HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Hindu "creation science"? (was Re: I visited the ICR in pers)
Organization: in San Antonio, I was expecting horse d'ouvers and cowboy boots
	<1992Sep9.105236.133@s1.gov> <1992Sep9.175740.12490@ncsu.edu>
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 20:44:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.175740.12490@ncsu.edu> 
cmgrawbu@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER M GRAWBURG) writes:
>The creation account that you will get from the Bhaktivedanta Institute 
>(better known as the Hare Krishnas) is the same as the Hindu account.

And as most are aware, the Hare Krishnas are the Hindu equivalent of the
Christian fundamentalist/evangelicals/TVministry/moral-majority. Interestingly
enough, both have their stongholds in the US for some strange reason. The
similarity is that Madison Avenue rules, so caveat emptor, buyer beware,
and watch out for those free gifts. The owls are not what they seem.

>Visnu is asleep on his throne of 1000 headed cobra when from his navel
>a lotus grows. The lotus blossoms and in the lotus is Lord Bramha.
>Bramha creates the the world. The world will last 4.2 billion years
>(1 day of Bramha) Vishnu awakens and rules the world.
>Vishnu is about to return to sleep when Shiva dances a dance that destroys
>all things. Now ALL things are absorbed back into Vishnu and he returns
>to sleep.

And the cycle begins again. Cycles upon cycles. Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva is the
Hindu trinity that is the manifestation of the ONE transcendent. (Sound
familiar Christians?) Brahma is the creator, Vishnu is the sustainer, Shiva
is the destroyer. The US scientist, R. Oppenheimer said, "I have become
Shiva, destroyer of worlds", on watching the first Atomic bomb blast which
he created. Krishna is a personification of the transcendent, much like the
Christian Christ or Jesus or Yeshua. But, in Hinduism, Krishna never says
whether he/she represents Vishnu or Shiva, perhaps Krishna did not know.
But Krishna urges that all do the right thing. This right thing is not
defined by Krishna, because he/she can not. It is you who must do the right
thing for you, as only you know how. And Krishna could dance, and so could 
Shiva. In one hand, Shiva beats the drum of time, all while standing on the
back of a human with the face of a child, who doesn't seem to be aware of
all that goes on above, of the weight or lack of weight on back, or the
inevitable fate of all life. And that is the greatest miracle.

>Chris (one of the "Christian Fundamentalists...who deny all gods but
>      theirs)

Yes, but you believe in a single transcendent. The transcendent is the
transcendent, transcendent of number and beliefs. Your one right way is the
one right way, ... for you. Your perceptions are your perceptions, valid in
your eyes. Just do the right thing, as only you know how. Words are only
words, perceptions are only perceptions. He that you call Jesus or Yeshua,
I can call Krishna. None of this effects the transcendent. Worlds above
and worlds below, no one in the world like me.
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: There are two years left!
Date: 10 Sep 92 18:54:10 GMT
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc
Organization: Apple

In article <67876@hydra.gatech.EDU>, rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard
Pitts) wrote:
> In article <ksand-080992173152@wintermute.apple.com> ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:
> >I do think that trinity can't be really explained with notions
> >from the Gospels, mostly because it was an invention defined long
> >time after gospels were written.
> 
> What about the wrapping up message Jesus gave, you know Matthew 28:18-20,
> to go make disciples and baptized them in THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF
> THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?
 
> Note it is THE name, which is singular, and yet there are three.

He didn't say to baptize in the name of the holy trinity, or what. 
Is it mention anywhere in the Gospesl (holy trinity?).

> Also, what about when Jesus was baptized and the Holy Spirit descended
> on him and the voice from heaven said this is my son.  Note: Holy Spirit,
> Jesus (the Son) and the Father, the voice which spoke and was apart from
> the Holy Spirit of God and the Son of God.  Three again.

Same logical problem again, where do you see the words "Holy trinity"
mentioned. I don't see 'em. Anyway, I don't see a connection between
three entities separately doing things, and suddenly there's a
magical interconnection. It clearly shows that we have three things,
that's sure.

Cheers,
Kent

"I would rather have a thousands idiots attacking my position, than
have one idiot helping to defend it."	[Paraphrased from Voltaire]
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.
Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:16182 talk.religion.newage:4356 sci.skeptic:16419
From: draper@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu (E.J. Draper)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: The Adam and Eve Thing
Date: 14 Sep 1992 18:05:44 GMT
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc
Organization: U.T.M.D. Anderson Cancer Center
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
X-XXMessage-ID: <A6DA3E3E5901019A@mdarpi1.mda.uth.tmc.edu>
X-XXDate: Mon, 14 Sep 92 13:03:58 GMT


I have but one thing to say in regards to your long-winded discussion of
space aliens etcetera:

____ EXTRAORDINARY CLAIMS REQUIRE EXTRAORDINARY EVIDENCE ____


      |E|J-  ED DRAPER
 rEpar|D|<-  Radiologic/Pathologic Institute
             The University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center
             draper@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu
From: rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: There are two years left!
Date: 15 Sep 92 13:19:06 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <1992Sep14.201052.16393@linus.mitre.org> m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
|In article <68149@hydra.gatech.EDU> rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
|}In article <1992Sep14.161647.7312@linus.mitre.org> m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
|}>In article <68019@hydra.gatech.EDU> rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
|}>}Let me ask you this question, Mr. Meritt, HOW HOW HOW do you know the
|}>}end came, since according to you all that saw it have left?  Obviously,
|}>}you lump yourself into the unworthy bunch, since you are still here.
|}>
|}>I did it myself.  I'm God.  Didn't you know that?  If you don't agree, I
|}>extend to you the same challenge as last year: prove I'm not.
|}
|}Make the pencil on my office table write your name on the yellow pad
|}on top of my printer.  The pad is blank and the pencil is sharp and has 
|}an eraser, in case you make a mistake.  You are claiming to be an all
|}powerful god, aren't you?
|
|Sorry, but I don't do parlor tricks any wore than that upstart faker Yahweh.
|Don't you know that you are not support to tempt god?

Good answer - however, what can you suggest I request that you do to
prove you are god?  Could you try to get executed (via cruxifiction, if
possible) for supposedly starting a insurrection (political move) and
then on the third day be seen in a flesh and bone body which can 
transcend matter (i.e., go through walls)?  Or what do you propose as
your proof?

Oh, by the way, Yahweh considers the witness of His Son, Jesus the Christ,
as the only sign we need - PEOPLE STILL DON'T BELIEVE EVEN THOUGH HE
ROSE FROM THE DEAD, as he said they would not.

For Christ and His Kingdom,
Richard Pitts


-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu       |    
Atlanta, GA                --|-- 
                        -|-  |  -|-
                         |   |   |
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,talk.religion.newage
From: tensmekl@infonode.ingr.com (Kermit Tensmeyer)
Subject: Re: JW humor
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 13:17:13 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.115326.22102@cs.joensuu.fi> asiivo@cs.joensuu.fi (Antti Siivonen) writes:
>>  You dismiss others response as "rubbish" and now you been caught calling
>>  someone on the net as being filled to the brim with _shit_.
>
>	Not true. I only said that Kent was stubborn. 

  That wasn't quite what you said was it.   Truth   _Not_!
>
>>  Now do _you_ think that you have been misquoted or taken out of context?
>
>	Partly yes, partly no. 
>
>>  I simply wish to make the point that the vast majority of the JW's should
>>  not be "tarred with the same brush".  To assume that you know anything
>>  about Christianity, JW's and/or Biology would require a massive "Leap of
>>  Faith", that frankly could not be otherwise justified.
>
>	I don't have any hint how I could support your demands. 


  Boy is that an obvious statement, you haven't got a clue!


>
>		Andreas - Siperian Sirri   Siberian Stint



-- 
         Kermit Tensmeyer                         | Intergraph Corporation
Life is sometimes a bowl of Cherries; Watch out for the pits;
   klt@kt8127.b23a.ingr.com                       | 
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: asiivo@cs.joensuu.fi (Antti Siivonen)
Subject: Re: JW humor
Organization: University of Joensuu
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 11:45:45 GMT

	Nevertheless, you are hopelessly stubborn, Kent. 

-- 

		Andreas - Siperian Sirri   Siberian Stint

	No ITU, love, evolution.           Tuusniemi ! Siis imein suut !
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard)
Subject: Re: There are two years left!
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 06:15:00 GMT

How many times was the world supposed to end this century :-)

Atleast these myths are somewhat useful, when the world fails to end as
predicted people are actually forced to reconsider blind irrational
faith.

-- 
------          Join the Pythagorean Reform Church!               .
\    /        Repent of your evil irrational numbers             . .
 \  /   and bean eating ways. Accept 10 into your heart!        . . .
  \/   Call the Pythagorean Reform Church BBS at 508-793-9568  . . . .
    
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: johnson@whitewater.chem.wisc.edu (Arthur Johnson)
Subject: Re: Sean gets his reply (finally) [A.Johnson thread]
Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, UW-Madison
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 00:13:24 GMT

     The book entitled "The Deification of Man" is written by Georgios  
Mantzaridis. Both it and Lossky's book are published by St. Vladimir's  
Seminary Press (Crestwood, N.Y., 10707). One more book that I would highly   
recommend is "The Orthodox Way" by Kallistos Ware. Fr. Ware has a nice  
writing style, and I have a feeling that his book might strike a few  
chords with you, Sean. As an example of what I mean, Fr. Ware includes the  
following quote from "The Sayings of the Desert Fathers":

     "One day some of the brethren came to see Abba Antony,
      and among them was Abba Joseph. Wishing to test them,
      the old man mentioned a text from Scripture, and 
      starting with the youngest he asked them what it meant.
      Each explained it as best he could. But to each one
      the old man said, 'You have not yet found the answer.'
      Last of all he said to Abba Joseph, 'And what do you
      think the text means?' He replied, 'I do not know.'
      Then Abba Antony said, 'Truly, Abba Joseph has found
      the way, for he said: I do not know.'" (p. 12)

Just thought you might enjoy that one, Sean. :-) 

Arthur Johnson
johnson@offroad.chem.wisc.edu
 
"O Lord and Master of my life, take from me the spirit of sloth, despair,  
lust of power, and idle talk. But give rather the spirit of chastity,  
humility, patience, and love to Your servant. Yea, O Lord and King, grant  
me to see my own sins, and not to judge my brother, for You are blessed    
unto ages of ages. Amen" -- Lenten Prayer of St. Ephraim the Syrian
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: The problem of evil (reply to Steve Adams) LONG!
Date: 5 Sep 92 21:35:34 GMT
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc
Organization: Apple

In article <adams.715465159@spssig>, adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) wrote:
> ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:
> >Anyway, I still interested to know your point of if free will implies
> >sinning, and if God has free will, how did he achieve this gift if
> >the ground rules are based on sinning. Someone as powerful as God
> >must have sinned as well, or even God, in order create this precious
> >feature.
 
> The simple, concise answer is that God is perfect while we are not.  It is
> not possible for God to sin (ie how can he work against his own will or
> seperate himself from himself)?

In other words, the supposedly omnipotent God is so perfect that he
is not able to sin. While humans are so inperfect they could do things
God can't. Isn't that special!

Cheers,
Kent
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Faith vs. Reason
Date: 6 Sep 92 20:28:41 GMT
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc
Organization: Apple

In article <1992Sep6.043203.5226@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>,
prasanth@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Ravi K. Prasanth) wrote:
> Krishna does not claim that his (Karma Yoga) is the only way or
> that without believing in him, one cannot attain salvation (if
> I may use that word). In fact, Hindu belief is that *ALL* paths
> (including that of a Christian) lead to God. 

The problem with Christianity is that it will never accept this
notion of alternate realizations. "I am the way"... Then again
I guess it's hard for Christians to counter-argue why Hindus
accept Christianity, while Christians don't tolerate Hinduism.

It's maybe a question of open-mindness.

Kent

"I would rather have a thousands idiots attacking my position, than
have one idiot helping to defend it."	[Paraphrased from Voltaire]
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: johnson@offroad.chem.wisc.edu (Arthur Johnson)
Subject: Re: Islamic stories...
Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 16:26:52 GMT

In article <laok3iINNnet@pollux.usc.edu> aabdalla@pollux.usc.edu (Ahmed  
Abd-Allah) writes:
> In article <1992Sep6.032304.3950@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu>  
johnson@offroad.chem.wisc.edu (Arthur Johnson) writes:

     [...stuff deleted...]
 
> >     I want to make a few additional comments. The last couple of posts  
> >have been devoted to the issue of creation and the six day vs. eight  
day  
> >controversy. This has left me with a mild case of vertigo, meaning that  
> >it's definitely time for a reality check. Being an evolutionary  
> >biologist/chemist, it is _very_ clear to me that earth and the heavens  
> >were most certainly _not_ created in either six days or eight days, but  
> >over a period of several billion years. Thus [41:9-12], [10:3], [11:7],  
> >and [7:54] are in contradiction with the facts of reality (so is  
Genesis  
> >1, btw). Whenever I find a contradiction, I always try to check my  
> >premises. In light of this, Muslim scholars may want to check some of  
> >their premises as well.    
> 
> They do not need to.  Please see my earlier posting on the Qur'an and  
science
> to this newsgroup (do you want an email copy?).  The Qur'an makes it  
quite 
> clear that a 'Day' in the sight of God can mean periods of time far  
longer
> than the standard 24 hours - unlike Genesis 1.  To get you started, if  
you
> don't want a copy of my posting, see verses [22:47], [32:5], and [70:4]  
for
> three different contexts where God uses 'Day' to designate a very long  
period
> of time.  

     I missed your earlier posting, Ahmed. By all means, either send me an  
e-mail copy or repost it here (I'll be sure not to miss it). I want to  
check a couple other translations in addition to Dawood before commenting  
on 'ayam' as 'days' and 'a long time'.
 
> 
> Ahmed Abd-Allah

Arthur Johnson
johnson@offroad.chem.wisc.edu
From: rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: There are two years left!
Date: 14 Sep 92 18:19:15 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <1992Sep14.161647.7312@linus.mitre.org> m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
>In article <68019@hydra.gatech.EDU> rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
>}Let me ask you this question, Mr. Meritt, HOW HOW HOW do you know the
>}end came, since according to you all that saw it have left?  Obviously,
>}you lump yourself into the unworthy bunch, since you are still here.
>
>I did it myself.  I'm God.  Didn't you know that?  If you don't agree, I
>extend to you the same challenge as last year: prove I'm not.

Make the pencil on my office table write your name on the yellow pad
on top of my printer.  The pad is blank and the pencil is sharp and has 
an eraser, in case you make a mistake.  You are claiming to be an all
powerful god, aren't you?

Sincerely,
Richard Pitts

-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu       |    
Atlanta, GA                --|-- 
                        -|-  |  -|-
                         |   |   |
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Faith vs. Reason
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<1992Sep5.011908.19908@en.ecn.purdue.edu>
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 07:05:22 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.011908.19908@en.ecn.purdue.edu> 
muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen) writes:
>Burning oneself to prove ones worthiness is foolish suicide that does not
>please God AT ALL and if I may say so does not exhibit faith....
>I am absolutely sure that I do not need to do such things to prove it to
>myself or God.  This is the best example of trying to "get to God" on ones
>own merit.  Faith comes from humility.  Its not "look at me" but rather "look
>at God".  If a Christian was successful they would be separated from God
>because they obviously did not understand or accept His free gift of grace.
>'Nough said.
>There is a big difference between faith and stupidity, and I only apply it
>(faith) to one thing: that Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and
>man, and the joy of my life (both now and "after").

I see, so you prefer death by nailing to a cross, or do you prefer
someone else do the dying for you? Why do you cling to the evil flesh of
humanity, are you a closet humanist?
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.kibology,alt.business.multi-level
From: lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard)
Subject: Re: Pythagorean Reform Church
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 22:29:56 GMT

In article <ednclark.715581681@kraken> ednclark@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Jeffrey Clark) writes:
>
>>With the divine guidance of 4 I am starting the Pythagorean Reform
>>church to spread the Gospel far and wide. With the guidance of 4
>>I hope we can soon bring the message to the world over the PBN
>>(Pythagorean Broadcasting Network).
>
>Oh, all mighty representative of the supreme 4, please give FOURth your
>learned wisdom to a FOURthright sinner who has been eating beans since 
>early childhood (original sin?). I repent of my irrational ways and realise
>I can never live up to the supreme example set by your WHOLEly self.
>FOURgive me!! unFOURtunately there are many unbeleivers in this continent of
>which I cannot be more ashamed. Could I also, most WHOLEly one, ask that you
>allow me, a most unworthy subject, the right to spread your gospel in this
>dark land. (i.e. How much of tithe do you want so I can still live on the
>donations to the church under the guise of a social service).

Yes now you can have the best of both worlds. Gain followers to the
one true religion while earning money, with our new "get rich fast"
from network spiritual marketing!

You recieve 25% of all donations you collect, and 12.5% of all donations by
followers you convert and so on. Join now to get in on at the top of the
best MLM business in history!  

-- 
------          Join the Pythagorean Reform Church!               .
\    /        Repent of your evil irrational numbers             . .
 \  /   and bean eating ways. Accept 10 into your heart!        . . .
  \/   Call the Pythagorean Reform Church BBS at 508-793-9568  . . . .
    
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard)
Subject: Re: Christians at Work in Oregon
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 20:21:07 GMT

In article <adams.715654881@spssig> adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
><SECBH@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>
>>Let's hear it for Jesus: Sig heil!  Sig heil!  Sig heil!
>
>1. This is unfair...tarring all Christians with this.  Some of us
>   reject entirely the ideas that these groups in Oregon have.
>
>2. Some of us Christians do not object to equal treatment and fairness
>   to all people.  Some of us ardently support it.
>
>3. At least learn how to spell 'sieg heil'.

This is true.

But where are the Christians speaking out against OCA?
-- 
------          Join the Pythagorean Reform Church!               .
\    /        Repent of your evil irrational numbers             . .
 \  /   and bean eating ways. Accept 10 into your heart!        . . .
  \/   Call the Pythagorean Reform Church BBS at 508-793-9568  . . . .
From: kalki@lakes.trenton.sc.us (kalki)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Various Religions    
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 92 03:48:21 EDT
X-Maildoor: WaflineMail 1.00r

RW>>So solely on the grounds of thinking that the Bible contains
RW>>fiction, Christians are not distinguished from those of other
RW>>religions, nor from atheists.

RW>Well, sure, that's true, but then almost every book contains both truth
RW>and fiction.  The point is that the central messages of the Bible, e.g.
RW>that God exists and appeared on Earth as Jesus and so forth, are considered
RW>true by Christians and false by atheists.  Incidental errors in passing
RW>(like where it says in effect that pi = 3) aren't significant to
RW>reasonable Christians just as historical truths (like mentioning that
RW>certain ancient cities existed) aren't significant to atheists.

Curious about your opinion: if "almost" every book contains
both truth and fiction, which book(s) contain only truth? only fiction?
(Already have answer, but looking for people with sanity enough to
discuss the Personality of Godhead).
---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Kalki's Infoline, 803-643-3172, Aiken, SC, USA
                                          
Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:16188 alt.atheism:17173
From: martin@pharaoh.cyborg.bt.co.uk (Martin Gorman)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Jesus & the Sin of the World
Date: 14 Sep 92 11:59:55 GMT
Organization: British Telecom

emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery) writes:

>Yet at the same time I was perplexed by my seemingly overreacting response.
>Why did it matter?  Why couldn't I just brush it off as I would an 
>encyclopedia salesman?  I couldn't!  
>
One has to ask if recently an encyclopedia salesman has suggested that
you are fundamentally evil and that you will go to hell if you don't
beg his forgiveness? If not this could explain the differing severity of
response.

>And yet, when I really thought about it, I was not being very honest with
>the guy.  I had done plenty of things that I was ashamed of (ya know, the
>ole skeletons in the closet).  And I had told him that I had not committed
>any crimes.  Yet not too long earlier, I had let a friend of mine talk me
>into stealing something.  I was not innocent but I didn't want anyone to
>
The chap was playing on your guilt. Fostering a complex and then 
exploiting it - like spot lotion ads on TV. He could have suggested
that you would be a happier and more complete person if you accepted
your faults as part of yourself because you are not perfect and nothing
else is either, but that would not help him as it wouldn't 
threaten you into his sad sect.