From: minhaszt@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Moslems
Date: 1 Jan 93 04:15:59 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati

In article <1992Dec25.045548.24739@fuug.fi> an3923@anon.penet.fi writes:


>I am from Turkey and I noticed that there is something very funny
>about all the world conflicts. ( I am not a practicing moslem)

well irfan, before i start off, i hope you know that the word is "muslim"
not "moslem"
>
>Israel-Palestinian issue ( Moslems Vs Jews)
>Cyprus Problem           ( Moslems Vs Catholics)
>German Ethnic trouble    ( Moslems ( Turks) Vs Germans)
>Bosnian issue            ( Moslems Vs Christians)
>Iraq - Kuwait strife     ( Moslems Vs Moslems)
>Iran - Iraq              ( ditto)
>Iraq Vs Kurds            ( ditto)
>Indian temple issue      ( Moslems Vs Hindus)
>Burmese ethnic problems  ( Moslems Vs Buddhists)
>Malaysian ethnic trouble ( Moslems Vs Chinese)
>Somalian problem         ( Moslems vs Moslems)
>Armenia                  ( Moslems Vs christians)

irfan you cite 13 examples here in isolation of their historical background
which is unfortunate because you would get a different picture of who exactly
is the trouble make in all of these places.

1)israel/palestine - here is some thing irfan, have you heard of the philosophy
of zionism? it is like this, the jew have to have the land of palestine and
everyone else can just fuck off. that is the gist of it. there was this
terrorist organization called irgun and another called stern-gang which loved
to kill palestinian women and children and force them out of there homes. the
possibility of disobedience was death. the leader of irgun was a son of a bitch
by the name of menachem begin, do you know who he was? he was the prime
minister of israel. he was responsible for killing many women and children, and
old men as well. the palestinian trouble is like this. the jews stole land
away from the palestinians through an illegitimate agreement known as the
balfour declaration which stated that the brits have the right to give the land
to the jews. (strange because the brits were not even in control of the land
in the first place). so the struggle has been for people who have been kicked
out of house and home to get there homes back or at least stop being treated
like dogs, kind of like the way blacks are treated in this country and the way
kurds are treated in your secular country. get it irfan?

2)cyprus, do you really want to shoot your own country in the foot irfan?
the turks have been the most conciliatory in this measre and they have dropped
the idea of independance. look at just numbers. how many turks have been killed
compared to how many greeks have been killed and then tell me who is the
trouble maker. remember these are your secular turkish brethren.

3) german ethnic problem, irfan you are citing contradictory evidence to
support your claim. the turks are the victims of the german racism. the turks
are not the aggressors, in fact many of them live in fear for their lives. is
it just me or do i get teh feeling that you don't know what you are talking
about?

4)bosnian problem. now you are really off the wall. the bosnians never did
anything to provoke an attack. they are the ones being killed. serbian women
are not being raped. and bosnian men are not perpetrating ethnic cleansing.
muslims are not the aggressors in this situation either.

5) iraq/kuwait you are again citing a non-example. saddam has no interest in
islam, neither does the emir of kuwait, and the majority of the kuwaitis are
not religious at all. however saddam is not far off in his claim for kuwait, it
used to be a part of iraq. now you must ask yourself. the muslim people of iraq
do not like this guy. let us say that a large minority of iraqis are religious.
now if the religion of islam says do not support dictators (i am making this
assumption solely on the basis that iraqis do not like saddam, i am not using
my knowledge of islam in this case) then saddams being in power is actually a
violation of islamic principles, therefore this has nothing to do with islam.
once again you cite a non-example. also he belongs to the baath party, which
is secular in its charter.

6)iran/iraq same reason. the issue of the govt of iran is complex. do not
believe everything you read in the papers or see on the telly. you don't
believe everything you see about turkey do you? well the same applies for iran.
i don't agree with everything iran does, but as far as being a terrorist state,
forget it.

7)iraq/kurds same thing. don't forget to mention the turkish gov't killing
innocent kurds.

8)indian temple. our mosque was destroyed by hindus because of a fiction. the
bjp has a list of other mosques it is going to destroy if it gets a chance to
because other "gods" were "born" on those cites. as for the ongoing
muslim/hindu conflicts, manoj talk to a woman named fazila dosani, she is a
student at uc, she and her family had to leave india because of some problems.
go find out.

9)burmese problem. don't know enough about it to comment.

10)malay/chinese. this is an example where you are kind of right. i say kind of
because it has nothing to do with religion but race. the malays, though they
are a majority muslim will discriminate against chinese muslims as well as
chinese non-muslims. they will favor malay non-muslims over chinese muslims.
nothing to do with religion.

11)the state of somalia today can be rightly blamed on the us government,
soviet government, american industry and european industry. all in different
ways were in competition for control of somalia, us and ussr wanted control of
the govt. so arms were loaded up to the govt. in the hopes of wooing it one way
or another. industry treated the people like dirt (they are black) and italian
industry especially used it as a dumping ground for nuclear waste. american
industry used it as a dumping ground for toxic chemical waste, and in order to
keep people from thinking too much about there lot, drugs were introduced. i
know a guy, muslim, half white half somali, he tells me that the situation is
like la, guys riding high and flying high killing people for wrist watches and
other non-essential. listen man, once again a non-example is being used.

12)you know, there has been an ongoing discussion on soc.culture.turkish over
how many armenians have killed turkish people in the past century JUST BECAUSE
THEY WERE MUSLIM! what the hell are you trying to prove?!
>
>
>
>	Almost every conceivable problem in the world is caused by moslems.

WRONG!
>Also, undoubtably all the major barbaric regimes in the world are run by
>Moslems ( Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait, Yemen, Iran, Pakistan just to name a few)
WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! Muslim govts are only a few. the real terrorist govt is
the united states. alexander the great once was sailing on his ship and he
caught a pirate. he capture the pirate and asked him, "why do you terrorize the 
seas?" the pirate replied, "why do you terrorize the world?" do you get it?


>and the major terrorist nations ( except Cuba) are all moslem ( Pakistan, 
Iran,
>cyria, Lybia, Jordan). Turkey is the ONLY moslem country which is secular.
>What does this tell us about our religion and our culture? It makes me wonder!
>
>
>Irfan Ahmed
>Sys. Admin., Calico Tech.

it makes me wonder how much of the television you have been watching man you
call yourself a muslim yet you don't even have half of an idea about what the
hell is going on in the muslim world or the recent history of the muslims. you
cited examples that show the opposite of wht you were trying to prove in the
first place. where the hell have you been living, in a cave?! shame on you!
you ignorant! we muslims do not need your kind! do not stab your brothers and
sisters in the back by showing lies. if you want to show how bad islam is show
something that truly comes from islam and then we can discuss. i can not tell
you how angry i am with you. allah please control my anger and please forgive
you.

salam alaikum
zafar