From: gisle@ifi.uio.no (Gisle Hannemyr)
Subject: Re: PV equation
Organization: gisle@ifi.uio.no
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 07:52:18 GMT
Originator: gisle@gyda.ifi.uio.no

In article <HouJuB1w165w@throb.mcws.fidonet.org> hardman@throb.mcws.fidonet.org (Bill Hardman) writes:
>> gisle@ifi.uio.no (Gisle Hannemyr) writes:
>>> In article <g6c0TB2w165w@throb.mcws.fidonet.org> hardman@throb.mcws.fidonet.o
>>>> gisle@ifi.uio.no (Gisle Hannemyr) writes:
>>>>> In article <ykD5TB1w165w@throb.mcws.fidonet.org> hardman@throb.mcws.fidone
>>>>> gisle@ifi.uio.no (Gisle Hannemyr) writes:
>>>>>> on the result.  So again, EXACTLY WHY DOES THIS PARTICULAR RANGE OF
>>>>>> VALUES MAKE MORE SENSE THAN ANY OTHER RANGE ONE MAY HAPPEN TO THINK
>>>>>> OF?
>>>>> I'll help you answer this yourself.  What are you trying to
>>>>> discover?
>>>> Thanks, Bill, I appreciate your help!
>>>> I am trying to discover how to apply this equation.
>>> You've mis-understood the question.  What are you trying to discover
>>> with the equation?
>>>> Now, that I have answered your question, can you please answer mine?
>>> You haven't answered the question.  Read it slowly this time.
>> You see Bill, I'm not really trying to discover anything _with_ the
>> the equation, because at the moment I'm quite convinced that this
>> equation doesn't make sense algebraically or physically -- and was in
>> fact concocted by a charlatan who wanted his mindless ramblings (yeah,
>> I'm talking about "Dianetics -- the Modern Science of Mental Health")
>> to appear "scientific" to an audience who also didn't know the first
>> thing about algebra and physics.
>> 
>> So I can't see the point in trying to discover anything _with_ the
>> equation until someone, with better training and more understanding
>> of these matters (that's you) has managed to explain to me how to
>> make sense of this equation in the first place.

> Fair enough.  Now could we agree that using an I.Q. test, done with
> standard testing practices could be used for the value of "I" in the
> equation?

No.

And if you give my another of your famous psychoteraphy sessions for
my tendency to "belittle" my opponent (i.e. explaining real slowly
what's patently obvious to anyone with high-school level knowledge
of algebra), I shall explain why I give that answer:

Several people in this thread has tried to explain this strange thing
call "units" to you, but (as is also evident in your latest response
to Richard: "The unit of measurement is assigned by the person doing
the equation, usually the units that the person is familiar with.")
so far, we have failed to get this idea across to you.

Your observation that inches and meters are interchangable (yes, they
are!) as led you into the trap of "generalization" -- which is a major
sin in some circles I have been told -- and you know seem to believe
that all units that seem to measure the same "thing" are
interchangeable.

This is not so.  For instance, you seem to think that when dealing with
physics equations that contains measurements of temperature, people
familiar with Fahrenheit should use Fahrenheit, those familiar with
Celsius should use Celsius.  Not so!  Only one unit of measurement
work in the basic equations (i.e. those uncomplicated by build-in
conversion factors), and that is Kelvin (which almost no-one is familiar
with as a unit of measurement for temperature).  No other unit will
work!

So, from the example with temperature, it should be clear to you that
for some metrics, the process of assigning a unit is not as trivial as
selecting the unit the person is familiar with.  Some units work, some
don't (the reasons for this is rooted in standard algebra, and you should
be able to figure out the rules for yourself).

Now, to return to "standard" IQ (i.e. Stanford-Binet) and why it
doesn't make sense to use it as a unit in this sort of equation: As
has been discussed to death in MENSA circles lately, this unit happens
to have the same unfortunate properties as Fahrenheit and Celsius: it
has an arbitrary assigned base number (100), and an arbitrary assigned
scaling factor -- and we can do all sort of weird tricks with
equations containing terms like that, making them compute whatever we
like by playing with the base and scale.





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- gisle hannemyr  (Norsk Regnesentral)
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