From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: The real gamble of self-defense with a gun
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 10:21:19 GMT

In <1it58vINNgbq@flash.pax.tpa.com.au> anon.526@pax.tpa.com.au writes:

>Your opponent is not actually a criminal.  If you use a gun
>against him, you will be the criminal.

	Not necessarially.  Shooting at somebody is not even a
criminal act in all cases, especially given lawyers who make laws
and go hunting once a year during deer season.  Still, if I think
his intent warrants potentially lethal force to stop him, I don't
particularly give a rat's ass if, in fact, he was a criminal.  He
was enough of a threat to me to justify it, and I hope the court
sees things as I did.  That's where my jury of 12 is necessary.
But then again, you've been blown out of the water on so many
arguments of late I can see where you might be grasping at straws
and hence provide this possible scenario.

>I don't have any statistics either, because it seems that the vast
>majority of defendants in homicide cases claim self-defense

	Strangely enough, I've *never* seen you post a statistic.
If you expect to claim opposite to the predominant view here, they
might be of use to you.  The RKBA archives might even be of help.
As it stands, I'd read the stats and believe you are wrong.  BTW:
I go in for hernia surgery within a week or so.  That will leave me
plenty of time in bed to e-mail you the entire archive if you want,
but I'd rather you did your own research using other sources.  Until
that time, I claim the FBI Uniform Crime Report to back me up.

>Christian Brando shot and killed his sister's ex-boyfriend Dag Drollet
>in the erroneous belief that Drollet was about to harm him or his
>family.

	And Christian, if acting from a reasonable fear, was correct
in it being a self-defense shooting.  The jury found differently.  So
what?  I read about this case many years ago in Playboy or some other
magazine that did a feature article on it (Playboy?  It could have
been another, but somehow this seems the right magazine).  From the
article, Christian had ample reason, but not enough reason for what
the court defined as a "reasonable" adult.  There were a few mitigating
factors, as I recall, and in the end the case could hardly be considered
proof of anything save that a jury didn't think Christian was justified
in shooting.  It's not as if he planned a murder or anything, and as I
recall not only was his sentence light, but his rather famous father did
absolutely noothing to influence opinion on the matte.  This does seem
to point to a decent application of the law.

>But if you're trying to persuade Mr. Kelly or me or anyone else that
>shooting the wrong man is a remote possibility in general, you ought to
>back it up with some actual facts.

	Have you tried the FBI report?  It might shed some light, though
not the light you might wish to see.  In addition, you might have to learn
how to interpret it.  Read it and post what you think -- we'll be quite
happy to tell you when you are wrong, such as now.

>I will always give another human being nearly limitless benefit of the
>doubt before pointing a gun at him or her.  If it means I or
>someone in my family might die needlessly, so be it.  At least I
>won't kill needlessly.

	May Father Darwin have kindness on your genes.  I merely thank
heaven you are no relation of mine.  Would you be a vegan, by any chance?
There's loads of needless killing implications in eating or using animal
products you might wish to visit talk.politics.animals to learn more
about.  Most of us, however, favor survival over ethics.  I merely bring
up the vegan point so you might have some perspective on your moral decision.

	In the immortal words of C. Darwin, "Gene police!  Out of the pool!"

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
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