From: dht@controls.ccd.harris.com (Danh Tran)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.vietnamese
Subject: Re: ** Rules for placing accent marks? **
Date: 23 Nov 92 05:08:17 GMT
Organization: Harris Controls and Composition

Hi anh Linh,

You miss my point too. :-))  Sorry that I didn't express myself well
in my last article which obviously got you confused.

This has nothing to do with how to place diacritical marks on the "i".
It is rather related to the VNese typesetting in books, magazines,
newspapers, etc..

If you open a VNese books and look for all the words which have marks
on the vowel "i", then you won't find any dot (or point) on those "i".
Somehow, all the dots on those "i" have been replaced with the 
diacritical marks.  On the other hand, if words contain "i" without
marks placed on them, the dots above "i" are out there.  It is 
interesting, isn't it?

I bought this one up because you wrote "all i must have the point".
I wonder if this is only happen in typesetting in order to save
space (to place diacritical marks).  In handwriting (myself or others),
I notice that the dot is always there no matter if it has the mark or not.

Danh Tran

--------------------------------------------------------
In article <1992Nov21.023643.2884@lsil.com> ltran@lsil.com writes:
>Danh Tran (dht@controls.ccd.harris.com) wrote:
>: In article <1992Nov13.203853.5628@lsil.com> ltran@lsil.com writes:
>: >
>: >....
>: >....
>: >	ZERO RULE
>: >	Always put the marks on the vowel, never on the consonent.
>: >	
>: >	FIRST RULE
>: >	Always put the following marks on the vowel that already has a mark.
>: >	Example:
>: >	tha^'y, tho^?i, thuo+?, xuo^?ng, cuo^'c, nguye^~n .
>: >	The point on the i is not counted as a mark, since all i must have
>:                                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>: >	the point. 
>:         ^^^^^^^^^^
>: >
>: 
>
>
>	You miss the point! :-)
>
>	I just said: "the point on i is not counted as a mark...". I didn't
>	say that "it is forbidden to place a mark on the i"!!!!!
>
>	I state the above just to clarify that when you confront the following
>	words, you would not put the mark on the i JUST BECAUSE IT HAS A POINT!
>	gia?, gia`, ddie^?n, ddie^.n, bi'u, vi'u , ...
>
>	"Thiu thi?u" has the mark on "i" because i was the near the middle of
>	the word, not because there was a point on i. And I didn't say it is
>	forbidden to have the mark on i!
>
>
>
>: I don't think this is true in Vietnamese language.  If there is a mark  
>: on the vowel "i", then the point will not be there. i.e.
>: 
>:     -  chu't i't  (little), gia -di`nh (family), etc....
>
>	The point will be there because of other rules! And those words doesn't
>	have any ambiguity about placing marks. 
>
>	OK, I was not clear. The point on the i is not considered tonal mark
>	or a diacritial mark, nor considered as a vowel modifier in the class
>	of u+, a^, etc. All i must have the point on as an INTEGRAL part of
>	its symbol .
>
>: 
>: Look at the printing in VNese magazines, books, etc.., then you will see
>: what I mean.
>: 
>: Danh Tran
>
>--
>------------------------------------------
>Linh Tran
>ltran@lsil.com
>of course, it is only my opinion.
>------------------------------------------