From: sz@ccr.jussieu.fr (Said ZOUHDI p74372)
Subject: Re: Religious bickering and nonsence
Organization: Centre de Calcul Recherche 
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:54:42 GMT


In article <1993Jan18.233851.5715@trl.oz.au>, Aziz Faris writes
> In article <1993Jan18.180708.15658@jussieu.fr>, sz@ccr.jussieu.fr (Said ZOUHDI p74372) writes:
|>   
|>    Nevertheless, i ll be gratfull if Carasso and some others (commonly
|>    called Beni aami !) go to s.c.j or a.t.m and see if i am there.
|>    As for for the religious posting it depends, some of them are interesting 
|>    and dont forget, Ibaa, that a large majority of Arabs are muslims and that
|>    the civilisation you are talking about is an islamic civilisation and not
|>    an arabic one.


> My friend, you are incorrect. The civilisation you are claiming as Islamic
> civilisation existed for thousands of years before the rise of Islam. You 
> would have been correct by saying that civilisation aquired an Islamic
> character. You may be correct in making such a blanket statement
> if you apply it to certain areas of the Islamic world. Contrary to what you
> might beleive, Islam did not wipe out the civilisations of Greater Syria
> and Egypt, rather Islam used them.

> The Arabic culture, language, and character were heavily influenced by
> those that existed in Greater Syria and Egypt. You only need to look at the
> Arabic language, the language of Islam to see that it has been influenced
> heavily by Aramaic, Phoenician, Assyrian, and Egyptian. Did you study Arabic
> and its history?. I wonder. Did you study Arabic poetry and litrature before
> and after the rise of Islam?. I wonder too. I doubt that you know that the
> Arabic language and culture exist to this day not because of Islam, rather
> because of Chrsitian Arabs who inhereted that culture from their ancestors
> and yours also, and the language they shaped.
 
  I am a little surprised (my friend ? ), you Aziz Faris who knows
  all about Arabic and Islam !, are still confusing between Civilisation and 
  Culture ? If you take time to read what i wrote and stop thinking that 
  life is un-interrupted hostilities between Muslims and Christians, and
  ask around you any non arabic person, you 'll be told that it is Islam
  who gave rise to that civilisation. Indeed the Arabic language existed
  before ! (imagine people who never heard about Arabic, to whom Koran
  is given "bonjour le serieux !"). No Aziz, no one deny the islamic character 
  of our civilisation (exept for Arabic christians apparently)   

|>    at last i just want to observe that Ibaa seems to prefer Aziz to
|>    Hamza !! mais pourquoi ? 
> You leave Non-Muslims no choice.

  Once again, it s not true. What i said about destructive criticisme
  is available for Muslims and non-Muslims, even Ibaa is OK with me !

> Can you deny that you prefer a Pakistani
> or a Bangledesh Muslim over an Arabic Christian or Non-Muslim. Can you
> deny that you prefer a Westerner who converted to Islam over those who
> are Non-Muslims and were born in the Arabic world.

  No, I find this formidable (pas toi ?)

> This naturally leads us
> to apply Newton's law: "For every action there is an equal and opposite
> reaction". Those statements may not apply to all Muslims, however, the
> majority do uphold that view. Similarly Christians and Non-Muslims will bind 
> together and uphold such a view. The result is that the Arabic world is
> self distructing, Mulsims claim because Islam is not applied, Christians
> claim were are not given a chance, and the sane Non-religious are deemed

  "C est un faux probleme", Christians and non-religious are a minority
  in what you name the Arabic World, their opinions and beliefs must be 
  respected, but sorry to tell you that (n'y voyez rien de personnel),
  it is the majority who decides.

> Kuffar. However, I will tell you that I and Ibaa will defend you and Hamza 
> against a western Christian, 

   tres touche ,merci !

> I do not beleive you will defend either of us against a Turkish Muslim.

   you are wrong, Muslims (as you certainly know) have to defend all
   non muslim people living in the muslim state, and i am sure that
   Turkish Muslims are as kind as all other Muslims !

>A.Faris 

           Said Zouhdi


Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:6949 talk.politics.mideast:26324 soc.culture.jewish:26218