From: mcbean@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
Subject: Re: What A White Person Learned in College About AfAm Culture
Date: 5 Jan 93 17:59:08 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <168CE13556.DRPORTER@SUVM.SYR.EDU>, DRPORTER@SUVM.SYR.EDU (Brad Porter) writes:
> In article <1992Dec31.123451.25482@cas.org>
> cwm54@cas.org writes:
>  
>>
>>
>> [stuff deleted]
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Really?  That's sincere, not sarcastic.  I don't live in the real world,
>>>> I live in a town in NY with an African-America population of at most 10 out
>>>> of 3000.  Yet even while I've probably only know 5 or 6 African-Americans
>>>> personally, I don't think I have a deep-rooted hatred for any minority group.
>>>> At the same time, I'm not qualified to debate what the rest of society
>>>> believes.  I guess I have a hard time believing there is an underlying
>>>> prejudice against African-Americans throughout white society.  Prejudice
>>>> is a personal, not societal matter isn't it?  My fear however, is that
>>>> because of AA, I'm going to have an extremely difficult time finding a job -
>>>> much more difficult than a woman or minority will.  Don't get tripped up
>>>> by this question:  Is is worse for an African-American to be prejudice
>>>> against a white because his/her ancestors were slave-holders, or is it
>>>> worse for a white to be prejudiced against an African-American because
>>>> his/her ancestors were slaves?
>>>
>>>If it is so much more difficult for a white man to get a job why is it that
>>>unemployment among blacks is on average twice that among whites?  Get a clue.
>>>Are you concerned that African-Americans will be refused jobs because of
>>>discrimination?
>>>
>>>It amazes me how people act surprised that after generations of continuing
>>>discrimination that blacks would express a dislike for white people.  It's
>>>called human nature.  Not everybody subsribes to the dictum "Love those that
>>>despisefullly use you".
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    It truly is amazing. For anyone to think that a white man will
>>    have a more difficult time finding a job than an African-American
>>    even with AA (though in my opinion AA is very rarely practiced)
>>    indicates just how little whites know about conditions in america.
>>    Not only is it amazing but discouraging. Having read this newsgroup
>>    for a few months now, I'm sometimes left speechless. How do you
>>    debate people who begin with the premise that white men are the
>>    oppressed group in america? One would think that by this time
>>    in our history we would be argueing about how best to rid this
>>    country of its' race problems. Instead we(blacks) find ourselves
>>    trying to convince whites that the USA even *has* a problem.
>>
>>    Though I don't agree with separatist at this point, I can certainly
>>    understand their frustration.
>>
>>
>>                      Carlyle
>>
>>
>>          My views only. Not those of CAS.
> Both of you appear to have missed some very good responses to the question I
> posed.  As I've said, I haven't had to worry about AA so far, and from
> the responses, I won't have to in the future because of the way the system
> works.  Well, ok.  I believe the best qualified should get the job.  Racial
> or ethnic considerations needn't be a consideration.  Speaking for myself,
> as a white employer, I could objectively decide who's most qualified without
> any consideration of ethnic or racial characteristics.  If most whites couldn't
> be perfectly objective, then AA is a necessity.

In a perfect world the best qualified should get the job.  But when you have a
group of people who are consistently denied the opportunity to become the best
qualified based on the arbitrary criterion of race, how do you break the
vicious circle?  Few if any critics of AA on scaa seem to be interested in the
discriminatory aspects that AA negates.  Every time the major networks do an
investigation on discrimination against blacks in the workplace and everyday
life, they come up with the same conclusion, A significant number of white
people discriminate on racial grounds.

>     In response to how whites could feel there isn't a problem:
>       I don't see myself as prejudiced in the least, so the idea that the
>       rest of society (most of whom grow up with the same values I do) is
>       different is hard to believe - especially to believe that the rest of
>       society is extremely prejudiced is difficult.
>     In response to the idea that it is natural for blacks to hate those who
>     have so often used them:
>       One of us is living in the wrong century (and it may be me).  There is
>       NO justification for prejudice in any form.  If you believe blacks have
>       the right to be prejudiced towards whites, then how can you say that
>       white don't have the right to be prejudiced towards blacks?  "Get a
>       clue"?

See above paragraph for explanation.  A lot of whites would like to believe
that discrimination against blacks ended in 1865, another large proportion
would like to believe that it ended in the 1960s with the passage of the civil
rights bill.  Incidents like Howard Beack, fire-bombings in Canarsie and Long
Island, the Simi Valley verdict, along with many others, are a clear indication
of the existence of hatred of a significant number of whites towards blacks,
still.

I was merely pointing out that given the history and the continuing despicable
treatment that a lot of blacks get when they encounter whites, there should be
no surprise at the animosity.  We all need to rise above it, but not everyone
has the grace and forgiving attitude of MLK.  No I'm not living in the wrong
century.  If in 1990 I had posted that 4 white policemen would beat the shit
out of a black man, be captured on videotape doing it, and then be acquitted in
a court of law, I would have been labelled hysterical, sensationalist and out
of touch with reality.  Hatred spawns hatred my friend, not love.  What we all
need to do is to work to end this.


> It's highly unfortunate that many blacks are unemployed, but are either of
> you?

What is this supposed to mean?  I'm a student so I guess that qualifies me as
unemployed.  I suppose my job prospects would be better than average (hell they
should be after spending so much time of my life studying!).  But that does not
mean that I should turn a blind eye to the fact that others were not afforded
the same opportunities that I have.

I regard it as the duty of those who have breached the "glass ceiling" to work
on getting more people up there.  Would so many people be posting here if
Garvey, King and X had sat on their backsides content with their lot in life?


>                                  -Brad Porter
> DRPORTER@SUVM
>  


McBean
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.asian.american