HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com 512-838-2806)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: School Choice:  It May Bring Regulation
Date: 16 Nov 92 22:20:18 GMT
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin


                       =====  FOCUS  =====

*9   SCHOOL CHOICE:  CONSERVATIVES WORRY IT MAY BRING REGULATION
     Many conservatives "have begun to sour on the idea" of
school choice, writes John Miller in a NEW REPUBLIC editorial.
Miller:  "Patrick Buchanan, Charles Murray, and even the Heritage
Foundation have all become increasingly skeptical of school
choice."
     Miller writes that the "conservative dissenters" turn the
liberal argument -- that choice "would boost private schools at
the expense of public ones" -- on its head.  Conservatives oppose
choice because they fear it would "make private schools more like
public ones," Miller says.  Llewellyn Rockwell, president of the
Ala.-based Ludwig von Mises Institute said:  "What we're looking
at is the deprivatization of private schools."
     "The fear is that once federal voucher funds started flowing
into private schools, the government would have a foot in the
door," according to Miller.
     Charles Murray, author of "Common Ground" and "In Pursuit:
Of Happiness and Good Government" said:  "I used to think choice
was a great idea, and I still support the concept.  But I'm
beginning to wonder whether voucher programs would invite the
kinds of regulations that have crippled our public schools."  And
according to Chester Finn, a former asst. ed sec:  "There's no
doubt in my mind that there will be some new regulations with
voucher plans."
     Calif. conservatives are working to put a private school
choice initiative on the ballot to circumvent such government
intervention, according to Miller.  He writes that under the
amendment "government regulations could be enacted only with the
approval of three-quarters of the state's legislators, or a two-
thirds vote of a local governing body followed by a majority vote
of the state's registered voters."
     Former Ed Sec William Bennett said the amendment is
"definitely the right way to go." (Week of 11/30)

-- 
--
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |        Austin, TX
 There'll be too many elderly in 30 years for your kids to afford all the FICA.
From: curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com 512-838-2806)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Teacher Merit-pay Screws Poor Communities
Date: 20 Nov 92 21:40:13 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin



                    =====  FRONTLINES  =====

*3   MERIT-PAY TEACHERS:  BUT ONLY FOR THE FEW
     Some parents in Fairfax County, Va., say the merit-pay
teacher program shortchanges less prosperous communities
(multi.).  They voiced their concerns after a new report found
many schools in poorer areas have fewer than 10% merit-pay
teachers, while wealthy schools have up to 40%, writes the WASH.
TIMES (Koklanaris).
     Supt. Robert Spillane Monday gave the Fairfax County School
Board a list of the number of merit-pay teachers in each of the
county's schools.  Spillane, the architect of merit-pay in the
state, said many variables determine the number of merit-pay
teachers per school including the age of the school and the
attitude of its faculty and principle, according to the TIMES.
     The school board is in the process of re-evaluating the
merit-pay system introduced by Spillane in 1987 (Comiteau,
FAIRFAX JOURNAL).  Budget constraints caused the board last year
to suspend merit pay.
     Kelly Peaks Horner, president of the Fairfax Education
Association said school officials "must determine" whether
teachers in schools with a diverse student body shy away from
applying for merit pay because of student outcome, writes the
paper.
     The merit-pay disparities, according to Spillane, show "the
greatest argument for bringing back" merit pay.  "We need to have
more [merit-pay teachers] and we need to have them in our poorer
areas," he said.  But he added he would never force any teacher
to go to a particular school to have merit-pay teachers in all
schools in the county, writes the TIMES.
     Spillane:  "To assign a great teacher to a school or an
environment that he or she doesn't want to go to is not going to
help the teacher, the school or the child." (11/19)


-- 
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |        Austin, TX
          - Fire public school administrators.  Hire more teachers. -
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: YOU OWE ME FREE HEALTHCARE!
Date: 18 Nov 92 13:54:01 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Distribution: tx
Organization: Los Tejanos SCUBA Club and Beer Joint, Austin, Tejas

In article <1992Nov17.165827.39615@watson.ibm.com> johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000) writes:
>David L. Cathey (davidc@montagar.com) wrote:
>:                          When it comes to polititians, I tend to be a cynic,
>: whereas you seem to more than willing to take Clinton at his word.
>
>Of course.  Just like we took Bush at his word when he said "no new taxes".
>It's one thing to criticize somebody for breaking a promise.  It's quite 
>another to criticize somebody because you THINK he will break a promise.
>We'll find out soon enough.

Clinton has already insured that he will break several of his promises
by making contradictory ones.  He promised a middle class tax cut.  Then
he said there would have to be a small middle class tax hike to pay for
his new programs.  Which ever one you believe, the other must be a lie.
-- 
John F. Haugh II                  [  TSAKC  ] !'s: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151           [ DoF #17 ]        @'s: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: YOU OWE ME FREE HEALTHCARE!
Date: 18 Nov 92 14:23:22 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <BxvM36.5p6@NeoSoft.com> hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen) writes:

>In article <1992Nov15.223808.28181@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>> Pardon me, but I don't believe the plan Clinton is proposing falls
>> under the term 'socialized medicine' (unless they redefined
>> 'socialized' when I wasn't paying attention ;-)).
> 
>What do you call it when the government starts deciding how
>much people can charge for health care?

That depends on just who is paying the bills.

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
From: curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com 512-838-2806)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: SanFran give $ to education groups
Date: 17 Nov 92 19:28:59 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin


                       =====  FOCUS  =====

*13  CALIFORNIA'S CHILDREN'S AMENDMENT:  S.F. PROVIDES FUNDS
     Forty community-based organizations that serve young people
are the beneficiaries of $3.1M from the city of San Francisco
(Ganahl, S.F. EXAMINER).  The funds are tied to last year's
Proposition J, the Children's Amendment, which "provides for the
maintenance and expansion of services for children in four
primary areas during a 10-year period," reports the paper.
       The primary areas are:  child care, health and social
services, job readiness, recreation, delinquency prevention and
education, according to the EXAMINER.
     The grants include:  an expansion of the S.F. Unified School
District's Children Centers for latchkey children; $400,000 for
health education and screening for low-income children; $470,000
to increase access to jobs for at-risk youths; and a "special
needs" fund to provide money to gay and lesbian youth (11/17).

-- 
--
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |        Austin, TX
- FICA isn't a retirement plan. Money's spent. It'll be gone when you need it.-
From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: CHOICE: DEBATE BASED ON COMPETING PHILOSOPHIES
Date: 20 Nov 92 00:16:21 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

Dr. Michael Reed writes

   [Fred McCall's post about the cost of private vs. public schools
    deleted. That was refuted that in another posting]

>How many private schools have to offer programs for the handicapped,
>the retarded, the learning disabled, the emotionally disturbed?  My
>guess is that if those expensive programs were eliminated from the
>public school budgets you would find the cost per student in the
>public schools much closer to that of the average private school.


Important point.  Some of the best education for handicapped children and adults
is provided by Camphill, Kimberton Farms, and related organizations, and they
don't take a penny of taxes.  I think the same principle applies to schools for
the handicapped as for regular students.  The services would be there, they would
be as good or much better, and they would be cheaper.  And those same services
that the public schools continue to provide would get better and cheaper too.

If you have ever talked to people who work with the handicapped the one thing
that impresses most is that they are so strongly motivated by love for the
children in everything they do, even moreso than with normal children.  Add
to this powerful formula the ingredient of freedom and you will see the most
wonderful things happen.  

I think that with all the talk about fee markets in this debate this element of 
what really motivates a teacher is largely overlooked.  Of all professions, 
teaching is one to which perhaps more than any other its practitioners are drawn
by the love of what they do and of those they are doing it for.  Go to any
private school, religious or otherwise, and almost invariably that is what you
will see, even where the teachers are hardly making a living at it.  And go
to a public school where the teachers have long been burned out by the nastiness
above and around them, and you will find someone who once had the same high
motivation and is now just trying to survive (I'm not characterizing all public
schools this way, but I have heard enough from personal contact to know that
it is a real problem).  The natural companion to this loving motivation is an
atmosphere of freedom, and that is what choice can provide.

We would have to look more closely at your claim about the cost of teaching the
handicapped and the learning disabled.  I find it hard to believe that it nearly
doubles the cost of education. If it does there is something wrong. Any choice
based solution would have to cover this, and it is good you bring it up.  Let's 
look at the details. I'm interested.

Cordially,
Gerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Subject: Re: Football Failures at Bowie Force end of Season
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 01:20:04 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstations and Systems, Austin, TX
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

David L. Cathey (davidc@montagar.com) wrote:
: > OK, how about if we also stop giving freeloaders free math and science programs?
: 
: 	But they are not freeloading, since they are making an effort to
: pass all classes enrolled.

Sure they are.  I don't like math and science, so I'm going to call people who
want to learn math and science freeloaders.  That's what you're doing with
people who want to learn football.

: The school is upholding its end of the "contract"
: by providing classes to those the doing work in them.  You defend the concept
: of certain students (namely Football players) should have exceptions to
: this (Elitist).

Not just football players.  I don't think ANY student should take calculus
if he doesn't want to learn calculus.

:                                                      High School football isn't
: competitive enough to get you in the door.  You need to be proven under more
: challenging conditions: College Football.  Too bad you won't make the
: entrance requirements.

Like I said, the system is rigged.  There's NOTHING in a college curriculum that
a football player needs to play football better, unless he can major in
football.

: 	Well, you appearently don't think that the are intelligent enough to
: do anything besides play football.

Sure I do.  I think they're intelligent enough to do whatever they want to do.
Of course sometimes they listen to naysayers who tell them that their "odds"
are terrible.

: It they can't get a High School diploma,
: why should I think they (still minors, remember) can make intelligent choices
: about the rest of their lives?

I don't really care WHAT you think they can do.  What matters is what THEY
think they can do.

: 	No, you're there so you can keep on playing Flight Simulator on
: your PS/2.  At least as much as you can get away with.  The only difference
: is the games of choice.

Sorry.  I don't have a PS/2 OR Flight Simulator, but nice try.

--
John Iacoletti       IBM AWS Austin       Internet: johniac@austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
    "Egad, a base tone denotes a bad age" -- TMBG   "I Palindrome I"
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Subject: Re: Bush Vetoes Stupid Education Reform Bill
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 00:25:07 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstations and Systems, Austin, TX
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

John F. Haugh II (jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org) wrote:
: It doesn't matter if it was his own time.  If the teacher could spend the
: time reading any other material that can be legally owned, he should be
: able to spend it reading the bible.

Yes it does matter.  His employer can dictate what he can and cannot do as
a condition of employment.

--
John Iacoletti       IBM AWS Austin       Internet: johniac@austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
    "Egad, a base tone denotes a bad age" -- TMBG   "I Palindrome I"
From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: YOU OWE ME FREE HEALTHCARE!
Date: 22 Nov 92 09:46:36 CDT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Montagar Software Concepts, Plano TX

In article <1992Nov20.141240.16399@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
> Now, examine the Clinton plan and get back to me.  You will note that
> among the things it is NOT are 'socialized medicine' and a 'command
> economy for medical care'.

	But why is all this needed?  Why do we need another entitlement
program for this?  Don't we have enough of them that don't work or have
been otherwised abused?

	There are good places to get insurance.  I reduced my insurance costs
recently by over 50% by switching to a different carrier (wish I'd done it
sooner), since the company I was with was going to raise it even more!  Like
anything else, you should take some personal responibility to search out that
program that works for you that you can afford.  Why does it have to be given
to you?

	But the rhetoric is "not everyone is insured".  Well, so what?  Where
does it say that everyone must have insurance?  Hell, I've spend more in the
last year or two on insurance that I'd EVER would have spent on medical bills.
That includes dentist, optometrist, and even two trips to the emergency room
due to a couple of bike crashes.  Most of the time, I pay my insurance bill
and still have to pay medical bills, since I didn't spend enough to make the
deductible.

	If you really want to reduce health care costs to make it affordable, 
it needs to stop at the JURIES in these court cases.  Stop giving massive
settlements to some of these people, don't allow this search for deep-pockets
to take the "blame" for something someone else (including the PATIENT) is
responsible for. This could reduce cost by over 50% (For example, ObGyn's pay
50% of their gross for insurance, and you pay an extra 50% in defensive
medicine).

> Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
David L. Cathey		                |INET: davidc@montagar.com
Montagar Software Concepts              |UUCP: ...!montagar!davidc
P. O. Box 260772, Plano TX  75026-0772  |Fone: (214)-618-2117
From: hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Protectionism and Japan
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:32:23 GMT
Distribution: usa,tx
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900

In article <BxuAE2.6D6@NeoSoft.com>, rocky@NeoSoft.com (Joe Mullally) writes:
> a widely-accepted fact, you can quote no source but yourself. I'll
> ask for the IMHO, unless it's been printed in Newsweek or some such,
 
I think a good rule of thumb is to assume that everything is IMNSHO (in my
not so humble opinion) unless they include a source, in which case it
or may not be true.
 
> time: Doug, you ask who's opinion but your own could you be expressing.
> In the way something is put, it can be implied that the notion is
> universal, or should be. That's your opinion of the House Bank. IMHO.
 
Of course I think my opinion should be universal.  If I didn't think
my opinion is correct I wouldn't express it.  There are certainly some
subjects I don't express my opinion on at all. 
 
> Do you see that if you call something stupid you are trying to shame
> anyone that might hold true the notion you slam? In a case like the
 
I would hope that no one on here considers my opinion for more
than it's worth (which isn't much).  If they do, that's their problem,
not mine.  Certainly no one on here qualifies as an expert on any of
these issues.
 
> House Bank, I'm frankly surprised that you go out of your way to
> defend them on this, when the investigation's still going on, and
> they voted not to release the Bank records. I find it absolutely
> amazing that you guys think someone put tens of thousands of dollars,
> (and not just someone, but a politician), interest-free, into a 
> non-FDIC bank, to float checks for their peers. That sums up the defense
> of the House Bank, doesn't it? Fairly so? Can it be?
 
I don't think I've ever said that the House Bank was a good idea.  I've
argued that it's been mischaracterized by the press (because it makes
a better story) and has been overemphasized.  If taxpayer money was
used to float the checks they should be required to back the money back
at standard rates.  I think it's evidence of the generous perks they
give themselves, but not much more.
 
To put everyone on notice.  Please consider all my statements IMNSHO.
In return, please be notified that I will consider your opinions IYNSHO,
unless you back up your statements with sources.
-- 
Doug Andersen
hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Clinton has won...watch your pocket!
Date: 16 Nov 1992 23:49:03 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1992Nov16.233213.23318@ra.oc.com> tk@pssparc2.mitek.com (Tom Kimball) writes:
>In article <1992Nov14.000811.14420@cpqhou.compaq.com> thomasr@cpqhou.UUCP (Thomas Rush) writes:
>>Of course they don't.  But you can either look back at this post in
>>four years and laugh at me, or you can think that maybe the 1996
>>election is where you ought to start voting Libertarian.
>I don't want Texas to become the 13th province of Cuba in 1997.

Neither do I.

What does that have to do with anything the other Thomas said?
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
           "Cat: Four legs and an attitude." -- Jim Reese
From: swisher@cs.utexas.edu (Janet M. Swisher)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Practical Atheism (Re: Bush Vetoes Stupid Education Reform Bill)
Date: 21 Nov 1992 14:36:51 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
Distribution: tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: boogie.cs.utexas.edu
Keywords: atheism not god

In article <1992Nov18.164951.14530@tamsun.tamu.edu>
wrr3118@tamsun.tamu.edu (Rick Russell) writes:

>"Soft" Atheist: The "soft" atheist subjects all things to the same
>evidence-based reasoning, without reserving judgement for anything.

>"Hard" Atheist: The "hard" atheist sees religion as a specifically
>perpetrated deception on the part of powerful religious and secular
>figures.  

I think these are good definitions in terms of capturing categories of
people, but I dislike the labels.  They seem to imply that "soft"
atheists are less firm in their convictions than "hard" atheists.
They are equally atheistic, but "hard" atheists have additional,
political, views about religion.  I would substitute "areligious" and
"antireligous" for "soft" and "hard".

-- 
Don't take life so serious ... it ain't *no how* permanent. -- Porkypine.
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: YOU OWE ME FREE HEALTHCARE!
Date: 20 Nov 92 14:12:40 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <Bxz0Jq.4Is@NeoSoft.com> hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen) writes:

>In article <1992Nov18.142322.17141@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>> In <BxvM36.5p6@NeoSoft.com> hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen) writes:
>> 
>> >In article <1992Nov15.223808.28181@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>> >> Pardon me, but I don't believe the plan Clinton is proposing falls
>> >> under the term 'socialized medicine' (unless they redefined
>> >> 'socialized' when I wasn't paying attention ;-)).
>> > 
>> >What do you call it when the government starts deciding how
>> >much people can charge for health care?
>> 
>> That depends on just who is paying the bills.
> 
>Now you're really got me confused.  There is only one group that CAN pay
>the bills.  The citizens/taxpayers of this country.

Well, then all I can say is that you must be pretty easily confused.
Who pays the bills now?  Same group.  Funny how that works, huh?
Stating tautologies proves nothing.

Anyway, let me see if I can clear up your confusion.  In 'socialized
medicine', the GOVERNMENT taxes and then uses those proceeds to pay
for health care for the citizens.  The government decides how much
health care is available, how much it is worth, and who gets it.
Ergo, in this case we say that the government is paying the bills,
even though we all know where the government gets the bulk of its
revenue. 

Now, examine the Clinton plan and get back to me.  You will note that
among the things it is NOT are 'socialized medicine' and a 'command
economy for medical care'.

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
From: tom@europa.lonestar.org (Tom Kimball)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Clinton has won...watch your pocket!
Date: 16 Nov 92 04:34:15 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Moria Mining Guild (BBS) -- Dallas, Texas, USA

In article <1992Nov13.225044.39377@watson.ibm.com> johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000) writes:
>Like it or not, =all= borrowing, spending, and taxing originates in the
>House of Representatives.

Well, in the same sense that the Electorial College is responsible for 
electing the President. 

-- 
Tom Kimball  			tom@europa.lerctr.org    
tom@europa.lonestar.org		tom%europa@egsner.cirr.com