HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: poli2031@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: International Camp Staff Program
Date: 7 Apr 92 10:11:31 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <1992Apr6.004901.2595@muddcs.claremont.edu>, jallen@jarthur.claremont.edu (Jeff R. Allen) writes:
> Could you post more info about the International Camp Staff program?  I
> remember hearing about it once, and I'd be interested to see if I
> 
> 1) Qualify
> 
> and
> 
> 2) Could afford it. (Camp staff tends to pay less/cost more than working
>    at a _real_ job over the summer... :)     )
> 
The BSA International Camp Staff Program is for International Scouts or
Scouters to work in BSA summer camps for about 3 months and follow by
independent touring of US or on a 10 days hospitality tour.  I do not know if
this program is still organised by BSA.

Any other scout leaders out of US who had experienced working in US scout
summer camps could exchange their views on their experiences with me.  I had
also worked in the British National Cub Scouts National Days back in the early
80s.
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: B.S.A. Belief in God Requirement (and UW)
Date: 16 Apr 92 02:59:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Summit NJ

>
>>The Boy Scouts also tend to want their boys to (gasp) say the pledge
>>of allegiance.  The pledge of allegiance says (gaps), one nation
>>under GOD, indivisable, with liberty and justice for all.
>
>Please note, however, that the words "under God" were added but
>recently (sometime in the 70s, as I recall).  Although I never
>personally say the Pledge, were I to I would be silent for those two
>words, or omit them altogether if I was saying it alone.

Actually "under God" was added in 1954.  It was one of the first
things my second grade teacher had to teach us when school
started in September, 1954.
-- 
Stan Krieger                     All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
AT&T UNIX System Laboratories    if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: bfmadore@daisy.waterloo.edu (Blair Madore)
Subject: Re: World Brotherhood Camporee
Keywords: Great Camp!
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 03:00:28 GMT

In article <5APR199201170834@vtcc1.cc.vt.edu> ae313406@vtcc1.cc.vt.edu (Vance Kochenderfer) writes:
>
>        Anyone out there been to the World Brotherhood Camporee on
>the US/Canada border?  Unfortunately, I haven't been for the last

I was there with my old group 283rd West Agincourt (Toronto) in 
1988 (or was it 89...). Anyways it was a very fun weekend.
Our boys really enjoyed meeting so many other scouts and patch
trading is (for many) just an excuse to talk. 

I must say that the whole camp was rather sedentary compared to our usual
camps. The televised campfire with professional entertainment was fun
but not what I had come to expect from scouting.

When I went there were 3000+ campers so it's a great way to go to
an inexpensive international camp.

Blair Madore
5th Waterloo Scouts
bfmadore@daisy.waterloo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: whs70@dancer.uucp (24411-sohl)
Subject: Re: It'd Be A Shame
Reply-To: whs70@dancer.UUCP ()
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 18:41:55 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.175258.13475@m.cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>whs70@dancer.uucp (24411-sohl) writes:
>
>[...]
>> If as you claim it is that clearcut, then why
>>does UW continue its funding of BSA?
>[...]
>
>From the Chicago Tribune, Midwest Edition, Sept. 30, 1990, section 1, p. 16:
>
>"The Genoa-Kinstong United Way announced Saturday it has reversed an
>earlier 'premature' decision and will fund the local Boy Scouts, evne
>though athiests charge religious discrimination.
>
>Though refusing to address the issue directly, Jim Ferris, chairman of
>the local board, hinted that the United Way had come under pressure
>from pro-Scout donors at a time it could least afford such controversy
>-- the start of the charity's annual champaign.  ..."
>
>I think the reason that this did not come up before is that before
>1990 many people (even many scoutmasters) did not understand BSA
>policy.
>
>Now we are in a situation where the UW would rather violate its
>principles than offend. And the BSA keeps asking for money that it is
>not entitled to. Perhaps the BSA should replace "honest" with
>"expedient".

As you point out, it is UW that is violating or ignoring its own
principles.  Nothing in the above indicates any misrepresentation 
by the BSA to UW.  In fact, it was NOT BSA that pressured UW to
continue its funding of BSA, it was the UW donor population.

So why does BSA accept financial support from UW?
Because it need not question the merits or intents or reasons
of any doner.  If I make a donation to any organization, I do not
need to explain my reasons for doing so.  I have yet to be rejected
by any organization (the phrase, all donations gratefully accepted
seems to be most applicable.)

It, therefore, seems to me that this running thread of complaint
about UW giving financial support to BSA is misdirected at BSA.
I suggest you take the complaint to UW, if they don't want to
chnage their donation process or answer your complaint/query
then I see no validity to any complaint about BSA accepting UW funds.

Standard Disclaimer- Any opinions, etc. are mine and NOT my employer's.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Sohl (K2UNK) BELLCORE (Bell Communications Research, Inc.)
Morristown, NJ             email via UUCP      bcr!dancer!whs70
201-829-2879 Weekdays      email via Internet  whs70@dancer.cc.bellcore.com
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: rcashman@cs.ulowell.edu (The Jester)
Subject: Re: Wow, isn't that A Shame
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 18:14:24 GMT


In article <1992Apr16.053107.23209@en.ecn.purdue.edu> you know.. writes:
>
>Yep, I guess "Mr" Cashman wouldn't have the guts to go on....

"Go on" with what?  Life?  Oh, I think I would.  You underestimate me,
Tom.  You don't know the first thing about me or my background, so
take your bullshit judgements and stick them up your ass.  In my
earlier years, I lived in a section of the country where I had friends
and neighbors killed because of their beliefs.  One of my best boy-
hood friends was killed because he refused to deal drugs for the
neighborhood scumbags.  I myself came pretty close to ending up in
a bodybag more than once.  And yes, Tom, I am an Eagle Scout, like
yourself.  And yes, Tom, I "went on" with my life, after watching
neighbors lose their jobs because they wouldn't pay protection
money to the local gangs.  Not only did these people lose their jobs,
but, more often than not, they ended up crippled or dead.


>Oh, "Mr" Cashman, what was that about "keeping your beliefs to yourself"
>you also mentioned in your post? Would it be possible to keep your
>warped, twisted and sick beliefs out of the BSA? Hmmm?


Warped, twisted, and sick beliefs, Tom?  All I asked the gentleman was
to stop getting into "one-upsmanship" battles, and not to judge me and
the rest of the members of the BSA.  He does not know me, so his judge-
ment is without factual basis.  I said to him that, if he was going to
insist on judging me without knowing me or anything about me, then he
should keep his judgements to himself because they were inflammatory
and presumtuous.

So, Tom, take your little mind and indulge it elsewhere.  If the only
reason you continue to subscribe to this newsgroup is to flame people
who don't agree with your twisted little slice of reality, then you
waste good bandwidth with your self-righteous bullshit.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brett Cashman (The Jester)			    	rcashman@cs.ulowell.edu

"There's a place I like to hide,
 A doorway that I run through in the night."		- Geoff Tate
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: bones@u36.uucp (Lance Sibley)
Subject: Re: Proposal? (girls, atheists, sexuality)
Organization: U36 Research
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 22:34:33 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.073816.5958@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) writes:
>
>SCOUT LAW
>
>12.  A SCOUT IS REVERENT.  He is reverent toward God.  He is faithful
>in his religious duties, and respects the convictions of others in
                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>matters of custom and religion.
^^^^^^^^^^^            ^^^^^^^^

I find this *very* interesting. If I am an atheist, should the Scouts
not respect my conviction in this?

-- 
Lance A. Sibley     "Sybok! This Sybok is a madman!"
Waterloo, Ontario   "Not so, Captain; in fact, he has cured me of my delusion
bones@u36.uucp       that I was Shirley MacLaine in a previous life."
                          - Kirk/Caitlin Dar, "Star Trek V: The Funny Frontier"
From: jce@cs.scarolina.edu (James C. Evans)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: It'd Be A Shame
Date: 6 Apr 92 12:15:39 GMT
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science

dpfabie@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (David Paul Fabie) writes:

>The BSA does not discriminate on the basis of religion,
>we discriminate on the basis of a lack of religion.  All that the BSA 
>asks is that its members hold a belief in God, whether that god is Allah
>or Jesus or the great blue crystal in the corner of your bedroom makes
>no difference.  The idea that there is a higher power to which we as
>beings of concious, were created by.  That's all.

I didn't realize that BSA attributes to "God" any particular properties,
such as that "God" is a "being", or that "God" has actually done anything
in particular.  Am I wrong about this?

Chris Evans
jce@ocean.geol.scarolina.edu
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: jwilson@hartree.cs.colorado.edu (John Wilson)
Subject: Re: B.S.A. Belief in God Requirement (and UW)
Followup-To: rec.scouting
Summary: pledge of allegiance, god
Keywords: n
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 07:34:37 GMT

My source is the scout manual for the Pope Pius XII religous emblem.

Don't flame me for my source it just happened to be handy and I knew it
was in there.
From: ditto
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Boy, wouldn't THAT be a shame?
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:37:31 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Apr14.133347.23005@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> mpb@troy.uucp (27331-bunz) writes:
>Well, it looks like the United Way in San Fransisco has given their
>local Councils the boot.  Is it time to put some pressure on them by
>withholding donations to other United Way Chapters, and giving directly
>to your local council, to see if they can change the San Fransisco Chapter's
>mind?

Just a thought - we could all write National instead, and see if we can
get the discriminatory policies that caused the United Way to withdraw
funding eliminated. Then, I'm sure the UW would be more than happy to
resume funds for the SF area Boy Scout troops.

Thomas Cronin
Eagle Scout

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 ______    Thomas Cronin         "Extinction is not something to contemplate;
(______)   CEE/Theatre Eng.       rather, it is something to rebel against."
   ||      Purdue University      from _The_Fate_of_the_Earth_ by J. Schell
   ||               "Trinitrotoluene is an educational toy." - me
-=NUKE=-      cronin@en.ecn.purdue.edu or fester@minuet.cc.purdue.edu
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:901 alt.atheism:8371
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: B.S.A. Belief in God Requirement
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:59:22 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL

hayes@ddemo3.aero.org (Brian Hayes 74-35 x65129) writes:

[...]
>I do not recall the news story, but I would like to write this:  The 
>BSA-atheist incident could have been avoided if the people involved 
>had been a bit more thoughtful (particularly a bit wiser).  I see
>it as a case of stubborn kids and supportive but foolish parents.  It would
>have been nice if a scout master or scout executive had explained to them 
>that "It isn't what you believe..."
[...]

For a person who doesn't believe in God, to swear to God, is to lie.
Would you swear to Zeus? Would you promise to be reverent when you are
not?

I read what you wrote as: "I see it as a case of kids who will not lie
and supportive but foolish parents. It would have been nice if a scout
master or scout executive had explained to them that 'It is OK to lie'."

- Carl


--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: dbader@eng.umd.edu (David A. Bader)
Subject: Re: Vigil Honor in the OA...
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 92 13:39:56 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park
Originator: dbader@mountaindew.eng.umd.edu


In article <1992Apr8.053151.25031@afterlife.ncsc.mil>, smb@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Steve M. Burinsky) writes:

>As a former NE-5A chief, I have to take exception to that!  Don't you think
>that's a bit pretentious?  I have been active with Delmont Lodge #43 for
>15 years and don't think that I would single out any one of the old or new
>NE-5A lodges as the "leader".

I don't mean to step on your toes, but in my recollection, and from what I have personally
seen at conclaves in section NE-4a and NE-5a from 1982 to the present, my lodge has 
consistently been strong in inductions.  We were the first to use the elangomat system in our
section, whereas a majority of the others still do not.  And even a few of the other lodges
using elangomats really just have glorified "task masters".  We eliminated hazing swiftly and
sternly, whereas some of the others *still* brag about what they do to their candidates. 
Also, my lodge is large in size, with roughly 1200 active members a year.  We induct
approximately 400 new ordeal candidates a year, 75 new Brotherhood, and 16 new Vigil Honor.
Our brotherhood conversion is still a little below 30%, but that seems to be changing as we
eliminate the 'dead wood' from our membership records as they are becoming computerized..
(Bookkeeping is not a trivial matter.)  My lodge normally has the largest delegation at
conclaves, due to our membership size.  I know we need help in certain areas, but we are
*one* of the top lodges in the section.. That does not mean to say we are the *best*.
Everyone needs to constantly re-evaluate their own situation and improve upon it.

Thank you for replying.  I appreciate it very much.

 peace,
 --david

Maryland Address:                Permanent Address:
David A. Bader                   David A. Bader
48 Avonshire Court               1402 Lorain Avenue
Silver Spring, MD 20904          Bethlehem, Pa  18018
(301) 680-3616                   (215) 868-1311

Internet: dbader@eng.umd.edu
From: jka@math.ufl.edu (Jon K. Akers)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: A scout from HK
Date: 2 Apr 92 19:17:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: poincare.JKA.92Apr2141718
Organization: University of Florida Department of Mathematics

In article <1992Mar25.074350.16751@watdragon.waterloo.edu> ylnwai@dahlia.waterloo.edu (Newton Wai) writes:

	   Really surprise me when I found that a newsgroup on Scouting is being
   set up! I used to be a scout when I was in Hong Kong, but I left my troop
   in the summer of 1988 after I came over to Canada. Well, I can say I was one of
   the "laziest" scout I ever known, and I have forgetten most of the things I 
   learn during my 5 years of scouting. However, being a scout is so important to
   me : I have learned to deal with people, and some of my best friends in life
   where my fellow members of the Scout Troop. 

	   While reading this newsgroup, I found terms that I've never heard in HK
   like "Eagle Scout" and "BSA". Can anyone explain that to me ? Thanx a lot.

							   Newton Wai
	   Venture Air Scout Unit (or as we call ourselves, "VASU" )
						   11th Kowloon Group, Hong Kong 

Sure. I'll be happy to. An Eagle Scout is the highest rank that can be
achieved in the Boy Scouts of America (BSA). The other ranks are (in
order from lowest to highest): Boy Scout, Tenderfoot, Second Class,
First Class, Star, Life, and Eagle. An Eagle Scout also has the chance
at getting "bars" added to his rank for achieving more within the
Scout system. It has always annoyed me that there is a rank 'Boy
Scout' in the BSA system, since the handbook also states that you are
considered a Boy Scout no matter what your rank is. Ah well, you can't
go through life without *some* inconsistencies.  :)
--
###########################################################################
#  Jon Akers                      "...realize you're living in your       #
#  jka@math.ufl.edu                golden years..."                       #
#  SILVERFIRE%oak.decnet@pine.circa.ufl.edu                               #
###########################################################################
#  Try MudDog mud at mud.math.ufl.edu 2000 (128.227.168.2)	    	  #
###########################################################################
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: pfleming@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Patrick E Fleming)
Subject: Re: Eagle Court of Honor Question
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 14:09:52 GMT

Stan Krieger writes:

>I know that at Courts of Honor, congratulations letters from big
>shots, like the President and the Pope, are read.  How are such
>letters requested and who notifies whom and how?  In short, what
>is the process for getting or soliciting such letters?

I'd suggest sending an invitation to the president, senators and 
congressperson.  That should ilicit a response even if they do have to decline 
due to other obligations.

     - pat
.
-- 
- Patrick E. Fleming ------------------------------------------------------
- Department of Chemistry --- I'm looking for the spirit of a great heart -
- The Ohio State University ----------- Guk a 'mzimba Sala 'nhliziyo ------
- pfleming@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu --------------------------------------
From: mcbeanb@brandonu.ca
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: It'd Be A Shame
Date: 6 Apr 92 23:15:27 GMT
Organization: Brandon University, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

In article <1992Mar26.154813.8381@infonode.ingr.com>, grs@infonode.ingr.com (Gary Smith) writes:
> It would be a shame to have this group, so recently formed,
> collapse under the weight of the traffic in junk messages.
> 
> I'm not saying that the issues relating to BSA's position on
> homosexuality and atheism aren't relevant, but I'd guess that
> many of us voted FOR this group for reasons other than getting a
> daily dose of whinning from a vocal group of minority activists.
> 
> I can't deal with 100+ messages a day in a group that will
> probably quiet down to 25 to 40/day on scouting.
> 
> Take your social and moral concerns elsewhere PLEASE.

So what you're saying is that scouts don't care about social and moral
concerns, particularily the ones directly relate to scouts??
I thought boy scouts were suppose to be "morally straight".  Isn't some
discussion of relevant moral issues necesary then??
 
> Gary Smith
> grs@gsmith.b17d.ingr.com
> 
Brian McBean  -  McBeanB@BrandonU.Ca
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: mpb@troy.uucp (27331-bunz)
Subject: Who signs off on Tenderfoot - 1st Class?
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 19:06:05 GMT


Subject: Who signs off requirements for Tenderfoot-1st Class?
Newsgroups: rec.scouting

Well, the subject line just about says it all.  Is it an adult's
job to signoff on the requirements, or can a patrol leader or
other Senior Scout sign off.

20 odd years ago, my Troop had the PLs do most of the sign off, but
in my sons troop, only the SM or other adult signs off any thing.
Their justification was that if the Scouts sign off, it really didn't
amount to anything since the Scouts would let their friends slide.

Since this troop appears to have a few (understatement) problems with
the Scouts leading the show, I feel that giving this responsibilty to
the Scouts should help out.  

I tend to be of the opinion that the Adults are there to ensure nothing
catastrophic happens, to help pickup the pieces when minor problems
occur, provide suggestions when mistakes are being made through the
Senior Scouts, and to provide guidance and suggestions when asked.  I
think my fellow leaders would like for this to be the case, but aren't
sure how to get there.

So, if in addition to letting me know who does the sign off, also try
to give me a feel for who runs your Troop - All Scouts, Mostly Scouts,
Scouts and Adults, Mostly Adults, All Adults.  For those that have
been successful in moving toward more Scout leadership, who did you do
it?

I'll summarize any e-mail and related postings, assuming I receive
more than a few replies.

Thanks,

Marc (the Wayside Wanderer)

Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: bollman@zap.wrc.xerox.com (Jim Bollman)
Subject: Re: Need Help on trip to London
Reply-To: bollman.wbst128@Xerox.com
Organization: Xerox Webster Research Center
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 11:29:08 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.212715.7378@waikato.ac.nz>, poli2031@waikato.ac.nz
writes:
|>In article <1992Apr10.114342.26873@spectrum.xerox.com>,
bollman@zap.wrc.xerox.com (Jim Bollman) writes:
|>> Troop 125, Williamson New York is planning a trip to London England in
|>> 1993.  We need a cheap place to stay close to transportation for getting
|>> around London from February 12th to 20th.  This will be a trip for boys
|>> 14 and older.  If anyone has any ideas or contacts let me kno
|>>  ...........
|>> Jim Bollman
|>> Committee
|>> 
|>A suggestion - what about BP House in London?  If it is still open for
|>accommodation, it would also be an educational stay for them as they could
|>learn about where scouting began.  I stayed there for a short while about 10
|>years ago and it was comfortable and cheap.  Any British
scouts/scouters coming
|>forward with suggestions??
|>
|>J Lim
|>
                        
We are considering the BP House but understand it is now 20 pounds a
day/scout, which pushes the budget a bit more than we want.

Thanks

Jim...
From: todd@reed.edu (Todd Ellner)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: flame wars: Cronin v. Cashman    { :) }
Date: 17 Apr 92 16:49:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Apr17.164945.16152
Distribution: usa
Organization: Reed College, Portland OR

...friendly, courteous, kind,...cheerful... ;-)

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Ellner  todd@reed.edu 
"What has the study of biology taught you about the Creator Dr. Haldane?"
JBS Haldane:"I'm not sure, but He seems to be inordinately fond of beetles."