From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
Subject: Re: The genocide of 2.5 million Muslims by the Armenians.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 15:52:51 GMT


In article <EDVAX.92Sep4113357@pyrite.usenet> edvax@pyrite.SOM.CWRU.edu (Weyland Yutani Ltd) writes:

>>   See, you are a compulsive liar.

>I said your first (out of 3) references was valid. The other two had
>substituted Palestine for Mesopotamia and increased the Armenian death
>toll from 600,000 to 1,000,000.  I cannot verify those two EB
>references in my copy of the 1990 copyright 15th edition.  This is

Doesn't it satisfy your confused mind? As for the numbers, I do have a 
copy of a demographic history on the question of the numbers which was 
published by a major American university press, that of New York 
University, copyright 1983. Its author, Prof. Justin McCarthy, is 
chairman of the history department at the University of Louisville in 
Kentucky, and a scholar whose expertise in this subject is so 
universally recognized by his peers that he was chosen to write the 
entry on 'demography' in the major reference work in the field of 
Middle Eastern studies, "The Encyclopedia of Islam." Nor has his 
expertise been ignored by the U.S. Government. Professor McCarthy holds 
perhaps the unique honor of having held a National Science Foundation 
'national needs post-doctoral fellowship in demography' and a National 
Endowment for the Humanities 'senior fellow' grant in history. 

Source #1: McCarthy, J., "Muslims and Minorities, The Population of Ottoman 
           Anatolia and the End of the Empire," New York University Press, 
           New York, 1983, pp. 133-144.

Source #2: Hovannisian, Richard G., "Armenia on the Road to Independence,
           1918. University of California Press (Berkeley and Los Angeles),
           1967, p. 13.

For nearly one thousand years, the Turkish and Kurdish people 
lived on their homeland - the last one hundred under the 
oppressive Soviet and Armenian occupation. The persecutions
culminated in 1914: The Armenian Government (Dashnaks and
Hunchaks) planned and carried out a Genocide against its 
Muslim subjects. 2.5 million Turks and Kurds were murdered
and the remainder driven out of their homeland. After one
thousand years, Turkish and Kurdish lands were empty of Turks
and Kurds. 

Source: Doc. Dr. Azmi Suslu, "Russian View on the Atrocities Committed
        by the Armenians Against the Turks," Ankara Universitesi, Ankara,
        1987, pp. 45-53.
        (Acting Commander of Erzurum and Deveboynu regions and Commander
        of the Second Erzurum Artillery Regiment Prisoner of War,
        Lieutenant Colonel Toverdodleyov)

"...We learnt the details this incident from the Commander-in-Chief,
 Odishelidge. they were as follows:

 The killings were organized by the doctors and the employers, and the
 act of killing was committed solely by the Armenian renegades...
 More than eight hundred unarmed and defenceless Turks have been
 killed in Erzincan. Large holes were dug and the defenceless 
 Turks were slaughtered like animals next to the holes. Later, the
 murdered Turks were thrown into the holes. The Armenian who stood 
 near the hole would say when the hole was filled with the corpses:
 'Seventy dead bodies, well, this hole can take ten more.' Thus ten
 more Turks would be cut into pieces, thrown into the hole, and when
 the hole was full it would be covered over with soil.

 The Armenians responsible for the act of murdering would frequently
 fill a house with eighty Turks, and cut their heads off one by one.
 Following the Erzincan massacre, the Armenians began to withdraw
 towards Erzurum... The Armenian renegades among those who withdrew
 to Erzurum from Erzincan raided the Moslem villages on the road, and
 destroyed the entire population, together with the villages.

 During the transportation of the cannons, ammunition and the carriages
 that were outside the war area, certain people were hired among the 
 Kurdish population to conduct the horse carriages. While the travellers
 were passing through Erzurum, the Armenians took advantage of the time
 when the Russian soldiers were in their dwellings and began to kill
 the Kurds they had hired. When the Russian soldiers heard the cries
 of the dying Kurds, they attempted to help them. However, the 
 Armenians threatened the Russian soldiers by vowing that they would
 have the same fate if they intervened, and thus prevented them from
 acting. All these terrifying acts of slaughter were committed with
 hatred and loathing.

 Lieutenant Medivani from the Russian Army described an incident that
 he witnessed in Erzurum as follows: An Armenian had shot a Kurd. The
 Kurd fell down but did not die. The Armenian attempted to force the
 stick in his hand into the mouth of the dying Kurd. However, since
 the Kurd had firmly closed his jaws in his agony, the Armenian failed
 in his attempt. Having seen this, the Armenian ripped open the abdomen
 of the Kurd, disembowelled him, and finally killed him by stamping
 him with the iron heel of his boot.

 Odishelidge himself told us that all the Turks who could not escape
 from the village of Ilica were killed. Their heads had been cut off
 by axes. He also told us that he had seen thousands of murdered
 children. Lieutenant Colonel Gryaznov, who passed through the village
 of Ilica, three weeks after the massacre told us the following:

 There were thousands of dead bodies hacked to pieces, on the roads.
 Every Armenian who happened to pass through these roads, cursed and
 spat on the corpses. In the courtyard of a mosque which was about
 25x30 meter square, dead bodies were piled to a height of 140 
 centimeters. Among these corpses were men and women of every age,
 children and old people. The women's bodies had obvious marks of
 rape. The genitals of many girls were filled with gun-powder..."

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)