HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: DIVINE MASTERS and SOUL TRAVEL
From: S952092@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 01:32:51 GMT
Organization: UM ST. LOUIS

        I appriciate what was written. But it was mentioned that
        physical world is MISERABLE. I am sorry but I can't agree with
        that.
 We are here on the physical plane to learn not to suffer. The physical
 plane is the best plane to advance spiritually. We were born with a reason,
 and we know it. All we have to do is to look inside of us. People who think
 that the physical world is miserable are missing (supressing) the opportunity
 to learn and grow. Karma is never was panushment for us. Karma is our desire
 to gain an understanding through experiences that we create for ourselves.
 People who don't appreciate the physical world don't appreciate their own
 existence.
 
 
                                  "Share The Light"
 
                                                   Jack.
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: Near Death Experiences
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 21:00:56 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.123406.10213@news.ysu.edu>, ae553@yfn.ysu.edu (David Jameson) writes in part:
|> >|> neurons to keep firing even after being deprived of oxygen for a few
|> >|> minutes?  This would apply for all the NDEs i.e. if the "light at the
|> >|> end of the tunnel" is purely a result of brain activity then obviously
|> >|> a lot of neurons will need to be firing -- would this be possible when
|> >|> the oxygen supply to the brain has been shut off?
|> >Yes, definitely.  In fact, this is a very likely physiological model of
|> >the NDE.  And from what is know of comas, people can receive information
|> >from their ordinary senses, even though they are apparently unconscious
|> >for a long time.  So, you don't have to invoke ESP to account for people
|> >hearing conversations when they are unconscious, this is know to
|> >happen through the ears.  (This is why well trained nurses are very
|> >polite, kind, and positive to folks in comas--they know that if and
|> >when the patient wakes up they might well remember.)
|> 
|> Are you sure about this?  In a coma this wouldn't be any problem but
|> are you sure that the brain can function for extended periods without oxygen?
|> e.g. after a heart-attack.  In the programme, one surgeon said it was
|> impossible.  I don't know whether this is true or not as I'm not a
|> neurobiologist.
I wasn't very clear.  There are several claims all mushed together here.

I was claiming that a patient in a coma can sometimes receive 
information from outside.  This is fairly well established, although 
I don't know that neurologists really understand how this might happen.

I also claimed that brain activity can continue for at least a while 
with oxygen cut off.  This is clearly possible, as it happens all the 
time when people are resucitated from heart failure.  Naturally, there 
may be damage, and the experience may be wierd....

In addition, I was drawing an inference:  if people can receive info
while in a coma, and if brain function can continue during heart
failure, then it seems reasonable that the brain could sometimes get
info about the world while dying for lack of oxygen.  I think this
is a reasonable speculation, and I think it well might account for
some of the things that people "see" in NDEs.

One wonders exactly what the surgeon was trying to say.  Is 10
or 15 minutes an "extended period"?  People often are revived 
that long after drowning or heart failure.

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: TO ROBERT
Date: 9 Oct 92 14:27:36 GMT
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science

In article <1992Oct8.204825.11576@nrtpa038.bnr.ca>, TARZAN writes:
|> ROBERT, DO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO.   LIFE. 

AWFULLY NICE OF YOU TO ALLOW ME TO DO WHAT I WANT.

Any chance you might get a keyboard with lowercase on it?

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
From: sfl@muttley.ucsd.edu (Susan Fichera)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Experience with precognition
Date: 13 Oct 92 23:33:47 GMT
Organization: Department of Music, UC San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: muttley.ucsd.edu


Greetings!

Here is an experience I had many years ago, that started me thinking
about the nature of consciousness, etc. I had alot of strong deja-vu
experiences when I was growing up. I still have them occasionally now.
In my adult life, I have had many 'out-of-body' experiences, launched
both from the dreaming and waking states. The fact that these
experiences have increased dramatically in the last 10 years coincides
temporally with my pursuit of a particular spiritual path. I can tell
you that I was practicing the contemplation techniques of that path
when the oobe experiences occurred.

Well, on to the experience itself. This happened when I was a sophomore
in high school. I was raised Catholic, and was not particularly
questioning about it at that point. I was not making any effort to
meditate, contemplate, etc, nor was I using drugs.
I was in English class one day. We were having a spelling contest.
We were all lined up at the front of the room. The teacher was going
down the line, giving each student a word to spell. As people were
eliminated, the group up front got smaller. We were down to about
7 people, when I went into this funny trance state. I was in a fuzzy
greyish place, experiencing the same spelling contest, but I saw the way
it was going to turn out, not the way it was happening just then. 
I heard the next series of words the teacher was going to give out,
and the responses to them. I heard the words I would be given, and
the word I would win on. It happened to be `environment`. When I
left this fuzzy state, the contest proceeded, and all the words and
responses were given as I had just heard and seen in that
trance-like state. The student in front of me failed to spell her
word as I knew she would, and I won on the word `environment`, as
I knew I would.

Not an earth-shaking occurrence, but enough for me to call into
question everything I assumed about the temporal order of things.
My personal interpretation of the event is that I was being
pushed, in a very gentle way, to begin the questioning process
that continues in my life to the present day. As to who or what
is doing the pushing, I think that spills into a spiritual discussion
that is not within the charter of this news group. However, I'd
be glad to discuss it with interested persons that write me
directly.
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: jorngh@dhhalden.no (JORN GUNNAR HALONEN)
Subject: Re: Please Label Experience Messages "Experience"
Organization: Ostfold College
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 10:07:58 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.180043.19869@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes:
>In article <29mFsB1w165w@netlink.cts.com>, jim@netlink.cts.com (Jim Bowery) writes:
>|> Please put the word "Experience" at the top of your message if you
>|> are posting an account of an experience you've had or know of.
>|> 
>|> --                    
>|> INTERNET:  jim@netlink.cts.com (Jim Bowery)
>|> UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!jim
>|> NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
>
>Which will allow those who only want to read about experiences to avoid 
>all other types of postings....

Or vice versa ... :)

>  Robert E. McGrath
>  Urbana Illinois
>  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu

*JORN* (email : jorngh@sofus.dhhalden.no)

Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: fsrsg@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu (Richard S. Guse)
Subject: factors such as noise conditions(oobe)
Keywords: noise
Reply-To: fsrsg@acad3.alaska.edu
Organization: University of Alaska Computer Network
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:31:50 GMT

In my readings, and in this group, not much thought or opinion
has been given to noise.  Is this that little of a factor?
It seems to me that it would only be a problem with the 
relaxation phase(ie: more to tune out), but as an example, monroe
has a definate lack of talk about noise (background or other)
in his experiances or when he gives technique other than a
'quiet area' or something...I look at that as pretty vague...
would it not work in a place where there's the slightest bit
of noise?  I'm looking forward to peoples' opinions...-r
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: TARZAN
Subject: Re: Practice Lessons for OOBE Newbies
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 19:33:01 GMT

In article <1687AB8B1.S952092@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU> S952092@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU
writes:
>        Hi All! I've been receiving a lot of email from people who were
>    basicly asking the same things. I have a feeling that lots of them
>    have access to alt.out-of-body. Answering even simple questions for
>    each individual taking a lot of time.
>       I am thinking to post and share my knowledge and understanding
>    of OOBE phenomena which came to me through my own personal experiences.
>       I'll be giving the simple exercises for Newbies who wants to achieve
>    the out-of-body state.
>            Please E-mail me if you like the idea,
> 
>                                       THANKS....
>                                           Jack.
> 
>
JACK.  PLEASE POST.  I AM VERY INTERESTED TO HERE WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY...
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Practice Lessons for OOBE Newbies
From: S952092@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 18:08:01 GMT
Organization: UM ST. LOUIS

        Hi All! I've been receiving a lot of email from people who were
    basicly asking the same things. I have a feeling that lots of them
    have access to alt.out-of-body. Answering even simple questions for
    each individual taking a lot of time.
       I am thinking to post and share my knowledge and understanding
    of OOBE phenomena which came to me through my own personal experiences.
       I'll be giving the simple exercises for Newbies who wants to achieve
    the out-of-body state.
            Please E-mail me if you like the idea,
 
                                       THANKS....
                                           Jack.
 
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: Question on Robert Monroe
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 15:29:24 GMT

In article <1b1fisINNst1@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, oldham@ces.cwru.edu (Daniel Oldham) writes:
|> What is this Robert Monroe Institute? 
|> 
|> I have never hear of it and there seems to be a lot of talk about it.
|> I gather that it is a place where people train for OOB?
Its exactly that.  They talk a good game, and presumably get enough
business to stay in business 20 years.  Does anyone have any references 
to independent assessment of the effects of the programs?  I've seen 
numerous descriptions of what they do, but nothing that indicates
what the results actually are.

|> Did you know that the U.S. government used OOB to gather information
|> during operation Desert Storm? 
Is there any solid source for this claim?  I've heard this rumor, but I've 
seen no evidence or source for it. 

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: astral planes
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 18:16:35 GMT

In article <RyXosB1w165w@netlink.cts.com>, jim@netlink.cts.com (Jim Bowery) writes:
|> Robert McGrathK writes:
|> Furthermore, I already have seen new ground broken here.  In all
|> my readings on oobes and hypnogogic states, I've never run across
|> a description of the lightning flashes subsequent to the sleep
|> paralysis terror -- which I've experienced personally -- yet among 
|> the first messages I saw in here were precise descriptions of that
|> experience.  
I definitely stand corrected.  I had forgotten that comment, and agree
that it is not exactly widely reported.   Perhaps a FAQ file should
contain a list of the interesting information actually uncovered
by this group (as opposed to recounted from others or argued about).

|> Also, not everyone has the same technique for eliciting oobes.  
|> You should respect to the techniques others use -- as good and 
|> effective as your own may be.  Part of the experience is the
|> activity leading up to the actual oob event itself.
I haven't heard any induction method here that I haven't heard
of from other sources.  Still, keep posting them.

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: TARZAN
Subject: Re: Experience with precognition
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:59:17 GMT

In article <1bfmcrINNkm@network.ucsd.edu> sfl@muttley.ucsd.edu (Susan Fichera)
writes:
>
>Greetings!
>
>Here is an experience I had many years ago, that started me thinking
>about the nature of consciousness, etc. I had alot of strong deja-vu
>experiences when I was growing up. I still have them occasionally now.
>In my adult life, I have had many 'out-of-body' experiences, launched
>both from the dreaming and waking states. The fact that these
>experiences have increased dramatically in the last 10 years coincides
>temporally with my pursuit of a particular spiritual path. I can tell
>you that I was practicing the contemplation techniques of that path
>when the oobe experiences occurred. As to who or what
>is doing the pushing, I think that spills into a spiritual discussion
>that is not within the charter of this news group. However, I'd
>be glad to discuss it with interested persons that write me
>directly.
>

I think that most of the people in this news group would be interested in this
spiritual path.  I am curious.  For me OOB experience, precognition spiritual
awareness etc. are all a part of Real Life.  I seek this Real Life and enjoy
hearing of other peoples adventures in spiritual growth.
	If this path is helpful for spiritual growth I would be extremely interested. 
Thanks.                      
										
									Tarzan
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: wombat@cs.montana.edu (Izurieta)
Subject: astral planes
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, MSU, Bozeman Mt 59717
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:44:03 GMT


	I know that this does not belong in this newsgroup, but since 
there has been a discussion regarding reincarnation, masters, planes of
existance, blah, blah,  I feel I need to respond.

	First of all, I am not a religious fanatic, I am however a catholic
which I don't even know what that means.  Naturally I am interested in anything
that is related to what happens after we die.  However, I find it extremely
difficult to believe people (I am very open minded) when they start subdividing
astral planes into subregions, and they know the exact number of "planes" after
you die, etc, etc.    Where do you get all of this information???

	How do you expect me to believe this stuff?  Do not insult my intelligence.


	Is there a subdivision in this astral world for my dog?  If not,
why not?  the dog and any other animal are biological creatures, just like
us humans.  For the same reasons, even a cockroach deserves a spot in this
stral plane.  Who knows, it may even reincarnate as a trout next time it comes
around.

	COME ON!!,   I am not trying to start a network fight here, but you
can see how I can be this sceptical.  Anyone else feel my way??

					Clem.

					(wombat@fubar.cs.montana.edu)



Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: TARZAN
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: Please Help
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:05:58 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research

In article <63240001@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com> kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com
(Kingsley Morse) writes:
>              Please answer these 9 questions and return.
>
>1.) Do you think equal rights for men and women is generally a good idea?
>Yes                  [Y ]
>Sometimes            [ ]
>No                   [ ]
>Haven't heard enough [ ]
>Other                [ ]
>
>2.) Are you pro choice?
>Yes                  [Y] I HAVE NO RIGHT TO FORCE YOUR LIFE STYLE.
>Sometimes            [ ]   AS LONG AS YOUR LIFE STYLE DOES NOT HINDER MINE
>No                   [ ]
>Haven't heard enough [ ]
>Other                [ ]
>
>3.) Are you in favor of adoption?
>Yes                  [Y ]
>Sometimes            [ ]
>No                   [ ]
>Haven't heard enough [ ]
>Other                [ ]
>
>4.) Do you think men should be allowed to legally terminate their parental
>rights and responsibilities before fetal viability?
>Yes                  [ ] IF THEY CAN NOT OPT FOR ABORTION THEY SHOULD NOT
>Sometimes            [ ] BE LIABLE FOR THE REST.  BUT THEY SHOULD HAVE TO 
>No                   [ ] DEAL WITH THE EMOTIONAL CONSEQUENCES IF THEY 
>Haven't heard enough [ ] COULD OPT FOR ABORTION.   THE BEST WAY IS TO
>Other                [Y ] EDUCATE THE CHILDREN ON THE VALUE OF ALL LIFE.
>
>5.) What sex are you?
>Male               [M ]
>Female             [ ]
>
>6.) How old are you?
>Under 18           [ ]
>19 to 65           [ ]28
>Over 65            [ ]
>
>7.) What religion are you?
>Protestant         [ ] WAS BAPTIST BUT NOW JUST SPIRITUAL.
>Catholic           [ ]
>Jewish             [ ]
>Other              [ ]
>
>8.) What political party are you affiliated with?
>Democratic         [ ] THE COMMON SENSE PARTY.
>Republican         [ ]
>Other              [ ]
>
>9.) How many years of education have you completed?
>Grade School       [ ]
>High School        [ ]
>College            [Y]
>More               [ ]
>
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: mikeb@spl1.spl.loral.com (Michael H Bender)
Subject: Re: Is separation EASY ???
Organization: Loral Software Productivity Laboratory
Distribution: alt.out-of-body
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 23:52:03 GMT

When I was studying in a psychic school, many years
ago, they pointed out that not all people have the 
same psychic aptitudes (just like some people are 
short and some are tall). Thus, by reading a person's
chakras (the 5th to be specific) a good psychic can 
tell how much ability/talent the person has for
telepathy.

Would it make sense to assume that astral travelling,
like other abilities, might not be the same for all 
people?  Maybe some people will be able to do it easily
and for others it may be very difficult

Mike
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: emanuel@dxcern.cern.ch (Emanuel Machado)
Subject: Re: astral planes
Organization: CERN European Lab for Particle Physics
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:13:32 GMT

In <1992Oct9.191629.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:

>In article <1992Oct9.195519.12162@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert 
>McGrath) writes:
>> 
>> Grass, however, has no brain, and does not sleep or dream.  Since grass
>> doesn't seem to be self-aware, I can't see how it could have much
>> "experience" of any kind, in or out of its "body".

>i've heard of experiments in which a guy goes into a room full of plants and
>kills a plant or two in the presence of all the others.  the
>plants emit a vibration that has been compared to a scream...then whenever the
>"murderer" comes back in the room, the still-living plants emit that same
>vibration...i think there's more to plants than science acknowledges...

>Jude

	It's funny, just yesterday I had a friend of mine telling me the
exact same thing. Is it verifiable? Has it been reproduced? Do you have
any reliable references to this?

	Now I'm really curious.

	Emanuel

-- 
Emanuel T.M. Machado (PPE/CPL)|  "Who Wills, Can     | European Laboratory for
  __                        _ |   Who Tries, Does    | Particle Physics (CERN)
 /_  ____   _   __  , , _  |/ |   Who Loves, Lives"  | -- Internet Address --
/_  / / / /_ < / / /_/ <'_ /_ |    -- Anne McCaffery | emanuel@dxcern.cern.ch
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: near death exp.
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 17:58:39 GMT

In article <anne.719176521@menaik>, anne@cs.UAlberta.CA (Anne J.R. Nield) writes:
|> >I don't like to see people be unkind and insensative any more than you 
|> >do, but why do we need so many posts on this topic?
|> 
|> I just happened to be "passing through" this group -- but isn't its
|> title something to do with "OBE's".  Doesn't the "E" have something to
|> do with "Experience"? 
|> 
|> Just wondering what the point of discussing something is if experiences
|> don't count.  But -- maybe I missed something here!?

I was referring to the "metadiscussion" about how terrible it is that
"everyone" is so rude and insensative.   OBE stories are definitely
fine.  I was questioning the frequent discussions of how people aren't
being accepting enough of other people's stories.

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: usenet@adobe.com (USENET NEWS)
Subject: Re: near death exp.
Originator: asanders@sparta
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 00:16:04 GMT

| Just exactly how am I supposed to treat someone's 
| "deeply meaninful experience" anyway? It's not 
| necessarily that meaningful to me.

             -Robert E. McGrath

As civilized human beings, presuming that we consider ourselves
civilized or at least desire to become so, we should try our
best not to stomp on another person's reality--even if our
own experience contradicts that person's assumptions. Nobody
has all the answers (even if most of us think we do, at least
some of the time). :->

Someone else's experience may not be meaningful (or even
interesting) to me at all. But why would I feel compelled
to demonstrate that fact to anyone? Could it be that I have
my own axe to grind? Most likely, I'd say.

I'm not picking on Mr. McGrath. I've done this myself--felt
obliged to prove another person wrong, or to devalue his
viewpoint in some way. But that kind of behavior discredits
*me*, not the other person.

		-Alan



Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: KHATCH@130.187.170.178 (kh)
Subject: Re: Near Death Experiences
Organization: Terra Incognita
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:02:17 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

In <1992Oct13.135608.19568@news.ysu.edu> ae553@yfn.ysu.edu writes:

>   Some people might say "these people weren't _really_ out of their
> bodies -- they were just using some kind of telepathy/clairvoyance/etc. to
> get information that wouldn't be possible using the normal five senses".


    That explanation doesn't seem any more credible to me