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Approved-By:  "Leslie M. Haas" <LHAAS@KENTVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 11:08:24 EDT
              <LIBREF-L@KENTVM.BITNET>
From:         "Christine M. Darby" <cmdarby@oswego.OSWEGO.EDU>
Subject:      searching in the chaos

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

In working on a collection development project, I came up against, again,
the problems of cataloging, subject terms and shelving.  The group used is
History of Russia and Soviet Union.  According to the  shelf list there are
781 titles.  According to the online catalog there are 683
but......included in these are not only history-history but history of
education, LB call number, literary materials, PN call numbers and Art - N
call numbers.  AT least 25% of the volumes identified online as history
aren't shelved with history, probably rightly so.

However, to begin with there was a difference of 100 volumes between the
shelf list and the online catalog, with the shelf list revealing more
titles than the system and subtracting these other volumes as not history,
as in political, social, economic, left the online system with about 550
volumes compared to the close to 800 from the shelf list.  How these
almost 250 items were entered into the online system is a valid question.
For the student who begins their search with 'history-russia' they are
going to miss items.  And to add to that, while browsing has its value, if
this type of discrepancy occurs on a group this small what's the
discrepancy size in a larger group, say American history, where browsing
is less feasible.

It's definitely a real issue, for the librarian and the user, and I doubt
one which will be resolved easily.  Until this recent discussion I thought
I had a couple of ideas worth trying; now I'm not so sure.  Essentially it
meant being able to identify sources more definitely, but if cataloguing
itself is incomplete and shelving about the same ........

Next chapter.

Chris Darby
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Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:10:52 EDT
From:         zane_clark@csufresno.edu
Subject:      RE: lesbian/gay librarians
              "RHADDEN%USGSRESV.BITNET@kentvm.kent.edu" at Nov 20, 92 3:45 pm

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
  >
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >Yes, the profession has a responsibility to respond to these issues.
>
>         . The library profession needs to address
> library issues, which are the areas of our competence. We can get too
> caught up in social causes, political fights, religious issues and other
> non-library tussels that distract, divide and can destroy our professional
> organizations.
>
> lee hadden
>

amen.
--

Zane Clark
Library Instruction Coordinator
California State University Fresno

zane_clark@csufresno.edu

******************************************************************

"Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without
 losing your temper or your self-confidence."
                                             Robert Frost
******************************************************************
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Approved-By:  "Leslie M. Haas" <LHAAS@KENTVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:40:46 EDT
              <LIBREF-L@KENTVM.BITNET>
From:         Diane Kovacs <DKOVACS@Kentvm.Kent.edu>
Subject:      Thanking our ever-supportive Computer Services Professionals

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

Dear Libref-l participants,

The co-moderators of Libref-L would like to recognize the good help and
steadfast support of the computer services professionals that help us
to keep Libref-L running smoothly.  Christine Shih (shih@kentvm or shih
@kentvm.kent.edu) and John Atkinson (atkinson@kentvm or atkinson@kentvm.kent
.edu have been with us from our beginning.  Now that we have over 2,100
participants their job of keeping the LISTSERV software running, upgrading
it periodically, vetting errors and bounced mail has been increased
proportionately.  Please feel free to send them e-mail messages thanking
them for supporting Libref-l so well.

Cordially,
The Libref-L Co-moderators
******************************************************************************
                         LIBREF-L Moderators
                          Reference Office
                   Kent State University Libraries
                          Kent, Ohio 44242
                        Phone:  (216)672-3045

Reference Librarians:   BITNET:                 Internet:
_____________________________________________________________________________
Laura Bartolo           LBARTOLO@KENTVM         LBARTOLO@KENTVM.KENT.EDU
Gladys Bell             GBELL@KENTVM            GBELL@KENTVM.KENT.EDU
Mary Du Mont            MDUMONT@KENTVM          MDUMONT@KENTVM.KENT.EDU
Paul Fehrmann           PFEHRMAN@KENTVM         PFEHRMAN@KENTVM.KENT.EDU
Diane Kovacs            DKOVACS@KENTVM          DKOVACS@KENTVM.KENT.EDU
Leslie Haas             LHAAS@KENTVM            LHAAS@KENTVM.KENT.EDU
Carolyn Radcliff        CRADCLIF@KENTVM         CRADCLIF@KENTVM.KENT.EDU
Kara Robinson           KROBINSO@KENTVM         KROBINSO@KENTVM.KENT.EDU
Barbara Schloman        BSCHLOMA@KENTVM         BSCHLOMA@KENTVM.KENT.EDU

****************************************************************************
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Approved-By:  "Leslie M. Haas" <LHAAS@KENTVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 10:46:40 EDT
From:         David Fuller <dfuller@eis.CalState.EDU>
Subject:      Chaos on shelves?

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
        When I was in library school I was told that the ONE thing
librarians do that no one else does is to classify information. Yet it
seems that today most cataloging is done centrally, at the Library of
Congress and other large institutions. The majority of libraries seem to
catalog either from the CIP data or download records from online
bibliographic utilities because they do not have the time or the funding
to do original cataloging.
        I think that systems like the Library of Congress must be
tremendously overburdened (perhaps due to the continual expansion of
published material) because I am amazed at where I see materials
classified. Do they only have time to crack the book open to a single page
and quickly catalog from that random perception? When I asked our head of
technical services about this, she told me that it made no difference
since we now use OPACs to instantly retrieve records and determine locations.
        Are our library shelves going to seed while we diddle away
contentedly on our OPACs? or am I a control freak addressing a timeless
library problem, the need to place materials with diverse content in a
single location? What do you think?

David Fuller
Reference Dept.
Beale Memorial Library

dfuller@eis.calstate.edu
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Approved-By:  "Leslie M. Haas" <LHAAS@KENTVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:09:29 EDT
From:         Lynda Williams <williams@cnc.bc.ca>
Subject:      Full-text search (was Chaos on shelves?)

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
It's not exactly a theory, by my approach to non-authority
controlled searches is:  (A1 OR A2 OR A3 ... OR AN) AND
(B1 OR B2 OR B3 ... OR BN) where "A" is one concept and
"B" is another concept.

example: rural education

(RURAL or COUNTRY or SMALL TOWN) AND (SCHOOL or EDUCATION or TEACH$)

If you are getting too many hits you tack on another AND, if you
are getting too few, you stuff more ORs into some or all clusters
of them.
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Approved-By:  Diane Kovacs <DKOVACS@KENTVM.KENT.EDU>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Mon, 16 Nov 1992 12:31:50 EDT
From:         SWOLFF%TWSUVM.BITNET@Kentvm.Kent.edu
Subject:      Hats
Comments: To: libref-l@kentvm.kent.edu

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I don't see the issue of hats as silly at all.  It all depends
on the hat.  Around here, hats frequently signify to what gang
the hat-wearer belongs.  I don't think we can go on the assumption
that it's not possible we have gang members working for us and
I wouldn't want to have a student attacked or shot because he
or she happened to be wearing the wrong hat in the wrong place.
In Wichita, many high schools have a dress code that doesn't allow
hats, certain types of shoes, and other articles of clothing that
are indicative of gang membership.  I understand bad hair days,
but I am also cautious what impressions of the wrong sort might
be sent.
Shelly Wolff
Wichita State
SWOLFF@TWSUVM
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Approved-By:  "Leslie M. Haas" <LHAAS@KENTVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 11:08:49 EDT
              <LIBREF-L@KENTVM.BITNET>
From:         Jeanne Perrone <JPERRON@american.edu>
Subject:      government libraries serving contractors

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I work in a federal government library which must serve both federal
employees and contractors.  Contractors must have their contract monitor
request services for them in writing, and the request must be approved by
the library director.  Services requested using this procedure include
photocopying done by library staff, literature searches, interlibrary loan
and circulation of materials.  Any or all of these services may be
requested.  The contract monitor must agree to be financially responsible
for materials before interlibrary loan and circulation services can be
approved.  The contractor may make use of other library services without
following this procedure as long as they have access to the buildings,
which are secured.  The library staff cannot provide escort service.

I am interested in hearing what requirements other government libraries
have for serving their agency's contractors.

Thank you in advance for your response.

Please respond directly to me at JPERRON@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU.  I will
summarize my findings to the list.

Jeanne Perrone, Energy Library, U. S. Department of Energy
  also Student in Information Systems at American University.

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Approved-By:  "Leslie M. Haas" <LHAAS@KENTVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 12:16:07 EDT
From:         "Barb Farah,603-862-4168" <B_FARAH@UNHH.UNH.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Chaos on shelves?

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
David raises an issue that has concerned me for years.  Since I have
spent most of my career working with small collections (sci/eng and
school libraries) I have tried to make subject arrangement meaningful.
When I worked in a larger academic library I found that it was nearly
impossible to browse because of the literature scatter.  A Plastics
Engineer and I started to do an article and some research on the
problems that arose because of the literature scatter in just the
plastics engineering area.  We finally threw up our collective hands
in horror.  It was a seemingly impossible task.  Info in toxicity,
use of plastics in medical fields, oceoanography etc. were in several
different places.  People do like to browse and unless catalogers hit
the main concept (is it plastics or polymers) it gets lost to our
users (and I'm just talking here about reference collections.

For sci/tech materials, the OPAC's just don't cut it at least not yet.
These folks talk a different language.  Maybe technology will help
us sort it out but we still have to deal with more info and less time.
Our best hope will be the information managers, WAIS, GOPHER type
"finders".  (I don't mean to flame catalogers here.  I think they
do a great job.  It's a problem of not being able to browse that
frustrates many people)  Barb Farah
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Approved-By:  "Leslie M. Haas" <LHAAS@KENTVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:11:49 EDT
From:         "Karl F. Bridges" <cfkfb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu>
Subject:      Re: Sports bottles
Comments: cc: chagle@phys.udallas.edu
              "chagle@phys.udallas.edu" at Nov 20, 92 2:38 pm

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
  We haven't dealt with this because we ban all drinks and food from the
library.  The question is one of consistency.  If you allow a sports bottle
does this also mean that you allow cans, bottles, coffee cups.  The issue
is not the container but what's in the container.
  Food in the library is terrible.  Most students are well fed and have
ample opportunity to gorge themselves elsewhere.  The library is for study,
research, and reflection.  It's not a restaurant.  If I had wanted to deal
with food I would have gotten a degree from McDonald's University not
an MS from UofI.  If it was up to me I would send every student I caught
with a drink, sports bottle, or candy bar to the student conduct board
and slap them with a hefty fine.
 I realize that this is wishful thinking, but I wouldn't encourage food
in my library.--


*****************************************************************************
Karl Bridges
cfkfb@ux1.edu
*****************************************************************************
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Approved-By:  "Leslie M. Haas" <LHAAS@KENTVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:45:28 EDT
From:         RHADDEN@USGSRESV.BITNET
Subject:      RE: lesbian/gay librarians

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Yes, the profession has a responsibility to respond to these issues.

        Actually, it does not. The library profession needs to address
library issues, which are the areas of our competence. We can get too
caught up in social causes, political fights, religious issues and other
non-library tussels that distract, divide and can destroy our professional
organizations.
        Anyone who wants to punish the voters of a particular state because
they don't like how the democratic process works can stay home. To ask a
professional organization to boycott because of a political disagreement
is something else. Organizations should not have opinions (IMHO) outside
of their area of intent. thus libraries may have groups that meet together to
form opinions on library matters, but they should not branch away from
the basic purposes of their organization.
        These contstant arguments over gay/lesbian, Israel/Arab, Democrat/Republ
ican
are dividing our organizations. The misuse of our organiaztions for
ulterior political/social causes is destructive, and should be stopped.
        No, I don't agree that we (i.e., the library organizations) should
reply or have a responsibility to reply to these issues.
        Naturally, these opinions are my own, and do not reflect the
opinions of any library, government or social organizations.
lee hadden
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:37:24 EDT
              <LIBREF-L@KENTVM.BITNET>
From:         THIEL@flis.utoronto.ca
Subject:      Msc or mls?

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Dear Libref Colleagues,

    I am a student at the Faculty of Library and Information Science
at the University of Toronto.  There is consideration of changing
the name of our degree from M.L.S. to M.Sc.
    What do you think?  Is Library "Science" a science, etc.?  Is
this relevant at all?  I am only posting this message to elicit
general discussion, so please reply to the bulletin board, not to me.
Hope you all have fun with this.


                                            Sincerely,

                                            Greg Thiel
                                            (long time lurker,
                                             first time caller)
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Date:         Tue, 17 Nov 1992 08:38:39 EDT
From:         "Patricia M. Andersen" <pandersn@silver.sdsmt.edu>
Subject:      Hogshead Tavern

Please respond directly to pandersn@silver.sdsmt.edu  Thank you, Moderator

----------------------------Original message----------------------------


Hi all

I'm trying to track down a literary reference to "Hogshead Tavern".  It's
one of those "gee, this seems so familiar" references.  We know that it
is not Dickens or Shakespeare, and have a feeling that it may be somehow
associated with the U.S. Revolutionary War.  Any suggestions?


Patty Andersen
Devereaux Library
South Dakota School of Mines & Technology
pandersn@silver.sdsmt.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 10:52:47 EDT
From:         "Don Smith, McFarlin Library,
              University of Tulsa" <DRS@VAX2.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject:      Library Building Planning

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Response in regard to inquiry regarding academic library building planning:
Northeast Louisiana University, Monroe, LA is planning to begin construction
on a new library earyl in 1994.  The service points have been identified in
the program plan but no architectural work has been done.  I just received word
today about ad library planning discussion list on QUCDN and the list's name
is LIBPLN-L.  If anyone has the subscription info, I would also appreciate it.

Don Smith
Associate Director for General Services
McFarlin Library, The University of Tulsa
but soon to be
Director, Sandel Library
Norttheast Louisiana University
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:00:53 EDT
From:         eliz kirk <AP201111@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Msc or mls?

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
My so-recent-that-it-still-smells-like-ink library degree is from Simmons
in Boston, which gives a straight Master of Science. Having come to
librarianship from graduate school (for French), I have always wondered at
the need of library schools to fashion such "exclusive" degrees. MLS? DLS?

Frankly, I think that the exclusive degrees must sound shady to an outsider.
The academic world at large has stayed away from this type of thing histori-
cally. If we want to be considered professionals--and we have a right to be--
then maybe we should join the madding crowd on this one.

Elizabeth E. Kirk
Brown University Library
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Subject: (no subject given)
X-Resent-Date:  Tue, 17 Nov 92 13:48:08 EDT
X-Resent-From:  "Kara L. Robinson" <KROBINSO@KENTVM>
X-Resent-To:    Leslie <lhaas@kentvm>
Approved-By:  'Romance Readers Anonymous' <RRA-L@KENTVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 10:50:59 EDT
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Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was RRA-L@KENTVM
From:         SCHREINE@TWSUVM.BITNET

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

Before I reinvented the wheel, I was wondering if any of you out there have
compared article citation/document delivery services such as CitaDel, Carl
Uncover or OCLC's ContentsFirst/ArticleFirst (and any other services I'm
unaware of)?  Our library is getting ready to pick one of these services
and we need to compare journal coverage, ease-of-use, cost, etc.  If any
of you have an actual report that you've done of these services or can
steer me in the direction of an article, I would appreciate it.  Thank
you!

Rebecca Schreiner, Head of Reference
Wichita State University
Wichita, Kansas  67260--0068
316-689-3591
schreine@twsuvm
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.libref-l
Date:         Mon, 16 Nov 1992 08:32:39 EDT
From:         Sandra.Duffield%abn.nla.gov.au@Kentvm.Kent.edu
Subject:      Library Reference Desks
Comments: To: libref-l@kentvm.kent.edu

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

I have been reading the many experiences of reference staff working with
counters/desks of various sizes and layout. When the National Library of
 Australia re-opened its new reference area in February 1992, reference staff
 worked at
a desk. But of equal importance was the fact that staff were rostered as
"rovers" and are stationed "on foot" amongst the OPAC terminals.

Signs are placed to inform users that a staff member is on duty for catalogue
assistance. The staff member wears or carries a red rosette so they can be
 easily recognised. Whilst not in any way leading to "the end of the reference
 desk",
this practice has placed staff formally with the users and frees desk staff to
other reference assistance.

Rod Stroud
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Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 12:09:57 EDT
From:         CHOPCARR@charlie.usd.edu
Subject:      Converting microfilm to print

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
This question is for a collegue, please respond to me rather than the list,
Internet: chopcarr@charlie.usd.edu

We are looking for an organization that converts microfilm to print.  Yes,
usually it's the other way around, but that's what we need in this instance.
Commerical or non-commerical organizations are OK, any thoughts or advice
would also be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Carolyn Hopkins-Carroll                 Internet: chopcarr@charlie.usd.edu
ILL/Reference Librarian
I.D. Weeks Library                      Phone:  605-677-6087
Univ. of South Dakota                   Fax:    605-677-5488
414 East Clark Street
Vermillion, SD  57069
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