From: ahmad@ra.cs.umb.edu (Ahmad Hashem)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Hamas
Date: 24 Dec 92 00:15:53 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston

In article <1hamdkINNdt6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes:
>
>To your knowledge the latest attacks from Hamas didn't involve any civilians.

I know, of course, but I was talking about Hamas's position in general, not
just the latest attacks.

>Even the one who was kidnapped from Lud was a soldier who had his weapons 
>with him, and used to kill not only Palestinian men, but also women and 
>kids.

Somehow I can't swallow it.  Do you have evidence that Nissim Toledano 
did kill "not only Palestinian men, but also women and kids"?

Don't get me wrong, though.  I do see a fundamental difference between 
attacking a civilian vs attacking a civilian.  The former, I think, is 
always wrong, but the latter is not always so (i.e., sometimes it is).

>Why don't blame jews for killing Palestinian kids?

I certainly do blame them.  But of course, this doesn't mean it is okay
to kill a Jewish kid in return!  Nor even does it mean it is okay to pick
some innocent Jew and blame him/her for this.

>How about the 2 and more children who died in Khan Yunis recently?

Another incident that deeply saddens me. I do hope for the sake of
every party that a negotiated peace settlement will be achieved very soon.

>Is it ok for jews but not for arabs?

It is not okay for anyone.  If Jews did it, it is wrong.  But in no way
does it justify our doing it in return.  As you know, two wrongs do not
make a right.

>Q: In principles, what do you think of killing this policeman?
>A: Killing a pliceman and killing a Palestinian and killing a
>   slodier is an episode that resulted from a situation that is
>   occupation.  So if the causes are removed, the problems
>   disappear.

Makes sense.

>>>Maybe Jews know Islam better than Hamas.
>
>>Meaningless remark.  Some Jews definitely do.
>
>You're dead wrong...
>And if you think a jew does, one has to wonder why?
>Is it to teach muslims to give up their land?

Let's put things in perspective.  You said "Maybe Jews know Islam better than
Islam" in response to a comment by Ron that Hamas has strayed from the true
teachings of Islam.  Now I don't think you have to be a rocket scientist
to know that a religion as noble as Islam does not, under any circumstances,
condone killing innocent children.  In fact, I think we should thank Ron
for his good intentions.  And to this extent, yes, some Jews know about Islam
more than Hamas!

>Lastly and more importantly, if you want to find the Islamic view on
>this situation, read these Quranic verses:
>
>Al-BaQarah
>{
>194. The Sacred month for the sacred month and all sacred things
>are (under the law of) retaliation; whoever then acts
>                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>injury he has inflicted on you and be careful (of your duty) to
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Allah and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).
>}

As you know, scholars have expanded on the "be careful" (ittaKoo Allah!).
And as you know, this verse can not be understood out of context.  It has
to be balanced, for example, with the following verse:

"O ye who believe!  Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to God, even 
as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be 
(against) rich or poor; for God can best protect both.  Follow not the 
lusts (of your hearts) lest ye swerve, and if ye destort (justice) or 
decline to do justice, verily God is well-acquainted with all that ye 
do" (4:135).

I honestly fail to see how a little kid can be justly killed for what
adults do.  Even if Palestinian kids are killed, this in no way justifies
Hamas's killing Jewish kids.  This is not the justice that our religion 
commands.

>Al-Maaidah
>{
>45. And We prescribed to them in it that life is for life, and
>                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>eye for eye, and nose for nose, and ear for ear, and tooth for
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>tooth, and (that there is) reprisal in wounds; but he who foregoes
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>it, it shall be an expiation for him; and whoever did not judge by
>what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unjust.
>}
>
>If tooth and wounds count, what do we say about other things, ie kids,
>women, old people, etc...?

For God's sake, the Maaidah verse is depicting what things were PRIOR to
Islam.  Would you please do yourself a service and read a couple of verses
before and after the one you quote?

>Wake up!

:-)

Best Ahmad