HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: EMERSON%GENESEO.BITNET@Kentvm.Kent.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Subject: Re: Public Librarians???
Date: 9 Nov 92 23:33:27 GMT
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Approved-By:  Diane Kovacs <DKOVACS@KENTVM.KENT.EDU>
Comments: To: libref-l@kentvm.kent.edu

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I agree with Julie Livingston - reference librarians do much the same
job, whether at public or academic libraries.  I have done both, and
the jobs are very similar.  The biggest difference, in my experience
anyway, is the topics that are asked about.  But we are all in the
same business, and that is providing information.  I think it's
important to have different types of libraries represented on the
listserv
- we need to remember there are other kinds of libraries
besides the one we work in!

Debby Emerson
Monroe Community College
emerson@geneseo
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 14:58:53 EDT
From:         David Fuller <dfuller%eis.CalState.EDU@Kentvm.Kent.edu>
Subject:      Public Librarians???
Comments: To: libref-l@kentvm.kent.edu

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I recently posted a request for information from Public Librarians who
have been using OCLC's FirstSearch Service. I recieved several interesting
messages from academic librarians but only one response from a public library.

This leads me to another question. How many public librarians are on this
list? If you are a public librarian please drop me a note. This is a roll
call! I feel that there are significant differences between public and
academic libraries and am wondering if it is worthwhile to continue on
this list. Please respond privately (of course).

My address is dfuller@eis.calstate.edu

Thank You Very Much,
David Fuller
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Approved-By:  Diane Kovacs <DKOVACS@KENTVM.KENT.EDU>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:03:17 EDT
From:         "Michael S. Hart" <HART%vmd.cso.uiuc.edu@Kentvm.Kent.edu>
Subject:      Re: Last Comments on Lurkers
Comments: To: libref-l@kentvm.kent.edu
Comments: cc: Gutenberg Discussion Group <gutnberg@uiucvmd.BITNET>,
              Humanist Discussion <editors@brownvm.BITNET>,
              LIBREF <LIBREF-L@KENTVM.BITNET>,
              Bibliographic Instruction Discussion Group <BI-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>,
              Library of the Future <virtual@INDYCMS.BITNET>,
              Network Trainers Discussion List <NETTRAIN@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>,
              MegaByte University <MBU-L@TTUVM1.BITNET>

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Oh, come, come. . .let's not be so pithy.

There is a perfectly good English term for those who watch and listen
but do not participate, and while it is not the most wonderful of the
words in the English language, it is fairly beautiful. . .

wallflowers.

That should not have quite the negative connotations, denotations, or
whatever that "lurkers" had, and might encourage more to come in, and
join the dance, much as the power elite users might prefer them to do
otherwise.

I strenuously object to the comments labeled as the:

Last Comments on Lurkers

and I assure you that they were NOT the last.

I would like to see a "Wallflowers Week" be a part of the agenda for
the year on each of the lists I participate in, and further warn you

"If You Don't Defend The Networks, Who Will?"

=====================================================

Thank you for your interest,

Michael S. Hart, Professor of Electronic Text
Executive Director of Project Gutenberg Etext
Illinois Benedictine College, Lisle, IL 60532
No official connection to U of Illinois--UIUC
hart @uiucvmd.bitnet or hart@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
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Apparently-To: libref-l@kentvm.bitnet
Approved-By:  Diane Kovacs <DKOVACS@KENTVM.KENT.EDU>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:26:59 EDT
From:         "Ellen Gilliam, LKG Library and Info Services,
              DTN 226-7073 11-Nov-1992 1324" <gilliam@delni.enet.dec.com>
Subject:      Full text source for the recent North American Free Trade
              Agreement
Comments: To: libref-l@kentvm.kent.edu

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Can anyone out there suggest a source for the full text of the recent North
American Free Trade Agreement with the U.S., Mexico and Canada?

Thanks very much for any ideas.

Ellen Gilliam

*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
*  Ellen Gilliam 		           (508) 486-7073 (voice)          *
*  Principal Information Specialist        (508) 486-7557 (fax)            *
*  Digital Equipment Corp.                                                 *
*  LKG1-2/J10								   *
*  550 King Street        	    EMAIL:                                 *
*  Littleton, MA  01460-1289	      Internet gilliam@delni.enet.dec.com  *
*           			      MCIMail    Ellen Gilliam ID/486-6811 *
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Approved-By:  Diane Kovacs <DKOVACS@KENTVM.KENT.EDU>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 19:11:08 EDT
From:         "(Kevin Broun)" <broun%apple.com@Kentvm.Kent.edu>
Subject:      Re: Last Comments on Lurkers
Comments: To: libref-l@kentvm.kent.edu

I'd tend to agree.  I like ROMs as the most descriptive term.  I posted
this to Libref-L because I hoped it might stir some ROMs to respond.
We've passed 2,500 subscribers! Probably the discussion of terms should
end. Cheers! Diane Editor-This-Week.

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Michael Hart says:
>Lurker definitely has a more negative connotation in most parts of
>the world.

Such an authoritative statement, I might think it came from someone who had
done a survey of "most parts of the world" about this incredibly important
"lurker" vs. "wallflower" debate.  My $.02 is that these are both negative
terms, in different ways, not in different degrees of negativity.

I didn't see how this topic started on LIBREF, but it's certainly not worth
much more listserv air time, though "ROMs" as suggested by Katy Silberger
is pretty good, if potentially confusing during technical discussions...

- Kevin Broun
  Apple Library
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 11:50:43 EDT
From:         Diane Kovacs <DKOVACS@KENTVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: reference standards

I think this is a flame.  If you can leave out the personal criticisms and
return I will post.  Cordially, Diane Editor-Right-Now
>at KENTVM. If  you simply forward it  back to the list, it  will be distributed
>with the paragraph you are now reading being automatically removed. If you edit
>the  contributions you  receive into  a digest,  you will  need to  remove this
>paragraph before  mailing the results  to the list.  Finally, if you  need more
>information from  the author of this  message, you should  be able to do  so by
>simply replying to this note.
>
>----------------- Message requiring your approval (33 lines) ------------------
>
>
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>on thursday, 11/11, ingrid hendrix said:
>
>We have had a spirited discussion in one area and would like input from others
>Our Reference Desk is usually staffed by two people.  How would you deal with
>the situation where a coworker at the desk has given /is giving incorrect
>or incomplete information to a patron? How is the correct/complete information
>relayed to the patron without endangering the professional interaction between
>the patron and the staff member?
>
>could "endangering the professional interaction between the patron and the
>staff member" be more simply stated, in a jargon-free manner, as "how can i
>avoid embarassing the person i work with?"  if so, then (1) it should have been
>so stated, and (2) if one's common sense has not been too dulled by thinking
>about quantifying reference standards, one could merely chime in by politely
>offering advice to the errant staff member, e.g. "i couldn't help but overhear;
>you know, i think you'd find that information faster in chem abstracts, rather
>than in the world almanac" or "funny thing; i just read that in the guiness
>book of movie facts and feats."  geez; i just started working in a main library
>after two years' worth of time in a fine arts library.  i know ZERO about
>sources of info for agricultural economics, and i'm happy to be corrected/
>completed.  and, i would imagine, so would ANYONE who's trying to LEARN
>something.  perhaps a busy reference desk is not the place for those whose
>egos tend to bruise easily.
>next thing you know, we'll be back to postings about dress codes, roller
>blades, and THE CANDIDATE.
>
>larry schwartz
>humanities librarian, north dakota state u
>"where one's opinions are one's own"
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Approved-By:  Diane Kovacs <DKOVACS@KENTVM.KENT.EDU>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:34:03 EDT
From:         Lisa Moeckel <$L$LB4X%LUCCPUA.BITNET@Kentvm.Kent.edu>
Subject:      Re: reference standards
Comments: To: libref-l@kentvm.kent.edu

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I, too, am very interested in this topic.  In fact, it is the subject
of a discussion in our Reference Department staff meeting this afternoon
We also double-staff our reference desk during a large percentage of
our service hours.  Our staffing combinations often consist of
professional and paraprofessional,or professional and graduate student,
making the issue of teamwork at the reference desk even more interesting
My personal feeling is that respect for one's co-worker is a basic
element of successful teamwork at the reference desk, but as Adrienne
Franco has pointed out, tact, diplomacy and the personalities of those
involved are also important factors.  I am eager to hear more about
this subject; I hope those of you who have successfully dealt with this
issue will respond.
Lisa Moeckel (Internet:  $L$LB$X@LUCCPUA.it.luc.edu)
E.M. Cudahy Library  (Bitnet:  $L$LB$X@LUCCPUA)
Loyola University Chicago
From: AXF1%IONA.BITNET@Kentvm.Kent.edu (Adrienne Franco)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Subject: reference standards
Date: 11 Nov 92 03:03:17 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Approved-By:  Diane Kovacs <DKOVACS@KENTVM.KENT.EDU>
Comments: To: libref-l@kentvm.kent.edu

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> We have had a spirited discussion in one area and would like input from others
> Our Reference Desk is usually staffed by two people.  How would you deal with
> the situation where a coworker at the desk has given /is giving incorrect
> or incomplete information to a patron? How is the correct/complete information
> relayed to the patron without endangering the professional interaction between
> the patron and the staff member?
>
> Ingrid Hendrix
> University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio
> HENDRIX@UTHSCSA.EDU
************************************************************
This *is* a tricky area which calls for tact and diplomacy.
One possible method is to offer your assistance to the other librarian
by saying something like: "Several other students have recently asked
about this.  Together, we found .... " (if this is true, as
it often is)

Or, possibly, to extend this: "We [meaning you and other patron] tried
that [incorrect source or strategy] but found [correct source or
strategy] was more [or especially] helpful."

How this situation is handled may best be determined by the personality
of the other librarian.  Some would view tactful correction positively
as an opportunity to learn.  If this is so, you may more directly
intervene, but still with tact and sensitivity.
This may also be true if you are
recognized as being senior to or more experienced than the other
librarian.  It is also easier if the question falls into a subject
area where you are recognized as being an authority.

If someone is especially sensitive, you may tactfully suggest to the
patron that they return if they are unsuccessful, for alternate
suggestions.  In the meantime, in private, you may discuss the
question and appropriate answer(s) with the other librarian.

Perhaps, if certain common incorrect answers are given by more than
one staff member, staff training should be modified and the subject
area covered more thoroughly.

Adrienne Franco
Reference Librarian
Iona College
New Rochelle, NY

Bitnet: axf1@iona.bitnet
Internet: axf1%iona.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu
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Approved-By:  Diane Kovacs <DKOVACS@KENTVM.KENT.EDU>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 08:15:55 EDT
From:         "(JIM PARSONS)" <JPARSONS%csbsju.edu@Kentvm.Kent.edu>
Subject:      Reference Hours Survey
Comments: To: libref-l@kentvm.kent.edu

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
	As part of our TQM effort, I am trying to get some data on the number
	of reference hours, staffing levels, etc., for institutions of our
	size and mission.  According to my search of the LIBREF-L archives,
	a similar search was done just about a year ago.  I would, however,
	like to update that information and split the data between liberal
	arts colleges and universities (and, if I get enough responses,
	among other types of institutions as well).

	If you could take just a few minutes to reply to the following
	questions and send them to me, I will summarize for the list.


	1.  Size of student body (FTE's, if available):

	2.  Number of hours open per week:

	3.  Number of scheduled reference hours per week - staffed by:
		a. Librarians only:
		b. Librarians and paraprofessionals or students:
		c. Paraprofessionals only:
		d. Students only:
            	                   TOTAL HOURS PER WEEK:

	4.  Number of person hours per week at reference desk:
		a. Librarians:
		b. Paraprofessionals:
		c. Students:
				   TOTAL PERSON HOURS PER WEEK:

	5.  Number of Reference staff, by level:
        	a. Ref Libns - total number:        FTE:
		b. Ref Parapros - total number:        FTE:
		c. Ref students - total number:        FTE:


	Thank you, in advance.

	Jim Parsons
	St. John's University
	JParsons@csbsju.edu
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Approved-By:  Diane Kovacs <DKOVACS@KENTVM.KENT.EDU>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 10:26:58 EDT
From:         Ken Grabach <KGRABACH%MIAMIU.BITNET@Kentvm.Kent.edu>
Subject: Re: Public Librarians???
Comments: To: libref-l@kentvm.kent.edu
              4 Nov 1992 16:24:38 EDT from
              <pandersn%silver.sdsmt.edu@Kentvm.Kent.edu>

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I would like to join Patty Anderson in asking public reference librarians
to stay with this list.  We may talk about our unique situations too often
and fail to recognize that reference librarians have much in common with
each other.
I also have a plea to those public reference librarians who think the
discussions stray from their concerns.  Bring 'em up!  Join in the fray!
If you are a lurker, and think this stuff is not relevant, then you have
helped keep it from being relevant to you.  The nice thing about an
electronic discussion is that you will not be interrupted or shouted down.
Your comment shows up in queue along with everyone else's.
Ken Grabach
Miami University Libraries
Oxford, Ohio  45056
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Return-path: cboyer%orion.oac.uci.edu@Kentvm.Kent.edu
Approved-By:  Diane Kovacs <DKOVACS@KENTVM.KENT.EDU>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:43:47 EDT
Reply-To:     cjboyer%uci.edu@Kentvm.Kent.edu
From:         Calvin Boyer <cjboyer%uci.edu@Kentvm.Kent.edu>
Subject:      library gopher client
Comments: To: libref-l@kentvm.kent.edu

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

I would be interested in talking by e-mail with anyone who has mounted
a local library gopher client which is used by public services staff at
the reference or information desk.  I will post a summary of information
gathered to the list.  [this query cross posted on PACS-L.]

      Calvin Boyer  Library  University of California, Irvine
                   PO Box 19557  Irvine, CA  92713
BITNET: cjboyer@uci.bitnet  INTERNET: cjboyer@uci.edu  PHONE: 714 856-4764
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Organization: from SUNY College at Buffalo, NY 14222
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Approved-By:  Diane Kovacs <DKOVACS@KENTVM.KENT.EDU>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Sun, 8 Nov 1992 20:39:20 EDT
From:         "Carol J. Richards" <RICHARCJ%SNYBUFVA.BITNET@Kentvm.Kent.edu>
Subject:      Re: Document Delivery
Comments: To: libref-l@kentvm.kent.edu

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Please summarize the responses for the list.  I bet lots of libraries are
considering this also.

                           ******************

Carol J. Richards                   Voice:      716-878-6336
Head of Information Services        Fax:        716-878-3163
E. H. Butler Library                BITNET:     Richarcj@snybufva
SUNY College at Buffalo             Internet:   Richarcj@snybufva.cs.snybuf.edu
1300 Elmwood Avenue
Buffalo, NY  14222-1095
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Approved-By:  Diane Kovacs <DKOVACS@KENTVM.KENT.EDU>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 11:21:59 EDT
From:         QUINN%GONZAGA.BITNET@Kentvm.Kent.edu
Subject:      Re: Last Comments on Lurkers
Comments: To: libref-l@kentvm.kent.edu

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Two things:

1.  This discussion is reaching the point of utter silliness.

2.  Rosalee Maggio, in The nonsexist wordfinder: a dictionary of gender-
    free usage (Boston: Beacon Press, 1988) says of "wallflower,"

    "Wallflower (referring to a woman) avoid; there is no parallel for a man,
     and the origins of the phrase reflect outdated customs and attitudes."

Just thought I might throw that one in the mix.

James Quinn
Spokane, Washington
From: BLIPS15%BROWNVM.BITNET@Kentvm.Kent.edu (Howard Pasternack)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Subject: Re: Last Comments on Lurkers
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:39:43 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Approved-By:  Diane Kovacs <DKOVACS@KENTVM.KENT.EDU>
Comments: To: libref-l@kentvm.kent.edu

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

>Re: Last Comments on Lurkers
>From:         "Michael S. Hart" <HART%vmd.cso.uiuc.edu@Kentvm.Kent.edu>
>
>Also, in checking Merriam-Webster from 1949 to 1983 I did not
>find any definition as sexist as the one quoted above.

 Try Webster's Third New International Dictionary of th English Language
 Unabridged (1971).  It's the big fat dictionary found in most libraries.

>such a vastly small minority should not be imposing such a great
>amount of peer- and non-peer group pressure.
>
 This is coming from a person who cross-posted his lurker comments to
 several lists, most of which had nothing to do with the original
 discussion on PACS-L to begin with?

*************************************************************************
Howard Pasternack                                E-mail:  BLIPS15@BROWNVM
Library Systems/Planning Officer                 Phone:    (401) 863-3346
Brown University Library                         Fax:      (401) 863-2753
*************************************************************************
This space is for rent.   Cheap.                 Will subdivide to suit.
*************************************************************************
From: CADSANTS%UIAMVS.BITNET@Kentvm.Kent.edu (Sandra Ballasch)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Subject: Re: Public Librarians???
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:05:23 GMT
Reply-To: Sandra Ballasch <sandra-ballasch%UIOWA.EDU@Kentvm.Kent.edu>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Approved-By:  Diane Kovacs <DKOVACS@KENTVM.KENT.EDU>
Comments: To: libref-l@kentvm.kent.edu

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
My point exactly!  Most people do not realize that information is
arranged in established patterns that transfer from one book, file, or
institution to another.  As long as this is true there will be a need
for intermediaries (us - reference librarians) to instruct, guide and
help. The kind of library is irrelevant.

sandra-ballasch@uiowa.edu

> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I want to preface my comment by giving a paraphrase of an old cliche--
> if you give a man a fish, he will eat for a day, if you teach him to fish
> he will eat forever????  As an academic, I find we need to teach users
> certain basics so that they can operate in any library environment, whether
> it be an academic or public.   Frequently we ask users if they know how to
> use a particular index and the retort is I have never been to this library..
> many users use this as a mechanism to cover up embarrassment but many do
> not understand there is standarization of indexes, abstracts, etc. and
> that if they learn certain basic skills, they are transferrable.  Whether
> we are academic librarians or public librarians, I feel we all have the
> the same mission to educate our users so that he or she can acquire
> certain basic "library survival skills."    Simmona E. Simmons-Ho
> OOps  that last name is Simmons-Hodo, UMBC
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Approved-By:  Diane Kovacs <DKOVACS@KENTVM.KENT.EDU>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:20:10 EDT
From:         jacqueline van willigen <JVANW01%UKCC.uky.edu@Kentvm.Kent.edu>
Subject:      Re: Public Librarians
Comments: To: libref-l@kentvm.kent.edu
              5 Nov 1992 18:20:48 EDT from <BUNGE%macc.wisc.edu@Kentvm.Kent.edu>

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I am a librarian in a new highschool, a science and technology magnet school co
mbined into a "regular" high school.  Our reference collection number 1400 volu
mes and two cd rom stations (hoping to network some of our disks soon.)  I need
 to talk with you too.  Our students needs are broad and they are demanding use
rs.  I enjoy seeing their skills grow as they use our library, but I need all t
he help I can get keeping up with them, reference as we learned it in college,
and technology as it expands our resources.  Keep talking.  I even like the stu
ff about printers!
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