From: stoesser@i31s21.ira.uka.de (Achim Stoesser)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: God's Family Values
Date: 19 Aug 1992 13:05:34 GMT
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, FRG
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: i31s21.ira.uka.de

In article <1992Aug17.194252.2202228@locus.com>, judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer) writes:
|> In article <16j8joINN8lc@iraul1.ira.uka.de> stoesser@i31s22.ira.uka.de (Achim Stoesser) writes:
|> >In article <1992Aug14.172751.24678@pony.Ingres.COM>, dan@Ingres.COM (Daniel J. Dick) writes:
|> >...
|> >|> Well, I'd say these christians are there but not in the news.  Anyone want
|> >|> to take a guess why???  If you want the authoritative source-book on
|> >|> christianity for a true and honest view of what christianity is and is not,
|> >|> go straight to the Bible. 
|> >
|> >Agreed, that's a good start.  Another good idea is to get an encyclopaedia and
|> >to look up "[children's (*)] crusade,", "inquisition," "index librorum 
|> >prohibitorum," "Giordano Bruno," "Opus Dei," "witch," etc.
|> >
|> 
|> Of course, no Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Pagans, etc. have EVER oppressed or
|> tried to dominate others in the world.  Nope, in the history of ALL mankind
|> only Christians behave that way.  Yeah, right.

Naw, wrong. Any kind of superstition, be it gods, astrology, faith healing,
or Santa Claus, causes harm. Some more, some less. One of the reasons why I'm 
an atheist.

|> >                              The Bible teaches that many things are sin and
|> >|> teaches people to warn others, but it says nothing to indicate that people
|> >|> are to go out and hate, kill, and bash one another.  Refusing to support
|> >|> is not bashing.  Prefering is not bashing.  
|> >
|> >Oops, what bibles do you have? Mine say (among others) that homosexuals,
|> >witches (Ex 22:18 / Lev 20:13), and children (*) who disobey their parents
|> >(Deut 21:18--21, Ex 21:17, Lev 20:9, Mt 15:4) have to be killed.
|> >
|> 
|> Well, Exodus, Leviticus, and Deutoronomy is all Old Testament.  So here you

Well, Exodus, Leviticus, and Deutoronomy is all in the Bible. So here we have
to blame Jews, Christians, Muslims, and anybody else who uses one or the other
version of this collection.

|> have to blame the Jews.  Anyway you look at it, Christianity evolved from
|> Judaism.  Jesus was Jewish.  This is "the old law" which most Christians believe
|> they are no longer held to 
...

So why did they teach all the Adam & Eve, flood, Abraham, Moses, 10 Commandments,
etc. stuff in _Catholic_ religious "education"? Aren't Catholics a Christioan
sect, but a Jewish one [I'd say, both, but that's another point]?

                But you mention Matthew, so I have to look this one
|> up.  Once again, we have an accurate truth spoken by Jesus.  "For God said,
|> 'Honor your father and your mother,' and 'Woever speaks evil of father or
|> mother must surely die.'" 
...

How about "If you don't hate ... your children, you cannot be one of my 
disciples." [Jesus]

...
                                                     In that case, don't
|> forget to include the Muslims, because they are also based on the Old Testament,
|> believed Jesus was a prophet (just not THE prophet) etc.  And now you have
|> rejected Judaism, Christianity, and Muslim.  Okay, as long as that's what you're
|> doing I have no problem with it. 

Yes, that's exactly what I do. My sig clearly states that I'm atheist.
                                    
                                     But if you're going to accept Judaism and
|> reject Christianity based on the Old Testament, then you're not going to have
|> much chance of winning the logic side of your argument.
|> 
|> >|> If you want to find a real hypocrite, or a real biggot, or a real hateful
|> >|> bashing person, don't go looking for them in the church!  Keep in mind that
|> >|> the devil places his hypocrites inside the church to give the hypocrites
|> >|> outside someone to point their fingers at!
|> >
|> >Okay, that beats me. So the atrocities and immoralities of, say, Christians,
|> >are the work of Satan. Priests abusing children (*), for example.
|> 
|> YES!  They are the work of evil in mankind.  To coin a phrase from an earlier
|> post, "You're not trying to insinuate that ONLY priests abuse children, are
|> you?"

No, but the point is that these children are abused _because_ of religion. Two
examples (I could give you an arbitrary number of other examples):

1) A priest who teaches religion in a school beats the kids. He believes in
punishment (paradise, flood, Sodom & Gomora[sp?], hell[NT!] etc.). Would
you call this a coincidence? (Happened some weeks ago 20 miles from here.)

2) A priest rapes children and tells them "I'm the Saviour, if you don't do
it or if you tell anybody you will go to hell." This would not have happened to
atheistic children, because they don't believe such nonsense. (Happened some
years ago in Germany.)

...

Yes, there are other causes of evil than religion. There are also other causes
of cancer than smoking -- does this make it a good idea to smoke in the presence
of children?
                                                                 Achim
______________________________________________________________________

I'm an anarchist, atheist, pacifist, and vegetarian.  Several thousand
years ago our ancestors thought that despotic chieftains, thunder gods,
tribal feuds, and cannibalism were good ideas.  Any similarity with
living persons is merely coincidental.