HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: Neil Gaiman's Sandman ...
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:33:01 GMT

boyes@forty2.enet.dec.com (Mark Boyes):
>>Does Neil Gaiman own the Sandman character and all the other characters
>>in the Sandman series?
>
>Neil Gaiman owns a small percentage of the Sandman character...
>Neil is one of the only writers to ahve this perk and is a result of 
>him employing an agent.

No.  Neil Gaiman talked about this at last year's San Diego Comic Con.
He doesn't have ownership (unless things have changed a good deal
since then); he has creator credit.  It was promised to him when he
started writing Sandman, but then DC reneged, on the remarkable grounds
that his Sandman was too similar to Kirby's.  Around the time of issue
eight, he decided that, aside from this being absurd, it really did bother
him, so he wrote Karen Berger a polite letter informing her that he
really did feel he should have that credit -- and he got it.  The royalty
this credit brings in is exceedingly small, but he says that (though he
made no threats when he wrote the letter), he almost certainly have
stopped writing Sandman around issue thirteen or fourteen if he'd been
refused.

Bear in mind that while Sandman is popular and profitable, it isn't
incredibly so.  (Wasn't it something like number sixty in terms of
sales?)  Also DC isn't exploiting it to the hilt.  In my own opinion,
this is wise:  The value to DC (image, PR, related titles) of having
a title of Sandman's caliber is far more than they could recoup if
they were to milk it for all it was worth.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

Roses red and violets blew
  and all the sweetest flowres that in the forrest grew -- Edmund Spenser


Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: tyg@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Tom Galloway)
Subject: Re: Superhero Codenames (was Re: CYBER FORCE #1)
Organization: Interleaf
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 00:04:58 GMT

In article <Bw5CMw.LGJ@cs.psu.edu> antunes@astro.psu.edu (Sandy Antunes) writes:
>Good book, pity it hasn't come out in a real long time...

Actually, an issue of Southern Knights came out within the last couple
of months, starting off the crossover with the League of Champions.
Probably due to the co-writing with Dennis Mallonee, I wasn't that
impressed with it. (Side note: Henry Vogel was the first comics writer
on then net.comics)

"We're moving again.  We're not going far: Maybe two miles, as the heat-seeking
radar-equipped South Florida Stealth Mosquito flies.  It's hard to explain why
we're doing this.  Call it a crazy whim.  We just woke up one morning and said,
"I know!  Let's put everything we own into boxes!"" --Dave Barry
tyg   tyg@hq.ileaf.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David VanDomelen)
Subject: Re: cerebus 162
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 01:23:02 GMT

Well, it feels like only a few months passed between 100 and 162 (and we thot 
Marvel Time was bad!), but if Oscar served his entire sentence (I can't recall 
if eh did or not) then it's more like 2 years.
     Dave Van Domelen, wonders what a half-aardvark would look like....
From: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (The Napoleon of Crime)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: ATTN: COLORADO BONE FANS
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:37:59 GMT
Reply-To: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (The Napoleon of Crime)
Organization: The Institute for Criminal Science, Gizmonics Control

In <1992Oct3.005823.18596@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> kogutt@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (SCAVENGER) writes:

>Jeff Smith, the creator of BONE (which I've heard is excelent) will be
>appearing In the Denver/Boulder area this weekend.

Could someone ask him where one calls / writes to get issues of BONE?  My
dealer was given a phone number to call for issues, and it's been
disconnected.  A number of people are asking for BONE (by name -- it has the
meaty taste fans love), and would like to order some issues.

Oh, well -- Sim'll know.  We'll ask him.

                           "I've told you I don't live and die by the polls.
                            Thus I will refrain from pointing out that we're
                            not doing too bad in those polls."
                                           -- George Bush
---
                                        Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer
INTERNET:     moriarty@tc.fluke.COM
Manual UUCP:  {uunet, uw-beaver, sun, microsoft}!fluke!moriarty
CREDO:        You gotta be Cruel to be Kind...
                 **>> Keep circulating the tapes <<**
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: Comic Shop Question
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 22:26:57 GMT

riceball@west.darkside.com (Riceball):
>...For example, Spawn #4 went up 300% from cover price in 
>less than one week because it had the coupon in it.
>
>Who knows, maybe this is healthy.  Maybe the "big 2" will finally 
>re-think their position and start toward some common goal. 

Maybe the big two will rethink their position.  And maybe the big
two will start including coupons.  Which do *you* think is more likely?
From: matta@lclark.edu (Matt Alexander)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Sandman #43 (no major spoilers)
Date: 8 Oct 92 22:24:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: lclark.1992Oct8.222437.7125
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR

In article <143560016@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> daq@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom) writes:
>I have decided to give Sandman one more chance.  I bought issue
>43, and while there was nothing particularly fantastic about it,
>at least it did not offend me.  The illustration is extremely
>uninteresting, however.
>
>Which of the compilations (graphic novels) of Sandman would people
>reccommend most?  I want to read one of them and see if I think
>it is worth my time to buy this magazine.
>
Well gee, If you're going to be snotty about it...
Just kidding. My recomendation for best novel would be either
Seasons of Mists, or (perhaps better for newcomers) Doll's House.

>doug
Matt
From: gls@windmill.ATT.COM (Col. G. L. Sicherman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Sandman #43 - where are you
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:00:37 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

With all this talk about Sandman #43 -- is it out yet?  Here in 
New Jersey the stores still have only #42 on the shelves.

-:-
	"On behalf of Bogopolis, I am honored to accept this ... Wait a
    minute!  This is not the World's Largest Diamond!"
	"Of course not, Captain BUFFOON!  It's a big chunk of VOOPTONITE!"
	"Auggggh! Urggggh! Gasp! ... And you're not Commander Pinkney, the
    Brazilian explorer!  You're ... you're ... you're ..."
	"Ha HO ho haw! HAW HAW yak yak yak!"
-- 
Col. G. L. Sicherman
gls@windmill.att.COM
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: sherman@deimos.math.ucla.edu (William Sherman)
Subject: Re: M #4
Organization: The Island of Misfit Toys
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 04:00:30 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.194958.14632@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (OtakuRoach) writes:
>In article <1992Oct9.182925.3099@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, ckt4x@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (H. R. Costigan) writes:
>> Did anyone else pick up Jon J Muth's _M_ Book Four?
>
>Me!!

I will, as soon as I can find it.

>If someone were to sue Muth, they'd have better things to do than sue
>him because a character looks like Lorre.  

Speaking of which, the spy in the first part of Muth's "The Mythology 
of an Abandoned City" looks an awful lot like some famous actor.  Can
anybody tell me who?  It's been bugging me for a while.

--
  Bill Sherman      S^1 `--> S^(2n+1) -->> CP^n     sherman@math.ucla.edu
     "Enter, o seeker of knowledge!" [pause]  "That's you, fathead!"
                  - Bugs Bunny
From: conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (E. Kontei)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: The Endless Theater (was Re: Sandman odds and ends...)
Date: 16 Oct 92 17:40:32 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <faber.719251541@cs.wisc.edu>, faber@loon.cs.wisc.edu (Ted) writes:
> conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (E. Kontei) writes:
> 
> >Well, there IS "A Streetcar Named Desire"....
> 	"Death of a Salesman"....

Hmm.  "A Midsummer's Night Dream" has been done already.

Any more-or-less famous theater plays with the words "Destiny", ""Despair",
"Destruction", and "Delight/Delirium" in the title?  :-)

-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			The Incredible Man-with-no-Life
			      jester@ihlpl.att.com
		    Disclaimer: You're not dealing with AT&T
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: Alexx@world.std.com (Alexx S Kay)
Subject: Re: cerebus 162 - the clinician
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 18:03:46 GMT

conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (OtakuRoach) writes:

>I just realized:  if the Cirinists imprisoned Jaka for being a dancer, can
>you imagine what would they do to a pros-- err, "clinician"?

It may not be as obvious as you think.  The Kevillists (or at least Astoria)
are on record as being in favor of "state-owned prostitution".  

While the Cirinist stance towards exotic dancing might make you think they'd
be against prostitution, it doesn't *necessarily* follow.  Jaka's dancing was
"evil" because it aroused lewd thoughts and was accused of turning men into
rapists.  Prostitutes (it can be argued) leave their clients with their 
"baser" instincts satiated, so that they are *less* likely to go out and 
rape...

Still not enough info to say for sure...

Alexx

Alexx@world.std.com
"The living dead don't NEED to solve word problems."    -- Calvin
From: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (The Napoleon of Crime)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Sim On Groth (was: Cerebus #162)
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:34:52 GMT
Reply-To: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (The Napoleon of Crime)
Organization: The Institute for Criminal Science, Gizmonics Control

In <1992Oct2.215605.15725@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:

>Interesting editorial.  The language is so restrained that it's possible
>to overlook just how thoroughly Groth is being savaged.  Some interesting
>letters, too.  If there were more columns like this, and fewer page-long
>chain-of-consciousness pieces, I might get out of the "I hate Aardvark
>Column" club.

I think I'm officially out of that club -- I think I was only in it for a
year about 8 or 9 years ago, anyway.  There's nothing like THE COMIC'S
JOURNAL's "Blood & Thunder" column to put other correspondence forums into
perspective, pedantic stupidty-wise.

Oh, and I thought Dave's comments spot-on in regards to Gary.  Groth is one
of the few people I've vented my spleen on in the last four or five years
(who isn't a major political or religous figure.)  Sim basically sums up
Groth (and Kim Thompson) without resorting to the sort of napalm language
that one used to expect from Dave (as Dani points out.)

----
Gee, when Dave is in town next weekend at Zanadu, maybe Gary will drive down
from Lake City Way and go into Mondo Pedantic mode while I'm there!  What a
thrill it is to live in Seattle.  (*yawn*)

                           "I don't like people who speak French in public
                            places.  This includes the French."
                                        -- Ian Shoales

                                        Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer
INTERNET:     moriarty@tc.fluke.COM
Manual UUCP:  {uunet, uw-beaver, sun, microsoft}!fluke!moriarty
CREDO:        You gotta be Cruel to be Kind...
                 **>> Keep circulating the tapes <<**
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: mcollins@nyx.cs.du.edu (Killans - First And Last And Always)
Subject: Re: Vertigo : Hunh?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 14:47:48 GMT

In article <003695s.13.718397842@ace.acadiau.ca> 003695s@ace.acadiau.ca (STEPHANE ANDRE SAVOIE) writes:
>
> Could somebody please post any available information on the Vertigo line 
>from DC, including the article from CBG if possible?  Tanx.

Vertigo is a new line being created by DC to house it's mature readers titles
away from the all-age titles. The group editor will be Karen Berger. All
existing mature readers titles (eg Sandman, Hellblazer, Doom Patrol, Swamp
Thing, Shade the Changing Man and Animal Man) will be moved to the Vertigo
line. Also, the recently-acquired projects planned to appear under the 
now-cancelled Disney Touchmark imprint will be produced under the Vertigo
imprint.
New products include:

Enigma: An 8-issue series by Peter Milligan and Duncan Fegredo, about an
'intellectual  Elephant Man who becomes an existentialist superhero and the
catalyst for change in a young man's empty life'

Death: The High Cost of Living: A 3-issue miniseries by Neil Gaiman and 
the Shade art team of Bachalo and Pennington (and, I hope, Vozzo's colours).
This is the story of Death's one day per century as a mortal.

Both the above are scheduled for January 1993. Following that, other title 
include:

Sandman Mystery Theatre: By Matt Wagner and Guy Davies. The adventures of the
Golden Age Sandman, Wesley Dodds, fighting crime in a decadent, post-Depresssion
America of the 1930's.

Kid Eternity: By Ann Nocenti and Sean Phillips - more of the character from
Morrison's mini-series last year.

Sebastian O : By the Zenith team of Grant Morrison and Steve Yeowell, originally
planned for Touchmark.

Black Orchid: By Dick Foreman and Jill Thompson, the continuing story of the 
character from Gaiman and McKean's mini-series.


Apparantly it had been planned to do a series about Brother Power the Geek,
but it looks as though that's been scrapped.

All the above information comes from Comics International 24.

Mike
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: amstazds@tacom-emh1.army.mil (VICIAN Theodore)
Subject: Re: Marvel UK question
Organization: U.S. Army Tank Automotive Command (TACOM)
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 12:05:12 GMT

I read allthree Marvel UK titles.  Hell's Angel, Motormouth, and Warheads
are all good, IMHO.  The funniest is Motormouth and Warheads has the most
action.  Hell's Angel is kinda in the middle, plus it has the most mysticism.

The first one I picked up was Hell's Angel #1 and it led me to the others
in an attempt to figure out what was going on.  I think they read best if
you get all three.  Now Death's Head is getting a continuing series, so I'll
have to get that one too.
From: rnmg1200@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Walrus and April)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Superman: Man of Steel 18
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:45:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bw8EzG.4zJ
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

In article <49Fi03Uqb1H500@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> jsp@pls.amdahl.com writes:
>rnmg1200@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Walrus and April) writes:
>
>}Portrayals of imbalanced people are dangerously skewed 
>}as it is without having a "lunatic" kill off one of our cultural icons and 
>}perpetuate the myth.  When you tell someone that you are imbalanced, their
>}reactions are shaped by the things they've been shown in movies, books, and TV
>}telling them that anyone who is "not right mentally" is either a) a serial 
>}killer, b) a sexual molester, or c) some even more ludicrous stereotype, 
>
>Anyone who's views of real people are shaped by portrayals of comic book 
>villians has a little mental problem of his own.

So, what's your point?  Comics are one of the more prevalent and most 
accessible media currently available, especially to children.  Why do you
think they made a comic book version of the Bible, and other works of
literature?  You can't tell me that it doesn't have any effect whatsoever on
kids' outlooks.  They're not as easily accessible as TV, but more so than 
movies (they cost less and don't have ratings on them).  This is a basic dodge
you're making, and not germaine to the point, which is that the stereotypical
mentally-unbalanced person is a "psycho".  And with the kind of publicity this
thing is getting, and the fact that this "psycho" is going to kill Superman,
one of the most popular fictional characters in the world, it doesn't do anyone
any good.  I can understand and sympathize with these "PC morons" because I've
been on the receiving end of the kind of prejudice this sort of thing breeds;
and whether it's caused by books, movies, or (*GASP*) comics, the end result
is the same.  

Ye gods, I'm turning into a clone of Frothing-at-the-Mouth Lad...:)
Besides which, this discussion really doesn't belong here, but I'm not 
familiar enough with the net to know an appropriate newsgroup to Followup:
to, so I suggest we either restrict it to email or drop it altogether.

>--James Preston

The Walrus
From: cje@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Cthulhu's Jersey Epopt)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: PAD. Is it really him?
Date: 14 Oct 92 12:40:48 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Miskatonic U. Computer Operations & User Services

djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes) writes:

>Oh, great.  *NOW* you've gone and done it.  Next thing you know
>Moriarty will be up on the table doing his Roddy McDowell impression
>and singing "The Seven Deadly Virtues."  Really, some people have no
>sense of self-restraint at all. . .

Such as?

Mi, mi, mi, miiiii...

I know what my friends here are thinking each morn
As to office or classroom they blunder.
Newspaper, TV, and radio they scorn,
Replaced by an electronic wonder.

At their consoles they sit and log in,
And I hear each one say, with a grin...

I wonder what the Net is doing today.
What topics are the people chewing today?
Those fascinating folk, that dazzling repartee.
I wonder what the Net is saying today.

First thing I do, of course, is
Put my hands on those resources
That could put the largest library to shame
And---
I find out what the Net is doing today:
They flame!  They flame!

Here's a reply I've been awaiting.
Looks like someone's been cogitating.
What else could it be to make this post so big?
A .sig.

My organization pays the phone bill
Out of a corporate act of good will.
What benefits do they get for their checks?
alt.sex

I enter a group and must wade through
An episode guide, an FAQ,
To find that the moderator we've been sent
Is Kent.

What are Godwin and Maroney saying in here?
The same things they were saying in *that* group last year.
Now here's a new debate that takes me by surprise.
I'll learn something from --- Wait!  It's rumors and lies.

The Net's justification
Is its gobs of information:
Forty-five new groups were added overnight.
Right?
And how do all of us make use of this tool?
We fight!
We boast!
Send gifs!
Crosspost!
We waste the whole day in Netnews.  Good night!

-- 
Yog-Sothoth Neblod Zin,

Chris Jarocha-Ernst			Rutgers University Computing Services
Internet: cje@gandalf.rutgers.edu       BITnet: JAROCHAERNST@ZODIAC
From: pathall@astro.as.arizona.edu (Patrick B. Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Sandman #43 / Robocop vs. Terminator #2
Summary: Trouble.  Big Trouble.
Keywords: Sandman Robocop Terminator
Date: 7 Oct 92 07:28:40 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

Was I the only one to purchase and read the latest Sandman and
Robocop vs. Terminator issues on the same day?  I couldn't help
noticing an odd similarity:  in Sandman, Destruction is asked by
his pet/companion Barnabas what the bubbling pool signifies, and
he responds:  
	"Trouble.  Big Trouble."  
In R vs. T, after Robocop hooks into the world's computer system 
and decides it's possible he could create the Terminators, his 
technician friend asks him "What's up?" and he replies:
	"Trouble.  Big Trouble."

Amusing, as long as they're not planning a crossover.
Pat Hall
pathall@as.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: pwh@bradley.bradley.edu (Pete Hartman)
Subject: Re: Sandman #43
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 13:33:33 GMT

In <ZEESHAN.92Oct4132432@occs.cs.oberlin.edu> zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan) writes:
>	Of course, this brings up an interesting question.  Why is
>Dream the only one with a realm all to himself?  Maybe he won it from
>the others in a poker game?  after all, that's one hell of a poker
>face he's got there... =)

What do you consider the place Despair is usually in?  Is that not
a domain of sorts?

And how about the gardens that Destiny runs around in?  (forgive if my
memory fails here, perhaps they aren't gardens, but you know what I mean)
-- 
Pete Hartman		       Bradley University	pwh@bradley.bradley.edu
                    Doubt everything.  Find your own light.
From: hs0sagg@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk (S A G Granville)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Product Placement
Date: 14 Oct 92 09:29:04 GMT
Organization: School of Social Sciences, University of Bath, UK

Does anyone out there know how rife product placement is in comics ?
The reason that I ask is that I have recently been buying back issues
of Teen Titans (no flames please) na din (about) issue 9 there is a
panel which focuses in solely on a can of coke (being opened by Victor)
for no real reason (not that that has ever stopped the Titans).

Any comments considered eagerly.

Toodle Pip

Simon
 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: warnold@gossip.urich.edu (William W. Arnold)
Subject: Re: SANDMAN: galleries and sigils
Organization: University of Richmond
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 02:39:33 GMT

In <1992Oct11.054225.26267@u.washington.edu> number6@milton.u.washington.edu ( "John Drake" ) writes:
>
>In article <1992Oct9.215821.7681@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
>	[Sandman carbon-dating deleted]
>>Which means that Desire said "Big Brother, I'm watching you" at
>>least 16 years before 1984 was published. This is an anachronism;
>>but then, time seems to be more fluid for the Endless then for us
>>(viz. Delirium's punked-out look in Heroic Greece).
>
>>I invite corrections, of course...
>
>	A writer, such as our esteemed Mssr. Orwell, has to 
>	have a *lot* of desire -- the least of which being 
>	the desire to finish the damn manuscript.  It's not
>	impossible that Desire "inspired" the line, if not 
>	the whole book -- _1984_ is about nothing *but* 
>	conflicting desires, really.  
>
>	As for Delirium's look .... sure, she dressed that
>	way long before punk.  Where do you think the punkers
>	got the idea from?  :)
>
>	Just don't ask me to explain Death's "apartment."

We may be approaching this from the wrong direction:

	1) the Endless are mutable.
	2) people do NOT always see what they expect the Endless to look like.
	3) People do not always see the same things at the same time.
	4) the Endless have a diffenent idea of time than we do.
	5) Anachronisms are rampant.

Conclusion:  We see (some of) what we expect to see.  ie, the readers
of the comics are affecting what the endless looked like back then, and
continue to affect their apperances now.  (4th wall fall down go BOOM)

hmmm. stream of consiousness is not the best way to write, but it 
works when you're to tired to think straight.

-- 
-billy-  wanrold@nomad.urich.edu  has8wwa@cabell.vcu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc