HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Computing Center, Mississippi State University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 20:33:02 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Frank Peters <fwp%CC.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Reflections on the matter of language change
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

In article <9204160841.AA16621@isis.sics.se> torkel%SICS.SE@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
 says:
>or the relation of "culture" to "language". When I say that it would be
>deplorable if the English language were to change into a system of
>grunts I mean only this, that it would be deplorable if the present
>English speaking culture changed in such a way that (among, necessarily,
>many other changes) the English language consisted of a system of grunts.

Okay.  I can agree with this.  Here then is my contention.  I think it
is interesting and, since it depends upon Natalie's contention that
there is nothing wrong with linguistic change, I think it makes
Natalie's statement interesting as well.

I think that most (if not all...I'm not a professional linguist and
will defer to others) language change is a symptom, rather than a
cause, of cultural change.

But when people say that a change in language is 'deplorable' their
first instinct is often to respond by attempting to deliberately stifle
such linguistic change.  Such efforts seem to me to be doomed to
failure because the language change is not a good or bad thing in
itself but is only following (possibly bad) things in the culture.

I think that by understanding that linguistic change has no moral
weight itself we realize that they only reflect changes somewhere else
in the culture....and that it is this change elsewhere which must be
turned back if you want to turn back its effects on language.

In other words, you second wording above identifies the true culprit in
the change while your first wording seems to accuse the change itself.

--
Frank Peters  -  UNIX Systems Programmer  -  Mississippi State University
Internet: fwp@CC.MsState.Edu  -  Phone: (601)325-7030  -  FAX: (601)325-8921
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 13:57:00 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Adam M Hartfield <AHARTFIE%DREW.DREW.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: clambake -> cajun music
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

>How 'bout Mary Chapin Carpenter avec Beausoleil own da Gra-meez, hein?
>Laissez les bon-temps rouler!
>
>//anne, who just *melted* when Dennis Quaid said "cher" in "The Big Easy"//


Ooh, sounds good to me!  I caught their Grammy performance and was
impressed. (Not onto a British ship, mind you)...

--Adam
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 20:01:09 -0500
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Nancy Harwood <harwood%TENET.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Jones
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list WORDS-L <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

>
> > it...I just thought my Welsh was showing.
>
>      Wait a minute, it still may be.  I am Scottish, Irish, and Welsh.
> Quick, what are the heredities of the rest of the BWP's.  Is BWP'ing
> an 'ethnic' thing?
>
> The Ronin

Could be...I'm also Scottish and Irish as well as Welsh.
ndh
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 21:40:51 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Karen Kay <LL23%NEMOMUS.BITNET%UGA.CC.UGA.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Names
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

Tushar,
    The only time I have seen my name in print (other than a reference
to me) was an ad for a stripper in London named Karen Kay!  If names
have magical properties, I guess I should change careers.

Karen
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 12:51:16 -0400
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Rita <rita%EFF.ORG@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Cambridge pre-clam slam Raiment
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

Ok, today I am wearing:

        Jeans, white sneakers, and a white nylon windbreaker with
"University of Lowell" written in light blue letters on the front over
my EFF T-shirt.  I have a white flowered headband in my hair.  I
am short, medium build, and have longish auburn hair.


You should be able to spot me with that description.

Looking forward to meeting you all tonite!!!!!!

Czarina
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Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 13:51:46 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         BGRISSOM%UKCC.UKY.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Bean counters
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

Forbes magazine gives this etymology for bean counters in this week's issue:
the people that marketing researcher A. C. Nielsen sent out in the 30s to
track the movement of Campbell's canned beans off grocery shelves.  Does this
sound right?

brad
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 18:55:32 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         QXN148%URIACC.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      RE: Guinea Pigs, Be On Alert

>Posted on 6 Apr 1992 at 18:52:23 by Uriacc Mailer (002033)
>
>RE: Guinea Pigs, Be On Alert
>
>Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 13:42:08 CDT
>Reply-To:     English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@UGA.BITNET>
>From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>
>
>> >Sayeth        "Natalie Maynor" <maynor@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>
>> >
>> >     I should be around and somewhat polite.
>> >
>> >> Subject:      Guinea Pigs, Be On Alert
>> >
>> >     I thought you were trying to warn Lisa of RI about something
>> >when I first saw this. :-).
>> Oh my!  Those are fighting words.  Jus' 'cause I'm Italian you tink I can't b
>> clean.  Well, in that case I'll have my cusin Antony beat the shit outta ya.
>
>I SAID NONE OF THE ABOVE!!
>   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
I know it wasn't you, it was the Ronin.  I wasn't insulted, I thought it was a
joke and that is why I wrote in greenhorn english.
Whatssa matta youze can't take a joke,
lisa
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 17:20:04 -0500
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Nancy Harwood <harwood%TENET.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Jones
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list WORDS-L <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

On Tue, 7 Apr 1992, Anne Harwell wrote:

>
> That's it! Two major corrections in one day! I'm gonna take my toys and go
> home.
>
> -abh
>
> not

My grandmother used to say "take my doll rags and go home"...she and her
friends didn't have real "store-bought" dolls, so they made theirs out
of rags.
ndh
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:29:13 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         GUBERT%UKCC.UKY.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Re: bonus points?
              7 Apr 1992 16:25:20 -0400 from <stevep@SNOWHITE.CIS.UOGUELPH.CA>

No, but you get one point for the posting.
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Date:         Fri, 17 Apr 1992 17:27:00 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Jim Wright 858-8188 <JCWRIGH%CLEMSON.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: My penmanship is messy too.

Evelyn, unfortunately for me, i stayed in the Persephone mode until 6
grade.  That made me one very unsociable, confused kid.  However, being
a pariah from elementary school on had the advantage of keeping me out
of serious trouble in junior high and high school, and now that i am
in college i have the luxury of having all of my brain cells and a true
understanding of what friends really are.  For the longest time, my only
friends were Don Quioxte, D'artagnan, Sir Galahad, and Robin Hood.  Now
in college, i have true friends who love me for me and not for what i
look like or act like or anything else like that.   Life is real good.
It seems to me that i truly went "Ad astra per aspera."
The Jimmer
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Date:         Sun, 12 Apr 1992 20:43:50 -0400
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Steve Portigal <stevep%SNOWHITE.CIS.UOGUELPH.CA@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: sad thought
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

>> Does anybody know of any studies showing what happens when parents
>> continue reading to children after the children know how to read?
>> I'm wondering if that might in some cases deter the child's reading
>> on his/her own.
>>    --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
>
>That is an interesting point...although my father continued to read to me
>for several years after I learned to read, I was already so hooked that
>I read constantly on my own.  The reading he did was part of our special
>time together in the evening, and it didn't discourage me from reading on
>my own the rest of the time (my mother used to say frequently that she'd
>like to see me just once without a book in my hand).  My younger

  I don't know anything about studies, but I do know that my mother and I
found certain books to read together.  Sometimes we would take turns
reading, or she would read to me.  This was long long after I could read on
my own, it was something that we shared.  I remember reading Berries Goodman,
The Prince of Central Park, wow, there were so many, I wish I could remember
which ones they were.  It certainly did not deter me from reading, as I
would sometimes stay up VERY late for my young age and read all sorts of
books.

  Steve
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Date:         Sun, 12 Apr 1992 13:22:39 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         CGOODSON%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Re: Bitnet or Internet Words-L?
              11 Apr 1992 11:45:14 CDT from <fwp@CC.MSSTATE.EDU>

>>Maybe there's really something to that SURANET maintenance they will be
>>doing on Monday 4/13....a computer tuneup
>
>Nope.  Internet uses a distributed address database (unlike the static
>tables used by bitnet).  This is usually more efficient and allows the
>internet ot have an order of magnitude more machines without problem.
....and on and on....
Wow, Frank... I'm blown away by your expertise....I'm glad there are people
like you who know how all this stuff works, so that folks like me can use it
even though we understand almost nothing about it....
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X-To:         belief-l@brownvm.brown.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 17:37:45 EST
Reply-To:     Evelyn <R3EJD%AKRONVM.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Comments:     Resent-From: Evelyn <R3EJD@AKRONVM>
Comments:     Originally-From: Tom Kreitzberg
              <tak%CAL-IRIS.JPL.NASA.GOV@brownvm.brown.edu>
From:         Evelyn <R3EJD%AKRONVM.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Let it Rock!, or, Woe to ye uninsured

words-l isn't the only list discussing Elvis.
Evelyn

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I've been asked by Lester to explain the beliefs of the Jacketed
Satinists, the splinter group which holds that Elvis's spirit
will return to Memphis with a shattering earthquake, thus ushering
in a millenium of true rock and roll.

I had the wrong corner of Tennessee when I mentioned Memphis. The
best candidate is around New Madrid, Mo., by the northwest corner
of Tennessee and about 100 miles north of Memphis. (You may remember
the hysteria caused a while back when some idjit predicted a major
quake in New Madrid due to high tides.)

The following information is from "Forecasting Damaging Earthquakes in
the Central and Eastern United States," S.P. Nishenko and G.A.
Bollinger, _Science_, March 1, 1991. They determined the Poisson
probability of a strong earthquake (magnitude >= 6.0) occurring between
1990 and the years 2000, 2020, 2040, and 2090, in New England, the New
Madrid area, and the Southeast.

Region		2000	2020	2040	2090
New England	.08	.21	.33	.55
Southeast	.11	.30	.45	.70
New Madrid	.13	.34	.50	.75
Combined	.29	.64	.81	.97

Furthermore, the probability that a quake stronger than 7.4 (current
U.S. record is 7.3) in the eastern U.S. in the next 100 years is .33.

The problem is the geological structure of the Eastern U.S. is such that,
for quakes of the same magnitude, structural damage may occur over areas
up to ten times as great as in California. Furthermore, it's been 97
years since a quake bigger than 6.0 occurred east of the Rockies, so no
one really knows how well the structures built since then will hold up.

	Tom

***********************************************************************
		"Well, since my body failed me,
		 I've found a new place to dwell.
		 A hundred miles due north of Memphis
		 In a seismogenical hell.
			Earthquakes are so likely, baby,
			Earthquakes are so likely,
			Earthquakes are, so likely
				You could die."
			  -the ghost of Elvis Presley, still the King
***********************************************************************
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Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 18:14:00 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "815 Stephen H. Karlson 753-6980"
 <TA0SHK1%NIU.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Another one down

The South Works of United States Steel closed today.
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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 09:44:47 +0200
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         torkel%SICS.SE@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Re: ODDS 'N' ENDS
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
              14 Apr 92 21:52:53 +0000. <9204150231.AA25942@sics.se>

Graham writes:

  >Natalie's meaning has been perfectly clear all along.  She concludes
  >no such thing.  She was saying that if human culture degenerated to
  >such a state, there would be nothing wrong in the language paralleling
  >it by reducing to a system of grunts.

  You're failing to take into account the course of the argument. I have
emphasized that it has not been suggested by me that there is anything
wrong with a system of grunts.
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 10:25:16 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Carol Goodson <CGOODSON%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Odder and Odder
              8 Apr 1992 21:26:26 -0400 from <stevep@SNOWHITE.CIS.UOGUELPH.CA>

It seems more awful that Arthur Ashe got AIDS because of how he got it...
through a blood transfusion during what WAS supposed to be a healing
procedure.     I admire him for being able to be so calm about it...I'm
afraid I might be suing... at least I'd be bitter.
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Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 23:23:00 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "The harder I work, the behinder I get"
 <TRAVEN%VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Oldies but goodies
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.EDU

>I am beginning to feel a little resentful about all these *men* expressing
>dismay over Karen's age (41)...

As the person who first commented on Karen's age, let me clarify.  I too am 41
(September 25, 1950 ... just in case you're contemplating a gift or card).  I
have heard the List Angel's voice on my answering machine.  To my ear, she
sounds less aged than I do.  That's all I meant.

Sheesh...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
neal	traven@pittvms			Bitnet		412-624-0097 (office)
	traven@vms.cis.pitt.edu  	Internet	412-624-0110 (fax)
			"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America
			 had better learn baseball."	-- Jacques Barzun
From: CHRISS%CWU.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU (Lobstrosities Unite)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: CALLING ALL STUDENTS OF RUSSIAN
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:57:00 GMT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
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X-VMS-To: IN%"WORDS-L@UGA.BITNET"

Whoops!  I guess I should have included at least a modicom of smileys or
something in this post, along with reading what I wrote (I was on the phone at
the same time and didn't proof what I'd read.)

Please be kind to me, Graham. I hope for my sake that you read this before you
respond to the original.

Or maybe not.  Being flamed by a Scottish Brit is so exhilarating

>Gosh, Graham. I didn't realize we all had to speak and use the same terminology
>as do you.  Around here, Turing Machine is understood as any device that runs
>(notice I didn't say, "can run") the Turing Test.  That's how it was taught to
>me (in a basic sort of way).

In the above paragraph, "run" should read "pass", i.e. any device than passes
the Turing Test.


>What was Turing most noted for? I think for his statement (and subsequent
>proof, at least in his mind) that a computer, given the right environment, etc,
>could be passed off as a person.  Or, more correctly, that a subject could not
>guess, by the responses received, whether the responder was human or computer.

>On what device did he initially run these tests?  On a Turing Machine.

Boy.  What I meant was something like "He ran these tests on a machine of his
own design which was subsequently called a Turing Machine."
Although that doesn't clear it up at all.  How about "He tested his machine on
people using a test of his own design."

He designed a machine that could fool people if they followed the rules layed
out in his test. How's that.

>Can I suggest, Graham, that if you feel the need to show off your Public School
>Education, you try not to be such a weenie about it.

No smiley here.  It was funny to begin with.



Okay, this is in the way of clafification and is NOT intended as an apology.
Clarification doesn't count as apology.  Now, I'm going to go read an article
on Turing Machines to make sure I know at least some of what I'm talking about.

Chris
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 14:32:00 PST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Lobstrosities Unite <CHRISS%CWU.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Spilt friends

>In asking my friends who are going to graduate they are spilt,...

Just as long as you're not crying over them.

Chris
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 18:46:00 GMT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         WERTSJ <WERTSJ%DIALOG%MCIMAIL.COM@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      re: Jones

>> I'll go for the Danish tack (get a good start). But that couldn't be why
>> we can't make it to bwp.

>Oh yes it could!  I wish I had my sociolinguistics textbook (Wardhaugh) at
>home right now so that I could quote an interesting passage...about
>Danes and silence.
>   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)

That's funny...silence has never been a problem in my family.  Now, if
you said "Danes and extraordinary verbal skills", I might believe it!

Jill

__________________________________________________

Jill Werts                 (wertsj%dialog@mci.com)
Dialog Information Services
   (...uh-oh, it's another librarian!)
__________________________________________________
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Original_To:  BITNET%"WORDS-L@UGA.BITNET"
Original_cc:  WHITERJ
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 18:18:00 MDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         The Ronin <WHITERJ%MSCD.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Interdead

Sigheth       "Natalie Maynor" <maynor@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>

>                                   I've given up on seeing it fixed
> until the head guru returns to UGA next Monday.

     Of course none of this would happen if you left Bernard on a long
enough leash.  On the other hand, more systems types might keep swords
if Bernard had a longer leash.  Life is full of trade-offs.

The Ronin
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 21:53:00 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Adam M Hartfield <AHARTFIE%DREW.DREW.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: CALLING ALL STUDENTS OF RUSSIAN
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

>I already spoke and wrote well because I had grown up in a home where
>that was expected.  However, the intensive study of grammar in Latin
>gave me a better understanding of what I had learned by example.

>Even though you're doing something more of less automatically, I think it
>helps to recognize and understand the patterns involved.
>ndh

This is exactly what I wanted to say.  Thanks, Nancy, for thinking
the same thing and being able to say it more clearly than myself.

--Adam
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 18:13:00 GMT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         WERTSJ <WERTSJ%DIALOG%MCIMAIL.COM@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      re: food

>For some reason, Jill, the librarians I know are usually more involved with
>drinking than eating.... I knew I was in the right profession the first time
>I went to a conference....  hope I haven't scandalized the other librarians
>on the list!

None of the librarians I hang out with would be at all scandalized (in
fact, I've never thought of that term in connection with them).  The
connection of food and librarians became apparent to me first at
library school.  Every function was accompanied by food.  The library
where I used to be a reference librarian always had food in the
librarians' office.  Of course, we couldn't very well drink our lunch
and then go back on the reference desk (wait a minute!...come to
think of it...that might have made for some very creative, not to
mention fun, solutions to reference problems).

Library school was also accompanied by happy hours (at least for
my class - I'm told the class before mine was much more of a
"stick-in-the-mud" group), so I think your point about drinking
is correct.   The drinking, tho, was mostly off campus, and away
from the library.  The food was intimately connected to work.
Both were fun.

BTW, I agree, I'm in the right profession, too!

(an aside:  when I get WORDS-L messages, the only origin shown is
that of the list, so I sometimes don't know who I'm "talking" to -
so, I'm sorry if I can't use names)

Jill


**************************************************
Jill Werts                 (wertsj%dialog@mci.com)
Dialog Information Services
   (...uh-oh, it's another librarian!)
**************************************************
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