HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: BROWNH@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: 500th Anniversary of the Admiral's Voyage
Date: 15 Oct 92 12:33:03 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
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Comments: To: HISTORY%RUTVM1.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU

I don't know much about Columbus, but my impression is that he was so
greedy that he used someone else's money and was willing to risk his
own life and that of his crew in the off chance he would discover any
easy way to get rich. I could say as much about some drug dealers on
the corner.

The issue is not whether he personally did anything great (no one had
crossed the Atlantic for 500 years), but whether his action gains sig-
nifance because it had momentous consequences. For the sake of argument
let's say it did, let us say it contributed significantly to the reali-
zation that while East Asia could not be readily reached by sailing West,
at least there were new lands with people and natural resources to ex-
ploit.

Now my point was that given the forces at work in 16th century Europe,
someone surely would have discovered the New World. Other even more re-
mote portions of the glove in fact were discovered. Therefore there was
a high probability someone would do it, and the higher the probability,
the less impressive the particular case of Columbus becomes.  I might
add to this another point. Whatever comes to mind when we think of the
discovery, exploration, colonization, expropriation of Native Americans,
the slave trade, the development of a colonial economy, etc etc. in the
New World, the actual discovery seems only a small part.  Historians of
technology or the European Industrial Revolution today tend to downplay
importance of the invention of a new technology and draw our attention
to the circumstances encouraging the diffusion and application of an
existing technolgy.  Likewise, less important than Columbus' discovery
was the combination of the forces at work within Europe and the charac-
teristics of the New World that worked together to produce the outcome
that interests us.

The point is not to deconstruct Columbus, but to see his action as one
small part, fairly insignificant in itself, of a broad process.  We
don't really understand historical processes by isolating and fixating
some small triggering mechanism, but by taking into account a wide
variety of processes, events, and circumstances (Braudel's three time
dimensions). Our celebration of Columbus, then, is not imposed upon us
by the facts, but is socially constructed.  The celebration of Columbus
then is interesting as revealing the ideological position of the cele-
brators.  I don't know the answers to these questions, but was Columbus
idolized before the late nineteeth century? Was he ever a major figure
for people outside the New World or even the US? Is the worship of
Columbus connected to the development of imperialism like the Boy Scouts
and the National Geographic and putting children into sailors' suits?

Haines Brown (brownh@ccsua.ctstateu.edu)
From: bob@HALFDOME.SF.CA.US (bob pasker)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: biafra/nigeria/amin
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:46:20 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Vms-Mail-To: HISTORY-L
X-Vms-Mail-Cc: BOB
Comments: To: well!rutvm1.BITNET!history@uunet.UU.NET

i sent the stuff on this subject to a friend who is an africanist
and grew up in nigeria.  here's her reply

>From Forsythe.Stanford.EDU!BL.LXA%RLG  Wed Oct 14 10:06:23 1992 remote from
 cshub
>Received: from cshub by halfdome.sf.ca.us (DECUS UUCP ///1.3-1/2.5/);
>          Wed, 14 Oct 92 14:42:19 PDT
>Received: from forsythe.Stanford.EDU by cs.sfsu.edu (5.64/A/UX-3.00)
>          id AA08126; Wed, 14 Oct 92 10:06:23 PDT
>Message-Id: <9210141706.AA08126@cs.sfsu.edu>
>Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 10:00:56 PDT
>To: bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us
>From: "Laurie Abbott" <cshub!Forsythe.Stanford.EDU!BL.LXA%RLG>
>Subject: can you -oh africanist- shed some light here?
>
>problem with biafra and nigeria is much more complex than just nigeria
>wanting to keep ibos under control.  even before the ibos started making
>money (oil money), they had industrialized and built some fine cites
>(like enugu), excellent universities, a large medical school, and
>generally had modernized incredibly since the 50s.  not so the larger
>western centers like ibadan and lagos; while there was development,
>there was less emphasis on education, literacy, and improvement of
>general quality of life, and it showed.  biafra began to pull ahead in
>the early 60s after independence, and the western government was
>obviously threatened.  so the ibo desire for secession, and the
>nigerians desire for continued union, was at least superficially
>economic.
>
>but beneath that is the great injustice that was wreaked on all the west
>african peoples when the colonial powers assigned arbitrary borders and
>set up places like "congo" "nigeria" etc.  there was no cultural or
>religious or ethnic sense to this.  making a country out of hundreds of
>tribes who have managed to get along proximarily for centuries does not
>instantly imbue such social/economic groups with any impetus to merge.
>in fact nigeria was and is not primarily "muslim".  parts of nigeria
>(the hausa in the north) are muslim, but large sections of yoruba
>territory are christian, and there are still many many very old pagan
>religions that are associated with specific tribes and geographic
>regions.  so the biafran desire for separation from "nigeria" was really
>partly a move to redesign what the colonial powers had so arbitrarily
>set down in stone in the 19th century.
>
>idi amin can't be explained away so simplistically either.  amin was
>suffered from severe bouts of maniac depression, at which times he was
>pyschotic.  much of the driving force behind the chaos and killing of
>amin's government was directly influenced by his mental state.  although
>i don't equate him with hitler, i do see a resemblance in the savagery
>with which he directed the killing of those people/tribes which he
>viewed as threatening.
>
>more on this later.
>
>To:  BOB@HALFDOME.SF.CA.US
--
-- bob pasker
-- bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us
--
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
From: hiscrp@nuscc.nus.sg (C R Pennell)
Subject: Material for blind hist students
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:08:47 GMT

	I have a blind student doing my course on Intro to Modern Middle
East History (or some such title). To help him some of his reading
material has been scanned, computer-diskised, and tehn printed in
braille. It seems a bit of a waste doing this for one person: anyone
else interested?

Richard Pennell History NUS.
From: LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET (Lenny)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: alexandrian library
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:23:46 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
              13 Oct 1992 11:24:40 PDT from <bob@HALFDOME.SF.CA.US>

Bob, if Betelguese, Antares, and Aldeberan are greek names, then I'm wrong
about the magnitude of the loss at Alexandria.

The "ancients" were never much for effective global planning.  I suppose
that they did not expect the library to burn, but Caesar had other
ideas.

Lenny
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 19:55:39 CDT
From:         U59611@UICVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Columbus

> Greetings to list members on this, the 500th anniversary of the most
> important single event in the history of the human race.
>
> Lenny
        You mean to tell me that this list celebrates the occasion of the
  beginning of history's greatest genocide by that archetypical dead white
  Eurocentric pig Columbus.  How impolitically incorrect can you get!  How
  insensitive, monistic, positivistic and just plain evil!  NOT!
  Kelly Richter
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 12:09:47 PDT
From:         "Don W." <webbd@CCVAX.CCS.CSUS.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Word-Mac List
Comments: To: HISTORY@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu

Hello, Steve F...

>Has anyone tried to join a list called "Word-Mac"?  If so, what
>is the address for joining.  The one I found in a massive interest
>group list doesn't work.  They give the internet address as:
>        word-mac%hvrford.bitnet@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu
>
The list has moved from Haverford to Australia.  I'll post
the new address as soon as I can find it, unless someone else
on the list has it handy.

Don W. (DonWebb@CSUS.EDU)
X-Envelope-to: HISTORY@IRLEARN.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"HISTORY@IRLEARN"
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 92 23:56:49 GMT
Reply-To:     gomide@BRFAPQ
Comments:     @FAPQ.FAPESP.BR - @FAPQ%FPSP.HEPNET - @BRFAPQ.BITNET - .BR
              gateway
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was GOMIDE@BRFAPQ
From:         gomide@FPSP.FAPESP.BR
Subject:      Apologies re: InterMeta course
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history


PLEASE DO NOT SEND MONEY !
It is with regret that I perform this task. Dr. Gelson V. Gomes. a
professor of the University of Parana, Brazil, has exceeded this
privileges and announced a eletronic course:

> ____________________________________________________________
>        Mastering INTERNET Tools, Seizing METANET Power -
>                      The InterMeta Course
> ____________________________________________________________

I must apologize for this flagrant breach of network etiquette. Please
be aware that Dr. Gelson had no right to do so, since this is against
the rules of our ANSP network, and also against the Bitnet rules.
PLEASE DO NOT SEND MONEY!
I will not discuss what his motivations were. But his account has been
revoked, and there will be no such course through my network.

Please write by normal mail, to:
-> Gelson V. Gomes
-> 358, R. Alvaro Andrade - ap.1201
-> Curitiba PR BRAZIL 80610-240
to get more information on his objectives. He may want to give the
course by normal mail.  :-)

With regards,
--
Alberto Courrege Gomide | Fundacao de Amparo `a Pesquisa - (11)831-3357
Software Supervisor     | Rua Pio XI, 1500 - CEP 05468-901 - Sao Paulo
<gomide@fapq.fapesp.br> | FAX (11)261-4167 Telex (11)82014 - Brazil
(ACG8) - .BR Domain Technical Contact. |
--
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Vms-Mail-To: HISTORY-L
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 21:55:41 PDT
From:         bob pasker <bob@HALFDOME.SF.CA.US>
Subject:      re: digitizing 1790 printed census listings
Comments: To: well!rutvm1.BITNET!history@uunet.UU.NET

>     I assume your plan is to scan optically the listings in
>the printed volume.  I would find the results useful.

i'm curious to know how an optical scan of the results are more useful
than the already extant microfilms.

>     Alternatively, I would suggest the 1820 census, which
>has the least missing population (Rhode Island, New Jersey,
>Georgia, most of the Northwest Territory, and Arkansas are
>missing, according to Rossiter, CENTURY, p. 49).  (This
>information might now be incorrect, as I can't locate my Guide
>to the Census Microfilms.

alas, the NJ listings are gone for 1790-1830 (except for a few wards).
i'm using the tax ratables, myself.

--
-- bob pasker
-- bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us
--
From: CFCRW@ECNUXA.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: o.e.d.
Date: 15 Oct 92 00:28:23 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Comments: To: history@psuvm.bitnet

Hello:
I understand the Oxford English Dictionary is available on line.
If so, how do I access it?
Thanks.
From: vancleef@netcom.com (Henry van Cleef)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: Russia's OPERATIONAL Starwars Defense System
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:23:32 GMT
Organization: Netcom--posted from Andover, Mass.

Another propaganda post masquerading as "history."

-- 
Hank van Cleef  vancleef@netcom.com vancleef@tmn.com  Andover, Mass.
Unix systems consultant---kernel, device drivers, networking, X11
SysV, BSD, Sun, Ultrix, AIX, SCO. Porting a specialty. 
	     The Union Institute  History of Science
From: JACOCK01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU (Jim Cocks)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: 500 Anniversary of the Admiral's Voyage
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:48:14 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Louisville
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Comments: To: HISTORY@PSUVM.PSU.EDU

>Thank you for saying that. I'm glad someone finally did.

 Saying what ?

 --Jim Cocks
From: LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET (Lenny)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: alexandrian library
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:07:37 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
              13 Oct 1992 15:27:43 PDT from <bob@HALFDOME.SF.CA.US>

Pasker, you are so intellectual, and I am so dense, that I couldn't possibly
hope to come out ahead in an arguement with you.  Why.... each day I say
several things for which I do not carry documetary proof in my pocket.
Goodness me!  I'm not even sure how many Caesars there were! No prognostication
on my part could possibly be worth doo-doo.

Lenny
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
From: CN.WDR@forsythe.stanford.edu (W. David Rozkuszka)
Subject: British archive guide
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 02:45:24 GMT


The Jonsson Library of Government Documents has issued a 34 page
list of "British Public Record Office Archival Material at Stanford
University, with Appendices for UC/Berkeley and Selective U.S.
Libraries". The Stanford collection consists of about 10,000
microfilm reels of material in the British National Archive, and
represents the largest gathering of such material in the U.S. The
second largest collection lives across the Bay in Berkeley and makes
the San Francisco Bay Area a focus for British government archive
research. Copies are available from:

David Rozkuszka
Head, Jonsson Library of Government Documents
Stanford University Libraries
Stanford, CA  94305-6004

tel.: 415-725-1028   fax: 415-725-6874
email: davidr@forsythe.stanford.edu
       davidr@stanford.bitnet
---------------------------- End Forwarded Message ---------------------------
From: CMH114@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: 500 Anniversary of the Admiral's Voyage
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:45:29 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

Heros? The answer is obvious, for the objective romantic.

Love your heros for what they aspired to.
But always know them for what they were, warts included.

Mitch Hagmaier         One Moment in Annilihation's Waste,
Quest Laboratories     One Monent, of the Well of Life to taste-
Terraforming Division   The Stars are setting and the Caravan
State College, Pa      Starts for the Dawn of Nothing - Oh, make haste!
cmh114@psuvm.psu.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 23:58:34 EDT
From:         Lenny <LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Columbus
              12 Oct 1992 19:55:39 CDT from <U59611@UICVM.BITNET>

>                         ....How impolitically incorrect can you get!  How
>  insensitive, monistic, positivistic and just plain evil!  NOT!
>  Kelly Richter

You are correct.  I am politically incorrect.  The truth is sometimes
"incorrect".  Yes, I am insensitive, monistic....etc.  However, I'm afraid
I don't know what "NOT" means, but I'm probably that too.


Lenny  <Admirer of the Admiral, whose vision ignited an explosion of
        culture and civilization the like of which has not been seen
        either before or after.>
From: YONI@BROWNCOG.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: OED defs of betelgeuse & rigel:
Date: 17 Oct 92 02:34:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: HISTORY@PSUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"HISTORY@PSUVM.BITNET"

Bob,
How do I log on to the OED on the net? I have telnet and ftp, is this what I
need?
From: LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET (Lenny)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: 500 Anniversary of the Admiral's Voyage
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:34:40 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
              13 Oct 1992 12:02:36 PDT from <bob@HALFDOME.SF.CA.US>

>                                                      ...... scholars
>are not supposed to have heroes, otherwise how do they keep an open
>mind?

Two comments.

1.  Maybe the lack of heroes is what is wrong with scholars and scholarship.
2.  I have not noticed a superfluity of "open minds" on this forum.  Instead,
    I have found a rigidity of thought which implies emotional disease.

Lenny
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET (Lenny)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: Paula Hitler
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:29:29 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
              15 Oct 1992 10:10:40 GMT from <stevenz@EQUINOX.UNR.EDU>

Please do not restrict replies about Paula Hitler to email!  I want to hear
them too!

Lenny

P.S. Check out the book by Kubischek, Hitler's roomate in the Maennerheim days.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via:      UK.AC.OX.VAX;  9 OCT 92 14:11:39 BST
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:11:00 BST
From:         Stuart Lee <STUART@VAX.OXFORD.AC.UK>
Subject:      CTI Centre Open Day
Comments: To: ANSAX-L@WVNVM.BITNET, ENGLISH@UTARLVM1.BITNET,
              C18-L@PSUVM.BITNET, LITERARY@UCF1VM.BITNET,
              SHAKSPER@UTORONTO.BITNET, PHILOSOP@YORKVM1.BITNET,
              PHILOS-L@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK

			    CTI Centre for Textual Studies
			OUCS, 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN

				Introductory Seminar

			Friday 23 October 1992, 10.30am to 4.00pm

The CTI Centre for Textual Studies is part of a national initiative to
increase or enhance the use of computers in higher education. The Centre based
at Oxford University Computing Services covers such subjects as literature,
linguistics, classics, theology, philosophy & logic, theatre arts & drama.

The CTI Centre is holding an introductory seminar to enable lecturers in
higher education institutions to learn about our work. In the morning there
will be a series of talks and discussion sessions about various aspects
of the use of computers in higher education teaching: practical, pedagogic,
political, institutional, etc.  In the afternoon we will demonstrate some of
the hardware, software, and courseware available for higher education teaching.
There will be opportunity for participants to try out some of the packages for
themselves.  No previous knowlede of computing will be assumed and the open day
will be aimed at people unfamiliar with the CTI.

The day's programme includes:

	* An Introduction to Computers in the Humanities
	* Electronic Resources and Electronic Texts
	* Teaching Tools for the Humanities
	* Text Analysis
	* Multimedia in Textual Studies

The cost of the open day will be #35.00 (pounds), #15.00 for staff and
postgraduates at Oxford University,  which includes coffee, lunch,
and tea.  Participants may be able to obtain funding from their staff
development office.  Cheques should be made payable to Oxford University
Computer Services.  If accommodation is required for the Thursday or Friday
evening, please contact us.

Please reply to the address below by 16th October 1992.

Susan Gianni
CTI Centre for Textual Studies and
Office for Humanities Communication
13 Banbury Road
Oxford
OX2 6NN

Tel/Fax: 0865 273221
E-mail: GIANNI@UK.AC.OX.VAX, or CTITEXT@UK.AC.OX.VAX
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"HISTORY%RUTVM1.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:38:02 -0400
From:         BROWNH@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU
Subject:      RE: FTP and Telnet SItes relating to History
Comments: To: HISTORY%RUTVM1.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU

Undoubtedly people will pass along the two history anonymous FTP sites,
and so let me pass along two other anonymous FTP archives that have ma-
terial of possible interest to historians:

  PEN-L@USCVM.BITNET  This is Progressive Economists Network
  PSN-L@csf.colorado.edu  And this is Progressive Sociologists Network.

I gather both are anonymous FTP archives sites, and I know at least the
second has specifically historical files.

Haines Brown (brownh@ccsua.ctstateu.edu)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 10:47:09 EDT
From: Stephen McCluskey <SCMCC@wvnvm.wvnet.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: Constellations

Bayla --
      You're probably quite right that monastic timekeeping may have played
a role in the Carolingian interest in the constellations.  Alcuin tells us
that one of Charlemagne's daughters "studied the stars of heaven at night,
and was accustomed to ceaselessly praise the powerful God who adorns the
firmament with his constellations."  That line suggests the linkage of
star-watching and prayer may have made its way from monastic to court
culture.
      But as I noted in the Isis article you mentioned (thanks, it's
nice to know someone read it) at least Gregory of Tours was careful to
avoid the classical constellation names in his system of timekeeping, which
survived until at least the eighth century (the date of the principal
surviving manuscript).
      On balance, I'd put computus at the core of the Carolingian interest
in astronomy, with monastic timekeeping, the classical tradition of the
liberal arts, and *perhaps* even survivals of folk astronomy of the sort
found in megalithic structures playing supporting roles.  A paper I gave
on this last year at the Fourth Aachen-Alcuin Symposium should be coming out
soon in a volume edited by Paul Butzer.
--  Steve McCluskey
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 00:15:41 EDT
From:         Lenny <LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Columbus
              12 Oct 1992 20:44:42 PDT from <webbd@CCVAX.CCS.CSUS.EDU>

Two more thoughts, Don:

1.  I think that a close tie for Most Important Event in the History of
the Human Race would be the burning of the library at Alexandria.

2.  SETI is actually about 20 years old.  I don't know where all this
bologna about it beginning today came from.  I suppose NASA is just
getting into the act, and that, by definition, is the birth of the idea.
Actually,it was first proposed by an Ohio State astronomer named Drake, who
put the wheels into motion.


Lenny
Fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society
<who therefore can't be argued with>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: history@ubvm.cc.buffalo.EDU
X-VMS-To: IN%"history@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 15:53:00 EDT
From:         AS3889%ALBNYVMS.bitnet@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU
Subject:      subscribe amy swartz
Comments: To: history@ubvm.cc.buffalo.EDU

i would like to subscribe to this.  thanks.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Vms-Mail-To: HISTORY-L
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 08:49:15 PDT
From:         bob pasker <bob@HALFDOME.SF.CA.US>
Subject:      pathetic incompetence
Comments: To: well!rutvm1.BITNET!history@uunet.UU.NET

lynn and thomas:  in the name of the father (hollerith), the son (turing),
and the holy ghost (ibm) i hereby absolve you from all your sins.

type in 10 hail "grace hopper"'s and go in peace!

- bob pasker