From: brg6080@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Rasputin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Regarding Serdar Argic's references
Date: 12 Nov 92 09:43:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BxLKC5.8rF
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana


Since sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) is crossposting to
soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna and soc.culture.yugoslavia, these recent
comments on his sources may be of interest:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian)
Subject: Addressing Turkish Genocide Apology #447
Summary: Another reference from a non-exiatant source 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

As scribed in <9211052040@zuma.UUCP>, a further Turkish re-write of history, 
posted via its fascist servant sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic), we found...

...another reference from a non-existent source!

Note: [(*] == Turkish re-write of history.

Turkish Genocide Apology responded to article <1992Nov3.193633.3990@newstand.
syr.edu> crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea) who wrote:

[CRD] Yeah. What a great historian you are! Too arrogant to even define an 
[CRD] uncommon term. I haven't had a conversation like this since I left 
[CRD] fourth grade, "dildo".

[(*] In March 1915, the Russian forces began to move toward Van. Immediately,
[(*] in April 11, 1915 the Armenians of Van began a revolt, massacring all 
[(*] the Turks in the vicinity so as to make possible its quick and easy 
[(*] conquest by Russians. Little wonder that Czar Nicholas II sent a 
[(*] telegram of thanks to the Armenian Revolutionary Committee of Van in 
[(*] April 21, 1915, "thanking it for its services to Russia." The Armenian 
[(*] newspaper Gochnak, published in the United States, also proudly 
[(*] reported in May 24, 1915 that 

[(*] "only 1,500 Turks remained in Van the rest having been slaughtered."

Upon checking the Gochnak newspapers here at the Center for Regional Studies:

First of all, THERE IS NO MAY 24th, 1915 ISSUE OF GOCHNAK!

Second, the closest issue of Gochnak to the May, 24th, 1915 issue is the May
15th, 1915 which only mentions Turkish attacks on the Van and Salmast 
(Persia) regions.

Third, Gochnak was published in the Armenian language, too bad Mr. Turkish 
Fascist.

Forth, today there are no Armenians in Van -- only Turks! Upon quoting a
Turkish government sponsored reference, used in the cover-up of the Turkish
genocide of the Armenians, we find:

	"The 1927 Turkish census registered not one person of the Gregorian
	 Armenian faith in Van, one on Bayazit, and twelve in Erzurum. A
	 people who had lived in eastern Anatolia since before recorded
	 history were simply gone". [1]

NO Armenians left in Van, not a single Armenian! Oh yes, the Armenian, "were 
simply gone", they vanished, as truth vanishes when the pen is in the hands of
Turkish Genocide Apology!

		- - - Turkish-suggested Reference - - -

[1] _Muslims and Minorities; The Population of Ottoman Anatolia and the End
    of the Empire, Justin McCarthy, New York University Press, 1983, page 121
-- 
David Davidian dbd@urartu.sdpa.org "It has been ever thus in all things, son, 
SDPA Center for Regional Studies    Whatever we thrash we give to the wind, 
P.O. Box 382761                     We too have been blown by the world's wind
Cambridge, MA 02238                 The chaff is gone but the grain remains." 


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian)
Subject: Addressing Turkish Genocide Apology #448
Summary: Exposing selective deletions of the text in a reference 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

In Turkish Genocide Apology via article <9211031930@zuma.UUCP> posted by their
latest servile dolt, sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic), we find a response to:

[(*] == Turkish Genocide Apology

...article <Bx59oB.DAq@hermes.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> iptsiant@techfak.uni-
bielefeld.de (Panagiotis Tsiantopoulos) who wrote:

[PT] I think you know of the slaughter and murder of over 100,000 (some 
[PT] decades ago, I know, but nevertheless...)?!

In response, Mr. [(*], uses the doctored reference:

[(*] Source: Hassan Arfa, "The Kurds," (London, 1968), pp. 25-26.

OK, fine!

   +----------------------------------------------------------+
   |                                                          |
   |  The Expose' of Iranian General and Turkish Ambassador   |
   |  Hassan Arfa as Used in an Anti-Armenian Campaign        |
   |  Sponsored by the Turkish Government as Presented by     |
   |  their UseNet-Surrogates.                                |
   |                                                          |
   +----------------------------------------------------------+

Once again we shall expose the Turkish Historical Society for what they 
are -- a pack of historical revisionists!

Highlights:

1) Hassan Arfa is not a Kurd, as claimed by Turkish Historical Society via
   their scribal dolts,

2) Hassan Arfa personally led Azeris into attacks on Kurds circa 1920,

3) Hassan Arfa was an Iranian General and Chief of Staff,

4) Hassan Arfa ended his career as the Iranian Ambassador to Turkey!

Let's witness just how the revision of history can take place, and once again
in an astounding fashion it will be exposed and thrown onto an ever-expanding
garbage heap along with neo-Nazism propaganda.

[(*] Kurdish and western scholars say it's all there.

Hassan Arfa was an Iranian General, not a scholar. Ethically he was a 
Caucasian Muslim, NEITHER a Kurd nor a western "scholar". In the reference 
used he never claimed to be a Kurd, only Iranian! He was also the Chief of 
Staff of the Iranian Army 1944-46, and the Ambassador to Turkey 1958-61. These 
facts alone would disqualify him, however Arfa does a fine job of that on 
himself -- as we shall read!

In the Preface of the text quoted by (Serder Argic) we find, in Hassan Arfa's
own words (emphasis mine) [1]:

	"The reader will wonder how it is possible for an Iranian officer,
	 who for years FOUGHT AGAINST THE KURDS in the frontier districts to
	 write an objective and impartial account of their history, position
	 and aspirations, and not introduce a bias in favor of his own
	 country which includes a Kurdish minority about one million strong"

	 He...has restricted himself to an account of known and undeniable
	 historical facts."

We shall see!

We were fed the following foolishness:

[(*] Source: Hassan Arfa, "The Kurds," (London, 1968), pp. 25-26.
[(*]  
[(*] "When the Russian armies invaded Turkey after the Sarikamish disaster 
[(*]  of 1914, their columns were preceded by battalions of irregular 
[(*]  Armenian volunteers, both from the Caucasus and from Turkey. One of 
[(*]  these was commanded by a certain Andranik, a blood-thirsty adventurer..
[(*]  These Armenian volunteers committed all kinds of excesses, more than  ^
                               ^                                            |
                               |                                            |
+---SELECTED DELETION HERE-----+                                            |
|                                                                           |
|  [(*]  six hundred thousand Kurds being killed between 1915 and 1916 in   |
|  [(*]  eastern vilayets of Turkey."                                       |
|                                       ^                                   |
|           +---------------------------|         +--SELECTED DELETION HERE-+
|           V                                     |
|   ENDING SELECTIVELY         +------------------+
|   DELETED (See Below)        |
|                              V
|
|  Let's next read what was purposely DELETED in the general area of this
|  quote pointed to above:
|
|       "...adventurer whom the author saw in 1920 promenading in Paris on
|        Champs-Elysees clad in the traditional Caucasian cossack dress and
|        accompanied by two bodyguards armed to the teeth. He had come to
|        take part in the Paris Peace Conference on behalf of Armenia, but
|        was killed a few months later by regular Armenian forces while trying
|        to seize power in that country. [*] Arfa footnote.
|
| 
|  Totally inaccurate !!!!!! General Antranik died in Fresno, California in 
|  1927 !!! He is buried in Paris, France. So much for "undeniable historical
|  facts". Regarding the Arfa footnote [*], Arfa quotes these "facts" from 
|  another book he wrote entitled _Under Five Shahs_, Hassan Arfa, London,
|  1964, page 122. Hmm..two books with one total inaacuracy!
|
+--------------------------------+
                                 |
                                 V

Continuing...let's insert what Turkish Genocide Apology DIDN'T EVEN HAVE THE
COURAGE TO PROVIDE INCLUDE IN THE QUOTE !!!! 

       "...volunteers, IN ORDER TO AVENGE THEIR COMPATRIOTS WHO HAD BEEN
        MASSACRED BY THE KURDS..."

And to finish the paragraph off:

       "...eastern vilayets of Turkey. In this way the region became seriously
        depopulated, as MORE THAN SEVEN HUNDRED THOUSAND ARMENIAN HAD BEEN
        DEPORTED IN 1915-1916 TO THE SOUTHERN OTTOMAN PROVINCES -- JAZIRAH,
        MOSUL, HALEP, AND ANTAKIYAH -- MOST OF THEN DYING FROM HUNGER OR
        EXPOSURE OR BEING KILLED BY THE KURDS AND ARABS."

Not even a mention of who [Turkish government] ordered the deportation, and
not a mention of even any Turkish involvement -- No wonder he was the Iranian
Ambassador to Turkey.

While Turkish Genocide Apology feels as though Arfa is a good reference, let's
quote from page 59:

       "The population of these districts is entirely composed of Azeri --
        that is, Turkish-speaking -- Shia Iranians, whose customs, dress,
        speech, physical appearance, creed and political outlook, differ
        completely from that of the Kurds, the latter being warlike and often
        predatory tribesman, the former peace-loving cultivators.

So much for the "facts".

Just down on the same page there is a description of how in 1921, Arfa 
gathered several Azeri "tribes" together and fought against the Kurds of the 
Mahabad area. Just imagine what Arfa did to the 1946 Mahabad Kurdish Republic!

           - - - Turkish-Suggested Reference - - -

[1] Source: Hassan Arfa, "The Kurds," (London, 1968), pp. 25-26.

-- 
David Davidian dbd@urartu.sdpa.org "It has been ever thus in all things, son, 
SDPA Center for Regional Studies    Whatever we thrash we give to the wind, 
P.O. Box 382761                     We too have been blown by the world's wind
Cambridge, MA 02238                 The chaff is gone but the grain remains." 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna