HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Subject: Re: Liberty (was something relevant about CO-2 long ago...)
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 11:38:55 GMT

In article <BzL08y.G9D@demon.co.uk> gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
>In article <BzKrGE.55r@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> dbshapco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Brad Shapcott) writes:
>:*But*, since this is mostly IOHO (In Our Humble Opinions), has anyone ever
>:seen a study on the effect of language on attitude?  It would be interesting
>:to see.
>
>Ask any linguistics department.  Or sci.lang.  As far as a know, the theory
>that language influences behaviour has been totally discredited.  I think
>its called the Whorf Hyothesis or something like that.  Most of the
>linguists I know argue forcibly that language adapts to the needs and
>environment of its users, not vice-versa.

(1) Germany, 1935-194?. Ever read German w.r.t. foreigners (i.e.
Jews)?  The language, indeed, quickly adapted to the needs of its
users, to blame and denigrate 'foreigners'. Now, was this because people
all over Germany spontaneously understood that Jews were 'dirty'? Or
was it because someone manufactured propaganda. Do you think attitudes
changed? 1000 word essay. Reply in complete sentences.

(2) Do we 'need' gender neutral language? Is our questioning based on
agenda or 'need'. Do women 'need' language which acknowledges their
existence today, as opposed to when they were merely chattel (0-1917).
Qualify your responses.

(3) What does behavior have to do with any of this?

-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: More words stuff
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 02:07:04 +0000

	I shan't even begin to discuss etymology of "hysterical".  But
	thanks for pointing it out - I'd been so stunned about "denigrate"
	that I hadn't noticed "hysterical".  Eeek.

You know the old Duke of Edinburgh joke, Kay?

   "Excuse me miss, are you feeling hysterical?"
   "Naw, he's feeling mine!"

G
(Sorry, I'd laugh but I've just had a hystericalectomy)
From: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Understanding
Date: 23 Dec 92 23:49:18
Organization: Natural Language Incorporated
	<MUFFY.92Dec22111050@remarque.berkeley.edu>
	<92359.003759SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
	<1hbkouINNo76@agate.berkeley.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu's message of 24 Dec 1992 06:19:10 GMT

In article <1hbkouINNo76@agate.berkeley.edu> mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd) writes:
>Graydon <SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>>
>>And, Muffy, why *do* you regard yourself as bi, rather than say, as
>>a person with catholic tastes in sex partners?  (honestly curious).

>*splutter*  OK, I'm not Muffy (I can't wear that black stretchy
>non-dress *nearly* as well as she can), but *splutter* all the same.

Hee hee...at least you can get into it, which is only true of some of my
dresses.  Wait until you see the black dress covered in ankhs that I'm
wearing for New Year's Eve!

>I
>have no idea what that question is supposed to mean.  I, for one, would
>happily respond "I'm both".

I feel pretty much the same way as Mike, here.  I don't think I
understand the question.  However, I wouldn't really say that I'm
"both".  I don't care about the sex of my partners; in our society, that
is called "bisexual," so that's the word I'm using.  "Catholic" suggests
more of a lack of discrimination, or, that I like *everything* in my sex
partners.  That is certainly not the case.  I like them to be
intelligent, I like them to be feminists (*grin*), I have all sorts of
preferences, and all sorts of dislikes.  I'm "catholic" only in the
matter of gender, and that is not even certain, as I do not know that I
have met or like all the possible genders, whatever they may be.

To answer your question more simply, I do not have interest in all
people as lovers, so "catholic" is inappropriate.

So, how about you, Graydon?  Are you bisexual?  Catholic in your tastes
in sex partners?  Or what?  And why?

Muffy
--

Muffy Barkocy                      | ~Can you tell me how much bleeding/it
muffy@mica.berkeley.edu            |  takes to fill a word with meaning and/
"amorous inclinations"? Aha! I'm   |  how much how much death it takes/to give
not "not straight," I'm *inclined*.|  a slogan breath?~ - Bruce Cockburn
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: Liberty (was something relevant about CO-2 long ago...)
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:11:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.180544.23713@cbnews.cb.att.com> eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (Piglet) writes:
>In article <BznvL2.F8n@cck.coventry.ac.uk> idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>>In article <BznGFH.KBq@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>>>hysterical, incredibly myopic media) it wouldn't invalidate my quote.
>>>They teach us something about grammar, at least.
>>
>>Tim, Tim; glass houses, dear friend.  "A hysterical... media"?
>
>Kay, Kay, Kay; you're sweet, you're adorable, and you're wrong.

Oh, spank me, spank me... and I'm positively glowing with the
"sweet and adorable".  Perhaps a small Pigleting episode in my
Great US Tour?  (When I can work out where Att is, that is :))

>"Media" is a collective noun, which may be referenced in the
>singular _or_ the plural, depending on context...

Media *are not* a collective noun (or, at least they shouldn't be).

>Piglet, shameless grammar snob

Kay, prescriptivist Bad Man and pedantophiliac :)

				Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Subject: Re: Attack of the Seperatists
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:48:35 GMT

In <1992Dec18.163648.28487@bcrka451.bnr.ca>
bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth) writes:
>Ciaran McHale wrote:
>>Brad Booth:
>>>The politics of oppression is not to segregate but to unify those who
>>>are oppressed and those who support them.
>> 
>>*Your* politics of oppression may be as simplistic as you describe
>>above, but it does not necessariarly follow that others think
>>similarly.
>
>Unless otherwise noted, things that I type are my opinions or comments.

I apologise. I somehow thought that... No, I don't know what I was
thinking at the time.

Once again, apologies.


Ciaran.
-- 
---- Ciaran McHale (cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie)
\bi/ Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.
 \/  Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-6772204
From: rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Het/bifems & bi/gay men
Date: 30 Dec 1992 21:19:08 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <92364.174655U23700@uicvm.uic.edu> <U23700@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
->as to whether or not hetero women think of bi-triangles as m-f-m,
->a close female friend i've known for a long time has said she always
->thought of this (m-f-m and all permutations possible).
[...]
->movement, sexual revolution, etc., have spawned changes in the types
->of fantasies women now allow themselves to have. my friend, who thought
->she must be rather odd when not finding her m-f-m fantasies in the first
->2 books, was exultant to find that other women now have these kinds of
->fantasies, and that she was not the only 'weird' het female who had
->these fantasies.

*laugh* Just when I was about to say something someone says it better than
me ...

Yes, one of the things I'm still getting used to (and having quite a bit of
fun doing so) is the "Oooh, you're queer? You know, I've always had this
fantasy of two men in bed together ... " *grin*.  I've seen this both from
straight and bi women ; never asked a lesbian, but it would be interesting
to find out if it's common in that sector too :).

Now, the only question I've got to consider is whether to be offended by
this (which I'm not yet) or find it as amusing as I still do find it :).  

Naah ... I think I'll enjoy it while it lasts :).

-roy


-- 
Roy S. Rapoport     internet: rsr@soda.berkeley.edu      bitnet: rsrsoda@ucbocf
anonymous mail: wi.5836@n7kbt.rain.com        androphile, gynophile, kerryphile
"What I used to think is me / is just a faded memory." -NIN
DISCLAIMER:  I speak for the University of California at Berkeley.  Rrrright.
From: kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: YES!  It works!!!
Date: 28 Dec 1992 16:11:45 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center and Reptile Farm
NNTP-Posting-Host: grissom.larc.nasa.gov

In article <3F78B325E02004E2@TUDOBM.TUDELFT.NL> C.G.C.vanDijk@IO.TUDelft.NL writes:
>> From: mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd)
>> > I wear my hair like Jesus wore it (Halleluja I adore it).
>>
>> he ...  makes silly rhymes.
>
>This was a quote too, I'm afraid :-), from JC Superstar.  Even Elf quotes
>from there.  (If you are getting tired Elf, let me wish you strength;
>at least you converted me!)

No, it's a quote from Hair, of course.

I wear my hair like Jesus wore it,
Halleluja, I adore it.
Mary, she loved her son,
Why don't my parents love me?
Hair, hair, hair, hair
Blow it,
Show it,
Long as I can grow it,
My hair.
--scott

   (who has taste in music such that they have finally given him his
    own office so as not to offend anyone else)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Nigel... your email aint working!
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 06:45:12 GMT

In article <1992Dec25.101834.28381@cltr.uq.OZ.AU> yal@lingua.cltr.uq.OZ.AU (Yvette Lian) writes:
:Bobby Brown is a black rap/dance singer person.  I don't like his music
:very much.  I can't really tell you all that much more about him because I
:try to ignore his stuff as much as possible.

Aha!  So that's who the Frank Zappa song is about...

I was never sure about that album.  Some very dodgy lyrics...

G
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss,news.answers
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Subject: Advertising
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 12:51:43 GMT

Something in the way that several have mentioned finding out about
motss, the accidental cross-posting, makes me wonder: why not an
intentional direct posting.

I'm sure it will infuriate everyone, but make a posting: 

Information; For the readers of group <X>, the regulars of soc.motss
(a lesbian, gay, and bisexual social forum) and soc.bi (a bisexual
social and political forum) wish everyone across the net a Happy New
Year.

Post this to groups like comp.lang.c, comp.unix.wizards,
comp.unix.questions, comp.music, comp.unix.programmer,
comp.unix.internals, comp.unix.misc, comp.windows.x, gomcp.graphics,
comp.lang.c++, sci.med, sci.electronics, one of the clari.* discussion
groups, and so on.

-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Re: Liberty (was something relevant about CO-2 long ago...)
Organization: People's Front of Judea
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 02:02:29 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.224309.16295@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>
>They most certainly did NOT say that, you fatuous, clueless moron.
>Now fuck off and keep your whining out of soc.motss.
>
>And don't let the door hit you on your way out.

What, you're not going to call Mr. Weiss "rude" and "abusive" as
well?

Tsk, tsk, tsk. So much for a friendly and affirming space...
-- 
Andrew Solovay    
                "I know that, in America and under capitalism,
                 I am the freest woman in history."
                                --- Camille Paglia
From: arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Angus H Rodgers)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Understanding
Date: 22 Dec 92 17:32:46 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London

In <92357.110706SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Graydon <SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:

>If I may follow up Stella's nifty posting with a little tiny instance of
>tactical advice; the word 'feminist' tends to make most men defensive.
                                                             ^^^^^^^^^
I think you mean "offensive". :-)

"Defensive? Defensive like Ghengis Khan." (John Cleese.)
--
Gus Rodgers,  Dept. of Computer Science, |  [Profound thought for 1993]
Queen Mary & Westfield College, Mile End |     "Philishave is about
Road, London, England.   +44 71 975 5241 |      personal choice" 
E-mail (JANET):   arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk |             -- TV advert
From: williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Posting etiquette (was Re: Tantra, Power Exchange, and Reconciliation)
Date: 28 Dec 1992 16:53:32 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
Reply-To: williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (Dances with Drums)
NNTP-Posting-Host: athena

In article <1992Dec28.005328.10630@thelema.uucp> STella@thelema.uucp (STella) writes:
>In article <1992Dec26.061414.4511@u.washington.edu> cyberoid@stein.u.washington.edu (Robert Jacobson) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec25.055511.25377@thelema.uucp> STella@thelema.uucp
>>(STella) writes:
>>>Note to the asbers seeing this thread for the first time: I've set
>>>followups back to soc.bi by default, but I wanted to give y'all a
>>>whistle, in case anyone wants to join the thread in soc.bi.
>
>>Stella, thanks for extending the discussion to a.s.b., but next time
>>let me know your intentions first...it's netiquette.
>
>Sanity check from some old netters?  I've been on the net since (JUST)
>before net.motss was newgrouped, and this is a point of "netiquette" I
>have NEVER encountered before.  And I shift threads to appropriate
>newsgroups all the time --
----
	If you xposted to to a.s.b in addition to s.b, that's fair game
w/o notice, but if you switch it to asb and remove sb w/o notice, then
you could prevent anyone in the chain from following it -- that would
be 'bad'.

	If I am directing my followups to a different place than my posting,
then I would suppose it would depend on circumstances -- like being
in the middle of a flamewar and directing followups to alt.flame, or
posting an informational message and directing followups to email -- but
if it is a generic conversation, I would think it 'odd' to direct followups
to a different place than my post.  

	Basically by posting to a new group, I am entering new territory --
someone else can choose to follow me or not.  But if I set followups to
the new territory, I am directing them there ahead of me, and it might
not be appropriate.

	Just my 3.5 cents.

william


p.s. -- given the nature of the topic, other newsgroups that might have been
appropriate alt.pagan, soc.religion.eastern, soc.religion.misc....etc.
--
1935 will go down in history.  For the first time, a civilized nation has
full gun registration.  Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient,
and the world will follow our lead into the future.
                         --Adolf Hitler
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: dbshapco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Brad Shapcott)
Subject: Re: FeminIseultIsm
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:55:05 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.125122.26184@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
>In <BzFHqv.46E@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>
>dbshapco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Brad Shapcott) writes:
>>[...] Maybe people just prefer to bicker.
>>Two posts I made in a more theoretical 'let's understand this' tone
>>warranted only one reply that limited itself to one word I used.
>
>Oh gawd, not this one again. It should be put into the FAQ list. All
>together now:
>
>	Just because you did not receive any responses to your posting
>	does *not* mean that people have deliberately, maliciously and
>	conspiratorially chosen to ignore it.
>

No, its got nothing to do with how many responses come in.

It's the quality of response.  If I try to explain something in detail,
editing my post down to one word and making a comment that addresses
none of the ideas presented in the post is useless.

I'd rather people didn't bother instead.

And people, apparently, do just prefer to bicker.  And I'm not the
only one to notice it as a recent trend.


Brad
Xref: sparky soc.bi:17044 soc.motss:53246
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
Subject: Re: Liberty (was something relevant about CO-2 long ago...)
Date: 21 Dec 92 15:09:03 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) considers the influence of the effect
of imposing language differences on people's
thoughts.  I have some questions about his examples, but that's not
the real issue for me in what he wrote:
 >(1) Germany, 1935-194?. Ever read German w.r.t. foreigners (i.e.
 >Jews)?  The language, indeed, quickly adapted to the needs of its
 >users, to blame and denigrate 'foreigners'. Now, was this because people

Denigrate?


-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: mhk@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Mark Kaepplein x1517)
Subject: Re: Sharon Stone
Reply-To: mhk@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Mark Kaepplein x1517)
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 21:44:12 GMT

My best friend's life is getting very close to Basic Instinct. She's
monosexual, with long dark hair, drives aggressively (learned it from
me :-) ) and looks great in black leather. Her new girlfriend (and
roommate) really looks a lot like Sharon Stone, is rich, bi, top,
likes to use restraints, and not wear underwear. She claims not
to have seen the movie or own an ice pick. Ah, for Xmas....
Just about everyone who meets them, mutters "Basic Instinct."

Mark

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Subject: Re: Help! I've been killfiled and I can't get out!
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:00:16 GMT

In <BzKytq.ABu@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>
dbshapco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Brad Shapcott) writes:
>cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
>>>[Re: putting people in your killfile]
>>>I do think it is a dangerous practice to apply so broad a filter.
>>>People you do not like often have things to say as important as
>>>said by those people you do like.  Usually the 'n' and 'k' keys
>>>are powerful enough for me, and only used for subjects I have no
>>>interest in (not discussions where the main participant(s) irritates
>>>me).
>>
>>You are generalising from your own experience and assuming that other
>>people feel (or should feel) similarly. Some of us don't. If/how one
>>uses a killfile or not is a personal choice and is not subject to your
>>approval.
>
>And pray tell, where do I suggest it is?  I'm not giving out licences,
>I was just making an observation coupled with an explanation of my
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^                 ^^^^^^^^^^^
>own policy.  The part where I demanded we all do the same eludes me.

Your observation was a negative one of the way some other folk read
news. Your explanation of your own method sounded like an endorsement
for it. A natural inference is that other folk should abandon their
current practices and adopt your (superior) one.

The following paraphrase of your original paragraph makes this
interpretation more visible by making it less subtle:

	/1/ Using killfiles is a bad idea.
	/2/ *I* use the 'n' & 'k' keys myself and have found them to be
	    perfectly adequate.
	/3/ [Therefore, you should stop using killfiles and adopt my approach]

where
	/1/ is the negative observation
	/2/ is your explanation which sounds like an endorsement
	/3/ is a natural inference.

You claim that this interpretation was not intended. OK, I believe
you. However, I hope you will agree that this interpretation was
possible.


Ciaran.
-- 
---- Ciaran McHale (cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie)
\bi/ Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.
 \/  Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-6772204
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: iwatters@cix.compulink.co.uk (Ian Watters)
Subject: Re: A question about Stephen M. Conley  
Reply-To: iwatters@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 22:49:00 +0000

Lee Crocker:
>>Alas, to my great disappointment, even the Libertarians are getting
>>soft.  Last week, the National Commmittee finally voted to eliminate
>>the oath, to allow candidates to use matching funds, and to support
>>"practical interim legislation consistent with libertarian goals",
>>even if that means voting for tax reform instead of elimination.

Who was it who said that "politics is the art of the possible"?  Since you're
not going to get tax elimination next week, you might as well encourage
reform until then.

Getting vaguely back to the newsgroup's topic, BiONIC, the UK bisexual
political activism group included "the end of capitalism" in a set of aims.
Now I can live with that, but I wonder what BiONIC is going to do *after*
next Tuesday... <grin>

>>I threw away my "Libertarians: The Party of Principle" button.

Principles and pragmatism are not incompatible.  But I am surprised at the
dropping of the "non-violence" oath.
---
iwatters@cix.compulink.co.uk  |  Hon Secretary of the London Bisexual Group
                              |  c/o BM BI, London, Great Britain  WC1N 3XX
<< Never mind the LBG, *I* disagree with everything here, including this >>

>>>MATRIX version  1.21e
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Questionnaire for HIV-negative people
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 02:20:18 GMT

In article <ALAN.92Dec23114442@pluto.osf.org> alan@osf.org (Alan Hamilton) writes:
:In article <Bzn32w.Cr2@world.std.com> wij@world.std.com (William I Johnston) writes:
::I am writing a book about the social and psychological issues
::that face gay and bisexual men who learn that they are HIV-negative.
:
:gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
:> Is it just me who's callous and insensitive, or does anyone
:> else think this is all just getting rather silly?
:
:I don't know whether you read the entire article, or were just
:reacting to the introduction that you quoted...
...
:In addition, I think this research is important in understanding how
:to help people avoid contracting HIV.  In that sense, this may be a
:very important study.

The latter point I could understand, but that's not the impression the
posting gave.  It came across clearly as a support scheme for people feeling
guilty about not catching HIV.  Actually, it wasn't even a support scheme,
it was just academic research, wasn't it?  Sorry, but over here we don't
have as much sympathy as Americans for in-depth studies of underwater
basket-weaving, especially if funded by the public purse.

G
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: an2839@anon.penet.fi (Archer)
Subject: Re: treating men as sex toys
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: soc.bi
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 22:52:19 GMT

jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer) writes:
> I, on the other hand, have maintained that sex can be just a physical
> act, and that it's not necessarily better or worse than sex as part
> of another relationship - and of course relationships vary as well -
> what I've maintained is that it's different, and each kind of 
> relationship/encounter is likely better or worse  for a particular
> individual based on what the particular individual needs/wants.

Agreed.  Interesting Woody Allan quote (forgive me if I mess this up
:)  "Sex without love is an empty experience.  As far as empty
experiences go, however, it's one of the best."

-"Archer"
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