HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fy@lucid.com (Frank Yellin)
Subject: Re: Feld Brothers
Organization: Lucid, Inc., Menlo Park, CA
	<1992Dec23.203231.4038@netcom.com>
	<1992Dec23.214234.11256@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
Date: 24 Dec 92 10:48:45



In article <1992Dec23.214234.11256@cbfsb.cb.att.com> hem@col400.att.com (Hillel E. Markowitz) writes:

>  To answer the question why didn't they translate the rest of the
>  card a poster answered:
>
>  that the card said "MOSAD MACCABEE" which is the name of the
>  sports group.  They asked a local person what "Mosad" was and got
>  told Israeli Secret Service.  They then asked what "Macabee" was
>  and got told "A group of Jewish warriors whose victory is being
>  celebrated now".  They immediately thought of a secret service
>  hit squad cult of Jewish warriors.

You don't really believe this, do you?  This has all the makings of a
totally unsubstantiated rumor.  

Palo Alto, because of its proximity to a major university, has a very large
concentration of native Israelis.  I'm sure the police have an accurate
translation of the business card.  

And based on what I've read so far, (knives, ski masks, plans to the
house), the police certainly have probably cause to believe these guys were
going to commit a crime.
From: talmy@randvax.rand.org (Shel Talmy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish Rock/Pop Stars
Date: 3 Jan 93 17:41:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: randvax.4135
Organization: RAND Corp., Santa Monica, Ca.


Well, let's see---there's Bob Dylan, Herb Alpert, I think Springstein, and

don't forget Sammy Davis Jr.!



Additionally, many record producers, label execs, managers and most of the

music biz lawyers are Jewish.



that all adds up to a lot of traffic in the soon-to-be-formed newsgroup:



rec.music.jewish-people!!!
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Name of Palestinian Deportees (part i)
Date: 4 Jan 93 01:02:52 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <isaac.726061332@etrog> isaac@etrog.se.citri.edu.au (Dr Isaac Balbin) writes:
>
>They are a living testimony  of all that is profane.

So, you would say that the Israelis of old, who murdered hashem to
protect their land, were committing a sacrilege?

You are right, however.  The strong believers are definitely standing
up to the Israeli government, whose evil deeds, corruption, and 
blasphemy are clear only to those who haven't been blinded.

Anisa

	"Open your heart - showing the anger and pain
	 - so you heal."  [Shaking the Tree]

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: ACLU/AJC Menorah Police?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 21:17:21 GMT


Herman Rubin says "they COULD have state-sponsored religious services".

They do, Herman, they do. Have you never heard of the invocation that
opens Congressional sessions, or other State functions. The thing
that makes them unobjectionable to some is that they are usually
non-sectarian (though it's hard for Catholic clergy to avoid
mentioning 'the son and the holy ghost', and they usually rotate
among different denominations.

There's an important distinction here, for the purposes of any
discussion we might have, between non-sectarian and non-religious.
This country was founded with a belief in God. It's even on the money.
The constitution doesn't prohibit state activities with respect to
religion, but with respect to "the establishment" i.e. a particular
religion. Athiests have to comfort themselves with the free speech
provisions of the Constitution; they are not considered a party at
interest with equal status on the subject of religion. Putting it
another way, athiests don't have equal standing as just another
religion that believes in no religion.

Thus we must distinguish between those who argue against a State
position with respect to a particular religion, and a State
position with respect to religion itself.

At least that's the way I think it is until we take "In God We
Trust" off the money.

Believers in God, unite! You have nothing to lose but your secular
humanists.


David
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ring@inf.fu-berlin.de (Rod J. Ring)
Subject: Re: A self-confessed silly thread: Jewish Rock
Organization: Free University of Berlin, Germany, Computer Science
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 10:15:40 GMT


How about these guys, they're not American, but they're Jewish, and
they're great artists:

Yehuda Poliker (he is really *phantastic*)
Gidi Gov
Shalom Chanoch
Arik Einstein
Yehudit Tamir
David Broza
etc.
etc.

:-)

Rod.

-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Rod J. Ring				If you can take it to water,
Institut fuer Informatik		and force it to drink,
Freie Universitaet Berlin, FRG		it isn't a horse.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jclander@symphony.mitre.org (Julian C. Lander)
Subject: Latkes (was Re: Ascii Chanukah symbols?)
Reply-To: jclander@symphony.mitre.org (Julian C. Lander)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, Va
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 13:57:47 GMT

In article <cF4kwB4w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>, waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker) writes:
|> eva@Apocalypse.CAD.UCLA.EDU (Eva) writes:
|> 
|> > Does anyone have any ascii pictures of a dreidle or a chanukia?
|> > (If you send one of latkes I might be tempted to put sour cream on it and
|> >  take a bite out of the screen)
|> ----
|> Yuch!  Does anyone else eat latkes with sour cream?  I thought the only 
|> way to eat them was with apple sauce.

My family eats them with apple sauce, except for my stepfather, who prefers sour
cream.  My mother describes him as being from New York (we're all from
Boston).  He isn't, but then he isn't Jewish either. 
But it may indicate that Jews from New York have been
known to serve sour cream with latkes. (They eat funny bagels, too: soft and
fat.  I like thin, hard ones.)

It may depend on what you're used to serving latkes with.  We generally have
them with meat meals, and so do not serve sour cream.  (This is, for my
mother, a cultural survival.  She doesn't keep a kosher home, nor do I,
but dairy and meat together just taste wrong to us.  On the other hand,
I can eat hard cheeses [like cheddar] with meat without any problem.)

Julian C. Lander
jclander@mitre.org
From: bri@panix.com (Brian Shanblatt)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Synagogue MUSIC
Date: 21 Dec 92 16:54:40 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <1992Dec18.200306.15164@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>
>This is a topic I care about. Does anyone know of a congrgation (O or C)
>Rey Chabadniks sung to the tune of the French national anthem.  It
>happened several times.
>
>David

I think the piyut is "Lcahi Olamim."  I believe the Lubavitch
began using this tune to honor Napoleon, who, as he was sweeping
through Europe, he was "good" toward the Jews.  I am sure
history mavens could fill us in on the details!

I have also heard one of the Roumanian Dances used to the Full
Kaddish during Rosh Hashana.  I think it was with the Bostoner 
Chassidim.

There is a concept of taking an idea, a philosophy, or a "tune"
from the secular culture, and making it "Kodesh" (Holy) and
part of Judaism in some way.  Rambam wrote about the "truth"
in the some of the secular philosphies.

There is a concept in Jewish sacred music called "MiSinai Tunes",
that is tunes that are from Mt. Sinai.  Of course, no-one holds
that these tunes (or chants) actually come from Sinai, but
some chant is probably as old as the 1st Temple. This very
ancient chant would be found more in the communities untouched
by western culture, ie Yemen, etc.

But Misinai tunes are also tunes that come from secular sources.
There is mode called the "Ukranian Dorian" that is derived from Ukrain
folk melodies.  The famous chant for High Holyday Maariv is also
the same tune of a Monastic hymn "<something, I forgot> confessor...>
The sources for some of these tunes are now meaningless to most of us.
Their assimilation into our nusah was made more palatable by calling
them MiSinai, in the sense that we should treat them as Holy,
and unchangeable.

I think there is more of a problem using a tune from a
contemporary, recognizable secular source.  I call this
"Traif Source".  An extreme example is "Turkey in the Straw"
for Adon Olam.  A more subtle example is "erev shel shoshanim"
for the "mimkomo" in the Shabbat Musaf Kedushah.  "erev...", although
an Israeli melody, is a secular love song, and really does not
belong in the service.  Perhaps when "erev..." passes out of
our folk song memory and becomes identified only as a Shabbat
Musaf tune, then it would be acceptable.  It would be
difficult for this to happen, of course, with fanatics like
me ;->


-- 
bri@panix.com
"How to learn how to sing, Rule #1: There is always tomorrow..."
From: nmuller@ems.cdc.com (Nelson Muller)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: jews for germany
Date: 23 Dec 92 14:54:44 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Empros Systems International, a division of CDC

In article <1992Dec21.200036.1@vxdesy.desy.de>, godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:
|> 
|> Any prospective members of this new designer cult?
|>
 
I like Germany.  In reality, I love Germany so much I'd like to see 
20 Germanys, each one speaking a different language, and none speaking
German.

|> Laurence

-- 
=======================================================================
Nelson Muller                    |   e-mail:        nmuller@ems.cdc.com
Empros Systems International     |   scream-mail:   (612) 553-4694
2300 Berkshire Lane North        |   FAX:           (612) 553-4018
Plymouth,MN  55441-3694          |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                     I don't speak for my employer.
                     In fact, no one speaks for my employer.
                     Not even my employer.
=======================================================================
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: ACLU/AJC Menorah Police?
Date: 25 Dec 92 10:18:22 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Dec22.160019.25426@starbase.trincoll.edu> nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller) writes:
>
>>A 'secular society' is a euphemism.  There can be no truly 'secular'
>>society, since there would be nothing to keep it together.  Contemporary
>>US has come pretty close lately, but if you believe that we a re a
>>'secular' state, take a field trip to a shopping mall this week!
>
>The notion that a secular society would have no glue to keep it together
>is one of those pop sociological maxims that pay no attention to the
>overwhelming sociological reality that--with the exception of states
>like Iran, Sudan, Saudi Arabia--all other modern societies are secular.
>That's what European (and world) history has been about since the 15th
>century.

Your equating modernism with secularism is biased.  This perspective is
the core reason why Westerners misunderstand societies that are religiously
based, and where ignorance, stereotyping, and intolerance is readily fueled
and justified.  The fact is, is that Saudi Arabia is a controlled religious
environment and led by non-religious leaders.  Because of its wealth and
economic prosperity, it is infact a very modern society.  On the other hand,
Sudan exists in an impoverished nation where wealth and natural resources
do not allow the same standards of living.  By suggesting that religion
plays the key role in determining whether a nation is advanced *without*
addressing the economic and political aspects, weakens your statement.
 
>A secular society is not a society without traditions, values or insti-
>tutions; it is one in which _ultimate control_ over these traditions,
>values and institutions does not rest with religious authorities.

In basic level political science courses, sovereignty is taught.  And
that means that a nation (any nation) has the legitimate power to enact
whatever state system that it chooses.  In the case of a religiously
based constitution, the social structure consists of the traditions,
values, and moral code of that society.  There is indeed a definite
difference because the standards are higher, but that does not suggest
that those who choose not to abide by these ethics are not as
'enlightened' than the ones who live under a secular society.

Anisa
From: ad980@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul S. Wolf)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish Charities
Date: 29 Dec 1992 17:06:35 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Reply-To: ad980@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul S. Wolf)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, sg@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (stephan.gross) says:

>  Are other people bothered by the high salaries and waste of these charities?
>I have tried to avoid giving to them; usually, I put all my Jewish charity-
>money in State of Israel bonds.  Does anyone have any other charity recommen-
>dations?
>
	What a great guy.  He avoids giving to charities, preferring to put
all of his Jewish Charity money into Israel Bonds.  Of course that means 
that he is really giving NOTHING to charity, since Israel Bonds are LOANS
that eventually get repaid with interest.  

	It would seem to me that giving to SPECIFIC charities, like a 
Hebrew Free Loan Society, Jewish Family Service, Bureau of Jewish Education,
Yad Lakashish, or many others would be an appropriate way of avoiding the
large organizations he mentioned.  

	I do not mean to say that Israel Bonds is not a valid group, but
its NOT CHARITY, its a loan that is quite worthwhile in purpose.

	WRT the salaries that were mentioned,  the responsibilities and
hours that these people work may justify large salaries. I'm not going to
paint them all with a broad brush.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Disturbing comments
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 00:46:38 GMT

In article <CPLS13-181292133056@145.1.92.160> CPLS13@email.mot.com (Steven_Cohn) writes:
>The following posting was clipped from misc.consumers.  It contains some
>rather disturbing comments which I would like to respond to, but am not
>quite sure the best approach.  Can someone make some suggestions?
[....]
>
>>> In misc.consumers, imran@panix.com (Imran Anwar) writes:
>>> 
>>> If you are considering joining Prodigy as a new member, or left and are
>>> considering rejoining with their "come back" mailing efforts, or are
>>> just thinking Prodigy is the service you should use - just several
>>> pairs of two words:  STAY AWAY!  IT SUCKS!  BAD MOVE!
[....]
>
>>What I see here is the ramblings of anti-semitism!  It is no secret that the
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>parent companies of Prodigy have a strong Jewish backing.  And with a name
>>like "Imran Anwar", it does not surprise me that you should have such a hate
>>for anything that smells Jewish.  In fact, I have a very good Lebanese friend
>>here who will have absolutely nothing to do with Prodigy because of this.
>>Personally, I think you guys are missing out on one of the greatest online
>>services provided.
>
>Is this for real??????

Sadly, I am not at all surprised.  Sometimes it's more amazing how some
people's brains work than seeing the Space Shuttle take off.  Or going
to Disneyland.  The incredible leaps the human mind will take in
justifying a conclusion already decided on...

Wonder what goes on in the back rooms at Consumer Reports.

GMS
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@itexjct.jct.ac.il (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Kahane's philosophy
Organization: ITEX, Jerusalem, Israel
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 18:51:52 GMT

In <1992Dec28.145841.27491@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

>	But he has controlled himself.  He has not killed anyone.  As to
>seeking counseling, that is only necessary if he is about to do
>something.  He does not need counseling just because he made that
>statement.

He most certainly does need whatever it takes to prevent him from
making statements of this sort, lest someone take him literally and
"kills any Arab who stands in our way".  I don't care if it's
counseling, a neder not to talk to reporters, so long as it stops.

From your point of view David, would it not be a desecration of the
memory of his father for an act of murder to be attributed to his
purported followers?  Would it not be in the interest of those who
truly understand his teachings to urge restraint rather than public
-- 
/|/-\/-\
|__/__/_/
|warren@
/ nysernet.org
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: ERETZ YISRAEL (was Re: deportation)
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 21:04:43 GMT

In article <4807@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:

# In article <1992Dec31.234107.4527@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

# >	There never was any kind of a State of "plaestine?"!  How often
# >does this have to be repeated?
 
# When we take the cotton out of our ears and you start speaking
# audibly, David.
 
	So you admit you are intentionally blocking the truth from
yourselves.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: SCJ HAS BEEN DECONTAMINATED!
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 21:52:05 GMT

davidh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (David Klein) writes:

> If everybody believes in an eye for an eye,
> doesn't that leave the world blind?

No.  First, this would require that all people commit the crime twice.
Second, at least two people would have to remain with their eyesight
intact, in order to serve as witnesses.

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: chr04ha@vmsa.technion.ac.il
Subject: Re: The differences, again :-)  
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 15:07:23 GMT

In article <9212311833.AA16499@cyclone.sbi.com>, gertler@cyclone.sbi.com 
(Don Gertler) writes:
> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
>> <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)> writes:
>> >hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
> 
>> Did God communicate even to Moshe in Hebrew?  This is not intended to be
>> other than serious.  There is no reason to believe that Hebrew was the
[The rest deleted]
> I'm not sure what you're saying here.  Are you disputing the possibility
> that G-d communicated with Moshe in Hebrew?  Could the language have
> existed by the time they left Egypt (which is of more significance anyway)?
[the rest deleted]

I do not dispute the seriousness of this colloquy, but could'nt help 
being reminded of an old joke:

Galitzianer to Litvak: You know, of course, that Moses was a Galitzianer. 
Litvak to Galitzianer: How can you possibly know that?
Galitzianer to Litvak: Can't you read? He starts the Torah: "Beraishis buru
                       Eloikim es hoshomoyim ve'es hu'uretz." 
Amitai 
*---------------------------------------------------------------*
 | E.A. Halevi, Department of Chemistry, Technion - I.I.T.       |     
 | "Mipnei seiva takum, vehadarta pnei zaken" - Leviticus 19, 32 |
 *---------------------------------------------------------------*
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:24414 soc.culture.arabic:6167
From: gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mercenary Programmer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: ERETZ YISRAEL (was Re: deportation)
Date: 2 Jan 1993 13:40:19 GMT
Organization: Free Software Foundation
NNTP-Posting-Host: spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In article <1992Dec31.045446.14659@newshub.ccs.yorku.ca> wc4209@writer.yorku.ca (Irene Berkovich) writes:
>
>Colonialist????
>Get a life.
>Jews have always lived in the land of Israel (from the time of Aaron).

The fact that some Jews have always lived in the land of Israel
from the time of Aaron does not change the fact that other Jews
currently living in that area are colonists.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: CHANUKKAH GREETINGS <- WARSAW
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 16:56:52 GMT

In article <9212231504.AA00235@nysernet.ORG> <shelomoh  slawomir
ZIENIUK <sHELOMOH@PLEARN.BITNET>> writes:

>----------------------------Original message----------------------------

Is this some kind of prank to perpetuate the stereotype of the stupidity
of people from Poland?  This guy posted the same messages a half a dozen
times and the first 75 lines of each message are a repetition of this
useless line.  What gives?

I tried sending mail but the address was poorly formed. Wehn I fixed that,
I found it was a nonexistent address anyway.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene)
Subject: DEPORTATION - READ THIS
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 93 03:36:15 GMT

Please, please, please take the ~400 posts to SCJ on mideast politics
and deport them to talk.politics.mideast, where they can establish
a homeland of their own.  Every time one of those posts appears
in our zone in SCJ, we have to use our KILL files, and the 
U.N. condemns us.

Rob



--
Robert A. Levene     Internet: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu
  "/  //  / /"         Bitnet:   RXL1@APLVM
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: Jewish Christmas Carol Hits
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 23:38:11 GMT


Daniel Faigin's quotation of the lyrics of "Light One Candle" is
the best summary I've ever seen of the universal symbolism of
Chanukah and the Menorah.

David
-- 
David Sternlight
RIPEM Public Key on server  --  Consider it an envelope for your e-mail

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: All Arabs are guilty
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 23:35:59 GMT

ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira) writes:

>As a side note,
>Palestinians are guilty of existing within the borders of the promised land.
>Zionism  implies that Palestinian Arabs are guilty of competing for
>the land that is given to Jews, and that the Jews would be better off
>if they did not exist.

There is enough land there for everyone.  The early Zionists
anticipated living together in peace with the few Arabs who were
already there;  they did not anticipate that the Arabs would want to
drive the Jews into the sea.

>Mackowsky  Kahane and about 20% of Israelis say it explicitly, the rest of
>the Israelis do not say it but it is implied from all their statements.
>If you support the law of return for Jews only, then you must see the
>Arabs as an obstacle.

There's an asymmetry to the conflict.  The Arabs have dozens of
nations, many times the size of Eretz Yisrael.  The Jews have only
that tiny speck of land.

The Arabs who are there are no obstacle.  A massive influx of Arabs
obviously would be.

>Zionism is not racism, but to implement it, you have to engage in genocide.

Terrific verbal gymnastics.  Totally absurd.
-- 
Alan H. Stein                     astein@israel.nysernet.org
President -- AJIN -- The American Jewish Information Network
       Bringing The Global Jewish Community Together