HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Aric.Caley@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov 17 1992
Date: 20 Dec 92  17:52:00

> Organization: University of Waterloo
> From: papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod)
> Message-ID: <BzKpzA.3op@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>
> Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
>
> >      KEYBOARD GARAGE AND MULTIPLE SCREENS
>
> I don't know what a keyboard garage is,
>
> I'm not sure if you are talking hardware or software multiple screens,
> but multiple screens is done on the Mac, and perhaps has been since
> it's invention.  It is also done on the PC for I don't know how long.
> It's really not a monumental discovery.
>
> If you are talking software, the multiple screen is just an extension
> of the virtual desktop concept.

He's  talking  HARDWARE.   The  Amiga  hardware  allows  for true, multiple
screens,  in  a way thats different from any computer I have ever seen.  On
the  Amiga,  multiple  screens are just that:  Truly seperate screen areas:
each  with  their  own  (possibly different) resolutions and colour depths,
frame-buffer, windows, etc.  They can all be "dragged" up and down, similar
to the blackboards typical to science classrooms.

The  advantages are obvious:  You dont have ALL your windows on one screen,
getting  in  the  way of each other; applications that open lots of windows
can  open  their own screen to put them on.  Applications that want lots of
colours,  or  special  resolutions, can get that with their own screen (and
conversely,  if  you  dont  want  a  program  to  run  on a slow 256 colour
Workbench, it can open a very fast 4 colour screen).

While  we're  at  it,  another somewhat related feature of Amiga screens is
that  they  can  be MUCH larger than the visible area - you could have, for
instance,  a  1280 x 800 virtual screen with only a 640 x 400 part visible.
The  screen  will  then scroll around automaticaly when the pointer reaches
the  bounds  of  the  visible  screen.  The only limitation is memory - the
chips  can handle resolutions in excess of 32k x 32k (but you couldn't make
a  screen  that  large - it'd need 128 megs for B&W!).  I don't know of any
computer  that  has the stock ability to do this in hardware (I believe the
common term for this is "hardware panning").

 -Dances With Coyotes - World's slowest programer-Given that God is infinate-
 -AKA Dances V2.0, Coyote, Critter, Magnet, Major-and  that  the universe is-
 -- Former Net-Lurker - YES, an AMIGA godammit! --also  infinate,  would you-
 --- Still limping along with AmigaOS 1.3  :(  ---like a toasted  tea  cake?-


--- Maximus 2.01wb
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)
Subject: Byte A4000/A3000T-040 Review
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 05:14:42 GMT

For those who haven't had an opportunity to pick up the January issue
of Byte, there is a review of the A4000 and A3000T/040 in the article
entitled "Commodore Gets Tough" by Tom Yager (p. 239-40).
Some notable excerpts:

"Backed by 68040 processors and a more powerful operating system,
 Commodore Business Machines' two newest Amigas provide fresh
 ammunition to compete against today's multimedia-capable Macs and
 PCs. For Commodore, the new A3000T-040/200 and A4000-040/120, are
 important products in the Amiga's evolution...
 
 Amigas are now firmly entrenched in video, 3-D, and multimedia
 production markets. World-class applications like the Video Toaster
 Scala, Deluxe Paint, and AmigaVision (included with every Amiga)
 show the value and viability if the Amiga in the market it dominates.
 The performance boost, coupled with other software and hardware
 enhancements, brings the Amiga into the 1990s."

Likes:

 o excellent integer and floating point performance
 o significant OS improvements and smarter boot ROMs
 o high-density floppy

Dislikes:

 o CBM forbids internal expansion by owners
 o 256-colour modes on A4000 are slow

Recommendations:

 o fast, stable and affordable systems for 3-D, video and multimedia,
   as well as for general applications

Now it's time to start bringing out the interesting stuff :).

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: sjchmura@kimbark.uchicago.edu (steven joseph chmura)
Subject: Re: 1200/4000 pricing
Reply-To: sjchmura@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 18:00:28 GMT

In article <C012r8.JH0@fiu.edu> freire2a@serss0 (Angel Freire) writes:
>
>$2699 for the 4000
>$ 579 for the 1200
^^^^^^^
The "power up" price is $599.
>
>as an added bonus, both of these systems were being bundled with both
>ADPro and Dpaint IV. those sound like VERY fair prices to me, especially
^^^^^^^
No, the A1200 comes with final copy 1.3.  With 2megs of ram, adpro will
not run well :)


The problem I see is the cost of turning the A1200 into a useable system.
To add fast ram:

	Microbotics MX1200 - $149 best mail-order price AmigaMan
	4 meg simm: $169 with purchase of the above (Memory world now
		wants $175)

	85megHD with purchase = $289

When you add this up, add tax and shipping, you can hit
$1300 and still not have a monitor!

We need cheaper ram boards/ a way to use 3.5" drives via a cable
or something.  $1300+$450 for a decent/shitty multiscan is
not great for an 020 powered machine.

But, alas, the A1200 I saw played 736x482x4 DCTV anims at about
100 frames/second :)  Well, maye not, but these were "fly through "
type.  Also, the new ANim-7 format really speeds these things up (32
bit writes versus anim-5 8 bit writes).


-- 
________________________________________________________________________________Steven Chmura				University of Chicago Medical School(M1)
  "Given enough time, the impossible becomes probable, and the probable
	inevitable.."  -George Wald, "On the Origins of Life"

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 20:27:55 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

John Bickers (jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz) wrote:
:
:> It's all a matter of definition, isn't it?  The think I find annoying is that
:> you think that *your* definition is the only one that matters.
:
:     I think to you it IS just a matter of definition. The extent to
:     which you shift your choice of definitions around is what makes
:     your arguments a waste of time.
:

No offense, but I'll take a textbook definition over yours any day :-P

:
:     It's sort of like two people arguing about the merits of planes
:     and helicopters, then a third person starts arguing about the
:     definition of "fly".
:

No, it's sort of like two people arguing about the merits of Corvettes and
Vipers, then a third person starts arguing about the definition of "car".

:
: *** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
:
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)
Subject: Re: 1200/4000 pricing
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 21:33:57 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.072830.8845@midway.uchicago.edu> sjchmura@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

>Are there 1-800 numbers for Canadian mail order places?  $1000 US is a real
>deal.

I'm not aware of any 1-800 mail order outlets in Canada, but for a couple of
dollars in long distance fees, most retailers will gladly ship anywhere in
North America, provided that you pay shipping. 

>If anyone has any info on these great Canadian prices and how we in
>the states could take advantage of them please let me know.

First I would check with CBM to see if warranties will be honoured on
Canadian units in the U.S. If you're interested in dealer listings for
Canada, I can then oblige.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: engb@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Ben Eng)
Subject: Re: Future Amiga chipsets
Organization: Jet Penguin Lavatories
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 23:43:36 GMT

In <1992Dec28.210422.18243@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:

>Mr. Mike" Passaretti (mrmike@michelotti.ae.ge.com) wrote:

>: Right.  We're hearing discussion on what makes an OS from an
>: applications programmer. 

>Even if I were "just an applications programmer" (and I'm not), why am
>I any less qualified than you to say what is and what is not an operating
>system?  Is a driver any less qualified than a mechanic to say what is
>and what is not a car?

That's not necessarily true.  Things appear differently to
different people.  The OS may appear as a virtual machine to
one person, and parts of the OS may appear to be application
programs to someone else.  It just depends on your point of
view---like relativity.  :-)

>OS's don't exist for OS developers; they exist
>for application programmers and users; *they* are the ones who define what
>goes into an OS, not you.

That's also debatable.  The interaction certainly does not flow in
one direction only.  Users can define all they want---they don't have
to make it work.

Ben
-- 
e-mail: engb@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca or ben@jetpen.gts.org (Ben Eng)
UofT EngSci 9T2                   ``We are all masochists here.''
Home: (416)-979-8761, (416)-979-7885
From: torban@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Torban Bennett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: NO MORE *&#*$(^*& FEMALE BIMBO ADS!!!!!!!!
Date: 23 Dec 1992 02:21:39 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au

mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:

>In article <1992Dec1.214037.27948@ugle.unit.no> eyvind@Lise.Unit.NO (Eyvind Bernhardsen) writes:

[stuff about drugs]

>>...if you carry a gun, on the other hand, you're a potential threat 
>>to anyone who gets in range.

>Same with a baseball bat.  The range is smaller, but still easy to
>bash a skull with.  Should we ban those too?

Good God!  Now I am getting bored with this thread.  Mike, have you been
reading this thread at all?  Why do I feel compelled to spell out to so 
many people why a gun is more dangerous than a baseball bat ?(or a knife
or an IBM PC)
Really, can't people think about what they're saying for a moment!
In fact, I can't make myself do it again (for the umteenth time!)
if anyone can't think why baseball bats ARE NOT a good comparison
to a gun, then email me for the

"Fact-File:
   Everything you ever wanted to know about heavy blunt object vs 
   sharp objects vs projectile weapons;
   an innocent until proven guilty, totally free and unopressed persons 
   guide to anti-crime devices"

[more stuff]

Mike, I think this thread is really REALLY wearing thin, if you or anyone
feels the need to perpetuate it, please send email to me, and we'll
flame on merrily over the summer (or in your case, winter) break.

Back to the _real_ advocacy,

Torban Bennett -- torban@murdoch.edu.AU --->
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:08:17 GMT

In article <Bzns93.D6v@NeoSoft.com> peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>In article <1992Dec22.055037.29390@usl.edu> das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>> ...or run text-based program from other floppy disks.  Can the Amiga 
>> boot off a floppy?  Uh huh.  Then what do the vast majority of 
>> Amigans do?  *Right*.  They swap disks.
>
>Well, I fit the Manx C development kit, including an editor, and a term program
>onto a floppy that boots me up into Workbench. On my second drive I had the
>application and appropriate libraries.

Good for you.  Really.  If a half-meg of MSDOS was in ROM we'd fit a lot more
onto a boot disk, too.

Oh well.  A computer adapts to the hardware.

>
>Not to mention that the Amiga *manages* disks. Once you launch an app, you
>can pull out the floppy and it will request the volume you need by name when
>you need it. Much better than DOS, or even the Mac (where guessing which
>drive it's going to save a file on is a game of chance).

That's nice.  Adaption to the hardware.  Even though I'd like this better
control over floppies, it isn't supra-important with harddrives... unless
one HAS to boot fromfloppy (like we were talking about).

>Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
--
Dan Stephenson                                         das9674@usl.edu  
"Yes Dan, I have heard of Ultima Underworld.  From my point of view it
 appears to be a rather large stick which you seem to be using to beat
 everbody in this group with." -Mark Steyn, comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 28 Dec 1992 18:52:56 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <1992Dec28.151721.12729@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>I beg to differ.  I'm not the one writing articles denouncing everything
>from Intel CPUs to Madonna.

The point was this:  Just because a million people buy something
doesn't mean that what they bought is anything of
worth/value/craftsmanship.  MS-DOS fails to be a miracle of software
engineering by just a bit, and yet here it is, the most popular
non-OS since...  Well, since never.  Never before have millions of
people made a move towards running a program-loader rather than a real
operating system.  Anyways, that was the point.

>Actually, I believe it *is* fortunate.  If everyone thought like you, they'd
>all buy the same machine, and the industry would stagnate.  As bad as you may
>think Windows is, it did force Commodore to polish the WB and start thinking
>about DIG/VM.

No, everybody'd be buying machines that had some technical merit,
likely.  Anyways, again, that's NOT the point.  Millions of people
buying something doesn't make that something good.  I suppose that,
under you above statement...

Since MS-DOS sold millions and millions of copies, C= should consider
wiping out everything in AmigaOS except LoadSeg?

Again, it's your sweeping generalizations that bite you in the ass.

>Because we were having a factual discussion, and you decided to use
>your opinions as if they were fact:
>
>	"Name one worthwhile PC OS with a consistent user interface."
>	"Windows."
>	"That's not a worthwhile PC OS."
>
>See what I mean?

Agreed, that was a bit off.  However, claiming that Windows is
suddenly God's gift to Software Architecture isn't a whole lot better.
Unfortunately, Windows falls to the left of being a good OS, and NT
falls way to the right.  OS/2 has a good begining.  Plan 9, OS/9,
AmigaOS, and even SOME unix systems have hit at least part of the nail
on the head, and have features that some high-end unix systems and
things under design are just now getting.

Like the flexibility of Plan 9's/AmigaOS's filesystems...

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
From: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 28 Dec 92 04:45:01 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers) writes:
>    This is FALSE. On my '386 at work, it takes approximately a second
>    to switch from one "screen" to another, particularly when

Speaking of this, OS/2 doesn't allow you to have the benefits of the full
screen with having a GUI as well, sure, you can open up a window (sometimes)
but there are text only apps that require you to use full screen.  I know on
1.3 Communications Manager required you to use full screen.

With the Amiga, you can pull down a "full screen" halfway and still use your
Workbench and full screen at the same time.  This is called flexability.
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 17:40:56 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Dec21.180723.23302@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)
Subject: Re: Winter CES (was:CDTV console due soon)
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:52:37 GMT

In article <38123@cbmvax.commodore.com> kreckman@cbmvax.commodore.com
(Steve Kreckman) writes:

>The dates for the Winter Consumer Electronics show in Las Vegas are Jan 7-12.

Thanks. Now tell us what will be released :).

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: Dan got the Amiga 1000!
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 05:37:26 GMT

Ok, I've REALLY LOOKED for the way to switch to 640X400, but I
cannot find it.  Where??  I have looked a lot in the Preference
program, but I didn't see it.

Thanks-
--
Dan Stephenson                                         das9674@usl.edu  
"Yes Dan, I have heard of Ultima Underworld.  From my point of view it
 appears to be a rather large stick which you seem to be using to beat
 everbody in this group with." -Mark Steyn, comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:32402 comp.sys.amiga.misc:19239
From: foy@aero.org (Richard Foy)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Date: 30 Dec 1992 23:34:41 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aerospace.aero.org

In article <Bzns93.D6v@NeoSoft.com> peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
...
>
>On a single-drive machine the best you could probably manage would be to use
>a word-processor or spreadsheet. You know, the things most DOS users do most
>of the time.
>
...
>Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.


It used to bother me a lot when I would read threads like this one. I would 
get angry at the way people would believe the hype about the DOS machines.

Perhaps it was because my first computer was a TI-99/4A which became an
orphan early on. So I was concerned that the Amiga might become an orphan. 

Now I am not concerned. I know that any Amiga is the most cost effective
machine, in particular for things like video, animations etc.

Many people complain about how the youth of today don't read, how they 
just watch TV or play video games. That is a silly complaint. The world
of today ane even more so of tomorrow will be a world in which communicating
will be done by video etc. How did Clinton win the election. Primarily by
good use of the video world.

So I believe that the people who use DOS machines, who primarily use
them for word processors and spreadsheets, will become the second class
citizens of the future. Those who work with Amigas and perhaps MACs wil
become the world leaders of the future. 

Richard Foy 	Standard Disclaimer

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 20:49:51 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

John Bickers (jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz) wrote:
:
:     Even inferior PC demos seem to require more RAM than demos for
:     the A500.
:

You're probably right.  The Amiga OWNS the demo market.

:
: *** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
:
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
Subject: Re: Future Amiga chipset
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 05:52:20 GMT

In article <38103@cbmvax.commodore.com> andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes:
>In article <BzMEAy.Esu@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>>   You hope.  The noose around the A1200's neck is the software situation.  And
>>Commodore is not taking the steps they need to improve this situation.  As a
>>for instance, take a look at the letter written to me by the people who 
>>developed 'DataTax'.  These people do not believe the Amiga has a large enough
>>installed base in the U.S. to support even one good tax preparation program.
>>The letter was posted to comp.sys.amiga.announce a few days ago.
                                          ^^^^^^^^

   Oooops, I made a typo.  That should read: comp.sys.amiga.applications.


>I've not seen it;  I'll certainly look at it, keeping in mind
>that I have no way of verifying what your letter to them said
>(ie it could have flamed them, it could have been a letter asking
>them never to support the Amiga), and I have no way of verifying
>that their letter to you was anything like you posted.)

   They apparently replied to a posting.  I never sent them any letters; I 
only posted a message to comp.sys.amiga.applications complaining about the
total lack of tax preparation software for the Amiga.  They replied, AGREEING
that the Amiga user base in the U.S. could not support even one good tax
preparation program.

   BTW, I am not the one who posted the letter.  I re-posted it to .misc,
though.  It was originally posted somewhere else, and re-posted to 
.applications.  So I guess I re-re-posted it. :-)

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 26 Dec 1992 18:58:51 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

'>> That depends on the hardware lergely, does it not?  I'd bet a mega
'>> Gateway 486/66 with a LocalBus video of ATI Graphics Ultra Pro would
'>
'>    Given comparable hardware, Workbench will outperform the OS/2
'>    thing. If an A500 outperforms a '386 at window updates, then a

	Sure, but whats the resolution and colordepth of WB on that A500?
     Saying an A500 running a low resolution 4 color WB outperforms a 386
     running Win3.x or OS2 at a minimum of 640x480x16 isn't saying much.

'>    suitably beefed up Amiga will also outperform a '486. Even if the

        Yeah, but whats that beefed up Amiga gonna cost?  The above system
     that Dan mentioned is already the same price as an A4000 without a 
     monitor.  Plus it contains more ram, 3x larger HD, 15" monitor and
     graphics that are as fast if not faster then the A4000.

'>    update speed is the same, or close enough for the difference to be
'>    negligible, the Amiga will be burning less CPU time to get that
'>    performance.

     And it will also be burning a much larger whole in your wallet.

							Greg Greene
                                                        ggg@kepler.unh.edu


'>*** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
'>***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***