From: stanley@skyking.oce.orst.edu (John Stanley)
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.policy
Subject: User's Guide to the Changing USENET
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:27:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: talon.1ericfINNf1h
Reply-To: stanley@skyking.oce.orst.edu (John Stanley)
Distribution: world
Organization: Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR
NNTP-Posting-Host: skyking.oce.orst.edu


People have been talking about a document like this. I haven't seen 
anything yet, so here is something to start with. A companion to the
real guidelines.
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User's Guide to the Changing Usenet

--> Summary: (I.e., READ THIS, if nothing else!)

  1. RFD's are important. Read them before deciding to ignore them.
  2. CFV's are REALLY important. Read them before deciding to ignore them.
  3. To keep up with everything, read news.announce.newgroups. 
  4. To discuss new groups, read news.groups.
  5. To learn more about USENET, read news.announce.newusers. 
  6. To learn even more, ask questions.

--> "Should I read this document?"

	Yes. At some point, you will find that your newsgroup is under
scrutiny for change. This is an explanation of what is happening.

--> "What will I learn if I do?"

	This document attempts to explain the process for changes to
USENET newsgroups from the user's viewpoint. It is a supplement to the
"How to create a USENET Group" article (also called "The Guidelines"),
and is not intended as a guideline for action, only as an explanation.

	You will find lots of other information in the newsgroup
news.announce.newusers. If your site doesn't get it, talk to your
admin.

--> "USENET groups can change?"

	Yes. USENET groups are not chiseled in stone. There are requests
for new newsgroups to cover new topics, or to split one newsgroup into
two or more selective areas of a topic. For example: rec.aviation
recently split into many subgroups that are more specific as to topic.

	Sometimes newsgroups are moved so that related newsgroups are
under the same hierarchy. For example, most science fiction groups were
moved under the rec.arts.sf hierarchy. This is called a reorganization,
or "reorg" for short. These are intended to make it easier for you, the
new user, to find related newsgroups.

--> "How do I know when my newsgroup is being considered for a change?"

	In some cases, the discussion about a newsgroup change starts in
the newsgroup itself. Someone will post a message saying "Hey! I have
this great idea ...". This is good, usually, since it lets the
participants of the newsgroup hash out the details, or even whether the
proposal is a good idea. It doesn't always happen, however. 

	The formal notification that there is discussion about a change
comes in a posting called a "Request For Discussion" (RFD). This is a
posting made to every group that is affected by the proposed change,
which also appears in news.groups and news.announce.newgroups. The RFD
opens the discussion up to the entire net and to the news administrators
(admins).

	Because it is possible for an RFD to cover several groups,
especially for a reorganization, it is not always possible for it to
contain an explicit Subject line referring to your group. The fact that
it was posted to your group is an indication that somebody felt that the
proposal affected your group. It may simply be creating a new group that
will funnel some discussion out of your group, but it may also ask for a
a name change. 

	This is important: IF you care about the process of USENET (as
opposed to just "I want to read about X"), then READ THE RFD when it
comes by. Do NOT decide whether to read it based on the Subject line.
If there is a list of proposals, read the entire list. Only then should
you decide whether or not you are interested in this RFD.

	Reread the preceeding paragraph.

	Like I said, the RFD starts the formal process. At that point,
all discussion of the change moves to the newsgroup news.groups.

--> "Why can't I talk about the change in MY group?"

	Generally, newsgroup changes don't matter to most of the readers
of a group. Prior to the RFD, the only participants in the discussion
will probably be readers of the group. After the RFD is issued, however,
the discussion will expand to anyone on the net who is interested.
Carrying the discussion in your newsgroup will only serve to annoy
those who don't care, and will usually result in a "take it to
news.groups" flamewar.

	A second reason is that discussion of new newsgroups needs to
involve the news admins, who probably don't read your newsgroup.

--> "Why should admins be involved?"

	There is one answer to that question: admins control USENET.
Admins are the ones who create new groups, they delete old ones, and
they have to deal with the people who ask "where did group Y go?".
Before they make these changes, they want to have some certainty that
the changes are desired, that they make sense, and that the name(s)
proposed are reasonable. They do this in two ways: they participate in
the discussion and they watch the vote.

--> "My newsgroup is too noisy, I won't see an RFD!"

	If you want to make sure that you keep abreast of all the
proposals, read news.announce.newgroups. This is a very low volume
newsgroup designed for keeping people up-to-date on the process;
reporting RFD's, CFV's (more later on these), and results.

	News.announce.newsgroups is also a convenient way to keep track
of proposals for new newsgroups that you might like to read.

	Here's a hint: if your group is that noisy, it is ripe for a
change; probably a split into two groups. Keep an eye out for an RFD.

--> "Ok, I see an RFD I am interested in, what now?"

	Step 1: subscribe to news.groups. That is where the discussion
will take place. 

	Step 2: discuss the proposal in news.groups. 

	That is all it takes to participate in the discussion. If anyone
asks to see your "USENET Driver's License", tell him to ... well, ignore
him.

	The discussion phase of the process can last for up to 30 days.
It doesn't need to; it can end earlier. Sometime towards the end of the
30 days, the proposals will have been clarified and a vote taker
selected. Then comes the next step.

--> "I saw one RFD, and a week later there is another. What gives?"

	RFD's are not chiseled in stone. Based on the discussion, they
may change. Drastically. Radically. A whole bunch.

	If you see an RFD, read it. The RFD that you didn't care about
last week may have mutated into something you hate today. Don't decide
based on the Subject: of an RFD whether it applies to you or not. Read
it and THEN decide.

	Reread the preceeding paragraph.

--> "I don't see many regular readers of my newsgroup talking about this."

	This can be for several reasons. Maybe they don't care. 

	They might not have read this document, and thus they might
have missed the RFD. You are free to comment in your newsgroup that
there is a discussion going on in news.groups and HEY! wakeup everybody.
Don't do this more than once or twice, however, or you will annoy those
who really don't care. As a friendly gesture to those who don't know
that news.groups is the proper place for discussion, you should set the
Followup-To: line in your posting to "news.groups".

--> "What is the next step?"

	The next step in the process is the "Call For Votes" (CFV).
This is the formal request for anyone who is interested to vote on the
proposal(s). The CFV will be posted to all the same groups that the RFD
was, so if you didn't care about discussing the proposal but you do
want to vote, watch for the CFV.

	This is important: if you are reading a group, and you see an
article with "CFV" in it, read it. You might have missed the RFD, or
you might have joined after the RFD was posted, or the RFD might have
been lost in transmission. The RFD might have changed. 

	The CFV Subject: won't necessarily mention your newsgroup, for
the same reason that the RFD won't, so DO NOT decide whether to read
the CFV based on its subject. The fact that it was posted to your
newsgroup means it has something to do with your newsgroup. Read the
CFV to see what groups it covers. Only THEN should you decide to skip
it.

	Reread the preceeding paragraph.

	CFVs are also posted to news.announce.newgroups.

--> "I saw an RFD 2 months ago, but I haven't seen a CFV. Why not?"

	Were you looking closely? :-)

	Seriously, there might not have been a CFV. The posting of an
RFD does not mean that there will be a vote, just that there will be
discussion.  It is possible that the discussion phase convinced the
proponents of the RFD that no change was necessary.

--> "How do I vote?"

	Read the CFV. It will contain explicit instructions on where to
send email to register your vote. Note that ONLY EMAILed votes count.
DO NOT post your vote, it won't count.

	Once you have voted, you may receive an acknowledgement (ACK)
from the vote taker or his software. Read it. It may say that the vote
wasn't understood. If so, correct the problem and vote again. As more
votes are being held with automated vote counting software, this
automatic ACK is being used more often.

	If you do not get an acknowledgment, then you will probably see
an acknowledgement in an article with the Subject: 2nd CFV and Ack ....
This article generally comes out halfway through the voting period, but
is not required to contain the acknowledgements.

	Mail systems are not perfect. The act of sending email does not
guarantee receipt by the vote taker. The mail may dissappear without a
trace. You may not get a bounce message. The only way of knowing that
your vote got through is if you get a reply saying your vote got
through.

	If you have some doubt about whether your vote got through, send
mail to the vote taker and ask. It is up to YOU to get the vote to HIM.
He doesn't have mental telepathy (well, maybe he does but don't count on
it) and can't tell that you voted unless he gets your vote.

	ONLY if you have REAL TROUBLE getting your vote to the vote
taker, AND you have asked the system administrator at your own site for
help, should you post something to news.group saying you are having
trouble.  Don't post your vote, just the fact that you need help
getting through.  And ONLY after asking for help locally.

--> "I voted, can I ask others to vote?"

	You can ask anyone you want to vote. The only restriction on who
can speak during a vote is on the vote taker. You can post messages to
your newsgroup telling people about the vote. 

--> "The vote ended today, where are the results?"

	The results of the vote are checked for duplicate or obviously
bogus votes, then tallied and sent to the moderator of
news.announce.newgroups. He will post the results after a modicum of
review. This may take several days, or longer if he is out of town.

	Eventually, the results will appear in news.groups,
news.announce.newgroups, and anywhere the CFV was posted originally.
(If the CFV is reposted by a user to other groups, they will not receive
the result notification.) This starts the next step in the process.

--> "What is the next step?"

	A lot of yelling and screaming. :-)

	Actually, the next step in the process is the 5 day
verification delay. The vote result contains a list of everyone who
voted and how they voted. Look for your vote there. 

	If your vote is recorded incorrectly, send mail to the vote taker
and post something to news.groups. If your vote is missing, and you have
an ACK for it, do the same. If your vote is missing, and you don't have
some proof that it got through, there isn't much you can do. You can say
that your vote wasn't counted, but lacking proof that it got through it
probably won't ever be counted. Like I said, the responsibility for
getting the vote to the vote taker is YOURS, not his.

--> "The vote passed, what happens next?"

	If there are no irregularities in the voting process, the changes
will be started following the 5 day delay. For group creation, a
newgroup message will be issued, and admins will create the group.

	For a renaming, a newgroup message creating the group under the
new name will appear very soon. After a few months, an rmgroup (delete
group) message will be sent, and the old group will go away. Your admin
will probably create the new group right away, and redirect the old
group to the new one so you don't lose messages.

	At this point, there really isn't anything you, as a user, need
to do. If you are really interested in the changes, you might mail a
note to your admin asking him to look for the control messages that
announce the actual group creation.

--> "The vote didn't pass. What now?"

	Well, as far as admins are concerned, nothing. They won't create
any new groups.

	Users have two options. Those who proposed the idea in the
first place may decide to try again. They may still think the change
is a good idea. When they lose a vote, though, they must wait 6 months
before bringing the idea up as an RFD again. Keep an eye out for RFD's,
though, since a different proposal may arise in the interim.

--> "There was a lot of yelling and screaming. The vote passed but some
--> admins aren't creating the group. I'm confused. Doesn't a passing vote
--> mean that a group is created?"

	Well, sort of. 

	Admins run USENET. The vote is a method that they use to decide
whether a group should be created. If some of them think that the vote
was bogus they may decide not to honor it. There isn't a lot that you
can do to force them to honor a vote they didn't like. That is why it is
A Good Thing for a vote to follow not only the letter of the guidelines,
but the precedent of earlier votes. 

--> "How do _I_ start the newsgroup creation process?"

	Are you sure you want to? (That is a serious question.)

	Read news.groups for a year. Watch how other people do it. Look
for the votes that don't have a lot of yelling and screaming about them
and remember what they did. Remember what the yelling and screaming was
about and DON'T do that.

	Read the guidelines for newsgroup creation in
	news.announce.newusers.

	Then ask someone who has done it for help.

--> "How will I remember all of this?"

	You aren't expected to. Just remember the points from the
summary all the way at the top of this article and you will be ok.

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