HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dulcinea@cwis.unomaha.edu (Shaene Steinauer)
Subject: Re: Call for votes: To reveal or not to reveal...
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 05:52:15 GMT

HCM100@psuvm.psu.edu  writes:
> If you read this group (magician or not), if you even *LURK* on this group,
> or if you are just passing through, PLEASE respond to this post and let
> everyone here know that you exist.  I would like to determine the scope
> of the readers on this group for a potential FAQ.
>

NAME:  Shaene M. Steinauer  (dulcinea@cwis.unomaha.edu)
 
> PART OF THE WORLD YOU LIVE IN:_Omaha, Nebraska
> 
> MAGICIAN or LAYPERSON:__in between
> 
> If Magician:  TYPE OF MAGIC:_easy
>               AGE:_20
>               YEARS OF EXPERIENCE:_12 or so
> 
> If Layperson: AGE:_20_
>               WHY DO YOU READ THIS GROUP:_To become a better
						magician
> 
> DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO THE ART OF MAGIC TO POST
> "INSIDER" INFORMATION PERTAINING TO THE METHODS USED TO ACHIEVE
> A MAGICAL EFFECT:_No._
 
> WHY/WHY NOT:_(see posts)  Information is not just for people 
				who can afford to buy it.
				The main reason I haven't 
				been able to go from half-magician
				to magician is because I cannot
				afford to.  This would be a great
				forum to help young (and broke) 
				half-magicians.

			     Information-giving would be voluntary.
				MAYBE WE COULD HAVE A POLICY WHICH
				ASKS PEOPLE TO WAIT TWO DAYS 
				BEFORE RESPONDING TO QUESTIONS
				INVOLVING INSIDER INFORMATION,
				AND IF ANYONE POSTS AN OBJECTION
				TO SOMEONE GIVING AWAY THEIR TRICK,
				PEOPLE WILL ONLY RESPOND BY PERSONAL
				EMAIL.

			      How could you enforce such a FAQ?
> 
> ADDITIONAL COMMENNTS____Besides above, If any FAQ decides to exclude
			Insider information, there should be a section
			in it to list people who are willing to discuss
		        secrets by e-mail, who they are willing to discuss
			them with, and how much information they themselves
			posess.
> 
> I will summarize and post results in 2 weeks.


--Thanks, Hans.  Great idea.
> | O |                                                                   | O |
> |   | Hans C. Masing          "By all means marry: If you get a good    |   |
> | O | HCM100 @ PSUVM.psu.edu   wife, you'll become happy; if you get    | O |
> |   | HCM100 @ CBA1.psu.edu    a bad one, you'll become a philosopher." |   |
> | O | Penn State MIS Dept.                           - Socrates         | O |
> |   |                                                                   |   |
-- 
--Dulcinea
    (Shaene M. Steinauer)
    (dulcinea@cwis.unomaha.edu)
****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: loon@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za (LOON M J)
Subject: Re: Call for votes: To reveal or not to reveal...
Organization: Wits Electrical Engineering (Undergrads).
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 11:12:05 GMT

In article <1689BDE35.FLANAGA@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> FLANAGA@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU (Scott Flanagan) writes:

>In article <92310.084630HCM100@psuvm.psu.edu>
>Sleight of Hans <HCM100@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
> 
>>
>>If you read this group (magician or not), if you even *LURK* on this group,
>>or if you are just passing through, PLEASE respond to this post and let
>>everyone here know that you exist.  I would like to determine the scope
>>of the readers on this group for a potential FAQ.
>>
>>PART OF THE WORLD YOU LIVE IN:_Johannesburg, South Africa
>>
>>MAGICIAN or LAYPERSON:_Lay__________
>>
>>If Magician:  TYPE OF MAGIC:_not currently practicing magic
>>              AGE:_00__________
>>              YEARS OF EXPERIENCE:_00__________
>>
>>If Layperson: AGE:_22__________
>>              WHY DO YOU READ THIS GROUP: I don't usually. I'm a beginner 
					    (in magic)

>>DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO THE ART OF MAGIC TO POST
>>"INSIDER" INFORMATION PERTAINING TO THE METHODS USED TO ACHIEVE
>>A MAGICAL EFFECT:_Possibly.
>>
>>WHY/WHY NOT: The methods of magic tricks are by definition, secret, only 
to be disclosed in a teacher/student or magic/cult type of environment. 
i.e. if there were some kind of entrance requirement to this newsgroup then 
it would be ok.

--
Marc Loon <loon@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za>
Student No: 8807871/X
Elec Eng. University of the Witwatersrand
Johannesburg

Conversation: a voice competition between two people
in which the one taking a breath is called the listener.
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: ab56503@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Major Tom)
Subject: David Copperfield in Chicago:
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 06:18:48 GMT

	Hey there!  Has anyone seen DC's latest tour? (the flying one)
	Well, although quite similar to the tv special, he did do
	5-6 "new" tricks I haven't seen before.  Anyways, I'd like
	to know what CD or CD's most of the Phil Collins music was
	from during the show (and any other artist if known).  It
	fit very well I thought. 

		Practice Hard!

		
+------------------------------------------------+----------------------+ 
|  Ari Braginsky (Major Tom)                     |  "Making Time In A   | 
|  Email to: roboman@uiuc.edu     	         | A Low Rent Highrise" |	
|  At University of Illinois in Champaign/Urbana +----------------------+ 
+------------------------------------------------|  "My god, it's full  |
                                                 |   of stars!"         |
                                                 +----------------------+	
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: bpeal@eng.clemson.edu (brian (malibu) peal)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: VOTE??
Date: 5 Nov 92 02:12:10 GMT
Reply-To: bpeal@eng.clemson.edu
Organization: College of Engineering, Clemson Univ.



I hereby call a vote, will the person is now working on the FAQ, please design a list of questions that you want answered in a questionaire form.  You might include the question of what is you level of magicianship.  Then we could all vote on it and send it to you.  You could then post the results.  Thus end this discussion on the FAQ.

I have very strong feeling against the revealing of secrets, but all this posting of weither to or not is taking up bandwith and time.  Let's get back to the basics. 

If anyone who is interested, I will e-mail 1 new pocket-magic trick to you a week.  Via only through e-mail.  Please e-mail me your name, e-mail address, level of experience, and illusionist/pocket-magic.

				Malibu S. Peal

bpeal@eng.clemson.edu
Clemson University
Computer Engineering
From: flbbs!mike.morrell@ncoast.ORG (Mike Morrell)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: RE: FAQ VOTES: SO FAR...
Date: 5 Nov 92 08:24:00 GMT
Reply-To: flbbs!mike.morrell@ncoast.ORG (Mike Morrell)
Organization: Fleet BBS (216) 646-0655 24 hrs DUAL STD

On 11-05-92, David Stanley wrote to ALL:

-> A trick is in greater danger of being reveal by placing the info a
-> book in the need on the net.

Well David I have to disagree with you on this point, putting an effect
in a book is a great way of HIDING the secret...most people go to a
magic shop and buy tricks while the "true" magic - books, collect dust.
A case in point, while watching on David Copperfield on T.V. he
performed a card rise where the chosen card "rose" from a PICTURE of a
deck of cards. A great little illusion, but I had the feeling I had seen
this before.. sure enough it was in a book, printed in England, that I
purchased about six months earlier....I glossed right over it...the good
stuff has, and always will be buried in books.

Regards Mike
From: gumby@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (David Brian Gumminger)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Penn & Teller Book/ Show
Date: 5 Nov 1992 13:58:54 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Keywords: Penn & Teller


I was in my local bookstore today looking for Penn & Teller's new book.
I thought it was called _How_to_play_with_Your_Food_ and was due out
on the first of November.  Waldenbooks, however, tells me they've never
heard of it.  Anyone know the scoop on the book?                       

Additionally, I will be attending Penn & Teller's show on Monday November 9.
I'll try to post a review of the show sometime Tuesday morning.

Dave
-- 
David B. Gumminger
Kansas State University
gumby@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Open or Closed
Date: 11 Nov 92 23:28:31 GMT
Followup-To: alt.magic
Distribution: alt

In article <1992Nov8.133920.10690@random.ccs.northeastern.edu>,
rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical) wrote:
> 
> 
> 	This whole discussion of open or closed is sort of silly.  I
> mean, ifthis was a moderated group, under say the rec. heirarchy, the
> moderator could enforce a rule of non-disclosure.  But this is altnet.
> Altnet is anarchy, pure and simple.  If I want to discuss a specific
> effect, I will; there is very little anyone can do about it, except
> sulk and whine.  Sulk and whine if you wish - it won't stop me, and I
> hope it won't stop others.  

Does that mean that you divulge tricks to anyone who asks you to show them
how it is done?

I've been off this group for a few months, and when I come back, your's is
the first one I see.  I get the distinct impression that a 12-year old
child wrote the above message.  All that's missing is a threat to hold your
breath until you turn blue in the face.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Now that I have a reader that can do .sigs, I can't think of a witty |
|one to put here, so I won't.  All normal disclaimers apply.          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: djstanle@napier.uwaterloo.ca (david stanley)
Subject: Re: Call for votes: To reveal or not to reveal...
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:24:48 GMT

>If you read this group (magician or not), if you even *LURK* on this group,
>or if you are just passing through, PLEASE respond to this post and let
>everyone here know that you exist.  I would like to determine the scope
>of the readers on this group for a potential FAQ.
>
>PART OF THE WORLD YOU LIVE IN: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
>
>MAGICIAN or LAYPERSON:__MAGICIAN_________
>
>If Magician:  TYPE OF MAGIC:_Close up & Stage
>              AGE:__22_________
>              YEARS OF EXPERIENCE:__6_________
>
>
>DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO THE ART OF MAGIC TO POST
>"INSIDER" INFORMATION PERTAINING TO THE METHODS USED TO ACHIEVE
>A MAGICAL EFFECT: NO
>
>WHY/WHY NOT: 

	 In the grand scheme of things there are very few people who
read this group and I believe that those who do have a very genuine intrest in
magic.  More importantly though, I believe the pupose of this group should be
to help people, who are beginning in magic or at any level and are in need of
advice or assistance.  You've probably noticed that in the last few posts
there have been people who are asking for help but will probably not get a 
response that satisfies them because they cannot be specific enough about
what the problem is they are having.  And if even if they were specific enough
no one else would bennifit from the advice. (Those who ask are usually asking
a question many other people have).  I think the best possible use of this   
group would be an open interactive forum on the pros and cons of doing       
tricks or effects in different ways.
 


David.


---------------------------------------------------
I have wrought my simple plan,
 If I bring 1 hour of joy
To the boy who is half a man
 Or the man who is half a boy.

			Sir Arthur Conan Doyle 1912

----------------------------------------------------
From: mckellar@author.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael G McKellar)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Sample FAQ
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:44:09 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <NIELSEN.92Nov4114612@gienah.crd.ge.com> nielsen@crd.ge.com (Paul E. Nielsen) writes:
>1) You would be hard pressed to find magicians willing to share their
>   secrets in a public forum despite any guidelines we might write.
>2) I've tried to list some common explanations magicians cite for not
>   revealing their secrets.
>3) The FAQ is a fair warning to newcommers that they shouldn't expect it.
>4) Flaming and calling people fascists will not change the inherent need
>   for secrecy.
>
>--
>Paul Eric Nielsen                                   nielsen@crd.ge.com
>
>The opinions expressed in this posting are mine alone and do not
>necessarily reflect the views of General Electric.



The question is:  Is it alright for some of use to use this news group
to discuss the illusions or should we adhere to the secrecy policy?
Personally I don't feel like I'm breaking the magician's code of
secrecy by discussing an illusion here because most of the readers are
either magicians or want to be magicians.  But if the concensus is to
maintain secrecy, I'll abide by that.
 
Mike McKellar (mgq@inel.gov)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: fdeignan@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: Books, the Best Bet
Organization: Clark University
Date: 7 NOV 92 13:54:29 GMT

The Amateur Magician's Handbook by Henry Hay can be found in most
bookstores.  It is a paperback book with 396 pages and has a price of
U.S. $4.95 on it.  If any reputable bookstore does not have it on their shelf,
they can certainly order it for you.  It's an excellent book for the person
who thinks they would like to start off in magic. It is a Signet Book.

For those of you who have posted that you would like to get into magic but
don't have the money for tricks, books are your best bet.  Probably the
grand-daddy of all series is the Tarbell Course in Magic.  It is hard cover
and comes in seven volumes.  I bought the complete set at a magic
convention for $115.  If bought separately, I believe that the first volume
is $15 and the succeeding ones are $18 each.  The complete course is
a wealth of magical information!  For a little over $100 anyone can get
into magic and be able to perform some amazing feats.  Every so often
I'll see a fellow magician perform some magical miracle I've never seen
and he'll then tell me that he got it out of Tarbell.

Another fine book is the Mark Wilson Course in Magic.  The 472 page
hardcover book sells for about $20-$25 and also is a wealth of magical
information.  For this small investment you too can get into the field of
magic.

Hank Lee's of Boston carries both the Tarbell series and the Mark
Wilson Course in Magic.  Hank's toll free number is 1-800-874-7400.

So let's not hear anymore stories of the poor aspiring young American
boy who would love to get into magic but can't afford it.  If you can't
afford $25+ to start a new hobby then maybe you should look into
collecting seashells.
From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Open or Closed
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:57:02 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: College of CS, Northeastern U

In article <mike_steiner-111192152653@192.35.50.131> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
>In article <1992Nov8.133920.10690@random.ccs.northeastern.edu>,
>I wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 	This whole discussion of open or closed is sort of silly.  I
>> mean, if this was a moderated group, under say the rec. heirarchy, the
>> moderator could enforce a rule of non-disclosure.  But this is altnet.
>> Altnet is anarchy, pure and simple.  If I want to discuss a specific
>> effect, I will; there is very little anyone can do about it, except
>> sulk and whine.  Sulk and whine if you wish - it won't stop me, and I
>> hope it won't stop others.  
>
>Does that mean that you divulge tricks to anyone who asks you to show them
>how it is done?

No, I don't tell just anybody.  But I think Usenet is not telling just
anybody, but (mostly) people who have a real interest.

>I've been off this group for a few months, and when I come back, your's is
>the first one I see.  I get the distinct impression that a 12-year old
>child wrote the above message.  All that's missing is a threat to hold your
>breath until you turn blue in the face.

Sorry, I missed the (apparently empty in your opinion) threat I made.
I'm just recognizing the reality that this group is inherently
anarchic in nature, and no number of resolutions to the contrary will
change that. 

I mostly lurk here...reveal secrets or not, as you wish - just don't
tell me I can't.  Form rec.magic.moderated, instead, and leave those
who post here to reveal as much or little as they individually choose.

	RA

rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (The Rogue Agent)
----------------------------------------
The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas
of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new
research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and
ask for one.
From: nielsen@crd.ge.com (Paul E. Nielsen)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: VOTE??
Date: 5 Nov 92 15:35:09 GMT
Organization: GE Research, Schenectady NY


In article <1992Nov5.021210.13214@hubcap.clemson.edu>bpeal@eng.clemson.edu (brian (malibu) peal) writes:
> I hereby call a vote, will the person is now working on the FAQ, please
> design a list of questions that you want answered in a questionaire
> form.  You might include the question of what is you level of
> magicianship.  Then we could all vote on it and send it to you.  You
> could then post the results.  Thus end this discussion on the FAQ.
>
> I have very strong feeling against the revealing of secrets, but all
> this posting of weither to or not is taking up bandwith and time.  Let's
> get back to the basics.

1) I don't think a vote will change anyone's mind.  Those that want others
   to post secrets will continue to ask, "How is it done?" and those that
   know have the feeling you express in the second paragraph.
2) To reduce bandwidth complaints, please send future suggestions and
   contributions concerning the FAQ directly to me rather than posting.
3) Without officially calling a vote: While posts are split, my email is
   running 100% in favor of the policy expressed in the FAQ.  I'll continue
   to collect email and post a summary with the next FAQ.
4) I too have strong personal feelings about publicly revealing these
   secrets and would not support a forum which encouraged it.
5) If you are genuinely interested in the inner workings, take the time to
   educate yourself (the FAQ provides some excellent suggestions) then join
   the magicians mailing list.  I've included Bruce's magic-request
   address in the next FAQ.

> If anyone who is interested, I will e-mail 1 new pocket-magic trick to
> you a week.  Via only through e-mail.  Please e-mail me your name,
> e-mail address, level of experience, and illusionist/pocket-magic.

As long as I have your attention:
1) Paul Nielsen
2) nielsen@crd.ge.com
3) collector, sometime practitioner, former demonstrator, and former shop
   manager
4) club and platform
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: arthurc@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Arthur Chandler)
Subject: Stealing Routines
Organization: California State University, Sacramento
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 06:18:59 GMT


The other night I went to a SAM dinner in Sunnyvale, thanx to someone 
here who posted the info.  I'm a juggler, and not a magician; but I
wanted to see my "cousins" (we're all into deft manipulations, right?)
do their stuff.  It was very good: a fellow named Irv and another who
called himself The Golden Cat did some very smooth and entertaining
routines.
  BUT:
 A young lady who calls herself Zany Amy did her act.  The opening
routine was a straight 3-ball juggling act.  The entire routine -- all
the moves, and EVEN THE MUSIC -- was ripped off without attribution
from a juggler named Michael Menes.  The pilfered routine appears on the
videotape of the 1989 International Jugglers Association festival, in
which Menes was a contestant.  There was more juggling and magic; but I

(and my whole family, who are all jugglers) was truly bummed out by the
brazen
theft.
Now, admittedly, it took some skill to copy Menes's routine -- though
she performed it with too many drops.  However, in the world of
juggling, it's considered reprehensible to take, not just a move or even
an idea, but a whole sequence of moves and the accompanying music and
present them as your own.
  What's the view in the world of magic on borrowing/imitating?
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: jpeg8496@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jeffrey P. Elbel)
Subject: Re: Penn and Teller
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 08:24:17 GMT
Keywords: P& T

Hi.  Sorry my file transfer didn't work.  Copying in from the
clipboard on a Mac didn't work either.  Suggestions?

Another answer to a specific question:  Penn said he is aware
of this group, but that if he posted he would be inundated with
letters from doubting Thomases wondering if it was really him
or not.

Jeff "Three... of... Club..." Elbel
From: flbbs!mike.morrell@ncoast.ORG (Mike Morrell)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Bicycle Decks
Date: 5 Nov 92 08:12:00 GMT
Reply-To: flbbs!mike.morrell@ncoast.ORG (Mike Morrell)
Organization: Fleet BBS (216) 646-0655 24 hrs DUAL STD

On 11-5-92 Arthur Chandler wrote to all:

AC>  Anyway, my question: why don't magicians like "bridge-size decks"?
AC>Either size is fine with me.                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Well Arthur I can only give you my point of view about this size issue.
I believe quite a few of the "packet" tricks which are generally known
to the lay audience are "bridge" size...accordingly the connction is made
that "it must be a trick deck" pops up. Second, poker sized cards
"showcase" the effect better than the bridge size. And lastly - and
probably the most important...practice with the larger, poker sized cards
will cover you in an impromptu session when the host(s) throws out a
pack of cards...bridge or poker, you will feel more comfortable because
you practiced with the larger cards....

Regards Mike
---
 . DeLuxe./386 1.25 #12317 . Now using Qmail DeLuxe....and loving it!
From: flbbs!jeff.smith@ncoast.ORG (Jeff Smith) 
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: CALL FOR VOTES: TO REVEAL
Date: 8 Nov 92 02:03:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Fleet BBS (216) 646-0655 24 hrs DUAL STD
Reply-To: flbbs!jeff.smith@ncoast.ORG (Jeff Smith) 

-> PART OF THE WORLD YOU LIVE IN:OHIO
->
-> MAGICIAN or LAYPERSON: MAGICIAN
->
-> If Magician:  TYPE OF MAGIC: ILLUSION DESIGNER
->             AGE: 22
->             YEARS OF EXPERIENCE: 15
->
-> If Layperson: AGE:_____________
->             WHY DO YOU READ THIS GROUP:_______________________
 TO LEARN OF BOOKS AND PERTINENT RESEARCH MATERIAL
From: Chris.Colvin@kennel.FIDONET.ORG (Chris Colvin)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: FAQ votes: So far...
Date: 6 Nov 92 00:20:42 GMT
Organization: Fido's Kennel, Cupertino CA

Many moons ago I used to belong to the IBM. Can anyone send me an address?

Chris Colvin
cdcolvin@nyx.cs.du.edu





--  
Chris Colvin
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!Chris.Colvin
INTERNET: Chris.Colvin@kennel.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Chris Colvin only."
Newsgroups: alt.magic