From: kalki33!system@lakes.trenton.sc.us
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Spirit in the light o
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 04:20:23 EST
Reply-To: kalki33!system@lakes.trenton.sc.us
Organization: Kalki's Infoline BBS, Aiken, SC, USA

lyeh@alleg.edu (Hun Lye) writes:

> The Buddha did NOT invent the philosophy of the "void."  If you imagine  
> that the "void" or emptiness (sunyata) taught by the Buddha is something  
> he invented or created, you have totally missed the point.  Emptiness is  
> about the true nature of things.  Whether Buddhas appear or not, things  
> are still empty.  Emptiness, far from denoting "nothingness," refers to  
> the state of things where they are empty of a substance or a "self."   
> Things are without "self."  Is this negative?  No, Nagarjuna explicitly  
> states that precisely because things are "empty of a self-nature," they  
> can exist.  It is positive - you can change from a state of suffering to  
> that of liberation because you do not have a "self-nature."  If there was  
> a "self-nature," then you are stuck in whatever state you are in!

Are you without self? Are you emptiness? Are you not stuck in the state
you're in? If your statements were not so damaging to the spiritual
welfare, I should laugh at this useless jibberish.

What is it that changes from a state of suffering to that of liberation.
What is it that suffers? What is it that is liberated. Is it emptiness?
So, then, this emptiness which is devoid of self-nature, is somehow
experiencing pleasure or pain, right? And then, when it is "liberated"
it somehow experiences that, right? But all the while it is empty and
devoid of self-nature, right?

If I meet you I will break your nose, and then we will see how much this
empty, non-self knows about who is who and what is what. We will see
whether you can word-juggle your way into not having a non-nose that is
not-bleeding.

And you think WE have missed the point?

The statements we make about Lord Buddha are straight from the Vedas,
and they are authoritative.

> Kalki Dasa
> > This is some indication of the meaning of Lord Buddha's descent.
> > Although it sounds contradictory that God Himself should deliberately
> > deny His own scriptures and preach a philosophy of atheism, the
> > contradiction is resolved by realizing that sometimes God acts to
> > rectify an emergency by instituting temporary measures in a certain
> > place at a certain time. Thus although Lord Buddha is undoubtedly God,
> > His philosophy is not complete, and is not meant to be definitive, since
> > it does not refer to God. Therefore it is not followed by those who are
> > inclined toward a personal relationship with the Lord in full knowledge.

> There is always this tendency among Eastern traditions or at least  
> contemporary promoters of these traditions to interpret other religions in  
> terms of their own.  Therefore we have people who claim proudly that they  
> are so broad-minded because they include great masters like Jesus,  
> Muhammad, Moses, the Buddha etc. in their religion.  BUT, i think this is  
> not being broad-minded at all!  You are not accepting these masters on the  
> terms of what they have taught.  Of course you can always claim that their  
> followers have corrupted the original.  But who is to say?  Oh, that's  
> simple - my holy scriptures, or my teacher or my guru.  Convincing?  It's  
> like going to court on a charge of theft and you have your whole family to  
> be witnesses to your innocence.  Convincing?

How can the empty words of an empty non-self convince another empty
non-self of anything?

> Kalki Dasa writes: 
> > A few days ago I posted a list of 64 attributes of Krishna, the Supreme
> > Personality of Godhead. This list contains very specific descriptions of
> > God, drawn from the Vedic scriptures. If you like I will post it again.
> > Or, in another letter, I can discuss some of the direct personal
> > features of God: what He looks like, where He lives, what His pastimes
> > are,...etc.
> 
> Your Vaishnava tradition is a personalistic approach to the Absolute.  And  
> you can of course read everything else through the world-views of that  
> tradition.  My world-view is from the impersonal approach, can I interpret  
> your beliefs in my terms?  Probably not.  Why?  Well, simple:  The BOOK  
> says so.  Your Vaishnava tradition is very faithful to the scriptural  
> truths and that's great.  And you will see everything else through the  
> scriptures.  But the tradition I am familiar with is a "transmission of  
> the mind, a tradition independent of scriptures."  Can I interpret Krsna  
> in my terms then?  Absolutely not.  But why?  Very simple too:  The BOOK  
> says so.   

So, if it's "great" to be faithful to the scriptural truths, then you're
going to be faithful to them, right? Or did your non-full, non-self not
really mean what you non-said?

> By the way, if you are a servant of Kalki avatara, does that mean that you  
> will help Kalki avatara to exterminate the "godless."  Are you trying to  
> do it now through the computer?  Well, I thought Kalki avatara is gonna be  
> on a white horse with a superpowerful sword?  But just for your info.,  
> according to the Kalacakra Tantra, Kalki avatara will come from Shambala  
> (somewhere in Tibet?) and have a "battle" with Mara and his horde and  
> convert the world to the teachings of the Buddhas!  What do you say about  
> that?

Is the Kalachakra tantra a book? If so, then please explain how,
although your tradition is "independent of scriptures", you are now
giving evidence from a book.

And how can an "emptiness" that is devoid of "self-nature" do anything
like what you say Lord Kalki will do?

Yes, we are a servant of Lord Kalki, the real Lord Kalki. Yes, we will
do whatever we can to assist Him in His mission, although He does not
need our help. The Lord is so gracious that He accepts whatever His
devotee offers Him in love. This is for the benefit of the devotee,
since the Lord is not in need of anything.

Of course, this would not appeal to you, since an empty non-self can
only give emptiness to another empty non-self.

According to the Srimad Bhagavatam, Lord Kalki will appear as the son
of the most learned brahmana of Shambala village, whose name is Vishnu
Yasa. When the age of Kali is scheduled to end, Lord Kalki will mount
His horse, who is called Devadatta, and with His huge sword in hand,
will travel around the earth, exterminating the demonic population.
After the demons are gone, the minds of the remaining citizens will
become transcendentally pure, and the Supreme Lord will appear within
their hearts like the rising sun. They will then go about repopulating
the earth, and the two kings, Maharaja Devapi and Maharaja Maru, who
have been sitting in yogic trance in the village of Kalapagrama awaiting
the appearance of Lord Kalki, will assume their posts as rulers in the
dynasties of the Sun and Moon. Thus the age of Satya will begin, and the
Vedic social order will be established in its perfection.

This is the version of Vyasadeva, who wrote the Vedas and who is a bona
fide shaktyavesha avatara of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Sincerely,
Kalki Dasa

(Not a non-servant of not-non-God)


       -------------------------------------------------------
      |  Don't forget to chant:   Hare Krishna Hare Krishna   |
      |                           Krishna Krishna Hare Hare   |
      |                           Hare Rama Hare Rama         |
      |                           Rama Rama Hare Hare         |
      |                                                       |
      |   Kalki's Infoline BBS Aiken, South Carolina, USA     |
      |        (kalki33!kalki@lakes.trenton.sc.us)            |
       -------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:5081 alt.alien.visitors:8054