HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: body memory
Date: 21 Dec 92 20:33:20 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
NNTP-Posting-Host: DWOVAX


ek@patty.gud.siemens.co.at (Ernst Krudl) writes...
>With learning a new form/kata I usually experience body memory: I can not
>recall the form in my mind, but once I start to repeat it, I realize
>it is still there. 
>Can anyone explain this on a medical/biological level (or any other), please !

I can't explain it, but it seems interesting to discuss.

There is some evidence of sensory channel-specific memory of a sort.

Several popular models behavioral 'strategies' (after Pribram, Miller,
Galanter) as having components in specific senses; kinesthetic or body sense
being one of these.    One of these models, found in Neurolinguistic 
Programming, would probably either explain your experience in terms of 
preferences for kinesthetic tests rather than visual ones in your performance 
strategies, or in terms of the visual tests being below the threshold of
consciousness at this point.

The practical implication, in NLP terms, *might* be that teachers are
best advised not to try to teach you by way of visual metaphor, since you
don't seem to organize your kata performance that way, at least initially.
That's useful for a teacher to know.  Some people prefer to organize their
performance visually (even though they certainly have the capability to
remember kinesthetically as you are doing).  

Eventually, most people use primarily kinesthetic memory and tests, I think, 
once the kata is learned very well.   An expert performer can do the kata
blindfolded, without visual reference points or even with confusing visual
reference points.  A novice performer is frequently confused simply
by asking them to start facing a different wall.

						kind regards,

						todd

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Todd I. Stark				  stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com           |
| Digital Equipment Corporation		             (215) 354-1273           |
| Philadelphia, Pa. USA                                                       |
|  "I'm in a hurry, I don't know why.  All I really gotta do is live and die" |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Date: 25 Dec 92 21:43:10 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) writes:
>
>>>	As a matter of fact, I know a Hapkido instructor who successfully
>>>gained control of and pinned a PCP'ed assailant for about 15 minutes, until
>>>the police came. He claims that while the guy had lots of strength, it was very
>>>"shallow", and *extremely* easy to manipulate him.
>
>Now THIS is really interesting.  I've never heard about a similar 
>incident.  Can you give us details?  How much did each person weigh?
>Was either already injured?  How long had PCP-madman been running
>amok?  What control was used?

     I'd like to point out that the idea that PCP causes violence is
mostly urban folklore. From _Drug Abuse and Drug Abuse Research_, an
annual report to congress by the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human
Services, pg. 153. (1991):

        "There are two aspects to phencyclidine (PCP) intoxication that
        have warranted particular attention by the general public, as well
        as by law-enforcement and clinical personnel.  Both aspects concern
        the relationship between phencyclidine abuse and aggressive 
        behavior.  There are reports of increased aggressiveness and 
        'super-human' strength that develop in some people who take
        phencyclidine.

        Recent studies, including those of men arrested for criminal
        activity in Washington D.C. and New York City (Wish 1986) and
        evaluations of published clinical reports of phencyclidine
        intoxication (Brecher et al. 1988), indicate that if 
        phencyclidine induces violent, criminal behavior, it does so only
        extremely infrequently.  

        Although Wish (1986) noted that most men who had urines positive
        for phencyclidine were younger than those who had taken no drugs
        or other drugs, their crimes were likely to be less aggressive
        than the crimes of those who had not taken phencyclidine.  
        Khajawall et al. (1982) found no difference in the behavior of
        clients admitted for phencyclidine detoxification and those
        admitted for opioid detoxification.  Thus, phencylidine-induced 
        aggression appears to be a rare phenomenon, if it occurs at all."

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@cs.umd.edu  |  "Born to die"   |   Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
                     Keep your values off my family.
   "All I kin say is when you finds yo'self wanderin' in a peach orchard,
    ya don't go lookin' for rutabagas." -- Kingfish
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Little pig, little pig, let me come in...
Date: 28 Dec 1992 01:40:51 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec24.061519.28698@reed.edu> todd@reed.edu (Todd Ellner) writes:
>So, let's see. The Psycho-ex-Boyfriend is trying to break down the door
>and do our hero/ine.

He stipulated several times, me first, then her.

>What do you do? 

Hope the door holds.

>It could be a really good reason to leave by the
>back door/window/wall

No back door.  The bathroom window had security bars (crappy neighborhood).

>and call the cops or a couple of friends from a nearby phone.

She didn't want to call the cops (didn't want pot-growing next-door neighbors
to get in trouble).  Friends next door were only marginally useful.

>If neither of these is practical I think it would be an
>excellent, nay, textbook case of "Well officer, he was breaking into my
>house.

Wasn't my house.

>I was in fear for my life, and I couldn't get away. Shucks, I just
>had to {shoot|knife|behead|baseball bat} him as he came in."

Much as I would have liked to, I had to defer to the wishes of the friend in
whose apartment the aforemention events transpired.  Predictably, she still
wuvs him.

>I really don't think the DA would prosecute.

I have never had the opportunity to meet any member of the DA's office.
I would prefer to keep it that way.  That was, in fact, my overriding 
consideration at the time.



-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: Thai kickboxing
Date: 31 Dec 92 02:47:54 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.


/(todd)
/Muay Thai is a very worthwhile art to study. The physical conditioning you get
/is second to none and equalled by few. There are not many techniques, but they
/are very street effective, fast, powerful, and simple. 


This is what I was driving at when I said "why would anyone study anything
else"?  I would want something that was clean, simple, and street-effective.

Much of what I found out about taekwondo was that it was impractical in
street defense, because so much of it depended on flamboyant kicking.  
Imagine doing that on a gravel surface with three beers under your belt
(the most common situation where you might have to defend yourself to
begin with).


/Muay Thai also has a
/steep learning curve; you can pick up the fundamentals  quickly and get some
/self-defense skills in a relatively short time  


Again, good news.


(todd)
/Muay Thai training methods develop several important attributes effectively.
/Much of the training centers around the Thai pads, heavy bags/pads strapped
/onto the forearms of your training partner. You punch, kick, knee, and elbow
/the pads in response to and while defending yourself from your partner. I have
/found that the training keeps me on my toes, develops stamina and the ability
/to hit hard in a dynamic fashion, more like a fight than other training
/methods I have encountered. 

Why is this better / more dynamic than other kinds of sparring?   Are the 
motions simpler / more instinctive than other MA? If so, does that let you 
concentrate less on artistic perfection of form, and more on "getting the 
job done"?  

That would appear to be what you're saying, but I don't want to put words 
in your mouth.




(todd)
/I have also found that the things I hit with
/(knees, elbows, shins, hands) have gotten good conditioning without being 
/damaged like they were by the makiwara, and my ability to fight aggressively
/has improved markedly.

So the padding doesn't interfere with the toughening of the shins, elbows,
etc?  Does the padding create any bad side effects (due to the fact that
in the ring or on the street you won't be wearing padding)?

Also:  makiwara?  




(todd)
/I have gone on for some time about the virtues of Muay Thai _training_ and
/have said very little about the _sparring_. That is because there is very
/little (or no) sparring unless  you actually get into the ring. 

No open sparring, without pads?
From: shaig@Think.COM (Shai Guday)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Pizza Hut Fight
Date: 30 Dec 1992 14:51:31 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: galaxy.think.com

In article <1992Dec29.122521.184@ipact.com>, pals@ipact.com writes:
|> 
|> These guys were definitely a threat to other people around them.  A
|> 200 pound man crashing into a 2 year old in a high chair would definitely
|> cause "collateral damage."  But how could one intervene in this situation
|> without potentially causing more "collateral damage?"  What techniques
|> might be best in such a crowded situation that minimize risk to bysitters?
|> Just protecting your own kids as best possible while getting away from
|> the fight makes the most sense, but some people who were close didn't
|> have that as a realistic option.

As the father of a two year old, I have given some though to the subject.
My preferences were:

1.  If I can distance my toddler from the area, do so.

2.  Assuming (1) is not possible, position myself between
    my toddler and the fracas leaving room for movement on my part.

3.  Any brawler who enters my area should be thrown to the floor
    away from my toddler's area.  The throw should be hard enough
    to prevent him from bouncing up again right away.

4.  Disengage as quickly as possible from each brawler, otherwise
    you may be drawn into the melee.

5.  In the event of a massive brawl in a small area with no obvious
    exit, consider using/reforming the environment:
	a.  A sturdy table on its side may make a useful barricade.
	b.  Force/Break a window and exit through there.

    One of the ridiculous things I once saw in a fire, when everyone
    was running around in a panic and the exit was clogged, were
    people standing and shouting.  My friend and I both threw a chair
    through a plate glass window and calmly exited into the parking lot.

-- 
Shai Guday		| 
OS Software Engineer	| 
Thinking Machines Corp. |
From: jfrost@crash.cts.com (Julian Frost)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Stupid Religious Views
Date: 23 Dec 92 20:13:28 GMT
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA

In article <4436@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>In article <1992Dec22.195153.2593@craycos.com> sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi) writes:
>> Aikido and many kenjutsu systems have significant Shinto components. 
>
>	What are the Shinto components of aikido?
>
>	Anyway, don't y'all know that there's only _one_ true god and
>*that's* Ghu, the Great ?  Really...
>								W.rat
>

Research your Aikido history!!  Morihei Ueshiba, the Founder of Aikido
was a devout believer in Shinto.  He later followed Deguchi Onnisaburo
in the Omotokyo religion.  Some dojos begin by clapping their hands
before doing the bow to O Sensei -- this is a Shinto tradition
(Buddhists rub hands, Shintoists clap).
Julian
From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: bear hug variation
Date: 23 Dec 92 13:49:40 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth


So, your in a bearhug with your arms pinned. They will be in a good place
to squeeze hell out of his goolies, while simultaneously smashing the back of 
your head into his nose disrupting his vision, and stamping hard on the
top
of his foot/feet pushing the resulting splinters of metatarsal (carpal? I
always get these wrong) into the tibial nerve. If he can cope with all this
then you're going to die whatever you do.

If you can get your hands up far enough to hook your fingers under his ribcage
then just wrench outwards. Its guaranteed to make his eyes water a bit.

A bearhug is a poor attack, cos the attacker has taken out all his weapons
except his teeth, while keeping all the attackee's in play.

I like the suggestion about sticking a leg out to disrupt balance as he runs
you into a wall, a corrollary is to tangle his (say) right leg with yours
as he places it while pushing with the left. the resulting spin means he
hits the floor with your weight falling on top. A similar thing I have seen 
with a similar sized opponents is for the attackee simply to bend forward and 
lift the attacker off the floor. Then he is either spun to the floor as above
or run backwards into a wall.

A bearhug is very reassuring, cos while he's got you in one, he cant be doing 
anything else more worrying for a while.

***HUG****
(now what bizzarre newsgroup did I see that in?
From: dudding@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu (Dennis Dudding Avionic)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: DANCE NOTATION - Here's one!
Date: 23 Dec 92 13:51:42 GMT
Organization: College of Engg. & Tech., Ohio University, Athens, Ohio
Originator: dudding@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu


      I have never used "Mannequin Designer v1.0", however the computer
aided design magazine "CADalyst" January 1993, page 68-71 gives a review
of this software.  In my opinion this is what you are looking for.  This
software can draw 3D mannequin-like figures of different sizes and weights.
The body can be posed dynamically and individual screens can be assembled
to simulate animation.

      The price is so reasonable I'm going to try the software myself.

      So everyone interested doesn't have to find the magazine, I'll give
the company's address and phone numbers.

            HUMANCAD, DIV. OF BIOMECHANICS CORPORATION OF AMERICA
            1800 Walt Whitman Road
            Melville, NY 11747

phone:      1-800-437-4441           or      (516) 752-3568
FAX:        (516) 752-3507

list price: $99.00

ask for........
                               Mannequin Designer v1.0


Regards,
Dennis                               "Everywhere you go there you are"
Ohio University Karate Club
Shotokan, I.S.K.F./J.K.A.
From: rtravsky@news.uwyo.edu (Rich Travsky)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: bear hug variation
Date: 22 Dec 92 22:57:42 GMT
Organization: Banzai Institute

In article <MARY.92Dec22095925@martinique.Cayman.COM>,
   mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros) writes:
> In article <1992Dec19.175511.6289@desire.wright.edu>
     jchristian@desire.wright.edu writes:
> 
>    [bear hug stuff deleted]
> 
>    Bear hug from behind, trapping arms by the sides.  Attacker has lifted you
     into
>    the air; 
> 
> [snip]
> 
>    (1)  Dropping your weight, slamming their face with the back of your head,
      and
>    reaching their hands with yours are all nullified (you're in the air, their
>    head is protected, and your arms are trapped just below the elbow).
> 
> But how do you drop your weight?  This is the thing that made me say, "Oooh,
> scary" when I read your description in the first place...because my favorite
> escapes all depend on dropping my weight.  And I can't see how to drop my
> weight, if I'm not partially supporting it to begin with.
                               ^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Good question, but no answers here, sorry.  

Key word here that helps me is "supporting". There _is_ a way, sorta,
to support your weight (if we stretch the definition a tad).

As your opponent lifts you off the ground, place your legs on the outside
of theirs and GRIP. Like a straddle - your right leg on the outside of right
leg, similarly for the left leg (hope this is clear, I'm not knowledgeable 
about that Lambada Dance Notation stuff :). By gripping, you do
have a base of sorts from which to perform whatever actions you feel you
_can_ perform (such as a head butt). You may also be able to grab their 
pants with your hands for added stability and adhesion. This also prevents
them from just dumping you on your butt on the ground. When they do let
go of you, scraping their shins and/or stomping an instep are options.

Richard Travsky
Division of Information Technology     RTRAVSKY @ CORRAL.UWYO.EDU
University of Wyoming                  (307) 766 - 3663 / 3668
	No animals were harmed in the posting of this followup.
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Re: bear hug variation
Date: 22 Dec 92 16:59:45 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA


	I often counter this attack by dropping my hips below his hips 
(yes, of course you need to do this before he lifts you up).  If he
lets go I attack his legs and if he holds on I clamp an arm and roll
him.
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: stranglehold
Date: 22 Dec 92 23:24:40 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <4417@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>In article <4412@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>>>As often as I've this particular choke done to me, the only thing I've found
>>>that is halfway reliable is turning your head and dropping your chin.  But if
>
>	I've got another question:  if you can hit someone hard enough
>to knock them off balance and there's enough opportunity to get both 
>hands around their neck AND accurately position your thumbs for this
>attack, why would you use it and not just a knuckle punch to the trachea?
>To show off? :-)

No, you do it because you're stupid. Big, stupid people can be pretty
dangerous. They kill people all the time. You are just as dead if you've
been killed by a stupid opponent as by a smart one.

The times I've seen folks knock their victims down this way, they've been 
off-balance themselves and have knocked their (usually smaller) victims down 
by the simple expedient of falling on top of them. This, I suppose, provides
the enterprising judoka with an opportunity  for tomoe-nage (the infamous
"Dick Tracy throw").

>	Note that Mary's (?) defense, the sternum strike, also fails
>against this attack, since if you're that off balance you can't
>strike.  This sounds like one of those questions you hear all the
>time: "What do you do if...", like the bear-hug one making the rounds
>now to which the answre is "Don't let it happen, Glasshopper".

Yup.

>Although if it happened to me I'd attack one of the thumbs to break
>the grip - even if I'm off balance and falling I can find my own neck
>with my hands...

I think I'd also be interested in not having the scumbag's head hit me in 
the face on impact. Just a thought...

>	I'm going to rephrase my original assertion and throw the new one
>out to be shot down:
>
>	If someone attacks with the "bad-movie-choke" grip and doesn't
>destroy your balance then you should have plenty of time to counter even
>if she attacks your trachea with her thumbs.  

Depends on relative size and strength. I don't expect to be attacked this
way, but judging from the women I've known who've been physically 
abused it's a pretty frequent method of attack in this case. Against
someone who outweighs you by 70% (say, a 190 lb man attacking a 110lb
woman), there may not be very much time at all - especially since
the difference in upper-body strength may be even greater than the 
difference in overall body mass. 

Having said that,
I think there's a lot of merit to (borrowing an escrima/kali metaphor)
"defanging the snake" in this case by attacking the the thumbs/fingers -
simply because that may be the only target available. Against a large
enough opponent, you may be too far away or too unbalanced to hit much
of anything else.

>	Does this technique have a name, by the way?


Gee, how about "Baka-jime" ;-)

Steve
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Kicking someone's xxx.
Date: 27 Dec 92 16:18:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: martiniq.MARY.92Dec27111856
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: ckuan@fraser.sfu.ca's message of 26 Dec 92 08:24:35 GMT


In article <ckuan.725358275@sfu.ca> ckuan@fraser.sfu.ca (Chiow Min Kuan) writes:

   Hi netters, I am working for a restaurant in downtown Vancouver, Canada.

   I have a question that you might be able to help me. My question is:

	   "Will I be accused of assault for beating the shit out of a
	    customer, if he really, really verbally insulted me?"

Who knows?  If you scare the hell out of him and everyone who witnesses
the assault (for assault it most surely is), it's quite possible that 
you will never be ACCUSED of anything.  But if you do what you say above,
you will most certainly have committed an assault.

   Thanks for the reply, and have a HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

You too.  Try leaving the pride and the testosterone at home, and perhaps
it'll be even happier.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: Gordon.Wormser@launchpad.unc.edu (Gordon Wormser)
Subject: Re: Kicking someone's xxx.
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 13:09:36 GMT

In article <ckuan.725358275@sfu.ca> ckuan@fraser.sfu.ca (Chiow Min Kuan) writes:
>
>Hi netters, I am working for a restaurant in downtown Vancouver, Canada.
>
>I have a question that you might be able to help me. My question is:
>	
>	"Will I be accused of assault for beating the shit out of a
>	 customer, if he really, really verbally insulted me?"


YES.
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: Stovall@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Stovall)
Sender: Jpunix@urchin.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: religion vs. philosophy
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 00:00:00 -0500

SCX>Seems to me that, in practical terms, a philosophical system which
SCX>achieves some kind of spiritual status is not so different from
SCX>religion...Some religions don't rely on the existence of a deity
SCX>(for example) Buddhism...

Okay, semantically, you can call anything from Bushism to Fish
Fetishism a religion. My point is simply that acknowlegement of any
deity is not an intrinsic part of the martial arts.

SCX>many martial arts have a powerful spiritual component...At my
SCX>my current Kung-fu school, there is actually a set of injunctions
SCX>posted on the wall...

It's a common practice in the dojangs of the Korean disciplines as well.

SCX>...Is it possible to discuss the spiritual aspects of MA
SCX>training without dragging in the religions and philosophies which
SCX>serve as their foundation?

Sure. The spiritual aspects of the MAs are not necessarily related to
religion: philosophy, yes; religion,no.

Peace in our time,

Tom Stovall

___
 X SLMR 2.1a X To teach is to learn twice...