From: apctrc!znpt01@uunet.UU.NET (Norman P. Tracy)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
Subject: mail order ethics, was Re: mail order
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 17:25:25 GMT
Organization: Amoco Production Company, Tulsa Research
	(queueing-rmail) id 173218.23096; Wed, 20 Jan 1993 17:32:18 EST
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Originator: znpt01@gpss43
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu


In article <1jh10rINNlns@uwm.edu>, widener!rmtc.paramax.com!garyp@uunet.UU.NET (Gary Palangian [RMTC/ISP]) writes:
> In article <1jeojbINN7pv@uwm.edu>, apctrc!znpt01@uunet.UU.NET (Norman P. Tracy) writes:
> |>
> |> Buying mail order after auditioning at a local
> |> dealer is unethical.
> |> -- 
> |> Norman Tracy
> |> 
> |> znpt01@trc.amoco.com
> 
> Hey Now,
> 
>     I'm not sure I agree with the last statement in Norman's post.  I
> think it is unethical (or at least a lousy thing to do) to not give
> your local dealer the chance to work with you to give you a workable
> price.  Mail order pricing gives one some insight into how much can
> be charged for a product while still making a profit.  When I
> was shopping for my Pioneer 301 LD, it was advertised everywhere
> for $499 + tax.  I auditioned it at my local High-End dealer and
> decided that I wanted one.  We talked about price and the dealer
> said he could get it down to $450 + tax.  I knew I could get it from
> Computability for $410 delivered.  I told him I'd give him $450 out
> the door and he wouldn't do it.  I walked.  If Computability can
> make a profit on the unit at $410 delivered then I'm pretty sure
> the dealer can make a profit at $425 + tax.  If the profit isn't
> big enough for him, than it is his choice to give away the deal,
> not mine.

Give away the deal?  More like give away his business.  In the above story
I strongly suspect Gary P. was askimg for a price below that dealer's cost.
Lacking a Computability's or Circuit City's mass buying power the small
retailer pays more at wholesale for that 301LD.  Now compare the overhead
of what it costs to keep a high-end audio salon/showroom/soundroom open to
do a low volume business vs. a warehouse in an industral park and a 800
number to do a national high volume business.  Cost it all out and there is
no way the local/regional 1 or 2 shop dealer can beat or even match the
rock bottom mail order price.

Now I'm not totally against mail order.  When the Sony TCD-D3 DATman was new
and not stocked locally and I needed it for an important recording date I
got it from J&R in New York.  But I did not waste a local dealers time checking
it out then save 10% via. mail order.

These comments must be kept in context, this is rec.audio.HIGH-END.  My point
was that to get the state-of-the-art results we audiophiles crave for our
systems you absolutely must audition the component.  I for one am interested
in nuances of quality auditions reveal and willing to pay for that service.
Additional services a local dealer can provide to justify a less than rock
bottom price:
 - Quickly comparing a variey of products in a price range.  For a given
   component type comparisons across price points to educate us on the
   price/quality trade offs.
 - Expert advice which includes not only opinions about sound quality but also
   first hand experience with companies distributors and service staffs.
 - Loans of equipment or conditional sales to allow home demos in my room
   and system.
 - Setup advice and/or in-home installation.  The results obtained can be
   critically effected by this issue esp. with tweekie hi-end equipment or
   complex home theatre systems.  This is critical for people who want hi-end
   results with out taking it up as a hobby.
 - The hi-end is full of small companies some of which make genuine advances
   to the state-of-the-art, others will be gone tomorrow.  A good experienced
   dealer will filter and buffer his customers from 'hot new company' syndrome.
 - When product arrives with shipping damage or other problems the dealer fights
   the shipper and I do not waste my time with yet another hassle.
> 
>     I see this type of negotiation as an integral part of
> the purchase process.  How many smart people buy a car without
> knowing how much it costs the dealer and using that info in
> making their purchase?  Why should audio gear be different?

Would that we could buy cars at some regional wholesale+2% center.  Too bad
that 300ZX Turbo I want is over UPS' weight limit.  Vital to this discussion
is: Are we dealing with Fords or Ferraris?

An even better analogy would be buying a sport coat from LL Bean then taking it
to your local upmarket mall's haute couture and expecting to get it altered
for free.
> 
> Party On...
> 
> 
> Gary P.
> 
-- 
Norman Tracy

znpt01@trc.amoco.com