HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Brian Dorsett (was Re: Who are these new Pirates ?)
Date: 18 Dec 92 17:10:21 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

In article <1992Dec17.204828.19676@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> akamholz@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Andrew E Kamholz) writes:
>Well, I suppose you are right. If he has the talent and the health, there's
>no reason, though, that he couldn't still be considered a prospect.

Ballplayers hit their peak around 27-29.  If a player hasn't shown major
league ability by age 32, he's extremely unlikely to ever show major league
ability.  32 year old players are simply not prospects.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: sfh@po.CWRU.Edu (Steven F. Hubbard)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Dave TWINfield!!
Date: 18 Dec 1992 17:36:53 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: sfh@po.CWRU.Edu (Steven F. Hubbard)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, shari@rosevax.rosemount.com (Shari Nelson) says:

>
>
>Now if we could just get a left handed 3rd baseman, and another lefty starting
>pitcher, we'll really be set!!

   What do you need a left handed 3rd baseman for?  Pags is left handed.  Isn't
he still around?  If he's not hurt, he could turn in a season like '91.



SfH
-- 
Steven F. Hubbard                ** "You can't squeeze water out of a rock
Case Western Reserve University  **      or a turnip, or whatever." 
Department of Physics            **  
Cleveland, OH 44106              **  -- John Madden
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mike@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Michael Chen)
Subject: Re: KEY SIGNS WITH YANKEES
Reply-To: mike@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Michael Chen)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:49:36 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.090143.4643@spcvxb.spc.edu> 5checki_m@spcvxb.spc.edu writes:
>
>After waking up this morning, I saw that Toronto Blue Jays Pitcher Jimmy Key 
>signed a 4 year, 18 million dollar deal with the New York Yankees.  This shores 
>up the Yankee rotation, and gives them three quality starting pitchers. Now if 
>they could only get another, and obtain Joe Orsulak via free agency, might we 
>be talking about a contender.  Comments are welcome!!!!!



Key's contract called for 17 million over 4 years.  This definitely
improves their rotation.  So, as of now, their final starting rotation
stands as:
Abbott
Perez
Key
Militello
Wickman/Hitchcock/Kaminiecki

The possibility of three lefties sounds intriguing.
As for getting another quality starter, don't think any quality
starter is left out there as a free agent, and not too many available
via free agency.  There are talks of the Yanks pursuing Ron Darling,
but I would rather see the Yanks give the opportunity to either
Wickman or Hitchcock to see what they can do.

As for Joe Orsulak...my question is WHY?

-Mike
/mike@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: doctor8@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Jason Abner Miller)
Subject: Re: All-Henderson Team
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:57:00 GMT

In article <15DEC92.03193833@vax.clarku.edu>, hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes...
> 
>Presenting:
> 
>*The Clan Henderson* 
>Motto: "Sola virtus nobilitat" (Hit 'em where they ain't)
> 
>Dave Henderson
>Ken Henderson
>Rickey Henderson
>Steve Henderson
>Bernie Henderson (0-1 in 1921)
>Bill Henderson (0-0 in 1930)
>Ed Henderson (1-1 in 1914)
>Hardie Henderson (81-121 from 1883-'88)
>Joe Henderson (3-2 from 1974-'77)
> 
>On the mound:  my man Hardie!!  81 Wins!  I bet he had great
>muttonchops.
> 
>The other pitchers would have to draw straws to see who played
>where in the infield.  The odd-outfielder-out (can't decide who
>that is -- Ken? Dave? Stevie?) at first or third.  And of course I
>would be the owner, sitting in my field box at every home game
>accompanied by my lovable pet wildebeest, Hendu, who would be
>specially trained to shit on the field during batting practice.
> 
>Our opponents in the All-Name League:  The Smith Brothers, The
>James Gang, The Jolly Millers, The Vodka Collins (well, maybe the
             ^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^
>League wouldn't approve of that name), The Fabulous Baker Boys...
>there must be more...?

	Heather, I must object to this pitiful excuse for a name.  The
"JOLLY" Millers?  YUCK!  We Millers are many things but jolly isn't one
of them!  And what kind of professional name is that?  Jolly?  Well, maybe
you need some background info on the history of Millers in pro-ball.
	Keith Miller?
Not a very illustrious history.  Our manager, of course, is Miller Huggins.
We can field a 2b/3b/LF (that last one in Kansas City only), and that's 
about it.  Not a very "jolly" franchise.
	So, assuming I can scrape up the rest of the insignificant Millers
in major league baseball, we'd have to be called "The Mighty Millers",
or the "Fighting Millers" or the "Flying Millers" or something ... I'll
get back to you once our pitchers and catchers report for spring training...

>Heather
>HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason A. Miller				|		Kill Tanana!
==============================================================================
"doctor8@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu"		|		"some doctor guy"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Maynard Ex Ante
Date: 18 Dec 92 20:03:17 GMT
Organization: Somewhere in Hoboken

b ythe way, roger, for the past 10 years i've invested in baseball 
 cards, which are generally influenced by 1) the player's city and
 2) the player's on-field performance.

and i've been incredibly successful ignoring what the scouts say
 and going 90-95% strictly by the numbers.

for an interesting article, read unde rthe orioles comments in 
 the 1992 bill james baseball book.  quite informative.
- bob gaj
From: lbr@holos0.uucp (Len Reed)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: NUMBER 24
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:19:19 GMT
Organization: Holos Software, Inc.

In article <20004@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> itlm013@george.ucdavis.edu (Captain Caveman) writes:

>1)  Willie Mays was dissappointed when the Giants moved from Brooklyn
>to San Francisco because "he just wasn't appreciated as much in SF."

Gee, I don't remember Willie's being too popular in Brooklyn, either. :-)

>Get off this idea that baseball players of even a few years ago were
>better, in every way, to the ones today.  It just ain't true.

Agreed.

>What is the big deal about retiring someone's number?  It shows respect
>for the player, but it's more the act of retirement, than the prolonged
>retirement itself, that is important.

Well, the act won't mean much if it's undone too many times.  Consider,
for example, how little it means when George Foreman retires.

>I think that Bonds is every bit
>the player Mays was - both were top of the heap.  

Well, I don't think Barry Bonds is every bit the player that Mays was.
Willie Mays hit 660 home runs.  Some claim that Willie Mays was the
greatest ever to play the game.  (I would dispute that.)

Barry Bonds may be the best right now, but that doesn't necessarily
put him in Mays' class.  This is not to say that baseball is worse now
than in the "good ol' days."  It just says that some eras don't have
a Willie Mays, or a Ted Williams, or a Babe Ruth.  You seem to be
arguing that anyone who is the best player at a given time is at the
pinnacle of the game.  I disagree.  The Mike Schmidt of the early
1980s was not a Babe Ruth.

All of this is irrelevant to un-retiring Mays' number.  Willie is Bonds'
godfather, and for all I know Mays considers it an honor for Bonds to
wear his number.  Short of such a special situation and approval of the
player (here Mays) I would consider it insulting to un-retire any number.  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Blue Jays-Gillick
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:35:14 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.075240.8404@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
>In article <1992Dec16.212155.3280@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec16.164157.16703@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>
>>>I agree with you that the most important thing a manager does is manage the
>>>players.  I find it interesting that Leyland gets (deserved) recognition
>>>for his handling of players, and is generally regarded as a good manager
>>>for it, despite his in-game strategies and batting orders, while Gaston
>>>doesn't.
>
>>LaRussa and Leyland are white...Cito Gaston and Felipe Alou are not...
>>some sportwriters who write about baseball and vote for manager of the
>>year have Marge Schott disease.
>
>I'm certainly not about to disagree with the sentiment expressed about
>mediots, but I think these are poor examples.
>
>There are *good* reasons to choose LaRussa over Gaston, like the fact
>that at least LaRussa has read enough of the rulebook to understand the
>concept of "pinch-hitters" and seems to demonstrate a basic knowledge of
>role-players and OBP.  (Not OBP, per se, but he seems to use people like
>Blankenship and Browne and Ready, when all they really give a team is
>walks, compared to other managers who would let these people sit on the
>bench because of the things they *don't* do.)
>

This coming year will be an interesting test for Gaston as the team
he is being given by Gillick is going to call for a more "activist"
manager.  For the last four years, Cito may have been more right than
wrong in sending the same nine players out there all the time, keeping
his regulars happy, and waiting for the 3-run home run...he certainly
didn't over-manage, and even if it was sometimes perhaps a bit
frustrating seeing him be seemingly too passive, the won-lost record
over an extended period was pretty good.

Just by batting Devon White leadoff, he essentially thumbs his nose
at the "experts"...I think he initially did it to build Devo's
confidence back up after his bad year with the Angels, and then just
stuck with the decision.  He managed extremely well in the post-season
this year...or at least held his own against Larussa, and really 
out-managed Cox...it will be interesting to see what he does with
the new Jays.

Gerald
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: king@ssvax.gte.com (Larry King)
Subject: Re: Has Tom Henke signed with the Red Sox?
Organization: GTE/SCSD
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:49:51 GMT

Sean C. Sullivan (sullis@aix.rpi.edu) wrote:
: 
: Has Tom Henke "officially" signed with the Red Sox?
: 
: I don't think he has.
: What is the holdup?
: Is he talking with other teams?
: 
: -- 
: # Sean C. Sullivan (sullis@rpi.edu) | R.P.I. | DISCLAIMER:  Not!   #
: # (AFS home directory:  /afs/rpi.edu/home/95/sullis)               #
: # "Holy mother of God, what is Lou Gorman smoking?" == Dave Kirsch #

Apparently Henke is also talking with KC and Texas.  The Red Sox have
made the biggest offer but he still insists on talking to others.
Apparently if they lose Henke they are going to go after Russel, if they
lose Russel, who knows.  WEEI radio said this morning that if they were
to lose Henke and Russell that they should bring back Bob Stanley.  Him
and Dawson could remember the good days.

It is a wait and see situation.
 
--
Larry King
GTE Government Systems, Needham, MA    		(617) 455-3384 
E-Mail : king@ssvax.gte.com
From: G.R.Price@cm.cf.ac.uk (G R Price)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Wade Boggs
Keywords: Hope he doesnt resign with Boston
Date: 16 Dec 92 12:40:15 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College of Cardiff, Cardiff, WALES, UK.

Has anybody heard anything about Boggs' current situation.
I heard the Sox were not offering him arbitration (?), is he talking to
anyone?

Gwyn
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ddsokol@unix.amherst.edu (D. DANIEL SOKOL)
Subject: Best playes of All Time
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 15:51:54 GMT

So that we all don't get bored waiting for spring training to start, I
propose starting best of All Time lists to keep some sort of baseball
discussion going.

Here's my team:

C Gaby Harnett
1B Lou Gehrig
2B Rogers Hornsby
SS Honus Wagner
3B Mike Schmidt
OF Ty Cobb
OF Ted Williams
OF Babe Ruth

The bench:
C Bill Dickey
1B Hank Greenberg
1B Jimmie Fox
2B Jackie Robinson
2B Rod Carew
3B George Brett
OF Joe DiMaggio
OF Mickey Mantle
OF Willie Mays
OF Hank Aaron

The Staff:
SP Sandy Koufax
SP Bob Feller
SP Rube Wadell
SP Nolan Ryan
SP Walter Johnson
RP Dennis Eckersly
RP Rich Gossage

So what do you all think of this
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Blue Jays-Gillick
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 03:14:14 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.043952.11594@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>
>Right on Pat!  Let's rebuild!  And when the jays go down the toilet this
>year all the stathead dorks in this group will be calling for Cito's head.

Huh?  What does the success or failure of the Blue Jays have to do
with this?  Cito is a stupid manager whether or not the Blue Jays have
a good team.  Of course he does manage to keep the team happy, even if
he has no idea of how to make out a lineup card or pinch hit.  I guess
brains isn't everything...

The only difference is that if the Jays lose, the mediots will join us
statheads in slamming Cito.

-Valentine
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: alee@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Albert J Lee)
Subject: Rotisserie/Fantasy Baseball stats
Summary: Where to find stat ftp sites
Keywords: baseball,rotisserie,fantasy,stats,ftp
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:05:56 GMT

I was just wondering if someone could help me out...

     Is there an ftp site or free network I can access during the baseball 
season which weekly updates season statistics on all Major League players for 
Rotisserie/Fantasy league purposes ???

     Thanks!

Albert (alee@magnusug.acs.ohio-state.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: Greatest Players by team
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 05:28:08 GMT

In <1992Dec10.165226.17388@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) says:

>In article <9DEC199219185467@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu> doctor8@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Jason Abner Miller) writes:

>>	Now this, quite simply, is not a question that can be answered
>>by looking at stats.  I don't have Traynor's career numbers in front
>>of me, but I remember reading about him as I grew up, hearing that
>>he was supposed to have been the greatest third baseman of his day.
>>	Back when he played, walks were not as highly valued as they are
>>now - the object was simply to hit the ball and drive in runners (this
>>being in the dead ball era, before the advent of Babe Ruth).

>Traynor's first season in the majors was 1920, the year Babe Ruth hit 54
>homers.  He did *not* play during the dead ball era.

Sherri, if you keep bringing up facts, you're going to ruin all of Jason's
posts.  :)

Incidentally, I just want to take this opportunity to say to Roland
Hemond: HAROLD REYNOLDS?  YOU WERE LOOKING AT LOU WHITAKER AND ENDED UP
WITH HAROLD REYNOLDS?  Been talking to Lou Gorman too much?

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | Is it too early to start making predictions for 1993?
niepornt@phoenix.    | Probably, but that never stopped me before.
   princeton.edu     | ALE: Baltimore ALW: Chicago NLE: Montreal NLW: Atlanta
Baltimore Orioles 93 | AL MVP: Cal Ripken  AL Cy Young: Mike Mussina
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Caveat Re:Brave "awesome" pitching staff
Date: 13 Dec 92 17:13:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: midway.1992Dec13.171328.11653
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <CFS=4YB@engin.umich.edu> dorian@engin.umich.edu (Young W Kim) writes:
>I've been reading so much of late about how GREAT brave's pitching staff is
>going to be next year. Well, I'd like to advice caution as far as predicting
>the success of that staff. First of all, I seem to recall that there was an
>article in McThang about the year_after affect for cy young award winners.

Well, when you give the Cy Young to Steve Stone or Bob Welch, you're bound
to see a decline.

Also, when you give the Cy Young to Guidry's 25-3 or Clemens's 24-4 season,
they're great pitchers, but they're not going to match that.

I don't see any problem in assuming that Maddux will post a 2.8 ERA next year,
probably lower because he gets to face the Cubs, Marlins, and Rockies instead
of the Braves.

>Admitted that Glavine seemed to have escaped that after his cy young campaign,
>but you gotta wonder about Maddux. There is also the matter of him going from
>a temproray pitcher friendly park, Wrigley(before I get flamed for this, please
>check Last years' numbers, not last Few year's trend) to a hitter's park,
>     ^^^^^^^^^^^^    	       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Fulton County Stadium. 

Even if you check the last few year's trend, Maddux has been sensational,
but underrated because he plays for the Cubs in Wrigley.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: Who here is Baysian?
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:54:12 GMT

In <1992Dec17.122915.1@uwovax.uwo.ca> jpalmer@uwovax.uwo.ca (The Econoclast) writes:

>Does anyone reading this newsgroup, including Roger Maynard, really
>have flat priors about the outcome of the 1993 season?

Alfredo would like a third ring.  Has he signed on with anyone yet?

season's greetings and all that crap...

rm

-- 
roger maynard
maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Daryl Boston released?
Date: 13 Dec 92 19:58:54 GMT
Organization: CSE Dept., UC San Diego



I heard that Boston is a free agent and the Mets either didn't offer
arbitration or released him.  This was on the radio while I was not
paying a lot of attention, so clarification would be appreciated.
I think he has enough talent to play OF full time; certainly should
play over Coleman.  Comments?

Dave

-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Blue Jays-Gillick
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:11:35 GMT

In article <881@blue.cis.pitt.edu> genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:
>Thus spake niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent):
>>
>>Actually, while I agree with the sentiment, I think you chose a bad
>>example.  I think the Mets are the perfect example of a team which a
>>good manager *could* help win.
>
>Really?  I think the Mets have too many holes.  Now the *Orioles*, on the
>other hand, are just one real manager away from contention.

Well, they contended last year too...  The Orioles need some stability
at 1B/DH and in RF.  You wouldn't think this would be a problem with
Chito Martinez, Sam Horn, Glenn Davis, and Randy Milligan hanging
around.  None of them are great, but you would think that the four of
them could handle the problem.  Possibly platoon Horn and Davis?  Rest
Milligan when he gets into a slump?  Whatever.

The O's also need a second baseman.  Harold Reynolds is not the
answer.

But most of all, the Orioles need *five* starters.  They only have
three and a half (Mussina, Rhodes, McDonald, and Sutcliffe).  Key
would have fit in nicely here.  Any hope from the farm?  I doubt
Milacki is the answer.

You might be right.  A top-notch manager might be able to turn the
team around.

-Valentine
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: stlouis@unixg.ubc.ca (Phill St. Louis)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: What did Winfield say in Sat. Night News confernce?
Date: 14 Dec 1992 18:18:26 GMT
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca

Dave Winfield said that he has received offers from other teams, but was
holding off signing until he could come to Toronto to talk to the Jays
front office.  He has now done it and knows that he will not be playing in
Toronto in 1993.

He said that he had had no plans to be switching teams; he was expecting to
be with Toronto.  He said there was almost no negotiating, he has no hard
feelings and that it was a business move.  There was disappointment.

He was sorry to be not returning.  He said all of these things.  What I did
not hear him say on the TSN news, but was being reported was that he felt like
he was used as a hired gun.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball