From: ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: do dishless wheels ride differently?
Date: 27 Aug 92 17:47:32 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

I ask if I might be able to feel the difference between dishless and "normal"
rear wheels:
>> Am I imagining things, or is it possible that having nearly identical
>> tension in the spokes on both sides of a wheel would make it behave differ-
>> ently from a wheel with substantially higher-tensioned spokes on one side --
>> to a degree I could detect?

Jobst concludes:
> The conclusion I come to is that you are imagining the difference.
then asks:
>
>What is more interesting is how you achieved the greater axle length.  If
>this is a typical hub and freewheel combination, the axle overhang from the
>right side hub bearing is now substantially greater.  Every mm counts
>heavily and they aren't good at the outset.  Also the chain line has not
>gotten any better but then you may not want to use the small CW with the
>smaller rear sprockets.

I achieved the greater axle length by buying a 130 mm axle and sticking it
into the hub in place of the old one.  I then added spacers until the over-
axle assembly, which includes the hub, was as wide as the space between the
dropouts.  Since the hub uses bearing cartridges there was no adjusting to
be done and the whole process took about two minutes, most of which was spent
removing and reinstalling the quick release lever.

My statement that I was left with a dishless wheel suggests that most of the
extra axle wound up on the left side of the hub body.  In fact, I added all
the spacers on that side.  The axle overhang from the right side hub bearing
is therefore exactly what it was before, while there is 9mm more axle exposed
to the left side of the hub.  I'm using the same ultra-six freewheel as before,
and it's just as close to the dropouts as it was on my 121mm-spaced frame.
The axles in these hubs, BTW, are 12mm-thick aluminum, and their maker,
Bullseye, claims to have had a single bent axle in nearly 20 years of producing
hubs with the same axles for tandems and mt. bike/BMX uses.  The ease with
which I was able to retrofit my hubs convinces me that they are well designed.

You're right about the chainline having gotten worse.  Even though I'm running
a triple crank that sits further out from the frame than a double the large
chainring lines up between the second- and third-position cogs, and the middle
ring is a tad left of the fourth cog (counting from the outside.)  I've in
effect lost the middle_ring x smallest cog gear and gained the large_ring x
fifth cog gear.  I never use the smallest chainring with other than the larger
three cogs anyway.

>It's all a compromise.  You must find what works best for your bike.

That's what I'm trying to do.  I'm going to be quite interested to see how
long a 36-spoke dishless 700c rear wheel goes between truings.  I'm not a
very experienced wheel builder, and I've been averaging 2-3000 miles between
rear wheel touchups, but am betting that I'll go a lot longer on these wheels
-- even if there's no difference in how they behave on the road.

Thanks for your comments -- everyone.
-- 
****************************************************************************
Eric House			"My employer doesn't share its opinions with
			   	 me, so I can share only mine with you"
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles