Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 23:13:36 EDT
From:         MKLINE%VDH.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Government & Christians
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              bstudy-l%utarlvm1.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU,
              ivcf-l%ubvm.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU

Subject: Government & Christians

    In this exciting issue: Should Christians get involved in Government?
Yes. What about those who say no? They are wrong.

    I added this because some may be more interested in this one than
some of these others. This was a topic that was pretty hot some time
back.



    Dr. Francis Schaeffer, Part 4, Distorted Reality.
                                                              (Feb 1982)
    Pat: I'm interested in action, and I think you've said and others
have said we have sort of a window of time, a window of opportunity with
a particular favorable senate and a president who shares basically our
concept of the way the world is. How do we avoid as Christians getting
enmeshed in what would be called reactionary Republicanism or liberal
Democratic programs and missing what God has. Is there a different way
for either of these two?

    FS: Yes. We have to understand what the enemy is. The enemy is this
other view of reality, that final reality is only material, or energy
shaped by pure chance. Now then, humanism built on that that man is the
center of all things. Now what we must fix in our minds as Christians, if
we're going to get anywhere in all of this, is that a conservative
humanist is no better than a liberal humanist. We've got to get down
there and not vote by labels.

    Now when we come to this we must then say indeed, through the
conservative swing in the last election, the 1980 election in the United
States, that we do have an open door that we haven't had for some years.
But we also must say we must see results from that. We mustn't settle for
mere words, and with all the economic pressure, indeed on this
administration, and there must be an improvement in the economy, and the
defense, and we must stand against the imperialistic Russian thrust. Yet,
never the less, if these issues such as abortion are not dealt with, and
we just let words, words, words come forth instead of action, the whole
battle's going to be lost.

    Pat: We got to go back a few years ago when the Christian consensus
pretty much governed this nation. How did we lose it? What has been wrong
with evangelicals, even up to the present day, that keeps them from
getting involved in any kind of thing like this?

    FS: I think a false view of spiritually, a platonic view of
spiritually that which follows philosopher Plato, Greek philosopher, but
certainly isn't Biblical. And that is that spiritually is shut up to a
small area of life, or you can say the soul is important, the body is not
important, would be a quick fix on the thing.

    What we must realize in this view, everything is worldly that isn't
in this little box of spiritually. Now, as I look at the Bible, this is
exactly 1000% backwards. There are certain sinful things that God tells
are sinful, and we ought to take those and set them aside, and then we
must acknowledge that we are sinners too, none of us are perfect, but
never the less, we must set them aside. And then, EVERYTHING ELSE IS
SPIRITUAL.

    Pat: Elaborate on that. Everything then in the world, because Jesus
has a plan and a world view and a purpose, He's not just God of the
Church, He's God of everything.

    FS: Absolutely! He made it, and one day, the wonder is, Jesus is
coming back and there's going to be the redemption of all things, as
Peter said immediately after Jesus' Ascension. And we're going to be
raised from the dead, Paul emphasizes that in I Corr. 15. If we're not
going to be raised from the dead, Christianity is a total failure, means
nothing. God is interested in the TOTALITY of life, art, music,
literature, but also the political life.

    So true spirituality means the Lordship of Christ in the totality of
life, and not just a small part of it.

    Pat: The liberal press, particularly, would try to keep conservative
Christians, if you will, or evangelicals out of political life and
there's this great pressure to make fun of you when you get quote "in
politics" and they don't think it should be and there are many Christians
who say "Yes" to the same thing. What do you say to them?

    FS: Well, they're wrong!

    Pat: Okay.... That settles that...? What do you do... Christians
should do what? Run for office? Vote? Register? Run for office? What
ought we to do?

    FS: Well, we ought to realize that in the view point of the
scripture, life is not divided up into water tight compartments, that all
of life should be lived for the Lordship of Christ. Now, what exact
portion each one of us should have is according to the Lord's leading for
us. So we cannot lay down rules for people. They must look to the Lord
directly to know.

    But the principle to lay down, if the rule to lay down,
is that Christians have a responsibility for the society in which they
live. We're to be the salt. We're to be the light. And I would say this
with absolute firmness. We are not in the mess we are in this country and
through out the world, especially think of the Reformation countries,
specifically the United States, we're not in the mess we're in because of
the humanist conspiracy.

    I think there is a humanist conspiracy. That's not the reason we're
in trouble. The reason we're in trouble is the church has not really
followed out the concept of the Lordship of Christ in the totality of
life in these last 80-40 years. And that being so, by our silence, by
refusing to be what God tells us to be, the light of this culture, and so
on, the salt of this culture, we are the ones responsible before God for
the mess we're in.

    Pat: Well now, in past revivals, Wesley for example, or maybe the
move in the 1850's with Moody and Finney and these great men, did that
result in some kind of social action?

    FS: I sometimes wonder if our evangelical leadership remembers our
heritage. It is true that the Great Awakening prior to the founding of
America, the Wesley Revival, the Whitfield Revival, the great revivals in
Scandinavia, they called for the salvation of individual souls, and
THOUSANDS were saved. We should be so thankful. But there wasn't a single
one of those that did not result in social conscienceness and social
action.

    And the Wall Street Journal as I quote in the Christian Manifesto
pointed out that it was the Great Awakening in America, that revival,
that lead to the preparation for the founding of this country. That's
what we've forgotten.

    Pat: And our institutions, all in a sense, flow out of revival, and
we must be a salt and a light to preserve them, to keep them going. If we
don't, we've failed them.

    FS: That's right and as Christians we need constant revival of
course, and the church needs constant revival. But I would always say
here's reformation and revival. They should never be put contrary to each
other. Reformation is the restoration of pure doctrine. It should always
lead to the restoration of the individual Christian's life in revival.
But it flows the other way, so called revival, and all kinds of talk
about the work of the Holy Spirit THAT DOES NOT LEAD to the Lordship of
Christ in the totality of life, including social action, something's
wrong along the way.

    Pat: Professor Rice in that clip we saw earlier said that "It's war
between the Christians and the humanists and I think we're going to win."
Do you want to give your prognosis on how it will come out?

    FS: People always say to me "Are you an optimist or a pessimist?" and
I'm an optimist in the sense that I believe in the United States we have
the greatest opportunity in the world, maybe the only opportunity at this
moment to turn it around. In that sense, I'm an optimist.

    If you ask me whether we're going to, it depends upon the Christians
whether they're willing to pay the price. in their own professions.
Whether they're willing to pay the price for Christ, to stand on the
cutting edge. It means the nurse being fired because she refuses to let
the little baby starve that the doctor says should starve to death in
infanticide.

    It means the lawyer. He shouldn't be a Christian lawyer just by
putting the Moody Monthly or something on his reading table as a
Christian magazine instead of secular ones. He ought to be out there
fighting these first amendment cases, fighting for freedom so that the
humanist state doesn't reach down into the Christian schools, forcing a
twist in the Christian curriculum, so molding it again to their humanist
views. He ought to be in there fighting in all these areas.

    The doctor ought to be willing not to have that position of an
obstetrician or a gynecologist in one of the great hospitals if he
refuses to perform abortions. You ought to pay the price for it, and most
of all maybe the pastors better get busy and pay the price of being
willing to upset their people who set there in their pews Sunday after
Sunday and they love the music and they love to say "Isn't it wonderful?"
And all the time they're going through this whole thing, they move out
after Sunday and do NOTHING into the culture that costs them anything...

End of section --------------------------------------------------------->

    This one spoke volumes as in many ways Francis was able to put into
words so much of what I have been trying to say. There's one more coming
and hopefully, I'll be able to get it done soon. Hope you all are
enjoying this. I get them done "tinkering" for about 1-3 hours. There's
the recording of what was said, typing it up, and the proof read which
after reviewing leaves a bit to be desired. Still, the message comes
across, I hope. Thanks to one and all who have sent me encouragement, it
helps as I sometimes feel plowed under from the extra load a working
covering for my boss who is not only Operations Manager, but also Acting
Director. This makes me Acting Operations Manager, and an acting
acting... Well, anyhow, I become quite an act... :-)


Maks
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