HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:07:04 GMT

In <1992Jul23.160551.19811@ddsw1.mcs.com> arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack
Schmidling) writes:

>In article <dfs.711663729@ro> dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:

>>If someone is in a desperate situation, and is begging for help, I
>>would help that person and not ask his opinions on Jews or
>>anti-Semitism first.  Of course, there are degrees - if I happened to
>>see Hitler drowning, I'd more likely throw rocks at him than try to
>>save him.  But in the normal events of life, I believe we have an
>>obligation to help whomever we can, whether they are Jewish or not,
>>although we have a right to give Jewish people priority.

>Just when I was warming up to you, you had to throw in that clunker.  We
>have, of course a "right" to help whom we choose but your context would 
>lead one to imply more than just a right and it gets dangerously close to
>David Duke giving white folk priority.

>Just were is the moral or ethical justification for giving "Jewish 
>people priority"?

All other things being equal, that's my choice.

The moral justification is that if you can only help a certain percentage
of people, you have a right to choose which people you help on any basis
you like.

For example, if you see two people drowning - one is a stranger, and
one is your son - who do you help first?

And you can take the analogy further to more distant family members, then
friends, then finally the "family" that is the world Jewish community.

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________
From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Flames on Israel Radio
Date: 26 Jul 92 10:08:48 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

In article <2317@israel.nysernet.org>, warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) writes:
> Just now heard a politician, responding to attacks made on him, or
> maybe on his party, refer to the attacker, owner of a carpet factory,
> as someone whose political philosophy can be summed up as "hichonu
> l'viat hashatiach".
>
> (Trans: a combination of the Lubavich slogan "Prepare for the coming
> of the Messiah", but Messiah changed to carpet - it rhymes in Hebrew)
>
> Disclaimer - I don't really listen to the radio, but I have a
> backround job listening for jokes.
> --
> /|/-\/-\       The entire ***		Jerusalem
>  |__/__/_/     is a very crowned apple.
>  |warren@      But the Kibo
> / nysernet.org is not all that worried.



This was Avrum Burg of the Labor Party making a snide remark about Avrum Shapira
of the United Torah Front (who happens to own the Carmel Carpets company).

Josh
backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal)
Subject: Re: Helping anti-Semites (was Re: Another Holocaust)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 12:53:37 GMT

In article <Bs25CG.Cqq@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>, aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:
> In article <ZogHoB1w164w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> murray.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu writes:
> 
> >How do you feel the jewish community in South Florida should react to a 
> >Klan march coming up in August. The Klan promises to be selective in this 
> >march and only target Jews; the Federation and the ADL do not believe in 
> >counter demonstrations and the Klan is cute, they will march on Saturday 
> >afternoon.
> 
> Great!  If it were a weekday, one might feel a certain responsibility to
> go out and throw bricks or counterdemonstrate or something.  If it's on
> Shabbat, you can just stay home and have a nap!
> 
> Aryk Nusbacher

Aryk, I hope you were kidding.

We must never allow ourselves to sink to the level of the Klan.
To do so is to yield to them.

My own recommendation, have prayer vigils, or candle-light marches
against racism, anti-semitism, etc.  The march/protest should be
silent, and when in the vicinity of the Klan turn your backs to them,
don't even acknowledge their presence.  Do so only with adequate
police around of course.  They must be seen for what they are,
unacceptable in the twentieth century, in violation of all
views of religion, in violation of modern secular ethics and morality,
i.e. there is no room in this society for their views.
But do not ignore them or fight with them.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to bring the Afro-American community in
to the march too.  Despite the Klan's assurances that this march
is only anti-jewish, one cannot separate racism and anti-semitism,
and the Klan shouldn't be allowed to achieve an agenda of separating
these two communities.  Whatever tensions may exist between them,
Jews and Afro-Americans share enough interest, common values,
to make sure that the White Racists don't become anything more
than a kook splinter group.


		Seth Rosenthal

Disclaimer: All opinions are my own not my employers'.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: egw@utkvx1.utk.edu (Wolpert, Edward Greenwal)
Subject: Kosher - Homebrew question...
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Tennessee Computing Center
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 03:42:00 GMT

	I have a interesting question... is Homebrew considered kosher?
I brew my own beer, and I never thought of if it's kosher or not.
Of course, since there is still some yeast in it, it can't be kosher for
passover :)
	-Edward Wolpert

Wolpert@lead.chem.utk.edu | I'm responsible for my 
egw@utkvx.utk.edu         | actions, are you
egw@UTKVX                 | responsible for yours?
ned@neon.chem.utk.edu     |
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Mafdal and the Government
Date: 23 Jul 92 12:45:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsl.1992Jul23.124544.17138
Organization: NetNews Readers Anonymous

In article <l6r9uuINN8a9@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM> janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM writes:

>the Mafdal had not been involved in the formation of a government
>coalition; I knew they'd quit in a huff from time to time.

"Don't leave in a huff.  Leave in a minute and a huff."
					- Groucho
-- 
Sam Saal      homxb!saal OR saal@homxb.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
From: tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Test
Date: 26 Jul 92 22:38:23 GMT
Organization: Private site

sdfsdf

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Manfredo Tichauer                              Email: tichauer@valpso.hanse.de
Opitzstrasse 14                                Voice:     ++49.(0)40. 27.42.27
2000 Hamburg 60, GERMANY                         FAX:     ++49.(0)40.270.53.09
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax)
Subject: Death Penalty & Jewish Law
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 01:07:29 GMT


I have been going back and forth with a writer/broadcaster named Dennis
Prager ("Ultimate Issues") and had a bit of a snaphoo with him on the death
penalty - which I, based on my Jewish upbringing, _STRONGLY_ oppose.  He
stated that the "rabbis made things difficutl" but that the Torah
"unambigulously" supports the death penalty.  What about the Mishnah?  What
is the Orthodox view on the death penalty, both in light of halakha and in
light of the current (mis)use of it here in the U.S.?  And what is the
Conservative stand on the death penalty?  I am looking for insight, pro or
con, based primarily on theology, though opinions are certainly welcome.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Subject: Re: Anti-Orthodoxy (was Re: O-C-R debate)
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:05:01 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.175226.804@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>In article <1992Jul30.204110.17057@midway.uchicago.edu>
>rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>>In article <84815@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu
>>(Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>
>>>In America, you can still find such R temples.
>
>>Yes; they generally call themselves "classical Reform", meaning that
>>when the rest of the movement figured out that it was throwing the
>
>Is "classical reform" some kind of oxymoron?  I thought the initial idea
>of Reform was to change adn adapt to society.

Yes, it was, and yes, it is some kind of oxymoron.

>Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com

	-Nora
From: moskowit@tronsbox.xei.com (Len Moskowitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: The Cost of Living Jewishly (was Re: O-C-R debate)
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:26:47 GMT
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises Inc.

Dave Rabinowitz writes:

> ... Are there any
>shuls which do not have a membership dues structure?   How do they work?

I daven at a privately owned shul.  No dues, no board of directors, no
question of who sets policy.  If you don't like it, go somewhere else.
If you want to donate, you donate.  If you don't donate, no one will
chase you away.

This particular one is a Chabad House that's owned by the Lubavitch
organization.  Nice folks.

There's a lot to be said for privately owned shuls.


-- 
---

Len Moskowitz
moskowit@tronsbox.xei.com (preferred address)
moskowit@panix.com (alternate address)
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Death Penalty & Jewish Law
Date: 30 Jul 92 21:32:59 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Jul27.010729.15960@wixer.cactus.org> lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax) writes:
>
>I have been going back and forth with a writer/broadcaster named Dennis
>Prager ("Ultimate Issues") and had a bit of a snaphoo with him on the death
>penalty - which I, based on my Jewish upbringing, _STRONGLY_ oppose.  He
>stated that the "rabbis made things difficutl" but that the Torah
>"unambigulously" supports the death penalty.  What about the Mishnah?  What
>is the Orthodox view on the death penalty, both in light of halakha and in
>light of the current (mis)use of it here in the U.S.?  And what is the
>Conservative stand on the death penalty?  I am looking for insight, pro or
>con, based primarily on theology, though opinions are certainly welcome.

The Torah allows the death penalty.  It only allows it by court order,
however, so after the disillusion of the Kingdom of Israel (Judea),
the Rabbis no longer could pass death sentances.  And to get a
conviction and a death sentance is extremely difficult - requiring two
qualified witnesses who not only saw the crime, but also warned the
accused in advance of the penalties for committing it.

As for US law, I don't think the Torah applies.  Although murder is
forbidden, this in no way forbids killing a person by court order.
-- 
   |)  David Charlap           "I don't even represent myself
  /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu   sometimes so NJIT is right out!.
 ((|,)
  ~|~  Hi! I am a .signature virus, copy me into your .signature file.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Chicken
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 27 Jul 92 06:24:31 GMT

In <199207261830.AA27778@yfn.ysu.edu> aa324@yfn.ysu.edu (Marlene Miller) writes:

>*I* definitely can live without eating locusts, but speaking of chicken...
>I understand chicken was once parve, but now it's considered fleishig... 
>can someone tell why and when this came to be?

It's been that way at least since the time of the Mishnah.  The
prohibition against eating fowl and milk together appears there,
but of course it might be earlier.  I don't think that we have any
examples in the Tanach of anyone eating fowl and milk.

As to why, it was so that no one would see a piece of meat, think it
was fowl, and eat it with milk.  This is probably not so likely with a
chicken leg still on the bone, but dishes using chopped up dark-meat
chicken or meat could be confused.

BTW, it's all types of fowl, not just chicken.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire hall		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very three-sided signature virus.
 |warren@      But the ***
/ nysernet.org is not all that concerned.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Subject: Re: What is Jewish religion? (long...)
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
	<LERNER.92Jul22135203@division.cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:37:22 GMT

On Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:52:03 GMT, lerner@cs.columbia.edu (Michah Lerner) said:

>>>   Judaism is like a geometry. I believe that there are various axioms that
>>>   are the basis, for example:

>      Judaism is nothing like geometry.  The Torah is given by HaShem.  

You illustrate the point I am trying to make. Without admitting it, you are
stating that it is your belief that the Torah was given by HaShem. I don't
doubt that you believe it. What I am stating is that you must recognize that
it is a belief, and that it is something that, by definition, we cannot prove.

There are a number of beliefs such as they; they are fundamental in every
religion. Christianity has the belief that Jesus is the Messiah. Regardless of
sect, all Christians hold that belief. Jews for Jesus hold that belief;
therefore, they are Christian. 

So, what makes someone Jewish, in general. Answer: Agreement with some set of
beliefs. What defines this set? It can't be one particular movement, because
by definition that set would be biases. We must look at the intersection of
the systems to find a least common denominator that makes someone Jewish as
opposed to Christian or Islam or ...

Note that it is not, as Michah says, a belief that the Torah was given by
HaShem. Not all Jews believe this (all Orthodox Jews do). Perhaps it is the
more general belief in HaShem. Perhaps it is a belief that there is some
connection -- be it inspiration or writing -- between HaShem and the Torah.

Daniel
--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
	  "You mean on top of everything else, this ship is rigged?"
	     King Ferdinand, of Spain to Columbus (Stan Freberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: New Jersey Kashrut Laws Declared Unconstitutional
Organization: NetNews Readers Anonymous
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 13:07:31 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.221839.789@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:

>We also know, and again stories are posted right here on SCJ, that
>one of the favorite pastimes of meshgiach's is to plant rumors about
>the unreliability of someone else.

While the fact that "stories" are posted anywhere, newspapers or SCJ,
does not automatically make them true, this vile innuendo borders on
slander. Let's be a little more careful, shall we.
-- 
Sam Saal      homxb!saal OR saal@homxb.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: Hebrew school
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus, Academic Computing Services
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:36:52 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.131206.18551@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>One thing that I haven't really seen discussed in this thread is whether
>we feel that we ourselves, or our children, have received a reasonable
>education from our synagogue's Hebrew School.  And if the answer is
>"no", what have we done about it.

I heard (but did not see, so this may belong in alt.urban.legend.jewish)
of a prof at Brandeis who surveyed his students about their knowledge
of Judaism, along with other demographics.  He allegedly found that
Hebrew school attendance had little or no impact on Jewish knowledge,
but did have an attitudinal contribution; those who had attended
Hebrew school apparently shared strong negative feelings about
Judaism.   As I say, I heard it third (at least) hand ...



-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: One question
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 22:26:55 GMT

In article <1992Jul16.182140.23796@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>In article <1992Jul14.142833.14079@news.cs.brandeis.edu> abrams@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:

>>Sometimes the eye in the center of the hand is blue.
>>I think blue is also thought to be lucky or
>>protective, since many doors and windows in Jerusalem
>>are painted blue.  Again, I would assume that people
>>maintain these superstitious customs out of respect for
>>their history and origins, not because they believe in
>>the evil eye.  

>The above is correct. They actually sell blue necklaces (sp?) in the 
>middle east with the above description. I remember back home that 
>if a family have a very beautiful daughter, a good neighbour will 
>tell the mother of that daughter to go and buy a blue necklace
>and put it on their daughter to protect her from evil eye. 

Last year, while on a tour of the Abu Moussa monastery in the
Judean Desert, I was told that blue was considered a protective color
by the Greek Orthodox and that this was why the roofs of the monasteries
in the desert are painted blue.  Did I get something wrong or is
this idea also shared by North African or Arabic people?

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com               Pat Paulsen for President
American-Occupied New York                    This year he has a real chance!
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: krulwich@zowie.ils.nwu.edu (Bruce Krulwich)
Subject: Temporarily off of SCJ
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences, Evanston, IL
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 22:09:41 GMT


I'm going to be off of SCJ for a few months, while I try to actually finish my
thesis and find a job (not to mention learning and family, but those aren't
the things that SCJ conflicts with).  Hopefully things will be more stable in
a few months and I'll start reading SCJ again -- I must say I enjoy it.

Take care,

Dov (Bruce) Krulwich
krulwich@ils.nwu.edu
From: schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu (Richard Schultz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Anti-Orthodoxy (was Re: O-C-R debate)
Date: 28 Jul 1992 15:27:36 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <dfs.712330327@ro> dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:
>In <84588@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P
>Wiener) writes:
>>In article <dfs.712284318@data>, dfs@doe (David F. Skoll) writes:

#>>>Let me see.  Conservative and Reform Jews DON'T think they're right?
#
#>>Sure they do.  But they *don't* say that Orthodox are wrong.
#
#>That is certainly a lie.
#
#Please give examples of official positions from Reform or Conservative
#leadership which state that Orthodoxy is wrong.  (I'm not talking about
#individuals; as someone else pointed out, there are intolerant people
#in every group.)

You might start with "Liberal Judaism" by Borowitz, who is certainly a
leader of the Reform movement.  One reason why I couldn't get through the
book was because of the nasty and completely unwarranted things he said about
Orthodox Judaism.

One also might argue that "Gates of Mitzvah" states that Orthodoxy is wrong,
at least by implication, since in discussing the origin of Mitzvah, they
never seem to consider very seriously the implications of the possibility
that the Orthodox position might be correct.  That is to say, it's pretty
obvious from a reading of "Gates of Mitzvah" that none of the things listed
as mitzvot are actually considered required in the sense that Orthodox Judaism
considers mitzvot requirements.  It seems to me that that's a pretty clear
implication that the CCAR thinks that Orthodoxy is wrong.

					Richard Schultz
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: What is Jewish religion? (long...)
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:43:58 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <9207240050.AA26910@ptms_dev.sbi.com> <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)> writes:
>hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
>>Where does it state in the Written Torah that circumcision is to be performed
>>by a mohel?

>It need not be stated.  A mohel is one who performs milah.  Do we
>need the Torah to state that speaking is to be performed by a speaker?

But this merely states that whoever performs a circumcision is a mohel!
Does one have to certify a speaker?
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Computer Jobs in Israel - an initiative by Jacob Richman (Part 1 - 258 lines)
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 06:43:13 GMT

VINER%BGUVM.bitnet@TAUNIVM.TAU.AC.IL (Dov Winer) writes:


>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 13:44:40 +0300
>From: warren@itexjct.jct.ac.il (Warren Burstein)
>Message-Id: <9207291044.AA21801@itexjct.jct.ac.il>
>To: jo@ilncrd.bitnet, viner@bguvm.bgu.ac.il, heasif@shum.huji.ac.il
>Subject: a message from Jacob Richman

>Jacob Richman (jrichman@itexjct.jct.ac.il) can't send mail, asked me
>to send this to you.  Looks to me like he's doing something useful
>which ought to get out on the computer somehow.  Anyone have any
>suggestions?
(....)
>On Monday morning on the way to work, or Monday evening I can drop the
>pages off for someone to type them into a system. By Tuesday, Israelis,
>Olim,potential Olim will see there really are jobs in Israel (in real-
>time). 
        GREAT !
        And HOW will they see?
        Oh, of course, it will be in the Tuesday newspapers.
        Where it was already available on Friday !
        Or, perhaps, via some other medium.
        But will newpapers keep printing ads, and employers pay for them,
        for ONE reader alltogether, the one who cuts before pasting?

                                    Yaaqov Goldberg, Prof, Technion

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Death Penalty & Jewish Law
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Distribution: na
Date: 31 Jul 92 05:35:09 GMT

m = markr@mot.com (Mark)
ml = lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax)

ml: And what about "Thou Shalt Not Kill"?  Last time I checked, _that_
ml: came from the Bible, too.

m: In the original hebrew, it uses the phrase 'Lo Tirtzach' (murder)
m: and not the phrase 'Lo Taharog' (kill).

m: You must have last checked a really long time ago to mix the two up.

He probably read it in English translation.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire hall		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very publishing house carrot.
 |warren@      But the farmer
/ nysernet.org is not all that paranoid.