HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: royc@tcsrtp.uucp (Roy Andrew Crabtree)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Teen Agent, Can you Hear Me? Teen Agent, Can You See Me? (was: Clay Shaw is Clay Bertrand, Oswald *was* a Teen Agent
Date: 3 Sep 92 21:21:59 GMT
Organization: Triangle Computer Society

In article <28AUG199215043993@rigel.tamu.edu> mst4298@rigel.tamu.edu (Mitchell S Todd) writes:
> ....
>	How many Marine's medical records have you inspected, Bruce?


	Chuckle!   First TailHook; and now you have the temerity to
	suggest that the average Marine gets VD commonly in the
	Line of Duty!

	Oh, the Pentagon Chiefs of Staff  will love this!

	Gotta admit you have a balanced approach ...

	Are you for real?
>
>
>                                |  
>		              \ | /	 
>                               \|/
>_________________________   ---(0)---   ______________________________________
>\__                      \___/~/|\~\___/                              _______/
>  \__ mst4298@zeus.tamu.edu / / | \ \\ 	      Ambiguity is the      ______////
>    \__ Mitchell S Todd    /    |    \\   Devil's tetherball     ______////
>      \___________________/           \\____________________________////
>         \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/_____________\\\///////////////////////////
>                           /////\\\\\\\\\\\    

Your wings are lopsided too.
>                       	


royc
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Explosive Bullets (was: How easy was the rifle shot?)
Keywords: pretentious summaries confine us to derisive jeers
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 18:50:35 GMT

royc@tcsrtp.uucp (Roy Andrew Crabtree) writes:

>The term "frangible" is unfortunately used ambiguously to refer to multiple
>types of ammunition:

>	1)  Dumdums, or solid cones designed to fragment at impact
>	2)  Hollow points, dsigned to spread at impact
>	3)  Particulates designed to fragment and spread before/on impact
>	  for maximum damage
>	4)  _Explosives_ designed to pop just after entry.

>The only type of shell an assassin would _not_ be likely to use (other than
>an ordinary shell) in a high energy rifle would be 3).  Since _no tests_
>seem to have been done by the WC on the aspect of chemanalysis, 4) is a rather
>open possibility.  Perhaps the reason the "neutron activation" tests were not
>released is the availability of "footprint" in the trace signature
>therein provided, relative to chemical composition analysis:  the presence of
>an identifiable compound _not_ present in the ordinary "Carcano"
>scenario would be rather embarrassing, wouldn't it?

In Dr Guinn's NAA testing, he found elements not normally associated
with Mannlicher-Carcan ammunition.

In addition to Lead, Silver, and Antimony, he found Sodium , Chlorine,
and Aluminum. Would these 'extra' elements point to an explosive
bullet?



Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: kuch@reed.edu (Jerry Kuch)
Subject: Re: Explosive Bullets (was: How easy was the rifle shot?)
Keywords: pretentious summaries confine us to derisive jeers
Organization: Wilbur's Wacky Weasel World
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 19:31:15 GMT

In article <schuck.715632635@sfu.ca> Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes:
>royc@tcsrtp.uucp (Roy Andrew Crabtree) writes:
>
>>The term "frangible" is unfortunately used ambiguously to refer to multiple
>>types of ammunition:
>
>>	1)  Dumdums, or solid cones designed to fragment at impact
>>	2)  Hollow points, dsigned to spread at impact
>>	3)  Particulates designed to fragment and spread before/on impact
>>	  for maximum damage
>>	4)  _Explosives_ designed to pop just after entry.
>
>>The only type of shell an assassin would _not_ be likely to use (other than
>>an ordinary shell) in a high energy rifle would be 3).  Since _no tests_
>>seem to have been done by the WC on the aspect of chemanalysis, 4) is a rather
>>open possibility.  Perhaps the reason the "neutron activation" tests were not
>>released is the availability of "footprint" in the trace signature
>>therein provided, relative to chemical composition analysis:  the presence of
>>an identifiable compound _not_ present in the ordinary "Carcano"
>>scenario would be rather embarrassing, wouldn't it?
>
>In Dr Guinn's NAA testing, he found elements not normally associated
>with Mannlicher-Carcan ammunition.
>
>In addition to Lead, Silver, and Antimony, he found Sodium , Chlorine,
>and Aluminum. Would these 'extra' elements point to an explosive
>bullet?
>

So, uhhh, which bullet are you talking about here?  CE399, or one of the
Connally, Kennedy or limo fragments?

-- 
Jerry Kuch (t-gerldk@microsoft.com) | "Sic Gorgianus Allos Subjectatus Nunc."
  "I was wrong to play God.  Life is precious, not a thing to be toyed with.
   Now take out that brain and flush it down the toilet." - Montgomery Burns

Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: ajs9462@zeus.tamu.edu (SIMON, ANTHONY JOE)
Subject: Resolving Power of Moorman camera?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 15:31:00 GMT

I was wondering if someone could post some information about Mary Moorman's
camera. In particular, what is the lens diameter, the aperture diameter, and
focal length of the lens. Is there a source for this information?

Also, is there any information about the film?

Thanks in advance.

Tony Simon
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: FIELD1@NIEHS.bitnet (Jack Field)
Subject: Oswald's Motive?
Keywords: JFK OSWALD ASSASSINATION MOTIVE
Organization: NIEHS/DIR/SCL
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 12:03:22 GMT

I have recently been reading a new book that seems to have appeared without any
fanfare in the papers or the press.  The title is THE PEOPLE VS. LEE HARVEY
OSWALD written by Walt Brown who is identified as a former Special Agent for
the Justice Department and historian with a Ph.D. in American History from
Notre Dame.  The book is written as if Oswald survived the murder attempt on
his life by Jack Ruby and went to trial for the murder of President Kennedy. 
It is very well written piece of fiction where the author uses the testimonies
given by witnesses to the Warren Commission, the House Select Committee on
Assassinations, and other public records as the witnesses testimony in court.

In it on several occasions the author brings up several point I have never
considered nor have heard anyone else mention before.  I found this particular
one interesting.

One of the things virtually no one has ever been able to determine was Oswald's
motive for assassinating JFK.  In this book, Mr. Brown speculates the opposite.
 If Oswald was truly a disgruntled Communist as the Warren Report would like
everyone to believe (although in Oswald's own words, he was a Marxist not a
Communist), it would be to Oswald's advantage to keep JFK alive not to kill
him.  JFK already had a reputation of being "soft" on communism; the Berlin
Wall crises, arms agreement with USSR, Bay of Pigs incident, etc.  Since JFK
had publicly stated the plan to withdraw 1,000 advisors from Viet Nam by the
end of 1963 and privately stated he wanted the US completely out by 1965 and if
we follow the predominate belief of the period that if we did pull out all of
Southeast Asia would fall to the Communist.  The whole idea of a Communist
sympathizer killing Kennedy for political purposes is absurd.

I have finished three quarters of the book so far and have found more
interesting than I thought it would be when I first purchased it.  Just thought
I'd post this to see what response it may bring.

Jack Field
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy.jfk:3146 alt.conspiracy:10443 sci.skeptic:15883
From: royc@tcsrtp.uucp (Roy Andrew Crabtree)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Teen Agent, Can you Hear Me? Teen Agent, Can You See Me? (was: Clay Shaw is Clay Bertrand, Oswald *was* a Teen Agent
Date: 3 Sep 92 21:19:21 GMT
Organization: Triangle Computer Society

In article <ba4m1l.sheaffer@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
> ...
>Oswald was only 20 when he went to the USSR, supposedly as a "CIA
>operative." That means that his alleged training must have taken
>place while he was literally a teenager.

... like his marine training and Russian language training, hmmm?
Or does the Marine Corp train teenagers as well?  If he was old enough
to be a marine, he was old enough to be recruited.

>
>Does anybody have the slightest REAL evidence that the CIA or other
>U.S. agencies have ever recruited and trained "teen agents," and sent
> ...

... since all such evidence MUST come from the CIA, ipso facto, if the
CIA say it didn't, there must not be any ...  get real!  Oswald
scored 50% on a Russian test while in Japan ...  why would
he know Russian if not in Intelcom work?
  
royc
uunet!duke!wolves!tcsrtp!royc
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: ajs9462@zeus.tamu.edu (SIMON, ANTHONY JOE)
Subject: Re: Ruby's alibi around the time of the assassination
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 15:33:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.085804.15965@fys.ruu.nl>, sdevries@fys.ruu.nl (Sjoerd de Vries) writes...
>In <1992Aug27.224512.11141@rchland.ibm.com> jdahl@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Jared Dahl) writes:
> 
>>     Addressing the problem with the time of Kennedy's arrival.  Is it 
>>possible that the conspirator's delayed the motorcade intentionally?
>>This could be done quite easily.  Why was the motorcade late?  If they
>>knew that the motorcade was going to be 10 minutes late, then the hit teams
>>would all establish alibi's at or around 12:20pm, so if caught, they could
>>use the excuse "if I was really one of the shooters, why was I here at 12:20?"
> 
>	The motorcade was about 5 minutes back on schedule. This was
>	mainly due because the president's limousine stopped a few times
>	to shake hands (not the limousine... the president I mean).
>	I think that this was always the prez's initiative. But I agree
>	with you that the driver could have catched up; he was really
>	driving slowly... too slow according to Prouty.
> 

The problem with having the driver catch up to schedule could still be due to
Kennedy wanting to be accessible to the crowds. What's the point in stopping
twice to shake hands in one area while rushing around in others so that people
only get a glimpse. After all, he was a politician about to start a new
election year. Sure he would be arriving at the Trade Mart late, but then
he was the president. I doubt that people at the Trade Mart would walk out on
him.

The Secret Service had a hard time keeping up with the president. In some
articles in the Dallas Morning News within a few days after the assassination,
you find cases where Kennedy and his Secret Service agents walking into a
building, then suddenly Kennedy turns and walks into the crowd to shake hands.
Certainly, the Secret Service should take some blame for not protecting the
President fully, but I think that they'd have been hard-pressed to do much
better under the same conditions.

Tony Simon
From: kuch@reed.edu (Jerry Kuch)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Quantum Leap (NBC) Sam leaps to Oswald
Date: 3 Sep 92 18:32:23 GMT
Organization: Evil Ernie's Elegiacal Emporium

In article <20116@plains.NoDak.edu> kruger@plains.NoDak.edu (Donovan Kruger) writes:
>This reminds me of a show I saw in which someone went back in time as
>one of JFK's advisors and friends.  I think it was an Amazing Stories
>episode or such.  Anyway, he had the oppurtunity to save JFK and then
>couldn't because he saw what would happen in the future if JFK stayed
>alive in the cold war.  Since JFK was this man's idol, he thought the only
>was to save JFK was to become him himself.  At the end of the episode
>during the shooting, The man's body, not JFK's, was on the ambulance.  
>
>I'm not exactly sure if I got all that right.  Does anyone else remember
>seeing this?  

This was an episode of the new Twilight zone that aired in either the fall
of 1985 or the spring of 1986, if you're referring to the same show that I'm
thinking of.  I can't really remember how the set-up was for necessitating
Kennedy's death... I have a vague recollection that if JFK was saved, 
Khruschev would be assassinated, thus leading to World War III in some
vaguely unspecified, but nonetheless horrible manner.  Thus, at the moment
of truth this guy and JFK switch places, and the story ends with JFK 
lecturing to the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard in 2239
or something...

There were a few really lame spots in this episode... for instance when LBJ
or one of the secret service men on Air Force One picks up a quarter that 
the protagonist dropped and sees the 2200 minting date on it... shudder...
talk about a heavy-handed demonstration that this guy was from the future.


>+------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| DONOVAN KRUGER                         <kruger@plains.NoDak.edu> |
>| (701)663-4689                            <kruger@NDSUVM1.BITNET> |
>| ISD, State of North Dakota                                       |
>| (701)224-3191                                "Sting's The Thing" |
>+------------------------------------------------------------------+
>
>


-- 
Jerry Kuch (t-gerldk@microsoft.com) | "Sic Gorgianus Allos Subjectatus Nunc."
  "I was wrong to play God.  Life is precious, not a thing to be toyed with.
   Now take out that brain and flush it down the toilet." - Montgomery Burns
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: craigs@garfield.cs.mun.ca (Betsy Brett)
Subject: Re: Quantum Leap (NBC) Sam leaps to Oswald
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 17:12:19 GMT

nanderso@endor.sim.es.com (Norman Anderson) writes:

>For those interested in Quantum Leap on NBC this fall, watch for the
>season opener in a few weeks. (Date unknown). At the end of last season,
>Sam Becket "leaps" into Lee Harvey Oswald's "body" just before his photo
>was taken that morning in front of his house. (Who took that photo anyway,

The airdate for the season premiere, last I heard was sometime mid-October.
It airs Tuesday eveings, if that helps find the right date.


-- 
Betsy Brett                          email craigs@garfield.cs.mun.ca
Box 442 RR1                          (specify to Betsy in subject line)
Paradise, NF  A1L 1C1 /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Canada /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: royc@tcsrtp.uucp (Roy Andrew Crabtree)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: How easy was the rifle shot?
Keywords: pretentious summaries confine us to derisive jeers
Date: 3 Sep 92 21:02:29 GMT
Reply-To: royc@tcsrtp.UUCP
Organization: Triangle Computer Society, RTP NC

In article <9AUG199215123083@zeus.tamu.edu> mst4298@zeus.tamu.edu (Mitchell S Todd) writes:
> ...
>>>	I 've never known hunters
>>>	to use frangibles for anything other that target practice.
>
>>Your description of the characteristics of frangible ammunition fits
>>very well with the two head shot theory.
>
>	It might, if there was any evidence of an impact of frangiable
>	ammo in the x-rays. Unfortunately, there isn't, as Petty has
>	attested to. Further, nobody in their right mind would

...  if an assassin can be said to be in his/her right mind ...

>	intentionally use frangiables to try and kill someone.

Bunk.  An assassin will use a shell for maximum accuracy folowed by maximum
damage.  Frangibles cover this precisely.  Why else use a dumdum at all?

The term "frangible" is unfortunately used ambiguously to refer to multiple
types of ammunition:

	1)  Dumdums, or solid cones designed to fragment at impact
	2)  Hollow points, dsigned to spread at impact
	3)  Particulates designed to fragment and spread before/on impact
	  for maximum damage
	4)  _Explosives_ designed to pop just after entry.

The only type of shell an assassin would _not_ be likely to use (other than
an ordinary shell) in a high energy rifle would be 3).  Since _no tests_
seem to have been done by the WC on the aspect of chemanalysis, 4) is a rather
open possibility.  Perhaps the reason the "neutron activation" tests were not
released is the availability of "footprint" in the trace signature
therein provided, relative to chemical composition analysis:  the presence of
an identifiable compound _not_ present in the ordinary "Carcano" scenario would
be rather embarrassing, wouldn't it?

royc
duke.edu!wolves.durham.nc.us!tcsrtp.uucp!royc
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: Part One, Lattimer
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 04:27:17 GMT

grant_jo@ripple.enet.dec.com (Joel Grant) writes:

>5. Why were the bullet holes in JFK's jacket and shirt lower
>than the corresponding hole in JFK's upper back?

>6. Was there definite evidence of a bullet track running
>through and through JFK's body in this area?

>7. If so, in what direction did the bullet travel?

>8. Was the angle of the bullet track consistent with the
>twenty-degree (approx) angle required by shots from the
>6th floor of the TSBD?

Lattimer , deliberately , left out any question of the angle
the bullet went through JFK's body on the horizontal plane.

The bullet entered JFK's back 1 3/8 inches to the right
of JFK's spine. Supposedly the bullet exited slightly to
the right of the centreline of JFK's windpipe.

JFK was looking to the right when this bullet traversed
his body.

Cyril Wecht says the horizontal angle from Oswalds supposed snipers
position was 38 degrees. 

Using a scale map of Dealey Plaza, I have mapped out the corresponding
angles as they would have occurred in JFK's upper chest area.

Accordingly, if JFK's upper chest was 4.5 inches thick -- which is
ridiculously thin -- a bullet could have entered 1 3/8 inches to the
right of his spine and exitted from the centreline of his throat if
fired from the TSBD and JFK was looking straight ahead.

If JFK was looking to the right [which he was] or his
upper chest was thicker than 4.5 inches [it certainly was] then it
would have been impossible for such a bullet to enter and exit where
the WC and pro-WC supporters like Lattimer and Joel claim.
The bullet would certainly have exitted an inch or more to the *left*
of the centreline of JFK's throat.

If the angles are mapped out, it clearly points towards a building
closer to directly behind JFK as the firing point.

The Dal-Tex and the County Records Building fit such criteria.

Since the bullet also travelled in an upwards track -- according to
the HSCA committee -- it is also clear that it was fired from a very
low floor of the Dal-Tex or the County Records Building.

In light of the above facts Joel, please recount Lattimers explanation
for the *horizontal* angle through JFK's body in relation to the
supposed 6th floor snipers nest in the TSBD.

Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: nanderso@endor.sim.es.com (Norman Anderson)
Subject: Quantum Leap (NBC) Sam leaps to Oswald
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 21:15:15 GMT

For those interested in Quantum Leap on NBC this fall, watch for the
season opener in a few weeks. (Date unknown). At the end of last season,
Sam Becket "leaps" into Lee Harvey Oswald's "body" just before his photo
was taken that morning in front of his house. (Who took that photo anyway,
mother, wife,...) I have no idea where the story line is heading, or who
is the technical advisor(s) are for this episode. Some of you may be 
interested enough in the subject to click it on....I know I am. =)
From: marco@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Marco)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Quantum Leap (NBC) Sam leaps to Oswald
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 13:12:35 CST
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB

jdahl@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Jared Dahl) writes:

> |> I heard that Bellisaurio[sp] the producer is going to stick to
> |> the Warren Report. 

I heard the same. I also heard that Bellisaurio KNEW Oswald. (This I read 
on GEnie in the ShowBiz RT...)

  +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
  | John Perry*Voice (204)783-0812*Internet marco@sys6626.bison.mb.ca   |
  +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Ruby's alibi around the time of the assassination
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:06:39 GMT
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada

Sjoerd de Vries writes: >
Bruce Schuck (me) >>

>[...]
>>>Who? How many? Did they know Ruby so that they could identify him? 

>>If you read the Warren Commission Hearings you could get their names.

>>The Police Officer who ran to the top of the grassy knoll said the man
>>who had Fake SS id looked like Ruby.

>>Victoria Adams, a TSBD employee, said Ruby was outside the TSBD immediately
>>after the assassination questioning some of the witnesses.

>	I don't get it. Ruby was at the grassy knoll AND at Houston/Elm
>	at about the same time?

The top of the grassy knoll is at the end of the part of Elm that goes into
the railway yards. That is about 240/300 feet from the entrance to
the TSBD. You can walk 100 yds in less than a minute. Ruby had to walk
in that direction to get back to the Dallas Morning News. 

It would have been very easy for him to play the SS Agent and then
pretend he was cop in front of the TSBD a minute later. It probably
took Miss Adams a minute or so to get to the steps of the TSBD after
the assassination.
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk