HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper)
Subject: Re: bringing family to Usenix
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:13:46 GMT

In article <1422@chorus.chorus.fr> grob@chorus.fr (Lori S. Grob) writes:
> I think the problem that many people have faced is that it always
> seems like a great opportunity to take a vacation and then you are tied
> up all day and frequently in the evening as well.
> 
> ...
> 
> The best solution to this is to take your vacation just before
> or just after the conference. This way you still get your planefare
> paid but you are sure of being able to enjoy yourself with
> your spouse and children.

Well, when I went to Usenix I spent a lot of time with my spouse, even
during the day.  Of course, he was attending also, since he and I both
do UNIX stuff for a living.  (We even wrote a joint conference
report.)  This solution won't work for everyone, of course, and it's
hard to implement on short notice for those Usenixes in good tourist
locations. :-)

Evelyn C. Leeper  |  +1 908 957 2070  |  att!mtgzy!ecl or  ecl@mtgzy.att.com
--
"God does not play dice with the universe."  --Albert Einstein
"Albert, stop telling God what to do."  --Niels Bohr
Newsgroups: comp.org.usenix
From: tommy@hilbert.att.com (Tom Reingold)
Subject: bringing family to usenix
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ, USA
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 02:36:12 GMT

I need advice.

I'll be at the January Usenix in San Diego.  Since my company pays my
airfare, I figure I'll take my family.  It's a good time for a vacation
and I've never seen San Diego.  How do people manage this?

If they stay for the entire period of the conference, they won't see me
anyway since I'll probably be totally busy the whole day, every day.
If, when I get to the hotel after a day of "conferring", she'll ask for
a break from the kids which I will be unable give her since I'll be too
tired.

But if my wife comes at or near the end of the conference, she somehow
has to take the kids on the plane by herself.  They will be aged one
and four.

I know some people bring families.  How?
-- 
Tom Reingold
AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ
tommy@boole.att.com or att!boole!tommy
Newsgroups: comp.org.usenix
From: feirtag@i5120b.nrl.navy.mil (Fred Feirtag)
Subject: Re: bringing family to Usenix
Organization: Naval Research Lab, Washington, DC
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:27:06 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.223503.6837@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com>, st@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Scott Taylor 3690) writes:
|> In article <BzBGLq.9J3@zoo.toronto.edu> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:
|> >Agreed.  But if all you are sent for is the talks, your employer would
|> >be better off just buying you a copy of the proceedings and telling you
|> >to read it.  If your employer thinks it worth sending you in person, they
|> 
|> I have never attended a Usenix conference.  I hope that Usenix-ites are NOT
|> as stuffy as some of the people who have responded like this.
|> 
|> C'mon Henry, attending the talks != reading the proceedings.  Are you angry
|> because someone did not like your BOF?
|> 
|> Why dont you guys just relax a little?


I have heard at least two of Henry's lectures--Awf & #ifdef.  I thought
they were both EXCELLENT!

I have found the USENIX conferences to be very well run--better by far
than the few others that I've seen.  Certainly, I would change a few
things, if I could, but I have found attending a USENIX to be a rare
and precious experience.  I agree with those who have said that it is
work and not play.  It seems very wasteful not to make the absolute
most of the time there, even if it is quite tiring.

If anyone follows up on this post, I won't see it, since my Christmas
vacation starts now, so mail me.  By the way, does anyone have a news
reader setup that can wake up periodically and capture everything in
given groups?  I've built xrn (using it now) and I guess I could tear
it all apart to make one, if no one has done it already.

--Fred

                              |  The surrounding atmosphere was so milky
Fred Feirtag                  |  I doubt that I could see for more than
Naval Research Lab, Code 7120 |  forty miles.  Which might sound like
Washington, DC  20375         |  a lot to an Angeleno or New Yorker.
feirtag@wave.nrl.navy.mil     |  But to a Taoseno, such limitations are
(202) 404 - 8502              |  a tragedy of our times."
                              |                            --John Nichols
Newsgroups: comp.org.usenix
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: bringing family to usenix
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 04:11:58 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <tommy.724214172@hilbert> tommy@hilbert.att.com (Tom Reingold) writes:
>I'll be at the January Usenix in San Diego.  Since my company pays my
>airfare, I figure I'll take my family.  It's a good time for a vacation...

The theory is good.  The practice is that Usenix (done right) is not a
vacation and can't be treated as one.

>If they stay for the entire period of the conference, they won't see me
>anyway since I'll probably be totally busy the whole day, every day.
>If, when I get to the hotel after a day of "conferring", she'll ask for
>a break from the kids which I will be unable give her since I'll be too
>tired.

Indeed so.  There is no remedy for this, really, unless you deliberately
decide that you're going to skip a substantial fraction of the conference.
You have to plan on the assumption that attending Usenix is *work*, and
work with unusually long hours at that.  It may not feel like it to you,
but this is the way it works from your family's viewpoint.  Successful
planning has to start with realistic assumptions; if you're going to
be busy all day and tired afterward, and your wife thinks you're going
to be available to help with the kids, there is trouble ahead.

The only good approach is to take your vacation before (or after).  Come
a week early, vacation vigorously, and either see them off homeward before
the conference starts or have them do something which doesn't need you.

>But if my wife comes at or near the end of the conference, she somehow
>has to take the kids on the plane by herself.  They will be aged one
>and four.

This is problematic, to be sure.  I don't have personal experience with
such situations (no kids), but it looks to me like if you assume no air
travel without both adults along *and* no outside help with the kids
during the conference *and* you attending the conference full time,
it just isn't going to work as a pleasant vacation.  You need to
find some way around at least one of those assumptions.  If one-adult
air travel definitely isn't practical, then your wife needs relief
somehow:  professional babysitting, cooperation with other attendees
with the same problem, or you taking some time out in the middle.

>I know some people bring families.  How?

The one case I saw close up (a friend of mine), they came early for
vacationing, he included her and the kids in his activities when
possible (e.g. having them along for dinner with friends), she had
some help (my girlfriend went touristing with her and the kids one
day), and I think he took significant time out too.
-- 
"God willing... we shall return."       | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
       -Gene Cernan, the Moon, Dec 1972 |  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
Xref: sparky comp.org.usenix:1090 comp.org.sug:516 comp.org.uniforum:104 comp.unix.large:397 comp.os.misc:972 comp.misc:4643
From: tommy@hilbert.att.com (Tom Reingold)
Subject: Re: bringing family to usenix
Reply-To: tommy@boole.att.com
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ, USA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:34:59 GMT

henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:

$ tommy@hilbert.att.com (Tom Reingold) wrote: 
$ ->I'll be at the January Usenix in San Diego.  Since my company pays my
$ ->airfare, I figure I'll take my family.  It's a good time for a vacation
$ ->and I've never seen San Diego.  How do people manage this?

$ you don't.  a conference is not vacation (unless you are defrauding
$ your company); it is work.  
$ [...]

It seems that both Henrys misunderstood me.  My company will pay my
airfare and hotel.  Of course I do not expect them to pay a dime for my
wife's or children's expenses.  And my intention is to enjoy San Diego
before or after the conference.  I hope no one sees anything wrong with
taking advantage that I'll already be there without having paid my
airfare out of pocket.
-- 
Tom Reingold
AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ
tommy@boole.att.com or att!boole!tommy
From: smb@research.att.com (Steven Bellovin)
Newsgroups: comp.org.usenix
Subject: Re: bringing family to Usenix
Date: 18 Dec 92 00:36:07 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <1992Dec16.223503.6837@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com>, st@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Scott Taylor 3690) writes:
> In article <BzBGLq.9J3@zoo.toronto.edu> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:
> >Agreed.  But if all you are sent for is the talks, your employer would
> >be better off just buying you a copy of the proceedings and telling you
> >to read it.  If your employer thinks it worth sending you in person, they
> 
> I have never attended a Usenix conference.  I hope that Usenix-ites are NOT
> as stuffy as some of the people who have responded like this.
> 
> C'mon Henry, attending the talks != reading the proceedings.

That's exactly Henry's point -- that there's far more to a conference
than the printed papers, or even the oral presentation of them.  One
can go to ``converse, confer, and likewise hobnob with one's brother [sic]
wizards''.  That's the main point -- to be able to grab someone in the
hallway and find out what's *really* going on, and to arrive, together,
at a better solution to your joint problems.
Newsgroups: comp.org.usenix
From: john@iastate.edu (John Hascall)
Subject: Re: bringing family to Usenix
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:21:18 GMT

tommy@boole.att.com writes:
}henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:
}$ tommy@hilbert.att.com (Tom Reingold) wrote: 
}$ ->I'll be at the January Usenix in San Diego.  Since my company pays my
}$ ->airfare, I figure I'll take my family.  It's a good time for a vacation
}$ ->and I've never seen San Diego.  How do people manage this?

}$ you don't.  a conference is not vacation (unless you are defrauding
}$ your company); it is work.  
}$ [...]

}It seems that both Henrys misunderstood me.

Not everyone is as gung-ho as the Henrys.  My wife (no kids yet) came
with me to Usenix in San Antonio and we had a great time.  First,
I had all day Tuesday free because the tutorial I wanted to attend was
on Monday, and there was one afternoon in which none of the talks were
about anything my employer or I was vaguely interested in (so we went to
the zoo).  Also, I found the evening BOFs to be just about worthless
(Sorry, Henry S., this includes yours), in my opinion, you can get twice
the information in one evening on Usenet (so perhaps it has value for those
without Usenet).

I also don't understand those who say that Usenix is so draining ...
maybe they just don't work so hard regularly.  ;-)

So, if your wife can stand the kids during the day I would take her along.

I really don't understand the attitude that if you don't spend every waking
moment (and even sleeping is suspect) either at some official function (no
matter how irrelevant to you and your employeer) or smoozing with the
``cognoscenti'' in the bar then you are defrauding your company.
I am sent to these things for a purpose -- I accomplish my purpose and
what I do with the other hours of the day is my own damn business.

John

PS, I did find the `regular' parts of Usenix to be extremely useful
    and informative and am planning to attend again soon.
-- 
John Hascall                   ``An ill-chosen word is the fool's messenger.''
Systems Software Engineer
Project Vincent
Iowa State University Computation Center  +  Ames, IA  50011  +  515/294-9551
Newsgroups: comp.org.usenix
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: bringing family to Usenix
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 00:45:14 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <1992Dec16.223503.6837@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com> st@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Scott Taylor 3690) writes:
>>... if all you are sent for is the talks, your employer would
>>be better off just buying you a copy of the proceedings and telling you
>>to read it...
>
>C'mon Henry, attending the talks != reading the proceedings.  Are you angry
>because someone did not like your BOF?

Nope, everyone has the right to their own opinions, even if that means
having the bad taste to dislike my BOF. :-)

A *well done* talk is better than just reading the proceedings.  Not all
talks, alas, are well done.  That aside, though, you could get *most* of
the technical content by reading the proceedings.  (Personally, I do an
initial quick pass over the proceedings to get an idea of which talks are
worth going to, and I'm very selective about which ones I attend.)  But
the talks are not the high point of Usenix, at least not for experienced
attendees.  (How's that for an elegant way to say "old fogies"? :-))
-- 
"God willing... we shall return."       | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
       -Gene Cernan, the Moon, Dec 1972 |  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
From: lab@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Lisa A. Bloch)
Newsgroups: comp.org.usenix
Subject: WIP session
Date: 14 Dec 1992 15:57:30 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu

As is usual at USENIX Technical Conferences, there is a Work in
Progress session at San Diego.  This session will be at 6pm on
Wednesday, January 27.

The Work in Progress session provides an opportunity to get up
and speak for 10 minutes on your current work and, perhaps,
present research results that were too recent to be included in
the conference program.

Individuals wishing to make a Work in Progress presentation should
bring a summary of their work, including your name and presentation
title, on a typed, double-spaced, single sheet of paper for display
prior to the session.  Or, preferably, give it in advance to the
session chair, Lisa Bloch.  Time slots are assigned on a first come,
first served basis.

Past Work in Progress sessions have provided speakers with feedback
that they were able to incorporate into larger papers presented at
subsequent conferences.

		Lisa Bloch
		lab@gnu.ai.mit.edu, lab@usenix.org
Newsgroups: comp.org.usenix
From: peter@sug.org (Peter Salus)
Subject: Re: Usenix Institutional Representative to POSIX
Keywords: Usenix, POSIX, TCOS, Institutional Representative
Organization: The Sun User Group
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:12:27 GMT

As a standards buff who also writes a column on standards, 
I'd like to welcome Jeff Haemer to the IR post.  While 
he may think he's aware of what he's getting into, he 
doesn't really.  But he is a superb choice and will be 
an appropriate successor to Peter Collinson.

I'd like to express my personal appreciation to Peter 
for his work over the past two years.  More importantly, 
I think we should all be grateful to USENIX for funding 
this effort.

The USENIX IR has a unique position within the TCOS standards
community:  he stands above the vendor-driven fray as a true
representative of the technical community.

Again, a welcome to Jeff and a bouquet apiece to Peter 
and the USENIX Board.

Peter
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Sun User Group, Inc; Suite 315; 1330 Beacon St.; Brookline, MA 02146
	voice +1 617 232-0514		fax +1 617 232-1347
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From: mo@gizmo.bellcore.com (Michael O'Dell)
Subject: Re: Usenix Institutional Representative to POSIX
Keywords: 
 
Reply-To: mo@bellcore.com
Organization: Center for Chaotic Repeatabilty
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 20:31:13 GMT

On one of the rare occassions when it seems OK to speak for
the rest of the Board, our thanks to Peter Salus for the kind
words regarding USENIX funding of Standards work.

And a personal "welcome aboard" to Jeff, and my unbounded
thanks to Peter Collinson.

	-Mike
Newsgroups: comp.org.usenix
From: peter@dragon.acadiau.ca (Peter Steele)
Subject: uniquid daemon
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 13:22:40 GMT

Has anyone managed to get the "uniquid" daemon that was described
as the Long Beach LISA conference? If so, I'd like to hear from you.
Thanks.
-- 
Peter Steele        Unix Services Manager            peter.steele@acadiau.ca 
Acadia Univ., Wolfville, NS, Canada B0P 1X0  902-542-2201  Fax: 902-542-4364
Newsgroups: comp.org.usenix
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: bringing family to Usenix
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:53:47 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <Bz9C3L.H7A@news.iastate.edu> john@iastate.edu (John Hascall) writes:
>I am sent to these things for a purpose -- I accomplish my purpose and
>what I do with the other hours of the day is my own damn business.

Agreed.  But if all you are sent for is the talks, your employer would
be better off just buying you a copy of the proceedings and telling you
to read it.  If your employer thinks it worth sending you in person, they
presumably want you to acquire information and contacts that cannot be
found in the proceedings.  That sort of thing doesn't usually stop at 5PM.
-- 
"God willing... we shall return."       | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
       -Gene Cernan, the Moon, Dec 1972 |  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
Newsgroups: comp.org.usenix
From: john@iastate.edu (John Hascall)
Subject: Re: bringing family to Usenix
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:02:29 GMT

grob@chorus.fr (Lori S. Grob) writes:
}john@iastate.edu (John Hascall) writes:
}>tommy@boole.att.com writes:
}>}henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:
}>}$tommy@hilbert.att.com (Tom Reingold) wrote: 
}>}$->I'll be at the January Usenix in San Diego.  Since my company pays my
}>}$->airfare, I figure I'll take my family.  It's a good time for a vacation
}>}$->and I've never seen San Diego.  How do people manage this?

}>}$ you don't.  a conference is not vacation (unless you are defrauding
}>}$ your company); it is work.  

}So while it is clear that for you, the conference ends at 5pm, I
}think that you are being a little quick to assume that this is the 
}case for everyone.

Oh, this is just rich.  *I'm* being a little quick to assume???
I'm not the one painting everyone who doesn't attend every second
of every event with the broad brush of ``defrauding your company''.

}The best solution to this is to take your vacation just before
}or just after the conference. This way you still get your planefare
}paid but you are sure of being able to enjoy yourself with
}your spouse and children.

In my opinion, take your vacation whenever you think it will work
for you.  In my opinion, you will have free time.  At the worst
your family will have to entertain themselves Wed, Wed eve (if
you choose to BOF), Thurs, Friday (morn).  Thursday night is the
reception (I got a ticket for my wife through the generousity
of someone not going), but with small kids that would not work well,
so you could skip that (yea, yea, yea, I know, smoozing is expected
of some attendees -- well, in my opinion there was little mingling;
you had a clump of DECies, a clump of IBMers, a clump of Convexites,
a clump of the Usenix cognoscenti, ... etc.)
Friday afternoon seemed really sparse, I think lots of people snuck
home early -- and I don't know if it's because the Friday afternoon
talks were less generally applicable or vice-versa.

Well, that's my two cents (or so) worth.  Obviously opinions vary wildly
here -- find out what your employer expects and do what you think will
work for you.

John
-- 
John Hascall                   ``An ill-chosen word is the fool's messenger.''
Systems Software Engineer
Project Vincent
Iowa State University Computation Center  +  Ames, IA  50011  +  515/294-9551
Xref: sparky comp.org.usenix:1091 comp.org.sug:517 comp.org.uniforum:105 comp.os.misc:973 comp.misc:4644 comp.unix.large:398 comp.unix.admin:6721
From: risner@ms.uky.edu (James Risner)
Subject: [386bsd] Winter USENIX = Share a room?
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 20:27:51 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

Hi,
	I will be attending Usenix in San Diego as an individual.
I need to find someone to share the cost of a room.  I will be
flying in on the 22nd and leaving on the 29th.

	I would like to find someone interested in 386bsd to share
the room.

	If anyone would like to split the cost of a double
($75/2) please let me know so we can make plans.

James Risner
606-232-6977 or 606-273-5950
1600 Woodspring Ct.
Lexington, KY  40515
Newsgroups: comp.org.usenix
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: bringing family to usenix
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 08:01:37 GMT

tommy@hilbert.att.com (Tom Reingold) wrote: 
->I'll be at the January Usenix in San Diego.  Since my company pays my
->airfare, I figure I'll take my family.  It's a good time for a vacation
->and I've never seen San Diego.  How do people manage this?

you don't.  a conference is not vacation (unless you are defrauding
your company); it is work.  

->If they stay for the entire period of the conference, they won't see me
->anyway since I'll probably be totally busy the whole day, every day.

true.

->If, when I get to the hotel after a day of "conferring", she'll ask for
->a break from the kids which I will be unable give her since I'll be too
->tired.

probably true.

->But if my wife comes at or near the end of the conference, she somehow
->has to take the kids on the plane by herself.  They will be aged one
->and four.

this happens all the time.  flight attendants are trained to help with
small infants when necessary.  you could bring mother-in-law or
grandmother along if this is going to be a big concern; this would
also fix the problems you touched on earlier.

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
#     for information on the league for programming freedom, 
#                     write to lpf@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: comp.org.usenix
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: bringing family to usenix
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:49:25 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <tommy.724347299@hilbert> tommy@boole.att.com writes:
>$ you don't.  a conference is not vacation (unless you are defrauding
>$ your company); it is work.  
>
>It seems that both Henrys misunderstood me.  My company will pay my
>airfare and hotel.  Of course I do not expect them to pay a dime for my
>wife's or children's expenses.  And my intention is to enjoy San Diego
>before or after the conference.  I hope no one sees anything wrong with
>taking advantage that I'll already be there without having paid my
>airfare out of pocket.

I can't speak for the other Henry, but I'd say you misunderstood me,
rather than vice-versa. :-)  There's nothing immoral about the plans you
outline above.  My point was that if you plan to "do" the conference
thoroughly, getting full benefit from both formal and informal events,
you will have no free time during it, and you should plan accordingly.
-- 
"God willing... we shall return."       | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
       -Gene Cernan, the Moon, Dec 1972 |  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
Newsgroups: comp.org.usenix