HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: an4340@anon.penet.fi
Subject: First Time
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 04:28:56 GMT

 X-Anon To: alt.transgendered :_
       Wow Vickie, so you just want to look and be treated like that. eh?
        How DOES a SLUTTY girl look?

       Curiously yours,
                 Tara. 
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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an2967@anon.penet.fi (Tierney Dhewitrei)
Subject: bras and what to put in them
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 21:36:00 GMT

I would like to know how everyone out there determines bra size.
I have settle on a 38B but this was through trial and error.  Also,
a 38B from Sears fits differently then a 38B from Penneys.  At first
I used the method given in the catalogs.  This always gave me a
chest that was too large and obviously, a cup size that was too
small.  I think that I wear a bra that's a bit small in order to
accomodate my version of artificial breasts, water balloons.  I
think the bra has to be a bit tighter then if my breasts were
actually a part of me (sigh). :-)

And how about substitutes for breasts?  Like many of you I started
with socks.  I then moved to water balloons and from there to
polyester stuffing you can find in most sewing departments.  I
have since gone back to the water balloons because they look and
feel more realistic.  Any insights from you girls out there?

How do you like my new doo? -> ~{:-)  (short on the sides with a pony tail)

Hugs
Tierney

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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an5328@anon.penet.fi (Shelley P.)
Subject: Postings
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 00:37:13 GMT

Anon keeps telling me that my postings are successful, but I haven't
seen anything on the group.  If someone sees this, please reply and let
me know if it showed up.


Thanks,

    Shelley


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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: jaf@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (J Anthony Fitzgerald)
Subject: Re: is it the body or the brain?
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 00:58:39 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.190359.7320@colorado.edu> devin@colorado.edu (No one in particular) writes:
>People who make claims like "women are more intuitive, men are more logical"
>are talking about gender stereotypes and gender roles, not gender identity.

True probably in general, however, there is research that indicates that
there are some surprising differences in mental processing between the
sexes.  The September 1992 issue of Scientific American was a special issue
on Brain and Mind and makes some very interesting reading.  There are some
very interesting articles and the article on Sex differences in the brain are
probably of strong interest to readers of this newsgroup.

Some points are raised with speculation on whether sex based roles in a hunter
gatherer society might select for some of the observed differences.  For example
it was found that men tend to remember travelling routes by direction and
distance while women tend to use landmarks.  In a hunter gatherer society the
men tend to travel far afield hunting while women tend to stay closer to home
gathering local produce.  While men do tend on average to have better ability
to do abstract mathematical reasoning, women have better arithmetic and
observational skills.  The comment has been made that perhaps the traditional
stereotype of male engineer has some validity, in contract to the traditional
stereotype women would probably on average make better doctors.

Lest I be opening myself to criticism as a male chauvinist, I will hasten to
add that I believe that all of these "on average" and "tends to" simply reflect
the heights of bell curves of relative scores between men and women.  That women
at the high end of the curve will be well above the average man and men at the
low end of the curve are well below the average woman on those curves where the
women's scores were below men's.  The reverse is true where the scores are also
reversed.

What is really fascinating is that homosexuals tend to perform in such sex
based skill tests in the range of the opposite sex.  I have not seen similar
studies based on gender confusion.  Perhaps readers of this list are more
aware than I of such studies.  I would like to read a summary.  I suspect that
it would be a much harder study to conduct as I gather from reading the posts
in this group that Cross Dressing may be a manifestation of several different
dysfunctions while homosexuality seems to be fairly "straight" forward.
-- 
J. Anthony Fitzgerald    jaf@UNB.ca	(506) 453-4573
Computing Services  UofNB  Box 4400	(506) 453-3590  (FAX)
Fredericton, NB,  CANADA,  E3B 5A3
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an5248@anon.penet.fi
Subject: still going...
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:28:13 GMT

attemp # fri-cg

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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an4911@anon.penet.fi
Subject: Re: Hey
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 09:21:52 GMT

This is a test. I will be posting here often in the the coming months.

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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an2967@anon.penet.fi (Tierney Dhewitrei)
Subject: corsets?
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:42:00 GMT

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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: glenn@moeng2.morgan.edu (D. Glenn Arthur Jr.)
Subject: Re: hsitorical figures
Summary: Transvestite Governor, if I remember right
Organization: The Space-Time Fabrication Institute, Rockville, MD.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 17:55:13 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.012226.27820@fuug.fi> an857@anon.penet.fi (Sasha) writes:
>
>	Wasn't there a mayor of chicago/nyc that used to go about 
>	the streets dressed in womens' apparel ?

Unless I'm mistaken (which is not unlikely), you're thinking of a
governor of New York while it was still a British colony.  Anyone
able to confirm or correct this?


-- 
D. Glenn Arthur Jr.          The Human Vibrator              glenn@digex.com
"Being a _man_ means knowing that one has a choice not to act like a 'man'."

There is now a TV/TS newsgroup, alt.transgendered.  (I'd hoped for a soc.*
group, but oh well...)
From: w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Re: is it the body or the brain?
Date: 6 Jan 93 12:53:54 GMT
Reply-To: w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk
Organization: Chemical & Process Engineering Dept, University of Newcastle, UK.

an2967@anon.penet.fi (Tierney Dhewitrei) writes:

>I notice that most of us speak about being in the wrong body.
>For me this is difficult to handle.  What seems to be more
>plausable is that I'm in the correct body, my brain is just
>confused.  I guess it's easier to think it is environment
>rather then a mistake God made.  Now this is the view of a
>CDer that has been CDing for 30+ years and has never attempted
>to discuss it with a professional (psychologist or otherwize).
>So what's the answer?  I know, if we knew that we would all be
>either 'healed' or (what I would prefer) running around in our
>favorite blouse and skirt when and where we please.  So, am I
>the only one that feels this way, or are there others that
>think that maybe it is a psychological problem and not a
>physical one.  Am I reducing beyond the lowest common
>denominator?


  In the book "Accounting for transsexualism and transhomosexuality"
by Dr Brian Tully a psychologist, he describes some of 200 cases
he dealt with during 8 years of work at Charing Cross Hospital in 
the Gender Identity Clinic.  

  It is an interesting book and as the jacket says "It is hoped 
this book will be of use to anyone who needs to cope with this unusal
form of human despair, whether they encounter it within themselves
or someone close to them, or in a professional capacity"

   He wrote that a very large proportion of the male patients wanting
TS treatment also suffered from various mental illnesses.

  He seems to subscribe to the idea that the most powerful thing in
how people identify themselves is the way they are brought up, and
that for most people who consider themselves transsexual it is
caused by not have a normal gender identification.
  
  During their youth when they are learning the roles males and
females are supposed to fill, for what ever reason, they cannot 
fulfill the these standard roles.  As a way of protecting themselves
phychologically some come to hold the belief that they are really 
members of the opposite gender.
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an1599@anon.penet.fi
Subject: Corsets
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 05:00:07 GMT



Any corset fans out there?

YES!  I have wanted to try one for a long time!  I love tight clothes of 
any kind.  I would like to also get a rubber hobble skirt and matching rubber
corset.

Heather

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From: russw@cs.utexas.edu (Russ Williams)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Re: Hi again...
Date: 7 Jan 1993 00:05:49 -0600
Organization: Great Northern Hotel
NNTP-Posting-Host: im4u.cs.utexas.edu

Wow, Celeste, you are well-connected... think you could explain for
newbies what all those organizations are?  (Tri-Ess, Tapestry,
ETVC, AEGIS, etc).

Russ
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an857@anon.penet.fi (Sasha)
Subject: No Subject
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 18:06:26 GMT

Hi all,

	The notes on the newgroup have been real interesting. I think 
	this moral over-the-wire support group has been real helpfull
	to others besides myself. With that, I'd like to add a few
	comments and questions.

	Check the recent Discovery (Jan '93), pp. 55. The article on
	'Gay Genes' may be of interest. 'Homosexuality may be more than
	a state of mind. Studies over the past two years have offered
	tantalizing clues that the brains of gay men are physically
	different from the brains of heterosexula men. The studies are
	controversial, but if the differences are real, researchers would
	love to know when they cam about: during puberty, in the womb,
	or perhaps even earlier, in the genes'. Now that leads me to
	consider the same for us.

	A few others have interest in the PBS show about a ts going for
	SRS and the Donahue show recently about CDing and such. I would 
	also be interested in viewing this, if someone who as them would
	make copies for a nominal fee. Also, some time back Tula Cossey 
	was on Donahue and that was a VERY interesting program, wished
	I'd taped that one!

	As for clothes, my favorite is Victoria Secrets' for the simpler
	things in life. I also love waring a bit of makeup to work.

	As a new years res, I decided to tell my wife about my needs/wants/
	desires and she was not too receptive. Since then, she's taken it 
	in stride, but I doubt I'll ever get what I really want ... breasts, 
	and true understanding! I also told my X, who earlier said she wants 
	me back, but she was really vociferous about any doings if I went tv. 
	Well who needs that. Oh well.... we'll see what happens.

	A BIG hug and thanks to all those that have send me mail... love
	ya all. it would be really nice to have a get-together of the group
	I could attend. Over the wire is helpfull, but in person would be 
	best.

	Love,
	  Sasha


P.S.	To those about the business venture, I'm still working on a proto-
	type (parallel processing system), so stay tuned.
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From: w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu (Lorraine Lee)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Re: Teaching a Psych of Gender class- looking for YOUR help!
Date: 8 Jan 93 03:22:42 GMT
Reply-To: w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester, MI

In article <C0Dx5s.GG7@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v065hjku@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Jason Osborne) writes:

>I am a graduate student at SUNY BUFFALO, NY, USA, and am teaching
>a psychology of gender class this spring.  I am looking for innovative
>ways of tackling the subject, and stumbling upon this newsgroup seemed
>like a godsend.  I am asking for your help and for you to contribute to
>my class. 

Couple of years ago I read a newspaper piece about "Anthropology 201" at Wayne
County Community College (Wayne County, Michigan).  It's supposed to be about
urban subcultures in general or something; I distinctly recall that they
mentioned transsexuals.  I haven't taken the course, or any courses at WC3. 
Just something I read about.  You might want to contact the college and who
ever teaches Anthropology 201.
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: russw@cs.utexas.edu (Russ Williams)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Re: "The Crying Game"
Date: 7 Jan 1993 00:29:23 -0600
Organization: Great Northern Hotel
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: im4u.cs.utexas.edu

I thought it was a good film; in fact I'm going to see it a second
time with some "fresh" friends, because I think a lot of the dialog
early on contains many clever bits that make more sense once you've
seen all that happens later on.  It was not the incredible masterpiece
that some reviews indicated, but I thought it was good and quite
worth seeing, especially for folks who enjoy unusual movies.  It
really mixes several genres in an odd experimental fashion.  The
acting and direction were good, too.

Besides, it beats the hell out of standard Hollywood sequel clone movies.

Russ
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: devin@colorado.edu (No one in particular)
Subject: Re: is it the body or the brain?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:29:32 GMT

Solveig Throndardottir (bnostran@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu) wrote:
: I think that you are missing the point of the in utero etiology theory.
: The important thing is not the experiences of the mother during gestation,
: it is the experiences of the feoutus.  Specifically, it is whether certain
: hormonal events take place or not.  It is not a matter of whether the
: mother saw a skunk during pregnancy or something like that.  The theory is
: based on laboratory research findings which have already been mentioned in
: this group. 

Sorry, maybe I should have been more clear about this.  The research I've
seen has shown that the mother's stress levels during pregnancy can affect
the hormone balance in utero, and therefore the later behavior of the child.
I happen to know that my mother was _very_ stressed during her pregnancy with
me, and it is in my opinion a possible factor.

			-Deb

--
Deborah Parks (RP90)  (SotM 7/91)  DoD #0034  deb@boulder.colorado.edu   ------
"It's being both that's a bitch."                                      --\--- /
"I wanted to take my brain to hell and back and see what I had left."  \  \ //
"This howling in the distance, it's a captivating sound.                \  \/
        Can't tell if it's ecstasy or pain..."  -DW                      \/
From: russw@cs.utexas.edu (Russ Williams)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Re: is it the body or the brain?
Date: 5 Jan 1993 19:55:33 -0600
Organization: Great Northern Hotel
NNTP-Posting-Host: im4u.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1993Jan5.215349.2539@fuug.fi> an2967@anon.penet.fi (Tierney Dhewitrei) writes:
>I notice that most of us speak about being in the wrong body.
>For me this is difficult to handle.  What seems to be more
>plausable is that I'm in the correct body, my brain is just
>confused.  I guess it's easier to think it is environment
>rather then a mistake God made.

I tend to think of the body's sex as neither right nor wrong, but
just whatever we happened to be born with.  I think our sexual
identity comes mostly from socialization not from genes.  I'm aware
that this view is not common.  But there's so much evidence of how
children are treated differently according to their sex, e.g.
teachers paying more attention to boys and encouraging them to do
math while teaching girls to just be quiet and pretty, all that jazz.
I incline to the theory that TS folks who feel like they're in the
wrong body started out like the rest of us, a non-sex-identified
mind in a male or female physical body, and just got socialized
differently.  But I freely admit I could be completely wrong;
the human mind is a real mystery.

To me, sex is like race, etc.; it's a physical attribute of our
body that certainly does have social implications (women and blacks
are treated differently from men and whites) and it certainly
affects our self-view.  They even both affect sexual preference
for many people.  But, at risk of offending some posters, I'm
not sure that the idea of "a male trapped in a female's body"
makes much more sense to me than the idea of "a white trapped in a
black's body".  But then I seem to feel less gendertyped than
average; if it were cheap easy & safe I'd switch my sex back
and forth at whim...  And I've always been skeptical of people
claiming real qualitative differences between the sexes, e.g.
cliches like "women are more intuitive, men are more logical".

I would be interested to hear whether folks who feel they are
definitely in the wrong sex body for them attribute this to
inherent stuff (in your genes or your soul, depending on your
mental framework :-) or to your upbringing and socialization.

Russ
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an2881@anon.penet.fi (Shannon)
Subject: Hi again...
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:08:09 GMT

X-Anon-To: alt.transgendered

Happy New Year Everyone - It seems that there are a lot of new girls out there
	in net-land. Probably because everybody is getting the hang of the
	anon system. Good! It gives us all a look at the various origins and
	needs of our community, as well as some individual insecurities and
	an opportunity to get some advice from someone who lives with the same
	mind that we do. A lllooonnnggg time ago, I went to a psych(something)
	because my parents caught me wearing my sisters clothes. I wish I could
	remember anything that was said, but my parents got the "lowdown" 
	because they were "the parents" - I was 12 I think. Soon after this
	started, and I was not getting anything out of this at all of course, I
	spoke with my father and told him that the girl clothes made me feel
	like I was "touching" a woman, therefore helping me to masturbate - it
	made me "male" again after he heard this, and all was dropped and never
	mentioned again. I never got caught again either - except a couple of
	years ago but that's another story for another time.

	I guess I just rambled, but has anyone around my age (34) gone to a
	psy(ch(either one) and discussed CDing with any conclusions? Has it
	seemed to "help" in any way? I'm curious because I feel like I should
	have been a female, but I am male, but then I'd like to be a gay female
	most of all, but I don't have any motivation to change. I'd be one
	really sad looking female! (or not, who knows?) The funny thing to me
	is that I'm REALLY SERIOUSLY comfortable being me the way I am. I don't
	have that sig-other problem because I really don't feel a need to have
	a girlfriend/relationship. Everytime I tried to be (quote) normal (quote	), I felt like I was giving up too much of what I wanted to do. 

	So... any comments? I'll welcome even harsh comments, because everyone
	has an opinion and I'll listen. If you want a comment back, let me
	know.

	By the way, thanks to Celeste for being the adopted newsgroup guru!

					Love You,
					     - Shannon
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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: mitchell@seas.smu.edu (Utopium Enterprizes)
Subject: d'Eon
Organization: Utopium Enterprizes
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:53:49 GMT

Heya loves, Dora Gyn here again...

Wellwellwell... the thread on the Chevalier d'Eon disappears before I could
reply to it... :/

Has anyone read the *Historical Illuminatus Chronicles* by Robert Anton Wilson?
The third book in the series, *Nature's God*, has the Chevalier as a minor,
MINOR character. Apparently sie is not just dressed because the king ordered
hir to; sie seems to enjoy the feminine role.

Which reminds me of another TG character in a RA Wilson book... *Schroedinger's
Cat* features a TS named Epicene/Mary Margaret Wildebloode, a character who
wasn't originally transgendered in *Illuminatus!*... well, at least there was
no mention of it... But it's a funny book, and Mary Margaret's character, as
funny as it may well be, is treated with dignity despite the absurdity. :)

*hugs*,
Dora Gyn
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an4797@anon.penet.fi (Tina)
Subject: TS visibility
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 23:30:00 GMT


This is actually a test to make sure that anon is doing the right thing. I 
have some ideas on TS visibility and community that may make for worthwhile 
discussion.

./Tina

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