HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: c23st@kocrsv01.DElcoelect.COM (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: article in toronto sun about bosnia posted in sct
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:53:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: kocrsw06.9210051853.AA10263
Organization: The Ohio State University Department of Computer and Information Science

An excellent article was posted in soc.culture.turkish regarding the 
situation in Bosnia. The article title is 
"OSNIA THROWN TO THE WOLFES" by Eric Margolis. 

Spiros
From: c23st@kocrsv01.DElcoelect.COM (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: abortion in Greece
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:38:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: kocrsw06.9210061438.AA11779
Organization: The Ohio State University Department of Computer and Information Science

the recent discussion on abortions reminded me of a statistic that I
came across last April during the 'my living standards are better
than your living standards' exchange.

Greece has one of the lowest, if not the lowest, abortion rates in
the West. In contrast to countries like Germany, etc. I can dig up
the figures...

On the other hand, Greece also has an extremely low population increase
rate... Which can explain the above paragraph.

Spiros
From: cla02@seq1.keele.ac.uk (R. Wallace)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: OSE: A troskyist fringe group
Date: 30 Sep 92 09:16:07 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England

From article <1992Sep30.015452.94340@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, by dk0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DIMITRIOS KOUVATSOS):
> In article <BvC9Ao.6H5@gabriel.keele.ac.uk>, cla02@seq1.keele.ac.uk (R. Wallace)
>  writes:
>>From article <1992Sep29.070632.195374@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, by dk0a@ns1.cc.lehigh
> ..edu (DIMITRIOS KOUVATSOS):
>>> In article <BvApKE.ErF@gabriel.keele.ac.uk>, cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fea
> r)
>>> writes:
>>
[deletions]
>>
>>>is having trouble with his own mother tongue. A short
>>> lesson in English 101 is therefore in order. The word "critical" is not
>>> necessarily associated with the connotations he thinks of, does not
>>> necessarily mean "with thought, with reservations". More often than not, it
>>> means "of great importance" - which is the meaning implied here. Ergo, no
>>> contradiction in terms exists.
>>
>>With great respect, I think there is some unfamiliarity with English
>>idiom here. Perhaps you ought to enrol for a refresher course. I had
>>assumed that 'critical' was a typing error for 'uncritical' - which would
>>make sense.
> 
> With even greater respect, I would suggest that if you assume 'uncritical'
> for 'critical' rather than the meaning I presumed, a refresher course for you
> would be of a quite considerable value. 

Well now! And I was trying to be polite! No doubt one day the guy
in Australia will write and tell us what he really meant. But it is the
case that anyone who believes that 'unconditional support which is very
important indeed' can be expressed 
naturally in English by the phrase 'unconditional
critical support' is either someone for whom English is a second
language and has an imperfect feeling for English nuance (and is
deserving of all our tolerance, but might just consider thinking twice
another time before criticising other people's grasp of the language),
or is a inarticulate semiliterate slob. I had assumed the former, but if
you tell me that the latter is the case, then I will of course believe you.

(First hint: "enrol" is acceptable,
> but "enroll" is more correct usage).

I can't speak for US English, but in English English this is a very silly
comment indeed.

D- ; repeat the course!

But I don't think this is the group for a discussion on English usage. 
> 
>>By the way, what do you think the above quotation demonstrates?
> 
> I just happen to like it.

Yes, there was some other guy who posted thing who just happened to like
quotations at the end of his postings. Now what was his name? Began with
an 'M' didn't it? I wonder what became of him?
> 
>>
Richard Wallace
>>
> -- 
> ------------------------    "Avnr Ellnv basileus Makedovwv"
> += Dimitris Kouvatsos *=    "[I am] Greek man king of the Macedonians"
> <dk0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>
> ------------------------                    -- Alexander III the Great
From: filippou@cs.mcgill.ca (Dimitrios FILIPPOU)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: A Fairy Tale [in Greek]
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:28:23 GMT
Organization: SOCS - Mcgill University, Montreal, Canada

Apo to <<Anti>> tis 18is Septemvriou 1992:

======================================================================

[....] Elpida, koritsaki mou, den ehoume elpida.

    Mia sinomiliki sou, peirahtiri panexipno, me rwtise prosfatws:
<<Pappouli, pes mou ena paramithi ap' afta tou Politehneiou>>.  Gia na
min ntrepomai, tha sou pw ki esena ena pou olo mou 'rhetai sto nou 
diavazontas ta arthra twn <<dimokratikwn>> kai <<proodeftikwn>> swtirwn 
mas [pou emfanizontai sihna ston Athina.i.ko Tipo]. 

    Loipon, itane mia fora ki enan kairo, eikosi palikaria proodeftika, 
epanastates, tis AASPE, PPSP, Riga, B' Panelladikis.  Meta apo mia 
exantlitiki <<antiparathesi>> sto amfitheatro tis Sholis, afou
spatalisan tin imera sta <<diadikastika>>, prin prohwrisoun epi tis
ousias -- kai oi agwnistes anthrwpoi einai -- omofwna <<perase i
protasi>> na fane.  Pigan loipon se paraplisio estiatorio kai
kathisan.  Enas tous pige na dei ti ehei to katastima.  Epistrefei kai
tous leei:

   -- Sinadelfoi, sinagwnistes kai sintrofoi, ehoume treis
      enallaHtikes (sic) protaseis: kotopoulo, fasolia kai pastitsio.

Ki arhizei na rwta:

   -- Esi;
   -- Kotopoulo.
   -- Esi;
   -- Pastitsio.
   -- Esi;
   -- Kotopoulo.
   -- Esi;
   -- Kotopoulo.
   -- Esi;
   -- Fasolia.
   -- Esi;
   -- Kotopoulo.
   -- Esi;
   -- Pastitsio.
   .............

Oi perissoteroi ithelan kotopoulo.  Tote o <<sintrofos>> leei:

   -- Entaxei, sinagwnistes, i protasi perase!

kai apefthinomenos sto gkarsoni fwnazei:

   -- Eikosi kotopoula!

Afto itane, distihws, to paramithi mas.  Aftos itan o thriamvos twn
<<dimokratikwn diadikasiwn>>.

   Ki imouna ki egw ekei m' ena *kokkino* vraki!

======================================================================

Gia tin antigrafi,

Dimitris ek Montrealis
From: berne@nova2.stanford.edu (Jean-Francois Berne)
Newsgroups: soc.human.rights,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: Greek justice towards a Jehovah Witness.
Keywords: Human rights,Greece, religious discrimination
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:12:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: morrow.1992Oct5.181215.26422
Organization: Stanford University

In article <9210030201.AA26092@cc.UMontreal.CA> sebr@iro.umontreal.CA (Sebastien Racine *Rocker*) writes:
>
>     Hi,
>
>     I heard that public advocation of religions in 
>     Greece was strictly prohibited according to a 
>     law (1939).
???
Stop smoking. And if you don't smoke you should start.

>     that a friend of mine working for our organization 
>     in Greece was prosecuted because of his religious 
>     beliefs. We, Jehovahs' Witnesses strongly protest this 
>     behaviour of the Greek government. While allowing TV 
>     programs and prayers for orthodox church but 
>     prohibiting other religious TV programs, talking 
>     about democracy is useless.
Bullshit. Greece is in the EC, THEREFORE it is a democratic
country respecting any belief.
Jehovahs' witness, eh? 
JF
ps: BTW, democracy is a word of greek origin, meaning
"leadership of the people", not "of the TV".
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:9501 soc.culture.yugoslavia:9012 soc.culture.bulgaria:1479
From: PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Re2: Serbo-Croatian and Greco-Bulgarian "stuff"
Date: 6 Oct 92 07:45:01 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

In   4th Oct 92 10:46:50 GMT    Luben Boyanov   (lb@cs.man.ac.uk)
critised my message  <92277.172939PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu>.

Here is the dialogue:

M.Pavlovic: My Greek friends...Don't let yourselves be pushed in-
      >>>>  to the defensive corner, like Serbia has been pushed.
      >>>>                                       Regards,  Milan
      >>>>
      >>>>        M A C E D O N I A  =  H E L L A S

S.Tzonev: BRAVO Mr. Pavlovic!
      >>> Maybe your next appeal will look like:
      >>>  "Fellow orthodox greeks - it's high time to divide Ma-
      >>>   cedonia! MACEDONIA = HELLAS + SOUTH SERBIA" ?
      >>>                                   very curious, Svilen

A.Romanos: I must remind you:  Mr.Pavlovic  has been very consis-
     >>  tent over the "Macedonia=Hellas"  notion for a long time
     >>  now, and I have every reason to believe that he uses the
     >>  term referring to MAKEDONIA (which is clearly within the
     >>  current Greek frontier).

L.Boyanov:  I would have  skipped this if it came from other, but
      >  from somebody pretending for accuracy and who has provi-
      >  ded (indeed)  good examples of research, after 'strange'
      >  initial postings.  But  what one can read from above is
      >  really ridiculous.
                ::::::::::
        <paragraph from the "History of the Great War" deleted.>

Ridiculous is when you wrongly blast one person for a posting so-
meone else wrote about the Bulgarians massacring the Jews,  with-
out even apologizing later!      <as you did some months ago!>

I merely observed that a netter uses a phrase  "Macedonia=Hellas"
beneath his signature, with some consistency.   In order for this
observation of mine to be RIDICULOUS you have to prove to me that
Mr. Pavlovic does not do what I recalled -and even if you succeed
in this, again, your characterization is rather unkind for such a
trivial thing...

So much about who is ridiculous...


                              * * *
    The rest of Luben's text is deleted. The excerpts he criti-
    cized (?) are OUT of context.  I distinctly remember that I
    never discussed Bulgaria invading western (to her) territo-
    ries and the scenario he presents. I do not know if this is
    the answer he seeks,  but  my speculation and understanding
    on this matter is that Greece will stay out of the mess!
    If foreigners now claim the opposite,  in my opinion,  this
    is simply a "wrong idea" on the Greek position and politics
   (and I mentioned this notion -coincidently- in my old posting
    as well).

                                             Andronikos Romanos
From: dk0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DIMITRIOS KOUVATSOS)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: OSE: A troskyist fringe group
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:54:52 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <BvC9Ao.6H5@gabriel.keele.ac.uk>, cla02@seq1.keele.ac.uk (R. Wallace)
 writes:
>From article <1992Sep29.070632.195374@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, by dk0a@ns1.cc.lehigh
.edu (DIMITRIOS KOUVATSOS):
>> In article <BvApKE.ErF@gabriel.keele.ac.uk>, cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fea
r)
>> writes:
>
>[deletions]
>>
>> Observe here that it was an Australian who wrote the two first lines, not a
>> Greek - yet Mr. Andy T. Fear promptly snatches the opportunity to sneer and
>> deride, who else? The Greeks again, with his most thoughtful comment on Greek
>> philosophy! How touching of him...
>
>No! It's just that Fear never reads anything before reacting to it!

And you say that, and dare accuse me for "personal vilification" of Mr. Fear!
If he is indeed incapable of reading, let alone thinking, before reacting,
well, too bad for him. You said that, I didn't!

>> It further appears here that Mr. Andy T. Fear, that illustrious bastion of
>> supreme knowledge,
>
>As one who has on several occasions had to expose the inadequacies of
>Andy Fear's scholarship in public, I can't go along with this. The lad
>will get ideas above his station.
>
>>is having trouble with his own mother tongue. A short
>> lesson in English 101 is therefore in order. The word "critical" is not
>> necessarily associated with the connotations he thinks of, does not
>> necessarily mean "with thought, with reservations". More often than not, it
>> means "of great importance" - which is the meaning implied here. Ergo, no
>> contradiction in terms exists.
>
>With great respect, I think there is some unfamiliarity with English
>idiom here. Perhaps you ought to enrol for a refresher course. I had
>assumed that 'critical' was a typing error for 'uncritical' - which would
>make sense.

With even greater respect, I would suggest that if you assume 'uncritical'
for 'critical' rather than the meaning I presumed, a refresher course for you
would be of a quite considerable value. (First hint: "enrol" is acceptable,
but "enroll" is more correct usage).

>By the way, what do you think the above quotation demonstrates?

I just happen to like it.

>
>Richard Wallace
>
-- 
------------------------    "Avnr Ellnv basileus Makedovwv"
+= Dimitris Kouvatsos *=    "[I am] Greek man king of the Macedonians"
<dk0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>
------------------------                    -- Alexander III the Great
From: cc433336@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Constantinos A. Caroutas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Turkish Logic (was Re: Understanding...)
Date: 1 Oct 92 02:05:21 GMT
Organization: Colorado State U. Engineering College

In article <1abng5INNc9q@agate.berkeley.edu>, sadi@physics1 (Sadi Turgut)
writes:
>In article <9209271820.AA17479@sungate.icsmac.com> gunther.neuberger@icsmac4.icsmac.COM (GUNTHER NEUBERGER) writes:
>
> This is a general practice in Greece as I am informed. The main purpose
>is to prevent tourists from going to Turkey. By doing this they are
>either trying to prevent Turkey from having foreign currency (which has

Interesting logic. Then, can you explain why Greeks visit Turkey and spend 
money there?

>with their propaganda. The first one was about a Greek who was telling
>his friends that Turks want to invade the Aegean islands. The last one

Didn't your president say last year that the Dodecanese Islands should be
Turkish?
--
Constantinos A. Caroutas

"It's easy to make mistakes when others will be held responsible."
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:9309 soc.culture.turkish:10255
From: wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Edward Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Turkish Sentiments or "Aw, shucks, we lost an empire"
Date: 27 Sep 92 02:25:44 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.greek
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.


Kutluk "Mutluk" Ozguven writes
in response to a posting by an Armenian netter:


>> Please contact your cable operator if you live in the US
>>and tell them you want them to connect SCOLA.  SCOLA
>>provides television programs from important countries
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>around the world including Armenia, Greece, Russia, France,
                            ^^^^^^^  ^^^^^^

>This message belongs to rec.humor or alt.megalomany, not SCT.




      Since when, Mutluk, do demented Turks like you decide
      which countries are important?


-- Eduard Wiener
From: lb@cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: MACEDONIA
Date: 27 Sep 92 12:31:41 GMT
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <1992Sep26.213216.24518@enea.se> sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:

[deleted]

>Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
>There are many sorts of Macedonians: Greek, Bulgarian, Roumanian,
>Macedonian... 

According to all books from the past, in Macedonia there were 6
nationalities (races, etc - different authors use different words) -
Bulgarians, Greek, Serbs, Vlachs (and not Roumanian, despite that the they
are considered as the same), Albanians and Turks. After all Mustafa Kemal
Attaturk was a Macedonian Turk (born in Salonika - i.e. Thessaloniki).

Best regards

Luben
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: ccc@cs.toronto.edu ("Christina C. Christara")
Subject: Re: Proselytism
Keywords: religion, Greece
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:01:49 GMT

In article <BvA5En.DIr@gabriel.keele.ac.uk> cla02@keele (R. Wallace) writes:
>
>There is a report this morning in the Independent newspaper of an
>individual (a Jehovah's Witness) being prosecuted in Greece under a law
>dating back to 1938 prohibiting proselytisation by any religious group
>in Greece except the Greek Orthodox Church.
>
>Is this true? Does the law exist? How is it applied?
>
If a person tries to proselytise someone, s/he will be prosecuted.
But this holds for all sorts of proselytisation.
The Constitution (1974) prohibits any sort of proselytisation.
>[...]
>
>Richard Wallace.

C. Christara
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:9319 soc.culture.europe:8655
From: lb@cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: Quizzes on Macedonia...
Date: 27 Sep 92 15:49:32 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.greek
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.


In article <92267.033821PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu> PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

[deleted]

>Was Tsar Samuel an Armenian, a Bulgarian or Polish?  (Sourses please.)

Probably the most valuable and accurate references to who was Tzar Samuel
(and that he was refered to as Bulgarian, and not Polish, or whatever is
there) are by eminent Byzantium chronicles as Cedrin Scylitzes [1] and
Michael Psellos [2].

>Were the Patriarchic Bulgarophones of the 1890's Greeks or Bulgarians?

"One of the most comic results of this competitive ethnography was a map
published some years ago under Athenian auspices and circulated in this
country. According to this Macedonia was for practical purposes divided
into two elements - the Greeks and the "Bulgarophone Greeks" - as if
some Celtic enthusiast should divide Britain between the Welsh and the
"Anglophone Welsh !" [3].


[1] Georgii Cedreni, "Compendium historiarum", ed. Bonn, II original
in Greek.

[2] Michael Psellos, "Chronographie ou histoire d'un siecle
de Byzance (976-1077)", Paris, 1926-28, original in Greek.

[3] "The Times", October 1st, 1903, Arthur J. Evans


>                                                            A.Romanos

Best regards

Luben
From: cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: RE: CONFUSIONS...
Date: 28 Sep 92 08:49:57 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England

From article <6301.3248.uupcb@factory.com>, by michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos):
> 
>>> [...] The form of government was that of a hereditary monarchy under
>>>the
>>> family of the Argeads, who enjoyed the dubious support of a great
>>> landowning aristocracy.>> Brittanica "Greco-Roman Civilization".
>>
>>This doesn't sound very Greek at all. - Might be worth looking at the
>>thoughts of Isocrates (a friend of Philip) Philip 5.107 in this regard.
> 
>  Argead not Greek enough for you? The Argeads were the leading family of
> Argos. The Macedonian kings considered themselves Argeads, and the other
> Greeks also considered them Greeks (in Olympia). So what is not greek
> enough about all this?



Not again. We all know the ancestry story told by Alexander the
Philhellene (an odd title for someone if they were Greek) to the
Hellenodicae. The first point is that we might doubt this story, false
genealogies are common in antiquity and as Richard Wallace has pointed
out were used by non-Greeks as well as Greeks. So this is dubious
evidence at the most. Secondly Alexander only claims his family as
Greeks not the Macedonians as a whole. This must surely suggest that he
felt he couldn't sustain the latter claim. It would seem a much more
obvious ploy to say to the Hellenodicae "I am a Macedonian and the
Macedonians are a Doric people, like the Spartans..." But he didn't.
Perhaps the attitudes of people like Demosthenes and Isocrates to the
Macedonians tell us why.

The social organization of Macedonia as described in the passage above
certainly doesn't sound like a typical Greek city-state - the way most
Greek posters have seemed to imply Macedonia was run. If you want to 
pursue this you could try the *ethnos* as opposed to *polis* type
arrangement found, for example, in Thessaly. Neither type of
arrangement, but particularly the ethnos one was exclusive to Greeks
though.

Andy
From: schoinas@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Quizzes on Macedonia...
Date: 28 Sep 92 22:36:55 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences

lb@cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov) writes:


>In article <92267.033821PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu> PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

>>Were the Patriarchic Bulgarophones of the 1890's Greeks or Bulgarians?

>"One of the most comic results of this competitive ethnography was a map
>published some years ago under Athenian auspices and circulated in this
>country. According to this Macedonia was for practical purposes divided
>into two elements - the Greeks and the "Bulgarophone Greeks" - as if
>some Celtic enthusiast should divide Britain between the Welsh and the
>"Anglophone Welsh !" [3].

Insufficient understanding of the term Greek?
From: phs265y@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: OSE: A troskyist fringe group
Date: 2 Oct 92 10:04:12 +1000
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia

In article <BvApKE.ErF@gabriel.keele.ac.uk>, cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear) writes:
> 
> What is 'unconditional critical support' - sounds like a bit of a
> contradiction in terms to me, but then this could be a subtle aspect of
> Greek philosophy I've missed (BUT WAIT! to indulge in that would be
> national chauvinism on OSE's part and hence against their
> internationalist creed, so I suppose it must be  straightforward
> incoherence after all)


  OK maybe I should have said "unconditional but critical" support. What it
means is that we put no conditions on our support for the IRA. For example we
dont say that we will support the IRA IF they give up armed struggle. This
would be a condition on our support. It's a simple matter of supporting the
Left against the Right (yes, that means against tories).

  However we are critical of the IRA's tactics. We are not against the deaths
of the RUC or the British occuping forces as such, but a small guerilla group
such as the IRA fighting on behalf of oppressed catholics cannot fundamentally
transform society. There are also other theoretical questions. The IRA have the
stalinist stages theory. That is, that we arrive at socialism in stages; first
we win national liberation then we build socialism. The problem with this idea
is that it leads to the IRA forming alliances with the Irish ruling class
against the interests of the Irish working class, and it leads to bolstering
Irish nationalism.


                                         Tony Hartin
                                         International Socialist Organisation
                                         Australia
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,eunet.politics
From: c60b-1gs@e260-1a.berkeley.edu (Allen Tom)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Genetic question misunderstood
Date: 27 Sep 1992 07:11:59 GMT
Organization: University of California, People's Republic of Bezerkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: e260-1a.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep26.204241.13861@seas.gwu.edu> claypool@seas.gwu.edu (Hyok H. Lee) writes:

>
>Difference does not mean inferiority nor superiority.
>

You were questioning the differences in intelligence between different races.
Difference in intelligence would eventually imply inferiority or superiority.

-- 
 _____________________________________________________________________________
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american