Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 10:06:59 EDT
From: <THS1@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Should Indian states need more autonomy?
 <92252.110355THS1@psuvm.psu.edu> <BuA0L4.Kxu@cs.psu.edu>

In article <BuA0L4.Kxu@cs.psu.edu>, narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T
Narayana) says:

[... lots deleted ...]

I had asked:
>>What is the guarantee that goondas will not gain control at the centre?
>>Will we rely on the USA (oops, the UN) to bomb India back to stone ages
>>in such a case? What is your criteria for deciding that CPM, TDP, DMK
>>are goondas? Do you think that Sanjay Gandhi was a goonda?
>>
K.T.Narayana replies:
>The probability that goondas gain control of the whole nation is less
>than the probability  that they control a state. Sovereign democratic
>states follow the constitutional principles which limit the authority.

So it is only a matter of probability? Given enough time, the improbable
will happen. What will you do then?

[... deleted ...]
KTN:
>as terroristic. So they are goondas. As for DMK, they are born goondas.
>One doesn't need any justification to say the same about that cultureless
>lot.

Are your criteria for deciding who are goondas mentioned in the
constitution?

I had said:
>>I see. You approve of General Dyer's use of Gurkha troops to fire on
>>the Punjabis at Jalianwalla Bagh in 1919 to maintain "law and order".
>>
KTN:
>Where an act of maintaining the law and order is performed in liu of
>professional goals, I do. In the case of Dyes use of force, such use of
>force was made on unarmed civilians. You should think a little bit
>more soundly.

Are you saying that GOI's law and order machinery has never killed
unarmed civilians?

KTN:
>Frankly, I you can come to me and say "Look! I have this guy from this
>place you mentioned, and he is not a Maal" I will certainly revise
>my opinions. Till that time they linger.

Get ready to revise your opinion then. I do know very bright people
who happened to be from Agra and Meerut.

KTN:
>Frankly IISc is one cosmopolitan place where you study a lot and politic
>very little. It is not like IITK where they train many of these
>terroristic naxalites of the PSGA.

You forgot to add (about IISc) "and cultivate bigoted opinions".

KTN:
>No! we don't take guns ourselves. We are a law abiding people.
>We use the law enforcement agencies to destroy these terrorists
>called naxalites! have you hugged your naxalite today!

Pardon me for suggesting that you should pick up the gun yourself.
I forgot that your class has money. So you just hire some poor
people, and arm them to shoot other poor people who disturb your
night's sleep (and probably are cultureless, to boot).

Original KTN:
>>>Union government does not have the power to get rid of state govts
>>>at will! It does so only according to the constitution. Even the
My reply:
>>Perhaps you should *read* the constitution. Dismissing a state govt
>>at will (by centre) is not contrary to the Indian Constitution.
>>That is why a state govt can not challenge its dismissal in the
>>Supreme Court.
KTN again:
>All actions of the union govt are within the scope of the law!
>You get your facts right. It deals with those actions that deal
>with the dismissal of state govts. The fact is none of these
>goonda chiefministers chose to go to the court of law. They
>knew that they were constitutionally and legally dismissed.

If you actually read the constitution, you would have found a
paragraph which says that the state ministry functions at the
PLEASURE of the governor. Thus a governor can dismiss a state
ministry by withdrawing his/her pleasure. It does not matter whether
the ministry has the confidence of the legislature when the pleasure
criterion is invoked. Because the governor is appointed by the
centre, the centre can indeed dismiss a state govt (constitutionally)
at will. Because the constitution permits such dismissal, a deposed
chief minister would have no ground on which to contest centre's
action in a court of law.

This is my last post on this thread.
T.H.Sanyal.