HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bjones@denitqm.uswest.com (Brent Jones)
Subject: Re: Literary SF
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written
Organization: U S WEST Information Technologies
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:38:54 GMT

Vladimir Nabokov wrote at least two science fiction short stories-"Lance"
and "Time and Ebb." These are in his collection _Nabokov's Dozen_.

"Lance" is especially good--sort of an anti-science-fiction story in
which he rails on the conventions and cliches of the genre in the 50's
and twists them around in his own inimitable way.

It don't get more "literary" than Nabokov.
--
Brent Jones, Lead Tech. Editor, U S WEST IT, bjones@denitqm.uswest.com
"of beautiful weeds that cannot hide from the farmer and helplessly have 
to watch the shadow of his simian stoop leave mangled flowers in its wake, 
as the monstrous darkness approaches."--V. Nabokov _Signs and Symbols_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton)
Subject: Re: Gibson, electronic books
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:49:28 GMT

In article <Bz8K50.8DG@news.cso.uiuc.edu> skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian) writes:
>	I expected Gibson (who seems to have at least some computer sense)
>	to realize what utter foolishness this whole AGRIPPA thing is.

Yes, what an utter fool he is.   I've been reading multiple articles about
this folly in just about every major publication, and in some depth on
every online service.   Clearly a failed project -- what foolishness.  :-)
-- 
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366
From: jdnicoll@prism.ccs.uwo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)
Subject: Re: Civil War Alternate Histories
Organization: University of Western Ontario, London
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 00:09:07 GMT

In article <JMC.92Dec18104537@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
>I think the posters on the question of continued slavery underestimate the
>importance of moral issues.  Marxism made this fashionable, and
>many people still consider completely ignoring the effects of people's
>ideas of morality on their policy as a sign of sophistication.

	How remarkable that the  morals of  slave-owners coincidentally
served to support the slave-owners' economic behavior.

						James Nicoll

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: msmith@beta.tricity.wsu.edu (Dragon Lord)
Subject: Re: Green: Hawk & Fisher
Organization: Washington State University Tri-Cities, Richland
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 08:01:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.193248.9395@cs.unca.edu> mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner) writes:
>
>I've read 2 of Simon Green's Hawk & Fisher novels, and they're
>great -- as a whodunnit detective fantasy escapism and a fun
>read. Lots of voilence, a very fast paced plot, weird creatures,
>and even a social commentary now and then.
>
>These were 5 and 6, the only ones on the shelves. What were the
>first four called?
>
You wanted them, you got them.. *drum roll*
Uh, let me find them... Oh, yah right, under the desk, no room on the
shelf.

1. Hawk and Fisher
2. Winner Takes All
3. The God Killer
4. Wolf in the Fold
5. Guard Against Dishonor
6. The Bones of Haven

Also recomended and some what of a prequel to (if, after missing the
hints about it in the Hawk and Fisher stuff talk to me later) Hawk and
Fisher.

Blue Moon Rising

Have fun.
From: curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Anarchy in S.F.
Date: 20 Dec 92 18:05:26 GMT
Organization: CS Dept. Snakepit - Do Not Feed.
NNTP-Posting-Host: cobra.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec20.022910.4593@ninja.zso.dec.com> rcrowley@donne.zso.dec.com (Rebecca Crowley) writes:
>robert j kolker (rjk@world.std.com) wrote:
>: I can think of two SF novels that have anarchy or anarchic societies as a
>: theme and context. They are:
>
>Vernor Vinge's Realtime stories, esp. the short story "The Ungoverned"
>and, to a lesser degree, _Marooned in Realtime_.

You probably want to distinguish anarchy and libertarianism here;
the former is not sufficiently organized to be a serious fictional
irritant.  Whereas if I see another libertarian utopia I think
I shall do, well, whatever gentlemen do when they get a queasy
feeling in their stylish pots.

c
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jbeason@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Joseph E. Beason)
Subject: Last of the Renshai (?)
Organization: UIUC Department of Psychology
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:08:07 GMT

Not sure if I;m getting the title right, but I recently saw two Very Thick
Books About Magic (VTBAM), and since I'd like some winter reading, has
anyone any opinions? The first is titled something like Last of the Renshai,
the second focuses on the wizards involved in the first book.  First book
back cover erfered to warrior race which is almost (sole survivor) destroyed
by a coalition of enemies.  Second about search for a replacement for one
of four wizards that keep up some cosmic balance or something.

Questions: is it more about warriors or magic, and are women interesting (like
Jordan) or icky (like Tolkein, Heinlin, Asimov, etc, etc).

Oops, maybe I should duck over that last comment.  

Joe

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: hillyard@msc.cornell.edu
Subject: Re: The Wheel of Time: Prophecies and Portents
Originator: hillyard@tiger.msc.cornell.edu
Reply-To: hillyard@msc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 08:59:56 GMT

From article <1992Dec10.193801.9145@netcom.com>, by dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig):
> hillyard@msc.cornell.edu:

> 
>>Rand
>>	Three woman standing over a funeral bier with him on it

> And the three
> women standing over the bier, like his being Tigraine's son, extends
> the connection between Rand and the earlier-cycle Arthur.

Would you mind elaborating on this.

SEH
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: srscnslt@telesciences.com (SRS Consultant)
Subject: Re: Friedman opinions??
Organization: TeleSciences CO Systems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:56:36 GMT

In article <kf=Fr1O00iV0I6AWdl@andrew.cmu.edu> Michael P Collins <mc7f+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.written: 13-Dec-92 Friedman opinions??
>by w95_cook@wums.wustl.edu 
>>  
>> I've just seen there's a new novel out - _Black Sun Rising_,
>> or something like that.  Opinions, anyone??
>>  
>
>IMNSHO, Friedman's writing is workmanlike, but her ideas are Really,
>Really Neato, if sometimes not well thought out.  I kinda think of
>Friedman as a fun author, but not one I'm going to have deep literary
>discussions about.
>


	I just (yesterday!) finished reading this one.  I actually found it
	quite good.  The writing was utterly unobtrusive - I can't stand it
	when an author tries so hard to get a point/style/emotion/whatever
	across that you become "aware" that you're reading a book.

	I especially found it refreshing to find a 'party' story where the
	party contained both a 'lawful good' and a 'chaotic evil'. 8)


-- 
Mitch Gorman		srscnslt@telesciences.com	emrys@cellar.org
"You can tell he's doing well by the look in inhuman eyes,
	Better not compromise -
		It won't be easy!"
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Eco-Catastrophe Novel Request
Date: 17 Dec 1992 18:30:54 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: gondolin.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Dec17.180151.24552@netcom.com> rvf@netcom.com  
(Richard Frueh) writes:
> bwebster@pages.com (Bruce F. Webster)  writes :
>  
> Any number of novels by John Wyndham, including _The Burning World_  
and
> _The
> Drowned World_.
>  

You are confusing John Wyndham and J.G. Ballard. While they are
both good, they are not very similar.  But, yes, Ballard's 
novels such as The Drowned World are very good, as are Wyndham's,
such as The Day of the Triffids and The Trouble with Lichen.

--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
From: jfl@panix.com (Jeff Lipton)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Auto-buy lists
Keywords: tigana
Date: 21 Dec 92 02:00:31 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC


Jack Vance
Charles DeLint
Dan Simmons
Robert Anton Williams
Robert Shea
Richard Monaco (What ever happened to him?)
Robert Holdstock

Sam Delaney

 - Jeff


-- 
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jeffrey F. Lipton, M.D. (jfl@panix.com) |   (212)-982-1219 (home)          |
| 353 E. 17th, #19-E  NY, NY 10003        | "Disobedience was Man's First    |
+------------------------------------------------ Virtue" (Oscar Wilde) -----+
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: lairdb@crash.cts.com (Laird P. Broadfield)
Subject: Re: Is The _wing Commander_ Book For Real?
Organization: "Well, a head on top, an arm on each side, two legs...."
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:39:12 GMT

In <1992Dec10.193107.7572@news.uiowa.edu> durrell@pinball.arcade.uiowa.edu (Bryant Durrell) writes:
>In article <724009494.F00001@tdkt.kksys.com> Joel.Rosenberg@f341.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Joel Rosenberg) writes:
>>Look.  It goes like this:  for most people, writing doesn't pay 
>>a whole lot.  There are few writers who can support themselves 
>>solely by writing, and even fewer who can support themselves 
>>solely by writing that which they feel like writing at the given 
>>moment.  Writing video game novels may, you feel, be a waste of 
>>Misty's talent -- I, for one, thought George Effinger could have 
>>better spent his time than writing Zork: The Novel -- but the 
>>rent's gotta be paid.

>Mercedes Lackey is welcome to use her talent any way she wants, as
>far as I'm concerned.  However, unless she's putting as much 
>energy into Bard's Tale and Wing Commander books as she puts into
>a Valdemar book, she's not producing product of the same quality.
>There's gotta be a certain aspect of consumerism in writing; I
>understand that and I know why.  However, writers shouldn't be
>surprised if readers react poorly.  If a company that has a rep
>for good products starts making drek, people will start bitching.
>Consumerism is consumerism.

Exactly.  I went ahead and left the whole quote in because it's 
important to recognize the facts: if the value is in the product,
then people will purchase it.  If the name comes to have intrinsic 
value, it is *because* the writing has had value, and people recognize
the name as a signpost.  *However,* if the name is then used solely
for it's value, and associated with dreck, the name will lose it's
intrinsic value and come to have a *negative* intrinsic value (and
from the discussions I've seen, that may have already happened.)

Any student of business history can point at many examples of a 
respected firm doing decades, even centuries of damage to it's
reputation in years, or months, or even a single product.  Ponder
this cliche:

 "Easy come, easy go."
 [annoyed] "It didn't COME that easy."



-- 
Laird P. Broadfield     lairdb@crash.cts.com    ...{ucsd, nosc}!crash!lairdb
Hi!  I'm a shareware signature!  Send $5 if you use me, send $10 for manual!
From: wrr3118@tamsun.tamu.edu (Rick Russell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Mass minds (was: Greg Bear Blood Music)
Date: 14 Dec 1992 09:50:38 -0600
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: tamsun.tamu.edu

In article <1992Dec12.175003.5414@galileo.physics.arizona.edu> lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat) writes:
>Mass minds by telelpathy seem to come in two flavors.  First there is
>the form where, since this improves communication, it is a good thing.

>Second is where this is a living hell, as we would then get to "hear"
>all the little nasty impulses of everybody, learn exactly what they
>think of us, have no privacy, etc.  It seems to me that this would be
>closer to the truth.

If I may beat the Theodore Sturgeon drum again...

Your 'second' flavor seems to apply normal human culture to a culture
with telepathy. For example, you suggest that having 'no privacy' is a
bad thing, but to a telepath privacy would be as meaningless as as
fear of fire is to us.

Likewise, the other potentially annoying social aspects of telepathy
would be non-sequiturs to a telepathic society. Nasty impulses?
Everybody would have them, and absolutely everybody would know about
them, and any attempt to chastise someone over them would be like
chastising everyone.
-- 
#      Rick Russell | TAMU Meteorology | wrr3118@tamsun.tamu.edu       # 
#     "I am Elfy of Atlantis." "I am Jo-Jo of Munchkinland."           #
#     "We are Elfy and Jo-Jo!"                                         #
From: mab@buphy.bu.edu (Michael Burstein)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Mike the computer (was Re: Rama Reveiled by A.C. Clarke)
Date: 10 Dec 92 14:05:03 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <07DEC92.20450765.0032@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> O2NY@UNB.CA (O2NY000) writes:
>latest series. Heilein died and I was reading 'The Cat who walks
>through walls [....]

>to be released already! I already have to deal with not knowing
>what happened to Mike the computer. Where will it all end?

If you want to know what happened to Mike the computer, read Heinlein's
last novel, "To Sail Beyond the Sunset." If you don't want to read it,
then let me (or someone) know and I'll post or e-mail the info to you.


-- 
Michael A. Burstein
Physics Department, Boston University         mab@buphy.bu.edu
590 Commonwealth Ave.                         (617) 353-9437 (o)
Boston, MA 02215                              (617) 735-9433 (h)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: bwebster@pages.com (Bruce F. Webster)
Subject: Re: QX and on green! (was Re: LENSMAN?)
Reply-To: bwebster@pages.com
Organization: Banzai Research Institute
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:08:27 GMT

In article <1gnpkjINNqhd@agate.berkeley.edu> cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()  
writes:
> In article <1992Dec16.035953.5684@pages.com> bwebster@pages.com writes:
> >
> >My favorite bit of Smithese is the useful "never-to-be-sufficiently-damned",  
> >which I have used myself on any number of occasions (usually in reference to  
> >cars and operating systems). 
> >
> And "quadruply-and-sulfurously-qualified."  ('Qualified' meaning 'modified
> with adjectives.')
> 
> 
> Dorothy J. Heydt
> UC Berkeley
> cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu
> 
> (I _gotta_ go dig out those books...)
> 

Well, I did. Started into _First Lensman_ (no copy of _Triplanetary_, as  
noted), and it took me right back to the late 60's, when I first read the  
stuff. Lots o' fun....   ..bruce..

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce F. Webster             |  I grow old...I grow old...
CTO, Pages Software Inc      |  dBASE II and Wordstar are no longer sold.
bwebster@pages.com           |                         -- Jeff Duntemann
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: hgarcia@sw.stratus.com (Henry Garcia)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Auto-buy lists
Date: 18 Dec 1992 15:53:30 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: boynton.sw.stratus.com
Keywords: tigana

In article <1992Dec18.015418.23388@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>, colin@callisto.pas.rochester.edu (Colin Roald) writes:
> swf@tools3teradata.com (Stan Friesen) writes:
> >Yes.  Kay is now on my (very short) auto-buy list.
> >[Along with David Brin].
> 
> I'm suddenly curious--what authors are on other people's "auto-buy" lists?
> Meaning that if you see one of their books and you don't have yet and the 
> money is in your pocket, you buy it--no further questions asked.
> 



Katherine Kurtz
Anne McCafrey (sp?)
Ben Bova


Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: emstewar@unix.amherst.edu (EMILY MAUREEN STEWART)
Subject: Re: good book for Christmas present
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 01:21:27 GMT

I really enjoyed _Dragon's Egg_ and its sequel _Starquake_ by Robert Forward.
(The first book _is_ SF; has nothing to do with real live dragons.)  _Dragon's
Egg_ has a good, strong, plot and believeable and very interesting science to
back it up (it deals with life on a neutron star and introduces lots of weird
physics and relativity ideas).  The character development is a tiny bit 
weaker than it could be but they are still very good books.  Merry Christmas!

Emily Stewart
emstewart@amherst.edu
Reality is for people who lack imagination.
From: w95_cook@wums.wustl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Friedman opinions??
Date: 13 DEC 92 15:13:58 GMT
Organization: MIT PLASMA FUSION CENTER
NNTP-Posting-Host: msnews.wustl.edu

I'd be interested to hear other's opinion of C.S.Friedman.

I found _In Conquest Born_ to be a little boring (maybe
just too drawn out), but I really liked _The Madness Season_.

I've just seen there's a new novel out - _Black Sun Rising_,
or something like that.  Opinions, anyone??


JC



_______________________________________________________________

Jim Cook
W95_COOK@wums.wustl.edu

_______________________________________________________________

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows)
Subject: Re: Anyone like to comment on Garden of Rama?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 07:18:34 GMT


IMHO, each book was better than the previous.  GARDEN OF RAMA was bet-
ter than RAMA II was better than RENDEZVOUS WITH RAMA.  They were
all three great books; I just enjoyed the latter two better.

The bit about humanity perverting the Garden of Eden...yes, that's
just what I thought.  Even the title points to this.  And I find
it interesting that not all the perversion was going on on the ship...
some went on previous to the debarkment, apparently.  Gee, I wonder
why all those people could be getting sick, and the illness is so much
like a biological weapon disease of a few decades back?  And I wonder
why so many of the colonists haven't yet made the connection?

I will be on the edge of my proverbial seat until this next one comes
out...I hope it will be worth the wait.  I mean, how can they keep it
up?  I can't comprehend what kind of alien would have the technology to
do all that stuff, or even how they think.  What do they intend to do 
with the humans?  What will they do TO the humans, when they find out
what the human colonists have been up to?  What do they LOOK like?
I sure can't wait to find out...

--
Chris Meadows  | Editor of Robotech: The Misfold; author of other               
CHM173S@SMSVMA | Robotech/Rifts stories; DEFENDER of PALLADIUM BOOKS!!!         
CHM173S@VMA.SMSU.EDU   | NOTE: I will be on vacation 12/17 to 1/10; if          
CMEADOWS@NYX.CS.DU.EDU | important, please email; posts tend to expire.
From: hairy@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Phil Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Silverberg's "Face of the Waters" 
Distribution: world
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 13:28:42 GMT
Organization: Lethargy Inc.


In article <1gqdjiINN750@transfer.stratus.com> 
jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:

  > Silverberg is a very good writer, and Face of the Waters was a
  > good book, though not, I think, a great one. I think it what kept
  > it from being great was the last 30 or so pages, which was a bit
  > of a let down. It felt like Silverberg had this great idea for
  > setting, plot, and characters, but couldn't figure out a good way
  > to end it all.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say it was even a good book, 
though it's certainly a book with some good writing. Unfortunately, 
the ending just doesn't have any redeeming features; he might as well 
have written "And they all found paradise and lived happily ever 
after."

Given that most of the book was so much better, I wonder whether he 
might have visualised a great finish that just didn't translate to 
paper in the end.

 ----------------------------------------------
 Phil Anderson  ***  hairy@sloth.equinox.gen.nz
 ----------------------------------------------
       "No-one is equal to anyone else!"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: write@eff.org (Glen Cox)
Subject: New Ace SF Specials (was Re: Literary SF)
Originator: write@eff.org
Keywords: Literary SF
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 17:34:51 GMT

>|You know, I think that was the first of the New Ace Science Fiction
>|Specials that I read.  I kinda liked it.
>
>Whatever happened to them Ace Specials, anyhow?  Did they just sort of
>disappear, after Terry Carr passed away?  I can only think of three in the
>"New" series: _The Wild Shore_, the unmentionable above, _Neuromancer_, and
>_Green Eyes_; and I haven't seen a new one in a while.

The books that made up the new series were:

   Kim Stanley Robinson, THE WILD SHORE
   Lucius Shepard, GREEN EYES
   William Gibson, NEUROMANCER
   Howard Waldrop, THEM BONES
   Michael Swanwick, IN THE DRIFT
   Sholtz and Harcourt, PALIMPSESTS

After Terry died, a few that he had bought and had been working on were
released:

   Jack McDevitt, THE HERCULES TEXT
   Claudia O'Keefe, (Something about Ice)
   Loren McGregor, THE NET
   Michael Kandel, STRANGE INVASIONS

These books were edited by Damon Knight, I believe.

glen

-- 
/== Glen E. Cox =============================================================\
|  write@eff.org  |  CURRENTLY SEEKING: Rex Stout, Three at Wolfe's Door      |
|  GEnie: G.COX3  |                     P.G. Wodehouse, My Man Jeeves         |
| DELPHI: MRWRITE |                     Ed McBain, Give the Boys a Great...   |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: pally@mikejag.wimsey.bc.ca (Pally Hoffstein)
Subject: Re: Literary SF
Organization: mikejag (mike) is a private system in Vancouver, BC, Canada
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 08:15:49 GMT
Keywords: Literary SF

In article <guay.724099614@sfu.ca> guay@fraser.sfu.ca (Tim Guay) writes:
>Hi; 
>
>Can anyone recommend any literary SF books/authors? IE: stuff that isn't     
>mainstream commercial SF.

I think "A Canticle For Leibowitz" by Walter M. Miller Jr. is one of the
finest SF novels and is maybe the best on a literary level. I often recommend
it; to SF readers and to readers of classic/literary fiction alike.

Pally Hoffstein
Vancouver, Canada
-- 
Television permits many millions     |   I threw bitter tears at the ocean, 
of people to share a joke and to     |   But all that came back was the tide.
still be lonely. - T.S. Eliot        | 		- Sarah McLachlan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner)
Subject: Green: Hawk & Fisher
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 19:32:48 GMT


I've read 2 of Simon Green's Hawk & Fisher novels, and they're
great -- as a whodunnit detective fantasy escapism and a fun
read. Lots of voilence, a very fast paced plot, weird creatures,
and even a social commentary now and then.

These were 5 and 6, the only ones on the shelves. What were the
first four called?

Scott