HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Frederick Exley
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 03:13:16 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.215759.15448@microsoft.com> dante@microsoft.com (throated plaid) writes:
>I heard recently that the author Frederick Exley
>(_A_Fan's_Notes_) has passed away. Has anyone
>seen an obituary, eulogy, or some kind of 
>article about Exley's death? 

I haven't seen a good eulogy of Exley. But it seems to me that
Frank Gifford owes him one.


--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,     |"Of the many definitions of poetry, the   
mnemonic@eff.org | simplest is still the best: 'memorable speech.'" 
(617) 864-0665   | 
EFF, Cambridge   |                     --W.H. Auden
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Great last sentences
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:04:51 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Dickens Studies

Paul Roberts writes, in response to my quote from _Tale of Two Cities_:


>OK, that *is* a great opening sentence. But in general I tend
>to think that the trouble with Dickens is "too many words!".

It's kind of like the Emperor in Shaffer's _Amadeus_, after hearing
_Abduction from the Seraglio_ for the first time:

"Oh, it's very good, Mozart, it's just that, that .... it has too many
notes, that's it, too many notes."

(from memory)
--
Keith Morgan		      | Just because your voice reaches half-
MIT Libraries                 | way around the world doesn't mean
kamorgan@athena.mit.edu	      | you are wiser than when it reached 
                              | only to the end of the bar. Ed Murrow
From: rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Job and melodrama
Date: 24 Jul 92 09:37:17 GMT
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada


   Someone in the Sinclair discussion mentioned Job so I thought I'd
start a new thread. This person stated that the book of Job was one
of the most  melodramatic things he had read and very troubling for
Christians. 

   As to the  meldrama, this is a ridiculous statement. For something
to be melodramatic there has to be an unbelievable level of drama used
for the sole purpose of manipulating emotion. The book of Job is about
the devil doing (almost) everything in his power to make Job's life
miserable. What can't the devil do? If you accept the story's parameters
(the existence of God and Satan) then there's nothing melodramatic or
unrealistic about it. Furthermore, the book of Job is more of a
philosophical dialogue between Job and his three friends (and a fourth
who comes in later on). "Melodramatic" is usually used to refer to 
actions and events. 90% of the book of Job is dialogue about the
agony of suffering and Job's righteousness and (in his friend's eyes)
his inevitable sin. 

    There's nothing wrong with using terms like melodrama, but before
you use them, please know what you're talking about. 

    As for the book being troubling for Christians, I don't see why it
would. Job's faith is rewarded in the end. The book seems to me to be
about the importance of faith even in the most desperate conditions...
faith which is inevitably rewarded.

   Pretty troubling, huh?

   Sigh.


--
Richard J. Rauser    "Sonic 2!"
rauser@sfu.ca             -what Guile says
WNI
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: Strippers & Tom Robbins
Keywords: Alzheimer's disease
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 00:15:29 GMT

Lauren L. Crawford writes:

	Here's an idea.  How about moving this thread OFF of 
	rec.arts.books???

You mean, cut out this clit stuff? But isn't clitoridectomy incorrect?

	Granted, it's a diversion from, say, Milton, although 
	Tom Robbins would probably have something to add.

I think Milton was more of a touchie-feelie guy. A front row guy.
Tom Robbins gave an incredibly funny reading of one of his new
oeuvres on Pubic Radio yesterday. Something to do with a Russian
emigre family who had all their toes amputated in Berlin due to
frostbite. 

						Fido
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: gb661@thor.albany.edu (BROADWELL GEORGE AARON)
Subject: Re: Spoilers - continuing discussion, part 2
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 19:11:10 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.165152.26088@leland.Stanford.EDU> gere@umunhum.stanford.edu (Susan Gere) writes:
>Mark Taranto writes:
>>
>>gere@umunhum.stanford.edu (Susan Gere) writes:
>>
>>> I *did* find _The French Lieutenant's Woman_ intensely annoying when
>>> the book itself used this reality-switching technique, however. Texts
>>> ought to keep their places.
>>
>>I do not share Susan's view.  THE FRENCH LIEUTENANT'S WOMAN was one of
>>the first books that I read, when I decided to start reading again.
>>Consequently, I had few expectations about how a text ought to behave.
>>I rather like texts that get out of line.
>>
>
> On further thought it may have been not so much the form of narrative 
>used as other factors which led to my reaction. For one, the Virgin/Whore 
>thing leaves me quite cold. And I was horrified at the time by a history
>graduate student I knew whose (I judged) dysfunctional romantic notions
>so enamored her of the book that she wanted to incorporate it into the
>seminar she was teaching (totally inappropriately in the case, IMHO).
>
When I was an undergraduate at the Univ. of S. Carolina, *The French
Lieutenant's Woman* was assigned for the honors geology class.  Why?
Because the main character is a geologist, and the book strongly 
emphasizes the ways in which the results of geology were challenging
accepted notions about the Bible, the age of the earth, etc.

I always appreciated our professor assigning that book, because it helped
bridge the gap between the sciences and the humanities.  At that point in
my life, I had little interest in science, but I have become increasingly
more fascinated by as time goes by.


Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:13455 rec.arts.sf.misc:2285 rec.humor:24883
From: sheila@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (sheila)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor
Subject: gravity (Re: ... did Isaac Asimov die?)
Date: 30 Jul 92 16:09:30 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Jul27.215307.18813@spectra.com> 
johnson@spectra.com (boyd johnson) writes:
>>But do atheists _go_ anywhere when they die?
>
>If I jump out of a plane because I don't believe in gravity does that
>mean I'll float in the air forever?

grrrr. grrr. grrrrrrrr. grr.grrrr grrrr. 

You just had to bring O NOBLE GR-VT- into this.

_Gravitation_ Misner Thorne and Wheeler
_Some title I forget... Robert M Wald (but it has a nice picture on
the cover)
_The ABC of Relativty_ Bertrand Russel, although, mainly
I recommend this book because he has this funny mental picture in
it of a fellow living in a hot air balloon during fourth of july fire
works being able to understand Albert Einstein's point of view.

Speaking of Robert M Wald, he does have a nice, non text book,
_Space, Time and Gravity_ I think, but I probably have mixed up
the title.

A good introductory text for GR is _A First Course in General Relativty_
by Bernard M Schutz. I've read the first chapter, I'm not ready to learn
GR yet. I need to get down the math. This book also introduces the
math. He has some nice jokes in the first chapter, but I've been told
he is mostly serious the rest of the way. 

A book that I like mostly because the author made cartoons at the beginning
is _Relativity in Illustrations_ by ... I've forgotten his name. It is
very simply and I've given it to my little brother who has suddenly started
growing tall. He hasn't mentioned whether he likes it yet. It mostly covers
special relativity.

It's been a while since I compiled a list of books on relativity. I've
forgotten a lot of names. I remember reading _A brief History of Time_
it has some stuff at the beginning about special relatity I think, but
by the time I started reading that book I was intensly interested in the
second half of it so I skipped the first section.

O, I enjoyed _The First Three Minutes_ after _A brief History of Time_
and also, I enjoyed reading the first chapter of a book by Linde, 
_Inflationary Cosmology_ or _Inlfationary Quantum Cosmology_ actually
 Ican't remember the title. it also has a nice compilation of drawings
in an appendix.

I haven't really studied all this stuff as best as possible. I will
be devoting much more time to it. I am sure that many other people could
give much better recomendations.

Niven has a short story called Neutron Star.

Tidal forces are interesting, I like wondering about tidal time and if
an imaginary object could withstand the differential gravity long enough
what would the effects of the differential time be?
there are so many interesting questions. I am only a sophomore. sigh.

suppose it is silly for me to respond to a joke like this.

Also, please note what is said, "don't believe in gravity"
-- 
stark raving sane!   sheila@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology
From: pw15@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Philip  Wang)
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Reply-To: pw15@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Philip  Wang)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 22:00:35 GMT


>I think people put too fine a point on this.   Agnostics proudly stand up
>and say that there is no way one can know for sure, but the fact is
>that the vast bulk of them do not believe there is a god, and thus
>in my book they are athiests, (literally non-theist.)
>The number of athiests who state that they know there is a god and that
>it is impossible that there be any sort of god is small.   The Objectivists
>are about the only ones I have met of that stripe.
>Most athiests and agnostics are the same.  They think there is no god,
>they admit it is possible but unlikely and that nobody knows for certain.
>There's no difference between them.
>-- 
>Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366

My perspective here is that atheist seems to be derogatory and agnostic more
positive in the sense that I find in my experience atheists out to prove that
God doesn't exist while agnostics don't think there is a God, but they don't
discount the possibility of God's existence and therefore don't try to prove
anything (or don't try as hard). I'm agnostic, but I don't try to prove that
there is no such thing as dieties or supernatural beings (I do believe in
ghosts). My point being that the way I see it, atheists are definite that God
doesn't exist and agnostics just aren't sure and choose not to believe in God
as sort of a default. At least that's what I do.

Sorry, can't think of any jokes. Maybe next time.

philip

"Inside the power cage, I can feel the music call my rage
It's paranoid, first degree. It's telling me that I'm not free.
I've got heavy metal music in my blood and I like to get it to you if I could"
-Holocaust, "Heavy Metal Mania" ||||||||| pw15@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu |||||||||
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)
Subject: Re: The Conquest
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 01:09:37 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <Bry88w.55z@watserv1.waterloo.edu> msmorris@watsci.waterloo.edu (Mike Morris) writes:
>
> 	And I found one you haven't mentioned!?!
> 		_The War of Conquest, How It Was Waged Here in Mexico_
> 		"The Aztecs' Own Story As Given to Fr. Bernardino
> 		de Sahagun, Rendered into Modern English by
> 		Arthur J. O. Anderson and Charles E. Dibble",
>        	U. of Utah Press, 1978, ISBN 0-87480-111-7
>
>I would love to find a copy of Sahagun complete.
>... It's my understanding that Sahagun's work complete is multivolume.
>

	Well, I went to Zimmerman library today, and wonder of wonders,
	there it was:  the complete Florentine Codex, General History
	of the Things of New Spain, Fray Bernardino de Sahagun, xlated
	and etc. by Anderson and Dibble, 1982, in 13 volumes.
	Here are the details: ISBN 0-87480-165-6 (Introduction and Index)
	ISBN 0-87480-082.X (Set); Order from University of Utah Press,
	Salt Lake City, Utah 84112.  Says 1,200 copies printed, so
	better hurry.

	Anyway, it looks gorgeous. Each volume has the original Nahuatl
	and the xlation side by side, with the original pictures, and notes.
	Looks like I'm the first one to crack the binding on them.
	As the editors say:
		Sahagun produced an unbelievably thorough ethnographic
		work, precocious in applying today's anthropolgical
		methods over four hundred years ago, when humanistic
		studies were still confined [to the Trivum and Quadrivium].
	I'll read the first volume tonight!

	Now, for those who are only interested in the Conquest itself,
	the volume I mention at the top is the one to get, as, though it
	is simply the 12th volume of the Codex, it has the text rearranged
	to be more readable (without the Nahautl), more notes, and
	the pictures are interspersed to follow the text they belong
	with, rather than collected together, as in the scholarly edition.

	I also picked up Gomara on Cortes, two by las Casas (In Defense
	of the Indians; The Devastation of the Indies, A Brief Account),
	and the letters of Cortes.  There were several editions of 
	Diaz del Castillo, some abriged, some not.  I picked an unabridged
	version xlated by Keatinge, which has nice large type.

>                Mike Morris
>          (msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca)

Roger Squires
rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: What Katy Did to Little Men
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 05:12:12 GMT

Jennifer Heise writes:

	Lenore Levine writes:

		Little Men (by Louisa May Alcott) was the first "adult" 
		(that is, non-primer) book I read, when I was about five 
		or six. I believed Plumfield was real and wandered all 
		around the neighborhood looking for it.

		My question is: Has anyone read the book recently? How well 
		does it stand up?

	Last winter, I went on an Alcott kick and reread Little Women
	-- Beth still brings me to tears, however corny it may seem, and 
	Laurie & Jo's last fight also. Then I reread Little Men and Jo's 
	Boys.  Little Men stands up better than you would expect. Little 
	Women doesn't need to stand up, it just IS. Little Men seems to be 
	a prototype of some modern progressive school.

There is now, of course, a whole new genre of Young Adult novels that Alcott
must have inspired. Curiously they are much more prissy than the original --
quite nasty.

I have vague childhood memories of *What Katy Did* and the sequel, *What
Katy Did Next*. Does anyone remember more about these? Their dates? Were
they pre-Alcott?

						Fido
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Nobel winners
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 02:43:17 GMT

> vince@cadence.com (Vince Gibboni) writes:
>> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>>
>> Churchill wrote two multivolume works: _A History of the English Speaking
>> Peoples_ and _The Second World War_.  It was for the former work, not
>> the latter, tha the Nobel Prize was awarded, wasn't it?  
>
>    I'm fairly certain that the prize was awarded for (or at least 
>    specifically mentioned) _The Second World War_ series...

According to "The People's Almanac"...

"Despite protests from literary purists that Churchill
was more a politico than an author, the judges stood
firm.  They insisted that he was an author in the
tradition of Burke and Disraeli.  They pointed to his
reportage from India and the Sudan, his biography of
Marlborough, his epic history of WW2, his public
speeches ('How many flashing phrases...have been
imprinted in our consciousness!')."
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: snow@netcom.com (Tim Szeliga)
Subject: Delillo & Precognition Was Re: Mao II by Don DeLillo
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 13:20:19 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: rec

Delillo					Reality
-------------------------------------------------------

Rumors of home movies of Hitler		Rumors of Hitler Diaries stir
stir the media  -- Running Dog		European media


Radial Matrix, a CIA-front 	  	The Radial Corp. is indicted in
company discovers the profit motive.    CIA activities (1992)
                -- Running Dog

A Toxic event forces mass evac-		Duluth and Superior are evacuated
uations.  - White Noise			due to chemical spill. (1992)


First woman Hockey player in NHL	MN woman on UMN team, may turn pro(1992)
          -  Amazons

Shaver Stevens diagnosed with		Oliver Sacks describes same disease
Jumping Frenchmen.
          -  Amazons
From: mecca@acsu.buffalo.edu (Starkitty)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Gothic, Decadent books...
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:36:32 GMT
Organization: WFFT ub's ONLY student station

I just recently read Bret Easton Ellis' Less Than Zero and found that I
enjoyed literary dark demons in humans.. anyone have suggestions on what
books I should read next?

--Renee
From: barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Or Shakespeare either (was: I don't like Dickens...so sue me!
Date: 23 Jul 92 12:28:24 GMT
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute

>>SubGenius writes:

>Funny, I've never really regarded classes as the premium mode of learning.  
>Although it is sometimes nice for someone else to tell you at what pace you 
>should be internalizing something, in general I've found that I pick up things 
>better if left to my own devices.
>
You're more disciplined than I am.  Left to my own devices, I read novels
(but not with any particular goal or plan in mind) or play computer games
or read news.  I like the structure of a class; if I didn't have assignments,
I might never do anything academic.  It's really difficult for me to get
started writing, for instance, but once I do, I hate it until I come up with
a satisying thesis; then I love it.

>I dispair that our educational system is educating its students.
....
>This young (had to be a freshman) lad a sitting a ways in front of me raises
>his hand, the prof. recognises the gesture and takes the young man's question, 
>"What's a Nazi?"
>
>And this pup is in *college*, mates.

A few years back at IBM (where I co-op), one young conservative said the 80's
were nice because Lennon died.  (aargh) Another thought he meant Lenin.


-- 
Barclay Elizabeth Blanchard    barclay@rail9000@gatech.edu
"I've been laughed at by some of the funniest people."
--Lissie, Alice Walker's _The Temple of My Familiar_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: fehr@ms.uky.edu (Jeff Davis)
Subject: Or Shakespeare either (was: I don't like Dickens...so sue me!
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:48:31 GMT
Organization: Loose Affiliation of Millionaires and Billionaires and Baby

rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
>
>>Different tastes I guess (but I still can't understand anyone having a taste
>>for Shakespeare - I know, burn me at the stake as a heathen, pluck out my
>>eyes, but off my head............)
>
>    I'm tempted...:-). I can't imagine anyone not appreciating the genius
>behind Shakespeare's work. 
>
  [etc. deleted]

A year or two ago, one of rec.arts.* Noble Sons and I discussed in
animated terms just how viable the Bard's plays were as Plays for Today.  
He pushed forward the Pro Willie, I the contrary position. We each walked
away the victor considering that we walked away with our original 
positions unchanged. I like Shakespeare as Reading Matter, haven't 
wavered in that since memorizing Portia's yabba-dabba-doo speech
for sophomore English, even before -- extraneously added -- the 
Beatles played Shea Stadium. But I can understand why wading through
the annotations might not be everyone's choice. Life is short and
Shakespeare, more than most authors, comes to us 2nd hand. The
orginal poster seemed to be up to the eyebrows in Literature 
anyway. No harm done by leaving all that Genius to others.
-- 
Jeff Davis <davis@keats.ca.uky.edu> 
Coach of the Fighting Thundercats 
Member of the Chelsea Clinton Fan Club  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith)
Subject: Re: What happens to authors when they die
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 23:13:28 GMT

Mark Taranto writes:
	 
	There seems to be a lot of speculation about where Isaac Asimov
	ended up.  A number of people seem to be saying that since he was
	an atheist, he won't go anywhere.
	 

			<< stuff deleted, of course >>


	Well -- books, yes -- I'm sure there is something out there that
	applies.




On several recommendations from r.a.b.oids I recently read a collection
of James Tiptree short stories.  There was one about a man who shot himself
then got up and walked out of his house and into a small town.  He then
meets other people at a truck stop, etc. etc.

It, and two or three of the other stories, persist.




William Sburgfort Smith
Intel, SSD

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox)
Subject: Re: Mao II by Don DeLillo
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 03:09:43 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: rec

In article <1992Jul21.162837.13887@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> emzx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
>Just finished Don DeLillo's "Mao II" - and I must say I'm sort of disappointed.
> This is the first DeLillo I read, and although he is a good writer, he's very
>slow and painstaking, describing, circumscribing, never really getting to the
>point.
>
>This is a good question, though, I think: what exactly is the POINT of Mao II? 

	That fiction is not expository prose and should not be judged as 
such.


-- 
				Tom Maddox
		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
		   "I swear I never heard the first shot"
                Wm. Gibson, "Agrippa:  a book of the dead"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books