HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: picardo@cthulhu.ces.cwru.edu (Leslie Picardo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: The Fall (out) of Babri Masjid : part 4
Date: 11 Dec 92 13:12:51
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, CWRU, Cleveland OH.
NNTP-Posting-Host: cthulhu.ces.cwru.edu
In-reply-to: narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu's message of Wed, 9 Dec 1992 15:02:30 GMT


In article <Byzz47.Cvx@cs.psu.edu> narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana) writes:


 >	      The Fall (out) of Babri Masjid
 >

   .... <stuff about muslim Indians not identifying with India deleted>.....
   
                       followed by this gem --- 
   
 >   What more testimony do we require than the romoured statement of 
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 > Mrs. Gandhi to Shiek Majibur Rehman. When Mujibur Rehman said to
 > her that he would be prepared to unite Bangladesh with India, she 
 > apparently responded "no thanks! we have enough of them already". 
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
 > Whether this roumor is factual or a fabrication is unimportant. 

                       < rest deleted >



  Your reasoning is more suited to an illiterate ingenuous mob not
  unlike that which we are witnessing on CNN. Take a clue - even the
  Harayana peasants got tired of Devi Lal and his rhetoric. Try
  something more convincing than rumors of what (A) is supposed to
  have said to (B) to prop up your arguments. 



Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.indian.telugu,soc.culture.tamil
From: shivanan@nyquist.usc.edu (Mr. Shivanan Bhajekar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Please ignore
Date: 15 Dec 1992 16:14:11 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: nyquist.usc.edu

In article <1992Dec15.154849.26897@ryn.mro4.dec.com> verma@pfeast.enet.dec.com (Virendra Verma) writes:
>
>Please ignore, just testing my signature.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Disclaimer:
>I express my views under the freedom of speech guaranteed by the constitution
>of the United States of America. My employer is not responsible for any
>damage or damages caused as a result of my writings. I use my employer's
>facilities for a cost of putting extra two hours per week.
>
>WORMA, the WORMS charmer and WORM Abater.
>
>-- Virendra Verma
>------------------------------------------------------------------------- 



	Dont worry we ignore all news(?) from your side. There is no reason why
	we should bother reading your signature.

	Love

	Shivanand Bhajekar
From: dchatterjee@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Idols RE: Why did Muhammad Break Temples
Date: 20 Dec 92 13:38:04 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1h0kh7INNodq@menudo.uh.edu>, mece1e3@Jane.UH.EDU writes:
>>
>> Arindam, you have again started to patronize your Bahai faith and taking
>> recourse to (p)secularism. Why there should be a Sharia law for Muslims and
>> why these noble gentlemen can practise their religion free-wheeling on the
>> social fabric of India - at any speed they want ? Is this written in the
>> Qur'an - to do what they can anywhere anytime ? Or are you again up to your
>> old tricks ?
>>
>>    - deb chatterjee
>>   (a good samaritan)
> As I said, I do not think you can FORCE anybody to change their ideals--good
> or bad. I did not say that I want "Dar-ul-Islams" to be created; on the other
> hand I want all boundaries to cease.
> 
> It's difficult to teach an old dog new tricks (-:
> Know that nothing will benifit   thee
> in this life
> save supplication and invocation
> unto God.
> service in His vineyard,

     Arindam, you are not answering my question. You are trying to puke
     your Bahai faith - against which I have no disagreement. I am *NOT*
     going to let some rascals takeover a country - simply because they
     want to create some war-zones in the name of some charming religious
     practices. In reality, these are the Jammat-i-Islam - a party that is
     getting funded by Pakistan. (Please read my response to Adil Sheikh).

      In this aspect, Raj Bhatnagar, Samit Banerjee, Raja R.Roy, Girish
      Bonde are not hypocrites like yourself. 

     - stay alive,

         deb chatterjee
       (a good samaritan)

> and, with a heart full of love,
> to be in constant servitude unto Him.
> Love
> Arindam
>
From: sunder@grusin.crhc.uiuc.edu (Srinivas Sunder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: BBC News
Date: 11 Dec 1992 18:34:42 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: grusin.crhc.uiuc.edu

BBC World Service, 12:00 noon, Friday, December 11, 1992

PV Narasimha Rao denies that he had any responsibility for the storming
of the mosque in Ayodhya. He placed blame on the BJP-ruled Government of
Uttar Pradesh who, he alleged, deliberately refrained from using the special
forces that had been sent to them to prevent the kar sevaks from destroying
the mosque. When questioned about the delay in dismissing the UP Government, 
he said that news of the incident had been coming in only in
bits and pieces, and that once his mind was made up, he had to call a
cabinet meeting before formally dismissing the State Government. All
of this was in his first press conference since the destruction of the
Babri Masjid in Aydohya on Sunday.

Both some members of the opposition and the Congress have expressed 
skepticism over the PM's disowning of responsibility (no names mentioned).

So far, 1080 people have died in the religious riots that have broken out
since the incident.

He said that the ban on organizations such as the RSS and VHP will be
implemented in all states regardless of the political party was in power in 
that state. A lot of BJP members have expressed indignation over the banning
of the RSS, described as the parent organization of most Hindu organizations 
in the country. 

The CM of Rajasthan, Bhairon Singh Shekhawat has said that he would
not resign his membership as a volunteer in the RSS, setting the stage
for a confrontation with the Central Govt.

-- 
Srinivas Sunder                                         sunder@crhc.uiuc.edu

If my employer shares these views, I'd be most surprised.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: akfs@unity.ncsu.edu (Ashwini NMI Kumar)
Subject: Re: NEARLY A DOZEN MOSQUES DESTROYED YESTERDAY
Organization: North Carolina State University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:58:03 GMT

In article <3331@ucl-cs.uucp> B.Kumar@cs.ucl.ac.uk writes:
>Repl to: soc.culture.indian, soc.culture.pakistan, soc.culture.bangladesh
>
>The earthquake department of Allah's adiministration destroyed
>nearly a dozen mosques in INDONESIA by causing a powerful earthquake
>on 15 devcember.
>
>BBC reported that this powerful earthquake killed over 1000 people 
>and injured several thousand others.
>


AND it is blamed on Hindus living in India or elsewhere !!!
and there will be thousands of posts on usenet....

Khameini is declaring bounty on Allah's head : |

flames to /dev/null
From: vidynath@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyarath K Rao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: hyderabadi muslims, patriotism etc.,.
Date: 20 Dec 1992 16:23:59 -0500
Organization: Me? Organized?
NNTP-Posting-Host: function.mps.ohio-state.edu

In article <1992Dec20.210028.25002@crd.ge.com>
  srinivas@vision.crd.ge.com (Chukka Srinivas) writes:
|>A majority of Indian people, be it Hindu or Muslim, belong to the first
|>category. On the top of it, Indian muslims have an added burden of being a
|>poor and illiterate minority among a constantly suscipicious majority.
|>Naturally, they feel much more insecure than Hindus. I am tired of repeating
|>this -- People identify with the nation only when they feel that it
|>addresses thier interests.

One of the great ironies of the current situation is that Hindus are saying
the same thing, about themselves. Except of course, Hindus have no other
object to which they can transfer their "loyalty" (except such things as 
Ram Janma Bhoomi, perhaps).

|>IF a majority of muslims (or any other group X) feel that India is not
|>serving their interests, they have as much right as you to demand and fight
|>for thier own country and decide what they want to do.

This is a two-edged sword. What happens if Indian Hindus say the same thing?


-- 
Vidhyanath Rao			It is the man, not the method, that solves
nathrao+@osu.edu		the problem. - Henri Poincare
(614)-366-9341			[as paraphrased by E. T. Bell]
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: nparkar@seamis1.gsfc.nasa.gov (Nuruddin Parkar)
Subject: Babri Mosque
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:05:58 GMT

=====================================================================
DEMOLITION OF MOSQUE : AN ACT OF TREACHERY

On Dec. 6,1992, communal forces have demolished the Babri Mosque.
It is the most severe blow to the dignity of our people and to
our democracy. It has plunged the nation into communal turmoil.
Every sane citizen is in a state of shock and despair. At this
moment, each of us has a resaponsibility to suppress rumours
and to work for peace in our locality. Violence is not our creed.
It always hurts the innocent. We must chalk out our strategy
to discredit the forces of national shame and free our culture
and polity from the clutches of communalism. We condemn in 
strongest possible terms the communal onslaught on our people and 
stand with them in this hour of crisis.

Vipin Tripathi
IIT Delhi
India
vkt@netearth.ernet.in
=====================================================================
From: t1gopal@shekel.wr.tek.com (Gopal Kulkarni)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: No ban in J & K -- HA! HA! HA!
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:47:50 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc.


Well done PVN !! What a realistic 'leader' you are ! What else can a person like you
do, when you hardly have any government, worth its name, in  J & K -- Allow fundamentalist militant organizations to reign over, right?!! ***Poor fellow ****!

Was not the ban on communal organizations required more in J&K than anywhere else?
Or, have you already given up as far as J&K is concerned. Doesn't, atleast GOI, ( if not any other country in the world, thank you cong) think that J&K is an integral part of India. If it is indeed so, please let the nation know in no uncertainity. 

We, the mere mortals here, scratching all our brains - all day, are for sure, the n th rate fools, in trying to tackle CNN over non-inclusion of J&K in Indian map!!!
Indians don't need any other instance to imagine your 'sincerity'.

The militants, fundamentalists and other enemies hired by the country across our borders, definitely did have their last laugh !! SHAME on you, PVN.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.african,soc.culture.latin-american
From: barakam@infonode.ingr.com (Sreedhar Barakam)
Subject: Re: debate: WORLD POPULATION CRISIS!
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:24:20 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.233022.22372@trl.oz.au> jbm@hal.trl.OZ.AU (Jacques Guy) writes:
>montas@stable.ecn.purdue.edu (Hubert J Montas) writes:
>
>>        I don't buy this overcrowding thing. There's enough room in Texas
>>alone to lodge the 5,000,000,000 people of this planet. Less than the area
>>of the US would be required to feed us. Check alt.activism for more details.
>
>
>Good, let them all go to Texas. Or perhaps even better, into Mr Hubert
>J Montas's skull. There seems to be plenty of empty room there.
>
Mr Montas probably had something else in mind.  Lodge them all under the
ground and that should produce a lot of texan-gas for the future and would
put the oil wells back where they are disappearing fast.

Sreedhar Barakam
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: 1rks@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (ravinder.k.sutravez)
Subject: Video Tape Conversion and Duplication
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:58:37 GMT
Keywords: NTSC-PAL-SECAM, Digital Video Tape Conversion, Highest Quality, On sale for $14.99 per tape


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AT&T Bell Labs
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
From: soumyo@med.unc.edu (Soumyo Mukherji)
Subject: ROOM AVAILABLE IN CHAPEL HILL/ CARRBORO
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:22:57 GMT


ROOM AVAILABLE IN CHAPEL HILL - CARRBORO AREA.

If anyone is going to attend University of North Carolina (Chapel Hill)
in spring and thereafter - this is an excellent oppurtunity. Features are

	1. 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom townhouse 
	2. Very quiet and peaceful neighborhood
	3. On busline, 1.6 miles from campus , 7 min from grocery.
	4. Living Room fully furnished (need bedroom furniture)
	5. Rent - unbelievably cheap considering the locality and 
	   general rents in Chapel Hill - Carrboro area.

	   ************************************************
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	CONTACT 

	Soumyo Mukherji or Lakshman Ramamurthy at 919-929-8043 or 
	e-mail to mukherji@bme.unc.edu

	Please try to e-mail at the address given - for I do not 
	read the mail regularly at the account I am posting this from.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: prasanth@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Ravi K. Prasanth)
Subject: Re: Hinduism and Idol Worship....
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 23:28:27 GMT

In article <1011@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, krvst+@pitt.edu (Koppampatt R Venkatesh) writes:
> whose main tenet is "Aham Brammasmi", a man's ultimate purpose on 
> earth is to realise the part of parashakti in him. A minute part of
> this supreme power is present in all humans and other life forms. 
> Once, a man realises this part of
> Godliness (or the supreme force) in him, he is said to have realised  
> the BRAMMAM  in him.

What I have to say is not related to idol worship, but to this
interpretation of "Aham Brahmasmi". When you say that a part of
Parashakti is present in humans, you are presupposing that humans
exist !! That is not quite in line with Vedic/Vedantic belief
which is "Nothing but God exists". So "Aham Brahmasmi" has the
meaning "I am God".

> definite form. So, idol worship was introduced to enable all people 
> perceive God in a tangible form and to appreciate the omnipresent and
> multifarious nature of the Supreme Power.
>

I agree. I have used landmarks to find my way to friends apts
many times. Idols serve the same purpose. They expediate your
search for God.

> K.R.Venkatesh.
> (krvst+@pitt.edu)
> 

RKP
From: vidynath@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyarath K Rao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: The Roots of the Recent Violence in India
Date: 14 Dec 1992 13:55:48 -0500
Organization: Me? Organized?
NNTP-Posting-Host: function.mps.ohio-state.edu
Keywords: violence, caste reservations, politics, religious disputes

In article <Bz9Hx9.76B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> vtg1714@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Vishwanath Tirupattur  ) writes:
|bond@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (  Girish) writes:
[...] (material relating to reservations deleted)
|>     An obscure Article in the Indian Constitution was used in the 70's  by
|>     the  Communist  provincial  government of West Bengal to challenge the
|>     right of the Hindus to run their schools and  colleges.  According  to
|>     this Article members of the majority religion do not have the right to
|>     establish their own religious schools whereas the  minority  religions
|>     do.  When  the Supreme Court of India upheld the interpretation of the
|>     Communists, several Hindu sects that ran schools filed for or received
|>     status  as  minority  religions  to prevent the government takeover of
|>     their schools.
|
|>     The government of India did not respond to this ruling of the court to
|>     try  to change the law so that all religions would be treated equally.
|>     This has led to a great resentment amongst the Hindus.
|
|Prof.  Kak does not seem to have his facts correct.  There are Hindu run 
|educational institutions all over the country.  I went to the 
|Sri Venkateshwara High School in Tirupathi which is run by the 
|TTD (Tirumala-Tirupathi Devastanams)

Last time I looked, Tirupati was not in West Bengal.

You see, some one must enforce the law, if it is indeed on the books. Kak
claims that the West Bengal goverment did enforce such a law. The writ of
WB govt runs only in WB. On top of that, Kak also says that sects
got themselves recognized as individual religions, rather than as sects of
Hinduism.

The most important question is: Was such a decision ever made by the
Supreme Court, and if the provision of the constitution still stand?
Perhaps, Professor Kak can give enough details that this can be looked up
in goverment publications.

If this allegation is true, secularism has been dead in India for years.

P.S. My father has been on the boards of some "hindu schools". According to
him, the regulations are different for "hindu educational institutions" and
"minority educational institutions". This is Tamil Nadu.


-- 
Vidhyanath Rao			It is the man, not the method, that solves
nathrao+@osu.edu		the problem. - Henri Poincare
(614)-366-9341			[as paraphrased by E. T. Bell]
From: sankar@unix386.Convergent.COM (Sankar Ramamoorthi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: info wanted
Date: 15 Dec 92 21:36:01 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Unisys/Convergent, San Jose, CA



A relative of mine has got admission in these universities
for the session beginning in spring 93.

	. Newyork Institute of Technology, NewYork.

	. Oklahoma city university.

He is intrested in finding out the following information about these
places.

	. Climate

	. Employment oppurtunities

	. Racism

If any of you have any information on the above please mail to me
at 
	sankar@convergent.com

Thanks in advance,

-- sankar --
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:41031 soc.culture.pakistan:18281
From: fafat@phakt.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Narrow Hindu Beliefs- was- Ram (Was he Fact or Fiction)??
Date: 16 Dec 1992 10:32:30 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu

Woopie Babu writes:
>fft> 	Depends on what you mean by "with finality". Science does'nt do
>fft> 	that. But what it does do is propound *logical* and *testable*
>fft> 	models. Scriptures do nothing of the sort.

>that's not true. probably YOU need modern psychologists to 
>accredit the (mostly psychological) theories of ancient India
>and China.

	duh? "psychologists"??? Anyway, you can remain fool-happy with your
	notions (and I with mine, of course.)

	FFT


Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
From: qureshi@ug.cs.dal.ca (Saqib Ahmed Qureshi)
Subject: Shame, shame:(was  Re: "...... to castrate the Hindus ...")
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 01:57:56 GMT


1:This is ridiculous ...somebody care to change the obscene subject header after
he/she reads this?
2:Welcome to the year 1992..yup..anybody noticed how tenaciously we cling to the
past? ..of others let alone ourselves? So even though lots of people invaded
what-not-places the fact remains that IF WE WANNA SLIT EACH OTHERS THROATS OUT
JUST FOR SOMETHING SOMEONE DID (WAY IN THE PAST) we remain a perfect candidate
for one of the most shamefull producs of what-ever-god-you-belive-in..or does
answering questions on an intellectual basis disturb someone here?
 The fact that I live in Canada means that I choose to.. no matter if I am a
Muslim and the majority here goes about doing things forbidden to me. I AM
RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT I DO RESPOSIBLE TO ALLAH. The fact that I have to co-exist
with them is not a problem..after all I' gonna be here for a long time :).
As for the person who wrote the header..think before you write. Your header 
hurt more than just the "target" group you aimed at..and even then I find it
very uncivilized.
 By the way, every one on this thread manages to say a lot of the same thing
over and over and over and ...(you get the idea). I hope I'm right when I say
the language we use here reflects what's cooking in our heads..then again..

				   -Saqib
From: venky@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (S Venkadesan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: e-mail source in bangalore?
Date: 14 Dec 1992 12:23:22 +0800
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5


Hello,
There are a number of E-mail sites at bangalore. I am giving a few
below:
@cdacb.ernet.in Centre for Development of advanced Computing
@cdotb.ernet.in as the name implies C-DoT
@crlbel.ernet.in Central Research Lab of BEL
@iimb.ernet.in  Indian Inst. of Management
There are a number of nodes at IISc; you could try any educated guess
for the department code e.g. @biochem.iisc.ernet.in will get you
biochemistry dept.
@itibang.ernet.in 
@rri.ernet.in Raman Reearch Inst.
I feel it would be very important that you know someone at any of these
addresses. Only they would be willing to receive and transmit message on
your behalf. When you know that your friend is in, let us say C-DoT but
do not know his correct mail name, then you could send the mail to
either root@the address or Postmaster@the address. You could try and
find some contact through another news group soc.culture.karnataka.
Anyway goodluck with your attempts. Bye
Venky