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Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 11:33:18 -0500
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         KEGANRO@HUGSE1.HARVARD.EDU
Subject:      sleep

        I've been incredibly frustrated lately with how messed up my sleep has
been, and am wondering if anyone has any suggestions...
        so much of the reading I've done about CFIDS has talked about the
importance of treating the sleep disorder, but after a lot of experimenting
I've yet to find anything that helps.


        I've been sick with CFIDS for  2 1/2 years now, and for the past2
years my sleep pattern has been about the same.  I have some difficulty
falling asleep, even tho I'm incredibly tired.  But after about an hour or
so of doing relaxation exercises, I fall asleep.  I sleep pretty soundly for
2 or 3 hours, and then begin a pattern of waking up and falling asleep, over
and over.  I have vivid, wandering dreams, and often feel half awake and half
asleep.  I'll wake up, and remember a piece of a dream, then fall back asleep
and dream that I'm telling someone about the dream I just had...and on and on.
My nights feel pretty endless; I often wake up feeling like I've been watching
movies all night long.  Needless to say, I don't wake up feeling rested.

        The various things I've tried: starting with the least invasive, I've
done alot of relaxation and
 meditation exercises before sleeping.  I also am doing acupuncture and taking
Chinese herbs.  Last year I tried a very low dose of elavil, and unfortunately
developed reflux as a side effect.  (It can be a side effect of
 anticollonergic
drugs).  Anyway, because of this I can't take any of the tricyclic anti-
depressants.  I also have chronic gastritis, and that was irritated when I
tried taking trazodene.  I've tried taking valerian, an over-the-counter herb,
but it didn't seem to affect me.  I am taking prozac, which actually seems
to help my sleep some, and my doctor suggested trying valium or klonipin
but I've tried taking valium occasionally, and while it helps me fall asleep,
it doesn't seem to help at all with the quality of my sleep, and I don't
wake up feeling any more refreshed.

        So it doesn't seem worth it to me to get
 addicted to something like
valium when it doesn't even really help solve the problem.  Has anyone out
there found other ways of getting more restful, deep sleep?  Any ideas or
suggestions would be greatly appreciated... -- Kate
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Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 12:09:10 EST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         Dale Drake <DDRAKE@INDYCMS.BITNET>
Subject: Re: sleep; It's Possibly/Probably Lyme; Survey request

Roger says:

>            It is an immense disservice to those CFS &
>FM patients who do in fact have a serious condition that is different
>from Lyme but who might drop CFS/FM-oriented treatments because
>John's advice sounds reasonable.
>

Thanks again, Roger, for providing us with a reasonable viewpoint on
this confusing issue.

I'll add what my doctor said last week on this, since, after all this
discussion, I wanted to know if he'd even considered Lyme in my case
(I knew that he hadn't tested me for it).  He's Dr. Robyn Goshorn, who
runs the CFS Clinic at Indiana University Hospital. He's *very*
conservative, but OK otherwise.  He said that, since Indiana is not
an endemic area and since I didn't have any of the other symptoms of
Lyme and had no history of backpacking, tick bites, etc., that he didn't
consider it likely that I have Lyme.  He said the blood test for Lyme
gives too many false positives to be a reliable indicator without other
symptoms.  So I'm not gonna lose any sleep (precious precious sleep!)
over it.

>I know that John is deeply frustrated that the medical research
>establishment does not give Lyme disease the attention that it
>deserves, and he'd like as many people as possible to write to the
>U.S. Congress & NIH and ask that they fund research on this serious
>condition.

Yes, well, aren't we all.  I have noticed a dropoff of lobbying for
CFS research in the last year or so - as well as less coverage in the
media (which could be both a blessing and a curse) - has anyone else
noticed the same thing?
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Sun, 10 Jan 1993 02:37:17 -0500
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         Marshall Gilula <mgilula@TIGGER.RSMAS.MIAMI.EDU>
Subject:      lay opinions of one sawbones

OK, even though I am an MD, I am not trying to post this as a
commercial for microalgae, also known as spirulina, which I believe that
more of you/us should try....especially if you can figure out which of the
Marshall F. Gilula, M.D              "El que busca mucho nada encuentra, pero
mgilula@tigger.rsmas.miami.edu         el que busca nada mucho encuentra"
NeRD#1054     Co-Founder, MiamiNUG    NeXTMail Welcome
Virtual Virtual Realities,    German Shepherds,   and    Steinbergers.
brands for sale are the *active* ones...i.e. some of the spirulina sold is
just junk and doesn't do anything for you.

Also, beware the either/or attitude....most of us humans with difficult problems
really need to cultivate mmore of the both/and approach which is common
to Holistic Medicine as a serious discipline that incorporated traditional
general meadicine (my mailer is effed up) into a smooth continuum of many
nontraditional approaches.   Find a good family docor, doctor, even if he/she
doesn't believe in all of your interests but try to get *some* professional
help in your quest.  For example, acupuncture and a lot of irrne  uh...oriental
medicine can be helpful but absolutely stupid if used to the exclusion of
traditional medicine and good common sense.

Seeking information helps to empower you, but so does operating from the
heart on a conscious basis.  Good, strong heartfelt love and caring work
much better than flames.  Remember that notn...um..none of our diagnostic
systems are perfect.

Two brands of spirulina that I have personally tasted and used and found
NOT to be ripoffs are Light Force  And EarthRise.

Sorry for my semi-mechanical typos.

*******************standard disclaimers apply**************************
+++
OK
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Mon, 4 Jan 1993 08:39:17 EST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         Dale Drake <DDRAKE@INDYCMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Laughter a Rx for Health

Liz:

I love it!  and it's good to see your sense of humor won the day.  On the
same domestic tack, but a slightly more serious note, I asked for (and got)
a new iron for Christmas - one that switched itself off.  And I've put a
smoke detector in the kitchen, after leaving the burner on under an empty
skillet twice.  Oh, and I set my kitchen timer when I put on a kettle of
water so I don't forget it and have it boil away.

Coping skills .. not only are we a little safer, but we both rest a little
easier.

=== Dale  (DDRAKE@INDYCMS.BITNET)
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Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:35:24 -0600
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         "Fran E. Rich" <frich@TENET.EDU>
Subject:      Re: sleep

This sounds like my sleep pattern too. *Very* bizarre dreams. I found a
brand of Valerian that also contains hops and several other herbs that all
have the same result. Three of those work but sometimes give me
indigestion. I tried a liquid valerian extract but it didn't work as well.
Even so, I still wake somewhere between 2 and 4, I just go to sleep
quicker if I've taken the valerian.

Fran
From: ketchum@cs.montana.edu (Steve White)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: Re-fletching question
Date: 5 Jan 93 21:02:08 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, MSU, Bozeman Mt 59717

In article <1992Dec31.151736.1@happy.colorado.edu> ejwagner@happy.colorado.edu writes:
>In response to your message posting I have several suggestions.
>
>You have the right idea to shoot you arrows in to straw however, once a
>"pocket" has developed by placing arrows in the same area (i.e., a tight
>grouping) you will weaken an area in each bale.  Tp prevent the arrows from
>penetrating place a rubber conveyer belt behind your backstop. I guarantee you
	Good suggestion.
>
>As for the flecthing of your arrows I would recommend that You stay away from
>feathers and use plastic fletching.  Plastic will be more forgiving and will
>hold its shape after you abuse it.  I have been using plastic fletching for

	I have to disagree with Eric here. Feathers are definitely more 
	forgiving of a bad release. They also tend to stabilize the arrows 
	flight quicker too. As you said they are not as durable as plastic but
	even when wet and or torn up quite a bit they still give good arrow 
	flight.
>eight years now and have only lost two or three veins in all this time.  Most
>of the Easterners will swear by feathers.  The choice is yours.  What material
>you decide on will make all the difference in the world.  Regardless of the
>material you decide on I highly recommend you use a RIGHT handed helical.  The

	I never noticed that Right hand helical fletching flies any different,
	except in the rotation of the arrow, than Left hand. The important 
	things are that they are all fletched the same and that you choose the
	kind of helical that gives you the best fletch clearance of your
	rest.
>helical will help to straighten out your arrow flight and is a MUST if you plan
>to shoot broad heads.
>---------------->   EJWagner@Happy.UCCS.EDU   <---------------

	Good luck on your elk hunt in 93'. I am going out this afternoon to
	see how some big bulls, that are on their winter range, are making 
	it through the winter.
							   _________________
__________________________________________________________/		    \
  Steve White								     |
  INTERNET : ketchum@cs.montana.edu					/___/   
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -   >>>----------------------->
From: ajcd@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Angus Duggan)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: WASTE OF YOUR TIME
Date: 6 Jan 93 16:42:37 GMT
Followup-To: alt.archery
Organization: Edinburgh University Fried Brain Carry-out

In article <16B4E7885.CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu>, CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes) writes:
> 2)  I've heard that Beaman's carbon arrows are made with the fibers
> running straight, while others (ACE, AMC ?) are made with the fibers
> cross hatched.  As a result, the Beamans are far more likely to
> crack/splinter/explode than are the others.  Is there any truth to
> this?

AFC (the company name is *Aligned* Fibre Composites) arrows and to the best of
my knowledge A/C/E and Beman all use aligned carbon fibre. A/C/E arrows are
bonded to aluminium, which takes most of the load off the carbon. Easton's ECS
arrow use twisted fibres, with the result that they twist most disconcertingly
in your hand when you pull them out of the target. I think the Beman's
reputation is more due to the method of manufacture; a lot of the Bemans that
I have seen break have cracked along the seam which is left from manufacturing.

a.
--
Angus Duggan, Department of Computer Science,	| 42lb 68" Portland 2000, 29.5"
University of Edinburgh, The King's Buildings,  | ACE 520, ACE UHR rod, Arten &
Mayfield Road, Edinburgh EH9 3JZ, Scotland.	| AGF twins, 18 str Fastflite.
INET: ajcd@dcs.ed.ac.uk | JANET: ajcd@uk.ac.ed.dcs | PHONE: +44(0)31 650 5126
From: ajcd@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Angus Duggan)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: Arrow sizes?
Date: 6 Jan 93 10:14:24 GMT
Followup-To: alt.archery
Organization: Edinburgh University Fried Brain Carry-out

In article <930105110640@keith.ct.gmr.com>, kdickey@cmsa.gmr.com (Keith Dickey) writes:
> Could someone give me a quick explanation of what the
> numbers on the different sizes mean? For example, 2114, 2213, etc..

The first two digits are the arrow diameter in 1/64ths on an inch, and the
second two digits are the wall thickness in 1/1000ths of an inch. So a 2114 is
21/64" diameter with a wall thickness of 0.013". Increasing the diameter and
increasing the wall thickness both increase the stiffness (spine) of the
arrow, but with differing effects; large wall thicknesses make the arrow much
heavier than larger diameters.

The use to which the arrow will be put should guide the exact choice of arrow,
but you should always make sure the arrow is tuned to the bow. If you are
target shooting indoors, large light arrows are good to get linecutters (e.g.
2512, 2413). These arrows are quite easy to damage, and have a large
cross-section, so you wouldn't want to shoot them on a field course or in
windy conditions (for instance, target/3d shooting outdoors). A heavier,
narrower arrow such as a 2117 would be more appropriate for these purposes.

a.
--
Angus Duggan, Department of Computer Science,	| 42lb 68" Portland 2000, 29.5"
University of Edinburgh, The King's Buildings,  | ACE 520, ACE UHR rod, Arten &
Mayfield Road, Edinburgh EH9 3JZ, Scotland.	| AGF twins, 18 str Fastflite.
INET: ajcd@dcs.ed.ac.uk | JANET: ajcd@uk.ac.ed.dcs | PHONE: +44(0)31 650 5126
From: mce@ops.ucsb.edu (Michael C. Edwards)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: just a beginner
Date: 5 Jan 93 20:19:20 GMT

I am interested in buying a compound bow and learning the basics.
I am interested in any recommendations on good companies from which
to purchase a bow( i.e. Bear, PSE, Browning, etc.)  I only want to 
spend about $150 max on the bow and maybe $100 on arrows, a target,
quiver, etc.  Also, does anyone know of a real good book or video
that shows the steps on bow setup, shooting, using the sights, etc.

Thanks for any information,
Mike
From: CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: WASTE OF YOUR TIME
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 93 08:34:09 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University
NNTP-Posting-Host: tamvm1.tamu.edu

In article <10758933.2.726286006@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au>
   10758933@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (BRUCE GIBBENS) writes:
 
>HELLO THERE, I'M A FORMER AUSTRALIAN NATIONAL TARGET AND FIELD ARCHERY
>CHAMPION AND CURRENTLY AN ENGINEERING STUDENT.  I AM JUST POTTERING ABOUT ON
>MY COMPUTER, TRYING TO GET THE HANG OF THIS NEWS NETWORK THINGAMAJIG. ADIOS!
 
As soon as you find that CAPS LOCK key, you'll be in good shape!  ;-)
 
 
>P.S.  I used to use a Hoyt Pro Medalist,1916 Easton arrows, and Beaman
>carbons for field.  Great entertainment value was had when missing field
>targets- the carbons exploded into a zillion pieces. wowee!
 
Ah, you found it.  As for the comment on the carbon arrows, I have 2
comments.  1)  What happens when shooting aluminum arrows without points?
2)  I've heard that Beaman's carbon arrows are made with the fibers
running straight, while others (ACE, AMC ?) are made with the fibers
cross hatched.  As a result, the Beamans are far more likely to
crack/splinter/explode than are the others.  Is there any truth to
this?
 
graphically:
    Beaman arrow:     ========================================\
   carbon fiber -->   ---------------------------------------  \
   carbon fiber -->   ---------------------------------------   >
   carbon fiber -->   ---------------------------------------  /
                      ========================================/
 
 
    others:           ========================================\
    carbon fiber -->  \ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ \
                       X  X  X  X  X  X  X  X  X  X  X  X  X    >
    carbon fiber -->  / \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ /
                      ========================================/
 
      -----------------------------------------------------
Chris Barnes            |   President - Bryan/College Station
cbarnes@tamvm1.tamu.edu |         Retriever Club.
(409) 846-3273 (home)   |   "Dedicated to the betterment of
(409) 845-4437 (work)   |               the retrieving breeds"
Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: ftarnol@nma.mnet.uswest.com (Fred Arnold (303) 896-8084)
Subject: Colorado Hunters under attack
Organization: U S WEST NMA Impl & Support
Date: 4 Jan 93 08:54:00 CST
Followup-To: talk.politics.animals 
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

[Moderator's note:  this is posted to rec.hunting (and rec.guns) for
informational purposes only.  Please send follow ups to
talk.politics.animals.  tjr ]

As many of you are aware, hunters in Colorado lost the spring bear
hunt to an ARM petition drive that placed a Constitutional amendment
banning the hunt on the November ballot.  Colorado, like many other
states, has a provision that allows citizen initiates to be voted on
by the electorate.

The late filing of this petition did not give sportsmen's groups the
opportunity to organize or finance an effective campaign to defeat
this initiative.  Since the initiative was narrowly worded and only
affected the spring bear hunt, a certain amount of apathy among
hunters was probably also responsible for its passage.  

I have recently heard, second-hand, that the same group that sponsored
the spring bear hunt initiative now plans to go after the archery bear
hunt.  If we begin now, we have time to organize and plan a campaign
to defeat this latest attack on our hunting heritage.  We cannot afford
to lose seasons or hunters to campaigns that ban us from the field.
While I am not personally a bow-hunter or a bear hunter for that matter,
the loss of any season lowers participation in hunting.  According to the
NRA, only 7-8% of Americans hunt today.  That makes us the most vulnerable
of minorities.  ARM groups can continue to chip away at the hunting
population until our hunting rights are gone.

Let me get off my soapbox for a minute.  My real purpose in writing
is to gather ideas for how we can defeat the coming initiatives.  How
do we explain hunting to others in a convincing manner?  I've had
some success one-on-one with non-hunters who are not closed-minded,
but our numbers are so small that one-one-one solutions don't seem to
be the answer.  If I could buy a 60 second commercial to run on radio
or TV, what should its content be?

I'll pass along any suggestions I get.
-- 
+******************************************************************************+
| Fred Arnold   NRA Life                                                       |
|    Voice (303) 896-8084                                                      |
|      FAX (303) 896-7644                                                      |
+******************************************************************************+
From: z_hansonde@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: BOWFISHING NEWS ANYONE???
Date: 12 Jan 93 11:19:38 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

Any one interested in discussing the sport of Bowfishing please send E-Mail
message.   Aim Lo.          
                          David Hanson

Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: rovsmith@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (VAUGHAN SMITH)
Subject: testing
Organization: Halls of Residence, Monash University 
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 06:29:59 GMT

testing 1 2 3 ...
From: ajcd@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Angus Duggan)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: Arrow sizes?
Date: 6 Jan 93 15:23:12 GMT
Followup-To: alt.archery
Organization: Edinburgh University Fried Brain Carry-out

In article <C0FGG1.1GM@dcs.ed.ac.uk>, my fingers slipped and I wrote:
> So a 2114 is > 21/64" diameter with a wall thickness of 0.013".
Which should, of course, be a wall thickness of 0.014"

a.
--
Angus Duggan, Department of Computer Science,	| 42lb 68" Portland 2000, 29.5"
University of Edinburgh, The King's Buildings,  | ACE 520, ACE UHR rod, Arten &
Mayfield Road, Edinburgh EH9 3JZ, Scotland.	| AGF twins, 18 str Fastflite.
INET: ajcd@dcs.ed.ac.uk | JANET: ajcd@uk.ac.ed.dcs | PHONE: +44(0)31 650 5126
Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: 10758933@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (BRUCE GIBBENS)
Subject: WASTE OF YOUR TIME
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, Monash University 
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 02:06:46 GMT


HELLO THERE, I'M A FORMER AUSTRALIAN NATIONAL TARGET AND FIELD ARCHERY 
CHAMPION AND CURRENTLY AN ENGINEERING STUDENT.  I AM JUST POTTERING ABOUT ON 
MY COMPUTER, TRYING TO GET THE HANG OF THIS NEWS NETWORK THINGAMAJIG. ADIOS!

P.S.  I used to use a Hoyt Pro Medalist,1916 Easton arrows, and Beaman 
carbons for field.  Great entertainment value was had when missing field 
targets- the carbons exploded into a zillion pieces. wowee!
BRUCE GIBBENS
MONASH UNIVERSITY, MELBOURNE, AUSTRALIA
10758933@ENG2.ENG.MONASH.EDU.AU
From: lucien@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: bemans vs. ACE's
Date: 7 Jan 93 03:04:19 GMT
Reply-To: lucien@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu ()
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
  Yes, the ACE's have a cross-hatched carbon fiber casing wrapped around an aluminum shank, which is part of their durability.  Beamans (I don't think that's spelled right) just have straight fibers.  Also, muc
Originator: lucien@dopey.cc.utexas.edu


Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: bblohm@boi.hp.com (Bill Blohm)
Subject: Re: Arrow sizes?
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:59:43 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Check out any of the catalogs you can pick up at your local
sporting goods store for the various arrow manu facturers. 
There is usually a guide in there that tells what you are
looking for.

Bill Blohm
bblohm@hpbs1686.boi.hp.com

Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: DENNIS_@NCSU.EDU (DGA)
Subject: Re: just a beginner
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 13:35:30 GMT

In article <mce.726265160@ops> mce@ops.ucsb.edu (Michael C. Edwards) writes:
>From: mce@ops.ucsb.edu (Michael C. Edwards)
>Subject: just a beginner
>Date: 5 Jan 93 20:19:20 GMT
>I am interested in buying a compound bow and learning the basics.
>I am interested in any recommendations on good companies from which
>to purchase a bow( i.e. Bear, PSE, Browning, etc.)  I only want to 
>spend about $150 max on the bow and maybe $100 on arrows, a target,
>quiver, etc.  Also, does anyone know of a real good book or video
>that shows the steps on bow setup, shooting, using the sights, etc.
>
>Thanks for any information,
>Mike


Mike,
If you can hook up with someone that knows archery equipment or you are not 
risk averse, don't pass up the used market.  The local newspaper's 
classifieds, the used section of archery or general sporting goods shops and 
pawn shops can all be fertile hunting grounds, especially for bows.  In this 
area your $250 investment could be multiplied by a factor of 2 or even 3 
when spent on used equipment.  Also, for NC anyway, your timing is good.  
The end of deer season usually sees more bows on the used market than any 
other time in the year.

DGA
Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: melin@hlrz24.hlrz.kfa-juelich.de (Stephan Melin)
Subject: Re: bemans vs. ACE's
Organization: Forschungszentrum Juelich GmbH (KFA), Germany
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 08:48:20 GMT
X-Posted-From: hlrz24.hlrz.kfa-juelich.de
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <86268@ut-emx.uucp>, lucien@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu writes:
|> Yes, the ACE's have a cross-hatched carbon fiber casing wrapped around 
|> an aluminum shank, which is part of their durability.  Beamans (I don't
|> think that's spelled right) just have straight fibers.  Also, muc
 
As Angus Duggan pointed out the ACE's also have only straight carbon
fibres, but there is a section with a layer of cross-hatched fibre-glass 
fibres at the front. This layer is only there to reduce wear of the carbon.

Good shooting
-- 
Stephan Melin

melin@hlrserv.hlrz.kfa-juelich.de   ||    hkf418@djukfa11.bitnet
Newsgroups: alt.archery