From: basestu@bmerh691.bnr.ca (Jean Giblin)
Subject: Re: Character Detail
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 17:22:00 GMT

In article <Bxz050.GvF@access.digex.com> dzik@access.digex.com (Joseph Dzikiewicz) writes:
...
>Is it possible to have a PA system in which there are distinctive skill
>levels and meaningful stats and in which it is not possible to come up
>with a non-optimized character that is less effective in every way
>then a similar but optimized character?  The PA systems that I know 
>(mostly GURPs and HERO, in this context) of generally have better ways of 
>designing most anything.  The only PA system I know of that does not
>have this flaw is The Fantasy Trip, but that was fairly primitive and
>did not have skill levels independent of stats.
>
>Come to think of it, this objection applies to random systems also.  It
...
>
>Come to think of it, this objection applies to life as well.  People with
...
>
>So, can anyone point me to a system where, given characters A and B
>that have equal points, levels, experience, etc, A cannot be more
>effective then B in everything?
>

Well, generally, I don't mind the fact that optimizing is possible in a
system (..since usually it means characters in the system are have more
realistic feel to them.  Being stealthy by nature and being stealthy by
skill are two completely different things.)  Buuuut... if you really want...

The problem with a system that allows one character to be better in all   
ways to another, while still being of the same amount of points, is because
you can buy the same thing in different ways (yeah yeah, that's obvious).

Ok.  Now, why do we have to have it this way?  Well, one reason to have it
is because we have to buy stats, which affect skills, and skills, since
not everyone with a high dex (or speed or reaction or whatever) can use a
gun, but both obviously affect gun skill.      

BUT WAIT!! Do we need stats?  After all, maybe the reason that someone is
considered dextrous isn't because they have a high DEX but because they
excel in dextrous acts, ie skills.  In other words, what is DEX but a 
description of how good you are at DEX skills?  Get rid of it!

Skill packages are just ways of cheapening costs.  They lead to over 
optimization.  They gotta go too.  Is there a way in your system to
buy bonuses to skill groups, or to have skill bonuses leak out to other     
skills?  TRASH THEM!

What we have now, is a system of COMPLETELY SEPERATE SKILLS and THAT'S IT!
If you wanna seem strong, buy up Lifting Skill, Hitting People Hard skill,
Taking Blows Without Flinching Skill, and Looking Very Large Skill.  Of
course, you don't HAVE to buy all of them.

Now, this was meant half-seriously.  After all, such a system WOULD remove
'optimization' in the sense you mentioned (after all, you either bought the
skills or you didn't..) but Minimaxing would be rampant.  (Lifting Skill
would probably be avoid by munchkins, but Hitting and Taking Blows would
be bought like crazy.)  On the other hand, if you have Fair Players (TM)
who are content to Role-Play (TM) this silly idea might just represent things
better than a stat-based one..NAHHHHHHH.



nok


///HERO MUNCHKIN BULLETIN HERO MUNCHKIN BULLETIN HERO MUCHKIN BULLETIN///

///NEWS FLASH!///

The HERO world has changed for good with the announcement that HKAs are
now OBSOLETE!  A much more viable and cost-resistant replacement has
been found..

Simulate Death --- Usable Against Others

Cheap, effective, cheap, easy to place advantages on (and take advantage of),
cheap, disregards all defenses, cheap, never fails, and of course, mind
bogglingly cheap. 

Expects say it is most effect when bought with Base on ECV (so no expensive
DEX is required), area of effect (what the hell, for three points, you
can multiply the area by eight times) and affects desolidified (almost for free).

///WE NOW RETURN YOU TO YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED PROGRAM///