From: traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: De-muffining
Date: 16 Apr 92 07:44:35 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

In article <18195@oasys.dt.navy.mil> jeanthea@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Jeantheau) writes:
>In rec.food.veg, traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:
>Yes, using the WHO-recommended protein figures and assuming the cup
>of rice is uncooked, your calculations appear to be correct.  But one 
>of the things that confuses me--and no doubt many other aspiring veggies--
>is that "protein" is sometimes discussed in terms of amino acid balance--ie.
>"the body can only create protein if the amino acids are present in 
>the correct proportions..." But then we see references to RDA's that 
>are in terms of total protein, which doesn't necessarily correlate
>to utilizable protein.
>
The  concept  of  utilizable protein is poor. Proteins are not even used by
the  body,  they  must  be  broken down into amino-acids before they can be
utilised.  Often  the  only  important  factor  is that the body remains in
positive  nitrogen  balance.  As long as this is the case it doesn't matter
what  we  eat.  While  certain  foods are considered to have non-utilizable
protein they still help to maintain the nitrogen balance.

>I understand everything you have said, and I tend to believe most of
>it.  But I'm concerned about protein consumption levels and protein 
>utilization because I have observed in myself a tendancy to lose muscle 
>mass as I have been experimenting with new foods (mostly grains, beans, 
>legumes, and vegetables).  Perhaps this is coincidental, caused by other 
>factors.  I don't know--I'm just trying to figure it out.
>
I  can't  help  you  there  because  I am not a body builder. I know I lost
large  amounts  of weight when I became vegetarian but as I continued to do
a lot of walking my muscles stayed put.

>>>Reference 1--"The Vegetarian Handbook"--states just as emphatically that it
>>>*is* important to consume complementary protiens together (p.58 and other
>>>places).
>>>
>
>>But Reference 1 is wrong! Can't you understand that?
>
>No need to flame.  Why would I have assumed something called "The Vegetarian
>Handbook" was wrong?  That's not to say that I take it as gospel, either.
>*All* written materials are someone's opinion.  Some more factual than
>others, but interpretations nonetheless.
>
Sorry  if  that  appeared  as a flame but I find that I am repeating myself
on  this  matter.  The  data concerning nitrogen balance and protein intake
is *not* opinion it is fact.

>I will continue to investigate and accumulate evidence.  Be content
>that, through my investigations, the balance of evidence is tipping 
>in favor of your viewpoint. Don't get upset that I don't accept it without 
>doing the proper research on my own.
>
Please! This is not a viewpoint I hold, it is fact!

>>Please do not continue to spread the myths surrounding protein combining.
>
>I don't think that by discussing it I am "spreading myths."  When there
>are supposed experts out there--vegetarians, no less--who still deny
>some of your assertions, how can I not want to seek out new sources
>of information and question them to make sure they make sense?
>
You   should  find  out  which  vegetarians  are  still  preaching  protein
complementation  and  advise  them  that  their research material is out of
date,  in  most  cases I expect you will find they already know this, it is
their  books  which  are out of date. I may have been a little harsh on you
by  saying  you  were spreading myths but you did originally state that "it
can't  *hurt*  to  combine  vegetable proteins". I believe it can if people
become confused by this matter.

>>I  thought  you  were also going to prove that a diet of chocolate biscuits
>>and  potato  crisps would not provide enough protein. What happened to that
>>assertion?  A  diet  of  chocolate biscuits and potato crisps is actually a
>>better  protein  source than brown rice! (And by better I do not mean it is
>>better for you:-).
>
>You made this as a casual assertion, with no analysis or references.
>I simply made a casual observation that it didn't seem reasonable.
>
Well you might be surprised! Maybe you should eat more choccie biccies
to keep those muscles pumping?->


-- 
Michael Traub
BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@rtf.bt.co.uk