HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tsang@cs.washington.edu (Donald Tsang)
Subject: Re: PLEASE answer these non-newbie questions.
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 20:18:16 GMT

In article <> hde+@CS.CMU.EDU (Herbert Enderton) writes:
>Nobody should play without a borg on a borgs-allowed server, except
>to see how well they can do unassisted against them.  It bugs me to see
>all the clueless players playing blessed clients on borg hours.  Human
>hours must be 100% human, and borg hours should be nearly 100% borgs.
>Otherwise the game just gets stupid.

With too many clueless players, the game is *always* stupid.  There are
very few reasons a clued player shouldn't play a standard client on
borgs-allowed servers.

-----
There is also a difference between a borgs-allowed server and a
borg-friendly server.

scrod.cs.washington.edu allows borgs (for now), but certain features of
borgs just don't work well (phasering plasmas at long range, autophaser
at short range, ...).  In fact, the way combat is done on scrod is
contrary to the programming of most borgs.  Info-borgs don't hurt any,
though.
-----

Myself, I think plasmas should be removed from borg-friendly servers.
They do no good, other than to waste borg fuel...

>There were only one or two borgs [on bronco], and naturally, people were
>bitching about them.  Except for me, I was bitching at all the people
>that didn't have borgs and also didn't have the good sense to phaser
>the enemies right next to them.  If you can't take the heat, get
>out of the kitchen.

Enh.  I specifically hunt down borgs ('cept borg SB's, which I
harrass), going into "fight Guardian" mode.  If the borg-player is
generally clueless, he plays Pac-Man and blows up.  It takes me awhile,
though, since they usually run (BB running from DD).  Vector off at
30-45 degree angles, warp 4-5, switching directions on each torp
stream, and fire a few torps where the slow, lumbering ships will
be as they fire their streams.

Most borg players are generally clueless.  Running borgs doesn't help
their clue, either.  In fact, it generally cripples it for life.

-- 
Donald Tsang                    "Ho!  Haha!  Guard!  Turn!  Parry!  Dodge!
tsang@june.cs.washington.edu     Spin!  Ha!  Thrust!"
..!uw-beaver!june!tsang                       -- Robin Hood Daffy
Xref: sparky alt.games.xtrek:3749 rec.games.netrek:786
From: leonard@mimsy.umd.edu (Leonard Dickens)
Newsgroups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.games.netrek
Subject: UDP INL server test: post-game show
Keywords: UDP INL
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:48:43 GMT
Followup-To: alt.games.xtrek
Organization: Universal Export Ltd, Regent's Park, London

The game started a little after 8:00 pm; with the away team (Reagan's
Agents) choosing Roms, and the home team (Team Turnover), headed by
our illustrious captain home1, selecting Feds.

The feds got off to a quick start, capitalizing on our 10-4 player
advantage.  The game was then briefly held up while Reagan's Agents
complained about this, people called for a restart and embittered
people bagged out.  Eventually, teams were more or less evened out,
and the game restarted.

Progress was uneven throughout the game, as people joined and quit on
both sides.  Neither base was ogged until late in the game.  It is
apparent that the Turnovers' base, Wreck, is pretty much the best at
basing, even better with one hand tied behind his back than Grim
Reaper, Balton and Streaker put together on a good day.  He racked up
some 90+ kills before gloriously ogging the Agents' base at Romulus,
destroying it and several other ships in the massive explosions that
ensued.

After the Agents' base died, the Turnovers were quickly able to take
two of their remaining 3 planets, leaving them Romulus in order to keep
*some* challenge in the game.  Finally, it was secretly decided among
the Turnovers to intentionally not take Rom, to make the Agents feel
better after their horrific pounding.

Team Turnover is obviously a superior team; we could easily beat Akira
if they dared to face us, even if they were to ditch that wimp Akira
and replace him with that serious dude Streaker.  The horsemen of the
apocolypse blanche before our onslaught.  Even Team Penn itself must
give way to the volume of our mouths.

-Leonard

[Note: followup if at all directed to alt.games.xtrek.  I concur with
whoever it was that posted the idea that we should keep drivelous
boasting type posts there, and reserve rec.games.netrek for posts of
more general interest.]
From: aldavi01@STARBASE.SPD.LOUISVILLE.EDU (Arlie Davis)
Newsgroups: alt.games.xtrek
Subject: Re: Scouts BITE!!!!!
Date: 7 Apr 92 03:37:01 GMT

In <72900@netnews.upenn.edu> botelle@widget.seas.upenn.edu (Justin R. Botelle) writes:

>In article <1992Apr6.090855.27088@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>>Scouts are nirvana.

>SCOUTS ARE FOR GIRLY-MEN!!!!!

I'll take a girly-man in a scout any day.  One night one of our teams played
in nothing but scouts for about 10 minutes, and changed the entire direction
of the game (in their favor, of course).


Xref: sparky alt.games.xtrek:3721 rec.games.netrek:557
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: PLEASE answer these non-newbie questions.
Date: 11 Apr 92 20:17:27 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <s6ijgINNjkk@agate.berkeley.edu> tom@ocf.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:
>I play at 4 updates no matter where I'm playing; I find that my timing 
>can get screwed up if I switch around.  I was playing at bronco
>tonight, and I will say that UDP is an improvement; on a good connection
>(say, 80-150 ms ping times and 2% packet loss) it can seem almost
>like it's local.  My 3/50 definitely got more overloaded than usual
>when many torps were on the screen, but this may not have been 
>UDP's fault.  

There's no need to guess at packet loss.  Just leave the UDP options window
open and it'll tell you.

If you weren't using fat UDP, the volume of torps shouldn't matter.  There
appears to be a slight degradation in performance overall because of
increased overhead, but it shouldn't swamp you.  It might be more efficient
overall for players on weak machines to play w/o fat UDP, and then just
request a full update when things slow down a bit.

Note to Terence: maybe you should drop the Fat UDP threshold to 400 bytes
for a couple of days and see if anybody notices a difference?

> -Mojo

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
Xref: sparky alt.games.xtrek:3649 rec.games.netrek:173
From: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
Newsgroups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Newbie FAQ
Date: 6 Apr 1992 08:03:41 GMT
Organization: The Sinister Icy Black Hand of Death Club
Distribution: na
Reply-To: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hailstorm.berkeley.edu
Originator: goldfarb@hailstorm.berkeley.edu

In article <rivc7INNfer@agate.berkeley.edu> tom@ocf.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:
)The Scam sources are the sources from scam.berkeley.edu, the original
)archive site.  Also know as "plain vanilla."  These are probably
)good sites for a beginner; bezier and calvin are the best places
)amongst them to find t-mode.

	One slight note: calvin.usc.edu is not *quite* plain vanilla.
Torps fired out the rear 60 degrees (or out of some narrow rear arc,
anyway) increase weapon temp. proportionally to your warp speed. This
is intended to cut down on runner scumming. In my experience, it doesn't
actually change the game much.

Rear Admiral Zach Paleozogt
-- 
David Goldfarb    goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu   (Insert standard disclaimer)
"Baldrick, you wouldn't know a cunning plan if it came up, bit you on the
behind, and sang three choruses of a song set to the tune of 'I am a Pirate 
King' called 'I am a Cunning Plan'."
Organization: Freshman, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.games.netrek
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 20:54:41 -0400 
From: "John O. Kim" <jk5x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: PLEASE answer these non-newbie questions.
	<2316@news.duke.edu>

HI all,

Question 1
>1)  Is UDP worth it?  I've downloaded one of the preliminary clients,
>and I found no change in lag at Bronco.  Does it make a difference?
>I'm so used to lag that when I tried 7 updates at Duke's home game, I
>couldn't hack it and had to go back to 5...

    It made a difference to me when I played on bigdog the other day
where we a a short tourney where the CMU'ers were Feds and Berkeleites
where Rom....We got them down to their core but could do no better
because they were some really good oggers on their team.....Back to the
question....Yes there was a difference.

Question 2
>2)  Do detting an enemy team's torps on their ships do them damage?
>I've never noticed it doing this.  This could prove veerrryy
>interesting.

    Detting torps do damage to the detter and the enemies except for the
shooter depending on the distance of the torp from the ship.

Question 3
>3)  Why post places where one get a borg client?  When I was on RWD
>one night, and I, MUCUS, West, and Willy, were the only ones left,
>we checked Bronco for borgs.  Too many.  Obviously, people DO play
>borgs, but why can't there be MORE HUMAN servers?  Many clueful
>players (not all by any standard) prefer to play human.  I AM NOT
>trying to restart this old controversey...I'll just kill articles
>concerning the ethics of borgs :).

    I have two statements to that......Borgs SUX....I lose respect for
people who use borgs

Question 4
>4)  Is there any possible way to beat an extremely clueful BB without
>running away at an angle and pressoring, while firing torps and
>phasering?  I'm talking about those annoying guys like OffensiveTackle
>who just rush you at warp 8... :)

:) :) :)  (: (: (:
    Well, Since I play OffensiveTackle I wouldn't like to give away tips
beat me...But instead of warping away shooting torps and
pressoring....Most ships will die....Best solution....Stay away from me
:)

    One last note to OffensiveTackle....I didn't invent the
method....Hugh Moore did(aka Human Target)....I have just adopted and
use to my greatest advantage.

Admiral Yea Boy!!!!!
Rear Adm. Yea Boy!!!!!(Bezier)
Commodore OffensiveTackle




Xref: sparky alt.games.xtrek:3724 rec.games.netrek:566
From: bathurst@noaapmel.gov (Bill Bathurst)
Newsgroups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.games.netrek
Subject: Lagg U waxed by team wizard
Date: 12 Apr 92 00:58:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: felix.BATHURST.92Apr11165825
Organization: NOAA/PMEL, Sand Point Way, Seattle, WA


In a scrimmage game Team Wizard Genocided team Lagg U in 1:30 minutes.  They
had their way with us.  They crushed us.  The sad fact of it was they didn't
have their standard team members.  It was fun for us to play the best and we
are looking forward to our official game this next friday.   If their are
any other teams out there that want to play scrimmage games let us know.  We
are in the process of trying to gain a clue as a team.  Right now we are 
not a good team.  Clue suggestions would be helpfull (:

Captain diediediedie "Captain of Team Lagg U"

--
Bill Bathurst				Internet:	bathurst@noaapmel.gov 
NOAA/PMEL				Phone:		(206) 526-6765
Newsgroups: alt.games.xtrek
From: spot@CS.CMU.EDU (Scott Draves)
Subject: Re: UDP INL server test: post-game show
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 18:28:18 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Followup-To: alt.games.xtrek
Originator: spot@FORTRAN.FOX.CS.CMU.EDU

>>>>> On 16 Apr 92 16:48:43 GMT, leonard@mimsy.umd.edu (Leonard Dickens) said:

Leonard> [Note: followup if at all directed to alt.games.xtrek.  I
Leonard> concur with whoever it was that posted the idea that we
Leonard> should keep drivelous boasting type posts there, and reserve
Leonard> rec.games.netrek for posts of more general interest.]

no, keep the boasting here.  if we need more groups, we should CFV and
do it right.  something like

netrek.league
netrek.league.talk
netrek.play
netrek.programming
netrek.misc

-- 
			conform
scott draves		deform
spot@cs.cmu.edu		explode
Xref: sparky alt.games.xtrek:3663 rec.games.netrek:204
From: jnelson@lpl.arizona.edu (Jeff Nelson)
Newsgroups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: INL - borgs and bots
Date: 6 Apr 92 22:28:29 GMT
Organization: Lunar & Planetary Laboratory, Tucson AZ.

In article <gdruYfW00VpEIdP15F@andrew.cmu.edu> tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Timothy C. Worsley) writes:
>
>	For the most part no one wanted to allow 'borgs into the INL (what's
>the point?).
>	However, it would be interesting to see 8 fsops play against 8 autopilots.

Exactly.  Why not have an INL division for borgs and another for 'bots?
Personally, I've got a really simple (only slightly more complex than
the one I recently posted) planet attacking robot, and I hope to
drastically improve it as soon as that darn summer vacation finally
starts.  I'd love to play against some other 'bots to see how they
vary, in hopes of improving my own's strategy.

One note... I've cleaned up the posted code for the Attack Planet diff
to robotII and rmove, and if anyone wants a new copy, just e-mail.

					- Jeff
Xref: sparky alt.games.xtrek:3726 rec.games.netrek:569
From: hde+@CS.CMU.EDU (Herbert Enderton)
Newsgroups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Lagg U waxed by team wizard
Date: 12 Apr 92 01:05:28 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University

In article <BATHURST.92Apr11165825@felix.noaapmel.gov>, bathurst@noaapmel.gov (Bill Bathurst) writes:
|> 
|> In a scrimmage game Team Wizard Genocided team Lagg U in 1:30 minutes.  They
|> had their way with us.  They crushed us.  The sad fact of it was they didn't

They genocided you in 90 seconds?  It takes about 50 seconds to fly an assault
ship from Romulus to Vega, 10 seconds to bomb, and another 3 seconds to beam
down armies.  Somehow they each had to have gotten a kill and picked up armies
in the remaining 27 seconds.  Seems unlikely.  Were you cooperating by
flying fast ships up to their front line to give them kills just as they
reached it?

If you all push shift Q at the start it would take 5-10 minutes for them
to genocide you, because they'd have to get their kills from bombing
or from killing M5.  Maybe that's your best bet.

  -- Red Shirt
From: hde+@CS.CMU.EDU (Herbert Enderton)
Newsgroups: alt.games.xtrek
Subject: Re: PLEASE answer these non-newbie questions.
Date: 11 Apr 92 18:31:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Apr11.183107.139311
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University

In article <2316@news.duke.edu>, jhammond@acpub.duke.edu (John Kirk Hammond) writes:
|> 3)  Why post places where one get a borg client?  When I was on RWD
|> one night, and I, MUCUS, West, and Willy, were the only ones left,
|> we checked Bronco for borgs.  Too many.  Obviously, people DO play
|> borgs, but why can't there be MORE HUMAN servers?  Many clueful
|> players (not all by any standard) prefer to play human.  I AM NOT
|> trying to restart this old controversey...I'll just kill articles
|> concerning the ethics of borgs :).

Nobody should play without a borg on a borgs-allowed server, except
to see how well they can do unassisted against them.  It bugs me to see
all the clueless players playing blessed clients on borg hours.  Human
hours must be 100% human, and borg hours should be nearly 100% borgs.
Otherwise the game just gets stupid.

Of course the other reasonable option for borg-haters is to boycott borg
servers.  I couldn't find a humans-only game early this afternoon, because
everybody was on bronco (which allows borgs on weekend afternoons).
There were only one or two borgs in that game, and naturally, people were
bitching about them.  Except for me, I was bitching at all the people
that didn't have borgs and also didn't have the good sense to phaser
the enemies right next to them.  If you can't take the heat, get
out of the kitchen.

 -- Red Shirt
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: alt.games.xtrek
Subject: Re: PLEASE answer these non-newbie questions.
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:52:40 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <2316@news.duke.edu> jhammond@acpub.duke.edu (John Kirk Hammond) writes:
>1)  Is UDP worth it?  I've downloaded one of the preliminary clients,
>and I found no change in lag at Bronco.  Does it make a difference?
>I'm so used to lag that when I tried 7 updates at Duke's home game, I
>couldn't hack it and had to go back to 5...

This may be a silly question, but did you turn UDP on...?

>2)  Do detting an enemy team's torps on their ships do them damage?
>I've never noticed it doing this.  This could prove veerrryy
>interesting.

Yes, but not to the person who fired them, just his (or her) teammates.

>3)  Why post places where one get a borg client?

Because people ask.

>                                                  When I was on RWD
>one night, and I, MUCUS, West, and Willy, were the only ones left,
>we checked Bronco for borgs.  Too many.  Obviously, people DO play
>borgs, but why can't there be MORE HUMAN servers?

I don't understand what this has to do with posting places where you can
get a borg client...  At any rate, there are human-only servers (read the
FAQ for a list).

>4)  Is there any possible way to beat an extremely clueful BB without
>running away at an angle and pressoring, while firing torps and
>phasering?  I'm talking about those annoying guys like OffensiveTackle
>who just rush you at warp 8... :)

Sounds like a fine tactic to me.  Your alternative is to cloak before he gets
a tractor on you and hope he blows off all his fuel trying to hunt for you.
It's pretty easy in a cyborg; I've toasted several BBs before because I could
dodge and shoot at the same time.  This didn't work so well with SFOP, because
he can react much more quickly than a mere mortal.

>-Lance

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
Newsgroups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.games.netrek
From: jch+@cs.cmu.edu (Jonathan Hardwick)
Subject: Re: Galaxy clients (was Re: CLASH OF THE TREK-TITANS '92)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 92 02:12:51 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

epa@cis.ksu.edu (Eric P. Armstrong) writes:
> jch+@cs.cmu.edu (Jonathan Hardwick) writes:
> >epa@cis.ksu.edu (Eric P. Armstrong) writes:
> >> The current client on ftp.cis.ksu.edu:/pub/Games/netrek/galaxy.client.tar.Z
> >> is 100% compatible with standard servers. 
> 
> >But not with standard .xtrekrc's  :-)
> 
> Should be now.  The source is now a modified bronco client.

~/galaxy % grep 'Netrek II' *.c
newwin.c:    baseWin = W_MakeWindow("Netrek II -- The Next Generation",0,YOFF,WINSIDE*2+1*BORDER,

Erm, nope...
Xref: sparky alt.games.xtrek:3657 rec.games.netrek:184
From: ja1r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeffrey Wayne Alexander)
Newsgroups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.games.netrek
Subject: Galaxy-class ship stats (Re: KSU chaos server)
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:47:58 GMT
Organization: Carnegie(no dash)Mellon(no U)


     They seem to combine the better qualities of cruisers and
battleships.  Exceptions are the phasers and tractor/pressors, which
are definitely not as long-range as battleship beams.  Their real
selling point is their torpedoes -- DODGE THEM, because they are
more painful than any other class's (I've been told 50 pts damage).

     Some numbers:
max warp:  9  (but, like it's been said, engines start heating early)
dam:     120  \ same total damage-sucking ability as a battleship, but
shl:     140  /   shifted a bit more onto shields (BB's are 130/130)
armies:   12
fuel:  12000

     Finally, IMHO, the Klingon and Romulan GA bitmaps are very
similar and easily confused.
Newsgroups: alt.games.xtrek
From: horde@reed.edu (Mr. Heiji Horde)
Subject: Re: GrandFather Borg Version 1.0
Organization: Twisted Genius Rehabilitation Center, a Division of MHE
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 08:23:42 GMT
Distribution: All

In article <1992Apr6.024344.12808@reed.edu> All writes:
>In alt.games.xtrek article <69511@ut-emx.uucp> davidt wrote:
>> The most automated borg in public domain is available from cs.utexas.edu
>> Version 2.0 will be coming out soon.  I'm testing it right now.
>
>	This sounds like a great borg, but correct me if I'm wrong, but  
>the only board currently implementing the shoot-thru-walls feature is  
>Foghorn, a supposedly non-borg server.  What value does shoot through  
>border have if the borg cannot be used there???
>-his underwear

Surely you've seen this person on foghorn?
Please tell me you were there when we were hunting the earlier versions
  of the GFborg on foghorn, non-borg by honor only.
I can't wait until the blessed binaries for it come out.

And if I keep hunting borgs on foghorn, to make the person go away, then
  my ratio is going to go WAY down (I'm not a dogfighter).

	-KreelScum
	 horde@reed.edu
-- 
===========================================================================
 Mr. Heiji Horde    (Non NeXT mail only please)     e-mail: horde@reed.edu
   All insane acts are done in affiliation with Madd Hacker Enterprises
               Disclaimer: In life, there are no Guarantees.
Xref: sparky alt.games.xtrek:3720 rec.games.netrek:556
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: alt.games.xtrek,rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: PLEASE answer these non-newbie questions.
Date: 11 Apr 92 20:11:12 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <lamontg.702942424@milton> lamontg@milton.u.washington.edu (Lamont Granquist) writes:
>Question:  Do you also need to turn UDP sequence checking off to get
>significant benefits from it?

Turning sequence checking off is generally a bad thing to do.  All sequence
checking does (unless you have double UDP on, which should be disabled in
the distribution clients & servers anyway) is drop packets which are out of
order.  While ordering isn't usually a problem, you can get some really
nasty glitches if something does arrive out of order.

Turning the checking off does NOT stop the server from sending sequence
numbers (which only add 4 bytes to each packet - packet type + pad + two
byte sequence #), and doesn't stop the client from keeping track of them.
It merely allows out-of-sequence packets to be accepted.

>Lamont Granquist  lamontg@u.washington.edu  (anon: ap.4497@layout.berkeley.edu)
>alt.drugs FTP site: milton.u.washington.edu[128.95.136.1] dir:/public/alt.drugs
>               For quotes and other useless info see my .plan

Drugs via FTP... what'll they think up next.

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
Newsgroups: alt.games.xtrek