HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jak@panix.com (Jack Krueger)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Inappropriate responses to job posting
Date: 24 Dec 92 19:50:29 GMT
Organization: Panix, NYC

In <JBM.92Dec22233556@infinity.hal.com> jbm@hal.com (Brad Might) writes:

>>>>>> In article <1992Dec22.140205@ardor.enet.dec.com>,
>kannan@ardor.enet.dec.com (Nari Kannan) writes: 

>> In addition, I think users of the newsgroups should realize that
>> using a free common newsgroup like this has its own
>> disadvantages. If you want a technical writer and if you 
>> advertise in a magazine or journal targeted specifically for
>> technical writers, you will not have this problem. Using a 
>> very common newsgroup to advertise for all kinds of
>> jobs and that too for free, you will have to be ready to
>> put up with more inappropriate responses. It's just a fact of
>> life.  Many people do not even access this "discussion"
>> newsgroup, misc.jobs.misc. I bet they look only at
>> the actual job postings newsgroup.  Writing here
>> exhorting people to apply only if they fit every requirement is
>> a waste of time, IMHO.

>> You cannot use a free open common forum and still expect to
>> get extremely specific applications.  If you want to achieve
>> that level of specificity, then advertise in places targeted
>> towards that particular audience. You can't have the cake
>> and eat it too.

>> Nari


>In a job market like this, I think the last thing that people should do is
>to post a message like this, discouraging job postings. Let's face it, the
>job market is poor, the last thing to do is chase away opportunity.

>Why ruin things for others ? This goes for inappropriate responses to job
>postings as well. 

>Scenario:

>Job is posted to misc.jobs.offerred. Several hundren replies are received.
>At least 50% of them are inappropriate/should never have replied. (Yes, I
>think 50% is an accurate number). Now the job poster decides not to post
>the OTHER 5 JOBS that he would have (or tells someone in another department
>that it is not worth it) because it has become too much trouble.

>I am really surprised at the crap dished out on in this forum at employers
>by people looking for work. Face it, who has the advantage right now ?

>--
>-- standard disclaimers apply --
>jbm@hal.com (Brad Might)      
>HAL Computer Systems - (512)794-2855
>8920 Business Park Drive Suite 300 Austin, Tx 78759

... sigh, cyber-not, it's interesting that a company which is involved in
programming etc. can't come up to speed with the power of computers and
the fact that people are real data. Look it isn't to much to write a
simple ai program to sort the e-mail resumes and do an automatic response
depending on what is found in 'key' words. 

Happy Holidays and remember being reasonable has nothing to do with
discovering the 'truth'. 

Jack
Jack A. Krueger
jak@panix.com
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: EARN MONEY STUFFING ENVELOPES
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: The Bates Motel
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 19:46:05 GMT

ryno@sage.cc.purdue.edu (POOH BEAR) writes:
>	If you are interested in earning a great supplemental
>        income, stuffing envelopes, send a SASE to :
>
>			STUDENT STUFFERS
>			348-3 W. Oak St.
>			West Lafayette, In.
>					47906

ar017@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Nolan Whitaker) writes:
> 
>For those of you are unaware of the "stuffing envelopes" scam:
> 
>1)      You send for info
>2)      Info tells you to send $10, etc for instructions
>3)      Instructions tell you to place an ad like you responded to
>        and hope some other dope responds as you did
>4)      You lose $$$


This is a regular feature on WCBS local news consumer/scambusting
feature, "Shame On You".  One lawyer had suggested that this idea 
was originally started by a tabloid (this is speculation) to move 
ad space, and has avalanched into a runaway virus that has been 
a benefit to the same tabloids beyond the wildest dreams of the 
conceiver.  Just open one of them up to see all the suckers who
are trying to at least make their money back ...

Looks like POOH BEAR is trying to get his/her money back ...

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@cunixd.cc.columbia.EDU 		Support NAFTA
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			 Eat Mexican  (El Teddy's ad)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: scdorcy@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES DORCEY)
Subject: Re: The question of Experience
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 22 Dec 1992 11:56 EST  

In article <greg.724725906@saltydog>, greg@saltydog.dpsi.com (Gregory R. 
Travis) writes...
>In <1gtl3rINNelg@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> reidyj@mundania.CS.ORST.EDU (Jay Reidy) 
writes:

>>  Paper is more inportant in many areas than experience.  We are so degree
>>  oriented we are missing out on a lot of talented people who started in this
>>  software game before a lot of us were born.  You may have heard of some of
>>  them... Turing (math), Wozniak(no degree), the head of MIcrosoft(again, no
>>  degree)... the list goes on and on.

>Paper is more important for people who've invested in it than experience.
>Paper is no promise of performance though.  If you want to measure performance
>by $$$ earned (I don't) then ANY degree is a lost cause.  The richest man
>in the U.S. has no degree, virtually all of the richest people in Europe
>have no degree.

>Steve Jobs has no degree...etc.

The only real function "paper" has is to open other people's doors.  Gates, 
Jobs, and Wozniak built their own doors and walked through them.
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.contract
Distribution: world
From: seek@world.std.com
Organization: Odyssey Ultraware, Inc
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 04:58:37 CDT
Subject: IMMEDIATE CONTRACT IN BOSTON AREA FOR COBOL PROGRAMMER ON UNIX PLATFORM refsun+r


******************************************************************************
** these are not entry level positions  *  please send resume in ascii format
******************************************************************************
** local engineers are preferred        *  all locals will get a response back
******************************************************************************
 
 
               COBOL PROGRAMMER ON A SUN O/S FOR FINANCIAL PROJECT
 
AVAILABILITY:  IMMEDIATELY
 
DURATION:      3+ MONTHS
 
TECHNICAL:     COBOL, SUN O/S, UNIX, FINANCIAL AND/OR SALES APPLICATION
               EXPERIENCE
 
FOLLOW UP:     seek@world.std.com
               1-617-246-8246 (fax)
               1-617-246-8234 (phone)
 
CONTACT:       SANDRA STRONG


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Path:
wupost!darwin.sura.net!mojo.eng.umd.edu!enterpoop.mit.edu!eff!world!world.std.com
From: seek@world.std.com (SEEK)
Subject: IMMEDIATE CONTRACT IN BOSTON AREA FOR COBOL PROGRAMMER ON UNIX
PLATFORM refsun+recruiter+
Reply-To: seek@world.std.com
Organization: SEEK Consulting Companies Ltd
Distribution: ne
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 19:57:18 GMT
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.contract
Distribution: world
From: btansill@netcom.com (Sequent Associates)
Organization: Odyssey Ultraware, Inc
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 05:15:28 CDT
Subject: Software QA - contract (recruiter)



	Sequent Associates, a leader in the placement of engineering
	talent, has immediate openings for consulting and contracting 
	engineers with backgrounds in software development, software 
	quality assurance, hardware design/QA, and technical writing. 
	Our clients are the leaders in technology, and are located 
	throughout the bay area.

	If you have industry experience, will work as a W-2 employee
	and are looking for a career enhancing contract position, contact
	us today.

		WE CURRENTLY HAVE A NEED FOR THE FOLLOWING
		******************************************
	
	              2 - Software QA Engineers  
			      Job # E2BS 


	PROJECT      - MS Windows application testing for DTP and Font
                       Manipulation 

	REQUIREMENTS - 2+ years in SQA 
                       1+ years experience with MS Windows 
                       Supervisory experience for one of the positions
                       Some MAC experience a plus  

	LENGTH       - 8 months - Lead
                       3 months - Intermediate  

	RATE         - To $28/hr - Lead
                     - To $22/hr - Intermediate  	

	START DATE   - ASAPe

	LOCATION     - Mid Penninsula 


	Sequent Associates              Phone (408) 436-0111 
	2107 N. First Street            Fax   (408) 436-1842 
	Suite 530                       email btansill@netcom.com 
	San Jose, CA  95131 


------ Internet Message Header Follows ------
Newsgroups: ba.jobs.offered,misc.jobs.contract
From: btansill@netcom.com (Sequent Associates)
Subject: Software QA - contract (recruiter)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: ca
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 01:19:03 GMT
From: linimon@nominil.lonesome.com (Mark Linimon)
Subject: Misc.jobs.contract: Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs)
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Lonesome Dove Computing Services
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 08:10:15 GMT
Supersedes: <contract_faq_722751615@nominil.lonesome.com>
Summary: frequently asked questions about contract jobs on Usenet
Expires: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 08:09:48 GMT
Reply-To: linimon@nominil.lonesome.com


Newsgroups: misc.jobs.contract
From: tms@netcom.com (Taos Mountain Software)
Subject: Unix Senior SQA Engineer; San Fran Bay Area; TMS
Keywords: 3-6 years SQE; Sun environ; Knowledge of ISO standards
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: ca
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 06:17:54 GMT




* * * *	* * * *	* * * *	* * * *	* * * *	* * * *	* * * *	* * * *	* *

Taos Mountain Software,	a Mountain View, CA based Unix	Contract-
ing and	Training company, has several Unix contract openings.

Taos Mountain offers its W2 contractors	Health Insurance,  Educa-
tional	Reimbursement,	business  cards,  Internet access, and we
work hard to keep our  contractors  busy  from	one  contract  to
another.  Contact us for details.

When replying, please indicate	req  number  and  job  title.  If
emailing us a resume, please send only ascii resumes.

============================ REQ 247 ===========================


Job Title:		Senior SQA Engineer

Geographic Location:	San Francisco Bay Area

Likely Duration:	Contract to Permanent

Job Description:	SQE Tools and Procedures

	As Senior SQE you will aid in the implementation of design of
	procedures, coding standards, and documentation	standards.
	Reporting to the project lead your previous technical experience
	will contribute	to the development of new tools	in the Quality
	Assurance Tools	Group of this high end desktop product.	 In
	addition to hands-on testing, you will be responsible for
	important independant software projects.

Candidate Qualifications:

	- 3-6 years SQE	experience in a	Unix environment
	- Expert working knowledge of Sun user environment
	- Formal SQE training/studies a	plus
	- Knowledge of ISO standards
	- Demonstration	of good	programming practices and Q/A
	  methodology.



USMail:	Technical Staffing		Voice:	(415) 961-2100
	Taos Mountain Software		Fax:	(415) 961-6668
	415 Clyde Ave.,	Suite 105	Email:	tms@netcom.com
	Mountain View, CA  94043


* * * *	* * * *	* * *  End of Taos Mountain Posting  * * * * * * * * * * * *
From: bobert@informix.com (Robert Murphy)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.contract
Subject: Re: contract payment methods question
Date: 17 Dec 92 22:05:38 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

pdh@netcom.com (Phil Howard ) writes:

>One method of payment which gets some bandwidth on here is the salary/1000
>hourly rate.  I assume if one travelled around, this rate would also have
>to reflect the costs at the geographic location of work.

Absolutely.  Living costs can be radically different in various parts of
the country.  For instance, the $400/month that got me a luxury apartment
in Fort Worth, Texas, would get me a hearty laugh in San Francisco.

>However another method would be a negotiated fixed amount for delivery of
>the completed project, regardless of costs and/or time.  The details of an
>agreement may actually include certain factors.  My question is whether or
>not this is in common practice where the parties would agree to it.  I would
>expect this to be most applicable to small or medium development projects
>generally involving a single person.

My partner and I prefer to do this sort of "firm-fixed-price contract".
Coming up with a realistic bid price and structuring the contract so
nobody gets hurt is an art we're still learning.  We've done about five
times as many contracts this way as we have by the hour.

>Are there any alternatives to payment methods for non-development work
>such as systems administration.  I would hope the hourly rate applies
>to times when you get those 3am phone calls.  But is this real?  What if
>the "employer" claims that the late night calls are just you dealing with
>the "problems" you didn't prevent in routine configurations, etc?

Speaking of this kind of thing, my partner and I are having a problem which
perhaps somebody here has an answer for.  We're working on a project
which is basically to write an interface layer so that the client's
proprietary library code can be called from an Windows Excel spreadsheet.
These libraries had previously been ported to Lotus 123 for DOS and Unix,
and Wingz for the Sun, and also sold as independent libraries, so we
assumed they'd been thoroughly tested... heh heh...

Well, over 80% of the bugs that have been reported against our project
have turned out to be in the client's libraries.  Fixing these libraries
is both outside the scope of the contract and far outside our expertise.
I'd guess we've spent an aggregate of 2-3 man-weeks on these bugs, and
the whole project was only supposed to take 2-3 man-weeks.  I can also
honestly say that there was no way at the beginning of the project that
we could have expected this kind of overrun.

Right now, we're just eating the extra time.  In the future, though, what
should we do?  Should we build an automatic price increase into our
contracts for extra work caused by client screw-ups?  Are there other,
better ways of dealing with this sort of thing?

Bob Murphy
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.contract
Distribution: world
From: seek@world.std.com
Organization: Odyssey Ultraware, Inc
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 03:55:23 CDT
Subject: IMMEDIATE CONTRACT IN BOSTON AREA FOR COBOL PROGRAMMER ON UNIX PLATFORM refsun+r

This article was probably generated by a buggy news reader.


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Newsgroups: misc.jobs.contract
From: seek@world.std.com (Seek Co Ltd)
Subject: IMMEDIATE CONTRACT IN BOSTON AREA FOR COBOL PROGRAMMER ON UNIX
PLATFORM refsun+recruiter+
Reply-To: seek@world.std.com
Organization: Seek Consulting Company Ltd
Distribution: ne
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 20:44:25 GMT
From: paul@unitek.com
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.contract
Subject: X.500 Contract (N. Cal)
Keywords: OSI, X.500
Date: 23 Dec 92 23:48:26 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Distribution: ca
Organization: Unitek Systems


                  Immediate Contract Opportunity

Unitek Systems, a Software Consulting House, in Nothern California, 
has a contract opportunity for a developer with hands on experience 
in upper layers of ISO/OSI protocols.

This is a  4 months contract to work on our client's site in Santa Clara.

Requirements:  2-4 years of experience,  X.500, C++, and Unix

For immediate consideration please call, Fax or email your resume
to Paul Afshar at:

         Fax: (510) 790-2276               Unitek Systems                 
         Tel: (510) 795-2878            5845 Jarvis Ave. #150         
      E-mail: paul@unitek.com             Newark, CA 94560           
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.contract
From: jkenton@world.std.com (Jeff Kenton)
Subject: Re: The Company Corporation?
Organization: Kenton Systems Corporation, Weston MA
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 18:17:19 GMT

nelson@crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) writes:

>Reading my Compu$erve Magazine, a blow-in card fell out, from The
>Company Corporation.  They claim to save you lots of money in
>incorporation fees.  Does anyone have any experience with them?

I have a book of theirs called How to Form Your Own Corporation
Without a Lawyer for Under $50.00.  It was published in 1972, so
they have been around for at least 20 years.  At that time it
seemed that they were encouraging people to incorporate in the
state of Delaware, and would provide assistance for a fee (the $50
quoted in the book title applied [then] to doing it yourself).

Opinion:

You may be able to save several $100 in lawyers fees by shopping around,
either with The Company Corporation or locally.  But there are other costs
to incorporating besides first time legal fees, so it may not be as big a
deal as it seems.  My preference would be a local lawyer with reasonable
rates, so that you have someone to provide ongoing legal services.


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
=			Jeff Kenton	(617) 894-4508			=
=			    jkenton@world.std.com			=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.contract
From: srscnslt@telesciences.com (SRS Consultant)
Subject: What is the market like in New Orleans?
Followup-To: srscnslt@telesciences.com
Organization: TeleSciences CO Systems, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 22:36:58 GMT



	My SO has been offered a job in New Orleans that, if everything turns out
	to be as good as it sounds, she'd be a fool not to take.  While she's
	checking it out, I thought it'd be a good idea to see what I can find out
	about the market down there for _me_.

	I'm a Unix software consultant, around seven years experience altogether.
	I've done work with some socket communications applications under Unix,
	and also developed stuff for embedded systems (mainly executives and data
	management, mostly for VMEbus systems).  I've also done some small-scale
	Unix administration (networks of less than 10 machines).

	I've got a lot of personal (read: unpaid) experience messing with PCDos
	internals, and am currently delving into the extreeeeeemely murky world
	of coding for Windows (via Borland C++/OWL).

	Anyone know what kind of opportunities exist down there for someone with
	my experience?


	PLEASE REPLY BY EMAIL!!  It's bad enough I've gotta post a request for
	info like this, let's not slag the group with (hopefully) tons of
	responses!  If I get enough requests for it, I'll post a summary.

		TIA.

		Mitch




-- 
Mitch Gorman		srscnslt@telesciences.com	emrys@cellar.org
"You can tell he's doing well by the look in inhuman eyes,
	Better not compromise -
		It won't be easy!"
From: markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.contract
Subject: Re: Fixed Price Contracts: Hourly info needed?
Date: 30 Dec 1992 05:43:22 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <BzzFxJ.2L4@vuse.vanderbilt.edu> cantwell@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Jeff Cantwell) writes:
>I am just about to write my first contract.  A fixed price contract
>seems like a good idea. Is any hourly information normally included in
>such a contract? For example, that person A will be available for up
>to 40 hours per week, and person B will be available for up to 20
>hours per week? Or is such information excluded, and only deliverables
>and total cost specified?

I no longer believe that activities like programming, which are at their
root creative activities equivalent in nature to writing, can be or should be
subjected to a contract basis.

If you do this for long, you will experience burnout and even before then
you will find your ability to generate software severely stifled by the
imposition of a timetable.

A better means to pursue programming as a living is to pursue it in the
same manner as writing: try to negotiate a licensing arrangement, or try to
arrange for full ownership of your product and the delivery of royalties from
each recipient of the product.

The first client can get the product at a discount for being a beta-tester.
Alternatively, you could ask them to share in on some of the royalties in
exchange for subsidizing the development period, in which case you should
gear your product for general use instead of as a custom product.

As such, I am doing everything in my power to try and get out of this
project and starve contract cycle I am in, and to try and develop a
royalty basis for my income.
Xref: sparky misc.jobs.contract:4764 misc.jobs.misc:8481 misc.jobs.offered:15292
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.contract,misc.jobs.misc,misc.jobs.offered
Distribution: world
From: muhamk@microsoft.com (Muhammad Karim)
Organization: Odyssey Ultraware, Inc
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 02:26:02 CDT
Subject: Import/Export

I am interested in starting import/export business.  i

would like some help with a product line which could be

sold through Pakistan Television or Print Media.



If you have or know someone who has any product that can

be sold through the media please contact me,  i will be

happy to discuss in details.



I would appreciate all the help i can get.  Please email

me directly at muhamk@microsoft.com.



Thanks.

  wq
 


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From: muhamk@microsoft.com (Muhammad Karim)
Subject: Import/Export
Date: 28 Dec 92 11:32:06 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Keywords: Import/Export
misc.jobs.contract:8197 misc.jobs.misc:19439 misc.jobs.offered:26481
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.contract
Distribution: world
From: seek@world.std.com
Organization: Odyssey Ultraware, Inc
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 04:58:57 CDT
Subject: IMMEDIATE CONTRACT IN BOSTON AREA FOR COBOL PROGRAMMER ON UNIX PLATFORM refsun+r

This article was probably generated by a buggy news reader.


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Control: cancel <sun-921229164423-seekad@world.std.com>
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.contract
From: seek@world.std.com (Seek Co Ltd)
Subject: IMMEDIATE CONTRACT IN BOSTON AREA FOR COBOL PROGRAMMER ON UNIX
PLATFORM refsun+recruiter+
Reply-To: seek@world.std.com
Organization: Seek Consulting Company Ltd
Distribution: ne
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 19:57:20 GMT


Newsgroups: misc.jobs.contract
From: xin@gandalf.UMCS.Maine.EDU (Xin Wang)
Subject: testing
Organization: University of Maine Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 11:22:26 GMT

Keywords:
From: linimon@nominil.lonesome.com (Mark Linimon)
Subject: Misc.jobs.contract: Welcome to misc.jobs.contract
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Lonesome Dove Computing Services
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 08:10:08 GMT
Supersedes: <contract_welcome_722751615@nominil.lonesome.com>
Summary: a first introduction to the job contracting group on Usenet
Expires: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 08:09:48 GMT
Reply-To: linimon@nominil.lonesome.com


Newsgroups: misc.jobs.contract
From: isc@panix.com (David Koosis)
Subject: Lotus Notes Instructor - NYC (recruiter)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:39:13 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
Keywords: lotus notes instructor

Salut:

Instructional Systems Company is seeking Lotus Notes subject matter
experts for training materials development and instruction.

Please contact me at the address(es) indicated below.

Thanks,
 and, as Dorothy Parker used to say:
  have a meretricious & a happy new year!

David Koosis

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ISC Consultants NYC 212-477-8800 Training/Consulting Since 1973 isc@panix.com