HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: Emissions Inspections, is new really be
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 00:52:32 GMT

In article <1993Jan28.162731.14311@ncar.ucar.edu> chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu writes:
>This gets back to my initial statement.  Cheap gas has led to
>a poor layout of infrastructure (movie theatres, markets).  And
>the poor layout forces (forces is stronger than I want, but I
>can't come up with a better word) you to rely on your car. 

I'm not at all sure it's a poor layout, and the logic you use
is backwards: Assuming transportation is easily available and
cheap, then the current layout of infrastructure is a good 
one. The layout developed because transportation was (and is)
avaiable; People driving alot was the cause and not the result of
this layout.

>If gas cost more, people would complain, and maybe someone would
>build a better theatre in Boulder.

Perhaps, but there would be fewer customers: Instead of a dozen
good theaters within driving distance (and therefore a wide 
selection of movies to see) there would be one (or possibly two)
local ones and a limited selection of movies (almost certainly
the most popular and mainstream ones, which aren't really worth
seeing in my opinion...). By the way, the above isn't speculation:
In the thirties and forties, movies were popular but transportation
was limited. A local theater showing a limited number of movies was
the general rule.

                                           Frank Crary
                                           CU Boulder
Newsgroups: co.general
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: Emissions Inspections, is new really be
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 16:02:48 GMT

kucharsk@solbourne.com (William Kucharski) writes:
>Oil drilling does not necessarily "destroy" the environment "the animals are
>currently enjoying."  Oil can indeed be removed from the ground in an
>environmentally sensitive manner.  The same is true for mining.

Extracting oil shale is VERY expensive to accomplish politically
correct, otherwise it is strip mined.

--Chris
Newsgroups: co.general
From: freedman@cs.colostate.edu (keith freedman)
Subject: Re: Emissions Inspections, is new really be
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:25:12 GMT
Reply-To: freedman@cs.colostate.edu
Organization: Colorado State University -=- Computer Science Department

In article 10459@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu, tlode@nyx.cs.du.edu (trygve lode) writes:
>In article <Jan20.190138.72275@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> freedman@cs.colostate.edu writes:
>>
>>This country has the LOWEST gas prices of ANY other country.
>>Therefor, we really shouldn't complain about an increase in gas cost.
>
>So, in whichever state has the lowest burglary rate, those who are
>robbed shouldn't complain about being robbed? 
>
I guess it's fair to associate burglary with taxes.
How about if we just discontinue subsidies towards gas and let
the gas prices go to a couple bucks a gallon and leave the tax
where it is.  Doesn't it amount to the same thing.  It just depends
who you want the money to go to first (it will all end up in the
mouth of the tiger [exxon, texaco, conoco, etc...]).

>In order for the government to have any likelihood of using those funds
>effectively, in addition to implementing the new taxes, we'd also have
>to implement a new government.
>
Isn't that what were supposed to do every year when we vote?  I guess,
like all things, they work better in theory.

---
Keith Freedman
Colorado State University
Department of Computer Science
Systems Administration

Newsgroups: co.general
From: freedman@cs.colostate.edu (keith freedman)
Subject: Re: Emissions Inspections, is new really be
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:58:47 GMT
Reply-To: freedman@cs.colostate.edu
Organization: Colorado State University -=- Computer Science Department

In article 1jn9hdINNpmt@anthrax.solbourne.com, kucharsk@solbourne.com (William Kucharski) writes:
>While reading article <1993Jan21.151743.26574@ncar.ucar.edu>, I noticed that
>chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu said the following:
> >Well, we can do it voluntarily now or wait until the supply dwindles,
> >which will do it automatically.  It will happen by choice or market
> >forces.
>
>Great, then let's do it by market forces.  Regarless of what you may think
>about Amoco, Mobil, Shell and the rest, do you think that when oil supplies
>run low they'll say "hey, that was fun, let's close now"?  They'll put more
>and more research into alternative fuels and producing them at prices as
>close as possible to what we now pay for gas.  They'll need to do it to
>survive, something which is a goal for most companies...

you seem unconcerned about the environmental toll here.  Anyways, if
supply dwindles, we'll just tear up the alaskan wildlife refuge to get
the oil out of there.  We'll dig up the rest of the rocky mountains
to scrape all the coal out of there.  We'll increase off shore drilling
and pour more toxic cruid oil into the ocean (increasing the price
of fresh seafood, too).  Secondly, the oil companies will not try to
produce alternative energy at today's gas prices, they'll charge only
slightly less (or even more) than what oil will cost THEN because people
will become accustom to paying high prices for energy and the energy
companies will just capitalize on that. (I think I'd rather the government
waste my money than have energy company executives buying large foreign
islands for personal pleasure with it).
---
Keith Freedman
Colorado State University
Department of Computer Science
Systems Administration

Newsgroups: co.general
From: freedman@cs.colostate.edu (keith freedman)
Subject: Re: Emissions Inspections, is new really be
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 19:38:28 GMT
Reply-To: freedman@cs.colostate.edu
Organization: Colorado State University -=- Computer Science Department

In article 4423@ucsu.Colorado.EDU, fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
>In article <Jan25.195947.35602@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> freedman@cs.colostate.edu writes:
>>As far as subsidising oil companies, I'll use the EXXON example.  Exxon was fined
>>some large sum of money.  Although I don't remember the exact figure, this covered
>>LESS than 20% of the cost of clean-up then, not to mention the environmental toll
>>and the yearly costs since then.
>
>Do you have an actual number to attach to this? This is one extreme and rare 
>example, (I.e. the cost of this one event probably approaches the average
>per-year cost of such things.) I really doubt Exxon could eat a fine of
>several billion dollars and stay in business...
>
I can try to find the exact value.  However, since exxon can't eat such a
large fine, the government has to subsidize the oil companies in at least
this area.  Where do you suppose the money comes from?

---
Keith Freedman
Colorado State University
Department of Computer Science
Systems Administration

Newsgroups: co.general
From: pcb@clinicom.com (Peter Bohne)
Subject: WANT TO RENT CONDO
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:03:42 GMT
Organization: CliniCom Incorporated, Boulder, CO
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]


Greetings NetNewsFolks!

I'm looking for a (reasonably priced) small (1 bedroom) condo
to rent somewhere in the general Vail area on Sat. nite Jan. 30.
The closer to Vail the better, but I'll look at anything in the 
vicinity, including Copper Mt, Breckenridge, etc.  Even a 2-BR
would be OK, provided the rate is affordable.  The renters would
be 2 very responsible folks.  So how about it?  Any owners out
there who'd like to make some extra cash next weekend??

Please give me a call if you can help me out (or e-mail).

Thanks VERY much in advance.

pete
,-----------------------------pcb@clinicom.com-------------------------------.
| Peter Bohne       |   ----     O  |            "...what is good, Phaedrus, |
| 303/443-1726 x223 |  ----    </\_ |    ,__o     and what is not good? Need |
| CliniCom, Boulder | ----   -\/\   |   _\_<,       we ask anyone to tell us |
|                   |  ----    /_   | (*)/'(*)       these things?..."       |
`----------------------------------------------------------------------------'

Newsgroups: co.ads,co.general,boulder.general
From: alexm@teal.csn.org (Alex Matthews)
Subject: *For sale* -- miscellaneous items
Followup-To: co.ads
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 23:17:24 GMT

I have the following items for sale and giveaway:

*  4.4 cu. ft. refrigerator (large dorm-size)  $75
*  Motorcycle helmet (Arai Astro, small, black, full-face, never crashed) $30
*  Intercoms(2) (Maxon 49-HR, FM tranceiver w/FM tuner, passenger headset) $30
*  City bike (rack, lights, mountain-bike style, well-maint.)  $50
*  Skiis and boots (downhill) 
    (old Fischer Glass GT 195cm, Marker bindings, size 11 boots, poles,  
    Free to good home)
*  Skiis and boots (X-C)
    (Trak Trail waxless, 210 cm, 75mm bindings, boots, poles, fair cond)  $30
*  Bicycle training rollers (Roto, nylon, sealed bearings, vg cond.)  $40
*  Thermos (quart, excellent condition)  $10
*  Iron (GE, vg condition)  $10
*  Radiator (portable electric, oil-filled)  $40
*  Computer (Kaypro 2x portable, daisywheel printer, software, extras,
    good starter for child)  $200 obo
*  Humidifier   $5

If you're interested, drop me a line at alexm@csn.org or call me evenings in 
Boulder at 494-5625.

-- 
- Alex Matthews  (new address: alexm.csn.org)

  "A typical Grand Prix race.  High noon.  Tension mounts.  Throttles clench."
                        Patricia Zonker, _Murdercycles_
Newsgroups: co.general
From: fedrick@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Kelvin W. Fedrick)
Subject: Re: Illegal telephone recording
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 06:41:34 GMT

In article <Jan22.000530.7330@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> freedman@cs.colostate.edu writes:

>has he used the recordings in cases actually in TRIAL or only as a means
>to try to settle out of court??

 In the trial, and btw also had them used against his clients in trial.

-kelvin

Newsgroups: co.general
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: Emissions Inspections, is new really be
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 15:32:13 GMT

In article <Jan22.185847.33362@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> freedman@cs.colostate.edu writes:
>...(I think I'd rather the government
>waste my money than have energy company executives buying large foreign
>islands for personal pleasure with it).

I wouldn't: Money spend on the pleasures of the rich is fairly harmless,
campared government spending (which usually ends up in campaigns to 
restrict individual rights, the "War on Drugs" being only one example.)

                                                  Frank Crary
                                                  CU Boulder

Newsgroups: co.general
From: era@csn.org ()
Subject: REQUEST FOR ASSISTANCE
Originator: era@teal.csn.org
Keywords: Extremists, Christian Right, Amendment 2
Reply-To: era@csn.org ()
Organization: Citizens Project; Colorado Springs, CO
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:12:17 GMT

We of the Citizens Project (Colorado Springs, CO) are looking for people
who could assist us in re-distributing the Citizens Project Newsletter
to non-Internet computer services.  If you have an account on any such
services (CompuServe, FidoNet, Genie, Prodigy, America Online, and others)
and are willing to help us, please let us know via return email to
era@ncar.ucar.edu.

The Citizens Project is a Colorado Springs, CO - based group of volunteers
who seek to prevent extremists from eliminating our fundamental freedoms.
Colorado's Amendments 1 and 2 are the extremists' most obvious successes
to date.      
--
Ed Arnold * Boulder, CO * 303-497-1253(voice,weekday) * 303-494-6949(voice)
internet: era@csn.org * compuserve: internet:era@csn.org * bitnet: era@ncario
-- 
Ed Arnold * Boulder, CO * 303-497-1253(voice,weekday) * 303-494-6949(voice)
internet: era@csn.org * compuserve: internet:era@csn.org * bitnet: era@ncario
Newsgroups: co.general
From: fowlerc@boulder.colorado.edu (John C. Fowler)
Subject: Re: Phone numbers?
Originator: fowlerc@ucsu.Colorado.EDU
Reply-To: fowlerc@boulder.colorado.edu
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: co
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:23:17 GMT

In article <Jan26.010425.23936@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> millerje@CS.ColoState.EDU (Jeff Miller) writes:
>My question is:  Are you under any obligation to give a phone number for a
>check purchase?  Do companies use this phone number (on your check) in the same
>way they do on credit cards?

The reason you don't have to give out a phone number for most credit card
purchases is that the contract the merchant signs with the bank/creditors
forbids him/her to require it (but he/she is allowed to ask).  There is no
such contract with checks.  A merchant could legally require you to stand
on your head while singing the Star-Spangled Banner and juggling automobile
parts to use a check.

In my experience, the phone number is there only to contact you if the check
bounces.  Although it's suspected that merchants compile telemarketing
lists, I've never met one who did.

-- 
John C. Fowler, fowlerc@boulder.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: co.general
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: Amnd.2 Boycott is Counterproductive.
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: co
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:49:41 GMT

In article <EJH.93Jan21095317@khonshu.colorado.edu> ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett) writes:
>I think you're missing the real target of the boycott, which is not
>Colorado, but every other state. Since something like 12 states now
>have organizations working for something like A2, it seems to me quite
>possible that a perceived economic hardship in Colorado because of A2
>will influence the voters and politicians of other states.  The smart
>politicians and businessmen will come out against their local version,
>claiming that economic hardship will follow.

So, you are supporting the boycott, since it can be used in a rather
cynical political maneuver in other states? And any benefits or harm
in Colorado are irrelevant, since you are simply using Colorado is
a tool for political gains?

>And finally, why should any gay-rights activist care about the
>individual people of Colorado?

In which case, why should anyone in Colorado care about gays? Perhaps
a better solution would be each caring about (or at least not
trying to actively hurt) the other.

>Do you care that the boycott of South
>America probably hurt plenty of people who never discriminated against
>blacks, or were working for their benifit?

That was exactly my reason for opposing the South African boycott: It
hurt the blacks and anti-apartid whites. (In addition to hurting
the economy in general, which makes/will make life much harder on
anyone trying to solve that country's problems.)

>There's bound to be innocent
>victims in any boycott, but that doesn't mean that boycotts shouldn't
>be used.

I think it does, but I especially object to this attitude that
hurting innocent poeple is perfectly fine, in the name of a good 
cause. That's exactly what the Crusaders were thinking, when they
massacared entire cities. 

                                              Frank Crary
                                              CU Boulder
Newsgroups: co.general
From: jill@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Jill Lundquist)
Subject: Re: Phone numbers?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: co
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 21:48:57 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.162317.12610@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fowlerc@boulder.colorado.edu writes:
>
>In my experience, the phone number is there only to contact you if the check
>bounces.  Although it's suspected that merchants compile telemarketing
>lists, I've never met one who did.

I have, though it was a mailing list instead of telemarketing.
I worked for a company that was both a retail outlet and a mail
order organization.  The managers of the retail outlets were
given bonuses of some kind from their higher-ups for getting a
lot of names on the mailing list.  There was a contest (monthly
drawing for neat stuff) to get names, but our manager also
required the salesfolk to copy names and addresses from
customers' checks to get more of them.

However, this is not quite the same situation; the company
did not require (nor ask for) phone numbers on checks.  They
just took whatever you chose to preprint, which unfortunately
always includes the address.

It was a large hassle, too.  Safeway is much smarter, getting
people to run their cards through a machine that lets them keep
track of who bought what and when.  I don't use those.  But
then, I avoid Safeway as much as I can because I can't stand
hearing advertisements while buying things.

-- 
Jill Lundquist		jill@cs.colorado.edu		DoD #882

When hell freezes over, grab the ice skates.
Newsgroups: co.general
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: Emissions Inspections, is new really be
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 20:08:52 GMT

gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:
>cw> Chris Webster
>
>cw> If you raise the price of gas, GM will put out efficient cars, people will
>    car pool more, mass transit will become more cost effictive.
>
>  What about the poor who need their own autos so that they can work? A gas
>  tax is very regressive. 

Give me a break.  You don't think Europe and other places
don't have poor people.  I drive 25,000 miles a year, my vehicle
gets 20 MPG, if gas went from $1.25 to $2 per gallon, it would cost
me $950 more per year.  If you figure the average person drives more
like 12,000 miles per year & gets 25 MPG, their increase would be
$360 per year.  There is no perfect solution.  We can either continue
pollution, disolution of our communities, and not offer a new source
of revenue for the government.  Furthemore, I have zero sympathy for
anyone still driving a Delta 88, I don't care how poor.

No matter what we do somebody is going to get fucked.  It's the price
we will have to pay for having cheap gas for so long, and putting profit
ahead social well being.

--Chris
From: smorine@nyx.cs.du.edu (Suzanne Morine)
Newsgroups: co.general
Subject: Re: Amnd.2 Boycott is Counterproductive.
Keywords: amendment 2
Date: 21 Jan 93 21:45:53 GMT
Distribution: co
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.

Just a note, here.

kooros@refuge.Colorado.EDU (Paul T. Kooros) writes:
>	Many municipal entities participating in the boycott do not themselves
>have anti-discrimination protection for homosexuals (e.g. Atlanta).  I
>consider this to be a hypocrisy of the worst politically correct kind.

Atlanta has had an anti-discrimination ordinance covering sexual orientation
since 1971.  I think the Colo. Tourism people are complaining about Georgia's
anti-sodomy laws.

--
--Suzanne Morine          smorine@nyx.cs.du.edu
--"It is wonderful how much time good people spend fighting the devil.  If
--they would only expend the same amount of energy loving their fellow men,
--the devil would die in his own tracks of ennui."     Helen Keller
Newsgroups: co.general
From: terryg@stortek.com (Terry Gottehrer x4943)
Subject: Re: Colorado amendment 2 information / boycott
Organization: StorageTek
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:02:02 GMT

jmatthews@uswest.com wrote:
: 
: My sister and her partner were leaving a Denver bar on Friday night, and three
: men screamed "Fuckin' Dykes" and threw beer bottles at them from a passing car.
:  Now, you tell me how this could happen, since there is no hate in the state of
: Colorado, Mr. LeSatz.
: 

Before Amendment 2 passed, nobody was labeling Colorado a hate state. Nobody
posted here that Colorado was full of hate. Honestly, can anyone say there
is a correlation between Amendment 2 passing and this unfortunate incident
involving Jaye's sister? I don't see one. Does anyone really believe that
this incident would not have occured had Amendment 2 not passed?

This is an example of 'individual' hate, not hate of the entire state (I
know Jaye is talking about hate in general, but this thread has stated
more times than I can remember that Colorado is a hate state). Individual
hate exists EVERYWHERE. I am not passing judgement of whether that is good
or bad. I would be willing to wager that the incident described above
could (and does) happen in all 50 states. It is PEOPLE that hate, not
states that hate. All the above incident shows is that *three* men hate.
Quit generalizing!

-------------------------
Terry_Gottehrer@stortek.com
StorageTek, Louisville, CO 
(303)673-4943
-------------------------
Newsgroups: co.general
From: ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett)
Subject: Re: Colorado amendment 2 information / boycott
Organization: CIRES, University of Colorado
Distribution: na
Date: 25 Jan 93 11:21:06

In article <1993Jan21.160202.15454@stortek.com> terryg@stortek.com (Terry Gottehrer x4943) writes:

   jmatthews@uswest.com wrote:
   : 
   : My sister and her partner were leaving a Denver bar on Friday night, and three
   : men screamed "Fuckin' Dykes" and threw beer bottles at them from a passing car.
   :  Now, you tell me how this could happen, since there is no hate in the state of
   : Colorado, Mr. LeSatz.
   : 

   Before Amendment 2 passed, nobody was labeling Colorado a hate state. Nobody
   posted here that Colorado was full of hate. Honestly, can anyone say there
   is a correlation between Amendment 2 passing and this unfortunate incident
   involving Jaye's sister? I don't see one. Does anyone really believe that
   this incident would not have occured had Amendment 2 not passed?

   This is an example of 'individual' hate, not hate of the entire state (I
   know Jaye is talking about hate in general, but this thread has stated
   more times than I can remember that Colorado is a hate state). Individual
   hate exists EVERYWHERE. I am not passing judgement of whether that is good
   or bad. I would be willing to wager that the incident described above
   could (and does) happen in all 50 states. It is PEOPLE that hate, not
   states that hate. All the above incident shows is that *three* men hate.
   Quit generalizing!

   -------------------------
   Terry_Gottehrer@stortek.com
   StorageTek, Louisville, CO 
   (303)673-4943
   -------------------------

Well, as a matter of fact I saw on CNN recently a report from some
organization in Denver that tracks hate crimes against gays.
Immediately after the election the number of such incidents has risen
very very sharply. I think it is quite likely that A2 has given the
green light to many gay bashers that previously were restrained by the
social approbation against such activity. Now it's more stylish to
hate gays than it was before the election.
--
	Don't blame me, I voted against Amendment 2!

Edward Hartnett				ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu