From: "micky wong" <micky.wong@canrem.com>
Subject: attention: gov't debate f
Reply-To: "micky wong" <micky.wong@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: soc
Date: 11 Dec 92 14:30:27 EST

In Article: <1992Dec7.131234.9221@iscsvax.uni.edu>
   Subject: ATTENTION: Gov't debate folks. READ!
      From: huss8397@iscsvax.uni.edu Mark Huss {?} writes:

>  Lines reflecting the poster's frustration deleted for brevity.

>  1.  90% of Chinese are peasants living in the countryside.  Most of
>      them don't give a hoot about what is going on in the government.

Please read the following from today's CND-Global

[Agence France Presse, 12/9/1992]
BEIJING -- Social stability will be affected in China if agriculture is
neglected, the People's Daily said Wednesday in a lengthy page-one
editorial. The comment by the main voice of the Chinese Communist Party
came after several warnings from leaders on the risks of unrest in the
countryside as discontent among farmers simmers. "The problem cannot be
taken lightly," Agriculture Minister Liu Zhonyi said Monday. A week
earlier, Vice Premier Tian Jiyun warned that unequal economic
development could spell peasant protests.
<(Forwarded by: Stephen Kam-Cheung Ng <skn1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>)

   I hope that this can be deemed as a kind of true progress, that some
leaders of the CG are willing to speak and facing the truth, regardless
how unpleasant it may be.

I would say that your above conclusion was wrong.

It is also a dangerous signal that China is developing a *Capitalism of
The Worst Kind*, free enterprises with government officials fattening
their own purses, by taking advantage of their privilege and abusive
power, which can result to a society with disproportional unbalance in
distribution of wealth, a society based on capitalism without the free
press to serve as the ombudsman can be a very dangerous place.

>   2.  The Tiananmen movement was not just because of a want of
>democracy. There were other things that bothered people at that time,
>such as corruption, low salaries and high inflation.

   Agree. However, regardless the cause of the movement, the CCP have no
excuse for committing the atrocity of slaughtering peaceful and weapon less
student demonstrators on the TAM.

>  3.  China is trying to modernize.  As it does this it is being forced
>to accept foreign concepts and ideas.  Some things will have to change
>in China in order for the economic growth to continue.

   No one is forcing China to accept any "foreign concepts and ideas",
concepts and ideas transcends national boundaries. Good concepts and
ideas belongs to the whole mankind. Many of the good Chinese concepts
and ideas had been adopted by many foreign countries.

   One of our savant au courant Mr James Ou can tell you a lot of good
Chinese ideas and concepts which are copied and used by many foreigners.

>  4.  There is nothing that America can hold over China's head.  If the
>US withdraws MFN, all that will happen is the door will be shut on the
>US.  MFN means that it will be easier for information to get in and out.
>If you are in favor of democracy then you better keep the channels of
>communication open. Withdraw MFN and China will laugh at the US and keep
>on what it is doing.

Wrong again, please read the following news from CND-Global of 12/9/92

BEIJING -- Vice Premier Zhu Rongji said Wednesday China values relations
with the United States and pledged respect for Sino-U.S. agreements, the
official Xinhua news agency reported.

Meeting with visiting Lt. Gov. Leo McCarthy of California, Zhu confirmed
China would implement Sino-U.S. agreements on intellectual property rights
and market access, Xinhua said. The agreements were a major bone of
contention between China and the United States before they were signed
earlier this year.

Zhu also "noted that China attaches great importance to Sino-U.S. relations,
particularly co-operation in the fields of economy and trade," Xinhua said.

> 5.  There are good "communists" just as there are bad "capitalists".

  Agree, but before the CCP formally renounce the 6.4 killing and allow
true freedom of press and freedom of expression, to safeguard the rampant
corruption of those CCP cadres, from stealing the fruits of China's economic
reform, we'll continue our condemnation of CCP as a party!

> 6.  Change will come to China.  Just give it time and patience.
>If you try to push China all that will happen is it getting angry.
>Just like pushing a stick at a hornets nest.
>Do it enough and sooner or later you'll get stung.

Your metaphor of comparing CCP to the hornets is very refreshing and
enlightening.   :-)

>  Now please do us a favor.  Keep the bantering to a minimum and
>constructive.  It seems to that this argument is left to a few people.
>Howabout moving your debate to E-mail.

Sorry that you plea is not granted, because you produced no convincing
argument. So the truth is you don't want people to know the dirt of the
CCP eh?

>        Thank You.

You are not welcome.

>        Mark D. Huss

Very interesting, A "white barbarian" talk like an very ill-informed
hard liners of the CCP.   :-)

>        University of Northern Iowa.

Even a good school can teach no fools.
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