From: tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav)
Subject: Re: Libertarianism and Government
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 17:52:35 GMT

In article <46349@dime.cs.umass.edu> yodaiken@chelm.cs.umass.edu (victor yodaiken) writes:
>
>I don't want to offend anyone here, but rather than exercising one's
>imagination, it is possible to go to a library and read a book or two.
>Murray Bookchin has published quite a bit, "Remaking Society"

 Library has many more books/authors than Bookchin et al.
 One reads to know/learn/self examine what is truth and what is
 right. Reading the paragraph from Kropotkin you post, I have decided to
 never read Bookchin, Kropotkin and others you mention.

 Humans have mind. And the potential to think. There comes a stage
 when one gets disgusted of debunking, disproving nonsense. Take an
 analogy. If a recipe book suggests you to cook ill tasting bullshit
 first time - may be you ignorantly try it. Taste the junk. Throw it.
 You read the next recipe. Try it. Bullshit again. Most humans, including
 me, would then throw the book this time. And never ever try that author
 for recipes again. Similar thing happens for the thought recipes for
 human mind.

 You know, Bookchin etc. etc. can be wrong. They don't have to be right.

>Here's Kropotkin for those who believe that going into a public
>library might damage the free market:
>	Laws on property are not made to guarantee either to the individual
>	or to societty the enjoyment of the produce of their own labor. On
>	the contrary, they are made to rob the producer of a part of what he
>	has created, and to secure to certain other people that portion of
>	the produce which they have stolen either from the producer or from
>	society as a whole. When, for example, the law establishes Mr.
>	So-and-So's right to a house, it is not establishing his right to a
>	cottage he has built for himself, or to a house he has erected with
>	the help of some of his friends. In that case no one would have
>	disputed his right. On the contrary, the law is establishing his
>	right to a house which is not the product of his labor; first of all
>	because he has had it built for him by others to whom he has not
>	paid the full value of their work, and next because the house
>	represents a social value which he could not have produced for
>	himself., ... The same house built in the middle of 

[1] Fellow humans that the individual does not meet are as much his (her)
    friends as one that he meets. So his yet unmet friends helped him 
    build it. And he builds different things for them as a friend.
[2] He pays for the full value. Why does the author claim that the full value
    has not been paid? 
[3] What creates social value? 
    What is value? What is society?

>	as we know, that value arises from the labor of something like 50
>	generations of men who have built the town, beautified it, supplied
>	it with water and gas, fine promenades, colleges, theatres, shops,
>	railways and roads leading in all directions. Thus, by recognizing
>	the right of Mr. So-and-So to a particular house in Paris,London, or
>-- 
>yodaiken@chelm.cs.umass.edu
>

[1] Take each generation's average non overlapping life time as 25 years.
    That is each generation at an average age of 25 years produces the next
    generation. Then 50 generation equals 750 years. This is 1992. So, the
    author is asserting that today's Paris/New York was built since 1250 AD.
    Does the author know about the World Wars, the Columbus (an individual)
    trip, the history of roads/railways/gas..... Much that the author lists
    out did not exist 10 generations ago, leave aside 50.
[2] Does the author know what first thinkers like Socrates, Galileo, 
    Pasteur went through? And that even today, the future industries begin
    against all odds - in garage, while every body tells the individual how
    impractical/idealistic/stupid he/she is.
[3] Where do ideas come from? 
[4] Who finds out what to work on?

T.Y.
----
tyadav@athena.mit.edu
Newsgroups: sci.econ