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Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 13:37:00 EDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         KMORGAN@WHEATNMA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: What's the Beef? ( Common Sense etc.)

Larry,
        I wish I could share in your kind judgement about my
chair, but alas, as you say, I was there (and I've been there
in other settings).  So I'm afraid to say that I think the guy
actually THINKS like this himself!
        By the way, never tell someone who is acting paranoid
and irrational that they ARE rational--unless it's true!!  :-)

--Kathy (a challenge survivor) Morgan
kmorgan@wheatnma.bitnet
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Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 15:32:00 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "Todd.Nelson" <22817MGR@MSU.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Common-Sense Knowledge In Ps

Matthew,

I KNOW it is a JOKE! I also KNOW my family (ie, aunts and uncles, etc....not
just immediate family). I have a great sense of humor, and don't 'blow up' as
you say. However, we digress. The main point that I've been trying to make
over the last few days (enlightening the unlightened Matthew Simpson) is: We
as psychologists have to be much more concerned with this pernicious
perception of psychology and psychologists that, much like a stereotype, can
lead to all kinds 0 misconceptions and misunderstanding about the SCIENCE of
psychology.

Capiche?

Todd D. Nelson
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Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 10:38:59 PST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Stephanie Fishkin <fishkin@SCF.USC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: authorship
              "ECO_GXC%SHSU.BITNET@VM.USC.EDU" at Dec 15, 92 5:04 pm

So, what is the answer to authorship to this scenario:
        Person A has an idea.  She creates an experiment to test an idea,
she runs the subjects, and does the data analyses.  Person B writes it up.
Who gets authorship?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Everyone feels instinctively that
 all the beautiful sentiments in the world
 weigh less than a single lovely action.
           --James Russell Lowell

Stephanie Fishkin, Univeristy of Southern California
fishkin@scf.usc.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:53:20 -0400
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         G9226406@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA
Subject:      Re: Bushisms & Quale Quotes

I must have deleted some of my messages... are these Bushisms and Quale
Quotes open to the public (i.e. are they easy to access)?
From the sounds of the discussion, they could be kinda interesting!
Merry Christmas!!
Tammy
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Date:         Sat, 19 Dec 1992 13:58:00 PST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         DON GALLOGLY <GALLOGLY@CWU.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: PSYCHOLOGY POLITICS RESISTANCE, a call to membership

>Psychology Politics Resistance is a network of people - both
>psychologists and non-psychologist - who are prepared to oppose
>the abusive uses of psychology. This means challenging the
>ideas within psychology that lead to oppresive practices,
>supporting those who are on the receiving end, and using
>psychology knowledge positively to help those engaged in
>struggles for social justice.

I'm not really sure what this group is going to do.  What kinds of abusive uses
are you talking about?  What oppresive practices?  I'm in favor of resisting
oppression, but I'd like to know some more specifics about this group.

Don Gallogly
GALLOGLY@CWU.bitnet
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Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 12:17:00 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "Todd.Nelson" <22817MGR@MSU.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Common-Sense Knowledge In Ps

Matthew,

sure, I'd be glad to give you an example of what I mean by 'misconceptions.'
If a student or some other layperson ---love that word----, like my family for
example....no matter how many times I tell them what I do as a SOCIAL
psychologist, they still ask when I'm gonna 'set up practice and shrink the
family.' (auuugh!) I would launch into a 5 minute lecture (very politely of
course) on the diversity of psychology, and that we don't all do therapy.

How's that?

Best to all,

Todd D. Nelson
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:09:00 EDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         KMORGAN@WHEATNMA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: History and Systems

I agree with David that knowing one's academic lineage can be
informative.  On my undergraduate side, I am the academic great-
grandchild of Karl von Frisch, one of the 3 ethologists ever to
win a Nobel Prize.  On my graduate side, I descend from a long
line of classical comparative psychologists, including Karl
Lashley.  This (my mixed blood, regarding animal behavior
training) has helped me to explain to myself the conflict I
often feel between evolutionary and more proximate types of
explanations.  (To those not trained in animal behaviour, an
academic parentage like mine would be equivelent, say, to
having Arthur Jensen and Robert Sternberg as academic parents.)
--Kathy Morgan
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Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:11:42 -0500
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         20SSMITH@GALLUA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Not scientific enough

Yep, Matthew its for real...I couldn't believe my ears but I wanted
the money so I just gritted my teeth...how's that for scruples and
ethics...I think the statement reflected the bias of the individual
and we can't leap to what it means for NIH as a whole...of course
they fund such research...I was applying for funds which had been
tagged for neurosciences and found myself wondering if that would
in fact be the attitude towards the proposal...particularly since
the primary thesis is related to a personality dynamic which I
suspect is neurologically based...additionally, I did not propose
using any "hard" measures such as an MRI or EEG...so I was pushing
it a bit in the view of some I suppose...but its a fait accomplit
now...lousy French...sorry, but you get the idea.

Sybil
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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 23:12:13 -0700
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "JOHN P. KLINE" <KLINE@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject:      Hi!

Hello!  My name is John Kline, and I am in the Clinical Psychology program
at the University of Arizona.  I am interested in psychophysiology, especially
electroencephalography and evoked potentials.  I am currently working with
Gary Schwartz, studying EEG and olfaction, and EEG and AEP correlates of
the repressive/defensive coping style.  My clinical interests center around
anxiety and depression mainly.
Cheers,
John Kline
P.S... Tucson is a great place!
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Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:07:17 -0400
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         G9226406@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA
Subject:      Re: authorship

This debate on authorship has been very interesting.  Yesterday I had a
chance to discuss the topic with the tech in my lab and my supervisor.
What basically came of it is that out of respect those individuals who do
work above and beyond what they are being paid to do should be given some
form of credit for their efforts.  Technicians often contribute much work
to a project while not really having any input into design and the like.  It
is the tech who applies their knowledge and intellect to a project that
deserves authorship.  This could also be the case with students.  Those
student who are employed in a research setting might be simply looking for
work (that they can call experience) or they might actually have an interest
and play an active roll in the whole of the experiment.  The point being made
through many words is that intellectual input by an individual beyond just
doing what he/she is told, should result in authorship.  The other points
being made about who should get first authorship is a little more tricky.
I remember someone saying that in some labs first authorship always goes to
the person in charge of the lab.  Although there is nothing stopping any
prof from demanding that they be first author, some form of respect should
also be issued to the person who has done the most work.  My supervisor has
in the past declined authorship on graduate student's publications when he
thought that their high quality independent work warranted it.

Merry Christmas !!!!
Tammy
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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 11:31:42 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Matthew Simpson <054340@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Subject:      How to fight a fire: a reminder

Please do not fight fire with fire.  Flames die down when they hit the
private lines.  The flames spread when they hit the list.

What is a flame?  The Mission Statement reads...

  5. Please do not flame (intentionally insult; publicly attack
  individuals through the content of your postings or e-mail)
  Try to provide rational behind your points when you disagree.
  "It's okay to disagree with someone or their ideas.  It is not
  okay to insult them." -Betty Harris

If someone chooses to flame you, that person is already frowned
upon by the majority.  So don't you worry.  People will not be thinking
anything bad about you (the target of the attack).  They will think
badly of the person who attacked you.  You need not save your face.

If someone flames you, or you see someone flame another person, send
the flamer a message stating your discontent.  If we all do this,
flamers will have their personal mailboxes flooded.  Simultaneously,
the flames would be publicly extinguished.

Public responses to flames increase list noise.  This letter fits into
that category, so I am sorry.  Let's close the damper on this topic
now.  Have fun!

O======================================================================O
 | _  l  _  * Matthew Simpson          * BITNET:                      |
 |  \_l_/   * School of Psychology     * 054340@uottawa.bitnet        |
 |    l     * 145 Jean Jacques Lussier * INTERNET:                    |
 |    l     * Ottawa, Ontario K1N 8P5  * 054340@acadvm1.uottawa.ca    |
O======================================================================O
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:10:00 CST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Betty Harris <B1H6017@TAMVENUS.BITNET>
Subject:      Senate's attempt to revoke grant funding

Matthew,
I'm reposting this for clarification of the
senate committee's objections... Betty

Senate conferees fought long and hard to retain
the listing of NSF grants they felt were "frivolous."
While Senate conferees lost the battle to keep the
grant titles in the bill, they did place the listing in
the conference report, and urged NSF to achieve the
targeted $2 million spending reduction by eliminating
these grants. The conference report suggested that
those specific grants are not a "prudent use of
taxpayer funds."
The conference report also directly criticizes the
process by which NSF makes its award decisions and
urges NSF to review its grant selection process and
report back to the conferees on how the Foundation can
modify its process to assure that only research that
"is focused on the fundamental laws and systems of
science, that supports the nation's technological base,
that supports the nation's economic competitiveness,
and that improves the nation's mathematical and science
education endeavors" be supported.  This directive
implies that basic research in the behavioral and
social sciences is not a priority and thus should not
be funded.

I'm goin to go look and see if any of those targeted
grants were in the area of psychology.  I know the two
sexual behavior studies which had funding rescinded were
run by social scientists, however those two were cancelled
because of conservative moral/religeous elements.
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:26:16 -0700
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         WAGNERL@CGSVAX.CLAREMONT.EDU
Subject:      Re: What's the Beef? ( Common Sense etc.)

Kathy,
        re my prev. note:

...conversation with *him/her*.

Sorry, my bias is showing.
Larry.
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Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 10:09:17 -0700
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "JOHN P. KLINE" <KLINE@ARIZVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Hi!

David,
Wow!  This network is something else!
Gary's work with repression began essentially with Weinberger, Schwartz, and
Davidson (1979).  He has published a couple of chapters that summarize nicely
the work that he began at Yale, and that we are continuing here at U of A.
One of the chapters is in "Repression and Dissociation", a 1990 book edited
by Jerome Singer (University of Chicago Press), and the other is a 1984
addition to the APA's master lecture series (Edited by Hammond Hammonds and Sche
   irer.

U of A is a great place to study.  Our department is full of bright,
energetic, creative, productive, and friendly individuals.

Hope to hear from you soon,
John Kline
KLINE@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
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Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 10:03:13 PST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Andres Consoli <6500EDU@UCSBUXA.BITNET>
Subject: Re: REQUEST FOR INFO: Dev. Grad Programs

Kathy's request,

The University of California, combined psychology program
has two outstanding researchers in the field of cross-cultural
psychology: Don Atkinson and J. Manuel Casas.  Also,
Dr. Nolan Zane has a shared appointment (our program and
Asian American studies).

If he/she wants more information, can call (805) 893-3375,
and talk with Mary McKonkey, AA.

Sorry, it is UC Santa Barbara that I am refering to.

Andres
6500edu@ucsbuxa.bitnet
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 12:43:46 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Matthew Simpson <054340@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Common-Sense Knowledge In Ps

On Fri, 11 Dec 1992 12:17:00 EST Todd.Nelson said:
>sure, I'd be glad to give you an example of what I mean by 'misconceptions.'
>If a student or some other layperson ---love that word----, like my family for
>example....no matter how many times I tell them what I do as a SOCIAL
>psychologist, they still ask when I'm gonna 'set up practice and shrink the
>family.' (auuugh!) I would launch into a 5 minute lecture (very politely of
>course) on the diversity of psychology, and that we don't all do therapy.
>How's that?
      ___   ___
     /   \ /   \
     >---   ---<
          /
         (_        Shrink the family? Ha Ha Ha!!!
     \\_______//   That's hilarious!  Ha Ha ha ha ha ha!  :-)
      \       /
       \_____/
          (
Todd!  That's a joke!  They are just joking with you.  They probably feed you
that question at every family reunion just to watch you politely explode
for the next 5 min.  They are just getting your goat. :-)

You see what insisting on "correcting unenlightened people" gets you?
All the world, even the family, looks unenlightened.  Plus, by immediately
compiling a 5-min lecture in an attempt to "correct" them, you end up
missing the joke.

I could be completely wrong.  But I suggest that whenever anyone uses the
term "shrink," the person is joking.  "Shrink" is the old joke about
the psychotherapist being a head shrinker, like a cannibal shrinks heads.
It's an allusion to the idea of the psychotherapist as being someone who
actually is out to twist or warp the mind.  I suggest that a good response
might be to say something about your fees and that they are too expensive.
Who knows?  Give it a try.  Whoop it up a bit.  Have fun.  See what happens.
After the joke sputters out, on a more serious note, you can talk about
what you really do.  After that, ask them if they've ever been to a real
shrink.  If not, ask them why not.  And have more fun with this joke.

O======================================================================O
 | _  l  _  * Matthew Simpson          * BITNET:                      |
 |  \_l_/   * School of Psychology     * 054340@uottawa.bitnet        |
 |    l     * 145 Jean Jacques Lussier * INTERNET:                    |
 |    l     * Ottawa, Ontario K1N 8P5  * 054340@acadvm1.uottawa.ca    |
O======================================================================O
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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 10:12:23 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Matthew Simpson <054340@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Sitting back as a strategy for attitude change.

On Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:01:00 CST Betty Harris said:
>Matthew,
>I'm afraid that I'm gonna hafta disagree with you too on the
>issue of just doing science until people see that what we do is
>a science.

You are not disagreeing with me, because I never advocated that we
*JUST* do that alone.

My argument was that if we want to do *MORE*, that is what we should
do more of.  Why?  Because as you explain...

> A group of well educated people COULDN'T change
>his beliefs OR his need to impose those beliefs on others using
>rational data based arguments.

You see, until you hang a nice juicy carrot in front of the nose,
an animal like that will not be able to see around the next bend in
the road.  Give him something that he needs, something that only your
science can provide, and he will listen.

>What if he was in a postiion
>of power and could implement sanctions to make us conform to
>his beliefs?  If....

We are already spreading the religion of psychology as fast as we can.
I just propose that if we go faster, or try to drive the point further,
we may appear to be dogmatic or fanatic.

>  Old Socrates may of had something way back when.
>*almost* makes me wanna study attitude change!*
>Scary thought.

You ain't kiddin.  One could drop everything and work at promoting
an entire set of beliefs in society, and spend all of one's time
doing so.  There are people who do this on a full-time basis.  They
call their science public relations.

O======================================================================O
 | _  l  _  * Matthew Simpson          * BITNET:                      |
 |  \_l_/   * School of Psychology     * 054340@uottawa.bitnet        |
 |    l     * 145 Jean Jacques Lussier * INTERNET:                    |
 |    l     * Ottawa, Ontario K1N 8P5  * 054340@acadvm1.uottawa.ca    |
O======================================================================O
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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:31:42 -0800
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Tor Neilands <tbn@UTXVM.CC.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Bushisms & Quale Quotes

>Oh, come on...Todd, Tor, and Gary - I think it is great that you can have
>fun with this stuff. I am thoroughly convinced that it takes real intelligence
>to have a sense of humor. Keep Playing. Merry Christmas, you guys!!!

Sunni: Thanks for the support...and, Merry Christmas and a happy and
prosperous new year to you and everyone else, too!

cheers,

Tor


Tor Neilands
Systems Analyst
Statistical Services Group
Computation Center
University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX  78712

Phone: (512)-471-3241, Ext. 263

Internet:  TBN@Utxvm.cc.utexas.edu
___________________________________________________

"To thy own self be true".             --- Walt Whitman

"No matter what you call it, it's all just a game".
                                                   --- Master Wong
                                 "Once upon a time in china"

"Two roads diverged in a yellow wood and I, I took
 the road less traveled by, and that has made all the
 difference".                                 --- Robert Frost
___________________________________________________

Disclaimer:  All of the views expressed above are solely
those of the author. Any relationship between my own
views and those of the University of Texas and/or The
Computation Center at the University of Texas are
due merely to regression to the mean.
____________________________________________________
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