HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: choy@skorpio.usask.ca (I am a terminator.)
Newsgroups: sci.engr
Subject: Re:-) urgent help needed (replying in humor)
Date: 19 Dec 1992 23:16:05 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: skorpio.usask.ca

In article <1992Dec17.091410.15402@nuscc.nus.sg>, eng10317@nusunix1.nus.sg (TAN PONG FEI) writes:
|> hello,
|>       i hope someone out there can help me with a project of mine.
|> recently i am assigned this project regarding the four stroke petrol
|> engine. i am just hope someone can provide me with the information on
|> the four stroke engine. the information i required are:
|>   a)the name of the parts and what are they made of

Parts list
----------
Qty   Item
1     V8 Internal combustion engine -- made of Ford truck
      (find truck, take motor)

|>   b)how they work

Set a course for the bar, Mr. Sulu. Warp 5. Engage.

|>   c)and any other information will be greatly appreciated.

Don't drink and drive.

Henry Choy
choy@cs.usask.ca
Xref: sparky sci.archaeology:3026 sci.anthropology:1591 bionet.plants:765
From: rspear@sookit.jpl.nasa.gov (Richard Spear)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,bionet.plants
Subject: Re: [ARCH] Re: Which Came First, Agriculture or Pastorialism? [LONG]
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:13:59 GMT
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

dick -

your last paragraph can also apply to the process of domestication.
here's a really speculative approach...the introduction of
agriculture leads to sedentary lifestyles around crop fields, fields
attract herds and the process of culling for desirable features
begins. likely? who knows?
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: wrp@gvlf8-e.gvl.unisys.com (Bill Pringle)
Subject: Re: Egyptian Race
Organization: Unisys Defense Systems, Great Valley Labs, Paoli, Pa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 13:22:35 GMT

In article <1gokqrINN6ff@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu> jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love) writes:
>In article <1992Dec16.201341.26769@ee.gatech.edu> ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel) writes:
>>   Recently I have noticed alot of references within the
>>African-American society to Egyptians being black Africans.
 [ stuff deleted ]
>"race." I've responded several times with recommendations to check out
>Biblical Archaeology Review, and I'm beginning to feel like the
>advertising manager for that publication. But once again, there is some
>quite accessible material on this subject that appeared there about a
>year ago, or perhaps even earlier. In this case, however, what was
>interesting was not the original article (which did not make much of an
>impression on me), but rather the flood of letters to the editor it
>provoked. Lay people and scholars alike appeared "from the woodwork" to
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Let me second the above recommendation.  The article was pretty good, but
the follow up letters were even better.  The response from the original
author was that ancient Egypt was similar to the Roman empire in that
if you were an Egyptian, what race or ethnic background you originally
came from didn't matter that much.  Among the ancient Egyptians were
natives from the area, but also people from different cultures that
obtained Egyptian citizenship by various means.  Once they were Egyptians,
they were considered Egyptians.  Too bad we aren't that way today.
====================================================================
Bill Pringle
wrp@gvl.unisys.com	-OR- ...!uunet!cbmvax!gvlv2!wrp
From: tage@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Phoenician Ship Wrecks In Carribbean???  Need to KNOW!!
Date: 12 Dec 92 02:29:16 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada






                Has anyone heard of Phoenician ship wrecks being found in
the Carribbean??  Or anywhere near the New World??   Very interested in 
knowing if any info or articles in mags exist on this topic.

                                       Tony Tage     Henigma@ac.dal.ca

Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: lwloen@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Larry Loen)
Subject: Re: Egyptian Race
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:31:20 GMT
Reply-To: lwloen@rchland.vnet.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Rochester

In article <1992Dec16.233452.14265@cs.wisc.edu>, rcmolden@parmesan.cs.wisc.edu (Robertc. Moldenhauer) writes:
|> In article <1992Dec16.201341.26769@ee.gatech.edu> ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel) writes:
|> >
|> >Hello,
|> >
|> >   Recently I have noticed alot of references within the
|> >African-American society to Egyptians being black Africans.
|> >It was my understanding that the Egyptians were a specific
|> >race which has all but died out.  If this is correct, what
|> >are some examples of black african cultures in the ancient
|> >world.  Heroes, Kings, great cities.  I am mostly looking
|> >for positive examples.  References would be Great!
|> >
|> >
|> >Thanks alot!!
|> >
|> >
|> >-- 
|> >     The comments and spelling herein are mine and nobody
|> >                     else lays claim to them.
|> >================================================================
|> >Lonnie D. Harvel                 |  ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu
|> 
|> 
|> For some reason that I don't quite understand, there seems to be a movement
|> to take the past away from modern day Egyptians.  I'm not Egyptian but if I
|> were I'd really be ticked.  Modern Egyptians ARE the legitmate lineal 
|> descendants of ancient Egyptians.  The names, religion and language have 
|> changed. but if you spend the day in the Egyptian Museum looking at the 
|> art from ancient Egypt and then wander around Cairo at night the faces will 
|> be quite familliar.  How anyone who has has their past stolen from them
|> (African Americans) can then try to steal the past from someone else is
|> beyond me.
|> I don't think there's been an serious work done trying to relieve Egyptians
|> of their past.

I wouldn't be so sure.  I recall, vaguely, an article on this topic a
month or maybe two back in Newsweek.  They made it sould like there were
several scholars working this angle.  They also made the people sound kind
of kooky, but I wouldn't necessarily put much stock in that.  Gotta sell
them glossy mags, after all.

Anyway, somewhere in this country, there is some real intellectual talent
working this problem from _some_ angle.

I think I also recall seeing (another? the same?) article making arguments
that the Nubian culture had a lot more going for it than had been previously
believed, coupled with speculation about how long/how often the Nubians may
or may not have ruled Egypt.  There may have also been more give and take
between the cultures than had been realised, if I remember the article right.

Don't take any of this as gospel (my memory on such a thing is a bit chancy),
but I am reasonably certain the article(s) themselves appeared.  "You can look
it up" as someone once said.  Might be a place for the original poster to start.

-- 
   Larry W. Loen        |  My Opinions are decidedly my own, so please
                        |  do not attribute them to my employer
From: higham@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: Dating methods
Date: 20 Dec 92 23:39:00 GMT
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <BzKKG4.BKo@iat.holonet.net>, remmons@iat.holonet.net (Robert Emmons) writes:
> I'm interested in a layman's guide to determining the age of fosils, 
> rocks, artifacts, etc. I've heard about dating via carbon and other 
> radio active decay methods, as well as tree ring counting, but I'd like 
> to see a more detailed explaination. Are there any layman's books on the 
> subject?
> 

I would certainly recommend M.Aitken's "Science based dating in Archaeology"
published in 1991 by Longman Paul (?). It goes into lay and expert detail on
all manner of scientific dating, including large sections on 14C and
dendrochronology and a range of other methods. Very detailed and interesting
overview.
-- 
Tom Higham,                    
Radiocarbon Dating Lab,
University of Waikato,
Hamilton,
NEW ZEALAND.
Higham@waikato.ac.nz /
C14@waikato.ac.nz
From: jane@soave.swdc.stratus.com (Jane Beckman)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: Tired of those Egyptomaniacs?
Date: 15 Dec 92 22:00:44 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., San Jose, CA

I'm not sure what dowsing has to do with archeology, unless
you're trying to use it to find buried walls or something.

On the other hand, I've never seen a dowsing "demonstration."
I have watched guys from the power company and backhoe
operators use angle irons to find buried pipes, though.  


--
  Jilara   [jane@swdc.stratus.com]

"The field of pseudo-science hasn't progressed much in ten
years, except to gain access to the net." --from ca.earthquakes
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel)
Subject: Egyptian Race
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology - DSP
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:13:41 GMT


Hello,

   Recently I have noticed alot of references within the
African-American society to Egyptians being black Africans.
It was my understanding that the Egyptians were a specific
race which has all but died out.  If this is correct, what
are some examples of black african cultures in the ancient
world.  Heroes, Kings, great cities.  I am mostly looking
for positive examples.  References would be Great!


Thanks alot!!


-- 
     The comments and spelling herein are mine and nobody
                     else lays claim to them.
================================================================
Lonnie D. Harvel                 |  ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: remmons@iat.holonet.net (Robert Emmons)
Subject: Dating methods
Organization: HoloNet National Internet Access BBS: 510-704-1058/modem
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 17:55:14 GMT

I'm interested in a layman's guide to determining the age of fosils, 
rocks, artifacts, etc. I've heard about dating via carbon and other 
radio active decay methods, as well as tree ring counting, but I'd like 
to see a more detailed explaination. Are there any layman's books on the 
subject?

Xref: sparky sci.archaeology:3025 sci.anthropology:1589 sci.med:22808 bionet.population-bio:138
From: archive@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (DCG Mktg Docmnt (Ivrea))
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,sci.med,bionet.population-bio
Subject: sexual dimorphism on hands bones
Date: 18 Dec 92 14:59:45 GMT
Followup-To: poster


        We are writing a degree thesis based on a research regarding 
    the hand's bones of the individuals belonging to Anthropology 
    Museum of Torino (Italy), coming from the excavations campaign 
    done in Egypt within 1903 and 1930, specifically 
    to the sites of Asiut and Gebelen.
        Our research is focused on the study of the carpus and
    metacarpal in order to analyze sexual dimorphism connected
    to the differentiate use of the right hand and left hand,
    putting in evidence also the pathologies found.
    We would much appreciate if you kindly send us some worthy
    bibliography source on this topic.        MANY THANKS
                                             +----------------------+
                                                Maria Pia Gaiero

               phone +39 125 521164             Via Martinengo 36
                FAX  +39 125 521274             12063 Dogliani (CN)
                                                Italy
                                             +----------------------+
    please answer to:        
    ----->  rinetti@olivej.atc.olivetti.com   (129.189.134.6)   or
            rinetti@xsft7.ico.olivetti.com    (131.1.6.17)
From: rcmolden@parmesan.cs.wisc.edu (Robertc. Moldenhauer)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: Egyptian Race
Date: 16 Dec 92 23:34:52 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.

In article <1992Dec16.201341.26769@ee.gatech.edu> ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel) writes:
>
>Hello,
>
>   Recently I have noticed alot of references within the
>African-American society to Egyptians being black Africans.
>It was my understanding that the Egyptians were a specific
>race which has all but died out.  If this is correct, what
>are some examples of black african cultures in the ancient
>world.  Heroes, Kings, great cities.  I am mostly looking
>for positive examples.  References would be Great!
>
>
>Thanks alot!!
>
>
>-- 
>     The comments and spelling herein are mine and nobody
>                     else lays claim to them.
>================================================================
>Lonnie D. Harvel                 |  ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu


For some reason that I don't quite understand, there seems to be a movement
to take the past away from modern day Egyptians.  I'm not Egyptian but if I
were I'd really be ticked.  Modern Egyptians ARE the legitmate lineal 
descendants of ancient Egyptians.  The names, religion and language have 
changed. but if you spend the day in the Egyptian Museum looking at the 
art from ancient Egypt and then wander around Cairo at night the faces will 
be quite familliar.  How anyone who has has their past stolen from them
(African Americans) can then try to steal the past from someone else is
beyond me.
I don't think there's been an serious work done trying to relieve Egyptians
of their past.
From: higham@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: [ARCH] Re: Which Came First, Agriculture or Pastorialism? [LONG]
Date: 20 Dec 92 16:41:51 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <BzD7qt.4u@NeoSoft.com>, claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird) writes:
> In article <BzACz4.7IF@well.sf.ca.us> dchapman@well.sf.ca.us (Dave Chapman) writes:
>>Can anyone out there tell me what the best current dates are
>>for the beginning of agriculture, and for the beginning of
>>herding?  I have the impression that domestication of sheep
>>occurred later than the domestication of grains, but would
>>like to see actual references.
>>
>>Also, information on the approximate order in which the various
>>food animals and food crops were domesticated would be
>>appreciated.  Thanks.
> 			.


I would recommend Charles Redman's "Origin of Civilisation" as a good overview
of the processes of agricultural domestication.
-- 
Tom 
Xref: sparky sci.archaeology:3024 sci.anthropology:1588 bionet.plants:762
From: dcleek@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Dick Cleek)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,bionet.plants
Subject: Re: [ARCH] Re: Which Came First, Agriculture or Pastorialism? [LONG]
Date: 18 Dec 1992 14:25:02 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Reply-To: dcleek@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: dcleek@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

From article <BzFqIG.HnM@NeoSoft.com>, by claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird):
> In article <1992Dec17.153100.6512@panix.com> stcmille@panix.com (Steve Miller) writes:
>>However, to the topic at hand: what about the domestication of plants
>>and animals?  Cameron, you noted correctly that domestication emerges in
>>various places at various time, and that there's no clear priority of
>>plants or animals.  But you neglected the pet factor.  As a generation
> 			.
> paration, Steve has hit on one of my many fond,
> if unsubstantiated, convictions.  I think economics
> is interesting and important stuff, but I'm just
> sure that the first domesticates were pets and
> ornaments.  Among other attractions of this theory,

I thought economic explanations for animal domestication
failed because the economic products aren't really available
until well after domestication has occurred. My recollection
is that wild sheep die if sheared. The thought of milking a
300 pound wild cow is scary.

The pet theory might explain a few animals, but not large numbers
of animals that would have to be fed by a hunting and gathering
society.

Religion seems the best answer. Keep animals around to propitiate
the gods by sacrificing them. After 500 years of human contact
you have domesticates rather than tame, wild animals. Deleterious
traits, intractableness, etc. have been bred out of the herd, flock
because the nasty ones get sacrificed first.

Or so I was taught as a freshman.

-- 
..........   .........................         .......................
: |_|\/\/ :   Dick Cleek                        dcleek@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
:.centers.:   Univ.of Wisconsin Centers         dcleek@uwcmail.uwc.edu
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: brekshyn@shearson.com (Bohdan Rekshynskyj)
Subject: Re: Egyptian Race
Reply-To: brekshyn@shearson.com
Organization: Ordinatio
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:09:27 GMT

Greetings,

   Another theory put forth is that the original Egyptians are the Copts (or those
of that origin).  After all, they have a basis in Christian religion.  Egypt was
part of the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium) when overrun by the hordes of Moslems
under the reign of Heraclius in the 7th century.


					Bohdan












=====================================================================
 
Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj
 
Consultant                     
 
Compuserve:  72576.1754@compuserve.com


                              
All promulgations are my own.  No corporate entity has authorization
to represent me.
 
Imprimatur.						Nihil obstat.
 
=====================================================================


Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: Stephen Trzaskoma
Subject: Re: Egyptian Race
Organization: University of Illinois U-C Dept. of the Classics
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:56:47 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.023421.5705@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu>
tratclif@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Tracy Ratcliff) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec16.201341.26769@ee.gatech.edu>, ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu
(Lonnie D Harvel) writes...
>>> 
>>>Hello,
>>> 
>>>   Recently I have noticed alot of references within the
>>>African-American society to Egyptians being black Africans.
>
>I'm surprised there hasn't been more from the 'Egyptians as Blacks' people.
>Someone has mentioned the Newsweek article on multiculturalism in another 
>post, and as I remember it listed several authors and books.  One that was
>mentioned (that I haven't read yet) is _Black Athena_ which tries to trace
>most everything good about Greek culture to Egypt and thus to African culture.
>
Ok, I guess I'll jump into this, having heard a lot of rather simplistic
opinions on the subject.  The easiest answer to the question is to give this
reference:
"Black Folk Here and There" by St. Clair Drake published as Volume 7 in the
Afro-American Culture and Society A CAAS Monograph Series (UCLA? 1987?)
Forgive any inaccuracies in the above, but if you can find it, it will be a
nice place to start for two reasons: one, it is written by an intelligent man
(recently passed away) who is neither one of those arguing that Cleopatra was
black (she was Greek after all), nor claiming that the racial composition of
Egypt in antiquity was essentially the same as it is today.  In other words, it
is a well-balanced piece, though one that many will still disagree with (fine
with me).  If it still seems too "pro-Black" to many of you who have already
made up your minds, at the very least it includes tons of bibliography (mostly
in the form of Bibliographic essays, as I recall).  It is the best source I can
recommend for anyone no matter what stage of investigation they are at.
Incidentally, Bernal's books (Black Athena series) are more than simply trying
to tie everything "good" from Greece back to Egypt.  They have sparked
intelligent debate in the field of Classics and that is good for any
discipline.  The greatest thing to be said for Bernal is that 1) he uses
historical and linguistic evidence and 2) those historians who know little
linguistics tend to bash his etymologies and 3) those who are considered
linguists tend to bash his historical evidence while verfying the plausibility
of many of his linguistic hypotheses. I find that trend incredibly amusing.  

The opinions above are definitely not those of the Univ. of Illinois and
certainly not those of the majority of the members of my dept. (who, like most
people can occassionally dismiss things which they haven't read).  Don't try
e-mail 'cause it won't work!

Stephen Trzaskoma
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,bionet.plants
From: stcmille@panix.com (Steve Miller)
Subject: Re: [ARCH] Re: Which Came First, Agriculture or Pastorialism? [LONG]
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 14:54:51 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <1992Dec18.024043.6864@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu> tratclif@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Tracy Ratcliff) writes:


>I was under the impression that the 'pet' theory was no longer the leader.
>At least that was the impression I got from _Covenant of the Wild_ (can't 
>remember the author and I may have the title wrong too (sigh)).  It was more
>of a pro-farming anti-PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals)
>book, but it spent a couple of chapters on the origins of domestication.

The "pet" theory was suffering until three major events occurred:

1) Habitrails were discovered in remains of PIE settlements

2) "Rex" "Scout" and "Fido" were discovered to be pet names with PIE
roots

and 

3) I found $20 in an old pair of pants pockets, allowing me to sit in a
bar and meditate on the meaning of the evidence for several hours.


-- 

__________________________________________________________
Steve Miller				stcmille@panix.com
		A Famous Rock Star!
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,bionet.plants
From: tratclif@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Tracy Ratcliff)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,bionet.plants
Subject: Re: [ARCH] Re: Which Came First, Agriculture or Pastorialism? [LONG]
Date: 18 Dec 92 02:40:43 GMT
Organization: Ohio University CS Dept,. Athens

In article <1992Dec17.153100.6512@panix.com> stcmille@panix.com (Steve Miller) writes:
>In <BzD7qt.4u@NeoSoft.com> claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird) writes:
>
>>In article <BzACz4.7IF@well.sf.ca.us> dchapman@well.sf.ca.us (Dave Chapman) writes:
>>>Can anyone out there tell me what the best current dates are
>>>for the beginning of agriculture, and for the beginning of
>>>herding?  I have the impression that domestication of sheep
>>>occurred later than the domestication of grains, but would
>>>like to see actual references.
>>>
>>There is much, much more to it than this, though.
>       [stuff deleted]
>However, to the topicat hand: what about the domestication of plants
>and animals?  Cameron, you noted correctly that domestication emerges in
>various places at various time, and that there's no clear priority of
>plants or animals.  But you neglected the pet factor.  As a generation
>of covert scholarship has shown, animals were first domesticated for
>their "cute" qualities, rather than for food, protection, etc.  

I was under the impression that the 'pet' theory was no longer the leader.
At least that was the impression I got from _Covenant of the Wild_ (can't 
remember the author and I may have the title wrong too (sigh)).  It was more
of a pro-farming anti-PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals)
book, but it spent a couple of chapters on the origins of domestication.
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology
From: andrewt@watson.ibm.com (Andrew Taylor)
Subject: Re: [ARCH] Re: Which Came First, Agriculture or Pastorialism? [LONG]
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:12:15 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <BzD7qt.4u@NeoSoft.com> claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird) writes:
>Well-attested dog remains have been found dating back around 10,000 years
> in Idaho, Britain, Turkey, ... (what's the archaeology of dingos?

The oldest date for Dingos I've seen is 3,500 years BP.  Exactly who
brought them to Australia and why is open for debate.  Flood's
"The Archaeology of the Dreamtime" should discuss this.

Andrew Taylor
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology