HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: masterov@filter.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael Masterov)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
Subject: Re: Gays in the Military
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:33:40 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <jhansen.721585658@convex.convex.com> jhansen@convex.com (James Hansen) writes:
>In <1992Nov12.023307.25275@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> masterov@filter.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael Masterov) writes:
>
>>Actually, there is a simple reason why homosexuals are untenable in the
>>military and it is the same reason women in combat costitute a problem.
>
>I almost choked when I read this.  Your reasons given below don't hold
>water.
>
>>For the sake of simplicity, we can categorize all armies into fanatic
>>and non-fanatic types.  The fanatic types are almost exclusively composed
>>of people who believe, at the gut level, that death in combat is a great
>>thing for everyone.  [...]
>>I think we all agree that the US army does not qualify.
>
>Then what's your point?
>
>>A non-fanatic soldier on the front line with a lover next to him/her is a
>>disaster!  What kind of reasonably normal human being (NOT a fanatic)
>>will consider ANY risk unjustified to save the person he/she loves?
>>No amount of discipline will handle this!
>
>The bonding you mention occurs all the time among men in the ranks and
>I don't see a rash of court martials going on because of it.

No, you don't see the court martials.  But while not incredibly common, it
does happen.  The ties of friendship are not quite the same as the ties of
love, so it constitutes less of a problem.  But make no mistake, it is a
problem.  Question is, how do you court martial an offender even if he does
happen to survive?  "I was just getting my buddy out.  He would have died!"
>
>>Answer this honestly:  If you are in combat and your lover is wounded,
>>do you leave him/her behind just because someone ordered you to?  Could
>>you leaver your lover to die like that?  I know I could not.
>
>No, I could not.  But I'd make sure I would never be put in such a
>position to begin with.

I'm sure you have control over falling in love... :-)
>
>>We have women in the army but not in combat, but the same method could
>>never be made to work for gay men.
>
>I think the reasons for keeping women out of combat has to do more with
>sexism and the differences in physical characteristics than the reason
>you put forth here.

I never accused the military types of being clear thinkers.  I am only
stating that the reason exists, not that the brass hats actually know what
it is.  My guess is they don't.
>
>>There are other, less compelling reasons, but they all boil down to
>>being discipline problems.
>
>Same was said about African-Americans 30 years ago.

Yes.  And it did cause discipline problems at first.  And the problems were
handled.  And this is why I do not bother with the other, less compelling
reasons the military types waste their breath on.  They can be handled if
there is a will.  The one I mentioned requires nothing short of fanaticism
to handle.
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: nasiatka@anhep3.anl.gov (Jim Wylde)
Subject: Re: Colorado and Oregon
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:46:00 GMT

Not to want to continue beating a dead horse here, but I just found this out yesterday...

It seems that Nirvana (Seattle based grunge band) contributed some 20,000 bucks to the
organization that sponsored the Oregon Proposition!  It lost, but that still doesn't
mean it's ok....

If you like Nirvana, or have any of thier records/cd's - 
a) BURN them!!

b) Write to the record label tellling them why your so pissd at them and how you'll never
   buy another one of Nirvana's albums, or any other record on that label!  (I think they
   are on Warner/Electra but I'm not sure...)

Boycott them!

Jim
From: steve.connelly@synapse.org (Steve Connelly) 
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
Subject: Re: Want to meet a gay pe
Date: 6 Nov 92 04:29:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SYNAPSE BBS - GATINEAU, QUEBEC - 819-561-4321
Reply-To: steve.connelly@synapse.org (Steve Connelly) 

CZ>I am a lesbian and know lots of gays. Some of them are assholes and
CZ>some of them hate women. But one fact you can count on is that every
CZ>gay is _surrounded_ with at least one het woman.

CZ>Christina Zennaro

Huh?  I am gay, but the only girls I know are lesbians...with the
exception of my sister.  Not that I dislike straight females...
I just don't know any at the moment.  It can be a lot easier that
way than having to explain to them why I'm not interested and
why I don't have a girlfriend.  Thanks dear, but I am "married"
already.  It helps if I wear a wedding band (on my right hand!)
---
 . DeLuxe. 1.21 #777sa . Nuclear war has broken out....story at 11......
                                                                                       
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual,alt.sex.homosexual
From: steve.connelly@synapse.org (Steve Connelly) 
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
Subject: Re: Gays in the Military
Date: 6 Nov 92 04:29:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SYNAPSE BBS - GATINEAU, QUEBEC - 819-561-4321
Reply-To: steve.connelly@synapse.org (Steve Connelly) 

CZ>Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
CZ>From: zennaro@iesd.auc.dk (Christina Zennaro)
CZ>Subject: Re: Gays in the Military

CZ>I really cannot understand why there is all this fuss about gays and
CZ>lesbians in the military. There have been for years openly in the
CZ>danish military and I have never heard of any problems. In fact it is
CZ>now more than 10 years ago it stopped being an excuse for not being
CZ>drafted.

CZ>Christina Zennaro

Canada has thrown out its law discriminating against gays and lesbians
in the Military.  One step closer to equality!
---
 . DeLuxe. 1.21 #777sa . Go ahead! Do it! You can always apologise later.
       
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea)
Subject: Re: Gays in the Military
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 03:35:20 EST

In article <ZENNARO.92Nov2123129@mohr.iesd.auc.dk> zennaro@iesd.auc.dk (Christina Zennaro) writes:
>
>I find it astonishing that hets go on believing we are raving
>sex-maniacs. Sometimes I wish it were true. Why do people assume that
>onle because we label ourselves by our sexual orientation that we only
>think of/have sex?

Why label yourself at all? I think acceptance comes not from asserting 
differences from hets but from showing that sex is NOT a great determining
factor in life. After all, the concept of "Het pride" is repugnant to me--
although I am het. I think homosexuality can be accepted by "the mainstream"
if gays/lesbians are 

1. Not afraid of admitting openly they are gay, and
2. More interested in showing they are better known as engineers, 
miners, football players, lawyers, whatever rather than gay. When I
was at UMass I knew several gays and lesbians, some in the militanty
groups, some just going about their lives. I respected those people
just doing their thing but keeping it private, where it should be.
After all, should I be known by the way I make love to women,
or how many I've had, etc? Or do i want to base my whole identity
on my sexual preference? IMO, this is wrong and unfair to myself
and to others. 

Creating differnce creates fighting. Fighting solves nothing.
Creating community creates acceptance. Acceptance solves EVERTYHING.

Chris

Newsgroups: alt.homosexual,alt.transgendered,alt.sex,sci.psychology
From: mpevans@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mark Evans)
Subject: Re: Why?
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 19:11:47 GMT

eagle@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Daniel L'Hommedieu) writes:

>hoyerr@ucs.orst.edu (Richard Hoyer) writes:
>>If you were gay (or had even thought about how you became sexually aware) you
>>would know that homosexuality is not discovered.  It just happens.

>I did recently notice that the Bible says that "homosexual offenders
>shall not inherit the kingdom of God."  Notice that it explicitely uses
>the word, "offenders."  Kinda makes a heterosexual wonder if
>homosexuality really does "just happen."

Where in the bible, please!!!

>>I don't know.  Here in Corvallis, OR, there seem to be a lot more Lesbians
>>than Gays!  :-)

>Poor people from Lesbos!  (You do know that Lesbians are people from
>Lesbos, don't you?)

Studys have shown them to have a close heritage with those from atlantis :-)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: elesatz@diana.cair.du.edu (Eric LeSatz)
Subject: Re: Gay rights and the Colorado bigots
Organization: University of Denver, Denver, Colorado
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 07:50:29 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.000158.21489@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> glenn@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (GLENN ROBERT ALAN) writes:
>In article <1992Nov6.064022.3047@mercury.cair.du.edu> elesatz@diana.cair.du.edu (Eric LeSatz) writes:

>>And as far as your boycott goes, that's a joke! 
>
>WE'RE QUEER, WE'RE HERE, AND WE WON'T GO AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>If you think the gay community is just going to shut up after a while,
>you're wrong!  We'll do this forever, if that's what it takes.

That's good and I think you should stand up for what you believe in.
You'll probably get what you want a few years down the road by
pressuring politicians and bypassing the voters. Then again, if you
stand to loose 50% of your vote by supporting one way or the other, a
politican probably wouldn't express an opinion.

I did find it interesting how the poles had amendment 2 loosing badly,
but once those curtains closed, people voted their mind.

Anyway, I'm going to hit 'u' after I post this article, but I would
like to say that I have a lot of respect for the readers of this
group. I didn't receive any flames; just constructive messages that
argued the point. 

Eric

Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: eknipp@lobo.rmhs.colorado.edu (Ethan R Knipp)
Subject: Re: Want to meet a gay person
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 15:34:29 GMT
Organization: Rocky Mountain High School, Fort Collins, CO

In article <Bx4740.B34@cs.psu.edu> cadwell@rad.psu.edu writes:
>In article 1d4colINNhkg@darkstar.UCSC.EDU, stephen@orchid.UCSC.EDU (x4604 (Hauskins)) writes:
>>In article <ZENNARO.92Oct29132448@mohr.iesd.auc.dk> zennaro@iesd.auc.dk (Christina Zennaro) writes:
>>>I am a lesbian and know lots of gays. Some of them are assholes and
>>>some of them hate women. But one fact you can count on is that every
>>>gay is _surrounded_ with at least one het woman.
>>>
>>>Christina Zennaro
>>>
>>
[...]

Maybe het women feel more secure around gay men- because gay men won't rape a 
woman- unlike a good deal of assinine het men.

Ethan Knipp
eknipp@lobo.rmhs.colorado.edu


Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: nasiatka@anhep3.anl.gov (Jim Wylde)
Subject: Re: Gays in the Military
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:39:21 GMT

Just thought I'd note this here....

Todays Chicago Tribune reported that the US Federal Court ruled in favor of ex-Navy
flier Keith Meinhold, and that the Navy violated his civil rights when it discharged
him for coming out of the closet.  They are planning on officially reinstating him
on Thursday.

This opens the door to fully proving that the militarys ban on us is unconstitutional.

Also, last week a Canadian Federal Court ruled similarly in a 1989 case.

Happy Veterans Day!

Jim Wylde


Newsgroups: alt.homosexual,alt.sex.homosexual
From: elesatz@diana.cair.du.edu (Eric LeSatz)
Subject: Colorado Amendment 2
Organization: University of Denver, Denver, Colorado
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 20:57:08 GMT


I honestly can't see why everyone is crying about the passage of
amendment 2. We've got signs all over the place, "Colorado loves to
hate!"

This is complete bullshit. Granted, the people who drafted the
amendment hate gays etc, but all amendments are written by people who
feel extremely strongly about a cause.

What I can't understand is why homosexuals feel they should have
'special' rights above and beyond the 'equal' rights shared by
everyone. The no on 2 people tried a campaign saying that if this
passes, a homosexual could be fired just because of his sexual
orientation. Well, I got news for ya...special protection or not,
homosexuals have been recovering millions in law suits because of
being fired for that reason.

As far as discrimination in hiring goes, how would anyone know your
sexual orientation in the first place? I wouldn't hire a flamer, but
at the same time I wouldn't hire a heterosexual with green and blue
hair. It just plain doesn't look professional.

My point is that Colorado doesn't hate. Colorado voters voted this
amendment in because we feel that homosexuals shouldn't have special
rights. And if you believe they should, then heterosexuals should also
have special legislation passed to protect them from discrimination by
homosexual employers..

Eric
______________________________________________________________________________
|__Eric LeSatz_________________[]{}__I've got seven in the clip and one______|
|__elesatz@diana.cair.du.edu___[]{}__in the chamber. Will that be enough??___|
|__lesatz@phakt.usc.edu________[]{}__If it ain't, I'm in BIG trouble!!_______|
|______________________________[]{}__________________________________________|
From: ST402747@brownvm.brown.edu (blomberg cepeda)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
Subject: Re: Ancient Greece - Homosexuality
Date: 12 Nov 92 00:33:25 GMT
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

The expert on Greek sexuality is David Halperin at MIT. The one article I know
is "Sex before Sexuality: Pederasty, Politics, and Power in Classical Athens",
in *Hidden from History: Reclaiming the Gay and Lesbian Past*.
       In a word, it wasn't sex, it wasn't class, it was power (the Leather
Age, so to speak).

                   blomberg cepeda   st402747@brownvm
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass)
Subject: Re: Colorado and Oregon
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 10:17:48 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.224600.29539@mcs.anl.gov> nasiatka@anhep3.anl.gov (Jim Wylde) writes:
>Not to want to continue beating a dead horse here, but I just found this out yesterday...


You sire are an WRONG!  
People like you who start these vicious rumors hurt the gay civil rights
movement!

Nirvana held a Concert in Portland and proceeds went to "NO ON 9"!!!!!

Sorry about my harsh reaction, but God these people and thier gossip.
Same thing with the Blockbuster Video rumor......get with it people!

>
>It seems that Nirvana (Seattle based grunge band) contributed some 20,000 bucks to the
>organization that sponsored the Oregon Proposition!  It lost, but that still doesn't
>mean it's ok....
>
>If you like Nirvana, or have any of thier records/cd's - 
>a) BURN them!!
>
>b) Write to the record label tellling them why your so pissd at them and how you'll never
>   buy another one of Nirvana's albums, or any other record on that label!  (I think they
>   are on Warner/Electra but I'm not sure...)
>
>Boycott them!
>
>Jim
>
>


tsk, tsk, tsk.......
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: gns0897@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Subject: homosexual adoption
Reply-To: gns0897@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1992 02:18:21 GMT


   I am writing an opposing viewpoint essay for a class and have been unable
to find very much information on whether homosexual couples should be able
to adopt.
   I would appreciate any information that you may be able to give me on 
this topic.

   Thanks in advance!
                                              Nicole
From: jleduc@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (JonPaul Leduc)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
Subject: Re: Gays in the Military
Date: 11 Nov 92 23:24:52 GMT
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.


>You were sounding like the voice of reason, then the image was shattered
>with that terrible cliche "I respected those people just doing their
>thing but keeping it private, where it should be."
>
>If gays have to keep their sexuality private, then heteros should too.
>This means that heteros must not place a photo of their spouse on their
>desk, nor should they wear a wedding ring (gays still cannot legally get
>married).  They should not identify the sex of their hot date last night,
>nor should anyone listening infer that it was a member of the opposite sex
>(remember, sexual orientation is a private thing, no?)  Isn't this
>absurd?  Of course it is.  Why should gays keep their sexuality
>private when straights do not?

That is definately a good point, but I don't think that the cliche was
meant in the traditional manner.  I think he meant the type of person who
shakes your hand for the first time and says, "Hi I'm Bob and I'm gay."
That does not show that the person has anything to do with the real world.

It is not Bob the Engineer, just Bob the gay.  That is not the image that
is productive.  The idea is to show people who around them in "their" world
is gay.  The perspective that these militant types give non-gays is that
they are VERY shallow, and that their life revolves around their sexuality.
I can't stand Hets who talk like that, I am certainly not happy about gays
who can't get off their sex life.

I think it is about time the gay community was defined by who they are and
not who they sleep with.  But the thrust if the in your face gays gives a
very shallow and one sided look at a group of people, and just feeds into
the stereotypes.

--Jean-Paul Leduc
--Northwestern University
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual,alt.sex.homosexual
From: elesatz@diana.cair.du.edu (Eric LeSatz)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2
Organization: University of Denver, Denver, Colorado
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 22:51:17 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.213157.10160@tc.cornell.edu> shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
>In article <1992Nov5.205708.28426@mercury.cair.du.edu> elesatz@diana.cair.du.edu (Eric LeSatz) writes:
>>My point is that Colorado doesn't hate. Colorado voters voted this
>>amendment in because we feel that homosexuals shouldn't have special
>>rights.
>
>Articulate these special rights that homosexuals are asking
>for, if you would.
>--
>           Hate is not a family value.  Boycott Colorado
>
>       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu


I don't have to. Whatever it is is is above and beyond the equal right
which we all live by.

Eric
From: sleat@kpc.com (Michael Sleator)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual,alt.sex.homosexual
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2
Date: 6 Nov 92 06:53:36 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Kubota Pacific Computer Corporation, Santa Clara, CA

In article <1992Nov6.004142.378@mercury.cair.du.edu> elesatz@diana.cair.du.edu (Eric LeSatz) writes:

>Hmm...seems to me that many gays have been fired merely for the fact
>that they are homosexual. But they also receive large cash awards from
>the courts when they do. I know of one case where the guy got $5
>million...

This is indeed good news.  Can you provide specifics?



>>3)  freedom from housing discrimination based on
>>    sexual orientation
>
>I'll admit I really don't know much about this issue, but HOW would
>someone know if you are gay or not????? It's not like race where
>the various races are easily recognized.

Well, they might see the picture of you and your lover on your desk.  Or
they might note that you showed up with the same man/woman at both the
company picnic *and* the company Christmas party.  Or when they ask how
you got such a sunburn last weekend you might say that it was really hot
at the gay pride parade this year.

Or, they might not know.  They might just *assume* you are... and fire you.

I'll stop now, in case that faint glow I see is the light dawning.  If you're
still in the dark, ask again.



Michael Sleator			Voice:		408-748-6339
Kubota Pacific Computer		FAX:		408-748-6301
2630 Walsh Ave.			internet:	sleat@kpc.com
Santa Clara, CA  95051		uucp:		...!uunet!kpc!sleat
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual,alt.transgendered,alt.sex,sci.psychology
From: phi@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Aeleck)
Subject: Re: Why?
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:54:13 GMT

In article <1992Nov08.142206.7204@donau.et.tudelft.nl> thomas%knoware.ruu.nl@accucx.cc.ruu.nl (Thomas Okken) writes:
>Why?
>
>There are certain abnormal behaviours among men, in our present-day western
>culture, that are so widely misrepresented and misunderstood, that I find it
>unbearable to just sit and watch, as people are destroyed by prejudice. I am
>talking about homosexuality and cross-dressing, and also about
>transsexuality.
>To define these terms:
>- Homosexuality: having or wanting intimate or sexual relations with men
>- Cross-dressing: wearing or wanting to wear women's clothes
>- Transsexuality: wanting to be a woman
>Parallel behaviours also occur among women, by the way, but in this article,
>I will concentrate on the male angle. Since I am a man, that is my area of
>expertise.
>When referring to homosexuality, cross-dressing and transsexuality as a
>group, I will call them "unMale" behaviours. This is just for convenience; as
>will become apparent, I make no moral judgment.
Bullshit, This is as far as I got and you've already made three insulting
moral judgements.  First of all, homosexuality (this is the only stance I am
making here) is NOT an abnormal behavior.  Just because your christian,
heterosexual (maybe not intentional) bigotry views it as such, do not point the 
finger at me.  Homosexuality has been around as long as heterosexuality.  
Longer, if you believe in the myth of Adam and Eve.  (God originally made Adam
Unisexual....as in only one sex.)
Second, homosexuality is more than the "wanting intimate oe sexual relations 
with men".  It is means just as much as a heterosexual relationship.  (ie:
Loving, Caring, Feelings, Commitment, etc.)
And thirdly, Last time I checked I was a Male.  Eventhough I'm gay, I still
have a penis, and that is all that matters as far as being a Male.  So go
UnMale someone, else.
From this I decided I had no interest to read the next 119 lines of your drivel.

Aeleck                 /                  /  
                      /                  /        
     __      __      /   __      __     /         
    /  \    /  \    /   /  \    /  \   / \        "If you're not having
   /   /   /\__/   /   /\__/   /      /\_/         fun, you're doing some-
   \__/\__/\___/__/\__/\___/__/\___/ /   \__/      thing wrong." -Patrick

            "Hate is not a family value.  Boycott Colorado" 
                                       -Melinda Shore(shore@tc.cornell.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual