HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:48:35 CST
From: C. M. Sperberg-McQueen <U35395@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog
Subject: Re: Help !!
 <j_hamer-210193105028@john-ha.cs.aukuni.ac.nz>

> How do you go about writing an elegant, efficient solution?  For a start,
> DO NOT TRY TO WRITE IT AS A LOGIC PROGRAM!  What you want is a *function*
> from a list of integers to an integer (no backtracking to multiple
> solutions, or solving for either argument is needed).  Therefore, your
> solution should be written in a functional style.  Most students would have
> little trouble in coming up with the following functional solution (in
> Pascal):

If you wanted to write it in Pascal, why didn't you just compile it
in Pascal?  Heiner's program may well run longer than yours.  On the
other hand it is shorter, and much easier to see that it is correct.
Since my machines spend far more time waiting for my keystrokes than
they do working, I see no reason to worry about making code run faster
unless it is now running too slow.  Sufficient unto the day is the
evil thereof; why should I worry about trivial 'inefficiencies' like
those you see in Heiner's code, until they are making my work
unacceptably slow?

-C. M. Sperberg-McQueen
 University of Illinois at Chicago
From: finin@cs.umbc.edu (Timothy Finin)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog
Subject: CIKM-93 CFP -- 2nd Int. Conf. on Information and Knowledge Mgmt.
Date: 23 Jan 1993 15:32:30 -0500
Organization: Computer Science, University of Maryland Baltimore County
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: algol.cs.umbc.edu
Summary: April 1 paper deadline (no jokes, please)
Keywords: database, knowledge base, information retrieval, AI, DB, KB, IR

The CIKM-93, second International Conference on Information and Knowledge
Management will be held November 1-5, 1993 at the Double Tree Hotel in
Washington D.C., USA.  Like the successful CIKM-92, it will provide an
international forum for presentation and discussion of research on
information and knowledge management, as well as recent advances on data
and knowledge bases. Authors are invited to submit papers, proposals for
tutorials and exhibits concerned with theory or practice or both.  Papers
should be sent to the Program Chair, Dr. Bharat Bhargava, by April 1, 1993.

Send email to CIKM-INFO@CS.UMBC.EDU to receive an automatic reply with a
full copy of the Call for Papers.


Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog
From: dyer@airplane.sharebase.com (Scot Dyer)
Subject: Re: Help: making a binary predicate reversibly equal
Reply-To: dyer@airplane.sharebase.com (Scot Dyer)
Organization: NCR/ShareBase Corporation
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 19:12:46 GMT

% From: jssloka@monet.uwaterloo.ca (Scott Sloka)
% Subject: Help: making a binary predicate reversibly equal
% 
% Howdy.  My name is Scott Sloka and I am an AI enthusiast at the University of
% Waterloo.

Howdy.

%            I have a list of facts such as: nextto(a,b) and I would like
% nextto(a,b) to be equivalent to nextto(b,a).  This does not work:
% 
% nextto(X,Y):-nextto(Y,X).
% 
% because an endless loop is set up.  I am just beginning Prolog programming
% because I am doing a project on abstraction and I would like to include this
% parameter switch equalization in my routines for some of my predicates.  Any
% pointers would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

This is a real common problem for beginners.  You need _two_ predicates, one
to handle the symmetry of the relation, and the other to provide the basic
facts.  Try something like:

	nextto( X, Y ) :- nextto_fact( X, Y ).
	nextto( X, Y ) :- nextto_fact( Y, X ).

	nextto_fact( a, b ).
	% and whatever other 'facts' are involved.

%                 -Scott
	-- Scot
+------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+
|Scot Dyer_Rivenburgh    | "Land of song," said the warrior bard,	 |
|dyer@eagle.sharebase.com| "Though all the world betrays thee,		 |
+------------------------+  One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, |
|(He's right, you know.) |  One faithful harp shall praise thee."	 |
+------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog
From: citrin@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Wayne Citrin)
Subject: Re: Help !!
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:38:06 GMT

In article <93021.154835U35395@uicvm.uic.edu> C. M. Sperberg-McQueen <U35395@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>Sufficient unto the day is the
>evil thereof; why should I worry about trivial 'inefficiencies' like
>those you see in Heiner's code, until they are making my work
>unacceptably slow?
>

Because some of us do write large Prolog programs that depend on efficiency,
and it's better to instill good programming habits from the beginning than to
overcome bad programming practice later on.  Besides, I don't believe that
Heiner's program is any cleaner: why should the largest item encountered so
far be placed at the beginning of the list at the next iteration?  That seems
entirely artificial.  Why _not_ keep the largest value seen so far as a 
separate quantity?

Wayne

-----------
Wayne Citrin   citrin@soglio.colorado.edu   citrin@cs.colorado.edu
From: wwm@ef5003.efhd.ford.com (Bill Meahan)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: Questions on GNU Smalltalk
Date: 21 Jan 93 19:31:06 GMT
Organization: Ford Motor Co., EFHD Ypsilanti Operations
NNTP-Posting-Host: ef5003.efhd.ford.com

In article <1993Jan21.182010.8555@freenet.carleton.ca> aa421@Freenet.carleton.ca (Michael Wilson) writes:
>
>In a previous article, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) says:
>>Considering that trying to run it on a Sparc with 8 Meg of memory returns
>>the error "Not enough memory", I can't imagine it ever running on the 3B1.
>
>Actually, I'm running on an old SysV.2 box which has a limit of 3Meg
>per process. I managed to get 1.1.1 going.
>
>You can hack the source to allocate smaller memory/oop spaces, or
>you can set it up to take the sizes off the command line.
>
>McQ
>-- 
>Michael Grant Wilson (McQ)


What does your m-system.h look like?  What other hacking did you do?
Do you have diffs? (a 3b1 IS SYSV.2 with 2.5 meg/process - yours sounds
a lot like a Convergent MiniFrame which is the 3b1's first cousin).


Acutally, given the shared libraries, the 3b1 is actually pretty
efficient.  The kernel is only 153K and I've seen several programs that
take up umpty-megs on a RISC box run pretty well on a 3b1 (68010).  That
is not to say that ST-1.1.1 will, however :-)

I also am looking at "little smalltalk" as an alternative on my 3b1
since my point in bringing ST up is self-education, not developing the
next "killer app" for the hottest platform in town.  And since a 3b1
(not a PC) is what I happen to own at home ....

-- 
Bill Meahan			|EFHD Information Systems Staff
Plant Floor Systems Specialist	|Ford Motor Company
wwm@ef5003.efhd.ford.com      	| +1 313 487 6122
..!fmsrl7!pmsmam!wwm           |I'm not paid to speak for Ford!
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:35:59 CET
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: ALOIS@edvz.uni-linz.ac.at (Gillhofer Alois)
Subject: WindowBuilder 2.0 - Bug fixes
Keywords: Smalltalk/V - WindowBuilder 2.0 - bug fixes
Organization: An Organization Name

Lately I bought Cooper + Peters WindowBuilder 2.0 with Subpans/V for
Windows. But this product has some bugs.

So is there anyone who has a list of bug fixes cause I'm not very
experienced in programming Smalltalk/V.

Thank you in advance!

Alois
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: terry@zoe.network23.com (Terry)
Subject: Re: A Question
Organization: Mystech Associates
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:11:26 GMT

From article <ZINK.93Jan21091955@rorschach.inf-wiss.ivp.uni-konstanz.de>, by zink@inf-wiss.ivp.uni-konstanz.de (Volker Zink):
> 
> 	Hello,
> 
> i work with st80 4.0 . Recently i used Sets to store
> some information. I got an error because i thought,
> that when i "add:" an element to the set, the new
> set would be returned, but the element was returned.
> So i had to rewrite my code (it got longer), and wonder
> if this behaviour is intended. What are you
> thinking of it?
> 
> Bye...
> 	Volker
> 
Yes, this is the indended behavior.  You are not the first,
nor will you be the last, who has been bitten by this
behavior.  This is the behavior for all collections, not
just sets.  If you want the set to be returned do the 
following

aSet add: something; yourself.

Cascading yourself after the add: message will return the
collection.

Terry
-- 
terry@zoe.network23.com
{rayssd,xanth,mirror,att}!galaxia!zoe!terry
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: bernd@aisdo.AIS-Dortmund.DE (Bernd Finger)
Subject: probs with saving image in stv/win 2.0
Organization: AIS GmbH
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:30:24 GMT

Hello world!
I have a very curious problem with stv/win 2.0:
When I start the image, save it and quit, the image size  shrinks from
4.1 MB to 3.0 MB. I don't do any further actions!!
When I try to restart the saved image, I get a general protection
fault at 00008:0389 in the VWVM20.DLL. The only way to save my work is
to file out all changed classes and to install them i a virgin image.
This is sometimes very depressing :-(
Can somebody help me?
cu,
	Bernd!

P.S.: I have the following applications installed in the image:
- Windowbuilder 2.03
- Subpanes/V
- AMST/V


-- 
AIS GmbH
Bernd Finger
Luetge Brueckstrasse 12
4600 Dortmund 1 / Germany
From: beck@amb4.ccalmr.ogi.edu (Bradley Carl Beck)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Good Smalltalk Book?
Date: 21 Jan 93 17:52:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.48901
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

I have some experience programming in C++, but I wanted to give Smalltalk
a try before I get caught up in the C++ frenzy. I have GNU Smalltalk but
now all I need is the language reference.

Thanks! :)

--
Bradley C. Beck                               Voice   : (503) 531-7986
Oregon Graduate Institute                     Internet: bcbeck@ese.ogi.edu
 of Science & Technology (OGI)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: aa421@Freenet.carleton.ca (Michael Wilson)
Subject: Re: Questions on GNU Smalltalk
Reply-To: aa421@Freenet.carleton.ca (Michael Wilson)
Organization: The National Capital Freenet
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:17:45 GMT


In a previous article, wwm@ef5003.efhd.ford.com (Bill Meahan) says:

>
>What does your m-system.h look like?  What other hacking did you do?
>Do you have diffs? (a 3b1 IS SYSV.2 with 2.5 meg/process - yours sounds
>a lot like a Convergent MiniFrame which is the 3b1's first cousin).
Is it that obvious? Actually, it's a CT "MightyFrame" (Which always
seemed like slightly excessive nomenclature to me).

I don't have the source here right now so I can't tell you exactly
what I did. Basically, I found the places in the header files where
the memory space size and number of oop constants were defined,
replaced them with globals, and bashed the cline parsing routine to
let me set them. It was pretty cludgy. 

>I also am looking at "little smalltalk" as an alternative on my 3b1
>since my point in bringing ST up is self-education, not developing the
>next "killer app" for the hottest platform in town.  And since a 3b1
>(not a PC) is what I happen to own at home ....
Ok. I have both little st and gnu running on the CT. Little ST is faster,
but has some significant limitations (no meta-classes, defective blocks,
deviant syntax, non-standard class library). For your purpose I'd have 
to recommend gnu.

The biggest problem with gnu is that they chose to use a simple
Baker two-space garbage collector. This scheme wastes HALF OF YOUR
AVAILABLE MEMORY at any given moment. If they had used a scavenging
collector with two small new spaces and separate mark-sweeped old
spaces like both PPS and Digitalk use, there would be ample space in
a 2.5Meg partition. 
-- 
Michael Grant Wilson (McQ)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: zink@inf-wiss.ivp.uni-konstanz.de (Volker Zink)
Subject: A Question
Organization: Information Science, Univ. of Konstanz D-W-7750 Konstanz, Germany
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:19:55 GMT


	Hello,

i work with st80 4.0 . Recently i used Sets to store
some information. I got an error because i thought,
that when i "add:" an element to the set, the new
set would be returned, but the element was returned.
So i had to rewrite my code (it got longer), and wonder
if this behaviour is intended. What are you
thinking of it?

Bye...
	Volker

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Volker Zink                Email:  zink@inf-wiss.ivp.uni-konstanz.de
Universitaet Konstanz
Germany
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Volker Zink                Email:  zink@inf-wiss.ivp.uni-konstanz.de
Universitaet Konstanz
Germany
From: js@montaigne.lif.icnet.uk (Jack Shirazi <js@biu.icnet.uk>)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: Inheritance of Smalltalk
Date: 27 Jan 1993 14:29:18 -0000
Organization: Imperial Cancer Research Fund
NNTP-Posting-Host: montaigne.lif.icnet.uk

In article <1993Jan26.150808.62839@qut.edu.au> bub@qut.edu.au writes:
>Is any one there can tell me if Smalltalk/v windows has the capacity of
>multiple inheritance? What about ParcPlace's Smalltalk in windows?

As far as I know, no implementation of smalltalk has proper multiple
inheritance (you can always reimplement doesNotUnderstand: to send
the message on to one of the instance variables for a kind of multiple
inheritance). I remember reading that several groups have looked at
implementing multiple inheritance in the image, but all have given up
after finding that the effort wasn't worth it. Personally, I think it
would be a useful addition to Smalltalk, but having thought about ways
of implementing it, I realize that it would take more effort than I have
available. Anyone out there trying?
-- 
       Jack               js@biu.icnet.uk
                         
If you only have a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.
                -- Maslow
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: tomb@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com (Thomas Burns)
Subject: Re: SmallTalk Products Recommendation
Organization: Texas Instruments Manufacturing Technology Center
	<1993Jan22.102237.14258@ajk.tele.fi>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:09:35 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.102237.14258@ajk.tele.fi> panu@ajk.tele.fi (Panu Viljamaa) writes:

   > We are currently in search of PC (Windows) and Mac based 
   > (Smalltalk)

	   We worked with both ObjectWorks (ParcPlace) &
    Smalltalk-V (Digitalk). Unfortunately they seem
    to be the only major players. Their systems
    (= the libraries) are not as compatible with each
    other as you would like. More or less you have to
    choose one and stick to it.  

I take issue here.  We are using V/286 and OTI's V/Embedded along with
St80 for a production machine control system.  We have two distinct
flavors of the system where in one the machine control is in V and the
UI in 80, and the other has both machine control and UI coded in an
St80 environment.  The V and 80 machine control images use the same
classes with minor subclassing to define specific behavior appropriate
for each system (NOT each VM).

To top it all off, we use our own remote object communications package
and object storage/retrieval system to actively communicate between
the V and 80 systems.  Obviously, for such communication to be valid
then there must be a high degree of commonality between the systems or
an object built in ST/V (for example) will have problems being
reconstructed in St80 due to any number of reasons including instance
variable reordering or different numbers of inst vars in each image.

There are two distinct points where ST/V and St80 are at odds:
- GUI (MVC vs. MPD)
- Exception handling (and V's native lack of it)

If your code is highly GUI dependent then you might be in trouble.
From what I understand you're even in trouble between different V
platforms.  It should be noted that with a great deal of care and
careful subclassing, V and 80 code can be made very similar even in
the GUI world - if you create panes in each platform that subclass
from the native panes.  These 'translator' panes would provide a
common interface, although it would probably pretty much preclude the
use of a 'View' in St80, not to mention panes more complex than the
standard list and text panes.

We are using ENVY from OTI which allows porting between code databases
(one for V and one for 80) and handles expressions to load 80-specific
or V-specific code as appropriate for the cases where divergence is
necessary.  We did have to implement some missing protocols on each of
the platforms to get true commonality.  Things like
Character>>asLowerCase in V and #asLowercase in 80, or in V it's a
MetaClass and 80 has a Metaclass.

As far as the pros and cons of each platform, I would generally agree.
The only additional comment I would make is that if you are a student
you can get St80 relatively cheaply.

tom

--
Tom Burns     			Domain:    tomb@spdc.ti.com
Texas Instruments		TI MSG:    THOS
P.O. Box 655012, M/S 463 	Voice:	   (214) 995-9707
Dallas, TX   75265

Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: hoppie@kub.nl (Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers)
Subject: Re: Questions on GNU Smalltalk
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 08:16:05 GMT
Organization: Tilburg University, Tilburg, The Netherlands

In article <1993Jan21.182010.8555@freenet.carleton.ca>, aa421@Freenet.carleton.ca (Michael Wilson) writes:
|> 
|> In a previous article, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) says:
|> >Considering that trying to run it on a Sparc with 8 Meg of memory returns
|> >the error "Not enough memory", I can't imagine it ever running on the 3B1.

Hey, my Sparc HAS 8 MB of memory and while running OpenWindows I can perfectly use
GNU Smalltalk 1.1.1 (although it is slow, just like anything is slow in 8 MB).

Jeroen
-- 
Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers, research engineer at     |  Stop connecting computers;
Infolab, Tilburg University, The Netherlands    |  start connecting people!
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: hasko@heeg.de (Hasko Heinecke)
Subject: Re: get/set behaviour (was: >>Voluntary method typing)
Organization: Georg Heeg Objektorientierte Systeme, Dortmund, FRG
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:29:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.001832.10017@cs.uow.edu.au> humm@cs.uow.edu.au (Bernhard G Humm) writes:
>
>hasko@heeg.de writes:
>
>In article <1993Jan25.070651.2105@cs.uow.edu.au> humm@cs.uow.edu.au (Bernhard G >Humm) writes:
>>>>>Of course, this only applies to database-type objects which just have
>>>>>get/set behaviour, but this seems quite a significant subset.
>>>
>>>Are there really any other cases in a pure OO language?
>>
>>Are there really _such_ cases in a pure OO project?
>
>In Smalltalk, objects have named or indexed instance variables. They can be
> assigned references to other objects and the values of those variables
> represent the internal state of the object (only simple types like numbers
> or characters don't have instance variables and still have values; probably
> they had better been separated from objects like e.g. in Eiffel). The only
> way you can change the internal state of an object is assigning another value
> to one of its variables. Reading the value of such a variable gives you the
> reference to another object which allows you to do the same things (assign
> variables or read them). Now you tell me the difference between ``database-type
> objects'' and Smalltalk objects...

I didn't talk about Smalltalk in particular (but then, I was... :-) ). Anyway,
in an object-oriented way of thinking, you don't speak of modifying instance
variables but of modifying states. Wether those states are implemented using
one or more of no instance variables at all is a design issue, and in a
perfect world you wouldn't know even the names of the instance variables. Why
bother? That's what member functions/messages are for.

The problem is: I can't quite explain the difference between database-type
objects and Smalltalk objects. Maybe, it's just that the words "database-type
objects" imply a certain notion of objects that I don't share, not a real
technical difference. Maybe, it's that we prefer different analysis methods.
Maybe, you are talking about implementation, and I'm talking about analysis
or design. I don't know. All I know is that I don't like the word "database
type objects." N. Wirth said in one lecture about Oberon, object-orientation
is just hierarchical records and procedure variables. In a way, he is right,
but then, he's not. :-)

Hasko



-- 
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Hasko Heinecke @ Georg Heeg Objektorientierte Systeme |
| I _never_ mean what I say - and nobody else does...   |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: looi@ssfarch.attmail.com (Wan Looi)
Subject: FAQ wanted
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:09:04 GMT
Organization: DHL Worldwide Express, Redwood City, Calif., USA


Hi,

I'm new to this group and would appreciate if anyone
can point me where I can obtain the FAQ (if it exists)
for this group.

Thanks!

-looi

-- 
Systems Arch., DHL Airways, Inc., 333 Twin Dolphin Dr, Redwood City, CA 94065
INET: looi@ssfarch.attmail.com  UUNET: uunet!ssfarch!looi
VOICE: (415) 802-4584	FAX: (415) 593-1689

Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: aa421@Freenet.carleton.ca (Michael Wilson)
Subject: Re: Questions on GNU Smalltalk
Reply-To: aa421@Freenet.carleton.ca (Michael Wilson)
Organization: The National Capital Freenet
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:20:52 GMT


In a previous article, liblit@cs.psu.edu (Benjamin R. Liblit) says:
>I have a different angle on this than you do.  As an unfunded
>undergraduate CS student, benchmarks are measured in units of money,
>not time.  And according to *my* test suite, Gnu Smalltalk blows the
>others away, to the tune of multiple hundreds of hard-earned dollars.
I understand. We all have different constraints. Just out of curiosity,
what have you been doing with gnu st?

McQ
-- 
Michael Grant Wilson (McQ)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: konnbt@eua.ericsson.se (Niklas Bjornerstedt)
Subject: More on ExternalInterface in ST80
Reply-To: konnbt@eua.ericsson.se
Organization: Enator Functional Systems, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:07:13 GMT

Last week I posted some info on a bug I found in the ExternalInterface.
Unfortunately the fix I proposed seems to work less than well...
The problem is that the image is not in a very consistent state when
ExternalInterface receives the #earlySystemInstallation message. 

So instead of risking things at that point I now take care of things
when ExternalInterface a little later receives #returnFromSnapshot. 

Instead of posting more code, those who are interested in this problem can 
email me and I will send my (current :-) ) solution. Judging from the
tremendous response my first posting generated I figure this wont be to
much of a burden...

_____________________________

Niklas Bjornerstedt
Enator Functional Systems
Email: konnbt@eua.ericsson.se
From: dgeary@sierra.com (David Geary)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: Voluntary method typing in ST80
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:35:22 GMT
Organization: Sierra Geophysics,  Kirkland WA

In article <timp.727190147@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU> timp@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Tim Posney) writes:
>
>The value of type checking (IMHO) is to ensure that certain classes of errors
>cannot occur. We have a large smalltalk system that has been in production for

  Actually, the major benefit of type checking is performance.  If a message
can be bound statically, the overhead of dynamic binding can be avoided.

>several years now, and it is not rare to see Object does not understand errors
>simply becuase the wrong type of argument has been passed. However I would

  Do you see 'Object does not understand' during development, or do these
occur in the production code?

>not take on strong typing eagerly since it would destroy much of the prototyping
>value that you get in smalltalk.
>
 
  Compilation destroys much of the prototyping value that you get in Smalltalk.

-- 
David Geary           	|   Seattle - America's most attractive city ... 
Sierra Geophysics	|	
dgeary@sierra.com	|   to the jetstream ;-(