HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bzs@ussr.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Flat taxes
Organization: The World
	<1992Aug29.151020.25820@spdcc.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 00:35:28 GMT


From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
>	One place I'd embellish it (and I realize that this violates
>the no exemptions rule :-) is to scale it slightly under $15K/year.
>Say, 12% > $15K/year, 6% < 15K/year, 0% < 8K/year.  Now you could still 
>take out 12% and reimburse the (6%,12%) at the end of the year automatically.

I'd be against taking it out and giving it back later, it just sounds
like a scam. Besides, if they're poor they need the money when they're
paid, either you're doing this because they're poor or not.

I'd also eliminate the entire sham of "witholding" and just create a
business tax on employment that amounts to the same money collected
but eliminates the crazy amount of paperwork created in trying to
involve every individual in the tax system.

For example, I'd eliminate 99% of the 1040's for regular wage earners
with no other (significant) sources of income (e.g. let the first $xyz
of savings interest not count, whatever it takes to keep most people
from needing to fill out a 1040.)

Then I'd leave the reporting etc to the employer. If we want a few
adjustments (eg. for dependants) that could be handled by the employer
also in a bulk kind of way (even small businesses easily wash this
stuff through their paycheck services for around, oh,
$10/month/employee, it's really rather cheap when it's all fairly
regular and predictable.)

This is some taxes are handled currently relating to employment
(unemployment, employer FICA) so it's not exactly revolutionary.

Then when someone hires you for $XX,000 you can expect to receive
$XX,000/year, net (less health insurance or whatever.)

And we can stop this utter stupidity of ``Oh, we'll pay you $35K/year,
that'll be $24,141.59 unless you have kids or a dying rose bush in
your front yard in which case it will be...etc etc.

And 100+Million tax forms each April 15th.

Similar things can be done to accomodate other forms of income.

I'd also eliminate all property taxes on one primary domicile.

It's unbelievable how many people across the country get thrown out of
their house by their own government, particularly elderly people who
already paid the house off and now have their own govt as their
biggest enemy/threat (or, just as bad, remortgage the house to pay
their taxes, what a regressive idea! And god help them if they outlive
the remortgage.)

Taxes should reflect earnings.

--
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD
From: cmr@world.std.com (Charles M Richmond)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: Bearing Arms
Date: 25 Aug 92 19:27:41 GMT
Organization: Integrated International Systems Corp. One Longfellow Place, Suite 3309, Boston, Ma.


Actually the Seattle/Vancouver study  did a good job of proving that the
U.S. has some racial/underclass problems. It seems that if you equalize
the minority populations , that Seattle is no worse than Vancouver dispite
the more restrictive gun laws. As has been pointed out elsewhere the
violence has causes that are unrelated to gun ownership. Solve Seattle's
racial/educational/equal rights problems and the gun problem goes away.

Of course , it is much easier to put on a gun control bandaid than it is
to work on the underlying societal problems.

Charlie


Mind you , I do not have any problem with a standardised 48 hour waiting
period. I do have a problem with the government keeping lists of gun
owners. It sort of defeats the purpose of the 2nd amendment as the final
check and balance. We are a young republic, but there have been a number
of occasions when there were crisis that threatened the Constitution and
the Republic. FDR packing the Supreme Court, Nixon plotting a 3d (and more)
term, the Civil War, the Japanese detentions, the Gulf of Tonkin, Sen
McCarthy's anti-American hearings. Thank whatever force, God , or gods
that you wish, that none of these required the intervention of citizen
uprisings. (this is a much abreviated list... did you know that Mass.
seceded from the union at one point.)

-- 
*****************************************************************************
*  Charles Richmond 	Integrated International Systems Corporation        *
*  cmr@world.std.com	(Temporary) cmr@chiechan.mro4.dec.com		    *
*  Specializing in UNIX, X, Image Processing, and Communications.           *
Newsgroups: ne.politics
From: cmr@world.std.com (Charles M Richmond)
Subject: Re: Bearing arms: our first line of defense
Organization: Integrated International Systems Corp. One Longfellow Place, Suite 3309, Boston, Ma.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 22:20:09 GMT

bzs@ussr.std.com (Barry Shein) writes:


>From: lmh@world.std.com (Larry M Headlund)
>>Now if you want an example of a heterogeneous society (Four language groups)
>>with a lot of guns (assault rifles in the home via the militia) and a low
>>violent crime rate,  look at Switzerland.
>>	What does this mean?  That heterogeneous + guns != violent crime.

>It probably means they've been adjusting to that heterogenous mix for
>about 1,000 years.

>Obviously there's more to heterogeneity than mere heterogeneity.

>I suspect you need a heterogeneous population where some large group
>feels treated like an underclass.

>--
>        -Barry Shein

>Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
>Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Although it is a good example of guns =! violence....

Charlie

-- 
*****************************************************************************
*  Charles Richmond 	Integrated International Systems Corporation        *
*  cmr@world.std.com	(Temporary) cmr@chiechan.mro4.dec.com		    *
*  Specializing in UNIX, X, Image Processing, and Communications.           *
From: bzs@ussr.std.com (Barry Shein)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: Bearing arms: our first line of defense
Date: 3 Sep 92 01:14:56 GMT
	<DRG.92Sep1145232@bubba.ma30.bull.com>
	<1992Sep2.142532.25859@burrhus.harvard.edu>
Organization: The World


From: pfarrer@isr.harvard.edu (David M. Pfarrer)
>So how come Canada doesn't have a huge black market in illegal guns?
>Or any of the other western democracies for that matter?  They all
>have illegal drug traffic, but annual gunshot deaths can be measured
>in double digits vs. 25,000 + in the United States.  

Perhaps because their populations are a lot more homogeneous and the
problems lie elsewhere in heterogenous situations?

Look at Germany right now, start some strong immigration and wham-o,
problems. Not that that argues against immigration, just that it's not
as simple as you present.

In London, eg, the problem is plastique and other high explosives
(pemex?), not guns per se. I am sure it is illegal, however. Would you
say that the gunshot deaths in Northern Ireland are measured in
"double digits"?

>Guns are also a lot bulkier and sell for a lot less per ounce.

They sell for what is profitable given the costs of smuggling. The
illegal gun market, like most black markets, has an unusual method for
compensating for higher prices (i.e. crime.)


--
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD
From: murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: Voucher system for education
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 13:46:37 EDT
Reply-To: murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy)
Organization: The Business Card (BBS), Lawrence, MA - Data: 508-682-5329

adam@sparkle.uucp (Adam Shostack) writes:

> The Supreme court recently ruled that a prayer at graduation was a
> violation of this.  Whether or not you think this ruling was correct,
> the Supreme Court does provide the final interpretation of laws.

I don't think prayer has any place at a public gathering.  Period.  If you've
ever heard some of the bland "prayers" issued at one of these gatherings,
you'll quickly understand how meaningless they are.  Those aren't prayers,
those are just speeches.  The hell with that.  If someone feels the need to
pray, let them pray before the event.  This is one place (among several) that
I disagree with my Republican party.  Eh!

> So whether or not the "wall of seperation" is a modern contrivance or
> not, it is *law*, as interpreted by the SC.  Thus, using vouchers to
> pay for religous school would probably be construed as a violation of
> the Constitution by todays court.

"Probably."  Just a guess.  :-)  No, the government will not be setting up any
religion or supporting one over the other, simply giving (or not taking) the
money being spent from tax returns to the parents to buy the sort of education
they want.

Remember, there is _no_ Constitutional right to an education.

You went on to say how banks don't like to lend money to new businesses, such
as schools, in depressed areas.  So what?  So, those residents agree to spend
their tax dollars on public education.  Everyone's STILL happy!  :-)

                         Your friend in Lawrence, Massachusetts...
                                      - - - Murph

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
   The Business Card (BBS), Lawrence, Massachusetts - Data: (508) 682-5329
   SysAdmin:  murph@buscard.fidonet.org / ...!ulowell!wizvax!buscard!murph
From: murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: Sex ed in school (WHY JONNY CAN'T READ MUSIC)
Date: 25 Aug 92 15:28:25 GMT
Reply-To: murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy)
Organization: The Business Card (BBS), Lawrence, MA - Data: 508-682-5329

ed@odi.com (Ed Schwalenberg) writes:

> In article <4e1uPB1w165w@buscard.fidonet.org> murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Bria
>   mzraly@ra.cs.umb.edu (Michael S. Zraly) writes:
>   > tries to read to her boy -- he's about 3 or 4 -- and he won't stand for
>   > it.  He will scream.  He will pick up the book and throw it.
> 
>   No discipline.  We should be able to live in a world where this mother coul
>   spank her child and not get raised eyebrows and second guessing for it.
> 
>   You give that kid a good couple of whallops and he'll sit still for story
>   hour!
> 
> How typically Murph to believe that a good dose of physical violence will
> induce discipline (or even provoke the desired behavior!) in a 3 or 4 year
> old child

And you say it won't?  What would you do, try to reason with a 3 or 4 year
old?  Try to explain to the kid how important "The Little Train Who Could"
will help him get a good job 20 years from now?  Hogwash!  The kid'll simply
smile coyly at you before spitting up on the book.

What then?  Forget about making that kid read even though you know that it
_will,_ in fact, help him get a better job?  What is your definition of child
abuse?  How about negligent parenting?

                                      - - - Murph

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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   SysAdmin:  murph@buscard.fidonet.org / ...!ulowell!wizvax!buscard!murph
Newsgroups: ne.politics
From: boba@miki.pictel.com (Bob Alexander)
Subject: Re: Bearing arms: our first line of defense
Organization: PictureTel Corporation
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:54:31 GMT

Dave_Wetzel@vos.stratus.com writes:
>                                               As long as gun-control 
>laws are local, there can be no effective gun control.  You have to have a 
>national resolution.  Outlawing guns in Washington DC means nothing when 
>you can drive 10 mins out of the city and buy a gun.

Given the marvelous job our government is doing in keeping drugs out of
the country, what makes you think they can keep guns out?

>                                                  Clearly, if we can't 
>get national legislation then we might as well open the floodgates and 
>legalize the kind of anarchistic vigilantism that the NRA seems to 
>advocate.

The NRA advocates nothing of the sort.  You may think that repeal of
gun control laws would lead to "anarchistic vigilantism," and you're
welcome to make that claim, but remember that it's *your*
interpretation.  The NRA does a lot to ensure that guns are used responsibly.

(BTW, I'm not a member of the NRA.)

     Bob Alexander                                     boba@pictel.com
       The more the government does, the better libertarianism looks
     -----------------------------------------------------------------
     Organizations don't have opinions; people do.  The above opinions
     do not reflect those of the directors, stockholders, managers, or
     other employees of PictureTel.


Newsgroups: ne.politics
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: Observations on schools & money
Organization: insert anything here
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 19:51:30 GMT

borden@m5.harvard.edu writes:

>Of course there needs to be more money in the schools!  About a year and a
>half ago, I met a high school physics teacher who teaches in one of the
>public schools in Massachusetts (I don't remember the town - it was a
>small suburb.  He told me that he had one physics class, in which all levels
>of students from beginning to advanced, were lumped together.  

[sarcastic mode on]

	There's still a physics teacher in a high school here?

	Wow - they must have SOME football team to be able to
afford a physics teacher...

	(My brother has left the state because he hasn't been able
to get a job as a HS math teacher.  He was under a program designed
to get people into the schools who had Math, English and Science
BS degrees...  He discovered he *liked* teaching, and had no
problem with the 5-year committment to teaching in a HS...  But
every school this program sent their new teachers to, laid them off
Several schools were interested in him though because he also had
experience as a girls basketball coach...  Apparently there was $$$
available to fund a basketball team but not math/science teachers...)

	If we made all sports at the intramural level only, we'd
have a lot of $$$ to use on silly things like education.  High
school sports are a good thing, but not when they sclipse the reason
for the school's existence...

BBC
Xref: sparky ne.politics:2216 alt.politics.clinton:3762 alt.politics.bush:3786 talk.politics.misc:43219
From: borden@head-cfa.harvard.edu (Dave Borden)
Newsgroups: ne.politics,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Efficiency
Date: 1 Sep 92 21:41:55 GMT
Reply-To: borden@m5.harvard.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA,  USA

This country needs to pay more attention to efficiency.  Things could cost
a lot less if they could be made more efficient.  (I know this is obvious,
but I think it's worth discussing anyway.)  Here's one example:

Last October, before I found this job, I worked for 2 1/2 weeks at a horrible
temp job in a hospital billing office.  My sole task, which was also the
task of other temps working there at the same time, was to read radiology
billing information off a computer printout and type it into a computer.
If you know enough about computers to be reading this posting, then you know
that with a half-intelligent system, this task would not exist.  They were
using some old, slow, inefficient system that probably was second-rate at
the time it was released, which was years and years ago.  People in the office
took turns doing this work, because it was so tedious, and there usually were
temps there as well.  Suppose there was an average of 1.5 temp workers there
at all times, for which the hospital was paying the temp agency $15/hour
(this is a typical figure).  That comes to over $30,000 per year.  Say this
was going on for ten years.  The cost has come to over $300,000, and add in
the opportunity cost of not investing this money during that time, and it
probably approaches a million dollars.  The lack of precision isn't important;
the fact is that a lot of money was wasted on a task which should not have
existed in the first place.  This is probably only a small fraction of their
operating costs during that period of time, but it's still a significant
amount of money.  How many other inefficiencies are there in this
institution?  Probably a good deal.  Add them all together, and the amount
of waste is going to be tremendous, a significant contribution to the cost
of health care.  Some types of waste may be impossible to weed out, but other
types, like this poor computer system, would be easy to identify and correct.
It's in the nation's best interest to pursue efficiency.  If we could achieve
it, the savings would be tremendous.  My guess that the entire federal
budget deficit can be accounted for in terms of inefficiency.  (It's just a
guess - don't all jump on me for lack of documentation - but I think it's
very plausible.)

   - Dave Borden
     borden@m5.harvard.edu
From: richb@kronos.com (Rich Braun)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: Corporate Tax Ballot Question
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:39:47 GMT
Organization: Kronos Inc. / Waltham, MA
Disclaimer: This posting is a personal opinion and not that of Kronos Inc.

rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman) writes:
>It may be regressive, but in this case so what?  It's a tax on something
>that can be variously regarded as a luxury, a health risk, or 
>discretionary behavior.    In any event, if people don't want to pay
>the cigarette tax, they can stop smoking and spend the money on
>something better.

Ron, I'm surprised at that response:  you should understand fully why
it is that cigarette smoking is more popular among the poor and under-
educated than among the wealthy and powerful.

	a)  Nicotine is perhaps the world's most addictive drug
	b)  The companies which promote it are economically and
	    politically powerful enough to block most efforts to
	    restrict their distribution
	c)  It's easiest to target market segments which are the
	    most disenfranchised
	d)  Youth who aren't given enough adult attention will tend
	    to experiment with new things, and will tend to enforce
	    uniformity of behavior among peers

Smoking, like Republicanism, is most popular these days among the young
and the under-educated.  ;-)  So that's basically my argument as to why
cigarette taxes are regressive:  smoking by the young tends not to be
as voluntary as it may appear to those of us who have never smoked.

I'll vote for this ballot question, but I certainly won't campaign for it.

-rich
P.S.  I have the benefit of a personal perspective.  My boyfriend has
	been addicted to heroin, cocaine, nicotine, and a few other drugs.
	By far, nicotine is the hardest to kick, according to him.
	There's no substitute like methadone to make the transition
	easier, either.
From: lmh@world.std.com (Larry M Headlund)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: Bearing arms: our first line of defense
Summary: Historical note
Date: 25 Aug 92 18:31:38 GMT
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA


	(discussion of gun control situation in England deleted) 

	It is at least interesting that the strict gun control laws in England
were enacted just following the Russian Revolution I.
	No,  I wasn't there at the time,  my source is George Orwell's works.


-- 
Larry Headlund  lmh@world.std.com    Eikonal Systems (617) 482-3345 
Newsgroups: ne.politics
From: cmr@world.std.com (Charles M Richmond)
Subject: Re: Observations on schools & money
Organization: Integrated International Systems Corp. One Longfellow Place, Suite 3309, Boston, Ma.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:07:58 GMT

Terri Buchman <buchman@osf.org> writes:

>Throwing money.at schools doesn't help?????

>Then how come Weston, Brookline, Wellesley & Lexington schools
>regularly are ranked among the best in MA.  Could it be because
>they are well funded as well as strongly supported....

>TerriB.


I believe that they spend more in Lawrence and Boston..... hmmm, maybe 
to "strongly supported" is a LOT more important than the"well funded".


Charlie

-- 
*****************************************************************************
*  Charles Richmond 	Integrated International Systems Corporation        *
*  cmr@world.std.com	(Temporary) cmr@chiechan.mro4.dec.com		    *
*  Specializing in UNIX, X, Image Processing, and Communications.           *
From: cher@ksr.com (Mike Cherepov)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: S&L deregulation
Date: 27 Aug 92 11:48:30 EDT
Organization: Kendall Square Research Corp.

A characteristically balanced and fair-minded statement from Mr. Yodaiken:

> that the S&L $100billion down
> the toilet is directly attritbutable to the Reagan/Bush deregulation,

Most lists of proximate culprits I have seen put Reagan/Bush way behind
the high inflation of the late 70's which hit the loan portfolios, the
careless extention of federal insurance which socialized the losses, the
Glass-Steagal act which fractionalized the industry, and most notably,
the Congress which de-regulated and pleased the S&L lobbyists (rf. the
Keating Five), and a good number of other things.

	Mike Cherepov
		solely responsible for the blurb above
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Newsgroups: ne.politics,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Germany's Successful Social Programs
Date: 4 Sep 92 17:52:41 GMT
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: Curious Goods (formerly Louis Vendredi Antiques)

wag5@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>	If you leave food out you attract roaches.  The government
>left its crackers out and attracts thousands of $357/month roaches.
>Is this the social system you espouse?

If one follows the news from Germany to any extent, one would realize
that the Commies so thoroughly trashed the eastern part that there is
no way in hell that the private sector can adequately rush in and set
up shop with jobs.  The alternative is total anarchy in the six east
states.  Trablant factories made out of old Nazi Volkswagen works are
offered for free to BMW and Mercedes-Benz by the Treuhand (ministry 
of privatization, aka East German junkyard) but they cannot afford to
take them and raze them because the value of the land itself is very
dubious.  (All the useful Trablants have been picked up by U2 for
mounting their stagelights on their Zoo TV Outdoor Broadcast tour.)
As long as this void exists, that rot will continue.  Nothing at all
to do with their social market system ...

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare				
> gld@cunixB.cc.columbia.EDU		Oct 26/92: Just say "OUI!"
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			(Let's worry about the economy!)
From: gjc@mitech.com (George J. Carrette)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: Foreign policy musings
Date: 25 Aug 92 13:08:37 GMT
Followup-To: r.std.com>

Organization: Mitech Corporation, Concord MA

In article <BZS.92Aug21234633@ussr.std.com>, bzs@ussr.std.com (Barry Shein) writes:
> The odd thing is, they're not SO vital to the US. How much of the US's
> oil consumption do you believe comes from the region?

A common oversite to think of the importance of oil from a region
only in terms of how much the US itself consumes.

How important is the health of the Japanese economy (the worlds 2nd largest)
to the working of the world's largest economy?

I think the Japanese do qualify as being "SO vital" to the US. Don't you?

-gjc
Newsgroups: ne.politics
From: composer@world.std.com (Jeff Kellem)
Subject: Re: Adoption (was Re: Abortion- Kill/Save)
Reply-To: composer@Beyond.Dreams.ORG
Organization: Beyond Dreams
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 23:01:37 GMT

bzs@ussr.std.com (Barry Shein) writes:
 > In all due fairness to Murph I believe his point was that the Roman
 > Catholic church had failed to promote adoption (I assume as an
 > alternative to abortion?) sufficiently for his taste.

Ah, then I misunderstood.  Thanks for the clarification, assuming it's
correct.

		-jeff

Jeff Kellem
Internet: composer@Beyond.Dreams.ORG
Newsgroups: ne.politics