From: len@netsys.com (Len Rose)
Subject: Re: satellite usenet
Organization: Netsys Inc.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 06:26:36 GMT

"(Bob Wier)" <rrw@ELDEN.CSE.NAU.EDU> writes:

> My major problem with spending $2K (personally) for the hardware required
> for a news feed is the monopoly of the supplier.  As I've had a
> satellite system since 1985, I've seen that a person is REALLY vulnerable
> in that situation (and for software too, fortunately I wasn't an American
> Exxtasxy (sp?) subscriber - did they get any refunds?).
 
 We know that you are not interested in buying anything from us. What I
 don't really understand is why you are so intent on running down something
 you know so little about..

 We are not selling anything that we haven't sold to our data customers
 for 10 years. We also like to be challenged by un-informed comments like this.
 Our software is public domain. I'll mail you a copy if you like. 
 We are continuously working on increasing our network access, via leased
 lines (we have two T1's now, and three additional 56k lines going to various
 spots) Also, I'd like to mention that the news comes right off three nntp feeds
 usually in a timely fashion. It's backed up by dial in lines, with uucp
 feeds. 

 I guess what irritates me so much is that for some reason, you seem 
 to continually class us as some bloody fly by night operation. You rant about 
 bonds, guarentees, and lack of honesty. Be serious. This is ISS Engineering
 and PageSat,Inc.  
 
  Norman Gillaspie was a pioneer in the home satellite industry. 
  Check the patents, and the industry magazines. 

> I'd seriously
> consider it IF I could be guaranteed at *least* a couple of years of
> lifespan with no subscription charges (as advertised).  The problem is that
> the rate things change in the satellite industry, it would be REALLY
> difficult for someone to be believable in such a guarantee (how about
> LVN?).  As I said, *IF* I were offered a feed for a monthly subscription
> fee and a lease/rental on the hardware, I'd be much more open to the
> service.  In fact, I have to ask, WHY isn't such an option available?

 It isn't available since things work that way. We have alot of costs involved
 in the system. I'll tell you what. I offer you (and you alone) the following
 deal. You send me an $1800 deposit, and pay us $50 a month. Then when you find
 out how stupid such an idea is, we'll gladly sell you a system and you can 
 stop paying me $50 a month. Or,after I make interest from your money, and we
 get the receiver back, we'll turn around and sell the same receiver to our 
 paging customers for twice what you paid for it. (offering them a full warranty
 of course)

> It sounds as if the object is to sell hardware, rather than deliver
> product, which of course is the exact opposite of what I'd be interested
> in a home type system.

 Bright aren't you? The object is to sell hardware. We are not a charity.

The service, well, you'd laugh if you knew just how little I've spent with the
satellite uplink feed, and anything associated with it.. Frankly, it's just 
another channel among 100 or more, and it just keeps cranking it out. The
object here is not having to force people to pay. If I had to charge a monthly
fee, we'd have people ripping us off, and then you'd see some serious 
encryption involved. Basically, I have done alot of work on encryption in the
past, and I could change algorithms daily.. It's Usenet. Perhaps I am old 
fashioned, but it still causes twinges when I see people paying for something
that ought to be free. Everyone would hate us for encrypting it, but you would
force us to do it by demanding a monthly service fee?

 I have alot of other things going on right now, things which you'll hear 
 about very soon. The Usenet feed is working really well, and people are
 getting extremely reliable service. I haven't received any calls from 
 dissatisfied people, (knock on wood) and only more and more calls ordering
 systems. 

> I'd also be interested if perhaps there was
> a bond posted in the amount of the original investment with an independent
> bonding agent so that in the event that the supplier failed within a
> given timeframe (say, again, 2 years) then the bond would be forfeited
> and I'd get the price of the system back (I believe this is sometimes
> known as a "performance bond" or "completion bond").  The USER isn't
> in a position to do this because the bond-maker would have to have
> access to the company to satisify itself that it was a good risk.

 Gag. You are really something aren't you? Perhaps you could demand a
 performance bond from the phone company? (We ARE a common carrier,by
 the way) .. I'll tell you what. You send me proof that HBO gives
 subscribers performance bonds, and I'll post one tommorrow. 

 If you paid money for your newsfeed,or paid long distance charges
 for it (and didn't read news at work) you'd probably buy our system.
 It just doesn't make sense not to,when you have to pay money. 

 You also seem to have some hidden agenda (versus my very open one :-) ).
 Perhaps if I knew what it was, I could better respond to you and 
 address your concerns. Here is what I suggest. When you get $1800 , 
 buy our system and then give me a call.  Until then, can I suggest you 
 stop posting uninformed noise and give us a break? 

> Why is Gary's system potentially better?  Because if one were to buy
> a sat system to receive his data transmissions, and then for one reason
> or another some factor cause the feed to be un-doable, I'd STILL have hardware
> which could be used for other purposes (ie, sell it to a secondary market
> - someone who wanted a sattv system - not possible with 100% obsolete
> harware - example: not much of a market for used 8 track tape players
> these days - OR I could use it myself as a second TVRO system).

 I heartily approve of Gary's system. It's a hobbyist thing. It advances 
 knowledge. It makes dull,boring evenings palatable. It also is not a
 viable delivery system. It is not a commercial delivery system. Perhaps
 someday it will be 24 hour, and high speed.

 Double Gag. There is something wrong here. 100% obsolete hardware?
 Our hardware is being bought every single day by major paging companies
 all over the US. In fact, even overseas. Call your local paging company,
 ask them which receivers they use. There is at least an 80% chance that they
 use our receivers. Yes, the very same ones we are giving, oops, I mean 
 selling to the net.  I believe there is a pretty good market for our 
 receivers anywhere someone is doing data transmissions. 
 (alot of paging companies,weather services,and news bureaus seem to think 
 so anyway)

> Kind of like buying a car versus a railroad engine to get to the nearest
> town.  If they tear up the tracks, then you have an obsolete locomotive
> on your hands.  With a car, you can go elsewhere even if the original
> purpose becomes moot...

Interesting analogy. Unfortunately it doesn't apply even in the slightest
respect. Perhaps I am not as informed about the satellite business as you 
are, but I have read the features and specs. of our equipment. Have you? 
I don't see anything incompatible with other birds in the sky. Just one 
basic fact ought to tell you how good our receivers are.. We are using 45 
cm dishes. What does that tell you? One doesn't have to be at the 
esteemed College of Engineering at Northern Arizona University to figure 
this one out.

>--BW
> - Bob Wier
>  ---------- insert favorite standard disclaimers here ----------
>                   College of Engineering
>      Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff Arizona
>  Internet: rrw@naucse.cse.nau.edu | BITNET: WIER@NAUVAX | WB5KXH

Len Rose (W3VDU)

 This is basically the last time I would like to get into this. I
 apologize to the rest of the readers of this newsgroup for submitting
 them to my irritable post. However, I cannot stand half truths,lies,
 and utter nonsense.

-- 
len@netsys.com (rutgers!netsys!len) "What a long,strange trip it's been.."
For more information regarding the Pagesat Usenet to Satellite Uplink system,
mail to "pagesat@netsys.com" or call: 415-424-0380 (ask for marketing)
.. Delivering 40+ megabytes of Usenet news each day, at 9600 bps .. 
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