Newsgroups: soc.culture.vietnamese
Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:43:46 PST
              USENET." <VIETNET@USCVM.BITNET>
From:         Thai Trinh <thai@COMBINET.COM>
Subject:      Re: Go back to VN to help rebuilding VN

        Ne\ ma^'y em nho?
   Ma^'y em ca\ng nga\y ca\ng -di la.c -de^\ ro^\i -do'. Mo+'i -da^\u la\
no'i chuye^.n vie^.c co' ne^n giu'p -do+~ Vie^.t Nam hay kho^ng ba^y gio+\
la.i quay qua no'i chuye^.n ve^\ ca'ch chu+?o+i nhau tre^n Net. Anh tha^'y
ma^'y em -da~ la.c va\o me^ ho^\n tra^.n cu~a bo.n Vie^.t co^.ng ro^\i -do'
Ve^\ vie^.c "rebuilding Vie^.t Nam" anh tha^'y -do' la\ tra'ch nhie^.m cu~a
mo^~i ngu+o+\i Vie^.t Nam vi\ " Quo^'c gia hu+ng vong, tha^'t phu huu+?
tra'ch". Tuy nhie^n vie^.c tru+o+'c tie^n pha?i la\m la\ la^.t -do^? che^'
-do^. -do^.c ta\i ngu xua^?n cu~a bo.n co^.ng sa~n -di -da~ vi\ nhu+ va^.y
thi\ da^n Vie^.t Nam mo+'i co' the^? hu+o+?ng -du+o+.c nhu+~ng tha\nh qu~a
do chi'nh mi\nh la\m ra, chu+' ne^'u kho^ng thi\ du\ cho Vie^.t Nam mi\nh co'
gia\u ca'ch ma^'y -di nu~u+ thi\ chi? co' bo.n tham nhu?ng, ta\n a'c co^.ng
sa~n hu+o+~ng tho^i. Hie^.n nay ca'c thanh nie^n cu~a ca'c quo^'c gia nhu+
-Da.i Ha\n , -Da\i Loan..v.v -dang -da^'u tranh cho the^? che^' TU+. DO,
DA^N CHU? cho quo^'c gia cu~a ho. ma(.c da^\u ca'c nu+o+'c na\y cu?ng kha'
co' tie^\n la\ ta.i vi\ chi? co' mo^.t thie^?u so^' ca^\m quye^\n -du+o+.c
hu+o+?ng su+. gia\u co' na\y tho^i. vi\ va^.y anh khuye^n ca'c em la\ pha?i
giu'p cho da^n Vie^.t Nam chu+' kho^ng pha?i la\ giu'p cho bo.n co^.ng sa~n
Vie^.t Nam. Hy vo.ng ra(\ng ca'c em se~ ho.c -du+o+.c ba\i ho.c tu+\ Thie^n
An Mo^n -de^? tha\nh co^ng chu+' kho^ng tha^'t ba.i nhu+ thanh nie^n Trung
Hoa.
            Hung Nguyen.
P.S: Ca'c em du+\ng no'i ra(\ng ca'c em kho^ng the\m quan ta^m -de^'n chi'nh
     tri., anh ra^'t buo^\n khi nghe nhu+ va^.y vi\ ne^'u ca'c em nghi?
     ra(\ng chi'nh tri. la\ lu\u+ do^'i thi\ Vie^.t Nam se~ kho^ng bao gio+\
     ngo'c -da^\u le^n -du+o+.c.Bo+?i vi\ muo^'n da^n gia\u thi\ chi'nh
     quye^\n pha?i DO DA^N ,BO+?I DA^N, va\ VI\ DA^N.








>>From: tin@smsc.sony.com (Le Tin)
>>
>>  Everytime this subject comes up, I see a lot of people come out flaming
>>anyone who disagrees with them.  Lots of heat, but very little substance.
>
>I think we mentioned a lot of substances:
>     -Democracy
>     -Human right
>     -Corruption
>     -Prostitution
>     -Crimes against the people
>     -Freedom of speech
>     -Freedom of religion
>Care to pick one ?

  Mentioning a subject does not constitute a discussion of it.  An example
is your message.  You can claim to mentioned all of these things, but then
go on to insult me.  Is that a discussion?

  No, I don't think so.

>>All kinds of name callings and personal attacks on those who dare mention
>>that they want to help Vietnam.  After all, anyone can destroy and tear
>>down something.  It is much harder to work on something positive, to build
>>something good.
>
>I am surprised at the name calling if any. But, remember the profanity ? ;-)
>No, not anyone can destroy. Only the communists are capable of that, destroying
>the whole nation, generation, human lives, morals ...

  Would you care to tell the Jews who survived WWII of that?  Or the Indians
in South America suffering from the extreme right wingers?  Whole race/culture
destroyed, villages wiped out...  ANYONE is capable of these things.  The
sad, ugly truth is that HUMANS are capable of these things.  Ideologies
are used as excuses to justify terrible things.

>This is a free country, no one can stop or destroy anyone ;-).
           ^^^^          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  We discussed this before.  "Freedom" does not give you the right to
infringe on another person's life.  All it does is give you certain
privileges.  It can, and will be taken away if you violate the rules
that society set.  Read the US Constitution and Declaration of Independence
sometime and see what it really says.

  Your interpretation of "free" implies that there is no law.  This is
incorrect.  If you wish, send me private email and I will be happy to
explain.

>>  From all the name callings and rhetorics, I see two common themes from
>>those who opposed helping Vietnam.  Let me bring it out on the table and
>>we can try to talk in a sensible and logical way without the name callings.
>>
>>  The first theme from people such as Hung Ho, Kim Nguyen, Son, Cuong Bui
>>and so on is:
>>
>>       1. They were fooled, duped, tricked and so on by the communists.
>>
>>               a. Other people have also been fooled, duped, tricked by
>>               the communists.
>>
>>               b. They are "older" and "know" more, or have more "experience"
>>               than YOU (whoever you are).  This is an argument that ALL
>>               traditional Vietnamese folks use (i.e. they are claiming that
>>               older equates to being "wiser" -- I will leave a discussion of
>>               this point for later).
>>
>>               Conclusion: They think that everyone else would also get
tricked
>>               by the communists.  Therefore, don't even TRY.  You should give
>>               up now because they have already given up (they are NOT going
>>               to try again, same as giving up).
>
>No, we just tell the truth as it was/is. I guess we learned. Let's talk about
>a simple example, perhaps the gifted, talented young ones can share:

  "truth" ?  Whose truth?  The truth according to Cuong Bui?  Let us
examine this "truth."

        . you were fooled by the communists.
        . you express bitterness, anger and disappointment in being fooled.
        . you gave up trying.
        . you want everyone else who want to try to also give up.

  Do you agree with these statements so far?


>         Fire is hot, it burns your finger.
>         The old man tell it to the kids: don't play with fire.
>         The kids say: you old man "chicken died" claiming to be "wiser",
>                       move over, don't stand in our way.

  This is an overly simplistic example.  You will find very few people
who disagree with this.  Try something more complex and relevant to the
discussion.

>To that, I say, go ahead.
>The communists has been using this tactic: tell the youngs that their older
>generation, their father/brother generation is useless, worthless, stupid,
>"cu+'ng dda^`u cu+'ng co^?" (hard nose , hard head, hard neck ;-))
>They've done that with Cha'u ngoan ba'c Ho^`. Do you know what it is ?
>They've done that with Thanh nie^n xung phong. Do you know what that is ?

  So you are saying that you swallowed their story once before (remember,
you said you were fooled) and you think _EVERYONE_ else will be too.  Is
that what you are saying?

>Our people, as you called "traditional Vietnamese folks", always treat
>with respect the elders, not because of age I am sure.
>
>   Nha^n , Nghi~a , Le^~ , Tri' , Ti'n
>I am sure you know the meaning of those terms.

Yes, Ti'n is my name.  What are you trying to say?  More implicit insults?
If you want to say that I am disrespectful to my elders, than please have
the courtesy to say it to me.  Don't beat around the bush.

  I respect my elders.  But respecting my elders does not mean I have to
stop thinking.  It does not mean I do everything my elders tell me blindly.
Wasn't that your problem?  You blindly believed what the communists told
you and you were fooled.  WHY are you now telling me to blindly believe
everything my elders tell me?

  Respect and courtesy are two different things.  I can be courteous to
you, but that does not mean I respect you.

  If you claim to be my elder and want my respect, you will have to earn
it.  Act the age you claimed to be.  Treat me with the same respect you
want.  Don't insult my intelligence.  An elder who abused his privileges
and act insulting will not have the respect of anyone.  I will treat such
an elder with courtesy as I am taught, but I do not have to respect him.

  As for yours and others' insistence that those of us who want to help
should leave immediately and go back to Viet Nam.  We will.  But we are
not going to tell you when.  It is none of your business.  There are much
work to be done, both here (outside of Viet Nam) and inside the country.
There are many ways to help without having to physically be there.  But
then you and others know that.

  Those of you who prefer to destroy instead of rebuild... well, I really
do not know what to say.  I am sorry that you have given up and accepted
defeat so easily.  My condolences.

Regards,
Tin Le
--
.           ---------------------------------
. Tin Le             | Internet: tin@smsc.Sony.COM
. Sony Microsystems  | comp.binaries.ms-windows Moderator
. (408) 944-4157 (W) | Submissions to cbmsw@smsc.sony.com