Newsgroups: dfw.general
Subject: Re: michaelangelo, the virus
From: system@fallout.lonestar.org
Date: 11 Apr 92 02:15:55 CST
 <1992Apr2.053845.21648@seas.smu.edu> <1992Apr3.012422.11479@fallout.lonestar.org> <1992Apr9.033335.7196@seas.smu.edu>
Distribution: dfw
Organization: DECUS DFWLUG BBS *Dallas*TX*

In article <1992Apr9.033335.7196@seas.smu.edu>, doug@letni.lonestar.org (Doug Davis) writes:
> In article <1992Apr3.012422.11479@fallout.lonestar.org> system@fallout.lonestar.org writes:
> 
> 
>>With OpenVMS there is no compromise in flexiblity, and now, no compromise
>>in Standards.  

> You've been reading the sales glossys again haven't you? 
> 

No, I've been using VMS POSIX to read and write tar tapes, execute 
shell scripts from NetNews, doing makes, and performing all those little
functions that before I had to use ported programs to take care of.

Now it's in the VMS directly and supported, I get to use the POSIX
shell utilites and continue with my other VMS applications with
no change.


>>Can you take advantage of nonstandard features? Certainly, at the cost 
>>of not being standard or portable. But that's a choice that customers and 
>>software vendors should decide, not the OS writer.

> The os write should provide for BOTH, sorry but I can't be sold on any
> os that happily locks someone away to the mercy of one vendor.
> 

You're only at the mercy of an "EVIL" OS vendors if you use the 
extensions they provide outside of the standard, you build your
own prison on DEC or anyone elses system. 

Stay portable, write to the lowest common denominator and you'll be 
totally portable, if only a little dull in what you can ultimately do. 


>>If you want to implement portable code Under VMS you can with no
>>changes to the industry standard.  

> I would hope that anything I do under vms doesn't have any effect
> on the "industry standard"

I only ment that Industry portable/standard applications will run
on VMS POSIX without modification...




>>Portable code is a way of life, not an operating system choice.

> (Urr.. No I won't bother..)

Urr.. Either you choose to write portable code or you take advantage
of the operating system's extended features.  There are business reasons 
for doing one or the other and consequences for those choices.


> 
>>(Oh yes, the price performance is leadership in the industry today too; 
>> If you haven't priced it in a while 8.8k$/TP in the TPC-A benchmark --
>> better than any of the RISC systems...).
>>
>>Closed ended OS?  Did you see the Alpha/VMS/OSF announcement February 28th,
>>regarding 64 bit computing?  Look for the press releases at the end of 
>>the month at DECworld in Boston -- Bill Gates will kick off DECworld
>>with a very interesting talk.  
>>

>>Alpha (21064), the fastest commercial CPU chip (200MHz) 
>>on the planet and it runs VMS. (See it at DECworld Boston and DECUS Atlanta
>>later this month)


> BZZZZT Wrongo buck-o the first alpha chip to be released WILL BE clocked at
> 50Mhz, there are plans to make faster ones some time in the future. Yes
> they have been proported to run VMS, OSF/1 and Ultrix.. 
> 

BZZZZZZZT.... Wrongo Doug-o even current CISC VAX (CMOS IV) chips are 
running at 83MHz today on the VAX 6000-610 (40 Specmarks), 
the VAX 4000-500 is only running at 64MHz(30 Specmarks).

The production ALPHA chip currently clocked at 150-200MHz, the 80MHz 
rated chip is slotted for palmtops.  In the future, clock speeds of 
300+MHz are expected--but that's futures right now.

Come and see/touch/use the ALPHA Workstations running at 150-200MHz at 
DECworld in Boston, and at DECUS in Atlanta later this month. Oh, and 
be sure to see the third party industry leading applications that are 
running on these new platforms too.... 

The workstations run VMS, The workstations run OSF/1, not in the future,today. 



> Besides who besides uninformed PC people ever judge the speed of a machine
> by it's main cpu's clock rate?   Gosh wally I've got a 50Mhz 486! Gee
> beav thats pretty cool, how come you have 120ns drams in there?
> 

That's the only thing that some U*** folks seem to measure performance 
in, that or some_constant x VAX 11/780.

If you talk about real-use benchmarks like TPC-A, TPC-B, or anything 
that doesn't measure memory resident compute bound tasks the speeds 
and feeds addicts roll their eyes.  TPC-A stresses and tests the 
whole system, CPU, Memory, Terminal I/O, Storage I/O and Network, 
so you can't hide a fast CPU with a Dog of an I/O subsystem and 
claim great performance....
                                                      

>>Heard about any of the Micro Kernel work being done?
> Sure! mach3 has been out a couple of years, cmu has a micro kernel for OSF/1..

> oh, I bet you ment within vms right? 

Oh, guess you know which fortune 30 company's engineering group helped 
fund that work too?

> 
>>Look at what is available in the industry and VMS is the only added 
>>value operating system with FIPS 151 (POSIX) certification today.

> If you consider VMS functionality "added value" from your perspective,
> being employed by dec I guess you would..
> 

If you don't consider VMS functionality added value, you're certainly
entitled to that opinion, but it's not just my opinion that VMS provides 
high reliablity, data integrity, and added value.  Computer customers
and business people have relied on VMS in banking, manufacturing, retail
and engineering since 1978.

And yes I'm "TAINTED" by being a DEC employee, but I'm more "TAINTED"
by the success that I've had in the successful Digital solutions I've 
been associated with in Dallas and world-wide since 1983.  It's not just 
the OS, it's the solutions that serve the customer's needs...          

Anyone who wants to continue this let's take it off line either by 
mail or phone, I'm on the edge of what I can talk about in a public
newsgroup about new products and features.  


Be seeing you,
                                          
+-----------------+--------------------------------------------------------+
| John Wisniewski |         Consultant Digital Equipment Corporation       |
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| Dallas, TX  USA |                                                        |
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Newsgroups: dfw.general