HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: What do listing agents do???
Date: 20 Dec 92 17:30:46 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The College On The Other Side Of Route One

In article <1992Dec18.214812.14466@venice.sedd.trw.com> tjio@venice.sedd.trw.com (Lee Tjio) writes:
=While I could see the "added value" of using a realtor to find a home, I
=still fail to see the need to have a listing agent.  All they do is
=to spend 30 min to figure out what the seller's asking $$ and desires
=are,

After spending considerably more time than that doing a "market value
analysis" that attempts to predict the range of offers that the seller
is likely to get! The seller's desires are not completely germane, as
most folks do not have any idea what their home may bring on the open
market, and not good realtor wants a listing that won't sell.

=to spend 10 min to fill out the form to go to MLS, and to put
=up a sign that is more like an advertisement for themselves.  After all 
=that, they sit on their butt waiting for offers. And they get 3% of the
=sale price????

The agent gets 1.5% of the sell price. The agent's broker gets the
"other" 1.5%.

=OR do I just happen to use a "bad" realtor.  What would 
=a good listing agent do?

Advertises your property in a variety of media (local newspapers,
"Homes For Living" magazines", cable TV, etc.), paying the costs out of
his/her pocket.

Arranges for other REs to visit the property ("broker's open house"),
again, expenses paid out of pocket.

Keeps an ear out for changing market prices, feedback from people who
visit the property and don't make an offer, etc.

I have heard that 75% of the listing agent's work occurs after a
contract has been signed, simply because of the number of things that
can go wrong.
From: drb@druhi.ATT.COM (BurrittD)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: REALTORS ARE WORTH EVERY PENNY AND MORE
Date: 14 Dec 92 15:44:33 GMT

in article <Bz5qqv.L1D@mccc.edu>, pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg) says:
> 
> In article <22779@drutx.ATT.COM> drb@druhi.ATT.COM (BurrittD) writes:
> =Sorry, I just couldn't resist on this one.
> =
> =Let me tell you a true story.
> =
> =I live in Denver and a few years ago I owned a townhouse.
> =
> =To make a long story short I listed it myself (for sale by
> =owner). Sold it in about 3 months.
> =
> =Maybe there are some good realtors out there but
> =I think they are in the minority.
> =
> =-- Dave Burritt
> 
> Now, here we have a truly scientific mind at work. The man takes data
Thank you for the compliment

> from one "experiment" (and not a controlled one, at that) and publishes
> his rare success. I say "rare" because if it had been easy to sell that
> townhouse, none of the REs out there would have turned it down.
> 
Actually it was two experiments. The first one was selling the
townhouse without a realtor. The second one was buying a house without
a realtor and saving and additional 3 percent. You may be right in your
statement that is was a rare event. The point I was trying to make
was that realtors only want to list your property if they can sell
it with out doing much work. The one's I talked to were not willing
to spend any effort trying to sell it (for 6.5% I do not think
it is unreasonable for them to spend some effort, do you?) 
(I better but my flame proof suit on now :-))

I also have numerous other stories on how realtors tried to manipulate
me (and people I know). But then again those would not be controlled
experiments. By the way, WHAT IS A CONTROLLED EXPERIMENT WHEN IT COMES
TO REAL-ESTATE AGENTS???? The only way I can think of doing one is
to have 1 property be sold by 100 realators and then sold by 100
owners. All of this would have to be done on the same propoerty
at the same point in time. Pete, how could this be done?????

> And then he extrapolates his "data" to the entire USA (or perhaps even
> th world)!
> 
Chill out Pete, all I am doing is trying to help other people on the net
and give them some ideas on how they may be able to save themselves a 
few bucks. What are you afraid of, people trying to do it on their own
and succeeding???

Sounds to me like you are a part time (full time??) realtor or have someone
who is very close to you that is.

> Atta boy, Dave.

Thank you

Dave Burritt

Xref: sparky misc.invest.real-estate:1090 misc.invest:14947 misc.forsale:33512
From: bobk@sequent.com (Bob Krull)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate,misc.invest,misc.int.property,misc.forsale
Subject: Re: 1031 exchange
Date: 15 Dec 92 16:47:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Dec15.164753.2672
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Dec15.010708.20159@indetech.com> chuckn@indetech.com (Chuck Niedle) writes:
>
>I am interested in making either a 1031 tax deferred
>exchange, lease with option to buy or an outright sale of a
>well kept single family dwelling located in a very nice
>area of San Diego(Encinitas) California. It has 1950 sq ft
>of living space with 3 bedrooms and a den, 2 bathrooms; the
>kitchen has been recently remodeled. For full details
>contact my representative in San Diego:
>
>		Galina Briskin
>		(619) 481 2245
>
>I will consider all serious offers and am not limiting
>myself to only another single family dwelling or the great
>state of California; so let my agent know what you have to
>trade.
>
>I am new to the exchange game and would appreciate any
>pointers that the more experienced of you might have to
>offer; any pros or cons, things to avoid, ...
>
>you can reach me via email at
>
>		chuckn@indetech.com
>
>		or
>
>                {sun,pacbell,uunet}!indetech!chuckn

Chuck,

A 1031 exchange does not usually involve a direct swap of property.
You sell yours and buy something else within a specified period of
time.  Many restrictions apply.  If your curent agent doesn't understand
1031 exchanges *in detail*, find one that does, or get other professional
advice.

-Bob
bobk@sequent.com
From: tanner@bcsaic.boeing.com (Jim Tanner)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: Negotiating a lower commission after an offer
Date: 17 Dec 92 00:24:32 GMT
Distribution: misc
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle

In article <1992Dec15.170517.7813@pbhyb.PacBell.COM> ajcueva@pbhyb.PacBell.COM (Al Cuevas) writes:
>In article <22850@drutx.ATT.COM>, drb@druhi.ATT.COM (BurrittD) writes:
>> Has anyone out there ever tried to get a realtor to lower
>> his/her commision after an offer was submitted (below asking price)
>> on a house.
>> 
>> since I am losing 5 K on the deal it seems only fair that
>> you only get 3.5% instead of 7%. This assumes the person who
>> made the offer is not working with a different realtor.
>> 
>"SEEMS ONLY FAIR????"  
>
>Tell us DAVE... Does your employer ask you to give up 50% of your
>salary when they miss their estimated income by 5%???

Not quite the same.  Typically a listing contract states that the agent
earns the commission by delivering a full-price buyer.  In this case
the agent has not done so, thus effectively reopening the listing
contract negotiations.  Now, one can still argue over how much
commission is fair, and a $5k low offer is still pretty close to the
asking price, but in listing contracts closeness doesn't count.

In a similar situation we counteroffered to split the difference, the
buyers counter-counteroffered a little bit higher than their original
offer, and when we told our agent we would hold firm, he volunteered to
throw in some commission ($1.5k) to get the deal to go through.  I
admit that our statement of holding firm when we were only $1.5k apart
was an attempt to get the agent to reduce his commission (the house had
only been listed for a week and a half), and it sort of made sense that
the buyer, the agent, and I all contributed something to closing the
$5k gap.  If the agent had refused I probably would have taken the
buyer's last offer.  (It would have been stupid to lose a quick sale in
a relatively slow market over that last $1.5k.)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Subject: Re: Negotiating a lower commission after an
Organization: The College On The Other Side Of Route One
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 17:40:00 GMT

In article <82Fk02T92fCY01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> jpr30@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Jay P Robinson) writes:

First of all, this is a *Buyers* market. Expect to get less than the
asking price!

	That's true in any market where there is price negotiation.
	
Second, realtors know what your property will probably sell for - ask
for their honest opinion and then ask for a net sheet.

	A listing RE does a "market value analysis" for the seller. My wife
	says that the language is "You can expect to recieve offers between
	$xxxxx and $yyyyy for your house. I think that you should ask $zzzzz.
	How do you feel?"
	
A net sheet
shows you how much you will net after all the selling costs (escrow,
title, realtor fees, etc) are deducted. The net amount should be within
a couple hundred dollars of what you will actually receive.

	A good listing RE will provide that information without asking.
	
Actually, you need to do three net sheets:
- Your asking price  
- A reasonable selling price that meets your financial requirements
- Your rock-bottom price

If you cannot live with any of these numbers, you have no business
putting your house on the market

	I'd put a period there. Any time a person sells something, s/he
	must make some tough decisions, one of which is, "What's the
	least amount I can afford to sell this for?".
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: alexg@austin.ibm.com ()
Subject: Re: REALTORS ARE WORTH EVERY PENNY AND MORE
Originator: alexg@madrid.austin.ibm.com
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 16:03:37 GMT
Reply-To: alexg@austin.ibm.com
Organization: IBM Austin


I feel, some of them are worth every penny and more, and others aren't.
As in every other profession some excell, most do just mediocre or
sometimes really bad.

We had listed 3 residential lots with realtor. The listing agent worked
for an agency plus he was a new homes salesman for several large builders
in our area.

Our consideration was clear. When a buyer comes to look at a new home,
(s)he likes a home but does not like location, our agent would point out 
to our lots.

Lots were listed for about 4 months, we have'not got a single offer, not even
a low ball one. And this is in the market with a tremendous amount of new 
homes being built and sold every month.

Listing expired, we put our own signs on the lots and nearby intersection.
Sold all of them within a month.

The other example, we bought a four-plex and were represented by a broker
whom we asked not to do anything on the transaction but present our offer
to purchase (this was what we wanted). We did everything from locating the
property, writing the offer, negotiating with Seller, finding and following 
up with financing, inspections, title company, etc.

The listing agent (representing Seller) was most helpful and professional
without any requests. He called us many times asking if we needed anything,
helped through the tensions on the transaction. The closing date was pushed away
three times upon our request, delaying closing by about 2 months (we had
to use two mortgage companies, it took a lot of time). He helped a bank
appraiser who could not come up with enough sales comparables to get to 
the right property value for the mortgage. When some agreed repairs have not
been performed by Seller on time he made it smooth too to fix it.

If we ever decided to use an agent to represent us on a sale we would most 
certainly come to him.

So, for those who elect to hire a realtor, perhaps it's a necessaty to
interview a prospect very carefully, asking to present a solid sales plan
with the variety of options in case original assumptions don't work. 
Or/and better yet get referrals.

- Alex Gurevich    alexg@austin.ibm.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: chet@spock.retix.com (Chet Mazur)
Subject: Re: Property Insurance, Do you mix personal and investment together??
Organization: Retix, Santa Monica
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:08:07 GMT

I would get a separate policy from the same company to get the
multi-dwelling discount if possible... blanket or umbrella policies
that I have seen offer combind limits of say a 1000K and not 1000k per
property...
--

Chet Mazur (chet-mazur@retix.com)
Lambda Consulting
-- 

Chet Mazur (chet-mazur@retix.com)
Lambda Consulting
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: ajcueva@pbhyb.PacBell.COM (Al Cuevas)
Subject: Re: Negotiating a lower commission after an offer
Organization: Pacific * Bell
Distribution: misc
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:05:17 GMT
Summary: give us your $$$$$s

In article <22850@drutx.ATT.COM>, drb@druhi.ATT.COM (BurrittD) writes:
> Has anyone out there ever tried to get a realtor to lower
> his/her commision after an offer was submitted (below asking price)
> on a house.
> 
> since I am losing 5 K on the deal it seems only fair that
> you only get 3.5% instead of 7%. This assumes the person who
> made the offer is not working with a different realtor.
> 
"SEEMS ONLY FAIR????"  

Tell us DAVE... Does your employer ask you to give up 50% of your
salary when they miss their estimated income by 5%???

Al Cuevas
Pac Bell
510-823-1498
From: pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: REALTORS ARE WORTH EVERY PENNY AND MORE
Date: 20 Dec 92 17:37:10 GMT
Organization: The College On The Other Side Of Route One

In article <BzIKM1.1Jqu@austin.ibm.com> alexg@austin.ibm.com writes:
=
=I feel, some of them are worth every penny and more, and others aren't.
=As in every other profession some excell, most do just mediocre or
=sometimes really bad.
=
=We had listed 3 residential lots with realtor. The listing agent worked
=for an agency plus he was a new homes salesman for several large builders
=in our area.
=
=Our consideration was clear. When a buyer comes to look at a new home,
=(s)he likes a home but does not like location, our agent would point out 
=to our lots.
=
=Lots were listed for about 4 months, we have'not got a single offer, not even
=a low ball one. And this is in the market with a tremendous amount of new 
=homes being built and sold every month.
=
=Listing expired, we put our own signs on the lots and nearby intersection.
=Sold all of them within a month.

Two questions: what were the actual selling prices compared to what you
were asking through the RE, and to what do you attribute his/her failure
and your success?
From: heycke@sumex-aim.stanford.edu (Torsten Heycke)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Bought or sold via this group?
Followup-To: misc.invest.real-estate
Date: 11 Dec 1992 23:18:28 GMT
Organization: Center for Advanced Medical Informatics at Stanford
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ksl-mac-66.stanford.edu

I'm curious if anyone here has either bought a house listed in this group
or successfully sold a house through this group. Yes, I'm new to the group
(OK, I've lurked before). Yes, I'm contemplating selling my house (in Palo
Alto, CA). 

"A horse may walk to water, but a pencil must be led."
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: ac999155@umbc5.umbc.edu (ac999155)
Subject: ***Pre-Qualify for a New home in Maryland Now!***
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 02:08:12 GMT

Pre Qualify for a New home Now!

call David Pak/realtor

1-800-879-6683
.
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: bobk@sequent.com (Bob Krull)
Subject: Re: Sale By Owner: What Info for Buyer?
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 23:57:19 GMT

In article <heycke-111292152957@ksl-mac-66.stanford.edu> heycke@sumex-aim.stanford.edu (Torsten Heycke) writes:
>If I were to try to sell my house by myself (with hired attorney), what
>kind of info would a buyer (such as you land sharks out in netland) want to
>know? I haven't read the plethora of books on "For Sale by Owner," but I
>suspect that since this readership is ostensibly self-selected (you're
>interested in real-estate) you might have some particularly good
>insights--maybe better than the books. A whole bunch of questions come to
>mind:
>
>Would a list of "comps" collected by an owner be useful for the buyer or
>would the buyer be inherently skeptical of everything that the owner had to
>offer (or both; I guess they're not mutually exclusive answers)?

I personally dont care much about your comps, thank you very much, unless
it's a list of recent actual sell prices gleaned from county records.

>
>Would a buyer be interested in a pre-existing, independent property
>assessment arranged by the buyer? Or would a buyer again be inherently
>skeptical of such an assessment (if the seller hires an assessor, is the
>assessor independent?)?
>
Financing will likely require an appraisal (the tax assesor will do his
own thing ;-[), so why bother?

>Relatedly, I suppose, is the question: Assuming a mutually agreed-upon
>assessment of value is arrived at, should the seller then "lop" off 3% (or
>more or less?) of the price in order to give the buyer credit for one-half
>of the commission that didn't happen. In other words, should both buyer and
>seller benefit munificently from the absence of a real estate agent/broker?
>If so, what ratio is appropriate?
>
>If the house is advertised as "sold as is" would that discourage the buyer?
>Let's say that the house isn't a dump, but the buyer is tired of putting
>time and money into the thing. Is it a mistake to use the "sold as is"
>label?
>
I personally *love* distressed property almost as much as I love distressed
owners ;-) ;-).
From: adam@sw.stratus.com (Mark Adam)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: Insurance solicitations
Date: 16 Dec 1992 22:36:23 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: paix.sw.stratus.com

In article <1992Dec11.213331.15969@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>, stevet@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (stephen.e.turpin) writes:
> In some cases, the mortgage company OWNS the insurance company.
> I believe Countrywide Mortgage is one example.
> 
> Steve Turpin
> AT&T Bell Labs

citicorp does also, and boy are they stupid. their insipid forms _require_ you to
return it in order to refuse. after returning 5 of them, and then calling
theatening legal action i think i may have finally stopped them. at least i hope
i did.

if you hate junk mail and you're thinking of using citicorp. think twice.

-- 

mark ----------------------------
(adam@paix.sw.stratus.com)	|	My opinions are not those of Stratus.
				|	Hell! I don`t even agree with myself!

	"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers that smell bad."
From: pcs$1703@altair.selu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Real-Estate Groups
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:06:34 -0600
Organization: Southeastern Louisiana University

Is there any other news groups around that discuss real-estate or
creative financing ?

	Thanks
From: ajg@controls.ccd.harris.com (Arnold Goldberg)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: Real-Estate Groups
Date: 16 Dec 92 22:40:47 GMT
Organization: Harris Controls and Compositions

>>>>> On 16 Dec 92 14:06:34 -0600, pcs$1703@altair.selu.edu said:

pcs> Is there any other news groups around that discuss real-estate or
pcs> creative financing ?

Nope, this is pretty much it...

There are a lot of knowledgable people on here, so ask away




--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arnold Goldberg                            Email:  ajg@ccd.harris.com
Phone: (407)242-5051                       Snail:  Harris Controls
Fax  : (407)242-4262                               407 John Rodes Blvd.
                                                   Melbourne, FL 32905
The opinions expressed are my own and do not in any way represent Harris 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: jpr30@ccc.amdahl.com (Jay P Robinson)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: Negotiating a lower commission after an
Date: 18 Dec 92 18:52:08 GMT
Reply-To: jpr30@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Jay P Robinson)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1glkgvINNjvg@seven-up.East.Sun.COM> jfox@hooksett.East.Sun.COM writes:
>In article 7813@pbhyb.PacBell.COM, ajcueva@pbhyb.PacBell.COM (Al Cuevas) writes:
>>In article <22850@drutx.ATT.COM>, drb@druhi.ATT.COM (BurrittD) writes:
>>> Has anyone out there ever tried to get a realtor to lower
>>> his/her commision after an offer was submitted (below asking price)
>>> on a house.
>>> 
>>> since I am losing 5 K on the deal it seems only fair that
>>> you only get 3.5% instead of 7%. This assumes the person who
>>> made the offer is not working with a different realtor.
>>> 
>>"SEEMS ONLY FAIR????"  
>>
>>Tell us DAVE... Does your employer ask you to give up 50% of your
>>salary when they miss their estimated income by 5%???
>>
>>Al Cuevas
>>Pac Bell
>>510-823-1498
>>
>
>
>If it meant not getting any salary, like what would happen to the broker
>if they sale didn't thru, I might be up to getting half. Certainly better
>than none!
>
>I'll admit half is a bit extreme to forgo, but it certainly shouldn't be
>considered unreasonable for a broker to be asked to drop a couple thou off
>their commission, if it means making a sale...
>
>
>
>John
>
>
>
>John

Sellers who want to play childish games of lets-burn-the-realtor-for-his-commision 
dont deserve the professional help of a realtor. Game playing is not necessary if 
you simply do your homework. On the other hand, a realtor should be experienced 
enough to short-circuit these games up front, before the listing agreement is signed.

First of all, this is a *Buyers* market. Expect to get less than the asking price!

Second, realtors know what your property will probably sell for - ask for their honest
opinion and then ask for a net sheet. A net sheet shows you how much you will net after
all the selling costs (escrow, title, realtor fees, etc) are deducted. The net amount should
be within a couple hundred dollars of what you will actually receive.
 Actually, you need to do three net sheets:

     - Your asking price  
     - A reasonable selling price that meets your financial requirements
     - Your rock-bottom price

If you cannot live with any of these numbers, you have no business putting your
 house on the market, and trying to screw the realtor, IMHO.
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate,misc.invest,misc.int.property,misc.forsale
From: chuckn@indetech.com (Chuck Niedle)
Subject: 1031 exchange
Organization: Independence Technologies, Inc. Fremont, CA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:07:08 GMT


I am interested in making either a 1031 tax deferred
exchange, lease with option to buy or an outright sale of a
well kept single family dwelling located in a very nice
area of San Diego(Encinitas) California. It has 1950 sq ft
of living space with 3 bedrooms and a den, 2 bathrooms; the
kitchen has been recently remodeled. For full details
contact my representative in San Diego:

		Galina Briskin
		(619) 481 2245

I will consider all serious offers and am not limiting
myself to only another single family dwelling or the great
state of California; so let my agent know what you have to
trade.

I am new to the exchange game and would appreciate any
pointers that the more experienced of you might have to
offer; any pros or cons, things to avoid, ...

you can reach me via email at

		chuckn@indetech.com

		or

                {sun,pacbell,uunet}!indetech!chuckn

thanks
Chuck Niedle

The usual disclaimers apply

Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Subject: Re: Negotiating a lower commission after an
Organization: The College On The Other Side Of Route One
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 22:37:20 GMT

In article <1glkgvINNjvg@seven-up.East.Sun.COM> jfox@hooksett.East.Sun.COM writes:
=I'll admit half is a bit extreme to forgo, but it certainly shouldn't be
=considered unreasonable for a broker to be asked to drop a couple thou off
=their commission, if it means making a sale...

The total commission on Dave's example was only $7000, split four ways.
Brokers never cut their pieces of the pie, leaving only $1750 for each
agent. No way to "drop a couple [of] thou" from $1750!!
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate