HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: knowled@ccsmtp.ccf.org (Doug Knowles)
Subject: sail vs. power vs. jets - suggestion
Organization: Cleveland Clinic Foundation
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:27:42 GMT

Instead of splitting the group, we could do as rec.aquaria does:  
Include in the subject line [S] for sail, [P] for power, and
[dumb...],  er, I mean, [J] for jet skis.  
This makes it trivial to selectively read posts of interest.
For example a post about full length battens might have a subject line of

[S] Lazy Jacks for full length battens?

And a post about salt accumulation in outboard motors might be
[P] salt clogs thermostat

Posts including two topics can be indicated
[PJ] Clotheslining as a method of eugenics

Thus, I should have made the subject of this post
[SPJ] sail vs. power vs jets - suggestion

(My apologies to the *responsible* jet skiers out there.)
W. Douglas Knowles, Ph.D.            E-mail: knowled@ccsmtp.ccf.org
Department of Neurosciences          voice:  (216) 444-3870
Cleveland Clinic Foundation          FAX:    (216) 444-7927
9500 Euclid Avenue                   
Cleveland, OH 44195 USA              other:   hey, you!
 
quote: "We need not all give our whole time to the currently more glamorous
"molecular biology"; it will doubtless come soon enough."  I.H. Page 1962
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Sail salvage w/power (brainstorm)
From: hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch)
Date: 26 Jan 93 10:08:43 MDT
Reply-To: hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Utah State University

Much deleted

|>How about some more information.  For example, its hard to see why a
|>26' sailboat would be on the bottom in 6.5' of water.  Is there a
|>hole?  How big?  Is the hull mostly submerged?  What's keeping her
|>down?  (If there is a lot of sand/muck on the inside I don't think you
|>have much of a chance.)
|>
|>My best guess is that you need to add some major flotation at low
|>tide, and then let the tide do the actual work of getting her off of
|>the bottom.  There is no point in moving her into deeper water if she
|>can't stay afloat.
|>
|>When you tried turning her did you try pulling from the top of the
|>mast to get some serious leverage on the keel?
--
|>T. Scott Thompson              email:  thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu

Scotts right give us more info.

If the waters only 4' deep at low tide you might try shoveling the muck off
the keel before attempting to drag the boat.

--
Hal Lynch

	US Mail:  Utah State University
	          Office of Computer Services
	          Logan, Utah 84322-4410
	Internet: Hal@cache.declab.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: hall@trl.oz.au (Roger Hall)
Subject: Re: Give me some Ideas!
Reply-To: hall@trl.oz.au
Organization: Telecom Research Labs.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 06:56:47 GMT

In article 215022IO21145@MAINE.MAINE.EDU, IO21145@MAINE.MAINE.EDU () writes:
>Hello to all of you! - I would like some suggestions for the
>naming of my 23 foot Grady-White Gulfstream... I'm really having
>a tough time coming up with anything completley new and nautical!
>So anything goes!!!!!!
>
>Thanks a lot! (The winner gets $65!)
				^^^^ not that I'm desperate but, ...
I hope this is US$ as its worth more to me than A$ !

>
>Mark


	* KNOT A CLEW *   - has a good ring to it.


regards,
---
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger L. Hall		        _--_|\   #include <std/disclaimer.h>
Network Services & Signalling  /      \  Email:     r.hall@trl.oz.au
Telecom Research Laboratories  \_.--.x/  Fax:         +61 3 253 6362
Melbourne, Australia.                v   Phone:       +61 3 253 6187
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski)
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 17:35:17 GMT

In article <1jsgbqINN592@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>Some posters seem to be saying that wheels may be easier "because
>you know which way the boat will turn," but are there not boats
>where the wheel turns agianst the direction? Wasn't this the "old-
>fashioned" way? Stefan should know that one.
>
>As to tillers taking up room, one of the nice things about aft cabins
>is that the tiller may take up no cockpit space at all -- just lie
>along the top of the aft cabin. That how it was on the Norwegian motor
>sailer that I nearly bought, and also the Nor Sea 27. The real design 
>is how balanced a rudder will you have? A rudder can be hinged to have
>almost no straightening force at all, or even a negative one.
>
>						Cap'n Fido
>						F E L I X
>


From: Dan.Hannah@f764.n153.z1.ship.wimsey.bc.ca (Dan Hannah)
Sender: UUCP@ship.wimsey.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Give me some Ideas!
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 10:52:00 -0800

To: <IO21145@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
 On 01-22-93 IO21145 wrote to ALL...

I > Hello to all of you! - I would like some suggestions for the
 I > naming of my 23 foot Grady-White Gulfstream... I'm really having
 I > a tough time coming up with anything completley new and nautical!
 I > So anything goes!!!!!!

Pick one from column "A" and one from column "B".  Put them together for an
instant boat name.

     "A"                        "B"

 STRUCK                         SEA
 RAGE                           RAIN
 VENTURE                        NORTH (SOUTH, EAST, WEST)
 REFUGE                         STORM
 DANCER                         DIVER
 STORM                          DANCER
 DIVER                          REFUGE
 NORTH (S,E,W)                  VENTURE
 RAIN                           RAGE
 SEA                            STRUCK

This should yield 156 suitably naugtical name suggestions.  Was there a prize
in this contest??  {grin}

Dan Hannah    Puyallup,  WA



... OFFLINE 1.42 * --------------------------------------------------------
......................................................................


Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: tklakakp@cc.curtin.edu.au
Subject: Re: CAD Program for Boat Modeling?
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 05:17:53 GMT

In article <92226.083700RROXBY@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, Robert Roxby <RROXBY@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
> Are there any programs that will construct a perspective model
> of a solid (boat hull) from x,y,z coordinates (table of offsets),
> and let you rotate the object and will simulate shading from
> light sources placed at different positions?  Thanks.

You are unlikely to find software that will pick up xyz coords as there is bound
to be some degree of unfairness unless the coords were generated by the same
mathematical techniques as those used in the software you are in. There may
be some programs that will give you an approximation to your coords. Failing
this I suggest Hullform v5 for PCs, from Blue Peter Marine Systems, 92 Dyson
St., Kensington 6151 Western Australia (phone/fax Oz 09 474 1288) or on Macs,
old faithful Macsurf and associated programs from Graphic Magic, PO Box 185,
Cottesloe 6011 Western Australia.
Kim Klaka
Australian Maritime Engineering Cooperative Research Centre
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: danmc@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (daniel.c.mckibben)
Subject: Re: Liveaboard rent question
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:46:06 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.155229.25162@unet.net.com> linda@wendy.net.com (Linda Hill) writes:
>I don't know how many liveaboards there are reading this group, but
>something has come up in our marina that I would like get some feedback on.

(lots deleted)

>a big hit when you're already a family on a tight budget.  The irony is that
>people don't usually liveaboard because they're rich boat owners.  It's
>usually because they can't afford to buy a house.

My own view is that people liveaboard because they love the life - love boating
and being close to nature.  The lower cost than buying a house is an added
benefit.  At least that's why I live aboard.

Sounds like your marina is really trying to screw the liveaboard families.  I
could see some reasonable incremental amount to cover extra hot water, or 
power (if included with the slip), but not $200/month.  Makes me realize how
lucky I am to be in an area with few liveaboards and marinas that are happy
to have slips full.  Here there is no additional liveaboard fee and I only
pay storage rates in the winter - about $650 from October-March.

The idea of being to sail my home to a new job on the west coast is sounding
much less appealing.

Dan McKibben
Wachusett
Point Pleasant, NJ
From: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats
Date: 23 Jan 93 22:58:38 GMT
Reply-To: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Annapolis, MD

In rec.boats, francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>Some posters seem to be saying that wheels may be easier "because
>you know which way the boat will turn," but are there not boats
>where the wheel turns agianst the direction? Wasn't this the "old-
>fashioned" way? Stefan should know that one.

I don't know, but it makes sense as an extension of the "starboard".
Better the way it is though.  Would be a pain to pull the wheel against
a heel.

Anybody else have this problem:  I learned on and exclusively used a
tiller for over 20 years.  Then I got a boat with wheel steering 18
years ago and have had a wheel continuously ever since.

But *STILL* after all this time, if I'm *forward* of the wheel I will
instinctively throw the wheel bass-ackwards.  Damnedest thing...
sailing smoothly along, then suddenly find yourself rounding up at an
ever increasing rate (as you apply "correction").  I just can't break
that habit!

Only two week minimum cruises seem to have any curative effect.  Then
it's back to day one the next time I get out.  Maybe I need a *year*
or two off-shore.  Heh, four more years of this rat-race, then... :-)

-- Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert J. Hanners         "My comments; only mine."          *DIASTOLE* 676673
CD, NSWC, Annapolis, MD                              hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: iseman@ravel.udel.edu (Stephen Early)
Subject: 1976 AMF Crestliner hull design
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 02:08:30 GMT


	I have a 1976 Nortic 16, AMF Cresliner.  If you are familiar with this boat 
you know it has a lip about 3/4" wide welded to the hull so it protrudes
straight out, i.e. is horizontal.  The lip is just above the water line and 
seems to act as a hard chine.  The problem is that when the boat comes nose down
on a swell, this lip throws the water straight out from the boat.  This is ok on
the sides but in front where the boat comes to a point, straight out from the 
hull corresponds to in front of the boat.  Add a little head wind and you get
one of the wettest boats I've ever been in.

	I want to remove/modify the lip to prevent water from coming in the boat and
need to know how to do this without causing structural problems.  If anyone has
any input I'd appreciate it.  I'm real close to just cutting the damn thing off.

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: floydb@rpi.edu
Subject: Re: Split rec.boats??
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:58:33 GMT

In article <1jplamINN6e7@male.EBay.Sun.COM> jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM (Jeff Huntington) writes:
>In article 1jpjsjINNms@gilligan.East.Sun.COM, mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori) writes:
>> I know this has been hashed over at least once prior, but
>> in light of the recent post someone made referring a person
>> who asked about jet skis to rec.annoying.irritating.ought.
>> to.be.shot, I thought that this newsgroup really needs to
>> be split.
>> 
>> That way, sailboat people can talk about sailboat things,
>> powerboat people can talk about powerboat things, and
>> people with personal watercraft can talk about personal
>> watercraft things. All without the benefit of someone
>> harassing them for their choice of boat type.
>> 
>> One of the reasons for not splitting I saw before was that
>> some people have an interest in both power and sailboating,
>> but that's why newsreaders support multiple groups.
>> 
>> What do the rest of you think?
>> 
>> -- Mike
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> My opinions - not my employer's
>
>
>Heck, We share the water - we might as well share the newsgroup.  Besides, 
>the difference in viewpoint between stinkpotters and ragmen, and jet skiiers
>and those pesky sailboarders, keeps the newsgroup interesting and amusing.  :-)
>
>Jeff Huntington
>
>
>


While this may be the case, I have found that in other newsgroups there has
been a reduction in (self proclaimed) junk mail that I have to wade through,
even if it only reading subject lines.

I have zero interest in power boating, and less interest in personal water
craft, similarly low interest in oil tankers. I subscribed to rec.boat 
fearing that it would be rec.powerboat and was pleasantly suprised to see
a great deal of sail enthusiasm. To better the situation, IMHO, I would 
encourage the creation of ..sail ..power and ..other so that I can ignore
..power and ..other (i.e. not subscribe to them).

2 cents

barry

;--------------------------------------------------------------------------;
;    Standard Disclaimer...                                                ;
;                                                                          ;
;    Rensselear Polytechnic Institute -- 110 8th Street -- Troy, NY 12180  ;
;--------------------------------------------------------------------------;

lastline
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: scott@prodplan.Columbia.NCR.COM (Scott Bridges)
Subject: Re: Jet Skis
Organization: NCR Corp, E&M-Columbia, Columbia, SC
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 15:47:47 GMT

In article <30163@oasys.dt.navy.mil> hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners) writes:
>In rec.boats, tomw@megatek.com (Tom Wright) writes:

    [discussion deleted]

>
>Don't think there's much hope of controling this situation, just
>continuing to remind people to be careful and don't do those neatsy
>keen manuveurs on jet skis near other boats.  You want wakes to jump?
>Go out on the Bay in Force Fives.  But *STAY AWAY FROM OTHER BOATS*.
>
>-- Bob
>

Ditto.

Another thing occurred to me as I rode one last summer.  I have a couple
friends who have them.  As you do the tricks and "turn-on-a-dime"
manuveurs you tend to be very focused on yourself and the immediately
surrounding water only.  If is very easy to forget that there might be
other boaters/skiers in the area.  I think that these things are dangerous,
like any other boat capable of the speeds they are.  Additionally,
some people tend to get much closer to other boats intentionally than you
would with a larger craft.  There is a place for PWC on the water, just
like any other boat, but the operators also must assume the obligation
to act responsibly just like any other boat.   

My point is that irresponsibility is not limited to jet-skiers.  I have been
buzzed by bassboaters, waterskiers, and every other type of go-fast boat.
Believe it or not, I have even encountered one or two inconsiderate 
sailors :). 

Scott "where's a good death-ray when you need one" Bridges

 
-- 
Scott Bridges                               Phone (803) 791-6387
NCR Corp-MCPD Columbia                      Fax (803) 739-7362
3325 Platt Springs Rd                       scott@prodcntr.columbiaSC.NCR.COM
West Columbia, SC 29170
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats (was Re: Boat S
From: hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch)
Date: 25 Jan 93 13:20:18 MDT
Reply-To: hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch)
 <1993Jan23.185152.7491@leland.Stanford.EDU> <1jsudrINNe5u@shelley.u.washington.edu>
Distribution: na
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1jsudrINNe5u@shelley.u.washington.edu>, kaygee@hardy.u.washington.edu (Kevin Giansante) writes:

Stuff deleted

|>I know that what you said makes sense, but my experience is exactly the
|>opposite: I get confused when I use a wheel.  I learned to sail using a
|>tiller, and I tried not to think about it analytically at all; I just
|>moved the tiller one way when the sails did this, and moved it the other
|>way when the sails did that, depending on which way the boat was
|>heeling.  It was kind of like thinking visually, if that makes any
|>sense; steering just seemed to become intuitive.  Now when I use a wheel
|>I HAVE to think, and as often as not I do the wrong thing.  It's pretty
|>embarassing, and it feels very strange to have to think my way through
|>some very simple maneuvers.  Luckily, I don't have the same problem when
|>I drive a car.

If you put a sail on your car would the steering wheel confuse you?

When you are sailing under power does the confusion disappear?

--
Hal Lynch

	US Mail:  Utah State University
	          Office of Computer Services
	          Logan, Utah 84322-4410
	Internet: Hal@cache.declab.usu.edu
From: davea@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Dave Angelini)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:51:50 GMT
Subject: Re: bareboat charters in south pacific
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA
Newsgroups: rec.boats

  

   Yes go sail there! Just don't ever try to fly there on an airline!
The last time I heard it took 42 hours and that was your only choice
short of chartering a private plane. Tahiti is only 8 hours from SF
and very similar.


Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Subject: Re: Give me some Ideas!
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 16:43:29 GMT

In article <93022.215022IO21145@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
<IO21145@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
 
>Hello to all of you! - I would like some suggestions for the
>naming of my 23 foot Grady-White Gulfstream... I'm really having
>a tough time coming up with anything completley new and nautical!
>So anything goes!!!!!!
>
My Banshee got named "Gnilias" because that is how
my four year old wrote down "Sailing" when I spelled
it out out loud for her.  So naturally, when I added
a used Snark Sunflower to our navy, it was named the
"Yot" as in, "Poppy's out sailing his Yot[toy]."
(This is a nice boat for when I want to stay at home
and sail on the six acre "lake" behind our house...
it also looks like a nice first boat for kids.)
 
If my daughter comes up with any more good boats
names, I will let you know.
 
..Richard E+17
From: gerald.belton@ozonehole.com (Gerald Belton) 
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Do I want flat-field
Date: 24 Jan 93 22:39:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Ozone Hole - SKYDIVE New Orleans! - (504)891-3142 16,800 bps
Reply-To: gerald.belton@ozonehole.com (Gerald Belton) 

Francis Muir writes:

>I have one quite poor eye ("the Nelson touch") and I've been looking
>around for telescopes. Surprisingly hard to find. At the moment I'm
>thinking of getting an instrument maker to cut my binocs into two.
>Twice the number, half the weight. Any thoughts? Oh yes, I am also using
>a Celestion C65, a 6.5cm telescope. lightweight plastic thing.

The Edmund Scientific Company (Barrington, NJ) used to have quite a
selection of monoculars in their catalog.  I haven't seen an Edmund
catalog in years, but I'm sure someone who is reading this knows if they
are still around and how to contact them.

A monocular, of course, is like half of a binocular.

---
 . SLMR 2.1 . Hey! No! Don't you DARE! Give that tagline back!
                           
----
+=====================================================================+
| The Ozone Hole - SKYDIVE New Orleans! - (504) 891-3142 HST/DS 16.8K |
| 3 Nodes <> USA Today <> Boardwatch Online <> 10 Gigs <> 73900 Files |
+=====================================================================+
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: walter@watson.ibm.com (Walter Wilson)
Subject: Re: Boat Show
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:35:20 GMT
Distribution: na
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

>   We have been reading for years about the decline of sailing popularity.  The
>   Cow Palace Boat Show really brought this home.  It is hard to understand why,
>   particularly when powerboats seem to be thriving.  Maybe some anthropologist
>   will figure it out.  :-)

Kenedy sailed, Bush powered....

-- 

  Walter G. Wilson  (walter@watson.ibm.com)
  The opinions expressed here are my own.
From: kaygee@hardy.u.washington.edu (Kevin Giansante)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats (was Re: Boat Show)
Date: 24 Jan 1993 02:20:43 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu

In article 15956, stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski)
writes:

>It's easy to understand once you actually try steering a boat with a
>tiller. Although it's hard to believe, for some idiotic reason the
>tiller and the boat actually move in opposite directions; in other
>words, if you push the tiller to the left, the boat turns to the
>right, or, to put it yet another way, if you point the tiller towards
>the place you wish to go to, the boat moves in the OPPOSITE direction!
>This unnatural scheme requires considerable mental and physical
>coordination, and many people (understandably) never get the hang
>of it. You don't see too many tillers on powerboats, do you? In
>my experience, sailing is complicated enough as it is. If someone
>were to invent a simple mechanism that would reverse the effect of the
>tiller upon the rudder, I might be tempted to use it. Until then,
>give me a wheel anytime.

I know that what you said makes sense, but my experience is exactly the
opposite: I get confused when I use a wheel.  I learned to sail using a
tiller, and I tried not to think about it analytically at all; I just
moved the tiller one way when the sails did this, and moved it the other
way when the sails did that, depending on which way the boat was
heeling.  It was kind of like thinking visually, if that makes any
sense; steering just seemed to become intuitive.  Now when I use a wheel
I HAVE to think, and as often as not I do the wrong thing.  It's pretty
embarassing, and it feels very strange to have to think my way through
some very simple maneuvers.  Luckily, I don't have the same problem when
I drive a car.


Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: tomb@atp.serum.kodak.com (Tom "USA" Bullinger (x37419))
Subject: Anyone going to Sail Expo '93?
Reply-To: tomb@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:49:59 GMT

Is anyone else going to Sail Expo '93?? Is there any interest
in meeting somewhere Saturday night for a beer or three? Let's
hear from y'all!
	tomb..

	tomb@serum.kodak.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel)
Subject: Re: Sail salvage w/power (brainstorm)
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Distribution: na
Date: 26 Jan 93 00:23:19 GMT

caf@sequent.com (Frank Collom) writes:

>The boat is in 4' to 6.5' of water depending on tides,  the keel is
>toward shore and now pretty much burried into the sand and muck. She's
>on her side (mast toward river, bow upstream) at about 30 degrees.
>
>We attempted to turn and drag her into deeper water where she could be
>righted using my 29' Criss with twin 350's but couldn' budge her. 

I don't know how much pulling force your boat can generate, but whatever
you do, don't let the towline (or the fittings it's attached to) break
and cut someone in half...   Robert Enenkel
Newsgroups: rec.boats