HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: samlb@optilink.UUCP (Sam Bassett)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Baronies
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:44:06 GMT
Organization: Old, used Steward

In article <9210142108.AA19749@inmet.camb.inmet.com> justin@inmet.camb.inmet.COM (Justin du Coeur MKA Mark Waks) writes:
>Re: Ancient Baronies
>
	In my days a Steward, the _working_ definition of a Barony was
just about what it is today -- a full set of officers, the Baron/ess as
the ceremonial representative of the Throne, etc.  I suspect that later
Corpora is a codification of existing practice, rather than a recipe for
how it worked.
	I vaguely remember the second ("voluntary association") type of
Barony from Corpora, but I don't remember that there ever were any --
certainly not in the West.  There were a certain number of Court Barons
who had more-or-less extensive households . . .
	I think I would have argued against the concept as being a sneaky
way to legitimitize households, which were  otherwise forbidden/ignored.
I certainly don't remember it as being an active issue -- which is to say
there was no controversy or screaming about it, as there was in the case
of some of the other kind of Baronies (anybody seen Pwyll pen Tyrhon
lately??? :-)

-- 
Sam'l Bassett -- System Administrator 	      (among other silly things)
Work: DSC/Optilink, 1310-C Redwood Wy, Petaluma CA 94954; 1-707-792-7253
Internet: samlb@optilink.com 		      UUCP: uunet!optilink!samlb
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: What is a Baron (territorial)
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:35:50 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.224935.19573@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au> mdewis@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au ( Mark Richard Dewis) writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.223420.16706@pbhya.PacBell.COM>, whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
>> [...Summary of Western Barony Distribution...]
>>
>>	Lochac (Austrailia):			5
>
>The data is still correct, but you misspelled Australia (one i).

I sit corrected.

>(Normally I wouldn't nit pick about spelling, but it _is_ fairly
>important to get continents correct, there not being that many
>to remember :)  In any case, if you make a habit of misspelling
>Australia, one day you might end up in Vienna by accident when you
>meant to go to Sydney ... mind you, that could be seen as a bonus ;)

Hmmm...  The thought of 'alles mit schlag' is rather appealing....

Still, if I intended to go to Australia--that's where I'd hope to wind
up.

If I intended to go to Europe, I'd more likely be aiming for Denmark.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: brandon@gauss.math.brown.edu (Joshua Brandon)
Subject: Re: Stereotypes; Legends; Bureaucracy; History; Dance
Organization: Brown University Math Department
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:54:31 GMT

From the Corpora chunks and descriptions Justin posted (thanks, Justin!) it
sounds rather like the first type of barony (sufficiently far from the
capital, holds its own tournaments, chooses a queen of Love and Beauty) came
from at least the same isort of dea as the modern Principalities, where as the
Charter Baronies are (as Justin said) more like modern Baronies....


			---Simon
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: u883161@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Alex Tewes)
Subject: re: Seneschals' Courts
Organization: University of Tasmania
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 04:19:26 GMT

As a member and past Seneschal of a Shire, isolated from the greater
principality by an expensive stretch of ocean, I can attest to the 
frustrations of having people meriting awards yet unable to be 
recognized because of the absence of local Royalty. 

The P&P average about one visit per year, so that gives us something but not
enough. 

We have had the situation where a Gentle travelled from the Barony of Anneala 
(that is 2000 miles away) specifically to help us cook for our First Principality
Event. Without our own Awards, how do we say thank You?  Our solution was to
make him a Freeman of the Shire.  This is not an Award and carries no SCA
weight, but by so naming him we acknowledged that if he ever calls for help
 we'll be there for him.  (We also gave him a nice scroll).

We are now moving toward Baronial status and hope to get there next year. 

Martin de Mont Blanc ( mka Alex Tewes)

Shire of Ynys Fawr / Lochac / West      ( that's Tasmania, Australia)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: elf ears r us
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1992 10:14:16 -0500

    I need to post something so Hossein can find my address. I guess I'll tell
you a brief story.
    
    I was at an event a couple of months ago where I had to deal with a rabid
trekkie. We will call this gentle "Morgan" though that is not his correct name
nor am I necessarily giving his true gender.

    Anyway, Morgan came up to me and confided that he wasn't really from around
here. He told me he was a field anthropologist with the United Federation of
Planets and he was doing a study of us. Grumble.... I don't really care if
people play different games at SCA events; I just hate it when they impact
negatively on MY game. 

    I put as much controlled, precise, military anger into my face and voice as
I could. I said "Then obey the goddam Prime Directive! If I hear of you breaking
cover again, for any reason, I'll have your ass out of Starfleet so fast they'll
have to send the rest of you by shuttle." 

    I then dropped back into genial, relatively polite, Henry Best, as if
nothing had happened at all. Morgan stared at me for a moment and then wandered
off. 

    My only fear is that he will come back wanting to use me as an "emergency
contact" or some such nonsense.....

                                 Henry Best, Isenfir, Atlantia

From: Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ruth Woodring)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Stolen armor (was Re: Twcs' helm)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:29:42

 LDH> Where does it go?
 LDH> Recently Baroness Domenica had her coronet stolen from
 LDH> the back of her truck along with some truly beautiful and
 LDH> sentimental garb of two Peers that were traveling with her.
 LDH> So where does one fence or use a braided, gold-wire cronet?
 
 My friends Baron Robin and Baorness Adelicia had their Suburban stolen while  visiting her mother in Houston.  His Heavy Armor and his Rapier Combat armor,  and all associated weaponry were in the van.  It was two weeks before Queen's  Champion tourney, the major rapier tournament in Ansteorra.  By the date of  the tourney, he had been loaned or given eoungh armor and weapons to fight in  it by his friends, and made it to the semi-finals.  Later, three of us sewed  new rapier armor for him.

 ..we're still hoping that the theives hurt themselves playing with the  weapons....

 About two years ago we had a break-in -- they took the fancy VCR, my good  tape recorder, and the purple and gold trim that I was working on -- one yard  had taken about a year's worth of work.  Somehow, that hurt worse than  anything else.  I still haven't begun on a new piece to replace it.

 Heaven knows what the theives do with armor when they steal it.  I do know  that someone once found a set of armor at a yard sale and recovered it for  the fellow who'd had it disappear at an event some onths before.

 Twcs -- sorry to hear about your losses.  I very much sympathise.

 -- Vashti


 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Computer prices...
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 13:40:14

 BN> $5000 add on that was talked about.  Basically, computer power that
 BN> was incredibly expensive in days of yore is now incredibly cheap.
  I know this is off-topic, but this is totally true.  I recently 
 purchased a computer *and* printer for less than I paid for my first 
 non-programmable scientific calculator.  True, said computer/prntr 
 are used and antiquated, but the comparision still amazes me.
     Gwenllian CfM, showing my age

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Re: Term Limits for the Landed Baroncy
Organization: University of Tennessee 
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:04:13 GMT

In article <3584@creatures.cs.vt.edu> jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter) writes:

Her Excellency, Goedlyn of Windemere has been Baroness of Thor's Mtn for over
ten years, with no complaints that _I_ have heard.  The prior coronet was 
"removed."  When I raise the subject casually, all I hear are humorous 
comments about "armed rebellion."  I'll look into the issue.
-=-=-
T. Archer  PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu
University of Tennessee
"Vote Dempublican, it's easier than thinking." -- Unknown
-=-=-
From: Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ruth Woodring)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Meridies Crown List
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 18:46:50

  BSW> Greetings from Sir Brian
  BSW>  It seems that this past weekend I won the Crown of 
  BSW> Meridies in what I think  as the toughest list in the past   several years.
  BSW> I crowned my lady wife Mistress Aeruin ni hErain  
  BSW> Crown Princes of Meridies that evening. A proud moment for me.

  Sir Brian, your Highness, thank you for blowing your own horn.  T's rare  indeed that we get a blow-by-blow account of the finals of any tournament,  and especially Crown Tournaments of the bbs!  That we should get it from one  of the contestants is exceptional.  Congratulations and thanks for sharing  the account with us!  Your Champion, Lord Boru, sounds a doughty foe and a  true friend!

 I don't know your HIghness at all, but when I read the name of your Princess  I had to let out a yell of pure joy!  Please give Mistress Aeruin my  greetings and good wishes -- she's one of my favorite people, and I wish we  saw her more often!  Hmmn -- good reason to travel into Meridies.  When did  you say your Coronation will be?

 May your Highnesses ever be well! 

 --- Vashti of the Flaming Tresses
 

  

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)
Subject: Re: Twcs's helm
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 18:28:50 GMT

In article <0bMD02kt25jB01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> branwen@cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams) writes:
>Twcs (Catie Helm) writes:
>
>>I wish I could post with good heart tonight, but I cannot.  I discovered
>>that the camper back on my truck was broken into on Saturday morning,
>>and one of the things that was stolen was that new helmet I was so proud
>>of.  That makes this the third helmet to be stolen from me in my SCA
>>career.

First, condolences. 

Second,  there is hope. About a three years agon one of our fighters had
his armor ripped off, just like you did. The cops got the guy that did
it about 4-6 months later. The fighters armor was still in the back of
the thief's car. Just goes to show the candlepower of the average thief.
You might get lucky.

Third, a question. If you were to steal a piece of SCA armor where would
you fence it? You really couldn't sell it to other SCA members (at least
in kingdom), because it would be fairly identifiable as somebody else's
equipment ("Hey, isn't that Sir Swaetsoch's helm?"). I don't know of any
other place where you could sell SCA grade armor (most of it looks like
a car after an accident and smells like a gym locker :))? And scrap
yards probably wouldn't pay you more than a couple of dollars for the
whole suit. (Sorry, if I made anyone's gut tighten up at the thought
:().
	Any thief that would keep the armor probably has a really
impaired sense of decor (given that most SCA armor is really ratty
looking) and is really stupid in not getting rid of the hot property as
quickly as possible. (Of course I have noted that the average thief
doesn't have a really great speed of processing). 
	So where does it go?
From: Jeff Lee <jlee@smylex.UUCP>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Officers' titles (was Re: Re:One Oh)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 14:47:47 EDT
Organization: Shipbrook Software  (Tampa, FL)

Greetings from Godfrey!

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin writes:
> 
> In the West a Chatelaine meets newcomers with explanations and useful
> handouts.  What does an Eastern one do?

In Trimaris, those are part of the duties of a Hospitaller.

Just throwing in my $0.01 worth...

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Net:  Jeff Lee / jlee@smylex.uucp / jlee%smylex.uucp@tscs.tscs.com     |
| SCA:  Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook / Wyvernwood, Trimaris                 |
|       Per pale azure and argent, a clarion counterchanged or and gules |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
      "Of course!  Lager!  The only thing that can kill a vindaloo!"
From: helm@jade.ucdavis.edu (Catie Helm)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: ... "Autocrat" ...
Date: 8 Oct 92 05:31:25 GMT
Reply-To: helm@jade.ucdavis.edu
Organization: Geology Department, University of California, Davis


>Both the lists field and the markers that set it off are still called
>"the Eric" in the West.  The field is now about five by fifteen large
>pavilions in size (we run five, or is it six now? combats simultaneously
>on it, in the early stages of the Crown Lists), set off by three-foot-
>high stakes with little green-and-yellow dags hanging from the cords
>that run between them.  They were made by Mistress Jania of Call Duck
>Manor and her lord Derek of Dragonsclaw, and they are getting to be
>inadequate to mark all the Eric off.  (Maybe this winter a group can
>get together to make some more.  No, sorry, I am not volunteering.)

I thought that the current eric was made by Rot Mahne, or at least
that's what the stealth duchess told me back in August when we borrowed
it for our "not-purgatorio" event in Berkeley.  Now I'm confused...

>Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                   

Confused (formerly Twcs, before the 18 undergrads in her mineralogy class
she's teaching got a hold of her today...  ;-)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Catie Helm, internet: helm@geology.ucdavis
Stable Isotope Lab, Geology Dept.
University of California, Davis
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Citrons (was Re: Linen and wool)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 20:26:10

 ]E> Forgive my ignorance: "Citron" is the Swedish word for "lemon".

 ]E> What is the difference between a citron and a lemon in English?
A lemon is a medium sized bright yellow tart citrus fruit.  A citron is 
 a larger, thicker-skinned citrus fruit that tends to be more greenish. 
 Lemons are pretty common, *I* have to look for ethnic-food stores to 
 find a citron.   I don't know about the relative edibility of a citron. 
     Gwenllian Cwmystwyth, Steppes, Ansteorra (Dallas, Texas)

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: rday@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Robert E Day)
Subject: Re: Multi-Multi-Dukes (was Re: Dancing from Pictures; Waivers)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:11:22 GMT

In article <1544@niktow.canisius.edu> salley@niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley)
 writes:
>
>I'm curious, who's current record holder for most times on the throne?
>Is Paul of Bellatrix still in the lead?  I'd be interested in a list for
>each kingdom of who's been on more than ... oh say... three times and
>how many times they've each been on.  Principalities are welcome to play
>too.  I'll try to get the definitive list for the East over this weekend.
>
>                                                       - Dagonell

The Middle record holders are Andrew, Alen and Talymar all who have won 3
reigns.

_
-- 
If the price that I must pay to obtain my *  Robert E. Day/Syr Otto von    *
freedom, is to acknowledge that the Gov-  *  Schwartzkatz, Shire Mugmort   *
ernmet was granted the power to infringe  *  Barony Middle Marches,        *
on them, then I am not free. Paul Anderson*  Middle Kingdom                *
From: stp@controls.ccd.harris.com (Stephen T. Pierce)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pickup Trucks (was Re: regalia trailer)
Keywords: Pickups, Trimaris
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:58:27 GMT
Reply-To: steve@rtfm.mlb.fl.us
Organization: Space Coast Naturists
Originator: stp@rs2


In article <1558@niktow.canisius.edu>, salley@niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley) writes:
|> 
|> I've noticed that here in the East. At a demo at a school, I made the comment 
|> that you could tell which vehicles in the parking lot belonged to fighters, 
|> all the pickups and vans.  Lord Madog, who was in Atlantia while in the Army, 
|> said that in Atlantia, you could skip the phrase 'and vans'.  If you don't 
|> have a pickup, you ain't a _real_ fighter.  How is it in the other 10 kingdoms?

   Well, vans are definitely in here in Trimaris, though trucks are used quite
a bit, too (I just traded a mini-van for a truck myself :-).

Yours in service,
  Stephen Greyhawkes
-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Steve Pierce				INTERNET: stp@rs2.ccd.harris.com
WORK PHONE: (407) 242-4122			  steve@rtfm.mlb.fl.us
	Ask me about Space Coast Naturists!
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Hurricane Iniki news from Kauai
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:45:31 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.174120.6015@pbhya.PacBell.COM> whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
>The word on conditions among SCA folk on Kauai has finally tricked
(Grumble...)                   Make that:                   trickled
>out...

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Decentralization and Minors
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:28:35 GMT
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM

Greetings from Arval!

I think Cariadoc's analysis of the growth of concern about liaibility in
the SCA is dead-on.  However, I think a slightly different focus may also
be helpful in understanding the problem.  Cariadoc wrote:

> Suppose your teenage son invites some friends over to play football
> in the back yard. Do you get waivers and parental permission forms? I
> doubt it. Suppose a regular group of gamers gathers in your living
> room--do you first check to make sure that any minors have their
> parents' permission to attend? Probably not.

Indeed, but I have liability insurance which will protect me if one of
those children gets hurt; it's built into rental and homeowner's insurance.
The problem is that when the host is the SCA, Inc., it needs the same sort
of insurance, but the insurance companies require a great deal more
documentation before they will agree to provide the greater coverage that a
larger organization needs.  As Cariadoc observed, this is a direct
consequence of the existance of an organization, but I'm not sure it makes
any difference how big the organization is: In order to play high school
soccer, I needed a medical waiver and parental permission.  The SCA's
documentation requirements for minor participation are essentially the
same.

Some paperwork and rigidity are natural consequences of the existance of
the corporation.  Too much paperwork and rigidity are the dangers, but some
paperwork is necessary if the corporation is to accomplish what we want,
and rigidity is the flip-side of unity.  If we want the corporation to
maintain some degree of uniformity across the Society, then we have to put
up with some restrictions.  Like Justin, I think we could manage with a
great deal less of both, but I don't think the time has come to abandon the
corporation.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ruth Woodring)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: bats and swastikas
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1992 19:30:58

 HT> BTW, this quarter's Rotunda, the magazine of the Royal Ontario Museum,
 HT> has an article on bats, and a picture of an imperial robe with bats and
 HT> swastikas as symbols for good luck.

 ...I know some folks that would love this -- I won't tell them if you won't!  (grin)

 BTW -- e-mail me your and Enid's new phone number -- tried to call and your  new one is unlisted. 

 Hugs,

 -- Vashti of the Flaming Tresses



 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Dancing; post-period sources...
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 18:42:04

 DZ> That a class of dance is mentioned in period isn't 
 DZ> useful.  Imagine someone
 DZ> trying to justify an item of garb on the grounds 
 DZ> that "dresses are mentioned
 DZ> in period and this is as dress."  (To take an 
 That's a good point.  After all, the changes in English Country 
 between our first source ca. 1651 and Hole in the Wall are striking. 
 OTOH, for dresses we don't get to add the line "and this is the 
 earliest picture of a dress we've got".
...
 DZ> we might not realize that those jigs were in 4/4 
 DZ> time, and not in 6/8 time.)
 Quite true.  I, for instance, was unaware of this.  BTW, I'd love to 
 get a book title for this.  I read everything the Dallas Public Library 
 had to offer -- such as it was.  No great historical stuff there.  This 
 would be a nice source to peruse (or is it based on extant music?)
...
 DZ> It doesn't feel early enough to me either (though this judgment may be
 DZ> biased because I know too much about its provenance).  So what does
 Just out of curiousity, do you know of any earlier reels we might pick 
 up?  Or are you saying that you know it to be composed at a later date?
 I know that the instructions are pretty late.  One of it's biggest 
 saving graces for me was that it isn't danced in varsouvienne position. 
.....
 DZ> out dancers who believe that "Strip the Willow", "Hole in the Wall",
 DZ> and "Black Nag" typify "period dancing".  Why should they doubt that
 DZ> Korobushka has an authentic feel?
 Hmmmm.  I realize that Black Nag isn't in the first Playford, but it's 
 still following the up-a-double + chorus + siding + chorus + arming + 
 chorus style of earlier EC dances.  Of course, one could blame this 
 misbelief on we Dance Instructors ourselves.  When was the last time 
 you learned a dance and got the appropriate history lesson with it? I 
 always try, but I only get a chance at a Collegium.  We seem to have too  many folks who just wanna dance and not be bothered by history at the 
 Steppes dance practice.  Granted, there are a few who care, but one 
 has to shout down the babble first, it seems.

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ruth Woodring)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet