HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: paulg@microsoft.com (Paul Goode)
Subject: Re: Spurs, etc.
Date: 30 Dec 92 21:27:33 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Summary: Spurs reply

In article <1992Dec29.235634.11691@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami) writes:
> paulg@microsoft.com (Paul Goode) writes:
> >Tarkanian [...]
> >was left with holding together a group of reserves that by no means
> >included a NBA-calibre starting point guard. 
> 
> A group of reserves?!  Surely you don't include David Robinson,
>

Hey, after 3.5 years on r.s.b.pro, can't I have a little rhetorical
license? The point is, that the Spurs lost three starters, and are
starting players (Ellis and Carr) that they had projected as bench
depth. And I think that at this point in Dale Ellis' career, he
is good enough to be a role player on a top-flight team. He may 
be able to start for a lesser club, but not for a contender.
 Sean Elliott and Dale Ellis in that group?
> 
> Okay.  I'll grant you that the Spurs lineup is lacking.  But they have
> a lot to build on and it's silly to put all the onus on the point
> guard, or lack of one.
> 
> Nobody has a perfect lineup (except the 86 Celtics) and yet teams do
> win championships, if they know how to utilize their strengths.  Why,
> just recently a team with Paxson at PG and Cartwright at center won a
> championship or two.
> 

Point taken. However, I don't believe that Red Auerbach could
coach this club to a championship without a better starting 
backcourt. The current group is either slow, one-dimensional, or
both. None of them contribute defensively on a steady basis.
So far, this has prevented the Spurs from utilizing their
strong suit -- the speed in their frontcourt: With no one
to initiate fast breaks, the Spurs have been stuck in an
unproductive halfcourt offense. However, maybe John Lucas will
have some better answers than Jerry Tarkanian.

If/when Willie Anderson returns, maybe the club should reopen
talks with Milwaukee re Alvin Robertson. Neither Alvin nor Willie 
plays point, but both do play defense and both can do more than
one thing with the ball. And neither player lacks for speed.

Paul
From: terra@reed.edu (Terra Goodnight)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Clippers steal one at the Garden
Date: 3 Jan 93 04:26:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1993Jan3.042656.27550
Organization: ucla biochemistry

Clippers beat the Knicks in Overtime by one at the Gahden.  (oops, GARden, 
wrong city).  A close game all the way, Knicks took a lead in the fourth and
Clips managed to tie it, but couldn't put the game away in regulation with
2.7 on the clock.  In OT Stanley Roberts fouled out (the fact that he _made
it_ to overtime is an amazing fact indeed, probably the longest he's taken
to foul out all year.)  At one point, he blew by Patrick Ewing on the baseline
for the jam, so it looks like he's learning how to really make that fat move.

There was some serious bad blood between ex-teammates Mark Jackson and just 
about all the Knicks, but especially Starks it seems.  Lots of technicals
called.  The sweetest play to end it is Clippers with time running out to come
from a point down was big John Williams getting the ball, driving the basket
and dishing it out to a somewhat hestitant Gary Grant who hit the jumper to 
put it away at the buzzer.  The final score was somewhere in the neighborhood
of 96-95 or 97-96.  In overtime!  Those Knicks sure know how to blow a team's
scoring average.

Damn.  Definitely the best game I've seen all year and definitely makes up for 
that Christmas day embarassment against the Spurs. Clippers had just gone
2 for their last 7 (most of which were at home, except for a jaunt up to 
no-cal), and really needed this win to start their longest road trip so far
(6 games against mostly playoff teams).  Tomorrow: Boston.

Terra
From: rc@hal.COM (Rolland Crunk)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: What is the scoop on Laetner?
Date: 30 Dec 92 22:38:54 GMT
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: malibog.hal.com

In article <1992Dec30.223033.2840@news.acns.nwu.edu> jlesgold@pangaea.earth.nwu.edu (Jacob Lesgold) writes:
>In article <1ht7giINN8vb@malibog.hal.COM> rc@hal.COM (Rolland Crunk) writes:
>>
>>From USA Today 12/29/92 (abbreviated):
>>
>>		    G  fg fga  fg%  ft fta  ft% 3fg 3fga reb as st to bl ppg 
>>	---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>	Laettner   22 148 393 .502 118 145 .814   3   13 181 41 19 75 27 19.0
>
>But in this case, the stats don't add up.  148/393=.377.  
>

Ooops, you are right, I transposed Chuck Person's fga in place of
Christian Laettner's.

Here is the corrected line:

		    G  fg fga  fg%  ft fta  ft% 3fg 3fga reb as st to bl ppg 
	---------------------------------------------------------------------
	Laettner   22 148 295 .502 118 145 .814   3   13 181 41 19 75 27 19.0


rc
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: vince@paradyne.com (Vince Ciletti)
Subject: Re: Bulls vs. Knicks!
Organization: AT&T Paradyne, Largo, Florida
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 22:08:43 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.153751.22802@shearson.com> bprisco@shearson.com writes:
>
  [insults toward Knick players from a babbling Knick hater - deleted]
>
>
>	>[more insults from a babbling Bull fan - deleted]
>
>   >[and some praises about how great Michael is - deleted]
>
>Pretty harsh words considering that the Knicks are probably one of
>the top 3 teams in the east.
>
>Granted, they're not pretty and the 3 amigos do come off as cocky bastards,
>but they get the job done (especially on defense). 
>
>Riley's doing a pretty damm good job with his crew. We'd like to
>see some more finess on this team, open the court up a little more,
>and maintain the best defense in the NBA.
>
>Last and not least, I'd like to see them kick Chicago's jordan-ass in the 
>playoffs!
>I'm a Jordan fan (who isn't?) but my loyalty goes to the Knicks.

And let's not forget the 37 point humiliation that the Knicks put on 
Da Bulls in the Garden... sure Jordan was not at 100% after turning his 
ankle, but I recall most people agreeing (including devote Bulls fans) 
that the Knicks pretty much dominated the game, ankle or not (Jordan 
still played most of the game, but was mostly ineffective).

I watched the game on X-mas night, and it seems to me that New York
dominated most of the first half, but were completely dominated by Chicago
in the second half.  A better description is that the Knicks disappeared.  
But, Chicago disappeared the ENTIRE game in New York.  I don't recall any 
name calling towards Pippin, Grant and company after that game.
The bottom line is: two good teams have beaten each other once - no skin.

Knick-haters can do all the name calling they want.  The fact is, time
is on the Knicks side.  Remember all the talk in the pre-season about how 
long it would take to get all the new faces to play together?  This team 
has played 25 games together, and is in the class of the NBA elite already! 
They should only get better as the season progresses.

Vince
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: 86 Celtics v. 92 Bulls
From: bcimmet@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 20 Dec 92 23:15:28 EST
Organization: Wesleyan University

Oops. I deleted the byline. Sorry. This is a response to the only response so
far to my original post of "86 Celtics v. 92 Bulls". Sorry for the
inconvenience.

[lots of stuff regarding my original article about a simulated season between
those two teams...]

> Huh...that's not what I would expect at all.  The Celtics of that year have got
> to be one of the all-time greatest teams of all time.  Even after they were
> devastated a year later with injuries, they still won 59 (and they won 67 in
> '85-'86).  They were #1 in defensive FG% and #1 in rebounding and they lost
> only one homecourt game the entire season.  Plus, where's Danny Ainge and
> Scott Wedman in those stats?
> 
> Those Celtics could really play the D...DJ and McHale were all-defensive
> players, and now everyone has visions of all of those guys getting killed off
> of the dribble.  Even Bird was an ok defender.  I can't see him getting held
> down to 22 ppg, and I can't see anyone stopping McHale.
> 

Well, I can't really explain it. The game isn't spectacular, but it does work
quite closely to reality. Unfortunately, one of the major drawbacks is that the
computer-as-coach feature for the game makes it so that each player on the
roster will play however many minutes they averaged in the season. So even if
it's a tight game, you might see David Thirdkill taking the last shot for the
Celtics. That obviously wouldn't happen in real life, so that does affect
things quite a bit.

> ...Plus, where's Danny Ainge and Scott Wedman in those stats?

	Well, Ainge actually only averaged about 5 points a game. He had
horrendous shooting, but remember that he was being guarded by Michael Jordan,
who is a 1st-Team All-Defense of his own. Scott Wedman was good for about 7
points per game off the bench... I inadvertently left him out. And as for the
home court thing for the C's. I did the simulation in neutral territory, so the
home-court was ignored. Howver, I don't think that something like the "Celtic
Mystique" on the parquet comes through in the game. The best it can do is look
at an average home-court advantage (say, 8% better FG shooting, or +5.2 ppg)
and applies it to the home team. Also, I only played 100 games, so perhaps it
needs more.
	I won't have access to my computer until about Jan. 15, but if you'd
like I could run off a 1000 game season complete with home & away stuff, and
we'll see how the teams fare then. K.O.?

					- Brian
From: kompella@cs.ucsd.edu (Vachaspathi Kompella)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: NBA Salaries '92
Date: 21 Dec 92 22:22:53 GMT
Organization: CSE Dept., UC San Diego


In article <1992Dec21.183855.14988@unislc.uucp>, gsd@unislc.uucp (Greg Dodd) writes:

|> 4.		Valde Divac		3.633

Wow, no wonder he's playing better this year!

|> 1992 NBA payrolls.
|> 
|> 22.		New York		14.000

Now this is something to think about.  I think it speaks for the coach when
you have such a lowly paid team and you get the performance that the Knicks
have demonstrated.  Riley is really not getting enough credit for the results
he's getting.  There's no Kareem or Magic on the Knicks so what's the excuse
this time, Patrick Ewing?  Greg Anthony?

|> Greg

-Vach

Lakers all the way!!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: bprisco@shearson.com (Bobby Prisco)
Subject: Re: Bulls vs. Knicks!
Reply-To: bprisco@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 13:29:31 GMT

In article HwL@news.cso.uiuc.edu, jcp29389@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (I Spike - Therefore I Am) writes:
> 
> u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei) writes:
> 
> >Pat Riley messed things up too.  I don't know why he left Greg Anthony out
> >to get his butt messed up by the Bulls' trap.  How many straight times did
> >he turn the ball over for dunks?  Riley is supposed to know how to get out
> >of traps, they weren't that tough.  Maybe sometimes he needs Rivers and Anthony
> >out there at the same time because Blackman and Starks don't dribble too well.
> >After scoring 10 easy points the first half, the Knicks forgot to set up
> >Charles Smith.  Give Starks less playing time!  That boy just can't resist
> >shooting.  Maybe play a tape of his teammate, Blackman to teach him about
> >shot selection.  If Ro had been given more time, he would have outplayed Jordan
> >from a shooting standpoint.  One additional thing...Doc Rivers has offensive
> >potential, unlike Anthony.  He can drive to the hoop, but he never looks to do
> >so.  If he could do that, he could create for his teammates, but Riley seems
> >to favor an offense with no one on one play.
> 
> All those championships that Riley won mean nothing, he sucks.  I think this
> guy here should be the Knick's coach.  He certanly knows what he's talking
> about.
> 
> >Chicago has immense problems to overcome as well if they are to threepeat.
> >Michael Jordan shooting 40% on route to a 35 point game isn't going to do it.
> >B.J. Armstrong isn't the answer at point, and Scottie Pippen...any more
> >questions on how he didn't deserve to be an Olympian?  Every other Olympian
> >could take charge on the court...heck, even Christian Laettner is having a
> >better season than Pippen.  Why does he look like such a wimp out there?
> >There definitely isn't a Knick he couldn't take it to the hole against, but
> >again he settled for dump off shots.  16 points from him and virtually nothing
> >from the other Bulls isn't the answer to a championship.
> 
> The fact that they won two championships in a row, plus the success so far
> this year means nothing, they suck.  They definitely should listen to this guy
> and make some major trades, maybe for some more "olympians".
> 
> have a nice day
> 
> -- 
>    _/    _/   _/_/_/		Jay Pardee
>   _/    _/     _/		pardee@cs.uiuc.edu	University of Illinois
>    _/_/     _/_/_/					 Urbana-Champaign



Way to go, Jay. Remember, don't limit this guys salary cause
he's an unbelievalble coaching talent!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU (Terry Wong)
Subject: Re: Culture comes to USENET (was Re: Jordan & Pippen: No Olympics)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 93 00:21:50 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.151940.1192@ll.mit.edu>, nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith) writes:
|> In article <OLIVER.92Dec31020449@ballard1.mit.edu> oliver@athena.mit.edu (James D. Oliver III) writes:
|> >
|> >Well, Barkley didn't have the playoffs to deal with, so he got a few weeks
|> >of a break before the Olympics.  I don't think it's coincidence that the
|> >other Olympian who's in bad shape right now is Clyde Drexler.
|> >____________________________
|> >	Jim Oliver  
|> 
|> maybe you guys ARE on to something...let's see:
|> 
|> Michael Jordan.........sore
|> Scottie Pippen.........sore, numbers "down"
|> Clyde Drexler..........ow
|> Charles Barkley........no playoffs, doin' fine
|> David Robinson.........thumbed out of playoffs, not so sparkling
|> Patrick Ewing..........thumb II, now doing "vanishing" act
|> Karl Malone............hmmmmm, doin' fine
|> Chris Mullin...........ow
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> John Stockton..........good thing he broke that leg then, huh?
|> Magic Johnson..........HIV+, bad rumours, then RETIRED
|> Larry Bird.............played with sore back, then RETIRED
|> Christian Laettner.....just a kid, short college season, doin' fine
|> 

What kind of crap is this?  Mullin has been healthy all year except for
a sore leg he had for a couple of games in December.  In fact, he is
having his best year ever, and has been consistently the Warriors' best
player all year.  He is scoring almost 29 points per game, 2nd in the NBA
behind Jordan, and making some unbelievable shots nightly.  

This excuse is without merit.  Mullin said himself that his personal
training program is more taxing than what he went through in the Olympics.

				terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU
From: kompella@cs.ucsd.edu (Vachaspathi Kompella)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: 76ers need BIG-time help!!!!!!!!
Date: 21 Dec 92 22:05:05 GMT
Organization: CSE Dept., UC San Diego


In article <1992Dec19.215211.20015@midway.uchicago.edu>, epc1@quads.uchicago.edu (Merlin) writes:
|> In article <1992Dec18.225502.1@wharton.upenn.edu> reille85@wharton.upenn.edu writes:
|> >HERE'S A TRADE....
|> >
|> >The Philadelphia 76ers badly need many, many, many things.  They happen to have
|> >an overabundance of "2" guards (Hawkins, Hornacek, Dawkins)   So, here goes.
|> >How about...
|> >	Jeff Hornacek, Armon Gilliam, and Johnny Dawkins to Cleveland for
|> >Mark Price, "Hot Rod" Williams, and a #1 draft pick.
|> >
|> >     or Hornacek, Gilliam, and Dawkins to Seattle for Payton and McKey.
|> >
|> >THE 76ers need help BADLY!!!!
|> 
|> They do need help.  Look how poorly they're doing without Barkeley.  I knew
|> his presence would be missed.  And look how well the Suns are doing WITH him!
|> This is just another reminder how many mistakes Katz has made in his lifetime.
|> 
|> WHY OH WHY IS BEING A PHILLY FAN SO DIFFICULT?  The Eagles are great with
|> a bad owner.  The Sixers are bad with a nice but incompetent owner.
|> AND neither teams are doing as well as if they had a decent, intelligent
|> owner.


Naah!  They don't need any help.  Look, they beat the Bulls!  Isn't that
a measure of greatness, huh, all you Bulls fans?  What do you say?

-Vach

Lakers all the way!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: mark@tc.fluke.COM (Mark D. Nagel)
Subject: Re: NBA Salaries '92
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:29:27 GMT

In <1992Dec21.233037.8828@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> kayman@csd-d-5.Stanford.EDU (Robert Kayman) writes:

>I am interested in which article you got this information.  If MJ makes more
>than Hot Rod Williams why was that during the playoffs the announcers made
>such a big deal about Williams making more than Jordan and not putting up
>even close to Jordan's figures?!?!  I believe the artivle may be slightly

I don't think that it is fair to compare Jordan's salary with other players.
Michael isn't concerned with this chicken feed anyway. The guy makes ~ 36 mil
a year. Like 3 - 4 mil is any big deal. What if Jordan didn't get paid by the
Bulls, would one say that Barkley is a dog because he gets paid more than
Jordan?

Conclusion -- Jordan's salary would be quite a bit higher (and justifiably so)
if he didn't have all those endorsements. Also, I don't think that Hot Rod is
worth what he is being paid; glad Seattle didn't sign him, but as a result they
got Benjamin -- oh well!
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: lange@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Trent Lange)
Subject: Re: Jordan & Pippen: No Olympics
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 93 04:14:42 GMT

In article <1993Jan2.183905.22101@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei) writes:
>In article <1992Dec30.221708.21896@ll.mit.edu> nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith) writes:
>
>This is true.  Any other Dream Teamers suffering from the extra summer of
>"play?" (when you romp by 50 in every game and play 20 minutes...)  Barkley,
>Malone, Robinson, Laettner, Mullin, Stockton (who got injured) are all doing
>just fine.  Patrick Ewing is a bit off, and Drexler had knee surgery.  Huh,
>it doesn't seem like Jordan and Pippen have an excuse.

That's not true.  All that extra golf during the Olympics really just wore
poor Jordan out.  Not to mention all the mental stress of having to play
second fiddle in the press to Magic...

It's a wonder Jordan can play now after all that stress at all...

- Trent Lange

-- 
*************************************************************************
*     UCLA:  We used to be good, so maybe we could be again someday.    *
*************************************************************************
From: robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: La Lakers
Date: 21 Dec 1992 18:49:07 GMT
Organization: Your Guess Is As Good As Mine...
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: itro7s.aero.org

In article <1h2q9hINNms3@handy.usc.edu> haghighi@handy.usc.edu (Manouchehr Haghighi) writes:
|This is my 9 years old son's article.
|Any respond is welcome.
|
|Laker is playing well with Sedale Threat. But not with 
|James Worthy because he's missing a lot of shots.
|James needs to practice at his shots. He is good at outside
|shots. Sedale needs to help worthy at his shots.
|Worthy is a good passer. Sedale Threat should go to
|all star. Laker is not going to trade Sedale.
|Divac shoots like a guard. Edward shows Divac to
|do his turn around jumper.
|Lakers might win championship of NBA.

Hell, this is no less intelligent than anything written
by most other Laker fans.......and I'M A LAKER FAN.

I was out of town for the Disaster in Dallas, and I mis-programmed
my VCR  :-(     It's DISGRACEFUL that they lost, and I HOPE that
Pfund REALLY let them have it afterwards. Hell, I hope he let them
have it DURING the game........

The murdering by Phoenix is easier to take.......a bit. I mean,
the Suns are currently the best team in the league (it is
FRIGHTENING to think how they'll play when KJ returns), but
the Lakers were PATHETIC and should have made a better showing.

Hopefully the win at Denver signals a return to form.....

		R.S.


Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: jntlp@acad3.alaska.edu
Subject: Re: Bulls vs. Knicks! & Bulls bench
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 16:37:51 GMT

> And let's not forget the 37 point humiliation that the Knicks put on 
> Da Bulls in the Garden... sure Jordan was not at 100% after turning his 
> ankle, but I recall most people agreeing (including devote Bulls fans) 
> that the Knicks pretty much dominated the game, ankle or not (Jordan 
> still played most of the game, but was mostly ineffective).

I doubt anyone has forgotten it.
 
> I watched the game on X-mas night, and it seems to me that New York
> dominated most of the first half, but were completely dominated by Chicago
> in the second half.  A better description is that the Knicks disappeared.  
> But, Chicago disappeared the ENTIRE game in New York.  I don't recall any 
> name calling towards Pippin, Grant and company after that game.
> The bottom line is: two good teams have beaten each other once - no skin.

The Knicks disappeared?  A better description than Chicago dominated the
Knicks?  Boy, that wasn't the way it looked to me.  Remember the stat they
flashed on the screen early in the 2nd half:  Knicks had 4 possessions, 4
turnovers in 2nd half.  I didn't see Starks saying, "Here, Scottie, I'm tired
of dribbling this thing, you have it for awhile."  The Bulls played wonderful
defense.

It looked to me like for the 1st 6 quarters of the last 2 games, Chicago was
worrying about how to score against NY's defense, but then the last 2 quarters,
Chicago realized, "Hey, NY is a weak team offensively speaking.  Rather than
focus on scoring on their defense, let's focus on stopping their pathetic
offense." 

> Knick-haters can do all the name calling they want.  The fact is, time
> is on the Knicks side.  Remember all the talk in the pre-season about how 
> long it would take to get all the new faces to play together?  This team 
> has played 25 games together, and is in the class of the NBA elite already! 
> They should only get better as the season progresses.
> 
> Vince
I'm no Knick hater (okay, maybe Starks), and I thought they proved themselves
NBA elite in the play-offs last year.  They got *my* respect anyway.

Time is on the Bulls' side too though.  McCray, Tucker, Cory Williams, and
Paxon should all contribute more as the season wears on.

BTW:  I think the Bulls miss their old bench more than they know.  Sure, Tucker
and C. Williams are better players than Hodges and Hansen, (I don't like McCray
yet, Livingston was better), but one thing Chicago's old bench did REALLY well
is cheer... they kept the Bulls from flatness even when they weren't playing. 
Remember all those great camera shots of Hansen and Hodges and "Good News"
celebrating/cheering courtside?  McCray, Tucker and Williams are much more
mellow.  At least some of the Bulls flatness this year has to come from this.

Tom L. Pittman
CCTHITA

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro