From: t-frans@microsoft.com (Francis Stanisci)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: reply to Carlos (long, 1.5 pages)
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:37:52 GMT
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Please read my final notes as well, thanks.

Carlos,

You want numbers and facts?  Here's some more...

The following is based on teams making it to the semi-finals and the 
finals.  Total World Cups played 14.

		Participated	Won	Second	Third	Fourth

West Germany		9	3	3	2	1
Brazil			7	3	1	2	1
Italy			6	3	1	1	1
Argentina		4	2	2
Uruguay			4	2			2
Austria			3	1		1	1
Sweden			3		1	1	1
France			3			2	1
Czechoslovakia		2		2
Holland			2		2
Hungary			2		2
England			2	1			1
Poland			2			2
Chile			1			1
Portugal			1			1
US			1			1
Belgium			1				1
Spain			1				1
USSR			1				1
Yugoslavia		1				1

===============================================================

Ranked by		points

Champion gets (4) points;  second (3);  third (2);  fourth (1).

West Germany		26
Brazil			20
Italy			18
Argentina		14
Uruguay			10
Austria			7
Sweden			6
Czechoslovakia		6
Holland			6
Hungary			6
France			5
England			5
Poland			4
Chile			2
Portugal			2
US			2
Belgium			1
Spain			1
USSR			1
Yugoslavia		1

Using only the above matches (finals & semi-finals)..
note: I'm missing the individual scores for 1950 WC.

The numbers here are based on teams making at least a 4th place 
showing.  The aggregate numbers span the years in which they 
participated and made the top 4 in rankings.

1.  Goals
	a.  Champion matchs: Brazil (12), Italy (9), Argentina (6), West Germany (6).
	b.  Total goals scored: Brazil (18), West Germany (14), Italy (13), 
France (12).
	c.  Average per game (champion match): Brazil (4), England (4), 
Argentina (3), Italy (3).
	d.  Ave. all rounds: France (4), Brazil (2.6), Italy (2.1), Argentina (2.0).

I might add that Brazil holds the record on number of goals for (not 
Argentina). Most of which were scored when some kid named Pele played 
for them (you'll note I did not credit him with the goals).  You have 
heard of Pele, right?

These are *quantifiable* measurements.  Or if you will, *Objective* 
results.  There are more, but hey, everyone is sick of this topic anyway.

Based on *facts* as Carlos wishes, we can plainly see that Germany is 
top of the heap points wise. Brazil the kings of scoring.

Carlos, if you can dispute the facts above, surely your argument is 
self fulfilling and nothing more.

Bye the way, my personal favorites are Italy, Brazil, and Argentina, in 
that order.  I am not, however, so bold as to say Italy is the best 
(though as an Italian, I am inclined think that) for OBVIOUS reasons.

The country that is home to the best soccer in the world changes at any 
given moment, and can be the result of the team, the coach or 
occasionally the efforts of an individual.

The Champions, however, are those that hold the title World Cup 
champions.  This in all fairness is passed on from country to country 
based on who's best at that given moment in time.

Like the World Cup sees it's champion teams come and go, so shall we 
see *great* players come and go.  In our own eyes we see certain 
players as being the best our city, township, country maybe even the 
world has to offer.  But in the end, a true soccer lover, loves the 
sport most of all.

Francis.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer