HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: Good Westerns
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 23:27:11 GMT

In article <23DEC199213385019@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> stoddard@milori.ccit.arizona.edu (MJ STODDARD) writes:
>Wister's The Virginian is excellent, and has that great scene "Smile
>when you call me that!".

	Actually: "When you call me that, smile."
>
>Shane by ?--- is a good gunfighter-theme book.

	Jack Shaefer

	Another good one is Alan Le May's *The Searchers*, written
*before* the movie and different in several interesting details. 

	I mentioned Oakley Hall's *Warlock* and *Apaches* in a
previous post and would add that Hall is the philosopher/poet of the
Western. *Warlock* is a marvelous book.

	Also I mentioned *Corey Lane* by Norman Zollinger. The plot
here will be very familiar for anyone with a passing acquaintance with
Shakespeare's Roman plays.

	Keith
--

Keith Morgan kamorgan@athena.mit.edu
In the end nothing could be said of his work except that it was
preposterous and true and totally unacceptable. Edward Whittemore
From: yarnot@babbage.csus.edu (Jan Yarnot)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Shouting at robots
Date: 3 Jan 93 16:13:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: csusac.1993Jan3.161345.6395
Organization: Moi?

>In article <JMC.93Jan2141039@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
>
>...
>>A $25 prize is offered for the best posting in the next week viewing
>>this development with alarm, i.e. children shouting at robots.

Well, I shout at my computer, at the tv, and definitely at the VCR.  
I'd only be concerned if the robot started shouting back.
--
---Jan Yarnot, net.grandma.-- | When you go out into the world,
			      | watch out for traffic, hold hands,
                              | and stick together.
CSUS depends on my every word.|             --Robert Fulghum    
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Cultural Appropriation and the New Age
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<JMC.92Dec24112625@SAIL.Stanford.EDU>
	<1992Dec28.195826.17180@unet.net.com>
Date: 28 Dec 92 17:06:37

Is Ms. Wolf sure that mere cultural appropriation from Easter Island
is involved?  My sources tell me that the statue itself was illegally
exported.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel)
Subject: Re: Police Procedural  (Was Re: Sjowall & Wahloo)
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 15:15:56 GMT

In article <Bzz7zL.C2o@dunaad.co.uk> ah@dunaad.co.uk (Alan Hunter) writes:
>The most enjoyable writer this genre, I think, is Reginald Hill. His
>series of 10-12 books featuring 'Fat Andy" Dalziell and Peter Pascoe, set
>in Yorkshire, dealing with the modern world while remaining true to the
>genre, improving with every book, are to be treasured. I'd have said
>that no one else read them, but suddenly last August the shelves of every
>book stand in the UK were covered with them, so somebody is trying.

They're quite popular in the U.S. as well.  What I find most enjoyable 
about the series is the way Dalziell has gotten depth, instead of just
being a slob and a boor.  Pascoe has also changed in relationship to his
work and his personal life.  I was sorry that Sergeant Wield was almost
invisible in the most recent book in the series, since he's one of the
better fleshed out secondary characters around.

Hill also has written a number of suspense novels under the name "Patrick
Ruell" which are well-plotted but have less humor.  

Miriam Nadel
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: Non-rabelaisian farts
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 04:04:33 GMT

Joann Zimmerman signs off:

"They like sitting around reading all the books there are. And then they 
love arguing about them. Some of those arguments go on for millenium 
after millenium. It just seems to keep them young, for some reason, 
arguing about books." -- Julian Barnes          

	I have nothing to say. I just liked this enough to see it
	again. Source please?

	Keith

--

Keith Morgan kamorgan@athena.mit.edu
In the end nothing could be said of his work except that it was
preposterous and true and totally unacceptable. Edward Whittemore
From: loosemore-sandra@cs.yale.edu (Sandra Loosemore)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Reading as an addiction (Was: 92 in rabreview)
Date: 31 Dec 1992 08:38:24 -0500
Organization: staff hacker @ Yale Haskell project
	<1htqodINNbui@agate.berkeley.edu>
	<1992Dec31.050130.24366@sophia.smith.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: functor.systemsz.cs.yale.edu
In-reply-to: orourke@sophia.smith.edu's message of Thu, 31 Dec 1992 05:01:30 GMT

orourke@sophia.smith.edu (Joseph O'Rourke) writes:

   Seeing the astounding quantity of books some posters consumed in 1992
   makes me wonder if reading can be a type of (benign?) addiction.  This 
   may be an especially apt description of those who (compulsively?) read a 
   hundred genre novels a year, mysteries or science fiction for example.
	   Among those who are voracious readers, do you feel the
   equivalent of withdrawal symptoms when (for whatever reason) you cannot 
   read for an extended period? 

I suppose if being bored out of my wits counts as a withdrawal symptom,
then yes.

I've been aware that I sometimes am guilty of spending too much time
on escapist reading material at the expense of "having a life" of my
own.  During a stressful period in my life couple of years back, I
found myself devouring two or three genre novels every night in an
attempt to forget about my other problems, for example.

-Sandra
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: msmorris@watsci.UWaterloo.ca (Mike Morris)
Subject: Re: A holiday reading
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 15:13:41 GMT

                                      Friday, the 25th of December, 1992

Mark Taranto writes:
  Perhaps he can be remembered as well.

Who?

(We managed our ritual bravely, but only after we accepted an invitation
to go carol-singing in a horse-drawn cart. We got the kids to bed
by 11:30 and reached the final ``God bless us, every one!'' at
2:30. Caffeine in the coffee this Christmas morning.)


            Mike Morris
       (msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca)
From: ian@spider.co.uk (Ian Heavens)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: need: books on Henri Matisse (was Re: Great gift books for me!)
Date: 27 Dec 92 15:45:00 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK


In article <1992Dec23.175726.17762@grebyn.com> Fiona Webster,
fi@grebyn.com writes:
>I'm gonna be makin' a trek up to NYC for the Matisse exhibit in
>early January, and I'd very much like to bone up before I go.
>So, I could use some help in my efforts to _chasser_les_fauves_,
>as it were :-)--that is, some recommendations for good books on
>the subject.  Given the source of the suggestion, the Elderfield
>sounds like a good start (could you say a bit more about it, Keith?).
>I'm especially interested in books with more words than pictures--
>those that emphasize art criticism and art history with a special
>focus on Matisse and his influences/followers.  I'd prefer things
>that are easy to find and also in paperback, but rare or expensive
>recommendations are also OK, 

"Matisse in Morocco" is a very interesting book.  I forget the author
and publisher, but it is one of those coffee-table size art books (Phaidon
Press?).  The pictures are nice, too.  It costs 28 pounds here.

ian

---
	 Ian Heavens			ian@spider.co.uk                 
 	 Spider Software
 	 Spider Park, Stanwell Street		
	 Edinburgh, EH6 5NG, Scotland	+44 31 555 5166 (Ext 4347)
--
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: JAZ lodges a complaint. Was non-rabelaisian farts
Date: 28 Dec 1992 04:23:19 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

Joann Zimmerman writes:

	Francis Muir writes (of some remarks by Mike Godwin):

		In any case, with Chaucer living some one and a half 
		centuries before Rabelais, the notion of refering to 
		Geoffrey Chaucer as "Rabelaisian" approaches a gaffe 
		of formidable proportions.

	I refer Francis (yet again) to David Lodge's _Small World_, in 
	which the hero accidentally states that he is writing a monograph 
	on the influence of T.S.Eliot on Shakespeare. He is later 
	convinced by some of his fellow academics that this is indeed 
	a fruitful idea.

Now let me see, isn't Lodge the one who is funny, Catholic and gay? 
I suppose if Zimmers says to read, then read I shall, since I know
no bookworm who sports her erudition with such grace.

							RABworm
From: nichael@bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: John Sayles
Date: 23 Dec 92 22:47:10 GMT
Reply-To: ncramer@bbn.com
Organization: BBN, Cambridge MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: kariba.bbn.com
In-reply-to: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu's message of 23 DEC 92 15:29:20 GMT

In article <23DEC92.15292011@vax.clarku.edu> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:

   ....  Has anyone read Sayles' other novels, and if so, which
   would they recommend?  How about his short stories?

I read _Union Dues_ some years back and liked it quiet a bit.  (Living
in Cambridge helped.)

Nichael
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: Good Westerns
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:20:29 GMT

Ted Samsel writes:

>Last summer I read a book by a woman on the English faculty
>at Duke that was (if I have percieved it correctly) a nostalgic
>deconstruction of the Western as a genre; I can't recall the
>title but the author makes a case for the Western being a
>reaction to the 'overly parental' doctrine of social goodness
>that was (and still is) rampant amongst those who would wish
>to 'improve' society. (If that were possible).....

	Jane Tompkins, *West of Everything*

>   The "well meaning" social improvers (for the causes of 
>temperance, etc.) were (in her opinion) challenged by Wister's
>THE VIRGINIAN and its offspring......The easterner brought
>West to cure neurasthenia and thus adopt the Rooseveltian
>"vigorous life is entangled in this....will continue later.
>Mainframe going down.....
>-- 
>Ted....
	I read this and enjoyed most of it. I was prepared to dislike
on simple prejudices, Tompkins is the wife of Stanley Fish and I heard
tales of her grad classes on Melville, yet I did like and agree with
most of it. I think it falls to pieces in the last chapter but I
appreciated her open-minded enjoyment of the accomplishment of Louis
L'Amour. Also, there is very little theorizing and no obscure critical
locutions. Tompkins thought the Western novel and movie a stupid genre
but after some time looking at it decided that there was much that was
worthwhile and a lot that was illuminating.

Keith
--

Keith Morgan kamorgan@athena.mit.edu
In the end nothing could be said of his work except that it was
preposterous and true and totally unacceptable. Edward Whittemore
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: Born in Bethlehem?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 02:51:30 GMT

		Laura Mollett mistypes:
		she went into the stable and placed the child in a manager,
		and an ox and a donkey worshiped him.

	Brian Hanafee notes:

	One of the better typos I've seen this month.

Yes, probably the winner but I also liked Mark Leeper's review of *Hoffa*
where he writes about "Hoffa's pubic face." Jack Nicholson - not a
method actor. 

	Keith
>--
>Brian Hanafee                         Advanced Decision Systems
>bhanafee@ads.com                      1500 Plymouth Street
>(415) 960-7300                        Mountain View, CA 94043-1230


--

Keith Morgan kamorgan@athena.mit.edu
In the end nothing could be said of his work except that it was
preposterous and true and totally unacceptable. Edward Whittemore
From: spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu (Steve Pope)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Homeschooling
Date: 2 Jan 1993 06:30:28 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley -- ERL
NNTP-Posting-Host: zion.berkeley.edu

In article <C07pnL.M01@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca> msmorris@watsci.UWaterloo.ca (Mike Morris) writes:
>                                    Friday, the 1st of January, 1993
>
>Barbara Hlavin writes:
>  If I demur at any aspect of home-schooling, it would be on Mark's 
>  ground of insufficient socialization.  
>
>Barbara, I wish I had ... a book for every time someone has mentioned
>socialization in response to my stating plans to homeschool. I think
>it's kind of amazing really that we are so quick to think of spending
>8 hours a day in a classroom with 30 other kids our own age as normal.
>Or at least as natural.

"Normal" and "natural" are loaded terms.

Obviously, on one level, the public school system is an
artificial, unnatural invention of society...

On the other hand, so is any version of homeschooling that
anybody is likely to come up with.  So we're back to 
square one...

"Socialization" is another loaded term, but I agree with
Barbara, in that this comes close to a big reason I am
unhappy to see the demise of public education.  Which is
that in the past, the social experience of public schools,
GOOD public schools, was something that most Americans
held in common with each other.  I'm not saying I'm
opposed to diversity, but those who went to parochial
schools, or prep schools, or whatever, missed out on
something POSITIVE that the rest of the country shared:
and at least among my generation, it shows, well
into adulthood.  I don't believe there's anything wrong with 
alternatives, but if they were my children I'd want 
to be damned sure that the alternatives offer something at 
least as positive as the standard approach.

People can get fixated on the negatives of public education,
and lose sight of the big picture.

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.written,news.answers
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Request: History books
Date: 22 Dec 1992 15:34:00 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: gondolin.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1h79vvINN7fr@meaddata.meaddata.com> joem@meaddata.com  
(Joe Mehrle) writes:
> I am new to this group so excuse me if I am not following protocol.
> I am determined to self-educate myself extensively on American  
History
> and Politics.  So, I want to develop a list of books to read  
starting
> with the Magna Carta period (1254 ?) and working up through the  
Bush
> years.  So, to all the informed readers out there I would greatly
> appreciate your recommendations via e-mail, especially books  
starting
> with the Magna Carta era up through the civil war.  Thanks in  
advance.
> 

Which Civil War?  On one hand, you mention American history,
so this would lead me to believe you mean American Civil War.
However, you are also talking about Magna Carta, so perhaps
you mean the English Civil Wars.  Please clarify.

Also, how many books do you want for each period. I could
easily recommend half a dozen good books on the period 1776-1790
and a dozen on the American Civil War and the times leading up
to it.

----
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jw2b@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Sara J. Wagner)
Subject: Re: 92 in rabreview
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 21:45:16 GMT


Well, I average a book a day, and two or three on weekends, so I'm
probably closing in on 400 for the year.  A lot of those are re-reads,
though, which don't take as much concentration or time.  (I can
usually finish a book over my lunch hour and at supper.)

--
Jane Wagner, Computer Systems and Publications Assistant
The Claude Moore Health Sciences Library| INTERNET: jw2b@virginia.edu
Box 234, UVA Health Sciences Center	| PHONE:    804-924-0188
Charlottesville, VA  22908 		| BITNET:   jw2b@virginia.bitnet
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Non-rabelaisian farts were flatulence was Ngaio Marsh
Date: 22 Dec 92 16:55:35 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) wrote:
> Leslie Troutman answers:
> 	Mikw Godwin asks:
> 		I'm trying to think of some non-Rabelaisian pieces 
> 		about farting. Are there any?
> 	There is a Mark Twain short story, the name of which escapes 
> 	me at present.  It's *very* bawdy and hilarious.
> It probably won't do. Its Rabelaisian. Actually, we have a problem. It is
> difficult to imagine anything about farting that is not either Rabelaisian
> (by Godwin's definition this included the Miller's Tale) or medical.  In
> what civilization has farting not been a joke?

I guess we have to find something that comes from right outside the
tradition Rabelais was part of.  An anecdote which I think comes from
Wilfred Thesiger's "Arabian Sands" suggests there may be such: farting in
public used to be deeply shameful in Arab society.  Thesiger describes
a man, X, who had the misfortune to fart at a banquet presided over by his
tribal chief, and went into exile as result.  Many years later, thinking
his disgrace had been expiated, he returned home.  On the edge of the town
he met a teenage boy, and asked him how old he was...  "I don't know, but
I was born in the year that X farted at the chief's banquet".  X turned
round and sadly went back into the desert.

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Homeschooling (was  Re: Education and the Environment by Gregory A. Smith)
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<1992Dec31.152903.25127@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>
	<31DEC92.17162343@vax.clarku.edu> <1hvedcINNdg4@agate.berkeley.edu>
Date: 31 Dec 92 11:26:16

Steve Pope posts:

     And what really bugs me is that the people who are killing
     public education by pulling their kids out of public schools
     have the audacity to blame the problem on "liberal educators
     with their social agendas" and other imagined demons.

I don't understand about "audacity".  People could conceivably be
mistaken in believing that "liberal educators with their social
agendas" are miseducating their children, but if they believe that,
what is "audacious" about withdrawing their children.  Does someone
have a right to these children that the parents are violating?

We have on this newsgroup a proposed social agenda that I consider
harmful.  So far as I can, it isn't too bad in the Palo Alto School
District yet.

--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:22999 sci.philosophy.tech:4604
From: cj137@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jack Jeffries)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Technical/Science Books 1900-1940s <===========
Date: 31 Dec 1992 14:46:06 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


I have a bunch of Technical/Scientific books dating from 1900 
through 1940s. Anyone intereted?
From: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: 92 in rabreview
Date: 1 Jan 1993 05:13:05 GMT
Organization: The Sinister Icy Black Hand of Death Club
Reply-To: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
NNTP-Posting-Host: tornado.berkeley.edu
Originator: goldfarb@tornado.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec31.080154.12675@csusac.csus.edu> yarnot@babbage.csus.edu (Jan Yarnot) writes:
)I really HATE finding pictures in my books, 
)unless they're kiddie-books.  I was going great guns through Gordon Dickson's
)"Dorsai" series when I collided with a picture book, and it put
)me off the rest. 
)--
)---Jan Yarnot

	Was that _The Spirit of Dorsai_? If so, then it did you a favor --
the Dorsai books published after that one have been pretty dreadful.

	If you want to read the Dorsai series, read _Dorsai!_, _Necromancer_,
_Tactics of Mistake_, and _Soldier, Ask Not_ in that order. Then stop.

-- 
   David Goldfarb          | 
goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu  |      "Hey, mister! Your ninja's dragging!" 
goldfarb@UCBOCF.BITNET     | 
goldfarb@soda.berkeley.edu |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: joan@med.unc.edu (Joan Shields)
Subject: Re: Sjowall & Wahloo and other series
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 20:52:13 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.155425.8247@speedy.aero.org> nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel) writes:

>In article <1992Dec29.001118.10561@eff.org> mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:

>>Many people compare Ed McBain's police procedurals to the Sjowall/Wahloo
>>books. Me, I like McBain, but I believe that much more planning went into
>>the Swedish novels, which were conceived and executed as a 10-book series.
>>I strongly recommend that they be read in chronological order, starting
>>with ROSEANNA. Those who want to sample McBain's 87th Precinct novels can
>>do no better than to start with ICE.

>To be fair, Sjowall and Wahloo were journalists who set out to use the
>crime novel as a way to explore what they saw as the deterioration in
>Swedish society caused by the welfare state.

They did a damn good job of it as well.  I enjoy the series because of the
well-developed characters they aren't always one way or another ie:
sometimes Lennart Kollberg can be an ass and sometimes you just want to
shake Martin Beck - Gunvald Larsson is a very interesting character, a lot
more complex than most of his fellow policemen realize.  There's very
little "preaching" (one of the reasons Nicholas Freeling's books turned me
off) - it's shown more often that told.  I like the plots, they hang
together and sometimes come out messy.  No one is perfect, there are blind
allys and times when they ignore their imagination (Melander mentions this
in _The Fire Engine that Disappeared_) and doggedly go after what seems
closest at hand (ie: in the aforementioned book, the search for Bertil).
I recommend them to anyone interested in a good psychological profile -
appreciation of good characters, an excellent police procedural, and very
good writing.  

Heather mentioned the Janwilliem Van der Wetering series again.  I really
liked these.  They're much lighter in tone than the Beck books but they're
good stories just the same.  They are vey Zen.  _Mr. Sati's Satori_
(spelled something like that) is also a good one.  _The Sergant's Cat and
Other Stories_ is also very entertaining though darker than the novels,
some are boarderline horror.

Another is Georges Simeon's Maigret series.

All in all, though, I prefer the Martin Beck books.  I've tried some US
police procedurals but have never really gotten into them.  I don't know
why I like the European ones so much....

Oh, almost forgot - anyone know anything about Robert J. Randisi?  He
writes or wrote some US police procedurals and private detective novels.
I read one of his short stories in a collection I ran across.  The short
story was good so I thought I'd give his novels a try.

Yours in wet fishes and near misses,

Joan