HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kelvin Leung)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Unreal demo!
Date: 8 Sep 92 17:45:20 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:

>peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>>>
>>> Real-world reply:
>>> "But, the 486 is cheaper than the Amiga!"
>>
>>Where can I get a 486 box for $400?
>>

>You can't, but you can get a 386 box (no HD or monitor) for that price.  And
>don't tell me that the 386 can't compete with the A500.

a 386 box can of course compete with the A500.  However, I wonder if such
$400 386box come with VGA card and 8bit sound card...

Yours Sincerely,
Kelvin

                                            ____________________________
 __________________________________________/ Undergraduate, Class of 94 \___ 
/____________________________________________________________\_____/________\
|  Kelvin    /   Internet: Kelvin.Leung@Dartmouth.edu       ({o   o})       |
|   Leung   /       or     abs0@Coos.Dartmouth.edu        <  #  ^  #  >     | 
|__________/_______________________________________________(vvvvvvvvv)______|
| "Unless someone like you cares a whole |  Do you see a doll? a beast?     |
|  awful lot, nothing is going to get    |                                  |
|  better.  It's not."                   |  There are always more than one  |
|               -- Dr. Seuss (The Lorax) |  side to any story...            |
 \______________________________________/ \________________________________/
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 03:13:04 EDT
From: <DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Critical mass getting bigger? - was re: AmigaWorld Lies about Link
 <1992Sep10.074729.14214@utstat.uucp> <92254.134033DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu>
 <1992Sep11.041503.1390@utstat.uucp>

In article <1992Sep11.041503.1390@utstat.uucp>, philip@utstat.uucp (Philip
McDunnough) says:

>In article <92254.134033DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu> DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

>>I guess cheap, hires/hicolor/fast graphics, standardized sound cards, cheap
>>CDROMs, and way faster CPU for the same price (486-33 is very common now)
>>isn't progress. It is the Amiga that hasn't changed, leaving PCclones
>>plenty of time to catch up.

>The bus is a problem, the OS is a problem, audio is hardly standard and if
>you call the SB the standard then you've settled on a poor one. CD-ROM's
>are not cheap and the software is neither plenitful nor inexpensive. The
>CD industry is basically run by people try to bancrupt customer. $70 for
>a book. Please...I have a CD-ROM (in fact 3 of them). They are all slow and
>essentially only useful for system upgrades, and a few CD's.

Well, those problems (and some are just quibbles) are quite fixable, and the
PCclone market will progress just as it always had: consistently, continually,
improving. (Unlike the Amiga under Commodore's stewardship).

>Graphics on a PC is still not standard. You basically have VGA. Nothing else
>is there (unless you use Windows) except for the 8514 and XGA.

Fortuntely, the base PCclone standard now includes Windows, which will use
any graphics card (retargetable graphics). Maybe some future version of
AmigaOS will have this; I hope so.

>>Ever heard of Windows? Windows gives apps access to up to 16MB of memory.
>>Nobody claims that it's elegent, but you are just wrong.

>I use and own it. It sits on top of DOS. DOS gives you 1 meg. That part
>consists of 640k + upper memory. Windows will let you run many 640k type
>sessions. It uses virtual memory to get around the 640k issue. This, or
>whatever the trick is, has been around for years. Are you telling me that
>a Windows application can address in a linear fashion 16megs?

No, in 64K segments. (Needless to say I'm not going to defend the brain-dead
286 processor).

>I am biased at this point. I see nothing except for OS/2 version 2.0 which is
>nice about PC's. I'm really surprised Apple hasn't taken over.

The user doesn't care about the internal details of the OS. To the user,
Windows is just as slick as MacOS or AmigaOS (and looks a lot prettier than
AmigaOS :-)). Plus it runs the best business applications in the world.
(For those that care).
From: darling@cellar.org (Thomas Darling)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Atari Falcon Discount Supermachine
Date: 5 Sep 92 14:04:52 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:

> It is curious, though, that Werlitzer's doesn't advertise their name under
> the computer dealers section in the yellow pages.

It makes sense to me.  The only software they carry is music software.  Why
advertise to people who want DTP, word processing, etc?

> So while they are probably known to people who read music industry rags,
> they are not going to get the Atari Falcon into the hands of the little
> guy, who just wants to buy a computer without the hassle of braving the
> mind-blowing traffic of Boston.

That, sadly, is probably true.  But the vast majority of Falcon interest is
likely to come from musicians, so they might as well just hang out in their
little niche.  Realistically, the Falcon isn't going to bump out the PC for
anyone's choice of Basic Home Computer.

^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\\\^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Thomas A. Darling \\\ Fact HQ Studio * record production * dance re-mixing
darling@cellar.org \\\ music for film * The Cellar BBS:215/654-9184 * FACT
v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~\\\~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~
Organization: The Leader Desslok School of Diplomacy
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:51:22 EDT
From: Norman St. John Polevaulter <MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: A3000T and Mac Quadra pricing

Well, I finally had a chance to try out the Quadras (mousing around the
desktop, and running some QuickTime movies.) First impression: Finally,
a Macintosh that's snappy to use! Windows and menus pop up instantly.
Why, it's almost like using my old Amiga 500 :-)

QuickTime is kinda neat, but be warned that performance goes to hell with
windows much larger than the teeny ones most of their movies seem to use.
Well below 1 fps with a large window. When you get down to it, QT's really
just an anim player with the feature that anims can be pasted (to what end,
I'm not sure, but the ability's there) into applications that support it.
Shrug. But it does look cool, playing anims in a window like that.

The prices, I thought people might find interesting. As you well know the
A3000T/40 (68040, 68882, a reasonably big HD I believe, and a buncha slots)
goes for the insane, ridiculous price of $5999 (I don't know what the educ.
discount is, or even if there is one.)

There are two Mac Quadra models, both with 68040's but other than that fairly
different. The Quadra 700 is the "stripped-down" model with 4 MB RAM, an
"optional" HD of different sizes, and a couple slots; possibly comparable
to the regular Amiga 3000, except of course that it has an '040. Anyway,
its educational discount price is about $3500. I suppose that's good for
a Macintosh, but note that non-tower A3000's are much cheaper (and so will
the A4000 be if the recent post is any clue...)The list price of the Q700 is
(hold on to your hats) $5995!! Thus making it a better deal than the A3000T/40,
but not by very much!  Assuming decent 68040 cards come through for the regular
A3000 models, however, the Q700 would suffer by comparison. Nevertheless the
educational discount price is impressive.

TheQuadra 950 is the top-of-the-line Mac, with 8 MB RAM, huge HD, and about
eight slots in a tower case. Educational price $4500, list price $7000. See
above, really; the same thoughts apply to this model.

In summary? I don't think Commodore has to look over their shoulder at Apple.
As always, the PClones are our biggest competition.

Input is welcome.

[Your blood pressure just went up.]       Mark Sachs IS: mbs110@psuvm.psu.edu
       DISCLAIMER: If it ain't money, Penn State doesn't care about it.
   "Ladies and gentlemen, I've suffered for my music! Now it's your turn!"
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dusek@rtsg.mot.com (James P. Dusek)
Subject: Re: More AmigaWorld Lies
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 16:02:09 GMT

barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:

>News which was basically an obituary for the Amiga.

	Here we go again, Mark get a life.

>   Mr. Barney also goes on state facts that are simply wrong.  He states that 
>there are about 1000 Amiga dealers in the U.S., and there can't possibly be 
>this many.  There might have been this many in the U.S. when the Amiga was at
	
	Did you poll and find out?

>since then.  I know for a fact that there used to be six Amiga dealers in the
>state of Nebraska, and that there is only one now; and that there used to be 
>five Amiga dealers in the state of Iowa, and that there is only one here now
>as well.  I also know that the Midwest used to be stronger in Amiga sales as

	Ohhh Nebraska and Iowa have lost some Amiga dealers. THE AMIGA IS
DOOMED!! 

>for Amiga dealers in other parts of the U.S. is only 50% (again, I'm being
>generous; indications from the net lead me to believe that it exceeded 80%

	Your being an idiot.

>in other parts of the country as well), then this cannot leave more than 500
>dealers.  To get a figure of 1000 Amiga dealers, AmigaWorld must be counting
>Amiga 'repair' places that do not stock Amiga hardware or software, but simply

	Gee I got 8 Amiga Dealers, 2 of them new in my area. I know of
three more out of my area. That 13 in North Central Illinois. I am not
counting Chicago.

>of the workstations mentioned have an actively supported version of 
>Word Perfect 5.0 available for them, and the Amiga does not; and this is in

	Who cares about WP 5.0, I think it sucks. I hated useing it.

>spite of the fact that woprkstations as a rule have a lesser need for 
>productivity software than a home computer like the Amiga.  All of these 

	What, are you crazy! Workstation need more productivity software
than a home computer. A company doesn't drop $5,000 or more on a machine
so employees can play games. You really have shown you know nothing at
all about computers.

>it.  The response editorial by Mr. Barney was filled with more lies, 
>innuendos, and double-speak than the original article, by far.

	It was just like a -MB- post, huh.

James Dusek
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: A4000 Specs? Who knows.
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 17:15:35 GMT

In article <mykes.0dg9@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>
>This is my ovservation, based upon 2 months of owning my PC clone...  Word
>for windows, which is bundled WITH windows, is functionally identical to
>ProWrite 3.2 with the following differences:
>
>1.	ProWrite has a spell checker and thesaurus.
>2.	ProWrite supports multicolumns
>
>That's IT.

No, no no!  The WP that comes with Windows is called WRITE.  Word for
Windows is an ultra-mega type WP selling for lotsa bucks.
WRITE, the APPLET comes with windows, and is similar to Prowrite w/o
Spellchecker/thesaurus/multicolumns.

There is 3rd party PD or Shareware (I forgot), while not available to many
people, that checks spelling in any document, be it Notepad applet, or
Write, etc.
Net.people could probably find it at ftp.cica.indiana.edu.

>Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
-- 
Dan Stephenson                                           das9674@usl.edu
" BERLIN WALL FALLS.  3 BORDER GUARDS LOSE JOBS.  CLINTON BLAMES BUSH! "
        -George Bush, '92 Republican nomination acceptance speech
From: simon@ivem.uucp (Simon Lee)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Random tidbits regarding WOC & A4000
Date: 16 Sep 92 01:01:18 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivem.ucsd.edu

In article <1992Sep15.235547.1710@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> nwickham@nyx.cs.du.edu (Neal Wickham) writes:
>I would like someone to point out where the market is for 24-bit graphics.
>I only know one person who really uses 24-bit files and that is for 
>high end DTP where the 24-bit Mac is used in conjunction with $200,000
>drum-scanners, syquest cartriges by the dozzen, and about a million
>dollars worth of equipment which I don't even remember the names of.
>This Ham8 is going to give us near 24-bit color in high resolutions that
>can animate full screens and this is on a platform already geared for
>video.

We use 24 bit display all the time on our Mac.  We use it to display triple
labeled cells, 1 label per channel.  Without 24 bits, the display would look
dithered and pretty useless for scientific analysis.  24 bits isn't just to
have.  There are very good uses for it other than just video.

>What advantages does 24-bit have?  The disadvantages are: file size, 
>slow speed, and no animation... right?  C'mon, what does 24-bit have?

No one uses 24 bit images for real time animation, except maybe on an SGI
Crimson (which we use :).  Most 24 bit images are stills, so they can be
analyzed, and then transfered to some other medium (video tape, color printer,
etc.).  Size is pretty trivial to the "real" users.  The average user can't
afford the hundreds of megabytes necessary for storing 24bit images.  We have
over 10 gigabytes of storage here at the lab, but it's still not enough.  We
have 20 gigabytes in Exabyte storage, 4 rewriteable optical disk drives and
we probably will get another.  If you've got the money, 24 bits is the only
way to go.

>I hope there is Ham mode between Ham8 and Ham becase I don't think you
>really need 256,000 colors for many animations/applictions. 
>
>                                 NCW

Video is one that requires many colors.  Without more than 32 at a time,
you might as well be creating cartoons.  Modern scientific research is going
beyond the 256 gray scale, into 3D volumes which require 24 bit resolution.
Not everyone needs 24 bits, true, but if its there, the possible uses increase
beyond basic word processing.

-- 
*   Simon Lee              *   Microscopy and Imaging Resource          *
*   simon@ivem.ucsd.edu    *   Intermediate Voltage Electron Microscopy *
*   sulee@ucsd.edu         *   UC San Diego, Dept. of Neuroscience      *
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dleslie@koh-sun15.usc.edu (David Leslie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: America (Was Re:Perot)
Date: 15 Sep 1992 18:07:12 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: koh-sun15.usc.edu

In article <jbickers.0fmm@templar.actrix.gen.nz> jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers) writes:
>Quoted from <James_Hastings-Trew.0kbg@telepro.UUCP> by James_Hastings-Trew@telepro.UUCP (James Hastings-Trew):

-> well fed and generous. The oppressed people of the world do not dream of
-> escaping to Sweden...

>    Ha. Funnily enough, I just saw a movie called "Gorky Park" where
>    the people leaving Russia end up in Stockholm. Personally, I'd
>    take Sweden over the US any day of the week.

Actually, they just stopped in Stockholm on the way to New York. I hope
you enjoyed this american film! :)

-> That the world is a freer, more peaceful, and more well fed now than at any
-> other time in human history is due soley to the existance, and influence of
-> America. All other countries pale in comparison to the wealth, freedom and
-> greatness of this land.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Subject: Re: FLASH a4000 price
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:36:56 GMT

>	Safe Harbor, a rather large local and mail-order company is reporting
>a price of $2859 on the a4000.  The owner has been very very _very_ reliable
>in the past and has never spread false information before.  Thats about it.
>Again, I take this price seriously.  No indication of what it includes
>or anything.      

	Speaking of the A4000 and mail order companines, does Commodore allow
   you to buy the higher-end Amigas through mail order now?  I know for a 
   long time only the A500 seemed to be available through it.

							G.Greene


>Ryan Brooks
>2575brooksr@vms.csd.mu.edu
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Amiga No OS?
Distribution: world
Date: 6 Sep 92 16:25:15 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <Bu32Lo.1qq@starnine.com> mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:
>In article <torrie.714898303@Xenon.Stanford.EDU> torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) writes:
>>DonD@cup.portal.com (Don Robert DeCosta) writes:
>>
>>>You know, if you had spent money on an IBM or Mac in 1986 instead of an Amiga
>>>you couldn't even buy a stupid shoot em up game for your computer.
>>
>>>	"1 meg Required"                  (Can't cram a Meg into that 1986
>>>					   Fat Mac)
>>
>>  The Mac Plus was released in January 1986, and has no problems holding
>>4MB of memory.
>
>But he didn't say "MacPlus".  The poster correctly said "Fat Mac".
>There was no way to ghhet more than 512K out of those things.
>
>It was a frustrating time for Mac owners.  Those exasperated by their
>128K abortions bought the Fat Mac upgrade.  Then Apple brought out
>the Mac Plus (no upgrade from either of the 2 earlier machines) so
>everyone clamored to buy the latest & greatest (and we remember what
>those cutesy little things cost, eh?).

Not true.  There was an upgrade path to the Mac Plus from both the
128k and the Fat Mac.  It was a complete board swap.  A friend of
mine had it done to his machine.

>THEN... out came the SE and the MacII, and again, no way to upgrade
>the Mac Plus to either.  Talk about abandoning their customers!
>And the SE was such a lame improvement over the MacPlus!  Still,
>many plunked down ANOTHER couple thou...

The board swap was out for the SE, as the boards were slightly bigger.
The SE did have the slot which could be used for a video or processor
upgrade.

>>Evan.  (who now has to bow down to Redmond's direction every morning
>>because Bill is paying for my office).
>
>Then tell him to f**k off.
>
>>Embrace rationalism, reject superstition.           Break away from the past.
>
>Exactly.  Put the Mac in the BIG "Trashcan"... the one outside in the alley.


I would never buy a Mac, but they are great DTP machines.

And if you put a Mac on a manager's desk, it gives him a toy to play with.

--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root
From: dleslie@aludra.usc.edu (David Leslie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: WOC day 2 - the engineers
Date: 13 Sep 1992 04:34:21 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu


	So, I am very curious what Louis Eggebrecht (VP of engineering)
had to say. Dionne seemed to defer a lot of questions. Who got to hear
his speach, and what light did he shed. Basically, did he spill any 
beans on the DSP card, and the SCSI update?

/--------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Amiga  ///    |  U.S.C. Trojans  | Don't  | David Leslie           |
|       ///     |     Fight On!    | Tread  |                        |
|   \\\///      |        --        | On     | dleslie@usc.edu        |
|    \XX/ A1000 |     Go Kings!    | Me!    |                        |
\--------------------------------------------------------------------/
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: luyten@fwi.uva.nl (J.A.W.M. Luyten (I91))
Subject: Europe: A4000 ?? When ?? Pricing ??
Summary: A4000, Europe
Keywords: A4000, Europe
Organization: FWI, University of Amsterdam
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:29:47 GMT

Can anyone tell me when we can expect the A4000 in Europe ??
And at what prices (Germany/Holland) ?

	Hans

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: tony@ais.org (Tony Poole)
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falc
Organization: UMCC
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 23:23:13 GMT

jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:


>No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of another computer is
>a kludge.  It has nothing to do with the Intel CPU.

Heh.....funny you don't think that about one operating system grafted on top
of another as being a kludge.  Or, do you actually feel this way about
Windows?


-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tony Poole                       tony@umcc.ais.org * tony@irie.ais.org 
Traverse City, MI USA          tony@cherry1.trv.mi.us * tony@cherry1.UUCP
From: andrey@cco.caltech.edu (Andre T. Yew)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 at WOC
Date: 14 Sep 92 05:03:33 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena

copes@cs.curtin.edu.au (Simon Cope) writes:

>u894776@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (James McCoull) writes:
>>All one can hope is that CBM had their real engineers working on
>>the group of machines after this one.

>They are.  The top end machine they are working on had over 100x the bandwidth.

	Uh, let's not get carried away here.  I think the plan
Commodore has is 20x at most.  And do note that Eggebrecht
said it was just a goal.  Whether or not it can be met
remains to be seen.

	In fact in my second posting on WOC, assuming you
got your information from there, I failed to mention
that these are all just hardware goals.  Commodore
does not yet have working silicon, so I wouldn't be
so hasty to jump the gun on the specs.

	Jim Dionne also hinted that these plans are over a
five year period.

--Andre

-- 
Andre Yew                             andrey@tybalt.caltech.edu (131.215.48.100)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Subject: Re: Way to go Commodore! Yeah...right.
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:37:10 GMT

>AGA has ECS compatability built in.  That means developers can write programs
>to handle both chipsets without much of a hastle in much the way most PC games
>are written.
>
>I don't see why developers couldn't write code that used the AGA chips and
>still run on an ECS system.

	Why would they bother?  The only Amiga that has the AGA chipset
  is the A4000.  The Amiga that is truly going to sell well, the A600, still
  only has the ECS.  Where the heck is Commodores affordable AGA chipset
  machines??  Do they call the A4000 at over $3000 without a monitor 
  affordable?

							G.Greene


>
>*   Simon Lee              *   Microscopy and Imaging Resource          *
>*   simon@ivem.ucsd.edu    *   Intermediate Voltage Electron Microscopy *
>*   sulee@ucsd.edu         *   UC San Diego, Dept. of Neuroscience      *
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------