HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tytso@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Theodore Ts'o)
Subject: Re: header woes with 2.2.2d
Reply-To: tytso@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Theodore Ts'o)
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 20:14:15 GMT

   From: davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
   Date: 19 Aug 92 12:46:49 GMT
   Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)

     Having done a good bit of distributed development over the years has
   convinced me that this is one place where a little good software
   engineering practice is important. We are talking about three people (or
   groups) promptly sharing changes to the header file. People who are in
   fast communication via network.

Ah, the difference is that's what I think is happening right now.  Keep
in mind that most of the incompatibilities happen because of new features
in the kernel.

So when Linus releases changes to the kernel, he's doing exactly what
you ask.  He generally does so quite promptly (especially if you compare
what he does against the release cycles of companies like Microsoft),
and he does so publically.  Then,  everyone who does work on these
changes (like the maintainers of ps, GCC, and possibly others that we
don't know about) can update their programs so that they work again.

The problem is that everybody *else* takes the new patches right away,
and complains when things break.  I don't know.... when *I* took
patchlevel 1 to 0.97, I took a couple of minutes glancing through the
changes, and then I was able to quickly hack ps to make it work.  It
didn't slow me down much.  But if it is going to slow you down; if
you're only interested in doing applications development on Linux (and
that *is* an honorable thing to do), I would suggest that you wait for a
few weeks until everything settles down.

Keep in mind that when the next set of patches to Linux comes out, Linus
has already said that the virtual memory code has been rewritten, and ps
is going to break in major ways.  I'd rather not have him hold back his
release while other people scurry around and fix ps, and the other
programs.

I would rather the kernel changes get released, and people who don't
mind living on the bleeding edge, or who don't mind living without "ps"
can play with it right away, and people who want all of the comforts of
home SIMPLY NOT TAKE THE KERNEL CHANGES RIGHT AWAY.  Is that such a hard
thing?

If people don't have enough self control to keep their paws off of the
latest stuff (or who could take the latest stuff and then not bitch when
things broke), one alternative is to have a fascist alpha-testing
program, as you suggested --- but when you have to do this in the
freeware domain, what you are doing is forcibly excluding people from
taking the "testing release" when they should know better.  Perhaps it
is a stupid hope, but I was hoping that people would be adult enough and
intelligent enough and have enough self-control so that sort of thing
wouldn't be necessary.

							- Ted
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: hfaester@Physik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Hannes Faestermann)
Subject: Re: SLS: Free Linux Distribution.
Organization: Leibniz-Rechenzentrum, Muenchen (Germany)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:47:15 GMT

glover@dvinci.USask.Ca (Ken Glover) writes:

>erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes:
>: Peter MacDonald (pmacdona@sanjuan) wrote:
>: 
...complaints about biz posting deleted...

>Read the original post again, it is available by anon ftp if you have access.
>There is nothing wrong with distributing it by disk.  If you don't like it,
>compete with it.

Hmm, am I blind or what ? I can't find an address for ftp in the posting.
Or was this meant only for a few special people until a ftp server is
found ?

Still interested in SLS

	Hannes

--
Hannes Faestermann           |  Internet: 
Physik-Department E17        |   Hannes.Faestermann@Physik.TU-Muenchen.DE
TU Muenchen,                 |  
8046 Garching, West Germany  |
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: erc@Apple.COM (Ed Carp)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: What happened to nic.funet.fi
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:21:34 GMT
Organization: Bleeding Edge Technologies - 'Sliding Down The Razor Blade Of Life...'

Hmmm...anyone know what happened to nic.funet.fi?  DNS says that it doesn't
exist... :(
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/269-8125
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
From: jwinstea@jarthur.claremont.edu (Jim Winstead Jr.)
Subject: Re: root disk vs. mj disk, also hd.c patch
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, WIBSTR
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:49:59 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.011334.17155@ultb.isc.rit.edu> axi0349@ultb.isc.rit.edu (A.X. Ivasyuk ) writes:
>First of all, how do you get the executables to be so tiny on the root disk
>and the mj distribution?  I can't get mine under 9K, even a 'hello, world'
>program.  I'd like to be able to squeeze my 80MB drive to the max.
>It can't be just the -O flag on gcc.

Use both the '-N' and '-s' flags to the linking stage.  -N creates an
'impure' executable, which can't be demand-paged.  -s strips the
symbol information from the compiled file.

>Second, why the large difference in file size between some of the binaries
>on the 'official' root disk and the mj disk?  Are they different versions?
>Provide extra features?

It's possible they're different versions of the same package, or
completely different versions of the same type of software.  A good
example is 'tar' - on the 0.97 (and 0.96) root, tar is simply a
symlink to pax, the Posix standard archiver.  On the MJ releases, tar
has been GNU tar.
-- 
                                    +    Jim Winstead Jr. (CSci '95)
                                    |            Harvey Mudd College
                                    | jwinstea@jarthur.Claremont.EDU
                                    + This is all my words.  Honest!
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Subject: Re: What happened to nic.funet.fi
Reply-To: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:32:08 GMT

>The gateway for Finland's connection to the Internet (in Norway or
>Sweden, I believe) is down for repairs or somesuch.  This obviously
>has effects on those of us on this side of the world (well, anywhere
>outside of Finland itself, I guess) and access to those sites.

There's been problems with the line between Finland and Sweden.  The
line is provided by the telecoms (I think both Finnish and Swedish),
so direct your flames there.

There was a report that they found at least one problem with the line
and fixed it, so line outages should be less frequent in the future.

//Jyrki
From: rohrer@fncrd6.fnal.gov (Keith Rohrer)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Ctrl-Alt-Del in linux, doesn't work.
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:05:11 GMT
Organization: Fermilab

In article <1992Aug12.025408.10612@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> int177c@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Jae Won) writes:
>In article <1992Aug6.174753.11908@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> bj@perfmap.austin.ibm.com writes:
>>I have absolute no problems with C_A_D on my 386/40 with Forex chipset
>>and AMI BIOS. Anybody see a pattern ?
>>Bjarne "BJ" Hansen
>>bj@perfmap.austin.ibm.com
>>#include <std/disclaimer.h>
>Me neither. Until last night. My system is 386/33 with AMI bios
>Jae
>int177c@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au
I have a 386/40 Forex with AMI BIOS and I *do* often have rebooting problems.
Sometimes reboot/shutdown/halt work, sometimes they just sit there forever.
It's more likely that C-A-D will succeed if I'm logged in on the current
VC than if I'm not.

	Keith
(rohrer@fncrd0.fnal.gov)


-- 
Disclaimer: None of Grinnell College, URA, Fermilab, and any other affiliated
persons or orginizations have licensed my ideas or opinions, and thus are
not entitled to any which may appear above.
 
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: rick@ee.uwm.edu
Subject: What we need is an *address*.
Summary: We *DON'T* need any 'organization'!
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:42:00 GMT

Rather than "organizing something" to help Linus pay off his computer,
why don't we just ask him for his address and prefered currency?
Then whoever wishes may go to their local bank and have a money-order
made out in whatever amount they wish and send it via paper-mail.
(Remember: Don't send bills and coins through the mail. They vanish.)

So, Linus?  What's your address? and what's your favorite currency?

Rick Miller   <rick@ee.uwm.edu> | <rick@discus.mil.wi.us>
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: arumble@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Anthony Rumble)
Subject: PTYP/TTYP programming.. 
Organization: Sydney University Computing Service, Sydney, NSW, Australia
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 10:04:01 GMT

Im sure this is a common problem, but.. i have no information
to help me with this..

I am writing a small client to do something, that uses PTYP/TTYP pairs..

The client opens the ttyp open("/dev/ttyp0", O_RDWR) etc etc

and then fdopen's two streams (one for input, one for output)..

well.. anything that is sent to /dev/ptyp0 for some reason
ends up on the client twice!!?!?!

the client only does this as yet..

while(1)
   {
   ch = fgetc(datin)l
   printf("%c", ch);
   }

If in another VT.. I do this echo hello >/dev/ptyp0

I will get 

Hello
Hello

I get it twice?!?!

Any ideas..

Thanx in advance


-- 
Anthony Rumble
aka SmilieZ
"Anything is possible.. If there is enuf money in it"
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: maniattb@cs.rpi.edu (Bill Maniatty)
Subject: Re: shared libs - can everyone be happy with this?
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 14:42:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.065450.28834@colorado.edu>, drew@ophelia.cs.colorado.edu (Drew Eckhardt) writes:
|> In article <NOP.92Aug16220027@theory.Mankato.MSUS.EDU> nop@theory.Mankato.MSUS.EDU (Jay A. Carlson) writes:
|> >In article <1992Aug15.042420.18914@serval.net.wsu.edu> hlu@phys1.physics.wsu.edu (Hongjiu Lu) writes:
	[Stuff Deleted] 
|> Also, if we ever unbreak Linux, writing to code space should trigger
|> a segmentation fault - it's like it is now because the estdio library 
|> was broken, and wrote to the code. 
	Does linux permit self modifying code (by design or bug)?
	This seems like a pretty bad ``feature''.

Bill

-- 
|
|	maniattb@cs.rpi.edu - in real life Bill Maniatty
|
From: pete@q106fm.UUCP (pete cervasio)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Whining...I don't want to hack on the kernel
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 21:27:02 CDT
Organization: WKBQ-FM Engineering Department

dzubin@skorpio.usask.ca (Thomas Dzubin) writes:

> In article <1992Aug13.133700.9139@klaava.Helsinki.FI> torvalds@klaava.Helsink
> >So the answer is to upgrade your kernel: if possible all the way to
> >0.97.pl1 + the one-line patch due to performance reasons, but 0.96c or
> >similar should work very well for your needs.
...del...
> Sorry if this is sacreligious, but I DON'T WANT TO HACK THE KERNEL.  It
> would be absolutely *wonderful* if someone (ANYONE!?) would put the
> binary of 0.97.pl1 somewhere FTP-able.
...del...
> Here's the problem:  I have only a 2400bps modem to connect to the Internet.
> I would love to get the new .97 patch with the performance improvement

I don't know if you want to try this, but I've got it on my BBS as a
"free" download.  No, the BBS doesn't call back and deliver it.. :-)  It
means that a person with one minute of time left online can say "D
BOOT97P1.ZIP" and get the file.  It's available to first time callers,
as well.   The file is about 110k (or so).

EchoMania PCBoard, 1-618-233-1659.  Fidonet 1:2250/1 (for those out
there that do "f'req"ing).

Pete C.


+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Cervasio                | pete%q106fm.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu     |
| I fish, therefore I am.      | pete.cervasio@f1.n2250.z1.fidonet.org |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: sharpe@adodem.enet.dec.com
Subject: Re: Stabilizing Linux
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:18:00 GMT


In article <1992Aug11.203132.11397@crd.ge.com>, davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen) writes...
>In article <1992Aug11.124211.5861@klaava.Helsinki.FI>, wirzeniu@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lars Wirzenius) writes:
> 
>| >What would linux be without 2 AM kernel patches? :) Or 3 different getty
>| >programs, shoelace, lilo, and 4 different versions of the kernel to play
>| >with? :)
>| 
>| Probably dead.  I have no intention that this changes, but I don't think
>| anybody is claiming that this is the ideal environment in which real
>| work should be made (no, I don't mean that you should use current Linux
>| for real work when it is still officially in beta).
> 
>  Linux won't be a "real" o/s until the production kernel (what Linus
>releases) includes support for (at least) SCSI and QIC-02 tapes. What
>good is a neat o/s which you can't back up?
> 
>  And while I may have have networking at home, most people don't have
>2nd machines, or ethernet, or anything like that, and are backing up to
>floppy, a solution which stops being practical about 20MB, and stops
>being possible about 60MB.
>-- 
>bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
>    I admit that when I was in school I wrote COBOL. But I didn't compile.

I have an Archive (I think that is it) 120 MB tape backup on my machine. It 
uses 3M DC2120 tapes. 

What format are these? QIC-02?

Regards
Richard Sharpe
From: davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Jumptable Performance (Was: Re: shared libs - can everyone be happy with this?)
Date: 19 Aug 92 12:55:41 GMT
Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady NY

In article <1992Aug18.154149.26416@fys.ruu.nl>, hooft@fys.ruu.nl (Rob Hooft) writes:

| Yes, that is what I expect too, but I didn't expect the usertime to go
| down at all, certainly not by over 0.5 seconds. We're talking a
| program here that runs for 25 hard CPU-seconds! I'll be timing again
| this evening, and might even retry the BYTE-bench this time. Twice,
| that is. I guess I'll be using jump-libs for the rest of my linux-life....

  Like most things which seem too good to be true, I'm suspicious. Does
anyone have an explanation why adding size and instructions to every
library call would make the program use less user CPU (or appear to)?
Having used jump tables before I have to be suspicious.

  If more instructions and bigger size really improved performance we'd
all leave -O off our compiles, right. Therefore it's an interesting
little puzzle.
-- 
bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
    I admit that when I was in school I wrote COBOL. But I didn't compile.
From: sharpe@adodem.enet.dec.com
Subject: Re: Help: rawrite.exe does not put EOF
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 22:02:10 GMT


In article <1992Aug17.224605.18276@iitmax.iit.edu>, thssbxv@iitmax.iit.edu (Boris Vaysburg) writes...
>Why is it when I use rawrite.exe to copy some stuff from my dos partition to
>the disk and then when I use dd I get 1.44Meg file independently of what the original size was. And of cource I can not 
>uncompress, tar it later.   

What would an EOF look like on a floppy?

Thus you get back the whole floppy, with junk in the sectors that rawrite did
not write there in the first place. Still, the tar/cpio/whatever file is OK!

Regards
Richard Sharpe
From: mirons@ccs.northeastern.edu (Michael A. Irons)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: README: gcc 2.2.2d is out
Summary: install dies 'cause dist missing shared libraries
Date: 17 Aug 92 05:07:44 GMT
Organization: Northeastern University, CCS Dept.


	I got all the 2.2.2d***, 0.97inc.tar.Z, binutils.tar.Z files as well
as the inst* script. The script untarred all the files and then promptly dies
due to a lack of  .../2.2.2d/shared/libhard.a. I copied the 
.../2.2.2d/shared/libm.a to libhard.a in a vain effort to get it to finish
installing and it went a little furthur before dying. Then it fails due to
a lack of /lib/libc.so.2.

	In a nutshell, could you please make shure that his can be installed
correctly and include ALL the shared/libs.

	PS: Some of the include files are NOT READABLE by anyone but the owner.

					Mike Irons
				mirons@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu

-- 
 --
                                  Mike Irons;
                       mirons@Dworkin.CCS.Nortehastern.EDU	(School)
                 mirons%minix1.uucp@MecEng.COE.Northeastern.EDU	(Home)
From: hlu@phys1.physics.wsu.edu (Hongjiu Lu)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: What/where is syslog.h
Date: 18 Aug 92 01:37:01 GMT
Organization: Washington State University

Get gcc 2.2.2d and send a note to bir7@leland.stanford.edu.

-- 
H.J.
Gcc/libc maintainer for Linux.
In article <1570@sousa.ltn.dec.com>, tucker@yuppie.enet.dec.com (David Tucker) writes:
|> 
|> In attempting to compile GNU fax-3.2 I am stopped because on of
|> the .h files tries to include syslog.h.  What/where is that?  Thanks.
|> 
|> Regards,
|> David Tucker @ATO / tucker@yuppie.ENET.dec.com
From: kjh@pollux.usc.edu (Kenneth J. Hendrickson)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: The joys of 0.97 PL1!
Date: 16 Aug 1992 20:42:59 -0700
Organization: EE-Systems, USC, Los Angeles
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

	Subject: Re: The joys of 0.97 PL1!
				      ^^^

There is no joy for anyone using the PL1 language.  Nor for COBOL
users.  :-)

-- 
"Arguing about predestination is virtually irresistible."    --RC Sproul
Ken Hendrickson N8DGN/6       kjh@usc.edu       ...!uunet!usc!pollux!kjh
From: simonich@uservx.plk.af.mil
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: NEW linux ftp site (banjo ressurected)
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:17:03 GMT
Summary:                 
Organization: Phillips Laboratory - Kirtland AFB

In article <3337@ra.nrl.navy.mil>, eric@tantalus.dell.com (Eric Youngdale) writes:
> In article <4514@news.duke.edu> magidj@cellbio.duke.edu (Jonathan Magid) writes:
>>(sorry if you've seen this before. i posted it in non-80 column mode)
>>
>>howdy all,
>>
>>I would like to announce a reincarnation of banjo.  As a result of some 
>>marathon FTP sessions, all of banjo has been reproduced on reggae.oit.unc.edu 
>>in ftp/pub/pc-stuff/Linux.  I will be actively maintaining this so, uploads 
>>are most encouraged.
> 
> How about making the pub/pc-stuff/Linux/Incoming directory writable. :-)
> 
> -Eric
> --
> Eric Youngdale
> eric@tantalus.nrl.navy.mil

and readable?
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: pmacdona@sanjuan (Peter MacDonald)
Subject: Motif in SLS
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, CANADA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 01:10:14 GMT

Contrary to what someone said, Motif is NOT included in the SLS
distribution.  Instead it includes the GWM (generic window manager)
which has a Motif emulation mode.  So no patent infringement is 
involved.  Log on to "user1" on SLS and type startx to see it.

pmacdona@sanjuan.uvic.ca
From: wirzeniu@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lars Wirzenius)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Where is The " Linux Standards list "
Date: 13 Aug 92 07:45:01 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

djansa@aphrodite.cs.wisc.edu (Dean Jansa) writes:
>Can someone point me to the  Linux Standards list as discussed in 
>the CHANGES-0.97-root file in tsx-11??

The address is contained the FAQ, available at your favourite FTP site.
(I don't have it handy right now.)

--
Lars.Wirzenius@helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: david@ods.com (David Engel)
Subject: Re: compiling error in gcc.2.2.2d
Organization: Optical Data Systems, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:16:10 GMT

Kuo-Chen Chang (harry@atlas.socsci.umn.edu) wrote:
: Hello there.  I just installed gcc 2.2.2d on my 486.  And I could not wait
: to try the new compiler.  TO my surprise, I got some complains:
: 
: /usr/include/stdlib.h:55: conflicting types for "div_t"
: /usr/include/linux/types.h:68: previous declaration of "div_t"
: /usr/include/stdlib.h:62: conflicting types for "ldiv_t"
: /usr/include/linux/types.h:69: previous declaration of "ldiv_t"
: 
: Did I miss something?

Did you install GCC 2.2.2d with the 0.97pl1 kernel source?  The binaries
and libraries work with the 0.96c or later kernels but the header files 
are really only for 0.97pl1.

David
-- 
David Engel                        Optical Data Systems, Inc.
david@ods.com                      1101 E. Arapaho Road
(214) 234-6400                     Richardson, TX  75081
From: liljeber@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Mika Pekka Liljeberg)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: shared libs - can everyone be happy with this?
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:33:59 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Helsinki, Finland

In article <1992Aug17.151311.29507@ods.com> david@ods.com (David Engel) wrote:
> william E Davidsen (davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM) wrote:
> : In article <1992Aug17.065450.28834@colorado.edu>, drew@ophelia.cs.colorado.edu (Drew Eckhardt) writes:
> : 
> : | Boom.  You've just dirtied that page, and it is no longer 
> : | shareable.  So, instead of having > 200K shared between all
> : | of your shells, you have closer to 800K (Who has less than
> : | 4 shells running at a time).  Not a good thing (tm).
> : 
> :   Well, no, actually. Since the new version of the page is still valid
> : for all processes it would still be sharable. And it would not have to
> : be saved somewhere in the unlikely event that it gets paged out, because
> : the unmodified varsion is still perfectly valid.
> 
> No, it wouldn't be shareable.  When a process writes to a shared page,
> it gets its very own copy of it which is no longer shared.  There is a
> term for this that you probably already know, but others may not.  It's
> called Copy-On-Write.

I'll admit right away that I'm no expert, but it seems to me that William is
right. The page _could_ still be shared, since all the processes using the
page would be using the same libs. Of course, some kernel support would be
needed: The page fault handler would have to check, if the referenced address
is in library space and if so, fix the reference to point to the correct
place in the library and clear the dirty-bit for that page instead of doing
a Copy On Write. This would also work for static data references, as long as
the data structures didn't change too profoundly.

Would this break demand loading, then? I think not. A text page could still
be freed and reloaded on demand. Any library references on it would simply
get relinked, when the path of execution intercepted them.

Also, I don't think this would bloat the kernel much at all. It would be a
fairly small addition to the page fault handler (ok, if I'm wrong, sue me).

So, what am I missing? I know you have researched this matter thoroughly and
have decided that jump libs are The Way It Should Be Done (and a good way it
is, too). But why not do it this way? (btw, I followed the discussion on the
GCC channel, when it was most heated and I don't recall seeing anything to
prevent this).

> David
> -- 
> David Engel                        Optical Data Systems, Inc.
> david@ods.com                      1101 E. Arapaho Road
> (214) 234-6400                     Richardson, TX  75081

	Mika
--
Mika Liljeberg			Email:	liljeber@kruuna.Helsinki.FI
Helsinki University			Mika.Liljeberg@Helsinki.FI
Dept. of Computer Science
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux