HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: I'm in a gay mood!
Date: 19 Aug 92 01:35:40 GMT
Organization: insert anything here

murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy) writes:
>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

>> 	Should this crew gain more power it will be interesting to
>> see how a further loss of rights to 25,000,000+ gays and lesbians in 
>> this country will affect them... or if anyof the mainstream will care.

>Gays and lesbians have more rights today than at any other time in history.

	In other words, next to none.  

>They won't be happy, however, until they cram their unnatural sexuality down
>everyone else's throats.  I use the word "unnatural" with much deliberation.

	In other words, next to none.

	Assignment #1: go and research what has been done to show your
statement here is patently false from both a biological standpoint
and a sociological standpoint.

>This lifestyle should not have equal standing with other lifestyles.  The
>distinction?  While it is good to teach your children that there is nothing
>wrong with or to be feared from a racial minority, such is not the case with
>this unnatural sexual preference minority.

	Assignment #2: Explain for us how you can possibly make this
work without causing another Holocaust...  

>I reject the "homophobic" label but proudly wear "homorepulsion."  I was
>better able to cope with them when they stayed in their little closets - I
>wish they'd go back and lock the door behind them.

	So, Brian I'm all ears --- what do you plan to do about your
repulsion?  How should our society solve this problem?  Remember, pushing
it off somewhere else doesn't work...  Seriously though, homophobia, like
all other phobias can be helped with therapy.  I'm sure you could
find someone to take on your case if you looked.

BBC, waiting for the day when
bigots have to hide in the 
closet
From: murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: Sex ed in school (WHY JONNY CAN'T READ MUSIC)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 22:00:27 EDT
Reply-To: murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy)
Organization: The Business Card (BBS), Lawrence, MA - Data: 508-682-5329

dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks) writes:

> Music, like sports (are you against football, Brian?)

I am - in school.  Music is great, football is fine, but in SCHOOL?  No.

> smuggles into it lessons that go far beyond the mere technical
> accomplishment.  These lessons benefit all of society.  And it would need
> a complete redesign of society to replace them outside the school context.

That's baloney (<tm> M. Dukakis).  All the lessons you learn from sports and
music are grand (team work, et.al.) but you don't need them taught in school;
they can well be taught in other venues like sandlot baseball and garage
bands.  "Complete redesign of society," indeed.  Redesign society to teach
teamwork.  Pshaw!

> I think Brian is by now obliged to describe, in detail, the society he wants
> to design.
> 
> First, start with a cadre of non-apathetic parents and parents-to-be...

As I argue against sex education in school, sliding into the rest of the
litany of extracurricular activities, I think we can all agree that we need a
voucher system for education.

We're spending, on average $5-6,000 per pupil in Massachusetts for lower and
lower test scores.  You take your pocketful of silver and spend it on teaching
your kids teamwork.  I'll take mine to teach my kids how to get a REAL job.
"Good jobs at good wages" comes from a good education.

I'm not a parent but I'm certainly not apathetic.  I'm perfectly willing to do
some of the work myself like teaching my kids about sex, letting 'em out to
play in the afternoon and leave that which I cannot do a good job of like
teaching them how to read to the professionals.

                         Your friend in Lawrence, Massachusetts...
                                      - - - Murph

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Newsgroups: ne.politics
From: dlw@odi.com (Dan Weinreb)
Subject: Re: Sex ed in school
Reply-To: dlw@odi.com
Organization: Object Design, Inc.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 05:14:21 GMT

In article <D1JPPB1w165w@buscard.fidonet.org> murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy) writes:

   dlw@odi.com (Dan Weinreb) writes:

   > murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy) writes:
   > 
   >    No, a mother who cannot afford adequate medical care should not be having 
   >    babies.
   > 
   > I really cannot believe that you said this.  So only well-off people
   > should have kids.  What a great solution.

   Is there something wrong with my statement?  Do you think it's a good idea to
   be having babies you can't care for?  What is your definition of child-abuse?

As I explained in a previous posting, I didn't say that it is a good
idea to have babies that you can't care for.  Indeed, it is not a good
idea.  I said that it is unreasonable (to say the least) to say that
if you cannot personally afford to pay, let's say, the individual rate
for Harvard Community Health Plan, it is immoral for you to have a
child.  By that logic, as health care gets more and more costly, and
as you insist that it should be paid individually, it would be immoral
for anyone but the very well-off to have children; that is clearly
wrong.  If there were national health insurance, I'd have no trouble
with your statement as you put it, since everyone would be able to
afford health care for their children.

   The nub of the debate is that there are some real and serious consequences for
   sexual intercourse without knowing what you're doing and getting into.

No, that is not the nub of the debate.  We already agree about it.

   old saw goes: "If you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself."

You keep that in mind if you ever need your appendix removed.

Newsgroups: ne.politics
From: bzs@ussr.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Foreign policy musings, THE REAL PRICE OF OIL
Organization: The World
	<Bt6Dw1.9CF@world.std.com> <2796988236@dwetzel.mis.stratus.com>
	<1992Aug20.050819.28422@odi.com> <2797170305@dwetzel.mis.stratus.com>
	<BZS.92Aug20204117@ussr.std.com> <2456@mitech.com> <2457@mitech.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 04:05:28 GMT


From: gjc@mitech.com (George J. Carrette)
>[Dont' you hate it when people followup their own articles?]

I would have to read mine to find a reason to followup, but then
what's the point in both of us being bored?

>> That $50 a barrel price and the economic impact would have
>> been a crisis for every elected leader of a western country.
>
>Furthermore, that price would have made it a heck of a lot
>more difficult on the new-free countries of eastern europe.
>Those countries were dependant on the Soviet Union (at the time)
>for their energy supplies.

Yes, but only if I first accept your assumption of $50/bbl oil, which
I don't. There are lots of folks who would love to have this control,
Hussein isn't the only one, thus far, no dice. It's been made much
harder than it was 20 years ago to do this.

>> Therefore I beleive that every U.S. Senator that voted against
>> the January "Desert Storm" ...
>
>Was also voting against the breakup of the soviet union.

It was pretty much broke up at the time.

No, I think they really believed that the World Bank et al could take
Hussein out sufficiently. It's comforting to attribute stupidity to
those we disagree with, but it's not always so.

I think that's what it really came down to, imperfect intelligence on
exactly how long it would take Hussein to put together even a crude
atom bomb and cause some real trouble. Or, possibly, find some other
way to aggravate everyone (marching into Qatar or something.)

--
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD
From: murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: I'm in a gay mood!
Date: 23 Aug 92 03:09:58 GMT
Reply-To: murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy)
Organization: The Business Card (BBS), Lawrence, MA - Data: 508-682-5329

bzs@ussr.std.com (Barry Shein) writes:

> 
> From: murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy)
> >I like llamas.  My favorite newsgroups are alt.sex.gerbils.duct-tape and
> >alt.sex.aluminum.baseball.bat.  I demand the same rights as the homos.
> >
> >Should I have them?
> 
> So long as you don't hurt anyone who cares what you're into.
> 
> Do you mean that therefore you SHOULDN'T be allowed to rent an
> apartment for the mere transfer of money?

No, I don't mean that.  I mean that you should have control over your own
property, that one man's money may not be as valuable to you as another's.
Suppose you don't like the fact that I seem to have an inordinate fondness for
those furry balls of fun?  Suppose you decide that you don't want that sort of
perversion or flakiness going on on your property?  Should you have the right
to not rent to me should you desire?

Suppose your children attended the classroom I taught in and I always carried
the cage where my favorite gerbil makes his home.  Suppose gerbil-loving was
as "accepted" as homosexuality and that it was understood that I had the same
fondness for this gerbil that some might have for a member of the opposite
sex.  Suppose you didn't accept a beastiality lifestyle as equal to a
heterosexual lifestyle.  As a taxpayer paying my salary, wouldn't you want a
say about this?

Now, suppose I kept this fetish a secret in a dark corner of my closet and you
never knew.  That'd be a different story, right?  Same with gay teachers.  If
they're flaming homos, lose them for the bad role models that they are.

> So when the next bum comes along and says ``The Irish, they're as bad
> as homos, a bunch of drunken terrorists'' ya gonna be able to tell
> them they don't have a right to single YOU out?

Don't you think you're comparing apples to oranges?  Nationality is not a
lifestyle.

What I'm trying to get you to agree to is that a line has to be drawn
SOMEWHERE.  How about a convicted felon teaching your kids?  Is that OK?  How
about renting your apartment to a wife/child beater?  HOW ABOUT RENTING TO A
LAWYER OR <gulp> AN EVANGELIST?

                                      - - - Murph

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Newsgroups: ne.politics
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: Which shall it be: education or socializing?
Organization: insert anything here
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:22:59 GMT

	Gack.

	I tend not to question things I feel strongly about,
but having Brian Murphy *agree* wqith me is enough
to make any sane person reflect.

	How can I set this straight?

	Ah yes -  Biran I forgot to mention
that I strongly support the hiring of out gays and lesbians as teachers
to support diversity in our communities.

	There - that should do it.

BBC
From: roby@chopin.udel.edu (Scott W Roby)
Subject: Re: Abortion: What does Warren say?
Organization: University of Delaware
Distribution: ne
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 02:26:55 GMT


Forgive the interruption of this dialogue, but could we change 
the title?  

How about "What does the Bible say?" ?
That would not offend my meager religious sensibilities.
The way it is currently written makes it sound like either 
God is writing to the net or that someone writing to the
net presumes to speak for God.

I find either interpretation blasphemous.

So, please change the title -- Thank you.


Sorry for the interruption.


-- 
Scott W. Roby           *This sentence no verb.*      "No Matter where you go..
Phys.& Astr.Dept.    ///// / /  /  *|*  \  \ \ \\\\\      there you are!"
Univ.of Delaware    ((((( ( (  (  * + *  )  ) ) )))))   -> Buckaroo Banzai
roby@brahms.udel.edu \\\\\ \ \  \  *|*  /  / / /////   *Standard Disclaimer*
Newsgroups: ne.politics
From: bzs@ussr.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Foreign policy musings
Organization: The World
	<Bt6Dw1.9CF@world.std.com> <2796988236@dwetzel.mis.stratus.com>
	<1992Aug20.050819.28422@odi.com> <2797170305@dwetzel.mis.stratus.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 01:41:17 GMT


[Might you consider fixing your news software, it puts your own mail
address into all the Newsgroups: and Followup-To: fields.]

First, you haven't addressed the issue of Saddam's taking of US
hostages. Do you consider that of any import in the decision making
leading to the war?

Second, you claim that the US et al were motivated solely by
(simplistic) economic reasons.

Why?

If we were only motivated by oil economics we could have just arranged
to buy our Kuwaiti oil from Saddam and be done with it. Certainly we
had no particular interest in whether or not he paid Kuwait his debts
(or if we were you haven't explained why.)

Even with Kuwait, Iraq did not control enough of the world's oil to
affect the price he could get on the open market. This is clearly
evidenced by the fact that for several months after the war there was
no Kuwaiti or Iraqi oil, and I don't remember any particular crisis in
either price or supply.

You have to make your point, thus far all you've been doing is
eliminating what it can't be and then concluding that if it can't be
A, B, or C, then it must be D (i.e. your hypothesis.) That's not
credible.


--
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD
Newsgroups: ne.politics
From: jturner@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Jeffrey Turner)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: Foreign policy musings
Date: 22 Aug 92 16:37:54 GMT
	<BZS.92Aug18194424@ussr.std.com>
	<JTURNER.92Aug21203351@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu>
	<BZS.92Aug21235020@ussr.std.com>
Organization: College of Engineering, Northeastern University
In-reply-to: bzs@ussr.std.com's message of 22 Aug 92 04:50:20 GMT

In article <BZS.92Aug21235020@ussr.std.com> bzs@ussr.std.com (Barry Shein) writes:

   From: jturner@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Jeffrey Turner)

> >It may even have been made
> >before the Iraqi invasion (at least the decision to go to war
> >SOMEPLACE).
> Hmm, last message you were claiming that the US invited (your word)
> the Iraqis to invade and indicated we'd offer no resistance.
> Not sure you can have it both ways.

	The two are not mutually contradictory.  If the decision
to go to war had already been made then it makes perfect sense
to invite an invasion which "calls for US retaliation".

> Some day if someone takes your family hostage for a few months and
> then lets them go let's see if you decide to let bygones be bygones...

	I don't believe it was the families of the hostages who
declared war.  Then again I don't believe anyone declared war.
And why is war the only alternative to letting bygones be bygones?
And if that was indeed the case why is the chief hostage taker still
at his country's, and military's, helm and not facing trial?

					--Jef Turner
From: usenet@transfer.stratus.com (Mr. Network News)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: Abortion: What does God say?
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:25:34 GMT
Reply-To: Dave_Wetzel@vos.stratus.com
Organization: Dave_Wetzel

In article <1992Aug12.164341.27235@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> 
europa@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (r.j.capik) writes:
> Just an observation here. Why is it that the "word of God" seems
> to be quoted just about exclusively from the Bible?
...
> Are we all so poorly educated (by our government schools) that
> the only "moral literaturature" we know is the Bible?
> 

That would be my guess.

--------------
Dave_Wetzel@vos.stratus.com
From: murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: Abortion- Kill/Save
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 00:00:11 EDT
Reply-To: murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy)
Organization: The Business Card (BBS), Lawrence, MA - Data: 508-682-5329

gjc@mitech.com (George J. Carrette) writes:

> In article <Bt1u39.3yF@world.std.com>, cmr@world.std.com (Charles M Richmond)
> > 	JERUSALEM (UPI) -- An Israeli woman being treated with fertility drugs
> > ... and that most would have to be removed.
> > 
> > So how does the pro-life crowd respond to this situation????

> So your pro-life crowd would say, gosh, isn't it too bad that
> abortion is so highly promoted and commercialized. If adoption
> were so promoted maybe there would be less of a market for
> this run-a-muck "fertility drug" and implantation thing.

Man, truer words were never spoken - I heavily fault my own Roman Catholic
Church for their miserable failure in many social matters.  Adoption is just
one of them.  I yearn for the days when the priests would visit the homes.  I
got turned off when they started insisting that we couldn't drape caskets of
our veterans with the American flag during funeral services.

                                      - - - Murph

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From: richb@kronos.com (Rich Braun)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: In politics, why ask why?
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:10:42 GMT
Organization: Kronos Inc. / Waltham, MA
Disclaimer: This posting is a personal opinion and not that of Kronos Inc.

dlw@odi.com (Dan Weinreb) writes:
>> The Bush administration, when it
>> put the sanctions in place, said that they would be effective; then it
>> changed its mind.  The CIA was also saying that they'd be effective.
>> While, in retrospect, it looks now as if they really never would have
>> been effective, that was not clear at the time.

Natch.  Even I as a semi-liberal Democrat knew the sanctions were a silly
waste of time; I never could figure out why anyone would believe in such
foolishness.

But we seem not to have learned our lesson.  Haiti and Bosnia-
Hersegovinia (does anyone *really* know how to spell or say that
name?) are living examples of the failure of economic sanctions.  Bush
is still obsessed with tired old Saddam, and not doing anything about
these other problems.  So much for his 'expertise' at foreign policy.

Time for the Democrats to demonstrate how we can set an example for the
rest of the world, and perhaps even extend a helping hand.  Sometimes that
hand will hold food and supplies, and sometimes it'll have to hold an
assault rifle.  That's the price of civilization.

-rich
From: borden@cfa.harvard.edu (Dave Borden)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: Give 'em a Right then a Left
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:55:05 GMT
Reply-To: borden@m5.harvard.edu
Organization: Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA,  USA

In article <1992Aug7.222357.10633@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>>murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy) writes:
>>
>>   There's no getting around the fact that children and society as a whole
>>   does better when families consist of a mother _and_ a father.  
>
>	So what you're saying is that children who live in a family
>with one parent dead are "not as good" as those in families with
>both parents living?  No matter what rationalization you put to this,
>you *are8 saying this in effect.
>
>	Idiot.
>
>BBC

No, you're the idiot.  You're warping Brian Murphy's statement in order
to be able to jump on it, which I consider dishonest.  He simply did not
say what you said he said.

I'm not taking a side on the issue itself - I'm just against intellectual
dishonesty and unjustified insults.


   - Dave Borden
     borden@m5.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: ne.politics
From: bzs@ussr.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Sex ed in school (WHY JONNY CAN'T READ MUSIC)
Organization: The World
	<BZS.92Aug15194940@ussr.std.com> <1992Aug16.033043.25116@spdcc.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 05:16:39 GMT


From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
>>So we don't end up with more dimwits like yourself who apparently can
>>read and write but haven't the foggiest idea why they do so.
>
>	Do you know something we don't?  There hasn't been any indication 
>that Mr. Murphy can actually read and comprehend on this forum.

Good point. I retract my claims.

--
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD
From: murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Barry Shein:  Has he ANYTHING constructive to lend to debate?
Summary: Shein's got more problems than just Mr. Murphy.
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 22:17:01 EDT
Reply-To: murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy)
Organization: The Business Card (BBS), Lawrence, MA - Data: 508-682-5329

I dunno what Mr. Shein's problem is but he seems to have nothing to lend to
any debate except background noise.

Name calling:  The best indication of a failing position in debate.  Note his
judicious use of it.  If he has an original thought, I'm sure we'd be
interested in hearing it but so far, all he's been able to offer is slamming
one position or another.  Pointing out deficiencies without offering a better
alternative is worse than useless - it's disruptive.

Until he comes to his senses, I, for one, will discount his rantings and
ravings as nothing more than emotionalism - certainly nothing to base a debate
on.

                                      - - - Murph

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From: gjc@mitech.com (George J. Carrette)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: some good things about sex ed in schools
Date: 14 Aug 92 10:33:25 GMT
Organization: Mitech Corporation, Concord MA

A very good thing about Sex education in schools
is that it forces the parents who care
to PREPARE THEIR CHILDREN FOR SEX EDUATION.

Another thing that goes on in sex eduation in schools,
starting with grade "K" is to introduce children
to the tools to describe experiences such that
they could report their own parents who may
be sexually abusing them at home.

On the other hand, I think condom distribution in schools
is pretty stupid. OK. Hand out ONE sample to each person
in a sex education class. A school can probably even
get such samples free from the manufacturers.

But regular distribution? With per-student quota/limits?
Stupid. There are plenty of places to purchase the devices.
The school doesn't hand out free paper and pencils. 

And what about when school is not in session? e.g.
during the long hot summer? Isn't bad to have ones
supply of condoms radically cut-off during those months?
How about having kids get into the habit of going
to the drug store? Oh. Some kids are too shy?
Still, what about the summer?

If the school isn't able to train kids to purchase
condoms if they need them, then the school has failed
to educate on that point. 

Handing out a continuing supply of condoms is an admission
of failure and an invitation to dependancy and lazyness.

-gjc