HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: saarinen@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Sirpa Saarinen)
Subject: Re: Hillary picks secretary of HHS
Organization: UIUC Center for Supercomputing Research and Development
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 16:42:15 GMT

ostrer@icbr.ufl.edu writes:




>It comes as disapointment to many of us in the health care community that
>Donna Shalala was named secretary of Health and Human Services in the
>Clintons' Adminastration.  She is a member of Hillary Clinton's inner
>circle of Baby Boomer activitist, known as one of the original founders
>of the "POLITICAL CORCTNESS" movement.  She is a "rights" liberal who
>believes in a pervasive securing OUTCOME for special interest groups.
			 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So, you mean here that during the last 12 years the Reagan-Bush people
never "secured any outcome for special interest groups"? I thought that
the 80'ties was _the_ decade of special interest groups. Where have you been
lately? Maybe Clinton has chosen a person who does not secure his/her
own special bank account.

>The appointment of the assistant secretary of HHS, who oversees NIH, FDA,
>and CDC, is now very precarious.

I think that these institutions need some fresh air and maybe DS can get it
there.

>This reflect a strong role of Hillary Clinton in the White House.
>Hillary appearently is also going to pick the Attorney General.

I find picking an independently working Attorney General better than picking a
White House astrologer, who would be putting his/her nose into daily matters
of the White House. BTW, give me break, you don't seem to believe that *maybe*
Bill thinks the way Hillary does, and her "choice" might (just might) overlap
with Bill's. Maybe Bill Clinton can think independently, which cannot be said
of many previous presidents (maybe you have looked too much up to Reagan and 
Bush and think then that a president is influenced by dogs/wives/astrologers). 
Did Millie pick Dan Quale? 

>After Sen Mitchell picked Bentson, and DICK Gephart pick Penatta, we
>are left wondering if Slick Willie will show any leadership.

I wonder why Bill Clinton now sits in Little Rock listening to all those
people who have something to say about the economy. If that is not leadership,
then what is? Neither Reagan nor Bush ever thought that such a conference
was necessary. As far as I understand, Bush never showed any leadership 
in domestic matters - USA was just a country which paid his paycheck. 

Sirpa Saarinen
saarinen@csrd.uiuc.edu
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:64548 ca.politics:10394 ba.politics:7771
From: stephen@orchid.UCSC.EDU (x4604 (Hauskins))
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics,ba.politics
Subject: Intellectual Dishonesty at its best. "HIV-infected molest suspect outrages town"
Date: 16 Dec 1992 22:22:55 GMT
Organization: Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: orchid.ucsc.edu

>>> In article <13596@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>># 
>>Nope.  As the recent surveys done in France and Britain demonstate,
>>the percentage of males who have had ANY homosexual contacts during
>>a lifetime is <10%.
>
>

You see - Mr. Cramer is being intellectually dishonest, by attempting
to take the results of a few limited surveys and then conclude that
the gay population is less than 4 or 5 percent.  None of these surveys
have relevance except for the same group that was studied.  And on 
top of that they were done in two particular countries.

I believe it is impossible to get any close to accurate, giving the
social climate of the acceptance or at least toleration of gay people.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:64803 alt.rush-limbaugh:11887
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Pat Robertson's bigoted remarks at the convention...
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 17:13:46 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac
Keywords: hate

In article <BzEH95.ILn@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> ivaliote@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Lotus ) writes:

>dmeier@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Douglas Meier) writes:
>>>Heh.  He he.  Yeah.  I'll admit one thing; Gritz is patriotic.  He also
>>>thinks he is right.  He isn't, of course, having at least *acted* like a
>>>biggot in public.

>>Please document.

>Well, I didn't read it in the American Journal of Political Science.  I just
>saw a tape and some campaign stuff distributed by his campaign here at the U of
>Illinois.  I wasn't stating that he IS a biggot.  I just feel he acted like one.

Gritz is an interesting study. Although the odd Christian Identity-type
phrase may show up in his speeches ("The New ZION"), for the most part he
walks a pretty straight line verbally, and offers no reason to call him
either a fascist or a bigot.

If that were the whole story, it would be easy to fit the man into a label.
His political associates, however, rather muddy the waters, as many of them
are avowed racial supremecists, neo-nazis, and the like; in addition, he seems
to have close personal ties with Christian Identity leadership.

I've been collecting information about Gritz here on the net, and have tried
to save the relevant articles on both sides of the fence (although I tend to
lend more weight to his associations than his public utterances), and these
files are readily available via listserv@oneb.almanac.bc.ca. To obtain a
complete list, send the commands "index" and "help get" to listserv.



-- 
The Old Frog's Almanac - Public Access UseNet for Central Vancouver Island
     (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) SCO XENIX 2.3.2 GT 
 Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. Just south of Tupperware Central...  
                 Information is power - get connected
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:64592 alt.conspiracy:13246
From: b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (General Boycott)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Death of America
Summary: C of D, by the late John Kennedy Toole, NY, Grove Press, 1980
Keywords: p. 46
Date: 17 Dec 92 02:24:00 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

>garrett@Ingres.COM (REACH OUT AND GREP SOMEONE) writes...

>>All right. You read "Confederacy of Dunces" once too many times then.
>>> 
>>-Garrett

[I responded...]
>Haven't run across it, but next time I'm strolling through the library 
>I'll have a look see.  (Which may then be once too many.)

And now I have an excerpt, you be the judge.

	"With the breakdown of the Medieval system, the
	gods of Chaos, Lunacy, and Bad Taste gained 
	ascendancy." Ignatius was writing in one of his
	Big Chief tablets.

	After a period in which the western world had 
	enjoyed order, tranquility, unity, and oneness
	with its True God and Trinity, there appeared
	winds of change which spelled evil days ahead.
	An ill wind blows no one good. The luminous years
	of Abelard, Thomas a Becket, and Everyman dimmed
	into dross; Fortuna's wheel had turned on humanity,
	crushing it collarbone, smashing its skull, twist-
	ing its torso, puncturing its pelvis, sorrowing
	its soul. Having once been so high, humanity fell
	so low. What had once been dedicated to the soul
	was now dedicated to the sale.

   "That is rather fine," Ignatius said to himself and
   continued his hurried writing. 
	
	Merchants and charlatans gained control of Europe,
	calling their insidious gospel "The Enlightenment."
	The day of the locust was at hand, but from the ashes
	of humanity there arose no Phoenix. The humble and
	pious peasant, Piers Plowman, went to town to sell 
	his children to the lords of the New Order. For pur-
	poses that we may call questionable at best. 

   (See Reilly, Ignatius J., _Blood on Their Hands: The Crime of 
   it All_, A study of some selected abuses in sixteenth century
   Europe, a Monograph, 2 pages, 1950, rare book room, left 
   corridor, third floor, Howard-Tilton Memorial Library, Tulane
   University, New Orleans 18, Louisiane. Note: I mailed this 
   singular monograph to the library as a gift; however, I am
   not really certain that it was ever accepted. It may well have
   been thrown out because it was only written in pencil on tab-
   let paper.)

	The gyre had widened; The Great Chain of Being had snapped
	like so many paperclips strung together by some drooling
	idiot; death, destruction, anarchy, progress, ambition,
	and self improvement were to be Pier's new fate. And a
	vicious fate it was to be: now he was faced with the 
	perversion of having to GO TO WORK.	
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas)
Subject: Re: The collapse of communism and the role of the U.S.
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:33:12 GMT

In article <1953@spam.ua.oz> jaskew@spam.ua.oz (Joseph Askew) writes:
>In article <1992Dec3.190609.3276@llyene.jpl.nasa.gov> julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas) writes:
>
>>I think it might be better to say the western ideology won the
>>Cold War.  The West was not the only one fighting against Communism.
>>Yeltsin and his people were working from the inside to try to destroy
>>it for quite some time.
>
>Since when was Yeltsin working from the inside to destroy Communism? Since
>1977? Since 1965?
>The truth is he was a life long Communist Apparatchik who deserted the CPSU
>like a rat from a sinking ship and has done very well for himself since. But
>only after the Collapse was obvious. 

Sorry, but wrong.  Yeltsin was never a "typical" apparatchik.  Even
as party boss in Sverdlosk he was considered radical for meeting
with people and getting their opinions.  He was considered a very 
liberal reformer when Gorbachev brought him to Moscow in 1986.  He 
broke party line in 1987 by accusing Gorbachev of not carrying through 
on reforms fast enough.  In 1989 he appealed to the people and was 
elected to the Congress of People's Deputies even though Gorbachev 
fought hard to keep him out.  People around him at this time thought 
he sounded and acted more like a dissident than a deputy -- hardly 
"typical apparatchik" material. He was the first to remove Lenin's 
picture in his office and would draw visitors' attentions to the nail.  
He led a push to recognise Russia as separate from the Soviet Union.  
He was the second (his son-in-law the first) to quit the Communist party 
(which wasn't sinking so much then and no rats were leaving then anyway).  
He called for German re-unity far earlier than Gorbachev did.  After
being elected president of the Russian parliment in 1990 he pushed
for a 500 day plan to turn the economy into a free market (which
Gorbachev failed to use).  He led the leaders of the other republics
in fights for more power for the republics at the expense of the
Soviet Union.  

>And exactly who are 'his people'? All
>those refuseniks? dissenters? What does it take to be included as one of 'his
>people'?

His aides, advisors, and deputies aligned with him:  Sergei Stankevich, 
Gleb Yakunin, Gennady Burbulis, and others whose names I can't remember/
know how to spell are 'his people'.  And yes, many of them were former 
dissenters.  None of them care much for the Communist system.

Julie
DISCLAIMER:  All opinions here belong to my cat and no one else
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.bush
From: dnm9@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (David Neal Messina)
Subject: Re: Democrat == Loony Left??? (was Re: Christiani
Reply-To: dnm9@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (David Neal Messina)
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 10:31:36 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.180657.7598@kadsma.kodak.com> pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek) writes:
>No, the government space program has no business whatsoever using
>the space shuttle to put commercial satellites into orbit (or failing


Incidentally, the companies whose satellites are launched do pay the
gov to do it--one of the ways a part of the program's cost is defrayed.



As for commercial use of a space station...use that 12-1/2 mile tether
to sell bungee-jumps from orbit.  

<great for livening up state fairs when people get sick of hog-calling.>


Hoping the elevator won't be out of service when it's my turn,


David
dnm9@columbia.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: miballar@leland.Stanford.EDU (Michael Ballard)
Subject: Re: Health insurance stuff
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 23:03:24 GMT

Supply and demand seems to work to bring down the price of most 
commodities.  "We" could either lower the demand by restricting who
could be eligible or "we" could increase the supply of health care.
For example, "we" could stop kow towing to the guild known as the 
AMA and demand that more bright individuals be admitted to medical
school and while "we're" at it, "we" could ask our brand new President
to stop building items like the B2 bomber and start funding the 
construction of more and more medical schools, until we come to a time
when the supply of doctors, nurses etc. is increased to the point 
where medical care is affordable for your average Jane and Joe.

-- 
Complain yes; but organize.
Become a Wobbly.
Phone (415)863-WOBS

Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:63927 ca.politics:10294 ba.politics:7686 misc.legal:21276
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics,ba.politics,misc.legal
Subject: Re: Gay Child Molesters (Re: Youth Info Needed)
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:48:17 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Dec10.160610.19193@udel.edu>, carroll@hercules.cis.udel.edu (Mark C. Carroll) writes:
> In article <13514@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
# #Every wonder why I'm a little suspicious of the so-called "gay youth
# #outreach" programs?  Maybe it's postings like the one below, from
# #soc.motss.  Look who is heavily interested in "helping" those poor
# #kids that don't yet "know" they are gay:
# 
# First of all, I don't see _anything_ wrong with the posting. For a
# child growing up in a country where anti-gay attitudes are so powerful
# nand so prevalent, I think that it's a very good thing that a gay
# teenager, trying to come to terms with who s/he is, can find someone
# sympathetic to talk to.

Yes, someone to talk to, and to persuade a confused, hormonally
driven teenaged boy to engage in sex with an adult.  If there were
not so many scum like Roy Radow or NAMBLA clearly very interested
in promoting such programs, I might not be so cynical.

# Second, I don't think that there is _any_ grounds for suspicion
# against such an organization. There are dozens upon dozens of support
# groups for every imaginable kind of person, from christian youth
# groups, to groups for abused children, and so on. Why is a gay group
# automatically bad? Why can't gay teenagers have a sympathetic group of
# peers?

Because it's clear that people like Roy Radow or NAMBLA is VERY
interested in such programs.  Does that make you even a teeny
bit suspicious?

# The guy who replied to the post was a member of nambla. But the groups
# that he gave references to are _not_ nambla! They are support groups,
# whose numbers he found *in the phone book*! Why are they automatically
# as bad as nambla?
# 
# || Mark Craig Carroll: <MC#     || "I'm not dumb, 

Why won't the gay community tell NAMBLA where to go?

-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
C++ is to C, as lung cancer is to lung.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.elections,alt.rush-limbaugh
From: zeke@fasttech.com (Bohdan Tashchuk)
Subject: Re: Gary Trudeau
Organization: Fast Technology
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 09:20:33 GMT

In <bill.723844760@castor> bill@cognet.ucla.edu (William M. Eldridge) writes:
>zeke@fasttech.com (Bohdan Tashchuk) writes:

>>But they can't possibly compare to the many vicious, vitriolic attacks he has
>>made

>Give me one example where Trudeau went too far.

I unfortunately don't have the worst cartoon in front of me, so I'll recall it
as best as I can. It was a Sunday cartoon. Trudeau was railing about some
alleged criminal activity or other, I don't recall exactly what. He went on
and on for panel after panel. Which was fine.

The character saying this was the guy who does the radio shows. (Zonker?)
Anyway, in the last few panels Zonker says something like this:

	Of course only a court can determine guilt or innocence.

	But, to this reporter at least, he's GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY.

There's nothing wrong with SUGGESTING things like this. In fact, doing it
cleverly is what good political satire is all about. But this ending was
way over the line.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.current-events.somalia,alt.politics.bush,alt.president.clinton
From: smithmc@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Lost Boy)
Subject: WAR IN BOSNIA!!!!
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:02:14 GMT

According to the Thursday December 17, 1992 _Chicago Tribune_, George
Bush and company has authorized United States involvement in Bosnia.

This is probably the biggest foreign-policy mistake we could make. Bosnia
is an extremely dangerous region and sending US troops can only result in
a great deal of American bloodshed. 

I and others are organizing resistance to this action on George Bush's part,
on the following grounds:

1) The millitary has legitimate uses, such as self defense (as in WWII) and
the protection of peaceful initiatives (such as in Somalia). To send the 
millitary into Bosnia in order to stop two well-armed and well-entrenched
factions from fighting each other is NOT an act of self defense or the 
protection of peaceful initiatives.

2) The United States has a great deal to lose in terms of manpower, stature,
money and resources in Bosnia, a region which is the most analogous to Veitnam
of all the regions we have been involved in since 1975.

3) United States involvement in an area that has been historically explosive
(remember World War One?) can only feed tensions in the region and stir Anti-
American sentiment in the area. 

In other words, we are opposed to this action on the grounds that it is a
generally bad idea. 

Those who are interested in aiding us in urging President Bush and President
Elect Clinton to seek a more reasonable, far less dangerous solution to this
crisis, please email me at smithmc@mentor.cc.purdue.edu. I will probably not
be able to respond for a while, as I will be away for Christmas break so I
can organize things in Chicago. Once I get back I will contact everyone who
responds and provide them with information on who to contact and what measures
are being taken. I will also send a copy of a petition which is going around
to everyone who is interested. This petition is a 15 line document written in
vi which you may modify as you like.

In the meantime, we should all pray for peace in Bosnia before it becomes
more of a mess than before.

Merry Christmas
Peace on Earth and Mercy Mild

Lost Boy
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.drugs,sci.econ
From: max@hilbert.cyprs.rain.com (Max Webb)
Subject: Re: How to Prevent AIDS
Organization: Cypress Semiconductor Northwest, Beaverton Oregon
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:22:14 GMT

In article <Dec.9.07.36.20.1992.26805@romulus.rutgers.edu> kaldis@romulus.rutgers.edu (Theodore A. Kaldis) writes:
>Oversight, I guess.  But the above statement is nevertheless sound.
>The problem is that homosexuals like to pretend that the acts which
>they engage in (some of which are _FELONIES_ in a number os states)
>also in some way represent "sex".
>-- 
>The views expressed herein are my   ||  Theodore A. Kaldis
>my own only.  Do you seriously      ||  kaldis@remus.rutgers.edu
>believe that a major university as  ||  {...}!rutgers!remus.rutgers.edu!kaldis
>this would hold such views???       ||


While in a thread next door, Walter Smith writes:

>If there have been (and continue to be) cases of people losing their job just 
>for being gay, it would be beneficial to the gay-rights movement to publicize
>them in a clear manner.  At this point, a stronger case can be made for 
>gay-rights intruding on the rights of others; moreso than the rights of gay
>people being violated in the workplace.  (or housing, etc) 

Are you listening, Walter? Think being convicted of a felony, and going to
prison might cost you your job?

	Max G. Webb
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.rush-limbaugh
From: dmeier@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Douglas Meier)
Subject: Re: Pat Robertson's bigoted remarks at the convention...
Keywords: hate
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:01:07 GMT

In article <Bz9Br8.4rv@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> ivaliote@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Lotus ) writes:
>dmeier@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Douglas Meier) writes:
>>>Who is Bo Gritz and what has he to do with this?
>>>
>>Bo Gritz is a true American patriot who is being denounced as a fascist by
>>the Free Shit Brigades (tm) before his message of personal responsibility
>>and self reliance can catch on.  I sincerely hopes he weathers the storm.
>
>Heh.  He he.  Yeah.  I'll admit one thing; Gritz is patriotic.  He also
>thinks he is right.  He isn't, of course, having at least *acted* like a
>biggot in public.

Please document.
-- 
Douglas C. Meier		|  I have a trig midterm tomorrow and I'm
Northwestern University, ACNS 	|  being chased by Guido the killer pimp.
This University is too Commie-	|  -Miles, from "Risky Business"
Lib Pinko to have these views.	|  dmeier@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: sawyer@utahep.uta.edu (Lee Sawyer)
Subject: Re: Space program necessary
Summary: What the hell is this doing here?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Texas at Arlington High Energy Physics Group
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:55:00 GMT

>In article <17DEC199215301538@zeus.tamu.edu> srf6200@zeus.tamu.edu (Steven Rush Fennell) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec17.172656.27110@technology.com>, judy@technology.com (Judy McMillin) writes...
>>> 	Can any of you think of any moral or philosophical justification
>>>	for using huge amounts of taxpayer money to fund the "space
>>>	program" at all?  Not counting, of course, it provides high-
>>>	pay, high-tech jobs for a bunch of us.
>>> 
>>>		Judy
>>> 
>>
>>Well, we can all sit here on Earth and stagnate I guess.  I would say that 
>>without some edge of society, or frontier, we will begin to wallow in our own 
>>filth (unless we turn to zero pop. growth).  How much more is there to learn 
>>on this planet?  Do we abandon technology and turn inwards as a species?  I 
>>prefer to stay with the cutting edge...even if it means paying a few dollars 
>>more in taxes.  And BTW, the space program consumes about 1% of the federal 
>>budget - it was around 4% I believe in the '60s.  Not exactly what I would 
>>call a huge amount of money relatively speaking, compared to welfare or 
>>defense. 
>>[deletions]
>>Steve Fennell
>>srf6200@zeus.tamu.edu

 Once again, with feeling - it is entitlements, defense, and debt service
- not R/D or the space program or agricultural supports or... - that is 
backrupting us.

 Research, even in the most esoteric disciplines, has the potential of
payback in dollars and the guarantee of payback in an increase of mankind's
understanding of the world in which we live. 

       ================                           
         Lee Sawyer                                  

         Dept of Physics                          
         Univ. of Texas                            
               at Arlington                        

Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:64680 ca.politics:10413 ba.politics:7789 misc.legal:21445 soc.motss:52830