HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: ca.politics,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: 1 white male among new San Jose firemen of 22
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 19:20:28 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <e3VcoB1w164w@netlink.cts.com> galan@netlink.cts.com (Greg Gross) writes:
>slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Slagle) writes:

>Mark: Anyone, you or me or John or anyone else, who
>> >> advances the proposition that someone deserves some sort of
>> >> treatment, specifically pain in this case, because of their
>> >> skin color is a racist.  

>The idea is not -- repeat, *NOT* -- to have whites experience the
>pains of racism simply because they are white. It never was. The
>idea was/is to let the victimizer (TRANSLATION: those whites who
>hold racist attitudes and engage in racist conduct) walk in the shoes
>of the victim (TRANSLATION: the non-whites on the receiving end of
>such attitudes and conduct) in the hope that the victimizer will
>awaken to the evil s/he is doing...and desist.

Greg, how do you intend to distinguish between racist and non-racist
whites for this purpose?  Seems to me like this is a really pathetic
rationalization of racism.  Maybe we should beat up Blacks because
Blacks have a higher crim rate than Whites.  The ideas is not --
repeat, *NOT* -- to have blacks experience the pains of crime simply
because they are black. It never was.  The idea was/is to let the
victimizer (TRANSLATION: those blacks who commit crimes) walk in the
shoes of the victim (TRANSLATION: the non-blacks on the receiving end
of such conduct) in the hope that the victimizer will awaken to the
evil s/he is doing...and desist.


>  This is *not* about retribution, revenge, retaliation, payback.
>It is about finding a way to induce certain people to desist from
>certain hurtful attitudes and behavior. Nothing more, nothing less.

Which people?  How do you plan to identify them?


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
From: twalk@scg8a.scg.hac.com (Tyler Walker)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Pete Wilson & Dr. Seuss
Keywords: Poem
Date: 24 Jul 92 22:20:05 GMT
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co.

|> This is a two-way street.

|> If you blame Pete Wilson, blame also Willie Brown.  Robertie was willing to
|> sign to a budget, Brown was not.  (If memory serves me correct.  Please
|> correct me if I am wrong.  But don't flame, I am just trying to be a voice
|> of sanity).

   Your absolutly right.  I'll see if my poet friend can create
   an equally witty comment for Mr. Brown.

   If Pete is the Governor, does that make Willie the Anti-Govenor?  
                                                        :-) :-)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
- Tyler Walker                                                         =
= GM/Hughes Aircraft Co.     Email: twalk@scg8a.hac.com                -
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: ceb@dbrus.Unify.Com (Caroline E. Bryan)
Subject: Re: JUNE GENIS IN THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER!!
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization
Distribution: ca
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 17:09:07 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.170447.20688@gordian.com> mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
>
>  []
>  Actually the LA Times ran a similar thing on a slew of local candidates
>a couple of months ago, ...

Not to mention the Sacramento Catholic Herald, who did ditto with the primary
election candidates.  Maybe the practice isn't quite as extraordinarily rare
as one might be led to believe.


Carrie		ceb@rechenau.unify.com	x6244
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|		"Never" is about six months.   -- Charlie Gibbs		      |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Pete Wilson & Dr. Seuss
Keywords: Poem
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:41:09 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <22560@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM>, twalk@scg8a.scg.hac.com (Tyler Walker) writes:
# |# This is a two-way street.
# 
# |# If you blame Pete Wilson, blame also Willie Brown.  Robertie was willing to
# |# sign to a budget, Brown was not.  (If memory serves me correct.  Please
# |# correct me if I am wrong.  But don't flame, I am just trying to be a voice
# |# of sanity).
# 
#    Your absolutly right.  I'll see if my poet friend can create
#    an equally witty comment for Mr. Brown.
# 
#    If Pete is the Governor, does that make Willie the Anti-Govenor?  
#                                                         :-) :-)
# - Tyler Walker                                                         =

That explains the reluctance to meet -- they are afraid of mutual
destruction, leading to an enormous amount of gamma rays. :-)


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: GA.JRG@forsythe.stanford.edu (June Genis)
Subject: Re: Immigration (was Re: June Genis in the Orange County Register)
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: ca
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:23:51 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.202048.2470@cheshire.oxy.edu>,
leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:
>I'm sorry if I mis-interpreted your statement...
>
>I'd like to know exactly what sort of "entitlements" we are talking about...
>education, health care, hospitalization, welfare, what?

Personally I mean any entitlements where an entitlement is defined
as a payment or service provided from the government which does not
have to be in any way purchased or earned by the claimant.  This
indeed would include things like education since we claim that every
child is entitles to an education.  In fact, over crowding of local
schools in the southern part of the state is in fact a major reason
that there is so much hostility toward immigration down there.

Now before anyone blows a fuse, this does not mean that I think we
should deny an education to the children of working immigrants.  If
their parents are on the tax roles they should be admitted.  If
they are being sustained by a family sponsor, I think we should
require the sponsor to make some payment toward school expenses.

Of course, I'd like to see our entire education system privatized
anyway so what we're talking about here is formulating a reasonable
transition policy and I'll admit I don't have all the answers.  My
goal would be to make sure that taxes collected from immigrants were
channeled to providing services for those immigrants.

Unfortunately, since there is little relationship anymore to the way
we collect taxes and how we spend them this could be a book-keeping
nightmare without major tax restructuring.  The general technique I
favor is tax-credits.  For example, if someone with no children was
sponsoring an immigrant family with school age children they would
be able to direct their educational tax credit toward paying for the
education of that family's children.

>Somehow, I can't picture someone actually preferring living on the dole in
>a foriegn country, especially considering how pitiful the lifestyle is,
>to working in their own country.  One would have to be pretty desperate.

It's horrible to have to think about, but the fact is that being on
the dole in the US provides a much better standard of living than
many people could ever hope to achieve in their own counties.

>I just think the whole issue is a red herring.

Unfortunately, it isn't.  I think it was last month's California
Republic that had an excellent article on the pressures that
immigration is placing on some small communities in SoCal and some
of the bookkeeping machinations that are going on to get around some
of the red tape created in trying to meet real needs.

>Thom

/June
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: "Homophobic Rampages"?
Date: 22 Jul 92 00:21:27 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <91365@bu.edu>, kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
> In article <11314@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
# #If you had children, [June], you would recognize why so many parents are
# #pissed and worried about groups like the North American Man-Boy Love
# #Association, and their defenders, the homosexual community.
# 
# I'm surprised you haven't reported on the faring of NAMBLA in the last
# SF Gay Pride parade. NAMBLA was met with a roar of boos all along the
# parade route.
# 
# But then again, that would undercut your argument.

I'm told that happened; I would be more impressed if the Gay Perotistas
hadn't been excluded, but NAMBLA had been.

I also understand that a number of signs were carried that expressed
support for NAMBLA vs. "yellow journalism."
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,ba.politics
Subject: Re: California libraries/dire need
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:35:42 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Jul23.222940.9692@leland.Stanford.EDU>, miballar@leland.Stanford.EDU (Michael Ballard) writes:
> The latest information I have shows that the net worth of the top
> 1% of the population in the U.S.A. is around $5.7 trillion.  The
> 834,000 households belonging to this group are certainly fortunate
> as their net worth is greater than 90% of the U.S. households.
> These miserable people, most of them working for wages and salaries,
> have a combined net worth of only $4.8 trillion.

Odd, I'm one of those miserable people, and I hadn't noticed my
misery, or my inability to buy books.

> That's enough for them to buy their own 84 million libraries.  If they

Who proposed that?

> didn't want a library, then maybe they could rent a video or watch
> TV for free.  Rabbit ears are cheap.  And what the heck, they don't
> read anyway.  Ben Franklin was full of it when he started this 
> public library thing.  

Again, more liberal ignorance at work.  Ben Franklin did NOT start
public libraries.  Go read _The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin_.
What he started was a privately funded subscription library.  He and
a few other elitists who liked to read each kicked in some money to
buy some books that were available to other members of the library
society.  It was NOT a public library.  It had no tax funding; it
was not open to the general public -- only to members.

> Down with intelligence for those who can't afford it.
> Ignorance is bliss anyway.
> Leave the 1% alone--devil take the hindmost.

If liberals actually wanted to tax the 1%, they might get taken
seriously.  But all they really seem to tax is those of us "rich
people" who make more than minimum wage.

> Fund the police, prisons, fire departments (if we can't find volunteers)
> and the military.  Let charity take care of the rest.

Libertarians argue that these functions are not special -- they should
be funded voluntarily also.


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.
From: brad@optilink.UUCP (Brad Yearwood)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Pete Wilson & Dr. Seuss
Keywords: Poem
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:29:50 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <11416@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> In article <22560@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM>, twalk@scg8a.scg.hac.com (Tyler Walker) writes:
>
> #    If Pete is the Governor, does that make Willie the Anti-Govenor?  
>
> That explains the reluctance to meet -- they are afraid of mutual
> destruction, leading to an enormous amount of gamma rays. :-)
> 

Let there be light.

Brad Yearwood    brad@optilink.com   uunet!optilink!brad
Petaluma, CA
From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: I'm Enraged: ECO92 NWO Progrom
Date: 21 Jul 92 21:45:10 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.



Gee, this was your first contact with the Safe Use people,
huh?  This particular paper is from a member of a group
who's purpose is to destroy the environmental movement.

The scary thing is that since this is a corporate interest,
their form of misinformation seems to win out.


FWA
From: zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: I'm Enraged: NWO Genocide; Health Care and War
Date: 21 Jul 92 22:32:03 GMT
Reply-To: zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Organization: SGI TechPubs


Len,

    Don't worry, they won't have time to implement all this. I got a flyer on my car
last weekend informing me that God had told some 15 year old kid that the Rapture
was going to happen this October. 

I figure that this flyer is about as likely to be accurate as those "news" stories about 
gulags in the U.S. 

JZ
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: GA.JRG@forsythe.stanford.edu (June Genis)
Subject: Re: JUNE GENIS IN THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER!!
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: ca
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 23:41:55 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.171156.20412@igor.tamri.com>,
donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin) writes:
>Citizenship for immigrants should not depend on how much money they
>have.  Don't you think that someone who's worked for a couple years here
>and exhibited good moral character should be able to get citizenship
>faster than any old schmoe who just wanders in and plops down a couple
>million?

Depends on what you mean by "plops down".  Someone who invests a
couple of million in a business has clearly indicated an interest in
things long term.  While the act of becoming a citizen ought to mean
that in and of itself, what citizenship means in practical terms is
the right to vote.  If someone just comes here to work and doesn't
see themselves as staying any longer than it takes to milk whatever
they can out of the system and then go back to where their "real"
roots are, I don't especially want to see them voting, since they
will have a vested interest in voting for anyone who promises to
give them something for nothing.  So what if it will screw the
economy ten years down the pike, they won't be around to deal with
the consequences.

I don't see any way to screen this sort of person out except
to have a long enough residency requirement that such people will
probably give up and go "home" before they can vote.  Someone who
has financial assets invested in the country is not going to just
walk away from them so why make that person wait as long as the
person whose level of commitment we have no way to judge?  I'd
certainly be willing to consider other sorts of things that could be
applied against a residency requirement as well as financial
investment, but offhand I haven't got anything to suggest.  Do you?

/June
From: twalk@scg8a.scg.hac.com (Tyler Walker)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Pete Wilson & Dr. Seuss
Keywords: Poem
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:06:02 GMT
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co.


scoyle@library.Berkeley.EDU  writes....

   I will not sign a budget soon
   I will not sign a budget in June
   I will not sign a budget now
   I may not sign one anyhow

   I will not close the budget gap
   I do not have a budget map
   Do not throw it in my lap
   Blame it on a Democrat.

   I do not care how long it takes
   I do not care what pain it makes
   I do not mind the chaos now
   I may not sign it anyhow.

   I could not would not have a plan
   I would not could not sign their plan
   I could not would not sign my plan
   I would not could not Pete I am.


Newsgroups: ca.politics,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american
From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman)
Subject: Re: 1 white male among new San Jose firemen of 22
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 23:12:43 GMT

In article <e3VcoB1w164w@netlink.cts.com> galan@netlink.cts.com (Greg Gross) writes:
>The idea is not -- repeat, *NOT* -- to have whites experience the
>pains of racism simply because they are white. It never was. The
>idea was/is to let the victimizer (TRANSLATION: those whites who
>hold racist attitudes and engage in racist conduct) walk in the shoes
>of the victim (TRANSLATION: the non-whites on the receiving end of
>such attitudes and conduct) in the hope that the victimizer will
>awaken to the evil s/he is doing...and desist.

Okay.  The subject of this thread is that San Jose had an applicant
pool that was mostly white males and only one out of the 22 hired
were white males.

Did San Jose screen out all of the victimizer-whites in the applicant
pool and then pick that one, or did they bias the selection procedure
against ALL white males?  If the former, how did they do it?  If the
latter, the "idea" seems to have been lost.  Maybe the
victimizer-whites being selected are in the current firefighter
population; how did is the selection appropriate in that case?

>  This is *not* about retribution, revenge, retaliation, payback.
>It is about finding a way to induce certain people to desist from
>certain hurtful attitudes and behavior. Nothing more, nothing less.

Okay.  Show me how said inducements are targetted at said certain
people and not others who happen to have the same genital
configuration or ethnicity.

-andy
--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: GA.JRG@forsythe.stanford.edu (June Genis)
Subject: Re: JUNE GENIS IN THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER!!
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: ca
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:18:40 GMT

In article <18982@fritz.filenet.com>,
asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk) writes:
>I can hardly believe it!  We actually got >>GASP!!<< media coverage of
>a Libertarion candidate!  It ain't much, but it's a start!  (June, the
>picture in the paper is MUCH nicer than the one in the Lib.newsletter!)

Thanks, Maybe becausae it's a couple of years older :-)

>Refererence: Orange County Register, July 20, 1992
>Page: A3
>Senate Candidates (long seat) & The Issues
>IMMIGRATION
>June Genis, Libertarian
>
>Supports loosening and simplyfying immigration laws to allow people to
>work if they are willing to give up entitlements or welfare.  Says
>illegal immigration would fall dramatically under such a plan.

Thanks for sending me this.  I think the Register has been very fair
about soliciting input from all the candidates.  In fact, when I let
them know that I'd missed a deadline on "Abortion" because they'd
faxed it to my office when I was taking some vacation to move, they
sent the next ones (Immigration and Trade) to me both at the office
and at home.  I think people who are looking for fair and broad
coverage of the election would do well to follow the Register.

I think they also did a very good job of summarizing my position
from a much longer statement (a couple of longer paragraphs) and
even called to clarify my position on illegal immigration.  It was
so obvious to me that illegal immigration wouldn't be a significant
problem under my proposal that I didn't say it explicitly.

BTW,  I'm too poor to afford a statewide clipping service so if
any of you would like to volunteer to clip material on both me and
my opponents in your local paper I'd appreciate it.  Drop me private
email if you're interested in helping.

/June
Xref: sparky ca.politics:6193 ba.politics:3941 talk.politics.misc:36772 talk.religion.misc:13130 talk.origins:9002 talk.abortion:29722
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,ba.politics,talk.politics.misc,talk.religion.misc,talk.origins,talk.abortion
Subject: Food for Thought: Sexuality Origins
Date: 31 Jul 92 16:21:39 GMT
Followup-To: ca.politics
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: kane@buast7.bu.edu

With all of this talk about the origin of sexuality, especially the tenacious
adamant insistence that sexuality is a choice or is learned, I'd thought
I'd share a conversation I had recently. To protect his identity, I'll
call my converser "Jack". Jack says he is gay, and he has been totally blind
since birth:

Me (finally getting up enough courage to ask Jack) :
"Jack, how did you come to realize you were gay? I mean, how in hell do you
figure something like that out without having sight?"

Jack : "It took me a while to pinpoint just what attracted me to men. At
first I thought it was their voices. But then I realized that I actually
liked the softer voice of women much better."

Me : "What about touch? Did that affect your decision?"

Jack : "Not really. I had decided I was gay before I even touched another
man in a sexual way. This will surprise you, but I decided it had to be
my sense of smell. The smell of certain men just drives me wild."

---

Jack was right. I was surprised. But the more I thought the more sense it
made. I saw a PBS special recently which gave details on just how we smell,
how it is the first sense fully developed in all mammalian species, including
humans. For instance, human babies lack sufficient visual acuity to recognize
even their mothers for several weeks, even months, after birth. They identify
their mothers by smell.

The sense of smell is directed by parts of the brain with strong connections
to both visual memory and sexual arousal.

My theory is this. We all know that very young children can get sexually
aroused. This first arousal may be the brain's response to an odor it
finds pleasant. If the odor is coming from a man or from a woman, then the
brain may register the smell and the visual image together. In that way
through consistent reinforcement the subliminal pleasure the brain receives
through smell can be built up into a set of strongly suggestive visual
memories.

We may think that our first sexual attraction is entirely visual, but
it may be the brains recollection of images it has stored in conjunction
with pleasant smells.

And since sense of smell preferences largely dictates gustatorial pleasures,
sexual orientation and taste for lima beans may not be so far removed as you
would think. ;>

Brian.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,
Boston, MA 02215. True personal salvation is achieved by absolute faith in
oneself.
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