HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wilson@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com (David Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: McDuffie suit: NASCAR/Glen
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:35:13 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Schlumberger CAD/CAM; Ann Arbor, Michigan (USA)

In article <1992Jul27.180125.11570@rdg.dec.com> winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:
>
>Anybody can file suit against anybody else over anything.  That doesn't mean
>that the court will accept the case, or if it is accepted, that judgement
>will be rendered in favor of the plaintiff.  If this case actually comes up
>for a preliminary hearing, you can expect the defendant's lawyers to move for
>immediate dismissal, citing the Regazzoni case and others as precedent.
>
>It's too bad that junk like this has to clutter up our court system.
>

While it is romantic to talk of how drivers knew the risks they were taking,
and how they're rolling over in their graves when their mercenary widows sue,
we should not forget reality as it exists in our legal system. (I'm speaking of
the US -- I only assume other countries have their own problems).

If I trip on my best friend's front walk, I may have NO CHOICE, under our legal
system, but to sue.  If I have injuries requiring expensive medical attention
and therapy, which I cannot easily "eat", how can I get the relevant insurance
company to pay?  The company providing his homeowner's policy may very likely
refuse to pay unless a court says they have to.  That is just the unpleasant
reality.  I may hate destroying a friendship, and may be the first to admit I
tripped through no ones fault but my own.  But, if I can't afford the medical
bills, or would have to destroy the savings that were supposed to send my kids
to college, what should I do??

This digression is merely to make the point that sometimes legal action is the
only way to get financial help.  The LAW frequently seems to have little connection
with what anyone would call RIGHT or WRONG.  Unless we really know all the details
of a situation, we ought to be cautious about assuming that Joe Loenard (sp?),
Mark Donohue's (sp?) widow, Clay Regazzoni, etc., are evil people just because they
brought lawsuits.  

The alarmist talk, in another post, about how a particular lawsuit could destroy
some form of racing, is just that.  In reality, the very rare case that is actually
upheld will only result in new and better wording of the waivers that drivers
sign, and that are implicit (or explicitly printed) on the spectator's tickets.
F1 didn't miss a beat on account of the Donohue case; Goodyear didn't alter their
racing program in any visible way; and NASCAR won't be much affected by a suit
over the Watkin's Glen incident either.

Dave Wilson
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: mjackson@cco.caltech.edu (Mark S. Jackson)
Subject: Re: A&E's Power and Glory broadcast
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:33:43 GMT

dobosz_m@wfooff.enet.dec.com (Mike Dobosz) writes:


>I've been enjoying (and taping) A&E's Power and Glory show for the past few 
>Wednesday nights.  Last night it wasn't on...does anyone have info on when 
>it will be on again?  
>							Mike

The August /Cable Guide/ says it will be on next week.  Of course, the
July /Cable Guide/ said it would be on this week. . .but the preempting
program (a special triplecast recapping Desert Storm) looked like a
one-shot.

Excellent show, so far. . .


-- 
Mark Jackson, Ph 1969
    "Is it possible to see this simple business as obscure and mysterious?
     We must try."
			- J. S. Bell
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1: Honda
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:45:03 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: regenmeister

From article <1992Jul27.142706.6781@stsci.edu>, by lallo@stsci.edu (Matthew D. Lallo,622,4577):
 
> Subj:  Honda                   
> 
> ...
> 
> A withdrawal now, I feel, would leave the Japanese (as well as McLaren Honda
> fans in general) felling cheated or "sold-out".  No one

The Williams team spent 3 years helping Honda develop an engine that 
started as an undrivable boat anchor into a world beater.  Then Honda
pulled the engine and sold/gave it to Lotus and McLaren.  Those of us
who were Team Willy fans felt thoroughly "sold-out".  But it made not a
bit of difference to Honda.  They got what they were after.

> stays on top forever, I think Ferrari is the quintessential example of that,
> but pulling out completely at the first sight of a raindrop seems
> unsportsmanlike and  cowardly.  I think the fans would much rather see their
> team struggling, trying to regain supremacy rather than simply quitting when
> the going got tough.  

McLaren will!
 
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: 881045m@dragon.acadiau.ca (Richard Muise)
Subject: Re: Whats Mario's excuse this time?
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 12:37:12 GMT

rbt@dracut.keps.kodak.com (Bob Tufts) writes:

>In article <Brp6G6.96H@apollo.hp.com> johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis) writes:
>> In my opinion Michael Andretti is currently a serious accident
>> looking for somewhere to happen.  The on-car camera coverage
>> shows that he has ample time to slow down and fall in behind
>> Rahal.  Instead he chooses to put his foot down and make a pass
>> in pit lane.  As a result of this decision he clearly puts his
>> wheels above the yellow line on the track - a contravention of
>> the regulations.  Unfortunately the CART officials choose not

>It's debatable whether he could of stopped in time or had another "slam
>into the rear wheels and get lauched" scenario. The speeds were drastically
>different and Andretti was already at a very high speed before Rahal jumped
>out into the lane (going only on his teams all clear signal). To me it was

I'd like to  think that i'm a fairly supportive race fan, who doesn't dislike
drivers, no matter what they do (esp. F1), but I'm starting to dislike Micheal
Andretti. He is a menace to the other drivers. Racing up the pits way too fast
has already caused a seriuous accident (Long Beach 91), where he kindey pi
punched Emmo. Fittapaldi. His car flew up and almost landed on Emmo.
Both cars were put out of the race. I assumed it was because of that accident
that there was a speed limit in the Indy pits this year. Also remember last
year when there was a corner yellow flag because there was a crash truck on the racing line? Both he and his father continued at race speed and hit the truck.
That could have easily killed a safety crew (a la Vancouver 90). When is someonegoing to put a stop to his dangerous driving? I like an aggressive driver,
but not if he continually puts other drivers in danger. I can only hope he can
mature and settle down to being the great driver he should be.

That's my 2 cents.
richard

-- 
 " Apple : Changing the world, one person at a time"
 " Friends : Don't let friends do DOS "
       881045m @ dragon.acadiau.ca
       881045m @ ace.acadiau.ca
From: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Richard Beckett)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: ABS on F1 cars?
Keywords: ABS, F1
Date: 31 Jul 92 12:33:57 GMT
Reply-To: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Labs, Bristol, UK


In article <eur.712569010@dutncp8>, eur@dutncp2.tn.tudelft.nl (Eur van
Andel) writes:
|> Dear race fans
|> 
|> Does anyone know why F1 cars (or C cars, or F3000) don't have ABS?


	Proberbly for two reasons :

	1.	An ABS system would increase the wieght of the car.

	2. 	The drivers would lose the "feel" of the brakes.

 

	Cheers,


		RIK


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rik O'Chet, Bristol, England.		
Email: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com		One's never alone with a Rubber Duckie.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bruno@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bruno Melli)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:44:19 GMT
Subject: Re: John Watson on German GP
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport

> John Barnard has been one of the most
> influential engineers in Formula One
> over the past decade.

A few questions about John Barnard:

What is John responsible for ?
Does he design the chassis ? The aerodynamics ?
Was he at McLaren when they were dominating ?

I understand that he is considered one of the best. However with all the
chassis problems McLaren is having this season it seems that he is
not infallible.

Who was the designer at Ferrari when they were challenging the McLarens ?

Thanks,

bruno.


Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bulls@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (debra.s.martis)
Subject: Re: NASCAR news (7/21)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 03:55:42 GMT

In article <tlm1.711771478@Ra.MsState.Edu> tlm1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Terry Matula) writes:



>Gotta run...I highly recommend MRN's NASCAR Live every Tuesday night at
>7pm eastern.  Tonight they five guests in one hour..Tommy Allison (Davey's
>cousin), Robert Yates, Bobby Hillin, Jeff Hammond, and Darrell Waltrip.


Does anyone have a listing of the stations that carrry MRN, especially
in the Chicago/Midwest area???  Thanks in advance.

                          -Jammer
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: tiedeman@ (Wolf-Dieter Tiedemann)
Subject: Re: More F1 Fodder
Organization: University of Passau, Germany
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 11:48:25 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.195506.12113@neptune.inf.ethz.ch> marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti) writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.151850.27142@ncube.com>, bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:
>|> Other thoughts are that Sauber will be there with both Winkelhock(sp?)
>|> and Schumacher as shoes.  If the car turns out to be successful, they'll
>|> insert the Mercedes nameplate in lieu of Sauber.
>
>A couple of comments on this one:
>1) There is a German driver named Joachim Winkelhock who had been driving
>   half a season for the Lotus F1 team a couple of years ago.  He is one
                          ^^^^^
			  sorry to correct you, but it has been
			  Team AGS. They gave him a ride just to cash
			  his tobacco dollars (Camel Germany) but never
			  provided an adequately prepared car.
			  The Lotus driver for a short time has been
			  Michael Bartels.

>   of the brothers of the late Manfred Winkelhock.  (Btw, your spelling
>   was correct ;-)  Joachim is currently driving in the German Touring Car
>   Championship for BMW, with one win in over 10 races.  However, he is
>   unlikely to drive for Sauber (or any other F1 team) in 1993.

    [remaining text deleted]

>-- 
>Robert Marti                    |  Phone:    +41 1 254 72 60

Wolf-Dieter Tiedemann                      tiedeman@acrux.fmi.uni-passau.de
University of Passau
POB 2540, D-8390 Passau, Germany
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: GR743@uacsc2.albany.edu (Greg Rickes)
Subject: Glory Days, and Not
Organization: University at Albany, Albany NY 12222
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 15:13:19 EDT

Several years ago ESPN started a series, hosted
by Dave Despain, called Glory Days, which was
a replay of films from seasons and series past,
such as USAC Dirt Champ cars at Langhorne, the
1967 Cougar TransAm season, Bahamas Speed Week, etc.
Whether you were there first time around, or this
was your first glimpse into racing's history
the show was a must see. Of course ESPN never
had it in a set time slot, so you had to hope
you remembered to set the VCR.
 
Now, alas, that glorious title has been debased
by ESPN, using the same name for a catch all
of short, outdated, racing clips. The last one
I taped, on Monday, turned out to feature Geoff
Bodine and Junior Johnson's Bud Ford Team, and
a bit on how wonderful the Canadian Porsche
Cup series was, full of market-speak on the
attributes of the 944Turbo. So how come the
series has been defunct for two years now ?
 
Glory Days ? NOT !
From: oberem@milton.u.washington.edu (Graham Oberem)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: James Hunt's comments on Senna/Mansell/Patrese at Hockenhein
Date: 29 Jul 92 01:11:22 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

I am not a James Hunt fan and I am certainly not a Senna fan, but I agree
with James Hunt on this occasion.  Mansell was extremely stupid to try
that move and it nearly cost him the race.

IMHO Mansell has clearly demonstrated this year that he can only win the
championship when he can be way out in front of the rest.  He is a very
good driver, but he lacks the brains to win the championship with inferior
or even equal equipment.  That has to be the reason he has not won the
chamionship before now.

I dislike Senna, but by all accounts he drove an excellent race Sunday.
His ability to force errors from both Mansell (not difficult) and Patrese
has to be to his credit.

It was good to see Brundle pull in another good placing (4th).  I sure
hope he gets another good drive in 1993.

Graham Oberem
Seattle
From: marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Miscellaneous Ramblings
Date: 24 Jul 92 06:55:12 GMT
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH

In article <1992Jul23.130028.25364@sis.uucp>, frans@sis.uucp (Frans Lichtenberg) writes:
|> "Scandia" is a swedish truck manufactor.

I thought the name of the Swedish truck manufacturer was Scania
(as in Scania Vabis).

As for Joachim Winkelhock having driven for Lotus (instead
of AGS), I have to conclude that I'm getting old.  Must have
been his Camel connection which led me to believe that.
Anyway, thanks for the correction.

As an aside, there are quite a few former F1 drivers who
compete in the German Touring Car Championship, some of
whom have been reasonably successful in F1:

Keke Rosberg  (F1 champ 1982)
Jacques Lafitte  (several GP wins)
Hans Stuck *)  (one pole in F1, with 3rd his best finish, I believe)
Johnny Cecotto  (also a 500cc motorcycle champ)
Bernd Schneider
Joachim Winkelhock

*) Stuck is not driving in this years championship anymore
   since Audi have withdrawn from the series as a result of
   having their engines declared illegal after a protest by
   BMW team manager Marc Surer.

-- 
Robert Marti                    |  Phone:    +41 1 254 72 60
Informationssysteme             |  FAX:      +41 1 262 39 73
ETH-Zentrum                     |  E-Mail:   marti@inf.ethz.ch
CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland     |
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: My error on F1 -- sorry
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:51:34 GMT

I made a major blunder this morning in mentioning M. Winkelhock
as a Sauber driver.  I was reminded that he passed away a few
years back.  I'm sorry for the error.

My brain cells wanted to say Wendlinger (sp?)

-cb-

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Indy Toronto Quotes
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:26:29 GMT

Regarding the start:

According to Rahal, "Emerson jumped the start.  I was kind of
ticked off.  The pole sitter is supposed to lead to the start/
finish line.  In any event it was a wild first lap!  Emerson went
low, I went high.  Emerson missed a shift coming off the back straight
and I was able to get beside him at the hairpin."

And MiAndretti:  "Emerson missed a shift and everybody had to get out of
the throttle, but I had a lot of momentum carrying me there and Bobby
got by.  Bobby went to the inside and lost his line and I passed him on
the outside."

On the pit incident between Rahal/Andretti:

Andretti, who pitted closer to pit entrance, was accelerating leaving
the pits and moving before Rahal, who was pitted closer to the pit exit.
As Rahal started to leave his spot he narrowly missed Christian Danner
who pitted in the next slot ahead of his.  Rahal went to his left in
front of Andretti who saw visions of his exit crash at Long Beach a
couple of seasons ago.  Andretti explained, "I saw I still had room to
my left so I kept my foot in it because it wouldn't have done me any
good to lock them up at that point.  The thing I was worried about was
keeping two wheels over the (blend line at the pit exit) line."  And
suffer a stop and go penalty.  Both drivers agreed it looked a lot
closer to the fans than each other.

---
The above is taken from National Speed Sport News.  I tend to wait for
the driver's observations and comments about such incidences rather than
getting into heated debates (going nowhere) from my armchair seat.  I
don't race, so don't feel any way qualified to comment when the
circumstances are debateable.

-c'ball-

From: boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 00:20:48 GMT
Subject: Re: Jumping Starts, was Re: Whats Mario's excuse this time?
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport

This talk about Michael being at fault for the pit lane non-incident is
a load of crap.  Michael has his foot down when Rahal pulls out right in
front of him.  Michaels options: evasive or lock em up.  The later choice
is a hell of a lot more dangerous because Michael will lose control over
the car.

If anyone is at fault its Rahal's team.  Who the hell sends a driver
out right in front of a charging car unless they want to create an
incident?  This was a cheap attempt to grab the lead.  It could have
had serious consequences had Michael crashed into the pit area where 
everyone is standing around near large supplies of fuel.

As an SCCA flagger over the last 9 years I've seen a lot of aggressive
moves.  In this case, it is my opinion that Rahal was too agressive.
Those of you who enjoy bashing anyone named Andretti regardless of the
situation are as bad as those who praise Senna no matter his antics.

Mario, on the other hand, is a different story.  Too many incidents
to simply ignore.  Mario may have lost it.


************************************************
* Donald Boell - Hewlett Packard               *
*                                              *
* When you're chewing on life's gristle        *
* Don't grumble, give a whistle - Monty Python *
*                                 Life of Brian*
************************************************


Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: rs3596@sarah.albany.edu (Robert B. Scott)
Subject: Re: DieHard 500
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 16:46:58 GMT

>Besides this gross miskate,  They refer to the race the Ernie Irvan won
>on Saturday as everything but the Busch series race.  It was called the
>Late Model Sportsman races numerous times.  The series hasn't been called
>that in nearly ten years.  I think I would be a little bent out of shape
>if I were the Busch people.  I believe this was most Ken Squire's(SP?)
>error.  I could do with him in the boardcast booth.


How many time did CBS refer to Bobby Hillin, Jr. as Davey Allison.  Granted it is DA car but Bobby was the one driving it.

Way to go Bobby.  I hope Davey said thank you for the points lead


Rob...


-- 
  Robert B Scott                 RS3596@sarah.albany.edu       **   *****      
   RD 1 Box 25                                                **   **   **     
   West Coxsackie, NY 12192       University at Albany       **   ** *** **    
   (518) 459-6988,731-9409                                  *******       **
From: bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: John Watson on German GP
Date: 29 Jul 92 11:00:57 GMT
Organization: School of Biological Sciences, University of Bath, UK

In article <122490023@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> bruno@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bruno Melli) writes:
>> John Barnard has been one of the most
>> influential engineers in Formula One
>> over the past decade.
>
>A few questions about John Barnard:

This is off the top of my head ... 

F1 cars don't get designed from start to finish by one person
anymore, certainly not in a team the size of McLaren or Ferrari
Indeed , Ferraris sometimes seem to be designed by most of Italy :-).

>What is John responsible for ?
>Does he design the chassis ? The aerodynamics ?

I think he's the man who has the vision of the final car, who
then delegates to other people who do the detailed design.

>Was he at McLaren when they were dominating ?

Yes. Barnard had designed a F5000 car in the mid seventies (for
Penske?). He designed the original carbon fibre McLaren MP4, with help
from a Californian aerospace composites company (Hercules I think)
Steve Nichol is an American who left Hercules to work with Barnard.
Barnard stayed at McLaren until about 1988.

>Who was the designer at Ferrari when they were challenging the McLarens ?

John Barnard.  When he started to work for them, he insisted on working in
Britain.  Ferrari agreed and started the GTO engineering and design centre
in Guildford.  After he left, it was sold to McLaren for the manufacture
of their F1 road car.  Barnard worked on the development of the 639 and
the semi-automatic gearbox. Harvey Postlethwaite and the aerodynamicist 
Francois Migeot were both based at Maranello where they did development
for the last turbo car.  After a while they both went to Tyrrell where 
they designed the 019 with the anhedral front wing.

When Barnard left, he did some consultancy work and then joined 
TOM'S Toyota at Hingham. They built the TS010 SWC car, and the 
031F F3 car.  Apparently there was also some work on a F1 car.

Now he's rumoured to have signed for Ferrari again.  Presumably this
means they'll have to buy another factory in the UK for him to work in.

			Andrew  Henry
Sempre  Gilles                                  bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: naze@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Daniel J Naze)
Subject: Laguna Seca IMSA on TV?
Originator: naze@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 04:11:37 GMT

  Is anyone aware if the Laguna Camel GT event was or is going to be
Broadcast?  Apparently, NBC was covering it but I never saw any listings
stating that.

Dan Naze


Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis)
Subject: Re: F1 Pick6: standings after German GP (spoilers)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:16:55 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <92211.011656A735FJO@HASARA11.BITNET> <A735FJO@HASARA11.BITNET> writes:
>In article <1992Jul27.182447.12457@rdg.dec.com>, winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com
>(Paul S. Winalski) says:
>>In the following chart, an asterisk next to a player's name means that the
>>player has submitted a pick that the administrators have flagged as being
>>late.
>>These picks will be reviewed at the end of the Pick6 season.
> 
>Are the Pick6 adminstrators (who cannot be praised enough) also
>keeping count of how many times players are late?
>I, for example, have also been flagged, but I was late
>only on the very first occasion, because I did not know in
>time who was going to be the pick6 adminstrator.  (Sometimes
>the newsfeed from the US to Amsterdam is some days behind.)

We keep complete records, so we not only know how many times
you have been late, we know which races you were late for.
Rest assured that we are aware of the problems at the start
of the season caused by the uncertainty as to exactly who was
running the Pick6 competition.
-- 
John Francis                                johnf@apollo.hp.com
The world can be divided into two classes :-
 those who divide people into two classes, and those who don't.