HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stojanov@husc11.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: Serbian elections
Date: 25 Dec 92 17:38:55 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1992Dec25.043557.20259@eng.umd.edu> josip@eng.umd.edu (Josip Loncaric) writes:
>In article <1992Dec23.162232.18802@husc3.harvard.edu> stojanov@husc11.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec22.151602.20807@eng.umd.edu> josip@eng.umd.edu (Josip Loncaric) writes:
>>
>>>As an example, "Do istrage vase ili nase" ("Until extermination yours
>>>of ours", by Serbian lawyer Nikola Stojadinovic) .................
>>> Josip
>>
>
>The controversy surrounding this article is described in many history
>books.  I, however, didn't get it from Tudjman, or any of the other guys,
>but I did learn about this from a secondary source.

Good, my impression was correct.

>
>"Do istrage vase ili nase" has, to put it mildly, not been received very
>well in Croatia in 1902, when it was written.  Its author does denigrate
>Croats in various ways, to make his point that Serbs ought to rule
>over Croats.  The uncompromising attitude is clear from the title.
>

No, the conclusion is that due to that inferiority complex, 
everything will end up in mutual extermination.  This is according to
the Laza M. Kostic.  Compare with Neubachers discussions with 
Hitler, where you had almost the same conclusion! Hitler actually decided
to play on that card - divide et impera - while Neubacher was opposed to 
it. 

BTW, reaction was that clericals organised violent mob that went around
Agram and destroyed Serbian shops, killed Serbs, etc.  I read recently 
article describing it under the name "Arnautluk u Zagrebu." 8-). 
It was published in Novi Sad, 1903. 

>"Until extermination yours or ours" could not possibly be correct.  This
>is no way to resolve anything.  Where dou you get such crazy ideas?

No, you took it out of context.  
It was proven in 1941 where that inferiority complex, observed by Nikola
Stoja(di)novic will lead. BTW, author is, according to Laza Kostic,
Catholic from Bosnia.  Laza Kostic calls him Croat, but I wouldn't bet on
it. 

>
>Harvard ought to have it.  Look it up.

Josip, do you think that Harvard keeps all old "Srbobrans," where 
that article was printed?  

>
>-Josip

Have a great Christmas and Holiday,

Milan
From: stojanov@husc11.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: Democracy
Date: 29 Dec 92 23:12:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Dec29.181216.18891
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1992Dec29.214233.12419@hpcvca.cv.hp.com> scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn) writes:

>
>Slovenia can't be blamed in any way, except in your mind.  To say that
>Slovenia is to blame for the war is ridiculous.  To compare it to knowledge
>of a crime to be committed is ludicrous.

I agree with this.  Slovenia minded exclusively their own interests, 
as it should have been done.  I hope that Serbs have learned a good 
lesson from their ex-countrymen ( Both Croats and Slovenes ). 


>>
>The Serbs have invaded Bosnia and are systematically killing, raping and
>destroying a race.  

Gee, those Serbs, they came out of nowhere into Bosnia.
Besides keeping 2000 miles frontline, some 50.000 of them had
time to rape daily some 60.000 women.  Yap.  That is actually the main
goal of this war.  To rape.  Living under the degenerated rule of 
declared Islamic fundamentalists had nothing to do with that. 
Self determination has meaning only when it is applied to Slovenians,
not to those under the Byzantine-Ottoman influence. BTW, what is this
new race?  "Bosnians?"

>I don't care what happened 500, 100, 50 years ago: the
>current events are WRONG.  The Serbs are at fault, and will continue to
>be at fault until it is over.
>

Jury, D.A., judge and executioner at the same time.  Another Erland-like.
Why are Serbs at fault?  Because you read about them mostly and you 
are not willing to think more about it, or because you are partially of
xxx-origin?

>Scott Linn
>scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com

Milan N. Stojanovic
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn)
Subject: Re: Panic ousted as Yugoslavia's prime minister
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 22:44:17 GMT

: Meanwhile, in Bosnia & Herzegovina, UPI and other news services reported 
: worsening conditions in Sarajevo, where the temperature is around -10C.
: Some nursing-home residents have begun dying of cold and malnutrition,
: and a spokesman for the UN High Commissioner for Refugees said there 
: is a real danger that children in the city will begin dying from
: lack of food and heat as well. A UN-escorted team that was trying to
: restore utility service to Sarajevo was turned back by a Serb military
: commander, and was unable to attempt repairs. The city has
: been without electricity, heat, and running water for weeks.

Yeah, it takes some "real men" to fight such a tough war against Bosnia...

Sigh.

Scott Linn
scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: medvidov@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Nenad Medvidovid)
Subject: OOPS 
Reply-To: medvidov@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Nenad Medvidovid)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:53:22 GMT

	My apologies for the double posting.
Nenad
From: cosysop@zamir-bg.comlink.de
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: The Peace Movement of Voivodina
Date: 27 Dec 92 16:29:54 GMT
Reply-To: cosysop@zamir-bg.comlink.de
Organization: Zamir = for peace, Beograd
Content-Length: 2085
X-Gateway: UC xclhh [UZERCP V3.99]

## Nachricht vom 25.12.92 weitergeleitet
## Ursprung : /ZAMIR/PEACE-GROUPS/INFORMATION
## Ersteller: COSYSOP@ZAMIR-BG.ZER


                                    PMV

                           POKRET ZA MIR VOJVODINE

                         The Peace Movement of Vojvodina

                               Maksima Gorkog 10
                               21000 Novi Sad
                               Voivodina
                               (Jugoslavia)

                               Tel. + 38 21 619 019

Dear Friends,

The Peace Movement in Novi Sad was founded on July 25th 1991 as the
response to the Yugoslav civil war.

Th emain purpose of this organisation is to prevent any use of the
armed forces and as well as to stop the war that is going on in our
country.

The Peace Movement of Novi Sad wishes to include every person or
group interested in peaceful life, regardless of his or its
political views, mother tongue, religion, nationality, age or sex.

The programme of the Peace Movement is as follows:

  -it intends to be in contact with every peace movment in our country
   and all over the world;
  -it wants to point out that the great majority of Yugoslav citiztens
   do not approve of the official politics of the country and they do not
   want to take part in the civil war. We support every person who refuses
   to take part in it.

We believe that the reason of our present-day troubles is the revival of
the nationalism that brought hatred among our peoples. Press, radio and
TV programmes encouraged it a lot, since they were not fighting against
national hatred and for the freedom of the press. Our position is
difficult since we are regarded as traitors. We are not allowed to
speak about peace. There are many trials going on against persons of
our attitude, therefor we are expecting your support.

We would also appreciate very much your efforts in letting people know
about our problems and this letter.

                    The Peace Movement of Vojvodina
                    Novi Sad

                    Slavenka Lubic


## CrossPoint v1.21 ##
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: bill@cognet.ucla.edu (William M. Eldridge)
Subject: Election results?
Organization: UCLA Cognitive Science Research Program
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:44:59 GMT

If anyone has preliminary election results for Yugoslavia,
could you please post them?  Thanks.
-- 
{{{{ bill eldridge           310-206-3960                x                }}}}
{{{{ bill@cognet.ucla.edu    310-206-3987 fax           xxx              }}}}
{{{{ ~more, ~better, ~faster [80's motto]                x              }}}}
{{{{ ~hot, ~toxic, and ~shallow [90's motto]                              }}}}
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn)
Subject: Re: Democracy
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 21:42:33 GMT

pshane@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Ana M. Shane) writes:
: 
: The Slovenian government decision to secede from Yugoslavia was
: maybe good for Slovenian people, but it was nevertheless immoral.

Morality is a personal statement.

: It was immoral because as anybody in Yugoslavia at that time (1990-1991)
: could have told you, they were perfectly aware that their secession is
: enabling the Secession of Croatia and then Bosnia-Herzegovina, Macedonia.
: And they were perfectly aware that these other secessions were leading
: straight into the war.
:
: So, they didn't do anything bad. They have "just" opened the door to
: hell. They can't really be blamed by any national and international
: laws, but their decision was like: "Here we go guys: Hang in there!"
: If that is moral... It is just as if somebody knew about the crime to
: be commited, knew that they could have prevented it, but still walked away.

Slovenia can't be blamed in any way, except in your mind.  To say that
Slovenia is to blame for the war is ridiculous.  To compare it to knowledge
of a crime to be committed is ludicrous.

I can't believe all the child-like fighting going on between people in this
forum: "Look at these atrocities" "Well, it's okay, because someone did
something 50 years ago"  "I found a reference that says...".  Sheesh.

The Serbs have invaded Bosnia and are systematically killing, raping and
destroying a race.  I don't care what happened 500, 100, 50 years ago: the
current events are WRONG.  The Serbs are at fault, and will continue to
be at fault until it is over.

Scott Linn
scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com
From: mirsip@risky.ecs.umass.edu (Ivan Popstefanija)
Subject: A joke
Organization: University of Massachusets, Amherst
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:20:30 GMT


 A Srbin kaze:

	"Nas i Rusa   - 250 miliona"
	"Nas i Kineza - 1 milijarda"
	"Nas i Hrvata - sve manje i manje..."

---------------------------------------------

 Sretni Praznici Svima i Mir na Zemlji !

---------------------------------------------
From: Chrys Pelegris <chrysp@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: MILS?!
X-To: ALL
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 17:06:30 GMT

Hmm.. maybe its a problem on my end, but I don't think so.

Did anyone bomb MILS headquarters or something?  I've been waiting for the
lastest Skopjian propaganda, for weeks now, nothing.

Its like taking the comics section away from the newspaper, I want MILS
back!

Either send your responses in email or publically, publically would be better
because I'm sure other people are wondering the same thing..

Sigh..

  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Chrys Pelegris  |  ===__-+-                          WWIVNet:35@4650
    Toronto Canada  | Internet: chrysp@zooid.guild.org   FidoNet: *N/A*
---
 * SLMR 2.1a * "I drank what?!?" * Socrates
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Subject: Re: Macedonia: Reality versus History.
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 20:40:00 GMT

dlatane@hibbs.vcu.edu (David E. Latane) writes:

>ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis ) writes. 

>> Excuse me David, but where are you geting your information about "anti-slav"
>> feelings in Greece?  It is ridiculous to believe such things.
>> You are off reality.

>I suppose I should clarify. Since Greeks will not accept the
>existence of a slavic Macedonian people, and insist that they can dictate to
>other people their name and ethnicity,

 Excuse me? There is a difference between Slavic Macedonian and Macedonian.

 My feeling is, from what I have discussed with many people in Greece the
 last summer, that they wouldn't object to a name like Slavic Macedonia.
 The people are not itching for trouble with Skopje, but they have to react
 when they see those people using the symbol of ancient Macedonians in the
 flag of Skopje, when they read in the papers that maps depicting northern
 Greece as a part of their state are being published etc.

 The problem of Skopje is a Slavic problem, not a Greek one.  Slavs have
 created it, they are the ones who should solve it.  The Greeks simply
 want to leave them in peace!!!

>Pozdrav. Mir.
 
 Likewise, although I don't know what it means.

>>>D. Latane

 Panos Tamamidis
From: robohen@ocf.berkeley.edu (Henry Robertson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: BUYING YUGOSLAV CURRENCY
Date: 22 Dec 1992 06:10:10 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: tsunami.berkeley.edu

I am collecting foreign currencies.  If interested, please respond by e-mail
to robohen@ocf.berkeley.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe
From: vkb57@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Macedonia: Reality versus History.
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 18:07:15 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.033937.22062@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> gd8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Gregory  Dandulakis) writes:
>In article <1992Dec30.071739.7477@cas.org> vkb57@cas.org () writes:
>>
>>Oh,  come of it,  you now better than that.  You have read the Encyclopedia
>>Britannica estimates of 150 000 - 180 000 in todays Greece about thousand
>>times by now;  and the Todor Simovski's papers on tracking the Macedonian
>>population of Aegean Macedonia vilage-by-village since 1903 (you posted parts
>>of them), comming up with about 250 000 Macedonians remaining;  and the US
>>State Department reports;  and the EC reports (which you posted.)  Proofs are
>>wasted on you.
>
>
>Oh, come on. You know from Harvard encyclopedia that the Skopjian
>ethnicity was invented 30 years after the greek lands were liberated.
>It didn't have time to be exported yet.
>Greece, EC and State Dept speak for 30-50,000 slav-speakers of greek
>discent, like those who are coming now from Russia.

"Skopjian" ethnicity was invented about a year ago, probably by Samaras and
Co., many years after the Harward encyclopedia was printed in 1980.
Macedonian ethnicity,  on the other hand,  if that is what you really meant to
say,  has been around for some time.  The notoriety of the strugle of the
Macedonians for liberation at the turn of the century and the slogan
"Macedonia for the Macedonians,"  made it well known throughout the world
(except possibly in Greece,  where these news may have been considered
subversive.)

As far as what the State Department report on Greece speaks about,  you seem
to have forgotten,  you may want to read it again,  it has nothing to do with
Russians comming.  Make sure to read the 1990 one.
>>They are the natives,  not the immigrants,  their ancestors have lived there
>>for 14 centuries.  It was your grandfather that immigrated there,  not theirs.
>
>And the Macedonians are natives there for 24 centuries. It was your
>greatgrandfather that invaded there and destroyed everything, not theirs.

Would yo by any chance be talking of the Slavs comming to the Balkans in the
7th century and continuing down to the Peloponnesus.  That was a long time
ago,  wasn't.  And they may be your greatgrandfathers as much as they are
mine, so dont say bad things about them for no good reason.

And in case my statemnt above wasn't quite clear,  I was not complaining about
your grandfather and many others immigrating to Macedonia after being expelled
(or "exchanged") from Asia Minor by the Turks.  I was complaining about the
treatment the natives got and about your confusinmg the natives and the
immigrants.

>Gr
V

Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: josip@eng.umd.edu (Josip Loncaric)
Subject: Re: Serbian elections
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 04:35:57 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

In article <1992Dec23.162232.18802@husc3.harvard.edu> stojanov@husc11.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic) writes:
>In article <1992Dec22.151602.20807@eng.umd.edu> josip@eng.umd.edu (Josip Loncaric) writes:
>
>>As an example, "Do istrage vase ili nase" ("Until extermination yours
>>of ours", by Serbian lawyer Nikola Stojadinovic) .................
>> Josip
>
>First, isn't it Stojanovic, not Stojadinovic?

Another Stojanovic?  A relation of yours?  I don't think so, because
I remember checking the name twice (Stojadinovic was one of Serbian
politicians in the late 1930s, obviously a different guy by the same
last name).  Anyway, I do not think your last name (Stojanovic) has
the monopoly on anti-Croat tirades.

>Second, and much more important I have a rather strong feeling that 
>you know this article only indirectly.  You are just repeating what you 
>have found into Banac, Tudjman, Tasovac, Aralica-group articles.
>According to Laza M. Kostic, this article is about strong inferiority 
>complex Croats used to feel toward Serbs, for they were not able to 
>form state.  Similar opinions were found in German analysis of the
>situation in NDH during the WWII, and, to some extent could be backed 
>by earlier authors like F. Miklosic and by Starcevic's work.

The controversy surrounding this article is described in many history
books.  I, however, didn't get it from Tudjman, or any of the other guys,
but I did learn about this from a secondary source.

"Do istrage vase ili nase" has, to put it mildly, not been received very
well in Croatia in 1902, when it was written.  Its author does denigrate
Croats in various ways, to make his point that Serbs ought to rule
over Croats.  The uncompromising attitude is clear from the title.

>My impression is that you are again trying to impress ignorant 
>readers by title of this article, which was proven as a correct one in WWII,
>again according to Germans.  

"Until extermination yours or ours" could not possibly be correct.  This
is no way to resolve anything.  Where dou you get such crazy ideas?

>I'd like you to post the whole article, so we could read it. I was not
>able to find it. Anyhow, nothing could be compared with Starcevic and
>his hatred toward Serbs, so you are always loosing there. 

Harvard ought to have it.  Look it up.

-Josip

Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: josip@eng.umd.edu (Josip Loncaric)
Subject: Christmas: Hope for justice and peace
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 04:16:01 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

I HEARD THE BELLS ON CHRISTMAS DAY
----------------------------------

I heard the bells on Christmas Day
Their old, familiar carols play.
And wild and sweet
The words repeat
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!

And thought how, as the day had come,
The belfries of all Christendom
Had rolled along
The unbroken song
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!

Till, ringing, singing on its way,
The world revolved from night to day,
A voice, a chime
A chant sublime
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!

Then from each black, accursed mouth
The cannon thundered in the South,
And with the sound
The carols drowned
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!

It was as if an earthquake rent
The hearth-stones of a continent,
And made forlorn
The households born
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!

And in despair I bowed my head;
"There is no peace on earth," I said;
"For hate is strong,
and mocks the song
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!"

Then pealed the bells more loud and deep;
"God is not dead; nor doth he sleep!
The Wrong shall fail,
The Right prevail,
With peace on earth, good-will to men!"

---Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, on Christmas Day, 1864
From: z_ablesrl@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Import/Export research
Date: 29 Dec 92 00:58:44 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

Hello all,

	We are doing research on various items that international countries
would be interested in exporting and importing.  The items can consist of
anything from clothing to large machines.  Of course, they must be a legal
product to enter and exit the different countries.  These are some questions 
that we are trying to find the answers to:
 
1.) How would we gather information concerning the legal regulations on
	shipping to or from Yugoslovia? 

2.) Who would an individual contact in that country about shipping
	requirements?  

3.) What kind of licences or paper work does a company need to enter
	that foreign market place?


I really would appreciate any help concerning this matter.  Thank you very
much for your time and hope to hear from you soon.




Sincerely,


Ron Ables

********************************************************************************
Internet Addresses:
			z_ablesrl@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
       			    
				   or
			   
			   sfa1@jetson.uh.edu

**********************************************************************************           
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.croatia,soc.culture.bosna-hercgvna,soc.culture.europe
From: ddc@nyquist.bellcore.com (Daniel Chukurov 21324)
Subject: Re: Understanding the Media, by Peter Brock
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 93 03:19:22 GMT

In article <C0Ax89.JGz@ecf.toronto.edu> blazic@ecf.toronto.edu (BLAZIC Joseph R) writes:
>Mr. Churkov,
>
>Usually it is appropriate to put the author's name and association 
>at the *beginning* of an article, especially one that is (more than)
>500 lines long.

	Hi Jose,
	please look at the subject line. What does "Understanding the Media,
	by Peter Brock" means to you? Everything else is just a retype of
	Mr. Brocks speach at the convention. (If there are any spelling
	errors in the article they are mine.) 
>
>/Joe Blazic
>
>P.S.  Seems no co-incidence to me that such articles (apologetical 
>      "documents" written by/for one side) are so long and rambling. 

	Well, it is understandable that you do not like what does the article
	say. I am so sorry, but I can't help you there. If you have some
	comments on something in particular in the article, by all means,
	bring it up. We just might be able to discuss it.

	Otherwise, your and Vicky's dismissals of the article are pure ramblings
	as well.

Regards,  DDC.

Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:10314 soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna:1032 soc.culture.croatia:282
From: bill@cognet.ucla.edu (William M. Eldridge)
Subject: Re: Orthodox Christmas War
Organization: UCLA Cognitive Science Research Program
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 01:54:15 GMT

wickerhauser-victor@math.yale.edu (Victor Wickerhauser) writes:


>I am rather afraid that there will soon be a serious escalation of the
>fighting in Bosnia-Hercegovina, possibly spreading to Kosovo and even
>Serbia, given the extremely belligerent recent statements by Dobrica
>Chosich, Zhivota Panich, and Radovan Karadzhich, and the text of the
>US letter of last week.

I would hope the US letter implies an immediate response, and not
another extended embargo with a delayed ultimatum.

In which case I think the Serbs might be a little reluctant to
rape Kosovo, though they might think "if we just do it quickly".
-- 
{{{{ bill eldridge           310-206-3960                x                }}}}
{{{{ bill@cognet.ucla.edu    310-206-3987 fax           xxx              }}}}
{{{{ ~more, ~better, ~faster [80's motto]                x              }}}}
{{{{ ~hot, ~toxic, and ~shallow [90's motto]                              }}}}
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe