From: lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: **** A1200 Info **** (Part I)
Date: 7 Nov 92 23:06:44 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Natuerlich! (wallmann@backus.pu.informatik.th-darmstadt.de) wrote:
> In article <1992Nov5.154148.5424@klaava.Helsinki.FI> lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad) writes:
> >HAM is as real graphics mode and I can compare it to any other
> >graphics mode if I wish.

> Of course you can. You may also compare cars to ships. No one will mind. 

Of course, but you I would ot call the difference between HAM and a
'normal' mode to be quite as radical as the difference between ships
and cars.

> >There is also one very real limitation in 16-bit truecolor-modes in
> >Falcon - they're dog-slow (in the usefull modes). 

> Question is how limiting is it ? Not as limiting as you hope it to be.

I don't have to hope - I know. 1st, 640*200 (240?) and 640*400 modes
eat almost half of the bus time, and second, one has to move more data
than with a 8 bit mode.

> >If 'animation' now means shoot 'em up's and other games, then you're
> >right, however the truecolor modes in Falcon aren't really better
> >because of the lack of speed in those modes.

> When the first truecolor actiongame comes out you'll see how much worth

It's not when, it's IF...

> that statement was. In the lowrez mode there should be -ample- processor
> speed left. 

Something like 80-85% of the speed of burstless 68030 is left -
however one also has to move twice as much data than on 8-bit modes.

> >> 	Falcon I can do it in a window, in arguably not bombastic but still 
> >> 	AA-bashing 640x200x65536 colors.
> >
> >This 640x200x64k colors dies in front of 1450x566xHAM8 even as the
> >latter is interlaced.
> As soon as it is interlaced it's already useless. The 1450 sound like

Oh? I watch TV every day and don't find it useless - also those
cable-TV-companies don't think that the interlaced modes are useless,
neither do I if I need or want to record some animations or something
to video.

> overscan eh ? Anyway we had the HAM discussion already.

What about overscan? The system fully supports is - even I am
currently using overscanned screen on this terminal program - also the
WorkBench that is on another screen uses overscan.

> Figure vertical rez /2 for non-interlace and we are down to (with no
> overscan 1280/200. Figure one byte per pixel only for HAM whereas TrueColor

Why do you think that interlaced modes are useless - with enough
colors and antialiasing you don't see it. Also why don't you use the
overscan figures of maximum resolutions? Or correct maximums for non
overscanned resolutions (maximum is 1280*512 w/o overscan).

> has 2 bytes you get 640/200. In terms of Mbytes/s AA is app. the same as
> the Falcon030, whereas the Falcon chipset has (for future models like
> the 040) still 'breathing space' as can be shown by using OverScans

Someone executed a test on a Falcon in different
resolution-color-combinations - the highest bandwidth modes already
waste allmost 50% of the bus, having a larger resolution will make
this even worse.

> Screenblaster, that raises the internal pixel frequency of the Falcon

Oh? And then? I could buy myself a EGS-graphics card if I had a
A2000...

> >> 	pretty quick, whereas IDE will hopefully die.
> >
> >DO you honestly think that all those dozens of PC-cloners will move to
> >dramatically more expensive SCSI-II when there is much cheaper IDE
> >available when 95% of users don't know or care what advantages each
> >has over the other.

> Not in a matter of months. But the current PC architecure is a dead end.
> A 486 on a AT-bus ?? Har har!

Why do you laugh to the fact that most 486's only have ISA-bus (I thik
you mean thi) and not a 32 bit EISA-expansion bus when your beloved
Falcon has at least as cripled expansion bus..
	(btw, you don't seem to know that the programs are of course
__not__ executed via this bus...)
	Why don't you tell me why the current PC-architecture are
dead? And mainly why IDE-drives will die?

Anyhow, if you want to see something that is dead, then buy a Falcon
when it starts shipping - I'm willing to bet that people still are
happily buying IDE-drives when Atari stops making Falcons (if it ever
starts making them...) or dies.

> >You don't have an Amiga, that if probably why you can't use a HAM
> >window. One can of course use HAM-windows - the only problem is that
> >one should not overlap windows.

> I'll concede on this, although I can't quite imagine it. Anyway windows
> that don't overlap are not 'real' windows.

Of course they are - Windows 1.0 (or somehting earlier) didn't have
overlapping windows. Anyhow, windows in HAM-screen can be moved,
resized etc. as long as they don't overlap each other as then there
will be a possibility that some colors on some areas will not be correct.

> >> Trivia note:
> >> 	The Atari TT has a HAM mode.
> 
> >Another:
> 
> >I don't think so.

> Computers are not a matter of religious beliefs (although the Amiga scene
> sometimes makes you think otherwise). As much as you wish, it's not going
> to go away.

Of course computers are matter of religious beliefs...:)

And I admid that I have no idea weather or not TT has a HAM mode and
what kind of such mode it is and don't really care. Just wanted to
provocate you a bit.

> P.S. Jarkko before seeing 'red' and replying, read the next funfilled
>      post too.

I'm not a bull, I don't go crazy when I see red...:-)
(yes, I know what you meant, but...)

And a word of advice: please put thiskind of PS-message to the top of
the article - I only read 70% of this article before writing a reply,
so I saw this line about a mnute ago, well after writing most of the
message.

-- 
Jarkko Lindblad         | Those people who tell you not to
lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi |   take chances
------------------------| they are all missing on what life is about
This space if for sale  |                        - Metallica