HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: RDC's and SPV's?
Date: 12 Apr 92 02:08:37 GMT

Ed Andradee writes:

> Could someone please answer this question for me? I am young, and so do not
> have first hand knowledge of all the details, but from what I have heard over
> the years, it sounds like the RDC's and SPV's were/are very unreliable units.
> Why is this? IS this because of a fault in the design of these units, of what?
> Any insight would be appreciated.

In the 1950's when Western Pacific ran these as trains 1 & 2 between SF
and Salt Lake City, they ran reliably for straight through service.  I had
occasion to ride from SF to the Feather River area up to Portola on
weekends as a summer employee on a signal gang and they seemed to run
flawlessly and on time.  I didn't get much scenery because they ran at
night in this part of the run.  The best view was from the outfit cars
when our locale changed from Paxton (near Keddy, Jct of the Indian Valley
RR) to Pleasant grove in the valley south of Oroville on a move behind a
local freight.

We had people on the crew that went to Salt Lake City once in awhile who
reported that after Winemucca speeds were over 100 mph.  Of course this
was off the record since there was no cause to review any record.  I'm
not even sure whether they used a recorder.  But this speed was apparently
within their capability.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
From: pierson@cimcad.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Color Light Signals
Keywords: signals, color-light
Date: 8 Apr 92 12:06:44 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In article <1992Apr7.133706.9882@tellab5.tellabs.com>, jcj@tellabs.com (jcj)
writes, in part:

>In article <11967@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W.
>Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:
>>... C&NW is phasing out searchlight signals in favor of color light 
>>signals because they are simpler.  He didn't say so, but I suspect that 
>>with modern solid-state controls, it's cheaper to control three bulbs 
>>separately than to reverse the polarity to an expensive bipolar signal 
>>head relay assembly.
> 
>Elementary question: How do you get yellow?  Giant bipolar LEDs? 8-)

	???  Same way as always, for color-light:  Yellow filter on one
	unit.  The "solid-state" refers to the controls.  The Searchlight
	style, effectively, combined the relay & the color changing mechanism.
	With "relays" now replacable with solid state power switching,
	"color light" style heads & equipment have _zero_ moving parts.

	(Searchlight redesigns with fiber optic are around, so _they_
	have no moving parts.  The classic "searchlight" signal, tho, has
	some.)

thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
200 Forest St			|I am the NRA.
Marlboro, Mass		01752	pierson@cimnet.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Playing Chicken!!!
Date: 14 Apr 92 15:49:28 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <3116@cs.rit.edu> mef@cs.rit.edu (Mark E Fischer) writes:
> Some people have some very strange reasoning why grade crossing accidents 
> happen.  I few years back I had a long discussion with a woman who
> insisted that there were electromagnetic forces in the rails that cause 
> cars to stall on the tracks and jam the car doors shut so that you can't
> get out.  That was here explanation and and hours worth of discussion 
> couldn't convince her otherwise.
> 
> Sigh... How can you argue with logic like that?

Gee, I don't know.  If someone can't understand why something scientific
like Murphy's law explains such things, then they're likely go fix on
the most bizarre explanations...   8-)

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
but no way officially representing:   domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
Commodore, Engineering Department     phone:  215-431-9349 (only by moonlite)
From: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Hudson Leighton)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Ham Radio Group.....SF Bay Area (Now MPLS/STP)
Date: 11 Apr 92 14:45:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: orbit.7451
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

Yes the 44.100 is the official railfan repeater for the Minneapolis/St. Paul
area.

Hunting Super Bowl Biz trains and other special events is a blast when you
have several people out looking.  

I have gone railfaning with Dan (N0KFB) using ham radio and have spent the day
chaseing trains with him and NEVER meeting face to face.

--Hudson  N0NMX


UUCP: {crash tcnet}!orbit!pnet51!hudson
INET: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org
ICBM:   Lat. 44.59 x Long. 93.13
Advertisement: Try the Railway Post Office BBS (612) 377-2197 a Railfan BBS
From: macman+@pitt.edu (Dennis H Lippert)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Danger Grade Crossing
Date: 9 Apr 92 22:46:20 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Apr9.160931.16951@mips2.ma30.bull.com> K.Buck@ma30.bull.com writes:
>goes wrong.  when possible, find a spot that's above track level so you
>don't have the derailed hopper cars chasing you down the banking :-)

What?  And take the sport out of railfanning?
How do you expect me to get *any* exercise?

lots o' smilies! :-)
-Den
-- 
===============================================================================
Dennis Lippert - macman@unix.cis.pitt.edu
The "Mac Maniac" operator at the Hillman Research Lab - Univ. of Pittsburgh
- all comments are mine, don't use them without proper identification.
From: jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Washington DC question
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:39:55 GMT

Yesterday, I took the Washington Metro from the end of the line in
Alexandria Virginia to National Airport (so I could get back to Iowa).
I think it was the yellow line?  Anyway, my questions have to do with
what I saw out the window on the trip.

The Metro line I was on parallels a number of railroad tracks for a
good part of the distance it travels.  Looking West (I think) out
of the Metro car I was in, we passed a string of nicely painted
RFP diesels (Richmond, Fredricksburgh and Potomac?)  We also passed
a large yard area that looked like it had once seen better times, and
my primary questions surround the structures in that yard.

The yard contained a number of grey painted I-beams that pointed up and
sometimes angled over.  They looked like they could become or could have
been catenary supports.  The grey-painted ones looked fairly new, and
that makes me wonder -- are these part of an attempt to extend the
North East Corridor electrification across the Potomac, or are they the
remains of an old extension across the Potomac that must have seen some
maintenance after the 1960's to get that kind of I-beam used for catenary
support.
					Doug Jones
					jones@cs.uiowa.edu
From: Steven.Schultz@mixcom.mixcom.com (Steven.Schultz)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Soo U30c's?
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:30:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: mixcom.1992Apr07.213038.6357
Distribution: usa
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.

I am not sure if there Soo got any Milwaukee U30Cs. There is a U30C still
in MILW paint here in town, although it's leaving soon. They might have had
some. I don't have a current MILW book, so I'll ask around.

Steven.Schultz@mixcom.com


-- 
Steven.Schultz@mixcom.com
Leader, Military and Arms topic, Hobbies Conference, Exec-PC BBS (414)789-4210

"Eternal peace lasts only until the next war."-Old Russian Proverb
From: rap@tcom.stc.co.uk (Richard Porter)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Manchester Metro
Date: 9 Apr 92 16:10:16 GMT
Reply-To: rap@tcom.stc.co.uk (Richard Porter)
Organization: BNR Europe Limited

I'm told that Manchester MetroLink services are now operating between
Victoria and Bury over the former BR track. Test runs are being made
over the city centre section which is expected to carry public services
later in the year.

Anyone up there in Rainy City care to comment?
From: mikel@berlioz.nsc.com (Michael G. Lohmeyer)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Car Attacks SP Train
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:01:55 GMT
Organization: National Semiconductor Corporation

In article <30182@cbmvax.commodore.com> grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) writes:
>In article <1992Apr8.213000.17317@berlioz.nsc.com> mikel@berlioz.nsc.com (Michael G. Lohmeyer) writes:
>> In article <1992Apr07.191545.28309@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com> johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com (John Mosbarger) writes:
>> >......The street crosses the track at about a
>> >30 degree angle, there are no gates or lights, but visibility is almost
>> >unrestricted in both directions.  The engineer said he saw the car from a
>> >long distance, but noticed it never slowed for the train.  He also said he
>> >was laying on the horn but to no avail......... 
>> 
>>      There were no lights or gates and the only thing the engineer was
>> using to warn cars was his horn!!  This couldn't be right.  Every railroad
>> crossing I have ever seen that didn't have lights or gates has had 
>> breakman with flares, etc. to control traffic while the train crosses.
>> Am I missing something here?
>
>Methinks you've got an urban mis-perception...

     I grew up in Oregon and went to college not too far south of McMinville
Oregon where I believe John said this happened.  I have been told by a
couple of people that uncontrolled crossings are common, so I guess that
answers my question.  I was just supporised when I made my first posting
because I have never seen an uncontrolled rail crossing in Oregon (that
I remember or that wasn't controlled by brakemen with flares), not that
they wouldn't exist, but the one that John is talking about above is in
an area of significant population.  I guess the crossing he is talking
about is more remote than I expected.  I won't be so supprised next time.

     Thanks for the input from all those who replied.

Mike
-------------
Mike Lohmeyer				mikel@berlioz.nsc.com
National Semiconductor Corporation
(408) 721-8075
From: jbvb@vax.ftp.com (James B. VanBokkelen)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: SPV (Was Re: RDC's and SPV's?)
Date: 17 Apr 92 15:17:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: cream.920417111737
Reply-To: jbvb@ftp.com
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Nntp-Software: PC/TCP NNTP

Fastest I've ever seen an RDC run (on the B&M) was 82 MPH, when an RRE
excursion was making time south from Lowell, trying to get onto the
Stoneham branch without delaying a regular passenger train behind it.
I've seen 75 MPH many times, across the marshes from Rowley to Newburyport
West (Wilbur Rogers had a party boat business on the side, and he'd do
the best time he could when he had a boatload to take out at 1830; the
train was due in Newburyport at 1820 or so).  Offhand, I'd guess that
the B&M's cars couldn't go much faster; the highest speed limit anywhere
on the road was 70 MPH, and the RDCs all did their share of commuter
work (some stops less than a mile apart).

James B. VanBokkelen		26 Princess St., Wakefield, MA  01880
FTP Software Inc.		voice: (617) 246-0900  fax: (617) 246-0901
From: dboone@IASTATE.EDU (David L Boone)
Subject: Re: The Chicago flood
Reply-To: dboone@IASTATE.EDU (David L Boone)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 22:40:33 GMT

In article <12189@ns-mx.uiowa.edu>, jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W.
Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:
> I'm surprised that nobody's posted on the great Chicago flood.  It's got
> railroad connections all over:
                ...

Thanks, Doug, for getting the ball rolling.  I've been watching the net every
day expecting someone to provide some insight.  A friend of mine has Moffatt's
book, so I got him to dig it up.  Really very interesting.  So, how about it,
Chicagoland experts?  Tell us all the good stuff (tm).
--
David L. Boone
Engineer, Iowa State University Computation Center
Internet: dboone@iastate.edu    Bitnet:  gn.dlb@isumvs.bitnet
Voice:    (515) 294-1977        US mail: 74 Durham Hall, Ames, IA 50011
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jmarshal@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John L Marshall)
Subject: Re: B&O, BR&P, B&S, WA&G (was Re: Railway Lantern)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 15:17:47 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.075039.2353@cevax.simpact.com> kclark@cevax.simpact.com (K
en J. Clark) writes:
>
>The WAG was best known for its former B&M outside braced wooden boxcars.
>Painted boxcar red, the words "Wellsville, Addison & Gateton" zig-zagged up
>and down around the outside braces.  They were interchanged primarily with
>the EL at Wellsville.  They were used to ship in hides from slauter houses
>in the mid-west.  You definitely did *not* want to get down-wind from a WAG
>boxcar in summer. :-)
>

WAG also had F units, which were bought by PAT (Port Authority Transit) of
Pittsburgh and rebuilt after WAG shut down.  These rebuilt Fs operated 
commuter service until the trains were discontinued a couple years ago.

On another (somewhat) related issue, what is the background of the P&W 
(Pittsburgh & Western?) Subdivision of CSX that runs from Pittsburgh to New 
Castle, PA?
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jwj2@po.cwru.edu (Jerry W. Jordak)
Subject: Re: SP/SF merger paint scheme spotted
Keywords: Kodachrome, Santa Fe
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 13:21:50 GMT

In article <10296@gollum.twg.com> nolan@twg.com (Nolan Hinshaw) writes:

>Just last Friday, 3 April, I was waiting for the Caltrain commuter on San
>Francisco's peninsula and spotted a GP9 in the Kodak paint job. I thought all
>the old stuff was gone by now. So who knows how many units of which types
>still wear that uniform? Where do they live? Feeble minds wanna know.

There are a couple in Conrail's Collinwood Yard in Cleveland, OH. They are
part of a batch of 60 GE's that CR is rebuilding. I remember there were 2 or
3 Kodachrome units there. The work is supposed to take about a year, so they
will be there a while.

Later,
-Jer
--
Jerry W. Jordak         "Beyond the door, there's peace I'm sure
a.k.a. Jermaster         And I know there'll be no more tears in heaven."
(jwj2@po.cwru.edu)                                             -Eric Clapton
From: jbvb@vax.ftp.com  (James B. VanBokkelen)
Subject: Re: Rail Maps - Wisc,Mich
Nntp-Software: PC/TCP NNTP
Reply-To: jbvb@ftp.com
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1992 08:30:46

In article <1992Apr3.105253.27626@doug.cae.wisc.edu> arnold@cae.wisc.edu (Christopher Arnold) writes:
    
    Del Lorme publishes Wisconsin, Michigan and Minnesota Atlas/Gazetters. I
    have found these to be a most excellent railfan aid.

The name is DeLorme Publishing.  They started out with a Maine Gazetteer
quite a while ago, then expanded.  Their original maps were apparently
mostly their own, and didn't have contour lines, only hashing to roughly
delimit hills (the ME, NH, VT gazetteers I've got are like this).
Recently (in the NY and PA gazetteers I've got), they've gone to a
format which is probably computer-derived from USGS maps, and does
include contour lines.  The newer ones have a little map on the back
cover which shows what states they've done so far.

Both formats show both back roads and railroads, the newer shows yards
better than the old, but there are some caevats:  First, I haven't noticed
much in the way of updating, so the Maine book shows lots of track that is
now gone, or has changed owners.  Second, the new format isn't very useful
in an urban setting, since they don't offer details of the cities.  You can
see the track, but it doesn't show all the streets, let alone name them.
The old format did have city details.

James B. VanBokkelen		26 Princess St., Wakefield, MA  01880
FTP Software Inc.		voice: (617) 246-0900  fax: (617) 246-0901
From: M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Rail Maps in General (was Re: Rail Maps - Wisc,Mich)
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:12:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: MBVM.167C3C7E2.M00209
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA 01730

In article <1992Apr4.051402.6772@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
jmarshal@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John L Marshall) writes:
 
>
>>> Del Lorme publishes Wisconsin, Michigan and Minnesota Atlas/Gazetters. I hav
>
>They also publish maps for California, Washington, Florida, Tennessee,
>Virginia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine.
>
>>
>>Are maps of this sort which show all rail lines and perhaps abandoned
>>rights-of-way on a larger scale than tourist maps available for other
>>parts of the US? My particular interest would be central New Jersey,
>>but I suspect that many rec.rr readers would find the railroad history
>>of their local area interesting. I am aware of Hagestoms maps for most
>>parts of NJ (including mine), which show current railroads, but which
>>sometimes have errors in the current railroads, and don't show abandoned
>>rights-of-way.
>
>The DeLorme atlases are fairly accurate in terms of railroads listed as still
>in service.  However, the names may not be up to date (i.e., Chessie System
>instead of CSX).  They do show abandoned lines and right of ways.
>
>--
>*******************************************************************************
>John Marshall, III                           jmarshal@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
>
>     "Hey, Bungalow Bill, what did you kill, Bungalow Bill?" - The Beatles
>*******************************************************************************
I use the DeLorme Atlases of ME, NH, VT, NY and PA constantly.  They publish
these books for about half the States.  I don't know if they have done NJ.
There is no other way I know of of getting the detailed info on rail lines and
country roads (they do not attempt in most cases to show all roads in thickly
settled areas, but do have some "City maps" in the back pages) short of buying
rooms full of USGS maps at much higher cost in money and space.  I recently
found out to my great displeasure that DeLorme as yet has not published an
Atlas of MD, though they do have one of VA.  The company is located in
Freeport ME.  Don't recall the address off hand, but Freeport is a small
enough town that you could probably get a letter delivered just by addressing
it to DeLorme Publishing Company, Freeport ME.  Aside from L. L. Bean, they're
the only "industry" in the town!
 
Len Bachelder        Archives Committee, Boston and Maine RR Historical Society
MITRE Corp.           Secretary, Massachusetts Bay Railroad Enthusiasts
Bedford MA 01730      Member, 470 Railroad Club
<M00209@mbvm.mitre.org>
 
"Amazing love, how can it be that Thou, my God, should'st die for me!"
                                                 - Charles Wesley
From: rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Montrealer Notice
Date: 17 Apr 92 19:24:26 GMT
Organization: Bolt, Beranek & Newman, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: spcsun25.bbn.com

In article <30391@cbmvax.commodore.com>, grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) writes:

|> > I think you're remembering a previous incarnation of the station, because it
|> > hasn't looked like this since the renovation was finished.  The station
|> > proper occupies about half of the lower level of the concourse, with an
|> > immense ticket counter, baggage areas, and the gates/waiting areas  (and
|> > most improbably, a McD's at one end-- golden arches and all).  The ceiling
|> > over the waiting area is the concourse roof, which is about 25 feet up.  The
|> > platforms haven't changed, but (at least to my eye) the platform area in DC
|> > has mostly been well-kept up.
|> 
|> Yes, this is probably the case.  It's been a few years since I was through
|> there and what you describe sounds like a major improvement from what I
|> remember.  It's kind of shame that DC is such a nice city for the motorist,
|> or I'd take the train more than once every n-years.

If you haven't been in Washington Union Station in "a few years",
you probably won't recognize it now.   They've done a LOT of work
to make it nice.

Another place that will surprise you if you haven't
used it in a while is Boston's South Station, which was gutted
and beautifully rebuilt about four years ago.  See it soon, though,
because the next stage of construction will put a bus terminal
above the track stubs, which are now in the open air.
 
-- 
Ron Newman		rnewman@bbn.com
From: 31ochs@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Amtrak's Silver Meteor and Lakeshore Limited
Date: 9 Apr 92 19:47:21 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <1992Apr8.203837.23912@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema) writes:
> 
> In a previous article, boylan@sw.stratus.com (Richard Boylan) says:
> 
>>
>>Want unusual scenery on the Lake Shore Limited?
>>How about a New York Central 4-8-2 Mohawk, one of the last NYC steam
>>locomotives extant?  It's parked next to the station in (I think)
>>Elkhart, Indiana.  (Did I get the town right?  Sorry, Indiana, it was
>>late at night and I didn't write down its location.)
> 
>  Elkhart is the right town.  The steamer is south of the tracks across from the
> depot, behind a chain link fence.  There's also a solid-black Amtrak GG1, an
> E8 of unknown heritage, some NYC-painted passenger cars, and various other
> pieces of rolling stock back there as well.  Other than the passenger cars
> (which I think are part of a restaurant) all the equipment is in fairly poor
> condition paint-wise.  It looked like the E8 was being worked on last August
> (with all that bridgework exposed!) so it might be completely fixed up and
> painted by now.

Yes, you are correct... This is a restaurant, attached to a museum. They are
currently attempting to restore the equipment there. I din't know if they
will ever finish it though.. They have an NYC Mohawk, an E8, which by the
way still looks like bridgework, a GG-1, some old wooden boxcars, some
cabooses(cabeese?),another tender, and various equipment in the buildings,
like a control panel from the Elkhart Hump Yard, which Conrail had replaced,
and historical pictures, and items and stuff. The NYC passenger cars are
not actual NYC cars, I forget their heritege, but they have been painted
NYC. The restaurant has good food by the way, if you ever are in the area.
It is also a fairly good train watching place, being Conrail's mainline
from Chicago to New York, although a lot of the foreign rr's movements
terminate at Elkhart yard, which is visible just west of the museum.
It is Conrail's largest hump yard I believe, and handles anywhere from
2800-3200 cars a day. It's an interesting yard. I was able to get a tour
of it with a local rail historical society, which included a museum tour
and dinner at this museum.
Hope this helps,

Fred Ochs
31ochs@gw.wmich.edu  (vax)
ochs@sol.cs.wmich.edu (unix)
_______________________________________________________
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A DASH 8-40CW with a little imagination ;^)