HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: greg@netcom.com (Greg Bullough)
Subject: Re: Insurance Company Survey
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 06:03:44 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Keywords: Insurance,  Price,  Service, Reputation


I was with Trans-Pak for a few years. I left them because:
 
  1) They kept raising rates for no apparant reason, at one point
     using the Exxon Valdez as an excuse!?
 
  2) Would let my rate go up and then, when I objected to a 20% hike,
     would suddenly "find" me a discount (which I should have had for
     years) or "find" me a new underwriter (when  they should have
     been making sure I had the best deal in the first place).

  3) They would first ask for a survey next renewal, and then say
     they didn't want one. Then they suddenly wanted two photographs
     of the boat. Then they didn't. Crying "wolf" on a re-survey can
     cost as much or more than a year's insurance. So I GOT the survey
     and...
 
...went to BOAT-US, who have been very nice to deal with, and much less
expensive besides.
 
Greg
From: frenette@ast.com (Dan Frenette)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Anchors Larger or Much Larger?
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:28:02 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AST Research, Inc. Irvine, CA

Anchors size seems to be a personal thing.  In Mexico this year we were all
carring smaller anchors then last year.  Last year I washed up on the beach
although a rock one.  Cost me over $900 dollars to fix and required me
to sail back to Bay of LA in 45 knot winds with a small hole in the bottom.

The point is we compaired notes on what held over the course of the year and
independantly went with smaller anchors.  That night we had anchored in a
pond like enclosure with prevailing wind outside of 35 knots.  We held fine
through 270 degrees of wind change blowing 35 knots in the lulls measuring
50-55 knots in the puffs.  We had problems due to the following:

	1) The bottom was rocks.  We couldn't see what we anchored in when
	we came in.

	2) The direction changed an instant 90%.

	3) We were anchored bow and stern with no room to put out a beam
	anchor.

	4) A new swell hit the boat at the same time the wind shifted.

Every else held on a beam anchor.  The sizes were all smaller than recommended.
I.e. a very large dingy anchor.  A #45 CRQ on a 33 boat doesn't sond too far
off given the weight but don't get carried away and don't be too suprise if
your current anchor don't do the job in a pinch.

I have dropped my bow anchor size form 2000lb holding ratings down 
to 1200lb for this reason.  I've also backed off from the aluminum 
anchors to a more traditional steel anchor.  I feel moving the chain 
weight to the anchor is a good trade off.  Now I'm sailing a 3600lb 
boat with 3 hulls.  In 55 knots of wind we only had maybe 125 lbs of
force on any given line with 3 anchors out.

If you are going on a long cruise I wouldn't go with less than 4 anchors
in a bow and stern region and 3 of area where single hook is used.  Stuff
happens and you will loose or leave an anchor from time to time.  I haven't 
lost one in 7 years now but I wished I had one more last year.  If you anchor
in deep water take lots of chain.  If you are anchoring in shallow then
the extra chain doesn't seem to do much.  I like lots of chain because
the extra weight settles the boat down.

Poundage will not hold your boat.  Technique and good anchors will.  Any
anchor you can haul up will not keep your boat in place for anything but
a lunch hook.  When it blows the anchor isn't holding you it's all the
stuff you have it stuck in.  One size larger than rated requirements is
a good idea but more is only better for a little more.


The point to all this is if you don't feel the anchor set right which I didn't
then try somewhere else which I wanted to but was talked out of.  This is what
will hold your boat.  An anchor too large for your boat will not set properly
and will pull itself up on a single hook.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: psmith@dg-webo.rtp.dg.com (Peter Smith)
Subject: Frostbiting (Was: Man Overboard, again)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 16:34:19 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Data General Corp., Westboro, MA

In article <1fdmbbk.greg@netcom.com> greg@netcom.com (Greg Bullough) writes:
> ...
>So, pardon the ignorance of an soon-to-be ex-pat Californian, but what
>do you use to scrape your frozen butt off the bottom of the Dyer Dhow?
>A spatula? A blowtorch applied to the exterior of the hull?
> 

Rum.  Apply liberally inside and out.

BTW, insane frostbiters around here race Lasers.  Those beyond insanity
race sailboards (no, I don't know how they get their hands off the booms).
---
Peter Smith -- Data General Corp., Westboro, MA
Peter_Smith@dgc.ceo.dg.com or psmith@dg-webo.webo.dg.com
#include <std_disclaimer.h>
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: bill@vicorp.com (Bill Arduser)
Subject: Corsica S for sale.
Keywords: kayak, perception, used, creek boat
Organization: V. I. Corporation, Northampton, Massachusetts
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 01:03:15 GMT

FOR SALE: 
          Blue Perception corsica S, 1 year old.

          Good creek, play, or beginner boat for
          paddlers in the 120-180 lb. range.
          
          Great shape. $500.00  negotiable.
          

-- 
Bill Arduser
 
VI Corporation,  47 Pleasant St,  Northampton,  MA. 01060,   (413)586-4144
Internet: bill@vicorp.com  uucp: uunet!vicorp.com!bill  fax: (413)586-3805
From: campbell@clam.med.ge.com (Scott Campbell Mfg QIE 4-6778)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Grand Canyon
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:44:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: mr.1992Jul24.144421.24500
Reply-To: campbell@clam.med.ge.com (Scott Campbell Mfg QIE 4-6778)
Distribution: usa
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Milwaukee,  WI


Early this year there was a lot of discussion on
Grand Canyon rafting trips.  Was there a synopsis
ever put together?  I am looking for recommendations
for a trip next year the week of Memorial day.
We have a Ski club that may sponser a trip. I think 
the size of the group would be around 20 people.
I have information from Slight Expeditions, Holiday River
Expeditions, and the River Travel Center.

Any first hand experiance would be nice as well.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 09:36:09 EDT
From: <JPN@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: NBC Olympic Schedule

August 1--whitewater during the 7:30pm-midnight slot
August 2--whitewater during 8-11am, 7pm-midnight, and 12:35-2:05am slots

August 4-7--flatwater (opps, sprint) during the 7-10am slot (Man, I
              can hardly wait for the repechages on Aug 4). Well,
              just kidding, I will cheer on Norm and Greg too.
August 8--flatwater (TV Guides error) during the 7:30pm-midnight slot
              TV Guide also show some possible coverage during August 3,
              but doesnt list a time.
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: pt@geovision.gvc.com (Paul Tomblin)
Subject: Re: polyester resin vs epoxy
Reply-To: pt@geovision.gvc.com
Organization: Not officially GeoVision Systems Inc., Ottawa, Ontario
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 12:30:21 GMT

akarpowicz@mta.ca (Adam Karpowicz) writes:

>Is polyester resin used for inner and outer fiberglass shells in
>stripper construction, or only epoxy? Polyester is considerably 
>cheaper.

I used polyester for my canoe.  It worked, it's what the book I was using at
the time recommended.  It's still floating 7 years later.

I'll probably use epoxy next time, however, since I'm not a poor student any
more.

-- 
Paul Tomblin, pt@geovision.gvc.com or {uunet,cognos,revcan}!geovision!pt
(This is not an official opinion of GeoVision Systems Inc.)
"No matter what you've lost - be it a home, a love, a friend - like the 'Mary
Ellen Carter' rise again." - Stan Rogers - "Mary Ellen Carter"
From: petolino@joe.Eng.Sun.COM (Joe Petolino)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Face masks on helmets
Date: 31 Jul 1992 16:56:05 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: joe

>Take a look at European kayaking equipment. Romer makes a helmet
>with a detachable chin protector. Otherwise motorcycle helmets
>are used. I have never tried anything like that, but two
>problems come to mind:
>reduced visibility and communication problems. I have paddled
>with somebody who owns the Romer halmet, I couldn't understand a word he 
>said.

I've seen ads for a normal-looking helmet with a simple wire basket screwed
onto the front.  This wouldn't have either of the problems mentioned above.
I'll try to remember to post the ad info.

Why don't American paddlers use helmets like this?  Probably because they're
not available from whitewater suppliers.  Why aren't they available?  Maybe
the suppliers think that no one would buy such a dorky-looking helmet.
A lot of people might say "You won't hit your face on a rock if you
stay tucked", but I've seen, or heard of, several examples of bumped
foreheads and broken noses on paddlers with all levels of experience.

-Joe
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: River ratings discussion
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:59:55 GMT

An open ended system would be nice.  Class V certainly covers
a lot more teritory than it did 10 years ago.  I use the
following rating system (with some CO examples):*

"It hasn't been run yet"
V+	(RogorMortis, Meat Grinder, Lower Eldorado Canyon, SuperMax).
V	(Gore upto 1700cfs, Pine Creek @~2.5'-3', Baily Canyon @500cfs)
V-	(Upper Animus**, Piedra)
IV+	(Middle Narrows Poudre @4')
"No problem [for me]"

I am not sure the open ended system will help.  When looking at
new stuff I still tend to underrate easier stuff.  I use "No problem",
because I have [been told that I have] lost my perspective on how
hard the easy stuff is.  This is easy to do when most of what you
boat is class IV-V.

* These ratings are mostly at moderate water levels.

** Upper animus as a whole run is Class V, but no individual rapid
	is much harder than V- @~2500cfs in Durango.

--Chris
From: mayes@oasys.dt.navy.mil (J. Mayes)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Wanted -- Used Kayak
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:03:15 GMT
Reply-To: mayes@oasys.dt.navy.mil (J. Mayes)
Distribution: dc
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

Wanted - A used kayak (larger volume type such as a Dancer XT or a Corsica)
for a 6'3", 200 lb paddler.  E-mail or call (703) 920-2817.
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears)
Subject: Re: Anyone have shuttle info for Main Salmon?
Reply-To: scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears)
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:28:53 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.133548.1685@unislc.uucp> mls@unislc.uucp (Michael Simons) writes:
>It's been several years since I've run the Salmon, the outfit that run shuttle
>for us was:
>
>	River Rat Express
>	2134 Highland Avenue East
>	Twin Falls, Idaho  83301
>
>	Twin Falls: 733-8003
>	Stanley:    774-2265
>
>Sorry, but I don't have Idaho's area code. Anyway the above info was valid

	Idaho's area code is 208.

=Stanley, Idaho===============Sea-Bass Sears====================New York City=
   o  1979 Yamaha XS750|Perception      )    Corsica|     |       1985  Toyota
 _/\_>       Just ride!|             o /            ||~~~~~~\___       4Runner
O,> /O   e-mail: scs8@ |  ~^~^ <====<\/====> ^~^    ||_--____--_)   Just about
cunixb.cc.columbia.edu |Just  ~^~^~^ / ^~^~^  kayak!|  ()    () anything else!
     If everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane!! - Anon
==============================-->DoD #0516<--=================================
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: lee@wang.com (Lee Story)
Subject: Re: ACA vs. USCA
Organization: Wang Laboratories, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:15:57

In article <92209.094117FYU@psuvm.psu.edu> FYU@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

   I would like to support either the ACA or the USCA but don't know much about
   them beyond the ads in "Canoe".  Does anyone wish to express an opinion
   about the advantages of joining?  (Does anyone even have an opinion?)
									Don  (e-mail voigt@geosc.edu.psu)

If you're primarily a whitewater paddler, join AWA.  To support river
conservation, join and contribute to American Rivers.  The ACA supports
good instructor-certification programs (flat- and whitewater).  Don't
know about USCA...racing??
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Lee Story (lee@wang.com) Wang Laboratories, Inc.
            (this email address disappears 14 August;
 I may be reborn as lee@bostech.com or something similar in September)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: lee@wang.com (Lee Story)
Subject: Re: Face masks on helmets
Organization: Wang Laboratories, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: 31 Jul 92 11:46:58

In article <gizzi.712530171@walnut5> gizzi@rtsg.mot.com (James A. Gizzi) writes:
   Paddling the Yough at 4' brought about a question to which
   I had no answer.  Why is it that we saw no helmets with
   face protectors?  It would seem that there is a great risk
   of bashing the front part of the head on rocks.  I figgered
   the net would know.

Okay, I'll try.  (I presume it was the LOWER Yough---as far as I know
only Jesse Whittemore and Jeff Snyder run the Upper at 4'.)

(1) We see a fair number of people up here wearing hocket helmets (the
Cooper is popular), with and without the face protectors.

(2) Learn to tuck quickly when you flip, and busting your nose or
forehead isn't very likely.  (Believe me, I'm old Mr. Unbalanced, and
must have windowshaded at least a hundred times in the last few
years.)

(3) As in other "risk sports", the top people take big chances and the
neophytes follow them.  For example, solo paddling seems to be on the
increase (I don't necessarily disapprove, depending on who's doing
it.)  The aesthetic now seems to run toward jazzy helmets like the
Wilderness Systems---solid enough, but with no temple or forehead
protection.  Unfortunately I've seen the most people wearing them on
rivers like the Upper Yough and the Big Sandy, where most people
should be a little cautious.

Make sure your helmet covers the temples well, and offers some
forehead protection.  Look for a thick crushable-foam liner like a
motorcycle helmet (Seda) or a good suspension helmet (R\"omer).  Tuck
forward.  Do a sharp C-to-C roll.

Most of all, don't let your head touch any rocks.
Regards,
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Lee Story (lee@wang.com) Wang Laboratories, Inc.
            (this email address disappears 14 August;
 I may be reborn as lee@bostech.com or something similar in September)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: lee@wang.com (Lee Story)
Subject: Re: Olympic Kayaking
Organization: Wang Laboratories, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: 22 Jul 92 14:46:16
	<1992Jul21.193019.22708@beaver.cs.washington.edu>

(David Meyers) writes:
  (Rich Kulawiec) writes:
   (Larry Schuette) writes:
   >>All this talk about Olympic paddling... Lets not forget our other real
   >>medal chances.
   >
   >Yeah, but those are all weenie flatwater events.  To quote from Sir William:
   >
   >"There is no such thing as an expert flatwater paddler."
   >	--- William Nealy

   The truth of the matter is that Nealy probably couldn't keep one of
   those weenie flatwater boats upright for more than about three
   paddle strokes ... let alone make it go nearly 10 knots for 1000
   meters.

   How's that for flame war material? :^)

Asbestosis, baby!  I thought the flatwater races were only retained
this year to give Kathy a warmup event.  (Lets see Barton get that
skinny boat down the Upper Yough at 2.6'.)

Does anyone have accurate times of slalom coverage August 1/2?  And is
it on regular NBC stations, or one of the three special PPVs??  Thanks.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Lee Story (lee@wang.com) Wang Laboratories, Inc.
              (Merrimack Valley Paddlers)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: seningen@maserati.ross.com (Mike Seningen)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Rapid names
Keywords: rapid, name
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:59:47 GMT
Organization: ROSS Technology, Inc. Austin, Tx.

Arkansas River -- Browns Canyon  Most are threes or fours
Pinball (you have to bounce off the rocks to miss the sinkhole)
Big Drop
Widow Maker
Zoom Flume
Staircase (6 #3s in a row)
Raft Ripper
Twin Falls
"Seidell's" Suckhole -- can be class V depending on conditions

The Royal Gorge is more challenging 4's and 5+'s
but most of the names I've forgotten (read -- I've been too busy to
talk about the names :-)

Spikebuck,
Shark Tooth,
Double Dip,
are a couple before the Gorge starts

the only Gorge name I remember is`

Sunshine Falls, 3 6'+ rock ledges in a row -- a 5 or worse most of the time.

To think I survived "hitting the hole!".  It didn't seem so bad while we
were rafting (I was front right) -- but I did paddle a lot of air before
we hit the bottom of the falls.

We looked through a set of still photographs of our boat just as we hit the 
hole.  We had 6 men and a guide.  The following should give you an idea
what the gorge is like

We paddled furiously over the first drop, boat pretty much intact.  The
Second drop jostled us around and pointed us stright into the hole of
the 3rd drop, our guide was trying to miss it as few have ever made it
without going swimming.  When we hit the third drop we had just repositioned
from the previous drop, and all things considered we were still 
fucntioning as a 6 man crew. Most boats loose cohesion between drops 
two and three, thus dropping off the third at less than optimum conditions.
(read -- prepare to swim).


Photo 1:  Grave shock on all faces, front row hanging off ledge, paddling
lots of air, guide falling face forward as boat tips. It was like being on
the front car of a roller coaster, waiting for the rear car let you
fall over the hill.

Photo 2: First row completly submerged as we impact water, guide missing
in photo, assumed to be laying face down along middle pontoons. I remember
paddling under water for what seemed like quite sometime. 

Photo 3: Front and rear of boat nearly touching, front row helmets and
guide helmet almost inline.  Middle two rows missing as boat folds arround
them. Paddles can still be seen from all crewmen rowing frantically. For 
the middle guys, this is the only sign that they were still in the raft.

Photo 4: 6 paddles waving in air -- we made it!  All rafters ok!  The guide
was picking himself up from the floor of the raft :-)

What an experience -- the Gualey's next.

cheers,

mike



-- 
--
-Michael Seningen                     seningen@ross.com
                                      uunet!cs.utexas.edu!ross!seningen
-ROSS Technology, 5316 Hwy 290 West Suite 500 Austin, Texas 78735
From: ford@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Harry Ford)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Anyone have shuttle info for Main Salmon?
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:26:01 GMT
Reply-To: ford@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Harry Ford)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.boats.paddle, mls@unislc.uucp (Michael Simons) writes:
>From article <1992Jul27.154839.13277@ncar.ucar.edu>, by ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.ed
>u (Ilana Stern):
>> The Riggins Chamber of Commerce was not helpful.  We want a service that
>> will take us from the take-out (Riggins) to the put-in on the Main Fork
>> of the Salmon (two rafts, 8 people).  Can anyone recommend a company,
>> give us a phone number, or even copy an ad for us?

 From August 1992 Canoe Magazine:

  Les Bechdel's Canyons Inc.
  P.O. Box 823-C
  McCall, Idaho 83638
 (208-634-4303)

	      Warren River Expeditions, Inc.
	      Box 1375
	      Salmon, ID 83467

	      800-765-0421  or 208-756-6387

Don't know anything about either.
-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+  Before space was invented........    +                                  +
+                                       +  ...Time had no place to go!     +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Face masks on helmets
Date: 31 Jul 92 17:11:15 GMT
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO

In article l7is55INNqfn@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM, petolino@joe.Eng.Sun.COM (Joe Petolino) writes:
>
>Why don't American paddlers use helmets like this?  Probably because they're
>not available from whitewater suppliers.  Why aren't they available?  Maybe
>the suppliers think that no one would buy such a dorky-looking helmet.
>
>-Joe

Based on the photos that we all see of European boaters in the
calenders, etc:

	It looks like all they have are these low cfs, high gradient
	creeks.  I sure wish I had a face mask when I run stuff
	that starts looking like that.

Has anyone seen photos of Europeans on Class III water?

--Chris
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: janis@unislc.uucp (Janis Huber)
Subject: Arkansas River      
Reply-To: janis@unislc.UUCP (Janis Huber,B1E05,5392)
Organization: Unisys, Salt Lake City
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:55:59 GMT

There will be some Utah boaters invading Colorado this weekend.  
We are planning to kayak the numbers, the Royal Gorge, and Browns 
canyon on the Arkansas.

Is 570 cfs enough water to run the numbers?  Anyone interested in
joining us?




					Janis
From: Christic Institute <christic@igc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Date: 21 Jul 92 07:29 PDT
Subject: Kayaking on Maryland Public TV
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1450000009:000:636
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!christic    Jul 21 07:29:00 1992


This Wednesday at 7:30 p.m. on Montgomery Public Television:
a documentary on the U.S. Olympic try-outs on the Savage
River.  I think it will be broadcast only in Maryland.  In
the D.C. area you can see it on WMPT, Channel 22.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Lang              151251507 CHRISTIC                   telex
Christic Institute       christic                          PeaceNet
Washington, D.C.         christic@igc.org                  Internet
202-797-8106 voice       uunet!pyramid!cdp!christic            UUCP
202-462-5138 fax         cdp!christic%labrea@stanford        Bitnet
From: mayes@oasys.dt.navy.mil (J. Mayes)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: WANTED ___ USED KAYAK
Date: 27 Jul 92 12:08:07 GMT
Reply-To: mayes@oasys.dt.navy.mil (J. Mayes)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

Wanted: A used kayak> preferably a large volume creek boat type such
as a Dancer XT or a Corsica for a six foot two hundred pound paddler

E_mail or call <seven zero three> nine two zero _ two eight one seven

<sorry about the text the #@$%^ terminal won"t let me use commas periods
or numbers>
From: smay@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Scott Smay)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Cherry Cr (CA) in August?
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:03:50 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID

I had tentatively planned to paddle Cherry Creek around Aug 13-16, but I
heard a rumor that it was going away for the season after July. Can someone
in the know post the truth about Cherry Creek in August? What about Fordyce?

thanks,
scott smay
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle