From: ladislas@sobeco.com (Ladislas A.)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Singin' Those Apocalypse Blues
Date: 17 Dec 92 06:04:55 GMT
Organization: Sobeco Ernst & Young

In <1992Dec16.134133.18046@cattnts.canada.ncr.com> craig@cattnts.canada.ncr.com (Craig Campbell) writes:

>In article <1992Dec15.062017.9630@sobeco.com> ladislas@sobeco.com (Ladislas A.) writes:
>>This civilization is gangrenous.  Like the Phoenix, it must immolate itself
>>to be reborn from its ashes.

>Have you no eyes to see the good in our world as well?  Has life been so hard
>on you that you have given up entirley on our world (for should our
>civilization collapse, our world as we know it would surely be ended)?

I have no problem seeing the good in our world.  My opinions are not based
on frustrations or my lack of happiness.  As to how hard my life has been,
I can honestly say that I have had it easy.  Surely a lot easier than people
who live under the threshold of poverty.  My life would be considered a
dream life to someone who lives in Somalia or Ethiopia.  What hardships I
have lived through are by no means reasons to wish an end to this world.
I have the same hopes and dreams of seeing the beginnings of a golden age
as anybody else.

In a sense, I agree with you that should our civilization collapse, it would
mean the end of the world as we know it.  But that does not mean the end of
the human species or the end of happiness.  Basically, it means "Back to
the drawing board".

>Yes, there is plenty wrong with the world, but things are getting better.

For whom?  You?  The Somalians?  The Russians (now that they're rid of the
horrible "communist" regime)?

>If we can survive, then I hope that we can grow and evolve into something
>better and better.

We will survive.  We will grow and evolve.  The future is not set into
two scenarios as in "should we choose plan A, we go back to being cavemen,
while plan B sends us into inter-galactic travel with a free ticket to
paradise".

I may sound ambiguous but I have confidence in us humans.  IMO, to consider
the collapse of our civilization is not saying that humans have failed and
should be eliminated.  It is saying that humans must revise their plan of
evolution.  Take problem-solving in the computer industry as an example:
you don't scrap the machine because you've encountered a bug.  You analyse
the problem and in some extreme occasions, you must halt the system and
repair or upgrade.
a different example: a novelist will seldom scrap his whole novel because
one chapter is not to his liking.  He'll scrap that chapter and write a
different one.

>To destroy civilization and start over is drastic.
>To believe that things would then be better, naive (although optomistic in
>its own way) and simplistic.

True.  The problem is that most people are naive and simplistic in thinking
that someone else is going to fix everything for them.  While some are
saying that the present situation with the ozone layer requires emergency
mesures, others are scoffing at the idea while selling/buying better UV
blocking tanning lotion.  And that is one little example of the general
apathy.

>I would suggest that our best hope lies in suffering through the trials and
>tribulations of our civilization's adolescense and allowing it / us to
>reach maturity.

Humankind is in its adolescence.  Our civilization, I doubt it.

>>In our century, we have become obsessed with keeping death away at all cost.

>As well as calling death for no reason (suicides).  Different sides of the
>same coin?  How about the obsession with having it MY WAY, getting it NOW?

Two points that are relevant.  The motivations for the first are not easily
definable unless one looks at a very broad picture of how nature works and is
willing to accept that nature is much more than flora and fauna that can
be endangered by man's follies.
The second is childishness.

>We are barely learning to compromise.  Good things take time, the better
>the longer (Rome wasn't built in a day, and all that).

We're going to have to do a lot more than learn to compromise.

>Build on what is available now.  Don't wait for someone else to build a better
>world from our ashes, they (probably) won't.  If you want a better world,
>then build one.

The word is not "they", "you" or "me".  It's "WE".

>>Ladislas.

>Merry Christmas,
>craig
>-- 

Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year to you also.

Ladislas.
Newsgroups: alt.magick