HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Finished Creation?
From: dcs@witsend.tnet.com (D. C. Sessions)
Date: 8 Sep 92 04:32:38 GMT
Organization: Nobody but me -- really
X-Mailer: TMail version 1.04

In <adams.715526097@spssig>, adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)  wrote:
# pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey) writes:
# >Yeah, and notice how God warns Adam of the Tree of Knowledge but says
# >nothing of the Tree of Life. Why? This is a creation story right? But does
# >the creation stop when Adam is created from dust, or when Eve is created
# >from Adam, or when they eat the fruit, or when they get birthed or kicked
# >out of the Garden, or is the creation still occuring today in us? When will
# >the creation stop? Oh, and knowledge of good and evil in man causes a
# >separation from God, yeah because this is human being stuff. God is
# >transcendent of such a low level concept. This concept is for us to see the
# >world. This is the creation of human being here, not God. In order for
# >creation of something different, separation is required.
# 
# Well, this is interesting.  If the creation story is representing the quest
# for knowledge and wisdom, then yes, 'creation' is still occuring today.
# Everytime we learn something new or make a discovery, we are continuing the
# act of creation.  Hmm.  Fascinating Captain!

  Very good, gentlemen!  You've just independently discovered the
  concept of continual creation.  FYI, some old & established liturgy
  praises the One Who "renews creation each day."  ('Day' being
  figurative; read as quantum time interval, if you prefer!)

  You'll also find that there is an equally venerable school of thought
  which holds that the world was deliberately left unfinished to give
  humanity a chance to be partners in its completion.
---
--- D. C. Sessions                            Speaking for myself ---
--- Note new network address:                dcs@witsend.tnet.com ---
--- There never was any correspondence between my views and SCI's ---
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: The Adam and Eve Thing
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc,talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 02:40:19 GMT

In article <VJy2qB1w164w@uuisis.isis.org> doug@uuisis.isis.org (Doug Thompson) writes:
>> Man tends to create his gods in his own image.  Man also worries about
>> mortality and about his other limitations.  Myths with gods that are like
>> men but with fewer limitations are what you would expect; they're not somethi
>> unusual that needs explanation.
>That is conventional wisdom. What does need explaining is why man
>changed at the end of the Bronze Age such that these 'stories' fell into
>disrepute. At least conventional wisdom doesn't have an answer for that.
>If the gods (immortals) were actually real people who hung around for a
>time and then left - which is what many of the myths state - then it
>makes sense that people would lose interest in these creatures when they
>were no longer around and active on earth.

Please support this paragraph.  In particular, please support the statement
that such stories fell into disrepute at the end of the Bronze Age.  (Hint:
the world is not the same thing as Europe, and I doubt you will want to
claim that the immortals only left the Americas when the Europeans decided
to go there.)

>Now many myths of that time say that the gods (immortals) introduced
>these high yield food crops along with beasts of burden and animals good
>for food.

It is somewhat unlikely that a culture is going to have myths about
agriculture and animal domestication _before_ the culture gets
agriculture and animal domestication.  It therefore follows that those
myths must come afterwards, space immortals or not.

>Inter-stellar garbage from the Bronze Age is not something many people
>are looking for. There is also the question of how many archaeologists
>would recognize such garbage even if they dug it up?

I can't but help be reminded of the "unusual skull and associated
artifacts" in Science Made Stupid.  It's a 3 eyed skull and a phaser.

I think that if I were to find such items, I'd recognize them as signs
of alien visitation, and I'm not even an archeologist.
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
From: tom@tredysvr.Tredydev.Unisys.COM (Tom Albrecht)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: There are two years left!
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:46:19 GMT
Organization: Unisys, Applied Technology, Malvern, PA

In article <ksand-100992115824@wintermute.apple.com> ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:
[re: Matt 24:34]
>
>We have two positions concerning the 'This generation' definition:

At least two.

>a. This generation means the generation Jesus spoke to, the
>more obvious interpretation. Matt 24:34 clearly then shows
>that Jesus was a really bad futurist.

No, from our perspective He was a very good preterist. :-)  If you examine
the language Jesus employed (in Matt. 24:4-34) in light of the OT
prophectic/apocalyptic language, you'll soon discover that He was clearly
speaking of the events surrounding the destruction (punishment) of
Jerusalem that occurred in AD70.

For example, compare Matt. 24:29 and Isaiah 13:10 (concerning the judgment
upon Babylon).

>b. This generation implies every generation that listens 
>to the message of Jesus, all the way from 2000 years ago till
>today and tomorrow. This is not logical. ...

At least you got that one right. :-)

-- 
Tom Albrecht
Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:16081 alt.atheism:17044
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:16:49 EDT
From: <MVS104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Stop thinking? (Was: Why I am an atheist)
 <adams.716140467@spssig> <1992Sep10.195518.1571@adobe.com>
 <adams.716184466@spssig>

In article <adams.716184466@spssig>, adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) says:
>
>mmwang@adobe.com (Michael Wang) writes:
>
>This doesn't explain how it arises....all it does is explain how it
>mutates.  Where did it COME from?  Why are people evil?  Take Stalin or
>Hitler...what made them evil?

I notice no one ever asks where good came from. What's this nonsense
supposed to mean? "oh, I imported my personal evils from New Zealand."
(It's a joke guys, so take it that way) It would appear that we made
them evil. I doubt many people think of themselves as "evil" in the
sense you're thinking of. The rest, perhaps are just deluded into
thinking that "evil" is actually good and vice versa. Hitler thought
he was doing great things for his country...

>
>That's true.  God had advance knowledge.  If you've looked at all at the
>coversations I've had with Sean Hartigan, you'll know I recognize this, but
>still maintain that evil was actualized by man, even though it was created
>(or at least the logical possibility of evil) by God.

I'm not going to bother going into the idea that your god's evil based
on that he created evil, I'm sure someone else has or will. Besides, who
told you that it was man who "actualized" it? The bible? (snicker) God
himself? IS there a little bias there? Perhaps your god is lying to you
and making the actualization bit up so he doesn't look bad?...

Martin Schulte
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Faith vs. Reason
Date: 7 Sep 92 18:41:13 GMT
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc
Organization: Apple

In article <1992Sep7.035925.27086@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>,
prasanth@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Ravi K. Prasanth) wrote:
> That which everyone calls Hinduism is not really a religion. IMO, every 
> true religion demands blind or unconditional faith from its followers.
> Hinduism does not. A Hindu is free to think and believe in whatever
> he/she chooses to. A Hindu can even deny God's existence. In fact, 
> some parts of Hindu philosophy are devoted to atheistic arguments.
 
To start with, I don't personally subscribe to ideas of Hinduism. My
personal beliefs and experiences have shown me that Hinduism is 
very much tied to the Eastern culture and social structure. In that
sense in my humble opinion it does not provide enough flexibility
concerning
my personal beliefs. Anyway, otherwise I do feel that 'religious movements'
that provide extreme flexibility concerning the paths to self realization
are much more practicable than narrow, one-way street doctrines.

Why? Because we have five billions minds on this planet, and each
one is individual. Individualism implies that self-awareness is the
key to happiness. Or in other words, Joseph Campbell put this notion into
a really nice cite:

"If you follow your bliss, you put yourself on a kind of a track that
has been there the whole life, waiting for you, and the life you
ought to be living is the one you are living".

Thus, any doctrines that pushes the absolute truth down the mouth
of the believer is certain to cause unhappiness in some or sometimes
in many cases. Religions founded on standardization efforts is not
my music.

Kent

"I would rather have a thousands idiots attacking my position, than
have one idiot helping to defend it."	[Paraphrased from Voltaire]
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.
Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:16006 alt.atheism:16918
From: lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard)
Subject: Re: Pythagorean Reform Church
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 18:08:18 GMT

In article <1992Sep6.203639.913@yvax.byu.edu> conjon@yvax.byu.edu writes:
>	We demand a SINE!!!! And don't throw us any TANGENTS or false theorems.
>We have been SECANT the truth for a long time. :)

No sin()'s allowed!

SIN depends on the existance of wicked irrational numbers. 
Rather than sin()ing one should use TRUE MATH (tm), truly I say to you, 
one can only construct angles which have rational sin()'s. If you wish
to have a rod point to a particular angle you must produce a system
whose wave function can be measured in the y direction then in the x and
then in the y again without different results. If x and y are not integral
numbers of wavelengths how can you do this? And don't let me catch you
turning the system or you will mess it all up :-)
-- 
------          Join the Pythagorean Reform Church!               .
\    /        Repent of your evil irrational numbers             . .
 \  /   and bean eating ways. Accept 10 into your heart!        . . .
  \/   Call the Pythagorean Reform Church BBS at 508-793-9568  . . . .
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Minister's Family & AIDS
From: <SECBH@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tuesday, 8 Sep 1992 16:02:50 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

There is a front page story in the New York Times for Tuesday, September 8th
about a minister whose wife and children contracted the HIV virus.

Scott Allen was a Baptist minister whose father and grandfather were
also ministers.  His father was a past president of the Southern Baptist
Convention until 1979.

As a result of his family's experience with rejection by various congregations
Rev. Allen has separated from his church.  One of Mr. Allen's children has
died from the disease as has his wife, his remaining son is infected.  Mr.
Allen is not.  His wife became infected through a transfusion.

Rev. Allen was asked to leave his post by the head pastor of his
church.  As he sought to find a congregation for his family to attend
and for his children to attend Sunday school they were repeatedly
rejected.  Finally he found a pastor who went to extraordinary lengths
to educate his parishioners and to confront their fears and prejudices.
Finally the Allen family had found a church.

Incorporated into the story is information on the AIDS National Interfaith
Network and comments on the fact that there are 1,800 AIDS relief and
education programs run by churches in the U.S.

Jack Carroll
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: janprzyb@scott.skidmore.edu (janine przybylinski)
Subject: benBenny Hinn
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 22:36:21 GMT

Does anyone out there Know of Benny Hinn????
Has anyone been to a Crusade of his?  What happened?
Praise God for his annointed ministry!!!

Janine Przybylinski
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: JW humor
Date: 7 Sep 92 18:44:54 GMT
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc
Organization: Apple

In article <1992Sep7.104857.27275@cs.joensuu.fi>, asiivo@cs.joensuu.fi
(Antti Siivonen) wrote:
> 	Kent, olet taysimittainen kusipaa. Eipa sen enempaa.

As this is an international forum where we use English as the main
language, here's the translation of the very illuminated response from 
Antti:

"Kent, you are a full sized shit-head. Nothing else."

I really enjoy having logical discussions with JWs.

Kent

"I would rather have a thousands idiots attacking my position, than
have one idiot helping to defend it."	[Paraphrased from Voltaire]
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: self-worship
Date: 10 Sep 92 01:44:59 GMT
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc
Organization: Apple

In article <Bu9x55.900@nntp-sc.Intel.COM>, pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul
Harvey) wrote:
> I believe these rules you are refering to are Mr. Buckley's. And if you are
> in a class of people that does not follow someone else's rules, congratulations,
> that is the path of an authentic individual living an authentic life. Best
> wishes on your quest for the Gr-r-rail. Have you learned to roll your r's yet?

What could one state after reading this? Nothing, I guess.

Kent
"I would rather have a thousands idiots attacking my position, than
have one idiot helping to defend it."	[Paraphrased from Voltaire]
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Rich men and Heaven
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:39:19 GMT
 <ksand-080992193704@wintermute.apple.com> <67878@hydra.gatech.EDU> <1992Sep10.155047.18393@athena.mit.edu>
Organization: SPSS Inc.

centry@athena.mit.edu (Jae H Nam) writes:

>	I dunno.  Does it matter if he's rich or poor?  It's just important
>that he or she is a good person.  I think...?
Not according to the usual doctrine of salvation...'goodness' is not
material to the grace of salvation, faith is.  The usual sin of a rich
person is materialism...hence Jesus telling the rich man who was good to
'go, sell all you have and give to the poor, then come follow me.'

 -Steve
--
 The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                        -------------------
     adams@spss.com                           Phone: (312) 329-3522
     Steve Adams                              Fax:   (312) 329-3558
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig)
Subject: Re: There are two years left!
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 92 21:33:29 GMT
Organization: Starfleet Headquarters: San Francisco

rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) wrote (in article <67831@hydra.gatech.EDU>):
>   Mat 24:23   At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!'
>      or, 'There he is!' do not believe it.

How is a Christian to know when the Second Coming has happened, then?
This sounds very Monty Pythonesque -- "Only the true Messiah denies
his divinity!"  ;)

Seriously, though -- if someone is so obviously Jesus in his second
incarnation that everyone believes in him, then that person isn't
Jesus, according to these passages you quoted.  But if Jesus doesn't
look like Jesus, how can anyone believe that he is who he is?

     << Brian >>

-- 
_/_/_/       Brian Kendig  Macintosh Jedi           Live never to be ashamed
 _/_/   Starfleet Captain  Oracle Employee         if anything you do or say
  _/  Intrepid Adventurer  Saturn SL2 Owner    is published around the world
      bskendig@netcom.com  Wizard of Frobozz    -- even if what is published
    Princeton '92! BSE/CS  Writer/Actor/Singer                   is not true.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
From: weaver@chdasic.sps.mot.com (Dave Weaver)
Subject: Re: Stop thinking? (Was: Why I am an atheist)
Organization: SPS
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 23:56:53 GMT


hartigan@ac.dal.ca writes:
>If God created the universe, who created God?


This question seems to pop up frequently. Here goes ...

The Bible makes claims that point toward the transcendence of God, that  
he exists in dimensions apart from our experience. One of those claims is
of his existence "prior to" or "apart from" the existence of the universe. 
Since time as we know it originated at the big bang, existence apart from 
the big bang points to additional dimensions of time. If God is transcendent
and exists in multiple dimensions of time, then the whole concept of a 
"begining" becomes absurd. In two dimensions of time, where is the "begining"
of a plane? In three dimensions, where is the "begining" of a sphere? The 
whole question "who created God" implies a linear timeline, an invalid
assumption if transcendence is one of his attributes.

The Christian concept of God includes the idea of "self-existence", that the
very power of being rests in him. 


Dave Weaver
From: af749@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Philip Ferrante)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Interfaith marriage: Christianity/Judaism
Date: 8 Sep 1992 17:38:17 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: af749@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Philip Ferrante)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu



Does anyone know of a newsgroup which discusses Interfaith Marriage
between Christians and Jews.  Or the raising of children in a 
Jewish/Christian home.  If you can point me to any, and I do mean
ANY resource please respond, I really need some help on this one.

Thanks...
-- 
    __|__                  Philip D. Ferrante     PP-ASEL AGI/IGI
---o-(_)-o---              Internet:  af749@cleveland.freenet.edu

Any day you don't dent the aluminum, is a good day!
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Subject: Re: There are two years left!
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 17:51:54 GMT

In article <68192@hydra.gatech.EDU> rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
}In article <1992Sep15.012858.20729@newsroom.utas.edu.au> Tim.ONeill@english.utas.edu.au (Tim O'Neill) writes:
}|In article <68149@hydra.gatech.EDU>, rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
}|> 
}|> In article <1992Sep14.161647.7312@linus.mitre.org> m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
}|
}|> >I did it myself.  I'm God.  Didn't you know that?  If you don't agree, I
}|> >extend to you the same challenge as last year: prove I'm not.
}|> 
}|> Make the pencil on my office table write your name on the yellow pad
}|> on top of my printer.  The pad is blank and the pencil is sharp and has 
}|> an eraser, in case you make a mistake.  You are claiming to be an all
}|> powerful god, aren't you?
}|
}|This is interesting Richard. What you're saying is that gods can prove
}|themselves to people by fulfilling requests like the one you state above.
}|Well, I just asked your God to make my mouse levitate for a few seconds,
}|but the bastard hasn't done it. Does this mean Yahweh is no more a God
}|than Jim Meritt? ;->
}
}Paul told us that the Greeks look for wisdom, as is a popular concept today,
}and the Jews look for signs, but we (Christians) preach Christ and him
}crucified.  Mr. Merritt has to tell us what he can do to prove he is a god.

Two simple things:
1. Hear me and believe and you shall be saved.
2. Learn to copy my name right.  That's MeRitt.  One "r".

}Jesus the Christ in human flesh is the ALL the witness we need and this
}is the proof we need that God exists.  He finished His work and now is 
}sitting at the Father's right hand waiting for all His enemies to be made 
}His footstool.

And how do you know this?  Got an email address?

"finished work" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA.  Doesn't need to install yet another
patch (Universe 1 from genesis, universe 1.1 after Noah, universe 1.2
from NT, guess, since it is finished, no universe 1.3 "second coming"
is needed)?!?!?


Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: ethridge@bnr.ca (Allen Ethridge)
Subject: Re: Scott G.: Answer this for me...
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx.
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1992 22:32:54 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.203321.28905@en.ecn.purdue.edu> muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen) writes:
>Scott Goehring writes:
>>hartigan@ac.dal.ca writes:
>>
>>>I know some pretty miserable Christians. 
>>
>>I was a lot more miserable as a Christian than I am now as a
>>non-Christian.  Not all of my improved life outlook is due to that one
>>change, but it's definitely an important factor.  A lot of the changes
>>that have helped me feel better about myself are incompatible with the
>>brand of Christianity (Missouri Synod Lutheranism) I was spoonfed as a
>>child.
>
>Tell me something Scott, how did trusting in Jesus for your salvation and
>receiving Him as the Lord of your life make you miserable?  You are not
>allowed to tell me about the people involved... Only about this simple state
>of mind, which is what makes one a Christian.
>
>
>John M.

If i could express the anger this kind of simplistic and inaccurate statement
brings to me your terminal would melt.  But i'll answer your question anyway,
since my experiences are similar to Scott's.

It was the guilt, fear and irrationality necessary to that act or "simple
state of mind" that caused the misery.  Since it is necessary, before you
can accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, to admit that you are a sinner and 
incapable of saving yourself you must first be in a state of guilt and fear.
And then to maintain this "state of mind" you must deny all rationality and
accept ridiculous religious dogma like the literal inerrancy of the Bible.
The constant doubt that comes into an intelligent, curious mind is forcibly
transmuted into more fear and guilt.  This causes a lot of misery.

Now i'll try to educate you.  Christianity is not that "simple state of mind."
Christianity is what Christians do.  I know there are decent people who
consider themselves Christians, but having been a Christian for several years
i also know that there are many Christians who are nothing but fearful guilt-
ridden mean-spirited hypocrites.  These are the kind of people who use over-
simplification and misdirection in their arguments, since they dare not let
the light of reason enter into their minds.  They are also the people of the
Inquisition and the Salem witch burnings and who would today imprison atheists
and homosexuals and any others who will not be enslaved by their Christian
dogma.

Two of the greatest evils ever fostered on humanity are Communism and
Christianity, and Fidel Castro was right when he pointed out that these two
have a lot in common.  I was taught when i was a Christian that a tree could
be judged by its fruit.  The fruit of the Christian tree is rotten.
-- 
allen@well.sf.ca.us                Allen B. Ethridge
ethridge@bnr.ca                    Bell-Northern Research, Inc.
my opinions are my own             Richardson, Texas