From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tom Li)
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 21:11:33 GMT


In article <1992Dec30.170251.7359@cbnews.cb.att.com>, liaohen@cbnews.cb.att.com (Heng-Hsin Liao) writes...
> 
>They don't say it not necessarily means they won't do it. Right? China never
>said it will use force if HK keeps the same pace toward democracy as now.
>"6 hours" is just a rumour. We are not dealing with a democratic government.
>Anything is possible. It doesn't matter we are going for independence or
>unification. We still need to prepare for a possible war.

Certainly anything is possible, I never say we should not prepare for a 
possible war but we have to take cost versus benefit into account. 

>One example, direct election for President is already a trend in Taiwan.
>China also shouted that they cannot bear with it. It is equivalent to
>independence. You think they are serious or just joking? Then what? Let's
>give up the idea to prevent a possible war? Definitely not. It doesn't
>matter what's their attitude. We do what we want and we need an
>excellent defense system for all the people's sake.

Personally I am in favor of direct election for President because I think it 
very democratic and effective way. I never thought it anything to do with 
independence but just part of political reform. 

I dont recall "China shouted that they cannot bear with it". Even so, CCP can 
say little because this is our political reform not DECLARATION of 
independence. 

>"De facto" implies "commonly accepted." Are we commonly accepted as an
>independent country? Are we really enjoy the current situation?

I mean "pragmatic independence". Do you think "Republic of Taiwan" will be 
commonly accepted? 

Enjoy is relatively speaking I am happy to see our political reform has made 
very good progress, our relations with foreign countries has been improving 
etc... Certainly there are many things need to be done.

>I am conservative on "we have nothing to lose." The "cooperation" you
>mentioned below might disappear. If we are talking about some 10-20 years
>later, China might be able to get most of Taiwan's market share if
>Taiwan is too slow on stepping further. China dominate Taiwan "peacefully."

Not only China but also Thailand etc other countries will catch up us if we 
dont move to upmarkets. It is just principle of economics and why this has 
anything to do with independence? Do you really think independence can 
avoid China's dominance? then how about Japan, just look at our trade 
deficit with Japan? How about S. Korea, our current competitor?

Can we get along with China?

>No timetable means "long term" I think. I prefer independence before "THEN"
>because we have no control when it is going to happen. To keep "status quo"
>for a long term is suicide to Taiwan. It blocks Taiwan from stepping further.
>I have no problem with unification in the long term (say 50-100 years).

Not necessary. I think we should make political move wisely based on the 
changes of situation. 

>I think your point is "Is it worthy to do something under the shadow of
>a possible war." My point is "Is it worthy not to do something we want
>under the shadow of a possible war?"

No, if Taiwan is determined to be returned to China say by UN resolution. Then 
I would say it is worth to proceed the war to protect what we have now. My 
argument is that since we already have "pragmatic" independence is it worthy 
just for the sake of changing name? Or just some people can not wait to get
rid of "Republic of China"?

>By the way, I think the war is always possible as long as we do things
>against Beijing's will. The question is who are they and who are we.
>This is different from looking for a good relationship with China.

Beijing's best wishful thinking is that Taiwan becomes part of PRC today. Will 
she get it? Of course not. If CCP forces us to unify then the war maybe 
inevitable.

>In my opinion, we need to do everything we can to get international
>recognitions and get into international organizations. Through this
>and people's hard working, Taiwan is likely to break through the
>current barrier faster. 

True, but the opinion for which approach to be taken can be very different. 

>If we were catched up by China someday, it
>would become an "unfair competition." Taiwan would be in danger at
>that time.

"unfair competition"? Why? 

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