HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: oscar@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Oscar DeMartino)
Subject: Re: Killing burglars.
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:56:48 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.181611.23008@informix.com> davek@informix.com (David Kosenko) writes:
>Sorry, but this doesn't wash.  First of all, we have the concept of
>guilty until proven innocent, generally by a jury of your peers.  Thus
>if someone breaks a law, it is up to the system to find them guilty.
>Someone breaking into your house *still* has the right to due
>process under the law.  Sure, if they threaten your life, you can
>shoot/whatever them in self defence.  The onus is on *you*, though, to
>be able to prove your life was threatened.  This does not always lead

	Please explain to me why in the first case, the someone breaking
	into my home, they will still have "the right to due
	process under the law" but if I shoot someonein self denfense
	then "The onus is on *you* to be able to prove your life
	was threatened"?  This seems to be a bit of a double standard.

>to pleasant situations (and most of the posters have expressed their
>dislike of this idea).  What you must remember is that once a 
>precedent has been set for the removal of basic rights, it becomes
>difficult to stop.  Thus, when you get pulled over for drunk driving
>and the police officer proceeds to beat the shit out of you (not that
>any such event could happen in this great country of ours) because
>"you are guilty of a crime against society" [drunk driving] and
>should therefore "loose [sic] all rights," you might find that idea a
>little less appealing.

	You seem to be comparing apples and oranges.  You start out
	talking about an individual protecting themselves, their 
	property, and/or their family, you then go on to use that
	argument in bashing the police.  You can not compare these
	situations in anyway.  The police do and should live by a
	more stringent set of rules then individuals do in their
	own homes.  If examples are to be used make sure they apply.

>
>
>Followups should probably go to talk.law or somesuch.
>
>Dave
>-- 
>Disclaimer: These opinions are not those of Informix Software, Inc.
>**************************************************************************
>The heart and the mind on a parallel course, never the two shall meet.
>						-E. Saliers

Fred
-- 
Oscar "Fred" DeMartino - J.P.L. (818) 306-6181             J  PPP   L
4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pas, CA. 91109  MS: 525-3660         J  P  P  L
MAYBE: oscar@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV                   J   J  PPP   L
ARPA: jpl-devvax!oscar@cit-vax   FAX: (818) 306-6912    JJJ   P     LLLLL
From: glenn@sloth.ncsl.nist.gov
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Garage Door Opener Regulations
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:27:58 GMT
Reply-To: glenn@sloth.ncsl.nist.gov
Organization: N.I.S.T
Posting-Front-End: Shinbun -- the OpenLook newsreader



I just purchased a Genie Garage Door opener and it has a mechanism built in that
causes the door to automatically open if something is in it's path.  I don't
see any need for an optical device to do the same thing.

Rob G.
From: srivatsa@karna.Eng.Sun.COM (Chakra Srivatsa)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: New California Earthquake Insurance
Date: 18 Aug 1992 21:48:06 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: ca
Reply-To: srivatsa@karna.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: karna
Keywords: Earthquake Insurance

It's that time of the year again, to renew my homeowner's insurance.
There's this new wrinkle that the State of California has thrown in,
in it's infinite wisdom:  CA provides mandatory quake insurance of
upto $15K, with a variable deductible, for about $60 in premium.

I already have 100K of quake insurance with a 5% deductible, with
State Farm (have to check if I have the code upgrade rider!).

Can anyone answer these questions!

1) Can I use the $15K of CA's coverage to pay State Farm's deductible?
2) Who pays what first?  State Farm says that these are 2 separate
   policies, and that one doesn't affect the other. Huh?
3) If I have a 15K loss, how do I split the claims?
4) Can I ignore CA's insurance (I don't want IOUs :-)
5) The SF agent suggested raising my SF policy to $150K with a 10%
   deductible, so that the $15K deductible would be covered by CA.  Seems
   a bit much to me.
---
The one l lama, he's a priest. 		srivatsa@eng.sun.com
The two l llama, he's a beast.
And I will bet a silk pajama, 
there isn't a three l lllama!		says Ogden Nash
From: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Person in flux)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Pigeon Repellent  ???
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:07:07 GMT
Reply-To: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology

In article <1992Aug19.124856.92531@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, maw2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu 
(MICHELE A. WHITE) writes:
>
>I am looking for a way to get rid of pigeons who have taken a liking to our
>brick window sills.  The sills are getting pretty dirty and they aren't afraid
>of my cats.  Any suggestions?  

I had pigeons roosting on some decorative brackets along the eaves of the front
of my house; I dissuaded them from sitting up there and pooping all over the
place by installing a product called "Nixalite."  This stuff is strips of
aluminum spikes that are most unappealing for birds to sit on.  The strips can
be installed anywhere birds roost.  The company manufactures 3 or 4 varieties,
depending on the type of bird you're trying to discourage, and offers a sample
pack consisting of 4 24" strips for ~$45.  Not cheap, but very effective.

I know that some people use a goop that birds don't like to walk on; I chose
not to do this because I didn't want to have to climb my ladder regularly to
replenish the supply.  That might be an easier and cheaper solution for you.

Katie
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: wlg0988@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Wanbing Li)
Subject: life span of furnace and AC ?
Summary: nothing
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:10:45 GMT
Keywords: house pricing


What is the life expectancy of furnaces and central ais (airs)?
I am looking a t a house tht is 21 years old, and has all the original
stuff : siding (pressed wood chps chips), roof, furnace, and AC
will I have major repar (repair) bill s later if I buy this house ?
thanks.
From: dgordon@intuit.intuit.COM (Dan Gordon)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Roof rats
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:40:04 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Intuit Int., Menlo Park, CA

Any ideas about how to rid our house and grounds of roof rats?

Dan Gordon

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: lowry@watson.ibm.com (Andy Lowry)
Subject: Re: Pigeon Repellent  ???
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 22:30:18 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <1992Aug19.124856.92531@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> maw2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (MICHELE A. WHITE) writes:
 > I am looking for a way to get rid of pigeons who have taken a liking to our
 > brick window sills.  The sills are getting pretty dirty and they aren't afraid
 > of my cats.  Any suggestions?  (One of them even has a bread wrapper twister
 > and a message attached to his leg!)

I don't know the details of this "solution" but something that made
the news here recently was the case of a Columbia University professor
in the School of Social Work whose neighbor had installed bird
feeders.  She consequently had a problem with pigeons alighting on her
terrace railing, and she asked her building superintendent if he could
do anything about it.  He put down a layer of some sort of "glue" that
was supposed to repel the pigeons but I guess he put it down too
thickly and the pigeons started dying.  Well, the neighbor called the
ASPCA, who notified the authorities, and this professor was arrested
during class and led, handcuffed, from her classroom.  She has filed
suit with some subset of the neighbor, the ASPCA, and the city.

The moral: be careful if you use some sort of glue-like repellent,
lest you find yourself being dragged in to jail on charges of pigeon
massacre.
--
Andy Lowry, lowry@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7925
IBM Research, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: kenney@hsi.com (Brian Kenney)
Subject: Re: Masking tape residue
Organization: 3M Health Information Systems, Wallingford, CT
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:46:41 GMT

In misc.consumers.house, davek@informix.com (David Kosenko) writes:
>My question is: is there anything short of tons of elbow grease and soapy
>water that can get this gunk off without destroying the floor's finish?

If you use vegetable oil and a little elbow grease, it will come right off.

-Bri


Xref: sparky misc.consumers.house:10861 talk.politics.guns:19332
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Killing burglars.
Date: 15 Aug 92 20:41:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Aug15.204131.1158
Followup-To: talk.poltics.guns
Organization: Western Washington University


Followups directed to talk.politics.guns, as the topic demands.
becker@edwards-vax.af.mil writes:

>All this about killing burglers and the justice system......I have some
>comments.

	One nit.  Burglars break in during the day, when they think you 
are gone.  Home invaders break in at night, because they don't mind a
little rape and murder to brighten up their night, and they don't give
a rats ass if you are home or not.   Different kinds of criminal 
prefer different times to attack.

>...To relate how screwed up our system is I know of a woman who was fired
>from her job as a cashier because she was caught steeling money.  She
>admitted to it, signed a statement then turned around and sued the
>company for STRESS as to the way they went about firing her!  Are you
>ready for this.......she won!  Now, in my opinion she never should
>have had the opportunity to sue  and sue for what????? STRESS?????!
>Its ass backwards!

	My uncle had the same experience, but the thief sued him because
(drum roll...)  he wouldn't give the thief a good reference.   Hardy har
har.

>Lastly, if someone broke into my home I would shoot to kill.  This is
>my home you are speaking of and no one has a right to enter it unless
>I invite them.  I'm not assuming anything.  If they choose to breakin
>obiviously they KNOW they are not welcome and are going to do something
>illegal.  The point is they are where they don't belong and I'm not
>going to stand around asking questions.  I will shoot to kill.  I have
>my family to protect as well as myself.  The more society cowers down
>the more these guys will get away with, the braver they'll become and
>crime will esscalate.

You are correct sir, but in court pronounce that as "shoot to stop" for
best results.		

Jim Del Vecchio
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: bob@sj.ate.slb.com (Bob Firestine)
Subject: Inexpensive CAD packages for house, yard, etc.
Reply-To: bob@sj.ate.slb.com (Bob Firestine)
Organization: TYECIN Systems, Inc., Mountain View, CA.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 22:05:32 GMT

I'm sure this has been asked and answered many times, sorry to waste your time.

Are there any inexpensive CAD packages for DOS that one could use to 
design one's landscaping or rooms in a house?  Thanks in advance.

Bob

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Firestine
Internet: bob@sj.ate.slb.com
UUCP:     {amdahl,decwrl,uunet}!sjsca4!bob
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: wild@eng.umd.edu (Randolph F. Wild)
Subject: Re: Hornets and wasps and bees oh my!
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 16:49:15 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: usa
Originator: wild@pepsi.eng.umd.edu


In article <11012@rls.UUCP>, randy@rls.UUCP (randall l. smith) writes:
> randy@rls.uucp writes:
>> The "yellow jackets" you refer to are an imported species that came from
>> Asia in the mid 70's and their nests (usually in the ground) should be
>> destroyed whenever possible. 

  [Other parts of message deleted.]

>
>The P. germanica have are non-native species and should be eliminated
>from North America.  They are scavengers and pests as well.  And that's
>why I said what I said. 

  This is not a sufficient reason to exterminate a species.  By this reasoning
humans should be exterminated from North America as well.  This shortsighted
definition of native ignores the fact of evolution of species propagation.
 All of the flora and fuana of Hawaii with the exception of a handfull of 
species are not native.  By your reasoning we should kill off the Iiwi bird
to extinction.  Just because a species is not native doesn't mean it doesn't
mean it has no value.

                                        RANDY


Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: chn@beta.lanl.gov (Charles Neil)
Subject: Re: Which garage door opener to use?
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 13:55:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.172251.23957@primerd.prime.com> mguyott@eriador.prime.com (M. Guyott) writes:
>
>I am getting ready to purchase two garage door openers.  So far the
>"Genie" garage door openers seem to be the best/most popular.  I would
>be interested in hearing about other people's experiences with garage
>door openers and which brands of openers they would recommend.

I had a Genie until 1 month ago.  It was a "tape" drive mechanism, where the
shuttle is attached to a perforated plastic tape that engages a gear on the
drive motor.  The perforations stripped.  I called local dealers/installers,
and was advised to avoid tape type openers.  One place recommended openers
by Chamberlain, especially if I were to do it myself.  It turns out the local
"True Value" hardware store's openers are made by Chamberlain, so I put on
a 1/3 HP model.  The box had been plundered of its instructions, so I called
the prominently-displayed 800 help phone number on the box and got expert
instructions (and encouragement) from the company.  It works well so far.
-- 

	-Charlie Neil (chn@lanl.gov)
	 Los Alamos National Laboratory (505) 665-0978
From: stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Stoffel)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Garage Door Opener Regulations
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:15:24 GMT
Reply-To: stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Stoffel)
Distribution: na
Organization: Annapolis Detachment, CARDEROCKDIV, NSWC

In misc.consumers.house, denbeste@enigma.bgsu.edu (William C DenBesten) writes:
>glenn@sloth.ncsl.nist.gov writes:
>>
>> I just purchased a Genie Garage Door opener and it has a mechanism built in t
>hat
>> causes the door to automatically open if something is in it's path.  I don't
>> see any need for an optical device to do the same thing.
>>
>My door is adjusted to reverse at the appropriate pressure.  Nonetheless,
>if I had a kid, I would add an optical sensor. I just don't feel that the
>door reverses softly enough if it were to come down on a kid.
>In fact, I could not lighten the pressure enough that it would be soft
>enough for me to be comfortable and still overcome inertia. Heck, I may

There seems to be considerable variability between the different designs
& manufacturers of these things. I've seen some that are disastors waiting
to happen. The Genie screw drive, however, is IMO one of the safer systems
WHEN PROPERLY INSTALLED AND ADJUSTED.
It can be adjusted to reverse when it touches the styrofoam shell from
its own packing box. In fact, that's how they should be set & tested
per the owner's manual. The real key to the Genie, or I suspect any
other system with a resistance based auto-reverse, is to set them properly
and check them periodically. The only safe option to proper maintenance
is some type of object sensor with a fail-safe capability (or straight
manual mode of course).

bte, I have no relationship with Genie other than being a satisfied
owner.
__________________________________________________________________________
Bill Stoffel              |  CARDEROCKDIV, NSWC  |First things first!     |
stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil |  Code 2759           | (But not necessarily in|
(410) 267-3825            |  Annapolis, MD 21402 |that order) - The Doctor|
_________________________________________________|________________________|
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Shooting wild pigs
Date: 18 Aug 92 00:39:22 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Aug14.160848.14208@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> jheath@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Jim Heath) writes:
>From article <1992Aug14.003535.10232@michael.apple.com>, by ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith):
 
>> I'd rather not try bow hunting a pig ... It does work, but you have
>> to be good at it (and good at fast re-nocking of arrows!)  
>>
>
>Hmmm, would a crossbow be legal?

Crossbow hunting is allowed under Ca. F&G regulations ('General Big 
Game Regulations' pg 8) but only 'wild pigs only during the regular
seasons.'  Since the 'regular season' is all year, that tends to 
mean 'yes' but legalese never wants to be so clear ...

It takes longer to cock and nock a second crossbow bolt than a 
second arrow ...  (BTW, Ca. defines a crossbow as NOT being archery...)

I'd go for a compound bow rather than a crossbow just for the 
second shot capability... I've had a pig charge me, I'd not want
the experience with an empty crossbow ... 

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
From: davel@booboo.SanDiego.NCR.COM (David Lord)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Splitting a circuit
Keywords: electricity
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:13:50 GMT
Reply-To: davel@booboo.SanDiego.NCR.COM (David Lord)
Organization: NCR Corporation, Rancho Bernardo

In article <jmcging.713646675@ssa.gov> jmcging@oss724.ssa.gov writes:
>We've just installed a built in microwave over the range (replaced the
>hood over the range) and ran into a problem.  The house is 23 years old
>and has 150 amp service.  I have breaker space available.  Problem is
>that running the microwave for any extended periond pops the breaker,
>unless we turn off all the lights on that circuit <g>.  [Dinner by candle
>light]
>
>We have a guy coming out to split the circuit, but wondered if switching
>from incadescent to flourescent lighting fixtures would help?  The old 
>owners put 100 watt bulbs into everything, and switching to 60 in the 
>fixtures extended the running time a whole lot.  Would swapping to flourescent
>[which I prefer to incadescent anyway] further reduce load on the circuit,
>so maybe we could turn a fixture back on?

You may want to take a better look at what circuits you have available
in the kitchen. Your outlets should be on a 20 AMP circuit that is
probably separate from your lighting circuit. Sounds like the range
hood was originally installed on a 15 AMP lighting circuit rather than
the 20 AMP circuit that the microwave should be on. Do your outlets
(the ones over the counters) go off when your breaker flips? Rather
than add a whole new circuit you might be able to simply move the microwave
on to the twenty AMP circuit that _should_ be there.

Regarding the flouresent lights, your breaker shouldn't be flipping
at less than say 1400-1600 watts on a 15 AMP circuit so you likely
have a bunch of lights and stuff on that circuit. Your microwave
probably draws up to about 800 watts. Replacing two 100 watt bulbs
with two 40 watt flouresents isn't going to buy you a whole lot
of margin.

Disclaimer: I'm not an electrician or an EE so check this information
out for yourself.
From: stellay@informix.com (Stella Yan)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: wall paper on plaster walls with cracks
Date: 20 Aug 92 00:58:29 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.
Originator: stellay@sparcle


I have a 50 year old house which has plaster interior walls.  There
are many cracks, some big, some small, appearing here and there probably
due to structural settling and weather changes.  (Our area has very heavy 
clay soil which expands and contracts a lot as the season changes.) We 
patched them and painted them, but they reappear after a while.  I have 
once read in some newspaper column that if you have plaster walls, 
you just have to learn to live with cracks, or you have to keep re-patching 
often. 

I am thinking about repairing the cracks and then hang wall paper, so I don't 
have to deal with the cracks again for a long time.  Assuming that I repair 
the cracks before hanging the wall paper, when the plaster crack again will 
it crack right through the wall paper?  Or will the cracks stretch the wall 
paper to create creases or lines?

Thanks in advance.

Stella



===============================================================================
Stella Yan					stellay@informix.com
Informix Software, Inc.				{uunet|pyramid}!infmx!stellay
===============================================================================



-- 
===============================================================================
Stella Yan					stellay@informix.com
Informix Software, Inc.				{uunet|pyramid}!infmx!stellay
===============================================================================
From: parikh@sirocco.eng.hou.compaq.com (Vijay Parikh)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Frogs in front yard
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:37:43 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Compaq Computer Corp.

During the last 2-3 months, it had been raining heavily in Houston and I guess
that's when we started noticing a couple of frogs in our front yard.  BTW, we
have 3 ft. deep bushes that give enough room to frogs to hibernate.

Now that, they have gotten so big, they literally jump about 2 ft. up in the
air (when I mow my yard, sorry can't run my mower over them).  My kids are
scarred who used to enjoy the frogs when they were smaller in size.

How to get rid of the frogs?

thx,

Vijay Parikh
Sr. Mech. Engr.
Compaq Computer Corporation
From: jeffj@falcon.mpd.tandem.com (Jeff Jones)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Radiant barrier roof decking
Keywords: Kool-ply
Date: 21 Aug 92 01:10:04 GMT
Reply-To: jeffj@falcon.mpd.tandem.com
Followup-To: misc.consumers.house
Organization: Tandem Computers Incorporated

I have heard that radiant barrier roof decking (e.g. Kool-ply) does a good
job of lowering the temperature of the attic spaces below it.  I recently
had a builder warn me that although it will reduce heat in the attic, it
raises the temperature of the roofing above it and may significantly reduce
shingle life.  Does anyone know if this is true?

Also, will Kool-Ply still help if there is no attic space below the roof,
as in a vaulted ceiling?   In this situation there would just be the
roof decking,
some batt insulation and then the ceiling drywall.

Thanks.
--
Jeffry L. Jones				Tandem Computers Incorporated
jeffj@mpd.tandem.com			14231 Tandem Boulevard
(512) 244-8914				Austin, TX  78728-6699
From: rmartin@crchh109.bnr.ca (Richard Martin)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: 6" walls and 6" insulation
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:05:58 GMT
Reply-To: rmartin@crchh109.bnr.ca (Richard Martin)
Distribution: na
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx


We are planning to have a house built next spring.  The house will be a 
2-story colonial type.  Is it worth the extra money to have 6" exterior
walls with 6" insulation istead of the normal 4"?  Will the extra thickness
provide much energy savings over the 4"?  If not, will the structure be stronger
with the 6" than the 4", and is it worth it?

Thanks