HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Swedes turned into Moslems
Date: 12 Oct 92 12:38:53 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology

In article <1992Oct11.203654.24788@nntp.hut.fi> mtf@saha.hut.fi (Antti Lahelma) writes:
> Why replace christianity? Well, it's a very authoritarian religion, very
>dogmatic, quite patriarchaic, gives little room for free thinking, stresses
>moral values of which some have become 'old-fashioned' so to speak, still
>clings to the fairy-tales of creation as presented in the bible, and has the 
>heavy burden of it's 2000 year history of crusades, witch-hunts and other 
>terrible crimes.

  It is therefore interesting that many of those who leave the rather nice
(aka they don't come and bother me:) xtianity we have here in Sweden do it
for sects and religions that are hyper authoritarian, absolutely dogmatic,
rediculously patriarchaic, think that brainwashing is better than thinking, 
stresses moral values most of which are old-fashioned, refuse to change a
single letter in their books, and thinks that the time of their crusades
(or equivalent) were the good old days.

  Before everybody jumps on me here, I'll vage to point out that the above is
a conglomerate of (almost) everything I find bad about religion, taken from 
several sects and religions: For example, I do *not* claim that Islam is
hyper authoritarian and think that brainwashing is better than thinking, those 
two characteristicts fit better in on the load of crazy sects like the 
moonies or the scientologists.

>Antti Lahelma			GNOTHI SEAUTON

-bertil-
--
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
		"Revive the Swedish-Madagascan Brigand Pact!"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: kwright@hoss.unl.edu (Kevin Wright)
Subject: Thulite available in the U.S.?
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:16:40 GMT

I once saw some thulite used in the construction of a piece of jewelry.
Does anyone know of a source for this in the U.S.?
--
Kevin Wright, Univ of Nebraska - Lincoln.  E-mail: kwright@hoss.unl.edu
Xref: sparky soc.culture.nordic:6054 rec.arts.animation:4649
From: andersa@Riga.DoCS.UU.SE (Anders Andersson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: New Moomintroll TV series
Date: 16 Oct 92 22:13:43 GMT
Organization: Uppsala University, Sweden
NNTP-Posting-Host: riga.docs.uu.se

In article <1992Oct15.075020.25061@eua.ericsson.se>, euaaen@eua.ericsson.se (Anders Engwall) writes:
> Actually, there have been no less than two TV adaptions of the Moomins,
> that predate both of these. Both were non-animated, i e they featured
> actors in costumes (perhaps r.a.a should have been removed from the
> Newsgroups: line? Ah, nevermind!)

I recall seeing a glimpse from a Polish-made puppet animation series
(list of production staff in Polish, dialogue in Finland-Swedish) a
few years ago.  I don't know when it was made.

> The other one came about around 1974, as that year's Christmas series
> ("Adventskalendern"). I don't think it has been shown since, and I
> don't remember any details about it, except that I liked it at the
> time.

Based on Moomin Winter, and I don't think they took their noses off
in that one.

Somebody mentioned hair.  The Moomin Forefather (in Moomin Winter)
was mute, small, black, and certainly hairy.  A live relic of the
stone age Moomin race, now living in the tiled stove.
--
Anders Andersson, Dept. of Computer Systems, Uppsala University
Paper Mail: Box 325, S-751 05 UPPSALA, Sweden
Phone: +46 18 183170   EMail: andersa@DoCS.UU.SE
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Denmark
Date: 9 Oct 92 09:53:55 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology


  Denmark is a funny country.

  There is a Danish communist that lives in a multi-mega-kroner seaside villa
by the O"resund.

  There is a Danish nazi that has divorced his wife to marry a palestinian
refugee. 

:)

-bertil-
--
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
		"Revive the Swedish-Madagascan Brigand Pact!"
From: bjorn.kvisli@thcave.no (Bjorn Kvisli)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Norway losing Freia
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:36:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Thunderball Cave BBS - Oslo, Norway  (47 2) 56 70 18
Reply-To: bjorn.kvisli@thcave.no (Bjorn Kvisli)



Bruce Horn writes about Philip-Morris' takover of Freia:
>BH> I have heard that they are planning on closing some of the Norwe>
>BH> and moving down to the continent.  In addition to the loss of jo>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Where are your sources of information? Those plans are unheard of
in Norway.

But people do worry, and I don't blame them. The worries are of
cause that the new owners are after the brand names and the
marketing channels, and will move manufacturing elsewhere. A
situation like this occured when a Finish (or was it Swedish?)
company lately took over
the tyre manufacturer Viking, and closed the plant.

Philip-Morris states hoevever that they are going to keep and
develop the facilities in Norway.

Freia dooes  seem to need a strong owner. The will to invest is
very low in Norway today. Capital willing to take risk is very
scarce, and by purchasing Freia, Philip-Morris brings almost 9
billion Norwegian kroner (crowns) into Norway.

Bjorn.
---
 > MegaMail 2.10 #0:Internet: bjorn.kvisli@thcave.no

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Subject: Re: Swedes turned into Moslems
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 00:26:10 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Apple
Followup-To: soc.culture.nordic

In article <FISCHER.92Oct10065809@steiner.iesd.auc.dk>, fischer@iesd.auc.dk
(Lars Peter Fischer) wrote:
> If you take a look at an average Danish bookstore, you could easily
> get the impression that there is some sort of competition going on:
> Who can come up with the most nutty beliefs? Even more amazing,
> judging from sales there are lots of people believing in all this
> stuff -- Tarot cards, "earth rays" (dunno if there is an English
> term), Hare Kristna, Pyramid forces, Islam, 121 different styles of
> christianity, reincarnation -- or even better most of it at once.

Well, I haven't seen Danish bookstores, but speaking of experience
comparing Swedish/Finnish bookstores with the Californian ones, boy
there's a difference. You don't just find one book about Tarot cards,
you find 20 of 'em. I sometimes roam the 'New Age' stores for good
conspiracy books. Anyway, you could believe in nearly anything over
here, we even have nutty religions based on computers!


> "Faith:  not *wanting* to know what is true."
>         -- Friedrich Nietzsche

Great cite, it's now part of my cites file!

Cheers,
Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: steinarb@idt.unit.no (Steinar Bang)
Subject: Re: Vikings and Green Beads
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology, Trondheim, Norway
Date: 7 Oct 92 10:01:28

>>>>> John S. Robertson <robrtsnj@yvax.byu.edu> writes:

> This might sound like a strange request,

not at all...

> ... but I was wondering if anyone out there ever heard of Vikings
> wearing green beads in their hair.

No, it would clash with their horns...

> If so, I would appreciate getting any kind of information about it,
> particularly sources. Thanks for your consideration.

You're welcome,...

- Steinar
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: MICHAEL.WILLETT@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Michael Willett")
Subject: Re: Multiuser Multitasking Magazine
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 08 Oct 92 17:14:59 EST

I found out that it is indeed possible to get a sample copy of
iX Multiuser Multitasking magazine.  All you have to do is send a
letter requesting a sample copy (Probeexemplar) to Verlag Heinz
Heise, Vertrieb, Helstorfer Strasse 7, 3000 Hannover 61, Germany.
Hannover is the site of the world's largest computer show each Spring,
Cebit.  I presume this is published only in German, but I'm not sure.

-------------------Michael.Willett@OFFICE.Wang.com-------------------

Is this magazine available in the US, either via subscription
or in public libraries?  Are sample copies available?
(A lot of times European computer magazine subscriptions become
very expensive when they are mailed to the US; we get Computerwoche
here and that is quite expensive-sehr teur!)  The Editor of Multiuser
Multitasking posted a RAID 7 question to this group the other day.

Michael.Willett@OFFICE.Wang.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: steinarb@idt.unit.no (Steinar Bang)
Subject: Norway lost Viking Tyre (Wuz: Norway losing Freia)
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology, Trondheim, Norway
	<1992Oct13.081209.19245@alcatel.no>
Distribution: soc
Date: 13 Oct 92 11:20:11

>>>>> vatne@alcatel.no (Lars Vatne) writes:

> ... A recent example is Viking tyres (the worlds best winter tyres -
> studded tyres) that was bought by -ummmm- was it Nokia?

No, Nevis Tyre. Owned in part by the Swedish Lo"nstagarfonden.

> - anyway- just to have the Norwegian plant closed down and the tyre
> production transferred to -ummmm- a finnish then?

No, Swedish...

> factory.

There have been several examples of Swedish companies buying Norwegian
competitors, for then to butcher the Norwegian company.

Which just goes to show that we have more to fear from our beloved
Nordic brothers than from big (real) foreign capital. Or,...?

- Steinar
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: bulwinkl@stein.u.washington.edu (In Cognito)
Subject: Moslem men marrying scandinavians
Summary: Moslem women *have* to marry moslems
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 22:13:43 GMT

	There was a silly debate in here awhile back about
how scandinavian women must be getting sick of this liberation
stuff because some of them were marrying moslem men.  The
writer noted that he hadn't seen any moslem women who were
married to scandinavian men.

	The cause is much more simple (and sensible) than the
explanation that he put forth.  Moslem women are instructed
to not marry outside their faith.  The reasoning is that they
could be pressured by their husbands to give up their faith.
It is considered OK for Moslem men to marry non-moslem women
if they wish.  (In fact, the men are told that they should
be tolerant of their wife's faith.)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,rec.arts.animation
From: euaaen@eua.ericsson.se (Anders Engwall)
Subject: Re: New Moomintroll TV series
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 07:50:20 GMT

alberti@ux.acs.umn.edu (Timothy Fay) writes:

>The MOOMINTROLL series currently on Japanese TV is actually the _second_
>one based on Jansson's characters

Actually, there have been no less than two TV adaptions of the Moomins,
that predate both of these. Both were non-animated, i e they featured
actors in costumes (perhaps r.a.a should have been removed from the
Newsgroups: line? Ah, nevermind!)

The first one was shown on Swedish TV in 1968 or possibly in '69, and
had a rerun around 1987 or '88. It actually featured some fine actors;
Birgitta Ulvsson as Moomin Mom, Nils Brandt ("Herr Barbalander"!) as Dad
and Lasse P|ysti as Moomin himself. One strange thing about it was that
very early in the series, perhaps even in the first episode, the Moomins
figured out that they could, as they put it, "take off their noses". In
fact, this meant that the entire head came off, and what you were left
with was actor's heads with moomin's bodies! Which made it all look
like Alfred Jarry's "Ubu Roi" play. Surrealism for the kids... 

The other one came about around 1974, as that year's Christmas series
("Adventskalendern"). I don't think it has been shown since, and I
don't remember any details about it, except that I liked it at the
time.

-- 
Anders Engwall				Email: Anders.Engwall@eua.ericsson.se
ELLEMTEL Utvecklings AB			Voice: +46 8 727 3893
lvsj, Sweden				Fax: +46 8 727 42 20
		"Bryna nuppa fjssa spnken"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: vatne@alcatel.no (Lars Vatne)
Subject: Re: Norway losing Freia
Organization: Alcatel STK A/S
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 08:12:09 GMT

In article <Oct13.005057.51064@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, bentson@CS.ColoState.EDU (Randolph Bentson) writes:
|> Shortly after I toured the factory near(in?) Oslo in 1969, I heard that
|> a U.S. chocolate firm (Hershey?) owned a significant share of Freia.
|> This posting suggests that my informant was wrong.  Who knows for sure?
|> 

Todays major Norwegian newspaper (Aftenposten) confirms that Philip
Morris secured 57.2% of the stocks in Freia yesterday (12 Oct) in competition
with Hershey. Hershey has been a minority stockholder in Freia for years. 
The major share of the stock was sold by Norsk Hydro, representing themselves, 
Swedish Procordia and Finnish Paulig.

The only way to keep Freia under Norwegian control now, would be for the
minister of industry to deny Philip Morris license to buy Freia. In theory,
license will be denied if a Norwegian company is apparently bought by a
foreign corporation just to be slaughtered,
thereby removing a competitor from some market, but in practice I think
a license will be granted a powerful buyer in all cases. A recent example
is Viking tyres (the worlds best winter tyres - studded tyres) that was
bought by -ummmm- was it Nokia? - anyway- just to have the Norwegian
plant closed down and the tyre production transferred to -ummmm- a 
finnish then? factory.

-- 
Lars Vatne                     Phone  : +47 2 63 76 51    
Engineering Division           Fax    : +47 2 63 84 97  
Alcatel Telecom Norway AS      e-mail : lars.vatne@alcatel.no
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: New Moomintroll TV series
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:39:07 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.nordic,rec.arts.animation
Organization: Apple

In article <73424@apple.Apple.COM>, minow@Apple.COM (Martin Minow) wrote:
> It should be pointed out that Swedish TV broadcast a "human" series based
> on Jansson's Muumintroll characters. As I recall, the actors were primarily
> from the Swedish theater in Helsingfors. It was *very* faithful to the
> original. The series was broadcast in 1975 or thereabouts.

Yeah, I saw that one, with Birgitta and Nisse Brandh (btw, I visited
by mistake Nisse's apartment in Stockholm while he was heading the
theatre over there, nice apartment!). Anyway, I was a teenager busy
riding bikes and chasing girls, so I didn't appreciate the program.


Cheers,
Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: euafri@eua.ericsson.se (Fredrik stman)
Subject: Re: Swedes turned into Moslems
Reply-To: euafri@eua.ericsson.se
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:36:23 GMT

Tor Lillqvist writes:
>Claus Tondering writes:

>>- According to Islam, a person who leaves Islam for antoher religion
>>is lost.
>>- According to Christianity, a person who leaves Christianity for
>>another religion is lost.

A difference is of course that the moslems send the Black Arrow to
execute the loss, whereas christians trust in God, or Midas, or
whatever, for it.

>Isn't it only fair that some Nordic people now convert *from*
>Christianity :-)

Are you sure they convert from christianity? In Sweden, most bishops
are marxist, and only a few percent of the population beleive in the
christian god.

---
         ______                     _~
        (_/_ _  _  _/) _  . /)     / ) , _/)     _
       __/ _/(_(/_(/__/(_/_/Z_    (_/_/)_/__/))_(I_/)_

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,rec.arts.animation
From: alberti@ux.acs.umn.edu (Timothy Fay)
Subject: Re: New Moomintroll TV series
Originator: alberti@staff.tc.umn.edu
Organization: Revolutionary Anarchist Bowling League
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 11:33:12 GMT

In <1992Oct13.163819.10139@hellgate.utah.edu> lchoqu%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Lee Choquette) writes:

>I'm cross-posting this article to r.a.animation to see if anyone in that group
>can tell us when we'll get the series in the US.  Please consider what
>newsgroups would be appropriate for your follow-ups.  I'd also like to hear
>from anyone who has seen the series already.

The MOOMINTROLL series currently on Japanese TV is actually the _second_
one based on Jansson's characters (the first aired on Japanese TV in the
early '80's).  I've seen episodes from both, and it's a rather nicely done
cartoon show, and I would enjoy seeing it on American television.

-- 
		Reply to:  avatar@pnet51.orb.mn.org
 "Bowl a strike, not a spare; Revolution everywhere!"  -RABL credo

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: Swedes turned into Moslems
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Distribution: soc
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 12:10:18 GMT

mette@gmd.de (Mette Krogsaeter) writes:
: In <1992Oct5.063050.3862@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
: 
: >This is sometihing to think about for the women right fighters and feminists.
: >jarmo
: 
: I'm sure this is the way some (men) will se it. ("Looks like the
: women have TOO much freedom, and this figure shows they don't like it!
: Women's lib has gone too far!") I guess the reasons for a woman's 
: converting to islam can be much more complex. Typically love, pressure 
: from the man's family, disappointment with other religions, ...
: Also - how anybody can call Sweden (or Scandinavia for that sake)
: mathriarchal is beyond me! Some "purely Scandinavian" Christian
: organizations are at least as pathriarchal as some Islamic
: directions (just so that we do not forget that there are many
: directions of Islam as well).

I just want to add sometihing concerning the mathriarchal issue.
Quite a famous researcher, Geert Hofstede, Institute for Research
on Intercultural Cooperation, Arnhem, The Netherlands published
1986 vol 10 pgs: 101-120 a study called "Cultural Differences
in teaching and learning."
Among the other he analyzied 50 countries in work-related values
and for instance Masculinity v. Femininity in these societes.

In this index Sweden, Denmark,Norway,Netherlands were the most feminist
countries in the survey and there the feminist values had a high position.
On the other side there were countries like Greece,Japan,Mexico,
Italia,Colombia,Pakistan,Argentine were masculine values had a high
position. I believe in his study.

I do not believe  concerning the converts into the Islam very much so
called love factor but more to that the quite a number of ladies
are tired on feminism and mathriarchal values in Scandinavia and
they simply want a more pathriarchal society and values. So they vote with
their feet I should say. If it were the contrary the men in Scandinavia
wanted to convert into the Islam much more. Now the census is
c. 9:1 for the ladies. I believe that the feminists are not speaking
for the majority of the women at all but for the minority. Otherwise
pathriarchal societies and values were not so popular among the scandinavian
women. In the theory at an academical world one could say that all the
ladies are for more liberation, in the practise it is the contrary.
This" election by feet" proves that.
: 
Jarmo Ryyti
Suomi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: CBURMAN@finabo.abo.fi ()
Subject: Re: Denmark
Organization: The Clam of Reason Ltd.
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:48:19 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.23

In <1992Oct12.162015.15229@kth.se> tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE writes:
> In article <FISCHER.92Oct11195451@steiner.iesd.auc.dk>, fischer@iesd.auc.dk (Lars Peter Fischer) writes:
> >
> >Tomas> We all know that Danes speak like they had their mouth full of
> >Tomas> porridge ...
>
> But perfectly sober Danes still speak like they had 
> porridge in their mouth. 

Er, 'porridge'? Is this some kind of a joke? EVERYBODY knows that Danes 
speak as if they had HOT POTATOES in their mouth. (Porridge...sheesh!)

I mean, hey, let's be precise in our use of technical vocabulary.


Chris Burman, cburman@abo.fi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: aforsten@aton.abo.fi (Annika Forsten INF)
Subject: Re: Swedes turned into Moslems
Organization: Abo Akademi University, Finland
	<1992Oct7.122442.7919@jyu.fi> <1992Oct8.084959.11495@ousrvr.oulu.fi>
	<1992Oct8.131733.19637@ugle.unit.no>
Distribution: soc
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:44:53 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.131733.19637@ugle.unit.no> hafting@Lise.Unit.NO (Helge Hafting) writes:

>   I find it strange that anyone converts into another religion at all.
>   After all, if one is serios about religion, religion is something
>   one really believes in, it is not a matter of "choosing".
>   Perhaps people that convert arent really serious about religion, they just
>   convert because it is convenient?

Isn't it the other way around? If you're converting you're making a choice
and taking a stand. If you're just following what you're tradition taught
you, you've been brainwashed and probably never even thought about the rights
and the wrongs of the religion, you just accept it as fact, without
really questioning it.

annika forsten, finland
aforsten@aton.abo.fi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: euafri@eua.ericsson.se (Fredrik O"stman)
Subject: Re: Norway loses important part of culture
Reply-To: euafri@eua.ericsson.se
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 11:45:28 GMT

Stein J|rgen Rypern writes:

>we lost an important part of our cultural heritage -
>"the great main airport debate (tm)".

For the benefit of the cultural heritage, here are some advice to
politicians on how to to go about...

>...giving us all another chance at 20 more years of happy indecision.

Build houses around the new airport. In a few years time, the people
who bought these houses will start to complain and *demand* that the
airport be moved. At least build some office complexes so people can
commute from Oslo to work in the noise from the airport. Of course you
can be undecided for quite a long time about whethter you should or
should not have a farm road/highway/railway/fast railway/tram/bicycle
track/trekking rut from Oslo to the airport. What about the number and
location of the terminals? Type of airplanes? Distribution of flights
between the new and the old airport? New runways? I think there is a
good chance your cultural heritage will only increase by this
decision.

---
         ______                     _~
        (_/_ _  _  _/) _  . /)     / ) , _/)     _
       __/ _/(_(/_(/__/(_/_/Z_    (_/_/)_/__/))_(I_/)_

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,rec.arts.animation
From: joanne@bard.uk.cray.com (Joanne Lucas)
Subject: Re: New Moomintroll TV series
Organization: Cray Research (UK) Ltd
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 12:38:13 GMT
X-Posted-From: bard.uk.cray.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Dear Lee,
I have seen the Moomin series on tv over here in England, to
be honest, I didn't think it was all that good.
I think this is because when people read the Moomin books, everyone
has a different perception of the characters (favourites for example)
but on screen you only get to see one person's idea of the characters
and how they should appear. They are also very short, and missed out
a lot of detail, and I found myself wanting to shout out at the tv
'But you missed out so-and-so' :)
I adore the books and re-read them often, but after seeing one or
two episodes I switched off.

Joanne