From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: re: continuation on Cyprus
Date: 23 Dec 1992 21:30:16 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

cza@troy.cc.bellcore.com writes:

>Point is not to emulate an unwelcomed attitude.  There

Au Contraire, Mutlu/Arxid has plenty of supporters. Hence my coattails.

> are people in this net who also resort to vulgarity and get
> away with it (at least it seems so).  Your track record

I have yet to use vulgarity; since I keep a copy of each and every
message I send out, I'd appreciate pointing out any vulgarity.

>was very good to suspect that you would emulate that behavior
>too.  But hey!, your patronizing attitude in Besime's case
>made me think for a moment.  

I would not call it patronizing. Dream Teaming would be better. There
are things one can/should do and there are things one should not. It
seems to have worked. I was simply trying to keep the discussion civil.

>She has already conceded for
>her mistakes regarding your name.  After that point, trying to 
>provoke her further is not very intellectual in my opinion. 

After a short but to-the-point personal mail message she sent me
I decided to stop pursuing the subject. A day or two later she posted
her usual drivel, which seemed to indicate she did not understand
the process. I bet she does now. Anyhow, enough about her.

>How much one can tolerate reading "ethnic cleansing in Cyprus by Turks"
>in the eve of 28th anniversary of the bloody Xmas massacre which were
>committed against 203 Turkish people mostly women and children.  There 
>were 103 villages had to be evacuated to be bulldozed 28 years ago 
>(from yesterday).  How does this jibe with that "ethnic cleansing by 
>Turks in Cyprus"?  So, there is a line to be drawn.

Both sides commited atrocities; Could you remind me who was using 
NAPALM? Who had the most refugees? Who had the most property losses?
casualties? Who has the most UN resolutions against? (not that it 
matters...) We can concentrate on one or two episodes and see things
our way. Yet the global picture sinks in the Ege...

>So why GC demand for someone else to negotiate with.  He (denktash)
>is  a legitimate TRNC leader.
       ^^^^^^^^^^
That would be one of my contentions, though not a serious one. The entire
subject started after some TRNC-ians pointed out that Denktash is elected
with 80% majorities for the last 20 years or so; we pointed out that in
ANY democratic system this is impossible, and challenged the figures due
to settlers voting. 

Just out of curiosity, do Russian or other origin Jews get to vote in
Israel? If anyone knows I'd appreciate it.

>Why there should be an oposition if he demands what is
>good for TRNC.  I hope you see the anology after hearing
>what you said here.  Arafat has no oposition and he is not a true 
>representative of Palestinians.  This is a good tactic to
>just blunder the minds in the West.

You *still* don't get it, Genkiz. STILL don't get it. No democratic
system can survive if the same guy keeps getting elected for ever with
such majorities. As to Arafat, I *still* don't see the analogy. 

>>It would thus be easy to calculate the amount of $$$ lost to the South
>>and North, and appropriate renumeration given to BOTH sides. Since the
>                            %%%%%%%%%%%%
>>governments of Greece and Turkiye would also be involved, they could
>>contribute some of their $$$ as well.
>
>Remuneration= "pay" right?

Yup. 

>Are you serious or just uzo is talking momentarily 8-)?   

I am always serious except when dealing with Arxid. If I were not 
serious I would not have wasted so much time on the subject.

>You 
>must be the "bachelor" in popular saying that goes "divorsing wife is 
>so easy to a bachelor."  

Perhaps an outsider's view may be more beneficial compared to the polarized
views of the two sides. I am neutral in this discussion. Are you?

> Well. I misunderstood your term of "equitable 
>solution" all along then.   If this was your equtable solution, let 
>Denktash know it immediately.  He would start the "sirtaki" at the 
>moment that he hears this.  

Agreeing to a settlement on paper is easy. Implementing it in practice
is not. And that's what the whole problem is. Read below:

>Rest assured that he would be more than 
>heppy to make you an honorary citizen of TRNC.  

Would I qualify for a cut-rate settler or two to help with the lawn,
Sophia-Yasemin's day care, and cooking?

>He is already willing 
>to give up 6% of the land, you know.  This would be a bonus for such 
>understanding gesture.  

Land by itself is meaningless.  I'm talking ASSETS. I.E. 1,200 TC homes
in the south exchanged for (similar) GC 1,200 homes in the north, 
a bakery in the south exchanged for one in the north, etc. Finally,
whatever can not be exchanged/accounted for is paid up by Greece/Turkiye
and TRNC/GreekCyprus. As I indicated below, since all sides got the
island into this, all sides get to bail it out.

I would not agree to any discussion such as "GC's had the wealth because
they oppressed us, hence we get to keep it to correct the injustice". This
is exactly what I am opposed to, i.e. legitimizing nation-level armed
robbery. Think back of my LA Riot analogy.

>I bet that you would not find a single taker 
>from the GC's for this deal.  

That's not for you (or me) to judge. There are plenty of TC's and GC's
on the net. How about asking them? If I were GC or TC, sure, I'd be
pissed to high heaven for having lost my home or business but I
would be receptive to renumeration after all. It would show that both
sides can be trusted to iron this out.

>Otherwise, we would not be here 
>discussing this issue.  Even Denktash is not dreaming to get such a 
>deal from GCs.  

But we are. I'd really like to hear the opinion of TC's and GC's on this.
Before any flames start flying, my rationale is that this proposal 
beats turning Cyprus into Lebanon, the financial rights of both sides
are dealt with, and from now on either side gets to be left ALONE.

Also included in the picture are removal of the majority of the Turkish
Army from the island (remember one of my previous articles on why),
and that both sides get to keep enough weapons for defense only. Since
neither side produces weapons, monitoring this thru UN embargo would
also be trivial.

The settler issue must be dealt with, as, the more settlers arrive,
the more difficult the problem becomes. Property and asset accounting
will be done without counting settlers. 

Finally, a finite timetable must be set and used. 

If this sounds too good to be true, it probably is. I am quite confident
that the Turkish and/or the TRNC side will refuse the deal simply
because accepting it would mean accepting that they had to resort to
nation-level armed robbery, regardless of the reason.

>Cheers! 

>C. AKgun

Spiros
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek