HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: taylor@ccrs.emr.ca (Trevor Taylor)
Subject: Re: Summer solstice celebration
Organization: Canada Centre for Remote Sensing, Ottawa
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 04:49:47 GMT


I'm cuirious are you celebarting the pre-christian tradition ?

If so, are you intending to include a traditional celebration of 
a Beltane sort ????


Just curious 


		TT 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
From: dml@philabs.philips.com (Damian M. Lyons)
Subject: Re: This Favorite Lie Again.
Originator: dml@rabbit
Organization: Autonomous Systems, Philips Labs, Briarcliff Manor, NY
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:30:13 GMT


 spain@galvia.enet.dec.com writes:
 >In article <1992Dec15.175328.25642@philabs.philips.com>, dml@philabs.philips.com (Damian M. Lyons) writes:
 
 >|>I haven't heard anyone raise their voice in justification of
 >|>the creation of NI. Perhaps I missed it, but I suspect
 >|>one would be hard pressed to justify the forceful inclusion
 >|>of 3/4 million people into a statelet in which they were and are a 
 >|>planned minority. This was a blatent move into social manipulation
 >|>of the kind that supports ethnic cleansing. Under this situation
 >|>it takes a hell of a nerve to crow about majority rule. 
 
 >It wasn't a question of forcefully including the nationalist minority.
 >The island had been under British rule.  Ireland was gaining independence.
 >The unionists wanted to remain part of Britain.  They wanted the whole
 >island to remain under British rule.  The creation of Northern Ireland
 >was a compromise.   It was accepted by both governments although it
 >did lead to a Civil War here.  Everyone's hindsight vision is 20/20.
 >Forcing 1 million unionists into a United Ireland is simply not on.
 >There are no easy answers to the curreent problem.
 
 The point I was making is that the creation of NI press-ganged a bunch of
nationalists into a unionist state in which they were then badly treated.
Thats the 20/20 part. Press-ganging a bunch of unionists into a united
Ireland would be just as bad and I haven't argued for that. I have argued
that the British Government needs to take unilateral action to shore up
the rights and voting power of the nationalist minority in NI, as a recompense
for the creation of NI and its subsequent effects. Unilateral action is
the only way around the unionist veto power welded into place when NI was
(specifically) created as a unionist dominated statelet. I also believe that,
failing the takeover of the unionists reins by a bunch of moderates, it is the
only way any progress can ever be made to pacify NI.

Damian.
-- 
_________________________________________________________________
         Damian M. Lyons | x6444 | dml@philabs.philips.com       
_________________________________________________________________
From: newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Kilts
Date: 12 Jan 93 08:25:50 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

katherim@fraser.sfu.ca (Katherine Merle Mason) writes:

>true and restates it etc.  An examination of the primary (not secondary
>ie., summas & histories) sources is definetly in order here.  It is quite
>possible that the law only applied to women and civilian men.

  Well, the Act in full is only about half a page long, much shorter than
the amount of drivel we've created by talking about it.  The first one to
find it and type it in will save us all some time.

mn
From: mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: '45 ( Was: Kilts)
Date: 8 Jan 93 12:19:13 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

In article <katherim.726442679@sfu.ca> katherim@fraser.sfu.ca (Katherine Merle Mason) writes:
>
>Does anyone know if there is a current claimant to the throne in the line
>of Charles Edward Stuart (Bonnie Prince Charlie?).  If there is such a
>person, as I have heard talk, where is (s)he now?
>
As it happens, there was an article on this very subject in
last week's "Spectator". The current claimant to the throne,
employing the depth-first, ordered by sex then by age rule, but
ignoring the 1689 cut-off Catholics rule, is the person who
would also be King of Bavaria if that hadn't been abolished.
Not a direct descendant of Charles Edward Stuart (he had no
legitimate ones), but a direct descendant of Charles I through
one of his daughters, unlike the present monarch whose descent
comes from James I, and is thus well to the right in the search
tree.

Matthew Huntbach
From: mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Kilts
Date: 6 Jan 93 10:59:23 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

In article <726214555.15621@zooid.guild.org> silver.e@zooid.guild.org (Eric Silver) writes:
>Could you please expound upon the term 'given a differencing to use' in
>your last sentence.
>Thanks,
>
Read any book on heraldry. Only the eldest son can use his
father's coat of arms (though even he must difference it while
his father is alive). All other must add something to it to
distinguish their arms from their brothers'. There is a
standard set of differences used, a different set in Scotland
than in England. However, in Scotland their use is enforced by
Lyon King of Arms, whereas in England they are rarely used.

Matthew Huntbach
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: katherim@fraser.sfu.ca (Katherine Merle Mason)
Subject: Re: '45 ( Was: Kilts)
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:37:59 GMT


Does anyone know if there is a current claimant to the throne in the line
of Charles Edward Stuart (Bonnie Prince Charlie?).  If there is such a person,
as I have heard talk, where is (s)he now?

Katherine Merle Mason
From: ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Burns night
Date: 5 Jan 93 03:15:20 GMT
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Not Philips.

In refd article, monet@carson.u.washington.edu (Diana Smith) writes:
>The Seattle Caledonian-St. Andrews Society will be having its annual Burns
>night celebration on Sat. Jan 23 - serving roast beef, chicken,

Glad to see you're keeping it traditional, just what Rabbie and his cronies
would have had if they could've afforded it.

> haggis, nips and tatties (or vegetarian, if you're so inclined).

It's not usual to serve Scotch with the tatties.  Nips (otherwise known as
wee drams) usually come later.  Neeps, of course, are another matter.

Enjoy.
-- 
Ray Dunn at home        |  Beaconsfield, Quebec  |  Phone: (514) 630 3749
ray@philmtl.philips.ca  |  ray@cam.org           |  uunet!sobeco!philmtl!ray
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Irish Books/U.S. Bookshops
From: hooverb@cs.wvu.wvnet.edu (Bruce Hoover,Armstrong)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 19:56:48 GMT
Organization: Concurrent Engineering Research Center
Originator: hooverb@a.cs.wvu.wvnet.edu

From article <1993Jan10.043306.17420@cactus.org>, by tony@cactus.org (Tony J. Hurson):
> Wandering around Austin's many bookshops, I have noticed a huge
> disparity in the availability of Irish literature versus other Irish
> subjects. Generally, Irish literature is very well represented, with
> the modern trinity of Joyce, Beckett and Yeats being the most prevalent
But are these authors in an "Irish Literature" section, or are they
jumped in with literature written in the English language. Or another
question: is the Irish literature all "Anglo-Irish" or do you find
translations of Maurice O'Sullivan, Peig Sayers, Tomas O Crohan, etc. as
well? 

As a parrallel sort of example, many people might buy a book by Farley
Mowat and not really think of it as "Canadian Literature". I just wonder
if the poeple buying the books think of them as Irish or just some sort
of English writing?

> I'd be interested in hearing from other U.S. residents on the 
> quantities and categories of Irish books they find in their local
> bookshops.
>
My experience in most "general interest" bookshops has been that the
main (and sometimes only ) Irish books are those large coffee-table sort
with lots of beautiful pictures and not much else. With titles like
"Castles of Ireland" or some such. Not much knowledge of history gained
from these!

I'm afraid that most of the "serious bookshops I visit are in the
Northeast (Boston, New York, etc.) and these tend to have a fairly large
Irish section, due to the number of fairly large Irish segment in the
population.

Bruce Hoover
From: halpin@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Accents
Date: 9 Jan 93 13:41:28 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <C0JKss.78w@dcs.ed.ac.uk>, morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
writes:

> In article <1993Jan7.202331.11138@vax.oxford.ac.uk> halpin@vax.oxford.ac.uk
writes:

>>I caught a bit of "Whisky Galore" on TV over Christmas, though, and
>>I thought the Barra accent was quite remarkable: softer than much
>>Scots, quite like the south and west of Ireland (and _not_ like
>>relatively adjacent Donegal).
> 
> That is because it's a Gaelic-speaking area.

But so is Donegal (at least in part), and that's what surprised me.

Brendan
From: halpin@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Plastic Slivers found in Canned Guinness
Date: 12 Jan 93 18:19:24 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <1993Jan11.164108.50106@ccvax.ucd.ie>, mntneer@ccvax.ucd.ie writes:
> 
> Aaarrgh!  tepid Guinness.  should be served at 4-5 degrees celcius
> It sometimes helps to mask the pints, that are served some places.
> But they are usually the same pubs that don't cool the Guinness enough.
> 
> Ciaran Ruane

Yep, another person who doesn't like the taste of beer!

Brendan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu
Subject: Irish Servitude
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 00:25:45 GMT

I know that the term "Boss", atleast when used by the Irish Americans of c.1800
was a way to not degrade themselves and call their indentured master, "master"
like the colored slaves.. Basically a way to save Irish Pride..

==
==
Michael Adams alias Ghost Wheel/Morgoth NSMCA@acad3.alaska.edu
From: newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Accents
Date: 8 Jan 93 10:10:39 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

esh2@po.CWRU.Edu (Evelyn S. Hlabse) writes:

>In a previous article, dolonsgh@unix1.tcd.ie (DL) says:

>>Shetland islanders in news reports seemed to be speaking in an accent
>>closer to Northern Ireland than Scotland.
>>Did anyone else notice this?
>>Does anyone know why their accent is like that?
>>
>>Donal O Loingsigh
>>dolonsgh@unix1.tcd.ie
>>
>>
>If you listen even more closely you'll find that the accent is more
>Norwegian than anything else.  The Shetland and Orkney Islands once
>belonged to Norway.  I think they were part of the dowery paid when
>Queen Margaret married the king of Scotland. The accent has a definite
>lilt to it.  I think it is very pleasant but then I'm an Orcadian who
>still has an accent after 30 years in the US.

The Islands in general were settled by Gaels over many centuries.  There
was an overlay of Nordics, heavier in Orkney and Shetland than elsewhere.
Still, the Hebrides must be considered Gaelic much more than Norse, though
for Orkney and Shetland I think the balance is more Nordic, though to what
extent I don't know.
  Giving somebody or some nation an island doesn't change the essential
cultural/linguistic make up of the place!!
  And remember that the accent in Scotland in the east is more Scots
than Gaelic.  There is a wide variety of idiolect in Scotland, and in the`
West it is much more influenced by the softer lilt of the Gael than in the
East.

mn
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: fred@cc.ysu.edu (Fred Ullom)
Subject: Kilts and the '45
Organization: Youngstown State University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:40:54 GMT


With regard to the discussion as to whether there are any laws regarding 
the wearing of a particular tartan, I noticed an article in this month's
Highlander magazine. It is by Alastair Campbell of Airds, Unicorn Pursuivant
of Arms, Lord Lyon Court. He begins:

	Often over the years one has heard people explaining how they
	have "the right' or that they are "entitled" to weaar this or
	that tartan.
	In fact no such right, in any legal sense, exists for them or
	for anyone else. The only considerations which govern the wearing
	of a particular sett are usage and good taste.

He concludes:

	In a word, wear any tartan you like, but if it is not that of the
	clan to which you belong, don't invent a reason for wearing it other
	than you like it!



--
------------------------------------------------------------------------        
Fred S. Ullom                                                                   
Handweaver of tartan cloth, scarves, and sashes
tacon019@ysub.ysu.edu                                                           
Youngstown State University                                                     
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Bill Tennant anecdote
Date: 8 Jan 93 12:26:39 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.


It was announced yesterday the Scots TV mega star Bill Tennant had died
which rekindled hazy recollections of one of Bill's TV blunders which I
don't think has ever made it to "It'll Be Alright On The Night".

It involved Fanny Craddock, a well known TV cook, showing the viewers how 
to make doughnuts after which Bill uttered the phrase.....

"...and I hope your doughnuts turn out like Fanny's"

which in turn was followed by loud guffawing off camera and some rather
wobbly camera work by the camera man.

Was this a true incident or just another urban legend?

Dave

--
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Kilts
From: scimitar@suction.acme.gen.nz (Robert Singers)
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 93 22:16:55 +1300
Organization: Barbed Wire Cat Productions

katherim@fraser.sfu.ca (Katherine Merle Mason) writes:

> The punishment for those found guilty, on the evidence of even one
> witness was six months in jail for the first offence and "transportation"
> for seven years for the second.  

That's just to much.  Ending up in the colonies for wearing tartan.  
Surely sending people to Aussie for that is just over the top.

Robert Singers               | Nothing I say or do should be taken as
scimitar@suction.acme.gen.nz | a reflection of any form of reality or
                             | consensual hallucination.
** It's not my spelling (much) that's faulty.  It's this keyboard! **
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: jsdph@acad3.alaska.edu (Dennis P. Harris)
Subject: Re:  Shetland spill
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41.UAC
Organization: University of Alaska - Fairbanks
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 10:01:00 GMT

i just wanted folks in scotland, and especially the shetlands, to know that
alaskans are expressing their concern, sympathy, and outrage over yet another
tanker disaster.  as a matter of fact, some alaskan spill experts are already
on the way, along with an observer group.

from the radio & tv descriptions here, it sounds like the wind-driven spray has
actually contaminated inland croplands and lochs on the islands.

after all the work local government in the shetlands put into careful planning
for oil development and disaster planning, it must be very frustrating to have
this happen.  alaska studied the work done in the shetlands very carefully in
the course of our planning for oil development, only to have the safeguards
gutted by industry influence on our legislature.

i only hope that the rougher weather and lighter oil means that the effects
won't last as long as they have in prince william sound.  whatever happens, i
hope that local goverment and shetlanders don't let industry propoganda tell
everyone that it's all "cleaned up" or "recovered" when it isn't, like they've
done in alaska.

when you move poisons around 100,000 tons at a time, it's not a matter of if,
but when...

================================================================================
dennis p. harris				  bitnet: jsdph@acad3.alaska.edu

  "The nation that controls magnetism controls the Universe." --- Diet Smith
================================================================================
From: winter@Apple.COM (Patty Winter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Myth about losing U.S. citizenship (was Re: 1 IRE grandparent=CDN/IRE citizenship)
Summary: Don't panic!
Date: 5 Jan 93 18:18:36 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1993Jan3.183809.3236@cabell.vcu.edu> dresler@cabell.vcu.edu (Dan Resler) writes:
>davidson@ccrs.emr.ca (David Davidson) writes:
>
>If you're a US citizen, I believe it is the law that you must inform
>the US government that you are applying for citizenship in another
>country. If you don't, and they find out, I think they can do all
>kinds of nasty things, even possibly stripping you of your US
>citizenship (very unlikely, but possible). 


As Barbara Vaughan and Richard Anstruther noted in their postings,
this is simply NOT true. The U.S. Supreme Court forced the State 
Department years ago to back off on these threats. You have to take
some very specific actions to jeopardize your U.S. citizenship.
Simply having another country's passport isn't one of them.

Besides, I never had to "apply" for Irish citizenship. I was an Irish 
citizen (and a U.S. citizen) the day I was born. The only thing I've
ever applied for is passports from both countries. And yes, I obtained
written information from the U.S. State Department before applying
for the Irish passport, just to make sure it was a cool thing to do.
I recommend the same for anyone interested in the subject.


Patty

-- 

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
    ::   Patty Winter N6BIS	       Internet: winter@apple.com  ::	     
    ::   Sunnyvale, California	       AMPRNet: 44.4.0.44          ::
    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: brenner@well.sf.ca.us (Anita Susan Brenner)
Subject: Fiddlers in L.A. April 17
Keywords: Fiddlers L.A.
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 03:19:02 GMT


   Scottish Fiddlers of Los Angeles
      Spring Concert
    Save the Date: April 17, 1993
From: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Accents
Date: 12 Jan 93 13:30:40 GMT
Reply-To: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <C0ov7q.EBG@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning) writes:
>jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>
>
>>Gruesome fact: I read in the paper this week that the Yorkshire education
>>authority was making a policy of punishing kids for speaking their local
>>dialect in school as recently as 1983.  Presumably this is *still* going
>>on unofficially all over the UK.
>
>Last time I was in the school (about 2 years ago) the posters were still up.
>During my time at school ye goa^t the bel^t fur sayin' 'youse lot'
>Ouch!!


This sort of thing is dead insidious, so it is.

Our wean Rosie is 14 months and learning to speak. She has a tennis ball
which she loves to throw at breakable objects, as this makes adults
scuttle amusingly to and fro. She calls this a "ba".

Her dad speaks more Scots than I do, and he also calls it a "ba". However,
last week he was gently coaching her "baLLL, baLLLL", so that she would
get the "ll" at the end of the word. When I asked him why he was
teaching her to say "ba" in a different way from him, especially as he's
quite determined not to become uneccessarily anglicised himself, he
didn't have an answer, other than "That's how it's spelt".


Of course he didn't say that that's the "correct" way to say it, but I
think that's been really ingrained in us all from childhood. In his
case, he must have got this notion at school, as no-one in his family
would be caught dead saying "ball".



M
-- 
Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
	Thanksgiving For a National Victory (Robert Burns)
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for murther.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8676 soc.culture.british:18547
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: This Favorite Lie Again.
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:21:22 GMT
	<1993Jan5.183013.21612@philabs.philips.com>
	<1993Jan6.101550.6899@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>
	<1993Jan11.183640.4284@philabs.philips.com>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland


Thought for the day: the proportion of Nationalist voters in NI is roughly
the same as the proportion of Tory voters in GB, about 40%.  So maybe we
should just give the Nationalist parties the right to rule NI in perpetuity,
and sod the majority.  This seems like the proper Tory way to tackle the
problem. :-)
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
From: ks5c+@andrew.cmu.edu (Kathleen Marie Shanks)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Dual citizenship
Date: 6 Jan 93 08:41:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.MfGmT0K00UhB426Jda
Organization: Doctoral student, Chemistry, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Does anyone know if someone with Scottish grandparents can get a
Scottish/EC passport?  I know those with an Irish grandparent can, I was
wondering if it worked the same way with Scotland.

Thanks-
Kathleen Shanks
Chemistry Department
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA
From: newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Kilts
Date: 8 Jan 93 09:55:00 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

scimitar@suction.acme.gen.nz (Robert Singers) writes:

>morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay) writes:

>> tartan. The only law that ever existed r.e. Tartan was the one banning
>> it's wearing by anyone, after the 1745 rebellion.

>Yeah I thought I had read something about that.  Sorry I only have a 
>vague idea of european history.  When was the law repealed?  ANd what 
>was the 1745 rebellion?

This is one of the many modern myths.  The Prohibition only outlawed
the wearing of tartan if the person was a male not in the army.  So, in
other words, women or enlisted men could wear it.  And it was repealed
within a few decades.  It wasn't enforced widely, only in a few
rebellious districts.

mn
From: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Accents
Date: 8 Jan 93 15:38:51 GMT
Reply-To: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <1993Jan7.202331.11138@vax.oxford.ac.uk> halpin@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>In article <dolonsgh.726424392@unix1.tcd.ie>, dolonsgh@unix1.tcd.ie
>(DL) writes:
>> Shetland islanders in news reports seemed to be speaking in an accent
>> closer to Northern Ireland than Scotland.
>> Did anyone else notice this?
>> Does anyone know why their accent is like that?
>
>Contrarily, it struck me that there was a slight touch of
>Scandinavian in their accents but that might have been suggestion.

Propbably was. The Shetlanders sound a bit like refined Buckie Farmers
to me :-), though my ear or accents has been questioned once or twice on
this group!

>
>I caught a bit of "Whisky Galore" on TV over Christmas, though, and
>I thought the Barra accent was quite remarkable: softer than much
>Scots, quite like the south and west of Ireland (and _not_ like
>relatively adjacent Donegal).

That is because it's a Gaelic-speaking area.

Accent varies from island to island though I wouldn't
say even Lewis people have NI accents..

M


-- 
Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
	Thanksgiving For a National Victory (Robert Burns)
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for murther.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic