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Approved-By:  Uma Ramamurthy <uma@ORION.STJUDE.ORG>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.india-d
Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:41:04 -0600
From:         Uma Ramamurthy <uma@orion.stjude.org>
Subject:      India-D Digest - Jan 26

India Interest Group Digest Tue, 26 Jan 93       Volume 2: Issue  85

Today's Topics:

      A few words on Mr M M Ali's posting
      A question about Visitor's Visa
      Dual Citizenship ...
      Economic developmet: comparing india and other countries
      Football vs. Cricket
      Hot off the press
      India-D
      Indian Economy
      Indian Youth
      Japan-5
      KamalX gets Hemorrhoids - Part I
      Language Debate - Part 6 of 6
      On Recipes...
      On secularism & India's future - Part 3 of 4
      Regionalism/Casteism
      Religion(s) in peril !!!!
      Republic Day
      Scores at benson & hedges tournament in Australia
      The cause of the problems in India
      Vara Dakshina (Dowry)

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Date: 25 Jan 1993 16:38:21 -0600 (CST)
From: harsat@iastate.edu (Harsha Sathyamurthy)
Subject: A few words on Mr M M Ali's posting

I'd like to point out a few things to Mr.Ali ... IT TAKES TWO HANDS TO CLAP.
His notion that, the muslim population in india is so preoccupied with earning
their bread that they dont get involved with anything else, holds little
water. Even as netters are reading this they will give a casual glance as to
the person who wrote this.Whether he/she is a hindu or a muslim or a .......
come on folks face it, deep down all of us are proud of our religion and our
people. If the muslims love their motherland why then do they have different
laws ?? Why cant they accept " ONE COUNTRY ONE CIVIL CODE " ?? True, that the
muslim population has been taken for a ride by politicians,but it hasnt been
forced,and often it has been by muslims themselves. If many muslims are below
the poverty line dont tell me that population and lack of education has nothing
to do with it .The people had the right to elect their representative,if they
choose a demon they'll have to live with that until the next change. period.
Hinduism has been, is, and will be a tolerant religion.Tolerance is our
basic tenet. The ball is now with the minorities either to stay or leave.
Either way India will still be secular.

About posting articles like these,I think the editor has done wisely to allow
a healthy debate.We are all reasonably educated.Education means rational
thinking,just because i call a spade a spade you need not accept it without
verifying it, at the same time if it is accept it.Letting our passions and
emotions rise does nothing more than place us among the many heads in a
frenzied mob.

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jan 1993 15:26:11 -0600
From: ANIRBAN SHARMA <shar@utdallas.edu>
Subject: A question about Visitor's Visa

Would appreciate any information on the following question:

I've heard that it sometimes helps for a prospective Indian tourist
to the USA to take an "invitation letter" to the American consulate
when applying for a visitor visa. I'm not sure if this letter should
be addressed to the prospective visitor OR to the American consulate
advising them that the visitor will be a welcome guest. Does anybody
know the answer or have any tips on the subject.
Thanks.

Anirban.

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jan 1993 09:13:31 +0900 (JST)
From: arvind@funa.Japan.Sun.COM
Subject: Dual Citizenship ...

Does any one has any further info on this subject? When will this be
implemented? Who qualifies for dual citizenship? Can a US naturalized
citizen (who was Indian before) qualify or not? Will there be two passports
involved? What about children born to Indian parents, who live abroad?

-Arvind Deogirikar

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jan 1993 16:00:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Nidhi Srinivas <SRINIVAS@Management.McGill.CA>
Subject: Economic developmet: comparing india and other countries

hi netters
two interesting notes last week on indian economic development compared india
with the us and japan respectively. promod pratap was interested in comparing
political stability at similar times in the us and india's history.
Venkat Ramakrishna was looking at unity of japan vs that of india. i wish to
point out: a. that such comparisons are inherently flawed and b. build a case
for finding indian solutions to indian underdevelopment.

first, about comparing india and japan: india's history has never shown a sense
of unity because of its geography. our country is huge (even in ashoka's time
the nation was not as large as it is today-- it then excluded much of south
india), and the indus valley was a key entry point for the "invaders" (who by
the way were not just the moghuls but the aryans before them, as any DMK party
member will tell you). japan is four islands: it can easily prevent external
influences. homogeneity was therefore easier to ensure in japan than in india.
so it is difficult to make any reasoned comparison of issues like national unity
and cohesiveness of cultures between these two nations due to such considerable
differences.

similarly, the us and india are hard to compare: india was colonised by the
british who drained it off much of its wealth. the us was *settled* by
the british who eventually exterminated as much of the native population as they
could. the us was a largely virgin territory with (even now) an enormous
level of natural resources. india had been settled for many centuries by
the time the british invaded it.

of course there is a point to all this, which is: at one time economic
development to us indians meant becoming "modern" and western. some ten years
back, it began to mean wholesale import of japanese techniques. i even hear some
people these days urging that we return to our 'roots' and reject western
influences (and become loyal 'bharatis' i bet, hahaha!). all these stances
are extremes: if there is one lesson japan can teach us it is to understand
our situation, our people, our cultures (note the plural) and *adapt*
development theories to it. after all japan did not develop quality control
(an american did). but they did recognize its relevance to their needs and
adopted it. and the rest, as they say, is history!

affly
nidhi

------------------------------

Date: 24 Jan 1993 20:30:11 -0500 (EST)
From: fqureshi@vtssi.vt.edu (Fayaz Qureshi)
Subject: Football vs. Cricket

Greetings!
This is in reply to Mr. Sandeep Krishnamurthy's article on American
football.  I agree with him entirely on the point that American football
is a truly fantastic game, contrary to the popular beliefs of most
Indians and Pakistanis.  No doubt that it is a great way to make friends
and have fun.  I also like the game very much but saying that it is the
grandest sport and spectacele in the world might be stretching it a bit
too far.  Can the floodlights, bands, cheerleaders, bright uniforms and
jazzy helmets, ever compete with the white flannels and the red cricket
ball.  Of course you can also find all the other elements minus the bands
and cheerleaders at the day - night games.  But I am crazy about the true
form of the game, ie. test matches.  Kickoffs, Field goals and Punts can
never compare with the sheer elegance and grace of batsmen like Azhar and
Miandad and the pace and skill of bowlers like Wasim and Waqar.  How many
of you will back me up on that?
I am personally a Redskins fan.  I hate the Cowboys and the 49'ers and I had
made a bet with my roommate that the Cowboys will not win the Superbowl
this year.  I am rooting for the Buffalo Bills otherwise I will be broke
on the 31st of the month.

Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jan 1993 18:17:25 -0700 (MST)
From: sl870@neptune.ee.usu.edu (The Gargonator)
Subject: Hot off the press

    This just in.

    Another boat load of intellectual refugees from India arrived in Los
Angeles this morning. The group of around 56 Bachelor's degree holders
had sailed from India in half a Boeing 747, carrying nothing but
two suitcases full of curry powder each. The journey which lasted a gut
twisting 36 hours left many of the weaker members, mainly those from non-IIT
institutions half dead. Their exhaustion was said to be caused mainly by
excessive repetition of the in-flight movie.

    Customs officials said the refugees were being housed in a makeshift
airport lounge and provided with basic medical facilities like six
packs of Coke and a TV. A spokeswoman for the INS said they were not sure
whether the boat people would be allowed to remain in the country, since
they were intellectual, and not political refugees. However, some of the
boat people claimed they were victims of persecution in their home country,
where they were not allowed to speak before thinking, or even to expose
their boorishness to thousands at the hit of a key.

    This is the 153rd such group of refugees to arrive in the States.  Their
increasing number is causing concern among civil rights groups.  The spokesman
of one, the Association for the Advancement of Brain Dead Persons, said,
quote, "These people have come here seeking the American Dream. All they
want is a chance to show crude they can really be. But how about our own
Brain Dead. Thats what they want too. Plus, it has less calories." unquote.
Previous arrivals are being cared for in a charity home called INDIA-D,
where they have access to the proper intellectual environment necessary
to maintain their brain damaged status.

Ullas Gargi

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jan 1993 10:35:36 -0500 (EST)
From: dhulipal@egr.msu.edu
Subject: India-D

>  [ Dear Member,
>         The Editor answered your questions a month ago, on this Digest.
>   We do not have the time and do not see any need/purpose in repeating
>   those answers again and again. At India-D, we appreciate the fact that
>   you are entitled to your views, your criticisms, your claims, your
>   surprises and your questions --- So long as your expression of these
>   conform to the guidelines and format of this forum, your posting
>   will be accepted and posted in this Digest.                  - Editor ]
************************************
Contrary to what you claim above you have not answered any of the
questions I had asked. If you have, could you please repeat the answers.
Or could any of the editor's supporters who endorse her views that
people who don't like the biased implementation of the editorial
policies should quit because she is providing a 'free service' answer
the following questions.

1) If somebody else is willing to provide the same free service, will
the editor quit.

2) Will she agree to an opinion poll on what people think of her
implementation of the editorial policies.

Dhulipala Ramakrishna

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jan 1993 17:48:28 -0600 (CST)
From: "Nadana S. Loganathasamy" <loganat@weber.ece.ukans.edu>
Subject: Indian Economy

HERE ARE SOME FACTS TO PONDER :
1) In 1977, INDIA's total foreign debt was around 6000 crore rupees .
2) In 1997, janata government comes to power in the centre and it adopts a
 policy of not borrowing from foreign sources, except under rare circumstances.
3) During that time the price for sugar in the international market is at an
 all time high and Dr.N. MAHALINGAM a prominent industrialist from TAMIL NADU,
 suggests to the centre that INDIA sell half of its sugar production in the
 world market for a period of 2 or 3 years and  INDIA will be a foreign debt
 free nation. But his advice falls on deaf ears in the centre.
4) In 1980 janata government falls and the foreign debt figures stand at 7000
 crore rupees.
5) In 1989 INDIA's foreign debt amounts to a staggering 80000 crore rupees,
 (a deadly combination of short term and long term loans),thereby making it
 clear that those in power at the centre from 1980 to 1989 were the ones
 responsible for this sorry state of affairs.(NOTE: RUPEE DEVALUATION MAKES
 THE PROBLEM ACUTE IN RUPEE TERMS)
6) Now some of the short term loans are due and it adds to the already
 bludgeoning interest problem ( note that all these are paid in $$ not Rs.)
 All these led to INDIA's GOLD going abroad in 1991,under CHANDRA SEKHAR.
 ( May be that INDIA's GOLD too wanted to go on foreign trips like INDIA'n
 leaders)
7) Now INDIA borrows to pay interest and pay short term loans and now it's
 credit rating is on par with VENEZUELA, a known defaulter.
8) Now unconfirmed reports put INDIA's external debt at around 200000 crore
 (2 lakh crore) rupees and INDIA's internal debt at around  600000 crore (6
 lakh crore) rupees. that is approximately 10000 Rs. for every LIVING INDIAN
 CITIZEN (grown ups, new borns, the old and the infirm all are included in the
 all pervasive deadly debt trap as it excludes only the DEAD).
9) Can some one educate me on whether detailed reports on how this money had
 been spent by the centre.It would be helpful to get a chart on how much was
 spent by the centre on defence etc and how much was invested in the states
 (a state wise chart will explain without any subjectivity how the centre had
 treated each state).
10) Removing all sentimental talk, INDIA as a nation came into being on
 AUGUST 15, 1947 ONLY and ONLY ECONOMIC INTER DEPENDABILITY can hold it
 together and the SHINING STAR ON THE GLOOMY SKIES is Dr.MANMOHAN SINGH.(He
 is the only person to have talked about creating a healthy economy in the
 near future).If he succeeds in his reforms then INDIA will be like GERMANY,
 an industrial and economic power house.If the opposite happens look towards
 YUGOSLAVIA and draw your own conclusions. ***** HOPE FOR THE BEST *****.

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jan 1993 13:48:41 -0500
From: SSPALSHIKAR@amherst.edu
Subject: Indian Youth

Netters,
        Some time ago I posted a query for information about Indian youth.  I
repeat it again, and also make it more specific.  Does anyone have the names
of groups in India working with youth, doing leaderhip training, diversity
training, nonviolence training, etc.?  Are there any other people interested
in issues involving young people in India?  I am hoping to go there next year
and do some work with young people.  Thanks for any comments, help, suggestions.

shreeyash

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jan 1993 15:02:42 +0900 (JST)
From: Praveen Bhatia <bhatia@space.mech.tohoku.ac.jp>
Subject: Japan-5

                                Dieties of Japan

The siginificant advances that Japan has  made  technologically,  surely   makes
one  think  that  the  Japanese must be completely free from the  influences  of
dietes/gods/demi-gods and  the  various  superstions associated with them.  This
is  far from true!! Yes ! it is a society dominated  by  science and  technology
but  the  role  played by their dieties and demi-gods  in  daily  lives  of  the
Japanese  is  hardly   insignificant.  Hatsumoode  is one of the popular customs
celeberated during the first 3 days of the New Year and it   is   reported  that
80%  of  the Japanese population observes this custom by going to the shrine and
worshipping.

Coming of the New year  is celeberated with great prompt and many  other   asso-
ciated  rituals.  In  the  not too distant past (about 30 years ago) it was cus-
tomary for the Japanese families all  over  the country to collect and make "mo-
chi"  -  a  rice  cake - before the coming of the New Year. (In the modern Japan
only  a  few  families gather together to follow this custom as they  prefer  to
buy  the  mochies   from   the   market.) However,  on  the New Year day all the
Japanese will be performing a cermony at home in  which  mochi  is  sure  to  be
present  along  with other more or less fixed rituals. Another interesting thing
that I had observed was that the oven which is used to boil the rice has  a  God
dedicated  to  it  !  --  The OVEN GOD !! and  the Oven God is offered the mochi
before it is consumed by others.

Like the diety for the oven there are  myraid  number  of  other  dieties.   The
number of dieties may be as  high as 8 million which would equate to saying that
gods exist everywhere. There are gods that watch over ovens, &  gods  for   each
plot  of   land   and  then there are gods that protect them and then those that
make them pass exams etc. etc.... In  Japan,  for each  plot  of  land,  regard-
less  of  the size, has its own diety! Thus, before any construction is  begun a
ground breaking cerymony called "Jichinsai" is held to seek    the    protection
of   the  deity   of  the  land on which the building is to be built. And if the
building is to be used for  commerce purpose,  an  Inrai  shrine  dedicated   to
the   god of commerce is almost always erected on the roof to seek that particu-
lar deity's favor.

Doesn't that smell of the rituals that we follow back in India, and doesn't that
also  indicate that these rituals need not be a burden in developing technologi-
cally :)

------------------------------

Date: 24 Jan 1993 19:10:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Prasad@biologysx.lan.nrc.ca
Subject: KamalX gets Hemorrhoids - Part I

Once upon a time there was a man called KamalX (not to be confused with
MalcolmX). He was so old that one could determine his age only by Carbon
Dating. He was poor, diabetic; his property was looted several times. But he
was a strong, wise and knowledgeable man. Everybody blamed his having a big
family for his poverty and misery. His family doctor, Joyhar at the Come
Grace Hospital died in 1962 and he decided to stay with Joyhar's daughter
Indira Jee. It was OK until 1975. Dr.Jee's behaviour started behaving weird
and her prescriptions (like juice of green chillies, acids, etc.) looked too
strong and with too many side effects. One day she put him into the Emergency
Ward. Dr. Jee's son Gunjai, who didn't have any medical qualification, was
made incharge of the Emergency Ward. The name of the hospital was changed to
Con Graze hospital (most of the doctors behaved like cons). Dr.Jee was
replaced by Dr. Moral Jee as the Chief. Dr. Moral Jee had high morals. But
the euphoria was short lived; this doctors team was even crazier: Urine
Therapy for KamalX's problem and Cow Dung Formula by Dr. Gharan Singh. KamalX
got fed up. Indira became the chief again. Gunjai died in a plane accident.
She continued her crazy prescriptions and brought her elder son Raw Jeev to
help her. She made too many enemies and was killed in 1984 by her own
bodyguard. Raw Jeev became the chief. He was naive but tried to bring state
of the art equipment. KamalX's condition was getting worse and he found out
he had HEMORRHOIDS and Stomach Kashmiroma.He had profuse bleeding, dysentery.
Raw Jeev was replaced by Dr.Vishwa Nash in 1989. Dr.Nash did Mandal Blood
Transfusion for KamalX. KamalX thought Dr.Nash was simply ripping him off
with his even crazier treatments. During the transfusion KamalX contracted
AIDS*. Raw Jeev was also killed. Dr. Nurse Imba replaced Dr.Nash. He brought
a good team: one of them was Money Mohan. The hemorrhoids got better but the
Kashmiroma stayed. They insisted on a good diet, exercise and that he should
get a better job so that he could afford a better life. KamalX thought there
was light at the end of the tunnel. No, not so soon. Now a group of veteri-
narians headed by Dr.Sad Vani wanted to take control of the hospital. Their
formula: All human beings are living creatures and they can take veterinary
medicines and pesticides for their ailments. They suggested that KamalX
should take Preparation 'H' for his hemorrhoids, NO! not locally, but orally
and a pesticide called HindEx for the Kashmiroma. KamalX was not convinced.
Sad Vani and his vet team forced him to drink HindEx anyway. KamalX started
vomitting blood. HE IS IN COMA NOW AS YOU READ this story. Meanwhile the old
and weak Dr.Nurse Imba, Dr.Garjun and Dr.Power arrive late at the scene and
rush him to the intensive care. So will KamalX survive ??????????????????????
.......Story Continues........................................Krishna Prasad

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jan 1993 16:49 -0600 (CST)
From: Deivan Durai <DURAI@KSUVM.KSU.EDU>
Subject: Language Debate -- Part 6 of 6

15. I am in favor of India's giving every language equal status and equal
    opportunity and provisions to flourish.  Let us not talk of one language
    as being characterized by more beauty, superiority, spoken by more people,
    etc., in comparison to another.  Let us not even imply that one language,
    religion, community, etc., will be unfairly advantaged or disadvantaged.
    Our country is rich with multifarious assets; cultures, traditions,
    religions, languages, etc., etc.  Let us celebrate the richness by avoiding
    offense in any way.

16. Just because every state except Tamil Nadu hasn't officially opposed the
    imposition of Hindi doesn't make imposition of Hindi right.  It is unfair
    no matter how you look at it.

    It is not totally true that Tamils are the only group that oppose the
    special privileges given to Hindi.  You can smell opposition to Hindi in
    most of West Bengal, Ceded Districts of Andhra Pradesh, etc.  Only the
    Tamils officially stood up to the onslaught not of Hindi but of Hindi-
    pushers and Hindi-pushers still demand bragging rights.  Just because
    Hindi-pushers FEEL self-righteous doesn't make them right!

I am a Tamil, I have lived in North India, and I have rudimentary knowledge
of Hindi.  I understand the importance of Hindi but please do not tell that
Hindi will become a BINDING element for Indians as a whole.  No one will win
by denigrating the language, culture, living style, etc., of others.

Please consider at the popularity of English in Tamil Nadu.  No one pushed it
in Tamil Nadu.  If North Indians stop their Hindi-propagating techniques, there
is a very good chance that Hindi will become popular in Tamil Nadu and not
until.  We have enough polarizations that we need neither a national religion
nor a national language!

You have not seen a Tamil asking you to learn Tamil and why do what is an
anathema to him/her?  No Indian should be officially granted more benefits
because he or she knows a certain language and no Indian should be officially
penalized because he or she does not know that language.  If one benefits by
virtue of knowing Hindi so be it!  If a Tamil pays dearly by not knowing Hindi,
let him/her do it!  There cannot be official sanctions!  Why does one care
unless, of course, he/she indeed has an inherent interest in propagating
Hindi and seeing it flourish?

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jan 1993 00:19:07 -0700 (MST)
From: amitdg@carina.unm.edu
Subject: On Recipes...

Hi Netters,

>On India-D dated 24.1.93 mathrubb@sunrise.cse.fau.edu said,
>"I thought of starting a discussion in recipes......."

I fully agree with you (if the gender is right) sir, that there needs to be
a discussion on recipes, specially South Indian, or for the matter any other.
I am kind of a food buff (always been one) and would like to swap recipes
with anyone interested in it.

Could some kind soul put me out off this misery of having American food-
specially burgers and such like.

Thanking you all in advance,
Amit K Dasgupta ( food buff).

P.S. Since Iam a Bengali, could someone send me the recipe to make Fish Curry
(machar jhol), pleeaaasee.

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jan 1993 13:38:45 -0500 (EST)
From: seeta@hub.eng.wayne.edu (Seetamraju Uday Bhaskar Sarma)
Subject: On secularism & India's future - Part 3 of 4

Initially democracy is what the secularists were aiming for. Then they saw,
that the majority community can vote to pulverize all their stupid notions.
And so then, it was respect for the law.  What law ?  Law that can be
amended by a govt voted by a majority and amended by following other laws
that tell U how to modify the 1st. So, now its basic human beliefs, and god
knows what next.

Two communities clash.  The arbitrer was not the supreme court or any
court till the final round was played.  But the secularists deemed themselves
the `moral guides' and the `sitting judges' to the whole drama of the past
decade.  If the law and democracy was really something that was so holy
then why weren't such avenues pursued earlier?  No one knows.

It is a farce being played out to keep the label `uncompromizing'
on hindus.  What prevented the mob-ism that was demonstrated at ayondhya,
and has shown itself in BBY, from having recurred in the past?
Do U sincerely believe, only a secular education can make a peron
tolerant to other religions?  Do U sincerely believe that rules and laws
can stop a person or persons from snatching something that he feels is
denied to him?  Why cant the onus of controlling violence be placed on
each person, and let the person decide.  Do U sincerely belive, that
the average man, unaware of western ideologies will behave like a savage?

If there is a need for a India, as it exists RIGHT now, it is only for the
purpose of security, a la, the herds on the african graaslands.  I am
an optimist, and dont forsee any security problems, to any country in the
sub-continent in the coming future.  200 yrs from now, --- I cant be sure.
Other than security, this concept of india, indian identity, indian charcter
and a whole lot of junk, that comes with today's india are just excuses
for the secularists to maintain a `feeding ground' on which to live.  Cut
their umblical cord.  They are sucking us dry of our culture and the future
that we see for all of us.  A pancayat raj, with villages/cities being hindu
or muslim of their choice, and all living together as a federation or a
fruitful economic collective:- that's what I dream about...

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jan 1993 21:20:28 -0600
From: eeram@unix1.sncc.lsu.edu (Ram Singh)
Subject: Regionalism/Casteism

Dear readers:

Some days back a gentleman ( I can't recall his name ) announced on the net
that he was a Konkani and he requested all other Konkanis in USA to post
their whereabouts on the net.I was sure nobody was going to pay any heed to
his request because I thought that at least after coming here our "desi
juntaa" rises far above such narrow considerations as of caste,region,etc.
But,lo and behold every day ever since I am reading letters of other proud
Konkanis (there was a term like GSB also with which these people described
themselves.) responding happily to our original friend's request.

What if each day a new person comes up representing a new caste or a new
region and posting similar requests ? Is this a healthy trend ? India-Digest
should be used for discussing more serious matters. Otherwise let me the
second person inviting all Rajputs in USA to send their names and addresses
on the net !!! (Pl read "...let me be...")

Cheers,
RP Singh

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jan 1993 18:32:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: JALMEIP7@spanky
Subject: Religion(s) in peril !!!!

Hi folks:
    The other day some dude on the network alluded to the fact that
we (India) are not a "cutter" nation.  That adjective defied comprehension
and despite my best efforts I was unable to grasp its meaning.  I then
speculated if the writer was speaking Hinglish (the Indian version of the
English language) and was using the term "cutter" to refer to the practice
of circumcision followed by the Muslims, Jews, and a host of other groups.
But then I argued, would the writer stoop so low as to expose the paucity
in his vocabulary to communicate what is essentially a straight forward
surgical procedure?  Naw, I don't think so !!!!!
    Some other dude (maybe it was the same guy) also mentioned that we have
to save Hinduism.  Well, save it from what ?  I fail to comprehend as to how
a religion can be in a danger of sorts, especially one that has stood the
test of time (Hello, does a 5000+ year history mean anything ?)  I think we
have been so consumed by our feeling of self-importance that we have really
begin to believe that we, mere mortals, can influence some Darwinian trends
on such an immortal concept as religion.  Get a dose of reality, folks.
Religion will survive you, me, our kids, grandkids, and beyond.  If you
believe in the principles espoused by your religion, it's not an issue to be
ashamed.  It's perfectly appropriate to use cliches such as "Gavre seh koh
hum _____ hain."  But just saying so does not make you a great Muslim or a
great Hindu.  I have never met a person who has prophesed a certain religion
and then in the same breath expressed that he was ashamed to be a Hindu, or
a Muslim, or a Christian. Remember, people should be able to observe the
teachings of your religion reflected in the manner you go about your day-to
-day activities and not in some cheap rhetoric.

James Almeida

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jan 1993 21:02:04 -0500 (EST)
From: talukdar@hal.hahnemann.edu
Subject: Republic Day

Happy Republic Day to all readers!

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jan 1993 17:37:16 -0500
From: Suresh  Subramanian <subramas@mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: Scores at benson & hedges tournament in Australia

Could someone please mail me the summary of the scores in the 3 final matches
of the Benson&Hedges one day cricket tournament between Australia and the
Windies. I would also appreciate it if India-D could give the daily match
scores at the Australian Open Tennis tournament.

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jan 1993 15:09:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Kedarnath Tupil <KPT2372%SRU.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: The cause of the problems in India

Dear netters,
    The main cause of all the problems in India are people like Mr. Shantanu
Sardesai who are intolerant of other communities. I think Mr.Sardesai, who is
a Hindu I presume, fails to understand his own religion which has always
advocated secularism. Stirring up unwaranted sentiments, like  a Hindu India,
makes no sense. Mr Sardesai, today you advocate a Hindu India, what will it be
tomorrow? A Brahmin India, just because of the schedule castes/tribes? India
has always been secular, is secular and will always be secular!

An Indian First,
Kedarnath Tupil.

"Tolerance is the need of the hour, not hate"  <-- my own quotation,
                                                   neat huh! :)

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jan 1993 10:22:28 -0800 (PST)
From: prem@ux5.lbl.gov (shirdi prem)
Subject: Vara Dakshina (Dowry)

>   The Havyaka Brhamins of Karnataka also do not expect, accept
>   dowry. In my life time in India about 30 years I have seen
>   100's of marriage in our community and not a case has risen
>   in which dowry "Varadakshine" word was mentioned.

I dunno what kind of brahmin I am, probably classified under the generic
Smartha group..... but who cares really.  Actually, we _DO_ have a "dowry"
system in our family, but hold your fire for a second!!

The vara-dakshina that I have seen in EVERY family marriage I have
attended comprised of :
                     1.  Nariyal      (one)
                     2.  Haldi        (about 50mg)
                     3.  Kumkum       (about 50mg)
                     4.  Betel Leaves (two)
                     5.  Re.1 coin    (one)

It is largely symbolic, and not unfair in any way, since the
transaction (!) goes both ways...... ie groom->bride and bride->groom.
Actually, the bride comes out tops here, since she gets an expensive
silk saree, while the groom is left holding a dhoti (podavai and veshty,
for the translation junkies. :)

I guess the dowry system started out in all communities in this way,
and then evolved into trading goats, cattle, property and finally, cash.
(Not that that justifies anything)

Prem!
ps. How did you chaps (and chap-inis) find the jobs list I mentioned in
India-D a few weeks ago ??

------------------------------

End of India Interest Group Digest
**********************************
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