HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rana@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Nabeel Ahmad Rana)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: LOOKING FOR AHMADI STUDENTS!
Date: 7 Oct 1992 10:50:55 -0700
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu
Summary: I am looking for Ahmadi Students.



Dear Friends:

I am looking for any Ahmadi Students or Professionals on the net. If you 
are an Ahmadi and have access to the the net then please respond to this 
posting by sending email to the following address. Include information 
about your self and indicate the Jamaat you belong to.

Sincerely,
Nabeel Ahmad Rana
Boulder Colorado.
email: rana@rintintin.colorado.edu



	LOVE FOR ALL
	HATRED FOR NONE.
From: usenet@udel.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Rama info?
Date: 11 Oct 1992 23:10:45 -0700
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

Does anybody out there in netland know of a Buddhist teacher
who claims to be enlightened named Dr. Frederick Lenz (aka "Rama")?

He spends some of his time near the state university of NY.

Thanks,

-Mark (jones@udel.edu)              God is a comic playing to an
                                    audience that's afraid to laugh
From: travers@iwarp.intel.com (Jim Travers)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Soul
Date: 11 Oct 1992 23:09:24 -0700
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

In article <1b219jINNf1o@sandman.caltech.edu> emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp) writes:
>travers@iWarp.intel.com (Jim Travers) writes:
>
>>>It is true that for convenience sake there are references to I, you, they,
>>>it etc..  These are emptiness; they are form; as is everything else we may
>>>assert absolutely. 
>
>Druta replies:
>
>>Convenient indeed. And what do you mean by convenient anyways? Convenient for
>>you of course. No question of convenience for a nothing. Every word you have
>>written demonstrates that you and I and he and she are distinct, conscious,
>>individual entities... 
>
>He's just talking about the experience of the ego forgetting ego.
>I think the point is that you think he thinks ego is destroyed in the 
>unity. I'm not sure he does.  

  I'm not sure I do either, Eric.  Of course, I'm largely playing anyway. 
  I don't think anything is destroyed in moments of intense awareness. 
  Your choice of words suits me--"the ego forgetting the ego." 
  But, if it's forgotten . . . 
  
	Gone like the moon
	Wrapped in a cloud


>Perhaps you misunderstand each other.
>
  Only when the HE and I get involved.  :) :)


Jim Travers
From: emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Rinzai vs. Soto Zen - descriptions?
Date: 8 Oct 92 19:09:00 GMT
Organization: ----
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

gorilla@cats.ucsc.edu (Christopher John Arnold) writes:

>>I was wondering if anyone can explain the differences between the
>>two schools?

>In my thumbed copy of Roshi Philip Kapleau's _Three_Pillars_of_Zen_
>Kapleau compares Rinzai to a strict old military man and Soto to a
>scented spring breeze. [... impressions deleted.]

Rinzai is for the desperate. 
Soto is for people with some calm.
From: pjm@cshl.org (Pat Monardo)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: a question for buddhists...
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:27:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.44221
Distribution: world
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs

In article <44068@ogicse.ogi.edu> MORIARTY@VM1.NoDak.EDU writes:
>How excellent that someone has seen the paradox between the
>teaching of reincarnation and the teaching of anatta.  It is
>a wonderful mystery that leads the meditator to the deepest
>levels of awareness.  There you will discover the silence beyond
>discourse, contemplate the rising and fall of the waves of the
>infinte ocean of the mind, and with the merits of your former
>lifetimes, you will achieve enlightenment and realize that there
>is no you to achieve enlightenment.  Congratulations on your
>progress.
>     At a lower level of awareness, some teach that the forces
>of the five skhandas reincarnate without reference to absolute ego.
>
>     In gassho, Michael/ Email: Moriarty@vm1.nodak.edu

wonderful, yes, this is the essence of the experience.
the way i perceive these "waves of the infinite ocean of the mind"
are that they are fluctuations in time perception as the mind releases from
the dominance of the coarse human skandhas and vice-versa.
an interesting experience i had was coming down from 
infinite space/consciousness meditation was that i
had to repeat over and over again "i have to reenter time",
"i have to reenter time". my perception would descend
and life-continuum consciousness would try to emerge but i would
"overshoot" and flutter back into timelessness.
i have now rediscovered how to trigger this awareness
with simple breathing meditations. the rhythmic patterns
of breathing trigger my mind to "release" and the rising and
falling of breath become the rising and falling of "mind waves". 
having a Christian background, i still fall into the thought patterns
of emerging into the "presence of the Lord", but that is still very
mysterious to me.

-- 
-- Pat Monardo
-- pjm@cshl.org
From: pjm@cshl.org (Pat Monardo)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: The joy of "letting go" according to Buddhism.
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:51:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.43972
Distribution: world
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs

In article <43953@ogicse.ogi.edu> lyeh@alleg.edu (Hun Lye) writes:
>glorify it.  He did not say "end existence so that you end duhkha".  But  
>instead, he teaches that there is an end to duhkha.  We are not hopelessly  
>stuck with duhkha.  We can end duhkha.  So, how do we do this?
>

we end dukkha by opening the mind-door to the Uncreated,
Unborn realm from which we come. imho, the jhana meditations
and the formless meditations are not "realms of rebirth"
which have to be "given up", but rather descriptions of the mental
transformations which occur as we enter this blissful awareness.
they have been systematized to help those whose mind-doors
are firmly shut. but these eight deliverances are actually
experienced in an "instant". to quote Jefferson Airplane:

Open it, baby, open it, open that door.

More than human can we be, since humans do be locked
in this planetary cycle.
-- 
-- Pat Monardo
-- pjm@cshl.org
From: Peter Igner <igner@gmd.de>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Summary about Buddhism
Date: 8 Oct 1992 09:33:52 -0700
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

Hello,
I am looking for a summary about Buddhism. I spend half a year in
NewZealand and
got a contact to the FWBO. Now I have to discuss with a christian about
Buddhism.
Please write some facts or aspects about the Buddhism. I only know
somethings
about meditation and I am very happy with it.
Thank you for you answer in advance -- 
Peter Igner
--
Peter Igner
E-mail: igner@gmd.de
German National Research Institute for Computer Science
- St. Augustin (near Bonn)
From: emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Soul
Date: 8 Oct 92 19:13:55 GMT
Organization: ----
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

travers@iWarp.intel.com (Jim Travers) writes:

>>It is true that for convenience sake there are references to I, you, they,
>>it etc..  These are emptiness; they are form; as is everything else we may
>>assert absolutely. 

Druta replies:

>Convenient indeed. And what do you mean by convenient anyways? Convenient for
>you of course. No question of convenience for a nothing. Every word you have
>written demonstrates that you and I and he and she are distinct, conscious,
>individual entities... 

He's just talking about the experience of the ego forgetting ego.
I think the point is that you think he thinks ego is destroyed in the 
unity. I'm not sure he does. Perhaps you misunderstand each other.
From: mayne@phi.cs.fsu.edu (William Mayne)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: a question for buddhists...
Date: 14 Oct 92 18:32:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.44201
Distribution: world
Organization: Florida State University Computer Science Department

In article <44065@ogicse.ogi.edu> walsha@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (The only thing God didn't do to Job was give him a computer.) writes:
 >after thinking about this and reading people's response - I believe that
 >perhaps what Buddhists believe is that beneath the Ego, beneath the
 >Person, lies a level of life that maybe I might call Life-Essence, or
 >Life-Energy. This Life-Energy can neither be created or destroyed.
 >It passes from incarnation to incarnation bringing with it not any
 >ego or personhood, but bringing a quality of relative enlightenment -
 >maybe a "lightness" or an "unencumberedness." Maybe what it brings
 >with it is a closeness or distance from Nirvana.
 >
 >If anyone could confirm or deny that this is what a "classical"
 >buddhist believes, i would appreciate it.

Denied.

You are welcome. :-)

Bill Mayne
From: rlb@plex-1.ann-arbor.mi.us (Robin Billings)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Summary about Buddhism
Date: 11 Oct 1992 23:14:50 -0700
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

In article <1b1ntgINNa7j@sandman.caltech.edu> Peter Igner <igner@gmd.de> writes:
>Hello,
>I am looking for a summary about Buddhism. I spend half a year in

I heartily recommend the writings of Thich Nhat Hanh, particularly his recent
book: Peace Is Every Step.  The basis of Buddhist teachings, to my mind, is
the possibility that we can cultivate the capacity to see ourselves without
distortion, totally objectively, without justification or condemnation, and
so awaken the capacity for genuine compassion and understanding.  This begins
by cultivating an undistorted, clear attention in the present moment.  The
breath is a constant in life, and as such can serve as a means of        
concentrating our awareness and freeing it from the distortions that arise
in self-centered consciousness (ma-rigpa or 'ignorance').  Thus, it is
most helpful to pay attention to breathing 24 hours a day, particularly
when we become overwhelmed by anger, jealousy, envy, and other negative
energies that the self-centered aspect of our being struggles with every
day.  Bringing compassion and understanding to ourselves, it then naturally
extends toward others, who are ultimately understood as also being ourselves.

Hope that's helpful.
From: mw@ki.fht-mannheim.de (Marc Wachowitz)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Ramblings about Life (In a depressed mood) ....
Date: 11 Oct 1992 23:25:28 -0700
Organization: Fachhochschule fuer Technik Mannheim
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

vishwas <vvs3564@tamsun.tamu.edu> wrote:
: Life is like that !

Indeed this is life :-)

: Don't know whether one is right or wrong

The light smell of a flower.

: Don't know what one want or don't want!
: Questions look so simple but not are they!
: Life is really puzzling!
: One book says one thing Other says another.
: One guru says one thing Other says another.

An excellent comedy!

: Don't need all the sensual pleasures 
: But do mistakes sometimes.

The fresh wind blows through the tree's branches.
What is the mistake of the falling leaf?

: Desireless one wants to be;  Still desiring for your love only!
: Is there a paradox you see?

Indeed this the description of a double-bind situation.
No move wins.
What is there to win or lose?
What is there?
Here?
?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Marc Wachowitz, mw@ki.fht-mannheim.de   /  news zombie - reply by e-mail, too
  *  wonder everyday    *    nothing in particular    *    all is special  *
From: mcpeabo@yang.earlham.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: re: summary about Buddism
Date: 11 Oct 92 19:15:54 GMT
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana

Read Thich Nat Hanh, he's my favorite master....

--
mcpeabo@yang.earlham.edu
From: lyeh@alleg.edu (Hun Lye)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: The joy of "letting go" according to Buddhism.
Date: 11 Oct 92 05:34:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.43953
Distribution: world
Organization: Allegheny College


	Most, if not all of us want happiness.  It is natural to want to  
be happy.  All sentient beings are constantly doing everything to make  
sure that they obtain a taste of happiness.  Very often when we are happy  
we do not know it.  It is only when we look back when we know how to say  
"ah!  I was so happy then".  Therefore, we constantly look back and  
compare our present situation with past experiences.  "I was so happy the  
other nite", "Last year, at this time I was so happy" and it goes on and  
on.  Why can't we be happy now?  Many ask this question.  Of those who do  
not ask, they must either be truly happy or they are so caught up in their  
own unhappiness or disatisfaction that they seem to have even forgoten  
what happiness is all about!      
	Based on his on observation and enlightenment, the Buddha saw that  
if there is one thing we can say about existence, it is that existence is  
marked by "duhkha" - often (but not entirely accurately) translated as  
"suffering".  Duhkha carries the meanings of unhappiness, disatisfaction,  
unease and suffering.  Far from being pessimistic, the Buddha was just  
stating the obvious - although often not very obvious to us.  If we look  
around the world we see that duhkha is prevalent.  In our own microcosm,  
we see that we constantly experience duhkha.  For example, the process of  
birth is duhkha.  Illness is duhkha.  Our body cannot even tolerate a  
thorn in it or a spark of flame.  Mentally we cannot find rest.  We need  
to constantly reassure ourselves,  to go all out so that we do not  
encounter duhkha.  And of course aging and death is duhkha.  The Buddha  
did not say that since duhkha is the mark of existence, accept duhkha or  
glorify it.  He did not say "end existence so that you end duhkha".  But  
instead, he teaches that there is an end to duhkha.  We are not hopelessly  
stuck with duhkha.  We can end duhkha.  So, how do we do this?



To be continued....

Any comments welcome.  Please feel free to contact me or anything....  

--
lyeh@alleg.edu (Hun Lye)
From: darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: sexuality in today's world
Date: 7 Oct 1992 10:47:28 -0700
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

In article <1aq8isINN2bj@sandman.caltech.edu>, tt@wag.caltech.edu (Toshi Takeuchi) writes:
> 
> This post has been very difficult for me to write due to the sensitivity 
> of the subject.  I am trying to approach the topic of sexuality, NOT
> on the basis of what is right or wrong, but on the basis of experience,
> example and the effects of sexuality in our lives.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

             [long post deleted]

> Toshi
> tt@wag.caltech.edu
> 
> P.S.  This has been a long post.  Please read it, reply to it, and make
>       comments about it.  I need help on this subject as much as any
>       of you might!!

I guess the standard Buddhist answer would be to strive for non-attachment
to your desires. During the course of the day I often find myself looking
at attractive women. When this happens, I try to just watch the arising
of the desire thus provoked rather than just getting caught up in it.
Easier said than done! And sometimes there are feelings of unworthiness
and shame that sometimes also arise in conjunction with this, i.e.,

   "Oh, there I go again, caught in sexual desire. I must not be
    a very spiritual person."

Of course this is just another game of ego to protect itself from
serious scrutiny.  

If your karma leads you into a serious relationship in which sex is
involved, then this is also an opportunity for practice...practice
being totally present and being concerned with another's pleasure
as well as your own. 

You're absolutely right that suppressing one's sexual energies is
a counterproductive approach. Sexual energy, when properly channeled
can have a powerful transformative effect. Again, easier said than
done.

Good luck with it all,

Richard
From: rlb@plex-1.ann-arbor.mi.us (Robin Billings)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Becoming aware
Date: 11 Oct 1992 23:22:08 -0700
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu
Keywords: the 'prison of belief'

>So in this sense, bhakti-yoga is about refining one's taste in pleasure. The
>pleasure of devotional service leads to eternality, transcendental knowledge,
>and ever-increasing spiritual pleasure in one's rasa with Krishna. The
>pleasure of material sex, while certainly a pleasure, is mixed with certain
>unpleasant additives which the discriminating pleasure seeker prefers to
>avoid altogether.

Thus, through manipulation of oneself, one attains that which is desired.
In fact, this very manipulation of the self, which is born of thinking,
is the problem from which one is so desparately seeking to become free of.
Following a system and applying the teachings of a guru to oneself, one
denies one's own natural inclinications and tendencies, suppressing onself,
and never seeing oneself exactly as one is, without condemnation or
justification; living one's life according to the instructions of another
we will forever remain second-hand human beings.  The Earth is covered with
an ocean of sorrow from millenia of this kind of violence toward others and
ourselves.  Can all this violence, the need for beliefs and systems itself,
come to an end?  The guru and his followers are the quintessence of violence.
Can we become free of dependency upon authorities altogether, grow up and
become responsible for ourselves; responsible for understanding the roots
of our own violence and fear, without depending upon anybody?  Is not the
very dependency itself part of the problem?  Tradition is violence.  Let
us become free of the violence of tradition, of the millenial chain of
beliefs, dogmas, doctirines, theories, manipulations, and all the ugliness
perpetrated in the name of beauty.
From: hughg@brutus.ee.su.oz.au (Hugh Garsden)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Da Free John
Date: 7 Oct 1992 10:42:28 -0700
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

Permit me to be critical, no offence ...

In article <1aq7tpINN21n@sandman.caltech.edu>, Judy Royster <royster@think.com>
writes: 
...
|> The Way of the Heart 

Another Way! Which one is this, the fifth? The tenth? Relative to the Way of
Christ, The Way of the Yogi, Gurdjieff's Fourth Way etc.


|> He has more than 50 published books now
...
|> His other books are on a variety of
|> subjects including: specific spiritual practices and disciplines,

I'm just wondering why someone who discovered that we are already
enlightened, that there is no need for seeking, and that the enlightened man
is the same as the ordinary man, and that meditation does nothing for
you, then writes 50 books about how to live, about spiritual "practices",
about God-realization and how to "get it", and goes to live on an island
surrounded by devotees.  

Why isn't he selling hamburgers at McDonalds? "Why should he?" you may
respond. Nevertheless, has he given any reason for his current exploits?
Maybe I don't understand. I like "The Knee of Listening" (old version) but he
seems to have wandered off the theme.

Still, ours is not reason why? ...

|>Regional communities of devotees practice "The Way of the Heart" in 13
|>centers around the world including several in North America, and others in
|>Holland, London, Australia

If you have a contact in Australia I'm interested enough to follow it up.

>His autobiography, "The Knee of Listening" was
>recently published in its original, **unabridged** format (twice the length
>of the previously published book)

Let me know the details.

Thanks for the response.

-- 
Hugh Garsden
University of Sydney 
hughg@ee.su.oz.au
From: billc@devnull.mpd.tandem.com (Bill Carter)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: a question for buddhists...
Date: 8 Oct 1992 09:34:16 -0700
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

In article <1asln0INN35o@sandman.caltech.edu> @cs.hh.ab.com,ICCGCC::WALSHA writes:
>
>
>I was reading Conze's commentary on the heart sutra last night and
>when i got to the part where he says: "there is no ego,
>there is no lasting person other than that generated by the 
>interplay of the 5 skandhas," I wondered how buddhists reconcile 
>this with the idea of reincarnation.
>
>I recently read a post where the writer affirmed his commitment to
>enlightenment even if it took many lifetimes. But if you have no
>survivable ego or personhood, what exactly will be working towards 
>enlightenment over that course of time?
>
   Good question. I don't know how the Buddhists reading this newgroup
   will answer it, and I'm not a Buddhist per se or anything else.
   But it does seem to me to be some wishful and egotistic thinking
   when people expect to have their personality preserved through
   a series of life-death cycles.

   Your ego might like to think itself is precious and important enough
   to live forever until it finally gets especially nifty.  I don't
   think it works that way.  As for re-incarnation, I figure that there
   is just incarnation without the "re".

   --------------------
   Bill Carter        "There isn't anyplace else to go."
From: rlb@plex-1.ann-arbor.mi.us (Robin Billings)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Da Free John
Date: 11 Oct 1992 23:19:17 -0700
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

I have read Franklin Jones books and have found him to be highly intelligent,
well read, and quite thoroughly familiar with all the spiritual paths I know
of and was initially interested in connecting with his institutionalized
teaching.  However, I have seen the typical forms of violence that
characterizes the guru and his follower in full flower with Franlin Jones
and can only lament that here is yet another example of the crisis in 
human consciousness: ego-inflation masquerading as the source of that
benediction which is the birthright of all that is.  Franklin was a follower
of Muktananda, who was less than pleased with him toward the end, but
these feelings often arise toward the competition and are understandable.
 
If one is truly serious about understanding the meaning of one's life, 
dependency upon an authority renders one a second-hand human being and
that meaning will remain forever elusive; seeing this creates the
possibility of becoming free of violence.  The one who follows the individual
foolish enough to profer a system is conforming to something which inevitably
goes against one's own tendencies and inclinations, and remains the very
means by which the project of self-centeredness is maintained.
 
Although I am sure his followers would strongly disagree with this type
of observation, I am also sure that you will find this type of dependency
in any religious institution and it is hardly instructional to listen to
the justifications for continued dependency, save as a reflective surface.
If you care to connect with the Australian centers, simply write the
Free Daist Communion and you will undoubtedly be steered toward the 10%
tithe or $100/month (whichever is greater) offer to become a student and
read Franklin's writings in a group setting, as well as receive other
instructions on how to achieve the unachievable.  I know of one Cory Sea
who used to be in Melbourne, practicing as a psycologist and alternative
healer, as well as a musician, who left for missionary work for Franklin
in America, but who has returned to Australia as Franklin's organization
provided no financial support for their missionary work or the health
crisis his wife developed while in America.  They are now in Sweet Water or
some such Notrhern Austrlian place, starting over, and continue to hold
Franklin Jones in high esteem.  Perhaps they could connect you with Cory.
If you care to get his address and phone, email me and I will forward it.