From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Nabeel Ghuzlaan)
Subject: Re: Death of Jesus (peace be on him)
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 17:30:40 GMT

umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Nasir Ahmed Noor) writes:

>Asslam-o-Alaikum,

   Sure, thanks.

>[A]. Non Ahmadi Muslims believe that Jesus ascended to God and is still alive 
>there. Christians believe Jesus to be God and also say he is still alive. The
>Quran however says that persons worshipped as Gods besides Allah are "dead 
>not living, and they know not when they shall be raised (16:21)."  
>Hence non-Ahmadis end up supporting the Christian view of the Divine Jesus 
>and they do not even know it.
> 
   Since this was revealed in Mecca, it most probably refers to idols. How
about if some people worship there imperor, is he dead?

>[B]. The Quran states:  "O Jesus I will cause thee to die and exalt thee to 
>myself, and will clear thee of the charges of those who disbelieve.."(3:55)
> 
   The word "mutawaffeeka" does not necessarily mean cause_you_to_die. It
originally means taking_you, but later was used often to mean death. Even,
it he died, why is it impossible that he descend as promised by Muhammad
(PBUH) in many Sahih Hadiths?

>[C]. On the Day of Judgement God will say to Jesus:  "Didst thou say to men,
>take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?  He will answer, Holy art 
>thou, I could never say that to which I had no right.  If I had said it, 
>Thou wouldst have surely known it...And I was a witness over them as long as 
>I remained among them, but since Thou didst cause me to die, Thou hast been 
>the Watcher over them (5:116-117).

   The same argument holds about "tawaffaitani".
 
>The verse proves: 
>     1). Corruption of Christian doctrine took place after the death of 
>         Jesus.  
>     2). If Jesus were still alive (as most non Ahmadis believe), 
>         Christianity would still exist in its pure form.

   That is if he was still alive amongst them.

>     3). The verse also proves that the same Jesus will not appear a second
>         time in this world, as he would then become aware of the mentioned 
>         corruption and could not, therefore, plead ignorance in front of 
>         God's judgement seat.
>

   He did not plead ignorance, but he said, he witnessed them as long as he
was with them, otherwise, God was there to watch. Even when descending the
second time and knowing about the corruption, he still do not bear
responsibility for it and did not witness its start.

>[D]. One one occasion, the enemies of the Holy Prophet challenged him that
>they will not believe in him unless he "ascend up into heaven" and "send 
>down to us a Book (17:93)."  The Prophet replied:  "Holy is my Lord! I am 
>but a mortal sent as a messenger (17:93)."  The Prophets of Allah, like all 
>other human beings, live and die on earth.  If you believe Jesus is still
>alive beyond the stratosphere, he must be more than a mortal.

   How did you arrive to this? We do not say he won't die for ever or he will
stay there for ever.

>Incidentally,
>Ahmadi Muslims believe the Miraj was a spiritual phenomenon, not a 
>physical one.
>
   I.e. Ahmadis are Infidels! Interesting. Why would Meccas polytheists
deny the possibility of Isra' and Miraj if it was a spiritual experience?
Did not he describe the Holy Mosque in Jerusalem to them? Did not he see
the camel comboy? Thanks for showing that you are nonbelievers, you saved
us a lot.

>[E]. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: 
>     1)  "If Moses and Jesus were alive, they would have been obliged to
>         follow me (Kathir and al-Yawaqit wal Jawahir vol. 2, page 245).

   I.e. if catched him on Earth if that Hadith is not fabricated anyway, since
you did not quote a Sahih reference.

>     2)  "Verily, Jesus son of Mary lived for 120 years 
>                (Kanz-ul-Ummal, Part 6 page 120)."

   If this is not fabricated then it is highly corrupted, what reference is
Kanz-ul-Ummal? You know we do not believe everything just because it is
written somewhere.

>     3)  In Bukhari, it is reported that in the Miraj, the Prophet saw
>         Yahya and Jesus in the second heaven.  If Yahya is dead, then Jesus
>         is dead, for the dead do not keep company with the living.

   How interesting! You are subjecting God's business to your logic. Can you
prove that? Especially that you know that death is just a transfer from
temporal life to eternal life through the grave bridge with a lot of fire
or heaven. Weren't martyrs declared to be alive beside God? Why can't prophets
be so? [I am not saying that they are or not, but showing you a logical
possibility, just to shake you up a bit.]

>Regards,
>Nasir Ahmed Noor
>umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca

**Nabeel