From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: another poem
Date: 29 Sep 92 13:50:51 GMT
Reply-To: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Organization: Ailanthus Project

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

> In article <1992Sep27.224750.1039@ncsu.edu> barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.ed
> >In article <1992Sep27.213907.28694@ncsu.edu> blchapma@eos.ncsu.edu (B
> >>
> >>They
> >>still think I'm coming on to them just because I nod my head in thei
> >>direction when they ask me the time of day.  I've outright told men
> >>to get lost and that I'm not interested.  (Men who I've never had
> >>any sort of intimate relationship with).  Does it work?  NO!!!! They
> >>don't listen.  Oh gee whiz, I must be lying to them.  I can't really
> >>be serious.  GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  NO MEANS NO, DAMMIT!
>
> Well, you just COULDN'T be turning down such a marvelous piece of
> masculine virility, now could you?  Hey, honey, lookit my new wrist
> calculator . . .
>
*chuckle*  sounds like a lot of my friends in high school, except that
they DID take me seriously, and they DID respect my intelligence, and
they DID allow me to play make characters.  why?  because they treated
me like i was totally sexless!  argh!  not KNOWING i was a budding baby
butch at the time, i found this quite frustrating, cos i wanted a
boyfriedn like everyone else had!  and i wanted to be loved and admired
and respected and cherished, and how am i ever gonna get that if the
boys won'r play along?

gaming conventions were my salvation.  at the first one i went to, i
was the only teenaged girl there.  wheeee!  BOY did i get a lot of
attention!  i LOVED it!  of course, as a kid, i was still quite cynical
and figured out pretty quickly that bieng the only girl tehre must have
had something to do with it.  in retrospect, the fact that i was quite
cute back when probably helped too...  i met my first boyfriend at the
first MaineCon i ever went to, and started seeing him after the second.
 broke up with him to date someoen from the gaming group at school,
then met my third boyfriend at the next mainecon i went to.

steve and david (BFs #1 and #3) were probably the best thinsg taht ever
happened to me.  they both thought i was beautiful, sexy, enchanting,
wonderful, and they loved me - AND they took me seriously as an
intelligent person and respected me!  wow!  it was incredible.  i
remember them fondly to this day, and in fact david and i remain
friends.  granted one shouldn't derive one's self-esteem from others,
but sometimes having someone know you, understand where you are coming
from, and still think you are OK, and even beyond that, wonderful, can
be a very healing thing.

 take women seriously, especi
> >when it comes to sexual matters.  The attitude you describe is perhap
> >most infuriating to encounter.
>
> And the most common.  The one line that men pull out that pisses me of
> the most is, "Aw, come on . . . " whenever you say no.  These three
> simple words will reduce me to utter anger and peevishness.  I said NO
> you microcephalic jackass, now go get on someone else's nerves.  "Aw,
> come on . . . "  Them's fightin' words!
>
"aw, come on..."  ugh.  major geekiousity alert!  guys who say that
drive me absolutely ballistic!  luckily, no adult male i have ever met
used that phrase.  i've found staring deeply into someone's eyes and
saying "i'm a lesbian," is very effective. i've recommended this
approach to straight women before.

> >Seeing your, Janis's, and Ailsa'a posting about what it's like to be
> >has really helped me.  I haven't talked much about feelings like this
> >or often when I did I wasn't taken seriously.  Or I've been called a
> >feminist.
>
> Barclay, you're a militant femininst if you act in the slightest way
> different from the plastoids femmes in beer commercials.
>
i'm directing a friend of mine who hates militant femininists to read
this thread...  maybe he'll understand.

> >People often say "militant feminist" as if we should be ashamed for
> >feeling passionate about experiencing and delighting in our femalenes
>
> One very early feminist (Rebecca West, I think the name was) said
> something like -- there IS an exact quote -- "I don't really know if I
> a feminist or not.  I just know that everyone calls me a feminist when
> express opinions that distinguish me from a prostitute, or a doormat."
>
i love that quote!  i want t t-shirt of it!  B)

> >>Whew!  That felt much better.  Sometimes it feels good to ramble.
> >
> >I like rambling, too.
>
> And ain't it wonderful when you find out that other people have the sa
> stuff to ramble about as you?  When all your life you've been seeing
> things that other people told you weren't there, you start doubting
> yourself.  I think that intelligent women may have some of the same
> problems as abused children and children who grew up in households tha
> had something to hide.
>
how about if you are an intelligent woman, AND an abused child AND gay?
triple whammy!

> "Mom, Daddy's drunk!"  "No, dear, he's just resting.  Why do you alway
> have to say that in front of company?"
>
> "Hey, that was my idea!"  "No, it wasn't.  Geez, what're you getting s
> upset about?  Is your period starting or sumthin?"
>
"You know, girls are a lot prettier than boys.  I like girls a lot
better."  "You're just saying that now, dear.  Wait until you get a
little older - you'll change your mind!"

> In both cases, you've been hearing voices in your head all your life a
> been told that they're not really there, and no one else hears them, a
> what's wrong with YOU anyway?
>
> Think of it -- recovery for having been born a woman . . .
>
i think it's a good way of looking at it, actually.  the process of
making a girl into a woman is not unlike that of breaking a horse.

                                        -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                    ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
Desire.  The weight of.  The weight of our              ________
desire.  Then laugh, cry, but laugh             Silence \      / Action
more than you cry, and when you hold               =     \    /    =
the world in your hands, love Her.               Death    \  /    Life
                     - Alma Luz Villanueva                 \/