From: tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian Immigrants on SAT English
Date: 14 Apr 92 01:48:31 GMT
Organization: University of California, Davis / LLNL

In article <1992Apr8.015514.13979@rice.edu> kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go) writes:
->In article <121970@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov writes:
->>In article <92098.085800U49146@uicvm.uic.edu> U49146@uicvm.uic.edu writes:
->>->In article <121835@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV>, tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov says:
->>->>
->>->>In article <92095.184430U49146@uicvm.uic.edu> U49146@uicvm.uic.edu writes:
->>->>->In article <56838@cup.portal.com>, Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com says:
->>Yes.  And they also say that even if you qualify to get in, they are many 
->>qualified candidates.   They can only take a few.  I was in a summer program
->>sponsor by university for high school students and they suggest that if
->>yoiu really want to get into a competitive program you should not take
->>TOEFL.
->
->I hope you're not the one poking fun at Yumei's English, or I would have to
->pick this paragraph apart for you...  <No smiley if you were the one who
->made fun of her; insert smiley if you were not.>

Next time take unrelated questions somewhere else, or at least spend some
time to find the right person.

->
->Doesn't it make sense not to take the TOEFL if you want to get into a very
->competitive program?  I would compare taking the TOEFL to playing basketball
->in a league for people 5'6" and under.  If you want to be compared to that
->limited population, fine.  If you strive to be the best, you must compete
->with the best.

Well, most of AA's I've know have average SAT scores of less than 400 yet
they have average GPA's of over 3.7 in a very competitive technical program.
So SAT English score is not very indicative of your chance of success in 
college.

->
->>->And yeah I know of people who took the SAT in less than 7 months
->>->since they were in this country and others who took it before even setting a fo
->>->ot here.  Now how long you stayed here before you took the SAT, and whether or
->>->not it was fair is a relative question.  Since English is an international lang
->>->uage, I assume you had some kind of exposure to it in your school in Asia.
->>
->>Yeah, since English is such a popular language, we can very safely assume that
->>everyone got some exposure to it before high schol.  Give me a break, in
->>some Asian countries students don't learn anything beyond the 26 letter.
->>Why do they need to learn English if they stay in their countries?
->
->That is true.  But don't use that as an excuse for not learning English if
->you wish to attend school in an English-speaking country.

Just because you don't score say 500 on SAT English does not mean you can't
be successful in college.  It doesn't mean you can't be a good engineer
either.

->
->>You must be so smart that you can master a language in 4 years.  I wish
->>I can be as smart as you...
->
->Me, too :-)  However, I do have friends who have had very good English
->skills when they were in the country for that time.  (Though, I must admit,
->I doubt I could learn a foreign language that quickly--my foreign language
->ability is almost nil.)
->
->>->Anyway my whole po
->>->int is that compared to native speakers, I don't see how these smart kids lose
->>->ut because of English skills.  If theyare applying to prestigious schools, they
->>->certainly have a lot of essays etc where they can make their situations perfect
->>->ly clear.
->>
->>And I believe those admission committee members really sit down and analyze
->>every essay carefully.
->
->I'd have to agree with Terry on this one.  If I were looking for a job or
->school candidate, and an applicant writes an essay/cover letter with poor
->English, I would not be sympathetic to him.  My resume has been put in the
->reject pile simply because I have a Chinese last name and the reviewer
->thought I would not be able to speak English enough for the job.  (When she
->met me, she said, "I'm surprised your English is so good!")  So I doubt
->each case can seriously be evaluated that closely, unless the applicant
->passes the first few cuts.
->
->>->Anyway my und
->>->erstanding is that Asians (as some people like to hammer it) usually enroll in
->>->technical fields, so I don't see where it really matter unless of course the co
->>->lleges want to use it as a criterion b/n otherwise equally qualified candidates
->>->
->
->Is this true for undergraduates?  Even in technical fields, the importance
->of communication and presentation skills cannot be overemphasized.  If good
->writing skills are not necessary for admission now, they should be.
->
->>I believe there is a general minimum overall SAT score requirement for some
->>school and some majors.
->
->You're right.  Because of this quirk, I have an acquaintance who was rejected
->by the University of Texas and was accepted by Yale.


--
Terry Cheung
tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov