HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: soufi@cs.uiuc.edu (Khaled S. Soufi)
Subject: Re: Are Lebanese considered ARABS (J. LAWEN a PALESTINIAN)
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:29:19 GMT

revans@euclid.ucsd.edu (Ron Evans) writes:


> <1993Jan11.065124.26726@mcs.kent.edu> rayes@Goat.mcs.kent.edu (Sandra Rayes):

>>As a westerner, listening to this back and forth between ARAB brothers
>>only makes me think 'Boy, those French colonists sure did an outstanding
>>job dividing a nation amongst itself'.  I know some Christian Lebanese
>>who prefer to call themselves "Phoenicians", rather than Arabs and this
>>makes me, a non-Arab, sick at heart to see the residual effects of
>>Western colonialsim still alive and well today.  

>	Is it also sickening to hear Lebanese speaking French?

>>Fact is, the Lebanese,
>>regardless of religion, are Arabs and therefore have a rich history,
>>language and culture which is inspiring.  So what the hell is your
>>problem, Br. LAWEN????

>	This is a bit like saying the Canadians are European.
>       There are sizable non-Arab ethnic groups in Lebanon,
>       including Kurds and Armenians, that make up perhaps
>       7% of the population.

There is a sizable non-French ethnic groups in France (Algerians,
Marrocans, and Tunisiens to name a few).  Should France quit its
European ties and join, say, the Arab League?  Your point, if any, is
not clear.

>-- 
>Ron Evans (revans@math.ucsd.edu)

-- 
+-----------Khaled Soufi-------------+--------------------------+
|   Department of Computer Science   | email: soufi@cs.uiuc.edu |
| U. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign | phone: (217)244-2274 (W) |
+------------------------------------+--------------------------+
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:25146 talk.politics.soviet:10374 soc.culture.greek:12165 soc.culture.europe:11139 soc.history:10648 soc.culture.turkish:14092
From: visser@convex.com (Lance Visser)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: "Kill file" is a confession of intellectual inadequacy, "uri-ne".
Date: 11 Jan 93 19:13:33 GMT
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <9301101929@zuma.UUCP> sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) writes:

+>In article <1iofqaINN4v4@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bv652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ilan Uri Woll) writes:

+>>Due to the death of Serdar Argic, I return him to my kill file.

+>When used by the likes of "wollian/perlmanian/arromdian", "kill file"
+>is either a confession of intellectual inadequacy, or a substitute
+>for stating delusional beliefs that can't withstand the light of
+>open debate. 

	There is no open debate when you refuse to respond to criticism of your
material and continue to repost material proven wrong.  You are not
interested in debate, only propoganda.  You have misrepresented the views 
of most of your sources, selectivly quoted others and have used racist 
"research" to try and prove your fantasies about greeks not being "real" 
greeks.
	There is no open debate with a coward who is so ashamed of the material
that he is posting that he hides his real identity.

	And there is of course the matter of a long-standing challenge for
you to go on the record as to what territories in europe, the middle east,
the former soviet union and North Africa you consider to be rightfully 
turkish territory.  You do not dare answer.
From: jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: american opinion
Date: 6 Jan 93 14:36:20 GMT
Distribution: talk,world
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1993Jan6.110015.5241@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
~
~How can you be born in the country and not be a citizen?
~

My daughter was born in Britain, and she is only allowed British citizenship
because her (Greek) mother was finally, after letters to MPs etc., deemed
to be "settled" in Britain. Not that I would hold Britain up as model of a
perfect democracy.... ;-(




-- 
===Jeremy Henderson===jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk=          

This message cost the net hundreds if not thousands of dollars.
Bloody good value if you ask me.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24676 soc.history:10539 soc.culture.greek:12040 soc.culture.turkish:13793
From: cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu (Michael Silverman)
Subject: Re: News from the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Organization: Priests of the Temples of Syrinx
Date:  5 Jan 93 01:10:06 GMT

In <Jan.4.18.28.39.1993.23427@bach.rutgers.edu> marwang@bach.rutgers.edu (Marwan Gharaybeh) writes:

>Don't you dare compare America to the Nazi Zionists. The American "rule


"Nazi Zionists"

Once again Marwan shows that he is committed to clear level headed
debate in the interests of peace in the Middle East. Note his careful
avoidance of anything remotely resembling emotionally-charged
rhetoric, which, though completely false, is designed to elicit
--
cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu

"One likes to believe in the freedom of baseball" - Geddy Lee
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani)
Subject: Re: Deportation vs. Murder
Organization: LC
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 02:02:43 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.190629.19897@das.harvard.edu> adam@endor.uucp (Adam Shostack) writes:
>In article <Jan.4.13.19.05.1993.19258@bach.rutgers.edu> marwang@bach.rutgers.edu (Marwan Gharaybeh) writes:
>>kremer@taveng.enet.dec.com writes:
>
>>>	Oops your anti-Semitism is showing again.
>
>>Insisting that I am anti-Semitic when I SAID several times that I am 
>>a Semite is really stupid and foolish on your part. You are very much
>
>Insisting that you don't speak English very well, while clear from
>your posts, does not excuse your ignoring the fact that the words
>anti-Semite and semite are not related, as you have been told many
>times. 

It stunns me how you are so good at manipulating issues and 
sometimes convincing people that they are guilty while they are not.
It really stunns me about you.  May be GOD has a wisdom in giving
you such a way.

If you wish to be so frank, then change the word from Anti-semite
to Anti-Jewish.  Isn't your target is adressing the 
man as being Anti-Jewish?  Then spell it out.  By using the word
Semite, you are gonna have to resort to ugly insults such as
the ones above.

Marwan, I advise you not to give up.  And don't be fooled with
Danny's method of addressing things. Use your judgement, but
from my experience on this net, Danny and his alikes managed
to discourage people from their original stands by using words. 
Stand firm, W-Allah Ma`ak.  Keep your Eman strong.

jle

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:25068 talk.politics.soviet:10337 soc.culture.greek:12134 soc.culture.europe:11104 soc.rights.human:4752
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: israel vs. the world
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: talk
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 14:49:36 GMT

"wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>  writes:
# To: Josh Backon
# 
# You don't realize by what a thin thread Israel is hanging in the
# Western world. Writers like Leibowitz, Harkabi and Neusner are
# among a small group of Israelis and Diaspora Zionists whom
# opinion elites in the West listen to with any respect. And yet
# you and many other Israelis insult their sanity, intelligence and
# character without taking the trouble to address any of the
# substantive ideas in their works.

I have read Leibowitz, I have heard Leibowitz, I have talked
with Leibowitz. Undoubtedly, he is a very unique person who
posseses extraordinary gifts. He is also a person who takes
very extreme opinions on various issues, and tends to abstract
situations into absurd black vs. white confrontations. Personally,
I think his problem is that he "logicizes" and oversimplifies
things to a ridiculus degree, which strongly affects the
conclusions he draws. Also, in his own words, he "draws pleasure
from hurting people where it hurts the most - by mocking their
most holy values". Strangely, I detect the same tendencies in
your posters, although on a different scale.

# The day you lose your Leibowitz's, Harkabi's and Neusner's is the
# day that Israel is going to be finished.

Take a valium, you seem to be losing it, Rabbi Mcguire. Even if
they leave us, we still have you and Henderson to be our voice
of reason and compassion.

-Danny Keren.


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: News from the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:13:34 GMT


aberman@cs.washington.edu (Andrew Berman) writes:
 
# It might be interesting to publish the standard American or British
# police or military response to someone running at them.  The French
# response to a truck coming towards them in Somalia was to shoot up
# the truck, killing several occupants.  I heard no great outcry
# here about that.
# 
# I also heard no great outcry when a Montana teenager was sent to 30 years
# in prison for throwing stones at passing cars.   But I digress..

To continue the digression, does anyone know what became of
the people who were captured stoning cars on a Florida highway
(I-295 was it?).

I had a chance to get a first hand view at rock throwing techniques
developed in the Daharia camp. Stoning of cars on the ajacent road
became so furious that a 4 meter high fence was erected between
the camp and the road. To overcome this, people started throwing 
large stones in the air, over the fence, so they will smash into
the windows of passing cars (which usually speed when at the
vicinity of the camp to avoid trouble). Although the stones are
thrown at a parabola, it is quite hard to avoid hundreds of them
which fall from above, and when they slam into the window of a 
car driving 90 Km/hour the effect is rather nasty.

-Danny Keren.


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: chrism@cirrus.com (Chris Metcalfe)
Subject: Will the UN Condemn Murder-Support States?
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 01:14:42 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.191927.22884@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>
>From Yesterday's Israel Line:
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>Investigation Completed of Israeli Drug Dealer Who was Drafted by
>the Fatah Terrorist Organization
>
>KOL YISRAEL reports that the investigation of Refael Avraham,
>suspected of receiving money from the Fatah terrorist organization
>for planning and carrying out terrorist attacks in Israel, has been
>completed. Avraham, a resident of Rishon Letzion, admitted that he
>was drafted by the Fatah, met with senior officials from that
>organization, and received money to plan and carry attacks on
>prominent public figures in Israel. He claimed that he never
>intended to carry out his missions. A previous KOL YISRAEL report
>stated that Avraham was known to be a drug dealer in Rishon
>Letzion.
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>-Danny Keren.

Now, I would like to see an immediate UN condemnation of Tunisia for
supporting an organization that is attempting acts of murder against
political figures of another state, Israel, even as Israel is engaged
in the peace process.

Don't bother to argue "but look at what Israel did, blah, blah..."
I'm interested to see if you think the UN should be "even-handed"
in its issuing of condemnations.

Condemnation should also be applied to Saudi Arabia for supplying 
funds to the HAMAS organization in Judea and Samaria, who are 
carrying out acts of murder with intent to effect the self-published 
goal of terminating the Middle East peace process.  Or perhaps
some of you support the goals of HAMAS?

Maybe the UN has no facility to issue a condemnation against a non-
member proxy organization, but they certainly can "follow the money"
to the source, and lay the appropriate blame.  How long will the
UN allow the confrontation states to tickle Israel's red-line through
these shadow organizations while they reap the political benefits
of Israel's responses?

The PLO has observer status, should that be revoked as was the U.S. 
dialogue relationship?

What do you think?

-- Chris Metcalfe

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: News from the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:11:56 GMT

jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson) writes:
#
#I understand that some simple natural language programs have trouble with 
#figures of speech, but most intelligent human beings can recognize a figure
#of speech when they see one, and would recognize that "where" in this context
#does not refer to a specific geographical location.

Heavy, heavy! Lay it on us, Jeremy!

#But to respond to your substantive (I use the word loosely) point, you claim
#that Makowsky's kahanist views are considered a minority, but I note that the
#deportation was supported by ALL parties in the Knesset, and by 91% of the
#Israeli public. In the "spectrum" of views held in the Knesset apparently
#NO-ONE considers the Geneva Convention worthy of observing. Some spectrum!

1) Supporting the deportation does not imply equivalence with Khana
   like opinions. When he ran to the Knesset, he had 1 out of 120
   seats.

2) Most countries violate and have violated the Geneva convention
   in a much more flagrant manner when their existance and the
   security of their citizens is at stake. NO-ONE (tm) protested
   when Britain methodicly killed as many German civilians as it
   could during WW2, even when it served no purpose whatsoever.

#I also note that, in the matter of the shooting of the 10-year old girl by
#Israeli soldiers, a great many people on this forum have leapt to justify
#the soldier's action, and NO-ONE has expressed regret at the child'd death.

Not only is this a complete lie, but I think that, in general, it
is the Israeli bashing side that shows more disregard for human
life, by justifying murder of Israelis as a "natural" phenomena,
even if they are just civilians that happen to be living, or passing,
through the territories.

#You claim that Makowsky represents a minority, but in fact he appears to
#represent a substantial majority of Israelis and their apologists who wish
#to impose a cruel despotism on the land they occupy using any methods at their
#disposal, no matter how despicable.

That is your intrpretation, but many of them see it differently; they
want to raise their chances of survival in a very hostile environment.
Of course, they could be wrong, but their motives are different than
those you speculate.

-Danny Keren.



Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24896 soc.culture.greek:12081 soc.history:10590
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.greek,soc.history
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Some questions to you...
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 93 21:43:48 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <C0GpAx.CKG@acsu.buffalo.edu> v999saum@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Varnavas A. Lambrou) writes:

>1. Do you approve any massive settling in any part of the world, which has
>the purpose to change the region's demographic character?

Your opinion; hardly useful. Nobody has the right to ask the people of 
Turkiye to go through another decade of nightmare just so that the Greek 
governments could give another chance to the Greek Army to slaughter more 
innocent Turks. Greeks had their chance between 1960 and 1974. But they 
proved beyond any doubt that Turkish lives and rights mean nothing next 
to the intoxication of their Pan-Hellenistic utopias. In 1974 the Junta 
of Greek Colonels sent in a terrorist by the name of Sampson, who 
toppled Makarios' government and began preparations to have Cyprus 
annexed to 'democratic' Greece. At the same time the Greek-Cypriots 
began wholesale massacres of Turkish villagers to simply eliminate
the Turkish Cypriots. It was this event that forced the Turkish 
Army to land in Cyprus on July 20, 1974 and to secure the Northern
part of the island. All Turks were moved to the North and eventually
that led to the formation of the Turkish Republic of Northern 
Cyprus, where Turks can now live unmolested and free. The 'democratic'
government of Greece did not go to war, but its large force on the
Island was badly defeated. The Greeks could not swallow this defeat.
There is a Turkish saying that one cannot cover up the sun with
mud.

  Source: 'Cyprus: The Tale Of An Island,' A. H. Rizvi, p. 42

   13-3-1975 On the road travelling to the South to the freedom of
             the North

   "A Turkish woman was seriously wounded and her four-month old
   baby was riddled with bullets from an automatic weapon fired by
   a Greek Cypriot mobile patrol which had ambushed the car in which
   the mother and her baby were travelling to the Turkish region.
   The baby died in her mother's arms.

   This wanton murder of a four-month-old baby, which shocked foreign
   observers as much as the Turkish Community, was not committed by
   irresponsible persons, but by members of the Greek Cypriot security
   forces. According to the mother's statement the Greek police patrol
   had chased their car and deliberately fired upon it."

Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Poison Gas in the Mideast 
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 01:57:24 GMT

gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane) writes:
# dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
 
## As to the major characteristic of Nazi terror, mass murder of
## civilians with poison gas, it was practiced in the mideast only
## by Arabs against other Arabs (Iraq and Egypt).
# 
# One small quibble, Danny: the Iraqis were using poison gas on Kurds, and
# it is my understanding (correct me, please, if I'm wrong) that Kurds are
# not Arabs.  This is not, obviously, intended to excuse such an outrage
# but I find the frequent accusation that Arabs perform atrocities on
# other Arabs to have unfortunate overtones of ethnocentricity.
# 
# For my own interest, I'd like to know what you mean about the reference
# to Egypt.  Iraqi use of gas is pretty well established and familiar, due
# to news reports, but I hadn't heard anything about the Egyptians.


You are correct, neither Kurds nor Iranians are Arabs.

Egypt used poison gas in quite a few occasions against Yemenite
civilians in 1967, when it intervened in the civil war there. It
is quite well documented. when their bases in the Sinai were
overrun by the Israeli army, equipment for gas warfare was
found in some of them.

-Danny Keren.


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:25059 soc.rights.human:4749
From: cpr@igc.apc.org (Center for Policy Research)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Nobel prize for Rabin
Date: 5 Jan 93 09:10:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:1hlv3nINNmvi@manuel.anu.edu.au:-1069300612:cdp:1483500316:000:546
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!cpr    Jan  5 01:10:00 1993


I do not know who is proposing Mr. Rabin for Nobel Prize.

Those who are contemplating such a proposal, are kindly requested
to acquaint themselves with damning evidence about war crimes
committed under direct orders of Mr. Yitzhak Rabin. These war 
crimes were committed in 1948, 1967, 1987 and later. A more
detailed, though summary, paper on these war crimes, has been posted
in this conference a few weeks ago and can be obtained from
the author of these lines.

Elias Davidsson
Center for Policy Research
Iceland

email:   elias@ismennt.is
From: shaig@vivaldi.think.com (Shai Guday)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: News from the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Date: 9 Jan 93 01:30:52
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: world
	<1ik4esINN4jt@early-bird.think.com> <1il004INNh3c@life.ai.mit.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vivaldi.think.com
In-reply-to: gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu's message of 8 Jan 1993 22:42:12 GMT

In article <1il004INNh3c@life.ai.mit.edu> gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Basalat Ali Raja) writes:
   jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson) wrote:

   # You're forgetting, Makowsky knows *everything*. There are lots more where he
   # comes from, that's why they don't need to bother with trials in Israel.

   In article <1ik4esINN4jt@early-bird.think.com> shaig@Think.COM (Shai Guday) writes:

   >Sorry to tell you but Makowsky lives in the United States. 

   According to Makowsky, Makowsky comes from Israel.

David please put this to rest, if you have no objections.

A. Do you come from Israel?
B. How long were you there?



--
Shai Guday              | Knowing martial arts allows one to remain calm when
OS Software Engineer    | confronted by idiots, secure in the knowledge that
Thinking Machines Corp. | you could dismember them easily, while you calmly
Cambridge, MA           | proceed to dismember them easily.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu (Michael Silverman)
Subject: Re: israel as asset
Organization: Priests of the Temples of Syrinx
Date:  9 Jan 93 18:00:21 GMT

In <1993Jan9.1777.22304@channel1> wayne.mcguire@channel1.com (wayne mcguire) writes:
>background on Churba.
>logic, then, the U.S. should be providing MORE than $1,000 per
>annum per Saudi in aid. But we don't, do we. Saudi Arabia pays
>its own way.



Perhaps if Israel had the world's largest petroleum reserves, it
too could pay its own way!

--
cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu

"One likes to believe in the freedom of baseball" - Geddy Lee
From: cpr@igc.apc.org (Center for Policy Research)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Report: U.S. insists Pakistan p
Date: 11 Jan 93 01:29:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:C0LG2B.H72@newsflash.concordia.c:-1251856413:cdp:1483500319:000:293
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!cpr    Jan 10 17:29:00 1993


For the sake of an enlighting debate, I would be thankful if
we would agree on a definition of TERRORISM.
My attempt at definiton is the following:

TERRORISM constitutes the infliction of physical harm to
civilians for political purposes.

Do you agree, folks ?

Submitted by Elias Davidsson
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:25055 talk.politics.soviet:10329 soc.culture.greek:12127 soc.culture.europe:11098
From: naftaly@supergas.dazixco.ingr.com (Naftaly Stramer)
Subject: Re: News from the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Reply-To: naftaly@dazixco.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Electronics
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 16:58:57 GMT


In article <Jan.4.18.28.39.1993.23427@bach.rutgers.edu>, marwang@bach.rutgers.edu (Marwan Gharaybeh) writes:
>astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
>
>>The death of a child is always a tragic event. It's truly shameful
>
>So ask the Israeli blood thirsty government to stop using machine guns
>against 9 year old civilians.

Or maybe ask the arabs to stop sending small children to the streets to throw
stones.



>>Alan H. Stein   -----  AJIN   -----  astein@israel.nysernet.org
>
>--Marwan


---
Naftaly Stramer (303)581-2370, FAX (303)581-9972    Intergraph Corporation
Internet: naftaly@dazixco.ingr.com                  Electronics Division    
UUCP: ..uunet!ingr!dazixco!naftaly  	            6101 Lookout Road
Please excuse my English			    Boulder, CO 80301
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24990 soc.rights.human:4740