From: tcbruno@athena.mit.edu (Tom Bruno)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Reflections on atheism and hope. [was: Re: athiesm & hope]
Date: 15 Aug 92 18:39:03 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <1992Aug15.002626.6977@ac.dal.ca> hartigan@ac.dal.ca writes:
>
>
>
>Re: Atheism and hope. A comment. 
>
><ahem>
>
>Who needs hope? 
>
>(This question actually leads into an interesting criticism of orthodox 
>(i.e. non-Gnostic) Christianity.  Orthodox doctrine (tradition?)
>states that we NEED the saving grace etc. in order to have a
>good life in THIS world. You might call this the "Empty Heart" 
>doctrine, after Pascal. (St. Augustine??) 
>
>But is this true? It can only be answered
>by each individual, speaking for him or herself. But if a person CAN
>have a happy life without this grace, if a person does NOT feel inwardly
>empty without adhering to the Athanasian Creed, than this doctrine is false.
>Now, a Christian may say, "well, you're not REALLY happy..." but there is no
>way for them to know. 
>
>This line of reasoning has no power to persuade a Christian, of course, but 
>it is useful, I think, in helping a non-orthodox Christian come to terms 
>with Christianity.  Argumentation about whether Jesus really died on the cross,
>or whether it was another man of the same name, leads us
>nowhere.  The unbeliever quotes authority A. The believer quotes
>authority B. They argue. The unbeliever quotes authority C to support A, and
>vice versa, ad infinitum...
>
>But if we test Christianity at the experiential level, and find it 
>inaccurate, then we can start to appreciate it's nature as an artificial
>doctrine that does not necessarily have any connection to experiential
>reality at all. 
>
>So... I put this question to readers of a.a.: Can you find (have you found?) 
>a way to have a happy life without adhering to the doctrines of whatever Church 
>is your personal bugbear?
>
>A suspicion: the doctrine of Hell arose because people found a way to say 
>"yes" to this question?
>
>! Another question just occurred to me: ex-Christians, are you happier
>as atheists than you were as Christians?  Do anyone's happiest moments
>occur in relation to a doctrine??   Please post or e-mail responses: I'd love
>to see how people answer this one. 

Yes.  I am much happier now that I was as a Catholic.  I think this has a lot
to do with the fact that giving up Christianity has helped me to revel in the
sheer incomprehensibility and wonder of things.  I DON'T have to envision all
of our grand universe as a celestial clockwork, ordained by God.  I remember
when I was walking home with my girlfriend once, along the banks of the Charles
in Boston, while marveling a sunset.  We had been joking about religious 
differences, and when we stopped to take in the view, she poked-- 'Now could
THAT have happened by chance?'  I countered with, 'But that's what makes it
infinitely more amazing-- that it COULD HAVE (it DID) happen by chance.'  (!)

I like the fact that my life is my own.  Judegment lies within my own skull,
not within someone's moth-eaten doctrines and dogmas.  My discoveries, my
revelations, my amazement and surprise at something new-- it's all mine, and
not 'as ordained' by some benevolent (of malign) puppeteer.  I've found that
my joy soars much higher, and sorrows sinks much lower, than within the 
confines of my old religion.  I can laugh at the stupidity of it all, at the
foolishness of believing that you have an answer to it all, and the insanity
of trying to foist that answer off on someone else.

I like it just fine without belief.  It's made my life more alive.


>
>I'd also be interested to read any comments elicited by any of the 
>above remarks. 
>
>Cheers,
>Sean Hartigan
>hartigan@ac.dal.ca


tom bruno
archaeology
mit
Newsgroups: alt.atheism