HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: J.R.Wood@lut.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Openings.
Date: 26 Jan 93 09:31:26 GMT
Reply-To: J.R.Wood@lut.ac.uk (Jonathan Wood)
Organization: Loughborough University, UK.

In article <C1D4xM.Br4@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) writes:
>Whenever your opponent attacks, he creates an opening.  Since the best
>martial artist will never attack, there is no opening.
>
        I don't believe that the best Martial Artist will NEVER attack. If 
your in the street and you know a fight is going to take place, and it can't 
be avoided, my belief is to take the advantage as soon as possible i.e attack 
first, with the most hardest lethal attack you can think of, as it may be a 
matter of life and death!

Jon Wood
From: garry@alice.att.com (garry hodgson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Openings.
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:19:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.24723
Reply-To: garry@alice.UUCP ()
Distribution: world
Organization: AT&T, Bell Labs

Jonathan Wood writes:

	I don't believe that the best Martial Artist will NEVER attack.
	If your in the street and you know a fight is going to take place,
	and it can't be avoided, my belief is to take the advantage as
	soon as possible i.e attack first, with the most hardest lethal
	attack you can think of, as it may be a matter of life and death!

This reminded me of a bit of conventional wisdom from my old tournament days
(way back when), regarding deliberate (and illegal) contact.

"If you get hit, hit back.  Sometimes you have to do it first."



-- 
Garry Hodgson			A slow winter day
AT&T Bell Labs			A night like forever
garry@alice.att.com		Sink like a stone
att!alice!garry			Float like a feather
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe)
Subject: Re: Private Acupuncture Discussions
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:25:49 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.125011.25792@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> esh6h@fulton.seas.Virginia.EDU (Erik Scot Hatcher) writes:
>If anyone would like to participate in private
>discussions of acupuncture and how it relates
>to the martial arts, please send a request to
>
>	acupuncture-request@virginia.edu
>
>and I will include you in the discussions.  I
>am keeping this private so only the truly
>interested will be involved.

I think it's probably better to simply carry on the discussions openly.
Those that aren't interested can simply ignore them.  The e-mail thing
was tried several months ago (by Scott Workinger?  I can't remember who)
and kind of fizzled real quickly.

D

-- 
========================================================================
Dave Smythe   N6XLP    dsmythe@netcom.com (also dsmythe@cs.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: How do real fights start?
Organization: National Institutes of Health
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 21:23:27 GMT

mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins) writes:
>He lunged in for the hand attacks. After he smacked the counter I
>was sympathetic and friendly. He calmed right down and
>became friendly too. He was friendly every time I encounterd
>him after that.

Ah, that's what it means to "encounter" the opposition.
--
Richard A. Drury                    National Institutes of Health
drury@helix.nih.gov                 31/B3C27, Bethesda, MD, USA
From: philipm@castle.ed.ac.uk (P MacFarlane)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Fighting against animals?
Date: 27 Jan 93 12:23:57 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <C1FLD2.EoJ@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> shulick@cineret.ucs.indiana.edu writes:
[snip]
>BTW, thanks, everyone, for your replies on "Fights & blackbelt
>confidence."  While that topic still exists, have any of you known any
>"evil" blackbelts?  I.e., blackbelts who use their knowledge and prowess
>in bad ways.. beating people up, etc.  It's a scary thing. :)

Well I 'know' a guy who was (is?) European champion at karate, perhaps
for his age group or something.  His second name is Crombie.  Everyone
knew he was good and lots of other guys ('Dork's) wanted to fight him to
see how good he was.  As a result he is now quite paranoid, and gets
himself into fights and stuff. He was once going to beat me up because
he didn't like the look of me.

I have no MA training BTW.

  :-o

-- 

..............................................................................
    Philip Macfarlane, Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland
                           EMail: Philip@ed.ac.uk
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: SEALs
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:33:55 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

mtambay@mtroyal.ab.ca writes:
>
>No flames intended but I wonder if Ms Ramirez didn't confuse the flak
>jackets of some officers (S.W.A.T?) and the lack of such attire on others 
>with two different organizations.  Does anyone know if the military involves
>itself with police raid these days? 

     I don't think they are yet. However, the high brass it trying to
get the Posse Comitatus Act repealed and use the military in the War
on Some Drugs.

>On another note, should the police wait to be fired upon to establish that
>the gun was loaded.  If someone swings at me outside the dojo, I am not 
>going to assume that he is going to hold back at the last second.

     If a group of armed thugs come bursting into my house, should I wait
to see if they're police before I shoot them?

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@cs.umd.edu  |  "Born to die"   |   Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
                     Keep your values off my family.
      "There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX.
      We don't believe this to be a coincidence."
      -- Jeremy S. Anderson
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ggm31359@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (moy gene gabriel)
Subject: Twin Dragon Kempo
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 06:47:55 GMT

I am currently looking for information on the Twin Dragon
system of kung fu/kempo, which may or may not be a closed
door art or a modern system. Hopefully I will be able to
construct a history of our system which seems to be, so
far, quite elusive. Any help on locating the yudansha or 
its o-sensei would be helpful. Post or send replies to
ggm31359@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu. 
Cheers
Gene Moy
From: Stephen_Y._Chan@transarc.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Evil Black Belts (was : Fighting against animals?)
Date: 27 Jan 93 06:47:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: transarc.ofNfmaH0Bwx2QgXBx_
	<2838@eagle.ukc.ac.uk>
Organization: Sponsored account, Accounts, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

kwp@ukc.ac.uk (K.W.Pang) writes:
> In an old MA magazine, there was an article about a Martial Artist called Dante,
> who practised the art just for the offensive. He was generally black listed by
> all the MA world.
> 

	Is this the "Count Dante" that caused trouble in Chicago
several years back?

> Although there was alot of truths in what he said, his methods were considered
> dangerous and unacceptable.

	As I understand it, he was essentially a street fighter posing
as a formal MA teacher. He liked to trash other people's schools, and
earned lots of enemies that way - didn't he eventually he came to an
unfortunate (but well deserved) ending?

	Stephen
From: wag5@quads.uchicago.edu (john peter wagner)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Openings.
Date: 24 Jan 93 22:05:29 GMT
Reply-To: wag5@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago

>In <C1D4xM.Br4@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) writes:
>
>>Whenever your opponent attacks, he creates an opening.  Since the best
>>martial artist will never attack, there is no opening.
>  You don't really mean this, do you?  If the MAist is just standing like a
>stump, does that mean there are no openings (since s/he isn't attacking)?  I
>don't think so.
>  I'm inclined to think that openings exist wherever a target is not
>perfectly portected.  Since there are seldom (if ever) perfectly protected
>targets, there are always openings.  One's ability to PROTECT those
>openings, by blocking, removing the target from the line of attack, etc. 
>varies according to circumstances and the abilities of the parties involved,
>but the openings are there, nonetheless.
>Eric Sotnak                   |  One life.
>esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu    |  One chance. 

	Hmm. I don't claim to be a 'master,' so I really can't 
speak for the guys who call themselves 'masters,' but I would
think that giving abstract values to concepts such as 'defense'
would not be the way of a master.  It seems to me that basically
a person is given their body and a certain scenario through
which they flow.  The master has 'mastered' the control of
his body and the efficiency with which he organizes his body with
reaction to the scenario at hand.  Thus, an opponent would be
an activated blob of protoplasm which would be to some extent
rational, and the MA artist should be able to sense the state
of that blob of matter, and be able to fulfill his goal given
the scenario, be that escape or termination of the 'life processes'
of the opponent or whatever. 'Defense' seems to me to be like
when chess players give numerical values to certain pieces and,
say, value a certain few squares abstractly.  These players are
not masters.  These players are trying to simplify the problem
so that they can understand the simplified form of it.  Unfortunately,
it is not too tricky for a 'master' to take advantage of this
tendency to simplify.

			John
From: sandyl@soda.berkeley.edu (Sandy Lai)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Jet Lee and Tsui Hark (Was Re: Brandon Lee Movies)
Date: 28 Jan 1993 05:02:05 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu


>Swordsman3 is an awful film.  Looks like the dog ate many pages from the
>script.  It makes little sense.  Sequels seldom live up to their original,
>even Tsui Hak can't avoid that.  From looking at Swordsman3, seems like
>everyone is in it just for the $$$.  I am not putting up too much hope for
>Wong Fae Hung III and IV (2 of them).
>-Dave

Since when is "making sense" criteria for a good Hong Kong film ? Many times the less enese they make the better they are.(IMHO) I think they are more fun and than rational.
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:57:28 CST
From: David James Alexander Hanley <U16244@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Aikido vs. kicks

  Dealing with kicks is not much different from dealing with punches.
Just imagine it as a lower, harder blow.  However, you don't want to block
it.  Blocking kicks is one of the reasons I left karate :).  Evade and
step inside and get a grasp of the leg.  Once you have the leg there is
a whole range of nasty stuff you can do.  Yonkajo and Sihonage to the
ankle come immediately to mind.

  Remember though, aikido is not about fighting.  It is better to learn
to avoid the kick than to stop it.  This is the essence.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty.
He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for
protection to his own" - Thomas Jefferson, 1814

SEND E-MAIL TO : hanley1@earth.eecs.uic.edu
From: btv@omega.oche.de (Fitos Imre)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Greenoch History
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 21:24:50 GMT
Organization: Private UUCP Site, Hungary
NewsSoftware: Rnf 0.73b

shulick@cineret.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:

>In article <1993Jan26.001502.3882@craycos.com>, sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi) says most sayishly:
>>In article <C1Dy8M.3Mr@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> shulick@cineret.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
>>>
>>>Seriously.. what *IS* Greenoch?
>>>
>>
>>Seriously, Greenoch is the second-best martial art in the whole, damned
>>world...
>
>Yes! :)  So what's THE best martial art in the whole, damned world?
>

It it YOURS!

(Honestly, i think it is MINE, but i won't tell it to anyone)

--
(((  You have to forgive me, even I don't know if I'm serious or funny  )))
From: Stephen_Y._Chan@transarc.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Greenoch History
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:57:45 GMT
	<1993Jan25.225307.1@fnalo.fnal.gov>
Organization: Sponsored account, Accounts, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

birmingh@fnalo.fnal.gov (Phillip J. Birmingham) writes:
> In article <1993Jan26.001502.3882@craycos.com>, sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)\
>  writes:
> > Seriously, Greenoch is the second-best martial art in the whole, damned
> > world...
> 
>          Uhh, what's the first? Meik-do?

	How much is it worth to you to find out?

	Stephen
From: rdouglas@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com (Robert Douglas)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:54:16 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Happenstance Weapons
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts

/ hpcuhe:rec.martial-arts / dude@losers.hacktic.nl (Dude) /  6:14 am  Jan 20, 1993 /
In article <1993Jan14.193444.477@pages.com>, Kevin Sven Berg writes:

>IMHO it's not just the (improvised) weapon/tool that's important, though:
>the skills of the person using them are very important too.
>I remember reading an article about somebody who was using a quarter as a 
>weapon against somebody with a nunchaku. He just avoided the chucks, slipped
>in, grabbed the guy's hair, and pushed the quarter into an eyesocket (his
>opponent's eyesocket of course, not his own!). The quarter was an improvised
>weapon, but I doubt if I'll ever use it that way..
>----------

This sounds a little bit bogus to me.  If you've got the person in that
vulnerable of a position, why not just use your thumb.  Much better
penetration.

Rob Douglas ---------------------------------- rdouglas@cup.hp.com
Xref: sparky rec.martial-arts:17509 rec.arts.movies:38524 alt.cult-movies:12152
From: nahilgendorf@honors.uoregon.edu (Nathan Hilgendorf)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,rec.arts.movies,alt.cult-movies
Subject: Re: Brandon Lee Movies
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:43:05 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon Honors College
NNTP-Posting-Host: honors-lab4.uoregon.edu

In article <1993Jan26.151437.22340@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu> jangi@hilbert.coe.northeastern.edu (Shrirang Jangi) writes:

>In article <1993Jan25.002337.16445@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> cs911146@ariel.yorku.ca (JEFF HUM) writes:
>>I noticed that people have failed to mention "Legacy Of Rage"
>>There's a fight between Brandon and 'BOLO'.  However, the movie
>>sucks, as does his other movies including Rapid Fire.  
>>
>>As for Jackie Chan, his recent movies aren't that great either.  He 
>>focuses more on comedy and acrobatic stunts.  A memorable movie by
>>JC is "Dragons Forever", directed and choregraphed by Samo Hung.
>>
>>Anyone like the new "Wong Fei Hung" (Once Upon A Time In China) series
>>by Jet Lee?  
>>

>"Once Upon A Time In China" I and II are some of the most exciting kung fu
>movies I have seen in years. There are a lot of lousy ones out there, even from
>HongKong, but these two certainly stood out from the rest. Part 3 of this
>series is already done and Tsui Hark is shooting Part 4 in Beijing right now,
>although Pt. 4 won't star Jet Lee. And yes, this is much better than the
>recent Jackie Chan movies. His Double Dragon (name?) was awful and "Police
>Story 3" was very disappointing. His new movie "City Hunter" is currently
>showing but I haven't seen it yet. But watch for any film by Tsui Hark for
>creative fight scenes (eg. "Swordsman II"). BTW, all the movies mentioned 
>above are from HongKong, which IMHO makes the best martial arts movies right
>now.

True, Hong Kong does make the best martial arts movies. I saw Swordsman II a 
while ago and thought it was actually pretty poorly done, which surprised 
me, since Once Upon a Time in China I and II were awesome. Oh well...
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: satadd00@nx13.mik.uky.edu (scott andrew taddiken)
Subject: Re: Judo: Which Throw
Organization: University of Kentucky
Distribution: ba
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:54:07 GMT

Brenda writes:

>"Uki comes in to take a normal right grip on your left lapel.  You take a step
>forward on your left foot so that your left leg is alongside his right while
>putting your left arm *over* his.  At the same time you throw your extended
>right arm right under his left armpit and get very close.  To summarise - you
>are very close, your left arm is over his arm and low, the top of your right
>arm is under his armpit and high, and your left leg is alongside his right.
>To complete the throw (this oviously happens all at once) cartwheel your arms,
>left arm down and right arm up at the same time turning your body to the left
>by moving your right foot forward. This effectively picks up Uki and spins him
>backwards, you may fall on him too.  Your left leg acts as a kind of pivot.

At first, I thought you were bringing your right leg through and tripping him
over it as you spin left.  As such, your throw is ashi guruma.

Having thought more, I now believe that you are tripping the opponent over your
driving, pivoting left leg.  I've never seen a throw in which the "action" leg
and "supporting" leg were one and the same.  It sounds implausible, but I'll
give it a try.

Would it be as easy to do tani-otoshi from the position described?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Taddiken, University of Kentucky
From: actize@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: How do muggings start ?
Date: 28 Jan 1993 18:45:38 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: ba
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

At the risk of running off at the mouth too much, I would like to add a comment
re: "how do fights start" & "women's self-defense".  In the San Francisco 
Chronicle, Thursday, January 28, page A13 there is a story describing a 
mugging.  Before any physical contact takes place ...

			[snip]

"put his cash in his wallet, he heard snickering from the young man
and a couple of his companions"
			
			[snip rest of mugging]

When a group of people are "SNICKERING" and you are not aware of the joke, it 
means "YOU WILL BE ATTACKED BY THEM".  The form and timing of attack are not 
fixed.
From: Stephen_Y._Chan@transarc.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Openings.
Date: 25 Jan 93 08:57:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: transarc.cfN3U0b0Bwx2NKlVh6
	<1993Jan23.140710.14496@crash>
Organization: Sponsored account, Accounts, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

jfrost@crash.cts.com (Julian Frost) writes:
> My opinion is (almost) #1 ....
> ... .  I say there are Always openings in martial arts
> techniques. It is up to the martial artist to discover (through
> continuous practise) what these openings are, learn to minimalize them
> and (again, through constant practise), learn how to make them as
> "impossible as possible" to be exploited.

	Well, this is what *I* originally said in email - message is
dated 1/22/93:

Stephen_Y._Chan@transarc.com writes:
> [...] - I didn't say that a better
> martial artist doesn't have openings (though some would argue that
> the _best_ ones don't provide openings), I was saying that better ones
> don't have openings which their opponent can exploit. Sure, my back
> may be exposed, but I keep my front to the opponent - or, I only
> create an opening to counterattack while my opponent is busy on
> their attack.

	So it seems that we have reached an agreement after all.

	Stephen
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ddewar@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (derek.a.dewar)
Subject: Re: Fights and blackbelt confidence
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 11:43:46 GMT

In article <C19zr4.4xA@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
>
>Needless to say, I have this >little "things to do when I'm a blackbelt" 
>list, and Dork is on it. :)

Nah, this is wrong. It's a very dangerous attitude to take. If and when you
obtain your dan grade, I hope you won't have the same attitude.

>after I had gone through years of training and had become a blackbelt,
>I'd feel pretty good about myself and sure as hell wouldn't hesitate to
>talk back to someone who was giving me a hard time.  Now I'm just a
>white belt, and when someone starts hassling me, I remain unobtrusive
>and just take it, 

Your attitude about being "unobtrusive" is one you should maintain through
out your training. I think you're pre-occupied with belts and their colour.
You're also underestimating violence. THis isn't some sort of game, as 
portrayed by the movies. Fights are real, and people always get hurt, not to
mention legalities involved, and possible prosecution, and conviction.

>As our instructor said, avoid a fight at all costs, but if
>you have to fight, do what you must.  

I would listen to your instructor more. He's not saying "if anyone calls you
names, then kick their arse..." He's saying if you are in REAL danger, and
there is no other way, then that is the time to fight. No offense here, but
until you get rid of your ego problem you won't think any differently. 
People calling you names don't really hurt you, do they ? They just do that 
to make themselves feel better...and as for "dork", well, leave him be. One
day he'll pick on someone who'll give him a bloody good doing, and he'll 
maybe change his attitude then. Right now, he doesn't really know what 
violence is..

Keep training, keep unobtrusive, and keep smart. You know it makes sense.

All the best

Del Boy.

--
Derek A. Dewar
AT&T Network Systems UK Ltd.
Wiltshire , UK.

derek.a.dewar@att.com
ddewar@ihlpb.att.com


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Eric Sotnak)
Subject: Re: Openings.
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 20:56:20 GMT

In <C1D4xM.Br4@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) writes:

>Whenever your opponent attacks, he creates an opening.  Since the best
>martial artist will never attack, there is no opening.

  You don't really mean this, do you?  If the MAist is just standing like a
stump, does that mean there are no openings (since s/he isn't attacking)?  I
don't think so.

  I'm inclined to think that openings exist wherever a target is not
perfectly portected.  Since there are seldom (if ever) perfectly protected
targets, there are always openings.  One's ability to PROTECT those
openings, by blocking, removing the target from the line of attack, etc. 
varies according to circumstances and the abilities of the parties involved,
but the openings are there, nonetheless.

  My $.00000002 worth.

--
********************************************************************
Eric Sotnak                   |  One life.
esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu    |  One chance.
From: alph@wsinfo01.win.tue.nl (G.J.W. Hagenaars)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Greenoch History
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:36:17 GMT
Reply-To: alph@win.tue.nl

shulick@cineret.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:

>Seriously.. what *IS* Greenoch?

People who practice Greenoch form a very secret society. It's so secret
that you will have a lot of trouble finding them.  I've heard that the
initiating rites are so dreadfull, only half of the current
practitioners have experienced it.

If, however, by some ill chance, you come across one of them, don't get
him angry. Have you ever heard `looks that kill'? Guess where that
comes from.

Gert-Jan `\Alph' Hagenaars
alph@win.tue.nl
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: arh16@cus.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Hamilton)
Subject: Wing Chun contacts & boxers
Organization: U of Cambridge, England
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 18:37:29 GMT

Two requests:
i)      I am trying to get in touch with a Wing Chun school, that I think is
based in California. I'd rather not put the school name on the net, so if
people out there know of Wing Chun schools, I'd be grateful if you could get in
touch via email.
ii)     I'd like to correspond with any Wing Chun practitioners, or boxers (in
the Western sense); I practised for a copule of years a few years ago, but had
to quit.

My email address is:
        arh16@cus.cam.ac.uk