HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Subject: Sexual Compatibility (Re: arranged marriages
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 22:43:44 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.092520.8988@csd.uwe.ac.uk>, c_lakhan@csd.uwe.ac.uk (C Lakhani) writes:
> In article <1992Nov5.193904.14535@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
> >> But, unlike a date, it is not so easy to back out
> >> if this first night together doesn't work out well.
> >
> >And that is one of the major problems with arranged marriages.
> >
> Well, would you seriously consider backing out of your arranged marriage 
> because the earth didn't move for you on your first encounter?

If the first encounter problems are serious enough, it may be better
to back out than regret it rest of your life.

> I would have thought one of the nicest things about arranged marriages is 
> that you are allowed to make mistakes and still have the opportunity to 
> make amendments.  

Some things cannot just be considered mistakes and some things can not be 
amended - practically speaking.

> For all you chappies about to experience the first encounter, I would suggest you buy a good (not doctored for the westerners) copy of the 
> KS and take note of the chapter on etiquette.

Etiquette isn't the only thing in a sexual encounter. Physical compatibility,
emotional compatibility, psychological compatibility etc all play a role
in a sexual encounter. Expectations are also important. In an arranged
marriage situation, one does not know enough about the physical, emotional,
psychological aspects of the partner. This is more so in traditional
arranged marriages where only one or two meetings in a highly controlled
atmosphere are held between the two getting married. The situation is even
more complicated when there is an attempt at deception or concealment of 
certain aspects. Some of these come to haunt when an actual sexual encounter 
takes place. An arranged marriage meeting is a highly programmed process
and there is much room for deception and concealment and it invariably
happens.


Alok

Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: c150-bt@po.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij)
Subject: Re: Linear times in America
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 23:53:44 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.200724.12812@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> ngupta writes:

>It is not clear as to what you want to be and what you are.  I do not mean to make this discussion complicated and do not mean to draw any lines.  Ofcourse i made a choice and came to U.S. However this does not mean that in order to gain the confidence of few people, i start criticising my motherland and stop identifying myself as a proud citizen of that nation.  Nobody gives you the right to do that.  As per my personal opinion, most of the young friends who have been brought over here in U.S. have 
> a disapproving notion about India becuase of their parents and not because they have seen anything themselves.  Also, India does not need people who are not proud to call themselves one.  Please go to the nearest surgeon and get your skin colour changed so that you do not have to go thru the trauma of being a Indian.  I do not intend to say this to you, purna in particular but to everybody.  I would like to strees upon the point that this is my personal and individualistic opinion and do not intend 
>t anybodies feeling.  If somebody disagrees with me, he/she is welcome for a open debate.

First of all, many IA's have been back to India.  The ones I've talked with
have had mixed impressions, both positive and negative.

Second, criticism of your motherland is a sign that you care for its 
well-being.  I sound like a parent, but ... jingoistic, blind nationalism
is empty and dangerous.  One of the U.S.' strengths is its guarantee of
freedom of speech, which protects actions like Gov. Clinton's protests
against the Vietnam War.  So did the U.S. "lose face" abroad at his hands?
In my eyes, this country gained currency for being honest enough with itself
to allow criticism.	

Third, although I abhor your blind call to arms, your pride in India is
commendable.  Would that there were more national unity and less regionalism
both in India and the IA community in the U.S.

Manish

   Such wild returns I make to the womb of civilization.  Three weeks
   a year in the Peleponnese, every bed booked in advance, every meal
   paid for by vouchers, cautious jaunts in hired Fiats, suitcase
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne)
Subject: Re: arranged marriages
Reply-To: moh2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 16:53:15 GMT

Hmmm....

I've been getting a lot of comments that Indian women are a lot less
ignorant than I thought.  Good.

I suddenly realized that half the women I talked to were in fact Sri
Lankan, and from small villages.  Therein may lay the heart of the
problem.

I have to be careful about such generaliations of Sri Lankans as
Indians - it's similar, but not quite the same.

But I do believe that the problem still exists.

 - Amirthi
-- 
More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads.  One
path leads to despair and utter hopelessness.  The other to total
extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.
						 - Woody Allen
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: baindur@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Satyen G Baindur)
Subject: Re: hooligans and language
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Distribution: alt
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 06:25:38 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.173717.14883@ctp.com> pghol@ctp.com (Preeti Anissa Gholap) writes:
>In article <sgupta.720480692@mueller.ecn.purdue.edu> sgupta@mueller.ecn.purdue.edu (Sameer Gupta) writes:
>>The
>>point is that an overwhelming majority of Americans speak English
>>Sameer
>
>Its a fact that the one language spoken by the "majority" of the people 
>on Earth is Chinese -- perhaps we should all adopt it
>and move onto another discussion  :)
>
>gi jian,
>
>Preeti

I have no idea how we got onto this, but in the spirit of things, that 
won't prevent me from making this observation. There is no single language 
called 'Chinese' any more than there is a language called 'Indian'. The 
people living in the country we know as China actually speak a variety of 
languages of the Sino-Tibetan family. What is taught as 'Chinese' in 
America is actually either the dialect called Mandarin or the dialect called
Cantonese. There are many more actually spoken. 

Mandarin is the dialect that was used by officials and bureaucrats, and 
may perhaps also be thought of as 'high-Chinese'.
Interestingly, the word 'Mandarin' was used to refer to this dialect 
first by the Portuguese, who got it from the Malay, who got it from 
the Sanskrit word 'mantri' which means 'minister' or 'high-ranking official'. 
So where does that leave us ? I wonder. 

Satyen
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: mba2@Jane.UH.EDU (Puneet_S)
Subject: Your Duty as an IA/American
Reply-To: mba2@Jane.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:53:12 GMT

Not meant for anything except curiosity?

How many of you IA's /II's /whatever (but obviously as you will soon
see - citizens) voted in this election?  You don't however have to
be a citizen to think about the following things or to respond.

This was my first one ever.  I only became a citizen this last year
and actually followed the race.  Felt a little apathy cause I was 
certain my "presidential candidate" wouldn't make it, but I ended
voting anyways.  I'm curious, do you want to vote /not want to vote
because you have /have not had the opportunity and have/have not
accepted where you are as home forever, etc... 

Insert Opinions here.  I've seen the posts recently on racism, marraige,
IA's vs. II's, dating (inside outside indian culture) but none of
you mentioned anything about the most recent major event.  What do you use
as the instrument of change of your/our society?  Can we /should we 
indians unite to have our voice heard by the government?  Do you support
minority interests?  Should the government pander to minorities? Etc...

VCD, Puneet (D-Poon) 
 
It's a 106 miles to Chicago
We have a full tank of gas
Half a pack of Cigarettes
It's dark
And we have our shades on.       
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: raghavan@wk28.nas.nasa.gov (Venkatraman Raghavan)
Subject: Individualism
Organization: -
   c150-bt@po.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij) writes:
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 22:49:01 GMT

   > I am not arguing for absolute individualism.
Is it the same as lifestyle with no emotional attachments 
whatsoever?

   >(BTW: an interesting subject -- is extreme individualism more present
   >in India or the U.S., and therefore which is a better place to live?)
   			     ^^^^^^^^^^^
Is there a direct relationship between individualism and happiness?

Raghavan

PS: I used to think Manish was the most unusual person I have come 
across until I read about The Nudist in today's Mercury News 
(local San Jose, CA paper). Simple story. He goes to school at Cal,
(UC Berkeley). Doesn't wear _any_ clothes; at home, on the way 
to school, in the classrooms and at the police station when he 
gets cited. All this without anyone paying any attention to him.
and I thought Clinton win was the non-event of the week!
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: saeed@watson.ibm.com (Saeed Jaffer)
Subject: Re: Problems faced by Indian immigrants not common to Chinese or
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 19:49:26 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Alex Miller (amiller@almaden.ibm.com) asks:

|> Are Asian Indians persecuted because, to some idiots, they look like
|> Iraqis??? 

I couldn't help followup to this.  This question reminds me of a joke that
some of my friends say at times.  This doesn't answer your question, Alex,
but I had to post this.

Whenever a large LARGE group (i.e. 15 - 20) of my Pakistani/Indian friends
walk into a public place like a restaurant, most people tend to look up and
stare at us a bit.  Undoubtedly, someone there must be thinking, "Wow.  That's
a buttload of foreigners/Arabs/what-have-you's!"

Then someone in our group will usually say this loudly:

``I bet everyone here is thinking, `Damn.  I thought we WON the Gulf War.''

Then we all explode laughing.  Everybody else in the place looks at us even
more strangely.

I think the reason my friends and I enjoy this so much is because we feel a
sense of community and solidarity in the joke.  And because the joke ridicules
the ``ignorant Amrikan idiot'' who can't tell the difference between a South
Asian (desi), an Arab, or a Persian.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--saeed jaffer        			So after a lot of thought
saeed@watson.ibm.com  			I'd like to reconsider
saeed@athena.mit.edu  			Please
					If it's not too late
					Make it a cheeseburger
							--L. Lovett
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Subject: Re: Arranged Marriages and Wedding Nights...
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:07:05 GMT

> In <1992Nov7.001255.13636@athena.mit.edu> Preet (pghol@ctp.com) as
> nergis@athena.mit.edu (Nergis Mavalvala) writes:  
> 
> >Alok (unwittingly, no doubt) brought up an important point
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >that Indian women are "conditioned to expect sex"....just as

Preeti,
         Why was it unwittingly to bring this point ?

Alok
From: sg@monsoon.com (Sunil Gupta)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Problems faced by Indian immigrants not common to Chinese or
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 09:14:51 EST
Organization: Monsoon Software, Inc.

amiller@almaden.ibm.com (Alex Miller) writes:

> loses power, the new Japan-bashing re-affirms that "YOU BETTER
> CARE IF YOU LOOK LIKE THE ENEMY OF AMERICA."  Are Asian Indians
> persecuted because, to some idiots, they look like Iraqis???

Well, I was in high school during the Iranian hostage episode, and
I was harassed on a daily basis. There were a number of IA's in
New York and New Jersey who were severely beaten when they were
mistaken for Iranian (I believe a few were killed in NJ).

Sunil Gupta
Monsoon Software, Inc.
sg@monsoon.com
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: mps1@cec1.wustl.edu (Mihir Pramod Shah)
Subject: Re: Your Duty as an IA/American
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 03:47:25 GMT

Devendra and Puneet,
      Good postings.  We as Indian-Americans or whatever have to get
along with mainstream American society.  We don't have to conform
or assimilate completely, simply get involved and interact.

     I have been recently reading about Idi Amin's expulsion of Indians
from Uganda.  Although it was a great tragedy brought out by an animal 
of a dictator, I have learned that the resentment towards Indians was 
built up over a long period of time.  The Indians were economically and
socially self-contained.  While many had good relations with black
Ugandans, many simply used them as servants, etc.

     We in America must not be satisfied with material gain and financial
stability.  While I do not condon rioting or violence, the way some blacks
attacked the Koreans in Los Angeles is very explainable.  Asian immigrants
still have a tendency to be quietly isolated and self contained.  One
Korean businessman in New York I saw on TV was on the right track:  reaching
out to the community, especially the blacks in his area that made up most
of the population in the neighborhood.  The reason why Ice Cube wrote
his song "Black Korea" was that too many Asian business owners and operator
have been particularly resentful and downright suspicious of the outside 
community.
    
     As Rodney King said "Can we all get along?"  How true those words
ring.  I get very upset when Indians overly criticize other American
cultures.  Gujaratis on the net will recognize the condescending phrases
of"

"salow dhoria....salow kalloo.....salow mecla.....salow buchia"

How can we exist in society peacefully if we as Indians don't respect the
rest of society.  We Indians are not morally or intellectually superior
simply because we may have higher average salaries or more offspring
becoming doctors and engineers.

Learn to appreciate you American environment.  If we simply sit around
surrounded by finanical happiness in our homes, we are doomed as a  
community.  David Duke, Pat Buchanan, Ice Cube, and others exist not only
because of racists, but also because some of us in the community don't 
happily and eagerly interact with the rest of society in America.

Peace....Mihir
From: samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: more on marriage
Date: 10 Nov 92 19:03:29 GMT
Reply-To: samaddar@siemens.com
Distribution: alt.culture.us.asian-indian

bhattach@molly.jpl.nasa.gov (Bidushi Bhattacharya) writes:

>I've seen, though, most people make fidelity a basic part of their 
>intimate relationship, whether they are married or not.

I think there is some possessiveness involved. It happens even in
platonic friendships. You don't want your "best" friend to be the
"best" friend of someone else as well. In intimate relationships,
people want to be the "significant other" of their partner. Anytime
infidelity occurs, there is a lurking danger that you may eventually
become less than "significant other" while the other person becomes
significant. This possessiveness is partly evolutionary in origin
and thus inherent in most people.

Sumitro
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav)
Subject: Re: Individualism
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 23:34:04 GMT

===========================
 raghavan@wk28.nas.nasa.gov (Venkatraman Raghavan) querries:
>   > c150-bt@po.berkeley.edu (Manish) writes:
>   > I am not arguing for absolute individualism.
>Is it the same as lifestyle with no emotional attachments 
>whatsoever?

 No, IMO.

 I don't know what Manish had in mind when he wrote "absolute
 individualism"; but individualism, to me, doesn't mean a 
 lifestyle with no emotional attachments whatsoever.

 However, that does not mean emotions are what drive attachments.
 The attachments are based on facts and realities of the other
 individual's values, character and personality. Emotions do
 not sustain the relationship/attachment; emotions add to the
 substance. Emotions are not the cause of attachment, emotions 
 are the result. 

 To go further, emotions are not without causes. Emotions are 
 responses to an individual's essential self. Emotions are
 creations of one's own fundamental beliefs and needs; and 
 have no existence outside of one's own mind. Therefore, emotions
 can be controlled and evolved - it just needs time and effort.
 From this viewpoint, one can say that, there are emotions and
 there are attachements, but there are no "lasting" purely emotional 
 attachments. To that, I subscribe. 

 In summary, emotions are wonderful and essential part of an 
 individual's life. Recognising that, understanding that and 
 accepting that about oneself is the beginning. But then, that 
 is just the beginning of - whatever you may call - individualism.

>
>   >(BTW: an interesting subject -- is extreme individualism more present
>   >in India or the U.S., and therefore which is a better place to live?)
>   			     ^^^^^^^^^^^
>Is there a direct relationship between individualism and happiness?

 Each human is unique. What works for one, may not work for another.
 So, there is no way, I could give a universal answer to that. I don't
 have all the facts.

 With whatever facts I know, I think both these concepts go together. 
 To focus on oneself, to take care of oneself first, to not expect the
 rest of the world to live for you, to not do what you hate doing, to
 not expect yourself to be solely responsible for someone's happiness,
 to know and live by the conviction that
 
   "I, and I alone, am the only one responsible for my own happiness" 

 is what all this finally means and works (for me atleast).

T.Y.
----
tyadav@athena.mit.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne)
Subject: Re: Linear times in Amrika
Reply-To: moh2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:58:06 GMT

[Manish talked about a lot of interesting things, among them, how
alone one can feel in America, and how surrounded, whether it's a
comfort or a barricade, one feels in India.  It reminded me of
something I wrote a while ago....feel free to send me comments or
critique, but any poetic follow-ups should be sent to rec.arts.poetry,
where I usually publish these.]

*****

	Marching Alone

Marching to the beat of a distant drummer.
So wonderfully romantic a phrase...
Such images of one man against the world...
Harder than it sounds.

Because the over-riding pulsebeat of life,
Will always be that of those around you...
And if they march in automated step, singing war songs as they go,
Barricading you within their ranks with the force of their
convictions,
It's difficult to break free.

For the sound of that distant drum, while loud, 
Is also strangely far...
It's so much easier to let that heartbeat die out,
Into the measured order of those around you.

So if you do follow the distant drummer,
It will be because you have no choice...
Your feet cannot match the ordered step,
You can't shut off the pounding, profoundly disturbing,
Terrifyingly other, pulse in your skull.

Until you forsake friends and family
To march, walk, dance alone.
Or to join in a new company, stepping together.
But you are still forever set apart.

For you will always hear, somewhere beyond sound,
Almost silent sussuration, whispering in infinte patience,
And unrelenting torture...

The drumbeat of the old.

*****

M.A. Mohanraj
September 30, 1992

-- 
More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads.  One
path leads to despair and utter hopelessness.  The other to total
extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.
						 - Woody Allen
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: ngupta@nyx.cs.du.edu(ngupta)
Subject: Re: Linear times in America
Reply-To: ngupta
Organization: nasa-jsc
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:07:24 GMT

In article 3617@menudo.uh.edu, mece1xg@menudo.uh.edu (purna) writes:

>could you elaborate on this point?

Just like one owes much more to his/her parents, people who are responsible for his/her existence, personality, religion, name, language as compared to the Host family who is giving you a opportunity to live over here.  This is merely a comparison which, inorder to be understood, needs a thought.

 
>all very true about america.  however, which of these points do and/or
>don't exist in india?  and, to what extreme?

I agree that all these problems do exist. Howeverthere are some good and bad points assiciated with every nook and corner of this earth.  But then why do our brothern tend to hide behind this excuse, when somebody advocates the idea of returning back to your motherland.

  
>well, i don't usually get this question that often.  maybe it's because
>i'm so loud and boisterous, people hear me from far away and figure
>out i'm more american than indian :)  however, i don't think i've
>encountered many indians who're not PROUD of being so.  as for myself,
>when confronted with the question "where are you from?", my response
>is "Earth; 4th planet circulating the star we call Sol in the galaxy we
>call the Milky Way" :) :)

Please do not misunderstand me.  I am talking about soam or purna or ngupta.  There might be some special cases like you, but what i am talking about is the majority.  
 
>i agree to an extent.  however, if i travel, i carry the american
>expre....i mean, passport :)  so, am i still "indian".  i guess i am;
>at least partly so.  however, at what point does someone stop being
>"indian" and become "american"?  or stop being "irish" and become
>"american"?  or stop being "indian" and become "irish"? :)

It is not clear as to what you want to be and what you are.  I do not mean to make this discussion complicated and do not mean to draw any lines.  Ofcourse i made a choice and came to U.S. However this does not mean that in order to gain the confidence of few people, i start criticising my motherland and stop identifying myself as a proud citizen of that nation.  Nobody gives you the right to do that.  As per my personal opinion, most of the young friends who have been brought over here in U.S. have formed


 a disapproving notion about India becuase of their parents and not because they have seen anything themselves.  Also, India does not need people who are not proud to call themselves one.  Please go to the nearest surgeon and get your skin colour changed so that you do not have to go thru the trauma of being a Indian.  I do not intend to say this to you, purna in particular but to everybody.  I would like to strees upon the point that this is my personal and individualistic opinion and do not intend to hur


t anybodies feeling.  If somebody disagrees with me, he/she is welcome for a open debate.
From: c150-bt@po.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij)
Subject: Re: Heritage and Culture..
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 23:40:02 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.151642.21965@menudo.uh.edu> mba2@Jane.UH.EDU writes:
>I believe Raghvan posted recently on a meeting with an Indian gentlemen
>from India on life, closeness, etc...  Please refer to that.

Dammit, Jim, I'm Manish, not Raghavan.

>Dammit Jim, i'm just an engineer not an english major.....

Do you have to be one or the other?
Do you have to be "in" with the Indian crowd, or out with them?
Does being unable to label, drive people nuts?	

Manish
(engineer and English minor)

   Such wild returns I make to the womb of civilization.  Three weeks
   a year in the Peleponnese, every bed booked in advance, every meal
   paid for by vouchers, cautious jaunts in hired Fiats, suitcase
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian