HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gbcusg@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (I. Barnett)
Subject: Re: The compatibility story (Falcon & A1200)
Organization: UTCS Public Access
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:52:08 GMT

In article <1itc67INN4vm@life.ai.mit.edu> dmb@case.ai.mit.edu (David Baggett) writes:
>In article <1993Jan11.113722.5383@gdr.bath.ac.uk> mapmh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (M Hagger) writes:
>>I'm curious, just what do you mean by shitty programmers?  In the real 
>>world do you seriously expect game writers (ie people trying to screw the
>>maximum performance out of a machine) to worry about their program being
>>a little incompatible with future generations of chips?  
>
>Yes.  Case in point of bad programming of this ilk: STOS.  Every time
>the slightest change was made to the OS they had to send out an
>update.  You don't have to break the rules to get the best performance
>possible out of the machine.  Get things fast is one thing.  Getting
>things fast, and properly, is far better.
>
>>Particularly if they are not even aware of the these new machines etc
>>when the software is written.
>
>In some cases of course, they are victims of what you describe here.
>If the computer company rips the rug out from under the programmers,
>there's no one to blame but the company.  But Atari hasn't really done
>that; they've said  (in their own muddled way) what you could and
>couldn't rely on, and they've done pretty well at not screwing
>programmers who followed the rules.
>
>>Maybe you would prefer it if the games were a little slower or a little less
>>impressive, but I certainly wouldn't.
>
>Following the rules will NOT slow your program down.  Game Workbench
>runs fine on Falcons and TT's, and we never had those machines to
>develop on.  It was more time-consuming, in some sense, to be careful
>to follow the rules, but doing so did not affect efficiency any.
>
>Dave Baggett
>--
>dmb@ai.mit.edu           MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory                  
>ADVENTIONS: interactive fiction (text adventures) for the 90's!
>dmb@ai.mit.edu *** Compu$erve: 76440,2671 *** GEnie: ADVENTIONS

Anyone who has seen the box of GARBAGE that you get from Atari when
you become a developer should know that all developers have nothing
to start with when writing programs for the ST.  The tools (C compiler,
assembler, resource editor) you get are the worst I've ever seen on
any computer.  Game writers have no choice but to search through the
OS for tricks to use.  I happen to think STOS is a great piece of  
software.  Take the line-A fiasco that Atari has created.  All of a
sudden, Atari has said that routines we have been using for years are
illegal and we have to use the vdi routines which are S**T (hence the
existence of warp-9 and nvdi). If it wasn't for the MWC manual and the
abacus books, I would still be in the dark about programming the ST.
Developers are the most important resource a hardware vendor has and
Atari has shown their developers absoultely no respect.  No wonder
Atari's programming 'rules' are being broken by programmer.

I will now step down off my soap box...

Darren King, GBC --> gbcusg@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca
From: warwick@cs.uq.oz.au (Warwick Allison)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Linea illegal?
Date: 13 Jan 93 00:40:10 GMT
Reply-To: warwick@cs.uq.oz.au

I've heard it mentioned a few times that the LineA interface is not
Kosher programming.  Since when?  I've written heaps of programs that
use LineA, and they work even on the TT.  Is the Falcon eliminating
LineA?  I doubt it, since compatibility would drop to about 10% !!

Or is it just the UNDOCUMENTED negative LineA offset values?

--
Warwick
--
  _-_|\      warwick@cs.uq.oz.au            /Disclaimer:
 /     * <-- Computer Science Department,  /  
 \_.-._/     University of Queensland,    /   C references are NULL && void*
      v      Brisbane, Australia.        /
From: cordes@ac.dal.ca (John Cordes)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Kermit file transfers at 9600 bps
Date: 5 Jan 93 17:46:52 -0400
Summary: Problem with transfer rate using kermit at 9600
Keywords: kermit,9600
Distribution: world
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

 I'm having some problems downloading from a Vax using Kermit with my new 
9600 modem. There doesn't seem to be any way to coax the transfer (I've 
only been trying a binary file) to take place at speeds greater than around 
230 cps or so, despite the fact that the connection is at 9600 baud and the 
HS light on the modem remains on. I've tried both the Kermit in Uniterm, 
and an old Kermit Desk Accessory.

 When I use zmodem for the transfer, the rate goes up, but there are many
errors. I'm told that this is because our mainframe connections are not yet
supporting hardware flow control, so XON/XOFF has to be used. The effective
transfer rate seems to be usually around 480 cps (i.e. around 50%
efficiency). 

 Would anyone by any chance have any ideas what else I might do? Thanks.

John
From: 01mbmccabe@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: read/new
Date: 11 Jan 93 04:56:21 GMT
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

Anyone know abou the Atari SLM805 Lasre printer?  I think it may be an older
model (or something) than the SLM605.  Anyway, any particulars would be nice.


				-Matt
From: hrs@aber.ac.uk (Herbert Martin Sauro)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Falcon, Falcon who has got a Falcon
Keywords: falcon when or rather if
Date: 9 Jan 93 17:51:29 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

In article <1993Jan8.200615.25596@ryn.mro4.dec.com> oconnor@took.enet.dec.com (My name is Joe O'Connor) writes:
>Well here it is January 8th and has anybody anywhere seen a Falcon for sale 
>at a dealer.
>
>BTW: I am not some Amiga fan I just seem to remember this happening before with
>the ST Book, etc

It's fairly well advertised here in the UK, Gods knows if you can buy one
though.

Herb
-- 
/******************************************************************************
Herbert Sauro                                   e-mail: hrs@aber.ac.uk
Biological Sciences                              phone: +44 970 622353
Univesity College of Wales
From: cherborth@semprini.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (Chris Herborth)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Distribution: world
Organization: InterZONE Design
Subject: Re: Convince me to stick with Atari.
	<1iobtbINN79q@golem.wcc.govt.nz>
Reply-To: cherborth@semprini.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca
X-Software: HERMES GUS 1.04 Rev. Sep  5 1992
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 17:08:06 EST

In <1iobtbINN79q@golem.wcc.govt.nz>, Steve Wells writes:
> Who cares!?  In the end, it's the user who decides, why should anyone
> else decide, they aren't going to be the ones using the machine!  if
> you prefer another machine, sobeit, buy that machine!!

Ah, but I'd like to hear other people's opinions...  Maybe I've missed
out on something great, maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree.  There are
also a _lot_ of people around here who's "tarnished" themselves by
buying other systems...  I'd like to hear about their problems/successes
with their new systems.

The only weapon we have against salesdroids is knowledge.  You can bet
that no matter what I decide to go with, I'm going to know more about it
than the person trying to sell it to me.

-- 
-------------------========================================-------------------
Chris Herborth
cherborth@semprini.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca
From: hsp4@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Haim S. Poretsky)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: MOS Killed Me
Date: 11 Jan 93 04:56:22 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Columbia University

A friendly warning to all.  Everytime that I've used MOS Disk Utilities de-
fragmenter on my harddrive (Megafile30), something horrible has happened.  I
am sitting in front of my ST, looking at a destroyed partition.  I'm hatin'
life.  I didn't even have anything that could interfere with it.  I just
wanted to warn you all (and give a respite from the anti-Atari and anti-
other OS postings)...
From: abaddon@uk.ac.liverpool.scm.suprenum (Kevin o donovan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Good old Darek
Date: 5 Jan 93 12:26:12 GMT
Organization: Centre for Mathematical Software Research, Univ. Liverpool, UK

>>>>> On 4 Jan 93 18:17:51 GMT, m91der@tdb.uu.se (Daniel Eriksson) said:

> Well, to post a private letter to a public network isn't very mature IMHO.

To be fair, Darek actually invites him to post this message in c.s.a.s in
the last paragraph (or thereabouts) of his message.

Kev
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: mike@medsun.unige.ch (michel morris)
Subject: Spectre GCR on a TT
Keywords: 
                     H E L P !!
Organization: University of Geneva, Switzerland
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 12:32:35 GMT

I have just become the proud possessor of a TT with a large colour
monitor (Eizo) and Crazy Dots, and I have two problems (that I have
found so far) with Spectre GCR 3.0.

1 - I cannot format 720 k MFS floppies with DCFormat 3.02, for transverting 
    (I always get a disk error);

2 - I cannot get a full A3 Mac screen - the Mac does run on a 1280x800 screen,
    but it gives me 2 "squished" (and illegible) screens, side by side. In ST
    high res. emulation, there is no problem.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

Xref: sparky comp.sys.atari.st:19372 misc.forsale:34837 misc.forsale.computers:44994 ba.market.computers:6363 ba.market.misc:9812
From: landman@hal.COM (Howard Landman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st,misc.forsale,misc.forsale.computers,ba.market.computers,ba.market.misc
Subject: Re: For sale: Software, monitors (both color and mono)
Date: 8 Jan 93 02:25:25 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bang.hal.com

In article <1haglmINNg7q@agate.berkeley.edu> lchiu@ocf.berkeley.edu (Lawrence Chiu) writes:
>The software is available for $5 apiece.  I will pay shipping if you buy at
>least 2 items..
>
>Airball			MichTron

The Airball I know (written in 1987) has been made shareware, and can be
gotten almost anywhere for $3 or less.

Interesting game, by the way, especially in VGA.  Haven't seen the spellbook
yet, but I've gotten the Buddha and have at least seen (died in the same room
as) the Dragon Statue.  Lots of interesting geometry and time problems to
solve.

	Howard
From: rgoseweh@digi.lonestar.org (Roy Gosewehr)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: chkdsk
Summary: Buy Diamond Edge
Keywords: hard disks, defragment, optimize, Diamond Edge
Date: 5 Jan 93 15:35:22 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

In article <jmw.726197176@tasman> jmw@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au (John Mark Williams) writes:
>Whenever the discussion comes round to defragmenting hard disks and otherwise
>maintaining these cantankerous beasties, inevitably chkdsk from Atari is
>recommended. However as I understand it, it is only available to registered
>developers.

Buy Diamond Edge from Oregon Research Associates.  GREAT PROGRAM and
well worth the investment.  ORA provides outstanding support as well (at
least on GEnie :-).  

Note: I have no association with ORA other than being an extremely
satisfied customer of ORA and user of Diamond Back and Diamond Edge.

Roy C. Gosewehr
-- 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
| GEnie: R.C.Gosewehr | rgoseweh@digi.lonestar.org | uunet!digi!rgoseweh |
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca (John Henders)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Distribution: world
Organization:  One of these days for sure
X-News: HERMES MMAIL 1.10 Rev. Dec 15 1992
Subject: Re: TCP/IP for the ST and LAN Server
	<1992Dec31.212754.1@seb.se>
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1993 16:51:00 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In <1992Dec31.212754.1@seb.se> s19184@seb.se (Michael Evans) writes:

>The thought that struck me the other day (it did not hurt ;-) was that 
>there are many "pocket" LAN adapters available for portable PCs. These 
>plug onto the parallel port and supply a Token Ring or Ethernet 
>(Thinwire or 10BaseT) connection.

	I beleive the ST does not have all the necessary lines connected to
the parallel port to make this work. This is the reason that was given
for the lack of a ST <-> Portfolio parallel port link for the when it came
out. 

-- 

 "If Rush fans were braindead, why are there so   Bruce Bufalini
 many people posting to alt.music.rush?"              PSU
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: We have reignition
From: wells_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Date: 6 Jan 1993 02:16:08 GMT
Reply-To: wells_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Organization: Wellington City Council (Public Access), Wgtn, Nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

> There is not a English version 'L'....!!!!

I've got a 95% english version of Lharc v2.01L

It's on atari.archive.umich.edu in the Archivers directory.

It's the same as the German version - except someone has translated
it into English!  

Apart from that, it's the latest version!  It seems 100% compatible
with version 2.01L (the original version) - and has given me no problems
whatsoever!

(If it works - use it!)

The very few changes from version 2.01I to 2.01L make very little difference
to the ways I use it!  (Or most other people most probably....)
From: cherborth@semprini.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (Chris Herborth)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Organization: InterZONE Design
Subject: Re: Last time on this one
	<C0Furt.I67@news.cso.uiuc.edu>,<H.ea.7tZUy7WdW&k@semprini.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca>
	<1iobpvINN79q@golem.wcc.govt.nz>
Reply-To: cherborth@semprini.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca
X-Software: HERMES GUS 1.04 Rev. Sep  5 1992
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 17:21:02 EST

In <1iobpvINN79q@golem.wcc.govt.nz>, Steve Wells writes:
> > OS/2 2.x?  NeXTstep '486 (when it comes out)?
> 
> And what are the minimum system requirements for that!?  How much RAM
> does it Need!?

Well, from what I've heard, OS/2 and Windows both need the RAM/hard
drive space that is standard in every PC sold these days...  4M RAM, an
80M hard drive.  They both work better with more RAM/disk.

> The ST's GEM environment is on ROM chips, so is faster, requires under
> 200k of RAM (not sure about newer versions).  And doesn't NEED a Hard
> Drive to run!!  

So?  After buying a hard drive (well, four of them), I'll neer use a
computer without one again... why should I?  Everything I do is much
faster because of them.  And MANY things I do would be impossible
without them.  Can you even _load_ GNU C++ on a "standard" 1M ST?

> OS/2 and windows are HUGE, and VERY expensive, the ST's operating system
> comes built in - you don't have to pay for it!  (Okay, the price of
> the chips is included of course but you get the idea 8-)

OS/2 2.1 beta on CD-ROM for $15 apparently...  $15 in a $1500-$2000
system isn't exactly noticable...

> MS-Doze is the standard on IBM clones, and it is VERY under-productive!

Which is precisely why I'm looking into the other alternatives.  Why is
it that EVERYONE assumes DOS when you say PC?  As Dave Bagget's pointed
out, you can put any one of a HALF-DOZEN or more operating systems on a
clone...  most of them will co-exist quite nicely, allowing you to quit
OS/2 (or Windoze or whatever) and reboot in unix with X.

-- 
-------------------========================================-------------------
Chris Herborth
cherborth@semprini.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca
From: mcsdc1ph@dct.ac.uk
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Flashback on ST ?
Date: 8 Jan 93 11:55:38 GMT
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology


Hey!  Does anyone know if Flashback (the sequel to Another World(ace!))
is coming out on ST?  More importantly STE?

I was absoloutly amazed by Another world, and am very keen to see the
followup, but I don't want to have to buy an amobea just to play the
thing!

Also, Frontier (Elite II), is it going to use Ste's abilities?

Thanks.

Feekzoid
From: dmb@case.ai.mit.edu (David Baggett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: ADVOCACY: Re: Porky pig.
Date: 12 Jan 1993 05:37:28 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: case.ai.mit.edu

In article <1993Jan11.211008.13488@bsu-ucs> 01mbmccabe@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
>Could you be more specific? 
>Tell me how I make the ST market suck, please? 

I thought I was being pretty specific, but here's a *really* specific
statement for you:

	1. You don't pay for software (because you have no money).
	2. ST developers don't make any money selling you software.
	3. Consider a market consiting of a million people like you.
	4. ST developers have to leave the market.

That's why YOU are part of the problem.  This is EXACTLY what the ST
market is like now.  How many people here have already said they stick
with their Atari's beause of all the freeware and "shareware" out
there?  What does that say about a commercial developer's chances?

>"PC people pay for software in enough numbers..."  Could you say 30%
>of the PC user market is onboard because of the fantastic piracy
>network?  I'm certain it dwarfs any such network Atari may/may have
>had.  Whatever.

You're really piquing my interest here.  Why don't you let me in on
your details of the vast pirate empire for the PC?  Be sure to
cite figures for the ST market that back up your assertion.  I
want BBS numbers too -- maybe I can get some RAD NU WAREZ D00D.  :)

>In a couple of years, when I intend on investing in a new system, and
>if I still have InterNet access, I'll let you know what I decide.
>You're probably right that it won't be a 68000 machine.  It'll probably
>be along the lines of a 68040 or whatever the price/perfomance ratio
>bears out from the market.

Given this thorougly intelligent closing statement, it's clear that you
have misinterpreted my defense of the PC as an attack on the ST.  I
have no problem with the idea that you are happy with your ST (except
to know that you are living with something that is slowing you down).
The point of this all was that RIGHT NOW, IF you were buying a NEW
machine, a clone would be a very intelligent choice, simply on a
price/performance basis.  If you look at the lingering title of this
message, you'll see that it's one Atarian's misguided assertion that
"PC's are bad because all the software is really huge." When I pointed
out that it's not that simple, you kicked into defensive mode and
started telling my why your ST was a wise purchase when you bought it
years ago.  I have no argument with that.  My ST was a wise purchase 7
years ago too.  (A clone would have been a wiser one, but I of course
had no way of knowing things would work out as they have.)

Dave Baggett
--
dmb@ai.mit.edu           MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory                  
ADVENTIONS: interactive fiction (text adventures) for the 90's!
dmb@ai.mit.edu *** Compu$erve: 76440,2671 *** GEnie: ADVENTIONS
From: marc@targon.UUCP (Marc Dierikx)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Atari laser...old
Date: 12 Jan 93 07:01:00 GMT
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf Infosyst.,PO 29, 4130 EA Vianen, Netherlands.

In article <1993Jan11.203928.13484@bsu-ucs> 01mbmccabe@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
>Yep.   By Diablo and FX80 _emulator_, do you mean what is called a driver on
>WordPerfect, and other programs?  Or is there some sort of emulator cartridge
>like for the HP DeskJet?
>
>				-Matt


Well it's not a cartridge. The diablo emulator is just a program you
run before printing (or at startup). Any text output is redirected to
the dma bus. It does also do bitmaps however (ghostscript and tex
use this for example). I don't think this was a diablo feature :-)

The fx80 emulator is an accessory which is a bit smarter, but it uses
a huge amount of memory (configurable, but for bitmaps you need at least
about 1-1.5 meg) immediately after startup, while the diablo
emulator just needs 1 meg when you print something.

Marc
From: mho@cs.tu-berlin.de (Michael Hopp)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: What terminal program should I use to call a UNIX machine from my ST
Date: 12 Jan 1993 15:37:34 GMT
Organization: Techn. University of Berlin, Germany
NNTP-Posting-Host: troll.cs.tu-berlin.de
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

UW, UW, UW, UW, UW, UW !!!!

I wonder, why uw hasn't been mentioned before.
It has up to 6 independent terminal gem windows whith various fonts
and sizes at once over one connection line, mouse copy/paste, window
selecting and cycling whith keyboard commands, etc.

Since I've tried it, I wouldn't want to work on a single-window
terminal prg anymore!

Of course, it also has it's drawbacks:

-  uw - server has to be present on the unix host
-  only ad31 - terminal emulation supported
-  only kermit data-transfer, but running in the background concurrently
   whith the terminal windows

the uw - package can be found on most major atari ftp sites.

michael
--

mho@cs.tu-berlin.de         - A thing like this can warp his mind for life -
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: healy@nosc.mil (Mike Healy)
Subject: Re: We have reignition
Organization: Naval Ocean Systems Center, San Diego
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:52:34 GMT

In article <2414372@under.mind.ORG> only_bbs!King_Midas@under.mind.ORG writes:
>  Mike Healy: 
>  
> Although not really on topic with your message, I just thought I'd 
>point out that 2.01L is the newest version (for some months now) of 
                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                             a LONG time for a version
											 of lharc, I guess :-)
											 Are you sure it's still
											 the newest? :-)
>Quester's LHArc. 
>
>--
>via Fortress Gateway at uumind.mind.ORG

I'd like to thank you and the others who have told me this. Can I
please subscribe to the mailing list informing people of the latest 
lharc version (I'm sure it must be updated daily) :-)

All I know is that if I were uploading some software that I wanted
spread around, I would choose the most stable archiver so that the
most people would be able to uncompress it. I'm getting really
sick of the lharc moving target.

Mike Healy
healy@nosc.mil
From: wells_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Steve Wells)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Last time on this one
Date: 10 Jan 1993 05:22:07 GMT
Organization: Wellington City Council (Public Access), Wgtn, Nz
Reply-To: wells_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

> > This, of course, doesn't change the fact that PC operating systems are
> > crap.  Use that as your argument to promote the ST.
> 
> OS/2 2.x?  NeXTstep '486 (when it comes out)?

And what are the minimum system requirements for that!?  How much RAM
does it Need!?

The ST's GEM environment is on ROM chips, so is faster, requires under
200k of RAM (not sure about newer versions).  And doesn't NEED a Hard
Drive to run!!  

The Basic ST, which will run Quite happily on a single-tasking, WIMPS
environment, only has 512k of RAM, a 720k Floppy, and NO Hard-Drive.
It works, and you still have around 350k of RAM free!!

OS/2 and windows are HUGE, and VERY expensive, the ST's operating system
comes built in - you don't have to pay for it!  (Okay, the price of
the chips is included of course but you get the idea 8-)


MS-Doze is the standard on IBM clones, and it is VERY under-productive!


 =============================================================================
 | O O    Computers:  Not just machines, they're a way of  |       |||       |
 |  o     life.  Your computer *IS* your religion!         |       ||| TARI  |
 | \_/    Steve Wells - Wellington, New Zealand.           |      / | \      |
 =========================WELLS_S@KOSMOS.WCC.GOVT.NZ==========================

Xref: sparky comp.sys.atari.st:19403 comp.sys.atari.st.tech:6546