Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hellas
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 14:03:14 EDT
Reply-To:     L Irakliotis <IRAKLIOT@MIAMIU.BITNET>
From:         L Irakliotis <IRAKLIOT@MIAMIU.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Ekpaideusn
Comments: To: "YORGOS M. MALTAS" <GEORGE@UMBC.BITNET>

On Thu, 16 Apr 1992 12:00:00 EDT YORGOS M. MALTAS said:
>
>-> Kati pou kavevas dev e0i3e eivai to poios xrnsimopoiei to ekpaideutiko
>   sustnma kai giati. Isws etsi katalaboume poio eivai to aln0ivo problnma...
>   Opws swsta paratnrnsav oi Dnmakos, Kobotis ki esu to problnma eivai poli-
>   tiko - KAI OXI MONO! By the way, Lewvida, esu blepeis oti dev mas
>   serbirovtav, akoma kai twra, oi "gvwseis" sto piato? Eite sto Amerika
>   eisai eite sto Ellavta (kati pnge va pei o PFK peri Istorias, alla ligo
>   atexva...)

   Bre  mpagasa, adiko  exei  meta  o PFK  poy  soy  arxizei thn  plaka
   "ekpaideytiko  systhma;  poio systhma;  kai  poios  orizei ti  einai
   systhma; emena poios me rwthse;" :-))

   Mas  serbirontai oi  gnwseis sto  piato loipon;  Dhladh, mas  leei o
   mentoras "diabaste thn  tade dhmosieysh", thn diabazoyme,  ki an den
   mpoyme ston kopo na rijoyme mia  matia kai sta references, mas ftaei
   to systhma; Dhladh einai to  systhma poy fyteyei thn periergeia ston
   anurwpo 'h h periergeia einai  emfyto xarakthristiko toy kauena mas.

   Dioti an kapoios  einai periergos apo th fysh toy,  ti sxesh exei to
   systhma kai ti ton ta.i.zoyn apo  to systhma. H alhueia (sxetikh kai
   apolyth) brisketai sto  shmeio A kai sy sto shmeio  B. An aisuanueis
   mia eljh pros  to shmeio A ua poreyteis analogws  eite to systhma se
   periorizei eite  oxi. Systhmata kai aoratoys  exuroys toy anurwpinoy
   pneymatos egw kai oi deka  kardinallioi apo dipla, den anagnwrizoyme
   :-)

>  Kati pou  kavevas allos dev e0i3e  (isws ligo o Kobotis)  eivai evas
>  snmavtikos  paragovtas: o  idios o  ma0ntns! Aln0eia  exei katalabei
>  kaveis oti  o/n ma0ntns  eivai eva  0uma tou  opoioudnpote politikou
>  sustnmatos? Exei rwtn0ei  pote o/n ma0ntns ti 0a  n0ele? Aln0eia sas
>  0umizei tipota n  ekfrasn "mikros eivai akoma exei  polla va ma0ei"?

   Nomizw  pws   miloysame  gia   thn  prwtobaumia   kai  deyterobaumia
   ekpaideysh  genika. Loipon,  poio  to nohma  toy  na rwthsoyme  enan
   7xrono ti uelei  apo to sxoleio; Den einai ligo  astoxh erwthsh; Sto
   gymnasio-lykeio isws na exei nohma  kati tetoio kai ekei stoxeyan ta
   polykladika  lykeia, alla  PASOK  htan ayto  kai  allaze ueseis  kai
   antilhceis pio grhgora kai apo yalokauaristhra.

   Prospauw  pantote  na milw  sta  plaisia  toy  efiktoy, gia  na  mhn
   stenaxwrw  kai  ton  paraligo  sygkatoiko  moy  sto  L.A.  Dioti  an
   piasoyme to  ideato, tote  as janaboythjoyme  oloi stis  NEFELES toy
   ueioy Aristofanh, na hremhsoyme.

>  Kai kati allo Leo:  auto pou aresei se seva mporei  va mnv aresei se
>  allous! To  parapavw sumperasma  sou eivai,  epieikws, aparadekto...

   Ma egw o foykaras den ebgala  kanena symperasma :-( Apla eipa pws an
   o mauhths den aisuanuei mesa toy  ena skirthma gia to X antikeimeno,
   tote  einai   mallon  apiuano  na  entryfhsei   perissotero  s'ayto.
   Prokeitai gia  tetrimmeno symperasma kai  den briskw giati  na einai
   aparadekto.

>   Giati gia va 0ewreitai kapoios/a e3upvos n' prepei va exei lefta n' va exei
>   diplwma n' kai ta duo mazi: kai stis treis periptwseis divoume a3ia s'eva
>   kommati xarti (gi'auto allwste petame kai ta kermata sto gnpedo...)

   Uou Kyrie  fylakh tw  stomati moy.  Peirasmos ki  aytos! Kai  pWs to
   orizeis  to xarti  Giwrgo;  Kai  giati xarti  kai  oxi papyro;  :-))
   Loipon, se  apla ellhnika "that's the  way it is, that's  the way it
   was". Protaseis gia allages; Na  tis syzhthsoyme alla me th desmeysh
   pws ua epiferoyn beltiwseis kai oxi katastrofh.

   Alla kai kati  gia na mhn paw  mazi me to potami.  Den uewrw kapoion
   ejypno me bash thn  xartologia toy (nomismatikh/akadhmaikh) [Koskwta
   na shmeiwseis  se parakalw thn  glwssoplasia sto shmeio  ayto]. Isws
   alloi na  to kanoyn. Egw  ki oi deka  kardinallioi omws oxi.  Kai ua
   eixe endiaferon an cyxografoysame aytoys poy metrane thn ejypnada me
   ta xartia. Ua  anakalyptame elaxistoys elpizw sth lista.  Kai den ua
   prepei  omws na  paraleicoyme pws  oikonomikh eymareia  einai deigma
   eite  sofhs  diaxeirishs  periorismenwn porwn  eite  komchs  klophs!

>   Avtistoixa stnv Ellada, palia eixame ta "protupa" sxoleia (pou polu swsta
>   katargn0nkav) kai twra, dnl. ta teleutaia 15 xrovia, exoume tnv av0nsn tns
>   parapaideias - n opoia omologoumevws kavei kalutern douleia e3aitias fusika
>   tns orgavwsns tns (0a mou peite oti opou uparxouv lefta kai sumferovta ekei
>   0a breis kai tnv orgavwsn - e, dev exete adiko!)...

   Idiwtiko symferon kai organwsh  sthn Ellada einai ennoies asymbates.
   H parapaideia sthn Ellada anuei oxi dioti exei kalyterh organwsh apo
   thn  (dhmosia) paideia,  alla  dioti exei  perasei ena  sygkekrimeno
   mynhma se mia sygkekrimenh genia gonewn poy pouoyn na doyn to kamari
   toys na phgainei sto panepisthmio kai na ginetai anurwpos.

>->POIOS 0A 0ESPISEI TA KRITHRIA A3IOKRATIAS?

   Epitroph     anagnwrismenwn     akadhma.i.kwn    kai     paidagogwn.
   Anagnwrismenos einai  aytos poy  exei enan  elaxisto (px  15) ariumo
   dhmosieysewn  se jena  periodika  me krites  kai  epipleon exei  kai
   entonh syggrafikh kai ereynhtikh drasthriothta.

>->MPOROYN OI BA0MOI NA APOTELESOYN A3IOKRATIKO KRITHRIO?

   Fysika,  an  prohgoymenws   ejasfalisoyme  ena  leitoyrgiko  systhma
   ajiologhshs.   Px  to   panepisthmiako  systhma   baumologhshs  opoy
   oysiastika den  yparxei kanena  uesmiko plaisio pera  apo to  oti "h
   baumologikh klimaka einai apo to 0 ws to 10, arista to 10, elaxistos
   baumos epityxias to 5", einai aparadekto kai anajiopisto.

>->GIATI OXI STA IDIWTIKA PANEPISTHMIA? ETSI DEN PREPEI NA DOYLEYEI TO SYSTHMA?

   Dioti den yparxoyn ta exeggya  sthn Ellada gia thrhsh twn symbatikwn
   ypoxrewsewn  metajy idiwtwn  kai kratoys  kai epeidh  oi mexri  twra
   paraxwrhseis kratikwn monopwliwn se  idiwtes eginan kai ejakoloyuoyn
   na  einai  ypo  synuhkes  paranomes  kai  kataxrhstikes  (blepe  kai
   idiwtikh  radiothleorash).   Epipleon  den  yparxei   kanena  ntopio
   ependytiko   systhma   poy   exei  thn   oikonomikh   epifaneia   na
   antimetwpisei tis  dapanes enos idiwtikoy panepisthmioy  sto megeuos
   estw kai enos perifereiakoy dhmosioy panepisthmioy.

>->AFOY DEN MAS E3YPHRETEI TO EKPAIDEYTIKO SYSTHMA GIATI NA EIMASTE
>  YPOXREWMENOI NA EIMASTE MELH TOY?

   Estw. Tote  ti proteineis; Alla opws  eipa, to oti den  einai teleio
   de  shmainei   pws  ua  prepei   na  mhn  eimaste  melh   toy.  Osoi
   oneireyontai  teleia ekpaideytika  systhmata,  as janadiabasoyn  tis
   Nefeles na syneluoyn.

Leonidas
Miami OH Physics
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