From: rhr9081@hertz.njit.edu (Ray Rich)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Sin to Heaven?  NO.
Date: 24 Jul 92 01:29:40 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Jul22.140028.5733@iscsvax.uni.edu> marshall1198@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.012538.5855@njitgw.njit.edu>, rhr9081@hertz.njit.edu (Ray Rich) writes:
>> In article <1992Jul20.224215.5691@iscsvax.uni.edu> marshall1198@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>> 
>> D  Okay, you bigot, you consider all the other faiths of the world (and there
>> are many) to be living lives of sin and death regardless of their altruistic
>> accomplishments.  You just prove that religious discrimination is still alive
>> and well in this world and that is truly sad.  How long before all you
>> christian holy soldiers take up arms and back your prejudice with force?  BTW,
>> it seems your bigotry also includes Judaism, as they do not follow Christ.
>> Hmmm.. Seems you can make a world of enemies with one foolish statement.
>
>For one, looking outside my "religion", most other religions also consider
>themselves the only true and good faith.  Why pin down us?  Is it because we
>seem to be the zealous or out-there or annoying than other religions?  We
>believe that Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.  Judaism doesn't
>believe their own prophets when they said that the Messiah would come.  Sorry
>for making enemies, but it is written that people will hate us because of
>Christ.  Maybe thats very literal.
>
	Well, all religions consider themselves the one, true path.  christians,
however, have been known to take up arms en-masse and attempt to eradicate the
other faiths.  In some cases they have succeeded.  You are also the most
dominant and outspoken faith in the U.S.
	Jews do believe their prophets that the Messiah will come.  They just
believe that jc ain't it.  Personally, I don't think your belief in christ
has anything to do with your being hated.  I think it has more to do with
your being closed-minded, ignorant, and intolerant.

>> D Because the Bible said it was inspired by god doesn't make it true.  Anyone
>> can write a book and say it was inspired by god.  Hell, many criminals claim
>> their unquestionably heinous acts as "inspired by god." You can quote chapter
>> and verse until you're blue in the face, it doesn't prove anything. You're no
>> more righteous than the followers of any religion. Personally, I'm more prone
>> to follow the beliefs of a book whose author can be found, not a book from
>> ages past, translated numerous times with stuff lost each time, whose
>> authorship is questionable.
>> 
>
>Did the criminals have miracles to back them up?  No.  Did they go against the
>nature of God?  His will is to have His creation believe and follow Him, not to
>kill people at random or whatever the crime was.
>
	Large groups of organized christians have gone against the nature of
your god.  At the time they thought themselves as righteous as you.  As for
killing people at random, the Spanish Inquisitors were very systematic.

>The disciples had Jesus with them and He did perform many miracles so that
>people would believe that He was sent of God.  After he rose to His father's
>side, He sent the Holy Spirit to the disciples and they also performed miracles
>because of the faith that God gave them.  They had proof.  Miracles are still
>performed to this date.  It's written that "If you have faith the size of a
>mustard seed, you may tell a tree to plant itself in the sea and it will do
>it."  People are still convinced and saved after seeing works like these.  Why
>don't you search out these things and SEE for yourself.  Don't sit at home and
>reason posibilities out of existance.  GO and check it out.
>
	Again, no evidence other than bible reference that jc performed miracles.  You would think such incredible events would surface in other tomes of the
period.  "They had proof," you say, but you show us none.  Miracles ARE NOT
performed to this day, unless you count rust stains that resemble jc or the
mysterious growth of withered limbs, the latter of which has been proven to be
charlatanry in every investigated case.

>>  Our oppression?  Look at who controls the airwaves.  I don't see any Satanic
>> Cable Network (unless you consider MTV   :)  ), but your pablum pukers flood
>> the airwaves.  I don't mind this tho, because I have the freedom to change
>> the channel and watch something intellectual.  I don't recall an Unholy
>> Satanic Empire spreading its philosophies thru force or coersion either.
>
>Hmmm... Are we the only ones who care about peoples eternal souls?
>
	Yes, because your religion puts such an importance on it.  I find the
concept of a "soul" to be nonexistant and meaningless.  Thus, I am not on the
air trying to save everyone's.  Besides, how easy do you think it would be to
form a Satanic Cable Network?  Considering the fact that the christians control
the airwaves with an iron fist?
>> 
>> D  Personally, I don't care how much money I spend here.  It is my money and
>> I earned it.  I look forward to acquiring more money in the future.  Your
>> that should be encouraged and not denied.  My point was that you should make
>> sure you are following the tenets of your own religion before you condemn mine.
>
>Well, I pray that God continues to meet you financial needs.  Maybe in the
>midst of your prosperous life, you will share also with others.
>
	Your god ain't paying my bills!  He isn't sweating his ass to make ends
meet.  I AM the sole person responsible for my financial well-being.  As for
sharing with others, I didn't say I don't.  I believe in charity.  I don't
believe in christians making arbitrary judgements on how much I should give to
be "saved".  When was the last time you offered food to a homeless person?  Or
donated time to the handicapped?  I think they'd rather have concrete physical
aid than you praying to your sorry god for them!

>> D  I fight against bigotry and not your so-called holy spirit.  Tho I am
>> anti-christian, these are my religious beliefs and I am intelligent enough
>> I may argue doctrine endlessly, I see no problem with being friends with someone
>> of a diametrically opposed religion.  I'm not on any crusade to eliminate
>> christianity.  Hell, Satanism and christianity need each other.     
>
>Good.  I'm glad you can think and reason.  We need more people in the world
>that have that ability (it seems the world lacks thinking humans).  I disagree
>that satanism and Christianity need each other.  There would be less people to
>convince that Christ is the way if there were no satanist, and that would make
>our job as ministers a lot easier.  I don't have many friends that aren't
>Christians, but the ones that I do have that aren't Christians don't drag me
>down from my faith.
>
	Indeed, the world lacks free-thinkers.  You are a prime example.  If
there were no Satanism, who would you blame the evils of the world on?  As long
as christianity has existed, there have been one or more groups that the 
christian masses have targeted as evil.  I wonder why you don't have many 
friends who are non-christian.  With your close-minded, bigoted viewpoint, it's
a wonder you have any friends.  I guess fools of a feather flock together.  I,
however, have friends of all faiths, and tho I may disagree with their religiousbeliefs, I don't hold their ideals against them.  I don't try to convert them
or tell them they'll burn in some fictional hell.

>>>
>>>Feel free to write me about the material I wrote above.  Especially Raymond
>>>Rich.
>>>
>>>Evan Marshall
>>>marshall1198@iscsvax.uni.edu
>>>
>>>Proverbs 4:2 "I give you sound learning,
>>>                so do not forsake my teaching."
>> 
>> "It is far better to be feared than to be loved." ---  Machiavelli
>> 
>> 					Raymond H. Rich
>
>How about reverently respected and loved, the way God wants to be. -- Evan
>
	OK.  Where'd the expressions "god-fearing" and "wrath of god" come
from?  Isn't the purpose of confession to avoid god's wrath in the afterlife?
Keep on grovelling.

>Evan Marshall
>marshall1198@iscsvax.uni.edu
>
>"They say that God is oh so tasteless,
>        but they've never tasted Him.
> Taste and see that the Lord is good.
>        Taste and see, He's so good for you."
>                                --- Newsboys

"Never scared of the things men fear.
 Never easy, never clean,
 To be a Beast among human sheep."
				----- Glenn Danzig

						Raymond H. Rich