HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: verbit@brauer.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Boris Grebenschikov
Date: 19 Dec 92 05:13:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Dec19.001335.18691
Organization: Sozialistische Patienten Kollektiv

In article <LEONID.92Dec18185117@tuna.uchicago.edu> leonid@tuna.uchicago.edu (Leonid Andreev) writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.201637.18641@husc3.harvard.edu> verbit@brauer.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) writes:

>I'm so glad to meet such a true connoisseure of BG's oeuvre, like 
>you are, Mikhail.  
		   ( - thanks - MV)
>As for "Angel Vsenarodnogo Pokhmelja" song - you wrote, it's 
>written in 1982. Hmm. I always thought it's much older - 
>maybe even mid 70s. I even thought it's one of these earliest songs
>which were written not by BG, but by George Gunitsky - second
>godfather of Acquarium. ( Like, say, "Suita iz Russkih Narodnyh
>Pesen" ). Am I wrong?

	Well, in "Delo Mastera Bo" (the authorized 
	"complete" collection of Aquarium lyrics, fairly recent) 
	this song is marked by 1982, but there could
	be mistakes, as BG often does not know 
	when and who wrote some A. song nor which
	text was used. Anyway, this song is pretty similar to the
	Storozh Sergeev (Watchman Sergeev) chef d'oevre
	which was written also 1981-2.

	BTW, the recent "hit" by BG (not A. anymore),
	called "Pyatnadtsat' Bab" (Fifteen Women),
	is also written on lyrics by Gunitskii,
	as well as 3-4 songs from Treugol'nik (triangle)
	and 1-2 songs from Acoustica (Graf Garcia,
	Moi Muravei, Chto Luchshe Pena Ili Dom,
	what else?). I am not sure about Suita:
	which one you are talking about? If 
	one going like 
		"U povorota na Korostyliovo
		Ugryumyi starets zlobno biot klyukoi
		Uvyazshego v bolote krokodila
		A tot, glaza pod'yavshi k nebesam,
		Okrestnost' oglashaet khriplym stonom"

	it is also BG, as the book says.

>>   "Uzhe proshlo 7-oe noyabrya
>>   Zatikhli zvuki obshchego veselya
>>   No kto-to dvizhetsya krugami
>>   Vsyo vokrug tam, gde stoyu ya:
>>   Dolzhno byt', angel vsenarodnogo pokhmel'ya.
>
>>   Kryla visyat, kak mokrye usy
>>   I veet chem-to tikho i tosklivo
>>   No glukho b'yut v kremlyovskoi bashne
>>   Pozolochionye chasy
>>   I grazhdane strany zhelayut piva..."

>And here comes the rest of the song:
>
>Byvaet tak, chto nechego skazat'.
>Dejstvitel'nost' beskryla i pom'ata
>I nevozmozhno sdelat' shag 
>ili hot'a by prosto vstat'
>I vse my - bezzasshitny, kak kot'ata...
>
>I rvets'a vrag podsypat' v vodky jad /*
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ /* Isn't it cool?!!
>Razrushit' nam zastol'e i postel'e,  /* - L.A.
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>No kto-to vjets'a nad stranoj,
>Blagoslavl'aja vseh podr'ad
>Hranit nas angel vsenarodnogo pohmelja.
>
>
>BTW, where could I to get a copy of the record
>you guys were talking about - "Istorija Akvariuma Tom III"?

	Almost everywhere in Russia, in particular
	in studia Kolokol of Moscow Rock-laboratoria
	there is about 40 hours of BG. Unfortunately,
	I haven't got there a copy of this particular 
	recording, and I strongly believe that it is not 
	available anywhere in US.

	Misha.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: Mark Lipsits <ml12@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: RELAX: Evreyskii anekdot
X-Xxdate: Tue, 15 Dec 92 23: 25:43 GMT
Nntp-Posting-User: ml12@cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 04:22:37 GMT

In article <1gjc46INN3oj@agate.berkeley.edu> Yury M. Mukharsky,
muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU writes:
>Install System 6, dude! Do not live above your level.

Dude, I am using Cornell labs, not my own computer, so I have to put up
with whatever I have.

I wonder why people are flaming me so badly -- is it because the news
reader installed by Cornell this year is screwing up or because of my
postings in reply to Mr. Davidian?  
Well, just to make sure you all know what is going on here -- I am not
taking Argic side -- I speak for myself.  In case you don't like what I
am saying -- address the issue.  In my articles I tried my best not to
condemn the entire Armenian nation, but just some of the leaders who, as
I believe, started the conflict in Karabach, and who are still misleading
their people.  I am not trying to make excuses for Azeris -- there is no
excuse in murdering.  I am not defending Turks, either.  I speak what I
think, and there are enough people to support my views.
I don't like to dump mud on anyone, and those who used obscene language
against me just proved that they are not cultured enough to conduct a
civilized argument.    
And if you still have anything to say about me posting multiple copies --
 here is my public apology  (although I am apologizing mostly for Cornell
Information Technologies now):

I apologize for any inconvinience I caused by posting multiple copies of
the same article.  I promise to do the best I can to avoid such incidents
from now on.
                 Sincerely, 
                                  Mark Lipsits (note the spelling)
Mark Lipsits.  Cornell University Engineering ComSci.  AKA
ml12@cornell.edu 
                                        ***Lynah Faithful***
From: VIZNYUK@MPS.OHIO-STATE.EDU (SERGEI VIZNYUK)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: tAK SEBE, ERUNDA
Date: 19 Dec 92 19:32:00 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

nEMNOGO GRUSTNYH ANEKDOTOW:

V lesu nachalsia prizyv v armiyu. Zayats ochen ne khotel idti v armiyu,
i dumal, kak by zakosit na medkomissii. Reshil skazat, cho kosoi i
nichego ne vidit. Prishel na medkomissiyu, i govorit lise, chto kosoi
i nichego ne vidit. "I SH-B ne vidish?" "ne-a." Togda ona nachala
razdevatsia, i u zaitsa sluchilas erection. Tem samym on sebia raskryl,
i lisa ego priznala godnym k sluzhbe.
Idet on po lesu grustnyi. Navstrechu emu medved. "Ty chego takoy
grustnyi?" Rasskazal emu zayats svoyu istoriy. Medved govorit: "i mne
tozhe seichas na medkomissiyu. Chto zhe delat?" "Nichego ne podelaesh,
Misha, nado chlen amputirovat." Pogoreval medved, da delat nechego.
Amputiroval chlen, i poshel na medkomissiyu. Zakhodit, a lisa emu
govorit: "Nu-ka, medved, proidis.... Da ty kosolapyi -- ne goden k
sluzhbe! svoboden."

Sorevnovaniya po plavaniyu sredi invalidov. Kto bez ruk plyvet, kto bez
nog. Vdrug prikatilas golova, i tozhe govorit: "ya khochu uchastvovat
v sorevnovaniyakh po plavaniyu sredi invalidov." "ty zhe utonesh!" --
ei govoriat. "Net, brosaite menia." Nadeli ei shapochku, i brosili;
ona i utonula. Vylovili, otkachali, i govoriat: "tebe govorili --
utonesh." "Konechno, ya tselyi god uchilas ushami gresti, a vy mne
shapochku odeli!"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.europe
From: Mark Lipsits <ml12@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Turkish Hebbels and his bad luck
X-Xxdate: Mon, 14 Dec 92 22: 48:05 GMT
Nntp-Posting-User: ml12@cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:44:29 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.023737.1867@leland.Stanford.EDU> Artavazd
Khachikian, arto@leland.Stanford.EDU writes:
>	The virus of Mutlu/Argic is mutating. It is also 
>infecting some of the netters, it appears. I want to congratulate Mark
>Lipsits on occasion of his establishing close relationship with the
>Turkish Propaganda Machine. I am happy that you guys are buddies and 
>I hope that Argic will enjoy your company, Mark. You can even assist him
>in collecting some of his materials.


I am afraid that Mr. Khachikian made some conclusions about the reasons
for me to post the articles on the Karabach issue.  I have not been
"infected" as you might think.  You see, I come from Baku, and I have a
lot of Azeri and Armenian friends.  And it bothers me to see all of this
propaganda of hate on the news channel.  In this discussion I am not
taking the side of Mr. Argic -- I am expressing my personal opinion.  
Mr. Khachikian would probably not understand it, because he himself has
been brainwashed, it seems to me.  But, don't worry!  Your paranoia is
not justified!  What you call "Turkish Propaganda Machine"  does not
affect *all* people.  The bad news for you is that most normal people can
figure things out for themselves, and see through YOUR OWN propaganda.  
  And I have better things to do with my time than to "collect material,"
as you so nicely put it.  And even if I do decide to refer to some
printed material, I will make sure that it is objective. 
   Besides, as I noted in one of my previous postings -- I see no reason
to go back and count dead on either side.  All it does, it continues the
international vendetta.  Statistics is the kind of thing some Armenian
leaders would use to lead their people into more hatred towards Azeris
and Turks.
Mark Lipsits.  Cornell University Engineering ComSci.  AKA
ml12@cornell.edu 
                                        ***Lynah Faithful***
From: mam18@jaguar.uofs.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Communism as a Russian guilt (racist conception)
Date: 20 Dec 92 20:48:57 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.soviet
Organization: University of Scranton

In article <1992Dec20.122404.1@jaguar.uofs.edu>, mam18@jaguar.uofs.edu writes:
> ..deleted...                     Later, they
> printed the names of us in some Chicago newspaper, and it definitely help
> us to get status 'refugee' among the first in Dec.1990 (about 3 month after
> they decided to close Italian-Austrian way).
> 
> Michael Martynov.

Sorry for an error in my previous article.  One should read "Dec.1989" rather
than Dec.1990 (the latter date was my coming to America, that's why I made
this mistake).

Michael.
From: sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: ANECDOTES -- Brezhnev
Date: 14 Dec 92 23:02:41 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Dec14.213429.7474@news.nd.edu> alexei@cartan.math.nd.edu (Alex Strouwe) writes:
!Zagadki:
!
!================
!Eto chto za Barmalei 
!lezet k nam na Mavzolei?
!Brovi chernye, gustye 
!Rechi dlinnye, pustye.
!================
!Eto chto za bolshevik
!lezet k nam na bronevik?
!On bolshuyu kepku nosit
!Bukvu R ne proiznosit.
!=================

  kto dast pravilnyi otvet
  tot poluchit desjat' let.

S.B.

Not my invention, of course.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: RUBAN@hartford.bitnet ("Timur Y. Ruban")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Reply to Jarmo (was Re: RENAME ?!!)
Date: 19 Dec 92 18:10:00 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

>Soc.culture.soviet is the same if there was a news-group
>soc.culture.nazi-german.
>I hope |you understand what I mean. Soviet culture is not russian culture.

I am afraid that I disagree with you.  Though, I think comparison is unadequate,
both Nazi and Soviet cultures and parts of their Ethnos'es culture (German and
Russian, correspondingly).  After all, Nazism could be born only in Germany,
due to the previous ideas and philosophies existing in German and Prussian
society (Shpengler and Bismark, Shopengauer and King Vilghelm, somewhat Nitzshe
and, even, Gethe). Quite possibly that I am being prejudice or non-objective.
But, after all, it did happen this way!
  I think that one of the main diferences between Nazism and "Sovietism" is
that one was racially/ethnically based and another socially/economically.
You are somewhat right, saying that Soviet culture is not russian culture -
Soviet culture included in itself cultures of many others - slavs and not slavs,
europeans and asians, etc.  Even more, despite presence of anti-semitism in
the structure (not in ideology! as it was in nazism) there was relevant presence
of other "nationalistic" and "rasist" movements - as in any other society.  The
only difference, that as USSR was the MOST ethnically diverse society in the
world (or at least one of them), you could see the tensions more clear than in
any other.
  I think that the main paradox between arguing sides in the discussion that
"con" side considers "Soviet" the system that was existing, with its "dark side"
so to speak, and the "pro" side talk in their arguments about another sub-
culture, that was existing in the society (completely opposite to the official-
first one) and also could appear only in the conditions, existing in the USSR
of 17-91 period.
  Finally, are you mostly concerned about changing the name of the group or
topics being discussed (and the way how they are discussed)?  If first, than
the argument is kind of similar to the one they were giving in Soviet system
regardin ohers - "Clean up the pages of the history".. I do not think one can
do it - after all, even soc.culture.nazi is a part of the history (no matter
good or bad) and is important for social studies.
  And if you are arguing about changing the content - what makes you think that
by changing the name you will be able to change the opinions, mentalities and
diversion of people in this forum?  Well, maybe some of us will leave (pro-
baly I shall - though I am not sure yet - after all we already have Russia
forum that serves the same needs) and that's it.  Everything will be the same
excet the name.  Dixi.

I am for keeping the name.

Regards,
Tima.




I am for soc.culture.russian
privet,
jarmo
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: alexei@cartan.math.nd.edu (Alex Strouwe)
Subject: Re: ANECDOTES
Keywords: Mikhail S. Verbitsky
Organization: University of Notre Dame
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:32:00 GMT

Mikhail S. Verbitsky writes
|> 
|> A po-moemu devushka dura kak i vse ostal'nye mudaki
|> kotorye posylayut v scs starye anekdoty. Ya by ne stal eyo obdelyvat',
|> (vremeni netu obdelyvat' kazhdogo idiota), no k Sergeyu 
|> polnost'yu prisoedinyayus'. Eti zastarelye
|> tupye anekdoty NADOELI! See my recent 
|> answer to Michael Martynov why I think that 
|> the posting of "anecdotes" in scs is obnoxious
|> waste of bandwidth. 


|> I am sorry, you are right. I have no right to call
|> you names. I did not call idiot personally you,
|> though. Some jokes from you
|> were not bad, but I knew them, and most of jokes
|> are being posted and reposted through eternity
|> by people who did not read news a year ago to
|> learn that they were being posted. I preferred
|> that someone compiled all incoming jokes and
|> posted the list, say, weekly. Otherwise it's
|> only the illustration that the news are going
|> in circles, which is what I am fighting with.
|> 

|> 
|> Misha.

I absolutely agree with your persuasion.
All the "Mudaki" who post old jokes are fools.
I am also getting bored of those kinds of anecdotes.
The world is going in circles. 

By the way, all you have said was posted earlier too.
Moreover, in one of my previous lives, I used to know a man
who lived hundreds of years ago. He was an exact copy of you, Misha.

Is there a meaning of your life? 

Alex

--

V rossiiskoi istorii bylo dva L'va: Odin napisal "Voina I Mir".
Drugoi skazal: "Ni Mira, Ni Voiny, a armiyu raspustit'"

There are two Leo's in the Russian History. One of them wrote War and Peace,
while the other one said: Neither Peace nor War, but discharge the army. 
 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:10982 soc.culture.europe:10385 talk.politics.soviet:9650
From: viznyuk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Alexei, you ignore the democratic EUROPEAN institutions!
Date: 13 Dec 92 16:41:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: ohstpy.15078.2b2b2166
Organization: Midwest Rat's Hole

In article <1992Dec13.125944.1@cc.helsinki.fi>, thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi writes:
> 
> According to my opinion (and this view is shared by many Europeans)
> exactly these organizations should meadiate in political skirmishes and
> evaluate the achievements in the fields of democracy and human
> rights.
> 
> Alexei, on which side are you? Do you accept the positive role
> of these institutions in Eastern Europe or do you agree with
> your "comrade" Viznyuk, who called the Council of Europe "bullshit"?
> (I can quote his previous postings, if you do not believe that
> this is his real opinion. Personally, I ended my discussion with
> Mr Viznyuk when he uttered his opinions on the Council of Europe).

  your pleasure, Mr.Thietaniemi. If you like that my opinion,
I could repeat it: Council of Europe is bullshit ! Its failure
to do anything about war in Yugoslavia, its failure to do anything
about human rights violations in Estonia and Latvia, its failure
to stop neo-Nazis in Germany, etc, etc, are the best witnesses
to the value of this "Council". Notorious pre-WWII "League of Nations"
comes to mind..
  Actually I was rather surprised to see Estonia and Latvia
applying for a membership in this Kangaroo Court. Certainly they
are much more apt for a membership in infamous "Confederation of
Mountaineous People". Though they lack mountains, it's surely not
a big deal under current level of civilisation in Estonia & Latvia:
a couple hundreds of escavators will fix this problem in a month..
Neither I think Chechen "president" Dudaev would mind to see
Estonia (which has already tried to recognize Chechen "republic")
in his "confederation".

Staunchy supporter of Estonian "democracy",
Serega & Co

> 
> asks
> the convinced supporter of the Helsinki process
> Tapani Hietaniemi, Universitas Helsingiensis
>                    urbs fennorum
> 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: euamgk@eua.ericsson.se (Marina Kohnen)
Subject: Anekdot pro Vovochku i pogovorka
Reply-To: euamgk@eua.ericsson.se
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 23:08:13 GMT

Anekdot:

Uchitelnitza sprashivayet uchenikov 2-go klassa, kem one hotyat stat' kogda vyrastut.
Odin govorit, doktorom.  Vtoroi - prodavtzom morozhennogo.
Vovochka govorit: seksopatologom.

Pochemu, Vovochka?
A eto ochen' vazhnaya professiya.  Lyudi dazhe ne dogadyvayutsya naskol'ko vazhnaya.
Ne tolko sem'yi raspadayutsya kogda seksopatologicheskiye problemy, no i voobsche
vsyo vospriyatiye mira u takogo cheloveka narusheno.  On ne mozhet normal'no 
funktzionirovat' v obschestve.
Da? (Uchitel'nitza vpechatlena).
Da, ya vam prodemonstriruyu.  Podoidite pozhaluysta k oknu, Maria Ivanovna i 
vyglyanitye na ulitzu.  Vidyetye dvuh zhenschin kotorye yedyat morozhennoye.
Kak vy dumayetye, kakaya iz nih zamuzhem?  Ta kotoraya moroznennoye kusayet, ili
ta kotoraya yego lizhet?
Nu navernoye ta kotoraya yego lizhet, govorit uchitel'nitza.
Nepravil'no!  Ta u kotoroi obruchal'noye kol'tzo, ta i zamuzhem.  A vam, Maria
Ivanovna, nuzhno k seksopatologu.

Pogovorka:

V Dom Pionera na yolku, a v Dom Ofitzera na palku.
From: krainev@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: RELAX: COWBOYS' JOKES.
Date: 12 Dec 92 12:06:58 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services



 **************************************************************
 Edut dva kovboya po prerii.
 Dolgo i skuchno.
 Odin govorit:
 - Bill, smotri - kucha govna lezhit. Sporim na $100, ne s'esh'.
 - S'em! - otvechaet Bill i s'edaet.
 Jack platit emu $100 i nemnogo pogodya zhaleet ob etom.
 - Bill, smotri - kucha govna lezhit. Sporim na $100, s'em.
 Posporili, i Jack s'el kuchu govna i poluchil svoi $100 nazhad.
 Edut dal'she.
 - Bill, a tebe ne kazhetsya, chto mi ne za khui sobachij s'eli
   dve kuchi govna?
 ****************************************************************
 Za kovboem gonyatsya indeizi. Pochti nastigli.
 PIZDEZ - podumal kovboi.
 Esche ne pizdez - govorit emu vnutrennij golos. - Vidish' derevo -
 ezzhai tuda i zalezai na nego.
 Kovboi vipolnil.
 - Teper' otpusti konya.
 Kovboi otpustil.
 - Vot teper' PIZDEZ - skazal vnutrennij golos.
 *****************************************************************
From: sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Re: RENAME ?!!
Date: 17 Dec 92 05:56:03 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <SCS-L%92121623410466@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU> "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu> writes:
>>>I AGREE WITH EVERYONE WHO THINKS THAT IT IS TIME TO RENAME

>Thumbs up!  You see, I think that the main problem in this soc.culture.soviet
>forum that we get here individuals only with the soc. and soviet. background,
>when the culture. one is completely absent at all, so to say.
>  I think that not the name, but content has to be changed.

  So, why don't you go ahead and show us, individuals with "soc" and 
  "soviet" backgrounds only, some examples of "culture". A to pizdet'
  to vse gorazdy. 

>>don't we have other topics to think about?
>A lot.  Any suggestions?

 ??? Sounds like you *just* don't know what to start with. Show us
 your comprehension of the evolution of soviet democracy and explain
 to us why the increasing amount of women in Russian parlament helps
 the latter to make wise decisions aimed to further increase of the
 level of democracy.

>Sincerely,
>Timur.

 S.B.
From: gorokho1@husc10.harvard.edu (Zhenya Gorokhovsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: RELAX: Evreyskii anekdot
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:55:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc10.GOROKHO1.92Dec15155524
 tnews.upenn.edu> <101641@netnews.upenn.edu><1992Dec14.131253.1@jaguar.uofs.edu>
Organization: Physicists for Poetry
In-reply-to: mam18@jaguar.uofs.edu's message of 14 Dec 92 18:12:53 GMT

mam18@jaguar.uofs.edu writes:
> P.S.  Ia ne schitaiu chto eto plokho posylat' "idiotskie fleimy", a posemu
>       u menia net protivorechiia mezhdu slovom i delom...  Sovetuiu podumat'.

Nakonets to hot' kto-to priznalsya chto on ne schitaet zazornym byt'
idiotom. Da ecshe podverzhdaet eto na dele. Vot ona, vot ona
dolgozhdannaya tsivilizovannost'.

Zhenya
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:10901 soc.culture.europe:10351 talk.politics.soviet:9618
From: viznyuk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: The sufferings of Russians
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:56:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: ohstpy.15054.2b289e00
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics

In article <1992Dec11.151807.1@cc.helsinki.fi>, thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi writes:
> In article <11989@kesson.ed.ac.uk>, alexei@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Alexei Moiseyev) 
> writes:
> 
> 
>>>Russia has as good leaders as it deserves. 
>> 
>> I find this sentence offensive in the extreme.  For it justifies the
>> repressions which Russia suffered at the hands of the inhuman monsters
>> who happend to be in charge for most of this century.  
> 
> 
> Finland has as good leaders as it deserves.
> 
> 
> By the way, according to my humble opinion,
> all nations have as good leaders they deserve.
> 

Attention !  Copyright violation perpetrated by honorable
Mr. Thietaniemi !

  Source:

  ..Any goverment is worth its nation, as
    well as any nation is worth its goverment..
                      (V.I.Lenin, Gosudarstvo i revolutsia, circa 1911 ? ) 

Serega & Co


> 
> Why would this opinion be "offensive in the extreme" in the Russian case?
> 
> 
>> To the extent to which people
>> like Mr.Hietaniemi are refusing to recognise OUR suffering, 
> 
> 
> Sorry. This is a lie. I haven't refuse recognize anything of the
> nasty past of your Rodina.
> 
> 
>> to the
>> extent to which there are trying to turn US into scapegoats; 
> 
> 
> Do you mean Russia or United States?
> 
> 
> 
> More nonsense follows:
> 
>> they are
>> disregarding OUR HUMANITY.  To them, it would appear, our suffering is
>> of no consequence.  Is THIS not discrimination?  Is it not
>> discrimination when so much is made of the suffering of Estonia and
>> nothing is said of the suffering of Russia?  
> 
> 
> 
>> Given this it is no
>> surprise that Mr.Hietaniemi and others find it easy to see MERE
>> "colonists" in the Estonian Russian speakers.				
> 
> 
> I think I have NEVER called Estonian Russian speakers "colonists".
> 
> Please, let me fabricate my own arguments. Don't present your
> prejudices about me as my opinions!
> 
> Tapani Hietaniemi, Universitas Helsingiensis
>                    urbs fennorum
> 
>