From: chuck@cygnus.eid.anl.gov (Charles Cilek)
Subject: Re: Belle's Character (was Re: Sanitizing
Reply-To: chuck@cygnus.eid.anl.gov
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory, Argonne, Illinois
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:56:19 GMT

Since my last response was ignored, I'll respond again.

In article 12019@news2.cis.umn.edu, avatar@wings.micro.umn.edu (Timothy Fay) writes:
> Andy G Ihnatko (andyi@world.std.com) wrote:
> >
> >First, unlike most Disney heroines up to that point, she makes it
> >abundantly clear that she wants nothing to do with marriage...
> 
> Which is, of course, why she goes ahead and marries the Beast at the end
> of the film (but only _after_ he's turned into Arnold Schwarzenegger :) ).

Are you implying that Belle fell in love with the Beast only after he turned
back into the prince? I recall Belle saying "I love you" to the Beast, and also
telling the townsfolk that the Beast wasn't dangerous but in fact her friend.
Also, she doesn't immediately fall for the prince, but looks into his eyes
(i.e. the window of the soul) to be sure that the prince and the Beast are the
same person.  
I would also like to quibble on Belle's alleged hatred of marriage.  She doesn't
want Gaston (but then who would?), but in the reprise before the horse returns
she does sing "But for once it would be grand / To have some understand..."
Belle only states 1) that there is no one in town that she could really talk to, 
and 2) she only ridicules the thought of marriage to Gaston.

> >Second, when her dad is captured, she goes out to find
> >him and when she does, even though she's been told to get out of there as fast
> >as possible, she sacrifices herself to save him.
> 
> Yes, but my point was that she found herself in this unfortunate situation
> as a result of her father's bungling and not as a result of her own actions.
> It would have been different if, for example, Belle had decided to stay with
> the Beast of her own volition, and not because of some threat to her father.
> 
Belle *did* stay of her own volition.  She could have left and rallied the
townsfolk to storm the castle.  The Beast could have taken them both prisoner.
I think the major disagreement here is in terms of what makes a character "great."  
I think that a great character is one who turns the situation to the best reasonable
outcome through his or her own abilities.  

Perhaps if you could provide your definiton or a list of characters you consider
to be great we could get past this point.
> >[Belle] stands up to angry mob, later enters a known battle zone.
> 
> Yes, and I recall the angry mob immediately locks her and her father up,
> where she's little more than your typical "damsel in distress" until
> she's rescued, not by her own intellect or abilities, but by an underage
> teacup.
Yes, the only point in the movie where Belle *appears* to be in "damsel in distress"
mode.  I suppose that you concede the point that getting locked in the cellar
was not a character fault of Belle and her father, but more a function that
there were 20 plus townspeople outside whipped into a Beast-killing frenzy by Gaston.
Give Belle and her father the benefit of the doubt.  I think that they would have
escaped soon anyway, but Chip saving them provided 1) a bit of comic relief, 
and 2) they were rescued because Belle's father's machine *did* work.

> Contrast that with other Disney cartoons, even a recent one like THE
> GREAT MOUSE DETECTIVE.  When Basil was captured by Ratigan he had to rely
> on his intellect (with a little prodding from Dawson) to make his escape.
> No one came to his rescue--he rescued himself.

Didn't see GMD, but you say Basil escaped.  Doesn't that mean that he was reacting
to the event of being captured?

> >At every turn, Belle (like Beauty in the original tale) makes her decisions
> >based on her own instincts and conclusions rather than on what's expected or
> >demanded of her.
> 
> But the situations she was in were created by other characters, and not
> by her own will or actions.  As I said earlier, Belle reacts to events,
> she does not create them, and that is not the hallmark of a "strong"
> character. 

Please give some examples of what you consider to be "strong" characters, and
what events they created.

> >Hell, the reprise of "Belle" proves this beyond a shadow of a doubt...
> 
> How?
"I want so much more than they have planned..."





Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney