HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jbrindle@halcyon.com (Jennifer Brindle)
Subject: Re: A few facts about circumcision
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:32:35 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.201242.10422@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> mcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mark A. Cochran) writes:
>In article <markg.78.725733783@county.lmt.mn.org> markg@county.lmt.mn.org (Mark Gilbert) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec27.173429.5492@newstand.syr.edu> kgatling@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Keith E Gatling) writes:
>>
>>stuff deleted
>>
>>>Someone mentioned that there is some very small, but non-zero, number of
>>>circs that end up in mutilation or death, and that's their reason for not
>>>doing it.  Fine.
>>
>Actually, I think they were claiming that some % will end up as
>emasculations. Personally, I wouldn't give any real credance to this
>claim until I see a citation to back it up. There's plenty of circs

The year my first son (3YO) was born (who is INTACT, I might add) 
there was not ONE, 
but TWO such "mutilations" at Northside Hospital in the Atlanta area. Two 
different doctors.  One child was left as is, the other given hormones and 
corrective surgery to become female.

While I agree that the percentage of "mishaps" are small, since it IS elective 
surgery, and without much (if any_ medical reason) then I thihk it's up to the 
child to decide when he's older.  AFter all, it's HIS body, and since it is 
neither life-threatening nor an even minor health issue, leave him INTACT.

BTW, so is my other son.

>Tell me Mark, have you ever had an SO with pierced ears? And if so,
>did you refer to them as "mutilated"? 
>By the logic you post above, I'm certain you should have....
>

My ears are pierced, at MY request.  Not my mother's, not my father's, but MINE!When I was 17!

Jennifer
From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Home births and HMOs...
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:28:51 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

In article <1993Jan4.214034.14279@umiami.ir.miami.edu> ahelmers@umiami.ir.miami.edu writes:
>In article <168CE6D9E.M18709@mwvm.mitre.org>, M18709@mwvm.mitre.org writes:
>
>> We had one child in a hospital and one at home.  They were both
>> very exceiting and emotional, however, the birth at home was much more of a
>> family bonding experience.  
>
>Interestingly enough, although *both* of my children were born in a hospital,
>we also found the second birth experience to be (as you say) more of a family
>bonding experience. My husband and I both commented at the time and later that
>everything just seemed somehow easier and that our daughter seemed to simply
>fit right into our newly expanded family, even before she had spent a night in
>her own crib!  I believe that a lot of the bonding feelings may come quicker
>and even easier the second time around.  The parents are "veterans", and for me
>there was more of an awareness that this was MY child, since I had the
>background of already having watched my son grow and develop.  I didn't feel so
>much like a new alien being had landed :).
>
>So, I understand your point but I believe that it isn't necessarily a homebirth
>vs. hospital issue.
>
>Ann Helmers

Our first child was delivered by Certified Nurse Midwives at the University
of Michigan Women's Hospital.  I attended and did Bradley, and we didn't see
a doctor the whole time.  My wife had some heavy bleeding, and we were glad
to be in the hospital, but even then the midwives handled it.

Our other two children were born in Dallas at St. Paul Hospital.  As a hospital
it was more warm and human than Michigan, and they even had birthing rooms.  No
midwives, though. However we found through references an obstetrician who was
minimalist as far as intervention was concerned and agreed to our wishes about
no drugs, IV, etc.  For the second child he came in about the start of second
stage, delivered the baby, did a little massaging and told me how to do it to 
stop the bleeding, and went home.  The third time he came in even later.

I think it was mostly our own activity that made the experiences good ones, and
we worked hard at it, especially the first time.  We felt more comfortable
having the backup facilities at the hospital, and without the surrounding
family with lots of experience in home births, it seemed like the right thing
to do.

Also, we went for the early release program and non-separation. Even when my
wife had trouble, the baby never left her side, and she was out of there the
next day.  With the third child, they didn't have enough personnel to do the
post natal checkup and weigh in at the bedside, so I accompanied the baby to
the nursery and stayed there for a couple of hours while they did it.

Can't say much about relative bonding experiences, but we sure are bound
to them -- for at least eighteen years apiece!  They are very beautiful
children, IMHO.  Do you want to see a picture?

Gerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com)
From: glen@slate.cs.wisc.edu (Glen Ecklund)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Water for babies
Date: 6 Jan 93 22:43:42 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences

jschwarz@lonestar.utsa.edu (Jan A. Schwarz) writes:

>It seems as if water isn't given to babies like it used to be when I
>had mine (22 years ago!).

>What has changed over the years that babies don't require water?
>I used to give water to mine when it really wasn't time for them
>to eat.  It seemed to pacify they until feeding time.

>Jan

Perhaps what has changed is that now we feed them when they're hungry.
I don't see anything wrong with (good) water, but deprivation of food
is not healthy, and can lead to eating disorders.  In the short run,
a hungry person, perhaps especially a child, is less able to learn and to
deal with life in general.  And, contrary to older beliefs, a baby is
doing a whole lot of learning.
-- 
Every child shall be treated with complete respect.

Glen Ecklund     glen@cs.wisc.edu   (608) 262-1318 Office, 262-1204 Dept. Sec'y
Department of Computer Sciences        1210 W. Dayton St., Room 3355
University of Wisconsin, Madison       Madison, Wis. 53706  U.S.A.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: nelson@mdd.comm.mot.com (Mike Nelson)
Subject: Re: Predict your next child`s sex
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:38:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.003003.17878@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> ren@Turing.ORG (Karen Prestemon) writes:
>In article <29388@oasys.dt.navy.mil> dsegelho@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Diane Segelhorst) writes:
>>In misc.kids, Gary Stringfellow writes:
>>  (method for "choosing" sex of child deleted)
>>>
>>>You can choose for yourself whether you want a boy or a girl by following the
>>>chart. The woman's age from 18 to 45 (Chinese reckoning) is on the top line
>>				       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>What the heck is age by Chinese reckoning?
>>
>Better yet, what does this have to do with ANYTHING??? The sex is determined
>by the male gamete, not the female!!!
>
>DUH!!
>
>--Karen

Maybe the egg itself it more susceptible to one or the other of the 
two types of sperm cells.

The mothers body may be more or less hostile to one or the other of the 
two types of sperm cells.

Mike N.

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: hyler@ast.saic.com (Buffy Hyler)
Subject: Pinata Control
Reply-To: hyler@ast.saic.com
Organization: SAIC
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:14:35 GMT

Hi folks, 

My son and I have been busy planning his 6th birthday party.  We
haven't had any post-Xmas blues from him because he is so excited about
his party coming up next month.

One thing he has asked to have at his party is a pinata.  And I agreed
before I thought too much about it.

Now my problem, and maybe I am too influenced by my experiences from
when I was a kid.  I remember pinatas as very negative things since I
was somewhat shy and timid and the minute that thing broke kids were
all over each other fighting and pushing and crying to get more than
the other kids.  I would usually stay on the edge and pick up a few
things and be very sad because I couldn't get more without getting into
the middle of all the chaos.

David's birthday will have at most 7 children, all at 5-6 years of
age.  Is there some way to put some control on the pinata "grab for
all" that will keep things somewhat happy and reasonably fair for all?
One idea I had was to keep a certain amount of the goodies out of the
pinata and after all the scrambling was over share this out to those
who were unable to get as much as the others.  Another idea was to put
some of the goodies in plastic bags with names and they would have to
scramble to get the one with their name on it.  But that somewhat
defeats the purpose of the pinata based on my experiences.

So, how have you handled this event, successfully?

Thanks!!

---
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Buffy Hyler (hyler@ast.saic.com)
SAIC, Campus Point
San Diego, California
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: seanna@bnr.ca (Seanna Watson)
Subject: Re: looking for book
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:24:03 GMT



tadpole@ucrmath.ucr.edu (tad white) writes:

> Some time ago my wife saw a children's book consisting primarily of
> carefully composed photographs, each of which had a mouse in
> some inconspicuous hiding place.
>
I have seen a similar book called _Herbie_Hamster_Where_Are_You_.
(I don't have it; one of my kids brought it home from the school 
library.)  It has a story and hand drawn pictures, and it is quite
challenging to find the hamster (like Where's Waldo).  It is for 
older kids than _Goodnight_Moon_ (4-6yo).

-- 
Seanna Watson   Bell-Northern Research, 
(seanna@bnr.ca) Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Opinions, what opinions?  Oh *these* opinions. | It's hard to seize the
No, they're not BNR's, they're mine.           | day when you must first
I knew I'd left them somewhere.                | grapple with the morning.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: riggle@adobe.com (Kathleen Riggle)
Subject: Chicken Pox
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 06:23:10 GMT


Well, we started the holidays with a Merry Christmas ear infection
and ended with Happy New Year chicken pox.  Rachel is pretty miserable
and covered with pox.  She is also running a high fever, but we are 
handling it.  We aren't sleeping much, but we will live.

Anyway, I'm concerned about Dave.  He hasn't had chicken pox and 
we figure it's only a matter of time until he comes down with them.
How bad is chicken pox in adults?  What are possible complications
and is there anything that we can do now to make his case milder?
He called his doctor, but the best information the nurse could give
him was, "Stay away from your daughter."  Well, duh, he's already
been exposed.  

I suppose there might be a better group to post this to, but I assume
that someone has gone through this already here.  

We weren't really sure that Rachel had chicken pox at first.  She had
a few in the normal places (face, neck) but most were concentrated
under her armpits.  The bumps were also very small.  I had a few
guilty moments when it appeared that the spots were congregating in
the places that she is dirtiest. (under the arms, behind the ears,
neck).  Rachel has sensitive skin, so we don't use a lot of soap
when she takes a bath.  In fact, many baths we don't use soap at all.
I think from now on, I'll be more diligent.

Thanks,
Kathie
From: mlinda@novell.com (M'Linda Taylor)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Early Puberty (summary)**LONG**
Date: 5 Jan 93 20:20:48 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Novell Inc., Austin, TX.

In article <1993Jan5.193114.959@cbnewse.cb.att.com> elonich@cbnewse.cb.att.com (diane.e.pedersen) writes:
>
>One thing I didn't see in the summary of articles on early
>menses is the correlation between menses and no longer
>growing much in height.  Apprarently menstruation is a trigger
>for the growing ends of bones to start hardening, so only
>a couple more inches in height will happen.  The point is
>that if a girl is very short relative to adult women and menses
>seems to be coming, a parent may want to consult with a doctor
>about medication to delay menses until the girl
>has grown a bit more.

Diane, 

I was 9 years old when I was blessed with this event (really, I could
have waited a few more years.....) %>  I was about 4' tall by High School
I was 5'1" in my late teens I stabilized at 5'3 and some how between ages
23 and 25 grew to 5'5".  I don't know if I got lucky or not.

M'Linda

************************************************
*           - Lonestar -                       *
*Internet: mlinda@novell.COM                   *
*UUCP: {ames,sun,apple,amdahl}!novell!mlinda   *
************************************************
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: rw9601@albnyvms.bitnet
Subject: Re: Chicken Pox
Reply-To: rw9601@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 17:03:23 GMT

I was exposed to chicken pox several times during my life, and
the most recent time was when I was 23.  I have never caught it,
and I guess that if I was going to have gotten it, I would have
by now.
 
When I asked my doctor why I hadn't gotten it, she said it was
possible that I had, but that it had been a very milk case and that
I just hadn't noticed it.
 
Is it possible that that happened to your husband?
 
Also, you might try Aveeno cleansing bar on your daughter.  It
contains no soap and is very mild on skin.  They also make a bath
powder which is FANTASTIC for bathing Chicken Pox patients in -
it gets rid of the itch like nothing else.  It is used for sunburn,
poison ive and oak and exczema also.  It contains oiled ground up
oatmeal, among other things.  It's NOT cheap, though, but it's
worth every cent.

R. Weiss
Newsgroups: misc.kids,soc.men,alt.atheism,alt.sex.wizards
From: ramon@convex.com (Ramon Dominguez)
Subject: Re: A few facts about circumcision
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 04:59:47 GMT
Organization: The Arts Babblative and Scribblative
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <93004.202139RIPBC@CUNYVM.BITNET> <RIPBC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
=>   Perhaps the best argument is that circumcision makes sense precisely
=>because it makes no sense.  Many communities  have irrational customs which
=>others, for obvious reasons, do not want to follow.  This means that this
=>custom becomes a mark of membership in the community and people within
=>the community can recognise and identify with other members of it and
=>help each other.  In game theoretic terms, a coalition is formed.
=>Sikhs do not cut their hair and wear turbans even when it is boiling hot.
=>Zoroastrians leave their dead exposed to be picked at by vultures.  Etc.
=>etc, etc, as the King of Siam nee Yul Brynner used to say.  Don't Masons
=>and Elks dress up in funny clothes?  And what about the KKK with their
=>white sheets?  It all has the same purpose.
=>
=>Just to prevent people getting mad at me, I will say that ONE of the
=>customs mentioned above (but only one!) does make sense.
=>-
=>-Jim Copeland
=>
=>Rohit Parikh


So... Don't keep us in suspense!  Which one is it?  Personally, I would vote
for not making the vultures go hungry.

-- 
Ramon Dominguez             | "Work is the curse of the drinking class"       
Convex Computer Corporation |                            --Oscar Wilde
ramon@convex.com            | "Ceci n'est pas une .signature file"
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: chrisw@chopin.FtCollins.NCR.com (Chris Whitley)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: RE: Help with Spanking Alternatives
Date: 4 Jan 93 21:01:39 GMT
Reply-To: chrisw@chopin.FtCollins.NCR.com (Chris Whitley)
Distribution: world
Organization: NCR Microelectronics, Ft. Collins, CO

>I'm really interested in alternatives to spanking when dealing with
>children too young to understand reasoning.  My son and daughter are 17
>months old and they are starting to get into behaviors I'm not sure how
>to handle.

[stuff deleted]

>We've gotten into spaking their hands for this and
>threatening to take them out of their high chairs. 
>Sometimes they even smile after being slapped!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I have been thinking about the same dilemna as you and with the
same initial motivation (playing with Xmas lights).  I slapped
my daughter's hand for the first time for repeated fooling around
with the lights.  She reacted with great ANGER and was absolutely
INDIGNANT, but did not seem the least bit 1) put off or 2) scared.
Worse, she continued just as with the other methods I'd tried to
stop her.

The episode bothered me, so I was discussing it with a friend with
a same-aged child.  She said she had done the same sort of thing,
and was telling me how she thought this was okay.  BUT, then, her
discussion made an inadvertent point to me....she said, "But, you
know, sometimes it doesn't stop her any better than anything else."
This had been my observation thus far, albeit not from a history of
consistent spanking. And I wondered...if this method is no more 
effective than others, _why_ choose it??

When I think back to being spanked as a child, this method was
no more or less likely to make me obey than any other, although it does
lower my opinions of my parents in general, even now.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Whitley            email: Chris.Whitley@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM
NCR Microelectronics     Phone: (303) 223-5100 ext. 314
2001 Danfield Court        Fax: (303) 226-9556
Ft. Collins, CO  80525
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: cathy@octel.com (Cathy Kearns)
Subject: Re: Help with Spanking Alternatives
Keywords: long
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 19:18:54 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.202853.18534@trentu.ca> xtkmg@trentu.ca (Kate Gregory) writes:
>I was beginning to wonder if I was the only parent on the net who doesn't
>leave her child alone in the room with the Xmas tree (ours is up till
>at least today -- Epiphany). We didn't do anything special except move
>breakable ornaments up where they wouldn't be knocked off if she just
>walked too close, but that's because Beth too is never alone while
>awake. She is 3.5 years old, and yes, she's an only child. We have an
>open plan house so we aren't necessarily in the same room, but we can
>see her and she can see us. She sometimes will go downstairs and come
>right back, or go up to her room for something and come back, but she
>does not spend unsupervised time playing in any room of the house, much
>less one that contains something delicate and dangerous like a Xmas
>tree.

>Am I weird in this? Do most of you regularly leave preschoolers alone
>for more than, say 2 minutes?

Do you mean do preschoolers regularly leave their mommies alone for
more than, say 2 minutes?  Okay, my daughter also watches me shower,
mostly because if I lock the door I come out to find her in a heap
on the floor crying.  

Right now, the only time she seems to do things by herself is when
she is watching videos in her room, and we don't want to push that
too much.  Now, admittedly, its kind of fun to let her help in the
kitchen.  And I love to watch her put puzzles together.  And I can't
expect her to figure out her workbooks all by herself.  But I am
getting just a bit tired to patting all her "babies".  And if I'm
there, she doesn't do the puzzles herself, which makes her so proud
if she does do them herself.  I've noticed that when we color together
it quickly evolves into mommy drawing requests, and she doesn't want
to draw anything.  

Any ideas on getting her just a little more independent.  (I miss
interacting with my husband.)

						Cathy

We were lucky.  She has always (Since her first mobile Chirstmas at
14 months)  been very gentle with "fragile" things
like Christmas tree ornaments.  It's so cute to watch her gently hold
her favorites.
From: lauraf@classy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Laura Floom)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Fertility and frequency
Date: 12 Jan 1993 17:51:02 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: classy.jpl.nasa.gov
Keywords: Sperm

In article <1993Jan12.153800.26681@chpc.utexas.edu> jbyrd@chpc.utexas.edu (Jan Byrd) writes:
>In article <1isoinINNsin@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>, lauraf@classy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Laura Floom) writes:
>|> 
>|> Thats what I have heard too. Also, wear loose fitting underwear and pants,
>|> avoid hot baths, jacuzzis, etc. But, this is important when the mans sperm
>|> count is marginal. There are plenty of people out there going at it like
>|> bunnies, and reproducing like bunnies too. The original poster should consider
>|> having his sperm count checked. It is a fairly easy procedure to check out
>                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>|> a mans sperm count, motility, etc.
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>|> 
>|> Laura Floom
> 
>If only it were that easy to "check out" the prospective MAMA!  I think 
>that's why most infertility workups START OUT with a sperm count, etc,
>because if that checks out O.K., they generally stop looking at HIM and
>focus their attention on HER.  My infertility experiences are over 9
>years old though (they ended successfully, I might add :-), so maybe 
>it's different now. 
>
As of 3 years ago, it was still the same, and I suspect it still is. But,
remember, many fertility problems go undiagnosed, so it is really hard
to determine if there is a problem with either the man or woman, but
the fertility field is just not advanced enough to even check/know about it.
My brother and SIL went thru a couple of years trying to determine why they
couldnt conceive a child. About 7 years ago, my brother had a test on his
sperm to make sure it could penetrate an egg. At the time, this was a very
new test, and before that they really didnt know. I wonder how many other
things they can test for that they couldnt before.

Still, the procedures he went thru were pretty easy for him. All it required,
is well, we all know what he needed to do, right? ;-) I also had some
fertility problems and I had to have lots of test, many of which were quite
painful, and expensive. 

BTW, I have heard that many men refuse to have a fertility workup when the
wife is having trouble conceiving. Pretty odd!

Laura Floom
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: jbrindle@halcyon.com (Jennifer Brindle)
Subject: Re: Family safety (Was Re: How to protect your family from the State)
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 08:41:16 GMT

In article <C0Hvsq.1M6z@austin.ibm.com> jlpicard@austin.ibm.com writes:
>
>snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt - K31) writes:
>
>> Issue #1 family safety:
>> Suppose you were driving alone on a poorly lit street, no other cars and
>> suddenly an unmarked car pulls up behind you and flashes a red light.
>> Do you pull over just cause of a red light?  Do you keep driving at or
>> below the speed limit to a crowded and well lit place first?
>
>Not sure what the cop would think, but I'd go for the 2nd option (stopping
>in a crowded/well-lit place).
>
>Anyone know what the "legal" take on this is?
>

If anyone in an unmarked car flashed a RED light I wouldn't stop for all
the tea in China.  I'd drive to the nearest police station, pronto.  I
remember the Bird Road Rapist in Miami about 12-15 years ago.  That was
EXACTLY his tactic.  And it worked.  You'd be surprised how many people
were fooled by a flashing light.

No siren, no cop.  NOthing wrong with going to a police station, especially
if you explain yourself.  I wouldn't go to a well-lit place as that wouldn't
necessarily deter someone hell-bent on assaulting you.  But a cop would.

Jennifer

Newsgroups: misc.kids