HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mussack@innerdoor.austin.ibm.com (Christopher Mussack)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Bored in Heaven
Date: 17 Nov 92 08:19:08 GMT

>Just exactly what do you do when you're in heaven?  Eternity is rather long.

Don't you ever watch Twilight Zone?

Remember the episode where the petty criminal is killed and an 
"angel" (Sebastian Cabot?) escorts him to his "final reward"?
It is an impressive hotel suite, everything is paid for.
There are gaming tables downstairs, of course he wins every time.
Women are easily seduced. After a couple weeks he summons the
"angel" and tells him he wants to rob a bank. Well it's all too 
easy, he gets away with millions of dollars, so what, 
everything's free anyway. He has no friends,
who he figures are all in the "other place". He summons the
"angel" and tells him he's bored and wants to leave heaven
and go to the "other place".

"You want to leave heaven and go to the 'other place'?" mocks the
"angel." "My dear sir, you _are_ in the 'other place'! Ha ha ha ..."
fade to black over the "angel's" wicked laughter.

There's another episode where the mountain man and his dog
are killed on a hunting trip and are walking along the eternity
road wondering what to do. They come to a gate, the gate-keeper
says it's heaven, come on in, we got your harp all ready, but
you can't bring your dog. No thanks, I'll see what 
else is down the road. 

Well, down the road is another gate, the gate-keeper says welcome, 
friend, we been waitin' for ya, there's a big square dance tonight
and tomorrow we's all a-goin' huntin'. Can I bring my dog?
O'course, how can ya hunt without a dog? What about that other
place down the road? Oh that's ole Scratch's place, glad he didn't
fool ya. Well almost, but I don't go nowhere without my dog.
Is that roast possum I smell?

When I was a kid I imagined heaven was a place where the drinking
fountains dispensed root beer. My kids think there are flying
ponies to ride and talking cats. 

You asked what "exactly" do we do and none of us here know. 
However, using the "boring heaven" excuse makes as much sense 
as saying "I can't love God, I don't like beards."

Chris Mussack

- Seen in a cartoon on a nameless colleague's door:
    St. Peter: "Welcome to heaven, here's your Mac." 
    Lucifer: "Welcome to hell, here's your IBM PC."
From: woodford@fourier.ece.cmu.edu (Paul Woodford)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Need Christian Jokes...
Date: 19 Nov 92 06:45:55 GMT
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon

This was posted on rec.humor.funny today.  No guaranties, express or
implied, on the theology contained herein.

----------
Article 4061 of rec.humor.funny:
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 19:30:03 EST
From: ronnyk@cs.stanford.edu (Ronny Kohavi)
Subject: Why God Never Received Tenure at the University

I got this from Alon Efrat at the Technion, Isarel.


Why God Never Received Tenure at the University
-----------------------------------------------
1. Because He had only one major publication.
2. And it was in Hebrew.
3. And it had no references.
4. And it wasn't published in a refereed journal.
5. And some even doubt He wrote it himself.
6. It may be true that He created the world but what has He published/done
   since ?
7. His cooperative efforts have been quite limited.
8. The scientific community has had a very rough time trying to repeat
   His results.
----------

Paul Woodford
woodford@ece.cmu.edu
From: phoenix@cwis.unomaha.edu (Shannon Chris Saltzman)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: suicide- is it a sin in God's eyes.
Date: 17 Nov 92 08:01:25 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha

I look at it this way(actually two ways)
1...It is throwing Gods most precious gift back in his face.
2...It is telling God that he isnt powerful and loving enough
to work with you on your problems. It is saying"I will be the one
in charge, not you.You can be savior but not lord!".

That is how I look at it.
Shannon Saltzman

-- 
From the coffee table of MR SHANNON SALTZMAN
"Is doggie heavan kitty hell?"
     Stephanie Phoenix(age 6)
This in everyway represents the authors opinion!!!(take it if ya want)
From: marlatt@spot.Colorado.EDU (Stuart W. Marlatt)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Need Christian Jokes...
Date: 19 Nov 92 07:15:51 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

There's a whole series of puns, taken out of context from
scripture. I can only recall a few - perhaps someone else will fill
in some more:

	What is the first description of a baseball game?
	Gen. 1.1 - play-by-play of the big inning.
	
	What is the first record of a motorcycle?
	Joshua's Triumph was heard throughout the land.

	What was the first record of an automobile accident?
	David drove his Javelin into the wall.

There are many others. 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I grow old...I grow old...                                                
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled.                           
  --T.S. Eliot,  The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock                      
..............................................................................
s.w. marlatt, <><  &  *(:-)               Prov. 25.2
University of Colorado:                   marlatt@spot.Colorado.edu  492-3939
National Center for Atmospheric Research: marlatt@neit.cgd.ucar.edu  497-1669
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sungho@crhc.uiuc.edu (Sungho Kim)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Near death experience anyone?
Date: 17 Nov 92 08:38:40 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

Hello,

I would like to share a terrifying experience I had.

Last year, I was on a Boeing727 that could not land because the
landing gear was not working.  After realizing that the plane
could not land, the pilot changed its direction and
soon the airport was out of sight.  It was dead quite. Nobody said anything.
And, no encouraging announcement from the cabin, either.  

Many thoughts passed my head. (By the way, I didn't believe in god.)
First, to increase the chance of surviving, I thought about changing
my seat.

Then, I thought about calling home using the airphone.(Say the
last words to my parents.)  

Then, I realized that I was totally helpless. 
Then, there was a And, I felt that God was
in total control over me.  
I thought "God gave me a life and let me live my life on my own
and kept a record of everything I did until this moment.  He 
decided to end my life today for I have sinned more than I have done good."

I did not pray to God for mercy. I was scared and did regret that I
didn`t meet God's expectation of me, but I
faced the last moment like a man.  After about 20 minutes elapsed,
the landing gear became working and the plane landed. The pilot
apolozised for the 'inconvinience' in emotionless voice after the 
plane touched down.
From: isc10030@nusunix1.nus.sg (OEI ENG HAUW)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Hi,Brothers & Sisters-In-Christ
Date: 18 Nov 92 06:26:11 GMT
Organization: National University of Singapore

Hi ! Greetings to all Christians outthere !
My Christian name is Simon Oei.
A child of God for 4 years and still growing spiritually.
I just happen to learn how to use this system.
Wow ! what a system.
I would like to know some Christian from oversea thru' this
system.
Please mail to me if you also would like to have a
Brother-In-Christ who is in Singapore.

  May God Bless You.

        Be Blessing, Glory and Honour Belong to Him Forever and
                                                          ever, Amen.

                                         Merry Christmas !

                                                    Simon Oei.
From: tebert@utdallas.edu (Tim Ebert)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Jesus, not dogma
Date: 23 Nov 92 02:05:58 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Texas at Dallas

>If anyone wants to hear more about the power of God and transformed
>lives, why don't they start it off.
>
>Joel Norris			"The fear of the LORD
>				 is the beginning of knowledge."
>jnorris@u.washington.edu	 -- Proverbs 1:7

How about it?  Anybody up to the challange?
I praise God for saving my life in a near-fatal car
wreck in 83......how's that for a start?

God Bless,
*** tim

Tim Ebert
University of Texas @ Dallas
From: REXLEX@linac.fnal.gov
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Door-to-Door evangel.
Date: 19 Nov 92 07:16:00 GMT
Organization: FNAL

In article <Nov.13.02.17.37.1992.19258@geneva.rutgers.edu>
tony@swrinde.nde.swri.edu (Anthony R. Benitez) writes:

>Oh! Rex!
>
>The dangerous theology here is "Maybe the Lord has been trying..."!
>I want you to point out ONE instance in the Bible where the Lord
>"TRIED" to do anything.  

There is an excellent book that comes to mind at this juncture.  It is written
by JI Packer, and called "Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God."  Perhaps you
find the time to read it.  It is published by InterVarsity Press, 1961.  

Rex
From: rolfe@dsuvax.dsu.edu (Tim Rolfe)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Unanswered Prayers, Why?
Date: 19 Nov 92 06:59:55 GMT

In <Nov.18.05.18.34.1992.4585@athos.rutgers.edu> Steve.Gross@lambada.oit.unc.edu (Steve Gross) writes:

[...]

>There are 14 main reasons why a Christians prayers may not be answered in
>my opinion.  They are listed below.

[...]

Lest we forget:  often the prayers ARE answered; the answer is "NO".  Cf.
II Cor 12:8 for an explicit example.
-- 
                                              --- Tim Rolfe
                                           rolfe@dsuvax.dsu.edu
                                            ROLFE@SDNET.BITNET
From: caw@gtech.com (Christopher A. White)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: (long) Re: suicide- is it a sin in God's eyes.
Date: 20 Nov 92 05:46:22 GMT
Organization: GTECH Corporation, West Greenwich, RI

I haven't seen these particular lines of thought explored yet, so I'll
bring it up...

So far, most of the suicide/sin discussion has seemed to run on the 
assumption that the person is rational. However, suicide is a 
thoroughly irrational act (in most cases). We need to consider the
suicidal person as being mentally incapable of rationalizing in the
way that we are talking about. I don't believe that suicide is sin 
because the person is not able to comprehend the cause/effect nature
that that concept involves.

Suicide is the last link in a very long chain of events, a chain that 
is sometimes several generations long. It invoves brain physiology,
chemical and hormonal balances, as well as intellectual and emotional
development. Any 'sins' involved in suicide happened a lot earlier in
that chain of events.

I also find the concept that 'if you kill yourself your denying God's
power to help you' an offensive statement. It is a concise, meaningless
and abstract evaluation of a complicated, meaningful and real problem.
Such a statement is about as helpful as telling them to 'Just pray
about it.' No! As a body of believers we must start digging in and
finding real (read: concrete and specific) ways to identify, treat and
prevent the suicidal individual. 

And as for the argument that it is sin because you are hurting those
that love you - hogwash! The suicidal person fully believes that
(s)he is a) doing what their loved ones really want them to do, b)
making life easier/simpler for their loved ones, and/or c) helping
their loved ones out of a complicated/painful situation. Suicide which
is a deliberate attempt to hurt loved ones is (in most if not all cases)
not intended to be successful. Such suicides become suicides accidentally
(they are not found and taken to the hospital in the time frame they
had planned, as a classic example).

We should stop trying to condemn the suicidal person and console everyone
else and start condeming ourselves and consoling the suicidal person
*before* they act.


MHO, of course,


Topher
-- 
 Christopher A. White                    | 
 caw@gtech.com                           | Free will is largely overrated. 
 GTech Corporation, West Greenwich, RI   | 
 The opinions expressed are mine alone   |           - Topher
From: djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Ends justify the means?
Date: 18 Nov 92 10:18:47 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

>This is just a tangetical thought (or maybe not). I have often asked 
>people the question: "If you got nothing from serving Christ; no power,
>no peace, no wisdom, no love; if you still went to hell (which you
>still deserve); if you go *nothing* of benefit from serving Christ, 
>would you?" 

Hmm, some information seems missing from the question.  Would this
imply no-one would be able to get to Heaven?  That Christ is a
different person (ie, just another prophet)?  Or would this lack
of grace and love apply only to myself?  Remember, there are plenty
of agnostics and atheists who feed the poor, shelter the homeless,
and comfort those in need, which is "serving Christ" in a sense.
(does the question assume I still believe there is a God?)

>If the only reason you want to serve Christ
>is to escape hell, who are you really serving?

I agree with the sentiment here.  If that's the only reason, something
is lacking.  And to answer the original question, I would say yes,
although I might be more lax in the "ends justify the means" department.
-- 
Darin Johnson
djohnson@ucsd.edu
  - Grad school - just say no.
From: altheimm@nextnet.ccs.csus.edu (Murray Altheim)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: RSV Study Bible Wanted
Date: 16 Nov 92 02:45:42 GMT
Organization: California State University Sacramento

In article <Nov.13.02.18.09.1992.19308@geneva.rutgers.edu> ahwg@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Andrew Hwang) writes:
>I'm looking for a study bible in Revised Standard Version (and not the recent
>revision, NRSV). I've contacted a few bookstores, including the Christian Book
>Distributor (CBD). So far, all I found was copies of expensive leather version
>of Oxford Annotated.
>
>So, if you have a RSV study bible (e.g. Harper, Oxford) that you don't use
>much anymore and are willing to sell, please contact me.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Andrew K. Hwang
>ahwg@troi.cc.rochester.edu


Andrew, 
I just received the Oxford catalog in the mail a few weeks ago, and they
sell a comprehensive selection, including some paperbacks and clothbounds.
I believe among all the various editions they did have a copy of the RSV.

If you're interested, e-mail on Monday and I'll try to remember to bring
the catalog from home, so I can return the phone number and address to you.

Blessings,

Murray  

-- 
Murray M. Altheim      "Ils ont l'orteil de Bouc, & d'un Chevreil l'oreille,
Instructional Consultant    La corne d'un Chamois, & la face vermeille
CSU, Sacramento          Comme un rouge Croissant: & dancent toute nuict
altheimm@csus.edu       Dedans un carrefour, ou pres d'une eau qui bruict."
From: DSIMON@thor.nafb.trw.com (D_SIMON)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Ends justify the means?
Date: 17 Nov 92 08:32:51 GMT
From: tebert@utdallas.edu (Tim Ebert)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Jesus, not dogma
Date: 17 Nov 92 07:59:20 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Texas at Dallas

I must admit I am rather disappointed in this group.
(Perhaps there is another group, but I don't think so..)

I don't want to hear arguments/discussions about dogma:
I want to hear about Jesus.  I want to hear people talk
about how God has become REAL for them in their lives.
I want to hear about how the power of God and the Holy
Spirit has transformed lives.  

That's why I left the church for 10 years and got away
from my faith: all the arguments about doctrine.  
I don't want to hear arguments about dogma...because
in the big picture, it really doesn't matter much.

What matters is Jesus!  I don't know the reference exactly,
but one verse says something like: "...I made up my mind to
know nothing but Christ, and Him crusified..."  

getting back to Him,
*** tim
From: ramsey@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Ed Ramsey)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Love in the Home
Date: 17 Nov 92 08:28:12 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

This was given to me during a bible study, and I wanted to share
it with the group. You are free to speculate as to *why* it was given
to me :-).


                        LOVE IN THE HOME
                        ----------------
        (A Paraphrase of First Corinthians Chapter Thirteen)


	Though in the glamour of the public eye I sway the emotions of
man by oratory, or by my silver singing, or by my skillful playing,
and then go home and gripe because supper is late, or because my
clothes weren't made to suit me, I am become as sounding brass or a
tinkling cymbal.

	And though I am able to impress others with my vast knowledge
of the deep things of the Word of God, and though I am able to
accomplish mighty things through faith so that I become famous among
men as a remover of mountains, and have not the love that reads the
deep longings of the hearts around the family circle, and removes the
barriers that grow up in shy and tender hearts, I am nothing.

	And though in the glamour of the public praise I bestow all my
goods to feed the poor, and though I win the name and fame of a martyr
by giving my body to be burned, and yet close up like a clam at home,
or behave like a snapping turtle, knowing nothing of the glory of
giving myself in unstinted, self-denying service to those nearest and
dearest, it profiteth me nothing.

	Love is not impatient, but kind; love knows no jealousy; love
makes no parade; gives itself no airs. Love is not rude; seeks not her
own; nor fights for her own rights; is not resentful; does not imagine
that others are plotting evil against her. Love does not brood over
wrongs; does not exult over the mistakes of others; but is truly
gladdened by goodness.

	Love is the acid test of the truly yielded live, for in all
other phases of Christian service there is a certain glamour; but in
the home one is confronted with the bare facts of life, stripped of
all glamour. The home is given to help every Christian "not to think
more highly of himself than he ought to think." And it is in the home
that we have the privilege of demonstrating that the Christian life is
"faith which worketh by love."

                                     -- author unknown


-Ed

Ed Ramsey ramsey@ceris.purdue.edu 317/494-0442 FAX/494-9727
CERIS (Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems)
Network Services Manager/UNIX Systems Administrator
-- 
Ed Ramsey ramsey@ceris.purdue.edu 317/494-0442 FAX/494-9727
CERIS (Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems)
Network Services Manager/UNIX Systems Administrator
From: caw@gtech.com (Christopher A. White)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Quantum Leap
Date: 16 Nov 92 02:52:33 GMT
Organization: GTECH Corporation, West Greenwich, RI

In article <Nov.12.02.56.52.1992.17211@geneva.rutgers.edu> REXLEX@linac.fnal.gov writes:
>Does anyone out there watch Quantum Leap besides me?

Every week

>Did you catch the little twist they put in Tuesday nites story? 

Of course

>I haven't quite idenified it.  It was
>YING & YANG plus some bent on the purgatory theme.   I'm not well versed in New
>Age, but what little I've read doesn't explain this episode either.  If I was
>to draw an analogy it would be that the girl was human but non-elect and her
>hologram was demonic. They had somehow acheived release from "hell" and were on
>the lose in time on earth.  The girl was a leaper like the hero of the program,
>but she came to "redeemer" herself by doing evil acts!  Satan was alluded to,
>but not named.  Did I miss something?

No, you didn't miss anything. I believe that they are setting up for a
returning role. We'll learn more and more throughout the seasons.

As to the Christian relativism of the stories, I have found Quantum Leap to
be phenomonally refreshing in its treatment of the subject. They imply,
quite strongly one should add, that Sam's leaps are controlled by a 
benevolent God. This is doubly reenforced by epsiodes like where he leaped
into the rain-maker.

The anti-leaper in this episode left a lot of questions. It does seem to
be a hell/anti-redemption theme. However, this would not explain the need
of her hologram or her AI system. Another notable lack is a complete
ignorance to whom Sam was (he being the father of leap technology). I
would estimate that it is more of an evil-genius-human behind things.

Which brings us to the next question. Have Sam and this other genius been
given this knowledge from their respective sources in some kind of Jobian
chess match? It pushes a rather interesting consideration on ourseleves
and others in history. Were Einstein and Hitler different sides to the
same coin - each a key piece in a spiritual chess match? All conjecture,
true, but a thought provoking conjecture.

What have you been given? Are you employing your energy in the great
spiritual chess match? How is the enemy trying to stop you, or undo 
the good you've done? Are you focussed on what you are doing here, or
just looking for 'the leap home?'

Questions, questions, beautiful questions ...


Topher
-- 
 Christopher A. White                    | 
 caw@gtech.com                           | Free will is largely overrated. 
 GTech Corporation, West Greenwich, RI   | 
 The opinions expressed are mine alone   |           - Topher
From: jww@evolving.com (John W. Woolley)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: My affiliation
Date: 19 Nov 92 07:09:39 GMT

Brothers and Sisters --

I was somewhat distressed to receive a strongly-worded rebuke from a Roman
Catholic reader of this group, upbraiding me for what he called "deceptive
tactics" in not making my Church affiliation explicit in my postings.  I
certainly wasn't trying to deceive or mislead anyone, and I'm sorry anyone
was offended; so I thought it might make for peace if I introduced myself.

I am a deacon of the Anglican Catholic Church.  We follow the usual
practice of the Eastern Church in addressing deacons as "Father".  (Hence
my signature.)  We consider ourselves Catholics, and with excellent reason
-- as I wrote our offended brother, in every disputed point of doctrine
or practice, the ACC (very distinct from the Episcopalians, by the way)
accords either with Rome or with the Orthodox East.  (And most often, of
course, with both.)  There is no single point on which we will hold a
Protestant theological position against Rome and the East.  Not one.

I think this makes us Catholics in at least one natural meaning of the
word.  We're sure not Protestants.

Like (I think) all the Catholics in this group, I cherish and value our
Protestant friends, and rejoice in their fellowship, insights, and prayers.
We have one Lord, one faith, one baptism; we live by the same Holy Ghost
and love the same God; so in spite of our real differences let us please!
always love each other.  We can argue, certainly, but let's do it in
charity, and as accurately, carefully, and humbly as we can.
----
Fr. John Woolley (jww@evolving.com); vastly enthusiastic about Augustine,
Austen, babies, Bach, backgammon, baseball, beer, the Bible, Botticelli, Burke,
Chesterton, Dante, Dixieland, hardboiled, Hitchcock, Dr Johnson, Latin, Mozart,
Shakespeare/de Vere, St Teresa, Tolkien, Trollope, Fats Waller, and Washington
From: jpersons@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John C Persons)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: bored.....
Date: 19 Nov 92 06:58:48 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <Nov.18.05.24.50.1992.4929@athos.rutgers.edu> phys224@cantva.canterbury.ac.nz writes:
>if we lived in eternity, we would do everything,say everything,and think
>everything infinitely many times.How could we not be bored? 

This presumes that there are only finitely many "things" to do, say, and
think.  One can choose a different real number each second and never run
out of numbers.

John