From: tlode@isis.cs.du.edu (trygve lode)
Subject: Re: Peeking through the curtain
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Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 18:06:41 GMT

In article <1992Apr5.190009.27945@mks.com> fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) writes:
>tlode@isis.cs.du.edu (trygve lode) writes:
>>Well, let's just say that, given a real person who appears trustworthy
>>and someone I know nothing about and might only imagine would have the
>>feelings you think he might
>
>Given the context of this conversation (the 'someone [you] know nothing
>about' being the husband of the woman you want to have sex with), you
>can bet that in the majority of the cases the husband is going to feel
>the way you seem to have difficulty imagining he might. In this society
>monogamy is still considered the norm in a marriage, and people get
>upset when their partner screws around on them.

Absolutely--fortunately (due to time and selectivity constraints) I
haven't slept with the majority of married women in this country.  I'm
not going to get sexually involved with someone unless I've come to 
the conclusion that she is trustworthy--if I don't feel she's being
honest with me, then the potential relationship has enough going
against it already that I wouldn't want to be in it.

>>The adults are the ones who take responsibility for their own actions
>>and accept the consequences of their decisions while treating others
>>(until proven otherwise) as capable of making their own decisions and
>>being responsible for them as well.
>
>It has been both my experience and observation that most people don't
>behave as 'adults (your definition above)' when it comes to sex.
>Unsafe sex, unwanted pregnancies abound.

True enough--another good reason why I don't have sex with the majority
of the population on the planet.  I tend to be attracted to intelligent,
competent, responsible women with at least a certain degree of self-esteem;
this seems to be conducive to responsible sexual behavior.

>Your insistence on believing a woman who says her husband "wouldn't mind",
>when, in the majority of the cases he would mind, makes you sound like you
>don't give a shit about innocent third parties when you stand to gain; is
>this how you made your millions ?
>
>(Yes, I know you said you found a couple of instances where the partner
> truly didn't mind; I've found one of those myself - of course, I asked
> to make sure, whereas you didn't ask and lucked out with the woman 
> actually being truthful and not deluded. However, these instances are few
> and far between.)

Once again, my standards for how much confidence I would have to have in
someone to sleep with her are higher than my standards for how much 
confidence I would have to have in someone to believe that her spouse
really didn't mind.  Even if I'm wrong--which hasn't happened yet, but
certainly could happen at some point in the future--the fact that she
would be actively seeking sexual partners outside the marriage and
doing so dishonestly points to some real marital problems that are
between the married couple and that I did not create.  I'm not responsible
for everyone else's behavior, attitudes, beliefs, feelings, and 
agreements, especially if I don't know about them.

If you're curious, both in business and in my personal life, I made a
consistent (and very successful) effort to avoid harming others along
the way--however, I do this based on my own judgment of the individuals
I deal with, not on arbitrary assumptions and the presumption that the
people I'm dealing with are being dishonest with me in a way that I
cannot detect.  

>	fred

Trygve
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