HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: George Paap <george_paap@email.sps.mot.com>
Subject: Re: What the hell to do for Solstice
Organization: Motorola - SPS
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.0
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:21:05 GMT


>>Well, Janis, I'm not sure what to tell you. If it is any comfort,
>>I am facing the same dilemma. My mother is devout Christian and my
>>father (step, actually) is Buddhist. The last thing I need is to
>>start a THREE way religious conflict. Sheesh!
>
>My family is in no way religious, but Witchcraft still carries crappy
>connotations.  They also live in a very conservative and unenlightened

First an introduction:
Hello from deep in the heart of corporate America.
This is my first post here, and I'll admit, its a bit
scary posting from an environment where everyone has
access to the net, but only one friend at work knows I'm pagan.
In fact, this and many related groups.do not appear on
most of the newservers.  I "found" one that is less "censured"
(No bad vibes against Moto, its a good company and its
their computer).  

My experience:  Yea, I've had to deal with this.  I've
decided NOT to tell my parents (both sets) because
there first reaction would be strongly against it and
I would rather not have all that negativity directed at
me.  The bad part is that I feel much more distant from
them, since I cannot share a significant aspect of my life.
Also it is annoying to have to deal with my moms "guilt 
trips" and value judgments which conflict with my own.
However, they're still great people and I love them a lot,
perhaps one day I'll tell them, but not now.

I did however decide to tell my younger brother (age 21)
At first I talked about it in "goddess" "new age" terms
to test the waters.  Then (next time he visited) I told
him that I was wiccan and what that meant to me.  His basic
reaction was, "Your my brother, I love you regardless of 
what you choose to believe.  But I don't want to talk about
it".  The next time he came to visit (about 6 month later)
we ended up having a long and very deep (relatively speaking)
conversation about my beliefs.  He was much more open then,
and although his beliefs didn't change, I believe he realized
that there was some degree of value and truth in what
I was saying.

I think how you tell them (if you do) should depend on how
you think they will react.  Some people (myself included)
when faced with beliefs that are opposite to there own 
will at first oppose it but also look for truth and value, and if
it is powerful enough, it will change there views.  I used
to be a fundamentalist Christian (but that is another story).

Others, will simply oppose your ideas for the sake of opposition.
I know my parents would probably be not be able to "deal"
with my change in beliefs (they're not really that religious,
in an absolute sense, but they would certainly be concerned
about my ticked to heaven).  Anyway, I found my experience of
opening up slowly to my brother, giving him only as much info 
as he could "deal" with worked well.  It also feels good that
someone in my family knows, I feel closer to him now.

Bright Yule Blessings to All,

George Paap

I am my opinions.
(which almost certainly are not those of my employer)
From: bwhite@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (William E. White )
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Somalia [was: Start again]
Date: 16 Dec 92 18:51:28 GMT
Organization: Ohio University, Computer Science Department

In article <1gkrepINN146@mirror.digex.com> corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra) writes:
>I think the answer may be in the narcotic plant that the we're being told
>is the cause of all the fighting over there. Maybe our internal drug runners,
>you know, the three letter club, wants to introduce something new to supplant
>the Colombian coke. Maybe the COlombians are asking for a bigger share of
>the profits from the CIA and it's a scare tactic to make the Colombians
>knuckle under. Woo! Talk about paranoid. ;-)

This is a topic of discussion over in alt.drugs, so I'm not going to crosspost
over there and add yet more Khat discussions.

Cathine (sp?), the active ingredient in Khat, is a noradrenergic, just like
caffeine and amphetamine.  It is not dopaminergic like amphetamines, however.
Also, it is not a catecholamine reuptake inhibitor like cocaine.  (I'm going
by word of mouth on its lack of dopaminergic activity, BTW; I may be wrong
on this).

In terms of its strength, various sources I trust have stated that Khat when
chewed is about like strong coffee.  It is *NOT* some new super-powerful
speed.  It is *NOT* cocaine or crack.  

Furthermore, Khat has long been a part of the social environment in that area
of Africa.  It is used much like coffee is drank here -- it is a part of
people's lives.  Yes, the cathine could be extracted from Khat, and it would
probably be pretty potent, but then again, you could extract caffeine from
coffee beans and snort that too (I know someone who did, incidentally).
Think of people sitting around chewing Khat like people sitting in coffee
houses sipping coffee.  Yes, it can be abused, and yes it can make people
tend to be violent and cranky .... just like coffee or any other stimulant.

Don't believe what the media spoon-feeds you.  

>Bb,
>Corun


-- 
|  Bill White   +1-614-594-3434     | bwhite@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu             |
|  31 Curran Dr., Athens OH  45701  | bwhite@bigbird.cs.ohiou.edu (alternate) |
|  SCA: Erasmus Marwick, Dernehealde Pursuivant, Dernehealde, Middle Kingdom  |
From: jblain@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Looking for names of gods and goddesses for baby
Date: 15 Dec 92 22:56:24 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1gisk1INNms6@gap.caltech.edu>, ann@cco.caltech.edu (Ann Terese Heil) writes:
> I am expecting my second child in a couple of months, and would like
> to give her/him the name of a god or goddess or mythological character
> as a middle name.  I am not particular about the mythology from which
> the name is drawn.  My first born's middle name is Ra, after the 
> Egyptian sun god.  Any and all suggestions would be very welcome!
> 
> I know this subject was discussed a couple of years ago.  Did someone
> save a file of names that could forward it on to me?
> 
> peace
> ann
> 
I'd suggest getting hold of a dictionary of mythology! A list of names
could rapidly get kind of long . . .

However if you have particular qualities, aspects, or whatever in mind,
I'm sure people on the net could contribute names from different pantheons
that fitted those qualities. How about a Moon name to balance the Sun of Ra?
There are lots of female ones (Luna, Selene, etc, etc) but fewer male. The
Egyptian moon god was Sin, but that would seem to be ruled out . . . what
were the Celtic moon deities (female and male)?

You could also try alt.mythology
 -- 

	Jenny		Jblain @ ac.dal.ca
__________________________________________________________________________
	I was in many shapes before I was released:
	.....
	I was a path, I was an eagle, I was a coracle in seas;
	I was a bubble in beer, I was a drop in a shower;
	I was a sword in hand, I was a shield in battle.
	I was a string in a harp enchanted nine years, in the water as foam;
	I was a spark in fire, I was wood in a bonfire;
	I am not one who does not sing; I have sung since I was small.

						[from The Book of Taliesin]
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
Date: 16 Dec 1992 15:22:26 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <gate.3H3mVB1w165w@pil.UUCP> alizard@pil writes:
>
>Ashley has the right to say what he pleases. When he obviously doesn't
>know what he's talking about, he does NOT have the right to be taken
>seriously. This is a serious issue. If he wants to be taken seriously
>on this by any but the equally ignorant, he needs to do some serious
>study on subjects ranging from recycling to economics to space technology.
>                                                 A.Lizard

If this is so serious to you, then you should get Ashley the serious
education that you feel sie needs rather than merely point out that, in
your opinion, sie is an idiot. And BTW, everyone has the RIGHT to be taken
seriously. They also have the right to be corrected when they are wrong.
That's why I'm correcting you now. I'm exercising my right to insure your
right to be taken seriously even when you're wrong.

Bb,
Corun

-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra    |    My opinions *are* those of my boss, because
  Dark Horde by birth  |   he is me, and I am he, and we are all together.
    Moritu by choice   |                 Coo coo cachoob.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:31:24 GMT
Reply-To: boylan@ljohub.enet.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <lif807INNhon@news.bbn.com>, dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:

>                                                     I also was buying
> cow manure at the local garden store, because the only thing going into
> my compost heap was leaves, coffee grounds, and orange rinds.  So in a
> sense, I was buying fertility from somewhere else and dumping it into
> my 20 square feet of denial.  I loved my garden but after a while it
> became obvious that I was only pretending to be friendly to nature.  It's
> an improvement, maybe a big improvement, but it simply doesn't add up.
> If I couldn't have bought cow manure, my compost heap wouldn't have 
> been able to keep that ground fertile.  I'm very interested in bio-intensive
> gardening, but it's just naive to think that you could have that much
> effect from it.

Dawn, I may be missing something here . . . my wife and I managed to
turn a parking lot into 2500 square feet of garden space, using compost
made from vegetable scraps, grass, and fallen leaves . . . in Somerville!
While she did mix in composted cow manure in some beds, and one batch
of un-composted cow manure in one bed (her brother-in-law is a
veterinarian in New Hampshire, and brought us a present one morning),
the cow manure wasn't really necessary for fertility.

				- - Steve

				boylan@ljohub.enet.dec.com
From: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling)
Subject: re:food for fasting
Reply-To: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:38:14 GMT

I have a segestion->dont!!!
The body and mind nead the calories to function properly.
The concept of visions from fasting comes from the fact that a food 
starved brain starts creating imigis by relesing chemicals that shouldnt
be.
A calorie starved body retaleats.
If you lose to much weight to fast your body will rebel.
A sarved body will lose its ability to process solid food.

I have a hypermatabalism, between the end of July and the end of August of 91
I lost 10lb (teach me to eat an advrige diet:)). This put me down to 95lbs
I couldnt keep much solid food down for the first 5lbs that I gained back.
This combined with a normal Iowa summer made for a really sick elf-kin:)

Their are beter ways to meditate/cleans the soul then dening your self some
of the basic necesities.

Elf-Kin
From: kre@po.CWRU.edu (Keith R.W. Elflein)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Nomenclature...i am confused
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Date: 15 Dec 1992 01:10:06 GMT
Organization: International Horn Society
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: b61693.student.cwru.edu

I have just recently begun to read this bb because i am interested in
getting to know more about pagan beliefs and practices. I still am new at
this, and am trying to make a decision as to where my beliefs are, but i
have always been drawn to pagan beliefs and the like ever since i was a
child. But i have noticed that in many articles some of the people who
state that they are pagan also call themselves "witches." Now, a witch is
someone who has sold her soul to evil, last time i checked. I thought that
pagans believed in worshiping the life-force that flows through nature.
That, to me, is certainly not evil, but the life-force which flows from the
higher power. I need someone to clear this up for me please. Thankyou,
																			
											Keith


"When tears of joy are flowing, Love laughs sweetly at the beloved! To kiss
them from her cheeks is Love's most beautiful, greatest payment."
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling)
Subject: pagon customs in cristmas
Reply-To: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:24:44 GMT

Mistletoe and evergreens are sacride plants.
Mistletoe is hung over doorways year round as protection I beleave
Live evergreens were 'decorated' to honer the tree. -> things were put
on the tree as offerings to the tree its self I think. The offerings were
fruits and things because animals and birds would eat them.
The worst coruption (in my mind) is the cutting down of the tree.

Elf-Kin
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: sowing bags
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 13 Dec 92 07:56:16 GMT

In article <Bz5LIp.5x8@news.iastate.edu> txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu writes:
>Don't have a sowing machen then just get a hand neadle and thread and
>sow with your hands. What Hand sowing a dead art? ops. I'm probly just
>about the only one (out side of the omish ect) who's hand sowing is as
>good as a mecheans. To much time spent inside because of asthma and the
>temp, or polin, or humidity. Domage (how ever its spelled-cant spell in 
>any languig:))

Elf-kin,

I am also a hand-sewer, simply because I can't afford a machine.  My
stitches are very small and even, and I wouldn't imagine a machine doing
better.  When you can shift and even out the cloth by hand, it's FAR
better -- especially when you're crushingly nearsighted.

Blessings,
Janis


Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: adams@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Brynach ap Adda)
Subject: Re: Meaning of pentagram, pentacle for You
Organization: St. Olaf College; Northfield, MN
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:08:59 GMT

As a non-Wiccan, I don't attach any particular mystical significance
to the pentagram, except perhaps as a rather general charm representing
positive energy and spiritual power. I wear a Celtic cross, which is
a more ancient and thoroughly Pagan symbol of the old Celtic religion.
Unfortunately (perhaps), it is also a thoroughly assimilated symbol,
worn by millions of Christians and indicating nothing at face value
except perhaps an appreciation of the Celtic heritage. So I wear a 
pentagram to express my ties to the greater Pagan community, even
though this isn't a native British religious symbol.

pob hwyl,

Brynach
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Start again.
Date: 15 Dec 1992 15:15:30 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <gate.oBmmVB1w165w@pil.UUCP> alizard@pil writes:
> 
>excellent question.      Problem with it is that makework jobs are
>extremely expensive to create.  A question I have about it is, do we
>WANT to create new shitwork jobs to replace the old ones? And do people
>actually want shitwork jobs?
>blessings
>                                                 A.Lizard

I don't think creating new shitwork jobs is the answer. In fact, letting
machines do the shitwork is preferable. The problem this creates, however,
is that we now have a larger segment of the population that needs retraining
in other types of work. The union types (steel, auto and transportion in
particular) fight against this sort of thing. Yet they are one of the biggest
stumbling blocks to improving quality of life.

What's needed is vast improvement in retraining workers on a large scale,
and then creating jobs for these newly retrained individuals. Like moving
heavy industry into space. Hell, if I was given the opportunity to retrain
as an asteroid miner, I'd jump at the opportunity. We need to develop the
soace program to that point, while at the same time develop technology here
that makes a lower and lower impact on the environment. The two go hand in
hand. Our future is growth, and we're living in a limited space environment
if we stay planetbound. But I caution that we can't just drop everything
here in favour of going out there. The two have to work together. It's the
only way.

Bb,
Corun





-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra    |    My opinions *are* those of my boss, because
  Dark Horde by birth  |   he is me, and I am he, and we are all together.
    Moritu by choice   |                 Coo coo cachoob.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek)
Subject: Re: Santa Claus
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 03:27:49 GMT

dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:

>choice for the role of *Santa*?  Are any of the incarnations of Solstice
>gift giver more noticeably pagan?  Father Christmas doesn't cut it.
>Saint Nicholas obviously doesn't cut it.  Is Santa one of the purely
>Christian inventions for Christmas, or does he come over from some earlier
>pagan tradition?

Santa is NOT one of the purely Christian inventions for Christmas; he has
more Macy's and Gimble's in him than Christianity.  "Santa" as we know him
in the USA has nothing to do with the St. Nicholas of Christian tradition.


Paul Ciszek                      No nation was ever drunk when wine
                                 was cheap.
pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu                            --Thomas Jefferson
From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:45:41 GMT
Organization: Kaos Laboratories


In article <1992Dec12.235643.6171@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz) writes...

(much deleted about animal manure vs people manure as fertilizer)

>Does *anyone* know of *any* city that does a single-stage
>processing on their sewage and then sells the resulting sludge
>to local farmers?  Or even double-stage processing?
> 
>Fertile Blessings!
> 
>		-- radzy
> 

	I don't know about single stage, but in 1985 there was a sewage 
processing system in Arcata, CA that did something close. First the human waste 
was processed in treatment pools and liquified. Then it was sprayed over a 
pasture where goats ate the grasses. The goat manure was used as fertilizer by 
the farm. 

	This was a very small pool and system and appears to have been only a 
test model or something of the like. None-the-less, it seems to be a workable 
model and may still be in operation. I haven't been up there in years. 

	Anyone else?


					- Ashley
From: SL500000@brownvm.brown.edu (Robert Mathiesen)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Nomenclature./Men are Not witches!
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:28:18 EST
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

One poster claims that "necromancer" is the gender-neutral term covering the
gender-specific "witch" (female) and "warlock" (male).  This requires three
rejoinders:

(1) a necromancer is, obviously, one who practices the very specific and
specialized kind of magic called necromancy, which is a means of learning
the future (that's the "-mancy" part of the word) from the dead (that's the
"necro-" part of the word) whom one has called up.  The old woman who called
up the presumed spirit of Samuel for King Saul, in the Bible, was attempting
to prectice necromancy, and a seance to summon spirits is also necromancy in
my book;

(2) in English usage, although witches are stereotyped as female, the term
has always been able to include males as well; during the great persecutions
men were also convicted as "witches," not only women; in places where the
folklore of "witches" is still alive (in the Ozarks, or among the Pennsyl-
vania Dutch), men as well as women are thought to be witches;

(3) in modern Wiccan practice the term "witch" covers men as well as women
indifferently, and they have as much right as anyone to decide how they
shall be called.  -- Robert

(Robert Mathiesen, Brown University, SL500000@BROWNVM)
From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:12:03 GMT
Organization: Kaos Laboratories


In article <X73qVB1w165w@Circle.Raleigh.NC.US>, lance@Circle.Raleigh.NC.US (Lance A. Brown) writes...
>ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley) writes:

>> >Recycling PORCELAIN??? 

(clip)

>> Here we have a fine example of a product that could easily be made 
>> into something else or placed back in the ground. You laugh because 
>> the resourse is no where near being low. So I guess your idea of what 
>> is best to do with it is throw it in a landfill? Well I disagree. It 
>> should be processed so that the material does not *have* to sit in a 
>> landfill. The landfills are filling up and we are running out of room, 
>> so why not reprocess what we can so that it need not be there?
> 
>True, maybe we _can_ afford to take old porcelain and use it for shore 
>stabilization by breaking it into appropriate sized chunks instead of 
>grinding it all the way to powder.

Or using it in bricks, or concrete, or.........grinding it into powder is only 
one of many options for re-using this resourse, which is the whole point. If it 
is not seen as energy efficient, fine, we can find another use for it and 
preserve that vanishing resourse of space, which landfills take up a lot of.

> 
>My point is that it may cost us too much in terms of energy production and 
>resultant pollution to totally recycle some materials.  On the other hand, 
>there may be uses for these materials that are not so costly.
> 
>Lance
> 
> 
	Total recycle is a thing of the fututre, although if we desighned a 
product with the idea of it's disposal in mind, we could do it. I did not mean 
to open a can of worms on this, I was trying to use an example of something 
that takes up lots of room in landfills, yet doesn't need to be there. I could 
have picked any of a number of things, porcelain seemed to be a good one due to 
it's high presence and the material it's made from. I could have picked scrap 
wood, scrap metal, all sorts of stuff. The point is getting our technology to 
the point where we don't have to put so many things into the landfills, 
designing products with their end in mind, learning to clean up after ourselves.

	I'm gald you have seen my intention though. There are many things that 
we can use the materials in our landfills for. Pocelain would also make a nice 
component for breakwaters at costal marinas, filler in concrete, what have 
you. This is part of the challenge of evolving our conciousness, the next 
major step in evolution for the human race. 



				- Ashley
From: dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Santa Claus
Date: 14 Dec 1992 21:36:46 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

What do the parents here tell their kids about Santa Claus?  Is that
just part of the christian culture, or can we pagan-ize him?

I was all set to tell the baby that Santa doesn't really exist, because
I didn't think the "It's OK to be completely greedy at this time of year
because we're not paying for it" is a message that did me any good when
I was a kid.  But then I started looking at our neighbor's decorations
and I feel like an awful Scrooge saying "look sweetie, it's a capitalist
myth!"  And I want Alice to enjoy the same Christmas specials and songs
that I did as a kid.

So, anybody have any ideas on how we can sugarcoat him?

(Thank Goddess that I can still feel OK about the tree.)

Dawn

Joseph Campbell gave me hope and now I have been saved.
"Folk Song" by Bongwater