HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: John.Blumer@p0.f2.n373.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Blumer)
Newsgroups: hsv.general
Subject: Re: Term limits
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 92 06:39:11 CDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:373/2.0 - Gateway, Huntsville AL

 > No, what it will do is move even more political power into
 > the hands
 > of unelected bureaucrats.  When Congressman Moe is forced
 > to leave
 > because of term limits, and Congressman Larry takes his
 > place, you can
 > bet that Mr. Larry is going to hire most, if not all, of
 > the aides
 > that were working for Mr. Moe.  The long serving aides


That would be a first. When a new congressman comes in
they almost always bring in new aides.

 > will work with
 > the long-serving aides of the other congressional seats,
 > not caring
 > who fills those seats, and not having to answer to any
 > voters,
 > advising the seatholder on what to do next.  A lot of this
 > goes on
 > now, but it will explode under term limits.  I have said

How would it explode under term limits? Using your own
argument that aides cause problems, term limits wold greatly
help. Surely you agree that their is greater turn over in aides
when some one new comes in, rather than if the incumbant gets
re-elected. 

 > it many times
 > before:  term limits are not the answer.
 >
Your own argument suggests otherwise. 



--  
 * John.Blumer@p0.f2.n373.z1.FIDONET.ORG via Micro Magic
From: Robert.Wood@f17.n373.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Robert Wood)
Newsgroups: hsv.general
Subject: Re: New subject-Politics!
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 92 12:44:01 CDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:373/17 - NASAU Beach CBIS, Huntsville AL

-> After all, who would vote for a politician who > wasn't going to 
-> do his or her best to bring as much money as possible into > the 
-> local economy (local being defined as the district represented at 
-> any > level). > > REW > -- >  * Robert.Woodf17.n373.z1.FIDONET.
-> ORG via Micro Magic
-> 
-> *I* would. Your assumption as to the primary reason for voting for 
-> a congress critter is the primary problem with congress today - 
-> and is an example of what I call the "tick" mentality - let's get 
-> someone in there who will such the most blood (money) out of the 
-> host (American taxpayer), regardless of the effect on the host. 
-> Most money brought "into your district" is wasted on things that 
-> are highly counterproductive ("pork", "public works", etc.), and 
-> it would be much better for everyone if it were left in the 
-> private sector (where it originated) rather than being taxed in 
-> the first place.



    Thank you for answering a rhetorical question.  

REW



                     ------------------------------------


--  
 * Robert.Wood@f17.n373.z1.FIDONET.ORG via Micro Magic
Newsgroups: hsv.general
From: wilsonk@infonode.ingr.com (Keith Wilson)
Subject: Re: Reagen?  Lousy actor or lousy president.
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 16:02:31 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.140818.7989@infonode.ingr.com>, ellingrw@infonode.ingr.com (Bob Ellington) writes:
> In article <1992Apr9.124207.3460@infonode.ingr.com>, wilsonk@infonode.ingr.com (Keith Wilson) writes:
> > 			SUMMARY:
> > 
> > 4)  Name something that Bill Clinton, Dan Qualye, and Jane Fonda all have in
> >     common.
> > 
> > Keith (give me liberty or give me taxes) Wilson
> > 
> > 	None of them served our country in Vietnam... 
>         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     I was young when Vietnam was going on and I don't really remember ....
> Since when did serving in Vietname make you qualified to be President
> and not serving makes you less qualified?

 	You definitely missed the (point) boat.     THE ISSUE IS:

  DO YOU WANT SOMEONE WHO HAS ENOUGH POLITICAL/MONETARY INFLUENCE TO WEASLE
  THEIR WAY OUT OF DUTY/RESPONSIBILITY RUNNING THE COUNTRY?  DO YOU THINK
  THIS SAME INDIVIDUAL WOULD USURP/CIRCUMVENT THE CHECKS AND BALANCES OF THE
  SYSTEM FOR PERSONAL GAIN (AT THE EXPENSE OF THE LIFE OF OTHERS)?

  others = family_members = friends = neighbors = employees = fill_in_the_blank

> If serving in a war is the 
> only thing that makes a good President then we better plan on killing 
> and having our own killed in wars about every ten years.  

  No thanks, it costs EVERYONE (even social security recipients) TOO MUCH.

  TOO MUCH = lives = dollars = resources = stress_free_living = t.v. coverage =
             fill_in_the_blank

  Again, the point is:

  YOU WOULD HOPE THAT THE LEADER OF YOUR COUNTRY MIGHT HAVE THE CHARACTER AND
  DISCIPLINE TO FACE RESPONSIBILITY/DUTY/OR_WHATEVER_ADJECTIVE_FITS_HERE.

> 
>     Perhaps a President with a strong business sense is what we really 

                               ^^^^^^^^
			you mean any/some/an incling of???

> need.  Deficit this and deficit that, the President is to blame, no the 

  ^^^^
deserve

> Congress is to blame.  NO, I think we the people are to blame!

	What's to blame?  We should be proud of our accomplishments.
	This country has done much in 200 years.  However, a change in
	fiscal policy and those people who establish/regulate same is
	necessary.  Obviously, that won't happen in 1992. 

> Bob (Give me a country where we all fight together as one) Ellington

Keith (no answers, just reality) Wilson
From: John.Blumer@p0.f2.n373.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Blumer)
Newsgroups: hsv.general
Subject: Re: hsv.politics
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 92 06:18:38 CDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:373/2.0 - Gateway, Huntsville AL

 > >However, even if I was aware I probably would have left
 > my message
 > >anyway.
 >
 > Why?  Do you disagree with the way the local echoes are
 > categorized?
 > If so, let the sysops know.  We should use the resources
 > we are given,
 > else risk their loss.
 
My main reason is that most boards do not carry all the echos, such 
as H_Politics. Thus making it hard for others to reply. 
In the case of H_Politics I have never seen it on the boards that 
I normally call, although I have never looked for it.



--  
 * John.Blumer@p0.f2.n373.z1.FIDONET.ORG via Micro Magic
Newsgroups: hsv.general
From: dlb@sunloaf.dazixco.ingr.com (Dave Buehmann)
Subject: Re: Economic recovery.
Reply-To: dlb@dazixco.ingr.com
Organization: Dazix-Intergraph
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 17:06:12 GMT

In article <4388.29E267A9@umagic.FIDONET.ORG>, Rex.Beard@umagic.FIDONET.ORG (Rex Beard) writes:
|> To repeat an observation from Rush Limbaugh (even if he is a Leftist)
|>  
|> Has anyone noticed that we seem to be moving into economic recovery?
|> Has anyone also noticed that the governemt did NOTHING to generate it?

What do you call a 3-4 point drop in the discount rate in a 1 year period?
Did you notice that when the Fed dropped the discount rate by a full point
in December of '91 that the Dow Jones index jumped 100 points in the
following week and 300 points over the next 3 months? [ all numbers
approximate ]

Maybe this doesn't mean much to you, but this allowed me to sell some
stocks (profitably) that had been stagnant for quite some time.
Extra pocket money means more spending money :)).

|> Now perhaps we will learn that the economy goes up and down.  I know 
|> that must come as a suprise to most socialists.
|>  
|> The next time we have a recession and the politicians scream about how 
|> we need to do something about it to jump start the economy, we will be 
|> smart enougto realize that it is uneeded.  THe economy improves without 
|> (And sometimes inspite of) the machinations of government.

One of the reasons the economy didn't recover sooner is the Fed was TOO
cautious and waited until the first recovery fizzled before taking drastic
action.

|> --  
|>  * Rex.Beard@umagic.FIDONET.ORG via Micro Magic

-- 

Dave Buehmann               Voice:    (303) 581-1469
Dazix - Intergraph          Fax:      (303) 581-1461 or (303) 581-0106
6285 Lookout Road           Internet: dlb@dazixco.ingr.com
Boulder, CO  80301          UUCP:     ...uunet!ingr!dazixco!dlb

Newsgroups: hsv.general
From: fordke@infonode.ingr.com (Keith Ford)
Subject: hsv.politics
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 16:46:18 GMT

John Blumer writes:
>However, even if I was aware I probably would have left my message 
>anyway.

Why?  Do you disagree with the way the local echoes are categorized?
If so, let the sysops know.  We should use the resources we are given,
else risk their loss.
-- 
Keith Ford        __  
Intergraph Corp  /  \ Micro Magic BBS 1:373/12  Rush/Opus Archive
fordke@ingr.com  \__/ sysop@umagic.fidonet.org  server@ingr.com
+1 205 730-8614  [__] 830-2362 HST/V32bis 9600  "Subject: HELP"
From: Michael.Konor@p0.f8.n373.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Konor)
Newsgroups: hsv.general
Subject: Re: ac thermostat?
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 06:14:16 CDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:373/8.0 - The Alabama Inferno, Huntsville AL

KF> this cause any harm to the compressor, etc.?  If not, it would not 
KF> be too difficult to build a simple thermostat to do what I want. 
KF> Any suggestions? 

Wouldn't be too hard to build.  Theoretically, you would need a
thermostat and relay setup to kick the unit on and off.  But as far as
damage to the compressor, wouldn't know.

= FSEDv086b =

--  
 * Michael.Konor@p0.f8.n373.z1.FIDONET.ORG via Micro Magic
Newsgroups: hsv.general
From: lhughes@b11.ingr.com (Lawrence Hughes)
Subject: Re: Continuation
Organization: Intergraph Corp. Huntsville, AL
Distribution: hsv
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 13:22:53 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.173843.18906@infonode.ingr.com>, tj@alpine.b17a.ingr.com (T.J. Higgins) writes:
> In article <1992Apr6.205140.16458@b11.ingr.com>, lhughes@b11.ingr.com (Lawrence Hughes) writes:
> |> In article <4338.29DC833F@umagic.FIDONET.ORG>, Rex.Beard@umagic.FIDONET.ORG (Rex Beard) writes:
> |> > Taxes - Jerry Brown is pretty much right. Some type of Flat Tax is best. 
> |> > No Loop holes, no incentives to do strange things with your money. And of course 
> |> > lower taxes. Eliminate Social Security Tax. It is too regressive. 
> |> 
> |> Flat tax, about 5%, no loopholes, eliminate all taxes on business.
> 
> I fail to understand why businesses should not pay their fair share of
> taxes.  Do they not use the government services that taxes pay for?  I
> recently read (can't remember where) that in 1950, individuals paid 
> 50.9% of federal taxes collected, and businesses paid 49.1%.  Today, 
> individuals pay something like 82% of federal taxes collected, and 
> businesses pay 18%.  In my mind, something is amiss here.
> -- 
> T.J. Higgins | higgins@ingr.com | Intergraph Mapping Sciences | Huntsville, AL
> "Time is a gypsy caravan, steals away in the night
>  To leave you stranded in dreamland" -- Rush

Very simple - businesses are transparent to taxes - guess who REALLY gets to
pay their taxes - their CUSTOMERS. Which allows the governement to hide REALLY
high levels of tax from the average Joe by burying them in level after level
of "business" taxes, ALL of which finally get passed on to YOU. Basically,
your attitude is characteristic of capitalist bashers everywhere - you really
resent businesses and wish to punish them for their sins of creating jobs and
wealth, with fines called taxes. Futhermore, the more wealth an INDIVIDUAL
accumulates from such productive enterprises, the more you wish to fine them.

Larry Hughes


Newsgroups: hsv.general
From: tj@alpine.b17a.ingr.com (T.J. Higgins)
Subject: Re: Term limits
Reply-To: tj@alpine.b17a.ingr.com
Organization: The Ernest P. Worrell Institute for the Study of the Vernal Equinox
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 17:58:49 GMT

In article <4398.29E30C24@umagic.FIDONET.ORG>, John.Blumer@p0.f2.n373.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Blumer) writes:
|>  > How do you expect term limits to help?  Do you think it
|>  > will get rid of corruption?  If it does it will be the
|>  > first time in recorded history that there has been a government
|>  > without corruption.
|>  
|> Get rid all corruption? No. Get rid of some corruption? Yes.
|> What I think it will get rid of mostly is politicians bowing to political 
|> pressure so they can get re-elected, rather than doing what is best.

No, what it will do is move even more political power into the hands 
of unelected bureaucrats.  When Congressman Moe is forced to leave 
because of term limits, and Congressman Larry takes his place, you can
bet that Mr. Larry is going to hire most, if not all, of the aides 
that were working for Mr. Moe.  The long serving aides will work with 
the long-serving aides of the other congressional seats, not caring 
who fills those seats, and not having to answer to any voters, 
advising the seatholder on what to do next.  A lot of this goes on 
now, but it will explode under term limits.  I have said it many times
before:  term limits are not the answer.

Does anybody remember the famous "Budget Isolation Bill" that was 
passed a few years ago?  This was supposed to force the state 
legislature to work on and pass a budget bill before considering any 
other business.  It was voted in by a large majority, and everyone 
(including me) felt very good about it.  So what did the legislature 
do?  At the beginning of every session, they suspend the rules, and 
then it's business as usual.

Term limits would have the same effect.  They would make the 
electorate feel good, but not really change anything else.
-- 
T.J. Higgins | higgins@ingr.com | Intergraph Mapping Sciences | Huntsville, AL
"Time is a gypsy caravan, steals away in the night
 To leave you stranded in dreamland" -- Rush
From: John.Blumer@p0.f2.n373.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Blumer)
Newsgroups: hsv.general
Subject: Perot
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 92 06:34:53 CDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:373/2.0 - Gateway, Huntsville AL

>-> He succesfully ran EDS and while on GM's board constantly pointed
>-> out GM's errors (looking back and what is going on now with GM,
>-> Perot was proven correct).
>
>
>    In the end, he sold out his position on the board.  While I'm 

not
 
"sold out" is not quite true. Forced out is closer to the truth.
Although he did get a sizable sum of cash to leave.
 
>against Perot, I certainly don't know enough about him to think 

that he
> is qualified for the office of president.  Not yet at least.
 
I will agree with you here, I would like to hear far more about him,
other than how his past business deals went.
 
>     On the negative side of the whole GM story it bears stating 

that,
>instead of sticking with what I've heard described by Perot supporters
> as a "Battle to Save GM," he cashed in and went to work elsewhere.
 
Per an article on what happened in the Wall Street Journal
a couple weeks ago, the basic facts are:
1) GM bought EDS out and gave Perot a seat on the board and some 
GM stock.
2) Perot tried to make changes to GM, but the majority of the board 
was
aganist him.
3)After trying for a couple of years and realizing he did not have 
any
power to create change with the present board, he did accept a healthy
package offered by the board to get out.
 
 
>     Replace "board" with "congress" and suddenly the whole GM story 

can
>take on a new light.  As I said, I don't know enought about the 

guy to
>make such a judgement, but I have NEVER heard anyone else even try 

to
>criticize that action.  Perhaps it should be thought about.
 
An interesting point, however not to applicable to being president. 
Since
the president has a lot more power to creat change than a single 
board
member.
 



--  
 * John.Blumer@p0.f2.n373.z1.FIDONET.ORG via Micro Magic
Newsgroups: hsv.general
From: rick@seminole.b11.ingr.com (Rick Hopkins)
Subject: Re: Hsvl/Madison County Money 
Reply-To: b11!seminole!rick@ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corp. Huntsville, AL
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 13:24:06 GMT

In article <4454.29E8D677@umagic.FIDONET.ORG>, Michael.Konor@p0.f8.n373.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Konor) writes:
|> Once again it seems that Huntsville and Madison county are bent on
|> wasting a large amount of initial money and a continual waste of money on
|> the recent project to install all these UNNEEDED highway lights.
|> 
|> The ones I've noticed the most are the ones in the Rideout Road/I-565,
|> Sparkman/I-565, and Old Madison Pike/I-565 areas.  Our "knowledgeable"
|> goverments seem to think that a 90 foot pole topped with massive amounts
|> of candlepower are a necessity on some of these roads intersections.
|> Many times there are 3-4 on one interchange.
|> 
|> WHY!!!!!!!!!
|> 
|> If it's dark, you have headlights on.  Their not in areas where people
|> walk (to protect from crime).  And they surely make the people mad that
|> live close to these interchanges to see a small sun in their windows all
|> night long.

For your sake I hope you never have to change a flat tire on the side of a 
dark road.  

rick hopkins

|> 
|> It really amazes me in these times of decreasing school budgets that
|> waste like this always crops up.  The cost of erecting/installing one of
|> these lights compared to the education of a classroom of students, I'd
|> have to go with the classroom of students.
|> 
|> Who's paying who what??
|> 
|> = FSEDv086b =
|> 
|> --  
|>  * Michael.Konor@p0.f8.n373.z1.FIDONET.ORG via Micro Magic
|> night long.
From: Brian.Tatro@p0.f14.n373.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Brian Tatro)
Newsgroups: hsv.general
Subject: Term limits
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 92 20:31:45 CDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:373/14.0 - The Aviation BBS, Meridianville AL

Hi there,
Hate to bud in, but we already have term limits in place. All the people 
have to do is vote those out of office that they do not want.


--  
 * Brian.Tatro@p0.f14.n373.z1.FIDONET.ORG via Micro Magic
From: Bryan.Durio@p0.f7.n373.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bryan Durio)
Newsgroups: hsv.general
Subject: Politics...
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 92 07:52:00 CDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:373/7.0 - The Trading Post, Huntsville AL

Chris Spray wrote to All:

CS:Does everyone remember when the word, "Religion" was in the subject 
CS:line? Well, I was asked to move the dicussion to H_RELIGION.  
CS:Now, the subject is politics, but no one is saying a thing 
CS:about.  We do have a H_POLITICS, you know....Looks as if I 
CS:might not be the only bigot around here! :)

Oh, go cry in your spilled milk, Chris.

bryan





--  
 * Bryan.Durio@p0.f7.n373.z1.FIDONET.ORG via Micro Magic
From: Robert.Wood@f17.n373.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Robert Wood)
Newsgroups: hsv.general
Subject: RE: Perot
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 92 23:06:50 CDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:373/17 - NASAU Beach CBIS, Huntsville AL

-> >     Replace "board" with "congress" and suddenly the whole GM 
-> story can >take on a new light.  As I said, I don't know enought 
-> about the guy to >make such a judgement, but I have NEVER heard 
-> anyone else even try to >criticize that action.  Perhaps it should 
-> be thought about.
-> 
-> An interesting point, however not to applicable to being president.
->  Since the president has a lot more power to creat change than a 
-> single board member.

     I think its very applicable in this siutation.  The only real power the president has is the ability to take an issue to the people.  If you don't think the Congress can stonewall the president, look at the last 4 years!  If Bush had been able to actually enact the policies that he campainged on, I think you will agree that the nation would be in an entirely different situation (A matter of opinion as to "better" or "worse." let's avoid that one ! ;-) ).

     The only way real changes can be make under the direction of a single individual is if he or she can get a clear majority of the American people to send an unambiguous message to Congress.  When the smoke clears, no matter how many new faces end up in Washington, no matter what party ends up on top, the same old politics WILL be there.  The same political intertia will be there, "electronic town hall", "term limts," or whatever.  

     Going back to what I was thinking about before, would Perot find that after a few years of getting no results and being fought at every corner that it would be better to just leave again?

     Either one of two situations seem to be the case:

(1.  Perot is being honest and really doesn't want the job.  In that case, he would be much less inclined to want to put up with the fight.

(2.  The whole campaign is based on a lie (or at least mis-direction) and he really wants the job.  In that case,I do not want someone in office who won't even be honest about wanting the job.

     The whole campaign just feels wrong to me.  Every thing I hear about it just sets off my internal fraud alarm.  It just doesn't seem to wash.

REW



                     ------------------------------------


--  
 * Robert.Wood@f17.n373.z1.FIDONET.ORG via Micro Magic
From: John.Blumer@p0.f2.n373.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Blumer)
Newsgroups: hsv.general
Subject: Re: Term limits
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 92 06:26:24 CDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:373/2.0 - Gateway, Huntsville AL

 > Hi there,
 > Hate to bud in, but we already have term limits in place.
 > All the people have to do is vote those out of office that
 > they do not want.
 
Someone else already metioned this. If this was a perfect world, 
with voters who knew how their incumbent voted, I would agree. However 
this not a perfect world and term limits is bandaid solution which 
would help.



--  
 * John.Blumer@p0.f2.n373.z1.FIDONET.ORG via Micro Magic
Newsgroups: hsv.general,ingr.general
From: lawson@infonode.ingr.com (Becky Lawson)
Subject: Community Project
Keywords: Japanese Garden
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 15:59:51 GMT

Dear Fellow Netters:

I am writing on behalf of Robert Black, a local artist and landscaper, who for
the past 2 1/2 years has devoted his time and efforts to the Japanese Garden 
located in Monte Sano State Park.  If you are not familiar with this garden, 
it is located at the entrance to the park next to the country store.

As with all community projects each cannot be successful without the help of
volunteers who give of their time and their money.  Robert has reached a point
in the project where he needs additional funding.  You can make a difference in 
the completion of this project by making a tax free donation.  If you choose
to help by sending a personal check please make it out to THE JAPANESE GARDEN,
MONTE SANO STATE PARK.  By putting the Japanese Garden on your check they
can use the funds immediately without having to go through the bureaucratic
channels.  The address to mail your donations:  

     Monte Sano State Park
     JAPANESE GARDEN
     5105 Nolen Ave.
     Huntsville, AL  35801.

This is something that we all can enjoy.  For the best effect of the garden, 
plan to visit just after a rain shower and you will see the plants in their
full beauty.  The funds you send in now will be used toward the completion
of the tea room being built.  

For further information please contact Becky Lawson 730-6822 (w), 533-0739 (h),
or Robert Black 883-8047, or calling the Park Office directly at 534-3757.
Thanks in advance for your help:)



Newsgroups: ingr.general,hsv.general