HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davet@loowit.wr.tek.com (Dave Tharp CDS)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.racing
Subject: Re: Why race a BMW?
Date: 9 Oct 92 20:42:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix - Colorado Data Systems, Englewood, CO

In article <51315@seismo.CSS.GOV> tiberio@seismo.CSS.GOV (Michael Tiberio) writes:
>
   ( Astute comments on racing BMW's deleted ).

>If you want to race something cheap and not have to deal with this stuff, 
>why not race a Guzzi, they are underpriced in the used bike market, and
>make very reliable race mounts.
>
   Because in stock form, they're much slower than a BMW.  They cost
just as much to modify.  Guzzi parts and specialty stuff is concentrated
in a few large metro areas, where equivalent BMW stuff can be had almost
anyplace.

>
>mtiberio@bbn.com
  Hey, you're standing 8th in AMA Supertwins, according to November AMA
mag!  Good Show!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Dave Tharp                      | DoD #0751   | "You can't wear out       |
| davet@loowit.WR.TEK.COM         | MRA #151    |   an Indian Scout,        |
| '88 K75S  '48 Indian Chief      | AHRMA #751  |  Or its brother the Chief.|
| '75 R90S(#151) '68 CB450(#751)  | AMA #524737 |  They're built like rocks |
| '65 R50/2/Velorex  '57 NSU Max  |             |   to take the knocks,     |
|       1938 BMW R12              | (Compulsive | It's the Harleys that     |
| My employer has no idea.        |   Joiner)   |   give you grief."        |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.racing
From: tbb@sumac02.cray.com (Todd Blachowiak)
Subject: Re: FZR400
Originator: tbb@sumac02
Keywords: hints
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 12 Oct 92 18:18:43 CDT


In article  essbaum@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Alexander Essbaum) writes:
> In article  tbb@sumac02.cray.com (Todd Blachowiak) writes:
>|> 
>|>I have sold my GS500 for $1800 and will be getting an FZR400 for $2000. Not a
>|> bad upgrade. Any final things I should check out on the FZR400 before I make
> 
> not bad at all!  $1800 for your GS?!?  wow.

 Yeah, It is quite a good price I got. Fortunately with the CRA's class 
 structure, you need a GS to win in the ultralight classes. Puts the bike in 
 high demand.

 Other prices I have seen for GS's are $2200 and $2000 for modified versions.
 Mine was basically all stock.

 The part that amazes me is the price I am getting the FZR for. Only $2000 and
 it appears to be in great shape, plus many spares, and a paint job of my
 choice for the cost of paint. The seller needs money bad to pay his dentist
 bills which came to $1985. So he comes out $15 ahead:-) Bummer.

 How is the FZR750 rebuild going? Come to think of it I do need a 600 and 750
 to complete the collection.

-- 
Take care,

Todd Blachowiak 
KotD #0004
From: tiberio@seismo.CSS.GOV (Michael Tiberio)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.racing
Subject: Re: Why race a BMW?
Date: 12 Oct 92 13:05:06 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <10742@wrgate.wr.tek.com>, davet@loowit.wr.tek.com (Dave Tharp CDS) writes:
> In article <51315@seismo.CSS.GOV> tiberio@seismo.CSS.GOV (Michael Tiberio) writes:
> >If you want to race something cheap and not have to deal with this stuff, 
> >why not race a Guzzi, they are underpriced in the used bike market, and
> >make very reliable race mounts.
>    Because in stock form, they're much slower than a BMW.  They cost
                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^ FLAME BAIT
> just as much to modify.  Guzzi parts and specialty stuff is concentrated
> in a few large metro areas, where equivalent BMW stuff can be had almost
> anyplace.

I have never seen a BMW that is faster than a Moto Guzzi period. I would
run any Guzzi, even the touring models against even the "R90S" any day.
Guzzis have for years been recognized by the press as having good power,
one quote I remember is "Like a BMW on Steroids". And did you see the 
recent test in Motorcyclest with Nich The Natch (Ientasch) and others
riding A Guzzi Lemans, Injected Paso and one other sport touring bike.
Nick says and I quote, "This Grandpa can really move."

I used to have an 850 Eldorado with tiny little 29mm square (flat)
slide carbs (1972 model) and it would routinely flaten 750 hondas of
that era. All the BMWs I have ever ridden have been anemic CV carb
powered lawn mowers that sounded like they were going to blow up if
reved past 6000 rpm.

As far as the race bits stuff goes, Guzzi race stuff is more available,
and who cares if its not available at your local bike boneyard, ever
hear of UPS!  I routinely race against guys on BMW's and they have a
much smaller selection of race stuff available especially short notice.
This past weekend I was talking with a BMW dealer who also races
vintage on one and he says the cost of a special ring and pinion for a
BMW is $700, cost for a Guzzi $250. I have 6 rear end ratios available,
BMW has 2 or 3. Close ratio transmission for a BMW, pray to Munich and
suck the Furhers dick. For a Guzzi its a catalogue item for about
$1000.  Could have you one in 2 days.  Hot Cams, pistons, and anything
else you could want is available from Raceco in Brooklyn and he has it
in stock and is fast. He is a master at head work, etc. BMW's well you
can send your heads to some "artist" out in california who might sit on
your heads for 2 to 6 months, maybe a year ot 2 depending on how they
feel.

I'm not saying that BMW's can't be made to run, but they will take more
money to get them running than a Guzzi. I occasionally got beat on the Pro
Circuit by a guy from california by the name of Eron Flory. He had a fast 
Bemmer. Never met another that could run with me.


mtiberio
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.racing
From: jjb@dtc.hp.com (Jim Brewer)
Subject: Re: FZR400
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 22:03:01 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: HP Design Technology Center, Santa Clara, CA
Keywords: hints

In article <1992Oct12.125258.12124@hemlock.cray.com> tbb@sumac02.cray.com (Todd Blachowiak) writes:
>I have sold my GS500 for $1800 and will be getting an FZR400 for $2000. Not a 
>bad upgrade. 

 No shit.  Congradulations.

>Any final things I should check out on the FZR400 before I make
>the final purchase decision? It was a race bike and has some crashes on it.

  I'd check out the frame .. like near the steering head .. for kinks or
waves in the aluminum indicating bending.  Also look over the mid fairing 
to frame mount points for stress as well as the footpeg mounting locations.
The frame is difficult, if not impossible to fix and expensive to replace.
Ask me how I know.

  $2K is a good price if the bike is reasonably whole.
From: tbb@sumac02.cray.com (Todd Blachowiak)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.racing
Subject: Re: How do you brake for turn?
Date: 15 Oct 92 16:43:19 GMT
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Originator: tbb@sumac02


In article barr@tramp.Colorado.EDU (BARR DOUG) writes:
> There seems to be several possible techniques for braking
> 1. Brake before downshifting (holding clutch in)
> 2. Brake after downshifting (using engine to slow one down first)
> 3. Brake while downshifting letting clutch out between gears
> 4. Brake while downshifting holding clutch in
> Have I left any out?
> Is one technique better than the other for racing? Are they all used
> depending on the situation? Which technique would be used for a 1st
> gear corner after a 100mph straight?

 Going into turn 3 at BIR(top speed on my GS500 down to third gear) I have
 to drop down three gears. I brake hard for the first half then brake
 moderately while trying to set-up my entrance speed and changing gears 
 using method #3. The three gear changes happen within 2 seconds easy.

 
-- 
Take care,

Todd Blachowiak 
KotD #0004
From: davet@loowit.wr.tek.com (Dave Tharp CDS)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.racing
Subject: Re: Why race a BMW?
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:21:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: wrgate.10754
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix - Colorado Data Systems, Englewood, CO

In article <51317@seismo.CSS.GOV> tiberio@seismo.CSS.GOV (Michael Tiberio) writes:

   ( bunch of Guzzi-BMW go-fast baloney deleted, much of it mine )

   OK 
   This is a forum about racing, and I think that we can solve this
argument.  Lets get a Guzzi and a BMW in equivalent states of tune, and
try it out.
   This is not original with me, but:
   "When the green flag drops, the bullshit stops."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Dave Tharp                      | DoD #0751   | "You can't wear out       |
| davet@loowit.WR.TEK.COM         | MRA #151    |   an Indian Scout,        |
| '88 K75S  '48 Indian Chief      | AHRMA #751  |  Or its brother the Chief.|
| '75 R90S(#151) '68 CB450(#751)  | AMA #524737 |  They're built like rocks |
| '65 R50/2/Velorex  '57 NSU Max  |             |   to take the knocks,     |
|       1938 BMW R12              | (Compulsive | It's the Harleys that     |
| My employer has no idea.        |   Joiner)   |   give you grief."        |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.racing
Subject: Someone have AMA results???
From: taylor_c@qis.dofasco.ca
Date: 13 Oct 92 07:15:33 GMT
Organization: Dofasco Inc, Hamilton, Ont. Can.
Nntp-Posting-User: taylor_c



	REAL AMA results from Texas......F please!!!!!!!!!
From: bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us (bob pasker)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.racing
Subject: Re: Why NOT race a BMW against a GUZZI?
Date: 12 Oct 92 15:53:55 PDT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Disorganized Organization

In article <51320@seismo.CSS.GOV>, tiberio@seismo.CSS.GOV (Michael Tiberio) writes:
> In article <10754@wrgate.wr.tek.com>, davet@loowit.wr.tek.com (Dave Tharp CDS) writes:
>>    This is a forum about racing, and I think that we can solve this
>> argument.  Lets get a Guzzi and a BMW in equivalent states of tune, and
>> try it out.

i think this is a brillian idea.  the r90s against the guzzi.

>Great, will I have to come out to steamboat (I assume you are not an
>east coaster) or what? What will we race, my street bike against yours
>or my race bike against yours? 8-) Seriously, I doubt we could get 2
>bikes in similar states of tune to a track to answer this challenge,
>but it is a nice thought!

how about "best state of tune" under the circumstances?

-- 
-- bob pasker
-- bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us 
--
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.racing
From: sproksch@cc.curtin.edu.au
Subject: Re: FZR400
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 04:59:11 GMT

Hello Todd,

when you are buying a bike that has been raced AND had a few crashes the
first thing you should do is to check the frame if it is still straight,
has no cracks in the joints, etc..

Then you should check the engine, by simply listening for any noises
that should not be there, like a knocking noise on the head-cover.
I usually use a metalrod and hold one end against my ear and the other
end to the engine part I want to check out. This is ofcourse only possible
if you have access to all that because of the fairing, but a racing bike 
should have quick-release fairing anyway.

I hope that I could be of some help to you.

Gordon.

|Finaly got my Ducati|
|(a lot of fun....)  |
From: rct@fulcrum.co.uk (Richard Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.racing
Subject: Re: How do you brake for turn?
Date: 15 Oct 92 07:39:56 GMT
Organization: Fulcrum Communications

In article <1992Oct14.215426.23235@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> barr@tramp.Colorado.EDU (BARR DOUG) writes:
>There seems to be several possible techniques for braking
>1. Brake before downshifting (holding clutch in)
>2. Brake after downshifting (using engine to slow one down first)
>3. Brake while downshifting letting clutch out between gears
>4. Brake while downshifting holding clutch in
>Have I left any out?
>Is one technique better than the other for racing? Are they all used
>depending on the situation? Which technique would be used for a 1st
>gear corner after a 100mph straight?

I would have thought the best racers wouldn't waste time going in and out of
gear (2 and 3). This is the way people ride on the road, when they have plenty
of time, and want to slow down gradually. 1 and 4 seem to be the same, it's
just 4 gets the gear changing out of the way at the same time. I vote for 4.
============================================================================
Richard Taylor                 DoD #981                  (rct@fulcrum.co.uk)
"Would you trust a company who have their bits reversed ?".
============================================================================
Fulcrum Communications Ltd., Fordrough Lane, Birmingham, B9 5LD, ENGLAND.
From: james@Bridge.COM (James Montebello)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.racing
Subject: Re: How do you brake for turn?
Date: 15 Oct 92 16:44:50 GMT
Organization: Bridge Information Systems

In article <1992Oct14.215426.23235@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> barr@tramp.Colorado.EDU (BARR DOUG) writes:
>There seems to be several possible techniques for braking
>1. Brake before downshifting (holding clutch in)
>2. Brake after downshifting (using engine to slow one down first)
>3. Brake while downshifting letting clutch out between gears
>4. Brake while downshifting holding clutch in
>Have I left any out?
>Is one technique better than the other for racing? Are they all used
>depending on the situation? Which technique would be used for a 1st
>gear corner after a 100mph straight?

Option 2 is bad. It's hard on the engine and you're braking the wrong
wheel. Use the brakes to slow the bike, that's what they're there for.

I personally use Option 3, but 4 could also be used. It's a matter of
preference. Option 1 forces you to hurry the downshifts and doesn't
allow you the option of braking into the turn. 

The sequence for me has been: start braking. downshift as the speed
drops (generally in the 1st half of the braking) then either finish up
braking, let off and flick it in or slowing "unsqueeze" the brakes  as
I "bend" it in. It depends on the bike, the turn in question, and my
mood.
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
james montebello (james@bridge.com)         'my employer has no opinions'		
Experience: a comb life gives you after you lose your hair.
	- Judith Stern
From: tiberio@seismo.CSS.GOV (Michael Tiberio)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.racing
Subject: Re: Why race a BMW?
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:45:30 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <10754@wrgate.wr.tek.com>, davet@loowit.wr.tek.com (Dave Tharp CDS) writes:
>    This is a forum about racing, and I think that we can solve this
> argument.  Lets get a Guzzi and a BMW in equivalent states of tune, and
> try it out.

Great, will I have to come out to steamboat (I assume you are not an east coaster)
or what? What will we race, my street bike against yours or my race bike against
yours? 8-) Seriously, I doubt we could get 2 bikes in similar states of tune
to a track to answer this challenge, but it is a nice thought! 

t
From: jerry@stratford.dab.ge.com (Jerry Szulinski)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.racing
Subject: Re: 750 SSport series and used leathers
Date: 9 Oct 92 12:47:03 GMT
Organization: GE Simulation & Control Systems. Daytona Beach, FL

Prime network showed the Mid-Ohio SuperSport races last week where Russel
clinched the title. The commentator tried to squeeze more excitement out 
of Russel than he had, so finally to get him off his back Russel said that
he was glad to win his third (yawn) championship in a row especially since
this was probably the last time they were going to run it. It seemed like 
he meant they (AMA I guess) were going to drop the 750 supersquid :-) from 
the program (he might had meant _he_ was not going to ride it anymore though).
Anyway, I haven't read or heard anything about it (despite reading Cycle News
on regular basis - they are pretty thorough), so I thought maybe you guys 
have any clues as to what's going on. They already decided, as far as I know,
to drop twins; if they get rid of SSport, all that's left will be SBike, 883's
250's, I'd think 600 SSport would stay (factories like it) and the EBC 3-hour
(did I leave anything out?). I guess it's not such a bad program, although
I'd like to see the exotic twins if the races were not such run aways.

Also, if anybody has used race leathers they'd like to sell, please let me
know. A friend of mine is looking for a set (5'7", 170lb). 

Jerry S.

P.S. Let me know if you're coming to Daytona for CCS races next week, maybe
     I'll stop by your pit.
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.racing
From: nrmendel@unix.amherst.edu (NATHANIEL ROBERT MENDELL)
Subject: Racing Schools - any advice?
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 17:48:33 GMT


Does anyone have any experience with racing schools?  I'm looking to get a
license which will be accepted by as many organizations as possible, starting
with WERA.  I'm in the Northeast/Buffalo area.

Nathaniel
zx1
-- 
// Tim Pierce
// News Administrator
// Amherst College, Amherst MA, USA
// news@unix.amherst.edu, twpierce@unix.amherst.edu
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.racing
From: garrett@math.rice.edu (David Garrett)
Subject: Re: racing mods for street bike?
Organization: Dept. of Mathematics, Rice University
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 19:23:53 GMT


Shin, 

	About your Honda...I have an '81, so I have to compliment you on your 
taste in bikes:-). Mine has been somewhat modified by the previous owner, a 
close friend of many years who used to race and wrench down here in Texas. 
I have a set of O'Neal superbike bars as well; the stock ones really do look 
like shit and make it hard to ride fast.

	The engine has a big-bore kit, bumping it up from 750 to 836cc. The 
carbs are off a 900 and have been modified with a few HRC parts inside them. 
THe airbox has been removed and K&N filters were installed. A Kerker 4-into-1 
exhausts the spent gases, and sounds great besides saving weight and adding 
power (although it may be too loud for some people's tastes, but I like it). 
The transmission has been shimmed and all the gears undercut, pretty much 
eliminating the notorious Honda gearbox notchiness. A  Lockhart oil cooler 
was added to the front frame downtubes.

	The right-side mirror and all turn signals have been removed, and the 
stock seat replaced with a Corbin Gunfighter.

	The stock 750F puts out right at 70 bhp. I estimate that the mods 
done to my bike are good for at least 10-15 more bhp, possibly more, but it's
never been dynoed, so I can't really be sure. This is somewhat down 
on what Freddie Spencer's CB750F Superbike put out in its heyday, but that 
would cost significantly more and you probably wouldn't be able to ride it 
daily:-).

	I ride my bike every day, and it is far improved and faster than the 
stock model without sacrificing reliability. Due to the big carbs, you can't 
just whack open the throttle at low rpms or it will bog slightly, but it 
idles just fine and pulls damn hard from 7-9K. I think that I wouldn't 
want to go too much further than these mods if you're going to ride it daily. 

	I have a short article from one of the bike magazines in the early 
'80s describing Spencer's Superbike and what mods were made from the street 
750F that I'd be happy to send you a copy of if you like.

Dave Garrett
Department of Mathematics, Rice University, Houston, TX
garrett@math.rice.edu
From: sturges@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Richard Sturges)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.racing
Subject: Re: EX500 Remote Starter
Date: 14 Oct 92 13:33:55 GMT
Reply-To: sturges@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Richard Sturges)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD




My EX500 has both the starter and the alternator removed.  For external
starting, I would suggest a set of rollersas the will work with all your bikes.

We have never had any problems push staarting, although my pit crew
might have
a different attitude about that.

Rich
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.racing
From: barr@tramp.Colorado.EDU (BARR DOUG)
Subject: How do you brake for turn?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 21:54:26 GMT

There seems to be several possible techniques for braking
1. Brake before downshifting (holding clutch in)
2. Brake after downshifting (using engine to slow one down first)
3. Brake while downshifting letting clutch out between gears
4. Brake while downshifting holding clutch in
Have I left any out?
Is one technique better than the other for racing? Are they all used
depending on the situation? Which technique would be used for a 1st
gear corner after a 100mph straight?

Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.racing,rec.motorcycles.dirt
From: couyant@convex.com (George Couyant)
Subject: Re: Scott boots
Organization: CONVEX Computer Pty Limited, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 07:29:32 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In Article <1992Oct12.053338.392@javelin.sim.es.com>, blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com (Dances With Bikers) writes:

>

	[....trials and tribulations of plastic boots deleted....]

	Well, this fella here has had a number of different boots
	including a pair of Vendramini (sp??) plastic fantastics. I agree
	with all the protective qualities of plastic boots and sympathise
	with you on the lack of feel they give. The best thing you can do
	is to lift the gear lever a spline or two to overcome all those
	false neutrals you end up with 'cause you can't shift properly...
	Oh yea, I never got the knack of using the rear brake without
	locking it all the time...

	On the down side, because they are so restrictive in the ankle
	sideways movement etc., they really give your knees a hard time.
	After 3 years of these boots, I suffered heaps of niggling knee
	injuries because the foot impact was simply tranferred higher up
	the leg. BUT, I never suffered any foot bruising or such in the
	entire time (and boy, did I hit some major rocks with them...)

	Just to cap this note off, I went and bought a pair of $350 Alpine
	Stars PX9?? leather boots after the plastic ones. Boy what a
	difference in feel...and they smell a lot better too... Only problem 
	was that on the first ride with them, I suffered a glancing blow 
	from some out of control idiot (my brother...) coming the other way 
	around a blind corner and broke my big toe (major pain for a couple 
	of years..). I often wondered if the plastic boots would have saved 
	me.....Hell, I'm not going to repeat the exercise to find out am I?

	If I could find a decent pair of plastic boots again though, I
	think I'd buy them. Hosing them down and hitting them with a bit
	of Armour-All sure beats the pain of keeping leather boots clean.

	Cheers
	George C.

--
  ,--_|\ 	George Couyant			email couyant@convex.com
 /      \ 	Senior Systems Engineer		Ph    61 3 823-6216
 \_/--\*/	Convex Computer Pty Limited	Fax   61 3 823-6254
       ' 	
86 TT600,90 KX500,88 KX250,85 CR250,86 CR500, oh yea, and the kids 92 PW50.

Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.racing