From: neeman@s43.csrd.uiuc.edu (Henry J. Neeman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.dance
Subject: Re: Night Club Two Step Query
Date: 14 Oct 92 19:21:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: csrd.1992Oct14.192133.26782
Distribution: na
Organization: Univ of Illinois, Center for Supercomputing R&D, Urbana, IL

Jamie Hanrahan writes:
>Rahul Dhesi writes:
>>Buddy Schwimmer teaches quick-quick-slow as the *basic dance phrase*.  But if
>>I remember correctly, the slow in his quick-quick-slow occurs count 1 of the
>>8-count music phrase.
>
>Um, that's not the way I remember him "calling" it at Dance Camp. 

I agree with Jamie.  Buddy had us start on a rock step or check step in his
routines, not on a side step.

>>So if you begin dancing on count 1, you would actually begin on the slow with
>>a side step.
>>Here's a reacp of the way I recommend it, which I believe matches Buddy
>>Schwimmer's way.
>> 
>>count:     1      2        3       4          5        6      7     8     1
>>beat:      slow            quick-  quick      slow            quick-quick slow
>>phrasing:  two             three-  and        four            one-  and   two
>> 
>>In almost every pattern in two-step, the strongest lead is on the
>>one-and-TWO, which thus should fall on the strongest beat of music, which
>>is on count 1.  For example, left turn for the man would be:
>> 
>>        check-step-forward      side- cross-side
>>        one-  and- TWO          three- and- four

Here's where I disagree with Rahul:  I don't think that the strongest accent is
on count 1 of the music, I think it's on count 3.  See below.

>You are alluding here to something else which needs to be mentioned:  In your
>first chart you're showing that a complete, er, cycle (S, Q-Q S, Q-Q) (or Q-Q
>S, Q-Q S; either way) in eight music beats, while in your second, you're doing
>it in just four.  Indeed many slow songs lend themselves to the second timing.

Nightclub two-step music -- and a lot of pop music in general -- is in 4/4 time
with a strong accent on the third quarter note of each measure, like so:

Slow/Quick:       Q    Q    S           Q    Q    S
Beat:             1    2   3_4          1    2   3_4
Dance Count:     One  and  TWO        Three and  FOUR
Step:            Rock step SIDE        Rock step SIDE
          4 |                     |
          / |     !    !    !     |     !    !    !
          4 |    *    *    o      |    *    *    o
                           <                     <

My main point here is that what you say to describe the *dance* count isn't
necessarily the same as the *music* count.  Which clears up the confusion
between Rahul's "eight beat" system and the "one and TWO" counting system.

Anyway, I guess I'm confused about Rahul's counting system.  It seems to me
that, in two-step music, you want to have the strongest step -- the side step
-- on the strongest beat, namely beat 3.  But it almost sounds like Rahul is
saying he dances the strongest step on a weaker beat, beat 1.

But that's not what you're really saying, though.  Maybe you mean that you
start dancing with a slow "prep step" on beat 3 of the previous measure, which
you're calling 1, maybe because of its strong accent.  But unlike waltz, in
two-step the strongest accent does not occur on the first beat.

						Henry Neeman
						neeman@csrd.uiuc.edu