are totally
>inappropriate for rec.scouting.  I have asked the most blatant of those
>who have abused rec.scouting for the purpose of publishing and advertising
>the gay rights agenda to please stop doing so and observe the rules
>of netiquette that (1) restricts postings to be consistent with the
>group's purpose, and (2) asks that crosspostings be limited to those
>news groups that are relevant to the discussion.

      Read the rec.scouting charter.  The discussion is totally
appropriate.


>suitability to work with children.  And  the FACT is that nobody's
>view is going to change!!  And the second FACT is that BIGOT, BIGOT,
>BIGOT is going to be answered with just as loud DEVIANT, DEVIANT,
>DEVIANT.

     Do you really believe that no one can be influenced by this
debate?  What of the boys in the BSA who are being exposed to all
of the bigots and none of the "deviants"?  Which side do you
expect them to take in your shouting match?


>So folks, let just cool it on rec.scouting and let BSA provide a
>program for the boys based on decent, proper, positive, moral
>values and attributes.  If you want to join, you know the rules;
>specifically, that you agree to live by the Scout Oath and Scout
>Law.

     It has not been clearly demonstrated, by you or anyone else,
that homosexuality or atheism is incompatible with the Scout Oath
or Scout Law.
     Also, the essence of this debate is whether the BSA is
providing "decent, proper, positive moral values", or whether it
is teaching bigotry and intolerance.


>Andrew Werling writes:
>>
>>Guess what, Karen.  Kick out a gay scoutmaster, what are you teaching
>>your children?  That it's okay to bash people for NO reason!
>
>NO, what you're teaching the children is that adult leaders are expected
>to present POSITIVE values to children, and we've already been through
>this time and time again on rec.scouting.  You've made you statement,
>you've gotten your answer, and I'm very sorry it's not the answer you
>want to hear, but it doesn't change reality.

     Please explain why a gay scoutmaster can not present positive
values to children.  Be specific.


>Oh yeah, I forgot.  Decency and morality aren't politically correct
>anymore.   I'm very sorry that you've chosen a lifestyle outside
>the mainstream, and while it is your personal right, it doesn't
>mean that it's morally correct or morally acceptable, which is the
>ONLY issue that's relevant on rec.scouting.

     That is quote obviously not the only issue.  This entire debate
centers around the right of the BSA to receive moneys from organizations
with strong non-discrimination policies.  I've seen evidence of the
blatant dishonesty of the BSA in this respect which has yet to be
answered.


>They made their choice, and they're entitled to the protection of
>our laws, but what does that have to do with BSA and rec.scouting?

     Are you saying that you support gay rights laws?  Those laws
will undoubtedly impact scouting in some way.  They already are, in
at least one state.
     

>There's nothing to cure; it's consistent with our society's moral
>standards.  Why should we want to cure it (but again, this is not
>appropriate for rec.scouting; it's a gay rights, not a BSA,
>issue).

       Well, if you argue that a gay scoutmaster is inappropriate
because of those "moral standards", then it certainly becomes a
BSA issue.
     Is there a place where I can look up the rest of the "moral
standards" that are acceptable in our "society"?

					-Phil



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Lafornara         				1 Microsoft Way         
philipla@microsoft.com				Redmond, WA 98052-6399 
Note:  Microsoft doesn't even _know_ that these are my opinions. So there.
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.homosexuality