HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: johnston@fys.ruu.nl (Helen Johnston)
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Organization: Physics Department, University of Utrecht, The Netherlands
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 09:34:02 GMT

In article <BxM7Hs.F6B@javelin.sim.es.com> biesel@javelin.sim.es.com (Heiner Biesel) writes:
>slarsen@berlin.helios.nd.edu (susan larsen) writes:
>
>>I read that the problem of body odor was an invention of 20th century 
>>advertising.  Until this century, most folks did not give much thought 
>>to pit odors.  Personal hygiene companies, in an attempt to build a 
>>market for their deodorant products, used the fear of folks that they 
>>might smell and be offensive to the masses in their advertising.  
>
>This would appear to qualify for an urban-myth-in-the-making. In fact,
>from earliest recorded history onward there are numerous references to
>unpleasant smells, and the various attempts to cover them up. 
>
Yes, but there are also references to people actually appreciating body
odour; like the story of Napoleon sending Josephine a letter while he
was on one of his campaigns saying "Don't wash! I'm coming home". 

>                                                               In the
> absence of modern plumbing, most people, including the rich, were not
> able to bathe often. Only the rich were able to resort to perfume to
> partially remedy this situation, which is why fragrances were an
> important and expensive item of commerce from earliest times.

Much of the use of perfumes in courts of centuries past was probably
due at least as much to the absence of sewage systems as to the absence
of bathing (though certainly, bathing only a few times a year can't
have helped!). Carolly Erickson, in her biography of Marie Antoinette,
reports the story of an old,blind woman being shown around Versailles
where she had worked as a servant many years ago, before the
Revolution.  A sewage pipe had burst in one of the courtyards, spilling
a large puddle of raw sewage. As her guide took her past the puddle,
she suddenly exclaimed "That was it! That was what Versailles smelled
like!"

-- 
Helen Johnston       | Astronomye is an harde thynge and yvel forto knowe.
johnston@fys.ruu.nl  |      -- William Langland, Piers the Plowman
From: mjo@slee01.srl.ford.com (Mike O'Connor)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
Subject: Re: You guys gotta...
Date: 9 Nov 1992 21:10:46 GMT
Organization: Not an official spokesperson for Ford Motor Co.
Reply-To: "Mike O'Connor" <mjo@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slee01.srl.ford.com

In article <1dhlubINNkjh@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
cf542@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Julio Richard Laredo) writes:

:it is an article about the million dollar a year Italian runway
:model Carla Bruni.  The opening photo, low-shot showing legs 
:that go on nearly forever, is more than worth the $3.00 price.

Isn't she going out with Eric Clapton or somesuch?  Another supermodel
taken by a musician?

						...Mike

--
 Michael J. O'Connor           |  Internet:  mjo@FMSRL7.SRL.FORD.COM
 Ford Motor Company, OPEO      |  UUCP:      ...!{backbone}!fmsrl7!mjo
 20000 Rotunda, Bldg. 1-3001   |  Phone:     +1 (313) 248-1260
 Dearborn, MI  48121           |  Fax:       +1 (313) 323-6277
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: krb@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Kevin Barnes)
Subject: Re: Who the hell is Elle MacPherson?
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 03:14:30 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard NARC Atlanta
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.3 PL5


Yea she's the best, I see her every morning at 3am selling a stair step,
she's a brain dead BIMBO!





My own thoughts all disclaimers apply per aba rule 2.4.u812

Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: Gandalf@cs.sun.ac.za (Gandalf)
Subject: Cindy.nude?
Summary: Request: THE pics
Organization: The mirrors in my mind tell me that I'm disorganized...
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 13:51:44 GMT

Could someone please mail me some of the above mentioned pics?
I've never seen a really nude pic of Cindy C.
Thanx
Gandalf 
+------------------------ UNIVERSITY OF STELLENBOSCH ------------------------+
|       Gandalf  -  PO Box 6193  -  Welgemoed  -  7538  -  South-Africa      |
|                        INTERNET: Gandalf@cs.sun.ac.za                      |
+------------------------ Only AMIGA makes it possible! ---------------------+
From: egilmour@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
Subject: Re:  Supermodels contribute to spiralling low self-esteem?
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:25:50 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

cor@bigwpi.WPI.EDU writes:
>Even if you are feeling good about yourself, some asshole can come
>along and start the downward spiral of self-esteem.

Right!  I've seen this a lot; a girl is in the campus pub or whatever
having a good time, and then for no reason other than cruelty some 
frat boy or other low life calls her a fat bitch (even though
she is not unattractive at all), and the
next thing you know she is in the bathroom crying and contemplating
becoming an anorexic or bulimic.

>It's not the supermodels themselves that can contribute to this,
>but the way society lifts them up as a comparison standard.

I think the actions of these assholes who insult and hate women for being
"ugly" or whatever are definately affected by the posters, calendars, ads
etc. that are directed towards male audiences.  But which came first -
the insensitive asshole or the swimsuit calendar?
From: cf542@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Julio Richard Laredo)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
Subject: You guys gotta...
Date: 8 Nov 1992 00:10:51 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


check out the newest (November, 1992) issue of VANITY FAIR.  In
it is an article about the million dollar a year Italian runway
model Carla Bruni.  The opening photo, low-shot showing legs 
that go on nearly forever, is more than worth the $3.00 price.

-- 
Have straitjacket, might travel.

Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
From: lynch@ils.nwu.edu (Richard Lynch)
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 17:18:24 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.190743.8606@dragon.acadiau.ca> 891666t@dragon.acadiau.ca (Trish Turliuk) writes:
>lynch@ils.nwu.edu (Richard Lynch) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Nov7.171259.13356@dragon.acadiau.ca> 891666t@dragon.acadiau.ca (Trish Turliuk) writes:
>>>aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich) writes:
>>>
>
>>{sarcasm on}
>>Oh, my, yes.  Almost as bad as those professional atheletes.  Horror, horror.
>>{sarcasm off}
>
>>They are adults!  They can make their own decisions without any hassle from
>>you or me, I'm sure.
>
>I'm an adult. Why can I not choose to live in a world absent of advertising?
>I am not able to make that choice without receding into a cave. 

So go hide in a cave, if it's that big a deal.  :-)

>I try so hard, but it is difficult to escape. I fast forward through tv 
>commercials (with a costly VCR), I tear labels off food items stored in my
>kitchen, I tear labels off my clothing and don't wear ADs, I listen to CBC
>(canadian public radio absent of commercials), I try not to look at    
>ostentatious billboards, I read ad-conscious or adless magazines.........
>
>but I still get bombarded.
>
>I'm a person, not a consumer.
>
>thoughts a little off topic by,

Seriously, though, what's the big deal.  Just ignore the ads.  If you're
mature enough and strong enough to care as much as you seem to, you ought to
be able to just ignore the ads without all that fuss.
-- 
"TANSTAAFL"     lynch@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: panlilio@acs.ucalgary.ca (Victor P. Panlilio)
Subject: Re: To Victor Panlilio
Summary: Eh, wot's this?
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 06:11:53 GMT
Expires: Mon, 30 Nov 1992 05:00:00 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta
Keywords: unsolicited praise
Followup-To: alt.supermodels

In article <1992Nov9.165351.9850@walter.bellcore.com> tld@cosmos.bellcore.com writes:

>Hi, Victor!
>
>Just wanted to say your postings/replies are the most refreshing
>and *intelligent* articles I've read *anywhere* on the net... You
>not only come back with extremely thoughtful replies to all the
>hype and hysteria, but you also have an incredible sense of
>humor.

Well, well, well...what have we here? Praise? Or sarcasm?  8^)

(looks around warily, searching for PC lurkers ready to pounce)

Ahem. Methinks you should read some more of my rambling before
you issue a summary judgment...I have been known to lapse into
utter senility at times....still, my sincere thanks for your most
gracious compliment....it's not everyday that I get *those*...

8^)

>Thanks, sir!  

Eh? What do you take me for, antediluvian? I'm *only* thirty!

(scratches head, wondering if he should be on prune juice...)

> The opinions expressed here are not claimed or supported by
> anyone.

I see.

Well, in that case, your pronouncement on my postings is not
worth diddly-squat, is it? Shucks, just when I thought I was
beginning to favorably impress *somebody* in this newsgroup!

(Not!)

;^)

Cheers to all who need cheering up (you know who you are)!

Victor 8^)

(been whistling Dixie up here in the snowy North lately)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: 9204474@cuslm.ca (MORIN PETER JOHN)
Subject: Elle Macpherson
Keywords: Babe,goddess,etc.
Organization: Centre d'Informatique, Centre universitaire Saint-Louis-Maillet
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:00:56 GMT

Hey Guys,
Elle is such a babe eh!
I met her once at a fasion show in Toronto,Canada.Sha was with Cindy 
Crawford and Christie Brinkley(Billy Joel eat your heart out!)
Anyways,I just had say that if I could mary the girl of my dreams it would 
be her.
Hey! have any of you guys seen the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit video,you see 
Elle in it and you actually see some breast shots.....get a hold of it if 
you havent already seen it before!!!

Peter Morin
University of Moncton,Education Department,New-Brunswick,Canada
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
From: barry@netcom.com (Kenn Barry)
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Organization: QQQCLC
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 05:04:01 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.150355.9849@rtf.bt.co.uk> fletcher@rtf.bt.co.uk (Catherine Fletcher) writes:
>stevenra@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Alex Stevens) writes:
>> "if women make half of what guys make, why
>> don't they all hire women, and cut salary costs in half???"
>
>Yes, of course that's what it is *saying*, but it is also *implying*
>something because it is asking a question and leaving the reader to think
>about the answer - which could be any of these:
>
>1.  The statistic about women's salaries is not correct.

	No need to go on, since the statistic is not, in fact, correct.

>By the way, anyone who has the slightest grasp of what sexism is and doesn't
>understand why an Elle calendar is offensive and harmful and a Chippendales
>calendar isn't probably has no aptitude for complex thought - therefore I
>am resorting to condescending insult rather than reasoned explanation.

	Funny, I was thinking the same thing about anyone who thinks
there _is_ a difference.

						Kayembee
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: cs161feu@sdcc10.ucsd.edu (Anthony Minkoff)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
Subject: Re:  Elle McPherson causes rape?  (not!)
Date: 7 Nov 92 17:18:55 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Nov4.205115.8628@ac.dal.ca> egilmour@ac.dal.ca writes:
>You do 
>possess Elle with your eyes when you look at her right?

No more so that I possess the Monal Lisa when I look at her.  Or
possess Charles Barkley when I look at a poster of him in action.

>Remember, rape is not a sex crime, it is a crime of violence.

Exactly.  And there is nothing violent about Elle's calendar; it is
done in very good taste.  So it has nothing to do with rape.

Tony
Xref: sparky alt.supermodels:1684 soc.women:19268 alt.feminism:4130 soc.men:19034
From: kytan@mantra.fia.dmg.ml.com (Kok-Yong Tan)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:59:40 GMT
	<1992Nov7.171259.13356@dragon.acadiau.ca>
	<1992Nov8.003821.27694@ils.nwu.edu>
	<1992Nov8.190743.8606@dragon.acadiau.ca>
Organization: Organised?  Here?  Hahahahahahahaha.....

In article <1992Nov8.190743.8606@dragon.acadiau.ca> 891666t@dragon.acadiau.ca (Trish Turliuk) writes:

>I'm an adult. Why can I not choose to live in a world absent of advertising?
>I am not able to make that choice without receding into a cave. 

Aha!!! But that, in itself, is a choice you can make. No one is stopping you
from receding/retreating into a cave:  You can live in the mainstream or live
in a cave.  Either way, you live (or exist, anyway) and you are free to move
from one to the other.

>I try so hard, but it is difficult to escape. I fast forward through tv 
>commercials (with a costly VCR), I tear labels off food items stored in my
>kitchen, I tear labels off my clothing and don't wear ADs, I listen to CBC
>(canadian public radio absent of commercials), I try not to look at    
>ostentatious billboards, I read ad-conscious or adless magazines.........

There!  You're making choices...quite a number of them, actually.

>but I still get bombarded.

>I'm a person, not a consumer.

>thoughts a little off topic by,

>TR.

Then ignore it!  TV's have "off" switches.  Sit in a lotus position and hum
mantras/tantras to drown out the ads.  All possibilities, no?  Sheesh.


--
===============================================================================
Kok-Yong Tan, 			  	| My words are my own: 
Fixed Income Analytics Group, 	  	| My bosses know naught.
Merrill Lynch,			  	| Wherever they're sown,
World Financial Center, North Tower, 	| Just I should be sought.
New York, NY 10281-1315.	  	|		- K. Y. Tan, 5 Feb 1992
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
InterNet: kytan@fia.dmg.ml.com (Merrill Lynch)
	  75046.256@compuserve.com (CompuServe)
===============================================================================
Xref: sparky alt.supermodels:1753 soc.women:19426 alt.feminism:4265 soc.men:19165
From: johnr@ee.uts.edu.au (John Reekie)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:22:33 GMT
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney
NNTP-Posting-Host: rossi.ee.uts.edu.au

riaedwards@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (AUDREY EDWARDS) writes:

>One things for certain, whilst I'm as confident as I want to be, I 
>certainly would not date a man with an Elle MacPherson calandar on his 
>wall! Now, a Paul Klee calandar is different (and for the culturally 
>unenlightened, he is not a member of the Chippendales!!!!)   

I do not have an Elle PacPherson calendar on my wall. I would
like to, but I do not, because it would upset my girlfriend. Does that make
me a Dateable Man or a Nondateable Man?

John
From: garcia@husc10.harvard.edu (Javier Garcia-Torres)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
Subject: Re: If She Only Had A Brain
Date: 11 Nov 92 02:52:19 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1dgiepINNrc2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cf542@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Julio Richard Laredo) writes:
>
>Elle came in first, and the Yalie, the rabbi, and the doctor
>came in last.

	Well, if she was a Yale graduate, what else would you expect?

P.S. I have so much SLACK that only flames from BOB himself would affect me.
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
From: bfh@cogito.b17d.ingr.com (Burgess Howell)
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Reply-To: bfh@cogito.b17d.ingr.com
Organization: "PIPS Documentation, Intergraph Corp, Huntsville AL"
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 04:07:04 GMT

In article <MDWSBZN@cc.swarthmore.edu>, auer@cs.swarthmore.edu (David S. Auer) writes:

|> I am not advocating censorship here, but rather that we work on the demand
|> side.  If we educate people to the ills of pornography and idolization of
|> beauty and make it less socially acceptable, we can diminish the problems
|> associated with the consumption of such pernicious literature.


(And I swore to myself I wasn't going to get involved in this thread...)

Sorry, Dave, but my bullshit meter pegged when I read this last
paragraph.  I'm not going to go into great detail about the fallacy of
the statement.  I'll just point up a couple of the more glaring problems
with your position:


1. Define pornography.  Now try to get 3 people to agree with you
without amending or appending to your definition.

2. Can you cite just exactly what the "ills of pornography" are?  Blue
balls?  Hot sex?  Hairy palms?  

3. Ditto for the "idolization of beauty?"  If you are going to fall back
a level and condemn idolization as a whole, I might be inclined to meet
you halfway.  Idolization is laziness.  "I can't be bothered to decide
for myself what I want to be, so I'll be just like
<idolized_object_here>."  But, frankly, I think you've got your work cut
out for you with the beauty thing.  I mean, it's pretty obvious from even
the most cursory overview of the artifacts gleaned from sites of human
habitation for, say, the past 40,000 years or so that beauty is a pretty
important concept for genus _homo_.

4. Define "pernicious literature."  (See #1 above)

The real problem you have here is that you compromise the objectivity of
your statements when you use qualitative arguments.  The notions of
idolization, beauty, pornography, and perniciousness are VERY
subjective.  I suspect that your concept of each is considerably
different than mine.

BTW, would you please enlighten me as to just what _are_ the problems
associated with consuming such "pernicious literature."

------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Burgess F. Howell                    | Excerpted from high school     |
|Intergraph Corporation               | science exam:                  |
|PIPS Documentation                   |                                |
|     bfh@cogito.b17d.ingr.com        | "Artificial insemination is    |
|or - bfh@b15.b15.ingr.com            | when the farmer does it to the |
|-------------------------------------| cow instead of the bull."      |
|     "Ex nihilo omnia fit"  -Me      |                                |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: panlilio@acs.ucalgary.ca (Victor P. Panlilio)
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Summary: Rallying the Clear Thinkers
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 92 16:59:49 GMT
Expires: Mon, 30 Nov 1992 05:00:00 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta
Keywords: sense
Followup-To: alt.supermodels

In article <lflbvlINNh6j@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (Dances with Drums) writes:

>In article  891666t@dragon.acadiau.ca (Trish Turliuk) writes:
>>The fact is we see *one-type* of women portrayed everywhere as the idealized
>>women and even this isn't a real type for she is subjected to hours of makeup

>	I had to take issue with this.  When was the last time you saw
>a car in a car add anywhere that was dented and/or scratched, paint
>top torn, etc etc etc...  The fact is when advertisers are selling somethink,
>they want to use 'perfect' models.  They don't want to show us anything
>necessarily realistic.  I don't find my car represented or reflected
>in the media any more than the average woman finds her body represented
>there.  Should I regard this is as some horrible plot directed at me,
>or does it make more sense to realize that this is 'madison avenue' and
>should be taken as ignorable.  

Heh. First, Catwoman. Now, '-wat-' weighs in with more good
sense. Could it be possible that some people have developed
antibodies to the PC virus already? It is to be hoped for...

Concentrate...focus your mind...feel the power within....

Direct your positive energies towards the PC-plotmongers!

*chuckle*

Victor 8^)
(who, as usual, didn't get enough sleep last night but feels good
anyway -- gonna see *lotsa* models at a casting call on Sunday)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: tld@moon.base.bellcore.com (Terry Davidson)
Subject:  To Victor Panlilio
Followup-To: All the hype and PC hysteria...
Reply-To: tld@cosmos.bellcore.com
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 16:53:51 GMT

Hi, Victor!

Just wanted to say your postings/replies are the most refreshing
and *intelligent* articles I've read *anywhere* on the net... You
not only come back with extremely thoughtful replies to all the
hype and hysteria, but you also have an incredible sense of
humor.

Thanks, sir!  

-- 
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*     The opinions expressed here are not claimed or supported by anyone.     *
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
* If you don't know where you're coming from, any direction is forward -Jensen
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Terry Davidson - tld@cosmos.bellcore.com / tld@cosmos.bae.bellcore.com      *
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: gds@york.cs.ucla.edu (Greg Skinner)
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Originator: gds@york.cs.ucla.edu
Reply-To: gds@cs.ucla.edu (Greg Skinner)
Organization: in your face!
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 18:55:32 GMT

Catherine Fletcher <fletcher@rtf.bt.co.uk> wrote:
>   By the way, anyone who has the slightest grasp of what sexism is and
>   doesn't understand why an Elle calendar is offensive and harmful and
>   a Chippendales calendar isn't probably has no aptitude for complex
>   thought - therefore I am resorting to condescending insult rather
>   than reasoned explanation.

You're absolutely right, Catherine, and those men who abuse their
bodies by poor weight training programs, or take steroids, or have
plastic surgery don't really exist ... they're just made up stories
you read about in the Enquirer, right?  Even if they did exist,
they're just MEN, right?  I mean, they are in control anyway, right??
At worst, they're only individually oppressed, not societally
oppressed, but that's no big deal, RIGHT????
Xref: sparky alt.supermodels:1513 soc.women:18845 alt.feminism:3716 soc.men:18677
From: lib@cbnews.cb.att.com (Lib)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:53:17 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Nov5.170627.20310@cs.nott.ac.uk> rji@trellis.cs.nott.ac.uk (Rob Ingram) writes:
>
>The problem is that most of the images we see in advertising are of
>women who are really too thin for their height but this is portrayed
>as an ideal. This is difficult to achieve for most women and so this
>leads to obsessive behavior and eating disorders.

Odd. I thought that the reason all the models were too slim for their
height was that such people photograph better, not that Madison
Avenue wants to portray it as an ideal. I don't understand why they
would want to do that. It's no doubt true women see this as an ideal
an try to emulate it just like men try to emulate the Marlboro man
and assorted types who drink beer.
Xref: sparky alt.supermodels:1569 soc.women:19006 alt.feminism:3878 soc.men:18817