HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Where to study Ninjutsu (S. Hayes)
From: bamon@ocvaxc.cc.oberlin.edu
Date: 19 Nov 92 08:46:37 EDT
Organization: Oberlin College

Here is the response I got from Stephen Hayes, when I asked him, for
many of you, about places to study ninjutsu:

"Persons interested in ninjutsu martial arts and meditation training
can write to Stephen K. Hayes' Nine Gates Institute directly for 
information on their programs, videos and workbooks, and monthly
training newsletter.
                      Nine Gates Institute
                      P.O. Box 291947
                      Dayton-Kettering, Ohio
                      45429-0947 USA

The Institute is hesitant to comment on the qualifications of any 
instructors not affiliated with them. Due to the fact that there are 
no laws governing who can claim to be a teacher of the martial arts, 
they do not want to accidentally mislead anyone to an unqualified 
person claiming to be a teacher. They can not give out any addresses 
for local training. Students travel to the Institute for training, or 
attend seminars around the country, or use Nine Gates texts and tapes 
for self-teaching."
From: gbaker@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Greg baker)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Tae Kwon Do, getting a Black Belt, etc...
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 11:33:15 MST
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #3, Edmonton, AB, Canada

- 
- If you made it to red in a year, black in 6 or 7 months might not
- be out of the question.  I've seen the double-dan test before,
- but only in the case of people with dan ranking from some other
- organization upon joining a new school.  You take an abbreviated
- exam to get a provisional belt which allows you to get up to
- speed in the new environment.  Then you confirm (or lose) it
- with a full test six months later.  Another device is to require
- a test for "black stripe" between red and black.  This is how it
- was done in the school where I trained, and I guess you could
- say that it amounted to taking two black belt exams.
- --
- Richard A. Drury
- drury@helix.nih.gov

In my school we have a black stripe between red belt and 1st dan. We 
also have stripes between every belt, green stripe, blue stripe, 
etc..(I've seen schools use a yellow stripe as well.) Some schools use 
1-3 stripes depending on the marks received at the testing. 

To get the second dan (and every dan above that to at least 4th) its 4 
tests every 5-6 mths. ugh

.greg.

           \\\\\\\\\B.anzai A.nime K.lub of A.lberta/////////
                 Greg Baker gbaker@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca
               --------------------------------------
                \\\\\\\\\ STATION  z e b r a /////////
From: ttk@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (the troglodyte killer)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Legality of less-than-lethal weapons in CA
Date: 20 Nov 1992 17:15:32 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
Distribution: ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucscb.ucsc.edu


 
     Howdy..  I don't know how many people remember, but about a 
month ago there were a few threads on this newsgroup concerning 
what constitutes a "legal" weapon.
 
     Yesterday I had the opportunity to check out the California 
Penal Code (I needed to know if my jo, tonfa, et al were illegal 
on the UCSC campus), and it turns out that there're a mess of 
devices that fall under the catagory "Less Lethal Weapons", 
possession of which may or may not be basis for arrest, depending 
on where you are.  (For example, "Less Lethal Weapons" are illegal 
on the UC campuses, but probably not in your own home or abroad).
 
     Since the list was tucked away in a relatively obscure corner 
of the Penal Code, I thought I should post its existance here (and 
be careful to limit this message's distribution to California!).  
It contained some devices which most people would never consider 
weapons.  For instance, "safety and illumination devices" (like 
flashlights) which might be used as a weapon are considered "Less 
Lethal Weapons".  Slingshots and gas weapons (like mace) were also 
mentioned.  The list can be found in section 12601 of the Code.
 
     Fortunately, the devices I have in my possession were in no 
way made reference to, so they're still hanging on my dorm wall..
 
/---\ /---\ /=   /   ttk@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (the troglodyte killer)
  =     =    = /    "Home is a place that keeps the rain off my computer"
  =     =    = \     B0 f- t+ w- g k s- m+ r- p-(++)     ______
  =     =    =   \                      silence = death   \bi/
                                                           \/
Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 21:26:23 -0500 
From: Peter Jason Ward <pw2j+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts

Bruce Lee incorporated some aspects (I say aspects cuz I don't know
whether they were moves, footwork, etc.) of western boxing into JKD.  He
said that there is a range of attack where boxing could defeat many
other arts, and he decided to make JKD able to work from all attacking
ranges and angles.
                                   Peter Ward
I think Bruce would have taken Sugar Ray
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: taddiken@ms.uky.edu (scott taddiken)
Subject: Determining the winner of a "friendly" inter-arts duel.
Keywords: inter-arts sparring
    <MARY.92Nov14084527@martinique.Cayman.COM> 
    <1992Nov15.122534.15871@nntp.uoregon.edu>
Summary: Inter art training can be done.
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 18:30:56 GMT

Within "Getting to grappling range", a thread which I began during last week,
Joseph and Mary have brought up some interesting points about how to determine
the winner of a "friendly" inter-art duel.  While this is a fascinating topic,
it is also a new one, hence the subject line change.

My definition of "friendly" here is:
1) A certain amount of protection is worn by the combatants, because as Mary
   pointed out, things can get a little messy.
2) Effort is made to avoid seriously injuring the opponent.  If the striker
   stuns his opponent, he does not finish him off.  If the grappler gets a grip
   on his opponent, he does not break an arm.  Occasionally this means
   swallowing one's pride, and allowing the opponent to believe that he has
   scored a victory.
3) No method is agreed upon to decide the winner of the bout.  IMHO, this is
   as important as the other two (and bears upon the last sentence of #2).
   I have done this only twice, and my feeling is that this kind of training
   requires people with very good attitudes and pretty strong abilities in
   their respective arts.  I enjoyed myself enormously.  I learned which of
   my abilities were effective and what vulnerablilities I have.

I certainly hope the "Getting to grappling range" thread doesn't die right
away.  Todd titilated me by saying that some Chinese styles have very clever
ways of closing the gap while receiving minimal punishment.  I'd be very
interested to hear about some of those methods.  Also, do aikidoka agree with
Todd's assertion that the aikido methods of getting into grappling range are
so specifically oriented to aikido techniques that they would not be
particularly useful to, say, an Olympic wrestler who finds himself in a
fistfight?  Precisely what technique do you think might be helpful?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott A. Taddiken, University of Kentucky


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: desire info...
Keywords: Defense!
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 02:23:29 GMT

In article <By6z8o.up@acsu.buffalo.edu> v067rcyf@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (AARDVARK) writes:
>I once heard of a martial art that dealt only with defensive moves...
>i.e. redirecting the attackers blow without using any offensive moves.

I don't know of any purely-defensive martial arts. There are a number
of "soft" arts, that often use the attacker's energy and motion
against him. But I still think of that as "offensive": It is an
intentional act to harm the opponent. The only distinction is whether
your attack is an action or a reaction. 

                                               Frank Crary
                                               CU Boulder

Organization: Masters student, Industrial Administration - 3rd Yr. Opt., Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
From: rpaw@ocf.berkeley.edu (Richard Tse-Woon Paw)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: What are the purposes of Forms ?
Date: 19 Nov 1992 22:04:49 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: hailstorm.berkeley.edu

In article <BxytnD.JrL@gabriel.keele.ac.uk> phd07@keele.ac.uk (H.C. Patel) writes:
>
>Hi!,
>	 I have not been reading this group regularly. 
>So apologies if this question has been discussed before. 
>	Basically, I want to know what are the purposes of forms ?. 
>I do not see why there is so much emphasis on them. How can it help someones
>ability as a martial artist ?. Finally, how should one perform a form ?.
>That is, do you picture an oponent in front of you while performing ?.

The form basically gets you used to the motion of the technique.  It helps to
develop coordination,and focus.  When I do my forms, I try to use it to
develop my sense of flow and help to transition from one technique to
another.

For practical application, we take sections of the forms out and practice
the techniques or group of techniques as if there was an opponent.


-- 
Richard Tse-Woon Paw            Within each man is the most powerful weapon
rpaw@ocf.berkeley.edu                  on Earth.  ---  The human mind
rpaw@ucsee.berkeley.edu          
Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: More fogey fighting
Organization: National Institutes of Health
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 04:33:07 GMT

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: More fogey fighting

In article robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes:

>Oh, I'm sorry.  My apologies.  You were indeed the person who
>started the discussion.  I was thinking of the other guy.

I kinda suspected that, but thought I'd pull your chain a little
anyway since you left it hanging out so far >;-)

>Well, if it would make you happy, I could try to find some
>75-year-old T'ai Chi teacher and have him bounce me off walls

Yes, yes, and get somebody to videotape it!  We an always run it 
in fast forward to make it look like real fighting >;-) >;-) 

>But seriously, I think it has more to do with the relative
>availability of 75-year-old martial artists who are still
>teaching the public.  I just can't believe that people remain
>formidable fighters into their sixties and then all of a sudden
>go feeble in the span of a couple years.  I think more likely
>they just retire.

Seriously, I don't know.  You are certainly right that there are
relatively few martial artists still teaching the public at this
age.  But I'm not sure why that should be so, if not that they
are mostly over the hill by then.  Oh well, I guess we'll all
get to experience this at first hand sooner or later.  Drop me a
line in fourty years or so and let me know how you made out!
--
Richard A. Drury
drury@helix.nih.gov
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: fmcgnnss@unix2.tcd.ie (Fergal Niall McGuinness)
Subject: Back issues of Inside Kung Fu
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 11:45:04 GMT

	I am looking for a back issue of Inside Kung FU ( Sept '92).
	This magazine is not sold in the shops in Ireland as far as I am
	aware. I was wondering do Inside Kung Fu send out recent issues of 
	their magazine out on request? 
--
	Fergal McGuinness
	Dept. Of Microelectronic Engineering
	Trinity College Dublin
	Ireland.
From: rmr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Richard M. Romanowski)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: query on kundalini, kung fu, etc.
Date: 16 Nov 92 22:54:50 GMT
Organization: UB


	HI!
	A friend of mine who does Crane Kung Fu says that Snake Kung Fu
cultivates Kundalini very well.  Does anybody corroborate this? If so,
how can I learn it?
	I know that Tai-Chi is supposed to get your chi all nice and balanced,
but are there other martial arts that work with kundalini?  Some would 
argue that kundalini is not equal to chi, or perhaps is a specific kind of
chi-- opinions?  
	What is the best martial art for developing extreme ki control?
Not that I have a lot of bricks that need breaking, but it would be
of tremendous value to neuroscience to have this skill, IMHO.
	Do all of you do hatha yoga?  Do you do raja yoga?  

Thanks
Luck
Rick
From: urbina@novax.llnl.gov
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Navy SEALs and Jeet Kune Do
Date: 18 Nov 92 07:33:08 GMT



I was reading in an old issue of IKF that Paul Vunak is exclusively training
Navy SEALs in his system of Jeet Kune Do. I was wondering if anybody else on
this newsgroup knows what other Specforces groups train in other martial arts
styles. When I was in the Navy I tried to start a martial arts conversation 
with a SEAL but he said his training is classified. That was about 4 years ago
I don't know what new training is going on now.

Guy
Urbina@novax.llnl.gov

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485)
Subject: Re: 10th Dan & Badass Karate Bullshit
Organization: SRG, Arinc Research Corp., Annapolis, MD
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 15:09:01 GMT

Mild Flamage ahead:

In article <1992Nov14.045400.26626@gagme.chi.il.us> phantom@gagme.chi.il.us (Leif Ericksen) writes:
>	I do have one comment, I have heard of 10th DANS, BUT BUT listen
>closely, to my understanding ANYTHING ABOVE 5th DAN is purely HONORARY, and
>really does not hold any water.
>	( At least for Shotokan, I am sure all others though are included )

	Wrong answer, Glasshoppah - you fail to grasp the diamond sword which
cuts through delusion. You will surely be reincarnated as a tapeworm, or some
other lowly denizen of the digestive system.

	How ironic that you quote "Karate-DO: My Way of Life", yet you feel
that ranks given for perfection of character, advancement of the art and
teaching ability "really does not hold any water".

> You may train for a long time, but if you merely move your hands and feet
>and jump up and down like a puppet, learning karate is not very different from
>learning a dance.  You will never have reached the heart of the matter; you 
>will have failed to grasp the quintessence of karate-do
>					- Gichin Funakoshi

	Perhaps you would prefer this kind of quote in your .sig file:

	"Funakoshi, what is best in Karate-Do?"
	"To achieve perfection of character, live in peace with all beings, yet
have the strength and resolve to destroy an animal with a single blow."
	"Wrong! Conan, what is best in Karate-Do?"
	"To crush your enemies, see them scattered before you, and hear the
lamentations of their women!"
	"Conan, I award you the rank of 10th Dan, because you are tougher than
that wuss-bag Funakoshi!"

--
	Stephen Chan
	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net
From: jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd)
Subject: Re: Kendo tournament report
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:08:12 GMT
Organization: University of Utah

In article <memo.747373@cix.compulink.co.uk> bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar) writes:

   I've never actually seen a Kendo tournament so I have a few questions.

   1) Is there no electronic gear for detecting points, I would have thought
   that the Japanese would have put something together by now. Then the above
   type of bad call would not occur. Since you are wearing armour anyway I
   wouldn't have thought there would be a weight problem.

	In my opinion, sensory detection would not really help much.
Several factors besides striking the target go into determining if the
competitor executed "yuko datotsu," a sufficiently effective blow.
These other factors include proper footwork (with a powerful fumikomi,
or stamping action), proper distance, piercing kiai (yell), zanshin
(sharply focussed attention), and proper clearing of the opponent's
weapon.

	When I think about it, a Kendo referee's job is incredibly
complex.  I'm sorry if I seemed to be complaining about the judging in
my match.  I really have no right to criticize anyone's ability to do
a job that I can't do myself.

--
jonathan byrd
jon@apollo.med.utah.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,rec.games.video.arcade
From: haworth@cwis.unomaha.edu (Dwight A. Haworth)
Subject: Re: looking for innovative uses of computers in MA
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 07:03:05 GMT

ssingh@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  writes:
> Hello everyone.
> 
> I have been talking with a couple of friends today about techniques
> for using the computer to make one a better fighter.

 [snip]

 The problem of internal representation and input may have already been
 solved.  I've seen demos of systems that analyze golf swings, running
 motion, and so on.  It seems to me [IMHO] that these kinds of systems
 could be adapted to record and analyze most martial arts activities.

 Sorry, I don't have a source or a reference for the equipment, but
 maybe someone else here does.


 Dwight Haworth
 College of Business Administration
 haworth@cwis.unomaha.edu
 Standard Disclaimers
From: dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552)
Subject: Whips 'n Such
Organization: just me
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 15:18:22 GMT
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts
Keywords: ooohh...

In article <Bxs2xn.AC7@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) writes:
>Regarding older martial artists...
>
>Now if I were to get into a fight with one of these guys (why?),
>and they were stupid enough to fight me unarmed (unlikely) in
>a fair and open fight (even more unlikely and stupid), then I
>could probably beat him.  There are a few fortunate souls who
>manage to preserve their health/strength/speed into old age
>(Sig Kufferath comes to mind), and I might have more trouble
>with them.  But I still think that my instructor could whup me
>(I live in Indiana; "whup" is Hoosier for "defeat", derived from
>the Old American, "whip"; ie. "I whipped him.") if he used a 
>weapon, and I think he could find a suitable weapon fairly easily
>in a street environment (If not, he could always use a kubotai
>or a cane).
>
>Comments?

Well, yes.  Seems to me that a whip (horse or buggy) *used* to be a
common tool.  After all, the phrase is evidence.  So, are there any
styles that teach...umm...non-recreational whip techniques?  You know,
that could *really* hurt someone, as opposed to...uhh...well, are there?

David "Rice Krispies?  My Favorite!" Pipes

robear@digex.com
From: bj7006269@ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg
Subject: Re: THE MASTER
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:04:44 GMT



	The Master'92 was produced in 1989 but never released till 1992.

It was Tsui Hark's work before Wong Fei Hong, that is probably why it doesn't
look like Wong Fei Hong.  Furthermore, Cheng Xiao Dong,  the
martial arts Choreographer of Wong Fei Hong, did not choreograph the fight
scenes in Master.
From: paananen@tuxedo.enet.dec.com (Ed Paananen)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: George A. Dillman?
Date: 18 Nov 92 02:11:18 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Nov17.210510.20095@udel.edu>, weigand@banana.cns.udel.edu (Steve Weigand) writes...
>I've been reading a lot about a karate instructor named George Dillman
>in some of those cheezy karate/kf magazines. He has a series of video
>tapes about how to apply pressure points into fighting - a subject that
>continues to interest me. 
> 
>My question is: Has anyone seen this guy? Has anyone seen any of his
>video tapes?  Is he legitamate? 
> 
>You see, I believe he lives in my area (somewhat close to me), in 
>Reading, Pennsylvania. I think his style is Okinawan Kempo, if I'm
>correct. I may pay him a visit, but I'd also like to hear if anyone
>has seen any of his stuff before going to him.
> 
>Thanks, 
> - Steve Weigand
>  (weigand@ee.udel.edu)
> 

Steve,

I can not say anything of the man "today" however when I met him many
many many years ago, I found him to be a gentleman and a respectable
martial artist. I have not seen his tapes and it is my experiance with 
video is that it is a poor medium when measured to the "real thing". 
Given the opertunity, I would train with him. Good luck with your inquiries.

Ed Paananen	paananen@yamato.lkg.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: More fogey fighting
Organization: National Institutes of Health
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 06:47:12 GMT

In article robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes:
>But keep in mind that this discussion started when some little snotnose 
>punk claimed 10th dans were full of shit and that he could kick butt
>on any 70-year-old he met.

I'm punk/jerk/whatever who started the old fogey fighting thread
by remarking that I had never met a fighter of 70 years or more
who stood much of a chance against a 20 or 30 year old fighter
in his prime, and by asking people who had actually lost to an old
fogey, so defined, to describe the experience.  Results I've
noticed so far include:

   o   No one who actually admits to being whupped by an old 
       fogey.

   o   A number of accounts of dominant fighters in their 40's 
       (sounds right to me!), 50's and 60's.  [But, we are not 
       just talking about mature fighters in general here.  We 
       are talking about the "Master Po" archetype, *really* 
       old fogeys, 70+ year old guys.]

   o   Several first-hand accounts of old fogey victorys over 
       other apparently prime fighters in bouts involving 
       various weapons arts.

   o   A few people who seem offended by the question itself.
--
Richard A. Drury
drury@helix.nih.gov
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485)
Subject: Re: Counters
Organization: SRG, Arinc Research Corp., Annapolis, MD
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 14:25:36 GMT

In article <BxoM3y.G5J@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jl52800@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (The Incredible Mr.Wong) writes:
>I'm just looking for some comments here.....I've seen a lot of demonstrations
>where someone throws a punch or kick at the demonstrator, who then does a 
>whole bunch of stuff to disable to attacker. The demonstrator is usually very
>quick, and it DOES look impressive. But, it seems like the attacker is more or
>less immobile after the initial attack for the benefit of the demonstration. 

	Just a little theoretical point:
	In many of the grappling arts, the idea is that if the opponent gives
up their center to lunge in for an attack, this gives you an opportunity to
shift their center of balance up into their chest - this little shift is
supposed to break their flow long enough for you to apply whatever nasty move
you have planned.
	The "non-demo" versions of these techniques are often very small and
tight, so you don't need such a big opening.

>It makes me wonder how effective these counters would be in real life? I mean,
>I've seen quite a few street fights, and when someone attacks, they keep 
>attacking until it's over. Does anyone have any experience using techniques
>learned in the dojo in a REAL fight, where someone would be actively resisting?

	Not me, but I have met grappling-type instructors who have used these
techniques against "street" attackers (in one case, some guy on PCP)



--
	Stephen Chan
	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net