HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill)
Subject: Re: Dune group or mailing list
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written
Organization: Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 04:03:22 GMT

In article <131592@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> futor@llnl.gov (randy j futor) writes:
> urlichs@smurf.sub.org (Matthias Urlichs) writes:
>> 
>>  alt.fan.frank-herbert . . .
>
>That's the one, Matthias.
>--
Yes, I agree.  

---tom

l~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~l
l      CRUSH---CompassionRespectUnderstandingSelfHonesty---CRUSH      l
l         How could you have ever lived your life without it?         l
l               Join Now, Apply Within.  Spread the word.             l
l____________________________      ---me, trying to save the world,   l
l wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca l                      from itself.       l
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: warda@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Lovecraft Thread
Date: 21 Jul 92 20:32:19 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster

> This should be the time to mention my personal favorite among the
> great purveyors of scares and lurid prose-
> Clark Ashton Smith (no relation) who IMHO constantly out Lovecraft's
> Lovecraft, out Poe's Poe, out Hawthorne's Hawthorne, and is largely
> ignored by today's generation!
> I'm not even sure he's still in print.
> I'm holding on to my dog-eared volumes.
> 

I have to concur - I tried to talk my brother out of his battered Sphere 
paperback copy of "Out of Space and Time Vol 2" but he wasn't having it.  
Reading my copy of the first volume gave him severe nightmares, but, with the
benefit of a few years, he decided he liked CAS after all, the swine.   He 
doesn't appear to be in print at all these days, while Lovecraft goes from 
strength to strength.  

TANJ

   Bill Bennett                           JANET: warda@uk.ac.oxford.vax    
   CRC Growth Factors Research Group   Internet: warda%vax.oxford.ac.uk
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: BOOKS BY DAVID EDDINGS
Date: 27 Jul 92 12:22:01 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Jul27.000813.27357@highlite.uucp> yarvin@highlite.uucp  
(Curtis Yarvin) writes:
> In article <5105@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  
writes:
> >In article <1992Jul23.214606.272@highlite.uucp> yarvin@highlite.uucp  
> >(Curtis Yarvin) writes:
> >> 
> >> Before everyone smirks, I should point out that Eddings does do
> >> characters better (IMHO) than many of the "greats" of old-time sf.
> >> Can you honestly call Eddings' characters weaker than Tolkien's?
> >> E.E. "Doc" Smith's?  Asimov's?  Even (heresy) Heinlein's?
> >
> >Yes.  No. Probably. Yes.
> 
> A laconic response; but (as would have been so anyway) I'm not  
convinced.
> 
> I'm puzzled most by your defense of Tolkien; he has his merits, but few
> would place characterization among them.  Tolkien's characters have few
> human drives; where he actually tries to humanize them (the hobbits,
> Boromir), the result is plastic and unreal, or simply unconvincing.   
For
> the most part they're thin and melodramatic, so cardboard as to inflate
> the term.  Would you really call Aragorn, Gandalf, Theoden, Saruman,  
even
> Legolas and Gimli, credible and well-filled characters?

I disagree. I think the hobbits are anything but plastic and unreal.
I think they are very nicely done characters.  As for "few
would place characterization among [his merits]," I'd suggest that
you read Ursula Le Guin's essay on Tolkein sometime, where she states
that she is always surprised by those who call Tolkien a simple
writer, since he is anything but.

I would also call Legolas, Gimli, Aragorn, and (in their own ways)
Gandalf and Theonden, reasonable characters.

> And Heinlein?  I'm not the first to notice that Heinlein drew
> from a three-bit character palette, and I wouldn't be the first
> to call his female characters "men with tits."  This fight has
> been fought already, and there's no reason to refight it.  Suffice
> it to say that I'm right and you're not.

Gee, I'm glad you're such an expert on this.  Heinlein has created
a number of good characters. He may like to empahasize characters
who have certain traits (and his characterizations of women aren't
as good as those of his men) but that does not mean he could not
create good characters.


--
Jim Mann       jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  Stratus Computer
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton)
Subject: Locus Poll Results Re: Rating the Hugo Nominees
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 00:23:21 GMT

As a matter of interest, Locus released the results of their reader
poll.  It got 920 responses, so we aren't going to come close to that.

For best novel, Barrayar, with Xenocide a *very* close second.
Next came Bone Dance, the Summer Queen, All the Weyrs of Pern and
Stations of the Tide -- so Locus' top 6 were also the Hugo nominees
top 6.   I had felt that Barrayar, as a series book was an unlikely
winner since the voters would not want Vor Game to repeat.  However,
I now predict Barrayar will win the Hugo.  (After all, that would be only
2 Hugos for the Vorkosigan novels vs. 3 for the Ender novels.)
(If Card does win, the 3 straight Hugos for 3 straight novels in a series
will be an astounding feat.)


For novella, the one I thought was the sure winner (Having won the
Nebula and the Asimov's poll), "Beggars in Spain" came in distant 2nd to
"The Gallery of His Dreams"  (which I didn't like)

"All Dracula's Children" won novelette, and #2 was "Fin de Cycle" which
also didn't thrill me.  My personal choice, "Understand" was 13th.


On to the Short stories.  I don't want to give up much, so I will just
say the the results differ a fair bit from ESF voting.

The winner is "Buffalo"  -- Clearly Locus readers think this story is
quality SF even if net folks find that debatable.

Other Hugo Nominees finished:
	#4) Creatceous
	#5) Press Ann
	#10) Winter Solstice
	#13) One Perfect Morning, with Jackals
	#18) A Walk in the Sun
	#21) Dog's Life


Brown considers his readership to be closer to the Hugo voters than the
Nebula voters, though the above doesn't say that.  However, in some categories
nebula nominees didn't even make his cut.
-- 
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: tomw@orac.esd.sgi.com (Tom Weinstein)
Subject: Re: The Moat around God's Eye
Reply-To: tomw@esd.sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc.
	<NICKH.92Jul23075557@VOILA.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU>
	<1992Jul24.065526.10752@oracle.us.oracle.com>
	<1992Jul24.164152.10280@wpi.WPI.EDU>
Date: 24 Jul 92 22:59:16

In article <1992Jul24.164152.10280@wpi.WPI.EDU>, jsinger@ascoli.WPI.EDU (Joel Singer) writes:

> Actually, this idea of hiding out in the Oort cloud might prove a possible way
> for an enterprising (read:  Crazy Eddie) master to try and break the Cycles.
> The Oort cloud may not be habitable, but say one master decides to send his
> entire "family," including himself, on a long round-trip cometary orbit 
> through the Oort cloud.  (They have the suspended-animation techniques from
> the original light-sail probe.)  The master times his ship to come back in the
> middle of the Moties' most savage period of breakdown, whereupon with his own
> loyal Warriors he takes over the planet.  His last step is to impose the birth
> control hormonal shots for all other Masters except himself and direct, loyal
> progeny.  He's got the entire planet under his thumb, with control of the
> Warriors, mediators, and all masters.  Bingo.  Cycles broken.

> Oh, yeah, there might be some practical problems along the way, but in theory
> this ought to work.  Any suggestions as to why it hasn't happened?

I see two problems:

1) All the other masters blow him away when they figure out what he's up
   to.  The want to protect their own genetic heritage, no?

2) The mediators call 'Crazy Eddie' on him, and turn him in before he
   even gets off the planet.

--
Love is a conveyor belt of   |   Tom Weinstein  tomw@orac.esd.sgi.com
warmth  -- Jackie Chan       |                  tomw@bears.ucsb.edu
From: PANDERSON@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Dick bio
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:04:27 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico

Look in Contmporary Authors New Revised Series Vol 16

Peter Anderson
panderson@oavax.csuchico.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: wak4@ellis.uchicago.edu (Valentine)
Subject: Re: Have Niven&Pournelle described Alderson drive anywhere?
Reply-To: wak4@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 03:37:00 GMT

In article <62674@cup.portal.com> tegan@cup.portal.com (Terry Michael Egan) writes:
>
>	I recall overhearing somewhere ( a con maybe ?? ) that the
>authors of 'A Mote in Gods Eye' figured out the so-called
>Alderson Drive and wrote it down in one of their books. Does anybody
>know the title of this book? Has rec.arts.sf.written analyzed this drive?
>Thanks.
>


This sounds like a job for *.sf.science!!!! Dun dun DUN!



Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup)
Subject: Re: Asprin's "Myth" books
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 06:01:58 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.233605.19023@ptcburp.ptcbu.oz.au> michi@ptcburp.ptcbu.oz.au (Michael Henning) writes:
>I recently noticed a the "Myth" book series by Robert (?) Asprin in a book
>shop. From the blurb on the cover and the presentation, it seems that they
>are similar to Pratchett's Disc World series, if not a rip-off of these.

Rip-off? I don't think so. The first Myth-book (Another Fine Myth) was
published in 1978, and the first of the Discworld-series (The Colour of
Magic) came out in 1983. Pratchett is a bit more prolific than Asprin
(12 Discworld books against 9 Myth series in 2/3 the time).

>Can anyone tell me whether they are worth reading. Up to the same standard
>as Pratchett?

Worth reading? Well, the first couple of books are certainly very funny,
although they do fall down a bit after that. Both Discworld and Myth are
humorous fantasy with caricatures of familiar concepts, but the ways they
go about it are rather different. Discworld is situated in a fantasyverse
while Myth has a multiverse as its backdrop.

I'd recommend getting the first couple of books (Another Fine Myth, Myth
Conceptions, Myth Directions and perhaps Hit or Myth) and then judge for
yourself.

Asprin has claimed, I think, that the first Myth book is one of the first
light/caricature fantasy. Does anybody know if that is correct?

Greetings,
--Mike

-- 
#include <std-disclm.h>--"... and there is a small flaw in my character."---
Real Life: Michael Christian Heide Qvortrup      A Dane         ETH, Zuerich
e-mail   : qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch                  abroad         Switzerland
Institut fuer wissenschaftliches Rechnen  /  Inst. of Scientific Computation
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: morrow@fnalo.fnal.gov (Jor-Elmo)
Subject: Re: List of voters in ESF award so far
Organization: Lara's Kandorian Take-Out
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 05:37:05 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalo.fnal.gov
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Jul30.025427.7848@math.ucla.edu>, troly@redwood.math.ucla.edu (Bret Jolly) writes:
[About A Walk in the Sun]
>            The astronaut has to go on this trek because her
>         spacesuit is powered by solar cells, so it is no good
>         if she lets the sun go down on her.  
>	  [...] I don't believe she could
>         travel 11000 km in a month, on foot, in a spacesuit,
>         lugging her food and gear along.  (Her trek roughly
>         follows the lunar equator.)  The Moon has low surface

	It occurs to me that the astronaut might have been able to save
herself about half the walk by jogging to one of the poles.  Don't recall
the moon's axial tilt, so perhaps no "Midnight Sun" effect, but at the very
least a circumnav is a lot shorter at high latitudes.
-- 
"I'd like to interject a comment here: eeeeeekkkkkkkkk.  That's it." 
--Hatchetman

elmo (morrow@fnal.fnal.gov,morrow@physics.rice.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.book,rec.arts.sf.written
From: mab@wdl39.wdl.loral.com (Mark A Biggar)
Subject: Re: **WANTED: Fantasy Book Club Info**
Organization: Loral Western Development Labs
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 22:49:41 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.052524.5659@CS.ORST.EDU> valhert@mist.CS.ORST.EDU (valhert) writes:
>I am interested in Fantasy Hardback books.  So I would like
>to join a club that offer it.  I am especially interested in
>buying books by Raymond Feist.

Despite its name the Science Fiction Book Club offers about half
fantasy.

--
Mark Biggar mab@wdl1.wdl.loral.com

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: merritt@provolone.bchem.washington.edu (Ethan A Merritt)
Subject: Cyberspace (was Re: Gibson's _agrippa_: Not A Hoax)
Reply-To: merritt@u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:51:02 GMT


In article <1992Jul22.165925.3683@tronsbox.xei.com>,
dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com (Dennis Heffernan) writes:
|> In article <1992Jul21.184809.24166@clarinet.com> brad@clarinet.com
(Brad Templeton) writes:
|> |The concept of cyberspace was first developed, as far as I know, in
|> |the Doctor Who episode, "The Deadly Assassin" in 1976, and as a written
|> |SF treatment by Vernor Vinge in his superb novella "True Names."
|> 
|> 	I think John M. Ford beat Dr. Who to it, with WEB OF ANGELS.
                                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
_WEB OF ANGELS_ is one of my all-time favorites.  I've never thought of the
analogy to _The Deadly Assasin_, but I agree that it is a similar conception
of what we have come to call "cyberspace".  

However, I think that one element which was central to WEB OF ANGELS 
seems to have dropped out of more recent treatments: In WOA the concept
of a cybernetic mileu which one "programs" by thinking works in both
directions;  machine entities on the cybernetic side can similarly
"program" the human wetware/mind while the connection is active.  Am I
just forgetful and overlooking more recent developments of this idea?
Can anyone point me to cyberpunk (or other) stories in which even a 
passive observer of the virtual reality risks having his mind re-programmed?

					Ethan A Merritt
					merritt@u.washington.edu
From: dac@prolix.pub.uu.oz.au (Andrew Clayton)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Author Polls -- Fred Pohl
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 10:57:22 GMT
Reply-To: munnari!labtam!eyrie!prolix!dac
FollowUp-To: rec.arts.sf.written
Keywords: 
Organization: More like Dis~, really.

In article <92202.092330IOR@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, Thomas Hyer writes:

> Welcome to the author polls.  This week's author is Fred
> Pohl.

Starburst         + 3
Gateway <series>  + 2
The World At the End of Time + 1
Annals of the Heechee  - 1


Dac
--
munnari!labtam!eyrie!prolix!dac      David Andrew Clayton.           // _| _  _
  prolix!dac%eyrie@labtam.oz.au      Canberra, Australia           \X/ (_](_](_
        dac@prolix.pub.uu.oz.au      I post .
prolix!dac@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au            . . I am.             +61 6 290 2215
From: chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: awful fantasy alert
Date: 30 Jul 92 00:55:04 GMT
Organization: I is a writur

ap1i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Andrew C. Plotkin) writes:

>Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.written: 29-Jul-92 awful fantasy alert
>Stan Malyshev@soda.berke (1185)

>> I'd just put down the grim creation of Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman
>> called _Dragon Wing_ of the Death Gate Cycle series, after reading about 20
>> pages.

>> Their style of writing is that of an average high-schooler;  I was surprised
>> to see this in published form.

That, of course, is their intended audience, the people in search of the fun
read, or the mindless entertainment. They don't sell quite as many
gadzillion copies as Piers Anthony, but they haven't been at it as long. 

If you walk up to them and tell them they're not writing deep, complex
fiction, they'll look at you funny. They know exactly what they're writing,
they're quite good at it and they'll keep doing it (and cashing their
royalty checks) for what seems like a long, long time, because for every
ready who wants a Chip Delany or even an Iain Banks, there are a couple of
dozen who loves this kind of stuff.

You're complaining because they did exactly what they set out to do. Do you
also complain to the manager at McDonalds because they don't sell Eggs
Benedict for breakfast?

You need to find a different restaurant, obviously.

-- 
Chuq "IMHO" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX) =+= Member, SFWA
  chuq@apple.com | GEnie: MAC.BIGOT | ALink:CHUQ =+= Editor, OtherRealms
	A real SF writur with stories in ALTERNATE KENNEDYS and THE 
	  FURTHER ADVENTURES OF BATMAN, in better bookstores now!

          Painted emblems of a race, all accurst in days of yore,
       Each from his accustomed place steps into the world once more.
From: jsinger@banach.WPI.EDU (Joel Singer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: BOOKS BY DAVID EDDINGS
Date: 26 Jul 92 18:47:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: wpi.1992Jul26.184740.16947
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute

Well, I enjoyed the first five books very much, waiting avidly for each new
release to come out in the bookstores.  I still read them occasionally, because
they are enjoyable, medium-light reading and a good yarn.  However, the next
five books, IMHO, repeat almost _exactly_ the plot and characters and 
situations of the first five.  He even gives it a pseudo-logical explanation
for that.  But I think that was just to cover up sloppy, hurried writing in 
order to squeeze more money from us, the readers.  I hate it when that happens.

*  Teddy Bear  *			[jsinger@jarthur.claremont.edu]
*  Harvey Mudd College  *
    "This is like juggling seven Faberge eggs in variable gravity."
   (You've never heard of Harvey Mudd?  Think CalTech, but better...)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
Subject: Re: Clark Ashton Smith (was Re: Lovecraft Thread)
Organization: Motorola, CCR&D, CORP, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 23:33:27 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.191906.12531@spool.cs.wisc.edu> rawdon@cabrales.cs.wisc.edu writes:
)In <9207211339.AA12850@rutgers.edu> WTS@harvarda.BITNET ("WADE T. SMITH") writes:
)>This should be the time to mention my personal favorite among the
)>great purveyors of scares and lurid prose-
)>Clark Ashton Smith (no relation) who IMHO constantly out Lovecraft's
)>Lovecraft, out Poe's Poe, out Hawthorne's Hawthorne, and is largely
)>ignored by today's generation!
)>I'm not even sure he's still in print.
)>I'm holding on to my dog-eared volumes.
)
)I found copies of the _Zothique_ and _Xiccarphe_ (sp?) collections a few years
)ago - used.  I agree that Smith in general is a better writer than Lovecraft.
)Though at his best ("In The Walls Of Eryx", "The Lurking Fear", "The Shadow
)Out Of Time", and several others) Lovecraft is at least as good.  Smith was
)more consistent, though.

I also like Smith a lot - Xiccarph (sp?) especially, which is the only one
I've read.  Though it depends a lot on my mood.  It's definitely not cheeful
stuff.  There aren't many stories where the Evil (not to mention sociopathic
and totally asocial) Sorceror overcomes the Valiant Hero without even
breaking a sweat -  and (it is implied) continues to commit attrocities in
the hope he'll eventually find *someone* to rid him of the existence he has
come to despise.
From: sysprog@morekypr.BITNET
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Andrew J. Offutt
Date: 23 Jul 92 19:24:28 GMT


>Many moons ago, while still an undergraduate at Morehead St.  University
>(Ky.) I fell in love with some of the works of Andrew J. Offutt - _Ardor
>On Aros_, the _Thieves' World_ stuff and everything else I could get my
>hands on that he (or he and his wofe Jodi) had written.  Is there anything
>that he has done lately???  Since _ShadowSpawn_?????

   He's written one novel since _ShadowSpawn_.  I'm not sure of the title,
but I believe it's _Death_Knight_.  It was published by Ace about a year
ago.  I'll check into the specifics tonight and post them if someone else
doesn't beat me to it.  I haven't heard anything about Offutt for a while,
but I'll ask around and see if I can find out what he's doing these days.

>Thanks.
>
>Keith Murphy
>Department of Communication
>Indiana Purdue U. Fort Wayne

========================================================================
Larry Estep    sysprog@morekypr.bitnet, sysprog@morekypr.morehead-st.edu
Systems Programmer, Postmaster, etc.
Morehead State University
Organization: Graduate School of Industrial Administr., Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 17:17:52 -0400 
From: Bill Thomas <bt16+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Errors in Covers (was Re: Hyperion covers)

Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.written: 24-Jul-92 Re: Errors in
Covers (was R.. by Laura Johnson@col.hp.com 
> Fine, so a boycott won't work because (a) it may not target the people
> at fault and (b) even if it does, a lot of innocent bystanders (such as
> the authors) will get caught in the crossfire. So how can we (effectively!)
> complain about this appalling situation?

The boycott probably WOULD work, but it would also punish the wrong
people. I think the letter-writing campaign might be effective. I
suggest that we develop a list of books, publishers and addresses, along
with a model letter, and start printing copies. Companies do
occasionally react to this kind of consumer sentiment, and it might at
least help change the policy concerning science fiction books.
From: cah@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Allen Halsell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: "Always Coming Home" Geography
Date: 28 Jul 92 15:08:41 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)


If anyone has worked out the geographical locations in "Always Coming
Home" by U.K. LeGuin I'd appreciate some insight.  I appreciate the
non-linearity of the book so far, but the left-hand side of my brain
would like some more details to chew on ...

-- 
 the only thing that speaks the truth is the eloquence of passing time
                 the spoken word is a jacket too tight
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: 10726446@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (LAU WAI KUEN)
Subject: Re: BOOKS BY DAVID EDDINGS
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, Monash University 
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 05:00:21 GMT

In article <920720153956.4340081f@bigvax.alfred.edu> BANKERR@BIGVAX.ALFRED.EDU writes:
>From: BANKERR@BIGVAX.ALFRED.EDU
>Subject: BOOKS BY DAVID EDDINGS
>Date: 20 Jul 92 19:39:56 GMT



    Very good.  I find that sums up all the books Mr Eddings has written 
extremely well.  Do you want to comment on the crap he vomits up too?

Halcyon
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written