HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jkf@Franz.COM (Sean Foderaro)
Subject: handheld GPS in commerical airlines
Organization: Franz Inc., Berkeley, CA
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 14:10:42 GMT

  Has anyone tried to use one of the handheld GPS receivers from the 
inside of a commercial airliner?  Can you receive well enough through 
the window to determine your position?  
  Let's put aside the question of whether it is legal to turn on a GPS 
receiver inside a commercial airliner (as this has been discussed many times 
in rec.aviation).    I'm simply curious about the capabilities of the current
GPS receivers.  I'll probably never own a current generation GPS receiver 
but someday I'll buy the Casio Barometer-Altimeter-Thermometer-GPS watch.

-sean

From: hale@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bill Hale)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 17:25:09 GMT
Subject: Re: Casio Twin-Sensor Altimeter Watch
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.products


What the others have said is true.  The sample rate is pretty slow,
and the baro window doesn't work the way you would think.

So what I do is set mine for pressure altitude (set it on a day
near 29.92).  Then I leave it alone, correcting it 100'/.1" pressure
delta from standard.  It's amazingly close then.

Now what they really missed... on the older ones anyway... is no second
time zone so that you can set in Z time.  Would have traded one of the
stop watches for that (but not the count down one!)

The most fun one can have with it is checking cabin altitude in commercial
flights.



+Regards, Bill Hale;  hale@hpfclm.FC.HP.COM   [hplabs|hpfcla]!hpfclm!hale
+Thru ether-K0QA; In ether-BE33 N33HP CFIAIME A&P; Twisted pair 1-303-229-3037
+Snail: c/o HP UTD MS73 3404 E Harmony, Ft Collins, CO 80525 Incoming:40 44.2N
+105 33.1W; Pictures 303-229-6858
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.products
From: vblueste@babbage.ece.uc.edu (Val Bluestein)
Subject: Loran info
Organization: Unversity of Cincinnati, ECE Dept
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 03:01:56 GMT


Hi,
  Does any one know anything about the Skyline Voyager SportNav
Handheld Loran or any other low cost portable Loran/GPS units.
How long do they take to start up? Do they need to stationary or
can I turn it on in mid flight?  What I am mostly looking for is
a backup unit that I can use to find out where I am if I am giving
a friend a ride in unfamilier teritory.  I don't want to say
"Duh, I'm lost..."

Val Bluestein
vblueste@babbage.ece.uc.edu

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.products
From: dannyb@panix.com (Daniel Burstein)
Subject: ni-cads and "memory"
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 07:34:40 GMT
Organization: Panix, NYC

Not to get into -too- technical a discussion here, but the so-called
memory effect is -really- caused by OVERCHARGING the battery.

Once a nicad is fully charged, the extra energy you keep pumping in does
all sorts of nasty things.  If you're overcharge rate is low, then there
are some special chmical gizmos in the cell to kind-of dievert the extra
energy intojust enough heat to warm up the cell, without letting it get
too hot.

If the overcharge current is a bit higher, you get strange things
occurring to the electrodes, and this will reduce the effective output
until you fully discharge the cel, then you're back to normal

If the overcharge current is way too high, the cell overheats
dramatically, and some pretty ansty things happen.

The basic el-cheapo "overnight" cahrger is designed to pump power in at
what's called a "C/10" rat.  In other words, if you discharged the cell at
a rate that would use it up in one hour, that would be "C".  The charger
feed in power at 1/10th of "C", so you get a fully charged cell in more or
less twelve hours.  (these things are, of course, el-cheapos and ther eare
some losses as well).

The advantage of these chargers is that they are cheap.  Another advantage
is that if you keep a cell on overcharge at 1/10C, not too much inthe way
of bad things -should- happen.  (In reality it's NOT a good idea).
-------

If you want to charge your cells faster than the 1/10th rate, you NEED
safety controls.  the simplest watches the cell temperature - once it
starts heating up (as opposed to a mild warming), it means the cell has
hit full charge.
  The problem with this is that you've already been heavy duty
overcharging the cell for, say, ten minutes, before the temp sensor kicks
in....
-----

Therarelots of other tricks you can do to set up a rapid, ANDSAFE,
charging, but they cost more.

-------
further info avail by e-mail

dannyb@panix.com
----------

sidenote:  Do NOT allow nicad "batteries" (which are collections of cells)
to go to full discharge.  Reason: some cells will be at "0" before others,
and will get reverse-polarity charged, and this is BAD, verry BAD.
   however, if you discharge them by running your radio, then it's ok. 
reason: the radio will "cut out" a long time before the battery pack is
fully dead.  A flashlight, on the other hand, won't
From: falk@peregrine.Sun.COM (Ed Falk)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.products
Subject: Re: NiCad charge/recharge (was Re: Using a handheld ...)
Date: 28 Dec 1992 19:20:46 GMT
Organization: Sun
NNTP-Posting-Host: peregrine

In article <1992Dec17.181534.13590@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Charles.K.Scott@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott) writes:
>
>I'll have to check my cordless drill manual but I swear I read that I
>should discharge the thing completely before recharging.

My cordless phone manual definately says to occasionally discharge the
batteries all the way.  My cordless phone now has dead batteries.

		-ed falk, sun microsystems
		 sun!falk, falk@sun.com
	"Towards the end, the smell of their air began to change"
From: rkjohnson@lbl.gov (Rob Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.products
Subject: Re: Ear protection for small children
Followup-To: rec.aviation.products
Date: 23 Dec 1992 18:22:39 GMT
Organization: lbl
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.253.40

In article <1992Dec22.164752.9446@exlog.com>, dave@exlog.com (Dave
St.Clair) wrote:
 
> What does one do for ear protection for a 2 and 4 year old?  Are there any >headsets just for the little ones?  Or should we just try earplugs?
 
I fly with my 18 month old in our C172L.  He's not yet old (large) enough
for a headset so we've focused on low-tech approaches aimed at reducing the
noise level below the damage threshold in a comfortable fashion.  When he
was quite young, I simply cut a tennis ball in half and put a strip of
adhesive-backed foam around each rim to provide a comfortable seal (this
stuff is readily available in hardware stores as weather stripping).  Since
he slept most of the time in the plane we could keep the "cups" in place
over each ear with a hat (either the full nelson variety or one that has
ear flaps).  We have recently switched to the foam earplugs, cut to fit,
and keep them in place with a custom strap ordered through one of the many
child safety oriented catalogs (Safety First, I think).  They sell the
strap together with a set of wax earplugs (which I don't use) as an aid for
swimmers. The strap is light and comfortable enough that my son isn't
constantly trying to pull it off and he doesn't seem to mind the ear plugs.

   
Rob Johnson
rkjohnson@lbl.gov
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.products
From: verhulst@raven.aosg.gsf.dec.com ()
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever bought from "AdultToys"
Keywords: usa
Organization: AOSG
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:29:40 GMT

>I'm thinking about buying a Peltor 7004 headset from AdultToys of Chino, CA.   
>They are advertising them for $199.95 with a free leather headset case.  I'd  
>like to hear from anyone who has had any experience (good or bad) with this  
>organization. 

I've ordered twice from them with good results.  Note that they have a $10.00
shipping charge - which is higher than most of their competitors.  Even
Sporty's charges less - if you can imagine that.

Tony V.
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Sunday, 27 Dec 1992 23:55:32 EST
From: Irv Konfield <IRVK@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.products
Subject: Re: Casio Twin-Sensor Altimeter Watch
Distribution: world

The watch was NOT designed to be used for aviation; its response
time for pressure changes is much too slow to be a substitute for
standard instruments.  The advertised jargon was hype by someone
who had not handled the watch or read its directions.  What it
IS very good for is acting as a recording barograph.  In one
display mode it presents a clear digital graph of changes in
atmospheric pressure over the the previous 12 hours, e.g.,

                   :            . :
                   :           .  :
                   :          .   :
                   :         .    :
                   :       .      :
                   :    .         :

The watch can be used for "predicting" weather changes or estimating
altitudes when hiking.  The thermometer takes 20-30 minutes to
equlibrate after its off your wrist; a marginally useful attribute.
It is a neat piece of technology though a bit oversized for the
wrist.

Irv

Irv Kornfield
Dept. of Zoology
University of Maine    tel: 207-581-2548
Orono, ME 04469-5751   fax: 207-581-2537
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.products,rec.video
From: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.products
Subject: Loran info
Date: 30 Dec 92 21:12:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Advanced Computer Concepts BBS, New Rochelle, NY 914-654-1981
Reply-To: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 

VB> .Hi,
  > .  Does any one know anything about the Skyline Voyager SportNav
  > .Handheld Loran or any other low cost portable Loran/GPS units.
  > .How long do they take to start up? Do they need to stationary or
  > .can I turn it on in mid flight?  What I am mostly looking for is
  > .a backup unit that I can use to find out where I am if I am giving
  > .a friend a ride in unfamilier teritory.  I don't want to say
  > ."Duh, I'm lost..."

I have the Voyager SportNav.  I can heartily recommend that you save
your money and get a Garmin 55 GPS.  It's so much better in so many ways
that you wouldn't believe it.

Yes, it's more than twice the cost of the SportNav.  But it works
reliably and the SportNav doesn't.  It has higher accuracy.  If you
spend the extra $100 to get the database unit, you've got a gazillion
waypoints set into the unit.  If you walk with the Garmin, it'll tell
you which way, and how fast, with very little lag.  The dynamics of the
SportNav are dreadful.  Wait two minutes and it'll give you an average
speed and direction which doesn't bear much resemblance to reality.

The Garmin is a useful nav. device when flying.  The SportNav isn't.

I don't think my comparison was too subtle for you to detect my
feelings.  Spending a couple of hundred bucks on a SportNav is wasting a
couple of hundred bucks that would be better spent on a portable GPS.  I
think the Garmin is the best, but there are lots of portable GPS units
available, and the worst of them is far better than the SportNav, or any
other portable Loran that I've played with.

        D/
---
 . QMPro 1.0 41-3345 . Bring back A-N airways!!    Dick.Zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com
                                                                                                                        
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.products
From: david@infopro.com (Dragon [David Fiedler])
Subject: Re: Ear protection for small children
Organization: InfoPro Systems: Writers, Consultants, and Dragons
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 04:07:51 GMT
Keywords: Earplugs, HeadSets

dave@exlog.com (Dave St.Clair) writes:

>What does one do for ear protection for a 2 and 4 year old?  The've
>flown with me a few times (local) and really enjoy it -- especially
>my 4 year old.  The only problem is the noise level.  As I'm about
>ready to purchase a plane (cherokee 180), I thought I'd check the
>net.experience.

Well, we've been flying with Scott (now 3 1/2) since before he was born
(made it hard for mommy to get a good landing flare :-) in *our* Cherokee
180. At the beginning, since he didn't like the idea of anything in his
ears, we would use earplugs, putting them in after we got to altitude, and
taking them out before the descent (you gotta be careful to do this or bad
things could happen). As he got older, he wanted a headset like we had, so
now he's using a set of Peltor "earmuff" noise protectors, which are very
light and don't clamp hard on the head. Don't confuse this with the Peltor
*headset*; it's virtually the same except (a) no microphone or speakers
and (b) costs about $24.

Also, getting your prop balanced quiets the plane a lot, and isn't bad for
the airframe, radios, and engine either. 

Have fun!
-- 
David Fiedler UUCP:infopro!david Internet:david@infopro.com or david@utoday.com 
USMail:InfoPro Systems, PO Box 220 Rescue CA 95672 Phone:916/677-5870 FAX:-5873
"Do I still have to sleep in the cupboard?"                        
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.products
From: fraser@mdd.comm.mot.com (Cameron Fraser)
Subject: Re: handheld GPS in commerical airlines
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 05:59:01 GMT

i've tried on a trip to europe and could only acquire one or two satellites
using motorola's traxar....
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cameron Fraser          fraser@mdd.comm.mot.com
Mobile Data Division    (604) 241-6092        (604) 241-6030 FAX
Vancouver, B.C. CANADA  (800)-999-8279 CDN    (800) 678-7634 USA
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.products,rec.video
From: cmfb@cray.com (Chris Bone)
Subject: Accessories
Followup-To: cmfb@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research Inc
Date: 28 Dec 92 13:59:24 CST


I will be buying a Sony TR81 or TR101 (or clone) soon and would appreceate
any suggestions for what accessories I should consider.
Thanks,
-- 
           __
          /  ) /             
         /    /_  __  o _
        (__/ / /_/ (_/_/_)_ Z*Mail - Simm-City for all platforms
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.products
From: hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong)
Subject: Re: Evolution GPS?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 00:40:22 GMT

From article <1h839fINNlop@gap.caltech.edu>, by dlisoski@bluff.galcit.caltech.edu (Derek L. Lisoski):
> Does anyone have any information on the new Evolution handheld GPS?
> It sounds very good - $850, portable, FULL database (including COM frequencies)  
> of all public and all paved private airports, navaids and intersections,  
> updatable by your own PC...
> I would assume that it is based on their Pocket Flight Planners, but I am  
> wondering how much of the flight planner functionality is included...
> derek

Does it have a graphics LCD display (he, he, he)? 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.products
From: doshay@ursa.arc.nasa.gov (David Doshay)
Subject: Re: Ear protection for small children
Keywords: Earplugs, HeadSets
Organization: NASA-Ames Biocomputation Center
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 23:06:31 GMT

One of the things we did when our little one was even littler was to
have an audiologist make a pair of custom fit ear plugs. I do not think
it was worth the cost ($55) because they were outgrown too quickly. Now 
that the child is 22 months, we have no problem with using Peltor Cabin-
Mates. They do not have speakers, but do provide hearing protection. I
use them in my woodshop when we are not flying. My child knows when we are
going to go flying  (... fyying!!...) and goes to get the "heasets" (said
with hands cupped over the ears). The headsets stay on from engine start
to engine shutdown, with only a small amount of encouragement. We also tried
foam earplugs (pulled right out) and an older set of SoftCom c40, but the
child refused to keep those on, even though there was obvious joy over
hearing Mommy and Daddy through the speakers. I found the SoftComs 
uncomfortable, and clearly I was not alone. (We use Peltor 7004s now)

Sporties also carries a slightly less expensive model, the only difference
is that the Cabin-Mates fold up into small eggs just like the Peltor 7003/4
while the cheaper stay big like normal headsets. The difference in price
is a few dollars. I paid $16 for the Cabin-Mates at an airport shop.

David		doshay@soma.arc.nasa.gov

The thought police insist I tell you:
my thoughts, not NASA's
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.products
From: barnett@convex.com (Paul Barnett)
Subject: Re: Ear protection for small children
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:31:07 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Keywords: Earplugs, HeadSets
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1992Dec22.164752.9446@exlog.com> dave@exlog.com (Dave St.Clair) writes:

>Does anyone with small kids use headsets?  When I fly without kids
>(just me and my wife), we both don our FlightCom 5DX's.
>Highly recommend these. We've thought about buying the low end FlightComs
>for the kids.  Are there any headsets just for the little ones?
>Or should we just try earplugs?

The headsets are probably too big for them now... maybe later.  I've
flown with small children in the back seat a few times: take them out
of the car... child seat and all, and strap 'em in.

The standard foam earplugs will work, but you need to trim them a
little bit with a pair of scissors.  Keep an eye on them (better to
have your right-seater keep an eye on them), for they pop out easily.
At that age, protecting their hearing is VERY important.
--
Paul Barnett
MPP OS Development
Convex Computer Corp.
Richardson, TX
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.products
From: serafin@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Mike Serafin)
Subject: Re: Ear protection for small children
Keywords: Earplugs, HeadSets
Organization: TI Semiconductor Process and Design Center
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:54:12 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.164752.9446@exlog.com> dave@exlog.com writes:
>
>(I originally tried to post this to .products and crosspost to .owning --
>apparently it only made it to the crosspost.  So I'm trying again).
>
>What does one do for ear protection for a 2 and 4 year old?  The've
>flown with me a few times (local) and really enjoy it -- especially
>my 4 year old.  The only problem is the noise level.  As I'm about
>ready to purchase a plane (cherokee 180), I thought I'd check the
>net.experience.
>
>Does anyone with small kids use headsets?  When I fly without kids
>(just me and my wife), we both don our FlightCom 5DX's.
>Highly recommend these. We've thought about buying the low end FlightComs
>for the kids.  Are there any headsets just for the little ones?
>Or should we just try earplugs?
>
>Any opinions/experiences welcome.

I use a set of Peltor 7004s for my 4 year old and they work fine. The headband
is designed so that it can be adjusted to fit a very small head.
From: dlisoski@bluff.galcit.caltech.edu (Derek L. Lisoski)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.products
Subject: Evolution GPS?
Date: 22 Dec 1992 22:02:23 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: na
Reply-To: dlisoski@cco.caltech.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: bluff.galcit.caltech.edu

Does anyone have any information on the new Evolution handheld GPS?
It sounds very good - $850, portable, FULL database (including COM frequencies)  
of all public and all paved private airports, navaids and intersections,  
updatable by your own PC...
I would assume that it is based on their Pocket Flight Planners, but I am  
wondering how much of the flight planner functionality is included...
derek
From: lee@deneb.sw.stratus.com (Lee Cooprider)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.products
Subject: Re: ANC Headsets
Date: 21 Dec 1992 18:22:49 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: deneb.sw.stratus.com
Keywords: ANC, Headsets

In article <1992Dec19.171758.24236@news.cs.indiana.edu> "Chris Haynes" <chaynes@sunfish.cs.indiana.edu> writes:
>In the cord there's a rectangular power module containing nicads, charger,
>volume control, jack for cig lighter power cord...

My cigarette lighter is filled with the intercom power plug.  a) any problems
with additional loads through lighters? (I wouldn't think so, given the load
of the original occupant of the cigarette lighter hole).  b) has anybody seen a
cigarette lighter cord that splits into 2 or more sockets?
-- 
Lee W. Cooprider				PP-ASEL/IA
Lee_Cooprider@vos.stratus.com			Skylane N2908F "Wiley"
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.products
From: ark@s1.gov (Alene Kercheval)
Subject: Re: Ear protection for small children
Originator: ark@s1.gov
Keywords: Earplugs, HeadSets
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Lab
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:32:29 GMT


In article <1992Dec22.164752.9446@exlog.com>, dave@exlog.com (Dave St.Clair) writes:
|> 
|> (I originally tried to post this to .products and crosspost to .owning --
|> apparently it only made it to the crosspost.  So I'm trying again).
|> 
|> What does one do for ear protection for a 2 and 4 year old?  The've
|> flown with me a few times (local) and really enjoy it -- especially
|> my 4 year old.  The only problem is the noise level.  As I'm about
|> ready to purchase a plane (cherokee 180), I thought I'd check the
|> net.experience.
|> 
|> Does anyone with small kids use headsets?  When I fly without kids
|> (just me and my wife), we both don our FlightCom 5DX's.
|> Highly recommend these. We've thought about buying the low end FlightComs
|> for the kids.  Are there any headsets just for the little ones?
|> Or should we just try earplugs?
|> 
|> Any opinions/experiences welcome.
|> 
|> dave st.clair
|> dave@exlog.com
|> 
|> 

My six year okd uses both a headset and the foam ear plugs.  She complained
of the noise level in our Musketeer with only one of the two.

	Alene Kercheval
From: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.products
Subject: handheld GPS in commerica
Date: 1 Jan 93 14:20:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Advanced Computer Concepts BBS, New Rochelle, NY 914-654-1981
Reply-To: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 

SF> .  Has anyone tried to use one of the handheld GPS receivers from the
  > .inside of a commercial airliner?  Can you receive well enough through
  > .the window to determine your position?

Yes, it has been tried, and has worked.  There would have to be a
sufficient number of satellites 'visible' through the window, which
significantly reduces the probability of success, but it worked.

        D/
---
 . QMPro 1.0 41-3345 . Bring back A-N airways!!    Dick.Zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com
From: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.products
Subject: Wanted info: GPS Systems
Date: 1 Jan 93 14:26:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Advanced Computer Concepts BBS, New Rochelle, NY 914-654-1981
Reply-To: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 

JL> .   I am curious about GPS systems.....how much are they, how reliable,
  > .etc.  If you have a used one and would like to sell, or have heard of a go
  > .deal on one, please email me.  I don't even know where to look or what
  > .features to look for.  It will eventually be used on a motorcycle trip
  > .through the Americas, if that is helpful....

GPS is the greatest thing since sliced bread.  <~>  It's far superior to
anything else, and is the only reliable source of altitude information
that you're likely to encounter on your trip.

The basic feature set is fairly similar on all the units.  The leading
contenders are Trimble, Magellan, and Garmin.  All of them have
hand-held units with similar capabilities.  I'd rank Garmin first, then
Trimble, then Magellan.  Sony also makes a unit (Pyxis) and it works,
but is pretty far down on the list.  It's probably the cheapest, since
it does not get good reviews.

Enjoy the trip...

        D/
---
 . QMPro 1.0 41-3345 . Bring back A-N airways!!    Dick.Zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com
                                                                                                             
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.products