From: dhepner@cup.hp.com (Dan Hepner)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.tech
Subject: Re: Diesel engine info wanted
Date: 2 Oct 92 18:49:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: cup.BvICA0.A9s
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1scd1 PL4

From: adamstr@cc.uvcc.edu

>I'm interested in hearing from those of you who own trucks with
>one of the following diesel engines:
>
>	Navistar 7.3l (Ford)
>	Cummins  5.9l (Dodge)
>	GM       6.5l turbo
>

Cummins.  3/4 Ton 4WD (W250).

>Please include mileage figures,

24 MPG best (613 miles using 25.7 gal), 22 .. 23 common, 19 MPG worst, 
with #3000 cargo.

>maintenance costs

$39.95 so far to an oil change outfit away from home, twice the
rate charged on a car (12 quart oil capacity). 

>likes

-Never having to shift down because the hill is too steep.  This
 is just amazing for loaded vehicle weight of around #8500.  6% grades 
 loaded at 75 MPH is totally doable.  8% grades unloaded.

-The ability to go 500+ miles between fillups.

-Low speed drivability.  You can of course lug the engine too low, 
 but cruising dirt roads at just over idle is a real pleasure.

-The 5-speed transmission seems perfect for the engine.  All
 synchronized, evenly positioned from gear to gear, total
 range of 7:1. 

-The starting system.  As yet untested in sub-zero conditions, but 
 used at 25F and up: always no-wait, no crank _instant_ start.  No glow
 plugs when cold, it uses heated air.

-Dodge has done the package right.  When you get the Cummins, you 
 automatically get everything as heavy-duty as you could even order.
 Dana 70 in the rear, 60F up front.  Front sway bar.  Load range E 
 Michelin XL4 tires (>#3000).  110V Engine heater.  That great
 5-speed transmission. All included in the charge for the Cummins.

-70k miles drivetrain warranty, 100k miles engine warranty.

>dislikes,

- Sales people who didn't know jack about what they had.

- The air intake is behind the front bumper.  This seemed a tad low
  to me, although I don't ever remember driving in water that deep.

- The 4wd comes with what you might call a "factory lift kit", which
  must look cool to some but sets the truck floor a couple of inches 
  higher than I would have preferred (somewhat mitigates beef ^).

- The service manual describes the 5-speed as an "unrepairable item"
  requiring total change.

- The overall noise level is at the high end of acceptable.

- Power windows.  I just don't like 'em, the implementation is
  great.

- There are no factory installed tie-downs.

- I couldn't find one on a lot with factory installed overload rear
  springs.  Personally I would have preferred a lighter set of
  main springs augmented by a heavy set of overloads.  The ride
  over rough roads isn't jarring, but I've experienced plenty
  of existence proof that it could have been better.

- Getting the last 2.5 gallons into the tank is tedious.

- The "luxury package" does not include a tachometer, although
  there is an electronic sensor and an available factory tach.

Comments I've heard from others (Cummins owners talk to each other)

- The automatic is rated to tow ~#7000 of trailer, while the 5-speed
  is rated at ~#11,000.  Trying to pull a large trailer with the
  auto results in a constantly slipping transmission. 

>if given the chance to do it all again, would you buy
>the same vehicle.

You bet.

>Also, to 7.3 owners, have you considered adding a
>turbo?
>	adamstr@cc.uvcc.edu

Comments from others indicate that this converts a real dog into an 
engine which competes with the Cummins in power but not in mileage.

There exists a widely believed rumor that Ford will replace the 7.3
with the Cummins when their contract with Navistar is up.  There's
another rumor that Chrysler will provide a beefier automatic soon.
There's yet a third that Dodge will provide a body style which
looks like a combined Chevy pickup and shrunken Kenworth 
conventional.

Dan Hepner