HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fb78@sol.acs.unt.edu (Ganesh Gopalakrishnan)
Subject: Re: No future for brahmnis in TN (was Caste based magazines)
Organization: University of North Texas
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 04:41:16 GMT

thiyagarajan@mims.enet.dec.com (R. Thiyagarajan) writes:
>Yes, I fully agree with you from the experiences I have seen with my
>friends/relatives/myself. The suggestion I give is to study hard in any field
>they can get in to (we know that medicine and engg are not for talented people
>in TN) even it is B.A economics, and get out of TN to another country or to
>another state. 

YESTERDAY I WAS TALKING TO ONE OF MY STUDENTS FROM SINGAPORE WHO
WAS TELLING ME HE CANNOT WAIT TO GRADUATE AND GET BACK HOME. I
ASKED HIM WHY? HE SAID THE MOST IMPORTANT REASON IS, "YOU ARE
A FIRST CLASS CITIZEN ONLY IN YOUR COUNTRY, SIR, NOWHERE ELSE
IN THE WORLD". I DID NOT KNOW WHAT TO SAY TO THAT REMARK!
- GANESH

>Now you can start flaming.............
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: rags@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Raghavan Jayaraman)
Subject: Re: Nos Tacemus -- [temples & mosques] -- Icarus.
Followup-To: an article in ACT by Paul
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 17:40:11 GMT



IMO 'that the minorities would feel insecure  due to this incident' is a
reaction to the extreme. Nevertheless I can understand if they feel so
notwithstanding their Indianness. 'Minority' is a loose term not
necessarily affiliated to a religious group. A tamil may be a minority in
Bombay or Karnataka and may feel insecure when hit upon by political party
sponsored orgy [or christians can fight over in Bangalore as to what
language the sunday prayer has to be offered - so tamil christians can feel
like minority among kannadiga christians]. Similar such occasions of
'minority fear'  do arise  and have arisen in the past and never was discussed
seriously to be injurious to national fabric of unity[just not secularism]
though they have the potential. 

Then why such emphasis to this incident ? I can think of three reasons:-

[1] the  force used in this case -IMO this is common in other incidents too
and cannot be the major factor [violence had occured before independence on
this cause]

[2] this incident being espoused  by a party of national character in contrast
to other incidents.

IMO this has some significance but not much. Though BJB had a potential to
become a full-fledged national party, now it has grim chances [IMHO], to
which anti-BJP [or Secularists] can have a sigh  of relief.

[3] The feeling that this incident symbolises the aspirations of 600
million Hindu majority throught India.

I feel strongly that this could play a major role in causing "insecurity
fear" among religious minorities though it isn't difficult to see thro' that  
this could n't be the truth. So only way to dispel this fear is for the silent-
majority to come out and express their aversion to this incident  and let
these religious leaders know that their support is only  among handful but
not 600 million.

IMO an ordinary hindu doesn't look at his minority neighbour any different
from another Indian.
---------------

Now regarding state being impartial:-

Yes! It is despicable that state shows partiality. It isn't the first time
that a govt. ignores the law. Precedents have been already set. [eg.
Bangarappa and Jeyalalitha]. So it is upto an individual to decide whether
it is prudent to anticipate successive govt. to be partial and to attribute
this to slient majority.
-----------------

Finally, neglecting the emotional pains this has caused, I see this
incident as the culmination of 'criminalisation of indian polity. It is
upto "we the people" to clean up this mess. 

How are we going to  go about? -let us take some time and think!!!!!!!!

raghavan
From: aruna@tree.egr.uh.edu (Affable)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Tamil proverbs - How did they originate?
Date: 19 Dec 1992 00:30:08 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
Reply-To: Venkatachalam Aruna <aruna@tree.egr.uh.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cive.egr.uh.edu

 Some years ago , in the magazine "kungumam", the readers were
encouraged to come up with a suggestion how the tamil proverbs
would have come into existence in due course.As a whole, that series 
was interesting.
  I could remember only two suggestions by somebody, that too only for
"thai piranthaal vazhi pirakkum".
  [1]  The paths (varappu) have been covered with the unharvested 
plants that grow from the adjacent lands. Before pongal, as they are
harvested, that gives way for the villagers in the month "thai". 
 [2] In the month "maarkazhi", as the "kOlam"s from two opposite houses
 occupy the entire width of street, the road is blocked. In the month
 "thai", "kOlam"s are small and that gives the way.

First one seems more plausible to me.
  
 Hope someone comes with more suggestions for this proverb and other
proverbs as well. [Hint: If you had been an avid reader of "kungumam",
you would come up with a lot of suggestions.]
 Anybody out there who can give some suggestion how this proverb,
"kazhudaikku theriyumaa kaRpoora vasanai" would have come into 
existence?

Cheers,
Venkat
--
venkat@jetson.uh.edu                | If you love something,set it free.
venkat@menudo.uh.edu                | If it comes back, it is yours.
venkat@uhupvm1.uh.edu               | If it does not, it never was.
aruna@tree.egr.uh.edu(NeXT mails OK)| 
(713)225-6426(h) & (713)743-4250(w) |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kanth@ogicse.cse.ogi.edu (Meenakshi Srikanth)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: minnal varigaL - 45
Date: 20 Dec 92 00:37:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47552
Distribution: world
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR


	 "pon vandonRu malarendRu muhathOdu mOdha, - naan
	  vaLai konda kaiyaale medhuvaaga mooda ! - en
	  karung koondhal kalaindhOdi mEhangalaaga, - naan
	  payandhOdi vandhEn, unnidam uNmai koora !!"

	  From "naan malarOdu thaniyaaga..."

	  Contributed by Raj.
	
	  Posted by Srikanth Meenakshisundaram.
--------------------------------------------------------
Contributions Welcome. Please send YOUR minnal varigaL to
kanth@cse.ogi.edu. Anecdotes or personal experiences that
directly relate to the minnal varigaL are also welcome.
----------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: babu@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Natarajan Sureshbabu)
Subject: Re: IlakkaNam
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 20:22:49 GMT

In article <kat.724111719@ro> kat@doe.carleton.ca (Kathiravan Krishnamurthi) writes:
>In <Bz3ttG.1Gn5@austin.ibm.com> ali@fvtcmd07.austin.ibm.com (Saleem Mohammad Ali) writes:
>
>>Thanks for the clarification Mr.Gopalaswamy.
>
>>From what you have said, I conclude that a "meyyezhuthu" has to
>>be used under the following conditions:
>


I know one place where the vallezhutu doubles for sure.

If the first word ends in the 2nd or the 4th case 
(adhAvadhu, mudhal vArthai irandAm allathu nAnkAm
Vetrumai urubil mudinthAl, pinnar varum vallezhutu
migum, i.e doubles)

e.g 

avanai + kandEn = avanaikkandEn (Note ai at the end of first word)

rAmanukku + thanthEn = rAmanukkuththanthEn ( ku - Naalam vEtrumai Urubu)

Bye,
Babu

Xref: sparky soc.culture.tamil:4520 soc.culture.indian:41472
From: sundar+@cs.cmu.edu (Sundar Vallinayagam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: parallel proverbs!
Date: 20 Dec 92 16:30:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.BzKGIH.7qK.1
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


Talking about parallel proverbs, in English there is a saying,
"As deaf as an adder."  Contrast this with the Tamil proverb,
"pAmbuch chevi"--the hearing capacity of a snake--to describe a person with
exceptionally sensitive ears.  I think the English merely looked
at the snake and finding no external organ similar to the ear
thought the snake was deaf.  While we, observing that the snake
can sense even the slightest rustle in the grass, associated
sensitive ears to the "hearing powers" of the snake.


-- 
**************************************************
ramli@orca.ele.uri.edu
**************************************************
From: sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: Thiruppaavai Verses
Date: 15 Dec 1992 00:46:44 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

 [ Posted for Maitrayi - SP ]
_____________________________________________________________________

> Hi, November 15th is the first day of the Thamizh month Maargazhi.
> Dr. K. Srinivasan (srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca) has translated the
> "Thiruppaavai" of Saint AandaaL into English, and has also prepared
> a transliterated version of each verse in his ADAMI transliteration
> scheme. I'll be posting the translation and transliteration of
> each verse, one per day during the month of Maargazhi, on
> Dr. Srinivasan's behalf.

   Am I missing something? You say that Maargazhi has begun on the
15th of last month. Assuming that Maargazhi  month has 30 days, then 
it should be over already, in which case I see that this series of
Thiruppaavai postings is a late effort, late by one month..
---------------------- 
  Some Maargazhi jokes from a S.V.Sekhar drama ( Crazy thieves in
Paalavaakkam )
  [ S.V.Sekhar is the character Uppili, Maithili is his sister,
   Ramunujam is his father ..]

 Ramunujam : Endaa Uppili, Maargazhi maasamum adhuvumaa, kuLikkaama 
             ippadi? .. thiruppaavai theriyumaadaa unakku?

 Uppili : theriyaama enna,                 
           `maargazhith thingaL
            madi niRaiyap pongal'

 Ramunujam : pongaL illadaa asaththu!

 Uppili : illappaa , oru maamaa ippadith thaan paadeendu kanchaa
          adichchuNdu vandhaar..

 Rammunujam : kanchiraa adichchuNdu vandhaarnu sollu..
------------------------

> Regards,
> Aravind.
> srin@cs.cornell.edu

 - Maitrayi
________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: kat@doe.carleton.ca (Kathiravan Krishnamurthi)
Subject: Re: Yuga purushan !!
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 22:12:37 GMT

In <2B2A511B.7879@news.service.uci.edu> sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu (M. Sundaramoorthy) writes:

>In article <1992Dec12.001057.10462@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> ssankara@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Sornam Sankara) writes:
>>>"paattukkoru pulavan Baarathiyadaa
>>> avan paattaip paNNOdoruvan paadinaanadaa
>>> kEttuk kirukiruththup pOnEnadaa
>>> antha ________ ennavendru solvenadaa"  (correct this line!)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>  "anthak kirukkil uLaRumozhi poRuppayada"
>>
>>
>>S. Sankarapandi

>	This poem is by Naamakkal Ve. Ramamlingam Pillai, who was popularly
>	known as 'Naamakkal Kavignar'. He continued the spirit of
>	Independence movement with his songs, after Bharathi met with
>	unfortunate death. He was the first 'Arasavaik Kavignar', 
>	appointed by K.Kamaraj, the then Chief Minister of TN. 

>	M. Sundaramoorthy
>	sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu 
      

    I have heard about this poet. Is there any reason why he is not
as popular as other poets like SB, Bharathidaasan.

Kathiravan
From: thiyagarajan@mims.enet.dec.com (R. Thiyagarajan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Thuklak Kelvi Badhil
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:11:01 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


All Brahmin haters and who do not want to read any brahmin magazine press n


Que : One DMK MLA has said that the assembley without Karunanidhi is like
      dark sky without the moon. What do you say about this?

Ans : Ammavasai oru punya kalam.


If anyone is interested, I will try to post more.

RT
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: asriniva@vela.acs.oakland.edu (PAAGAL)
Subject: CUT THIS CRAP
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:33:50 GMT

hi netters

I have been reading some real CRAP on Brahminism, Periyarism for the
past 10 days, It has degenerated to such a level, That some people
on net may even go to the extent of requesting the government to set
up a a commission to find out who was born to Which WH***, Which W***
is better. {Sorry I Had to use such strong Words,I have been patient
enough reading this crap.}

Maintain Some Modicum of Decency on the Net.


Argue on issues in the right sense, Any Theory or philosophy directed
against a particular community is bound to receive inflammatory responses.

Periyar has said so many things about tamil literature, Talk about that,
Dont' discuss things against a particular community, 

Tomorrow some one will start on VANNIYARISM, and talk about social equality
Projecting Ramdas.
The next Some one will start on PILLAISM, MUDALIARISM, CHETTIARISM, THEVARISM
And as much u want as there is no dearth of castes in tamilnadu.

My Dear Friends who prompted me to write this, If u still go ahead and
continue the crap please go ahead , We would soon see the Soc.Culture.Tamil
group with the following SUBJECT LINES 

Some examples

Sub: Vadkalai Iyengar V Thenkalai Iyengar

Sub:  Kurumbu  Goundar vs Vellala Goundar

Sub: Kammuvar Naicker vs. {Saada} Naicker

Sub: Sengundha Mudaliar vs {wild card} Mudaliar

Sub: Vadama Iyer Vs Dosama Iyer

Sub: Commati Chetis Vs { Other chettis}

Sub: Thevar Vs Agamvudiar


Please continue this thread

Bye
 
-- 
_________________________________________________________________________
athi			
_________________________________________________________________________

Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: rst@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (R. Sritharan)
Subject: Re: "MAdhavi Pon mayilAl Thoegai "
Organization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:05:19 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.112901.62104@cc.usu.edu> sl9z5@cc.usu.edu writes:
>Hai
>	Somebody had asked for verses of "MAdhavi Pon maylAl Thoegai 
>viriththAl, vanna mai itta kann" from Iru malargal.
>
>	Incidentally, is 'nt that song based on the 
>	carnatic rAgam "KaraharaPriyA".
>
>Thanks,
>Murali S.
>Utah State University,
>Logan, UT-84322.
>

Yes, it is based on KaraharaPriyA.

-- rst
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian
From: janand@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Zombie Dude)
Subject: Re: Question on Periyar's ancestory
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 19:40:05 GMT

In article <kat.724632075@kehleyr> kat@doe.carleton.ca (Kathiravan Krishnamurthi) writes:
>In <1992Dec14.195145.11575@vela.acs.oakland.edu> janand@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Jayaraman Anand) writes:
>
>>>there is this statement that is quite commonly attributed to Periyar. He is 
>>>supposed to have said something like "if you see a snake and a brahmin on the
>>>road, kill the brahmin first". Of course he didn't use those words - he talked
>>>to that effect. 
>>>
>
>
>         How good a @@@@@ is the present ruler of TN whom some people
>support but oppose periyaar. Periyaar was born in a respectable family
>in Erode. Ask about your leaders parents.
>
>kathiravan

	Who says the present ruler of TN is my leader ? And who
	cares about her mother/father(s) ?

J Anand.

-- 
!!!!!!!!!%-----+++++=====/**##!!!!!!!!!!!!!/**##=====+++++-----%!!!!!!!!
When you don't know what to do, walk fast and look worried.
!!!!!!!!!%-----+++++=====/**##!!!!!!!!!!!!/**##=====+++++-----%!!!!!!!!!
From: aruna@tree.egr.uh.edu (Affable)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: "malar" paadalgal.
Date: 17 Dec 1992 23:59:48 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
Reply-To: Venkatachalam Aruna <aruna@tree.egr.uh.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cive.egr.uh.edu

malar and its variances:
[1] malare, malare theriyathO  [movie: thEn nilavu]
[2] malarnthum malaraatha [movie: paasa malar]
[3] malarkalaip pOl thangai [movie: paasa malar]
[4] malarE, kurinji malarE [movie: doctor siva]
[5] poove, pooch chooda vaa [movie: poove pooch chooda vaa]
[6] pookkalaithaan parikkaatheenga [movie: ???]
[7] poovil vandu koodum [movie: kaathal Oviyam]
[8] poove nee yaar cholli [movie: ???]
[9] poove, chempoove [movie:???]
[10] poovizhi vaasalil vanthu [movie: deepam]
Feel free to add more.

Cheers,
Venkat
--
venkat@jetson.uh.edu                | If you love something,set it free.
venkat@menudo.uh.edu                | If it comes back, it is yours.
venkat@uhupvm1.uh.edu               | If it does not, it never was.
aruna@tree.egr.uh.edu(NeXT mails OK)| 
(713)225-6426(h) & (713)743-4250(w) |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cm421@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Sundar Ramamoorthy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: king of spring
Date: 11 Dec 1992 23:07:06 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cm421@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Sundar Ramamoorthy)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, arbi@charles.polymer.uakron.edu (The Dude) says:

>i have been wanting to post this song for a while now, but then two references
>to it on the same day, and boy, it's here:
>
>	neengal kEttavai
>	ilayaraaja
>	spb, jaanaki
>	vairamuthu
>
>O vasandha raaja thEn sumandha rOjaa
>en dhEgam, un dhEsam ennALum sandhOsham
>en dhaagangal theerndhida nee piRandhayO?
>
>men panju mEgangal; un pinjup paadhangal
>maN thottadhal inRu, sevvaanam pOlaachu
>
>peace an' luv,
>arbi
>-- 
>
 I remember having read in silappathikaaram similar lines when
iLango describes the beauty of kannagi. Just before marriage she is
coming to the stage and iLango says her feet were as soft as cotton
and they became red as they touched the ground. Does anybody out there
remember and post for the benefit one and all?
Sundar.R
-- 
Sundar.R

Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian
From: chitoor@mercury.cis.udel.edu (Srikrishnan R. Chitoor)
Subject: Re: Kuram Narayana on Periyar
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:14:06 GMT

In article <kat.724630901@kehleyr> kat@doe.carleton.ca (Kathiravan Krishnamurthi) writes:
>Then you say I am a male chauvinist. You are a jeyaa flauntist perhaps!
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I am not sure about this, but I never claimed that you were one :-).
Anyway, I just wanted to add that I will not be reading news for 
about a week, so you are free to post all false messages and accusations
against me.

>*******************************88*****************************
>Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I belong to UDelaware.

-Krishna.
Opinions are mine.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: ssankara@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Sornam Sankara)
Subject: Re: Forgot part of a poem
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:11:10 GMT



In article <47314@ogicse.ogi.edu> partha@mse.ogi.edu (R. Parthasarathy) writes:
>Can anyone complete this verse about marutham?
>
>    poNGgaril nuzhainthu vaavi
>
>    pugunthu paNGgayam thuzhaavi
>
>    paiNGgadi mullai ......
>
>    marutham veetrirukkum maathO
>
>I don't remember the name of the poet.
>
>Partha sarathy


     I vaguely remember the poem but I may be wrong.


     "paiNGadi mayilai mullai"

     The author is H.A.Krishna Pillai in Ratchanyayathrikam.


S. Sankarapandi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: meena@top.cis.syr.edu (Meena Arunachalam)
Subject: Re: Bramin-Controlled media? in TN? Come on Get REAL!!!!!
Organization: Syracuse University, CIS Dept.
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 13:53:10 EST

In article <SUNDARAM.92Dec15124923@me.uta.edu> sundaram@me.uta.edu (Ravi 'Kity Bum' Sundaram) writes:
>>   In article <1992Dec14.231202.8072@umbc3.umbc.edu> murali@venus.cs.umbc.edu
>>    (MURALI PANDIAN) writes:
>>   >In article <Bz9A3z.Az9@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> mvishnu@bcr3.uwaterloo.ca
>>   > (Meenan Vishnu) writes:
>>   >>
>>   >>>I think the middle class Tamils, who are fed with Bramin-controlled media
>>   >>>output has a very wrong impression of Periyar and his ideology.     ^^^^^
		[other stuff deleted]
>>   >-sm
>>In article <BzBA4u.1JM@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca (Srinivasan K.) writes:
>
>
		[other stuff deleted]
>>
>>   The fact remains that there are many specializing in 'seththa paambai
>>   kolvadhu' (Beating a dead horse).
>>
>>   K. Srinivasan at Hydro Quebec.
>
>
>	In this thread "tamil films" is mentioned in passing and no one
>	seems to be questioning that.
>
>	The GRIP of films in TN is so great and unrelenting ...
>
>	All the CMs aNNa thurai, karunaanidi, MGR, jaanaki 
>	and now jayalalithaa are from movies..
>	
>	And without a strong "pada ulaku" connection it is NOT possible
>	to run a "katchi"...
>
>
>	And they complain about Brahmin Domination of the media...
>
>	K Srinivasan hit the nail on the head with "sethha paambai kollum
>	[verrarkaL]"
>	The operative word is DEAD. paambu may be open to question.
>	Brahmins are DEAD in TN. No use blaming them for the travils of
>	TN. 

>
The crux of the matter is that all of us should realise, 
***ANY***  ************-ism [fill up anything you like before
the ism] that UNJUSTLY oppresses/dominates any RACE, SEX, COMMUNITY or 
RELIGION will DIE in due course of time and if it does not change its 
ways in time, it will dig it's own grave. So, let us ALL learn our lessons
and not let history repeat itself. People who get oppressed/dominated by
are equally to blame as those who oppress/dominate them.
Kaput.

let us strive toward peace on earth and how about starting with SCT!!!
-meena
Xref: sparky soc.culture.tamil:4524 soc.culture.indian:41500
From: kat@doe.carleton.ca (Kathiravan Krishnamurthi)
Subject: Re: Solution to Ayodhya problem, by TN chief minister.
Keywords: Ayodhya, Tami nadu
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 20:20:44 GMT

In <1992Dec12.000800.10404@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> ssankara@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Sornam Sankara) writes:
>Radio,  some Mangalam or Pankajam calling his name as "Subramaniya IYER".


>     we are cheated at schools and we allow our children cheated by teaching

>     "saathi iraNdozhiya veRillai satrunkal"

>     "saathikaL illaiyadi pappa" etc.

>     What a hypocritic sociey !!! We should be ashamed.  We should teach the 
>truth as

>     "saathikaL uLLathadi pappa"


>     Atleast Bharathi will happy for speaking the truth.


>S. Sankarapandi

>Dec 11, 1992 - Bharathi's birth day

   Truth Hurts. I commend sankarapaaNdi for speaking from heart. He had mentioned
neo-brahmanism by caste people like mudaliyaar, piLLai and gounders in institutions
other than IIt M.

   I agree with some of them I know of.

   sathiyamE latchiyammai koLLadaa!


  Kathiravan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil