From: billms@eecs.umich.edu (William Mangione-Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Michigan vs. Notre Dame
Date: 10 Sep 92 20:00:39 GMT
	<BILLMS.92Sep10110911@z.eecs.umich.edu>
	<1685EB34C.JHARTLEY@cmsa.gmr.com>
Organization: University of Michigan

In article <1685EB34C.JHARTLEY@cmsa.gmr.com> JHARTLEY@cmsa.gmr.com writes:

   In article <BILLMS.92Sep10110911@z.eecs.umich.edu>
   billms@eecs.umich.edu (William Mangione-Smith) writes:
   >No bitching, just the facts: Because of his stats last year, if Elvis were at
   >ND he would be considered the clear, rock solid, #1 favorite for the Heisman.

   Bill, I really wish you'd refrain from these "what if" questions.  What if
   ND didn't have Ismael?  What if UM had a game under its belt?  You may not
   have posted these questions, but other generic UM posters have (including
   the coach, Gary Moeller).

Tell me J, do you always lump people together based upon some loose
affiliation?  Have you ever known a dummy who happened to be black?  Did that
convince you that all black people are stupid?  Are all Jews tight wads? 

I happen to have a few opinions, and from time to time I state them here.
You seem to be completely incapable of following simple arguments based upon
my opinions.  I might (see, that word "might" is another flag for a
hypothetical argument, I guess I'm addicted) feel, based upon some of your
recent posts, that you probably have a retarded ability to reason and follow
simple arguments.  Now, does that make it all right for me to assume that
everybody from ND is stupid, just because you seem to be acting stupid here?

   The "fact" if you want to know it is, Grbac would not have thrown that many
   passes in the ND scheme.  They only threw that much in the 91 ND-UM game

J, I really wish you wouldn't use these "if" scenerios.  Just restrict
yourself to the "fact": repeating the scores of previous games.  By your
arguments thats all that is important, the rest is meaningless whining.  

   because they fell behind 0-17.  If Grbac were at ND now, it is not even clear
   that he would start, now is it?  Remember Montana?  He didn't look that great
   at ND - in fact much of his heroics were due to his throwing 1st half
   inter-

Example one: I said because of his stats.  That proposes Grbac at ND with
last years stats in hand.  Thats a hypothetical argument.  You ignored that
one, and proposed another: what would his stats be...  Now did you ignore the
original question because you couldn't follow the complex nature of the
sentence, or because you percieved a slam against your school?

   ceptions.  If you mean by your what-if game that ND gets preferences for the
   Heisman, perhaps it might surprise you to know that the last ND Heisman
   winning quarterback was . . . . . John Huarte (1964).  Before that, Paul
   Hornung (1956).  And recall the man who you Michigan crybabies claimed
   single-handedly beat you two years in a row, the Rocket?  Well he didn't
   win the Heisman.  He lost out to a quarterback from BYU.  I'll bet if
   Grbac went to BYU, he'd be a lock for the Heisman, eh!

   So, Bill, a little suggestion.  Why not quit your fantasy games and consult
   books filled with facts.  You may just stumble across something to shift
   your mind toward the rational end of the spectrum.         Nah.


J, you don't seem to understand whats going on here.  Some people like to
watch college football because they enjoy it.  Most of those have allegiances
to certain teams, but the converse isn't necessarily true.

When I'm interested in something, I try to understand it.  I'm an inquisative
person by nature, and my education only increased this tendancy.  I try to
understand why certain teams win, and try to find the greater truth behind
the old question: which team is better.  This pops up all over the place, and
its just as interesting when miami and fsu get going in a great game and the
apparently lesser team wins, as when my team is involved.

You prefer to turn off your mind and repeat the score.  The score is all that
matters, not stats or injuries, or freak plays, or emotion, or anything else.
Hey, thats probably a winning strategy all in all.  ND has won more than its
share througout history, and recently as well.  When you do that its hard to
tell if you are stupid or just boring, but then I guess it doesn't really
matter that much.

Bill
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	Bill Mangione-Smith
	billms@eecs.umich.edu