From: kanamori@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori)
Subject: Re: BatMan Returns really shocked me
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 13:50:04 GMT

In article <2542@nlsun1.oracle.nl> gbradley@uks197.Berkeley.EDU (Gary Bradley) writes:
>
>   Well after a desperate wait I finally got to see Batman Returns last
>weekend. I liked the first film and am a big Batman fan, so was
>naturally enthusiastic to get to see the sequel. Did it live up to its
>successor? 

Lived up to it and surpassed it (which is what really shocked me, hence
I kept your subject line :-)



>   Finally Tim Burton has proven he no longer knows how to tell a story
>using cinema as medium (I had always suspected this after the totally
>forgettable - apart from Vince Price - Edward Scissorhands). 

I wouldn't go quite that far: it fell far short of being first-rate,
but it wasn't "forgettable." The imagery alone will keep it rattling
around in my mind for quite some time.

I will agree that Mr. Burton's ability to create eye-catching visuals
far exceeds his story-telling ability. I find the latter quite serviceable,
however; and his offbeat style becomes more and more appealing to me
every time I see one of his creations.

>I mean some
>people have said Batman returns had no plot...I say this turkey had NO
>NARRATIVE!! It was so disjointly related that it really annoyed and
>bored me. I mean the loose ends - count'em. The wondering where the hell
>we are now in the storyline and why people are acting the way the do

And you loved the *first* Batman movie?? IMO, the character's actions
in this movie were *far* better motivated than in the first movie.
I went in expecting a disjointed mess (with three major villains and all),
but I was surprised at how well it hung together.


>(Christopher Walken's character seemed to totally change every 5 minutes
>or so.

How? He's an unscrupulous, egotistical industrialist who maintains a 
shiny-apple Santa Claus image to manipulate people. Except for one scene, 
I saw nothing that contradicted that characterization.


> Why were the Gotham city public address scenes always attended by
>the same 50 or so people and AT NIGHT!!?? 

You mean, the P.A. scene where the clown grabs the Mayor's baby? The scene
where Batman replays Oswald's scenes back to the public? 

The two P.A. scenes that *did* occur at night were tree-lighting
ceremonies: it makes sense do to that in the dark. The effect
just wouldn't be the same under Gotham's bright daytime overcast.


>Even public gatherings in some
>remote Scottish villages I have visited have had a better turnout than
>that! 

I wonder if your remote Scottish villages had a demoralized and
intimated population like Gotham does. If public appearances meant
risking immolation by fire-juggling acrobats, your public-spiritedness
might be dampened too :-)


>God I could go on..and on..but I won't. 

By all means, continue (although it's doubtful you'll change my mind.)


>Only Danny DeVito was
>worth watching: Pfiffffeifier and Keaton were predicatable bores. 

I'd have to disagree: Keaton and Pfeiffer were the major attractions
for me (although Devito performed his role well too, his character
was simply the least interesting and most overexposed of the three. But 
that's a matter of taste.)



>The
>only unexpected event in this film was that Selina falling out a window
>turned her into a martial arts expert: that I did not expect!! BUT it
>was ludicrous anyway. Plah!

That *was* incredibly silly, yes.


>   And don't anyone dare say that this film is based on comics and so
>these fantasy elements are acceptable. No way. I read a lot of comics
>and no self-respecting comic would present its audience with this tripe.

It's not particularly relevant to me what comics (self-respecting or
otherwise) present their audiences. I'm talking about the movie here,
and a highly entertaining one it was.


>   All I can say is I now fell pity for Richard Rauser who got heavily
>flamed for his "Top 10 Things to do During Batman Returns" posting.

From what I saw, most of the flamings regarded not his opinions about
the movie, but (1) the repetitiveness of his postings and (2) his
calls for people like him to ACTIVELY PREVENT other people from enjoying
the film by engaging in obnoxious behavior in the theater.

The first point is relatively minor, the second point definitely calls
for a roasting (IMO.)

> I
>agree with your original post 100% Richard. Reading your top 10 was 200%
>more entertaining than Batman Returns. Geez Highlander 2 and the
>Lawnmower Man look superb compared to this film!! I urge anyone who
>hasn't seen it not to. 

Already have. Many times.