From: angelai@wam.umd.edu (Angela I.)
Subject: Re: RFD: Codependency (Third Attempt)
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:32:18 GMT

In article <_g-s0yb@SantaFe.edu> dgs@sfi.santafe.edu (David G. Simmons) writes:
>I strongly disagree with the premise that addicts cause co-dependents, even
>partly.  Codependents *find* addicts to be with *because* they are co-dependent

This has come up twice now, so let me clarify publicly.  I did not say, nor
did I intend to imply that codependents are strictly the victims of 
addicts.  What I was expressing was that many codependents learned their
compulsive behavior through growing up in addictive households.  In that
sense, the addictive behavior they saw while growing up is where they 
learned addictive behavior themselves.  Of course, it is up to the
adult codependent to learn to break their compulsions and to learn
healthier behavior patterns, themselves.  However, it may be
difficult for people who have only recently realized that they are
codependent to break their compulsions if they continue to be exposed
to the destructive messages they heard while learning this behavior.
And some people have expressed to me, and I have found it true as well,
that many messages heard on this board are sometimes more harmful
than helpful to recovering codependents.  I realize that this will
be the case in any forum, but I think a newsgroup which is specifically
designated for recovering codependents would help alleviate this 
problem somewhat.  If codependents seek out addicts, that seems to me
all the more reason for recovering addicts and recovering codependents
to have some time and space that is separate from one another.  I am
specifically referring here to those cases where encountering one
another could potentially cause both to fall into old, destructive
behavior patterns.

It seems to me that the reason ACoA and CODA and OA & other 12-steps
exist is because AA realizes that each group has specific difficulties
which are similar in some ways, but also different in some ways from
the other groups.  

>Addicts do not cause normal
>people to become codependent, except in the case of small children. 
I was, in fact, referring to people who have been in addictive relationships
since childhood.  There are many of us.

>Recovering
>from codependency requires that we learn to exist in the same world with
>addicts without it negatively affecting our lives. If we run away from all
>addicts, even those in recovery, all we are learning is to run away, not
>to change, grow and recover.  
I would certainly expect crossovers between the groups.  Some people 
would read both, some would read one or the other.  I don't see why
having a separate forum to discuss specific problems with codependent
relationships & recovery is "running away" from recovering addicts, since
most codependents are constantly faced with addicts (some of whom are
recovering, though some are not).  

>I think we should stick it out here in a.r and a.s.  If an addict gives you a 
>hard time, learn to stand up for yourself.  I know that the first time I was 
>able to tell an addict "that behavior is *not* acceptable, and it is you, not me,
>that has to change" was a major turning point in recovering from codependency. 
>Besides the "opportunity for growth" here, it turns out that most addicts are
>*also* codependents (I'm ducking after that one! ;-), and we may be able to
>spread the message better, and farther, if we stay put, and speak our own
>truth about what we know and believe.  I think that all the proposed functions
>of a.r.d are already provided by a.r and a.s.  

I have noted your opinion, and if as many others agree with you, we
will not issue the new group.  However, I have already received a
large number of responses from people who feel this is a good idea
(both recovering addicts, codependents, & both).  I will defer to
the majority, of course.

"Take what you like and leave the rest."

Angela

These opinions are mine, and they're ok.  Because I'm smart enough, good
enough, and gosh darn it - people like me.  You know why? Chicken pie! :)
-- 
**************************  angelai@wam.umd.edu  ****************************