HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jimj@cleanplate.EBay.Sun.COM (James D. Jones)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: DCX and making Boeing do something as well...
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:29:39 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: cleanplate.ebay.sun.com

In article <11453@ksr.com> jfw@ksr.com (John F. Woods) writes:
>games@max.u.washington.edu writes:
 
=There are managers at Boeing who are aware of the potential market in space
=travel, I'm sure, and if there is a real opportunity for them to make money
=in launchers, I'd think there's a good chance they'd go for it (after all,
=they would have instant credibility).  They will, however, probably want
=to see binding offers of cash on the barrel (if not cash up front) from
=customers before they try it, just like they do with airplanes.

I seem to recall, several years ago, one of those gosh-wow Popular Science
cover stories about a one-man shuttle project that Boeing was trying 
to interest the government in.  In this plan, the craft was to be 
small, cheap, -- and air-launched from the back of a 747.  Obviously a 
_wonderful_ concept from Boeing's viewpoint.  I never heard another thing
about it, though. 


 
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)
Subject: Re: SDI update
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 16:10:40 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.212728.29761@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins) writes:
>jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
>
>>	How many BPs are we talking about? A fission-explosive driven
>>cannon might be able to loft several hundred tonnes of glowing rock
>>into orbit (Good idea to send the rubble out faster than escape velocity to
>>avoid having it orbit through the Earth). Getting hit by a 70 km/s piece
>>of rock might disable a BP; 
>         ^^^^^
>	Oh I dunno, doesn't sound that hard to take :)
>Of course, at this point you're faced with a solution that might be worse than
>the problem.  I roughly estimate that your exposive is in the multimegaton 
>range.

	In the fifties, it was seriously proposed that nuclear explosives
could be used within tens of klicks of US cities with acceptable health
costs to the nation as a whole. If the nuclear connon were placed in one the
many sparsely populated wastelands in the US, like Nevada, North Dakota or
New York, the fatalities from side effects might be small compared to other
acceptable sources of premature death in the US, like those from car accidents
or cigarette smoking.  I admit there might be a PR problem if a nuclear
cannon were built, but it seems a pity, given how many nuclear explosives
are available, not to use them, esp.  given the existance of problems which 
could be, if not actually *solved* by use of nuclear explosives, at least made
different.

>  For that matter, If you can blow cold 1m objects out of orbit
>on such short notice with this thing, what do you need the BPs for?  You
>could just aim it at the missiles.

	I'm imagining a cannon which could blow a small number of objects 
out of orbit when needed, not something which could zap 100,000 incoming RVs
and decoys. Dealing with one or two malfunctioning or sabotaged BPs is an
easier problem to deal with than 100K incoming objects.

>>	Some wiseass sabotaging the ocassional BP to zap 747s could be a pain...
>
>Yeah, let's give each BP a net adress so teenagers can screw around with the
>controls :)  Can't be much worse than leaving them in the hands of generals. :)
>I don't think a BP could hit a 747 though.  Don't they fly a tad too low?  
>Zooming that deep into the atmosphere would certainly cause problems for a BP.

	Yeah. Change that '747' to 'satellites or very high altitude aircraft
(Possibly a null set as far as BP are concerned)'. Since the BPs won't be 
autonomous, there is a possibility someone will try to tamper with their 
targetting. Making US defenses occasionally zotz neutral or allied nations'
resources might cause the US PR difficulties if the tampering were difficult 
to trace.

							James Nicoll
From: pgolden@nhgs.vak12ed.edu (Patrick S Golden)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: BUILD YOUR OWN HUBBLE SPACE TELESCOPE
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:52:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: nhgs.1992Apr15.165230.18192
Organization: Virginia's Public Education Network

> Right.  Like, this mirror must be 10**9 times worse than the main mirror
> on the HST.  the #150 sandpaper would leave so many grooves that it
> could NEVER function.
> 
> And, for your information - aluminium foil is an alloy, NOT pure
> aluminium. You'd never get it to vacum deposit evenly.
> --
> Edward C. Otto III   	    *  E-mail addresses:  e-otto@uiuc.edu
> Printing Services Office    *  Phone:  217/333-9422
> 54A E. Gregory Drive	    *  "The only thing we have to fear is
> Champaign, IL  61820	    *  24 line .signature files..."

Isn't it refreshing to know that in this jaded age there are
still those impervious to satire!

I, for one, can't wait to try the directions.  Will it degrade
the effects if I don't melt the aluminum foil but just stretch
it over the mirror?  I think I read that Hughes Optical is
trying such a plan in their fix. 

(I can't wait for the response to this one!)
-- 
|-------------------------------|
|Patrick Golden                 | 
|Virginia Space Grant Consortium| 
|Hampton, VA  (804-865-0726)    |
From: 3001crad@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Charles Frank Radley)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: RFD: Space Colonists' Association
Date: 12 Apr 92 16:25:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: ucsbcsl.4137
Distribution: na



Seems like there may already v be a group lk like that.
Jerry Pournelle and a few others got pretty upset
about the L-5 merger with NSI.
I believe they have started a group called the Lunar Society or
something likethat.  The only thing I know about it is that
you have to be SERIOUSLY interested to join in.    I can try
to dig up a contact if you like.  But everybody probably knows
how to reach Jerry via his publishers I guess.
Xref: sparky sci.space:7433 sci.physics:6683
From: jim@netlink.cts.com (Jim Bowery)
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.physics
Subject: Moon Market Survey
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:20:56 GMT
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

How much would you be willing to pay for a small amount of moon dust?
Say, a fraction of a gram.

Please respond privately via e-mail.

--                    
INTERNET:  jim@netlink.cts.com (Jim Bowery)
UUCP:   ...!nosc!ryptyde!netlink!jim
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 435-6181
From: steinly@topaz.ucsc.edu (Steinn Sigurdsson)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Gov. R&D
Date: 6 Apr 92 18:16:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: topaz.STEINLY.92Apr6191611
Organization: Lick Observatory/UCO
In-reply-to: 18084TM@MSU.EDU's message of 7 Apr 92 01:19:57 GMT

In article <Added.AdsDe7S00UkT9Vhk8p@andrew.cmu.edu> 18084TM@MSU.EDU (Tom) writes:


   >>   Perhaps you should look at the Keck telescope(s) as another good
   >>   example of why you are wrong.  It's totally private.

   > While it is true that most of the capital cost of Keck I & II
   > were paid for by the Keck foundation, a very nice ( :-) ) private
   > charity, the design and operation will mostly be paid for by
   > the State...

   >...in company with the first 10-meter telescope.  Projected cost is $93.3
   >million.  Keck Foundation has donated $74.6 million.  Asking NASA for
   >remaining $18.7 million.  First light in 1996.

   Ok, it's not TOTALLY private.  But the point remains that this project
   is proof that Gov. is not the only way to do Big Science.

You miss the point. The Keck telescopes had most of their construction
costs funded by private money, but in order to _run_ them with any sort of
effectiveness, a sustained funding source was necessary, as the
endowment necessary would be larger than the construction cost by
a considerable margin, the operation was essentially handed over to
the State, via UC. Also, once built, State agencies funded
instrumentation as being cost-effective way of doing some astronomy.
Government is not the only way to do science of any kind, but the
people who are projects of this scale seem to find that they often
are the _only_ way, if not the best, to get some things done.

   I will find a reference to this:  I seem to remeber that after asking for
   cash from NASA, they said; "sure, if we decide who gets to use it, what
   kind of computer system is used, etc, etc.," to which Keck et. al.
   said "Thanks, but no thanks."

They did not! The place is run from an office 100 feet from me, I have
more publications on the damn thing than I could read in a month
and I talk to some of the people involved on a regular basis.
NASA is not sure if it has the discretionary funding to commit to Keck
II, if they can it will be accepted immediately (IMHO!). CIT needs
another 15 mill or so to complete Keck II and there aren't that many
places with that kind of money. BTW the Keck project is the _biggest_
private donation to a scientific project ever.

Again, I do _not_ speak for CIT, UC or anyone else, and have no
involvement with the Keck telescope...


|  Steinn Sigurdsson	|I saw two shooting stars last night		|
|  Lick Observatory	|I wished on them but they were only satellites	|
|steinly@helios.ucsc.edu|Is it wrong to wish on space hardware?		|
| "standard disclaimer"	|I wish, I wish, I wish you'd care - B.B. 1983	|
From: CSG0669@vax2.queens-belfast.ac.uk
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: RE: SPACE Digest V14 #1080
Date: 7 Apr 92 20:15:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

Subject: Isaac Asimov

I read today that Isaac Asimov passed away. He was one of the true giants
of our time and we will miss him.

					Dale Amon
From: pgf@usl.edu (Phil G. Fraering)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: test
Date: 12 Apr 92 22:44:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: srl03.pgf.703118669
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern Louisiana

stanleyw@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (wong wing sang) writes:

>this is a test.

Pass/Fail? Did we get partial credit?

    
--
Phil Fraering pgf@nasa12.usl.edu 318/365-5418
"How about a dragon that breathes neutrons instead of fire?  Kills the
elves, leaves the buildings intact..." - Nick Szabo
From: roberts@CMR.NCSL.NIST.GOV (John Roberts)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Old accounts
Date: 16 Apr 92 12:29:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: cmr.9204161229.AA10182
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology
	formerly National Bureau of Standards


-From: demillo@juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Robert DeMillo )
-Subject: Re: Big BOOMS over east coast in 1970's - what were they?
-Date: 8 Apr 92 15:35:29 GMT
-Organization: M.I.T. Lincoln Lab - Group 43

-In article <1992Apr1.074832.11649@meteor.wisc.edu> stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu (Steve Jascourt) writes:
-> In article <1992Mar31.164041.2076@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca> martin@space.ualberta.ca (Martin Connors) writes:
-> >William Corliss, in his "Handbook of Unusual Natural Phenomena" (Doubleday 
->  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
-> >1983) 

-I'd read the book again, Steve. Corliss' sourcebook project is 
-merely an attempt to collect folklore, categorize it, and bring
-it up for discussion. 

-Also, a quick glance through the book shows that the vast majority
-of the "eye witness" accounts occured in the late 1800's early 1900's,
-which means they were probably second or third hand stories. 

Those old accounts can sometimes be very useful. For instance, I understand
that the first soliton wave was observed by a French engineer in a canal,
back in the 1800s or thereabouts. (Source: Scientific American.)

John Roberts
roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov
Organization: Fifth yr. senior, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: sci.space
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 17:32:39 -0400 
From: "Jeremy G. Mereness" <jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: EOS info?


Can anyone tell me what's going on with the Earth Observation System
(EOS)? From what I have read in Science News, NASA is looking into
smaller satellites rather than the large EOS-A and EOS-B that had been
previously proposed. Are there any prospective launch dates? 


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|Jeremy Mereness                 | Support     | Ye Olde Disclaimer:    |
|jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (internet) |    Free     |  The above represent my|
|a700jm7e@cmccvb (Vax... bitnet) |     Software|   opinions, alone.     |
|student at Carnegie Mellon Univ.|             |     Ya Gotta Love It.  |
|               Every Silver Lining's Got a Touch of Grey               |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
       This year marks the 200th anniversary of the Bill of Rights
From: Mark.Perew@p201.f208.n103.z1.fidonet.org (Mark Perew)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Deep Space Network Block IV & Block V
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 92 14:40:28 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:103/208.201 - Homer, Tustin CA

In a recent Galileo status report there was a reference to DSN Block IV and 
Block V.  Would someone kindly explain these?  Also, how many DSN sites are 
there?  A list of sites would be nice, too.

Thanks.

 *              Mark.Perew@ofa123.fidonet.org

 


--  

Mark Perew
Internet: Mark.Perew@p201.f208.n103.z1.fidonet.org
Compuserve: >internet:Mark.Perew@p201.f208.n103.z1.fidonet.org
From: rhl@d62wdf.mitre.org (Roger H. Lincoln)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: "The Machine That Changed The World" - inaccuracy?
Date: 15 Apr 92 13:17:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: d62wdf.RHL.92Apr15081746
Organization: The Mitre Corp., Bedford, MA.


Has anyone seen the PBS series "The Machine That Changed The World"?
Last night (episode 2 I think) told about the role that the Apollo
moon project had in miniaturizing the computer.  The told (and showed)
how the on-board computer was responsible for guiding the lander down
to the surface of the moon.  The concluded by saying "it performed
flawlessly". 

I seem to recall an episode of Nova in 1989 about the first moon
landing where they told how the on-board computer was overloaded by
all the incoming data and flatlined seconds before landing so that the
pilot had to land manually.

Which story is correct?  Or is there a new definition of the word
"flawlessly" that I wasn't previously aware of?

--
 \_____   \__ \__  \__     |  Roger H. Lincoln      | "We came in peace      |
 \__ \__  \__ \__  \__     |  MITRE Corp.           |   for all Mankind"     |
 \_____   \______  \__     |  Bedford, MA           | But all we got were    |
 \__ \__  \__ \__  \_____  |  C3I Division          |   these lousy T-Shirts |
 \__  \__ \__ \__  \_____  |  Mission Planning Sys  |                        |
From: higgins@fnalf.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: $10M from House for Magellan (was Re: Magellan Update - 04/09/92)
Date: 16 Apr 92 00:48:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: fnalf.1992Apr15.184822.1
Followup-To: sci.space
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory

In article <1992Apr14.214016.16015@news.arc.nasa.gov>, baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) writes:
>                         MAGELLAN STATUS REPORT
>                            April 9, 1992
[...]
> 5.  Reports from Washington included the good news that the
>     House Appropriations Committee included $10M for FY93
>     Magellan operations in the NASA funding bill which it plans
>     to present for House approval.

This IS good news!  But isn't ten megabucks a lot less than Magellan 
people were hoping for?  And how are things going in the Senate?

CAPTAIN BILL'S CHICAGO TOURS             Bill Higgins
 See the Loop by Submarine!              Fermilab  
Shopping?  Take our convenient           higgins@fnal.fnal.gov
Bathyscaphe to Marshall Field's!         higgins@fnal.bitnet
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: ipolyi@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (Harold H. Ipolyi 713-486-6444)
Subject: Re: DCX and making Boeing do something as well...
Organization: nasa-jsc
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 17:03:49 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.130450.1@max.u.washington.edu>, games@max.u.washington.edu writes:
|> Wheras: If DCX is sucessful then it will put McDonald Douglas
                     ^^^^^^^^^                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

          Please, at least get the name right:  McDonnell Douglas

then run the rest of your text through a spell checker!
From: BEAUFAIT@CEBAF.GOV
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V14 #1033
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:52:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

Just a comment or two Ed. If you have room for cotton or flax in your hydroponics tank then dies are no problem going back to old tech. onions make a great die
a rich yellow-brown and ther are many others. Microchips are not as hard as you think eather. Si very pure Si will be a natural by product of O2 extraction
from the lunar soil. The equiptment nessecary to proccess this ie grow crystals dope it soforth will fit in one average sized room albeit small quantities.
But a versitill ic fabrication facility is not at all out of the question for an early base.
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro
From: dj@ssd.kodak.com (Dave Jones)
Subject: Re: "The Machine That Changed The World" - inaccuracy?
Organization: :noitazinagrO
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 16:46:14 GMT

In article <RHL.92Apr15081746@d62wdf.mitre.org> rhl@d62wdf.mitre.org (Roger H. Lincoln) writes:
>
>Has anyone seen the PBS series "The Machine That Changed The World"?
>Last night (episode 2 I think) told about the role that the Apollo
>moon project had in miniaturizing the computer.  The told (and showed)
>how the on-board computer was responsible for guiding the lander down
>to the surface of the moon.  The concluded by saying "it performed
>flawlessly". 
>
>I seem to recall an episode of Nova in 1989 about the first moon
>landing where they told how the on-board computer was overloaded by
>all the incoming data and flatlined seconds before landing so that the
>pilot had to land manually.
>
>Which story is correct?  Or is there a new definition of the word
>"flawlessly" that I wasn't previously aware of?

Well, there was more than one Apollo landing.....  On Apollo 11,
Armstrong took over manual control when he noticed that the landing
area they were headed towards was strewn with boulders.  Either the
computer was malfunctioning or somebody had put in the wrong
coordinates.  Maybe the "flawless" assessment related to the overall
performance across all the missions.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Show respect for age.  Drink good Scotch for a change.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
||Dave Jones (dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com)    ||-------------------------------|
||Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, NY 14653-7300|-------------------------------|
|| If Unix is a computer system            ||-------------------------------|
|| then a pile of bricks is a house        ||-------------------------------|
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Subject: Re: ESA
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 18:13:50 GMT

bamse@IASTATE.EDU (Sten M Thernelius) writes:
>       Hi,

>          Could someone please post something about what ESA in Europe
>       is working with at the moment and what their plans for the next 
>       4-5 years are.  Could someone also post their address.
>     

	A short summary:  ESA uses the Ariane 4 booster for its launches and
is curently developing the Ariane 5, which should come online in about 3 or 4
years.  Two other major projects include the development of Hermes a mini
space shuttle, and Columbus, which will be made up of an ESA module attached
to Freedom and a free flying man tended space station.  Both Hermes and
the independant section of Columbus have been having some funding and 
engineering problems.  They have been pushed back a few years (to the turn of
the century) and may be cut.  Scientific missions include the upcoming ISO
infrared telescope, the solar studies mission Ulysses (sp?) which is currently
flying, and a Titan probe for the Cassini mission run by NASA.  In addition,
ESA is flying a number of lower profile missions, including ERS-1 (Earth
observation with SAR radar).       
	'Their adress' is going to depend on who you want to talk to and what
kind of info you want.  I'll see if I can dig up some relevant sounding ones,
and the adress for ESA Bulletins (a free quarterly ESA update)

		Josh Hopkins

Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro
From: baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Subject: Magellan Update - 04/08/92
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Keywords:  Magellan, JPL
Reply-To: baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 07:04:31 GMT

Forwarded from:
PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICE
JET PROPULSION LABORATORY
CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION
PASADENA, CALIF. 91109. TELEPHONE (818) 354-5011

                     MAGELLAN STATUS REPORT
                          April 8, 1992

     Magellan continues to map Venus under a command sequence
sent to the spacecraft April 3.  All systems are working well and
pointing accuracy of the antenna is excellent.

     Superior conjunction begins June 14 and as it approaches
there will be a need for increased use of the High Efficiency
(HEF) Deep Space Network stations and 70-meter antennas, but the
need will have to be balanced with other DSN tracking
commitments.  As during cycle 1, there will be a point prior to
June 14 when communications cannot be maintained because the sun
will be between Earth and Venus and there will be another
"superior conjunction gap".

     Spacecraft temperatures remain stable with the transmitter
now at 51.2 C (124 F). The present geometry causes the solar
panels to do an 180 degree shift as the spacecraft goes from
mapping to playback. This has accelerated the solar array drive
mechanism "slip," an accumulating difference between the array
position as indicated by the stepper motors and the onboard
computer reference. At the present slip rate, a correction
command will be needed before the weekend.
                              _____
     ___    _____     ___
    /_ /|  /____/ \  /_ /|     Ron Baalke         | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov
    | | | |  __ \ /| | | |     Jet Propulsion Lab |
 ___| | | | |__) |/  | | |__   M/S 525-3684 Telos | People will believe
/___| | | |  ___/    | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | anything if you whisper it.
|_____|/  |_|/       |_____|/                     | 

Newsgroups: sci.space
From: george@endeavor.intel.com (George Rachor Jr. )
Subject: Re: "The Machine That Changed The World" - inaccuracy?
Organization: Intel Corporation , Hillsboro  OR
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 18:14:14 GMT

> According to the astronauts involved, what actually happened is that the
> computer had to be overridden at landing - :30 seconds due to the
> presence of a rather large boulder WHERE THE LANDER WANTED TO BE.
> 
> That's the reason for the 'four left, three down' remark by Armstrong
> just before touchdown.
> 
> --
> Edward C. Otto III   	    *  E-mail addresses:  e-otto@uiuc.edu
> Printing Services Office    *  Phone:  217/333-9422
> 54A E. Gregory Drive	    *  "The only thing we have to fear is
> Champaign, IL  61820	    *  24 line .signature files..."

I had heard a story that they eventually tracked down the navigation error
that had 'Eagle' headed for the boulders.  The error was caused during the
CSM/LM separation.  They manually turned off a couple of manuvering(?) jets
during separation as to protect some antenna's on the other vehicle. Although
this made a terribly small difference in velocity the accumulated error
was enough to cause the Eagle's computer to be off by a few hundred feet
by touchdown.  Has anyone else heard this?


-- 

George Rachor Jr.
Intel Corporation