HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: laura@hoptoad.uucp (Laura Creighton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Historical perspective
Date: 12 Nov 92 12:56:48 GMT
Reply-To: laura@hoptoad.UUCP (God)
Organization: Nebula Consultants in San Francisco

In article <1992Nov8.125528.13396@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>For hate to go away takes at least two things: you have to
>wait for millions and millions of people to die natural
>deaths; that's a minimum of 60 years, right there.  The much
>harder task -- if it could be done in less than 10
>generations, I would be very surprised -- is to discover
>what it is about human beings that creates and nourishes
>hatred, enabling it to be projected forward into succeeding
>generations, then finding an effective remedy for this
>deep-seated character flaw.

I most certainly don't have the whole answer, but I believe
I have a good part of it.  Before the Industrial Revolution,
more than 80% of one's children would die of starvation.
This trrend is seen in pre and post industrial Revolution
societies in Europe, in Asia, in New Guinea .. I don't know
one where that trend didn't happen.      

Before that time, starving to death was a very basic reality.
All of human history is steeped in this.  If you have limited
resources, which you must hoard to live, then hating the
different is a good survival tool.  Everybody must take
care of their own, and let those different starve.

Right now we do not live in scarcity times.  We need to figure
out how to share abundance-thinking before we can figure out
how to share the abundance.  Just confiscating abundance from
those who have and giving it to those who don't is no long
term solution.  When you see the politics of scarcity, you
see hatred.  To get rid of hatred you need to make a
fundamental change in thinking -- ``there is more than
enough to go around, and we all will get enough''.

This will take generations, many generations.

My only hit for fixing this is to post things like this
now and then, and talk to people.
From: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM (Howard Solomon - SunExpress Support Engineer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Size of LGB Vote
Date: 5 Nov 1992 22:38:25 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: the-temple.east.sun.com

In article 11633@PacBell.COM, rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams) writes:
>
>2.4 percent of those polled identified themselves as
>homosexual or bisexual, but Murray Edelman, the poll director,
>believes this was an undercount.  "Many people are reluctant
>to disclose their homosexuality, and many do not fill out the
>poll questionnaire all the way to the end, where the question
>was."  He estimated the gay vote at "possibly 4 or 5 percent,
>which would make it the size of the Jewish vote."
>
-- 
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I wonder if anyone has additional related information.  The Jewish vote,
for example, is very interesting because Jews comprise about 2.5 % of the
population, but about 5% of the vote because JEWS VOTE.  I wonder whether
gays tend to vote or tend not too.  I suspect, though, the reluctance to
answer might make an answer difficult to get.  Anyone on motss who did
not vote?

Howard


---
========================================================================
Howard I. Solomon			|ELECTION '92
Software Support Engineer, SunExpress	|Hold your nose and vote for Bill!
his@east.sun.com			|
=========================================================================
From: stine@Stars.Reston.Unisys.COM (John P. Stine)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Coors (was Re: Boycott Colorado)
Date: 7 Nov 92 20:04:43 GMT
Reply-To: stine@Stars.Reston.Unisys.COM (John P. Stine)
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Paramax Systems Corporation, Reston, VA

In article <1992Nov5.221230.11355@tc.cornell.edu> shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
>Coors generally has a pretty terrible track record with
>the gay community.  They've cleaned it up in the past few
>years, but I'm still not surprised to hear that they (or
>members of their board) supported CFV.

I'm currently working with Coors Brewing Company, Inc., to get them
to issue a statement of their non-support for measure 2.  I've
advised them of the boycott against Colorado, and they (obviously)
wanted to avoid being boycotted.

For the record, they stated that their policies prohibit them from
taking stands on *any* measures which come up for popular vote.  They
said nothing publically regarding this measure.  When the spokesman
told me this, I responded "Well, the queer community has a phrase
for that:  Silence = Death."

For the next few days, I'm going to hold off on encouraging
local queer bars to drop Coors products, until I give Coors
a chance to come in on our side of the issue.  If they refuse
to issue a public statement on this issue, that'll give us
decided boycott material.  I'd like to encourage all of you
to hold off on a Coors boycott, as well - but *CALL SOON* on
1-800-642-6116.  Tell them you've heard of a potential boycott,
and encourage them to issue a national public statement against
measure 2.

The spokesman also advised me that, if a boycott is pursued, to
make sure we include Anhauser Busch, since they have a large
brewery in Ft. Collins, Colorado.  I'll be contacting Anhauser
Busch for a statement on Monday.  You can also watch here
for an official statement from Coors.

If we organize this well, a boycott against the state could generate
a lot of press, and a lot of pressure on the fundies.  They're very
organized and passionate - let's outdo 'em!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
             John P. Stine  (stine@stars.reston.unisys.com)

   The opinions expressed here certainly don't represent those of my
   employer...but I'm working on it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: 1992 U.S. presidential election results
Date: 6 Nov 92 06:33:13 GMT
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <lfj7rgINNeuc@news.bbn.com> rrizzo@BBN.COM (Ron Rizzo) writes:
>Electoral Vote
>H. Ross Perot, Tycoon                     0      0 states

Did Perot get 1 vote out of Maine? They can split their electoral vote..

>Lenora Fulani, New Alliance (a cult)       211,742       0%

yep, although you'll find a lot of queers in the NAP membership. They
are promising all the right things for us, but look like they're not a
good place to put your energy.

>Bo Gritz                                    97,601       0%

survivalist, no?

>John Hagelin, Natural Law (fascist?)        44,521       0%

Maharishi. Cult.

>Lyndon Larouche, Anti-Semitic               25,688       0%

anti-gay, anti-PWA, absofuckinglutely insane. In jail for fraud. Stay
clear of the Schiller institute, while you're at it - they're an arm
of the Larouchies.

Interesting note - the pundits talk about how Perot's infomercials are
a new sort of political campaign. Bullshit. Larouche was buying 30
minute primetime infomercials in 1988, on major networks.  He didn't
get very far with them, but he was doing it.

ObMotss - wasn't Joan Jett Blakk running for president?
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                   There is absolutely no other possibility
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Skin-heads
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:20:08 GMT

> hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu writes:
>
>While I would hardly deny the attraction of the skinhead look for me,
>I don't associate it with Nazis (unless said shaved heads have big
>swastikas tattooed across them etc). The skinhead look originated
>in British working-class fashion of the '60s...

I would have said it came on the scene, complete with
"aggro" and "bovver boys rule OK", in the early '70s.
*Everyone* was pretty hairy (and bead-bedizened) in
the late '60s...
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: cjlee@netcom.com (Caroline Jean Lee)
Subject: Re: Re: Lesbianville on 20/20
Keywords: soc.lesbian, soc.muffdiver, soc.dykes, soc.pimply.teenaged.boys
Organization: MotssDykes
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 11:40:46 GMT

Perhaps instead of creating a separate group, we could request that
the men in this group (no lack of those!), in particular the regular
postrs, make more of an effort to post about issues/news relevant to
lbo  women and take more of an interest in those threads.  
After all, remedying the present inequity in threads should be a
concern/responsibility of our male posters as well.

If there IS a group formed for lg women, may I suggest the name
soc.muffdiver?

Caroline
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:23:04 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.193724.22309@tc.cornell.edu> shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
>When
>you consider that 30% of teen suicides are related to
>sexual identity crises perhaps you can start to understand
>the effect that rampant anti-gay hostility has.

I went to the bookstore, here at Maryland, to check a Psychology textbook.
On it, the athour said that it was not clear if the relation of Gay man 
with their parents was different because they were Gay, or if they were
Gay because the relationship with their parents was different.
On this case of suicides, can you prove that they commit suicide because
of "rampant anti-gay hostility" and not because of the same causes that
made them homosexuals?

Just asking.

>--
>           Hate is not a family value.  Boycott Colorado
>
>       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu

Do you think that making a boycott against those who voted No on #2 is
a good family value?

AAP

Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
From: ckirby@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Charles Kirby)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 17:04:24 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.003420.10370@ncar.ucar.edu> gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:
>
>ck> #2 fosters an attitude of intolerance toward gay people, which translates
>    in the minds of some extremists into: "it's okay to bash gay people."
>
>  Then that's the extremists' problem, isn't it? That's like saying that the
>  selling of alcohol makes drunk driving OK. The problem is with the people
>  who drink and drive, not those who sell alcohol.
>

No, it isn't.  You as a representative of the dominant white heterosexual
male majority are responsible for the effects that this type of legislation
has.  Your blathering on about this issue has all been about absolving
yourself of any responsibility for the effects of your narrow-minded
world view.  Why don't you just admit that you really don't give a damn
what happens to anybody but yourself and crawl back under your comfy little
rock.

>gs> I wouldn't take the words of a deeply disturbed individual as being objec-

>    tive. 
>
>ck> Good advice.  From your posting I find you to be a cold, uncaring, distur-
>    bed individual and will not take your words as being objective
>
>  Amazing how much someone can read into one post, eh? Care to make any more
>  irrelevant comments, or can we address the issues at hand?

My comments are perfectly relevant since they were made solely with the 
purpose of my venting my anger at what you represent, you ignorant tick.


>ck> People who are in this situation deserve compassion, a shoulder to lean
>    on, an ear to listen to them, not condescending, holier-than-thou spewings
>    about "liking yourself."  Fuck off.
>
>  How nice. Your whole argument just went into the toilet. Don't be critical
>  of me for being self-reliant. It's really sad that our society has so per-
>  verted things that those who can't live without being told that they're OK
>  and that they're loved are considered saints, whereas those who can take
>  all the abuse others heap upon them and spit it right back are told "Fuck
>  off". How nice.

In the first place, who said anything about him being a saint?  He was a
person who needed help, and all he found was that he was in a world 
surrounded by a lot of pricks like you who could give a damn  about his
problems.  

In the second place, don't flatter yourself imagining that I am trying
to "argue" anything with you.  You just keep flapping that big mouth
of yours, exhibiting your pin-sized brain, and in the mood I'm in
I am grateful for the opportunity to flame.  I leave it to others not
as jaded as I am, who still believe that you might have one brain cell
in your head not devoted to maintaining your particular reality, to
try and convince you that yes, indeed you are an ignorant, callous prick.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: OCA launches _new_ petition drive
Organization: insert anything here
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:06:54 GMT

mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser) writes:
>In <Bwyp7F.ALI@agora.rain.com> bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:

>[ ... more scary shit the OCA's pulling on Oregon ... ]
>Let me make sure I understand -- since the OCA couldn't change the state
>Constitution, they're just going to ignore the Federal Constitution?

>Sad.  Very sad.

	I think it's FANTASTIC!

	I think we should all support it (not publically) 
and encourage them.

	Putting this on the ballot I think would be their death
knell.  Then we'd be rid of them for good...

BBC/Galileo-bear
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: News From the Front -- Boulder
Keywords: fund/consciousness raising
Date: 10 Nov 92 01:01:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Nov10.010119.25192
Organization: insert anything here

sds@cs.utexas.edu (Sara Strandtman) writes:
misek@solbourne.com (Steve Misek) writes:

>>It was rumoured that the campus organization has designed a T-shirt that has
>>	"Don't shoot, I'm actually a Black Bear"
>>printed over a large pink triangle (In reference to the black bear protection
>>ordinance which overwhelmingly passed in Tuesday's election #10)...  Now that
>>black bears have more rights than we do...

>Regarding the T-shirt--it struck me as a great
>way to raise funds, and perhaps some consciousness, if such a T-shirt
>(that also included brief text explaining its meaning, i.e. bear protection,
>gay/bisexual discrimination) were marketed across the country.  I remember the
>soc.motss T-shirt from years ago selling well just within this group.

	Well, I sold em cheap, but I'd pay $15 for this shirt!
Not only would it help raise funds but it would serve as a personal
reminder that we can't let our guard down.

	If this rumour isn't true, someone SHOULD do it!  I'd
spread the word as much as possible and try to send the fundraiser
a big fat check!

	If it IS true, please post the info and I'll try to raise 
awareness here and send them a big fat check!

	WHOever makes this shirt- make sure you get em in Child
sizes too, esp. size 4!  (Waldeaux weants to be an activist!)

Hugz, BBC
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Colorado newsfeed wanted
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 00:33:51 GMT


I asked our news administrator whether he has access to the
co hierarchy so we can read co.politics.amend2.info to keep
up with local items there.  We have no access to the
colorado groups through our regular feeds, so we would be
interested if someone who does have this hierarchy would be
able to provide us a feed.

Contact Don Thomson (no 'p', note), thomson@macc.wisc.edu.

Thanks.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
<>  <>  <> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <>  <>  <>
From: rlove@fog.cs.odu.edu (Rebecca Love)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Colorado's Amendment 2
Date: 5 Nov 92 22:21:13 GMT
Organization: Old Dominion University, Norfolk, Va


  Ok, now that this thing passed, could someone send me the complete text
of the Amendment that passed?  Please e-mail it to me as I can't seem
to keep up with the traffic on this newsgroup.

Thanks,

Becky
rlove@cs.odu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: Pat Robertson, Buchanan, Helms, VOTE!!!
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 14:04:52 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan):
>>does anyone else hate this ["P" Robertson] dude as much as i do?
> 
> Gee, I don't know, I think he's kind of cute.

no, doll, i was referring to Larry King.  i think he's
a spineless weasel.
-- 
Queer Without A Cause!
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Inconsistency re CO boycott
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:34:37 GMT

> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>                                 ...I care where people put
>their money, and I saw people having a great time skiing
>down the mountain last night, under what looked to me like
>wonderful conditions.  But I wish they weren't doing it in
>Colorado, not now, not yet.  I'm sure lots of people would
>disagree, but I see those skiers as (witting or unwitting)
>co-conspirators in my oppression.

And undoubtedly some 10% of them are "oh, I'm not political"
gay men and lesbians. :-(
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: Are there any gay Republicans?
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 00:10:35 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <BxBHuL.8nz@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu
(Rockville) wrote:
> 

> Melon, you've got to be kidding.  I'm not sure whom I pity more: you for   
> your twisted little mind, or us for having something in common with you.

Being twisted of mind, I am not certain about this, but I do believe
'whom' is the wrong word, as it does not follow any preposition (the
likes of 'to' or 'for')  If you have your heart set on using 'whom', 
then perhaps you should, in the future, scribble:  

  I'm not sure for *whom* I have more pity.

(as in, _For *whom* the Bell Tolls_)

Otherwise,

  I'm not sure *who* I pity more.

But then again, I shall be the first to admit I may be wrong.  I shall
also be the first to admit that I am using a technique overly tried here
on soc.motss:  the irrelevant grammatical flame.

But I'm twisted.  And *I* have a double standard...

And as to *whom* deserves the greater pity, well - I'm not selfish.
You can have, darling.  While the kindess of strangers isn't necessary
if they have a great ass (Jason Priestley), they can *always* stuff
their pity into whichever body open brings them the most pleasure.

*X*
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Mouse Balls
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 05:52:29 GMT

In article <45552@ogicse.ogi.edu> markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) writes:
>Sorry, Steve, but the first time I actualy got a copy of said memo in my
>hands (which was long after I heard of it) was in 1983 or 84.  One of my
>coworkers who is a veteran of the early days of Xerox Parc claims that
>it originated there as a slam on big blue who was trying to make gobs
>of money on yet another Xerox invention (yes, Parc did invent the mouse).

Sorry, Mark, I stand corrected.  However, Doug Engelhart of SRI invented
the mouse, so _THERE_! :-)

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: cbe@unlinfo.unl.edu (cbe)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Colorado Cesspool
Date: 6 Nov 1992 23:04:13 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: unlinfo.unl.edu

wanek@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Wanek) writes:

>In soc.motss, cbe@unlinfo.unl.edu (cbe) writes:

>> >defeat Prop 2.  I don't think I'll be visiting Colorado any time soon.
>> 
>> withdrawing from their fund.  I have further written to the Aspen Music 
>> Festival explaining why I shall not be attending this year nor 
>> contributing to their fund.  Further, the purchase of some electronic 
>> equipment from Hewlett-Packard will be cancelled.  Their sales 
>> representative will be certainly told the reason.  I've always 

>I would like to point out that HP includes sexual orientation in it's 
>non-discrimination policy, which is not affected by Amendment 2.
>So buy HP.


>> preferred the Tetons anyway.
>> 
Sorry!  In for a penny, in for a pound.  The economic grief must be 
visited on all.  If HP wants to do business in homophobic KKKolorado, 
then it is de facto supporting that benighted state's political 
agenda.  If it truly believes in non-discrimination, then I suggest 
that it tell its employees, a fair number of whom probably supported 
the amendment, that it is closing its operations and moving to a 
jurisdiction where bigotry is not legalized.  It may appear that this 
is an unreasonable request for a company with several plants in 
KKKolorado, but I can envisage few things which would make a greater 
impact on the mountain air bigots than to have major corporations 
announce that they are leaving the state.  Further, this would send a 
clear message to other states where such a referendum may be in the 
offing.  HP should announce that it will move its plants to those 
states that have enacted laws that universally ban discrimination.  If
all of the corporations with non-discrimination policies followed 
through in this fashion, I suspect the lesson would be a powerful one.


Colburn Eigen                                       H|u> = E|u>
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2 email action campaign
Date: 8 Nov 92 00:46:54 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Nov8.000950.11916@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu
(Nelson Minar) writes:

>(this was apparantly originally posted to the Sappho mailing list, but
>it just came across the pdx-motss list. I figured it should be here,
>too. There's a mailing list for CO-2 now.)

Thanks, hon.  The mailing lists may be an easier answer for
us here than getting a feed for the co.  newsgroups, though
it would be nice to get a feed if we could, in terms of
efficiency.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
<>  <>  <> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <>  <>  <>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat)
Subject: Don't Stop:  The Movie!  (Re: Don't Stop! ...)
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:06:47 GMT

Al Gore, Jr. as		Lindsey Buckingham
Tipper Gore as		Christine McVie
Hilary Clinton as	Stevie Nicks

             -and starring-

Bill Clinton as 	Mick Fleetwood

Coming to a marriage counselor near you!
Newsgroups: soc.motss