From: jonke@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Stephen Jonke)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video
Subject: I rented a NEO-GEO (REPOST)
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:46:30 GMT
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center

In article <1992Jul23.031948.24103@highlite.uucp>, mike@highlite.uucp (Mike Wiik) writes:
> 
> 
> Oh please - I like your post but please email an ascii copy - or
> a repost (if others ask)....
> 

Ok, ok, here's the repost.  Hopefully without any wierd R's U's and other
oddities!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I WAS A NEO-GEO RENTER
(or how I learned to stop worrying and like the system.)

   All this NEO-GEO "is it worth it?" hoopla inspired me to rent the 
system and a few games this weekend.  These are my impressions.  Oh 
man, is this ever long!

SYSTEMS I OWN/GAMES I'VE LIKED/DISLIKED
   I own a Sega Genesis and an Atari Lynx portable.  Some games that 
I've liked and disliked (in no particular order and certainly not all 
inclusive) are:

Genesis:
   Liked: Sonic the Hedgehog, Road Rash, Desert Strike, Thunder Force 
3, PGA Tour Golf, Klax, Super Monaco GP, NHL Hockey, Toe Jam & 
Earl.
   Disliked: Thunder Force 2, Joe Montana Football 2, John Madden 
Football (original and '92), Revenge of Shinobi, Phantasy Star 3, (that 
older Sega adventure game -- whatever the name)

Lynx:
   Liked: Rampart, Robotron, Chip's Challenge, Xenophobe, Warbirds, 
Ishido, Qix, APB
   Disliked: Stun Runner, Zarlor Mercenary

WHAT I RENTED

   The NEO-GEO system, including two standard arcade style joystick 
controllers with 4 fire buttons each, RF cable, Audio/Video cable
   Two games -- Football Frenzy and NAM-1975.
   I rented all this stuff for two days (I'd have gotten it longer, but I'm 
not that rich!)  The total cost was about $31 from Video Wizard.  Their 
address and phone number are:

Video Wizard
110 West Padonia Road
Timonium, MD 21093
USA
Tel: (410)666-5511

I give this info strictly for informative purposes -- I don't have any 
relation to them other then that I have a rental membership 
(obviously!)  They also rent the Super Nintendo system and laser discs 
(they have a very good selection), so run out and buy yourself a LD 
player.

TECHNICAL ISSUES

   I don't really know all the gory details of the system, but I can tell 
you what I see.  The graphic and color resolution of the N.G. is much, 
much higher then the Genesis and what I've seen on Super Nintendo 
(one would hope so for the price).  Quite impressive on a 27" TV.  In 
addition, the machine is clearly very fast, because even with the higher 
resolution graphics and color, the games manage very smooth 
animation and lots of it, without a glitch.
   The Sound capability of the N.G. is very impressive -- best digitized 
voices I've heard by far -- noise free and very "full" sounding.  
Background music is very good (though I'm not a fan of B.G. music.)  
Provided with the rental system (and I presume included if you buy the 
system) is an audio/video cable.  Like the Genesis audio/video cable, 
you only get monophonic sound if you use it for the audio.  In order to 
get stereo sound, you must take the sound from the headphone jack.  
This works, but is a little less convenient and seems like a cheap thing 
to do considering the cost of the system.  The picture quality with the 
a/v cable is excellent.  I did not try the RF cable, but it's safe to assume 
that the picture will be much less impressive when using it.
   The joysticks that come with the system are excellent.  I've got a 
Sega "Arcade PowerStick", but these are vastly superior to it.  The 
Sega joystick has always felt very vague to me and never seems to go 
back to center in the same place, whereas the N.G. joysticks have 
excellent feedback (you can "feel" what position the stick is in), are 
very responsive and center instantly and in the same spot.  However, I 
found the placement of the fire buttons imperfect -- it seems like you 
have to twist your right hand slight to keep a finger on each button.  
It's comfortable, however, if you use your thumb for the leftmost button 
(button A) -- this takes a bit of getting use to though.  I prefer the 
placement of the buttons on the arcade N.G. machines.  Also, these 
sticks could use a little more weight to help keep them stationary, but 
all in all these are the best digital controllers on the consumer market.  
Considering the cost of Sega's A.P.S's ($40 each), and the superiority of 
these joysticks, they alone are at least $100 to $150 of the cost of the 
system (for both).  That still leaves $500+ more to explain, though!
   The NEO-GEO supports "memory cards" for storing the progress of 
games.  I can't really comment too much on this, since the rental 
system didn't include one, nor did it include the instruction manual for 
the system.  However, from the instructions in the games it appears 
that you can store your progress in ANY N.G. game on one of these 
cards.  This is a neat idea, because it means that every game for the 
N.G. will support "battery backup" via these cards.  With Genesis and 
SNES, the vast majority of games don't support battery backup, 
because it means an additional expense that will drive the cost of the 
cartridge up.  On the down side,  for the two game I rented at least, you 
can only store the progress of one game on a given memory card.  Of 
course you can buy more then one card, but I presume these things are 
not a dime a dozen (anyone know how much they cost?)  Interestingly, 
if you have a game stored on a memory card, you can take the card to 
the arcade and continue your game on one of those machines (although 
why you'd want to do this, I don't know!  You could, however, buy a 
memory card even if you don't own a N.G. system for use in the arcade 
machines, which is kind of neat.)  Also, there something mentioned 
about using a memory card for a "network."  I don't know what this 
means, but if it means you can link more then one NEO-GEO together, 
for multiscreen multiplayer games, that would be interesting feature -- 
does anyone know???
   One other odd tidbit and that will be it for the technical stuff (really!)  
For some reason SNK did not put a power light on the console.  This 
means that if you've accidentally left the system on and turned the TV 
off, you won't be able to tell.  I don't know what could happen if the 
system is left on for a very long time, but at a minimum it would be a 
waste of electricity.  Seems like an odd thing to leave out on a high end 
video game system!

NAM-1975

   Ah, now into the important stuff, the games I rented.  Never having 
played Cadash, I can't say with certainty, but from the little I've seen 
of it, I'd say that NAM-1975 is a combination of Cadash and 
Terminator 2 type games.  It is a 2 player cooperative game.  NAM 
uses a "buy in" approach to 2 player play, that is, the second player can 
start at any time.  Both players have a limited number of continues, 
but when playing by yourself you can use all the continues of both 
players.  Basically, you have a character at the bottom of the screen 
which you move left and right with the joystick.  You fight enemies 
which are in front of you (in a pseudo 3D sense -- your character looks 
in to the screen and you see his back.)
   When pressing the C button while moving, you run.  By pressing C 
and holding the joystick down and to the left or down and to the right, 
you do a roll maneuver which while you are rolling you can't be hit by 
enemy fire.  However, you don't move as fast as when running and 
when you get back up you can't fire immediately.  The A button is used 
to fire your machine gun, although if you get a new weapon (there are 
3 types of these) it is then controlled by the A button (it has a limited 
number of shots before reverting to machine gun again.)  The B button 
is used to throw grenades which you have a limited supply (there are 
special types of grenades you can get as well.)  By shooting certain 
things (including some things in the background) supplies of grenades, 
new weapons, bonus points, etc. fall to the ground which you can pick 
up.
   On the screen there is a cross hair which is used to aim your 
weapons.  When firing, if you move the joystick your character stays 
stationary while the crosshair moves (movement is in all eight 
directions, so you need to aim up and down as well as left and right).  
In addition, when moving your character left or right, the crosshair 
moves slightly faster in the same direction as you do -- this may sound 
odd, but in practice it does make sense.  Control of this is a bit weird at 
first, but once you get the hang of it, it works well.
   The enemies you fight are widely varied.  There are enemy soldiers of 
different types that have different weapons (guns, grenades, flame 
throwers), helicopters (several types), bombers, tanks, supply trucks, 
boats, paratroopers (and their drop planes), poison gas, etc. and as you 
would expect in a game like this (and by looking at the cover) lots of 
"big" (I refuse to use that OTHER "B" word!) enemies that are 
generally pretty amusing.  These fights are somewhat more difficult 
then the rest of the game, but not ridiculously so and my personal 
opinion is that this is a good thing.  In most action type games, the 
main part of the game is relatively easy and then you get to these "big" 
fights and die repeatedly -- I find that infuriating, especially since in 
most games beating these enemies is primarily a matter of asking 
somebody else what the secret is.  If you don't know the secret you 
can't defeat it.)  In NAM these battles add variety to the game instead 
of bogging it down.
   There are 6 "areas" in which to do battle and I'd say that this is no 
longer then what you would find in the typical Genesis game.  What 
you are getting for your money is production values and arcade quality 
game responsiveness.  Believe me, NAM has production values.  The 
animation is very smooth and fast with zero slowdown and the sound is 
excellent and there's lots of both giving a very hectic feel to the game 
(the sounds that your character makes when hit with gun fire sound 
like a combination of extreme pain and vomiting -- very realistic, 
though not necessarily pleasant!)  When you lose a life, incidentally, 
you do NOT have to restart the level you are on -- the game keeps 
moving and your new soldier materializes on the screen.  There's also 
enough well done cinema sequences (although there is NO full motion 
video, just stills and bits of animation) to satisfy everybody.  Let me 
say here that although I agree that "production values" do not make a 
bad game good, they can make a good game better.  And in the case of 
NAM-1975, it definitely works.  With all of the sounds, animation and 
basic commotion going on, the game has an extremely hectic and 
panicky feel to it -- this game is definitely NOT good for relaxation!  
The smooth, sharp graphics make it easy to see what's going on 
through all the mayhem.
   There is nothing truly, astoundingly unique about this game, but 
NAM-1975 is a very well done arcade action game.  All in all, I can say 
that I like it better then I've liked Terminator 2 and similar arcade 
games where your character is a disembodied being that does not 
appear on screen -- in those games the only thing you can do to avoid 
enemy fire is to shoot it.  In NAM, you can do this, but you also have 
the option of outmaneuvering it (and usually that's a better move.)  
Plus there's more variety in the types of enemies (and the weapons 
they use) you must fight.  Incidentally, this is a game that I would 
NOT want to play in the arcade, because it is a "quarter eater" type 
game.  If I hadn't rented the system, I never would have played it.  
NAM does not have a difficulty setting or any other options for that 
matter (except one or two player play.)  It would be nice if a level select 
were included, but I doubt such a thing is hidden in the game since it is 
a game designed for the arcade.  Like most action games, the longevity 
is questionable, but in the short to middle term, at least, this game is a 
lot of fun.  All in all a very impressive action game.

FOOTBALL FRENZY

   Football (as in the American variety) Frenzy is a game that I have to 
say I did not like at first.  I mean, here is a very expensive football 
game which doesn't even allow the defense to pick a play -- only the 
offense does.  However, after playing the game for a while, I came to 
the realization that in spite of the fact that it is clearly flawed, I 
enjoyed playing this game much more then I ever enjoyed playing Joe 
Montana 2, and either John Madden Football games.  The thing that 
makes it click is that the goal of the design team for this game was to 
create a football game that was greatly simplified.  The reasons for this 
were two fold.  For one, being designed for the arcade environment, you 
can't succeed with a game that requires a 20 page long instruction 
manual.  You need something that people can pick up on in a hurry.  
And secondly, by simplifying the game, it is possible to make the 
computer play pretty well.  The problem with complex football games is 
that you inevitably find a fatal flaw that makes it possible to guarantee 
winning every time.  It is basically impossible to create a video football 
game that plays well if you don't simplify the rules.  Atari understood 
this when they created Cyberball and SNK has with Football Frenzy.  
An important thing to point out is that even if you play two player 
games, the computer is still controlling most of the players on your 
team.  So a smart computer player is still important in two player 
games.
   I still think taking away all choice in defensive plays is a mistake, 
but it's not a big enough mistake to keep this game from being fun.  
One advantage to this approach is that you rarely get in a situation 
where a receiver is left ridiculously wide open, resulting in a 99 yard 
touchdown.  In other football games this seems to happen a lot and, in 
my opinion, just gets frustrating.  If the offense happens to call one 
play and the defense happens to call another, you're screwed -- it may 
be realistic, but it isn't fun if it happens all the time.  Another way they 
avoid this situation is that in every pass play, the receivers run out to a 
certain point and then stop.  That way they aren't 50 yards down field 
and wide open -- there's always a chance to tackle them before they 
make it to the end zone.  Atari's Cyberball used a similar approach in 
that there aren't any real "bomb" plays.  Keeping things in tight makes 
it easier to see what's going on and again, helps keep a lid on the 
passing game.
   Other things that make it easier to defend in FF are the fact that 
there are no penalties.  Interference is never called and in video 
football games, in which passing is usually too effective, this helps to 
keep passing under control.
  FF uses a horizontal perspective similar to Joe Montana Football 2 on 
the Genesis.  I prefer this approach, because it allows you to see 
further down field and see plays developing.  It, also like Joe, has a 
zoomed in view, but fortunately it's much less distracting then in Joe 
Montana.  It is used all the time (it doesn't start out wide and then 
zoom in, it's zoomed in from the start of the play) during running plays, 
and is used in passing plays only AFTER the play comes to an end (you 
get a zoomed in view of the players reactions.)  In Joe Montana, as soon 
as you throw the ball the camera zooms in during the play, and I found 
it disconcerting.   During running plays in FF this gives a more narrow 
view of the field which makes it more difficult to see what's coming at 
you.  On the other hand, it actually makes it easier to see where holes 
are being opened up in the defense --  when using running plays, you 
can see if a hole is opening up in the defensive line and if it isn't you 
can pitch the ball outside, or whatever.  This makes running plays both 
more effective and more fun.  Also, the zoomed in view is not zoomed in 
quite as far as in JM2, so the claustrophobia is not nearly as bad.  At 
the bottom of the screen is a diagram of the whole field that shows 
where the two main players are, which helps on defense.
   Controls are fairly simple and for the most part very responsive.  On 
offense, you first pick a type of play (pass, run or kick) and then a play 
of that type from a list of choices.  The choices of plays are different for 
each game you play.  You hike the ball by pressing the A button and at 
all other times the A button when pressed rapidly makes the player 
under your control run faster.  The B, C and D buttons are the 
pass/lateral buttons.  On each play, there are three offensive players 
that have one of those letters floating above their heads (actual, the 
word "PASS" and the letter alternately flash over their head.)  By 
pressing the corresponding button you pass or lateral to that player.  
This is were the mostly responsive comes in -- on occasion I found that 
I'd press a passing button and nothing would happen.  It seems like 
you always pass as long as you are moving, but occasionally I'd forget 
to do this.  In most cases it didn't seem to matter if I was moving or 
not.
   The player with the ball can try to avoid being tackled by jostling the 
joystick around.  The more and faster you do this, the more likely that 
you'll break free or at least surge for an extra yard or two.  That aspect 
of the controls really adds to the game and is the type of feature you 
could only expect to find on the NEO-GEO because anyone who owns 
one has real joysticks instead of control pads.  Trying to use this 
technique on the typical control pad would be at the least difficult and 
at the worst painful, therefore, game manufacturers for other systems 
won't put that type of feature into a game (at least not if they want it 
to sell, or if it's a guaranteed seller like Street Fighter 2).  Other then 
the occasional passing glitch as detailed above, the controls are very 
responsive unlike the controls in Joe Montana 2. 
   On defense, the controls are even simpler.  The A button makes the 
player you are controlling run faster and when near the player with 
the ball it makes you try to tackle them.  The more rapidly you press 
the button, the faster you run and the harder you tackle.  The B button 
is used before a play begins to switch the player under your control (it 
rotates around the players) and during a play to switch to the 
defensive player closest to the ball.  When playing against the 
computer, the computer hikes the ball so fast it's a bit hard to switch 
players.  However, this fits in with the "frenzy" aspect of the game -- 
it's paced very fast.
   Kicking the ball is done entirely with the A button.  The first press 
starts the play and then the faster you press the A button the higher 
the distance meter goes up.  Note that you can NOT control the 
direction of the football -- like Cyberball, the ball always goes in a 
straight line.  It apparently is possible to fake a punt or field goal 
attempt (I've seen the computer player do it), but I couldn't figure out 
how to do it and it wasn't mentioned in the instructions.  I think, 
however, that the instructions may be an abbreviated rental version -- 
I'm not sure though.  For extra points you have the option of kicking 
for 1 point or passing/running for 2 points as in college football which 
is nice.  Also like college football, there are no overtime periods (you 
lose if you tie) and fumbles can not be returned by the defense 
(interceptions can.)
   A unique feature/flaw in this game (depending on how you look at it) 
is that they did not make any attempt to hide what play the computer 
or the other player called on offense.  I believe this was done 
intentionally and the result is that it helps you to play defense better 
and in the end I think was a good idea.  I played a couple games that 
ended in a 0 to 0 tie, which I think is a first in video football games 
(however, I was playing with short quarters -- 1 minute 30 seconds 
each in game time -- and the hard difficulty setting).  I played others 
where it was 27 to 31 and one where I was blown out something like 42 
to 0.  So in some ways FF is MORE realistic then the any of the JMF's.  
Note that with all the plays there are options of what you can do, so it 
doesn't tell the defense everything, but it does make it more 
challenging for either player to score points.
   Some flaws in the game (in addition to the few I've already 
mentioned) are that the score, time remaining, quarter and field 
position do not appear in the play selection screen which means you 
had better take notice of what the situation is as soon as a play is over 
or you have no way of finding out.  This is an oversight that they 
should have been avoided.  Also, the computer plays a very good game, 
but not at first.  In the first game I play on easy or normal difficulty 
settings, the computer plays a bit on the stupid side doing dumb things 
like calling a run play on 4th down and 28 yards to go on their own 20 
yard line.  If you set the difficulty level to hard or "MVP" it doesn't do 
things like this.  Even in normal mode, after the first game the 
computer gets smarter and tougher.
   On the back of the box it says, "... with on-going play by play 
announcing...."  Well, to call what FF has "play by play" is a bit of an 
exageration.  It does tell you the situation like, "The Wolves have the 
ball back!"  This is OK, because although the commentary in JM2 is 
fun at first, it gets annoying after a while, because it is so constant -- 
the announcer just doesn't shut up!  True to TV football announcers, 
maybe, but they drive me crazy too!
   Unlike NAM, Football Frenzy does have some game play options.  
Obviously you can choose which teams are playing (there are 10 teams 
each of which has different characteristics and a particular play which 
is supposed to be their best one.)  In addition you can set the difficulty 
level.   The choices are: Beginner, Normal (the default), Hard and 
MVS.  I'm not sure I understand what "MVS" is -- in the manual it 
states: "Same difficulty as Arcade MVS (between Normal and Hard)".  
I'm not sure if that means that Hard is actually harder then MVS or 
not.  The other thing that you can set is the length of the quarters.  
Choices range from 1 minute 30 seconds to 10 minutes.  However, that 
is game time which is faster then real time.  One option this game is 
missing is a two player cooperative mode like in both John Madden '92 
and Joe Montana 2. 
   In one player games you play in a 10 team tournament where the 
matches are randomly chosen.  After your game is finished you have 
the option of watching one or more of the other games -- DON'T be 
tempted to do this as I could find no way to cancel out of it which 
means you have to sit through the whole game!
   After telling you the features of this game, your conclusion has to be 
that it doesn't have that much to offer, BUT, the fact is that in spite of 
these short comings I found FF to be a lot more fun then other home 
system football games I've played.  As far as arcade football games, the 
old game John Elway's Quarterback is still my favorite because of the 
unique controls that worked really well for passing, although it never 
played a very difficult game.  I liked Cyberball just about as much and 
would maybe give it a slight edge (however, the home versions of 
Cyberball would rank pretty low, though it is probably the best 
Genesis football game.)  Also, I think part of the reason why the game 
is fun is the design and capabilities of the underlying system.  For 
instance the fact that it's a given that real arcade style joysticks are 
being used and the ability of the system to handle rapid user input 
without glitches (for the most part) allows them to add interesting 
control variations -- the joystick jostling to avoid tackles, for instance.   
Add to that the fact that it has fantastic graphics, smooth animation 
and good sound and you can't beat it.  One bad thing is the background 
music -- well done, but there's no way to turn it off.  Fortunately the 
game is paced fast enough that you tend to forget about the music after 
a while.  My last comment would be that although in NAM-1975 I can 
see where the 46 megaBITS (5 3/4 megaBYTES) ROM space was used 
for, with FF, it's not so obvious what much of the 48 megaBITS (6 
megaBYTES) is used for.  There is very nice digitized sound/voice, but 
not nearly as much as in NAM and NAM even has plenty of cinema 
intros, etc.
   Football Frenzy is not as impressive in an overall sense as is NAM-
1975, but it is a fun game and probably has longer longevity then 
NAM.

SUMMARY

   All in all, in spite of all the NEO-GEO bashing that's been going on, 
I'm impressed with my first in home experience with the system.  The 
first two games I rented where enjoyable and most of the games I've 
rented for Nintendo and Genesis have been dogs.  So far the N.G. is 
batting a thousand.  I think the comment by one N.G. owner that it is a 
completely different experience at home, carries real weight -- I've 
definitely enjoyed these two games and the system in general at home 
much more then I've enjoyed the system in the arcade (before this the 
only thing I had played on N.G. was King of the Monsters which is a 
fun game, but nothing else interested me.)  Not surprisingly, SNK has 
their stinkers as well.  I accidentally played one game of theirs at the 
arcade (picked the wrong game by accident) that was a moronic Double 
Dragon clone.  It was abysmal, but then so are most Nintendo, SNES, 
and Genesis games!  Obviously you need to try games out before 
buying and with the Neo-Geo this is often easier then for the other 
home systems since N.G. machines are in most arcades.
   Both games I rented really feel like arcade games in every respect -- 
there is no skimping whatsoever and I think that's the point of NEO-
GEO.  Both games are primarily action games and that is what NEO-
GEO is best at.  For action games you can't beat it.  If you can afford it 
and want real arcade games in your home then it is definitely worth 
the expense.  If you can not afford a NEO-GEO AND another system, 
then the N.G. would probably not be a good choice for your only 
system, because there probably will never be a huge library of games.  
SNK will undoubtedly keep producing games for it, because they make 
money twice on every game -- in the arcade (presumably where that 
make the most money) and in the home with little to no effort in 
moving it from the arcade to a home cartridge.  But, there may never 
be any third party developers as they have less to gain.
   Comparing NEO-GEO to Genesis and SNES is silly because you're 
really comparing apples and oranges.  N.G. is a very appealing option 
if you like to collect arcade video game machines (that is, the real 
arcade console games) for your own game room, or would like to, but 
can't afford it.  It is basically an arcade console that uses plug in 
cartridges like a home video game system.  The end result is an arcade 
machine that lets you have the equivalent of many different arcade 
consoles at a relatively cheap price.  New arcade games start at several 
thousands of dollars (US) and used ones will still cost you a pretty 
penny.  In that regard the $650 for a NEO-GEO is a bargain and not a 
rip-off as most usenetters have labeled it.  N.G. games are also a hell of 
a lot easier to sell when you are tired of the game -- you don't have to 
ship a several hundred pound arcade machine, just a lightweight 
cartridge!
   Before renting it, I never even considered owning a NEO-GEO, but 
now I'm entertaining thoughts (maybe sell some prime marsh land?)  I 
suppose that would be the best indication of my impressions of the 
system.  I don't suspect I'll ever really fork out the money for the 
system, but I will be envious of those who can afford to!

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.games.video