HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: atchampion@cudnvr.denver.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
Subject: Re: Health
Date: 20 Nov 92 13:05:21 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.221616.24113@inmet.camb.inmet.com>, mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur) writes:
> In article <98383@netnews.upenn.edu> crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
>>Just went to the doctor today ... I'm a shade over 200 pounds, and my
>>blood pressure is 117 over 70.  8-)  Take THAT, medical industry!
> 
> I don't mean to be unsupportive, really I don't, but does anyone besides
> me see a flaw in the logic of statements like this?  My sister is grossly
> obese (300+) and I was close to that.  Both of us have cholesterol levels 
> and blood pressures that you normally expect in healthy people.  But...we 
> are both relatively young (20s-30s).
> 
> I'm not sure which is more correct--that one can be fat and healthy, or
> that the health risks of obesity accumulate over a lifetime.  I mean, to me
> this sounds a bit like a teenager who said "hey look, a pack of cigs a day 
> and my lungs are still clear!"
> 
> I don't advocate that everyone struggle their whole life to be thinner
> than they can be.  But I'm not sure it's safe to assume that one's health
> isn't compromised by obesity because we're healthy at a relatively young age.
> 
> Just something to think about (and flame me to a crisp-fried, crackly-crunch
> I suppose).
> 
> Beth Mazur                   "...life is more than a vision.  The sweetest
> mazur@inmet.inmet.com         part is acting after making a decision."
> ...!uunet!inmet!mazur                                  -- The Indigo Girls

   As far as health and obesity are concerned, no one has ever PROVEN that 
obesity is fatally harmful to one's health and that they will die early.
For that matter, what is "dying early"? Most of the information on health
and obesity is obtained through statistical studies. As a mathematician,
I've seen that statistics are one of the most abused tools in science today
and it really makes me sick.
   A man dies from a heart attack and it so happens that he was overweight.
Well did he die because he was overweight? How do we know that he didn't
already have some other disease, or that he died of natural causes, or that
he got hit by a truck which so happened to cause the heart attack? These are
things many statistical studies don't show us.

   This is not a flame, just bitching.

   Wanna read a good book? "Fat is Not a Four-Letter Word" by Charles Roy 
Schroeder. It's great stuff.





->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->

"Yes, but there's soooo much more of them to love."
From: beh@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu (various Howellses)
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
Subject: Re: My first issue of BBW
Date: 18 Nov 92 20:52:22
Organization: Internet access via the Free Software Foundation
NNTP-Posting-Host: kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu
In-reply-to: nadel@attatash.aero.org's message of 17 Nov 92 20:39:47 GMT


What I really hate is the fact that everything seems to be in polyester.  I
have been shopping through Roaman's and Lane Bryant (the catalogue and the
store) and I just HATE!!!!!!! polyester.  Why can't there be more cottons?
Why can't the silk shirts they have at Lane Bryant (the store) come in a
bigger size than a smallish 28?  Why is it a *smallish* 28?  Why are the
silk shirts in the catalogue plain, and not like the ones in the store?
THEY go up to larger sizes....and so on and so forth.  I would KILL for a
pretty black velvet dress, something with a bare neck and back, but can I
find one?  Nope.

And why do they insist on putting the white lace dresses in the winter
cataloges instead of the summer catalogues?

And what about a wedding/formal wear catalogue that coes up to sizes higher
than 22-24?

*sigh*

*frustrated sigh*
--
If it's me, it's not the other one.  If it's the other one, it's not me.
But then again, we're basically one and the same... oh bother, we're
--Various Howellses (Bruce and/or Nancy)
beh@gnu.ai.mit.edu
From: sapphire@wings.micro.umn.edu (Theresa Jarosz Alberti)
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
Subject: Re: My first issue of BBW/fat buttons
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:35:59 GMT
Organization: Authors with Twins
X-Xxdate: Wed, 18 Nov 92 10:58:42 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7

In article <1992Nov18.142148.27487@news2.cis.umn.edu> Jill Hollifield,
jill@gopher.ccbr.umn.edu writes:
>P.S. Just had to share an experience with you.  Over the weekend, I was
>at our local feminist/lesbian bookstore picking up my Fall copy of
>Radiance, and while digging through the political buttons (looking
>for one with the pink triangle that says "Straight but Not Narrow" -
>anyone know where I can find one?) I came across one that says "Fat
>Can Be Beautiful".  I took a deep breath, and pinned it to my coat (after
>paying for it of course!  :) )  I'm sick of comments on the street, and
>didn't know if this would be an open invitation for more.  But the
>response has been great!  The most negative thing that's happened is
>one store clerk just stared at it and then rolled her eyes.  For the
>most part, it creates smiles, laughs, an occasional "All right!",
>and one man who stopped me and said "That's so true, I love bigger
>women, you all are *real* women!"  I'm having a lot of fun with it.

Hooray for you for buying it and wearning it!  I think it is a very brave
thing to do, one I'm not so sure I could do myself (I feel a little
relieved to not have seen a button like this yet, so I don't have to
challenge myself yet)!

I would never have expected the responses you've had from wearing the
button.  Maybe the world isn't so entirely screwed up as I'd thought!


>
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
From: avery@netcom.com (Avery Ray Colter)
Subject: Re: A few thoughts and opinions on BBW and Radiance
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:19:23 GMT

Radiance's address is

PO Box 30246
Oakland, CA 94604
(510) 482-0680

They might send you a copy (tell 'em Avery sent you ;) ).
Otherwise, I know that Alice Ansfield brings copies of Radiance
or authorizes a few copies to be taken to NAAFA regional and national cons.

Subscription price is $15/1yr, $25/2yrs in USA, $20 and $35 in Canada,
$23 and $41 in other countries, with our very own 8.25% tax in California.

A mag well worth the couple hours of wages.

-- 
Avery Ray Colter ("Elfcat") - 	avery@netcom.netcom.com (IP 192.100.81.100)
(510) 656-1902 
"Heaviness is the root of lightness; calmness is the controller of haste"
From: jill@gopher.ccbr.umn.edu (Jill Hollifield)
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
Subject: Re: My first issue of BBW
Date: 18 Nov 92 14:21:48 GMT
Organization: Coordinating Centers For Biometric Research, University of Minnesota

In article <1992Nov17.203947.3260@speedy.aero.org> nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel) writes:
>
>What we really need is more of a department store type store.  There
>would be a suit department so I could finally find the perfect hunter green
>wool flannel suit to wear to work.  There would be a department of sort of
>preppyish pale pink blouses and sweaters for Marcia.  Jessica McClintock
>type romantic floral print dresses for Lauren.  A department of dressy
>dresses that weren't all in black, white and pastels.  (I like black but
>And a shoe department with lots of nice comfortable flats :-)
>
>Miriam Nadel
>
And a big section of comfy, casual knits in neutrals and jewel tones -
oversized t-shirts, jerseys, leggings, minis, jackets . . .

And comfortable jeans in every style and color . . .

And an underwear dept. with everything from sexy garter belts and
stockings to big fluffy terry cloth robes that don't cost an arm
and a leg, and will last more than a year . . .

Is it only my experience, or do large-size women's clothes seem to
be getting more and more expensive for less and less quality?

Jill

P.S. Just had to share an experience with you.  Over the weekend, I was
at our local feminist/lesbian bookstore picking up my Fall copy of
Radiance, and while digging through the political buttons (looking
for one with the pink triangle that says "Straight but Not Narrow" -
anyone know where I can find one?) I came across one that says "Fat
Can Be Beautiful".  I took a deep breath, and pinned it to my coat (after
paying for it of course!  :) )  I'm sick of comments on the street, and
didn't know if this would be an open invitation for more.  But the
response has been great!  The most negative thing that's happened is
one store clerk just stared at it and then rolled her eyes.  For the
most part, it creates smiles, laughs, an occasional "All right!",
and one man who stopped me and said "That's so true, I love bigger
women, you all are *real* women!"  I'm having a lot of fun with it.
From: nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel)
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
Subject: Re: A few thoughts and opinions on BBW and Radiance
Date: 16 Nov 92 20:45:44 GMT
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization


I read Radiance regularly (in fact, I subscribe to it) and I think it's a 
great magazine.  I don't love every article in it, but for the most part
I enjoy the contents.  I've even recommended it to thin women for the 
articles on women who are accomplishing things.

I pick up BBW at the newstand every now and then.  Too much of it reminds me
of the sort of fashion magazines I outgrew by the time I was in college.
I find their fiction particularly annoying - reminiscent of Harlequin
romances (which I consider appropriate reading only for airplanes, where
I can leave them behind without caring).  Their models are as small as size
12.  Now, I recognize that samples come in limited sizes, but they don't
seem to be fighting this enough.  I have to admit that my sense of style is
somewhat different from most of what I see in BBW - I have yet to see
anything there that I could reasonably wear to work and there's little 
that's weird enough for me to wear for play.  Still, I do feel that I ought
to support them, that BBW does help a lot of people, and that every now and
then they have an article that's on the mark.  So a few times a year, I
find myself adding a copy to my newspaper, puzzle magazines (I am hopelessly
addicted to Dell Logic Puzzles!) and odds and ends at the magazine rack.

Miriam Nadel
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
Subject: My first issue of BBW
Date: 16 Nov 92 20:16:18 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

Last night I picked up "BBW" -- November issue -- for the first time.  I'd
never heard of it until reading this group.  

It was interesting ... though I definitely didn't find the vast majority
of the models very big.  Maybe by Vogue model standards, but not by real
life standards.  The lingerie models in particular were unreal -- not a
bulge anywhere, flat tummies, etc.  

I appreciated a couple of the articles, though (didn't read the "men who
love them" one), about size acceptance and foot problems (since I'm
currently suffering from those).  

One beef, though this one isn't with BBW per se:  Why is most clothing for
large women in super-bright colors with bold geometric patterns?  I look
lousy in that stuff.  With my coloring, I need more subtle colors, and I
prefer either a more classic look or something floral and "old fashioned."
Most of the stuff I see in BBW-type stores is cluttered up with sequins,
lame', rhinestones, fringe, and colors that would stop traffic.  Hope I
don't offend anyone with this, but it looks to me like gay men designing
clothes for women on their way to the casinos in Atlantic City.  That's a
legitimate market, I'm sure, but what about the rest of us?  

Back to BBW:  While I wasn't all that impressed with the magazine itself,
it was refreshing to read something from such a different angle.  It was
also great to read a woman's magazine that didn't have a single diet in
it.  Wonderful!

 

-- 
The trick of reason is to get the imagination to seize the actual world --
if only from time to time.     -- Annie Dillard, "An American Childhood"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
From: avery@netcom.com (Avery Ray Colter)
Subject: Re: You've lost weight! -- Grrrrrrr
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:40:31 GMT

A familiar little elf, lurking close enough to overhear these others'
exclamations, raises his eyebrows, gives you a once over, and says,
"Nahhhhhh, you're just as fat as you've always been. You're just showing
it off in a better way."

Course, that might be too far in the honest direction eh?

Seriously, I always was perplexed by this theory that wearing dark colors
would make women look thinner. I just never saw it. A fat women who wore
black would look like the night sky. If she wore dark blue, the ocean.
Which is not to say negative things - the night sky and the ocean are
very romantic after all. Similarly though, when I hear some large women
shunning dark colors because of a perception that they're "subduing",
that's not quite right either, because I've seen some VERY provocative
fashions in black, and as for blue - well, anyone ever hear the song
"Devil With the Blue Dress On"?

-- 
Avery Ray Colter ("Elfcat") - 	avery@netcom.netcom.com (IP 192.100.81.100)
(510) 656-1902 
"Heaviness is the root of lightness; calmness is the controller of haste"
From: beh@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu (various Howellses)
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
Subject: Re: A few thoughts and opinions on BBW and Radiance
Date: 15 Nov 92 18:58:02
Organization: Internet access via the Free Software Foundation
NNTP-Posting-Host: kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu
In-reply-to: Theresa Jarosz Alberti's message of Fri, 13 Nov 1992 22:26:31 GMT


Two questions:
1.  How can I get a copy of Radiance?  I've not seen it on the newsstands,
even though I've looked a few times.
2.  Which issue of BBW had the "where to find large-sized clothes" list?  I
just bought the November '92 issue, and it didn't have squat, particularly
for out here in the east.

Ok.. I lied, third question coming:
3.  If someone has the above-mentioned list, could I ask them to e-mail me?


Thank you!

--Nancy Howells
(beh@gnu.ai.mit.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
From: nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel)
Subject: Re: My first issue of BBW
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:39:47 GMT

In article <97870@netnews.upenn.edu> crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
>One beef, though this one isn't with BBW per se:  Why is most clothing for
>large women in super-bright colors with bold geometric patterns?  I look
>lousy in that stuff.  With my coloring, I need more subtle colors, and I
>prefer either a more classic look or something floral and "old fashioned."
>Most of the stuff I see in BBW-type stores is cluttered up with sequins,
>lame', rhinestones, fringe, and colors that would stop traffic.  

I haven't seen much difference between what's in the large-size stores and
what's in other stores in terms of color.  It frustrates me in the seasons
when they're showing pastels, which I look awful in.  I could live without
fringe, ruffles, lace, and rhinestones (except on the dressiest stuff) though
and I wish I saw more sequins and feathers, personally.  Jewel tones work
best on me, but this is a matter of coloring and has nothing to do with
size.

What we really need is more of a department store type store.  There
would be a suit department so I could finally find the perfect hunter green
wool flannel suit to wear to work.  There would be a department of sort of
preppyish pale pink blouses and sweaters for Marcia.  Jessica McClintock
type romantic floral print dresses for Lauren.  A department of dressy
dresses that weren't all in black, white and pastels.  (I like black but
I went through a lot to find a dress to wear to a wedding.  I eventually
did end up with a very plain royal blue dress trimmed with bands of sequins,
but it took me 3 or 4 shopping trips.)  

And a shoe department with lots of nice comfortable flats :-)

Miriam Nadel

Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
From: mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur)
Subject: Re: Health
Organization: Intermetrics Inc, Cambridge MA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:10:27 GMT

In article <98515@netnews.upenn.edu> crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
>The threat of bad health, however, still isn't going to take the pounds
>off permanently in someone who is eating compulsively for emotional
>reasons.  In posting what I did, I was basically crowing a bit and
>expressing my happiness that I didn't have high blood pressure.  I think
>that's wonderful, and I'm thrilled.  

I agree!  I just wanted to point out that having one "good" health factor
does not a healthy person make.  I will try and make a point of posting
the health factors risk assessment that I took while I was on the fast.
This is a relatively standardized test that considers several things:
weight, blood lipid levels, diet (e.g. veggies and carbos consumed), 
exercise, and so on.

I suspect that Lauren would score very highly--personally, I think her current
plan and mine are not as far apart as she might think.  As she suggests,
it is possible to be "healthy" and overweight.  But I think it would be
prudent for everyone to consider their overall health, and not just one
factor.  For example, having low blood cholesterol levels (one factor)
does not make one "healthy" any more than being overweight (one factor)
makes one "unhealthy." 

Beth Mazur                   "...life is more than a vision.  The sweetest
mazur@inmet.inmet.com         part is acting after making a decision."
...!uunet!inmet!mazur                                  -- The Indigo Girls
From: mberteig@cco.caltech.edu (Michelle Berteig)
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
Subject: Re: A few thoughts and opinions on BBW and Radiance
Date: 16 Nov 1992 02:47:31 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

Hi,

The December issue of BBW is the one with the article "Life after
size 26W" and the resource list.  If I can dig it up, maybe I will
type it in...

--Michelle Berteig
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
Subject: Article in Allure magazine
Date: 20 Nov 92 23:06:33 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

A friend lent me this magazine called "Allure."  I have all but given up
looking at magazines like this, and was about to chuck it, when I read the
editor's column.  Listen to what she says:

"There is a picture of me on the wall in my parents' house.  I'm at my
school's May Day celebration.  It is a perfect spring day; I'm wearing a
white dress with ribbons.  I'm smiling, and my face is as round as a wheel
of Brie.  I am fat -- not Roseanne Arnold fat, just 17-year-old,
girls'school, field-hockey pudge.

"Since May Day 1976, I've become a walking diet encycolpedia.  The margins
of my copy of Ulysses from college are covered with notes:  Breakfast,
bran muffin, 150 calories; lunch, four saltines, two pickles, 58 calories;
dinner, two baked potatoes, 200 calories; total 408.  (I remember more
about those meals than about Leopold Bloom's journey.)  I've lost weight,
regained it, and lost it again.  And then I've tried to wash my mind of
calorie counts, the taste of Tab, the lessons of Herman Tarnower, and the
guilt.

"We all know the statistics: that about 90 percent of those who go on
diets end up gaining most of the weight they've lost, and often some more.
 That being on a diet creates all kinds of nuttiness that can end in
serious eating disorders.  The best solution for all of us is to try to be
normal: to eat when we're hungry, to stop when we're full, and to replace
obsession with other, nobler pursuits.

"One organization is aiming to cure women of dieting and the self-hatred
that goes along with it.  At a meeting of Overcoming Overeating, women
learn to come to grips with the idea that they may never be thin.  So they
practice things like standing naked in front of a mirror and accepting
their bodies.  They throw out their bathroom scales (and at the doctor's
office, stand with their backs to the numbers).  They try to distinguish
between real hunger and "mouth hunger" in hopes of abolishing compulsive
eating.  These techniques may not sound like much, but as one group leader
says, they require "a tremendous amount of courage."

"As for me, I've forgotten how many calories are in an Oreo, even though I
still feel like a minor criminal whenever I eat one.  I'm off structured
diets -- and I've sworn never to print one in Allure.  It's a start.  As
the leader of Overcoming Overeating says, 'Maybe it's possible to become
so accepting of ourselves that we may not think about being thin.'  What a
lovely thought."

Whoa!  I had to look at the cover again to make sure I wasn't reading Big
Beautiful Woman magazine.  If the fashion industry and the media start
wising up, we may actually get somewhere!  


-- 
The trick of reason is to get the imagination to seize the actual world --
if only from time to time.     -- Annie Dillard, "An American Childhood"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
From: sapphire@wings.micro.umn.edu (Theresa Jarosz Alberti)
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
Subject: Re: Buying jeans
Date: 23 Nov 92 20:40:18 GMT
Organization: Authors with Twins
X-Xxdate: Mon, 23 Nov 92 09:03:13 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7

My husband recently set me up using a different computer and system, so
I've had a little trouble lately figuring out how to send messages here. 
I noticed my original post  on buying jeans was empty, so let me try
again here.  I think I've got it figured out now!

I was wondering if anyone else had trouble buying jeans.  Most jeans seem
to be styled towards apple-shaped people (carrying weight in their
abdomen) whereas I'm more pear-shaped (carrying weight in the hips and
thighs).  I found a pair of jeans at Lane Bryant a few years back that
had elastic sewn into the waistband and these fit me well.  Now Lane
Bryant no longer carries this style (and I've not seen it elsewhere). 
They carry stretch jeans that have no stretch to the waist-- so if I buy
a size to fit my derierre, I get a waist-line that's rediculously baggy.

I wish I'd have bought more than one pair years ago!

Has anyone seen jeans in stores or catalogs similar to what I'm
describing?  Or does anyone else have similar troubles?

Thanks!

Theresa
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
From: davis@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Barbara Davis)
Subject: Re: Appreciation of the big & beautiful woman
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 02:24:00 GMT

avery@netcom.com (Avery Ray Colter) writes:

>nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel) writes:


>>One thing to keep in mind is that not everybody is particularly visual.
>>I've noticed that most of the men who I've gotten involved with are
>>highly kinesthetic.  Their primary mode of sensual interaction is touch.
>>I find such men appealing because they tend to be good at casual physical
>>affection. Which I find amazingly romantic.

>Well, I personally have a theory that men who claim a preference for big women
>are highly tactile by nature. Whether this actually holds water I'm not sure,
>but you have to admit it makes sense.

Very interesting theory...  Both men I am dating love the touch of skin on
skin.  They are very warm and affectionate, as am I.

Barb
-- 
Barbara G. Davis                       Internet:  davis@ucsu.colorado.edu
University of Colorado, Boulder 

                   If I don't ask, you can't say, "Yes!".