HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Train station car rentals and long-term parking?
Date: 18 Dec 92 01:25:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: LLNL

In article <102375@netnews.upenn.edu> sfsmith@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Sandy F. Smith, Jr.) writes:
:     A final complaint: every commercial airport has a car rental
: on-site, that is pretty much open whenever the planes are flying.
: So far, only in Washington have I found a car rental at a train
: station.  If you are going to a city where you won't be picked
: up, and your destination isn't right near the train station, this
: totally eliminates AMTRAK as an option.
 
>Several people have already responded to this last complaint, suggesting
>there's a potential market the car-rental companies have yet to tap.  In
>Philadelphia, they have: both Hertz and Avis maintain counters *inside*
>30th Street Station, with fleets of cars available on the premises.  Btw,
>the station redesign added more long-term parking underground, and expanded
>the short-term parking area (although the new payment system, with booth
>attendants replacing the old parking meters, is more cumbersome).  You
>can't imagine how good I feel knowing that Philly finally has *one* first-
>class transportation terminal.

	It has been pointed out that a lot of Amtrak stations don't
get much passenger business in the first place, although stations
could certainly have ads for local car rentals.

	A problem for a lot of downtown stations is where the cars are
to be parked, since many of them were built before cars became so
super-abundant. However, parking garages _could_ be built above yard
space, which is usually abundant in major railroading areas. The only
"example" I know of, however, is the plan to build a parking garage
above a BART yard in Colma for a new BART station.

	One might also ask whether it is worth encouraging driving
through a typical downtown just to get to long-term parking, though
some suburban locale might be a more convenient place for a long-term
parking garage.

	The reason that airports can get away with all their parking
is because they need a lot of land to begin with, and can easily spare
land for big parking lots and garages.
-- 
/Loren Petrich, the Master Blaster
/lip@s1.gov
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jbvb@vax.ftp.com  (James B. VanBokkelen)
Subject: Re: Switch Heaters?
Nntp-Software: PC/TCP NNTP
Keywords: switch heaters
Reply-To: jbvb@ftp.com
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 11:03:53

In article <1992Dec14.150258.4398@ee.ryerson.ca> iain@ee.ryerson.ca (Iain Campbell) writes:

     ... These heaters are new, installation was just 
    completed over this past summer.  Prior to the heaters, the yard
    crews wielded these strange looking kerosene torch thingies.  They 
    looked like overgrown garden watering cans, but have something like 
    a large wick on the end of the spout.  The crewman lights the wick,
    and then goes to the frozen switch and pours some kerosene on the 
    points.  As the kerosene goes out the spout through the lighted 
    wick it catches fire, so drops onto the switchwork flaming...

Before the re-construction of South Station in Boston, all the switches
were heated by many, many little kerosene 'lamps'.  These were about
15" long, 4-5" wide, 3" high, with a handle at one end and a protruding
pipe with a wick in it at the other.  When it snowed they'd put one
between each tie for the length of each point, and light them.  When
there was no snow on the ground, they stacked them like cordwood off
to one side of the throat.  I'd guess this is the way they did it back
when RR section workers were plentiful and gas was only available in
urban areas.

I've seen two kinds of LP heaters - older ones with many burners under
sheet metal hoods beside the points, and the other with a remote
burner/blower/intake stack and ducts that route the hot air to the
points.  I know that the older ones could get put out by snow dumped by
a passing train, and that RDCs wer forbidden to stop over them.
Presumably the newer ones are less likely to get extinguished, and less
likely to ignite equipment...

James B. VanBokkelen		2 High St., North Andover, MA  01845
FTP Software Inc.		voice: (508) 685-4000  fax: (508) 794-4488
From: czl30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Chris Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Request for info: DRGW double Fairlie
Date: 16 Dec 92 22:34:14 GMT
Reply-To: czl30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Chris Lee)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

A plea for help from any net.railroaders who are into obscure little old
engines!

I recently bought a used book about the Western Pacific Railroad, which
had a photograph of a narrow gauge Fairlie named Mountaineer. The engine
had obviously seen heavy use, and the caption described it along the lines
of "builder's photograph of a little old engine used for special trains in
the Sierras". Written on the side of the nearest rail was "Summit Veta Pass
Alt xxxx ft." (scribbled on the photo, not therreal rail).

Now I like Fairlies, and seemed to recognise this one, so I looked through
my references and found a real builder's photograph of the same engine: built
by the Vulcan Foundry, Newton-le-Willows in 1873 and presented by the Duke
of Sutherland to the DRGW, and apparently withdrawn in 1883. The engine ran
on the 3ft gauge.

I understand that Veta Pass is in Colorado, which fits with the DRGW.

My question is, what happened to this engine after 1883? The book
implies it ran on the WP, but the WP was standard gauge. One possibility
I can think of, is that both the WP and SP used part of the trackbed of
the Nevade, California & Oregon, which was 3ft, and that the Fairlie was
used on that line, maybe by the WP on a wrecking train.

Can anybody shed light on this?

Thanks in advance......Chris Lee
From: jmb@ukc.ac.uk (J.M.Bremner)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Unusual tunnels?
Date: 19 Dec 92 19:44:47 GMT
Reply-To: jmb@ukc.ac.uk (Mike Bremner)
Organization: Institute of Mathematics and Statistics, University of Kent

In article <18529@mindlink.bc.ca> Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper) writes:
>> Steve Hooper writes:

>> [stuff about the Spiral Tunnels]

>One thing I forgot...these tunnels were modelled by the engineers after a
>specific tunnel or tunnels in, I believe,  Switzerland.

They are loosely similar to those on the Gotthard main line at Wassen.
Here, shortly after a full spiral, the line reverses direction twice in
two horse-shoe shaped tunnels: so trains pass Wassen three times.

These tunnels are on the northern approach to the Gotthard pass.  On the
southern approach there are four spirals: two close together, curving in
the same direction, and two, separated by a mile or two, curving in
opposite directions.

The best that Britain can manage is an open-air spiral on the Ffestiniog
Railway in North Wales.  This was built around 1970 as part of the
diversion to complete the re-opening of the line to Blaenau Ffestiniog,
the original route from Dduallt (or thereabouts) having been flooded by
a hydro-electric reservoir.  Similar spirals exist in Switzerland (on
the Rhatische Bahn), in India (on the Darjeeling Himalayan Railway), and
in Germany (at Rendsburg, where there's a high-level bridge over the
Nord-Ostsee Canal).

Spirals on roads are not unheard of.  In Switzerland, according to my
1970-ish road map, a new road was under construction leading south from
Lenk to the Rhone valley.  It looks as if this was to include an open-air
spiral.  And, at its north end, the Tyne Tunnel in Britain makes a turn
of more than 180 degrees.
From: bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Amtrak from Phoenix to Grand Canyon
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 08:45:32 EST
Distribution: na
Organization: 1776 Enterprises, Sudbury MA

rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Dan Meyer) writes:
> With that kind of layover [in Phoenix], why not just ride the Grand Canyon 
> Railroad from (mumble mumble)

Williams (about 25 miles west of Flagstaff)

> to the canyon, using a taxi or something like that to make the 
> connection...

It would be about a 200-mile taxi ride.

   ___            _                                           -  Bob
   /__) _   /    / ) _   _
(_/__) (_)_(_)  (___(_)_(/_______________________________________ bob@1776.COM
Robert K. Coe ** 14 Churchill St, Sudbury, Massachusetts 01776 ** 508-443-3265
From: zephyr@cory.Berkeley.EDU (COIFMAN)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Milwaukee Road Line Northwest
Date: 16 Dec 92 09:13:32 GMT
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley

In article <1992Dec15.093151@IASTATE.EDU> dptodey@IASTATE.EDU (Dennis P Todey) writes:
>Having been a Milwaukee fan since I was young, (their
>Kansas City line went through my hometown) I have
>always wondered where their line to the Pacific went.
>They had a line through to Rapid City, SD.  I think
>it went northwest from their, but I'm not sure.
>Can anyone fill me in on its route ?
>

 Pulling out my "The Official Railway Guide" from Nov-Dec 1977 and
turning to, "The Chicago Milwaukee St. Paul and Pacific RR". Under 'C'
not 'M' as I was suggesting in my last post (Woops!), I see that the
MILW did go to Rapid City, SD, but that was as far as they went, their
main line west was further north. It passed through McLaughlin, SD just
before entering ND. The next city on the line is Miles City, MT. Then
it splits, half through Billings the other through Harlowton to rejoin
at Three Forks, MT. Bute, Missoula, then Plummer Idaho. A branch breaks
off to Spokane and the main passes through Marengo WA. Then it is a
straght shot to Seattle. From there, it is north to the Canadian border
and south to Portland.
 An interesting tidbit too, it appears that the MILW was running a ferry
service between Seatle and Port Townsend as late as 77. 

 Looking a bit further, I pull out my reprint of, "Travelers Official
Guide of the Railways, June 1870" and find the, 'Milwaukee and St.
Paul'. They ran from Chicago through Milwaukee, west accross WI, into
Iowa and up through Austin MN into the Twin Cities. At this point, there
was no line along the west bank of the Mississippi. There are also a
number of other tiny railroads listed that presumably were eaten up by
the Milwaukee and it's compeditors as they grew. 



    r++-----------,---,-------------.            Benn Coifman 
   /~____________/ ""||      @      |       zephyr@cory.berkeley.edu
  / o-o  (*) (*)  o :  o-o-o     o-o      zephyr@robotics.berkeley.edu
From: jmatrow@donald.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (John Matrow)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Where is the Smokey Hill RR Museum?
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:10:31 GMT
Organization: NCR Corporation, Wichita KS

In article <1992Dec7.194344.21450@uc.msc.edu> wes@msc.edu writes:
>Does anyone know where the Smokey Hill RR Museum is?  Is it in Kansas City,

Operations are in downtown Belton. RI E6A #630 does a push/pull thing
several times each weekend.

Name is now The Smoky Hill Railway and Museum Association, 502 Walnut,
Belton, MO 64012, 816-331-0630 (<-- note last four digits ;-)

John Matrow	Smokey Hill Member #570
		Rock Island Technical Society Editor/Director
-- 
John Matrow   Systems Integration, NCR Peripheral Products Division
 NCR:654-8851 <John.Matrow@WichitaKS.NCR.COM>
(316)636-8851 <uunet!ncrlnk!ncrwic!john.matrow>
 FAX:636-8889 "Call (316)636-8628 to have array info faxed to you"
From: luebeckd@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Ken Luebeck)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Engineer Run Over By Own Train! (was Re: NS bridge/Kids Accident)
Date: 12 Dec 1992 05:39:01 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Reply-To: luebeckd@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Ken Luebeck)
NNTP-Posting-Host: o233-30.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

In article <Bz2q9t.4Hu@vcd.hp.com> dmunroe@vcd.hp.com (Dave Munroe)  
writes:
> In article <1992Dec8.122028.198@gems.vcu.edu> hleaves@gems.vcu.edu  
writes:
> 
> 		[ a whole trainload of deletions ]
> 
> >He climbed out
> >on the front of the engine and just as the train got to the child he  
jumped off
> >knocking the child down between the rails. He lay on top of the child  
while the
> >train passed overhead. They both survived with only minor injuries.
> 
> [Stuff deleted]                                   What kind of engine
> was this that provided ground clearance for the two of them?
> 
> -Dave

I heard this story once too. However, the way I heard it, the train did  
not un directly overhead (i.e. the the crewman and the child did not lie  
in between the rails). Rather, the crewman jumper so that he would end up  
to the side of the train. However, the train still would have passed by  
extremely closely.

Ken Luebeck*
From: grob@chorus.fr (Lori S. Grob)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Italian railways--is 1st class worth it?
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:41:05 GMT
Organization: Chorus systemes, 6 av. Gustave Eiffel, 78182 Saint-Quentin-en-Yvelines, France

In article <8069@skye.ed.ac.uk> ken@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Ken Johnson) writes:
>
>In article <lipqk5INN8c0@news.bbn.com> rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman)
>writes:
>
>#  I will be travelling to Italy in a few days and expect to ride one or
>#  more of these routes: Milan-Rome, Rome-Florence, Florence-Venice,
>#  Venice-Milan. 
>#  
>#  Is it worthwhile to buy a 1st class ticket on any of these?
>
>
>Unlike British practice, certain FS (Italian) trains are first-class
>only, so if oyu have a 2nd class ticket you cannot ride on the train.  I
>believe all Rapidi are 1st class only.  If you are riding Milan-Firenze
>you should definitely go on the Settebello, which is the most beautiful
>train in Europe (VSOE not excepted) and costs about double the 1st Class
>fare. 
>
>               -- my dad  1906-1992    || E-mail ken@aiai.ed.ac.uk                                                     ||                                                                              ||                                                                              || GIZZA JOB

Its not true that the rapidi are all 1st class.
There ARE trains that are all 1st class, like
the new extremely thin train that a previous
poster described. This train is somewhat faster
than the rapidi but I think a much less
pleasant experience, maybe I am spoiled by the
TGV but for my money the rapido is the nicest
train experience and while the other train is
fast its not as fast as the TGV and no where
near as comfortable. 




--
L.S. Grob
Chorus syste`mes			phone +33-1-30-64-82-17
6 avenue Gustave Eiffel			fax   +33-1-30-57-00-66	
F78182 Saint Quentin-en-Yvelines	email grob@chorus.fr	
--------

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: saevans@l_cae13.icaen.uiowa.edu (Scott A Evans,,,)
Subject: Re: Switch Heaters?
Originator: saevans@l_cae13
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:59:23 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

> 	Not exactly built in, more of an "add on", in my obervation.  Can be
> 	"raw flame" (LPG, etc) or the less visual Electric Strip.
> 
A couple of springs ago I was on Amtrak going through Dallas, and noticed that
even down in Texas, they have switch heaters.  These looked like they were
fuel oil heaters, as they were burning with a yellowish sooty flame.  Quite
a site to see switch heaters as far south as Texas!

-- 
                                              / /  *\  
          Scott A Evans                      /0/ __O/  
     (saevans@icaen.uiowa.edu)      |TTTTTTTTTTTTTT\\T| 
       Grad Student For Life        |IIIIIIIIIIIIIII\\|  
     Sparks and Magic forever!      |      / \      / \  
                 o                  |     /  /      \ |\
              _ /-_                 |                 |  
             (_)>(_)             --------------------------
From: 737ochs@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Tunnel Motors
Date: 14 Dec 92 21:54:28 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <6092@sumax.seattleu.edu>, daveike@sumax.seattleu.edu (Eickerman) writes:
> 
> Some people mentioned the Tunnel Motors that DRG&W and SP bought.  What
> amazes me is that they have cabs.  The theory is that they were designed
> to be used in the back of a consist of locos, thus they wouldn't need a
> cab.  I have also seen pictures of SD40T-2s leading the pack of 'normal'
> locomotives through tunnel country.  It would seem logical to save money
> and not put the cab on or the controls, and just make it a B unit.
> 
> What do y'all think?

Actually as far as I know, that isn't the theory behind Tunnel Motors.
The theory of them is to take in air below the normal place. Normally,
EMD's take the air in at the to of the hood and blow it out the roof.
In tunnels, they take in the hot air they just blew out. So they reconfigured
the cooling system to take in air at the bottom, and also made the fan one
large fan instead of 3. It has more of a GE look to it, without the wings.
EMD has used this desing on engines other than the SD40 and 45's
They also put them on the GP15-1 and GP15T (T here stands for turbocharged)
and also on the MP15,MP15AC, MP15DC and MP15T (again T stands for turbo)

Also, putting a cab on them makes them more versatile. They can run them
on other trains, in the lead, etc. I have seen them over here in Illinois
and Indiana (SP and D&RGW units)

Hope this helps.
Fred
From: plaws@uafhp.uark.edu (Peter Laws)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: AAR Radio List (fwd)
Date: 19 Dec 1992 19:13:44 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu



Somebody posted a list of RR freqs. with the corresponding AAR channel
designators last summer.  The list is especially helpful now since
_Trains_ is now listing AAR channel #s in their articles.  If someone has it
could they Email it to me?  Or repost it.

Thanks...

HAPPY (generic, non-denominational) HOLIDAYS!!

Peter Laws              |"The '90s are gonna make the '60s|plaws@uafhp.uark.edu
n5uwy@ka5bml.ar.usa.noam| look like the '50s"  --D. Hopper|plaws@uafsysb.bitnet



Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jbvb@vax.ftp.com  (James B. VanBokkelen)
Subject: Re: Splitting and Joining Trains: A (Not So) New Idea
Nntp-Software: PC/TCP NNTP
Reply-To: jbvb@ftp.com
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:35:13

In article <1992Dec10.150501.24767@ryn.mro4.dec.com> pierson@ggone.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson) writes:

    Somewhere reputable, I saw the story that they would change engine and
    crew, _without_ letting the train drop below 30 mph.  (not hard, so long
    as modern axioms of safety do not apply....)

And if you don't have air-brake hoses to hook up.

I've read of a number of railroads that did "flying drop" of passenger
cars, but adding a car (or changing engines) has always been described
as taking place at full stop.

The B&M split and combined quite a number of trains during the era of
RDCs.  The last one I recall was a 3-car set, two RDC-1s bracketing
an RDC-9 (no controls, and only one diesel instead of the normal
two).  It would run Boston to Hamilton-Wenham, where the lead RDC-1
would detach and run on to Ipswitch, while the trailing two cars
would return to Boston.  As far as I know, this was the only routine
use of RDCs on the B&M where there wern't control cabs on both ends
of the train.

James B. VanBokkelen		2 High St., North Andover, MA  01845
FTP Software Inc.		voice: (508) 685-4000  fax: (508) 794-4488

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: matthew@sleeper.apana.org.au (Matthew Geier)
Subject: Re: Up and down trains (was CityRail (Sydney))
Organization: Desolation Road Railfan BBS
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:55:16 GMT

eoliver@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au (Eddie Oliver) writes:

>This is because Australia (with the exception of Queensland) has generally 
>followed British practice, i.e. that trains TO the main centre are "up" trains
>and those FROM the main centre are "down".

 This reminds me of a problem I still have with up and down trains - I have
always lived on the 'South Side' of Sydney, thus I got used to the idea that
'up' trains were heading north - topographicaly up. While I know better,
ideas learned while young can be difficult to break. Even now, I occasionaly
get up and down swapped when talking about a northern train.. 
 Never had a problem with the Western network - the fact that the trains
run east/west means that the old north=up idea doent interfere...

 When reporting train movements it is rather important to get the direction
its travelling correct !

-- 
Matthew Geier,
matthew@sleeper.apana.org.au   |  Desolation Road Railfan BBS and Dialup Unix
matthew@cs.su.oz.au (Quicker)  |  (+61) 2 718 6996 ( Ringback )    
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: djmurphy@wam.umd.edu (David Murphy)
Subject: X-2000 Metroliner Trips
Organization: USS Los Angeles  (ZR-3)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 03:25:33 GMT

 
In last Friday's Washington Post there was a story
about the X-2000 publicity run. At the end of the piece is 
info about it covering various Metroliner trips. Starting 
February 1st and for the next two or three weeks it will
leave Washington as the noon Metroliner and will return
from New York as the 4:30 express. After these few weeks
it will leave Washington as the 1 pm Metroliner and return
as the 6 pm out of NYP.  For much of April it will be
the 6:50 am express from Washington and will return in the
afternoon, no time given, as an express.  Prices will
be the same on this train as on the regular Metroliners.
Amtrak advises calling ahead to find out the exact schedule.
 
As the X-2000 will be covering a regular Metroliner schedule
I'd guess that they won't get to show-off their speed on these
trips. Still, I'm sure Amtrak will be doing surveys about the 
ride and the appointments. Metroliners are nice enough, but
as I understand it these cars are 1st class--wait till the
regular passengers see them.  Will it be a case of the farm
boy and Gay Paris?
 

 
---dave

-- 
  david murphy            I'm a simple man, with complex tastes.
djmurphy@wam.umd.edu    uunet!haven!wam.umd.edu!djmurphy  (NeXT)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879)
Subject: Re: Switch Heaters?
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 14:22:31 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

From article <1gh3o1INNog1@hp-col.col.hp.com>,
by tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke):
> 
> Do switches have heaters built into them to allow them to function in
> very cold weather?

Certainly!  In and around Chicago, during a cold snowstorm, the flames
around the switches in major rail yards are quite a sight.  The old
technology for switch heaters involves kerosene burners snuggled up
against the rail, typically built of sheet metal.  LP gas seems to have
displaced this in newer installations, but those aren't as scenic looking.

					Doug Jones
					jones@cs.uiowa.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,rec.models.railroad
From: k203002@smog.DKRZ-Hamburg.DE (Markolf Gudjons)
Subject: Re: diesel terminology questions
Organization: Deutsches Klimarechenzentrum GmbH, Hamburg
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 12:00:35 GMT

In article <60562@donald.WichitaKS.NCR.COM> msjohnso@donald.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Mark Johnson) writes:

>>What are ``lift rings'' used to lift?
>"Lift rings" are actually used to lift the locomotive.  They are chassis
>hardpoints that allow a traveling overhead crane to pick the loco up
>and move it about. 
Not quite. You mean lift pads. Lift rings are actually small wire loops
welded to the hood sections on diesel locomotives. They are used to lift
off parts of the superstructure for maintenance.

- Mark
     
    ___________        Markolf Gudjons
   / |  |8|  | \ 
  /  +-------+  \              k203002@neptun.dkrz-hamburg.dbp.de
  |[][__] [__][]|
  |[]+-------+[]|
  |  |   |   |  |
  |  |   |   |  |      "CRR 3612, 2nd Moss, 101-0-9850, calling Dante..."
  |--|   |   |--|
  |  |   |   |--|
  ===============
  (--__|=*=|__--)      #include <std.disclaimer.h>
  (     ---     )      All opinions are my own. Won't buy, sell, or trade.
   (-----------)
    ^         ^
Xref: sparky rec.railroad:9857 rec.models.railroad:2685