HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Flow Form enlargement
Date: 11 Nov 92 03:28:53 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland at College Park

In article <1992Nov6.102854.8017@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> irving@white.toronto.edu (Irving Reid) writes:

>I've had a close look at the big flowforms Art Ross from Vancouver
>builds.  He has built a few in the 500-1500 square foot range, along
>with smaller sizes.

1500 feet^2?  That's a BIG kite.

>The main change is to make the airfoil thinner and move the high point
>forward.  There's not a lot of science necessary; flowforms are
>relatively forgiving about cross-section.  Guessing from only having
>seen his kites, the body proportion is roughly 3-4 units span to 5 units
>chord.  He also uses longer "legs" than the book plans show, partly for
>stability and partly for effect.

By legs I suppose you mean the keels?

5:4 sounds like most of the flowforms I've seen; mostly but not quite square.
(sort of like a TV screen)

>Cell width (the spacing between ribs) doesn't scale linearly for either
>flowforms or parafoils.  For 30 square feet it shouldn't be a problem,
>but for larger foils you need to put the ribs proportionally closer
>together to get the cross-section to keep its shape.

As I recall, the 252 has 8 cells.  I know everything up to and including 
the 30 have 4 cells.  What about the 60? 

>For 30 square feet, try a cross-section about 12% (of the chord) deep,
>with the highest point maybe 10% back from the leading edge.  This is a
>fairly radical departure from published plans, but then the published
>plans don't fly quite as well as one would like.

Sounds like a *very* radical departure.  In fact, if memory serves (I
don't have a copy of the book handy), isn't that more like the Flow Form
II (Steve Sutton's design) in Margaret Gregor's book, as opposed to what
she refers to as a better kite, the "Flow Form I"?

Any hints on venting?  


Thanks for all of your suggestions.  They've been quite helpful.  I'm still
at the "what am I getting myself into" stage, but I'm still eager to try
building the kite.  Unfortunatley, it'll be anothe 2 or 3 weeks before I
can order the fabric.

Got any suggestions (Pat, are you out there?  This means you!) for dealing
with, laying out, cutting, etc., the large pieces of fabric for the
top and bottom of the kite?  I mean this in terms of laying it out, marking,
cutting, etc.  I'm not really used to huge pieces of fabric, but I have
no interest in a little flow form...;-)

> - irving (Hey!  I finished my Masters, Moved, and got a New Job!) -

Congratulations!



Jeff
-- 
|Jeffrey C. Burka                | "Show what you are / Be strong, be true  |
|                                |  Time for you to / Be who you are."      |
|jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu            |                         --Happy Rhodes   |
From: sc5@prism.gatech.EDU (CSEPLO,STEPHEN P)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: GISKC This Weekend
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:02:27 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Just a reminder.

The Golden Isle Stunt Kite Championships are this weekend at Jeckyl Island
on the coast of Georgia. This is an Eastern League event and runs for
three days, Friday through Sunday, Nov 13-15. Friday is a "down day"
for arrival, flying and a scavenger hunt that night following a 
cook out. Saturday the competition starts and continues through Sunday
with single line events, quad line and innovative on Sunday as well as the
Rokkaku Challenge. Saturday night is the banquet. The other events take
place on Saturday.

Contact Tom or Sue Masson (in the AKA directory & is listed on the American
Kite callender).

SEE YOU THERE! 

PS: I won't be there till early Saturday. I have to go referee a high school
varsity game Friday night in Vidalia.

 
-- 

The Mad Hata  

"Hey, Mon....Tako Kichi!"
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: irving@white.toronto.edu (Irving Reid)
Subject: Re: Flow Form enlargement
Date: 6 Nov 92 15:28:54 GMT

jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) writes:
 -- asking for suggestions on scaling up a flowform


I've had a close look at the big flowforms Art Ross from Vancouver
builds.  He has built a few in the 500-1500 square foot range, along
with smaller sizes.

The main change is to make the airfoil thinner and move the high point
forward.  There's not a lot of science necessary; flowforms are
relatively forgiving about cross-section.  Guessing from only having
seen his kites, the body proportion is roughly 3-4 units span to 5 units
chord.  He also uses longer "legs" than the book plans show, partly for
stability and partly for effect.

Cell width (the spacing between ribs) doesn't scale linearly for either
flowforms or parafoils.  For 30 square feet it shouldn't be a problem,
but for larger foils you need to put the ribs proportionally closer
together to get the cross-section to keep its shape.

For 30 square feet, try a cross-section about 12% (of the chord) deep,
with the highest point maybe 10% back from the leading edge.  This is a
fairly radical departure from published plans, but then the published
plans don't fly quite as well as one would like.  At that size, it will
probably pull just on the margin of needing gloves; 300lb. line should
hold just fine, though you might want 500 in a big wind (I fly a 50sq.
foot parafoil on 500 and have never had problems).

 - irving (Hey!  I finished my Masters, Moved, and got a New Job!) -
From: north@fir.egr.msu.edu (George M North)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: RUMOR: Easton abandons kite spar product line?
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:24:59 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University

Yes Easton Is out of the kite spar business but if you are looking
for a replacement try Glassforms Pro-spar series. From the start 
I thought that the Pro-spar comp. was better than the Easton rod. 
and glassforms should be around the kite industry for a while.


Happy flying.
George                         North@frith.egr.msu.edu
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Kite powered boat
Date: 11 Nov 1992 13:17:18 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


   I am not an expert of the latest kite designs but
 after looking at some old clippings about experimental
 sails and boat designs, I am wondering about the
 feasibility in terms of aerodynamics of say having
 a person sitting at the bow of a boat and flying
 one or more highly maneuverable kites from that
 point.  Generally kites naturally position themselves
 directly opposite the wind I guess but some kinds
 can be maneuvered ===into the wind=== much as a
 sail can be trimmed and boat tacked into the wind.
 So the idea would be to have this person at the
 bow flying and steering the kite into the wind as
 possible while of course another person is steering
 with the rudder.  Is it possible to head as far
 into the wind this way as with a comparable regular
 sail on the boat?

-- 
Capt. Kirk: let's head for that planet, third from the sun, it
            looks promising.... |-)
From: cdt@zoo.bt.co.uk (Clive Dennet-Thorpe)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: construction plans for softkites
Date: 5 Nov 92 09:53:44 GMT
Reply-To: cdt@zoo.bt.co.uk
Organization: BT Laboratories


There is a good plan for the Peter Lynn Tri-D box kite in

Maxwell Eden's "Kiteworks" book. 

I have built the kite from this plan and encountered no
construction difficulties and it flew beautifully!

Tip: I used end-caps with the closed end sliced off 
to make a sort of tubular washer for the sail-tensioners


Good Luck!!
Clive Dennett-Thorpe
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: irving@white.toronto.edu (Irving Reid)
Subject: Re: Flow Form enlargement
Date: 11 Nov 92 16:21:40 GMT

jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) writes:
>In article <1992Nov6.102854.8017@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> irving@white.toronto.edu (Irving Reid) writes:
>>...  He also uses longer "legs" than the book plans show, partly for
>>stability and partly for effect.

>By legs I suppose you mean the keels?

Sorry, I should have been more precise.  I meant the extensions off the
back of the kite, like where the legs are on Martin Lester's Legs
flowforms.  Tails might be a better name, but they're not really that
either.

On the other hand, the keels on the big flowforms I've seen are also
modified; like the cross-section, they get thinner as the kite gets
larger; perhaps 15% of chord or so.  I'm kind of guessing at that, so
don't bet the farm on it.

>>Cell width (the spacing between ribs) doesn't scale linearly for either
>>flowforms or parafoils.  For 30 square feet it shouldn't be a problem,
>>but for larger foils you need to put the ribs proportionally closer
>>together to get the cross-section to keep its shape.

>As I recall, the 252 has 8 cells.  I know everything up to and including 
>the 30 have 4 cells.  What about the 60? 

The rough numbers I've heard (for parafoils) is that cells shouldn't be
more than ~10 inches wide; flowforms usually go larger, but the wing won't
hold shape very well if the cells are as wide or wider than they are high.

>>For 30 square feet, try a cross-section about 12% (of the chord) deep,
>>with the highest point maybe 10% back from the leading edge.  This is a
>>fairly radical departure from published plans, but then the published
>>plans don't fly quite as well as one would like.

>Sounds like a *very* radical departure.  In fact, if memory serves (I
>don't have a copy of the book handy), isn't that more like the Flow Form
>II (Steve Sutton's design) in Margaret Gregor's book, as opposed to what
>she refers to as a better kite, the "Flow Form I"?

With all the parafoils and flowforms I've seen, the rule seems to be
the larger the kite, the thinner (proportionally) the cross-section.  If
you're careful with the vent holes in the ribs, you can always build it
thicker and then just pull the top off and resew it to try a thinner
section; this saves 9/10 of the work of building a new foil.

>Any hints on venting?  

Sorry, no.  Anyone else?

>Got any suggestions (Pat, are you out there?  This means you!) for dealing
>with, laying out, cutting, etc., the large pieces of fabric for the
>top and bottom of the kite?  I mean this in terms of laying it out, marking,
>cutting, etc.  I'm not really used to huge pieces of fabric, but I have
>no interest in a little flow form...;-)

My answer to this is running on a bit, so I think I'll work on it a bit
longer and post it separately to get the big audience.

 - irving -
Xref: sparky rec.mag:241 alt.zines:194
From: sol@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (larry carrier)
Newsgroups: rec.mag,alt.zines
Subject: New Ezine about Experimental Music Available
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:17:56 GMT
Followup-To: rec.mag
Organization: Alt-167


                                   Alt-167
                            .........   .............
                           .    ..  .   .           .
                          .  .  ..  .   ......  .....
                         .  . . ..  .        .  .
                        .  .... ..  .        .  .
                       .        ..  .        .  .
                      .  ...... ..  ........ .  .
                     .  .     . ..         . .  .
                    ....      .............. ....
                            
                           ..   .....  .......
                          ...  ..           ..
                           ..  ......      ..
                           ..  ..   ..    ..
                          ....  .....     ..


 ---------The First Electronic Magazine Dedicated To Difficult Music--------

                     Experimental Music-Electronic Forum
                     ===================================
                             Issue #1  Out Now
                     ===================================
                     ~Interview with M/SR
                     ~Mike Hovancsek talks about Pointless
                      Music
                     ~Thomas Sutter on his work with
                      Regicide Bureau
                     ~Some Cheesy Database thing that'll
                      give you names and numbers from 
                      around the globe
                     ~In standard VGA for machines running 
                      DOS <or something that'll emulate it 
                      I guess, mouse also required for the 
                      zine to work properly.>
                     ====================================
                                 -=Alt-167=-

    Contact DJE2@Ra.Msstate.Edu or Sol@Sleepy.cc.uTexas.edu for more info
                           (or autoreply this post)



I just u/l'd it to wuarchive.wustl.edu in the pub/MSDOS_UPLOADS section
so you can grab it from there if you like..
From: Ray_Hines@dream.uucp (Ray Hines)
Newsgroups: rec.mag
Subject: Re: New Ezine about Experimental Music Available
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:34:37 GMT
Organization: DreamStates BBS & CyberNet HQ in G'ville, FL   1-904-331-4317

In a message dated Wed 11 Nov 92 14:27, Sol@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (larry Carri
wrote:

 SC>  ---------The First Electronic Magazine Dedicated To Difficult Music--
 SC> ------

 SC>                      Experimental Music-Electronic Forum
 SC>                      ===================================
 SC>                              Issue #1  Out Now
 SC>                      ===================================

I'm interested. :L)

-- Via DLG Pro v0.995

* IF replying by MAIL, please reply to the addresses listed below...
--__-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 / /\     Raymond Hines              Internet: Ray_Hines%dream.uucp@ufl.edu
/_/  \  DreamStates BBS                    or: dream!Ray_Hines@ufl.edu
\ \  /   1-904-331-4317                  UUCP: uflorida!dream!Ray_Hines
 \_\/ FidoNet 1:3601/30  DreamStates: An Amiga supporting Amiga, Mac, IBM!
Newsgroups: rec.mag,alt.zines
From: bfbear@penn.Gwinnett.COM (Penn Collins)
Newsgroups: rec.mag,alt.zines
Subject: Re: Factsheet Five
Date: 6 Nov 92 22:52:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: penn.oPauTB2w164w

Phil.Powell@launchpad.unc.edu (Phil Powell) writes:

> 
> Does anyone know the mailing address for Factsheet Five? I heard they
> moved to Ohio with a new editor and they're on our subscription list
> (Cephas) but the address is old, their old one in New York.  Can someone
> help? We are mailing out copies to subscribers now.
> 

Grrrreat News! I talked to the NEW editor (not the one after Gunderloy) but the
NEW editor....

I do not remember where he is, but he IS on the electronic system known
as the W.E.L.L. (he is supposedly going to e-mail he adress...)

Penn
From: castle@cs.dal.ca (JULIAN GUTHRIE CASTLE)
Newsgroups: rec.mag
Subject: Re: F5-E subscriptions
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:32:18 GMT
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Followup: rec.mag

Hope server doesn't mess up
In article <BxKCCD.DFE@nic.umass.edu>, quilty@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Humberto Humbertoldi) writes:
|> In article <BxEtuC.8Fq@well.sf.ca.us> jerod23@well.sf.ca.us (Jerod Pore) writes:
|> >But, we do have a question for everyone.  Just *how* do we go about doing
|> >this massive e-mailing?  Do we wait until we have an 'issue' of F5-E and 
|> >send out all the review files at once?  Or do we send out the latest files
|> >as they are finished?

|> My "vote" is for F5-E to be published in "issues." Perhaps it would

I vote that reviews that are written for Factsheet Five
be sent out as they are written and at the end of every
month all the reviews are put together in the style of
the old Factsheet Five as the "December issue" or the
"January Issue" (editor should decide if it is a monthly
or bi-weekly schedule)
That's my opinion, I'd like to 'comment' on Humberto's.

|> even be possible to have a somewhat topical theme to these issues...
|> like, the "hardcore issue" or the "sex issue" or whatever.  I know

Interesting idea but I don't think that's the way Factsheet
Five worked.  Maybe if the editor notices "Hey I've got 25
articles and reviews about sex"  then there could be a "sex"
issue.

|> that I get enough email that I would probably lose track of individual
|> reviews if they all got sent separately... even ones that I might be

If a monthly (or biweekly) conglomoration is in action
you won't have to worry about losing individual reviews.

|> 	Also, from the point of view of redistribution, I think issues
|> -- especially topical issues -- would be better.

So new readers would look back at previous issues ??

Yours Sincerely,
	Julian Castle

and...just for the heck of it

//////                             ______
 o-O / o o ahhh! It's Frank the   /      \     come here pimp
  <  /     big brother from hell |  *  *  | -- heh heh heh
  o  /                            \      /
/////                              | || |

(explanation:  Frank Castle is a fictional Marvel Comics
vigilante called The Punisher)(He was in the Punisher Magazine)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.swap,rec.ham-radio.swap,rec.radio.swap
From: fordke@infonode.ingr.com (Keith Ford)
Subject: TANDY 100 Portable Computer
Followup-To: fordke@ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:21:05 GMT

Hey you packeteers, I've got a mint condition TANDY Model 100 Portable
Computer.  It has 32K with built-in scheduler, text editor, telecom,
and address book. It has a 300 baud modem, leatherette case, hard case,
and recharger/power supply.  I also have the accompanying thermal
printer and cable.

I got this as part of a bundle with a XT machine.  If you are
interested, please email your offer soon, as I presently have
4 offers awaiting my response.  Thank you.

-- 
Keith E. Ford     __
Intergraph Corp  /  \ Micro Magic BBS 1:373/12  The Dragon Server
+1 205 730-8614  \__/ sysop@umagic.fidonet.org  server@ingr.com
fordke@ingr.com  [__] 830-2362 HST/V32bis 9600  "Subject: HELP"
-- 
Keith E. Ford     __
Intergraph Corp  /  \ Micro Magic BBS 1:373/12  The Dragon Server
+1 205 730-8614  \__/ sysop@umagic.fidonet.org  server@ingr.com
fordke@ingr.com  [__] 830-2362 HST/V32bis 9600  "Subject: HELP"
Xref: sparky rec.ham-radio:62 rec.radio.amateur.policy:1834 rec.radio.amateur.misc:18477
From: jason@studsys.mscs.mu.edu (Jason Hanson)
Newsgroups: rec.ham-radio,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: VE
Date: 10 Nov 1992 01:28:41 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Department MSCS
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jason@studsys.mscs.mu.edu (Jason Hanson)
NNTP-Posting-Host: studsys.mscs.mu.edu
Originator: jason@studsys.mscs.mu.edu

I just passed my Advanced class license test.  I am interested in becoming a VE
(our local teams are low on numbers); what is the procedure for getting
registered with the various VECs?  
-- 
Jason Hanson         |   915 W. Wisconsin Ave #1010   |     (414) 288-2179
Marquette University |   Milwaukee, WI 53233-2373     |     Ham Radio: N9LEA/AA
--  jason@studsys.mscs.mu.edu       ==+==       n9lea@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na  --
Newsgroups: rec.ham-radio,rec.radio.amateur.misc
From: spark@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Sooyong Park)
Subject: How can I start amateur radio in USA ?
Followup-To: spark@gmuvax2.gmu.edu
Keywords: amateur radio,ham
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Virginia, USA 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:59:38 GMT

Hello netters !

As a foreign student, I would like to know wheather I can enjoy radio
ham.  I was a member of HL0R(sogang university amateur radio club) in
Seoul, Korea during 1982 - 1986.

So, I would like to know what kind of procedure do I need to follow,
any association etc .
Thanks in advance.

====================================================================
Sooyong Park			Rm169, ST2
				School of Information Technology
e-mail:spark@gmuvax2.gmu.edu	George Mason University
voice :(703)993-3684		4400 University Dr.
fax   :(703)993-1521 		Fairfax, VA 22030
====================================================================
-- 
====================================================================
Sooyong Park			Rm169, ST2
				School of Information Technology
e-mail:spark@gmuvax2.gmu.edu	George Mason University
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: A Seat with a View (Re: Snowy Sierra Nevada)
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 20:30:00 GMT

In article <15375@auspex-gw.auspex.com> johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
>Funny.  Everytime I see this subject line I think of that book "How
>to Shit in the Woods".  

8^) Yes, I can think that way, too.  I can think of several outhomes
in nice places: one in Fairbanks, a couple near Tahoe, etc.

>If you really want a seat with a view, if you get a chance to fly over the
>Sierra (or whereever) in a light plane, do it.  A couple of years ago I went
>with four other people in a six passenger plane to Mammoth to go skiing for
>the day.  Flying over the Sierra at a low elevation and being able to suggest
>to the pilot a more scenic route really has it's advantages.

Yes, I have done this aerial recon in the Sierra as well.  Useful for
scouting granite.  Just don't too low.  Some passing backpacker will
probably throw up the occasional rock or Stinger.

And don't read the book or see the film "And I Alone Survived" by L. Elder
before going.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			3 down 1 to go.
Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:8819 rec.climbing:4372
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
Subject: GoreTex bags (was Re: Light & Warm Synthetic Bag: PARADOX?)
From: hugh@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Hugh Grierson)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 00:28:03 GMT
Organization: Fujitsu New Zealand

In article <1992Nov10.020118.1527@reed.edu> rseymour@reed.edu writes:
>
>	If you have the money and will use it, there is no substitute for a  
>Gore-Tex Down sleeping bag. A down bag and bivy can be good, but I find that  
>they almost always get wet...

Myself, I own a Reflex (like GoreTex) down bag, and am trying to decide if it's
worth buying a bivvy bag also, before heading down to Mt Cook NP.  I would
be interested in hearing some real experiences of snow bivies (preferably really
desperate emergency ones) in GoreTex bags with/without a bivvy bag.  What I am
led to believe is that the goretex bag will still leak through the seams
(it isn't seam sealed), but using it with a goretex bivvy bag will result in a
loss of breathability (compared to a non-goretex bag + bivvy bag).  Are either
of these situations actually a problem in practice?

-- 
Hugh Grierson          Fujitsu/ICL New Zealand - Software Development Centre
hugh@nezsdc.icl.co.nz                Speaking for myself only.  See figure 1.
    Quote of the decade: "We're not just talking about unpopulated areas
     of the Southern Hemisphere anymore" [Pres. Bush, on the Ozone hole]
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry