From: achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Jeff Achenbach)
Subject: Re: Self Regulating Populations
Organization: TI Semiconductor Process and Design Center
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 19:56:01 GMT

In article <BtwuF7.14s@wpg.com> russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence) writes:
>
>Russell Lawrence writes:
>rl> Consider the example I mentioned previously.  Let's suppose you
>rl> have a room that's infested with cockroaches, some of which prefer
>rl> sunlit walls and some of which prefer dark crevasses.  If you kill
>rl> the roaches that prefer light, would it be reasonable for an 
>rl> observer to say that the remaining bugs had "learned" to hide?
>
>From article <1992Sep1.142827.18319@spdc.ti.com>, by achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Jeff Achenbach):
>ja> I think both mechanisms are probably at work.  Individual animals 
>ja> can sometimes be recognized by their tracks, habits, and in the 
>ja> case of bucks, distinctive antlers.  Behavioral changes in 
>ja> response to hunting pressure have been observed.  
>
>Would you mind pointing me to some evidence?  In the case I mentioned,
>it's clear that the roaches that love the dark had not simply learned
>to hide.  Rather, the observer had merely fooled himself into assuming
>that such learning had taken place.
>

I don't know if you would considerable my evidence acceptable, but my direct
experience has been by pre-season scouting and hiking followed by hunting when
the season opens. Deer that have been seen all through the summer suddenly 
seem to vanish at the first sign of hunting pressure. In the area where I grew 
up hunting it was mostly private land and everyone knew who was hunting in the
vicinity. Deer are a constant topic of conversation in rural Pennsylvania. If
a good buck was killed, or even a young one, everyone knew. How many doe were 
taken at various camps was also common knowledge. Go pick up any current
national outdoor magazine (Outdoor Life, Field and Stream, Sports Afield) now
and you will find articles describing how deer respond to hunting pressure and
other disturbances. This is important knowledge for anyone who wants to be 
successful when hunting deer. Among folks where I grew up, hunters and
nonhunters alike, this fell into the realm of common knowledge, a fact of life.
I wonder if you don't believe individual deer are recognizable? They have
different appearances in much the same way as, for instance, purebred dogs of
the same species. Subtle, but recognizeable if you've spent enough time
watching them. 
   If you don't mind, I'm curious as to how much time you've spent in the wild
studying animals, whether birdwatching or whatever. I get a feeling you have a 
tremendous amount of knowledge from reading, but how about interaction? None of
my business is an ok answer. It doesn't affect the validity of an argument at
all. I'm just wondering why you seem to think deer are so helpless, dumb, or
whatever. Apparently I have a higher opinion of their mental powers, perhaps
too high, I suppose.

>ja> Behavior which 
>ja> is learned or inherited and has a high survival value would 
>ja> acertainly be expected to be passed on.  
>
>Please explain how behavior that is learned would be passed along 
>in deer.  In view of the fact that the average population of the
>deer herd in the US is extremely young [thanks to hunting], I don't
>understand how/why anyone would appeal to transmitted knowledge
>(aka "culture") to explain deer behavior.
>

Whitetails spend quite a bit of time (about 8-9 months) following their mother
before striking out on their own. They communicate both vocally and with body
language. If mama signals danger and takes off running the young deer take off
after her. Whitetails have not always lived in suburbia, but by accounts I've 
read seem to be doing quite well there now. Call it adaptation, I suppose, but
if every deer had to learn that a particular threat (e.g. wolf, cougar) was 
dangerous by direct personal experience, I wouldn't expect populations to have
increased. I'm not claiming they have classrooms where some wise old doe
lectures and the young take notes, but I do think they can learn by example. If
I may offer an analogy, have you had many dogs? In my (admittedly limited) 
experience, there's nothing like an old well trained dog, whether housepet or
hunting dog, to help train a young pup. 

Jeff Achenbach
achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com