HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: iew21308@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Ian E. Wickram)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Crowley's Soul and Annata
Date: 7 Apr 92 23:09:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: ux1.1992Apr7.230921.15767
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana


	I don't know how found any of you are of Crowley's auto-hagiography
but in it I have come to notice a large inconsistency (heavens no!). Normally
these sort of things rarely bothered me about Crowley but as I am currently
exploring Buddhism, it does.  As most of you are aware I'm sure, Frater      
Perdurabo was want to borrow or absorb many ideas from Buddhist teachings, yet
it seems to me like many Western sholars of the time he never trully absorbed
the truth of Annata into practice which is a central doctrine of the Dharma.  
Annata if you are unfamiliar with Buddhist Dharma is a rather puzzling doctrine
to Westerners as it basically states that humans have no permanent self, or
soul.  Yet I find Crowley constantly suggesting or expressedly stating a  
permanence of self even though one can of course find exceptions, and even
n accurate description of Annata in the Confessions.  I find this point highly
troubling personally as I approach Buddhism and look back to what I've revered
before.
					And the Cloud Upon the Sanctuary,
						remains to this day,
							Yrs,
								Ian
								Wickram!!!
						    iew21308@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu   


Be Realistic,
Expect a Miracle!
Bag. Shri Raj.
From: tncp9@isuvax.iastate.edu (D. Pendragon)
Subject: The Tower again!
Reply-To: tncp9@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 22:52:10 GMT

Hello!

Well, I thought I would post the sequence to get to the Tower bbs that I run in
a COMPLETE form this time, as just in the past hour I got 4 calls (then again
maybe it was the same person) from people trying to get into the bbs.  
OTay:

I am open from 10pm to 11 am (Yup, it uses my one and only phone).  So if you
call earlier, you are getting me instead of Lyssette (er...Lyssette is the name
of my compter system--please excuse it, I'm a computer engineer).
So!  Here it is:

Call by phone if your not long distance OR have no access to telnet to:
515-296-5474

]If you have access to telnet (like most VAX users often do) then you can save
a long distance phone call by doin' this:

type 

telnet  129.186.99.31		(at your prompt)
modem				(at our DIAL prompt.  Be patient and repeat if
				the system is being stubborn.  Usually it's
				only because a lot of people are doing this)

atdt 65474			(after you see the modem facility reply with
					ANSWERED)

and wallah!  You'll soon be in.

Okay.  Why the hell am I posting this here?  It's because I am trying to get an
area in my bbs (specifically area 6) called the Catacombs started.  This is a
magick and mythology discussion area much like the alt.xxxxxxx groups. 
However, it is free for those who have access to telnet.  Especially nice if
you can use telnet but must pay to subscribe to news groups.  I hope some of
you are willing to check it out!

Regards!

D. Pendragon

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Call me or EMAIL this account if you have any questions at all.  One day I'll
even get caught up on this news group too...
From: mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Ritual Magick Experiences
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:34:02 GMT
Organization: School of Mathematics, University of Bath, UK

In article <1992Apr12.230126.28846@acsu.buffalo.edu> oispeggy@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes:
>In article <1992Apr12.210932.10514@gdr.bath.ac.uk>, mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf) writes...
>>In article <Gerald_Del_Campo.0031@sorinc.UUCP> Gerald_Del_Campo@sorinc.UUCP (Gerald Del Campo) writes:
>>>In a message dated Sat 11 Apr 92 06:35, Joshua@coombs.anu.edu.au (joshua Ge
>> 
>
>You don't understand what magick is supposed to be.  You obviously 
>haven't made an effort to find out.  If you can't be bothered to find out, 
>then why bother airing your opinions?  Simply jump to your conclusion that we 
>are deluded and not to be trusted, then get lost.  I can live with that.
>

I have too made an effort.  I've read lots of stuff by Crowley. I've been
to seminars with Gareth Knight and Delores Ashcroft-Norwicki.  I've read
quite a bit of Regardies stuff as well.  Finally,  I've posted on this
newsgroup to try and get some more info.  At least one person has actually
given me some useful information.  The rest just attack me because they
don't want to give me any useful information.  My only response is that
I can only conclude that you don't have any useful information to give,
because you are hiding behind religious excuses.

>Don't owe you any explanations.
>
Then what's the point of having a newsgroup if people don't want
to explain their Magick?

>- Peggy -
>
>Pssst:  Scientists tend to find out what they're talking about before they 
>        talk about it.

Pssst:  Religious Freaks tend to attack people and not their arguments,
because they don't have any sound basis from which to make a reasonable
response.
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: fl0p+@andrew.cmu.edu (Frank T Lofaro)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: straight A's/occult ftp/telnet
Date: 7 Apr 92 08:39:22 GMT
Organization: Freshman, Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from alt.magick (USENET): 7-Apr-92 Re: straight A's "
mayor@ic17.ee.umanitoba.ca (676)

>In article 60@edit.mndly.umn.edu, bahn@edit.mndly.umn.edu >(Christopher
Bahn) writes:
>>In article <92081.115319REGHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> >REGHC@CUNYVM.BITNET writes:
>>
>>>Yes I want to get A's in college, How is this possible? Is this some kind
>>>of gimmick?
>>It's MAGICK, of course.

streidel@cmcvx1.claremont.edu. (the one that posted the original post to
the *entire* USENET) has been removed from existance (no longer just is
the account suspended, its gone). Now that *is* magick in my book. One
little incantation by the local Wizard (sysadmin) and he's history.

By the way, any one know of any good (or even not so good) occult telnet
bbs's or ftp sites?
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: dantonio@magick.tay2.dec.com (David D'Antonio)
Subject: Re: What is reality?
Reply-To: dantonio@flashy.tay2.dec.com
Organization: None to speak of...
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 21:49:19 GMT


In article <1992Apr5.223050.10775@mailer.cc.fsu.edu>, rose@fsu1.cc.fsu.edu (Kermit Rose) writes:
|>What is reality?

For an informative look at modern "scientific" theories that attempt
to answer this question (and for a look at just how bizarre quantum
theory can get), see the book "Paradigms Lost" (I forget the author).
This book is about how "science" has changed our view of Life, the
Universe and Everything. The author looks at 6 (I think) "big
questions" and shows the different competing theories, in sort of a
courtroom style. Then, the jury (really the author) votes. But, of
course, you can form your own conclusions, too...I'm currently reading
the "What is reality" chapter and he's addressed both sides (static
reality and "user created" reality) in detail. Haven't read the
"verdict" yet, though...:-)

|>Kermit@FSU or rose@fsu1.cc.fsu.edu.bitnet
|>This is the signature file of Kermit Rose.

Way longer than 4 lines. You're destined for Hell...[see
rec.humor.funny...]

|>What determines the existence of Free Will?

Chaos theory currently gets my vote.

|>I strive to believe only what is true. I have faith that whatever is 
|>true will also be logically consistent and knowing truth will increase my 
|>capacity to be kind.

Define true. True for everyone? True for you? True for all time?
Currently true for you? The Truth shall set you free, but first it'll
piss you off.

|>Peace is the way to peace.  Hostility is the way to hostility.

And what do you do when you're attacked?

Devil's Advocate,
DDA

--
dantonio@magick.tay2.dec.com -or- dantonio@sword1.enet.dec.com
  I've tried to dance with what life had to hand me
    My partner's been pleasure, my partner's been pain
				-Stevie Nicks
From: misha@netlink.cts.com (Michael Glosson)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Sex Magick
Date: 13 Apr 92 04:25:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: netlink.oHJ6iB1w164w
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

> >> Can anyone help me in finding out about Sex Magick?I know very little
> >> about it and wish to know from an academic viewpoint.Possibly I may
> >> consider practising if I find a worthwhile cause and the rites are
> >> agreeable.
> >> 
> > 
> >Why do you want to practice sex magick?  
> > 
> >m
> 
> Why not?
 
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
 
That reply only works for Carl Carcher and his Hamburgers.  While there
are many variants on Sex Magick, the central discipline of most Sex Magick
is that the practitioner does not even think about sex outside of a magical
context.  That means you don't end up being distracted by the critter in
the tight leather mini skirt.
 
Love is the law, love under will.
 
m

--                    
INTERNET:  misha@netlink.cts.com (Michael Glosson)
UUCP:   ...!nosc!ryptyde!netlink!misha
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 435-6181
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: AS.AAM@forsythe.stanford.edu (Astrid Mustard)
Subject: Re: Money for Magick?
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 18:47:49 GMT

I didn't know it was a taboo.  I personally don't do it because I
do feel it is not within my moral parameters.  I don't care what
anyone else does.  I guess the point is that if a person feels ok to
take money for magic, then by all means - do it.  If not - don't.
From: shava@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Shava Nerad Averett)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Asatru, Was Re: Request for info on Celtic/Norse Myths and Practices
Date: 14 Apr 92 22:31:13 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

In article <joshua.702999470@coombs> joshua@coombs.anu.edu.au (Joshua Geller) writes:
>voudon is an afrochristiansyncretism ('voodoo'). these are actually
>religions, strictly speaking, not magickal traditions (though voudon,
>inparticular, incorporates a lot of magickal practice).

Either of these religions are distinctly more yoruban/west african
in their magickal paradigms than they are christian in their magick.

A few books of interest to people who want to find out more (which happen
to be sitting on my desk at the moment...)...

	Bastide, African Religions of Brazil
		 Toward a Sociology of the Interpenetration of Civilizations
		 Johns Hopkins U Press, 1978, Baltimore (english translation)
		 (actually this has little to do directly with santaria
		 or voudon, but it's really interesting anyway)
	Davis, Wade; Passage of Darkness,
		 The Ethnobiology of the Hatian Zombie
		 UNC Press, 1988
		 Has a lot on the pattern of social structures involved in
		 the culture of Voudon
	Gonsalez-Wippler, Migene; Santaria, the Religion
		 Harmony Books, 1989

All three authors have additional titles on the same general subjects.

/* yes, eddie, I will get them back to the library real soon... */
-- 
Shava Nerad Averett				shava_averett@unc.edu
/*  all materials (c)1992, Shava Nerad Averett, and have nothing significant
    to do with the University of North Carolina, a mostly owned subsidiary 
    of the NC Legislature, a mostly owned subsidiary of the DOT.      */
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: cs202315@umbc5.umbc.edu (cs202315)
Subject: Magick & Astral Projection
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus, Academic Computing Services
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 17:29:59 GMT


  Would Astral Projection fall under the field of Magick?

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: n8743494@henson.cc.wwu.edu (The Stranger)
Subject: Re: Girl with a problem
Organization: Western Washington University
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 17:03:19 GMT

I have to agree with John on this one, Tarot does not cause those problems 
IMHO.  However, they could be caused by an gulity conscience.  It she,
perchance, an 'good' christian or are her folks?  IMHO this were these 
feeling may be coming from.

Of corse it could be some spirit that is lusting after her :-) :-).

The Stranger

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: tncp9@isuvax.iastate.edu (D. Pendragon)
Subject: Re: Asatru, Was Re: Request for info on Celtic/Norse Myths and Practices
Reply-To: tncp9@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 05:10:56 GMT

In article <92100.000148IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>is there room in asatru for a somewhat individualistic lesbian
>feminist?  i've been intrigued by it for quite a while - that
>

Asatru...May I ask, what is that?

>Voudun, on the other hand, i don't get into further because i
>                                      -ailsa
Once again, my lack of knowledge on this surprises me.  What is Voudun?
Do these things require one to be female in order ot practice it?  Is it a
magickal tradition?
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: rjb@milton.u.washington.edu (LeGrand Cinq-Mars)
Subject: Re: Please REPLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 23:29:28 GMT

The amusing technical point implicit in this is that in order to
protect oneself magically one disbelieves in the magic that one
believes in.

To put it another way, the closed-minded disbeliever barges into the
holy places of the heathen, steals the gems from the idols' foreheads,
and comes away unscathed (barring a run-in with some arrow poison).
You know the movie.  Or the missionary zealot.  Or for that matter
the shrewd merchant manipulator, who thinks of all those paper dolls
people stick pins into as advertising, and puts out a set himself --
but far more amusing.

("I don't care what you print about me as long as you get my name right.")

Then there's the usual Superstitious Crew, quavering and moaning and
rolling their eyes, ready to believe anything that will justify running
to some rescuer into whose pockets they can pour the local currency.

("I bought a ouija board three years ago, after I brought it home I
locked it in a closet, and haven't opend it since.  Every time I go by
that closet I can feel evil thoughts pouring out, even after I pasted
a big picture of Aleister Crowley over the door.  Do you think I'll
be safe if I burn the house down?  Or will it follow me anyway?")

There are other ways of dealing with this.  One is the pleasantly
paradoxical one already brought up.
  (a) for magic to work, one must buy into it;
  (b) I don't want it to work, and I don't buy into it;
  (c) therefore it doesn't work (as with advertising)--
  (d) that's how I know it works 

Then, when all else fails, there is the Path of Insufferably Superior
Spirituality, which allows one to prevail in adversity ("Yea, even
though mine enemy hath tossed me into a pit full of rabid badgers,
I know that all that happeneth unto me is a special dealing of
my Holy Guardian Angel with my prophetic soul").  A good last resort,
but a difficult mantra for those who lisp.  This is why all magicians
need to take elocution lessons.

--LeGrand
:
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Thursday, 9 Apr 1992 00:01:47 EDT
From: Ailsa N.T. Murphy <IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Asatru, Was Re: Request for info on Celtic/Norse Myths and Practices

is there room in asatru for a somewhat individualistic lesbian
feminist?  i've been intrigued by it for quite a while - that
and Voudun - but have never really approached, for various
reasons, mostly because it seemed rather male, and i wasn't
(and still am not) sure how much personal variation is allowed...

Voudun, on the other hand, i don't get into further because i
am a European-American (read, white girl), and i'd feel like a
cultural imperialist.  one thing about asatru, at least, i have
a right to consider practicing it, as almost all of my ancestry
is celtic or germanic (english, irish, scots, german, french,
german-jew, and micmac or passamaquoddy, i forget which).  there
are already a number of touches from northern european practices
in my belief and ritual system, partially because they make so
much more sense for maine than something based on an english
climate...
                                      -ailsa
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: joshua@coombs.anu.edu.au (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: Money for Magick?
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
Date:  9 Apr 92 05:36:37 GMT

miss059@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Pug) writes:

>In article <1992Apr8.161052.8045@acsu.buffalo.edu> oispeggy@ubvmsc.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes:
>>>>I would say that anyone who charges money for magick will get what is
>>>>coming to them.
>>> Money is more of a social trophy than a material object.
>>???
>>I equate money with physical freedom.  The more money, the more choices I 
>>have about physical things - 
>>  *what* I want to do, 
>>    *where* I want to be, 
>>      *what* I want to be surrounded by, 
>>        *who* I want to associate with, 
>>          *when* will I do whatever.

>These are all social aspects of life. Spiritual aspects are not based on
>the amount of money you have.

>>Physical freedom is not more important than spiritual freedom, emotional 
>>freedom, or whatever other freedoms there are, and too much emphasis on the 
>>pursuit of money seems to mess up these other freedoms.  Maybe because 
>>people tend to see money as more than it really is and get trapped by the 
>>demons of image, lifestyle, fashion, upward-mobility, etc...

>This is what usually happens with money. You end up being worried about
>it and what it can do for you. How to get more, how to keep it, etc. I
>feel that the more adept of the magickians aren't as worried about this
>than they are about spiritual gain. I could be completely wrong, but
>they seem to be conflicting ideas to me.

sorry, peggy's right on this one and you're wrong pug. if your true will
is *not* being a sadhu or something similar (a bum?), and granted that
the medium of exchange in the society that we all live in is indeed money,
a certain amount of it (not necessarily a very large amount) is 
necessary. 

you are of course entitled to disagree; since it seems you *do* disagree,
you can send all of your money to me at the following address:

Joshua Geller
PO Box 1326
Tucson, AZ
          85702

credit cards are accepted (just send the cards and a power of attorney)
and after you liquidate your other assets and get a refund from your
school for the classes you won't be taking the rest of this year (since
coming to this decision) you can send that along too.

I have noticed that the idiots who say stuff like you just pooted forth
there have never themselves lacked for anything. I wonder why that is?

josh
From: mayor@ic10.umeeng (Cam "You didn't see me!" Mayor)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Ritual Magick Experiences
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:05:51 GMT
Reply-To: mayor@ic10.umeeng
Organization: Sun Microsystems

In article 22774@gdr.bath.ac.uk, mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf) writes:
>
>personal account.  I think its sad that people have to cloak magick in
>so much secrecy.  I'm convinced that it's the secrey that keeps it
>from being practiced more widely, and it also makes people feel more
>threatened by it.

  I don't know if I speak for anyone else here, but to me magick  is
personal and generally is not shared with others without a bond of
trust.  Also, for me magick is something that is not within the realm
of linear explanation such as that provided by english.  Almost inherently,
anything I were to say about it would be 'wrong' because of the 
incredible limitation set by common language.  The latter reason is 
something that I have been working for years to attempt to overcome, but
there is still much work to be done.  Magick will find you if you let it.

---
--------------------------------------------------------------------
------"It's about time to change that tired old .sig, cam."---------
----------- email: mayor@eeserv.ee.umanitoba.ca --------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Santeria
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 00:56:31 GMT

Luis Sanchez <LSANCHE@auvm.american.edu> writes:

>Esta alguno interesado en discutir Santeria?

Yes, but in English, please.

              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Weird! :-)
From: dantonio@magick.tay2.dec.com (David D'Antonio)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Gender Differences (was Re: masonic morals & dogma)
Date: 10 Apr 92 21:06:53 GMT
Reply-To: dantonio@flashy.tay2.dec.com
Organization: None to speak of...



General Note: This probably doesn't have much to do with magick so
feel free to either take it to E-mail or alt.flame...Nor does it have
much to do with the Masons, since I'm not one...

That said, I must admit I sat on my hands through this thread. But, it
seems to me there is an assumption being made, namely that men and
women aren't different in any significant way with regards to magick.
So, the questions I'd ask are:

1. Are men and women different at all?

2. If so, does this difference influence magickal ability?

3. If so, is it general or only for certain types of magick or rituals?

4. Can the differences, if any, be worked around?

Of course, the politically correct answer is that, while men and women
are clearly different, it couldn't possibly make any difference and
I'm a cretin for even asking these questions!

I submit, however, that the "real" answer is that yes, men and women
are different by virtue of having difference psychochemicals flowing
through their blood (and brain) from day 0 (thanks for Shava for this
notion).  Now, if one bases one's magickal philosophy on
psychological/brain states, having different psychochemies guiding
brain development and thought patterns for N years is damn well gonna
make a difference!

If one bases one's magickal philosophy on external entities, I suppose
it would depend on the personality of the entity involved if they
would have any preference.

One could also posit that men have an edge in certain types of magick
and women have an edge in other types, just as men have a physical
edge in upper body strength and women have an edge in endurance. But
my belief is that the edge, if any, is slight enough not to make a
difference until "peak levels" were reached. Same with physical
differences; there are lots of women who have more upper body strength
than I and I've got more endurance than many women. And no, I'm not
going to speculate which magicks EITHER gender would have an edge in! ;-)

As for the Masons, this also bugs me. It seems that it's fine for
women to have women-only colleges, circles, festivals, etc., but if
men have them, it sets off a firestorm. Strikes me as very
hypocritical. And last I checked, the Masons were a private group so
they can have any rules they want, non? I'm bummed they won't let
women in and I'm bummed the women-only circles won't let me in, either.

Now, where'd I put that flame-retardant??

DDA

--
dantonio@magick.tay2.dec.com -or- dantonio@sword1.enet.dec.com
  I've tried to dance with what life had to hand me
    My partner's been pleasure, my partner's been pain
				-Stevie Nicks