HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nancy@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Nancy Feagans)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 27 Aug 92 15:52:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: jpl-devv.1992Aug27.155231.17337
Distribution: usa
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)

In article <14315@auspex-gw.auspex.com> johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
>In article <1992Aug25.230120.5114@morrow.stanford.edu> AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>|Another reason to mimic Pacific Northwest types and carry an ice axe
>|at all times!  What's good enough for Trotsky should be good enough
>|for Rover. <evil grin>
>
>Let see.  So far this month we've had someone suggest pushing someone off a
>cliff for building cairns and now shooting or using an ice axe on someones
>dog.
>
>I think some people are taking the backcountry experience way too serious.
>
This thread brings to mind another consideration about taking dogs into
the backcountry.  What would you do if you were backpacking in a remote
area and your dog was seriously injured?  One person I know had this happen.
He was out alone, with his two hunting dogs.  The dogs suffered some
severely cut pads from going over shale.  The guy couldn't figure out
how to get them out, so he shot them.  True story.


-- 

Nancy J. Feagans     (818) 306-6423
Jet Propulsion Lab   nancy@jpl-devvax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov
"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious."
From: jjk@astro.umd.edu (Jim Klavetter)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Yes, in some.  Was Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:10:19 GMT
Organization: U. of Maryland @ College Park, Astronomy

I've decided to keep out of this since this is the 4th time dogs have
been discussed in the last 2.5 years, but...

In article <61Kg02RO1fvo01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> jjh00@OUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes) writes:
>
>It's _illegal_ to take [dogs] into National Parks.
>This doesn't dissuade you?
>
THIS IS FALSE.  Although MOST NP's don't allow dogs, some do; I'll
name two in my area so you can check bu there are others:  Shenendoah
and Great Falls.

>Then I'm sure you won't mind if I drop by your house while
>you're on vacation and steal your stereo.
>
Do you think this statement is helping the discussion?  Or are we to
assume that all dog-in-the-backcountry-haters are grossly exaggerating
the problem?
>
>This attitude of _some_ dog owners, that the rules simply
>don't apply to them or their beloved animals, gives all
>dog owners a bad name.
>
Same is true of non-dog owners.  But indeed, the problem is with
owners and nothing inherently wrong with dogs in the backcountry (see
previous 3 or 4 postings by me or email me for the whole tirade).

jjk@astro.umd.edu also for Athabasca and Reudi
Jim Klavetter
Astronomy
UMD
College Park, MD  20742
From: donehoo@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Doyle Donehoo)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Razors in wilderness
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:12:09 GMT
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

In article derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne) writes:
>In article ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes:
>>In article  trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>> > In article allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:
>> > >The following are prohibited in a National Forest Primitive Area::
>> > >(b) Possessing or using a motor or motorized equipment, except small
>> > >    battery powered hand held devices, such as cameras, shavers,
>> > Shaving in the wilderness should be illegal.

What a load of crapola (the end processed product of grainola). This comes
under the heading of "Busy-bodies making up rules for everyone else to follow."
I have fair skin, so I have to shave to get the sun block on, and anyway,
I hate beards as much as I hate Republican environmental policy. My little
battery powered razor makes less noise than Sveas and MSR stoves, a string
of mules, or campfire farting. If anyone is offended, I will go into
the woods and buzz till its done.

>>It is, at least using an electric razor -- shavers are an exception in 
>>NF Primitive Areas, not in designated wilderness.

They gotta catch me first. Unlikely. Harumph.

>It seems to me that a battery powered electric razor would have less 
>environmental impact in the wilderness than a disposable wet razor.

Exactly.

Nothing like a Real Issue (TM) to discuss. Brother.      ;-]

+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "Bully! Bully!" - T. Roosevelt with John Muir at Glacier Point       |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The mountains are calling me, and I must go."   John Muir           |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|"Man has got astray out of his orbit, or away from the ends for which |
| he was created." John Muir.                                          |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: IJIM@vm1.spcs.umn.edu (Jim Colten)
Subject: Re: Nalgene bottle lids (kiss them off!!)
Organization: CIS at U of MN
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 22:37:25 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.162438.16231@news.cs.brandeis.edu>
andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang) writes:
 
>
>More on using coke bottles:
>
>Some juice jars are made of the same material as the 2l coke bottles,
>but have wide (40mm) mouths.  Ocean Spray 1/2 gals are PETE, for
>example.
>
>-andy
>
 
Plastic peanut butter jars are great for solids
From: ee5391aa@triton.unm.edu (Duke McMullan n5gax)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Pronghorns != Antelope
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:01:05 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Aug25.191020.29718@uvm.edu> geraghty@emba-news.uvm.edu.UUCP
(Kevin M Geraghty) writes:
>From article <mwan=1b@lynx.unm.edu>, by ee5391aa@triton.unm.edu
>(Duke McMullan n5gax):

. . . my ponitifical maundering deleted . . . .

>Look, this really won't do at all.  What's the idea of posting a
>knowledgeable mini-essay on the subject?  The net is strictly for
>people to pontificate about stuff they don't know about and spread
>misinformation. 

>Kevin Geraghty

I'm sorry, Kevin.  I've been on the net far too long to have any excuse for
doing that sort of thing; it was pure irresponsibility on my part.  I'll try
to do better in the future.

						d

PS -- Hey, did you know that if you grab a skunk's tail and lift its hind legs
off the ground, it can't spray?

						d

-- 
	So effectively have environmentalists greened public opinion that
      it takes an unashamed reactionary to question the wisdom of becoming
      ever greener and cleaner.		-- The Economist, 08 Aug 92 p. 11
     Duke McMullan n5gax nss13429r phon505-255-4642 ee5391aa@triton.unm.edu
From: akin@sgi.com (Allen Akin)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Water treatment article from Am J Pub Health (1989)
Date: 2 Sep 92 01:19:41 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <la7rh0INNgur@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:
|                           ...The MSR is a piece of trash, according to
| reports from the field.

I replaced an ancient First Need with an MSR this season, and have no
complaints.  Could you elaborate?

Allen
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 28 Aug 92 22:43:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Aug27.134809.7590@walter.cray.com> hens@snipe.cray.com (Tom Stephens) writes:
|
|In article <1992Aug27.155231.17337@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov>, nancy@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Nancy Feagans) writes:
|
|> He was out alone, with his two hunting dogs.  The dogs suffered some
|> severely cut pads from going over shale.  The guy couldn't figure out
|> how to get them out, so he shot them.  True story.
|> 
|
|This guy was obviously ill prepared.  I *ALWAYS* (when out hunting and otherwise)
|carry a first aid kit for my dog(s).  Would you go out without one for yourself?
|I realize that in some severe circumstances that this could happen.  I doubt that this is one of them.  Maybe if the dog was gored by a bear.
 
My cousin used to own a couple of dogs that he used for boar hunting.  
Occasionally the dogs would encounter a large boar (>250 lbs.) and the
boar would gore one of the dogs.  My cousin brought a suture kit with him
and has sewn up up the dog out in the field.
-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Frequency of Bear Encounters on Hiking Trails
Keywords: bears encounters hiking
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 19:37:48 GMT

If you believe the stats of World Wildlife fund you won't have to worry about
bears in the USA in a few years. (I am not sure if I believe them.)  CBS radio
ran this report Friday.  The claim is the demand for bear-derived medicines
in Asia is so great that several thousand are killed in the US each year for
this purpose.  A fresh, large bear carcass will fetch $10,000.
From: schindler@csa3.lbl.gov
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: MSR Stoves - Whisperlite
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:49:47 GMT
Reply-To: schindler@csa3.lbl.gov
Distribution: usa
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

Somebody asked how to figure out how much fuel to bring.  I'd also be 
interested in how others decide.  For myself, I bring about a half cup of 
fuel per meal that I'll be using the stove. (Usually just breakfast and
dinner.)  So about a cup per day for my MSR Whisperlite.  This leaves plenty
of fuel for afternoon tea or soup and probably even enough for boiling water
in case my filter dies.  This is for a group of 3 or 4 of us usually, but
the number of people doesn't vary the amount of fuel needed by a whole lot.

Aaron Schindler
From: "thomas baker" <thomas.baker@execnet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: nalgene bottle lids (
Date: 31 Aug 92 23:46:55 EST
Reply-To: "thomas baker" <thomas.baker@execnet.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Executive Networks Information


>In article <Bt4uJ5.J4K#ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, grady@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Mike Grady) writes...
>>I have cracked several Nalgene bottle lids (tightening too much, I guess),
>>and would like to obtain some replacements (the bottles are in fine shape).
>
I was at Campmor in Paramus, NJ this past Sunday where I saw a sign 
about replacement Nalgene lids. For what it's worth;
             Campmor, Inc  1-800-526-4784

TJ Baker
---
  DeLuxe/386 1.12 #7132  
--
Executive Network Information System  (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host
From: sarah@cs.arizona.edu (Sarah M. Officer)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: RE: water filters
Date: 3 Sep 92 01:53:54 GMT

A couple years ago I was hiking in the Sierras, and I exited via the
Mt. Whitney super highway.  This trail is downhill for quite a ways
from a 13,500' pass.  Near the pass a little creek started out of the
ground.  It flowed past marmots.  It flowed thru the campgrounds.  It
flowed directly past outhouses.  The creek was the trail for a couple
miles.  Suddenly the water went underground.  We rounded a corner, and
the water surfaced (spring-like) out of the ground and filled a pond
in a small valley in the trees.  A man who was apparently leading some
neophytes up the trail was holding his water bottle in the stream of
water with a bandanna carefully arranged across the opening.  "You 
want to be sure you keep the 'squiglies' out.", he explained to them.

I think any of the filters mentioned will beat this method.

- Sarah Officer
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Source for reflector oven
Date: 28 Aug 92 23:01:04 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Aug27.235050.19710@ecst.csuchico.edu> fholtsberry@oavax.csuchico.edu (Fran Holtsberry) writes:
>I usually make my own. If you are car camping, you can use a cardboard box 
>and three wire coathangers and some heavy duty foil and make a great 
>reflector oven.
>
>I have seen them made with 4 or 5 cooky sheets and some wire. (this takes 
>predrilling and some bolts and wingnuts).
>
>And I have made primitive ones with forked sticks and wire and foil.
 
So have I.  It took awhile to make and then only lasted a little while but
somehow I got more satisfaction from making he own out of a minimum of 
materials.  I've also taken two backpacking grills, covered one with aluminum
foil and then sat it on top of the other one.  That worked real well for 
biscuits.

-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 26 Aug 92 00:26:57 GMT
Organization: Unocal Corporation

In article <1992Aug25.222925.24783@hpcvca.cv.hp.com> scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn) writes:
>Except,  in this situation, the dog ran from its owners and faced off in
>front of me, barking extremely loudly.  My wife nearly had a heart attack
>right there (it happened so fast, she didn't even know a dog was in the
>area until it *loudly* barked only a couple feet away).  The owners just
>laughed.  The dog kept on barking and running at me, to make me move.
>He kept running back and forth until he ran past us on the trail, and
>came at us from the other direction.  If either of us had flinched, he
>probably would have bitten us.

Just use that gun that no one is supposed to bring into many National Parks,
but a lot people do so anyways.

(No, No, not that gun thread again! :-)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: flb@lune.berkeley.edu (Frederick Lee Burghardt)
Subject: Re: Thermarest vs. Ridgerest or Ensolite? 
Reply-To: flb@lune.berkeley.edu (Frederick Lee Burghardt)
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 00:30:44 GMT

Some time ago (maybe three months) there was a thread about Thermarest
punctures (Thermaleak), and I posted a note about a possible prevention.  
Since there's still interest in Thermarests, I thought I'd repeat it and add a
little bit.  The original posting:

I just bought a nifty little camp chair that uses a standard thermarest
as padding.  You insert the thermarest into a nylon (I guess) sheath
that has straps and buckles attached, and some stiffening rods.  When you
snap the straps and buckles together and adjust it right, it makes for a
comfy seat with back support - something I've often wished for in camp.
I didn't think about protection for the thermarest when I bought the chair,
but the nylon seems thick enough to provide a lot of puncture resistance.
You can keep the thermarest in the sheath, and just disconnect the buckles
and lay it flat for sleeping.  It also rolls up pretty well as an assembly.
I haven't used it yet in the backcountry, so I can't offer a product report,
but at least it's great for sitting on the floor at home.  BTW, I've never
had any problems with my thermarest, and I've had it for years.  I can't
remember who makes the chair, but I bought it at REI.

Additions/product report:

This chair is a great thing.  I've just returned from a month on the 
trail (John Muir, mostly) and I loved it (the trip and the chair).  It
rolls up into a bundle not particularly larger than the Thermarest
alone, is really easy to switch from chair to pad, and is a hell of a
lot less trouble than the lawn chairs I saw quite a few people 
carrying (lawn chairs are OK, I guess, but I just can't seem to
get into the idea aesthetically).  The chair is called a Thermalounger,
and I still can't remember who makes it.  I think the chair material
itself does offer puncture protection, since I used it on a lot of rough
surfaces without marking the Thermarest.  If you doubt the 
usefulness of such a thing as a camp chair, take a look at the 
faces of those in the party who don't have one when one in the
party does have one.

Lee Burghardt

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece)
Subject: Re: Top notch outdoor gear in SF?
Reply-To: jreece@sousa.intel.com
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:33:20 GMT

In article <Btp8G8.8s3@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>, molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar) writes:

> Greetings.  Would some kind soul point me at some of the best outdoor
> gear stores in San Fransisco?  I may get a chance to travel down there
> and I'd like to check out the better stores.  I'm looking for backpacking/
> hiking/climbing/canoeing clothing & gear.  Which stores have good prices
> on patagionia, TNF etc?

Go across the Bay to Berkeley.  It seems like every major US outfit is
either headquartered or has a store there.   REI, North Face, Sierra
Designs, and Marmot, for starters.  I think Walrus is there as well.	
------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Reece			"Oop. Ack. Pfffthpt"	
Not an Intel spokesman 			- Bill the Cat 
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: morrison@cup.hp.com (Bobbie_Morrison)
Subject: Custom boots in the West
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:53:08 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Cupertino, CA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3


I've been moaning and groaning about my boots for the last 3 or 4 years
(since I moved to CA) and I'm finally determined to do something about it.
See, the problem is that I have kind of strange feet.   So I'm getting
serious about getting some custom boots made.  While I'm aware of 
Limmer Boots from somewhere in the East (I actually have their brochure)
I would prefer to find some place out west to get them made so that I could
visit them personally.  

Sept. 4th I'm heading out to Salt Lake City, then City of Rocks Idaho, then
back this way to the Sierra.  So if someone recommended some custom boot
maker in Utah/Idaho/Nevada/CA  I could conceivably drop by.

Does anyone know of any custom boot makers in the West?  Have any 
experience with them?  Thanks very much for any info.  Please email if
possible since we are leaving this Friday and responses might not make it
to the net.

--Bobbie Morrison
  Hewlett-Packard
  Cupertino, CA


--
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Off to Alaska on Sunday!! (And eventualy to Denali...)
Date: 3 Sep 92 23:50:01 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Sep3.200705.4685@cc.gatech.edu> goldsman@cc.gatech.edu (Michael G. Goldsman) writes:
>Well, this Sunday I'll be flying stand-by to Houston and then on to Anchorage.
>
>I will hang around in Anchorage Monday to get my bearings and to finish 
>equipping.  Then on Tuesday morning I'll hop on the Alaska Railroad to 
>Denali National park. I plan to be in Denali for about 8 or 9 days.
>
>I'm going alone so basically, I'll probably be totally lost in Anchorage!
>I'll be on foot with a heavy pack, little sleep and  Jet-lag a la Continental 
>Airlines.
>
>Could someone recommend a cheap place to spend Sunday and Monday nights?
>I will probably hit the youth hostel, but if there's something a bit nicer
>yet still reasonable priced, I could go the extra $$'s for it. 
>Like no more than $25/night for a single... Is that possible?

I just saw some places last week with signs advertising rooms for
around $30/night.  It was in a part of town in which you might
not want to get out of your car.  (Reminds me of my aunt from Chicago:
whenvever somebody approaches her car she says "Quick, lock the doors!")

I also saw cabins down on the Kenai peninsula for $25/night.

>Can someone also  recommend a good Camping store where I can get 
>propane/butane cartrages for my stove?

There is a big local chain called Larry Kings.


-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: JB <jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com>
Subject: Re: Pasta cooker 4 backcountry
Organization: NT/BNR
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1b3
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1992 11:58:32 GMT

In article <17u6bpINN75u@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> Daniel Abernethy,
mtnbiker@singletrack.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>I'm planning a trip in Yos. for 2 nites and wish to eat REAL food on the
>first nite.  We are only going up to little Yos valley, niting there and
>then half dome via the cables and maybe merced lake.  Back to the subject
>there are going to be four of us and I'm a big eater, what can I use to 
>cook 1lb of spaghetti??  should I use macaroni instead?  I will pre-make
>the meatsauce and pack it in in a PB jar. It is a fairly short hike and
>all total I will be carrying less than 30 lbs.
>
>Can a Peak1 cook a lb. of pasta??
>Is it feasible to use just one large pot for all the cooking??

A friend suggested this trick, we have used it and it is a real fuel
saver.  Check your pasta package for cooking time, where cooking time =
x.  Bring enough water to cover the noodles to a boil, set pot OFF stove,
cover and let sit for x.  Noodles absorb water and are ready to eat.  I
suggest a tiny amount of oil to avoid clumping.  Disclaimer:  I don't
know about 1 lb of spaghetti, that's quite a mass.  Possible way to get
around this would be to buy the Capellini #9 noodle, cooking time of 2
min.  That way if you must cook in two batches, you still won't be using
large quantities of fuel.

We are spaghetti-a-philes; at least one meal on any trip is spaghetti
with our home dehydrated sauce (with parmesan, mushrooms, etc already
there) and the Capellini noodles.  Very filling, kinda homey tasting.
From: tucker@shiva.edsg.hac.com (George Tucker)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Oregon Wallowas...pack animals
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:42:24 GMT
Reply-To: tucker@shiva.UUCP (George Tucker)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA

In article <1992Aug25.002424.5764@sequent.com> karlm@sequent.com (Karl Maerz) writes:
[Randomly selected excerpt]
>I can assure you my Backcountry Experience(tm) on horseback
>is every bit as meaningful, personal, and revered as that
>of anyone else on this net.  It is somewhat dismaying that

Horses are ok in their proper place, but the central Sierra is not their place.
The space is small and heavily used, the trails are steep and rocky, and 
vegetation is sparse and fragile.  Keep the horses in the plains and hills and
deserts and lush meadows, and off the major backpack trails even there. 
You can get your meaningful experience where it doesn't ruin mine.

	 George Tucker        tucker@tcville.hac.com
What is the world's largest government subsidy to agriculture,
terrorism, speedboat manufacturing, organized crime, and prison
construction?
From: curtis@optima.UUCP (Curtis E. Dyreson)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: campgrounds in cameron, arizona?
Date: 2 Sep 92 22:28:24 GMT
Distribution: usa

> In article <1992Sep1.132456.9079@ryn.mro4.dec.com> manning@usdev.enet.dec.com (ANNE MANNING) writes:
>>
>>we'll be in the grand canyon in september, hiking down from the south rim.
>>then we're headed to zion and bryce.  are there any campgrounds on 
>>(i think) 89N within 50-75 miles after leaving the south rim?  the AAA map
>>shows a marker for a campground but does not have a listing in the book.
>>
>>any/all help much appreciated.

25 miles south of Cameron is a turnoff to Wupatki National Monument.  
Take turnoff.  Drive 6 miles through Wupatki.  You reach Lincoln 
National Forest sign.  Turn off road on one of the numerous dirt roads.
Drive 50 ft.  Park.  Enjoy.  Noone else will be there.  You are away
from the noise of the US89 with no driving on dirt roads (if you 
can drive dirt roads, there are other closer places).   Terrain is 
soft black sand with intermittent Juniper.  Stars typically magnificent.
Easy to find at night.  No showers or flush toilets, but no @#$%! 
tuna boat generators running all night.

Curtis Dyreson