HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Slartibartfast)
Subject: Re: Advice wanted on minivans
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:11:53 GMT

In article <21JAN93.09777035.0081@SEMOVM.SEMO.EDU> C741SCB <C741SCB@SEMOVM.SEMO.EDU> writes:
>I'm thinking of buying a new minivan.  A local dealer offers a
>Plymouth Voyager for about 14,000; I'd be interested in information
>about this and other minivan makes.  Didn't Voyager have some
>problems a few years back?  Have they been fixed?
>
	The Chryseler Minivans had a problem a few years back with their
AT's, but C/D recently long-term tested a Caravan where the had NO problems,
with anything...  Try the new Mercury/Nissan vans, and the Previa and MPV also.


-- 
 Chintan Amin  The University of Illinois, Urbana Champaign  c-amin1@uiuc.edu
  "Public speaking is very easy!" <-- Quayle 10/88  ;-)
  "Unfortunately, the people of Louisiana are not racists" <-- Quayle, 10/12/90
NeXTMail Accepted at cka52397@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu  Go Illini Holiday Bowl 1992
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: ah179@yfn.ysu.edu (Brian Wilson)
Subject: Good VW ad
Organization: Youngstown State/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:30:16 GMT


Back when the VW Bug was selling like hotcakes, they had a funny
TV advertisement.  The scene was a snow-covered landscape very 
early in the morning.  A snowplow is clearing the road.  A voice
asks a sensible question, "Ever wonder what the snowplow drivers
drive to work?"  The scene switches, of course, to a VW Bug...
 
-- 
Brian Wilson (not from the Beach Boys)               ROLL TIDE!
 
"How come two wrongs don't make a right, yet three lefts do?"
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: behanna@phoenix.syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna)
Subject: Re: Dodge Omni 89
Organization: NEC Systems Laboratory, Inc.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 21:23:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.204924.18028@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca> shaikh@ee470.ee.mcgill.ca (SHAIKH/AMIR/MR) writes:
>I was wondering...it's rumored that the Dodge Omni series has
>starting trouble in winter...is this true???
>
>It is also said that the 89 model of this doesn't have starting troubles...
>can anybody confirm this??

	Well, if the choke sticks wide open, you have to hold the revs up
with the throttle.  Other than that, the piece of shit always started.  The
'89 might have been EFI (no carb), so you no longer have a choke to stick.

	BTW, I have a collection of Omni/Horizon parts I want rid of:

	five or six wheels in good condition with reasonable tires,
	a hood (!)
	an airbox (for '79)
	headlight bezels with the turn signal lenses intact
	a right-rear taillight assembly for '79.
	wheel rings aplenty

	Please buy this stuff from me (prices will be low and negotiable) so
that I don't have to move it again.

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw)
Subject: Re: Vehicle size vs. safety (was: Crash Te
Organization: Motorola Western MCU Design Center, Chandler Arizona
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:12:21 GMT

In article <96757@rphroy.ph.gmr.com>, rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com (Bob Haar) writes:
|> In article 9187@newsgate.sps.mot.com, mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw) writes:
|> |>What does the data say about accident rates for large and small vehicles
|> |>normalized for age of driver?  
|> |>
|> 
|> Evans analyzed the dtat in a number of ways that involved driver's
|> age. If you are really interested, you should read the book. But I
|> will extract some information from two graphs that might be 
|> helpful.
|> 
|> On page 30, Evans show driver fatalites per billion km of travel
|> vs age. The graph looks like a backwards J, with the high at about
|> 20 yeras old, the low in the forties [me!!], and then slowly rising with
|> increasing age. The fatalities for males at age 20 appears to be over five
|> times higher than at age 85.
|> 
|> Later, he graphs sever crash involvements per million licensed
|> drivers vs age. For males at age 20, the number of severe accidents
|> per million drivers is nearly 2,000. AT age 85, it is about 200.
|> 
|> And that explains why insurance rates are so much higher for
|> young male drivers.

Neither result is too astounding, but what I am looking for is an
analysis of fatalities versus car size for the SAME circumstances.
(i.e. all pole impacts below 20 mph, 20-45 mph, >45 mph)  It doesn't
take a rocket scientist to take every accident recorded by the history
of man and analyze it by size, driver age, or whatever else fits into
the little data fields on the accident report.  If you ever look at 
the standard accident report form, you will see what I mean.  

More GIGO.  Draw whatever conclusions your political agenda desires.

Mark
From: rhorwell@atc.boeing.com (Roland Faragher-Horwell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Best Car ads (was RE: Lexus Commercials)
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:57:10 GMT
Reply-To: rhorwell@atc.boeing.com
Organization: Sun Microsystems

My favorites are as follows:  

Mid-1980s Citroen AX or VISA (can't remember which) ad where the car drives full speed 
off an aircraft carrier and lands in the water only to be lifted up by a submarine 
sitting beneath it.

Early 1970s Fiat 128 advertisement showing 2 128s chasing eachother from roof-top
to roof-top in a city (jumping from building to building).

~1980 Citroen GS ad showing the car racing straight at the 'white cliffs of Dover',
having a blowout, and making a 90 deg turn on 3 good tires at speed just before 
going over the cliff demonstrating the superiority of the Hydropneumatic suspension.
(this ad won at the Cannes Film Festival for Commercials).

'93  Volvo 850GLT ad showing the old 444 being driven in the desert.

~1976 Renault 5 (le car) ad with animated frog singing 'thank heaven for little cars'
with a Maurice Chevallier voice (introducing the R5 in the US before it was called
'Le Car').

~1987 Peugeot 505 Turbo ad showing a bright red 505 crashing thru the wall of a
bedroom with the caption implying that the French are good at things besides making 
love.

The "it's so wide" campaign (~'76) for the AMC Pacer - mainly because it was so
dumb, it was amusing  (likewise for the "what's a matador" campaign earlier in the
70s).
From: Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Taurus now #1 seller?
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 16:40:40 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa

Ford has recently been running a new Taurus television ad campaign
(at least here in SoCal they have) and now claim that Taurus is
"the #1 selling automobile in the USA."

When did Taurus sales surpass Honda Accord? 
Just curious.

Harv
('90 Taurus Wagon owner :)
From: alan@lancaster.nsc.com (The Hepburn)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Bleeding Brake Lines on a Ford F-100: I need help!
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:58:39 GMT
Organization: National Semiconductor Corporation

In article <1993Jan25.215010.1@bronco.fnal.gov>, colombo@bronco.fnal.gov writes:
|> In article <13894@limey>, sheriffp@Software.Mitel.COM (Peter Sheriff) writes:
|> > 
|> >      The bleed nipples are 3/8" AF not metric. Use a six sided socket to
|> > start the nipple moving and then put a box wrench on it to do the bleed.
|> 
|> The wrench has 4 1/2 (nearly five sides), I just looked at mine.
|> I'd like to see you get a six-sided/box wrench over the tubing.
|> 
|>

What usually works for me is to put the wrench on the nipple and then attach
the tubing, or to put the tubing through the wrench and then attach the tubing.
It's really not that hard!


-- 
Alan Hepburn           "Nothing is so ignorant as the ignorance
National Semiconductor       of Certainty."
Santa Clara, Ca              
alan@berlioz.nsc.com                              Aldous Huxley
Xref: sparky rec.autos:32384 rec.autos.tech:18179
From: damong@vole.WPI.EDU (Damon'Fiat'Gentile)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
Subject: Inspection requirements
Date: 21 Jan 1993 19:29:43 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: vole.wpi.edu

Hello all. I was just curious about how to find out state requirements for
inspection.  ( specifically concerning emission requirements ... actually
loudness... for a '74 (no clean air required))

If anyone knows where I can find this info, or if anyone has any info
(  I realize that Massachsets and New Hampshire are not your typical states )
But any input ... or reference from anypace else is greatly welcome.

Thanks,
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: wolfson@regatta.sps.mot.com (Stephen Wolfson)
Subject: Re: BMW M3 Inquiry
Organization: SPS
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:39:16 GMT

In article <47j3tzk@rpi.edu> kokerj@jec309.its.rpi.edu (James Matthew  
Kokernak) writes:
> 'M' stands for money! :-) Depending on your price range, you might want  
to 

You can also get a Cam replacement, Computer chip replacement, and
couple of other minor mods for a standard 325 series, probably not
as fast as an M3 but possibly enough to suit your needs.
From: mills@athena.lkg.dec.com (George Mills)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Buying a Saturn
Date: 25 Jan 93 06:07:32 GMT

Don't spoil a good thing.
It sure is nice to recommend to a sister, brother or mother or something
to go look at a car and not worry about them getting ripped off.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: "tom neumann" <tom.neumann@canrem.com>
Subject: >>> how do i get taur
Reply-To: "tom neumann" <tom.neumann@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 25 Jan 93 08:19:47 EST


Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser) writes:

HR>If it's not a power antenna, and it's the stock 1-piece steel "whip"
HR>style Taurus antenna, it does NOT go down. It'll go thru a car wash
HR>just fine.

You probably will get away with it 9,999 times out of 10,000 but:

We had one customer that took their 90 Volkswagen Golf (with the
exact same antenna you refer to) through a car wash; one that they
had gone through many times before with the antenna attached.

This ONE time the antenna got caught in the roller-brush. It picked
the car right off of the floor as the antenna wrapped around the
roller! It pulled part of the fender around the antenna mount up
about a half of a foot before the roller stopped turning.

It's the only time I've heard of it, and odds are you'll usually get
away with it, but I think it would still be a bit safer to take the
antenna off.

Tom Neumann
---
  DeLuxe 1.25 #350  I sell Volkswagens.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: dwsmall@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Derek 'Enzo' Small)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Goodyear Eagles GT+4 / GA
Date: 25 Jan 93 05:33:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: miavx1.1993Jan25.103320.15249
Distribution: world
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"

>>I'd say unless you do a lot of hard driving, go with the GAs.  You get a
>>smoother, quieter ride for less $$$, and it lasts longer.

Not to mention you get NO warranty at all with GT+4's.  I'm not knocking
them.  I have had a couple of sets myself but my last set would have been
GA's had GoodYear made them in 205/55R16's.

-- 
*******************************************************************************
* Derek "Enzo" Small                   [san.dwsmall]@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu    *
*                                      Miami University, Oxford, Ohio 45056   *
*******************************************************************************
*                                                                             *
*  " Work hard but know your limitations.  Your dog can do things that would  *
*    break you neck."                                                         *
*    ^^^^^	        	Johnny Carson				      *
*									      *
*******************************************************************************

Break-Brake   Yeah I finally noticed.  (got to get new spell checker...damn)
From: jitloke@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Jit-Loke Lim)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Worst Car Award
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:41:00 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <1993Jan25.204534.17151@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com> c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
>Some car magazine I checked during lunch actually discussed the ugliest
>car ever made, and I think the winner (by leaps & bounds) was a
>French car, I think a Renault 6. 
>Or, any Citroen (i.e. 2CV to CX)

Actually, I find some Citroens quite attractive. I'm not sure if they were
ever imported to the US but the CX2000 and CX2200 Pallas of the late 70s were
simply gorgeous automobiles. They would look absolutely stunning if they're
produced today. In fact , I believe one of the "Back to the Future" series
featured a Citroen DS(70s?) in the future. The DS had some of the most 
advanced styling cues including those tear-drop shaped headlights that are only
now showing up in the Vipers, MX-3s, ES300s, Del Sols, etc. It is sad  that
the Citroens of today do not have any distinguishing styling traits. Bring
back the old designs and improve the reliability I say.


Jit


PS. I agree about the Renaults. It was a TR11 I think where you couldn't 
distinguish the front from the back that was truly horrendous.
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Politics of car buying(Buying a Japanese car)
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:08:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: noose.1993Jan27.160818.26080
Distribution: na
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <CARL.93Jan26153758@atlantis.Cayman.COM> carl@Cayman.COM (Carl Heinzl) writes:
>
>>Everyone seems to be missing a few really basic points in this
>>discussion of our trade imbalance.  First: population and
>>productivity.  Japan has a comparatively small population and high
>>productivity.  USA has a high population and lower productivity.  So
>
>First, Japan has approximatly 50% the population of the US.  I would
>NOT consider that small!!!
>

actually...last i heard japan's population was 218..or 238 million...not far
behind our 265 million...of course...we have room to spread out here in 
america...land of the free..home of the energy taxes...hey...watch it clinton!
From: rhorwell@atc.boeing.com (Roland Faragher-Horwell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: remove your Cat - lose your car?!?
Date: 28 Jan 93 17:01:27 GMT
Reply-To: rhorwell@atc.boeing.com
Distribution: na
Organization: Shmorganization




>
>	"Mind you, aside from replaceing it, the other two ways are
>	against the law is most (all?) states, and could get you some
>	big fines."
>
>More than just fines -- you could lose the car.  It happened here in
>Oregon a few years ago.  The owner of a new BMW removed his cat and the
>state found out.  They required him not to operate the car until the
>cat had been replaced by the *factory*.  Said factory is in Bavaria,
>and the cost of all this exceeded the value of the car.
>
>The local newspaper had a photo of the beemer headed for a scrap heap.
>

[Names removed to protect the innocent]

This sounds very "urban legend"-like!  BMW service centers are authorized to
perform work on the emission systems of all US models of their line.  This includes
replacing the cat!  (they do this all the time).  Dealerships will sell you a new
cat - for you to install yourself!  There is no law dictating who installs the component,
only that the component be installed properly and that it function properly.

If this is a true story, the owner of the car is a complete idiot for not fixing it 
at the shop!   I suspect that there is much more to the story than a missing cat - like 
maybe it was a euro-model that had been illegally imported - for this, they will crush
the car.  For a missing  or defective cat (on an otherwise legal car) - I don't think so!

(I did see a Mehari get crushed about 4 years ago after some people bought it and shipped
it to Seattle without considering safety/emission standards!)


Roland
From: erich.lim@yob.sccsi.com (Erich Lim) 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: RE: HOW TO CLEAN ENGINE.
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:03:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Ye Olde Bailey BBS - Houston, TX - 713-520-1569
Reply-To: erich.lim@yob.sccsi.com (Erich Lim) 

cshafai@eeserv.ee.umanitoba.ca (Cyrus Shafai) writes:
-> How do you clean your engine?  Can you use water and mild soap like
-> you use for the body of the car?  Is there a danger of shorting some
-> of the electrical systems?
->
-> Or should you just rub it/the hoses, etc. with a damp cloth?
-> I am current just rubbing dirty areas with a damp cloth.

  No, this is not the way to go upone it!  (-:  What you do is go to
your auto parts store and get a bottle of engine degreaser (costs about
$3 for a couple of uses.)  You're supposed to cover up your distributor,
spark plugs, and air filter box.  Then, you spray the stuff all over
your engine and let it sit for 10-15minutes and spray off with water.
After doing this, then you drive the car around for 15-30 minutes.
  If you don't want to do it yourself and get it even cleaner, bring it
to a detailing place and they'll steam clean your engine.  This costs
between $30-50 depending on where you go and what kind of car you have.


Erich.
erich.lim@yob.sccsi.com
  
----
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Ye Olde Bailey BBS   713-520-1569 (V.32bis) 713-520-9566 (V.32bis)     |
|   Houston,Texas          yob.sccsi.com       Home of alt.cosuard       |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: hagger@cs.umd.edu (Paul Hagger)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Vehicle size vs. safety (was: Crash Te
Date: 22 Jan 93 18:05:43 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <96757@rphroy.ph.gmr.com> rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com writes:
>|>In article <96654@rphroy.ph.gmr.com>, rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com (Bob Haar) writes:
>|>|> Let me add some data to this discussion. The following is paraphrased
>|>|> from "Traffic Safety and the Driver" by Leonard Evans and is based
>
>Evans analyzed the dtat in a number of ways that involved driver's
>age. If you are really interested, you should read the book. But I
>will extract some information from two graphs that might be 
>helpful.
>---
>  	Robert Haar               InterNet : rhaar@gmr.com 


Actually, I for one am interested in reading a book of this type.  I have looked
in local bookstores, and the only volume I found had a name similar to the one
you mention.  I don't remember the name of the book too well, though.

If possible, I would like to see if the book I saw was the same as the one you
are describing.  I decided not to buy, based on some statements in the book
that I believe have been well refuted elsewhere, thus rendering this book useless
as far as I am concerned.

The book I saw had similar statistics to the ones you mention.  It also mentions
speeding in roughly three places throughout the lengthy tome.  With no proof,
the book I saw states that speed is the determining factor in assessing driver
safety, and proceeds to clearly declare that speed enforcement is the best way
to ensure safety on our highways.  As far as I am concerned, one of the main
points of the book -- with no basis in fact.

This after every study that I have seen has clearly shown that driver speed is
not affected by enforcement, and that average speed for a typical driver happens
to be a safe speed (certainly helped by the fact that everyone else is going
roughly that speed).


I am honestly interested in whether the two books are the same, or whether I
should request that my local bookseller order me a copy of the Evans book you
describe.

-hagger
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: pebi@aem.umn.edu (Peter A. Bidian)
Subject: Re: Worst Car Award
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 20:05:19 GMT

rhorwell@atc.boeing.com (Roland Faragher-Horwell,CitroenMan) writes:


>In article 17151@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com, c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan25.192014.21045@iqsc.COM> ralf@iqsc.COM (Ralf) writes:
>>>  I will give my opinion on one of the ugliest cars I have ever seen,
>>>The New Pontiac Grand Am, it is just plain ugly.  The Ford Tempo is one
>>>of the weakest in its class, and Nissan's are under - marketed.
>>
>>Some car magazine I checked during lunch actually discussed the ugliest
>>car ever made, and I think the winner (by leaps & bounds) was a
>>French car, I think a Renault 6. 
>>
>>Or, any Citroen (i.e. 2CV to CX)
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Spiros
> 
>Your playing with me right?  Or is all your taste in your mouth?

>Even the R6 isn't nearly as ugly as a Ford Fairmont, older Chev Caprice, etc....

>Give me a DS any day!  Still ahead of practically everything out there!

If somebody has a spare DS 23 Pallas I'll take it....


>In the words of CAR magazine "God! What a beautiful car!"
				I N   D E E D !!!!

Peter
From: nau@ssesco.com (William Nau)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Worst Car Award
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:11:56 GMT
Organization: SSESCO

In article <krothman.728027422@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu>, krothman@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Ken Rothman) writes:
|> nau@ssesco.com (William Nau) writes:
|> 
|> >Ken Rothman <krothman.727987654@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu> writes:
|> >> With all the advances in aerodynamics and ergonomics in design in the past ten
|> >> years (mostly on the part of European and Japanese makers), this beast is an
|> >         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> 
|> >Apparently the Ford Taurus had little influence on the shape of cars today.
|> >In my opinion there is no car that has had a greater influence on the vast
|> >improvements of aerodynamics than the Taurus.
|> 
|> >-- 
|> >William R. Nau
|> 
|> Oh please.... don't give me that tone.  I said mostly.
|> Sure, the Taurus was influential, but do you see many Citation clones?
|> 
|> I said MOSTLY.
|> 
|> Ken

Sorry if the tone came off poorly.  I did see the 'mostly'.  I just consider
the aerodynamics to be 'mostly' influenced by the Taurus.

-- 
William R. Nau
Supercomputer Systems Engineering and Services Company (SSESCO)
511 11th Avenue South, Suite 216
Minneapolis, Minnesota 55415-1536
(612) 342-0003

nau@SSESCO.com
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Worst Car Award
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:45:34 GMT
Organization: Delco Electronics Corp.

In article <1993Jan25.192014.21045@iqsc.COM> ralf@iqsc.COM (Ralf) writes:
>  I will give my opinion on one of the ugliest cars I have ever seen,
>The New Pontiac Grand Am, it is just plain ugly.  The Ford Tempo is one
>of the weakest in its class, and Nissan's are under - marketed.

Some car magazine I checked during lunch actually discussed the ugliest
car ever made, and I think the winner (by leaps & bounds) was a
French car, I think a Renault 6. 

Or, any Citroen (i.e. 2CV to CX)

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser)
Subject: Re: Is it OK to wash off the engine?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 15:26:12 GMT

aland@informix.com (Colonel Panic) writes:

>bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes:

>>Take me out back and shoot me the day I spray cold water on
>>my hot block and heads.

>No, really, it OK -- you just have to coat the hose with Slick 50 first.
>[-:

Hey!  What's this?!?  Infringing on my Turf?!?  *I* make the Slick 50
jokes around here.

:^)

Regards,

Brian

bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am the engineer, I can choose K.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Department of Engineering Mechanics
Ohio State University
Columbus, OH
Newsgroups: rec.autos