HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:48:56 PST
From:         "(Coban Tun)" <tun@QUARK.SFSU.EDU>
Subject:      Burma gives foreign tourists grand welcome

UPf  11/10 0851  Burma gives foreign tourists grand welcome

   RANGOON, Burma (UPI) -- A cruise ship carrying some 460 tourists departed
Tuesday after a red-carpet welcome by singers, dancers and smiling hostesses
-- all part of a publicity push to boost tourism in the military-led
dictatorship.
   The passengers of the French liner Ocean Pearl, mostly Americans and Britons,
traveled Monday from Thailand to Rangoon, where Burmese tourism officials have
been eager for business to boost their country's hard currency earnings.
   Burma has been run since September 1988 by its current military dictatorship,
which allowed parliamentary elections in May 1990 but has refused since then
to seat the opposition lawmakers who overwhelmingly swept the balloting.
   The opposition National League for Democracy won its landslide victory
despite the arrests and imprisonment of scores of NLD leaders. NLD
General-Secretary Aung San Suu Kyi, who won last year's Nobel Peace Prize, has
been under house arrest since July 1989.
   The Burmese government designated the current fiscal year as the year of the
economy. A separate ministry recently was created for tourism as part of the
effort.
   Only about 8,000 to 9,000 tourists per year have visited Burma since 1989,
well below the annual average of 40,000 before then.
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Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:31:28 PST
From:         Charles Scheiner <cscheiner@IGC.APC.ORG>
Subject:      Re:Nov.12 Massacre Memorial

Yes, Andri, 200,000 is a BIG number.  That is why people concerned
with human rights are so concerned about the situation in East Timor.
That figure is used by virtually every non-Indonesian government
source (or at least 150,000), and has even been acknowledged by
some Indonesian government sources, such as the Indonesian Intelligence
Chief in East Timor, Gutot Purwanto, in an interview with western
journalists in 1990.  I hope you don't pursue your bet that not
even 1,000 civilians died since the Indonesian invasion -- there
are countless specific incidents of many more than that in a specific
place and time.

One example, quoted from "Indonesia's Forgotten War" by John G.
Taylor (Pluto Press, 1991), page 92:
"When a priest visited the village of Maubisse on 8 March 1979, he
discovered that, according to records contained in the prayer book,
5021 out of a 1976 population of 9607 had been killed." The footnote
reference for this is an article in the Journal of the Society of
Jesuits, Indonesia "Inter-Nos.", April-June 1979.  There are a
truly horrifying number of similar instances.
***********************************************************
Charles Scheiner, Coordinator, East Timor Action Network/US
      P.O. Box 1182, White Plains, New York 10602 USA
Tel.914-428-7299   fax:914-428-7383   cscheiner@igc.apc.org
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Organization: Central Michigan University
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 08:15:40 EST
From:         Elliott Parker <3ZLUFUR@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:      TH: PDP submits Governor elections bill

=======================  Forwarded  Message  ===========================
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 00:34:36+0700
From: Kamol Hengkietisak <kamol@ipied.tu.ac.th>

DESPITE opposition from other coalition parties, Palang Dharma is
to forward to the Government's parliamentary coordinating
committee a bill seeking the election of provincial governors.

PDP spokesman Sutham Saengprathum said yesterday that the party
executive committee had endorsed the gubernatorial bill, which
would first go to the party's screening committee before being
submitted to the parliamentary coordinating committee.

Mr Sutham said the bill carries a provision specifying that a
Royal decree would have to be promulgated for the holding of an
election in any province which is ready for the election.

He said the party felt that governor elections could be held
within two years in Chiang Mai, Nakhon Ratchasima, Khon Kaen,
Nonthaburi, Samut Prakan and Nakhon Si Thammarat.

For the rest of the country, Sutham said elections would be held
in provinces which are ready for it on a case-by-case basis.

He insisted that the party supported the bill in order to promote
the democratic system and to allow people to decide the future of
their own localities.

The PDP's legislative screening committee chairman Thawil Praisont
said the bill was not for elections to be held simultaneously in
73 provinces across the country, but just a blueprint to ensure
that there would be elections in provinces which are ready for
them.

  A party source said that even without the endorsement of the
coalition partners, the PDP would push ahead alone by submitting
the bill to the House.
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 08:40:00 PDT
From:         "Wayne D. Powel" <POWEL@GONZAGA.BITNET>
Subject:      soc.cul.asean

Seasia netters:

My institution recently joined Internet and I am interested in
adding the list soc.culture.asean or other lists related to the
region.  I've looked on the "List-of-Lists" but can not find
an address.  Can anyone help?

Wayne Powel
Assistant Professor
Department of Psychology
Gonzaga University

powel@gonzaga.edu
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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:08:58 PST
From:         "(Coban Tun)" <tun@QUARK.SFSU.EDU>
Subject:      BURMA TROOPS CROSS BORDER TO HARASS REFUGEES

RTw  11/06 0125  BURMA TROOPS CROSS BORDER TO HARASS REFUGEES

    By Sutin Wannabovorn
    BANGKOK, Nov 6, Reuter - Burmese troops have crossed into Thailand and
threatened 2,000 Karenni refugees who have fled over the border to escape a
Rangoon offensive, Thai army sources said on Friday.
    About 100 Burmese soldiers in hot pursuit of Karenni guerrillas were dug
in about two km (one mile) inside Thailand.
    They had sent out patrols to harass the civilian refugees and try to push
them back, the sources said.
    "We are urging them (the soldiers) to pull out of our territory or we will
use force," said one source contaced by phone from Bangkok.
    Fighting has broken out on a long stretch of the border as the Burmese
army takes advantage of the end of the rainy season to attack an array of
guerrilla forces representing ethnic minorities.
    The Karenni are a small tribe related to the more powerful Karen.
    About 2,000 Karenni civilians, most of them women and children, have
sought refuge in Thailand's Maehongson province since the Burmese army
overran a guerrilla camp last Thursday.
    A Thai army source in Mae Sot province, to the south, quoted Burmese
civilians as saying the Burmese army had rounded up about 2,000 people near
the border town of Myawaddi to act as porters.
    They were loaded on to trucks and taken to areas near Kowmura, the Karen
National Union guerrillas' second biggest base. The souces said the move
indicated an assault on the camp was imminent.
    Burmese troops pursuing guerrillas clashed with Thai forces inside
Thailand on Thursday.
    The tension has caused the postponement of a visit to Rangoon by the Thai
supreme commander, Air Chief Marshal Voranat Apichari, planned for Sunday, a
senior army source said.
    The Burmese almost captured the Karen headquarters at Manerplaw in its
last campaign but suspended the assault in May in what the ruling junta
in Rangoon said was a gesture of reconciliation.
    Guerrillas and Burmese dissidents often seek refuge across the border in
Thailand, which has generally maintained cordial relations with the junta.
 REUTER AM JS GD
From: 2huxvalved@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Subject: RE:RE:CAMBODIAN IMPASSE...
Date: 9 Nov 92 10:49:52 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

    Mr.Trocki,

    The problem in Cambodia is not as easy as you think (at least
for the people who live there). It seems that you were a bit 
emotional to Mr. Chan Tran posting.
  
    Well, since the Hallowen is over, why don't you go to Cambodia
and start hunting those Polpot people. 


Sridana W
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Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 20:16:00 EST
From:         "Carl A. Trocki" <CTROCKI@GUVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: VI: Cambodian Impasse can be solved

I wish that people who post messages such as this incredibly vicious
and inhumane "modest proposal" would indicate the authorship.  I'm not
sure who wrote this, but I can only assume that Chan Tran of Vietnam
Insight agrees with it.
        Such a proposal is nothing more than appeasement of the Khmer
Rouge.  They claim that they cannot lay down their arms, because there
are still Vietnamese troops in Cambodia.  Even though there don't seem
to be any Vietnamese troops (no one but the DK has said they exist),
they still point to these Vietnamese civilians in the country, and say
they must go before the Khmer Rouge feels that it is secure for them
to negotiate.  If anyone believes this will satisfy the Khmer Rouge,
then I have this bridge for sale...
        The very idea of moving 2 million people just because a bunch
of killers refuses to abide by the agreement they already signed is
not only ludicrous, but it is monstrous.
        The only obstacle to peace in Cambodia is the Khmer Rouge.
The sooner we start shooting back at them and cut off their supply of
arms, then we will get someplace in the peace process.  There is no
evidence that the Khmer Rouge are interested in anything but a
complete return to power and that cannot be tolerated.
        I think that Chan Tran must be playing some hideous joke on
us.  Halloween is over.  Get real.
                                CTROCKI
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 07:56:15 EST
From:         Elliott Parker <3ZLUFUR@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:      TH: Sexy billboards to be banned

=======================  Forwarded  Message  ===========================
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 00:17:57+0700
From: Kamol Hengkietisak <kamol@ipied.tu.ac.th>


SEXY advertising billboards at bus stops, particularly those
representing women in flimsy underwear, create "undue sexual
excitement" in youngsters and must be removed, Deputy Bangkok
Governor Chaiwat Sinsuwong said yesterday.

The Bangkok Metropolitan Administration will negotiate with
advertisers to get them to to remove the offending advertisements
voluntarily, he said.

Underwear advertisers and others running sexy advertisements whose
contracts with the BMA have expired will be replaced. They will
not be allowed to renew their contracts.

Mr Chaiwat said the BMA's action is a response to the Government's
campaign against sexual exploitation.

The BMA will also begin removing illegal advertising billboards in
"Prachakorn Thai" pavilions. The BMA says they were put up without
its permission.

The Prachakorn Thai pavilions were built at several Bangkok's
spots by Prachakorn Thai Party MPs. There are about 200 of them in
Bangkok.

Mr Chaiwat said he has no idea who allowed advertisers to place
their advertising billboards inside the pavilion or who the
signboard owners are paying fees to.

The Deputy Governor, a member of the Palang Dharma party, said he
is also considering whether the name of the Prachakorn Thai party
put up in the pavilions should be removed.

He said he is contemplating a "political persecution" of the
Prachakorn Thai party, which is the PDP's arch-rival in Bangkok.

Roadside pavilions are BMA property and have to be turned over to
the BMA regardless of who built them, he said.

Mr Chaiwat also warned of a severe tap water shortage in Bangkok
next summer. The Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand is
expected to discharge an extra volume of water from the Bhumibol
Dam for electricity generation, to compensate for the shortfall at
Mae Moh power plant.

District authorities have been told to start looking into the
possibility of digging artesian wells to find water sources of
their own.
From: tran@PEORA.SDC.CCUR.COM (Nhan Tran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Subject: Re: Vietnam Updage - Social Science
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:54:33 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

> From: "(H.H. Nguyen)" <nguyen@TURING.SCS.CARLETON.CA>
>
> 	Greetings,
>
> 	I pray to God that there is a "better legal system" in the
> Socialist Republic of Vietnam today.
>
> 	What I knew was the official line was the Justice, Legislature,
> Executive branches were all under the leadership of the communist party.
> The judicial institutions in the country were then completely paralyzed.
>
> 	In fact, if my memory serves me right, there were no law school
> in the North from 1954, when the communist government was first formed,
> until roughly the 1985-1986 time frame. The Law School of the University
> of Saigon of the Republic of Vietnam was converted to School of
> Economics. To me, it was and still is a mystery how judges were
> trained and their professional quality during the 1954-1986 period.
>
> ... [deleted]

I wonder what foundation the legal system in Vietnam is based on? The concept
of freedom, of human rights, ... ?? or whatever fit the interst of the
communist party. Whatever the communist party say is final, is THE LAW ??

Nhan Tran
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Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:16:57 EST
From:         Daniel <AGE137@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Re:Nov.12 Massacre Memorial
              12 Nov 1992 17:31:28 PST from <cscheiner@IGC.APC.ORG>

Where is that 200 000 number come from
isn't it come from some number which are a lot smaller than that
and later on got exagerated by other people
Did people ever got the body count or is it just estimate by somebody
and then another people thought it was more and add some more
I read some article about this which mention those number was
not true (sorry I don't recall the article name right now I'll try
to find it later)
can you support those claim with some cross reference (not just
reference which agree with you but also which contra with you) ?

Daniel Saputra (age137@ukcc.uky.edu)
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 10:32:24 -0500
From:         Nhan Tran <tran@PEORA.SDC.CCUR.COM>
Subject:      NEWS/VN: Philippine minister arrives for talks in VN

11/10

PHILIPPINE MINISTER ARRIVES FOR TALKS IN VIETNAM

    HANOI, Nov 10, Reuter - Philippine Foreign Minister Roberto Romulo arrived
in Hanoi on Tuesday for talks with Vietnamese officials on closer economic ties.
    "It is my hope that this visit will create a further step in increasing
mutual understanding and cooperation between our two countries," Vietnamese
Foreign Minister Nguyen Manh Cam told Romulo upon his arrival.
    Romulo is the most senior Philippine official to visit Hanoi since
then-Foreign Minister Raul Manglapus in 1988.
    Communist Vietnam has launched a campaign in the last two years to forge
new economic and political ties with its capitalist neighbours in southeast
Asia.
    Romulo was due to meet Vietnamese Prime Minister Vo Van Kiet, President Le
Duc Anh and other officials during the visit, which ends on Saturday.
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 12:49:04 EST
From:         RDRLIST <MAYOT09@SNYNEWVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Malaysian Students Association (fwd)

Hi there,
    I'm a Malaysian student at Suny at Paltz.  As far as I know, there are
only 3 Malaysian student over here.  We had MSA but because most of the
students have gone home.  However, I'm willing to keep in touch with you guys
over there.

sincerely...

Henry Mayot
From: yloke@.ee.ualberta.ca (Yan Loke)
Subject: Just Wondering.......
Originator: yloke@edson.ee.ualberta.ca
Organization: Dept. of E.E., U of Alberta, Edmonton,Canada
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 15:45:56 GMT

I am just wondering if there any people in Singapore, Malaysia,
Brunei or Hong Kong that read articles in this newsgroup...
Just want to touch base with people there

Yan Loke
yloke@ee.ualberta.ca
From: 3ZLUFUR@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU (Elliott Parker)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Subject: TH: Govt investigates welfare officials
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:31:08 GMT
Organization: Central Michigan University
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=======================  Forwarded  Message  ===========================
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 00:14:45+0700
From: Kamol Hengkietisak <kamol@ipied.tu.ac.th>


A COMMITTEE looking into the murder of a prostitute at Songkhla
town hall has proposed to Interior Permanent Secretary Anant
Anantakul that two public welfare officials and two policemen be
investigated.

Committee chairman Niphon Bunyapattaro said an investigation
should be carried out into actions taken or not taken by
provincial public welfare chief Prapat Hongthong, a C-5 social
welfare official, Thanit Chuaychuchart, Pol Capt Kasem Chindaywah
and Pol Lance/Corporal Sukhum Thongnui. These four individuals
were on duty at the time of the murder.

The committee ruled that Songkhla Governor Veerachai Naewboonnien
and his deputy Banyat Chanthanasen "played no part in this
wrongdoing", for the reason that the governor was attending a
meeting in Bangkok at the time and had been in office for less
than five weeks, and the deputy governor had "done his best on
this controversial issue".

But Mr Niphon told the governor and his deputy, and governors and
their deputies throughout the country, to comply strictly with
ministerial regulations and conduct their duties as best they can.

The committee proposed that prostitutes in all 120 brothels in
Songkhla and Hat Yai be "interrogated" to discover whether they
have been forced into prostitution, and also to find out if there
are child prostitutes working in the brothels.

Concerning allegations that the police sometimes receive bribes
from brothels, the committee suggested that senior officers at the
Police Department be informed of the matter so they can think up
ways of dealing with the problem.

Mr Niphon said the committee found that the prostitutes who were
prosecuted and fined by Songkhla Court order were not taken to the
public welfare office before being sent to the remand home for
women at Ban Kredtakan in Nonthaburi.

The law says all prostitutes must be sent to the remand home after
the court reaches its verdict. The committee said the women were
taken back to work by brothel owners after the fines were paid.

Mr Niphon said the permanent secretary will call a meeting with
the relevant officials to draw up measures to tackle the
prostitution problem.

He said: "Mr Anant asked me to see whether the officials go ahead
with the plan to suppress prostitution nationwide, what can be
done with 800,000 prostitutes, and whether the Public Welfare
Department is able to find jobs for them."
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 08:11:05 EST
From:         Elliott Parker <3ZLUFUR@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:      TH: Embassies told to explain child prost. policy

=======================  Forwarded  Message  ===========================




Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 00:31:14+0700
From: Kamol Hengkietisak <kamol@ipied.tu.ac.th>
Message-Id: <9211081731.AA20688@ipied.tu.ac.th>
Subject: Post Nov 9: Embassies told to spread propaganda


THAI embassies worldwide have been ordered to inform their host
governments of Thailand's policy to put an end to child
prostitution.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Sakthip Krairiksh said recently the
embassies were told to relay the Government's stated policy to
Parliament as well as Prime Minister Chuan Leekpai's recent
remarks on the subject.

The Prime Minister stressed that child prostitution must be
eliminated at a gathering on Monday of civil servants, police and
military officers.

The Foreign Ministry has instructed Thai embassies to emphasise
that the Thai government is seriously tackling the problem, the
spokesman said.

The measure is apparently in reply to international condemnation
of child prostitution and child labour.

Interior Minister Gen Chavalit Yongchaiyudh also said Thailand
would not use child labour illegally or exploit female labour, but
would stress human rights.

Gen Chavalit, commenting on the United States announcement that
Washington would stop Generalised System of Preferences (GSP) to
countries which make use of child labour, said the Prime Minister
had stressed the importance of this problem and the Interior
Ministry had already announced immediate plans to solve the
problem.

"We have always emphasised human rights and the abolition of
illegal child and female labour," he said.

"We already have the laws, but we must enforce them more
stringently. We have always fought this problem and it's not that
we have done so because others have told us to," he said.

Gen Chavalit said there may be some trade problems between
Thailand and the US but we must give officials some time.
From: CTROCKI@GUVAX.BITNET (Carl A. Trocki)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Subject: Re: Re:Nov.12 Massacre Memorial
Date: 13 Nov 92 15:25:00 GMT
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Dear Marto,
        I am glad that you love your country.  You should try to
change it when people abuse your trust.  That is what has happened in
the case of East Timor.
        You are wrong when you say the East Timor Freedom movement is
a year old.  It is nearly 18 years old.  It has been going on ever
since the Indonesian government launched its illegal invasion of that
piece of territory and it will continue until Indonesia removes its
troops and allows the people of East Timor to have their freedom.
        Do you think that people are sitting around waiting for
something to happen to "take adavantage" of the opportunity to
criticize the Indonesian government?  You have a strange and paranoid
view of the world my friend.  God may certainly bless Indonesia, but I
doubt if he will do much good for the criminals who have wrapped
themselves in the Merah-Puteh.
        CTROCKI
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 08:05:42 +1100
From:         cat@COOMBS.ANU.EDU.AU
Subject:      Re: RE:RE:CAMBODIAN IMPASSE...

>    Mr.Trocki,
>
>    The problem in Cambodia is not as easy as you think (at least
>for the people who live there). It seems that you were a bit
>emotional to Mr. Chan Tran posting.
>
>    Well, since the Hallowen is over, why don't you go to Cambodia
>and start hunting those Polpot people.
>
>
>Sridana W

Well at least Australia has 500 of its soldiers in Cambodia and its foreign
minister is actively seeking a peaceful resolution, one that results in
free and fair elections for the Cambodian people. And also one that
guarantees their human rights. All this was built upon years of
constructive engagement with that country by NGOs.

Carl Thayer



Carlyle A. Thayer
Associate Professor & Visiting Fellow
Dept. of Political and Social Change
Research School of Pacific Studies
The Australian National University
GPO Box 4
Canberra, ACT 2601 Australia

Phone: 0011 61 6 249 4453 office; 0011 61 6 251 1849 home
Fax 0011 61 6 257 1893 office; 0011 61 6 251 3749 home
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