Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: How to bid this one?
From: avir@chen.bgu.ac.il (Avi Roy Shapira)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 03:31:31 GMT
Organization: Ben Gurion University, Beer Sheva, Israel

bs@gauss.mitre.org (Robert D. Silverman) writes:
: In article <1992Aug13.121452.23309@corax.udac.uu.se> olle@astro.uu.se (Olof Morell) writes:
: :|> >:>Last night (pairs event) i got the following west hand, N dealer , All:
: :|> >:
: :|> >:>AT9
: :|> >:>AKJ92
: :|> >:>-
: :|> >:>AKQ75
: :

: [Bob throws up his hands in disgust...........]
:
: I have been over this a dozen times and the message just doesn't seem to
: get through.
:
: Say you open 2C on this hand. LHO jumps to 4D, partner passes or doubles
: according to your agreements and RHO now bids 5D.
:
: Now what?
:
: You are at the 5 level and partner still doesn't know what your hand is.
: He doesn't know what suits you hold, whether you have a balanced 23 count
: or this hand, etc.
:
: Opening 2C on strong 2-suiters is an open invitation to get preempted
: out of your suits. Remember also that since this hand only has 21 HCP
: there is more for the opponents to hold, which makes it more likely
: that they can compete than if you held a 24 or 25 count.
:
: If you don't accept this argument: fine. Bid as you like but not with me
: as your partner.
:
: On the other hand, if you open 1H you can rebid clubs safely at whatever
: level is appropriate.
:An extreme example
: AKQxxx
: AKQxxx
: A
: -
:
: This is a 22-count. Does anyone seriously believe this should be opened
: with 2C?  If you open 2C you could be at the 6 or 7 level before
: showing either of your suits and you will have to guess which suit to
: play in.
:
: e.g.
:
: 2C-4C-P-6C
: ??

7C, correcting 7D to 7H.  WTP?

: However, opening 1S you are fine. Your next bid is 7H and PARTNER
: picks the suit.

I can't believe this nonsense. Opening 1S you are guarnteed a plus
score: +260.  Do you really believe you will hear *7* clubs the next
time around? Even so 7C doubled is better than 260.

Seriously, the main reason for bidding 2C with the original hand is to
get partner to co-operate in investigating a slam with a few well placed
queens.  If you open at the one level, you commit yourself to bidding a
slam over any response from partner except a weak misfit. If you open
2C, you are relieved of the pressure.

True, once in a while you will be preempted out of one of your suits, and
will be made to look silly. But these occasions are rare and few, and most
of the time you will be able to recover even after a vigorous pre-empt.

Going back to the original hand, Give partner something like
KQx, Qxxx, Jxxx, xx.  There is no way you can convince partner that the
grand is cold after your 1H opening bid. Same is true over the actual
responder hand.

: :Isn't that putting too much pressure on your one bids? And on partner?
:
: Why? If partner can't respond to 1H you probably don't have a game.
:
: :Especially since you do not have any real difficulties with rebids after 2C,
:
: Assuming the opponents don't interfere.

The risk of interference is greatly exagerated, or do you believe in
Culberthson's law of symmetry, the tooth fairy, and Santa Claus?  If you
were playing BTC, you would open this one club, wouldn't you? It is much
easier to interfere over 1C than over 2C, but I did not notice that the
Italians got clobbered all the time with American pre-empts.
:
: :or 2H as I would open it playing Acol - which was the stated condition
:
: I said I had no problem with an ACOL 2H. --> you get to show your suits
:

: :I also think Bob's sequence is a little unrealistic:
: :a hand which has no controls at all and without extreme playing strength
: :is not likely to push very hard for slam opposite an opening
:
: I think you need some lessons in hand evaluation. 4C is hardly an
: overbid after partner jump shifts.

True, but the Heart Q bid certainly is. Unless you specifically agree to show
first and second round control.  This is a sound agreement, but only in
context of other agreements, including the use of 4NT as a general Q or DI.
Even then, the Q bid is not obligatory. (it would be in Blue team club, since
the number of controls is known, and partner is unlikely to be misled) Part
of the great success BTC had with its Q-bidding methods has to do with the
ability of both partners to make intelligent decisions.

Next time, Bob will hold Axx, KQ10xx - AKQxx. Surely even he will jump shift.
So the bidding will be the same. Now what?  Does the Heart Q show the Ace, or
does it show a singleton?  Or do you play that the Q-bid shows specifically
either an Ace or a singleton Q? How do you find out?

BTW, is the jump shift stronger than a reverse? I don't think most experts
play it as stronger.

: I suspect also that my requirements for a jump shift by opener are somewhat
: stricter than yours. I also suspect that I bid 1NT forcing on hands you would
: pass as responder.

If this is the case, then Bob is pushing his particular methods, not teaching
us bridge fundamentals.  You might as well suggest that this hand should be
opened one heart, because this is the correct bid in Roman. IFF you only
jump shift or reverse with this sort of hand, and partner keeps the bidding
open at all costs, which makes 1 level bids practically forcing, then 1H could
be right, but then you are playing Roman, sans canape and asking bids and
using 2C to show the big 1C hands.  (I see, Bob, that you have found a way to
overcome the ACBL restrictions against Roman after all :-). How clever!)

Avi