From: Donna.D'Iorio@f7022.n124.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Donna D'Iorio)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: The Fathers
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:28:06 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:124/7022 - MAXUS World H, Dallas TX


    In response to Tom Abrecht:
TA>From: tom@tredysvr.Tredydev.Unisys.COM (Tom Albrecht)
TA>Date: 24 Aug 92 19:31:34 GMT
TA>Organization: Unisys, Applied Technology, Malvern, PA
TA>Message-ID: <2467@tredysvr.Tredydev.Unisys.COM>

TA>Are you suggesting Luther supported the theories of modern Messianic
TA>Jews?  This is curious.  Some of your friends in this forum have
TA>been telling us for some time that Luther was one of the most rabid
TA>anti-Semites the world has ever seen.   Was this part of the "climb
TA>toward light?"

    Nope, that's not what I'm suggesting at all. Luther was indeed a
rabid anti-semite.  How could you possibly read his fits of rage
against the Jewish people in any other way?
    Nevertheless, where the deep stupor of spiritual darkness had
hovered over the Church for 1,000 years, Luther did manage to break
through the darkness with a major restoration of light.  While he
continued to embrace the traditional errors of Augustine theology
concerning Israel, he at least *did* perceive the scriptural truth
regarding "justification by faith."  Luther demonstrated great courage
in bringing that revelation forth, but the Reformation he kicked off in
the church wasn't a total restoration--it was *only* a beginning.
    For his courage in standing by "justification by faith", I
give Luther honor.  For his vituperation against the Jewish people, I
am not only personally disgusted, but also consider it great disgrace
to the corporate body of Messiah to this day.  I can no more dismiss
Luther's good contributions to Christianity as "worthless" any more
than I can sweep the disgrace of his theology under the carpet. That has
been the tactic long enough.  It might be uncomfortable for Christianity
to own up to, but  "He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but
whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy." Prov 28:13

TA>>    It is not a "dishonoring view of the Holy Spirit" to open your eyes
TA>>to the fact that these men strayed from the path of apostolic teaching
TA>>in several key areas, such as the true relationship of the Church to
TA>>Israel, or why the loss of the gifts of the Spirit. ...
TA>
TA>Perhaps you can produce some history to support you theory.

    That is exactly what I am doing and will continue to do, Tom.  Keep
reading.  After all, whole books are devoted to the subject, so it is
not likely that I will be able to lay out the full body of evidence in
a couple of posts.

TA>If you care to quote what I've said and show how it SPECIFICALLY
TA>contradicts what the Bible teaches, please feel free to do so.  Otherwis
TA>you can keep your ill-informed comments to yourself.

    Nope.  I'm not playing according to your rulings.  As long as the
discussion was 'Tom on the offense, MJs on the defense,' you were
perfectly happy.  Now that you find yourself in the defensive position
you make the discovery that it doesn't feel so good.  I will speak into
this discussion as I see fit....just the same as you.
    Donna D'Iorio





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