From: bjames@bagpipe.reed.edu (Bronson D. James)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Re: SRUNMagicalness(again)
Keywords: Shadowrun, SR
Date: 7 Apr 92 05:22:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Apr7.052228.18060
Reply-To: bjames@reed.edu
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <thornt_g.702615440@kultarr> thornt_g@cs.uwa.oz.au (Sebastian  
Nobwit DeLaBler) writes:
> Thanks for all the response to my 'SRUN Magicalness' posting.
> Any/all comments are appreciated except for one:
> 
> [Deleted section] 
> 
> Back to the issue, there are a few things to clear up:
> 
> My comments were mainly based on my experiences so far:
> All player mages that have been in my parties have been absolute
> butt-kickers in terms of spell effectiveness. SO MANY times have
> we (the non-magical players) set up a great ambush/assault, 
> planned everything down to the last detail, got all the right 
> equipment, and then BANG, the mage casts a sleep spell. Ah well,
> time to go home. There are certain catch-phrases that have formed
> like: 'the pool! use the pool!', and 'Forget that, just get the
> mage to sleep 'em.'. One time, our party was in this really heavy
> security building, and things were getting too much, so we drove
> away, and the mage just 'urban renewal'-ed the place a couple
> of times! (If urban renewal is in the grimoire, then don't blame
> me, the player created his character from it, but I've never
> read the thing). 
> 
> It's not that I mind magical people doing stuff, not at all! 
> But they do it so EASILY! The spell always works, (yes I know
> there's drain) and someone goes down. Using the shadowrun rules
> only, there's also no ingredients, gestures, or time required
> to cast these damn powerful spells.  It's also the fact that 
> they can do basically anything! The mage usually has:
> - some kind of armour spell lock thingy, making him tough.
> - some king of enhanced reflexes lock thingy, making him fast.
> - some kind of elemental thingy making him even more powerful.
> - some kind of combat specialisation thingy making his combat
>   spells even better.
> - some kind of mega-blast fireball/sleep against which there is
>   (or seems to be) very little resistance.
> - some kind of healing spells.
> - some kind of masking spells. 
> What else do you need to be able to do? The mage can do it all.
> 
> Then there's all this talk about initiates getting more magic,
> etc. etc. etc. (and one of our mages IS one) I think it's
> too much. Magic is power, but is it omnipotent?
> 
> By the way, who ever heard of a grenade being anything even
> remotely close to a fireball? 'Scratch one mage' yeah SURE. 
> 
> Remember, these are only my opinions/observations being
> presented here, I speak for no-one else, so don't go insulting
> me by saying I play D&D :)
> 
> 
> My Email address: thornt_g@kultarr.cs.uwa.edu.au

	I must say that I share your concerns about the magical system in  
SR.  While the mechanics of the system I like, its power level disturbs  
me.  What I feel must be essential to balance the game is to disallow  
locked or quickened health spells.  Ever faced a combat mage with Wired 1  
and a locked +4 increased cybered attribute spell?  Very nasty chummer,  
and in my opinion outside the game's intent.  I feel the key rests in good  
roleplaying on the part of the players and GM.  For instance, in our game  
if your a shaman you manipulate mana by dealing with spirits, so you had  
better roleplay well my friend for the GM is perfectly justified to alter  
your successes based on your roleplay.  You don't just summon a spirit and  
say "kill them/him/her/it" your must persuade the spirit to your side  
(this takes no game time, just roleplaying off the clock).  I believe  
there are aspects of magic that are mysterious (as was stated very well in  
an earlier reply) but it is the players responsibility to explore these.   
The flavor of the game is up to the players and GM, between them they can  
abuse or harness the power of magic to enhance the SR atmosphere.  As to  
initiates I recommend that only a portion of earned karma be allowed to go  
to increasing initiate levels.  Also make becoming an initiate difficult,  
require a highly draining ordeal (Know how much karma it takes to become  
initiated if your ordeal is conjuring your ally spirit?).  Well enough  
babbling.

PS.  I advise you purchase the grimoire, its worth the $$.

Bronson D. James   bjames@reed.edu