HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:50:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.43843
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR

In article <1992Oct8.182246.9050@netcom.com> jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
>In article <mattm-061092143948@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew 
>Melmon) writes:
>>
>>There are a number of situations where arriving in a $2,500 dollar suit
>>will confer upon you a different treatment than arriving in an old
>>grey sweater and tenis shoes.  Fine restaurants.  Banks.  Job interviews.
>
>If I were conducting the interview, you'd be right.  I would think one of
>two things: 
>
>1) "What's he trying to pull?"
>
>2) "He doesn't need a job - he can afford to spend $2,500 on a suit." 

Actually, there is a small subset of jobs where wearing a good suit is
key.  If the job requires that you interface with the public and represent
a firm, then showing up in a ratty suit isn't going to be a plus.  If
you are interviewing with a prestigious law firm, that Armani might make
a difference.

However, if someone were to show up for an interview in a research group
such as mine at Intel wearing an Armani, then I would tend to suspect that
the person feels that they can impress their way into the job.  Definite
minus.  That is why I tend to conduct interviews in my standard jeans
and t-shirt with scuffed white Reebok's (hate Nike's).  Typically, I
am the person who takes the candidate to lunch as well.  I always take
them some place nice, however.  If the suit is for show, they typically
are uncomfortable with the disparity in our attire.

By and large, Intel hires minds, not suits.  Obviously expensive suits
look as though you are trying to divert attention from your mind.  It
gets noticed.  When I ask one of my famous unanswerable questions, the
clothing of the candidate rarely affects the answer.

Fashion talks, but make sure it's the right crowd.  There are times when
wearing just the right fade of levi's with the exact right leather
jacket will open all the right doors.

--mark
--
Mark Morrissey           One Hatred to rule them all.  One Hatred to find them.
markm@cse.ogi.edu        One Hatred to bring them all and in the darkness bind
                         them.  In the land of Bigotry where the Shadows lie.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Culture (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 19:01:56 GMT

In article <1b74loINNsd1@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

>In article <CARLTON.92Oct7172343@scws1.harvard.edu> 
>carlton@scws1.harvard.edu (david carlton) writes, 
>
>> I got the feeling that I would have liked it
>> a lot more if I had lived when it was made, though.  Or at least I
>> felt distanced from what was going on for some reason; it may have
>> been as much that it wasn't American or British as the time
>> difference.  I don't remember it and my feelings about it clearly
>> enough to be sure.
>
>That's a very common feeling about early sound and silent 
>films (the feeling of being distanced).

Of the few silent films I've seen, "distanced" is not how I'd
characterize their relationship to me.  While I do plead guilty to
being a member of the MTV generation (and thus go through a period of
internal adjustment every time I watch a silent film), these films
tend to leave me with a far more lasting impression than the "talkies"
do.  Perhaps it's because of the lack of sound, but I really think
that it was the different cinematic language that had to be invented,
as you say.  In any case, I tend to come away feeling enraptured
rather than alienated.  In David's case, it might well be simply the
cultural context of THE BLUE ANGEL which led him to feel distanced.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "You are just naive and repressed because
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /  penis envy is here and it's now and it's
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  all around you." -- Neal C. Wickham
From: drollin@seq.uncwil.edu (David A. Rollins)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sooner Rather Than Later (was Re: WARNING)
Date: 14 Oct 92 04:47:49 GMT
Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington


I agree with much of what you said, however, fighting racism with
racism and perpetuating violence is not the answer.

-- 
David Rollins                 |  I OWN A COMMODORE/AMIGA 2000.  
Email: drollin@seq.uncwil.edu |  I'M GOOD ENOUGH. I'M SMART ENOUGH,
Voice: 919-763-4115           |  AND DOGGONE IT, PEOPLE LIKE ME!
From: hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu (William Hsu)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Restaurants in SF
Date: 16 Oct 92 00:30:58 GMT
Reply-To: hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu

In article <67736@cup.portal.com>  writes:
> 
> Greens - I'm not a vegetarian, but Greens makes a good case for it.
> Fabulous salads and breads, and a wonderful variety of flavorful
> vegetarian dishes.  Expensive, dressy, and reservations days in advance
> are required.

Greens didn't seem that dressy the one Sat. night I was there. There
were a variety of ,ummm, "dress", both Bruce and I wore tshirts and
jeans (I had scuffed-up boots), and nobody gave us any looks.

Our waiter was very friendly, had nice circular barbells in both ears,
didn't know where the International Mr. Drummer contest was held but
said he'd be interested in going if he knew.

Bill
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: stephena@netcom.com (Stephen Arrants)
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 15:02:08 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.134537.20214@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>>It makes Madonna's cone-tit outfit look like
>>something from off the rack in the Cheryl Tiegs boutique at Sear's.
>
>	If it *were* madonna's.  She stole idea that from yet-another
>icons of the past.
>
>BBC

Which one was that?  Jane Darwell?
From: ST402341@brownvm.brown.edu (Gary Byma)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.mot
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:52:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: stanley.1bf9iuINNclp
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

In article <1992Oct13.153338.3279@wam.umd.edu>, lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald
Andrew Agarrat) said:
>
>There are two events.  What happened 200 years ago and what's happening today.
>How does one expect to "fix" today by ignoring yesterday?
>
>Your story was cute, but has slave mentality amongst Whites really been "left
>at the stream" or do we still see it in full force today in our society?  I
>WANT to leave it behind.  I WANT these problems solve.  I don't WANT to be
>angry for the rest of my life!  But, it's those little everyday things in my
>life that remind me of who I am.  Those things don't let me forget ...
>
>Donald - Nigger Stompin' African!

I think that you could make your case much better if you gave examples
of those everyday things that remind you of who you are. Someone once
told me that a man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man
with an argument. If it happened to you and it shapes how you feel,
tell us about it.
I learned from a friend that being the member of a minority means
daily facing the possibility of racism. People who are not members
of a minority, rarely encounter these incidents. And if we gain an advantage
in a job or housing situation because we are white, chances are, we
won't be aware of it although the person of color would be.
I would be better able to understand your anger and frustration by
learning of how it feels to confront racism daily than to have a
blind accusing finger pointed at me when you have no idea of my
circumstances.

Gary Byma
From: laura@hoptoad.uucp (Laura Creighton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Oregon poll
Date: 7 Oct 92 09:49:36 GMT
Reply-To: laura@hoptoad.UUCP (Laura Creighton)
Organization: Nebula Consultants in San Francisco

In article <BvpFIw.J4@agora.rain.com> bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:
>I want to *CRUSH* the OCA.  I WANT THEIR TOMBSTONE TO READ "MEASURE 9".
>
>Then I want us to pass a statewide antidiscrimination law next year.
>I'm too young for this shit.

All of us were too young for this shit, too.
Welcome to our world, which is indeed, the whole world.

I am reading Gleik's biography of Feynman this week.  (badly written,
don't waste the $$ I did on the hardback)  An astonishing thing  was
the talk about the discrimination against Jews for getting into
an undergrad program (most universities had a Jew quota) and
getting into a grad program (you better have the right
letters).  The discrimination didn't surprise me, it was
how very foreign and alien  that is now.

We're doing it, gang.  We're taking a world where discrimination
was the norm and turning it into a world where all sorts of
discrimination is considered wrong, per se.

We're doing it gang.   good for us!

  Like he said ``I'm too young for this shit. ''
 
>Brent Capps           | 
>bcapps@agora.rain.com | Know what to kiss, and when.
>bcapps@atlastele.com  |


-- 
    Since Ryan White was buried in April 1990, his grave has been vandalized
    four times.

    (this news courtesy Rod Williams rjwill6@pacbell.com)

Laura Creighton 
toad@toad.com
hoptoad!laura
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo)
Subject: Re: CABAL stuff
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 92 21:44:32 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <BvrLxs.C01@hpuerca.atl.hp.com> mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser) writes:
>In <7qgp5a+@lynx.unm.edu> anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo) writes:
>
>>PS, it's a nice feeling on my nipple rings when the cold air hits them in the
>>morning as I get out of bed!!!
>
>Have you tried a tanning bed?  My husbear swore that his nipple rings were
>"liitle minature shish-kebobs" the first time he tried a Wolff (sp?) machine.
>
No, I don't believe in artificial canceration. :)  
I have heated them before though with candles/matches/lighter.  It's real
intense, but you have to be real careful not to burn the skin.  A friend
of mine did that once about a year ago.  Not pretty.

Flapjack
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.
Date: 12 Oct 92 04:34:55 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <thaaang.718862926@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>I think that it's going to be hard for anyone to become an icon anymore,
>because the press is much more voracious (I think) towards digging up
>the dirt about stars than they were 40 or so years ago; newsreels and
>prepared press statements and publicity stunts were the primary avenues
>for learning about stars back then; the National Enquirer has replaced
>those avenues, and its style of muckraking has become the norm for the
>media as far as finding news goes. It's more honest, but it destroys
>opportunities for iconicizing and makes it harder to keep a carreer
>going untainted.

Well, that PROVES Madonna isn't an icon!

John, we were talking cultural icon, not Catholic sainthood! :-)

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: hughes@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: My Bad Mouth
Date: 16 Oct 92 04:32:58 GMT
Organization: Botany Department - U of Georgia, Athens

In article <thaaang.719207099@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>
>John, wondering he's going to do write some kind of big, sappy thank-
>you thing 
>
   Ask Dad for help.  (The one in Maryland.)

   Wayne
   really, smileys here
From: lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Date: 13 Oct 92 15:23:23 GMT
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1992Oct13.144903.17443@sunova.ssc.gov> jbaron@dirac.ssc.gov (Jeff  
Baron) writes:
} The real problem is that there are people in the world who
} hate.  They may hate fags or niggers or spics, but they need
} some outlet for their hate.  You simply hate whites.

Oh really?  I'm glad you cleared that up for me.

} But not once, not *one* time in my years in NYC and Dallas,
} did I ever come to the conclusion that they hated people.
} You are different.  You are like George Bush, who hates 
} gays, or the Skinheads or KKK'ers who hate blacks.  It
} is your people (your words, not mine) that fill the world with hate.

Get a clue.  No, in fact, get two.

Let's all just love one another, right?  Besides, I didn't PERSONALLY bring you  
over here on infested slave ships, right?  Let's just forget about the past and  
forge a new future together as one, right?  WRONG!  Wake up!

} You want to clean up the world?  Start with yourself.

Gee, that doesn't sound like it's spoken with experience.

Donald - Nigger Stompin' African!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 23:17:17 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <PC.92Oct13084753@bacon.linus.mitre.org>, pc@linus.mitre.org
(Penny Chase) wrote:
> 
> In article <1b5su8INNo8b@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> 
>    Oh, and one more thing.  As with saints in the Roman Catholic
>    Church (and in the Eastern Orthodox Church, which is where the
>    whole business of icons originates), icons can be summed up
>    in a brief phrase, or in a conventionalized representation.
> 
> Right!  In fact (based on the Eastern Orthodox concept of icon), I've
> always thought that an icon is an *image* of the person, not the
> person.  Or perhaps better, an image of the key attributes of the
> person.  And that image not merely summarizes the person, but stands
> for the person in some way.

The religious icon is an image of the person, yes.  Often, the
person is a mythical (or semi-mythical) individual.  The intent of
the icon is to communicate to a (largely) illiterate (like *moi*)
audience what it is that invidual stands for.  Donahue took 
exception to my earlier assertion that this was the case, though
I'm not sure why.  His point seemed to be that the icons were
not portraits.  No.  Not in the Dutch Masters sense.  They serve
a symbolic - and almost pagan - function.  Dangerous violations of
one of them there Thou Shalt Nots, some religious scholars would
probably argue.

As the icons of old *were* images, applying the term to a real
person, rather than an image of the real person, may be a bit off.
I shall retreat from claiming that Madonna *herself* is an icon,
and instead maintain that the *image* of Madonna acts as an
icon - it sybmolizes the woman, and persons seeing the image 
immediately think of what the woman represents:  to some, 
absurd media sensationalism, to others wanton exhibitionism,
to others a do-as-I-please individuality, etc.  In other words,
people see more than Madonna 'the person' when they see an
image of her.

This, I believe, *was* true of Dietrich in the past.  Today, by
and large, I do not believe most people would recognize her - 
and she therefore fails to invoke additional mental imagery.  
A picture of Meryl Streep will likely lead to nothing more than,
"Hmm, that's Meryl Streep."  This despite the fact that she is
one of the most accomplished actresses (or mimics) alive today.
And so talent, alone, is not sufficient.  Nor is contribution
to mankind.  Was it Dolphie who pointed out that Einstein, not
Teller, was the icon?  I would agree.  I do believe that
Einstein, even today, symbolizes the 'genius.'  He is, perhaps,
losing some of this power as increasingly few people recognize
him.  I cannot, of course, know for certain - but I would say
that more people would recognize Einstein's picture than 
Dietrich's, even though he is 'older' (though the Princeton years
corresponded largely with Dietrich's time, yes?  no?)  But Teller's
impact on human civilization is as great as Einstein's.  The
threat of global annihilation and all...

Melmothra, ACC
From: gklein@uoft02.utoledo.edu (Gary Klein, bear at heart)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: More trivialization of red ribbons
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:23:59 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Carlson Library, Univ of Toledo

In article <1992Oct14.112359.20506@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, rcrice@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (roger.w.crice) writes:
> I noticed last night before the VP debate, when the families 
> of the candidates were being seated, that Marilyn Quayle was
> proudly wearing a pink, perhaps white, ribbon on her lapel.
> 
> Is there any speculation as to what THAT was all about?

     During her interview on FAITH DANIELS morning show, Mon 10/12, someone
from the audience asked about the pink ribbon, and she explained what it was
for.  I cannot recall at the moment, but it was a cause that everyone cared
about, but was not otherwise political (no it was not AIDS or Motss oriented).
-- 

                                               "Librarian, Leather bound"
Gary Klein,   Business Librarian,  (Univ of Toledo)           * * * * 
PO Box 12650                  Toledo OH  43606-0250            *   *   
(w): 419-537-2629      fac2813@uoft01                            *   
(h): 419-243-2740      fac2813@uoft01.utoledo.edu         B4 t+ w- g s+ k
From: ro@panix.com (r l reid)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Date: 8 Oct 92 15:05:43 GMT
Organization: MOTSS CABAL, NO MORE CHINESE FOOD DIVISION

In article <1992Oct6.205433.20980@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>	Now, I will say this on the idea of suits:  Bears in suits
>drive me crazy.   I mean we're talking Pavlovian.  It's not the suit
>or the make and model of the suit, per se... it's the image.
Hmmm - you're just like my friend.  "A man in a suit"...causes my 
friend to want to open the fly on those suspendered slacks.

>But let's face it - $2500 is a lot to spend on a fantasy!  :-) :-) :-)
(You mean like the 68040 upgrade for my NeXT?  Yeah...)  For the
purposes mentioned above, I found that the 3 piece I got at Alexander's
going out of business for $69 works just fine.

I do have one question on men's suits.  Why are they all made of wool?
Wool makes me itch and sneeze.  I can't be the only person this happens
to.  It means I can ONLY wear the cheapest of suits - 100% Polyester.
I like a touch of poly in the white shirts, but a whole suit made of
it?  Why not silk?


-- 
		r l reid	ro@panix.com
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Monday, 5 Oct 1992 15:11:54 EDT
From: <SECBH@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject:    re: Red Rubbon Rant

dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:

>I fucking hate those damn red ribbons which seem to be ....

>.............. Compassion of PWAs and PWARCs should
>be standard equipment, not something to announce via a fucking
>ribbon.

Yes, but its not.  Therefore, I feel that the red ribbons can serve
to stimulate interest and help to keep the epidemic in the public
awareness.

>If all these people wearing the ribbons were doing something,
>the ribbon could be a badge of pride.  Instead, they are
>celebrity political wear, and are now becoming a heterosexual fashion
>thing.

Of course we really don't know what all the people wearing the red
ribons have done in the course of the epidemic, but I think plenty
of them (in my limited experience) have done something --donate
money, volunteer at a fundraiser, act as buddies, etc.

I first came across the red ribbons in connection with a fundraiser
for theatre people with AIDS -- in NYC AIDS has cut quite a swathe
among theatre people.  Manhattan Towers, a housing complex specifically
for people in the entertainment business, has its own internal AIDS
organization for example.  It has been my assumption that the
red ribbons originated because of volunteer efforts in the entertainment
industry and that this is what accounts for the fact that so many
celebrities where them on public occasions.  I don't think it hurts.
Americans seem to assume that someone who acts or sings for a living
is automatically someone to be listened to and emulated.

Each of us gets their buttons pushed by different things.  My
associations with the red ribbon badge happen to be good ones.

>Why did Barbara Bush wear a red ribbon for her speech at the Republican
>convention and then remove it when she went on stage with her husband?

My guess is because The Powers That Be (including her husband perhaps)
did not want the president even remotely associated with something
which could be interpreted as pro-homosexual.  I am  not
particularly a Barbara Bush fan, but it occured to me that the
fact she did wear it for _her_ speech may have meant that there was
some private face-off over this.  We'll probably never know.

>Fuck yer ribbon.

Fuck 'em all sez I, but I want to prioritize my list.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Jack Carroll   "Man is nice enough, when he is not excited by religion."
<SECBH@CUNYVM>
                                                             Mark Twain
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: CABAL stuff
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 01:57:39 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Oct9.054135.27791@adobe.com> <67456@cup.portal.com>
  <1992Oct10.052617.28028@macc.wisc.edu>

Jess Anderson writes:
>Probably won't get another chance to be an icon, either.

You could very well be wrong. I've not seen James in a while
so I don't know if his standing offer to appear is still open
or not, but I would imagine it is. And come to think of it,
I *have* been nude on videotape, though not in a sexual context.

(And I do mean in a commercially sold video, not a private
tape.)
 
() The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for
() curiosity.
()      -- Ellen Parr
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Camille Paglia on fashion (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Date: 7 Oct 92 19:04:18 GMT
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Originator: glp@merlin


In article <1992Oct7.012335.28329@wam.umd.edu>, lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat) writes:
|> } IN is caring, caring for the environment, for society and
|> } for the less fortunate.  We *respect* people of colour,
|> } unless they're, er, *too* black, and the differently-abled,
|> 
|> Excuse me, but would you mind filling me in on what it is to be *too* black?

You know, the noisy ones, the ones who don't realize how
good they really have it in this country and appreciate
the things we've given them.  Also, the really dark ones
make us nervous because they look dangerous.

It's like those gay people who want to shove their homosexual
agenda down people's throats, wanting special rights and acting
like that in public.

-- 
Greg Parkinson                  Phone: 212-657-7814  Fax: 212-825-8607
Citibank,111 Wall Street        E-Mail: glp@fig.citib.com
New York, New York  10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Subject: Re: What adjectives do you think best describe romantic jealous
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 13:59:49 GMT

nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>Shadenfreude? I thought it was Yiddish, actually,

The connections between Yiddish and German are extreme, of course words
will be part of both languages.

In fact, listening to Yiddish sometimes makes me think I'm listening to
a German with a speech-impediment. I guess for people who grew up with
Yiddish it is the other way around.

The Dutch word is 'Leedvermaak.' It's almosrt the same.

								FJ!!
Newsgroups: soc.motss