HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines)
Subject: Re: Coverup - gravity doesn't exist?
Originator: nickh@VOILA.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
	<1992Nov10.013657.7436@ee.ubc.ca>
Distribution: sci
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:38:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.013657.7436@ee.ubc.ca> davem@ee.ubc.ca (david michelson) writes:

   There are (were?) a couple of "Newtonian" apple trees planted
   outside the Triumf Meson Facility (world's largest cyclotrom) at the 
   University of British Columbia in Vancouver, too.  I gather that Cambridge
   University makes apple tree seeds which are direct descendants of the 
   trees from the orchard where Newton pondered available to deserving
   institutions.... 

If it were anyone, it would be Trinity College. But they don't. No
such orchard. I _have_ been to an orchard claimed as such a thing,
near where Newton used to live before (?) his Cambridge days: it's
near Grantham. There are apple trees there. But the people who run the
place (it's owned by the National Trust (? National Heritage? Some
such charity)) frankly admit that the whole apple thing is cobblers
and only useful to attract tourists.

Nick Haines nickh@cmu.edu
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Early life discussions
Date: 10 Nov 92 00:24:44 GMT
Distribution: sci
Organization: Computer Science Department University of Rochester


In article <BxGu18.Cxu.1@cs.cmu.edu> amon@elegabalus.cs.qub.ac.uk writes:

>There was another spate of discussion on early life recently, some of  
>which mentionied clay substrates. I thought this reference might be  
>of interest to those debaters:
>
>	Oligomerization of Ribonucleotides on Montmorillonite:
>	Reaction of the 5'- Phosphorimidazolide of Adenosine
>		James P. Ferris and Gozen Ertem
>	Science, 4-Sep-92, V257, p1387-1389


Now, tell us all about the experiments that made pure
5'-Phosphorimidazolide of Adenosine with a spark from CO2, nitrogen
and water.

It's a fine tradition in origin-of-life research to assume away
your starting materials.  Rather a waste of time, IMO.

	Paul F. Dietz
	dietz@cs.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: andy@osea.demon.co.uk (Andrew Haveland-Robinson)
Subject: Errors 
Distribution: world
Organization: Haveland-Robinson Associates
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 03:16:37 +0000


In article <BxEyt0.6Lq.1@cs.cmu.edu> roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov writes:

>-From: andy@osea.demon.co.uk (Andrew Haveland-Robinson)
>-Subject: NASA Coverup
>-Date: 8 Nov 92 03:34:51 GMT
>-Organization: Haveland-Robinson Associates
>
>-As one working in the media as a typesetter typos are a statistical fact,
>-following the same lines as bugs in code - they are never eradicated, just
>-get less significant.
>
>-It is therefore reasonable to expect that out of the 1000s of articles on
>-the subject and the complexity of editorial processes errors will occur.
>-Some information will be inaccurate or completely wrong.
>
>And once those errors get in, they tend to propagate indefinitely - it's
>impossible to get correction notices to everybody who read the original
>articles. That gives refereed publications a considerable advantage in 
>accuracy.
>
>John Roberts
>roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov

This propagation can be a real pain - hence the need for version control
on software projects.  This is directly related to genetic axioms where
"traits" (bugs, incorrect versions, mistakes etc)  get propagated.

Last year I produced all the colour graphics for a multimedia point-of-sale
machine using touch-screen technology for a large bank.

There were 130 colour images with graphic text to produce, with some elements
whittled down from 500 meg of scans...

If one image was used as a parent of child images then any errors or
modifications that needed doing had to be applied to the entire family.
It became clear that tracking these traits would become a major nightmare,
as they wouldn't be really evident until the images were running in sequence,
or would only be discovered in the process of modifying something else...

My solution was to build a massive "parts list", from which the images could
be created from scratch on demand, with the use of macros on the rare
occasions I needed to sleep!!  After three months of designing creating
editing and refining the images and working out just what the hell was going
on (palettes), the images were assembled semi-automatically in a week or so
for final delivery.

Perhaps there's a paradigm here...

Andy.

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Haveland-Robinson Associates   | Email: andy@osea.demon.co.uk         |
| 54 Greenfield Road, London     |        ahaveland@cix.compulink.co.uk |
| N15 5EP England. 081-800 1708  | Also:  0621-88756 081-802 4502       |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
>>>> Those that can, use applications. Those that can't, write them! <<<<
> Some dream of doing great things, while others stay awake and do them <
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: rkolker@nuchat.sccsi.com (Rich Kolker)
Subject: Re: What kind of computers are in the shuttle?
Organization: South Coast Computing Services, Inc.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 00:10:47 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.175336.22450@access.usask.ca> choy@skorpio.usask.ca (I am a terminator.) writes:
>The computers used to control the shuttle use very complex programs
>that people don't want to rewrite for newer computers. Has any
>upgrades been done or are the computers still the same old beasts?
>
>Henry Choy
>choy@cs.usask.ca

The shuttle computers have been upgraded.  The joke around is that 1960's technology h
has been replaced with 1980's technology, but they are a giant step forward.
.
Now, if we can just get the money for the glass cockpit...
.
++rich
:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
   rich kolker       rkolker@sccsi.com
                          It's been a long, long time
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: amon@elegabalus.cs.qub.ac.uk
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Early life discussions
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:20:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.BxGu18.Cxu.1
Distribution: sci
Organization: [via International Space University]
X-Added: Forwarded by Space Digest
Original-Sender: isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU

There was another spate of discussion on early life recently, some of  
which mentionied clay substrates. I thought this reference might be  
of interest to those debaters:

	Oligomerization of Ribonucleotides on Montmorillonite:
	Reaction of the 5'- Phosphorimidazolide of Adenosine
		James P. Ferris and Gozen Ertem
	Science, 4-Sep-92, V257, p1387-1389
Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.sci.planetary
From: stanczyk@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (STANCZYK MICHAEL B)
Subject: Space suit research???
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:23:20 GMT

With all the talk about US space suits being at 5 psi and pure O2 I was 
wondering what the current state of research is in space suits using
1 atm and normal air?

Mike Stanczyk
stanczyk@ucsu.colorado.edu
stanczyk@spot.colorado.edu
stanczyk@too.many.logins.colorado.edu

Newsgroups: sci.space
From: schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher)
Subject: Re: Drop nuc waste into
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 21:34:50 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Dumping it on Luna leaves real estate contimated, and the
radioactives unrecoverable (they'll mostly vaporize when they
hit and come back down as dust). Soft landing it on Luna adds
enormously to the cost.

As for dumping it into Venus: by the time we are able
to terraform Venus a miserable few billion Curies of well
dispersed radioactivity will be a trivial consideration.
From: dignard@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Michel Dignard)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Galileo HGA: Hypothesis
Summary: HGA stuck because of bent ribs or pre-launch protective cello?
Keywords: Galileo; HGA; ribs ; bending; envelope
Date: 10 Nov 92 14:06:20 GMT
Organization: Universite de Montreal

I imported the newly released GIF of Galileo High Gain Antenna (HGA)
photographed during its assembly [ames.arc.nasa.gov: /pub/SPACE/GIF/gllhga.gif].

It inspired me the two probably naive following hypothesis,
and I wonder if they have been eliminated.

Could the HGA be stucked because of:

1) One or more rib bent/compressed during encapsulation/decapsulation?

   One can observe the curvature at the base of each rib. I imagine the
   whole antenna has been encapsulated for launch and ascent, and the
   more "external" part of the ribs was probably close enough to the
   capsule to be accidentally compressed, either during assembly on ground,
   during ascent due to vibrations, or during the release of the capsule.
   [Or the capsule itself has been deformed at some point due to thermal
    effects.]

2) The transparent "celluloid" kind of dust protection envelope around
   the HGA during its preparation could have been accidentally torn
   when removed, and a piece has remained caught at the top of a rib
   and prevent it to be released, thereby exercising a retaining force
   on the whole assembly?
From: naraht@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu (Randolph J. Finder)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: on coverups
Date: 5 Nov 92 23:59:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: drycas.1992Nov6.045914.2475
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

On coverups.

Any coverup that requires active participation of > 1% of the population
and that is believed by >99% of the population is not exactly something
that I tend to believe is a coverup. Something that I do
like to get from people who believe in coverup is the number of people
who would have to be actively in it.

For example, what % of the population would have to be in on
a conspiracy to make people believe that the earth is round.
at least 50% of employees of NASA, most of the commercial airline
pilots, Anyone who has been to Antartica, and large majorities of
lots of other groups

The other side of it is what is the gain of the groups doing the coverup.
On that basis a JFK conspiracy at least has something going for it.

As an example of an event that was called a coverup and actually was:
the Katyn Massacre. The Katyn Massacre was a killing of a large number
of captured Polish Officers in 1941. Of the people who know what it
is a large number (Most Poles) believed that the Soviets did it rather
than the Nazis, who the Soviets said did it. It also is obvious what
the advantage of the cover-up is. the truth would have caused riots in
Poland against Soviet rule.


-- 
(naraht@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu)	  | Leadership,Friendship, and Service
(vri_rjfin@dmis.ha.osd.mil)	  |          Alpha Phi Omega
"The service we render to others  | National (Co-ed) Service Fraternity
 the rent we pay for our room on earth" - Sir Wilfred Grenfell
Xref: sparky sci.space:15722 alt.sci.planetary:286
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.sci.planetary
Subject: Re: Lunar "colony" reality check
Date: 11 Nov 1992 17:52:42 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Nov11.143433.18514@news.weeg.uiowa.edu>, jboggs@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu (John D. Boggs) writes:
=From article <1992Nov11.005151.15358@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov>, by jenkins@fritz (Steve Jenkins):
=> 
=> Oxygen, like many gases, has narcotic effects at very high pressures,
=> such as in deep-sea diving.  It can cause blindness in newborns
=> 
=
=Yes to blindness in newborns, but it is the *nitrogen* that has the narcotic
=effect in deep sea diving -- hence the use of helium for the really really
=deep dives.

If oxygen at high pressures DIDN'T cause the bad effects, why bother mixing it
with helium?  Yes, nitrogen has narcotic effects at high pressure, but so does
oxygen.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
From: roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov (John Roberts)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Slush Hydrogen
Date: 7 Nov 92 01:59:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.BxBpK9.41s.1
Distribution: sci
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology formerly National Bureau of Standards
X-Added: Forwarded by Space Digest
Original-Sender: isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU


-From: jtk@s1.gov (Jordin Kare)
-Subject: Re: Slush Hydrogen
-Date: 6 Nov 92 18:50:17 GMT
-Organization: LLNL

->What exactly is "slush hydrogen?"  

-	It's the stuff that covers the sidewalks after a 
-snowstorm on Jupiter :-)

No, it's an undocumented fuel reserve that can be used for covert and
unauthorized maneuvers (like retrieving an astronaut who was clowning
around in the Shuttle bay and lost his grip, and not telling anybody
about it. :-)

John Roberts
roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: higgins@fnalf.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey)
Subject: Making up nonsense (was Re: Man in space ... )
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:52:09 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalf.fnal.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <ewright.721079973@convex.convex.com>, ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) writes:
> In <720796989snx@osea.demon.co.uk> andy@osea.demon.co.uk (Andrew Haveland-Robinson) writes:
[reference to orginal posting has been lost.  It's denoted by ">>>" here.] 
>>>   What will happen if the space suite of an austronaut gets ripped 
>>>in space ?
>>>   Some of us recon that he will explode while others that he will end up 
>>>with lots of bruises!!. One thing that all of us agree, is that it is not
>>>going to be a very healthy activity.
> 
>>Well Nick, my feeling is that he would nearly explode.  
> 
> Well, Andrew, it's like this.  The universe just doesn't care how
> you *feel*.
> 
[explanation of what really happens deleted]

> All of this information has been publicly available for *decades.*
> So why do self-styled experts keep making up absolute nonsense
> instead of just reading the relevent literature?

Actually you have three choices:

1. Make up absolute nonsense.
2. Read the relevant literature.
3. Ask the readers of Usenet.

Choice 3 is not always appropriate, especially when 2 is available in
an almanac or encyclopedia.  In this case it wasn't a bad idea, but I
told Nick to use the fourth option:

4. Check the sci.space FAQ to see if the question is answered there.

As for Andy, I suppose he took what he knew about physics and biology
and speculated about the answer.  That doesn't seem to deserve Ed's
nasty tone... or does it?  You're allowed to be wrong around here, but
you have to put up with the kidding. E.g.:

Evidently Andy has seen *Total Recall* but not *2001*, or, if he's
seen both, he believes the former has more accurate science than the
latter.

Bill Higgins, Beam Jockey              | Comet Swift-Tuttle is
Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory  | Mama Nature's way of
Bitnet:           HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET  | saying it's time to 
Internet:       HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV  | get off the planet.
SPAN/Hepnet:           43011::HIGGINS  |   --Dale Amon
Xref: sparky sci.space:15750 alt.sci.planetary:295
From: soc1070
Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.sci.planetary
Subject: Re: Lunar "colony" reality check and Apollo fire
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:07:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: vx.11NOV199215071378
Organization: University of Minnesota CIS
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Nov11.163643.20662@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>, mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas) writes...
>In article <11NOV199208300719@vx.cis.umn.edu> soc1070                          writes:
>>>   The fire ignited the velcro under high-pressure, and the resultant toxic
>>>fumes killed the astronauts within seconds.
>>
>>I beg to differ. It was in fact Apollo 1, as many have pointed out. If you
>>check your Apollo history, you will see that 8 circled the moon, 9 did
>>LEO tests, 10 tested the LM in lunar orbit, 11 landed, 12 landed next to
>>the Surveyor, 13 blew an oxygen tank on the way to the moon, etc.
> 
>You are right, of course...  Rechecking my refs., I should have said 
>"Spacecraft 12" and not "Apollo 12".  Damn naming conventions.  :)
>Apollo 1 was the mission number, and Spacecraft 12 was the spacecraft
>name...Pardon my confusion.
> 
>>Secondly, the cause of the fire was never traced to any specific source.
>>According to Micheal Collens in _Carrying The Fire_, the inside of the
>>craft was so fried that a single cause could not be found; rather there
>>were several *probable* causes that resulted in an almost complete redesign
>>of the inside of the capsule. 
> 
>Correct.
> 
>>You were right that almost anything will burn at 16psi pure O2, even
>>stainless steel. Unfortunatly for Grissom, White, and Chaffee, they didn't
>>die of toxic fumes. It was the fire that did them.
> 
>I beg to differ on this point.  The burns weren't fatal.  The astronauts had
>suffocated.  The velcro and nylon netting in the spacecraft burned very *very*
>rapidly under 16psi of pure O2( later tests showed that the velcro burned at
>a rate of almost 3 inches per second), and filled the entire cabin with gas.
>The fire itself was very selective...a flight manual inside the craft (where
>White was located) was almost untouched.
> 
>-- 
>John Mechalas                                          "I'm not an actor, but
>mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu                                 I play one on TV."
>Aero Engineering, Purdue University                     #include disclaimer.h

I'll concede this one. Re-reading the section of _Carrying The Fire_,
the actual cause of death is not explectly stated. However, death by
burns is implied. The text makes it sound as though the entire inside
of the capsule was consumed by fire. Probably sells more books that way.

------
Tim Harincar				Millions long for immortality			
Central Minnesota 			who don't know what to do with
Association of Rocketry			themselves on a rainy Sunday 
soc1070@vx.cis.umn.edu			afternoon. -Susan Ertz
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com (Dave Jones)
Subject: Re: Obscure Help  Needed
Organization: Vonnegut Tent Rentals, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 15:28:29 GMT

James Davis Nicoll (jdnicoll@prism.ccs.uwo.ca) wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 	An embarrassing request: my  HP died and I discover I cannot
> remember how to  do logs with a slide-rule,  nor  can I find my sr-related
> texts. Clearly, I am  senile. Anyone out  there recall how  the damn  things
> work?
> 
You're serious, right?  I mean praying to the netgods is easier than dashing
down to the university bookstore with a $10 bill in hand?  OK, maybe you'd
need $20 for a calculator these days.

Anyway, the slide rule uses additivity of lengths to do it's stuff.  The
main scales are logarithmic, so when you add/subtract lengths, you
effectively multiply/divide.  If you really want to multiply/divide, 
you don't use logs, you just use the scales.  For x * y, align the
left extreme mark on the slide with 'x' on the body, then proceed along the
slide to 'y' and read of the value on the body next to it.  For x/y 
align 'y' on the slide with 'x' on the body and read off the answer from the
body at whichever extreme mark of the slide is on scale.

To get logs themselves with a slide rule, you have to have a log scale on
the rule.   I think this is just a linear scale, usually above the slide,
and you just read off values based on the main scale on the body.

Now when is my 1965 Faber-Castell going to become a collectors' item?

--
||Dave Jones (dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com)|Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, NY  |
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov (John Roberts)
Subject: Re: Mascons
X-Added: Forwarded by Space Digest
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology formerly National Bureau of Standards
Original-Sender: isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU
Distribution: sci
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 02:34:03 GMT


-From: wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Bruce Watson)
-Subject: Re: Mascons
-Date: 9 Nov 92 19:01:42 GMT
-Organization: Alpha Science Computer Network, Denver, Co.

-In article <BxBp22.3Jr.1@cs.cmu.edu| roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov (John Roberts) writes:
-|...................................... The Earth does have an equatorial
-|bulge (mentioned later in your post), which is caused by the rotation of the
-|planet, which I believe has the main effect of perturbing the ascending node
-|of high-inclination orbits.

-The amount of rotation is proportional to cos(inclination), higher orders
-neglected, so there is rotation at all inclinations except i=90 where it
-is zero and i=0 where the ascending node in undefined.

That was sloppiness on my part - I was unwilling to put in an extra
paragraph to comment that low-inclination orbits would also be affected to
a lesser extent. Thanks for quantifying the difference.

By the way, in the gravity references I've been looking through, nobody
considers the gravitational anomalies caused by the Earth's equatorial
bulge or the the moon's off-center mass distribution to be "mascons" -
that term is reserved for more localized effects.

The Earth appears to be pretty much in isostatic equilibrium, except for
some very small regions of large imbalance. For the most part, the absolute
magnitude of the mascon-induced anomalies appears to be less on the Earth than
on the moon (one reference mentions "a few ppm" = a few tens of mgal), and
I would presume that the much greater mass and surface gravity of the Earth 
would tend to render these effects less significant in terms of the 
perturbation of orbits.

John Roberts
roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov

Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.sci.planetary
From: andrew@mks.com (Andrew Hamilton-Wright)
Subject: Re: Lunar "colony" reality check
Organization: Mortice Kern Systems Inc., Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:31:19 GMT

In article <BxKJ3t.Dux@acsu.buffalo.edu> v071pzp4@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Craig L. Cole) writes:

>I'm no expert at deep sea diving or anything, but don't they use the helium
>to increase to total atmospheric pressure in their submerisibles? So that
>the pressure inside and outside the craft are more equal?
>
>This is the opposite of space --  these guys are trying keep there craft
>from imploding due to pressure. Increasing the pressure inside the craft
>reduces the loads on the craft's strucutre.

True, and the mix gas at very high pressures is He to avoid Nitrogen 
Narcosis (intoxification - Leads to one of my Favourites : Martini's
Law - Sixty feet down = 1 Martini)

But this brings up another point I have always wondered about:  Does
the sudden decompression of the capsule during ascent (The previously
mentioned drop in pressure from near atmospheric to the .3 atm mentioned)
cause any (temporary) medical effects similar to the 'bends' found in
diving when returning from a high pressure environment to a low?
These effects are driven by the presure ratios involved.
(Said effects would include temporary numbness, shortness of breath,
(which I am sure occurs anyway) and possible pain in the joints)

-andrew
-- 
    /||  // // ,'/""\'   Andrew Hamilton-Wright  andrew@mks.com  (519)884-2251 
   / ||/// //\' `\\\     Database(Admin),        Mortice Kern Systems Inc.
  /  |/ /_//  \\___/     56 Scottsdale, Guelph,Ont.   
o/ "Everything is possible except skiing through a revolving door"
Newsgroups: sci.space