HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: scylax!tiglath@uunet.UU.NET
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AMT .380, Colt Mustang, or other
Date: 13 Nov 92 12:29:27 GMT
Organization: ScylaxCorp

gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu writes:

###  Now, I have a habit to look at police officers' guns to note what
###  he or she chose.  It is amazing how many of them chose to carry
###  Glocks.   I guess than when you are expecting trouble you want
###  the state of the art on your side and no less.  
##
##I guess that when your issue weapon is mandated by a PD bureaucrat
##with the least-common-denominator officer in mind, that weapon will
##have training wheels.

#Now, now, be fair.  I would say that the Glock has even less "training
#wheels" than the Colt 1911, what with it not having a manual safety, or
#grip safety.  In fact, for all practical shooting purposes the thing
#doesn't really have a safety at all.  I am amazed they even let police
#carry it.  I will also have to say that if I were buying a pistol (one
#that costs real money - ie more than $250 or so) I would probably choose
#the Glock.  A friend of mine has one and it is very nice.  It is certainly
#much nicer to shoot than the Colts I fired while in the military (the
#Berettas were just becoming common and there were still quite a few of
#the 1911's around).

##(I know, I know, that was *obvious* flamebait, and I walked right into
## it.  s/he couldn't possibly have actually meant that last
## paragraph...)

#Some people probably think the police really do have state of the art
#weapons for the most part.  While they are becoming better armed, they
#still aren't carrying what I would want if there was a significant threat
#of urban combat in my life (ie something along the lines of an Uzi or H&K
#MP5 - a full auto SMG).  s/he may have made the statement from honest
#ignorance.  That said, police these days DO seem to be carrying better pistols


s/he made the statement because the Glocks seen on police officers
were no different from the one I chose out of all that the market has
to offer.  A Glock constitutes the same advanced technology for me as 
it does for police officers who carry it.  It is simply not true that 
police officers carry somewhat inadequate guns chosen by a bureaucrats.
Police agencies have to watch what they spend but that it is not
their first priority, if it was they would be carrying brazilian
guns or the like.   Some departments have chosen SIGs and Glocks
which are some of the costliest and most advanced guns.  Besides, I
know police officers who, within reason, get to choose their guns.

In Mediterranean countries police carry SMG.  They do not have to
contend with the litigious society our police has to deal with.
We cannot blame them for that.  Guns spraying 900 bullets per minute
conjures up scenarios beyond what police chiefs can suffer.  

We, collectively, are to blame for that.  The national burden of
frequent, easy litigation puts, police, industry and us all at 
disadvantage with the rest of the world.
From: bellcore!bae.bae.bellcore.com!wind@uunet.UU.NET (Wind Chen)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: rec.guns submission
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:25:29 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research

In article <9211120128.utk20091@CISNCC.intel.com>, RRUBERT@CISNCC.intel.com writes:
|> 
|> #mcaldwel@netcom.com (Michael Caldwell)
|> #I saw somebody in the desert place a propane bottle in a puddle of gas.  He
|> #then lit the gas on fire, backed up about 50 yards, and shot it with a rifle.
|> #Michael
|> 
|> 
|> While I would never do such a thing, I have heard of those who do. I am told 
|> that the hot plan (hah) is to tape the road flare to the propane bottle and 
|> light it. Stand back 15 to 20 yards and fire away. The best results are at 
|> night. After 10-12 of these events, the only moment of danger was when the 
|> bottle got some flight time (about 20 yrds). The bottles always had only bullet
|> holes, no explosive tearing. I think the propane burns only after
|> it escapes the bottle.
|> 
|> 			Rod Rubert

There are three elements to "FIRE", heat, O2 and fuel.  The bullet
might set the fire up, O2 is in the air and fuel is in the propane
bottle.  If you think twice, the presure inside the propane bottle
is blowing the gas out from the bullet hole, push the bottle around
if the bottle is not fixed on something and cool down the heat at
the same time - remember how you cool down thing with wind? 

Fireball happen when there are enough gas "stay" around the bottle,
mixed with air (O2) and one bullet hit the bottle at the right time
to set the fire.  Explosion is even harder, there has to be enough
gas around (inside the bottle and outside), which set the fire and
generates enough presure - has to be higher than the bottle build
for, then, brooom!

Enjoy...
__________________________________________________________________
Wind Y. Chen                   |      eMail: wind@bae.bellcore.com
_______________________________|__________________________________
From: rtaraz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: fun things to shoot at
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:57:40 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280


After going to an indoor range for many times, I would like to take my
Taurus 92 out side for a while.  I like to know what are some fun
things to shoot at. (i.e.  A television tube should be alot of fun)

rtaraz
From: TXK107@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Colt Sporter mags
Date: 13 Nov 92 12:29:57 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

I have had good luck with new surplus USGI metal magazines. I made the purchase
from Tom Forrest in California. The original USGI venders for these 30 rounders
Cooper Industries, O-Kay industries, Adventure Line, and Colt. I also ordered
used USGI 20 rounders for the AR-15 and M1-A and they were very very used. An
interesting fact, When I purchased my new H-BAR it came direct from the factory
with 20 round magazines that had Colt floor plates but O-Kay logo stamped in th
e interior. This leads me to believe that O-Kay is the original vender for Colt
magazines.

                                           Terry Kuzma
                                           NRA Life Member
                                           Penn State University
                                           Electrical Engineering
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Chinese steel-core 7.62x39? Re: Armor Piercing rounds
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:58:03 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <9211041731.aa29095@claudius.pica.army.mil> erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:

#This is moot, however. The intent was to ban something; one is enough for
#that. There was even a scare about the cheap steel-core Chinese 7.62x39
#being banned when a pistol in that chambering came out.

The local gun store sells Chinese 7.62x39 by the large crate (two zinc
cans inside).  How do I know if it is, or isn't, steel-core?  Is it 
all steel core?  (and here I thought it would all be plain lead core
unless clearly marked ...) 

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
From: cash@convex.com (Peter Cash)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Neck sizing
Date: 11 Nov 92 15:49:00 GMT
Organization: The Instrumentality

Well, I'm getting set up to reload for my 6.5 Swedish Mauser, and I have a
couple of questions. First of all, what's the consensus out there on neck
sizing vs. full length sizing? Can I get away just with neck sizing, or
will I have to resize full length every once in a while? Or should I forget
about neck sizing?

Also, what dies should I get if I neck size? Do neck sizing dies have
decappers built in, or do I need a separate decapper die? 

The best deal for the neck sizing dies appears to be Redding ($14 for the
one die in the Lock Stock & Barrel catalog). Anybody know of a better deal?

By the way, I'd like to express my thanks to the moderator and the members
of this group. Not only is reading the articles fun, but I'm grateful for
all the helpful and supportive advice I receive whenever I ask a question.
Would that all the net were like rec.guns!


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             |      Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist.     |
Peter Cash   |       (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein)      |cash@convex.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: rec.guns submission
Date: 8 Nov 92 23:05:45 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <1992Nov6.170355.7417@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
##I would bet that a laser weapon would be impulse and deliver a larger
##amount of energy. I would further bet that when the beam hit it would 
##vaporize a chunk of meat that would damage even more. It would be the ultimate
##low momentum/high energy weapon.

#I suspect that radiation weapons will never obsolete firearms, 
#not in 200 years or 500.    How much electricity would it take
#to run a microwave or lazer projector that could rival a shotgun
#or pistol in effectiveness of stopping? 

Much less than you would think: 500 ft-lbs (a reasonable pistol
energy) is about 690 J or 0.2 watt-hours of energy. Currently
available capacitors can hold this much energy in a ~0.5 lb capacitor.
Of course, lasers are very inefficient, so for a single shot at
But then, that's with current technology: Alot of military R&D
money has been going into capacitor technology in recent years, 
so these weights are probably much lower for current DARPA
technology...

#Could a standard 
#wall plug supply it today?  I doubt it could ever be had from a
#portable device in any case, unless electricity storage technology
#changes more than I can imagine.

A standard wall plug could recharge that sort of capacitor in a 
few seconds. As a portable device, we certainly have a long way to
go before lasers would be practicle. But certainly much less the
200 years you suggest. Possibly, only a few decades.

(By the way, I once worked out the numbers for a rail gun and made
a few proof-of-concept tests. With ~20 lbs of capacitors and batteries,
you could make a air-gun level (I think I figured 50 ft-lbs and a
.18 cal BB) rail gun, firing a few hunderd shots off the batteries
at ~1 shot per 2 seconds. Rail errosion would be the big show
stopper: If you used a steel rail, you'd have to replace it every 
few hundred shots...)

                                                    Frank Crary
                                                    CU Boulder
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Introducing New Shooters to the Sport (Part II)
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:24:09 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <1992Nov4.212717.17345@igor.tamri.com> donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin) writes:
#Both displayed admirable gun safety, the only near glitch being her reaction
#to the first shot she made with the .22:  she stumbled back in astonishment
#and the barrel started coming around towards me.  Fortunately, I was standing
#quite close and was able to keep the pistol pointed downrange.

It's probably wise to start the beginner off with only a single shot
loaded/loadable in the gun/magazine.  And of course the first targets
should be quite near so they at least have a fair chance of hitting
the paper.
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock "Safe Action" v. Cocked & Locked M1911
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:25:24 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <22353@drutx.ATT.COM> ljb@parkcity.dr.att.com (BLO54620-BonhamLJ(DR2194)240) writes:
#I find the thumb catch very reassuring because it provides visual and
#tactile verification of the weapon's condition while the Glock's only indication
#is a minute change in trigger position.  I personally would not want to fumble
#around with the trigger on a cocked Glock in the dark!  The Glock is essentially
#a cocked and UNLOCKED weapon which requires no more pressure to release the
#trigger than a stock Colt 1911, assuming the NYCPD trigger spring has not been
#installed in the Austrian pistol.

This is all wrong!  If the "indication" you want is whether or not a round
is chambered, you can feel the extractor.  An unloaded Glock normally will
have the trigger in the pulled position, which is RADICALLY different from
the normal ready position.  I don't think you can tell whether there is a
round in the chamber from the trigger position.  An M1911A1 is similar in
these respects.

To fire a Glock semiautomatic pistol requires a considerably more
deliberate trigger pull than to release the hammer on a cocked M1911A1.
The triggering threshold pressure is not nearly as important as the
length of the pull before hammer/striker drop, and in this respect the
M1911A1 is definitely more "touchy".

#Several Police officers whom I've talked to report that their departments
#have experienced an increase in accidental discharges since adopting or
#allowing Glocks (reason why NYCPD went with the heavier trigger).

The few incidents I have heard of were caused by holstering with the
finger on the trigger.  That is not a Glock design problem..

#...  However let's remember that both the
#M1911 and Glock were designed as Army battlefield weapons and all services
#which issue or issued them require their personnel to carry them uncocked
#with chamber empty, so lets not kid ourselves, both pieces carried chambered
#and cocked are in violation of the "safest" carry modes recommended by the
#manufacturer.  

A large number of U.S. law enforcement departments have either adopted or
authorized Glock pistols for duty use, and they are normally carried with
a round chambered.

Glock strikers are "cocked" as the trigger is pulled.  The action is
radically unlike the M1911A1 and an attempt to use the same terminology
when comparing them is misleading at best.

I have nothing against any good firearm design or M1911A1 variants, but
cocked-and-locked M1911A1 doesn't strike me as inherently safer than
chambered Glock.  There are handgun experts who don't recommend M1911A1
for the inexperienced gun handler, for seafty reasons.  Personally I
don't want to see anyone handling a weapon if he isn't familiar with
its correct operation to the point of nearly instinctive safe handling.
From: rtaraz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Psychology in Defense
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:52:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: bigwpi.RTARAZ.92Nov9125730
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280

#>>>> On 8 Nov 92 13:26:36 GMT, fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) said:


fcrary> The story might be getting aroung a bit, but no it isn't a
fcrary> friend of a friend or an urban ledgend: It happened to a real,
fcrary> actual, close friend of mine... I have heard several, similar
fcrary> friend of friend stories like this, however. I know this knid
fcrary> of story isn't really good evidence, however: Some people have
fcrary> suggested that a criminal might be _encouraged_ by a shotgun
fcrary> being racked (on the grounds that the user is an idiot who
fcrary> hadn't bothered to load his gun until now.) Are there _any_
fcrary> reported cases of such a thing?  

I think racking a shotgun or an auto will put only one though in the
other guy/gal's head: THE GUN IS NOW LOADED.  on the other hand, not
racking it will have the intruder in doubt that if the gun is loaded
and might make him/her do something stupid!  
Just dont rack it more than once! like they do in some stupid movies.
If you rack it twice, it proves that the gun is empty or you dont have
the guts to shoot.

Its all in the attitude.
From: davidst@microsoft.com (David Steckler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Little-known membership benefits of the NRA
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:53:15 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <q0PwTB1w164w@upchrch.UUCP> upchrch!joel@peora.sdc.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch  ) writes:
#
#I've got my sticker, but I never put it on my car for two reasons. The
#first is that I think window and bumper sticker are tacky. The second is
#that I figure that it's more likely that someone will break into my car
#if they think they might find some guns and the NRA sticker might be all
#the hint they need to look. For the same reason I don't like to leave
#anything visible in the passenger compartment when my car is parked.
#

On a similar note, my brother, who works as a bartender in downtown Seattle,
has had his car broken into three times in the last year. The first two times
the theifs rummaged around and generally made a mess looking for valuable 
stuff. The third time was shortly after he applied for his concealed
weapon permit. He had left the receipt for the application folded in the
glove box. When he got to his car that night and found the window broken
again (he now just keeps a peice of laminated cardboard instead so if someone
wants to get in, they can just reach through) he expected to find the inside
of the car and trunk a mess again. Instead he found the glove box opened
and the unfolded receipt on the seat. Nothing else was touched.

He now leaves the receipt on the passenger seat while he's at work. :)

	...Dave
From: msn@shark.cis.ufl.edu (Mike 'HK G3ZF Full-Auto' Newsome)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Title II Question.
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:56:18 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Florida CIS Dept.


# rjm@rjmeyer.wsp (Bob Meyer)
#
# Re: Class III again
# 
# What about the legal but unregistered pre-1981 auto-sears
# floating around? Is there a legal way to convert a semi auto
# rifle into full auto using these?
#

	As a machinegun owner and reasonably knowlegeable individual
	with regards to Title II weapons, let me explain this...


	1.  The sears are legal because they ARE UNregistered.

	    Legal to OWN, if you DON'T own a AR-15 type weapon.
	    It is ILLEGAL to own/possess this sear while
	    owning/possessing an AR-15 type weapon.

	2. As these sears are UNREGISTERED and were not registered
	   before May 19th 1986, they may NEVER be registered EVER.

	3. Is there a way to convert a semi-auto rifle to full auto
	   by using these.

		YES.  A Class II Manufacturer may use these sears
		to create a POST-86 Machinegun, BUT  this weapon
		may only be purchased by a law enforcement agency,
		or any government agency, or be exported.  It may
		NOT be owned by a private individual..EVER.
	

	Just because its legal to own does not imply its legal to use. 

			Dooka yoroshiku onegaishimasu,
        ________                                    __  __  ______
       /  ____//__      msn@reef.cis.ufl.edu       / / / / / ____/
         /  //  //      Michael S. Newsome        / / / / / /__
          GUNDAM        3632 NW 46th Pl.         / / / / / ___/
        //  //          Gainesville, Fl.        / /_/ / / /
      //__//___/        32605-1046.            /_____/ /_/
        //______/       U.S.A.            The University of Florida
                                                  Alumnus

          Watashino hatano motoni watashiwa jiyuuni ikiru
From: C96@vm.urz.Uni-Heidelberg.de (Alexander EICHENER)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What was the Steyr GB?
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:25:04 GMT
Organization: University of Heidelberg, Germany

In article <9211051326.aa12174@claudius.pica.army.mil>
erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:

#Stephen D. Grant writes:
##wasn't that the big overly square boat-anchor looking thing?
##9mm pistol that was THE ugliest thing i have ever seen.
##am i thinking of the wrong thing here?

#The Steyr GB is a 9mm pistol that is now out of production. It's about
#the size of a Glock 20/21, and somewhat resembles the Jericho. The
#magazine capacity is 18 rounds, locking was gas-delayed-blowback like
#The HK P7s, and tritium night sights were standard.

One might wish to add that there also was a USA licensed version, called
the L.E.S. 18 and made by Rogak. I remember having read that it
suffered from more problems than the original.

#It's not the prettiest of the wondernines, but then it's still a lot
#better looking than some relatively common and really grotesque handgun
#I keep seeing in the gun rags. I think they call it the "Government
#Model" or "1911" or some such. Really stupid looking, and fires the
#ridiculous .45 cartridge.

Yep. As always, Ed's wise words may serve us as a guidepost. In addition,
I think you have mistaken the gun. What you *mean* is either the
HK VP 70, or the Glock, or the Desert Eagle.

I have handled the Steyr GB myself. It was a bit to large for my hands
and felt uncomfortable as far as balance was concerned, but didn't
resemble your bileful description in any way.

Greetings, Alexander Eichener
<c96@vm.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
From: booth@mdd.comm.mot.com (Greg Booth)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Colt Sporter mags
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:37:43 GMT
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC

In <199211120454.AA03616@cherokee.advtech.uswest.com> kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin) writes:

#In article <9211111515.aa29400@s.s.ms.uky.edu> eric@ms.uky.edu (Eric H. Herrin II) writes:
##Well, I just picked up a Colt Sporter Competition HBAR for a great price, but
##the two mags it came with are 5 round (20 round with a filler).  Anybody
##have any recommendations about where to pick up some 20rd+ mags?  I'm not
##looking for junk; I'd prefer a very well-made 3rd party or original colt.

#Please post the response you receive.

#I use a 30rd mag. made by THERMOLD. Even though it is made of plastic,
#it appears to be fairly well made. It is more expensive than other
#mags that I've seen; I paid $16 for it. I was told that the Canadian
#military uses it as their standard M16 mags. I've shot 100 rounds using
#this particular mag. and didn't have any problems with it.
#Anyone has experiences with this THERMOLD mag too?

The word from my brother, who is the Duke of Connaughts Own Rifles
militia unit in Vancouver, is that the plastic mags suck, the lips wear out
quickly and cause jams. He and most of his colleagues, buy
surplus metal M16 mags, clean em and use those.

The plastic mags are apparently intended as a 1-use item.


-- 
Greg Booth BSc                    |     /_____________________________
BCAA-PCDHF-BCWF-NFA-NRA-IPSC-BCFSS|@====|_____________________________>
Motorola Mobile Data Division     |     \
booth@mdd.comm.mot.com cgb003@email.comm.mot.com
From: wcheman@afit.af.mil
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Baby Excam Slide
Date: 7 Nov 92 16:05:31 GMT

I need a slide for my Tanarmi model BTA90- a "baby" Excam 9mm.  The locking
lugs on mine wore out about two years ago.  I have spoken to a number of gun
parts dealers and with European American Armory (that took over after Excam
went out of business) without success.  I like the fit of this gun and would
like to make it functional again; any help or leads would be appreciated.  I
have access to a shop with an FFL, so shipping to me would not be a problem.
E-mail wcheman@afit.af.mil or call 513-879-1746.
From: btm@well.sf.ca.us (Brian Millin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Dot Site for a GP100
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:23:17 GMT
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link

I use a ProPoint II. It has worked very well on several different
pistols, but recently I did experience trouble with the dot going out and
fading while shooting 180 grain loads in my 586. Maybe too much recoil. ON
my Buckmark Target, I tried a comparison between the dot and a 4x EER scope
with standard reticle. Group size was the same. The only problem is that
at extended ranges the dot can obscure your target. Say a clay pigeon at
100 yards - you cannot see it behind the dot. With the large dot models
that effect would be much worse.

The Tasco mounts to any weaver base. I don't know about the aimpoint.

Brian Millin - Babysitting at home