From: PKJAMES@UKCC.UKY.EDU
Subject: Re: Origins of Circumcision
Organization: University of Kentucky
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 06:47:23 GMT

In article <gdavis.723738309@griffin>
gdavis@griffin.uvm.edu (Gary Davis) writes:
 
>
>  According to some scholars male circumcision originated in Egypt
>more than 5000 years ago and is thought to be one of the most ancient
>of surgical procedures. The reasons for the procedure are a bit more
>obscure. At least some support is given to a cast or tribal marking
>hypothesis.
>The biblical commandmant which most Jews posit for the procedure
>apparently came much later. It is thought perhaps the Eyptians who
>subjugated Hebrews also imposed that requirement.
>
>The more recent in vogue for the procedure occurred in all English
>speaking countries including U.K. and U.S.A. around the turn of the
>century. At that time it was thought masturabation was the root
>cause of insanity and even spinal curvature!
>By reducing the sensitivity of the penis,it was thought masturbation
>could be cured.
>
>After the dawn of scientific medicine,about 1925,it became clear
>that masturbation did none of these things,but by then about 30% of
>males were being routinely circumcised and from here begin the
>flood of pseudo-studies positing that circumcision reduces
>cancer,sexually transmitted disease and the latest medical rational
>is urinary tract infection to six months of age.
>In the 1940s most countries who had embraced the practice began to
>give it up as a routine,only performing it for actual and individual
>medical need. Only U.S.A.,Canada and Australia did it persist.
>In the 1960s MDs in Australia began advising agaisnt the practice
>and the rate dropped from 85% to about 20% in less than a generation.
>In Canada today the rate is estimated at 27% with the Canadian
>Pediatric Society finding no medical value when applied as a routine
>prophylactic.
>
>Only in the U.S.A. does the rate stay persistantly high with some
>hospitals circumcising 95 to 100% of its newborns.
>
>The procedure in the USA is in part kept alive by physician bias and
>ignorance not to mention many insurance companies paying anywhere from
>75 to 200 dollars for infant elective circumcision.
>
>Lancet the British Medical Journal recently published a report that
>indicates mothers who breast feed or have their infant soms "room in"
>rather than be lodged in the communal nursery have significantly
>fewer cases of urinary infection.
>
>Unfortuanetly circumcision for boys is quite intrenched,aside from
>Moslems or Jews who have religious reason. The rate in the USA is twice
>to three times the rate anywhere else in developed countries.
>Hospitals actually proffer the procedure to each and every women who
>has birthed a son. (In my opinion this is quite unethical)
>Only scat circumcision counseling is done and where it is done the
>medical excuses are exaggerated.
>
>One mother who recently gave birth at the Rutland,Vt hospital
>where the rate is 98%,told me a nurse appraoched her no less than
>six times,asking for permission to circumcision a son who she did
>not want circumcised!
>
>The reaasons for circimcision in 95% of cases are NOT religious.
>They are from ignorance and conformity with the OBGYN collect a nice
>fee for the removal of an infant foreskin.
>
>
One of the most valuable collections of data I've yet seen on this
subject.  Conrats.  I've consulted with several people over the last 8
years and what you say bears out.  From all the historical reasons I can
find, none had anything to do with health as many claim as far as the
origins.  There is one refererence to "Sand and Circumcision" but it
leaps in it conclusions.  I myself was circumcised but not very much.
For all practical purposes I look uncircumcised and function that way.
One very interesting point to think about is "what is circumcision"  I
can't find a single reference on what part to remove.  The top near the
glans, or cut out shaft skin. My personal opinion on the subject is that
many of the men who were circumcised in america, were done so in an
adverse way and that they have a natural urge to defend thier state.  It
is a sore point of contention.  (no pun intended)  Some people have
tried to say this is not a medical issue and belongs in alt.sex or such.
However, I say that since the only people who can perform it are
doctors that it is indeed a medical issue they have not studied.  If you
search the literature for medicine back very far you will find that even
the terms penis and vulva are not mentioned in their indexes.  Our
sexual organs are concerned with more than elimination and procreation.
Most of it is done for recreation.  Seems even that the medical
community which calls itself "art" while bases on we technicians and
scientists, cannot end up with a conclusion as to whether it is ok or
not.  You'd think that after 5000 years there'd be some definitive
consensus on the subject.  Well, think again, there's not been a
consensus on war and politics for as many years as well.  There will
always be idiots and such.  I didn't have my son circumcised-believe it
or not he did not die.  Oh, by the way I was searching the med lit one
day and the thing you said about the baby being nursed in the room or
kept in the room with the mother having fewer urinary tract
infections-the babies who are circed of course have antibiotic cream put
on them.  BUT the big thing was that the care people wore gowns and went
from baby to baby.  In essence they were going in and wearing the same
gown and holding the babies next to them.  Using disposable gowns the
rates were much lower for urinary infections.   Medicine an
art-bullshit, it's a science.  Art is something I want to look at when I
want a subjective view of reality. Science is something I want to
explain what I see in objective terms.  Oh well, before I ranted I just
wanted to say you are well researched and I agree.  I didn't even think
about it until after my son was born and when I related the story of his
birth it seemed most people were just taken aback that I wouldn't cut
him. I just couldn't see any reason. -Hey, if he wants to be an Egyptian
priest he can do it later of his own choice.
PAUL JAMES   (PKJAMES@UKCC.UKY.EDU)
>--
>                       Gary E. Davis /WQ1F/
>              Dpt. Electrical Engineering and Com Sciences
>              University of Vermont @ Burlington