HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: daveh@frackit.UUCP (Dave Hultberg)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Summary: How about excluding politically correct groups?
Date: 27 Aug 92 15:31:42 GMT
Followup-To: rec.scouting
Organization: Esoteric Tribble Factory, Harrisburg, PA

I have a question of my own for Carl Kadie.  Based on your statements of
not funding groups that discriminate based on race, how do you feel
about the United Negro College Fund?  Shouldn't we also withdraw support
for the Girl Scouts since they don't admit boys or allow men to be the
troop leader?  Get rid of the Jaycees, they discriminate against older
men.  Which private organizations should the United Way or corporations
support?  Where does it end?  Should we just abolish the United Way? 
Then we could all just give to the charities of our choice?  The next
time United Way has their annual drive, take a hard look at who they
fund.  You might be surprised at the other private organizations with
restrictive membership criteria that they support.


-- 
Private site: ka3uzr    |    Mechanicsburg, Pa.    |    Dave Hultberg
uunet!rutgers!psuvax1!eds1!wa3wbu!frackit!ka3uzr!daveh 
vogon1!wa3wbu!frackit!ka3uzr!daveh@psuvax1.psu.edu  
daveh@ka3uzr.uucp    -or-    ka3uzr!daveh@uunet.UU.NET
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: R1SCM@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU (Dr. Steven C. Myers)
Subject: Re: What's the use in having this group???
Organization: The University of Akron
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 14:58:13 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.173758.11098@tamsun.tamu.edu>
wjh0265@tamsun.tamu.edu (William Hobson) writes:
 
>
>I thought that this group might get useful after the BSA flame wars died down.
>This week my KILL file has left me with nothing to read - everything posted
>was stuff I already put in my KILL file.  A special interest group has ruined
>this group for those of us who still feel that homosexuality is immoral.  I
>guess that it is about time to impose the ultimate kill file - unsubscribe,
>unless we can get another group started that isn't taken over and ruined by
>special interest groups.
 
Agreed.  I get better info on SCOUTS-L and Rec.Backcountry
Steve Myers
Scoutmaster
Troop 1
From: infante@acpub.duke.edu (Andrew  Infante)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 4 Sep 92 15:30:18 GMT
Followup-To: rec.scouting
Distribution: usa
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

In article <hill.715545153@galena12> hill@rtsg.mot.com (Karen Hill) writes:
>bobhays@spss.com (Bob Hays) writes:
>
>>Perhaps we should restate and retrench a little here....  There are
>>not but that behaviors like drug abuse (note that I did not say drug
>>use here:-) and theft may indeed inhibit and actually decrease the
>>member's purposes.
>
>Ok....If someone chooses to abuse drugs in the privacy of his own home and 
>considers this behavior acceptable and moral, should society put restrictions
>on him if it doesn't hurt anyone else (based on several other replies to
>my question)? How does society decide what is acceptable and what is not?
>
>Lately, it appears that the loudest voices and deepest pockets make the
>decisions. But who's to say that they know best?
>
>-Karen Hill

Who's to say that if an individual is supposedly _Abusing_ drugs in the 
privacy of his/her own home that society is going to _know_ about it.

How would anyone know he was abusing drugs unless it was not in private.

The issue is not the same.

Someone abusing drugs is only hurting society if he is at least
_affecting_ society.

Individuals who do _anything_ in the privacy of their own home, short of
murder, rape, and other _hurtful_ crimes (and no, _homesexuality and 
drug use is not hurtful_) is their _own_ business.

Selling drugs, or for that matter, yourself, out of your home, especially
in a neighborhood where _FAMILY VALUES_ are of the utmost importance, 
could be construed as hurtful.

BTW, did anyone see the polls out from CNN about the family values issue?

It seems that quite a few people actually believe in this crap.

wake up.
family values means "believe what I believe and we'll all be happy"

fuck that.

later.

andy.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: popelka@odysseus.uchicago.edu (Glenn Popelka)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: University of Chicago  LASR
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 16:24:12 GMT


gascan@dcst16.dc (Bill Gascoyne) laments:

>  This is not what I try to read this group [rec.scouting, gp] for, and think
>  I'm going to unsubscribe for awhile and see if everyone whom you all have
>  chased off (intentionally or not) comes back, and we can find each other in
>  the midst of all these other posts to talk about all of the other aspects
>  of actually running a Scout troop.
>  Regretably, good-bye for now!

To which jce@ocean.geol.scarolina.edu (Chris Evans) retorts:

> Give me a break.  Can't you read the subject lines?
> There is obviously a lot of interest in these questions.  Why are you
> trying to suppress it?

To which I say:

  I've never understood cross-posting. An interesting topic in 
 alt.politics.homosexuality can't be expected to generate the
 same enthusiasm in rec.scouting or chi.general. News readers
 aren't so lame that they'll miss out on a topic if it isn't
 cross posted to 5 different newsgroups. 

  Perhaps in future discussions on this issue, rec.scouting and 
 chi.general could be removed from the distribution line. Readers
 of those two groups would read aph, or aa, or ad if they were
 really interested, and the discussion wouldn't be suppressed.

  Imagine if somebody cross-posted to alt.pat.buchannan and aph,
 which lead to hundreds of followups in aph from rabid buchannan 
 fans.  Some people would be irritated by that, and there's no
 reason why they shouldn't be.

  The situation isn't quite that extreme here, but I think you get 
the idea. Please think before you cross-post, and then don't
cross-post.
  
 Thank you,

 glenn
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<1992Aug28.094716.13262@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 22:09:51 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.094716.13262@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> mycroft@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Charles Hannum) writes:

>   In article <1992Aug25.193235.8584@ctr.columbia.edu>
>   StarWatcher@uiuc.edu writes:
> >
> > Even though it may be within BSA's rights to do so, I consider their
> > dismissing gay or bi scout leaders reprehensible since it is
> > discrimination based upon a person's private life.

> If you found out that, in the privacy of my home, I bite off the heads
> of chickens, would you not change your opinion of me?

Yo!  How is being gay parallel to biting the heads off of chickens?

Or are you just *trying* to be annoying?
--
Andrew Werling    awerling@nmsu.edu    yip@acca.nmsu.edu
From: dunne@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (robert.c.dunne)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Definition of "Scouting Spirit"
Keywords: Scouting Spirit Scoutmaster Conference
Date: 31 Aug 92 16:49:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsm.1992Aug31.164943.23607
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Aug27.132139.15829@phx.mcd.mot.com> eam@phx.mcd.mot.com (Ed Mohrman) writes:
>During our troop adult leader meeting, we reviewed this issue and 
>established some concrete criteria. We set:
>
>1) Attend at least 50% of the regular meetings
>2) Attend at lest 50% of the troop outings
>3) Display a positive attitude toward others
>4) Boys holding leadership positions should be fulfilling their duties
>5) Participate in a t lest one service project per year
>6) Pay their dues


This is similar to our standards in Berkeley Heights NJ. except we require
75% attendance and add to the list attendance at our Fund raiser at a 
recycling center.  I too have been wondering if our standards are in line
with other Troops. We have a Troop of 50 Scouts with a average of 1.5 obtaining
Eagle each year (usually age 16 or 17).

			Bob Dunne
			Troop 368 (ASM)
			(SM retired)
From: kati@glnserv.UUCP (Lady Dragon)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: What's the use in having this group???
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 07:24:57 CDT
Organization: Vermi-net, Houston, Tx. 77098

89b0016@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au writes:
> I agree with you partially. I hate all this wasted bandwidth, when I want to
> see what other people have to say about scouting, not politics. I don't
> care whether homosexuality is immoral or not - as far as this Newsgroup is
> concerned, it's irrelevant. Ye gods, nobody's going to achieve anything by
> discussing the issue here. These people haven't even achieved anything as
> simple as a letter campaign. Since they're achieving nothing, they could
> at least do us the courtesy of leaving the newsgroup alone. I'm giving
> the group one week, then signing off. Not much hope !

Instead of signing off, why not just post what YOU would like to see here.
You can't always depend on others to do what you want to do, sometimes you
have to work with people, whether you agree with them or not. Find out
what you would like to see here and start posting it.

* * email address: nuchat!xcluud!glnserv!kati * Houston, Texas, USA, Earth * *




Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: pepke@ds1.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 1 Sep 92 16:01:24 GMT
Reply-To: pepke@ds1.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
Followup-To: rec.scouting
Distribution: usa
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University

In article <1992Aug31.201406.13456@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>I'm curious how atheism is being defined here. I'm an atheist in the sense
>that I don't believe in a "human" god. However I see the universe as being
>a "being" in a very loose sense of the word, I could honestly say that I
>believe in a higher power.

I don't know about any group's particular definism of "atheism."  However,
using fairly common meanings, what you describe is usually called "pantheism."
Some people call it "Deism," but that's not very precise, because "Deism" also
describes an entirely different set of beliefs.  

-EMP
From: klb@stiatl.salestech.com (Kathy Ball)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Scouting paraphernalia in Australia, NZ
Summary: Is there a scout store in Sydney?
Keywords: australia, new zealand, pins, patches, store
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:07:52 GMT
Organization: Sales Technologies, Inc.

My step-father (with no access to the Net) is a Scoutmaster
(he lives and breathes Scouting).  He is planning
a trip to Australia and New Zealand in Nov. and Dec., and would
like to find a Scout store where he might find a pin
or patch with some local Scout flavor.  He collects them.

The details of the trip:

Sydney, Australia (actually Manly) from 20 Nov. to 2 Dec. 
  He will have pretty free access to a car here - staying with relatives.

Auckland to Hamilton, NZ, from 2 Dec. to 4 Dec.
  I think they're renting a car here, so anywhere between
  Auckland and Hamilton, or even reasonably nearby, would be
  fine.

If anyone knows of a place he could pick up pins or patches, 
I would really like to hear about it.  Location, a phone#
would be helpful or operating hours, any details you know.

Please e-mail and I'll summarize to the net if anyone's interested.

Thanks,

Kathy Ball for Jerry Hurd-Smith of Atlanta, Georgia.

klb@salestech.com
  or
uupsi!stiatl!klb

-- 
Kathy Ball                                             uupsi!stiatl!klb
Sales Technologies, Inc
3399 Peachtree Rd, NE
Atlanta, GA  (404) 841-4159
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2528 alt.politics.homosexuality:5476
From: elliott@a8.ima.umn.edu (Frank Elliott)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 23 Aug 92 23:29:49 GMT
Organization: ima

In article <1992Aug21.153006.16090@m.cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>In article <1992Aug21.110428.10268@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
>kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>
>
>I support the legal right of BSA to exclude atheists and gays boys
>(and the KKK to exclude Jews and blacks).
>
>- Carl
>--
>Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

I support honesty in advertising.  Why not have the BSA change its name to
"the Buchannon Youth" so that the name can fit the policy?

How about that Republican convention?  Isn't it a shame when cousins marry?

-- Frank
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 21:02:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.134007.17942@spdc.ti.com> achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Jeff Achenbach) writes:

>I don't understand the objection to any private group using any criteria 
>whatsoever for membership. If you don't like it, don't support it, but
>freedom for all includes freedom for those you loathe. As long as they 
>aren't supported by your tax dollars.

BSA gets my tax dollars through the United Way.

>  Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are too few good
>influences on young people today.

Unfortunately, that's exactly what BSA is doing; in an attempt to
throw out the bathwater by excluding queer scouts *and leaders*, they
are eliminating some damn fine scout leaders out there.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "I don't know how much support NAMBLA
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  has in the gay community."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Clayton Cramer, August 1992
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 16:34:14 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Aug27.162412.1797@midway.uchicago.edu> popelka@odysseus.uchicago.edu (Glenn Popelka) writes:
>
>gascan@dcst16.dc (Bill Gascoyne) laments:
>
>>  This is not what I try to read this group [rec.scouting, gp] for, and think
>>  I'm going to unsubscribe for awhile and see if everyone whom you all have
>>  chased off (intentionally or not) comes back, and we can find each other in
>>  the midst of all these other posts to talk about all of the other aspects
>>  of actually running a Scout troop.
>>  Regretably, good-bye for now!
>
>To which jce@ocean.geol.scarolina.edu (Chris Evans) retorts:
>
>> Give me a break.  Can't you read the subject lines?
>> There is obviously a lot of interest in these questions.  Why are you
>> trying to suppress it?
>
>To which I say:
>
>  I've never understood cross-posting. An interesting topic in 
> alt.politics.homosexuality can't be expected to generate the
> same enthusiasm in rec.scouting or chi.general. News readers
> aren't so lame that they'll miss out on a topic if it isn't
> cross posted to 5 different newsgroups. 
>
>  Perhaps in future discussions on this issue, rec.scouting and 
> chi.general could be removed from the distribution line. Readers
> of those two groups would read aph, or aa, or ad if they were
> really interested, and the discussion wouldn't be suppressed.
>
>  Imagine if somebody cross-posted to alt.pat.buchannan and aph,
> which lead to hundreds of followups in aph from rabid buchannan 
> fans.  Some people would be irritated by that, and there's no
> reason why they shouldn't be.
>
>  The situation isn't quite that extreme here, but I think you get 
>the idea. Please think before you cross-post, and then don't
>cross-post.
>  
> Thank you,
>
> glenn
And I reply, 
Sorry Glenn, but I've read rec.scouting for a long time now, and the only 
reason I didn't post here previously was because I was alienated from the
BSA for being gay, and so I did not contribute to the group.  Why contribute
when I am not wanted?  This subject has quite an interest in my active
participation with scouting (which I would enjoy being able to do) and also
with many others in a similar predicament.  Please do not assume that all
of the people posting to this issue are strangers to rec.scouting, and do
not have a vested interest in it.  If you read my posts, you will notice that
some of us are trying to deal with this in an educational and cooperative 
manner.  Others are not.  That's life.  Besides, wouldn't you rather listen
to the opinions of both sides (or multi-sides) and get more information than 
just sit with your head in the sand? Lets face it, the decisions that come out 
of this issue will affect us all.  
thanks.
WWW
Dominick V. Zurlo
From: brahms@delaware.tdd.sj.nec.com (George Skillman  x2921)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Heredity of homosexuality
Date: 29 Aug 92 02:32:18 GMT
Organization: NEC-AM TDD, San Jose, California

In article <78584@ut-emx.uucp> zeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Mark Gansle) writes:

>And therein lies the difference between racism and discrimination
>against homosexuals.  One is proven to be hereditary and so cannot be
>changed and is not a subject for ridicule.  The other seems very likely
>to be a personal choice, and like all personal choices, is subject to judgment.
>
>+-------------------------+-------------------------+
>|Cloud-gathering Zeus     |Think globally.          |
>|                         |Act locally.             |
>|zeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu  |Eat my shorts totally.   |
>+-------------------------+-------------------------+

I have no idea whether I'm gay by heredity or environment and don't really
care.  Lots of characteristics, both positive and negative, are influenced
by either or both.

I assume you oppose allowing gays into the BSA.  What is your basis for this
judgement?  But it's only fair that: "as you judge, so shall you be judged".
If you can't justify your ostracizing and degrading gays, I would
retort that you do not live up to the ideals of the BSA and should resign.

--
=============================================================
George Skillman (408) 433-2921
brahms@tdd.sj.nec.com
NEC America
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 04:00:05 GMT

stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:

[...]
>I see that in the two days that I hadn't logged in, this discussion
>is still raging on rec.scouting.  Nothing new has been said, but the
>BSA detractors still insist on misusing this newsgroup for their
>own private agenda.
[...]

Discussing BSA policy is not a misuse of this newsgroup.

Even if policy discussion is interfering with discussions of other
topics, suppression of such discussion is not necessary (or
appropriate). There is a more constructive alternative.

I suggest you work toward replacing rec.scouting with more
topic-specific newsgroups that everyone could be happy with. Earlier
today, I suggested:

      rec.scouting.policy   (e.g. BSA policy)
      rec.scouting.local    (e.g. organizing a winter camping trip)
      rec.scouting.misc     (e.g. scout laws around the world)

- Carl
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: mayne@pipe.cs.fsu.edu (William Mayne)
Subject: Re: VENTURE CREW INFORMATION WANTED
Reply-To: mayne@cs.fsu.edu
Organization: Florida State University Computer Science Department
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 14:38:35 GMT

In article <24333@oasys.dt.navy.mil> ford@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Harry Ford) writes:
>
>     Our scout troop is looking into the possibility of creating a Venture
>Crew. Anybody out there with some experience or words of wisdom about
>how well this has worked? Thanks for any help

I haven't got a clue. Pardon me if this is a stupid question, but just
what is a Venture Crew? I realize anyone who could answer your question
would already know, but perhaps you'll take a moment to enlighten the
rest of us anyway. I'd be interested in a short explanation.

Bill Mayne
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<1992Aug29.145536.3961@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> <+vhntkg@lynx.unm.edu>
	<hill.715369256@galena12> <1992Sep1.221719.9867@rtsg.mot.com>
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 03:53:32 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.221719.9867@rtsg.mot.com> yorton@turtle11.rtsg.mot.com (James J. Yorton) writes:

> Not really.  If the scout leader is *forced out* because of, say his
> minority status, that's a form of discrimination.  Parents have every
> right to have their child associate with whom (or without whom) they wish.
> If they don't like their child to have a gay scout leader and they
> decide to pull that child out of that troop, how is that discimination?
> They're pulling the child out *voluntarily*. 

Well, I just posted something that I think shows how that *is*
discrimination, in that it teaches the child that discrimination is
okay and/or that child (if gay) is a subhuman that does not deserve
equal rights.

> I'll use an example I used
> before: Thirty some years ago, some parents wouldn't have wanted their
> child to be near a scout leader who was African American.  Who should leave?

The parents should be good parents and let the children decide.

>   Whether it's racism, sexism, anti-Semitism, or homophobia,
>   bigotry is bigotry no matter how you slice it.  It is a
>   learned behavior and it can be unlearned.

Amen!

--
Andrew Werling   awerling@nmsu.edu   yip@acca.nmsu.edu
"now we find sodom strange take it out put it in your mouth how do you like
gomorrah now a taste of this swallow that feel the fish hide the hat ezekial
where's your wheel you better grease it GREASE GREASE GREASE GREASE! ROCK!!!"
       --Chainsaw Kittens, "Ezekial Walks Through Sodom and Gomorrah"
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: macman@bernina.ethz.ch (Danny Schwendener)
Subject: Re: Okay, rec.scouting take two...
Organization: Peppermint Software Inc.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 18:04:29 GMT

philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara) writes:

>     Why not just create rec.scouting.policy and leave the current
>newsgroup for the miscellany?

Because the charter of rec.scouting will need to be modified to reflect
the split, and many people will be confused and believe that the group
is still open to all discussions (including political issues).
A new group name will make the new character of the group obvious at
first sight.

-- Danny
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality