HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jfriesne@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Jeremy Friesner!)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
Subject: Re: The best ModPlayer?
Date: 21 Nov 92 00:17:20 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <By0zJz.CHn@unccsun.uncc.edu> jagrizza@uncc.edu writes:
>In article 92Nov20134355@lagrange.iesd.auc.dk, bak@iesd.auc.dk (Soeren Bak) writes:

>>I would like to hear what the AMIGA-folks have to say about
>>MOD-players.
 
>>I need a player which will multi-task, and is controlled by the mouse,
>>and at the same time uses as little memory as possible.

>EdPlayer 2.0....

>no questions asked..


Here's a question:  How about MultiPlayer 1.33?  ;-)

Last time I tried EdPlayer, it demanded a custom screen
and futzed with my downloads...  (of course that was
a while ago, so this may have changed)

In any case, MultiPlayer does Arexx, .meds, .mods,
.futurecomposers, .severalotherobscureformats,
runs on WB, is 2.04 compliant, and is very stable.

Jeremy


-- 
|~~~~///~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|   ///  "Channel Z! All Static! | "WaddayaMEAN my A3000's not    |
\\\///  All Day! Forever!" -B52s |  AGA compatible!  D-OH!!!" -Me |
|\\X/____________________________|________________________________|
From: barrett@snoopy.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
Subject: Re: EdPlayer 2.1!
Date: 16 Nov 92 02:51:41 GMT
Reply-To: barrett@snoopy.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Organization: BLAZEMONGER INCORPORATED

In article <Joe_Carp.00r5@republik.fidonet.org> Joe_Carp@republik.fidonet.org (Joe Carp) writes:
> RF> EdPlayer 2.1 is available!?  Cool!  Is it on wuarchive (if not, where
> RF> can I get it?)
>Yes... I d/l'ed it f rom a local BBS in m area (Los Angeles), and it is
>great.
>It's very stable...

	It has crashed several times on my A3000T under 2.04.  I have
not been able to isolate the problem.  If I do, I'll submit a bug
report to the author.

                                                        Dan

 //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
| Dan Barrett -- Dept of Computer Science, Lederle Graduate Research Center |
| University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA  01003  --  barrett@cs.umass.edu |
 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
From: nilsco@ifi.uio.no (Nils Liaaen Corneliusen)
Subject: Re: Random modplayer?
Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:52:36 GMT
Originator: nilsco@holmenkollen.ifi.uio.no


In article <1992Nov20.003055.75856@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, elm4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Ed Mackey) writes:
> Ick!!  A library?  What for??  I would never be able to get EdSynth to
> work from a library, nor auto-fade, nor master volume, nor the
> spectrum analyzer, nor the SWait command, nor the VU meters,
> *deep breath*, nor the autostop, nor the MIDI ridirect, etc., etc., etc.,
> unless the author of the library explicitly put special functions
> and hooks into the code for all of them.

That depends on how you write the library of course :-). In the pre-alpha
release we're using now, most of these options are possible.

> I would much rather get a sourcecode for the replay from the author of
> the mod editor (ie PT, MED, ie Lars, Teijo) so that I can add all of
> these things myself (as I have).  The only trouble is, the code I got
> has bugs, and don't even think of telling me I can't complain to the
> authors about those bugs.

Complain, man! Complain! F.ex. the CIA init routines in the official PT
replay is... what should I say?... well, quite funny.


> It's the old tradeoff:  The more formats, the less features.  The more
> features, the less formats.  Take your pick.

Wrong. The replayer.library will have more formats and more features. Just
wait.

------------------------------------------------------------
INCLUDE "disclaimer.i"                       Zrouoggathog
Nils Corneliusen                             Cthulhu in '96!
internet: nilsco@ifi.uio.no                  Hasoithshuna
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
From: dgc3@ellis.uchicago.edu (milovan djilas)
Subject: Re: Question on AIFF format
Reply-To: dgc3@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Parts of the University of Chicago
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:01:01 GMT

In article <37064@cbmvax.commodore.com> chrisl@cbmvax.commodore.com (Christian Ludwig - CATS) writes:
>Actually, AIFF is an Apple registered IFF FORM type.  It is documented
>in the Amiga Devices Rom Kernal Manual, and in many Apple documents.  As
>AIFF is a subset of IFF, it wouldn't be correct to say that's it's more
>flexible.  It would, however be safe to say that AIFF is more flexible
>than 8SVX, the predominant Amiga 8-bit sampling format, mainly because
>AIFF can describe non-8-bit samples.

Okay, I don't have the RKM, but I do have the AIFF 1.3 (January 4,
1989) specsheet from Apple.  I know that the AIFF format is very
similar to 8SVX, but the IFF documentation  I have implies that proper
IFF FORMs must contain a 'BODY' chunk -- which AIFF doesn't.  (It uses
the 'SSND' instead, which is identical in structure to 'BODY'.)  Did I
misunderstand the IFF specification, or is it a new policy that FORMs
need not contain 'BODY' chunks?

Thanks for clearing this up.

--dgc
-- 
dgc3@midway.uchicago.edu      This is an automatic mailing, so please disregard
				       it if there is other contradictory mail.

"If I had only known, I would have been a locksmith." -- Al Einstein
From: elm4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Ed Mackey)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
Subject: Re: Playing mods/samples from HD
Date: 24 Nov 92 02:01:04 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Nov23.165221.8006@cc.tut.fi>, l115130@cc.tut.fi (Lehtonen Tero)
writes:
>
>       What I'm looking for is a good program to play modules and samples from
>a HD. I guess the EdPlayer would be fine for playing the mods, but it requires
>something called 'kd_freq.library', which I don't happen to have. Does somebody

EdPlayer also will use the req.library, and, as of EdP 2.1, the asl.library.
Asl of course will not run under WB 1.3, but both kd_freq.library and
req.library will.  They can be found on most Amiga FTP sites
(sorry I can't remember the exact directory) and have names like
frqlibxx.lha and reqlibxx.lha (where xx is the version number that seems
to change more often than I can keep up with :).

                                   --Ed.
-- 

-------------------------------+----------------------------------------
                    Ed Mackey  |  611 E. 5th St.
               (215) 882-0138  |  Lehigh University
              elm4@lehigh.edu  |  Bethlehem, PA, 18015
-------------------------------+----------------------------------------
Co-sysop, Somerton BBS (215) 464-6775. 7 lines, 670 Megs, Amiga/IBM/Mac.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
From: l115130@cc.tut.fi (Lehtonen Tero)
Subject: Playing mods/samples from HD
Followup-To: -
Summary: -
Keywords: -
			
			Hi there!
Organization: Tampere University of Technology, Finland
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 16:52:21 GMT


	What I'm looking for is a good program to play modules and samples from
a HD. I guess the EdPlayer would be fine for playing the mods, but it requires
something called 'kd_freq.library', which I don't happen to have. Does somebody
know where I could download this library from? Also, what other good module
players would you guys recommend? Something that runs on WB1.3, please.
	I'm also interested in a program capable of playing large samples
directly from my HD, under full multitasking, of course. I tried a short little
utility called 'PlayFile', but it didn't look very good at all. No loop, no
user friendly Amiga-like menus and finally it was unable to play a 830,000 
bytes file correctly. If you know any better player, please let me know.

	Thanx in advance!

				Tero Lehtonen, l115130@cc.tut.fi
From: Paul_Trauth@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Paul Trauth)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
Subject: Re: Shamen at 17-BIT
Distribution: world
Date: 19 Nov 92 20:25:45 CST
Organization: The Amiga GateWay BBS * New Orleans, La.

In a message dated Thu 19 Nov 92 12:32, Mcgraicp@cs.aston.ac.uk (uncle Zeff
wrote:

 MZ> For some new improved Protracker music for the 90's, why not contact
 MZ> 17-BIT software
 MZ> (sorry, can't remember the address off hand) for some lovely Shamen
 MZ> remixes by
 MZ> yours truly.

 MZ> I jest ye not.

But Is It A Coincidence Dept: 'en-tact' by the Shamen is the cd currently
playing as i read news. ("human nrg", bleah, not one of the better tunes on
the disc...)


-- Via DLG Pro v0.995

- be zorch, daddi-o --------------- paul (raccoon) trauth ----------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet -> paul_trauth@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US        \\\///\\\///\\\
Usenet   -> rex!agwbbs!paul_trauth                      \\\///\\\///\\\
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "eagles may fly, but a weasel will never get sucked into a jet engine"
From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
Subject: Re: audio digitizer advice wanted
Date: 22 Nov 1992 20:26:50 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

jmarin@messi.uku.fi (Jukka Marin) writes:

>keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:

>>I'm going to buy an audio digitizer.  The two that I see advertised are
>>PerfectSound and Digital Sound Studio.  Does anyone know the difference
>>between these (features, etc.)?  Also, these are probably external
>>devices.  Is there an internal audio digitizing card for the A3000?

>There are the SunRize AD1012 (12-bit) and AD516 (16-bit) DSP boards.
>They come with Studio 16 digital sound studio software.  The sound
>quality is very good and you can then save the samples in 8-bit format
>to be used on Amigas without these boards.

>Studio 16 lets you record, play, mix, delay, echo, edit, etc. the samples
>and uses SMTPE time code, has an ARexx port and an intuitive user interface
>etc etc.

>I was just playing with the AD516 board and Studio 16 and I really liked
>them.

Yes, I know that the Studio 16 boards are probably the best, but I was looking
for something, er, cheaper...

keith
From: jfriesne@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Jeremy Friesner!)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000: Is Paula the same woman?
Date: 15 Nov 92 20:05:35 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <bn.00h5@mndcrme.uoknor.edu> bn@mndcrme.uoknor.edu (Bo Najdrovsky) writes:


>The reason for this is that Commodore has decided to use the DSP technology
>rather then try to brew their own new sound chip. I'm glad they made this
>decision, because a DSP is a much more flexible device, and it will provide
>great audio to boot.


So does this mean we'll be able to use Paula and the DSP in parallel
on new systems, say for combos of good sound/great sound and good
sound/3d vector graphics?

J

-- 
|~~~~///~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|   ///  "Channel Z! All Static! | "WaddayaMEAN my A3000's not    |
\\\///  All Day! Forever!" -B52s |  AGA compatible!  D-OH!!!" -Me |
|\\X/____________________________|________________________________|
From: ma90gjp@cen.ex.ac.uk
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
Subject: Great Mods on archives
Date: 18 Nov 92 09:51:01 GMT
Organization: University of Exeter, UK.

I've been going though the archives searching for really good music files.
There is such a wide range it makes it very time consuming to do. 
So far the best I have found is Beyond Music, Space Debris, and the Oddessey
package. A few others worth listening to are Apocalypse and Rainy Night.
What does everyone think are the best Mods around?? 
Another non standard module uses a sample player. Its a demo called Elgato
and has a really good piece from Your the Voice.



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Graham Pursey  contact at ma90gjp@cen.ex.ac.uk
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: borzieri@cavour.ICO.Olivetti.Com (Ivan Borzieri)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
Subject: Music-X 2.0 Release
Date: 16 Nov 92 08:58:41 GMT
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

On Amiga Format Special out now,  I read a little article about Music-X 2.0.
It said "it's going to be released very soon", but this time there was a photo
too !
It did not shw Music-X, but Notator-X, a notation softtware which will come 
with MUsic-X 2.0.

It looked great !


							Bye,
							Ivan
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
From: bmccnnll@unix1.tcd.ie (Barry McConnell)
Subject: Re: The best ModPlayer?
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 01:54:40 GMT

In <41367@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> jfriesne@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Jeremy Friesner!) writes:

>Here's a question:  How about MultiPlayer 1.33?  ;-)

Have I missed something? I only have v1.32. :^)  (Is there a v1.33 yet?)

But anyway - yes, MultiPlayer is beyond a shadow of a doubt, the best mod
player available. Sure, EdPlayer has a flashy CD-player screen, but less
features overall. ;-)  (Sorry Ed!) Bryan has put a *lot* of effort into making
MP the kind of thing which every 2.0 user should have: ooooh that multi-
threading... Well worth registering!

Barry.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
From: z3kpw@ttacs1.ttu.edu ("Wheeler, Kevin")
Subject: samples
Date: 20 Nov 92 08:17:00 CST
X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA21463; Fri, 20 Nov 92 06:24:44 -0800
X-Received: by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA01795; Fri, 20 Nov 92 06:24:39 -0800
X-To: "comp.sys.amiga.audio.usenet" <comp.sys.amiga.audio.usenet>

I've found that it helps if you snatch your basic sounds (synth noises, drums)
from other mods and the packed sample collections that are available on
ftp sites.  Then for the rest of the stuff like beat loops and vocal cuts,
you can sample those yourself.  Listen to everything you can, buy cheap
records, tape off the radio, sample anything interesting.  

Most sequencers also come with samples on the distribution disks, which
can get you set up with basic sounds.

College radio or other non-commercial stations are great for getting 
samples 'cause they usually have different specialty shows playing obscure
music.  Check out jazz, dance, and urban conteporary shows... and the punk
shows will be a good source for vocal cuts.  

There are also commercial albums you can buy with sounds and beats on 'em, but tthey're usually pretty expensive.
From: Joe_Carp@republik.fidonet.org (Joe Carp)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
Subject: Re: Random modplayer?
Distribution: world
Date: 17 Nov 92 15:58:19 PST
Organization: Eiffel Media of Orange County

In a message dated Sun 15 Nov 92 15:33, Elm4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ed Mackey)
wrote:

 EM> If you're talking about the DMA wait, then you have no concept of the
 EM> time involved -- there needs to be a pause between certain writes to

But "users" aren't supposed to be concerned about how or why. :-)
It's stated in the Dictionary Of Computer Labels:
  User -- 1. one who knows nothing, does nothing. 2. one who's hard
controls "mouse" input device; points and clicks and clicks and points. ;-)

 EM> Also, in case you didn't notice, EdP 2.1 is capable of a HIRES/lace
 EM> screen
 EM> now, made just for you people who have been bugging me about the
 EM> lores.

Not only that -- it looks real neat too!  Thanks!

 EM> flames SET 0
 EM> Ah, whew, maybe someone should write a book on How to Defend Your
 EM> Software
 EM> from Unfounded Rumors Floating Around on Usenet...  ;-)

We still luv ya Ed.  We have to...  we need you. :-)

   -Joe

-- Via DLG Pro v0.995

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
From: idealord@dorsai.com (Jeff Harrington)
Subject: SunRize 16 Bit Board and Software Reviewed in Latest BYTE
Organization: The Dorsai Embassy, New York's Computer Consulate. +1.718.729.5018
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:50:13 GMT

Header pretty much says it all.  Don't have the article in front of
me now, but it mentioned 8! track record, playback, cost $1495.00
software not quite as advanced as Mac or IBM HD recording systems
but does have cut, paste, fades... 
 
Works in 2000 or 3000 (no mention of 4000) and can only record 2
tracks at a time.  SMPTE time code capabilities and multi-tasking
modules in the software.  
 
Anybody want one?  

Jeff Harrington
idealord@dorsai.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
From: qala@netcom.com (Stephen Semegran)
Subject: Re: Chainsaw sound??? still looking!
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 04:34:58 GMT

iguana@nmt.edu (Shawn Clever) writes:


>I am still looking for a Chainsaw sound... I want to add it into a mod or two.

>Please let me know if you all run into one?




>Lizardman
>(iguana@jupiter.nmt.edu)


I have a Chainsaw sound sample that you are welcome to, but I warn
you it is large.  The IFF sample is 1309434 bytes, and plays for 1:11
and includes a false start, then starts, runs, and then stops.
I have compressed it to 1112112 in lha form.  Let me know where to
FTP it.

Steve
(qala@netcom.com)


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
From: Carl.von.Loesch@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de (Carl von Loesch)
Subject: TanzTrax 2 - Only 35 K of MED mod music - A download quickie
Organization: University of Oldenburg, Germany
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:11:44 GMT
Summary: You can get it right with andemar's works..

I've placed it on aminet.. will move to mods/med I suppose.

It's also available from 134.106.1.9 /pub/amiga/incoming/mods,
that's the same ftp you can also get Andemar's material.
(That I haven't heard myself yet.. gonna do so tonight.. :))

My piece is small but effective, dancy, kraftwerkian, housy..
You can read more about it in the readmes. And no, it doesn't
steal from others as Andemar suggested..  ;)  Just the raw
samples.. *grin*

It needs a player capable of MMD0 (MED module 0) format, which
most of the recent ones should be able to handle. If not, let
me know and I will put a copy of the original MEDplayer out somewhere.

This might be the beginning and end of my guest appearance of the
mod scene. Going back to MIDI... Unless I get some real nice feedback.
So if you like it - don't forget to mail.

Reminds me that I still owe u4ia a mail myself.. *giggle*
-- 
o+--_________________________---------------------------------------------_-+o
o|~(                         )~!+-!~(  loesch@informatik.uni-oldenburg.de )~|o
o|~(  Carl 'LynX' v. Loesch  )~!+-!~(       244661 at DOLUNI1.bitnet      )~|o
o+-----------------------------------------------------------------------/--+o
VMXSYS371I Your logon password has expired. It was 332 days old.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
From: iguana@nmt.edu (Shawn Clever)
Subject: Chainsaw sound??? still looking!
Organization: New Mexico Tech
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 01:57:15 GMT


I am still looking for a Chainsaw sound... I want to add it into a mod or two.

Please let me know if you all run into one?




Lizardman
(iguana@jupiter.nmt.edu)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
From: jhsa@cc.tut.fi (Janne Salmij{rvi)
Subject: Re: Random modplayer?
Organization: Tampere University of Technology, Finland
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 12:18:49 GMT


Delitracker 1.30 has random play and plays protracker modules without
problems. Excellent player IMHO. I saw someone complaining about the size,
and I think he meant that if all the external players were loaded to mem then
it would take much mem (well that's relative, on 1 meg machine it takes much
mem, but on 16 megs machine you hardly notice the mem usage ;-). You don't
have to load all the external players [protracker player is internal so you
don't have to load any if you don't need].
From: kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason 'KodaK' Balicki)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
Subject: Re: Chainsaw sound??? still looking!
Date: 20 Nov 92 20:13:32 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <1992Nov20.015715.714@nmt.edu> iguana@nmt.edu (Shawn Clever) writes:
>I am still looking for a Chainsaw sound... I want to add it into a mod or two.
>Please let me know if you all run into one?
>Lizardman
>(iguana@jupiter.nmt.edu)


There is one in the "Fraxions Revenge" demo.  I haven't tried to rip it
so I don't know how easy it is, try it and find out... You can find it
on most FTP sites, kinda gory.

--Jason Balicki
kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
From: ewilts@galaxy.gov.bc.ca (Ed Wilts)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
Subject: Re: MIDI file formats
Date: 20 Nov 92 08:09:48 -0800
Reply-To: EWILTS@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA
Organization: BC Systems Corporation

In article <1ehp6qINNdk0@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu>, bubblz@ecst.csuchico.edu (Boy Wonder) writes:
> 
> Anyway, I would be much obliged, partner, if anyone could send me the
> IP address of the ftp site that has all the information about MIDI file
> formats and stuff.   If you have the files handy, I wouldn't mind if you
> just sent me those instead.  

You can FTP this stuff from ucsd.edu in the /midi/doc directory.

-- 

Ed Wilts, BC Systems Corp., 4000 Seymour Place, Victoria, B.C., Canada, V8X 4S8
EWilts@Galaxy.Gov.BC.CA     Office:  (604) 389-3430    Fax: (604) 389-3412
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
From: mcgraicp@cs.aston.ac.uk (Uncle Zeff)
Subject: Re: HELP PLEASE!!!!!!!
Reply-To: mcgraicp@cs.aston.ac.uk
Organization: Aston University (Comp Sci)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:43:11 GMT

Rap scratches? WHY?

I`ve got 45 sample disks. And enough drums to set up my own tribe of shamen.

Some lovely sub bass too.

Strings generally sound crap when sampled. I've got one that's absolutely smashing though. Remember that string noise in Justify My Love? That's the one.

Lovely.

Don't know how I can get 'em to you though. Mind you I know someone who does, so I'll
check that out. Write back in the mean time.
From: barrett@snoopy.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
Subject: Re: Music Module Reviews
Date: 16 Nov 92 02:54:22 GMT
Reply-To: barrett@snoopy.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Organization: BLAZEMONGER INCORPORATED

In article <1992Nov14.173701.28351@ultb.isc.rit.edu> scottl@ccimp.csh.rit.edu (Jerry) writes:
>  I think we should start extensive reviews of the modules in all of the 
>"popular" ftp sites.  ie wuarchive & nic.funet.fi

	Please do!!  And please send your (organized) reviews to
comp.sys.amiga.reviews!  I'd love to have some "mod" reviews.

	For review guidelines, send mail to

		amiga-reviews-requests@math.uh.edu

or check comp.sys.amiga.reviews for the monthly postings.

                                                        Dan

 //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
| Dan Barrett -- Dept of Computer Science, Lederle Graduate Research Center |
| University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA  01003  --  barrett@cs.umass.edu |
 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////