HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ryanm@stein.u.washington.edu (Ryan Mcneilly)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Denver Police shoot man
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:19:18 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <RTARAZ.92Dec10135616@bigwpi.WPI.EDU> rtaraz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz) writes:
##>>>> On 10 Dec 92 05:26:59 GMT, ryanm@stein.u.washington.edu (Ryan Mcneilly) said:
#
#ryanm> In article <Byyvuw.Mx2@fc.hp.com> scot@hpfcla.fc.hp.com (Scot
#ryanm> Heath) writes: #SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, # #Don't point your gun
#ryanm> at the police.  # #
#
#
#ryanm> AMEN!  Why issue a warning when the man can see the police and
#ryanm> he still points at them.
#
#
#You always can not see the police specially if you are in a tense
#situation. The police should really give the suspect a chance to
#respond to the new factor (police beeing on the seen).  The first
#thing to do when you hear a freeze is to turn around and see who said
#it.  that seems to be the most comon _reflex_, and usually in tense
#situations people don't think, they act on reflexes.
#
#-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#|\///\\\/\///|                rtaraz@wpi.wpi.edu                /  Is today \ |
#|\\//\\//\\//|       1988 EX500 (missed dearly until spring)    | a good day| |
#|\\\/\///\\\/|       DOD # 0740  ||  Taurus PT-92AF             \  to die?  / |
#-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#      


The only problem is that if the person intends to shoot you he/she has an
imediate drop on you eventhough you have your gun trained on them.  The
time required to decide if the person will shoot or not is many times
shorter than pulling the trigger. BANG BANG YOUR DEAD.  The police should
identify themselves as such (police) if the suspect turns with a gun in
hand (at ready) open fire, if the person looks or brings the weapon out of a
ready position than don't shoot.  From the original post is sounded like
the suspect was a problem, saw the officers, blatently pointed a gun at
them.  This is what my post was intended to answer.

I will say different about other situations like the old lady but only
with the facts in mind.  If it sounded like shoot first and take names
later, I appologize, this is not what I ment.  --Ryan

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
  Ryan McNeilly                    Internet: ryanm@u.washington.edu
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"You can't deal from a position of weakness"  --Alfred Thayer Mahan
Moral:  Protect the 2nd Amendment!

My comments and opinions are my own and nobody elses!!!!!
From: pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm reloading question
Date: 19 Dec 92 00:24:21 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)

In article <9212160935.aa23467@sco1.qdeck.com> burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge) writes:
#Winchester-Western 231 is probably the best all-around powder for the 
#9mm.  4.4 - 4.8 grains.

Hmmm...I'm using 5.4 grains of 231 right now.  What bullet weight are you
using?  Presumably 124 or 147?  I'm using 115gr JHPs, which would explain some.
Using a bit of interpolation (bad news, I know), I figure these rounds are 
going about 1220 fps.  I'll need to chrono them, though, when I get a chance...

-- 
DVC,
  Paul
From: TTC103@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: If I was stranded on an Islanded & could only have 1 gun.. (was Re
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:20:08 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

Oops, didn't realize the question was about handguns.

Ruger GP100 .357 Mag 6 in.
From: dhm1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DANIEL HILL MCCAULEY)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Legal Age for Gun Ownership in New Jersey
Date: 12 Dec 92 17:15:52 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University


    Does anyone know the legal age for owning shotgun in New Jersey.  Thanks


                                -Dan

                                
-- 
*******************************************************************************
*Dan McCauley       (Lair of Sam, Lisa, Spot, Spot II, and Victoria)
*                              ...with carcasses of dead smelly vermin!
*******************************************************************************
From: DENNIS_@ncsu.edu (DGA)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Match, Wheel, Flint Locks
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:30:33 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <1992Dec15.002009.4217@ennews.eas.asu.edu> whetten@enws286.EAS.ASU.EDU (Frank L. Whetten) writes:
#From: whetten@enws286.EAS.ASU.EDU (Frank L. Whetten)
#Subject: Re: Match, Wheel, Flint Locks
#Date: 15 Dec 92 00:55:53 GMT
#In article <1992Dec13.234101.25158@netcom.com> tssmith@netcom.com (Tim Smith) writes:
##In article <Bz6n7t.LJo@news.cso.uiuc.edu> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:
###Does anyone know what the difference between these
###types of actions?
#
#  [lots of info deleted] 
#
##A flintlock's lock has a small piece of flint, partially wrapped in
##leather and wedged into a hammer (or cock), and contained there with
##a clamp.  When the weapon is cocked, the cock is drawn back against a
##spring, and a steel striker is raised.  When the trigger is pulled,
##the cock falls, strikes the steel, and the resulting sparks fall into
##the pan, igniting the primer (you hope).
##--Tim (tssmith@netcom.com)
#
#It never occurred to me before, but did the shooter close his eyes
#when pulling the trigger on these types of weapons?  It would seem
#like the combination of steel hitting flint and sparks falling in a
#pan of gunpowder pretty close to your nose might be hazardous to your
#sight.  (You definitely want to wear your shooting glasses :-)
#
#Somehow the image of armies marching up to each other, and closing
#their eyes (and averting their faces) to shoot strikes my funnybone.


Frank,

Firing a flintlock can be a bit disconcerting.  You don't even notice the 
cock falling on the frizzen, but that "poof!" from the primer can be pretty 
impressive.  While it is very easy to develop a "flinch" from shooting a 
flintlock, closing the eyes is not one of the prescribed steps.

Even if a "flinch" develops, it is not as big of a problem as might be 
assumed.  There is often enough time to correct the problem and 
read a short novel between ignition of the primer and the actual discharge 
of the piece.

Once you become accustomed to the slow ignition time of a flintlock (or even 
a percussion lock) very good accuracy can be had with a well made rifle.  

DGA
From: adv@druwa.ATT.COM (DeVossA)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: MarkII 22/45 query
Date: 19 Dec 92 00:24:30 GMT


I've been reading this group for a few weeks and
have seen only a couple of instances of the
Ruger MarkII 22/45.

Sorry if this is an old topic for a new pistol, but...
if anyone has experience with the 22/45 would you
send me your comments?

Is $260 a competitive price? case & spare mag

What would be a good holster for such a critter?

What is the better/preferred barrel for plinking practice?

Is this a good choice for 100-500 round handgun practice
regardless of which of the 9mm/.45 caliber pistols are also used?
For example: SIG, 1911, Glock? Not that I have one, yet...

Any help would be appreciated. Email comments and I'll post
a composite if requested.

=============================
Andrew DeVoss at 303/538-1087
adv@druwa.att.com
_______________________
The original mindsurfer - cresting only the best brainwaves.
=======================
From: 76334.1331@CompuServe.COM (Brian Millin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Dry fire - Dropping slide
Date: 12 Dec 92 17:15:43 GMT

#From "The Colt .45 Automatic - A shop manual" by Jerry Kuhnhausen:

Limit dry firing - no matter who says it's OK;

Also lists the sear bounce test as a pre-disassembly check:
Lock slide back, then release quickly. Repeat with trigger depressed. (but
not grip safety.) Hammer must not drop.

The note "This safety check may batter or damage a finely tuned
competition sear and should be done only when absolutely necessary on
tuned competition pistols." follows. All this with an unloaded pistol, of
course.

Later in the book it says to protect the sear from damage when cycling the
slide by holding the trigger to the rear when doing so. That takes the
sear off of the hammer and it cannot bounce.

That said, I dry fire my 586 and P9, particularly when practicing holster
draws. As a matter of fact, you almost have to dry-fire in competition
when using an automatic when the command "gun clear - hammer down -
holster" comes along, unless you want to fumble around.

I never let the slide drop empty without assist, or "flip" the cylinder
closed on a revolver either. Go figure.
From: cdt@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ranges
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:26:07 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1gep70INN3oq@bigboote.WPI.EDU>, bry@wpi.WPI.EDU (Bryant Nelson Obando) writes:
# Can anyone tell me of any shooting ranges which are open to the public and
# offer decent rentals in the Massachusetts and New Hampshire area?  Any other
# additional information which you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

There's a place in Monson called Downrange Shooting Center (96 Main Street,
Route 32, 413-267-3474).  M-F 9:00-8:30, S-S 8:30-8:30.  Membership $99/yr,
or $4/half-hour range time.  I've never been there, but I picked up a flyer
at a recent show, and it's the only one I know of in the state.
-- 

cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com   --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: More on dry firing
Date: 18 Dec 92 13:35:32 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

In <1992Dec17.202912.10880@chpc.org> rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes:

#Disobeying instructions of the range officer is indeed a rule violation.

#This is procedure only if the gun will function that way - some guns with
#magazine disconnect safeties will not unless a mag is inserted first 
#(thereby creating an "is the mag really empty?" risk).  This falls more 
#under the subject of "proper procedure" rather than USPSA rule - there is
#nothing I could find in the rulebook which specifies that the hammer must 
#be dropped by a trigger pull.

	I don't shoot USPSA, nor do I shoot any competetion any more, but
I was always told that the range officer is God and never to go against
his orders.  However, I was also told that you could always ask for what
you think is a reasonable variation of those orders.  Note it's "ask for."
You may always be refused.

	Having said this, why not just build yourself a holster (they
aren't that hard to make) that will accept the gun with the slide
locked back?  Place something fluorescent in the ejection port that
would keep the slide from closing and you're far, far safer than with
a closed gun.  This is for semi-auto's, of course.  Wheelguns shouldn't
suffer from a dry-fire problem.  If they do and are DA, swing the cylinder
out and leave it out.  The range officer's main concern is safety, while
the shooter is also considering his prized and expensive gun.  There is
little reason that these special cases cannot be handled to the
satisfaction of both parties and with no compromise on safety.

	Personally, dropping a hammer is, to me, less certain of an
inert and safe gun than an open action is.  A few hang-fires or no-fires
tend to make one remember those few times the hammer went "click" on a
live round.

	Should I ever get the time and money to shoot in contests, will
I be out of line asking for these ideas to be considered by the RO?

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<  "This isn't an answer, it's a pagan dance around a midnight fire  >
<   written in intellectual runes." -- Rich Young                    >
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Toy guns (was: More newbie questions)
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:17:40 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <1992Dec15.195829.18377@igor.tamri.com> donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin) writes:
#For folks with kids, I was wondering how they handle the toy gun debate.

Well, as I recall from my childhood decades ago, I had a lot of fun
playing cowboy, G.I, etc. with fairly realistic-looking toy replicas
of genbuine weapons (guns, grenades, etc.), but given the tenor of the
times I think it is currently a very bad idea to play with anything
that closely resembles a genuine weapon.  I have less problem with
bright orange or day-glo green plastic toy weapons, until such time as
there are a significant number of real weapons looking like that.
However, the kids should be taught not to point even toy weapons at
people who are not voluntarily participating in the play activity.

In some ways it is inadvisable to let kids think that death and
destruction are fun, but if you try to prohibit it I think you'll
find you're running against the current TV, comics, and movie culture.
From: bercov@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (John Bercovitz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ballistics:9X18mm
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:20:12 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California

In article <9212091827.AA13352@sunsrvr1.cci.com> sjo@sunsrvr1.cci.com 
(Steve Owens) writes:
##FRAHM@UCSU.COLORADO.EDU (Joel A. Frahm) writes:
###Hello!  I just bought a model 63 ppk style Hungarian auto pistol in 9X18mm.

#	There are several problems with this cartridge:
#	1) Trying to find useable bullets.
#	2) Trying to find reloadable brass.
#	I purchased a 9X18 East German Makarov and the only thing
#I could find is the surplus steel stuff.  If I could make reloadable
#brass from some other round, I would, but checking the spec's from
#Cartridges of the World I can't find anything close enough to do the
#job (I asked one of the guys at the local shop about trimming down
#9X19, and he said it wouldn't work. :-( )

##It seems like a pain to have to "squash" every bullet, like
##one poster suggested.   If standard bullets can't be used,

Speaking as that one poster, I can tell you it was a pain.  8-)

The 9x18 case can indeed be made from the 9x19; I made loads of 
them that way from Winch. brass.  The 9x18 bullet is shorter than
the 9x19 bullet so the "seat" for the bullet is still deep enough
after you've trimmed the extra millimeter off the case.  In other
words, the thin part of the case is still long enough even after 
trimming.  Scuttlebutt has it that the first 9x18 cartridge was
formed by cutting off a 9x19; don't know if it's true or not but
I wouldn't doubt it; they seem to be near twins from my measurements.

In the American Rifleman this month, page 70, 363 diam HP bullets for
the Makarov cartridge are given as being available from Naval Ordnance
Works, Rt. 2, Box 919, Shepherdstwon, W. Va., 25443.  This will be a
real boon to the 9x18 if they're any good.  If anyone buys some,
could you report back here on how well they work?  Thanks.

John Bercovitz
From: smpod@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Question on Gun shows
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:21:26 GMT
Organization: who knows

lvc@cbvox1.att.com (Lawrence V Cipriani) writes...
#smpod@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan) writes:
#Only OGCA members may purchase firearms at an OGCA show.  Guest can buy
#anything but a firearm.  

This rule is not always followed.

#OGCA shows tend to have a lot of older firearms,
#if you are looking for collector pieces it's a great show ...  

In terms of firearms, old and new, and ammo and bullets selection, this
show is the best in the area.
From: 76334.1331@CompuServe.COM (Brian Millin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: More on dry firing
Date: 12 Dec 92 17:16:28 GMT


	
USPSA rules state that the procedure for "hammer down" is to drop the
hammer by means of the trigger. There is even a provision for pistols with
a magazine safety - you put in an empty mag and then do the deed.

There aren't many shooters around with more money in their pistols than
IPSC shooters, and they are REQUIRED to dry fire at least once each time
they run a stage.

So there.
From: allanh@sco.COM (Allan J. Heim)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: If I was stranded on an island & could only have 1 gun
Date: 19 Dec 92 00:24:15 GMT
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.


ttc103@psuvm.psu.edu:

   Ruger Mini-30 (7.62x39) in stainless steel and a case of Winchester
   soft point ammo.

Not a bad choice...but why bother with a semiauto gun?  Why bother with
the increased complexity of a semi, when a bolt-action gun would be
lighter, simpler, and probably more reliable?  I know Interarms imports
a small Mauser-type rifle chambered for that round.  Get it plated, and
you'd be set.

Now, if *I* were stuck on an island...I'd get me a nice Gunsite Scout
Rifle....
--
Allan J. Heim   allanh@sco.COM   ...!uunet!sco!allanh   +1 408 427 7813
From: emory!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Stainless and WD40
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:33:57 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <EDP.92Dec14120552@roo.sneaks.kodak.com> edp@sneaks.kodak.com (Ed Pendzik -- Sun Consulting) writes:
#
#there are two bad things about wd-40.
#
#1) it's hydroscopic, (sp?) which means that it actually draws water from the
#air, thus it attracts water to your pistol.

It's mostly kerosene, it is not hydroscopic. Like any hydrocarbon, it
displaces moisture. In fact it says right on the can that you can use
it to displace moisture in electrical systems.

#2) IMHO, it's too thin, especially when you fire a bunch of rounds and
#your pistol heats up.

It's mostly kerosene. It's a fine solvent, but it's not a good gun oil.

#I have been using break-free for years. it's thicker than wd-40,
#it doesn't attract water, and has teflon in it.

Break Free is ok, but the teflon content is over-rated as a lubricant.
Under pressure, teflon acts as a friction enhancer, not a friction
reducer. Try Dri-Slide instead for a good pressure lubricant, or a
thin film of moly wheel bearing grease. Of course that attracts dirt,
so you have to clean more often.

Gary
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why no plastic cased .38 special?  (There is!)
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:19:12 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <1992Dec16.113628.4692@michael.apple.com> you write:
# ...
#Why are there no {rifle,pistol, revolver} rounds loaded in plastic
#cases?  Sure, we have the Aluminum Blazers, but why not plastic?

  I have fired some .38 Special rounds in plastic cases (with
metal bases.)  The company's name is something like U.S.Ammo
(I have the empties at home.)  The ammo works just fine, but
it sounds different and feels as if the recoil is on the light
side.  The ammo is reloadable - as I remember you can either
boil the cases to get them back to size, or just let them stay
around for a while.  Decapping/repriming is about the same, and
the bullet snaps into the case with a recess near the base of
the bullet mating with a projection near the mouth of the
case.  It looked very easy, but the special bullets weren't
cheap enough.

  While I bought my box a fe years ago, I'm pretty sure I've
seen this for sale within the last couple of months.

# ...

--henry schaffer

P.S. This reminds me of one of my favorite stories, and this
is a good chance to tell it.  I was out shooting with my wife
the day I shot this box of ammo, and the only other people at
the pistol range were two large men in camos with .45 autos
strapped to their sides in quick-draw holsters and who were
festooned with extra magazines.  They were at the other end of
the firing line, had IPSC style targets up and were playing 
some kind of complicated combat game.  They walked over to say
hi when I was shooting this new ammo and remarked on the unusual
sound - so I held out my 686 and the ammo box and invited them
to try.  One of them took the gun, loaded two rounds, looked
downrange and shot at the clean target which my wife had just
put in her lane.  (He hit twice close together just above the
black bull at 12 oclock.)  Then he realized that he had used
her target instead of mine, and started apologizing - Ma'am, I'm
very sorry, I just wanted to see where the shots printed ...
My sweet, thin wife smiled at him and said, "Oh, don't apologize,
it's no problem, I only use the black part of the target.  His
jaw dropped, his friend started laughing and slapped him on the
back with a blow sufficient to knock over a goal post, and I
have one of the best stories ever to tell.  (And no, she wasn't
exaggerating much.  I wish I had her hand/eye coordination.)
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: Gyrojet
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:21:16 GMT


#What kind of gun is a Gyrojet? Haven't heard of it here in the UK. What ammo
# does
#it use, muzzle velocity, etc? Email me with any wisdom.

The Gyrojet was available as a handgun or a carbine back in the 1960s.
The round it fired was basically a miniature rocket.  I can't post
numbers, but I remember reading that it achieved peak velocity about
50 feet downrange.

One of the original inventers is producing new ammo for his baby, and
it sells for $41/box of either 6 or 10 rounds (I don't remember).
Original ammo starts at about $10/round.

You can see a Gyrojet in use in an old James Bond film (memory lapse -
can't remember the title offhand), or in Jay Leno's recent film,
'Collision Course.'

Rob
From: gtao@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Greg )
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: MAC10 - open bolt v. closed bolt
Date: 18 Dec 92 01:56:21 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

Having no personal experience with the MAC10, I decided to turn to 
you netters.  I have always liked the MAC10, tho' I have never had 
the occasion to fire one.  One recent dealer price I was quoted was
about $300 for the closed-bolt model, and about $800 for the open
bolt model.  Both were chambered in 9mm, and I guess the open-bolt
model is about 10 years old.

I was wondering what the advantages are to owning an open-bolt
MAC10?  I have heard that they are easily converted to full-auto, 
but that is illegal in my state, and I have no intention of doing
so.  Is the open-bolt any more durable?  Is it more accurate?  Is
the price just a reflection of the fact that open bolt MAC10-style
guns are no longer produced.  Without enough compelling reasons, I
would tend to lean towards the Cobray, since I could get a new one.

Thanks in advance,
 

*******************************************************************************
* Gregory Tao                      | E-mail to:  gt38091@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu     * 
* Univ. of IL at Urbana-Champaign  |        OR      gtao@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu     *
* Department of Computer Science   |        OR      gtao@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu     *
* --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *
*                                                                             *
*  	``Change, suddenly, is everywhere we look, sweeping empires and       *
*    ideologies before it, shaping a new era even as we watch. Such moments   *
*    are rare. Today we stand at such a moment.''                             * 
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*              University of Illinois.					      *
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