HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gary%ke4zv.uucp@mathcs.emory.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: good, bad & ugly
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:37:20 GMT
Organization: Destructive Testing Systems

In article <C195pM.2tn@newcastle.ac.uk> H.S.Doyle@newcastle.ac.uk (H.S. Doyle) writes:
#
#The meanest-looking gun has to be the GEC Minigun (7.62mm NATO). All you have
#to do is look down the six barrels to start shaking.

Speaking of guns that go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR in the night, I had the
chance to stick my thumb down a barrel of a GAU-8 at the Air Force Museum.
I was very surprised to note that the rifling was nearly 1/4 inch deep.
It was more like an inverse wood screw than any rifle I'd ever seen.

Gary

-- 
Gary Coffman KE4ZV          |    You make it,     | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary
Destructive Testing Systems |    we break it.     | uunet!rsiatl!ke4zv!gary
534 Shannon Way             |    Guaranteed!      | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary      
Lawrenceville, GA 30244     |                     |
From: jhultman@vitalink.com (Jeff Hultman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Accusport's phone number
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:51:58 GMT
Organization: Vitalink

I've tried the 800 information for a listing of Accusport Inc. the
importer/reseller.  I'm in need of their phone number for warranty
purposes.  I don't have a "Gun Digest" handy either as they
have mfgs. addresses and numbers listed in the back...

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Jeff H.
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Seagal's Firearms handling (was: Re: Got One! (Spring. Arm. 1911-A1))
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:52:22 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <199301230809.AA26704@news.service.uci.edu> spickett@orion.oac.uci.edu (Steve Pickett) writes:
}In article <9301221707.AA16674@mmddvan.mdd.comm.mot.com> booth@mdd.comm.mot.com (Greg Booth) writes:

}#My Black Badge Instructor mentioned he had seen Steven Seagal compete in IPSC 
}#matches, and that Mr. Seagal knew his stuff.

}... The gunsmith that builds most of my stuff built a stainless Colt for Seagal
}last year. I asked what movie it was for and he said he thought it was for 
}Seagals personal use. I also know others out here who've built other stuff 
}for him as well. I think he feels technical realism in movies is important. ...

I read somewhare that Seagal was a professional body guard before he got
into acting.  As such, he knows the ropes and tries to make his films as
realistic as possible.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                "If you can't stand solitude,
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483  perhaps others find you boring
Santa Monica, CA  90405                        as well."  -- Mark Twain
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Is the Ram-Line .22 pistol worth considering?
Date: 22 Jan 93 03:59:29 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

jregehr@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (John David Regehr) writes:

#I'm almost embarrassed to post this, but:	

	Why?  I even posted a *review* of my Haskall, and all I
got was a bit of fun flamage, all of which was benign.

#I took a look at a Ram-Line Extractor target model the other day, and
#it seems to be what I'm looking for - a cheap, durable, reliable plinker.

	Answer these three questions:
1) is it fun to shoot?
2) does it fit your budget (well, within reason, anyway)?
3) will you still like it in the morning?

	If you can answer "yes" to all three, buy it.  You can always
buy that custom 1911 next year if you want to impress people at the
range with your guns and not your smile of youthful glee.  As is
customary, I'd tell you to buy them all, but I know cash isn't always
freely available for these things.

	Can anybody poke a hole in my 3-question justification above?

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<     USENET: Post to exotic, distant machines.  Meet exciting,      >
<                 unusual people.  And flame them.                   >
From: dcwst8+@pitt.edu (David C Winters)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock Carbines (was Re: MP-5 question)
Date: 23 Jan 93 15:59:23 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


In article <1993Jan22.104529.13373@netcom.com> tmi@netcom.com (Peter Alan Kasler) writes:
#carbines will appear. Glock is so media-shy after what the gun press
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
#did to them regarding the Models 20 and 21 that they are unlikely to
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
#give out much of anything until they are pretty certain of dates, etc.

I plead ignorance.  I know of the garbage about it's being able to pass
through metal detectors, but that occured with the Glock 17.  What
happened in regards to the Models 20 and 21?

--
David Winters
winters@vms.cis.pitt.edu
From: petekunz@iiic.ethz.ch (Peter John Kunz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock vs. Sig!?
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:15:16 GMT
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH

In article <1993Jan26.191223.8943@erenj.com> crumrine@erenj.com (MDCRUMR  Crumrine) writes:
#In article <9301250428.AA28006@zippy.cs.UMD.EDU> kgk@martigny.ai.mit.edu (Kleanthes Koniaris) writes:
##
#I have owned the blued 226 since 1987 with 6000+ rounds thru it. Now,
#I'm not the most meticulous when it comes to cleaning right after a
#session, somtimes I wait 2 days, somtimes 2 weeks, if the session was
#light (and I used factory ammo :) I skip until the next time. The
#point is, this gun looks and shoots as good as the day I brought it,
#which is to say _very_ good!
#

sounds kinda liek me and my gun, only mines got 10k+ on it. you see the
wear on teh finish, but that's about it.

now i must admit that i do carry a glock 20, but i miss the trijicons.
the reason i like the glock is the caliber, but it also makes the gun
much bigger.

i'm happy with both, but can't give a testimony to the glock since it
only has fired about 200 rounds.


cu
-pete














-- 
Peter J. Kunz	Vogesenstr. 60	4106 Therwil	Switzerland
petekunz@iiic.ethz.ch	pkunz@amiga.physik.unizh.ch
From: kim39@scws8.harvard.edu (John Kim)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: BEST SHOTGUN DEFENSE ROUND?
Date: 25 Jan 93 14:00:02 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

# n9020351@waldorf.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
#???  Under what circumstances would it be desireable or lawful to 
#use lethal force against a figure 50+ yards away?

	I can think of only two cases:  
1) Figure has projectile weapon capable of reaching you and he
appears willing and ready to use it very soon.
2) Figure is threatening innocent person, AND that person would have
the right to use leathal force if he/she were capable, AND you (under
your state's laws) have the right to use leathal force on behalf
of that victim (in almost all states you could shoot if it were your
wife, but in ome states you may not shoot if it's some innocent
strange you do not know), AND the scattering of your shotgun would
not obviously endanger somebody behind the figure in question.  The
exact nature of the last restriction is probably dependent on your
state's laws also.

3) Okay, a stretch 3rd possibility:  Figure is about to do something
else which woudl endanger your bodily well-being, like remotely
detonate a bomb in your vicintity or drop a dry-shipping container
(a-la Leathal Weapon II) on you via remote, or try to run you over
with a vehicle.

-Case
I am not a lawyer: consult an expert in the matter before acting on 
my advice.
From: bilgeoid@milton.u.washington.edu (Patricia Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: night sights for combat handgun
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:16:30 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

I'd like to hear opinions on various night sights for combat handguns.
Particular brands to seek or avoid, advantages or disadvantages of multicolor
sights, how long they will last.

In particular I'd like to know how P-T stacks up against the others.

---------
PB Henry   bilgeoid@u.washington.edu
From:  (MJ)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: In Search for Tactical Hearing Aids
Date: 22 Jan 93 03:59:50 GMT


In article <1993Jan20.174215.5742@email.tuwien.ac.at>,
holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe)) wrote:
# 
# I intend to purchase tactical hearing aids.  I gathered that
# "Wolf Ears" are a standard there (at least Ayoob recommends them).

I've seen an article by Ayoob in a recent gun mag about home defense
tactics.  He mentions "Wolf Ears" and a pictuce of him roaming a house with
a pair on.  They look like conventional over the ear type protectors.  A
tactical hearing "aid" would, I think, go into the ear like a conventional
hearing aid.  I believe E.A.R. markets these.  They make a variety of
hearing protectors.
Remember Ayoob is a distributor of "Wolf Ears" and his opinion may be
biased.

MJ

[As if you didn't already know, my opinions are my own and not my
company's.]
From: andy@sail.stanford.edu (Andy Freeman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Book Advert: Info About CA Gun Laws
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:17:28 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.

It's pretty good.

"Everything You Always Wanted To Know About CALIFORNIA GUN LAWS --
Complete With Real-Life Examples That You Can Understand" 
by Peter Alan Kasler, J.D. is:

- 200+ pages of STATUTES, EXPLANATIONS & COMMENTS;

- COMMONLY-ASKED QUESTIONS (practical reality) section with clear
  answers, cross references to statutes and their explanations;

- Fully indexed and cross-referenced with a Table of Contents;

- Special introduction by Don B. Kates, Jr.;

- Revised periodically, never goes out of date.

Normally $25.00 + $4.00 S&H + CA sales tax, but SPECIAL NET OFFER:

	Send $25.00 to address below and we pay S&H and tax.

	Book will be shipped UPS within 72 hours of order receipt.

---
     Peter Alan Kasler                            Fax: 707-939-8684
     Threat Management Institute                Voice: 707-939-0303
     800 West Napa Street                     TMI BBS: 707-935-1713
     Sonoma, CA  95476                     Internet: tmi@netcom.com

-andy
--
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: shooting under water?
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:00:34 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <9301181246.aa23478@brahms.tinton.ccur.com> tmoore@tinton.ccur.com (Tim Moore) writes:
#->Interesting.  So tell me, if you shoot a gun in "space" i.e.
#->near-vacuum, would you hear anything?  No air for the pressure wave,
#->but I would think that the expanding gas would reach your (spacesuit
#->enclosed) ears.  Neglecting the spacesuit for the moment, would you
#->hear anything?  If yes, what would it sound like?

No, the gas would travel far more slowly than an acoustic wave in a demium.
You wouldn't hear anything transported by the bulk gas -- it's the WAVE
propagation, not the atoms of the medium as such, that cause sound.

#Maybe this is *another* dumb question (I'm sure someone will point that out:)
#but if all the air leaks out of my .45 acp cartridge while I'm space
#walking will the primer/powder still burn?

Yes, just as solid-propellant rocket motors work just fine in space.
The exothermic chemical reaction called "burning" of the gunpowder
does not involve (to any significant extent) any air that happens to
be nearby; it is self-contained.
From: scott@pcc9.spacelabs.com (Scott West)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: New Para Frame: was (New ParaOrdnance P12-45 Question)
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:39:27 GMT

In article <9301171256.aa20158@brahms.tinton.ccur.com>, tmoore@tinton.ccur.com (Tim Moore) writes:
|> 
|>  mjc5@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael J. Cavotta) writes...
|> 
|> ->	I used to own a ParaOrdnance P14-45 and was very pleased with it,
|> ->but it was stolen along with my car a few months ago.  In looking to
|> ->replace it with something, I had all but ruled out another because they are
|> ->anything but cheap.  But I recently saw an article that said they
|> ->re-designed the receiver, and now the grip is just a hair thicker than that
|> ->of a standard 1911!
|> ->	Have any of you handled one of these new guns?  It sounds like I
|> ->may just have to sell off my skis to pick one up after all.....
|> 
|> As a matter of fact, I held one of these new Para frames yesterday at 
|> Goulds American Sportsman (Pottstown Pa.)  This was not a complete gun,
|> just the frame kit.  They basically rounded off the big square front strap.
|> It also has redesigned grips.  I thought it was a major improvement over
|> the original.  The overall finish on the frame looked a lot better than previous
|> frames too.  As far as being just a hair thicker than a standard 1911, yes
|> this is true but when making this claim (as all the high cap 1911 makers do)
|> they don't mention that the *circumfrence* of the grip is much larger.
|> Where the std 1911 has an oval shape, the high-cap 1911s are more rectangular.
|> The new Para is shaped a lot like the McCormick.  The new grip pannels are
|> much thinner which helps alot.  The big *gap* on either side of the main spring
|> houseing is also eliminated/filled.  Standard Para mags work in this frame also.
|> 
|> I *assume* that Para will be using this frame for all their new complete
|> pistols, but I haven't seen one yet and neglected to ask.
|> 
|> --Tim
I have a Para-Ord frame on a Colt Commander Frame, the conversion wasn't trivial.

After many assemblies/disassemblies the slide finally fit and functioned correctly.
Out to the range and test fire showed that the first couple of rounds went off/out okay, but
the rest would jam every second or third round.  So off to the local .45 gunsmith for a little
tweeking.  It needed a ramp and throat job, $45, so they said.  Okay, just do it.  

Next trip to the range it did the same thing, it would jam, twice every clip.  Back to the shop 
for more work, they did stand behind thier work though and no additional charge was 
incurred.

Finally it works, but I'm leary of using it now as my carry gun,  I'll use my 228 until I can
get my hands on the 229.


-- 
"God created Washington for those born here" 

Scott West     scott!ciserv@slmed.eskimo.com    (206)882-3943
Clinical Information System Group, SpaceLabs, Inc.
Redmond, WA
From: chuck@eng.umd.edu (Chuck Harris - WA3UQV)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: shooting under water?
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:02:22 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, Department of Electrical Engineering

In article <1993Jan20.204947.2230@igor.tamri.com> donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin) writes:
#Hmm.  I also wonder about the pressure aspects of firing a gun in space.
#Here on Earth (or is this Mars?), the outside of a gun barrel is being
#experiencing the pressure of 14.7 pounds per square inch.  Without that
#outside pressure, is it possible that a gun firing a maximum load in space
#would burst?

Chamber pressures in long rifles are generally greater than 40,000PSI.  Another
15PSI (which would exist if the inside of the cartridge was at atmospheric
pressure) would never even be noticed. (for that matter, probably couldn't
be measured!)

Chuck Harris - WA3UQV
chuck@eng.umd.edu
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: FFL Application Form Question?
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:36:20 GMT
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma

#By the way, there are special Form 4473's you must use if you sell
                                               ^^^^
                                               may

These are the "low volume" 4473's (they're blue instead of yellow).  They 
contain additional fields for the source of the gun (the yellow 4473's
contain only the disposition).  Low volume dealers using the blue 4473's
are not required to maintain a "bound book" (since the info is on the
4473's).  Low volume dealers may, and frequently do, opt to use the
yellow version of the form and maintian a bound book.

#less than 50 guns in a year.  Be sure to get the correct forms.
#-- 
#Larry Cipriani, att!cbvox1!lvc or lvc@cbvox1.att.com
From: bd474@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bill McDonald)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SKS Cleaning Rod
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:51:20 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


In a previous article, I asked

#I was looking closely at an SKS the other day and wonder how the
#designer intended the cleaning rod to be used.  It's too short to go all the way
#through the barrel, but has screw threads on one end, as if it was
#supposed to be attached to another device/rod (perhaps a separate piece of
#field gear?) to make a full-length cleaning tool.
#Does anybody know how a soldier in the field made any good use of this
#apparently too-short rod?

#McD

In a further validation of the power of internet, I have received a
number of E-mail replies to my question.  In the immortal words of Gomer
Pyle, PFC, "Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!"  -- The rest of the gun cleaning
junk is in the butt of the stock behind a hidden trap door "thingie"
(okay! I admit my career as a technical writer is limited 8^)  )! 
Very Clever, Comrade Simonov! Very Clever, indeed!

Thanks for all of the kind, helpful and patient replies. 

McD
From: janeczko@csd630a.erim.org (Mike Janeczko)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Handgun stopping power. The velocity myth
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:36:57 GMT
Organization: Environmental Research Institute of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan

I thought (I'm not being sarcastic, maybe naive) that the key to stopping power
was the tranfer of energy to the perp.  A bullet which leaves a big hole in 
the perp but continues through him has less a chance of damaging vital organs
than a bullet which remains in the perp "bouncing around".  It seems to me 
that a round which can penetrate a perp, but not go thru him, and thus 
transfering all of its energy to teh perp, has the best stopping power.  Of 
course, rounds which go thru a perp may hit a vital organ (if hit could
stop the owner instantly) and have the same stopping power.  I've heard
the best all around stopping power of man is the .357 Magnum with a 125 gr 
bullet.  It supposedly is ~95% accurate in stopping a man if fired in the 
abdomin (SP?).  I haven't personally seen this stat, but I've heard it from 
many people.

--

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Janeczko               |   Environmental Research Institute of Michigan
Research Scientist             |   P.O. Box 134001
internets:                     |   Ann Arbor, MI 48113-4001
 janeczko@erim.org             |   Phone: (313) 994-1200 x2676
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	 "better to be judged by twelve than carried by six."
From: pismobch@netcom.com (Ed Devinney)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Glock Carbines (was Re: MP-5 question)
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:01:39 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)

With all this talk of 10mm MP5s, and all the drool being spilled from here
to Maryland, apparently, I'm curious if anyone knows the progress of
Glock's carbine project.  Seeing as the MP5 can only be had as a 'pistol'*,
and I'd like something with a shoulder stock, and the H&K's are _way_
expensive anyway, the  Glocks might do the job, if they ever appear.

Since they wouldn't be 'service-rifle' [:-)] derived, they should pass the
import ban, eh?  Maybe I'd better just pay for pistol lessons for my wife
(which is a good idea anyway).
 
* Has anyone fired the SP89?  Can you do it one-handed?  Accurately?  It
would seem to have the same problem as the full-sized Uzi 'pistols' - one
hand supporting a carbine-weight weapon).

-- 
ed devinney						pismobch@netcom.com
	"I wish the sky was green, and my body was bright blue"
						-King Missile
From: justice@Panix.Com (Michael Justice)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Norinco air rifle?
Date: 23 Jan 93 15:59:25 GMT
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC

I went to a gun show last weekend, at which a dealer was selling a Norinco
spring-piston air rifle in .177, claiming 850fps velocity.  The dealer also
said that Norinco "guaranteed" 1 MOA accuracy.  This was an underlever
design, not the side-lever I've seen in SGN for $40.  Asking price was $59.

Are these things any good?  Are they really 1 MOA?  Are they worth $59??

                        -- Michael.
--
Michael A. Justice / "Hey, wait a minute!  You guys are CONSULTANTS!
justice@panix.com /   You're not supposed to insult me, you're supposed
NRA Life / ILA   /    to KISS MY BUTT!  What is WRONG with you people?!?"
ISRA            /                 -- Glenn, having a bad day
From: se08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth Adam Eliot)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Clips are not magazines
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:17:24 GMT

Excerpts from netnews.rec.guns: 26-Jan-93 Clips are not magazines by
Nosy@nmsu.edu 
#         At the risk of being pedantic, I'd like to get on my
#         soapbox and point out that magazines are metal objects
#         that surround cartridges (NOT "BULLETS") with a spring
#         and 'follower'.
#  
#         Clips are pieces of metal which do not enclose  or completely
#         surround cartridges. 

As more and more people use the word "clip" when referring to a
"magazine," it becomes a more and more acceptable use of the word.

Oddly enough, in the Berretta catalogue of spare parts, they have a
section for 'magazines' for their various guns.  Every one of them has a
serial number of the form 

xxCLIP-xxx

or something like that (where x is a numerical digit).


-Seth

__________________________________________________________________________
"Why am I dangerous?...
                    ...because I'm right!"     -Rush Limbaugh

Seth Eliot                    Dept of Material Science and Engineering
                              Carnegie Mellon Univerity,   Pittsburgh, PA
ARPA    :eliot+@cmu.edu       |------------------------------------------
   or    se08+@andrew.cmu.edu |
Bitnet:  se08%andrew@cmccvb   |      
------------------------------|
From: btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Southern California gun shows
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:16:12 GMT
Organization: Brooktree Corporation

I have had some requests for a schedule of Southern California
gun shows.  This list is a summary of the ones that I know of
between now and the end of April.

1/23-24		Santa Barbara	Earl Warren showgrounds
1/30-31		Glendale	Civic Auditorium
2/6-7		San Bernardino	National Orange showgrounds
2/6-7		Santa Maria	Santa Barbara County Fairgrounds
3/6-7		Anaheim		Stadium Expo Center
3/20-21		San Bernardino	National Orange Showgrounds
3/27-28		Ventura		Fairgrounds
4/3-4		Costa Mesa	Orange County Fairgrounds
4/17-18		Del Mar		at the racetrack
4/30-5/2	Pomona		L.A. County Fairgrounds

The Pomona show is *huge*.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net