From: sfoley@uumeme.chi.il.us (Sean M. Foley)
Subject: Re: Pentagrams
Organization: UUMEME Public Access Xenix
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 14:25:03 GMT
Keywords: Pentagrams

In article <1992Dec21.043151.9191@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Lupo the Butcher) writes:
>In article <BzL6FC.GLr@news.cso.uiuc.edu> you write:
>>sfoley@uumeme.chi.il.us (Sean M. Foley) writes:
>>
>>>The only downfall of christianity as a whole is that it is WRONG. 
>>
>>Gods, the sheer intolerance in this statement!  This statement sounds exactly
>>like a fundamentalist preacher telling us that all pagan religions are wrong.
>
>Actually, NONE of the fundie preachers I have heard (and believe me, I have
>heard some beauts), have EVER made a blunt statement of factual incorrectness
>as this one seems to have been. All the fundies I have heard resort to morality
>and "righteousness" and other such artificialities. By and large christianity
>IS "wrong" in that it is based on fallacies, lies, historical innacuracies
>& delusions. For more on this see alt.atheist or (occasionally) alt.satanism.
  I don't think the people falling into these systems are "wrong" persay
I just think they are abit confused;As soon as they learn thought for their
own the wine seems tainted with poison. Basically, my "history" with 
christianity has been one of control.. As soon as I did what I needed to
outside of church "I was wrong", even if I harmed none. I'm trying not to
show the utter repulsion the christian concept raises in me, but that fails
every now and then :)(I dislike it from the point of "used-to be/left it for
better)). And, if these preachers were taking in morality, they'd take
someone elses morality into the equation.. And, not only their own..
 All in all.. right/wrong is subjective.. and if you listen to a code
to dictate that to you; you're asking for trouble, as I doubt that it would
be right for every person. 
>
>Now, if you think that Sean was referring to a Moral wrong, (which is possible,
>though doubtful) it is quite likely that by _his_ moral standards, christianity
>is wrong. By _my_ standards christianity is one of the most abominable meme
>systems ever created. The truely rotten thing about it is that I am forced
>to live on a planet infested with these "values". 

 By my standards, christianity could be nuked without a care.. With all the
ignorance it perpetuates I would miss it none; The system is detrimental to
evolution as it doesn't let one explore.. labeling everything "evil"..

>>Christianity, like all religions, is neither right nor wrong.  It simply is
>>a vessel for individuals.  I would agree that the *organisations* which claim
>>to be Christianity are wrong, but they aren't the religion no matter how often
>>they claim to be.
>
>I imagine that you are attempting to point out moral relativity here, though
>the language is not clear to me.
     My only real problem with most religions as a whole is the required
adoption of some set of rules that become mental laws that cannot be right
for all situations.. a preacher can scream "This is the word of god" the
the phrase "Well, if it's the word of god when exactly did he say it?" comes
to mind.. Again, this system acts like a lesser form of indentured servitude
where if you break the masters laws you are severly beaten.. WHO WOULD 
CONTEST THE PREACHER IN HIS RIGHT MIND IF THIS WERE SO?... none.. Of course..
A sane person recognizes this as propaganda... But, the "believer" doesn't..
 They must "subscribe" to the law and become his servants.. One of his
laws(so called) being "Don't take the lord's name in vain.".. Again, it
reiks of slavery.. As you cannot formally insult your master if you feel
he is wrong...
 I don't think the concept of God is wrong... I feel the concept of religion
is wrong.. Let me be clear on that.. 

-Sean


-- 
| sfoley@uumeme.chi.il.us |       I only look like I have a clue.           |
 -  Is it not amazing that so many religions have stolen symbols from other  -
 - religions that they despise? It almost makes you think :                  -
 - "What are they fighting about? They look the same to me!"                 -
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