From: farrell@python.cis.ohio-state.edu (christopher k farrell)
Subject: Re: An interesting question (any game)
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 19:30:58 GMT

	This issue has been discussed repeatedly in the past few years on
r.g.b, and I'm starting to tire of it a little!  I really see no reason for
this endless debate.

	The described tactic is a tactic, no less, and no more - and that is
how it should be addressed.  If it is a tactic that works in the game you
are playing, I recommend playing finding another game.  If one of your players
is always is trying to use this tactic, I would deal with him in the same way 
you would deal with an opponent who alway moves his troops in the open, or who
always attacks that same hill, or who always plays the Fremen and goes for the
win on turn 3.  Try to forcibly break the nasty habit; get him to play Republic
of Rome (where he will almost certainly go down in flames) or some similar game
where the strategy is so variable, and lack of intelligence can get you killed
off real fast.  If he can't play up to the level of the other players, then
perhaps you shouldn't invite him back.

	But the problem is self-correcting.  In good multi-player games, a 
player in a weak position should not be able to throw the game.  Take something
like Gangsters, Republic of Rome, Adel Verpflictet, 18xx, or Dune.  In each of
these, a weak player is not in a position to throw the game to anyone.  Take,
by contrast, Advanced Civ.  No matter how badly you are doing, you can always
take another player down with you, or elevate the player of your choice to
victory - a very serious flaw, to my mind.  That makes the suicide ploy 
extremely effective, and the only game where I have seen it's consistant use
across many gaming groups.

	This is, of course, going to end in a plug for my favourite game of all
time - Republic of Rome.  Not only does every player always have a chance, and
"going ballistic" is unnecessary, but one player usually cannot take another
with him, since the penalties for failed assassinations are so severe that it
is a weapon of the desperate.  And everybody is always doing somthing; small
factions are never out of it, since they are in an excellent position as non-
threatening compromise candidates (although you have to be careful not to 
entrust a disgruntled faction with a large army), and can reasonably hope to
get back into the game in a few turns.  Going for the jugular to eliminate 
people (or at least reduce them to insignificance) is always bad play, as those
you have trampled almost always come back to haunt you, either personally or
funded by another player.

	You do have to get over the "if I can't win, the Republic won't 
survive" mentality, and get them to realise that just because they aren't 
winning doesn't say very much about the next few turns.  He who plays the 
best over the long haul has the best chance to win; your opportunity may just
not have arisen yet.  Unless *everybody* is really hosing you over, in which
case you may have a point - in which case how you got elected Consul and have
the ability to screw the Republic is unclear.

	Anyway, just a few thoughts ...

							Chris

BTW, I just noticed that landbills in RoR are *permanent* measures - that is
to say, a type III costs you 10T/turn until repealed!  We just saw the three
boxes and figured it was 10T/year for three years!  Everybody I know made the
same mistake until we found it recently.  This makes a huge (positive) 
difference in the game.  Anyone else make this mistake?



	

-- 
"Oh, what a wondrous piece of work is a man, how noble in reason, how infinite
in faculties,  In form and moving how express and admirable, in action how like
an angel, in apprehenion how like a god ..." - Shakespeare, _Hamlet_
"If all you told was turned to gold - if all you dreamed were new ..." - Enya
Newsgroups: rec.games.board