HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 23:21:04 -0600
From:         "(Michael Day)" <mday@SILVER.SDSMT.EDU>
Subject: Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Jazz, Imitatio, Writing,
              and (?) Memory (1496 chars) (7)

Dan Quigley writes:

>More than just teaching the orator how to memorize
speeches (in fact most of these ars memorativa downplay word
for word
memorization,) these classical rhetoricians wanted the
public orator to be able

to quickly "imprint" as images all that they heard, and then
be able to run
through the information and manipulate it at will as they
responded,
improvising their speeches from both their own topics as
well as from the
topics of their opponents in the debate.  In effect, they
were to create a
mentally written script of pictures, much like a basic scale
of notes within a
given key, and then alter, rearrange, recompose these
elements as the situation

deemed appropriate.

(sorry about the format -- no control over the new system!)

Dan and others:

I am also intrigued by the resonances between and among jazz
improv., imitatio, and the art of memory, the fourth "office"
of classical rhetoric.  For all interested in a fascinating
study of the history of mnemonics from Simonides of Halicarnassus
through Ciceronian rhetoric, and culminating with the memory
theatres of Camillo and Giordano Bruno (based in gnosticism and
the kaballah, no less!), see Frances Yates (1966, I think) _The
Art of Memory_.  I was particularly taken with the rather detailed
instructions (probably starting in the _Rhetorica ad Herrenium_?)
for creating a memory "house", dividing it up into nooks and crannies,
and inventing  "places" (topoi?) in which to store and call up
parts of a narrative at will.  Within the places, one would create
imaginary icons, the details of which would allow one to recall
the particular emotions and even the exact phrasings of the narrative.
In a way, even more detailed than the series of notes the jazz musician
memorizes and resequences, but perhaps exactly the process of the
ancient rhetors as they prepared to speak.  Take a look at this book,
if you haven't already.

Michael Day
mday@silver.sdsmt.edu
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Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:48:27 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      CLEP tests and English requirements

 *** Reply to note of 10/13/92 14:01
 WE don't give composition credit for CLEP. Students with high scores can place
 into the one semester intensive course that satisfies what is usually a two
 course requirement. Students must score 500 (1986 scale) on the General Exam
 or 50 with acceptable essay (scored locally) on the Subject Exam to place into
 this course. In six years as comp director I think I only saw two ro three
 CLEP scores, and no one took the subject test locally.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Return-Path: <smh@aal.itd.umich.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 08:26:24 EDT
From:         smh@AAL.ITD.UMICH.EDU
Subject:      Reading ALoud

I often ask students to read aloud, both in class and in writing workshop
here.  That's also how we proceed in my writing group.  I find it helps
me and my students get accustomed to the sound of their words, and
students often can stop in the places that are confused in their texts,
since the confusion makes it hard to read.  Some students are very shy
about this and it takes a while for them to get used to it.  This
isn't exactly evidence, Michael, but I do have an intuitive sense that is
is a useful activity.  And I grow to like it more and more myself as
a writer.

Susanmarie Harrington
University of Michigan
smh@aal.itd.umich.edu
From: KALER@UKANVM.BITNET (Ellen Redding Kaler)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: Reply to M.D's ritualized behaviour
Date: 13 Oct 92 15:43:28 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

jim--
Is there any second hand market for our old CPM Kaypro bundles?  My
basement is beginning to look like a museum for electronic dinos...
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:40:09 EST
From:         Boyd Davis <FEN00BHD@UNCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: End Of The World, Part I
              8 Oct 1992 12:56:15 CDT from <HART@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU>

Michael Hart, I request your written/e-mail permission to post your "End of
the World, Part I" on the private list linking my class in History of the
English Language at U.North Carolina at Charlotte with its sister class at
National Kaohsiung Normal University (Taiwan/ROC) taught by my colleagues
there.  We set up this list for several reasons, one of which is to help
our students begin to have a notion of how global communications and the
history of two world languages (English and Mandarin) are interconnected.
                              Boyd Davis    fen00bhd at unccvm
From: LHAMPLYONS@CUDNVR.DENVER.COLORADO.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Using a VAX with a Mac front end (20)
Date: 17 Oct 92 02:11:20 GMT
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Robert
A student (naturally!) has given me White Pine but so far I can't get it to work
   .
Could it be because I do email at home on my lil' ole overstuffed Mac Plus and
not my bigger/better Uni machine?  At U of Michigan I had (they have) a nice
program InfoX that emulated MSWord--pull-down menus, scrolling, full mailbox
info, etc.  If I could only enetr White Pine maybe that's what it does
sounds of teeth grinding
Liz
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 12:39:48 -0400
From:         Nick.Carbone@WRITING.UMASS.EDU
Subject:      reply to community of teachers

Bob,
    It just occured to me...another facet of having teachers in and out
of eachother's classes is that we see the faces of other students and they
see us, we know each other the way I knew other mom's in my neighborhood
and the way my mom knew other kids--so if someone needs help, and their
teacher isn't around, they can run to their neighbor's teacher and be
just as welcome.

nick.carbone@writing.umass.edu
From: KALER@UKANVM.BITNET (Ellen Redding Kaler)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) RE: RE: ReComposing (13)
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:39:05 GMT
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Jim Macdonald--THis is responding to an old message because I am
recovering from an e-mail backlog that is mainly attributable to
my extended learning curve.  Anyway: I think you are absolutely
right on in pinpointing the lit only bias of graduate departments.
I'm in one.  How do we introduce that needed change?  Sometimes I feel
so marginalized, alienated, isolated; networking here helps me make
the attitudinal shift to feeling like a pioneer, on the cutting edge.
But I _am_ only a graduate student.  What can I do to lead my department
into the 20th century.  Only yesterday I found out about a SECOND FT faculty
person in the department who has discovered e-mail (both female BTW).  I have
proposed a "Graduate Student Colloquium" presentation to the department:
"On-line Encounters of the Literate Kind"--who knows if I'll get scheduled
to present or even seriously considered.  All previous Graduate Student Collo-
quium _PAPERS_ have been lit crit.  And would I get anyone over/out to the
margins if I conduct such a session in the alien territory of the Academic
Computing Center (gasp!) to take advantage of their projection auditorium?
Exciting times, indeed.
From: bmorgan@SILVER.SDSMT.EDU ((Bradford A. Morgan))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: knowledge index and mla
Date: 14 Oct 92 20:56:26 GMT
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Now that Dialog access to the MLA Bibliography isn't available to Internet
 people,
OCLC's EPIC service seems like a good alternative.  It's database no. 71 and has
a connect charge of $60/hour with online display format charges and offline
 print
format charges.  The updates are ten times a year.  BTW, the Internet address
 for
the MLA itself is mlaod@cuvmb.edu

Bradford Morgan
South Dakota School of Mines and Technology
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Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 13:25:41 ADT
Comments:     <12OCT92.14510555.0082.MUSIC@UNB.CA>
From:         Russ Hunt <HUNT@UNB.CA>
Subject:      Re: Alternatives to Daedalus for MS-DOS systems?

>                                 (I think I may have deleted the
> message you sent explaining some of this to Doyle.  Sorry.)  As for
> file conversion, version 2.1 easily converts to WordPerfect 5.x.
     I'll resend that message offline.
> If you want a word processor that's easy to use (like Norton Textra)
> and powerful (like WordPerfect), consider Textra's commercial
> product, Textra 7.0.  (As I understand it, it'll be available
> after Thanksgiving.)  I've seen the beta of 7.0, and it's pretty
> impressive.  Like version 6.0, it has a very good page preview that
> makes DTP tasks easier.  It reads and writes (or is supposed to read
> and write) W.perfect 4 and 5, MS Word 4, Wordstar and others I can't
> remember right now.  And it does table of contents and indexing.
     I bought Textra 6 for some of those reasons, and I guess I'd
consider upgrading.  But WordPerfect seems to have locked up so
much of the market around here (for reasons I don't understand;
perhaps a conspiracy of people who teach overcomplicated word-
processing programs) that I'm being forced to use it.  It has to
do with peripheral arguments for CMC in education generally (we
can justify what we're doing more effectively by claiming it's
giving students "computer skills").  And it remains a problem
that you can't get a site license to put Norton Textra on a
network.
                                    -- Russ
                                _~|__
Russell A. Hunt            _~|__)_ __)~|__   Learning and Teaching
Department of English      )_ __)_|_)__ __)     Development Office
St. Thomas University        |  )____) |        EMAIL: hunt@unb.ca
Fredericton, New Brunswick___|____|____|____/  FAX: (506) 450-9615
E3B 5G3   CANADA          \                / PHONE: (506) 452-7700
                       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 18:32:15 CDT
From:         "(Natalie Maynor)" <maynor@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: ERIC resources online

> A graduate student asked me today to help him connect to ERIC materials
> available electronically.   Clues?

Telnet to acsnet.syr.edu, login as suvm, userid suinfo.
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
From: USERLCBK@UMICHUM.BITNET (Bill Condon)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: C&W Deadline
Date: 15 Oct 92 03:53:54 GMT
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The deadline is Nov 1, Rockie.  Early versions of our call for
papers had the Oct 15 date, but we changed it to Nov 1 to give
folks a little more time to get proposals in.  So crank up those
word processors, folks!  It's not too late!
From: lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Louie Crew)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: ERIC resources online
Date: 8 Oct 92 19:18:36 GMT
Reply-To: <lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Cc: lcrew, carnes


A graduate student asked me today to help him connect to ERIC materials 
available electronically.   Clues?

Thank.

Louie

-- 
  ==========================================================================
  Louie Crew, Assoc. Prof., Academic Foundations Dept., Rutgers U./NWK 07102
  lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu                                   201-485-4503
                            Closets are for prayer!
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:15:42 EDT
From:         Jim Fletcher <ENGJTF@NCSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Textra

Russ,
     Our classroom is not networked and students do not have access to e-mail
except through their own departments if available; therefore, I have not had
the problems that you mention.  I can, however, offer a bit of hope.
     Textra is coming out with a network version.  Early this summer, shortly
after C&W 8, I was sent a demo by W. W. Norton.  The program is called *NOW*
and I imagine that they would be happy to send demos to interested parties.  I
do not know when they plan to release it.
     I use Textra 6 almost exclusively--I dropped Word Perfect and never looked
back after being introduced to Textra a couple of years ago.  My wife recently
used it to do her thesis, but only because of compatibility problems between
the various machines and printers she was using.  I finally convinced her to
use it and, when she finished, she told me: "I didn't want to use Textra
because you sing its praises so highly -- but its WONDERFUL."  So here I am
tooting their horn again.
     I anxiously await the forthcoming Textra 7.  I hope that *NOW* comes out
soon and fulfills your needs.  I'll send a message to the man at Norton who
sent the demo and ask when they expect its release.

           Jim Fletcher
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 00:35:56 CDT
From:         Eric Crump <C509379@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: End Of The World, Part I (*MBU*) (1)
              11 Oct 1992 16:59:14 -0400 from <lv08+%ANDREW.CMU.EDU@CARNEGIE>

On Sun, 11 Oct 1992 16:59:14 -0400 Lili Velez said:
>Is it just me, or is there something odd about someone writing from
>Project Gutenberg, the copy-text-into-_our_-medium people, saying that
>their message may not be copied without written permission?
>
Nope. Me, too. Shows, doesn't it, that print ain't quite dead yet and
still has a couple of bullets in the chamber so we'd best be careful
about kicking the body.

It's really an interesting situation, though, and I'd like to talk
more about the tensions among vying media and the various grips
each has upon the other, but it's mighty late, eyelids droooping,
fingers stumbling drunkenly across the keyboard. Time to goodnight.

--Eric Crump
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Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 21:52:12 -0600
From:         LHAMPLYONS@CUDNVR.DENVER.COLORADO.EDU
Subject:      Re: CLEP tests and English requirements

We don't give credit for CLEP
Liz Hamp-Lyons
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
From: maynor@Ra.MsState.Edu (Natalie Maynor)
Subject: Re: ERIC resources online
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 01:40:14 GMT

"David H. Roberts" <DHROBERT@SAMFORD.BITNET> writes:

>Natalie:  can bitnet users get access to the ERIC online collection?

Sorry to be so slow in replying.  I read MBU on usenet and sometimes get
so busy with regular list mail that I don't make it to usenet for several
days.  I guess that's a pretty lengthy preface to my answer to your
question:  I doubt that it could be accessed from bitnet.
--
   Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:09:00 EDT
From:         Ann Green <USERTFSH@UMICHUM.BITNET>
Subject:      Community of learners

Bob,  At Jackson teachers in computer classrooms have student lab consultants
who can work with them all semester or as needed.  The fluid nature of these
classrooms (more like a lab at times) means that people come in and out.  We
have visitors, other teachers sit in, other students sit in, students'
children attend on occasion (pre-school to high school range), admins may
wander by and wave and drop in for a few minutes. Entirely different from the
closed-door nature of my former classrooms.  Ann/JCC
From: peckham@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU ((Irv Peckham))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: Textra
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:53:35 GMT
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X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Ditto for Joel's comment on Word.  I'm good at both and
Word far outdistances WP.  I say this not because I'm
looking for easy programs.  I managed to master Perfect
Writer back in the binary stone age.  Just think WP is
a bit like the early Wordstar.  Anxious to try TExtra.
--
Irvin Peckham
Internet: peckham@unomaha.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 09:09:45 CDT
From:         Wes Chapman <WESCHAP@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Pat Schroeder and Higher Education

One way to bring home to Schroeder the point that her "average" salary has no
realtion to the experience of the large majority of college professors would be
to do the same kind of analysis for the country as a whole.  Anybody know how
to find out what the average salary for the country as a whole is, inlcuding
all the fat cats?  You can bet that that average is much higher than any figure
the "average" person can relate to.  I'd love to write Schroeder a letter
asking if she thinks the average American is overpaid . . . .source of figures,
anyone?  Has anyone downloaded the census from Gutenberg?
enough of this bs,
      Wes Chapman
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:16:14 EDT
From:         rselfe@MTU.EDU
Subject:      mandatory portables

There have been suggestions at University computer meetings at MTU (just
suggestions mind you) that we could reduce overhead (supporting computer
labs), solve some of our computing $ problems, and put personal computing
in the hands of students by mandating that they all have access to portable
 computers (of a certain power and of one or two varieties) when they come
to school.

I know that several universities have tried this.  Some have tried,
recanted, and tried again.  Do any of you live at institutions that have
this policy.  What are the advantages and/or your concerns?

As a lab director, I find this idea suspect.  There are communities of
students involved here, not just machines.  I also wonder about
compatability issues that make my hair stand on end.  Still, I'm trying to
be OPEN about the whole idea.  With students buying in mass, you could get
amazing discounts on hard/software.

I'm interested in all comments.  Even humorous ones slightly off topic.

Better send those to me personal address: rselfe@mtu.edu.

___________________________________________
Dickie Selfe              rselfe@mtu.edu
Humanities Dept.          906-487-3225
Michigan Technological U.
Houghton, MI   49931
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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 10:45:28 EDT
From:         Roni Keane <VKEANE@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject:      two queries

1. Does anyone know if the Community College of Philadelphia is on bitnet or
internet? If not . . .

2. A friend from Philadelphia and I are looking for a place to meet half-way
between there and Bayshore, Long Island so we can discuss our work-in-progress
on a regular basis.That place mid-way is around Staten Island. Can anyone
suggest a place?

             Wishing we all had access to e-mail,

                                        --Roni
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 11:05:00 CDT
From:         "(McDonald James C)" <jcm5337@USL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Outputs

David, thanks for the input/output information.  I'm not sure that I can make
much use of that here.  We're a teaching institution that is trying to transform
itself into more of a research institution mainly by increasing the demands for
publication or creating demands for publication in positions that did not
require publications in the past.  Your strategy seems designed for an
institution with a well-established and adequately funded research function.
  I will pass this along to LSU faculty, who are in the midst of making a case
for tenure-line teaching faculty, with little or no publication responsibilities
LSU has a large adjunct faculty, and many in the English Department have been
working to make a case for tenure and comparable salaries and benefits.  They
might be interested in the formula you are developing.
  I'm supposed to meet with officers of the Louisiana AAUP over the weekend,
and I will suggest sponsoring and organizing days for regents and legislators
to visit campuses.
   Jim McDonald
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Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 09:55:00 MST
From:         Doyle Burke <BURKE@MC.BITNET>
Subject:      Textra

Nancy,

Yes, Norton Textra it is.

For the money ($28.00), I don't know of a better word-processing
software on the market (unsolicted testimony, for which I receive
no remuneration from Norton nor in which company I have stock).


Doyle Burke
Mesa Community College (AZ)
Burke@MC
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Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 01:44:48 EDT
From:         Roni Keane <VKEANE@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject:      Re: End Of The World, Part I

Boyd,

I'd be interested to know how the histories of English and Mandarin are
interconnected.Or is this something you folks are trying to discover?

                                  --Roni
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Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 12:45:25 CDT
From:         Eric Crump <C509379@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Reply to Re: Community of Teachers?
              10 Oct 1992 09:55:34 CDT from <peckham@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>

On Sat, 10 Oct 1992 09:55:34 CDT Irv Peckham said:
>am suggesting, I guess, that the problem may not be with the medium;
>it may be us.

Sure is. But we made the medium. We are it. It are us. And it/we are
probably changing us as we speak. if I remember rightly, Ong says
there's really no such thing as primary orality once a society has
become literate. There's still orality, but it is secondary,
tranformed by literacy. Same sort of thing is happening now as
print gives way to electron as the dominant medium. But orality
(tertiary?) will still be with us, and so will print, but changed.
So, maybe face-to-face interactions in classrooms, too, will be
influenced by the computer. Makes sense to me, anyway.


--Eric Crump
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