HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Israel must return the deportees!
Date: 1 Jan 93 12:04:11 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <4791@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>
aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:

>In article <1992Dec31.050605.14968@newshub.ccs.yorku.ca>
wc4209@writer.yorku.ca (Irene Berkovich) writes:

>>
>>Sorry British Israel-hating Jew (BIHJ),  you're wrong again.  Most of
>>the territory of Palestine was *not* seized in 1948.  It was *ceded*
>>in 1922 by the British to Abdullah, the grandfather of the present
>>King of Jordan.  This land mass constitutes 76% of Palestine, and was
>>originally called TransJordan.  The name was later changed to Jordan
>>in order to erase any identification with Palestine.  Even today
>>Jordann has a *majority* Palestinian population.  So the Palestinians
>>*do* have a Palestine.  Unfortunately, it's being ruled by a Saudi
>>(Hashemite) who has no business ruling there.  So they definitely have
>>a case for a Palestinian state in Jordan.
>
>I hate to quote Hitler, but he did say that if you tell a lie long
                 ^^^^^
>enough, people begin to believe it.

It was Joseph Geobles not Hitler - the figure Arab so admire.

>>I think Israel is entitled to keep its 24% of 'Palestine' as a Jewish
>>country.
>
>So, by this logic, the other 76% belongs to the Palestinians.

NO!
 If someone stoll 76 % of your property and you declare your right to
hild the 24% it does NOT implies  the right of the stoller on the 76%.
>
>Anisa
>
>P.S.  I hear that Irene means peace in Greek ...
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
P.S                ANISA means  RAPPING in Hebrew .

Gideon Ehrlich    ERETS YISRAEL    we shell over come.



Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: WHY?
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 21:53:45 GMT

aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:

>In article <1992Dec27.155842.19790@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il> fedimit@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il (Dan Nabutovsky) writes:
>>>What do people want in the middle east? Why are they not satisfied?
>>>Why hasn't a solution been found?
>>
>>   Because Moslem fanatics want to destroy Israel,
>>and Israel doesn't want to be destroyed.

>Actually, on the other side of the coin, because Israeli
>fanatics want to destroy Palestinians, and Palestinians don't
>want to be destroyed.

There may be a few Israeli fanatics who would like to get rid of the
Palestinian Arabs, but (a) there are very few of them, (b) they don't
have any power, and (c) whenever any of them do anything, they get
arrested by the Israeli government.

Now, on the other side (Arab) of the coin, the fanatics are in charge
of the asylum.
-- 
Alan H. Stein                     astein@israel.nysernet.org
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hm@cs.brown.edu (Harry Mamaysky)
Subject: Re: american opinion
Organization: Somewhere East or Somewhere West
Distribution: talk
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 15:37:25 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.1777.21692@channel1>, "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:
|> [this and that...]

OK. If you claim that there is anti-Semitism in this country, then yes
I would agree with you. However, this purported wide spread disil-
lusionment with Israel of which you speak I have not seen. Can you
present any proof whatsoever for your claims - studies, surveys,
opinion polls? I have certainly not seen any.

Our past administration has been one of the least friendly ones that
Israel has yet seen. This is true. And yes, I have seen news shows
where one commentator or another has asininely accused Israel of some
great immorality. But most of such remarks, few as they are, most are
not effected by facts but by a baseless hatred of Jews which some
people still feel.

So, I simply refuse to accept your alleged facts. Why don't you
present some concrete evidence? If you can not, then how are any of us
to accept what you say as true, when we simply do not see any of it
ourselves?

Harry.
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Jordanian Palestinians (was: israel & hamas)
Date: 28 Dec 1992 23:16:32 +1100
Organization: Australian National University
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.23.70

clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen) writes:

>In article <1hm7f4INNmvi@manuel.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:

>>  Both Syria and Iraq made offers to take large numbers of Palestinian
>>  refugees under various conditions.  Jordan made them citizens.  Your
>>  stolid determination to remain ignorant is a marvel.

>Did Jordan grant citizenship to the Palestinian refugees or only to
>those legally residing in the West Bank when it was annexed?

In 1954, Jordan passed a law that defined as a Jordanian citizen
(i) someone who was a Jordanian citizen according to either of
    two earlier laws, and
(ii) someone who was not a Jew, was a Palestinian citizen in 1947,
    and whose normal place of residence was Jordan at the time of
    passage of this law.

Note that Jordan in (ii) then included the WB according to Jordanian
law.  This is from memory, so some details might be wrong.  I am
certain that Jews were expressly excluded in part (ii); this was
claimed to be in retaliation for Israel's Law of Return.  Note that
the law declared that some people were Jordanians; it didn't just
give them the opportunity.

>Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu

Brendan.
From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: jewish fundamenta 1/3
Date: 27 Dec 92 09:35:52 GMT
Distribution: talk,world
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

In article <1992Dec27.013258.9307@nysernet.org>, astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
> Mr. McGuire (1) ignores the fact that Kahane was repudiated by all
> mainstream Jewish and Israeli leaders and (2) ignores the fact that
> Kahane, as extreme as he was, was a moderate compared to so-called
> Arab moderates such as King Hussein of Jordan, who has made it illegal
> for Jews to live in eastern Palestine.
> --
> Alan H. Stein   -----  AJIN   -----  astein@israel.nysernet.org

Isn't it also strange that no one mentions that, as policy, no Jews are allowed
entry into Saudi Arabia ? Jewish soldiers in the American army in Desert Storm
had to  conceal their identities. There are incidents of American senators who
are Jewish who were denied entry into Saudi Arabia although the rest of the
American Congressional delegation entered without any problem.

Where oh where is Wayne  Mcguire protesting this blatant racism ??

I forgot. Only Israel is racist. :-)

Josh
backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24545 talk.politics.soviet:10162 soc.culture.greek:12000 soc.culture.europe:10961 soc.history:10493 soc.culture.soviet:11749
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: "Today's ethnic cleansing policies by the Serbian dictatorship..."
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 93 16:40:58 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <C07JF9.Loq@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis ) writes:

> Well, Cosar/Mutlu/Argic will shut up, at least for a while.

Pardon me? 


 "Today's ethnic cleansing policies by the Serbian dictatorship against
  Croatians and Muslims of Yugoslavia, as well as the Soviet Republic
  of Armenia's against the Muslim population of neighboring Azerbaijan,
  are really no different in their aspirations than the genocide 
  perpetrated by the Armenian Government 78 years ago against the
  Turkish and Kurdish Muslims and Sephardic Jews living in these
  lands."         (Cebbar Leygara - Kurdish Leader - October 13, 1992)


Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bill@cognet.ucla.edu (William M. Eldridge)
Subject: Re: POLITICS: Re: Israel must return the deportees!
Organization: UCLA Cognitive Science Research Program
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 21:57:16 GMT

dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:

>Seriously, if you can be provoked to this extreme by an action which really
>has little effect on your day-to-day life, can't you see the extreme
>provocation which Israel has had to endure from Hamas?  Kidnappings,
>murder, a philosophy of war against all Jews - those seem unbearable
>to me.  How would Britain handle the IRA in such circumstances.

How did Britain handle the zionist terrorists circa WWII?
(it just seemed to be a closer analogy, or at least a little ironic).

-- 
{{{{ bill eldridge           310-206-3960                x                }}}}
{{{{ bill@cognet.ucla.edu    310-206-3987 fax           xxx              }}}}
{{{{ ~more, ~better, ~faster [80's motto]                x              }}}}
{{{{ ~hot, ~toxic, and ~shallow [90's motto]                              }}}}
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: henry@bms.com (Henry Mednikoff)
Subject: Re: The Hadith about Muslims killing the J
Reply-To: henry@bms.com
Organization: Bristol-Myers Squibb PRI
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 16:09:10 GMT
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Jihad is self-defence
Date: 31 Dec 92 09:08:44 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <4596@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
>
>Sorry but I can't agree with any of you.

But his arguments don't hold any water either.

>JIHAD means a war in order to enforce Islam on non-Islamic nations ("a
>      holy war").

Obviously you need brushing up on Islamic prinicipals.

>War is not a peace , and 2*2=4.

The only truthful statement made here!

So, does Israel think that it will accomplish peace by declaring
war on the occupied territories Gideon?

Anisa
	"I'd rather have a big heart than a big brain ..."
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Re: Resisting occupation
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:29:17 GMT

In article <42781@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, revans@euclid.ucsd.edu (Ron Evans) writes:
> <1992Dec21.145421.11383@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad
Hernlem) writes:
> 
> >3. It is my belief that it is a fundamental right of people to resist
> >the forced occupation of their land by a foreign army. 
>  
> >> 	Should the Kurds randomly kill Iranian soldiers until
> >> 	Iranians stop occupying Kurdistan?  Yes or no?
> 
> The country of Iran has been around continuously for over 2500 years.
> 
> 	Borders of Iran have changed continually since Muslim
> 	Arabs invaded in the 600's.  Kurds want self-determination
> 	in Kurdistan and have fought bitterly against Iranian
> 	rule.  In 1945, Iranian Kurds declared an
> 	independent republic called Mahabad, which only lasted
> 	a year.

The situation in Iran is no longer similar to 1945. The late Shah was
quite guilty of discrimination (oppression?), particularly to non-Persians. 

> ...In my opinion, the
> situation is quite different for the Palestinians. I think that there is
> the difference that the Israeli government wishes to occupy Palestinian
> land despite the Palestinians whereas the Iranian government would like
> to hold the country together. 
> 
> 	How can one acknowledge Palestinian land without
> 	acknowledging Kurdish land?
> 
> 	The Kurds are not treated equally.  They are a powerless
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 	oppressed ethnic group, and they have fought for centuries
> 	for a Kurdish state.  Should they randomly kill
> 	Turkish, Iraqi, or Iranian soldiers until they are
> 	granted autonomy?  Or is the situation different when
> 	Muslims are oppressors?  
> -- 
> Ron Evans (revans@math.ucsd.edu)

The Kurds should weigh their options. You state as fact that the Kurds
are mistreated in Iran. As I said, my impression from talking with
Iranians is that the Kurds are well respected. Perhaps I am wrong. Kurds
have as much right as anyone else to fight against oppression. What sets
the situation apart from the Palestinian example has nothing to do with
Islam or Muslims. Israel has no interest in incorporating Palestinians
as equals; such a decision would tax the credibility of Israel as a
democracy while at the same time remaining a "Jewish" state. I guess we
can continue to argue this point but I would like to hear the opinion of
an Iranian Kurd on this matter. In my opinion, no nation has a "right"
to autonomy but each individual has a right to expect respect and equal
rights within whatever country he resides either by citizenship or by force. 


Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Can anyone answer a real quick, simple question?
Date: 24 Dec 92 10:42:00 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Dec23.044041.19645@nysernet.org> astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
>
>For the same reason it passed the infamous "Zionism = Racism"
>resolution-- anti-semitism.

And for the other reason it passed the infamous "Zionism = Democracy"
resolution-- anti-Arabism.
 
Anisa
	"I didn't program you to make moral judgements"

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Re: Jihad is self-defence
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 18:41:00 GMT

In article <4596@bimacs.BITNET>, ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
> In article <1992Dec27.152024.19584@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il>
> fedimit@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il (Dan Nabutovsky) writes:
> 
> >>     Jihad is self defense.
> >
> >War is peace.
> >2*2 is sometimes 3 and sometimes 5.
> >
> >Dan
> 
> Sorry but I can't agree with any of you.
> JIHAD means a war in order to enforce Islam on non-Islamic nations ("a
>       holy war").
> War is not a peace , and 2*2=4.
> 
> G.E.

Maybe in your book JIHAD has that definition but I am sure there are a
lot of people out there who think that jihad merely means struggling to
lead a life pleasing to God. This term is very much abused. It is like
the term "Zionist". This term can be taken to its extreme implying
support for a strictly Jewish state in its farest reaching historic
boundaries with exclusive previledges given only to Jews, etc. I think
most people would agree that such "Zionism" is indeed racist but there
are many out there who consider themselves Zionists but do not have such views.

*****************************************************
*                         *                  __     *
* Brad "Ali" Hernlem      *                 / /     *
*                         *                / /      *
*                         *               / / ____  *
*                         *              / / / __/  *
* hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU  *    __     __/ /_/ /_    *
*                         *   / /____/ ________/    *
*                         *  /________/             *
*****************************************************
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24598 talk.politics.soviet:10196 soc.culture.soviet:11777 soc.rights.human:4718 soc.culture.turkish:13757
From: hm@cs.brown.edu (Harry Mamaysky)
Subject: Re: All Arabs are guilty
Keywords: ^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Organization: Somewhere East or Somewhere West
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 20:02:33 GMT

In article <BzzDEq.F4C@newsflash.concordia.ca>, ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira) writes:
|> I am talking about both history and a possible future.. The fact that many
|> Israelis always bring up the genocide against native Americans shows that
|> they think that anything that is not worse than that should not be 
|> condemned.

Bull shit. No one in Israel thinks this way. What was done to the
American Indians is unforgivable. No one in Israel is trying to use
this as some gruesome measuring stick of how cruel one people can be
to another. I would venture to guess that the large majority of
Israelis (and of people in general) would condemn what was done to the
American Indians. Certainly, no one in Israel wants to emulate this
cruelty.


Harry.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24537 talk.politics.soviet:10154 soc.culture.greek:11992 soc.culture.europe:10953 soc.rights.human:4715 soc.culture.soviet:11742
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.rights.human,soc.culture.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: The victims and defenders of the ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism Triangle.
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 93 16:04:32 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1hudkmINNopd@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bv652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ilan Uri Woll) writes:

>news on his wherabouts are unknown, but unconfirmed reports place
>him in greece, to stand trial for among other charges:

Clear as mud. Well, another important development of the past 4 years 
is the apparent relocation of ASALA's headquarter away from war-torn 
Beirut to the more peaceful surroundings of Athens, Greece and Nicosia,
Cyprus. Operating from their new locations under the rubric of the 
'Armenian Popular Movement,' this, the most violent of the ASALA/SDPA/ARF 
Terrorism Triangle, enjoys considerable support from the Greek Governments. 
Two major conferences held by this organization in Athens have benefited 
from the participation of a number of prominent Greek politicians, including 
that of the son of Papandreou, himself a member of the Cabinet. 

Indeed, the extent of Greek Government cooperation with the ASALA/SDPA/ARF 
terrorists also caused the U.S. Department of State to issue a strong warning 
as to the danger inherent in this policy. 

Source: Alan Cowell, 'U.S. & Greece in Dispute on Terror,' The New
        York Times, June 27, 1987, p. 4.

                    Special to The New York Times

ATHENS, June 26 - A dispute developed today between Athens and 
Washington over United States intelligence reports saying that 
Athens, for several months, conducted negotiations with the
terrorist known as Abu Nidal...

They said the contacts were verified in what were termed hard
intelligence reports.

Abu Nidal leads the Palestinian splinter group Al Fatah 
Revolutionary Council, implicated in the 1985 airport 
bombings at Rome and Vienna that contributed to the Reagan 
Administration's decision to bomb Tripoli, Libya, last year.

In Washington, State Department officials said that when
Administration officials learned about the contacts, the
State Department drafted a strongly worded demarche. The
officials also expressed unhappiness with Greece's dealings
with ASALA, the Armenian Liberation Army, which has carried
out terrorist acts against Turks....

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
Date: Tuesday, 29 December 1992 12:17:32 MST
X-Mailer: TMail version 1.15R
From: "D. C. Sessions" <dcs@witsend.tnet.com>
Organization: Nobody but me -- really
Subject: Re: Resisting occupation
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Distribution: world

In <1992Dec26.162146.968@ncsu.edu>, hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)  wrote:
# Regarding your questions about Baha'is, it is widely claimed that the
# IRI (Islamic Republic of Iran) has a policy of persecuting Baha'is; i.e.
# unjustly applying action against Baha'is merely because they are
# Baha'is. We should be careful to discern between such cases and those
# where an individual committed some offense against the state. It is not
# immediately obvious that merely because an individual from a particular
# faith is incarcerated that that person is incarcerated because of his faith.

  My understanding, from wireservice news reports, is that the Baha'is
  are being prosecuted for (among other things) what amounts to
  felonious cohabitation.  Since the IRI doesn't recognize Baha'i
  marriages as valid, the women are arrested as whores and treated
  accordingly.

  The way this works is that the IRI, like many states in the region
  (including Israel) delegates marriage and family law to religious
  authorities.  BUT!  The IRI does not recognize Baha'is as a
  separate religion but as Muslims.  Since the Baha'i marriages are
  not recognized by the mullahs, and since the Baha'is are regarded
  as Muslims by the mullahs, guess what?

--- D. C. Sessions                            Speaking for myself ---
--- Note new network address:                dcs@witsend.tnet.com ---
--- Author (and everything else!) of TMail  (DOS mail/news shell) ---
From: ph111-bx@violet.berkeley.edu (;;;;7202)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Israel's deportation of over 400 Palestinians
Date: 3 Jan 1993 10:50:27 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: violet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec24.183747.25193@das.harvard.edu> adam@endor.uucp
(Adam Shostack) writes:
->In article <1992Dec22.091054.24186@Princeton.EDU>
niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
->
->Quoting somewhat out of context here:
->
->>(Basically, I view this as pretty analagous to the US interment of
->>Japanese-Americans during WW2, actually.  The government there, too,
->>said there was an imminent security threat because a war was going on.
->>Many of the people arguing this may even have believed it sincerely.  It
->>didn't make the actions right, however.)
->
->This analogy, is like comparing apples and oranges.  The basic
->difference between the actions of the US government and the Israeli
->government is that the Arabs living in Gaza pose a demonstratable and
->definite threat to the Israeli population.
->
->The Americans of Japanese ancestry who were thrown into camps had
->shown no propensity to oppose the American war effort.  Many of them
->were second and third generation American citizens.  There were no
->instances that I know of of Japanese-Americans spying for the Imperial
->Government.  This is in stark contrast to the fact that there were
->Germans who spied for the Reich, although German-Americans were never
->jailed en masse.
->
->Please note that I am not defending the deportations.  I am merely
->trying to point out that David's analogy is fundamentally inaccurate. 

In both cases the internees and deportees were denied due process in time of
war and instead summarily interned or deported following neither trial nor
conviction.  The degree to which each group was/is held in suspect is
immaterial.  Whether you're not liked because of your last name or the shape
of your eyes, or because of your political positions or suspected acts, if the
threat you pose to the state is such that extreme measures, i.e. internment
or deportation, are warrented, then you deserve your day in court to confront
and defend against the evidence of your alleged "demonstratable and definite
threat" BEFORE sentence is carried out.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24350 talk.politics.soviet:10065 soc.culture.greek:11942 soc.culture.europe:10885 soc.history:10435 soc.culture.soviet:11668