HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 01:27:52 EDT
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

apb@world.std.com (Al Beecy) writes:

>Mensa (nationally and locally) is run by volunteers. Contrary to popular
>belief, Mensa volunteers also have other demands on their time. Now
>you tell us that we should "quantify the reasons, determine solutions &
>implement them." You ask if it isn't worht the effort. You state in a
>previous post that it isn't worth your effort, but seem to think that it
>should be worth ours.
>
>As a member, when I want some new activity/program that will require extra
>work, I volunteer to help do the work. 
>
>As one of the volunteers who works my ass off for this organization, it
>annoys me to no end to have a steady stream of people "suggesting" things
>and saying in the same breath that their time is too valuabule to do
>anything about it, but implying that mine isn't.

Also, finding out if people are willing to volunteer to help solve the
problem helps guage how serious the complainers are.  I, too, get all sorts
of "advice" and "projects" thrown upon me by people who just seem to enjoy
the faux power trip of thinking they're really guiding the organization.

In our local newsletter, I openly admit that inside Boston Mensa we have a
Secret Clique that controls all that's published, scheduled or even fed to
people at our RGs.  The people in this Secret Cabal have virually absolute
power as to what's done within Boston Mensa.  Very few people outside the
Cabal have any say whatsoever (but on rare occassion we might toy with the
idea of listening to them...)

How to people get into the Boston Mensa Secret Cabal?  They volunteer to
do something!
                                                 - John Cooley
                                                   Secret Cabal Leader
                                                   Boston Mensa

 ==========================================================================
       John Cooley              Zappa as a waste management engineer: 
                                  "Hey, there, Brother!  Whatcha
    jcooley@miracle.com            doing with that Cosmic Debris?"  

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: jones@sj.ate.slb.com (Clark Jones)
Subject: Re: Jealousy (from the pages of omni....)
Organization: Schlumberger ATE, San Jose
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 19:21:55 GMT

Geoff Mccaughan (Geoff@equinox.gen.nz) wrote:
: 
: Mensa does not insist you pass there criteria. Unless, of course you
: actually wished to join. 

As an interesting (and possibly relevant) sidelight, some 11 years ago when
I first joined Mensa, I dated a gal (a couple of times) who had taken some
13 different IQ tests before getting a score high enough to join.  (Her
reason for taking them was to join.)  I'm not sure what it proves, other
than possibly the fallibility (or at least variability) of IQ tests...

--
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed above are mine and not those of Schlumberger
because they are NOT covered by the patent agreement!

Alternate reply path:  jones@sjs.sj.ate.slb.com
Phone: (602) 345-3638
Snail: Clark Jones, Schlumberger Technologies, 7855 S. River Pkwy #116, Tempe,
       AZ  85284-1825
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: kumar@ug.cs.dal.ca (kumar yelubandi)
Subject: Re : Jealousy (from the pages of omni....)
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 17:53:35 GMT

>From: Stefan Farestam <farestam@cerfacs.fr>
>In article <C19z27.Dnv@cs.dal.ca>, kumar@ug.cs.dal.ca (kumar yelubandi) writes:

>>Conclusion:  The probability that the most intelligent
>>	     human being is NOT a member of MENSA is far
>>	     greater than the probability he/she is.
>>	     (of course, only if such a person exists at all)

>  ...and Santa Monica Track Club has what, 50 members? Gee, I bet chances
>  are negligibly small that they might have some very good runners (You
>  know, like olympic medal winners). Yep, that can decidedly not be the
>  case.

>   /Stefan


		The conclusion is only valid for the premise offered.  
	A conclusion without a premise is as incomplete as a premise 
	without a conclusion.  If you want to debate my conclusion...
	you should at least have the courtesy to include my premise, 
	ie. the arithmetic I presented.

	However, if you want to engage in freebase discussion, the
	Santa Monica Track Club is a training center for the body;
	where athletes transform their innate physical abilities into
	competitions of speed, endurance, and strength.  Some even
	come back with olympic medals...so you are right, here.
 	
	The charter of MENSA, to the best of my limited awareness, 
	is not substantially supportive of any claim it is a training 
	centre for the mind.  MENSA's main function appears to be
	one of bringing people 'of sufficient attitude' and 'aptitude'
	together...ie. so they can frolic in an atmosphere of maximum
	mutual grandeur (like the Order of Water Buffaloes in the town 
	of Bedrock).  
	
	Of course, you might want to change the charter and make MENSA
	a training centre for those who represent America's best chance
	for winning the World Chess Championship, the Nobel prize, the
	Tchaikovsky Piano Competition, etc.  I'm afraid your comparison
	falls short.

		Kumar
	
ps:	...and if you are resistant to that argument, consider that 
	an athlete's speed may be timed accurately to 1/100th of a
	second.  How accurately can you measure one's intelligence?
	(This question as long as it is unresolved, is undoubtedly, 
	MENSA's Achilles' Heel when it claims it is NOT an elitist
	fabric sewn together by artificial thread) 

-- 
                                ********************************************
   Kumar Yelubandi               **  A wise man learns more from a fool  **
   (good wines = good times!)    **  than vice versa...or so they say    **
   ...in the year 2525...        **           -  Drink up -              ** 
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:07:26 GMT

In article 190193112508@192.35.50.131, mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
>In article <1993Jan19.031637.3739@eagercon.com>, eager@eagercon.com
>(Michael J. Eager) wrote:
>
>> Al, try to stop confusing the local groups with the national organization.
>> The locals get ~$6/member/year.  They generally use it well.  The national
>> gets ~$39/member/year and from all appearances, returns little of value to
>> the membership.
>
>Mike, National does not get $39 per member per year.  It gets at most, $33
>per member per year because it pays $6 to the local groups.  If you factor
>out what national pays to international (I forget the percentage, but I
>believe that it comes to $8 per member per year.), national's "cut" is $25
>per member per year.

Old math vs. new math.  New dues = $45.  Local groups get ~$6.  This leaves
$39 for national.  From that National pays for lots of things, incl. international.

Even if you use old math, the major benefit I get from National for my $25 seems
to be the Bulletin.  It appears intentionally not directed to members.  Would I pay 
$20+ for the Bulletin?  No.  Would you?


---
Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: graeme@drummond.demon.co.uk (Graeme Hillary)
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Reply-To: graeme@drummond.demon.co.uk
Distribution: world
X-Mailer: cppnews $Revision: 1.20 $
Organization: not
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 20:45:39 +0000

In article <22Jan93004534@miracle.com> jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley) writes:
> graeme@drummond.demon.co.uk (Graeme Hillary) writes:
> 
> >I'd like to see that kind of thing happen over here.  I've been a member
> >for almost two years but have neglected to attend anything yet because I
> >imagine that it would all be rather cosy and closed.  I also feel (wrongly
> >probably) that I would have to display my intelligence and I don't feel
> >particularly intelligent.
> >
> >If MENSA UK would arrange some kind of new member's meeting in Scotland
> >I'd very gladly attend.  At present I feel like an "invisble" member.
> 
> 
> Stop your whining for all the world to read and go to some God damned Mensa
> meetings!  (If you can't guess, I'm a little tired of people who haven't
> gone to a bloody event posting "why I hate Mensa" or "why I'm afraid to
> go to a meeting"!  You passed the test, now go to an event!)
> 

Well, pardon me for opening my mouth!  Qualifying for MENSA does not 
necessarily mean that you also posess bags of confidence and self-assurance.
Maybe such people are "afraid to go to meetings" in case they run into
somebody as tetchy as you.

I wasn't whining, merely making an observation on what it can be like for
*some* new members. I haven't been reading this group for long so I wasn't
aware of how many "afraid to go to meetings" messages you may have had to
read.  BTW I have just recently signed up for my first meeting, prior to 
reading this.

===Graeme


Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: graeme@drummond.demon.co.uk (Graeme Hillary)
Subject: Re: Special Rights?
Reply-To: graeme@drummond.demon.co.uk
Distribution: world
X-Mailer: cppnews $Revision: 1.20 $
Organization: not
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 20:54:43 +0000

In article <1993Jan22.215350.3482@ryn.mro4.dec.com> shapiro@cfsctc.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro) writes:
> 
> >did little to oppose it, in contrast to Oregon, where virtually all of the
> >politicians opposed an anti-gay initiative.
> 
> NOT ANTI-GAY, ANTI-GIVING-SPECIAL-RIGHTS-FOR-GAYS-THAT-HETEROS-DONT-HAVE
> 

Such as....?  Please enlighten me.

===Graeme
From: jcooley@world.std.com (John Cooley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Gay Mensans?
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:09:17 GMT
Organization: The E-mail Synopsys Users Group (ESNUG)

In article <zlsiida.854@fs1.mcc.ac.uk> zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) writes:
>In article <93023.144437MORIARTY@NDSUVM1.BITNET> MORIARTY@NDSUVM1.BITNET writes:
>
>>I betthat got your attention.  :-)  The title speaks for itself
>>so where do we go from here?
>>     Virtually,     Michael
>
>where do we go from here?  Is this a request for a date or what?
>
>I wonder if this guy is 'just interested' or a gay-basher or what?
>
>Alan Turing was gay: therefore I reckon all anti-gays should be barred from 
>using computers......
>
>I wonder if he can guess MY sexual orientation from this post?


    What?  You prefer to have sex with computers?  ( login, logout, RAM,...)

                                           - John "I like sheep myself" Cooley
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: graeme@drummond.demon.co.uk (Graeme Hillary)
Subject: Re: Picky definitions (was: IQ Negatives)
Reply-To: graeme@drummond.demon.co.uk
Distribution: world
X-Mailer: cppnews $Revision: 1.20 $
Organization: not
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 23:04:10 +0000

In article <1993Jan25.195642.23979@eagercon.com> eager@eagercon.com writes:
> In article 727700349snx@drummond.demon.co.uk, graeme@drummond.demon.co.uk (Graeme Hillary) writes:
> >I hate it when people use England when they mean the UK.
> 
> But UKish Royal Family sounds so, well, ukish.
> 
> You can say British Royal Family, since Britain consists of England, Wales, Scotland,
> Ireland, and assorted smaller islands.

Hate to be picky, but Britain is *only* Scotland, England and Wales.  I refer
here to my passport which then describes UK as :

United Kingdom of Great Britain *AND* Northern Ireland.

Normally, Britain *is* accepted instead for sake of simplicity - not ideal,
but preferable to referring to the whole lot as England!

Who said that the British have an over-inflated sense of their own 
importance?!  :-)  After all, how much, exactly, do *I* know about the various
states of America and where they are placed in relation to each other?


===Graeme :-}
From: kyle@wendy-fate.UU.NET (Kyle Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Something in us going wrong ...
Date: 22 Jan 1993 10:33:33 -0500
Organization: UUNET Communications
NNTP-Posting-Host: wendy-fate.uu.net

not@mvs.ais.com (N O Tai) writes:
 > I quite agree that Scott's behavior at times has been
 > reprehensible, but may I beg you to take into account that it
 > was a mistake and make allowances for his youth?  Besides
 > which, he regrets it deeply and entreats your forgiveness.

Having been around in the early days of rec.org.mensa and
experiencing months of Tai's net.logorrhea I have to say that I
would waste neither reason nor mercy nor forgiveness on him.
What Tai needs is his own universe and with luck he'll find his
way to it.
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:26:44 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <1993Jan22.184402.27547@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
blevenso@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bryan D Levenson) wrote:
> 

> That's why I'm here! Bum Ba Ba Bum! Meet one of Columbus Mensa's members - me!
> That's right folks - I found Compu$erve's forum and now I've found yours!
> HA HA HA HAAA! IT`S PARTY TIME! (Egos must be checked at the door. Sorry.)

Hi Bryan!  Now all that's left is for you to find the Fidonet Mensa echo.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                         Boycott Colorado                            |
|     These are my opinions, and not necessarily any one else's.      |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Organization: The Cat Factory
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:59:43 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.060903.17502@cbnewse.cb.att.com> gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:

}The rancor is rather out of character, buddy, but I understand the
}pressures of the financial world.

~sigh~

Guilty with an explanation.  I plead a nasty case of flu and some other
health problems recently returned to haunt me.  They've made me seriously
grumpy of late.

Also, someone recently flamed me in e-mail for not including the text of
the mail they'd just sent me (minutes previously) in my reply.  I found
that irritating (suffering fools gladly is not among my virtues even in
the best of times).  I guess some of it spilled over here.

Apologies all around.  I'll try to keep a lid on it.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                "If you can't stand solitude,
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483  perhaps others find you boring
Santa Monica, CA  90405                        as well."  -- Mark Twain
From: wombat@nfinit.enet.dec.com (Christopher M. Conway)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Jealousy (was Re: From the pages of Omni...)
Date: 22 Jan 93 17:45:54 GMT
Reply-To: wombat@nfinit.enet.dec.com
Organization: Prickly Wombat Enterprises


While I'm sure that there is some aspect of jealousy to the intense hatred
of intelligent people (not just Mensa people), I don't think that's all of
it.

My wife ( also a Mensa member; in fact, we met through Mensa B^{)> ) and I
have discussed this a great deal, having both had miserable childhoods due
to intolerance of our intelligence. We've come to the conclusion that it's
really more *fear* than jealousy that's at work. We can all *conceive* of
the idea of running as fast as Carl Lewis or riding a bike as well as
Greg LeMond, and so on; there's merely a quantitative difference there, not
really a qualitative. Of course, I'm ignoring training and talent here, but
the point is not that anyone can win the Tour de France; it's that we all
can *conceive* of it and know how it feels.

Not so with intelligence. An intelligent person is simply *incomprehensible*
to people of lower intellect. They can't conceive of what it's like to
be intelligent, because there is a qualitative difference in the way the
intelligent interact with the world around them. Intelligent people are,
in effect, alien to the average person. And what people can't understand,
they fear.

--
In no way should any statement, question, or other transferral of
information in this post be construed in any way as being an
official communication of Digital Equipment Corporation.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher M. Conway		| U*ix and C Guru
wombat@nfinit.enet.dec.com      | Legalize Freedom!
wombat@juliet.ll.mit.edu        | Resist the Tyrants in Washington, D.C.!
nfinit::wombat (DECnet internal)| (505)761-2413 DTN 552-2413
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: etbeteille@happy.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: Colorado (was Membership Renewal ??)
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: 27 Jan 93 11:38:59 MDT

mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
>
> People living outside of Colorado have no effective access to the
> legislators.  Further, it was the people of the state who approved the
> constitutional amendment after it had passed in the legislature. ...
                                 ^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^

Just so Mike and all the other Mensans know, the legislature had *nothing*
to do with Amendment 2, the anti-affirmative action for gays amendment.
It was placed on the ballot through a petition drive, supported in large
part by, as has been noted by others here, certain business and "Christian"
organiations.  Citizens signed those petitions and put A2 into action.

> If the
> state is hurt financially, perhaps it will reverse itself.  Last year, it
> was homosexuals; who will it be next year:  Jews, women, Hispanics, Asians,
> Blacks?

Why not all of them?  And white people, too .. why should anyone be able
to make a claim against a landlord or employer and force them to do some-
thing?  Americans have certain inalienable rights, none of which include
a good job or an apartment, no matter what your sexual orientation, race,
religion, gender or intellect.... 
	You get what you earn, not what you *need*.


etb
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Non-flaming dialogue wanted
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:24:29 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.185813.8537@eagercon.com> eager@eagercon.com writes:
>In article 24291@vela.acs.oakland.edu, atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Cardinal Ximenez) writes:
>>  As I understand it, Mensa is formed for the promulgation of intelligent
>>discussion.  The problem is that what IQ tests are measuring is not the 
>>capacity to hold intelligent discussion, but a vague and really unclear
>>quality that seems to relate to social success, academic achievement,
>>processing speed, and memory capacity.  By making tests a requirement, you

[....]

Isn't there a way we could summarize the net.defend.mensa articles
that respond to this same, tired question, and put it in the FAQ?

Aren't there thousands of groups on this planet that spew the
"X-group"-pride and tout the wonderful values of this and don't have
to constantly defend themselves?  And aren't many of them based on
race, religion, creed, home, tallness, handedness, and preferences?

Just wondering.

G("Picketing My Friend's Bar Mitzvah")MS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: hloedolf@cs.sun.ac.za (Hans Loedolff)
Subject: Re: Mensa Japan
Reply-To: hloedolf@cs.sun.ac.za
Organization: Stellenbosch University, South Africa
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 11:43:31 GMT

Hans Loedolff (hloedolf@cs.sun.ac.za) wrote:
> Forgive me if this has already been discussed at length in this
> newsgroup, but what happened to Mensa Japan?

> -Hans

It must have been something pretty terible if nobody
wants to reply...


Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: jcooley@world.std.com (John Cooley)
Subject: Re: Quest Test
Organization: The E-mail Synopsys Users Group (ESNUG)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:41:24 GMT

clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long) writes:
>
>Did anyone else do this and mail it in before the January 8th
>deadline?  What did everyone think of it?


OK, I'll bite.   What was the "Quest Test" ?

-John

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Subject: MODERATE R.O.M.? (was Re: Blasphemy?)
Originator: cjdcosta@zepplin.ece.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 09:55:12 GMT



>This newsgroup, being unmoderated, is a party without a bouncer.
>
>GMS

Too true. 

How many people would be interested in a moderated version of R.O.M? 
I would, for one.
From: jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 01:07:52 EDT
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants


eager@eagercon.com writes:

>Many people, myself included, have complained that Interloc creates two classes
>of Mensa members: the ins and the outs.

If you feel this way, you should write an article to discuss this internal
political issue for publication in Interloc!  (hee hee hee!)

The real way you can solve your "out" feeling is to write National and ask
for a free subscription to Interloc.  Please don't shove the National
political crap down everyone's throats in the Bulletin -- it's only make it
duller.  (We politicos tend to forget that there's a vast majority of people
out there who could care less about our internal politics...)

-John


 ==========================================================================
       John Cooley              Zappa as a waste management engineer: 
                                  "Hey, there, Brother!  Whatcha
    jcooley@miracle.com            doing with that Cosmic Debris?"  

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 02:06:53 GMT

In article 22Jan93012434@miracle.com, jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley) writes:
>mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
>
>>No quoting is usually as bad as excessive quoting.
>>
>>--Mike
>
>I disagree.  Most of us use subject readers that make quotes unneccessary.

Have you really done a survey?  Or is this just projection?


---
Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:21:39 GMT

In article 4383@ttinews.tti.com, hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
>In article <1993Jan16.030506.17154@eagercon.com> eager@eagercon.com writes:
>
>}If you don't give any reference to a previous message, and you don't
>}quote any message, all we get is some disjointed half of a conversation.
>
>[Further pompous whining deleted.]
>
>I would expect a Mensan to have a better memory.  I had no problems
>following Ms. Cooper's comments.  If your memory is inadequate, I suggest
>you learn to use a threaded newsreader with reverse search capability or
>start archiving the threads you're following.  I, at least, am not going
>to waste net bandwidth just to cater to your handicaps.


But I notice that you edit and quote my message in your response.  Thanks.


---
Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141