From: hala@dbsoft.menlo.cadre.com (Hala Abdalla)
Newsgroups: rec.travel,rec.travel.air,rec.scuba
Subject: Travel to Australia - Summary
Date: 12 Aug 92 01:02:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: dbsoft.1992Aug12.010222.7049
Organization: Cadre Technologies Inc., Menlo Park Operation

Hi All,
I posted news a few days back requesting info about travelling to Australia.
Thanks to all who responded.  Here is a summary of the responses.  Enjoy.

Hala
ps. In my posting, I inquired about air travel as well as scuba diving.
Please excuse the fact that some of the info is not relevant to this
newsgroup.  Thanks.

pps. I tried to compress the info as much as possible.  Different messages
are separated by a line of "-" dashes.  Have fun.


------------------------- begin info about Australia -----------------------

Hey, Hala, good to hear from you, and even better to hear you're going down
under. Fair dinkum, mate! One thing, though, you're going to have to brush
up on your beer-drinking before you go! Where are you going to go? We liked
best the "top end" (translates to the Northern Territory, actually just the
northern part of that), but I wouldn't reckon you'd want to go there during
the wet season, and also the east coast, all up and down. For plane fares, 
we saved a lot of money by being students - it knocked about $500 off the
cheap fares. There were several agents dealing in student fares, but we went
with Council Travel in the city (San Francisco). The other thing that saves
a lot of money is to go for less than a month. Which it sounds like you're
going to do. I don't know about courier services...

Cost? It depends on how you like to stay and how much traveling you like
to do. There are a *lot* of "backpacker's hostels", for young travelers, which
are pretty cheap compared to hotels. I think the usual rates for a double
room, bath down the hall, ran around $20AU/night. Some were sleazier than
others. The crowds in these joints were pretty heavily European, a lot of
kids on long trips around the Pacific. Often fun, but maybe a little too
lively if you want romantic togetherness. We never stayed in any real hotels,
but I got the sense they were pretty expensive.

We were struck by how expensive it was to get from one place to another, even
though there was a big airline fare war going on when we were there. Busses
were cheap, and were nicer than Greyhounds here (they showed a movie on the
one long trip we took), but they were still busses. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

	Well, you know that travelling anywhere around Christmastime
will cost you more... the airlines know people will be travelling then
and raise their rates.  
	You'll probably want to get a hold of an agent that deals with
consolidators to find a cheaper flight.
	My agent's number is 1-800-747-TRAV... they're all pretty nice to
talk to out there... they'll be more than willing to help you out.. they have
been with me... good luck!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I went to Oz nov '90 - may '91, including obtaining a NAUI O/W 1 licence on the
great barrier reef off Cairns (far North Queensland) through Cairns Dive Centre.

In Cairns there's very heavy competition and the prices are correspondingly low
- they are also lower than most other places because the reef is relatively near
to the coast at that point. The Cod Hole is most easily reached from Cairns, and
from what I've heard is a must for those who are already qualified.

The reefs on the west coast north of Perth are supposed to be equally impressive
but they are a very long way from anywhere else. (It is important not to forget
that Australia is the same size as mainland US excluding Alaska!) Fortunately
with internal flights now deregulated they are affordable even to the budget
traveller, though I had a brilliant time by buying a car (Ford Falcon
Stationwagon) in Sydney, driving it round Mel-Ade-Ayers Rock-Darwin-Cairns-Syd
and selling it again. You'll need two months for this unless you rush it. It's
easy to buy cars fully equipped from other backpackers who've just done the
same. In fact the cheapest place to buy is Cairns because lots of people run out
of money there. So if you can get a flight into Cairns and a flight out
somewhere else (eg. Sydney) you should be able to offset the cost of the trip a
bit by selling the car for more than you paid for it.

There's not really anywhere I could say don't go. Only particular highlights,
such as Byron Bay south of Brisbane, Daintree rainforest north of Cairns, Ayers
Rock and the Olgas, the MacDonnell Ranges near Alice Springs, Fraser Island off 
the Queensland coast, Sydney itself (coming from SF you'll have more of an idea
than most of what it's like!), the list goes on. You have to work hard not to
have a good time.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>I'm planning a trip to Australia around Christmas time.

Wow. it's going to be hot! (middle of summer).  At least you
will be in the off season.

>2. Any info about scuba diving in the great barrier reef (scuba shops
>recommendations, cost, recommeded places to dive ...etc).

I recomend you fly to Cairns and book yourself on a dive boat.  If you
book through a hostel, the hostel will usually let you stay for very
little dough (they ranged from 8-12 au$ when i was there).

i went out aboard the "Rum Runner" to the Coral Sea.  Great boat,
great crew.  i strongly recommend it.

i also did the "Taka II" for a trip to the cod hole.  it was fine, but
nothing to rave about.  the crew did their best, but they had too many
tourists with "attitudes" to make it really fun when i went.  also,
the fish feed at the cod hole is rather hooky.

you'll probably need a tourist visa to travel to australia.
take your booties and fins (rental fins are horrid).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From uunet!coral.cs.jcu.edu.au!gopal@cadre.com Sun Aug  2 06:46:42 1992
From: uunet!coral.cs.jcu.edu.au!gopal@cadre.com (Gopal Gupta)
Subject: Re: Travelling to Australia

> 
> 2. Any info about scuba diving in the great barrier reef (scuba shops
> recommendations, cost, recommeded places to dive ...etc).

I live in North Queensland in Townsville.

We have a well known shop Mike Ball Dive Expeditions, 62 Walker st,
Townsville (phone 077-753022) that you might wish to contact.
> 
> If you have info about any of the above, or about travelling to Australia
> in general (must sees, places to avoid, useful hints, ..etc) I'd be very
> happy to hear from you.  Answers by email preferred (hala@cadre.com).

Let me know if you need info on North Queensland. I will be happy to
provide.

Gopal

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From uunet!AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU!SAYED@cadre.com Tue Aug  4 06:50:12 1992
From: uunet!american.edu!SAYED@cadre.com
Organization: The American University
Subject:      Re: Travelling to Australia

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----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From uunet!DARWIN.NTU.EDU.AU!BAMPTON_J@cadre.com Tue Aug  4 10:05:42 1992
From: uunet!DARWIN.NTU.EDU.AU!BAMPTON_J@cadre.com
Subject: Travelling to Australia
X-Vmsmail-To: smtp%"hala@dbsoft.menlo.cadre.com"

Hi!

I've been travelling in Australia since March.  The Queensland Coast is
excellent.  I'm not much of a diver but have friends who have been diving off
of Cairns and the Whitsunday Islands and reckon it's quite good.  You might
want to pick up the "Lonely Planet Guide to Australia" - it's a decent guide
book with out-of-the-way spots, helpful tips.  I would avoid any dives that
have snorkelling incorporated - these bits of the reef are really over-worked
with tourism and aren't too spectacular.  If you have the time/finances - my
friend recommends Byran Bay in NSW (Julian Rocks) and the reef off of Broome in
WA as other good spots.  Have a fantastic trip.  I'm sure you will love it
here.  Feel free to write back if you need more info.

Lisa

PS:  If you're doing budget accommodation/travelling solo - Scotty's Beach
House on Mission Beach off of Dunk Island (near Tulley) is a great place to
stay/meet people etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>2. Any info about scuba diving in the great barrier reef (scuba shops
>recommendations, cost, recommeded places to dive ...etc).

There are so many places to dive, probably easiest from Heron Island or
Cairns.  These are a long way apart.  If in Cairns, there is almost a
bewildering range of choices.  I don't do scuba myself, but when I'm in
Cairns I go snorkelling with "Noah's Ark" - $A35 for the day and, I think,
$30 - $50 for the dive.

>If you have info about any of the above, or about travelling to Australia
>in general (must sees, places to avoid, useful hints, ..etc) I'd be very
>happy to hear from you.  Answers by email preferred (hala@cadre.com).

I have been travelling in Australia enthusiastically for 35 years, so if you
could give me an idea of the sort of things that interest you I could give
you some help.

John Schmidt (j.schmidt@edn.gu.edu.au)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From uunet!rabbit.physiol.unimelb.edu.au!shc@cadre.com Tue Aug  4 10:06:56 1992
From: uunet!rabbit.physiol.unimelb.edu.au!shc@cadre.com (Stephen Cody)

Gidday,

I've dive Heron Island on three separate trips, 1, 2 and 3 weeks
respectively.  Fortunately as a biologist I could stay at the
research station.  There is also a resort on the Island.  Heron
Island is a coral atol, ie island made from sand washed into the
lagoon of the Great Barrier Reef.  Hence the island is surrounded
by the Reef.  All other resorts are built on continental shelf 
islands,  an hence have only patches of coral, to see the Great
Barrier Reef from these resorts, you must catch a charter boat
or sea-plane.  They can be a long long way from the Great Barrier
Reef proper (the resorts call it the outer reef).

The Heron Island resort is not your "Club Med" type of resort, 
they don't organise volleyball, or have jetskis or parragliding
etc.  They do have ample facilities for diving, big boats etc,
glass bottom boats, and reef walking tours by qualified biologists
as guides.  They have dances at night but they are very quite.
They show great reef documentries at night.  The boat trips may
be as short as 10 mins!  Where you can hand feed Fang, a moray
eel featured in most of the Ron and Valarie Taylor movies.  From 
hand feeding thousands of fish to diving untouched areas of the
reef, great.  It is also possible to walk to the reef edge and
dive a shore dive, pretty hard work with scuba, easy with snorkel.

Accomadation varies from bungalo for the more budget aware to
self contained units.  Food is very good.  The bar is nice.
Drinking while watching the sun set over the reef can't be beat.

In summary it is not the resort if you want to kick up your heels,
but if you really want to see the reef, there is no other resort
on the Great Barrier Reef.  

P&O run the island you get to it by chopper or launch from Gladstone
Queensland.  You are also getting into the wet season up there (I think
, you better check) at Christmas  All other resorts are furthur North,
Heron might be better weather.  The worst month (I THINK) is January.
So you probably will be OK at Heron.  That is the season the turtles
come in to lay eggs on the beach at night (I THINK).   I live down
south (see map) no coral but good diving, Great (non-coral) reefs,
wrecks eg fairly intact submarine at 90ft.  So if you are comming 
furthur south give me a buzz.  The weather in Melbourne in summer
is great.  Hot, but not humid.

Regards,
                                        __    /
   Stephen H. Cody,                   _/  \__/ \ 
   Department of Physiology,         /          \ 
   University of Melbourne,         /  Australia \ 
   Parkville, Victoria 3052,        \   ____     /
   Australia.                        \_/    \_*_/
                                             __
                                             \/

P.S.  If you like I could send you an Australian/New Zealand diving
magazine, lots of charter adds etc.  let me know.  They are about
$6:00 Aus + Postage.
shc
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

  If you want to find out where to dive and how to get there, get the Lonely
  Planet book on the great barrier reef.  It is very very good.  Places to dive
  Arlie Beach - the gate way to the Whitsundays,  Cairns - dozens of dive charters
  Port Douglas.  There are many many others.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Backpackers places (what we call hostels) are $10-$15 per night.  Most
have kitchens, I think.  Groceries are pretty cheap, but so is eating out.
I think about $25 or $30 per day per person would cover food and lodging.

>- Any info about scuba diving? no boat dives please as I'm extra sensitive to
>motion sickness.  (names and/or numbers of reasonably priced dive shops, good
>places to go diving, how much does it cost,..etc.)

   Well, the bad news is that the reefs are offshore, so you either have
to go their by seaplane, helicopter, or boat.  That's true for most of
the Great Barrier Reef as far as I know.  I think you'd get a lot sicker
on a small plane than on a boat!  Inquire locally in Cairns, which has
hundreds of scuba places.  I went thru 'CDC,' the Cairns Diving Center,
but any Backpackers place in Cairns can recommend places.

   You could theoretically fly out to one of the resort islands and do
diving off of there for a few days, but that doesn't sound like it's within
your budget.

>- Any info about Rollerblading and/or biking?

   I don't know about rollerblading.  There are a lot of bikers.  Good
bike shops around Sydney, I hear, and probably in most towns.

> How much did the flight cost you? which airlines? do you recommend your travel
>agent?

   Well, I flew there on business, so I went by United with a refundable    
ticket.  It was part of a larger circle fare, so I can't really break it down.
I don't know where you are, but if you're in the U.S. there are lots of
discounted ticket brokers in New York and San Francisco.  The New York
ones are listed in the travel pages of the Village Voice, for example.

>- If I want to go diving in the great barrier reef, which city would make most
>sense as our destination?

   Cairns.  It is not the most exciting town, but it's very cheap to
stay there, and has a pleasant tropical climate.  Lots of fellow travelers.

>- What is the cheapest way to travel within Australia (I'd love to go visit
>Alice springs and Melbourne if we have the time and money)?

   Are you starting in Sydney?  Go to the King's Cross area and stay
in a Backpackers place there, and get the little red backpackers guide.
Also, look at all the advertisements that people put up looking to share
rental cars and vans.   Make plans accordingly. 

   It is a huge country, so you want to think carefully about time vs.
money.  It's quite cheap to go from Cairns to Sydney (via Brisbane, I think)
by bus, but it will take something like 2 days.  It's about a 2-3 hour plane
ride if you get a direct flight.

   If you have any definite plans before you leave for Australia, buy
the domestic Australia air tickets ahead of time, as they are probably
cheaper.  If you can't plan it, you can't, however.

>- What places did you enjoy the most that you recommend seeing?

   Well, it depends on the season I guess.  Sydney was a very interesting
city, and is worth the better part of a week.  It's got 1/4 of the entire
population of Australia, and a lot of the museums, nightlife, etc.  Since
it was winter, I spent 5 days in Cairns and went Scuba Diving.  It's
better to spend at least a week there, perhaps 2 or 3 if you really like 
it, to explore the rain forest, and the coast north and south.  Also,
since it was winter and I love skiing (yes, snow skiing) I went down  
to the snowfields and skiied a couple of days.  That was basically going
down thru Canberra (very dull) to Jindabyne.  I mention this because
even if you don't like skiing Jindabyne is a nice place to go biking.
It's well below the snowline, but you will get nice views of the mountains.

>- Good beaches to go to for swimming/windsurfing?

   Many in the tropics.  Didn't spend much time on them.  Miles and miles
of beaches.

>- As a rough guesstimate, how much money should we put aside for the whole
trip?

   I forget how many days you want to spend there, but figure living expenses 
of $35 per day per person as above.  Airfare from the U.S. will be something
like $1300 per person (conservatively, that's what my ticket cost).  You
probably want to allow another $100-200 per week per person for travelling
within Australia, as a rough figure.  Then you should add on incidental
expenses, like museums, movies, concerts, and other extras.  So, per person
one month

>- Any places or things to avoid?

   German tourists in the tropics.  No, seriously.  The food in restaurants 
is generally very mediocre.  That's the low point.  Except for chinese
restaurants, which are usually very good.  Other than that, you can cook
better for yourself.  Not necessarily cheaper, however, as produce is
kind of expensive.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hala,

there are a couple fo things you should bear in mind - Christmas time is
when most Australians take their holidays - it can be difficult at times to
get accomodation - so either book in advance from home - or do it first
thing when you get here - it's such a long way to come to miss out on some
"must do's"!!

Scuba diving the GBR is great - you should try posting to rec.scuba and you
might get some good ideas as well. I was up there about a year and a half
ago - we on;y dived out of Yeppoon with the Rockhampton Dive Service and
were very impressed with the way they rran their opertaion. We did a day
trip out ($80 - including taks and weightbelts) and dived Baron adn Child
Islands - it was a smaller boat - but the diving was spectacular. hepas of
sea snakes up that way.

We also went out ona large catamaran out of Yeppoon called the Reefseeker -
cost $125 for the day including 2 dives - avoid this at all costs!! The
catamaran is huge (takes about 400 people) - and always anchors in the same
site - thus the coral is practically all destroyed. Definately not worth
the money - and I wasn't terribly impressed with the divemasters o nthis
operation.

If you're heading further north tan Rockhampton or Yeppoon - there is some
excellent diving to be had out of Cairns and Port Douglas - I was up there
last year - and although didn't have the time to go diving - some of the
underwater videos were spectacular!!

Expect to pay big money for trips on the larger boats - I think Haba Dive
in Port Douglas was charging about $175 for the day - including 2 dives,
lunch adn full gear - but friends photos were spectacular!!

Hope this help - enjoy your trip.

--------------------- end of info about Australia --------------------------