HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: person@plains.NoDak.edu (Brett G Person )
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: Disconnect Phantom
Keywords: Knock it off!!
Date: 10 Sep 92 03:37:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.20252
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network


>>>                                                           tsand@vipunen.hut.fi
>>>TEX disconnects, dial again for another session.
>>>D;+vC)?iH%"
>>>NO CARRIER
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Keep this crap out of your posts!!
+++ ATH ATDT 1 900 ....
There!  This used to bite ( byte?) one of our local sysops a lot.
Seems you used to be able to grab control of HIS modem by doing stuff
like this.   Any software that is STUPID ENOUGH to read the TEXT that
the modem sends back deserves to be fed text like this. 

-- 
Brett Person
Guest Account	
North Dakota State University
person@plains.nodak.edu || person@plains.bitnet
"Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to loose"
From: smith@sctc.com (Rick Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Who invented the digital computer
Date: 8 Sep 92 13:53:36 GMT
Organization: SCTC

sunthej@alleg.edu (Jake Blues) writes:

>	Hello all.  I remember reading that there was some dispute as to  
>who invented the digital computer, and that a court case was ongoing that  
>could have wide-reaching consequences to the industry.  Does anyone have  
>any more info on that?  Has the court case been resolved?  Who won?

You're referring to the ENIAC patent case where the court ruled that
J.V. Atanasoff (sp?) of Iowa State had developed some of the ideas
appearing in the ENIAC, which was patented by Eckert and Mauchly, and
licensed to Sperry Univac.  Note that nobody (except a misinformed
revisionist) claims that Atanasoff built a machine of comparable
significance. The judge simply ruled that some of Atanasoff's circuit
ideas were claimed in the patent without proper attribution. This is
similar to the way the entire dBase III copyright was invalidated a
couple years back.

In any case, I think it's nonsense to argue about "who invented the
digital computer" as if a single Intellectual Giant was solely
responsible.  Many, many people were working on the same concept
simultaneously and often independently. Depending on how you qualify
the question (first programmable computer, first electronic digital
arithmetic machine, first programmable electronic digital computer,
first programmable electronic machine used to solve a "useful"
problem, first design of a digital arithmetic machine, first design of
a _programmable_ digital computer, etc) you get different answers. If
you qualify the question geographically, you get even more different
answers.

Rick.
smith@sctc.com      arden hills, minnesota
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: Is there a PDP-11 (or 8, or...) Emulator?
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:14:56 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.081109.3965@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
> The C-based model of the simulator when compiled for 286-only runs faster
> on 286, 386, 486 than does the same files compiled for 386 on either 386 or
> 486.

Then you have a better 80286 code generator than an 80386 based one (which
wouldn't surprise me on the IBM-PC, where the dominant model is still 8086),
or the program is highly irregular (it wouldn't happen to be <64K data
space, would it?). Using the same compilers (Intel C286 and C386 on Intel
Xenix-286 and Intel UNIX-386) large programs (>64K data) typically come out
considerably faster on the 386 in 386 mode than 286 mode. This is a measured
result, not a "sweeping (and uninformed) generalization".

I would suggest you try the Watcom compiler.

> BTW, both versions are small enough to fit into the cache memory
> of all machines (the 286 doesn't have/need a cache because it has zero-wait
> state memory).

Ah. Small model. I thought so.
-- 
Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
 `-_-'   "Have you hugged your wolf today?"
  'U`  
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Reply-To: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 10:25:39 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.113502.8695@vax.oxford.ac.uk> marques@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
> 
>If this is the case then how come Kermit 2.32/A won't run on fast 486s?
>(Could it be the wonderful self configuring timing loops that could not
>be written in a HLL that you described in a previous post :-)).

No, it's a very old and obsolete version with lotsa problems caused by the
BIOS of those machines.  Use 3.xx versions and you shouldn't have problems.
Moreover, those /A versions were *provisional* releases that didn't all work
on all hardware for all sorts of reasons.  (It mattered which release date
you got :-(.)

cjl
From: hunt@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Hunt)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Coke machine at CMU
Date: 7 Sep 92 22:56:23 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <PRATTA.92Sep6181514@marcus.rpi.edu> pratta@rpi.edu (Anthony Edward Prattico) writes:
>In article <1992Sep6.211448.18967@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> hunt@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Hunt) writes:
>   In article <87501@netnews.upenn.edu> jarnot@kin.lap.upenn.edu (Kevin J. Jarnot) writes:
>>   (Upgrading to X-Windows workstations on ethernet in every dorm room at CSH
>>   - I believe we will be the first student organization in the country/world
>>   to do so)
>
>Well, in part. RPI already has ethernet in some of the dorms. However, to get
>full X-Window support, you need something like an RS/6000 or a SPARC. At
>present, only faculty have this kind of support. 
>
>However, SPARCs are available to students, though I don't know if anybody has
>actually bought one. I personally have no need for windowing except for games,
>and use emacs for all other work, mail, Usenet news, etc. Usually, access
>using MS-Kermit on a PS/2 30-286 over a 19200 baud digital data line is faster
>than the network servers. I do miss mouse support however.

Right, but the key difference between RPI and CSH is that we don't have to
purchase the workstation, they were donated to us, along with all of
the network hardware.  we need to set em up.

Tad
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: chil@fraser.sfu.ca (Keith Lim)
Subject: Re: The third variable.
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 08:25:40 GMT

mjg51721@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael James Gebis) writes:

>Alright....the first variable is foo, and the second variable is bar.  What
>is the third? 

The third variable is "baz", and I read in some book that the fourth is
"quux." However, I do remember that one of the co-authors of said book had
the last name Quux, so....

-- 
Keith_Lim@sfu.ca   Simon Fraser University, Burnaby B.C., V5A 1S6, Canada
Hon Cog Sci; Min Psyc; Forum; Senate; CDSU; ASC; FARSIDE; LEAD
...none of the above bodies, hold, or agree with the views stated above.

"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand."
                                           --Homer Simpson, "The Simpsons"

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
From: ketil@edb.tih.no (Ketil Albertsen,TIH)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Organization: T I H / T I S I P 
Posting-Front-End: Winix Conference v 92.05.15  1.20 (running under MS-Windows)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 09:24:59 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.021644.17530@news.columbia.edu>, lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:

>If you have nothing useful to say, say nothing.

I am still searching for grains of high information density in the entry
from which this is quoted. No success yet.

I suspect that cjl may be the only one that still believes this discussion
is dead serious. Most or all others, I would think, carries on just to see 
how far we can push it/him. There seems to be no limit along the path we
have followed until now; we must find a new track if it shall ever end.

So, if hll are bad, CISCs are bad (from early in the discussions), lots
of assemblers "stinks rotten eggs" - except possibly for the PDP-8 ones 
- then the next logical step must be Turing machines.

Do I see a possible end to the discussions?

Ketil Albertsen.

(If the response to my attempt on sarcasm had come from anyone else, I would
have answered by letter, but as the subject of the discussion really is
the attitudes of cjl, I considered a post appropriate.)
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:13628 comp.unix.misc:3517
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
From: scott@yarc.uucp (Scott Beckstead)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1992 23:44:25 GMT
Reply-To: scott@yarc.UUCP (Scott Beckstead)
Organization: Yarc Systems

In article <1992Sep4.042704.21287@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>In article <1992Sep01.163246.19563@yarc.uucp> scott@yarc.UUCP (Scott Beckstead) writes:
>>  Look CJL we're talking about porting to DIFFERENT processors not 20 
>>year old 8080 emulators that ALL run the same code!  Try taking Dr. Dos to 
>>a 68000 or maybe a MIPS or a 29000.  Get real dude! Keep your apples and 
>>oranges straight!
>
>You apparently belong to a different "we" group.  The response was directly
>towards a remark claiming that there were serious programming development
>problems or vast differences between several of all of those models.  I
>refuted that, and gave a little detail as to why.

  Jumbled thread?? I really don't know what I was talking about here.

>You show your ignorance if you believe that any of those machines are 8080
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>emulators.  Further, none of them are 20 years old.  However there is an
^^^^^^^^^^^
  I won't follow this.  I fought in the great architecture wars
back in the early eighties and I still carry some wounds from that.

>8088 and up program to emulate not only the 20 year old 8080, but the CP/M
>environment it requires to run specific programs on.  In any case, why would
>anyone make any claims of running anything from a PC on totally different
>architectures; you get real!

  My mistake....

I've also fought this battle once before with a colleague of mine.  I
won but we didn't speak for more than 3 years.  He chided me for
learning pascal and bothering to learn forth and the cp/m operating
system.  Bingo I'm unemployed and so is he and the only job we both
interviewed for was programming forth under cp/m guess who got the job. 
The only language he knew was assembly and a smattering of basic.  However
I also knew assembly so umm what exactly were we arguing about again....
  

-- 
Reply to: scott@yarc.uucp 	|  
				|	Spin my nipple nuts and send me to   
  Smoke me a kipper, I'll be	| 	Alaska.
   back for breakfast	 	|
From: terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr.)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Is there a PDP-11 (or 8, or...) Emulator?
Date: 6 Sep 92 05:59:22 GMT
Organization: St. Peter's College, US

In article <1992Sep2.043415.12160@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, bmb1021@ultb.isc.rit.edu (B.M. Buck ) writes:
> Is there a PDP-11 (or PDP-8, 10, 1, 6, etc) emulator available
> (perferrably for MS-DOS or similar varients)?  While recently reading a
> book on PDP-11 Assembly language, I wondered if it would be possible to
> try writing some code for the beasties.  Not having a PDP-11, or even
> knowing where to get one, I thought of emulation...
> 
> Also suitable would be pointers on how to acquire one cheaply.

  Well, many years ago there was a cross-assembler/linker on one of the CP/M
User's Group disks. I don't think it actually performed any emulation, though.

  You should be able to pick up a real PDP-11 (perhaps an 11/23, 1Mb memory,
2 floppies and a 30Mb hard disk) for under about $500. Of course, you'll need
to acquire an operating system license, software, and documentation.

  You can get larger systems for free, but the power requirements are a bit
extreme (I know of a place that regularly dumps PDP-11/70's).

	Terry Kennedy		Operations Manager, Academic Computing
	terry@spcvxa.bitnet	St. Peter's College, Jersey City, NJ USA
	terry@spcvxa.spc.edu	+1 201 915 9381
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
From: alanb@sdl.mdcbbs.com (Alan Braggins)
Date: 09 Sep 92 11:49:03 GMT
Organization: Shape Data (Division of EDS), Cambridge UK
In-reply-to: parry@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au's message of Sun, 6 Sep 1992 13:30:51 GMT

>>>>> On Sun, 6 Sep 1992 13:30:51 GMT, parry@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Tom J Parry) said:

> The mice on the SG Irises here don't have moving parts at all. They use
> little red LEDs and a reflective metal mouse pad with little squares on
> it! What's more some of the pads have different dot pitches so the mouse
> movement speeds are different.

Suns are the same.
I've used a Xerox optical mouse that worked whichever way around the mouse
pad was, and would also work of a photocopy of the original pad, so you could
choose your own dot pitch.
--
Alan Braggins, Shape Data (A Division of EDS Ltd), Cambridge, UK +44-223-316673
   "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
 "My employer does not necessarily share my views - but I'm working on it."
From: jch+@cs.cmu.edu (Jonathan Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler
Date: 8 Sep 92 13:00:54 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes
> The argument was how much code generated and specifically what code was
> generated.  The assembler version was literally 5 lines of executable
> instructions of a basic nature.  The expansion of the hll wants to be
> compared to that.

As Matthews' has already explained, the expansion of his hll macro in
three different contexts results in 0 instructions, 4 instructions,
and 3 instructions.  I fail to understand why you're still bringing
people's attention to the fact that your assembler code is actually
*worse* than this... 

Jonathan H.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.ms-windows.apps,comp.os.ms-windows.misc
From: chil@fraser.sfu.ca (Keith Lim)
Subject: Re: PROGRAM BLOAT - was Re: Ye Olde Secrete Screene Cheete Sheete .....
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 06:32:15 GMT

huot@cray.com (Tom Huot) writes:

>This is just my $.02. It certainly is no wonder that this commercial
>software is so bloated and expensive, when totally worthless crap
>such as faces, fireworks, undocumented cheats are actually placed
>in these programs. Just think of it this way. Someone is actually
>getting PAID to do this!
>AREN'T THE DAMN PROGRAMS GETTING BIG ENOUGH ALREADY???

Even Easter Eggs and backdoors and "undocumented features" aren't enough
to bloat programs from one disk to, say, twelve.

-- 
Keith_Lim@sfu.ca   Simon Fraser University, Burnaby B.C., V5A 1S6, Canada
>Opinions above are probably my own only...too weird to be anyone else's.<

"I can't be sure where I'm headed after death/To heaven, hell, or beyond to
 that Great Vast/But if I can I would like to meet my Maker/There's one or
 two things I'd sure like to ask"      --Crash Test Dummies, "At My Funeral"
From: wb8foz@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (David Lesher)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Better dead than IBM
Date: 12 Sep 1992 21:57:08 GMT
Organization: NRK Clinic for habitual NetNews abusers - Beltway Annex
Reply-To: wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (David Lesher)
NNTP-Posting-Host: skybridge.scl.cwru.edu

	Insolence Breeds Mediocrity



--
A host is a host from coast to coast..wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au (Christopher Phillips)
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Secrete Screene Cheete Sheete (long; 1300+ lines)
Organization: Elec Eng, Univ of Western Australia
Date:  8 Sep 92 12:07:55 GMT

ivie@cc.usu.edu (CP/M lives!) writes:

>In article <1992Sep6.160750.10034@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, aduell@nyx.cs.du.edu (Tony Duell) writes:
>> 
>>    The well-known 100*160 in 16 colors mode I don't know how to get this -
>> can someone please enlighten me

>I figured it out once, but it's been a while. Basically, you set the thing up
>for text mode with only two scan lines per character. Then you use the 
>half-filled characters for your pixels. Each character position represents
>two pixels. The foreground and background color fields of the character gives
>the colors of the pixels.

This sounds disturbingly familiar; you can do similar evil things
to a commodore 64 to get an 74x200 in 16colours mode.
You enable bitmap mode (which uses the character screen to
store foreground/background nybble pairs) and increment the 
yscroll register on every line to force a new character DMA
on each raster line.  Cycle through 8 character screens, and
fill your bitmap with $0f, and your set ;)

By adjusting the cycle at which you do the DMA, you can force
the video chips character row counter to reset or not, and
this can be used to provide a copper-list type screen stretching
effect.

--
Christopher Jam	__________________________________________________
phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au			c64 forever!!!!
300,000 c64's were sold in the fiscal year ending June 1991 :)
------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: jonwa@ida.liu.se (Jonas Wallgren)
Subject: More variables (was: Re: The third variable.)
Organization: CIS Dept, Univ of Linkoping, Sweden
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 23:42:43 GMT

In article <BuHGFv.2n5@pix.com> hsu@pix.com (Dagwood Splits the Atom) writes:
>In article <aldavi01.716324160@starbase.spd.louisville.edu> aldavi01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu (Arlie Davis) writes:
>>In <rw.716255281@donner> rw@donner.Rational.COM (Bob Weissman) writes:
>>[... foo ... bar ...]
>>> I've always heard "foo, bar, bletch, and mumble".
>>Wrong.  The spectrum goes foo, bar, bang, eek 
>Hmmm, I'd always heard "foo, bar, baz, bang...".

Why stay in one dimension - i.e. in a linear sequence of names? It's more
complicated than that:

        FOO---FIE---FUM           QUX...QUUX...QUUUX...
          \          |
          BAR       GUM
          /          |            BLETCH
        BAZ         HUM

---: One standard triple
 | : Another standard triple
 \ : The standard couple
 / : A standard bar follower
...: A countable supply
     Bletch is a singleton

So, if you only need two variables you use Foo and Bar. If you need three you
use Foo, Fie, Fum, or (if Foo is used) Fum, Gum, Hum.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jonas Wallgren                                 |                 jwc@ida.liu.se
Department of Computer and Information Science |
Linkoping University                           |-------------------------------
S-581 83  Linkoping                            |Everything that is systematized
Sweden                                         |becomes aesthetic --- B. Becher
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: aeg03@rrz.uni-koeln.de (Jan T. Kim)
Subject: Re: Coke machine at CMU
Reply-To: kim@vax.mpiz-koeln.mpg.dbp.de
Organization: Regional Computing Center, University of Cologne, F. R. Germany
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 92 18:27:04 GMT


Well, I once heard a story about another coke machine wired up to
a computer, in a company of some kind I think, but can't remember
exactly unfortunately...
Anyway, the story was that employees could  type  "coke"  at  the
usual  prompt  and  a  tin  of  coke  would  be released from the
machine. They would just go to the machine and pick  it  up,  and
the money was taken from their account.

Greetinx, Jan

 +- Jan Kim -- X.400:    S=kim;OU=vax;O=mpiz-koeln;P=mpg;A=dbp;C=de -+
 |             Internet: kim@vax.mpiz-koeln.mpg.dbp.de               |
 |                                                                   |
 *----=<  hierarchical systems are for files, not for humans  >=-----*
From: bevan@cs.man.ac.uk (Stephen J Bevan)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: GOTOs
Date: 13 Sep 92 14:41:24 GMT
	<16854B809.IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU> <15232@umd5.umd.edu>
	<1992Sep3.055140.929@news.columbia.edu> <1992Sep03.104918.10823@bnr.uk>
	<BEVAN.92Sep10160706@tiger.cs.man.ac.uk>
	<1992Sep12.132721.26091@gu.uwa.edu.a
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester
In-reply-to: john@gu.uwa.edu.au's message of 12 Sep 92 13:27:21 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.132721.26091@gu.uwa.edu.au> john@gu.uwa.edu.au (John West) writes:
  >repeat
  >  done= init_rs232 && init_modem && dial_number && log_on && do_the_business
  >until done

  >Change the language and formatting to taste.

  Just don't change the language to Pascal. Pascal can (and often will) change
  the order of execution within an expression. Yes, I hate it too.

Sure you can change it to Pascal, you've just got to make sure you
respect the evaluation order implied by use of && in the above.  As
Pascal doesn't have a shorthand for &&, you just have to write it out
longhand :-

repeat
  if      init_rs232 
  then if init_modem
  then if dial_number
  then if log_on
  then if do_the_business
  then done := true
until done

bevan
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,rec.humor
From: u734120@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (John Lamp)
Subject: Re: Thoughts - Aussies have it better both ways!
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 04:27:32 GMT

9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au (Wild Child) writes:

>In article <1992Sep13.051133.5035@cs.uow.edu.au>, david@cs.uow.edu.au (David E A Wilson) writes:
>> u734120@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (John Lamp) writes:
>>>>peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>>>>> Hibberts Law #14:
>>>>> 	When two technologies are competing for the marketplace,
>>>>> 	the inferior one always succeeds.
>>>And VHS winning over Beta ;->
>> 
>> Here is Australia we can now get E-300 (5 hour) tapes that will run for
>> 10 hours at LP speed. What can US VHS & Beta machines reach?

>We Australians also get 625 line PAL instead of the crappy 500 odd lines dummy
>Americans get with NTSC.

NTSC = Never Twice the Same Colour
PAL  = Perfect At Last


--
   _--_|\             John Lamp, originating in Hobart, Tasmania
  /      \                 Phone: 002 23 1366 - Fax: 002 34 5685
  \_.--._/                   email: u734120@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au
        v <-----------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: Is there a PDP-11 (or 8, or...) Emulator?
Organization: Taronga Park BBS
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 13:15:12 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.051450.22555@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>I know of several PDP-8 emulators for PC's and MACs in various stages of
>functionality.  At least one is intended to be a "real" emulator meaning that
>the code will be written in assembler to maximize emulation speed, and
>more importantly will be a "complete" emulation, not merely a CPU-only thing,
>so that the actual system software will run on it.

Let's see. Assembler for speed, eh?

If it's for the Mac, that means it will never run on but a small fraction of
the machines out there.

If it's for the PC, that means it'll run in a PC emulation box on most
machines within a few years, so the "non-real" versions in high level
languages will be faster.

Putting the instruction set decoder in assembly makes some sense, if you don't
know how to write fast code in C. It's hard to do an interpreter in C that's
at all fast (not impossible, by any means, just hard). But the rest of the
code is unlikley to get a significant speedup.
-- 
                                                                `-_-'
                         Have you hugged your wolf today?        'U`

Peter da Silva, Taronga Park BBS, Houston, TX  +1 713 568 0480/1032
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers