HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rsl@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (randolph.little)
Subject: Re: Why do birds make an especially loud clatter when the sun rises?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:22:39 GMT
Summary: Communication

In article <1992Aug20.151226.24809@watson.ibm.com>, yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo) writes:
> 
>  Why do birds make an especially loud clatter when the sun rises?
>  I notice that around 5am or when the sun rises the birds seem to
>  be louder than usual.  Is this just my imagination or is it true?
>  And if true, why is it so?

Diurnal birds vocalize at first light to re-establish communication that
has been interrupted by darkness and sleep.  Such communication serves
multiple functions such as flock or family or mate contact, territorial
announcement, alarm or anxiety warning, etc.  Sometimes the "clatter" can
be attributed to a single function, but generally it serves multiple
functions in varying degrees.  

Once this communication has been re-established, the rate of vocalization
diminishes, presumably because the "message" has been delivered and the
sender no longer observes the stimulus that evoked the message.  Secondary
periods of peak vocalization occur at dusk, particularly among thrushes.

Nocturnal species have an analogous daily fluctuation of vocal activity.
Owls and caprimulgids, for example, frequently call at dusk.

Although some birds may sing sometimes "for the pleasure of it," I suggest
that this appearance is more likely to be anthropomorphism than it is a
biological fact.  Charles Hartshorne published, about 30 years ago, many
papers on the musical/pleasurable aspects of bird song.  Does anyone have
more current information on this controversial thesis?

Good birding,            -- Randy
                           <rsl@bonasa.att.com> (Randolph S. Little)
From: Joe.Morlan@f501.n914.z8.rbbs-net.ORG (Joe Morlan)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: More on hummingbird
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:19:00 GMT


       ***** On 08-13-1992, John Shipman wrote to All *****

JS> I also doubt that a hummer would bathe in standing water.

I have seen Anna's Hummingbirds bathe in standing water in my
yard.  They use small pools of water trapped in the folds of
large leaves.  These pools may be created by rain or by dew. I
suspect this is probably the most natural way hummers bathe.

--Joe Morlan, Albany, CA
Joe.Morlan@f28.n125.z1.fidonet.org.


 * Origin: SeaHunt BBS, San Francisco (415-431-0227) (8:914/501)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: wrightdb@pigsty.dental.washington.edu
Subject: birding in Paraguayan Chaco
Keywords: bird  Chaco
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 01:10:09 GMT

I am going to the Chaco this Fall (for mammals, of all things). I want to  
check out the birding while down there, but can't locate a field guide for  
the region.  Local sources tell me none exists.  Any suggestions as to a  
reasonable facsimile, or set of field guides intended for other regions  
that together will provide decent coverage of Chaco birds (without adding  
100 pounds to my baggage)?  Also, I will be working near Filadelfia -- are  
there any particularly good spots for birds in that neighborhood?  

David Wright			dwright@u.washington.edu
Orthodontics SM-46
University of Washington
Seattle, WA  98195
From: drintoul@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (David A Rintoul)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: black-shouldered kite in Wyoming
Date: 18 Aug 1992 20:49:10 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

Black-shouldered kites have nested in S. Dakota (in 1988) and in
                            ^^^^^^
Kansas (in 1989).  DeSante and Pyle (1986) list it as an extremely rare
vagrant in Wyoming.  SO, it is certainly possible that you saw
a black-shouldered kite in Wyoming, but it would have to be 
classified as a low probability event.
-- 
Dave Rintoul            Internet: drintoul@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Biology Division - KSU     Latitude 39.18, Longitude -96.34
Manhattan KS 66506-4901                         TCN: id2418
(913)-532-5832 or 6663                  FAX: (913)-532-6653
From: eddie@cstr.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Rooney)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: birding in scotland
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:54:48 GMT
Organization: Centre for Speech Technology Research, Edinburgh University

In article <l8llfnINNiu@news.bbn.com>, lmadden@bbn.com (Leslie Madden) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> 	hello all,
|> 
|> 	i will be visiting scotland in september. i will be in edinburgh for
|> 	most of the visit - but may be going to the island of skye. can
|> 	anyone recommend books for identifying birds in those areas?

There are lots of good field guides to birds in Britain and Europe (e.g.
Collins Field Guide, by Peterson, Mountford and Hollom).  For purely British
birds (often an advantage to have a more limited guide, since you don't keep
thinking you've seen something which only lives in the Urals), the
Mitchell Beazley Pocket Guide to British Birds (sponsored by the RSPB) is
very compact and extremely useful, with *LOTS* of illustrations of each bird
(including typical views in flight, etc., which can make all the difference).
Unfortunately it's not got any distribution maps in.

All these books are available in most bookshops in Edinburgh - James Thin's,
on South Bridge (by the University, and only 5 minutes walk from the Royal
Mile) has got a good stock, as has Waterstone's, the BIG bookseller on
George St.

As for where to see things, there are several local guides (e.g. Ian Andrews, The
Birds of
the Lothians (around Edinburgh); birds of Fife, birds of Islay), most of which
are available in places like Thin's.

There is also the Scottish Ornithologists' Club bookshop, 21 Regent Terrace,
Edinburgh EH7 5BT.  Tel. +44 31 556 6042.  They have or will find *everything*,
and are worth a visit (but check their opening times before you go, as they are
a bit out of the way).

=========================================================================

Edmund Rooney					email:eddie@cstr.ed.ac.uk
						Tel. +44 31 650 2801
Centre for Speech Technology Research
University of Edinburgh
80, South Bridge,
Edinburgh EH1 1HN
Scotland

=========================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: andrewt@watson.ibm.com (Andrew Taylor)
Subject: Re: DEET, binoculars, and human skin
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:25:08 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <BsvMn6.9qq@zoo.toronto.edu> tony@zoo.toronto.edu
(Anthony L. Lang) writes:
>Aside from DEET's immediate effects on skin, I shudder to think
>of the long term effects of applying hydrocarbon derived industrial organic
>molecules on my skin.

Whenever I feel dubious about the effects of long-term exposure
to DEET I remind myself of the risks of insect-carried diseases.
Even in southern Australia, there are are several uncommon but
unpleasant diseases e.g. Ross River Fever. In the tropics, there are
of course, many.  

You can use DEET without applying it to your skin.  In Australia,
DEET-impregnated wrist-bands are sold. They are particularly
recommended to people visiting malarial areas but unable to
use normal prophylaxsis. Alternatively you can apply DEET to
your clothing. Apparently DEET lasts much longer applied
to cloth instead of skin.

Andrew
From: trumble@src.dec.com (Bill Trumble)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: white raptor ID needed - Lake Tahoe
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:02:59 GMT
Organization: DEC Systems Research Center

It was on Wednesday, Aug. 5 in the early afternoon. I was on the cable 
tram at South Lake Tahoe, on my way down from the Heavenly Valley. I 
noticed a medium-size raptor perched upright at the top of a conifer 
about 20 yards or so away. My first view of it was from the side, and 
I had a front view of it as the tram continued downslope. It appeared 
to be completely white with a faint creamy tinge especially on the tail 
which extended below the branch on which it perched. Its eyes and beak 
appeared dark. Size hard to judge - maybe up to red-tail hawk size.

If anyone has any ideas about what this could have been (before my 
imagination runs riot) I'd be very grateful to hear them. 

Bill Trumble
DEC-SRC, Palo Alto, CA
trumble@src.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: srh3@Ra.MsState.Edu (Steven R. Hollis)
Subject: help wanted
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:23:09 GMT

I have a letter that would be of interest to this group, but it is in elm. How would i load it into vi?  Thanks

Steve

--
================================================================================Steve Hollis--Your friendly neighborhood zoology major
srh3@ra.msstate.edu
================================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: rising@zoo.toronto.edu (Jim Rising)
Subject: Tony's ID
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:07:50 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

I confess that when I read that description the first thing that
I though of was Carolina Chickadee--like Tony and others.  As for
being 4-noted, the notes are not all of equal volume (or hearability,
if I may coin a word).  Unless I'm close to one, I generally hear 
only the first & third elements; as well, I think that they commonly
sing only a 3-noted song (but I may over-estimate this due to my
hearing loss).  However, even if you can't hear all of the song it
still doesn't sound like a Black-cap.
-- 
Name:     Jim Rising
Mail:     Dept. Zoology, Univ. Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada    M5S 1A1
UUCP:     uunet!attcan!utzoo!rising 
BITNET:   rising@zoo.utoronto.ca
From: pstevens@Metaphor.COM (Paul Stevens)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: industrial organic molecules and other
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:22:26 GMT
Reply-To: pstevens@Metaphor.COM (Paul Stevens)
Distribution: na
Organization: m4

In article <1992Aug12.184316.11314@ncsu.edu>, ssouther@ent1.ent.ncsu.edu (P. Sterling Southern) writes:
|> Tony, talking of DEET, spoke of his reluctance to put "hydrocarbon
|> derived industrial organic molecules" on his skin.  Toby took him
|> somewhat to task.
|> 
|> Without ANY intention to flame Tony, I come down a bit more on Toby's
|> side.  There is a strong tendency in our culture currently to believe
|> everything artificial/industrial is bad and everything natural is good.
|> Toby's point (I hope I'm interpreting him right) is that a chemical is 
|> a chemical is a chemical.  Certainly there are negative aspects to many
|> products of technology.  On the other hand, plants can make some very 
|> natural - and very lethal - compounds.  Both natural and industrial 
|> compounds can rise up to bite us; each should be judged on its effect, 
|> not its origin. 
|> 
|> This does not mean of course that Tony should slather on the DEET.  His
|> choice is the conservative approach of avoiding even low levels of risk.
|> Some folks, however, avoid DEET like the plague but think nothing of
|> using a mixture of 36 "natural plant oils" to ward off insects.  I
|> strongly suspect that the long term risks of DEET have been far more
|> extensively studied that those of that mixture of natural products, and
|> they are not necessarily safer because they are natural. 
|> 

I don't have detailed scientific data, but anything that can melt plastic
can't be all that great to be coating your skin with.  I do use it when
I'm in really infested areas, but I try to not to use it for long periods.

When I was birding in Peru in the Amazon basin I was interested to see
that the scientists that lived there studying birds refused to use
anything (DEET or "natural plant oils") and just kept well buttoned-up
and covered.  They felt that continual use of DEET for weeks or months
on end was too great a risk.
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+

   Paul Stevens                        {apple|decwrl}!metaphor!pstevens
   Metaphor Computer Systems           pstevens@metaphor.com
   Mountain View, CA
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: tony@zoo.toronto.edu (Anthony L. Lang)
Subject: DEET
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:20:07 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

Sterling Southern writes:

>
>Without ANY intention to flame Tony, I come down a bit more on Toby's
>side.  There is a strong tendency in our culture currently to believe
>everything artificial/industrial is bad and everything natural is good.
>Toby's point (I hope I'm interpreting him right) is that a chemical is 
>a chemical is a chemical.  Certainly there are negative aspects to many
>products of technology.  On the other hand, plants can make some very 
>natural - and very lethal - compounds.  Both natural and industrial 
>compounds can rise up to bite us; each should be judged on its effect, 
>not its origin. 
>

My original posting said that DEET was caustic to the skin.  
Perhaps I should have been more specific: 
it makes my skin turn red and peel after
a few days of use.  The result is painful.

To reply to another posting: I DO make an effort to avoid
insect-born diseases (Western Equine Encephalitis is a 
problem where I grew up in southern Saskatchewan), but
as I said in my posting, I do it by covering up with tighly woven
cotton fabrics.
-- 
Anthony Lang
Dept. of Zoology, Univ. of Toronto
tony@zoo.utoronto.ca
From: sandee@Think.COM (Daan Sandee)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: Possible Blk-Shouldered Kite?
Date: 20 Aug 1992 00:10:04 GMT
Organization: TMC
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: telecaster.think.com

In article <WVENABLE.92Aug20085039@algona.stats.adelaide.edu.au>, wvenable@algona.stats.adelaide.edu.au (Bill Venables) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> Paul> While on vacation in Eastern Wyoming, earlier this August, I had an unusual
|> Paul> sighting. The bird was a medium to small sized raptor with long thin wings, a
|> Paul> slight body and an elongate tail. In addition, it was over-all white in color
|> Paul> with black carpal patches on the underside of the wings. As far as I know the
|> Paul> only raptor which fits this description is the Black Shouldered Kite....
|> 
|> As a curious footnote, there is an Australian Black Shouldered Kite that
|> fits this description perfectly.  This is not a international species, like
|> the peregrine falcon and the osprey, is it?

Authorities differ. According to the AOU (the American OU, not the
Australian), there is one species, _Elanus caeruleus_ (Black-shouldered Kite)
with a distribution in parts of North and South America, Eurasia, and
Australia.
According to others, there is
Black-winged Kite,     E. caeruleus   (southern Europe to Philippines)
White-tailed Kite,     E. leucurus    (Americas)
Black-shouldered Kite, E. notatus (a.k.a. E. axillaris)    (Australia)

So yes, basically we're talking about the same bird, even though it's a
matter of opinion whether it's taxonomically the same species. I don't
know if the three subspecies can be distinguished on sight.

Daan Sandee                                           sandee@think.com
Thinking Machines Corporation
Cambridge, Mass 02142                                 (617) 234-5044
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: colo@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za (Illan Colombick)
Subject: Re: Why do birds make an especially loud clatter when the sun rises?
Organization: Electrical Engineering, University of the Witwatersrand
Date: 22 Aug 92 15:53:00 GMT

In <1992Aug20.151226.24809@watson.ibm.com> yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo) writes:

> Why do birds make an especially loud clatter when the sun rises?
> I notice that around 5am or when the sun rises the birds seem to
> be louder than usual.  Is this just my imagination or is it true?

> And if true, why is it so?

It's not your imagination, its what birds are for!

That's why roosters are associated with waking up....

I always imagined it was because, well, that's when the birdies wake up, 
stretch, get the day going.... 
OK, so I don't know why, but it's not your imagination. Without birds, dawn
would just be a cold, darkish, fresh-smelling thing.
-- 

  \\\\\/// 	        Illan Colombick
  C o l o      E-mail: colo@odie.ee.wits.ac.za
   %% - %      NeXT mail: colo@TuRInG.ee.wits.ac.za
    ~%%%~        I wonder how It'll all turn out
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: aforsten@aton.abo.fi (Annika Forsten INF)
Subject: Re: Endangered birds of the world
Organization: Abo Akademi University, Finland
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 14:34:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.021512.19537@leland.Stanford.EDU> ehle@leland.Stanford.EDU (Robert Ehle) writes:

   Return-Path: <sspenny@teaching.cs.adelaide.edu.au>

>	   Hi, if was able to post this i would,..but we have had this
>   privilage disabled..anyway...seeing you work for a
>   publisher.....myself
>   a keen bird watcher and conservationist...is their any publications
>   on endangered birds of the world....

There is a book by ICBP called 'The Red Data Book'. It contains information
about all endangered species and is updated pretty often I believe. There
are Red Data Books  on several countries and other areas too I think.

'Save the Birds' is also about endangered species, having more text
about them than the above mentioned title. Let me know if you need
more info about these.

annika forsten, finland
aforsten@aton.abo.fi
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: rising@zoo.toronto.edu (Jim Rising)
Subject: DEET
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:25:39 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

I admire Tony's ability to put up with bugs.  Of course, when I was
at Churchill with him it was cold enough that mosquitos were not a
problem.  It can be pretty nasty in the Hudson Bay Lowlands or 
MacKenzie River Valley when it is warm--and pretty hard to tolerate
extra clothing.  But I digress.

I heard a show on the CBC Radio not long ago about insect repellents.
DEET is one of the most effective--100% for the first bit of time (I
think 2 hrs); Skin-so-soft is only 85% effective.  Many "folk
cures" have not been demonstrated to be effective at all.  The 
scientist who worked with testing products (an entomologist from 
Univ. of Guelph in Ontario) essentially said that DEET had been
very thoroughly tested and had never been found to be dangerous (if
you don't drink it, etc.).  He cautioned people against using 
"natural cures" because many of these haven't been tested and could
be quite nasty.  As someone else said, natural ain't necessarily
good and safe.  How would you like to rub poison ivy all over your
body?  That's natural.  And there's a plant in Australia that could
kill you, etc.  Incidentally, Andrew.  How does one discourage those
little black flys of Queensland and the Northern Territories?  DEET
didn't seem to do any good.  They don't bite, just drive you nuts!
-- 
Name:     Jim Rising
Mail:     Dept. Zoology, Univ. Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada    M5S 1A1
UUCP:     uunet!attcan!utzoo!rising 
BITNET:   rising@zoo.utoronto.ca
From: shamus@bcsaic.boeing.com (Shamus McBride)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Looking for scientific names
Date: 18 Aug 92 22:40:20 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle

Does any one have a file listing common and scientific
names for birds in North America they can send me (or post)?

--
Shamus Mc Bride           | tecslm1@sdc.boeing.com      
Boeing Computer Services  | tecslm1%sdc@atc.boeing.com
(206) 865-5047            | uw-beaver!bcsaic!sdc!tecslm1
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: ssouther@ent1.ent.ncsu.edu (P. Sterling Southern)
Subject: black-shouldered kite in Wyoming
Originator: ssouther@ent1.ent.ncsu.edu
Organization: Dept. of Entomology - NCSU, Raleigh, NC
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 21:05:51 GMT

Paul asked about the possibility of black-shouldered kites in eastern
Wyoming, stating that they were native of the Gulf Coast.

This species is also found in California, so that's another possible
source.  It's a long way over some pretty noticable mountains from
Calif. to Wyoming of course.  Up from the Gulf would perhaps be the more
likely route.  We have had one sighting (at least) in NC in recent
years.

Perhaps some of the Wyoming folks can add better info.
-- 
| Sterling Southern, NCSU-Entomology, Box 7613, Raleigh NC 27695-7613   |
|=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=|
| Voice: (919) 515-2703      |  CAROLINE: ssouther@ent1                 |
| FAX:   (919) 515-7746      |  INTERNET: ssouthern@ent.ncsu.edu        |
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 11:46:15 EDT
From: <HYD@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Possible Blk-Shouldered Kite?

 While on vacation in Eastern Wyoming, earlier this August, I had an unusual
sighting. The bird was a medium to small sized raptor with long thin wings, a
slight body and an elongate tail. In addition, it was over-all white in color
with black carpal patches on the underside of the wings. As far as I know the
only raptor which fits this description is the Black Shouldered Kite. Since
this Kite is native to the Gulf Coast, it seems unlikely that a sighting in
South-eastern Wyoming/South Dakota would be very unlikely. Most guides indicate
that this species is expanding it's range inland. Can anyone tell me if it is
at all possible that this really was a Black Shouldered Kite? If not, could
you suggest other possible species? It was definitely a raptor and also not an
osprey.
                                   Thanks,  Paul
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: ssouther@ent1.ent.ncsu.edu (P. Sterling Southern)
Subject: Re:  Info on birds of India
Originator: ssouther@ent1.ent.ncsu.edu
Organization: Dept. of Entomology - NCSU, Raleigh, NC
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:15:07 GMT

Vivek asks if it would be appropriate to post a write up on birding in
India.  I would be happy to see it.  Who knows, Ed may send me that ten
million dollars he keeps writing me about and I'll be able to go.
-- 
| Sterling Southern, NCSU-Entomology, Box 7613, Raleigh NC 27695-7613   |
|=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=|
| Voice: (919) 515-2703      |  CAROLINE: ssouther@ent1                 |
| FAX:   (919) 515-7746      |  INTERNET: ssouthern@ent.ncsu.edu        |
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 08:01:10 EDT
From: <PXF3@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: Endangered birds of the world

_The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Birds_ (Prentice Hall, 1990) has a list of
birds of the world in the back of the book.  It includes the birds' Red Book
status (endangered, vulnerable, indeterminate, insufficiently known, rare,
of special concern, candidate, and probably extinct).  The book was done in
association with the ICBP and has beautiful art.

If you're trying to track it down, the "consultant in chief" is Christopher
Perrins.  That might show up as author or editor in a library catalog or
bookstore master list.  ISBN = 0-13-083635-4.
--
Paula Ford   | Internet: pxf3@psuvm.psu.edu  | PO Box 674
"Snaefridh"  | Bitnet:   pxf3@psuvm          | Hollidaysburg, PA 16648
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended
up where I needed to be.  --Dirk Gently