From: lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga vs. rec.arts.comics.manga
Date: 7 Apr 92 19:20:02 GMT
Organization: Living in a satellite fantasy, waiting for the night to end.

limkiong@vms2.iscs.nus.sg (Twas brillig, and the slithy toves...) writes:

> This has been explained in many ways by many people. Manga is sequential
> art.  But r.a.c is devoted to the discussion of Western comics. 

Not by design, it isn't.  Have you ever used a library?  "Comics" is a
*classification*, not a moral judgement on the content of the book. 
"Comics" is a general term that describes most forms of sequential art;
"Manga" is a specific subclassification that describes the Japanese form
and tradition of sequential art.  If r.a.c was called "rec.arts.western-
comics" then you might have a case.  It's not.  You don't.  

>> I have yet to hear one convincing argument why manga should get their
>> own subhierarchy rise above the resounding chorus of "Becaaaauuuuuuse!"
>> that continues to come from the manga fans.    
>
> Perhaps it is because u don't listen? And might I suggest that it might
> be because of your own prejudices? 

True enough; I freely admit that I'm prejudiced against folks who want to
circumvent the net's existing classification system merely to keep their
egos happy. 

> I believe that the majority of manga fans (and thus subscribers of the
> newsgroup) would prefer the rec.arts.manga newsgroup, because of the
> existing hierarchy of the newsgroup. 

That may in fact be true, but it doesn't necessarily follow that what they
want is what is beneficial to the long-term organization of the net. 

dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (David C Blume) writes:

> It is far easier to follow the trend of the
> currently existing hierarchy:
>
> rec.arts.animation / rec.arts.anime // rec.arts.comics / rec.arts.manga 

This situation exists because the "anime" newsgroup was created before the
more general "animation" newsgroup was.  It is an accident of timing, not
a planned design.  The anime newsgroup belongs in the animation hierarchy
just as much as the manga group belongs in the comics hierarchy. 

> Wouldn't comics subscribers oppose rec.arts.manga.comics? 

Of course they would.  Newsgroup names are supposed to go from the general
to the specific, not the other way 'round.  Rec.arts.manga.comics loses as
big as rec.food.coca-cola.soft-drinks or soc.religion.baptist.protestant. 
(As if there were some kind of Coke that *wasn't* a soft drink, or some
kind of Baptists who *aren't* protestant, or some kind of manga that
*aren't* comics.)

> There *is* an implication when making a subgroup as opposed to a
> neighbor group. 

The only implication is that rec.arts.comics could stand some minor
reorganization.  If you were to run a vote to rename r.a.c to (say)
rec.arts.comics.misc alongside a vote to create rec.arts.comics.manga,
I can almost guarantee you that both would pass.  You ought to work
towards a target that fixes the problem over the long term instead
of towards a quick-fix solution that leaves the rec.arts hierarchy
even more muddled than it is now.

> [sorry for restating an argument.  Lazlo didn't read it the 1st time]

I've been reading it over and over again; I might start taking it
seriously if someone recrafted it in a way that makes long-term sense. 

--
Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)

Turn up the DJ and let's get lost in Intergalactic Punk Rock Hip-Hop