HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 12:17:20 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: RE:abortion
              10 Apr 1992 11:29:54 CST from
              <CXKJP%UTXDP.bitnet@UTXVM.CC.UTEXAS.EDU>

Kim:
I'm sorry to inform you of this, Kim, but the Planned Parenthood you speak
of is very unusual.  Most PP's around the country, because they have such
a high volume of clientele, are largely disinterested in clients whose
preferred pregnancy outcome is not abortion.  Even my feminist friends
admit that "counseling" in PP clinics for anything other than getting
through the abortion (and it does _not_ include any advice on getting
over it, except to say that they may feel "slightly depressed" for
"a little while) is woefully inadequate.  That is because PP is a business.
It is the largest single abortion provider in the United States, and
it makes a mint doing it.  It would not be efficient for them to concern
themselves with other options.  Furthermore, follow-up care is almost never
available (admittedly it would be difficult to do so, when so many people
use false names in the first place), and all records are completely sealed.
I am sorry if you were intimidated by the Crisis Preganancy Center.  However,
please keep in mind that the aim of Planned Parenthood is to sell an abortion,
and the aim of a CPC is to save the baby's life.
                                               Love and Peace INC,
                                                                  ---Kerry
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 10:21:22 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: ABORTION:Spec. legal

Bernice:
  He has forgiven them.  May they accept this forgiveness and walk humbly
before Him in time.
                   Love INC,
                            ---Kerry
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 20:28:31 EST
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Water Baptism
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU
              at Apr 13, 92 6:27 am

>
>Ian,  Out of curiosity, who thinks that only an ordained minister or
>priest can baptize?  The Catholic Church doesn't think so.
>
>Marty Helgesen
>

Marty,

I think the problem may be more of a traditionalist protestant problem then.
I know the mere thought of lay people or common pew warmers like me
baptising people sends some people into a frenzy!



*****************************************************************************
Ian Williams          			Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems         			Phone   : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia
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Original_To:  CHRISTIA
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 09:23:00 CST
From:         GUILLERMO RODRIGUEZ HERNANDEZ <A16905@ITESO.BITNET>
Subject:      Chrisitans and Not Christians

Attila,

Wellcome to CHRISTIA, hope you find here a new way to fellowship with brothers
of many denominations, cultures, ages and beliefs.

Personally, i would take things easy, let the Lord take the choise, ask Him !
I would fight against everything if i really love her, i would pray for her,
this prayers are very powerful and, well i see some trouble in this relationhip
but nothing that can not be resolved with true love.

Shalom,
Memo.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 18:05:17 CST
From:         "William M. Jordan" <IF20159@LATECH.BITNET>
Subject:      A more encouraging CHRISTIA

I have grown concerned over the past few days that too many messages
have become judgmental and not enough of them are encouraging.  I know
I am also guilty of this, for I have sent some rather blunt posts
concerning my views on abortion.  In order to try to be more
encouraging, I would like to share the following events from one
of my classes.
It appears from reading the posts of others, that most of us are
either students, staff, or faculty at academic institutions.  As
several of you have pointed out, sometimes you receive flak over
your Christian beliefs in classes.  As an engineering professor,
I frequently face the opposite problem: there is frequently no
Christian perspective available on many of my lecture topics.  For
example, I cannot in good conscience say there is a particularly
Christian way to calculate the average molecular weight of a
polymer.
The approach of Easter this weekend did give me a chance to make a
Christian comment in class.  This quarter I have a large (77 student)
class in non-metallic materials.  There is typically one homework
assignment every class day.  At the end of class today, I announced
there would be no homework over this weekend.  I said I believed
Easter weekend was the most important weeekend of the year.  I
said I had no  intention of doing engineering work on Easter, and
I thought that there was no need for students to do work on this
weekend either.
As might be expected, the students were glad to receive this
announcement.  I do not think that decreasing the number of
homework assignments by one will have any effect at all on what
a student will learn in the class.  This is a way that allows me
to make a Christian statement in an engineering class in a way that
would not be likely to upset anyone.  I had two students approach
me after class to ask more questions about what why I had done
what I had done.
Those of you who are faculty might want to try this.  If you are
a student (and are very brave) you might want to suggest this to
one of your professors.

In Christ, Bill

William M. Jordan            Voice       (318) 257-4304
Mechanical & Industrial      FAX         (318) 257-2562
     Engineering Dept.       Bitnet      IF20159@latech.bitnet
Louisiana Tech University    Internet    jordan@engr.latech.edu
Ruston, LA 71272
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 08:09:46 CDT
From:         Roy Jacobsen <NU021927@NDSUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Prayer request for myself

Dear family in Christ,
     I don't have time to go into much detail right now,
but I covet your prayers for the next few days.  (I'll try
to fill you in as time permits.)  I'm particularly concerned
about my job situation and I need to discern God's will in
this matter.
     Thanks.

ttfn

Roy M. Jacobsen                | "Progress does not create
North Dakota State University  |            victims."
Voice: 701-237-8641            |              -Marty Strange
BITNET: NU021927@NDSUVM1       |
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 10:25:42 EST
From:         John Ross <ROSSJB@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Pascal's conversion

Thank you for that account, Kerry.  I enjoyed it.

John
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 14:08:27 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Prayer Request

To All:

Please pray for my best friend's ex-girlfriend.  She is pregnant and
afraid to tell her parents or her church.  She is a strong Christian
who made a mistake.  Her friends are counseling her to have an abortion,
and the appointment has already been made for Monday.  My friend is
the only person she can talk to (and even that is long-distance), and
he feels insufficient to counsel her.  He has advised her to talk to
his mother, who is a strong and loving Christian, and then to talk to
the people in her church who work with crisis pregnancy.  Please pray
for everyone involved, as well as for our relationship to each other,
that God will use us all to serve Him and demonstrate His love for
His children.  Thank you.
                          Love INC,
                                   ---Kerry
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 22:34:00 EDT
From:         Jeff Shirton <SHIRTON@MCMASTER.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Spiritual and physical death

The list minor asks:

>    I have a question:
>    When Adam and Eve sinned, they died a spiritual death.  Was
>    physical death a direct result of the Fall too?  Or were they
>    eventually gonna die anyways?

Good question.  Let me first qualify that I haven't studied or thought
about this in detail, and I look forward to the responses of others on
this question.  But here's my  0.03 $CAN (0.02 $US):

I found it interesting that of all the trees in the garden of Eden, only
two were named:  The tree of life, and the tree of knowledge of good & evil.
Since the only fruit (BTW, _no_ apples are mentioned in Genesis!!! :-)
that Adam & Eve were forbidden to eat was from the tree of knowledge of G&E,
so it can be safely assumed that they could (and did) eat from the tree of
life.

It seems straightforward (maybe too much so?) to assume that it was the
tree of life that prevented them from physical death, at least that's what
I've always assumed.

Actually, here it is.  Once Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit, and
were cursed, God cast them out of Eden, saying:

        "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and
         evil.  He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and
         take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
         So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden...
                                                -- Gen. 3:22,23 (NIV)

It sounds to me like God was specifically trying to keep them from the
tree of life.

God bless,
Jeff Shirton                         "Jesus is Messiah's 'Handel'  "
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 17 Apr 1992 02:35:56 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      For Good Friday
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET, BSTUDY-L@UTARLVM1.BITNET,
              IVCF-L@UBVM.BITNET

     FOR GOOD FRIDAY

   READING: Isaiah 52:13-53:12
    ("He was wounded for our transgressions....  With his stripes
   we are healed.")

   PSALM 22:1-21
    ("My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? ... they pierced
   my hands and my feet.... They parted my garments among them,
   and cast lots for my clothing.")

   EPISTLE: Hebrews 10:1-25
    (The sacrifices commanded in the Law of Moses were only a hint
   of the sacrifice of Christ, who is both the Eternal Hig Priest
   and the Spotless Offering.)

   GOSPEL: John 18:1-19:37
    (The Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ as narrated by John,
   beginning with the arrest in Gethsemane, continuing with the
   hearings before Annas and Caiaphas, the trial before Pilate,
   the Crucifixion, and ending with the account of His Death.)

     Almighty God, we beseech thee graciously to behold this thy
family, for which our Lord Jesus Christ was contented to be
betrayed, and given up into the hands of wicked men, and to suffer
death upon the cross; who now liveth and reigneth with thee and the
Holy Ghost ever, one God, world without end.

     Almighty and everlasting God, by whose Spirit the whole body of
the Church is governed and sanctified; Receive our supplications and
prayers, which we offer before thee for all estates of men in thy
holy Church, that every member of the same, in his vocation and
ministry, may truly and godly serve thee; through our Lord and
Savior Jesus Christ.

     O merciful God, who hast made all men, and hatest nothing that
thou hast made, nor desirest the death of a sinner, but rather that
he should be converted and live; Have mercy upon all who know thee
not as thou art revealed in the gospel of thy Son. Take from them
all ignorance, hardness of heart, and contempt of thy Word; and so
fetch them home, blessed Lord, to thy fold, that they may be made
one flock under one Shepherd, Jesus Christ our Lord, who liveth and
reigneth with thee and the Holy Spirit, one God, world without end.
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Original_To:  BITNET%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 10:35:00 CST
From:         GUILLERMO RODRIGUEZ HERNANDEZ <A16905@ITESO.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: on being filled with the spirit

Hi Jeff (and all),

I think that we are continiously being filld with the Spirit, because we need
to, we sin, fact, and with our sins we leave the spiritual life that God gives
to us, so we need to be filled again, Jesus said about the believers that from
our soul will flow rivers of Water of Life (Holy Spirit), well a river is
always flowing, the water is never the same, as we receive the Spirit we are
supposed to give it to our brothers through wittnessing and fellowship, if
we retain the Spirit for us, we stop the flow of the river and the living
water gets rotten.

Well my $0.02

Shalom,

Memo.

PS Still NOMAIL
PPS I will sign with a space between 'Shalom' and 'Memo' because some people
    (not on this list) think that 'Shalom' is part of my name :-))
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 08:21:43 EDT
From:         Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Adolescent sexuality

Somewhere there is scripture about men "not spilling their seed upon the
ground"  -----forgive me if the quote is misquoted!
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 17:21:05 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Yoga & Medicine
              7 Apr 1992 16:23:20 GMT from <pmoloney@MATHS.TCD.IE>

Paul:

Please read the book "Catholics and the New Age," which is by Mitch Pacwa,
SJ.  He is a Catholic professor at Loyola, and is eminently qualified to
write on this subject.  Also, please remember that worship of pagan
gods does not require intention, only performance.  That is why such
things as Ouija boards, enneagrams, horoscopes and so on present a genuine
spiritual danger, no matter how lightly those who "play" with them may
take their participation.  If you still have doubts after due consideration
of the situation in the Catholic church (which, I rush to add, is shared
by several segments of the charismatic, pentecostal, and other Protestant
churches--the practice is the same, whatever theology it resides in), write
again and we can discuss it.  Thanks for the question.
                                                      Love INC,
                                                               ---Kerry
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 18:34:30 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Chinese terminologies

Vicky:


Amen, amen, amen!  (And then some.)
                                   Love INC,
                                            ---Kerry
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 10:33:01 EST
From:         John Ross <ROSSJB@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Reading Mormon

LDS peoples:

I am trying to read the Book of Mormon.  Part of me feels guilty for
reading it before I finish reading the Bible, but I am rather curious
to find out what it says.  Is there a way I can keep track of all the
different names and places?  I find it hard enough to keep track of the
names in the Bible, and I've been exposed to those for years!

John
From: se@comp.lancs.ac.uk (Steve Elliott)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Adolescent sexuality
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:46:25 GMT
Organization: Department of Computing at Lancaster University, UK.

In article <CHRISTIA%92040705224641@ASUACAD.BITNET> U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET (Bernice Tennant) writes:
>Somewhere there is scripture about men "not spilling their seed upon the
>ground"  -----forgive me if the quote is misquoted!

I think it is very dangerous for us to quote half a verse and make a 
decision based on that. I could counter that verse by saying that
it's alright if it's caught in a tissue - at least it hasn't hit the ground.
Sorry, that's what happens when you take things literally.

The story was that the man's brother had died, leaving a widow. According
to the law of the time, he was expected to have intercourse with the
widow so she would have a son. The man didn't, he masturbated and
"spilled his seed on the ground".
-- 
se@uk.ac.lancs.comp
Department of Computing, Engineering Building, 
University of Lancaster, Bailrigg, Lancaster, LA1 4YR, UK
PHONE: +44 524 65201 ext 3783.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 09:57:54 EDT
From:         Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Truth

Darryl,

Your position, to which I was responding, was:

    "Let me restate my argument for anyone who missed it.  I want
     no misunderstandings here.  When your Truth is different from
     another's Truth, you have three choices:
     1) accept their Truth as being valid
     2) try to change their Truth, but (to be fair) giving them a
        chance to change YOUR Truth, and expecting high resistance
        from the nonbeliever
     3) kill them, either quickly, or slowly and horribly."

This position clearly refers to incompatible truths.  The statements
"I am a Protestant" and "You are a Catholic" are not incompatible
because they refer to different people.  Similarly, the statements "I
am a Catholic" and "I am a librarian" are both true.  They are not
incompatible because one refers to my faith and the other to my
profession.

Now you say, "By your arguments, one of the above MUST be false, as
what is true for me MUST be true for you, and vice versa." There is a
difference between saying, "What is true FOR you must be true FOR
me," and saying, "What is true ABOUT you must be true ABOUT me."

Using the word "valid" to mean internally consistent is fine when
talking about syllogisms.  However, I think using it that way in
other contexts is misleading because so many people use the word
"valid" so loosely.  Someone who thinks himself to be Napoleon may
have an internally consistent belief system. The fact that he is
confined in an asylum does not prove that he is not Napoleon because
the real Napoleon was imprisoned on Elba and St. Helena.

Marty Helgesen
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 17 Apr 1992 12:08:44 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Re>Anaesthetics and Eve
              17 Apr 1992 11:54:03 EDT from <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>

Leo:

I don't think Christian Science should count because the entire religion
is predicated on the notion that pain is an illusion, and the request is
for a cleric that argues for natural childbirth on the grounds that
women should _experience_ pain.

Sorry, but I don't think you've won.
                                    Love INC,
                                             ---Kerry
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 12:41:48 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Ankerberg posts
              16 Apr 1992 07:42:45 EDT from <MKLINE%VDH.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>

Michael:

I am very interested in the Ankerberg postings.  I hope you will continue
them.  If you don't want to post them to the general list, please mail to
me personally, if you don't mind.
                                 ---Kerry
                                    KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 10:24:16 EDT
From:         Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Innocent Suffering (Was: No Subject)
              BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU

Let us all pray for Brenda's sister.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 06:23:08 EDT
From:         MKLINE%VDH.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Re: Abortion / Two different questions ...

Subject: Re: Abortion / Two different questions ...

      "Isn't this a reverse of the separation of church and state?"

MAKS> The separation of church and state is in the Russian constitution,
      not ours. Saying there should be no abortion is not the same as
      saying everyone has to now be Catholic.

      Funny thing is that Russia is now trying to get all the religion they
      can the US wants to follow after a failing Russia.


Maks
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 15:38:00 CST
From:         "Darryl (The Other Brother) Johnson" <DJOHNSON@TCUCVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Safe Sex #2

M. Kline quotes Robert Redfield:
    And the truth is, it angers me. Condoms are not safe, they're
dangerous. Sex with a condom with an infected person is not protected.
It's very unprotected. It's very, very dangerous.
----------------------------------------------------------------
First of all, Safe Sex #1 & #2 are just LOADED with facts that
simply aren't true and logical inconsistencies.  However, due to
the sheer NUMBER of them, I am reluctant to answer them all.
I would recommend interested parties read "The Myth of Heterosexual
AIDS" by Michael Fumento.  If you have specific questions, you can
Email them to me, and I might be able to answer them, in the format
"So and so said this, is this true or false, why or why not?"

But as to the above "It's very, very dangerous":
More heterosexuals were killed by their electric garage door
openers than were killed by tertiary transmission of AIDS (from
one low-risk-group heterosexual to another) last year.

The probability of getting AIDS if you sleep with someone you
KNOW has AIDS, without any protection, is 1 in 500.  So you would
have to sleep with that person 250 times (!) to reach 50/50 odds.

WITH protection AND the fact that the person is almost certainly
NOT infected (less than 1% chance), we approach Lotto odds.
AIDS is the number 11 killer in this country.  Heart disease
takes many more, often due to obesity.  How many John Ankerburg
shows have been dedicated to the deadly sin of gluttony?

One wonders what the failure rate is for diet sodas.

Darryl at TCU
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Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 14:14:02 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      for Monday 13 April 1992
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET, BSTUDY-L@UTARLVM1.BITNET,
              IVCF-L@UBVM.BITNET

FOR HOLY WEEK

Assist us mercifully with thy help,
O Lord God of our salvation,
that we may enter with joy
upon the contemplation of those mighty acts
whereby thou hast given unto us life and immortality,
Through Jesus Christ our Lord.


      FOR THE MONDAY BEFORE EASTER

      READING: Isaiah 42:1-9
      ("Behold My servant...he will bring justice to the nations.)

      PSALM 36:5-10
      (The love of God is as steadfast as the mountains, and in Him
      is the well of life.)

      EPISTLE: Hebrews 11:39--12:3
      (Let us run our race with perseverance, looking to Jesus, the
      Pioneer and Perfecter of our faith.)

      THE HOLY GOSPEL: John 12:1-11
      (Mary annoints Jesus at Bethany.
      Hostility against Jesus increases.)

Almighty God,
whose most dear Son
went not up to joy but first he suffered pain,
and entered not into glory before he was crucified:
Mercifully grant that we,
walking in the way of the cross,
may find it none other than the way of life and peace,
through the same thy Son Jesus Christ our Lord,
who liveth and reigneth with thee and the Holy Spirit,
one God, for ever and ever.
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