From: tomster@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Thomas Richard Dibble)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More Defense of CLI (there, I changed the subject ... )
Date: 6 Oct 92 22:27:02
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
	<6082.2ac8918b@hayes.com> <1992Oct3.235607.14542@nwnexus.WA.COM>
	<ewright.718384012@convex.convex.com> <ibhan.718394592@husc8>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigwpi.wpi.edu
In-reply-to: ibhan@husc8.harvard.edu's message of 6 Oct 92 18:03:12 GMT

In article <ibhan.718394592@husc8> ibhan@husc8.harvard.edu (Ishir Bhan) writes:

   ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) writes:

   >In <1992Oct3.235607.14542@nwnexus.WA.COM> kanefsky@halcyon.com (Steve Kanefsky) writes:


   >>If you really think that the GUI is faster than a CLI in every case,
   >>try this:  Go into your favorite word processor.  Type a line.  Now 
   >>make 5 copies of the line using command-C and command-V.  Now do the
   >>same using the copy and paste menu items.  Time each one and tell me
   >>which is faster.  

   >Well, I won't go into all the reasons why it's impossible to 
   >time yourself in an experiment like this -- I would have thought
   >that was obvious.  However, if you set up a proper experiment,
   >with an unbiased subject and unbiased observer, you will probably
   >find the same thing as everyone else who has performed this experiment:
   >using the menus is faster, although, to the user, cmd-C and cmd-V
   >*seem* faster.

Oh, really?  Is that what they found?
I think it's time to bring up the list of survey results.  Seems to me there
were just as many surveys saying the opposite as there were supporting your
statements.

   The point is that with a GUI you have the option of using either.  With a
   new program, you don't need to memorize obscure commands.  You can rely
   on the actual menus to get you started, and then learn the command-key
   equivalents for them if they are faster.

No, no, no.  You're talking *programs* here, not the CLI / GUI.  Believe
it or not, there *is* a difference.  Now, if you want to start talking
graphics-based programs versus text-based programs, we can start doing
that.  If you (as you obviously seem to) want to compare 30-minute
hack programs whith no interface to those with a good interface, I
don't think there is any room for discussion there.  Keep to the subject or
start a new subject line.

   >>CLIs may have a big disadvantage in terms of the time it 
   >>takes to learn the commands, but they often have a big advantage in
   >>speed, 

   >Why does your definition of speed exclude the time it takes
   >to learn a command?  That statement is like saying, "The Rolls
   >Royce may have a big disadvantage in terms of the money it takes
   >to buy it, but it often has a big advantage over the Hundai in
   >cost per mile." 

Which would be a very important statement indeed.  If I understand you right, 
you are saying that in the ten or so years it takes your Rolls to conk out
you would have bought five Yugos, the total cost of the Yugos plus their
maintenance being less than the total cost of the Rolls, then it would be
much smarter to buy the Rolls in the first place.  I don't think actual
figures would back this assertation up (or maybe they would; Yugos are
pretty chintsy cars ...), but it was a good point.  If only you had known
you made it...

   Also, if the GUI has command-key equivalents, which is faster?  The GUI
   removes the steep learning curve and (in the Mac) allows for command-key
   equivalents for frequently used commands.

How do you start up MS Word without using your mouse?

   -- 

		--      Ishir Bhan (ibhan@husc.harvard.edu)      --

		---- tomster@wpi.wpi.edu
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