HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Koeran Pop Music (Re: Rapping on Korean pop/rock)
Date: 16 Dec 92 03:32:54 GMT
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.

On my argument: music predictability having to do with the quality of the
music.

In article <1992Dec15.235723.8934@news.acns.nwu.edu> andrew@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Andrew Sung Hyun Kim) writes:
>Well James, if above is the case, the most interesting music should be
>something by Schonberg, Berg and similar style composers.  Try to
              ^^^^^^^^^

Well, I was listening to him on my way back today.  Still wondering what is
so pleasing about his music.  I learned about his techniques.  But it is
yet to please me.  So, I agree with your point there.  Then again, we are
talking two extremes.
 
>predict their musical sequence...  and boy they don't even have
>key structure per se, which makes their style even more intriguing.

And confusing and leaves me wandering aimlessly until the piece is over....  

>Personally, a good song once heard should be singable.

This is your favorite problem; semantics. :)  Songs should be singable.  No
doubt about that.  But should not be trivial to the point that one song's
accompaniment can be used for another song without any modifications
because the tempo, chord progression was identical.  And you bet there
wasn't a single diminished chord in it.

[...]
>If it sounds good, it is good enough for me...

Agreed.  I was just trying to point out WHY Korean songs did NOT sound
good.  I have a nasty habit of attempting to produce some objective
evidence or supporting facts for my vague feelings.  All this music
mechanics was a feable attempt at that.  But it suffices to say that "I
think they suck."

>Andrew Sung Hyun Kim

James Choi
From: jhshin@cc.gatech.edu ()
Subject: after the election : DJ's retirement
Reply-To: jhshin@cc.gatech.edu ()
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 01:14:17 GMT


at the time of 92/12/19 09:04 in KST

 no. of the voted : 24,102,005     rate   :  81.9 %
 no. of the opened: 23,017,871     rate   :  95.6 %

                       invalid : 307,244(  1.3%)

 candidate        order   no.     percent            

 Kim, Young-Sam      1  9,596,082  41.7 =====================
 Kim, Dae-Joong      2  7,640,340  33.2 =================
 Jeong, Choo-Young   3  3,678,021  16.0 ========
 Park, Chan-Jong     4  1,448,418   6.3 ===
 Lee, Byung-Ho       7     35,598   0.2 
 Kim, Ok-Sun         6     83,579   0.4 
 Paek, Ki-Wan        5    228,589   1.0 =


--------------------------------------------------
Both YS and DJ had an interview in TV. DJ said he would accept the 
result of the election humbly and resign the lawmaker, back to the ordinary
member of the party, implying the retirement from the politics.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: tchoi@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: O.K.
Reply-To: tchoi@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:59:33 GMT

Well, we, Democrats, seem to be defeated by TV-debatephobia YS.
But let's cheer up, I think this election showed that 
the future of Democratic party is bright.
There are many good possible post-DJs in Democratic party. 
So why don't we work harder now and fight again in 1997?

Cheers for the baby Korean Democracy!
From: hnkst2+@pitt.edu (Hanhwe N Kim)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Orange-jok
Date: 14 Dec 92 14:12:26 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

shin@krusty.ee.udel.edu (Jeong-Gyun Shin) writes:
>>>>thought that Su Taeji group is quite talented: I never liked rap until
>
>ALso, let's cut this elitism out and introduce who/what is Su Taeji?  New
>culinary feat it can't be, so?  

Elitism? Who me? I'll admit to snobbishness and arrogance but knowing
who Suh Taeji is surely not elitism. Suh Taeji is the lead singer of 
"Suh Taeji and kids"(STak) which is a very popular group in Korea who 
probably was the first to put a rap style song on the top of the charts. 
There were others doing rap style music before STak but I think theirs 
is the most popular.
BTW(By The Way .. lest I get accused of elitism again.. :-) 
                                                        ^^^ a 'smiley'
... this is getting out of hand...  BTW, you don't seem to be in a
good mood these days Mr. Jeong-Gyun Shin.

-Hanhwe Kim
)
From: shin@krusty.ee.udel.edu (Jeong-Gyun Shin)
Subject: Re: Orange-jok
Organization: University of Delaware
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 10:22:42 GMT

>>>thought that Su Taeji group is quite talented: I never liked rap until

ALso, let's cut this elitism out and introduce who/what is Su Taeji?  New
culinary feat it can't be, so?  No wonder I have to use wee hours of early 
morning (in order to avoid acusation of load network with these frivolous 
questions) to see what's going on in s.c.k.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: jgl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew T. Kim)
Subject: Monthly Pop Song (Magazine)
Reply-To: jgl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew T. Kim)
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: soc.culture.korean
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:58:14 GMT


Recent reference to Rush, Zeppelin and Old Genesis reminded me of days when
I was *really* into the hard stuff.  Now I listen to virtually anything,
but when I was in highschool, I was pretty into Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Black
Sabbath and stuff.  I remember I roamed around Kwang Hwa Moon, I Tae Won
and Se Woon Arcade area looking for Bootlegs or Originals from PX.  

And there was this magazine, Monthly Pop Song ("Wol Gan Pop Song") that I
bought every month.  As I remember it was pretty comprehensive and covered
some unusual stuff.  It was small magazine, about size of your highschool
textbook, not many pictures, but some good, sincere articles.  There was
something family like about it.  After it became full size magazine with
fancier color pictures, I didn't buy them anymore.  It just wasn't the
same. 

I don't know how good that magazine really was.  Anyway, it was a part of
my life then, and a part of my pleasant memories...  

Does anyone else remember them?

Andy Kim

PS. Whatever happened to Rush, BTW?  Are they still performing?  I haven't
    heard them in ages.  I think the last one I bought was "Moving
    Pictures".  Whoa...That's almost 10 years ago...
From: vincek@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Vincent Kim)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Recommendation for traditional Korean musi
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:51:35 GMT
Reply-To: vincek@oakhill.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Semiconductor Products Sector


	What kind??

	There are many variety of traditional musics..

	Chang-ga, Pan-so-ri, san-jo, pung-ag, etc..
From: kimy@cs.umd.edu (Yong-Mi Kim)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Rapping on Korean pop/rock
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:44:29 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <102065@netnews.upenn.edu> hseung@retina.anatomy.upenn.edu (Roland H. Seung) writes:
>New Order obsesses me, and I'm glad their lyrics are nothing like
>yours.  Too bad Korean government has banned them,


Does the government still ban songs by certain foreign bands?
And what exactly was the matter with New Order that they got banned?
(Is Joy Division banned, too?)

I too am one of those people who are extremely disappointed by Korean
pop/rock.  It's just not rock music, and it's pretty abysmal as pop
music.  Has anybody Korean ever hit the hit charts outside of Korea
and Japan?  Are there any Korean artists acknowledged worldwide, such
as Yellow Magic Orchestra or Ryuichi Sakamoto?  Come to think of it,
how come desginers like Issey Miyake or Yoji Yamamoto are regarded
as geniuses worldwide, and the best we've come up with so far is
Andre Kim? (gag)  I'm bringing up these Japanese examples because
they are also Asian and have managed to make a mark in the Western
world.

Another peeve: how come Peter Gabriel's Real World label hasn't
released anything from Asia so far?  Should we deluge their offices
with pansori and traditional Korean court music tapes?

Totally irrelevant aside: cd's undergoing heavy rotation at Chez
Kim - the Blue Nile _Hats_, Peter Gabriel _Us, the Beautiful South,
Annie Lennox _Diva_, Moby,  John Adams _The Chairman Dances_, Ute
Lemper, assorted Renaissance music.  There's lyrics, there's
artistry, there's musicianship, there are some good tunes, and
you can even dance to some of them.

Anyway, one thing I've noticed about Korean pop music is that you
can sing along to most of the stuff.  Most of what one hears on
rock or alternative music radio stations around here is not stuff
you can sing along to easily.  (When was the last time you sang
a Kate Bush song a capella and still managed to sound halfway
decent?)  So maybe the expectations on pop music are a bit different.
Complex arrangements or lengthy instrumental solos aren't exactly
requirements for campfire songs.



yong-mi
peevish
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi)
Subject: Re: Rapping on Korean pop/rock
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:18:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.195458.17304@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> kim_nl@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Nina L Kim) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.191334.12426@tc.cornell.edu> jfe@alchemy.tn.cornell.edu (Brian Chung) writes:
>
>>And finally, let's go and kill all the lyricists.  I like listening
>>to songs with more artistic and poetic lyrics, like Peter Gabriel,
>>old Genesis and Rush. 
>
>Yes, no band has soul like Grateful Dead.
>(God bless Jerry)

It will be very difficult to top Rush when it comes to lyrics or music (in
terms of skills as well as composition.  Try playing one, and you will
see.)  If any Korean lyricist can produce something half as decent as Neil
Peart's (of Rush), I am buying it right away.  For those who are not
familiar with Rush, Neil Peart has written any love songs since "Madrigal"
over 12 years ago.

James Choi
From: wjin@cs.uh.edu (W. Woody Jin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Re: DJ for President -- 2
Date: 14 Dec 1992 22:56:50 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodin.cs.uh.edu

In article <1992Dec14.193638.2546@news.columbia.edu> jgl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew T. Kim) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.164039.13721@sbcs.sunysb.edu> swkim@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu () writes:
>>
>>I am also sick and tired that everybody tries to just find fault with
>>the other's remark. (to hang down while holding the tale of horse.)

I would rather say that they try to express different opinions rather than
finding fault in other peoples' statement.  Please consider my statements
as another opinion rather than picking up the faults in your statement.

>
>Boy, talking about the paranoid reaction.

Right. I don't know why poeple would not respect other poeple's opinions
and just becomes very angry when other people's opinions are different
from theirs.  
I say something here, I don't think that I say THE TRUTH which everyone
should agree with.  I don't think that everyone else always says such 
truth either.

It seems to me that Koreans tend to like Black/White Logic.
In previous articles which was posted by someone,  I even saw a ridiculous
statement, like "two wrongs do not make right...".

>.... tired of someone who does not check his fact before
>posting, ignores other's attempt to find out the fact and just whine about
>instead of admitting it, defending it, or even ignoring it.
>  ......
>You own your post, but you don't own its follow-up.

Very good point and remarks.
Thanks.

>Andy Kim


-- 
____   ____  ____ ____________________________________ (___) _________________
|  |   |  |  |  |  W. Woody Jin (wjin@cs.uh.edu)       (o o)      Moo.... 
|  |   |  |__|  |  PhD Student. Research Asst.  o=======\ /  I'm  a Cow Lover.
|  |   |        |  Dept. of Computer Science   / |     ||O   My wife  was born
\  |---|  |--|  |  University of Houston      `  ||'---||    in Cow year. Mooo
 \____/|__|  |__| _______________________________^^    ^^_____________________


Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: kim@magneto.physics.auburn.edu (Han-jung Kim)
Subject: Re: Who wins ?
Message-I.d.: <1992Dec18.160400.6093@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>
Organization: Auburn University, Auburn, AL
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:20:08 GMT

 In article <1992Dec18.160400.6093@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> parkin@elm.egr.msu.edu (In Sik -) writes:
>The expecting  results from MBC NEWS, but not final results, yet. 
>
>YS KIM : Near 42 %
>DJ KIM : Near 37 %
>JY Chung : less than 20 %
>
>More than 95 % for DJ, less than 5% for YS in HONAM area; 70 ~ 75 % for YS , 
>10~15 % for DJ in YOUNGNAM area. Further news will be soon.
>
>Above expectation is not assured, anything can be changed.

With 47% of vote opened, the gap between DJ and YS seems to become bigger and
bigger.

So I do not have any hope that DJ can win.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: jfe@alchemy.tn.cornell.edu (Brian Chung)
Subject: Rapping on Korean pop/rock
Organization: Alchemy International
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:13:34 GMT

Okay, so it was a bad pun.  But serious, I'm just going to gripe on
Korean music in general.  (not on traditional music, just the modern
ones)  First, I HATE bbong-jjak.  The lyrics are incurably sappy and
depressing and that music just drive me sick, especially if it's played
on a synthesizer/organ only.  This is the kind of music one listens to
if one finds Barry Manilow too intellectual.

Secondly, what's wrong with all the singers who don't write their own
music and who can't afford their own back-up band?  Yeah, yeah, I know,
it's just the way that Korean music industry is built.  But for once,
I'd like to hear bands playing.  Where did Songgolmae go?  

And finally, let's go and kill all the lyricists.  I like listening
to songs with more artistic and poetic lyrics, like Peter Gabriel,
old Genesis and Rush.  Can anyone in Korea write lyrics that can
stand on their own as art?  I mean take a look at most of these
words.  Boy meets girl, girl either doesn't care about the boy or
they are so in love it's like eating a cake with 3 inches of sugar
coating, girl/boy leaves for some reason...  All that's missing
is the last part, girl/boy kills her/himself after listening to
bbong-jjak for two hours straight.  Yeah, I can take my own share
of romantic songs, but fer cryin' out loud, can the lyricists do
anything else?

Now that I'm done griping on Korean music, I'm off to take yet
another final.  Oh, by the way, is there anyone in Korea who's willing
to give me a telnet access so that I can log on to my account here
from Korea? 

Brian "stressed out" Chung

-- 
T. H. Brian Chung                      | Happiness is...              
Internet: jfe@alchemy.tn.cornell.edu   | "Tea, Earl Grey, hot."
Bitnet: jfe@cornella                   | 210 Lake St. Apt. 11-A 
DECnet: CESR10::THC                    | Ithaca, NY 14850  Tel: 607-272-1543
From: mj03@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (MINHO JO)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: ^^^^^^     R E S U L T S   of   T H E    P O L L       ^^^^^^^^^^
Date: 18 Dec 92 17:15:34 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University



Thanks a lot about your cooporation. A total of 21 persons joined
the poll. The results of the poll are:



              Candidates         # of Votes      % of Shares
              --------------     ----------      -----------
              Dae-Jung Kim       15              71.4
              Young-Sam Kim      4               19.0
              Ju-Yung Chung      2               9.5



COMMENTS:

The majority of Korean students and researchers in America (at least,
according to the above respondents), are in favor of DJ.
Most of them presumably, are younger generation in their 20th and 30th.

It must be so interesting to compare the results here to the ones
from the young generation in Korea.

However,  I will hold final conclusions until I receive more votes
from you.  More votes will give more reliable results.  And so, you
are URGED to cast a vote.  Consider this to be compensation for loss
of absentees' voting right for Koreans abroad.

THIS POLL WILL BE EXTENDED until DEC. 18, 5:00 p.m. in EASTERN TIME.

The results of the poll will be announced at 6:00 p.m. in eatern tim.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


                   Minho Jo, Lehigh University
                   Computer Integrated Manufacturing
                   Dept. of Industrial Engineering
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: andrew@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Andrew Sung Hyun Kim)
Subject: Re: Percussion and rap (was: Re: Orange-jok (MilGam-jok ?))
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 02:30:01 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.010403.21331@news.acns.nwu.edu> phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.155200.20481@news.columbia.edu> jgl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew T. Kim) writes:
>>Yeah, Bonham!!! Long Live Zeppelin!!!
>
>Yeah, LED ZEPPLIN!!!!  My hero!

Weren't Led Zepplin bunch of plagerist, who used the melody composed
by some AfAm blue artist?  I recall hearing about this upon passing
of the AfAm singer this summer.  Anyone heard this?

>James Choi

Andrew/S/H/Kim

Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: swkim@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu ()
Subject: About Korean Rap of Su Tae Ji
Originator: swkim@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:19:43 GMT

Subject: About Korean Rap of Su Tae Ji


I have nothing to say about Orange Jok.  I just want to discuss about
Korean Rap at the aspect of pop columnist.

I read some article about them from the magazine.  I remember the funny
story from it.  An 40 year old gentlemen said after he had listen to
Su Tae Ji's rap, " Is this music? This is the noise for psycho!!!"
But I want to say this, " Is this RAP ???? This is just a children's song."

If they would like to copy the American Pop-song or Rap, they should copy 
it exactly.  Their music is insufficiency of beat, monotonous rhythm, and
low energy.  Let's examine American Rap.  The American Rap is 16 beat 
rhythm without many exception (ChiKiChiKiChiKiChiKiChiKiChiKiChiKiChiKi).
So the music is very fast, dynamic and exciting basically.  However let's
listen to Tae Ji's sound......(Chi--Ki---Chi--Ki---Chi--Ki---Chi--Ki---
Chi--Ki---Chi--Ki---Chi--Ki---Chi--Ki).  Listen for yourself carefully.
Because of the expensive modern synthesizer which be purchased from foreign
country, their music looks ultramodern and progressive.  But their basic
music form did not escape from the 70's korean music.  To be shortly 
speaking, their music is the 70's korean song which is played by 90's
instrument-too slow and monotonous rhythm, groovy kind of melody, and 
typical words.  

But what can I say more about the fact that everybody likes their music ?
If everybody likes that music, that is good music even though I think 
whatever about it.  The korean rap should be suitable for korean mind, not
for internation standard.  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: jgl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew T. Kim)
Subject: Re: Koeran Pop Music (Re: Rapping on Korean pop/rock)
Reply-To: jgl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew T. Kim)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:33:36 GMT

In article <BzDMxr.6Ix@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> ylee@norton.uwaterloo.ca (Yuri Lee) writes:

>There isn't a fair comparision between US pop songs and Korean ones. I do not
>think Korean Ga-Yo songs are lower quality than US'. Up until I gratduated
>from 
>highschool, I'd never listened to Korean Ga-Yo songs but only western
>rock, pop, heavymetal songs. I thought all Korean songs suck but my view
>has changed  
>since then and right now I hardly listen to American songs although I live in
>North America. There are a lot of talented young song writers in Korea and the
>number is growing, and there are a lot of enjoyable good songs too. I don't
>know how knowledgable you are in music area but I'm fairly better than most
>people in musical senses. IMOH, Korean Ga-Yo songs are high quality songs
>as far as native Koreans are concerned and there's no question about it.
>If you 
>don't like Korean songs, that's fine with me. However, I can't stand people
>accusing Korean Ga-Yo songs for not having quality compare to US songs, which
>is untrue.

I think what they are really trying to say was (But then again, this is
just my opinion) not about the quality of the individual songs but of the
music industry.  There are always some good songs and bad songs, and it's
really up to the individual's taste.  Furthermore, you can't really compare
individual Korean songs to American songs individually.  They are really
apples and oranges.  We can, however, safely say that Korean music industry
sucks because it does not provide us with enough variety so that people
with different taste can all enjoy.  

Korea probably has the BEST Gayo in the world.  That doesn't say much.

>>'predictable' in style and melody, this is why I consider group such
>>as HaBaRaGi a second rate performer, all their songs sounds about the
>>same.  Anyway, since I probably offended few people... time to go
>>on a Christmas vacation...
>
>I'm not particularly fond of HaBaRaGi or their music but I don't think they
>were second rate performer. They made good songs for Korean people and they

Actually, I like them.  I have seen their live concert, and they are very
dynamic bunch.  I also like;

"Uh Ddeon Nal"	- Music is not that exciting, but very polished.  Along the
		  lines of George Winston or William Ackerman
"ShinChon Blues" - Korea's best attempt at Blues.  I like their energy and
		   diversity of different members.

The problem with these guys are that they are better performers or singers
than song writers.  So after a couple of refreshing and promising albums,
their music tend to fall into the mannerism.

I still think "San Ul Lim" was one of the few truly revolutionary groups.

>
>- Yuri Lee
>

Andy Kim



Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: gsen@twins.goldstar.co.kr
Subject: Re: WHAT is "THE POKTAN SEOUN (BOMB ANNOUNCEMENT)" ?
Organization: GoldStar Co.,LTD. Consumer Electronic Research LAB. Seoul, Korea.
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 23:57:42 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.194933.128788@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, mj03@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (MINHO JO) writes:
> 
> Hello Friends:
> 
>     Chu-yung Jung has promised to announce a shocking secret (called
> "POKTAN SEONUN" in the Yeoido gathering recently.
> 
>     If anyone knows about that,  let us know too.  Please post it.
> 
> 
>              Minho Jo, Lehigh Valley

Many people thought Chung would disclose the list of politicians who were
given his secret money before, but he only said that Lee Jong-chan, another
candidate from New Korea Party, would pull out of the presidential race
declaring support for Chung himself.  

---------------------============-----------------------
Hee-won Seo
gsen@twins.goldstar.co.kr
From: andrew@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Andrew Sung Hyun Kim)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Orange-jok
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:05:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Dec14.180507.13429
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.

In article <1992Dec14.152654.19042@news.columbia.edu> jgl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew T. Kim) writes:
>Very rightfully so.  However, if we are looking for an answer, we will have
>to look beyond this orange-jok stuff.  Doing anything against these
>orange-jok will be merely superficial.  How about starting to work on
>providing the alternatives to these kids?
 ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^
Peace corp, or how about volunteering to teach/help out in these
southern islands?  Or volunteer service at orphanages, hospital,
leper colony, etc....

>Andy Kim

Andrew Sung Hyun Kim