From: Montague_Kevin@Tandem.com (Kevvy Kev)
Subject: Re: Miracleman + Moran
Organization: In Effect Enterprises
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 21:55:20 GMT

In article <18h34kINN442@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy) writes:
> 
> 
> Montague_Kevin@Tandem.com (Kevvy Kev) says:
> 
> >> clear that he thinks of himself as different from Moran.  He calls Moran
> >> unreliable (talking to the guy with gem teeth) and says, you aren't dealing
> >> with Moran now.  Lot's of other clues.
> >
> >I think you're forgetting some equally important clues that point to the
> >opposite.  One quick one: when Mike finally remembers his word, and remembers
> >some of the past, he comes home to his wife and says "Honey?  Honey, don't
> >be afraid, it's me.  It's Mike."  Clear pointer to the fact than he feels
> >that it's still *him* in there.  
> 
> You're forgetting that was said at the very beginning of
>  the story.  At that point, MM + Moran were the same person.

I'm forgetting nothing.  Like I said, it happens when Mike finally remembers 
his magic word. . .in the first issue.  My point is, if you accept that 
"MM + Moran were the same person," to add "at that point" doesn't make much
sense.  Either they are, or they aren't.  The tension (and it's awful, this
is one of the reasons I credit Moore too much to pick at this story) and
movement of the tale grows out of how Moran goes schizo, vis-a-vis how
Miraclewoman/Avril and Bates deal with it.
Note that as the evil superhuman, KM is still referred to as "Bates."
 
>  As the story went on, it seems clear to me that the two
>  personalities diverged.  Mike is annoyed that MM is so
>  much smarter, purer, more direct -- and MM agrees, from the
>  other side.  As time goes on, the Miracle personality
>  outgrows Moran.  Same as with Bates.  

I don't think this applies quite so much with Bates. . .he was Very young
when he decided to remain a superhuman.  The effect would be different 
because he was the only superman around, because he was young, and of 
course just because Bates is a different person than Moran. Maybe the kid
was just nuts all along.
Keep in mind that the technology allows for an undefined number of bodies,
controlled by what the Qys call a "mind-pivot."  This implies that there
is one motive intellect/mind/soul, which selects between the several.
Also keep in mind that many of the differences between Moran and MM are
all in his mind. . .examine the reactions of others to him, as both personas,
and this becomes clear.  For example, the superior strength/eclectic range
of abilities that Bates manifests.  I doubt MM/Moran would even think to test 
his limits this way.  In fact, Winter says it overtly: "Oh, father: You really
are unimaginative!" Or somesuch.  I'll have to check. . . 

> >but condider the fact also that he decides to remain on earth, while Winter
> >makes a relatively early decision to cut out.  Again, the comparison is 
> >useful; I don't think Moran feels he doesn't "need" people.  Maybe need is 
> >the wrong word.
> 
> IMHO, MM stays on Earth not because he needs people, but
>  because he believes that people need HIM.  He cares about
>  his human ancestry + wants to help out.  Winter is an
>  amoral creature and has no such compunctions.  

You're not speaking to my point.  You say "he believes. . ." this doesn't
address the fact that he seems to need people, whatever he believes.  And
I'm not convinced he does believe it.
As far as "caring for his human ancestry and wanting to help out," this 
isn't what he's doing.  If this was his goal, he could be doing a lot more
thoughtful, well-applied work.  It seems that Gaiman was trying to show
this, with the last story-arc; what with people trying to assassinate him,
and cults of Bates-proponents springing up, and MM's aloofness.  

I think Moran's in over his head.

Kevvy Kev
 "Johnny?  Johnny, are you doing something. . .to my mind?"
  -Moran