From: altheimm@nextnet.ccs.csus.edu (Murray Altheim)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Witnessing to Jews: Isa. Trail
Date: 6 Jan 93 07:27:20 GMT
Organization: California State University Sacramento

In article <Jan.5.03.48.48.1993.1385@geneva.rutgers.edu>
       swf@elsegundoca.ncr.com (Stan Friesen) writes:
>|> In article <Dec.22.03.09.56.1992.12942@geneva.rutgers.edu> 
>|> REXLEX@linac.fnal.gov writes:
>|> >the First Covenant (never call it the old covenant &
>|> >don't call Jesus "Christ," rather Jeshua or Messiah).
>|> 
>|> Yes, we must deceive lest they reject it.  Let's wrap it up in a 
>|> Jewish package so they don't know what they're buying.  
>
>I see no deception here!  So it is better to speak to people in words
>they understand!  What is the problem with that!  (Remember "Christ"
>is just Anglicized Greek for "messiah", and "Jesus" is just Anglicized
>Latinized Greek for "Yeshua", so all that is being recommended here is
>to use the Jewish words rather than our goyish alterations).
>
>sarima@teradata.com			(formerly tdatirv!sarima)
>  or
>Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com

It seems that rather than a question of deception or packaging, it is a
question of accuracy and consistency. For the past two millenia, the 
Christian churches have consistently used terminology alien to the 
Jewish heritage it is derived from. This is of course in many cases
intentional, in others a matter of history and exigency.

Now that a large proportion of the scholarly community is involved in
questions of the historicity and life of "Jesus", it may be time to 
come to a concensus (or even a division) over the name of the Christian
Lord. To maintain "Jesus" is to ignore the historical reality -- that
"Jesus" was NOT the name he went by. As to how his name was actually
spelled, it is a misplaced question. If ever spelled out at all in his
native tongue of Aramaic, my understanding is that it either closely
is approximated or is identical to "Joshua". The "J" or "Y" question,
the "e" or "o" question are both moot. There is no way to recover how the
original Aramaic was pronounced, only the approximation from the modern
Aramaic branch or from the Hebrew, neither guaranteeing accuracy. Some
believe modern Hebrew is pronounced identically with the ancient; others
take a more realistic view -- languages evolve constantly. 

The other alternative (and I would guess the one the majority will follow)
is to continue with "Jesus", since acceptance of "Jeshua" or "Yeshua"
would be tantamount to promoting his Jewish heritage, something the 
RC Church does not deny, but certainly does not emphasize. "Joshua" would
be possibly the most accurate, yet the most confusing to many.

As to "Christ" being Anglicized Greek for "Messiah", this is not true.
The concepts of the verbatim "Annointed One" are quite different from the
religious and political implication of the Jewish Messiah. To pretend to
their equality of meaning is to ignore the variance of meaning, something
I believe it in the best interests of those more interested in maintainance
of the status quo than in a true understanding. 

Also, I believe most modern Jewish and Christian scholars (at least those
sensitive to the issue) use the term "Hebrew Bible" to refer to what is
variously termed the "Old Testament" or "Old Covenant". This is at least 
my preference, one gained from reading a fair amount of current Jewish
and Christian Scholarship. Witness Immanuel Tov's "Textual Criticism of
the Hebrew Bible" considered at the 1992 SBL conference to be the foremost
text on the subject. For a balanced discussion of the topic, refer to the
General Introduction to "The Literary Guide to the Bible" ed. by R. Alter
and F. Kermode (also an interested book). BTW, this certainly is not meant
to imply that the term "Old Testament" will disappear soon.

I should say that this post is not meant to disagree with your central 
point, Stan, only to call for more precision. And I do not claim to be the
most precise on this either :-). This issue calls for further discussion
and clarification.

Blessings and happy new year!

Murray

-- 
Murray M. Altheim      "Ils ont l'orteil de Bouc, & d'un Chevreil l'oreille,
Instructional Consultant    La corne d'un Chamois, & la face vermeille
CSU, Sacramento          Comme un rouge Croissant: & dancent toute nuict
altheimm@csus.edu       Dedans un carrefour, ou pres d'une eau qui bruict."