HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: zik@zikzak.apana.org.au (Michael Saleeba)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Government coverups
Date: 24 Jan 1993 11:58:42 +1100
Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au

billp@mozart.amd.com (Bill Peterson) writes:

>	1) Something crashed. The Air Force doesn't want us all to know.
>	2) The Air Force STILL doesn't want us to know. (Almost 50 years
>	   later).

You see this sort of thing again and again, particularly in
alt.alien.visitors - wild claims that the government or some part of
it is trying to cover up information about UFOs. Now there's something
about all this that doesn't ring true for me at all. WHY? I mean,
what's the point? What do they stand to gain by covering it all up? It
must cost them a lot of effort, so they'd have to have a pretty darn
good reason to do it.

Maybe my perspective is a little warped by my location on this Earth.
In Oz we don't take our government particularly seriously - after all
it's made up of _politicians_! Similarly ASIO, our equivalent to the
CIA, is generally regarded as a laughing stock.

When I see claims that the government wants to cover things up I ask
myself, "If I was in government and a UFO was discovered what would I
do?". The answer is simple - I'd do what _every_ politician would do -
I'd play it for every bit of publicity I could wring from it. I'd be
on all the talk shows making pseudo-intelligent remarks about "our
friends in space" or "the threat from space" (whichever was most
expedient), and trying to get myself filmed standing beside a crashed
spacecraft. This is how politicians work.

You can argue that most people in government are not politicians and
have differerent priorities. This is true, but they all report to
politicians in the end.

In any case, what's the conventional wisdom as to _why_ the US
government would want to cover such a discovery up? About the only
thing I can think of is that they might want to exploit the technology
gained without competition, but surely they stand to gain more by
letting other people (or countries) know they have the technology, but
keeping the technical details secret.

Such claims of UFO landings and subsequent coverups are relatively
uncommon in Australia, despite the fact that our land area is roughly
equal to that of the US. I can't help feeling that this is at least
partially due to us having a lower number of paranoids with active
imaginations per square hectare.

+-----------------------------------+--------------------------------+
|          -|-   Zik   -|-          |           WANTED!              |
|      zik@zikzak.apana.org.au      |       Schrodinger's cat        |
|          Michael Saleeba          |        Dead or alive       - ? |
+-----------------------------------+--------------------------------+
Xref: sparky alt.alien.visitors:10247 talk.religion.newage:6299
From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:40:48 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <C1G5Iu.DwH@world.std.com>, kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes...
>[seen in--of all places--alt.postmodern:]
>In article <1993Jan25.164505.3288@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:
>>  .
>>  .
>>  .
>>                                           Robert E. McElwaine
>>                                           2nd Initiate in Eckankar
> 
>All I have to say to this is that Rev. Ivan Stang, who owns the Church
>of the SubGenius, called Eckankar "The Stupidest Cult(TM)".  And HE
>KNOWS STUPID CULTS!

I have some small reason to believe that mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu is no more
than someone's AI project. Try sending mail and see what happens. All I got
was more random mailings of over-capitalized drivel. Yo, "McElwaine", anything
to say to disprove this?

-Tom R.   randolph@est.enet.dec.com
From: fort@bbs.draco.bison.mb.ca (Bomber)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: weather
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 04:16:04 GMT
Organization: The Draco Unix System [BBS]

Out here in the GREAT WHITE NORTH,this datre the temp ia a balmy 8 above 
F.. no flood, no storms,,no avalanches,no nothing but great living..
s


---
fort@bbs.draco.bison.mb.ca (Bomber)
The Draco Unix System [BBS]
From: Scott_Leaf@mindlink.bc.ca (Scott Leaf)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Date: 22 Jan 93 21:30:44 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

Only an idiot would dare ask Kibo a trite question like that.

Just who do you think you are anyway?

I mean really.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Subject: Re: UFO TV
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 01:14:10 GMT
Followup-To: alt.scrub.project
Summary: realization, calling, new age, purpose in life, etc. stuff

In article <74502@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
...>  there was a discussionx as to why
> we are here. If you ever find out the answer to that question tell
> the world about it. John Winston.

i know what our purpose in life is. instead of being a nuiscence
to our neighbors and friends in a particular small geographical
circle, we can now annoyu people on a global scale without leaving
the house! just think of the possibilities! 
there, i told the world.

nudge, nudge, rib, erib:-)
From: serickso@ub.d.umn.edu (Scott Erickson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: John Winston human?
Date: 21 Jan 1993 15:48:37 -0600
Organization: University of Confused Thought
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: serickso@ub.d.umn.edu (Scott Erickson)
NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu


Previously John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com wrote: 
>Dear Thinkers: Well I hear that the Great Kibo refers to me as being
>human. Thanks very much. That is the nicest thing anyone has called me
>in months.
>John Winston.

The nerve of Kibo!  To say that John Winston is human is an insult to John.
I can not believe that Kibo would stoop to demeaning John like that!

--
Scott Erickson                                         serickso@ub.d.umn.edu
From: gilly!dave@quack.UB.com (Dave Fischer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: John Winston=fucking wanker
Date: 24 Jan 1993 02:33:58 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

ajc1@mail.ast.cam.ac.uk (Andrew Cooke) writes:

>rubbish!  it's the funniest stuff i have read on usenet for
>ages.  wonderful.
>
>thank-you, john.

It's pretty good, but it's nowhere near as entertaining as
garys@bluemoon.rn.com! For a while, I'd scan alt.alien.visitors 
by From: line instead of by Subject: line, just to read his
stuff! I have a few of his longer posts archived, anyone else
here collect his stuff too?

(BTW.... I just started reading a.a.v after a long lapse - is
garys still around? Or....was he..... REPLACED!?!?)


------------------------ uunet!quack!gilly!dave ------------------------
================= Dave Fischer - Nature's Perfect Food =================
---------------------- dave%gilly@quack.sac.ca.us ----------------------
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: jbm@hal.trl.OZ.AU (Jacques Guy)
Subject: Re: John Winston=fucking wanker
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:44:03 GMT

simpson@teecs.UUCP (Libby Simpson) writes:

>My sentiments exactly!!!!!!!!!! this "brain" has an imagination
>that would best be served by writing fiction and selling it to
>low budget movie monguls.   He wastes valuable network resources
>with all the crap that dreams up every night.  Everytime I see
>a posting from this dude, I avoid reading it, because its always
... etc.
I would suggest, if you really want to see what a true, valuable
network-resources-wasting fucking wanker is like, tune in to
soc.culture.europe, soc.history, soc.culture.greek, and see.

John Winston might be as mad as a meat axe if you please, 
or whatever disparaging epithets one may dream up, some of
which may well be true, but he is not a *cunt* (yes, cunt,
I chose the word carefully) like the poster you will find
on the groups mentioned above.

Moreover, some of his postings are interesting, insofar as
they present data, sources not easily obtainable. That the data
may be wrong, biased, fabricated, the sources deluded	
does not detract from its value. It is at least interesting
from the anthropological and psychological angle. Did Carl
Jung rave about UFOs being fucking wankers' delusions? No.
He studied the phenomenon without prejudice, bearing
in mind a near certainty that they were delusions.

In that light, John Winston's postings are informative.

And to finish on a less placid tone.

You complainants, what the fuck do you contribute to this
group? Whinge, whinge, whinge, bitch, bitch, bitch. Not
a shred of information. Nothing. Zilch. Bugger all.

So bugger off!
From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Dang it: well I'm back from vacation
Date: 23 Jan 93 04:08:50 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T


Dear Ones of this dimension: well i'm back, but i still can't post.
how did i post this. my space friends posted it for me from a ship
orbiting just over Mt shasta.
btw, i spilt some milk on the floor, gosh now i have to wipe it up.
be seeing you real soon.

me speaking now- bye
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: parys@ccsua.ctstateu.edu
Subject: Give Me A Break!
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:59:58 GMT

About six months ago this was an interesting newsgroup.  Now it consists of
science fiction and egos.  

The possiblility that there could be life on another planet is not one that any
of us would view as impossible.  

That they could travel here and watch us and want to examine us is also not
impossible.   

What is impossible is the amount of bull that someone has to go through to read
something on this board that might be pertinent.

I'm sure somewhere on this vast network is a newsgroup for science fiction
lovers.  Why can't that board be utilized instead of this one.  

And why all the obcenities?  I hook onto this board to learn what others may
have learned or endured.  Why must you fight as if life itself were being
threatened?  

And what could Star Trek, this generation or the last, possibly have to do with
the purpose of this group?  

This is supposed to be about REAL ENCOUNTERS not encounters with a televison
set.

Is there another news group that I can hook onto that does have something to do 
with alien life forms and their possible journey here?  If so let me know.























Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: oldham@icd.ab.com (Daniel R. Oldham)
Subject: Cleveland
Organization: Allen-Bradley Company, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:36:32 GMT

Everything is fine here in Cleveland.

dano:
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks)
Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 03:02:55 GMT

graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>> >I don't think anyone would argue that the military does lots of things 
>> >that are secret.  
>> >But, this is irrelevant to the question that has been asked.
>> >A.) They claimed it was just a weather balloon.
>> >B.) But, if it's just a weather balloon, why all the secrecy?
 
unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu  writes:
>> Let's say they were testing MANNED balloons as a recon platform or to set
>> an altitude record and something went wrong and the crew was killed.  It
>> would be very embarrassing public relations-wise if this go out.  This sounds
>> like a plausible reason for secrecy.

Joe Citro III writes:
>        If this were true then why draw attention to the incident by claiming
>        the recovery of a disk?  At the time there was a substantial reward for
>        physical evidence of flying saucers ( UFO CRASH AT ROSWELL-RANDLE/
>        SCHMITT).  Consequently, a claim of such evidence would be sure to
>        attract unwanted attention to the theoretical manned balloon crash
>        site.

Ok, so you don't like the manned idea.  How about, the balloon is carrying
particulate collectors to look for fallout from US or Soviet Nuclear tests.
You post a reward so people will turn in the "disks" rather than keep them.

The US Govt. keeps plenty of things secret for a long time.  There are OSI
files still classified for over 50 years now.

Rob U
--
-       Rob Unglenieks             REAL race cars DON'T wear BOWTIES       -
-  "It is the foreign element that commits our crimes.   There is no       -
-   native criminal class except Congress."  [Samuel Langhorne Clemens]    -
-  (Don't look at me, I DIDN'T vote for Clinton.  Will Engineer For Food)  -
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:01:21 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <15840003@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> brian@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Wood) writes:
>Peter Nelson writes:
>   I gave up watching TV altogether a year or so ago precisely because
>   the very best it could manage was ca-ca like the Simpsons or STNG,
>   masquerading as quality for "thinking viewers" (almost an oxymoron)
>   when in reality it's distinctly lowbrow.
>   
>   The average Star Trek viewer is a child of the TV generation and
>   isn't very well-read.   So he doesn't realize that all these
>   themes are treated with VASTLY greater insight and wit in such
>   diverse writings as Greek classical literature, the Bible, the
>   Vedic scripts, Shakespeare, and thousands of great works of 19th
>   and 20th century literature, including important works of science
>   fiction!
>
>Peter, I very much take exception to this.  I thought you were better
>informed.  I, as an engineer, know many engineers who love Star Trek for
>the moral, ethical, political and human rights issues it consistently
>raises with a thin veneer of sci-fi,

  Nobody denies that it *raises* these issues.  My point is that
  it only addresses them in the most simplistic, unsophisticated 
  manner imaginable.   I'm taking issue with those here who say
  that Star Trek is intellectually sophisticated.   Nietzsche
  or Hume might be intellectually sophisticated in matters of
  philosophy, Bell or Einstein in matters of physics, Hofstadter
  or Kuhn in matters of the philosophy of science, etc, to take
  some of the subjects that Star Trek touches on.

  But when I say things like this someone else is bound to
  retort, "But it's only a TV show!".  Well, no shit, Sherlock,
  but we can't have our cake and eat it too.   Unless "intellec-
  tually sophisticated" is going to have a different definition
  for TV than for every other medium, we have to face facts.  
  And the fact is that while Star Trek may passingly acknowledge
  the existence of Great Issues it sheds precious little light
  on them for anyone who's reasonably well-educated.  


> and I'll bet if you surveyed the engineers at the Chelmsford plant,
> you'd find an awful lot of other Trekkers.

  So?

>Star Trek derives many of its themes from Shakespeare, and many of the 
>actors are Shakespearean.

  So?  Gilligan's Island could well be likened to "The Tempest"
  but there the comparison ends.


>Star Trek represents humankinds best hopes and dreams for a future we
>can be proud of.

  How do you draw this conclusion?



---peter
From: jriley@csisun.uucp (John Riley)
Subject: What's the fuss?
Organization: CompuSci, Inc
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 23:53:40 GMT

Does anyone have a sense for the probability of another sentient species
traveling here?  My intuition is that the chances are *extremely* low.  
Also, havya ever wondered why so many idiots, present company excepted of
course, are preoccupied with the subjek?

jjr

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek)
Subject: Re: Is Strieber still around?
Organization: Boeing
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 22:00:17 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.053407.22691@unislc.uucp> ach@unislc.uucp (Andy Hutton) writes:
>Has anyone heard from W. Strieber lately?  The last thing I'd seen from him


His latest book, which I don't remember the name of [nor do I care],
concerns a priest and the devil.  I glanced at it to see if the story
teaser mentioned UFO's and thankfully, it didn't.

Rick

-- 
Rick Pavek                       | Never ask a droid to outdo its program.
kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com    |           
Seattle, WA                      |   It wastes your time
                                 |          and annoys the droid.  
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Subject: Re: Smoking
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 04:46:29 GMT
Followup-To: alt.second.rat.smoke

In article <74028@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
> Dear Folks: I agree with Jean that too much smoking of Ziggurates is 
> bad for you. 

"not only that but 2nd hand smoke too. these scientists of the 
government put these rats in a clear plastic box and blew smoke
in there all the time. the rats died in every experiment, so they
released their report to the press of the dangers of exposuref to
2nd hand smoke. i don't know what this has to do with aliens but
i heard the aliens got the americans hooked on tobacco.

                                                    "
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: parys@ccsua.ctstateu.edu
Subject: Re: Stonehenge Crop Circle
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:16:33 GMT

In article <1jsbgqINN8c1@bigboote.WPI.EDU>, drwho@edwards.WPI.EDU (Eric Ant Von Laudermann) writes:
> In article <1jqfpeINN3mq@zikzak.apana.org.au> petert@zikzak.apana.org.au (Peter T.) writes:
>>I posted an article here about this not long ago, so I won't go into
>>too much detail as I hate typing.  Anyway one majour difference
>>between the unexplained circles and the hoaxed ones, is that the
>>hoaxed circles made by those two {their names escape me at the moment
>>had straw which was broken at the base due to their bending. Whereas 
>>the unexplained circles had straw which was bent in a nicely curved 
>>radius {no brakes}.
> 
>>Cheers 
>>Peter T.
> 
> A crop circle researcher (I can't remember his name-- he has posted a
> few reports of his investigations to this newsgroup) mentioned that,
> by simply walikng around in a circle, he and a colleague were able to
> reproduce a typical simple crop formation.  The trampled stalks were
> *not* broken, just bent.  So apparently, some plants break when
> trampled, and some just bend.  So would everybody *please* stop
> insisting that unbroken stalks are unnatural?  We have enough trouble
> sorting through the facts as it is without these distracting little
> falsehoods about details.
> 
> --E.V.L. (drwho@wpi.wpi.edu)  # "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you see
> a.k.a.:  The Eternal Newbie,  # before you a killer, and of the worst kind.
> The Amazing Tubeman!,         # Madonna."
> Murphy's Law Incarnate        # --Commercial for the movie "Body of Evidence"
> Any similarities between what I say and what I mean are purely coincidental.


Never mind kibo....who is Winston?

											
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: sorgatz@avatar.tti.com (sorgatz)
Subject: Re: Government coverups
Organization: Citicorp TTI
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:05:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.184336.16756@netcom.com> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
>>>	Why? Let me put it this way. People will suddenly realise that all we
>>>are are just little specks of dust when considering the universe. We're not 
>>>very advanced in our space travel or our defenses, so when we hear about UFOs,
>
>Technically, I am not sure the statement "we have _no_ defenses against UFOs 
>_whatsoever_" is meaningful. Is a misidentified balloon really a threat to
>all? Perhaps it would be better to substitute -alien spaceship- for UFO.
> 

 The real issue is one of CONTROL. As it is government is losing control,
the populace is beginning resent being treated as government-wealth slaughter!

 Should it become know that Planet Earth is just a dinky back-world, and that
the zero-sum game here is a hoax, there would be a few billion people here
screaming for blood...namely the blood of those in government that have kept
us toiling away at the drivel of ordinary life while secret technology could
have freed us 50 years ago...think about it. If this is the case, the truth
may NEVER come out! ;-(  It may very well be for such reasons that the whole
issue is shunned by the military, look at their stake in this silly game:

 Control of the population via the tools of war. Total control.

 But what if, And it is a what-if situation, there exists technology that can
provide limitless energy at a fraction of the cost of our current systems? A
new medical technology that can render death obsolete? Food production means
that could feed 10x our population? And the list never stops! What if..?

 One very likely outcome of such a scenario is that people would simply stop
going to work, stop going to school (as we now know it..) stop paying their
TAXES?!! (Oh Dear!) Stop taking advice from assholes like Jerry Fallwell and
Co....Oh my GHOD! People might even begin to think FOR THEMSELVES!


 ...I can see it now:

EBE: "..<thru translation>..but we gave the technology to your governments 50
     years ago? You mean they..?

EARTHMAN: "Yep..the bastards just SAT ON IT! That's why we had to kill them 
            all and start over! Politicians are a worthless lot you know..."


-Avatar-> (aka: Erik K. Sorgatz) KB6LUY           +-------------------------+
TTI(sorgatz@soldev.tti.com)                       *   Think Eco, not EGO!   *
3100 Ocean Park Blvd. Santa Monica, CA  90405     +-------------------------+
(OPINIONS EXPRESSED DO NOT REFLECT THE VIEWS OF CITICORP OR ITS MANAGEMENT!)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III)
Subject: Re: Roswell Testimony
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 07:40:44 GMT

unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu  writes:
> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
> >I don't think anyone would argue that the military does lots of things 
> >that are secret.  
> >
> >But, this is irrelevant to the question that has been asked.
> >
> >A.) They claimed it was just a weather balloon.
> >B.) But, if it's just a weather balloon, why all the secrecy?
> 
> Let's say they were testing MANNED balloons as a recon platform or to set
> an altitude record and something went wrong and the crew was killed.  It
> would be very embarrassing public relations-wise if this go out.  This sounds
> like a plausible reason for secrecy.


        If this were true then why draw attention to the incident by claiming
        the recovery of a disk?  At the time there was a substantial reward for
        physical evidence of flying saucers ( UFO CRASH AT ROSWELL-RANDLE/
        SCHMITT).  Consequently, a claim of such evidence would be sure to
        attract unwanted attention to the theoretical manned balloon crash
        site.
> 
> Rob U
> --
> -       Rob Unglenieks             REAL race cars DON'T wear BOWTIES       -
> -  "It is the foreign element that commits our crimes.   There is no       -
> -   native criminal class except Congress."  [Samuel Langhorne Clemens]    -
> -  (Don't look at me, I DIDN'T vote for Clinton.  Will Engineer For Food)  -



                                                Joe Citro III