HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: loosemore-sandra@CS.YALE.EDU (Sandra Loosemore)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.olympics
Subject: Re: Figure skating dispute (was Re: Synchronized Swimming Dispute)
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:21:04 GMT
	<1992Aug11.192100.12994@cs.yale.edu>
	<1992Aug12.213142.17732@erg.sri.com>
Organization: staff hacker @ Yale Haskell project

vlad@erg.sri.com (vlad) writes:

   Well, I don't remember the exact numbers but suppose Diane had gotten 8
   first places from foreign judges and 1 
   twelveth place from th eAmerican judge. her total would be 20. Dorothy
   would have gotten 1 first place from the American and 8 second places.
   Total would have been 17. Thus, Dorothy would have won.

That isn't how it works.  Since (in your hypothetical example) Diane
had an absolute majority of first-place votes, it wouldn't have
mattered how low the remaining judge ranked her.

Here are some exerpts from my copy of the USFSA rulebook (a few years old,
but the scoring system has been virtually the same for many years):

* The competitor(s) placed first by the absolute majority of judges is
first; the competitor placed second or better by an absolute majority
of judges is second and so on.

* If two or more competitors are tied for the same place, the ties shall
be broken by the application of the following rules....  [basically, this
is the point at which the placements from all the judges are added up to
break the tie]

* In awarding the subsequent places thereafter, the competitor with a
majority for the lowest numbered place shall be given first consideration.

* If there is no absolute majority for any given place, the place in
question shall be awarded to the competitor with the majority for
the nearest following place.

As I said before, the normal case is for the winner to receive an
absolute majority of first-place votes.  For this not to happen, you
need to have the first-place votes divided among *three* skaters, not
just two, and that just doesn't happen very often.

-Sandra
Newsgroups: rec.sport.olympics
From: manu@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Njan)
Subject: Re: Gail Devers
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 08:48:14 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.082918.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> teittinen@sara.cc.utu.fi (Matti Teittinen) writes:
>Hello
>
>Why Gail Devers (USA) didn't run in the women's 100m relay team in the final?

Is that a trick question or what?

Njan
Newsgroups: rec.sport.olympics
From: kai1@dasher.uucp (Kai Chiu)
Subject: Re: American Arrogance - US Monolopy?
Reply-To: kai1@dasher.UUCP (Kai Chiu)
Organization: Bellcore, Piscataway, NJ
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 13:31:33 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.183217.27718@u.washington.edu> gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu (Just another theatre geek.....) writes:
>
>	Basically, you were. ANd your post about Barkeley WAS bigoted.
>
        Roger, what do you say if I claim you are a theft, a drug 
	addict, a male prostitue, etc., without any supporting facts?

>	And your post is definitely proof that arrogance is not
>just an American quality. 
>
        So you think I'm not an american. But why? Isn't your
	casual assertion about my nationality a bit bigoted? 
	Can I say you are just another sleazy foreigner in this 
	country because you have a family name -Tang- rather
	than something like Jones or Smith?

>
>	As opposed to the European commercialization?
>
        What? You anti-european racist bigot! 
	Why didn't you say anything about asia, africa, or south
	america?

>>The fact is simple, the US team deserves a gold in the world 
>>competition of arrogance. Period. 
>
>	Not.
>
>
>-- 
>Roger Tang gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu
>Executive Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW;



Kai Chiu
kai1@dasher.cc.bellcore.com
Bell Communications Research, Inc.              
Tel: (908) 699-7338 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.olympics
From: choy@skorpio.usask.ca
Subject: Re: Arrogance and the Olympics
Organization: University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:47:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.012317.24972@walter.bellcore.com>, lein@garage.bae.bellcore.com (John Leinaweaver) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug11.141333.2098@brandonu.ca>, rodgers@brandonu.ca writes:
|> > I have been reading with interest the debate over the arrogance of US 
|> > athletes compared to others.  True, there are a few American athletes
|> > who have a slight ego (Lewis, Johnson, Torrence); several other countries
|> > do as well.  
|> > 
|> > However, in my opinion, it is not the athletes in the USA that have a
|> > ego problem, it is the American media, especially NBC.  They are so
|> > one-sided in their coverage, it is unbelievable.  If an American does
|> > not stand a chance in winning an event, they will not show it.  Worse
|> > still, if in the middle of a race, if the American falls back, they
|> > would actually cut away from the coverage and usually show basketball
|> > highlights.  The Olympics are not an American event, they are a world-wide
|> > event,
|> >
|> 
|> If the Olympics are not a nationalistic event, then why do athletics
|> wear outfits identifying them with a country, why is there a parade of
|> nations, each bearing their flag and "cultural" outfits when it starts.
|> or the medal cerimonies with it's flags and national anthemes    
|> 
|> The olympics were designed to be nationalistic, country -vs- country
|> 
|> Having spent 1984 in Britain, I found that US is not alone in showning 
|> only their athletes in the medal cerimony or selecting events which
|> only their atheltics compete.
|> 
|> John L
|> 

Athletes in general rely on their country so countries are important.

Henry Choy
choy@cs.usask.ca
From: paul@panix.com (Paul Gatker)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.olympics
Subject: Re: Age-rule (Was Re: Kim Zmeskal)
Keywords: gymnastics
Date: 16 Aug 92 19:42:25 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <shralp.713984180@camelot> shralp@camelot.bradley.edu (Jamie McDonald) writes:

>>The main argument I think is, are these 14-year-olds mentally capable
>>of handling an Olympics?  

>The question for me lies in whether a 14-yr old should have been
>conditioned all her life to *be* such a competitor.

 I think that for a teenage girl to reach the olympics she requires special
talents, both physical and mental. Gymnastic training for a child and teenager
is obviously a hard yet virtuous involvment. The question is if the highly
competitive stress of world class gymnastics is good or not. It is of my
opinion that it would be very easy for any teenager to _not_ reach that level
if he/she didn't have the very deep seated desire to do so. Miss a few          strategic practices, not try 100% at a crucial time, not spend the extra
xx hours practicing to perfect a technique. It's very easy to avoid world
class competition if one wants to. Of course with the innate talent that
these youngsters have, there is a social support structure that encourages the
sacrifices necessary to be national and world class. Still, as I theorize above,it wouldn't take much reduction in effort for a young athlete to stay
regional, and enjoy a normal lifestyle.
 
 *Opposing opinions encouraged*

-- 
*******************************************************************
 paul@panix.com                            COMPULITE GRAPHICS
brooklyn, ny, usa                         Design & Consultation
*********************************************************************
Xref: sparky rec.sport.olympics:4388 rec.bicycles:20760
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.olympics,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: All that fat
Date: 13 Aug 92 23:58:24 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Aug13.100416.20756@samba.oit.unc.edu> Robert.Holton@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Robert Holton) writes:
> Still I didn't know that us
>brits were known for living long lives.

Maybe it just seems that way because we would fell so much
better without you. :-)

Eskimos come to mind as a people who had a winter diet consisting
almost entirely of fat.
From: shralp@camelot.bradley.edu (Jamie McDonald)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.olympics
Subject: Re: Age-rule (Was Re: Kim Zmeskal)
Keywords: gymnastics
Date: 16 Aug 92 16:56:20 GMT
Organization: Bradley University

In <Bt29L3.JtA@rice.edu> rachele@cs.rice.edu (Rachele Harless) writes:

>The main concern here is
>delayed puberty; when a gymnast stops training, apparently it is not
>uncommon for her to experience an
>accelerated puberty.  In the end she is where she would have been
>minus the hard training.

Yet I can't help thinking that Kim and most others in similar
situations miss out on a lot of things that other kids get.
Naturally, they do - but I think this is a more negative thing than
people often acknowledge.  The glory of the Olympics and world
competition is small compensation for the radically different
lifestyles these kids have to go through in my eyes.

>The main argument I think is, are these 14-year-olds mentally capable
>of handling an Olympics?  

I don't think that there's any doubt that Kim was tough enough to
handle it.  AS someone mentioned earlier in the string, no one ever
saw a tear or anything from the girl - no matter what had just
happenned.  (Was I the only one who got tired of people dwelling on
the fall off the beam and Tatiana Gutsu's tears?)  

The question for me lies in whether a 14-yr old should have been
conditioned all her life to *be* such a competitor.

--
shralp@camelot.bradley.edu                      Jamie McDonald  <><

What happened to the people that tested Preparation A though G?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.olympics
From: dong-danning@CS.YALE.EDU (Danning Dong)
Subject: Re: American Arrogance - US Monolopy?
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:58:37 GMT

In article <3307@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM> mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson) writes:
>In <1992Aug11.155002.14661@cmcl2.nyu.edu> petrescd@acf3.nyu.edu (Deivy Marck Petrescu) writes:
>
>>I used to be like that. In France last year when Lewis broke the
>>wr for the 100m the newspaper ONLY wrote about him and how great
>>he was. I am not a frenchman. I  happened to be there and I witnessed
>>the event. Don't forget that the french people are considered #1
>>in chauvinism here.

>Were there any french atheletes who had a chance of winning?  If not
>I do not think your analogy holds.

Disagree!  What the French newspaper did showed their general attitude towards
excellence of sport.  They proudly wrote about the new world record and its
holder.  Chinese is not very good at 100m dash, but many Chineses are familiar
with the name Carl Lewis, who have shown excellence in this event.  However,
Americans are good at diving, especially men's diving, how many Americans have
actually heard of the name of Gao Min, a Chinese girl who, since the age of 15,
has never lost in a single major international diving competition and won 2 
consecutive springboard Olympic gold medals in 88' and 92'?  The point is:

Not excellence of sports, but excellence of Americans is the American media 
paying attention to.


>>The level of bias in the coverage of any event in the media
>>here in the US it is of such magnitude  that eventually things 
>>that are acceptable tend to become unacceptable.
>> Deiby

>Please explain what you mean here, what things?
>--Mark

The acceptable is: US TV coverage focusing on the excellence of their athletes;

The unacceptable is: US TV coverage diminishing or even ignoring the excellence
		     of others.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.olympics,rec.bicycles
From: chris@carnival.lbl.gov (Chris Moll)
Subject: Re: All that fat
Keywords: Speaking of fat
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 22:58:34 GMT

Colin DeWolfe writes:
> Chris Moll writes:
>>A friend eats a REALLY low-fat diet (those muffins he makes are totally
>>inedible - my girlfriend called them "meadow muffins") but his cholesterol
>>is higher than mine.                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>In Nova Scotia meadow muffins would not be very healthy to eat.  I think
>they are commonly referred to elsewhere in the world as "cow-patties" :)

Here too.  Cows eat a lot of fiber.  (Or cellulose anyway.)

There's nothing quite like a muffin with lots of millet.  One of those 
suckers could survive several innings' use as a baseball.
--
Chris Moll                       (510)486-7891
---
"Blessed are they who Go Around in Circles, for they Shall
be Known as Wheels."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.olympics
From: europa@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (r.j.capik)
Subject: Re: GYMNASTICS: responses to various items...
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 00:37:33 GMT

From article <1992Aug14.020243.11186@cbnews.cb.att.com>, by tcr@cbnews.cb.att.com (toby.c.rabold):
> In article <BsxHr1.1o0@rice.edu> rachele@cs.rice.edu (Rachele Harless) writes:
>>In article <BILLW.92Aug12235622@regal.cisco.com> billw@regal.cisco.com (William ) writes:
>>>
>>
>>[stuff deleted]
>>
> 
> I have some information that might help people understand women's
> optional gymnastic scoring. First off, it's complicated, so I hope I
> can explain it well enough. Just one comment regarding the men's vs.
> the women's scores. I think the bottom line is that the men's judges 
> were just more strict and also paid less attention to who was performing
> and more attention to what was being performed.

Some how I don't like the under tone of thes statement. This little
red light went off in my head when I read it.
  The MEN's judges and the WOMEN's judges? Ouch! You mean in gymnastics
the men's and women's point systems are so different that they have
totally different judges?
Do women judge the women, and men judge the men? From the NBC coverage
it was hard to tell just who the judges were in any event. It had me
wondering if most of the rythmic gymnastics and sync. swimming judges
were women. 
Something sounds sexist here, and for some reason seems to bother
me. Perhaps it is because in my sport (freestyle skiing) we work
on a unisex system. It turns out that our (male/female) judge ratio
is about the same as the competitor ratio.

> Someone already talked about the levels of difficulty -A (easiest) to
> D (hardest)...although beginning this competitive year some of the tricks
> were downgraded and a new level of difficulty was added - E. In order
> to get a 10 from now on, an E trick will have to be included. These

I don't have time to go into details now, but we used a difficulty system
like this in freestyle for years. We have now moved to a psudo open-ended
system where each class of tricks has a given point value. We do have
limits on the total number of tricks and the number from a given class. 

> include such things as a back handspring triple layout on beam; a Yurchenko
> with a double full on vault (the Yurchenko's that we saw in the Olympics will
> only have a full value of say 9.9 from now on);a double layout,full-in full-
> out or triple full on floor; and a triple back dismount on bars (they'll also
> require at least two (or 3?)release moves on bars) . There aren't too
> many people who can do these things yet, so most of the high scores in the

This is also a limiting factor in my sport.

> Toby Rabold
>  
Gotta run now.....   more on this stuff later.

Ron Capik        AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel NJ   via: europa@cbnewsh.att.com
US Ski Association
[ note: I use a Dan Quayle spelle ckecker ]
Newsgroups: rec.sport.olympics
From: gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu (Just another theatre geek.....)
Subject: Re: Arrogance and the Olympics
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:37:42 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.141333.2098@brandonu.ca> rodgers@brandonu.ca writes:
>However, in my opinion, it is not the athletes in the USA that have a
>ego problem, it is the American media, especially NBC.  They are so
>one-sided in their coverage, it is unbelievable. 

	Rather, I think it's non-standard viewers who are so arrogant that
their viewpoint is the right one.

	Remember, one of the cardinal rules of journalism is propinquity.
That is, report on things that have a connection to your audience. For
the vast majority of the NBC audience, that's American athletes.

>I do not critize Americans for being proud of their country, but the
>television coverage should reflect the Olympic spirit, not the American
>ego!

	For AMERICAN audiences? Right....

>Anyone out there agree with me?

	Not me.
-- 
Roger Tang gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu
Executive Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW;
	The definition of having balls is a non-singer who goes karaoke singing 
with the cast of a musical revue.
From: billw@regal.cisco.com (William )
Newsgroups: rec.sport.olympics
Subject: Re: Banned Techniques
Date: 15 Aug 92 07:07:50 GMT
	<1992Aug12.141810.8650@walter.bellcore.com>
	<1992Aug13.161555.14925@colorado.edu>
Organization: cisco Systems, Inc.
X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message are those of an
	      individual at SRI International, and do not necessarily
	      reflect those of the company.


    The Thomas flair became know as that because he was one of the first to
    do a move invented on pommel horse on the floor. 

I'm pretty sure it got named before it was done on floor, and that
Kurt was the first one to use it on pommel hourse also.

BillW
Newsgroups: rec.sport.olympics
From: pol30546@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Peder Larsen)
Subject: Re: Yes, Definitely. Re: Chinese athlets
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:03:21 GMT

>In swimming, Outto (?) won all of the gold medals except one silver medal.
>6 out 7, or, 4 out of 5. (sorry, can't remember which one.) 

>>Maybe, maybe not.  I don't remember quite clearly but I think their
>>chief competitor that time were also the US swimmers.  If the East Germans were
>>not in Seoul in '88, everyone's rank will improve, isn't that obvious?  

 Otto won six golds in Seoul, four individual and two relay.  The East
 Germans and the Americans were the best teams there while China was perhaps
 #5 or #6 at best, which is also what they are right now.
From: blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.olympics
Subject: Re: WHO SAID THAT HASSIBA BOULMERKA WAS A FLUKE?
Date: 13 Aug 92 06:10:09 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

Maitreya Sengupta writes:
>blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.) writes:
>|> ....Last I checked, Algeria was still a strictly Muslim country, and a
>|>woman running, in shorts, in public is pretty much unheard of.
>	Just one question. Have you ever been to Algeria? Have you studied any
>factual accounts about their culture/lifestyle? Or is your opinion
>entirely based on the reliable and authentic infromation gleaned from
>NBC/ABC/CBS/Star/Weekly World News/Globe etc.
>Maitreya (no, I'm not from Algeria) Sengupta.

No, I have never been to Algeria.
Yes, I have studied factual accounts on the culture/lifestyle of Muslim
dominated countries.
No, my opinion is much more educated than the Weekly World News. Or NBC
for that matter.

Whats your point in asking me all those questions anyways? Just tyring to
be inflamatory? Or has Muslim Fundamentalism really lightend up that much
to allow a woman to run, in public, with bare legs. (Nothing against Muslim
fundies- we got our own brand of fundamentalists out here- plenty to deal
with by themselves, thanks :)

If your not from Algeria, have you ever been there? Why do you presume that,
just because I'm from the US, I'm a cultural illiterate? What is your basis
of fact that information given out by the US media (star, weekly world news
and national enquirer aside) is unauthentic and unreliable?

r.
From: gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu (Just another theatre geek.....)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.olympics
Subject: Re: American Arrogance - US Monolopy?
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:32:17 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Aug12.170739.18227@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> kai1@dasher.UUCP (Kai Chiu) writes:
>In article <2266@tymix.Tymnet.COM> douge@tigger.tymnet.com (Doug Ellenberg) writes:
>>What do you call a team that beats another in a relay and has
>>t-shirts printed reading: "We Kicked Their Butts!"?
>>Arrogance, questionable displays of sportsmanship, bad taste...
>>It seems the rest of the world is catching up.
>Please just ignore this guy as I did when he sent me email making 
>studpid accusations (I am a racist because I critisized Charles
>Barkley,

	Basically, you were. ANd your post about Barkeley WAS bigoted.

	And your post is definitely proof that arrogance is not
just an American quality. 

 or I am anti-american because I don't like america's
>commericialization of sports, etc.).

	As opposed to the European commercialization?

>The fact is simple, the US team deserves a gold in the world 
>competition of arrogance. Period. 

	Not.


-- 
Roger Tang gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu
Executive Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW;
	The definition of having balls is a non-singer who goes karaoke singing 
with the cast of a musical revue.
From: lp1w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Luis Pessoa-Brandao)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.olympics
Subject: Marathons
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:58:13 GMT
Organization: Freshman, Biology, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


Can anyone tell me who holds the records (world and olympic) for the
men's and women's marathon, and what they are?

Thanks.

Luis
Newsgroups: rec.sport.olympics,rec.bicycles
From: rlewis@muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca (Robert Lewis)
Subject: Re: All that fat
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:34:27 GMT

apm@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Andrew Merritt) writes:

>rlewis@muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca (Robert Lewis) writes:
>: 
>: Actually the British have an extremely high rate of heart disease, the 
>: highest in the world I believe (with Scotland and Northern Ireland
>: having the highest rates within the U.K.).  Having seen the average Brit
>: diet (as you say "practically oozes lard") I'm not surprised.

>This may be the point to mention that famous Glasgow delicacy, the deep fried
>pizza.  Or maybe not, if you've just eaten.

>----
>Andrew 

Or crisp butties (potato chip sandwiches for the uninitiated).  Another 
delicacy is deep fried hagis, I had (a bit of this) in Ayr and even the
seagulls turned down the left-overs.  However not all British food is 
that bad and if you cycle around Britain (especially if the weather gets
colder) you can use the extra fat as fuel.


Robert M. Lewis
Department of Sociology
University of Alberta
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
Newsgroups: rec.sport.olympics
From: knobel@unixg.ubc.ca (Robert Knobel)
Subject: Re: Ann Marden, Sculling; What Place?
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:58:40 GMT

In article <1992Aug15.001616.17251@cs.wisc.edu> chavey@jalapeno.cs.wisc.edu (Darrah Chavey) writes:
>I missed the finals of the women's sculling. Can anyone tell me how Ann
>(Anne?) Marden from the U.S. did? I can't find sculling in any report
>anywhere, except for saying that Silkenn Laumann came in third.
>
>Thanks,

Ann(e) Marden came fourth, narrowly beaten by Laumann for the bronze medal.
(I remember since I stayed up late to watch this race live).

Rob
From: perl@dwrsun4.UUCP (Robert Perlberg)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.olympics
Subject: Re: '72 Massacre
Date: 14 Aug 92 22:01:24 GMT
Organization: Dean Witter Reynolds Inc., New York

In article <BsMs1B.5JC@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, gletty@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Bruce Gletty) writes:
> The piece was indeed slanted in favor of israel fo the most part, but

OK, let's see what we got here.  A group of nice Jewish boys and girls
with no chance in hell of winning a medal show up in Munich to
participate in some nice friendly games.  A group of Palestinian
terrorists who sneaked in under false identities come marching into the
Israelis' rooms with guns blaring and kill every last one of them.
Yeah, I see your point.  It was all the Israeli's fault.

Robert Perlberg
Dean Witter Reynolds Inc., New York
{murphy | philabs}!dwrsun4!perl
	-- "I am not a language ... I am a free man!"