HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: utingli@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Tingli Pan)
Subject: Re: Tibet and Taxes
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 13:51:56 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.221827.29963@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> dh5m@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Donghai  Huangfu) writes:
>In article <715009644.21302@minster.york.ac.uk> yong@minster.york.ac.uk writes:
>>Information about Tibet
>>
>>Chinese observor, Yishan ZHANG (who attends a meeting of Human Right
>>Committee of the United Nations), spoke in Geneva about the situation in
>>Tibet on 21th August 1992. He said that  Tibetan population in Tibet is
>>2.19 millions, which is a double of Tibetan population in 1950,
>>according to 1990 Census of China. Among the whole population in Tibet,
>>Tibetans occupy 95.46% and Han Chinese occupy 3.7%. Since 1952, the
>>central government has invested near US$3 billions in Tibet and collects
>>no single penny of taxes out from Tibet.
>
>
>I heard a `rumor' many years ago that some money China returned to USSR was 
>from a special mine in Tibet. Can anybody prove it ? Even it is true I think 
>it is believable that central government invested much more than what
>it took.
>
>I remember that there are aroud 4 millions Tibetan live out of XiZang, but in
>Sichun, Qinghai ...., Do TIs want all of these regions?
>
You bet they would. That is the problem to China of TI. Assuming that
Tibet gets its independence, what would happen to these areas. Of cours
an independent Tibet would claim they belong to Tibet, then there would
be some campaign in those areas to go back to Tibet, while the local Han
people refuse to leave China.... or leave Ugoslavia? Anyway, I don't
think there is a bright future.

My suggestion is to divide Tibet to several small parts now. At least
they would fight with each other for a long long time.

Tingli Pan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: ping@bnlux1.bnl.gov (Shiping Zhang)
Subject: Re: The Chinese Dream for That Small Little Thing: A Vote.
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 00:03:35 GMT

In article <(~{5K6,F=~})DENG.92Aug27130945@math12.bnlux1.bnl.gov> deng@bnlux1.bnl.gov (~{5K6,F=~}) writes:
>>>>>> In article <1992Aug27.161626.5329@rigel.econ.uga.edu>
>>>>>> "jialin" == jialin  <jialin@dogwood.botany.uga.edu> writes:
>
>>Was that so bad to sacrifice onceself for a common good? The spirit of
>>sacrifice was not just from Communism, but also from Confucianism and 
>>Christianity. I do not know about Muslim.
>
>  jialin> Yes, you bet. If someone wants to sacrifice himself, fine, I respect
>  jialin> his choice; but don't ask others do the same. It's a personal choice,
>  jialin> not yours, mine or the one who tells us what's the "common good".
>
>What's wrong to ask others do the same? Even being asked, it's still your
>choice.

  Not if asked under gun point.  :-)

-ping
From: yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: What About Tibet? (Re: What about China done to Korea)
Date: 4 Sep 92 03:55:00 GMT
Organization: New York University

usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:

>You are showing your self-centered attitude again, Ze Yang. We are talking  
>about Han people's discrimination against Tibetans. This has nothing to do with
 
I guess I finished that topic in my post, my answer is that Han people
do not discriminate against people because of their thnic background and
religioys belief. 
 
>the US.  Yes, there are serious racial discrimination in the US. But, attacking
>the US for discrimination will not change the fact that there are  
>discrimination in China. Your point is like this:
>some people say "A hit B", then you say: "no, C hit D also" What is your logic?

I want to say that conflicts between different group of people is
unavoidable. Maybe our solutin on this issue is optimal enough. 
I want to say that your standard has not been reached by anybody, it's
impractical, we should not stick on it. 

>Again, you prefer blindly denying the fact you don't like. In you logic, any  
>Chinese girls who go out with blacks are probably prostitutes. Mr. Ze Yang, you
>are bravely showing you serious racial discrimination. I would point out that  
>people who attacked those African students are people like you. People like you 
I am not sure if they are prostitute, there are a lot of prostitude in
China in recent years, they accompany foreingers and get pay, you don't 
know that or you are too afraid to say it here?  I want to say that 
you are the one who blindly denying the fact. You always try to give a 
nice cover to those bad things. 

>will probably think Han girls who marry Tibetans as prostitutes too. Thank you 
>for supporting my point in this way.

That is your words, you are very rude to put this kind of words in my
mouth.

>Carl

Mr. Carl, Dao4 bu4 dong2, bu4 xiang1 wei2 mou2, I won't debate
with you anymore. 
 
Ze Yang
From: DengXPing@beijing.china.etc
Subject: Anonymous mail
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Date: 30 Aug 92 18:48:41 GMT

No, I'm not from UCI.

Th e point I want to make here is thtat the person at UIC who claims
that he can trace to anyone who sends anonymous mail is not correct.

Even you can trace to where the message originates from, it's still
uncertain to know who send it.

DXP
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: s9874194@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194)
Subject: Re: Protection bill
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 00:33:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.015949.3760@bnlux1.bnl.gov>, ping@bnlux1.bnl.gov (Shiping Zhang) writes...
>In article <26AUG199218513820@phobos.ucc.umass.edu> s9874194@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194) writes:
> 
>>>>[...]
>>> 
>>>Why do you need to be protected?
>>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
>>> 
>>Very very good question !! Why do you need to be protected? What are you?
>>Endangered speices? All of you who are looking for the "protection", if you
>>can not stand on your own feet without somebody else's "protection", you
>>doom to fail.
> 
>  Seems you were abandoned by your parents at your birth and survived
>  by yourself. :-)
> 
>  And seems Bush's going to fail the election with all those guards.
> 
>  And seems all the sodiers are just either to kill others or to
>  protect themselves.
> 
>  And seems ...
> 
>  
>  BTW, isn't because of CCP's protection that Chinese are able to stand up,
>  at last?
> 
>-ping
> 
I am confused! Chinese stood up because CCP's Protection? Anybody protected
CCP in the 1930's? 1940's? If CCP would rely on the protection from Stalin,
Chinese would never stand up. The only protection I could remember was
the failed Manchukuo which was under the protection of the Japanese.
From: yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Sources on Tibet
Date: 30 Aug 92 23:06:00 GMT
Organization: New York University

mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha) writes:

>	I especially welcome contributions from the following netters:

>	Yang Ze
>	Shi Chunde
>	Brian Lin

>	Thanks a lot. I'll be glad to forward a copy of the list to anyone
>who asks for it.

>Mark Libucha (mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu)

Hello, Mr. Libucha, I am so glad that you put my name at 
the first place (I guess that's because my stringent arguments win
your trust:-)), but I am a little busy now, I cann't give 
you much help on this matter. Why don't we play something easier 
for you, your e-mail address remainds me of one speech 
made by Abraham Lincoln(Abraham Lincoln is Ex president of USA-in case
you don't know this :-)), 
if you can give me satisfactary answers about this speech, I might
give you some advise on your project. 
First, there are two versions of the speech (appr.):
 "...At what point then shall we expect approch of danger? Shall
we expect some transatlantic millitary giant to step the
ocean and crush us at a blow? Never, all the armies of Europe,
Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the Earth in their
military chest
and a Bonarpart as a commander, could not by force take a drink
from the OHIO river or set a track on the Blue Ridge , in a
trial of a thouscand years. If destruction ever reach us, it must spring
up amongst us, we must be its author and finisher, as a 
country of free men, we must live through all time or die by suicide..."
another version:
 "..Whence shall we expect approch of danger? Shall we assume
some millitary giant to step the ocean and crush us at a blow?
Never, all the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, could
not by force take a drink from the OHIO river, or set a track
on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a thousand years, if destruction be
our lot, we must be its author and finisher, as a nation
of free men, we must live for ever, or die by suicide..."

(Please ignore misspelling, that is intentionally left for Mr. Carl, 
I am sure every time he find a misspelling or grammar error, he
is excited.:-) )

First question:
1) Which is the original version (by A.L.).
2) At what year Abraham Lincoln made the speech?
(Please don't post your answers before you have more that two
answers.)
If you cannot give me a satisfactory answer, I would say "
This guy is BULLSHIT, even don't know American History,
why bother to teach him our Chinese matter."
By the way, are you sure you are not related to CIT at all?
I am really concerned about this. (My taiwanese friends' 
club once visited by CIA, CIA offered help to them, I really
cannot afford this).
Ze Yang.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha)
Subject: Re: Cease fire! Save SCC!!
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 13:59:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.050146.21692@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> cqu@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Chang-ning Qu) writes:

>    Dear Mr. Libucha, Mr. Twaint(?), Mr. Dave Mclane and
>Mr. Carl or anyother Tibet-Independent supportters or 
>Japanese imperial army protecters, why don't you go to
>the UN to talk to them or the Chinese government representitives
>It's more effective if you could convince them. Or else post
>your beliefs to the newsgroup such Indepent.Tibet or 
>Japanese-no-guilty.ww2 if available ( maybe you could creat).
>Please leave SCC to be a nice place for Chinese or non_Chinese
>readers. Otherwise We will shout with "no" polite "get out here!"

(1) I (Mark Libucha) do *not* support Tibetan Independence. I have never
even mentioned the topic (nor have I ever mention Japan at all). Either
support this accusation with a direct quote from one of my earlier 
postings or refrain from misrepresenting me in the future.

(2) To some us, the survival of Tibetan culture is at stake. (You may not
agree, and I can respect that opinion.) Thus, my postings are relevant in
this *cultural* discussion group. And need I remind you that Tibet is a
part of China? So Tibetan culture falls under the umbrella of "culture.china".
This is not "soc.culture.han".

(3) In your call for a stop of the discussions of Tibet and Japan, why do
you only ask those who do not support "pro-China" views to quit? I suggest
that you need to create a new group called "soc.culture.praise.han".

(4) And who are you to speak for everybody on the net? Speak for yourself.
If you want to flame me, here or in my personal mailbox, go right ahead, but
don't act like you own the group. Because you don't.



Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: xi@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: Re: What About Tibet? (Re: What about China done to Korea)
Reply-To: xi@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 18:27:42 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.232056.18099@news.acns.nwu.edu>, usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:
>Yes, people are working hard to develop Qinghai and Tibet, but not only Han  
>people. Also, I don't think Hans develop the area to help the Tibetans. I guess  
>they do it for themselves. Just like the early settlers in the US who grabbed  
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Why can not they do for themselves? People do for themselves to get 
rich, and government does it for the country to get stronger. I do not 
see anything to do with the Tibeteans. Where are the Tibeteans? They are 
part of the people doing for themseves.

Which country in the world does things for other country's good? And 
which people live for other races? 

People live for themselves and government for its country. If you are so 
good and kind, will you give $1000 for my tuition fee?

>land from native Indians and then developed. Can you say that they did it for  
>Indians. Also, Germans and British also developed their controlled areas in  
>China to some degree in the past, do you think they did it for us Chinese? In  
>fact the living conditions in some controlled areas did improved. Were Chinese
>people satisfied?
>
>
>Carl
From: lix@thames.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: What About Tibet?
Date: 30 Aug 92 00:45:25 GMT
Organization: Boston University

In article <1992Aug29.172143.19086@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> utingli@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Tingli Pan) writes:
>(deleted)
>To Han people, Tibet is always looked like a remote, mysterious far far
>away land.
>
Not necessarily. Ask Han people living in Aba, GanZi, YaAn, Xichang.

-- 

This is only a trial.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: utingli@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Tingli Pan)
Subject: Re: What is love in Chinese sense.
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 02:38:13 GMT

In article <Btv93t.26r@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li) writes:
>
>I have had answers from people in other cultures. I thought it
>would be an interesting question to many Chinese. So my questions
>are the following:
>
>(1). When a Chinese man says he loves a woman, what does he really
>     mean?

He has read too much romantic novels. (Yeung Yang Hu Tie Pai)
>
>(2). When a Chinese woman says she loves a man, what does she mean?

He is a Gao Gang Zi Di.
>
>(3). When Chinese parents say they love their children, what do they
>     mean, what do they do?

A big tough job for the children to work out.
>
>(4). When Chinese parents expect love from their children, what do
>     they expect the most.

Sponser them to USA.
>
>(5). When a Chinese says he loves his country, what does he mean.

He is thinking joining CCP.
>
>(6). When the government says that it loves its people, what does
>     it mean and what does it expect.

Sacrifice. Yi Bu Pa Ku, Er Bu Pa Si. 
>
>(7). When a Chinese loves a non-Chinese (including Hongkonger and
>     Taiwanese), what is behind the love.
>
An airplane ticket.

>(8). Is Chinese allowed to love their enemies?
>
Why don't you try it first.

>Xiao Li


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: ping@bnlux1.bnl.gov (Shiping Zhang)
Subject: Re: Protection bill
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 02:11:57 GMT

In article <27AUG199209254080@phobos.ucc.umass.edu> s9874194@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194) writes:
>
>The protection bill is not just as simple as give you the choice. If somebody
>told your son that he did not have to stay with you, he could stay with him, 
>and the guy told you that your son was under his protection. What do you
>think?

  What do you think if your son did decide to stay with somebody else?

>       After all, we are not endangered spieces.

  Belong to the largest population, you can definitely win on this point. :-)

>                                                 We do have the ability to
>fight for our survival. We do have the right to fight for the better future
>of our country.

  Who takes away your right?

>                what the hell the protection bill can do

  Say, nothing.  So what are you so upset about?

>Daniel

-ping

Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:24509 soc.culture.hongkong:10369 soc.culture.taiwan:12737
From: lix@thames.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: I'm very disappointed in Chinese
Date: 2 Sep 92 00:27:17 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.china
Organization: Boston University

In article >1SEP199215153754@phobos.ucc.umass.edu> s9874194@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194) writes:
<(deleted)
>For a simple example, not too many people in the US would bother
>to steal toilet paper (sorry, if you do not like the word I use). The 
>reason? It is too cheap and everybody has the ability to get couple
>dozen. But if you supply toilet paper freely in the restrooms in China,
>what would happen? (deleted)

Answer: It depends. Before late 1950, there were "toilet papers" in
many public toilet, to your surprise :-)

Of course, those toilet paper was of very low quality -- you may not
even call it paper :-) In some rural area, it was a bunch of bamboo
pieces, or it might be a pile of dried soil clumps. But it worked,
probably not as well as real paper :-)

Well, in 60s', some public toilet (especially in institutions) offered
trashed paper. I remembered I read a technique suggestion letter in
such a toilet with curiosity, I am sorry to the author.

In 1976, I visited Eastern China Institute of Computers, in JiaDin.
That was th first time I saw real toilet paper offered in public
toilet.
-- 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: yl2@cec2.wustl.edu (Yu-fung Liu)
Subject: Re: What About Tibet? (Re: What about China done to Korea)
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 15:56:42 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.164240.18341@news.acns.nwu.edu> usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:
>Finally, if I am not wrong, I don't think Wang Zhao-Jun went to Tibet. She went  
>to north where probably is the People's Republic of Mongolia now. 

After all, we don't have a program so call "Voice of China" to lie to
people all over the world. Thanks to the L.A riot, it tell the truth.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: mtl@cs.brown.edu 
Subject: Re: What is love in Chinese sense.
Organization: Brown Computer Science Dept.
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:05:41 GMT

In article <liqiang.715296442@kramden>, liqiang@kramden.nyu.edu (Li) writes:
|> xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> >(7). When a Chinese loves a non-Chinese (including Hongkonger and
|> >     Taiwanese), what is behind the love.
|> 
|> Hongkongese and Taiwanese are Chinese.
|> 
|> 
|> Li, Qiang
|> 

When I went to Beijing last year, I had to pay 55 Foreign Exchange Cewrtificates to
see the forbidden city because I am from Taiwan. 
People there called me Tong-Bao(Fellow Countryman), but when they try to make money from
me, they treat me as a foreigner.
From: yong@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Chinese consumer spending
Date: 28 Aug 92 10:41:26 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

Chinese Consumer yearly spending (1991?)

cities in China		per person/per year		on food
Guangzhou 		2,109.60 Yuans (US$383.56) 	Y1,473.97 ($267.99)
Shanghai		Y1,956.20 ($355.67)
Beijing			Y1,646.05 ($299.28)
Chongqing		Y1,569.62 ($285.38)
Shengyang		Y1,481.67 ($269.39)
Tianjing		Y1,440.47 ($261.90)
Wuhan			Y1,417.48 ($257.72)
Xian			Y1,338.56 ($243.37)		< Y736.98 ($133.99)
Harbin			Y1,254.00 ($228.00)		< Y736.98 ($133.99)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
		on clothes
Harbin		Y275.64 ($50.11)
Shanghai	Y192.94 ($35.08)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
cities 		ratio of food/total	ratio of clothes/total
Guangzhou	69.8%
Xian		< 55.0%
Harbin		< 58.7%			21.9%
Shanghai				9.8%
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:24507 soc.culture.hongkong:10368 soc.culture.taiwan:12736
From: lix@thames.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: I'm very disappointed in Chinese
Date: 2 Sep 92 00:02:56 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.china
Organization: Boston University

In article <1SEP199214572560@phobos.ucc.umass.edu< s9874194@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194) writes:
>(deleted)
<We come from the ancient culture. We have been in this culture for years.
<By introducing Chinese culture and customs to our American friends, and
<by telling the people in our homeland the culture and customs here, 
<we can well be the window for the world to see China and China to see
<the world. I believe that would be a very important thing and yet a
<very easy thing to do for everybody.

Well, I assume the author young, so he takes thing too easy:-( We Chinese
have tried to learn from western cultures for 130 years, but I don't think
we have learned well.

It is important, I agree. But it is by no mean easy. So young people'd
better to concentrate to learn. Leave the job to be the window for the
world to see China to others (such as old guys like James:-)

The problem is, when you keep in mind that you are responsible to show
the world what you are, you will frequently forget to learn.
--
From: mraulsto@shakespeare.nd.edu (matt raulston)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Wish to teach English at university in Beijing
Date: 3 Sep 92 02:13:36 GMT
Reply-To: mraulsto@shakespeare.nd.edu
Organization: University of Notre Dame


Ni3 hao3 ma,
    My name is Matthew Raulston.  I recently graduated from the University of
Notre Dame with a bachelor's degree in Electrical Engineering and would like to
teach English for a year in China.  I have always been interested in foreign 
cultures, and I feel that China  is a fascinating country with a rich history.  
I have several Chinese friends here and have learned a little bit of Chinese 
from them, but would like to experience Chinese culture first hand and learn the
language well.  I have never received less than an A- in my English classes, so
I feel that my English background is adequate.
    I am hoping that someone out there can send me a list of universities in 
Beijing that I may contact regarding teaching opportunities, and the names of
the department at the universities that I should contact.  I greatly appreciate
any help that you may be able to provide.

Xie xie,
Matthew H. Raulston

mraulsto@trudeau.helios.nd.edu

(Note:  After Sunday September 6, 1992 I will be leaving the university, so 
if you send e-mail, please send it to:

	syu@davinci.helios.nd.edu

and my friend Shunjia Yu will forward the mail to me.) 


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Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: danjiong@cc.utah.edu
Subject: Need help to set up Chinese Editor
Organization: University of Utah Computer Center
Date: 1 Sep 92 22:20:45 MDT

Can anyone up there tell me how to set up a Chinese editor on my IBM-PC ?
Thanx......     Dan Li
From: dhsy@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: English Usage (Re: Winner, Bush or Clinton? )
Date: 25 Aug 92 18:04:43 EDT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Cornell University

In article <BtIAH4.9AG@acsu.buffalo.edu>,
xiaofei@acsu.buffalo.edu (XiaoFei Wang) writes: 
> :yucao@sampson.ccsf.caltech.edu (Yu Cao) writes:
> :
> :Ever heard of "Three people were killed in the accident"? 
> 
> Yes but use number before people does not make sense. 
> To follow your logic, if there were four people in the car
> and three people were killed, how many people survived? 

One.  One of the people in the car survived.  Same way, 
if three hundred houses (countable, isn't it?) were destroyed
in Andrew the Hurricane, and there are three and one houses in
the neighbourhood, then "one of the houses survived".  :-)

If two people were killed, then you say "two people survived
instead of one".  :-)  You see, you omit "people" if there is
only one.  :-)

dhsy@vax5.cit.cornell.edu