HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: carrying guns for self-defense
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:51:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: chpc.1992Nov9.153302.2382
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma

In article <92312.004845U28037@uicvm.uic.edu> U28037%uicvm.uic.edu@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU (Jason Kratz) writes:
#While reading thru this group for the first time and reading all of the
#articles about people carrying guns for self-defense one question kept
#on crossing my mind?  Do you people all have licenses to legally carry
#guns or do you do it illegally?  I'm not saying I have anything against

I know *many* people (Including a lot of net contributors) who do have
such licenses.  The availability of civilian CCW licenses varied widely
by state - it is not uncommon for civilians in MA, NY (outside NYC),
NH, RI, CT, ME, PA, WA, OR, IN and probably a few other states I haven't
thought of to have concealeed carry permits.

Have you thought of moving?
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 13 Nov 92 04:11:18 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <62013@mimsy.umd.edu> you write:
#
#
#			How am I doing?

Just great.  I *LIKE* the comments you insert from time to time.

Putting them in a followup would just be that many more articles to
wade through and that much more context to try to find and ...

Keep up the great job!

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Opinions requested
Date: 5 Nov 92 04:37:26 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <9211041408.AA11675@techops.cray.com> u4944@techops.cray.com (Charles Hubbert) writes:
#
#I am considering revolvers.  In trying to decide what the gun would be
#used for, I would say mostly plinking/target, but the possibility of
#whitetail hunting with a handgun exists.  I am trying to decide what
#the best caliber would be:
#
#.357 Mag, good compromise with .38 Spl for plinking, but might be
#marginal on deer

Correct. It's a good plinker, adequate for defensive carry, but marginal
for deer. Legal for hunting in some states.

#.41 Mag, relatively expensive to shoot, could my wife shoot it for fun?

Forget it. The recoil and noise of a .44 Mag with the stopping power of
the .357 Mag. A dead issue.

#.44 Mag, seems to be the favorite among revolver hunters, is it too
#much for a first pistol (but NOT first firearm), could my wife shoot
#with .44 Spl. loads?  

This is the best choice. With .44 Spl loads it recoils no more than the
.38, and with full house .44 Mag handloads it's a match for any whitetail
in the forest. Legal to hunt with in more states than any other handgun
caliber. In a plowhandle grip old Blackhawk, or Super Blackhawk, your
wife should have no trouble with it. In fact she may handle the full
house loads as well as you do. With the straighter grip of a Smith
or double action Ruger, it can smart a bit. Pachmyers recomended in
that case, smooth wood in the case of the thumb cockers.

If you aren't considering the gun for defense, definitely consider
the Thompson Center Contender. It's an excellent target and hunting
pistol available in just about any caliber you can name. Interchangeable
barrels mean you can shoot the same gun in several calibers from .22LR
to 7mm TCU to .30 Herrett to .45-70. 

#I am definitly leaning towards double action, Ruger and S&W are front runners
#but are there others I should look at?

The Redhawk in 6" is a good choice, but don't neglect the Super Blackhawk.
For hunting and target shooting, the thumb cocker is just dandy, and our
granddaddies did just fine with it for defense. I'd opt for a 7.5" barrel.
The Smith Mod 29 is, well, a Smith. The cylinder is thin, flat springs,
spur firing pin, etc. It's pretty, and the trigger's good, but don't hand 
load it hot. I've got one with a piece missing out of the cylinder.

Gary
From: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: My Beretta and Me
Date: 9 Nov 92 14:26:58 GMT
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

I have always been proud of my stainless steel Beretta. However, something
that happened this afternoon surprised me. Story follows.

After I shot my Beretta at a local gun club, I ran into my cop rifle teacher 
and his friend. This cop is a firearm instructor in a local police department. 
He teaches all kinds of firearms to civilians during the weekends to make 
some extra $$$. Today he was shooting a Sig 220 in .45 ACP caliber with his 
friend. He then invited me to shoot this particular handgun. 

This Sig 220 felt very nice in my hand and I got tighter groups than him
and his friend. These groups are even tighter than those with my own
Beretta. That made me wonder about my Beretta and me. 

I'm not bad with my Beretta. I took an intermediate combat action 
shooting class when I was a student at UCLA. At the end of the class,
they give us a contest. I was the champ with this Beretta. Other
fellow students carried all kinds of fancy modified handguns. My point
is that I'm not doing terribly with this Beretta. 

However, after shooting this Sig 220, I feel that I can shoot faster with
this gun and get better groups. So my question for you ladies and gentlmen
is if I should part with my Beretta? My hands are of medium size. I can 
handle my .44 Desert Eagle ok with them. However, with the slim grip design
of the Sig 220, I can shoot faster and get tighter groups. So, what
should I do with my shinny Beretta? I'm thinking to trade it in for
a Sig 226. ( Sorry my fellow Beretta lovers... :(
( Or, trade it in for a Sig 220 in 9mm caliber? )
What do you guys think? Thanks. ( BTW, the purpose of this handgun
is for self-defense. )

David
-- 
 K. David Lin, Ph.D.              | E-mail: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com  
 Communication Services Research  | Defend your life with style! -- Beretta
 U S WEST Advanced Technologies   | Disclaimer: Only personal opinions
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Laser Guns (was Re: Arrow proof? Re: Bullet Proof Vests)
Date: 6 Nov 92 20:00:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Nov6.172534.9180
Organization: Western Washington University

sr2s+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth Malcolm Redmore) writes:

#But! Has anyone heard anything about new colors coming out?

I thought the Lazer Devices brand, the one that fits the glock
like it was made for it, was green.   I don't remember the color,
I just remember that indoors, it seemed to work great.

JD
From: u4944@techops.cray.com (Charles Hubbert)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Leave it Alone
Date: 13 Nov 92 14:21:28 GMT

I have been impressed with r.g since I started reading.  I recently used
this forum for input prior to a pistol purchase.  I do not find that the
moderator abuses the responsibilty, and in fact, IMHO, Mr. Mod saves me
a lot of time scanning matters that should be aired in talk.politics.guns.
I have seen posts that the moderator will allow that remind each of us
of important legislative movement, this is a public service and in this
day and age is a part of being interested in the legal ownership and use
of firearms.

My vote:  leave r.g as it is now and thank our moderator for keeping a 
          diverse group on track.

Chuck H.
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Barrel break-in
Date: 7 Nov 92 16:05:34 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <199211050521.AA08375@news.service.uci.edu> spickett@orion.oac.uci.edu (Steve Pickett) writes:
#In article <7860@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
##
##A while back I read on here somebody's recommendations for a new barrel
##break-in "ritual."  It required, among other stuff, some "Brobst JB
##Paste" and some "Ed's Red."
##
##I've called around, and the unanimous response is "What?  Spell it?"
##Except for one dealer who said, "Brobst... I think I used to carry that
##some time ago, but nobody ever bought any, so I stopped."
##
##Was this an obsolete procedure, perhaps?  Are there equivalents I could
##obtain today?  Or is there someplace special you have to go to get this
##stuff other than your local dealers?
#
#I've been meaning to ask a similar question of the group. Some time back I'd
#been told that there were definate proceedures for breaking in a new barrel
#but it wasn't specified exactly what that proceedure was. I've since asked
#one member of the group directly but I think it would be an interesting subject
#to explore as a group. I'd like to hear what any others have to say on the 
#subject.

Obsolete?  Don't think so... I use JB's.  It's a non-embedding mild 
abrasive.  I also use Sweet's 7.62 and Shooter's Choice.

Bill	burge@qdeck.com
From: rtaraz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: hunting laws in NH
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:57:41 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280


Does anybody know for sure what the hunting laws are in NH, for
handguns?  I would like to go hunting one of these days and CT doesn't
allow hunting with handguns which are larger that 22s

rtaraz
From: hejl@asl.dl.nec.com	 (Mike Hejl)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 13 Nov 92 16:55:01 GMT
Organization: NEC America, Inc Irving TX

In article <62013@mimsy.umd.edu> you write:
#
#
#			How am I doing?

Humm, I personally do not have a problem with your editorial comments nor
do I feel like you unduely censor posts.  Seems Mr. Ben is being a little
too critical.  I appreciate not having to wade through a bunch of junk.

I do, however, have one concern.  Its simply a pain for me to post or
followup to articles.  Consequently, I end up sending replies on topics
which would, perhaps, have more general appeal.

Still, keep up the good work...
-- 
+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+
| Mike Hejl         NEC America, Inc.  Advanced Switching Lab, Irving, TX   |
| hejl@asl.dl.nec.com    I don't even speak for myself, much less NEC...    |
+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: INFO WANTED: Automag III cal. 30M1
Date: 13 Nov 92 12:29:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Nov13.044733.13935
Organization: Western Washington University

n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:

Ok, I've got some now.   This is per the Lyman book, 46 edition. 

.357 mag, 110 grs, 14.6 grs Blue Dot is listed as max.
1545 fps
.357 mag, 122 grs, 16.4 grs Blue Dot is listed as max.
1494 fps
		4" test barrel
.30 M1, 110 grs, 14.5 grs 296 is listed as max.
1428 fps
.30 M1, 122 grs, 12.5 grs 2400 is listed as max (compressed).
1436 fps
		7.5" Ruger Blackhawk

I think this manual is conservative in its estimates, as Speer and
Herculese seem to run much higher.  In any case, .30 M1 seems weaker
than .357 in any of the Lyman loadings, even with the longer barrel.
	
Jim
From: tmi@netcom.com (Peter Alan Kasler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why are there no reliable semi-auto shotguns?
Date: 8 Nov 92 13:27:15 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In <25499@sybase.sybase.com> mtxinu!sybase!joe@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Joseph Weinstein) writes:


#Why are there no highly reliable semi-auto shotguns
#for defence?

	There is at least one: the Benelli M1 Super 90.

#I would like a defence-oriented 12-guage shotgun
#that I can just pick up and have it go boom-boom-boom
#while I keep pulling the trigger. The action and feeding
#mechanism could be like a Glock, or it could even be a
#cylinder like a double action revolver. Am I alone in
#my sence of the slow, dangerous inconvenience of having
#to jack the slide between aimed shots?

	Although I carry a Benelli, with proper training there is no
significant burden to using a pump-action shotgun, such as a Remington
870, for defense.
-- 
     Peter Alan Kasler                            Fax: 707-939-8684
     Threat Management Institute                Voice: 707-939-0303
     800 West Napa Street                     TMI BBS: 707-935-1713
     Sonoma, CA  95476                     Internet: tmi@netcom.com
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: How to get a FFL and Can I Still Buy an HBAR in Calif?
Date: 13 Nov 92 04:10:47 GMT
Organization: University of Kentucky, USA. -5 GMT

bobwest%code3@uunet.UU.NET (Bob Westover) writes:

#In article <1dqgf8INNj4c@neuro.usc.edu> merlin@neuro.usc.edu (merlin) writes:
##Is there any way to convert a blackmarket M-16 to legal status?
##Thanks, Merlin

  You could of course destroy the lower reciever and salvage the upper and
other parts, but to do this would require breaking the law by having the
illegal firearm in the first place. Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a ten
foot poll!
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Unique questions
Date: 8 Nov 92 23:05:29 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <1992Nov6.152403.27723@amc.com> reb@amc.com (Bob Brunjes) writes:
#I used to believe powder measures, until I created some 7.62 Luger
#cases you could prime with your thumb 8(.  Believe your scales.

I got a set of check weights so that I don't have to trust my scales
either.  I had a friend break a nice little Uzi after a scale insisted
that 9 grains of Bullseye really weighed 6...

If you don't have a check weight set you can get a rough check with
bullets.  I'd bet that most failures in a scale should affect all
ranges equally - so if a .224 55 grain HP comes out at 67 grains you
might suspect your scale.

-- 
Russ Kepler, posting from home   bbxrbk!russ@bbx.basis.com
Will hack unix for food
From: basiji@stein.u.washington.edu (David Basiji)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: For Sale: Compound Bow (lefty)
Date: 10 Nov 92 03:16:20 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

For Sale:

York CNC left-handed compound bow.

This is an excellent hunting or target bow for someone on a budget.
It is green low-visibility aluminum with black fiberglass arms. Draw
weight is adjustable from about 50# to about 85#.  It includes a rear
peep sight, four-pin front sights (Bear brand), a 6" balance shaft, and
an overdraw assembly.  Also included are a set of 5 broadhead hunting
tips, five camouflaged arrows, a hunting quiver, a forearm guard, a
trigger release, a target quiver, a hide finger guard, and spare arrow rests.
I'll also throw in 13 spare arrow shafts, ferrules,
field tips, nocks, and misc. adhesive for making arrows.

I have over $350 into this rig.  I'm asking $200/best offer.
I can be reached at basiji@u.washington.edu.

Thanks,
David Basiji
From: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu (John Stephens Cronin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:01:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: hydra.74724
Organization: Common Container Liberation Front


In article <l#fq!9@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
#
#At the same time that I'm happy with the level of moderation, I'm
#disturbed with your meddling as you've described in your post.  
#Your job as moderator should be simply to filter out inappropriate
#posts and NOT to play tattletail.  Were I moderating the group,
#abusive or other grossly inappropriate messages would simply
#go to the bit bucket with no reply or acknowledgement.  I think
#you stand far more secure in resisting the assaults of the Klausners
#if you stick to the business at hand and leave the mischef to others.
#
I have to disagree.  I somehow missed the original post by the moderator,
but I have some experience with returned posts and I like the way it is
handled.  I think that returning the reply to the sender, with an
explanation about why it was not accepted, and CCing to any involved
party (such as the author of an article that the sender was replying to)
is a reasonable way to go.  I do agree that it might be best to ignore
the worst posts (ie all abuse) but generally a rejection letter gives
the poster a chance to remove offending material and resubmit.  Further-
more, magnum may be looking for feedback from the group to see if others
really agree with the complaints in this case.

-- 
John Cronin	Internet: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu	Phone: (404) 876-1419
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live each day as if it's your last.  One day you'll be right.  -- me
Lighten up, you're gonna die whether you have fun or not.      -- me again
From: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu (John Stephens Cronin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Arrow proof? Re: Bullet Proof Vests
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:58:08 GMT
Organization: Common Container Liberation Front


In article <1992Nov4.181644.2679@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:
->#From article <73514@hydra.gatech.EDU>, by gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu (John Stephens Cronin):
-># 
-># In article <9211030123.AA02611@earth.rocket.com> deh@rocket.com (Dale E. Higgs) writes:
-># ->In article <92307.110634U53734@uicvm.uic.edu> you write:
-># ->#In article <1992Oct27.193056.1523@guinness.idbsu.edu>, betz%gozer@uunet.UU.NET
-># ->#(Andrew Betz) says:

[ stuff about powerful enough laser to cause a massive steam release explosion
  a few inches deep in the human body being a good stopper ]

-># Certainly it should not take a gigawatt laser to do this.  In any event,
-># this is getting to be ridiculous.  Anything big enough to carry around
-># the power supply for a gigawatt laser ought to be able to make one shot
-># kills on large naval vessels such as aircraft carriers.  A gigawatt is
-># a LOT of juice.
->#
->How big a laser would it take?  Are they generally available?
->Actually, what I would like would be a "phaser" where I could
->either render the person unconscious or vaporize them (no body). 

Hell, I don't know, but bigger than you will want to carry, probably even on
a vehicle (assuming you want multiple rapid shots on a more or less continuous
basis).  It is kind of like the Arnold S. movies where somebody is carrying
around a minigun.  Sure, you can carry the projectile (or beam, in the
case of the laser) launcher, but what about the weight of the ammo (or
power supply, in the case of the laser).  I would think something in the
kilowatt or tens of kilowatts range would be sufficient.  However, these
are going to have to be pretty big.  They have a laser light show at Stone
Mountain park here in Atlanta, and I know one of the guys who runs it.  I
will check to be sure, but it only puts out a few watts (less than 100) and
is not exactly small.  It will burn through paper, I am not sure what else.
It is certainly not an effective man stopper.

-- 
John Cronin	Internet: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu	Phone: (404) 876-1419
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live each day as if it's your last.  One day you'll be right.  -- me
Lighten up, you're gonna die whether you have fun or not.      -- me again
From: mwette@csi.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Matt Wette)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 13 Nov 92 16:54:50 GMT

In article <62013@mimsy.umd.edu> you write:
|> 			How am I doing?

Great -- I realize it takes some time and I am suprised at how quickly
you get those articles out.  Back when comp.sys.sun was moderated, it
sometimes took a week or better to get an article posted.


|> options I see available to us are...
|>  -- remain as is.
|>  -- discover or elect a new moderator.
|>  -- un-moderate the group, as Mr. Klausner has requested.
|>  -- suggest that an alt group be created, splitting us into moderated
|>     and unmoderated forums.

I believe unmoderating the group would be disasterous.  Under no
circumstances should this be done.

Perhaps if people don't appreciate clever quips you could either cut
down on them or (try to) find another moderator.  For the record, the
"clever quips" don't bother me.


Matt Wette
-- 
mwette@csi.jpl.nasa.gov
From: U28037%uicvm.uic.edu@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU (Jason Kratz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: carrying guns-listen up folks
Date: 10 Nov 92 03:16:27 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

The responses I've been getting lately from people are great but there
are a couple of things that I want people to understand.  Yes, I
understand that "they" might be reading this group.  I posted on here
because I wanted to find out information about carrying guns.  I never
in any way  said that I WAS going to carry one or am carrying one. I
said I've always thought about carrying one but thats not the same thing
as carrying one.  I don't even own a handgun.  That's the reason for
requesting information.  I plan to thoroughly investigate the gun laws
in this state.  No matter what I wouldn't break the law, there are too
many costs involved if I ever got caught.  Anyways, hope this clears up
what is starting to seem to be a misunderstanding.

Thanks!

Jason
From: anthrax@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Problem with the Berettas?
Date: 7 Nov 92 00:34:16 GMT
Organization: Mankato State University

In article <9211061819.AA17877@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, jpchou@camelot.Eng.Sun.COM (Jeff Chou) writes:
# 
# I am thinking about getting a Beretta 92FS (9mm) or a Beretta 96FS 
# (the new .40 S&W), but I have heard that Beretta has had problems 
# with their metalurgy. Something about metal fatigue or something has 
# supposedly caused a couple of incidents where the slide has cracked
# or actually breaks during recoil.
# 
# Has anyone heard about this?  Are these stories true?

Yes, there are similar stories abou the Glock products also.  It's been my
understanding that the problems were not incident to the weapon, but rather the
ammunition.  Extended use of "hot" loads will cause problems with the Beretta
(like most any other weapon). 
# 
# I also heard that they have not fixed the problem.  Its been going
# on for a couple of years.

They haven't "fixed" it because it really isn't a design problem on their part,
but rather the effects of non-standard ammunition.

# 
# Should this be a factor in my decision making process?

It depends on what you want the weapon to do.  If you are looking for a weapon
that you wish to be able to fire a large amount of non-standard ammunition you
might want to take this into consideration,but if you are buying the weapon for
defensive or employment purposes. (ie law enforcement) you shouldn't worry
about it.

# 
# Does Beretta has a lifetime warranty or such policy where if it
# happens, can I get it repaired or replaced?

That's a good question.  I haven't had any problems with mine so I haven't had
the need to look into that.  I can't recall if they have a lifetime warranty on
their products or not.  The factory is, however, set up to deal with repair and
replacments if something nasty were to happen.  

# 
# Thanks in advance for all the info!
# 
# Jeff

Eric Huber
Mankato State University 
Law Enforcement Program