HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: russell@alpha3.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Russell Schulz)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: PI
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 01:00:07 MST
Organization: Private System, Edmonton, AB, Canada
X-Newsreader: rusnews v0.97

bjackson@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Ben Jackson) writes:

> I read an article which made fun of people seeking large numbers of PI
> digits, as a circle with the radius of earth's orbit can be approximated to
> within 2cm with only 7(?) digits.  Can anyone cite an exact source? (what?
> here in the alt.folklore heirarchy?  heh)

A History of Pi
Petr Beckmann
ISBN 0-88029-418-3

Third Edition: p100:

``
But for the most part, I suspect, the driving force behind these
calculations was the spirit that makes people go over the Niagara Falls
in a barrel or to top the world record of pole sitting by another 20
minutes.  The digits beyond the first few decimal places are of no
practical or scientific value.  Four decimal places are sufficient for the
design of the finest engines; ten decimal places would be sufficient to
obtain the circumference of the earth within a fraction of an inch if
the earth were a smooth sphere (in proportion, it is smoother than a
billiard ball).  The most exacting requirement that I can think of in a
practical application is a not very common case of computer program-
ing.  Computers do the actual arithmetic operations only with rational
numbers, which are used to approximate irrational numbers.  In
rounding off the last significant figure, they can sometimes play quite
treacherous tricks on the programmer, and to guard against the effect
of the rounding error in computations that involve long sequences of
certain operations (for example, very small differences between very
large numbers), special precautions must be taken.  In FORTRAN, a
widely used computer language, this is achieved by...
''

ok, so it's a bit dated, and his editor misspells `programming', but all in
all I quite enjoyed this book (and got it new for CDN $12.95)
-- 
Russell Schulz  russell@alpha3.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca  ersys!rschulz  Shad 86c
From: d40937@boole (Jean Yves Desbiens)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: IBMs true monsters?
Date: 21 Dec 92 20:41:07 GMT
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Do any of you know anything about IBM's very big mainframes,
at our school they upgraded one they had for about 15 years and
it cost millions to do it. I think the model of the computer is 3090
( please correct me ) and it runs the MVS operating system that can
create virtual machines
on which it is even possible to test a new version of MVS. For 
a special project I had to do they gave me a CMS account that gave
me a virtual machine with a big timeslice, wow was it fast to
compile, a thousand line of code in not even a second, the only 
thing that slowed it down was disk access and even that was pretty
fast. If compiling was nice debuging was somewhat of a pain, code 
that worked perfectly at home did strange thing on this computer,
variable declarations, scope, type all conspired to make my life
miserable, added to overall border sensitivity (arrays,stack,etc).
A lot of times the program crashed because I had attempted to 
access things that were outside the address space of my account. 
I find this strange because the same code work in UNIX ;
if it would have been because of sensibility of multitasking
machines to those errors they would have shown up on them to. 

Anyway, I found that the power that was given to me didn't help me
that much because of monstrous nature of the system. It is not 
of developper's dream IMHO of course. Those systems are good for
things like big company accounting and other such formidable tasks
but not for the tinkerers like myself who likes to put their feet up
on top of their computer box :-).   

By the way, the main use at our school for this system is accounting,
students records managing, batch job processing ( the dreaded JPL ),
mathematical analysis and compiling (about 100 terminals), and 
finally the biggest user of ressources CATIA the cad program 
( about 10 terminals that also do part of the processing ).
A computer that does all this without blinking is a giant, and
we can't help but be impressed. 

If you know more about the machine, I would like to hear about it?
Email me or post if you feel that everyone should know.
--
SEIZE THE DAY, MAKE YOUR LIFE EXTRAORDINARY .  "Dead Poets Society"

Jean-Yves Desbiens                  | d40937@info.polymtl.ca
Etudiant en genie informatique      | 
Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal Can | To indeed be a god ...,
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Binary clock for X Windows.
From: pgut1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 12:15:11 GMT
 <TPAQUETTE.92Dec23093654@gumby.ita.lgc.com> <1992Dec23.170810.24300@src.honeywell.com> <BzrKA8.77I@NeoSoft.com>
Organization: Computer Science Dept. University of Auckland

In <BzrKA8.77I@NeoSoft.com> peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes:

>In article <1992Dec23.170810.24300@src.honeywell.com> englehar@src.honeywell.com (Matt Englehart) writes:
>> In article <TPAQUETTE.92Dec23093654@gumby.ita.lgc.com> tpaquette@ita.lgc.com (Trevor Paquette) writes:
>> >In article 9806@aio.jsc.nasa.gov, mccoy@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (Daniel J. McCoy) writes:
>> >>bill@solaria (Bill Neisius) writes:
>> >>|>Douglas W O'Neal (doug@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu) wrote:
>> >>|>:norm@bnr.ca writes:
>> >>|>:->bret@muppet.bt.co.uk (Bret Giddings) writes:
>> >>|>:->|> What! another clock for wimps. I use a real clock, one that displays the number
>> >>|>:->|> of seconds since Jan 1st 1970.
>> >>|>:->This is starting to sound like the "We were *so* poor..." skit from Monty
>> >>|>:->Python.  BTW, (let's see what I can come up with), *I* use the number of seconds
>> >>|>:->since Jan 1, 1970 but in Greenwich Mean Time :-)
>> >>|>:*I* use the number of seconds since Nov 17, 1858.  (I can't help it, I was
>> >>|>:raised on VMS and UN*X time doesn't come naturally to me.)
>> >>|>Oh yeah? MY clock counts from January 1, 4713 B.C. (start of the 
>> >>|>astronomical Julian calendar)
>> >>>OH YEAH???  My clock counts seconds backwards from Star Date 938943.1299,
>> >>>the second coming of Jesus.
>> >> Pah! Child's play.  *My* clock sends pulses direct to a composite screen on my
>> >>retina via electrodes crimped into my skull which receive sync from a transmitter
>> >>on my Moulinex food processor.
>> >  HA! My clock actually displays the current astronomical sky and I have to 
>> > figure out the time from the star patterns and placements!
>> 
>> HA! My clock actually displays the current astronomical sky from a random
>> location in the galaxy, and I have to figure out the time from the star
>> patterns and placements!

>Well, I started to make a clock from one of those "build a working paper
>clock" books, but I got carried away. It's now a complete working paper
>Analytical Engine, and I run an 80386 simulator on that. I'm booting 386BSD
>now, and in a couple of years when it comes up I'll have Xclock running.
>I don't think it's going to keep very good time, though... I keep getting
>silo overflows reading WWV at 110 baud. I guess I'll need to build a paper
>16550 to fix that.

I once built a clock which used a pulsar as it's timebase, followed by a
chain of black holes rigged up in a divide-by-two configuration, and an 
array of quasars as the readout, but then I couldn't find a case to put it 
all in so I had to sell it to the Arabs to cover the material costs.  Pity 
really...
 
--
Peter.  <pgut1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz>
 `x_x'  Have you shot your wolf today?  :-)
  'U`    

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,soc.culture.nordic
From: fischer@iesd.auc.dk (Lars Peter Fischer)
Subject: Re: National character sets (Re: @ (was: 8-bit news (was Re: Commodore keyboard layout.)))
Organization: Mathematics and Computer Science, Aalborg University
	<1992Nov26.200102.11853@pollux.lu.se> <ByDv1H.7z1@NeoSoft.com>
	<1992Nov27.175154.7860@lth.se>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:25:08 GMT


>>>>> "Kurt" == Kurt Swanson (kurt@dna.lth.se)

Kurt> btw, Scandianvians call these "weinerbrd" - as in Vienna, where they
Kurt> originate from.  

What's that silly o-umlaut doing there? The correct form is, of
course, wienerbrd.

/Lars
--
Lars Fischer, fischer@iesd.auc.dk | It takes an uncommon mind to think of
CS Dept., Aalborg Univ., DENMARK. | these things.  -- Calvin
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology
From: alderson@cisco.com (Rich Alderson)
Subject: Re: Proper pronounciation of 'Kibo'
Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers
Originator: alderson@leland.Stanford.EDU
Reply-To: alderson@cisco.com (Rich Alderson)
Organization: Cisco Systems (MIS)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 21:17:35 GMT

In article <1h5b27INNe3b@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, harrisot@cps (Timothy R Harrison) writes:
>In article <1992Dec19.095027.7642@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec18.151353.9559@adimail.uucp> tel@adimail.uucp (Terry Monks) writes:
>>
>>>You don't need to, the pronoun concept is included in the word, which
>>>declines
>>>		  Kibo
>>>		  Kibas
>>>		  Kibat
>>>		  Kibamus
>>>		  Kibant
>>>		  Klaatu     (Kibare is *very* irregular)
>>>
>>                  ^^^^^^
>>
>>Sheesh!  I thought that KIBO was Gort's love child.
>>
>>cj "Gort! Klaatu borata nicto!" l
>Isn't kibo declined
>
>	Kibo
>	Kibas
>	Kibat
>	Kibamus
>	Kibatis
>	Kibant
>?
>
>Tim

"kibo" is never declined, and is always conjugated!
-- 
Rich Alderson   'I wish life was not so short,' he thought.  'Languages take
                such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about.'
                                                        --J. R. R. Tolkien,
alderson@leland.stanford.edu                              _The Lost Road_
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: dp@world.std.com (Jeff DelPapa)
Subject: Re: The most dangerous thing...
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:05:43 GMT

In article <1781@ocpt.ccur.com> jruschme@opus.starlab.csc.com (John Ruschmeyer) writes:
>Over lunch, a couple of friends and I started discussing the old
>"The most dangerous thing is..." line.  We remember the basic three:
>
>	1) ... a programmer with a screwdriver.
>
Actually I think a programmer with a soldering iron is by far the more
dangerous.

another few candidates

	.... an elected representative with half a brain.
	.... a bureaucrat with spending authority.
	.... a five year old child with a hammer.

<dp>
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:18300 sci.math:17376 comp.compression:4220
From: davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,sci.math,comp.compression
Subject: Re: Compressing decimal expansion of pi (was Re: PI)
Date: 23 Dec 92 20:10:05 GMT
Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady NY

In article <1992Dec22.221324.14115@pollux.lu.se>, magnus@thep.lu.se (Magnus Olsson) writes:

| But surely _that_ is cheating! :-) This last method presupposes knowledge
| that the number being compressed actually *is* pi to N decimals, and 
| with that knowledge the entire 1 Mb+ file can be compressed to the
| string "pi to N decimals". But what if 69 random digits were changed? 
| 
| Converting the entire decimal fraction to binary is of course more
| "honest", but it's non-local: converting a million-digit decimal
| fraction to binary involves manipulating 3 million-bit binary
| fractions. Huffman encoding, in contrast, is a local operation.

  So? What's wrong with cheating? Archivers starting with ARC used to
try several compression algorithms and use the one best suited to the
data. And they got better compression than any of the existing programs.
That's the unique technology in ARC, as far as I can tell no one ever
did that before, and I'm not sure I can document an archive with
compressed files but uncompressed directory information.

  You could take the analogy to the point of called a compressed file a
program which executes on a pseudo-machine called an expandor, who's
output is the unique original file. Is that not the case? Better
compression means a pseudo machine with a more compact code, or better
code for the existing pseudo machine.

-- 
bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
    Keyboard controller has been disabled, press F1 to continue.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: VCS processor (was Re: Game machine processors)
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 15:55:38 GMT

In article <1i63h4INN7tu@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> john@gu.uwa.edu.au (John West) writes:
> If you want another horror story, there's a Sinclair Spectrum (don't know
> what you Americans called it)

Sinclair quit trying to sell these things over here before the Spectrum came
out. Then there was the Jupiter ACE: a Spectrum with Forth instead of Basic.
I thought that quite a smart idea at the time, but people looking for CHEAP
computer were unlikely to think Forth so cool.
-- 
Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
 `-_-'   Oletko halannut suttasi tnn?
  'U`    
Tarjoilija, tm ateria el viel.
From: samuel@front.se
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: PI
Date: 29 Dec 92 05:32:07 GMT
Organization: Samuel Gustaf Siren

In article <1992Dec28.195328.19162@icaen.uiowa.edu>, dsiebert@icaen.uiowa.edu 
(Doug Siebert) writes:

> It isn't proven (to my knowledge at least) that PI is nonterminating.  If
> those who calculate PI on and on hit a string of 10^100 0's they would
> probably assume they have found all the digits of PI, wouldn't they?  But
> they couldn't be *sure*! :-)

I'm almost sure that PI is proven to be non-rational and also non-algebraic
(I'm not 100% sure about this since I haven't discussed PI with anyone since
'86). 
However, if PI is non-rational, then PI is also non-terminating (please note
that the other way around doesn't work).
Maybe some PI expert out there can confirm that it is proven that PI (and E)
is non-rational and non-algebraic ? 

/SS
-- 
+----------------------+--------------------------------------+
|                      |        / \                           |
| Samuel Gustaf Siren  |      __!_/_                          |
|                      |    / \ |  / \                        |
|                      |   |/  || | \__oW)----------          |
| All opinions and     |   !! / /\ \                          |
| questions are my     |     / /  \ \                         |
| own /SS              |    //    //                          |
|                      |   /|    ((                           |
+----------------------+--------------------------------------+
From: guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Operating System Destiny
Date: 31 Dec 92 21:48:08 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara

>Coincidence or _Something_ More?

Yes, yes, and Dave Cutler was, I think, the prime mover behind both of
them.  It's been noted several times before....
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris)
Subject: Re: "FOO" and Re: 8008 related to PDP-11? (was: What is so greate ...)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:11:22 GMT

slb22@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Seth "the Lesser") writes:

>>[details of the PDP-1 assembler syntax, identical to the PDP-8 syntax
>> (gee, I wonder why that is?) deleted]

>What did MACRO use for literals? Or did it have any such concept?

Nothing fancy, but it had a quite usable mechanism for defining and
using literals -- including the ability to define a complete opcode-plus-
operands as a literal.

Joe Morris
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp8
From: thayne@unislc.uucp (Thayne Forbes)
Subject: Re: The NOVA and the PDP-11 (Was Re: WANTED: PDP-10 or 11)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: HomeVax
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 00:05:58 GMT

Seth the Lesser (slb22@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu) wrote:
: tyzuk@cs.UAlberta.CA (Tyzuk William N) writes:
: >
: >Lessee now... I think it was a CDC1700 mini that had a 256k word (??)
: >drum (actually a disk but they called it a drum) which came with a plastic
: >hammer and maintenance manual which prescribed tapping the cards with
: >the hammer to cure intermittant faults!  This was an actual recommended and
: >authorized maintenance procedure!  Sigh.... the good ol' days :-)  NOT.
: 
: Good ol' days my bleeding arse.  We have a pack of Sun SPARCstations here at
: CTR with cut-rate hard drives that freeze up whenever we power down.  The best
: way to unfreeze them (saith my boss, and I've seen him do it with excellent
: results) is to tap them with a hammer.  Lightly, of course.
: 
This time honored maintenance technique was in real danger of becoming a 
lost art a few years ago, but Apple came to our rescue and rejuvinated it
with the introduction of Quantum 40 (and I think Quantum 80) drives, which
regularly refused to spin up after cold boot.  At the time we (Unisys) were
about to use the same drives in a $1 Billion PC contract, and I can tell you
we didn't know whether to snicker about Apple, or sweat bullets because
we couldn't figure out why they worked so well for us.  Turns out to have
been an electrical problem (which some electrically literate Mac user will
have to explain) which we didn't suffer from because of our monster power
supplies.  We did suffer a few very nervous days investigating tho.
-- 
Thayne Forbes
thayne@unislc.slc.unisys.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: Jeffrey Luszcz <jrl2@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: A real TTY
X-Xxdate: Sat, 2 Jan 93 13: 17:10 GMT
Nntp-Posting-User: jrl2@cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 18:13:26 GMT


   You'd most likely want a 20milliamp to rs232 
converter. You'll find plans for such a device
in many ham radio books (the big hard cover SAM
book has one inside.)
   I think many of the adapters are opto-isolated
so you wont blow your equipment.
 
  hope this helps.

  -jeff luszcz
   cc2x@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: kbeer@wam.umd.edu (Ken Beer)
Subject: Bozeman's Computer Museum
Summary: need suggestions for a computer museum trip
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:06:10 GMT

   Friday December 25th, I'm flyin' out west to Bozeman Montana, home of my
girlfriend's parents and one of the two computer museums in the country.
I've been to the museum in Boston (about seven years ago I think) and am
wondering if anyone has advice for the Montana one. Is there something there
I cannot miss, or is it a rip off?  For $2.00, how bad can it be?


-- 
 				
				- |< E /\/  

 kbeer@wam.umd.edu
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: chris@132.236.236.45 (Christopher A. Wolf)
Subject: Re: CLI/GUI wars (was Re: Apple IIGS being discontinued...)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Nntp-Posting-User: tc13@cornell.edu
Reply-To: chris@alchemy.tn.cornell.edu
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Organization: none
X-Newssoftware: GRn-beta 1.16g (31.12.92) by Michael B. Smith & Mike Schwartz
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 23:03:50 GMT

> Amiga
>
> CLI: Looked pretty DOS-like to me.  AREXX helps.

If you considered the Amiga CLI DOS-like I don't think you could have
spent too much time using it.  (not a flame - just an observation)
Also, I assume we are talking about the AmigaDOS Shell not the CLI
per se.  IMO, its much more Unix-like than DOS-like - has support for
IO redirection, pipes, editable command lines and command history,
32 character mixed case filenames, ability to launch/control background
processes, etc.  none of which (to my knowledge) MS-DOS can claim.

>
> GUI: Looks ugly.  Not as intuitive or useable as it should be (haven't seen
> the latest incarnation of the OS)  Can't do much without the CLI.

If you are basing your observations on any pre-2.0 Amiga GUI than I
would agree with you.  The current 2.0 or 3.0 Amiga WorkBench environment
is 10x nicer than the old 1.3 or before versions.  In addition to adding
an entirely new 3d look the functionality has been greatly improved.
Before 2.0 I hardly ever used the Amiga WorkBench environment, now that
2.0 and 3.0 have arrived I find myself using it more and more.  Although
the Amiga WorkBench may still not be as polished as the Next or the Mac GUIs
I like it much better than the Windows or OS/2 setups I have used.

> Which leads to my final question: Which system offers the best of both worlds
> (besides Patrick Stewart's personal OS) of the GUI and CLI?

Well I like the Amiga for this reason - it is one of the few systems
that ships with both a GUI and CLI environment standard and where both
are approximately balanced in terms of functionality.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher A. Wolf   mail: chris@alchemy.tn.cornell.edu   IRC: cwolf (#amiga)

The rec.arts.sf.starwars Frequently Asked Question List is available via anon.
FTP from the Star Wars archive site at wpi.wpi.edu. "May the FAQ be with you!"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: zippy@cs.brandeis.edu (Patrick Tufts)
Subject: Re: What is so greate about the PDP 10?
Organization: Brandeis University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 05:31:40 GMT

azog@spatula.rent.com (Billy D'Augustine) writes:

>In article <BznoF1.Bwo@NeoSoft.com> peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec21.134957.15696@spatula.rent.com> azog@spatula.rent.com (Billy D'Augustine) writes:
>>
>>> (sad story, but they used to take hammers to such 
>>> wonders as PDP-8s, because they had no 'value'...).

Public schools don't give away old stuff because, gosh durn it, they
*paid* for it and they'd look pretty bad *giving* something away that
they shelled out $100k for.

>Not only is the bummer that they outright destroy the stuff (for reasons
>of money. They think that its worthless, who would want it, when a 

They destroy the stuff so that no one is encouraged to junk good
equipment and then try to pick it up cheap.

>well equiped 386 clone is much faster, and cheaper... I tried to explain
>the idea, but it never sunk thru...). A big bummer is that they refused
>to sell stuff to me, outright. Im mostly into VAXen and -11s (too 
>young to remember much else), and many times, Ive seen TU80s (which I
>need), various RAxx drives... The reason? None given, execpt that they
>have a buyer who will buy bulk. They would rather sell a lot of
>stuff for, say, $1000, then sell me a singular peice...

But if they sell to an independent junk dealer, that helps the
department "prove" that the stuff was junk.  Public schools have to
put old equipment out to bid, and it's more paperwork for them to deal
with a bunch of individuals.  Plus, they'd prefer not to sell the
stuff to an insider, because of the fraud potential I mentioned
earlier.

ObFolklore: A Large Computer Company wanted to *give* a Very Nice and
Spiffy system to the University of Connecticut.  The State forced the
University to put out a solicitation for zero-dollar bids, since
single sourcing was non-competitive.

The school still got the system, n months later.

--Pat