From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Summary: Again- time to return to reality folks
Date: 9 Nov 92 00:46:13 GMT
Organization: Summit NJ

From Andrew M. Solovay:

>>You _deliberately_ went out of your way to add something to your post
>>in order to make it pointedly insulting to a large number of your
>>fellow Jews on the net. There was _no_ reason to go out of your way
>>and point out your (unjustified) belief that Conservative conversion
>>are invalid _unless_ you wanted to make an effort to insult and/or
>>denigrate the Conservative readers on the net.
>
>As I recall, the question was, under what circumstances might
>Orthodox Jews view a conversion as invalid. One such circumstance
>would be an invalid bet din. There's pretty much only one
>siutuation in which a bet din is convened which an Orthodox Jew
>would consider invalid, and that's when the members of the bet
>din belong to a non-Orthodox movement. Given that, it was
>entirely appropriate to give a Conservative bet din as an example.
>
>Why does it bother you so much? By now it's well established that
>Orthodox Jews don't accept Conservative conversions. If you're so
>outraged by that viewpoint, perhaps you shouldn't follow a forum
>on which OJs post...

Oh boy, here we go again.  Well folks, here's another reality
reminder.  Maybe this time it will sink in-

    1.	Orthodox Jews do not "own" our religion; theirs is but
	one legitimate INTERPRETATION of what God expects from
	all of us Jews!

    2.	In justifying the legitimacy of the Conservative and
	Reform movements, we do NOT have to show consistency
	with the Orthodox INTERPRETATION of our Law; after all,
	who died and made them boss?

    3.	While there may be some issues regarding the Reform
	definition of who is a Jew, and these are issues that
	ALL Jews need to work out, to the satisfaction of
	ALL Jews, there is be NO REASON whatsoever for Jews
	of all sects to refuse to accept a convert from a Bet
	Din of Conservative Rabbis.

As I've said before, and for the benefit of newcomers who have
nothing better to do than to bash their fellow Jews at a time
when worldwide anti-Semitism is increasing, there will come
a time when I will have to recite Kaddish, and there is a
very strong possibility that at the shivah home there will
be adults who are Jewish as a result of Conservative conversions;
and any sonofabitch who even peeps about the possibility that
the minyan isn't "kosher" because they're not "really" Jewish
knows where they can go.

Finally, a little more reality folks.  Pro-communist
demonstrators on November 7 (the anniversary of the communist
takeover of Russia in 1917) made references to the Jewish
influence in the Yeltsin government (and isn't it funny that
it used to be the anti-communists who used to accuse the Jews
of being part of the communist takeover).  Also in Germany,
at the very time that the typical German feels that they aren't
the ones responsible for the Holocaust (they blame their parents
and grandparents, if anybody), it's clear from other actions
within the country that such behavior is in fact ingrained in
their mentality.

And then, just in case there isn't enough anti-Semitism, we have
Jews mocking out other Jews, discrediting their interpretations,
rejecting their converts, rejecting their converts' children;
in short, doing almost as good a job on 90% of the Jewish population
as are the Russians, Germans, Arabs, and any other group for
whom the Jews are a convenient scapegoat.  It was only a few
short months ago that I reminded us all, in a message clearly
aimed at the Orthodox, that civil war among ourselves led to
the destruction of the Temple; WHEN WILL THAT LESSON BE LEARNED
FOLKS??!!
-- 
Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com