HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bill@wsuaix.csc.wsu.edu (William E. Johns;S23015)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: emotional tarot readings?
Date: 1 Jan 93 20:25:21 GMT
Organization: Washington State University

In article <1992Dec31.215447.14317@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> jav@accolade.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (25853-lujan) writes:
>>When I laid out the cards (using a celtic cross spread) the final outcome
>>card was Death.  As soon as I saw it, I said "don't panic, that means
>>more of a transformation than a physical death," but it was already too
>>late.  Turns out, her daughter had tried to commit suicide earlier in 
>>the week.  I knew she was worried about her daughter, but I didn't know
>>what the situation was.  I kept trying to work the card into the reading
>>as a whole -- one of our other housemates is dying of cancer, so death
>>is on all of our minds lately.
>-- 
>Hi Dawn, I've been giving readings for about 11 years and
>at first I had a hard time with cards such as "death", the "devil", 
>and several others.  What helped me was, to meditate on those
>cards to understand why they are necessary and why they come up on 
>someone's reading.  I meditated on those cards time and time again 
>until I felt confortable seeing them on a reading. 

[the continued discussion omitted]

I think you missed the point of Dawn's argument/concern.  She obviously
has a handle on her deck.  Her problem was she did a reading for someone
else who did not.  When that other person saw the cards and attached
meanings to them, she was incapable of counteracting their immediate wrong
impressions.

The question is how you do this?  How do you overcome the fears/concerns
of others in readings when they see or hear things that to someone skilled
in the tradition mean one thing, and to someone not skilled means
something else?

I never have been able to figure this out, and for that reason am _very_
reluctant to give readings to others.

Comment?

Bill
________________________________________________________________
johnsw@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu  prez=BIMC 
AMA #500924   DoD #00314   WMTC #0002  SR= 3 
Yamabeemer fjgs1200pdr100 740GLE  KotV KotRR KotD #0001  :-)
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Guilt is the love of staying stuck.

                                          Hugh Prather
From: lib1p@jane.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: The behavior of Cats (was Re: Social inhibitions....)
Date: 28 Dec 1992 22:53 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1992Dec28.181847.8891@radian.uucp>, markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes...
>In article <1hbkceINN3u9@leela.CS.ORST.EDU> casspa@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Paul Cass) writes:
> 

..stuff deleted....

>A friend, long ago, had, on her SCA device, a grey cat passant, upon a
>book, open. This is, of course, standard position (try to read your
>Sunday paper). Why do you think your keyboard & monitor should be any
>different?
> 
>	mark, the be-catted
> 

First, I really like that idea of the device....very fitting.  8-)

I have never had a cat NOT do this.  When my half grown kitten, Nightshade, 
was a little younger I was trying to read a magazine while sprawled across 
bed.  She kept insisting that I play with her and would place herself 
between me and the magazine.  I tried to push her off and give her attention
while still reading the magazine.  Of course the hand not giving her 
attention a and the ruffling pages where much more fun than the hand she
had.  

In desperation I rolled onto my back and held the magazine up above me.  
Everything was fine untill.....plow!  She had run and jumped and landed
right on the top side of the magazine....crashing herself and the magazine
on top of my face.  This of course was great fun and when I resumed she
did it again.

Alas, I don't read magazines in bed anymore......

Tammy the Lucky (that Nightshade is asleep....shhhhh)

8-)
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: emotional tarot readings?
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 1 Jan 93 00:13:42 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.215447.14317@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> jav@accolade.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (25853-lujan) writes:
>
>I bought many decks through the years, but still rely on my 2 oldest 
>decks (Rider-Waite, Morgan-Greer) to give readings because those are 
>the ones I feel most confortable with.  Use a deck you feel confortable.

This is totally unrelated to the topic at hand, but I had to comment on
it.

Javier, I'm not slamming you fro your spelling of "comfortable"; it's
just that your spelling seems to have laid clear for me something I've
always wondered about -- where the hell the word came from.  If the /n/
has indeed migrated forward in preparation for the /f/ (as happens
frequently in languages) it means "to become strong with."  What a great
etymology!

Just a thort,
Janis
From: ailsa@ailanthus.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Nomenclature./Men are Not witches!
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 10:30:46 EDT
Reply-To: ailsa@ailanthus.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Organization: Ailanthus Project

dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:

> In article <1992Dec18.212725.23970@athena.cs.uga.edu>, tedr@athena.cs.
> >
> > Okay, let's clear the air on this one.  Since when were men called w
>
> Since they stopped watching "Bewitched."
>
fairly sure i found while studying up on the inquisition that men were
burned as witches as well.  in so many words, that is.

> > The correct terminology for a man who endeavors to engage in magical
> > practices is "Warlock".  The more gender nuetral term would be
> > "Necromancer".  If I practiced magic, I surely wouldn't want to be c
> > witch.
>
> If Bran wants to be called a witch, that's his business.  I don't thin
> you'll find very many sources in modern paganism outside of comic book
> using the word "warlock."  But hey, if that's what you want to be call
> go for broke.
>
interesting we are arguing the correct terminology for something like
this.  kinda like an argument on the correct fire-creating apparatus
for dragons.  call yourself whatever you want to call yourself.  if you
prefer to introduce yourself as a Schmendrick, for instance, go for it.
 just be prepared to define it, and to have yiddish-speakers giggle at
you.

                                        -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
            ailsa@ailanthus.com   or   ailsa@wonky.uucp
                                                        ________
I miss the rains down in Africa.                Silence \      / Action
Gotta take some time to do the things we           =     \    /    =
  never have...                                  Death    \  /    Life
                                                           \/


Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.misc
From: drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake)
Subject: Re: The meaning of "pagan"
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 04:23:30 GMT

amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker) writes:

>> I am the way.  Not "I am a way."  I am THE way.  Moreso, "I am the way, 
>> the truth and the life.  No man cometh to the Father but by me."  They 
>> did NOT write: "I am a way, one of many truths and a type of life.  
>> Some men come to the Father by me, but not all." 
>
>But not even traditional, orthodox Christianity interprets this in a narrow, 
>literalistic way, despite the intolerant propaganda of some modern Protestant 
>splinter groups.

It appears to be a phrase that requires little interpretation.  The Scripture
can be interpreted to mean whatever you damn well please.  However, if you
take it to mean what it actually says, you have little difficulty with
varying "interpretations."

>Take even Roman Catholicism, arguably the most exclusionary 
>of Christian sects.

Aguable?  Yes.  Successfully arguable?  Not in your wildest dreams.  Unless,
of course, you want to play with semantics and define Christian however it
suits you.

>The crowning pillar of Roman Catholic theology, Saint 
>Augustine, wrote:
>
>"That which is called the Christian religion existed among the ancients and 
>never did not exist, from the beginnings of the human race, until Christ came 
>into the flesh at which time the true religion, which already existed, began 
>to be called Christianity."
>
>You can find similar writings from the second century to the twentieth.  They 
>all point to a symbolic meaning not bound by particular names or structures.

Yes...however, neither you nor he will find justification with the pages of
Holy Writ to support your contention.  The Christian Bible proclaims Jesus
of Nazareth to be the one and only path to God, and, by extension, Christianity
to be the one and only "true" religion.  Can you provide any Scripture - as
oppossed to human interpreter's thoughts - to deny this?

-- 
Love and Laughter,             | NOTE: Private mail must go explicitly
Xeper and Remanifest,          | to drake@seismo.soar.cs.cmu.edu
                       DRAKE   | or it'll bounce back to you...
From: michael@albert.bu.edu (Michael Chaplin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: pagan origin of Christmas customs?
Date: 24 Dec 92 04:00:54 GMT
Organization: Boston University
In-reply-to: idfraser@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca's message of 23 Dec 92 06:04:16 GMT

idfraser@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Ian Fraser) writes:

=michael@marcel.bu.edu writes:

=- Actually the song "The 12 days of Christmas" has to do
=- with the span of days from Chistmas to the Epiphany, i.e., from
=- the birth to the arrival of the Magi. The *span* of twelve days,
=- though, could certainly have been adopted from the ancient Yule

=I was under the impression that the reason that "Five Golden Rings" was always
=sung so differently was because the fifth day of Yule was Christmas. The
=Epiphany explanation was grafted on later.

=Bright Blessings to you and yours!  
=Hawk
=Circle of Ashtoreth, 
=Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.

It's an interesting possibility, but I'd wonder first if
were somehow essential to the song's structure.

Chaplin, who prefers: "FIIIIVE GOLLLLLDENNNNN TOUUUUUUUUKS!!!!!"
                           <"and a Beer... in a tree.">

Enjoy the noise, enjoy the quiet.   Enjoy the Holidays, folks. 
--
=========================================================================
Michael A. Chaplin           If you want *their* opinions, ask *them*.
michael@albert.bu.edu ....The Einstein Papers Project, Boston, Mass., USA
chaplin@husc.harvard.edu ....Harvard University, Cambridge, Mass., USA
From: amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Documented Evidence
Date: Fri,  1 Jan 1993 15:09:20 -0500
Organization: InterCon Systems Corporation
Distribution: world
Reply-To: amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker)
NNTP-Posting-Host: chaos.intercon.com
X-Newsreader: InterCon TCP/Connect II 1.1b31

SL500000@brownvm.brown.edu (Robert Mathiesen) writes:
> (Since you can get 
> alt.pagan, you can probably get alt.magick; I have two or three long 
> postings on the sources of Gardner's Book of Shadows there in the last 
> few weeks, and there are also valuable contributions by others to the 
> same question.)

Yup.  Actually, I'd thought this was the same thread--I'd lost track of which 
newsgroup it was in :)...

> One of the challenges for the future will be to save 
> the power of the myth of the burning times without sacrificing 
> historical accuracy.  I think it is possible to do this, but it won't 
> be easy.  -- Robert 

I agree.  Interestingly enough, I am starting to find the fact that esoteric 
interests are often not talked about *even within families* may be an even 
more powerful image for me than the conventional conception of a family 
tradition.  For example, I have reason to believe that quite a number of 
people in my family had such interests, up until as recently as one of my 
great-grandmothers.  However, there is now no way for me to know for sure, or 
what form they might have taken, simply because middle-class women in 
Kentucky and Virginia just didn't talk about such things in the 1850-1950 
period.  And so, instead of having a heritage of thought and writing from a 
woman I evidently would have had a lot in common with, all I'm left with is a 
few tantalizing hints scattered among family stories and a few photos.  And 
this is just the most recent example--there are similar hints throughout my 
family history, but because they *weren't* passed on from generation to 
generation, all I can make are guesses, no matter how much historical 
detective work I do.

Now, perhaps it is a result of my being a child of the 60s and 70s that I am 
more outraged by the idea of walls built within families rather than around 
them, but I find myself deeply angry about it in a way I cannot seem to 
summon about the Wiccan "Burning Times".  My martyrs are the invisible ones: 
the mothers and fathers who kept silent to try to save their children the 
trouble of being different; the uncles whose only legacy to their nieces and 
nephews is a masonic sigil on their gravestone; and all those people who were 
persecuted and silenced not by firebrands but by public opinion.

The "book of shadows" my ancestors passed down to me is empty, and its pages 
have no words, only silence.  My great-grandmother smiles at me from old 
photos, and I see a reflection of myself and my mother, but any secrets she 
had were buried with her forty years ago.



Amanda Walker
InterCon Systems Corporation
From: donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: RE: Cats (was RE: Social inhibitions to environmental change)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 17:28:17 CST
Organization: The Brewers' Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

mmelez@vax.clarku.edu writes:

> Date sent:  29-DEC-1992 18:53:30 
> 
> In a previous article, boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan) wrote:
> > 
> >In article <1hbkceINN3u9@leela.CS.ORST.EDU>, casspa@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU
> >(Paul Cass) writes:
> > 
> >> Can someone kindly tell me why cats insist on standing on the keyboard
> >> and presenting their fanny while you are trying to type.  This cat has
> 
>     (stuff deleted)
> 
> >Uh, Paul . . . that's a female (or one-time female) cat, right?  I hope
> >I don't trip over any inter-species phobias, but that's an expression
> >of, er, um, interest in, um, YOU know . . . making kittens.
> 
>     (more stuff deleted)
> 
> I wouldn't be too sure.  My cat used to do this to me and a female friend of 
> mine.  In fact it became a ritual that every time my friend came over and 
> petted Shana, Shana would provide my friend with a view of her fanny. (Shana 
> an ex-female).
> 
> >				- - Steve
> 
>                                        - Myk.
> 
> mmelez@vax.clarku.edu

besides, and I suppose it should be pointed out here, ALL cats, male and 
female, regard ALL human cargivers as "Mama". According to the psych 
boys, this is why a cat, raised from birth with humans, stays 
"kittenish". They never truly leave the nest. 

Oops, that should be caregivers above, not 'cargivers'. Cargivers are 
DEFINITELY father figures... :)

Blessed Be, and Purrrrrrrr!  :)

--------------------
Donal, SysAdmin of The Brewers' Witch BBS -- +1 713 272 7350
(Internet) donal@brewich.hou.tx.us  (Work) bill%pssi@brewich.hou.tx.us
(CIS) 76460,1443  (WFS) file-request@brewich.hou.tx.us  INDEX or HELP
(SCA) Ld. Donal Dubh, IC of Dun Bruadar, B of the Stargate, K of Ansteorra
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: alizard@pil
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Space, the final frontier
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 93 02:08:05 PST

Re: Re: Space, the final frontier

I'm not interested, especially, in impugning the technical integrity or
honesty of those working in the aerospace industry, I know that there are
many honest, dedicated, and competent people working there. I just want them
to defend their views. If they have genuine objections based on physical or
technical grounds that demonstrate convincingly that large scale fixed launch
systems such as the rail gun or laser propulsion systems can't be done, or
that given such systems, that we can't put the kind of infrastructure into
space required to industrialize it, or that given that infrastructure, we
can't use it effectively to gather energy and other resources... if this isn't
worth doing, I'd like to know it. Perhaps technical objections can be
answered, possibly by people working in these or related areas. 

What I'm saying it... they said this can't be done. I want explanations as
to WHY. (if those personally offended by this want to read this as an
invitation to come out and fight... that's OK as well.)

Amd as for Steve regarding launch vehicles and frictional heat... there's
a big difference between a few minutes of heating via rail gun and hours of
continuous heating at supersonic velocities. Low cost ablative coatings,
vapor phase cooling and other methods can be used. As for limiting freight
to 10 gravities, why? While I wouldn't care to ship the computer in front of
me this way as an intact box and have any faith that it would boot up due
to nasty things which would happen to the connectors (card, possibly even 
SIMM, worst case, DIPs in sockets) I wouldn't in the least bit concerned
about shipping the computer in knocked down form... the box taken apart,
the boards wrapped in bubblewrap and secured to a rigid surface... 
I see no reason not to ship electronics broken down and properly packed
at 25 Gs. Or not to ship CNC tools, lab equipment, fab equipment...          
or the other equipment needed to build space factories and habitats. 
(note: the rail gun needed for a 25 gravity launch is MUCH smaller than
Steve's 400 miles. And quite a bit cheaper.)
Blessings...
                                        A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== sum saurus, sum saurus, sum maximus saurus! ====== 93 ======
 (slogan contributed by Jessica Mc Geary)  (translated by Murray Altheim)
Mail to me should be sent to:       |  There are no fnords in this sig file.
alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM     |  autoreply to address I posted this
     ^^^ preferred site ^^^         |  from only if you want to wait a
PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard     |  solstice or two for my answer.
alizard@seer.mystic.com             |              Kallisti!
^^^use ONLY if all else fails       |  PGP2.0 public key available on request

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: claebaur@shell.portal.com (Tony S Annese)
Subject: Re: a little mindless bitching
Organization: Portal Communications Company -- 408/973-9111 (voice) 408/973-8091 (data)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 05:18:41 GMT

In article <gate.0kiowB1w165w@pil.UUCP> alizard@pil writes:
>Re: a little mindless bitching
>> While I was home, I got a few surprises -- good and bad, and had a few
>> unpleasant feelings justified.
>> what it is?  It's those goddamned niggers" actually escaped her lips,
>
>Sometimes, you find that you REALLY can't go home again. Reminds me of
>childhood memories from the suburbs of Detroit, Michigan... bad ones...

Yes you can never really go back home. I was raised in New York City till
I was 16 and then I moved to Florida for a year before I joined the military.
I have been back to NYC a couple times for funerals and to see family but
not really anything I would call a real trip back home until 3 months
ago when I went home with my wife and kids to visit my(and my wifes) parents
(they hadnt seen my youngest son yet). We took it as a vacationan went to
see the sites and such. It hasnt changed much but I have. I wouldnt wish that
kind of living upon anyone. It's amazing how ones tastes in living change in 
such a short time. Can't wait till I return to Florida.
--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Tony Annese                                            claebaur@shell.portal.com
                                                  -or- claebaur@cup.portal.com
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ddawson@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Dick Dawson)
Subject: Re: Nomenclature...i am confused (the W word)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 02:04:30 EST

In article <92350.38176.L629159@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM> L629159@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
>From: kre@po.CWRU.edu (Keith R.W. Elflein)
>
>I have just recently begun to read this bb because i am interested in
>getting to know more about pagan beliefs and practices. I still am new at
>this, and am trying to make a decision as to where my beliefs are, but i
>have always been drawn to pagan beliefs and the like ever since i was a
>child. But i have noticed that in many articles some of the people who
>state that they are pagan also call themselves "witches." Now, a witch is
>someone who has sold her soul to evil, last time i checked. I thought that
>pagans believed in worshiping the life-force that flows through nature.
>That, to me, is certainly not evil, but the life-force which flows from the
>higher power. I need someone to clear this up for me please. Thankyou,
>
>           Keith

Read Starhawk _Dreaming_the_Dark_ for an interesting comment on
treatment of people of "other" religions in England a few hundred
years ago.  (In the appendix).

The word witch first appears in the (holy) "Bible" in the King James
version, King James version being a name that tells it's purpose right
up front.  The passage "ye shall not suffer a witch to live".  The
actual Aramaic word was poisoner or well (water) poisoner.  Obviously,
someone who would poison a village water supply was into mass murder. 
But witch is something entirely else.  The word might come from
Anglo-Saxon wicce, meaning either wise or to bend (as in magical
alteration).  Such talents could be and still are used for any intent,
good or evil, religious or otherwise.  There certainly was some sort
of religion in England before christian proselytizing.  The christians
obviously didn't want competition.  Labeling practitioners of the
previous religion "witch" and redefining witch to mean evil doer and
then passing laws condemning any witch to death and providing for
seizure of that persons property has obvious usefulness.

Gerald Gardner (and friends) assumed the word witchcraft for their
religious practices in England in the 1930's and 40's, eventually
resulting in the repeal of the English witchcraft laws.  The term
witch has stuck to current practice of polytheistic and pantheistic
nature related religion.  These religions are often heavily goddes
oriented.  The terms pagan and heathen share similar use; as
condemnation by christians and as assumed labels by practitioners of
religions not based in christianity.  These self assumed labels serve
to identify a distancing from the antagonistic aspects of exoteric
christianity.

Dick
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: meeting Corun
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 30 Dec 92 17:45:25 GMT

So, I finally have a face to attach to the glowing words that spring up
at me at a keystroke, and it's Corun Macanndra's face.  What a sweetie.

For reasons unknown to me, he drove his poor butt all the way up from
Washington, DC to Philadelphia (well, close to Philadelphia) just to
have lunch with me; this impressed me as it indicated either a true
desire to meet me, or a severe mental imbalance, considering the drive
and the weather he had to get through to make it.  I think it was the
former.

ENNYway, he's quite a sweetie, and meeting him has convinced me that I
desperately want to meet others on the net!  I only wish I could meet
someone while I was out here, since I get a little claustrophobic when
I'm home and can feel myself change to suit it.  Just trust me on this,
Corun is a doll.

Corun, you're a doll!

Blessings,
Janis