HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
Date: 14 Dec 92 17:05:12 GMT
Organization: Kaos Laboratories


In article <gate.3H3mVB1w165w@pil.UUCP>, alizard@pil writes...

>Ashley has the right to say what he pleases. When he obviously doesn't
>know what he's talking about, he does NOT have the right to be taken
>seriously. This is a serious issue. If he wants to be taken seriously
>on this by any but the equally ignorant, he needs to do some serious
>study on subjects ranging from recycling to economics to space technology.
>                                                 A.Lizard

	Bull. I might suggest that YOU ought to learn how to listen to someone 
other than yourself. You consistanly miss the point of anything I or anyone 
else that you disagree with says. 
	And just so it is said one more time, I have never slammed your 
beloved space technology from a technical point. I do know is it's effects on 
the environment and the evolutionary changes we need to make before we can 
responsibly exploit another sourse of resourses, and that is something you 
have *chosen* to remain ignorant of. 

	The sum of my statement is this: Going into space will only genereate 
more thilth and more ecological damage unless we create eco-friendly 
technologies right HERE, right NOW. All our waste products *must* be 
re-integratable into the eco-sphere, and we must begin to do so immediately if 
we plan on surviving. 

	Grow up and learn to listen a.lizard. You might learn something.


				- Ashley
From: amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: pagan origin of Christmas customs?
Date: 15 Dec 92 17:02:31 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at Austin

In reference to your request for pagan origins of Christmas customs:

I recommend _An ABC of Witchcraft , Past and Present_ by Doreen
Valiente, or, failing that, _Eight Sabbats for Witches_ by Janet and
Stewart Farrar (they got a goodly portion of their information from
Valiente's work).  For some other views which are a little more
questionable in historical accuracy but are good for making people
think in another way, try Barbara Walker's _Woman's Dictionary of
Symbols & Sacred Objects_.

The thing to remember, though, is that there are many fundamentalist
Christians (and fundamentalist I mean in original sense of just
wanting to get back to the basics of the faith without the "pagan" or
otherwise unnecessary trappings as well as those we might more
properly call "funnymentalists") who do not observe certain "customs"
of Christmas -- precisely because those customs are pagan in origin
and they know that.

So don't expect to surprise these people; many of them will be able to
respond (truthfully) that they knew those customs were pagan and they
don't indulge in them either.  Then you can start talking about how
the event known as the Star of Bethlehem probably occurred in the
springtime and that Christmas wasn't placed nearby the winter solstice
until some years after the "founding" of Christianity and isn't it
interesting how St. John the Baptist's birthday is the same number of
days away from the summer solstice as Jesus' is supposed to be from
the winter solstice and have they ever heard of Mithras, and what
about the Oak King and the Holly King?  :)

*That* tends to throw them off their feed...

-- 
-----Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik-------------------------------*<:-)-------------
"Queens never make bargains."  -- The Red Queen, _Through the Looking Glass_
-----amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu--------------The University of Texas @Austin---
From: mikea@zorba.gvg.tek.com (Michael P. Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Saami Belief-Systems (Was: Norse Belief-Systems)
Date: 12 Dec 92 02:37:39 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

I've never heard of Saami, and would love to hear more...MPA
From: cn573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ray Henry)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Santa Claus
Date: 20 Dec 92 20:58:50 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I've always liked to think of Santa Claus as an aspect of the
God and Mary as an aspect of the Goddess. (Though, in truth,
aren't we all, to some extent?) It makes sense to me that this
elderly gentleman would travel the globe, rewarding good behavior
with gifts and bad with coal (although coal is not a bad gift if
you have a way to burn it.) Sort of a karmic benefactor.

Antryg
-- 
Ray Henry - cn573@cleveland.freenet.edu

Nice, boring, empty sigfile goes here.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: George Paap <george_paap@email.sps.mot.com>
Subject: Re: What the hell to do for Solstice
Organization: Motorola - SPS
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.0
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:34:19 GMT



George Paap

I am my opinions.
(which almost certainly are not those of my employer)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich)
Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 12:15:28 GMT

alizard@pil writes:

>Ever heard of the concept of "grandmotherly kindness"?

No..I guess I haven't. Is that like being cruel to be kind?
I don't buy it. And who are you to be judging anyway?
al


-- 
Al Aldrich aaldrich@encore.com 305-797-2335
"Mythology: The body of a primitive people's beliefs concerning its
origin, early history, heroes, deities and so forth, as distinguished
from the true accounts which it invents later." -- Ambrose Bierce
From: alizard@pil
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 17:18:49 PST

Re: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
 
> From: aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich)
> Newsgroups: alt.pagan
> Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
> >I think some serious study of how things REALLY work, from natural processes
> >to recycling to how things are actually made in a technological culture
> >is in order for Ashley, unless Ashley wants to provide unintentional
> >entertainment to the users of this newsgroup.
> Ashley's suggestions may not have very much merit to you, but I don't
> think that this is any reason to be derisive. This was very mean spirited
> and unecessary. Geez..people, can we be kind ?
> >blessings,
> al

Ashley has the right to say what he pleases. When he obviously doesn't
know what he's talking about, he does NOT have the right to be taken
seriously. This is a serious issue. If he wants to be taken seriously
on this by any but the equally ignorant, he needs to do some serious
study on subjects ranging from recycling to economics to space technology.
                                                 A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== sum saurus, sum saurus, sum maximus saurus! ====== 93 ======
 (slogan contributed by Jessica Mc Geary)  (translated by Murray Altheim)
Mail to me should be sent to:       |  There are no fnords in this sig file.
alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM     |  autoreply to address I posted this
     ^^^ preferred site ^^^         |  from only if you want to wait a
PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard     |  solstice or two for my answer.
alizard@seer.mystic.com             |              Kallisti!
^^^use ONLY if all else fails       |  PGP2.0 public key available on request

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Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: /What is a Pagan?  
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<1992Dec12.222511.14395@athena.cs.uga.edu>
Date: 13 Dec 1992 20:21:49 UTC

In article <1992Dec12.222511.14395@athena.cs.uga.edu> 
tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda) writes:
>In article <fWvYkG5@quack.sac.ca.us> 
pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec12.160457.6276@athena.cs.uga.edu> 
>>tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda) writes:
>>>>In <fWk3agN@quack.sac.ca.us> pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) writes:
>>>>>A'ight. I'll buy that too. But, I think you have to proceed with
>>>>>caution, because if you put the field of opposites together, there is
>>>>>no guarantee that you can reverse it. So, if you take the two
>>>>>opposites of you and me and are able to perceive the ONE, then there is
>>>>>no more *you*. By Hindu dogma, *you* vanish in a puff of light, into the
>>>>>transcendent.
>>>And is "vanishing" something we should strive for?  (or "simply realize in
>>>the satori sense).
>>>I would think that all pagans would completely reject
>>>the idea of a monistic universe, where everything is really illusion and no
>>>particular gods exists anyway.
>>>Wouldn't ya'll agree?
>>Why would you think that? Wouldn't that be dogmatic? I am aware of no
>>such rules of paganism, perhaps others will care to comment. I think if
>>you look around you will even find atheistic pagans. Hinduism, the
>>collected beliefs of the pre-Islamic Indian subcontinent, is clearly
>>pagan,
>Let's see, there are two defninitions of pagan:  1) not a Jew, Christian, or
>Muslim, and 2) those who those gods and not the One true God.  
>In (2) we are talking about the individuals who are dedicated to a deity, a
>bit more so than having a patron saint, so to speak.  Today, these pagans,
>or some say "neo-pagans", believe in these deities.  Now, if they wish to
>cancel all of their specific beliefs out with some vague Taoist notion of
>the "Undifferentiated" then so be it, although I am inclined to think most
>neo-pagans really want to retain their personal existence and meet their
>deity.    

All right, it appears that you have a firm, exclusive definition of your
category two pagan, but what about your category one: "1) not a Jew, Christian,
or Muslim?" Does this exclude monism and "vague Taoist notion(s) of the
'Undifferentiated'," or are these category one people not "real" pagans?
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans)
Subject: Re: sowing bags
Organization: Cicely Public Access UNIX, Cicely, AK
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:55:00 GMT

dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:


>much easier to gather a hem.  The only thing I use my machine for is long
>straight seams, like on curtains or the sides of skirts, or for zig-zagging.
>Other than that, you're better off without that machine.

I'm the one that suggested this bag-making, as an alternative to wrapping 
paper. The only reason I suggested a machine is that sewing these bags would
likely be just that: long boring straight seams. Of course it would be 
wonderful to make lovely bags by hand, special bags for loving gifts, sewn, 
quilted, embroidered, kept and reused over and again to build their appeal, 
brought out for holidays until they're part of a family's traditions, passed
down as heirlooms.....but I digress. :->

Giftbags quickly sewn from holiday prints by machine would also do as a 
recyclable alternative to boxes and paper. For some of us, that's the only
way they'd get done for now, and getting them done would be better than 
surrendering to another round of wasted dead trees, right?

Marty


=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Seems like there ought to be a way we could look each other in the eye
To see we're all in this together, and put all thoughts of victory aside.
Seems like there ought to be a way we could turn this fear into trust;
No matter what you say, there has to be a way --
Every living thing is counting on us."      

Marty Hale-Evans                                 M   @   *   O   %   8   U
89 Mass. Ave., Ste. 199, Boston, MA 02115       \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/
From: kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan)
Newsgroups: alt.destroy.the.earth
Subject: Re: The Charter (FAQ)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 00:29:51 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University
NNTP-Posting-Host: b64635.student.cwru.edu

In article <1992Dec12.204223.4440@abo.fi> MANDTBACKA@FINABO.ABO.FI (Mats Andtbacka) writes:
>      On another note, slightly related to the "stop the Earth's
>orbital rotation" - thread, how much energy would be needed to stop the
>Earth's rotation around its own axis - say, without bothering about
>tidal effects from the moon and the sun? Anybody have a figure on this,
>and any ideas on where best to apply such a force, if it can be found?


	Assuming the Earth is a uniform sphere [ ha ha ]: a rough 
aproximation of its  rotational kinetic energy.

	I=2/5 MR^2
	RKi=1/2 Iw^2=1/5 MxR^2xw^2

	M=5.974 EE +24 Kg

	R=6,378,000 m

	w=2pi rad/86,400sec= 7.272 EE -05  rad/sec

	therefore  Rki=2.57 EE +29 J

You will have to provide an equal amount of energy to stop the earth's 
rotation ( ignoring all other factors ) Not very likely.	

>
>-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-
> If you think I'm gonna be responsible for this crap, you're madder than I am.
>    "No logic here today / Do as you got to, Go your own way..." -- G 'n' R
From: corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley )
Newsgroups: alt.destroy.the.earth
Subject: Re: Having a blast.
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:27:11 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson

In article <1992Dec11.093054.1@woods.ulowell.edu> cotera@woods.ulowell.edu writes:
>In article <1992Dec11.010851.17715@cobber.cord.edu>, serhienk@cobber.cord.edu (David Serhienko) writes: 
>
>Wait a minute! I though our goal included the destruction of the human race. 
>What fun would it be if they survived.  Although I do like the idea raping and
>pillaging the universe.
>--Ray Cote

It all depends on what theory you subscribe to.  In the Charter/FAQ, there's
a description of the several levels of destructionism.  One of them
includes the destruction of the planet in order to get the human race
off its lazy collective butt and out into space.  Others say the human
race as a whole is nothing but an evolutionary mistake, having produced
such monstrosities as Cheez Wiz and Dick Clark.

In either case, the conflicts can be solved by stating that the ones that
would survive a destruction of the earth would be the ones fittest to
survive.  And of course, that includes us, because we would know about it
in advance.  Ed McMahon, though would die a horrible violent screaming
bloody death.

	Jason
	Our Reporter On The Hideous Plane of Leng
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:16:43 EST
From: <TPW106@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.destroy.the.earth
Subject: changing the orbit of a comet

for good ideas on changing the orbit of a comet read "the heart of the comet"
by greg bear (i think).  it's about changing the orbit of Halley's.
From: kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan)
Newsgroups: alt.destroy.the.earth
Subject: Re: Test
Date: 16 Dec 92 21:22:12 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University
NNTP-Posting-Host: b64635.student.cwru.edu

In article <st15-161292115344@mla.cssites.uga.edu> st15@cs.uga.cc.edu (MOJO) writes:
>This has mostly been a test


	It didn't work. The world is *still* around!


	:-)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------			The Truth is still the Truth
		      Even if you choose to ignore it.
Newsgroups: alt.destroy.the.earth
From: harry@timesink.chi.il.us (Harold Platypus)
Subject: Re: The Ultimate Solution
Organization: Big Bulging Buffalo Bladders -R- Us
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 16:04:15 GMT

In article <1gcuajINN8e@agate.berkeley.edu> lizi@soda.berkeley.edu (Cosma Shalizi) writes:
>In article <1992Dec12.083338.16980@timesink.chi.il.us> harry@timesink.chi.il.us (Harold Platypus) writes:
>>I don't think anyone has to destroy the earth. I think about 75% of
>>mankind needs to die so the other 25% can have a life... If we don't
>>do it to ourselves, nature will oblige in the form of a disaster or
>>a plague. How about a rapidly shifting form of flu like the one
>>described in Steven King's _The Stand_?
>    <Reflexive liberal flame about "And how do you choose which 25%?"
>restrained with difficulty> Antigen shifting is hard to work, and besides,
>flu is untraditional. Breeding an anti-biotic resistant strain (or strains)
>of the pneumonic plague would be much simpler and far more in keeping with
>tradition. Can you imagine the survivor's children singing "Ring around the
>roses, pocket full of Dristan, we all go 'Achoo!'"? No doubt the good people
>at Ft. Dietrich have already thought of such things...
>	Cosma Rohilla Shalizi
>	In Real Life: lizi@soda.berkeley.edu
>	larval physicist

I never suggested any particular group of 25%. In fact, I would be
willing to be one of the 75% to bite the dust. I am not afraid of
death. Tens of Billions have come and gone before me, and I am one
with them all, as is everyone. There should be population control
before our world is unable to feed the masses of our population
which continues to explode unchecked.

Before I die, I honestly expect suicide to become an socially
acceptable alternative to wasting away of old age - just as
depicted in the timeless classic _Soylent Green_. This is NOT
a joke. It is one of sciences major concerns and will begin to
be a MAJOR problem by the mid to late nineties. I am only
stating what MUST occur. Nature takes "care" of her own...
- Harry
Newsgroups: alt.destroy.the.earth
From: MANDTBACKA@FINABO.ABO.FI (Mats Andtbacka)
Subject: Re: The Charter (FAQ)
Organization: Unorganized Usenet Postings UnInc.
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 20:42:23 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24


      On another note, slightly related to the "stop the Earth's
orbital rotation" - thread, how much energy would be needed to stop the
Earth's rotation around its own axis - say, without bothering about
tidal effects from the moon and the sun? Anybody have a figure on this,
and any ideas on where best to apply such a force, if it can be found?

-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-
 If you think I'm gonna be responsible for this crap, you're madder than I am.
    "No logic here today / Do as you got to, Go your own way..." -- G 'n' R
From: lizi@soda.berkeley.edu (Cosma Shalizi)
Newsgroups: alt.destroy.the.earth
Subject: Re: Having a blast.
Date: 11 Dec 1992 18:36:05 GMT
Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu (Berkeley Tentacle)
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec11.094317.1@woods.ulowell.edu> whites@woods.ulowell.edu writes:
[After my pointing out that making enough anti-matter to drop into the center
 of the Earth to blow it up would take heap and piles o' energy]
>EXCUSE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>If you are going to blow up the Earth, WHY THE HELL ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT THE
>COST OF MAKING THE ANTIMATTER?!?!?!?!?!?!
>                                 The creator of the Big Blast!
    1. To make sure the destruction of the Earth is not blocked by picayune
details, like impossibility.
    2. If all someone wants is to destroy life on Earth (or some selected
portion thereof), there are easier ways than anti-matter. I'm more or less
SETian myself (see the charter!), so blowing Terra to smithereens seems
excessive to me.
	Cosma Rohilla Shalizi
	In Real Life: lizi@soda.berkeley.edu
	larval physicist
-- 
"I'd love to hold you/ I'd love to kiss you/ I ain't got time for that now."
-Talking Heads, "Life During Wartime"
"Death needs Time for what it kills to grow in."
-William S. Burroughs, "Ah Pook is Here"
Newsgroups: alt.destroy.the.earth
From: dproudfo@jarthur.claremont.edu (Kekoa Proudfoot)
Subject: Re: The Charter (FAQ)
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:04:03 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.091259.1@woods.ulowell.edu>
cotera@woods.ulowell.edu writes:
> You're making things more complicated than they are.  All you have to do is
> squeeze real hard on some matter and it will push atoms so close together
> that there will be a fusion reaction which will release a bunch of energy.  
> --Ray Cote

Now, now.  First you spoke of converting "mass to energy".  Now you're
preaching fusion.  There's a big difference.  E = mc^2 doesn't exactly apply
when you talk about fusion, at least not when you compare it to the amount
of energy you get when mixing matter and anti-matter to annihilate particles
and make full use of the E = mc^2 equation.  In fact, the amount of matter
you'd need to get 4.5E33 J (to stop the earth's tangential motion) through
fusion would quite large, considering limitations such as atom size,
stability, and energy released.  This, of course, neglects the serious
problems you're going to have keeping a large-scale fusion reaction going
long enough to release 4.5E33 J, which is a separate issue entirely.

Take a class in Physics or Chemistry for once--it might help.

Dave

- - - - -_- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
         |     _
        (|avid |)roudfoot              dproudfo@jarthur.claremont.edu
               |                      Harvey Mudd Engineering c/o 1995
Newsgroups: alt.destroy.the.earth
From: whites@woods.ulowell.edu
Subject: The select
Organization: University of Lowell
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:06:40 GMT

If we really want to destroy the Earth, why not do it in style? 
We need some really outragous ideas about how to eliminat the planet, of course
the select must be saved.  Those of the human race who are by far the craziest
of all must live, and who is crazier than those who want to destroy it.  
So, keep the stylish ideas coming, and please ignore convention.
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.destroy.the.earth
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:53:39 -0500 
From: Joseph Velardi <jv14+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Season's Greetings

Excerpts from netnews.alt.destroy.the.earth: 9-Dec-92 Season's Greetings
by ECN101@psuvm.psu.edu 

> d lights.  We can also put large sleighs after the B-52's.
                                   ^^^^^^^
No no no!  Not "sleighs!"  You mean "SLAYS."

Merry Christmas all.

Joe
Newsgroups: alt.destroy.the.earth
From: michael@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (Michael George Williams)
Subject: Re: Swift-Tuttle
Organization: University of North Carolina
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 04:13:11 GMT

In article <92345.123331RDT111@psuvm.psu.edu> <RDT111@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>In article <1992Dec9.100206.1@woods.ulowell.edu>, cotera@woods.ulowell.edu says:
>
>     I think swift-tuttle is actually an asteroid not a comet. (there is
>a difference)  I'm not sure if the magnet idea if feasable,  however
>there was an idea of using nuclear warheads to divert it away from the
>Earth.  

In my college astronomy class, which I took this semester, we learned that
we do not now have the nuclear capability, in total "punch," to alter the
orbit of Swift-Tuttle (aka, "the killer comet" in our class--and yes, we
all knew it was really an asteroid, but "killer comet" had some very keen
aliteration which lent a nice ring to it).  We couldn't significantly
alter it out of our path *or* into it.  I personally was disappointed by
it, because it was certainly a nice idea to ponder, but, according to my
astronomy professor, it's just not possible at this time.  And, with the
nuclear disarmament . . . 

Michael, hopefully aiding in the search for an effective way to blow this
ridiculous little orb off the face of the universe
-- 
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Newsgroups: alt.destroy.the.earth