HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: balistik@big-brother.nevada.edu (Shawn Hicks)
Subject: Re: Colorado
Organization: Not yet, but we're working on it...
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 23:42:22 GMT

In article <mattm-041192111017@mcmelmon.apple.com>, mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.163951.302@craycos.com>, mush@craycos.com (Randy
>Murrish) wrote:
>
>> I know I should stay and fight CFV on their home turf, but I am tired
>> of the fight and am seriously considering moving to a more progressive
>> state.  The people of Colorado have demonstrated with this vote that
>> they do not appreciate my contribution to their society.
>
>I think you should leave, and encourage other homosexual professionals
>to do the same.  Move to Oregon.  It's a beautiful state, much like
>Colorado for it's natural wonders, it has a strong high technology
>sector, AND - assuming the OCA carries through with it's threat -
>a few more votes against them wouldn't hurt.  


Or, better yet, move to Nevada.  We have a total state population
of around 1.2 million people.  If every queer voter in this 
country moved to Nevada we'd have the "simple" majority.  Las Vegas'
major, Jan Jones, is *very* gay positive.  One of her brothers 
(or is it brother-in-law?) is gay, and while she was the CEO of
Fletcher Jones Toyota she ran TV adds with her and Kenny Kerr
as sisters.  (Kenny Kerr is a professional drag artist on the 
strip.  He was featured on several daytime gossip/news shows.)
Watch for *Govenor* Jones in the future.


Imagine, a state with a Queer Majority....  


Shawn

Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
From: gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:58:21 GMT

tf> Tim Fogarty
gs> Gary Strand

gs> It's well-known that the best way for an employer to avoid charges of dis-
    crimination is to enact a quota system, or to alter the balance between 
    one set of employees and another set by race-norming test scores, or some
    other method.

tf> It is well-known that the best way for an employer to avoid charges of dis-
    crimination is to select/promote employees based on their qualifications,
    using the same standards equally on all employees.

  Nope. Such a workforce ends up being other than 50% male, 50% female, 15%
  black, 10% gay, and so on. White males (and Asian males) tend to have an
  advantage over others in terms of family income, education, opportunity,
  and so on. That's why we have Affirmative Action and other programs, to
  try to compensate for these differences.

tf> If he/she uses anything other than your qualifications in determining 
    whether you get hired, or how much of a raise you get, then he/she is
    discriminating.

  Which isn't automatically a bad thing. 

tf> No gay group or organization has ever been interested in quotas.  

  Any proof? Actually, I suppose they wouldn't, because then their sexuality
  would be known to others. Then, of course, if your employer doesn't know
  that you're gay, how can she use that as a reason to fire you, and second-
  ly, as I've stated many times before, just because she *can* fire you for
  being gay doesn't mean she *will* fire you for being gay.

--
Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tcarlin@athena.mit.edu (Thomas B Carlin)
Subject:   call for short stories<<----------------------------Original message
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 01:15:38 GMT

A friend has asked me to post this on soc.motss.  All replies are to her
at stein@mitvma.mit.edu  

Seeking storie from male writers for Fiction Anthology on Children and 
the Lesbian and Gay communities.

DEADLINE: February 1, 1993.

  We are looking for fictional prose about children and the lesbian and
gay communities for an anthology to be published by New Victoria Publishers.
The anthology represents a wide spectrum of experience: AI, adoption,
choosing to parent/choosing not to parent, child/parent/friend relationships,
multi-ethnic perspectives, etc.  We are also interested in representing a variet
of points of view about how children in the lesbian and gay community affect
us as individuals, in relationships and in our communities.
         Our interest in this project arises out of varied perspectives -- one o
us is a lesbian mother of two young sons, two of us are in a lesbian couple
with a newborn daughter, one of us never wanted children and one of us has
chosen not to have children.  As a group, we have worked together in a Jewish
lesbian writers group for many years.  We write, edit each other's work, give
each other support and read to the public occasionally.  Several of us have
been published.

         The anthology is nearly complete; at this time we are looking for a few
additional stories written by men.  Stories may be told from any number of
possible points of view: that of a parent, a non-biological parent,  an adult
without children, a young child, an adult reflecting back on childhood.

         If you have a story that might have a place in this anthology, please
send it to us as soon as possible, but no later than February 1, 1993.  If you
know other men writers who might wish to contribute a story, please pass the
word.  We would prefer to receive typed, double-spaced manuscripts, but will
accept stories in any legible format.  If producing print is difficult for you,
please call us to work out a solution.  Please send us a brief bio with your
story or letter, as well as information if the story has been previously
published.

         All contributors will be paid and will receive two copies of the
anthology.

Send stories to:
  Parenting Anthology, c/o STEIN, PO Box 308, Kendall Square,
         Cambridge MA 02142
Or leave a telephone message for us at (617) 325-0962 (11:00 am - 9:00 pm
Eastern time)
(11/7/92)
From: jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: More thoughts on CO-2
Date: 13 Nov 92 01:01:23 GMT
Organization: Militant Homosexual Lobby, Gay Lifestyles, Inc.


 
Katherine Holcomb (holcomb@sylvester.cgd.ucar.edu) asked:

> Speaking of economic jeopardy, I have a coworker (who
> posts rather aggressively to local newsgroups) who simply
> cannot believe that an employer would fire someone merely
> because he is gay.  I have not personally witnessed anyone
> being fired for such a reason, but I am convinced that
> I have seen someone whose career was stymied for that reason.

Sometimes the forest is so large that none of the trees
is visible.

Usually, the US Government is considered an employer.

The Armed Forces of the United States is often thought
to provide a stable career opportunity.

The military branches have routinely fired people simply
because they are gay.

I personally know at least three such people.  Many 
have posted here about their experiences.  [Remember 
Bob Sarver?]  How many thousands of examples does your
coworker need to be convinced?

--jns
Xref: sparky soc.motss:47317 alt.politics.homosexuality:7128 co.politics:1899
From: rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: off-topic discussions (was Re: Novelty time!)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 03:40:09 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <1992Nov8.013920.18505@Princeton.EDU>, spencer@phoenix.Princeton.EDU
(S. Spencer Sun) writes:
|> In article <1dbse2INN8nb@mizar.usc.edu>, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
|> writes:
|> >
|> >When I get together with other gay people, we talk about
|> >more than just our sexual orientation.  We talk about movies.  
|> >About art.  About politics.  About travel.  About how utterly
|> >magnificent the Callas Lucia di Lammermoor recorded live
|> >in Berlin in 1955 is.  About the weather.  About books
|> >we've read.  About books we're reading.  About books we'd
|> >like to read.  About hiking.  About cars.  About food.
|> 
|> Great, but I don't think that has anything to do with the fact that you
|> all are gay.  All this means is...
|> 
|> >Soc.motss is gayspace where GLBOs can talk freely about whatever
|> >they'd like to talk about.  Just as I don't expect to like every
|> >GLBO I meet, I don't expect to like everything I read here.  What's
|> >the big deal?
|> 
|> ... we have different ideas as to what exactly soc.motss should be for.
|> I'm sorry we disagree.

I'm sorry you feel the need to reinvent it.  Those of us who have been here for
a while (it's over seven years for me, and lots of others who are here preceded
me) have always known Arne's reasons to be among the reasons soc.motss (and
before it, net.motss) was here.  If you only want to address gay issues, feel
free to do so.  But don't tell us what to do.
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bene@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Benedikt Homann)
Subject: travel to new zealand in january
Organization: Technische Universitaet Berlin, Germany
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:04:52 GMT

[posting for a friend]

Hello,
landscape architect from germany, Berlin,aged 31, will 
travel to New Zealand next year between January 28th 
and February 28th. I intend tracking on the South Island.

Places I would like to go to besides Christchurch are

    Dunedin, Queenstown, Westport, Nelson and Auckland


for leaving NZ. Beeing interested getting a look more
closely to your country I'd like to contact people.
Because of this I would be happy about any letter which
will reach me. You can also reply via email to bene.

Other interests besides my profession are classical music,
opera, dancing, chatting about everything important.

I won't ask for accomodation for I will stay at backpackers.

My adress is Stefan Rampelmann
	     Kaunstr. 8
	     1000 Berlin 37
	     FRG Germany
Email:       bene@cs.tu-berlin.de
	     
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly)
Subject: Re: Please get out there and vote Democratic
Date: 09 Nov 92 02:17:39 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
	<1992Nov04.024238.26816@microsoft.com>

georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly) writes:
) das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz) writes:
) ) Stephen Michael is running as a Republican for the Washington
) ) State Legislature.

) I think Steve Michael is running as a Republican because
) the incumbent, Pat Thibadeau, is a Democrat.  I believe
) that Michael, unlike Thibadeau, has been endorsed by
) all of the local gay and gay-friendly politicians and SEAMEC. 
) He's also an active member of ACT-UP.  All in all, hardly a
) typical Republican.

Whoops.  The report in Friday's Seattle Gay News is at odds
with my imperfect recollections.

	Michael ran with a "rebel Republican" strategy, hoping
	to single-handedly change the Republican party by forcing
	the AIDS issue into their polictics.  Although he
	received 21% of the vote, the idea backfired on him.
	Cal Anderson [openly gay state Representative, who retained
	his own seat with a huge majority], who chose to endorse
	Thibaudeau, called Michael's campaign "unfortunate and
	misguided."

	"I had problems dealing with bigoted Republicans on the
	campaign trail every time I tried to call them on their
	hate," Anderson said.  "They would bring up the fact that
	Michael was running on their ticket to try and show that
	they weren't homophobes.  It really caused a lot of damage."

	Michael disagrees.  "I think some Democrats were scared that
	the rebel Republican could work.  We thought people would
	really get it since I was the only person disrupting
	candidates on the AIDS issues this year," he said.  Michael
	said he did not expect to be part of the landslide defeat
	of the Republican party since he wasn't "a real Republican."

Michael got bad press from the two Seattle newspapers, the
Times and the Post-Intelligencer, and a cover story in the
University of Washington Daily reported that he had been charge
with arrest warrants in three counties, had left unpaid bills,
and was accused of embezzling ACT-UP/Seattle funds.  Michael
says the Daily's article is "a load of crap."  The Daily's
reporter claims that he can verify everything he found.

Oh, well.  We've got Cal Anderson in the Washington House
of Representatives, Governer-elect Mike Lowry is a friend of
the gay community, as is US Senator-elect Patty Murray, and
many of the extremist Republicans in the state House and Senate
retired or lost their seats, leaving Democrats in control of
both the state House and Senate.
________________
George V. Reilly   <GeorgeRe@Microsoft.Com>
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Protecting the supportive...
Date: 12 Nov 92 21:10:52 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Nov12.185900.10649@spdcc.com>, rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob
Donahue) wrote:

> 	Does that mean I'm backing off on a boycott?  Well, no and
> yes.  I think if it can be shown that company XXX did in fact come
> out against 2 *before hand* and *publically*, then it seems only
> fair to publically support and patronize their business.  The same
> goes for those places that were anti-GBLO* in their efforts.
> Certainly some of the skiing areas like Vale were very anti-2.
> I don't think it represents hypocrisy to be very watchful of $$$
> spent in Colorado and at the same time hold the places you do do
> business with as examples to the others.

Now *this* sounds promising!  (so promising that I have cleaned up some
typos... :-) ).  Certainly the message will be loud and clear if 
a homosexuals patronize only those Colorado establishments which
voiced support for the community.  Furthermore, it will be difficult
for such support to be used as an attack by the Fundamentalist
core.  They can't say: see them homosexuals trying to force their
agenda on an entire state.  They can only say:  see them homosexuals
taking their business to only homosexual-friendly establishments
within the state.

Not nearly the same thing.

And it will keep friends who were already friends, rather than turn
them into enemies.  The Aspen community - having voted so overwhelmingly
against the measure - would be justified in becoming more than a 
little pissed at the Totalitarian Tinkerbells calling for a 
boycott of the slopes.  

Besides, a visible homosexual presence in Colorado - a visible *positive*
presence - would send a signal of strength and confidence.  So go
skiing - and wear bright pink, skin-tight latex covered with nude
pictures of Jason Priestley...

*X*
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Fundamentalists and the clitoris
Date: 14 Nov 92 01:11:32 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <BOB.92Nov11210959@dolores.Stanford.EDU>, bob@dolores.Stanford.EDU (Bob Lodenkamper) writes:
> In article <1992Nov12.035614.14567@funlwb.enet.dec.com>
>    Shit! Of course God created sexual pleasure for both women and men.
> 
> Not according to the fundies (aka religious right).    

Source?  I know a lot of "fundies" (a term as offensive to funda-
mentalists as "faggot" is to homosexuals).  Some are suffering
from a very Southern, uncomfortable about sex sort of attitude,
but most don't.  And even the ones that are uncomfortable about
sex between a married couple know that this is a cultural problem,
not something from the Bible.

> - Bob


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Foxes prefer rabbits with short claws." -- Nadja Adolf
Xref: sparky soc.motss:46725 talk.politics.misc:59126 ca.politics:9458
From: Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
Subject: Re: How Many Homosexuals?
Date: Mon,  9 Nov 92 10:28:19 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

The LA Times poll came up with 3% gay for either national or CA polls.

The other factor to consider is that gays vote at an extremely hight
rate, just like Jews. So Jews are 4% of the vote, but only 2% of the
population. In SF, Examinter polls usually come up with gays as
10% of the general population, but 15% of voters. Since most people
consider SF to be 4 or 5X the national proportion of gays, that puts
us back to 2-3% nationally population, and if they're 2-3% of voters,
they would be even less in the population.

Also be aware that even on soc.motss, no study has ever been cited that
10% of the general population is gay. Only one defective study that`
included prisoners, and counted people who were ever gay at any point
in their lives, and only counted men has this figure. Every other study
of people who are gay now, male or female comes up between 2 to 5
percent, despite the fact that 95% of press accounts continue to
blindly use the 10% figure because that's what gay activists keep
spouting.

Another interesting parallel between gays and Jews - depending on 
whether you looked at the CA or US exit poll, the LA Times poll showed
that gays were either just above or just below Jews in preference for
Clinton over Bush, exceeded only by liberals, Democrats, and Blacks.

If we allow there are 25% more gays than self-report themselves on
exit polls, then the size of the gay vote would be the same as the
Jews, even though their representation in elected offices is still
far less than the Jews.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Colorado tactics
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:01:58 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.234140.14497@colorado.edu>, devin@frodo.Colorado.EDU (Sonja Orlavski) writes:
> Rod Williams (rjwill6@PacBell.COM) wrote:
> : 
> : Seems to me that all LGB employers in Colorado should
> : dismiss their heterosexual employees forthwith.
> 
> Great idea...one problem.  Amendment #2 specifically singles out homosexuals
> and bisexuals.  Heterosexuals can still claim discrimination on the basis
> of sexual orientation.

  Interesting... That means places which still sexual orientation 
laws on the books such as Denver and Aspen would protect hets but
not anybody else. This seems like a potential good challenge based
on the equal protection clause of the 14th...
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Xref: sparky soc.motss:47475 talk.politics.misc:60081 ca.politics:9573
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
Subject: Re: Twice Fucked (Colorado gays)
Keywords: idiocy, sexism
Date: 14 Nov 92 00:22:39 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Nov10.175316.9292@walter.bellcore.com>, dfs@lestat.bellcore.com (Deborah Swayne) writes:
> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay) writes:
# |# Meow! Someone got up on the wrong side of life this morning. You
# |# ought to give some kind of warning to these postings; you know,
# |# something like "Summary: Attitude Queen on the rag... Proceed
# |# with caution". (How's that for flamebait?)
# 
# Excellent.  Do you use anti-woman expressions whenever you want to
# insult a man, or do you reserve them for insulting gay men?
# 
# Debby Swayne

I never cease to be amazed at how:

1. Homosexuals insist that homophobia is misogynistic in nature;

2. that homosexuals are in better touch with their true feelings
than heterosexuals; and,

3. how often homosexual men in soc.motss insist on childish
insults based on the assumption that women are inferior.  (Like
the example above).

Of course, the misogyny of male homosexuals isn't surprising,
if you simply interpret it as the response of someone filled
with self-loathing about their efforts to fulfill (at least
occasionally) a role that the male homosexual regards as "female."

I've seen more misogny from homosexuals in soc.motss than from
heterosexuals in all other groups combined.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Foxes prefer rabbits with short claws." -- Nadja Adolf
From: dgilly@us.oracle.com (Daniel Gilly)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: CO-2 Ammendment
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:14:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: oracle.1992Nov9.171438.7217
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Redwood Shores CA 94065
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <BxB56w.6Kx@scd.hp.com> mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton) writes:
>Clayton Cramer (cramer@optilink.UUCP) wrote:
>> 
>> The Physician Assisted Death Initiative failed.  Term limits for Congressmen
>> passed.  If only we could have combined the two... two terms, and a doctor
>> does lethal injection...
>--------
>
>       ba-ba-Boom ...
>
>What a guy!  Give 'im a hand, folks!

Oh, no.  I just laughed at something C. C. wrote.
Talk about cognitive dissonance!  
-- 
Daniel Gilly                                   dgilly@us.oracle.com 
                                               Oracle Corporation
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rickc@agora.rain.com (Rick Coates)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Oregon aftermath
Date: 6 Nov 92 22:36:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.BxBG4G.6Jz
Organization: Open Communications Forum

mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:

>In article <45247@ogicse.ogi.edu>, novick@ogicse.ogi.edu (David G. Novick)
>wrote:

>> Second, I'm not feeling particularly happy this morning.  It is true
>> that Bush was trounced, that a pro-choice candidate won an upset
>> victory in our congressional district, and that Measure 9 lost.  It is
>> also true, however, that some 45 percent of the voters here chose the
>> path of bigotry and hatred.  

>The margin of Clinton's victory was less than half the margin of Measure
>9's defeat.  If Bush were 'trounced' - does it not follow that the
>Oregon initiative was doubly so?  The initative lost.  Bush lost.  

No, it doesn't (follow).  Statewide races, and especially ballot
measures, often get a wider margin.  I believe that of the eight
measures that were not approved, measure 9 was not approved by second
narrowest margin.


There are more issues involved with constitutional questions of
disenfranchisement than with the choice of which individual is the chief
executive.


Rick 
rickc@agora.rain.com