HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: collet@ensta.ensta.fr (Pierre Collet)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Re: Fear of Flight/Airport PR
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:51:58 GMT
Organization: Ensta, Paris, France
NNTP-Posting-Host: ensta.ensta.fr

In article <7480321@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com> glenb@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Glen Baker) writes:
)Dave Allen writes:
)
)> Even after 25 years of flying, I don't enjoy uncoordinated flight.
)> A slip is NOT a normal action except for a few seconds while touching 
)> down in a crosswind,
)
) Wow. Major difference in opinion. To me a slip is DEFINATELY a normal
) action. I don't even have to be landing to do one. Ever try to give your
) passengers a better view of that <insert cool thing>? How about those
) of us that fly planes with no flaps? 
)
)> Let them be impressed with the view, with the sensation of moving through 
)> the air, with FLIGHT itself, and not with our ability to snap the plane
)> around the sky.
)
) C'mon, a slip is hardly "snapping" the plane around the sky! Properly 
) executed it can be a very smooth manuver. The *pilot* probably feels
) much more than the passengers 'cause you're having to hold in those 
) "odd" cross controls. To a passenger the sensation shouldn't be a 
) *whole* lot different than say cornering moderately aggresively in your
) volkswagen beetle! Caveat: I'm NOT talking about a 
) "fullslipwithfullflapsexpressridetotheground" ...that might unnerve a 
) few people.
)
) + many lines of the kind

In France, uncoordinated flight is simply FORBIDDEN, except for crosswind
landings when uncoordinated flight is tolerated. By uncoordinated flight,
French reglementation means skidding or slipping.

My 2 centimes

Pete
From: buddyh@sysdesign.EBay.Sun.COM (Bruce Hoffman)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Fun things to do near airports in Oregon,
Keywords: In article 16425@telebit.com, brent@greatcircle.com (Brent Chapman) writes:>
Date: 30 Jul 92 00:22:15 GMT
Reply-To: buddyh@sysdesign.EBay.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: sysdesign.ebay.sun.com

I just made a very enjoyable trip to Ashland where you do not need a car if you stay
at the Ashland Hills Inn. There are several outstanding Shakespearean theaters with
several performances daily, except Monday (Although likely to be sold out, you can get
tickets either through a lottery on the day of the show or with the people that are
almost always selling tickets before the shows). During our weekend, we went to
Henry VI, ate at a good restaraunt, Chateaulin (great wine), rented mountain bikes and
took them on a 28 mile ride from town through Lithia Park and spent a day rafting on
the Rouge River. The Inn will pick you up at the airport, drop you off and shuttle
you into town. There is a good variety of live music in town, which stays awake until
about 2:30 am.

Have fun!

Buddy Hoffman
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: mmr47784@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark Rogers        )
Subject: Re: FAR, Part 93, Subpart K ?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: rec
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 05:08:35 GMT

jouvelot@alexandria.lcs.mit.edu (Pierre Jouvelot) writes:


>The AIM 5-1.h section references FAR, Part 93, Subpart K as the source
>for information concerning High Density Traffic Airports, like JFK.
>Weirdly enough, Part 93 doesn't seem to be included in my FAR/AIM
>document from ASA.  Doesn't anyone know what's in there?

  Well, this doesn't answer your question on fees, but I do have
all of Part 93 (which you could probably obtain from your library).
This seems to be the applicable section:

93.129 
(b)
VFR.  The operator of an aircraft may take off and land the aircraft 
under VFR at a designated high density traffic airport without regard
to the maximum number of operations allocated for that airport if the
operation is not a scheduled operation to or from a high density airport
and he obtains a departure or arival reservation as appropriate from 
ATC.  The reservation is granted by ATC whenever the aircraft may be
accommodated without significant additional delay to the operations 
allocated for the airport for which the reservation is requested and 
the ceiling reported at the airport is at least 1000 feet and the 
ground visibility reported at the airport is at least 3 miles.

(I
IFR is basically the same except it doesn't include the segment on 
weather.... Anyway, there is more in the part, so I would recommend 
that if you have additional questions you consult a library, or maybe
e-mail me directly....

I hope that this helps....

Mark Rogers
University of Illinois  mmr47784@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
COMM (ASEL) -IA
CFI, CFII (training)


A
C
A

Newsgroups: rec.aviation,sci.aeronautics,comp.human-factors
From: raveling@Unify.com (Paul Raveling)
Subject: Re: Coffe cups in the cockpit (Re: A320 yarns)
Organization: Unify Corporation (Sacramento)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 19:30:09 GMT

In article <TJFS.92Jul25234136@coffee.tadtec.uucp>, tjfs@tadtec.uucp (Tim Steele) writes:
> When travelling on the HP Company Jet about five years ago I was asked
> by the pilot to fetch him a polystyrene cup of coffee.  I did this and
> was rather surprised to see him wedge the cup of hit coffee
> precariously between the top of the dashboard and the windshield.

	In many cases tennis balls work better than coffee cups.
	From time to time you'll find soaring (sailplane) pilots
	who cut a hole of appropriate size in a tennis ball and
	use it as a "gear down" safety interlock.  In case anyone
	tunes in late on this discussion, the basic scheme is...

	   Before takeoff the ball is on the landing gear handle.
	   After having climbed above pattern altitude, or after
	   releasing from tow, move the tennis ball onto the
	   handle for the dive brakes (or spoilers, or flaps)
	   and retract the gear.

	   Before beginning an approach for landing, lower the gear
	   and move the ball onto the gear handle.  If you forget to
	   do this and start your approach with the gear up, it won't
	   be long before you reach for the dive brakes and find the ball.
	   That's a cue that's hard to miss.

	The advantage of a tennis ball over a coffee cup is that it
	stays put much better in turbulence.  While soaring in the
	Mojave Desert in sailplanes equipped with accelerometers, I
	routinely saw a range of +3G to -1/2G on its telltales due
	soley to thermal turbulence, so that situation calls
	for balls.


------------------
Paul Raveling
Raveling@Unify.com
From: wizard@think.com (Paul Gilberti)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Looking for clubs near LAW,MA
Date: 22 Jul 1992 15:07:25 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: quicksilver.think.com

I'm looking to join a flying club, or a partnership near the Andover
airport.  Anyone know of anything ?

Thanks,
From: chem4-aa@garnet.berkeley.edu (Lonnie C. Martin)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Ramp checks--unreasonable search
Date: 25 Jul 1992 03:29:05 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <Jul.24.14.24.55.1992.28282@pilot.njin.net> ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie) writes:
>To what point does this "all information possible" get silly.  For
... skipped stuff
>this other ways) like the fact that even though Manassas got a tower
>before these charts came out it's still shown as an uncontrolled
>field.  Should I be coloring the symbol blue on my chart and drawing
.. skipped stuff .. 

I believe that you ARE expected to know that Manassas now has a tower, even
though it is depicted as non-tower on the sectional. I doubt that you would
be expected to get out the crayons, although that is a great idea.

... skipped stuff
>one of the VOR's.  Should I be carrying the Class 2 notam book around
>in addition to the AFD?

I believe you are supposed to be aware of the information contained in the
class 2 notams, but are not required to carry them, or even subscribe.

Having to be aware of the AF/D and Class 2 notams isn't the silly part. There
are a lot of ways of looking at this. Information that may seem silly in one
situation can become pretty important in another. Being able to project the
informational and equipment needs of a flight is part of being a skillful
pilot. One could overestimate the needs and look silly (and, I would agree
that overestimating could indicate a lack of experience or confidence). On
the other hand, underestimating those needs has problems, too, generally
more grave. Fortunately for the underestimators, the system is pretty
accomodating, up to a point.

Lonnie
-- 
Lonnie C. Martin    lonnie@hydrogen.cchem.berkeley.edu
From: chalekcl@crd.ge.com (Carl Chalek)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Dogs in Planes
Date: 28 Jul 92 13:32:14 GMT
Reply-To: chalekcl@crd.ge.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: GE Corporate R&D

My club, Condair Flyers, in Schenectady, NY, requires pets to be in FAA approved
carriers when flying in our aircraft.  It just seems like common sense to 
require this.  All it takes is for the animal to get spooked and start jumping
around the cockpit to make the day go downhill real fast.  Or to have an
accident in flight... Or fur on the seats (bad if the next pilot is allergic)...
etc. etc.

Carl Chalek
GE CRD
chalekcl@voyager.crd.ge.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: davea@col.hp.com (Dave Allen)
Subject: Active noise-canceling headsets
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 22:07:40 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

Well, maybe we expected this one...
Just got a monthly newletter with an article about a gear-up landing.
The pilot got a runway change at the last minute and didn't get the gear
down. He was using an active noise-canceling headset. After the "landing"
he took off the headset, and you already know the first thing he heard -
the gear warning horn.

Naturally he's suing the headset manufacturer. The author's point was that
there's just too much that we need to hear in an aircraft, and too much
that we don't hear with a noise-canceling headset. I know some have stated
that you still hear the engine and everything just fine. Well, not so for
this guy... So, exercise appropriate caution, especially if you're in the
kind with the disappearing rollers.

dave allen - Fly because you love it.
From: BCLEWIS@LSTC2VM.stortek.com (Brian Lewis)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: FAR, Part 93, Subpart K ?
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:53:14 GMT
Organization: StorageTek SW Engineering

>
> For a more practical matter, didn't anyone land VFR at JFK
> to pick up someone arriving on an international flight?  How
>
I did exactly what was proposed by the original poster -- VFR into JFK to
pick up someone arriving on an international flight.  This was back in
1976, so my information is dated.
 
I phoned ahead, since I didn't have Mode C.  I was told to contact
Kennedy Approach over Colt's Neck VOR.  They were very accommodating.
The only difficulty I had was when they told me to fly to Canarsie --
it is a VOR which did not have a compass rose around it on the TCA
chart, and I couldn't find it.  They ended up giving me the frequency.
 
I arrived there on a Sunday afternoon, before rush hour.  The landing
fee was $25.  Sure is interesting being the only single-engine plane
on the field.
 
They had us depart on 13L, which they were using for landing traffic.
Then they had us make 3 left 90-degree turns, which kept us below
their arrivals and headed us in a southwesterly direction.  It also
took us by the Empire State Building, the World Trade Center, and the
Statue of Liberty.  Sure was a beautiful flight.
 
Brian
From: gt5584e@prism.gatech.EDU (Edward Deering Boykin)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Airshows?
Date: 21 Jul 92 15:04:43 GMT
Distribution: ga
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Does anuone know of any airshows scheduled for the Georgia area in the next few months?
From: john@newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: QANTAS - U.S. Aircraft Carrier warnings.
Date: 25 Jul 92 05:59:34 GMT
Organization: Newave Communications, Ltd, Lake Wobegon, MN

In article <1992Jul23.153658.13287@news.nd.edu> ulick@angelico.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) writes:
> In article <68@newave.mn.org> john@newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III) writes:
> > Captain Rogers was worried because his ship, correctly or incorrectly, had
>                                                  ^^^^
> > initinally identified the incomming aircraft as an Iranian F-14 Tomcat.  As

> You mean identifying an Airbus as an F-14 might have been correct?  

The ship did not have the Airbus on any type of visual display, nor did they
have radio contact.  What they did have is a lot computer and radar displays,
all of which indicated F-14 Tomcat.  The big question is why did the come up
with Tomcat?  There are a number of possibilities, however, the real reason
is still classified.  The electronics package on the ship could have made
a mistake, the people operating it could have messed up, the Airbus could
have been transmitting an F-14 IFF code (identify friend or foe), they could
have locked onto the wrong aircraft, they might have picked up an Iranian
F-14 on taxi a nearby airport in Iran, there might have been an F-14 flying
in formation behind the Airbus, or they might have actually shot down an
F-14, and the passenger jet footage was all a big fake.

It is really hard to pass judgement on an incident when many of the most
basic facts are still being withheld by both sides.  I am not going to 
condem either the US Navy or the Iranian people for what will probably
turn out to be mistakes made by both sides, at least not until I have all
the facts.  That's why I hedged the statement that was quoted above.

BTW, its time to bury this thread--we have beat it to death.

-john-

-- 
==============================================================================
John A. Weeks III		(612) 942-6969		    john@newave.mn.org
Newave Communications, Ltd.			    ..!uunet!tcnet!newave!john
From: wisch@Apple.COM (Ed Wischmeyer)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: In-flight radar from ground stations?
Date: 28 Jul 92 21:45:27 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA



Bill (they're finally using my code!) Hopkins writes:

>When requested by the aircraft, TIS provides an onboard picture of
>any traffic within 5 miles horizontally and 1200 feet vertically.

Some years ago, the FAA position was to squash this kind of information.
One reason was that this information had very poor potential for avoiding
midairs (because the angular information displayed on the screen was
inadeguate to display infinitesimal angular rates at longer distances).
The 5 mile gate might well solve this problem. The second reason was that the
maritime industry had had a long history of radar assisted collisions, wherein both parties maneuvered vigorously but with improper phasing to their zigs and zags. My source for this information is a grad school office mate who went to
work for FAA R&D in Washington on these and related topics.

Frankly, I'll take any airborne collision system I can get that really works.
(I'm real unimpressed by the transponder proximity system that says that
another transponder is around somewhere, but does not tell you (1) where or
(2) what to do about it.) Too bad the Litchford "listen in" system ideas
never caught on...

Maybe we need some kind of system comparable to the airshow planes, so that
each plane leaves 5 seconds of a smoke trail every 30 seconds... no flames
from the envirofreaks, please.

Ed "IMC means you don't have to scan for traffic" Wischmeyer
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: "Eldo Hildebrand, UNB,Fredericton,NB" <ELDO@UNB.CA>
Subject: RE: Manufacturer being sued _for_no_reason_
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:35:02 GMT

In article <Brst3z.BqL@news.cso.uiuc.edu> rls@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Ray Swartz (Oh, that guy again)) writes:

 Ray Swartz outlines some facts from a UPI item about a lawsuit against
Bell Helcopter Textron.
>
> CHICAGO (UPI) -- The estate of blues guitarist Stevie Ray Vaughan,

The term for this aspect of the litigation industry here in Canada is
called "Deep Pockets".  ie. If someone remotely connected to a potential
liability has more assets, than that party is included in the action
since even if the proportion of the blame is small, the ability to pay
is much larger (as a non lawyer, that's my best explanation of the term)
A recent major accident involving a logging truck and a farm wagon
loaded with people cast the net far enough to attach some portion of
the eventual settlement to a passenger vehicle (and their insurer) that
was several hundred metres past the actual accident site at the time
of the accident.  This accident attached costs to the highway dept.
(poorly designed road), truck driver, and two other vehicles nearby
although clearly (to a layman) the truck rounded a curve too fast
with a poorly secured load.

I make this rather long winded comment here in rec.aviation to
point out that litigation in Canada may be less of a problem than
in the USA, but we may be only a few years away from similar
scenarios.  One of the current aspects of Piper's possible sale
and move to Canada has been the product liability factor.  I suggest
the parties involved need to consider carefully whether the long
term climate is any different here.

I agree with the tone of Ray's comment; however I do think there is
a balance needed to keep manufacturers from knowingly producing
products that are unsafe based on current technology.

Eldo Hildebrand (ELDO@UNB.CA)  (Long time Tri-Z builder)
University of New Brunswick
Fredericton,N.B., Canada
From: stearns@Apple.COM (Bryan Stearns)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: So. Calif. Grumman A&P reference wanted
Summary: I need someone to do a prepurchase inspection
Keywords: Tiger Grumman A&P inspection
Date: 29 Jul 92 20:15:34 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Apple

A while back, I posted a message saying that I was looking for a used
Grumman Tiger. I got lots of helpful info and encouragement from the
net, so I'm turning to all of you again.

I've found an airplane in sothern California that looks interesting,
and I need to find an A&P to help with the prepurchase inspection.
I'd like to find someone who does a lot of work on Grumman singles,
and who is south of, say, Santa Barbara.

Please email me with your recommendations (I'll summarize to the net,
if anyone is interested), or give me a call!

Thanks again!
... Bryan

 .....................................................................
Bryan Stearns                                      Apple Computer, Inc.
(408) 974-3082                           20525 Mariani Avenue, M/S 50-B
stearns@apple.com                                   Cupertino, CA 95014
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: aboyd@quantum.on.ca (Andrew Boyd)
Subject: Re: Temperature Related Altimeter Errors
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 13:17:41 GMT
Organization: Quantum Software Systems

In article <vdkmw!c.rkaplan@netcom.com> rkaplan@netcom.com (Richard Kaplan) 
writes:
>The current issue of IFR has an interesting article on 
>temperature related altimeter errors, including some frightening
>examples of potential impact into terrain when flying 
>an instrument approach on a very cold day.
>
>This makes me wonder.... why do we not adjust our altimeter
>setting on the ground to correct for this?  

In the first few pages of the canadian CAP East (gov't approach plates
for the eastern half of canada) there is a table to help you fudge your
MDA/DH's on very cold days.  This subject has a way of popping up on 
initial checkrides, at least around here.

-----
#include <std.disclaimer>
From: randy@khan.gatech.edu (Randal T. Abler)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Shoulder Harnesses (Was: Re: Cessna sholdr harn review (BAS))
Date: 22 Jul 92 14:27:46 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology


|> In article <1992Jul21.185938.20291@pony.Ingres.COM>, kerry@Ingres.COM
|> (Kerry Kurasaki) writes:
|> 
|> > As trite as it may sound, the PROPER use of seat belts and shoulder
|> > harnesses cannot be overemphasized.
|> 
|> I agree with this, but I wish it was this simple.  I've never been able to 
|> get the shoulder harnesses in C-150s and 172s to stay attached to the lap
|> belt.  [...]
|> 
|> The only way I can prevent the shoulder harness buckle from coming undone is
|> to adjust the harness so tight that I can't reach the panel.  Not very 
|> useful.  
|> 
|> So, is there any way to fasten/adjust those things so they don't come undone
|> every few minutes?


In Cessna's, when that little plastic washer is gone (quite often), the
best solution is to loop the shoulder belt under the lap belt before hooking
it over the attachment knob.  

-- 
Randal T. Abler   	randy@cerl.gatech.edu		 
CERL/EE Georgia Tech     
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: BRIAN.M.CARR@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Brian Carr    (HARPS)")
Subject: Flying Costs in Mass
Organization: Wang Labs. Lowell
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:50:36 EST

   I have just recently started flying again. I had up until now
only flew in Grumman's and Pipers but the FBO I rented from has
since stopped renting (Liability I believe). Anyway I am now flying
a VFR Skyhawk (in fair condition) which is costing me $65 an hour
Wet/Hobbs. I could have stayed with a Tiger but it's a '91 and
would have cost me $75 an hour, again that being Wet/Hobbs.
For those that care, this is at Minuteman in Stow, Ma.
My questions to the Local Netters is, 1. is this an average price or
am I getting screwed. 2. What is the policy where you rent concerning
taking a plane for say a weekend ( ie. is there a minimum charge
and if so how much, how far in advance can you reserve, etc).
3. Are there any good clubs in the Stow/Marlboro/Fitchburg area?

Brian Carr
Newsgroups: rec.aviation