HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 15:46:34 -0500 
From: Mark Alan Lang <Elistan+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
	<1993Jan22.034930.4849@sfu.ca>

On 22-Jan-93 in Re: Aes Sedai                
user Dave Knott@sfu.ca writes:
>	Actually, I've noticed that Jordan seems to really enjoy putting  
>references to known myths and legends into his work. It's quite neat to be  
>reading along and suddenly realize that there is an analogy between the  
>Wheel of Time world and our own.
> 
>For example: The name of Artur Hawkwing. His true name is Artur Paendrag  
>something-or-other. This is suspiciously close to the legend of King  
>Arthur (of Camelot), who was known as Arthur the Pendragon. There is sort  
>of a link here between England's greatest king and the greatest king in  
>the history of the Third Age.
>	Co-incidence? I think not.
> 
> 
>Dave Knott
>knott@sfu.ca

    There is another similarity between Artur Paendrag Tanreall and King
Arthur - after Arthur was killed be Mordred, we was taken on a boat to
some unknown location.  Legend has it that he is not dead and that in a
time of great need, he and his knights will return - although it seems
that the Seanchan aren't exactly helping the people of the continent
they came from.  Does the area of land that the story takes place in
have a name?  I can't remember it ever beeing called by one name - it's
always been the names of the different countries/kingdoms.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Mark Lang                       |  ml5t+@andrew.cmu.edu            |
|  elistan+@cmu.edu                |  elistan@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu  |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: steevesm@woods.ulowell.edu
Subject: Saidin/Saidar
Organization: University of Lowell
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:02:23 GMT

Has anyone mentioned that when the male and female halves of the One Power
are sort of visualized together, it makes the Ying-Yang symbol?

Just a thought.....

-darkelf
-----
"I have no brother, am like no brother;
 And this word "love", which the greybeards call divine,
 Be resident in men like one another
 And not in me.  I am myself alone."
	-Gloucester, Henry VI Pt. 3
-----
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jpark2@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (John J Park)
Subject: Farmer
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 03:12:57 GMT

And to think, I was going to track down the rest of that Riverworld series.

My thnax.
From: expert@diku.dk (Stephan Grubbe)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Any GOOD sf-magazines/bookclubs?
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:05:59 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen

I'm a big fan of Isaac Asimov and I have recently started reading his early
work. It seems that he used to get his work published via magazines. My
question is if such GOOD magazine still exist and if not does there exist a
sort of bookclub specially for sf?


thanks for any help


   stephan (expert@diku.dk)
From: chrismg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (christian gadeken)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
Date: 27 Jan 1993 03:37:47 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: dopey.cc.utexas.edu

In article <cfNQIh200Uh707Mq4P@andrew.cmu.edu> Mark Alan Lang <Elistan+@CMU.EDU> writes:
>
>    I have a question about an event in the fourth book.  In Alcair Dal,
>Rand planned to reveal himself as the Car'a'carn.  However, Couladin
>somehow gets the two tatoos and claims that he is the Car'a'carn. 
>However, acording to prophecy, once the Dragon proclaims himself, there
>will be no more False Dragons.  If this means that Couladin is not a
>False Dragon, just what is he?
>
A dupe of Asmodean's and/or Lanfear's.


-- 
			C h r i s t i a n  G a d e k e n

Yakumo: "But I really did destroy a monster in Hong Kong!
Saru  : "Ahem, ahem"
Yakumo: "Saru, do you believe me?"
Saru  : "Where's my Hong Kong souvenir?"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: uphrrmk@gemini.oscs.montana.edu (Jack Coyote)
Subject: Brin: Galactic Library
Reply-To: uphrrmk@terra.oscs.montana.edu (Jack Coyote)
Organization: Never Had It, Never Will
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:52:06 GMT

In rec.arts.sf.written, brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes:
>
>The key to this, either way, is not that there would be everything in
>the Earth library or any other.  It's the simple fact that unless the whole
>of science and study is done differently, there would be summary works
>written about every planet ever charted, every species studied, every
>technology used or developed.   Storing that collection of summary works,
>even if each were encyclopedic in size, is possible with today's technology
>and should be easy with future technology.
>

  As was alluded to throughout the series (esp. _The Uplift War_). Having
Googolbytes of data isn't enough -- you need to know how to use it.  The
bottleneck seems to be trained Reference Librarians (a most valuable asset
even in our relatively limited present), and to a lesser extent, the processing
power to run hideously complex AI Librarians.

 Also of note is the tanstaafl principle. Just 'cause they COULD give us all
knowledge, don't mean they're GONNA.  Earth is mentioned as being in debt for
what they have, they may not be able to afford the royalties.

-- 
"Pound for pound, lame puns are your best entertainment value." -- Gogo Dodo
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: duzan@buster.cis.udel.edu (Gary D. Duzan)
Subject: Re: Tolkien's (and Donaldson's) style (was Re: writing Styles)
Organization: Your Organization Could Be Here!
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 00:24:33 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.205949.3283@reed.edu> jkiparsk@reed.edu (Jonathan Kiparsky) writes:
=>
=>If you consider that Tolkien was trying to create myths and folk tales,  I
=>think the detail really makes the books work. The story feels like a part of 
=>a whole mythos, rather than a simple start-to-finish-that's-the-story. 

   Indeed. Tolkien's real baby was not The Hobbit or The Lord of the
Rings; it was The Silmarillion. TH and TLotR represent only the end of
the third age of the world. The whole history of the world was
developed in the mind of JRRT through most of his life.  Also, keep in
mind that Tolkien was a University professor, and much of the
development of Middle Earth was an academic excercise. Tolkien wanted
to compile and publish The Silmarillion, but it was obvious that it
wouldn't have much mass appeal, so he published TH and TLotR.
   Overall, Tolkien seems to delight in developing conflict between
good/beauty/nature and evil/destruction/technology, and does it well,
primarily due to the fact that he believes in it. The poetry is meant
to emphasize the beauty aspect of Tolkien's world. Anyone who reads
Tolkien expecting a fantasy-action-adventure is likely to be
disappointed. It is art.

                                        Gary Duzan
                                        Time  Lord
                                    Third Regeneration
                                        Elf Friend



-- 
                             duzan@cis.udel.edu
   _o_                       ------------------                         _o_
 [|o o|]       Virtual Reality? No thanks, I've already got one.      [|o o|]
  |_O_|       Disclaimer: I have no idea what I am talking about.      |_O_|
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup)
Subject: Re: PIERS ANTHONYS XANTH BOOKS????????
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:20:02 GMT

In article <C182LC.2z0@naz.edu> krhill@naz.edu (Kenneth R. Hill) writes:
>[list of 15 Xanth books]
>
>Just one comment if #1 was the only good one, then how come the 
>printed 14 more?  Could it be that a lot of people actually like them?

OK, now. Repeat after me (2 times at least):

	"lot of people like"
	does NOT equate
	"good"

It may equate popular (even probably does - kind of the definition, right?)
but it does not necessarily equate or even imply 'good'. You can also
make a case that it implies intertaining, but does intertaining imply
'good'? Or does it need something more to make it good - that special
something, which notably the Xanth books hasn't got?

Greetings,
--Mike

PS: Sure, I read them, too. The first half, that is. When pressed for 
    entertainment for an hour or so, I might even reread one of them.
    But they aren't good stories.

-- 
#include <std-disclm.h>--"... and there is a small flaw in my character."---
Real Life: Michael Christian Heide Qvortrup      A Dane         ETH, Zuerich
e-mail   : qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch                  abroad         Switzerland
Institut fuer wissenschaftliches Rechnen  /  Inst. of Scientific Computation
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: tomd@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Tom Davidson)
Subject: Re: Pern/Computers, and DOS
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin, Texas
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:04:05 GMT

sl7sg@cc.usu.edu writes:
>	Anyhow, I just finished reading the last pern book, and I was hit with
>something odd.  Did you notice that when the AI told Jarom (sp?) to run a
>program onboard the ship, to turn the shields on (during a swarm of thread,
>still in space) it said run DESTROY.EXE
>	Don't you think that is odd, you would have thought they would have
>gotten away from dos, by that timeperiod...(at least the .exe extension).
>	also, I wonder what type of computer Anne Mccaffery uses?   :)


>		-Lynx
>		Brandon

Well I guess thats how the colony got lost in the first place, relying on DOS
to navigate your starship is a sure recipe for disaster as we all know.
They probably got hit with the 'thread' virus and lunched all the data on
the hard drive, the rest is just a series of novels...   :)
From: phydeaux@guru.med.cornell.edu (Dave Weingart)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Vernor Vinge's new book...
Date: 28 Jan 1993 15:58:37 GMT
Organization: CUMC
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: guru.med.cornell.edu

Having finally finished it (hey, so it took me 2 days...give me a break),
I can say I LIKED IT!

The known.net.news was occasionally distracting (but a neat way to put
in the "Now tell us, Professor..." bits that would give us the required
background.

I wonder what someone with no exposure to the net would have thought,
though?

Death to Vermin

-- 
73 de David Weingart  KB2CWF    In the event I am captured or killed, the
phydeaux@cumc.cornell.edu       Cornell University Medical College and the
phydeaux@guru.med.cornell.edu   Department of Academic Computing will disavow
phydeaux@src4src.linet.org      any knowledge of my opinions.
From: vferguson@subway.enet.dec.com (Virginia Ferguson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: The the great ongoing misogyny/misandry discussion
Date: 24 Jan 93 13:41:36 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


Alexandra_Haropulos.ADFMcLean_CSD@XEROX.COM writes...

>It appears that SFantasy in particular is veering off into some rather 'radical
>feminist' directions. I no longer read much new Anne McCaffrey or Marion Zimmer
>Bradley, because I have gotten a bit tired of listening to repeated tirades on
>how men are testosterone-poisoned, irresponsible, abusers of all that is good
>in the universe (i.e., The Mother Goddess and her many crafts, which appear to
>consist primarily of herbal medicine, weaving, natural childbirth and crystal
>hugging/singing/worshipping/younameit)...These authors are MAN HATERS! As well

I wouldn't classify Anne McCaffrey as a "radical feminist" writer.  In fact, I
find most of her female characters downright disturbing.  They marry much older
men (father figures) and then set about joyfully popping out a baby a year,
sometimes against the husbands wishes; they're shrill and shrewish and overly
concerned with what people think.  Some of her most vicious villians have been
women; the males are after power but the women are out for revenge.  This isn't
my idea of feminist writing.

My opinion is based on having read all the Pern books and the Pegasus/Rowan
books; maybe something's different in her other series?

Ginny
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: sa121@cl.cam.ac.uk (S. Arrowsmith)
Subject: Re: Pern/Computers, and DOS
Reply-To: SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk
Organization: Glad to be Sad
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:36:38 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.012023.63037@cc.usu.edu> sl7sg@cc.usu.edu writes:
>
>	Anyhow, I just finished reading the last pern book, and I was hit with
>something odd.  Did you notice that when the AI told Jarom (sp?) to run a
                                                      Jaxom

>program onboard the ship, to turn the shields on (during a swarm of thread,
>still in space) it said run DESTROY.EXE
>
My first assumption was that it was running VMS (tells you something
about the computing I do) -- seeing as DEC have put it on an Alpha 
architecture, it looks like we're stuck with the damn thing for a 
little while yet....

>	also, I wonder what type of computer Anne Mccaffery uses?   :)
>
Well, she says she's got a random dragon-name generator, and if anyone
could be bothered programming that on a Mac, I'd be most surprised....

--
\S
SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk | "Internet is so big, so powerful and pointless that for
        ___         |  some people it is a complete substitute for life."
        \X/         |     -- Andrew Brown, The Independent
Organization: Sophomore, Mathematics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 08:12:05 -0500 
From: Michael P Collins <mc7f+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Memory,Sorrow and Thorn
Distribution: world

Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.written: 23-Jan-93 Memory,Sorrow and
Thorn by Jeffrey K Seidel@cup.por 
> have any information on it? Did something happen to Tad Williams?

Lots of things.  Simultaneously.  All over the country.

Seriously, tho.  It [3rd book] should be coming out in march.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: darknite@camelot.bradley.edu (John S. Novak III)
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
Keywords: Sedai, Templar, Masonry
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 24 Jan 93 20:55:39 GMT

In <1993Jan24.180034.29913@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:

^L

>>9. There are darkfriends scattered just EVERYWHERE including the darned
>>tinkers.
>>The song of the Tinkers is the song of Saidin which is also the song of
>>the treebrothers? (Well, maybe).  Rand has to join the tinks with the
>>aiels and get 'em humming the true song/way of the leaf. (You will know it
>>luke, er perrin, er rand, when you hear it).

>Unless there *is* no song.  (After all, our glimpse at their history
>suggested that there was no song, as the Tinkers think of it, at the time.)
>Maybe the search is the important thing -- that they tink and therefore
>they are.

'They tink, and therefore they are'...?
<Groan>

Another possibility is that the song once belonged to the Nim,
who were mentioned once in TSR.  I also had the impression that
the green Man from TEotW was a Nim.  Possibly the last.


--
"E Pluribus Dunsel"
          -Robert A. Crawford, 10-24-91
John S. Novak, III		darknite@camelot.bradley.edu
From: max@west.darkside.com (Erik Max Francis)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Niven/Pournelle, continued
Date: 24 Jan 93 20:54:00 GMT
Organization: The Dark Side of the Moon +1 408 245 SPAM

mvp@netcom.com (Mike Van Pelt) writes:

> I didn't think of them because I was thinking of Niven's sentient
> aliens... Are grendels sentient?  This wasn't entirely clear, but
> the seemed to be on the non-sentient side of the line, though
> maybe pretty close to the line.

It's pointed out in _The Legacy of Hereot_ that the grendels are smart, 
but they're not as intelligent as we are.  Their activities are governed 
by a set of "vectors" -- if a grendel is hungry, it gets a vector 
pointing toward food.  When the vector gets long enough, it acts.

As far as being sentient, that depends on what you mean.  Most people 
seem to use the terms _sentient_ and _intelligent_ in the same context, 
but I've never seen them defined that way.  _Webster's College 
Dictionary_, for instance, defines _sentient_ as "having the power of 
perception by the senses; conscious" or "characterized by sensation and 
consciousness."  Does this mean conscious, or self-aware, and is there a 
distinction?

And Lord knows Star Trek has used the word _sentient_ in so many 
different contexts that they're no help . . .


Erik Max Francis  -)(-  ..!apple!uuwest!max  -)(-  max@west.darkside.com   __
USMail: 1070 Oakmont Dr. #1; San Jose, CA  95117  ICBM: 37 20 N 121 53 W  /  \
Like strategic games of interstellar conquest? . . . Ask about UNIVERSE!  \__/
-)(- Omnia quia sunt, lumina sunt; all things that are, are lights. -)(-
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian)
Subject: Re: Canadian Slave Magic
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 21:41:14 GMT

I have no idea whether the story I told in Greenmagic constitutes a
distinctly "Canadian subgenre" of fantasy...I worked out the idea in '88 when
Del Rey Books saw that SF was losing ground to fantasy and my editor
suggested I try a fantasy novel. So I pitched Lester Del Rey on a kind of
"anti-fantasy" in which the usual premises of [medieval-European] fantasy go
belly-up: the wizards are creepy old jerks, the military aristocrats are
low-tech Hell's Angels, and maintaining lawnorder is a messy job.

The conflict between strong and weak cultures isn't automatically Canadian,
although Canada is usually figuring out how to survive another night in bed
with the elephant. But it gave me a chance to explore a couple of interesting
cultures and see how they might deal with one another--while perhaps nudging
fantasy readers into wondering about some of their favorite stock responses.

For what it's worth, Cantarea--the setting of Greenmagic--is west-central
Alberta and the Rocky Mountains around Jasper, in a parallel world where
magic works. The sequel, Redmagic, is now under way: it shows another
cultural conflict, between Aztec-descended trader-warriors living in a
parallel southern California, Irish-descended farmers in the SF Bay Area, and
a very uneasy alliance of my Cantareans and Badakhar...I'm having fun with
it.

Does this answer the original question?


--
Crawford Kilian   Communications Department   Capilano College
North Vancouver BC Canada V7J 3H5
Usenet: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca
Internet: ckilian@first.etc.bc.ca
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:44:39 EST
From: <CSD108@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
 <1993Jan24.180034.29913@netcom.com> <darknite.727908939@camelot>
 <1993Jan25.183058.21079@cc.gatech.edu> <1993Jan26.090024.1@woods.ulowell.edu>


In article <1993Jan26.090024.1@woods.ulowell.edu>, steevesm@woods.ulowell.edu
says:
>
>As for the Forsaken, there are (or was) thirteen of them.  The tallys are:
>
>                2 killed at the Eye of the World
>                Lanfear still roaming free
>                One killed (?) in the Stone of Tear
>                One caught and "gentled" (sorta) by Rand to teach him how
>                   to use the one power.
>                One playing lovebird with Morgase
>                One got her butt whipped by Nynaeve when they raided that
>                   hall-thingy in the last book.
>
>Those are all I can recall at this time....

2 at end of EOTW - Aginor and Balthamel
One Rand caught - Asmodean
One with Morgase - Rahvin (?)
Butt-whipped by Nynaeve - Moghedien (sp?)
One killed in Tear - Ishamael (?)

Sammael, I think is running around in Illian.
And if I can remember right, Moiraine nailed Belal with balefire (currently
in the process of re-reading The Dragon Reborn- that part's coming up)

--Craig D.

_______________________________________________________________________
|  Trouble with Tribbles? Try  |  Internet: CSD108@psuvm.psu.edu      |
|       - N E R P S ! -        |  Bitnet  : CSD108@psuvm              |
|        For Tribbles          |  "668: Neighbor of the Beast"        |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: darknite@camelot.bradley.edu (John S. Novak III)
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 27 Jan 93 07:30:24 GMT

In <cfNQIh200Uh707Mq4P@andrew.cmu.edu> Mark Alan Lang <Elistan+@CMU.EDU> writes:


>    I have a question about an event in the fourth book.  In Alcair Dal,
>Rand planned to reveal himself as the Car'a'carn.  However, Couladin
>somehow gets the two tatoos and claims that he is the Car'a'carn. 
>However, acording to prophecy, once the Dragon proclaims himself, there
>will be no more False Dragons.  If this means that Couladin is not a
>False Dragon, just what is he?

Firstly, no one believed him.  Not after Rand finished with him.
So even though he was 'proclaimed' it had no lasting effect-- no
banners flocked to him, no armies grew, no nothing.

Secondly, he wasn't a false Dragon.  He was a false Car'a'carn...

Thirdly, there were Forsaken running all about, trying to fuddle
the prophetic statements.  They may have broken the letter of the
prophecies, but certainly not the spirit.


--
"E Pluribus Dunsel"
          -Robert A. Crawford, 10-24-91
John S. Novak, III		darknite@camelot.bradley.edu
From: fscem1@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:05:05 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks


	With regards to the lost song of the Tinkers...would
this correlate to the song that the gypsies and travelling
people of our world are supposedly searching for - the llano?
I always kind of thought it did...
	I'm going to have to go back and reread all of these
books.  I keep seeing details in these discussions that I
totally missed.  *grin*  What a pity.

Cheers, 
Catie
fscem1@acad3.alaska.edu
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Best "Suspension of Disbelief"
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:43:10 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)

In article <105672@netnews.upenn.edu>, weemba@sagi (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>Robert Silverberg "The Ascenion Solution" in FOUNDATION'S FRIENDS was one
>of the best jokes in this department I have ever come across.  [...]

For the record, that's "The Asenion Solution".  Part of the humor was,
as I mentioned, the games Silverberg played with suspension of disbelief.
Another part concerns the genesis of Isaac Asimov THE GODS THEMSELVES;
I feel like subtitling the story "Robert's Revenge-Thppt!".

Somebody else may have to tell the story correctly, but it went something
like Silverberg brought up plutonium-186 in conversation, Asimov made fun
of such a ridiculous scientific blunder, and then insulted Silverberg by
saying don't worry about it, a Real(TM) SCIENCE Fiction Writer (as in IA
but not RS) can handle plutonium-186, no problem, and Asimov went on to
write the award-winning TGT, much to his own surprise.

Silverberg took the basic initial premise of the first part of TGT, and
came up with an alternate and devastatingly stupid solution, all within
the Asimov frame.  Who needs Real(TM) SCIENCE Fiction Writers anyway?
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)