HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tony@yabba.ssc.gov (Tony D. Massing)
Subject: Re: public domain software
Organization: Mail news gateway
Distribution: world
Keywords: 
Reply-To: alt-sys-intergraph@ingr.com
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 17:08:54 CST

From David Silverman                   Jan 11 '93 at 6:51 pm -480
Date: 11 Jan 1993 18:51:58 -0800
Subject: Re: public domain software
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Reply-To: alt-sys-intergraph@ingr.com


> What PD programs are available for the Intergraph workstations not
> running x-windows and where can I get them? Utilities and games would
> be nice to see.

Over the past few weeks a rather heated debate has been progressing over
the internet on a place to locate and post PD software.  As of yet your
best bet is to contact users directly or through this newsgroup.  Some of
us are working on alternatives for an FTP site.

Stay tuned...

_____________________________________________________________________________

Tony D. Massing, PE
CAE Applications Supervisor

Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory       Phone : (214) 708-1059
Conventional Construction Division              Fax   : (214) 708-4099
2550 Beckleymeade Avenue, MS-2011               Mail  : tony_massing@ssc.gov
Dallas, Texas  75237-3946
_____________________________________________________________________________
From: bmu@sbfdk.sbf.dk (Boerge Mueller)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.intergraph
Subject: Re: FTP Site for Intergraph
Date: 7 Jan 93 09:30:30 GMT
Organization: Great Belt ltd. Denmark

In article <1993Jan06.122239.15497@SPM> alt-sys-intergraph@ingr.com writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>I would support having an FTP Site for Intergraph.  In particular it would
>>be a good idea to open and have a useful resource of application and
>>technical notes as well as have program source viz MDL and PPL for users
>>who demand greater or productive use of the software systems.
>>
>>Shung-Hwee Bok
>>CAD/CAM Specialist
>>National University of Singapore
>>
>
>I agree, an anonymous ftp site for intergraph stuff would be a good idea.
>I would also like to see the MicroStation BBS, MDL source mirrored there
>as well....
>
This is a vital point to my opinion, there is a lot of god routines (MDL etc)
on Misty BBS in Europe and probably also at BSI BBS, only problem is
the cost of a 2400 baud connect from my country to those to BBS's. If we
had a FTP mirror site, life would be much easier
>
>
>how about it ingr ?
I'll dublicate this question
>
>
-- 
Boerge Mueller  (Project manager CAD & Technical information systems)
Phone  : +45 3393 5200 x 222       | I don't know what the          |
Company: Great Belt Lmtd.          |   managment's opinion          |
E-mail : bmu@sbf.dk                |     is/are/was/will be etc.etc.|
Newsgroups: alt.sys.intergraph
From: bob@sparkie.nrri.umn.edu (Robert I. Benett)
Subject: Re: 6.x baseline booting problems
Organization: MN/DOT
Distribution: world
Keywords: 
Reply-To: alt-sys-intergraph@ingr.com
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 11:23:13 CST


Cathrine,

I was hoping that what I'm seeing was a common problem that Intergraph was
"working on".  Anyway, here's my dates from one of the afflicted workstations.
All of our machines here are the same or very nearly the same.


me      Number    Date        Version     Title
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DELTOOLS  SS01040   13-JUL-1992 06.04.01.00 Delivery Tools
DSM       SS01203   14-JUL-1992 06.04.02.00 Distributed System Management
ELM       SS01149   25-MAR-1992 06.01.01.00 ELM Mail System
ENVIRON_S SS01073   29-MAY-1992 06.03.01.00 Clipper Graphics Shared Libraries
FORMS_S   SN01087   11-JUN-1992 02.00.02.35 I/Forms Runtime Package
GPIPE_S   SS01080   01-JUN-1992 06.03.02.00 Clipper Geometry Pipeline Shared Li
IDL       ST01008   31-JUL-1992 02.08.92.02 Intergraph Documentation List
IP_CNUC   SP01154   18-JUN-1992 06.03.03.02 IP/CNUC (Client Nucleus)
IP_IPLOT  SP01113   17-JUL-1992 06.03.04.01 IP/IPLOT (IGDS/InterPlot Interface)
IP_RASSUB SP01151   18-JUN-1992 06.03.03.01 IP/RasSub (Raster Submit)
I_LICENSE SS01257   17-APR-1992 06.01.00.02 Intergraph Network License Manager
I_NFM     SN01022   22-NOV-1991 02.03.00.08 I/Network File Manager
MENUBLD   SS01048   25-OCT-1990 04.02.03.00 Menu Builder
MICROCSL  SS01083   11-MAR-1992 04.00.04.06 MicroCSL
MSTATION  SG01005   16-JUL-1992 04.00.04.16 MicroStation 32
NAT       SS01007   08-JAN-1991 00.00.21.00 Network Administration Tool
NFS       SS01081   09-APR-1992 06.01.01.00 Network File System
NQS       SS01126   31-MAR-1992 06.01.00.03 Network Queuing System
REBUILD   SS01003   08-JUN-1992 06.03.03.00 Rebuild Floppies
RESOURCES SS01050   12-JUN-1992 06.03.12.00 Graphics Resources
RISCCU    SN01095   28-FEB-1991 02.01.03.00 RIS Client Support Package
SCREENMGR SS01045   10-JUN-1992 06.03.02.00 Screen Manager
SYSTEMV   SS01044   23-JUN-1992 06.03.02.01 System V 3.1 File Systems
TCPIP     SS01066   07-APR-1992 06.01.00.00 TCPIP
TOOLBOX   SS01132   23-FEB-1992 06.00.05.00 Set of various desk utilities
UNIXBOOT  SS01043   01-JUL-1992 06.04.01.00 System V 3.1 Boot Images
VT220     SS01049   01-JUN-1992 06.03.02.00 VT220 terminal emulation
VTOOLS    SS01198   01-APR-1992 06.01.02.00 Visual CLIX Interfaces
XNSINGR   SS01636   28-MAY-1992 06.03.00.02 Workstation Network Software
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Thanks.


bob
(218) 723-4914
From: kanya@ckgp.UUCP (Jim Kanya)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.intergraph
Subject: Public Domain Software for Intergraph (Was: Why no response from ...)
Summary: Systems Operations Sig 
Date: 9 Jan 93 14:42:51 GMT
Organization: CKGP Assoc. Inc. Birmingham, MI

First of all, an introduction.  I am Jim Kanya and I am the Vice Chairman
of the System Operations SIG for IGUG (formerly the Unix SIG).  

In article <C0JM72.op@nik.b30.ingr.com>, nik@nik.b30.ingr.com (Nik Simpson) writes:
> 	I believe the reason we do not offer an ftp site for Intergraph
> customers are:

We have had many discussions about this in the past and Intergraph has
refused to be the FTP site.  Their reasons were stated by Nik and I
tend to agree with the reasons.  We thought we found a customer willing to
be an FTP site at last spring's IGUG, but it never panned out.  

> 	If the user group is interested in providing a mechanism for
> distributing software we could provide large amounts of PD software on a
> no support basis similar to the XCONTRIB product.

At the Fall of 1992 IGUG, we had discussions about producing a CD-ROM of
public domain software.  I had two ideas on distribution.  The first was
to have have IGUG pay for the CD and present it to each user when they 
register at the conference.  This would give the user something tangible
to take back to the office.  The other idea is to sell the CD at the
conference.  

I am awaiting information from Intergraph's Chander Hall about pricing,
quantity and liability before I make a formal proposal to the IGUG board.
I do know that the HP User's group has a CD available and sells it for
$100.00 (US).  How many users would purchase a CD for this price?

The first release of the CD('s) would probably be made up of public
domain software that Intergraph has compiled for its internal use.  Later
of versions of the CD('s) would hopefully have customer donated software.

-- 
Thanks,
Jim Kanya               CKGP & Assoc. Inc.
(313) 642-7970          kanya%ckgp@uunet.UU.NET
Newsgroups: alt.sys.intergraph
From: nik@nik.b30.ingr.com (Nik Simpson)
Subject: Re: Intergraph as a better software company
Organization: Mail news gateway
Distribution: world
Keywords: 
Reply-To: alt-sys-intergraph@ingr.com
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1993 10:28:40 CST

>:
>Actually I heard about the SGI port and I think also the Alpha port.  I
>didn't know about the NT port.  Well here is what I have to say.  Like
>many users I am anticipating NT but NT has been delayed time and again.
>According to current status, it is unlikely that NT will even be ready
>before Q3 '93 (This is according to software vendors who have to work with
>advanced versions of NT and found that it is still unstable).  By the time
>NT is ported to other platforms and product marketing and pricing details
>are decided upon, it may be another quarter away ;-).
>
The release of Q3 '93 is misleading, do you mean July 1st or September
30th. There is a big difference. All the industry speculation suggests a late
Q2 early Q3 release for NT. BTW it seems reasonably stable for Beta release
on my PC.

>About Alpha, well let us just say that it is the only card DEC has left to
>play.  I wish them the best but I cannot wait forever to decide on a purchase.
>
>How about this : why not UNIX or even OSF/UNIX that DEC is working on on
>the Alpha, and why not a full HP port ?

You describe the problem perfectly with word "Port", every new flavor
of UNIX that is supported is a major headache. Despite the UNIX claims of
increased standardization most software suppliers have yet to see the benefits.
In contrast NT will provide a consisten operating environment accross all
supported platforms. Anybody who knows me and my background will no that
not defending UNIX doesn't come easy, my heart remains commited to UNIX,
my head says NT.

> You see, UNIX is still around.
>HP has had for something like 24 months now the proven leading
>price/performance machines now.  SPARC 10 is still not just yet.  At least
>of Alpha is out by Q2, OSF/UNIX should also be out because DEC engineers
>are working real hard on it.

And HP has yet another version of UNIX that will be OSF/1 AES
compliant real soon now ;-) In the meantime being the price-performance
leader is transitory, and depends on how you define price performance.
Intergraph would have a hard time aiming for the best price performance
platform all the time as it would require a complete change in direction
about once every 6 months.

>
>To be honest, I have been kept waiting since Q2 last year about the
>marketing and pricing of MDEM products on even the SPARC II.  Jesus, why
>so long or is it really because MDEM products on SPARC II are prioritised
>for the NAVSEA project only.
>
>Well I guessed I sounded like I was flaming but I am trying to factual and
>accurate.  Correct me (i.e. anyone) if I am wrong.

--
|----------------------------------------------------------------|
| Nik Simpson        Mail  :      nik@ingr.ingr.com 	           |
| Systems Software Consultant.    Intergraph Corporation         |
| In life a foolish prating knave				   |
|----------------------------------------------------------------|
Newsgroups: alt.sys.intergraph
From: silverma@aludra.usc.edu (David Silverman)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.intergraph
Subject: Re: public domain software
Date: 11 Jan 1993 18:51:58 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

What PD programs are available for the Intergraph workstations not 
running x-windows and where can I get them? Utilities and games would
be nice to see. 

Thanks.
Newsgroups: alt.sys.intergraph
From: kassel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ben Kassel)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.intergraph
Subject: Re: Public Domain Software for Intergraph (Was: Why no response from ...)
Date: 10 Jan 93 22:25:47 GMT
Reply-To: kassel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ben Kassel)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD


With respect to paying a nominal charge for a CD of goodies, I would be
willing to pay the fee, would it include application stuff also!  I also
understand the reluctance to provide the anon ftp site. As far as fixes
would be concerned, I am sure a post to this group would locate a fix,
if available.

ben

P.S.  Any I/EMS or I/VDS users out there?
-- 
       Ben Kassel  [kassel@oasys.dt.navy.mil]  |  CCCC AAAA DDD     222
	       David Taylor Model Basin        |  C    A  A D  D      2
	       Carderock, MD 20084-5000        |  C    AAAA D  D     2 
	            (301) 227-1355             |  CCCC A  A DDD     2222
Newsgroups: alt.sys.intergraph
From: engboksh@nuscc.nus.sg (BOK SHUNG HWEE (MR))
Subject: Intergraph as a better software company
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 08:03:24 GMT


Hello everyone

I am putting up this subject as a matter of interest for all who have
respect for Intergraph CAD/CAM software and who wish to see its commercial
availability on other machines.  I am currently referring to the
mechanical I/EMS based family as well as Microstation and
Microstation-based packages.  To my best knowledge both systems are good
technologically (EMS was probably *THE* first object-oriented CAD package
back in 1987).

In other not to be seen as over-flaming, I would say that currently users
have difficulty embracing the price/performance of Intergraph's Clipper
platforms as UNIX-based machines not just for CAD/CAM alone.  It may be
that Intergraph's applications are well tuned to the Clipper and can
perform equitably compared to other packages on other machines.  (We will
never really know about such comparisons anyway).

Without further ado, perhaps interested readers may like to help generate
a more detailed discussion on this subject.

Shung-Hwee Bok (again)
CAD/CAM Specialist
National University of Singapore

P.S.  This may be more related to general CAD discussion.  I haven't
cross-posted as yet anyway.
From: engboksh@nuscc.nus.sg (BOK SHUNG HWEE (MR))
Newsgroups: alt.sys.intergraph
Subject: Intergraph as a better software company
Date: 7 Jan 93 00:56:43 GMT
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4


In fact, I also suggest Intergraph or any  active Intergraph user help put
a IGUG repository together with the FTP site.

Well let's wait for some concrete response ....


Bok
CAD/CAM Specialist
National University of Singapore
Newsgroups: alt.sys.intergraph
From: Bhupinder Singh <bsingh@CERF.NET>
Subject: Re: Public Domain Software for Intergraph (Was: Why no response from ...)
Organization: Mail news gateway
Distribution: world
Keywords: 
Reply-To: alt-sys-intergraph@ingr.com
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1993 11:49:05 CST

>
>
>First of all, an introduction.  I am Jim Kanya and I am the Vice Chairman
>of the System Operations SIG for IGUG (formerly the Unix SIG).
>
>In article <C0JM72.op@nik.b30.ingr.com>, nik@nik.b30.ingr.com (Nik Simpson) writes:
>> 	I believe the reason we do not offer an ftp site for Intergraph
>> customers are:
>
>We have had many discussions about this in the past and Intergraph has
>refused to be the FTP site.  Their reasons were stated by Nik and I
>tend to agree with the reasons.  We thought we found a customer willing to
>be an FTP site at last spring's IGUG, but it never panned out.
>
I think too much is being made of this. A firewalled anon ftp site is
pretty trivial to set up. You might ask why I dont volunteer then ?
Two reasons
1- I think this is something that ingr should provide. It is a selling point
for them.

2- I am on a dialup access to the Internet :( :(

The reason that not many people will use it seems a trifle lame. With all
government,DOT's, defense contractors that Intergraph sells to on the internet
"If you build it they will come". How many customers even know there is
an alt.sys.intergraph ? Also many commercial sites I know of dont even carry
alt news groups. BTW is this alt newsgroup freely available at ingr ?

Selling PD CD's doesn't hack it at all. Turn arounds in getting patches, bug
fixes, new versions, exchanging trivial software all get interminably dragged
out, as well as is being a more expensive option.

IMHO these are the very things Intergraph should be doing to have a higher
visibility in the business.

Bhupinder "grep comp.sys | wc -l => 131" Singh
--
Bhupinder Singh				James M. Montgomery Engineers
Internet  - bsingh@cerf.net
MaBellnet - (818) 568-6107
Newsgroups: alt.sys.intergraph
From: tony@yabba.ssc.gov (Tony D. Massing)
Subject: FTP Site
Organization: Mail news gateway
Distribution: world
Keywords: 
Reply-To: alt-sys-intergraph@ingr.com
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:53:28 CST

In reference to the FTP Site and delivery of PD software on CD, I offer the
following:

1)	NO MORE CDs. I get 8 sets of 15 from IG each month for standard
delivery.  I don't need any more.

2)	The itea behind public domain is that it is available to the public
at little or no cost.  Too me $100 is far from reasonable cost.

3)	I have contacted Nik Simpson of IG for more information about setting
up an ftp site here at the SSCL.  If anyone has some advice or
requirements I would be glad to hear them.
_____________________________________________________________________________

Tony D. Massing, PE
CAE Applications Supervisor

Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory       Phone : (214) 708-1059
Conventional Construction Division              Fax   : (214) 708-4099
2550 Beckleymeade Avenue, MS-2011               Mail  : tony_massing@ssc.gov
Dallas, Texas  75237-3946
_____________________________________________________________________________

Newsgroups: alt.sys.intergraph
From: nik@nik.b30.ingr.com (Nik Simpson)
Subject: Re: Why no response from BSI or Intergraph
Organization: Intergraph Systems Product Marketing
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:09:01 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.125809.10820@sbfdk.sbf.dk> bmu@sbfdk.sbf.dk (Boerge Mueller) writes:
>In article <1993Jan7.010857.19092@nuscc.nus.sg> engboksh@nuscc.nus.sg (BOK SHUNG HWEE (MR)) writes:
>>
>>Sorry I posted to the other subject " ... better software company" but
>>this is it :  maybe through Intergraph or an active Integraph user in
>>IGUG, another suggestion is put up a user group repository  as part of the
>>FTP site.
>>
>>If anything, Intergraph will become a more widely known vendor even
>>amongst non-Intergraph customers :-)  There is nothing to lose.
>>
>
>Why do we not see answers from BSI or Intergraph, we know you are
>listening !!!!!!!!!

	Caution personal opinion only.

	I believe the reason we do not offer an ftp site for Intergraph
customers are:

	1) Tiny minority of customers have Internet access. I know this, 
	   I maintain the alt.sys.intergraph mailing list, I doubt if
	   there are more than 20 customers worldwide that subscribe to
	   this mailing list.

	2) Past experience has shown that allowing incoming connections
	   is a potential security risk. While this risk can be mitigated
	   by setting up firewalls etc it is expensive and not foolproof.

	3) The general consensus amongst those of us who've discussed this
	   issue is that dissemination of PD software is best handled by
	   the user group. A good example of this is DECUS. 

	If the user group is interested in providing a mechanism for
distributing software we could provide large amounts of PD software on a
no support basis similar to the XCONTRIB product.

-- 
|--------------------------------------------------|
|  Nik Simpson	Mail : nik@ingr.com                |
|  Intergraph Corp.  System Product Marketing	   |
|--------------------------------------------------|
From: silverma@aludra.usc.edu (David Silverman)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.intergraph
Subject: Re: Why no response from BSI or Intergraph
Date: 11 Jan 1993 18:49:15 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

I don't post things here that I want Intergraph to answer, but things for
everyone. With Intergraph's great (at least in my experience) 800-number
support, why would I want to wait for their answer here when I can call
them for free (not really 'free' considering the monthly support payments, 
but it is unlimited) and get what I need in a couple of hours?

Newsgroups: alt.sys.intergraph
From: Bhupinder Singh <bsingh@CERF.NET>
Subject: Re: your mail
Organization: Mail news gateway
Distribution: world
Keywords: 
Reply-To: alt-sys-intergraph@ingr.com
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 12:01:22 CST

>
>2) Most Intergraph customers are not connected to the net,
>generally it is only large government and corporate
>organisations. While these represent a large part of
>Intergraph business they are not a large number numerically.
>Alot of Intergraph business is to small users with two
>or three seats. These type of customers have neither the
>time, budget or inclination to get Internet access.
>

I find it hard to believe that "A lot of Intergraph businesses are to
small users with two or three seats". In any case in some way this is
besides the point. There is a difference between being reactive and proactive
and like I said before the "small" effort it takes to set up anon ftp
does not warrant such reactions. CIX is exploding, most Intergraph users
I know in the area are all in the process of utilizing the internet. One
of the main reasons consulting firms didn't have access was because of
the internets AUP ( acceptable use policy). With the relaxing of this lately
I feel this is only going to grow.

I agree with Nik that a comp.sys.. newgroup should be proposed by a customer
and maybe the traffic doesn't warrant it yet. The Internet as a resource
should be discussed at IGUG's, people educated and informed, and surely
this is of some interest to Intergraph..

--
Bhupinder Singh				James M. Montgomery Engineers
Internet  - bsingh@cerf.net
MaBellnet - (818) 568-6107
Newsgroups: alt.sys.intergraph
From: nik@nik.b30.ingr.com (Nik Simpson)
Subject: Re: Why no response from BSI or Intergraph
Organization: Mail news gateway
Distribution: world
Keywords: 
Reply-To: alt-sys-intergraph@ingr.com
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 08:56:10 CST

>
>>	I believe the reason we do not offer an ftp site for Intergraph
>>customers are:
>>
>>	1) Tiny minority of customers have Internet access. I know this,
>>	   I maintain the alt.sys.intergraph mailing list, I doubt if
>>	   there are more than 20 customers worldwide that subscribe to
>>	   this mailing list.
>>
>>	2) Past experience has shown that allowing incoming connections
>
>I suspect that there are far more than 20 customers following this newsgroup.
>One reason for the lack of activity is the lack of feedback from Intergraph on
>the newsgroup.  Look at any of the SGI newsgroups for a good give and take
>feedback system.

SGI systems are heavily used in University research projects, and
for software development by third parties, this accounts for the more
vociferous user base.

Intergraph people all over the world follow this news group via
newsfeeds and by email. Whenever there is traffic on this group, quite
alot of it comes from Intergraph.  In future please read the response
before acting, I said twenty customers on the "mailing list", since I
organise and administer the mailing list I know what I'm talking about.
The reasons that I doubt many customers read this list are:

1) Most postings come from people who I know are on the mailing list.

2) Most Intergraph customers are not connected to the net,
generally it is only large government and corporate
organisations. While these represent a large part of
Intergraph business they are not a large number numerically.
Alot of Intergraph business is to small users with two
or three seats. These type of customers have neither the
time, budget or inclination to get Internet access.

>
>Internet represents a great resource for spreading software routines around.
>You will never know what kind of response you will get unless you try.  There
>are a number of very responsive vendors out there!
>

It represents a great resource to those connected to it, as I've
tried to explain, this is a very small proportion the Intergraph customer
base. I still believe that CD-ROM is the way to go.
--
|----------------------------------------------------------------|
| Nik Simpson        Mail  :      nik@ingr.ingr.com 	           |
| Systems Software Consultant.    Intergraph Corporation         |
| In life a foolish prating knave				   |
|----------------------------------------------------------------|
Newsgroups: alt.sys.intergraph