HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tabron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu ("Sod the proles!")
Subject: Re: Through a looking glass, darkly
Reply-To: tabron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:41:36 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.051335.16251@newsroom.utas.edu.au>, u883161@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Alex Tewes) writes:
>Greetings all!
>
>I have a question that has been bothering me for a while.
>
>Our group exists right at the edge of the world, in the far far Southern 
>Reaches.  We only know the richness and variety of the SCA in the Greater Known
>World from photos and the tales of travellers.  In looking at all the photos
>which have made their way down to us, I notice the complete absence of black
>faces.  Why is that?   Is the SCA in some way culture-specific in not being
>interesting to blacks? or is there some prejudice involved?
>
>My somewhat limited experience is that SCA folk are liberal in thought and deed
>so I cannot believe that prejudice is the answer.  I understand that blacks 
>make up about 13% of the USA population, if so, why do they appear to be so 
>rare within our ranks?
>
>I'm asking this out of sheer curiosity and hope not to have offended anyone.
>
>Martin de Mont Blanc    (mka Alex Tewes)
>
>Shire of Ynys Fawr/ Lochac/  West
>
>Purpure, four bendlets enhanced
>and in base a mullet of five, Or
Bravo to Martin de Mont Blanc for raising the question!
I have wondered about this question for years. Despite the undeniable truth
that I have met members who were racist, I do believe that the overwhelming
majority of SCAdians are welcoming and friendly to _everyone_. Why is it then
that just about everyone in the SCA is white?

Eric Aarskog raised some good points in his posting on this topic, though I
would suggest (though I have no statistics for this) that the officialdom of
the SCA is rather discouraging to the idea of exploring the middle ages of
non-Western cultures (the current fad for Japanese personas notwithstanding.) I
know this board is peopled by many who are interested in non-European medieval
history, but beyond the shining borders of the Rialto there are many who truly
believe, in good or sometimes bad faith, that the purpose of the SCA is to
explore the _European_ Middle Ages.

I raise this because I think it might have a connection. I have met many people
interested in the medieval history of their own heritage -- African-Americans,
Asians and Native Americans included. While there is currently a fad for Asian
history and personas, this was not true when I joined 8-odd years ago. On the
local level, I have seen little support for work with traditions other than the
usual Western ones.

I still remember an article I read on medieval observances of Passover in TI a
couple of years back. Not only was it a nice change from the usual
Norman/Anglo-Saxon/Celtic/Viking/Italian-Spanish stuff, it taught me something
I did not know about a culture that was a vital part of medieval life. It
brought a sparkle of newness to my interest in the Middle Ages that had been
lacking for a long time.

Judith Tabron
Raedwynne aet thaem Grene Wudu
tabron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: comptec92024@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Aluminium armor
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 08:27:05 GMT


have my own preference, I don't like stainless very much although it does look
sharp on a black background. I do like my suit of chain, and I wear it when we
do demos. I wear a lot of cloth becouse it is light and flashy and I add touches
like a chain coif. I wear fighting pants to cover my horrid steel knees. I am
building a new spangen helm becouse it is more early period. But under my chain
plastic that is safe then in a suit of beutiful soft leather that is not safe.

I do have my own preferences. I don't like stainless very much, although is
does look sharp on a black background. I do like my chain and wear it when we
do demos. I wear lots of cloth becouse it is light and flashy and I add bits
like a chain coif. I wear fighting pants to cover my horrid steel knees. But if
you were to look under the chain or the cloth that I am wearing you will find
a most unperiod suit of plastic armor. I wear it becouse it does the number one
thing that armor is supose to do, it protects me. It is also cheep, light,
flexable and packs down to less then a cubic foot.

If you want to talk authentic what kind of shield do you have and how do you
hang it? Personally I run a small center boss round becouse that is authentic
for early period. But I am mostly interested in how the fighting was done and
not in a fashion show.  

I applaud anyone who takes the time to produce as period armor as possible, but 
lets not develope  " MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY " additudes.

  
                  Mackenzie
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 15:42:48 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <BRANDON.92Dec15134549@euler.math.brown.edu> brandon@euler.math.brown.edu (Joshua Brandon) writes:
>Carolus writes:
>>
>>"gyronny of six from canton or and azure, a catamount dormant
>>argent"
>>      ---Bounced because of conflict with a catmount on a
>>         different field.
>>
>>         Plenty different by medieval standards.
>>
>>"azure, a martlet volant argent, in chief three mullets of four
>>points or."
>>  
>>       ---Boounced for mundane conflict with Lang, of england.
>>          Langs was a dove, and the thre mullets were as i recall
>>          re[laced by crossed crosslets.
>>
>>          Plenty different by medieval standards.
>
>Prove it.  I'm willing to look at documentation.
>
>(Defining exactly what "plenty different" is supposed to mean would be a good
>start.)

*I* can't prove it. I have neither the time, nor the inclination
to go delving into heraldry. That is a heralds job.

However, when I made the assertion that these devices were
"plenty different", I was merely repeating the opinions
of several very learned heralds.

Since then, Arval (and I believe taghd, but I'm possibly
misremembered) have both posted that the SCA heralds are
much fussier than period heralds ever were.

Their opinions carry more weight than mine, they being far
more learned.

Carolus Malvoix
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
From: gleason@scf16.scf.loral.com (Robert Gleason)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Rattan Sword-making
Date: 14 Dec 92 17:14:46 GMT
Organization: Loral Space and Range Systems, Sunnyvale, CA

>
>  Therion <HZS@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>  > Parlan comments on my shrink-tubing question:
>  > >I too use shrink tubing on my swords.  I find it about
>  > >doubles the life of a stick to around 4 months.
>
>  > A rattan sword only lasts you four months? Good Gods, man, how hard are you
>  > folks hitting each other?  (only 1/2 smiley here.)
>
>  It is worse than that.  He said that it *doubles* the life of a sword.
>  Note that he may be using rattan that has had the husk removed.  That 
>  does tend to reduce the life of a sword by a rediculous amount.
>
>  Kwellend-Njal
>  who always uses rattan with the husk still on it.



Actually, I don't feel that we hit each other too hard. Many say that
us Westies hit harder than others and that may be true; but I have
never been severely injured.

As for the four month life span of a sword, that has been the same
for many that I fight. Seeing as a sword I had over a year ago
lasted me 10 months I feel the 4 month cases are possibly due to 
bad rattan (I have seen some fighters get brooms in just a week).
Apparently much of what we get here is very dry.

That brings forth a question or two:

How long on average do most people's swords last?

and

I know there are different types of rattan. Can anyone tell us
the different types and perhaps rate them?


My thanks,

Parlan MacGillivray -- Encinal, Mists, West.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: Intentional Violence!... Help!
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:35:12 GMT

In <ig70uB2w165w@surya.UUCP> root@surya.UUCP (Root Account) writes:

>Whoa.  Since when should a crown tourney have a higher level of calibration?
>If they are hitting too hard, too hard is too hard, period. Striveing to 
>injure some one is not acceptable fighting, especially in crown.

	I had no intention of advocating higher calibration for tourneys
or any lists for that matter.  On the contrary, I was advocating lower
calibrations for practice.  My assumption is that it is not necessary to
go "all out" or otherwise do more than have fun and practice that new
combination shot at fighter practice.  My apologies if that was unclear.

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<  "This isn't an answer, it's a pagan dance around a midnight fire  >
<   written in intellectual runes." -- Rich Young                    >
From: dgreen@athena (David Greenebaum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: HELP! name searching.
Date: 19 Dec 1992 20:04:04 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: athena.berkeley.edu

Greetings to all from Bjalfi!

Cariadoc writes:
>I believe Egil is
>generally regarded as a historical figure (if not, the author of
>Egilsaga was a great poet as well as a great novelist), and Egilsaga,
>like the other family sagas, as a historical novel--fictionalized
>details but based on real history. So Kveldulf may have been--I would
>say probably was--a historical figure.

Your Grace, while it is true that the family sagas are a sort of historical
novel, some are (how shall I put it?) more historical than others.
In cases like Egil's (and Grettir's, to name another), though some of
the broader outlines surely did happen, the details are wholly unreliable.
In particular, the chapters dealing with Egil's ancestry are generally
considered wholly fictional.  Kveldulfr was in fact a very unsavory
character, associated with the worst kinds of magic; the "werewolf"
insinuation is definitely present there.  Suffice it to say that _I_
would never consider naming my child Kveldulfr.

---------------------  Bjalfi Thordharson/College of St. Katherine/Province of
 |\  | |\  |\  |// |       the Mists/Principality of the Mists/West Kingdom
 | > | |\\ | \ |/  |   David Greenebaum/University of California/Berkeley, CA
 |<  | | \ |   |   |   dgreen@athena.berkeley.edu, dgreen@garnet.berkeley.edu
 | > | |   |   |   |
 |/  | |   |   |   |   "I make mistakes, but I am on the side of good -- by
---------------------  accident and happenchance." -- the Golux
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heraldic Questions.....  Forwarded  Reply
Date: 15 Dec 92 10:46:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.724480915.AA00000

Gd>  Greetings from Godfrey!
Gd>
Gd>  The second, I suppose, is a matter of taste.  An example:  a friend
Gd>  of
Gd>  mine wanted a particular device, regardless of the fact that there
Gd>  was
Gd>  absolutely nothing period about it.  Naturally, it bounced, so --
Gd>  since
Gd>  no-one else can register it either -- he now flies his jarringly
Gd>  modern
Gd>  banner at events.  Okay, it's a nice design, but it's not mediaeval,
Gd>  nor
Gd>  can it ever be mistaken for such by anyone with even a passing
Gd>  knowledge
Gd>  of heraldry or period aesthetics.  IMHO, it DETRACTS from the
Gd>  atmosphere

I don't suppose, some dark night, that a torch might come a *teensy* bit too 
close?  ;-)

Of course it's more civilized to just bribe someone into making an identical 
banner and flying it, too. Better if you could get 10 identical banners. It 
would be messy for a while, but then he'd probably realize why we have the 
rules...

(And yeah, I think you've overstated Arval's case a good bit.)

Moreach
From: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Howard Stern
Date: 20 Dec 92 19:49:15 GMT
Reply-To: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Originator: cjdcosta@zepplin.ece.ncsu.edu


Don't know why I'm doing this.. Maybe in hopes of a change of scenery?
Anyway, the Howard Stern (sp?) issue appeared to merit a lot of time on
'Nightline' and even a mention on David Brinkley. If anyone has sides to
take or analyses to present, lets hear from you? We really need a new thread.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: simonich@croatia.eng.hou.compaq.com (Chris Simonich)
Subject: Re: The Cone Problem
Organization: Compaq Computer Corp.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:47:07 GMT

In article <01GSCOWY47SY9VW7ZP@ccfvx3.draper.com> skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum) writes:
>
>>From: Chris Simonich <simonich@croatia.eng.hou.compaq.com>
>>Message-ID: <1992Dec15.205302.9605@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com>
>>
>>In article <01GSCJ3DIWSY9VWJ1S@ccfvx3.draper.com> skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld
>> Hvatum) writes:
>>>
>>>>From: Chris Simonich <simonich@croatia.eng.hou.compaq.com>
>>>>Message-ID: <1992Dec10.192529.4392@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com>
>>>>
>>>>...
>>>>paint, the interior surface area must be "painted."  It follows that it
>>>>would be possible to paint the exterior surface with finite amount of paint.
>>>>It might take a while, but that's just a minor detail.....
>>>>
>>>>Do you agree or disagree?
>>>
>>>I agree.  If you can paint the interior all the way to infinity,
>>>the paint must be infinitely thin.
>>
>>Well, sort of.....but if the paint is infinitely thin, the volume required
>>to paint an infinite surface area is 0 liters....so you don't really need
>>any paint at all....sort of.
>
>That's what I had in mind.  But you have to be careful here - your
>statement is not generally true.  If you were painting a finite surface
>with an infinitely thin paint, then, yes, your statement would always be
>true.  But in this case, you're painting an infinite surface.  The
>convergence of infinity/infinity can be zero, finite, or infinite.  But
>you're right in this particular case.  In order to be able to paint the
>inside of the cone, the paint thickness has to vanish quickly enough
>when you go to infinity to make it thin enough to require no paint
>volume to cover the entire infinite surface.

Clearly.....

--
======================================================
Christopher Simonich        simonich@twisto.compaq.com
Compaq Computer Corp.       [713] 374-1898
======================================================
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Politics and Intelligence
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 16:20:33 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.151856.1@happy.colorado.edu> etbeteille@happy.colorado.edu writes:
>
>Please forgive if already covered . . . . 
>
>
>If it is generally true that the more "intelligent"
>among us (i.e. university professors, and other 
>alleged leaders of the mind) tend to be more liberal
>politically, would it follow that those who are
>considered extremely intelligent would naturally
>be libertarian?
>
>I would argue yes, that libertarianism, as expressed
>in American documents such as the Declaration of
>Independence and the Constitution as well as works
>by Thomas Jefferson, takes an acute mind to understand
>and appreciate without deteriorating into the old
>emotional arguments used by both liberals and conser-
>vatives when they are forcing the rest of us to do
>things.

You may have answered your own question.  Basically, you
will have to define your terms more completely to enable a
rational discussion.  "Liberal" can mean one who is open to
others' points of view, flexible, "fair-minded", etc..  "Liberal"
can also mean "not open to non-liberals' views", radical, oppresive,
naive, a destructive to established values, regardless of their
practicality.  Or anything in between.

Further, one of the tenets of "libertarianism" held by at least
some that I've met, is that taxation is unconstitutional.
You can debate the validity of that, but the fact is that at least
some libertarians feel this way.

One of the biggest ironies I see in the arguments of many
people is that they can simultaneously complain about
being "stereotyped" while pointing a finger at "those" people, naming
some group, such as Libertarians, Liberals, feminists, republicans,
union workers, etc., etc., as though the group were some monolithic,
featureless, single-minded, single-opinioned mass.

Also, in reference to the Constitution, bear in mind that as wonderful
as the words sound, and as non-PC as it may be to even hint that it could
be flawed, there are amendments that are made, and there is a group appointed
by government to interpret it on a case-by-case basis.  So definition of
terms and rational analysis of the implications of seemingly straight-
forward statements always have to be done.

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Subject: Re: Atheism and Intelligence
Originator: cjdcosta@zepplin.ece.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 03:58:46 GMT


Matt Ivaliotes (ivaliote@ux1) writes:
>franklin@ug.cs.dal.ca (Steve Franklin) writes:

>>>What we need is a new word to describe a person who doesn't care
>>>it there is a god and wouldn't worship one if it existed. I don't
>>>fear a possible existence of a god, I just don't care. My rather
>>>strong reaction of in-the-face fundamentalists is based solely in
>>>their desire to be in-my-face. Actually, Individualist may be the
>>>correct word!

>>[...]
>>   Are you aware how dangerous and vindictive your selfish and blind
>>mentality can be to our society? If you reject the hand that feeds you, how
>>[...]
>	You are right that the mentality you describe is destructive.  You are
>not right, in my view, in judging him to have that mentality.  He merely 
>rejects the Judeo-Christian (and some others) idea that God *wants* something
>from us, rather than being above what words we whisper at night.

Whoa, Matt. Firstly, the triple-quote is by Lynn Dobbs, who, unless I'm badly 
mistaken, is a 'her'. Secondly, what is touted above as a Judeo-Christian idea 
may be more accurately described as a misconception shared by far too many of 
the Judeo-Christian sects. Thirdly, I believe Lynn is entitled to her views
and whether she cares about her creator or not is her business. 

One little observation on the 'I don't fear, I don't care' aspect.. it's 
interesting to see how brave people can be when it comes to 'standing up to 
God'.. The idea that God could be intimidated to the point of wanting to hand 
down retribution (..yeah, like lightening bolts) to the little human daring to 
stick it's tongue out at Him is absurd. It's far more likely that He would be 
amused at these poor mortal pretensions. The worst thing that could happen to 
Lynn would be something like her getting a food dehydrator instead of a Mink 
Coat for Christmas :-) Who said God can't play practical jokes? 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_____________
From: burt@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (Burt Voorhees)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Atheism and Intelligence
Date: 12 Dec 92 01:48:23 GMT
 <burt.724008928@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca> <hayesstw.141.724055529@risc1.unisa.a

>Much to my surprise, I have been asked for the reference that asserts the
>inverse relationship between intelligence and religion.  It is
>
>"Intelligence and Opinion: An Arrow of Truth"
>published in July 1987 by Britrelan
>                          PO Box 1489
>                          Point Roberts, WA 98281

>I'd be surprised if you could still get the two small volumes at this late
>date, but in the bibliography there is a reference to a survey work that
>investigated 43 studies done on the religion/intelligence correlation since 19
27.
>The same inverse relationship was apparently found in all but four cases.  Thi
s
>reference, I'm sure, is available in many libraries:
>Beckwith, spring 1986
>"The Effect of Intelligence on Religious Faith"
>Free Inquiry, vol. 6, no. 2, p. 46

The problem with studies like this is that
there is no reason to believe that they would be culturally
invariant.  Recall that the past couple of centuries
have seen a division between science and religion,
with most of the cultural juice going to science
which has been seen as the "natural" arena for a
bright buy (or, now, gal) looking to make his/her
way in the world.  If similar studies were carried
out in the 13th century they probably would have showed
a different relation, one not so exaggerated.
I would suggest that the prime determinant of any
relation between intelligence and lack of religious
faith, once cultural influences are stripped away,
is the suceptibility of intelligent people to
intellectual hubris.
Then again, one has to ask what kind of faith?
In her book Secret Oral Teachings of Tibetian Monestaries
(or a title closely approximating that) Alexandra David-Neel
quotes a lama as saying that there were three kinds of people:
those who could be taught nothing, only conditioned; those
who could be taught a few things if it was done in the
appropriate way; and those one did not need to teach--
one simply said, look at that from this perspective and
they saw what was there to see.  There is no reason to
expect everybody to have the same kind of faith, or
lack of faith.  A problem in the west is that we are only now
emerging from under the tyranny of the Christian religion
(not so long ago one could get killed in very messy ways
for questioning dogma...) and alternative forms have not
yet really evolved for people who have an interest in
spiritual questions, but can't swallow popular forms of
religious expression and belief.
bv
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Hi there! -- posted for a friend
Date: 10 Dec 92 22:17:07 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <Byyp0D.1z7@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> griffidc@c-17igp.wpafb.af.mil (Civ D. Colleen Griffith) writes:

}... I
}believe in God, but somehow I don't think she/he/it is a long-haired blond
}with blue eyes and white robes and sandals. ...

Given Jesus' ethnicity and culture, it seems far more likely he had short,
dark hair, dark eyes and wore a carpenter's apron.

As for his purported father, if such an entity exists, it can take on
whatever appearance it likes, being omnipotent by definition.

Magic of Christmas?  I dunno.  Try watching a few "It's a Wonderful Life"
re-runs (I particularly like the Tiny-Toons version).  Better yet, turn
off the TV, invite a few friends to visit and enjoy each others' company
for a while.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                Do not meddle in the affairs of
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483  dragons, for you are crunchy
Santa Monica, CA  90405                        and go well with ketchup.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa