HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Subject: Re: What _is_ the procedure for conversion to Judaism?
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:11:43 GMT

In article <2834@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
>In <92317.073707CARIAN@auvm.american.edu> CARIAN@auvm.american.edu writes:

>    First consult a (Conservative/Orthodox/Reconstructionist/Reform) rabbi
>    because only (Conservative/Orthodox/Reconstructionist/Reform) Judaism
>    is Authentic Judaism (tm) and only Authentic (tm) conversions are
>    valid.

>Given the trouble that Rabbi Lamm had with the word "valid" some years
>ago, I think that this word needs (tm) also.

To be absolutely sure on this point, I checked with my rabbi.  Reform
Judaism of course assumes that it is correct, but it does not claim
that any of the others are not authentic, and it does not consider 
any of the conversions mentioned as invalid.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: Tzitzit on ordinary garments
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 13:41:29 GMT

In article <9211202025.AA11645@cyclone.sbi.com> <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)> writes:
>warren@nysernet.ORG (Warren Burstein) writes:
>
>> The tallisists go around putting tzitzit on everything possible.
>           ^
>
>Caught ya!!  You closet Ashkenazi!

Should it have been "tallitittt go around putting tzitzit on everything
pottible?




-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: billt@core.rose.hp.com (Bill Thomas)
Subject: Re: A message from Kach to the Arabs?
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 00:19:16 GMT
Organization: HP - Systems Technology Division
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

: Do the supporters of Kach on scj not see that cowardly terrorist
: attacks such as the above are the inevitable results of Kach's
: platform?

Who actually threw the grenade? So far we have only the claims of
someone on the telephone. This person could be someone trying to stir
up trouble between Jews and Muslims. We should restrain our responses
until we have more information.

Sincerely,
Bill Thomas
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.african-american,misc.legal
From: srm@world.std.com (Stevens R Miller)
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:38:30 GMT

jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:

>In article <BD.92Nov11102204@fluent.UUCP> bd%fluent@dartmouth.EDU writes:
>>jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:

>>It is incumbent
>>on the accuser to prove, beyond a resonalbe doubt, that the accused
>>actually committed the crime.

>And when this is in fact proven beyond a reasonable doubt, as it was
>in the Kahane case, and the jury decides nevertheless to acquit the
>accused, where has the maximum possibility of a just solution gone to? 

Al Date would probably say it was enhanced, but I'll let him argue that
point.  I still argue the point that juries are as good as you are at
deciding reasonable doubt, Jake.  The Nosair/Kahane verdict (we talked
about this quite a bit at NYLS, since Kahane got his J.D. there) was
probably a compromise verdict.  I admit that such things are unsatisfying,
but not that they are proof of a failure in the system.

>...when a jury finds something which is entirely out of
>whack with common sense observations and even with detailed analysis,
>free of the theatrics and manipulations of the courtroom, then the
>"justice" system is missing out on justice by miles.  When this kind
>of verdict becomes commonplace, the system is due for a major overhaul. 

What non-theatrical, non-manipulative sources of fact are you using to
decide the jury was wrong?  The Times?  TV?  Perhaps Usenet?  Come on,
Jake, just what makes you so smart and the jury so dumb?
-- 
Stevens R. Miller J.D.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout)
Subject: Re: talk.shanda.goyim (was Re: Welcome to s.c.j.)
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:45:04 GMT

In <1992Nov17.190718.11170@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay) writes:

>In Jewish tradition, one of the worst sins is
>"chillul haShem" -- "desecrating the Divine Name". If a Jew
>behaves badly in public, it reflects badly on the Torah, and
>therefore on the God who gave the Torah. For this reason, the
>Talmud goes to great lengths to instruct Jews to avoid even the
>appearance of impropriety. In fact, there are many actions which
>are permitted by the letter of Biblical law, but which the rabbis
>forbade because of "morit ayin", the appearance of impropriety;
>that is, anyone seeing a Jew do that thing would tend to believe
>that he was acting imorally, even if he weren't, in fact, doing
>so.

>Conversely, whenever a Jew behaves particularly well in public,
>this is a "kiddush haShem", a sanctification of the Divine Name.

Yes this is well-established Jewish tradition.  The problem with
it is the definition of "bad" and "good" by outsiders whom one
is trying to leave with a good impression.  Outsiders may have
a completely different set of standards than the Jew who is trying
to impress them, and may consider his good actions as very bad.

This reminds me of a kibbutz I once worked on, where a group of
South African Jewish youth were volunteering for experience.  Back
home they were very rich and had many servants, so they commonly
fell asleep in the orange trees when they were supposed to be
picking the fruit.  One of the boys tried to impress his Israeli
Madriach.  He said:
"You know, I am not like the other boys!  Back home, I shine my
own shoes and make my own bed!"
(For those who know Israeli Kibbutzniks, you will understand).

When we "shine our shoes" and "make our beds" in front of others
to show our good morality, it may not be very impressive to
those that do not accept such acts.  Ultimately, our actions
have to be our own, or we will always cower at the thought of
this or that person misunderstanding our moves. (This of course
does not mean that we should not show respect towards others).

>Andrew Michael Solovay    
--
Eli Chiprout                 
Dept. of Electronics, 
Carleton University, Canada
emc@doe.carleton.ca                                     
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: Summit NJ
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:41:42 GMT

David Charlap writes:
>Stan Krieger writes:

>>The only nonsense is your head in the sand attitude.  It's time you
>>recognize the real world.

>Then you should abandon all religion completely.  After all, it's
>nothing but faith in what can't be observed anyway.

It looks to me that David's comment proves the lesson that we should
be getting out of Tisha B'Av.  Here is a person, who considers himself
an observant Jew, advising another Jew to join the atheists because
the second Jew doesn't feel that David Cherlap's sect is the only
sect that knows what God expects of us.

I'll repeat it again.  Get your head out of the sand and join the
real world.
-- 
Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:08:17 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.164732.12621@cis.ohio-state.edu> khaikin@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin) writes:
>about and make big deal out of it. If you want to continue "swimming
>wherever the stream takes you", then do it, just don't call it Judaism.
>Call it something else, like Non-Observance.

Sighhhhhh...
...
>  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.

'nuff said!
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: 1st Re: jesus of Nazareth
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:37:46 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <9211131335.AA10263@host0.COLBY.EDU> <jjsulliv@COLBY.EDU
 (Nice Young Lady(tm))> writes:


>
>ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich):  GE
>
>GE:
>( my argument was:
>>  A Mesaiah should change humanity , and at least his followers
>> from bad to good.
>> Hence if followers of a person are bad the person is not a mesaiah.)
>>
>>....
>>
( Nice Young Landy):
> If A then B, not A therefore not B   ONLY work if you can prove that
> If A then B is true.

Sorry Mr. Nice,  it seemed  that logic is not for you.

  If A then B, not A therefore not B
  does  NOT works EVEN if  you can prove that   If A then B is true

The implication I am using is:

  If A then B, not B therefore not A.

when you writes on this Jewish net "Jews are bad" ( and don't fool us
as if you did it innocently to demonstrate your point ) you prove
jesus did not made you a good person , this implies jesus is not a
messaia.

Shalom   gideon ehrlich
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Re: Mathematical Proof of G-d?
Organization: Smiley Abolition Front
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 01:57:18 GMT

In article <102793@bu.edu> simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov) writes:
>Putting on Herman's professional hat:
>
>The only solution for x! = x ( or \Gamma(x) = x, if you wish)
>is x = 1...

Or x = 2, nicht wahr?
-- 
Andrew Michael Solovay    

"When angry, count four. When very angry, swear."
                --Mark Twain
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: khaikin@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 18:28:05 GMT

In article <9211212232.AA24398@host0.COLBY.EDU> <jjsulliv@COLBY.EDU (Nice Young Lady(tm))> writes:
>khaikin@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin) writesL
>
>Then I asked her why doesn't she want to
>become Reform? -:Oh, she said, I am not crasy, you look at them and they
>look like (the next is exacly what she said:) a ch-rch. Yes, maybe they
>do to her, but what this girl does not realize is that her children
>might not consider it as a "c--h". 
>
>
>	Just an excerpt, because I'm curious....is 'church' a dirty word?
>
>
>JJ

No, it is not. I do prefer to write it this way, so you don't have to.

Thanks,
Dima
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.
  "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah."____ The Zohar.
   khaikin@cis.ohio-state.edu (Dmitry Khaikin, Columbus Ohio, USA)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ben@vmsa.technion.ac.il
Subject: Re: Oral sex
Organization: Computer Center, Technion IIT 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 07:01:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.142634.28904@leland.Stanford.EDU>
nasser@leland.Stanford.EDU (Hima Vatti) writes:


I'll leave out the disgusting part. Does anyone else thik that this may be one
of the best recent reasons  for going to a moderated group??
From: tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Religious freedom in Spain
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 23:29:37 +0100
Organization: "The Private Site of Manfredo Tichauer"

nmuller@ems.cdc.com (Nelson Muller) writes:


> Saturday, November 14, 1992
> 
> Spain has declared Jews, Muslims and Protestants the legal equals of
> Roman Catholics, 500 years after Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand ordered
> Jews expelled.  The constitution granted religious freedom, but only
> Catholics had an agreement on financial and legal rights.  Non-Catholics
> now will be able to study their own theology in public schools, their
> religious weddings will be recognized, and their places of worship will
> have tax-exempt status.   (Page 4-A)

  INSHALLAH!! 

> Does anyone know what religious freedom exists on other countries where
> Inquisition took place?
  
  As much  as I know, in all hispanoamerican  countries there is full
  religious freedom. In Chile I remember there was only one exception:
  to be a  President you had to be a Catholic (I don't know if this is
  still valid). The only exception was Salvador Allende who was a free
  mason, but  even so he had to attend the Tedeum Mass, obligatory for
  all elected presidents (for that Tedeum he did something quite cou-
  rageous: he told the chilean cardinal that he would attend the Tedeum
  only if also ALL religious representatives of every religious group
  in Chile would be invited, and the cardinal accepted this).

  But there is something much more interesting than this. A Jewish friend
  from Bolivia told me that in Bolivia there was a  JEWISH PRESIDENT
  who governed from 1947-1949, and whose name was Enrique Hertzog.If this
  would be true, than I think he would have been the only Jewish president
  of a country (and a Catholic one!) that is not Israel. Has anybody heard
  about this or any other similar case? I would rather think that Hertzog
  converted to Catholicism, because a relative of mine living in Bolivia
  converted since she wanted to work as a doctor med. and as a Jewess she
  had no possibillities to do it (at least that is her official version,
  although I doubt it).                            ^^^     

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Manfredo Tichauer M.                       EMAIL : tichauer@valpso.hanse.de
  Opitzstrasse 14                            VOICE :     (++ 49 40)  27.42.27
  2000 Hamburg 60 - GERMANY                  FAX   :     (++ 49 40) 270.53.09
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,il.board,talk.politics.mideast
From: michaelp@ifi.uio.no (Michael Schalom Preminger)
Subject: Re: Vatican Recognition of Israel - Who Needs It?
Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 00:04:40 GMT
Originator: michaelp@svea.ifi.uio.no


In article <20NOV199213390078@vms.huji.ac.il>, rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il (ROBERT WERMAN) writes:
> This is an honest appeal for help.  Could someone explain to
> me the reasons for the heat of Israel pursuit of Vatican 
> recognition?  
> 
> This pursuit is beyond me.  I would think that the Vatican 
> might be interested, in its new ecumenical image, in fostering
> a position of tolerance to the Jewish State.  But that is hardly
> the case.  Indeed, it is the Vatican that is reluctant and 
> Israel the ardent suitor.  Why?  What does Israel want from such
> an alliance which will only involve more pressure to 
> internationalize Jerusalem, and to favor Vatican claims over those
> of rival churches?   Taking sides in such a dispute can only bring
> troubles.
> 

As a principal, and as far as I know, Israel has always tried to gain
recognition by, and relations with as many states or, say political entities
as possible. I think this was a right thing to do. Doing so, israel 
inevitably exposes itself to pressure - but also gains advantages.
like, for example mediators in more and more fora where israel might have
interests, and contacts to markeds.

> Of course I am also the guy who could little understand Israel
> participation in the Spanish "renunciation" of the 1492 order
> expelling Jews from that country.
> 
I am personally of the opinion that the spanish renunciation was the 
most tasteless thing that was arranged in many years. The jewish 
expelling is one thing that is not mentioned, and the genocide of 
american indians as well. In this renunciation the spanish relate to 
history as if it was a cartoon. If I had to decide weather israel
should or should not participate, considering the first principal 
I mentioned vs. the second one - I would have really had a hard
time. Thanks heaven it wasnt me who had to decide about that...:-)
> 
> __Bob Werman    rwerman@hujivms.bitnet    rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il
> Jerusalem

Michael
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:20876 bit.listserv.catholic:2787
From: jspence@cmptrc.lonestar.org (John Spence)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: "Feminazis" and the "abortion holocaust"
Date: 23 Nov 92 19:28:24 GMT
Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX

In article <1eetlrINNmgt@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU> starr-daniel@yale.edu (Daniel Starr) writes:
>The Holocaust -- the systematic murder of 6 million Jews by Hitler's forces --
>was a conscious attempt at GENOCIDE.  It was Hitler's express intention
>(see documents of the period) that EVERY JEW BE SLAIN.  If he had succeeded,
>not one of us would remain on this earth.  It was an evil unparalleled in
>history.  It wasn't done against us as a _religion_, as the Inquisition
>was; it was against us as a _people_.  There was no escape by a facade of
>conversion.  There was no offer of exile.  If I or any of my ancestors
>were Jewish -- were even suspected of being Jewish -- we were to be ferreted
>out, rounded up, taken off to Auschwitz, to Dachau, to a thousand less
>notorious but no less infamous camps to be prepared for "The Final Solution":
>extermination.  Death for an entire people, because of the beliefs
>of our ancestors.
>
For an excellent reading on the meaning of Genocide see _The Concept
of Genocide_, Berel Lang, "The Philosophical Forum", Vol XVI, Nos. 1-2,
Fall-Winter 1984-85. After reading this you will never be confused on
the meaning of Genocide. To compare the destruction of the Jews in
Europe with anything else is unfathomable.

>We Jews are physically indistinguishable from you.  Even Hitler 
>did not claim that we were not human -- merely that we were a
>corrupted race, fitted only for murder.   
>
You are wrong here. Hitler felt that the Jews were sub-human. They were
insects, diseses, vermin, etc, but not human.


-- 
jspence@cmptrc.lonestar.org                                (214) 235-7161 x4100
John E. Spence                                                  CompuTrac, Inc.
"I don't speak for CompuTrac, and CompuTrac doesn't speak for me!"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: norm@helix.nih.gov (Norman Friedman)
Subject: Re: Autopsy - Kahane and Rosenbaum
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <norm@helix.nih.gov (Norman Friedman)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 02:23:39 GMT


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout)
Subject: Re: Mathematical Proof of G-d?
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:35:17 GMT

In <98167@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:

>In article <1992Nov17.201618.293@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, friedenb@case-l5 (Gedaliah Friedenberg) writes:
>>It can be proven that :    i(Pi)                          
>>			  e	= -1      (Where Pi is 3.1415927....)

>Pi is 3.1415926....  Rounding off the "...", you get 3.1415927.

Pi is 3.1415926... not 3.1415926....
Only then can you round the "..." instead of  the "...."

>-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
--
Eli Chiprout                 
Dept. of Electronics, 
Carleton University, Canada
emc@doe.carleton.ca
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:58:15 EST
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Netanyahu poised to lead Likud
 <1992Nov17.225459.19682@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>

In article <1992Nov17.225459.19682@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>,
jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg) says:
>
>In article <92322.1650452893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> andy
><2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>>An article in today's Toronto Star means a victory in a vote by Likud leaders
>>yesterday means Benjamin Netanyahu is almost certain to become the new leader
>>of Likud at the election March 25th. As well, a gallup poll shows that 73% of
>>Israelis believe Netanyahu will win the party primary.
>   Hah. I'll bet you Israelis didn't realise the _real_ power in Likud.
>   Wait'll you find out what the Globe and Mail can do!!

Oops, substitute "reports" for the first "means"  :)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: esafern@shearson.com (Eric Safern)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Reply-To: esafern@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:23:13 GMT

In article 5L2@mentor.cc.purdue.edu, hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
...
(Material deleted)
...

>
>I will not even go along with this statement.  There are a few situations in
>which the Orthodox will permit what I, a Reform Jew, will not permit.  In
>particular, I read the Shabbath commandment in such a way that the "Shabbos
>Goy" practice of the stetl is in direct contradiction to it.  Now SOMETHING
>had to be done in that climate, but not that!  There are other interpretations
>on this commandment which I will observe, but the Orthodox claim does not 
>violate it.
>-- 
>Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
>Phone: (317)494-6054
>hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
>{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)

Herman,

	You have said this before.  If I understand you, you do not believe in
asking a Goy to do something for you which you are forbidden to do yourself.

	So, asking a goy to wax the floors in the synagogue (on Sabbath) would 
not be permitted.  Fair enough.

	I assume that you define Sabbath class forbidden work as performing your
regular every-day job, say, putting on a coat and tie and taking a twelve hour
shift as a nuclear plant technician.

	Well, for God's sake, how can a modern country (or any country) run
with NO ONE working on Saturday?

	Even if you permit the nuclear plant example (for a goy) because of
threat to life, I can easily think of an example where the only loss is
monetary - say, a guard posted for a warehouse owned by a Jew.

	How about an alarm system on your house?  If it goes off, the police
respond.  Orthodox rely on the assumption that in a majority Non-Jewish
country, the policemen responding will probably be Non-Jews.  What will you
do when they arrive at your house?  Tell them not to arrest the burglar???

	Remember, if a risk to people's lives is not involved, Orthodox DO NOT
allow violation of the Sabbath by Jews.  Damage to or loss of property doen't 
count.

	Are you more lenient?

	The halacha allowing Melacha ('work,' sort of) by Non-Jews is sometimes
abused when used for individual conveniences, but is 100% necessary for the
functioning of society.

---
							Eric Safern
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Internet: esafern@sisyphus.govt.shearson.com   ...!uunet!sisyphus!esafern
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish