HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: Gene Wolfe's New Sun stuff
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 05:41:25 GMT

mbowman@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Michael Bowman):
>...Dorcas is Severian's GRANDmother, not his mother.  He thinks that the 
>waiter is her son (and hence Severian's father) and that the old man is her 
>husband (and Severian's grandfather).  His questions was: Who is Severian's 
>mother?  His answer is that it was the Autarch.

Nothing reading the book wouldn't cure.  Dorcas is Severian's grandmother.
She died about forty years earlier, giving birth to Ouen, the waiter.  Ouen
never married, but did have several lovers.  One of those, Catherine, who was
given to the torturers, was Severian's mother.  The Autarch was a eunuch.
Most of the details are brought out near the end of "Citadel of the Autarch".

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   God helpe the man so wrapt in Errours endless traine  -- Edmund Spenser


Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: enthrall@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Andrew Wolf)
Subject: Re: Piers Anthony: Tantham Mound
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 01:44:03 GMT

Chris previously said:

> You KNOW Piers personally?
> That's what your post implies....

Well, I suppose that's one way of putting it.  Yes, I was over at his house
last Spring Break, and have been in touch with him for quite some time,
now.

From one Piers fan to another....
From: lizi@ocf.berkeley.edu (Cosma R. Shalizi)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Notes on Asimov's "Foundation" trilogy
Date: 30 Sep 1992 00:30:24 GMT
Organization: Vampire Research Group at Berkeley :)
NNTP-Posting-Host: earthquake.berkeley.edu

In article <6850@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:
>In article <1992Sep29.142804.5118@newshost.unh.edu>  
>clc@kepler.unh.edu (Llamist Lliason) writes:
>> 
>> Weather plotting and prediction of the future are the same number  
>> of years away.
>
>I'm not a mathematician, but I have read a bit about Chaos 
>theory.  Chaos theory agrees with you. Both are the same
>number of years away, if infinity counts as a number.  The 
>problem is in both cases that small changes in initial
>conditions can result in MAJOR changes in result (the old
>"a butterfly flapping its wings in China causing a hurricane
>in the Atlantic" is pretty close to true). Thus, weather is 
>close to impossible to predict accurately more than a couple
>of days in advance.
>Jim Mann            
>Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  

    Ahem. This is true enough, if by "predict accurately" you mean something
on the order of "high in the upper 80s with a thunderstorm likely in the
afternoon." Chaos theory, or at any rate a particular chaotic model, would
be false if it ruled out "it gets damn hot and humid in the summer around
here" predictions, because we can obviously make them. In fact we can
even make more qualitative ones ("daytime highs between 85 and in July")
with very high accuracy, and no amount of butterflies would change that.
If the analogy holds, then psychohistory could predict "climate" and "climate
shifts" but not the "day to day weather" - which would probably have been
just fine with Dr. Seldin.
	Cosma Rohilla Shalizi
	In Real Life: lizi@ocf.berkeley.edu
	larval physicist currently strugling with chaos
	VP, Campus Crusade for Cthulhu, for which I DO speak
THE STARS ARE RIGHT: CTHULHU IN '92! DON'T SETTLE FOR THE LESSER EVIL!
-- 
"Some savages are persuaded by the 'natural light' that it is their duty to
 eat people, and even Voltaire's savages, who are led by the voice of reason
 to hold that one should only eat Jesuits, are not wholly satisfactory."
-Bertrand Russell on Rousseau in _A History of Western Philosophy_, p. 694
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: cpf@alchemy.TN.Cornell.EDU (Courtenay Footman)
Subject: Re: Robert Jordan's "Shadow Rising"
Organization: /usr/local/lib/news/organization
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 00:59:54 GMT

In Ithaca, NY, the local B. Dalton's had not even heard of the book (!).  On the
same day, it arrived at the local SF store (Borealis).  I finished it at 0600
Wednesday morning.  Someday I will learn how to put a book down.


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Courtenay Footman			I finally got back on the net.

cpf@alchemy.ithaca.ny.us		Now I will never get anything done
From: SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk (Arrowsmith)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: julian may
Date: 2 Oct 92 14:29:57 GMT
Organization: Surrealists against Lobsters

In article <1992Oct1.165314.27302@radian.uucp> kevina@.uucp (Kevin Adams) writes:
>In article <1acp7rINN3qp@seven-up.East.Sun.COM>, cbrunson@vermont.East.Sun.COM (Chuck Brunson - Sun BOS Corporate Software Engineering) writes:
>> Is "Intervention" just a combination of "The Surveillance" and
>> "The Metaconcert" or is it something more?
>
>"Intervention" was the single hardcover version of the two paperbacks. I
>guess the publishers felt that the book was too big, or they could just
>make more money splitting it in two. 
>
I would guess the later, as it only ever appeared over here as
"Intervention" -- took me ages to work out why Americans were talking
about "Surveillance" and "Metaconcert" as separate books (-8


--
\S
SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk           | There's nowt |"Stormy weather turns to blue;
sarrowsm@nyx.cs.du.edu        | so queer as  |"Here's a song to take with you:
                              | folk....     |  --Mike Oldfield, "Taurus II"
From: swf@teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Dewey Decimal for some authors
Date: 5 Oct 92 22:17:02 GMT
Reply-To: swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Organization: NCR Teradata Database Business Unit

In article <6965@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:
|
|Those don't look like Dewey Decimal numbers, which sometimes
|end with letters but never begin with them.  Are they
|perhaps Library of Congress numbers? (I don't now Library of
|Congress near as well as I know Dewey Decimal, since I grew up
|with the latter, and my local library still uses it.)
|
Could be - LC numbers that start with 'P' are either linguistics or
literature.  I suspect that most fiction would go into LC as literature.
The second letter, in this case, would be language of origin, or rather
language family of origin, followed by a 'subject' category number, followed
by an author/editor code (a '.' + letter + number).

Hmm, those 'author codes' look wrong - the letter is usually an initial.
[Thus David Brin would be .B###].

Oh well, at least it isn't Dewey.
-- 
sarima@teradata.com			(formerly tdatirv!sarima)
  or
Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:13038 sci.lang:7349
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,sci.lang
Subject: Re: Science Fiction books with linguistic content
From: rhamilt@husc9.harvard.edu (Rowan Hamilton)
Date: 26 Sep 92 18:53:50 GMT
 <1a1qqdINN3op@function.mps.ohio-state.edu> <1a27f3INNlgv@agate.berkeley.edu>

curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin) writes:

>In article <1a1qqdINN3op@function.mps.ohio-state.edu> edgar@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Gerald Edgar) writes:
>>
>>One of my favorites is _Riddley Walker_, by Russel Hoban.
>>The whole thing is in the narrator's own dialect, which is a future
>>form of English.  It requires concentration to read, but I think
>>it is well worth the effort.

>Hoban is an excellent writer; and I looked, once, at _Riddley Walker_,
>expecting to buy it.

>It was disappointing.  At a glance, Hoban's language seems to
>be nothing more than English with rather queer spelling.  Not
>used to express any concepts that English cannot perfectly well
>express; and even devoid of any interesting linguistic
>concepts.  Compare with, say, Burgess, or Wolfe.

>I'm unsure what the point of such a move is meant to be.  It
>certainly slows the pace of the novel, by making it harder to
>read at the lowest level; perhaps this adds to the book's
>flavor.  

I think you should re-read the book. The language employed - odd 
spelling included - was used to describe indirectly a culture which
was subtly different from our own. It's been awhile since I read 
_Riddley Walker_, but I remember that at the time I was very impressed
with how Hoban introduced the society and its mythology in such a 
way that they at first seemed very similar to our own (or at least
a short extrapolation from our own to a post-holocaust world), but by
the end of the book it was apparent that the culture described was
in fact different from our 'Western' culture in ways subtle and yet
quite dramatic.

At least, so it appeared to this nerd........
-- 
Rowan T. Hamilton                         "To dig this is to groove on
hamilton@huhepl.harvard.edu                   hella shit."
hamilton@fnald.fnal.gov                   - Some random skate-punk.
From: mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Chanur Series
Date: 5 Oct 92 20:56:34 GMT
Organization: DB and ES Subdivision, TU Vienna

From article <1992Oct5.162742.2764@walter.bellcore.com>, by mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch):
> My question is, do you suppose that "Chanur's Venture" and "The
> Kif Strike Back" were originally one book, and that someone (Cherryh?
> An editor? DAW Books?) decided it was too long, and had to be split?

I do not remember who is responsible, but the two and the fourth
Chanur book (Chanur's Homecoming?) were indeed conceived as one book
and then separated, i.e. there are two books, the second of which is
thinly disguised as a trilogy (seems similar to Cyteen, but I'm just
reading the first volume of that, so I can't tell for sure).

> Seems to me this belonged in the first book, "Pride of Chanur."

The point is that the first book stood on its own and predates the
others.  Obviously, when she decided to go on, she thought it would be
a good idea to provide background material on the Compact.  So when
the book was split up, the first part was the natural place to put the
appendix, since otherwise people would read it only after two volumes.

> BTW, I'm thoroughly enjoying these books.  They're good reads.

I agree.
-- 
Markus Stumptner                                mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at
University of Technology Vienna                 vexpert!mst@relay.eu.net
Paniglg. 16, A-1040 Vienna, Austria             ...mcsun!vexpert!mst
From: swf@teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Publication Dates (was Robert Jordan's "Shadow Rising")
Date: 1 Oct 92 18:13:03 GMT
Reply-To: swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Organization: NCR Teradata Database Business Unit

In article <1992Sep30.174612.24209@cas.org> lgs57@cas.org writes:
|
|Hardcovers
|Winds of Change-Lackey-not seen as of September 23rd

Have it in my car, bought it at B. Dalton's a couple of days ago.


-- 
sarima@teradata.com			(formerly tdatirv!sarima)
  or
Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:13082 aus.sf:508
From: DAVIS@licra.dn.mu.oz.au
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,aus.sf
Subject: A microshort story
Date: 28 Sep 92 07:21:10 GMT
Organization: Ludwig Institute for Cancer Research

My daughter's first science fiction story.  Remember this name.


THE MOON AND THE STARS by Laura Davis, age 2.  (Copyright (c) 1992)  8^}

Going to the moon and the stars tomorrow.
Going up very high on a birdie to the moon and the stars.
Might be dark.




(Editor's note:  There might be hope for the species after all.
Eat your heart out Asimov, wherever you are.)

Ian Davis                                  DAVIS@licr.dn.mu.oz.au
And if anybody is able to do it, she is.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: eschneid@sparc53.tamu.edu (Erich R Schneider)
Subject: Re: _Chanur's Legacy_ ... reviews?
Organization: Texas A&M University
	<2AC73C7F.16114@ics.uci.edu>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:16:03 GMT

In article <2AC73C7F.16114@ics.uci.edu> eppstein@wormwood.ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein) writes:

>On a perhaps unrelated subject...
>Which alien contact is it that the characters at the end of "40k in Gehenna"
>are called up to deal with?  I don't think it's the Compact, because
>it seems like that scene must happen well after the events in "Cyteen"
>(in "Cyteen", Gehenna remains sealed).  Maybe the Mri & Regul?

More likely the majat (the aliens in _Serpent's Reach_). I don't have
my copy of _Angel with the Sword_ (with handy post-2600 chronology)
handy, but I think the "first Gehennan leaves Gehenna" event occurs
very near the "contact with majat of Alpha Hydri" event. Certainly,
contact with the majat occurs much earlier than contact with the
regul, and the non-Reach humans in _Serpent's Reach_ are all described
as Unionists.  (_Cyteen_ mentions, in one of the "Question of Union"
sections, contact with the Compact by an expedition from Earth; I
think one of Tully's (marvelous) broken-hani explanations indicates
that he's from Earth (and not one of the other two of the "three
Compacts").)

Cherryh side-note: it wasn't until I reread _Downbelow Station_ last
year that I got the irony of a futuristic war between the "Company"
and the "Union".

--
Erich Schneider  eschneid@cs.tamu.edu

"The Hierophant is Disguised and Confused."
From: greyfire@ecst.csuchico.edu (Tom Talley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: author'n'title...
Date: 28 Sep 92 22:49:32 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico

In article <1992Sep28.213242.21458@newshost.unh.edu> clc@kepler.unh.edu (Llamist Lliason) writes:
>In article <1992Sep28.183203.14991@kth.se> TordM@VanA.PhySto.SE writes:
>>
>> hello! I remember reading a book a long time ago about some dude going to
>>another planet keeping contact with earth. during his going over the surface
>>he heard a voice saying something like "my brains for yours!", and this slime
>>mold thing did something to him. back on earth he was able to transform to
>>some kind of wolf-like creature, and he was hunted. this is all I remember.
>> does any of this ring a bell? does anybody know what book this is??
>>any replies appreciated!
>
>Yeah.  It was called _Foundation._  I think Piers Anthony wrote it.
>

No it definatly was not.  This actually sounds like two Clifford D. Simik [sp?]
novels.  The one with the man turning into the wolf creature and being hunted
is 'The Werewolf Principle'.  The other whose title escapes me is about 
telepathic exploration and what happens when one explorer encounters something 
very strange.  The key scene from early in the book has him encountering a 
strange pink blob which says "My mind for yours" and the story takes off 
from there.


-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Talley                            |   
greyfire@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu     |         Lurker at large.  
voice: 916-893-5625                   |                     
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: steinarb@idt.unit.no (Steinar Bang)
Subject: Re: Coming of Age novels (was Re: Count Geiger's Blues and Jumper)
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology, Trondheim, Norway
Date: 30 Sep 92 10:27:49

>>>>> jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:

> 	I happened to recently read 'Orbital Resonance' and 'Rite of
> Passage' back to back. What are the great SF 'coming of age' novels?
> I'd put 'The Wild Shore' on the list (and, I suppose the other two
> books in that series), but what else should go on the cannonical
> list of CoA books?

"Citizen of the Galaxy", Robert Heinlein
 (actually a lot of Heinlein's juveniles would fit the bill, but none
of them are up to the standard of _CotG_).

- Steinar
Organization: Masters student, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:39:27 -0400 
From: Richard Iswara <ri0a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: _Winds of Change_ by Mercedes Lackey (spoilers now)
	<1a8l7bINNl6h@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>

On 29-Sep-92 in Re: _Winds of Change_ by Me..
user Heather Garvey@skybridge writes:
> 
>lhb6v@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Laura Hayes Burchard) writes:
>>In article <3-0nw0d.dani@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>	The question is...what does this mean that Savil is back
>and that she is *Kerowyn's* Companion? :-) <wonders if Kero's a
>mage, too. :)>
> 
It is not likely that Kero is mage gifted. I would imagine that if she is, 
Kethry would find that out when she was trained. As for why Savil is back, 
who knows? Maybe she is the one that will call out to Vanyel?

>>>-- Tarma has a new job, giving lessons to new Kal'enedral (expected)
>>
>>Right, that was the Kal'enedral that recognized them, I should have 
>>figured it out :)
> 
>	I hadn't realized she was *dead*! Did I just miss this 
>somewhere (likely) or was it never really mentioned? [Before anyone
>asks why she'd have to be dead, she was a Veiled One....]
> 
It was never mentioned in By The Sword or any of the Mage Winds books. But it
kind of makes sense. She was already *old* when she trained Kero, and Kero is
a bit older than Selenay. 

Richard

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ins894r@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Aaron Wigley [Wigs])
Subject: Re: julian may and Fury (spoilers)
Organization: Monash University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 15:49:13 GMT

Okay, I've now got references to back this up :-)

Aaron Wigley [Wigs] (ins894r@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au) wrote:
: Damian Mehers (mehers@rutile.enet.dec.com) wrote:
: : Talking about Julian May, does anyone have any clues as to the identity
: : of 'Fury' from JTB?
: 

Evidence for Marc being the Family Ghost:
	very last page of "Intervention", Rogi calls the Ghost by the 
  name of Marc, after some small talk.

: Most definitely Felice. In Jtb, Fury refers to MacGregor as the
: Great Enemy, this would have resulted from the encounters between
: Felice and Aiken Drum in the Pliocene. 

Evidence for Felice/Culliket being Fury:
	Prologue One, from "The Adversary", when Elizabeth, Minanonn,
  Dionket and Creyn assisted at the Rio Genil:

	`Deep under thousands of tons of steaming rock at a shallow ford 
  in the Rio Genil, a tiny thing like a ruby cylinder burned whitely at
  the core . . . 
	"I've found Felice." Elizabeth opened her eyes, transmitted the
  image to Minanonn. "And Cull, too."
	Elizabeth! they live?
	You might call it that. Or suspension. Or limbo.
	Such a state beyond understanding.
	Not myunderstanding! I have been. [Fiery cocoon image.]
	Tana--! You humans. But Cull . . .
	. . . is there of his freechoice. Lifeclinging.
	Suffering Withoutend!
	Alive nonetheless in pseudoUnity. 
	`
	Felice survived, and was placed inside the Room without Doors, 
from which not even Marc could touch her. In effect, Felice/Culliket became
the first Lylmik.

: As for Victor, I possibly favor the idea Fury influenced Victor, and
: not the other way around. Victor could have learned the subsumption
: trick (the draining) from Fury - it's identical to what Hydra is now
: using.

Another reference I found in "Intervention". Could Kieran O'Connor's
"Black Mother" be Fury? From page 623 of the paperback Intervention:
	"Forgive me Black Mother soon I will return. ..."
and then over the page:
	" .. It should have been the daughter to inherit the night, 
  not the daughter's daughter. But Kali would have her jest . . . O 
  Mother of Power, forgive her as  you forgive me.
	She would be coming, even though he had forbidden it, eager
  for the final trachery. So be it. Devouring Mother I would give her 
  to you myself if I could. But I dare not waste the least spark of 
  my dwindling powers. Please understand. Dam dham nam tam --
	"

: : Damian
: 
The Wigs of Oz,
Aaron Wigley
From: uprao@mcl.ucsb.edu (Parik Rao)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Robert Jordan's "Shadow Rising"
Date: 1 Oct 92 00:59:04 GMT
Reply-To: uprao@mcl.ucsb.edu
Organization: U.C. Santa Barbara

In <1992Sep29.164712.16336@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> root@austin.ibm.com writes:

>    Where did you find it?  I went to the book store last night and they said 
>publisher 
>wasn't releasing it until 11/15.

I just bought mine from the campus bookstore today, paid full price :( but
I couldn't wait ($24.95), and it was the second to last copy.  Its got a
GREAT cover on it, shows the group (Min, Rand, the other two boys, and one
more boy) sitting in front of a wagon (Tinkerers?) in the middle of a
desert/canyon (Aiel Wastes?).

A total of 701 pages, NO PROLOGUE (bummer, the first books prologue has to
go down as a great intro), nor is there a preview of what happens in
book #5.

Now I must repeat the chant, "I will not read this book till the weekend...
I have homework to do... I will not read this book till the weekend..."

--
parik rao						       prao@cs.ucsb.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill)
Subject: Re: Enders Trilogy by Orson Scott Card
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written
Organization: Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:14:31 GMT

>andrew@tagsys.com (Andrew Gideon) writes:
>>In article <927@hobby.ukc.ac.uk> mb7@ukc.ac.uk (M.Bloom) writes:
>>>      [..........]
>>>there is a 4th book after Xenocide? In the preface to Speaker for the Dead,
>>>the author mentions that he split Xenocide into two books, due to it's
>>>length. Did this happen?
>>
>>Well, I met Mr. Card when he signed a stack of books for
>>me.  It was just when _Xenocide_ was released.  When
>>asked (I don't recall whether I asked, or if it was my
>>sister-in-law, or some other person), he claimed that the
>>forth book already existed.  They (the publisher) had
>>decided to hold it for a while.
>
So what I would like to know is whether my paperback copy of
'Xenocide', in excess of 500 pages, is the _whole_ story, or is it
only the first half?  Does anyone know for sure?  I'm asking only
because so far, I've found it to be one of those incredibly
fascinating stories one hopes never ends.  (In checking the page count
I inadvertantly read the last line of the book--looks like a clean
ending to me, but of course I won't know for sure until I've read the
whole thing)

---tom

l~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~l
l      CRUSH---CompassionRespectUnderstandingSelfHonesty---CRUSH      l
l         How could you have ever lived your life without it?         l
l               Join Now, Apply Within.  Spread the word.             l
l____________________________      ---me, trying to save the world,   l
l wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca l                      from itself.       l
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:13137 rec.arts.books:17051
From: curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Science Fiction books with linguistic content
Date: 29 Sep 1992 02:48:21 GMT
Organization: CS Dept. Snakepit - Do Not Feed.
NNTP-Posting-Host: boa.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <28SEP199220034983@venus.tamu.edu> spb0457@venus.tamu.edu (SubGenius) writes:
>
>Of course.  Clements was a political commentator using fiction set in his
>own day, therefore he used dialects that existed a priori of the writing. 
>
>Hoban is a political commentator using science fiction set in some future
>day, therefore he uses a dialect that might exist a postori of the writing.

This is a rhetorical device invented by the Greek poet and brewer
Mavricles of Thebes.

He called it "demonstrandus anthonius."  Rediscovered in 1860 by the
peripatetic English pawnbroker, Charlesby-Hunt, it has recently
enjoyed a vogue, and most modern thinkers consider it one of the
more effective weapons in the advanced rhetorical arsenal.

A rough translation would be "proof by wordplay," although a
minority of wags continues to insist on "proof by pun."

c
and it's _Clemens_, dammit
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written