HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: prb@chinet.chi.il.us (Paul Botts)
Newsgroups: alt.great-lakes
Subject: GREAT LAKES INFO available
Date: 23 Aug 92 21:18:13 GMT
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX

THE GREAT LAKES INFORMATION SERVICE is now available for ftp!

Fact Sheets about various Great Lakes topics and issues, along with two
years worth of new stories from the Great Lakes Reporter, can be found
via anonymous ftp at nic.cic.net, in the subdirectory
/pub/great-lakes/cgl (where you'll find a readme.txt file which explains
and lists what's available in what subdirectory).

Topics covered by Fact Sheets include Great Lakes water diversion, water
quality, waterfront development, pollution prevention, regional and
international agreements such as the Great Lakes Water QUality
Agreement, and the effects of global warming on the Lakes.
There are Fact SHeets on many of the 43 Great Lakes Areas of Concern,
which are the worst toxic hotspots as designated by the two federal
governments.

The Great Lakes Reporter, a regional newsmagazine published by The
Center for the Great Lakes, covers news, trends, and issues relating the
environment of the Great Lakes ecosystem and the economy of the region,
especially when they interact. You will find every major story that has 
appeared in the Reporter since the start of 1990, listed by subject area
with headlines for easy access and searching. Typical topics include
coverage of the historic regional public meetings held in Traverse City
in October 1991; trends in various key economic sectors around the
Lakes; analysis of current water quality planning and activities by
governments, industry and citizen's groups around the region; waterfront
development aroound the Lakes; "invader" species such as the zebra
mussel; the state and future of the Great Lakes' fishery; the status of
proposals to divert Great Lakes water, and so forth.

The Reporter is a part of the Great Lakes Information Service, a public
service of The Center for the Great Lakes. This ftp access is the first
step in a long-range plan to put the Information Service "on-line"; more
Fact Sheets on more topics will be added, Reporter stories will be
continuously added as they are published, and existing Fact Sheets are
periodically updated by Center researchers.

For more information, or to receive this material by U.S. Mail, send
email to prb@chinet.chi.il.us. The Information Service also responds to
requests for information from researchers, inlcuding searches of our
library, and picking the brains of our brilliant, experienced and modest
staff. Call 312-263-0785 and ask for Paul Botts or Noah Eiger; be sure
and tell us where you heard of us, so we know whether this method of
making the service known is working!
From: plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joel Plutchak)
Newsgroups: alt.great-lakes
Subject: Re: WISCONSIN!!!
Date: 3 Sep 92 21:09:35 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Brown University Planetary Geology
NNTP-Posting-Host: pilsner.geo.brown.edu

In article <kedX01600Uzx02jlZG@andrew.cmu.edu> Christopher Ryan Stengel <cs4v+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Any other Badger fans out there?

   There *are* a few of us expatriot Wisconsites out here.

   Here's something I've always wondered about:  Where, when, and how
did Michigan manage to steal the yoopee, which should by all rights
belong to Wisconsin?  (That oughta get a discussion flowing!)

--
Joel Plutchak, Research Programmer/Analyst
Newsgroups: alt.great-lakes
From: chiquita@camelot.bradley.edu (Stephanie Buffman)
Subject: Re: so... How bout those great lakes?
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date:  2 Sep 92 23:54:37 GMT


Well, John, this is a group that talks about the 
attributes of Michigan, and asks questions related to
tourism and stuff...  I like it.  Being from a little tourist
town on Lake Huron just north of Bay City, I love it.
Btw...where do all ye fellow Michiganders hail from?
Steph

Newsgroups: alt.great-lakes
From: thumper@engin.umich.edu (Bob Topping)
Subject: Re: so... How bout those great lakes?
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 92 12:29:09 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Distribution: usa

In article <Sep.2.21.03.30.1992.9838@math.rutgers.edu> bwalsh@math.rutgers.edu (Bertram Walsh) writes:
>I'm not really complaining, and flames to /dev/null please, but how
>did this group get to be dominated by expatriate Michiganders?  There
>are persistent rumors that other US states and a couple of Canadian
>provinces have Great Lakes shoreline ...
>
  Well, could be because more folks from Michigan post to this group, 
  plain and simple.  :)  We ARE the Great Lakes State, after all.
  Besides, even though the other states have the shoreline, its OUR
  water!  :-{)

  Here's hoping for major snowfall this winter!  (More than 4 feet at 
  least)



-- 
@ "Our lives are better left to chance; +       PLEASE E-Mail to:           @
@  I could have missed the pain, but    +  bob.topping@um.cc.umich.edu      @
@  I'd have had to miss the dance."     +  phy_astrclub@emunix.emich.edu    @
@       -- Garth Brooks, The Dance.     +     ** RETURN OUR HURON! **       @
From: robin@fisher.bio.uci.edu (Robin Bush)
Subject: Re: --- WHY ---
Newsgroups: alt.great-lakes
Reply-To: robin@fisher.bio.uci.edu
Date: 4 Sep 92 15:28:30 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <3SEP199217172873@apsicc.aps.edu> jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...)  
writes:
> Hello All, Steph, Robin, others;
> Time to stop...

No, Jim enough is not enough.  I have yet another  point to make about  
what I liked about Michigan, which probably holds true for much of the  
surrounding area,  such as Wisconsin, with which I am less familiar.  

The extensive lumbering that occurred in Michigan in the late 1800's to  
early 1900's was accompanied by  fires that fed off the abandoned slash.   
Huge amounts of the existing forests were replaced with bare expanses. In  
addition,  many parts of the lower peninsula were cleared for farming,  
which fared from fair to awful, depending on the consistency of the  
glacial till beneath.  As a result of both of these activities (plus  
hunting), many of the larger components of the wildlife, such as wolf,  
bear, bobcat and coyote, basically disappeared from many parts of the  
state.   

Well, the forests have been slowly growing back, especially in the UP and  
northern lower peninsula (why don't we call it the LP?), and a lot of the  
abandoned farmland throughout the state is currently in the shrubby phase  
of regrowth.   As a result, the animals are coming back too.  Sightings of  
wolves in the UP are more common, and  bears and coyotes are extending  
their ranges further south in the LP.  

Of course, the TC area is getting notoriously built up, and suburbs  
continue to sprawl in what we always referred to as the Iron Triangle area  
(GR, Holland, Grand Haven - believe me, it is not the human culture  
aspects I miss about Michigan!) - but, on the whole, wildlife biologists  
consider Michigan to be undergoing a  real come-back compared to a lot of  
other states, where development of a more modern type is currently  
destroying the habitat. You might say that, as far as habitat destruction  
goes, Michigan was a real trend setter, and got into it real early!  

The deterioration of the auto industry and thus the economy of the state  
during my time there lent a depressing aspect to the human side of things.    
However, I always felt that the regrowth of the "natural state" of  
Michigan, which is slow, but definitely noticeable if you pay attention to  
such things, made it a wonderfully upbeat place to live. 


Robin 
Newsgroups: alt.great-lakes
From: chiquita@camelot.bradley.edu (Stephanie Buffman)
Subject: Re: so... How bout those great lakes?
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date:  3 Sep 92 00:42:43 GMT

In <2AA55BF9.230@news.service.uci.edu> robin@fisher.bio.uci.edu (Robin Bush) writes:

>Some, like me, are expatriates who just lurk around waiting for people who  
>are lucky enough to  live in the Great Lakes area to talk about it. It is  
>an occasional  nostalgia fix for me, so far from home out here in the  
>"greater" Los Angeles area. 

You too?
I am here in unsunny illinois.  As a matter of fact, in Peoria where
it smells NOTHING like pine trees and freshwater, like I was used to 
living on Lake Huron.  And there are also 124,451 more people.
=(
I love my school, but I count the days until my friends and I can
visit...they love it there too.
Steph


>Robin Bush
>Univ. of California, Irvine
>..where there are no fall colors, blueberries, cold weather, or rivers.
From: cjt1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Charles Ten Brink)
Newsgroups: alt.great-lakes
Subject: Michiganders
Date: 4 Sep 92 13:45:55 GMT
Reply-To: cjt1@midway.uchicago.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In the last flurry of nostalgic posts, I noticed that most of us refer
to ourselves as Michiganders.  I seem to recall that, in the recent past
one of our governors (Blanchard?) tried to get people to use the term
"Michiganian" (insert favorite expression of distaste here.)  Has that
died out, and are we now secure in our ancestral name?
--Chuck Ten Brink

-- 
D'Angelo Law Library         "The dogmas of the quiet past are
cjt1@midway.uchicago.edu      inadequate to the stormy present. . .
uclcjt1@uchimvs1              We must disenthrall ourselves."
Newsgroups: alt.great-lakes
From: jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante)
Subject: Re: so... How bout those great lakes?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 02:48:38 GMT


It seems that ex-Michiganders dominate this group. And well we should.
After all, michigan bounds 4 of the 5 great lakes. I live in Ohio now, which,
granted, is a great lakes state, but it ain't the same. Flat. No water.
More hot, less snow. Where I grew up (Muskegon county), there were 9 
state or municipal parks with lakefront beach.  A small pond or a dingy
river is an exciting cite in central ohio.

I went back to visit some friends a few weeks ago, and made a special 
effort to get lots of blueberries (they're gone now, :(  ) 
as well as to make a visit to Lake Michigan (Van Burean State Park).
Still a great lake, but it appears that at least on that beach, there's
been significant sand erosion -- lots of stones, like I would expect
at Superior. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
john r la plante                    calling from the Ohio State University
jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  political analysis done while you wait

Newsgroups: alt.great-lakes
From: jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante)
Subject: Joys of Battle Creek (was: Re: So... how bout those great lakes?) 
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 23:11:10 GMT

In article <NZm-R7@engin.umich.edu> stiemsma@engin.umich.edu (John David Stiemsma ) writes:

>Im from the thriving metropolis of Battle Creek (otherwise known
>as Kelloggville) where the air smells like Fruit Loops 24hrs a day!

 Sorry to blow the reputation of BC, John, but I worked downtown in the
 Federal Center for 5 years. BC doesn't always smell like Fruit Loops.
 Sometimes it smells like dog food meal, coming from the Ralston-Purina
 plant, just down the road from the Federal (used to be Dr. Kellog's Hospital)
 Center.

 I've heard you could get a pretty decent smell from the Bill Knap's
 food factory in Lakeview, BC.
 
 But I didn't spent much non-work time in BC, as I lived in Kalamazoo, 
 where our "smell of money" was the pungent Upjohn company.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
john r la plante                    calling from the Ohio State University
jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  political analysis done while you wait

Newsgroups: alt.great-lakes
From: knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp)
Subject: Re: WISCONSIN!!!
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 00:50:33 GMT

In article <kedX01600Uzx02jlZG@andrew.cmu.edu> Christopher Ryan Stengel <cs4v+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Just my 2 dollars worth.
>
>U RA RA WIS CON SIN!!! U RA RA WIS CON SIN!!!
>
>(Milwaukee is actually just as cool, but I'll go with the whole
>state as my vote)
>
>Any other Badger fans out there?

Sure! (but I sure don't have anything against Michi-dudes. I love the UP.
Fine state. Fine state.)

I do miss scuba diving in WI lakes and quarries. I *don't* miss 6 months
of gray sky though. Must have the psychological disorder with light. 
What'sitcalled...

I miss hanging around with folks that appreciate beer and brats.  Ya just
dohn't see dat enee wear elts hey!

-- 
David Knapp                                      University of Colorado, Boulder
Perpetual Student                                   knapp@spot.colorado.edu
From: bletts@teal.csn.org (Barbra Letts)
Newsgroups: alt.great-lakes
Subject: Ex-michiganders
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:07:53 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.

I'm out here stuck in Colorado, known for all the natural beauty and mountains,
and _still_ miss Michigan.  When I think of home, I think of Lake Superior.

Grew up in Marquette, and wish I could get a job to support myself up there.

Sniffle-sniffle.
Newsgroups: alt.great-lakes
From: colette@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Colette Marine)
Subject: Re: so... How bout those great lakes?
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 02:08:01 GMT

In <Sep.2.21.03.30.1992.9838@math.rutgers.edu> bwalsh@math.rutgers.edu (Bertram Walsh) writes:

>Bertram Walsh  Mathematics Dep't  Rutgers University New Brunswick NJ 08903
> [Pre-statehood Michigan settler stock -- Swartz Creek & Westphalia 1830s]
>   There are now over 800 Kirtland's warblers in Michigan in the summer!
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And they're all out by *my* house, I might add!
Newsgroups: alt.dads-rights,alt.child-support,soc.men,soc.women,misc.kids
From: tanner@sundog.nas.nasa.gov (Leigh Ann Tanner)
Subject: Re: Remote (Taxpayer) Wallets
Organization: Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation Facility NASA
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 15:58:11 GMT
Reply-To: tanner@sundog.nas.nasa.gov (Leigh Ann Tanner)

In article <1992Sep3.224314.6484@u.washington.edu>, hamton@byron.u.washington.edu (MrEuStress) writes:
|> I wrote:
|>      "It's my choice and I'll thank you and
|>       your government to not financially rape me."
|> 
|> Judy Leedom Tyrer wrote:
|>      "But I have little sympathy for the "walking wallet" 
|>       complaint when you choose to allow your child to 
|>       live in the street and beg for his supper!!!"
|> 
|>   So you want to financially gang rape me because
|>   "my children are dying"?
|> 
|>   There are beter sources of help then me.
|>   If you care so much then I'll give you
|>   their address and you can send them money.
|> 
|>   "My children" (as you are wont to call them) 
|>   live in a home that makes about $70,000 per year 
|>   -- I make about $4,000 per year.

So?????
Newsgroups: alt.dads-rights,alt.child-support,soc.men,soc.women,misc.kids
From: holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman)
Subject: Re: Impact of the absent father
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 23:43:39 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalno.fnal.gov
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Aug25.034455.24878@cbnewsk.cb.att.com>, 
noraa@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (aaron.l.hoffmeyer) writes:
> Source: USA Today, August 24, 1992
> 
> By Marilyn Elias
> 
> Murphy Brown's baby is likely to be as well-behaved and academically
> successful in elementary school as traditionally reared kids, suggests a
> study out Sunday.

So the anecdote is Murphy Brown's kid...

>       * When moms' education and income were taken into
> 	account, there was no difference in math and reading
> 	skills between kids living with and without a father.
> 
>       *	Low income and poor education predicted trouble
>         adjustment far more than parents' marital status.
> 
> Critics of one-parent families are fingering the wrong culprits, Mott
> argues.
> 
> "We need to get mothers better educated and boost income, because it's
> this rather than having a father at home that affects kids the most."
> 
> But the findings were challenged by divorce researcher Judith
> Wallerstein of Corte Madera, Calif.
> 
> Because Mott didn't do open-ended interviews with the children, and
> didn't contact fathers, he easily could have missed emotional trauma
> inflicted by divorce, she says.
> 
> Mothers' behavioral reports are often biased.
> 
> And it's not meaningful to separate the influences of income and
> marital status - because divorced women as a whole are so much poorer
> than wives, she says.

... was some analysis

> You see, to Mr. Mott, children don't need fathers - they need rich,
> well-educated mothers.  How do we get such things?  Lots and lots of
> child-support to pay for lots of Fisher-Price stuff and alimony to pay
> for moms' getting educations, perhaps?

Actually, Aaron, the Brown reference indicated to me that he was talking about
getting single mothers well-paying jobs.
 
> You know it.  Mott's simply flouting the standard "Women good, men bad"
> rhetoric of modern-day - oh, I hate to say it - "feminism" - and writing
> dad out of the picture as some unneeded sperm donor.

This was not clear from the article.  I think you're reading more into it than
was there.
 
-- 
Daniel B. Holzman                    | Eight Words the Witch's Rede Fufill:
HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET                  | An It Harm None, Do What You Will
HOLZMAN@FNALC.FNAL.GOV.INTERNET      |
                                     | All Acts of Love and Pleasure are
Love doesn't subtract,               | Her Rituals
   it multiplies    - Heinlein       |
                                     | Speak the Word.
Disclaimer:  Fermilab's far too large to have an opinion, let alone mine.
Xref: sparky alt.dads-rights:2165 alt.child-support:3004 soc.men:15772 soc.women:16011 misc.kids:22268
From: jim@jimmc.chi.il.us (Jim McNicholas)
Newsgroups: alt.dads-rights,alt.child-support,soc.men,soc.women,misc.kids
Subject: Re: Remote (Taxpayer) Wallets
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:01:47 GMT
Reply-To: jim@jimmc.chi.il.us (Jim McNicholas)
Organization: Prime Time Productions Aurora, Illinois

hamton@byron.u.washington.edu (MrEuStress) writes:

> Bronis Vidugiris writes
> >It's logical that you don't want the taxpayer to be a 
> > remote wallet either, IMO.
> 
>    Only if the larger population of taxpayers
>    choose to pay the Child Support!
> 
>    The taxpayers have no right to financially
>    rape some one who does not wish to be a dad.
> 
>    Volition my boy!  Learn it and *** LIVE ***.
     ^^^^^^^^ for those of us being used for our wallets the
word I would use is Violation!! Because I feel violated everytime I get a 
paycheck and 60% of my net is gone!!!
out of 30 I get maybe 13 thousand sorry but that's being used!!


____________________________________________________________________________
|jim@jimmc.chi.il.us   |   ...And I believe in long, slow, deep, soft wet  |
|Prime Time Productions| kisses that last three days...good night...OH MY! |
|Aurora, IL. 60504     |        -crash davis to annie savoy in BULL DURHAM-|
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Newsgroups: alt.dads-rights
From: kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy)
Subject: Re: Right To Not Support
Organization: Who, me???
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 00:06:37 GMT

In article <VIXIE.92Aug13110450@cognition.pa.dec.com> vixie@pa.dec.com (Paul A Vixie) writes:
>[alan]
>>	The point involved the balance of control between men & women
>>	in the conception and eventual birth of a child.
>>
>>	*Both* have a choice at conception; only the woman has
>>	any subsequent say.  The balance is off.
>
>That's also true.  But both have(*) to participate in conception, while
>only the woman has(*) to participate in pregnancy/birth, and neither has(*)
>to participate in raising the child.
>
>So the balance of control is off.  Yes, it is.  Indeed so.  So, now what?

So we try to correct the balance as much as possible by removing or reducing
the destructive, poorly-circumscribed and corrupting power of one partner to 
screw(*) the other partner for life, and probably herself and/or the kid in 
the process. Isn't that solution obvious by now, Paul? You seem a little slow 
on the uptake.

>(*)Note--speaking biologically/physically here, not morally/legally.

(*)Note--speaking morally/legally here, not biologically/physically.

								- Kevin
Xref: sparky alt.dads-rights:2175 alt.child-support:3022 soc.men:15833 soc.women:16058 misc.kids:22379 misc.legal:16834
From: slarsen@berlin.helios.nd.edu (susan larsen)
Newsgroups: alt.dads-rights,alt.family-law,alt.child-support,soc.men,soc.women,misc.kids,misc.legal
Subject: Re: Grandparents' Rights/48 Hours
Date: 2 Sep 92 14:03:44 GMT
Organization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame

In article <1992Sep01.153521.9585@disk.uucp> gayle@disk.uucp (Gayle) writes:
>
> I believe everyone has a motive for doing what they do, I just wonder what the
>motive is in these other cases. My ex-mother-in-law says she cares, but I'll be
>damned if she has ever shown it in the past. I have offered for them to see the 
>youngest child, in a public place, all they have to do is call. They have yet
>to call. What do I tell the kids when I get older and they have lost interest,
>"Sorry kids, they said they cared, just not enough to call?"
>Where is justice?
>

Gayle, 

I was moved by your story.  I, too am experiencing a lot of troubles with 
my daughter's grandmother.  My folks are long dead, this makes Iris's 
grandmother her only living grandparent.  Iris loves her grandmother and 
had what I thought was a strong relationship with the woman some years ago.
I have been divorced/separated from my ex for seven years and in that time 
a very positive relationship between me and the ex has evolved, based on 
our love for Iris.  However, his mother insists on casting me as the 
"bad guy" at every turn.  

I have tried everything I can think of:  I have offered to take Iris to 
her house, to have her come to my house, to leave my house, to pay for 
phone calls.  I have invited her to family meals at my house.  I have 
invited her on outings. She won't have any of it.  She claims that every 
suggestion I make is based solely on my own interest!  Sheesh.  I just 
want my kid to know her grandmother......

Just recently, she allowed a nephew to move into her home.  This nephew 
had recently served two years plus on a child molestation charge.  My ex-
husband delivered the news to me.  I told him that I could not allow 
Iris over to grandmother's house while this man was living there.  My 
ex agreed completely and said "I expected no less from you."  I again 
recited offers to have grandmother over, etc. etc. etc.  My ex said that
nothing would work, that his mother won't even respond to his pleas 
for reason.  The woman will just go on hating me, blaming me.....which 
I could personally care less.  But the woman is hurting her grand-
daughter, her only grandchild.

I say little or nothing to Iris about all this.  What could I say? 
There is nothing at all positive I could say.

Sometimes I wish there was a way for grandparents who are deprived 
access to their grandchildren because of hateful parents to
"adopt" the children whose own grandparents have abandoned them. 
So much love that seems to be going to waste.....

Sue Larsen
slarsen@berlin.helios.nd.edu
Xref: sparky alt.dads-rights:2194 alt.child-support:3045 soc.men:15947 soc.women:16154 misc.kids:22580