HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Taranto-Zeleny on Clayton Cramer
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:47:17 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)

In article <9208121408.AA22120@cfdev1.shearson.com>, mtaranto@shearson (Mark Taranto) writes:
>If Professor McCarthy thinks that this infers that I believe that
>Clayton Cramer ought to believe that computers don't work in Asia,
>then I'm not surprised that he finds Clayton Cramer a more cogent
>reasoner, and offer this as proof of my claim that neither of them
>understand the rules of logical inference.

No no.  What you witnessed was a deep understanding of non-monotonic
logical reasoning.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Swiss Family Robinson mixup
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:58:08 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

When I was about ten, I read "The Swiss Family Robinson", and I
remember a section in which the family is under attack by Malay
pirates, and defends itself by releasing logs.  These logs allow
a tiger which was previously trapped in a pit to escape.

I recently reread the book, and found no trace of this scene.
Is there a different book with which I might have been confusing
this one, or might I have read a much-modified version of the book?
(I also remember the rescued girl's name as 'Roberta', rather than
'Jenny'.)

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   God helpe the man so wrapt in Errours endless traine  -- Edmund Spenser
From: dstein@oak.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Anybody read these trash books?
Date: 20 Aug 92 03:18:11 GMT
Reply-To: dstein@oak.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department

In article <x9!n+cn@lynx.unm.edu>, rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger
Squires) writes:

|> Stanislaw Lem
|> Eden
|> 	Well, I doubt if this one qualifies as a trash book, as I've
|> 	read 6 or 7 Lems and enjoyed them all.  The first I read was
|> 	_The Chain of Chance_, a wonderfully different mystery story,
|> 	and the last three (Fiasco, His Master's Voice, Solaris) were
|> 	all excellent explorations of misunderstandings between humans
|> 	and alien cultures and the resultant disasters (especially Fiasco).
|> 	I'm a big Lem fan and will read this one anyway, but was curious
|> 	about the opinions of others.

   I read this one recently, and  recommend it highly.  It starts somewhat
   slowly, and might seem formulaic (the characters are refered to by their
   vocation, i.e. The Engeneer, The Navigator, etc.), but in the end it all
   makes sense, and is well worth the time.  It will also be helpfull if you
   take into consideration the circumstances under which Lem was writing
   (post-Stalinist Poland, late 50s), and what the target of the book was.  
   The book is one of few sf works I read that managed to be both extremely
   topical _and_ timeless in its sf content. 

 - David

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not a native speaker of English, so I'm not sure what I wrote.
Flames will be ignored unless you post them in perfect Czech.
================================ - David (the metamathician) - ===
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban
From: usenet@inesc.pt (USENET News System)
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Reply-To: jota@iguana.UUCP (Joao Pedro Martins)
Organization: INESC - Inst. Eng. Sistemas e Computadores, LISBOA, PORTUGAL.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:26:27 GMT

In article <1992Aug10.220311.19300@rchland.ibm.com> jdahl@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Jared Dahl) writes:
>
>I've been waiting for days for someone to make reference
>to a babel fish and god "vanishing in a puff of logic!"
>
>All credit for this post rightfully belongs to Douglas Adams(HGTTG)

Oh... nobody will say that... the propability is 2.34E-9832... :-)

J

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: a brief introduction to reading news articles and counting up to 4
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:37:52 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

KGODDEN@cmsa.gmr.com wrote:
> jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
> I'm sure any good religious bookshop could find you Biblical parallel
> texts - the most extreme one of these I've seen had four languages to
> a page - the original with Syriac (?) and Latin as well as English.
> The Bible was written in neither Syriac, nor Latin.  The OT was in Hebrew,
> the NT in Greek.  There are small parts written in Aramaic as well.
> No other lgs as far as I know.

I don't normally reply to articles like that but I feel in a rather mean
mood at the moment...

I said it was in four languages.  Those I mentioned by name were:

	Syriac (raise forefinger)
	Latin (raise middle finger)
	English (raise ring finger)

then notice that your little finger is still curled up and see that I also
mentioned something else, "the original"...  reflect on what I might have
had in mind there...

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: crawford@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Asimov and the decay of SF
Organization: University of Chicago  AI Lab
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 05:30:45 GMT


I feel, as I think Keith and others do also, that "sci-fi" need not be about
Science in the narrow sense, i.e., the technical details of experimental
science, and/or technobabble.  Many of our great scientists also have
philosophical, spiritual and humanist concerns (Einstein springs to mind here).
 I see no reason not to recommend a book that explores the complexities of a
scientist's place in society, and indeed the role of philosophy/science in
society as a whole.

I think this was done in the spirit of the poster of the original request, part
of which I reproduce below:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In article <1992Jul24.194709.1844@sco.com> joannee@fscott.UUCP (Joanne Eglash)
writes:
>- 
>- Can anyone recommend fiction (both by authors in previous decades and
>- current writers) in which the subject of science and scientists is
>- handled intelligently?  Such as a book about a marine biologist, 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, we may not all agree on the definition of "handled intelligently", but I
think LeGuin, Butler and others do fit this description.

Peace,

Paul

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: evanh@sco.COM (Evan Hunt)
Subject: Re: Asimov and the decay of SF
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 01:45:01 GMT


Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian) writes:
>Chacun a son gout means "Each to his or her own taste." Sorry to complicate
>communications. Not everyone enjoys bilingual postings, but de gustibus non
>disputandum est.


Thank you. I was curious because it sounded like a phrase from a song by
Flanders and Swann that I could never make out. That meaning makes perfect
sense, so I think I was right. One less mystery in my life.

-- 
"I had generously shown on the stage my interior life as a raging beast, but
 my exterior life as a mediocre human being and dilettante of of normal int-
 elligence remained unchronicled...I *knew* that beneath my work's primeval,
 hysterical facade there was a calm little writer in an armchair just waiting
 to burst forth." -- Wally Shawn, on the writing of "My Dinner With Andre'"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,rec.arts.sf.misc
From: chris@state.COM.AU (Chris Keane)
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Organization: Group Treasury, State Bank of NSW
Date: 18 Aug 92 06:54:52 GMT

ara@wam.umd.edu (Ford Prefect) writes:

>IF THIS DOESN'T STOP, IM GOING TO START THE WORST CASCADE EVER.
WHILE EATING THIS SLOP, I SEWED THE FIRST BROCADE BEAVER.

Err...it wasn't me. Was it?
From: kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: I need a word
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:36:39 GMT
Organization: GE Corp. Research & Development, Schenectady, NY

In article <h2dy_gk@rpi.edu> kasprj@rpi.edu writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.051155.7735@leland.Stanford.EDU>, jchokey@leland.Stanford.EDU (James Alexander Chokey) writes:
>|> 
>|> 	I'm not sure, but I think that Jarea's comment may have been a very
>|> witty joke.  There is a city in NY called Schenectady (I think I got the 
>|> spelling right.)
> 
> There is no such city as Schenectady. It is as mythical as Kibo.
> 
> Synecdoche, NY is the home of the headquarters (and hindquarters) of 
>the Generous Eclectic Coprolite.


Wrong, you're thinking of Bridgeport, CT.

But, as a fellow alum of Kurt V's famous technological school
across the river, what do we know?


-- 
David Kassover             "Proper technique helps protect you against
uupsi!khazad!kassover	          sharp weapons and dull judges."
kassover@aule-tek.com                   F. Collins
kassover@ra.crd.ge.com
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:14541 rec.humor:25943 alt.folklore.urban:21316 rec.arts.sf.misc:2566 alt.religion.kibology:3452
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,rec.arts.sf.misc,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
From: pynq@quads.uchicago.edu (George Jetson)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:31:04 GMT
Reply-To: pynq@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: D. J. Dougherty & Associates

In article <1992Aug10.203035.27768@news.cs.brandeis.edu> st890270@pip.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
>>There *IS* SCIENTIFIC PROOF that man did not exist on the planet Earth
>>within 7 days of its creation.
>
>Nah, it's all a conspiracy. God created the Dinosaur bones to give the 
>planet a "lived in" feel

Actually, this is covered in depth in _Panati's Extraordinary Endings of
Practically Everything and Everybody_ (ISBN: 0-06-055181-X).
A fabulously funny and informative book, BTW, that everyone in this
group (that afu, by the way!) shoudl read.

When fossils were first developed, the religious Establishment went to
great lengths to explain their existence w/o repudiating the version of
creation given in Genesis.  A lot of it is absolutely hysterical.
(In, in fact, both senses of the word)

Here is a sample.

Under the heading "Why Adam Had a Navel, When the First Man Had No Mother", 
is the following:

>	Clergy of the day taught that Adam did indeed have a navel.
>Gosse, a member of the highly conservative Plymouth Brethren, reasoned
>that just as Adam's navel was the relic of a birth that never occurred,
>so too were fossils relics of animals that never existed - except in
>the mind of God, who created the earth replete with buried bones and
>skeletally etched rocks.  And he went farther, claiming that *all* the
>supposed signs of a vast antiquity - not merely fossils, but geological
>strata, the scratches from one ancient glacier sliding past another -
>were simply appearances.  God, for His own reasons, had created the
>world with an illusion of a former existence.

Then later he says:

>	Bringing added scientific scorn upon himself, Gosse advanced the
>idea that Adam was even created with urine already in his bladder and
>digested waste matter in his colon.  *Everything* was created as if it
>had a past.

I like this stuff - I don't know about you...

************************************************************************
Please don't drink the battery acid, it tastes bad and will hurt you.
Also, don't bite the tyres, especially when the bike is moving.
(Our lawyers made us put this in this manual.)

	- pynq@quads.uchicago.edu, who is still costing the net
	  hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars, every time he posts -
************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: pottera@infonode.ingr.com (Andrew Potter)
Subject: Re: I need a word
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:43:07 GMT

JAREA@UKCC.UKY.EDU writes:

>In article <1992Aug16.125522.14790@husc3.harvard.edu>
>zeleny@husc9.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny) writes:
> 
>>>>the vaguely Quinean, ontologically relativistic view of Tsvetan Todorov,
>>>>under which all tropes may be subsumed under synecdoche, depending on the
>>>                  "I swear I never heard the first shot"
> 
>     I always thought Synecdoche was a city in New York State
> 
> 

And "vaguely Quinean" no doubt refers to a dry T&T.  But what I
suggest the writer meant was, if you are looking for a word (see
subject line), he has plenty of them.  As yet, unfortunately, he
doesn't seem to have the one requested.  But then neither have I.

-- 
--
Andrew Potter
Intergraph
pottera@infonode.ingr.com
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:14945 rec.humor:26678 alt.folklore.urban:21863 rec.arts.sf.misc:2648
From: joltes@husc10.harvard.edu (Richard Joltes)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:46:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Aug21.094620.14976
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

st890270@pip.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
>
>two things. the heaven & hell concept is a new-fangled Christian idea, and we
>Jews still consider it a little cockeyed ]:{)

Dr. D.T. Suzuki, a noted Zen philosopher and well-known speaker, once opened
a lecture with a GREAT line about Christianity.  Standing in the hall, rubbing
his hands on his sides he said "God against man.  Man against God.  Man against
nature.  Nature against man.  God against nature.  Nature against God.  Very
funny religion!"

>as to why create people: nobody ever claimed god is immune to boredom.
>(or maybe, he has his reasons, but they are beyond our imagining. After all,
>can you actually imagine omnipotence?)

I've been a systems manager.  Nuff said? (bwaaahhaahahaha!)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dick "what was that about Lord Acton?" Joltes		joltes@husc.harvard.edu
Hardware & Networking Manager, Computer Services 	joltes@husc.bitnet 
Harvard University Science Center

"Mind you, not as bad as the night Archie Pettigrew ate some
sheep's testicles for a bet...God, that bloody sheep kicked him..."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: daggs@l42bb.jsc.nasa.gov (Clark)
Subject: Anybody Else Read History?
Organization: Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:03:11 GMT

	While I am not disinterested in the other topics under discussion I was
wondering if there are any fans of History and Historical Fiction present.  I
had previously been an SF/Fantasy reader and still enjoy the occaisional
diversion. However, 95% of my recreational reading (for the last few years) has
been historical in nature. There are quite a few here who say that characters
are what make the book interesting to them. I must agree and I have found
histories to be brimming with characters who were complete before the author
got the idea to write about them.

	Discussion welcome.


												Clark
  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,rec.arts.sf.misc
From: keithf@pacifier.rain.com (Keith Furrow)
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Organization: Pacifier BBS
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 08:12:11 GMT

In article <g60nbv2z@csv.warwick.ac.uk> csuah@warwick.ac.uk (~WISP at CU~) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.140604.19294@wam.umd.edu> ara@wam.umd.edu (Ford Prefect) writes:
>>In article <chris.714120892@rufus> chris@state.COM.AU (Chris Keane) writes:
>>>ara@wam.umd.edu (Ford Prefect) writes:
>>>
>>>>IF THIS DOESN'T STOP, IM GOING TO START THE WORST CASCADE EVER.
>>>WHILE EATING THIS SLOP, I SEWED THE FIRST BROCADE BEAVER.
>>BILE FITTING RIG STOP, LIE SPEWED THIRST LIVER !!!!
>IF YOU MUST CONTRIBUTE, AT LEAST DELIVER...
WHO MAY I ATTRIBUTE TO THIS BEASTLY SLIVER?
>
>>(it has begun) !!!!!
>>>Err...it wasn't me. Was it?
>>>
>>>
-- 
  _____                                                              _____
 /  o  \  ||Mutants for Nuclear Power||keithf@pacifier.rain.com ||  /  o  \
< \___/ > ||-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_|| < \___/ >
 \_____/  ||   Radioactive waste, Glowing stronger every day!   ||  \_____/
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: The Literary Canon
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 02:21:02 GMT

John McCarthy writes:

	Addendum to previous.  Mike Morris remarks that Hirsch's cultural 
	literacy is based on what is required to understand allusions in 
	the *New York Times*.  A partial experiment would be to look at 
	the allusions in a year of the *Times of India* and the *Japan 
	Times*.  Well, maybe a month would give enough data.

Isn't it obvious from their names that the *TofI* and *JT* are no more than
tokens of the inroads that Western Civilization has made in alien cultures?
A "Japanese novel" is, definitionally, a Western sign. Would it not be fairer
to direct the question at my Aboriginal (here insert ironic sigh) message
stick? The fact is that not Tom nor Mike nor even nor especially John -- for
reasons of lack of desire -- will ever escape from Western Civ because they 
do not know where the fence is.

							Fido
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Swiss Family Robinson mixup
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:55:51 GMT

In article <w2_nmda.dani@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:

>When I was about ten, I read "The Swiss Family Robinson", and I
>remember a section in which the family is under attack by Malay
>pirates, and defends itself by releasing logs....

>I recently reread the book, and found no trace of this scene.

It sounds as if you might originally have read a novelization of the
Disney movie, which does have such a scene.  All the Disney versions of
classic books would publish their own book tie-ins, following their
adaptation of the story rather than the original.

Jon Alan Conrad
From: rafem@gvlf7-e.gvl.unisys.com (Ralph Marrone)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Vollman"s Novels
Date: 21 Aug 92 11:40:48 GMT
Organization: Unisys Defense Systems, Great Valley Labs, Paoli, Pa

In article <1992Aug20.174858.22780@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> gxs11@po.CWRU.Edu (Gary Stonum) writes:
>
>In a previous article, br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col) says:
>
>>
>>I've just ordered YOU BRIGHT AND RISEN ANGELS and would appreciate
>>any opinions of it and other work by Vollman.
>
>For some reason unbeknownst to me, Vollman gets compared to
>Pynchon a lot, tho the two books I've read wouldn't at all
>suggest the link.  The editor for whom I do some book reviewing
>(I reviewed _The Ice-Shirt_) sent me a publicity release about
>his forthcoming book (title and topic escape me), and again
>the release spoke of him as Pynchonian.  Would this be
>_ . . . Angels_, which I haven't read?
>

The blurb on the cover of Vollman's short novel, _Whores For Gloria_,
compares him to Pynchon.  Is _...Angels_ the second volume in the
"Ice-Shirt" series?


Regards,

Ralph Marrone
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Taranto-Zeleny on Clayton Cramer
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: 13 Aug 92 01:14:22

Sorry but I didn't even read the whole piece, don't remember the
names of anyone involved and don't know whether an institution
was mentioned.  Also I plead the Fifth.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rooney@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael Sean Rooney)
Subject: Re: The Literary Canon & Women
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Summary: Think before you post 
Keywords: Gilman Fido sexism
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Distribution:  world
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 00:08:06 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.145500.20638@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>Maureen Wilkes writes:
>
>
>
>	This triggered a memory of THE YELLOW WALLPAPER (author??!?), a 
>	pre-feminist indictment of the 19th-century psychological practice 
>	of denying women access to books and stimulating conversation in 
>	order to give their poor little brains a rest -- when in fact all 
>	they needed was to be taken seriously.  The story traces the mental 
>	disintegration of a creative young woman ("high strung", according 
>	to the doctors her husband hired), who goes mad after being condemned 
>	to a life without reading or writing.  Her daydreams become 
>	nightmarish hallucinations under the tyrrany of the men who control 
>	her life.  Is anyone else familiar with this work?  My memories of 
>	it are rather sketchy.  Anyone know the author?  
>
>A woman, perhaps? Does it occur that the thesis behind this novel (?) is
>quite outrageously sexist? Are women so weak that they are driven mad by
>some assole who wants to play Svengali to his wife's Trilby (have I got
>this right?). The fact of the matter is that by the time the 19th Century
>rolled around, there were, and continued to be, a number of women writing
>(I'm talking about England, of course. Christ knows what was happening in 
>the Cradle of Democracy and Liberty). 
>
	Does it occur to our resident don that the novel in question
might be an autobiographical tale?  (Which it is.)  When was the last
time Francis endured pseudo-medical torture a la Charlotte Gilman's
"rest therapy"?  ("Those women writers!  How dare they imply that anyone
can't take a little personal torture!  How -- outrageously sexist!")
Not everyone lived in the aestheticized English upper classes which
tolerated women writers in the 19th century.


>							Fido
>
>

Cordially,

Michael Rooney

"8. Punishment as a means of creating memorry, either for the one who
     suffers it -- so-called "improvement" -- or for the witnesses."
From: barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Literary Canon
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:51:00 GMT
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute

>In article <14216@mindlink.bc.ca> Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian) writes:
>>Barclay Blanchard finds my attitude condescending and patronizing. I'm sorry to
>>have offended her, but that is a risk of trying to speak one's mind
>>frankly--and so speaking ought to be a compliment to the partner in the
>>conversation.

On reflection, I think that a large part of what I find offensive is that you're
referring to me in third person.


-- 
Barclay Elizabeth Blanchard    barclay@rail9000@gatech.edu
"I've been laughed at by some of the funniest people."
--Lissie, Alice Walker's _The Temple of My Familiar_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,soc.history
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: History for Valley gals
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:45:34

I don't think it will fly with the Valley Gals.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.