HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 09:26:07 -0500
From:         JCWEST@INDYVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Thank you!

peter,
    in the end, i expect we shall all find that in truth what everyone
with both religious or non-religous beliefs are basically right.  i
realize that everyone may not agree with me on this, but once we stop
and open our eyes, we may find that what we call the UNIVERSE is
infinite enough for all thoughts, beliefs, loves, fears, etc...
    on a side note to emmy, yes... i believe in everything that you mentioned
in your previous message, and more...  because of the basic concepts of
my 'belief' system, i realize that after all is said and done we are
every one of us, an integeral part of this UNIVERSE, and thus one
person's beliefs, whether it be in fairies, ghosts, giants, or 'gods' is
just as important and necessary as another person's beliefs...
                                                joseph...
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 16:48:00 EDT
From:         "ISTA ISTA ISHATARRO MUNDI" <RAFTER@UTKVX.BITNET>
Subject:      Scale the cliff

        How dull it would be to listen to one song over and over again for your
entire life; how nerve-grating to confine yourself to one genre of music; how
repetitive to repeat one note over and over, until the mind falls headlong into
the fallacy of believing that that one note is the end-all, be-all of music!
        Play the whole keyboard instead; sound every note with every possible
rhythm! Invent new notes without regard for their harmony or beauty -- invent
them for the pure delight of creating! And as with music, so with the mind.
        Why try to assuage your mental thirst by turning the tap just a hair
and wetting your mouth on one drip at a time? Open the tap wide! Play with the
temperature... play with things you can't even play with, like color, smell!
Don't harness your mind to one plodding horse and amble clumsily down the
track; don't even harness a hundred racing stallions. Reject the carriage,
unhitch yourself, and travel under YOUR OWN POWER down the road, to whatever
your destination turns out to be. Why condemn yourself to live forever in one
tiny valley, with its unchanging view of the sky? Climb Everest, Fuji, and
Kilamenjaro (sp?)... swim in the ocean and trek through the desert... and know
that no place is any better or worse than any other place. Scale the cliff and
lvie in the world -- not in a cave.

Brian
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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 09:36:02 -0400
From:         "DOUGL, APPARENTLY." <STCHRI@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA>
Subject:      Re: Canned Robots

Joseph:

I would be very interested  to know more about the "AIDS" infected
syringes being used as weapons by gangs. Do you have any sources - ie:
newspaper accounts - you could direct me to???

Douglass
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:41:51 EST
From:         Mary Ellen Ugactz-Fernandez <ugactz@CUNIXF.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Guns and syringes

Zahir:

What I am saying is - weapons are here - yes, we can try to restrict
them , but we can ban ALL weapons...we can't stop making
weapons..that's unrealistic... it sounds real corny - but we need to
get in touch with the youth of our inner cities , outer cities..what
have you...and try to find an outlet for their rage.... I'm not against
restricting weapons but I think I'm a bit more realistic...or maybe
that's wrong - I'm hopeful of a more creative end...we can't end the
usage of weapons...because we can't control the wills of others -
individuals or countries...

The weaponless one will be defeated...no?

/EMMY
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Subject: Re: Guns and syringes
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:28:34 GMT
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Zahir,

No one said go and let us give every body a weapon but educating peaple
is the most important aspect.  Also educating young people is most of the
time is the most important because young people will be pschologiclly more
open-minded and will accept more GOOD IDEAS.

Alan
From: x91ahmed4@GW.WMICH.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: Re: A woman as President
Date: 6 Nov 92 00:07:45 GMT
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Well talking of establishing limits I guess GOD has done that by clearly
stating it in His Holy Book....

Dilshad Ahmed...

what i think majority is careless and don't bother to find out about religion
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 11:21:06 -0500
From:         x91ahmed4@GW.WMICH.EDU
Subject:      RE: open

Ruth..
thank you for replying ....but okay I get your point...then this means that
if prostitutes are given money to eat pig's shit then they will do it...
Am I getting the right inference from your answer...that is they do it for
money...But this act is very degrading...and loosing self respect....

Ahmed
From: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: Re: Increasing the message limit.
Date: 7 Nov 1992 21:41:28 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, oliver@DHVX20.CSUDH.EDU () says:

>Thanks, Ruth.
>The way to do it is probably in my folder on information for
>listowners.  It is at the university but I'm going in tomorrow
On Sunday?  Oliver, that's what I call dedication.:-)

>I'll look at it then.  Meanwhile, I've sent a request to my contact
>at Penn State to up the limit to 100 and see how it goes.  We'll get
>it worked out.  Thanks again.

You're welcome - at least all that list junk was good for *something*.:-)

>
-- 
		###	Ruth Hanschka, the Nethead    ###
			- ap290@cleveland.freenet.edu
	      Where anything can happen, and it usually does
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:22:02 -0200
From:         Alcino Dall Igna Junior <adij@DI.UFPE.BR>
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.

On Wed, 11 Nov 1992 x91ahmed4@GW.WMICH.EDU wrote:

> We should try to eliminate..the problem from grass root problem and
> from your answer dating is the grass root problem..which should be
> eliminated or taken care of like arranging marrage....Letting
> this happen is like at the same time you are adding Gasoline to
> fire and another person is puutting water....If you want to
> extinguish the fire why not put only water....
>
> Ahmed

From what time are you from?

Using an atomic bomb to kill a fly? :-)

Alcino
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 10:06:10 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.--questions

Zhao Yong,

Welcome... The "viels" issue came up on a discussion of the use
of veils in Islam and some cultures...this led to a discussion on clothes and
rape...and then to a discussion on the sex industry and claims that seem
to imply that most prostitutes have self esteem problems and so on...

Zahir
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:17:40 -0700
From:         4FMH011@MC.BITNET
Subject:      Re: A woman as President

Ahmed,

Instead of saying the majority of people are careless and don't bother finding
out about religions, just try to motivate them.  Negative words make p
out about religions, just try to motivate them.  Negative words make people
sick but motivation make people curious about the subject.

Alan
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 11:28:13 -0500
From:         x91ahmed4@GW.WMICH.EDU
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.

Zahir...

We should try to eliminate..the problem from grass root problem and
from your answer dating is the grass root problem..which should be
eliminated or taken care of like arranging marrage....Letting
this happen is like at the same time you are adding Gasoline to
fire and another person is puutting water....If you want to
extinguish the fire why not put only water....

Ahmed
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:05:00 CST
From:         "KRISTA L. BENNETT" <KLBHO@CANAL.CRC.UNO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.

Ahmed:
      I encourage you to attend a rape education seminar... If a girl
doesn't want to have sex, a girl doesn't want to have sex. Not all
passion and romance is a prelude to sex, and "no" means "no", no matter
what happened beforehand.
---------Krista
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 09:47:59 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: open

Ahmed,

I lost you..."where do they come from.."  where do what come from...?

Zahir
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 21:54:52 -0700
From:         4FMH011@MC.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Woman as a President

I agree with you Jef. But let me ask you a question, "Do you know any thing
about Islam and Islamic countries? What do you know?"
There is a difference between MUSLIMs and ARABIANs, and it is a very big
difference not just a minor one.

Alan
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 20:53:32 EST
From:         Mary Ellen Ugactz-Fernandez <ugactz@CUNIXF.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Ethics

Well, let me take a shot a these serious question s...hmmm...
1. Ethics? Ethics is one's moral philosophy.....
2. What are thte questions it asks?
	Hmmmm....how to live ones life
                 on what does one base his decisions in life
                 what is a moral life
(I wish my philosophical husband was here...whew!):)
3. How does ethics relate to religion?
	Hmmm... religion tries to provide guidelines toward an
ethically, moral life - prescribes a particular pathway to a moral
life.. but a moral life need not be achieved thru religion... religion
provides an authority that some may follow to achieve an ethical
standard - the ten commandments for example , provide an atuhoritative
guideline and how to maintain or procure an ethical life.... I think of
it in terms of a grand elabloration in tale of the basic human
principles.. not killing is , It hink, a basic human principle, but
within religion it is talked about in parables and such .....(LEt me
know if this makes any sense:)   ].
4. Is it an imperfect duty not to believe in god? Hmmm.. I don't know
what is meant by imperfect duty.... Obviously, (since this si Emmy
here), I don't think it is necessary to believe in a god to be
ethical...  We as humans are equipped with reason and compassion and
hindsight...for example... to help us make decisions in life that would
beneift us as well as society...
5. My ethical system?  Hmmm.... to think through carefully the possible
outcomes of my decisions... what is the greater good?  which factor
weighs most heavily in the decision...in every decision, there is a
unique factor... in some situations, honesty will not be favored, in
others, being terribly honest would be most favored... I would say
rationalism  is my system... I don't know if you werre looking for a
label for it..if you are,, there is one for ya...please let me know if
you'd like me to elaborate in any way..or clarify....

Good luck with your class.
/Emmy
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 14:15:00 CST
From:         "KRISTA L. BENNETT" <KLBHO@CANAL.CRC.UNO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Dogma's Iron Cage

Alan:
     I find your comments on "the nothing" a little harsh--in saying
that our brains are so sophisticated that no one will believe they were
constructed by "the nothing", are you trying to say that no rational
person would believe that they could have been created by something
other than a "higher being"? I was not raised as a religious person,
but I was raised to consider ALL possibilities, and while I would not
push my acceptance of evolution as an acceptable answer (note that I
did not say THE answer) to the question of life on Earth on other
people, I think that, if I interpreted what you said correctly, you
need to be a bit more accepting in your views. I have the greatest
respect for other people's religous viewpoints, and even greater
respect for people who question them. I'm not saying that I think
that if people questioned their religious viewpoints that they
would change their minds; I'm only trying to say that one has to
be careful about being too closed-minded...

                   -Krista Bennett
              <KLBHO@canal.crc.uno.edu>
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:07:43 -0400
From:         "DOUGL, APPARENTLY." <STCHRI@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA>
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.

Zahir:

Your dismissal of peer adjudication as judgement by the ignorant
is hardly an argument.

A - the duty of both defense and prosecution is the education of the
peer based jury in the complexities of which you speek.

B- I do not agree that in the King case, it was ignorance of the complexities
of subduing the unarmed which led to the aquittal but rather a failure to
convince the jury of a reasonable definition of legitimate force [ a problem
we are facing in ONtario right now where the govt is attempting to make the
police more accountable in the use of their firearms and the public is
supporting the police in their attempts to prevent the new gun use
regulations]

To suggesst that experts should sit in judgement strikes me as
defeating the purpose of open criminal prosecution - to allow
the community to monitor the application of the principles of
justice.

To paraphrase an NRA bumper sticker:
                When only professionals are allowed to judge,
                only professionals will ever be innocent.



Dougl           *
The          .
Southern      *   *
Cross           *
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 11:55:54 -0700
From:         4FMH011@MC.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Dogma's Iron Cage

I appreciate your opinion. but I more question.

        1-If there is a GOD and I died not believing in GOD what is my ending?

        2-Do you believe in UFOs?

Alan
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X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R3).
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:00:44 CET
From:         Klaus Kursawe <NDB035@NOV.HB.SE>
Subject:      net-problems

Hi Interculters,

I have a few problems with my network (my last message came back 2 times -
the reason was "%MAIL-E-OPENOUT, error opening USR1:[MARQUE]MAIL.MAI; as
output -SYSTEM-F-IVDEVNAM, invalid device name!")
I have no idea what this means (and knowbody else could tell me) so I just
keep on sending and hope it will reach someone sometimes (it took 2 days
till I got my message back with that error-message. Somehow the network
doesn't like me).

/Klaus,
NDB035@NOV.HB.SE
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 13:14:03 EST
From:         oliver@DHVX20.CSUDH.EDU
Subject:      RE: Right Wings

Thanks, Uwe, for giving us some background on events in Germany.
XCULT has at least 5 subscribers in Germany.  I encourage you to
contribute your views as events unfold.

Oliver Seely
Listowner, XCULT-L.
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 12:59:58 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.

Ahmed,

You really do not get Krista's point!.... How can you get rid of the
grass root problem....

Take the example of topless Bars.... Some people do enjoy that kind
of entertainment... Some people like to dress sexy.... Some of us like
to go gambling... Some of us like to drink alcohol....  Just because
you do not like any of the above does not mean others cannot enjoy it... or
that it should be banned....

There are many countries where society comes before the individual...where
the individual gives up his personal needs for the good of society...

In many countries, people canot get a divorce just because they are in a
boring marriage....because divorce is not good for society and so that
person ends up giving up a lot of pleasure in her life and remains
married to a person she/he does not enjoy.  There are many of us who can
enjoy a drink of alcohol with out driving drunk but in some countries,
we who can handle our alcohol are denied the pleasure because ITS NOT
GOOD FOR SOCIETY....

In America, Individual rights come before society's rights in most cases.
Yes, as a result of this there are a lot of problems but I still would not
trade it for life in a society where I cannot decide for myself.

zahir
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 13:03:37 EST
From:         Kerry Reese <U350000@UNIVSCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.
              13 Nov 1992 17:25:13 GMT from <eeigcn@EEIUC.ERICSSON.SE>

I have been just reading and observing this interesting conversation on
veils.  I, too, would be curious to hear the opinion of a moslem woman
on this topic.
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 08:17:41 -0700
From:         4FMH011@MC.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Tolerance (& Emmy's kindness)

I got some of my first mail returned to me.
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 01:13:54 EST
From:         Gretchen Schirmer <IQZK100@INDYCMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.
              9 Nov 1992 15:35:07 EST from <CAMPBELL@URIACC.URI. EDU>

Thank you, Jim and Joyce, for your responses about rape as a violent crime.

In addition, Ahmed, you ask questions about why and how women could let them-
selves be exploited by pornographic magazines, nude bars, etc.  The answers are
many and complex, but certainly one of the reasons is that there is a demand
and equal employment opportunities for women are often limited in many
societies, i.e. "why should I go work a minimum wage job when I can make a lot
more money in a lot less time by doing this or that kind of work?"

Similar factors (divorced and rejected by family with limited opportunities for
gainful employment) drive women to prostitution, even in strong Islamic
societies (whether you are willing to admit it, or not).

Gretchen Schirmer, IUPUI
From: KLBHO@CANAL.CRC.UNO.EDU (KRISTA L. BENNETT)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: Re: Dogma's Iron Cage
Date: 8 Nov 92 19:46:00 GMT
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Emmy:
Thank you.
Krista
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 16:12:41 EST
From:         Mary Ellen Ugactz-Fernandez <ugactz@CUNIXF.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Dogma's Iron Cage

Krista:

Very well said.....about morals and atheists/agnostics....

/Emmy
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 17:12:12 EST
From:         Mary Ellen Ugactz-Fernandez <ugactz@CUNIXF.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Glorious Freedom from the Will to Truth

brian:

I wish I were as wonderful with words as you... what a way with words
you have...

altho' I have become embroiled some how in this debate... about god, I
do believe that one should not be intolerant of religions but respect
them... despite what others think because of my stron g views at times,
I think the belief systems around the world can all contribute to our
understanding of what humans all over the world seek ....


Just don't expect me to accept them as FACT, TRUTH, REALITY...that's
all..

/Emmy-ola
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 09:27:27 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.

I am in total agreement with the psychologist regarding rape and
women's choice of clothing and behaviour....  It is however,
unfortunate that people from some other cultures and religions (and
expecially living in the U.S.) find it necessary to put down "American"
society and customs, and spread such BS to keep their own kids from
losing the culture and/or religion of their parents....  On the other hand,
its been VERY effective and by succesfully keeping American born kids of
various ethnic groups and religious groups within their own, have raised
them far more succesfully (if succes can be measured by rate of crime,
school grades, teenage pregnancy, drug usage and so on).....

Zahir
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 12:30:39 EST
From:         Argyria Kehagias <AKEHAGIA@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject:      Re: woman as president
              3 Nov 1992 16:48:03 EST from <ugactz@CUNIXF.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>

Emmy
       Very well said
                 Argyria
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