HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: karsten@nic.gac.edu (Karsten Hendrick)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: multiple opponents; combat vs. self-defense
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:28:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: gacvx2.1992Apr14.112900.879

In article <1992Apr13.213202.10718@cs.brown.edu>  writes:

> >On the battlefield, you want to ensure that it is safe to turn your back 
> >on your opponent, and you want to accomplish this as quickly as possible. 
 
 
>   In many martial arts, it is true that against multiple opponents
>   the strategy is to take them out as quickly as possible, in rapid
>   succession.  This strategy is especially true for percussion-effect arts.
 
>   If, however, you have two attackers attacking *simultaneously*, they
>   are not going to do this.  They are probably going to crowd you real 
>   close, then jump on you together.  You can hit one, but then you will
>   be in a grappling match with the other almost immediately.  And if you
>   haven't taken the first one out ("one punch = one kill"), then it's
>   two on one (actually "two on top of" one).

So, don't let them crowd you.  Lunge in on one and attack, hopefully
at least temporarily disabling that one, with a strike to the throat, eye-
gouge, kneestrike in the groin, etc.  Then it is one-on-one.  Total and
spontaneous aggression has the effect of taking even multiple attackers
by suprise.  My best advice for multiple attackers is to run like hell
and hope they're slower.  That approach would have saved me a badly
bruised rib once.

Karsten Hendrick
karsten@nic.gac.edu
karsten@lavatch.gac.edu
    
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: Dakin Burdick <burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Bruce flame
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 15:21:04 -0500

In article <1992Apr11.045905.20692@uwm.edu> ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty) writes:
>On the contrary I could give you plenty of accounts of people who
>knew Bruce and could back up that all his kicks were powerfull.

Certainly he had an excellent side kick, and his roundhouse had good
power, although not excellent height.

>I'd be interested in where your getting your info.

His books and movies.

>I can also suply photograhs of the many "advanced" kicks.

Please do.  I've never seen any, but that doesn't mean they don't 
exist.


>>The chinese stylist they got
>>to stand in for him on the Game of Death fight scenes that had 
>>not been filmed is a much better kicker (although he does not
>>have Bruce's charisma; but then, who does?).  
>
>I believe that was Bruce Li.

Nope (unless the guy later changed his name).  When I get time, I'll
dig out the guy's name.

  As for who was a better kicker, I think
>that's kind of hard to tell from a movie, and since you've never met
>either of them in person or see either of them fight.........

Right.  All I can do is judge their kicks from the movies.  Bruce's 
replacement had some of Bruce's hand techniques down, but also had
a jump back-spin kick that was head level and beautiful.


>Only those who knew Ed, or Bruce, or Morihei
>Ueshiba, or any other departed great martial artists can truly say
>they were this or that.  And unless we were lucky enough to have actually
>known these people, all we can do is go by what other these other people
>tell us.

Certainly those who knew Bruce should be given priority, but it is
possible for others to comment on his techniques and even his
personality; after all that's what history is all about -- the 
reinterpretation of old data.

I'm also kind of amused that you think I'm flaming Bruce.  I said his
fighting style was excellent for self-defense, his hand techniques 
were good, he had more charisma than any other martial arts actor
since, and he was an important influence on martial arts development
in the U.S..  All I said was that his high kicks were not as good
as those of modern competitors, which is understandable given his 
martial arts philosophy and background as a member of a street gang
(heh-heh!  another flame war!).  Bruce was not a god, just real,
real close.  :)

Dakin
burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
From: merylf@brtph115.bnr.ca (Meryl W. Freeman)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Shoulder exercise (was: Re: Bruce Lee on...)
Summary: Tight shoulders question
Keywords: shoulders, exercises, ouch
Date: 10 Apr 92 13:26:15 GMT
Organization: Bell Northern Research Inc.

In article <43325@as0c.sei.cmu.edu> psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:
>
>extensions of what the master has already provided.  For example, my teacher
>emphasizes that the shoulder joints *must* be supple.  Compared to his, mine
>are like stiff clay BUT, just I happen to meet a woman named Oopalie, who is
>one of India's most famous classical dancers, and who, 5 years ago, took up
>instruction in an Indian martial art called Cho (sp? rhymes with "joe").
>Anyway, her "guru" (as she calls him) taught her a specific exercise intended
>to loosed the shoulder joints.  Of course now I use it.  This is my extension.

Can you please describe this exercise? Enquiring minds and tight shoulders
want to know...

Thanks,

Meryl

________________________________________
Sorry, no e-mail. Please post responses.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe)
Subject: Re: Which is most effective? Point/Edge weapons.
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 06:33:06 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Keywords: chinese broadswords, and straightswords...

In article <1992Apr12.025605.26900@eng.umd.edu> doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen) writes:
>	it's interesting, but the broadswords have the grooves for the blood
>and vacuum problem relief, but none of my straightswords have them.  the only
>speculation that comes to mind is that the straightsword, being a more elegant
>and higher level of weapon, would be used more for the cutting than the 
>stabbing aspect.

The one straight-sword form that I know has mostly cuts (like carving meat),
but there several stabs.  Most of them involve inserting the blade inside
the collarbone vertically and stabbing straight down.  Perhaps the suction
isn't as bad on this particular stab...

The next form I am likely to learn of this type (other than the T'ai Chi
sword form) is called "Skewer the Sun Sword".  I've seen it, but don't
remember it.  Sounds like a stabber to me, though...

D

-- 
========================================================================
Dave Smythe   N6XLP    dsmythe@netcom.com (also dsmythe@cs.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: Dakin Burdick <burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Here's one for ya... (Was Re: 2 questions. Please read.)
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: rec
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 15:28:49 -0500

In article <1992Apr11.193734.19851@cs.yale.edu> liu-edward@CS.YALE.EDU (Edward Liu) writes:
>
>   Here's one that just occurred to me, and which is going to get inserted
>(someplace) into the Greatest Martial Arts Movie Ever Made (tm) screenplay (if
>I ever get around to actually writing it...:-):
>
>   You're on Rollerblades.  You get attacked by about six guys.  How do you
>defend yourself?

didn't Jackie Chan do this with roller skates in "The Big Brawl"?

Dakin
burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bud@ms.uky.edu (William K Glunt)
Subject: Re: Breaking
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1992 20:57:03 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
X-Bytes: 

In article <willimsa.702504201@unix1.tcd.ie> willimsa@unix1.tcd.ie (Gavin Williams) writes:
>Some of you out there may remember a passage in Funakoshi Sensei's book,
>'My Way of Life'.  In it he refers to any people who boast about breaking and
>use it, among other things, as a demonstration of skill.  He says that they 
>are very much distanced from the true meaning of Karate.  (I can get the actual
>quote if there is enough interest.)
>
>My question is, how would you reconcile this with the practice among certain
>forms of Martial Arts (I know TKD does it and have heard that others may), of
>breaking boards and blocks etc. as part of the proficiency examinations for 
>gradings and advancement?
>
>

 I would not reconcile it.

Osu!

Bud

-- 
Dr. William K Glunt     | Are you ABNORMAL?
************************| Then you are probably better than most people!
U of Kentucky math dept | Are alien space monsters bringing a STARTLING NEW
home phone 606 258 8864 | WORLD?  from _The book of the SubGenius_
From: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Black Belt
Date: 9 Apr 92 19:09:47 GMT
Reply-To: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt)
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center

> I deeply respect GRANDMASTER RHEE
>>Me too.  But what do you think about this alleged one-year-black-belt 
scheme of his?  Does this square with your recollection of the 
pace of advancement for the typical student during your time with the 
system? 

I saw more than a few students go to BB in 2 years and JR BBs were
fairly formidable in this [1976 - 78] time frame.  So all they have
to do is double the efficiency of instrruction :-)  

The original poster did repost his [G.M. Rhee's] exact words
which in context make a lot more sense to me.  Anywho the JR system
if you bought the black belt package (chuckle chuckle) was a 3 year
package.

Anywho, I don't have a problem with G.M. Rhee having a GOAL of 
designing a ciriculum that produces a BB in 12 months.  I have
a GOAL of having a pretty back hook kick, now seriously folks
which is more unlikely?

I mentioned before that he has made a lot of contributions to the
sport.  I attended during the time there was only one form/kata/poomse
to black belt (exodus).  FLAME all you want, but the point is it got
folks attention (he has added quite a few more now BTW).  He ditched
the ol "controlled sparring" in favor of safety equipment "safe-t-chops"
and all that (predates rheemax you youngins).  So I can't say
absolutely he can't engineer such a program.

Anywho it really doesn't matter.  MA is a study for life, while you
train you get better, if you quit (even for a week in my case) it
starts to go away.

===================================================================
   ** my dream: voice, video, data, 3 services, 1 network **
===================================================================

Stephen Northcutt (snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil)     Networks Program Manager
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bud@ms.uky.edu (William K Glunt)
Subject: Re: What's the point?
    <8duObqS00iU4MOtXV9@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:40:29 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
X-Bytes: 

In article <8duObqS00iU4MOtXV9@andrew.cmu.edu> Stephen Chan <sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>	Hopefully the fact that I didn't carry a pitchfork and try to
>steal her baby gave her a new perspective. She was nice lady, and we
>got along well - even though I'm one of those MA cultists, and, just
>as bad, a Catholic!

 No pitchfork???? Blow these people's minds...get a pair of sai!

 Heh heh.

Bud
-- 
Dr. William K Glunt     | Are you ABNORMAL?
************************| Then you are probably better than most people!
U of Kentucky math dept | Are alien space monsters bringing a STARTLING NEW
home phone 606 258 8864 | WORLD?  from _The book of the SubGenius_
From: acevedo@athena.mit.edu (Gabriel)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Bruce flame
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:23:08 GMT
	<1992Apr13.034939.6557@psych.psy.uq.oz.au>
	<1992Apr13.03939.4115@ms.uky.edu>
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <1992Apr13.03939.4115@ms.uky.edu> bud@ms.uky.edu (William K Glunt) writes:

    Wait!!! Wait!!!!

    The Scene: A large, well lit ballroom.  

    Fred Astair: 'I'm dancing in the rain, just dancing in the rain,
		  what a wonderfull feeling, I'm smiling again....'
	  Fred breaks in a tapdance:

	  Tip tip tip tap tappity tappity tap.

Actually, if this is supposed to be from "Singing in the Rain", it's
Grace Kelly (sp?), I believe, singing "I'm singing in the rain..."

   Suddenly, as Fred continues his girations, a spare figure dressed
   from head to toe in black drops from the chandelier, landing in a
   ninja-like pose....

I don't like musicals.  However, if anyone has a copy of "Singing in the
Rain" where this happens, please ship it to me.   :)
--
Raul Acevedo
acevedo@Athena.MIT.EDU

"Remember, Information is not knowledge; Knowledge is not Wisdom;
Wisdom is not truth; Truth is not beauty; Beauty is not love;
Love is not music; Music is the best."
	 - Frank Zappa
From: rja@batcomfs.Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: have you heard of...
Date: 9 Apr 92 22:22:11 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: batcomfs

In article <1992Apr9.211208.3726@gtephx.UUCP> rakoczynskij@gtephx.UUCP (Jurek Rakoczynski) writes:
>In article <IdstE7W00UoJNWDI5s@andrew.cmu.edu>, sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stephen Chan) writes:
>> rja@batcomfs.Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) writes:
>> >     IMHO, cop type training is usually not as good as the detailed
>> >     martial arts training upon which it is often based.  And it's expensive
>> >     to boot.
>> 
>> 	I read an article recently about Police Training, and one San
>> Soo instructor in CA said that police tactics were often "watered
>> down" versions of the original brutal MA techniques. He then made the
>> comparison to prescription drugs - if you take less than the
>> prescribed dosage, it probably won't work, and it may end up making
>> things worse.
>I have been on both sides on Police training; learning and teaching.
>It is misleading if you think that you need to learn a martial art. 
>The training *should* be focused on effectively learning selected
>techniques.  Especially since training is of a limited period, and
>may be rarely refreshed.
>
>In a learning mode, I learned techniques not usually taught in MA's. 
>For example, how do you remove someone from a car whose hands are
>locked on the wheel and they refuse to move.  Try it at home!  It's
>not as easy as you would think.

    *IF* I had occasion to do this, which is unlikely, I would probably
    use pain compliance techniques using the nerves in the brachial
    plexus, or the various areas in and around the jaw/face, either with
    my ASP mini-baton or with my fingers.  Or, I'd apply my Hiatt hinged
    handcuffs to one of the arms and use pain compliance to remove him.
    Of course, you might say these are cop type training, even though
    I learned the PPS stuff from my Kenpo instructor.
>
>Teaching police, especially if it's a short 6-8 week, 1-2 days/week
>course, requires you to teach them, and have them practice something,
>that they will remember a few months after the course ends.  I've
>failed, if I teach them 10 things and they can't do anything well.

    Yes, but look at PR-24 and/or handcuff training.  The manual has
    dozens of techniques, but ultimately the cops ending up using
    the PR-24 as a flail (witness Rodney King), or use wrestling
    techniques to try and apply cuffs (or they get injured/killed
    while trying to apply cuffs).
>
>If there is some interest in (my opinion) on the subject, I'll
>follow-up as time allows.

    In spite of my comments :-), I'm definately interested.
--
    Robert Allen, rja@sun.com		DISCLAIMER: I said it, not my company.

    "Traditionalists often study what is taught, not what there is to create."
			     - Ed Parker, Grandmaster, American Kenpo.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: gumby@next08cville.wam.umd.edu (Daniel David Reynolds)
Subject: Re: Choosing a martial art - effectiveness?
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 01:53:19 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.105517.1540@brandonu.ca> lampij@brandonu.ca writes:
> In article <31037@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk>, tk@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Tommy Kelly)  
writes:
 
> > I want to learn an effective method of unarmed self-defence - period.


     If you ever get a chance to come to Maryland, let me know, and I will  
show you a style which is exactly that.  It is called Tai Jutsu, developed  
by Will Maier and his teacher, Stephen K. Hayes, with input from their  
teacher, the 32 grandmaster of Togakure-Ryu Ninjutsu, Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi.   
Tai Jutsu is only tought in two schools in the world (both in Maryland),  
but it will give you a feeling of what an effective self defense style is  
like.  I am an instructor there, and will be happy to mail you some  
information on the style.  



-Gumby
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Various
Date: 15 Apr 92 13:14:38 GMT
Organization: Software Engineering Institute

>15-Apr-92 02:44 sworking@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scott Workinger) Re: Multiple...

>I bring up the story because, although your point looks good in print, it
>seems somewhat simplistic based upon actual experience.  That's a problem with
>a lot of the discussion on this newsgroup.  Trying to reduce a discussion of
>martial arts to a printed medium is strained, at best.  

I really appreciate this comment.

>Once, early in my
>training, I asked my teacher about 'listening energy.'  (A term from the
>combat application of Tai Chi) He responded, 'That's not for you to know.'  At
>that point in my training, I had not had the experience.  Without the
>experience, discussion was meaningless.  ----------

My teacher was the same about discussing "chi" when he first came to the U.S.
He simply wouldn't discuss it because he knew that it was pointless.  There
were also many kinds of internal movements he wouldn't discuss either.  I
worry now that because he has discovered American's eagerness to talk about
"the grand and mystical" chi, he will talk about it anyway--to assuage his
audience.  He still won't bother talking about most of his more subtle
gestures with people though, because he knows there is a ton of development to
go on before they can even think about movements that subtle. 

I used to rankle, and now enjoy running into the proverbial "quick study" who
actually believe they can grasp what's going on after one or two lessons.
They are appallingly frequent in their appearances, but at least they give me
quite a hoot.

I also like the new kids who have studied for about 2 months and are an
unceasing font of suggestions to other who have practiced long years ahead of
them.  Another hoot.  

In light of them I always like to think of Nolan Bushnell's comment:

	"Ideas are shit.  Implementation is everything."

In other words, it would be a great idea to be able to fit a lifetime fuel
supply for a car into a package the size of a pack of gum wouldn't it?
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd)
Subject: Re: Question on Musashi
Organization: University of Utah
	<kugrl5INN3uf@male.EBay.Sun.COM>
Distribution: na
Date: 13 Apr 92 10:27:42

In article <kugrl5INN3uf@male.EBay.Sun.COM> scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM (David Scheid) writes:

   In article 25447@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu, izar@shuldig.huji.ac.il (Izar Tarandach) writes:
   >	I remember Sensei comenting that Musashi was twice defeated
   >while wandering in search for duels, and that one of the times it
   >was by a ninja using a war fan (a metal fan, not a guy that likes
   >war...). Having found no reference to this in the Go Rin No Sho, I
   >turn to the Net-wisdom in search for an answer: does anybody knows
   >the story, and also the other defeat ?

   Musashi was defeated only once. It was by Muso Gonnosuke of Jo-jutsu
   fame. Gonnosuke created the Shindo Muso-Ryu based upon his study of
   the Jo. (He did not like the Bo, feeling it too long and awkward.)

   In the book, "Musashi", there are two duals with Gonnosuke (as I recall).
   The first did not fare well for Muso as he was using the Bo. He took
   the experience he gained from his initial combat and applied it to the
   Jo. A few years went by and again he and Musashi dueled. Again, he felt
   Musashi's sword near his belly and declared himself once again the loser.
   "Not so!" declared Musashi, who open his shirt and showed Muso the mark
   on his chest where the Jo struck. If it had been real, that blow would
   have been a killing strike & Musashi's sword would never have completed
   it's path.

i would hesitate to take eiji yoshikawa's book "musashi" as a
completely reliable source of information on the life of miyamoto
musashi.  yoshikawa was a novelist, and while he stuck to the facts
inasmuch as they were known to him, he did make up a great deal to
fill in the gaps.

i have read many conflicting accounts of musashi's exploits from
different sources.  one source claims that gonnosuke pestered musashi
to have a bout with him until musashi picked up a stick and whacked
gonnosuke with it.  gonnosuke then went away.

still another account states that musashi fought yoshioka kempo, and
lost.  another suggests that musashi's father lost to yoshioka kempo,
and this is the cause of musashi's feud with the yoshioka family.

there is a high degree of myth associated with many of japan's heroes
of swordsmanship.

--
jonathan byrd
jon@apollo.med.utah.edu
Organization: Comp & Comm - Telecommunications, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 22:53:18 -0400 
From: Stephen Chan <sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Crush and maim (was: How to choose...)
	<1992Apr14.160346.934@mcs.anl.gov>

sasso@flounder.phy.anl.gov (John F. Sasso) writes:
> I have never heard an Aikidoka say that he could maim or mulilate if
> he wanted to.  I've heard Aikidoka say that they could maim or mutilate
> if they HAD to.  Oh, this is a huge difference!
> 

	Weeeeeeeeeelllllll...
	I've known aikidoka who talk about using an irimi-nage variant
where you drop uke's neck on your knee, or koshi-nage them onto some
sharp object on the ground.
	Not a trace of remorse either...tsk tsk...

> However, we would like the respect that we believe any true martial
> art deserves.
> 
> I detect a distinct lack of respect for my art in your postings.
> I feel compelled to respond to that, yes.

	Actually I have to agree with Michael Robinson. He makes
Aikido out to be the sweet, nice guy of the martial arts world, and
folks kind of assume that means that Aikido is the wimpy, girly-man
of the martial-arts.

	Okay, I'll be the first to confess to a male insecurity thing:
secretly, deep down inside, when people tell me that I'm a "nice guy"
I always feel that it implies I'm soft and wimpy. Some (perhaps even
most) of the guys I know don't like to be known as _nice_guys_ or
_sensitive_guys_ - it kind of implies that you're a wimpy pushover.
	Its a guy thing.

	Wow...that was traumatic. I think I'll have to do a few quick
pushups convince myself that I'm not wimpy & soft.
	Let's see, what can I do to bolster my sense of masculinity?
drink some beer, play with power tools, lift weights, yeah, that's
what I need...

	But first, I have to collect my laundry :-)

Stephen Y. Chan		Programmer Analyst	CMU Telecommunications
stevec+@cmu.edu		(412)268-5115 [me] 	(412)268-4987 [FAX]
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner)
Subject: Re: Taekwondo
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 7 Apr 92 19:26:30 CDT

In article <MARY.92Apr6093724@martinique.Cayman.COM> mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros) writes:
>
>I agree re: TKD Times, but I read the first issue of Inside Taekwondo and
>thought it was solid Cheez Whiz (Velveeta?).  Jumping turning side kick
>to the head as a counter to a reverse punch, INDEED!  

   .... too simple for ya, right, Mary?

-Lauren