From: pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Stereotyping
Date: 1 Sep 92 10:49:15 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Image Processing Lab

In article <12043@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> In article <193983@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov>, pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes:

> But then again, there's the constant discussions of S&M and leather
> in soc.motss...

Repeat after me--people who wear leather are not necessarily into S&M.  Now,
let's discuss the rest of your point.  Can you give me the following infor-
mation:

1.  The total number of people who discuss S&M on soc.motss?
2.  The total number of people who post to or read soc.motss?
3.  The relative number of S&M postings on soc.motss as compared to the
total number of postings?
4.  The reason why we should consider soc.motss representative of the millions
of homosexuals worldwide?
5.  Define "constant".  Daily?  Weekly?  For extended periods of time?  Non-
stop?

> Look.  When a guy walks out of a bar wearing leather pants, leather
> jacket, leather cap, and there are metal studs on EVERYTHING, and
> he's not the only patron involved, what assumption do you make?

I assume that he's into leather.  There are any number of people, homosexual
and heterosexual, male and female, who make leather a part of their sexual
activities and yet are not involved in any S&M activities.

Incidentally, did you know that most people make a distinction between
bondage and discipline (B&D) and S&M?  There are a few couples of my
acquaintance who occasionally tie each other to the bed.  They find it
adds spice to their sex life.  They would be quite shocked to find that
you consider this S&M.  I know a woman who periodically (once every few
months or so) dresses in an all-leather costume and has fun going to bars
with her husband.  She enjoys the shock value.  She also would be shocked
to find that you consider her involved in S&M.

> I'm reminded of when the S.F. Police Dept. went recruiting in
> "Chaps" a few years back.  According to press reports at the time,
> the recruiting officer explained the virtues of recruiting cops
> in a place like that, "At least we don't have to teach the use
> of handcuffs and restraint devices."  Does it scare you to think
> that police officers are being recruited in a place where the
> clientele has pain, humilation, and sexual pleasure conflated?

Not at all since, (as is your usual practice), you haven't established that
the clientele of Chaps has "pain, humiliation, and sexual pleasure conflated".
Until you give me evidence otherwise, I'm forced to the conclusion that
all of this exists primarily in your mind.

Incidentally, if you should happen to be correct, did it ever occur to you
to ask *why* a higher percentage of homosexuals are "into" S&M, B&D, and
leather?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Bartholomew          |   "The time has come, the walrus said, to talk of
                          |    many things..."                  Lewis Carroll
pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov   |   Disclaimer:  Opinions?  What opinions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------