Organization: Penn State University
Date: Monday, 6 Apr 1992 07:27:47 EDT
From: Tim Bieling <QAA@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Homosexuality and the Bible
 <1992Apr2.185906.14832@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> <2304@isgtec.isgtec.com>

In article <2304@isgtec.isgtec.com>, mike@isgtec.com (Mike Sellers) says:
>
>[...]
>I believe that children are an integral part of the family.  There
>is no substitute in life for raising children; anything that leads
>people away from this, I believe, is not a good thing.

For YOU, and your family.  You are once again making a broad generalization.
This is the third time you've repeated this line.  There is more to a
happy, content, and close family than raising kids.

>
>[...]
>I would say that, much as the family is an integral part of our happiness,
>and as children are an integral part of the family, men and women are also
>best off in the proper relationships together.  Before you stretch this
>out into all sorts of logical absurdities, please re-read my disclaimers
>above.

Oh puh-lease.  I don't see any difference between two men, two women, or
a man and a woman in a lasting loving relationship.  You have such a
narrow view of what happiness is.  (and you don't seem to be able to
open your mind at all)  Children can be a happy addition to any of the
above relationships - if they choose to have children.

>
>[...]
>Despite what is popularly bandied about today, an adult's sexual
>orientation is by no means frozen.  People move among and between a
>whole host of sexual orientations all the time.  Just as people who
>have enjoyed heterosex for years sometimes begin to enjoy homosex, there
>are cases of those who have gone the other way (and many other ways too).

See, now you hit the slippery slope.  First you start above talking in
flowery terms of happiness, family, etc - but you suddenly change tone
when you mention "orientation" - suddenly it's SEX.  That is the tactic
always used to condemn homosexuality.  Somehow straight couples make
love, but gay couples HAVE SEX - don't you see the difference?

You are soooo sure that environment is what makes someone gay, then
tell me - what is it in my growing up in a small town, one of 6 kids
to practicing Catholic parents, living in the country doing typical
farm chores, with dad working, mom at home making sure dinner was on
the table at 5 - what part of that environment made me gay?  huh? huh?

I knew I was gay as a very young kid, but kept in the closet because
of the hostile society around me.  It is the "kind" people like you
which hurt me the most.

>
>[...]
>Exactly what do you find so feeble about what I believe, other than
>the fact that it clearly bothers *you*?

The fact that you are so convinced that what you say is FACT.  That you
are unable to open your mind to the possibility that homosexuality is
every bit a natural part of society as is brown hair.  That is what
bothers me (I can't speak for others).  What bothers me most tho, is
that you use as proof, a book written 2000 years ago, in an ancient
language, in a society that I'm sure you couldn't possibly begin
to fully understand.  Concepts and principles from the book are
great, but it is hardly 100% fact.

-Tim
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc