HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: Wordstruck
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 16:29:36 GMT

Mike Morris dilates on Eco and Ockham:


>Speaking of another book I haven't read, I've gotten a chapter or so into
>_Il nome della rosa_, but any more will have to wait a gumption renewal
>for my reading Italian. Nevertheless, I've been wondering about something
>with this book for some time. This may be well known and much-discussed,
>so I'll apologize in advance if such is the case, but I'm wondering
>if Brother William is not modelled greatly on William of Ockham? Let me
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	Ah,  silly me, and I thought he was modelled on Sherlock Holmes.


>How many of these details fit William of Baskerville I wonder?
>I catch many resonances with what little I know of the book
>(from the movie, from discussions, and from peering over my
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>wife's shoulder when she read it).

	Must we not then ask how many of these details fit Sean
	Connery as well?
	
>             Mike Morris
>      (msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca)

	No! Wait, Connery has a beard, Eco has a beard; hence,
intimations of imitative philosophies of the hirsute. If Ockham had a
beard (and we know he had a razor) then is not nominalism refuted? But
surely there must be universal essences in reality, or there would not
be beards. Now Durant - he was a hairless man, and so was his brother
Esau, no, it was Esau that was the hairy man and his brother was the
hairless man. Does nominalism refute Durant and ergo, Esau? But there
is a question of chronology here. When, exactly, did Ockham get his
razor? And where did he wield that razor? Inquiring minds want to
know.

Keith

President, Massachusetts Institute of the Philosophically Hirsute.
	   est. 1992


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keith Morgan		      | Criticism is prejudice made plausible.
kamorgan@athena.mit.edu       |                          H.L. Mencken
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: sullivana@gtephx.UUCP (Anne Sullivan)
Subject: Re: Canon in an Altered Key
Summary: Sburgfort / Revol. War books
Organization: AG Communication Systems, Phoenix, Arizona
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:42:25 GMT

In article <78328@ut-emx.uucp>, jzimm@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Joann Zimmerman) writes:
> In article <1992Aug20.162025.14363@nas.nasa.gov> wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith) writes:
> 
> >William Sburgfort Smith
> 
> I've been meaning to ask - if your middle name is "Sburgfort," how
> come does your "From:" line give your middle initial as "R"?
> 
Since Sburgfort only appeared in Mr. Smith's name a couple of months
ago, I assumed it was part of his net persona.  I have been enjoying it
immensely as it makes him sound like a Civil War general.  
Confederate, of course.   I picture him as middle aged and solid with
a very large mustache, always in uniform.  He lives in a black and
white universe like a Matthew Brady photograph.  

Back to books.  I have been reading Revolutionary War novels after
getting the list posted here and decided that I wanted to read some
real history as well.  The last time I studied it was in 8th grade
22 years ago.  I got Edmund Morgan's book (I forget the title,
but I picked it because it was a short overview) and wondered
if anyone here can give me an opinion of it.  It is quite readable,
but I don't know how much to trust him.  Someone here also mentioned
Pauline Maier's book and I will get that the next trip to the
library.  Does anyone have any more suggestions?  
 

Anne Sullivan  @ AG Communication Systems, Phoenix AZ  
(A joint venture of GTE and AT&T)
UUCP: ...!{ncar!noao!enuucp | uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp | att}!gtephx!sullivana   
Internet: gtephx!sullivana@enuucp.eas.asu.edu
From: ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: THE LOST ADVENTURES OF SHERLOCK HOLMES by Ken Greenwald
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:22:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsj.1992Aug28.172222.28113
Organization: AT&T


          THE LOST ADVENTURES OF SHERLOCK HOLMES by Ken Greenwald
              Mallard Press, ISBN 0-792-45107-4, 1989, $9.98.
                     A book review by Evelyn C. Leeper
		      Copyright 1992 Evelyn C. Leeper

     This book came in and went out of print so fast that if you blinked you
missed it.  I did, and ended up having to pay more than cover price for it
(at Whodunit? in Philadelphia which still had two or three more copies).  It
comprises thirteen short stories based on the original radio plays starring
Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce from the 1945-1946 season.  The plays
themselves are available on cassette as "The New Adventures of Sherlock
Holmes," which includes not only these stories but several more from the
series as well.

     The stories themselves are rather pale imitations of Doyle.  As radio
plays they engage the listener's attention, but transcribed to paper they
seem rather thin.  Some are based on incidents briefly mentioned in the
Canon (e.g., "The Adventure of the Notorious Canary Trainer").  And one of
them even includes the daughter of Irene Adler--I'm beginning to hate THE
woman (here rendered as "THE WOMAN," making it sound as though Holmes is
screaming every time he says it!).

     All in all, THE LOST ADVENTURES OF SHERLOCK HOLMES is probably of only
minor interest and I can't recommend spending a lot of time looking for it
or money if you find it.

Evelyn C. Leeper   |   +1 908 957 2070   |   att!mtgzy!ecl or ecl@mtgzy.att.com
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Date: Wed,  2 Sep 1992 10:24:54 -0400 
From: Lori Cole <lc1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: McClure's South Africa: THE SONG DOG
	<1992Sep2.020925.9728@cs.rochester.edu>

Ironically, I just discovered the Kramer and Zondi novels in the last
month, beginning with SONG DOG.  They are mostly out of print in the
U.S., but because of the success of the "prequel" there is hope that
they will be reissued.  However, I've managed to find a number of them
in second-hand book shops.  Try DEATH OF A HANGMAN and THE ARTFUL EGG,
although THE STEAM PIG is the first of the series.

Lori Cole
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: spb0457@zeus.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Subject: Re: Harlan Ellison
Summary: Harlan Ellison books
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: Harlan Ellison
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 18:51:00 GMT

Clarence Gordon writes...
>does anyon know who to get Harlan Ellison books.  none of the book
>stores around here (Palo Alto, CA) carry his books. i find this strange
>since he is such an acclaimed writer. please help and let me know either
>by posting or by e-mail. thanks. trey@leland.stanford.edu

+--------------------------------------SubG---------------------------------+
Iffin' you can't find any Ellison on the shelves, you can certainly place
orders.  Try _Angry Candy_, _Deathbird Stories_ and _The Essential Ellison_
(in no particular order), a)  because they represent some of his best 
fiction and b)  they're among the Ellison books that never seem to go
out of print (well... _Angry Candy's_ only a year or two old, so...).









Yours etc.,





SubGenius
From: napier@cs.ucsd.edu (Jim Napier)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Sherlock Holmes Quote
Date: 1 Sep 92 20:43:30 GMT
Organization: AMEs Dept., UC San Diego


I looking for a Sherlock Holmes quote which I can't remember fully. To
paraphrase it Holmes stated that "when all the facts have been
properly taken into account, the resulting conclusion, no matter how
bizarre, must be the truth". Can anyone give me the correct exact quote?
Thanks.


-- 
Jim Napier
Systems Administration
Applied Mechanics & Engineering Sciences Dept.
UC San Diego
(619)534-5414
jnapier@ucsd.edu
Jim Napier
Systems Administration
Applied Mechanics & Engineering Sciences Dept.
UC San Diego
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Why I read the Economist
Date: 1 Sep 92 23:01:45 GMT


mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:

> mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:

>> To think that I've been accused of being pompous, when the very definition
>> of the word is living out in Palo Alto.

> I disagree. "The very definition of the word" lives here in r.a.b.
> True, Francis Muir lives in Palo Alto (or thereabouts), but I'd be
> cautious about assuming that the Palo Alto Francis Muir is
> identical to "Fido," "Philomath," "Francis Muir," and other personae
> who visit rec.arts.books.

Mike, of course is right -- however this pompous persona does seem to post
from the Palo Alto area.

Of course, I often enjoy it -- even at its most pompous.

Mark


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: bjag@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Bharathi Jagadeesh)
Subject: Re: Patrick O'Brian vs Horatio Hornblower...
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 19:23:16 GMT

John Nall writes:

  BTW, this thread awoke in me a great longing to read some more good sea
  stories.  Anyone got any suggestions?  While hovering around the Public
  Library shelves, trying forlornly to tell books by their covers, I thought
  how neat it would be if there were a database available into which I could
  put a subject ("sea stories") and it would spit out a list of good ones :-(

Here's a list of names of authors who write Hornblower/O'Brian like "sea
stories" (that is, naval adventures set during the late 18th century and during
the napoleonic wars)

Dudley Pope: Numerous "Captain Ramage" books.
Richard Woodman: "Nathanial Drinkwater" books.
Alexander Kent: "Richard Bolitho" books.
C. Northcoate Parkinson: "Richard Delancy" books.
Dewy Lambdin: "Alan Lewrie" books.

These books are of varying qualities and none of them match Forrester's
Hornblower books, but they're worth a Sunday afternoon read.

Occasionally I've found this type of book by searching in the library under
"Naval History-Fiction", "Napoleonic Wars - Fiction" and the like.

This is Stan Berman writing on his wife's (who he hasn't convinced to read
Hornblower yet) account.
-- 
Bharathi Jagadeesh/bjag@nwu.edu
Who is that mumbles in the dark/ who is it that draws his veil across the
stars/ Langston Hughes
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kate@cactus.org (Katherine M. Catmull)
Subject: Re: The Literary Canon
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, Austin, Tx
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 22:36:15 GMT

One more word on "white" v. "Caucasian" and then I'll shut up,
I promise. 

I agree with Mark and, oh god I guess Clayton, that Greeks are
"white" in the "Caucasian" sense.

Perhaps some of us have been using the word white imprecisely.
But speaking only for myself, this is what I mean:

My husband is Cajun. He claims not to be a "white person." This had 
amused me for years--although he is occasionally mistaken for a
Mexican-American (definitely not "white people" in Texas), the fact
is (I felt) that he is white.

A couple of months ago we were watching a TV program about Cajuns--
Cajuns in New Iberia, whence his people hail, in fact. An 
old Cajun man was talking about developers trying to buy his land,
and he kept saying "Them white people tryin' to take my land, I'm
not sellin' my land to those white people."

And I realized that in Louisiana, up until at least their recent 
trendiness, Cajuns were not considered white--not by the "really" white
people. Just as Mexicans are not considered "really" white by
the people who run the state of Texas.

So--leaving ancient Greeks out of this--maybe someone could give me
a better word for those Caucasions who at any given period in history
are not considered "white" by the White People In Charge.

I'm not sure this makes any sense, it's been a long day, but that's
the definition of "non-white" that I think would be most useful in
this discussion.

Kate



-- 
- - - - - - - -
kate@cactus.org
Be the voice of night and Florida in my ear.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: The White Man's Burden of Proof. Was: The Literary Canon
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: 1 Sep 92 21:08:38

Mark Taranto posts:

       The ONLY people I have ever heard complain about racism
     towards whites (other than Clayton) are white supremicists.

Mark hasn't been paying much attention unless he claims magical
means of identifying white supremacists.  Almost all of the people
who complained about the singer who said it was time for a week
of killing whites called it racist.

--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:15575 soc.culture.british:12146
From: mls@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (mike.siemon)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Why I read the Economist
Summary: sixth form
Date: 4 Sep 92 02:04:17 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Sep3.174615.2919@nas.nasa.gov>, wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov
(William R. Smith) writes:

> Gerard Fryer writes:

> Could someone relate the U.S. school grades to British forms?

Ah, the sixth form -- the evanescent and possibly mythical interval
between secondary and higher education.

The simplest correspondence (and it will do at a pinch) is to read
the forms as the years past primary school.  That is, a child of 10-
12 years finishes what in America is the sixth grade and here goes
on (sometimes) to "junior high school" continuing the count of grades.

In the Imperial tradition, that first year of secondary school would
be the first form.  And fifth form takes one up to roughly the age
at which Americans complete highschool -- in my "simplest correspon-
dence" to the junior year.  This is the year at which one takes one's
O-level exams (I've never seen the "O" expanded, I presume it stands
for "ordinary") which are those that determine the future for _hoi
polloi_ 

Scholars remain for another year or two, to prepare for the A-levels
("advanced?").  In the colonies, where I taught, the material of this
prep. was either absurd (highly elaborate and useless Newtonian mechanics,
taught as a maths discipline, along with more senseless integration tricks
than one could shake a workstation at) or at roughly the same level as
one finds in "lower class" [sic!] courses at an American University.

In the home counties, no doubt, the oddities of this system had been
addressed one way or another (to screams of outrage, of course); in
deepest Malaysia, the prior generation's templates were very much the
rage in educational circles that were grinding out the bureaucrats
of the coming generation.

I did some sixth-form teaching at my first posting, much to the
outrage of the earnest Babu headmaster, who *knew* from Time magazine
that no American could possibly be up to the task.  His contacts in
the state education ministry contrived to divert me to a coastal
village school where, among Malays, I could of course do no harm.
Sadly, the Federal ministry intervened and I wound up at one of the
premier schools of the country (the only squash courts north of
Singapore...; staff vs. prefects rugby and cricket and other trials.
-- 
Michael L. Siemon			"I know of nothing -- I suspect
					not even death -- that is so fixed
mls@usl.com				in the present tense as love."
standard disclaimer					-- Jess Anderson
From: manes@bu-pub.bu.edu (Michelle Manes)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Literary Canon
Keywords: Greeks race Rooney-foolishness
Date: 31 Aug 92 14:09:16 GMT
Organization: Boston University

In article <1992Aug28.182024.18318@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca>, marcy@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca (Marcy Thompson) writes:
|> In a recent rec.arts.books article, Michael Sean Rooney wrote:
|> 
|> >Sorry, Clayton, but claiming that the classical Greeks were
|> >"indisputably white" is indisputably stupid.  Quod erat demonstratum.
|> 
|> Sorry, Michael, but you're wrong. The definition of caucasian used by
|> anthropologists includes Turks, Arabs, Iranians, East Indians and
|> plenty of other people whose skin may be very, very dark.
|> 
|> I agree with Mark; Clayton was using the word "white" to mean "caucasian".
|> 
|> He was right in what he implied, too. If you are looking for minority
|> representation in the literary canon, the Greeks don't count. For any
|> number of reasons.


Okay, I accept that he meant Caucasian and not white.
And I accept that Greeks are technically Caucasian.
But now this is getting complicated.  I'm not an anthropologist
(no, really Michelle?  you seem so knowledgable...), but
I would assume Mexicans are also Caucasian.  So they don't
count for minority representation in the literary canon?
But they count for minority representation in just about
every other sphere of American life?  

Sigh...I think I'll go post something about a book...

michelle
-- 
Michelle Manes		|	"What should I be when I grow up?"
manes@bass.bu.edu	|	"Honest."
			|	-Robert M. Pirsig
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: ve3pak@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Alayne McGregor and Brett Delmage)
Subject: Re: Sea Stories 
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC., Orleans (Ont)
Distribution: usa, uk
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 02:18:31 GMT
Keywords: Ramage, Dudley Pope

In article <1992Aug27.143223.24083@sunova.ssc.gov> renfro@geewhiz.ssc.gov (James Renfro) writes:
>
>I cannot recall ever seeing Dudley Pope titles in my local Daltons, or  
>Waldenbook store, however every lover of Hornblower books will find Pope's  
>stories interesting, even if his main and title character, "Ramage", is usually  
>getting in trouble with the Admiralty, and is always in the famous and historic  
>event, a key player, but known only to us, and a few of the First Lord's  
>closest associates.  "Ramage" stories are great fun reading for one, like me,  
>who have run out of fresh stories of sailors and sailing ships in the 18th  
>century.  
>
>For anybody in the UK, I would be interested in learning if Dudley Pope has any  
>recently (within the past 3 years) published any new titles.  I have the first  
>sixteen titles of his "Ramage" books, thanks to my wife's family in the UK who,  
>until recently, looked for new titles to send me.  Lately, however, they have  
>given up in frustration because there is never a new Pope book in the  
>bookshops.  Does anybody know what, if anything, Dudley Pope is writing  
>presently?  

I haven't seen any new Ramage books here in Canada for at least three years,
and the new titles used to be prominently displayed in the new books sections
of libraries and bookstores here.

I grew tired of the Ramage series after the first six or seven. Too formulaic,
even though the battle scenes were well done.

Alayne McGregor
alayne@ve3pak.ocunix.on.ca
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Clayton's Bibliography
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:30:17 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <14808@mindlink.bc.ca>, Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian) writes:
> Clayton Cramer observes that he puts more effort into writing the books and
> article for which he's paid, rather than the charitable donations he makes to
> Usenet. I'd appreciate a bibliography; if we can go to the Serious Work,
> perhaps we can come to a more reasoned judgement on the quality of his thought.

Books:

    By The Dim and Flaring Lamps: The Civil War Diaries of Samuel McIlvaine
    edited by Clayton E. Cramer

    ISBN: 0-912526-46-7
    published by Library Research Associates, Monroe, NY (1990)

   For The Defense Of Themselves and the State: The Original Intent
   and Judicial Interpretation of the Right To Keep And Bear Arms
   
   Hollowbrook Publishing, Durango, CO (this year, late)

Articles:

   "Spare Tires Cause Flats!", Reason, June (?), 1984

   "Murder in California", American Rifleman, June, 1990

   "State Constitutions and the Second Amendment", American Rifleman,
   February, 1992

Two articles will be appearing (with luck) in the 9/92 and 10/92
issues of American Rifleman, one on the disparities in punishments
under California laws, and another on the effects of California's
handgun waiting law.


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: vrkaramc@mtu.edu (Karamchedu)
Subject: Lawrence Durrell
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 04:02:56 GMT


Justine, Balthazar, Clea, Naroum, Julian, Nessim, Felix, Tunc, Nunquam, Price of
Darkness, Melissa, Alexandria, Toby, Benedicta, Mountolive.................

Do they strike any chord in anyone's mind ?.............. 

Why don't some one thread this post ?


Raj

Dept of Electrical Engg   


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: fehr@ms.uky.edu (Jeff Davis)
Subject: Re: Life's too short. Was: 1930s Science Fiction
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 12:58:08 GMT
Organization: The Gizmonic Institute

Dan'l DanehyOakes writes:
>[I wrote and was mis-attributed to Tom Maddox]
>>I've tried for almost 12 seconds to come up with a broader umbrella for
>>science fiction than man's relationship to science and can't. Please
>>enlighten me. 
>
        
    [A thoughtful and only occasionally insulting article on the 
      uses and realms of science fiction deleted]

I thank you. Eleanor thanks you. And my dog Falla thanks you.
I believe this thread can no claim to have served its purpose.

-- 
Jeff Davis <davis@keats.ca.uky.edu> Write when you get the chance. 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith)
Subject: Re: Patrick O'Brien vs Horatio Hornblower...
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 23:20:06 GMT

John Nall writes:
	Being a devoted Hornblower fan, I immediately rushed down to
	the local Public Library and found three books on the shelf by
	O'Brien.  Pictures of sailing ships and such on the cover.  Oh,
	boy! Couldn't wait!
	
	Well.....I was sadly disappointed ...
	I thought that the O'Brien books were not even in the same
	ballback as the Hornblower series with regard to fast-moving action,
	vivid descriptions of life at sea, etc., etc.

	Why am I posting this?  Hell, I don't know.  Seems like I should
	tell *someone* what I thought about it.  




I'm glad you told me.  I too was (am) a Hornblower fan and have given
serious though to rereading the series.  When someone first posted about
O'Brien I put him on my to-read list.  When a couple of other people 
posted that he wasn`t up to Forester, I moved him down a notch.

With your post, I think he'll slip a little more until I clear the
decks of other to-read items.  (notice the nautical reference).

Some technical management book I read in the last few years had
a reference to Hornblower.   It may have been "Peopleware"
by Lister and DeMarco.  They were discussing Hornblower's management
style where he observes new individuals under his command and then
decides what level of responsibility he can trust them with.  In
time of crisis Hornblower has his response team ready with the "right"
people.

Reading that after all the years since I'd read a Hornblower made me
want to get "Middshipman Hornblower" and start at the beginning of
the series.


Willia Sburgfort Smith
Intel, SSD
From: mfc1493@venus.tamu.edu (Ratboy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Chuck Rosenthal
Date: 29 Aug 92 21:09:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: venus.29AUG199216091266
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Anyone out there read anything by Chuck Rosenthal? I love his writing and 
think he's very underrated. Granted, he has only three books out, and one not
in print anymore, but he writes in a style similar to James Thurber, but loaded
with cynicism for the future and the present. Highly recommended.

I am also looking for anyone who has read Rosenthal's latest--Loop's End.
It is the third, and perhaps final, book in the "Chronicles of Jarvis Loop".
Is it as good as the others?

Ratboy
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,rec.arts.sf.misc