HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: Election in Taiwan
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 05:14:12 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.013757.24309@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <BzKwGA.3Ht@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>
>>When "36%" became a "big win", I thought it was less than 50% and minority.
>>I could be wrong. You got to be ready to hear anything when you talk to TIers.
>
>Well, for the DPP (which I don't support, anyway), 36% is a big win, since it
>means the smallest share of vote ever (I believe) for the Nationalist Party.
>"Win" and "loss" are relative here; for the Japanese Socialist party, for
>example, 40% will be a huge win.
>
>What is alarming (for the KMT, that is) is that for the first time ever, the
>DPP got more than 50% vote in several districts/counties/municipalities.
>In the northern district of Taipei, for example, the DPP carried a majority.
>The only seat in Chiayi also went to DPP.
If it is that dangerously close to TI(if DDP win). Why in the hell KMT is still
reluctant to have direct dialog with CCP?
KMT may have to bear full responsibility if DDP win in the future for missing 
the opertunity for unification. bloodshed will be certainly the outcome for TI,
sooner or later.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re:    HATE EACH OTHER ? TIME FOR TIAWAN INDEPENDENCE
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:02:06 GMT

In article <92350.105600U38250@uicvm.uic.edu> <U38250@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:

>But, what can you say about it ? More than 40 years of separation, the big
>culture revolution in China, the huge economical differences, two totally
>opposite political systems.....  How can you expect people from such different
>backgrounds to be the same and not to fight each other ?

It has been done before.  The Period of Great Division (5 Hu Disruption and
North/South Dynasties) lasted >300 years.  The Five Dynasties period lasted for
100 years.  Both times, they involved division of the Chinese people into even
more heterogeneous divisions than the current dichotomy that we see with
Taiwan and mainland.

>Taiwan has been "virtually" independent for more than 40 years. It is just a
>matter of "mental recognition"problem that both sides are still claiming
>representation of each other. Of course, the international politics has to
>be taken into account. But, tell me, how are we gonna "unify" these two areas,
>where people hate each other, and where there is so much difference ?

Because it will be eventually good for both parts, IMO.

However, I think that to reunite or not to reunite is a decision that must be
made by the residents of Taiwan.  No one should be able to force their will
on the decision, which should take all factors, including the threat of a
mainland military invasion, under consideration.  I advocate a union; I also
advocate the right to independence (but *don't* advocate independence).
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: tsen0001@student.tc.umn.edu ()
Subject: Re: UPI news about Taiwan's election
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 23:20:13 GMT

In article <Dec.19.16.55.10.1992.24026@gandalf.rutgers.edu> jin@gandalf.rutgers.edu (GJ) writes:
>
>On clari.news.gov.international
>
>GEORGE WEHRFRITZ 59  >Multi-party democracy emerges in Taiwan
>elections
>
>Check it out.
>
 
For those of you who don't have the news service:

Seats:
	KMT		96
	DPP		50
	Independents	14
	CSD		 1
	--------------------
	Total	       161

Ballots: KMT, 53%, DPP 31% ....

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re:    HATE EACH OTHER ? TIME FOR TIAWAN INDEPENDENCE
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 00:44:14 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.105019.4173@vax.cns.muskingum.edu> ericlaw@vax.cns.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department) writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.192141.11589@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
> 
>> To advocate for the *right* to independence is not the same as advocating
>> independence.  Just like to advocate for the *right* to abortion is not the
>> same as advocating abortion.
>
>	** No, it is the same thing. 
>
>	   Tell me how could it be different?

Tell me how it is the same.

By mixing these up, you are totally showing why many Chinese (I am speaking
in broadterms here, not only the Chinese officials currently in China, but
also in Taiwan, and in the past as well) had difficult time understand the
concept of human rights.  By the right of speech, for example, you are
supporting the right for someone to speak something, even if you don't agree
with it.  For example, I certainly don't support Buddhism.  But I support the
right for Buddhist temples to exist (although I think they are ugly :-)).

If you strip someone of his/her rights, you might be next.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:16115 soc.culture.china:32532 soc.culture.hongkong:16208
From: wkau+@cs.cmu.edu (Wing Keung F Au)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong
Subject: don't crosspost unnecessarily please
Keywords: crossposting, politics, talk
Date: 13 Dec 92 22:47:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.Bz7zB9.F7u.2
Reply-To: wkau=cmu@ius5.ius.cs.cmu.edu
Followup-To: talk.politics.china
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie My-Love


I know politics is just like religion that you can't really change
what others think.  the talk.politics.china is created for the die
hard politics people to talk politics and leave the soc.culture.[tch]
groups lighter for the more "cultural" topics.

Please, please, unless it is news, otherwise, please DO NOT crosspost
political discussions to soc.culture.[cth].  those who are interested
have already subscribed (though it doesn't waste too much more if you
cross-post, it is very annoying to see 60 new messages, and get only
15 after my KILL file takes care of the political debates) to tpc.

-- 

				    FRed W. Au
				    ...!cmu.edu!au+, au+@cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
From: joe@athena.mit.edu (Joseph C Wang)
Subject: Re: The name? (Was Re: [News] Chinese Students Rank....)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:42:57 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.171749.25699@cbnews.cb.att.com> liaohen@cbnews.cb.att.com (Heng-Hsin Liao) writes:
>I would say people in China won't be proud of the fact that Taiwan's
>average income (GDP? I forget the term) is near 10 thousand USD.

>I would say people in China won't be proud of the fact that Taiwan
>accummulates billions of dollars fortune. But they just want it back.

>I would say people in China will be very happy to see China ranks ahead
>of Taiwan in all kinds of statistics.

Just out of curiousity, on what basis do you make these claims?

My general experience has been that attitudes toward Taiwan is no
different than other inter-province rivalries.  Some people might
complain about Taiwan, but those people also complain about Shanghai
and Guangdong in the same way.  

One of the purpose of the idea of "Chinese" is to make sure that
regional conflicts don't damage the common interest of all Chinese.

>See something? They just want you by all means. But they treat you
>like foreigners. The fact is we are foreigners to them. 

Let me point out that the article you were referencing was from
American news media and not Chinese.  I don't think that you can say
anything about Mainland attitudes toward Taiwan from the referenced
article.



Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
From: jsxie@wam.umd.edu (A Chinese)
Subject: Re: outline of a fantacy novel (Re: DATA: largest world economies)
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:15:15 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.014658.15884@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> dh5m@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Donghai  Huangfu) writes:
>Time 2050.
>
>After 1.5 year of bloody conflict, in the first direct election of Taiwan
>supervised under UN, the Liberal Democratic Prograssive Party (LDPP) beat  
>down KMT, and the Reunion Party (Chinese running dog, CRD).
>
>The media of whole world transmit the independent celebration, the new 
>President Chen Doctor declares foundation of ROT in TaiZhong (Taibai 
>becomes the ruins because of the battles). National day is set up to
>be Dec. 25. Christianty is advocated to be national religion.
>
>President Chen failed to get support in the Congress for the Bill of
>Taking over Private Arms. The physical battles in Congress between
>LDPP and KMT becomes more serios, and it hurts the reputation of the
>new country.
>
>CRD goes into undergroud, declaring armed struggle. This is a big headache
>of President Chen.
>
>Under the press of president of USA, Marian George, the General Secretary
>of CCP, Jiang Xiaoming makes a promiss to give diplomatic recognition
>to ROT, but raises a demand compensation of $300 billion for the China
>property transfered from China mainland to Taiwan 100 years ago by KMT.
>This unacceptable demand is supported by Vatican and Hague World Court.
>
>The young country has many problems, but all problems will be settled
>by time. A lovely country are building on the ruins. The future is bright.

Call 1-900-PSYCHIC, if it won't help, make an appointment with a phychologist.
Be hurry, distorted illusion indicates early stage of total insanity.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: shao@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (SHAO CHUNG-SHANG)
Subject: the name?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 07:51:26 GMT

In article <MZS=SXB@engin.umich.edu> echang@engin.umich.edu writes:
>
>> no.  their interpretations are based on their national interests.  listen to
>> the american politians, they always say american interests, not what other
>> people's perception.
>> 
>	Please read my statements more carefully.   How Americans calculate
>their interests is based on their perception on us.
 
this statement is just what i can not agree.  what can they gain from their
perception on us?  money?  a friend (do they treat us as a friend?)

>	I am not claiming something new.  I just want to avoid the danger
>of being claimed that ROC is part of PRC.   If we live in the shadow of
>"China", and we don't make it clear that we represent Taiwan, our diplomatic
>status won't go very far in the future.  I understand we still need a lot of
>effort to improve ourselves.

the shadow is not from the name - roc.  the issue is still the same:
change name can not advoid danger.  ros is roc, it is not part of prc.
but, most of countries recognize (or i can say follow) prc's claim: taiwan
is part of china. (gee! not roc)

so, where does the shadow from?  not the name, but the place we live - the
island.  i don't think mainland rulers will matter what we call ourselves.
they will be always against us.  so, if you want to avoid the danger, the
best way is moving away from taiwan, the place.  otherwise, the danger will
be always there before our noses.

>	Right!  Just let people know we represent Taiwan other than
>China is good enough for me.

then, i would rather use taipei as the name.  it makes me feel bigger,
since i am from taipei.  another reason is taipei is the biggest city
on the island.  it can well represent the island.  in fact, i think
taipei is more famous than taiwan in the world.
is republic of taipei good for you? 

roc represents the people who live in taiwan now.  it is totally different
from prc (i believe this is what you said - china) which controls the people
who live in mainland now.

>> another question is if we change our national name, other countries are
>> still away from us.  should we change another name and try again?  such
>> as repulic of island?
>> 
>	No, We will work hard to improve our international status.

this is what our government is doing now.  it is not 'will', the future tense.
it is 'now', the present tense.  changing our national name may make us have
nothing to improve; that is, we will lose everything under our national
name - roc.

cs shao.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: ccd@duann.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (David Duann)
Subject: New Post Test
Reply-To: duann@infonode.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corp. Huntsville Al.
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 21:39:03 GMT

This is a test.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
From: yu@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Fan Yu)
Subject: Re: The depreciation of RMB
Organization: Dept. of Physics & Astronomy, McMaster University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 02:33:06 GMT

In article <liqfk2INNias@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> stlin@stevelin.Eng.Sun.COM (Steven Lin) writes:
>Folks,
>
>If you have noticed, the value of RMB is going down and down.
>It has been depreciated many times since the China door is open.
>It has been in flexible rate day to day, city to city (I wonder
>why it changes city to city).
>
>It may go down 10:1 against the US dollar soon!
>If you have held RMB, take action to change the money now
>before it is too late!
>

Is this a conspiracy to devalue the RMB? Anyways, I won't be selling.
I keep mine as souvenirs. They'll be worth a million after 100 yrs.

FY

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: chshan@csie.nctu.edu.tw (S. Shann())
Subject: Hou You can get Chinese telnet
Organization: Computer Science & Information Engin., Chiao-Tung U, Taiwan, ROC
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 12:21:19 GMT

  Dear netter, it's me again:

  If you want the Chinese version of TELNET, you can

      %ftp ftp.csie.nctu.edu.tw
      username : ftp (or anonymous)
      passwd   : your IP address
      << user ftp (or anonymous) logged in >>
 
      ftp> cd /pub/msdod.NCSA/Chinese
      ftp> you can get the files now !

  then you get it!  
                                  Sincerely yours
                                             Shann 


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: echang@engin.umich.edu (Hsiou-Ping Chang)
Subject: Re: DATA: largest world economies
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 01:05:51 EST
Organization: The University of Michigan
Reply-To: echang@engin.umich.edu
Originator: changhp@fijan.engin.umich.edu


In article <1992Dec14.002836.9656@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, shao@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (SHAO CHUNG-SHANG) writes:
> In article <CNS=Lf#@engin.umich.edu> echang@engin.umich.edu writes:
> >
> >	Their interpretation will base on what they percieve.
> >The perception is mainly from Taiwan government and people of Taiwan. 
> >It is our goverment and citizen's job to show that we don't represent China;
> >we represent Taiwan.  We want China to leave us alone.
> 
> no.  their interpretations are based on their national interests.  listen to
> the american politians, they always say american interests, not what other
> people's perception.
> 
	Please read my statements more carefully.   How Americans calculate
their interests is based on their perception on us.
	 
> 
> there is one main difference between your statement and mine.  you think if we
> claim something new, we can receive better attitudes from other countries.
	I am not claiming something new.  I just want to avoid the danger
of being claimed that ROC is part of PRC.   If we live in the shadow of
"China", and we don't make it clear that we represent Taiwan, our diplomatic
status won't go very far in the future.  I understand we still need a lot of
effort to improve ourselves.

> 
> >	How do you feel when our Olympic baseball team got a sliver medal,
> >and the flag you saw was not representing us?  How I wished people around the
> >world at that time could've known without confusion that it was a team came 
> >from TAIWAN!!!
> 
> be honest, i feel bad.  but, remember the truth, in olympic, even taiwan
> can not be mentioned.  the name we use is chinese taipei.  why?  so,
> should we change our name as republic of taipei?  and change the olympic
> flag as our new national flag?  therefore, we can say there will be no
> confusion that we are people from taipei, and our flag is on the field.
> 
	Right!  Just let people know we represent Taiwan other than
China is good enough for me.

> another question is if we change our national name, other countries are
> still away from us.  should we change another name and try again?  such
> as repulic of island?
> 
	No, We will work hard to improve our international status.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: yfchyan@athena.mit.edu (Yih-Feng Chyan)
Subject: I need a ticket to Taipei
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:05:55 GMT

Hi, 

I need a ticket to Taipei at the end of Dec. or the beginning of Jan..
I prefer to have a returned ticket which allows me to have a stop-over in the
back journey.  Is there anyone who likes to transfer a redundant ticket to me
(female) ? Or can someone point me to some direction to find a cheap ticket?

Thanx in advance!

M. -J.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: changhp@engin.umich.edu (Hsiou-Ping Chang)
Subject: Re: Book Suggestion
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 19:59:07 EST
Organization: The University of Michigan
Reply-To: changhp@engin.umich.edu
Originator: changhp@fijan.engin.umich.edu


In article <1992Dec18.214200.18474@cbnews.cb.att.com>, liaohen@cbnews.cb.att.com (Heng-Hsin Liao) writes:
> For those who are willing to spend time to know more about Taiwan:
> 
> I would like to introduce a book to all of you. The name of the book
> is "T'ai-Wan T'i Ch'i" (Taiwan Geography). I forget the actual
> English name on the book. The author is Chen, Cheng-Hsiang, then
> National Taiwan University Professor. It is published by Prof. Chen's
> own geographical institute named after his father, "Fu Min", in early
> 1960 in three volumes.
> 
> If you've never seen this book, I guess you will be amazed that someone
> could make a geography book for a "small" island so thick (more than
> 1,500 pages.) Yes, it is a 30-year-old book. But it is so great that
> you just cannot miss it. 23 chapters (I hope I still remember it right)
> talk about the growth track of Taiwan. It is not just a geography book.
> You will know what's going on in Taiwan during the first 50 to 60 years
> of the century. To some sense, it is also a history book. You will see
> what was Taiwan then during Japan's occupation. To me, it is the best
> geography book on Taiwan of all time.
> 
> Where you can get the book? In Taiwan, you can find it in Taiwan Univ.,
> Cheng-Kung Univ., and Central Library. Other than these, I am not quite
> sure. In the US, I know uiuc.edu has it. So, I have strong reason to
> believe it won't be too hard to find. If anybody has more information,
> please also post it.
> 

 Here at umich.edu,  we have a copy.  You can check it out through
 interlibrary loan if you are interested in.

 CALL NUMBER: GB 322 .C34 T25
 Author:         Chen, Cheng-siang.
 Title:          T'ai-wan ti chih. A geography of Taiwan, by Cheng-siang Chen.
 Published:      Taipei. <#> 1959-61.
 Description:    3 v. (ix, 1309 p.) illus., diagrs., tables. 26 cm.
 Series:         Fu ming ch'an yeh ti li #, ti 94 #


Hsiou-Ping
Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:16262 soc.culture.china:32966
From: leiy@ul.ie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Taiwan vs Mainland To The Extreme
Date: 15 Dec 92 22:39:41 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland

In article <20149.2b2e59a4@ul.ie>, leiy@ul.ie writes:
> In article <1992Dec8.184557.23043@samba.oit.unc.edu>, Zhang.Hao@launchpad.unc.edu (zhang hao) writes:
>> In article <1992Dec4.135852.26039@u.washington.edu> seb@stein.u.washington.edu (-s e b a s t i a n-) writes:
>>>	oh yeah, make that 2, sucker! fuck some of the mainland mental 
>>>	disability students here at the u.s.  regardless how the situation
>>>	at mainland is improving, chinese people at mainland are simply
>>>	POOR, no money, no nothing. they suck big time! (not all, of course)
>>>	again, all i want to say is: most people from mainland still dress
>>>	like homeless, act like homeless, and talk and write on the net
>>>	like homeless. 
>>>	/seb@u.washing
> 
I got your messages about the Chinese people
.....very interesting...... and very rich coming from a stupid taiwanese 
Son Of A Bitch who is paid to lick the shit out of the American's Assholes.
You expend so much of your mental energy "thinking" how to kiss them better
that I am surprised you have time to think up such profound Bullshit.
Rumour has it that a pig fucked your mother (who as mentioned is a dog) while
she sucked an elephant and from this they got you!!!!!!!!! But as I say it
is only a rumour, 'cos most intelligent people assume that you are the 
left overs of a retarded Hippopotamus' miscarraige that slid down the sewer
in Taiwan and reappeared rearing  "its"  ugly head in the states...........
God Help America !!!!!!!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: liaohen@cbnews.cb.att.com (Heng-Hsin Liao)
Subject: Re: Internet in Taiwan
Organization: AT&T Bell Lab
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 05:44:39 GMT

From article <1992Dec14.013415.7472%ckshih@ne.nthu.edu.tw>, by ckshih@ne.nthu.edu.tw (Chun-Kuan Shih):
> 
>      We can read your news loud and clear!  I guess we are using
> BITNET.  If you have a chinese system with BIG-5 code, you can
> read the following in Chinese
> 
>      s~
> 
>      Stop using English when we can talk in our own languages
> and characters. 

Nice suggestion! But isn't it better that we use Unicode instead of
BIG-5? That's the way to go.

By the way, are there Unicode applications in Taiwan?


Heng-Hsin

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: liaohen@cbnews.cb.att.com (Heng-Hsin Liao)
Subject: Re: The name? (Was Re: [News] Chinese Students Rank....)
Organization: AT&T Bell Lab
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:17:49 GMT

> let's do a little experiment:
> 
> 1. What's your first impression of this subject line
>    ' [News] Chinese Students Rank....'?  
>    In your fisrt impression, are Taiwanese students included here?
> 2. After you continue to read that post, you see the third item is about
>    Taiwan.  What name do you prefer here?  (ROC; R.O. China; Taiwan,ROC;
>    Taiwan; Chinese,Taipei; or doesn't matter as long as you know what it is.)
> 3. Do you agree with this kind of category?  Do you think Taiwan's statistic
>    number should be inlucded into the category 'China'?
> 
> The answers to the questions can reflect your opinions about these 'hot issues':
> the name of Taiwan; the unification of China; the independence of Taiwan; etc.
> 
> Think your first-pop-up-mind answers.  Good Luck!
> 
> N. P. Chen 		npchen@physics.purdue.edu
> 12/14/92

I would say people in China won't be proud of the fact that Taiwan's
average income (GDP? I forget the term) is near 10 thousand USD.

I would say people in China won't be proud of the fact that Taiwan
accummulates billions of dollars fortune. But they just want it back.

I would say people in China will be very happy to see China ranks ahead
of Taiwan in all kinds of statistics.

See something? They just want you by all means. But they treat you
like foreigners. The fact is we are foreigners to them. The fact is
they also want you to be part of them without paying respect to who
we are, what we achieve.

Then who are we? Think about it. Guck luck to all of you on the
test.


Heng-Hsin

Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:16057 soc.culture.china:32387