From: wanderer@leland.Stanford.EDU (Anthony William Cannon)
Subject: Re: Capcom f*cks up TCE
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: alt
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 23:35:44 GMT

In article <GRIGSBY.92Apr14165301@occs.cs.oberlin.edu> grigsby@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Spiral Death Trap) writes:
>
>Far be it from me to post a message about TCE here in the midst of this 
>stupid flamefest, but I've noticed something that makes some characters
>intrinsically better than others.  I'd like to be wrong: if anyone has 
>counters or other strategies that even things out, do tell.
>
>1) Some characters have combos which, if the first hit happens, the rest are
>*guaranteed* to happen with proper timing.  Examples:
>Bison's jab-jab-jab-fierce
>Several Ryu/Ken punch-punch-sweep combos
>Ryu/Ken/Bison/Guile's sweeps/slides that will automatically hit a character
>landing from a jump
>Vega's fast slashes (OK, this isn't so bad, but still.)
><Add your faves here -- Guile's combos w/razor kick, Ryu/Ken's w/uppercut,
> and more>
>Several characters, to my knowledge, do *not*.  I have found no such sequence
>with Blanka, for instance, and know of none either.

Most people can do at least _something_ that will always take off damage if the
first attack hits...you just have to (1) have good timing or (2) gauge your
distance right.  For example:
Blanka: jumping fierce + NEUTRAL strong + crouching roundhouse

>
>2) Some characters, if they knock the opponent down, get further damage
>_guaranteed_, with no possibility of avoidance.  Examples:
>Bison knocks you down and torpedoes over you as you get up.  You must block
>and take damage - over a fierce hit's worth!
>Chun Li knocks you down, jumps in and starts the YAP kick.  You must block
>and take damage - usually a bit more than a fierce hit's worth!

But look:
People who do damage if you            People who do damage if you
DO NOT block the first attack:         DO block the first attack:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
     Guile                                   Chun Li
     Ryu/Ken                                 Honda
     Vega                                    Zangief (ZCSPD)
     Blanka                                  Bison

etc..etc...etc.  Fill in the blanks that I've missed.  The point is
that point (2) tends to cancel out point (1), making the game more
balanced than you'd think.
	
>3) Throw priority does exist.  Try, for instance, throwing Bison after
>blocking his torpedo.  I am a poor Ken and can do this about 30% of the time.
>I am a much better Blanka and can bite about 5% of the time -- I've stopped
>trying since unless the person is clueless it never works.  This makes 
>characters with lower throw priority (or execution delay, or whatever) 
>almost useless, since throws are the ONLY thing that will damage a low-
>blocking player besides jump attacks (I'm not counting the tick of damage
>from missiles), except for the next case.
>
Hmmm.  Haven't tried this.  I've been SFII:CE deprived since I came back
from spring break. :(

>4) Some characters have invincible moves and range attacks, and some don't.  
>This only makes a difference when a character without them plays a character
>with them.  Examples:
>Ryu/Ken's haryuken/fireball
>Guile's sonic kick
>Guile is extremely annoying here - when he gets ahead on damage he can sit
>in a corner charging for boom/kick, and wait for you to jump in over his 
>boom.  If you're too far, no problem, you're not a threat.  If you're medium
>close, he sweeps you as you fall.  If you're close, he sonic kicks you.  It
>is possible with PERFECT timing to get through this with a character without
>range attacks, but the advantage is immense.
>Ryu/Ken are a little better balanced, since they have to push the fireball
>a long ways before they recover, so this isn't absolute, but still.
>
You overestimate.  _Maybe_ it's difficult to get in on a crouching Guile
with Honda or Zangief...I don't play them so I wouldn't know.  But, it's
pretty simple to get close enough to most Guiles at least once by just:
    (1) walking forward:  if they throw a sonic boom, jump straight up
        and keep waking forward
    (2) when you get to the right distance, jump and throw out a strong 
        kick.  Guile gets about halfway into the flash kick when you
        knock him out of it.
I can do this about 80% of the time with both Blanka and Chun Li. 

>A final question:  is it possible *AT ALL* for Blanka to bite a crouch-
>defending person?  Every time I try it I just get a fierce, and get smacked
>for my trouble.  This means that anyone playing Blanka can simply defend
>at the right times and take NO damage from ANYTHING AT ALL except a little
>tick from the cannonball.  Add to this the fact that good players can shake
>off the bite within microseconds, and you're fucked!  Blanka becomes great at
>killing mid-level players, but becomes totally useless when facing an 
>expert of just about anything besides Chun Li, Honda, Vega, and maybe Dhalsim.
>(I don't know about Balrog or Sagat since no one plays them here.)
>
>I'd like to be proved wrong, especially on the last, but right now I'm being
>forced to learn Ken due to these circumstances -- everyone here plays either
>him, Bison, Guile, or Chun Li (the exception -- the guy was Delaware state 
>champion, and I believe it -- he consistently thrashes my Blanka, who is a 
>great anti-Chun character, but a reasonably good Bison will still kill him.)
>Any wizards with counter-strategies (or Blanka ticks) should feel free to
>help the world.  (No fierce-strong/crouching forward suggestions either unless
>you can prove it to be unblockable.)
>

Hmmm. dunno on this one...  find a scrub and tell you that you'll let him
have the round if he'll just let you bit him once.  Then have him sit in a
crouch and try to bite him (shrug).
>// g