From: merritt@macro.bu.edu (Sean Merritt)
Newsgroups: alt.philosophy.objectivism
Subject: Re: Modern Logic -- question (was Obj. Philosophy)
Date: 7 Jan 93 19:21:29 GMT
	<MERRITT.93Jan7100008@macro.bu.edu> <TORKEL.93Jan7180729@lludd.sics.se>
Organization: Boston University Physics Department
In-reply-to: torkel@sics.se's message of 7 Jan 93 17:07:29 GMT

#In article <TORKEL.93Jan7180729@lludd.sics.se> torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen) writes:



   In article <MERRITT.93Jan7100008@macro.bu.edu> merritt@macro.bu.edu 
   (Sean Merritt) writes:

      >Agreed, so what?

#      You seem to have forgotten the context of this exchange. I said that
#   "logic", "axiom", "theorem" have a different meaning in Objectivism than
#   they do in (the subject of) logic. The "so what" in this case is the
#   following: so Rand's pronouncement that "logic has a single law, the Law
#   of Identity, and its various corollaries" does not refer to logic as the
#   subject is understood in logic, mathematics, or philosophy, or tell us
#   anything about that subject.

I have forgotten nothing. You seem to be interpreting Randian Objectivisim
in a different way then Ms. Rand did. I reject your position as invalid,
in the context of a discussion on Objectivism. Below is a direct quote
from Ayn Rand:

"For instance, THE fundamental concept of method, the one on which
 which all others are based is LOGIC. The distinguishing characteristic
 of logic(the art of non-contradictory identification)indicates the
 nature of actions (actions of conciousness required to achieve a 
 correct identification) and their goal (knowledge)-while omitting 
 the length, complexity or specific steps of the process of logical 
 inference, as well as the nature of the particular cognitive problem 
 in any given instance of using logic."

pg 36 Chapter 4 Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology. by Ayn Rand

expanded 2nd addition Edited by H. Binswanger and L. Peikoff.

from the same page:

  "Epistemology is science devoted to the discovery of the proper
   methods of living ones life."

Webster's definition of epistemology:

   "The study of or a theory of the nature and grounds of knowledge  
    especially with reference to it's limits and validity"

Ayn Rand offered an Epistemology. This is a formal system, both
her definiton and that of my Webster's dictionary indicate that.


      >Do you deny the "a priori" nature of axioms as they are used in
      >Objectivism? 

#     The so-called "axioms" of Objectivism are no more than slogans. In
#   particular, they are not axioms in the sense in which that term is used
#   in logic.

To you perhaps to Ayn Rand, no.

[ibid pg 112]

"Man's knowledge is not acquired by logic apart from experience
 or by experience apart from logic, BUT BY THE APPLICATION OF
 LOGIC TO EXPERIENCE. ALl truths are the product of a logical
 identification of the facts of experience."

(note all uppercase words appear as italics in the text.)

      >You seem to be trying to prove that since axioms and theorems have
      >no real meaning to Randians, that the foundations of Objectivism
      >have crumbled away.

#     Surely your attention span is not really this short? I am making the
#   observation that "logic", "axiom", "theorem" as these terms are used
#   in Objectivism do not have the sense that they have in logic. Again,
#   in the case of theorems, since no Objectivist language, axioms, or rules
#   of inference have been defined.

This is not true. Ayn Rand appeals directly to logic and human cognition
in a formal sense to develop a basis for knowledge. To claim otherwise
is to subststitute your own opinions for the beliefs of Ms. Rand and
at that point the context of the discussion leaves the realm of this
group.


-sjm
--
Sean J. Merritt		         | "Every revolt is a cry of innocence    
Dept of Physics Boston University|  and an appeal to the essence of being."
merritt@macro.bu.edu             | Albert Camus, The Rebel
Newsgroups: alt.philosophy.objectivism