HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bill.wendt@synapse.org (Bill Wendt) 
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: PETERBOROUGH POLAR-BEAR
Date: 22 Jan 93 21:33:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SYNAPSE BBS - GATINEAU, QUEBEC - 819-561-4321
Reply-To: bill.wendt@synapse.org (Bill Wendt) 

-> I was wondering if anyone knows anything about the date for this
-> year's Polar Bear 1/2 Marathon held in Peterborough, ON, Canada.
->
-> Like the Date:, Time: , where an entry-form is available:
Just this: February 28, 1:00 p.m., race director Molly Cartmell
                                                                                                                        
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: kpapai@rahul.net (Ken Papai)
Subject: Re: Distinctions Please
Organization: a2i network
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:41:44 GMT

(Javier Pinto) writes:
>mvm@caesun6.epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney) writes:
>>Runners wear shorts or tights.  Joggers wear sweats.
>>Runners wear a watch.  Joggers wear a Walkman.
>>Runners log miles.  Joggers log hours.
>>Joggers jog for health.  Runners are usually injured.
                                        ^------- Pretty Funny!
>THis is hilarious!
>It reminded me of a conversation I had with my advisor not too long ago. 
>When told him that I had gone running that morning he replied: 'you mean,
>you went jogging'...

I know of a few more distinctions:

Joggers hog the track.  Runners are courteous and know what a track is for.
Joggers overdress.  Runners wear as little as possible.
Joggers run with traffic.  Runners go against traffic.
Joggers hog the sidewalk and are not aware of their surroundings.  Runners
are aware of their surroundings and know right from left.
Joggers are meek & demure.  Runners are crashing all the time, competitive,
and thrill seeking.
Runners get high, joggers don't.  (we're talking endorphins here!)
Runners go crashing out the door before 6am to get that 8 miler in,
joggers go out to be seen in middle of the day when it's hottest.
Runners vary their pace, during there run as well as during the week,
joggers just keep ploddin' on.

Runners are active, sexy, type-A, athletic, coordinated, and full of
excuses!  I wouldn't be anything else!


 
-- 
Ken Papai <kpapai@rahul.net>
From: Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Why are Kenyans so fast and US distance runners so slow?
Date: 25 Jan 1993 13:22:18 GMT
Organization: Williams College, Williamstown, MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: seeley_04333.williams.edu


In article <C1C3ux.MCn@austin.ibm.com> gthome@bulldogs.austin.ibm.com writes:
>I have raced Todd Williams several times while I was running at Mississippi
>Stat Univ.  Todd went the the University of Tennessee and kicked my butt
>on a regular basis.  If anyone suggests that Todd is "satisfied" I suggest
>they step on the track and see his fury themselves.
>
>Also, FEW people actually know the difficulties is takes to get to the
>Olympic level.  Please don't persecute folks for getting 10th at the
>Olympics.

	Apologies if my original post implied anything negative about
Todd Williams.  As mentioned in that post, he is a fine runner, now
the best at 10k in the U.S.  This is a considerable accomplishment.
My point was more a question about American distance runners in 
general: Why do young Americans go to the Olympics hoping to get
international experience that will pay off in the years ahead, while
young Kenyans go to the Olympics expecting to whip the field?  

	Once again, sorry; the point would have been better made
without mentioning anyone's name.

	Coty Pinckney			Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu
From: wlange@eis.calstate.edu (Walter C. Lange)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: high school sub-fours
Date: 22 Jan 93 01:50:56 GMT
Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services

brianw@.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Brian Williams) writes:
> > |> Now, I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that Gary Bjorklund (sp)
> > |> ran under 4 minutes in high school in the '69-'70 season.
> > 
> > If he did, he joins Jim Ryun and Marty Liquori as the only US preps to
> > break 4 minutes, and they did it in the early to mid '60s.  Perhaps that
> > tells you something about "national class" for high schoolers...
> 
> >I'm sure someone will eventually answer this correctly, but I thought
> >the only three high schoolers to break 4 were Ryun, Liquori, and
> >a guy named Tim Danielson (Danielsen?) from San Diego.
> 
> Yes yes yes. Tim Danielson ran  sub 4 for Chula Vista High in San Diego County
> in the mid-late 1960's. He went on to San Diego State thereafter but
> was plagued by injuries.
> Ryun and Liquori were the other two to run sub-four in high school.
> **side note- Thom Hunt from Patrick Henry High in San Diego ran
>              4:01 indoors his senior year in high school.
> 
> Brian.
> 
> 
> 
Actually, Hunt ran 4:02.7--outstanding anyway.  Danielson & Liquouri were
pulled thru 4 minutes by world class fields, Ryun was able to run under 4
on his own, on a dirt track.

Of course, the mile is no longer an official distance at the high school
level--1600 meters is.  Very weird--this is what happens when committees
make decisions.  What happens is a high school kid runs 3:58.4 or so for
1600?  Did he run a 4 min mile?
From: tnelson@ncrcan.Canada.NCR.CA (Tim Nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Lets start the "Running Hotline"
Date: 25 Jan 93 23:42:18 GMT
Organization: NCR Canada Ltd. Mississauga, Ontario

While I was in Columbia SC, a few months ago, I was looking for a race or
2 to get into, but no one I could find knew where to go to find one,
until I wandered into one sporting store, and asked the salesperson.

They suggested that I call the "Running Hotline", which we found listed
in the local phone book (white pages).

It was an answering machine, recorded by the owner of a local running store
who wanted to inform people where and when races were held within about
a 2 hour drive of Columbia.

I thought that that was a great idea, and am going to check into getting
a listing here under the same name, as the store owner agreed that using
his listing name of "Running Hotline" would be a great idea, so that
runners who are visiting any town could look up that name to find the info
line for local races.  (you know the whole standardization thing)

Anyway, I just thought that I would let all of you know about it, and
hopefully more will start, and perhaps we could even include a list of
cities with the "Running Hotline" in the FAQ for rec.running.

I am hoping that a running club, or store, or even the phone company will
sponsor the hotline for the local area, as all it really needs is a
voice mail box.

If you think that you might want to do something like that in your local
area, or are willing to check into a running store or club setting this
up, then maybe you could post a message here, so that someone else in the
same area doesn't do the same thing.

It would also be a good way for running clubs to announce their meetings
and who guest speakers will be.

Good luck, and good running.
-- 
Tim.Nelson@Canada.NCR.CA
NCR Canada +1 416 819 4112
From: magdi@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Magdi N Azer)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Questions about shin splints,tired legs, and running pace
Date: 21 Jan 93 18:16:44 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana


	I have several questions, for which I would appreciate input.

	1) After a six year break, I returned to running about 6 weeks ago.
I started running at the indoor track here at the U of I, and the first few 
runs, my right shin was sore about halfway through 1.5 mile run.  It only hurt
when I ran.  After about a week or two of this, the pain disappeared, which
I attribute to my legs getting used to running.  Over X-mas break, I ran on
concrete outside, and then started running on an elevated track here after
X-mas.  Again, no problems whatsoever.  Last Saturday, I returned to running on
the indoor track (200 m), and the pain in that shin reappeared.  My question is
this,  do any of you have problems when you switch running surfaces?  Also, I
have been on my feet alot at work recently (6 hours/day), and I notice my legs
are more tired when I run.  Again, do any of you have similar experience.  As
I said earlier, it only bothers me when I run, and I try to stretch well before
and after I run.  Should I do some specific stretches for my right shin, or
will this just aggravate the condition.  FInally, I try to walk about 1/2 mile
to warm up and 1/2 mile to cool down.

	2) A second question I have is about pace.  When I started back to
running, I was going about 8:30/mile, and I am now down to about 7:30/mile
(I run 2 miles on a two days on, one day off schedule).  I seem to have platued
at this speed the last two weeks, which may coincide with being on my feet alot
or just switching to this training schedule after having previously run every
other day.  I can run faster if I have a pacer, but on my own, my body seems to
revert to this pace.  My questions is this?  What is a reasonable rate to
increase my speed per mile?  I know some people say that you shouldn't increase
distance by more than 10% a week, but what about speed?  Am I being too hard on
myself for wanting to consistently run sub 7:00 pace 4/5 times per week (2
miles total running distance for now).  I feel like I shoud build up more of a base for
distance before I start speedwork.  Finally, I am increasing distance by 1/4
mile every two weeks, again to build up a strong base and avoid nagging
injuries.

	Any advice, references to articles or books, or personal stories is
greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Magdi N. Azer
magdi@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: oysteing@garm.idt.unit.no (Oystein Groevlen)
Subject: Re: Why are Kenyans so fast and US distance runners so slow?
Organization: Div. of CS & Telematics, Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: 23 Jan 93 11:33:29

In article <1jp38rINN9fb@savoy.cc.williams.edu> Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu writes:
>	   (1) The differences cannot be primarily genetic since Kenyans
>   from many different tribes have excelled internationally.  Richard Chelimo
>   is no more closely related to Paul Ereng or Yobes Ondieki than he is 
>   to most American blacks.

I  don't really  follow  this. Did not most American slaves  come from
Western  Africa? This is  like saying  that I  am  not  more genetical
related to a Swede than to a Greek.

I have often  wondered if it is  only a coincidence that while Eastern
Africans  are  good at  long  distances,  both  Western  Africans  and
American Blacks are good at shorter distances.  I am not claiming that
the reason for  this is genetical. It could also  be cultural  reasons
for this.
--
Oystein Groevlen 
Division of Computer Systems and Telematics
The Norwegian Institute of Technology
The University of Trondheim
Email: oysteing@idt.unit.no
From: ramsey@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Brenda Ramsey)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: LA Marathon needs volunteers
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:41:27 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department

The volunteer count for the LA Marathon is down this year for
some reason.  Areas that are badly in need of volunteers are:

1.  Start Line (3/6- 11:am - 2pm) and (3/7 - 4:00am - 10am)
	If you are interested in working the start line (setup)
	contact ME....310/825-3643

2.  Post Race Food and Fluids - call the Marathon office at
	310/444-5544

3.  Family Reunion - call office

4.  Dispersing of runner medals - call office

Any other questions you may have call either me or the marathon office.

Thanks
-- 
Brenda Ramsey  (213) 825-3643
UCLA Computer Science Department
ramsey@CS.UCLA.EDU
..!(uunet,ucbvax,rutgers)!cs.ucla.edu!ramsey
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: dvfreese@freese.aix.kingston.ibm.com (Doug Freese)
Subject: Re: Is running with shin splints okay?
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 01:56:35 GMT
Organization: IBM Corp. Kingston NY

In article <1k64lmINNfc4@mojo.eng.umd.edu> georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:
>In article <C1Hy82.4HL@acsu.buffalo.edu> v070rajv@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Matthew Lewis) writes:
>>
>>I have always thought that one of the only ways to deal with shin splints was
>>to run through them.
>
>That's a good way to end up with permanent discomfort that no doctor can
>cure. With misinformation like this, it's no wonder there are so many
>inquiries about injuries at rec.running.
>
>If something hurts, you better stop immediately. Pain and injury hardly
>contribute to a productive workout.
>

As runners, we have a tendency to be a bit compulsive and sometimes try to 
run through pain.  If you are going to run through pain at least be
sure of the correct diagnose and understand the consequences. A running 
friend had all the symptons of shin splints, but being conservative
by nature, he went to the podiatrist - diagnose: Compartment Syndrome. 
Not a commom problem but if he had tried to run through it, his down time
might have been forever.  This is not meant to scare anyone but it is 
better to lean to the cautious side.  
                             Doug


-- 
--------The race is not to the swift but to those who keep on running -----
Doug Freese                 (The views expressed here are entirely mine)     
I.B.M. Corp.                email: dvfreese@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com 
Neighborhood Rd. Kingston N.Y. 12401
From: Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: re: More thoughts about Kenyans (no genetics)
Date: 25 Jan 1993 18:39:19 GMT
Organization: Williams College, Williamstown, MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: seeley_04333.williams.edu


In the middle of article <15653.2b63e1bc@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu>,
with which I mostly agree, dwp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:

>2) There seem to be a zillion Kenyans between 20-25 running amazing times, but
>few above 25.  Maybe there hard training gets quick, sensational results,
>but is hard to sustain over a long career.
>

	I think the observation is incorrect.  Consider Chesire,
Wakiihuri, Nzau, Boit, Hussein, and others (including the 1992 
Olympic Gold medalist at 800m whose name escapes me!).

	Coty Pinckney			Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu
From: Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: African Boycott of 1976 Olympics
Date: 26 Jan 1993 13:55:24 GMT
Organization: Williams College, Williamstown, MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: seeley_04333.williams.edu

	The post about Ethiopian runners reminded of a rumor I heard
while in Kenya about the African boycott in 1976.  Altho only 
hearsay, it came from an authoritative source --someone who was with
the Kenyan team in Montreal.

	It seems that when the possibility of an African boycott began
to be raised (remember, it was because of a New Zealand rugby tour of
South Africa), the Ethiopians and Kenyans agreed that neither country
would boycott as long as the other did not.  They each felt standing
alone would be impossible, but as long as they weren't isolated they
could compete.  This was before Nigerian athletes became a force, so 
these were the only two countries that had anything to lose from a 
boycott (well, Tanzania too with Filbert Bayi, but Tanzania's 
president Nyerere was always willing to sacrifice the welfare of his
people for socialist principles).  

	The Kenyan and Ethiopian teams went to Montreal.  Ethiopia had
at least one (gold?) medalist at 5K/10K in Yifter and a strong marathon 
contingent; the Kenyan team was awesome -- Henry Rono was an unknown, 
but had run within one second of a world record steeple on a dirt track 
which the Kenyans kept secret so he would surprise everyone at the Games.  

	The day before the opening ceremonies the Kenyans received a 
cable from the Office of the President in Nairobi with the President's
name on it telling them to withdraw from the Games.  They did so, amidst
tears from the athletes.  The Ethiopians, betrayed by the Kenyans, could
not face the pressure alone and also withdrew.  

	But that's not the end of the story.  Upon returning to Kenya
my informant asked the president in private why he changed his mind.
The president reportedly said that he had not, he had never authorized
the sending of the cable, but that once it was made public he felt he
could not repudiate it!

	I believe my informant.  Kenya's president, on the other hand,
could very well have been lying to my informant.  In any event, it's a 
good story that leads to all sorts of "might-have-beens."  Remember, this
was Viren's second 5K/10K double -- a much more difficult performance
with the Africans there.  The steeple in 76 was a classic -- how much more
so with Rono in the race!  And the Cierpinski/Shorter/Viren marathon
becomes so much more interesting with 3 Ethiopians competing.

	Coty Pinckney
From: jbuddenberg@vax.cns.muskingum.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: treadmill?
Date: 25 Jan 93 00:43:20 -0500
Organization: Muskingum College


What are the disadvantages of running on a treadmill instead of the roadwork?
Is it bad on the knees or what?  I don't think it would hurt for LOW mileage 
but what about mileage of say 30-40+ miles per week?
Thanks

-- 
Jimmy Buddenberg       INTERNET:  jbuddenberg@vax.cns.muskingum.edu
Muskingum College
From: ejk0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (EDWIN J. KAY)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Park Barner
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:04:20 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1993Jan25.212738.16392@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, rmarshal@magnus.a
cs.ohio-state.edu (Rick Marshall) writes:
>
>I haven't followed ultra running since the 70's, but the name I read
>the most often at that time was Park Barner.  Now that I've started to
>follow the LONG stuff again, I was curious about what happened to him.
>
>Anyone know?
>

I think Park pretty much has dropped out of ultra-marathoning.  I used to
direct a local 50 miler which he often ran.  I think the last one he ran was
about four years ago (I could check my records if you are strongly curious).
I understand that he always runs the Harrisburg Marathon so that he can keep
his record of running every one intact.  In the early 80s, I believe, the NY
50 miler was on Saturday, and the Harrisburg Marathon the next day, and Park
would run both.  I remember one year, when I ended up running in the low
2:50s, about 5 miles into the race Park just floated by me.  He was marvelous
to watch.  I was humbled by the thought of his running a 50 miler the previous
day.
-- 
  --Ed
-------------------------------
Edwin J. Kay, CSEE, 117 Packard Lab, 19 Lehigh U, Bethelehem, PA 18015
(215)758-3623  EJK0@NS.CC.LEHIGH.EDU
From: amorsin@cs.vu.nl (A. W. Morsink)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Nike Air Max BM <=> Nike Air 180?
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:49:46 GMT
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam

Hi. Is the Nike Air Max BM out in the US? The reason I'm asking: 
When I returned my defective 180s to Nike, they said the 180 was 
discontinued, so they'll send me a pair of Air Max BMs instead.  
Question: should I be happy about this? The thing is, a lot of 
stores are selling their last 180s at almost half the original 
price now and if I don't like the BM I would like to buy another 
pair of 180s (I was pretty much satisfied with them).  
So if you know anything about the BM (other than what it looks
like), please mail me!

-
Arnoud W. Morsink                | Internet: amorsin@cs.vu.nl
Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam     |           amorsin@econ.vu.nl)
The Netherlands                  | BITNET  : v67cam01@hasara11
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: sscott@mcs.kent.edu (Stephen Scott)
Subject: Re: Distinctions Please
Organization: Kent State University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:45:36 GMT

In article <7664@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com>, poirier@hri.com (Alice Poirier) writes:
|> Even as a long time runner, I have never been clear as to the difference
|> between running and jogging.   
|> 
|> Referencing a book on Nutrition, (Food and Fitness by Jan Nix and Linda Carlsen)
|> I came accross a chart adapted from information from the American Heart
|> Association which outlined caloric expenditure as a function of activity.  The
|> chart listed:
|> 
|> 	Running (5-1/2 mph)		600 calories
|> 	Jogging (5-1/2 mph)		740 calories
|> 
|> There was no explaination as to the distinctions made between running and
|> jogging...  Anyone have some?

Joggers are the ones more concerned with how they look than what they
are doing.  Thus the additional stress of this burns an additional 
140 calories.  Excuse me while I take a look in the mirror and blow
off 140 calories... :)

Personally I think that the authors are a little confused.  The difference
between jogging and running is a state of mind.  However, there is a 
difference between running/jogging and walking/race-walking.  This has
to do with the stride.

Any biomechanical people know what the differences are?

Newsgroups: rec.running
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Presidental running (again)
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 01:21:32 GMT


The press has seen Prez Clinton jogging through D.C. greenlands early
in the morning with his large retinue of guards. Did the previous
jogging presidents- Bush and Carter- jog off White House grounds
often?
From: tarmstro@metz.une.edu.au (tarmstro)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: African Runners
Date: 27 Jan 93 02:33:59 GMT

Surely the answer to why the Africans are `so good' can be found with both
genetics and environment. Before I get flamed for being racist I'll 
note that real (genetic) differences exist between (as well as within) races.
Identifying these differences does not imply that I'm racsist.
My eyes are different to yours, my skin colour is different, my hair etc.
Now, on a population level I would suggest that the genes for dark pigment
of skin colour is in greater proportions than here in Australia. I'll bet
that the incidence of skin cancer is less in darker skin phenotypes.. so 
us fair types will win the skin cancer Olympics hands down!! Just as there
is a higher proportion of lactose intolerance in African and Asian populations.

So, to get to running. Why is it not possible that certain body types are
going to be more suitable to certain sports, than are others. Our potential
is ultimately governed by our ability/talent/genetics. No matter how hard I
train, I'll never run 2.10 for the marathon. Likewise if I need to be 6 foot
6 tall for elite basketball, I'm in trouble.  

The studies I've read on the
physiology of African (mainly Kenyan) runners, *does* suggest that on o
population level they are superior in terms of Vo2 max, leg length, musculature
etc that is important for running. If these studies prove correct, it is not
racism, just science.

So, if there are good running phenotypes (and we know that there are) and
these phenotypes train real hard, we are going to see world beating athletes.
Add the altitude and attitude factors to a population already blessed with
good genes and it is little wonder the Africans are so good. 

If we identify the factors predicting athletic performance occur in higher
proportions in some populations rather than others, I don not see why this
is being racist.

Tim
tarmstro@metz.une.edu.au
From: A.M.T.Bell@daresbury.ac.uk (A.M.T. Bell)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Road world bests vs track world records
Date: 28 Jan 93 10:24:06 GMT
Reply-To: atb@gserv1.dl.ac.uk
Organization: Daresbury Laboratory, UK

Hi

At the weekend Steve Moneghetti set a world half-marathon best of 1h00.06 in Tokyo
and Addis Abebe set a world 10km road best in Djakarta of 27.40. It was interesting
to note these world bests are slower than the corresponding track world records
of Arturo Barrios, Barrios has run just over the half-marathon distance in his
1 hour world record and that his 10km track world record is about 27.06 which
would have beaten Abebe by about 200m. I wonder what they could do for a track
marathon, 2h05?

Any ideas what the current best times on road/track are for ladies in the 10km
and 1hour/halfmarathon?

tony bell                 ! keep on running   live long and prosper
serc daresbury laboratory ! I'm nowhere near 30, I'm 29!
atb@uk.ac.dl.gserv1       ! Maggie O'Connell, Northern Exposure.