HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Laura.Gowdy@launchpad.unc.edu (Laura Gowdy)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: aborticfacients
Date: 10 Jan 93 02:18:56 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service


	Let's try that again. 
	I keep seeing Net requests for herbal-abortion info.
	It's reasonable to want your abortion at home, under your control,
affordably.  It's not reasonable to expect people on the Net to risk
prosecution for practicing medicine without a license, or as accessories
to your death or to the death of someone who reads their advice and uses
or misuses it.
	Thyagi and Eddie are being very canny, and officially legal, but I
think even Eddie is pushing the boundary between helpful and, well, not
helpful.  He can't post dosages.  Most books won't print them.  I suppose
you could *guess* what form and amount of the herbs he mentions to use;
doesn't this sound like a bad idea??
	It's hard to collect this kind of information even if you have
lots of time and are not desperate.  One problem is that announcing
publicly that Herb X is a safe, natural, cheap abortifacient, is a good
way to get Herb X made as illegal as marijuana so fast it'll make our
heads spin.  Not a favor. Anybody sees a way around all this, please
explain it.
	                                        -Scorpio
                                           (un-lurking)

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: plord@pioneer.uspto.gov (Paul Lord)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: RE: silence
Date: 7 Jan 1993 18:35:42 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

>Subject: Re: Keeping Silence, and Science
In article <C0H6o4.5s7.1@cs.cmu.edu> Drake writes in part:
[deletus maximus]
:>I tend to disagree with you here.  I am of the opinion that exactly duplicated
                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
:>efforts get exactly duplicated results.  In magic, nothing is ever "exactly"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
:>duplicated.  If we can isolate and identify the factors that lead to
:>success, then we can increase the chances of success over a long-term
:>period.  We do not usually do this by deciding what the factors are a priori
:>before even looking at the results.

Aha, but:  You will never be in my body and brain at the exact place and
time of any ritual I tell you about later.  Not to put too fine a point on
it, but recreating or attempting to recover and "exactly duplicate" the
conditions of a ritual is impossible.  

Put another way, the most important "factors that lead to success" are not
transferrable from one practitioner to another, because they are: 
the mind of the practitioner, the state of the universe, and the 
set/setting of the ritual at the time the ritual is performed.

*** In a successful ritual, any or all of these factors may change. ***

Isolating and identifying these factors will not alter the basic problem;
they will not make you me, will not put you there/then in my place, and will
not help you restore the universe to the state it was before the ritual
occurred*.  If you do not think that these factors have a profound influence
on a magickal working, then I beg to differ.  This is why I don't report on
specifics.  

Except this post of course, which is a precise ritual designed to remind
drake of certain aspects of magickal work, aspects of which he must be
aware, yet seems to have forgotten.

* There is supposedly a place from which you are me, and the universe is
everywhere and always, but if you're there then you obviously don't need MY
advice on anything.  At the level of this discussion, the points I raise are
critical.  At higher levels, they are (I can only assume) trivial.

Paul, who normally doesn't go to the trouble of following-up with a
mail-to-news gate, but felt a cattle-prod-like urge while under the
influence of the above revelation. 
-- 
Paul Lord / Pope Festering Meme 	
In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
From: markk@cypress.West.Sun.COM (Mark Allen Kampe)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Keeping Silence
Date: 6 Jan 1993 16:32:40 GMT
Organization: SunSoft South
Distribution: world
Reply-To: markk@cypress.West.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: sagredo.west.sun.com

> I note with some peevishness that of the two direct requests for
> information which I have posted here one drew zero replies, and the
> other only two, whereas my requests for programming info average around
> eight.

Computer BBS's are full of people who think they know how to program
and are eager to prove it by offering assistance to other people.  My
experience with a little over twenty-five years of programming and
ten years on software BBSs is that the people who give the most advice 
are not the people who have the most experience, and in many cases 
the people who ask the most questions.

Perhaps people on more spiritual paths

	(a) recognize their own ignorance and hold their tongues

	(b) recognize the nature of the question and querant and
	    see that an attempt to answer it would be futile

	(c) understand their path and are disinclined to stray
	    from it.

It is difficult to imagine a situation where "peevishness" is an
appropriate response to people with nothing to say deciding not
to say it.

I don't think there is a "tacit rule against discussing technique".
I have seen several very explicit posts about rituals.  They seldom
trigger extensive discussion.  You might think that this is because
of an iluminati-esque censorship.  I am more inclined to believe that
it is because "simple statements of fact" leave very little room
for discussion.  If someone describes the mechanics of a ritual, how
can one respond?

	(1) that is indeed a ritual.

	(2) gee, I know of a similar ritual.

	(3) gee, that isn't like any rituals I know.

The construction of a ritual, the personal preparation for a ritual,
experiences one has during and after a ritual ... these are things 
to discuss - but this turns into maundering theory.  There just
isn't much to discuss about words, gestures, vestments and props -
particularly among people who recognize words, gestures, vestments
and props as arbitrary accoutrements, secondary or even tertiary to
real magick.
From: mark.terka@rose.com (mark terka)
Subject: Rosicrucian BBS?
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 03:10:49 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 01-12-93 22:03
I have this number for a Rosicrucian BBS in Oceanside, Calif (619-721-1828)
and am able to connect at 2400 baud, but that's it! I simply hang for about
15 sec and then it disconects.

Anyone else know about this?

... ----->|*  MARK!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
---
   RoseMail 2.00 : RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: windsphire@wizard.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: Requesting relaxation and brain exercises
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: 11 Jan 93 22:35:28 MST

> 
>  I am compiling a file containing relaxation exercises and various brain/mind
> exercises. 

> formula. My source material includes:
>  _Superlearning_ by Ostrander and Schroeder (Dell press, 1982)
>  _Angel Tech_ by Alli (Falcon Press, 1986)
>  _Psychological Exercises and Essays_ by Orage (Weiser, 1974, orig. 1930)
>  _Undoing Yourself_ by Hyatt (Falcon Press, 1989, revised fourth printing)
>  _Trance-Formations_ by Grinder and Bandler (Real People Press, 1981)
>  I am intending on obtaining _Pumping Ions_ and using material from _Prometheus
> Rising_ by Wilson and _Programming and Metaprogramming the Human Biocomputer_.

Here are some more that may be of interest ... (sorry if I've munged the
header... it didn't seem to like it)

o	Practical Work on Self. 
	Tantric Sex. Both by EJ Gold
	- see esp. 'Thinking by Form' in the first and the blue lightbulb
	  routine in the second ;)
o	Working Inside Out. Margo Adair.
	- "Creating a Language to Speak to your 'deeper' Self"
	- "Its all Energy"
o	Mind Magic. Bill Harvey.
	- "Over one hundred Do-it-Yourself consciousness exercises"
	- "Dis-identifying with the Thought Senate ... subtitle of
	   this exercise: No throwing your authority behind untested
	   head spewings"
	- "Improving inner visibility"
o	Complete Meditation. Steve Kravette
	- "Accelerated learning, advanced knowing"
	- "Unfreezing images"
o	Initiation into Hermetics. Franz Bardon
	- 10 Step program in Magickal, Mental and Physical training.
o	The Godess Sekhmet. Robert Masters.
	- "Creating and Experiencing an Imaginal Body and its 
	   Transformations"
	- "Making the body with 12 arms"
o	The Possible Human. Jean Houston.
	- "The Art of High Practice"
o	Brain Power. Karl Albrecht.
	- "Recognizing logical dodges and fallacies"
o	Brain Building. M. Savant & L. Fleischer
o	Voluntary Controls. Jack Schwarz.
	- "Chakra meditations. Paradoxical breathing"
o	A Book of Games. Hugh Prather
o	Concentration. Mouni Sadhu.
o	Concentration. Ernest Wood.
o	Concentration and Meditation. C. Humphreys.
o	Power Thinking. EH Shattock
o	Creative Imagery... "How to visualize in all 5 senses". W. Fezler
o	On Method Acting. Edward Easty
	"Affective memory", "Concentration", "Animal exercises"
o	Time, Space and Knowledge. Tarthang Tulku
	-"The Path from Ordinary Time to Great Time",
	-"Exercise 17: The Object and its Glow"
	-"The Obscuring Nature of Ordinary Knowledge"
o	Kum Nye Relation. Tarthang Tulku.
o	The Psychic Explorer. V Van Dam.
	-"Laser Projection Technique", "Laser Harmonics"

To be continued....

	-Windsphire

	"It is not a variation but an end.
	 Yet to speak of the whole world as metaphor
	 Is still to stick to the contents of the mind..." -Wallace Stevens
From: mike.mcaulay@spacebbs.com (Mike Mcaulay) 
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Keeping Silence
Date: 7 Jan 93 03:39:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SPACE BBS - Menlo Park, CA - 10 Lines + 4gB - 415-323-4193
Reply-To: mike.mcaulay@spacebbs.com (Mike Mcaulay) 


markk@cypress.West.Sun.COM writes:

-> > I note with some peevishness that of the two direct requests for
-> > information which I have posted here one drew zero replies, and the
-> > other only two, whereas my requests for programming info average
-> > around eight.
->
-> Computer BBS's are full of people who think they know how to program
-> and are eager to prove it by offering assistance to other people.

I should have been more specific.  An example of a question I asked
recently was "where can a DOS device driver find its command-line string
when its Initialize routine is called at boot-up?"  So I'm not talking
about theoretical type questions, but obscure nuts-n-bolts minutiae.
Sound familiar?  Esoterica, if you will.

-> I don't think there is a "tacit rule against discussing technique". I
-> have seen several very explicit posts about rituals.  They seldom
-> trigger extensive discussion.

I'm not advocating "extensive discussion."  But I *am* deploring the
virtual lack of discussion of particulars here.  The threads needn't go
round and round but neither should they utterly fail to exist.

->  You might think that this is because of an iluminati-esque
-> censorship.

Are you joking?  What kind of a fool do you take me for?  EVERYbody
knows the illuminati are nothing more than a puppet-arm of the Secret
Jewish Banker Masonic Communist Discordian Anti Hollow Earth Nazi Space
Cow Mutilators From Hell! :-)

-> The construction of a ritual, the personal preparation for a ritual,
-> experiences one has during and after a ritual ... these are things to
-> discuss

I agree wholeheartedly...but no one talks about this stuff much here
either.

-> There just isn't much to discuss about words, gestures, vestments
-> and props - particularly among people who recognize words, gestures,
-> vestments and props as arbitrary accoutrements, secondary or even
-> tertiary to real magick.

One more time (with feeling!): what about we who are beginners?  It may
be easy to forget when you are standing on the uppermost parapet gazing
into the deep celestial azure, but the mystical tower is made of BRICKS!
And to those of us laboring over the foundations of our own towers
proper bricklaying techniques are of paramount importance.

Enjoy the view.

M.
                                                                                                                               
----
SPACE BBS - Menlo Park, CA - 10 Lines - BoardWatch Top Ten BBS
415-323-4193 (v.32bis) - 4gB (50,000 files) + Wx, UPI News, etc.
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Keeping Silence
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:45:12 GMT

mike.mcaulay@spacebbs.com (Mike Mcaulay)  writes:


>One more time (with feeling!): what about we who are beginners?  It may
>be easy to forget when you are standing on the uppermost parapet gazing
>into the deep celestial azure, but the mystical tower is made of BRICKS!
>And to those of us laboring over the foundations of our own towers
>proper bricklaying techniques are of paramount importance.

I'll tell you a secret: the foundations of magic are not rituals, or anything 
like--the foundations of magic are good old-fashioned self knowledge.

BRAN'S FIVE PRINCIPLES FOR MAGICAL DEVELOPMENT

1. "Know thyself" and "To thine own self be true"
2. Take some time for complete quiet every day--meditate, reflect, etc., but
	don't do anything else for just a few minutes.
3. Trust your intuition, no matter what the book says.
4. Talk to sane people and read sane books.  (Sane means reasonably balanced,
	not powertripping or in delusion-ville.)
5. Don't take any of this stuff too seriously!

With those five principles, you can figure out what *your* path is and how *you*
need to lay the bricks of *your* tower.  Oh, checking in with the Great
Architect occasionally doesn't hurt, in my experience.  G is the only one who
has the complete blueprints for your tower, after all.

Enjoy the journey!
                      --Br'anArthur
                                      Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
"We are secretly replacing the fine quartz crystals this medicine pouch maker
usually uses with Folgers crystals.  Let's see what happens...."
                                      --DACCrowell
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake)
Subject: Re: Keeping Silence (was: testin' this stupid editor)
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 10:10:25 GMT

mike.mcaulay@spacebbs.com (Mike Mcaulay) writes:

>-> I think one reason that this isn't seen often on alt.magick is
>-> something called the '4th power of the Sphinx:' keeping silence.
>-> Another reason could be a mundane one (at least for me):  I don't
>-> really CARE if your evocation of the dread Dormammu, or whatever,
>-> succeeded or failed.  What I would be curious about are the
>-> *generalities*:  *how* was your ritual constructed?  What
>-> religo-mystico-philosophical system are you using? etc.
>
>Why care how a ritual was constructed if it fails?

Oh, I don't know; maybe because you like playing at magick rather than
actually getting your hands dirty and doing something for a change? <g>

>That's fine.  But some of us (I can't be the only one) would like to be
>able get practical questions answered by those with more experience.

Oh heaven forbid that someone would actually tell you something you
could actually USE?!

>somehow beneath the dignity of the group.  I say, "bunk."  Everyone
>begins in ignorance, and there is nothing dishonorable in seeking advice
>and assistance, nor in proferring same when asked to do so.

Wisdom!  Let us attend! <g>

I concur wholeheartedly.  Let's keep secrects to giggling teenaged girls, and
get some work done.




-- 
Love and Laughter,             | NOTE: Private mail must go explicitly
Xeper and Remanifest,          | to drake@seismo.soar.cs.cmu.edu
                       DRAKE   | or it'll bounce back to you...
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: kditto@nyx.cs.du.edu (Kimborly Ditto)
Subject: Re: abortifacents
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 04:44:27 GMT

In article <1irsl7INNria@uwm.edu> thig@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Terence P Higgin
) writes:
>Let me do make clear my objection to providing any substantive informati
n
>on the topic...Actually, I'm pro-choice and anti-big medicine. Pro-choic

>In my
>definition, however, requires the consent of the woman involved. Is
>there any way of actually knowing with any degree of certainty that this
man
>is telling the truth? Isn't there at least the possibility that he's not
>being honest and wants this information for some devious purpose? that's
my
>objection.
>


I believe the man, as the pregnant woman herself posted over on alt.pagan,
before this thread crept into alt.magick.

Blessings!
--Kim
From: fr_piap@hrnowl.lonestar.org (Arthur Rosene)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: invoking success
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 22:20:03 CST
Organization: Horned Owl BBS, Houston Texas.

to: TONYA@.LBL.BITNET
 
Yeah, of course some of us have..  I feel the same way about asking how 
many actually put theories to practice.  too often in some the purchase 
of a book is mistaken for the acquisition of its contents.  I don't know 
what else to tell you..  perhaps take a open-minded yet skeptikal 
approach to this and start putting together some things of your own and 
let me know what you think if it was a success for you or not..  also, it 
often takes time and patience.  

fr_piap,
93/93
From: Tagi@cup.portal.com (Thyagi Morgoth NagaSiva)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Berkeley O.T.O.
Date: Wed,  6 Jan 93 04:10:21 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

93!01.06 e.v.


Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
The word of Sin is Restriction.

      
Thomas Edward Conlon IV writes:

Frater Ion of the Monterrey Lodge/Camp (O.T.O.) has told me that 
there is a Lodge operating out of Berkeley, or somewhere thereabouts.  I 
am interested in petitioning for initiation, and he would sponsor me in 
my application.  Monterrey is a little too far to go except for big 
rituals.  Can you help me out?????  Thanks!


Response:

Sure.  Thelema Lodge is the oldest continuously operating OTO Lodge.
It was the home of the late Hymenaeus Alpha (Grady McMurtry), and
was at one time the only operating Lodge in the Order.  I've been to
many events there and find the folk in Berkeley challenging and
cordial - Thelemites to the core.  Seek out the Lodgemaster,
Jerry Cornelius, or Caitlyn (sorry, I don't know her last name).


According to the December issue of 'Thelema Lodge Newsletter',

Thelema Lodge: P.O. Box 2303, Berkeley, CA 94702 USA
Phone: (510) 658-3280

Location: Lodge and most events: 544 31st St., Oakland
          Gnostic Mass: 588 63rd St., Oakland

Call before attending anything.  They're undergoing a bit of restructure.

Gnostic Masses are held most every Sunday (7:00 pm ?)


If you want additional information, email me.  I'd be happy to serve.


Invoke me under my stars.  Love is the law, love under will.


I am I!


Frater (I) Nigris (666)
From: Leo_Sacher@kumear.apana.org.au (Leo Sacher)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Bi/Pan Sexuality and the New Aeon fr
Distribution: world
Date: 4 Jan 93 17:59:40 EST
Organization: The DUNGEON BBS

In a message dated Sat  3 Jan 93 19:37, Sfoley@uumeme.chi.il.us (sean M. Fo
wrote:

 SMF>   Do you WANT to be approved by some group or organization? I
 SMF> couldn't call
 SMF> one's sexual life a matter that should be "sanctioned" by any group.

No the purpose of my message was not to seek approval but was a genuine
query into any work done on sex magick as it relates to S/M. I'm asking if
anyone besides the IoT has members that use the pleasure/pain duality in
ritual.

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Leo_Sacher@kumear.apana.org.au - Mmmm that hurts so good!    :-)       |
|            The Dungeon, Newcastle NSW, Australia.                      |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Keeping Silence
Date: 6 Jan 93 10:47:06 EST
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics

Hello,

drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake) writes...

cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:

>>I think one reason that this isn't seen often on alt.magick is something
>>called the '4th power of the Sphinx:' keeping silence.  
>
>Kill the Sphinx.
>To know...to will...to dare...and TO SPEAK.

I think we may have different ideas of what the Sphinx is.

>>Another reason
>>could be a mundane one (at least for me):  I don't really CARE if your
>>evocation of the dread Dormammu, or whatever, succeeded or failed.  What
>>I would be curious about are the *generalities*:  *how* was your ritual
>>constructed?  What religo-mystico-philosophical system are you using? etc.
>
>And that, boys and girls, is the reason why most magic is in the sorry shape
>it's in today.  Cf: "I don't really CARE if your program RUNS.  What interests
>me are the *generalities*: what language did you write it in?  how many
>modules did you use?  what sorts of loops did you use?"

How is magic in sorry shape?  

Sorry, but I think this business is so subjective, that what works for
you has no guarantee that it will work for me.   Whether the 'program'
runs for you, then, if of no concern.  Maybe it doesn't truly strike a
chord in your 'subconscious' (whatever that means).  It may for me.
That's why the "generalities" interest me more than whether you
accurately divined the future, or achieved gnosis, in a specific case.

>>Some of us may happen to like the 'philosophical maundering' found on
>>alt.magick.  It's the reason I read it, not to hear about the success or
>>failure of someone's personal magical operations.
>
>Yes.  But when someone asks if it works or not, I'm *NOT* going to go
>running behind some 'fifth feather of the albatross' or try to redirect
>the conversation to what I *think* should work.

Look, if someone is looking to others for justification about their OWN
Great Work (or whatever you call it), then IMHO they are trodding down 
the wrong path to begin with.  

Again, "what I think should work" only applies to me.  Telling someone:
"The Star Ruby never worked for me, so it is worthless", or even "The
Star Ruby is great!  Try it today!!"  doesn't really give them any
useful information.

Steve Cranmer
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Looking for info on abortifacents
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 04:58:50 -0600

It is the use of herbal medicines which has lead to the development of the Fench
"abortion pill" whats-it-name... you know 486... which can't be imported into
this country due to the past political control of the federal government.  If
your problem is not urgent...well, maybe the new administration will have a
"loosing effect" on these imports.
From: slvq7@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: would like info.
Date: 4 Jan 93 14:09:11 MDT
Organization: Utah State University


I have always been interested in the art of magick and hold a place for wicca
in my heart.  Now that I am out of my parents home and able to practice as I
wish, I would like to gain any information about wiccans or other magick
practicers in Utah.  

I live in Logan, Utah but am willing to go far to learn the truths and
beauties.

If you have any information or know people I can contact to help me, please
tell me.