From: hyatt@owlnet.rice.edu (David Waterman Hyatt)
Subject: Re: SRII PhysAds v. ANDRE
Organization: Rice University
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 08:02:47 GMT

In article <1k7tteINN4q2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> at731@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Troy L. Nothnagel) writes:
>
>In a previous article, Chris Freisenbruch (read ANDRE) says:
>
>>OK, kids.  Here he is.  The one, the only:  ANDRE THE ASS-KICKING TROLL.
>>I am the player of said troll, and I must apologize for any mistakes that
>>my GM, Dave Hyatt has made in posting my character, as he did not have all
>>my stats with him. ANDRE has a BODY of 15, a QUICKNESS of 9, a STRENGTH of
>>14, a CHARISMA of 5, an INTELLIGENCE of 5, and a WILLPOWER of 4.  Only the
>>quickness and strength have not been raised with karma. His EDGED WEAPONS
>
>(That's a lot of karma, as you use the ratings including cyberware when
>determining karma cost)

WRONG.  Get your facts straight.  It states explicitly in SRII and SRI that you
look at the natural rating, WITHOUT cyberware, when raising an ability.

>
>>skill is 7, not 9 (I had added two dice from a level 2 Synthacardium--but
>>my GM ruled it out), and he does a 16D with his combat axe.  His hugeness
>>derives from the following Cyberware and Bioware:  Titanium Bone Lacing,
>>a Smartlink in his right hand, and Wired Reflexes (level 2).  On Order is
>>a Chemical Analyzer in his tongue.  There goes all but .05 of his essence.
>>A Cerebral Booster (level 2), a Damage Compensator (level 4), Enhanced
>>Articulation, Muscle Augmentation (level 4), a Pathogenic Defense (level 6),
>>a Suprathyroid, a Synthacardium (level 2), and Tailored Pheromones (level 2).
>
>Okay, so your GM lets you rape ShadowTech at will during character
>generation? 

Nobody said he was a starting character.  He's a year old.  Get a clue.
The Shadowtech technology was introduced into my campaign world gradually.
It's not all easy to get.  He's been around the block.  Nobody said
he could rape Shadowtech at will.

Pay attention.

>>He ain't got much BODY left, either.  His REACTION is 13, and he gets 3d6
>>initiative dice--a max of 31 on initiative.  With his EDGED WEAPONS skill of 7
>>and a combat pool of 8, he gets fifteen dice.  It's all pretty simple.  ANDRE
>>has plastered high level adepts, elementals, trolls, werewolves, and vampires
>>with some regularity.  In fact, in sample combats with force 15 fire
>>elementals, ANDRE has won 2 out of 3 times, whether he has attacked or

And before some picky rules guru attempts to hop on Andre for using 15 dice,
the fifteenth die comes from Enhanced Articulation.  7 from skill, 7 from Combat
Pool, 1 from Enhanced Articulation.

>
>Using your skill of 4?  (That IS your Willpower, after all.  When
>attacking spirits, that's all you get.)  And gee, says here (p.142) that
>you can't even use combat pool dice.  It's first action would be (at the
>latest) 41.  It attacks using 15 dice, you get 4.  Good luck.

Yes, using his skill of 4.  It's possible.  Check it out.  A Force 15 
Elemental while manifest has a Combat Skill equal to his Reaction.  I don't
have Stats memorized offhand for given Elementals, but let's look at this.
A Force 15 Elemental will attack Andre with (15 +- some modifier for
Physical Reaction dice) + his Threat Rating, which admittedly allows the skill
of the Elemental to vary widely.  Let's give him a Threat Rating of, oh, let's
try 5 for starters.  So Andre has 4 dice and a +3 reach for a Target Number
of 2.  The Elemental has around 20 dice at a target number of 6.  So Andre is virtually
guaranteed to get 4 successes.  The Elemental will statistically probably
get only 3.  Wham.  Andre hits.  Deadly wound.  16D.  Elemental has no armor. 
Say goodbye to Elemental.  It can be done.  Now these were just sample combats,
and it does depend on what Threat Rating you apply to the Elemental.  A variation
would be to give the Elemental a Combat Pool, in which case it would get about 30 dice
in a given attack, and then might get 5 successes to Andre's 4.  Even then,
if the Elemental doesn't roll well, Andre can kill it.

So pay attention.  It can be done.  It has been done.  Just because he's
got a low Willpower doesn't mean he isn't capable of pulling this off.

And for God's sake, get your Reaction total right.  You are using the spirit's Astral
Reaction.  Andre can't fight the damn thing astrally, so why are you assuming
that the spirit is astral?  The spirit's manifest Reaction is equal to its
Physical Reaction (15 +- some modifier) + 10 for being manifest + 1d6.
Statistically somewhere around 25 to 35, depending on the physical Reaction.
Andre might not go as fast, but that doesn't matter.  He can counterattack.
That's what matters.

>
>"Realistically adjust your physical adept"? <ahem>  Oh, and did I
>mention that when Andre DOES take damage, a target number of 12 is
>needed to cast a TREAT on him, and a 14 for a HEAL?  Good luck with
>that.  (And btw- cyberware that increases body doesn't help when it
>comes to reducing healing time.  Good luck with that, too.)

Yeah, but it's pretty hard to hurt him without resorting to Mana spells.
Yes, it would take him time to heal from that.  A price he has to pay.
But believe me, he'll heal.

Sorry, just had to climb back up onto my soapbox here for a moment.

That's all from my end.

Dave (hyatt@owlnet.rice.edu)

----------------------------------------
Andre, did you want to say anything?
----------------------------------------

	I assume that I am addressing the same person who posted the adept in the first
place.  Yes, realistically adjust your character.  If anyone has taken liberties with the
system, it has been you (or haven't you read any of the other posts?).  I am well aware of the 
penalties imposed by my cyberware.  The main problem you will have is actually causing significant
damage, four blocks of which I will ignore as I continue to turn you into so much sausage.  Fifteen
Body dice and a karma pool do help in resisting damage.  The GM has reiterated my weakness to MANA
spells, which I touched on in my post (a portion you apparently ignored when recopying my post in
yours).  
	Andre can be taken down. He is not a God, or invulnerable by any stretch of the 
imagination.  I understand his vulnerabilities and do my best to keep him alive.  On a run, 
I have a Grade 1 Initiate Wolf Shaman to assist in shielding me from other mages.  I'm not so 
stupid as to walk into a consortium of high-level mages and thumb my nose at the lot of them.
I understand the magic system well enough to make informed, intelligent decisions. Andre is
not a stupid Troll.  He can figure odds pretty well and has decided to take Ditka by 21 over
your adept (minus da Bears, too).

					Chris Freisenbruch

P.S.  These are the first posts I have made on the net, and I can separate my life from
Shadowrun without much difficulty.



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