From: anon-1055@twwells.com (m&m)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: faith (was Re:Religion , Re: Blackness & Guilt)
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:11:51 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com

I'm going to going to share of what my faith is combining and pulling
stuff from two earlier posts;  one by Silver Tiger (Blackness & guilt)
and one by Noel (Re: Religion).

so ...

<<<<<<<<***** RELIGIOUS SPOILER *****>>>>>>>>>
.... also it got sorta long !!!






























The first and most important thing I want to say was said so well by Noel that
I'm quoting it verbatim:

N> All in all: If your religion or belief system  helps you love yourself and  
N> others in a  true healthy all encompassing way, keep it.  If it makes you 
N> hate, fear and judge otherswho are different, or encourges you to feel 
N> guilty, unhappy and self-loathing, hey, chuck it out the window.  
N> Its like this:  gee, I am thirsty, and I am trapped here in
N> this room with only glass of orange juice an a glass of Liquid Plummer.  Which should
N> I drink?

What I am talking about is strictly what works for me.  Its different from an opinion,
since an opinion to me implies something analytical (more left brain type stuff).  What
I am expressing here is something that is an integral part of who I am.  As such I welcome
hearing who you are, but please DO NOT try to tell me I am not who I say I am or that I
am stupid for being who I am!!

In retrospect my preoccupation with understanding the relationship between God and
myself was motivated by being sexually molested.  For me being sexually molested turned
my world completely inside out and upside down.  Even though I did not conciously 
remember the abuse, I was DRIVEN to rexamine my world and try to figure out how to make
it make sense.

First I was as a result of circumstances beyond my control born and raised in a Catholic
christian home.  As such you may detect a christian flavor to what I say below.  I 
absolutely abhorr and reject claims of any religion being the absolute and only true
religion - and within Christian theology I have not seen, read or heard anything which
supports the claims by some that christianity is the one true road to salvation.  People
and sects who claim this are IN MY OPINION just groups of people who have twisted and
manipulated something for their own purposes.  (note I am very happy I was born in the
home I was, and that my faith has developed as it has - it is a tremendous comfort to me).
 
I am going to use Silver Tiger's post as a framework for expressing my faith:

ST> Ok, look.  My view of God is like this.  If It exists, how could It let
ST> this abuse go on.  "God protects the little children."  Right.  Sure.
ST> At the time of my abuse, I believed in God.  I went to Bible camp.
ST> I prayed every night.  I, too, thought God was punishing me.  I was
ST> wracked by guilt.  As I grew older, I realized I had not done anything
ST> wrong.  If there is a Supreme Being, It cannot be all-powerful, or it
ST> would have prevented my abuse.  If it is not all-powerful, how can
ST> it be the Supreme Being?  If we assume abuse is the fault of a Devil,
ST> then how can a Devil be more powerful than an all-powerful God?


God has given us the gift of love.  For me this love is the manifestation of God 
within me.  But we have also been given free will.  I think the choice we have been given 
is to either be loving or not.  Its not that if we are loving we will eventually go to
heaven, and that if we are not loving (=evil) we will go to hell after dying.  
Rather God has created us in Her/His image, which is that the more loving we are 
(ie both able to receive love and able to give love) the more joy we will experience 
in our lives.

As part of the "Our Father" or Lord's Prayer, which seems to be one of the few things
all Christian variations have in common, there is a line which goes something like this:
 "... Your kingdom come, Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven ..."
God's kingdom is here and now - its not in some after-life of heaven.  By striving to 
live a life of love we are following Her/His will (which is an integral part of my
nature) and my life will be more joyful.  If I ignore love and lead a life without love
I will (I think) be living a life ruled by fear & I will make my own hell on this earth.

The best discussion I have ever read of evil and the Devil was Scott Peck's book
''The People of the Lie''  I heartily recommend it.  It is his proposal of a framework
for including the existence of evil within the framework of psychology.  It is based on
case studies, not on some theological belief system.

All of our ancestors were given this free will as well.  What this means is that there can 
be a whole lot of non-loving (=evil) choices made along the way, so that Shelly was born 
into a family that was filled with this evil, and she was horribly abused as a consequence 
of it.  Some people are so horribly abused that they never experience any loving.  This
is where I have come to believe there has to be some continuation of life after death.

Just as I cannot believe that God would create billions of people and then decree that the
vast majority are condemned to some kind of eternal hell just because they did not proclaim
Jesus as their personal savior - I also cannot believe that God created us so that children
would be born into unbelievably awful existences and then die.  So their whole experience 
of life is one of horror.  It just seems reasonable to me (based on my belief that there is
an omnipotent God) that there must be some continuation of life after death.

To a large extent I think God has created us so that there is not direct intervention
required.  Maybe there is no intervention & miracles are just our somewhat unskilled
tapping into tremendous reserves inside of ourselves.  Maybe prayer, and entreaties to
God for help somehow get us in touch with ourselves at a deeper level.  

2 other books that I related to extremely well were both written by CS Lewis, they are
`Surprised by Joy': this is his autobiographical description of his acceptence of the
existence of God as a loving omnipotent *personality*, and hsi understanding and
relationship with this God within a christian framework.
`Mere Christianity' is another book where he proposes a way of life, which is a consequence
of believeing in a loving omnipotent God.  Its not a cookbook of `how to live a christian
life',  its more ...  hmm its been a couple years since I read it, and I can't quite
describe what it is any more.  I'm going on a weekend retreat entitled "A Way of Life"
this weekend - maybe I'll bring it along to reread :)

For me God is an all powerful personality.  Another name for God is Love.  During a 
massage a month ago this startling analogy came to me which I really liked. 
The love God has for me is very similar to the love I have for my son Gregory.  I want
the best for him.  My love for him is not dependent on Greg loving me.  Assume he grows
up, moves to Colorado Springs, and never calls me, but he is close enough that I
hear from friends and see for myself that he is living a love-filled, contented life.
I would have a great sense of peace and happiness in my life.  This would be there regardless
if we had a relationship or not.  In fact if something had happened so that he could not
stand the sound of my name or to see me this feeling would still be there.  There would
be another feeling of intense sadness and loneliness that he was no longer a part of my 
life, but the feelings of peace and happiness for the love and joy in his life would still
be there.  If Greg and I continued to have a close relationship, this would just add 
more joy to my life.

ST>
ST> I have heard the argument of "It was a test for you."  Little seven year
ST> old girls who love Jesus do NOT need to be tested.  Well, I'm sorry, but
ST> if the test was to see if I would remain faithful, I guess I failed.
ST> If you kick your dog and it comes panting back to you, you are not good..
ST> the dog is silly. 

I too have heard this drivel but that is all it is.  I have never heard a theological
basis for this argument.  It is an easy gross distortion that adults have long used
to control children.  And as time has progressed it has been used to control adults
as well.  It is utter hogwash !!!!!*&^%#@&!  Note the exlamations and anger are aimed 
at the people who continue to abuse and manipulate children with this line of reasoning.

Using the analogy above, if God is Love, or if God is all loving, then what purpose is
there in 'testing' someone.  You would only test someone if you are in some way afraid
of them.  I don't make my son Gregory prove his love for me.  What is important is my
love for him - that is what will affect his quality of life as he grows.

ST> Please do not get angry, if you read past the SPOILER, you were warned...
ST> And please, argue rationally if you like!  I am willing to change my mind,
ST> but only for some pretty good logic...

I'm not writing this to change anybody's mind.  I'm writing this mostly for myself
cause it helps me to recenter on who I am and what is the basis of my hope in life.


My faith is the basis for hope in my life.  Hope in the present as well as hope in the
future.  Often times I can look at the `big picture' and see just how incredible my
life is, how full of love it is.  The miracle and glory and joyfulness of watching
Greg grow, of watching Shelly heal and blossom, of feeling and seeing that healing and
growth of love within myself.  THe joy of being able to look at myself every morning
in a mirror and seeing ME - when for over 10 years I didn't look in a mirror unless I
had to and I never saw ME when I did - I just saw that my tie was straight, or that my
hair didn't look the way I wanted it to ...
 I can see this big picture even when I feeling so incredibly sad and lonely and isolated
because my very dear friend has moved 1600 miles away & doesn't have email yet.  Right now
I have a bad cas of as Greg calls it "happy sad".  There is a deep feeling of joy from all
the love in my life, but there is also a deep sense of loss and sadness.

I think that if you take the Christian Bible as a whole and would extract the essential truth
from it, it is the history of people over thousands of years coming to the realization
that God is all loving, and that we were created with this love and that our lives will
be most fulfilled and joy-filled thru living a life of love. The bible is a large enough
collection of works that by isolating parts of it peole can find justification for many 
abuses within it.

I repeat Noel's final thought because it captures the essence of what motivates me to
explore and understand what I believe and why.

N> All in all: If your religion or belief system  helps you love yourself and others in a  
N> true healthy all encompassing way, keep it.  If it makes you hate, fear and judge others who 
N> are different, or encourges you to feel guilty, unhappy and self-loathing, hey,
N> chuck it out the window.  


Fare Well :)
Mike Stoughton
stote@den.mmc.com



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