From: yu@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Fan Yu)
Subject: Re: IFCSS's congratulation letter to BC
Organization: Dept. of Physics & Astronomy, McMaster University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 02:47:11 GMT

In article <7NOV199218190354@rosie.uh.edu> math1pf@rosie.uh.edu (Zheng, Ping) writes:
>In article <1992Nov7.153611.18028@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca>, yu@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Fan Yu) writes...
>>In article <6NOV199222022897@rosie.uh.edu> math1pf@rosie.uh.edu (Zheng, Ping) writes:
>>>> 
>>>>Bush congratulated Clinton personally. He did not say "on behalf of the
>>>>American people I congratulate your victory". It's fine for IFCSS to suck
>>>>up to Clinton as a private organization(I am sure a lot of others do as well)
>>>>But it's another question for it to say or do something on behalf of others
>>>>when proper authorization does not seem to exist.
>>>> 
>>>>Fan
>>>> 
>>>Bush's congratulation is of curse of his own,they were competing with each
>>>other,weren't they ? While IFCSS's has to be from a group of people simply
>>>because of her name. As far as authorization is concerned,they might not 
>>>get your permission,but they are there representing us,and it is common
>>>sense for such organization to do things like sending congratulation letter
>>>to a new elected president.So they just did the thing they had to.Now you
>>>are questioning about their claim of being on behalf of 50,000 over seas CSS,
>>>then you tell me how they should write the letter.Wouldn't it be funny for
>>>them to say:"Congratulation Mr. Bill Clinton,we the committe members of IFCSS
>>>Geng Xiao,Zhao Haiqing,...hope you..."? On the other hand,it is Li3 Mao4
>>>to do so,haven't you seen so many congratulation letters being sent from 
>>>goverments all over the world? I bet Chinese goverment might have or will
>>>send their cogratulation too,which again may not on your behalf,not even
>>>on their own either.
>>>I think it is rediculous to ask a group's representitive to satisfy everyone
>>>of her member's taste.
>>>Do dozens of thousands Chinese students and scholars deserve to have an 
>>>organization to be on their behalf?  Do they always have be Yi1 Pan2 San3
>>>Sha1 ? Do they HAVE TO fight with each other to exaust themselves?
>>>If you do not like IFCSS or its policy,do you have better idea,or would you
>>>stand up and let people follow you?
>>>
>> 
>>OK, so let's just live with this human right abuse. Remember the guy who
>>cried on the net about his finger record being distributed without consent
>>by another guy? Believe it or not, it's not *just* me who is sick of someone
>>else claiming to act on his behalf.
>> 
>>Should we submit ourselves blindly to an organization just because it claims
>>to represent us? What do you think that caused China to be where it is today?
>>Are you for some kind of totalitarian rule? Don't we deserve to have some
>>dissidents on this issue as well? It *is* impossible for IFCSS to satisfy
>>everyone of its member's needs. That is exactly where the momentum of
>>"change" comes from. Now what would it be if all of us were the so called
>>"ruber stamps"?
>> 
>>Don't attach yourself to any political organization. That way you are bound
>>to be disappointed. The last word, is for all of us: Don't expect too much
>>from Clinton. When he runs the economy into a deeper slum, the Republicans
>>will take over for another 12 years.
>> 
>>Fan
>> 
>I think the word "abuse" is too big here.According to this logic,we are all
>being "abused" in some ways.For instance,in this post you said "The last
>word,is for all of us:...",can I say you were abusing my human right because
>I don't think it is for me?
>No one has forced to submit yourself to IFCSS,I didn't either. What I meant
>was IFCSS,as an organization,which in its name represent whole CSS in the 
>U.S.,did the right thing by sending cogratulation letter to the new elected
>president.It is simply a political courtesy,which is in some sense,the same 
>as govermental congratulations from goverments all over the world,including
>U.S.'s hostile countries. They can not be on behalf of all the people they 
>represent,but they surely don't have to get "ruber stamp" from each one of 
>its group either.
>As for how much we should expect from Clinton,it is another topic.May be 
>you don't like him,but still you wouldn't mind saying hallo to this new
>president,would you? So, for this matter,I really don't see why you say
>IFCSS has "abused" you,and please don't "abuse" others by claiming that 
>you are not alone.
>Perhaps IFCSS is not your cup of tea,so you want a change. Good idea.Then
>stop sitting there and saying you are a dissident,please do something.
>Where is your BETTER idea ??? 
>

Come on, can't you see my word was merely an advice? I certainly did not 
impose it upon others, did I? It's up to you to heed my advice or not. About 
congratulating Bill Clinton, I agree with you that he deserves it from
everyone, his opponents or not, just because he fought this long campaign
till the end. The original post about IFCSS, was however whether it was
proper for one to act on behalf of others without consent. I believe it was
*improper*. The reason is simple, we do not have an agreement that explicitly
states or implies that IFCSS can act on my behalf.

A simpler, similar instance not involving politics(IFCSS is a political 
organization), is if you join a book club and signs an agreement of whatever
a book-club agreement might be. Then you start receiving all kinds of junk
mail because this book-club distributed your address to other places,
and it claims that it was for the benefit of you---the dear member.
Now, if it was me, I would read over the agreement and if nowhere is
such an authorization stated, I would in theory have a case here. This is
a human right abuse.

Now, if such an authorization *is* stated in invisiblely small characters,
you can do nothing about it. I don't know if there is any such invisible
agreement when you join a local CSA. Maybe there is. And that might be the
reason why IFCSS can say something like that. 

Again, I am not against IFCSS on every issue. If I wrote that note for IFCSS,
I would write something like "I, the chairman of IFCSS, representing the
International(?) Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars, extend to you,
Mr. Clinton, my congratulation on your recent victory in the US presidential
election...." You see! There's gotta be someone at IFCSS who will watch
what they say before it comes out!

Fan