HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: popovich@cs.columbia.edu (Steve Popovich)
Subject: Re: When is one experienced enough to teach?
Organization: Columbia University
	<1992Jul25.050810.1631@ecst.csuchico.edu>
	<1992Jul26.105308.22506@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 19:31:29 GMT

> I believe that if you have enough experience and the correct attitude, teaching
> can beging earlier.  I taught a few classes and I'm just a green belt.  

Maybe it's just me, or maybe it's being in NYC where N-dans are in
relative abundance, but I tend to think that shodans aren't ready to
teach, at least not on any regular basis.  I'm a shodan and I can
stumble along with things like teaching the Heian katas to white belts
while the rest of the class does a more advanced kata, but as for
putting an entire class together into any sort of coherent workout,
that skill escapes me completely.  I've had to fill in a couple of
times at Columbia when our instructor was absent, and I'm afraid those
discouraging efforts taught me more than they taught anyone else :-).

For JKA instructors, it seems that sandan rank is a prerequisite to
entering the instructors' training class.  Then, I think, it's at
least two years (locally -- instructors' training in Japan, for
example, is shorter and much more intense) in that before they
officially become instructors.  That doesn't preclude one from
teaching earlier, however.  The regular instructor at Columbia is a
sandan who trains at the same dojo as I do, and who now also teaches
semi-regularly at the main dojo, although he has only recently entered
the instructors' class.  He started teaching, out of necessity, when
the previous Columbia instructor left.  At the time, he wasn't yet a
nidan (but close).  After sort of a rocky start, he got very good at
teaching, and has just within the last month had one of the students
who started with him as instructor reach shodan.  That first year or
so, though, the club at Columbia nearly closed down a few times.

So I think that, although everybody does have something to teach,
anything more than "filling in" or supervised teaching within a larger
class is inadvisable until at least nidan level and probably sandan.
	-Steve
From: william@pilikia.pegasus.com (William Kwok)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Martial Arts, Ninjas and Superspies
Date: 21 Jul 92 01:57:31 GMT
Organization: Pilikia, Honolulu

In article <1992Jul19.14828.27099@ms.uky.edu> bud@ms.uky.edu (William K Glunt) writes:
>In article <BrMF49.CLJ@watserv1.waterloo.edu> rtang@sunee.waterloo.edu (The One Your Mother Warned You About!) writes:
>>In article <seah.711420021@sfu.ca> seah@fraser.sfu.ca (Simon Seah) writes:
>>>By the way, what IS DIM MAK?
>>
>>Well, DIM MAK, is LIKE "DIM SUM", its a chinese dish or rather a group of 
>>dishes, commonly served for brunch. In the case of DIM MAK its served
>>sometime between the midnight and 11:59pm. :) :)
>>
>
> Then there's the old joke about the fellow who thought dim sum
>meant 'I am stupid' in Latin....

I have a shirt that says "SUM DUM DIM SUM" with a picture of a basket
of dim sum.


-- 
William Kwok
Internet: william@pilikia.pegasus.com
UUCP: ...uunet!ucsd!nosc!pilikia!william
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA, Earth
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: seah@fraser.sfu.ca (Simon Seah)
Subject: Re: Dog Techniques
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 00:13:08 GMT

I don't think I'm cut out to do martial arts.  I would hesistate to hurt
even a big nasty dog attacking me.  Some compassion thing, I guess.
At most, I would probably stand about
and do non-dangerous defensive actions, or just DODGE LIKE CRAZY.

Does martial arts reduce one's conscience, or do dogs from hell that
try to eat innocent people walking to school  not deserve any
consideration.
^- not a flame, just curious.

Simon

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: mallon@hsi.com (Dan Mallon-Kraft)
Subject: Re: Pros and cons of judo.
Keywords: judo, self-defense
Organization: 3M Health Information Systems, Wallingford CT
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 16:49:31 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.164530.7875@ms.uky.edu> satadd00@nx27.mik.uky.edu (scott andrew taddiken) writes:
<There are so many posts to this group, it's hard to wade through
<them all.

Ya!  Big time.

<If you are actually wondering whether judo is right for you, and
<whether it is good for self-defense, I refer you to the ongoing
<flame-war about model mugging, mace, guns, etc.  There are some
<self-defense forms in judo, but they are, in a word, silly.  In
<one of the more amusing techniques, one guy tries to punch the
<other in the face, so the other (I swear I'm not making this up)
<ducks, steps behind him, and strangles him!  This defense is far
<too "busy".  You wouldn't believe it if you saw it, and neither
<do I.  In defense of Kano, who invented the technique, I can
<only say I am told that it was invented to be used against armor
<clad samurai.

I was working with a woman in my club on the self-defense kata (Kime
No Kata) because we wanted to present the kata and show that self-defense
and striking are part of the Kodokan curriculum.  Unfortunately, we actually 
found the strangle off the punch to be one of the more realistic 
techniques  ;-)  

I also watched a tape of someone doing the kata and it was too much to watch.
The attacker was like a sack of potatoes when he was thrown.

Dan
-- 
 Dan Mallon-Kraft		     mallon@hsi.com
 3M Health Information Systems	     {uunet,yale}!hsi!mallon
From: tardif@outaouais.ulaval.ca (Pierre-Martin Tardif)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: years for black belt
Keywords: black belt time
Date: 24 Jul 92 01:28:11 GMT
Organization: Universite Laval

seah@fraser.sfu.ca (Simon Seah) writes:
>Okay.  Another potentially silly and flammable question from the ignorant
>one who plays role-playing games that are so cinematic as to be miles from
>the truth.
>How many years does it take to become a belt belt in a martial art?
>Assuming the first possible level of black belt (as, I am told, high levels
>sometimes involve non-martial arts activities), and continuous, dedicated,
>training.
>If you deign to reply to this post, please state the style, permutation
>of style if any, the number of years, and extenuating circumstances (ex.
>you already had style X and that helped you in learning style Y, you are
>a natural genius with martial arts, etc...).

At my University, for the Nage-Jitsu (a projection ju-jitsu), we have
the following schedule:
	white->yellow:	1 session
	yellow->orange: 1 session
	orange->green:  1 session
        green->blue:    1.5 session
	blue->brown:    2 sessions
	brown->black:   2+ sessons
			----------
TOTAL:                  8.5+ sessions which is around 3 years (1 session
			              = 4 months) of intensive training or
				      4+ years of normal training.

That's all for me.....NO FFFFFFLLLLAAAAMMMMEEEE `'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
                                                ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
                                                ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
                                               +-----------------+
                                               |                 |
                                               ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

WHAT ??? You don't know what is a birthday cake with candles on it ???
NO FLAME

-- 
Pierre-Martin Tardif, etudiant gradue  (email: tardif@gel.ulaval.ca)
Laboratoire de Vision et Systemes Numeriques
Universite Laval, Pavillon Adrien-Pouliot, local 00100-I, Ste-Foy, Quebec,
Canada, G1K 7P4         (418-656-2131, ext 4848)
Organization: Comp & Comm - Telecommunications, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 17:02:57 -0400 
From: Stephen Chan <sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: C'hi Kung Training

acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU writes:
> why is c'hi kung training, if donr incorrectly, so dangerous? is it the
> physical aspect (for example, lifting a heavy weight with little or
> no training can give you a hernia/burst a blood vessel in the brain) 
> or is it the mental aspect.

	Well, here's my best guess at an explanation that doesn't
assume you believe in qi, or whatever:

	The body has all kinds of automatic mechanisms. For example,
proper digestion of food, maintaining balance, etc...
	I guess this stuff is controlled by the autonomic nervous
system. When people practice qi gong, it influences the autonomic
nervous system. You use breathing, movement and visualization to
influence those things which are normally run without supervision.
	It's quite common to hear about people being able to
regulate blood flow & rate of oxygen consumption.

	This stuff runs fine in background. But if you screw them up,
then life can be unpleasant. Suppose the glands that control your
emotional state started going haywire? You'd suffer from weird mood
swings (well, maybe weirder than usual mood swings).
	What if you screwed up your circadian rhythm, and couldn't
sleep at night? Your health would immediate begin to deteriorate.

> is c'hi kung training breathing only, or are physical movements/techniques
> associated with it?

	Both, as well as visualization exercises. The "harder" and
more strenuous the qi gong, the greater the possibility of damage.

	I had brought up this "dangerous qi gong" question about 2
years ago because my parents had warned me off this stuff. Apparently
in mainland China, there was a clamp-down on qi gong for "public safety"
reasons.
	Recently, I've read some material which seems to indicate that
the qi gong danger was overblown, and that the PRC government had
political motives for the clamp down.
	I guess the qi gong seminars were very, very popular and
had the character of American Bible Belt revivals - all that
charismatic Christian stuff: people going into ecstasies, being healed
miraculously, speaking in tongues, etc...
	The government got sort of alarmed at the influence these qi
gong masters were gaining, and decided to ban the practice of qi gong.

	I talked with a local guy who teaches qi gong, shiatsu and all
that stuff. He tells me that the only qi gong systems which are
dangerous are the ones with rapid, forced breathing.
	I would guess that the ones with lots of bodily manipulation
are kind of dangerous too.
	Anyone else have news, ideas on this stuff?

Stephen Y. Chan		Programmer Analyst	CMU Telecommunications
stevec+@cmu.edu		(412)268-5115 [me] 	(412)268-4987 [FAX]
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Knives, pressure points, and Kadena de mano
From: sboland@mtroyal.ab.ca (Steve Boland)
Date: 24 Jul 92 10:34:02 MDT
Organization: Mount Royal College, Calgary, Alberta

In article <1992Jul21.155958.7860@pony.Ingres.COM>, simutis@Ingres.COM (John Simutis) writes:
> I attended a seminar/workout last Sunday in the Filipino art of
> Kadena de Mano. If ever you want to learn about knife fighting,
>..... 
> Suro* Mike Inay also taught us several unarmed techniques which were
>..... 
> * "suro" - "sensei" equivalent, "master" or "teacher"
     ^^^^
I think this should be Guro.
From: GMS@psuvm.psu.edu (Gerry Santoro - CAC/PSU)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Aikido and Randori
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:58:55 GMT
Organization: Penn State University


>In article <0eNMn5y00iU49U6Sls@andrew.cmu.edu> sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stephen
>Chan) writes:
>>
>>       I agree that Aikidoka often seem to lack proper offensive
>>skills. I guess that Aikido is generally taught as a defensive art,
>>but I think there is a danger of Aikidoka not being able to respond
>>effectively against, errr, "non-canonical" attacks. I guess (hope?) that
>>yudansha play around with different attacks during randori.
>>

The real key is not the techniques themselves but their application.  In
fact, the techniques are simply a method for training the body in
the feeling and application of Ki in defensive situations.  I think it very
unlikely that the application of techniques in actual defense would be
anything like that done during Randori.  (At least in my case I *know*
they would be different -- but then I have an earlier foundation in
external arts.)

People often confuse Randori with sparring.  They are very different.
The purpose of Randori is to learn/test the application of Ki principles
under fire.  The purpose is *not* to demonstrate excellent defensive
technique.  (If it were I expect many injuries during 5-on-one Randori.)

As for offense/defense, clearly the *philosophy* and *intent* of Aikido
is non-violent and non-aggressive.  However, with a little thought one
can see how it can become offensive.  For example, I push you, you push
back, now I use technique on you.

Finally, I don't think anyone would claim that Aikido is the most
*effective* martial art ever developed.  I would recommend a low-yield
thermonuclear device for that purpose, or Kempo (:-).  (Greenoch?)

Aikidoka *purposely* follow a teaching that advocates non-violence and
therefore knowingly (i hope) take some chances in order to adhere to that
teaching as much as possible.  Trying to compare Aikido to other MA's
(except possibly Tai-Chi or Pa-Kua) is like comparing peaches and 4MB simms.

<bow>

gerry santoro
academic computing/speech communication
penn state university
aikido kokikai
From: sdbst5+@pitt.edu (Stephen D Brener)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Aikido and the jab...
Date: 24 Jul 92 00:31:29 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <69800@apple.Apple.COM> mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins) writes:
>In article <1992Jul8.202952.20739@mcs.anl.gov> sasso@flounder.phy.anl.gov (John F. Sasso) writes:
>>
>>An Aikidoist will never initiate an attack.  There cannot be a
>>situation of two Aikidoka fighting.  They would just stare at each
>>other, and nothing would happen!

Nonsense, I remember one time at the Hombu dojo two Aikidoists, one being a 
Deshi (lives at the Hombu dojo and has devoted his life to Aikido), got into
a fight.  They did more than just stare, they threw punches.  One had his 
jaw broken.
From: guest@jaws1.austin.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Some general questions...
Keywords: judo, akido, shotokan
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:57:00 GMT
Reply-To: guest@jaws1.austin.ibm.com ()
Organization: IBM Austin, TX

I have some general questions about the nature of certian martial arts, and an
having a difficult time finding credible information.  

I am trying to determine what type of martial art to begin to study.  I have
had an interest in this field for quite some time now, and am finally in
a position
to begin study.  I have been looking at judo and shotokan, and have a
few questions
regarding the two.  
	
	1) judo is a taxing sport demanding strength, ability, and stamina. But is it
           (as it is taught in the usa) a viable martial art usable for
self-defense
            in the street?

	2) akido is also very athletic, but again, how useful could it be in 
           a street situation? 

	3) are striking techniques taught in either judo or akido?

	4) does the practice of shotokan tend to injure joints? Is that why 
           practitioners of such hard styles seem to retire in their 30's and
           early fourties?

thank you for any help you can give me!!!  

P.S.  I'm ibm internal, so don't e-mail me (I won't get it).  Please, just post
      here, on the net.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re: Dirty Dozen VS. Seagal
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 13:08:53 GMT

In article <Brwr1G.z3@atherton.com> dlw@atherton.com (Remo Williams) writes:
>
>Why, if they are secure in themselves, would they care what Seagal
>says? 

Maybe because they care about how the martial arts are portrayed?  To
my mind, the only thing that separates boxing from the arts is the 
attitude involved.  Parents send their kids to dojos because they
think the kid will learn respect, etc., there.  If all the parents
hear about is Seagal and his attitude, how many kids are going to
show up?

>RUMOR has it that LeBell choked out Seagal [I would presume that
LeBell would
>not do this to Seagal if he were interested in continuing movie stunt  
>work

LeBell would have no problem getting a job in tinseltown; he's been at
this a lot longer than Seagal.  From what I've heard (from magazines),
LeBell likes to challenge all the martial arts stars, just to see what
they're made of (wasn't there a story about him and Bruce Lee?).  And
frankly, from what I've heard first hand from movie people, most of
them would love to see Seagal get knocked down a couple of pegs.  He
apparently takes credit for a lot more than he should in production of
his movies.  He now says he's getting more input with each movie;
maybe that's true, because each movie he does is worse than the one
before.  We've given up watching him at club movie nights; we've 
replaced him with Cynthia Rothrock (still bad stories, but she's
added a lot of gymnastic moves to her movies, and her co-stars are 
good as well).

Dakin
burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
From: jquarant@mipos3.intel.com (James R. Quaranta Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Books on Chi/Ki
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:33:51 GMT
Reply-To: jquarant@mipos3.UUCP (James R. Quaranta Jr.)
Organization: Microprocessor Component Group, Intel Corp., Santa Clara, CA

In article <14n981INNsuj@agate.berkeley.edu> robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes:

I've heard from several sources that the stuff Mantak Chia writes about is
unsafe, unproven, and even if it weren't it isn't the sort of thing you
should be trying out of a book anyway.

The very worst thing that can happen is you end up psychotic or crippled. 
At best, you waste your time and money.  I've never met anyone who claimed
specific benefits from following his writings.

____________________

Have you ever known someone who has ended up psychotic or crippled from
practicing Chi Kung?   Why is it dangerous?

jq
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 10:34:40 -0400 
From: Stephen Chan <sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Dirty Dozen VS. Seagal
	<ACEVEDO.92Jul29100238@hippocrene.mit.edu>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.martial-arts: 29-Jul-92 Re: Dirty Dozen VS.
Seagal Raul Acevedo@mit.edu (1042)

> In article <osborn.712284639@dragon> osborn@socs.uts.edu.au (Tom Osborn)
> writes:


>    As with all spook things, denial == confirmation. Therefore, Seagal, who
>    claimed he worked for the CIA, actually DID (as an operative so secret
>    that he wasn't aware of it). The CIA probably claims (consistently) that
>    they believe he is an actor...

> I'm not sure about that.  Suppose he did work for the CIA.  I'm sure the
> CIA would deny it.  Suppose he did not.  Then I would really expect them
> to deny it.  What else would they say if he didn't?


	I think the best policy is to just deny everything, and on issues where
you could get burned politically, give a "no comment". That's what I
would do if I were a CIA type guy.

	Stephen
From: twcaps@tennyson.lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Shaolin Monks Tour:  Postscript?
Date: 24 Jul 1992 00:43:54 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley, California
Reply-To: TWChan@lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.117

In article <1992Jul23.221050.18894@nntp.uoregon.edu> 
	toman@darkwing.uoregon.edu (Joseph Toman) writes:
  
  +I WANT THE MOVIE RIGHTS !! Just think think of it ! " Alone, in a
  +foreign land, with only the skill in their fists and the longing
  +for freedom in their hearts against a horde of mercenary karate killers!
  +No dojang is safe, no sifu a friend,  they were : 'Shaolin Rebel Buddies vs. 
  +The Chinese Connection' ! In Sensaround (tm) !!
                                ^^^^^^^^^^

Shouldn't this be "Sensei-round"?


Terry
--
Internet:  TWChan@lbl.gov                           I disclaim all disclaimers.
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Books on Chi/Ki
Date: 24 Jul 1992 23:14:02 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <23JUL199223304952@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> uubrian@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (BRIAN BENTZ) writes:
>	What does he teach that's so odd that you shouldn't try out
>of a book?  How is it unsafe?  You're being pretty vague.

I'm not trying to be coy.  It's just that we already had this discussion 
last year, and I don't want to bore people who've heard it before.

>(he is teaching chi kung, isn't he?  I remember reading about him in 
>a martial arts magazine not all _that_ long ago... if he's teaching
>potentially dangerous things and not just another meditation discipline,
>how did he get published?) 

He's teaching a potentially dangerous meditation discipline.

As for how he got published, anything can get published.

             -Michael

-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: slively@locus.com (Susan Lively)
Subject: Re: MA as therapy for abuse
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts 
Summary: It really works
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, San Diego, California
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:14:05 GMT

Studying Martial Arts also provides good therapy for adults who 
have been attacked/raped or otherwise forced (physically or 
through mind games) to do things they didn't really want to do.

For me, the study of martial arts has improved my self-confidence
and feeling of control over what I do with my body, and control
over my own mind.  All things that were taken away from me in 
my adolescence.  It has taken close to two years to get past the 
walls in my mind, but now I am prepared to devote my life to 
understanding the art which has given me, well, myself.

Trust me, as therapy for abuse, martial arts works.

Susan
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re:  Is Publication of Net Posts ok?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 22:29:40 GMT

Well, I got about 15 posts from various people.  Some didn't want
their names mentioned (no problem), some wanted to know about the
orientalism quotation (I'll look it up), and some just gave some
advice as to citations.  It looks like I'll wait until I know just
what posts I'll refer to, and then I'll email everybody about them.

Dakin
burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Diff. between Eastern and Western thought
Date: 30 Jul 92 18:20:26 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


>The difference between Western and Occidental thought is that 
> Occidentals recognize mastery and Westerners have to have 
> everything proven.

>	He asked to be showed.
>	So we showed him.

Ah, Peter-san, I recognize proven mastery in the above.  :-)

>-- 
>Peter Hahn           |hahn@network.com|"...In Peking, he told me, there lived a
>7600 Boone Ave. N    |+1 612 424-4888 |famous boxer who dropped down from three
>Brooklyn Park, MN USA|                |stories onto an interior courtyard
>55428                |                |without making a sound when he landed."



								todd