From: as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (andrew david simchik)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: I like Ace, dag-nabbit!
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:25:46 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <1992Nov8.170523.8504@iscsvax.uni.edu> morgans@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

>In article <1992Nov8.212603.2978@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>, as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (andrew david simchik) writes:
>> In <1992Nov8.133755.8498@iscsvax.uni.edu> morgans@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>> 
>> 
>> I don't care whether I can relate to Ace.  I care whether I like her or find
>> her interesting.  This is what makes a memorable character, as opposed to an
>> identifiable character.

>But would not an identifiable character tend to also be a memorable one?

Not necessarily.

>> 
>> Again...I don't care.  Romana and Leela had it all over this pouting,
>> sullen, thoroughly irritating little brat.  Dysfunctional family or no,
>> screaming or no, she was just an abrasive character.

>Are you saying that Romana wasn't sullen?  Romana I and II tended to be 
>boorish, overbearing and often annoying.  That was fine, they were supposed 
>to play off the anarchy of the Doctor.  And sometimes it makes life a 
>little interesting if you're abrasive - it can be annoying, but it can also 
>be interesting - just depends on how the abrassion rubs you.(?!)

"Boorish?"  ROMANA?!  No, no, no, no, no.  Not at all.  I'm a little biased
as she was one of my favorite companions, but one thing she was NOT was
boorish.  Look it up.
Romana was never sullen.  Pensive, brooding, but never sullen.

>> She's still worse than Adric.  Adric had a certain boyish charm when at his
>> best.  Ace, at *her* best, simply used ridiculous expressions of approval
>> at which I spent lots of time snickering ("ace," "wicked").

>Just because you are unfamiliar with the lingo, does that make it so awful? 
>Does every utterance have to make sense?  Does it have to jive with your 
>grammatical knowledge?  This is a show produced in a another country 
>afterall, it took me awhile to figure out what the hell a Gordon Bennett 
>was, and what that phrase meant.  Adric never came off to me as charming, 
>he tended to be too much like the Romana's - smug and he certainly had his 
>pouty bouts also.

The lingo was ludicrous and sounded like a fogie's attempt to modernize a
character.  Whether the slang was authentic or not did not change the fact
that Ace sounded ridiculous saying it.
Your character analyses re: Romana do not impress me, so I can see how you
might not see Adric as charming.


>> This might have been nice if (a) she were charming enough for us to care
>> about her hangups, and (b) these hangups were resolved.  As far as I can
>> tell, her major step forward was losing her fear of water.  That's character
>> development?

>Oh boy, you certainly didnt watch or listen to the episodes (putting aside 
>the sound quality, which did suck in several of them).  She did not have a 
>fear of water!  That was a symbolic act (diving into the water at the end 
>of C. of Fenric), not trying to overcome aquaphobia.  There were other 
>things that she feared and had hangups about - but I have already mentioned 
>those.

Oh boy, yes I did!!!  I knew someone would pounce on that.  Of course it was
a symbolic act; the fear itself was symbolic.  That is why I used the phrase
"fear of water" instead of "aquaphobia".

>> 
>>>Okay, there it is, some of my rationalizations for liking the character of 
>>>Ace, McCoy's Doctor and the whole damn show.  And if you are going to 
>>>followup, plllllleeeeeeaaaaaaasssssseeeeeee  edit down the text, I am 
>>>getting tired of reading too much stuff in these debates.
>> 
>> Too bad, deal with it.  If you don't want to read, don't bother to post.
>> 

>That is just a simple courtesy to others on the net, who have to pay 
>(directly) for their access, unlike those who get accounts for being 
>enrolled at a university, working for a corporation or having access 
>through a government branch.  Read the rules of "Netiquette" (sic) for more 
>information on this.

Excuse me.  I was insensitive and did not bother to consider this.  I shall
endeavor to change my behavior on this point (though not now).

>> And may I point out that a million points of logic will not help me like
>> Ace.  I doubt that you care...so you can drop it unless you have a stronger
>> purpose in mind than changing my opinion.  It seems everyone but me loves
>> the little strumpet so why are you arguing?  I'm a Scorpio, I'm too stubborn
>> for this sort of thing to work.  :)

>I know that I can not change your opinion, I am just putting out another 
>opinion for people to hash over.  Little strumpet?  Perhaps there is a 
>deeper reason for you to dislike the character, since your choice of words 
>is rather abusive.  

No, I just dislike her.  Strumpet was the cleanest word I found to put on
this channel (I think I had used brat).  I might be less abusive if I
weren't sick of hearing her virtues extolled.  UGH!

>I am also a Scorpio.

Small world.

>Siobahn (Shabang) Morgan
>morgans@iscsvax.uni.edu

>Gosh, I do love these stimulating discussions!  At least it gets me away 
>from any real work....

Me, too...I should return to my English paper...