HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Gretchen@fquest.FidoNet.Org (Gretchen)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: Re: Who accepts submissions
Date: 7 Dec 92 23:16:15 GMT

Ah, ok.  There always seemed to be a bit of "count the warranted
heralds" with the new group herald being one of the warranted around
here when the position changed hands, that it didn't occur to be that
group herald and warranted herald were not necessarily the same thing.
Sorry to be misleading.  On the other hand, it really should be the case
that group herald = warranted herald.  Perhaps this should be an issue
raised at the next Aethelmearc/East Curia, or (since Corpora defines
"herald" as a required office) BOD meeting.  Handling submissions does
seem to be part of the default expectations from a group herald...

toodles, margaret
From: thomas@fquest.FidoNet.Org (thomas)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: pheon as badge
Date: 4 Dec 92 22:18:54 GMT

Some months back, Thorvald Redhair, Dragon Principal Herald, attempted to
 registist
er:

        (Fieldless), Per Pale, Argent and Gules a Pheon.

It came into conflict with:

        (Fieldless), Tinctureless, a pheon (Badge of King/Queen of England)

As I remember, one use of this badge was to mark trees that were going to be
cut
 t
 for the Royal Navy for masts.

Lothar \|/
        0
From: David@fquest.FidoNet.Org (David)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: Re:  Device checking
Date: 4 Dec 92 15:06:31 GMT

Just in case any of you were as confused as I was by a recent letter with the
opening "Greetings Berwyn from Bjalfi!" and the signature "Eoin", I'd like to
say that I didn't send it.  My guess is Eoin did.
--Bjalfi
From: Diane.Pilkington@fquest.FidoNet.Org (Diane Pilkington)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: New to this stuff
Date: 4 Dec 92 20:42:08 GMT


 -=> Quoting Debbie Lewis to Jim Long <=-

 DL> material.  So I am already ready for that part.  It all 
 DL> sounds so interesting and fun.ber to

 It is. Events are where all of it can "come together".

 DL> That is fine.  I just am interested in what it is all about.  I heard 
 DL> about this from a friend of mine who still resides in Florida.
 
 Welcome aboard! A word of advice, from someone Who's Been 
 There: if your initial foray to an SCA activity isn't
 what you thought it would be, KEEP GOING. Travel around,
 visit other groups and see what it's like all over. -Then-
 make up your mind. I was first exposed to the SCA in [name
 omitted], and was treated so rudely that I (being fifteen,
 and young and foolish) turned my back on the Society for
 three years, until I went to college and encountered a
 different group of people. I've met some truly noble souls
 in this group. Wouldn't trade it for the world.

 > rest of the SCA's "Knowne World" can address you as "Milady

 DL> That would be fine too.
 DL> Lady Guinevere or shall I be Milady Guinevere right now.

 "Lady" is a title which is restricted to those who have 
 received an Award of Arms, the workhorse of service
 recognition in the Society. It is the lowest level award
 which carries a title and rank.

 "Milady" and its various forms is a courtesy form of address
 suitable for informal situations where rank is not known for
 certain. It is NOT a title, and should not be used as such,
 in court or correspondence.

 ***There is no dishonor in one's name.*** People often
 feel awkward calling someone by just their name, and often
 feel that some sort of title "ought to" precede the name.
 They shouldn't. If people come to associate your name with
 "hard worker", "generous", "kind-hearted", "good artist",
 etc., this has far more meaning than titles which you may
 earn. Most experienced members of the Society can name a
 person who has heaps of titles and gets no respect, and 
 someone who has few titles and is revered.

 So, just call yourself Guinevere, and make it mean -you-.

 Serena
 (who has a few awards, but doesn't feel a need to advertise)
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
From: Bruce.Milmine@fquest.FidoNet.Org (Bruce Milmine)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: Poll Message
Date: 10 Dec 92 06:03:00 GMT

MC>  This is our annual poll message.  Since traffic on this echo seems to
  >  have subsided I would like to know how many participants we have.
  >  Also any suggestions or tips?
  >    Marv Cotton, Co-Moderator

  New here, what does one do?  Are there rules?

                           012 () ...wam 210
 ~ OLX 2.2 ~ The Human Race - Membership is a Privilege
From: Taras@fquest.FidoNet.Org (Taras)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: Re: Foam-fighters
Date: 3 Dec 92 14:25:17 GMT


 > Boy, talk about a reality check. I've gotten spoiled over
 > here. It is
 > against the law to carry even so much as a penknife, unless
 > you use it
 
In such backwards cultures I carry a tightly rolled magazine. There was a young
ruffian in an Atlanta parking garage that when he woke up must have had a
_heck_ of a time explaining the broken arm and the doughnut shaped bruise in
the middle of his forehead.
 
A great fuss was made once by some hoplophobe lady in a kingdom newsletter. A
group of folks was leaving about the time closing court was _finally_
 announced. So they dug out cloaks to cover their mundanes. But, Omigawd, 
they were wearing _firearms_! It was pointed out to her with (much) amusement
that not only was it legal there, it was not a bad idea when driving in from
the middle of nowhere at night.
From: Josh@fquest.FidoNet.Org (Josh)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: Marshalling;
Date: 3 Dec 92 15:31:35 GMT

Greetings from Arval!

Moreach asked:

> I find myself unclear on how to avoid the appearance of marshalled arms.
> Is it done by making the line of division complex?

You avoid the appearance of marshalling by (1) having a charge or identical
charge group that crosses the line of division:

  Quarterly purpure and Or, a rose counterchanged between in bend two
  martlets and in bend sinister two millrinds.
  Per pale argent and sable, two lions rampant and in chief three mullets
  counterchanged.

This includes using a single identical group on the field:

  Quarterly gules and Or, four mullets counterchanged.
  Quarterly argent and vert, in bend two horse's heads gules.

or (2) using a complex line of division:

  Per pale nebuly azure and Or, two swords counterchanged.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Berwyn proposed:

  Purpure, three acorns or within a bordure or ermined purpure.

Lovely!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Berwyn also asked about the name Alys van Schaack of Lynnencorre.  The
lady's name is registered in that form.  The last change was registered
9/91.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Fairfax asked about the name "House Applegarth."

Decion, "garth" is a Middle English term meaning "farm" or "enclosed plot
of land".  Its use as a toponymic term is correct.

I think Dragon was overzealous in this case.  I am not aware that the
placename is a major site of activity in that book, or that it appears in
several books.  It is certainly not "peculiarly" associated with Merlin,
since it appears only in Mary Stewart's book.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Berwyn asked:

> Someone on the Rialto mentioned a heraldry test or pursuivant's
> certification exam or something.  What is this and how can I find out
> more about it.  Is it society wide, or just a kingdom thing?

Some kingdoms have tests to certify their pursuivants.  I believe the West
Kingdom and Caid are two such.  We considered the possibility while I was
Brigantia, but decided that it was unsuited to the East: We have a hard
enough time finding willing volunteers to fill every office without placing
roadblocks in their way, and we have other educational tools that seem to
serve our purposes.

        Arval.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: Bruce@fquest.FidoNet.Org (Bruce)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: Various
Date: 4 Dec 92 00:58:01 GMT

Berwynn writes:

<Will she have to submit a new action for this?  Will she need extensive
documentation, as the husband's name is registered?  Is there a problem with
a French lady married to a Dutch lord?  She says she was told (By whom I
don't know) that she would have to wait till Jan's name appeared in the
armorial.  Is this true?  I don't have the updates, so can't check to see if
its there.  I would think if she could reference the LoAR it would suffice.>

She would have to submit a Change of Registered Name, which is a new
(chargable) action.  She can claim her husband's name under the Grandfather
clause, but if she can document it that's even better (and since it's only
just recently passed, I presume that the documentation is easily available).
I doubt that the CoA would find a French-Dutch marriage particularly
unlikely, especially if it's possible to document the names to the same time
period.  She doesn't have to wait until the name appears in an armorial; a
reference to the LoAR is plenty of evidence.  (Where _do_ these silly
rumours come from?)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Caradoc writes:

<Does the name Caradoc of House Tarnished Pheon work, or for that matter,
House Tarnished Pheon? The big question is of course is Tarnished a period
word. I believe I read somewhere about it being first documented in 1550's,
but I could be wrong.>

Will it work (i.e., will it pass)?  Very probably.  (Actually, I take that
back ... Laurel is very tough on Household names nowadays, this may well not
pass his current standards.)

Does it resemble a Period name in any way?  Not in the slightest.

I strongly suggest you speak with some of the many, many heralds in the
Mists to get some ideas for _real_ names.  Mistress Keridwen ferch Morgan
Glasfryn would be a good start, since "Caradoc" is Welsh if I recall
correctly.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Berwynn writes:

<Someone on the Rialto mentioned a heraldry test or pursuivant's
certification exam or something.  (no, not the geek test).  What is this and
how can I find out more about it.  Is it society wide, or just a kingdom
thing?>

It's a Kingdom thing.  The West has used a very simple armory-only exam for
many years now, but it's importance in the rostering process has declined
considerably in the last few years, to the point where it's now only an
optional extra.  I have seen the Caidan exam, which is much more
comprehensive, touching nearly all facets of Society heraldry in a
reasonably friendly way.  I don't know how much weight the Caidan CoH
attaches to it, however.

In general a competent (or incompetent) herald is recognisable by his/her
deeds.  A test can be handy for borderline cases, but I'd much rather see
for myself or hear recommendations from other rostered heralds.

Decion
Crux Australis
From: Berwyn@fquest.FidoNet.Org (Berwyn)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: Device checking
Date: 3 Dec 92 04:43:16 GMT

I tried posting this here a while back, but I think it dissapperaed, as I
never saw it show up.

I drew up a new device and its been hangin on my wall for a few days now.
Looks pretty good in my opinion, and on a 7" escutcheon is recognizeable the
lenght of my appartment, 30 ft.  By my reconning it is cleaar of SCA
conflict, so now all that remains is for someone with access to Papworth et
al to find a mundane conflict and break my heart.  The blazon:

Purpure, three acorns or within a bordure or ermined purpure.

Couldn't remember the default for theacorns, and its different for SCA and
Real Life, but I have the caps to chief.  They fit the escutcheon so much
better that way.

Thanks for all your help.

Berwyn
From: Marv.Cotton@fquest.FidoNet.Org (Marv Cotton)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: Poll Message
Date: 17 Dec 92 04:25:00 GMT

PM>MC>  This is our annual poll message.  Since traffic on this echo seems to
PM>MC>  have subsided I would like to know how many participants we have.

PM>I read faithfully! :)   Could the slow down of traffic have anything to
PM>do with the holidays?  As horrible as it sounds, many people interested
PM>in many public service things, seem to leave that "thing" behind at
PM>Christmas time....


PM> * SLMR 2.1 * Hello, I am part number ||#||||#||#||#||


PM>--- WM v2.05/92-0059
PM> * Origin: (1:2202/0)

    I think you're right.  Thanks Peggy,
     Marv

 * OLX 2.2 * Children Deserve To Be Free and Feel Safe
From: Tim.Of.Angle@fquest.FidoNet.Org (Tim Of Angle)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: Re: crown (was gazettes)
Date: 5 Dec 92 13:51:42 GMT

D> *** Quoting Mark Eric Stein to Dathi ***

 MES> Yeeeesh, listen to you. Have you ever been Kingdom
 MES> Senechal? in a second term, I didn't ask why....

 D> So we are about to have a new Brigantia? Any idea who?

I'm not about to ask any questions ... Fridrikr still hasn't sent me the copies
of those two LOIs that I need.

    Tadhg
From: Peggy.Mcbride@fquest.FidoNet.Org (Peggy Mcbride)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: Poll Message
Date: 6 Dec 92 11:37:00 GMT

MC>  This is our annual poll message.  Since traffic on this echo seems to
MC>  have subsided I would like to know how many participants we have.

I read faithfully! :)   Could the slow down of traffic have anything to
do with the holidays?  As horrible as it sounds, many people interested
in many public service things, seem to leave that "thing" behind at
Christmas time....


 * SLMR 2.1 * Hello, I am part number 3:^:3:3[3:]3:]33
From: Marv.Cotton@fquest.FidoNet.Org (Marv Cotton)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: Poll Message
Date: 9 Dec 92 01:48:00 GMT

BN> > I would like to know how many
BN> > participants we have.
BN> >   Also any suggestions or tips?

BN>I'm still here......

BN>                            Regards, *Bob*

BN>--- FMail 0.92
BN> * Origin: The 3 L's - SuperBBS Support/Reg/Beta Site *USA* (1:267/125)

  Thanks Bob.
    Marv

 * OLX 2.2 * Children Deserve To Be Free and Feel Safe
From: Kristal.Andes@fquest.FidoNet.Org (Kristal Andes)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: 09-10-92 (00:20) gifs
Date: 3 Dec 92 07:55:00 GMT

EL>From: erik@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Erik Lode)
EL>Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

EL>Greg Naber <greg@halcyon.com> writes:

EL>> The reason he has to keep track of the systems keeping the files on
line,
EL>> is that when one child is found, that picture can be removed from
EL>> distribution.

EL>  When a child is found, how is that information propagated?  A while ago
EL>I saw some notices on alt.missing-kids, but I haven't seen anything
lately.
EL>(I hope that doesn't mean no kids have been found since then.)  Is there
EL>a file from the server I should be requesting periodically?

EL>  It's too bad about the loss of the ftp services.  I was able to get most
EL>of the gifs from the server, but a few of the file collections didn't
work.


EL>        Erik Lode               HP MCSY (Measurement Control System
Division
EL>        erik@hpfcrom.hp.com     Phone (303) 229-6903

   create the GIFs from I need a way to ensure that I can notify people
   when the children are found.
     I have two files CHILDMIS.ZIP and CHILDFND.ZIP which are compressed
   text files containing the list of all of the children we have
   distributed GIFs on and those that have been found.  I would be happy
   to make the files available if I could be sure that any systems that
   had the files could be notified to remove the GIfs when a child is
   found.
      Marv Cotton,  Heidi Search Center  512-659-0338  voice.

Question , how can I upload gifs onto my 386? 9600  computer file system
,and where is a Jersey chapter? For more info..


 * OLX 2.1 * taglines BITE !!
From: Craig@fquest.FidoNet.Org (Craig)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: Re: Arms, or lack thereof
Date: 4 Dec 92 04:01:24 GMT

That's a pretty interesting question. Why _should_ personas who lived
before heraldry was common, let alone in cultures that never had
heraldry, try to register arms?

I really don't see a reason. If I had a Teutonic persona (anyone
European from the fall of Rome until the 1100's), I'd try to register
a personal badge of some sort that would use runes. I know the
Japanese used _mon_, but what about people from the other Oriental
lands, or India? Perhaps Indian Moslems used the Arabian style?

Nobody should stop people from registring arms, but an educated herald
ought to recommend personal badges/marks/whatever that are native to
that culture, IMO.

Su Servidor,

Bibo, ergo Sum!
      -Baron Sir Ivanof v. Schloss

Craig Levin/Pedro de Alcazar, Illiton, MKdm moonman@camelot.bradley.edu
From: Linda.Davis@fquest.FidoNet.Org (Linda Davis)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: Poll Message
Date: 10 Dec 92 05:23:00 GMT

Hi Marvin! I sent out a message the other day letting you know that I am
now carrying this conf. here in Nova Scotia, Canada... Waiting for an NEW
Fido Nodelist so that i can send you the "Request" With my Fido Address.
It is suppose to be 1:255/17 but there might have been an error in
receiving this number. Have to wait and view list to be sure.

Take care..

    inda
 ~ OLX 2.2 ~ All right, we'll call it a draw.
From: Marv.Cotton@fquest.FidoNet.Org (Marv Cotton)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: Poll Message
Date: 9 Dec 92 01:54:00 GMT

RL>*** Quoting Marv Cotton to All dated 12-04-92 ***
RL>>   This is our annual poll message.  Since traffic on this echo seems to
RL>>   have subsided I would like to know how many participants we have.
RL>>   Also any suggestions or tips?

RL>I'm still here, Marv.  Everything looks good!

RL>ps.. a user from my system inadvertently posted an off-topic message
RL>in this area.. my humble apologies to all, and please delete it from
RL>your systems.  Thanks!!

RL>--- T.A.G. 2.6c1 Standard
RL> * Origin: -=*HeavnBBS*=-Pearland,TX(713)996-5352 (1:106/5352@FIDONET.ORG)

 Thanks Ruth.
   Marv

 * OLX 2.2 * Children Deserve To Be Free and Feel Safe
From: Cecily@fquest.FidoNet.Org (Cecily)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: Re: pheon as badge
Date: 7 Dec 92 20:42:38 GMT

One use of the pheon may have been to mark trees for the royal navy, but
is this also the broad arrow which is the traditional design on the
prison clothes of British convicts, like the traditional American black
stripes?  Since they are technically Her Majesty's prisons, I suspect
that it is.  Does anyone know why that particular badge was chosen for
that use?  (N.B.  I don't know whether British prisons still use convict
uniforms.  They may have gone over to jeans like most of ours.)
From: Nezumi@fquest.FidoNet.Org (Nezumi)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: Good Italian?
Date: 4 Dec 92 15:54:52 GMT


 Well, as a former member of the White Company, all Italians seemed to fall
into two classes: paymaster or foe. Sometimes both at different time....
From: uunet!RPI.EDU!habura.One@fquest.FidoNet.Org (uunet!RPI.EDU!habura One)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: Re:  signup and question.
Date: 4 Dec 92 20:24:56 GMT

One problem I happen to know about: One of the Kingdoms has an Order of the
Pheon. As "Tarnished" is an adjective, it cannot clear the name from conflict.
I remember this name from recent CoA returns; does anyone have an Armorial
they can look it up in?


(on hand, of course. I have an Armorial...just not at work.)

Alison
From: David.Lyle@fquest.FidoNet.Org (David Lyle)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: Gosh those SCA...
Date: 9 Dec 92 00:02:58 GMT


 CF> Obviously you need to consult THE KNOWN WORLD HANDBOOK 
 CF> before you go about giving the advice you do.  As this 
 CF> Echo is NOT a published SCA event, the lady can use the 
 CF> "title" (actually, to be polite, we call all women 
 CF> 'Lady' regardless) However, IF the woman has an AWARD 
 CF> OF ARMS, she is entitled to use LADY as part of her 

thou hast jumpest onto the wrong toes here....

FYI, I was defending the Lady's right to use title as she will, since this is
not an SCA exclusive hangout...and some of us non-sca folk don't give a ****
(FITB) what people call themselves.  (Truth be known, that's more accurate
period-wise anyway)
From: Charles@fquest.FidoNet.Org (Charles)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: List and College
Date: 3 Dec 92 15:07:20 GMT

This list forms an excellent vehicle for mutual education and can and should
be used to discuss issues before the College of Arms and the Laurel Office as
long as we remember that the list has no official status and what is agreed to
here has no effect on Laurel decisions directly. The list should not be used
to replace the official correspondence of the College of Arms. In particular
it is an abuse of the list and a massive discourtesy to those having important
and difficult offices to critique the decisions of the submissions heralds and
the policies of the Principal Heralds without including those individuals in
the discussion. I can sympathize with the East at the moment in that Brigantia
should not be pilloried for his decisions when he is not here to defend
himself. As neither the Gold Falcon nor the Saker Heralds are on this list I
would strongly object to a discussion of their actions and decisions "behind
their back." Let us use a list like this for its strengths in sharing
knowledge and learning. Let us not fall in to the trap of double guessing
warranted officers
From: Marv.Cotton@fquest.FidoNet.Org (Marv Cotton)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: Poll Message
Date: 17 Dec 92 04:25:00 GMT

BN> > I would like to know how many
BN> > participants we have.
BN> >   Also any suggestions or tips?

BN>I'm still here......

BN>                            Regards, *Bob*

BN>--- FMail 0.92
BN> * Origin: The 3 L's - SuperBBS Support/Reg/Beta Site *USA* (1:267/125)


  Thanks Bob.
    Marv

 * OLX 2.2 * Children Deserve To Be Free and Feel Safe
From: David.Bodman@fquest.FidoNet.Org (David Bodman)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: ASFA and the DOS Armorial
Date: 7 Dec 92 19:36:14 GMT

Hello Bob!

04 Dec 92, Bob Upson writes to Tim Of Angle:

 TOA>> The NODELIST/NODEDIFF style database is one of the alternatives that
 TOA>> my team is considering for our ARMOURY program ...

 BU> Although I agree wholeheartedly that a ARMSLIST/DIFF concept would be
 BU> wonderful, I wouldn't want to use the system used to combine fidonet
 BU> nodelists/diffs.

 BU> Since ARMORIAL.TXT is a sorted file, it lends itself to far more
efficient
 BU> merge operations than something like a nodelist.

Actually, there is a very easy way to take care of the update, a PD program
ported over from Unix called SED {Stream Editor}.  It can do replacements,
deletions, and additions without too much problem... Works on a "pattern
regonition" a la GREP, and allows you to replace the items in a stream from an
input file to an output file... This would even work on Armorial Segments,
where a user had to cut the Amorial into peices on many disks. Since only
patterns in the proper peice would be recognised, those edits would take place,
the rest would be ignored...

The only tricky thing is the input file, but that shouldn't be too hard for
anyone versed in Unix type constructs...

If I can get a few "update" files, I'll be working on some scripts...

Daoud

|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Daoud al-Bodmani, Chronicler, Shire of Hindscroft, Atlantia        |
| David Bodman, P. O. Box 77108, Greensboro, NC 27403 (919) 333-2162 |
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| * + *      Fighters should be obscene and not absurd.      * + *   |
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