From: bkoike@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Bryce Koike)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Thanks Loyd!
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:48:32 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <911087e.46.719073694@ace.acadiau.ca> 911087e@ace.acadiau.ca (JOHN ANTHONY ENZINAS) writes:
>I used to play gurps. i no longer do. i found that the system became 
>tedious IMO<please don't flame this>.
>there are some good gurps supliments out there but gurps CYBERPUNK was not 
>one of them although it could have been. 

	I agree with you to some point, although not for the reasons
you've listed.  (And I did "like it" enough to go out and put down
the money for it . . .)  And I hardly consider Cyberpunk to be a
reason to stop playing GURPS :)

>the biggest problem was the lack of anything concrete. there were many many 
>good ideas (ecoteurs being one of my favorites) but there was nothing solid 
>on which to base the campaign. I will probably be flamed for not having 
>enough imagination to create my own world but with my players i have to 

	No flames, but this has always been the point of most GURPS
publications.  (Space, Horror, etc.)  Give the players and GM's the
groundwork for the genre and let them build their own worlds.  Space
is a prime example of this, as is Magic and others.  I do enjoy
creating my own worlds and I have no problem doing it when I need
to.
	But on the other hand, I don't see why this is a problem for
you.  You can always go out and buy the R. Talsorian Nightcity
supplement, pretend it was written for GURPS (no real problem
there), and use it in your GURPS campaigns.  You'll lose a few
things here and there, like cyberpsychosis (although people have
house rules for introducing it to GURPS), but that's a trade in one
must accept, I suppose.
	But honestly, if you like CP2020, then play CP2020.  There's
no reason to force a system that works fine for you into another.
(I mean, why switch for AD&D to GURPS if all you want to play is
AD&D?  There's no point.  If GURPS or CP2020 or whatever game system
it is that you're switching to happens to offer certain things that
you'd like to introduce to your games, then go ahead and play it!)
	Personally, I'm happy that GURPS Cyberpunk doesn't have a
pre-generated world.  There's not enough room in the book for a good
one, and so if one WAS introduced, it would be a bare skeleton at
best . . . not very good.  Better to just leave it out and add in
more generic CP material.

>spend most of my creative juices keeping up with them. this does not leave 
>much energy for designing corporations, governments, world politices, 
>international relations, media stars, city maps!!!, vehicles, guns, 
>cyberwear, corporate relations, laws, police reactions, legality codes, 
>various buildings(other than the Generic Bar), etc......

	CP2020 has at best, sketchy information for much of the
above.  Sure there's dry bones info on the corporations and
governments, but if you want anything in depth, you're back to
square one.  World politics?  International relations?  Again, not
very much.  Media stars?  I've got a list o' generic names that I
throw into games, so I've got insta-stars when I need 'em.
	Most of what you've listed above is in the Nightcity
supplement which is about as system-less of an R. Talsorian
supplement as I've ever seen.  I use it in GURPS (with some
overhauls to make it usable...I can't stand the CP2020 Gangs And
Guns Running Wild In The Streets thing...).

>perhaps gurps CYBERWORLD will change this but i don't think i will go back 
>to gurps. i much prefer the eligence of the CP2020 system.

	Hmn.  While I play CP2020, I wouldn't call it elegent.  The
combat system is STILL messed up (in fact my friends have forced me
to switch back to ed 1 combat rules because the new ones don't work
for them...) -- and this is back since the Mekton II days [and
earlier?  Dunno].  No one has managed to design a set of netrunning
rules that I like (or that I can actually use in my games without
boring everyone else to death).  Not a CP2020 problem, but a general
CP RPG problem...
	...etc.

	Maybe when R. Talsorian comes out with CP2030 (ack), they'll
have combat fixed.  (I do happen to approve of the CP2020 character
generation system...much better than ed1...although it's still a
class system...)
>
>--johnny vague
>first ed. = play test
>think about it