HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mbb@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (martin.brilliant)
Subject: Re: Shutting down Geocomm
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 20:58:44 GMT

Sorry if I appeared to be harping on my carping.  I was looking for
more information; basically, I was hoping somebody could prove me
wrong.  I guess I gave the wrong impression.

From article <Sep.14.14.17.52.1992.17223@pilot.njin.net>, by birchall@pilot.njin.net (Shag):
> .....
> I don't know if what you're doing is the same as what I'm doing, but I've 
> had no problem running Zmodem as an external protocol - which does use the
> task swapper.  
> 
> As I've mentioned tons of times, I've got DTR recognition turned off on my
> modem.  When I pick "Startup" and "Download" from the Express Menu, Taskmax
> adds a task for Zmodem, and _somehow_, control of the com port [com2 in my
> case] is transferred to the Zmodem task.  Personally, I think it's some sort
> of magic... maybe the people at DR and Geos stuck lots of pins into a voodoo
> doll of whoever designed the com port spec.

No different, basically, from what happens when a DOS comm program
passes control.  One difference is that since GeoComm is your regular
comm program, you've got the modem set not to recognize DTR.  I can
understand what that does when GEOS shuts down: it allows the modem to
stay connected when GeoWorks drops DTR.  But I don't understand why
GEOS refuses to swap out if the modem recognizes DTR.  Does GEOS know
whether the modem recognizes DTR?  Or does it swap out if you hit the
download button, but not if you try to swap out any other way?  If
that's it, then you can't use Zmodem with the MS-DOS 5.0 swapper.

Anyway, from here on it's the same as DOS.  The comm program stops
responding to input from the COM port and gives up control.  Zmodem
grabs the COM port interrupt, by writing into the interrupt table the
address of the code it will execute when a character is received, and
starts responding.  When it's finished, it puts the previous address
(which it saved) back into the interrupt table, and returns control to
DOS, which returns control to the comm program.

							Marty
marty@hoqaa.att.com		hoqaa!marty
Martin B. Brilliant		(Winnertech Corporation)	
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
From: mbb@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (martin.brilliant)
Subject: Re: Dogma
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 22:07:38 GMT

From article <513@grot.ca41.csd.mot.com>, by CHEESE%ETDAI2.decnet@etd88a.mdc.com (CHEESE B-}):
> ....
> I can see already that MBB will never change his views even if GWE became the
> first sentient operating system ever built....

If GWE became a sentient operating system, I would love it.  At the
risk of seeming to carp, I can't help pointing out that sentience
would remove most of the deficiencies I've been complaining about.

> ...  I'm truly sorry that MBB cannot find the time to adjust his system config
> to accomplish what he wants, or has noone to help him get there....

Don't feel sorry for me.  My system config was fine until I started
experimenting with GWE.  And I've got it all back now the way it was.

> MBB reminds me of those dogmatics in the Pro-Choice (read Pro-Death) Pro-Life
> (read Pro-Anti-Choice) debates.  Neither will ever be convinced or persuaded
> of the other side's merit.  Anyone in the middle will be laced with et
> (oops) epithets and accusations.  Hmm... sounds pretty much like this weekend 
> on this list.  

There are perfectly good reasons why Pro- and Anti- Choice/Life
advocates will never persuade each other.  The basic reason is that
neither faction says anything that hits the other faction where they
live (so to speak).  Does that sound familiar?

If GWE changes (or even if it doesn't, but my needs change) my opinion
of it will change.  Your needs may vary, and I can believe that it's
the greatest environment you ever had.  However, you are right in one
respect: if GWE doesn't change, and my needs don't change, my opinion
of it will not change. 

> Martin, do a couple low level formats on your drives and purge them of the 
> viperous Geos that lurks in the magnetic media....

It's easier than that.  I used a PRUNE utility that removed all the
files in the GEOWORKS directory and all its subdirectories with one
DOS command.  I know where I put the extra GEOS.BAT files and I
deleted them.  I packed up all the software and manuals and put them
in the original box and mailed them back to GeoWorks for a refund.
The marks on the magnetic media don't bother me.

> .....  And delete the address of 
> pcgeos-list from your mail file.  Live and let live, okay?

Shag wondered how GEOS passed control to Zmodem, and I tried to answer
that to the best of my knowledge.  After a while I will lose interest
in this thread and stop posting to this newsgroup, and shortly after
that I will stop reading it, and you can forget that there is anyone
in the whole world who did not like GWE at first sight.  Okay?

							Marty
marty@hoqaa.att.com		hoqaa!marty
Martin B. Brilliant		(Winnertech Corporation)
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
Subject: Re:Shutting down Geocomm - WHY????
From: campbell@bach.udel.edu (L L Campbell)
Date: 14 Sep 92 12:52:06 GMT


I have put Martin B. Brilliant in my kill file for news & mail so that
I will not have to read his constant harping about Geoworks.

Marty, if you don't like GeoWorks DON'T use it but please spare the
rest of us your carping about the product.

LLC.
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
Subject: Re: Background file format conversion
From: ACDH083%SAUPM00.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU (Nasir Haniffa)
Date: 10 Sep 92 12:51:46 GMT


If you have the gws file format converter.. then evry thing is easy..
Or find a way to PCX convert your GIF. and reduce the color to 16 with statndar
d color palettes. Load it in GeoDraw. Copy it to scrabbook. Call background fro
m preferences. Use scrabbook as background. give filename when prompted..
be happy..

Nabil
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
From: mbb@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (martin.brilliant)
Subject: Re: RE: Shutting down Geocomm
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 11:44:25 GMT

From article <1992Sep12.022734.18772@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, by johnm@cory.Berkeley.EDU (John D. Mitchell):
> Okay, let's see...
> 
> GeoComm:
> 	It's got problems...  As for the connection being
> dropped when you task switch...  The manuals pretty clearly explain that
> task switching halts all of GEOS (which, of course, means that you cannot
> multi-task non-GEOS applications)....  As
> for the silliness about not warning the user about disconnecting the modem
> when you task switch...  That's a 'missing feature'.  :-)

I don't mind halting.  When I jump to DOS out of the terminal emulator
I'm using now, or out of most shareware terminal emulators, the
terminal emulator halts.  Exactly that: it halts.  While it's halted,
the modem keeps the connection up, because the terminal emulator
didn't tell it to take it down.  I can even do a warm reboot without
losing the connection.  GeoComm doesn't just halt - it actively tells
the modem to hang up.  That's my complaint.

> Generally Unsatisfied Comments:
> 	Did you ever run MS-Windows version 1.x?  If you had I think you
> might have a different outlook....

That's the version I have.  I've tried Windows 2.0, and it's not
fundamentally much better.  It's not very useful, but it does obey
certain rules of common courtesy that GEOS overlooked.  I never tried
Windows 3.x because I'm still running on an XT clone.

> ....  The thing is that GEOS has an
> incredible amount of "I can't believe that they could do that on a high end
> machine let alone an old wimpy PC!" features as well....
> ...  GEOS's underlying technologically advanced design and
> implementation has much more room to grow into the next century than any
> commercial platform (even the amazingly vapor OS, Windows NT, is merely a
> marketing stop-gap until MS can complete its 'Cairo' supposedly object
> oriented OS).

I'm not all that impressed.  GEOS is not a full OS, because it depends
on MS-DOS for system services.  It doesn't even attempt as much as
Windows, because Windows attempts to multitask DOS applications along
with its own, while GEOS stays strictly within its own little World.
So GEOS naturally can achieve much greater stability than Windows, or
even OS/2, which tries to juggle Windows, DOS, and OS/2 apps
together.  I'm startled that GEOS doesn't follow along with that
stability idea - it doesn't surprise the user by failing accidentally,
but it surprises the user by dropping connections unnecessarily.
Technologically, GEOS is a successful implementation of a limited idea.

> P.S.	I must be biased since I work for GeoWorks.  I speak herein solely
> 	and expressing for my self.  GeoWorks speaks for itself (and I
> 	think that it speaks quite well :-).

Thanks.  GEOS spoke to me, and the above is what I heard.

							Marty
marty@hoqaa.att.com		hoqaa!marty
Martin B. Brilliant		(Winnertech Corporation)
From: pat@berry.Cary.NC.US (Pat Berry)
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
Subject: Re: Mahjongg for Geos
Date: 14 Sep 92 00:38:30 GMT
Organization: Berry Communications

ted@helios.ucsc.edu (Ted Cantrall) writes:

> Is there a version of Mahjongg for GW? I saw a Mahjonng tile set for
> down-loading, but I've never heard of the game being available.

I have that tile set, but it's not what you think.  It's a set of tiles
for Nels Anderson's DOS-based Mahjongg game, consisting of various icons
and other graphics taken from the GeoWorks interface.  In other words,
it's not a tile set for a GeoWorks Mahjongg game -- it's a set of
GeoWorks-related tiles for Mahjongg.

My apologies if you were talking about something else.

-- 
Pat Berry - Cary, North Carolina, USA   | Dave Barry for President
pat@berry.Cary.NC.US                    |  "He Probably Won't Use
**** Happy user of OS/2 2.0 ****        |     Nuclear Weapons"
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
Subject: Re: GUI/character-based app size (was Re: Shutting down Geocomm)
From: campbell@bach.udel.edu (L L Campbell)
Date: 14 Sep 92 05:26:58 GMT


Such blathering. I have put Martin B. Briliant in my mail & newsgroup
kill file so I don't have to be botherd with his constant harping.

If GeoWorks does not work for you, then don't use it but spare the rest of
the world your carping.

LLC
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
From: mbb@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (martin.brilliant)
Subject: Re: Shutting down Geocomm
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 11:53:20 GMT

From article <Sep.11.23.36.39.1992.26122@pilot.njin.net>, by birchall@pilot.njin.net (Shag):
> ....
> I'm running GEOS under DR-DOS taskmax, and you can jump from GEOS to DRDOS
> without shutting down GEOS.  Taskmax just swaps it out.  

AHA!!!  So much for GEOS being an operating system.  As far as DR-DOS
is concerned, it's just another DOS app.  Beautiful.

> Conveniently, the gurus at Geoworks and Digital Research collaborated nicely,
> so that a TaskMax Control panel is actually part of the express menu when 
> GEOS is run under DR-DOS.  Pretty nifty. 

I was going to give GeoWorks Pro back for a refund, but I might almost be
persuaded to keep it and buy DR-DOS to go with it.

Does it do the same thing under MS-DOS 5.0?  I have that, though I'm
not using it now - it's incompatible with some other things I use
occasionally, like DoubleDOS.

On the other hand, the disk space GeoWorks takes up is the last straw
on my hard drive setup - it ran me out of space and I had to archive a
lot of stuff just to get it loaded.  And I'm not really interested in
most of the stuff it has.  It's not just an operating environment,
it's a package, take it or leave it.  I guess I'm just not taking it.

							Marty
marty@hoqaa.att.com		hoqaa!marty
Martin B. Brilliant		(Winnertech Corporation)
From: birchall@pilot.njin.net (Shag)
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
Subject: Re: GeoWorks has no CLOCK?!?
Date: 12 Sep 92 17:55:09 GMT
Organization: Screaming in Digital, the Queensryche Net Digest

shadow@r-node.gts.org (Jay Chu) writes:

>With all the good stuff Geos has, how come it doesn't have a clock?

GeoPlanner has a clock, and the entertainment pack includes a clock.  Or, you
could just run GeoComm and connect to a computer that tells you what time of
day it is.  [I don't even have a clock in my room.]

-sh
-- 

     Freedom belongs to only those without video screens for eyes and mouth.
		- Queensryche
From: birchall@pilot.njin.net (Shag)
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
Subject: Re: Shutting down Geocomm
Date: 12 Sep 92 18:02:50 GMT
Organization: Screaming in Digital, the Queensryche Net Digest

mbb@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (martin.brilliant) writes:

>From article <Sep.11.23.36.39.1992.26122@pilot.njin.net>, by birchall@pilot.njin.net (Shag):
>> ....
>> I'm running GEOS under DR-DOS taskmax, and you can jump from GEOS to DRDOS
>> without shutting down GEOS.  Taskmax just swaps it out.  

>AHA!!!  So much for GEOS being an operating system.  As far as DR-DOS
>is concerned, it's just another DOS app.  Beautiful.

>> Conveniently, the gurus at Geoworks and Digital Research collaborated nicely,
>> so that a TaskMax Control panel is actually part of the express menu when 
>> GEOS is run under DR-DOS.  Pretty nifty. 

>Does it do the same thing under MS-DOS 5.0?  I have that, though I'm
>not using it now - it's incompatible with some other things I use
>occasionally, like DoubleDOS.

Not everything you can run from the command line is a DOS application, Martin.
*Grin*

As for nifty interfacing with MS-DOS's task swapper... Lose, lose, from what
I've heard.  After all, why would Microsloth cooperate with someone who's
going up against them in the GUI market?  Digital Research isn't making enough
money off GEM on the PC anymore to be paranoid about working with Geoworks.
MS has the biggest share of the market, so, naturally, they've got the most to
lose. :)

-Shag

[By the way, since I gave the answer to your modem problem in my first response
and haven't seen any mention of it since (and oddly, it wasn't answered by 14
other people, like things on Usenet uusually are), I presume you got it fixed?]


-- 

     Freedom belongs to only those without video screens for eyes and mouth.
		- Queensryche
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
From: cjl9333@usl.edu (Legrand Chervit J)
Subject: pcgeos rel 1.0 and icons
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 12:34:08 GMT

well my problem is that the release i have is rel 1.0 and i would like
to use the icon maker and program launcher but it tells me that the 
release i have cannot run the programs because they are to new for this
release. 
i would like to know if this is correct or am i doing something wrong
also if the error is correct where can i get an upgrade to the new
release without paying an arm an leg for it.   

thanks again for any help


Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
From: shadow@r-node.gts.org (Jay Chu)
Subject: GeoWorks has no CLOCK?!?
Organization: Public Access UNIX Information System
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 01:24:13 GMT

With all the good stuff Geos has, how come it doesn't have a clock?
-- 
       ||/|/|/|
       |      |    If it's there and you can see it       -- it's real
       |      |    If it's not there and you can see it   -- it's virtual
       | (o)(o)    If it's there and you can't see it     -- it's transparent
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
From: mbb@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (martin.brilliant)
Subject: Re: Shutting down Geocomm - WHY????
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 11:25:51 GMT

From article <510@grot.ca41.csd.mot.com>, by CHEESE%ETDAI2.decnet@etd88a.mdc.com (CHEESE B-}):
> ....
> Why did you jump to DOS to check your files?  GeoManager is by definition a
> file system manager.  The way it's suppposed to work is that you resize the
> GeoComm screen or jump directly to the GeoManager screen using the Express
> menu.  At that point you can use the A: B: C: buttons to pull up whatever
> directory you feel is needed.....

I've already explained that in a previous article.  GEOS does not have
a lot of shareware (nor much payware, either).  Sometimes it takes
shareware to make the jump of generality that some utilities need -
specifically, from looking at ONE directory at a time to searching ALL
directories at one time.

> .....  I only have one hard drive but am reasonably certain that
> GeoManager can address all the drives you have installed (John M. can correct
> me if I'm wrong on this point)....

That's another gripe I have about GEOS.  It certainly can address
every drive I have.  It also addresses drives I don't have.  When I
installed DoubleDisk I gave the new virtual disk a letter that was not
consecutive with the drives I already have.  When GEOS fires up it
gives me two "... Abort, Retry, Fail?" messages for the drives that
are missing in the sequence, and I have to answer before GEOS will
continue.  It's common for network drives to be given letters near the
end of the alphabet; I wonder what GEOS would do in a case like that.

							Marty
marty@hoqaa.att.com		hoqaa!marty
Martin B. Brilliant		(Winnertech Corporation)
From: gnd@sawtooth.idaho.amdahl.com (Greg Darnell)
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
Subject: Enough Already! (was Re: Shutting down Geocomm)
Date: 14 Sep 92 15:47:28 GMT
Followup-To: alt.msdos.pcgeos.advocacy
Organization: Amdahl Corp., Rexburg, ID

Okay, GeoWorks and its applications have some flaws - even one of their
employees admits it in this newsgroup.  It can't be everything to 
everybody!  

Personally, I think it's got the best price/performance I have seen in
10 years of buying personal computer software.  I don't know of any 
other way of getting a state-of-the-art GUI, a pre-emptive multi-tasking
OS, with a very useable WYSIWYG word processor, a limited but sufficient
(for me) comm program, and numerous other applications, that will run
on an XT and runs nicely on my AT laptop.  Even if someone were to throw
together a similar package from competitors, it wouldn't be able to
compete in price/performance.  That's why I'm sticking with GeoWorks.

I have some problems with their emphasis on support via AOL.  It would
cost me $9/month to keep my AOL account active but unused, or $15/month
if I used the 3 "free" hours (telco toll charges).  That means access to
support would cost as much as the package cost me in 4-7 months!  Paying
2-3 times the purchase price PER YEAR for support is a little extreme.
However, since I haven't needed tech support yet, it doesn't bother me
too much; I can try my luck with phone or mail support if necessary, or
better yet AOL will come up with a no-minimum usage-based account type 
some day, in which case I might get an account there.

Well, that's way more than my $.02 worth.  Let's get back to some useful
discussions and drop the original thread, or go create the group in my
followup line and continue the rantings there.

Greg
-- 
 Greg Darnell    Amdahl Corporation    143 N. 2 E., Rexburg, Idaho 83440
  UUCP:{ames,decwrl,sun,uunet}!amdahl!tetons!gnd          (208) 356-8915
  INTERNET: gnd@idaho.amdahl.com
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
From: uds@parvathi.cs.wayne.edu (Seetamraju)
Subject: Geo-Installationon RAMDRIVE ?
Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit, MI
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 17:24:40 GMT


Will the following work ?

Install geoworks on a ramdrive (immedietly after booting up your PC)
assuming ofcourse that you have about 3 Megs of Extended memory atleast
(i.e., a total of 4 megs in your PC AT).

Immedietly after installation, copy the geoworks from Ramdisk to HD
using either XCOPY or PKZIPing etc...

Now, everytime you boot your computer, copy the whole HD copy of Geos back
to RAMDISK, and then start Geos.  Will this be acceptable to the security
features of geos ? (Whenever I copied the Geos-that's-installed-on-HD to
RAMDK, and then started it, Geos would ask for the serial number.  The
net result being that I can remember that serial number better than I can
remember the Credit card PIN # or my soc.sec.#.)

Any body out there with better knowledge of geos and its working, and who
can mouth  sentences other than std.discl.


Seetamraju Udaya Bhaskar Sarma
(email : seetam @ ece7 . eng . wayne . edu)

P.S> My request might be a little strange, but I use FAX and calculator software
that mess up geos.  It isnt Geos but the other two programs that are the cause
of the problem.  So I am unable to use the DOS5.0 task switching.  and I am
having to start and stop Geos pretty frequently...
From: birchall@pilot.njin.net (Shag)
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
Subject: Shag's silly Zmodem chart...
Keywords: Forgive me, it's 4 AM.
Date: 9 Sep 92 08:17:36 GMT
Organization: Screaming in Digital, the Queensryche Net Digest

Okie... let's see, how's this work...

		Express-Menu	Fast Return	Option to DOS

MSDOS5/GWPro	No		Yes		No
Tweaked INI	No		No		No
DOS5/Lnchmakr	Yes		No		Yes
DRDOS/Taskmax	Yes		Yes		No

Having run Zmodem from GEOS under all of the above setups, I must say, you
can get some pretty different reactions out of things. :)

The current setup is DR-DOS 6, with Taskmax active, and a Launcher for Zmodem.
So, it pops up on the express menu, I click it, and the launcher gets set to
launch... then Taskmax says, "no, wait, let me handle it," so the Zmodem gets
Taskmax'ed, then it swaps right back into GEOS, leaving the launcher sitting
there wondering what the heck happened. :)

Must admit, though, it works like a charm.  When I first got Launchmaker, I 
said I wished there were a way to disable the prompt-before-return feature of
it.  There is.  Taskmax. :)

-Shag
-- 

     Freedom belongs to only those without video screens for eyes and mouth.
		- Queensryche
From: birchall@pilot.njin.net (Shag)
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
Subject: Re: Shutting down Geocomm
Date: 16 Sep 92 01:36:33 GMT
Organization: Screaming in Digital, the Queensryche Net Digest

mbb@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (martin.brilliant) writes:

>That was what I thought.  They interact in that download button.  But
>nobody will believe me because I don't like GeoWorks.  :-)

>Actually, it must be GeoWorks that won't allow the swap, not DR-DOS,
>because I don't have DR-DOS, and I got the same message when I tried
>to swap out using the task swapper in MS-DOS 5.0.

Actually, I should note that the "download button" is actually a launcher,
made with LaunchMaker [which is available via FTP from sites supporting GEOS].

I can double-click on the launcher in GeoManager, but since I rarely have a
GeoManager window open when it's not absolutely necessary, I use the express
menu means of accessing the launcher instead.

The launcher would normally shut down GEOS and run a compiled batch file, 
which passes parameters to Zmodem.  TaskMax starts up a task for that com file,
and all runs fine.

I presume it would work about the same way if someone just double-clicked on a
batchfile in GeoManager to start things up, but I'm not positive.

-Shag


-- 

     Freedom belongs to only those without video screens for eyes and mouth.
		- Queensryche
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
From: phurley@tamu.edu (Philip W. Hurley)
Subject: Re: Shutting down Geocomm
Organization: Computer Technology Group, TAEX
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 04:05:41 GMT

> From article <1992Sep12.115320.20417@cbfsb.cb.att.com> mbb@cbnewsb.cb.att.
com (martin.brilliant) writes:


>I was going to give GeoWorks Pro back for a refund, but I might almost be
>persuaded to keep it and buy DR-DOS to go with it.

Yes, GW + DR-DOS are the ideal set up right now.

>Does it do the same thing under MS-DOS 5.0?  I have that, though I'm
>not using it now - it's incompatible with some other things I use
>occasionally, like DoubleDOS.

Quoting from the GW-Pro Addendum: "GeoWorks Pro is fully compatible with
several DOS task switchers--including the latest entries, MicroSoft's DOS
5.0 Shell and Digital Research's DR DOS 6.0 TaskMAX."
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos