HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: contributions
Date: 31 Dec 92 19:49:13 GMT
Organization: CompuData Inc.

djm@TRENT.ATT.COM (Donald J. Magee) writes:

>When you say people do you mean only adults, or adults and children?
>Did the survey take into account private donations (not at Mass) or
>special drives?  Just curious.

There was an immediate challenge to the figures by the finance person of the 
diocese of seattle to the numbers. They mentioned that special donations were 
not in the stats.

That is correct.  We are speaking here of ordinary collections via the weekly
envelope contribution system in use by the typical Catholic parish. The stats 
would become meaningless if a special bequest that donated a deceased person's 
estate to the parish. In most dioceses this money goes straight into diocesan 
coffers anyway.

As far as my numbers go, we are talking the typical family donation. A small 
number of families request two envelopes, one for husband and one for the
wife. There might be 10 or 20 such families in a typical parish. 

Protestants typically have more of a member type donation system. Catholics 
are still rooted around the family as the central unit of giving. Some 
parishes who have there own envelope generation system (they print their own 
via computer) have complete control over who gets what when but that is not 
the rule of the game. Normally there are those who are on the active list and 
those who are not.  The NOTs might get a special holy day mailing but nothing
else.

Fred
-- 
W. Fred Rump 	office:	   fred@COMPU.COM     'mans feet have grown/so big 
26 Warren St.   home: fred@icdi10.compu.com  that he/forgets his littleness'
Beverly, NJ. 08010                          		Don Marquis 
609-386-6846    bang:uunet!cdin-1!icdi10!fr
From: elendil@seashell.mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: OR
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 09:29:58 CST
Organization: Seashell Software

"Gordon C. Zaft" <zaft@CARITAS.COTDAZR.ORG> writes:

> On Dec 21,  4:51pm, "Edward J. Branley" wrote:
> } Subject: Re: Operation Rescue
> } Well, you can always build a kill file.  I stand by my statement.  Randall
> } Terry and Operation Rescue are pursuing a criminal path to stop what they f
> } to be a crime.  This is a case where two wrongs do not make a right.
> }-- End of excerpt from "Edward J. Branley"
>
>         Out of curiosity, would you say the same about MLK?  After all,
> he did things that were illegal, did he not?  He spent time in jail.
> Yet he did what he did out of a conviction that the laws were
> unjust.
>
>
> --
> * Gordon Zaft     Argus Consulting  4500 E. Sunrise #N-6, Tucson, AZ 85718
> * zaft@caritas.cotdazr.org | noao.edu!coyote!caritas!zaft
>                  Semper fidelis Christi et Vicarii sui.

MLK protested and committed acts of civil disobedience, but he did not try to
close down businesses using tactics that protection rackets use.  The tactic of
the civil rights movement was the economic boycott.  If the bus line was
discriminatory, they didn't ride the bus.  If the lunch counter was segregated,
they didn't eat there.  That's not the same as using violence to close down the
lunch counter.

Gordon, if OR weren't turning more and more violent, I wouldn't even say these
things about Terry.  Even MLK said that sort of thing about the Black Panthers.
I'm really concerned that the publicity that OR gives the entire pro-life
movement will merely bring more and more people in the middle, undecided, or on
the fence into the abortion rights column.

Just one more thought:  please remember that I'm not pro-abortion or
pro-abortion rights.  I disagree strongly on the tactics that should be used to
prevent abortions in this country, but I am in complete agreement with all of
the pro-life movement on the morality of abortion.

Anyway, Merry Christmas to you and your family.



|Edward J. Branley         elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us|
|Seashell Software, Metairie, LA            +1-504-455-5087|
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Tue, 29 Dec 1992 14:33:08 -0500
From:         mayo@CS.UTK.EDU
Subject:      "One Bread, One Body", Dec. 31

                    Thursday, December 31, 1992
                          Saint Sylvester

I John 2:18-21               Psalm 96             John 1:1-18

                           FINISHING UP

"Children, it is the final hour." --I John 2:18

On this last day of the secular year, we can tie up the loose ends of our
year and be able to say what Jesus said moments before His death: "It is
finished" (Jn 19:30).  The Lord promised He would bring to completion every
good work which He has begun (Phil 1:6).  Consequently, there's no need for
us to be half-done, half-repentant, half-healed, or half-reconciled.  We
don't even have to be almost done.  We can be finished.  We don't have to
carry a backlog of things into the new year.  A new year in which we're
trying to fulfill old responsibilities is not much of a new year.  Therefore,
we should repent of every sin, forgive all who have hurt us, share our faith
with all those the Lord has put into our lives, obey every call, and do
every work.

Some of you may have more than a couple of things left to do.  Some may even
have a backlog of several years.  There seems to be no way you'll ever catch
up.  Cast all your cares on Jesus (I Pt 5:7).  He cares for you and will do
the impossible.  He will be your Lord, bring order into your life, and give
you a truly new year.


Prayer:  Jesus, save me from being overwhelmed by the demands of life and by
         confusion.

Promise: "In the beginning was the Word; the Word was in God's presence, and
          the Word was God." --Jn 1:1

Praise:  John gave his life to Jesus on New Year's Eve.
-----
From "One Bread, One Body", reproduced with permission.
Nihil Obstat: Rev. Edward J. Gratsch
Imprimatur:  +Most Rev. James H. Garland, V.G.
              Archdiocese of Cincinnati, August 17, 1992.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: mjsmith@cac.washington.edu (Martha Smith )
Subject: Re: Questions
Organization: UW Computing
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:35:27 GMT

In article <Bzo2ux.560@news.iastate.edu>, sister@iastate.edu (Chad M Bormann) writes:
|> I was wondering what pentecoste and ash wednesday were for,  can anyone
|> enlighten me here? 
|> 
|> 
|> -- 
|> A Kiss from my lips
|> could melt your heart,
|> or turn it to stone.
|>     --SISTER
FOR? - like the rest of the liturgical calendar they are FOR re-enacting the history of salvation, for the education/spiritual growth of the believers

Pentecost commerates the gift of the Holy Spirit after Christ's ascension

Ash Wednesday marks the beginning of the pentitential season of lent
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Tue, 29 Dec 1992 08:41:06 EST
From:         "Donald J. Magee" <djm@TRENT.ATT.COM>
Subject:      Re: contributions
              Dec 28, 92 7:07 pm

>
> The results of a first survey of parish data were just announced. Data is from
> churches that have computers and pretty much back up what I've posted here
> previously. I said 20% of the people give 80% of the donations dollar wise.
> The actual survey showed that 19% gave 75%. It also indicates that the vast
> majority of Catholics give around $40 per year to their church. Less than a
> dollar per week. Presumably this is from their Christmas or Easter donation.
>


When you say people do you mean only adults, or adults and children?
Did the survey take into account private donations (not at Mass) or
special drives?  Just curious.

-Don Magee

trent!djm@jolt.att.com
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: jocallag@artin.helios.nd.edu (john ocallaghan)
Subject: Re:      Walker Percy
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 03:18:47 GMT

In article <CATHOLIC%93010321051806@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU> esler@apollo.hp.com writes:
>Ken,
>
>I know of two books about Walker Percy:
>
>        "PILGRIM IN THE RUINS: A Life of Walker Percy"
>        Jay Tolson.
>        Available from the Thomas More Book Club in Chicago.
>
>
>        "Walker Percy and the postmodern world"
>        Mary K. Sweeny.
>        Loyola University Press. (800)621-1008.
>
In the near future there is supposed to be another historical biography
of Percy written by Patrick Samway, S.J. Percy's literary executor and editor
of "Sign-posts In A Strange Land", the recent collection of miscellaneous
essays by Percy.
You should be able to find at least one copy of "Pilgrim In the Ruins" in
most book stores including the chains like Waldense, etc.

A very interesting book is "Conversations with Walker Percy".  It is a collection of interviews with him spanning about twenty five years.  It is published by 
University Press of Mississippi, and is part of the "Literary Conversation
Series."
Peace, and Happy New Year
John


Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"CATHOLIC@AMERICAN.EDU"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 10:00:54 -0500
From:         URSIC@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM
Subject:      Re: Operation Rescue

Richard A Chonak <norris@ATHENA.MIT.EDU> writes:
|> On Dec 6,  7:22am, "Edward J. Branley" wrote:
|> } Hmmm...shame that other OR rescues in this country don't follow
|> }'principles of non-violent action.'

>Sometimes the abortion-mill staff fabricate charges of violence in order to
>make propaganda against OR.

Richard, are you denying that members of OR have ever done any violent
actions in their rescues or are you just making "misleading" statements in
order to cloud the issue, something you seem to condemn abortion mill staff
for doing below.

>Abortion mill employees also regularly lie about the effectiveness of rescues:
>even when no-one is seen entering the building but staff and police, they will
>claim that "all the procedures scheduled for the day" were performed.

I don't know as I would call this a "lie" as much as a "misleading" statement.
If procedures were rescheduled, then they were no longer scheduled for that
day, if they were performed at some other clinic, then they were still
performed and so on and so on.

>Basically, *any* statement made by abortion mill staff after a rescue should be
>considered as probably false.

I would consider this statement as "misleading".
...and maybe some of you would consider me the "expert" at "misleading"
statements:-) -J.J.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)
Subject: Re:      An electronic Christmas card
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:18:35 GMT

In article <9212220855.AA43397@chaos.intercon.com> Amanda Walker <amanda@INTERCON.COM> writes:
>+ Sequentia sancti Evangelii secundum Lucam:

[ beautiful Latin text from the Gospel of Luke of the angels
announcing to the shepherds the birth of Christ ]

   Thanks, Amanda.  That brings back memories of watching on TV last
year's Christmas Mass from St. Peter's Basilica.  This text was sung
(in chant) as the Gospel reading by the deacon as Pope John Paul
looked on.  Very beautiful liturgy.

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps, Indiana University
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Fri, 25 Dec 1992 08:01:36 -0500
From:         mayo@CS.UTK.EDU
Subject:      "One Bread, One Body", Dec. 28

                    Monday, December 28, 1992
                     Holy Innocents, Martyrs

I John 1:5-2:2              Psalm 124           Matthew 2:13-18

                  STOP THE ABORTION OF CHRISTMAS

"He ordered the massacre of all the boys two years old and under in
 Bethlehem." --Matthew 2:16

Christmas is the celebration of life.  We celebrate the birthday of Jesus,
God-made-man.  However, the Christmases of the past twenty years have been
the deadliest in history because of the abortion of millions of babies.

To stop this child-killing and put life back into Christmas, we must:

    1. obey every command of God, even if He tells us to get up in the
           middle of the night and go to Egypt (Mt 2:13-14).
    2. love the modern Herods into God's kingdom by forgiving them, praying
           and suffering for them, and sharing the love of Jesus with them
    3. repent of apathy and lack of faith.  "If we acknowledge our sins, He
           Who is just can be trusted to forgive our sins and cleanse us
           from every wrong (I Jn 1:9).
    4. realize that our battle is not against human beings but against the
           devil (Eph 6:12).  By prayer and fasting we can drive out the
           demon of abortion (see Mt 17:21).
    5. fix our eyes on Jesus (Heb 12:2).  He can raise aborted babies from
           the dead, forgive those who killed them, and save us all from
           death and damnation.  Jesus is the Lord of life.


Prayer:  Baby Jesus, may Christmas, and children, not be aborted but restored.

Promise: Jesus "is an Offering for our sins, and not for our sins only, but
         for those of the whole world." --Jn 2:2

Praise:  The Holy Innocents will be used by the Lord to stop abortion.

        (For more teaching on this subject, order our pamphlet,
        "How to Stop Abortion") from:

                Presentation Ministries
                3230 McHenry
                Cincinnati, Ohio 45211
-----
From "One Bread, One Body", reproduced with permission.
Nihil Obstat: Rev. Edward J. Gratsch
Imprimatur:  +Most Rev. James H. Garland, V.G.
              Archdiocese of Cincinnati, August 17, 1992.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: mhunt@world.std.com (Michael J Hunt)
Subject: Re: A Christmas Miracle? :)
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 03:04:20 GMT

Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: A Christmas Miracle? :)


Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: A Christmas Miracle? :)


Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:

>I don't know if it qualifies as a Christmas miracle, but reality has
>intruded onto the Op.Ed. page of the New York Times.  In the issue

Exactly my reaction when I read this morning's TIMES (12/26/92). Nothing
could be more a miracle than the appearance of these two articles in the
paper of record <g>. That's what I beheld with the eyes of faith. But with
eyes jaded by many, many years of the TIMES, I also note that these two
articles appeared in the Saturday edition which is the least widely read
of the week -- and besides on the day after Christmas when all good
Christians are at the local mall exchanging yesterday's gifts. But a
miracle nonetheless.



-- 
          ________________________________________________________

Michael J. Hunt                                MHunt@world.std.com
Catholic Center at Tufts                       < internet > 
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Sun, 3 Jan 1993 20:53:59 -0500
Reply-To:     esler@apollo.hp.com
From:         esler@APOLLO.HP.COM
Subject:      Walker Percy

Ken,

I know of two books about Walker Percy:

        "PILGRIM IN THE RUINS: A Life of Walker Percy"
        Jay Tolson.
        Available from the Thomas More Book Club in Chicago.


        "Walker Percy and the postmodern world"
        Mary K. Sweeny.
        Loyola University Press. (800)621-1008.

I haven't read either of these, but they're on my list...

--
Kevin Esler //hewlett-packard/cso/stg/std/clo/mll (MA Language Lab)
esler@apollo.hp.com   (508) 436-5979
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 09:24:00 EST
From:         "Alfred S. Chavez" <achavez@UMSA.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Financing education (was Queens School Board

>I don't know exactly what you mean by factors that "render them
disfunctional".


Joel,
I certainly did not mean poor.  Perhaps I should have stopped at "hard cases."
I came from a family of eight that attended parochial schools, and there
were times when mom had to do laundry for the sisters to pay our tuition. My
own experience was that mountains were moved to allow poorer pupils to
attend.  Even currently, some very good friends have gone through a
prolonged period of minimal employment and kept their kids in the
local parochial school. I know that somehow they were accomodated.
Merry & Blessed Christmas!
Fred
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Fri, 1 Jan 1993 10:42:08 EST
From:         DICK HAROLD <ITNEWS@INDYCMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: contributions

On Thu, 31 Dec 1992 20:16:36 GMT Fred Rump from home said:
>
>>When we left church I asked Ben about why he put something in the basket.
>>He said he remembered one day when his school room was cold and how all
>>the students had to put on their coats.  He said he wanted to help those
>>children so they could have heat in school. (I had put in my usual visitors
>>couple of bucks.)
>
>Give your son a pat on the back from the people on the net. He must be a
>beautiful boy. My son has always been much more selfish and figured dad would
>take care of it.
>
>Fred

Fred and all...

Ben surprised me with his action and has since surprised me several times.
He attends public school in order to take advantage of the AT program.  He
is very bright but gets into trouble a great deal.  He is looking for
attention and doesn't seem to be able to just be another kid in the bunch.
Ben has two brothers and two sisters who all went to Cathoilc school.  Ben
had not shown any signs of giving to others (at least dad did not see it)
until the above happened.

Since then I have seen other signs.  He attended special classes and has
become an alter boy in spite of the fact that few, if any, other children
not attending the Catholic school have been permitted to do so.  He looks
forward to the duty and frequently drops in to see if he can help out on
the days he is not assigned.

Housed in this body of a trouble making boy may be a priest of tomorrow.
How blessed we would be if that happens.

|======================================================================|
|  DICK HAROLD    *   ITNEWS@INDYCMS.BITNET  *   IUPUI INDIANAPOLIS    |
|                *  ITNEWS@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU  *                        |
| - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -|
|        Always check your sources agian, and again, and again...      |
|======================================================================|
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Saturday, 26 Dec 1992 11:41:04 EST
From: Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: Commandments of the Church and mixed marriages

I think that list of the Commandments of the Church was just a summary.
It did not intend to give all the exceptions.  For a Catholic to marry
a non-Catholic does, or at least did, require a dispensation from the
local ordinary.  They may have been given rather routinely, but they
still were required.  Since the list was headed The Commandments of
the Church, and since the Church has the authority and power to modify
any rule it makes, either by a general change or by dispensations in
specific instances, the possibility of dispensations may have been
thought to be implicitly stated in the heading.
-------
Marty Helgesen
Bitnet: mnhcc@cunyvm   Internet: mnhcc@cunyvm.cuny.edu

"Experience beats in vain upon a congenital progressive."
        --  C. S. Lewis
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: kyrsten@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Kyrsten Swazey)
Subject: Re: R-movies in parochial school?
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 20:38:41 GMT

stevek@cco.caltech.edu (Steven P. Krekeler) writes:
>Am I living in times past, or is this a legitimate complaint?  I would
>appreciate it if someone could tell me how to find the U.S. Catholic
>Conference rating of this movie.  I would like to present an informed
>argument to the class teacher and/or school principal.  Both,
>incidentally, are members of a religious order.

>-- 
>- stevek@alumni.caltech.ed

Way back when I attended parochial school, I *always* had to have
written proof of my parents' consent for any movie more graphic than PG.
This included PG-13 movies.  It seems to me that there is no good reason
to play any graphic movies in the classroom, regardless of parents'
consent.
BTW, was this the new version of The Lord of the Flies, or the older,
black-and-white version?

kyrsten@eos.arc.nasa.gov 
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: zerucha@shell.portal.com (Thomas E Zerucha)
Subject: Re: Vatican II and Eng Lit
Keywords: Vatican II
Organization: Portal Communications Company -- 408/973-9111 (voice) 408/973-8091 (data)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 18:56:04 GMT

>The only Catholic author... Andrew Greely.

William F. Buckley writes novels and is catholic.  I listened to the audio
version of "Right Reason" and he had some comments on the media, mainly films.

---
zerucha@shell.portal.com - main email address
zerucha@fim001.ets.ford.com - work address
Thomas Zerucha / 24075 Lee Baker / Southfield MI 48075 - hardcopy
(313)594-4941 - work phone
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU