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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 08:44:00 CST
From:         NETTRAIN <MILLESJG@SLUVCA.SLU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Tips on ftp training

----------- Original message below forwarded by NETTRAIN moderator ------------

Date: 27 Jan 1993 21:43:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Tim O'Connor <OCONNORT@elmer1.bobst.nyu.edu>

Carol Brand said:

> Also, I find that it is important to help new users distinguish between
> directories and files.  Too many people get frustrated because they try
> to transfer directories and cd into files :^).

When the goal is to teach the concepts -- not the keystrokes -- of FTP
navigation, it might be best to heist a networked Mac that has MacTCP and
Fetch installed, and use that for contrast, when things get confusing.

Fetch (for people who've never seen it) is an FTP client you run on your
Mac.  It makes the remote host system look quite a bit more visual than
the classic FTP character-based programs we all know and love.
Subdirectories appear on the list as folders, and files appear as
documents.  You can even retrieve entire subdirectories, and Fetch
decompresses (Mac-compressed) files as it grabs them.

I was once showing somebody how to maneuver around an FTP site.  We were
using a PC.  Even though we took things slowly, he confessed that he was
confused about where we were in the remote system.  Fortunately, I had a
Mac at hand, and I showed him Fetch on the Mac, and *then* the light
bulb exploded over his head 8-) and he had a better idea of what we were
doing.

Of course, after people see Fetch, they want to abandon their VAX/Unix/PC
access forever.  But you'll have to deal with that one yourself.  (Big
**grin** here.)

--tim o'connor

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Tim O'Connor             **The usual organizational disclaimers apply**
Technical Support Coordinator          NYU Bobst Library/Systems Office
INTERNET: OCONNORT@ACFCLUSTER.NYU.EDU    BITNET: OCONNORT@NYUACF.BITNET


----------- Original message below forwarded by NETTRAIN moderator ------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 21:43:36 EST
From: "Craig A. Summerhill" <craig@cni.org>

On Wed, 27 Jan 1993 Carol Brand wrote:
> I've been training mostly K-12 teachers in the past year, and one of the
> biggest challenges I've faced has been helping them to understand the
> hierarchical directory structure of most ftp servers.  As an aid, I use an
> overhead that shows that the path pub/mirror/chemistry/xblat.Z can be
> visualized as:
>
> <diagram deleted>
>
> Also, I find that it is important to help new users distinguish between
> directories and files.  Too many people get frustrated because they try
> to transfer directories and cd into files :^).

I think this is an outstanding point!!!  Having a fairly diverse background
in providing systems support in many different kinds of organizations, I
believe that the visualization of directory structure(s) is a problem
many computer users have on a standalone computers.  Networked computers
only serve to complicate matters vis a vis directory paths.

Also, I would encourage trainers to make a point to their students that
the directory and filenames in some FTP archives are case sensitive (i.e.
upper and lower case letters do matter).  These FTP archives are housed
on (mostly) unix-based machines, such as our server (ftp.cni.org).  For
example, the following files would sort as this on a unix server:

   00README
   README
   Readme
   readme

Although the use of the upper case/lower case combinations can be harder
to key and confuse some people when they receive mistype, I think there
are some justifications for their use.  You are free to disagree.  However,
if you are trainer new users, you might want to point this out to them.
--

   Craig A. Summerhill
   Systems Coordinator and Program Officer
   Coalition for Networked Information
   1527 New Hampshire Ave., N.W.
   Washington, D.C.   20036
   Internet:  craig@cni.org


----------- Original message below forwarded by NETTRAIN moderator ------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 09:03:50 ECT
From: Martin Raish <MRAISH%BINGVMB.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>

On Wed, 27 Jan 1993 Carol Brand said:

>If for some reason you need to use a site that will not take everyone, I
>suggest splitting the class up by rows.  Have handouts prepared that give
>explicit instructions for logging in, locating a file, and transferring
>it.  Then as people begin the process, you can move back and forth
>between rows, providing help as needed.

This last sentence is critical.  I have found that my training sessions
are MUCH better when I have four or five assistants to help me wander
around the classroom.  No matter how carefully I write the instructions,
someone always gets stuck.  With raw beginners, even the tiniest problem
can quickly become a disaster, and I cannot deal with 20 disasters all
at once.  Get help for your session, no matter how many sites you use!

-- Martin
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU