From: kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski)
Subject: Re: Vaccinations?
Organization: The Information Deli - via Netcom / San Jose, California
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 06:21:48 GMT

Disclaimer: This is not professional medical advice.  Do your own research
and consult your own qualified health care professional before relying on
any information posted to Usenet.

In article <1ij8pfINN6hf@transfer.stratus.com>, Tarl Neustaedter
<tarl@coyoacan.sw.stratus.com> writes:

>Mr. Kaminski was too polite to say it, so I guess I will. There is another
>Neustaedter, a flamer who posts to this newsgroup. One who holds diametrically
>opposed opinions. As far as I know, I'm no relation to Randall.

Opposite opinions do not a flamer make!  I respect the opinions of the
both of you, I just take each of you with different grains of salt. :)

>First, some comments about vaccines in general. There are usually two forms
>of adverse reaction to vaccines; symptoms of the disease being vaccinated
>against, and allergy to the growth medium.

I'll add some more:

= Reaction to preservatives in the vaccine -- I'm thinking specifically
  of thimerosal, which I remember mentioned in connection with one of
  the vaccines, though I can't find the reference now (I wish I could
  grep books!).

= Atypical forms of the diseases, both as reactions to the vaccine, and
  later in those immunized.  These may not always be diagnosed properly
  because they present with atypical symptoms.

= Other possible long-term effects which have been poorly examined,
  including increased susceptibility to allergies, autism, behavior
  disorders, dyslexia, immune deficiencies or malfunctions, and
  learning disabilities.  Some of the possible mechanisms for these
  might be auto-immune response to latent forms of the viruses in
  vaccines, sub-acute allergic encephalitis, and long-term
  immunosuppression.

It appears that studies investigating vaccine reactions are short-term
(two days to a week), and generally use a control group which has been
previously vaccinated.  Therefore, delayed reactions and long-term
effects are not properly studied.

>Second, some comment about childhood diseases. Specifically, Mumps, Measles,
>and Rubella [German Measles]. a) These diseases are bloody painful. You may
>not remember having had Mumps, but I do. It sux.

I'll counter your anecdote with mine.  I remember having mumps, and it
was no big deal (except for looking like a chipmunk with a mouth full
of nuts!).  Measles is a serious disease, mumps and rubella less so (at
least in children).  But point taken, they're diseases.

>2) Innoculate your population with vaccines, even if they occasionally show
>   complications (on the order of 1e-06? That may be the rate for DPT, though)

I'd say hard figures are difficult to come by, and of course depend on what
you mean by "complications".  If we include long-term effects which haven't
been studied, who knows?

>3) Forcibly induce the disease in all pre-pubescent children. Damned if I know
>   how you are going to do this without using injections of virus grown in
>   the same medium as evil vaccines. Potential problems:

How about an intermediate course?  Instead of dumping viruses or other
antigenic materials directly into the bloodstream, how about
administering them as mucosal vaccinations?

Natural immunity is postulated to be largely mucosal (at the point
viruses actually enter the body), involving the secretory
immunoglobulin A (IgA) antibodies.  Mucosal vaccinations would
stimulate these IgA antibodies, instead of the IgG antibodies (the
inner defenses) that injected vaccines do.

>For diseases as contagious as these (where >99% of an unprotected population
>will eventually contract the disease), the key is whether the complication
>rate from the vaccine is higher than the complication rate from the disease.

Yet Another Can o' Worms: homeopaths claim to be able to reduce the
incidence of complications in many of these viral diseases.

>For those of you who read this far, thanks for bearing with me. If you send
>me email, I won't be able to answer until tuesday - I'm heading out to help
>my grandfather celebrate his 90th birthday. He's an M.D. who hates homeopaths
>as frauds, but is spending his retirement playing golf twice a week. For a
>testimonial to the efficacy of conventional medicine (anecdotal evidence, which
>seems much in vogue), he is about as good as you get.

As long as it's not represented as something else, I like to hear
anecdotal evidence here.  Happy birthday to your grandfather! :)

Pete
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative