From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ba.politics
Subject: Re: Voluntary school prayer
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:00:48 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <casseres-141092090849@kip2-23.apple.com>, casseres@apple.com (David Casseres) writes:
> In article <12732@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
> wrote:
# # I think Mr. Casseres has the state and the reason the law was
# # struck down, wrong.  Alabama passed such a "minute of silence" law,
# # and the courts struck it down because the stated purpose (legislative
# # intent) was to provide an opportunity for prayer.
# 
# I may have gotten the state wrong, but I am quite sure that although the
# legislative intent was clear, it was not stated by the legislature; it was
# clear from context, exactly like Manley's proposal.

The Alabama case (the only recent one I am aware of) was because the
legislators arguing for the law stated that was the intent.  Did
Arkansas pass a similar law?  (If so, did Clinton sign it?)

# # I'm hard pressed to see how providing such a minute of silence is
# # contrary to the First Amendment.  It is immediately obvious why
# # organized and led prayers (such as were in effect and struck down
# # in the case of Madelyn Murray O'Hair's lawsuit) are a violation
# # of the "establishment" part of the First Amendment.
# 
# The legislative intent makes it a First Amendment violation.

I would agree.  But in the absence of that intent, I see no problem.

# # The problem is that liberal enthusiasm for suppressing religious
# # belief is contrary to the "free exercise" clause of the First
# # Amendment.  A minute of silence provides an opportunity, does not
# # violate the "free exercise" clause, and should provide a way for
# # a public school to satisfy (as much as public schools ever can)
# # the demands of those who want an opportunity for prayer in public
# # schools.
# 
# The problem is that some right-wing Christians are not satisfied with free
# exercise, and insist on a public, institutional, sectarian religious

I know a lot of "right-wing Christians."  Why is that none of them
that I know support such an idea?  Are you sure that such exist?
Or is this a strawman that the liberals use to justify oppression?

# exercise, *especially* in government-funded institutions.  This is
# unconstitutional.  An officially mandated minute of silence, which
# everybody knows is for the purpose of prayer, is not required for free
# exercise of religion.

You mean, like the exercise of free speech doesn't require you to
be able to burn a flag, because there are other ways to exercise
free speech?  "Free exercise" isn't free if it's restricted -- or
so liberals like to claim about free speech.

# # Me?  I don't think it makes sense for public schools to have such
# # a minute of silence for that purpose.  It makes more sense for the
# # public schools to go away, so that all these arguments can be
# # replaced with a liberal's biggest enemy, diversity.
# 
# Not to mention a right-winger's favorite ally, ignorance.
# 
# David Casseres

If the goal of right-wingers was ignorance, they would just allow
public schools to continue on their merry way.



-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Lesson learned from Gov. Wilson's signing of AB 2601: if you don't get 
your way, have a riot.  Next time, Gov. Wilson will cower appropriately.