HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Re: Oh Really!!!
Summary: Shifting attack - yet no real response. 
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 03:12:36 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.000916.23926@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout) writes:
>Article: 52260 of talk.politics.mideast, (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
>
>>No, Khaled, I suggest you give *us* a break.  If the above isn't an ad
>>hominem attack, I don't know what is.  And judging Steve's intentions
>>both from this posting and from his previous postings on this net, he's
>>completely on the level - he's being honest with you.  The fact is, the
>>above is just a completely unjustified and wrong-headed ad hominem
>>outburst, which we don't need on this net.
>>
>     Well Mr. Perlman, if you are really a defender of those who are wronged, I
>do not see you replying to Gideon Ehrlich who bluntly accused me of loving the
>killing of Jews.  Such belligerent and outrageous accusation by Ehrlich, IS
>WHAT WE DO NOT NEED ON THIS NET (and for you to condemn).

Mr. Shammout, I have been posting on this net for nearly two years now,
and reading it for even longer than that.  I don't need you to tell me
what is and is not needed on this net, especially when you so blatantly
make ad hominem attacks yourself, and twist others' words with alarming
regularity.  It is more than clear that you need to consider your words
a lot more carefully before posting them, and this response - simply
shifting your attack - just doesn't wash.

I think it's well known on this net that I don't agree with a lot of
what Gideon Ehrlich says, and I tend not to respond - either way - to
what he says.  That should not be taken to indicate agreement.  There is
a significant difference; I suggest you learn it fast.

-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Arab Jews are ARABS
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 17:41:04 GMT

hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
#dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
## 
## I understand that in Iran, Syria and other countries Jews are not allowed
#                    ^^^^^^^                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
## to vote and suffer many other restrictions. Is this true or not?
#  ^^^^^^^
#This is not true. Indeed, in Iran, Jews have guaranteed representation
#in the Majlis (parliament). While this may not be democracy as it is
#known in the U.S., you are quite wrong that Iranian Jews are not
#permitted to vote or run for office.

Thanks for the correction. So, are there any other countries except
Syria where Jews are not allowed to vote and/or run for office?

-Danny Keren.
 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: Arab Jews are ARABS
Reply-To: Hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron, Experiment ZEUS bei HERA
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 00:49:53 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.174104.21037@cs.brown.edu>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
writes:

|>hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
|>#dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
|>## 
|>## I understand that in Iran, Syria and other countries Jews are not allowed
|>#                    ^^^^^^^                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|>## to vote and suffer many other restrictions. Is this true or not?
|>#  ^^^^^^^
|>#This is not true. Indeed, in Iran, Jews have guaranteed representation
|>#in the Majlis (parliament). While this may not be democracy as it is
|>#known in the U.S., you are quite wrong that Iranian Jews are not
|>#permitted to vote or run for office.
|>
|>Thanks for the correction. So, are there any other countries except
|>Syria where Jews are not allowed to vote and/or run for office?

Come now Danny, Jews are allowed to stand for election on precisely the same
basis as other Syrian citizens. If they happen to be President Assad you are
allowed to stand for the office of President. Otherwise you are not allowed to
stand for anything at all.


--

Phill Hallam-Baker
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout)
Subject: Oh Really!!!
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 00:09:16 GMT

Article: 52260 of talk.politics.mideast, (Eric S. Perlman) writes:

>No, Khaled, I suggest you give *us* a break.  If the above isn't an ad
>hominem attack, I don't know what is.  And judging Steve's intentions
>both from this posting and from his previous postings on this net, he's
>completely on the level - he's being honest with you.  The fact is, the
>above is just a completely unjustified and wrong-headed ad hominem
>outburst, which we don't need on this net.
>
     Well Mr. Perlman, if you are really a defender of those who are wronged, I
do not see you replying to Gideon Ehrlich who bluntly accused me of loving the
killing of Jews.  Such belligerent and outrageous accusation by Ehrlich, IS
WHAT WE DO NOT NEED ON THIS NET (and for you to condemn).

Wa Salam
------------------
Khaled Shammout
From: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Arab Jews are ARABS
Date: 1 Oct 1992 20:47:09 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout) says:

>     It seems that you are acustomed to the Israeli law that discriminates
>among Jewish citizens and non-Jewish citizens.

It seems to be that you are ignorant of Israeli law, which does not
discriminate between Jewish and non-Jewish citizens.

>But that is not the case in the
>Arab countries.

That certainly is the case.  For example, Jews aren't even allowed to live
in eastern Palestine (Jordan).

>#Also, there are many Jews who work for the
>#PLO (that is the Palestine Liberation Organization).
>
>>>Care to elaborate and give numbers? I have never heard of this.
>
>     I do not have any numbers but we knew a few Jews who did work for the PLO.
>
>Besides, it is not the figures that matter but rather the notion that
>Palestinian Jews work for the PLO to liberate their occupied country.
>
"Their occupied country"???  Do you consider Lebanon part of Palestine?
-- 
bx573@cleveland.freenet.edu----Alan H. Stein----stein@uconnvm.uconn.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Edward A Shnekendorf)
Subject: Re: Arab Jews are ARABS
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 04:00:43 GMT

kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout) writes:

>In Article: 52226 of talk.politics.mideast, (Edward A Shnekendorf) writes:

>>(Khaled Shammout) writes:

>>>     And finally, what about all those special rights and priviliges that are
>>>offered ONLY to the new comers to Israel.  And guess who the new comers
>>>are??? Jews, of course.

>>Maybe you forget that Israel is a Jewish State.  It is here for the benefit
>>and security of Jews.  Perhaps if Jews had been treated better in other parts
>                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>of the world including the Arab countries then such a thing would not have
>                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>been necessary.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>     AH HAAAA!  So the Jews did not want to settle in Palestine because of
>religious reasons!!!!!!

>     Just another proof in the defense of the Palestinian TRUTH.

What does this prove?  Of course Jews would still settle in Israel for 
religious reasons.  However, the concept of a Jewish State where Jews are
always in control was born from the mistreatment of Jews in other countries.
How this proves the "Palestinian TRUTH" (whatever that may be) evades me
completely.

>Wa Salam
>______________________
>
Khaled Shammout

Ed.
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: "SALEM" (Peace)!!! means "MURDER"!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 5 Oct 92 10:57:44 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <1992Oct4.165724.3417@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout) writes:
>
>In article (52134, talk.politics.mideast) Gideon Ehrlich writes:
>
>>But this is the main point , haled J Shammout many other Arabs in the
>                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>middle east and in other places do consider killing Jews as a good
>                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>action.
> ^^^^^^
>
>     This is outrageous Gideon.  How dare you accuse me and other Arabs of
>such a thing????   HOW DARE YOU!!!!!  Or is it that you can not find any valid
>argument to use???
>     Such accusations are arrogant, unproffessional, racist, and
>anti-semetic.  I DEMAND AN IMMEDIATE APOLOGY over the same newsgroup/s
>in which this accusation appeared.  And I mean immediate apology.
>
>____________________
>Khaled Shammout

Dear Khaled , if you dont like the face you see in the mirror don't
blame the mirror.

the fact is that neither  haled J Shammout nor any of the other Arabs
on the net has say any word as to the attemot to murder Avraham Cohen
the Arabian father and his 2 sons of Salem has done, He and his friend
just tried mocking me for my English !
 During the gulf war ALL Arabs used to dance on top of their houses while
Iraqies scads were on their way to Israel and there was a sirene
warning about that. Their song was :
  Sadam sadam        -    Sadam  Sadam
          ya habib   -      Beloved
  udrub udrub        -    hit  hiy
          Tel Abib   -     Tel Aviv


The slogan Arabs use to shout is :
ITBACH EL YAHUD   - slaoughter  the Jews . ( a mild version of that
is the slogan Juden Rause )
Such slogan shouting and a similar songs are a common part of Arabian
weddings at the Galilee and other places.
Many Arabs were cought before and after attempt to murder Jews and
they explain their deeds simply  " I came to kill Jews" they are
enjoying a wide support from their society. It was checked and found
that killing Jews is a high aspiration of most of the Arabs here, Even
professor Samocha ( a Jew) an extremely leftist declared that Arabian
willing to kill us can be expressed only when we are week , but if
there will be a peace and we will be considered as strong then Arabs
will not try killing Jews.
 I do not want to say that Druz, Curds and other minorities do enjoy
toleration among Arabs.
From: kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout)
Subject: Re: Arab Jews are ARABS
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 22:49:07 GMT

In Article: 52226 of talk.politics.mideast, (Edward A Shnekendorf) writes:

>(Khaled Shammout) writes:

>>     And finally, what about all those special rights and priviliges that are
>>offered ONLY to the new comers to Israel.  And guess who the new comers
>>are??? Jews, of course.

>Maybe you forget that Israel is a Jewish State.  It is here for the benefit
>and security of Jews.  Perhaps if Jews had been treated better in other parts
                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>of the world including the Arab countries then such a thing would not have
                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>been necessary.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

     AH HAAAA!  So the Jews did not want to settle in Palestine because of
religious reasons!!!!!!

     Just another proof in the defense of the Palestinian TRUTH.

Wa Salam
______________________
Khaled Shammout
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Subject: MEQ #3: Britain and Jordan in the 1948 war
Organization: Australian National University
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 11:56:00 GMT


      MEQ #3.  Abdullah vows to drive the Jews into the sea!

   I can to this day almost see [British Foreign Secretary] Mr. Bevin
   sitting at his table in that splendid room.  When I had finished
   my translation thus far, he interrupted [Jordanian prime minister]
   Tawfiq Pasha's statement by saying: 'It seems the obvious thing to do.'

   I reminded Tawfiq Pasha, speaking in Arabic, that the Arab Legion
   could not occupy the Gaza or upper Galilee, which had also been
   allotted to the Arabs.  Tawfiq Pasha accordingly made a statement
   to that effect, which I duly translated into English!

   'It seems the obvious thing to do', repeated Mr. Bevin, 'but do not go
   and invade the areas allotted to the Jews'.

   'We should not have the force to do so, even if we so desired', replied
   the Jordanian prime minister.
   ...
   Mr. Bevin thanked Tawfiq Pasha for his frank exposition of the position
   of Trans-Jordan, and expressed his agreement with the plans put forward.
   We rose, shook hands cordially, and took our leave.

   [Feb 6, 1948.  The "obvious thing to do" was for Jordan to annex the
   parts of the Arab State proposed by the UN contiguous with Jordan,
   without encroaching on the Jewish State.  Abdullah's plans to this
   effect are well-documented, though he changed his mind a number of
   times about the details.  The Jewish Agency and the UK were well aware
   of these plans and in fact held discussions with Abdullah on it.]

   Source: John Glubb, Soldier with the Arabs (Harper, 1957), p63, quoted
   by R. L. Jasse, Great Britain and Abdullah's plan to partition
   Palestine: a 'natural sorting out', Middle Eastern Studies, 22 (1986)
   p 509.  Jasse provides convincing evidence of Britain's acquiescence
   to Abdullah's plan, and also verifies Glubb's much-quoted assertion
   that the Arab Legion had strict orders to not invade the Jewish
   portion of Palestine.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Middle East Quotes is an occasional series of quotations on Middle
East history.  The editor does not necessarily approve of the sentiments
expressed in quotes, nor will he necessarily join in any discussion
they engender.  Contributions are welcome but will not necessarily be
accepted.  Full sources are essential.      Brendan McKay.
From: bgdv706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Noam Tractinsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Answer to Mr John
Date: 5 Oct 92 06:48:52 GMT
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin

In article <3911@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>, aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
> In article <BvBIJA.KFH.2@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
> 
> While Kuwait was crying out against the occupation of such a brutal
> dictatorship, they were the first to support the occupation of the
> land of another people.  They gave money to support Yasir Arafat
			   ========================================	
> and Hafiz Assad's stranglehold on Lebanon while turning its head against
> the massacres and the average Palestinian family living in poverty.  I
> don't recall how Kuwait supported the intefadah or Palestinian rights
> and self-determination.  


	From this I learn that you think that neither Hafiz Assad 
	nor Yassir Arafat support the average Palestinian family, 
	the intifadah, or Palestinian rights and self-determination.  

	Just what I thought al along. It's good to agree with you
	from time to time, Anisa.


> Anisa


Noam
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: A day in the life of a secret service
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 04:31:30 GMT

Oh no not again!?

In article <22485@venera.isi.edu# arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:

#Appeared in the Hebrew language Los Angeles paper "Hadshot L.A." (LA
#News), September 24, 1992.  Article supplied by the Israeli daily
#Hadashot.
#
#        WHY DID THE HIGH-RANKING SHABAK OFFICIAL HARASS
#          ISRAEL RADIO CORRESPONDENT CARMELA MENASHE?

Maybe beacuse she was listening to ARF on the short waves!?

#At the root of the story, according to the report, is a romantic
#affair...

Screech screech (sound of moi scratching his head in confusion).

Yigal, whi don't you switch to LA-ISHA? Much more juicy stories
there (and pictures of pretty girls, too!).

-Danny Keren.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Subject: MEQ #4: Arafat remembers the Alamo
Organization: Australian National University
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:31:38 GMT



      MEQ #3.  Yassir "Davy" Arafat remembers the Alamo...almost.

   Arafat talked about making Tripoli his "Stalingrad", just as he
   had about Beirut, but when the ships came to take him and 4,000
   guerillas to safety [late 1983 -bdm] ... Arafat again opted for
   life as a symbol rather than death as a martyr.  ... Bill Barrett
   [of the] Dallas Times Herald interviewed Arafat shortly before
   his evacuation from the northern Lebanese port.

   "I asked the chairman if he had ever heard of the Alamo", recalled
   Barrett.  "'Yes, yes', he replied, 'that famous castle in Texas'.
   Then I asked if he saw any similarities between the Alamo and his
   current plight. 'Yes, indeed', the chairman replied, and then he
   proceeded to talk about bravery and being surrounded by enemies
   and the importance of fighting for a cause and all that stuff.
   He was really warming to the topic.  Then I asked the chairman
   if he was aware that almost everyone at the Alamo died.  There
   was a pause---a very long pause. 'Come to think of it', Arafat
   said, 'the Alamo really isn't that similar', and then he went
   off to another topic."

   Source: Thomas Friedman, From Beirut to Jerusalem (1989) p 173.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Middle East Quotes is an occasional series of quotations on Middle
East history.  The editor does not necessarily approve of the sentiments
expressed in quotes, nor will he necessarily join in any discussion
they engender.  Contributions are welcome but will not necessarily be
accepted.  Full sources are essential.      Brendan McKay.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Re: Hello again...
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 15:48:48 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.172329.7623@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>I'm back on the net, after several weeks in exile due to hospitalization
>and surgery... which means I haven't caught up in ages. Anything anyone
>really wants me to see, please e-mail me with at rivk@panix.com (you *can*
>send it to the address I'm writing from, too, but it'll take longer for
>me to get around to reading it) and I will be very grateful... 
>
>	-Nora
>-- 
>"Light one candle for those who are suffering pain we learned so long ago..."

I Hope you are feeling well Nora.



-- 
Nabil Idriss                           |   We take customer satisfaction  
NCR - Midrange Products Division       |   personally.
      Columbia, South Carolina         |      
email: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM |
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: nkjle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000)
Subject: Re: Answer to Mr John
Organization: LC
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1992 05:51:43 GMT

In article <3950@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>In article <REUS.92Sep29164506@klein.euromath.dk> reus@klein.euromath.dk (Jens Peter Reus Christensen) writes:
>>
>>**********
>>
>> " ANISA ON THE NET "  You and your peoples support of Saddam Hussein
>>makes us speculate , are you really in love with him and support him
>>or are you just ...... 
>>We are not racist but we would not love to kiss him .

Aren't you lucky you were not one of those detainees/hostages that
had to kiss him upon departure!

>Since this is the answer *you* want to hear, I will tell
>you (shhh, don't tell anyone) - I am secretly in love

I didn't hear a thing :-) 

>with Saddam Hussein.  He is so devistatingly handsome.  I would

He is?  He certainly looks better than Thacher (sp? of UK) , Arafat, or
Barbra Bush.

>love to do more than just kiss him.  Maybe I can send him a
>lock of my hair for his birthday ...

What is a lock of your hair anisa?

>Did I make your day?

You sure did. He's so glad you confested your fabricated feelings as 
he wishes them to be.

>Are we happy over there in Copenhagen, insha'Allah?

I don't think so, its too damn icy and cold in Copy`gn in October.
Doesn't he wish to be in Sunny Los Angeles?  Ne na ne ne na. 
Icy and cold in October may apply to you anisa as well, am I right?

jle
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Alan Dershowitz on Bosnia
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:15:40 GMT
Reply-To: Hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron, Experiment ZEUS bei HERA

[Article in which Dershowitz tries to claim that equating the Holocaust with the
Serbian "ethnic cleansing" attrocities is somehow anti-Jewish deleted]

I think that Dershowitz is completely in opposition to the mainstream Jewish
community in the UK. There have been many letters in the British press incuding
one from the President of my Oxford College, Wolfson making precisely this
comparison.

Dershowitz is a lawyer whose concerns range from laudible charity cases to a
unique brand of high class ambulance chasing. He has a dangerous tendency to
equate opposition to his political views with anti semitism. Since his chief
antagonists seem to be Yigal Arens and Noam Chomsky (Chomsky vs Dershowitz is
the Cliche' middle east debate) this is a strange view indeed.

--

Phill Hallam-Baker
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: "SALEM" (Peace)!!! means "MURDER"!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:50:53 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <1992Sep24.184554.26585@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout) writes:
>
>     In article 51959, Mr. Ehrlich Says that the village name "SALEM" means
>(peace) and then contradicts himself by adding that it means (murder).  Pretty
>confusing!  Well Mr. Ehrlich, may be "SALEM" does mean (peace) or (murder) if
>it were in Russian, Japanese, Swahili, or ghmstru languag, I do not Know.  BUT
>NOT IN ARABIC.
>     "SALEM", and if that is an Arabic name, it would mean:
>something that is all right, safe and sound, free of abnormalities,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> well and O.K., or complete.   I do not see how "SALEM" would then
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> mean (peace)....
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> So Mr. Ehrlich, please learn Arabic before you start theorizing about
>Arabic vocabulary and hence embarrass yourself.  Or at least consult a
>dictionary; I know that there are numerous Arabic/Hebrew/English dictionaries.
>           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Wa al-SALAM
>----------------------
>Khaled Shammout

So pick one and check !

The long defenition you gave for    SALEM   is exactely the defenition
of the Hebrew word   SHALOM.    and that word is always translated to
PEACE.

Shalom      gideon Ehrlich