From: mutchler@cs.utk.edu (David Mutchler)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Teaching chess to young children -- replies (LONG)
Date: 13 Oct 92 23:35:52 GMT
Organization: University of Tennessee, Knoxville - CS Department
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: duncan.cs.utk.edu
Originator: mutchler@duncan.cs.utk.edu


Thanks to all that responded to my question re teaching
chess to young children!  I have attached the complete
replies below, as the points raised were interesting,
thoughtful, and sometimes rather touching.
It was very apparent that these folks really LIKE spending
time with their children; it is quite beautiful that
chess can be a source of such enjoyment between parent and child.

My question was:

> This question is directed to those of you who have had
> experience teaching chess to young children.
> 
> My 7-year-old son has recently learned the rules of chess.
> At this point, he does well to think one move ahead.
> When he is thinking about his move, he likes to "try out"
> a move, moving the piece back if he doesn't like how
> things look, or releasing his hand from the piece if he
> is satisfied with the move.  This habit seems to have:
> 
>   -- advantage: He seems to learn more from the game
>         when he can experiment with his moves physically.
> 	His thinking is longer and more focused.
> 
>   -- disadvantage: He will have to break this habit
> 	once he starts to play competitively
> 	(in tournaments or whatever).
> 
> For such a beginner, is this habit a good or bad idea?
> Also, I would welcome any other suggestions you might have
> for teaching chess to young children.  Please reply directly
> to me, and I will post a summary of responses.  Thanks!
> 
>    --- David Mutchler (a weak chess player)

---------------------------------------------------------------
  From bbs@goonsquad.Spies.COM Mon Oct 12 21:50:36 1992
  To: mutchler@cs.utk.edu (David Mutchler)
  Subject: Re: teaching chess to young children
  Comments: The lines are dancing
  Organization: Spies in the wire, information co-op -- (408) 867-7400

mutchler@cs.utk.edu (David Mutchler) writes:

> For such a beginner, is this habit a good or bad idea?

  You're son's habit is an EXCELLENT one. It will make him better able    
to visualize the game in the future when he does have to learn new rules
for tournament play. I am senior in High School, and I spend 2 hours 
every week helping out elementry school kids with chess. I always tell 
them that it is okay to move a piece to a square and look at the resulting  
position. When they play clocked games, however, I do not allow them to 
do that... I think that the best way is to ween them, just like that.

---------------------------------------------------------------
  From sloan@cis.uab.edu Mon Oct 12 23:30:55 1992
  To: mutchler@cs.utk.edu
  Subject: Re: teaching chess to young children
  Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
  Organization: CIS, University of Alabama at Birmingham
  Cc: 

In article <ldjthvINNd7i@utkcs2.cs.utk.edu> you write:
>
>This question is directed to those of you who have had
>experience teaching chess to young children.

I have a 9yo son who has been playing for a few years, and have recently
started to teach small groups of kids from K-6.

>For such a beginner, is this habit a good or bad idea?

This is a bad idea.  There are several reasons.  The most obvious is
that you simply can't do this in serious competition.  Next, once you
begin to look beyond the first move and start to consider your
opponent's response, and you next move, etc. - you have to start
visualizing the board.  It's best to start early.  Finally, it is common
for children to try to play with all four hands on the board at the same
time, with pieces flying left and right.  I believe that it is very
important to teach them to keep their hands away from the board -  rom
the very beginning.  I tell my students to "keep your hands in your lap
- unless it is yo turn to move.  Even then, do not take you hands out of
your lap until you *know* what move you are going to make.  Reach out
and make the move; then put you hand back in your lap".


>Also, I would welcome any other suggestions you might have
>for teaching chess to young children.  Please reply directly
>to me, and I will post a summary of responses.  Thanks!

It depends greatly on the child's personality, and the teacher's, and
the relationship between them.  My son loves to read, and can work for a
long time alone.  So, he learns quickly from books (especially workbooks
which make him answer questions.  I'm much too strong a player for him,
and we are both too competitive to play any sort of handicap game.  So,
I'm hapy that he does well with books.  With other children, hands on
across the board teaching works well.  

I think that "Bobby Fischer Teaches Chess" is an excellent book for a
kid to go off and work with on his own.  Virtually everything by
Pandolfini is good - the "Square One" workbook is good.  Even better,
for the beginner, is "Pawn and Queen", which I use in formal classes.
The Alburt&Pelts "Comprehensive Chess Course" is good, and my son has
worked through it on his own - but it is expensive and it is really more
suitable for a motivated adult or a text for a very serious class.

Pandolfini's Endgame Course is an excellent book for a player such as
you son.  On the first pass through the problems, he may require a board
to follow the action, but on subsequent passes (it's the kind of book
that he'll go through many times) he should be able to follow the
solutions from the diagrams without a board.  This will help with his
tendency to reach out and move the pieces about.

Good luck!  Scholastic Chess is a great activity for kids.  Did you
attend the National Elementary Championships held in Knoxville, last
April?  1200 kids K-6 sitting in one room - quietly!  I believe that
Tennessee has good scholastic chess.  Alabama's program is good, and
getting better - if it's not too far for you (I think it's a 3 hour
drive), there are occasional opportunities for tournament play in
Huntsville.   For example - see the tournament scheduled for 24 October
listed in the current Chess Life.  The Hunstville Chess Club is very
active, and has begun to hold one-day Saturday events, with both
"regular" and "scholastic" sections held together at the same site.

Start training now for the Nationals - in Charlotte, SC this year.  

See you there!

-- 
Kenneth Sloan                   Computer and Information Sciences
sloan@cis.uab.edu               University of Alabama at Birmingham
(205) 934-2213                  115A Campbell Hall, UAB Station 
(205) 934-5473 FAX              Birmingham, AL 35294-1170

---------------------------------------------------------------
  From lee@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov Tue Oct 13 09:10:26 1992
  To: mutchler@cs.utk.edu (David Mutchler)
  Subject: Re: teaching chess to young children

In article <ldjthvINNd7i@utkcs2.cs.utk.edu>, you write:
|> For such a beginner, is this habit a good or bad idea?

I am certainly no authority on the subject, just a father. :)
But I taught my daughter to play at about the age of 4,
it was sort of spread out over time and I'm not real sure
when it was that she learned all the rules. But I can say
with confidence that she had them all down by 5. I would say
that we played only passively, I always wanted her to play
more but I did not want to push the game on her fearing
that it would become a negative experience, but we played
2 - 4 games a month for quite sometime. I allowed her to move
a piece and then take it back "for a while". In my opinion
it depends on how fast the childs skill level increases.
I would watch the moves she makes and take an estimate of
how much she was seeing and then slowly include rules in
our games to make them more like real tournament games.
Now, at the age of 9 when we play it is like a real tournament
game, sometimes I even make her write down her and my moves
(in algebraic, of course :) ) to include another tournament
condition and to teach her chess notation. BTW ChessMaster
was a great help teaching her notation. I have always made
a special effort to make the chess experience fun
( that is the most important thing to a 5 - 9 year old)
and teaching the game was of second priority, what good
would it do to have her learn the game if all she can
associate with the game is all the hours Dad made her sit
in front of this board and learn these stupid rules and theories.

I hope to get her into some local tournament soon,
but neither she or I have had the time to play and prepare.
Also at this age I see her interests go to other things,
such as swimming, archery and other sports, so I try
to incourage what she wants to do and let her make
the decision about how much energy she wants to put into it.

The most important thing is that I have taught her something
that can not be taken from her and long after I am gone
when she plays a game she will think of me and remember
the fun we had. :)

---------------------------------------------------------------
  From pgh@cs.brown.edu Tue Oct 13 10:14:43 1992
  To: mutchler@cs.utk.edu (David Mutchler)
  Subject: teaching chess to young children

Hi David --

My 6yr 11mo old daughter seems to be interested in chess these days,
but she's the sort of person who hates to lose, so we haven't played
any games.  Well, one, actually, when she took an opening position
that I had on the board, rearranged a few pieces (at least the Bishops
weren't on the same color squares!), and started playing.  When it was
bedtime, we wrote down the position in Forsyth notation, then the next
day she set up the pieces, and continued the game.  But I digress.  At
that age, I think the best thing is don't push the child.  When she
wants to do openings, I show her the first few moves of the King's
Gambit or Petroff's Defense or the Sicilian or the QGA or the Benko
Gambit.  Or anything else --- it's just for exposure, and seeing what
makes for good moves.  (She likes the idea of gambits, and especially
counter-gambits --- that's good for her!)  When she wants theory, we
go over Fine's "rules" in Chess the Easy Way.  She seems to know more
or less what's happening when I show her endgame studies (Chernev's
200 Brilliant Chess Endings, or any of a number of similar books).
She can mate with KRRvK, or at least she could.  When she wants to
play over a game, I show her a current Fischer-Spassky game, or some
other good game---last night we did Morphy vs the Duke of Brunswick
and Count Isouard.  These days she seems to prefer chess to bedtime
stories.  I figure some day she'll want to play --- or maybe not --
but I'm going to let her follow her interests.  She's already working
out some principles, like how long it takes a Knight to get to a
square two squares away in an orthogonal direction.  I do think we'll
stick to touch move once we start playing.

Anecdotes are great -- like the case of the two dead flies in the
lighting during the first Fischer-Spassky match (found while looking
for electronic equipment that Fischer may have placed there to disturb
Spassky -- and everyone thought Fischer was the only crazy one at
Rekjavik!).

Good luck!
Paul

Paul G. Howard    Dept. of Comp. Sci.   Brown Univ.   Providence RI 02912-1910
email pgh@cs.brown.edu    phone 401-863-7672    FAX 401-863-7657    ham KA1YNE

---------------------------------------------------------------
  From science@oasys.dt.navy.mil Tue Oct 13 11:09:22 1992
  To: mutchler@cs.utk.edu
  Subject: Re: teaching chess to young children
  Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
  Organization: Carderock Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center
  X-Organization: (formerly David Taylor Research Center)
  Cc: 

with my kids (10-year-old, and twin 7-year-olds) I have found that
playing against a chess computer (I have a Novag Super-VIP model) set
at a very low level is good for their learning, and doesn't hurt their
egos (as would losing to each other, or to me) ... I help them out a
bit along the way by pointing out bad moves before I enter them into
the computer, so they can retract and find something better (e.g.,
"did you notice that the pawn can take your queen on that square?"),
and by telling them to look hard when there is a mate-in-one or enemy
piece en prise for them to take) ... the 10-year-old has played a
couple of dozen tournament games over the past year and is rated about
1026, and seems happy with that; the 7-year-olds aren't ready to play
in a tournament yet, but I think that maybe next year they will be.
I'm not pushing them; would rather they had fun and stayed interested
in the game for the long haul!

feel free to quote or summarize the above in your summary to the net;
I'm interested in suggestions/advice that other folks provide re
helping youngsters get into chess....  Best,  ^z

---------------------------------------------------------------
  From jpd@casbah.acns.nwu.edu Tue Oct 13 12:10:53 1992
  To: mutchler@cs.utk.edu
  Subject: Re: teaching chess to young children
  Newsgroups: rec.games.chess

In rec.games.chess you write:

>For such a beginner, is this habit a good or bad idea?

David-

	Personally, I think it's OK for him to experiment.  My dad
encouraged that when he was teaching me how to play as a 7 year old myself.
Getting out of the habit of touching a piece you don't intend to move is
not at all like developing a bad golf swing that sticks with you.  It only
takes a couple of iterations of ``you touch it, you move it'' before you
break the habit Real Fast.

	Besides, I should expect that most of his games are going to be of
the friendly sort where the touch-and-move rule is loosely enforced anyway.


>   --- David Mutchler (a weak chess player)

					jpd (an intermediate player)

---------------------------------------------------------------

My own view, after reading the above, is that:

  1. The most important thing is that the child have fun.
  2. I am going to try letting my son play in two modes,
     for a while at least:
       -- "teaching" mode:  here he can "try out" the move,
	  and maybe even play through a brief continuation,
	  with my assistance; then return to the original
	  position and make whatever move he wants.
	  I would expect most (all?) of my own games
	  with him to be in this mode.
       -- "tournament mode": here I will ask that he try not
	  to touch a piece until he knows where he wants to move
	  that piece.  I would expect him to succeed in this
	  only gradually.  I would expect most (all?) of his
	  games with his contemporaries to be in this mode.

Again, thanks for the thoughtful replies!
   ... David Mutchler.
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess