HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: casseres@apple.com (David Casseres)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Spanish? names (was Re: Collecting Funny Mistranslations
Date: 21 Jan 93 18:06:23 GMT
Followup-To: alt.usage.english
Organization: Apple Computer Inc.

In article <C15HMy.F7C@acsu.buffalo.edu>, meachem@acsu.buffalo.edu (The
Meach) wrote:
> 
> In article <C1594G.FKy@techbook.com> dant@techbook.com (Dan Tilque) writes:
> >sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:
> >>dant@techbook.com (Dan Tilque) writes:
> >>>Well, it's not really the kind of name the chamber of commerce would
> >>>approve of but I suppose it's not too much worse than (using French
> >>>examples) Red Stick, Louisiana and Heart of Awl, Idaho.  Plus one that
> >>>amuses French school boys, Big Breast National Park.
> >>
> >>You forgot Rat's Mouth, Florida.  
> >
> >Which city is that?  And what's the source language?
> 
> Boca Raton [Spanish]

"Rat's Mouth" is a grave mistranslation.  I don't have a map of Florida
handy, but I'll bet anything Boca Raton is situated near an inlet to a bay
or lagoon, and "boca" means "inlet" as it does in many other Spanish
place-names.  Also I believe "raton" is "mouse," not "rat."  So Boca Raton
would be Mouse Inlet.

--

David Casseres
Exclaimer: Hey!
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: mmr@asgserver.canberra.edu.au (Micheal Rainford-Watson)
Subject: Re: piss-taking 
Organization: University of Canberra
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 22:31:27 GMT

In article <727524261snx@sloth.equinox.gen.nz> hairy@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Phil Anderson) writes:
>
>In article <GROVE.93Jan19172418@paddy.uk.tele.nokia.fi> 
>grove@uk.tele.nokia.fi writes:
>
>  >     I recently posted an article in another newsgroup where I used the phrase
>  > "taking the piss". It seems that N.Americans didn't understand this phrase,
>  > so can you lot out there tell me 
>  > 
>  >     1) is it only Britons who use it? Any Aussies care to comment?
>
>Kiwis certainly use it. Dunno about Aussies.
                                     ^^^^^^^
Blood oath! Specially when taking the piss out of Kiwis.

-- 
Micheal Rainford-Watson        _--_|\   E-Mail: mmr@asgserver.canberra.edu.au
Administrative Systems Group  /      \  Phone : +61 6 201 2397
University of Canberra        *_.--.*/  Mail  : PO Box 1 BELCONNEN ACT 2616
      I'd rather be in Perth  ^     v         Carn the Eagles! ('93)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: "Registrating" or "Registration"?
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Distribution: alt
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 11:06:18 GMT

In article <etxsvkl.727609846@garboa03> etxsvkl@garboa03.ericsson.se (Svante Kleist) writes:
:	imagine that something is registered somewhere, e.g.  a report is
:	registered at an office.
:
:	What do you then call that office?  "The registration office"
:	or "The registering office"? (I suspect the former being correct.)

It's confusing if one office sends something to the other office to
be registered.  Which one is the 'registering office'.  For that reason
I'd probably prefer 'registration office.'

G
From: neilg@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil MG Gall)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Words that are Opposites...
Date: 26 Jan 93 12:39:19 GMT
Organization: Department of Computing and Electrical Engineering, Heriot-Watt University, Edinburgh

In article <C17z6D.ILD@mach1.wlu.ca>, brea9430@mach1.wlu.ca (breadner ken u) writes:

** A "fat chance" and a "slim chance" are one and the same.

Would you not say "a fat chance" sarcastically, and "a slim chance" when
you were being more sincere ?

+-----------------------------------------------+------------------------+
|  Blessed are they who Go Around in Circles,   |     Neil M.G. Gall     |
|      for they shall be known as Wheels.       |   neilg@uk.ac.hw.cee   |
+-----------------------------------------------+------------------------+
From: epp@mala.bc.ca (Lorne Epp)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Canadian English
Date: 23 Jan 93 12:48:35 -0700
Organization: Malaspina College

In article <12478@sorley.ed.ac.uk>, iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski) writes:
> In article <C14CLD.MwG@ecf.toronto.edu> pelton@ecf.toronto.edu (PELTON MATTHEW ALAN) writes:
>>  Meter/metre...  Disk/disc...  Jesus.
> 
> Jesus/what?
> 

 Jesus/Jeezoose
 
 This pronunciation is used by many televangelists.  I have two theories
 on why:
 
 	1) They don't want it to sound like the popular swear word.
	
	2) They want to seem to know something that you don't (i.e.
	   the "correct" pronunciation of Jesus).
	   
	3) It sounds more holy that way, somehow.
	
Okay, so that's three theories.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lorne Epp                                               epp@mala.bc.ca
From: briand@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Brian D Diehm)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: a/an exceptions
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:59:48 GMT
Reply-To: briand@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

>OK, then how do you explain people who use "an" *and* aspirate the
>"h"? This is the only way I've heard "an" used in this context. The
>"h" is never elided, though it is pronounced quickly, gliding from "n"
>to "i" and nearly getting lost.

Fortunately, I don't have to explain this usage. I for one am not even
physically capable of doing it. At least not without stopping for a good
long pause between and ruining the meter of spoken speech.

When I try it, it comes out more like "uh no-tell" or other things that
remind one of Eliza Doolittle and the rain in Spain.

-Brian
--
Brian Diehm
Tektronix, Inc.                (503) 627-3437         briand@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM
P.O. Box 500, M/S 19-286
Beaverton, OR   97077
VSLARRY
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Words that are Opposites...
From: VSLARRY@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il (Larry Israel)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 20:44:31 GMT
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science

In article <C17z6D.ILD@mach1.wlu.ca>
brea9430@mach1.wlu.ca (breadner ken u) writes:

>
>Here's an idiosyncracy I have always found fascinating.
> ....
My favorite synonym/antonym pair - best and worst, when used as verbs.
To best someone in a fight is the same as to worst someone in a fight.


Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: harper@oracorp.com (Douglas Harper)
Subject: Fast-food nicknames (was Re: Canadian English)
Organization: ORA Corporation, Ithaca, New York
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:13:29 GMT

In article <1jh5r0INN946@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> au500@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Linda Zinn) writes:

>Am I the only American who's never used this "choke 'n puke" label for
>(I'm guessing) a fast-food restaurant? My Canadian fiance says it, too.
>Is it because we in the U.S. are more squeamish about the term "puke"?
>I know I am. :-)

I thought that something much like this, "gag and puke", was a US
regionalism -- I'm surprised to hear of it from Canada, unless there
are Steak and Shake restaurants up there.  That (now moribund, I
thought) chain had stores in Illinois, some surrounding states, and
Florida when I was in college many moons ago.  They were grease pits.
Anyone who'd ever been to one knew immediately which fast-food joint
you meant when you said "gag 'n puke".

"Bun and run" was the generic term for all fast-food hamburger joints.
There was also "bark and bubble" for Dog and Suds (Let's see whether
non-North Americans can figure out what they served there).  I can't
remember the others.  Maybe someone else can.  What was the nickname
for White Castle?  The burgers they served (small, extremely greasy,
and square) were called "sliders", but there was another name for the
White Castle itself.

Coincidentally enough, the Steak and Shake corporate motto exemplified
one of the strange uses of quotation marks that's been discussed in
a.u.e recently.  Here it is, original quotation marks and all:

	"In sight, it must be right."

You see, the short-order cooks fried your burger right in front of you,
thus demonstrating that all was well with the food...or at least that
the cooks aren't being exceptionally unhygienic.  This was quite the
innovation back in the Thirties when Stake and Shake's founder thought
it up.

-- 
Douglas Harper | harper@oracorp.com | +1 (607) 277-2020
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: ALI00BAW@UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU
Subject: Re: "Registrating" or "Registration"?
Organization: UNC Charlotte
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 00:04:52 GMT

In article <etxsvkl.727609846@garboa03>
etxsvkl@garboa03.ericsson.se (Svante Kleist) writes:
 
>
>        Hi everybody,
>
>        imagine that something is registered somewhere, e.g.  a report is
>        registered at an office.
>
>        What do you then call that office?  "The registration office"
>        or "The registering office"? (I suspect the former being correct.)
>
>
>
>        /Dumb Swede.
>
 
Try "the Registry [Office]"; or, as the person in charge of registering
people/things is a Registrar, try "Registrar's Office."
From: futor@llnl.gov (randy j futor)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: It's a concept ( was:  Re: Job: Teaching English in Japan ! )
Date: 25 Jan 93 15:22:05 GMT
Followup-To: alt.usage.english
Organization: CSo @ LLNL


 gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal) wrote:
> 
> Cost price my arse.

I stayed completely away from those College of Business types while in
school this last pass;  was this something one of them could've told me how
to do?  Hmmm??  ;-)

__
\/  -+-  randy  -+-  all generalizations are flawed  -+-  futor@llnl.gov
From: briand@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Brian D Diehm)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: between, among
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:26:32 GMT
Reply-To: briand@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <C1HMG2.MpE@acsu.buffalo.edu> meachem@acsu.buffalo.edu (The Meach) writes:
>In article <Mildred_Thill-240738131021@madadm02.educ.ualberta.ca> Mildred_Thill@ACT.EDUC.UALBERTA.CA (Mildred Thill) writes:
>>A few days ago, a parents group I belong to got into a bit of an arguement
>>about how to use beween and among. Some of us thought that between should
>>be used only when referring to two things, but not three or more. However
>>some said that in the sentence, "We want to improve communication among
>>teachers, parents and the members of the community", 'between' would work
>>just as well, with the proviso that it emphasized the two way communication
>>between each possible pair in the group.
>
>It's like deja vu all over again! ;-)
>
>Hopefully, [Hullo, Detlef!] someone is closer to a source than I am at 
>the moment. . .
>
>--jtm

After writing an in-house style guide (which covers "everything"; it took
over a year of background-level work), I boiled down several authoritative
sources into this ruling on between and among:

     An incorrect rule that is often cited is that "among" relates to
     more than two people or things, and "between" is limited to two.

     The difference between these two words is one of definite relation:
     if a definite relation is involved, use "between." If there is no
     explicit relationship stated, and when distribution is stressed,
     use "among."

     Examples:

     Connect a cable between the two signal terminals. We must negotiate
     between marketing, engineering, and manufacturing.

     Select among the input channels to the right of the display screen.
     The budget was distributed among marketing, engineering, and
     manufacturing.

     Do not use "amongst"; this is not a word.

So, authorities, did my research lead me astray? Does anyone have a formulation
that makes the difference more clear and intuitive?

-Brian

--
Brian Diehm
Tektronix, Inc.                (503) 627-3437         briand@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM
P.O. Box 500, M/S 19-286
Beaverton, OR   97077
From: glen@slate.cs.wisc.edu (Glen Ecklund)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Metric and Imperial Units (was Canadian English)
Date: 22 Jan 93 20:59:39 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences

wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:

>On the subject of imperial measures, why do Americans never seem to use stones
>to measure weight? At the level of human bodyweight stones are psychologically
>much easier to deal with than pounds. I know that I have to lose 3 stone or so,
>which seems attainable, whereas trying to lose 42 pounds would seem an awful
>lot. You also get decent numbers like 8 stone to the hundredweight and 144 to
>the ton.
>-- 

>Stephen Wilcox             |   For Sale: Posts in British Government. Suit
>wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk    |   outgoing American. Highest bids accepted.

Gee, we have 100 pounds in a hundredweight.  Seems decent to me.
Also, 2000 pounds in a ton.

I don't think you'll get very far in trying to make things more complicated
than they already are.


-- 
Every child shall be treated with complete respect.

Glen Ecklund     glen@cs.wisc.edu   (608) 262-1318 Office, 262-1204 Dept. Sec'y
Department of Computer Sciences        1210 W. Dayton St., Room 3355
University of Wisconsin, Madison       Madison, Wis. 53706  U.S.A.
From: rcosby@bcm.tmc.edu (Randy C. Cosby)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Is there an actor on the newsgroup?
Date: 22 Jan 1993 20:13:24 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: bcm.tmc.edu
Summary: Re: Is there an actor on the newsgroup?
	 Why Yes, there is!

In article <1993Jan13.191549.26071@cs.nott.ac.uk>, cizrc@unicorn.nott.ac.uk (Roy Candler) writes:
> An evening class in Eng Lit/Language is having a problem.  The course
> includes the play 'Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead' by Tom
> Stoppard, and we are puzzled by one of the stage directions, which is
> 'beat.'  None of us has any theatrical experience and we are, well,
> beat.  Can anyone shed some light on the meaning of the word in this
> context?  I am assuming it is some kind of standard instruction to the
> actors, such as 'pause'.
> In case any flamethrower invites me to RYFM (or RYFOED) . . . before
> posting this, I have checked the OED, Webster's, and many other works
> without success.
> Hope this is the appropriate newsgroup - well, it looks like an
> *alternative* use of a familiar word.
> 
> Reply by e-mail would be appreciated,
> to: cizrc@unicorn.nott.ac.uk (JANET)
> Roy Candler (No connection with the above-named seat of learning)
> 
> To beat, or not to beat.  That is the question.

Yes,

I was a theatre major....

Since the word "beat" was taken out of context, my guess is 
that it is used to cause a pause or break....

as in Shakespeare, for those who know it well, there is an
understood pause, or beat, midsentence, that goes hand in
hand with Iambic Pentameter.  

I think, perhaps, the author, or sometimes the director of the
show the script was actually used from, is just letting the actors
and/or the director know that there should be a slight, within
rhythm pause, in the action or words...

Hope this helps.


Coz

"For we have all but slumbered here (beat) Whilst all these visions
did appear..."  PUCK


Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: evan@hpl.hp.com (Evan Kirshenbaum)
Subject: Re: a/an exceptionsREAD/NEW
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 01:19:39 GMT
Reply-To: kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories

In article <1993Jan28.094628.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> ccjal@cc.newcastle.edu.au (John A Lambert) writes:
>I find the use of the word `zucchinis' even odder than the use of
>`MIP'.  Here a plural word is not recognised as such an an `s' is
>added to form what to me seems a double plural. To the majority of
>anglophones however the singular/plural pair is zucchini/zucchinis
>rather than zucchino/zucchini.

My dictionary (M/W NCD) agrees with the majority of anglophones
(although it gives "zucchini" as the first plural form): it doesn't
list "zucchino" as an English word.  (It does note that "zucchini"
comes from [It, pl. of _zucchino_, dim of _zucca_, gourd].)  

Strangely enough, the OED doesn't seem to have heard of "zucchini"
either in the body or in the supplements.

As a native speaker (American), I am fairly certain that I have never
heard "zucchino" as the singular.  Is it common in Australia?

Evan Kirshenbaum		       +------------------------------------
    HP Laboratories		       | The law of supply and demand tells us
    3500 Deer Creek Road, Building 26U | that when the price of something is
    Palo Alto, CA  94304	       | artificially set below market level,
				       | there will soon be none of that thing
    kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com	       | left--as you may have noticed the
    (415)857-7572		       | last time you tried to buy something
				       | for nothing.
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Presently
From: brian.wrigley@oosight.status.gen.nz (Brian Wrigley) 
Date: 21 Jan 93 17:01:00 GMT
Reply-To: brian.wrigley@oosight.status.gen.nz (Brian Wrigley) 
Distribution: world
Organization: OUT OF SIGHT BBS, Auckland, New Zealand, 64-9-298-3805

 > In article <5642@daily-planet.concordia.ca> mckay@alcor.concordia.ca 
 > (John McKay) writes:

 > >My interpretation of the word "presently" as in "I am coming 
 > >presently", based on our family usage, is that it implies "not 
 > >immediately" whereas others seem to use it as if it were to imply 
 > >"immediately" ...

gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes:

 > Well, in this part of America (and I think all over [America]), 
 > "presently"  means "at present" or "right now."  We are presently 
 > having a sale, etc.  Most Americans find the use of "presently"
 > meaning "shortly" quite quaint, and a lot of people would say 
 > "momentarily" for that, to add to the confusion.
 > "Momentarily" in the US can mean either occuring *in* a moment or 
 > occuring *for* a moment.

(JM) > ... - are these interpretations geographically determined?
   > >(I learnt English in England.)


I pause momentarily to think.  Presently, I compose a reply:

Looks like it, John!  I learnt English in New Zealand.  To me, 
"momentarily" means "FOR a short time"; "presently" means "AFTER a short 
time".

"We are presently having a sale" means "don't buy now, it'll be cheaper 
tomorrow"; and "we are momentarily having a sale" means "get in quick, 
before it goes back to full price".



--- WinQwk 2.0 #0
                                                                                            
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: evan@hpl.hp.com (Evan Kirshenbaum)
Subject: Re: Hi Fi etc
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:24:49 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories

In article <CANNAM.93Jan27103700@borodin.sc.ZIB-Berlin.de> Cannam@sc.ZIB-Berlin.de (Chris Cannam) writes:
>
>In article <C1H6t9.GI@demon.co.uk> gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham
>Toal) writes:
>
>   In article <1993Jan26.160452.5917@cs.hw.ac.uk> neilg@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil MG Gall) writes:
>   :	finance
>
>   Duh, you appear to be British - is /fei-nans/ a new trend here that I
>   missed?  finance has sounded like fiddlesticks! for as long as I remember.
>
>Uh?  To me finance is /fei-nans/, and always has been.  My dictionary
>agrees with me.  Or is this a bizarre joke?

Now I'm getting confused.

My dictionary lists the following pronunciations for "finance":
/f@ 'n&n(t)s/, /'faI n&n(t)s/, and /faI 'n&n(t)s/.  The most common
American pronunciation (which I use) is the second, generally without
the /t/.  I was under the impression that the British tend to use the
first.  /fei nans/ (or, more probably, /feI n&ns/) would have the
first syllable rhyme with "May" and "They".

Is this really what you meant, and (if so) where is it common?

Evan Kirshenbaum		       +------------------------------------
    HP Laboratories		       | K: Natives.  They may be hostile
    3500 Deer Creek Road, Building 26U | C: Well, we're all a little hostile
    Palo Alto, CA  94304	       |    now and then.  Some of us are able
				       |    to sublimate.  Others just can't
    kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com	       |    adjust.
    (415)857-7572
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: emcoop@bnr.ca (hume smith)
Subject: Re: Query: semiliterate quotation marks
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
	<EMCOOP.93Jan22173140@bcars148.bnr.ca> <C1B0uA.ABp@demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:07:02 GMT

In article <C1B0uA.ABp@demon.co.uk> gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:

   In article <EMCOOP.93Jan22173140@bcars148.bnr.ca> emcoop@bnr.ca (hume smith) writes:
   :you have.  short-term memory is all i have so far.  if there's such

   That was the point.  A full article on this subject was posted only three
   days ago.  Well, four now.  It's probably still in your spool area.  It's
   normal net practice to read a group for three or four days before first
   posting, just to make sure you have the right feel of the group and don't
   dive in with FAQs that are regularly answered.

if there was more substance in most group's debates, sure.  but in ploughing through
something like 200 articles, most of which are flames of some sort, it is easy to
miss the one little article that may have said anything useful.  and if i'd just
caught-up the group the first day, i'd've still missed it, wouldn't i?

i think it's also normal net practice to be somewhat forgiving.  (i wasn't particularly
forgiving myself, i suppose.  i'd just come out of war on a local group, and was still
touchy.)

   :desperate need for a FAQ in your opinion, you'd better throw some effort
   :into it yourself, instead of blasting the firat innocent trying to
   :improve his understanding of the language.

   If you'd read what I said you might possibly have concluded that someone
   is writing it as we speak... (that point was made last week too)

and if you'd read what i said, you'd realise i was saying you should be helping him.

   The meta-comment about apostrophes being for missing letters was almost
   right; the possessive 's is from a case of the language which no longer
   exists, a possessive by way of genitive I think.  So John's dog is
   from Johnes dog. Or something like that.

thank you.  that's the sort of thing i wanted to know.
--
Hume Smith                                Honour sick and davey cris-cross
hume.smith@acadiau.ca                     McTruloff sentimie
emcoop@bnr.ca                             A parsnip inner pair threes.
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: ens@ccu.umanitoba.ca ()
Subject: Re: Canadian English
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 13:45:49 GMT

In <EMCOOP.93Jan22124116@bcars148.bnr.ca> emcoop@bnr.ca (hume smith) writes:

>In article <1993Jan21.114734.1@wombat.newcastle.edu.au> eepjm@wombat.newcastle.edu.au (Peter Moylan) writes:

>   >   P.S.  Canadians think in Centrigrade.  I have to do a mental conversion
>   > every time I hear a Farenheit temperature.

>   Interesting ... Australians think in Celsius.  For some reason we
>   tend to think of "Centigrade" as an old-fashioned term.

>that's probably because centigrade is incorrect by SI.  the temperature
>unit is Celsius, capitalised.  the closest centigrade gets to
>recognition is as 1/100th of a German grade, an angle measure, 400 grades per
>full turn.  they're that funny third unit on your calculator, after
>degrees and radians.

>so australians are the only ones thinking correctly :-).

In this part of Canada (Manitoba) it's all Celsius (or F), never
centigrade.

Werner
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: evan@hpl.hp.com (Evan Kirshenbaum)
Subject: Re: Words that are Opposites...
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:10:35 GMT
Reply-To: kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories

In article <16B5F123B5.VSLARRY@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il> VSLARRY@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il (Larry Israel) writes:
>My favorite synonym/antonym pair - best and worst, when used as verbs.
>To best someone in a fight is the same as to worst someone in a fight.

Hmm, my dictionary lists "worst" as a verb in this sense, but I've
never heard (or heard of) it used that way.  In what dialects would it
be found (besides, obviously, Israeli English)?

Evan Kirshenbaum		       +------------------------------------
    HP Laboratories		       | It is error alone which needs the
    3500 Deer Creek Road, Building 26U | support of government.  Truth can
    Palo Alto, CA  94304	       | stand by itself.
				       |                   Thomas Jefferson
    kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com	       | 
    (415)857-7572
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english