HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rim@csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Bob McKay)
Subject: Re: Problems heating with wood
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:59:57 GMT

de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill) writes:

>Right.  A pellet stove could do that, but you probably don't want to buy a new
>stove and have to buy pelletized wood.  You might want to consider something
>like a kerosene or electric heater for the bedroom.  I've used kerosene
>heaters before--they put a lot of heat and don't smell too bad, but you need
>to consider the fire hazard.

The other thing to consider about kerosene heaters is that if they get too
far out of whack, they can put out a significant amount of CO - not enough
to worry about in living areas, but not ideal for a closed up bedroom where
you just might not wake up.
   Cheers
      Bob McKay

-- 
Bob McKay		   	Phone:	+61 6 268 8169	    fax: +61 6 268 8581
Dept. Computer Science		Internet:	rim@csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au
ADFA, Northcott Dve 		UUCP:...!uunet!munnari!csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au!rim
Campbell ACT 2600 AUSTRALIA	ARPA:	rim%csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: piety@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (Bob Piety)
Subject: Re: Problems heating with wood
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:54:01 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories Palo Alto,CA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

You might get better results by splitting the wood down to arm-size
(3"-4") to get hotter burning and the ability to add smaller
increments.  Your firebox seems small-- my Arrow's firebox is roughly
26" x 18" x 18" and enables me to heat 2000 sq ft with relative ease,
even in COLD (30 degree  :-) ) weather.

Be aware, however, that what is sold as "seasoned" wood, often is
marginally so and will burn MUCH hotter the following year.  Also,
splitting some of your wood into small pieces will provide you with
the kindling you need, as will rolled-up newspapers.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned a Monster Maul for splitting
wood.  It is a 15 lb, all-steel, maul with a very obtuse V head, and
costs about $20-25 and is guaranteed for life.  It either bounces off
the log you are trying to split or the two halfs of the log go
flying-- it does NOT get stuck!  But, it can also wear you out if the
wood grain is twisted.  I have great success splitting green oak and
madrone, though seasoned oak is tougher.


Bob                      ==================================================
piety@hpl.hp.com        | "By definition:                                  |
(415)857-4759  Voice    |  50% of the people have IQ's of less than 100!"  |
(415)857-2862  FAX       ==================================================
Palo Alto, California




Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: streuer_d@cubldr.colorado.edu
Subject: TOULOUSE GEESE
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 23:35:39 GMT

I really enjoy this group, glad I found it.

We don't have a large piece of land, but we are not in a town either.
Anyway, we raise geese, Toulouse, to be exact. Started with a sexed pair 
who have produced two separate broods.  We usually sell off the kids
after 4 months or so at a local livestock auction.  This year we went 
to the auction with four of the kids to sell.  When asked what we were selling
the auction owner asked if we had any (I can't rememeber which sex) male/
females.  We didn't know as we had not sexed them.  When settlement was
made on the sale, I had the buyer's name and she had ours.

Anyway, two weeks later our male goose disappeared.  Now, they have roamed
our rural development all summer and people were aware of them as they would
walk along the ditch.  All I can think of is that the buyer of the kids came
back to get they male.  (If I could only remember what sex of bird the
auctioneer said a buyer was looking for.)

We've looked in the fields and along the road for feathers to indicated he
may have been hit, but found nothing.  This was between the hours of 7:00a
and 3:00p and I'm not sure if a coyote would come down during the day.

Does anyone have any ideas as to what could have happened to our big guy?
Xref: sparky misc.rural:2458 soc.culture.usa:8306 talk.environment:4528
From: Jym Dyer <jym@mica.berkeley.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.rural,soc.culture.usa,talk.environment
Subject: Re: Possible return of gray wolf to Yellowstone National Park, U.S.A.
Date: 6 Nov 1992 22:06:54 GMT
Organization: The Naughty Peahen Party Line
	<1992Nov05.235553.2160@bigsky.dillon.mt.us>
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: jonr@bigsky.dillon.mt.us's message of Thu, 05 Nov 1992 23:55:53 GMT

> On, the other hand, if an animal comes on to their land
> and destroys their "livelihood" then they want who ever
> reintroduced the damage causer to be held responsible.

=o= A reintroduced wolf is not "the damage causer" for which
a reintroducer should be held responsible.  You are confusing
the _status_quo_ with the environment.  Damage is caused
because people are putting livestock in wolf habitat, and not
handling that habitat in an intelligent way.
    <_Jym_>
From: rmy@pyuxf.uucp (Robert Yaeger)
Subject: Re: Problems heating with wood
Organization: bcr.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 15:15:56 GMT

  
Problems heating with wood!?
  
All this talk of wood burning has me longing for those cold mornings in the
Berkshires, getting up and stoking the few remaining coals in the stove into
a roaring fire. Putting a pot of coffee on as the warmth slowly filled up the
room.
  
The memories of splitting and stacking wood in the cold, crisp air.
Coming inside when done, face flush and feeling alive.  Checking the stove,
tending to it like it was a child while Van Morrison played in the background.
  
There's nothing like heating with wood.
  
  
Bob
From: krause@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Mike Krause)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Problems heating with wood
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:00:59 GMT
Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA

To split wood the safest way, IMO, is to use a splitting wedge with a
sledge hammer.  There are a variety of wedges and a quick tap sets them
and a couple of strikes splits the wood.  Also, one only needs dirt underneath
where an axe or a maul would best be used on a wood service to avoid dulling
the blade portion.

To get a fire started, don't use paper.  Use pine or something similar in
small pieces.  One person I know splits pine into 2" wide pieces and then 
taps it with a sledge hammer to splinter the wood into pieces that will 
easily start.  One could also use twigs/branches and any variety of these
chemical starting chunks.  These products work great.  One small chunk will
start wood 3-4" wide piece of wood with no hassle at all.  I use them since
one doesn't need to blow on the wood or poke around that much to keep the 
fire going or get it started.  If the fire dies down, just throw one in and
place a couple of small pieces and one large one in and your set.  They
don't explode and take 10-20 minutes to burn.

As for keeping a fire going, it's really a matter of wood positioning and
proper air flow.  You may be stacking things too closely together or your
air intake is inadequate.  As for the mess, use a log carrier and an ash
tray to clean things up.  I find ash removal to be a pain, but is less so 
with a small bucket/tray to place it into for proper disposal outside once
there is no chance of fire.  If you really want low attendance fires and
less ash output, etc., then switch to a pellet stove since these can be 
loaded for 36-72 hour usage, produce less ash, and are lower in pollutants.
The older fireplace inserts are also less efficient and cause more pollution.
The next house I get, I'm going to install a pellet stove for a variety of
reasons including no logs because pellets are made out of scrap material,
lower cost - 1 ton of pellets which would burn continuously for 75 days
is generally less than the cost of a cord of oak, less pollution - 1-2 ppm,
etc.

BTW, I usually go through 1-2 cords for heating with a single VC stove rated
at 36000 BTUs.  We use ceiling fans to get the heat moving throughout the 
house.
From: camelsho@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (   James A Seymour)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Wood
Date: 12 Nov 1992 23:02:10 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

In article <watpod78.721593346@cunews> watpod78@alfred.carleton.ca (Phil Culhane) writes:
>My God, all this chatter about wood-chopping has me just a-hankerin to
>get back to the "mansion" and lay into a cord or two (alongside the
>requisite chopping music!).

Hmmmmmm, possibley the song from 7 Brides for 7 Brothers where 
one of the lines is "A man can't sleep, when he sleeps with sheep"?

(This song is sung after the 6 younger brothers have been kicked
out of the house to sleep in the barn after kidnapping 6 women
from the nearest town.)

camel
From: GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: inexpensive greenhouse
Date: 12 Nov 1992 13:05:37 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu


From: luden@lehigh.edu (Dean E. Nelson) writes:
Subject: Inexpensive greenhouse

I am interested in building a small greenhouse out of pvc pipe and plastic.
I would appreciate any ideas, experiences, pros and cons, etc.

Dean Nelson den0@lehigh.edu

---------------------------------------------------------------
Great idea.  Forget glass or fiberglass, too expensive.  Most
professional growers I have seen just stretch plastic over frames.
If they want a more sort of permanent greenhouse they use
professional UV resistant plastic film.

But, many I have seen just plastic wrap every fall for the winter,
they tear it off in the hot weather, and then cover their frame with
shade cloth.

I have a 7 by 12 fiberglass greenhouse with fiberglass and a redwood
frame ($750 un 1986)  I use it for propagation but it gets too hot
to use much after May.  I am atatching a growing house to the side
about 14 by 14, and am just setting posts in the ground and am going
to wrap it with plastic this winter.  I will pull all the plastic
off in the spring and just have a shade cloth top.

WE have temps in the winter down t0 20 F and in the summer up to 110
F.  Shade becomes really important even for gallons.  I will use the
new house primarily for gallons in the winter and summer and for
liners.
Karen
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: earp@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (J.Kevin Earp)
Subject: Re: Agriculture software.
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:50:16 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.233934.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> kpjone01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>Does anyone know of any freeware/shareware/or commercial software that is made
>specifically to help farmers with farmer-type problems?  I am looking for
>something that will help with deciding how much feed to give various cows and
>pigs.  Any help is appreciated.
> 
>Kevin
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Check your local Cooperative Extension Service Office.  There should
be one in each county.  When my wife and I worked for the CES in Ohio,
we wrote a lot of programs.  In fact, a large part of her job was 
creating exactly that type of program.  She also contacted other 
state's CES to see what they had.  There's lots out there, but like
anything affiliated with government communication seems to be 
lacking occasionally.  If they don't know of any, suggest they contact
their state office and ask them to poke around other state CES's.

I guess there really isn't any reason you couldn't call Ohio CES 
directly.  I don't remember the number, but their address is:


Ohio State University/ Ohio Cooperative Extension Service
2120 Fyffe Road
Columbus OH 43210        

Good luck!


Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: rim@csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Bob McKay)
Subject: Re: Problems heating with wood
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:37:31 GMT

smith@ctron.com (Lawrence C Smith) writes:

>I haven't any advice for improving fireplaces, but I _can_ tell you that most
>hardware stores carry firestarters - little, oil-impregnated squares of
>cardboard-like stuff - that burn like nobody's business.  Toss a couple of
>squares of those into your coals and put your fresh wood on those.  My wife
>and I have also used "fatsticks" - sold by Brookstone and LL Bean, I think.
>They burn very fiercely, and can get a fire going no matter what the wood.

firestarters are great for getting fires going; however, they're not a good
idea if you use roof collection of drinking water, though - the kerosene in
them leaves a residue on the roof which will taint your water (we had to 
dump a couple of thousand gallons a few months ago when we discovered this -
fortunately, it's been very wet since, so the tank is full again)
    Cheers
      Bob McKay

-- 
Bob McKay		   	Phone:	+61 6 268 8169	    fax: +61 6 268 8581
Dept. Computer Science		Internet:	rim@csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au
ADFA, Northcott Dve 		UUCP:...!uunet!munnari!csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au!rim
Campbell ACT 2600 AUSTRALIA	ARPA:	rim%csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
From: cohill@vtserf.cc.vt.edu (Andrew M. Cohill)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Problems heating with wood
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:48:52 GMT
Organization: Fire in the Mountain

In article <1992Nov11.225322.14990@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au> rim@csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Bob McKay) writes:
>
>And one other hint - if you find woodsplitting a chore, save it up till you're
>really mad about something: great therapy, and it gets done so much faster
>

This is a really important point.  No matter how angry and upset you are
about something, after splitting wood for half an hour you will feel
much better. When I lived in the suburbs, I spent a great deal of time
and money going to a health club several times a week to stay fit.  A
single year of cutting wood by hand (bowsaw) and splitting it by hand
did more for my physique than four years of free weights and the
cross-country ski machine.

Finally, size and brute strength has little to do with splitting wood.
Skill and practice helps, but the *really important* part of the work is
being able to visualize the splitting axe actually splitting the wood.
It's a Zen kind of thing--the wood has to be already split before you
can split it...

Andrew


-- 
|          ...we have to look for routes of power our teachers never       
|              imagined, or were encouraged to avoid.   T. Pynchon          
|                    
|Andrew Cohill        cohill@vtserf.cc.vt.edu            VPI&SU
From: rrw@sunset.cse.nau.edu (Bob Wier)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Rat Poison
Date: 10 Nov 92 22:53:18 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff AZ
Originator: rrw@sunset.cse.nau.edu


billj@b11.ingr.com (Bill Johnson):
> 
> I experienced a minor mouse problem last winter.  I let Orkin handle the
> problem.  They sprayed a white powder chemical into the areas we suspected the
> mouse to be travelling.  Apparently, mice clean themselves much like a cat does.
> When the mice lick the powder off their feet and ingest it, the chemical causes
> the mice to bleed internally.  This makes them thirsty, and they leave their
> hiding place in search of water.  By the time they reach the water, they are
> dead.  I found my two mice near the air conditioning condensation drain a few
> days after the chemial was applied.  This checmical breaks down in a very short 
> time, so there is no long-term danger to the residents of the home.  Of course,
> if you have mice problems again later, they'd have to come and spray again...
> 
  Although some people don't like to use poison (I have not children and/or
 pets to worry about), a product which I used to use by DCON called 
 "Lim-N-8" worked GREAT!  It was more along the lines of an industrial/farm/
 barn type product than a normal house bait.  I stuck it down into my 
 basement when I developed problems with pack rats (GADS! these critters
 are SMART!).  Unlike the normal "house" DCON, nothing ever died inside
 the walls or in the ceiling. I assume that the need for water was so
 stong they they immediate left and never returned.  However, I'm not 
 able to find this anymore (strongly suspect it might have been too strong
 and they were forced to take it off the market).  Using the regular
 house DCON the last 6 months or so, I've had 4 separate instances where
 they died INSIDE the house, which can get VERY unpleasant...

 Does anyone know if this or something similar is still available?

 THANKS

- Bob Wier

  ---------- insert favorite standard disclaimers here ----------
                   College of Engineering
      Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff Arizona
  Internet: rrw@naucse.cse.nau.edu | BITNET: WIER@NAUVAX | WB5KXH
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: eisen@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: Splitting Wood (was: Problems heating with wood)
Reply-To: eisen@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 23:50:15 GMT


Some tips:

I've got my chopping block set so that the top face is slightly
slanted, not so much that I can't stand a nice, squarely-cut log up,
but enough so that I can stand up some pretty badly cut stuff too. Just
turn it until it stands up. If that doesn't work, try the other end.

When you are using your maul with a good strong overhead swing, keep
your feet a fair distance apart, so that in the event something _bad_
happens you're less likely to hit yourself in the foot or shin. It also
makes you more stable thereby increasing your chance of being
accurate.

When I'm splitting, I lower my hands toward the ground as the maul is
coming down so that if (when :) I do miss, the arc that the maul
describes intersects the ground or the block before it intersects me.

On a tough piece, don't look at the spot you want to hit, look at a
spot 3" below where you want to hit.

Strike in line with the grain, if the log is leaning and you strike
straight down it won't work nearly as well as if you strike along the
line of the lean.

Don't bother trying to split forks into their separate prongs, stand
'em up with the prongs down and split 'em into two forks. If it's a
long prong and a short prong, hook the short prong on the _far_ side of
the block and treat it like any other fork.

Don't bother trying to split through a large knot radially or
circumfrentially, split next to it radially.

Carl West

When I stop learning, bury me.


Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill)
Subject: Homesteading (was Re: proposed increase in inheritance tax)
Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, TN
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:07:43 GMT

In article <1992Oct21.173832.24649@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>, rankin@midway.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Jim Rankin) writes:
>
>I guess I'd also like to know how you support your family working a farm 
>like this.

There are lots of possibilities, depending upon your resources, skills, the
size of your family, where you relocate, how deeply you want to get into
farming/homesteading, and so on.  If you live frugally, have a small family,
and raise most of your food, you might be able to get by with a couple low
paying (unskilled) jobs.  If you're so inclined, mail order businesses are
well-suited to rural/homestead situations.  You can also raise food and
livestock (perhaps pick-your-own berries), cut firewood, do odd jobs, etc.

>Do you program at night (hence the netnews feed)?

That's certainly a possibility, if you've got the skill.

>Whenever
>things get tough I always tell people I'm going to sell the house and
>move to Maine to start a Potato farm. (Of course I'd probably take a loss
>on my New Jersey house!). Amongst the many problems that would entail
>the worst two are 1.) where do you get the money to start ?, I'd have
>a little but not enough the buy acres of land.

Calculate your net worth realistically, then imagine selling off everything but
the essentials.  If you've been in the job market for a few years, you might be
surprised at what you've accumulated.  You might also be pleasantly surprised
at the prices for rural land and housing.

Remember, too, that you don't have to go cold turkey.  You could find a job
within commuting distance of a homestead and gradually adjust to the new
lifestyle.  As you start to become more self-sufficient, you can consider
dropping back to part-time if your employer is willing, or simply wait until
you can quit altogether.

>and 2.) How do children of the 'burbs do in rural land.

That depends upon the individual.  If you're determined, hard working, and
intelligent, you should do just fine.

>By the way I personally have a great deal of admiration for someone who
>can "grub out a living". I'll probably still be programming 20 years
>from now (heavy sigh)....

You might also want to get your hands on a self-help book entitled "Take Your
Life Off Hold" (can't remember the author, but I'll look it up if anyone
cares).  It offers lots of advice on making major lifestyle changes, and was a
big help to me and my wife when we went through the process a couple years ago. 

Good luck, whatever you decide!

-- 
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)           For every Bill Joy there is a Kirk McKusick.
Martin Marietta Energy Systems     For every Bill Gates there is a Richard
Workstation Support                Stallman.                     --Paul Graham
From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Possible return of gray wolf to Yellowstone National 
Distribution: world
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 92 05:24:46 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <1992Nov4.154858.144@vexcel.com> dean@vexcel.com writes:

 > After a spate of maulings in Glacier Natl Park, in which some of
 > the victims were actually devoured by the Grizzlies, the local
 > population reacted stongly _against_ the decision by Park officials
 > to kill the animals.  People are starting to get the idea that
 > when you visit someone elses home (wilderness), you live by their
 > rules.  I would like to emphasize that the negative raction to
 > "terminating" the bears was by _local_ people, not distant
 > environmentalists.

This is similar to the nationwide reaction against the humans visiting
the area when a dingo apparently took a baby girl at Uluru some years
ago. It is relevant to this case since dingos are our only equivalent
of your bears and wolves to their respective environments.

The ecosystemic questions arise concerning the impact of humans having
created a dependency among dingos on scavenging picnic scraps, how this
dependency might have increased the local dingo population far above
the normal carrying capacity of the area, and how an over-population
of near starving dingos will subsequently behave.

Quite apart from the legal tangle the Northern Territory Government
found itself in, unfortunately (albeit perhaps deliberately) obfuscating
public issues concerning park management, local concensus in particular
was that the visitors had brought the tragedy upon themselves.

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
From: glenda@cbnews.cb.att.com (glenda.lynne.childress)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Need a Donkey
Date: 10 Nov 92 21:58:16 GMT
Distribution: oh
Organization: AT&T

I am looking for a nice donkey on the small side.  I need a companion
for my sheep.  If you have any information of one for sale in the
mid-Ohio area, please send email to att!cblph!glenda.
Thanks