HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: SFINE00@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU (Fineman, Stephen Elliot)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.marching vs rec.arts.marching
Date: 5 Oct 92 15:33:10 GMT
Organization: Rice University

In article <1992Oct4.151911.16327@vdbsan>
dawson@vdbsan (Willard Dawson) writes:
 
>Really, that's a bit carried away, but you get the ideas, surely?  At the
>risk of pissing on your (collective) parade, the drum corps community has
>long had a fallacious idea that they were doing something significantly
>different from the band crowd.  That's just plain wrong.  Why should we
>continue to foster this misconception?  Drum and bugle corps are, in the
>simplest of analyses, just one of many kinds of marching band, which are
>in turn a flavor of military musical performing group.  To what degree
>they are military is another matter, best left for later discussion...
 
This is exactly the kind of attitude we drum-corps types are trying to change.
On the surface, both marching bands and drum corps consist of a bunch of people
running around on a field (with varying degrees of precision) playing music.
But experienced fans can definitely tell the difference.  A marching band
simply does not have the time to develop to the level of a drum corps.  Stu-
dents have other demands, whereas drum corps is life for an entire summer.
In addition, drum corps have much higher budgets, larger (and more experienced)
creative and technical staffs, and better (or at least more select) performers.
I don't mean to put down high school bands, but to ignore the significant un-
derlying differences between them and drumcorps would be folly.  This (IMHO) is
the opinion of most of the readers of alt.drumcorps and is what makes us drum
corps fans.  There _is_ a significant distinction between corps and bands, and
it's more than woodwinds and G bell-front bugles.  This is why I support the
creation of     rec.[arts].marching.drumcorps
and             rec.[arts].marching.misc
 
--             Steve (sfine00@ricevm1.rice.edu)
               Crossmen '92 - Invading the top six!
               Crossmen '93 - Songs for Comet Kohoutek?
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: pae@teal.csn.org (Phil Earnhardt)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.marching
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:30:45 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.225149.15958@husc3.harvard.edu> fath1@husc10.harvard.edu (Michael Fath) writes:
>In article <BvAK0n.C9B@uunet.uu.net> pae@blackcat.stortek.com (Phil Earnhardt) writes:
>>Request for Discussion
>>
>>Newsgroup: rec.arts.marching
>>Purpose: Discussion of Drum & Bugle Corps, Bands, and Color Guards [...]

Please edit out uncessary material from your follow-ups. It was not necessary
to include the entire RFD in your response.

>I strongly favor a name like:
>
>rec.arts.drumcorps
>or
>rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
>
>instead of rec.arts.marching.

What's your concern here? Do you feel that people won't be able to find the
group? New users can locate the purpose of groups by looking at
news.announce.newusers. New News readers should indeed be subscribing to this
list!

>While I understand the desire to be inclusive of bands and colorguard, I
>believe that a name like rec.arts.marching will be too obscure for people
>to follow.

In the spirit of USENET news, I'd like for our group to case as wide a net as
possible. And the vocabulary of both fans and members of drum corps, marching
bands, and color guards certainly associates "marching" with the activity. It
really is not an exercise in obfuscation.

>Phil had mentioned earlier that he could remind people that
>rec.arts.marching was a drumcorps discussion group by posting reminders
>to alt.drumcorps periodically.  Unfortunately, this will not work for those
>people who do not get alt. newsgroups.  And one of our goals for creating
>rec.arts.drumcorps is to extend our readership to people without alt access.

No matter what you do, there will still be people who will not find the group.

>I argue that rec.arts.marching is not a preferable name because it is not
>informative enough.  I suggest instead that two groups be created:
>rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
>rec.arts.marching.bands

I'd suggest instead:

rec.arts.marching.drumcorps and
rec.arts.marching.misc

as a general-purpose place to hold all other discussion. With these two
groups, you could include colorguards. If, in the future, there sufficient
traffic in either colorguard or marching bands to merit a separate group, it
could be created at that time. For now, I don't believe bands merit a separate
newsgroup, based on our traffic history.

Would you like the RFD altered to be for r.a.m.drumcorps AND r.a.m.misc?

>Michael Fath

--phil
From: bruce@supr.scm.liv.ac.uk (Bruce Stephens)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Straw POLL soc.religion.quaker
Date: 30 Sep 92 14:35:02 GMT
Organization: Centre for Mathematical Software Research, Univ. Liverpool, UK

>>>>> On 28 Sep 92 01:55:11 GMT, andyrose@netcom.com (San Francisco Fractal Factory) said:

> soc.religion.quaker - unmoderated
> soc.religion.quaker - moderated 
> talk.religion.quaker - unmoderated

> If we're going to burn by letting the doors
> open, it certainly wouldn't be the first time,
> nor the last, and so what anyway, we can shut
> the doors later.

Well, changing from unmoderated to moderated and vice versa seems to
be non-trivial.

My suggestion is for a moderated soc.religion.quaker, but (initially,
and hopefully always) moderated in the way Russ Nelson has suggested:
not at all.

--
Bruce Stephens
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Subject: Re: RFD sci.hpv/rec.bicycles.hpv
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 23:28:38 GMT

In article <16873E18D.M23231@mwvm.mitre.org> M23231@mwvm.mitre.org writes:
> 
>I would be for this. I don't care whether it comes under sci.hpv or rec.bicycle
>s.hpv--however, it seem to me that what is being discussed is more like science
>than like rec. Then, too, if it were under sci.hpv there wouldn't be a tendency
> for uninterested but curious browsers from the rec.bicycles.xxx groups to cras
>h the discussion and derail it with side issues.

Is this an attempt to protect the "pure" hpv discussions from being
corrupted by everyday cycling topics?  Don't forget - bicycles are,
and will always remain, the primary human-powered vehicles.  So trying
to establish a hard division between hpv and cycling strikes me as
kind of strange - if hpv discussions don't include my commuting to
work, I have no idea what you have in mind.

The Rhealist - Rheal Nadeau - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: fineberg@win31.nas.nasa.gov (Samuel A. Fineberg)
Subject: Re: RESULT: comp.sys.stratus passes 192:11
Organization: CSC, NASA Ames Research Center, NAS Division
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 22:41:00 GMT
Reply-To: fineberg@nas.nasa.gov

Why don't you just make the newsgroup internal to Stratus since almost every
yes vote came from there.

Sam

P.S., What is a Stratus????
From: hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.frp.board
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:18:32 GMT
Organization: negligable

I agree about 95% w/ the summary of the situation given above, but...

Yes, rec.games.mecha is pretty darned specific, but I think it covers
the original intent of this split.  It would not seem to include the
Warhammer 40k game, however.  I am not certain that this is a bad idea
since there may very well be subjects in common to Battletech and Robotech
(the two mecha-games I can think of off the top of my head) that would
probably not relate much to Warhammer40k.  

IMO rec.games.armored-combat is a good second choice, but I prefer
the slightly more specific rec.games.mecha just because it IS more
specific, and in the direction I (personally) am inclined to go.

Are the Warhammer 40k discussions in rec.games.board (or is it
r.g.frp?) as big a percentage as the mecha (btech) articles?

note: I don't get rec.games.* at this site, but if rec.games.mecha
became a reality I would add that one specifically (fortunately I
happen to be the sysadmin as well as a btech-fan.... :)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
But I am frightened for you, children,		|
that the life that we are living is in vain,	|	-Richard Hartman	
and the sunshine we've been waiting for		|	hartman@uLogic.COM
has turned to rain....				|
From: hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.frp.board
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:05:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: ulogic.327
Organization: negligable

I actually think that a rec.games.btech could be supported since
there are so many varieties of BattleTech-derived games out there
(the aforemention battletech centers w/ large-scale simulators,
the computer-based games etc, etc (heck, if you toss in the BattleTech
novels mebbe we should go for rec.battletech and get it out of the "games"
sub-tree... :) ).  

But rec.games.mecha is slightly more generic, and in general we're 
supposed to be as generic as possible w/ the group names, so I would
support it.

But _bear_in_mind_ that this group should _not_ be limited only to the
board-game versions of the mecha games (although I expect that's what
the majority of articles would be about).


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
And the men who hold high places	|
must be the ones who start		|	-Richard Hartman	
to mold a new reality			|	hartman@uLogic.COM
closer to the heart!			|
From: rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: r.m.bluenote --> r.m.jazz + r.m.blues (was: rec.music.jazz)
Date: 28 Sep 92 00:07:20 GMT
Organization: Cardiothoracic Imaging Research Center

In article <RSHAPIRO.92Sep26114916@kariba.bbn.com> rshapiro@bbn.com (Richard Shapiro) writes:
>In article <90514@netnews.upenn.edu> rsk@sequoia.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec) writes:
>   I categorically disagree with this. 
>
>I'd like to see a demonstration of why blues is closer to jazz than it
>is to, say, rock and roll. Not another categorical assertion; a demonstration.

I simply met your assertion with one of my own.  You provided no justification;
neither did I.  I will be happy to state my justification after I read yours.
To refresh your memory, you said:

	"There is no special musical relationship between jazz and blues
	(ie as opposed to, say, the relationship between rock and blues,
	which is at least as close); the current group includes both for
	purely historical reasons."

>   >And most important: THERE IS NO CROSS DISCUSSION on
>   >r.m.bluenote between the jazz articles and the blues articles.
>
>   This is flatly wrong.  If you like, I will be happy to pull numerous
>   articles from my personal archives of the group which demonstrate
>   extensive cross discussion between jazz and blues topics.
>
>I don't want you to pull articles, but I'd very much like to see a
>summary of this cross-discussion.

Fine.  I have several hundred articles (on numerous topics) stashed
in my archive.  I just went through them and tried to sort them out
by topic. The results::

	Articles pretty clearly about jazz: 255 articles
	Articles pretty clearly about blues: 146 articles
		(The 255/146 ratio probably reflects my predilection
		for the blues; the jazz/blues articles ratio over
		the last five years is probably 6/1 or so.)
	Articles about crossover topics: 117
	Articles which are not about jazz or blues or both: 23
	Article that I couldn't decide how to file: 8

---Rsk
From: mcinnisj@Software.Mitel.COM (Jim McInnis)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Proposal:alt.guitar.bass.tab
Date: 5 Oct 92 19:30:11 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

I'm in favor of this type of news group. I would use it often.


Jim 

Newsgroups: news.groups
From: mspace@netcom.com (Brian Hall)
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL: MacApp group name
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 22:27:25 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

werner@soe.berkeley.edu (John Werner) writes:
>Group Name                          | Your vote  ("F", "Y", or "N")
>comp.sys.mac.macapp3                | N
>comp.sys.mac.programmer.macapp3     | Y
>comp.sys.mac.oop.macapp3            | F
>comp.sys.mac.frameworks.macapp3     | N
>comp.sys.mac.programmer.oop.macapp3 | N

>----------------------------------------

I would not read a MacApp 3 group, but I do subscribe to TCL-Talk and
would like to see that become part of the csm hierarchy.
-- 

 \ | /   | Brian Hall                 mspace@netcom.com
 - : -   | Mark/Space Softworks       Applelink: markspace
  /|\    |                            America Online: MarkSpace
 |-+-|   |
/-\|/-\  | PUI. Programming Under the Influence.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: wlieftin@cs.vu.nl (Liefting W)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.scouting.activities, rec.scouting.policy
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 09:56:34 GMT

macman@bernina.ethz.ch (Danny Schwendener) writes:

>>->We want a newsgroup in which we can share ideas about 
>>->activities, programs, campouts etc.

>>Excuse me, but there is NOTHING stopping you from discussing these aspects
>>of Scouting in the current newsgroup.

>John is absolutely right. Nothing prevents someone to post how-to issues
>on rec.scouting (heaven forbid). But the mail flow I received during
>the past five months show that the proportion of how-to issues vs.
>discussions was for many too small to make it worth browsing through
>the postings. I'd prefer a group with very low traffic but a high
>impact for an international audience to a group with the same messages
>buried in a flow of messages with national scope.

This is EXACTLY what I tried to point out!
I think rec.scouting.activities can me such a high-impact-group.

>It's similar to the problem I have with scouts-l (for those who know that
>mailing list). Nearly 99% of the postings there are completely useless
>for me as a non-BSA leader. However, on rare occasions, someone posts a
>message that puffs all my accumulated frustration away, and motivates me
>to stay on that mailing list despite all the time I'm losing by hand
>sorting the incoming mail.

Personal opinion: 90% of the subscribers to rec.scouting now have the
same problem..........

>-- Danny Schwendener         macman@bernina.ethz.ch
>   Wolfsmeute Nidau/Glockenhof, Sihlstr. 33, CH-8001 Zurich, Switzerland
>   m.h.c. Troop 14, San Francisco

Wouter Liefting
wlieftin@cs.vu.nl
From: dimitri@dutiws.tudelft.nl (Dimitri Tischenko)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: comp.sys.next.bugs -- bad name
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:20:41 GMT
Organization: Delft University of Technology

In article <+s21Hhq&-9@atlantis.psu.edu> barr@pop.psu.edu (David Barr) writes:
>In article <2144@dutiws.tudelft.nl> dimitri@dutiws.tudelft.nl (Dimitri Tischenko) writes:
>>To add an argument against the name: it's a bad name because 
>>non-NeXT people will think "Hey, NeXT must be a REALLY buggy system, 
>>they even have a newsgroup for the bugs!"
>
>Tell that to the comp.bugs.* heirarchy.
>

I don't see any comp.bugs.* groups for a specific vendor. Is there any?
 
>>However, I do support the idea, but let's choose a more neutral name
>>like comp.sys.next.faqs or so.
>
>What do FAQ's have to do with bugs?  (Other than a place to read
>about how they {need to,have been} fixed)

You've answered your own question. 

+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Dimitri Tischenko | D.B.Tischenko@IS.TWI.TUDelft.NL |   NeXTmail preferred!  |
+---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
| Delft University of Technology        | Technische Universiteit Delft        |
| Fac Applied Math & Computer Science   | Fac. Techn. Wiskunde & Informatica   |
| The Netherlands                       | Nederland                            |
+---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Christoph Weber-Fahr [KIT])
Subject: Re: MacApp group name
Organization: University of Kaiserslautern, Germany
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:40:59 GMT

werner@soe.berkeley.edu (John Werner) writes:
>In article <1aajg2INN4oj@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A.
>Uy) wrote:
>> Why call it macapp3 when there isn't an existing
>>  macapp group to compete with?  What happens when
>>  Mac App v4 come out?
>If we were _just_ creating a newsgroup, you'd probably be right.  But we're
>gatewaying an existing mailing list into a newsgroup, and the list is
>intended for MacApp 3 discussion only.  So the newsgroup should be too;
>otherwise we'll deluge the mailing list readers with messages they don't
>care about.

Please folks - why don't you add a .misc group ? This would bring
lot of logic into that proposal.

Regards

Christoph Weber-Fahr

-- 
  Christoph Weber-Fahr                  |  E-Mail:  weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de 
  Universitaet Kaiserslautern,  KIT     |  S-Mail:  Postfach 3049
  Tel. 0631/205-3391                    |           D-6750 Kaiserslautern
--------------------------  My personal opinion only    ---------------------
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: jvbutera@grad01.math.ncsu.edu (Jeffrey V. Butera)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.marching
Organization: NCSU Mathematics Dept.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 02:09:04 GMT


Not that I want to push the issue, but it seems that all the
discussion about r.a.m.****** has come to a head and slowly
dying.  Is it appropriate to call for at least a straw poll
now that discussion has subsided?


-- 
Jeff Butera            DISCLAIMER: I claim absolutely nothing.
Math Graduate Student
N.C. State University    "Still looking for a witty quote." 
jvbutera@math.ncsu.edu                           -Brad Halls
Xref: sparky news.groups:18665 rec.music.bluenote:7610
From: rshapiro@bbn.com (Richard Shapiro)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: r.m.bluenote --> r.m.jazz + r.m.blues (was: rec.music.jazz)
Date: 3 Oct 92 16:28:39 GMT
	<1992Oct1.041938.23134@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
	<RSHAPIRO.92Oct1122430@kariba.bbn.com>
	<1992Oct2.170707.26647@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
	<SMEHTA.92Oct2181351@kwela.nynexst.com>
Distribution: na
Organization: BBN, Cambridge MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: kariba.bbn.com
In-reply-to: smehta@kwela.nynexst.com's message of 3 Oct 92 01:13:51 GMT

In article <SMEHTA.92Oct2181351@kwela.nynexst.com> smehta@kwela.nynexst.com (Sandeep Mehta) writes:
   > mingus@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Damballah Wedo) writes:

   > I'll also reiterate my belief that at the bottom of this effort to
   > split the group is the narrowminded desire to exclude anything that
   > is not exactly what one is interested in.

   Amen!

Since so many explicit reasons have been given, I'm not sure there's
any reason to speculate on implicit ones, especially if you're going
to use this speculation to label people "narrowminded". This kind of
thing is unnecessary and unhelpful. It's also inaccurate and a bad
guess of what's "at the bottom of the effort".

I respect Sandeep and Marcel enough to know that they've just gotten a
little carried away here. Please, guys, leave the dirty politics to
less worthy and less creditable people.

rs
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.music.bluenote
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: r.m.bluenote --> r.m.jazz + r.m.blues (was: rec.music.jazz)
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 00:10:38 GMT

jojw@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (John J. Wood) writes:

>open mind.  Almost contradictory, I do confess that I sometimes tend to
>separate fusion from jazz, because the genres borrowed are from rock/R&B
>rather than traditional jazz.  

Really? I've not found that to be entirely true...listen to John Beasley's
new ablum (Cauldron) for a good example.

I'm also concerned about the jazz "elitism" that will quite probably 
appear in a "jazz" newsgroup...to me fusion is perfectly legitimate
in the context of jazz. 

-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

             It is only knowledge that will destroy bias.
From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD Alternative Medicine
Date: 6 Oct 92 15:21:06 GMT
Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany

In article <1992Oct5.232733.16684@netcom.com>, kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski) writes:
>In <1992Oct5.172003.5116@rhrk.uni-kl.de>kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de
>(Thomas Kettenring) writes:
>
>>What is unbiased discussion?  For that you seem to need people without
>>opinion (opinion leads to bias).
>
>Opinions don't necessarily lead to bias.  Bias is "preference or
>inclination that inhibits impartial judgment; prejudice". [The
>American Heritage Dictionary, Houghton Mifflin, 1980.]
>
>Prejudice is unseemly, especially in people who fancy themselves
>scientists.  After all, the *foundation* of science is impartial
>observation and experimentation, neh?

You really believe there are humans who are able of impartial judgment?
Humans without prejudices?
My approach is "I am biased, I have an opinion, and I know it.  So I can take
into consideration the fact that my bias influences the results of my thinking,
and correct for it."

I wouldn't trust anybody claiming to be unbiased.
They are not even aware of their bias, and this naivete multiplies the weight
of the bias they have.
On sci.skeptic they tend to call themselves "true skeptics", as opposed to
"self-proclaimed skeptics".

>>Conclusion:  You don't want unbiased discussion, you want a group with postings
>>biased in the direction of your opinion, forbidding unwelcome criticsm.
>>That's not even discussion.
>
>I'd heartily welcome informed and open-minded criticism and discussion in
>an alternative health newsgroup, especially if it includes facts and
>reasoned opinions.  Prejudice, though, I'd rather do without.

Then just ask the people you regard as prejudiced for justification of their
opinion, or ignore them.  Perhaps they turn out to have reasons?
There's no need to moderate a newsgroup because of this.  Look at alt.astrology.
Every six months they get a load of "astrology is crap" postings.  The regulars
flame them and sneer at them, and most of them go away.  Those that remain try
to have serious discussions, but most of the regulars don't want to discuss.

--
thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany
Science is like democracy - it's not perfect, but it's the best thing available.
Xref: sparky news.groups:18445 rec.music.bluenote:7450
From: jimf@kronos.com (Jim Fournier)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: r.m.bluenote --> r.m.jazz + r.m.blues (was: rec.music.jazz)
Summary: Bleeeaaaaaggggghhhhhh !!!
Date: 28 Sep 92 16:23:05 GMT
Followup-To: news.groups
Distribution: usa
Organization: Kronos Inc. / Waltham, MA
Disclaimer: This posting is a personal opinion and not that of Kronos Inc.

In article <Bv5KDG.Lrs@rice.edu> mcmahon@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael G. McMahon) writes:
>Bad idea.  If we ignore it will it go away?

Amen. Anyone who doesn't understand the relationship between the blues and
jazz needs to spend a lot more time reading rec.music.bluenote, a lot more time
listening to jazz from all eras, and a lot more time reading the thoughts of
the masters, past and present, of jazz.
From: dwj@sactoh0.sac.ca.us (Daniel W. James)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Looking for Raytrace group(s)
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:49:30 GMT
Organization: Sacramento Public Access Unix

I once saw a mention of a group relating to raytrace images (it supposedly
existed at the time, I don't think it was a call for votes or anything).

If it does exist, can someone point me to it so that I can try to get it
carried on this site!!!???

Thanx.
-- 
_________________________________________________________________________
Some folks try to multiply from sunrise to  |          dwj@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US
Sunset--leave behind more of their kind so  |       ames!pacbell!sactoh0!dwj
no one will forget             -- Level 42  |(This space available for rent)
Xref: sparky news.groups:18664 rec.music.bluenote:7608