HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: irwin@uvmark.uucp (Frank Irwin)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Want to buy casino hardware!
Date: 26 Aug 92 14:24:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: uvmark.1992Aug26.142419.4775
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <64673@cup.portal.com> TRADER@cup.portal.com (Paul Vincent McGinnis) writes:
>A previous post mentioned that casinos are going bankrupt in Vegas and
>Reno and you can get equipment from them. I happened to be in Vegas
>last summer when the Landmark had its liquidation sale - I think other
>casinos must have picked up most of the gambling equipment, because all
>they had was mostly hotel furnishings (beds, lamps, etc.) 

It's about time.  They went out of business 2-3 years ago.
-- 
 ============================================================================
 Frank Irwin                   | "Mike and Blair have the lowest ___________
 Vmark Software, Inc.          |  to ____________ ratio of all rec.gamblers."
 irwin%uvmark@merk.com         |     - You fill in the blanks.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Subject: Re: If you missed the BARGE...
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 92 02:44:11 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Sep03.180549.6516@uvmark.uucp> irwin@uvmark.uucp (Frank Irwin) writes:

>For those of you in similar situations, may I suggest you join me in a
>BINGE?  That's right, the Big In-November Gambling Extravaganza.  This
>will be the 5th (or is it 6th?) Wilding Brothers (I was an honoray WB
>a coupla years back) Annual Thanksgiving in Vegas, except that the *real*
>Wilding Brothers won't be there.

I don't know if I can make it or not, but I'd recommend beginning the
BINGE on 30 November (a Monday), or converting it to a BADGE (Big Annual
December Gambling Escapade).  I'm told the rates go down dramatically
between Thanksgiving and Christmas.

>Of course, BARGErs are welcome, as well, but we won't let jacobs in the
>hold'em tournament.

Last I heard, Steve was hanging up hold 'em (said it was too easy).
He wants a real challenge, so he's taking up Baccarat, with occasional
spins of the money wheel...
-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
From: LIPSCOJA@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: European No Hole BJ
Date: 3 Sep 92 05:15:37 GMT
Organization: Vanderbilt University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.21

In <UedCRL600iUzM2q1dR@andrew.cmu.edu> David writes:

 

 
> I once saw the changes to basic strategy (probably on r.g) but I forgot
> them.  Does anyone know what they are?  Do you ever put more money on
> the table when the dealer has a 10 or A showing?

Only by splitting aces aganst a 10 (according to Patterson).
 
> How much is your expectation hurt by this rule?

0.13% (Gambling Times Guide).

Sorry if this is a duplicate.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall)
Subject: Re: Blackjack Lemmings?
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 23:44:43 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.212100.27788@isrc.sandia.gov> smlacke@isrc.sandia.gov (Scott M Lackey) writes:
>	But here is the main reason for my post.  I propose a contest to
>see who can come up with the best cutsie name for those blackjack
>players who are scared to death to play heads up, but immediately
>show up at the table when you try to.

Here on rec.gambling they have traditionally been called "empty table phobes".
I don't claim credit for the first to use that term.  They are particularly
annoying when there are a million other empty tables and they choose to
occupy the other 4 spots of your 5 spot single deck table (producing a
2 rounds of 5 spots unplayable game.)  If you leave, they follow.  Aaargh!
Sometimes I think they are shills.  Ever notice how they descend on your
table like locusts, triggering a shuffle-up, when the count is +oo and the
dealer was all set to deal one more round head-on?

All you can do is keep running away from them until all the tables are in
use.  This probably works best if you have a whole team hitting the same
casino at once, all trying to run away from the empty table phobes.
-- 
Michael Hall            \ Empty table phobes remind me of Night of the Living
NASA Ames Research Center\ Dead.  Sure, you could easily outrun a few of them,
hall@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov \ but the millions of others keep closing in on you.
From: TRADER@cup.portal.com (Paul Vincent McGinnis)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Want to buy casino hardware!
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 20:48:04 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
  <l9lmp4INNacm@spim.mips.com>

A previous post mentioned that casinos are going bankrupt in Vegas and
Reno and you can get equipment from them. I happened to be in Vegas
last summer when the Landmark had its liquidation sale - I think other
casinos must have picked up most of the gambling equipment, because all
they had was mostly hotel furnishings (beds, lamps, etc.) 

For some strange reason though, they wouldn't sell me one of the wooden
tiki gods from the pool area...

Paul McGinnis / TRADER@cup.portal.com
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: football handicapping
Date: 28 Aug 92 04:09:51 GMT
Organization: Summit NJ

>I rely mainly on trends. Two well known ones are to take home underdogs
>on Monday night, and to go against Monday night winners the following week.
>(In those situations there are nuances, like whether it is a divisional
>game, etcetera.)

When my son wanted to get into a football pool last season, I tried
my hand at handicapping.  He entered for two weeks late in the
season, and while we didn't win, we did get 7 of 11 both weeks (which
is enough to make a profit; 6 of 11 is break even).

What I did was simply look at points scored and points allowed by
both teams, to see if the favorite could reasonably be expected
to cover the spread. 

The biggest problem I see with footbalk betting, and this is what
us rec.gambling readers should definitely contact the NFL about, is
that the teams don't play to beat or cover the spread.  I mean,
suppose a team that's a 3 point underdog is down by 5 in the last
minute of the game.  A field goal is all they need, as far as we
are concerned, but they'll always go for the TD, and usually fail.
And in OT games, the 4 point favorite will wimp out with a field goal,
and thus still be loser in our books, instead of trying to win the
game for us, their fans, with a TD.
-- 
Stan Krieger                     All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
AT&T UNIX System Laboratories    if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
From: mmord@doc.bmd.trw.com
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Kelly w/fut.options & 95% penetration
Date: 26 Aug 92 09:55:03 MST

Can you apply Kelly Criterion or log optimallity to futures options to
determine how much you would best spend on each contract?  Of course
some crude assumptions would have to be made about the expectation,
variance, etc but is there some way to at least roughly apply these
 methods?

Thanks and wish I'd made the BARGE.

Bret Webster

Oh yeah, can anyone estimate the expectation on 2 decks, 95% penetration,
DOA, DAS, NRSA, H17,spread 1-4, Wong halves (doubled)w/ace side count?
This game exists in Nevada but it is well Hidden Away. :)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart)
Subject: Re: Kelly w/fut.options & 95% penetration
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 03:11:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.095503.325@doc.bmd.trw.com> mmord@doc.bmd.trw.com writes:
>Can you apply Kelly Criterion or log optimallity to futures options to
>determine how much you would best spend on each contract?

I could tell you that, but then I'd have to kill you.

Seth		sethb@fid.morgan.com
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Mail call
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:02:29 GMT


Tim Moore writes:
#Don't know about zinc but what about the new plastic frame for the old
#MK II .22?  What do they call it, MKII/45 or something like that in
#reference to its grip angle being the same as a 1911 (sorry Ed, I said
#a bad word :-)


Not at all, Tim, the 1911 is a fine service pistol. A year ago I wouldn't
have said that, but I guess exposure to the "kinder, gentler newsgroup"
has more or less counteracted the effects of too many years' exposure
to gunshop idiots (on both sides of the counter).

I might even justify buying a 1911, .45 ACP and all, to complete the
"handguns of the major powers of the Great War" set which seems to be
forming of its own accord in my gun safe. I didn't notice that until 
Tim's posting jarred my memory.

I will however never concede to the alleged superiority of the .45 or the
.40 to 9mm in terms of stopping power. .357 yes; .40 or .45 NFW :)


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
"That's not true," Bill hissed to his lawyer. "The facts are-"
"Don't worry about facts, Bill, no one else here does. Facts can't
alter this case."       -"Bill the Galactic Hero" Harry Harrison

[MODERATOR:  Ahh, we're mellowing with age.....  Actually, I seem to
be developing a "pistols people flamed about on the net" motif, so I
think maybe its time to reverse myself and encourage *more* flames
here .... naw ...]
From: fcrary%ocf.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why a sawed-off shotgun?
Date: 27 Aug 92 02:37:44 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility

In article <1992Aug26.153716.18872@btree.uucp> btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale) writes:
#In this case the Supreme Court dodged the issue; they stated that it
#was not within judicial notice that short-barreled shotguns were
#useful to the military.  This means that no one had presented evidence
#that they were useful, it doesn't mean that the military didn't use
#them.

Not exactly: They did dig up _some_ evidence of their own: The checked 
old federal, state and (pre-1776) colonial militia laws, and standard
issue army weapons. Neither mentioned short barrel shotguns. The Court
knew this wasn't very good research, so the used the "not within 
judicial notice" phrase (so they wouldn't look _too_ stupid...)


					   Frank Crary
					   CU Boulder
					   (Even though
					   I'm still using
					   my Berkeley account...)
From: tmi@well.sf.ca.us (Peter Kasler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hand-loads for defense (was Re: Occasional Dud in Glock 20)
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:07:40 GMT
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link

In <1992Aug26.220729.10055@ke4zv.uucp> ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:

#Mr. Kasler, you arrogance is astounding. Your shilling for the 
#ammunition manufacturers would probably be more effective if you
#were a bit more civil.

	Perhaps if I *were* shilling for the ammunition manufacturers
I would be more civil.

#BTW *all* 18 police departments that I deal with shoot and carry
#*reloaded* ammunition. If it's good enough for the cops, it should
#be good enough for the civies.

	You certainly miss the point. Read Russ Kepler's post on this
subject and perhaps you'll begin to get it. The cops can use reloaded
ammunition with little or no fear of recriminations whereas civilians
who attempt the same thing are inviting trouble in the event of civil
litigation arising out of a defense shooting.

	If you think I'm arrogant, ignore everything I've posted in
good faith for no reason other than to suggest things to do and to
avoid doing for purposes of reducing liability exposure in connection
with justified shootings, then compare my behavior with that of the
plaintiff's counsel when you're the defendant (I hope you never are).

	If you would just set aside your defensiveness and beligerence
and realize that once the bullet leaves the muzzle it and its
consequences cannot ever be called back, you might appreciate the
value of reasoned planning and rational behavior as a way of life.

-- 
                           Peter Alan Kasler
                      Threat Management Institute
                 800 West Napa Street, Sonoma, CA 95476
     Voice: 707-939-0303  =  tmi@well.sf.ca.us  =  Fax: 707-935-1713

[MODERATOR:  I'd like to tone this down a little, but I am posting
Peter's response as-is simply because of his final paragraph ....
indeed, a little planning will go a long way towards helping us all
out.....]
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 10mm information needed
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:19:56 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler) writes:


#The 10 probably has some real drawbacks as a defense round.  I say probably 
#because there are undoubtably people out there that love it.

#First it is too powerful for most of us.  The recoil is such that it isn't 
#real quick to shoot.  It is only in the movies where the 'giant blast' 
#really counts.    

	The light loads are no different than .40 or light .45.
	
#Secondly, if you look at the characteristics  of successful semi auto rounds, 
#you will find that they all have some things in common.  Most important 
#is that they are all relatively 'stubby' rounds.  

	Like .45 ACP?    2 mm longer is no big deal, imo.

#The design of the 10, (relatively long, straight sided  etc.)  make it 
#inherently less reliable in an auto.  

	Than .40?  Than .45?  Than .38 Super?  All straight sided.

#The answer to all this was the 40 S&W.   A shorter round that would feed
#better, and had less recoil.

	And a straight sided one, like almost every round except 9mm.

#On the other hand, if you just want to play with the round, as opposed 
#to using it as a serious self defense caliber, you may have a lot of 
#fun with it.

	You mean the .40 or the 10mm?	(^8

#Rick.
	Jim D
From: nomad@ecst.csuchico.edu (Michael Larish)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 9mm vs .38
Date: 30 Aug 92 14:09:26 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico


	A friend of mine keeps insisting that in terms of knockdown power,
the .38 will outclass a 9mm.  Does anybody have any data or comparisons
between the two that they could send me?  I'd really appreciate it.

	Please send any responses via E-mail to nomad@ecst.csuchico.edu since
I don't always have the time to keep up with this newsgroup.  I'll post
a summary after a few days...  Thanks...

-- 
Michael G. Larish       | Amateur Radio Callsign:  KD6CTZ
aka Nomad the Wanderer  | Golden Empire Amateur Radio Society (GEARS) - W6RHC
nomad@ecst.csuchico.edu | Chico State Amateur Radio Society (CSARS)
CSU Chico, CA           | rram FAQ Maintainer email: hamradio-faq@uts.amdahl.com
From: bobv@spike.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Bob von Buelow)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: handgun hunting
Date: 4 Sep 92 16:45:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: elroy.9209041512.AA05421
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA

In article <1992Sep2.220104.17568@smartstar.com> smrtstr!syspb@uu.psi.com (Paul) writes:
#I saw on an earlier post that some states require a handgun with 
#500 ft. lbs. of muzzle energy at 100 yds, to be legal for hunting.
#The post stated that the 357 magnum did not meet this requirement.
#What about the 10mm?  Would it have enough muzzle energy?

Haven't seen a response to this yet, so here goes.

Muzzle energy is simply E=mv**2 using the bullet weight and velocity at it
exits the barrel.  Downrange it would be *retained* energy as the velocity
decreases, but using the same formula.

Here are some figures **for comparison purposes only**

Caliber     Bullet wgt.   Muzzle  50  100    Muzzle  50  100   Barrel len.
             grains       Velocity (ft./sec) Energy  (ft.lbs)   (inches)

22 LR         40            1027  925  --      93    76  --      6
25 auto       50             760  705  660     65    55  50      2
30 carbine   110            1760 1600 1430    785   625 500     10
9mm Luger    125            1110 1030  970    340   290 260      4
38 Spcl +P   125             945  900  860    250   225 205      4
357 mag      140            1360 1195 1075    575   445 360      4
10mm auto    175            1290 1140 1035    650   505 420      5 1/2
41 rem mag   210            1300 1160 1065    790   630 525      4
44 Rem mag   210            1495 1310 1165   1040   830 635      6 1/2
45 auto      185            1000  940  890    410   360 325      5
45 Colt      225             960  890  830    460   395 345      5 1/2

Info from 1991 Gun Digest, DBI Books, Inc.

There are many other bullet/power combinations, but I think this gives
the idea.  Of course, longer barrels will yield somewhat higher velocities
and energies.  And specialty bolt-action handguns using special or rifle 
cartridges probably easily exceed 500 ft/lbs at 100 yards.  You need to 
get ahold of some ballistics charts and look them over.

Looks like not a lot of standard pistol cartridges meet the 500 ft.lbs at
100 yard requirement.  On the other hand I use a rule of thumb of having
at least 1000 ft.lbs. of retained energy at whatever range I am hunting 
deer size game, for RIFLE hunting.  So if I am using a 30-30 I will limit
the range to under 200 yards, with a 30-06 165 gr. bullet is good out to
400+ yards, although for other reasons (like I'd need a real steady hold
and accurate range estimate) I might choose to not shoot that far.


game.
--
Bob von Buelow             Mars Observer Planning and Sequencing Element
bobv@quarky.jpl.nasa.gov         - standard disclaimers apply -
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 10mm information needed
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:08:13 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <13400032@iftccu.boeing.com>, by bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler):
# 
# To those who claim that you can download the 10 to .40 velocities, I say
# then, why not get a .40?  There are some real advantages in doing so.
#

You cannot load the .40 up to 10mm velocities ;-{).  (You can
tune a piano, but can you tune a fish?)

Having had the opportunity to fire both the 10mm Glock and the
.40 (small one - 23?), I found the 10mm easier to control.
'Course I haven't found a used "big" .40 (22?).  I imagine it
would be even easier to control than the 10mm (21?). 
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Is a pocket gun really a pocket gun?
Date: 1 Sep 92 20:32:50 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <1992Aug31.041043.17914@nuscc.nus.sg>, by swkmorri@nuscc.nus.sg (Perry Morrison (Dr)):
# IS it really possible to carry a resonable calibre (.38, .45, .357)
# handgun in your trouser pocket with reasonable concealment and
# safety?
# 
# I've always wondered whether there would be an advantage in having
# a snub nosed revolver (bobbed hammer) carried there rather than in
# a holster. In a really desperate situation perhaps you could fire from
# within the pocket (hopefully missing the family jewels)? In addition,
# wouldn't reaching within a very baggy trouser pocket be a little more
# surruptitious than reaching for a conventional holster?
# 
# What are the pros and cons of this method of carry?

I think the pocket in question is generally a coat/jacket pocket
rather than a pants pocket although back pocket carry is not too
uncommon.  Getting shot in the butt because of a poor choice of
back pocket carry gun is not too uncommon either, at least
according to legend ;-{).
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: kemasa@ghost.hac.com (Kemasa)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Travelling help
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:43:02 GMT
Organization: Natural Order Nature Experiments (N.O.N.E.)


In article <11883@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer) writes:
#...
#This is a new form of Kalifornia madness.  I don't know if anyone has
#been convicted or not, but the last time my wife went shooting at the
#indoor range in Cotati, CA, the rangemaster warned her that Cotati
#Police had taken to sitting outside the range, and stopping people
#coming out of, or into the range, and inspecting their handguns.
#They were using the "ridiculous interpretation" of the Kalifornia
#law to confiscate guns from people who had a loaded magazine in 
#the same bag as a gun.  No effect for my wife, she has a permit
#to carry, but it's pretty amazing to think that the Cotati PD has
#enough time and energy to engage in this sort of madness.

Under what grounds do they attempt this and what happens if you
refuse?

Just going into a gun range is not a crime and if they can not see
any guns then they can not assume that you have one. It would be
interesting to see what would happen if you went in with a large
bag/case that did not have any guns and refused to let them take
a look at it. When it was found out that there were no guns involved
what would their excuse be?

It sounds like a way to hassle the gun range. It would also be interesting
to get a fake rattlesnake and place it in the bag, although not a smart
thing to do :-).
-- 



						 Kemasa.
From: truong@software.org (James Truong)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Need advice on building an underground range
Date: 27 Aug 92 00:38:22 GMT
Organization: Software Productivity Consortium, Herndon, Virginia


Hello to the netters in rec.guns,

My friend Rob and I are seriously thinking about building a 50' 
underground pistol range in his backyard.  Being a lurker on 
rec.guns, I know the experts here can help us to avoid pitfalls.

We need advice on the following topics:

  1) Bullet-trap 
	We want a bullet-trap that stops up to and including the 
	.50 from a Desert Eagle.  We want to build our own if 
	possible so any proven design, blueprint, and drawing will
	help a great deal.  Also the name of any company that sells
	bullet-trap is helpful as backup if a quality piece is too
	difficult to construct.

  2) Ventilation
	We want to avoid lead-poisoning as much as possible (minus 
	lead-free bullet/primer), advice and experience on filter,
	fan placement, etc... is needed.

  3) Sound
	We want to avoid disturbing his neighbors as much as possible
	(in a suburban neighborhood) therefore noise must be kept at
	minimum (not louder than a lawn mower) outside the range. So
	advice and experience on sound proofing is needed.

  4) Lighting
	What kind of lighting arrangement work best in an underground
	range?

  5) Legal
	We have checked out the local regulation (Fairfax County, VA)
	and there is nothing on the book against a private underground
	range (in theory). By building an underground range in the 
	backyard, are we inviting trouble/harassment from the sherrif?

  6) Others
	We are interested to hear your experience and suggestion on topics
	that we need to deal with.

  I will provide a detailed report on the project if the net is interested.

  Many thanks in advance,

	-JimmyT-

------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Truong                         Internet: truong@software.org
Software Productivity Consortium     UUNET:    ...!uunet!software!truong
2214 Rock Hill Rd, Herndon VA 22070  Bellnet:  (703) 742-7121