HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: vickeong@student.business.uwo.ca (Victor Jiun-Wen Keong)
Subject: RE : SINGAPORE LAWSE (sic)
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 01:20:31 GMT

godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY) the cry-baby writes:
 
GL> I insulted your government, not your people.  
  > And less of the "Godfrey" please, it's laurence or Dr. Godfrey 
  > if you prefer.
  >            [ and cry baby stuff deleted........]
 
Osbert, and my dear colleagues on s.c.a., this man here just 
wants attention. He probably has nothing better to do - 
something we say in Singapore : 
 
      Jia Pa Bo Sai Pang !!!! (in Hokkien) 
 
so he starts insulting us all with his very much flawed logic. 
Ignore him. He actually admitted these attention-grabbing 
tactics to one and all in his earlier posting. 
 
What we have here is something great. I guess if you are not a 
Singaporean, you will never understand what our ex-PM had to 
go through to build up a nation. We are what we are today, not 
because we liked people dictating our every move, but because 
we had leaders who had the foresight and courage when we got 
kicked out of the Malaya Federation.
 
We do not like people dictating our every move, and our 
government did realize that and has been steadily giving us 
our freedom as they deemed fit. All you human rights activists 
will cry foul as soon as you read this - but the western 
notion and ideals of fundamental human rights CANNOT be 
transplanted from culture to culture and nation to nation at 
anybody's wimp and fancy. You have to realize what the 
intrinsic nature of our society is - we (I say we in the 
general sense) were brought up to respect our elders, honour 
their teachings, guidance and act on it, WITHOUT QUESTION. And 
these are the exact rudiments of the Confucian ethics our 
government has been promoting as we matured as a nation. 
 
While I sometimes question the wisdom behind the petty laws we 
have, I NEVER thought they were stupid. There is a flip side 
to everything, and a lot of times the laws were made because 
of pragmatic reasons to help in our industrial growth. We 
wanted to give MNCs who are pouring tons of investments into 
the country an assurance that everthing is orderly and under 
control. In a recent survey done by a Chicago consulting firm, 
Singapore was voted by Fortune 500 executives as the BEST city 
in the world to set up their foreign headquarters. Need I say 
more?  

vickeong@student.business.uwo.ca (Victor Jiun-Wen Keong)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
From: fellow@cs.utexas.edu (Heng Wei Osbert Tan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Confucianism and the Singaporean
Date: 12 Oct 1992 09:20:35 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: yoakum.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Oct12.003325.3747@ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au>, u3169709@ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (Numero Uno) writes:
> 
> These children will never grow up.  As adults, they will continue to
> view the world through their child's eyes.  Hence authority is viewed
> as a parent (hi Osbert), to be obeyed without questions.
> 
Hi Num,
	When I mentioned parent in my other post, I really meant country,
not government, not authority, there is IMO, a difference between them.

	Role playing is an important part of a growing process, when children
play, they are essentially playing out a role of their imagination. Be the
child a white, brown, black or yellow, they all go through the same kind
of growing process. I agree that Confucianism tend to emphasize the need of
a group rather than individual, it showed in countries such as Japan,
Korea, Taiwan and China. But to say children grew up in said philosophy tend 
to be more docile, or worst "never grow up", is untrue at best. We all know
about the student movement in Korea and China, and the Japanese and Taiwanese
are starting to question the wisdom of conformity preached by Confucianism.
However, that does not mean that Confucianism is no good or out dated, we just
have to fit the idea better into today's environment and society. Even the 
Americans are starting to talk about emphasing in family value, which is the
smallest unit of unity taught in Confucianism. Of course to take ANY thing
whole sale is unwise, being it Confucianism or Democracy. 


-Osbert






-- 
                                     _ _
---------------------------------ooo--U--ooo------------------------------------
fellow@cs.utexas.edu  Standard disclaimer applies. My opinions are, simply mine.
"heng2 mei2 leng3 dui4 qian1 fu1 zi3, fu2 shao3 gan1 wei2 ru2 zi3 nu2" Lu3 Xiu4
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad)
Subject: Re: Muslims converting to other religions in England!
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 07:51:37 GMT

Anak Jati Terengganu (emfar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu) wrote:
: 
: 	By the way...  I really like know more story about Muslims
: 	converting away in England.. Anyone has something to share ?
From what I recall reading, those who converted to other beliefs apart from
Islam are girls who marry others.
	So you muslim students, look after our girls. At least be nice to them.
This JPA ruling of not allowing students to get married is just stupid. I
can't blame them when liberal parents are the ones who demanded the ruling.

HOw about US students. I also hear horrow stories about murdering babies.

: 
--
Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet
From: hw0r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Heng Wong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: RE : SINGAPORE LAWSE (sic)
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:57:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.kepF4hm00YV9E9LZ0y
	<1992Oct8.155708.12778@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
Organization: Junior, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

>Are you sure he only stated a fact? This God-Fried fellow is wanting
attention.
>He is not only notorious here but in s.c.thai.  He seems to be at odd
>with people in Thailand and Singapore! So the best is ignore him.

Were you born this literal, or did you have to have surgery? OK, mavbe
to you this wasn't a fact, but that's just to you. I really don't think
many people use news groups to get attention, if they do, that's kind of
sad. And what's with this mutilation of his name, if you can't make a
proper argument, then resorting to insults is pitiful.
 
>What is human right if there is not enough to eat and there is 
>chaos and disorder? 

Dignity, anyone? So what you're saying is that as long as everyone is
well-fed and peaceful, nothing else matters. I don't think so. Human
rights are an integral part of every society, the right to vote, the
right to speak, the right to believe in your own religion, the right to
wear whatever clothes you want. Sure, if things break down and the
status quo changes, martial law can come into effect, it did pretty well
for us in 1960, but in society at the present, we can express ourselves
and that is our right.

>Flame war is inherently name calling, isn't it? SO it is not really good
>other than allowing  you to practice insulting people. On the otherhand
>level-headed discussion is good and beneficial. 

I don't see any level-headed discussion at this time.


_______________________________________________________________________
Love is the delusion that one woman differs from another.

                                             Kit.  hw0r@andrew.cmu.edu
                                             (412) 268-5464
_______________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: chai@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ian Chai)
Subject: Re: INTERNET IN ASIA/INDIA.
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 01:05:32 GMT

af620@yfn.ysu.edu (Andrew Tan) writes:
>Will Internet and Bitnet feed the poor and hungry, and cure the sick
>in the entire nation of India???

Of course. Not only that, it will walk on water, heal the sick, give
sight to the blind, make the lame walk, found a monotheistic religion
among pagan desert-dwellers, raise the dead, and conquer the world!

(Ok, ok, so it'll only conquer the world. 8-)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: hamdan@iti.gov.sg (Outlander(KSL))
Subject: Malaysia Cup Results[7 Oct]
Originator: hamdan@atlas.iti.gov.sg
Organization: Information Technology Institute, National Computer Board, S'pore
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 06:56:23 GMT


Hi,

Here are the Malaysia Cup results as published by The Straits Times:

Pahang		1	bt	Negri Sembilan	0 [Stadium Tuanku Abdul Rahman]
Kuala Lumpur	3	bt	Penang		0 [Merdeka Stadium]
Kedah		4	bt	Perak		3 [Stadium Darulaman]
Terengganu	2	bt	Sarawak		0 [Stadium Negeri]

Stadium Guide:	

Stadium Tuanku Abdul Rahman		Negri Sembilan	[home team]
Merdeka Stadium				Kuala Lumpur	[home team]
Stadium Darulaman			Kedah		[home team]
Stadium Negeri				Sarawak		[home team]

Scorer's List:

Pahang:		Zainal Abidin Hassan(1)
Kuala Lumpur:	Azman Adnan(2), Zoran Nikolic(1)
Kedah:		Aziz Azizan(1), Jelani Wilastra(1), Faridzuan Che Hamid(1),
		Noor Izam Ishak(1)
Perak:		Idris Kadir(2), Kyi Lwin(1)
Terengganu:	Arifin Osman(1), Marlon Van Der Sander(1)


Current Standing:

		Group A
		P  W  D  L   F  A   Pts.
K.Lumpur	4  3  0  1  10  2    6
Terengganu	4  3  0  1   7  6    6
Sarawak		4  2  0  2   3  5    4
Penang		4  0  0  4   1  8    0


		Group B
		P  W  D  L  F  A   Pts.
Pahang		4  3  1  0  6  2    7
Kedah		4  2  1  1  9  7    5
N. Sembilan	4  1  1  2  2  4    3
Perak		4  0  1  3  5  9    1

With these results Pahang is the only team that is has confirmed a place in the
semi-final.

Local News:
There is still no official news from FAS as to the participation of S'pore in
next year Semi-Pro league. First Hsu Tse-Kwang(FAS President) hinted that S'pore
might not be participating in the league next year. On the other hand FAS has
agreed to sent a representative to KL this Friday to attend the preliminary draw 
for Div 2. 

Thought of the day from FAS:
Quote from John Koh(FAS Secretary)
"Yes we will be sending our representative to attend the draw....we never said we
were not going to participate. We just made our stand known."

end.........DISCLAIMER..The text above has been based on The Straits Times dated
7 Oct `92. All facts given are based on my understanding of what I read. I admit
no claim to its originality.....end...of...transmission
-- 
 H.Hamdan(Outlander)			|	Internet: hamdan@iti.gov.sg
 Knowledge Systems Lab		    	|	Bitnet  : hamdan@itivax.bitnet
 Information Technology Institute    	|	Fax     : (65) 7773 043
 ======================================END=====================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: roland@cs.monash.edu.au (Roland Yap)
Subject: Malaysian cookbooks
Organization: Computer Science, Monash University, Australia
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 17:25:19 GMT

Just to start back a thread on food and cooking.

I was wondering if anybody has found any particularly good cookbooks
containing Malaysian recipes. 
I have found the "Complete Asian Cookbook" by Charmaine Solomon
and published by Lansdowne Press in Australia to be quite good. 
In fact there appears to be a new edition of it.
The funny thing about my copy was that I ended up buying it in KL
as it was cheaper than in OZ.
What other books have people found to be good?

Roland

----------------------------
Roland Yap                          Email: roland@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au
Department of Computer Science      Phone: +61 3 565 5186
Monash University                   Fax: +61 3 565 5146
Clayton
Vic 3168
Australia

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: smustopo@nyx.cs.du.edu (sofjan mustopoh)
Subject: Thanks
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 13:35:41 GMT


  Thanks for all who have mail me fishing information
  "keep the line tight"
  Muskie

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: mmurali@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Man from Mohenjo Daro)
Subject: Re: By Election - PM Goh Promise ?
Organization: Lion City
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 05:05:37 GMT

Have patience guys! 
I am sure it will be held before March 1993 as promised.


-- 
=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o= 
 Murali Damodaran, Sch. of MPE    <> Internet: mmurali@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg     
 Nanyang Technological University <> Bitnet  : mdamodaran@ntuvax           
 Nanyang Avenue, SINGAPORE 2263   <> Phone : 65-799-5599  Fax: 65-791-1859
From: u907736@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Edmund Chia)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: SINGAPORE LAWSE
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:06:14 GMT
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia

In article <KYTAN.92Oct12092719@mantra.fia.dmg.ml.com>, kytan@mantra.fia.dmg.ml.com (Kok-Yong Tan) writes:


Stuff deleted)

> Don't be so sensitive and defensive, for crying out loud.  Everybody has idiots
> in government and we have our share in Singapore (maybe more than our share,
> actually.)  

Too many text-book academics and 'bureaucratic personalities' in government.

Edmund
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: C587307@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Theresa McConnell)
Subject: Re: Mat Setia and satellite parabolic antenna
Organization: The Ohio State University Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 21:08:03 GMT

On Sat, 10 Oct 1992 12:53:32 GMT Othman Ahmad said:
>My colleague had just bought a GPS(Global Positioning System) made by SONY
>for S $1600. It is so small but can be accurate to 30m. The disk is only
>about 6 in in diameter.  I can get some reading by just putting it outside
>a window.
>        How much does such a device cost in US?
>
>--

A local Kmart store sells it for $499 excludes installation. An accompanying
decoder/descrambler box will cost around $150 - $200.  Wanna get one?? :)



>Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
>Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
>Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
>Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet
>
From: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Malaysia's Atom PC=M$1600
Date: 10 Oct 92 15:06:11 GMT
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]


When I was in Malaysia many weeks ago I read in the papers that there are
proposals from Uniphone and other companies for  a cheap PC for the educatioanl
market. The cheapest on offer is Atom M$1600. The reason quoted was the
support cost. One case was the technician who flew from KL to Kuantan, only
to just switch on a switch. THEY SAY THAT IT IS VERY HARD to make it cheaper
than this.
	 Why should all support staff be from KL? ;m so fed up with this
centralisation of purchases. The contractors who got it are mostly from KL,
the other suppliers in smaller towns cannot service PCs.

	For price comparisons, I once say a S$300 transportable Pc 386 with
512K ram, CGA Lcd display, 2 360K floppy disk, in Singapore. Maybe it was on
offer at that time but they claim to have them in large stock.

From clarinet.streetprices, I saw 286 lap top with Hd for Us $600.

I do not know the specs for Atom becasue of poor journalistic practices.

--
Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad)
Subject: Re: Mat Setia and satellite parabolic antenna and the 5% dude
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 00:54:49 GMT

fajack@cc.usu.edu writes:
: In article <1992Oct7.060951.29023@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg>, eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
: 
: > Another potential dictator. Presumed guilty even before any trial.
: > With so many dictators around, it is indeed surprising that we have
: > a democracy at all.
: > 
: 	We (I am sure you are refering to Malaysia) do NOT have a 
: democrary.  According to your definition, presumed guilty even before trial
: is dictatorship, then let me remind you that we have ISA in Malaysia.
: 
: 
It is the presence of people like that that make ISA acceptable and even
defended strongly. Remember how they want to apply ISA to me just for saying
that chinese journalists/editors do not tell the whole truth.

--
Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: u907736@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Edmund Chia)
Subject: Re: SINGAPORE LAWSE
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 07:19:35 GMT

In article <8OCT199216134448@sscvx1.ssc.gov>, godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY) writes:

stuff deleted

> >My opinion of Singapore's supposedly draconian laws is that they appear 
> >to work quite well and probably account for the country's rapid progress 
> >in the last 3 decades.  I think cleanliness, low crime, efficiency in 
> >services, etc. seem to be more than an adequate return for such things as not 
> >having the right to chew gum.  
> > 
> Do you honestly thimnk that cleanliness, low crime, efficiency etc. are
> the result of the ban on chewing gum?  By the way, did you notice how clean
> the less savoury areas of Singapore were, or did you just visit the airport?
> 
> Laurence

As far as I know, there are VERY few unsavoury places in Singapore. In fact,
that is one of the reasons many 'western tourists' in search of the
mysterious orient or a 'sin-city' are disappointed with the place. Nope,
anti-gum laws were probably not responsible for low crime and efficiency in
services. My opinion is that is is a petty and silly piece of legislation,
then I don't like gum nor would I miss scraping it off my shoes - so I shall
not be matching on the streets of Singapore, in front of western media cameras
(except FEER & AWSJ) shaking my fists, with tears streaming from my eyes,
shouting "I want democracy! Bring back chewing gum" in an attempt to topple
the government which had brought Singapore prosperity and peace for the past
26 years, and replacing it with ...Hmmm(I have thought of the replacement yet)
But anyway, who cares - the point is to restore chewing gum to the republic
right!

Edmund
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: iscksc@nuscc.nus.sg (Mr Khoo Siau Cheng)
Subject: HDB and Marriage (Re: Is freedom a 'Western' value?)
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 02:04:27 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.055917.24767@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
>Mr Khoo Siau Cheng (iscksc@nuscc.nus.sg) wrote:
>: scheme for "four-generation staying together" (don't know what the
>: actual name is) by learning the social problems arised in the western
>: 
>Hey, I do not know that there is such a campaign going on in
>Singapore.

There is indeed such a scheme, but not a campaign. Just called up the
HDB Jurong West Branch office, and was told that it is called the
"multi-tier scheme". To qualify for it, the family needs to be
composed of 3 generations. Don't know if PR is eligible for this.
For further detail, please call your local HDB branch office :-)

>Even if there was such a campaign, it is an absolute failure given the
>small size of HDB flats, and the desire by well-off youngsters to live by
>themselves away from their parents.

Multi-tier scheme is only used for application of certain type of flats.
(Don't know the name, may be called multi-tier flats.) These are
bigger flats; otherwise, there won't be any incentive, right? The
success of applying HDB flats under this scheme depends on the
availability of these flats. So, saying that it is an absolute failure
is absolutely wrong. Check it out, Sir, before posting. 

>
>The current campaing is to encourage women to marry as early as possible,
>as early as a 4 year old!
>

En. Othman, you may think that you have created a new joke while writing
this sentence, but those netters who don't know much about the current
affair in Singapore may take this as a true fact unless you care to 
put in some smilie sign in your statement, or at least clarify any
possible doubt. This is especially so considering the wide readership
you have attained so far :-) 

I take it that you are referring to the recent inappropriate
advertisement promoting for marriage at earlier age. But, the netters
should also know that it is not the intention of the advertiser (the
government) to promote dating at the early age of 4, and this
advertisement has been withdrawn from broadcasting after several
complaints made by the public.

-- Siau Cheng
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: scstech@solomon.technet.sg (Billy)
Subject: Looking for Andrew Tan
Organization: Singapore Computer Systems Ltd
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 09:58:13 GMT



ATAN or Andrew Tan,

Have you ever stayed in K.K,Sabah before.
Are you the same Andrew Tan that I know
who moved back to Penang some years back ?
If you are please email me at the following,

	scstech@solomon.technet.sg

BTW, please specify "For Billy Shum" as the
subject.

Billy Shum.
From: gt6737b@prism.gatech.EDU (E.A. JAAFAR)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Muslims converting to other religions in England!
Date: 14 Oct 92 20:02:59 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Oct14.070042.9064@newsroom.utas.edu.au>, u907736@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Edmund Chia) writes:
> 
> If I remember the relevant section in the constitution correctly, being muslim
> is not in itself enough to attain 'bumi' rights or to be recognised as 'Malay'
> One would also have to be Malaysian, adhere to Malay customs, speak Malay and
> practise the Malay culture. Therefore, theoretically(and in practice), even
> if one was born of Chinese or Indian parents, one could still become 'Malay'
> on fulfiling these 'requirements' and claim the special privileges under
> sec 153, et al. An example would be adopted children from other races in
> Malay families.
> 
> Edmund

Mr Chia, although I see the flow of your argument but I think that you
hve misunderstood the fundamental issue of the question.  .d.  

I must make it clear to you in particular that, it is true, being a moslem
isnt the criterion  in order to be a bumiputra.  Please do not be confused
by "hak-hak keistimewaan  orang melayu" and the word bumiputra.    

I must say I have forgotten under what section(s) that describe "hak-hak
keisimewaan orang melayu", but that was where the problem was.  One has
to be a 'melayu'(malay) to get those recognition under the constitution.
a
Now, melayu in return, isnt defined by the color of the skin of the people
that it represents. The word melayu also was interconnected to Islam.  AS
I've said before, there is a section under the constitution of the federation
of malaysia that redefines the meaning of 'melayu'.  The definition of
melayu included in your statement however was undoubtedly true also o.  However
to claim the 'bumi' status and thus applying the privillages under the
cited section of the constitution is completely wrong.

Bumiputra isnt exclusively for 'melayu'.  Melayu is a separate entity and
only a segment of Bumiputra.  tra. 

Hopefully I help clarifying s/thing up.  Thank you kindly.

w

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| E.A. JAAFAR, North Ave. Trade School, Atlanta.  GO BRAVES NL WEST CHAMPS.|
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean