HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rgopu@cs.tamu.edu (Rangarathnam Gopu)
Subject: Re: World Culture and Western Culture
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 01:24:35 GMT

In article <JMC.92Sep29124216@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
>I think I can agree with all that Brijnandan S. Dehiya posts.  I didn't
>know that the British ban on sati was instigated by Indian reformers.
>I didn't even realize there were Indian reformers so early.
>
	18th century is early???? Hey we are talking Indian history here. :-)

>Let me return to the original questions.
>
>1. Is there a world culture today?
>
	Dont think so, far too much diversity. There are IMHO certain
	aspects of culture that are global - to a great degree at least.
	Among these would be Hollywood and Bollywood movies, Coke,
	clashes between tradition and liberalism / modernity, the
	mix of religion and politics, and interest in certain major
	sports and a growing awareness of the environment's importance.

>2. Is it substantially based on European culture?  The non-European

	I doubt that there is something that can be called European
	culture that could distinguish itself from say, Latin American
	and North American culture (no comments on their diversity). 

>influences on European culture are secondary to this question.
>Benevolence or greed or lack thereof also have nothing to do with it.
>
>3. Assuming there is pretty much of a world culture, what are the
>exceptions to its prevalence in various countries, e.g. India, that
>seem destined to survive?
>
	India should be viewed more as a threat to other cultures than
	as a possible victim, IMHO. Till the 16th century at least, the
	impact of Indian culture was tremendous in most of Asia. Today,
	India is feeling the impact of a Westernized elite and
	extreme urbanization, but still there is so much to "Indian
	culture" and it is still so prevalent, that I doubt very much any
	major damage in the near or long term future.

	One thing must be noted. Culture is pretty dynamic. It keeps
	evolving, borrowing and adapting all the time. Closed minds
	can harm a culture more than any external influences, which actually
	just add a few more facets to what's already there. Regionalism
	and xenophobia are more to be feared than globalization.

>The reason for raising these questions is the American debate about
>basing required college courses on "western civilization".
				     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
				     beautiful oxymoron. ;-)
>John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305

Gopu
--
rgopu@cs.tamu.edu			ParukkuLE nalla naadu
Texas A&M University			EngaL Baaratha naadu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: (Balasundaram)
Subject: what's really meens ca driving?
Keywords: piece
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 11:44:55 GMT

peace
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana)
Subject: Re: World Culture and Western Culture/ British Misuse Of Sati.
Organization: Penn State Computer Science
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 14:41:28 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.200618.17245@cs.ucla.edu> panwar@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Ramesh Panwar) writes:
>In article <JMC.92Oct2185645@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> John McCarthy writes:
>
>>The winners choose the names.
>
>Johnny, thank you for your candor. The naked fascism that you
>espouse now is so much easier to handle than your previous
(stuff deteled)
>--Ramesh 
>

On a finer note, I am particularly disturbed by some of the thoughts
on technology and civilization that prof. Jhon McCarthy expresses.
The notes that prof. McCarthy distributed on the net gives the 
impression that technology defines culture and that technological
endevours make civilizations, per se. 

Coming as he is from a discipline, called artificial intelligence,
which seeks to convert the world into one of robonoids, this strand
of vision lacks a fundamental understanding of what humans view
as culture and civilization. From times immemorial, human endevour
has been the most accliamed value in our societies. Fortunately
this value system still exists in spite of the advent of
computing and the enormous change in the life styles brought
about by the mass production regimes of the industrial revolution. 

For example, if prof. McCarthy goes to the Sravana Belogola temple
and sees for himslef the main stautue, he would be astounded that
a sculptor could have acquired such enormous skills and mastery
of that field to give the world a masterpiece in sculpture. True!
Prof. McCarthy might say that he can design a machine that chisles
out similar granite form and to more perfection! But the value
system still endears the human act of sculpting the work. 

Perfection achieved through individual efforts has been the
corner stone in the recording of the human civilization.
Prof. McCarthy seeks to address this in a different vain
and establish a new value system in the society! Whether
such a value system carries credit is questionable.
Politically, some of the rhetoric of prof. McCarthy
has similarites with those that have been advocated
by Prof. William Schockley! 

When humna endevours are considered the hallmark of 
the civilization, there is no such thing as western
civilization or oriental. It is a mosaic of the
mankind's attempts to enrich themselves in spite of
their diversities. That is the reason why in schools
across America achivement must be taught on a human
level so that children are not hoodwinked to beleiving
in the robonoid societies.

...kt
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
From: ghouse@gauss.cs.jhu.edu (Mujtaba Ghouse)
Subject: Re: Islam and Science (was Re: Islam & Rushdie -- Icarus.)
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:37:32 GMT

<THS1@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>    For instance, Bucaille shows that
>    Quran is consistent with modern astronomy. What he fails to mention
>    is that Quranic descriptions are also consistent with geocentric,
>    Ptolemaic astronomy. Thus it is that Arab astronomers, with Quran
>    by their side, were unable to hit upon the Copernican framework.

While muslim astronomers do not seem to have hit upon Kepler's theory
(elliptical orbits around the sun) they *did* consider a circular 
sol-centric system (which was the Copernican framework), but rejected it 
due to its inaccurate predictions of stellar motion.

Let me quote Marshall Hodgson, who was a professor of history at the
University of Chicago, until his death in 1968, from his magnum opus
"The Venture of Islam", volume 2, page 168, 2nd paragraph:

"... It was even suggested that the earth moved around the sun.  But this
latter theory could not be supported by observations of the fixed stars
during the earth's yearly course ... so long as circular orbits were
presupposed; much as was Copernicus' theory later, it was rather an
attempt at a more beautiful schematism than at a more exact rendering of
facts, and was rejected."

In other words, they did come up with the Copernican framework,
and for the same reasons that Western scholars later did so (namely, the
inelegance of the epicycles used in Ptolemaic astronomy).

I doubt that this will cause *you* to reconsider your preconceived ideas, 
even though the above shows that you are incorrect.

I wonder why I bother, sometimes.

>T.H.Sanyal.

-Mujtaba Ghouse
"Somewhere else, the tea is getting cold."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: angrish@chocktaw.cis.ohio-state.edu (yogesh angrish)
Subject: Re: SOME DOKI JOKES
Keywords: jokes
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 00:13:07 GMT

In article <23477@optima.cs.arizona.edu> lal@cs.arizona.edu (The Morning Sun) writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.213816.5138@cis.ohio-state.edu> angrish@ganymede.cis.ohio-state.edu (yogesh angrish) writes:
>>
>>What is worse than a Doki and a couple of chamchas on the net?
>>
>>people who're kidding.
>>
>>P.S. Do you think I'm kidding?
>
>What is worse than people who are kidding?
>
>People who ask questions about things to which only they themselves know the answers.
>
>Thanks.
 ^^^^^^
>     

You're welcome!


Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:32682 soc.history:8708
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.history
Subject: Re: World Culture and Western Culture
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:55:48 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Sep29.191755.1559@hellgate.utah.edu>, speterse%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (soren--Ms. Jackson if you're nasty) writes:
> In article <JMC.92Sep27173436@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
# #	7. Of course, the West has contributed its share of bad ideas
# #and regrettable cultural phenomena.  These include Marxism, various
# #forms of racism, Fascism, the balance of nature, Heavy Metal and
# #multiculturalism.
# 
# #	The multiculturalism idea, that all cultural traditions are
# #equally valuable is today being overcome at great cost in the former
# #colonial countries.  Arbitrarily trying to invent alternatives to
# #democracy and capitalism are just as unlikely to succeed as trying to
# #invent alternatives to the airplane.
# 
# I don't think anyone in the third world is claiming that "all cultural
# traditions are equally valuable".  I see a lot of people claiming
# that their OWN traditions are superior to Western traditions (a perfectly
# understandable reaction in many cases), or that one particular western 
# tradition is superior to another.
# 
# soren f petersen           :        i AM NOT          :    --Doc

Actually, the claim "all cultural traditions are equally valuable"
is a moderate form of multiculturalism, largely espoused by people
in the First World.  The rabid form of multiculturalism (which
runs the university I attend) claims that "all cultural traditions
are equally valuable, except for the West's which is racist,
sexist, homophobic, ageist, classist, specieist, insensitive,
intolerant, capitalist exploiters of Mother Earth, and therefore
grossly inferior."  My impression is that Stanford has only a slightly
less rabid form of this nonsense floating about.

"Hey, hey, ho, ho, Western Civ has got to go!" -- Jesse Jackson at
Stanford


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Bush: War on Drugs, tax cut->bigger deficit.  Clinton: War on Drugs, spending
increase->bigger deficit.  What a great choice.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:33060 soc.culture.usa:7633 alt.slack:2495
From: rpwhite@ac13.cs.nps.navy.mil (rpwhite)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.usa,alt.slack
Subject: Re: FBI-seized cars ---- worth buying ?
Keywords: Sale, Used cars, FBI, US.
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:45:28 GMT
Followup-To: alt.slack,misc.test
Distribution: usa
Organization: Monterey Bay Yacht Club, Monterey CA

sgs@ucs.usl.edu (Sudhindranath SG) writes:

|I have come across ads here in which the advertiser offers to
|sell "FBI/US seized cars" at very low prices (sometimes
|starting at $ 25 (yes, $ 25 !)). I am sure at least some
|of you would have seen similar ads.

|In this context, I would like to know the answers to the 
|following questions :

|1. Is there any "catch" in such offers ?

|2. Is there any other kind of difficulty (apart from 
|   the usual maintenance problems) in buying such cars ? (like
|   being charged for some old traffic violations etc. ?).

|3. Is it worth considering such deals at all ? What are 
|   the reasons (if any) for and against going in for
|   such deals ?

These are usually fine automobiles in excellent mechanical condition. The only 
catch in this offer is that they are asking way too much, by about $5.00
I'd say.

So why deal with these overcharging louts. Just send me $19.75  and
I'll send you your very own FBI seized automobile. Be sure to include
the $.25 FCC modem tax on INTERNET sales for a grand total of $20.00.

- Or you can kill me.
From: ramamurt@strauss.cs.unc.edu (Srikanth Ramamurthy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Islam and Science (was Re: Islam & Rushdie -- Icarus.)
Date: 30 Sep 92 00:55:21 GMT
	<15667@borg.cs.unc.edu> <1992Sep28.203707.21186@cs.yale.edu>
Organization: UNC-Chapel Hill, Chapel Hill, NC 27599
In-reply-to: ahmed-shakil@CS.YALE.EDU's message of 28 Sep 92 20:37:07 GMT

>   >     					^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   >     Truly. The bigotry, hatred, sexism and segregation preached by
>   >     it would make Jesse Helms look like Jerry Garcia. It is a unique 
>   >     book nonetheless. 

>   Please furnish quotes to support your allegations.  

I'll start when you start supporting your claims with some quotes.

>   >     and maybe show that killing a few actors
>   >     for acting in a play which shows Quran in a bad light is a very 
>   >     entertaining scheme (Even though the killing was done only because of 
>   >     some really bad acting).

>   You might want to try being honest with yourself before you get
>   insulting on the net.

>   -- Shakil

So why don't you start furnishing some references from the Quran which
support the big bang thoery before you start pontificating as usual.
Your charade of skipping questions you can't answer and jumping to a different
topic instead is getting to be tiresome. And I know better than insulting
someone like you.

Unless you come back with some answers to the questions I had posed to you,
I wouldn't care if your next topic was on "methods of oiling ones nether-cheeks
before finding a horse in heat".

-Srikanth
From: hansm@madmats.esd.sgi.com (Madhsudan Hans)
Subject: Re: Sikh/khalsa net
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:20:32 GMT

In article <22721@galaxy.ucr.edu>, studmffn@watnxt12.ucr.edu (Arvin Taneja)
writes:
|> 
|> 
|> I was wondering if anybody has any information on how to join the Sikh
|> or  
|> Khalsa net. Thanks.
|> 
|> 
|> Arvind Singh
|> 
|> (@studmffn.watserv.ucr.edu)



Yep, please let me know as well ...


******************************************************************
Madhsudan Singh Hans			Tel: 415-390-2123
Silicon Graphics Computer Systems	Fax: 415-390-6159	 
2011 N. Shoreline Blvd, M/S 1L-945,	Email:
Mountain View, CA 94039			hansm@esd.sgi.com
******************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: uds@wsu-eng.eng.wayne.edu (Seetamraju Udaybhaskar)
Subject: ........  Internet connection to vaikunta .........????  (Anyone ?)
Reply-To: uds@wsu-eng.eng.wayne.edu (Seetamraju Udaybhaskar)
Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit
Distribution:  world
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:55:35 GMT


Does someone know how to email to our dear jagannaatha ?

If no one knows, I guess I will have to contact PTL.  ( BTW, does PTL
ministries have an internet connection ?  Or am I forced to use snail-mail
a.k.a. surface mail ? )


Here's my complete email that came back saying ``host unknown''.....



From Mailer-Daemon@hub Tue Sep 15 17:59:57 1992
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
   ----- Transcript of session follows -----

550 <god@vaikuntha.com>... Host unknown

   ----- Unsent message follows -----
<edited>
Message-Id: <9209152159.AA01523@ece7.NIS.ece7>
To: god@vaikuntha.com
Subject: Hello my dear vishnu....!!


dear maha vishnu,

How are you.  How is your fault-tolerant(FT)-spouse doing?  I request that you
send me details about her constitution/structure.  I will duplicate that
in english and submit it as a thesis.  Later when I make FT computers, I shall
pay you royalty for copyrights.

Ofcourse, before I make computers, I shall
make myself also, a fault-tolerant wife, who will also press my legs, and what
not, non-stop.  You have my word that you and me will be the only buggers in
this whole wide three-worlds, to have FT wives.  (that means someone can make
FT husbands -- maybe sonia@SCI might be interested).

There is a lot of sorrow , unemployment and single-women in this world right
now.  What are you doing about it.  If you doing something.  STOP IMM.  Things
cant be better for me.  It makes my job of hunting for a job & ***** much
much easier.  How about reshceduling your 10th avatar, till I am dead?  I still
cant figure out why you have this periodic urges to do good.  My uncle is a
psychiatrist.  Wanna have him help you ?

On second thoughts I think, you might just descend to eradicate all these
scoundrels here, who are against multiple-wives.  Who else but you could teach
these guys a lesson or two about the mukti that accompanies over-sized harems.

BTW, (Hope you know the usenet lingo!), how is my boss, the maheswara, doing.
Is he currently busy with ganga or with parvathi ?   Dont disturb brahma -- he
must be busy with his daughter--he might curse me and you for `disturbing them'
just as he did to some gandharva...

I am sorry to start emailing you, but raveena and madhuri are taking turns to
see who will ring up a bigger phone bill, and this has me totally
wasted (financially I mean).  So no more STD calls, pal.  Its gotta be plain
UDP or UUCP.

I shall withhold further vishaya_alu till I am sure of getting hold of you
over the internet.

yours buddily,
Seetamraju Uday Bhaskar Sarma.
(Hey, Vis ! Call me SUBS).

(and Bossu, here's my email address... : : seetam @ ece7 . eng . wayne . edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.history
From: speterse%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (soren--Ms. Jackson if you're nasty)
Subject: Re: World Culture and Western Culture
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:17:55 MDT
Organization: The Erland Cult

In article <JMC.92Sep27173436@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:

>	7. Of course, the West has contributed its share of bad ideas
>and regrettable cultural phenomena.  These include Marxism, various
>forms of racism, Fascism, the balance of nature, Heavy Metal and
>multiculturalism.

Chuck Smythe, I see, has just beat me to it, but I too am interested
in hearing Prof. McCarthy explain just what makes the concept of the
balance of nature such a bad idea.  

As I understand it, the basic idea (roughly, that disturbing predator/
prey relationships can have potentially catastrophic effects on the
environment) is completely noncontroversial and completely accepted
by working biologists.  (If any biologists are reading this, I'd
welcome comments and corrections)

I recognize that the concept is sometimes misused for political
reasons, and I also recognize that Prof. McCarthy almost certainly
feels profound antipathy for many of the people who espouse it.
That does not, however, make the concept "bad."


>	The multiculturalism idea, that all cultural traditions are
>equally valuable is today being overcome at great cost in the former
>colonial countries.  Arbitrarily trying to invent alternatives to
>democracy and capitalism are just as unlikely to succeed as trying to
>invent alternatives to the airplane.

I don't think anyone in the third world is claiming that "all cultural
traditions are equally valuable".  I see a lot of people claiming
that their OWN traditions are superior to Western traditions (a perfectly
understandable reaction in many cases), or that one particular western 
tradition is superior to another.

--
    "From your signature it is obvious that you are a homosexual"
soren f petersen           :        i AM NOT          :    --Doc
speterse@peruvian.utah.edu :  THE university OF utah  :
"How could I dance with another/When I saw him standing there"  --Tiffany
From: sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (Sivaram Hariharan )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: SOME BABY JOKES
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:29:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.20791
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

Absolutely Sick and totally tasteless. I hope the persons who
started these jokes on babies think about their own babies
or baby siblings or their neices or nephews.

Totally Disgusted
Sivaram
From: fb78@sol.acs.unt.edu (Ganesh Gopalakrishnan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Plane crash, about 160 died
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:15:05 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas

It was a PIA airbus aircraft. CBS news mentioned "tricky Kathmandu
airport". A Thai airways plane crashed sometime in July or August
near that place. My heartfelt condolences to bereaved families.
- ganesh
From: sdoki@maxine.wpi.edu (Suresh Doki)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: OCTOBER 2
Date: 2 Oct 1992 05:12:16 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: maxine.wpi.edu


>OCTOBER 2 - A DAY NOT TO FORGET
>-------------------------------
>Birthday of the "Father of India" Mohandas Karamchand GANDHI
>Death anniversary of "Karmaveerar, Perum thalaivar (Great Leader)"
>N.KAMARAJ
>Cheers,
>V R Kumar


hey once is more than enuff. and also have you heard of AARAA?

well it stands for American Association of Redundancy Association of
America. btw it really exists.


suresh


ps: no offense intended to you. just kidding!!

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: bipin@iastate.edu (Bipin K Dalmia)
Subject: do blank VHS videotapes work with PAL cam/vcr??
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 05:00:14 GMT

hi
  does anyone know if blank VHS videotapes bought in the US would work
in india with a PAL camcorder or VCR for recording??

an e-mail answer will be most appreciated

thanx.....bip
-- 
bipin k. dalmia               the other night i was lying on my bed, looking
bipin@iastate.edu             up at the beautiful stars, and i said to myself, 
n2.bkd@isumvs.iastate.edu     'where the F*CK is my ROOF !!'
--
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:32294 rec.music.indian.misc:2612 rec.music.indian.classical:1689
From: mgj@franklin.ee.umr.edu (Mahesh Govind Joshi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,rec.music.indian.misc,rec.music.indian.classical
Subject: Looking for room-mate in the Bay area !!
Date: 27 Sep 92 23:01:39 GMT
Reply-To: mgj@ee.umr.edu (Mahesh Govind Joshi)
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla
Originator: mgj@ee.umr.edu

Hi,

I am looking for a roommate/s in the Bay area preferably near
Marine County, San Francisco, Richmond and nearby. I will be
working in Corte Madera and any place about 30 mins drive from
Corte Madera would be acceptable.


Thanks a lot in advance !!

Mahesh Joshi.
________________________________________________________________________
Mahesh Joshi 			|   Bura duniya ko hai kehta
Help Desk Consultant		|   Aisa bhola to na ban 
Snail Mail:- 1300 N. Oak Street	|   Jo hai karta,woh hai bharta	
#17, Rolla MO 65401.		|   Hai yahan ka hai chalan
Voice:(314)341-8197.		|   Takdeer nahi chalnegi yahan
Email : mgj@ee.umr.edu		|	---- Majrooh Sultanpuri---- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------