From: aaron@space.ualberta.ca (Aaron Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Words
Reply-To: aaron@space.ualberta.ca
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:05:40 GMT

Liralen Li (li@Data-IO.COM) wrote:
[Liralen writes lots of stuff, including]

: "Someone that uses Oriental for Asian, Negro for African, or Indian for
: Native American creates, for me, an image of someone that is ignorant of
: the basis of the language that they use.  I don't usually take offense at
: it, but for someone who is a writer I usually point out that there are
: completely different *connotative* clouds about the different words.  Take
: Oriental vrs Asian.  Oriental usually connotes the 'mysterious Orient'
: where there are shy, veiled women, the exotic, the unknown and inscrutible
: males.  It is a romantic and a very inaccurate image of an Asian
: American.  Asian is fairly straightforward, usually connoting simply
: someone of Asian heritage.  Perhaps, as StM said, the meanings will change
: again... but I'm writing for an audience that lives Now and Here and I'll
: take the meanings that are more agreed upon.  If I *want* to create the
: Oriental image, I'll know what I'm invoking when I use it."

Alfvaen says, "I'm not Oriental, or Asian, or even Chinese, but I'll have to
defend my use of the first term.  First off, I don't use Asian because Asian is
too nonspecific.  What about people from India?  Or the Philippines?  Or from
Israel, for that matter?  Or Russia?  I could use the term, but only if I
included all of the above--and at the University of Alberta, for instance,
all groups are prominent--Orientals more than most, but the number of East
Indians(used instead of mere 'Indian' to avoid confusion with Natives or First
Peoples--I can defend that term too, if you want)and Arabs is non-negligible.

"I use Oriental as a term of racial description.  (Would you prefer I used
Mongoloid?  That doesn't have the 'mysterious' connotations...but, IMHO, it has
worse ones.  Or slant-eyes?  At least as good as nigger...)  It is true that
the Oriental race originated in Asia, so it might be considered _the_ Asian
race, but Asian is still too vague.

"I, for one, also don't perceive the 'mysterious' connotations of Oriental as
much.  And, while >most< of the Orientals I see are probably Chinese, there are
also sizable Vietnamese and Korean minorities, and even a few Japanese.  I'm
not yet able to distinguish the various nationalities, although I've been told
that it's possible, so I lump them together as Orientals.

"But I realize that one thing that we can't control, especially on the Net, is
how other people read our words.  Everyone's posts should come with glossaries,
assuming we would even realize what terms everyone would misinterpret.  So that
is my definition of Oriental."

: "Anyway..." a soapbox pops up from under her feet.  Liralen stomps on it,
: and it goes away.  "I guess I agree with Rowan about the general thought
: that 'words are important to choose carefully'.  And I wanted to say to
: kitten that I'm sorry that Sam saw you the way that he did.  Not really
: sorry in 'I'm to blame' sorry, but just feeling some sorrow for his
: blindness and your resultant hurt."
: 
: "A hug?"

Alfvaen proffers kitten a hug too.  "I mean, what the heck...why not..."

--
---Alfvaen(Canadian SF Quasi-Activist)
"If your breasts are too big, you will fall over.  Unless you wear a rucksack."
   --Ivor Cutler
Current Album--Figgy Duff
Current Read--Robert A. Heinlein:Job: A Comedy of Justice
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