HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: FOCA: And I quote.....
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 20:34:31 GMT
Reply-To: margoli@watson.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Village Waterbed

In  <1992Aug17.173123.12120@ncsu.edu>  dsh@zeus.csc.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
> In article <Bt4rME.Gou.1@cs.cmu.edu>
> garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) writes:
>
> >john@anasazi.com writes:
>
> >> Hmmm... that's odd. I heard a PRO-CHOICE advocate state that 1% of
> >> abortions in the US are in the 3rd trimester. These must be very
> >> busy and rich doctors.
>
> > That's *less* than 1%.
>
> The annual number of abortions performed at 21 weeks and after tends
> to number in the thousands.

What does "21 weeks" have to do with "third trimester"?

> And it's not clear what Ms. Garvin defines as "third trimester". The
> definition of third trimester varies; some put it at 28 weeks, others
> at 24 weeks.

As has been posted previously in talk.abortion:
   Statistics from the Alan Guttmacher Institute:
   51% of all abortions are performed in the first 8 weeks of pregnancy.
   91% of all abortions are performed in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy.
   96% of all abortions are performed in the first 16 weeks of pregnancy.
   99.1% of all abortions are performed by the 20th week of pregnancy.

   LESS THEN 100 ABORTIONS ARE PERFORMED EVERY YEAR AFTER THE 24TH WEEK OF
   PREGNANCY.

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: Never again. How soon we forget.
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:19:51 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Aug14.144432.19429@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay) writes:
>
>There is an alarming trend here to evaluate the horror and misery on some
>sort of Richter-like Scale of Universal Worth - it's not that you don't care
>about the folks being killed, you just don't think Americans should put
>themselves at risk for them, right?   That's clear enough, and cuts right to
>the core of western corruption.
>
>The issue here isn't whether or not stopping the internicene warfare will be
>easy, or painless, but whether or not we care to stop it at all. Whether the
>job would be a 'pushover' or a dangerous and painful undertaking isn't the
>issue, so Hackworth's comments are meaningless. 

  No, this *IS* the issue.  It is *exactly* the issue:   No major
  project or undertaking should be started without having a good
  idea what you're getting into.  You don't buy a house without
  inspecting it, comparing prices, shopping around or figuring out
  how you're going to pay for it.  Ditto with a car.  You don't get
  married without asking yourself questions about whether you love
  the person, compatibility, future plans and prospects, etc. 

  Of course you can't predict the future with perfection, but it
  is truly idiotic to not look before leaping.   Getting involved 
  in military conflicts without clear goals and with politicians
  rather than military men calling the shots has been a recipe for
  disaster throughout history.  The US knows that from Vietnam
  and Lebanon  (Since you're a Marine you should already know this).

  Other nations (USSR in Afghanistan, France in Vietnam and Algeria,
  Cuba in Angola, England in the US revolution, and again in 1812
  have learned similar lessons.    

  I'm not opposed to being involved IF the questions I posed earlier
  are well and truly answered and we agree on the answers.
                              

---peter



Xref: sparky alt.activism:15048 talk.politics.misc:40509
From: jmk@cbnews.cb.att.com (joseph.m.knapp)
Subject: Re: U.S. "TO PROVOKE IRAQ" on MONDAY
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:10:28 GMT

JHARTLEY@cmsa.gmr.com writes:
>>The plan could lead to renewed bombing in Baghdad in coming days and
>>the evacuation of U.N. personnel in Iraq.  Some U.S. government
>>officials said that the timing appeared calculated to give President
>>Bush a boost during the Republican National Convention, which begins
>
>Boy, how inaccurate can you get.  These unnamed source stories belong
>in the National Enquirer or the Baghdad Times right next to "Elvis
>Shaped Boil Lanced Off Saddam's Ass"...

CNN's military analyst (can't remember his name, but he was a constant 
fixture during the War) said that the Pentagon has its favorite news
sources to "leak" information to and the NY Times reporter who wrote the
current story is one of those. During the War, he was a very reliable
source of leaked information. Therefore, according to the analyst, the
current leak was not the "security breach" it was made out to be.

What would be the purpose of leaking this story? Beats the hell out of me...

---
Joe Knapp    jmk@cbvox.att.com
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.activism.d,alt.society.revolution,comp.org.eff.talk
From: pauls@mudskipper.css.itd.umich.edu (Paul Southworth)
Subject: New Political FTP Site -- the straight poop
Organization: University of Michigan
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:05:20 GMT

The area at ftp.css.itd.umich.edu in /poli is now underway, and I I now  
have information on how contributors can submit material to the site.

The following documents are available in /poli and describe the area and  
how to use it.
__________________________________________________________________________

1. /poli/_about.the.site

8/15/92

Welcome to the /poli area of the site.  This area is dedicated to the free  
dissemination of political literature: journals, newsletters, essays,  
reviews of academic and cultural material (books, movies, music), and just  
about anything else that can fit with a political theme.

Space is limited at this time.  While all are invited to contribute to the  
archives, preference will be given to the materials of individuals and  
organizations that have limited funds or access to distribution media.

If you are interested in contributing single documents, please just send  
them along.  If you represent an organization seeking a permanent home for  
your literature or newsletter archives, please send your request for space  
via e-mail.

This area is managed by Paul Southworth, and e-mail should be directed to:  
pauls@umich.edu.  TO SIMPLIFY MY MAIL HANDLING, PLEASE INCLUDE THE WORD  
"FTP" AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SUBJECT LINE.

If you would like to negotiate for a large area of allocated space, please  
consider making a donation toward the purchase of a SCSI hard drive to be  
chained onto the system.
__________________________________________________________________________

2. /poli/_how.to.submit

8/15/92

HOW TO SUBMIT ITEMS TO THE ARCHIVE

Due to security considerations of the administrators who have graciously  
provided us with the space, there will be no directory to which potential  
submissions can be sent via ftp.  All submissions must be sent by  
electronic mail, or via snail mail on disk.

To submit via email, send to:  pauls@umich.edu

BE SURE TO INCLUDE "FTP" AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SUBJECT LINE TO SIMPLIFY  
MY MAIL HANDLING.

To submit via USmail, send to: Paul Southworth
                               Computing Resource Center
			       3113 School of Education
			       University of Michigan
			       Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1259
__________________________________________________________________________

3. /poli/_area.index

INDEX OF SITE AREAS

Revised 8/15/92

Directory	Owner
---------	-----

/poli/ats.d	Arm the Spirit

		* radical anti-imperialist newsletter

/poli/eoa.d	Encyclopedia of Associations

		* provides free indexing services for 
                  organizations/associations

/poli/mpcc.d	Michigan Public Computing Coalition

		* working toward public access to network services


All directories are suffixed ".d"
Xref: sparky alt.activism:14837 talk.politics.misc:39790
From: harelb@MATH.CORNELL.EDU (misc.activism.progressive co-moderator)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.bush,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc
Subject: "STRONG FAMILY VALUES" (IV)
Date: 20 Aug 92 04:06:00 GMT
Followup-To: alt.politics.elections
Organization: misc.activism.progressive on UseNet ; ACTIV-L@UMCVMB


        =====================================================
        Percentage of children living in poverty 1984-1987:(3)
        =====================================================

               ------------------------------
                                     CHILDREN          
               COUNTRY              IN POVERTY         
               ------------------------------

               United States           20.4            

[twice the second highest:]

               Canada                   9.3            
               Australia                9.0            

               United Kingdom           7.4            

               France                   4.6            

               Netherands               3.8            
               Germany                  2.8            
               Sweden                   1.6            

Source: Timothy M. Smeeding, "U.S. Poverty and Income Security Policy
in a Cross National Perspective, October 1991, Luxembourg, October,
1991, Luxembourg Income Study, working paper 70.

******************************************************************

From page 74 of:

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  
_We're Number One, Where America Stands -- and Falls -- in the New    
World Order_ by Andrew L Shapiro.   

New York, May 1992, Vintage Books, a division of Random House.   
$10 paperback. ISBN 0-679-73893-2  
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -   

    "America is becoming a land of private greed and public squalor.   
    This book is an indispensable road map through the wreckage. The   
    facts it reveals will startle you. They may depress you. But   
    ideally they'll fire you up to help rebuild this nation."   

                        -Robert B. Reich, author of The Work of Nations   
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.discrimination,talk.abortion
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Subject: Re: FOCA: And I quote.....
Organization: LLNL
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 00:52:21 GMT

In article <RJOHNSON.92Aug18092840@conus.shell.com> rjohnson@shell.com (Roy Johnson) writes:
... but there are still
>those who consider abortion reasonable family planning, or have them
>because pregnancy would interfere with vacation plans....

	But what _are_ legitimate reasons to get an abortion???

Xref: sparky alt.activism:15035 alt.politics.elections:10850 alt.politics.bush:2029 misc.headlines:5715 talk.politics.misc:40458
From: harelb@MATH.CORNELL.EDU (misc.activism.progressive co-moderator)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.bush,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc
Subject: "STRONG FAMILY VALUES"
Date: 18 Aug 92 22:14:28 GMT
Followup-To: alt.politics.elections
Organization: misc.activism.progressive on UseNet ; ACTIV-L@UMCVMB

"The U.S. ratio of school age children per teacher (23 to 1) is worse
than 18 other counties including Libya, East Germany, Lebanon, and
Cuba

"Although the U.S. ranks 2nd in the world in per capita gross national
product, the country ranks 19th in the world in infant mortality rate,
and 29th in low birth-weight babies. Our child poverty rate is higher
than Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, West Germany, Canada, the United
Kingdom, and Australia.

"The U.S. in not among the 61 nations that provide health insurance or
basic medical coverage to all parents and their dependents, nor is it
among the 63 nations that provide a family allowance to working
parents."

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Send the 1-line message
GET HEALTH INSURANC ACTIV-L
            [sic]
to: LISTSERV@UMCVMB.BITNET for a resource file on National Health Care
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[From: _Children of Crisis_, Sandy Carter, _Z Magazine_, January 1991]

Xref: sparky alt.activism:15132 talk.politics.misc:40760 misc.headlines:5763
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines
Subject: Re: Derailing the Reagan Revolution: Part zero: highlights
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Date: 20 Aug 92 02:20:08 EST
 <1992Aug19.003724.6521@meteor.wisc.edu> <Bt8EvA.8K6@apollo.hp.com> <1992Aug19.212933.14247@dscomsf.desy.de>
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.

In article <1992Aug19.212933.14247@dscomsf.desy.de>, hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker) writes:
> In article <Bt8EvA.8K6@apollo.hp.com>, nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
> |>In article <1992Aug19.003724.6521@meteor.wisc.edu> stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu
> |>(Steve Jascourt) writes:
> |>>In article <1992Aug18.013719.3556@desire.wright.edu> demon@desire.wright.edu
> |>(Stupendous Man) writes:
> |>>> [concerning article he posted from Forbes magazine]
> |>>>	We'll see that while places like Eastern Europe and Mexico use the
> |>>>Supply Side Bible to bootstrap themselves into prosperity, the US, Japan
> |>and
> |>>>Europe seem content to emulate the failed socialist systems we defeated in
> |>the
> |>>>cold war.
> |>>>
> |>>>Brett                                                      
> |>>
> |>>The systems referred to as "we defeated in the cold war" were NOT socialist.
> |>>The word socialism is filled with mythology. A real socialism would involve
> |>>all of the people in making decisions. It would have to be decentralized,
> |>with
> |>>active say by those affected.
> |>
> |>  Oh give us a break.   This is like that other poster claiming that
> |>  the Catholic Church, or fanatical fundies, or whatever, are not
> |>  Christian because they don't live up to his idealistic image of 
> |>  what Christianity is "supposed" to be.
> 
> Chrisitianity is not defined in terms of actions but by beleif. A socialist
> system is one in which certain policies are implemented. The analogy is flawed.

	But nonetheless accurate.

> |>    If large numbers of people
> |>  say "we are Xists, we are doing this in the name of X" then I'm not
> |>  going to debate with them about the meaning of X -- it's their word
> |>  so I'll let them define it. 
> 
> OK so you think that it would be perfectly right for a bunch of Satanists to
> decide to call themselves Christians?

	We have a bunch of socialists calling Soviet communism capitalism, is
that what you mean?

> The term Socialist may be fairly ambiguous, however that does not mean that
> merely calling yourself socialist makes you one. It is a bit hard to see the
> Nomeclatura driving round in chaufeured Zills as having created a classless
> society. Besides Bretts argument progresses to the "Y is an X-ist, Y is evil
> therefore all X-ists are evil".

	It's not my argument.

	(And you're using a flawed analogy.)
:)

	God this is fun :).

Brett                                                      
_______________________________________________________________________________
Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING!
Better, Cheaper, Faster					       (Pick any two :)
Disclaimer:								   NOT!
From: Harel Barzilai <harelb@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:30 PDT
Subject: Nicaragua: "A Faustian Bargain"
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1296500290:000:2947
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!harelb    Aug 18 15:30:00 1992


/* Written  4:02 pm  Aug 17, 1992 by rich@pencil.cs.missouri.edu in cdp:misc.activism. */
/* ---------- "Nicaragua: "A Faustian Bargain"" ---------- */
/** reg.nicaragua: 111.0 **/
** Topic: More on "A Faustian Bargain" **
** Written 10:30 am  Aug 17, 1992 by anndc in cdp:reg.nicaragua **
Westview Press has published a new book on Nicaragua's 1990
elections, "A Faustian Bargain: U.S. Intervention in the
Nicaraguan Elections and American Foreign Policy in the Post-Cold
War Era," by William I. Robinson.
 
Roger Morris, former National Security Council staff member
during the Johnson and Nixon administrations, writes: "Once in a
great while, Americans get a glimpse of American foreign policy
as the rest of the world views it. 'A Faustian Bargain' provides
one of those rare moments. William Robinson reveals the hidden
history of subtle and not-so-subtle U.S. intervention in the
ostensibly 'free' Nicaraguan elections and in the process holds
up a shattering mirror on Washington's fraud, deceit, and
hypocrisy. The result is far more than a well-documented, finely
written case study of U.S. manipulation and oppression in the
Western Hemisphere. In the era of worldwide cable news,
international commissions, and election 'observers,' the old
methods of control have given way to less obvious techniques that
are more presentable but no less savage in result. This book is
not only a stunning portrait of the all-too-recent past but also
a warning of a possible tragic future in inter-American
relations." 
 
From the book: "A penetrating analysis of the controversial U.S.
role in the 1990 Nicaraguan elections--the most closely monitored
in history--this book exposes the intervention in the electoral
process of a sovereign nation by the Central Intelligence Agency,
the Department of State, the National Endowment for Democracy,
and private U.S.-based organizations.
     Robinson begins by tracing the evolution of U.S. foreign
policy in recent decades and reviewing U.S.-Nicaraguan relations
since the Carter administration. He then describes specific
aspects of the 'electoral intervention project,' bringing to
light the clandestine activities of U.S. officials. Finally, he
examines the implications of such an undertaking for U.S. foreign
policy and for social change in the Third World in the post-cold
war era, arguing that it is a dangerous harbinger of a new
interventionism conducted under the pretext of promoting
democracy.
     Drawing on an extensive array of confidential documents and
on interviews with representatives from U.S. and foreign
government agencies, private organizations, and anti-Sandinista
groups in Nicaragua, the author offers a chilling account of a
foreign policy venture that was at the very least duplicitous and
quite possible illegal as well."  
 
For order information, write to: Westview Press, 5500 Central
Ave., Boulder, Colorado, 80301-2847.
 

** End of text from cdp:reg.nicaragua **


Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net (Michael P. Deignan (KD1HZ))
Subject: Re: THE OCTOBER SURPRISE -- "The Verdict is Treason (part 2)
Organization: The Rhode Island Internet Systems Cooperative Network
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 12:07:39 GMT

harelb@math.cornell.edu (misc.activism.progressive Auto-Poster) spews:

>    As for Bush and Casey, prosecutor O'Rourke failed to demonstrate
>    that they could NOT have been in Paris on the relevant days.  This
>    inexplicable lack of accurate record keeping is all the more
>    remarkable for a campaign manager and candidate at the height of a
>    presidential race.

This is a bunch of bullshit. The recent congressional investigation
into the October Surprise yielded a decision several weeks back that
there is no evidence to even suggest that Bush was involved in such a
scheme.


>             T h e   V e r d i c t   i s   T r e a s o n 

	       T h e   V e r d i c t   i s   M a n u r e


MD
-- 
--  Dr. Michael P. Deignan (deg.pend.)      /   "Its okay dear,
--  Domain: kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net     /     you can show me...
--    UUCP: ..!uunet!anomaly!kd1hz        /      I'm a Doctor..."
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.drugs,alt.society.civil-liberty,seattle.general
From: kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum)
Subject: Re: SWAT team kills innocent woman in No-Knock raid.
Keywords: SWAT police no-knock raid death thugs corruption occupying-army
Organization: >>> Eskimo North (206)-FOR-EVER <<<
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 21:14:59 GMT

In article <V4sLPB2w165w@eisley.akita.com> wood@eisley.akita.com (Ken Wood) writes:
[...]
>Normally I really opppose the excessivly huge court settlements but in 
>this case I hope the police and the individual officers involved get nailed 
>to the wall.  That includes the people in charge too, there more at 
>fault than anybody else.  Please don't just shake your head and ignore 
>this.  GET MAD AND DO SOMETHING!!!!  This could be you next time.  These 
>are innocent people!

I hope the whole damned state goes bankrupt paying this off, not to mention
the county.  Let's not forget that all this was done on behalf of the good
burghers of Snohomish County, enthusiastic law-abiders and DARE freaks all,
and I hope that they are plagued with nightmares to their dying day.  I know,
$87 mil is a drop in the bucket to a state with multi-billion $$ deficits,
but I hope I convey the sentiment adequately.

[...]
>>Deputy Aston has now been restored to active duty.

That seems pretty stupid.  Not real good PR, for one thing.
Probably the police union has managed to effectively block investigation.

What kind of useful work are they going to get out of him?  Do they use him
to intimidate people?  Like, ...Tony's the No-Knock Sultan of SWAT, and if you
don't cooperate, we're going to let you & him have a little tete-e-tete?
I can imagine field trips from grade schools to point this guy out as the
boogie-man.

How much are they budgeting for this guy's protection?  They sure must love
him a lot.
[...]
-- 
kurt@grogatch.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum)
e-mail me at kurt@eskimo.celestial.com for a copy of Bob Black's essay,
"The Abolition of Work"
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
From: jswitzer@afit.af.mil (Chip Switzer)
Subject: Re: Media Bias at Republican Convention
Organization: Air Force Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 14:35:25 GMT

ddaye@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David C Daye) writes:

>In article <2A9464B4.16058@orion.oac.uci.edu> cedman@golem.ps.uci.edu (Carl Edman) writes:
>>
>Liberal bias headline:
>  THE PRESIDENT'S ANTI-CHOICE INITIATIVES ALIENATE VOTERS.  DETAILS AFTER THIS
>   MESSAGE.

>Conservative bias headline:
>  THE PRESIDENT'S PRO-LIFE INITIATIVES BROADEN HIS SUPPORT BASE.  DETAILS AFTER
>   THIS MESSAGE.

What an excelent example!  Please look thoughtfully at both headlines
and ask yourself honestly which your are more likely to see in the
national news media.


Chip Switzer                            "A witty saying proves nothing." 
jswitzer@afit.af.mil                              -- Voltaire 
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Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc