HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: ...and stuff, and junk, and stuff like that.
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:47:56 GMT

The FAQ list will be posted sometime next week, as I'm more likely to catch
more students returning from holiday break then instead of this week.

I will also get around to posting my reviews of the Character Collection,
The Gaunt Man Returns, and the November Infiniverse whenever I can sneak
the time at work to get those things typed up.  (And maybe the December
Infiniverse will show up by then - yeah, right.)

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Yet another configuration coincidence
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 00:32:09 GMT

Yeow!  I was playing around with my setup for the Nile planetary
configurations just now and I found a truly wonderful period to have
been a Nile mathematician; the way I have things set up, April 28 of
year one is the Night of Walking Evil (as per the sourcebook) where
Anubis and Set are configured.  The very next day every other planet
was configured!  Some truly bitchin' spells must have been cast on
that day!

Now I've got to do some more calculations and figure out how I managed
such an arrangement without trying to....

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: oakes@jupiter.nmt.edu (David Oakes)
Subject: Re:  Players info set
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:14:54 GMT

i think cliff has a good point, not in the least of which because 
he echos sentiments i have expressed about Orrorsh before

i work very hard to separate player knowledge, mostly because i enjoy the
game so much, wanting to play a character not second guess the rules
(i also cannot stop reading every SB and am constantly picking my GMs skull,
 so i have a lot of player knowledge to ignore, absent minded not withstanding)

my first character had no problems going to Orrorsh, but then he was an edinos,
and pretty easy even by edinos standards...
(it also didnt hurt that the SB didnt come out until he had almost retired)

my second character would never have gone, but then he didnt like being 
anywhere - Papacy full of big guns, CE is a backwards shithole, etc.
if Nippon hadnt pissed him off so seriously, and led him to info of 
"technodeamons" in russia, he would have never done anything willingly
(he of course retired right at this point, since the party was going to Nile)

my third character is willingly going to LA, and dragging people along!
do I want to go to LA? no. do i expect to survive? no - i am a begining 
character with barely enough combat skills to get by in the Nile, and TOU 8!
why am i doing this? well, the character has no idea what is in LA, and he 
was unable to save a party member, from LA, from Thratchen, from LA, and he
knows that the insidious wu han is behind it all, and wu has a girlfriend -
yes, you guessed it - from LA. there is no reason NOT to go!

as a player, it is stupid, i will die, and wu han is really in amsterdam,
but as my character, i HAVE to go, being Nile not withstanding
(i really want the kill machine miracle to fix my car - but of course,
 the character thinks it is an "animate vehicle spell" so...)

dave "beats only fighting HLs who wont kill you if they win" oakes
From: Dave_Wetzel@vos.stratus.com (David Wetzel)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: REVIEW: Character Collection (long!) [not really]
Followup-To: alt.games.torg
Date: 6 Jan 1993 16:43:21 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: dwetzel.mis.stratus.com

In article <gatemail1.0b412462519461@morticia>,
albert@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Rick Jones) wrote:

> > Cyberpapacy
> > -----------
> > Marcel Berge: Experienced
> > 	The only thing that makes Marcel an Experienced character
> > instead of a Beginner is that he's got 45 Possibilities!
> 
> 	(p'raps it's a typo?) 

Nope, that's right.  The guy who plays him is *VERY* conservative spending
PP, even for skill adds!  We keep trying to convince him to use them.  Arg.
 The character has been around almost as long as Daremo, but I'm the
opposite extreme (points are there to be spent, damn it!).  It's rare for
Daremo to start an adventure with more than 15 PP.

Thanks,
Dave_Wetzel@vos.stratus.com
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: burt@ptltd.com (Burton Choinski)
Subject: Re:  Nile planet cycles
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:58:36 GMT

I hope you find it useful....
The new version is made for laser printers & postscript (Hell, I work at a
company that makes the frigging software, why not), mostly because I was
able to produce nicer output then with ASCII (previsly I took the ASCII
result and ran it through an ASCII->PS converter. Ick.

The new version also allows you to tweak parameters better.
     -- Burton
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Nile planet cycles
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:42:28 GMT

The planets must have been configured real good over the holiday
break; Burt reposts his program for figuring the planetary
conjunctions at the same time I was doing it by hand while on
vacation and away from the mailing list....

I haven't run the program yet to see how it matches with what I came
up with...I can probably fiddle with settings to get it to match what
I'm using though.

It was real strange too; I was finding the most wonderful conjunctions
occuring whenever something major happened in the Nile Empire in my
game!  As a matter of fact, a really really BIG conjunction (the Night
of Walking Evil, with three extra planets thrown in!) is about to
occur in my game (and the players are not going to appreciate it, as
they are currently trying to stop the Nile from invading Greece.)

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Active Defense
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:39:36 GMT

This ruling just in from WEG over on GEnie...

The 'minimum +1 bonus' you receive for an Active Defense only applies
to the bonus from your die roll; any other modifiers to the bonus
number are applied afterwards.

Example: You are performing an Aggressive Defense (-2 on defense,
-4 on attack) and roll a 1 (-12 bonus).  The -12 bonus becomes a +1
because of the active defense, but that is reduced to a -1 by the 
multi-action penalty of the Aggressive Defense.

Now maybe everyone out there has always done it this way, but I seem
to recall discussion on the list a long time ago (over a year ago)
about this topic and I came away from it running things so that the +1
minimum comes after all other modifiers.  Before that discussion I had
been running it the way WEG says to do it, so someone had to have
convinced me otherwise....


This raises the question in my mind of the 'minimum +1 bonus' you get
for Point Blank range; is this handled in the same way?  I'll ask WEG
tonight (if I remember to 8-) when I check for an answer to the questions
I posted last night about negating Possibilities.

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Re: REVIEW: Character Collection (long!)
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:15:54 GMT

Rick Pim fumes:

> steam..... WEG morons..... :-(

No no, Steam is very important!  Remember, "The world can be saved by
steam."  

(Everyone who knows the reference can award themselves one Possibility
Point.)

Yes, its another slow day at NRAO....

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: oakes@jupiter.nmt.edu (David Oakes)
Subject: Re:  magic theories
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:20:57 GMT

fiche (???) writes
 ! plodding style and discard all the blatant garbage, the book makes pretty 
 ! good research material, especially for those orrorshians and other 
 ! occultits 
 ! 
 ! 	>occultists<
 ! 
 ! types, both PCs and NPCs.

[i know it just the lousy editor we have, but i cant resist]

"forget the mages bob, look at those occultits!"

or 

"woody allen did an Orrorshian Horror?"

or...

dave "see what gaming cold turkey does to a man" oakes
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: "Colin J. Wynne" <cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu>
Subject: Re: Active Defense
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 06:49:25 GMT

On Thu, 7 Jan 1993, Jim Ogle wrote:

> Well, I knew that; my question is if you were to do a point blank
> vital blow, is the penalty for the vital blow assessed before or after
> you apply the 'minimum +1 bonus'?  I've run it both ways over the
> course of my campaign though I don't remember why I switched my
> interpretation when I did.

Horrors to think that we may actually have been doing something 'the WEG
way', but I think we've always used the M1 as an initial bonus, and then
applied all modifiers to that (like vitals blows, multi-actions, etc...)

CJW


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  =====  Colin J. Wynne                     Washington & Lee University  =====
  =====  cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu              Lexington, Virginia      =====
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: oakes@jupiter.nmt.edu (David Oakes)
Subject: Re:  Magic vs. Tech
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:15:28 GMT

[after three weeks of no gaming, you knew he'd be back]

actually, colin, you are confusing the axioms themselves with their use -
the methodology/interpretation/whatever is the "science" of tech or magic,
which is a _social_ phenomenon, not tech or magic

without a sufficiently advanced thought process, neither cause=>effect
or effect=>cause have any meaning, though one might be simpler than the 
other, leading to the CE bais "magic = primative science"
(or more specifically, "magic = primative")

like the man said, crowley argues that magic is just newtonian physics in
a non-conservation framework, and i myself have used quantum theory as 
proof of voodoo (paired spins remain opposite even when separated)
it is all just an attempt to explain something we dont know (magic) in
terms of something we know better (tech)

dave "and that explanation is SCIENCE!" oakes
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: "Colin J. Wynne" <cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu>
Subject: Miracles
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 15:53:19 GMT

Snooze asked about miracle numbers.  I think that this is a good time to
mention something I've been thinking about.

I figure that the number of miracles a character can perform should be
related to the axiom level.  I was thinking of a rough breakdown into a
few different levels, such as:

1) One per focus add, 2) one per faith and focus add, 3) three per two faith
and focus adds, and 4) all.  

I don't have the axiom level descriptions around, so I can't say now what
numbers might be appropriate, but I figured Core Earth should be in (1),
since the DC SB indicated limitations on CE priests; Aysle/Orrorsh and SPI
16-17 should be in (3), and LL should be (4).

The only specific exception so far is for the Ravagons, who are limited by
Ravok to having focus adds + 1.

Any comments?


CJW


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  =====  Colin J. Wynne                     Washington & Lee University  =====
  =====  cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu              Lexington, Virginia      =====
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: "Colin J. Wynne" <cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu>
Subject: Re: Miracles
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 08:34:07 GMT

On Mon, 11 Jan 1993 agreene@mta.ca wrote:

>  Colin J. Wynne writes:
> >
> >I figure that the number of miracles a character can perform should be
> >related to the axiom level.  I was thinking of a rough breakdown into a
> >few different levels, such as:
> >
> >Any comments?
> 
> grrr....
> 

Wherefore respondest thou thus?

CJW

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  =====  Colin J. Wynne                     Washington & Lee University  =====
  =====  cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu              Lexington, Virginia      =====
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: cpearce@nemesis.acs.unt.edu (Chris Pearce)
Subject: Re: languages
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:47:49 GMT

> Regarding the Edeinos use of extended sibilants and pidgin English:

> Does the Edeinos (at Tech 7 remember) even rtecognize the brain as the
> seat of higher reasoning power?  

Extremely unlikely. It was only relatively recently that *we* (meaning
Westerners -- not sure about Oriental medicine) understood the
brain was the seat of reasoning power (and other things, for example, that the
blood circulates). I don't know exactly when or who it was that determine
that the brain contained "thinking power," but it was probably
in the Age of Reason -- and *that* may even be an agressive estimate.

> Can the DD turn on the language
> machine in an Edeinos brain if the Edeinos doesn't possess one.

Well, I've never thought that DD were constrained by the axioms they
manipulate. The fact is, that at the Edeinos' Tech level, questions about
how language works and is attained have probably never been pondered
(though is linguistics a Tech phenomenon or a Soc phenomenon?) Nevertheless,
since the Cyberpapacy DD can bestow Cyberware on those who cross into
CyberFrance, I don't really see it as much as a stretch that a DD can
bestow language ability upon those that cross into its domain... even low
Tech societies are aware that people "learn." It's just that low tech
societies knowledge of learning is primitive by our standards.

> Remember that your are applying Atomic Age neoruscience to <Stone Age
> anatomy.  Based on this, the DD would probably just have to lay on a
> language imprint over the Edeinos' normal language skill.  
    ^^^^^^^^^^ This concept also probably exceeds the Edeinos' Tech/Soc level

> It would
> probablr be limited to either written grammer form (the DD just
> peruses a few grammer books, assuming they exist in cosm), 

I think this model would lead to stilted speech...

> or samples
> the spoken language of the region the bridge is going to drop into.

This would probably work pretty well, but you run into problems in the Living
Land again... if their Tech axiom means they don't have brains... then the
DD is having to interpret the language of the natives (who may or may not
have brains, depending on Tech level :) ) into some form that the Edeinos
can process. Both this model and the model I proposed (activating language
ability) require the DD to perform some kind of interpretation between
Tech axioms, so I don't really see that either model is better.

> In the LIving Land, Edeinos will
> probably speak in near-perfect English (or whatever), while in Core
> Earth they speak is harsh sibilants due to their inability to shape
> English words with their lips (or lack thereof), tongues, and teeth.

I don't really follow your reasoning here, but I don't see any reason
to quarrel about it.

-- 
Chris Pearce -- cpearce@nemesis.acs.unt.edu
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Rick Jones <albert@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu>
Subject: Guildmaster ?
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 03:03:19 GMT

	My players are about to be propositioned by the storm guild for
membership.  Aside from all the nice perks like Health Insurance, 
fake ID, good lawyers, and weapons smuggling, what do you think the
guild might pay for an average adventure?
-- 
Rick Jones              "People come back from the dead all the time.  I mean,
albert@bcm.tmc.edu       I've come back from the dead.  I bet you have to!"
Systems Support Center  "Well... Yes, I have.  But I AM a professional."
Voice: 713-798-7352          -Rick Jones and Dr Strange, Incredible Hulk #399
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: "Colin J. Wynne" <cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu>
Subject: Re: Disconnection Question
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 11:41:33 GMT

On Mon, 11 Jan 1993, Jim Ogle wrote:

> Dave writes:
> 
> >should a ravok miracle be able to help when being contradictory? (to T'zRavok)
> 
> I'm afraid I don't understand your question here; how is the miracle
> being contradictory to Tz'Ravok?  It is within Tz'Ravoks Spiritual
> axiom so it isn't a contradiction to the ravagon regardless of what
> realm he is in.

He's saying that Ravok should have been ticked about Kazz getting the
bonus from a tz'Ravok miracle to operate tech 27 equipment.

CJW


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  =====  Colin J. Wynne                     Washington & Lee University  =====
  =====  cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu              Lexington, Virginia      =====
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: "Colin J. Wynne" <cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu>
Subject: Re: Infiniverse #29
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 13:01:43 GMT

On Wed, 6 Jan 1993, Jim Ogle wrote:

> NEGATING POSSIBILITIES: According to whoever answers the letters,
> *anyone* who is aware of what is going on in a given situation can
> cancel a Possibility that has been spent, not just the person who is
> being acted upon (which is how I and most people seem to have
> interpreted that rule).  The example they give is six Storm Knights
> against one P-rated villain; if the villain spends a Possibility on a
> die roll, any of those six (who are conscious) may negate the P-Point.

To put it simply (IMHgm'ingO) ... NOT!!!  This response would imply such
things as: Priest 'blesses' himself, fails, and spends a p-point -- enemy
counters, even though the bless has nothing to do with enemy.  With a
precedent like this, I can see no reason to deny a player who says, "I
*know* he's burning a p-point to reduce damage -- I want to counter!". 
Either you can only counter those p-points that are threatening to you, or
you can counter anything, anytime, anywhere.

As far as their example goes, if that villain were shooting all six SK's,
and spent a p-point, then, sure, any one of them could counter.  Other
than that...

As far as 'awareness' goes, I seem to recall a discussion on this list in
July or August '92, about the nature of p-ratedness, and whether or not it
represented a conscious metacontrol over one's environment.  If I'm not
mistaken, the consensus was that no, it was not necessarily a conscious
thing.  Therefore, I'd be inclined to say the every p-rated possesses a
miniscule bit of what the Ravagon's have developed into p-sense, and
therfore awareness (by the typical five senses) is not necessary for
countering.  IMHO.

BTW, for those of you who do require awareness for countering, how do you
play said sniper?  Obviously you can't counter a p-point spent to increase
the shot (since, if the sniper knows his job, the SK isn't aware), but can
the Knight reduce damage once the shot is fired?

#include<two_cents_worth>

CJW

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  =====  Colin J. Wynne                     Washington & Lee University  =====
  =====  cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu              Lexington, Virginia      =====
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Re: Disconnection Question
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 22:03:39 GMT

Colin answers:

> > I'm afraid I don't understand your question here; how is the miracle
> > being contradictory to Tz'Ravok?  It is within Tz'Ravoks Spiritual
> > axiom so it isn't a contradiction to the ravagon regardless of what
> > realm he is in.
> 
> He's saying that Ravok should have been ticked about Kazz getting the
> bonus from a tz'Ravok miracle to operate tech 27 equipment.

Oh, that!  For some reason the use of the gun didn't connect...

Anyway, the miracle is not being used to operate the gun; the miracle
is being used to affect the ravagon.  Unless the ravagon invoked the
miracle by saying something like "Ravok, make me really brave so that
I can kill things with this really big gun!" then the use of the gun
does not enter into the miracle equation anywhere.  For all Ravok
knows, the ravagon was going to use the gun as a club (since no truly
faithful ravagon would use contradictory tools!) or was going to throw
it aside and attack the robot with his bare talons.

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg