HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lee@wang.com (Lee Story)
Subject: Re: Teacher evaluation (was: alternative to hitting students)
Organization: Wang Laboratories, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: 6 Apr 92 11:28:58
	<LEE.92Mar23132447@meercat.wang.com> <leblanc.701494079@knuth>
	<42272@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> <LEE.92Mar30115434@meercat.wang.com>
	<leblanc.702180912@knuth>


(Stuart LeBlanc) writes: If Mr. Story wishes to impose an economic
   metaphor on the student-teacher relationship, then the appropriate
   response of a dissatisfied student (i.e. "customer") would be to
   take their business elsewhere.  Alternately, the use of student
   evaluations in the promotion and tenure processes would be
   equivalent to having customers make corporate management decisions.

I don't want this to deteriorate into some sort of educational-versus-
business-perspective flame war, but would like to note that I intended
no "economic metaphor".  As far as I can see, it is not at all
metaphorical.  The student has paid (sometimes very indirectly, to be
sure) for certain products and services, often rather ill-defined, and
is the final judge of whether these are satisfactory.  Mr. LeBlanc is
right that "the use of student evaluations in the promotion and tenure
processes would be equivalent to having customers make corporate
management decisions".  Customers DO express their displeasure, even
in a highly controlled market like formal education, and those
corporations which ignore it in their decisions can expect either to
be forced from business, or (in an over-controlled economic segment
where they can continue to survive) continue to provide an
ill-targeted and mediocre product.

In response to a parallel post by Mr. Leblanc: One of the most
surprising things about leaving an Ivy League program and entering
industry wass finding that the people from Montana or North Dakota State
are often just as quick as the Ivy Leaguers.  I'm surprised that
anyone would deprecate the talents and awareness of their students
(I presume LeBlanc has students) in the way that he does, and remain
in academia.
--

------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Lee Story (lee@wang.com) Wang Laboratories, Inc.
     (Boston and New Hampshire AMC, and Merrimack Valley Paddlers)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: qmdbms@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Brian Schott)
Subject: Need computer software
Organization: Georgia State University
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 23:28:54 GMT


I am looking for software which traps keystrokes from PCs for two different
applications.  

a) For (classroom) presentations I would like students to see the keystrokes. 
Granted that this need may go away soon with mice and GUI's, but for now it
would be real effective. Can the keystrokes be projected onto the wall along
with the screen images?

b) For computer laboratory experiments to record subjects' actions.  For this
application I need not only a record of keystrokes, but also a time stamp
which allows me to analyze lengths of time.  If the software can also record
the emotions of the subjects, that would be OK too. ;-)

(B=)
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: sdavis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen S Davis)
Subject: Homeschooling
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 11:31:14 GMT

To get started I need some interested homeschoolers/teachers/administrators to 
come on line and discuss the issues.  i.e. Can administrative functions be 
handled over the net.  Can my children become involved with the school children
over the net?  How can we help each other?  Curriculum use, successes, things 
to avoid, leagal issues, progress issues, gradeing issues, testing issues, 
participation in school sports/band/trips, how to keep informed of what is 
happening in the local school, TV usages, video usages, computer usages,
physical education, daily schedules, work space, filing systems, and on to
infinitum concerning the domain of the homeschool.

Please cross post this message as appropriate to any place it might solicit
response.  I will be setting up a file of contacts and post updates and reports
to any interested parties.

Regards, ssd
-- 
Stephen S. Davis                   FUZZNAME: Stephen_Davis@osu.edu
4910 Upper Valley Rd         EMAIL: sdavis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Dayton, OH 45424             Home (513)879-1869
OSU APRTMNT (614)262-3480    OSU Work, Ed P&L (614)292-4872
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: gilham@csl.sri.com (Fred Gilham)
Subject: Re: Minors right of access to contraceptives?
Organization: Computer Science Lab, SRI International, Menlo Park, CA.
	<1992Apr14.200059.27588@cs.wayne.edu>
	<14APR199222054665@phobos.ucc.umass.edu>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 15:49:47 GMT


``The discussion of condoms in schools belongs on Oprah Winfrey, not
in a forum devoted to education.  When are you people going to grow
up!''

I agree that we are treading a fine line here, but it seems to me that
the topic falls under the question of what purposes public education
ought to pursue.  After all this is a `miscellaneous' group.
--
-Fred Gilham          gilham@csl.sri.com 
Xref: sparky misc.education:1896 sci.edu:538
From: hu89@gemini.ldc.lu.se (Hans Naslund, Lund <Sweden>)
Newsgroups: misc.education,sci.edu
Subject: Swedish reports on higher education available for ftp
Date: 13 Apr 92 14:24:40 GMT
Reply-To: hu89@gemini.ldc.lu.se
Organization: Lund University Sweden


Two reports on higher education in Sweden are now available in English
summary for anonymous ftp from ftp.lu.se.

One is a summary of the report - with the title "FREEDOM - RESPONSI-
BILITY - COMPETENCE" - of a national commission on higher education,
delivered to the Minister of Education in January, 1992. It is found
in the directory /pub/education with the filename
"h_ed_commission_summary.txt".

The other is an English summary of a memorandum "Independence for
Swedish Universities and Colleges" from the Swedish Ministry of
Education and Science, also published in January, 1992. It is called
"ministry-memo.txt" and can also be found in the directory
/pub/education.

 ___________________________________________________________________
*                                                                   *
*  Hans Naslund                  Telephone:  (+46)46-10 44 90       *
*  Higher Education Commission         Fax:  (+46)46-10 44 00       *
*  Box 117                     EARN/BITNET:  HU89@SELDC52           *
*  S-221 00  LUND                 Internet:  hu89@gemini.ldc.lu.se  *
*___________________________________________________________________*
From: kbradfor@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu (Kenneth Bradford)
Subject: Re: First grader - Reading difficulties
Organization: Virginia's Public Education Network (Richmond)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 92 19:27:23 GMT

I don't know exactly how to tell you to get hold of it, but the
Rigby Corp., which sells a lot of whole language materials, may
be able to get for you an assessment called "Concepts of
Print."  You can give this yourself -- often beginning reading
problems are caused by not knowing "rules" for reading that are
so ingrained in us (e. g., left-right, word separated from word by
space, etc.) that we overlook them for kids.
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: melissa@spanky.jpl.nasa.gov (Melissa Probst)
Subject: First grader - Reading difficulties
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA.
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 20:25:16 GMT

Hi,

My son is in first grade and is really struggling with reading. We 
work with him at home, reading to him and using flash cards with words
that the teacher has given us.  He is doing very will in all other 
areas, math, art, etc.  He is really trying to read and gets frustrated 
when he can't.  His teacher has suggested having him "tested" to see 
if he has any learning disabilities.  Can anyone tell me what exactly is
involved with these tests?

Also, do any of you having any suggestions as to what else we can do 
at home to help him?

Thanks in advance,

Melissa
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Melissa Probst
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
4800 Oak Grove 301-250D
Pasadena, CA 91109

email: melissa@spanky.jpl.nasa.gov
From: donp@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com (Don Pettengill [CT R+D])
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 19:44:23 GMT
Subject: Re: Government Accountability
Organization: HP Labs, High Speed Electronics Dept., Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: misc.education

From Jim Bowery:

>If you want to debate whether slavery should be legalized or
>not, then lets do it.  I don't want to waste time dealing with
>your red herrings just because you're afraid to get down to brass 
>tacks.

Huh? I thought we were discussing education here. I thought the rest
of your post somewhat bizarre, but the above tops it!

You're from outer space, fella. I'm not even going to waste my breath.

don "or my ASCIIs :-)" pettengill
From: solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: Re: Homeschooling
Date: 17 Apr 92 16:40:46 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

>Personal Opinion:
>Parents who indulge in 'homeschooling' are guilty of child abuse.
>Very rarely are they qualified to teach. Even more infrequently can they  
>provide an education that comes close to what is provided in public schools.
>(I'll admit to a bias here - Iowa schools are better than average.)
>The real reasons for home schooling seem to be racism, religous bigotry, or  
>laziness on the part of the parents. (they want the children at home to act as  
>their slaves)

That's an interesting opinion considering that children who are homeschooled
outperform their public school counterparts by a HUGE margin. The only study I've
ever read that sited an explanation for it, found a 1.5 standard deviation
difference in the SAT scores of a relatively small (~40 people study group)
versus a much larger group that attended public schools. (If you translate it
into points its more than enough difference to make a point even though the SATs
are worthless over smaller differences). The explanation was that those children
were given better attention than their counter parts (DUH) and that they
initially came from homes with parents who cared more about them (the idea being
that such kids are generally smarter although they didn't have any stats proving
this part.

As one who had to waste a considerable fraction of his life in public schools, I
know very well that they are evil. (And I attended an "excellent" school district)

Parents who send their children into a situation where they know that they will
be neglected, and left to rot are guilty of child abuse.

Jason W. Solinsky
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: gthomas@unixg.ubc.ca (Guy R Thomas)
Subject: Re: Homeschooling
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 23:22:54 GMT

In <12208@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> jagnow@al.weeg.uiowa.edu (Al Jagnow) writes:

    personal Opinion:

    [horendous waving of boogy-men deleted]  (that was not a flame)

    Disclaimer: This has been a personal opinion. Flames will be ignored.

The head of the department of education at one medium sized university
in Canada chose to homeschool his child.  He had the oportunity
to be activly involved in shaping the eduactional system and felt that
it was not fit for his child.  Strong recomendation for homeschooling.


   O
\__|__/
   |
   |         What shall we do?              Guy    gthomas@unixg.ubc.ca
  /~\
 /   \
From: casey@chsun1.spc.uchicago.edu (Katherine Casey)
Subject: Re: Homeschooling
Organization: Chapin Hall Center for Children
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 20:44:59 GMT


>Personal Opinion:
>Parents who indulge in 'homeschooling' are guilty of child abuse.
>Very rarely are they qualified to teach. Even more infrequently can they  
>provide an education that comes close to what is provided in public schools.
>(I'll admit to a bias here - Iowa schools are better than average.)
>The real reasons for home schooling seem to be racism, religous bigotry, or  
>laziness on the part of the parents. (they want the children at home to act as  
>their slaves)
>Although there may be some cases that require home schooling, necessity does  
>not seem to be a common reason that is given. The local home schoolers group  
>seems to think that schooling can be acomplished in 20 min to two hours per  
>day.
>If these people were really concerned with educating their children, they would  
>send them to public schools and then supplement their education on weekends and  
>on vacations.
>Of the homeschoolers that I know, one family has had a son refuse to obey his  
>parents, run away from home, and begin hang out with the local street gang.
>Another family has had a 13 yr old daughter attempt suicide. (She said that she  
>didn't have any friends and that her parents didn't like her.)
>OK, so that can happen to kids who attend public schools too, but I think that  
>these children would have had a better chance if they had public school  
>education and had access to the resources of the public education system.
>We don't need more people who will be a burden on society.
>You should also note that in today's job market, a GED certificate may be a  
>mark against you when applying for a job.  It indicates that although you may  
>have the knowledge, you were not reliable enough to attend school on a regular  
>basis.  Unless you have a real high school diploma, you may even have trouble  
>finding a job flipping burgers.  
>
>Disclaimer: This has been a personal opinion. Flames will be ignored.

You say flames will be ignored, but I will flame anyway.  

You must be *incredibly* ignorant to post on a subject you obviously know 
*nothing* about!  I can't tell you how PISSED I am at what you said because
to do so would be a waste of my time.  I can tell you know *nothing* about
homeschooling.  Please keep your "personal opionions" to yourself in the
future.


-- 
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
Katherine Casey			  		  casey@chsun1.uchicago.edu
"This is the world as it is.  This is where you start."      - Saul Alinsky
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
From: tcolbert@dragon.cpe.ulowell.edu (Terry Colbert)
Subject: Re: Homeschooling
Organization: CPE: University of Lowell -- Lowell, MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 05:30:57 GMT

In article <12208@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> jagnow@al.weeg.uiowa.edu (Al Jagnow) writes:

>   Personal Opinion:
>   Parents who indulge in 'homeschooling' are guilty of child abuse...
>   ...[several pages deleted]...


Al,

I wanted to say just how much I enjoyed reading your posting.  I hadn't
had a good laugh all day.

Tell the truth.  You're really one of those guys from Yale who's
always trying to spoof Ann Landers, right?

Keep those one-liners coming.


--
                   +-------------------------------+
                   |    Terry [Charles] Colbert    |
                   |-------------------------------|
                   |tcolbert@dragon.cpe.ulowell.edu|
                   +-------------------------------+
Xref: sparky misc.education:1905 misc.kids:12949
From: alan@edstar.ucsb.edu (Alan Moses)
Newsgroups: misc.education,misc.kids
Subject: Re: Homeschooling
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:54:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: edstar.alan.703277651
Followup-To: misc.education

[Follow-up to misc.education, please.]

Thank you, Stephen, for opening the discussion.  I am very
interested in seeing homeschool issues discussed in this group.
Although there are a wide range of reasons for homeschooling, and
an equally wide variety of approaches, one thing common to all
the homeschoolers I've talked is a commitment to education.  This
sense of commitment is obviously shared by many of the parents,
teachers, and administrators who post in this group.  I expect
that a discussion of homeschooling would be of interest not only
to those who are doing it, but also to anyone interested in
educational alternatives.

I think the net could be a valuable forum for sharing ideas and
success stories.  By far the most important resources I've found
are the other homeschoolers I talk to on a regular basis, and the
net obviously presents an opportunity to expand the range and
diversity of these discussions - including perspectives from
outside the US. I'm not sure whether there is enough access for
kids to talk to each other via Usenet, but links between local
bulletin boards may present a way for this to occur.  I plan to
set up a board here in Santa Barbara, California some time this
summer, and I just found out about one already in place in
Northern California.  Any other homeschool BBS's out there?

So, let's hear from other homeschoolers.  John Gatto estimates
that there are 600,000 homeschooling families in the US; I expect
there are more than a few lurking out there 'on the net'.

- Alan

Alan Moses
Graduate School of Education		alan@edstar.gse.ucsb.edu
UC Santa Barbara   			UCSB PROFS: AMOSES 
Santa Barbara, CA 93106-9490  		Voice: (805) 893-8031
From: Oliver.F.Medzihradsky@dartmouth.edu (Oliver F. Medzihradsky)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: Teach For America -- any experience/impressions?
Date: 13 Apr 92 06:13:28 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

Hello, has anyone out there had any involvement in, or experience with,
the Teach For America program?  It sounds very interesting to me, and I
would like to hear others' impressions of the program.  To be honest,
I've lost their address -- does anyone have it or their phone number? 
(For those of you unfamiliar with it, TFA provides college graduates
with the opportunity to go out and teach for 2 years in either
inner-city or rural schools in America)
Thanks in advance for any feedback,
Oliver Medzihradsky
Oliver.Medzihradsky@dartmouth.edu
From: greis@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gayla Ann Greis)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: Re: Duty to graduate ?
Date: 6 Apr 92 21:51:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: uwm.1992Apr6.215124.12832
Distribution: na
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee

In article <LEE.92Apr6132800@meercat.wang.com> lee@wang.com (Lee Story) writes:
>one in which, other than for basic literacy instruction (which even
>Gatto agrees should be compulsory), a person seeks and acquires
>vocational or non-vocational formal education when he or she feel the
>individual need to do so.  The only objection I can find to this is:

OK, this I can buy. In fact, I hope it didn't sound like I was knocking
this model down! I don't think a student should *HAVE* to go through
college. Rather, be able to seek the level at which he or she wishes, in
the time he or she wishes. This is different from saying that someone
should be a telephone earpeice cleaner, because they could not get through
college in 4 years, or graduate from MIT with a 4.0 or better.

>But I remain an exponent of individual satisfaction rather than
>professional competence or social certification as the main
>educational goal, and certainly do not see college or even
>(non-professional) graduate school as primarily a pump-primer for some
>majoritarian view of societal well-being.  Hopefully this has been
>clear in my posts on the value (or lack of value) of grading and the
>evaluation of teaching.

Its clear enough that I noticed it.
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky)
Subject: Re: Researching public schools in U.S.
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 16:48:44 GMT

In article <29130001@hpcndpc.CND.HP.COM>, jbm@hpcndpc.CND.HP.COM (Jane Marcus) writes:

There are numerous books and even some professional services providing
information on public school districts. If you know the general locality, you can
probabally also find a ranking of the best ones in a local magazine or paper. My
advice would be not to trust these because they are more often a judge a the
school's PR. You're best bet is touring the school system, and talking to parents
and kids.

Jason W. Solinsky
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: gthomas@unixg.ubc.ca (Guy R Thomas)
Subject: BC Human Resources Development Project
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: bc
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 00:07:21 GMT

I quote from the the 'Working Forum Handbook':

  "The first chalenge is economic. ... Experience indicates that firms
  who use, keep up with, and innovate with modern technology will do 
  well.  That is where education and training come in:  we need skills 
  for the marketplace."

The brainchild of Gary Mullins, Deputy minister, Ministry of Advanced
Education, Training and Technology,  the project is intended to 
culminate in a policy paper that will guide the, dare I say it?,
reformation of education in this province.

Again I quote:

  "Our goals:

    - to develop and empower the people of British Columbia

    - to energize British Columbia's economy"

The project began in January of 1991 and is now at the first large scale
public input stage.

Has anyone heard of this project?  Why is there no debate about it?
It's scope is enormous; "the project seeks to develop a comprehensive
and coordinated strategy for the education, training, re-training, and
learning(the development) of the people of British Columbia (our human
resources)."  Its influence will be felt by every provider of educational
services, user of those services, and employer of the product of those 
services ( if you will pardon the comodification of all thoes very 
noncomodifiable referents).


For more information:

by mail:
British Columbia Human Resource Development Project
Room 2000-515 West Hastings Street
Vancouver, British Columbia V6B 5K3

by Fax:
(604) 775-0291

by phone:
(604) 775-0285


THIS AFFECTS YOU.


(my appologies if this gets beyond BC but I did try to stop it.)

Guy
gthomas@unixg.ubc.ca

Newsgroups: misc.education
From: wkl1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Wing-Keong Loke                                               the consummate chronic prevaricator)
Subject: Re: Homeschooling
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 04:35:04 GMT

In article <1992Apr17.020133.7496@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bd474@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bill McDonald) writes:
>
>In a previous article, casey@chsun1.spc.uchicago.edu (Katherine Casey) says:
>
> [Al Janow's drivel deleted]
>
>>You say flames will be ignored, but I will flame anyway.  
>>
>>You must be *incredibly* ignorant to post on a subject you obviously know 
>>*nothing* about!  I can't tell you how PISSED I am at what you said because
>>to do so would be a waste of my time.  I can tell you know *nothing* about
>>homeschooling.  Please keep your "personal opionions" to yourself in the
>>future.
>>
>Katherine,
> 
>Pay no attention to such folk as Al. Al has a disease.
>It's called rigidity. He learned it in public school.  He can't help it.
>
>Fortunately for Al, he has lots of company.  He and his breed
>have managed to convince themselves, in the very face of reality,
>that public education in America is the best possible thing for kids:i
	UNFORTUNATELY for us.  I know someone who skipped grade and
high school except for aboutt 3.5 years of schooling.  I've repeatedly
told him how lucky he is.  He realized it when he spoke to some
obnoxious high school kid who claimed to have been taught things which
even the best minds in the world have not been able to figure out.  By
the way, my friends safely on his way to grad school at very prestigious
universities.
	As for me.  Thank you no for the public education.  But of course,
I'm prejudiced because I'm not speaking of America but some backwater
place like Malaysia.
Xref: sparky misc.education:1829 k12.chat.teacher:1688