HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jcarroll@bach.udel.edu (Royal J Carroll)
Subject: Re: Introduction, or De-Muffining
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 10:24:46 GMT

In article <Bz0992.3vK@cck.coventry.ac.uk> idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>In article <1992Dec8.204828.28725@athena.cs.uga.edu> wells@athena.cs.uga.edu (Scott Wells) writes:
>>Hello to all of you in Etherland,
>
>Hiya!
>

Hello! *hug*

>>I have a few questions:
>>
>>2. Do any straight people out there have gaydar ?  (Those friends
>>never questioned my ability to pick out family.)

While my gaydar has improved over the years, it was quite effective even
when I identified as straight.  Also my (straight) roommate's gaydar is fairly
decent.


>>3. What's the deal about Jethro Tull ?
>
>Huh?  Apart from being a most excellent rock group? (OK, we'll
>discount the odd album such as "A")
>
Technically, _A_ doesn't need to be discounted; it was orignally an Ian
Anderson solo project.  (He didn't have a title for it so the tapes were
labled "A" for Anderson, hence the album's eventual title.)  The record
execs at Chrsyllis thought that the album would sell better if it had the
Jethro Tull name attached to it, so they released it as a JT album,
instead of an IA solo project.  They felt justified because some JT
members did do work on the record.

-James, who just happens to be listening to _Thick_As_A_Brick right now

-- 
You touch my eyes and hypnotize and slip inside my heart      | jcarroll@
I wait for this forever but we always fall apart	      | brahms.udel.edu
You want to hold me closer, and secretly entice		      -----------------
You take the size of shawdowed men, and punish me with kisses every night
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: Introduction, or De-Muffining
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:26:18 GMT

In article <BzEq1L.7u@news.udel.edu> jcarroll@ravel.udel.edu (James Carroll) writes:
>In article <BzEILs.Gt8@cck.coventry.ac.uk> idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>>In article <BzDEq6.KCo@news.udel.edu> seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore) writes:
>>>Who needs bear codes anyway?
>>>I am about 5'10", have greenish eyes, and have been told that I look
>>>like James Spader.  
>>
>>That's exactly why bearcodes are handy.  Who the asterisks is James Spader?
>>And - more operatively - what does he look like? (And if you say "Well,
>>he looks somewhat like Jim Dilmore", I shall spank you, d'you hear?)
>
>He's an American actor who looks somewhat like Jim Dilmore.  I can't
>remember what movies his been in.  

Hey, James, that "if you say '...' I shall spank you" wasn't restricted
to Jim, y'know?  Looks like you're heading for a spanking when I see
you...

				Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: iw@tosser.Rational.COM (The_Devine_Dolly)
Subject: Re: Attack of the Seperatists (was Re: Roy's "consenting" slave)
Organization: Rational
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:50:31 GMT

rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:

>In article <iw.724435606@tosser> iw@tosser.Rational.COM (The_Devine_Dolly) writes:
>->rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:

>->To call a woman "who works side-by-side with men but simply does't
>->spend any emotional energy on them " a separtist is a gross piece of
>->nonsense

>Iseult, I was using that example specifically because I had just finished a
>discussion of separatism on a bisexual mailing list I'm on, where a _woman_
>used that to describe varieties of separatism, specifically using that
>version to describe what she practiced for a while ... I didn't pull it out
>of a hat.

>Would you have said it's a "gross piece of nonsense" if you knew a woman
>said this? Or do you read this stuff through "a man said this" filters?

Afraid I would.  I see separtism as a political act.  Act is a 
particularly important word in there, simply being not interested in
men is not an act.  I find it hard
to understand why somebody (woman or man) would include the above
definition as separtism.  I would be interested (honestly)
in hearing why you think of it as separtism.

>->While I did not agree with Vikki about your relationship, in fact
>->I really know far more about your relationship than I care to, I

>Fine.  Then stay the hell out of my bedroom, my dungeon, and my
>relationship. You're not invited.

The problem being I am not in your bedroom, your dungeon, or your
relationship.  I guess I feel I am being somewhat non-consensually
topped into hearing more about it than I wish.  I have tried to skip
most of the posts.  But then Hey ... I am a femme masochist/sadist
switch .... not a submissive, so I guess I am really enjoying myself
somewhere along the line.

>I never said I was a feminist.  Not recently, at least.  I said I was
>_pro-feminist_ exactly for the reason you state.

Cool, sorry if I misreprsented you.

>->You look at a woman who is has little or no interest in men and you
>->call her a separtist.  You can't clue to the fact that SHE HASN~T EVEN
>->THOUGHT ABOUT MEN ENOUGH TO EVEN THINK OF ACTIVELY SEPARATING FROM THEM.

>No.  I look at a woman who _has_ thought about men, who made a conscious
>decision to stay away from them, and I call her a separatist.  There's a
>difference.

Well then you need to tighten up your definitions, because that is very
different from the original in your post, which I paraphrased exactly
above.

Iseult.
From: pflynn@ccvax.ucd.ie (Peter Flynn)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Progress report
Date: 15 Dec 92 14:48:41 GMT
Organization: University College Dublin

Yay! Finally got nntpd to limp into action. Only have to get cnews to do the
same and I'll be back in the land of the living on my own machine. A prolonged
absinthe from soc.bi is NOT a good idea :-( altho the recent wars on BISEXU-L
have been entertaining...

///Peter, looking for a hug or two to keep him going :-)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: De-muffinning 
Followup-To: soc.bi
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 03:34:44 GMT

In article <BzGsHu.LCx@ibmpcug.co.uk> shelly@rachel.ibmpcug.co.uk (Shelly DelVeccio) writes:
>Hi everyone. This is it! You're not gonna believe this, but I've been
>reading this group since January and this is the first time I've had the
>courage to post. I guess there comes a time when you just gotta do
>self-indulgent, incredibly short-sighted things...;-)
>
>So here I am, hug me, quick!

Hug Hug Hug hug hug hug hugggity hug

>Oh, and I just have one question: Ciaran is the moderator here, right?
>(Teasing, just teasing!)

And some of us are immoderators ;)

Welcome....
-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
                      |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
From: moragw@castle.ed.ac.uk (Alloy Serving Woman)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Oooh, am I miffed!
Date: 14 Dec 92 11:53:34 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

All the hugs you want Steve, if that had happened to me I would have
expired on the spot (pathological insecurity I'm afraid).   
*HUGS*
Mo
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: jcarroll@bach.udel.edu (James Carroll)
Subject: Re: Pins
Organization: CNS User Services, University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 01:14:56 GMT

In article <BzBDvI.EIo@news.udel.edu> eowyn@brahms.udel.edu (Zoe Antonia Velonis) writes:
>
>Whew, the sender is finally letting me post....know how frustrating it is
>to read the net and not be able to post after you've demuffined?
>

Yes!!!  Damn glitch was keeping me from flirting with Kay!  Thankfully,
the error has been fixed and the Delaware contingent (which keeps on
growing!) can flood the net again.

>And I'm going home (home...where my thought's escaping....home....)

Home...where my music's playing...

>So Merry Christmas
>Happy Kwaanza
>Happy Hannukah
>Merry Winter Solstice
>Merry Summer Solstice (for those of you in the So. hemisphere)
>THINK SNOW!!!!!!!!!
>Happy New Year!
>

From me as well!

>and a whole round of *hugs* and *snuggles* and *squeezes* to everyone out
>there!
>

Group hug!  Grope, hug!

>Zoe

-James


-- 
I'm feeling kinda loose, I'm feeling kinda mean       | First I was a murderer
I've been feeling kinda wild since I turned seventeen | Then I was a saint
- Melissa Etheridge, "Ain't It Heavy"                 | -The Glove,
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-jcarroll@brahms.udel.edu-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-| "Like An Animal"
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: anti-bi's
Followup-To: soc.bi
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 06:54:21 GMT

In article <s882916.724489855@otto> s882916@otto (Vikki POLLARD) writes:
>
>I have never had hostility about being bisexual directed at me from the 
>lesbian communiyt. I think it is a bit of an urban myth about lesbians 
>being anti-male. [...]

Well, I'd agree that lesbians aren't particularly anti-male. (Perhaps
pro-female? ;)

What I would say is that there are threads in the lesbian-feminist
tradition which provide an ideological basis for hostility to
bisexuals, that gay men don't generally have.

Maybe what most of the anti-bi folk have in common is a tendency to
recycle myths and images about bisexuals.  I suspect that today's
myths about bisexuals date from the 50's, 60's and 70's. (With the 
exception of AIDS-related myths which are based on the older myths.)

This is not to say there is no truth in myths but that they replace
direct experience as the standard for judging bisexuals and thus
function as stereotypes.

-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
                      |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
From: fwi@cco.caltech.edu (Bill Irion)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Another L.A. BiFolk get-together
Date: 15 Dec 1992 04:34:32 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

Hello everybody.

Sorry for the short notice, but there's going to another
L.A. get-together this Wednesday night, this time in
West Hollywood.  If you think you can make it, or if
you want to know about the next one (probably in January),
drop me some e-mail and I'll send you the details.

Hugs,
Bill

--
Bill Irion    fwi@cco.caltech.edu
"Good manners and bad breath will get you nowhere" - Elvis Costello

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Personal and/or Political
Followup-To: soc.bi
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 04:15:49 GMT

In article <1992Dec20.183234.27291@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> 
 arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Angus H Rodgers) writes:
[Lots of stuff deleted]
>[Someone said:]
>>	Why the fuck can't it be recognised that women love women
>>	through *positive* reasons of loving women, not necessarily
>>	negative reasons of hating men.
>
>Well, of course we all (in soc.bi) recognise this, don't we? But
>lesbianism (*) is, as I just said, personal; whereas feminism is
>political.
[...disclaimer and footnote deleted...]

This reminds me of the quote from Ti-Grace Atkinson which started
life as "Feminism is a theory, lesbianism is a practice" and
mutated into "Feminism is *the* theory, lesbianism is *the* practice".

(See "Bi Any Other Name", the "Bicostal introduction" for citations)

This trend of thought also led, in the '70s, to "Political
Lesbians" with a profound ambivalance toward bisexuality.

While I tend to agree with the idea that the "Personal is political"
I don't think it should justify denying one's personal reality
for the sake of politics. One way or another, we have to do
reality checks on what we personally know and feel.

Not wanting to focus on lesbians entirely, I can see in my own
approach to bisexuality over the years a shift between seeing it
as "personal" (when I was coming out) and seeing it as "political" 
(more recently).

A danger in becoming ideologically-perfect "Super Queer" is
that I may lose touch with my inner reality, especially those
aspects I'd like to deny. (What Jungians might call the "shadow".)

I guess that what this may imply is a need for ideologies made
for imperfect, wet, messy, non-standard people. Much harder to
do than one-size-fits all!

I think the phrase the "Personal is Political" was originally
a rebelion against the idea that woman's concerns were in a
"non-political" relational sphere (which wasn't taken seriously)
and works pretty well when it is used to motivate deriving
politics from personal experience.  The problem I allude to
comes from trying to push things too hard in the other direction.

-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
                      |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: rowe@engin.umich.edu (Steven Rowe)
Subject: Re: Vikki's Problems With Kerry&Me
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 00:02:07 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <iw.724464203@tosser> iw@tosser.Rational.COM (The_Devine_Dolly) writes:
>rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>
>>In article <iw.724439252@tosser> iw@tosser.Rational.COM (The_Devine_Dolly) writes:
>>->rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>>->
>>->> ... I don't call myself a feminist, but I _do_ believe in
>>->>feminist principles ... And heck, I could out-manbash you any day of the
>>->>week :).
>>->
>>->
>>->Clue ... BIG CLUE ...  EVEN BIGGER CLUE .... Feminism is not a 
>>->man-bashing movement.
>
>>Babe, I didn't say it was.  I did say (somewhere that you didn't include)
>>that I felt Vikki was manbashing, and that I could match her on this point.
>
>QUESTION .... was the word BABE used in this context as some form of cutesey
>irony, or was it used in the way men regularly use it to dismiss the
>opinion of a woman.
>
>Iseult.

Folks,
Would I be out of line here if I asked nicely for you to take all
this yelling about separatism, man-bashing, and hate-filled inuendo
over to alt.feminism, where the readers WANT to see flames?

Yeah, I know, I know.  There's always the Kill command.  Thing is,
I'm interested in Roy and Kerry, and when I see posts with either
of them, I'm loathe to junk 'em.

Hugs and Kisses to anybody who wants and appreciates them!

                                   Steve

-- 
Steve Rowe: B0 f- w- c g+ k+ s- e+ r-
I drank too much beer, then tried to sober up by drinking
too much coffee.  The result was that I was still making
irrational decisions, but I was making them *FAST*!  -me
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: dwells@lonestar.utsa.edu (Darren . Wells)
Subject: Re: Introduction, or De-Muffining
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 00:21:05 GMT

In article <BzDEoK.IH@kathunk.phaedrav.on.ca>
 nigel@kathunk.phaedrav.on.ca (Nigel M Burnett) writes:
>
>Doesn't anyone (other than the odd Ausie) want to visit Toronto?
>
>eh?

Toronto?

YES! ! ! ! ! ! !  I was just there about a month ago, and it was very
nice.  (would have been lots nicer if I could have brought some MONEY
with me, tho.) ;)

I am planning on returning sometime in February or March.

*sigh*

Darren
(who might as well move somewhere in the northeast, since he is there
most of the time anyway)
From: iw@tosser.Rational.COM (The_Devine_Dolly)
Subject: Re: Attack of the Seperatists
Organization: Rational
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:56:38 GMT

bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth) writes:


>> It is not enough to claim that you have feminist principles, if you do not
>> also have a feminist consciousness.  And more and more I believe in the
>> politics of oppression which says that if you are not of the opressed
>> all you can do is be a supporter.  Malcolm X had a lot to offer in some
>> respects.

>And in reverse, you can't understand what it means to be a man if you
>don't also have a male consciousness.

Whats your point here?

>The politics of oppression is
>not to segregate but to unify those who are oppressed and those who
>support them.  Does it really matter if we're black, white, green,
>straight, gay, bi, Jewish, Christian, Wiccan, if we're trying to fight
>oppression, whether it be bi oppression, black oppression, gay oppression
>or female oppression?  If it does, then the battle is already lost.


I used to think that it did not matter, that anybody with an interest
in that cause could partiicpate equally and as usefully.  But I find
that is not really so.  Its like when I talk to one of my best
friends, she is latina, but grew up as a middle class american.  When
she tells me she is a woman of color, I just don't see it.  To me
she looks white, i.e. she looks like mediteranean europeans, and that
to me is as whitebread as I am.  However her life experience is different,
she knows what it is like to thought of as another mexican just 
arrived over the border.  All I can do is listen to her experience,
support her in any way I can, but I do not think any more that I can
fight her battles, because I just do not have enough of her
experiences to do that.

In the same way, I have many men in my life who are feminist, and I know
that a number of male posters on this group are self described
feminists.  But after a certain level, I find - no matter how 
understanding they are - that there are issues that are important to 
me, and other feminists, that they just cannot get.  They either have
to chose to accept our word that it is so based on our life experience,
or based on their life experiences decide that we are over reacting.
Thats where the cracks really show - when you are not of the opressed,
there will be things that you will not understand.  

The same is true in queer/straight politics.  I have given up counting
the number of times straight people have said to me, that they cannot
understand why it is so important for gay people to have the military
ban lifted.  

So while I would like to think that the oppressed and their supporters
can be unified, I do not believe any more that both can play equal
roles in the liberation of the oppressed.

Iseult.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: bryant@icd.teradyne.com (Wayne Bryant)
Subject: More de-muffining
Reply-To: bryant@icd.teradyne.com
Organization: Teradyne, Inc. Boston MA
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 19:07:16 GMT


I only managed to get myself on this net two days ago, so I haven't kept my muffin for long.  Then again, who needs muffinhood.  I prefer to have social intercourse on multiple networks at the same time, if possible.

If was great to see Kay's electrons out on the ether.  I haven't seen the lad since the bi conference in Coventry, lo these many moons ago.  Much too long!

	Wayne M. Bryant
	Biversity Boston
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: wells@athena.cs.uga.edu (Scott Wells)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: FAQ request
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:41:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: athena.1992Dec11.184150.5973
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <1992Dec11.182740.1962@leland.Stanford.EDU> prufrock@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scot N Gibson) writes:
>
>Hello folks.  I'm looking for a copy of the soc.bi FAQ.  Since I don't
>normally read this group, could someone e-mail it to me?



Me too; I've never seen it posted. 

>Thanks in advance,
>--scoT

scoTT
(I've got more Ts than you do *nya* *nya*)

-- 
Scott Wells                        +  Get thee behind me Satan !
Internet: wells@athena.cs.uga.edu  + 
University of Georgia		   +  Looking for families: Wells, Fox (TN)
Athens, Georgia, USA               +  Coatney (TN), Wilvert (PA)
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Singing Queers
Date: 20 Dec 92 20:31:02 GMT
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous

In article <1992Dec20.174620.20629@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (andrew david simchik) writes:
:>But remember folks, *don't* include that certified heterosexual Jason. :-)

:Terribly ignorant, I know, but to whom are you referring?  (Jason??)

I think his surname is Donovan but I'm not 100% sure I'm not confusing
him with some other singer.  He's an Ozzie soap actor who conned his
way into a job with Tim-Rice-Lloyd-Webber singing in Jason and the
Golden Coat of Many Colours or some such tripe.

Anyway, he took some magazine (might have been a gay mag, can't remember) to
court over here this year when they implied he was gay.  He saw this as a
mortal insult, and so did the courts, awarding him ridiculously large
damages for this slight to his manhood.

It was true though - he s in love with a man: himself.  Vanity, thy name
is Jason...

G
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: safarj@rebecca.its.rpi.edu (Jonah Emanuel Safar)
Subject: Re: See Roy?
Keywords: Here I am!
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 08:22:29 GMT

rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:

>In article <4+p2zhn@rpi.edu> safarj@rebecca.its.rpi.edu (Jonah Emanuel Safar) writes:
>->rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:

>->>*bearhug* *snuggle* *grin* Thanks for that first night!
>->
>->Shush dear!  You want the whole world to know that I may be responsible for
>->bringing you here?  I'd never hear the end of it... But... Feh, yer welcome
>->anyhow. :) <Snuggle>  And, no, I'm _not_ telling what that first night is...
>-><Glares around and _dares_ anyone to try and make him....>
>->(One tired Dragon who's been up waaaay too long....)

>Awww ... poor Points ... *pulls Points closely, gently rubbing his scaly
>back*

>And dear, _nobody_ knows about that first night other than you, me, and that
>third person ... and he's veryhet anyway, and doesn't read this newsgroup,
>probably ... It _was_ rather nice, though ... wasn't it?

<Grumble> <Blows smoke ring.> Well, I guess so... _was_ fun seeing the look
on your face. (so to speak) When do we get to see you in a dress now? ;)

>-roy
>-- 
>Roy S. Rapoport     internet: rsr@soda.berkeley.edu      bitnet: rsrsoda@ucbo
>"What I used to think is me ... is just a faded memory ... " -NIN
>DISCLAIMER:  I speak for the University of California at Berkeley.  Rrrright.

-Points
-- 
________________________________________________________________________________
 If the President won't do it to his wife, he'll do it to his Country. -Unknown
________________________________________________________________________________
Jonah E. Safar             R.P.I., Troy, NY              EMail to:safarj@rpi.edu