From: nestabro@nova.gmi.edu (Noel Estabrook)
Subject: Re: Returning to secular music
Organization: GMI Engineering&Management Institute, Flint, MI
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:43:24 GMT

danielg@med.unc.edu (Daniel G. Sinclair) writes:

>In article <1992Dec11.173416.25963@galileo.physics.arizona.edu> krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Ted Krueger) writes:
>Wow, what a major bummer.  Sorry to be nosy, but I didn't quite catch the
>description of the 'unchristian' activity.  Was it reading sf/fantasy?  Or
>something really unmentionable like going to secular concerts or *gasp*
>dancing?  Being in leadership is kinda funny.  Somehow you are expected to
>keep up a certain image as to not offend nobody. 
I think this is as it should be when in leadership.  Scripture says 
elders are to be above reproach.  If a certain number consider a certain
act reproachful, then, because of our freedom, we should feel free to
refrain from it.

>dancing bone).  But I ask you, what kind of message do we really give them
>by being legalistic and prudish?

Hmmm, prudish.  Be holy just as I am Holy, says the Lord.  If that's 
being legalistic and prudish, so be it.  It always amazes me that (although
they condemn people who practice a more "button-down" Christianity as 
being legalistic and prudish) many of the non-button-down type do the 
exact same thing to those who follow a different path.  Interesting.

Sometimes I like to say, 'yeah, I want
>to show them that as a Christian you can love God, be pure (they can tell
>by my speech and kindness), and still be free from 'rules and regs'
>Christianity.  They've seen enough fundies, so they know that 'Christians'
>don't drink, don't cuss, and don't chew.  Maybe they would be changed by
>seeing freedom.'

Changed by your freedom to drink, cuss and chew?  Yeah, I have the freedom
to do those things, but I'm not sure that represents a changed life to the
world.  Scripture tells us we are "new creations".  Can a new creation
continue in the same things done before that creation?

Also, what is being free from "rules and regs" supposed to be.  I heard a
saying once (in fact, I'm gonna put it in my sig for a while) that 
freedom isn't the ability to do what you want, it's the responsibility to
do what you ought.  God put those "rules and regs" in Scripture for us to
follow in order to attain to a holy life, not to make us legalistic.  I
agree, if you follow "rules" just to be following them, then that is
legalism and wrong.  If, howevr, you follow them because you love God
and want to please Him by doing what he commands of us, then that is
far from legalism.  John MacArthur had a wonderful tape series on this
back in the severnties that I just listened to a couple of weeks ago.  He
has an insight into the word that is amazing.

My desire is for my life to be such that NO one in the world can say, "yeah,
right, he's a Christian, look, he does so and so".  It is pursuit of being
blameless.  And if someone in the world rejects the message of Christ (not
me) because I am following the Word of God, then that is not my 
responsibility, it is theirs.

>*don't* want to be part of stale Christian culture (the old one - I really
>belive that a new Christian culture is sweeping in to replace the old)

Again, just because somebody dresses in a suit and tie and keeps himself
looking neat makes him stale?  and his Christianity stale?  Come on.

BTW, I myself am not a bastion of neat grooming habits.  My hair is 
considered long by most and I quite often teach my Sunday school class
(young marrieds) wearing jeans.  However, if the leadership came to me
and said they thought I should look a little better to teach, I would
obey their request because they have authority over me.  I don't
consider them stale just because they wear suits.  You talk about 
judgmental...

>	2. what activities should leadership refrain from?

Anything that would cause believers under that leadership to stumble.
In a large congregation, there could be significant amount of believers
who stumble over many things (secular music, drinking, etc).  As a 
leader accountable for the training of those believers, we are under
obligation to remove those things from our life that may cause others
to stumble, not out of legalism or begrudgement, but, as Paul says, "so
that I may win more to Christ".  Once they've been won, then let the
Spirit lead them, but don't give them something to stumble over before
they're mature enough to handle it.

>	3. what sort of image should we portray? (to drink or not to
>	drink.  to dance or not to dance.  to wear nice clothes or not
>	to.)

Again, see above.

>	4. does anyone else see the new culture rising?

Not really.  Believers are always going to shine a little light.  In the
60's, the "hippies" got their Jesus communes together and they collapsed
because of exercising too much freedom and not exercising enough control.

>Respectfully and full of hope,

Ditto.

--
Noel Estabrook			|	Knowledge without action is like
nestabro@nova.gmi.edu         --|--     snow on a hot stove.
Instructional Design & Tech.    |     
Michigan State University       |               Romans 12:2
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian