HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ted@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca (Ted Powell)
Subject: Re: Urantia? What's the story?
Summary: Ref to Martin Gardner columns
Organization: Entropy Limited, Vancouver Canada
Distribution: world,local
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 06:50:24 GMT

In article <10DEC199216252088@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu> lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard) writes:
>In article <724020821.40000.D_NIBBY@UNHH.UNH.EDU>, D_NIBBY@UNHH.UNH.EDU (Dana   Nibby) writes...
>> Can anyone tell me what the story is behind the Urantia book? I was
>>mailed one by a net-person, and all they said about it was "you're on
>>your own." Flipping through it, it looked like more pulp sf, similar in
>>style to scientology. I'm aware that there's a bitnet Urantia Book list.
>>Can anyone provide me with a skeptical sketch of this book, it's 'authors,'
>>history, etc? Anything you might care to offer.
>
>Martin Gardner has written a couple of columns on the Urantia book in
>the _Skeptical Inquirer_, discussing its origins.  Both within the last
>couple of years or so.

Three of them: "The Great _Urantia Book_ Mystery", "Urantia, the _Titanic_,
and a PPO, Part 1", and ditto Part 2. They appear as chapters 8, 13, and 14
in:
On the Wild Side
Martin Gardner
Prometheus Books
ISBN 0-87975-713-2
Q173.G353  1992

Chapter 8 includes an addendum to the original column. One of the things
Gardner uncovered was the identity of the "channeler" of this tome, namely
Wilfred C. Kellogg (nephew, or half-nephew, or something, of the cornflake
Kellogg). The people concerned with the production of the Urantia Book were
mostly (ex-)Seventh-Day Adventists, accounting for the amount of Adventist
doctrine to be found in the book.

"On the Wild Side" includes 16 _Skeptical Inquirer_ columns, 8 reviews
(including "The Last Temptation of Christ"), and 8 essays (including a
tongue-in-cheek "How to Test Your PK"). Many of the chapters have addenda.
Nice picture of M.G. on the back cover, too. 
-- 
ted@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca   {ubc-cs,uunet}!van-bc!eslvcr!ted   (Ted Powell)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp)
Subject: Re: Biblical Inerrancy?
Organization: LA&W RR
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 18:21:12 GMT

In article <85701@ut-emx.uucp> bill@bessel.as.utexas.edu (William H. Jefferys) writes:

>I have not altered my position that it is illegitimate to attempt
>to discredit someone's argument by appealing to personal characteristics
>of that person, whether they be his religion, his beliefs, or whatever.
>Neither Bill Gripp nor his defender has addressed that issue.
>The fact that Bill was directly responding to Carl does not
>alter the fact that his comment was directed towards the veracity
>of what Avi said.

>#If you follow Avi's posts on various threads you will see that he sides
>#with skeptics against Christians when it comes to NT issues, with
>#Christians against skeptics when it comes to OT issues.  Problem is he
>#uses the same types of arguements to argue both sides, e.g. the NT is
>#invalid due to inconsistancies, the OT is valid due to its lack of
>#inconsistancies.  The OT is inspired by God, the NT isn't.  Etc.
>#Although most "religious" Jews do not agree with Christianity (and I can
>#understand and accept that) few exhibit the degree of outward (shall we
>#call it) "zeal" demostrated by Avi.

I thought this last paragraph explained it.  It's not a matter of
religion, it's a matter of being consistently inconsistent.  =B^)



Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: roelle@uars_mag.jhuapl.edu (Curtis Roelle)
Subject: Re: Hoagland? What's the deal?
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
Date: 21 Dec 92 21:53:58 GMT

graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM) writes:

>In article <1992Dec18.145633.15270@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com>, mccreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com (Ed McCreary) writes...

>>He also claims that the only reason the Mars Observer has a camera
>>is too investigate the "face" and that NASA knows something but
>>is keeping the public in the dark.

>What I dread is that NASA/JPL may claim that they could not get a shot
>of the Cydonia region.  This is entirely possible.

>The unfortunate part of this is that their failure to image that region
>with MO will be taken as further fuel to the conspiracy of silence.

>So, I would think that it would be in their best interest, if there
>is no conspiracy, to go out of their way to get images of the region.

On the other hand an attempt by NASA to intentionally image that
particular region -- especially going out of their way to do so
(whatever that means and however they do so) -- with MO can also fuel
the conspiracy of "See there!  Something funny's going on at Mars, and
NASA knows something they aren't telling!"

Even when the inconclusive images are released there would be
statements made that they had been "defocused" to hide the (Choose
one: pyramids, crying statues, line-drawings, crop-circles) that were
shown in the originals, which are now classified Top Secret and
entombed deep in a Vatican catacomb.

It looks like a win-win situtation for conspiracy enthusiasts.

>>Ed McCreary                                               ,__o

>Jim Graham 

Curt Roelle
From: "James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Looking for Daniken sceptic
Organization: Semper Excelsior
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 00:54:00 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

>DATE:   Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:36:52 GMT
>FROM:   Chris Flatters <cflatter@nrao.edu>
>
>In article 92Dec21154013@fleming-03.cs.strath.ac.uk, ssammy@cs.strath.ac.uk (Paul Sammy 4th Year iE/CES) writes:
>>I'm looking for a book that purports to reveal the
>>inconsistencies and downright lies that Eric Von Daniken
>>(allegedly) wrote in his "Gold of the Gods" series.
>>
>>I know it exists (I've read it somewhere), but I'm not sure
>>of the title or the author.
>>I think its called "Gold of the Gods Revealed" or something
>>similar.
>>
>>If possible I'd like a ISBN and a publisher, so I can order it.
>
>I think that this is
>
>	"The Space Gods Revealed"
>
>by Robert (or maybe Ronald Story).  It was published in the UK
>by New English Library but I suspect that it is long out of print.
>
>The section that is alluded to here is actually a translation of
>an article from the German new magazine Stern.  A magazine reporter
>interviewed von Daniken's guide to some South American caves where
>he claimed that alien artifacts were discovered.  It turns out the
>von Daniken never set foot in the caves that he described.
>
>	Chris Flatters
>	cflatter@nrao.edu
Furthermore, the artifacts supposedly uncovered in the cave, displaying 
modern knowledge of anatomy and supposedly advanced surgical techniques,
were created by a local artisan who sells them to tourists.  He has a 
copy of the Time Life Series on anatomy, or something like that, and he 
copies the drawings onto rocks or pots, puts them in the fire to age 
them up a bit, then puts the forsale sign on them.  Ironic that EvD was 
taken in by an ongoing (no doubt still) and prosperous hoax.  They give 
regular tours through this SecretCaveoftheAncients, which is no doubt
how Daniken got his picture in front of the cave entrance.  Probably has 
claustrophobia and didn't go in, or something.  As I recall, EvD claimed 
that he was the first white man (or some such phrase) to whom the cave's 
location had ever been revealed.  The investigators found that the 
guides were more than willing to admit that it was all for a good show, 
and that it was a business they ran to keep the tourists happy.  
The put it all right out in the open.  I saw all this on NOVA, I think.
They tell everybody they are the first to see the cave -- all part of the 
entertainment.  Of course, nobody actually believed it except EvD.
  ,...,.,,
 /666;    ',    jim tims
////;    _~ -   p00168@psilink.com
(/@/----0-~-0
 ;'  . `` ~ \'
  , `    ' , >
;;|\..((   -C---->> Then again, EvD probably knew they were fakes.  Saying
;;| >-  `.__),;;    so, however, would sell precious few of his books.
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: BiosphereII
From: lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard)
Date: 30 Dec 1992 13:14 MST  
Distribution: usa,local
Organization: University of Arizona
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1992Dec30.144509.27202@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu>, jacobson@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Eliot T. Jacobson ) writes...
> 
>Last I heard the ocean was dying, the co-2 was getting
>out of hand, and their farming was a failure.
> 
>Heard on the Leno (formerly Carson) show:  "put scientists
>is a glass bottle and close it... they forgot to poke holes
>in the top!"
> 
>So what is the latest news?

Latest report was in last Thursday's Tucson Citizen, picked up by AP.
The oxygen levels are at about 15%; they will pump in oxygen if it
gets below 13.6%.  Four of the eight "Biospherians" are taking
medication for "mountain sickness."  CO2 levels are at 3,000 ppm.
The news story says that "normal" levels are 21% (oxygen level at
sea level) and 350 ppm for CO2.

Jim Lippard              Lippard@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
Dept. of Philosophy      Lippard@ARIZVMS.BITNET
University of Arizona
Tucson, AZ 85721
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: rdnelson@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger D. Nelson)
Subject: Re: Homeopathy
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 18:40:36 GMT

In article <6762@tuegate.tue.nl> wsadjw@urc.tue.nl writes:
>In article <1hac1cINN4uf@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>>
>>Though I'm definately NOT an MD or possess anywhere near the education 
>>of one, I currently am aware of beta-agonist drugs (Ventolin, Alupent)
>>bronchodilaters (Theophylline) and the corticosteroids.
>>
>>None of these drugs are particularly good for you. I don't want to 
>>have to take them, or even continue to have to be an asthmatic.
>
>Asthma isn't good for you either, and by the time you are 50 or 60,
>you might find out that emphysema is even more unpleasant.  Ask your
>lung doctor about cromoglycates (like Intal or Lomudal).  They reduce
>allergic reactions by blocking the IgE receptors on the mest-cells in
>the lungs.
>
There has been some decent research indicating that some of the
"Behavioral Medicine" approaches are useful in treating asthma, and may
help not only to mitigate symptoms, but in some cases reduce the
fundamental disbalances that underly the syndrome.  Meditation is an
example of a non-invasive therapy with no adverse physical side effects,
that has some potential.  There is very clear evidence that ill effects
of various sorts of stress are mitigated by regular evocation of what
Herbert Benson calls the "Relaxation Response"  in a book by that name.
He and colleagues have recently published "The Wellness Book" which is a
pretty good self-teaching guide to a number of techniques and practices
that can put you in better shape.  I don't think Benson's research
includes asthma specifically, but there are some studies, e.g. Janssen,
in the Nederlands Tijdschraft Voor Integralle Gneeskund, 1989, 5,
586-594, that do specifically examine effects of meditation and some
related dietary intervention on asthma.  Wilson, et al, for Kaiser
Permanente (in press, but I don't know where) showed in randomized
clinical trials that the behavioral approach could reduce office visits
for acute asthma by 27 to 49% depending on the study subgroup.  

Worth checking out I think.

Roger
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: Evidence for advanced causation.
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 21:35:39 GMT

In article <C038Bu.FBv@well.sf.ca.us>, sarfatti@well.sf.ca.us (Jack Sarfatti) writes in part:
|> 
|> Some one just e-mailed me asking for evidence that creation from the future
|> is not a matter of faith but a scientic conjecture subject to falsification
|> according to the Popper test. 

Creation from the future?  X happens before Y because Y made it happen?
How is this distinguishable from "X happens before Y and the events
are unconnected?"

|> Briefly, impressionistically the clues - and
|> they are only clues that appeal to our Sherlock Holmes bent:
|> 
|> 1. the fact that there is a universe at all with all the cosmic coincidences
|> needed for life see Fred Hoyle The Intelligent Universe and Barrow and
|> Tipler's The Anthropic Cosmological Principle.

I can't see anything but a tautology in the Anthropic Principle.  The
fact that we are here implies that it is possible for us to be here.
So?

|> 2. [...]
|> legends of prophecy, 
...which are not intended to be "scientific" explanations in any sense...
|> subjective precognitive experiences, 
...which are psychological experiences that have no necessary relationship
to anything external to the individual...
|> feelings of Divine
|> Inspiration felt universally by all poets, artists, great scientists etc.
...yet more psychological experiences, fallaciously claimed to be universal
without substantiation for that claim...
|> - how's that for a start - all clues in a great mystery               .
Miserable.  Derivative, unoriginal, poorly stated.  No more than a "C", 
if that.

---

  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
From: greenie@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: UFO Discussions on Internet BBS
Date: 23 Dec 92 16:35:37 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club



Attention Internet Users:

There is an Online Service reachable through the Internet that offers 
stimulating conversation and entertainment.  We offer Usenet NEWS and other
local message areas.  We also have File Transfers available for many computer
types, with either modem or network file transfer capability (XMODEM, ZMODEM
and FTP).

We have access to several MUDs including Vincents Hollow, and great
multi-player games such as Conquest, a full-screen space battle game,
and other entertainment sections, such as a CB Simulator and IRC Chat.
We host weekly CB conferences on various topics ranging from education
instruction practices to events on current affairs.  People from all over
the world participate in our message areas - bringing the world closer
together to form a global meeting place.

One of our active local message areas is "Skeptics Abound", where we're
presently discussing and debating the existence of "UFO's".  Pop in and
join the conversation.

We offer Internet access to all users, however Commercial users are
restricted to non-NSFnet access.  Only Educational and Research uses
are permitted over the NSFnet.

TELNET, FTP, MAIL, FINGER, and TALK access is available online.

The name of the system is the IDS World Network.  To access the system;

      Modem:  (401) 884-9002   (high speed numbers available upon request)
      Internet:      telnet ids.net   [155.212.1.2]

Members of the Education and Research community are invited to participate,
as we are constantly looking to link users from these groups together.  We
are presently involved with connecting the State of Rhode Island and it's
K-12 schools to the Internet, and are interested in sharing experiences
with Internet in the classroom.

Andy, green@ids.net
Xref: sparky sci.skeptic:21837 alt.messianic:3770
From: jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.messianic
Subject: Re: Will the -REAL- Christians please stand up? Was: What did Judas betray?
Date: 30 Dec 1992 18:19:32 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/trn/lib/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu

In article <eharbin.725572135@convex.convex.com> eharbin@convex.com (Edward Harbin) writes:
>In fact, it's a Christian society with no established religion. I don't want
>an established religion any more than you do, but I do want a Christian
>country and I observe most of my countrymen are Christian - a state of affairs
>I approve. Even us morons may express a preference - or is that too much
>liberty for your taste?

You are absolutely entitled to express your preference. Its the 
allegation of "fact" that entitles people to question your position.
Is it a "fact" that the US is a "Christian society?" What is the
evidence in suppport of this fact? What is a Christian society?
What is a Christian?

-- 
________________________________________
Jack F. Love	| 	Opinions expressed are mine alone.
		|	(Unless you happen to agree.)
From: rice@sumex-aim.Stanford.EDU (James Rice)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: On God and Science
Date: 28 Dec 92 09:36:02
Organization: Knowledge Systems Lab, Stanford University
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpp-ipc-2.stanford.edu
In-reply-to: joe@csource.oz.au's message of Fri, 25 Dec 1992 10:09:00

In article <725483441.AA06128@csource.oz.au> joe@csource.oz.au (Joe Slater) writes:

   I would be sufficiently impressed by getting *one* universe up and running.
   This, to my mind, illustrates the difference between someone with high-level
   computers who works with AI, and someone who works with accounting packages
   on PCs :-)

   It also demonstrates that it's no use giving the former more expensive
   hardware, because they'll never be satisfied with what they have until
   they can create an infinite set of virtual universes.

   jds

Now I understand the universe.  god has been consing so furiously
that by the time he got to our universe he was running short of
address space.  This explains why my brain seems to spend the whole
of monday mornings GCing desparately.




Rice.

[9:35:  Address space warning... You have only 4 free regions.  Type
 Term-0-S to expose background Lisp interactor 42]
[9:35:  Address space warning... You have only 3 free regions.  Type
 Term-0-S to expose background Lisp interactor 43]
[9:35:  Address space warning... You have only 2 free regions.  Type
 Term-0-S to expose background Lisp interactor 44]
[9:35:  Address space warning... You have only 1 free region.  Type
 Term-0-S to expose background Lisp interactor 45]



.... microcode halt.....
Xref: sparky sci.skeptic:21791 alt.messianic:3753
From: biow@cs.umd.edu (Christopher Biow)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.messianic
Subject: Re: Chuck Missler and imminent Armageddon
Date: 29 Dec 92 15:21:57 GMT
Followup-To: sci.skeptic
Distribution: world,local
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <28DEC199219414469@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu> lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard) writes:

> [a crank sez:]

>2.  In Genesis 49:10, the first letter of each Hebrew word spells out
>(in Hebrew) the message "I am Yeshua, the shepherd king."  (Anyone here
>know enough Hebrew to verify/refute this?)

Once again, from Parsons' Quick Verse:

Gen 49:10  . shebet . . cuwr . yehuwdah . . chaqaq . beyn . regel
           'ad kiy shiyloh bow' . . . . . yiqqahah . . 'am .

Contrary to my previous post, the dots represent "extra" English
words in the King James Version. The above should be the full text.

Putting the first letters together (as best I can with zero knowledge
of Hebrew), I get: 
  
  sh-c-y-ch-b-r-'a-k-sh-b-y-'a

At least one Hebrew term for "shepherd" is "ra'ah tso'n" (tend-flock). 

Perhaps there is some highly creative way of adding and subtracting
vowels to produce the "hidden message." If so, your next mission is to 
find the passage from "The Book of Armaments" describing the 
"Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch" embedded in Deuteronomy. Should 
you fail, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions...
 
--------------------------------------------------------------

The Book of Armaments Chapter One, verses nine through twenty-seven:

And Saint Attila raised the Holy Hand Grenade up on high
  saying, "Oh Lord, Bless us this Holy Hand Grenade, and with it
  smash our enemies to tiny bits."
And the Lord did grin, and the people did feast upon the
  lambs, and stoats, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and
  lima bean-

[Skip a bit, brother.]

And then the Lord spake, saying:
"First, shalt thou take out the holy pin.
Then shalt thou count to three.
No more, no less.
*Three* shall be the number of the counting, and the number
  of the counting shall be three.
*Four* shalt thou not count, and neither count thou two,
  excepting that thou then goest on to three.
Five is RIGHT OUT.  Once the number three, being the third
  number be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade
  to-wards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff
  it.

Amen.


Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.usage.english
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Sarfatti Forteana
Followup-To: alt.usage.english
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 00:14:14 GMT

In article <1hu5biINN10e@hilbert.math.ksu.edu> frandag@math.ksu.edu (Francis Fung) writes:
:That's a neat thing you mentioned about the possibility
:of a word being borrowed backwards. I know of no  example
:of such either, but a borrowing from French to Hebrew is
:a more probable place for such a thing to happen
:given the writing directions. Intriguing question.
:Incidentally, do you by any chance know the
:derivation of the word "Yankee"? Just a non
:sequitur. :) Have fun!

One suggestion is from the Dutch 'John Doe' equivalent, Jan Kees.
I dunno.  Sounds dubious to me, but I expect that's the one you're
thinking of.

Followups redirected to alt.usage.english

G
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Homeopathy
Date: 27 Dec 1992 11:02:18 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1hcq81INN6f1@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM>, greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>I think what you're not hearing is that I'm searching for a way to not 
>have to be an asthmatic the rest of my life. I may have found what
>I'm looking for.

I think what you haven't heard (though you should've heard it if you went to a
competent physician) is that psychosomatically-induced asthma is quite common:
If you believe you're going to have an asthma attack, you're much more likely
to have one (if for no other reason than that the stress of worrying about an
asthma attack is likely to trigger one).  I'm glad to hear that you've found a
means to prevent such psychomatic attacks.  Now, your next step should be to
learn that that's what they are (quite likely) and wean yourself from the quack
"cures" you're taking.

>If I were satisfied with conventional treatment, then most certainly
>I would find a respiratory specialist and closely comply with his
>medical advise and care.

Please:  Try to find a physician who is willing to talk to you about your
illness rather than just prescribing a medication and shooing your out of his
office (and I realize that such physicians are pretty rare;  if you can consult
with a physician who deals with something like diabetes [where the goal is to
make the patient as independent of the doctor, and as aware of how his
lifestyle affects his disease as possible], then you'd be making a good start),
then you're likely to find yourself living a healthy life without any need
even for the homeopathic placebos.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek)
Subject: Re: Hollow Earth
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 07:50:31 GMT

Richard_Plinston@kcbbs.gen.nz (Richard Plinston) writes:

>    Just another book for the Science Fiction section.

I BEG YOUR PARDON!!

You forget-- fiction is expected to make sense.