From: trivedi@curie.uchicago.edu (Anil Trivedi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Reply To Mark Towfiq
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:36:02 GMT
Organization: Enrico Fermi Institute, University of Chicago

Dear Mark,

I first came across your name when you posted to us in SCI the sad news
about Mr Samandari's execution in Iran. I have also read, profitably, 
a few of your other postings. I am therefore less than delighted that 
my first direct communication to you should be this. But, we all bow
to God's will, don't we? :-)

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 > Anil, it seems as though you would paint yourself as knowing more
 > than Arindam about the Baha'i Faith. 

More than Arindam, I just might. But if so, it would be no spectaculor
achievement, for I have been curious about the Bahai faith for over
ten years, while he was making very elementary inquiries (for example,
the permissibility of pre-marital sex) only a few months ago.

Nor would it be meaningful. If it was the information or the ability
to quote text that mattered most in religion, then CD-ROMs and Xerox
machines would be the epitome of spiritual accomplishment. So in this
respect your focus disappoints me.

In the end, it is not what anyone knows but how he lives his beliefs.
Frankly, Arindam's tendency to brand other people's religious beliefs
as inadequate/outdated/etc. has not been the most flattering testimonial
to whoever or whatever has been influencing him.

I only have a respectful curiosity about the Bahai faith. I am not making 
any major life-decisions based on my understanding of it. Arindam is. So
my understanding is not the issue. His is. I asked him to reconsider if 
it is firm enough, and to seek guidance, from other Bahais, if it is not. 
I'll stand by that.

 > Yet while claiming to know more
 > about the Baha'i teachings than Arindam, you mistakenly refer to the
 > religion of Baha'u'llah as "Bahaism".  

Why this cheap shot?! What mistake? Leaving out "'" or using an "ism"
construction? When original names are in other languages, anything we
do with the Latin alphabet or English words is an  attempt at
communicating. If you understood what I meant, then mine succeeded. 

You are a moderator of a newsgroup called not soc.religion.Baha'i, 
but soc.religion.bahai. Have I ever complained ?!

Bahai literature has references to many "isms" like Hinduism, Buddhism,
etc. For each individual usage, a more authentic word, with proper accent
marks to indicate pronunciation, could be found. But is that the point
of religious discussion?  Do you personally say Buddhism, or "the teachings
of Buddha" (no stress on "a", as you know). By purist standards, EVERY ONE
of the Bahai documentaries I have seen VERY BADLY mispronounces  "Krishna". 
But so what? With my unrefined approach to terminology and alphabet,
I usually focus on the idea if I have gotten it.

Common English uses single-word nouns like Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism,
Sikhism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Zorastianism, etc. Such terms,
inadequate though each is, are commonly used, including in the Bahai 
literature. 
So don't just complain, make a suggestion:  what single-word noun
would you prefer to denote what I called "Bahaism"?

 > Could you please clarify what exactly you do know about the Baha'i..

I chose my words (to Arindam) carefully. I shall repeat them for your
inspection in a moment. Other than that, this does not seem to be a
good time for me to take a test, or to start writing my autobiography. 
How much do you know about Hinduism? Just curious. :-)

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This whole discussion has two aspects. First, Arindam has been saying
a few things which, either in substance or style, have caused others
some pain. He will admit to that. It was needless. My entire response
to him on this score has consisted of ONE PARAGRAPH (addressed to him):

  No true spiritual quest need give pain to others. Here is a minor
  suggestion you can consider: Since you have decided to leave Hinduism,
  please do so with grace and decency. You will find that unlike other
  religions, Hindus won't condemn you to die or anything; in fact, most
  of them will wish you VERY WELL in your spiritual quest. Then why tell 
  them how unsuited their religion is to their needs, give them equations
  like  "Bahai = Hindu + something more",  or tell them that their
  religion is like an old well while yours is a high-tech pump? Such 
  behavior has very little to do with spiritual quest. If you have 
  gone to a new religion, be like a beacon for it, don't behave like
  insurance-salesmen. [Your "present policy" is never adequate.]

I will stand by that sentiment and advice. 

Hindus have welcomed Bahais with open arms: compare that with Israel or
with any Muslim country from Morocco to Indonesia. Is it not some measure
of spiritual depth to be open to outside influences after many from have
done you grave harm (again, compare this with Israel). Do Hindus really
deserve to be told how outdated their spiritual base is?  By someone who
is still learning the basics of his new faith? My advice to Arindam was 
and remains:  learn and think for a while; you can preach later.
(Hopefully, by then he would also have learned how to talk about others's
religious beliefs.)

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The second aspect is Arindam's announcement that he was quitting 
the "pretense" of grad school. 

 > Only activities I can do now is to teach the children and study and 
 > make commentaries on the various scriptures...

 > How Bahais work...Teach people who are illiterate or down-trodden 
 > and in the process do something greater...

Many of his "debating friends" on the net were concerned. 

Personally, I have never noticed any great tendency on part of the
Bahais to "quit the pretense", "ONLY" teach children and make religious
commentary, or only deal with "the down-trodden". So I tried to tell
him why he should reconsider, even seek other opinions, if he thought
that this was "the Bahai thing" to do.

In retrospect, I should not have quoted anyone anonymously unless I was
prepared to get them to back it up, but this was not a seminar and the
thing on my mind was to make Arindam understand that I had not just 
dreamed this up. Anyway, I told him that it was my understanding

  that the Bahai movement has settled on a "top down" approach to social 
  change: through LEADERS and INSTITUTIONS. It is to go to and affect
  the centers of power directly. Not to challenge the contemporary
  mainstream society (as in revolutions), nor to try to bypass it (the
  "down-trodden" route), but to succeed IN it, even obeying its occasional
  unjust dictates, to place yourself in a position to affect change.

I'll stand by that as being *my* understanding as well as judgment.

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However, I have no interest in debating religious or social issues.
In the present thread, my only interest is Arindam's welfare.

Words are cheap. It is the real life decisions that matter. So why
don't we take YOURSELF as an example at hand? :-)

You seem to be actively engaged in professional life, working for a
computer company. I assume that you are in no great rush to quit this
"pretense", do nothing but write religious commentary, and move to a
Native reservation. Even so, perhaps you don't exactly feel yourself
to have been a traitor to the Bahai credo?

Let me be very frank. I suspect that Arindam is at present a confused
boy. Another one I knew, also a Bahai, recently committed suicide.
So yes, I am concerned.  For all I know, Arindam may be close to a
"professional suicide" too.

So, please, instead of engaging in quips about my admittedly sloppy
spelling and punctuation, and instead of offering me DATA which I can
either recite to you myself or get from any encyclopedia (like how many
Houses Of Worship are there and in which city), why don't you consider
trying to stabilize Arindam in what may well be his moment of weakness?
After all, the VERY LEAST you can do is to stand by the values and 
judgments by which you are living YOUR life. 

--Anil

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