From: parker@ehsn17.cen.uiuc.edu (Robert S. Parker)
Subject: Re: Spoken Like a True ProLifer
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 23:39:59 GMT

vengeanc@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu () writes:

>hsims@vax.clarku.edu writes:

>>In a previous article, vengeanc@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu wrote:
>>>

>I don't think you understand... you got YOURSELF pregnant.  I'm simply
>forcing you NOT to murder the helpess, unwilling victim of your hormonal
>lack of control.  I'm not forcing you to DO anything you haven't already done.
>You phrase that way to bend the issue into the wrong light.  That's not a 
>fetus.  If you would like, I can send you several hundred pages documenting
>why that is a human baby.  I don't think it would do any good, however,
>so my typing it would be a waste of my time.  

Maybe this guy is ignorant of medical definitions?  A "fetus" is "The
individual unborn organism carried within the womb in the later stages of its
development" according to Funk & Wagnalls Standard Desk Dictionary.

>>>Why do you insist on punishing the innocent for the crimes of the uncaring
>>                                                     ^^^^^^
>>>or irresponsible?  Wouldn't this be the same if I suddenly decided that
>>>you are an undue burden to your mother, or to society, and brutally cut
>>>you apart?  I'll answer my own question.. yes.

>>Getting pregnant is not a crime.  Consenting to sex is not a crime.  You 
>>seem to think both are crimes that women should receive a nine-month 
>>punishment for.  As far as your second question, if my mother thinks I'm doing 
>>something that is causing an undue burden on her, I can stop doing it, or we 
>>can seek other alternatives.  Can a fetus stop causing a burden on an 
>>unwilling women without being removed?  

>Don't put words into my mouth.  Having sex and getting pregnant are not crimes.
>They are, however, actions that an adult must deal with like an adult.  

>The baby did NOT CAUSE ANYTHING!!  The man and woman caused the "burden".
>The baby had no choice in the matter.  Don't call it a fetus because I
>doubt you know what a fetus really is.

So the child must also deal with their irresponsibility?

>You are the perfect liberal.  You believe that you do not have to take
>responsibility for your own actions, ie. having sex.  The world must sacrifice
>any moral values to satisfy your desire for unrestricted pleasure.  

Some of us liberal conspirators believe in responsible sex, too.  Not all
unwanted pregnancies are the result of irresponsible sex.  But I suppose a
Chastity Master like you would even expect people to forego responsible sex.

[lunatic ravings deleted]

>                                                        In an ideal world,
>say in 100 years, where all of society has accepted that babies are alive
>and "human" from fertilization, we could THEN impose punishments on women
>who pay for abortions.  In that society which has accepted abortion as murder,
>where that is taught in school and by parents, then your contention would
>apply.  As it stands right now, most women are victims right along with their
>babies that are killed.  

Maybe you should have yourself frozen for 100 years so you can come out into
this wonderful society you predict.  I love the way people have to be *taught*
that abortion is murder.  I guess even you realize that it is not natural to
feel so, but must be specifically taught that way for people to believe it.

[more lunatic ravings deleted]

>>				.... Heather. 

>Edward Simmonds- Standard disclaimers

-Rob
Newsgroups: talk.abortion