From: tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian Immigrants on SAT English
Date: 7 Apr 92 23:02:00 GMT
Organization: University of California, Davis / LLNL

In article <92098.085800U49146@uicvm.uic.edu> U49146@uicvm.uic.edu writes:
->In article <121835@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV>, tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov says:
->>
->>In article <92095.184430U49146@uicvm.uic.edu> U49146@uicvm.uic.edu writes:
->>->In article <56838@cup.portal.com>, Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com says:
->>->>
->>->>So ... Asian immigrants suffer even though they're smart because they
->>->>don't have english skills.
->>->>
->
->No.  The college applications I have seen up to date say that if your native la
->nguage is not English, you have (or have the choice to) take TOEFL.  So this in
->cludes also immigrants (unless you're native lge is English also).

Yes.  And they also say that even if you qualify to get in, they are many 
qualified candidates.   They can only take a few.  I was in a summer program
sponsor by university for high school students and they suggest that if
yoiu really want to get into a competitive program you should not take
TOEFL.

->And I did
->say that the SAT is required by some colleges (actually not only for immigrants
->but also for foreign students).  Now some college/universities say that you can
->sub the TOEFL, others say that you don't have to take TOEFL if you graduated fr
->om a high school where the principal language of instruction was English.  Othe
->rs require both regardless, etc.  How they decide whether or not given the oppo
->rtunities you had, you learned what they consider adequate is up to the individ
->ual colleges.

And yeah, some universities don't require any exams, and I am sure we are
all so eager to go there. :-)

->And yeah I know of people who took the SAT in less than 7 months
->since they were in this country and others who took it before even setting a fo
->ot here.  Now how long you stayed here before you took the SAT, and whether or
->not it was fair is a relative question.  Since English is an international lang
->uage, I assume you had some kind of exposure to it in your school in Asia.

Yeah, since English is such a popular language, we can very safely assume that
everyone got some exposure to it before high schol.  Give me a break, in
some Asian countries students don't learn anything beyond the 26 letter.
Why do they need to learn English if they stay in their countries?

->It
->might have been lousy or good.  And when you came, it depends in what kind of E
->nglish class you enrolled and the intensity etc.  When I said ages I meant some
->thing like 10 years, but from my perspective 4 yrs is ages.

You must be so smart that you can master a language in 4 years.  I wish
I can be as smart as you...

->Anyway my whole po
->int is that compared to native speakers, I don't see how these smart kids lose
->ut because of English skills.  If theyare applying to prestigious schools, they
->certainly have a lot of essays etc where they can make their situations perfect
->ly clear.

And I believe those admission committee members really sit down and analyze
every essay carefully.

->As for other schools, they are not that fussy anyway.  If you lose o
->ut to a person with a relatively similar background who did better,that's a dif
->ferent story.
->
->Whoa, that was long.  I have certainly not served on Admissions committee (:) b
->ut it would make sense to me that they have different standards.  Anyway my und
->erstanding is that Asians (as some people like to hammer it) usually enroll in
->technical fields, so I don't see where it really matter unless of course the co
->lleges want to use it as a criterion b/n otherwise equally qualified candidates
->

I believe there is a general minimum overall SAT score requirement for some
school and some majors.

->Sofia

--
Terry Cheung
tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:3657 soc.culture.taiwan:7514 soc.culture.china:13099