HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: NZ vs Aust
From: clive@otago.ac.nz (Clive Boock)
Date: 27 Jul 92 10:02:48 +1300
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand

   All Blacks 26 vs Wallabies 23


    The All Blacks salvaged some pride from the Australian tour by winning the
last game and 3rd test by 26 to 23 in Sydney on Saturday. 
   The first half started marvelously for the men in black when they scored a
well worked try within 3 minutes of the start. The rest of this half was
largely unforgettable with both teams making numerous errors. Little or no
free-flowing play was possible as when the ball went to ground it usually
resulted in a penalty to the attacking side when the movement was inevitably
stopped by someone diving in over the top. I suppose the thinking is that three
points from a penalty is better than seven from the try which may be scored. 
    The score at half time was thirteen each and reflected accurately the way
the teams had played. 
   In the second half the All Blacks seemed much more assured and took the
Wallabies on in all aspects of the play. Bunce touched down for what seemed a
certain try after some great play had left the Australians floundering. The try
was dissallowed (I still don't know why) and it was left to Jamie Joseph to
score the All Blacks second try, again after the Wallabies were found wanting in
their defensive play. 
    The Australians scored a late try to add some respectability to the score
although everybody except the referee saw at least two forward passes in the
movment on the way to the try line. 
    Fox played well at 1st 5/8th and, importantly , kicked 16 points from all
parts of the field. Lynagh had another forgetful day with the boot (is he
worth keeping?)and his general play also seemed to be lacking.
   A great game to cap a very good test series. Both teams scored the same
number of points in the series although the world champions deserved their
series win. 

Clive H. Boock, University of Otago, New Zealand.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie)
Subject: All Blacks restore some pride
Originator: torrie@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: rec
Date: 25 Jul 92 06:38:12 GMT

Third Test:
New Zealand 26, Australia 23

Half time: 13 - 13.

  For New Zealand, Walter Little and Jamie Joseph scored tries.
Fox kicked both conversions, three penalties, and finally got
his drop goal (which would have won the test last week).
  For Australia, Farr-Jones and Anthony Herbert scored tries.
Lynagh kicked both conversions, but only kicked three penalties.

  According to the commentators, the score could easily have been
31-16 to New Zealand, with Frank Bunce being denied a late try in the
corner after a tremendous Tuigamala run, and the try to Herbert
(which came just a couple of minutes before the end) coming
after a blatant forward pass (according to the commentators).

  Interesting fact for the series:

  Points for Australia:   16 + 19 + 23 = 58
  Points for New Zealand: 15 + 17 + 26 = 58

  Dead even in points, the tests were decided by 1, 2 and 3 points
respectively.

  All in all, I'd say the sides were pretty close to each other in
ability.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evan Torrie.  Stanford University, Class of 199?       torrie@cs.stanford.edu 
Embrace rationalism, reject superstition.           Break away from the past.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: peterda@cs.uow.edu.au (Peter Donald Asquith)
Subject: Re: Bledisoe Cup, 2nd Test. Aus 19 NZ 17
Keywords: You bloody Beauty
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Wollongong University, Australia
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 04:49:26 GMT

>This was followed by an intense period where Australia 
>attacked the corner repeatedly with high balls and chip kicks but the All Black
>defence held firm under immense pressure, until with a minute in the second
>half remaining a sries of driving plays by the aussies spread the All Blacks 
>a little to much and the ball was wipped wide quickly to Carozza who scored 
>despite the magneficent cover tackle of Timu. Then Loe the mad dog that he 
>is came in and thumped Carozza on the nose in a deliberate cheap shot, 
>he should have been sent off for this and the incident should be referred 
>to the judicary.
 
        Unfortunately as I'm sure everyone knows, the incident
        was referred to the NZRU and in a perverse twist Richard
        Loe was exonerated. Instead of doing the honourable
        thing the team management convinced themselves of a
        conspiracy theory. Perhaps the AB's thought that a 
        siege mentality would help galvanise the squad - however it's
        pretty dangerous when fantasy becomes reality,
        and brutality goes unpunished.
 
>Finnally Loe should be thrown to the wolved that sort of cheap
>shot should be punished severly, The guys a thug and it won't help
>with the development of the game.
 
        Too bad you aren't part of the judicial process! I
        share your disgust.
 
Peter Asquith
University of Wollongong
Australia.
From: higham@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Re:NZFRU and Loe 
Date: 23 Jul 92 11:42:37 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <1992Jul22.022106.11284@cs.su.oz.au>, allanc@cs.su.oz.au (Restless Wanderer) writes:
> 12pm 22 July 1992 ABC News.2BL(AM)
> No one I've spoken to has any doubt(forget Hamish) that Loe deserved to be 
> sent home.If the NZRFU is to be seen as fair,then SOMEONE should cite
> him before the home National Body.
> 
I don't know if it was really a 'SEND HOME' offence was it? OK, Keith Murdoch
assaulted a security guard, thats a sending home offence. Let us say that Loe
was sent off by the referee for his actions, he would probably have been
suspended for a game or two, but sent home?? No way. 
I think that the situation has been inflamed by sections of the Australian
media. I recall incidents in the past where Wallabies have assaulted All Blacks
(a test a couple of years ago involving Higginson as I remember when an
Australian was sent off for punching) yet the outcry was silent by comparison. 
The referee and the linesman were within 5 metres of this sending home offence
and didn't even caution Loe, now that says alot. 
Again, I don't totally disagree with you, but I do think that sending home is
too severe. Perhaps a suspension for one game imposed by the NZRFU would have
been more politically correct. 
In any case, I daresay there are some Springbok props that will be looking
forward to mixing it with Loey, a la Kevin Skinner. Maybe he'll get his.

-- 
Tom Higham,		        "If ever somethin' don't feel right to you,     
Radiocarbon Dating Lab,	        remember what Pancho said to the Cisco Kid:
University of Waikato,	        'Let's went, before we are dancing at the
Hamilton,		        end of a rope, without music.'"  
NEW ZEALAND.		                   Sailor Ripley, "wild at heart".
Higham@waikato.ac.nz
From: cctr123@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Alan Murray, CSC Operations, Uni of Canty)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Its great to be on top
Date: 28 Jul 92 09:34:01 +1200
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand

In article <1992Jul24.083147.20644@mailhost.ocs.mq.edu.au>, s8923098@macnab.mqcs.mq.oz.au (Josef WIDJAJA) writes:
> As I  understand it, New Zealand Union players have been getting money for
> playing the game although it has been concealed in various forms, such as
> being employed as PR man for certain companies. Wait till Auckland is 
> admitted into Winfiels League competition, Union players in NZ will 
> switch to League in droves.

Well I reckon this is a misconception. The guys at the top of New Zealand rugby
do very nicely for themselves, thank you very much, and I doubt that too many
of them will be scrambling to play league. Take, for example, John Kirwan who
was an apprentice butcher before rugby shot him to fame. Had he continued that
career I doubt very much he would spend half the year in Italy. There will no
doubt be a number of fringe players who attempt the switch but will they be
good enough for league anyway?

All Blacks, these days, are looked after well enough and unless someone is
prepared to pay them heaps as a sign on fee, and I don't think Auckland will
have the money to splash out in that area, then I doubt they would do much
better out of league. I could be wrong but if the rich English clubs, who don't
appear to operate under any sort of salary cap, can't lure the current players
it's hard to see Auckland having that big an impact.

Alan
From: ucap22a@ucl.ac.uk (Mr Alisdair R Davey)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Re: NZFRU and Loe
Date: 23 Jul 92 09:55:59 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium, London

From all the reports I have read, neither the referee or the linesman
saw the incident. What I and I suspect quite a few other people are 
annoyed about is the attitude of the New Zealand board. We all saw what
Loe did, and at a time when the emphasis of the is on trying
to keep violence of this sort out of the game, the NZRB are doing
nothing about it. To say the Wallabies are have got away with this kind
of thuggery in the past is crass and missing the point. Rugby runs
a thin line between sport and physical assault. I don't know of any cases
in Rugby, but certainly in soccer in this country there is one case
going on at the moment of causing actual bodily harm, where one player
elbowed another in the face causing some very nasty injuries. Rugby can't
keep hiding behind "the physical nature of the game". Rugby must be seen 
to keep its own house in order. If players feel that they are not going
to be protected within the game, maybe they might think about taking it
outside. On or off the field, you punch someone in the face and break 
their nose, its assault.

Alisdair
From: neil@neumann.une.edu.au (Neil Dunstan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Its great to be on top
Date: 29 Jul 92 00:06:27 GMT
Reply-To: neil@leibniz.une.edu.au

From article <1992Jul28.093401.6079@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>, by cctr123@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Alan Murray, CSC Operations, Uni of Canty):
> In article <1992Jul24.083147.20644@mailhost.ocs.mq.edu.au>, s8923098@macnab.mqcs.mq.oz.au (Josef WIDJAJA) writes:
>> being employed as PR man for certain companies. Wait till Auckland is 
>> admitted into Winfiels League competition, Union players in NZ will 
>> switch to League in droves.
> 
> Well I reckon this is a misconception. The guys at the top of New Zealand rugby
> do very nicely for themselves, thank you very much, and I doubt that too many
> of them will be scrambling to play league. Take, for example, John Kirwan who

But an Auckland team will be a profit-making concern and those in charge
will want the best players available. As for players switching to league
``in droves'' - this is not likely, nor is it the main concern. It only
takes the poaching of one or two BEST players to make an enormous 
difference to the national team. For example, look at the lose of Wales'
Jonathon Davis. How well did the Welsh national team handle that? Have
they won a game since? How about the AB's lose of Gallagher and Schuster
(now playing for MY BELOVED Newcastle in the Winfield League Comp.) I
think the AB backs are only now getting back to something like their
strength when these two were playing.

As for who might get poached - there aren't too many current ABs that
would be prime targets. Maybe Walter Little. An Auckland league team
might have the view that a recent AB star would increase their home
gate takings too.



Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: davidnz@leland.Stanford.EDU (David Richard Bell)
Subject: Justice
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 21:56:08 GMT

Justice has been done. Glad to see the AB's win one at last. After watching
the second test on tape I'd have to say that at least the AB 'A' side appears
to be a fairly solid unit. This stuff on the net about the Wallabies being
markedly superior is clearly a load of crap. A bit more composed maybe but
that is about it. The forwards are no better than NZ and the backs don't have
the nerve to try anything. Will Lynagh kick, or perhaps kick, then again he
could always try a kick just for variation.....?

Apart from that pathetic effort against Sydney, I think the AB's acquitted
themselves reasonably well on tour. It seems the Wallabies were *extremely*
lucky to win the series and I think the next home series in NZ will see the 
Wallabies go down in a whitewash.

We still need to work on the discipline (after seeing the tape I totally agree
with all those complaining about Loe - what a cowardly cretin he is, the ball
is near Carroza'a waist and Loe goes for the face). Anyone who reckons this 
was a fair shot probably had their view obscured by their trousers.

There is hope after all!

db
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: pmc5@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Paul M Corballis)
Subject: Re: why no rugby in olympics?
Keywords: olympics
Reply-To: pmc5@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Paul M Corballis)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 21:34:07 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.203933.5711@nrtpa038.bnr.ca> swamp@bnr.ca writes:
>I noticed that roller hockey is a demonstration sport for the olympics
>this year. I don't know about other places, but there isn't a roller
>hockey team around here, but there are a handful of rugby teams. My
>question is - has rugby ever been an olympic sport? It would seem to me
>that it has a larger following than roller hockey.


I think it used to be an Olympic sport (long ago), but was deemed too
rough (!) (And no Americans play....).
>
>-- 
>steve swamp                       BNR
>email: swamp@bnr.ca               Research Triangle Park, NC

Cheers, Paul
From: higham@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: It's great to be on top
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:33:05 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <1992Jul24.095918.1@wombat.newcastle.edu.au>, ccpcg@wombat.newcastle.edu.au (PHILIP GREENTREE VK2IW CCPCG@WOMBAT.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU) writes:
> In my recent post "It's great to be on top" I used the term
> pakeha fifteen" and quite rightly, Bill Taylor of Cantab Uni
> took me to task.  You're quite correct Bill, any Maori reader
> would have every right to be up in arms.  In my defence, I was
> intent on making the point that the ABs these days are NOT the
> NZ first XV, they are actually the SOUTH PACIFIC REPRESENTA-
> TIVE XV and lost sight of Maori distinction.

Actually you're getting yourself into deeper waters, the New Zealand All Blacks
are the New Zealand team, not the South PAcific team. I was interested in your
post but I felt very disappointed when you implied that Pacific island people
are economic refugees bought here, you implied to bolster our rugby strength. 
Cook island people are NZ citizens, every one. Western Samoans were I think and
now don't need a passport to come to NEw Zealand. Auckland is the largest
Polynesian city in the world, almost 10% from memory are Pacific islanders, the
vast majority citizens. Its a denigration of them to imply that they are not
NEw Zealanders, they are. The All Blacks are reflective of the multiculture of
New Zealand just as the Australian soccer team are. They are the New Zealand
team but contain players of different ethnic and cultural backgrounds; Eroni
Clarke, Michael Jones, Pat Lam- Samoan New Zealand; John Kirwan, Ant Strachan,
Terry Wright - Pakeha New Zealand; Steve McDowell, Walter Little - Maori NZ.
Remember Bernie Fraser? He was part-Fijian, part Scottish believe it or not,
but I bet all of them say they're kiwis first. You may see Sotutu from AK in
the Blacks one day, he has a Fijian background. There would be Indians, Slavs,
Spaniards, Thais, Filipinos and Uncle Tom Cobbleigh and all if they were good
enough to play in the team. All New Zealanders, all citizens, all eligable to
play.
-- 
Tom Higham,		        "If ever somethin' don't feel right to you,     
Radiocarbon Dating Lab,	        remember what Pancho said to the Cisco Kid:
University of Waikato,	        'Let's went, before we are dancing at the
Hamilton,		        end of a rope, without music.'"  
NEW ZEALAND.		                   Sailor Ripley, "wild at heart".
Higham@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: AB backline vs Sydney
From: garks@otago.ac.nz
Date: 24 Jul 92 10:41:29 +1300
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand

I'm in the middle of an arguement here.  Can someone please supply me with the
names of the AB back-line that played against Sydney the other night.  See we
NZer's have selective memory retention!
Alistair Hay
Dept. Anatomy
From: laing@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Peter Laing)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: All Blacks in SA
Keywords: 'Boks Rule!
Date: 28 Jul 92 01:17:58 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

Hello all,

Apparently, the A/B's arrived at Jan Smuts Airport last 
night and were greeted by eager SA rugby fans brandishing
placards like: Welcom to your worst nightmare!   etc.
First game is against Natal on Saturday I think. Will be
interesting to see how the Boks as well as the A/B's perform.
Pity they only play one test!

Cheers,
        Peter Laing
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: rel@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: All Blacks get thrashed 40-17 !!!!
Date: 23 Jul 92 08:12:43 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

Well NZs bad form continued last night at the Penrith Stadium where Sydney
thrashes the All Blacks 40-17 YES you read that right.
NZ started very badly with a try being scored in the first 5 minutes and things
carried on from there. Apperantly no other team (including tests) has scored so
many points against the Blacks!!
So more problems for Mains with the third test on Saturday. Pat Lam (of Western
Samoa) went of just before half-time with rib problems, so the loose trio will
be NZs weaknes in the test I suspect.
My pick for Saturday is Aust 20 NZ 10

Rob.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: a2824ag@sunmanager.LRZ-Muenchen.DE (Riaan de Jager)
Subject: Re: University rugby world cup.
Organization: Leibniz-Rechenzentrum, Muenchen (Germany)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 08:45:38 GMT

wft@math.canterbury.ac.nz (Bill Taylor) writes:

>Many thanks to Franco Properzi for posting the results of the student rwc for
>us. I'm sure a great many of us appreciate the effort. (Did you not manage to
>find the scores from the pool games, Franco ?)  

>Maybe some of us didn't appreciate the results, though ! NZ thoroughly trounced
>in the final, by France. Franco told me in an email, how France was seething
>for revenge; after their defeats by NZ in the '87 WC, and again in the '88 1st
>university WC, which apparently was initiated by France in an attempt to gain
>revenge for "87.   Well, they've finally done it, and how!  21-9, after trailing
>9-6 at half time.       WARMEST CONGRATULATIONS to France.
>----------------------. 
>                      | Is there to be no end to New Zealand's rugby woes ?
>          \           | At this rate we'll even lose to South Africa !!
At loss for words ... (Boring, isn't it?)
-- 
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Riaan de Jager           a2824ag@sunmanager.lrz-muenchen.de              | 
|  Leibniz Rechenzentrum    jager@informatik.tu-muenchen.de    |         /  | 
|  Barer Strasse 21 8000    Tel +49 89 2105 7402                \    *  /   | 
|  Muenchen 2                                                    \     /    |
|  Germany                                                        ;___/     |
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      
                                
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby,rec.sport.rugby
From: keyser@oliver.sun.ac.za (P.W. Keyser)
Subject: Re: Can someone from South Africa post news about AB tour?
Reply-To: keyser@cs.sun.ac.za
Organization: Universiteit van Stellenbosch, R.S.A.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 06:48:21 GMT

andrew@megadata.mega.oz.au (Andrew McRae) writes:
: Can someone from South Africa post regular news about the
: AB tour? Perhaps not *just* about the tour game scores, but about
: the reactions within SA about the first big Rugby tour for 20 years.
: 
: It would be interesting to hear how people are reacting, what
: the AB's think themselves about the tour, and so on.
: 
: Cheers,
: Andrew McRae (andrew@megadata.mega.oz.au)

It is actually not been 20 years since our last big tour. In 1981 we toured
through New Zealand, and lost the 3rd test, due to a penalty (that was given
for no aparent reason) in the last 2 or 3 minutes of the match. The All
Blacks won the series 2-1. And in 1986 there was a ``rebel'' New Zealand tour, 
which also was quite a big affair, as you can imagine.

Will try to keep you up-to-date. Sorry if I may sound a bit biased.

--
  Wouter

------------------------------------------------------------------
P.W. Keyser                      e-mail:keyser@cs.sun.ac.za         
Departement Rekenaarswetenskap,  "These Romans are crazy" - Obelix  
U.S., Stellenbosch, 7600, R.S.A.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod)
Subject: Re: All Black SA tour - itinerary
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:16:39 GMT

In <torrie.712477609@Xenon.Stanford.EDU> torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) writes:

>ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod) writes:

>>(most of those games are at high altitude...)

>  Actually, I think it's pretty much a progression upwards from
>sea level... with the last match at Johannesburg being the 
>highest above sea-level.  

Another interesting point is that the test against New Zealand is to be
played in the Transvaal (usually dry as dust in winter) and that against
Australia in Cape Town (usually as wet as a sponge in winter).

That's one of the disadvantages of playing a single test, I suppose.
-- 
  F.F. Jacot Guillarmod     PO  Box 94     \        |     ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za
  Computing Centre       Grahamstown 6140   \      /     +27 461 22023 xt 284
  Rhodes University        South Africa      ;___*/   33 18 30 S | 26 31 45 E
From: ucap22a@ucl.ac.uk (Mr Alisdair R Davey)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: why no rugby in olympics?
Keywords: olympics
Date: 31 Jul 92 11:00:08 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium, London

Roller Hockey is in the Olypics because Samaranch wanted it.
He used to play and is mad keen on it and as Barcelona is
his home city and these are *his* games...enuff sed !
Alisdair
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: amanning@acd.acd.ucar.edu (Andrew Manning)
Subject: Re: Musings on the game...
Organization: Ntl Center for Atmospheric Research, Atmospheric Chemistry
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 22:12:04 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.022107.14221@massey.ac.nz> R.D.Lynn@massey.ac.nz (R.D. Lynn) writes:
>
>That's right. The World Cup should be seen as far and away the MOST IMPORTANT
>event.

I disagree. I think the Bledisloe Cup is a more important event. Evidence
of this is that everyone knew the real final of the world cup was the NZ-OZ
semi. \

Andrew M.