From: king@cogsci.ucsd.EDU (Jonathan King)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hypercard
Subject: Guess I'm out of here (was Re: CLARIS CORP. OFFERS...)
Summary: the song of the clone has just become irresistable
Keywords: hypercard, system software, eating your seed corn
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:04:20 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

shawn@cars.com writes:
>
>This certainly has been a generator of a lot of discussion, and I just
>can't resist getting into the fray.

I know the feeling. :-) I bought my Mac in September, 1984, and put
money down for Hypercard as soon as it hit the shelf, so my
(emotional) involvement in all this is pretty high.

>I've used HC for many years for a variety of purposes, and have mixed
>feelings on the advent of a HyperCard player. On the one hand, end
>users are not going to have the same chance I had to learn HC by playing
>around and developing at their own pace. Either they are committed
>to using HC or they will not be. This is a great loss to the Macintosh
>community, no doubt.

A tremendous loss.  My guess is that the net boon of having HyperCard
Player for hardware sales will be zero, where I *know* that when
HyperCard was free that it actually sold some Macs to people who
wouldn't have bought them.  Let's put it this way: nobody is going to
say "Oh goodie, now Apple is giving us less than they used to; let's
buy a Mac!"  It's also tough to see how this will actually save them
much money that they can pass on to consumers, either, since they will
still have to develop "real" versions of HyperCard for developers, if
they really want to continue the product line.

>But, on the other hand, true HC developer's, (myself included), will
>benefit. It transforms HC from being a mere toy to a real development
>environment that many business' will now take seriously. 

I guess this is a matter of opinion, but I would note that in many
places HyperCard was already used as a Real development environment,
and I don't see how moves that will effectively limit its distribution
would really help matters.  And it isn't like HyperCard Player will
help you (much) to produce better applications, will it?

>As someone who makes his living in HC development, the opportunity is great. 

Ah, so you were talking about commercial development.  Well, I hope
this works out for you, but I have noticed a conspicuous dearth of
people who have managed to earn much in other than vertical
applications.  And there, I still don't see how HC Player helps you.

>As a registered user of HC, I don't anticipate having to pay
>full book retail for the next upgrade. 

True enough.  But in the olden days of not so long ago, you would pay
at worst a nominal disk-copying fee, and maybe buy a book.

>And even for the new developer, there will always be the MacConnection's, 
>CompUSA's and their like.  I can say, for certain, that no one, unless 
>absolutely committed to lining someone else's pockets, will have to pay 
>full retail.

Sure, but what does this have to do with HC Player?

>Now compare this development environment to those like Think C, etc. HC 
>begins to look like a real bargain.

How so?  With Think C, you can program almost anything you could
imagine, while I would have to say that HyperCard is most appropriate
for a more limited kind of projects, at least in its current form.
Plus with Think C, you're getting a standardized language, and you
could write code that can potentially be ported to other hardware
platforms.  I really think that HyperCard and Think C are quite
different tools.

>All in all, for those committed to HC, I believe that this is a good
>time, and an event to celebrate. I mourn the loss of new developers
>to come into the market the way I did, but progress marches on.

It does?  I've been out of touch with this for some time, but last
I knew the latest version of HyperCard was essentially identical to
2.1.  Is there really any evidence that Claris will significantly
improve the product in the near future?  I know that Aldus seems
to be out of the SuperCard game these days, and that move seems
pretty ominous for FooCard products of all types.


Maybe I just have a bad attitude, but it strikes me as a sad day in
the history of HyperCard when Claris officially decides that some of
the rest of us aren't really fit to play around with HyperCard unless
we are willing to call ourselves developers.  And it's a sad day when
Apple seems to be intentionally reducing its once immense software
edge over its (hardware) competitors for the sake of momentarily
keeping its margins a bit higher.

Right now I'm in the market for a new computer for home use and to
help me take work home (new baby in the house).  Unfortunately, I have
found that neither educational pricing of the current systems nor
Apple's new Performa line will enable me to buy the kind of system I'd
like to, and so my need to be able to run DOS software will probably
force me to buy a Clone.  (Yes, I know about Soft {PC/AT}, but that's
not cheap and at last check didn't do VGA, which, alas, I need.)  

This was a very, *very* painful decision.  But I was still holding out
against hope, though, since I *really* wanted to do more things with
HyperCard--but only if I really thought it would still be around at a
price I could afford.  I was looking for a sign.

Unfortunately, I think I've seen it.

jking