HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Stores can't "detain" shoplifters
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:09:23 GMT
Organization: Logicon Technical Services, Inc.

In article <C1HoCw.FLp@boi.hp.com>, tommy@boi.hp.com (Tom Peterson) writes:
...
> This brings up an interesting example which was covered in the local
> news (Boise, Idaho) this summer, and has since been very quiet.
> It was reported that an older gentleman (50's maybe) was stopped 
> in the parking lot of our HOMEBASE store by 2 store employees.
> He was accused of shoplifting (and apparently was quilty), it is
> unclear whether he was beaten or ?, but he died of a coronary in
> the HOMEBASE parking lot.
> 
> It seems to me that whether this man was quilty or not, excessive
> force was used and contributed to his death.  The strange part
> is that the media has been quiet since the week of the incedent.
> No word as to whether HOMEBASE paid off the family, admitted quilt
> or ???

	IMO, it depends on how much had been lifted.  If it was felony
(unlikely) then HOMEBASE has little to fear (unless it's in Alabama :). 
Otherwise they probably cut a check.
	You have right to protect your home against burglars, but not to rig up
a loaded shotgun to fire when a door is opened, for example.

> Just thought this might add a little fuel to the fire.  So how far
> can a store goon go, before there are legal ramifications?
> Tom Peterson
> tommy@boi.hp.com

	When I worked for a dept. store and at OSU security, the rules were the
same: put yourself in front of the suspect and make it seem that you will
prevent them from moving (known as the "boxing in" strategy), but do not touch. 
The police will apprehend.
	We could, of course, make a "citizens arrest" at any time, but the
criteria was a crime in progress that required our intervention (eg rape).

	I think it depends on the circumstances.  We'd be vindicated in a rape
situation, but not in a spray-painting situation.

Brett
"The opinions and views expressed here are strictly my own and do not 
necessarily reflect the official position of either the U.S. Air Force 
or its contractors."
From: camerons@NAD.3Com.COM (Cameron Spitzer)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Bay Area Consumer Magazine
Date: 27 Jan 93 01:45:41 GMT
Reply-To: cls@truffula.sj.ca.us
Distribution: ba


In article 260193144129@maca511.mv.us.adobe.com, [Patrick] writes:
>Recently I read in the paper that some company based in Oakland is starting
>some sort of bi-monthly Consumer Magazine for the Bay Area.
>
>Does anyone know their address and phone number?

I've been getting _Bay Area Consumer's Checkbook_ for a couple of years,
and it's GREAT!  It alternates every other month between a magazine
format and a bargain price sheet.  They run an annual table of auto
shops, sorted by county and rated by customers.  Also extensive
restaurant reviews.  The bargain sheet lists discount prices and locations
for appliances etc.  I think it was $32/year, a bargain at twice the
price.  It's a non-profit with no corporate influence (no ads), kind of
a local Consumer Reports.  Your unidentified newspaper could have just
caught on to it, or it could have new competition (real or phony).

Bay Area Consumer's Checkbook
39 Russell ST
San Francisco, CA 94109
(415) 397-8305

There's also a version for D.C. supported by the same foundation. 

Cameron
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg)
Subject: Re: Making your own cheques...
Organization: Hatch Usenet and E-mail.  Playa del Rey, CA
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 04:38:53 GMT

In article <28555@sybase.sybase.com> joe@sybase.com (Joseph Weinstein) writes:

>Is this off base?

No.

>Can I use cheques I've made myself by duplicating cheques issued
>from the bank or cheque printing firm?

Legally, yes but expect lots of grief from your bank.
My suggestion is don't.
-- 
Rich Greenberg      Work: rmg50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com   310-417-8999
N6LRT               Play: richg@hatch.socal.com       310-649-0238
What?   Me speak for Amdahl?  Surely you jest....
From: Dmerrill@bnr.ca (Dana Merrill)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Mail Order Coffee
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:53:11 GMT
Followup-To: misc.consumers
Organization: BNR

Due to numerous requests I am posting my mail order coffee source:

Nicholas Coffee Co.
23 Market Place
Pittsburgh, Pa 15222
412-261-4225
800-621-4225

I generally get together a group order with my co-workers to keep the
shipping costs down.  Generally runs around $0.35 per pound.  You can buy
in 1/2 pound increments which allows you to sample.  Takes about 2 days (if
I order in the morning) UPS to me in central NC.  Most coffee is $4-$5
except for the exotic ones of course (Blue Mountain is $19.99).

I'd suggest a call to ask for their brochure.  I have no connection.

dam  

==================================================================

Dana Merrill                                Bell Northern Research
DMerrill@BNR.CA                         Research Triangle Park, NC
==================================================================
From: rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Greedy Banks Re: Banks that offer debit cards???????
Date: 21 Jan 1993 20:21:58 GMT
Organization: Bolt, Beranek & Newman, Inc.
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: spcsun25.bbn.com

In article <1993Jan21.050045.17633@netcom.com>, timlee@netcom.com (Timothy J. Lee) writes:
[referring to BayBank in Massachusetts]

|> So why are they still in business?  If they have such annoying charges
|> and fees, why don't their customers just use some other bank?

Because they have automatic teller machines about every 500 feet
all over Boston and its suburbs.   It's hard for me to think
of any place that isn't a short walk from one of their ATMs.

-- 
Ron Newman		rnewman@bbn.com
From: sandya@hpfcmdd.fc.hp.com (Sandy A)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 23:13:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Making a purchase with a check
Organization: HP Mechanical Design Division
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Distribution: usa
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

 How widespread are "check guarantee cards"?

Well, I've got one, and I like it.  I once had a problem with the bank
(too long of a story to tell here) where they messed up my account and
bounced some checks that they shouldn't have.  The ones with my check
guarantee number on it were paid; the others sent back.  So even though
it wasn't my mistake, I still had to deal with the merchants who got
returned checks.

I now write the number on *all* my checks (memorized all those numbers!  :-)
just as a precaution.  The thing that bugs me is some people have
scribbled it out, saying they aren't allows to write it on checks.
They think it's a credit card number.  I tell them it's a check guar.
number, and they say, "Oh, we don't need that; just a license."  but
"just a license" means the check will be returned if the bank (or even
myself -- yes, it happens) make a mistake.

Question: it's my check, shouldn't I be able to put whatever I want
on it, as long as there's no law against it?

btw, lots of people seem impressed that I memorized the number.  I also
memorized my license number and usually write that down to -- saves *lots*
of time at the register.

Sandy
From: tzs@carson.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: KMart's policy if items scan at the wrong price.
Date: 21 Jan 1993 10:09:42 GMT
Organization: University of Washington School of Law, Class of '95
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

In article <C0wH3C.66I.2@cs.cmu.edu> murthy+@EDRC.CMU.EDU (Sesh Murthy) writes:
>I just bought an item (STP oil treatment) from Kmart(at the
>Monroeville storin Pittsburgh) and the price marked on the
>shelf was $1.42 and the price on the bill was $1.77.  Normally
>all stores where this happens refund the price of the
>item.  I even thought this was the law.
>
>The manager at the counter was very rude when I told her that
>returning $0.35 was not sufficient restitution.  When I called

 $1.77
-$1.42
------
 $0.35

I'd be very curious to hear under what theory you claim that $0.35 is not
sufficient restitution.

--Tim Smith
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: an8130@anon.penet.fi
Subject: Lightweight bullet-proof vests illegal?
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: misc.consumers
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:49:17 GMT


I'm in the market to purchase a lightweight bulletproof vest (downtown
in the U.S. city I live in can get pretty rough, but I don't want to
be burdened down by a heavy bullet-proof vest).

The guy in the next office tells me that the lightweight bullet-proof
vests are illegal except for police, secret service, etc (cuz they
don't want criminals to be immune to police bullets, etc).

Can anyone verify this?  Is it illegal:

a) for a person to sell me a lightweight bullet-proof vest,
b) for me to purchase a lightweight bullet-proof vest,
c) for me to be in possession of a lightweight bullet-proof vest.

How many of the above are true?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned.
From: mds@condor
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Seeking info: VCR Voice Remote
Date: 25 Jan 93 21:49:32 GMT
Reply-To: mds@condor.nsc.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: NSC


I recently saw one of those "infomercials" for a VCR Voice Remote.
This remote is entirely voice activated. It is a "smart" remote
that can learn four voices, and operate your VCR, TV, and Cable box.
It sells for about $149, and is purchased through an 800 number.

Does anybody have any experience with one of these? Do they work
as well as they claim? Any info regarding this product would be
greatly appreciated.


   
   (_________   ____    ____             
     )   )   )  /   )  (   /           - Standard Disclaimer Applies -
    /   /   /  /   /    \      mds@berlioz.nsc.com  //  Santa Clara, California
___/   /   /__/___/__(___)  ____________________________________________________/
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Toll Roads (was: Speeding ticket in OKlahoma --- what's SP8?)
Date: 27 Jan 93 02:59:22 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Summit NJ

>When I lived in Ma back in the early 80s, there was a big story on how the
>law authorizing the Mass Pike clearly stated that when the bonds that funded
>the Pike were paid back, the road was to be become a non-toll state highway.
>When that date was about to roll around (in the 80s) there was some quick
>action to change the law so they could keep it a toll road and collect all
>that money.

At least there was a law.

When there was serious talk about getting rid of the tolls on the Garden
State Parkway, a few of the legislators who were around at the time
the road was authorized (about 37 years ago) remembered that there was
talk about removing the tolls once the bonds were all paid off, but
it never was part of the law.
-- 
Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: sed@oclc.org (Steve Driscoll)
Subject: Re: Discover Card - Pffffft!
Organization: OCLC Online Computer Library Center, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 13:55:57 GMT

I have to admit that I've been happy with my Discover Card.  Once I was even late
with my payment, and they refunded my interest charge (without any action on
my part, talk about surprized!)  Anyways, I have an open mind about other
cards, so I'd like to hear about all the other cards that offer you cash back,
or some other enticement, don't require that you borrow a lump sum of cash at
the beginning (I've seen this twice!), and have no annual fee.  I'll summarize to the net.  Thanks!
From: nassio@head-cfa.harvard.edu (George Nassiopoulos)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: PEPSI CLEAR & TAB CLEAR
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:19:35 GMT
Organization: Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA,  USA

From article <7399.25.uupcb@uttsbbs.uucp>, by neil.black@uttsbbs.uucp (Neil Black):
> 
> It clearly says on the label that this is a cola without the color, but
> it tasted nothing like cola--it was waaaaaay worse.  It tasted like
> carbonated sugar water with a hint of urine.  I'm serious.  The
> aftertaste was truly a gastronomical nightmare.  Very bad.  Only for the
> serious collector.
> 
I've tried Pepsi Clear -- it ain't that bad -- it ain't good, but it ain't
that bad ---
To me it tastes very much like flat Sprite --- they need more carbonation.

BTW, how do you know what urine tastes like? :-)

george nassiopoulos
nassio@cfa.harvard.edu
From: bobw@procase.com (Bob Weissman)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Oct 1992 Consumer Reports
Summary: It's on CompuServe
Date: 23 Jan 93 01:59:14 GMT
Reply-To: bobw@procase.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: Procase Corporation, San Jose, CA, USA

In article <1993Jan20.135718.2103@xylogics.com> geier@xylogics.com (Marcia Geier) writes:
>Does anyone have a copy of this issue of CR?

Just for everyone's information, data from Consumer Reports are available
electronically on CompuServe.
From: spikes@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Bill Spikes)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Deer Whistles
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:51:56 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA

Oh YES! They do attract deer. While cruising in Ontario in a big rush
to catch the boats that would ferry us to an island for a week of fishin',
(a good reason to speed if I've ever heard one) I saw a deer about a 1/4
mile ahead of us, maybe 30 feet off the road. I was driving a large Dodge van
with lotsa chrome and good paint, and two new deer whistles. Easy to see
and hear! Also, the headlights (high beams) were on.
It was at dawn with maybe 2/3 full daylight.

The deer looks up and stares at us, I turn off the lights and start to
disengage the warp engines. As we get closer, the deer shakes its head,
grabs some food and looks back at us as we are still approaching.
By this time we're at about 30-40 MPH. The deer is still standing there
staring at us, and then, as we pull along even with him (we're doing less
than 30 MPH now) he/she runs straight at the van, full bore, and I hear a 
thunk in the left rear 1/4 panel. The thing RAMMED us!

I stopped, got out, and looked back. The deer looked at me, shook its head
and bounded off into the woods. I pushed my Dad back in the van as he was 
now very wide awake and attempting to get out and see what *I* had done to
his 'baby' (the van). When we arrived at the docks, he checked out the van
for any damage. Other than a tiny tuft of hair stuck in a crack where the 
tailight meets the sheet metal on the side, there wasn't any damage, even
though that dumb deer was trying.

No, he wasn't blinded by the headlights, they weren't adjusted up high enough
and I turned them off as soon as I saw the deer. He was attracted by
those deer whistles or he didn't like Dodges.


Another data point in the saga of deer whistles......

Bill
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg)
Subject: Insurance taxation
Organization: Hatch Usenet and E-mail.  Playa del Rey, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:36:22 GMT

A few years ago, the IRS snuck in something that has been helping
to reduce our spendable income, and many people are not aware of
it.  Many employers provide term life insurance for their employees,
typically at 2 or 3 times your yearly salary.  How many of you are
aware that your paying income tax on part of the premiums the
company pays for this insurance?

Well, you are because the new rule that went in around 5 years ago
considers the premiums for the portion of this insurance over $50k
of coverage to be taxable income to you.  Look closely at the W-2
which should be arriving around now.  Look for an item labeled
GTL or some similar abbreviation showing (typically) a few hundred
dollars under "adjustments to income" or some similar heading.
You are taxed (at your marginal rate) for this amount which never
reached your pocket.

Now if you are married with a family,  the tax is a lot cheaper
than the same coverage would cost you elsewhere.  For singles
with no dependants like myself who don't want to give the feds
a penny more than I legally must,  its a rip-off.
For familys,  if you already have coverage thru a spouse or
otherwise, decide on an individual basis if you need the coverage.

There is an out however.  Just tell your benefit-droids to cap
your coverage at $50k.  They may not be familiar with this rule
and/or otherwise resist,  but if you insist they MUST do it.
(I am not sure, but I think this out is part of the same IRS rule.)
-- 
Rich Greenberg      Work: rmg50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com   310-417-8999
N6LRT               Play: richg@hatch.socal.com       310-649-0238
What?   Me speak for Amdahl?  Surely you jest....
From: Tom Haberlandt <haberlat@ccmail.dayton.saic.com>
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: PEPSI CLEAR & TAB CLEAR
Date: 25 Jan 1993 15:24:41 GMT
Organization: SAIC
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: haberlandt.dayton.saic.com
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d11
X-XXMessage-ID: <A789708684011AA1@haberlandt.dayton.saic.com>
X-XXDate: Mon, 25 Jan 93 14:25:10 GMT

In article  Tom G. Krajna, krajnatg@infonode.ingr.com writes:
>Okay, it's clear that no one seems to like the new stuff.  But am I
missing
>something here about it *tasting* so different?  Didn't they just ditch
>the coloring, leaving the flavor alone?  Can you identify Pepsi Clear in
>a blind taste test vs. Pepsi Unclear?

I don't think it really tastes that bad.  Its kind of a Sprite with a 
cola-like taste.  

What really seems to suck is Pepsi's marketing. Nearly every 
person posting expected it to taste like Pepsi - it doesn't - so
naturally everyone thinks it sucks !

The articles in the newspaper seemed to indicate that Pepsi
Clear (or whatever its called) is a new recipe.  It does not
have caffeine, coloring, or the carbonation that Pepsi has.

__________________________________________________
Tom Haberlandt	| haberlat@ccmail.dayton.saic.com
SAIC		|
Dayton Ohio	| #include <standard-disclaimer.h>
From: lsnow@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM (Linda Snow)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Oct 1992 Consumer Reports
Date: 22 Jan 93 17:42:26 GMT
Reply-To: lsnow@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM (Linda Snow)
Distribution: usa
Organization: NCR E&M CLEMSON Liberty, SC

In article <1993Jan20.135718.2103@xylogics.com> geier@xylogics.com (Marcia Geier) writes:
>Does anyone have a copy of this issue of CR? I understand there is a
>comparison study of Interplak vs. Braun. I am very interested in this
>article and wonder if anyone would be willing to mail me a copy? I would
>be happy to pay for any copy fees and will send a SASE if desired.

It would be easier on everyone if you just went to your local library
and copied the relevant pages.  Most libraries have copiers at 10-15 cents
per page.
.
.
.
.
.

Newsgroups: misc.consumers,misc.misc,soc.culture.usa
From: pbwhite@rodan.acs.syr.EDU (White)
Subject: Insane NYC Tolls
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 08:28:59 EST

At least they have a reason for keeping the NYC Tolls insane.  If the tolls
were any cheaper, every person would drive over the bridges, tunnels and get
into the city - an then, as if there isn't enough traffic already - we'd
really have a jam.  

Brian
From: asa@STL-07SIMA.ARMY.MIL (Will Martin on 7000)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re:  Need help in resolving lawyer's bill dispute!
Date: 26 Jan 1993 15:10:51 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

I thought most local bar associations had arbitration and complaint 
panels to review just this sort of dispute...
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Cordless phone makes funny noises
Date: 24 Jan 93 20:10:46 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio

In article <1717@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM> lsnow@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM (Linda Snow) writes:
>I've had my (Panasonic) cordless for a few months, and it just started
>doing this a few days ago.  I hear sort of popping noises and the party
>on the other end can hear them too.  Changing the channel doesn't always
>help.  It seems to be better if I hold the phone away from my head a
>little bit, but that's pretty inconvenient.  Could it be caused by
>static electricity? (We have had some pretty cold weather lately). It
>doesn't affect the quality of the sound but it's annoying.  

Are there any flourescent lights near the phone or the base set?

If so, try to move the base far away from any flourescent lights,
and try to keep the handset away too.  This might help a lot.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Subject: Re: Insurance question
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 05:58:27 GMT


>>What do you mean?  I thought my medical record is private.  Or
>>did you mean they check with my doctor(s)?
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Yep

Read the fine print next time you sign an insurance form.  You waive
privacy in order to have the claim paid.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: bdewey@grok116.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Bob Dewey)
Subject: Kitchen Aid mixers
Organization: NCR Corp., Columbia SC
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 17:34:20 GMT

I am looking for a mail order (read inexpensive/discount) source for a Kitchen
Aid food mixer. I am looking for the larger size where you move the bowl
up to the beaters rather than having the head tilt.

Someone posted a similar query a short time ago but I did not see any
responses. 
-- 
Bob Dewey                       e-mail: Bob.Dewey@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM 
Customer Satisfaction, MSBU        fax: (803) 739-7317
MCPD Columbia                    phone: (803) 791-6425 or VoicePlus 632-6425
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: lola@lucid.com (Lola McCrary)
Subject: Re: Mail Order Coffee
Followup-To: misc.consumers
Organization: Lucid, Inc.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 04:27:44 GMT

In article <Dmerrill-250193132901@47.140.3.220> Dmerrill@bnr.ca (Dana Merrill) writes:


   In response to numerous requests I am posting the info. on the mail order
   coffee that I mentioned in an earlier post (Gevalia thread).

   Nicholas Coffee Co.
   23 Market Place
   Pittsburgh, Pa 15222
   412-261-4225
   800-621-4225

   dam  

I just tried this 800 number and was referred to the 412 number.

Lola
Newsgroups: misc.consumers