HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: yazz@locus.com (Bob Yazz)
Subject: Re: Eating neurotransmitters (was Re: Seratonin Question)
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1992 04:08:31 GMT

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

| Note that observing that increasing dietary precursors might lead to
| higher levels of certain neurotransmitters in the brain says absolutely
| nothing at all about whether this is desirable or undesirable, or whether
| such a phenomenon means anything at all as far as being reflected in any
| behavioral correlates.
|
|        [ newline edited in ]
|
| I'm on the side feeling it's nonsense, myself.

Hi Steve --

I know you wouldn't be referring specifically to L-DOPA, since there's
really no controversy about its affecting Parkinson's.

But what about your publicly posted experience as a research subject
(years ago, before the contamination problem I'm sure) wherein you
were given tryptophan?  As I recall you said it made you feel somewhat
drowsy, but that as soon as you ate some protein that feeling went
away.

Could you comment?

BW

== Bob Yazz ==
-- 


"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, and that
one word is 'to be prepared.'" -America's own Danny "Mr. Potatoe Head" Quayl
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
Subject: Re: Eating neurotransmitters (was Re: Seratonin Question)
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 02:23:14 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <ringo.718328235@craft.camp.clarkson.edu> ringo@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Ringo) writes:
>>>Well, too much of it over time causes enlargement of the ventricles
>>>of the brain, and more or less causes schizophrenia. Yes, it's in 
>>>the literature, and it's the primary reason that l-dopa isn't often
>>>used anymore.
>
>>If this is the state of schools of psychology, I hope you never get near
>>a patient.  l-DOPA is still a hallmark of therapy for Parkinsonism.
>>"Isn't often used anymore."  God.
>
>Nice tone of voice. I bet you'll be wonderful when you have children.

If my kids start speaking authoritatively about the uses of l-DOPA,
you can be sure they'll know what they're talking about.

>Permit me to correct myself. It's not Preferentially used to treat
>Parkinson's, Dystonia, or any other dopamine-deficiency related diseases
>because of it.

You're wrong.  It's not very frequently a first-line drug; drugs like
anticholinergics, selegiline or amantadine tend to be used first because
they often work as well at that point without l-DOPA's side effects, but a
patient's treatment is always individualized.  It's still quite frequently
used, especially as the disease progresses.  Some of its side-effects
are ameliorated by its co-administration with a peripheral decarboxylase
inhibitor; it's hardly ever given without one anymore.  It is misleading
to minimize its utility in treating the disease, as you did.  It is still
a cornerstone of treatment of Parkinson's Disease.

>I don't care whether you believe me or not, but perhaps
>a more mature way of discussing the topic is not to condemn all psychologists
>but rather point out a mistake. 

If you made a mistake, why did you repeat yourself?

>You sound like someone who is generally disgusted with others, due to your
>wonderful image of yourself. If you don't have anything useful to say, go
>berate someone who might benefit from it.

When someone makes an authoritative statement which is incorrect,
I correct them.  That's a lot more useful that letting misinformation
be disseminated.

>In other words, go chew, you clone.

Get it right, you won't get chewed out.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: ringo@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Ringo)
Subject: Re: Eating neurotransmitters (was Re: Seratonin Question)
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 23:37:15 GMT

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>>Well, too much of it over time causes enlargement of the ventricles
>>of the brain, and more or less causes schizophrenia. Yes, it's in 
>>the literature, and it's the primary reason that l-dopa isn't often
>>used anymore.

>If this is the state of schools of psychology, I hope you never get near
>a patient.  l-DOPA is still a hallmark of therapy for Parkinsonism.
>"Isn't often used anymore."  God.

Nice tone of voice. I bet you'll be wonderful when you have children.
Permit me to correct myself. It's not Preferentially used to treat
Parkinson's, Dystonia, or any other dopamine-deficiency related diseases
because of it. I don't care whether you believe me or not, but perhaps
a more mature way of discussing the topic is not to condemn all psychologists
but rather point out a mistake. 
You sound like someone who is generally disgusted with others, due to your
wonderful image of yourself. If you don't have anything useful to say, go
berate someone who might benefit from it.
In other words, go chew, you clone.
--jr
d o p
cu
n ny

Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: ebrandt@jarthur.claremont.edu (Eli Brandt)
Subject: Re: Eating neurotransmitters (was Re: Seratonin Question)
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 02:01:57 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.005913.1861@techbook.com> szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) writes:
>There is evidence that, for example, choline increases performance on
>intelligence tests (see ref in my previous article).  It is expected

As well as evidence that it doesn't... what it looks like to me, as
someone who is not very familiar with the literature, is that choline
appears to have statistically significant effects in some fraction of
the test population ("some fraction" sounds like a bogus-science flag,
but could be blamed on the vagaries of individual biochemistry), but
that the *clinical* significance of these effects are dubious.

The point of taking neurotransmitter precursors such as choline seems
rather obscure in any case.  Who needs "all-natural" neurotransmitter
activity?  There are other cholinergics with better evidence of
effectiveness -- in rats, anyway.

   Eli   ebrandt@jarthur.claremont.edu



Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Eating neurotransmitters (was Re: Seratonin Question)
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:59:15 GMT

In article <ringo.718297887@craft.camp.clarkson.edu> ringo@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Ringo) writes:
>Well, too much of it over time causes enlargement of the ventricles
>of the brain, and more or less causes schizophrenia. Yes, it's in 
>the literature, and it's the primary reason that l-dopa isn't often
>used anymore.

If this is the state of schools of psychology, I hope you never get near
a patient.  l-DOPA is still a hallmark of therapy for Parkinsonism.
"Isn't often used anymore."  God.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: mesm@netcom.com (Mary E. S. Morris)
Subject: Re: Eating neurotransmitters (was Re: Seratonin Question)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 04:33:40 GMT

cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black) writes:
: In article <1992Sep28.034155.7914@reed.edu> mojo@reed.edu (the Doubtful Guest) writes:
: >
: >How precisely is that meant?  Is it generally impossible to raise brain
: >levels of neurotransmitters by putting the neurotransmitters anywhere on
: >the wrong side of the blood-brain barrier, or are they just messed up by
: >the digestive system?
: 
:     Usually the former; the extent of digestive hydrolysis or other
: degradation depends on the specific neurotransmitter.
: 
What about the situations where the NT's don't get destroyed during
the digestive process? 

I would think that if you raised the level of something in the 
blood that was capable of passsing the blood-brain barrier, it 
would have a higher level in the brain. As someone pointed out
L-Dopa has that ability. I can attest to the fact that the 
tryptophan that I took did have an effect.

And how can we prove or disprove that if the level of an NT in
the brain is higher it will affect the brain. I would think that 
if there were free receptors, since there was more of the NT available,
more of it would bind to the receptors. If this isn't the case, why not?
--
Mary E. S. Morris    |  The future exists first in imagination, then
mesm@netcom.COM      |  in will, then in reality. -- Galivan Burwell
=====================================================================
Netcom - Online Communication Services San Jose, CA
From: "eliot gelwan" <eliot.gelwan@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
Subject: pamelor part five
Date: 1 Oct 92 03:53:54 EST
Reply-To: "eliot gelwan" <eliot.gelwan@channel1.com>
Distribution: alt
Organization: Channel 1 Communications


As noted above, there is sometimes a withdrawal syndrome when
tricyclic use is a bated abruptly.  This consists mainly of headache,
general malaise, and GI distr ess and can last several days.  Over the
weeks following discontinuation of an a ntidepressant, a patient may
experience REM rebound, in which the frequency and intensity of his or
her dreams is increased.

...eliot  [Eliot Gelwan M.D.]                            |
Internet: eliot.gelwan@channel1.com [home]              -*-
          eg%psych%umass@banyan.ummed.edu [office]       |
Postlink: ->CHANNEL1 [R/O okay]

---
EZ 1.39 #178 [in Brookline MA  7:57 pm, Wednesday 09/30/92]
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA
From: Gregory.R.George@dartmouth.edu (Gregory R. George)
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
Subject: Nootropics FAQ?
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:38:07 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

Could someone please post (or E-mail) the nootropic FAQ?  I'm having
problems with the u.washington ftp--

thanks

greg
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Subject:  Ad For Mailorder Nootropics
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 22:00:23 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

In today's mail, I received an unsolicited advertisement for nootropic
drugs from a foreign drug company. What follows is a summary of the drugs
they sell and the claims they make.

Should I order some of each, so I'll get a synergistic effect by taking them
all at once? If not, maybe I should just complain to the F.D.A. about
getting an unsolicited ad in the mail.

What do you nootropic experts think I should do? Most of these drugs
I've never even heard of.


                        Acetyl-L-Carnitine (Branigen)
prevents brain aging


                             Adrfinil (Olnifon)
improves alertness


                           Arcalion (Sulbutiamine)
fat-soluble thiamine derivative to increase alertness, memory, and
reduces fatigue


                                  Biostim
stimulates immune system; synergistic effect with antibiotics


                          Centrophenoxine (Lucidril)
treats senility, strokes; anti-aging effect


                            Cyprodenate (Actebral)
reinforces normal brain function


                                  Deprenyl
taken with l-phenylalanine acts as antidepressant


                             Fenozolone (Ordinator)
relieves fatigue; improves memory


                                  Hydergine
improves intellectual abilities


                               Idebenone (Avan)
brain metabolism enhancer; treats memory impairment


                                KH3 (Procaine)
no claims


                               L-Dopa (Sinemet)
no claims


                               Minaprine (Cantor)
antidepressant/stimulant; removes inhibitions; improves memory


                             Oxiracetam (Neuractiv)
improves memory and learning ability at 1600mg/day

                            Parlodel (Bromocriptine)
"powerful" don't exceed 2.5mg/day


                          Phenytoin (Dlilantin, Di-Hydan)
no claim


                                   Piracetam
combats memory loss


                              Ribavirin (Virazole)
treats viral diseases

                             Roxithromycin (Claramid)
semi-synthetic antibiotic; treats respiratory infections, ear-nose-
throat infections, genital infections, skin infections
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
Subject: a question on LSD
From: Brian Frumolt <bf23+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:55:41 -0400 
Organization: Masters student, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Can anyone explain the physical and psychological effect of LSD to me? 
It seems, on the surface, to have little long-term physical effects.  Is
this true?    

Please respond to me personally, as well as posting -- I don't get here  often.

Brian

Xref: sparky alt.psychoactives:1240 alt.drugs:16397
From: williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums)
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives,alt.drugs
Subject: Meth - Kalh??
Date: 28 Sep 92 23:20:21 GMT
Reply-To: williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (Dances with Drums)
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: athena

I was listening to the radio and some folks in a Pittsburg lab were
trying to synthesize some legal herbal substance, something like kahl
or kalh.  

What is it?

Anyway, the interesting thing was that some 'meth' version got
synthesized and apparently the high lasts for days ??  Anyone
heard anything on this?  Apparently it is more powerful than either
crack or the meth-speed that has been out.  The radio person (Dr.
Dean Edell was commenting on how more and more 'dealers' are going
to local production of their drugs and not importing since it is
cheaper and far less easy to get caught.

Radios are good, but you can't go back and reread things in depth :-(.

-wat-
--
"If your annual income today is $50,000, you have the same buying power as
the average coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John
Sestina, nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner;  quoted in 1987.
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: mojo@reed.edu (the Doubtful Guest)
Subject: Eating neurotransmitters (was Re: Seratonin Question)
Organization: the Lotus Room
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 03:41:55 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.193714.32615@ux1.cts.eiu.edu> cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black) writes:
>drugs work.  In any case, eating neurotransmitters does not increase brain
>levels of these chemicals for several reasons.

How precisely is that meant?  Is it generally impossible to raise brain
levels of neurotransmitters by putting the neurotransmitters anywhere on
the wrong side of the blood-brain barrier, or are they just messed up by
the digestive system?

And what about eating constituents of neurotransmitters?  (I'm thinking of
choline compounds here...still looking for more acetylcholine...)

Thanks.

	NT
-- 
!@*#&^@#&*^@(!$%(*@&!$^%&*)@!#)!@$#^_!@*)%!@($&^%#@*)$&^#!@&*)$^&*#^$)*&^$*)!*
@ "I kilt the john!"  -Fritz the Cat   Nathan Tenny  mojo@reed.edu or        &
% "You should avoid yourself." -/usr/games/insult   tenny@euclid.uoregon.edu \
^@(#&*@_[]@)#(&*@}@)#&&*(#!)_~~@(!#*&}+@#+&#@(()                             [
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: yazz@locus.com (Bob Yazz)
Subject: Re: Eating neurotransmitters (was Re: Seratonin Question)
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1992 03:58:43 GMT

mesm@netcom.com (Mary E. S. Morris) writes:

| I would think that if you raised the level of something in the 
| blood that was capable of passsing the blood-brain barrier, it 
| would have a higher level in the brain. As someone pointed out
| L-Dopa has that ability. I can attest to the fact that the 
| tryptophan that I took did have an effect.

Neither L-DOPA nor tryptophan are neurotransmitters; they are used
by the brain to Manufacture neurotransmitters.  Both of them cross
into the brain (there are specific transport mechanisms for the
amino acids).  But the transmitters that they are made into (sero-
tonin and dopamine) do not.

== Bob Yazz ==

-- 


"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, and that
one word is 'to be prepared.'" -America's own Danny "Mr. Potatoe Head" Quayl
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black)
Subject: Re: Eating neurotransmitters (was Re: Seratonin Question)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:09:20 GMT
Organization: Eastern Illinois University

In article <1992Sep28.034155.7914@reed.edu> mojo@reed.edu (the Doubtful Guest) writes:
>
>How precisely is that meant?  Is it generally impossible to raise brain
>levels of neurotransmitters by putting the neurotransmitters anywhere on
>the wrong side of the blood-brain barrier, or are they just messed up by
>the digestive system?

    Usually the former; the extent of digestive hydrolysis or other
degradation depends on the specific neurotransmitter.

>And what about eating constituents of neurotransmitters?  (I'm thinking of
>choline compounds here...still looking for more acetylcholine...)

    There is no clinical evidence of which I'm aware that eating NT
constituents increases NT concentration in the brain.  The claim that it
does is touted by a large group of folks dedicated to finding "smart
drugs".  The actual concentration of NTs in the brain is so small that
precursors are easily available from the diet. 

>
>Thanks.
>
>	NT
>-- 
>!@*#&^@#&*^@(!$%(*@&!$^%&*)@!#)!@$#^_!@*)%!@($&^%#@*)$&^#!@&*)$^&*#^$)*&^$*)!*
>@ "I kilt the john!"  -Fritz the Cat   Nathan Tenny  mojo@reed.edu or        &
>% "You should avoid yourself." -/usr/games/insult   tenny@euclid.uoregon.edu \
>^@(#&*@_[]@)#(&*@}@)#&&*(#!)_~~@(!#*&}+@#+&#@(()                             [


-- 
   ******************************************************************
     Howard Black                             cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu
     Department of Chemistry                  Eastern Illinois Univ. 
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: aankrom@nyx.cs.du.edu (Anthony Ankrom)
Subject: Re: Eating neurotransmitters (was Re: Seratonin Question)
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 17:39:28 GMT


 Doesn't l-Dopa also have some anticholinergic effects?

St. Anthony

--
        CH3  O            CH(CH3)2        |      dadaMatrix
           >-P-S-CH2CH2-N<            VX  |                       
    CH3CH2O               CH(CH3)2        |     aankrom@nyx.cs.du.edu
                                          | A kinder gentler lobotomy...
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: mesm@netcom.com (Mary E. S. Morris)
Subject: Re: GABAergics as hallucinogens
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 04:15:49 GMT

q92269@pbhrzx.uni-paderborn.de (Daniel 'danny' Roedding) writes:
: mesm@netcom.com (Mary E. S. Morris) writes:
: >I tried taking GABA itself. Very mild - slightly mellowing. You need
: >to take it a couple of times for it to have much of an effect.
: >Unfortunatly, I got it as part of a test program and can
: >t get it any more....
: 
: Could you tell a bit more about it? (Dosage, side effects, ...)

Dosage was 250-500mg (I think.) The only side-effect that I noticed
was occasional cotton-mouth.
--
Mary E. S. Morris    |  The future exists first in imagination, then
mesm@netcom.COM      |  in will, then in reality. -- Galivan Burwell
=====================================================================
Netcom - Online Communication Services San Jose, CA
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: c9221777@cc.newcastle.edu.au (Brother Redeye)
Subject: Seratonin Question (using this group as asked : -))
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 04:04:19 GMT

While I already know through bitter experience that antidepressants that affect
the neurotransmitter seratonin (such as Anafronil) should not be mixed with
alcohol, what I would like to know is the effect of its combition with other
drugs.

Of particular interest is the effect on someone on a regular course of this
drug taking something like "ecstacy" - a designer drug that affects the levels
of seratonin in the brain to create a euphoric effect.  Would then effect on
the user be increased?  Would they have the seratonin levels in their brain
permanently affected?

-- 


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All opinions expressed herein are my own and do not reflect those of the
University of Newcastle ... but then again, as I have to pay to use these
facilities anyway, who really cares?!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Send all hate mail to: c9221777@cc.newcastle.edu.au
                   or: c9221777@wombat.newcastle.edu.au
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From: dgd@csd.bu.edu (David Durand)
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
Subject: Re: Eating neurotransmitters (was Re: Seratonin Question)
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:15:59 GMT
	<1992Sep28.034155.7914@reed.edu>
	<1992Sep28.160920.14528@ux1.cts.eiu.edu>
Organization: Roberstool Research Labs
In-reply-to: cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu's message of 28 Sep 92 16:09:20 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.160920.14528@ux1.cts.eiu.edu> cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black) writes:

   In article <1992Sep28.034155.7914@reed.edu> mojo@reed.edu (the Doubtful Guest) writes:
[stuff deleted]
   >And what about eating constituents of neurotransmitters?  (I'm thinking of
   >choline compounds here...still looking for more acetylcholine...)

       There is no clinical evidence of which I'm aware that eating NT
   constituents increases NT concentration in the brain.  The claim that it
   does is touted by a large group of folks dedicated to finding "smart
   drugs".  The actual concentration of NTs in the brain is so small that
   precursors are easily available from the diet. 

   >	NT

-- 
      ******************************************************************
	Howard Black                             cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu
	Department of Chemistry                  Eastern Illinois Univ. 

    This is strictly untrue, as L-dopa (a direct precursor to
Dopamine) is commonly used (as a drug) to reduce symptoms of
Parkinson's disease. The large dose of the metabolic precursor raises
the levels high enough to make L-Dopa a relatively potent drug. I'm
not aware of the effects of ACh precursors on brain metabolism, but
it's not inherently _implausible_. While the implicit claims of people
like the Pearson's are fairly suspect, there is often a background of
real research. For instance, let's say that you can raise ACh levels
in this way. Why is that necessarily good? Of course sometimes they
use bad studies too...

     -- David
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: ringo@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Ringo)
Subject: Re: Sensory Deprivation
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:01:26 GMT

bahn@main.mndly.umn.edu (Christopher Bahn) writes:

>I don't know if this is the proper board forthis, but I'm a reporter for the 
>college newspaper here, and I want to do a story on sensory deprivation 
>tanks. If anyone knows of a place where i could go in Minneapolis to find 
>one of these, please e-mail me. Thanks.

Before you do this study, you ought to know one little thing.....
Sensory Deprivation does NOT ...I repeat NOT cause hallucination.
(I'm assuming this is why you posted to this net....)
In the appropriate studies you will find that those who hallucinated
were TOLD THEY WOULD HALLUCINATE. Those to whom no mention of hallucination
was made did not.
Nyeah! :)
--John Rescigno
Clarkson University
Nowhere, NY

Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives