From: I3150101@DBSTU1.RZ.TU-BS.DE (Benedikt Rosenau)
Subject:      Ee: A nation chosen by  GOD -- New Israel
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 22:08:58 MEZ
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Stephen types:

>>>Before GOD all are equal. Worldly governments are *not* instituted
>>>by GOD. Such are my beliefs, and this... that no sin is any worse
>>>than any other -- thus all of us, (the users and the used), are
>>>equally lacking before GOD.
>>
>>I think I recall a lot of Bible quotes which say that people are NOT equal
>>before god. Like the chosen people stuff. And I don't care about any
>>unprovable metaphysical pseudoequality that does not affect real life.

>God has chosen everyone BR, some don't accept. So be it.

Why don't you simply address the points? The OT speaks of a chose people
and excludes the rest. So your god has not chosen everyone.

(Deletions)


>Whether we call GOD: God, Allah, YHWH, Shiva, Vishnu, Brahma, or any
>other which suggests GOD of GODS, LORD of LORDS, CREATOR of CREATORs,
>or perhaps more appropriately -- the One beyond all human description...
>it matters little to me. Ditto for the Messiah.

The point is that they are gods, not one god. No *One* beyond human
description. Krishna for instance is one of many. Do you believe in
the Hindu Pantheon - or are you too _proud_?

Anyway, these gods demand different things, to the degree that one cannot
meet all their demands. So I expect you to bring evidence that I should
fulfill the demands of your god, and not for instance Krishna.

>>Prove me wrong. Or leave me alone.

>What's interesting is that you, (THOU), chose to respond to the posting
>rather than just going about your business. Why would anyone's faith
>in GOD matter in a Godless universe? Why do you bother responding?

Oh my. Belief in gods is a fact - as opposed to gods. And the fact that
there are believers has many effects, like for instance your posting to
alt.atheism, or Fundis trying to impose their belief on others.

>>The fancy point is, that you think that you have it all figured out.

>I've expressed (in no uncertain terms) my =belief=. I could be wrong,
>childish, deranged, manipulative, human, machine, etc.... I could be
>a different person tomorrow than today or yesterday. That's why I
>put my faith in GOD, rather than myself. Very different than saying
>"I know."

So, how come you think 'we have it all figured out'? Most atheists
would rather agree on that they have figured out things and can provide
communicable evidence for it.
That's not 'all', nor does it imply that we would not accept evidence
against it, if it could be provided somehow

(Deletion)

>Science as a method hinges on repetition. Recorded human history is
>only around 6000 years old. Good scientific estimates of the total
>number of homo sapiens to now is under 100 billion. In a seemingly
>infinite universe of space and time -- a negligible fraction of
>attempts have been made by us to ascertain anything. Believing
>in Science is like believing tomorrow will be the same as today.
>A theory at best.

I don't believe in science other than I think that it is a working tool.
And as opposed to religion, science makes some reliable predictions.
In other words, I see no other use for religion than as a tool to
control the minds of other people.

>It's kinda arrogant to assume that what's going on in our tiny bubble
>of space-time is the same as any other where-when, in my most humble
>opinion.

IMO; it's even more arrogant to choose one of the billion theories possible
without having any evidence for it, and then proceed to deny theories with
evidence for it.


>Thanks sincerely BR. I've never had anyone tell me I was preaching before.
>Do you think I have the calling?? (I think many people would say I'm too
>much of a smart-ass.)

The former is not exactly what I thought.
   Benedikt
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