From: b5249-23@mathcs.sjsu.edu (Kurt Stocklmeir)
Subject: College Justice
Organization: San Jose State University - Math/CS Dept.
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 01:02:05 GMT

Since you are talking about justice at colleges.  Old Dominion University
in Norfolk, Va. has many extreme problems in both the Honor Council and
the Misconduct committee.  An example which is an average case is 3 students in
the same class last year were thrown out of school because they copied
a chart out of a book for a homework problem.  The chart was the answer
to the homework problem.  They were honest third year students.  But
they all got thrown out for cheating.

I knew for years many students on both the Honor Council and Misconduct
Committee.  They were the type of people that you did not want in those
groups.  Kind of reminded me of people trying to get into the SS in old
Germany.  The were nothing more than a lynch mob and executed 100 % of
all accused students.  They threw 100 % of all students out for anything,
innocent and guilty.

The reason why most of the students got into the groups was because they wanted
jobs at O.D.U.  The got to know the people at the top of O.D.U. while in these
groups and when they applied for a job, they tended to get it.  Also many of
the teachers who wanted to get a permanent job at O.D.U. got into the
teacher's senate and the Misconduct Committee.  When it came time to get a
permanent job or be fired depending on the Chairman of the department, the
teachers would ask for a reference from the people at the top of O.D.U.
If the top people suggested to the Chairman to give a permanent job, they
tended to do it.

Nobody would do anything about it.  For example the students in charge of
the O.D.U. newspaper and student senate did not ever make any waves and
covered things up.  They did that to get certain things from the people at
top of O.D.U, like jobs at O.D.U. from Sept. to May, summer jobs, jobs
after they got degrees, got into graduate school with a 2.0 average, etc.

These students in the Honor Council and Misconduct Committee
1.  executed all students, innocent and guilty
2.  some were being paid by state of Va. to represent the students like in
    the student senate
3.  got extra jobs
4.  took bribes to not expose certain things going on

There was also a big question about how honest the teachers on the Misconduct
Committee were besides being the lynch mob type.  Some of them wanted
permanent jobs and when the people at the top of O.D.U. held hearings for the
accused students, in general it was to try to throw them out, since they
did not give hearing to people who they believed were innocent.  If the
teachers did not execute at least most of the students if not all, I do not
think the people at the top of O.D.U. would have liked it.

Of course there was the joke about getting witnesses to the hearing.
O.D.U. stated that they could not force any witnesses to a Misconduct
hearing for either side.  But when the people at the top of O.D.U. asked
an employee like a teacher to give evidence they did it or they could have
been fired.  Also when the top people asked another student to be a witness
at a hearing I think without proof that they were afraid to say no they
would not.  For example a teacher asks a student in a class to go to a
hearing because O.D.U. wants it.  I do not think to many students said
no they would not.  But when it came to the witnesses of the accused
student, other students, teachers, etc. avoided the person like they
had a disease.  No student or teacher was going to lose their head for
the accused student.  Some of these cases needed to be covered up by
O.D.U., like when some students were beaten up by O.D.U. police for
nothing, some students were arrested by O.D.U. police for nothing, and
some students were harrested.  There is a large file case of complaints
against O.D.U. police, with Capt. Shoemaker moving to Flordia, I think
at some Flordia college.  There were several cases when for some reason a
teacher got mad at a student in front of other students and called the student
a name and started screaming at the person, in defense the student screamed
back, the teacher called O.D.U. police, O.D.U. police told the students to do
what they were told like stop causing trouble, keep quiet, etc. or they would
be arrested, with the whole mess going to the Misconduct hearing, with 100 %
of the students being thrown out.  I do not believe it, but 1 person on the
Honor Council told me that some but not all students who checked books out of
the library and lost them were accused of trying to steal the book and thrown
out.

The innocent students that were thrown out did not have any money to
get a lawyer to sue O.D.U.
1.  many took out loans that they could not pay back
2.  could not get a good job
3.  could not get into another school without starting all over

There was something called an appeal.  But I heard the students after
getting thrown out got an answer 2 years later.  Almost all were rejected.
The cases that did get an appeal went back to the same people or same kind
of people who threw them out to start with.

There were more jokes like 1 of the people at the top of O.D.U. who was
married and who was associated with punishing students was caught in
a closet having sex with a student, but the whole thing was kept quiet.

There is not any justice.
                          Kurt


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