HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: amt5man@SUN.LEEDS.AC.UK
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Which is the Strongest 2-way alliance?
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:09:13 GMT
Reply-To: amt5man@SUN.LEEDS.AC.UK
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via:        UK.AC.LEEDS.GPS; 26 JAN 93 21:10:31 GMT

Since there have been a number of postings recently about 2-way alliances
I've decided to conduct a survey of rec.games.diplomacy readers to
see which 2-way alliances are the most popular.

Listed below are the 21 different 2-way alliances.  Give each alliance
an integer from 1 (low) to 10 (high) and mail the completed form either
to rec.games.diplomacy or amt5man@ecusun.leeds.ac.uk

(Given the right players any 2-way alliance can work, but which are
the strongest?  Which 2-way alliances are considered to be the most
`natural'?  We hope to find this out!)

Austria - England ...................
Austria - France  ...................
Austria - Germany ...................
Austria - Italy   ...................
Austria - Russia  ...................
Austria - Turkey  ...................
England - France  ...................
England - Germany ...................
England - Italy   ...................
England - Russia  ...................
England - Turkey  ...................
France  - Germany ...................
France  - Italy   ...................
France  - Russia  ...................
France  - Turkey  ...................
Germany - Italy   ...................
Germany - Russia  ...................
Germany - Turkey  ...................
Italy   - Russia  ...................
Italy   - Turkey  ...................
Russia  - Turkey  ...................

Remember!  Read it, think about it and then mail it!

First Posting to rec.games.diplomacy (26.1.93)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: abick@sebastian.carleton.ca (Alan Bick)
Subject: Italy replacement needed in pinto
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:37:06 GMT

	Italy has become abandoned on the Washington Judge game pinto. We
are only into 1902 and Italy doesn't seem in any real trouble. He has his
tunis build from the previous year. In fact, I wonder why the person
abandoned.
	Their loss, your gain. Sign on, and let's get things moving!

Alan Bick

Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu (Josh Smith)
Subject: Re: Openings in games on the Washington Judge
Originator: irilyth@fenris
Organization: Evil Geniuses For A Better Tomorrow
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 21:31:02 GMT

I wrote:

> A player in game 'ix' recently had the misfortune to graduate and find a
> decent job (though not so decent as to provide net access :^), and was
> forced to resign as a result. 'ix' is an anonymous (gunboat) white press/no
> partial Loeb9 game presently going into the Winter 1901 builds. Norway, the
> available power, is entitled to one build, and has a fairly strong position,
> both tactically and diplomatically. If you're interested in a fairly crowded
> variant with nine players, just sign on to the game and pick up the position.

Boy, was the current Norwegian player surprised to see that! The abandoned
power is actually Russia, not Norway. Russia also has a build, as well as a
strong position position, though he'll want to talk to the (not at all
abandoned) Norwegian before he builds.

In any case, if you're interested in playing Russia, that's Russia, not
Norway at all, but Russia, in game 'ix', go ahead and sign on.
-- 
Josh Smith, User Support Coordinator  ::  Home: irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu
Harvey Mudd College, Claremont CA USA ::  Work:    josh@fenris.claremont.edu
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography,
and the dancers hit each other." --Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via:        UK.AC.LEEDS.GPS; 26 JAN 93 15:00:11 GMT
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:59:00 GMT
Reply-To:     amt5man@SUN.LEEDS.AC.UK
From:         amt5man@SUN.LEEDS.AC.UK
Subject:      Youngstown

See previous post for details.

 YOUNGSTOWN (Judge version)

(1) JOSH SMITH (1992)

The popular Youngstown variant altered the basic Diplomacy game in a number
of signifcant ways. It introduced Off Board boxes, allowing a form of wrap-
around movement from one edge of the board to the other. It redrew the
European map to allow Germany, Austria, and Turkey to start with four units
each, and created several additional neutral centers in Europe. It gave
England and France home supply centers in Asia, and Italy a home center in
Africa. It added several islands, which bordered only sea spaces. It made
the map non-planar in the African Off Board and the Suez region. It added
three players to the original seven, but more than doubled the number of
supply centers on the board.  The rules and a postscript map can be
downloaded from any of the on-line Judges.
From: highlndr@csa.bu.edu (Sean Pfeiffer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Re: britain variant
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:14:05 GMT
	<1993Jan27.035354.8316@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
Organization: Boston University Computer Science Department
In-reply-to: jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu's message of 27 Jan 93 03:53:54 GMT

Remember: Self-dislodgement is prohibited, so England couldn't forcibly
disband one of his armies.  The only way for England to get anywhere is
to persuade another power to convoy an army to the continent.

Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: js138@cus.cam.ac.uk (John Sloan)
Subject: Re: English and French Alliance
Keywords: Strange armies
Organization: U of Cambridge, England
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:30:32 GMT


It was Bohemia, and it was crushed by 2 german, 2 russian and 2 austrian armies. 
The strange thing was that all three had been squabbling before they crushed it,
and continued to squabble afterwards.  It was a brief moment of cooperation in a
sea of bickering.

It was also one of the most fun and even games I've ever played.

I was France.
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu (Josh Smith)
Subject: Re: Which is the Strongest 2-way alliance?
Originator: irilyth@fenris
Organization: Evil Geniuses For A Better Tomorrow
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 05:57:15 GMT

Mark Nelson (amt5man@sun.leeds.ac.uk) writes:

> Since there have been a number of postings recently about 2-way alliances
> I've decided to conduct a survey of rec.games.diplomacy readers to
> see which 2-way alliances are the most popular.

I'd like to go even further, and publish a series of articles in EPC2 about
strong alliances. This is an official call for submissions: I am now
soliciting detailed explanations of which power represents the best alliance
prospect for Austria, and why. I'll edit and publish the best of the bunch,
and issue a call for similar articles for the other powers once this gets
rolling.  Mail submissions irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu; I'll confirm
receipt via e-mail. Submitting an article implicity grants EPC2 the right to
reproduce it freely.

I will also publish the results of Mark's survey, if he sends them on to me
once it is completed.
-- 
Josh Smith, User Support Coordinator  ::  Home: irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu
Harvey Mudd College, Claremont CA USA ::  Work:    josh@fenris.claremont.edu
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography,
and the dancers hit each other." --Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: c85perwe@IDA.LiU.SE (Per Westling)
Subject: Re: Entire world diplomacy
Reply-To: cornu@lrehp1.epfl.ch
Organization: CIS Dept, University of Linkoping, Sweden
Distribution: rec.games.diplomacy
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 09:18:30 GMT

[*NB:  Misstakenly Thierry Cornu replied by mail instead of replying in
an article.  He asked me to broadcast his reply and the stuff below is
just that.  Please disregard my own signature in the bottom.*]

In article <C85PERWE.93Jan21130609@kol16.IDA.LiU.SE>, 
c85perwe@IDA.LiU.SE (Per Westling) writes:

|> > Has any variant ever been made to include all countries of the world
|> > of 1901?  Including America.  Was it any good?
|> 
|> There are variants of the whole world, and some uses the time around
|> 1901 and/or include America(s).  
|> 
|> The two major variants that include both are Mercator and Youngstown.
|> I think Colonia is another one as well.
|> 
|> So you might wonder about Youngstown.  Well, there are 14 different
|> marks (of which the Judge one is a variant of one of the official
|> marks, IV or VI I think).  The latter ones are using the whole world,
|> eg Youngstown XIII uses 14 powers (eg Brazil, USA, Transvaal,
|> Australia).  Youngstown XIV uses the same (but Transvaal is renamed
|> South Africa) and also uses a variant of the "Abstraction A/F rule".
|> 
|> Mercator exists in several different marks, which uses different maps.
|> 
|> Colonia adds colonies to the regular dip, and uses a global map.  I
|> think it really represent an earlier period, maybe 1880?
|> 

Does anybody has got precise information available on these worldwide variants :

- postscript map ?
- exceptions to standard rules ?
- starting position for the different contries ?
- have they been extensively play-tested in ftf games ?
- are these variants really balanced and playable ?

It would be nice to have one of these variants implemented on the judge,
provided they are actually playable. If someone can provide the necessary
information, I candidate to study the implementation.



=================================================
=                                               =
=               Thierry CORNU                   =
=               DE / LRE                        =
=       EPFL                                    =
=       CH 1015 Lausanne-Ecublens               =
=	SWITZERLAND				=
=                                               =
= e-mail        : cornu@lrehp1.epfl.ch          =
=================================================
--
Per Westling              |
Mardtoprsgatan 15         |  c85perwe@und.ida.liu.se
S-582 48 LINKOPING        |  In praise of Idleness -- Bertrand Russel
SWEDEN                    |
Stuff regarding DPP may be sent to x90perwe@ida.liu.se instead.
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu (Josh Smith)
Subject: Re: English and French Alliance
Originator: irilyth@fenris
Organization: Evil Geniuses For A Better Tomorrow
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:54:43 GMT

Jonathan Haas (positron@quip.eecs.umich.edu) writes:

> I am France and have a close alliance with England. Together, we have 16
> centers (8 apiece) and are doing very well. Then I got a document off the
> FTP site about playing France, and was shocked to find it saying something
> like, "It is to your best interest to destroy England as soon as possible...
> Franco-English alliances rarely work out." Are we talking the same game here?

The Gamer's Guide To Diplomacy characterizes the E/F alliance as a very
strong one, and I'm inclined to agree. I would suspect that opinion you
mention was based on fairly limited experience, possibly with an overly
small subset of players. The Gamer's Guide also notes, for example, that
England was at one point seen as a very weak power in British postal play,
due to the popularity of Franco-German alliances against the English.
American players, though, rated the English as a very strong power; these
differing perspectives lend credence to the general theory that the skills
and attitudes of the players have a lot more impact on the results than the
military positions of the powers. The game is called Diplomacy for a reason.

I've seen an E/F alliance hold for most of the game, but one usually has to
win by stabbing the other. There are alliances for which this is not true:
for example, in an E/G alliance, it is quite possible for Germany to pick up
eighteen centers without having to stab his ally. Ditto Russia in an R/T
alliance. Of course, an alert ally may notice the danger of the situation
and stab first... But that's all part of the game. (grin)
-- 
Josh Smith, User Support Coordinator  ::  Home: irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu
Harvey Mudd College, Claremont CA USA ::  Work:    josh@fenris.claremont.edu
"I guess we were all guilty, in a way. We all shot him, we all skinned him,
and we all got a complimentary bumper sticker that said 'I helped skin Bob.'"
From: gregt@carson.u.washington.edu (Greg Tanner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: re:  New EFF game for *Dedicated* players
Date: 27 Jan 1993 17:51:39 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

To All Dedicated Diplomacy Players:
***********************************

New unlisted EFF game:  for details, see previous postings.

   ***  4 players now signed on, still waiting for 3 more  ***

For clarification:  A 100 dedication rating, being a moderator, or
becoming a replacement player on ANY judge will qualify you.  Sign up now!
From: ac999266@umbc.edu (ac999266)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Re: Fractal (choas) needs 11 more players on u.washington
Date: 22 Jan 1993 14:30:18 -0500
Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County Campus
NNTP-Posting-Host: umbc8.umbc.edu

mfonte@nyx.cs.du.edu (Michael Fonte) writes:

>     Fractal was created quite a while ago and never filled up.  It
>is a choas varient and is not moderated.  Sign up and join the fun,
>but please, please don't quit the game if you ever find yourself
>if a bad position. 

I've never played in a Judge game.  How much time
 does it take per day? per game turn? etc?  If
 33 people write to me, how many am I required to
 respond to by EP rules?

Judge seems really cool, but I can only devote
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: abick@sebastian.carleton.ca (Alan Bick)
Subject: Re: New EFF game for *Dedicated* players
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:38:02 GMT

In <1k41cdINNlub@shelley.u.washington.edu> gregt@carson.u.washington.edu (Greg Tanner) writes:

>To All Dedicated Diplomacy Players:
>***********************************

>rating of over 100, anyone who is a moderator, or anyone who takes over
>an abandoned position in any game on any judge.  You'll still need to meet
>the -10 dedication level, though.

The EFF Judge is pretty new, I'm on two games and one of them is even a
warp game. I'm not near 100 and have never abandoned/resigned. I know of a
lot of people who have higher dedication ratings then me, but I haven't
seen anybody at 100+ yet. Maybe you should set the "preference" at 50 or
something.

Alan Bick

Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Joel Furr)
Subject: _Informal_ proposal: rec.games.diplomacy.openings
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 19:59:22 GMT


I feel that the use of rec.games.diplomacy to answer questions about the
game and discuss variants and strategy is hindered by the use of the group
as "openings-r-us".  I suspect people who feel that they're in enough
games don't pay a lot of attention to the group since they expect it to be
full of openings announcements (mine and others).  I propose that we
discuss forming rec.games.diplomacy.openings and renaming r.g.diplomacy
itself to rec.games.diplomacy.misc.  The openings newsgroup would serve a
dual purpose: one, to get this traffic out of the main group, which would
then serve for discussion of variants and strategy, and two, encourage
people to post about openings.  

This is a purely informal suggestion and has no force under the guidelines
for announcing a new newsgroup proposal in news.announce.newgroups.  If we
like the idea we then have to formally propose it and discuss it for 28
days or more.

So, please comment.
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: shoham@ll.mit.edu (Daniel Shoham)
Subject: Re: New Hall of Fame Scoring for Chaos Games
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 00:56:15 GMT

In article <C1Exup.LAJ@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca> nick@sunburn.uwaterloo.ca (Nick Fitzpatrick) writes:
>In response to numerous negative comments I have received lately about
>Chaos scoring (some of which was mine!), I am considering changes to the
>
>I am proposing, deeming that for the purpose of Hall of Fame points,
>Chaos games are now deemed to have 21 players. this would effect the points
>in the following manner:

What if more than 20 players draw. This is not as silly as it sounds; it is
possible that one player holds 17 SCs, and a rag-tag coalition of many players
are holding him off at a stalemate line. It stands to reason that no one in
the coalition would break rank and face instant loss. Hence, a massive draw.

Perhaps a better way of doing it is to declare that all players elliminated
in the first year are considered (for the purpose of scoring) to never have
played. In a normal chaos game, about 21 players survive the first year and
the effect would be similar.


Dan Shoham               shoham@ll.mit.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The view presented are not necessarily those of my employer, etc.

Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lincoln Laboratory
244 Wood Street
Lexington Massachusetts, 02173-9108
Office B-373
617-981-3515
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: steven_h@aci_1.aci.ns.ca (STEVEN HEATH)
Subject: Re: Alliance (Re: Eng & Fra Alliance)
Organization: Atlantic Computer Institute
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:17:14 GMT

My personal favorite alliance is German-Russia!!!!!!

This alliance is in my opinion very good to both countries.

It allows them to concentrate their units in the North and/or in the south.
This allows them to expand outward from the centre and is very good
defensivly. If Russia also allys with Turkey, then all three can 
destroy Austria and turn on the rest.

Okay, what does everyone think of this????

Steven
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Solution for Dropouts?
From: bitn@ellis.uchicago.edu (nathan elery bitner)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 18:38:36 GMT
Reply-To: bitn@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago

I know that is most likely not going to help TOO much, but I have a
suggestion to possibly curtail dropouts.  In the non-gunboat games,
if someone drops out without an explanation as to why and without
finding a replacement player, then their e-mail address should be
posted to rec.games.diplomacy (in a list format).  This would not be
intended as some kind of harassment, but rather it would alert Masters
to players who have dropped out of other games and perhaps those Masters
would request that no players on that list sign up for their new games.
Since mistakes occur sometimes (e-mail problems, etc.), perhaps no
names should be posted unless it happens twice.  But then again, how
could that be kept track of ... 

I'm not sure if anything like this would work or not, but I think it
would at least deter the people who drop out because their in a
"bad position", which I'm sure is the majority of dropouts.  This is the
worst problem in computer diplomacy -- we really have to think of
SOMETHING that will change the escalating trend of dropouts.

*-Nathan-*
.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                         INTER ARMA SILENT LEGES                      |
| "Worship Ditka NOW."                email:  bitn@midway.uchicago.edu |
|______________________________________________________________________|
From: mauht@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr A Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Re: English and French Alliance
Date: 26 Jan 1993 00:37:29 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cayenne.csv.warwick.ac.uk


In article <1993Jan25.221013.16800@fuug.fi>, an7844@anon.penet.fi writes:

|> 
|> One of my favourite games involved a wondering Austrian army.  It moved
|> into Mun in Autumn 1901, was thrown out by the Germans in Spring 1902,
|> retreated to Bur in Summer 1902 and then took Par in Autumn 1902!

That's nothing; in a six-player game I once played in (no Italy), a solitary
French army wondered into central Europe - Bohemia or Silesia or so - where
it got squashed by the combined efforts of five or six armies from three
countries... 

(The score at the end of 1906 [it was only an evening game], was something like:
England 5, France 7, Germany 5, Russia 4, Austria (me) 6, Turkey 5, Italy 2 - it
was being propped up by the French against me and the Turks... )
-- 
*****************************************************************
*Alexander Lewis "Second and Special" Jones - the terminal sloth*
*****************************************************************
From: ac999266@umbc.edu (ac999266)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: idiot savant judge
Date: 22 Jan 1993 14:40:07 -0500
Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County Campus
NNTP-Posting-Host: umbc8.umbc.edu

The full size Judge program burns a great deal of
 computer power, since it runs the entire game.
 This prevents many sites from setting up their
 own, yes?  

If so, a smaller version of Judge would be the 
 answer.  One that only adjudicates single game
 turns + sends back the results.  

I suppose this has already been thought of.  Just
 my $.02

Bizarro Francis Uy
From: gregt@carson.u.washington.edu (Greg Tanner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: re: New EFF game for *Dedicated* players
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:13:22 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

To All Dedicated Diplomacy Players:
***********************************

New unlisted EFF game:  for details, see previous postings.

   ***  3 players now signed on, still waiting for 4 more  ***
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: cman044@chpc.utexas.edu (Eva Simmons)
Subject: FRANCE available for Takeover in ELK
Organization: The University of Texas System - CHPC
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 01:10:26 GMT

Hi.  I'm playing FRANCE, but I don't care to continue
doing it.  Would anybody out there care to takeover?
Right now in ELK, I have 7 supply centers and I'm in
a very good position.  Let me know if you're interested
so I can time my resignation with your takeover.
			Thanks,
			   French Emperor

Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: swd0170@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Semper Paratus!)
Subject: Press...
Reply-To: swd0170@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 05:19:07 GMT

Greetings!


		Just had a quick question (hope it isn't a FAQ) about press on
the various judges...When sending press, I usually get a confirmation letter
saying, in a sense, that the message was sent and it gives a printout of it.
But on occassion, and on different judges, I've noticed that I did not get a
confirmation notice back...and yet it seems that the other player received a
letter from me anyway. Why does this happen? 



			
_______________________________________________________________________________
                                       |                                   
Scott W. Davis                         |  "The world is moving so fast these 
Rochester Institute of Technology      |  days that the man who says it can't
e-mail in%"swd0170@ritvax.isc.rit.edu" |  be done is generally interrupted by
                                       |  someone doing it."
Semper Paratus!    --Coast Guard Motto |                --Harry Emerson Fosdick
_______________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: magnus@solaris.astro.uu.se (Magnus Selhammar)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Re: New game Halden.
Date: 25 Jan 1993 22:07:38 GMT
Organization: Uppsala University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: solaris.astro.uu.se

Thank you for pointing out the error in the rules! The corrected
rules for the Uppsala variant is:

1) Votes on draws are not allowed.
2) The game stops when a player after Fall owns nine centers.
3) The player who owns most centers is the winner.
4) If one or more players reach nine centers the same year, 
and they own the same number of centers, there is a draw between 
those players. 

I hope they are correct now.

Magnus, (Moderator of Halden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy