HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: conley@hawk.cs.ukans.edu (Dennis R. Conley)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gun Safe
Date: 21 Aug 92 23:09:55 GMT
Organization: University of Kansas Computer Science Dept

In article <51870019@hpscit.sc.hp.com> glaird@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Gordon Laird) writes:
#
# kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin) asks:
#
## I'm going to purchase a gun safe. I'll appreciate it if anyone can
## answer my questions.
## 
## (1) A local gun store told me that a Browning safe is the only way
##     to go and all other brands are not worthwile to get. Is that
##     true? If not, what other brands should I consider?

I would not consider the Browning because it has external hinges. As someone
once pointed out, that doesn't mean that it's any more likely that a crook
will succeed in breaking in. However if the crook bangs on those hinges long
and hard enough with a slegehammer ( before giving up ), the hinges can be
damaged such that the owner may find it impossible to open the door.

#     From my research I have a sneaky suspicion that all safes are really
#made by one or two manufacturers in Utah, and everyone gets them from them.
#I.E. Browning, Fort Knox, etc just have their logo's affixed to a particular
#safe at the factory.

I think that there are four factories.

#     A locksmith friend of mine, told me the real delimiter in safe
#effectiveness is the lock.  My 'Liberty' safe has an S&G class II lock.  My
#friend says class III is best, but mine is good enough for its purpose.

Not necessarily. Your professional thief, with detailed knowledge of certain
safe's mechanisms, can drill near the door frame, and push one of the
locking bars knowing that all locking bars will retract. Or, on some they
can drill near the lock and insert some gadget to manipulate the locking
mechanism. The various manufacturers tout various features designed to
thwart such attacks.

Then again, I heard a story from a company near Detroit that makes safes
specifically for jewelers, with 1/2" steel outside walls, 6" of concrete
and 1/4" steel inside walls. Seems one of their safes was opened by
professional theives in a jewelery store in 30 minutes with a gadget called
a "burn bar".

As another poster mentioned, you'll never stop the pros, just the small
time thief with a crowbar.

##(2) He wants to charge me: the whole sale price + $50 profit + tax + shipping.
##    Is that a good deal? ( Shipping is about $60 in this case. )

If at all possible, try to buy direct from the factory. You should be able to
get lots of glossy brochures from the distributers.

Good luck.

-- 
|Dennis R. Conley, Computer Science Dept., University of Kansas (913)864-7372 |
|conley@hawk.cs.ukans.edu			     conley@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu|
From: mbh@sdphu1.ucsd.edu (Matt Harrington)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Need opinions:  Ruger GP100 .357 versus other .357s
Date: 21 Aug 92 12:59:29 GMT
Organization: Physics Department, UCSD

I've decided on a gun:  the Ruger GP100 with 4 inch barrel, adjustable
sights, in stainless steel.  The other gun that I was looking at was
the 686 S&W.  The Ruger fit my hand better with the factory grips, and
supposedly the Ruger is easier to disassemble.

So, is there something about this gun (the Ruger) that I should know and
the salesmen don't tell me?  Otherwise I'm going to get it.  What other
models would rec.guns readers recommend?  I'm talking about .357s.
Thanks in advance for the help.  

					Regards,

					Matt Harrington

PS.  I'd like to say "Thank you" to all of the helpful readers who have
offered me advice over the last week.  I've certainly learned a lot.


PPS.  If you were planning to tell me about the Ruger boycott -- I
already know.  

[MODERATOR:  Uhhhh.... disassemble?}
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AR-15 in 7.62X39
Date: 19 Aug 92 12:38:49 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <1992Aug15.032457.25160@athena.mit.edu> sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Rifleman) writes:
}In article <920814144005.20408a2c@FRED.ALHRG.WPAFB.AF.MIL> SYSTEMM@FRED.ALHRG.WPAFB.AF.MIL (System Manager Wuest) writes:
}##Has anyone out there heard about the new Colt AR15 rifles in 7.62 by 39 cal.
}##This sounds like a good idea from the folks at Colt.  You know!!
}##Cutting in on the SKS market.  Well I'm sure it cost alot more.
}#
}#  What's a matter with a Ruger Mini-30?  ...
}
}#  It doesn't even have that nasty "assualt rifle" look. 
}
}Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  

<Enter matchmaker mode>

Have I got a gun for you! (-:

Saw this a week ago at B&B Sales:  A Gilbert USAS.  It's a magazine/drum
fed semi-auto 12 gauge shotgun.  I suspect it's a civilian legal version
of a military full-auto (Atchison?  A full-auto 12 ga?  The mind boggles).
It looks like an M16 on steroids (and weighs more than I'd like to carry
any great distance).  Any sane attacker would turn tail at the sight of
it.

<exit matchmaker mode>

They want $1600 for it -- a bit over my toy budget at the moment.  I
couldn't find out much more about it, other than it prefers Winchester
ammunition (something about their shells being crimped tighter than most).

Of course, the first judge that sees one is going to declare them banned.
Oh well.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Rifleman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AR-15 in 7.62X39
Date: 15 Aug 92 17:00:43 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <920814144005.20408a2c@FRED.ALHRG.WPAFB.AF.MIL> SYSTEMM@FRED.ALHRG.WPAFB.AF.MIL (System Manager Wuest) writes:
##Has anyone out there heard about the new Colt AR15 rifles in 7.62 by 39 cal.
##This sounds like a good idea from the folks at Colt.  You know!!
##Cutting in on the SKS market.  Well I'm sure it cost alot more.
#
#  What's a matter with a Ruger Mini-30?  (P.S.  I bought mine years ago
#  before Ruger's assinine statements about gun control.  Gimme a break).  

#  It doesn't even have that nasty "assualt rifle" look. 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: In Quest of Quiet ... what makes a quiet gun?
Date: 22 Aug 92 14:55:11 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc.

I'm hoping to find out what makes for a quiet 'report' from a gun.

I have a desire for quiet shooting due to having some hearing loss
already and not wanting to have more...  Right now I use ear plugs
AND earmuffs, but still find things like .308 NATO from a TC 14" bbl
to be enough to set my delicate ears to ringing ;-)

So what's a fellow to look for in quiet guns?  (I can hear thousands
of keyboards typing out '22 LR Bolt Rifle' ... please stop!  I already
have several .22 LR guns and want something with a bit more OOMPH
but without so much BANG!)

What is the magic formula?  Is it just 'keep a closed breech and 
use subsonic loads' or 'large bore, low velocity' or 'small bore,
low velocity' or 'n, where n is large, case volumes of expansion
space in the barrel' or what?

How do I get more bang with less BANG! ??

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
From: doi@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Daniel Kuan Li Oi)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bolo ammunition
Date: 19 Aug 92 12:38:56 GMT
Organization: University of Western Australia

jessie@iastate.edu (Brent Danielson) writes:

#In article <0C2B4801B4BF200ADE@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU>, PATE@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU (BILL PATE,
#ADMIN. SERVICES, PATE@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU) writes:
## #>>>>>>> They had other strange things like two halves of a slug that were
## #connected by a segment of piano wire.  Theoretically they would make a bolo
## #while in flight (actually these were used to be used in the days of wooden
## #ships and cannons, made a mess of the other guys rigging).
## 
## This reminds of a cannon innovation which came about during the War for
## Southern Independence (a.k.a. Civil War). The cannon was double-barreled.
## The cannon balls were connected with a length of chain. The purpose was to
## mow down rows of approaching troops. In actual practice the minor differences
## in firing times resulted in hooks and slices all over the place. That was far
## better, however, than a misfire in one of the barrels: that took out the gun
## crew. Before you ask, I don't remember which side invented it.


#The cannon was invented by the South.  I believe only one was made.  It never
#worked very well since the timing of the ignition in both barrels must be
#exactly the same to avoid whipping one ball around the end of the gun and
#decapitating the operators.

#The gun now rests on the lawn of City Building in downtown Athens, GA.

#BJD
	I believe that there was ammunition produced during the civil
war which consisted of wire connecting two cannon balls with the same
propulsion charge out of it.  I am not sure how effective it was but the
intention was the same as the other cannon. 

					Daniel Oi
					University of Western Australia
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 10mm in M1 carb?
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:06:57 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <9208191632.AA10682@dog.ee.lbl.gov> bercov@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (John Bercovitz) writes:
#                               .....  If you're enamored of a 10 mm 
#in a carbine, the Marlin camp carbine seems like a natural for such
#a conversion.

The Marlin Camp Carbine is a straight blowback action, and likely has
some trouble with the recoil of the .45.  I've got one in 9mm and its
bolt is the heaviest monster I've even seen (as a result of the
straight blowback action).

I'm not sure that you want an action like this with a 10mm in front of
it.  I'd look for a gas operated system as a starter.

-- 
.signature: not found.  Create?
From: bert@coos.dartmouth.edu (Norbert E. Yankielun)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Long-term loading of pistol magazines and spring fatigue
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:02:08 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

Can pistol magizines like those for Colt Govt. Models or high-capacity
9mm pistol magazines be kept fully loaded for extended periods of time
without causing the magazine spring to fatigue and cause feeding 
reliability problems?

Does loading the magazines intended for long-term (months?) storage
or holstering eliminate or lessen the feeding reliability problems?
From: smrtstr!syspb@uu.psi.com (Paul)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Hunting joke (may be offensive)
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:31:49 GMT
Organization: SmartStar Corp. / Signal Technolgy Inc.

Warning: This joke may be offensive...

	[joke deleted]

[MODERATOR:  Well, it really was pretty amuzing, at least to your
humble moderator.  But posting jokes here are a new one on me, unless
you SIG fans consider Glock posts to be ... errr ... well, I don't 
have a clue about whether to open this up here.  So my solution now
is to post it over in rec.hunting (you'll see why when you read the
joke), and let someone *else* try out jokes in these forums ... :-)
My inclination is to keep it technical here, but I'll be happy to 
take out-of-band communication for guidance in the future.]


[MODERATOR:  Oh ... while I have you.....   I'm updating the charter
to point out our preference not to have huge GIF (or other binary)
files posted here.  Once or twice in the past I have posted these
through, and was rewarded with a world of hurt from all sorts of sysops
out there who don't have either their news systems or gateways set up
for mondo posts in r.g.  Rather than make it more difficult to keep
us around in the future, my preference is to post them in the other
forums for pix on the net, then leave a short pointer here.  I am
reminded of this since one of our regulars posted quite a number of
big files in the last day or so, and I felt badly about asking him
to rephrase.....  thanks much.
From: lairdb@crash.cts.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Travelling help
Date: 21 Aug 92 03:36:03 GMT

In <1992Aug20.005348.10276@megatek.uucp> megatek!cjp@uunet.UU.NET (Chris "Systems Stud" Pikus) writes:
#Laird wrote:
## Incidentally, this has come up before.  I got curious, and talked 
## (informally) to several people about it, all of whom "had never heard
## such a ridiculous interpretation" (roughly the words of a local ADA.)
## He pointed out what I had thought, that the wording of the PC section
## in question is most sensibly read to say that if the magazine is out
## of the firearm, then it's not loaded.
## 
## Not to say that a rabid, conviction-hungry prosecutor couldn't read it
## any way he wanted to, but does anyone have a cite?

#	Here it is in black and white [or green and black for you crt guys].
#   California Penal code:

#   Section 12031(g):
#     (g)  A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes
#          of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or
#          shell, consisting of a case which holds a charge of power
#          and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to,
#          the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing
#          chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the fire-
#          arm; except that a muzzle-loader firearm shall be deemed
#          to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder
#          charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder.


Exactly.  Read it again, paying particular attention to the phrase "in
the...magazine...thereof attached to the firearm...."  Detatch the
magazine from the firearm, and presto!, it's no longer "attached to the
firearm".

Not to denigrate you honest effort, Christopher, but what I'm hoping 
someone (can't) turn up is a *case* cite, where someone was charged 
under PC 120xx for having a magazine, not in a firearm, containing rounds.


-- 
Laird P. Broadfield     lairdb@crash.cts.com    ...{ucsd, nosc}!crash!lairdb
Hi!  I'm a shareware signature!  Send $5 if you use me, send $10 for manual!
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rust control
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:31:21 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA


	I've had a few requests to post information on Wenol, the
magic elixer I bought at a gun show a few years ago.  I have no
affilliation with the manufacturers of this stuff, nor any self-
interest in promoting it.  I'm just passing along information on
a product that I know works.  Are the lawyers happy yet?

	Wenol is made in W. Germany by Hohn & Hohn GmbH, D5657 Haan 1
(I'm German-impaired, but that looks like an address).  The blurb
on the tube is "Cleans, polishes and preserves metal surfaces
and keeps them sparkling.  Wenol for gold, silver, brass, copper,
pewter, chrome, stainless steel, aluminum, tin, painted surfaces,
ceramic tile and fiberglass.  Not suitable for anodised aluminum.
(I wonder if it works on corns and bunions too?)  The "o"'s
in the name above have that sideways colon sitting over them.

	Imported by: Importe' par. (that apostrophe is over the "e")
There are instructions in both English and French.

	The stuff looks like a toothpaste, really, and has a similar
consistency.  Once you start rubbing it around it behaves like
Brasso or similar product, and I can't feel any grit when I rub this
stuff between my fingers.  I have seen it somewhere else once, I
believe at a Wal-Mart or possibly a K-mart, but this one 100ml
tube has lasted me for about three years already and it's less than
half emptied.  To use, simply squeeze a small amount onto the surface
and go to work with a cloth.  When done, wipe it off with a soft
rag and you're finished.  If I happen to see more of this someplace
I'll post where I saw it.

<Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 |"There'll be angels on Ariels in leather>
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu | and chrome, Ridin' down from heaven    >
<viking@iastate.edu      | just to carry me home." -- R. Thompson >
< ISU thinks I need more education, which they provide for a fee. >
From: pnr0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PAUL N. RITTER)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 357 Semi-Autos (was Re: Top Man Stoppers)
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:23:45 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Aug11.142611.6270@amc.com>, reb@amc.com (Bob Brunjes) writes:
#In article <9208090433.AA18770@unislc.slc.unisys.com> dab@unislc.slc.unisys.com
 (Delroy Brinkerhoff) writes:
##mcdphx!jleung@enuucp.eas.asu.edu (Jim Leung) writes
### It seems the consensus is that the 357 is the best Man stopper,
### so... Rather than getting a nice revolver in this caliber, are
### there any good semi-auto's out there that are comparable or
### better in accuracy?
##
##
##I've been meaning to comment on my new acquisition anyway.  About
##two months ago I purchased a used LAR Grizzly Win Mag Mark I.  It
##came equipped for both .357 (my primary interest) and .45 WM.
##
#******good stuff deleted******
#
#Thanks for the first owner-description I've ever heard of the
#Grizzly.  This has my interest.
##
##Now a question... The .45 WM kicks like a stung mule.  My brother
##suggested that a pair of shooting gloves might take some of the
##sting out of it.  Any of you use shooting gloves?  Do they help?
##___________
##Delroy A. Brinkerhoff
##unislc.slc.unisys.com
#
#Are there any rubber grips available for this pistol?  From
#experience, Pachmayrs can sure tame a bucker and snorter.
#
#
#Bob Brunjes            Applied Microsystems Corp
#                       Redmond, WA
#                       reb@amc.com
#

     Uncle Mike's of Oregon (tm) makes quite a few different styles and sizes
     for a MESS of guns. They tame the kick of a 200gr .357 Mag. load...
From: bercov@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (John Bercovitz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rust control
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:11:36 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California

In article <1992Aug14.021920.3195@bbxrbk> bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu 
(Russ Kepler) writes:

#If you *want* to remove the bluing use a dilute solution of
#hydrochloric acid (available in bulk at hardware stores as "Muratic
#acid".  Don't let the fumes carry to anything with bluing that you
#want to keep (do the cleaning outside) and be aware that hydrochloric
#acid can be nasty stuff.

Muriatic is great for de-rusting - it leaves a spongy, easily removed
iron mass behind when it converts the iron oxide to metal.  _However_,
it is also A-1 at causing hydrogen embrittlement. So you must bake
out any parts which you've acid dipped if the parts are stressed at
all.  Springs are especially sensitive inasmuch as they are regularly
highly stressed.  Fortunately, it is simple to get rid of the hydrogen
with a low-temperature bake-out.  For parts which are heat treated
about like springs (most parts) you won't hurt the temperature if you
bake out at 375F for 3 hours.  Parts which are carburized are full-hard
on the surface so to avoid affecting their temper, you must bake out at
275F for 5 hours.  By the way, plating, such as nickel plating, also
causes hydrogen embrittlement.  So insist on a bake-out after plating
or bake it out yourself in your kitchen oven if it has decent temperature
control (say plus or minus 10 or 15 F).

John Bercovitz     (JHBercovitz@lbl.gov)
 
[MODERATOR: Hey, thanks for the tip, John!  By the way, my (known to
be short) patience on that WD-40 experiment may run out by monday.  A
guy over in the physics shop on campus has offered to sandblast the
bayonet I am using in this experiment, getting me ready for polishing.]
From: brian@53iss6.waterloo.NCR.COM (Brian W. Gamble)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: reloading & lead
Date: 21 Aug 92 03:35:58 GMT
Organization: Imaging Systems Division, NCR Corp, Waterloo, Ont., CANADA


In article <1992Aug18.152100.24630@news.yale.edu> swatt@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt) writes:
#
#The good news is: no leading.  The bad news is: I get little slivers
#of copper spit back at me with enough force to penetrate my skin.  It's
#usually on the left forearm, but I've also caught a couple on the left
#side of my neck (another good reason to wear those shooting glasses).
#
#The gun is a reasonably new Ruger GP-100 which has never been abused.

Lots of lines chopped
#
#-- 
#  Alan S. Watt
#  Yale University			Computing and Information Systems
#  Box 2112 Yale Station			(203) 432-6602
#  New Haven, CT  06520-2112		Watt-Alan@Yale.Edu

Further data point. I also have a nearly new GP-100. I used the T&T
Reloading Double Ended Wad Cutter with a copper wash. I also, thinking
that the copper wash would eliminate leading, pushed the bullets beyond
the normal wadcutter speeds.

I did however do up a test series (looking for group, eh!) and recovered
many of the fired slugs from the sandy backstop.

All of the fired bullets (starting with 3.0 Gr of Bullseye) had cuts in the
copper which nicely matched the bore grooves. The faster bullets had strips
of the copper peeled away from the lead. The cut copper was very smooth
as in cut with a razor. I DID have lead in the bore after the 60 round test
string :-(

Conjecture on my point here. The newish GP-100 has really sharp groove edges
and does not dent the bullet nearly as much as it slices it. The copper wash,
being fragile, is not up to the task and breaks up, helped along by hot loads.

The solution that suggests itself is to slighly round the groove edges. Can
anybody who has hand lapped a pistol bore comment? I have no reference info
on this one. Nor do I know what the effect on accuracy might be. My common
sense suggests that, done wrongly, lapping would degrade the accuracy.
What little I have seen in print suggest that, done right, accuracy can be 
improved. I'd rather hear from someone who has done it first hand.
 
--
 Brian W. Gamble,                             Brian.W.Gamble@Waterloo.NCR.COM
 NCR Canada Ltd.                                   Information Products Group
 E&M Waterloo                    Charter Member -- The ShoeString Racing Team
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bolo ammunition
Date: 19 Aug 92 23:44:10 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <0C2B4801B4BF200ADE@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU> PATE@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU (BILL PATE, ADMIN. SERVICES, PATE@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU) writes:
}This reminds of a cannon innovation which came about during the War for
}Southern Independence (a.k.a. Civil War). The cannon was double-barreled.
}The cannon balls were connected with a length of chain. The purpose was to
}mow down rows of approaching troops. In actual practice the minor differences
}in firing times resulted in hooks and slices all over the place. That was far
}better, however, than a misfire in one of the barrels: that took out the gun
}crew. Before you ask, I don't remember which side invented it.

The version I saw a picture of used an ordinary cannon.  One ball was
loaded in the cannon and the other, attached by a length of chain, was set
on the ground beside it.

The War Between the States generated a fair amount of bizarre weaponry.  I
remember a "Life" magazine article on some of it, about 30 years ago.  One
was a gun that fired ~100 .44 rounds _simultaneously_ through ~100
parallel barrels.  Loading and unloading (by opening the rear) didn't
look to be very efficient, or fun.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405