HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:25:05 EST
From:         Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Pregnant

One of the my most cherished memories of my mother (she is still living) is
that  when I failed, she did not condemn  me.  I married when I was 3 months
pregnant.  I was so ashamed and embarrassed and  it was a painful thing to
tell my Godly mother that I had failed to maintain a proper relationship with
my boyfriend.  She never screamed or condemned or pointed a finger,  she only
understood.  She offered me much support in  our decision  as to marry or not,
(abortion was never considered) and never tried to send  me away.  We didn't
have any money to speak of, but after we decided to marry, she gave all that
she had to buy me a few nice things to start my new life with.  She was a real
comfort to me and I thank God that my mom is one of my best friends.  In fact
at a later time, when I made a statement  that I would never commit a certain
sin, (adultry)  she gently chastised me to not make  those  statements.  We
never know  what temptations can come before us and how we may fail.  We know
that Christ is our Redeemer and that he loves us   enough to forgive us and
lead us away from our temptations.  God is  a wonderful  God.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:56:40 EST
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         Brenda Curry-White <BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Bible Dictionary (advice needed)

I'm trying to find a good Christmas gift for my brother.  Is the Holman
Bible Dictionary a very good one?  Would it be more useful than the Holman
Bible Handbook?  Any other suggestions?

                                       Brenda
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"
X-VMS-Cc: B882SA
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 08:43:00 CST
From:         Sieg A U R I C H <B882SA@UTARLG.UTA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: a Remark that caused a furor

James,
        Thank you.  I'm glad someone got it!

                Sieg <><
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:07:21 EST
From:         "SHELBY A. CROSS" <LIBSAC@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: NEW JOB-STEPHEN

Dear Stephen,

Congratulations and Praise the Lord for your new job.  I just wanted to
rejoice with you.  I love to receive good news, don't you (Smile)!!!!

Yours in Christ,

Shelby--
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Virginia Department of Health
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:19:16 EST
From:         "Michael A. Kline" <MKLINE@VDH.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Including Christ in Christmas
              14 Dec 1992 15:04:49 EST from <BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>

I don't remember if I posted it to all lists or just here, but my family
is doing a whole program on Christmas, and it is a 31 day program. We
have our own advent wreith.

The first 15 days deal with prophecy and the last 16 days with fulfilment.

Maks.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 14:25:06 -0700
From:         cartnaj <cartnaj@EAGLE.SAFB.AF.MIL>
Subject:      Civil Rights? Why?

>
> I must assume that you believe homosexuals likely pedophiles.  If that were
> true, I would agree with you.  However, all evidence I have ever heard shows
> just the opposite. I have heard that research shows the rate of child
molestors
> to be greater among heterosexuals.  Regardless of the sexual orientation

> discriminate in employment based on these assumptions.  References, please.

Brenda,

>From personal experience, I think you are wrong.  My family made the mistake
of visiting the Cincinatti Zoo on Gay Day.  Constant solicitations of my
children by these "gay" people occurred.  I will do everything in my power to
assure that homosexuals NEVER teach my children.  Men molesting boys IS
homosexual, I believe.  Unless you are redefining the term.


                                                Joe C.
                                                cartnaj@eagle.safb.af.mil
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 16:11:28 CST
From:         Anthony Glen Jeffries <jeffries@IASTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Urgent Prayer Request!
              09 Dec 92 13:52:17 +0000. <9212091414.AA21417@po-1.iastate.edu>

> I need all of your prayers NOW!  My wife's little brother is in
> major need of protection from God.  He is 11 years old and has
> a demonic boy at school chanting spells over him, threatening
> his life, and much more!  He is scared to death.  His mother
> has been teaching him how to war in the spirit.  Of course at
> 11 years old I know how he must feel.  Please pray that God
> would move this demonic boy, Wesley out of the school system.
> Let's pray that the devil will have to move and not Tony, my wifes
> little brother.  God bless you all and Thanks!

Dear Danny,

This is a bit late, but I haven't read my mail very thoroughly these past few
days.  I just want you to know that I am praying for your wife's little
brother.

Anthony Glen Jeffries
Journalism and Mass Communication student, Iowa State University
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Acknowledge-To: <S096556@UMRVMA>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 11:49:23 CST
From:         Lonnie Schubert <S096556@UMRVMA.BITNET>
Subject:      More salvation not= forgiveness

>On 12/14/92 at 15:18:34 Lonnie Schubert said:
>>If salvation exactly equals forgiveness,
>>does "I and the Father are One" mean that Jesus is His
>>own Father?
>>I think not.
>>There still seems to be a big difference that does the
>>Gospel a grave injustice to ignore, IMO.

& Bernice replied:
> [ Deleted stuff ]
>The Trinity,(my God) is a powerful force and nothing
>could break the power of it's whole, not even death.  I
>feel so inept.  I cannot begin to describe the power of
>and wonder of God.

Bernice,
I think what you have here stated is truer and more
powerful than we both, combined, can imagine.

However, I feel that you missed the point of my original
statement.  My intent was to point out that it is not
valid to equate terms and concepts even though they are
used conjointly in the scriptures.

Thus, I hold that it is absurd to claim that Jesus was His
own father.  Saying such is quite different from saying
that Jesus and the Father are one.  Likewise, Love is
*NOT* God, even though God is truely Love.  Setting Love
equal to God is idolitry.  It is not the same as saying
that God is necessarily Love.

Now, addressing again my original point in this thread,
forgiveness of sin is not identical to nor equal to
salvation.  There are very significant differences.  And,
in my belief, one does not necessarily imply the other.

Lonnie Schubert
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Samford University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 08:06:54 CST
From:         Renee Autry <SRAUTRY@SAMFORD.BITNET>
Subject:      Merry Christmas

Dear all on Christia,

I will be going on nomail beginning this afternoon until after Christmas as
John and I are leaving for Williamsburg, Va. tomorrow morning.  We will be
traveling with the Advanced Placement U.S. History and Literature classes from
a high school in Georgia.  We will both be giving lectures some of the time,
but mostly enjoying the trip with the students.

Please be in prayer for our travelling.  I am sure it will all go very smoothly
but with high school seniors one never knows.

I hope that you all have a wonderful Christmas, and I will look forward to
being back with you at the beginning of the new year.

Merry Christmas!

Renee Autry
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 04:31:57 EST
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      Nurse heading Planned Parenthood

A recent posting informed us that Planned Parenthood is about to be
headed by a nurse who is a professed Roman Catholic. Part of the
ensuing discussion assumed that she is a nun, which she is not. I
believe that the confusion arose when one listmember referred to her
as "Sister Maraldo." In Britain and some other countries, a
supervisory nurse is called a "sister," with no intended religious
overtones. Thus, before the development of a polio vaccine, the
chief defense against the ravages of polio was a treatment with a
good record for avoiding paralysis in the patient, a treatment
developed by an Australian nurse called Sister Kenny.

 Yours,
 James Kiefer
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan)
Subject: Re: Jeremiah 10:2-4 KJV
Organization: U of Cambridge, England
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:14:45 GMT

In article <09DEC92.10712199.0026.MUSIC@DCCCDBIT> Yvette Traylor <YST1@DCCCDBIT.BITNET> writes:
>Could someone please give me their interpertation(sp?) of the
>following scriptures: Jeremiah 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the
>way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the
>heathen are dismayed at them.  3 For the customs of the people are vain:
>for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the
>workman, with the axe.  4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they
>fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.  5 They are
>upright as the palm tree, but speak not:...

It's about idols, isn't it?

-- 
Gareth McCaughan     Dept. of Pure Mathematics & Mathematical Statistics,
gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk  Cambridge University, England.    [Research student]
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 10:20:47 -0700
From:         "John W. Woolley" <jww@EVOLVING.COM>
Subject:      Re: jesse replies on Gospel

Jesse wrote:
> As to the first point, Gordon sees rather, that Jesus raised himself from the
> dead.  Now, I will admit that Jesus, Himself, did RISE ; but that is different
> from saying that Jesus raised HIMSELF by His own inertia -- by His own power.
> So what is the Scriptural analysis on this?
...
> Grammatical/historical context of Scripture must have priority over our
> presuppositions.

But don't forget: "I have power to lay down my life, and to take it
up again."

I think the solution here lies in the doctrine of the Trinity.  Anything
done by any of the three Persons is done by all three.  The Father raised
Christ.  Christ raised himself.  No contradiction.

> Because although we agree that Christ was, is, and ever shall be inherently
> Righteous -- in His own right as Diety, that attribute of Divine Righteousness
> CANNOT be given to anyone.

The truth is more radical even than that.  In some sense, we actually
become the divine attributes, we are raised into God's nature:  "That
we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

> This brings in the idea that Christ HAD to earn a Righteousness
> for His people, rather than just stay in Heaven and dump, as it were, a
> Righteousness INTO us.

The Athanasian Creed speaks to this, as to many other questions, in one
of its most important verses.  The Incarnation happened, it says, "Not
by the conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by the raising of
Manhood into God."  It isn't that Christ sits in heaven "dumping"
Righteousness into us on Earth -- it's that in him we, now and forever,
sit in the heavenly places.

Yes, in human terms it makes sense to speak of Jesus' earning a reward,
and for us.  But let's not let that fact blind us to the fact of his
eternal righteousness, in which we now (by Mercy, by Grace) participate.

-- Fr. John
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via:      UK.AC.SOLENT; 11 DEC 92 17:35:05 GMT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:36:00 GMT
From:         CAROL L <Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK>
Subject:      RE: Grace before Lunch

I still prefer :

Bless this bunch as they munch their lunch

still what do you expect from me ???

Have a great weekend
God Bless
Carol L
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 09:09:00 EST
From:         "Carl A. Lahetta" <U952020@RUTADMIN.BITNET>
Subject:      Family In Distress - Prayer Request

   Today is the day of my father-in-laws open heart surgery.  I'd like to
thank those who are praying for him.  Last night my wife told me that her
grandmother was admitted to a hospital.  Please pray for my mother-in-law,
she now has two loved ones in need.  My wife's grandmother is 98 yrs old
and is very near the end.  Please pray that she dies peacefully.  Most of
all please pray for my wife who is so graciously ministering to her mother
and father and is being a mainstay for her mother through this crisis.
Sometime tonight after my father-in-law's surgery is over my mother-in-law
will learn that her mother is in the hospital.  It would be too much for
her to know at this point in time.  And my wife's sister is also having a
tough time since her husband's grandmother just died this week and is to
be buried today.  This is not going to be a Merry Christmas.

Carl---+
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Virginia Department of Health
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:02:54 EST
From:         "Michael A. Kline" <MKLINE@VDH.BITNET>
Subject:      Gay Bashing

I think it was here that some of the articles about gay bashing were
posted. I didn't do one article that was done around the time of the
election.

The state that voted on "9" against gay rights had posters all over the
place. One of them showed the Christian "fish" symbol on a spit over a
fire. The caption was (NO was FOR homosexual "rights".)

              You Burn Us. We burn You. No on 9.

              Vote NO on 9 or we shoot the fish.

                Civil Rights or Civil War.
          (Your choice for a limited time only.)
                          No on 9.

                      QUEER KNIVES
                       QUEER GUNS
                      QUEER BULLETS
                      QUEER MISSILES
                       QUEER TANKS
                     QUEER TRENCHES
                       QUEER FIRE
                      QUEER WARFARE
                     QUEER PATRIOTS
                        NO ON 9
                     IS A GOOD IDEA

These were posted on telephone poles at the Hawthorne Street Fair in
Portland. Most hateful.

I didn't post them because I thought them in bad taste, but it appears
anything posted showing Christians in a bad light is just fine. Anyhow,
"The above posted without comment."

Maks.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sat, 12 Dec 1992 00:57:37 -0600
From:         Tim Rolfe <rolfe@DSUVAX.DSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Re>Romans 6:5... and Viet Nam

In <CHRISTIA%92121114115719@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU> Leo W <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
writes:

[...]
>Back during the Vietnam war, many had a similar choice facing them.  Some went
>to Vietnam and died for others' sakes.  Some avoided the war by legal means.
>few dodged their legal obligations to go to Vietnam, causing someone else to
>go in their places.  I've often wondered who they were that went in the draft
>dodgers' steads, and I've also wondered if they would even care to know.
[...]

I will try to be calm; I will try to be understanding . . .

I was subject to, nay, white-hot for the draft in 1966 when coming off a
seminarian deferment.  (Apologies on spelling; 'tis late at night now.)
Based on the information available at the time I decided that the United
States involvement in Viet Nam was appropriate; as part of the decision
I ended up in Officer Training School (USAF) presenting a practice
briefing on Just War theory and dug deeper into it after that (when I
was in technical school to become an aircraft maintenance officer).
As it happened I was reassigned within SAC during my tour and did not
end up in direct support of the Viet Nam conflict (in Guam or Thailand).

I trust that establishes my credentials for Leo W as not being a draft
dodger --- though my enlisting in the Air Force was to avoid being
drafted into the Army or Marines.

But I must most strongly contest the suggestion that those opposing that
involvement necessarily did so for self interest rather than principle;
indeed I strongly suspect that many that died there did not consciously
die "for others' sake" but just because they were swept up in the US war
effort and died at the hands of gooks because the US sent them there to
fight on behalf of OUR gooks (racial slur used to reflect usage of the
time).

Perhaps Leo W. would prefer a model in which citizens jump to military
service without questioning the orders given or the actions required.

If not he might try to entertain the idea that some people deeply
committed to America during the Vietnam era disagreed with the United
Stated Executive Branch (and with me) on whether the Vietnam conflict
could be viewed as a Just War and took the actions available to them
under the laws of the time (and some actions NOT legal at the time).
--
                                              --- Tim Rolfe
                                           rolfe@dsuvax.dsu.edu
                                            ROLFE@SDNET.BITNET
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU (Brenda Curry-White)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Christmas Sharing
Date: 17 Dec 92 17:20:49 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X

Center for Urban and Economic Research
Phone: 502-588-6626

Bill Jordan suggests:  "...to share some of our family Christmas traditions."

My sister was just here visiting this week.  She was telling me about a
tradition that her family has always practiced, and I think our family will
start now that we have Sarah.  We do the Santa thing, which both David and
I enjoy, and I think this tradition helps put Santa in perspective.

Julie (my sister) was telling me that she always has a manger scene displayed
in her home.  But the baby Jesus does not arrive at the manger scene until
Christmas morning.  During the night, Santa Claus puts him there.  I think
this is a wonderful way to teach Sarah that even Santa Claus shows reverence
for the Christ-child, and remembers the real meaning of Christmas.  For without
Christ, there is no Christmas.

The only funny part of the tradition was one year when her son was beginning
to question Santa.  He hid the baby Jesus.  When Julie went to set up
the manger scene, she noticed he was gone, and so she asked Samuel where he
was.  "Santa will know," was all he would tell her.  Well, it took Santa a
whole week to find the baby Jesus at the bottom of Samuel's toy chest, but on
Christmas morning, there was Jesus, born in the manger.

Brenda
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
X-Mailer: QuickMail/SMTP interface.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 13:22:18 EDT
From:         Leo W <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Scripturette 12/14

MAN:  "We were only born yesterday and know nothing.  Our days on earth are
like only a shadow" (Job 8:9).

GOD:  "Lord, your kingdom was set up long ago.  You are everlasting" (Psalm
93:2).  "God lives forever and is holy.  He is high and lifted up ... in a high
and holy place" (Isaiah 57:15).

"The Lord says, "I am the one who comforts you.  So why should you be afraid of
people, who die?  Why should you fear people who die like grass?  Have you
forgotten that the Lord made you?  He stretched out the skies.  He made the
earth" (Isaiah 51:12,13).

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo

Scriptures quoted from the International Children's Bible (ICB), New Century
Version, copyright 1986, 1988 by Word Publishing, Dallas, Texas 75039.  Used by
permission.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 16:22:07 -0600
From:         jim coen <coen@ACC.WUACC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Urgent Prayer Request!

God bless you. We are praying.

Perhaps we should consider asking the Father to save the demonic little
boy rather than moving him out of the school system.

Take heart! Greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world!

coen@acc.wuacc.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice: SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Organization: Rutherford Appleton Laboratory
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 09:09:48 GMT
From:         Jonathan Wheeler <JFW1@IBM-B.RUTHERFORD.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: Children and Parents
              14 Dec 1992 08:30:00 +1000 from <DIEFENBAK@AU.EDU.UCQ.TOPAZ>

Ken,
    You told us all about your family's experience of abuse by a child who
did not know that one of your children is developmentally delayed.  As father
to Glenn who has Down's Syndrome, I can relate to this situation.  The
similarity to Ken's situation is that both my wife and myself are university
graduates; the main difference is that Glenn is adopted, so we had the
opportunity to make a choice about him that birth-parents do not.

I think that it is important that we as Christians do not place value on
people in the same way that the world does.  One of the things that Jesus
did when he lived on this earth was to show just how different God looks at
people.  For example, a child was chosen as an illustration of the way that we
should enter the kingdon of God.  Another illustration of this principle is
the choice of the twelve apostles, who were not chosen from the religious or
intellectual elite of the day.  I have heard tell of a British noblewoman
whose favourite letter in the Bible was the letter 'm', from the translation
1 Corinthians 1:26 which reads 'For consider your call, brethren; .... not
many were of noble birth' (without the 'm', it would read 'not any were of
noble birth').

I hope that this helps.  Ken, please send e-mail to me personally if you
would like to discuss this more privately.

Yours sincerely

Jonathan Wheeler

PS: It has occurred to me that some of you may not know what Down's Syndrome
    is.  It is a genetic defect where all (sometimes some) of the genes in
    in the body have an extra chromosome.  Consequently the effects on the
    affected person are widespread, but there is always a degree of mental
    handicap.  There is also a wide range of physical problems that may or
    may not be present.  Down's Syndrome used to be called mongolism, but
    that term is now seen to be inappropriate.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:18:40 EST
From:         Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Eternal Security: supporting your argument

No, Jesse.  You did not answer my question.  But it will take time for me to
 explain and that will not be for some time.  I will get to it, eventually.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU