HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: Books, was Re: No-Mind
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:07:43 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.194057.32265@europa.asd.contel.com> groome@ncc1701d.lab writes:
>
>I have really enjoyed Dan Millman's (sp?) books.  I have only read the first 
>two, _The Way of the Peaceful Warrior_ and _The Warrior Athlete_. 

	I read WPW.  The essential messages were good, but nothing I did not 
	already know, more or less.  The narrative was not erribly believable
	with this Socrates character and the bint he hard a woody for that
	ran circles around him.  Then to make things worse, I see at the end 
	of the book a whole series of PW related products like tapes and videos
	and (I think) classes or something.  This set off my SCAM alarm right
	away.  I remember being terribly disappointed not being able to believe
	that this guy was on the level, but his marketing ploy just stank to
	high heaven.

	Another point that makes it virtually impossible to take his work as
	original and his own is the fact that it reads so much like Castaneda's
	writings; almost plagiaristically so.  The principles set forth in
	the works of each author are essentially indistinguishable, one from
	the other.  The main difference is that Castaneda's work is a super-set
	of Millman's and is, IMNSHO, better and more completely formulated
	and presented.

	All in all, the book was worth reading.  The ideas are basically good
	IMO, but I find it almost impossible to believe that this is a true
	autobiographical account or that his ideas were not cannibalized from 
	other sources.  But who knows, maybe it is and maybe they are.  The
	point is irrelevant when speaking to the merits of the ideas per se.

	Personally, I still prefer Castaneda's work.  Lots of good trips!

	-Andy V.

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: comptec92024@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: Beating S*** out of Celts (long)
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 09:34:15 GMT

In article <1993Jan14.220014.28300@massey.ac.nz>, M.J.Wright@massey.ac.nz (M.J. Wright) writes:
> 
> Sorry to rain on your parade of the mightly Celts, but.......
> 
> bull@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au writes:
> 
>> Greenoch is a Celtic martial art that supposedly dates
>> back to the time of the Roman Empire. When the Romans invaded Britain,
>> they pretty well overran the southern 2/3's without too much trouble.
>> They were stopped by the Celts though, who lived in the areas we now
>> know of as Scotland and Ireland (and a few spots on Britains west coast).
(stuff removed) 
> I agree that western martial arts traditions are under-rated, but I don't
> think you need to look that far to find them.  The ancient Greeks recall
> great wrestling matches won by techniques such as a fatal spear hand strike
> to the armpit.  The use of the rapier was incredibly developed, with the 
> average exponent practising 2-3 hours a day.  The Knights Templar were noted 
> for their skill and could not retreat unless outnumbered more than two to one.
> And the Romans didn't rule for 1000 (west) + 1000 (east) years by
> being slouches.
===============================================================================
Your right, the Romans beat the Celtic peoples of europe. I don't think
that you can argue that it was becouse the Romans were better Martial Artists
then the Celtics, you do not have any information Roman period Celtic martial
arts. You can argue that the Romans were better soldiers and that is why they
won. I guess that I should say that I do make a difference military arts and
martial arts. Military arts being the skills that lead to winning wars while
martial arts being the skills of personnal combat.

Even from a military point of view the celts were nothing to sneeze at. In
279 BC Celtic tribes pillaged Thrace and Macedonia killing the heir of Alexander
the Great, the king of Macedonia. This group of Celtics later beat the Greeks
at a battle in the pass of Thermopylae, the same place where the Greeks had
defeated the Persians. In 390 BC Celtic tribes extracted tribute from Rome
herself. Note that Caesar himself used Gallic (celtic) cavalry, in the conquest
of Gaul. So I don't think that you can make any argument if Celtic people were
or were not good martial artists. You can only say that that they were beaten
by the Romans then later used by the same Romans.

Mackenzie
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: wag5@quads.uchicago.edu (john peter wagner)
Subject: Re: Evil Black Belts (Re: Fighting against animals?)
Reply-To: wag5@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 22:42:40 GMT

In article <C1HAtF.A44@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> shulick@cineret.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
>
>We need to sick a Greenoch master on that idiot. :)  But seriously, how
>could the military hire such goons to teach?
>
>-- 
	What branch was it?
	I seem to recall the Marines getting into severe trouble
when, on a training exercise, a number of trainees were killed
by the training, leading to an overhaul in the way the M.C. functions,
resulting in the current policy that a trainermay not touch
the trainee. Thus, one would not be able to have an officer
practice violent instruction and be accepted as a member of the
Corps.  I realize that individuals will do whatever pleases them,
however, and so there will be isolatd stories of abuse.
	Training by violent method can be effective but it
can also be counterproductive in the sense that the trainee
can be 'turned-off' to the subject, by associating it with
violence and hectic authority.  This brings up some interesting
topics for psychological discussion, but I don't feel like 
pursuing it.

			John
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Fighting against animals?
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:22:14 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1993Jan26.161643.24131@midway.uchicago.edu> wag5@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>But these dogs will try to bite chunks out of you. Don't let them

	:-)	:-)	:-)	:-)	:-)	:-)	:-)	:-)
From: ps1o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Philip John Stroffolino)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Brandon Lee Movies
Date: 21 Jan 93 03:38:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.cfLeRQy00iUyE1A1gm
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


Other than "Rapid Fire," I saw Brandon Lee in a made for TV movie a long
time ago, "Kung Fu, the Movie."  Brandon played Caine's (David
Carradine) son he never knew he had.  The movie took place in Chinatown,
San Fransisco, and involved an evil Chinese hypnotist (no joke!) who
sicced Brandon on Caine.  This movie, I believe, was Brandon Lee's
acting debut, as there was a big deal made about it and him on various
entertainment/talk shows at the time.

- Phil -
From: stave@apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: WANTED: Women's self-defense success stories!
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:33:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: apollo.C1GwKF.1J1
Reply-To: stave@apollo.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA

In article <1993Jan25.200121.8364@cbfsb.cb.att.com>,
osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
|> 	Nope.  Goetz did NOT kill anyone.  He shot four men that were
|> 	threatening him with a screwdriver.  If that is not reason to 
|> 	feel threatened, then pray tell, what is?
[snip]
|> 	For the last time, Goetz did not kill his targets... unfortunately.

Sorry, I got my facts wrong. My point was that, while I'm not a
lawyer, I think that feeling threatened is a legally acceptable
reason to rough someone up. (But, as Mr Goetz did, you have to
prove that you had reason to feel threatened)

Joel Stave
stave@apollo.hp.com
From: nahilgendorf@honors.uoregon.edu (Nathan Hilgendorf)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,rec.arts.movies,alt.cult-movies
Subject: Re: `Kung fu' movies vs. `Wu xia' movies (was Re: Brandon Lee Movies)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:43:15 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon Honors College
NNTP-Posting-Host: honors-lab4.uoregon.edu

In article <1k5fagINNj6p@cascade.cs.ubc.ca> upham@cs.ubc.ca (Derek Upham) writes:

>jangi@hilbert.coe.northeastern.edu (Shrirang Jangi) writes:
>>In article <nahilgendorf.51@honors.uoregon.edu> nahilgendorf@honors.uoregon.edu (Nathan Hilgendorf) writes:

>>>True, Hong Kong does make the best martial arts movies. I saw Swordsman II a 
>>>while ago and thought it was actually pretty poorly done, which surprised 
>>>me, since Once Upon a Time in China I and II were awesome. Oh well...

>>I agree that neither Swordsman I or II is as good as Wong Fei Hong, but I 
>>think that the floating rotating sword of Jet Lee and the concept of "sword
>>chi" in Swordsman II are visually stunning. BTW, Swordsman III is already out.

>These are sort of unfair comparisons.  "Swordsman" 1 and 2 aren't
>`kung fu' movies, they're `wu xia' movies (action fantasy, like "A
>Chinese Ghost Story", and "Zu, Warriors of the Mystic Mountain").  If
>you go looking for martial arts, you're going to be disappointed---
>the writers and directors don't devote nearly as much energy to them
>as `kung fu' writers and directors do.  (Actually, "Once Upon a Time
>in China" is only half `kung fu'; the other half is historical drama.)

Thanks for pointing that out. I was trying to figure out how to say it the 
right way, but you beat me to it. There's a big distinction between these 
two types of films, and that's why I cringed when somebody said Swordsman II 
was "better" than any of Chan's films. 
Thanks, 
Nate
From: ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Aikido vs. kicks
Date: 26 Jan 1993 22:05:21 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: yahara.engin.umich.edu

In article <1k265dINNjaf@pith.uoregon.edu> toman@bovine.uoregon.edu (Jay toman) writes:
|In article <20037@mindlink.bc.ca> Robert_Cocking@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert Cocking) writes:
|>Having read a few books on Aikido and being very new to the budo, I have not
|>found any defense against kicks.
|
|The theory (I've never played with it myself) is roughly that there are
|straight attacks (shomen-uchi,mune-tsuki, etc. ) and there are round attacks
|(yokomen-uchi,kata-dori, etc.) and that you can treat the attacks in these
|categories as the same (more or less). It doesn't matter that much which
|is the offending body part, the principle employed is the same, e.g., you 
|would treat a roundhouse kick like it was a yokomen-uchi. I would guess
|that the reality is you would need an extremely good grasp of the principles
|involved in order to get this to work. 

You know, this sounds a lot like the descriptions of escrima that
Comrade Khan posted once.  He described the fundamental technical
principle of his art as, the response to an attack depends on the angle
from which it comes more than what its exact nature is.

I'm not experienced in my own art to see something this general about
it, but I'm sure some higher understanding of this nature exists.  How
about the rest of you?  Is this one of those places where all the
diverse martial arts converge?  Is this a small part of... Greenoch?

|					J. Toman

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  ftit@engin.umich.edu   |   "... a stainless steel rat in the       |
|    (Sergej Roytman)     |  ferroconcrete wainscoting of Internet"   |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Say no to four-line .sigs.
From: R3TLM@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Fighting against animals?
Date: 27 Jan 93 22:58:55 GMT
Organization: The University of Akron


 
     As far as fighting against animals goes, you don't really have to
fight them. I used to work as a dog trainer and if you find the animals
weakness you can make it stop. Here I'd like to mention two things I've found
 
     If a dog tries to or does bite you, grab its the top half of
its mouth above the nose, so your fingers fit into its mouth between its
teeth. Squeeze, this cuts off its air supply from its nose, and then
twist. The dogs nose/upper mouth is very sensitive to attack.
 
     If a dog tries to jump at you, step to the side and pivot on your
back leg. Raise your forward knee and try to catch the dog coming down.
If that doesn't work, as the dog jumps sidestep and using both hands,
one above the head--the other over the body, push/slam the dog into
the ground.
 
     With either one of these methods, yell at the dog when you
do them. The yells usually help in keeping the dog from
continuing to attack.
 
     And for anybody who thinks these ideas are mean, I'm a dog
lover. However, I have known a few unfriendly dogs. These methods
won't permanenlty cause damage, but they will cause the dog to
rethink its ideas.
 
                                         Timothy McCollum
                                      r3tlm@vm1.cc.uakron.edu
From: dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: DOG KUNE DO (Was: Re: Fighting against animals?)
Date: 26 Jan 93 07:55:47 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <C1FLD2.EoJ@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> shulick@cineret.ucs.indiana.edu writes:
>
>Basically, the only animal that we (humans) would most likely be
>attacked by is a large dog.  And from experience, they sometimes like to
>run and then leap at you.  Umm, how should I phrase this?  Are there any
>books, or any info... or even an ART that teach how to defend against
>animals?

Did anyone happen to save a summary of one of the last few flamewars on
this topic?  Holy mackerel!  Let's not flounder into this one again.
Ignoring it would be the bass option.  I'll resume my perch, now...

D

-- 
========================================================================
Dave Smythe   N6XLP    dsmythe@netcom.com (also dsmythe@cs.stanford.edu)
From: kwp@ukc.ac.uk (K.W.Pang)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Jet Lee
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:44:54 GMT
Reply-To: kwp@ukc.ac.uk (K.W.Pang)
Organization: Computing Lab, University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.

In article <C1Fu6F.Aqy@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> rtang@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (The One Your Mother Warned You About!) writes:
 
>>Anyone like the new "Wong Fei Hung" (Once Upon A Time In China) series
>>by Jet Lee?  
>Haven't seen it, unfortunately.
>
>RT


This is a MUST for all Martial Artists interested in films, once you have seen
this, Jackie Chan doesn't compare... and I used to admire Jackie's Films...

Kam. :-)

P.S. Jet Lee has done various Shoalin Temple movies, another about a Chinese
     MA display team in America and two Wong Fei Hung films. He is, from what
     I hear, filming the 3rd Wong Fei Hung flick in Beijing, China.


--
Kam-Wing Pang   : Smile   :-)
kwp@ukc.ac.uk   : Msc Electronic Engineering  
                : University of Kent at Canterbury (0227)764000 ext 3192
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Dogs and such
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:50:39 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1993Jan27.035448.20288@midway.uchicago.edu> wag5@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>	I would have to agree with an earlier poster.  If you are
>moving through some place with some mean dogs, a short sword/long
>knife would be optimal.  

	Actually, the optimal combination is a small cow and a hammer.
When the mean dogs attack, hit the cow in the head and run away.  By
the time the mean dogs finish eating the cow you should be safely out of
danger.
								wr
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jothomas@chopin.udel.edu (John Richard Thomas)
Subject: Re: Is the video "Wing Chun Way - Vol 1" worth getting?
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:51:08 GMT

In article <LUKET.93Jan23130321@mirriwinni.ee.adfa.oz.au> luket@mirriwinni.ee.adfa.oz.au (Luke Tarantello) writes:
>It's by willam Cheung, and I presume geared towards beginners. I've done WC
>for about 2 years, but I have also been out of action for the same amount
>of time. Would I benefit from it.
>


The video you are asking about is a good video that covers all the basics of
Wing Chun.  The video is of good quality production and very organized.  He
uses the theory that watching a technique performed correctly is a big aid in
learning the technique.  The techniques are shown in normal speed and then in
slow motion.  The first tape covers the basic techniques and their applications
It also covers single and double arm chi sao drills.  If you want a detailed
review of what exactly is on the tape and the order, plus whats on vol.2, just
ask and I will post that too.


Xref: sparky rec.martial-arts:17437 rec.arts.movies:38453 alt.cult-movies:12121
From: jangi@hilbert.coe.northeastern.edu (Shrirang Jangi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,rec.arts.movies,alt.cult-movies
Subject: Re: Brandon Lee Movies
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:14:37 GMT
Organization: Northeastern University

In article <1993Jan25.002337.16445@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> cs911146@ariel.yorku.ca (JEFF HUM) writes:
>I noticed that people have failed to mention "Legacy Of Rage"
>There's a fight between Brandon and 'BOLO'.  However, the movie
>sucks, as does his other movies including Rapid Fire.  
>
>As for Jackie Chan, his recent movies aren't that great either.  He 
>focuses more on comedy and acrobatic stunts.  A memorable movie by
>JC is "Dragons Forever", directed and choregraphed by Samo Hung.
>
>Anyone like the new "Wong Fei Hung" (Once Upon A Time In China) series
>by Jet Lee?  
>

"Once Upon A Time In China" I and II are some of the most exciting kung fu
movies I have seen in years. There are a lot of lousy ones out there, even from
HongKong, but these two certainly stood out from the rest. Part 3 of this
series is already done and Tsui Hark is shooting Part 4 in Beijing right now,
although Pt. 4 won't star Jet Lee. And yes, this is much better than the
recent Jackie Chan movies. His Double Dragon (name?) was awful and "Police
Story 3" was very disappointing. His new movie "City Hunter" is currently
showing but I haven't seen it yet. But watch for any film by Tsui Hark for
creative fight scenes (eg. "Swordsman II"). BTW, all the movies mentioned 
above are from HongKong, which IMHO makes the best martial arts movies right
now.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Subject: Space Rangers
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 11:10:45 EST



Has anyone seen "Space Rangers?"  Perhaps someone even mentioned it in an
earlier thread?  Anyway, although it suffers from the typical cliches of most
TV shows (e.g., actors who are caricatures and names like "Boon"), it had some
marvelous MA stuff I thought.  When the lead role "Boon" had to fight a prince
of an alien planet, he received advice from him mean-looking cohort to
"move like water!"  I loved it, because that was the only advice he would
give... "move like water!"  

Of course the part that was left out is that "move like water" is unachievable
in the 5 minutes before the contest and is in fact a subject of lifelong
study, nonetheless, he said it on tv--pretty good.

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: schaper@fwi.uva.nl (Lancelot Schaper)
Subject: Wing Chun & Leung Ting
Organization: FWI, University of Amsterdam
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:02:19 GMT


Hi, I'm a student of the Leung Ting system, called 'Wing Tsun'.
I'm hearing a lot of stuff about other systems and it's very
hard for me to look at it objectively, because the most im-
pressing stories are told by my teacher, and he is very good!

So I like to know if there are any WC/VC/VT/... students who like
to tell me what they think about all those systems.
What is _your_ idea of the Leung Ting version of Yip Man's style?
Is your style better -if that's the right word- and if so, why?
What is your opinion about using strength, stances, kicking, etc...

I hope to start a discussion on this item, via Email or on the net.

Lancelot.




-- 
*****************************************************************************
   Lancelot Schaper                                schaper@fwi.uva.nl
   Faculteit Wiskunde en Informatica               020 - 683.17.78
   Universiteit van Amsterdam                      Nederland
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: simutis@Ingres.COM (John Simutis)
Subject: Why no punch to the head, but kick is OK ? (was: TKD rule survey)
Reply-To: simutis@Ingres.COM (John Simutis)
Organization: Ingres Division, ASK Computer Systems.
Date: 28 Jan 93 00:07:25 GMT

In article <C1JC3n.G88@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) writes:
>
>So you allow hand attacks to the head?  Out here it is generally
>illegal to even fake a hand attack to the head.
>
>More on the leg blocks; I generally lift my knee, block with shin, and
>then continue with a side or roundhouse kick to the head.  Would this
>be ok?
>
>Dakin
>burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
>
>

I don't know from kicks to the head - my style stays low - so this rule is
a little confusing to me.  Kicks seem to be (IMO) lots more powerful than hand
strikes.  Even with headgear and foot-protectors to absorb some of the 
energy, isn't a kick more dangerous than a punch?  (excluding eye-gouging
and other 'penetrative' strikes - just the more blunt-instrument type strikes).

John
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: comptec92024@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: Celtic History
Organization: Camosun College
Distribution: ucb
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 09:57:19 GMT

In article <1jnvep$s9l@agate.berkeley.edu>, actize@sag4.ssl.berkeley.edu writes:
> Hello Celtic historians.  Do you know anything about  Celts vs. Normans . In 
> 1066 William the Conquerer of Normandy (hence the word "Norman") invaded and 
> conquered what we know as England.  The people he invaded were Anglo-Saxons, 
> who I am guessing were a Celtic people.

Nope, Anglo-Saxons were germanic  while the Celtic peoples  came from an
entirly different langage group.
				Mackenzie.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: tmoody@sju.edu (T. Moody)
Subject: Dojo in Virginia
Organization: St. Joseph's University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 23:09:25 GMT


A friend of mine is preparing to move to Danville, Virginia, a mid-sized
city about one hour north of Greensboro, NC.  He asked me to inquire
about karate dojos in that area.  He is a 2 dan at the Glenside ISKF/JKA
dojo, but is more interested in good training than organizational
affiliations.  Your help is appreciated.

-- 
Todd Moody * tmoody@sju.edu  (That's St. Joseph's Univ., Philosophy Dept.)
            "In what furnace was thy brain?"  -- William Blake
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus)
Subject: Re: Greenoch History
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 02:06:13 GMT


shulick@cineret.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
>
>Seriously.. what *IS* Greenoch?


   Ah hah!  Proof of your youthful folly!  

   Are people nowadays not taught the 11th commandment, 
   "Ask not what is Greenoch !"  ??

   Well, I'll tell you just to warn you, but I'll have to be brief, 
   as I have to take care of a visitor (probably wants a tour of the
   lab).  Anyway, Greenoch is4zkbn 0zhjff3zhjdf

helll';,>>,/ celtjk3zlfgj;d
   

 3z3zplaidds  #&)
 bn2zkilt 0z
^X^V
^XC
Xref: sparky rec.martial-arts:17610 alt.cult-movies:12187 soc.culture.hongkong:17566