From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, curmudgeon and clueless old grouchy white boy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:29:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23569
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeon and clueless old grouchy white boy)
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <1992Aug27.123140.7299@nynexst.com> you write:
>In article <23537@alice.att.com> jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeon and clueless old white boy) writes:
>  Wow, what a town.  I guess there is no such thing as a monolithic
>  "white" group either.   This is a great topic for the soon-to-be
>  created soc.culture.white.american.
Well, I'll second the "...what a town" remark.  It's a wonderful
place to be gone from.  Now, as far as "white" groups being
monolithic, THAT is my point.  Thank you for acknowledging it.
As far as soc.culture.white.american, not a chance.  Someone
wanted to create such once, they were very much harassed both
on and off the net.  It is quite clear from prior history that
while it's ok to have a "foo only" group, foo can never
equal white.  Sorry, but that's the history.


>  Sounds like a real suspicious town, with people drawing lines
>  along all sorts of real and imaginary boundaries.
Well, like I said, the best way to deal with this town
is to be gone from it.

The boundaries aren't imaginary, though, I have no idea
what you mean by that, once these people make a catagory,
it's altogether too real.

>  How do you know that they accept the Asians, or do the Asian
>  professionals (aren't they Asian American?) have enough
>  money to buy into those areas?
Of course that's what happening.  To this kind of wannabee
elite (I don't mean the asians here necessarily) money is what
talks.  Money had how much of it you can control  In that sense,
the PROFESSIONAL asians rank high on the scale.

>  Money talks even if you
>  don't like someone, if you need to sell your house because
>  you lost your job, you don't care what color the money is.
Yep.  For somebody who seemed not to have a clue, you
seem to have a pretty good picture of all this.
It's not "have to sell your house", it's "can make money
from this rich person".  Greed seems to prevail here.
Perhaps all the better if you don't like them and you can
laugh to the bank...  Phoey.

>  But I'm curious to see if these AsAm professionals were
>  invited to the country clubs, or are heartily accepted to
>  intermarry with the offspring of the "ruling elite".
Well, they are certainly some of the real centers of the
country club set.  Dunno why, but they are.  They are
mostly not great golfers (that's what country clubs are
about in Trumbull County), but they seem positively popular
in the golfing set.  You figure, I'm not even going to guess.

Now, as for marrying, NEITHER group wants it, not the Asians
nor the whites.  This, maybe, makes the asians non-threatening.
The asians have formed a social group of asians that also
is club-like, and that extends fairly wide to have a "living"
population, and that's where their kids marry, for the most
part.  Of course, some (both male and female) have jumped this
arrangement, but they're pretty much hassled by both sides.

Wonderful, isn't it? (I hope the sarcasm is obvious.)

>   After
>  all, I doubt these professionals could trace their trust
>  funds back to the Mayflower.
Um, the "elite" in this area isn't the "ruling elite" we were
talking about a few days ago.  They're petty wannabes.  And
"petty" is VERY true.

>  Class can overcome race to
>  some extent.  But it doesn't mean that your whole race
>  is accepted.
Absoutely. That's the point, isn't it?  This town cares
more about class than race.

YES. THAT IS MY POINT!
>   Just the selected individuals.  Can anyone
>  see the difference here?
WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE POINT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO MAKE,
ANYHOW?  Class, in this case, has far overcome race.

>   How do you feel when people treat
>  you nicely because you speak English perfectly and then
>  ignore or harrass your mother who speaks English with an accent?
They did it all the time.  

"Your mommy is a mick, does she drink all day", "all those
german women are fat", and so on.

Standard fare...  Phoey.

>  I personally would feel awful, and have had it happen to me.
As have I.  You seem to be loosing the point again.

>  So yes, JJ, these professionals may be grudgingly accepted
>  because of their money and status, but it doesn't mean that
>  a family of Asian refugees would be accepted, especially in
>  that town of yours where no-one seems to be accepted.
THAT IS THE POINT.  Class overcomes race in some places. Such
places are nasty places, perhaps, but CAN YOU SEE MY POINT?
CLASS OVERCOMES RACE.  IN SOME PLACES. (Please, I'm quite
sure it's otherwise in some places, too!)

>   What an awful place to grow up.
Well, I hope you don't mind if I agree.

>>Racism or classism are NOT the right directions for any society!
>>If you want a model for how not to do it, move to my hometown.

>>Yes, I left. Big bloody surprise.

>  No thanks, I think I'd rather stay in the South Bronx than move
>  into your town?  By the way, it isn't in Yugoslavia by any chance,
>  is it?  :-)

Hee hee.  Your part of the South Bronx even LOOKS nicer.  Yes,
really.  You know where this area is, I think.  If you don't,
ask me and I'll tell you where not to move.  It IS in the USA, in 
Northeastern Ohio.  About 50 miles from Ashtabula.  This, it turns
out, is about the same distance as both Jim Pak's and
Andy Shaw's hometowns are from Ashtabula.

Any parallels are left to the reader.

Now, I don't think that Ashtabula in ITSELF is the center
of infection...  No, siree.  I think you have to go south from there
a ways.

But do it in an M1A1 Abrams. Please?
-- 
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american