HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sprute@dsf58a.desy.de (Lars Sprute)
Subject: Re: Dream'92 Experiment Results
Organization: DESY, Hamburg, Germany
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 23:07:07 GMT

aec1@crux2.cit.cornell.edu (Allen Chen) writes:
: Well, folks, the Dream'92 Experiment is officially over.  I'm sorry to say
: that the experiment was pretty much a flop.  I had a total of 4 dream
: reports.  Three reported actually reaching the ship and the fourth reported
: thinking of the ship but never reaching it.  Of the 3 ship reports, all the
: descriptions of the ships were completely different.  I didn't really see any
: correlations whatsoever between the dream reports. I'd like to thank everyone
: who participated, even if they didn't make it to the ship.
: 
: If anyone has an idea for an experiment that might yield more results, post
: about it!  Happy dreaming!
: 
: -------
: Allen Chen
: aec1@cornell.edu
: -------


I'd like to read about the dreams of the dreamers, who reached the ship, if
they don't mind. Could you, or the 'fantastic four'  :=)  just post it here ?

Lars

--

/---------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Lars Sprute  -R-                            Net:                          |
| DESY (Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron)                                   |
| Notkestr. 85                                sprute@desy.de                |
| D - Hamburg 52                              SPRUTE@DESYVAX.BITNET         |
| Germany                                     13313::SPRUTE.DECNET          |
| Tel. +49 40 8998 3219                                                     |
| FAX. +49 40 8998 3282                                                     |
\---------------------------------------------------------------------------/
From: mvp2k@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Michael Vick Pollan)
Subject: Re: Hypnopompia-or hallucinations upon waking up 
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 06:54:19 GMT

Newsgroups: alt.world.taeis
From: tuff@ellis.uchicago.edu (Geoff Tuffli)
Subject: Fiction...?
Reply-To: tuff@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:27:26 GMT

	There is a small number of fiction on Taeis and Mua'kaar on the
anonymous ftp site at netcom.netcom.com pub/anton, and if other people
want to put up fiction in these places, it probably could be arranged.

	Geoff Tuffli
	The Green Griffin
From: santafe@watserv.ucr.edu (michael a parisi)
Newsgroups: alt.world.taeis
Subject: Re: Hello? Anyone there?
Date: 22 Jan 93 06:03:54 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1jif0vINNk8h@gaia.ucs.orst.edu> vaughnl@ucs.orst.edu (Luke Vaughn)  
writes:
> Is anyone else still around here or has this place died without anyone  
noticing?
> 
> Geoff? You there?
> 
> Anybody?
> 
> Luke Vaughn
> vaughnl@ucs.orst.edu
> 
> Mekal'ua @ Taeis [When it come back up]

Yep, we're out here.  Was just passing through and decided to take
a break.  Have been pondering the whole issue about having God 
over to watch the Superbowl with me.  I guess that I shouldn't
bet him because he has an unfair advantage of knowing the outcome
of the game as well as every other game that will happen in the 
future.  If he won anyway, where would he spend the money?  I mean,
isn't he able to conjure-up anything he wants at any given time?
Newsgroups: alt.zines,rec.mag,alt.postmodern,alt.slack,alt.music.hardcore,alt.cyberpunk,alt.thrash,alt.vampyres,alt.fandom.misc,rec.arts.sf.misc
From: bobc@pyramid.unr.edu (Bob Conrad)
Subject: Re: Latest F5 info
Organization: University of Nevada, Reno  Department of Zine Prices
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 06:58:18 GMT
X-Posted-From: pyramid.cs.unr.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1k7nk5INN17u@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aa704@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jennifer Engel) writes:
>re: zines are only "punk" if they aren't sold for money, which is when they
>become minature magazines

so zines are only punk if they are free?  so what about bands who go on
the road?  should they play all their shows for free in order to be punk?

and what about records?  and shirts?  and etc?

>so how do you expect to produce one? doing mine myself, and having access
>to free copying, the postage is enough to warrant asking for money. now, i

oh, i get it, so since you have access to free copying and you can afford to
print your free, everyone else should too?

i pay roughly $150 to print 200 issues of mine.  I sell them for $2 each
to people who order them.  wholesale (where most of them go) i sell them
for about 50 cents each.  i have yet to break even on doing mine.  actually
i've LOST a lot.

>think something like a dollar is reasonalbe, 

unless your zine is over two ounces (most are NOT) then one dollar is
highly unreasonable.  following your logic, that is.  if your zine is
two ounces or less you should charge TWO STAMPS. 

>everyone should stop worrying about what "punk" is and trying to define it
>and just live their life. 

well reread your first line and then follow your own advice.

>i'm not punk by charging for my zine? i'm glad.

yes, we are full of conradickshuns today....


Newsgroups: alt.zines
From: an7844@anon.penet.fi
Subject: Zines
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.zines
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:16:16 GMT


bobc@pyramid.unr.edu (Bob Conrad) writes: 

> i'm a fucking purist, i encourage everybody else to try
> to keep their work and art pure too.  the other thing about all this zine
> talk that's pissing me off is evident in an announcement i got in the mail
> for an upcoming zine show.  it said "fanzines=artzines, homozines, litzines,
> femzines, musiczines, personalzines, punkzines, comiczines" or something
> to that effect.  to read it you'd get the impression on "punkzines" are
> some little bastard faction of fanzines, when in reality fanzines have been
> nurtured and hyped almost exclusively by the punk scene for the last
> 15 years!  sure, they word "fanzine" originally came from sci-fi rags
> in the early 70s but it's been punk culture that kept the word alive
> and then pushed it to its presnt possibilities

   I think you're taking things too seriously.  After all no-one could
really believe that: 

> in reality fanzines have been
> nurtured and hyped almost exclusively by the punk scene for the last
> 15 years!

and 

> it's been punk culture that kept the word alive
> and then pushed it to its presnt possibilities

unless they only ever actually read punk zines.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
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Xref: sparky alt.zines:411 rec.mag:340 alt.dreams:4914 rec.arts.comics.info:162
From: au462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert Drake)
Newsgroups: alt.zines,rec.mag,soc.motss,alt.postmodern,alt.slack,alt.music.hardcore,alt.cyberpunk,alt.homosexual,alt.thrash,alt.vampyres,alt.fandom.misc
Subject: Re: Latest F5 info
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:17:03 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


>(stuff about "selling our culture back to us" deleted)
>
>I dress the same as I have for two decades -- cheap, comfort-
>able and functional.   Fashion is bullshit.   People who
>concern themselves with it are idiots

uh.... you sound at least a little concerned with it yrself

lbd
From: aa704@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jennifer Engel)
Newsgroups: alt.zines
Subject: Re: Latest F5 info
Date: 24 Jan 1993 05:08:51 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aa704@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jennifer Engel)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


Zines in general have also made press in such places as the VILLAGE VOICE
and (get this) SASSY. soon to be in clevelands PLAIN DEALER if theypull
through like they say. 

-- 
Claude Debussy:
"Music is the space between the notes."
Newsgroups: alt.zines,rec.mag,soc.motss,alt.postmodern,alt.slack,alt.music.hardcore,alt.cyberpunk,alt.homosexual,alt.thrash,alt.vampyres,alt.fandom.misc,alt.startrek,rec.arts.sf.misc
From: jackson@sn.jsc.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: Latest F5 info
Reply-To: jackson@sn.jsc.nasa.gov
Organization: Organization, City, State, etc.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:04:43 GMT


>  In a posting about fanzines you say that the word fanzine "originally
>came from sci-fi rags in the early 70's". This is not correct.
>  It was invented by science fiction-fans (please avoid the word "sci-fi"!)
>but it was in 1941, already. An American sf-fan by the name Louis Russell
>Chauvenet is said to have coined the word this year. You can find the
>information in Harry Warner jr's book All Our Yesterdays, which is a
>historical work describing the history of sf-fandom (ISBN 911682-00-7,
>Library of Congress Catalog No 69-17980). My edition is from Advent
>Publishers, Chicago, and you can read about the origin of the word
>"fanzine" on page 41: 
> ..............................
 This is indeed the case. Tho I think there were such things as 
movie 'fan' magazines in the 20's and 30's they did not mean
exactly the same thing as 'SF fanzine'. Further, I dont think
there was any other fanzine-like material devoted to genre fiction
for many many many years later.
(Alas I sometime think the origins of the various 'fandoms' in
science fiction (prose, not movies, not any other kind of media)
is being lost in the mists of time. I even remember when science
fiction conventions were <only> devoted to written SF. Amazing
thought !)
..................

Newsgroups: alt.zines,rec.mag,soc.motss,alt.postmodern,alt.slack,alt.music.hardcore,alt.cyberpunk,alt.homosexual,alt.thrash,alt.vampyres,alt.fandom.misc,alt.startrek
From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: Latest F5 info
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:25:47 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <C1G2J7.K4M@news.udel.edu> cate@brahms.udel.edu (Catherine M Leonard) writes:

>
>Major resonance here. I was looking through two very mainstream fashion
>mags this weekend that had features on the Grunge Explosion in the High
>$$$ fashion markets. Clothes that I wore back in the 70s and that my
>younger friends have been purchasing from Goodwill for the last couple of
>years are being manufactured ( I WILL NOT say designed) by Lagerfeld,
>Ellis et al. A tiny knit top that sold for $9 in 1973 and $.50 at Goodwill
>today is priced out at $300+ from the big name folks. The models have
>brightly colored hair and wear Doc Martens. I feel ripped off.

  Ripped off???   YOU paid 50 cents!  Fashion-conscious women today
  are paying $300.   And YOU feel ripped off?

  If you want to see rip offs off go to a Gap or Designs or some 
  other Levi's outlet and notice how the more "pre-washed" or
  "pre-damaged" the clothes are the more they cost.   I've been
  wearing the same style of NON prewashed (the stiff blue kind),
  straight leg Levi's blue jeans for 15 years -- I wait til 
  Sears or someone runs a special sale on them then I buy a
  half dozen or so.   Ditto with the rest of my clothes -- 
  T shirts, sweatshirts, flannel shirts, sneakers (or hiking
  boots for New England winters -- as I type this I'm
  wearing a pair of Limmer boots I bought in 1978 -- it's
  hard to buy boots these days that last 15 years, and 
  these have decades of life left in them).  

  I make a ton more money now than when I was in college 20
  years ago -- I own a house, my wife and I have a 6 figure
  income, we just got back from Tahiti last month, etc, but
  I dress the same as I have for two decades -- cheap, comfort-
  able and functional.   Fashion is bullshit.   People who
  concern themselves with it are idiots.


---peter

Xref: sparky alt.zines:404 rec.mag:336 soc.motss:58624 alt.postmodern:2870 alt.slack:3955 alt.music.hardcore:1129 alt.cyberpunk:7218 alt.homosexual:690 alt.thrash:2169 alt.vampyres:2289 alt.fandom.misc:85 rec.arts.sf.misc:3831
From: meltsner@crd.ge.com (Kenneth J. Meltsner)
Newsgroups: alt.zines,rec.mag,soc.motss,alt.postmodern,alt.slack,alt.music.hardcore,alt.cyberpunk,alt.homosexual,alt.thrash,alt.vampyres,alt.fandom.misc,alt.startrek,rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: fanzine history (was Latest F5 info)
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:44:27 GMT
Reply-To: meltsner@crd.ge.com
Organization: GE Research and Development Center



I believe Chauvenet is still alive, as is Harry Warner, Jr.  I'd have
to check the most recent mailing of the Fantasy Amateur Press
Association, which is now nearly 55 years old.  Fanzines as we know
them are thought to have grown out of the Amateur Journalism movement,
although there is always a certain amount of independent and duplicate
invention.  Famous ajays include Lovecraft and Derleth, and that
movement goes back to before the turn of the century.  SF-oriented
amateur magazines appear to have become widespread in the 30s with the
growth of sf as a named genre.

Some of the folks who started fanzine fandom are still alive; a big
reason to publish fanzines these days is an opportunity to interact
with them rather than reading about them in the (fannish) history
books.

The strangest fanzine tidbit has been the adoption of the APA format
(regular publications assembled from individually contributed 'zines)
by feminist and radical political groups.  They may be called
"many-to-manys" but {feminist, radical} fans brought the concept over
from sf fandom.

===============================================================================
Ken Meltsner                        | meltsner@crd.ge.com (518) 387-6391
GE Research and Development Center  | Fax:  (518) 387-6474
P.O. Box 8, Room KWD270		    | Nothing I say should be attributed
Schenectady, NY 12301               | to my employer, and probably vice-versa
"It's probable, just not very likely." -- Fire Maidens From Outer Space.
From: sarno@titan.ucs.umass.edu (ALLROY)
Newsgroups: alt.zines
Subject: Re: RPM Museletter
Date: 23 Jan 1993 14:42:58 -0500
Organization: UIS Press
NNTP-Posting-Host: titan.ucs.umass.edu

	ATTENTION: RPM Museletter is looking for submissions of articles, 
			demos, and area information for SKA and True ALT.
			music around the world.  Send articles and info.
		 	to address above and send demos to:

				RPM Museletter
				P.O. Box 2771
				Amherst, MA  01004

	FREE COPY: Just E-mail me your postal address for the first copy.
				
				Thanx,
	
				ALLROY 


Newsgroups: alt.zines
From: gregbec@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (Greg Beckham)
Subject: rave scene zines..
Organization: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 03:30:15 GMT

would someone either  post info here or email me information about zines
concerned with the rave scene here in the us or in the uk

thanks,

gregbec@gibbs.oit.unc.edu

Newsgroups: alt.zines
From: user@computer.uio.no (PC Jorgensen)
Subject: Re: Latest F5 info
Followup-To: alt.zines,alt.fandom.misc,rec.arts.sf.misc
Organization: UiO
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:59:22 GMT

In article <1k7nk5INN17u@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, aa704@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
(Jennifer Engel) wrote:
> 
> 
> re: zines are only "punk" if they aren't sold for money, which is when they
> become minature magazines
> 
> 
> 
> so how do you expect to produce one? 

------------------------------------

In fannish fandom there is usually a high level of participation and
fanzine
activity, thus making _trade_ both attractive and simple (instead of paying
for
and receiving a lot of small subscription and subscr. orders). 

However, even we thruufhaans usually charge those who do not contribute
with
_anything_, that is, people who don't make their own -zines, are not known
for sending letters of comment, don't buy people a beer at cons [;->] etc.
I make a monthly fanzine for a fan gathering here in Oslo, and give all 
people who show up a issue. I also send/give the -zine to friends in
fandom,
Big Name Fans, fanzine publishers etc. I only charge people don't give 
_anything_, social or material, in return, and then only when they have to
receive the mag by mail.

So even we fannish fans do not exactly do the equivalent of standing on a
street corner and throwing out leaflets. But we still distribute to all
who merit our products. In fact, those who do not trade, get shunned for
breaking the fannish ethics code... 

Another point: do you really make your -zines pay? No matter what I do,
I still run up a deficit, whether charging money or not.

----------------------------

'Bout punkzines:

I do not mind them, have even read and liked a few.

What bothers me is that a lot of european punkzine publishers persist
in publishing a lot of false info on fanzine fandom, fanzine fans and
fanzine history (using just one - incorrect - source, probably).  

-----------------------------


P C Jorgensen
Graduate student
Department of East European and Oriental Studies
University of Oslo
Norway
Xref: sparky alt.zines:415 alt.music.hardcore:1150
From: bobc@pyramid.unr.edu (Bob Conrad)
Newsgroups: alt.zines,alt.music.hardcore
Subject: reply (to idiots)
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:21:58 GMT
Organization: University of Nevada, Reno  Department of Computer Science
X-Posted-From: pyramid.cs.unr.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1993Jan26.053108.2426@kth.se> ahrvid@stacken.kth.se (Ahrvid Engholm) writes:
>Comment to a posting by Bob Conrad:
>  In a posting about fanzines you say that the word fanzine "originally
>came from sci-fi rags in the early 70's". This is not correct.

good.

>  It was invented by science fiction-fans (please avoid the word "sci-fi"!)

please don't tell me what to do.


now had you actually read my post you would have notice i prefaced that
rant by saying:

	"From cometbus #29..."

tell it to aaron, not me, i didn't write it, only passed it along.
-b

YAWN


People please, I was QUOTING SOMEONE; those were not MY words to keep your
mouths shut.  and if you want my opinion, i agree with Aaron about keeping
zines alive (here in america).  that is why there are so many today.  duh.
Newsgroups: alt.zines,rec.mag,soc.motss,alt.postmodern,alt.slack,alt.music.hardcore,alt.cyberpunk,alt.homosexual,alt.thrash,alt.vampyres,alt.fandom.misc,alt.startrek
From: mhs@fokus.gmd.de (M.Schmeil)
Subject: PUNKZINES (Re: Latest F5 info)
Organization: GMD-Fokus (Berlin)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 11:34:54 GMT

hi,
    in fact i never saw anyhing else than punkzines
(maybe a few comiczines) and therefore had no idea
that other zines exists. maybe 3-5 years ago i saw the 
first zines that weren't about punk, but other kinds
of music and i was impressed about the millions of
non-punk/music zines i saw at my san francisco-trip
a few months ago. 

i don't know about the history of zines (and if there
was an article in this newsgroup about that, i skipped
it by failure - could you please repost it with the
subject HISTORY or something like that?), but i believe
that at least 99% of zines made in germany are punk-
(hc/wave/oi/etc.) zines.

and there will be a new one - my own - out soon.

- tB!
Newsgroups: alt.zines,rec.mag,soc.motss,alt.postmodern,alt.slack,alt.music.hardcore,alt.cyberpunk,alt.homosexual,alt.thrash,alt.vampyres,alt.fandom.misc,alt.startrek
From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: Latest F5 info
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:51:58 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <C1BGJM.89s@well.sf.ca.us> jerod23@well.sf.ca.us (Jerod Pore) writes:
>Factsheet Five is now real.  First class and bulk subscriptions / sample
>issues have been mailed.

  Factsheet Five WAS real for years before Mike Gunderloy passed
  it off to someone who obviously wasn't Up To The Task. 
  Unfortunately some of us had outstanding subscriptions and 
  never received our due.   Will you be resuming our subscriptions?


---peter

Newsgroups: alt.zines
From: johansc@hedda.uio.no (Johan Schimanski)
Subject: Re: Latest F5 info
Followup-To: alt.zines,rec.mag,soc.motss,alt.postmodern,alt.slack,alt.music.hardcore,alt.cyberpunk,alt.homosexual,alt.thrash,alt.vampyres,alt.fandom.misc,alt.startrek
Organization: Comparative Literature - Oslo
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 14:36:49 GMT

In article <C1Iquz.K58@apollo.hp.com>, nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter
Nelson) wrote:
> 
> In article <C1G2J7.K4M@news.udel.edu> cate@brahms.udel.edu (Catherine M Leonard) writes:

>   I make a ton more money now than when I was in college 20
>   years ago -- I own a house, my wife and I have a 6 figure
>   income, we just got back from Tahiti last month, etc, but
>   I dress the same as I have for two decades -- cheap, comfort-
>   able and functional.   Fashion is bullshit.   People who
>   concern themselves with it are idiots.
> 
> 
> ---peter

Why not cross-post this to alt.fashion?

(Maybe fashion, through its up-front challenge to puritan values, can
actually function as a subversive category in various contexts - sorry, I
just bought some neat shoes this morning - radical decadence is what I like
- and what about style rebels? - what you are attacking is commercialism,
not fashion)

Johan Schimanski             johan.schimanski@inl.uio.no
pb.1015 Blindern               N-0315 OSLO, Norway
+47-22 18 38 00                    +47-22 85 40 37
my love is like a liquid    it flow fitful day and night
Xref: sparky alt.zines:390 rec.mag:324 soc.motss:58281 alt.postmodern:2854 alt.slack:3893 alt.music.hardcore:1102 alt.cyberpunk:7175 alt.homosexual:662 alt.thrash:2150 alt.vampyres:2260 alt.fandom.misc:73
From: dmw@omaha.eel.ufl.edu (Dan Wright)
Newsgroups: alt.zines,rec.mag,soc.motss,alt.postmodern,alt.slack,alt.music.hardcore,alt.cyberpunk,alt.homosexual,alt.thrash,alt.vampyres,alt.fandom.misc,alt.startrek
Subject: Re: Latest F5 info
Date: 24 Jan 93 21:44:37 GMT
Reply-To: edo@ugrad.ee.ufl.edu
Organization: UF EE Department (Graduate Student)


The zine explosion is on. 

I heard the CNN story on ZINES (no cable = no see) and was amazed that CNN
would do a news story on such.

Alas, USA TODAY also did a story on ZINES back in AUGUST.  I believe Ace Backwords picture appeared in the story.

UTNE reader has also done some "zine reviews."  

The news is spreading...

-- 
-----------------------------------------------
|    _                                        |
|   | \ |\/| |  |       /|\  sioux.ee.ufl.edu |
|   |_/ |  | |/\|       \|/                   |
-----------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.zines
From: bobc@pyramid.unr.edu (Bob Conrad)
Newsgroups: alt.zines,rec.mag,soc.motss,alt.postmodern,alt.slack,alt.music.hardcore,alt.cyberpunk,alt.homosexual,alt.thrash,alt.vampyres,alt.fandom.misc,alt.startrek
Subject: Re: Latest F5 info
Date: 27 Jan 93 01:19:54 GMT
Organization: University of Nevada, Reno  Department of Computer Science
X-Posted-From: pyramid.cs.unr.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <C1G2J7.K4M@news.udel.edu> cate@brahms.udel.edu (Catherine M Leonard) writes:
>Major resonance here. I was looking through two very mainstream fashion
>mags this weekend that had features on the Grunge Explosion in the High
>$$$ fashion markets. Clothes that I wore back in the 70s and that my
>younger friends have been purchasing from Goodwill for the last couple of
>years are being manufactured ( I WILL NOT say designed) by Lagerfeld,
>Ellis et al. A tiny knit top that sold for $9 in 1973 and $.50 at Goodwill
>today is priced out at $300+ from the big name folks. The models have
>brightly colored hair and wear Doc Martens. I feel ripped off. It *almost*
>enough to make me toss my combat boots. At least the American models
>aren't sporting body piercing. Yet. <sigh> That would be too much.
>(although I've seen European models with pierced noses)
>
>Guess it's about time to re-invent myself again. (If it's good enuf for
>Anais Nin I guess it's good enuf for me. :-) )

MR&R had a decent article by Samuel Nathan Schiffman about all this.
it was a few months ago...)
Newsgroups: alt.zines,rec.mag,soc.motss,alt.postmodern,alt.slack,alt.music.hardcore,alt.cyberpunk,alt.homosexual,alt.thrash,alt.vampyres,alt.fandom.misc,alt.startrek