HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rwilmer@carrier.mitre.org (R. Wilmer)
Subject: Re: Verdi
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 15:06:30 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.041405.29046@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Joseph.J.Marcheso.Jr.@dartmouth.edu (Joseph J. Marcheso Jr.) writes:
>In article <1biiccINNcam@calvin.usc.edu>
>alves@calvin.usc.edu (William Alves) writes:
>
>> (resisting the urge to say something inflammatory about Verdi...:-)
>
>You better because Verdi would kick the pants of any of these
>"composers" talk about paying dues. Verdi wrote over twenty operas and
>had a career spanning 60 years. He was rejected from the conservatory
>at 18 and had to be funded while he took on a private tutor. His wife
>and two children died when he was composing one of his operas but he
>still continued. Each of his operas was better than the other and the
>slow steady progression led to works like Aida, Otello and Falstaff.
>
>You may have an urge sir. But you have no basis.

I think you can say that in most of Verdi's opera he came up with
something new--something that neither he nor anyone else had done
before.  I don't think it is right to say ``each of his operas was
better than the other''.  For one thing, that statement could
misleadingly belittle the masterpieces of Verdi's years.
For another, are you really willing to state that:

I Lombardi is better than Nabucco
I Due Foscari is better than Ernani
Alzira is better than Giovanna d'Arco
Il Corsaro is better than Macbeth
Stiffelio is better than Luisa Miller
Trovatore is better than Rigoletto
I Vespri Siciliani is better than Traviata
Forza is better than Ballo
Aida is better than Don Carlo
Falstaff is better than Otello?

Certainly in those succeeding operas there are new advances
and wonderful new inspirations.  Maybe you like them more,
find them more interesting.
But are they better?  Better than
Otello?  Better than Traviata?

Richard


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu
Subject: Kalkbrenner
Reply-To: pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu
Organization: SUNYA School of Public Health, Albany, NY
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 16:00:27 GMT


  Yesterday I heard on the radio one part of piano concerto by
French composer Kalkbrenner.  He was Beethoven's contemporary and music 
was quite nice - kind of "easy LvB" style.

  I checked Schwann catalog and to my surprise didn't find any
entries of Kalkbrenner's music.  Does anybody know about CD's with
Kalkbrenner's piano concertos ?  Did anybody hear more of his music ?

                                          Pawel Penczek
From: chu@acsu.buffalo.edu (John C. Chu)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Opera in the vernacular
Date: 16 Oct 92 14:06:22 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <CB.92Oct15101722@tamarack13.timbuk> (Chris Brewster) writes:
>This brings up my anti-favorite musical treatment of words: "the bombs
>bursting in air" in the Star-Spangled Banner.  It would be easy enough
>to put "the" before the beat, unstressed, and give "bombs" a longer note
>on the beat, but we force the syllables into the predetermined musical
>line, with a resulting effect of "THUH-b'ms bursting in air".

You must not be singing the Service Version of the Star Spangled
Banner. In the version "prepared for the Army and Navy song and band
books, and for School and Community singing, by a Committee of 12",
the words "the bombs" are 2 eighth notes on the third beat so they act
as a pick-up to the word "bursting". The result is like this:

"the bombs BURSTing in AIR", which sounds perfectly fine to me.

					john
				chu@acsu.buffalo.edu
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: EMI price increase
Date: 12 Oct 92 21:21:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bw11z3.Awz
Organization: University of Delaware

I'll stand by what I said about recording expenses, and the need to sell
a lot of copies to make them back.  But other people have been making
interesting points too.  I wish there was someplace we could read
insightful industry analyses such as Allan Kozinn used to supply on a
regular basis during the last days of HIGH FIDELITY and the life of
OPUS.  Certainly there's a lot of craziness in the business, and I'm not
saying the recording execs are altruistic saints; but still, they DO
have all these expenses every time they make a recording, and not every
recording sells like hotcakes.

As for selling back catalog at reduced prices:  It is my impression that
EMI, and other labels, actually do this to a much greater extent in
Europe than in the US.  I read in a UK magazine that the "top" price in
the US is already so much lower that the profit margin is almost as low
as it can be already.  I agree that for older recordings that may have
earned back their costs, the price on a new reissue ought to be lower.

However, on that last point, I suspect that the companies judge
sometimes whether an old recording is enough of a "classic" that they
can get away with asking full price.  I'm not defending this (I hate it,
as a consumer).  But I imagine they are trying to average out the
profit-and-loss over their whole catalog, the still-hot older recordings
helping to make up for the new ones (sometimes with valued younger
artists) that haven't sold enough to earn back their costs.

Also: the lack of a big back catalog puts labels like Harmonia Mundi or
Delos at a considerable disadvantage.  Each new recording has to earn
its way.  I don't know how some of these labels keep going, and I praise
them for managing to do so, and for doing interesting things.

Of course, if you have a Pavarotti or a Perlman under exclusive
contract, each new hit of theirs can help pay off a lot of misfires on
other releases.

But try thinking your way through the finances of keeping a record
company going sometime.  Consider the people whose contracts get dropped
because the company loses money on them every time (John McGlinn will
not be doing anything more for EMI after this year, for instance --
they've dropped a bundle on him).  It's scary.

Jon Alan Conrad
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hafner@ifi.unizh.ch (Michel Hafner)
Subject: Re: Glass meets Clive Barker response
Organization: University of Zurich, Department of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 15:16:30 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.132901.24677@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jefrank@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jason E Frank) writes:
>Glass-bashing at its most inane!  "Second-rate movie composer with
>mediocre orchestration and obscene derivateness"?--I'm afraid to ask
>how you would rate Vangelis and John Williams on these dimensions (not
>like I feel the latter is even worthy of mention in the same breath as
>Glass).  No matter what you choose to call his work, Glass if first and

Well, do we have some inane Williams bashing here?

>foremost an innovator--his "Koyaanisqatsi" was one of the first modern
>film scores to transcend our notion of "movie music".  His music packs
>a hell of a lot of emotion (at least for those who can get past the
>"repetitiveness"), and I for one am looking forward to seeing what he
>comes up with to accompany Barker's new horror film (can ANYTHING be
>more disturbing than "Music in 12 Parts"?).

Williams is equally important for his renewal of big orchestral soundtracks
with "Star Wars", not to mention all his other fine efforts ( E.T., Presumed
Innocent, Born on the fourth of July... ). 

>Obviously, plenty of people out there must not find his music so boring,
>or he wouldn't be as popular as he is or getting as many commissions as he
>does as one of the most sought-after composers.  If you can't stand his
>stuff, then fine--there are enough appreciative, open-minded people in the
>audience that your presence won't be missed.
>Now, anyone out there have any SUBSTANTIVE opinions?
From: josh@aris.ss.uci.edu (Josh Stern)
Subject: Re: Beatles and the canon
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 15 Oct 92 00:48:29 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.233902.27720@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>In article <1992Oct14.233024.257@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael J Valinis) writes:
>>"White Christmas"?  "Yesterday"?  Sorry, the number one top-selling single on 
>>the Hit Parade list is "Hey Jude".
>
>Hey Jude was #1 for 12 weeks, it's true.  WC sold the most sheet music,
>I think; and Yesterday has been recorded most often.  OK?
>
>Roger
>

So did the single "Hey Jude" actually sell more units than 
Michael Jackson's album "Thriller"?  I'm under the impression
that sales of singles are generally less than the sales of
albums these days.  If so, then more people come to own the
material in the latter form.

Josh
From: Joseph.J.Marcheso.Jr.@dartmouth.edu (Joseph J. Marcheso Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Glass meets Clive Barker response
Date: 13 Oct 92 07:53:53 GMT
 <98436@bu.edu>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <98436@bu.edu>
jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:

> With this sort of reaction to new composers
It's sad that you confuse novelty for originality. Every period was
accepted within 80 years but this modern and atonal music gets more
detractors every day. Its a music of snobs and the musically well
educated get back to basics get back to Verdi
From: Joseph.J.Marcheso.Jr.@dartmouth.edu (Joseph J. Marcheso Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Glass meets Clive Barker response
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:35:25 GMT
 <1992Oct13.233130.1125@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>  
 <1992Oct14.013706.22631@Princeton.EDU>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

Well we certainly have put our foot in our mouth tonight haven't we? No
well recognized hits well then you probably haven't heard "La Donne e
mobile" "Va pensiero" the entire soundtrack to Pretty Woman The
overture to La Traviata The triumphal March in Aida? Haven't heard
these???? Now let me think of ONE Glass "Tune" that matches his "rival"
in this category. Please tell me how much a gazillion is? THis is an
insult to compare one of the worlds greats to Glass.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: taha@sanantonio.cs.tcu.edu (Iraqi_Godfather)
Subject: Need opinion on Beethoven's FIDELIO
Organization: Texas Christian University
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:13:56 GMT

Hello World

I have Toscanini/NBC performance of FIDELIO.  However,
the recording quality is very bad.
I would love your recommendation about new CD recordings
that you may have heard. 

IF POSSIBLE, please e-mail me your suggestions.

Thanx in Advance.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Shiekh/ Aras Ezadeen Taha
An Iraqi Getting BBQed by Bush's orders !, 
   America should kick this SOB out of office !.  
                             +----------------------------------------- 
Senior; Computer Science     | Q:  Why Computer Professionals may 
Texas Christian University   |       confuse Halloween and Christmas ?! 
Box 31558, TCU,              | A:  Dec 25 = Oct 31  
Fort Worth, Texas 76129, USA +-----------------------------------------
............................. E-MAIL: taha@riogrande.cs.tcu.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: slothrop@cheshire.oxy.edu (Roger Lebow)
Subject: Re: Bach Cello Suites on Period Instrument: Rec. Wanted
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 07:04:16 GMT

<CSVBMD@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> Article 16060  writes  concerning  the  Bach
Cello Suites:
                                                                      
<These Suites were actually ignored for a couple  of  hundred  years; Casals
<didn't actually  rediscover  them  but  he  was  the first to perform them.
<Finding an "authentic" recording of these pieces would be in my opinion
<very difficult.

The first publication of the Suites  dates to 1825, with yet another edition
following a year later. There were five more editions in the nineteenth
century alone. There were clearly plenty of cellists playing Bach in the days
 
 
 
before Casals! (The notionCasals "discovered" the Bach Suites is a
viant on the hoary myth that Mendelssohn "discovered" Bach--to take nothing
away from each figure's signal contributions.)

Finding an authentic recording of *any* piece strikes me as a difficult task.
Thank goodness... ;-)

Roger L.
From: Joseph.J.Marcheso.Jr.@dartmouth.edu (Joseph J. Marcheso Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: DEBATE for those who are interested
Date: 15 Oct 92 03:04:15 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu


Mike hold on,

 I'm a fan of ALW AND a fan of opera. Opera is one of the great
artistic styles and has shown us composers of true greatness. I don't
think ALW is pretentious but I don't think he can match the genius of
Wagner and Verdi. I don't think I'm the opera "status quo" but I resent
your attack. I ADMIRE ALW. He IS trying to write more operatic works
(As he has said himself many times) and I APPRECIATE that. I think this
is GOOD. I'm not afraid of this "deviation." I don't like Glass for his
pretention however. But ALW's popular support and expanding appeal is
reassuring. Some of us are on your side!!!
From: midkiff@public.BTR.COM (Neil E. Midkiff  midkiff@btr.com)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Choral concert Saturday 10/17 in Mountain View
Date: 14 Oct 92 07:14:02 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: BTR Public Access UNIX, MtnView CA. For info contact: info@BTR.COM

In article <8144@public.BTR.COM> I wrote
>SCHOLA CANTORUM presents
>
>O L D   W O R L D    T R E A S U R E S
>
>Saturday, October 17, 8:00 pm
>
>Mountain View Center for the Performing Arts
>(Castro and Mercy Streets, Mountain View, California)

Sorry for the confusion: the original Subject: line was wrong in referring
to "Saturday 10/18"  The body of the article is correct; the concert will
be on Saturday the 17th.

I hope you'll come hear us in this concert; there are still some good seats
available.  Call the Mountain View Center box office at 415/903-6000.

-Neil
From: bemj1@aldham.cl.cam.ac.uk (Bernie Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Why LPs are superior to CDs (was Re: Why switch to CD?)
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:07:02 GMT
Reply-To: bemj1@aldham.cl.cam.ac.uk (Bernie Jones)
Organization: U of Cambridge, England

In article <1992Oct6.233235.368@viewlogic.com>, brad@buck.viewlogic.com
(Bradford Kellogg) writes:
|> 
|> In article <Oct06.211747.65931@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>,
hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben) writes:
|> |> >
|> |> Personally, I treat my CDs with the care and respect they deserve.
I have
|>  
|> Really? Neither have I. It seems my attempt at levity must have been
a wee bit 
|> obfuscated (or was it obnubilated?). Oh well. 
|> 
|> - BK

No no - we loved it. I wonder if it would be possible to put some sort of
fresnel lens on the front of those wonderful CD cases. Thus you could get
a BIG picture (or at least you see the middle of the picture at a large
size).

Incidentally, another problem with CDs is that they just don't fly well.
Throw an LP out of the window and it will frisbee quite happily. CDs, OTOH,
are simply too light - totlly useless. (For information I HAVE tried this, 
but it was with a Tiffany CD, so that's OK).
Mind you, I can easily stand an anglepoise lamp on my Ring Cycle boxed-set
you couldn't do that with LPS (well, not if they were upright anyway). 
The shiny discs come into their own as beermats too!

Bernie
From: jqdoumen@vub.ac.be (Doumen Jan)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: MusicTeX and MuTeX
Date: 12 Oct 1992 03:11:38 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Someone asked if there are macro's for TeX and LaTeX for making musicscores.
The answer is YES !
It is called MusicTeX and can be ftp'ed from a lot of sites.
I don't know the nearest adress for your place, who ever asked for this,
but I suggest you subscribe to mutex@stolaf.edu or musictex@stolaf.edu
and ask for a list of ftp-sites.
The difference between MuTeX and MusicTeX is that the first is for
single bar notation and the MusicTeX is for multiple bar notation.

Hope this helps.

DeJean.

--
/=============================================================================\
| Doumen Jan                                Voice : 32 2 3590209              |
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--
/=============================================================================\
| Doumen Jan                                Voice : 32 2 3590209              |
| Vrije Universiteit Brussel                Fax   : 32 2 3590390              |
| Instituut Voor Moleculaire Biologie                                         |
| Department For Ultra-structure                                              |
| B - 1640 Sint-Genesius-Rode            Internet : jqdoumen@vub.ac.be        |
| Belgium                             EARN/BITNET : jqdoumen@BBRBFU60.BITNET  |
\=============================================================================/
From: rtut@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Raymond Tuttle)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Stokowski Showcase - a CD review
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:40:50 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

Even when he was in his 90's, Leopold Stokowski maintained both his
vitality and his originality.  A new mid-priced reissue on Angel/EMI
Classics' Phoenixa label (CDM 64140) catches the Maestro in 1975 and
1976 with the National Philharmonic Orchestra, an ensemble consisting of
musicians from some of London's finest orchestras. 

Entitled "Stokowski Showcase," this 75 minute collection is made up of
ten appetizers, ranging from the 3 1/2 minute "Procession of the Sardar"
by Ippolitov-Ivanov to Beethoven's Leonora Overture No. 3.  Each of the
pieces is characterized by lively, entertaining performances in the
idiosyncratic Stokowski manner. 

Almost all of the pieces have been modified in some way by the great
Maestro: orchestrations are retouched; tempi, dynamics and phrasing are
played with and occasionally sections of the score are rewritten -
sometimes subtly, sometimes drastically.  But not even Toscanini could
always resist  the temptation to recompose, and when the results are as
enjoyable as those heard here, why should we complain? 

A diabetically distraught arrangement of Tchaikovsky's song "Again, as
before, alone" (here called "Solitude") is a real stand-out here. Some of the
other highlights of this collection are the xylophone glissandi (yes!) in
Sousa's "The Stars and Stripes Forever"  and the frantic tempo in the
closing section of Rossini's "William Tell"  Overture (even if it's
impossible for the brass to keep with with Stokie's beautiful hands). 

The recording was made in London's West Ham Central Mission, and it is
spacious, almost to the point of being overly-reverberant.  This collection
of morsels satisfies, certainly not because of  its rigorous  adherence to
the explicit wishes of the composers, but because of its magical ability to
communicate with the listener. 




--
****************************************   Raymond S. Tuttle
"Dunkel ist das Leben, ist der Tod,"       University of Rochester
but it's nothing to get depressed about!   (still with his two little 
****************************************   white mice).
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU ("Bill Harrison (713)-743-2789")
Subject: Re: The Abuse of Classical Music
Reply-To: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 20:50:14 GMT

 [...]
>>>Oh, and then there's United(?)'s
>>>mutilation of Rhapsody in Blue on all their commercials.  
>>> 
>> 	At least they could have used Grofe's Avation Suite, 'cept nobody
>> 	would recognize it, (and it pictures a propeller driven plane.)
>> 

United might have chosen the *Ballet Mechanique* by Anthiel. That piece 
actually uses airplane propellers to add to the (splendid) noise... ;=)

Bill
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\               /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Bill Harrison,            \             /       "Be as radical as... |
| University of Houston, TX  >-----------<         reality itself"     |
| CHEM91@JETSON.BITNET      /             \                V. I. Lenin |
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/               \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: carnes@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Richard Carnes)
Subject: Re: Alternate Classical-Music FAQ Memo
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 15:46:55 GMT

>(11) Why should music majors have to learn Music Theory?
>
> Why do soldiers dig holes?  

Exactly.  It's called "discipline".

> If you think your discussion of the merits
> of theory class are going to influence your professors to change the
> rules just for you, you have another [think] coming.  Your professors
> had to take those courses.

The purposes of music theory classes are indeed similar to those of
military boot camp:

(1) Many students entering music school have the idea that music is a
lot of fun, whereas most music professionals work themselves to
exhaustion for peanuts.  The transformation of the music student
toward a more professional attitude toward his or her craft ideally
begins in the freshman year.  Theory classes, by being made as tedious
and frustrating for students as possible, can play a valuable role in
this process.  It is not easy to make the study of music boring and
discouraging to young students full of enthusiasm for the subject, but
as many teachers have shown, it can be done.

(2) Theory classes, by failing a certain percentage of the students,
provide a welcome method for weeding out the unfit -- one of the basic
purposes of higher education.

(3) What if drill sergeants started responding to questions like, "Why
do we have to march 50 miles today, sir?" ?  The entire operation of
the military depends on recruits' learning unquestioning obedience to
their superiors, and the same applies mutatis mutandis to institutions
of higher learning.  If professors begin to respond to questions like,
Why do we have to learn to take dictation?, sooner or later students
will be asking questions like, Couldn't we become better musicians
faster by doing X instead of this? or, Why is so much emphasis placed
on grades here? or, Why is tuition so high and the quality of teaching
so low at this school?  Eventually the students will be questioning
everything about the institution, and nobody will want to follow the
rules.  Result: chaos.
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Opera in the vernacular
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:50:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bw6KKD.2vs
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <1992Oct14.211728.21236@osf.org> coren@osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:

[In reference to Andrew Porter's translation of the RING:]

>What did he do with "Rache rieten sie mir!"?

(This is Hagen's line as he stabs Siegfried.  Literally, "They call me
to revenge!", "they" being the ravens -- Wotan's symbols -- just
sighted.)

"Vengeance!  That's what they cry!"

Not deathless prose, but it articulates the line correctly (division
after the first 2 syllables), and places "Vengeance," correctly, on the
same spot as "Rache."

That's one of the biggest problems with Wagner -- the orchestra responds
to certain important words as they're being uttered, so they must be
placed on the right beats.  Unless you're careful, this can get you into
very Germanic, but un-English, inverted order.

Jon Alan Conrad