HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jclander@maestro.mitre.org (Julian C. Lander)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: wearing symbols
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:18:20 GMT
Reply-To: jclander@maestro.mitre.org (Julian C. Lander)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, Va

To add another data point to the discussion of the mailing list
of International Male, my father is apparently on it.  To the
best of my knowledge, he is exclusively straight.  (Were he
not, I can't imagine that he would hide it.  He's unmarried--
divorced my mother long ago--and no one would care.  I can't
imagine any ways in which his life would change were the gender
of his sexual partners to change; he has no investment in
heterosexuality, if you know what I mean.)

My father is also relentlessly interested in fashion.  What
other daddies (note the lower-case "d", please) would wear
bikini briefs?  (And he's not that careful of his body--
I come from a long line of fat people on both sides.)  I
suspect that IM interests him for the fashions, which may
or may not be like reading _Playboy_ for the articles (well,
I did--Daddy subscribes to that, too).

By the way, I get IM, and have no interest whatsoever in it--
neither the fashions nor the models attract me.

Julian C. Lander
The MITRE Corporation
jclander@mitre.org

This is a disclaimer.  Has MITRE even heard of IM?
From: aag@aber.ac.uk (Angela Gilham)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:42:34 GMT
	<1992Aug20.012058.5470@microsoft.com>
	<1992Aug20.051659.29143@spdcc.com>
Organization: Computer Science, University of Wales, Aberystwyth

In article <1992Aug20.051659.29143@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com 
(Steve Dyer) writes:
   In article <1992Aug20.012058.5470@microsoft.com>
   bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:
   >Mlle dyer, mlle hughes, & mlle twpierce:

   Oh, my, what an insult.

No. It was a compliment, and therefore untrue!

   >I had no idea that you three debutantes were so incestuously 
   >interconnected. Thank you for settling a bet for me, though, 
   >and making me $10 richer.  
   >I bet another masc. gay friend that none of the net queens on
   >soc.motss would be able to offer coherent counterarguments.  He
   >believed, however, that you would be able to contain yourselves 
   >and post something of value.  

I sincerely hope you donated it to HIV/AIDS research . . . although I
sadly fear I am hoping too much.

   >Oh, and as for you three ladies and me "on top":  
   >There isn't a nickel's worth of difference between any of you and an
   >actual woman; (of course there isn't; you like it that way).

   A *VERY* *HAIRY* *BALD* woman with a beard.

Hey guys, he's being complimentary again . . . I *do* *hope* Mr
(goddess, what a misuse of an honorific) Sarver, that you're not
making invidious comparisons (comparisons are always odious) between
the three above-mentioned gentlemen and a woman with the intent of
implying that *womanly* or *woman* is somehow inferior . . . 

   >Given the choice, I'd still opt for a real lady instead of 
   >any of you three "wannabe's".  Even I have *some* standards.

   So do we, hon.  Crawl back under your rock.  By the way, you're
   not given to placing personal ads, are you?

No real lady would have you. We have *much* higher standards than
that. When deigning to sleep with the male of the species, we 
prefer it to be human.

   Unspeakably vile indeed...

Ang

--
Angela Gilham. Dept of Computer Science | "You walked out of my front door,
University of Wales, Penglais,          | I wasn't then, but now I'm sure;
Aberystwyth. SY23 3BZ. UK               | I need to be at least 2,000 miles 
aag@aber.ac.uk      +44 970 622433      | away from you!"  --- Erasure
From: apm@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Andrew Merritt)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:54:02 GMT
Subject: Re: Time to start secular scouts
Organization: Hewlett-Packard ISG-SBU-PWD, UK.
Newsgroups: soc.motss

lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>Whenever the scouting issue is brought up they (BSA supporters) always
>respond by saying that we should start our own. So why not do it? If its
>better than the boyscouts it will win out in the long run. 
>
In the UK and other European countries there is an organisation called the
Woodcraft Folk, about which I know little except that it is non-religious and
vaguely socialist (which probably means something different here from the
US) in outlook.  I believe it has been going for a few decades.  Is there a
branch in the US?  Does it have a policy on sexual orientation?

(I was a Scout, and was always put off by the twee-ness of the Woodcraft Folk
name, but they seem to do much the same things as Scouts and Guides without
the religious angle).

Andrew
From: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: gay vegetarians anonymous (was, be kind to small furry animals)
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:20:40 GMT
Reply-To: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH


In a previous article, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) says:

>
>In article <1992Aug19.215833.10537@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu
>(Nelson Minar) writes:
>
>>If you're actually keeping score - here's my rule. It's very simple.
>>If it wiggled, I won't eat it.
>
>>I'm serious.
>
>Will you wear on your feet or (better yet) on your whole
>body the skin of once-wigglies whose flesh (cooked or raw)
>you would not eat?
>
>Or are you anti-leather? :-)

Remember earlier this year, when the group who protests against killing of 
little animals for fur coats by throwing paint on fur coats started doing
the same to leather outfits?

Can they say "By-product"?

;-)


>
>-- 
>Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
>Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
>NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
>Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
>
-- 
*...your Friendly Neighborhood Atheist // "Peter...PETER!!  I can see    *
*      the KelleyMan:Kelley L. Miller // your house from here!"          *    
*                  ae642@yfn.ysu.edu // Jesus Christ, from the cross     *
****************Know God...No peace.  No God...Know peace.****************
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jefu@akbar.nmt.edu (Jeff Putnam)
Subject: Re: Gay bull
Organization: New Mexico Institute of Mining & Technology
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 12:55:33 GMT

In article <1365@dosbears> drp@dosbears.UUCP (David R. Preston)  
writes:
> In article <15697@star.cs.vu.nl> fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!) writes:
> >I could always learn Swahili.

> It may not be common on motss, but a lot of people speak it
> since it is the lingua franca of Africa. When I took a class
> in C programming, the instructor, who was trying to teach it
> to a bunch of people who had only previously seen BASIC, said
> something like "I know this looks like Swahili now, but it will
> make sense soon." An African student got a kind of puzzled look
> on his face, held up his hand, and said "But Swahili's not very
> hard?!" It was a while before the class could proceed....

I've already seen one followup from someone who knows a bit
of (rusty) kiswahili, and I know a bit.  He's right though,
kiswahili isnt that hard - I didnt get any further than 
very simple stuff because I couldnt learn the vocabulary,
not because I couldnt learn the rules.  (The 8 noun classes
was a bit confusing though - but many common nouns were in
one of the classes which was used for foreigh words and such)

--
jefu <=> Jeff Putnam - New Mexico Tech <=> jefu@nmt.edu 
"Overturn the dominant paradigm"
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: Question about non-rights laws (OR:9 CO:2)
Organization: insert anything here
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:33:50 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.170741.23267@gordian.com> mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
>In article <1992Aug16.224618.12696@reed.edu>, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>> I have a brief memory of something in history, but I might be wrong.
>> Could a more knowledgable motsser provide details? I seem to remember
>> that in the 50s/60s some gay bars were being raided or shut down as
>> gathering places for people who committed sodomy, but that some high
>> court ruled that this harassment was a violation of the right to

>> can't find it now). Am I making this up?

>  I believe that you are thinking of the 1st amendment:

>                                AMENDMENT I
>
>   Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment  of  religion,  or
> 				      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


	Oh well that's where the problem is --- to those who hate,
we're not people.  So it doesn't apply to us.

	BBC
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Subject: Re: Why Benson Hedges #2 gay cigarette?
Organization: Militant Homosexual Lobby, Gay Lifestyle, Inc.
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 00:48:04 GMT

Bil Gonzalez (bgonzal@math.rutgers.edu) wrote:
 
> .... A few months later, when one of my friends
> got a job at a local convenience store, he told me that a lot of guys
> came in asking for the H&B DUL's.  He said that he could determine the
> sexual preferences of customers by the cigarettes they bought.

Do you suppose that I have a genetic predisposition
for the non-filtered Camels that I smoke?

I can't wait to hear how your [I-can-tell-by-the-way-
they-smoke] friend would diagnose my condition.

[Obvious deathwish aside.]

--jns
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: Introduction
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:37:50 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.022506.22041@wam.umd.edu> lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Lovegod) writes:
>Anyway, I should have seen it coming.  I'm a lot younger than most of you and  
>it's quite obvious that we may not have anything else in common but Cole Porter  
>and having sex with other guys.

Lose the Cole Porter and I'm with you.

>I am the future.  The future of men, the future of African-Americans, the  
>future of homosexuality.  You have the choice between reaching out to me or  
>ignoring me.  Either way, I'll survive ... you can believe that.

Wrongo.  You're only part of the future, same as you're only part of the
problem (and, just maybe) part of the solution.  Same as any of us.

And I'll believe it when I see it.  Come back when you're as old as Jess
and we'll see whether you're worth even one percent of him by then.

				Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: tal@Warren.MENTORG.COM (Tom Limoncelli)
Subject: Re: Prediction of the Republican National Convention
Organization: Mentor Graphics -- IC Group
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 18:52:20 GMT

In <1992Aug18.023458.28734@plts.uucp> tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli) writes:
>Tom Kean is a weenie.  (I believe I've said that to his face, at least
>once; so I don't have any problems saying it here).

I should explain this statement.  After Tom Kean was Governor of New
Jersey he became president of Drew University.  So, I had 18 months of
living under President Tom.  During that time, I met with him a couple
times, usually to beg him to stop something or start something. :-)
50% of the time it was a queer issue, 50% of the time it was related
to work on the "SGA Committee on Technology".

So, when I say he is a weenie, I mean it.

Tom
-- 
Tom Limoncelli -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work) -- tal@plts.uucp (play)
"Oh! I thought it was one of those useless demos of everything that
    a GUI builder could do." -Anonymous person watching demo of
         Solaris 2.0's graphical tool for managing NIS+
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Subject: Re: Introduction
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:49:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.114705.24351@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>
>>However, I really have to step in and state the obvious,
>>namely that *we* (the over-the-hill gang and those rapidly
>>approaching) are the wave of the future.
>
>From the point of view of the new wave just coming on shore,
>we are the beach, we are the bulwark against the future.
>There are bezillion paradoxes in all this, but it's one of
>the eternal truths, cutting across many cultures, that one
>generation pulls the one behind it into the future at the
>very same time as it blocks the path to the future.
>
>Another truth is that the wave we're talking about has
>continuity and discontinuity at the same time.  One
>generation flows seamlessly out of the past into the future.
>Both past and future are fictions, for only an infinitesimal
>present exists.  But the fictions are (better than most
>fictions) very real too, and they are as different as things
>can be, connectable with one another only by yet another
>kind of fiction.  Here's one such:


We are Queer Philosopher Surfers riding waves between generations,
vying to outdo each other with our conceptual surfing accessories.

"*I* remember the orginal stonewall <elegant sniff of distain>?"

"oh.  Hey, were you at the QN kiss in last night? We did a snap line
to the governor, he's a total pig!  I think I got on national TV."

"Pig? these guys are pussycats!  We used to get raided all the time,
and locked up and beaten..."

"Yeah, sure, tell me some more tired old bette davis stories, at least
you won't rant when you tell them pops, like anybody cares any more."

"You insufferable ignorant youth!"

"oh yeah?! Well, look at my BIG surf board!  you would have never DARED
to have a surf board this big, you're just jealous."

"OH?! Let me show you what to do with your surfboard!"

(scramble, thud, crush, slurp, moan grunt grunt grunt grunt, squeal)

"thanks pops, nobody's ever done that to my surfboard before."

"Care for a cigarette?"

"no way! I'm not bankrolling the tobacco companies who all support jesse
helms and ..."


And so it goes....


Ry Schwark
ry@usl.com

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Subject: memorial wishes
Followup-To: soc.motss
Summary: striking a balance
Organization: various and shifting
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 14:47:40 GMT

steve dyer's wishes are noted.  no one who knows *anything* about
steve would ever have thought of a teddy bear, but i would not 
necessarily have predicted such a strong anti-quilt feeling.

people vary enormously in how they approach the idea of memorials
to themselves.  some don't even want to think about it, some want
to control an awful lot from beyond the grave (i'm still rather 
angry with my dad for insisting that there be no memorial service
of any kind and *writing it into his will*, which i am legally
bound to execute.  he deprived us from having the kind of healing
experience that has been going on in soc.motss after rob's death).

jacques, who has been very near death and knew it, characteristically
had almost no instructions, leaving it to ann and me and elizabeth and
his parents to work out what suited us.  ok, he did ask me to get rid
of all his clothes before anyone else got to them, because he was
ashamed at having amassed so much, and such uninteresting, clothing.

ann helped to plan her memorial service, making sure that good people
were committed to the idea before she died, and she specifically asked
for some pieces of music (among them "my old kentucky home" and "just
a closer walk with thee", the latter because it was played at her
mother's funeral, when it sent ann and her father into paroxysms of
laughter and tears all at once - the family was inclined to laugh
hysterically at funerals anyway - and as much exultant trumpet music
as the organist could manage).  the organist added some of ann's
favorite hymns, plus "in the bleak midwinter", since ann had died in
the middle of a ferociously cold january, and wove it all into a
bizarre medley (we have since mourned for sam peebles, the organist,
who died of aids a while back).  

ann also asked that we would have a big party afterwards, with
lots of good food and people telling funny stories about her.
there were so many people packed into our house that this last
request was hard to satisfy; it was hard even to *move*.

and she asked that her ashes be made part of the garden, a small
task that jacques and i did when hopeful spring arrived several
months later.

i would like all of these things.  though i'd prefer a less formal
kind of memorial service, nowhere near a church and outside in the
open air in a marvelous garden if possible.  and in addition to the
funny stories about me, i'd like people to describe times when they
were just godawful *furious* with me, so that most of the guilt they
feel about their anger can be washed away.

and absolutely no teddy bears.  (ok, penguins or iguanas or otters, if
you have to have animals.)

arnold (reminded, alas, that it's time to update his will)


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Williams)
Subject: Well, life goes on....
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: 22 Aug 92 23:07:03 GMT

Well, folks, I gotta say this one takes the cake in my life.

I just came out to my father today--a man I never felt I could talk to
about anything other than cars when I was growing up.

He took it better than my mother did when I came out to her five years ago.

Mom and I are still trying to figure this one out.  8-)

--
 ________________ Alan Williams  vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu ___________________
 \/ A hypothetical paradox: What would happen in a battle between an         \/
    _Enterprise_ security team, who always get killed soon after appearing,
    and a squad of Imperial Stormtroopers, who can't hit the broad side of
    a planet?                 	--Tom Galloway
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Introduction
Date: 21 Aug 92 20:32:50 GMT
Organization: Eris's Restaurant

In article <1992Aug21.174447.20986@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>In article <k5dpbh7j@cck.coventry.ac.uk>
>idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>>Come back when you're as old as Jess and we'll see whether
>>you're worth even one percent of him by then.
>I don't want to seem ungrateful for the implied compliment,
>but ...

Aww, you spotted it! <smooch>

>Who'd want to be even 1% of a wizened old crow of 94?  Not
>even Jess!  And by then, probably Donald will be way too old
>for me.  I'll be gumming the Nelsons Minar, Johns Dorrance,
>and Sims Aberson of soc.lgb, circa 2029, urging them to
>shout sweet nothings directly into the ear trumpet.

Jess, I've just laughed for three minutes solid after reading
this.  The image is just too splendid.  I want to be there
when it happens.

				Kay

-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris)
Subject: Re: redefining masculinity
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 14:58:11 GMT

roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips) writes:
>norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris) writes:
>> roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips) writes:
>> >Oh, no, not me!  I *never* talk with my mouth full.
>> Full?? with only *two* inches?  Have you tried mouth stretching exercises?
>Diameter, darling.

Like I said...

-jeff
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: OR-9 text.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 22:36:38 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Aug20.183050.11740@lclark.edu>
  <rizzoe.150.714341141@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU>
  <1992Aug20.231929.8343@spdcc.com> <41760@ogicse.ogi.edu>

Mark Morrissey writes:
>If this measure passes,
>I intend to work to amend it to make it illegal for the state to do
>business with any entity which employs even one GLB person.  Bringing the
>state to a standstill may be the only way -- if this measure passes.  

This brings to mind that a good way to fight this bullshit would
be to point out to the "Average Voter" (whose tolerance I don't
trust very far) just how much of his TAX MONEY is going to have to
be spent on the **MYRIAD** court cases this proposition is going
to cause; an already busy court system will be strained to or
past the breaking point, and the state will be pounding millions
down this bigoted rathole.
 
() The whole problem with the world is that fools and
() fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser
() people so full of doubts.
()      -- Bertrand Russell
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:21:10 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.





> I have met many gay men, handsome, masculine, and closeted--and they will
> probably stay that way forever.  Why?  Because the once-a-year trip to a gay
> function or gay bar reinforces their fears of being surrounded by nelly,
> campy gays that are embarassing and fringe radicals.

/That paragraph is unspeakably vile.

Christ, what a weird selection of words.  I would be more concerned if
I weren't 100% convinced that what I said was true.  I have *met* these
guys, and they are real people.  Hell, I even dated some of them.
There is a whole, invisible chunk of gay men that won't come out because
they refuse to be identified with the intentional femininity and 
other bizarre practices that are prevalent among the fringe.



> Gay, masculine men who are happy being that way are threatening to
> feminine gays.  You threaten them.  It also disturbs feminine gays
> that a masc. gay man can move 'with the straight crowd'; you have
> betrayed the fem. gays by having close straight friends.

/Utter bullshit, but if you feel like continuing with the arm chair
/psychoanalysis, I think you might want to look at your motivations 
/here.  

I know my motivations.  



> Don't worry about it.  The problem is not with you.  It is with them.

/Fuck off.

My, hit a nerve here, didn't I? 


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly)
Subject: Re: Homosexual Privilege
Date: 14 Aug 92 02:38:58 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
	<1992Aug12.200205.8673@midway.uchicago.edu>

grendel@uhuru.uchicago.edu (Cliff Winnig) writes:
) ryerson.schwark writes
) > Boy, bend over and I will give so many inches of happy homo
) > privelege that you'll grunt like a pig.  :-)
)
) Grandmama, I'm shocked!  You didn't make that offer to the rest
) of us when we were at the .con! ;-)

Speak for yourself.  *Oink*, *oink!*  Ahem, *snap!*
________________
George V. Reilly   <GeorgeRe@Microsoft.Com>