HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ks@stat.tamu.edu (Kurt F. Sauer)
Subject: Where are the Camps & Clinics? (was: Re: USCF training camp)
Organization: A&M Cycling Team, Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 04:37:06 GMT

In his article, john.t.erhardt wrote:
>I've heard about the USCF training camps ...

When I joined the USCF, I was given a slick brochure printed by the Federation
called "Take the lead" (which I still have) and which has a section titled,
"USCF Programs: Development Camps, Clinics, Seinars, and Training Opportuni-
ties."

In this section, it says, "Development camps and clinics are conducted at
both sites [USOTC in Colorado Springs and Lake Pacid, NY] for first and
second year riders with emphasis placed on skills development." 

My question is, why haven't I heard of any of these camps or clinics?  They
are *not* talking about the Bicycling clinics (these are referred to later
on in the pamphlet).  I'm no national team rider, but I could benefit from a
camp for second year racers.  Did I miss the advertisement for it?  (I relig-
iously read Cycling USA and Velo-News; it wasn't there.)  All of the OTC de-
velopment programs I've seen are for "1's, 2's, and, if space permits, some
selected 3's."  That doesn't sound like it's targeted for first and second
year riders unless you're Lance Armstrong...

Anyone else know what the deal is?  I think someone might have put it in the
pamphlet but forgot to develop the program to make the claim true...
--
Kurt F. Sauer
College Station, Texas

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: roadman@leland.Stanford.EDU (arthur walker)
Subject: Re: Rule Change for 1993: Lapped riders not eligible for primes
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 03:24:26 GMT

Bruce Hildenbrand thinks that if you're lapped by at
least as many as place in each remaining prime and
finish sprint, you oughta be outa there.  If it's a crit
instead of a points race.  Tough luck for the flashy
mega-sprinters who detonate after winning the crowd
prime or just can't hang with the all-arounders or
who miss the fat break that laps the field.

Well, that's what he thinks.  It comes from his 
conception of what bike racing is all about, I guess.

Here's what I think.  I think crits are for crowds.
Crowds want to see high speed sprints; they don't
want nelson vails or his 90s equivalent precluded
from contesting these sprints because his legs 
turned into blocks of lead for a couple of minutes
after a big prime sprint.  So let them see their
sprints, if it makes them a bigger economic unit
for the sponsor's advertising; "good for the sport"
and all that.  And forget what the Europeans do;
bruce is The Expert on moving the discussion across
the pond to jack up his Relative Level of Authority.
So make the crowds happy and let those gutless
sprinters who never did suffer in training but just
lucked into the right parents continue to think 
they're Real Bike Racers. 

Let'em play.

art walker
ahw@egret0.stanford.edu


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: weird@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (john.t.erhardt)
Subject: USCF training camp.
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 18:15:45 GMT

I've heard about the USCF training camps where one pays $50 for a week
of intense training.  All you have to do is get there.   

Does anyone know the dates of these things and locations (are they all in 
Colorado Springs?)

I talked to someone who just came back from one.  He said he learned a lot
of "secrets".

Thanks

John


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: soltau@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (Lars Soltau)
Subject: Re: no Alpe d'Huez on 93 Tour!!!
Organization: Informatik, Univ. Stuttgart. W.Germany
	<1992Oct10.064209.9126@netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:37:35 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.064209.9126@netcom.com> tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:

   Hampsten and Chiapucci both proved beyond a doubt this year that
   they _aren't_ just climbers. They both finished well if not
   outstandingly in the ITT's. If these TT's were shorter there is
   every reason to believe that these two would be competitive. In the
   last ITT Hampsten was doing very well for the frst half and dropped
   only slightly for the rest of the ride.

And if the TTs were shorter, that rear wheel sucker Indurain who was
almost never seen leading an attack during this Tour, would at last
have to yield to Chiapucci, who IMO would have been s far more
deserving winner.
From: ogg@physics.carleton.ca
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: no Alpe d'Huez on 93 Tour!!!
Date: 13 Oct 92 15:38:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: physics.1992Oct13.103839.1
Organization: Dept. of Physics/CRPP Carleton University

>>I think that's a rather unfortunate use of "death climb" - wasn't that
>>the climb on which Tom (?) Simpson collapsed?
> 
> I can understand why Tom Simpson died, I was about ready to join him
> when I got to his memorial!  No disrespect intended, this is one tough
> climb.  You should have seen the look on Andy Hampsten's face when I
> told him the climb would be in the 1994 TdF(TIOOYK).

For those of you not steeped in British cycling history: Simpson was using
"performance enhancing" drugs (I don't remember which one) and unfortunately
provided the cycling world with a case history of why that is not a smart thing
to do.  Whereas you and I have natural feedback mechanisms which prevent us
going over the edge (tho we may bonk or barf), Simpson's had been
short-circuited.  A helicopter took him off the mountain, but he died within
the hour.
Trivia quiz: in which year's TdeF did this happen?

Mike

  +-------------------------------------------------------------------+
  |  Michael Ogg           |  e-mail:    ogg@physics.carleton.ca      |
  |     currently at:      |      or:    ogg@lns62.tn.cornell.edu     |
  |  Wilson Lab            |                                          |
  |  Cornell University    |  voice:     (607) 255-4882               |
  |  Ithaca, NY 14853      |  fax:       (607) 255-8062               |
  +-------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Huber rides Cheetah at 68.73 mph
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 23:13:35 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.204926.19124@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:
>I haven't noticed any mention here of the new HPV land speed record
>even though it was set several weeks ago, so I'll tell what I know.
>On September 22, Chis Huber rode a faired recumbent bicycle called
>Cheetah at a speed of 68.73 mph (110.61 kph) on a flat road in the San
>Luis Valley in Colorado at an altitude of 7,600 feet (2316 meters).
>Cheetah was designed by Kevin Frantz, Jon Garbarino, and James
>Osborne, who began the project as students at the University of
>California, Berkeley.

I was talking to someone (forget who) who seemed to know alot about this
record. I was told that the Gold Rush was a two way run while the
Chris Huber ride was one way and with too much wind for the record.

>This speed run over a 200 meter distance was supervised by officials
>of the International Human Powered Vehicle Association, which is
>expected to recognize the new record shortly.  If approved, it will
>surpass the record of 65.48 mph set in September 1985 by Fast Freddie
>Markham riding Gardner Martin's Gold Rush recumbent bike.  That
>record, set at a similar altitude on a road near Mono Lake,
>California, won the the DuPont Prize.
>
>Both Huber and Markham developed their cycling skills on the Northern
>California bicycle racing circuit.  The designers of their machines
>also live in the area.

It is clear that a very strong rider can make a recumbent move at
extraordinary speeds over short distances. What I would like to see
is recumbents allowed in individual time trials. Then we would
really see what we would see.
>
From: holliday@cse.unl.edu (david holliday)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: no Alpe d'Huez on 93 Tour!!!
Date: 14 Oct 1992 18:59:02 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: cse.unl.edu

ogg@physics.carleton.ca writes:

[ ... the Tom Simpson thing deleted ... ]

>Trivia quiz: in which year's TdeF did this happen?

1967 - I think a guy named Roger Pingeon (sp) won the TdF that year.

The next time the Tour visited Mt. Ventoux was in 1987. The riders were
treated to a time trial up the mountain. (Jean-Francois Bernard won the
time trial, BTW).

Sorry if my facts aren't straight, this is just from memory.

Dave
----
From: dawson@willard.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Rule Change for 1993: Lapped riders not eligible for primes
Date: 10 Oct 92 03:34:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: willard.m4sesB1w165w
Organization: Willard's House BBS, Atlanta, GA -- +1 (404) 664 8814

ks@stat.tamu.edu (Kurt F. Sauer) writes:

> F.Y.I.:
> Kathy Volski tells me that rule 3D5, Primes, has been modified such that
> lapped riders will no longer be eligible for primes.

Of any sort?  This is too much.  I don't like over-regulation, and I believe
this falls into that category.  Why not leave this up the race organizer's
discretion?  What is the reasoning behind this ruling?

> 
> Ciao.
> --
> Kurt F. Sauer
> College Station, Texas


-- 
dawson@willard.UUCP (Willard Dawson)
Willard's House BBS, Atlanta, GA -- +1 (404) 664 8814
From: goffredo.beckstrand@EMCB.CC.UTAH.EDU (GOFFREDO L BECKSTRAND)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: catalogs
Keywords: catalogs
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:05:44 GMT
Organization: University of Utah

I've lost the number for performance and bike nashbar.
Could someone send their 800#s please?
	thanks Jeffrey
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: ams@watson.ibm.com (Aaron Shtromas)
Subject: Re: no Alpe d'Huez on 93 Tour!!!
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 12:14:17 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
Followup-To:  Re: no Alpe d'Huez on 93 Tour!!!


-- 
In article <SOLTAU.92Oct12173735@orgel.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de>, soltau@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (Lars Soltau) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct10.064209.9126@netcom.com> tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
|> 
|>    Hampsten and Chiapucci both proved beyond a doubt this year that
|>    they _aren't_ just climbers. They both finished well if not
|>    outstandingly in the ITT's. If these TT's were shorter there is
|>    every reason to believe that these two would be competitive. In the
|>    last ITT Hampsten was doing very well for the frst half and dropped
|>    only slightly for the rest of the ride.
|> 
|> And if the TTs were shorter, that rear wheel sucker Indurain who was
|> almost never seen leading an attack during this Tour, would at last
|> have to yield to Chiapucci, who IMO would have been s far more
|> deserving winner.

oh, pipe down! chiappa is a unique phenomenon. the last rider that rode like
that was hinault. while i would have preferred chiappucci as a winner,
indurain is definitely not a wheel sucker. not any more than lemond, anyway.

aaron
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: naru@eng.umd.edu (Naruhisa Takashima)
Subject: What to write on a "standard form"
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 14:39:36 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park
Originator: naru@valkyrie.eng.umd.edu


Hi, the flyer for a race which I want to enter read that I should send a check 
and a standard form to enter the race. My question is what constitutes a 
standard form?  What informations do I need to supply the race director?

Thanks in advance,
Naru Takashima

p.s. I just started racing a couple of month ago, and 
    I've only raced in local weekly races, so I've never had to mail in an entry form. :)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: sfarrell@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Shawn Farrell)
Subject: Re: La Vuelta a Dia de la Raza (Chihuahua, Mexico)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 17:32:09 GMT
Distribution: USA
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <Bw4Ds4.C5M@rice.edu> shenry@cs.rice.edu (Sam Henry) writes:
>In article <mlppqq@lynx.unm.edu> warsa@polaris.unm.edu (j warsa) writes:
>>The following is a race report describing the La Vuelta a Dia de La Raza
>>(Tour of the Day of the People) in the Chihuahua province of Northern 
>>Mexico held on 9-12 October 1992. ...
>
>Good race report!!  Thanks.
>
>And congratulations to you and your team.
>
>>The Seventh Annual La Vuelta a Dia de la Raza ... is traditionally
>>used for preparation by Mexican riders for their national Tour of
>>Mexico, beginning later this  month. 
>
>Now that you, too, are prepared, are you going to ride that one, too?
>Whether you do or not, send any information you hear about it, please.
>You know as well as anyone how hard it is to get news on North
>American racing.  Hell, any news in North America about bicycle racing
>anywhere.
>
In case anyone is interested, I just got a fax from the organizer of the
Ruta Mexico, saying that the race has been postponed because of technical
difficulties. The Ruta is now scheduled for February 24 thru March 7.

Shawn Farrell (sfarrell@vines.colostate.edu)
From: dkw@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (David Wittenberg)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Huber rides Cheetah at 68.73 mph
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:18:23 GMT
Organization: Brandeis University Computer Science

|> >
|> Both records were set on a one way run. At least for the new record the
|> wind was measured during the test and was legal (a slight crosswind I was
|> told). There have been rumors about the record that Fred originally set
|> near Mono Lake, but I have no reason to believe them. These rumors are
|> unfortunate because they tend to stick around and damage the credibility
|> of the record. Often they start as, "Wow, he couldn't possibly have gone
|> 68 mph, there must have been a tailwind."
|> 

I can't speak for the land record, but I was an official observer at a
(successful) attempt to set a new woman's speed record on water.  As
required by the IHPVA, there were two observers, and we checked the
wind before and after each record attempt.  This is what the IHPVA
requires for all record attempts, so I think  it very likely that any
IHPVA recognized record was run with a legal tailwind.  There is a
period when people can challenge any record attempt before it becomes
official.  That period is several months.  If there was any doubt
about the conditions, I expect someone would come forward.

--David Wittenberg
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: L. Zinn article on countersteering
From: <PWRIGHT@MIAMIU.BITNET>
Date: Monday, 12 Oct 1992 10:19:57 EDT
Organization: Miami University - Academic Computer Service

Does anyone out there have a copy of the article by Lennard Zinn on counter-
steering that appeared in Velonews last Winter? If so could you please get in
touch with me. I would be glad to pay for photo-copying and postage. Thanks,
 
                                                           Paul
From: ks@stat.tamu.edu (Kurt F. Sauer)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Summary of changes in USCF regulations
Date: 7 Oct 92 18:42:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: tamsun.1992Oct7.184256.11895
	<1992Oct7.141648.19783@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
Distribution: usa
Organization: A&M Cycling Team, Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas

In his article, Terry Thiel writes:
>
>Blah, blah, blah.  What has the USCF done to increase the enjoyment of our
>sport?  When are they going to get beyond their emphasis on bureacratic
>management of a handful of people.  What a bunch of weenies.
>-Terry

While I understand Terry's sentiment, I would point out that I, for one,
am grateful that the USCF has published a semi-coherent set of rules for
the sport.  I would not enjoy it much if the rules varied greatly from
place to place, or if there were multiple leagues for bicycle racing each
with its own set of rules.  I think that Les was simply trying to keep
people informed of the changes which occur from time to time in the rules.
--
Kurt F. Sauer
College Station, Texas
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: jbr1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Jarryl B. Ritchie)
Subject: Racing in Europe or elsewhere
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 13:45:46 GMT

I have a rider who is interested in racing in Europe or elsewhere sometime
in the spring as a month long tune up for the '93 season.  Any suggestions
and information about such arangements would be appreciated.  I attempted
to make a similar trip several years back and have some idea of the logistics
but would welcome other suggestions and information.

thanks

jay
jbr1@ra.msstate.edu
Cat III racer and coach
From: marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: no Alpe d'Huez on 93 Tour!!!
Date: 15 Oct 92 01:57:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: slc.1992Oct15.015728.14946
Distribution: na
Organization: Servio Corp, Beaverton Oregon, US

Bruce Hildenbrand (bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM) writes:

> For those of you into gearing, Andy said he rode a 39x23...

Did Andy have anything repeatable to say about LeMond's performance?

    Marc San Soucie
    Portland, Oregon
    marcs@slc.com
From: ja3a+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeffrey Jay Aurand)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Racing in Europe or elsewhere
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:23:42 GMT
	<1992Oct15.193056.3993@netcom.com>
Organization: Freshman, CIT general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

I was in Holland and Belgium last May, and you only need a USCF
international license.  Most races charge about $3.00 for a number, but
if you return the number, you get your money back.  Since I was in
northern Belgium and southern Holland, we raced on totally flat roads. 
It was always windy, and sometimes cold and wet, but not as often as I
had expected.  It would help to speak some Flemish for this area, but
most people speak some English so you could get by.  

Jeffrey Aurand
Carnegie Mellon University
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: ampe@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.e.ampe)
Subject: Re: Huber rides Cheetah at 68.73 mph
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:08:34 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.231335.1669@netcom.com> tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
>In article <1992Oct12.204926.19124@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:
>>I haven't noticed any mention here of the new HPV land speed record
>>even though it was set several weeks ago, so I'll tell what I know.
>>On September 22, Chis Huber rode a faired recumbent bicycle called
>>Cheetah at a speed of 68.73 mph (110.61 kph) on a flat road in the San
>>Luis Valley in Colorado at an altitude of 7,600 feet (2316 meters).
>>Cheetah was designed by Kevin Frantz, Jon Garbarino, and James
>>Osborne, who began the project as students at the University of
>>California, Berkeley.
>
>I was talking to someone (forget who) who seemed to know alot about this
>record. I was told that the Gold Rush was a two way run while the
>Chris Huber ride was one way and with too much wind for the record.

Huh?  How could Chris have set the record if there was "too much wind
for the record"?  Please explain.  He either set the record or he
didn't, and by all accounts he did.

John_Ampe@att.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: P.Skilbeck@lut.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Newsflash: Alcala & Alpe d'Huez
Reply-To: P.Skilbeck@lut.ac.uk (Paul Skilbeck)
Organization: Loughborough University, UK.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 12:36:02 GMT

In article <92276.155159SOND0091@HASARA11.BITNET> SOND0091@HASARA11.BITNET (Willem Boersma) writes:>Despite previous rumours that Raul Alcala would follow PDM's (form
 Alcala will be the "kopman", for
>which no English equivalent springs to mind (the main rider for
>the big tours, help me out here). 
The frugality of English language cycling terms remains something of an
embarrassment.  The terms you are looking for might be `star rider';
`team leader'; `protected rider'.  This is the best I can do without
asking an English speaking pro roadman.






>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Willem Boersma                           Bitnet:SOND0091@HASARA11
>SARA                                     Internet:wboersma@sara.nl
>Academic Computing Services Amsterdam
>The Netherlands                          "Suit yourself - I'm easy"
From: atkins@mksol.dseg.ti.com (William A Atkins)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: catalogs
Keywords: catalogs
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:50:48 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments

>I've lost the number for performance and bike nashbar.
>Could someone send their 800#s please?
>	thanks Jeffrey


I THINK THAT PERFORMANCE IS 1-800-PBS-BIKE.

Good luck 
Billy Atkins.
From: SJ81SANU@MIAMIU.BITNET
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: no Alpe d'Huez on 93 Tour!!!
Date: 8 Oct 92 23:14:49 GMT
Organization: Miami University - Academic Computer Service

Actually, I seem to recall Hampsten saying in Velo-News that he had to deal
with a lot of shoving on the way up the Alpe, although he wasn't knocked down.
That may have gone unnoticed by many because it wasn't telivised (as opposed to
Chiappucci on his stage win).
 
As far as eliminating it, I've heard tell that while the Alpe is very
difficult due to it's many switchbacks, there are many other climbs both longer
 and steeper. I think that the Tour must be a dynamic and changing race, and
having some particular stage always stifles that. Also, it'd be nice if there
was a little more climbing this year. If nothing else, it'll at least make the
race more interesting, rather than having Indurain a complete shoo-in.
 
 
                       Jaws
From: ampe@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.e.ampe)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Where are the Camps & Clinics? (was: Re: USCF training camp)
Date: 11 Oct 92 18:50:13 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Oct11.043706.9854@tamsun.tamu.edu> ks@stat.tamu.edu (Kurt F. Sauer) writes:
>In his article, john.t.erhardt wrote:
>>I've heard about the USCF training camps ...

>My question is, why haven't I heard of any of these camps or clinics?  They
>are *not* talking about the Bicycling clinics (these are referred to later
>on in the pamphlet).  I'm no national team rider, but I could benefit from a
>camp for second year racers.  Did I miss the advertisement for it?  (I relig-
>iously read Cycling USA and Velo-News; it wasn't there.) 

Read a little more carefully.  The USCF camps are regularly advertised
in Cycling USA.  In fact, the latest issue has an article about one
woman's experience in camp.  You should probably call the USCF if you
are interested in next Spring's camps (there is an application
process, and the camps fill up quickly).

John_Ampe@att.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing