From: krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Ted Krueger)
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.homosexuality,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Sexuality
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:03:22 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson AZ

In article <1993Jan7.193113.24679@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> gsmith@polyhymnia.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Gene W. Smith) writes:

>If the excess rate of suicide among gay teens does not
>come from societal disapproval, where do you imagine it does come
>from?  

You must show evidence for this alleged causuality.  Do you really want 
alternate reasons?  How about the theory that homosexuality is a mental 
abnormality (as perhaps indicated by the hypothalamus size study)?

>If societal disapproval does not come in part from religious
>ideas, where do you suppose it does come from?

This is an ill thought-out question.  To illustrate this, let me use an 
alternate example:  If societal disapproval (of minorities) does not come 
in part from religious ideas, where do you suppose it does come from?

>My own opinion is that the teen suicide is an
>outgrowth in large part of the delusion that God hates homosexuality,
>which I regard as bad theology (being more or less blasphemy) and
>worse psychology.  Sow hate and that is what you reap.

Thank you for admitting that it is your opinion.  Do you honestly believe 
that the rampant anti-christianity apparent in your post is not hate?

>>Yes, and the *average* christian is NOT a fundie. 
>
>What does the average Christian think about gays and lesbians,
>however?

I don't know that, but I do know what the average Christian should think 
about gays and lesbians.  It is found in the Bible.

>>Maybe that's why they think everyone hates them, because they are
>>projecting their way of thinking onto their (percieved) enemies??  It
>>really makes me *sad*. 
>
>When you've been beaten up and called names, it becomes easier to
>think that people hate you, and harder to like people who promote the
>idea that you are an inferior sort of human being.

EVERYBODY grows up being beaten and called names.  I am not in favor of 
it, but most of us grow up and end up ok.  Perhaps the gay problem is 
oversensitivity.

>As far as projection goes, it seems to me that the whole anti-gay
>thing is mostly projection.  A person has some sort of religious
>experience or upbringing, or in some way is faced with the idea of a
>God who is good.  By comparison, they feel bad, especially to the
>extent that they identify with the ego, which seems to be rejected
>in some sense by this goodness.  They therefore feel that God must
>hate them and want to attack them.  

No more than any other sinner.  Perhaps the problem is that the gays 
you are describing have an innacurate view of God and do not realize 
that He hates their sin, not them.  Homosexuality is no worse than 
private hate, nor better than mass-murder in God's eyes.

>This idea causes such anxiety that a scapegoat must be found on which
>to project the sense of sin, so that God can be thought of as hating
>and attacking that instead.  If you believe that God created people to
>be heterosexual and that homosexuality is therefore a form of
>rebellion against God, it is easy to think that gays and lesbians are
>a good scapegoat.  But the mechanism as well as the results are just
>the same as with other traditional scapegoats whom God is assumed to
>hate (e.g., Jews, heretics, etc.)

Please, document this idea that you seem to have that Christians hate 
gays.  If you checked further, I believe that you would find that 
Christians hate homosexuality, but love the homosexual.  Kind of like 
being against the Gulf War but supporting the troops.  See?

>This is the same blasphemy which has been killing all kinds of people
>in the name of religion all along.

Please, state the name of one Christian who has killed a homosexual.

Ted

-- 
So the Maples formed a union, and demanded equal rights, "The Oaks are just 
too greedy.  We will make them give us light!"  Now there's no more Oak 
oppression, for they passed a noble law.  And the trees are all kept equal, 
by hatchet, axe and saw.     -  Rush, The Trees