From: bse@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Besime Erin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: Yes, Remember Cyprus
Date: 3 Sep 92 21:35:09 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <BtzD8x.Is6@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis ) writes:
>bse@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Besime Erin) writes:
>
>>Turkey came to STOP the aggression not to start it. However undesirable today's
>>situation in Cyprus might be to the Greek Cypriots and may be to some Turkish 
>>Cypriots, blood has not been shed on the island for the past 18 years. 
>
> Therefore, every 50 years lets make a war, and then get some rest.
> Or, if we want to stop the crimes in LA, lets nuck the place! 
>
> Your argument sucks.

Yours does too.

The ethnic fights had STARTED in Cyprus as early as 1958 and YOU very well
know that!!!! 
 
The Greek Cypriots HAD THE POWER, THE ARMS, THE CONTROL IN THE GOVERNMENT  
while the Turkish Cypriots were the minority being pushed around, killed,
and mistreated. We did have a defense organization fighting back which people 
who have been following this net for a while must know well by now BUT
we are talking ~~~550,000 community (Greek Cypriots) using their resources
(lethal, economical etc etc.) against a ~150,000 community (Turkish Cypriots).
You tell me who would be the aggressors and who would be the victims in this 
case. 

>
> The double Turkish invasion resulted in thousand deads. Killing people does
> not justify any purpose.

Yeah, right. 

You have killed and tortured who knows how many Turkish Cypriots over the
period 1958-1974 ( 16 YEARS ) and you are telling me the Turkish Army killed
more people than you have in only 1 MONTH!

1974 was a military intervention while 1958-1974 was THE ETHNIC CLEANSING OF 
THE TURKISH CYPRIOTS.1974 Peace Operation was literally asked for by 
the Greek Cypriots and Greeks
(1974 military takeover of the Cyprus Government controlled by the Greek army, 
dreams of ENOSIS etc etc.) while I don't believe Turkish Cypriots had asked
to be cleansed !!!! 

>
>>Before then, ethnic fights were at their peak!!! The lives of 
>>the Turkish Cypriots were in danger !
>
> Yes, we know.  Everywhere the lives of Turks are in danger.  And the
> mother Turkey is always willing to make cleansing, kill thousands of innocent
> people in order to save the lives of some Turks. And you think this is right!
                                       ^^^^^^^^^^    
Those some Turks are the TURKISH CYPRIOTS. We are also people of CYPRUS, we willALWAYS BE.... We have as much right to CYPRUS as the Greek Cypriots do.
Turkey chose to NOT WATCH US DIE and acted in 1974. We are GRATEFUL, 
we are GRATEFUL and we are GRATEFUL. Otherwise we were going to have the same
fate as the Bosnians in former Yugoslavia now do since noone has been brave 
enough (or human enough) to help them yet and don't tell me religion is not 
not a factor in this either. We the Turkish Cypriots are also muslims 
so the West would have and was reacting the same way(reluctant to move their
fingers that is) like they now do towards the Bosnians. 


> Do you think stupidity is a virtue?
>

Your stupidity seems to be a virtue to you! 

>>Remembering and reiterating the past will NOT help Theodore! IT simply WILL NOT!
>
> Remembering always helps. History repeats itself.  Tell your Master Untrue

Yea,that's right.

History could repeat itself. That's why we need to make sure we don't fall
into the same trap as in 1960-1974 if we wish to continue to live! 

> Totally Lying Unit to stop provoking us.  The same applies to the hypocrite
> Mr. Akgun.  You have commited the bigest crime in Cyprus, you want now
> to just forget it?

Hey you are talking to a Turkish Cypriot who knows very well how the people of
her community were mistreated,by the Greek Cypriots, pushed around and
( I met an elderly, very friendly man at the Dentist when I was home only a 
little while ago). He said while we were discussing the recent develpments 
in the Cyprus issue that he was taking his very
sick,almost dying child to the doctor when he was stopped by the Greek Cypriot
police, hit in the back strongly with the back of a rifle and fell to the 
ground with his almost dying child in his arms!!!

This is only one(actually very mild) incident among the very many!!!

>
>>I wish to keep the lessons from the painful experiences in the past and 
>>benefit from them in the future but I don't want them hinder my vision
>>by CONSTANTLY HATING the other side which you seem to be doing!  
>
> You have moved 200,000 people out of their homes.  Thousands of people are
> missing in action; Turkey refuses to answer what happened to those people.
> You think is so easy to forget?  When some people can see their houses
> some meters away into the Turkish zone, is it so easy to forget?
>


Try to see the other side's case too for once. 
We the TUrkish CYpriots have lost
people and left property in the South as well.

I can look at my mother's families house from the green line in Nicosia
(It's also on the other side) too. Propotionately my people have been
displaced from their homes too and They had started living in refugee camps
LONG BEFORE 1974. 

I have a counterargument to make for every argument you make to me about 
Cyprus so once again continue your efforts to have the world believe that
you are the innoncent angels in this case WHEN YOU CLEARLY AREN'T and WHEN
YOU KNOW IT BUT YOU FAIL TO ADMIT IT.


> And just how can someone benefit from the experiences of the past?  The
> experience teaches me the following:  murder thousands of people, make
> ethnic cleansing, and expect nothing to hapen to you.  This is what
> the experience in Cyprus teaches me !!!
>
> Has Germany paid for her crimes? Yes.
> Has Iraq paid for its crimes? Yes.
> Has Turkey paid for her crimes? No !!!!
  Has Greece and the Greek Cypriots paid for their crimes ? Only to a certain
                                               extent. Thanks to Turkey!


>
>>>Theodore David.
>>Besime Erin
>
> 
>
>-- 
>---> Panos Tamamidis
>     University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

Besime Erin
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:9458 talk.politics.mideast:19274 talk.politics.soviet:7451 soc.culture.greek:8149 soc.culture.europe:7855 soc.history:7838