HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: re: bits
Date: 18 Aug 92 08:48:31 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

In Article 8257 xxmills@alliant1.lerc.nasa.gov (Christine Mills) writes:

(Tracy writes:)
>>When a horse puts their nose in the air the way you describe that is
>>an obvious evasion to a bit or headgear devise that is hurting the
>>horse in some way.  As with head tossing the head gear or bit should
>>be changed (or the horse should have some dentistry done as teeth
>>sometimes causes pain).  

>Be carefull here.  A horse will toss his nose, sometimes his head, simply to evade
>working.  The bit or head gear does not have to be causing discomfort. 

	We are not talking of occassional head tossing here, but of head tossing
on a regular, though not every moment, basis when pressure is applied to the 
reins.  A bit or head gear does not "have to be" causing discomfort however 
if the horse will not accept rein contact then either the riders hands or the 
bit are hurting the horse.
 
>I have a 
>lovely bit, that my horse and I get along with beautifully (found through trial
>and error).  That does not mean that when she is in a mood, she won't toss her head.
>Especially when I ask for slow and she wants to run like a race horse.  I apply
>pressure and she flips her nose trying to free her head of the bit, because she
>doesn't want to go slow.  If she continued to flip her head, I would question the
>bit or the bridle, but insistence brings her head down, and slows her.  After that,
>she nashes her teeth in disgust, but no head flipping. 

	This teeth nashing is what dressage people refer to as clenching or 
stiffening in the jaw and poll and shows the horse does not accept the bit. 
My own horse is showing some similar symptoms, currently we believe the 
problem is in my hands which are not as steady as I would like them to be
(or as my horse would like them to be, she is very sensitive), so I am taking 
lessons to correct that.  If she continues to show resistance then I will 
switch to a french mouth snaffle which may correct the problem.  By the way,
my hands have been complemented on a number of occassions as being good and
quiet, so it is important to realize that being good just isn't enough
with some horses, sometimes you have to be better.  Listening to the horse 
is of primary importance in discovering this.

				Tracy and everybody
From: sysmatt@aix3090b.uky.edu (Matt Simpson)
Subject: Re: Drivers encounter loose horses - CO2 pistol?
    <1992Aug19.182138.14727@cube.handheld.com> <1992Aug19.213740.3315@cas.org> 
    <14201@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 10:21:34 GMT

pallas@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Sarah Pallas) writes:
>I'm confused.  If a horse is not a little scared of the whip, then why
>would the whip do any good?  You want them to move away from it.  Or
>do you mean they should be apprehensive, but not panicked?

That depends on what kind of whip it is, and why you're carrying it.
Ever been foxhunting? Ever seen a horse that stands without flinching
while someone cracks a whip which sounds like a rifle shot? It takes a
lot of work to get them used to that.
People who carry hound whips frequently use the coiled whip as a crop
to urge the horse on, particularly when jumping. You do want the horse to
move when struck directly with the whip. But you do not want him to move
when it's cracked at the hounds, or when it brushes him as you're gathering
it back up and re-coiling it.
From: regard@sdd.hp.com (Adrienne Regard)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Horse attacking dogs was Drivers encounter ...
Date: 21 Aug 1992 11:36:58 -0700
Organization: Hewlett Packard, San Diego Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpsdde.sdd.hp.com

In article <92234.37691.6175190@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM> 6175190@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
>>Horses' reactions to dogs can sometimes be quite interesting. I remember once

My pony used to go after anything with a tail.  The waving of the tail seemed
to fascinate him.  He seemed very puzzled by our (tailless) dachshound (sp).


Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: juliemac@sequent.com (Julie McClanahan)
Subject: Good Luck Karen Cate!
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Distribution: pdx
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 00:44:08 GMT

I tried to send e-mail but it bounced :-(.  If you're not Karen,
delete now.




Anyway, I just want to wish Karen luck on her publication "Rails &
Trails".  There is definately a need in the area.

I'd like a free issue if possible.  My address is:
        Julie McClanahan
        11800 N.W. McDaniel Rd.
        Portland, OR  97229

I'll be sending you classifieds for the next issue, too.  Once again,
good luck!
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: Catherine Rogers <rogers@moose.cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: mechanical hackamores
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 13:17:35 -0500

well, i've been following this thread and ones like it for quite
a while now, and i must admit i'm starting to be disappointed.
This is the only non-Indiana University/work related topic that
I read -- and there was originally a reason for this.  I found it
refreshing that people generally seemed open-minded friendly and
non-dogmatic and sincerely trying to be helpful in their comments
questions and answers.  Ie.  there were no or very few flames!!!
In all of my life in academic environments I have never known insults
to be constructive or even instructive. 

Lately I've become somewhat disenchanted with this thread.  I thought
it was clear to most people that, especially with horses, it is 
a very dangerous thing to say: "Any animal that does X is most
certainly Y".  Every individual person and individual horse is 
different and will have different styles.  If you don't meet and
watch the animal, I consider it hard/ ill-advised to make 
such categorical statements.  General comments are certainly helpful
but I don't see how you can be so sure of a situation without seeing
it first hand.  Maybe you're just more perceptive of me.  Finally, 
negative and personal statements almost never make people want to take
your advice, no matter how good it may be.

Well, I am starting to ramble but I just wanted to say that while
there are certainly broadly accepted norms, and while abuse is
certainly not to be tolerated, there are a vast variety of individual
styles in existence, each individual has to decide which is the
most comfortable style for him/her-- quite often it is a combination
of styles -- that goes for training, tack/equipment, and riding.

I would very much like to see this group turn back into the friendly
and open group that it was (and generally is) instead of the long
winded, pages-long dogmatic nitpicking by closed minded people that
i've seen on other newsgroups.  This one is far from that but there
is a tendency i think should be noted.  This is about the only contact
I get with horses and horse people right now until I finsish my PhD
and it has been a really pleasant one (i've really learned a lot) and
I would like it to remain that way.

I hope this is not taken the wrong way.  I'm really not pointing a 
finger at an individual person  ... I don't even generally note which
lines are from whom so I couldn't possibly do that if i tried.

sorry this is so long, i just wanted to  get it off my chest.

cathy rogers
indiana university
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: krystek@alcor.bms.com (Stanley Krystek)
Subject: shows at Quentin 
Organization: Bristol-Myers Squibb, Macromolecular Modeling
Distribution: rec.equestrian
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:03:03 GMT


Does any one know about shows at Quentin, PA?

How to get there?  and more specifically any number to 
call to find out about the MID A Morgan Horse show that is
there now.  Aug 19, 20, 21, 22?

A friend just told me about the show and I would like info 
before I drive two hours to find out most of it is over by
Sat 22nd.

Thanks in advance.....

stan

--
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>==*==<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<>                                                                           <>
<>     .-----.      Stanley R. Krystek, Jr., Ph.D.               .-----.     <>
<>    / \   / \     Bristol-Myers Squibb Pharmaceutical         / \   / \    <>
<>   /   \ /   \    Research Institute                         /   \ /   \   <>
<>   ----- -----    Department of Macromolecular Modeling      ----- -----   <>
<>   \   / \   /    P.O. Box 4000    Room H.3812               \   / \   /   <>
<>    \ /   \ /     Princeton, N.J.  08543-4000                 \ /   \ /    <>
<>     `-----'                                                   `-----'     <>
<>                  (609) 252-4100  FAX: (609) 252-6030                      <>
<>                  INTERNET:  krystek@bms.com                               <>
<>                                                                           <>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>==*==<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
From: reichard@nb.rockwell.com (Diane Reichard)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Irish - small horse, so what ? (Re: more olympics)
Date: 19 Aug 1992 17:06:09 GMT
Organization: Rockwell International


Irish really isn't that small.  15.3 is a little smaller than average for
jumpers, but it's nowhere in the league of Stroller (14.2).  More remarkable
was that Irish is only 8 as was Ludger Beerbaum's horse, Classic Touch.
Both of these are very young horses without much international experience.
On this account, their performance impressed me much more than Irish's size.

Diane
From: pallas@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Sarah Pallas)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: The Whip Was: CO2 pistol
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:44:04 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston,Tx

In article <1992Aug20.205724.13107@cco.caltech.edu> deblev@nimoy.ipac.caltech.edu (Debbie Levine) writes:
 (omitted discussion about how horse should not be afraid of or
apprehensive about the whip)
 >The whip is basically an extension of your leg.  You want the
 >horse to move forward from the whip when you are asking him
 >to move forward from the leg, or you might use it further behind
 >the girth than your leg can easily go to help clarify the idea
 >of moving away from your leg in lateral movements.
 >
 >Hope that helps!
 >  Debbie

Thanks, Debbie.  I understand exactly what you're saying.  But in the
case of keeping strange horses away, or even in the case of longe
line work, it still seems to me that the horse is thinking "If I
don't move away from that whip, I'm afraid I'll get hit with it".
So that still seems like the horse is afraid of the whip.  Maybe
it's just a matter of semantics?

Sarah Pallas
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Equestrian out of Olympics??
From: Bliss B. Siman <ROPBB@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Monday, 17 Aug 1992 19:09:23 EDT
 ET> <1992Aug10.212433.2299@cbnewsd.cb.att.com><1992Aug13.150257.16099@sniap.mchp.sni.de>
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

The prediction about the Olympics coming down to 5 sports seems unlikely since
they keep adding things like rhythmic gymnastics etc.
From: lcasey@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: re: QH congress program
Date: 18 Aug 92 14:43:14 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

Kitty,

Here's the info on the Congress you wanted:
Open freestyle reining-Mon. 10/19 eve.
Non-pro freestyle reining-Fri. 10/16 eve.
Versatility-Fri. 10/23 eve.
Amt. versatility-Tues. 10/20 afternoon
NRHA open championship reining-Fri. 10/16 afternoon
Straight Arrow open reining futurity finals-sun. 10/18 eve.

Demos: 10/15-10/18,10/20,10/23

Cutting-Jody Galyean
Western Riding- Casey Hinton
Reining-Doug Milholland
Halter-Charlie Dobbs
English-Jerry Erickson
Horsemanship/equitation patterns-Patty Boxell
Western pleasure-Doug Carpenter

Lectures: 10/14-10/23

Judging reining-NRHA
Team Penning-Dan Delaney
AQHA programs-AQHA
Reining-NRHA
Amateur forum
Mgt. of mare and foal-OSU
Equine breathing problems-OSU
Nutrition-OSU
Endotoxic shock syndrome-OSU
Colic-OSU
Equine reproductive breeding efficiency-OSU
Lameness diagnosis-OSU
First aid-OSU
Focus to win-Martha Josey

If you need to know anything else, let me know.

Leigh
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 22:03:52 EDT
From: <CSS3@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: black quarter horses
 <1992Aug14.153942.9450@uoft02.utoledo.edu>

The presence of brown hairs around the muzzle is one good way to tell that
a horse is not a true black, as mentioned by another person on the net. I own
2 black horses and they DO bleach out in the summer; most people might even thi
nk they were bay, but their muzzle hair is always black. They only really look
totally black for a couple weeks in the spring when they lose their winter hair
 and the new spring coat comes in. Unless a black horse is kept inside a lot,
it will bleach out quite a bit. I opt to have mine out on pasture and as a
result get to see that wonderful shiny total blackness only occasionally. Hope
this helps clarify the issue.
From: amarch@garnet.berkeley.edu (Anne Marchant)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Lipizzan herd/ranch for sale
Date: 17 Aug 1992 03:41:50 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu
Keywords: Lipizzan, ranch for sale
Originator: amarch@garnet.berkeley.edu



A RARE OPPORTUNITY!

320/520 beautiful acres (with or without house/barn/facilities) in
the heart of the Ozarks (Arkansas) is for sale. The ranch has a herd
of Lipizzans (2 breeding stallions, broodmares, young stock) which
may be sold with the ranch or sold separately.

The ranch is fenced and cross fenced.  The land includes woods and
pasture.  The terrain is "as close as you can get in this country
to the conditions in Piber."  The climate is temperate--all in all,
an excellent place to raise horses!

The person to contact is Annie Holmes (501) 861-5877.

Anne Marchant
amarch@garnet.berkeley.edu

P.S.  Disclaimer:  This is posted in the hope that it will be of interest
to Usenet subscribers and that it may serve to benefit the Lipizzan breed.
I do not expect a commission or to profit from the sale of this property/
stock in any way.

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: pfau@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (lynn.r.pfau)
Subject: Re: IRISH - how big is small?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:22:24 GMT

In article <Bt6MyG.5C@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, rmvale@watnow.uwaterloo.ca (Ruth Vale) writes:
> 
> The announcer I heard said he was 16h.  I, personally, don't consider
> that small.  But then again, I'm short.   Although I ride English
> and have for years, I consider the English obsession with monstrous
> size to be at ludicrous.  Small doesn't mean that can't jump, as
> Irish has shown us clearly.
> 
> Give me a Lippett Morgan (less than 15.1), and I'll show you a horse!
> 
> Ruth
> 

Ruth:

I agree totally - at our barn, some people buy the most untalented
horses, only because they're big (not to imply that all big horses
are untalented). My mare is 15'3" - small by most of todays standards,
and she can jump 3'6" beautifully (as high as I'd ever want to go),
consistently beats the big horses in hunter hack classes, and
I'm sure had she been a hand bigger, I would have paid another
$5000 for her. 
Like someone else said, I too like to hear success stories about
the "little" horses.

Lynn Pfau
AT&T
Naperville, Il
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: red@prc.unisys.com (Rebecca Davis)
Subject: Bowed tendon, sniff
Reply-To: red@prc.unisys.com
Organization: Paramax Systems
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:01:01 GMT

Before I get to the bowed tendon part, I have to give you a little
background.

After saving up for a few years, I bought a very flashy grey quarter
horse mare who had racked up the points in Western Pleasure competitions.
She passed her vet check, and went lame 3 days later with what was finally
diagnosed as navicular.  The dealer who sold her to me took her back and
gave me a not-so-flashy but sturdy Morgan mare instead.  Her personality
leaves a bit to be desired, as she's extremely marish and witchy, but
she is extremely responsive and is a joy to ride.  She had been out to
pasture for months before I acquired her, and had quite a grass belly
on her.  (I should have recognized this as a warning sign.)  

For about six months we had bi- or tri-weekly trail rides, with moderate
trotting, cantering, and jumping an occasional small log.  Then I moved
her to pasture board at a farther distance from the trails I like the most,
so daily rides became a little longer and involved jumping two 2-ft obstacles
to get to the trails.  After two weeks of this kind of riding, my Morgan
had a bowed tendon.  

She went lame immediately after taking one of these small obstacles (two
logs piled to keep motorcycles off the trail), though her landing had
been clean.  And there it was, that horror of horrors - a bowed tendon.
The vet says it will take six months before anyone should get on her, and
then it's a long recovery process until she'll be ready for even the moderate
riding I was doing before minus the jumping.

My question is, what have been the experiences of netters as regarding the
soundness of a horse after a bowed tendon has healed?  I suspect that
this is an old injury, and she will be okay for lite riding, no jumping of
even small logs.

The dealer who sold her to me has offered to buy her back for exactly the
amount of money a meat dealer would give, which indicates what he'd do with
her if I accepted that offer.  So, depending on responses from the net world,
I may be looking to give her away as a babysitter if anyone out there is
interested.

Thanks in advance.
Rebecca Davis
red@prc.unisys.com


============
REPONDEZ S'IL VOUS PLAID 
translation: Honk if you're Scots
From: cbrand@cac.washington.edu (Carol Brand)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: riding without a girth?
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:06:34 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UW Networks and Distributed Computing

In article <1992Aug18.170132.9093@morrow.stanford.edu> AS.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon) writes:
>In article <18AUG199211040106@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov>,
>afallen@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (E. Allen Arrington) writes:
>>but that's another long story).  During our efforts to help the horse
>>theere was a lesson going on in the arena and the student was riding the
>>horse (hunt seat) without a girth.  Is this a normal teaching practice?
>>
>
>Are you serious? Did she die or what? I am utterly amazed.
>
>-gwyn


Nope I've had instructors do this before.  It's really not as tough as
it sounds.  If you have one of those old time TBs with the huge
withers, it takes an act of congress to move the saddle. Of course, if
you are riding a round-backed Arab or QH it might be a bit more
difficult :^). 

Now that I'm an adult (I did this as a junior) I'm not sure what
purpose the exercise serves.  I can't see that it teaches balance
because you already need pretty good balance to keep the saddle in
place (I would think that this exercise would be disastrous for a
beginning rider). 

Maybe it serves to build confidence in an intermediate rider?  It can
prove to a rider that they can ride independent of their tack.  Or
maybe it shows riders who think they are experienced just how
"unbalanced" they really are. 

Anyone else have to do this?

-Carol
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: lisaco@microsoft.com (Lisa Copeland)
Subject: Horses For Sale
Date: 16 Aug 92 22:55:30 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Distribution: usa


I am posting this for someone:

Amateur Dressage Horses For Sale

Quintana
12  year old Trakhener Cross
Liver Chestnut with a blaze
Trained and Shown by amateurs through second level
Gentle and easy to ride, good gaits, no vices,  excellent training

Nishan
18 year old Thoroughbred Cross
bay with four white socks
Pretty mover, fun to ride    
Trained and shown through second level 
No vices, easy to work around

If interested,  Contact Roxanne Christensen at Woodinville Riding Club
This is in the Seattle Washington area (206) 481-1377
From: kcumming@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (kcumming)
Subject: strange scottish dialect
Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 12:54:51 GMT

I like that Gwyn.  I hadn't realized how bad my typing had gotten in
that post.  It did look something akin to a foriegn language didn't it.

Kitty Cummings ;^)
Kit-Mar Appaloosas
Ritter Hof German Shepherds
From: pfau@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (lynn.r.pfau)
Subject: Re: huntseat hand position
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 14:37:42 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.152731.11848@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu>, kcumming@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (kcumming) writes:

		text deleted
> 
> When you canter, to have good hands at a canter, you must 'ossilate'
> with your hands.  Your hands cannot be truly 'still' when you are
> cantering.  In reality, 'still' hands are those that are moving in rythm
> to the horse. 

		text deleted
> 
> Kitty Cummings
> Kit-Mar Appaloosas
> Ritter Hof German Shepherds

Kitty - I agree with your description of hunt seat hands totally.
It is also true that your hands should follow the motion of the
horses head and neck at the walk (assuming that you're walking
on contact), as well as at the canter. Some horses (mine is one)
have a lot of head motion at the walk - in fact, the walk is
where my dressage instructor had me do most of my practice
with a following hand.

thanks for the good description,
Lynn Pfau
AT&T
Naperville, Il
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian