HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: Expos Clinch! Wallach to Dodgers
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 21:33:40 GMT

In <1993Jan3.205900.20735@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:

>In article <1993Jan3.193620.27863@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>>
>>Odds are calculated
>>according to how bookies predict people will bet - not on the final score.
>>Surely your scientific methods would give you the advantage over those
>>who bet by gut feelings?

>Have you forgotten the cut for the bookie?  It's rather significant...

The bookie's cut has nothing to do with the posted odds.  You look at the
odds and you go one way or the other.  The bookies cut is irrelevant.
 
the bet more than 50% of the time.  
>I could certainly make money betting directly with the masses.  Forget
>statistics, I could do it on general knowledge alone.  But I submit
>that *nobody* knows enough about baseball to beat the skew.

You aren't betting against the skew.  You pick the odds - one way or the 
other.

How big is the skew anyway, Valentine?  You don't know do you?

>>I submit that your predictions might allow you
>>to break even - assuming that "luck" is on your side!

>I agree.  That seems about right.

Then you are agreeing that stathead predictions are no better than those
of the common rabble.

>>Does OBP have anything to do with winning?  If it does you should figure
>>on making some money out of this info.  But if your information on OBP
>>does not correlate with how many games the team will win then it is useless
>>information isn't it?

>OBP *does* correlate with winning, and it is even reasonably
>predictable.  It still isn't enough to beat the bookie.

You aren't trying to beat the bookie..

>(Is Roger this stupid naturally or does he have to work at it?  It
>seems he hasn't understood *anything* we have said, since he continues
>to misrepresent our position.)

Much of what you say - such as this post - can't be understood because it
is sheer nonsense.  If your methods are superior prove it.  Make some dough.
And if you don't understand the simple mechanics of betting for or against
a line then keep your noise to yourself....

rm

-- 
Roger Maynard
maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
From: gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: My picks, AL/NL East
Date: 26 Dec 92 17:01:20 GMT
Organization: Somewhere in Hoboken

randall@informix.com (Randall Rhea) writes:

>gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite) writes:

>>3) Florida - OK, OK, this is the only prediction that's based more on 
>>sentimentality.  They're my new favorite team, since the Giants are owned by 
well...umm...i do admit it's based more on my heart than my head...

>>manager, 
but they're allowed that faux pas.  Nigel Wilson will start in left field,
>> hit 240 
with 25 homers.  Orestes Destrade will pop 270 with 20 homers.  Dave 
>>Magadan 
will post a 380 on base percentage at third, and Jeff Conine will hit 300 
>>with 15 homers 
in right, all of these in a pitcher's park.  Bret Barberie wil improve 
>>in offense, 
offsetting Walt Weiss, and hopefully they won't play Chuck Carr in 

>Where's the smiley face?  You can't be serious!   60 homers 
>from Wilson, Destrade, and Conine ... on which planet?  It will need to 
>be one with lower gravity resistance than Earth.   If Joe Robbie stadium 
>were on the moon, OK.  
well, here's where i'm basing it on...wilson's mle's in toronto are a
 265 average, with 25 dingers.  so, maybe if i said "20 homers", that
 wouldn't be reaching too much.  as a 24 year old, destrade had a mle
 (from albany) that would yield about a 240 average with 20 homers.
 not that far off..and conine?  his mle's last year (pro-rated to
 500 at bats, from 382) are 275, with 17 dingers.  so i'm not
 expecting career years...just ones that are *consistent*.  before 
 last year, conine was popping 320 at memphis, with 15 dingers;
 memphis is a big pitcher'sparks...

my reason for saying joe robbie will be a pitcher's park is because
 of miami's (lack of) altitude.  balls travel better in higher parks,
 so i'm assuming it will be a pitcher's park.

>Santiago and Weiss, they will be lucky to get 65 wins.
i would say 65 is a lot further frmo where they will be than third place.
 of course, if they bat chuck carr leadoff, nigel wilson on the
 bench, start alex arias over dave magadan, and bench conine, i
 take no responsibility...

- bob gaj
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira)
Subject: Offense, Defense, and the Transmutation of Egalitarian Society
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 06:45:48 GMT
Organization: Boo! 


Doc Dave pens 

>>Who was it that stated that pitching is 44% of baseball
>>(with offense 44%, and defense making up the rest)?

>Whoever it was was being silly, since offense has to be 50% of baseball, by
>sheer symmetry.  Scoring runs and preventing them are equally important to
>winning.

Weeeeeeeeeel.... yes, if you look at it that way.

But is the balance between offense and defense really the same in baseball
as in a slow-pitch softball game with 4 fielders?

Yes, preventing runs and scoring runs is equally important.  But I'm not sure
that's the same thing.  If you change the rules of baseball, and make it
much harder to prevent runs, doesn't offense become more important and
defense less so?

The ultimate example seems to me to be a batting cage contest.  There is
no defense, so it can't possibly be 50% of the game.  And if you add a
slo-pitch pitcher, does that automatically make defense 50% of the game. 

If you have a game in which raising the talent of your offense by 10%
is more beneficial than raising the talent of your defense by 50%, I
don't think there's a 50-50 split.

Greg  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Expos Clinch! Wallach to Dodgers
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 21:05:29 GMT

In article <1993Jan3.194201.28068@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>In <1993Jan3.092505.4128@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
>
>>But anyway, this brings up the question that I've been meaning to ask
>>since I heard about this trade.  Okay, more than one question.
>
>>1) What rational reason is there for choosing a 35 year-old Tim Wallach
>>over a 24-year old Dave Hansen, when they put up similar numbers last
>
>Perhaps because Expo FANS who have watched Wallach over the years enjoy
>watching him play?  Is this a foreign concept?  Is this too radical?
>Can you prove to me that Hansen is better?  When it becomes obvious that
>Hansen is better then Wallach should be replaced.

Roger, you are an idiot.  Hansen plays for the Dodgers.  The Dodgers
are replacing him with Wallach at some cost...

-Valentine
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Expos Clinch! Wallach to Dodgers
Date: 26 Dec 92 03:12:00 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department

In article <1992Dec25.220642.27251@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <1992Dec25.193739.29847@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>
>>The Expos probably gain a year in the amount of time they can keep
>>the current team together by this move.
>>
>>The big decision now will come with Martinez...I'm not sure they
>>can afford a contract extension for him, so next season may be
>>Martinez's last with the Expos, and after that some younger
>>arms are going to have to emerge.
>
>I don't think the situation is similar.  Wallach is a liability.  Martinez is
>not (yet) a liability, so in a year where they'll definitely contend, why
>trade him?

The issue is not whether to trade him...he will undoubtedly play for the Expos
this year...but I think Martinez wants to negotiate the contract
extension now.  The issue is whether the Expos want him beyond this
season.

Gerald
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
From: raza@engrg.uwo.ca (Mr. Raza Syed)
Subject: Re: World Champions???
Organization: DA&MRL, Engineering, UWO, London Ont. CA
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:24:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.010008.2735@walter.bellcore.com>, shamim@bellcore.com (Shamim Naqvi) writes:
|> In article <92352.165939U17868@uicvm.uic.edu>, <U17868@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
|> 
|> > The reason why Pakistan's performance is bad in ODI's 
|> > is that they played the O
|> > DI's mostly in Australia and England. 
|> [etc]
|> 
|> This is not quite logical. A good side wins anywhere. In fact I have a
|> lot of problem with sides who just win at home. So rather than finding
|> obscure reasons for Pakistan's bad performance at the WSC, let us
|> apply Occam's razor and just say that Pakistan has played badly. 
|> 
|> I have been saying all along that Pakistan is not a very good OD side.
|> In fact, a temperamental and volatile side like Pakistan is not going
|> to be a very good OD side in general. For the "daily" grind of WSC,
|> you need a professional, solid, workmanlike side. If this reminds you
|> of England under Gooch, you get the idea. 
|> 
|> Of course, having said all that, I must mention that Pakistan have
|> Australia and the WI exactly where they want them.  Miandad being a
|> clever guy is letting Aus peak too early and hopes to crush the WI in
|> Pakistan's inevitable and ineffable final charge (oops, almost forgot
|> the :-)).


Pakistan is best in both winning and losing;-) this has been there pattern
throuhout 1992 first they touch bottom in WC and then comeback to win the 
whole thing. Then they win the test series and almost all the tour mathes
in england quite convincingly, but perform like school kids in one day series.
And now in their recent match they touched the new hights(rather low) of mediocrity(sp?)
one can imagine;-) as far as other teams are concerned they dont even know how to
lose;-) they are average in losing as they are average in winning, so if you have to
lose in a big way learn it from pakistan;-) No batting lineup in the world has that
much control over themselves so as to lose 5 wkts for 14 runs, this shows that others
dont have any control over their batting 50-60 runs will automatically comes out of
their bats, look at pakistan they have achieved this feat twice in one year;-) plus
pakistan also holds the distiction of most ducks in an inning (six) and if i am
right they have achieved this feat also on more then one occassions;-) both in
test and oneday (not sure about one day though). Other distinctions pakistan have
are, completion of both inings within same day(can anyone match that?;)), losing test match
within three days;-) i can go on and on....


Seriously, before resuming WSC pak have a tough challenge in NZ, first reason
for that is they are full strength, and most importantly NZ is completly
different when playing in NZ as compared to their performance out side esp
asia.




|> 
|> 
|> 	--SAN

-- 

S.R.Raza.
raza@surya.engrg.uwo.ca
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 22:26:00 EST
From: Spaceman Spiff <SXK129@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: WI/Pak ODI
 <1992Dec23.134436.22@iwsd01.itwol.bhp.com.au> <BzqDH8.8A1@uceng.uc.edu>

In article <BzqDH8.8A1@uceng.uc.edu>, bnataraj@uceng.uc.edu (Bhaskar Natarajan)
says:
>
>
>    Does someone recall Walsh's bowling figures against SL at Sharjah some
>5-6 yrs ago ? It was quite unbelievable, but was it the record ?
>
5 overs, 4 maidens, 1 run and 5 wickets.

Stay cool,
Spaceman Spiff

Cogito ergo potum                               I think therefore I drink
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
SXK129@PSUVM.PSU.EDU                                Penn State University

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Over the years, I've developed my sense of deja vu so acutely that now
I can remember things that *have* happened before ...
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
From: debfin@maths.tcd.ie (Debbie Finucane)
Subject: England v Pakistan result?
Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 17:15:32 GMT


Hi,
  Can anyone tell me which was the only ENGLISH County to
beat PAKISTAN in 1992 ?

Thanks,
      Debbie

-- 
   Do not use harmful words,but only helpful words, || Debbie Finucane
 the kind that build up and provide what is needed, ||(debfin@maths.tcd.ie)
 so that what you say will do good to those who     ||Trinity Collage Dublin,
 hear you.   <Ephesians 5.29>                       ||  Ireland.
From: mcbean@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
Subject: Holiday Message
Date: 23 Dec 92 22:01:06 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

Happy holidays to all.  My New Year's wish in cricket is for the second dynasty
of WI cricket to begin.

McBean
From: sjasthi@cse.unl.edu (srinivas jasthi)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
Subject: Kapil Dev : The Haryana Hurricane.
Date: 29 Dec 1992 22:15:45 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cse.unl.edu

Hi,



       In the last few days there were some articles questioning the position
of Kapil Dev in the team. The 3rd cricket test should have very well answered
to those articles.
      King Kapil, remains there still most respected and highly determined
player. His target these days is getting the 432 wicket to surpass Hadlee.
He is not very far from it. May be he can as well get it in the England series.
But I think he will be looking for the 500th wicket before retiring. 

     Kapil is the "Diamond Crown"of Indian cricket.The world cup-1983 under
his leadership was the beginning of golden phase of India, which didn't last
long only till the world cup loss to England in 1987. The 3rd cricket test
against SA portrays the state of Indian cricket team very well.

Shastri, Prabhakar, Manjerkar, Azharuddin, Raman are given enough chances but
time and again they failed. It is now the time they are rested. Let a new and 
more professional team be chosen.

Srinivas Jasthi.
 
--




Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
From: brad@hawk.adied.oz.au (Bradley Edelman)
Subject: Re: Aus vs. Windies. Where is Bruce Reid?
Organization: Australian Defence Industries
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 01:02:57 GMT

wasi@athena.mit.edu (Wasiuddin A. Wahid) writes:
>The heading says it all.
>Wasi.

He injured his shoulder before the 2nd Test after the Sheffield Shield match
against Victoria (I think).  Probably will be available by the 4th or 5th Test.

Brad.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
Subject: NZ v Pak D3 
From: awil2@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (Andrew James        Willmott       )
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 03:12:30 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept. University of Auckland

Pakistan are all out for 174, the tail being wrapped up reasonably quickly.
Morrison had 5/45, Sua 2/47, Owens 1/19, Patel 2/65. For Pakistan Inzaman (75)
and Rasheed (33) are were the main contributors.

NZ will be batting shortly, chasing 127 to win, with over two days left, so
time is not a worry!

Andrew
-- 
+--- Andrew Willmott ------------- awil2@cs7.cs.aukuni.ac.nz ---+
| Diplomacy: The art of saying "nice doggie" until you find a   |
| rock.                                          -Wynn Catlin   |
+------------------------- Auckland, NZ ------------------------+
From: rmandel@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Robert Mandelbaum)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
Subject: SA/India Test: End of India 2nd Innings.
Date: 29 Dec 92 12:07:45 GMT
Organization: GRASP Lab, University of Pennsylvania

Latest update on SA/India Test --- as of 2:00pm SA Time, Day III:

India first innings: all out for 212.
SA first innings:    all out for 275.

India second innings began disastrously with the score 31 for 6 at one
stage. Kapil Dev came to the rescue with a fine 129, restoring the
Indian score to a semi-respectable 215 all out after 73 overs.

SA needs 153 to win. Donald responsible for 11 wickets over the two
innings.

-Robbie.
From: jawad@ecst.csuchico.edu (Jawad Ali)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: PK NZ D2
Date: 4 Jan 93 03:19:17 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <1i88djINN8a2@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> jawad@ecst.csuchico.edu (Jawad Ali) writes:
>
>Pakistan 165/8 !!

NZ now coming in to bat.  They are going to chase 127 by my calculations.

>
>The good news is:
>It's only the second day :-)

OK. So its the third.

>Waqar is still batting   :-)

OK, not that either. But one way or another Miandad is going to get that extra
day and a half of rest that he has been clammering for.

>Can Newzealand pull a Huston Oiles here? :-)

That's the Houston Oilers.  Radio NZ International has shifted to 
Ian Castanidge's (?) come back from behind 21/18 victory over Gallop
in what the commentators are describing as a miracle.  Maybe I'll 
explain the Oilers to our Kiwi friends if they can explain what sport
it (21/18) was, because I have no idea.

Which is the only thing that seems to be going Pakistan's way
at this stage.  This day.  This victory_defeat_jaws_snatch
kind of thing.

>
>j n a
From: reddy@eecs.cs.pdx.edu (Sudhir Reddy Kallu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
Subject: Indian team for the last test
Date: 31 Dec 92 00:51:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: pdxgate.6635


Here is my team for the Last test against S.A.


RAMAN

YADHAV

AMRE

AZHARRUDDIN

TENDULKAR

PRABHAKAR

KAPIL DEV

CHETAN SHARMA

ANIL KUMBLE

RAJU

SRINATH

12th: JADEJJA

I am choosing Raman as 1st opener, since I want to give him one more chance.
I preffered Yadhav over More as keeper, and also as 2nd opener over prabhakar.
If this pair fails, it's O.K. Amre has been promoted to No. 3 spot, since we 
need a batsman who will keep his wicket under pressure(and he showed that 
temperment in the 1 Test). I choosed chetan because if we want to win outside 
our country, he is the right guy.(Remember the leeds test, which is the last 
test we won abroad)I choosed 6 bowlers in this team as nowdays these are the 
players doing everything for our team.Therefore in order to share the load, I 
preffered 6 bowlers.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
From: murali@iris.polymer.uakron.edu (Murali Cotah)
Subject:  2nd test (WI v Aus) comments
Organization: Institute of Polymer Science, University of Akron
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 23:30:06 GMT

Keywords: 

>> " .....Anyway, enough of that, the second test was a good one, three centuries,
one five wicket haul and a couple of fours, several sixes, some good
determined batting, and plenty of good bowling on both sites.  And what's
more, not one really controversial umpiring decision (and certainly none
I could see were wrong) - a few appeals turned down, the Australians
thought they had a few bat pad catches, none were given.

With any luck, the third test will be just as good, certainly Sydney has
produced results in I think just about all of the recent tests.

kre "
>>

Envy you. These type of test matches are becoming a rarity. However i still think that a controversial decision would have added more spice to the proceedings.

cotah
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
From: gupta_sn@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Sandeep N Gupta)
Subject: Re: King Kapil's no. of wickets
Organization: Johns Hopkins University - Homewood Academic Computing
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 20:54:23 GMT

In article <1hvbi3INNfhb@nic.umass.edu> RAHULI@UCSVAX (RAHUL INDRAYAN) writes:
>Kapil Dev has 408 test wickets after the 3rd test.
>-Rahul
>In <1992Dec30.115057.1@tesla.njit.edu> sxb8321@tesla.njit.edu writes:
>
>> Could somebody please post the no. of wickets kapil has right now in his
>> test carrier?
>> 
>> 	Thanx in advance.

I think it is 410.
Also with Border just about 150 runs away from Gavaskar's record, I think 
Kapil is slipping in the race.

-Sandeep Gupta.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
From: pradeep@sco.COM (Pradeep Subramaniam)
Subject: Re: India defeated England in ODI series 93
Organization: SCO Canada, Inc.
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 06:21:19 GMT

In article <Dec.23.01.53.56.1992.12451@ring8.rutgers.edu> ratan@ring8.rutgers.edu (Santosh Ratan) writes:
>
>Hi there!!
>
>There is no team which can perform consistent in ODI cricket. It is
>like the american baseball game. There isn't any meaning of winning a

Now, now there is no need to say that here. Do I detect a bit of
"sour grapes"ism. I am a very keen cricket follower who would give
almost anything to play a game any time of the day or month, but have
been taken up by baseball since I moved to Toronto (Canada). Besides 
baseball is on TV almost all the evenings in the summer. Toronto Blue Jays
winning the World Series is no fluke and it definitely CANNOT be concluded as 
meaningless. The victory at least spells some sort of consistency.
Pity, not all cricket teams are able to maintain this on ODI's.

Granted, we can attribute the odd few game victories to the fact that
all members of the team played to their potential on those days. But
when this happens once too often, then we call it consistent.

PS: I don't intend to start another argument about cricket and baseball.
To me, cricket is still the #1 game in the world. I however could not resist
a Yank run down Canada simply because a Canadian team had outdone them
at their own game.
;-) ;-)

HAVE A MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE.

>world series. It is more like a chance. In the light of these facts
>that India defeated the super rated English team in 1993 series.
>
>THE psychic
>-- 
>
>***********************************************************************
>                       Santosh Ratan  
>                   ratan@jove.rutgers.edu
>      Department of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering
>         Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey
>                      Piscataway, NJ       
>***********************************************************************


-- 
Pradeep Subramaniam - (416) 922-1937	| Statistics are like bikinis
SCO Canada, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.	|   What they reveal is suggestive,
RFC822net: pradeep@scocan.sco.COM	|   What they conceal is vital!
UUCPnet:{uunet,sco,utzoo}!scocan!pradeep|   - Yet another brilliant philosopher
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
From: kopti@seas.gwu.edu (Juzer T. Kopti)
Subject: Re: Final score card of India Vs SA  3rd test.
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 17:21:47 GMT

 i agree.

  SHASTRI HAI HAI

 		    
 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
From: venkat@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (mu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Kali's test record ?
Date: 31 Dec 92 18:48:02 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

bharat@cs.uiuc.edu (R. Bharat Rao) writes:
>Kalli was my favorite batsman to watch.  (Majid Khan and Viswanath 
>tied for a close second spot).

I'll ditto all your choices. :-)

>I was priveleged to see him play was in the first test of the 76
>tour of the Widies in India.  The first day, Greenidge scored a superb
>93 on debut before being run out and stumps were drawn around 180 odd
>for 2 (rainy day).   The next day there was some more rain and on the
>drying pitch the Indian spinners were unplayable.  The commentators with
>their gift for hyperbole said Prasanna was turning the ball a full yard.
>Absolutely wonderful to watch as he danced down the pitch to spinners or
>fast bowlers alike....

What fast bowlers? :-)  Wasn't it Abid Ali and Solkar who performed the 
task of bowling the five odd overs to remove some of the shine off the 
ball before the spin trio was brought in. :-)  If I remember correctly Bedi
did not play in the match you mention.  He was dropped because of some
comments he made after the debacle that was the summer of '42 (India in
England, 1974?, Geoff Arnold being the main destroyer of the Indian batting,
42 all out! etc.)

It might have been Raju Bharatan writing for the "Illustrated Weekly of
India", who compared Greenidge's knock to Kalli's,

"... while Greenidge was the artisan, Kalli was the artist"

Neville Cardus he ain't, but a nice turn of phrase nonetheless.

murari venkataraman
venkat@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu