HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mitchell@oac3.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Philip Mitchell)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.environment,sci.misc
Subject: Re: BOOM! yet another hurricane-killing idea
Keywords: nuclear hurricane control
Date: 26 Aug 1992 17:35:17 GMT
Followup-To: sci.geo.meteorology
Distribution: usa
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1992Aug26.150612.11714@alw.nih.gov> singley@helix.nih.gov (Erick D. Singley) writes:
>Put in whatever safties you want, orbit and beam down where no one ever goes
>and SOEMONE WILL STILL LOBBY IT DOWN. (oh, you're heating the ocean.. poor fish
>poor birds flying by.  MY state wouldn't be able to contribute any parts. Think
>of another idea that will)
>

Lord knows we wouldn't want to worry about the ocean or fish or stuff like 
that.  What possible impact could it have on Americans and the Standard Of
Living?  ;-)

As far as weather control/modification goes, my guess (and this is 
COMPLETELY guesswork) would be that by the time something of the magnitude
of a hurricane got going, it would take an ENORMOUS amount of energy to 
impact it.  You'd probably be better off trying to make smaller changes
in other places before the storm really got going.  I seem to recall that
chaos theory indicates that complicated systems (like the weather) are 
very difficult to predict, and might be even more so to control.

A side issue would be:  If reducing hurricanes meant increasing the number
of competing tropical storms, would the trade off be acceptable?  Or would
the climactic changes be more devastating than the hurricanes?  (The
plant and animal life being adapted to one set of conditions and suddenly 
being subjected to others.)  

But there I go worrying about things that aren't human again...


-- 

   Phil Mitchell                                 Office of Academic Computing
   UT Health Science Center          6431 Fannin MSB 4.022, Houston, TX 77030
   voice: (713) 794-1189              internet: mitchell@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu
From: rovero@oc.nps.navy.mil (Josh Rovero)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Eye of the Hurricane
Date: 26 Aug 92 17:12:31 GMT
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA

Pass up a ride on a "Hurricane Hunter" or weather recon aircraft?

No self-respecting meteorologist would do such a thing!  As recently as
10 years ago it was standard procedure for all forecasters at the
Joint Typhoon Warning Center/Navy Oceanography Command Center in Guam
to get a check ride in the Hercules flown by the 51st Weather Recon Sqdn.
(I got mine on a purely investigatory flight into an area of convection;
others got to go into depressions and tropical storms).

I think the 51st is gone though; now they rely on satellites.

-- 
Josh Rovero   (rovero@oc.nps.navy.mil) | or Internet 5346p@cc.nps.navy.mil 
Department of Oceanography, Code OC/Rv |      Bitnet 5346p@NAVPGS 
Naval Postgraduate School              |              
Monterey, CA  93943   (408) 646-2084   |
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.optics
From: haferman@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu (Jeff Haferman)
Subject: Question regarding POLARIZATION
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:49:29 GMT

I am reproducing a model which calculates brightness temperatures
at a given altitude and viewing angle in a prescribed atmosphere.

The general method I am using is to solve the radiative transfer
equation based on absorption and scattering characteristics of
an atmosphere (computed using Mie Theory, via Bohren and Huffman),
and prescribed boundary conditions.

Now, suppose that I wish to simulate a radiometer which observes
vertically (or horizontally) polarized radiation.  What do I need
to do? (i.e. I have the solution to the transfer equation at the location
and pointing in the direction of the sensor, but my problem is relating 
this quantity of energy to the quantity that the radiometer actually 
observes).

I'm beginning to tread into unfamiliar territory here.  I can
compute the Stokes parameters for a given scatterer, and therefore
I can compute the degree of polarization for a given scattering angle.
But how do I calculate the horizontally (or vertically) polarized
component of the brightness temperature?

Any help, advice, or ideas will be most welcome!  

Jeff Haferman

Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: dean@coconut.rsmas.miami.edu (dean)
Subject: RE: RSMAS is back in business
Organization: University of Miami/RSMAS
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 19:02:28 GMT

Yes, it's true.  The yacht that landed in the middle
of Rickenbacker Causeway belongs to the U.M.  It
was donated.  Before the storm it was at RSMAS, how it
arrived upon the middle of the Causeway has yet to be
determined. 
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: david.carlson@almac.co.uk
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: particle drift
Date: 30 Aug 92 18:32:13 GMT
Distribution: sci
Organization: ALMAC BBS Ltd

I have tried twice before to get some response to this querie but so
far without luck.  Therefore I shall try and try again.  There is some
suspicion that messages are being lost, so if anyone has posted a reply
my thanks but I haven't got it.  Sorry to add to traffic by repeating
postings but I do need to gain some understanding.

Please respond to the conference or to myself via U-PRIVATE; either will
do.  Also please could at least one kind soul acknowledge that this has
got through?

My question follows.  I am involved in environmental monitoring.  We 
monitor background radiation and acid rain events.  We have noticed a
striking correlation between gamma peaks during rainfall and high acid
rain events.

We want to develop our understaning of how pollution moves over the
Earth. How can we determine the source of particulate contamination?
I know that there are patterns to pollution from various nuclear events 
but we suspect that what we are seeing is from other sources.

We have considered buying a satellite receiver but we are not sure whether
or not this will actually be of any real use.

We know nothing about cloud dynamics so am unaware how far particles may 
travel before being deposited.  We therefore don't know if what we are 
seeing is coming from a great distance or being swept before from 
relativley short distances.  Is there a way meteorologically to determine
this?  

-<--David--N.Yorks--UK-->-
---
 ~ DeLuxe} 1.25 #12080 ~ Easier to beg forgiveness than to seek permission.
--
ALMAC BBS Ltd. 0324-665371
Dos based USENET access,  call for details!
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: syskdg@bigbrd.agchem.redwater.iol.ca (Ken Gehring)
Subject: Calculation Of Tide Tables
Organization: Imperial Oil Limited
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:27:20 GMT

   First of all, please accept my apologies if this is a dumb or impossible
question or the wrong place to ask. 
   I am looking for information, formulas or a PC based computer program that
will calculate tide tables. Ideally, what I would like to be able to do is
input a geographic location and generate a graph of the changing tide for the
day (by minute) or week (by 5 to 10 minute increments) or by the month (by 10 
to 15 minute increments).
   Is this possible to do?
   Any information, or potential leads to information would be appreciated.
   Responses to this group or by email gratefully accepted.


syskdg@bigbrd.agchem.redwater.iol.ca
Ken Gehring                        |
Imperial Oil Chemicals Division    |     If I had the faintest idea as to
Agricultural Chemicals  Complex    |     what I was doing, I wouldn't be here
Redwater, Alberta Canada           |

-- 

syskdg@bigbrd.agchem.redwater.iol.ca
Ken Gehring                        |
Imperial Oil LTD.                  |     If I had the faintest idea as to
Chemicals Division                 |     what I was doing, I wouldn't be here
Agricultural Chemicals Complex     |
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.environment
From: packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer)
Subject: Exploiting instability (was Re: Atmospheric energy levels)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Dept. of Independence
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 01:45:00 GMT

In article <dhalliwe.715028134@muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca>, userDHAL@mts.ucs.UAlberta.CA (David Halliwell) writes...
>    Using energy as a method of modifying hurricanes or weather assumes
>that we have a source of energy which is large enough to have an effect
>in comparison to the energy of the storm.


Most of the reponses to my query about dissipating a hurricane have
been in this vein, though a couple of people did realize I was
suggesting not directly attacking a hurricane but rather =exploiting
instability= elsewhere to create a sapper storm, analagous to using a
"backfire" to fight a forest fire.

I envision some way of 1) detecting an incipient low pressure area
and 2) amplifying it by seeding or some other technology, perhaps one
not yet invented. 

At any rate, I hope it doesn't come about soon -- I'd like to
witness a hurricane before they're outlawed. From other postings
here, I know I'm in congenial company -- in sci.geo.meteorology
if not sci environment :-) -- given the folks who said they would
sacrifice their firstborn or signifcant body parts to be able to
fly into a hurricane.
From: joeb@atmos.washington.edu (Joe Barsugli)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Meteo book advice for lost physicist?
Date: 28 Aug 92 05:45:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: eos1.JOEB.92Aug27214535
Organization: Dept. of Atmospheric Sciences, University of Washington

In article <1992Aug28.002716.14296@meteor.wisc.edu> stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu (Stephen Jascourt) writes:

   In article <ORLOFF.92Aug27120020@surya9.cern.ch> orloff@surya9.cern.ch (Jean Orloff) writes:
   >I would like to have a better QUANTITATIVE understanding of climatic
   >and micro-climatic phenomena (eg, the celebrated foehn effect,
   >frontogenesis, ascending currents, inversions etc...).
   >
   >However, the books I have seen so far remain vague and unsatisfactory for a
   >physicist like me:
   >*	Jean Orloff		*	e-mail: ORLOFF@dxcern.cern.ch	*

 >  The single best atmosphere or ocean (it has both) dynamics book for a
 >  physicist is Atmosphere-Ocean Dynamics by Adrian Gill.
 

I agree that "Gill" is an excellent book, but I would also suggest
Holton's Introduction to Dynamic Meteorology.  This book takes the
quantitative approach as well, but tends to concentrate on more
idealized, and hence simpler problems.  In addition, I find the
explanations and notation easier to understand on first reading than
Gill.  

Joe Barsugli (joeb@atmos.washington.edu)
From: calvins@suzies.Eng.Sun.COM (Christopher Klein)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Eye of the Hurricane
Date: 26 Aug 92 17:24:35 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: suzies

In article <1992Aug25.200832.5667@bmerh85.bnr.ca> mkfeil@bcrki9.bnr.ca (Max Feil) writes:
>It was also mentioned that no hurricane tracking aircraft has been lost
>in action since 1955. Still, I think I'd pass up a ride if offered.
>
>How about you?
>
I'd sacrifice my firstborn to be on one.  

Any offers?

`Chris


--
Christopher Klein   (415) 336-5959      |     Cacophony & Dyspepsia    |
calvins@suzies.Eng.Sun.Com              |             - * -            |
My comments are entirely my own, sheesh!|      Software Engineers      |
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: barrk@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (BARR KEITH STABLER)
Subject: Re: Eye of the Hurricane
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 02:39:13 GMT

In article <1992Aug29.191013.10152@anasazi.com> john@anasazi.com writes:
>Keywords: 
>
>]Jack Brindle writes
>]I think it was in Hugo (or perhaps Gilbert) that
>]an C-130 encountered a *9g* updraft. I don't think a P3 would
>]survive that.
>
>I have trouble believing that assertion. A P-3 is a smaller airframe
>with the same engines and electronics suite as a C-130. I would be
>surprised if a C-130 is more durable (spoken as a former P-3
>crewman who went through Typhoone Dora).

I agree with John.  When flying through turbulence, the pilot will slow down
the aircraft to an airspeed known as maneuvering speed.  When the aircraft is
below this airspeed the wing will stall before the loading caused by a gust
exceeds the structural limitations.  Therefore, in theory, even a C-152 could
handle a hurricane (although only a complete moron would try it :^) ).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keith Barr             | What is Silver Nitrate?   |    Aerospace Engineer
-----------------------|                           |-------------------------
Commercial Pilot/Inst. | Rental fee on the Lone    | barrk@tramp.colorado.edu  
Single & Multi/IGI     | Ranger's horse after dark |       barr@ncar.ucar.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kjun@typhoon.atmos.colostate.edu (Pat Fitzpatrick)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: How do they "bogus" hurricanes into the NGM and other models?
Date: 24 Aug 92 03:05:56 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University -- Atmos Sci

After glancing at the NGM forecast from 00Z Monday (12 hr forecast)
to 12Z Tuesday (48 hr forecast), I noticed that the model "washes out"
Hurricane Andrew with time. Of course, this is no surprise since the NGM
"boguses in" some kind of Rankine vortex during initialization that
is supposed to represent the hurricane. Presumably, since the NGM doesn't
properly represent the physics for tropical systems like hurricanes, it
fades out in the NGM model which relies on baroclinic processes (if this
is an incorrect interpretation, tell me --  this group could use some
real meteorology discussion, and I don't mind being corrected)

My real question, however, is "How is this bogusing procedure done in models
currently?" I understand there have been some changes recently. The more
detailed the answer, the better."

Pat Fitzpatrick
From: jamesf@public.BTR.COM (James G. Franklin  jamesf@btr.com)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Maples are yellow in Denver
Keywords: autumn trees color early?
Date: 3 Sep 92 04:18:03 GMT
Organization: BTR Public Access UNIX, MtnView CA. Contact: Customer Service cs@BTR.COM

In article <26320@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM> wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Bruce Watson) writes:
>
>I don't know if this is early or not. I think it is. I don't remember
>any trees yellowing this early. Usually it starts after Labor Day.

My sister, on Long Island, NY, says some trees are starting to turn 
already. A bit bizarre, I think.

jim

-- 
*   Jim Franklin * jamesf@btr.com OR {decwrl,mips,fernwood}!btr!jamesf      *
* Yamama 650 Maxim           | "I'd like a large Ducati, with extra 'g's."  * 
* Triumph 650 (slalom champ) | "Would you like that delivered?"             * 
* DoD #469          KotP(un) | "No, I'll come pick it up."                  * 
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.environment
From: makrisna@convex1.tcs.tulane.edu (Krishna Achuta Rao)
Subject: Re: sea surface elevation beneath a hurricane
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-19498]: convex1.tcs.tulane.edu
Keywords: hurricane, surface, elevation, satellite, altimetry
Organization: Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 20:29:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug29.032951.17627@morrow.stanford.edu> cleavy@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Cleavy McKnight) writes:
>
>   What is the sea surface elevation beneath a hurricane?  Is it high,
>   because of low atmospheric pressure? Is the change measurable? Have such
>   measurements been recorded by satellite altimetry?  Anybody know
>   a good reference?  Thanks!

     Yes, the sea surface is raised in the low pressure area. I am not sure
     about any references, but the local newspaper (The Times Picayune) had
     mentioned upto 20 feet as the elevation of the surface above tide level
     This moves with the low pressure and creates a "storm surge".This is 
     very important especially for coastal areas in Louisiana which are 
     easily submerged by the resulting wave. 
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Krishna Achuta Rao, Graduate Student, Mechanical Engg., Tulane University  +
+That's the whole problem with science. You've got a bunch of empiricists    +
+trying to describe things of unimaginable wonder.  -Calvin & Hobbes         +
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Andrew computes
Date: 1 Sep 92 16:45:24 GMT
Organization: NIST

The Andrew computes (date, position, and strength) are as follows:

0392081512  95N 279W  25 
0392081518  97N 288W  25 
0392081600  97N 300W  25 
0392081606  99N 313W  30 
0392081612 104N 335W  30 
0392081618 110N 355W  30 
0392081700 110N 370W  25 
0392081706 113N 393W  30 
0392081712 123N 423W  35 
0392081718 132N 443W  40 
0392081800 139N 462W  45 
0392081806 140N 481W  45 
0392081812 150N 502W  45 
0392081818 156N 520W  45 
0392081900 163N 537W  45
0392081906 172N 553W  45
0392081912 180N 570W  40
0392081918 188N 587W  45
0392082000 197N 592W  45
0392082006 206N 602W  40
0392082012 210N 610W  40
0392082018 220N 620W  40
0392082100 233N 626W  45
0392082106 240N 633W  45
0392082112 244N 642W  50
0392082118 249N 649W  50
0392082200 253N 660W  55
0392082206 256N 674W  60
0392082212 259N 683W  80
0392082218 259N 697W  85
0392082300 256N 711W  90
0392082306 255N 726W 105
0392082312 254N 742W 110
0392082318 254N 757W 130
0392082318 254N 757W 130
0392082400 254N 773W 125
0392082406 254N 793W 120
0392082412 255N 815W 120
0392082418 257N 831W 120
0392082418 257N 831W 120
0392082500 261N 851W 120
0392082506 266N 868W 120
0392082512 273N 884W 120
0392082518 278N 898W 120
0392082600 286N 906W 120
0392082606 293N 914W 110
0392082612 301N 917W 100
0392082618 309N 916W  50 
0392082700 313N 912W  30 
0392082706 319N 906W  30 
0392082712 329N 898W  30 


       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: pgravel@nap.amoco.com (Philip L. Gravel)
Subject: Re: Atlantic hurricane names
Reply-To: pgravel@nap.amoco.com (Philip L. Gravel)
Organization: Amoco Corporation
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:43:01 GMT

In article <BtK0CG.EFL@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu 
(Harold_Brooks) writes:
 
> Here's the six-year list of names for Atlantic hurricanes.  Names
> are agreed upon by nations involved during international meetings
> of the World Meterological Organization.  The National Hurricane
> Center names any tropical disturbance that reaches tropical 
> storm status.  (Sorry for my earlier mistake about 1986 Andrew.)
 
Question:  Are the names of particularily devastating hurricanes (eg, Hugo, 
Camile) retired so that we don't have two memorable events of the same name?


Phil

-----
Philip L. Gravel                      Internet: pgravel@nap.amoco.com
Amoco Corporation, Chicago, IL        Phone:    (312)856-3553
----------
These opinions aren't worth the paper they're written on and
certainly don't reflect those of my employer.
Xref: sparky sci.geo.meteorology:2872 sci.environment:10867 sci.misc:1505
From: cfhammer@guvax.georgetown.edu
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.environment,sci.misc
Subject: BOOM! yet another hurricane-killing idea
Summary: limited nuclear testing
Keywords: nuclear hurricane control
Date: 26 Aug 92 13:16:35 GMT
Organization: Georgetown University

In article <25AUG199222531905@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov>,
    packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer) writes:

> Hurricane Andrew's strength was apparently reduced by
> another storm that interacted with it for a while.
 
> In view of what such a competing storm could do to reduce
> the force of a hurricane, will it ever be feasible to
> manufacture a low-pressure area to do this?
> If so, how would it most likely be done?

how about using the thermals generated in nuclear explosions?
this way we are both limiting and making use of our nuclear
testing. from what i understand, we are heading towards smaller
and cleaner (read: environmentally safe) bombs . . . ;)

actually, charles has an interesting idea.

how about this as a plan (albeit a far out, lack-of-caffein
induced one - still on my first cup):

1. put up orbiting solar reflectors/concentrators. intensity
   does not have to be high - just directable . . .

2. build large black teflon floating pallets. remote control.
   either on the water or airborne (with an anchoring system).

3. target weather systems early and position the pallets on
   the fringe.

4. heat the pallets using solar energy directed from the
   orbiting reflectors/concentrators. rate of heating will
   not be rapid (there will be factors cutting down the
   efficiency), but it will be constant and "clean".

this does not take into account disturbing the global
weather patterns or the ecology of fried fish. but
assuming one builds large enough pallets (or airborne
ones) and has a fairly good targeting system, one can
avoid the latter.

just an idea, folks. any comments?

-ming

.sig normally under destruction
but the following disclaimers hold:
i speak for no one but myself.
i am not a meteorologist, ecologist, nor engineer.
i am merely a chemist, and a tenured grad student at that.
i was kidding about the nuclear thing (really).  ;)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: zawr02@hou.amoco.com (Andrew W. Robinson)
Subject: Hurricane Updates?
Keywords:  hurricane, updates, information
Reply-To: zawr02@hou.amoco.com
Organization: Amoco
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 13:59:15 GMT

Hi,

Does anyone know if the hurricane updates from the Hurricane Center are 
available electronically?  Any of the popular methods would work, email, 
anonymous ftp, or even here on USENET.  Thanks in advance!
---

Andrew Robinson
--------------------------------------------------------------
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable creature, since
it enables one to find or make a reason for everything one has
a mind to do. - Benjamin Franklin
From: gasser@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Nathan Gasser ><>  )
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Access to pre-Monday weather gifs?
Date: 26 Aug 92 06:49:49 GMT


Hi all,

	I'm planning to make an Andrew animation out of the
weather gifs at the uiuc site.  When I got the idea, the earliest
gif at the site was "CI082321.GIF," ie. late Sunday. Is there any
chance I could download images before then?  Did anyone snatch
them as soon as Andrew appeared within the North America range
of the CI* gifs?  Does the U of I keep images further back that
I could get upon request?  Any info appreciated.

	While I'm at it, is there any interest in having my Andrew movie?
It will be a QuickTime animation, to be run on the Macintosh.
I'll upload it to some Mac archive in the next few days, if all goes
well.  I would like it to be as complete as possible, so I'll keep
adding to it until Andrew dissipates or leaves North America.  I'd
also like those previous images.


--

Nathan Gasser       ><>         
gasser@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
From: cfhammer@guvax.georgetown.edu
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: BOOM! yet another hurricane-killing idea
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:46:36 -0400
Distribution: na,world
Organization: Georgetown University


In article <1992Aug26.172044.12218@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca>,
      sherwood@fenris.space.ualberta.ca (Sherwood Botsford) writes:
 
> Interesting thread.

morbid thoughts come to mind reading the morning news before
the first cup of coffee sets in . . .

> But wouldn't either pumping energy by mirrors or bombs just  
> evaporate more water, pumping energy into the hurricane.

the original idea was to create thermals _outside_ of the
hurricane. it was observed that the presence of another
storm system lessened the primary. check the article:
<25AUG199222531905@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov> by packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov

and i was kidding about the nukes. really. check the disclaimer.

ming
.sig under destruction
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology