HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jwest@BBN.COM (Jayne K. West)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Flutter Kicking?
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:25:03 GMT
Reply-To: jwest@BBN.COM (Jayne K. West)
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

I've just begun to swim seriously at age 43.  I have swum all my life,
but I never learned to swim formally and never did any strokes besides
the freestyle.  I've joined the master's program at a local swim club.
The first thing my coaches pointed out was that I drug my legs rather
than kicking, so they put me to work flutter kicking.  I'm told to
kick from the hips with my knees stiff and my toes pointed.  This
doesn't get me anywhere with a kick board.  I've heard that this sort
of stiff-legged kicking is the "old school" and that modern swimmers
relax their legs and ankles and kick more like people do with fins.
My coaches seem very up-to-date, so I wonder if the stiff-legged
kicking is a pedagogical technique that's intended to get me through a
certain beginner stage.  I'll ask, but meanwhile, could people tell me
about kicking, and how to get my kick board moving?  

Thanks,

Jayne West
From: dsew@troi.cc.rochester.edu (David Sewell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Length of Jr Olympic pool?
Date: 10 Oct 92 17:29:45 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

I've recently moved into a complex that has a lap pool &
have begun serious endurance swimming for the first time ever.
I've been told that the pool is "Junior Olympic size" but
the informatnt wasn't sure how long that is.  From pacing
it off it would seem to be 20 or 25m.  Can anyone tell
me which it would be?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: bfbrown@athena.mit.edu (Brian F. Brown)
Subject: Re: Treatment for swimmer's ear
To: zuniga@loligo.cc.fsu.edu
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:21:50 GMT

In article <1b2ekrINNi9o@agate.berkeley.edu>, sag@hera.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Goldfield) writes:
|> >In article <1992Oct5.133045.15293@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> zuniga@loligo.cc.fsu.edu (Ralph Zuniga (FREAC/CAR)) writes:
|> #>>
|> #>>	I'm starting to suffer from what seems to be a small fungus
|> #>>infection in my left ear, swimmer's ear.
|> #>>
|> #>>	Does anyone have any recommendations for treatment?  I'd prefered
|> #>>home treatments but prescription medication is fine also.


There was a product called "swim-ear" which I used to use... It is
nothing more than .05% HCl in isopropyl alcohol.  It said it was for
the "prevention and cure" of swimmer's ear: get it at a swim meet or
through the swim shop, or, if you're lucky, a sporting goods store
sympathetic to swimming.

-BB
From: bucur@pollux.usc.edu (alexander bucur)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Re: how fast? (Meters<>yards)
Date: 16 Oct 1992 09:47:25 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

sandilands@hg.uleth.ca writes:
>I recall reading that (1) Jim Montgomery, who was the first person to go under
>:50 for 100m didn't start serious competitive swimming until he was in
>University;  (2) Same for Matt Biondi. 

I have seen a list of top 100 sprinters in high-school (ever) and he was in
top 25 in 25 yards, 50, and 100 yards (if I remember correctly).

He went to UC Berkeley with a full scholarship, and he played water-polo
for 4 years.  He was and All-American in water-polo for 2 or 3 years
which suggests to me that he has been playing water-polo for 2-3 years
in high-school.  So, he must have started swimming when he was at least
14.

Sasha



Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: murphyc@ava.bcc.orst.edu (Chris Murphy)
Subject: Re: Treatment for swimmer's ear
Organization: Biological Computing Consortium, OSU
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 04:42:39 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.133045.15293@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> zuniga@loligo.cc.fsu.edu (Ralph Zuniga (FREAC/CAR)) writes:
>
>	I'm starting to suffer from what seems to be a small fungus
>infection in my left ear, swimmer's ear.
>
>	Does anyone have any recommendations for treatment?  I'd prefered
>home treatments but prescription medication is fine also.

Mix a 50:50 solution of white vinegar and isopropyl alcohol.  I'm not an
expert on fungi, but the acidic vinegar will help maintain a pH unfavorable
to most fungi.  The alcohol will help dilute the solution and make for faster
drying.  I use boric acid instead of vinegar because I got tired of smelling
like a salad after I went swimming.  You can get boric acid (powder) at your
local drugstore; mix with water according to the directions and use as vinegar
above.

Chris Murphy  murphyc@bcc.orst.edu
Oregon State University
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: macl6441@mach1.wlu.ca (macleod heather)
Subject: Re: Flutter Kicking?
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 22:45:30 GMT


fOLLOWUp-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Keywords: 

The most likely reason that your coach is getting you to kick with straight
legs is to give you the idea that your legs are ESSENTIALLY straight while
swimming free.  In actual fact, they do bend a BIT from the knees and
ankles, but if you were to actually think about that while you were
swimming, you would most likely end up bending too far, and you could
actually push yourself backwards.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Re: Goggle recommandation?
From: Paul Fortoul <OWLCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tuesday, 6 Oct 1992 20:42:19 EDT
 <1992Oct6.030422.14357@news2.cis.umn.edu><92280.083809U52809@uicvm.uic.edu> <1992Oct6.171634.8754@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

Larry Watanabe <watanabe@milton.cs.uiuc.edu> writes:

>Chuck Amsler <U52809@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>
>>Based on a thread that went throuth this newsgroup a few months ago, I picked-
>>up a pair of Speedo "Sweedish" goggles a few weeks ago.  They have no foam or
>>rubber seal and take a bit of getting used to, ...
>
>What DO they have to make a seal?

They don't have anything.  Your face makes the seal with the goggles.
As with any pair of goggles you have to find goggles that fit the shape
of your face.  I was quite surprised when I first tried them, but they
are no more uncomfortable than any other pair of goggles, unless you get
smacked in the face.  The bottom line is that they work for me.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: honig@cs.cornell.edu (Sue Utter Honig)
Subject: Re: Swimmers Shampoo
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 19:43:55 GMT

There's been mention of UltraSwim shampoo; someone else posted that it
didn't seem any more effective than a regular shampoo.  I've been told
by a couple of hair stylists that UltraSwim is not good for your hair.
I have no personal experience with this, so can't confirm or deny that claim.
I use a special shampoo from Regis - don't know that that's any better.

I've been told by several stylists that the best thing to do is to wet
your hair, coat the ends with a dilute conditioner (yesterday my new
stylist suggested using a balsam one because it coats your hair so
well), then swim with a cap.

Don't know that it makes any difference for me - if the chlorine
doesn't screw up my hair, the iron in the water at home will!

Sue Utter Honig
honig@cs.cornell.edu
From: osterber@husc8.harvard.edu (Richard Osterberg)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Anyone know the REAL olympic length?
Date: 12 Oct 92 14:02:09 GMT

Here's a technical question. Does anyone know *exactly* how long an
olympic pool must be, and also how long a regulation NCAA collegiate
swimming pool must be? I'll give you a hint, it's not 50 meters or 25 yards.
-Rick
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: watanabe@milton.cs.uiuc.edu (Larry Watanabe)
Subject: hydrodynamic lift
Summary: don't understand lift/drag
Keywords: lift drag propulsion
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 22:59:52 GMT

I have been reading Ernest Maglischo's book
"Swimming Faster". It seems like an excellent book.
However, I confess that I really don't understand
the principles behind "hydronamic lift" that are
"explained" in the book. 

Can someone clarify this for me? 

The idea behind hydronamic lift is that you 
shouldn't push water directly backwards, you
should use your hands/arms like propellers 
instead, sweeping water around to create
lift forces.

Thanks

-Larry Watanabe
From: earhartgregm@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: European Teams/Swimmers Please Respond
Date: 16 Oct 92 00:14:36 CDT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

Help, I'm still searching for pools/teams to swim in/with this January as I 
travel to Europe.  I have pools in London, Paris, and Munich, but don't 
know of any teams as of yet.  I would love to swim with clubs, 
universities, etc, and will bring ample caps to trade.  Our itinerary is as 
follows:
	3-7	London (6th at Oxford)
	8-11	Ansterdam
	11-14	Munich (13th in Oberammergau)
	14-17	Rome (16th at Pompeii)
	18	Florence
	19	Milan
	20-23	Paris
	23-27	Madrid.
It's the height of our training season, but where else could I visit these 
eight cities for under $2000?  Any help would be greatly appreaciated!

earhartgregm@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: pol30546@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Peder Larsen)
Subject: Re: how fast? (Meters<>yards)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 00:30:13 GMT

sandilands@hg.uleth.ca writes:

>I recall reading that (1) Jim Montgomery, who was the first person to go under
>:50 for 100m didn't start serious competitive swimming until he was in
>University;  (2) Same for Matt Biondi. 

 I have already posted one response to this but I just noticed something else:

 Biondi was training well before he entered Cal.  How else do you think he
 got there?  Biondi was on the '84 Olympic team and won a gold medal there.
 He started college either in the fall of '84 or maybe in '85. 
 He proved himself as the world's top sprinter
 in the summer of '85.
From: osterber@husc8.harvard.edu (Richard Osterberg)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Re: Length of Jr Olympic pool?
Date: 12 Oct 92 13:59:31 GMT
Distribution: na

>true olympic pool is of course 50 meters long and a lot wider than the average
>pool (I forget the width).  I think 10 lanes are also required nowadays but
>I could be wrong on this point. 

Truly "olympic" pools must comply with FINA (I think that's Federation
Internationale de Natation Association or something like that)
regulations. It does require the pool to be 10 lanes wide. I believe lanes
must be 8 feet across.
-Rick
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: paque@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Julie Paque)
Subject: Re: how fast? (Meters<>yards)
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 21:43:01 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.183317.16358@honte.uleth.ca> sandilands@hg.uleth.ca writes:
>A couple of points:
>
>I recall reading that (1) Jim Montgomery, who was the first person to go under
>:50 for 100m didn't start serious competitive swimming until he was in
>University;  (2) Same for Matt Biondi.  Andrea Nugent who is the Canadian

Not true of Jim Montgomery, I was an age group swimmer in the Milwaukee
area at the same time he was swimming, and he definitely was swimming 
seriously before college.

Julie
From: jlinder@Bonnie.ICS.UCI.EDU (Darrow Linder)
Subject: Re: Length of Jr Olympic pool?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Date: 11 Oct 92 06:18:39 GMT

When I swam in Junior Olympics a number of years back, the size varied.
During the summer swim season, Junior Olympics were held in 50 meter pools
(olympic size) and during winter season, they were held in 25 yard pools.
I don't think this has changed in the past few years so I would guess
25 yards...

Hope this helps!

-Darrow
From: bebmza@sru001.chvpkh.chevron.com (Beverly M. Zalan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Re: Swimmers Shampoo
Date: 8 Oct 92 13:46:41 GMT
Reply-To: bebmza@sru001.chvpkh.chevron.com (Beverly M. Zalan)
Organization: Chevron CEPS

> I've been told by several stylists that the best thing to do is to wet
y>our hair, coat the ends with a dilute conditioner (yesterday my new
>stylist suggested using a balsam one because it coats your hair so
>well), then swim with a cap.

My 8 year old daughter has very fine hair that in the past has been
totally trashed by clorine.  I have used the above method for over a 
year (we have a squirt bottle with a conditioner and water mix, and
we wet her hair down before swimming with it) and have had NO
problems with her hair this year.  A silicon cap helps to keep it all
in there.   Then she washes after workout with normal shampoo and
lots of conditioner.

Beverly M. Zalan
bebmza@sru001.chvpkh.chevron.com
From: sag@hera.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Goldfield)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Re: hydrodynamic lift
Date: 12 Oct 1992 21:20:49 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: hera.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Oct12.135208.7546@iscsvax.uni.edu> luebke5317@iscsvax.uni.edu (Phil Luebke) writes:
#>In article <1992Oct9.225952.7778@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, watanabe@milton.cs.uiuc.edu (Larry Watanabe) writes:
#>> I have been reading Ernest Maglischo's book
#>> "Swimming Faster". It seems like an excellent book.
#>> However, I confess that I really don't understand
#>> the principles behind "hydronamic lift" that are
#>> "explained" in the book. 
#>> 
#>> Can someone clarify this for me? 
#>> 
While the advice on hand movements others gave was
correct, they have nothing to do with hydrodynamic
lift. Hydrodynamic lift is similar to hydroplaning
in a boat. As you swim faster, your body rides higher
in the water, creating less drag, which makes it
easier to swim. (An old coach I knew, Bob Muir,
who coached in the 1956 Olympics I think, used to
say that the fastest way to swim is also the easiest
way to swim.) That's one reason your stroke is significantly
different in a race than in a workout.

Steve Goldfield
From: watanabe@milton.cs.uiuc.edu (Larry Watanabe)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: how fast?
Keywords: speed
Date: 13 Oct 92 03:23:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: m.1992Oct13.032329.14535
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL

Here's a question that maybe is easier for poorer
swimmers to answer:

How fast can an "average" person get?

Let's assume that this average joe/jane learns how to swim
before he/she is 10, and decides to start train seriously at
the following ages:

	5	years
	10	years
	15	years
	20	years
	25	years
	35	years
	40	years

What are your guesses for how fast the person could get 
in the following events?:

	50	yd	freestyle
	100	yd	  "
	200	yd	  "
	400	yd	  "

-Larry Watanabe
From: bebmza@sru001.chvpkh.chevron.com (Beverly M. Zalan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Re: how fast? (Meters<>yards)
Date: 16 Oct 92 14:57:50 GMT
Reply-To: bebmza@sru001.chvpkh.chevron.com (Beverly M. Zalan)
Organization: Chevron CEPS

>  Biondi was training well before he entered Cal.  How else do you think he
> got there?  Biondi was on the '84 Olympic team and won a gold medal there.
> He started college either in the fall of '84 or maybe in '85. 
> He proved himself as the world's top sprinter
> in the summer of '85.


Biondi was swimming summer rec from age 5.  He still holds records in
a local meet for the 5 year old 25 free (~19.6) and the 6 year old free
(~16.5).  So you can see, he was quite exceptional even then.  I do hear,
that he did not swim USS (year round) until about age 13. 

Beverly M. Zalan
bebmza@sru001.chvpkh.chevron.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: redmondd@unix1.tcd.ie (Judge Raz)
Subject: Re: Anyone know the REAL olympic length?
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 15:17:11 GMT

In <osterber.718898529@husc8> osterber@husc8.harvard.edu (Richard Osterberg) writes:

>Here's a technical question. Does anyone know *exactly* how long an
>olympic pool must be, and also how long a regulation NCAA collegiate
>swimming pool must be? I'll give you a hint, it's not 50 meters or 25 yards.
>-Rick

It's 50m plus a few centimetres for the widths of the timing pads. This is 
assuming you're not using booms to vary the length of the pool, otherwise
you'd have to take their width into a/c aswell. 

Judge Raz

P.S: If this is wrong, please forward the correct answer.
     I'd love to know.
From: rule@kenyon.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Re: how fast?
Date: 16 Oct 92 14:37:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: kenyon.1992Oct16.193726.130
Organization: Kenyon College

In article <1992Oct13.032329.14535@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, watanabe@milton.cs.uiuc.edu (Larry Watanabe) writes:
> Here's a question that maybe is easier for poorer
> swimmers to answer:
> 
> How fast can an "average" person get?
> 
> Let's assume that this average joe/jane learns how to swim
> before he/she is 10, and decides to start train seriously at
> the following ages:
> 
> 	5	years
> 	10	years
> 	15	years
> 	20	years
> 	25	years
> 	35	years
> 	40	years
> 
> What are your guesses for how fast the person could get 
> in the following events?:
> 
> 	50	yd	freestyle
> 	100	yd	  "
> 	200	yd	  "
> 	400	yd	  "
> 
> -Larry Watanabe

Heh I don't think a 5  or a 10 year old would be doing a 400 free
This question however depends on the individual.  I know a few 15 year olds
who just fly in the 400 free and a few that fly in the 50 and 100.  It
all depends on the person...

	John            
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: aj3u@ruby.cs.virginia.edu (Asim Jalis)
Subject: Swimming Schedule
Organization: University of Virginia, Charlottesville, VA 22903
Distribution: rec
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 21:49:55 GMT

I am interested in swimming to develop my cardiovascular system
and musculature.  I would like to have books suggested to me that
have information on the following questions: what sort of routine
I should follow, how I should build up from scratch, and how I
should increase my endurance.

Asim Jalis.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: pol30546@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Peder Larsen)
Subject: Re: TV MEETS
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 00:38:06 GMT

kporterf@scott.skidmore.edu (Kevin S. Porterfield) writes:

>   Okay, so we all love swimming. Which in turn would suggest that we all 
>love to watch swimming as well (or some of us). Well where did NBC get all 
>of the footage from the US Open and NCAA championships and all of the other 
>meets that they had footage from? The first time EVER (besides the olympics) 
>that I saw swimming on TV was last year when they showed (parts of) the 
>trials. I'd assume that ESPN would televise these things but I've never 
>heard anything. Is anything coming up that anyone knows about?

    I've seen a few meets on tv.  ESPN occasionally carries a dual meet or
two.  The networks show the NCAA meets about a month after they happen.  I
think ABC usually has them, on Wide World of Sports.  TBS shows the US Open,
which should be aired in late November or early December.  Last year I think
it was on about 1-2 weeks after they finished.  The meet is the third week
of November this year, I think.
From: spohn@mayo.edu (Albert Frederick Spohn)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Re: Flutter Kicking?
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:01:16 GMT
Organization: Mayo Clinic

In article <ldm8kfINNmqc@news.bbn.com>, jwest@BBN.COM (Jayne K. West) writes:
> 
> I've just begun to swim seriously at age 43.  I have swum all my life,
> but I never learned to swim formally and never did any strokes besides
> the freestyle.  I've joined the master's program at a local swim club.
> The first thing my coaches pointed out was that I drug my legs rather
> than kicking, so they put me to work flutter kicking.  I'm told to
> kick from the hips with my knees stiff and my toes pointed.  This
> doesn't get me anywhere with a kick board.  I've heard that this sort
> of stiff-legged kicking is the "old school" and that modern swimmers
> relax their legs and ankles and kick more like people do with fins.
> My coaches seem very up-to-date, so I wonder if the stiff-legged
> kicking is a pedagogical technique that's intended to get me through a
> certain beginner stage.  I'll ask, but meanwhile, could people tell me
> about kicking, and how to get my kick board moving?  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jayne West
> 
One of the most common causes of "stationary" kicking that I've observed is
the failure of one's toes to actually be pointed (even though they feel 
pointed).  Have someone look closely at your feet as you kick - if they're
not pointing, try warming up with fins to introduce some ankle flexibility.
Good luck!

- Al 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: pol30546@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Peder Larsen)
Subject: Re: how fast?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 05:44:04 GMT
Keywords: speed

watanabe@milton.cs.uiuc.edu (Larry Watanabe) writes:

>How fast can an "average" person get?

>Let's assume that this average joe/jane learns how to swim
>before he/she is 10, and decides to start train seriously at
>the following ages:

>	5	years
>	10	years
>	15	years
>	20	years
>	25	years
>	35	years
>	40	years

	Larry, this is an awefully difficult question to give a good answer
to.  There are many variables involved including exactly how serious the
person is, are there qualified coaches available, a good team to swim with,
good facilities, will the person do weights and dry land as well, are the
faclilities available year round, etc.
	Assuming the person is very serious and has access to the best 
facilities around and will fully participate year round, I'll try to guess.

	5 yrs. - Unlimited potential; many top swimmers start between the
				      ages of 5 and 8

       10 yrs. - Virtually unlimited potential; starting around the age of
				      10 it is getting late for top swimmers
				      to start, although it is not unheard
				      of, and some great swimmers start around
				      this time

       15 yrs. - Limited potential; swimmers starting at this age can still
				    get pretty fast, they can make high school
				    varsity level and some "miracle" cases
				    reach college level

       20 yrs. - Limited potential; swimmers can still reach high school
				    varsity level, but college is very
				    difficult (I've witnessed this BTW and
				    I was amazed that someone at this age
				    could improve so much in one year)

	Above 20 years I have no experience and I don't think that I could
give you an informed answer.  Perhaps some of the Master's people here can
continue (or add to mine).  
    	As far as times go:

		"Decent"  	HS Varsity	College
50 free   	  25		   23		  20
100 free         1:00		   50             46
200 free	 2:10            1:49		1:40
500 free         5:45            4:55		4:30

	These "decent" times are for people 30 and younger, the HS Varsity
times are close to the statemeet cuts in Illinois and the college times are
about what the top freshman do (to make the team while in HS).  

	Remember, it takes a while to build up to a certain level and these
"decent" times would be great times for people older than 30 or who have 
recently started out.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming