HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Inexperienced boaters
Date: 11 Sep 1992 15:48:50 -0400
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. - Vienna, Va.
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: gilligan.east.sun.com

In article <1992Sep11.183142.4346@meaddata.com> davidm@meaddata.com (David Miller) writes:
>|>  
>|> We all got to start somewhere...or has someone figured out how to be
>|> born with boating knowledge and experience?
>|>  
>
>I learned boat handling as a kid from my dad.  He still has the boat he
>got when I was 2.  
>
>I do remember the first time I launched on my own...  Took me all 3 lanes
>to back the trailer down!  Luckily, it was a weekday morning, and I didn't
>have anybody blocked.  The old fisherman using the 4th lane had a real good
>laugh....
>

I agree with what both of you are saying.

I'm not just referring to "ramp antics", although they are a very
good gauge of experience.

I'm talking about rigging the boat properly, buying a trailer
that can haul the boat plus a few hundred pounds (and placing
the boat on said trailer properly), and also going to the add-
ed expense of installing a hitch that can handle what you are
towing.

I see so many people buy all the boat they can afford, then plop
it on a trailer that is grotesquely undersized, and hence a dan-
ger to everyone it is towed near. Also, a boat trailer is suppo-
sed to sit level behind the tow vehicle. Not bow up or bow down.
That's how it was designed to bear the boat's weight, and the
owner should take the time to ensure that his rig's attitude is
correct, before taking off down the highway.

Then we come to the guy who tows a 3500-pound boat and trailer
off of his 2000-lb. rated pickup truck bumper, and you can act-
ually see the bumper flex as he is towing. I cannot fathom tak-
ing my hard-earned bucks, and plopping it on something that is
not (and plainly says so) designed to pull that amount of weight.

I still make my mistakes both on the ramp, and on the water,
as well. I just do my damndest not to be a liability to those
around me. I don't ever want to be the guy that hurt someone
out of my own negligence or stupidity.

Lack of experience can be overcome, but there is no excuse for
irresponsibility or ignorance. All this stuff should be common
sense, but the world isn't flat.

-- Mike

--------------------------------------------------------------
My opinion. Not my employer's.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: daves@bluemoon.rn.com (David E. Scott)
Subject: Re: winter storage
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 92 01:09:16 EDT

garnham@convex.csd.uwm.edu (David C Garnham) writes:

> 
> I'd appreciate advice on proper storage of a new 17' I/O.  Should I pay $100
> extra for inside storage, or settle for shrink wrapped outside storage with
> separate battery storage?  Remember, this is Wisconsin where winters are
> real.  Thanks.

I've stored glass boats inside at the St. Lawrence River (Thousand Island 
region) since the purchase in the early 1960's.  The dealer stores boats 
stacked 3 high in slots in metal barn specially made for this.  They are 
in excellent condition.  The battery is stored separately in a special 
area that's heated and the dealer spends part of the winter putting the 
battery on trickle charge, along with a number of other batteries.  We 
generally get about 3 years' use of the 70 month batteries.  I'd recommend 
inside storage for your equipment, at least under roof - you'll have a 
much longer lasting boat.
Dave
PS. You say you're from Wisconsin.  By any chance are you from the Fox 
River section near Green Bay?  We've heard that's a nice place and are 
planning to visit there, and would like some info about it.  thanks.

sig: Quantum Mechanics have smaller tools
        and don't really know where they are...
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jrkrause@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Jim Krause)
Subject: Boat painting question
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 16:53:01 GMT

I'm repairing some nicks, holes and scratches on the fiberglass hulls
of my Hobie Cat. Since the color has faded so badly over the years, I
want to paint it after finishing the repairs.

From reference sources I've gathered that there are three types of paint
to consider using: alklyd, modified alklyd or 2-part polyurethane. The
marina and body shop people I spoke with all use and recommend the
2-part polyurethane stuff which is of course, the most difficult to
apply and the most expensive. ($40-$50 per quart!)

While I've read that there are roll-on versions of the 2-part stuff,
nobody seems to carry any. The suppliers I've talked to only have the
spray-on stuff.

I've never spray painted before (except with the disposable cans) and
don't look forward to rounding up a compressor, spray gun etc, and
spend time learning enough so that I can be able to carry out a mediocre
job. But at the same time I don't want to invest $300 in paying a
professional to paint the thing (the boat's worth no more than $900).

Aargghh. What should I do? Use spray cans of alklyd- which I've heard
will last 2 years at best? Are roll-on 2-part polyurethanes really
available? Should I go to trade school and then open up my own painting
business?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

And yes, I've considered selling it but I'd have to paint the
thing first before anyone would want to buy it. :^)
-- 
	Jim Krause 
	jrkrause@ucs.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: johnf@HQ.Ileaf.COM (John Finlayson)
Subject: Clear Lake (was: Hobie mast repaired - thanks much!)
Keywords: hobie
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 17:08:41 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.150802.25282@morrow.stanford.edu> GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan) writes:

>Now if I can hang on to my drain plugs I'm ready to go again.  (I
>lost one this weekend going to nearby Clear Lake on a fantastic
>Hobie day. The wind was too strong to take any chances jury rigging
>something for it.  I could see myself foundered 4 miles from any
>shore. Dang.)
>
>Mike

I sailed many lakes and bays in California when I lived there, and I've never seen better Hobie conditions than on Clear Lake in the summer.  Three hour drive from Palo Alto, but it we were never disappointed.

John.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: petere@tesla.mitre.org (Peter D. Engels)
Subject: Re: Corrosion question
Followup-To: rec.boats
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 18:21:37 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.213721.22177@phx.mcd.mot.com>, dbk@phx.mcd.mot.com
(Dave Kinzer) wrote:
> 
>    I am curious as to whether it is better to leave your seacocks
> open or closed when away from the boat for a time.  In a salt-water
> environment, the sacrificial zinc is connected both electrically
> (via the bonding system) and physically (through the saltwater) to
> the engine (or generator, macerator, strainer, etc.)  When you close 
> the seacock, the system traps saltwater in the system, with no zinc
> to act as the sacrificial anode.  Is this going to cause corrosion
> faster than with the seacock open? 
> 
>    It is possible that the engine (or other systems) have a zinc anode
> in them to prevent this, so let's take a theoretical approach here and
> proclaim that the system does not.  Is the trapped saltwater going to
> cause appreciable corrosion?
> 

If you're really considering leaving your seacocks open when you're not
aboard, why have them at all?  There's a safety factor here, that's by far
the most important consideration.  Besides, it wouldn't make a difference
whether the seacock is open or closed, since the electrical connection is
always there, and that's all that counts.

-Pete
From: george@mech.seas.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Is transom exhaust worth while?
Keywords: transom exhaust ski power
Date: 5 Sep 92 14:51:17 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, Mechanical Engineering

:>on my 28' Baja whick allows me to choose between through transom (no mufflers)
:>and through prop.  This is a must in NJ since noise limits are enforced in my
:>area.  The boat is a 28' Baja with twin 502's spinning 27" props and I had the
:							^^
:Is this correct?????
:

surely, thats the pitch.
From: tomm@voodoo.boeing.com (Tom Mackey)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: "Jiffy" reefing
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:35:07 GMT
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA

In article <1992Sep9.215730.24186@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>My Freedom 21 has built-in one-lead jiffy reefing on each of two
>reef points, and its not as practical as it should be. One problem
>is that all the sheaves have worn, and i'm taking care of this with
>a bunch of new small parts from Kenyon. But the other thing that disturbs
>me is that the reefing line -- both at the luff and the leech -- goes
>up to an eye and through and down again. In a perfect world this would
>give me a 2:1 advantage, but it seems to me that the frictional losses
>as the line bends sharply through the sail will more than offset this
>mathematical advantage. Questions. Would I do better using reef hooks
>and no mechanical advantage? Could i use blocks at the reef hooks to
>return me the 2:1 advantage? Is it OK to use blocks like this or is it an
>aerodynamic disaster? maybe blocks are OK forward at the mast end but not
>at the leech?
>
>Francis Muir
>FELIX
>Redwood City
>California

My Freedom 21 has reefing hooks at the luff.  The lines do not cross
through the sail at the luff, therefore, but only at the leech.  I have
not had to reef mine yet, but it seemed to work OK when I tried it as it
sat out in front of the house on its trailer.  The hooks are make of
approx. 1/4 in. SS and the loop is twisted 90 deg. from the sail so that
the line has a straight lead from the front of the boom and back down to
the boom turning block.

Maybe Bill Arnold, the netter I bought my F21 from (Hi, Bill!) could give
us further enlightenment.  I believe he used the reefing quite a bit on
the mountain lakes he sailed on.

In the Bay, where you will frequently be in conditions requiring reefing,
I would not hesitate to add some Harkin mini-blocks to the reefing hooks.
The problem would be the extra length would not let you pull them in far
enough.  But since it sounds like your reefing hooks are gone, maybe you
could fabricate some with a small turning block built in.

BTW, my sail is rigged so that the starboard reefing line is used as a
downhaul to tension the luff.  The port line is used as the first reef.
In your conditions, you may want both rigged as reef lines.  I figure
that as soon as I have to use the first reef, I'll move the starboard
hook up to the the second reef point.

On another subject I noted your questions about the jib (staysail); the
literature on the boat suggests that the staysail is good for a rather
limited range of conditions (< 10 knots wind).  That is exactly what
we have here in Seattle, so I will be ordering the larger of the two
jibs when I get some extra bux, but you may want to reconsider if you
really need one or not.  Even in light conditions (5 - 8 knots) my
boat seems to point pretty respectfully.

-- 
Tom Mackey       (206) 865-6575        tomm@voodoo.boeing.com
Boeing Computer Services         ....uunet!bcstec!voodoo!tomm
M/S 7K-20,     P.O. Box 24346,     Seattle, WA     98124-0346
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: heon@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (garry.j.heon)
Subject: Re: Bayliner myths: a challenge
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 14:57:04 GMT

In article <1357@niktow.canisius.edu>, pavlov@niktow.canisius.edu (Greg Pavlov) writes:
> In article <1992Sep8.130206.24082@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>, jadams@vixen.uucp (26070-adams) writes:
>  It was obviously the Corp of Engineer's fault for  not straightening out 
>  the channel for this responsible and mature/adult boater.  I'm sure that
>  his lawyer will be in contact with them shortly.   :-)
>  greg pavlov
>  pavlov@fstrf.org
> (and imagine if there was a family or a group having a picninc there.  Woulda
> been their fault if someone got hurt.  It's a posted no swimming area, after
> all.  So they'd get sued as well.  Those fast-boat people know their constit-
> utional rights.....)

I am truely offended by these remarks.  Just because a few go fast boaters
have no respect for the law or common sense for that matter doesn't mean
we are all dangerous to the boating public.  A few weeks ago I had a run-in
with a BLOW BOATER that was "tacking" ( sailing up wind, correct term?)
in a very narrow channel (200' wide)in the Shrewsbury river.  No problem, right?
WRONG, the asshole decided that he would troll while he was tacking back and
forth across the channel.  Traffic was light and everone in sight was going
slow ie. no wake.   Anyway this blowie had his fishing pole mounted somewhere
high on the boat with a least a 150' of line trailing him.  It's a good thing
I was respecting the law and no wake zones because the line did manage to
catch two of my pasangers across the neck slicing them minorly.  Thank god!

Before you go judging all go fasts as a problem you better realize that
BLOWIES have a few people that are problems as well.  As far as getting sued,
I sooner shoot the bas*&$d lawyer than seek his advice.

******************************************
* MY OPINIONS.............AT&T's NETWORK *
* Garry Heon                     AT&T    *
* heon@cbnewsg.att.com       Holmdel, NJ *
******************************************

From: jefftb@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Jeff Brown)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:41:40 GMT
Subject: Re: Clear Lake (was: Hobie mast repaired - thanks much!)
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (NMD MTA MWTD)
Newsgroups: rec.boats

   In the late summer there is often no winds until late afternoon, about
   3 to 5 o'clock. Clear lake can get quite windy in early summer all
   day. I'm heading up there right now to waterski so i'm hoping for no wind.
   Seems like a good sailing lake but not alot of sailors(?).

   Just my $0.02
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jadams@vixen.uucp (26070-adams)
Subject: Re: Bayliner myths: a challenge
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 13:02:06 GMT
Summary: Just deserts

In article <1992Sep3.202114.17062@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>, rbaist@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (robert.t.baist) writes:
> In article <1992Sep3.194942.21346@cbfsb.cb.att.com> heon@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (garry.j.heon) writes:
> >In article <1992Sep3.190840.26391@cs.ubc.ca>, goldberg@cs.ubc.ca (Murray W. Goldberg) writes:

> Gary---
> At least you go out to the ocean to do this! I sail on Barnegat Bay and when  
> I'm out there I get 40' cigarette boats going flat out (80mph+) buzzing me 
> by 20 - 30 feet. 
> 
> Bob B.
> "Sheer Delight"

Dear Thread contributors,

This weekend on the aforementioned Barnegat Bay, one of these "Straw
Hatters" (A local term for jewelry festooned morons) managed to park his
32' go fast machine high and dry on double creek shoals.  Friends of mine
who make a living doing salvage and towing told me he was going "hell bent
for election" when he failed to notice that the poor excuse for a channel
made a 90 degree dog leg to port...Oops!   Net effect was to provide
considerable work for my friends {It has been a good year ;-)!}, a
tremendous example to those who operate vessels irresponsibly, and a source
of derisive humor to many of the locals!

Oh yes, thank God that no one was hurt, except for the skipper's pride
which, based on my discussion with him, could use it!

Capt. Jack Adams		| Bellcore RRC 4B-259
(908) 699-3447 {Voice}		| (908) 336-2871 {Facsimile}
jadams@vixen.bellcore.com	| kahuna@attmail.com
From: steve@acuson.com (Steve Benelisha)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Clear Lake (was: Hobie mast repaired - thanks much!)
Keywords: hobie
Date: 11 Sep 92 13:49:20 GMT
Organization: Acuson; Mountain View, California

johnf@HQ.Ileaf.COM (John Finlayson) writes:

>In article <1992Sep9.150802.25282@morrow.stanford.edu> GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan) writes:

>>Now if I can hang on to my drain plugs I'm ready to go again.  (I
>>lost one this weekend going to nearby Clear Lake on a fantastic
>>Hobie day. The wind was too strong to take any chances jury rigging
>>something for it.  I could see myself foundered 4 miles from any
>>shore. Dang.)
>>
>>Mike

>I sailed many lakes and bays in California when I lived there, and I've never seen better Hobie conditions than on Clear Lake in the summer.  Three hour drive from Palo Alto, but it we were never disappointed.

>John.

Another great lake is Woodward Reservoir, near Oakdale on Hwy 120. A two
hour drive from Palo Alto. Perfect Cat conditions and you can camp right
on the lake shore. Its small compared to Clear Lake though.

-Steve
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Subject: A sailing problem
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:18:25 GMT


A year or so ago I proposed a couple of thought experiments---situations that
*might* arise while sailing---for folks to think about and propose solutions
to. Here's another. There's no real problem here, just an exercise in thinking
about appropriate preparations.

It's late in the season (see why this came to mind?) and you have to sail 
from your mooring over to the harbor where your boat gets hauled out each year. 
She's 28 feet, a sloop rigged cruiser, and you've brought along a couple of 
sailing friends to help out. The sail is about 15 miles, and you're getting 
hauled out first thing Saturday morning. You meet up with your friends after 
work on Friday (cutting out a bit early) and get to the boat at 5 PM. It's 
October 15, and the boat is kept in CT. 

Late Thursday night a coldfront passed through, and the NW winds that followed
the front have been dropping, but it's still a good steady 8-12 kts from 
the NW. The course from your mooring, along the coast to the haulout place, 
is about SW. 

What preparations do you make before setting out? You have arranged, by the
way, to pick up a mooring at the haulout harbor---it's mooring number 237, and
it has a white float with a blue and gold band and the numbers "237" on it. 

-John
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: marc@marcal.uucp (Marc Veeneman)
Subject: Ship's clock sources wanted
Organization: Marcal Systems Corporation
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:01:20 GMT

Anybody know of a source for inexpensive ship's clocks in working
order?  I'd like one for the office, but even the used prices here
in the midwest are over $200.  
-- 
Marc
------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Opinions are cheap, experience dear.  Collect opinions.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (especially the mouth part of the face)
Subject: Another great sailing weekend...
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:34:00 GMT

Was out in West River and the bay in the 470 with 25 kts. and rain saturday.
Some of the gusts were so strong we had to dump the jib to stay up. On the way
back it was a continuous plane broad reach with just jib and main. We paced
an F-27 all the way in. A little later he passed close by and said, "Just
thought you should know you were doing sustained 10 all the way in..." (I
replied, "Was that all?"). The West River Sailing Club is fantastic. One
Design sailing is not dead, they have something like ten classes, one is
right for anybody. I've never seen an International Canoe before. What a trip!


Tom O'Toole - ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu - JHUVMS system programmer 
Homewood Computing Facilities, Johns Hopkins University, Balto. Md. 21218 
> * OLX 2.1 * ease!Trim!eeeaaaassse!trimtrimTRIMeeeeeeeaaaaaasse!trimea
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Subject: Re: New jibs (was: Awesome sailing last weekend, huh?)
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:46:35 GMT

In article <STEPH.92Sep10140441@candide.uchicago.edu> steph@cs.uchicago.edu (Stephen Wilson Bailey) writes:
>Hmm...
>
> [responding to a Sonar sailor's claim that the new workign jib was a dog]
>I'd be interested to know what you discover.  I'm deeply curious what
>makes a sail a dog or a gem.
>
>>  ... Our fourth
>> this past weekend was the owner of Dimension Sailcloth and is an
>> aeronautical engineer....

I was wondering about that new smaller jib, combined with the large rudder
described on the Sonar. If the small jib induces greater helm, I'd *expect* it
to kill you. I don't recall the hull shape of the Sonar, but one question to
ask is "As I heel, does my center-of-waterplane move to leeward faster than my
center of effort?" If so, then heeling tends to *reduce* weather helm. 
This means that going to the small jib means (1) heeling less, increasing
weather helm, and (2) moving CE aft, increasing weather helm. 

On Sarah, where I have a big rudder, we reef down the main early on, and stick
with the 120% jib (the 160 goes down when the winds hit 12-15). We only switch
to the 90% when (a) we don't care how fast we're going, and feel lazy about
changing sails, or (b) the winds are strong enough that the 90% and
double-reefed (or even triple-reefed) main is enough for us---about 30 knots
windspeed...

Anyhow, you might try reefing the main with that small jib, and see if it
perhaps improves your performance.

-John

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: dbk@phx.mcd.mot.com (Dave Kinzer)
Subject: Corrosion question
Followup-To: rec.boats
Summary: To close or not to close, that is the question
Reply-To: teroach!dbk@phx.mcd.mot.com (Dave Kinzer)
Organization: Motorola Analog Integrated Circuits Division
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 21:37:21 GMT

   I am curious as to whether it is better to leave your seacocks
open or closed when away from the boat for a time.  In a salt-water
environment, the sacrificial zinc is connected both electrically
(via the bonding system) and physically (through the saltwater) to
the engine (or generator, macerator, strainer, etc.)  When you close 
the seacock, the system traps saltwater in the system, with no zinc
to act as the sacrificial anode.  Is this going to cause corrosion
faster than with the seacock open? 

   It is possible that the engine (or other systems) have a zinc anode
in them to prevent this, so let's take a theoretical approach here and
proclaim that the system does not.  Is the trapped saltwater going to
cause appreciable corrosion?

   
-Dave