HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hahn@plugh.network.com (Peter Hahn)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Western Boxing, how 'imprecise' is it ?
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:31:33 GMT
Organization: Network Systems Corporation


Oh, dear.  I seem to be making a dreadful muddle of this, as usual.

In article <1992Aug27.141628.26853@PA.dec.com> stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark) writes:
>
>"Western Pro Boxing training develops as much precision or
>more, as far as being able to consistently and repeatedly hit targets with 
>speed and power, as any martial art system ever devised."

Ok.  I think we are in basic agreement here.

>Clearly, above you're talking about one person's skill to target vs. another
>one's skill to evade, more than an intrinsic characteristic of techniques.
>I'm talking about comparing the inherent 'precision' cultivated by the art
>to any other training you'd like to name.   If it is imprecise, then you
>must have a relative measure, something more precise to compare it with ?

Oh.  Ok.  Now I understand the distinction you were drawing.

>What I'd really like to hear, is your idea of a martial artist who is
>MORE precise than, say, a middleweight or welterweight pro contender.
>Then, I'd like to see your impressions after that artist works a few
>minutes with the contender.  I'd want to know if you felt any differently
>about their relative ability to hit a target

I'm not as dumb as I look, Todd :-)!

>Or maybe we've just reached a point of impasse and comparing subjective 
>impressions ?

Well, actually, I think we're pretty much in agreement, now that I
understand how you are using the term precision.  Again, I probably
should have chosen a different term to begin with.

At any rate, where I work out, the lesson we are asked to draw from the
fact that boxers miss once in a while is not that boxers are less
precise than martial artists.  Rather, it is more like "That guy
trained eight hours a day for ten years.  He still can't bat better
than .500 with a *left* *jab*.  If you are trying something *more* complex,
how often do you think you'll really land it?"

-- 
Peter Hahn           |hahn@network.com|"...In Peking, he told me, there lived a
7600 Boone Ave. N    |+1 612 424-4888 |famous boxer who dropped down from three
Brooklyn Park, MN USA|                |stories onto an interior courtyard
55428                |                |without making a sound when he landed."
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: R3TLM@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU
Subject: help with soft arts?
Organization: The University of Akron
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 16:14:21 GMT

       I enjoy the soft arts more than the harder styles. As a matter
of personal opinions, which style do the readers feel is the best soft
style?
 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: pklauren@nmsu.edu (Patrick M Klaurens)
Subject: Re: JuJitsu and Karate - Is there a link ?
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 23:53:03 GMT

In answer to question one, in Kokondo we look for juijutsu responses
in our kata, not only throws, but locks as well.  Yes, the Pinans have
them, although our Pinan series are modified (I have activly compaired
them to Shotokan, as two of our members are ex-Shotokan) so as the
juijutsu techniques are more appearant.  Kokondo tries to emphasise
both the striking and grapling aspects of fighting; its founder was
the first occidental to recieve dan ranking in a (I can't remember the
name) classical juijutsu ryu.  E-mail for more specific info.
 doc
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan)
Subject: Offensive to non-dojo videotaped MA (was Re: NEW MARTIAL ART FOR THE STREET NOT THE DOJO )
Organization: ARINC Research
Date: 4 Sep 92 09:02:57


	OJNUNUNUNUNUNUNUUN!!!!!

	[tnfc! tnfc! tnfc!]

	Bxnl, V'z orggre abj.

	o...o...O...O..OJN..OJNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUUNUNUNUNUNUN!!!

	Gbhtu, "erny jbeyq fgerrg flfgrz" gnhtug ba ivqrbgncr. V pna or gur
gbhturfg thl ba ZGI!

	Cneqba zl ynpx bs unezbal naq qrpbehz...
--
	Stephen Chan
	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Activist shot at Berkeley Chancellor's home
Date: 1 Sep 92 16:37:53 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Reply-To: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
Summary: One man's excessive force is another man's goal-line stand
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   

Cherry goes up against the net armed only with a 40-column terminal and asks
the excellent question,

>To what extent should a police
>officer risk his or her life in order to try to 
>save the life of someone who is wielding a deadly 
>weapon?  

To which I might add, "In somebody else's bathroom, having broken in."
Says a lot about Berkeley that the issue is receiving so much discussion.

I don't claim to know everything about the situation.  (Who can?) But
if we're going to play "what if," we need to give a moment to the cop's
side, too.  He's confronting an intruder with a machete in the college
chancellor's toidy.  Maybe he could have blocked her attack with his
PR-24 and slugged her in the gut and taken her down without lethal force.
But what if she'd gotten through him, and he'd been lying there dead or
badly wounded while she went people-hunting through the rest of the house?

She might or might not have actually intended to assault rather than
vandalize and terrorize (as some acquaintances of hers have said in
the papers).  But under the circumstances, one can hardly blame the 
cop for assuming that she wasn't somebody from the grounds crew putting
in a little overtime to trim the begonias.

--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
From: doug@celia.UUCP (Doug Nichols)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Fencing
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:51:48 GMT
Reply-To: celia!doug@usc.edu (Doug Nichols)
Organization: Rhythm & Hues, Inc., Hollywood

In article <KRYSTEK.92Sep1085315@alcor.bms.com> krystek@alcor.bms.com (Stanley Krystek) writes:
>
>There is no doubt fencing is an art but compared to MA,  the  reflexes  MA
develops  >lends to more general benefits in coordination, fitness and self
confidence. >And combined the 2 arts just extend the martial  abilities  of
the partiicipant. > >stan >

	I haven't participated in more than one martial art, and I've
	stuck with fencing throughout. So, I have to disagree that any
	one martial art of any type is more or less likely to give
	greater or lesser benefits in, particularly, coordination and
	self confidence, fitness being a product of your work ethic.

	I think anything where you are well trained in a skill requiring
	exceptional hand-eye coordination and endless repetetive training
	is going to develop you in the overall coordination realm. If not,
	you're doing something wrong.

	As far as self confidence goes, I think again, train well in anything,
	and be able to prove to yourself that you are beginning to have some
	control or mastery of your art and skill, and the self confidence
	will come naturally. Although not a "practical" hand to hand fighting
	style, fencing has certainly provided me with enough self confidence
	to at least feel prepared to deal with any situation that comes along
	on the physical threat level. What are the primary needs? Good
	judgement, hand-eye coordination, timing, distance, speed, balance -
	all of these things can be had from any of the MA's discussed here...
	except maybe Greenoch or Run Fu, but let's not get into THAT one...

	Anyway, I think the primary factor is always the quality of the
	training you receive in whatever art you're studying. Someone here
	once mentioned in response to a query about what art to try for a
	beginner by telling them to first try and discover who, regardless
	of style, were the BEST instructors in their area.

	I think I agree that two arts could be a benefit. I tried at one point
	to branch out from fencing, and found I didn't have the energy to
	split my attention, fencing practice being, at that time, too
	demanding. I'll always be curious, I suppose, but I figured I'd stick
	with one, and try and get as good as I could.

Doug Nichols
Rhythm & Hues
Hollywood, CA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: darrell@nscf.org (Darrell Tangman)
Subject: Re: Judo in Minneapolis area
Organization: National Science Center Foundation
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 22:20:02 GMT

bobk2@CFSMO.Honeywell.COM (Bob Kyweriga) writes:

>        
> Can anyone supply me with information about judo dojos
> in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area?

> Especially interested in organizations that have sessions
> where kids ( 10 - 13 ) can participate.

The last time I was up there there was a Judo group practicing
a couple of times a week at Twin Cities Aikido Center, 2390
University Avenue in St. Paul.  They did have at least a couple
of kids in that age range a few years ago.  The folks at the
Aikido Center should be able to put you in touch with the Judo
group if they're still around.  Good luck.
--
Darrell Tangman -- darrell@galois.nscf.org
National Mathematics Center / National Science Center Foundation, Inc.
P.O. Box 15577, Augusta, GA, USA, 30919-1577
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman)
Subject: Re: Seeking Feedback (was Re: Shotokan misconceptions)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 10:02:26 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <1992Aug27.021009.17539@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> turnbull@ces.cwru.edu (John Turnbull) writes:
|In article <59815@mimsy.umd.edu> tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:
|>sbs@fns-nc1.fns.com (Syd B. Seifert) writes:
|>>
|>     This, I don't agree with. They're still human beings - broken, damaged
|>human beings, that present a threat to others, but still human beings. The
|>hope is maintained that their threat can be stopped and that these "broken"
|>individuals can be "repaired". Remember that many if not most abusers were
|>abused themselves.
|
|I have to admit that I do agree with Syd's original principle. They are still
|human, but I think the point is that under certain circumstances you have to
|stop being emotional, and be cold and unemotional.
|

What I don't get is, how *can* you be emotional?  Do you think,
"OhmyGod!  I'm gonna' have to hurt this poor seven-foot-tall 250 lb.
motorcycle-gang-type who wants very much to kill me.  I've never
hurt anyone before.  My phaser only goes to 'maximum stun'."  May I
submit that by the time you've thought that you may be dead?

Or did I really misunderstand something?

|John

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  ftit@engin.umich.edu   |   "... a stainless steel rat in the       |
|    (Sergej Roytman)     |  ferroconcrete wainscoting of Internet"   |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Say no to four-line .sigs.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans)
Subject: Tomiki aikido
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 15:47:20 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

There is a person near where I live offering instruction in
Tomiki aikido.  I am wondering if some of the net.aikidokas
might offer up some general comments on what Tomiki aikido
is relative to, say non-TOmiki aikido.

Charles YEomans
yeomans@austin.onu.edu
cyeomans@ms.uky.edu

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: carbon@bnrmtl.bnr.ca (Peter Carbon)
Subject: Silent or vocal sparring?
Summary: do you make noise when you fight?
Organization: Bell Northern Research Montreal, Canada.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 20:33:50 GMT

Hello fellow r.m-a'ers,

 Thought I might start a new thread about a subject that has been on
my mind for a while now. Is it useful to be vocal when sparring, i.e.
utter a fierce kiai as you strike or grunt as you block ?

 Having practised Goju Ryu karate I know that this style does introduce
kiais in its forms and practitioners are encouraged to do so while spar-
ring also. The style I practise now, Shorinjiryu Kenkokan, Does not have
this kind of vocal component and my senseis seem to think that it is a
waste of energy to utter kiais when fighting.

 Now I've tried both ways and it does seem more tiring to kiai when you
strike even though it may disconcert your opponent at first and give
you a slight advantage. It could be that there is some kind of subtlety
about kiais that I am missing however.

 So what do you people think? Is it better to fight silently, thereby
conserving energy, or to use kiais to perhaps disconcert your oppponent
and add more emphasis to a strike?

 Peter Carbon
 bnrmtl!carbon@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams)
Subject: Re: Western Boxing, how 'imprecise' is it ?
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 04:16:39 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.141628.26853@PA.dec.com> stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark) writes:
>
>I'd be interested to hear any quotes from any of them about how imprecisely
>they think their opponents targeted them.   Every such match I've seen left
>the karate guys looking foolish and awkward.   Not more precise, at all.
>Even those where they had some real skill and gave the boxer a decent fight,
>they certainly didn't seem to walk away unscathed from the imprecision
>of the pugilist.

Were the karate guys allowed to use their feet or were they forced to
fight the boxers in their own domain?

>							todd

-- 
Colin Adams       Honours Student - James Cook University of North Queensland
  "And if I seem a little strange, well that's because I am." - The Smiths
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Getting Involved
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:58:49 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Aug26.024901.6387@orionsci> goodwin@orionsci.UUCP (Ben Goodwin) writes:
>Wharfie got lucky.  He was IMHO (sorry Wharfie) acting foolish. 

	Absolutely.  That was my point.

>Its a nowin situation.  Leave it to the pros.  All MHO.

	Nope.  I simply can't stand by and see another person abused.  Sorry.



Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: hayesj@skyfox.usask.ca
Subject: NEW MARTIAL ART FOR STREET NOT THE DOJO
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:56:17 GMT

NOW THERE IS A MARTIAL ART DESIGNED FOR THE STREET NOT THE DOJO
NOW THERE IS A MARTIAL ART DESIGNED FOR THE STREET NOT THE DOJO
This new Martail Art deals with the reality and finality of street confontations
From: mwong@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Marilyn J Wong)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: QUESTION - ON WEAPONS
Date: 23 Aug 92 21:44:19 GMT
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server

Hi there inquiring mind,

The double straight edged sword (or straight sword) was considered a
woman's weapon or a weapon of a nobleman.  It is not meant for hacking
away at bodily limbs like most swords and the movements associated with
it are intricate and slicing.  The blades to these swords are very sharp
and it (ideally) does not take much to slice up an opponent.

The steel fan is of the same nature as the straight sword.  I don't know
a lot of dates for either of the above weapons' histories, but I do know
that 1) straight sword is a lot of fun to learn and 2) it is very hard
to find a legitimate teacher for steel fan. . .

A little about myself, I study Chinese Wu-shu, a modern version of
traditional Chinese kung-fu.  I specialize in the cudgel (staff), broad-
sword, and chang-chuan (long-fist).  Are there any fellow wu-shuists
out there???

Marilyn

mw@hpoemh
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar)
Subject: Re: did someone say invertebrate?
Reply-To: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 07:10:28 +0000



>>Does anyone have any defenses in case the worms return?
>
>First, use a light nukite strike to the worm's midriff - very gentle 
now,
>dont cut the poor wee thing in half like last time (you brute you).
>
>If you do the strike lightly enough, the effect will be to tickle
the
>beast, and you can then tell which end is the head, by watching to
>see which end is laughing.
>
>THEN...
>
>take your high-power magnifying glass, focus the sun onto its head,
> and roast the brains outa the critter (MWOA-HA-HA-HA...!)
>
>Of course if its raining, just wait till it drowns...
>
>tk


That's all very well for worms but slugs don't have a sense of
humour,
particularly when the are trying to break into my milk first thing in
the morning. What technique do you use against a very large slug on
top of your early morning pint. Personally I resorted to using a
weapon.
A small stick did the job, but the slug was not best pleased. Time
to load up my .22 with slug pellets, I think. ;-)


Bill Burgar
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: aalmague@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Alejandro E Almaguer)
Subject: Re: Brandon Lee and Company....
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: rec.martial-arts
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 05:07:30 GMT

In article <7rqy2p#@rpi.edu> chungy2@aix.rpi.edu (Yau Felix Chung) writes:
>
>Hello all!
>	I just saw "Rapid Fire" and was rather impressed with the
>fighting scenes there.  I was wondering if someone could tell me what is
>the philosophy behind JKD.  By that I mean that this movie, like the
>Bruce Lee movies, has amazingly fast fighting techniques while other
>MA films do not seem to be that way.  So I guess, my question is whether
>speed is the main emphasis of JKD.

Speed is not the main emphasis of JKD rather simplicity.  Quoting "The Tao of
Jeet Kune Do," :

         The art of Jeet Kune Do is to simplify.  Jeet Kune Do does not
         beat around the bush.  It does not take winding detours.  It
         follows a straight line to the objective.  **Simplicity is the
         shortest distance between two points**. 

Bruce felt that one should simply hit one's opponent.  No fancy stuff.

There's much more to it than that, however.  You should read his book
The Tao of Jeet Kune Do.  It gets very philosophical in regards to some things
and is at times hard to understand, but no MA should go without reading it.

As far as SPEED, Bruce was like lightning.  Yet, he said speed without proper
timing is useless.  Since he had both timing and speed, the faster his
punch the greater the force he inflicted on his opponents.  More simply put
JKD works best at higher speeds.  The simplicity in the techniques facilitates
this.


>	I have a video catalog that avertises JKD tapes by some guy named
>Jerry Poteet.  Does anyone know who he is and whether he is "one of the most
>Knowledgeable JKD men alive" (quote from D. Inosanto according to this
>catalog).  The series consists of 5 tapes 45 min. each.
>
>
>-F.

Read Bruce's book before you buy the tapes.  
 
 
                                           Alejandro Almaguer


---Take what is useful and develop from there.
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Different Karate Fist
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:01:00 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <SCHAN.92Aug28080201@birch.srg.af.mil> schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan) writes:
>In article <1992Aug27.144515.24787@exu.ericsson.se> exudms@exu.ericsson.se (New Dave) writes:
>
>   I'm not for shure I understand  what " the index finger folded over the fist"
>   is truely meant here but in Chinese Shao Lin we have what is called the
>   "Pheonix Eye fist". This is when you form a vertical fist with the index 
>   finger and thumb pressed together. This protrudes from the fist creating
>   a sharp point.
>
>	Nope, the pheonix-eye fist is something else - the Japanese ippon ken
>is functionally similar to the pheonix-eye fist - except that they use the 2nd
>knuckle of the middle finger, instead of the second knuckle of the index
>finger.

Not necessarily, Stephen. There are two variations of ippon-ken. One using the
index finger and one using the middle finger. Many styles use both, differentiating
between the two by callin the middle-finger version "nakadaka ippon-ken".

Steve
From: halvork@dhhalden.no (HALVOR KISE)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Info about Tony Browns Kung-Fu School
Date: 30 Aug 92 13:33:44 GMT
Organization: Ostfold College


I wonder if sombody have some information about Tony (Joseph Anthony) Brown.
He is an one armed Shao-lin Kung-Fu instructor from Ohio.
He have been present at all the latest NACMAF Championships.
ALL information woul'd be recived with gratitude.

I'm sorry for all misspellings.

- Halvor Kise jr.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Subject: T'ai Chi, etc.
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 15:05:24 GMT


Thank you Doug Cohen for lambasting the fool who thinks that *all* of
T'ai Chi instruction is bogus.

As I will say to anyone who shares this opinion: please visit my teacher,
Lu Ping Zhang (he goes by "Lu Ping").  He lives on campus in Amherst Mass.

	        127 Colonial Village, Amherst, MA 01002

He will be glad to "throw you away" if you ask.  He'll also knock you around a
bit if you'd like him to.  He grew up in Shanghai, and I guarantee that not
all of T'ai Chi Ch'uan instruction is dead, dying or in need of resuscitation.

I will agree that there are an inordinate number of T'ai Chi instructors who
know absolutely nothing about real fighting.  Lu Ping is not among them
however.
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Bush Black belt??!!!
Date: 26 Aug 92 19:35:58 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <SCHAN.92Aug26080210@atria.srg> schan@atria.srg (Stephen Chan) writes:
>
>	After all folks, George "I'm Not A Wimp" Bush just COULD BE a black
>belt in something. If that Hunka Hunka Burning Blob, Elvis Presley could earn
>a black belt in Kempo, then George could earn a black belt in something too.

A week or two ago I saw a news spot in which Bush was given an
*honorary* black belt by Chuck Norris, who was hosting some
campaign-related photo-op for the President. Perhaps this is
the black belt that orignially started this thread?