HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ronaldd@cbnewse.cb.att.com (ronald.h.davis)
Subject: Re: What does Arthur Hu mean to *me*
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:33:58 GMT

In article <4168@randvax.rand.org> edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall) writes:
>In article <1993Jan8.205613.568@cbnewse.cb.att.com> ronaldd@cbnewse.cb.att.com (ronald.h.davis) writes:
>> . . . .
>>my attitude is that after as much racist stuff [against black people] that you
>>see from japanese/nisei individuals and/or from japan (including government
>>officials) i am *totally* unsympathetic when i hear cries of racism against
>>japanese people by white people.  my tendency is to think:  "yeah, they're ones
>>to talk..."
>
>some are pretty much free of prejudice.  Most Nisei are in their 60's and
>70's, so this is pretty much the status quo for that generation (not that
>I'm happy about it).  Their kids, the Sansei, seem considerably less
>racist on average--I'm tempted to say less than whites of the same age
>group, but I don't think I can generalize quite that much solely from
>personal experience.  And I certainly think you've over-generalized from
>yours...
>
i think you should have read my post a bit more closely, unless you're just
making this statement for its effect.  i believe i have tried to avoid making
general statements under the pretext that they held true for *all* asian-
americans and i would think you would figure that out from reading them.

i might add, however, that i don't agree with *your* generalization of later
generation japanese-americans...

-- 
  __  ______  __  / __/ |       at&t bell laboratories, naperville il, usa
_/ (_(_) / (_(_/_/_(_/  .       ronald@iexist.att.com / att!iexist!ronald
"if you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes" -- edmund wilson
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: demetri@cgrg.ohio-state.edu 
Subject: family of a white girlfriend
Organization: OSU Advanced Computing Center for the Arts and Design
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 03:37:33 GMT

Okay, I stand corrected, you merely said "you won't get that KIND of love
from the family of a white girlfriend".  I have no idea how to respond to
that.  The original post (which I have to admit I do not have in front of
me) seemed to be suggesting that this was an advantage of having a Black
girlfriend...and at the same time suggested that there was something
*lacking* from an interracial relationship.  I just do not appreciate the
suggestion that an interracial relationship is lesser in some respect.
Some people may feel that they can only be TRULY understood and loved by
someone of their own group.  But my husband and I connect on MANY levels
and he is hardly hurting for lack of that *special* kind of love that my
family cannot give him.  Sorry if that sounded bitchy, but just as many of
the people who responded to Chaney feel that it is important to support
their own and stick together, as part of an interracial family, I defend
*my* own.   
                                     Renee
From: johnson@whitewater.chem.wisc.edu (Art Johnson)
Subject: Re: What A White Person Learned in College About AfAm Culture
Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, UW-Madison
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 18:43:10 GMT

> In article <1992Dec31.173840.62373@cc.usu.edu> slzm9@cc.usu.edu writes:
> 
> # >> Prejudice is a personal, not societal matter isn't it?
> #
> #    No. As far as I know Malcolm X was one of the first African
> # Americans to state this publicly. In his autobiography he discusses
> # why individual white people may be moral people exhibiting little
> # racial bias. But institutions in America and group behavior seems
> # to elicit racist actions from even upstanding members of the white
> # community. As I recall he did not delve deply into "why" this was
> # occurring he merely observed that it did happen.
> #
> #    Can anyone out there tell me why this happens, or someone  that
> # has looked into it?

     I don't think that there's anything particularly mysterious about the  
"why". One has only to examine the standard of value of these "upstanding  
members of the white community", namely, that peace is more important than  
justice. Consequently, they place their own personal immediate material  
advantage and social position above that of social equity/"fairness". So,  
when the "group" threatens or intimidates them over the issue of treating  
everyone fairly, they cast aside social equity/"fairness", because, for  
them, it is a lesser value. In other words, these "upstanding" white folks  
hold the irrational as their standard of value, and consequently, are very  
susceptible to being intimidated into conformity by the "group". From whom  
did they learn this standard? Most likely from the "group" (which may  
include their families, relatives, teachers, media, etc.) when they were  
growing up. Changing these people's outlook so that they would have the  
spine to stand up to the "group" would involve changing the fundamental  
premises upon which their lives are based, e.g. that living a _peaceful_  
life is more important than living a _virtuous_ life, and that is _very_  
difficult to do.

Arthur Johnson
johnson@whitewater.chem.wisc.edu
From: glovercj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: The Black Man's Burden.
Date: 12 Jan 93 18:38:58 GMT
Organization: Drexel University

In article <C0p4nH.5LK@panix.com> mukasa@panix.com (Michael K Mukasa) writes:
>Time and time again we (Africans) have been warned about our impending
>"destruction" be it social, political or economic. The fact that our
>situation has gone from bad to worse shows IMO not that we do not hear the
>messages but that we do not publically act or speak out about our plight.
>Many will disagree but I will use THIS forum as a prime example.  Many
>important and relevant discussions are started here and become heated
>sometimes and even side tracked, but it seems to me that apart from those
>posting from south Africa, it is always the half dozen or so people airing
>their views on Africa's problems.
>At first I thought there were very few (not more than 20) Africans who
>read the posts or who had access to the net.  Then through e-mail i
>started getting mail and found out there are "nets" for different African
>communities, established from contacts here.
>By many Africans keeping quiet over OUR problems they, in effect,
>perpetuate the problems. 
>If not here, where??  If not now, When??  If not YOU, who??
>
>
>>What value is the intellectual achievement of any of us if we do not
>>critically review our own history for our enlightenment and insight.
>>I know that you all will not dissappoint as far as saying what needs to
>>be said.  I also know that there are forces out there that would rather
>>have us not be discussing this issue of import to our survival.
>
>Kiggundu
>

You're right the time is now, the place is everywhere, and the people are
everyone. It is my belief that Africans & particulary African-Americans forget
entirely too fast about the injustices commited against us, so they continue to
happen. In my opinion, if people stop being passive and become pro-active, then
others will not be able to pass us by. We must discuss, advocate, and die for
the liberation of Africans everywhere. Everyone must have that meantality. My
personal belief is that since I am an African-American, I must prepare
African-Americans & Africans in America first, so that we as a people will
branch out, collectively.
Chad J Glover
glovercj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu      
Drexel University Software Testing Lab
"Give a Man a Fish, you Feed him for a Day,
Teach a man to Fish, you Feed him for a Lifetime."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Why we go for non-black women
Date: 6 Jan 93 21:45:23 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1993Jan6.161113.9320@csus.edu> chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney) writes:
>
>And furthermore, the deciding point in WW-II, besides the destruction
>of the Nazis in Germany, was the Atom Bomb. Had we dropped that on
>Hitler as well, he could have 10 million soldiers and it would not
>matter. Conversely, if he had obtained the bomb first, we could have
>attacked with 30 million troops, only to be feeding them to a nuclear
>fire. 
>
>  --Steve Chaney: Founder, Borg Operating Space Systems, Revision 2.5--


As easy as it is to say this, it is appropriate to remember that the bomb was 
created by German scientists (as is most other science....)
and was very nearly made in Germany before it was made in America.




makala


Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: wayneh@microsoft.com (Wayne Hazle)
Subject: Re: Why we go for non-black women:
Date: 07 Jan 93 22:21:20 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Distribution: usa

let me add another two or three cents to this whole debate.

There is definetly too much of a tendency within the Black community to
ostracize anyone who doesn't fit into the tiny little mold that 'the 
Black priesthood' has set up. This is a small fanatical group that tries
to dictate how you should dress, walk, the music you listen to, the food
you eat, who you date, what you should read, what you should watch, etc.
If you miss any of these laws, you can be accused of "not really being 
Black". This is a shame, because African-Americans are really a diverse 
people and should not pigeonhole themselves. 

As a young Af-Am male, I know my Black history, I listen to Luther, Vesta,
Freddie Jackson, etc. I tutor trouble kids, as well as many other services
in the Black community, and of course I treasure the Black woman.
Notheless, I have had to listen to snide remarks or even lectures from my
fellow brothers or sisters if I talk about going to a Rolling Stones concert
(or Grateful Dead, Guns N Roses, etc.), or because of certain clothes I wear,
or people I hang out with.  

So Stephen maybe I can understand some of the anger you may feel when being
lectured by self-righteous people.  Nevertheless, as I think others have 
conveyed, your post went beyond what is reasonable.

---
To some extent I definetly understand how some sisters feel when they see
a Black male "sporting around their White woman". Without a doubt many 
Black males view it as a status symbol & their ultimate acheivment. And
seem all too ready to leave Blakc women behind, not for the the reasons you
listed, but simply because they find the White standard of beauty better.

While this doesn't give some foaming at the mouth fanatic the right to
accost you, a certain feeling of betrayal is understandable.

----more later....

Microsoft Rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Why we go for non-black women
Date: 12 Jan 93 18:39:40 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <106762@bu.edu> shimkevi@acs.bu.edu (Sergey Shimkevich) writes:
>
>So when the USSR was propping up dictators and supplying free weapons (the
>total cost is about 150 billion, if I remember correctly), this is called
>liberation?

Huh, such dictators as Pres Mobutu Sese Seko, and Jean Bedel Bokasa. 
Funny, I thought F-5s, Howitzers, and M-16s were American weapons. Ironi
cally, the morally upright US was missing from the ranks of the progressive
and justified in all the wars of liberation in Africa.....

>Looking at ex-soviet countries like East Germany, Romania and Bulgaria
>with their horrible chemical/radioactive pollution,

Believe it or not, none of these countries is in Africa. And if you ask the
people of India, the only polution they have worried about comes from Union
Carbide. Or ask the Indians of South America, or the Blacks of South Africa
how safe their mines are. Remember that America has a big stake in them....
Better still, ask the maquiladoras of Mexico how pleasant and safe the cond
itions are that American Industry has colluded in submitting them to.

 I fail to see why
>the fate of Africa would have been any different if it fell completely
>under the Soviet rule.

Lets see, Cuba has a higher literacy rate, lower rate for babies who die 
under five, and a longer life expectancy than any of the any other country
in both the American continents, including the US..... I would not mind
trading this for most of the conditions which obtain in many parts of Africa
today, even those that are vehemently surrogate to the west....

>BTW, when the war between Ethiopia and Somalia broke out, the Politburo had a
>hard time deciding which side to take. The result was that there were Soviet
>military advisers on both sides, each doing their job to the best of their
>ability. Not exactly the mark of liberators..

And how did the war breakout? and what was there to liberate? Funny, didn't
the USA supply weapons to both Iran and Iraq? How long did Reagan procrasti
nate before supporting Thatcher in the Falklands war? 
..In the circumstances that are more relevant tome, the USA supprts the white
South African govt, as it does Savimbi....without either compunction or pro
crustination... The problem is that you are trying to moralize the actions of
speculators and profiteers who stop at nothing to achieve their goals..

makala

.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.asian.american
From: epwong@nyx.cs.du.edu (Elliott Wong)
Subject: Re: What does Malcolm X mean to you
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 14:12:50 GMT

Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:

>Here's an open ended one - what does Malcolm x mean to you? 
>Is it a X cap and shirt? Is it dissing white people?

>To me, a conservative Asian American, it means a man who proves that 
>people can change for the better, and people who are destructive criminals
>don't have to live that way. He stands against crime and murder, and if
>every African America really followed X's advice, East Palo Alto wouldn't
>be the murder capital of America, or the the Bay Area's drive thru
>drug market. It seems sad that a man whose message was to study hard, work
>hard, and stay out of trouble seems to be the symbol of anything but that.

	At the bottom of which was a recognition of the spiritual
malaise of everyone, so the "solution" (if it can be termed that) is a
spiritual awakening.

	I was reading last night the Chuck Colson and Jack Eckerd
collaboration titled "Why America Doesn't Work" (basically written
from a conservative Christian approach). The recurring theme
throughout the book is that America has lost her spiritual moorings -
that relativism is norm and because of this, the work ethic has been lost.

	I'm not sure that Malcom X and Chuck Colson would see eye to
eye on most things but I am certain that they would see the need for
spiritual re-awakening in this country.

Elliott
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: demetri@cgrg.ohio-state.edu 
Subject: "family of white girlfriend" (was Excercise for Chaney)
Organization: OSU Advanced Computing Center for the Arts and Design
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 22:05:00 GMT

Darryle said "You're just not going to find that kind of love from the
family of a white girlfriend".  Bzzzzzzzzzt!  Now who's talking in sweeping
generalizations?  SOME families are rejecting, and may promote an "us
against the world" mentality.  On the other hand, my family does love my
Black husband, and they already love the child I am carrying.  Do not
speak about that which you do not know.

On the other hand, I do not approve of people rejecting a potential mate on
the basis of color, and that includes White people rejecting those who are
not White and Black people rejecting those who are not Black.

                          Renee (and family)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: cmort@NCoast.ORG (Christopher Morton)
Subject: Re: Let's Move MIM News Outta Here...
Reply-To: cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton)
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:38:13 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.african.american

As quoted from <13060064@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> by patm@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Pat Murphy):

> > I agree about posting one's actual thoughts.  My inclination, based on 
> > previous experience is that they are afraid of making the "movement" look bad
> > if they should (and they would) get the bad end of a debate.
> > 
> > Of course none of this stops OTHER people from discussing (and shredding) the
> > claims made therein.
> > 
> 		you got that right, brother ;-)

Have at it!  I always enjoy asking the uncomfortable questions.... :)

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------  

"Well whose opinions did you THINK these were...?" 
------------------------------------------------------------------  
Xref: sparky soc.culture.african.american:13648 soc.culture.african:7453
From: helfman@aero.org (Robert S. Helfman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Neo-Colonialism and Africans
Date: 8 Jan 1993 22:18:56 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aerospace.aero.org

In article <!-f=yGB@engin.umich.edu> Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu> writes:
>
>I do believe we occupied an European country until about 2 years ago.  Now that
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^                                    
>we left it, it appears as if it is going to repeat its history once again, and
>maybe  WW III is not that far away.  The vast mjority of our military money
>goes to containing the European threat.  
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^     

Oh Lord, yet another wet-behind-the-ears post-pubescent pundit gives 
the world a history lesson.

Our occupation of Germany ended in the 1940's. That was hardly 2 years ago.

A large part, but hardly the majority of our military budget goes to 
maintaining the Fifth and Seventh Corps, which were positioned to
counter a potential Soviet thrust into the flatlands of northern
Germany (the Fifth Corps) or through the Fulda Gap toward
Stuttgart (the Seventh Corps). Seventh Corps was moved, intact, to
handle Desert Storm. (It was, admittedly, amusing to see all that
dark German-forest-green-and-brown camouflage being repainted to
Schwartzkopf tan to make the equipment usable in desert conditions!
A truly vast quantity of paint was applied in record time.)

I don't know what Mr. Kamprath called the "European Threat". I hope
he was referring to the now-defunct Soviet Union. If, somehow, he
envisioned a threat from the European democracies, he surely has
a wild and warped view of geopolitics.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: jdf2@bnrgatebnr.ca (Jonathan D. Fletcher)
Subject: Re: What about non-black men for black?
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:00:57 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Bell-Northern Research @ RTP, NC

In article <1993Jan11.163420.17310@Princeton.EDU>, bvaughan@sheps.Princeton.EDU (Barbara Vaughan) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan8.233851.16741@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> xuyy@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
|> >I am a brother from the continent, as curious as ever about all the
|> >hullabaloo about brothers going for white girls. I'm wondering 
|> >whether there is as much fuss about white boys dating black girls.
|> >I also wonder why it (white boys dating black girls) does not 
|> >occur with as much frequency as the opposite.
|> >
|> Here is my theory (admittedly containing lots of generalizations):
|> 
|> Most men prefer submissive women.  The stereotypical feeling is that black
|> women are the least submissive of all women and Asian women are the most
|> submissive.  Therefore, black men date white women and white men date
|> Asian women in larger numbers than the reverse.  This leaves black women
|> and Asian men sitting at home on Saturday nights.  Maybe they should date
|> each other. 
|> 
|> Barbara Vaughan

My theory is that in America, black women are simply not viewed as attractive, 
period.  Occasionally, the media treats us to the an attractive dark-complexioned 
woman, but she is very exotic.  Make no mistake, we black males are programmed
from with a comflicting set of beauty values throughout our life.

J. D. Fletcher
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: dem2@pyuxd.uucp (Me)
Subject: Re: The Simpsons and what you should know.
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 22:57:17 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.203011.20899@netnews.noc.drexel.edu> 
glovercj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu writes:
>[stuff deleted]
>Now, I ask the question again, are the Simpsons really just a cartoon, or do
>the Simpsons describe something much greater?

IMHO, the Simpson's are a reflection of *American culture* -- take that
for what it's worth in deciding if the cartoon has a "hidden agenda".

I did hear reports/rumors a few years back that the characters 
were supposed to be Black, but FOX wouldn't allow it for fear of 
attacks from the NAACP (they felt Bart's poor attitude would be
[mis]interpreted as a statement about the behavior of Black male children).

	Darryle
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: sykes@donner.cc.bellcore.com (sykes,michael)
Subject: Re: separate but equal???
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 18:19:05 GMT

In article <1htk2mINNai2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cr614@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Monee C. Kidd) writes:
>
>In article #22610 of soc.culture.african.american, sawyer@utahep
>.uta.edu (Lee Sawyer) writes:
>
>>[note reference]
>> This is an extreme oversimplifacation of the La. desegregation
>>issue, and in fact as far as I know no one has mentioned the                    
>>fact that both Southern and Grambling had pretty good teams
>>this year.
>
>In the article I read, the football programs were mentioned. I
>think the two schools exist for different reasons, the same reasons
>we have Brigham Young and Yeshiva. I think HBCUs serve a 
>purpose, and though I don't attend one, many people might not 
>go to college were it not for an HBCU.
>-- 
Yo,

Maybe I'm missing something here but I have never heard of any HBC 
saying that it does not allow whites to attend. The whites CHOOSE to
go to the schools they attend. I think that the LA state government 
is full of sh*t personally. Grambling and Southern will probably loose
their identity in the years to come. I attended a HBC (Norfolk State U.)
just like EVERY member in my immeadiate family. (Hampton U & VA State U)
I will encourage my daughter to attend an HBC also. These places were the
ONLY places where our people could get an education years ago and they
need to be preserved.

Michael


-- 
Michael H. Sykes
Standard disclaimers apply
sykes@donner.cc.bellcore.com
"It was like that when I got here" - Homer J. Simpson