HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: black@lester.sybase.com (Chris Black)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay-bashing (was: Re: Private...)
Date: 8 Jan 93 18:23:35 GMT

In article <C0GAEL.917.2@cs.cmu.edu>, zitsky+@CS.CMU.EDU (Mark Ryan Miller) writes:
|> 
|> Having been through hell in school, for non-sexual reasons, I'd like to
|> hear from other people about their _response_ to gay bashing.
|> 
|> Why don't people who are targeted frequently, move to another city
|> or neighborhood?  Why stay where you keep getting harrassed?

This sin't about gay-bashing, but about the hassling and threat of rape
I'm subject to as a woman.  There's a limit to how much I'm willing to
restrict my activities to avoid them, because what I figure is that if I
let the bastards make me stay home, they've already won.  I'm as
oppressed if I give things up to avoid being hassled as I am if I'm
hassled.

-- Chris
black@sybase.com
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Places to do in Freeport, Bahamas
Date: 7 Jan 93 05:41:41 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, rwt@stiatl.salestech.com (Roger Terrell) wrote:
> 
>A cousin of mine won one of these "free" trips to Freeport, Bahamas, and
>talked me into going with her.  I was wondering if anyone here could
>suggest gay-oriented/-friendly places in or around Freeport.  Actually,
>any advice at all about Freeport would be helpful.  Thanks!

The best thing to do would be to hop on a Sea Escape and head west to Miami
Beach.  Barring that, be careful.  The Bahamas has a horrible record lately
in treating lesbigay people, including foreigners.  A few have been 
incarcerated for lengthy periods of time lately.  Use your discretion.

I haven't been to Freeport in over a decade, so I'm not sure I can be of
much help in suggesting anything in particular to do.  I'm not sure there's
much more than sun, beach, and casinos (and of course tacky souvenirs.)

Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson@ocean.dnet.nasa.gov
"Home is where your roof landed" - t-shirt seen in Miami
"We Will Rebuild (tm)" - majority community response to Andrew
"We Will Redecorate" - gay community response to Andrew
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson)
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Originator: glp@merlin
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:49:44 GMT


In article <1993Jan4.204040.5631@wixer.cactus.org>, will@wixer.cactus.org (Bill Staniewicz) writes:
|> I recently went shopping for a new bottle of
|> cologne and was reminded by the variety of choices
|> available. Among those were: Obsession, Drakkar Noir,
|> Stetson, Kouros, and Eternity for Men. 
|> 
|> Does anyone have any idea what the most popular
|> may be within the gay community. Is there any special
|> preference? Are the manufacturers aware of this?

Eternity.  I *hate* Eternity.  It's not that
it smells bad, it's that it lasts *forever* 
and doesn't fade.  You can enter a room where
someone has been wearing it but left an hour
before, and you can smell it.  You can walk past
someone on a cold day and smell it.

We have some - a gift - that we use for bathroom
spray.  One spritz and two people's reactions
to cuban black beans is nicely neutralized.  But
other than covering obnoxious flatulence, I can't
think of a good reason for its existance.

I have a fondness for Geoffrey Beene's _Bowling Green_.
I was given a small amount a couple of years ago
and on rare occasions I wear it.  It fades (as
Jess described) and blends in with how I think
I normally smell.  And Dave likes it, which gives
it major points.

-- 
Greg Parkinson                  Phone: 212-657-7814  Fax: 212-825-8607
Citibank,111 Wall Street        E-Mail: glp@fig.citib.com
New York, New York  10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ba.motss
From: sweiss@klamath (Scott D. Weiss)
Subject: More CHI/Colorado Stuff
Followup-To: sweiss@gain.com
Summary: Where to write
Keywords: Colorado CHI Boycott
Organization: Gain Technology, Palo Alto, CA.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 20:02:29 GMT

You, too can send mail to the following people.  Have fun and be safe.  :)

	Scott


From sweiss Thu Jan  7 11:53:55 1993
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 11:53:53 PST
From: sweiss (Scott D. Weiss)
To: henderson.chi@xerox.com, polson.chi@xerox.com, jacob.chi@xerox.com,
        hefley.chi@xerox.com, owen.chi@xerox.com, orbeton.chi@xerox.com
Subject: CHI '95 in Denver, Colorado
Cc: sweiss
Content-Length: 1304

Hi all,

This message is in reference to CHI '95 being held in Denver, Colorado.
Please do not hold CHI there, as I will not attend CHI '95 if it is held
in Colorado.  As a CHI professional, tutorial presenter at InterCHI '93,
and as a gay man, I strongly urge you to consider holding CHI in an
environment that is not hostile to gay people.  States such as Massachusetts,
California, and New York have gay-positive legislation.  There are many other
states that also have gay-positive legislation, and I would be glad to
research this issue for you.
 
I understand that Denver voted against the anti-gay measure, and I regret 
that some clear-minded, well-thinking Coloradans will suffer economic 
hardship.  But it is critical that we all send Colorado a clear message:  
discrimination against any person, regardless of her or his social, economic, 
religious, emotive, disability, race, sexuality, or other minority status is 
unacceptable.

I can only speak for myself, but I assure you that most, if not all of 
the gay attendees of CHIs in the past will be extremely upset if CHI is
held in Colorado.  Please allow my fellow gay CHI attendees keep our
organization a social, rather than political one.

Thank you for your consideration.

	Scott D. Weiss
	User Interface Architect, Gain Technology
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: A bad coming out story?
From: sbrack@jupiter (Steve Brack)
Date: 10 Jan 93 02:01:37 EST
Reply-To: sbrack@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu 
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

kolt@quads.uchicago.edu (Matt K/Gonzo) writes:
: I have a friend who works for the same company I do. Her son goes to the
: same high school I went to. 
: I offer to tutor the son.  
: I come out to [the mother] 
: 
: She and I had lunch today and she said "Don't discuss lifestyles with Jay."  
: I respond, "Oh no. We've got way too much work to do." And she follows with  
: "Good. Because he's still innocent. And I'd like to keep it that way."  
: 
: This is from a really liberal person who I'm sure doesn't consider 
: herself phobic at all. I'm sure she doesn't see her p-o-v as being
: the same hoping-to-sweeep-it-under-the-carpet thing that so many liberal
: type people are guilty of.
: 
: Can anyone recommend howI should handle the situation?

	Hmmm... seems that just like Bill Clinton supports public education
	except in the case of his own progeny, your friend favors openness
	about orientation, except when it comes to her son.

	Of course, the worst case would be that she fears you're working up
	to something other than tutoring, not an unknown conclusion, given
	the common myths about gay mens' promiscuity & desire for young
	boys. 

	How to handle the situation?  Personally, if I felt comfortable 
	with the mother, I'd sit down & discuss her concerns with her.
	The least I would do is tell her that if the subject is broached, I 
	won't lie or otherwise hide the truth.  I'd also find out how my
	sexual orientation would harm the innocence of her child.  He has
	almost certainly heard that there are gay people in the world, and
	it'd probably help him more than anything else to actually know one,
	as more than just a representative of a sexual orientation.

	If she's as open as you say, then she'll be sufficiently in touch with 
	her feelings to share them, & you can work through her concerns
	together.  There's a lot of latent prejudice in people that doesn't
	assert itself consciously.  

PS: Loved the bearcode!  *smirk*  

--
Steven S. Brack        |"But the greatest of|   sbrack@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu
2021 Roanwood Drive    | these is love."    |  STU0061@uoft01.BITNET 
Toledo, OH  43613-1605 \____________________/    brack@uoftcse.cse.utoledo.edu 
+1 419 GR4 1010        |  MY OWN  OPINIONS  |   sbrack@maine.cse.utoledo.edu
From: tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: MOW hotel and travel arrangements
Date: 11 Jan 93 15:44:32 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <1546@dosbears> dosbears!mikel@pyramid.com writes:
>>through Delos instead of Washington National (Delos is way the hell
>
>Dulles.  As in John Foster.  For those of us "of a certain age".

hehe... I first heard it as Delos and went years without correcting
myself.  For me it will always be Delos.  

-- 
|Tom Barrett (TDBear), Sr. Engineer|tom.barrett@amd.com|v:512-462-6856 |
|AMD PCD MS-520 | 5900 E. Ben White|Austin, TX  78741  |f:512-462-5155 |
|"No is yes, And we're all free" ---Tracy Chapman, "Why?"              |
|My views are my own and may not be the same as the company of origin  |
From: dblakele@acpub.duke.edu (Dean Blakeley MD)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Date: 9 Jan 93 13:55:28 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

In article <1993Jan6.105958.8045@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>The same oil on two
>different people can smell almost completely different under
>these conditions, very quickly.  Something that smells
>intriguing or delightful at first might turn your stomach
>after sitting on your skin for a few minutes; the converse
>is also true, so don't be too quick to decide whether you
>like it or not.  

Oh, I agree entirely.  One friend of mine who is an orthopedic
surgery resident in Georgia wears Lagerfeld all the time.  When
I try it on it smells absolutely wretched.  On the flip side when
I was wearing Oscar de la Renta's pour Homme and was out shopping
with another friend in Kansas City's Country Club Plaza, he walked
down wind of me for a moment and stopped, saying, "That's subtle,
it must be expensive."

Of course, when I think about that shopping trip, I remember coming
out of Gucci and we walked past three women with competing fragrances
that I actually choked on.  Blech!

Peace


-- 
| Dean D Blakeley, MD            | Internet:dblakele@acpub.duke.edu           |
| Ambulatory Care Service (11C)  | BITNET:blake007@dukemc.mc.duke.edu         |
| Durham VA Medical Center       | FORUM:blakeley,dean d@durham.va.gov        |
| Durham NC 27705                | NeXTMail accepted  #include <disclaim.h>   |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: cjlee@netcom.com (Caroline Jean Lee)
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 07:15:13 GMT

rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes (on pride day):
>EVERY CITY IN THE WORLD should observe it on the last Sunday of June.

I'm not sure if I seeing America-centrism, Western-centrism, or just
plain the-world-revolves-around-NYC-centrism in terms of GLB history,
but I sure am seeing some.

Then again, I could be missing some smilies.

Caroline 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis)
Subject: Re: Dissertation on soc.motss (PLEASE READ)
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:47:46 GMT

In article <C0Jw67.7Dq@hpuerca.atl.hp.com> mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser) writes:
>In <1993Jan8.155223.15069@psych.toronto.edu> paul@psych.toronto.edu (Paul Hastings) writes:
>
>>* there * is * no * conceptual * family *
>
>* Of * course * there * is *
>
>The best discussions, disagreements, and just out-and-out fights I've
>ever seen were between family members (where the definition of "family"
>sometimes matched the Republikkkans and sometimes it matched ours).

One big happy *dysfunctional* family!  Why, it's just like home!  B{) B{)

>Why waste the effort on insulting someone you don't care about?  
>Hurl your invective at those you love...   :-)

Oh Gawd, do you know how close you are to the truth in far too
many cases?  The things some people do to their children...

Brian
-- 

Brian A. Jarvis,          Rm. 4026, Sidney Smith Hall, Dept. of Psychology,
jarvis@psych.toronto.edu  University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
System Administrator      M5S 1A1  (416) 978-3948
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: Different Strokes (was Re: Changing standards of female
Organization: insert anything here
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:00:47 GMT

In article <726820461snx@drummond.demon.co.uk> john@drummond.demon.co.uk writes:
>In article <C0p21z.4MF@panix.com> mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon) writes:

>> Conjunction of Civilisation with Simlife leads me to ask, in hope,
>> if you refer to that impossibly addictive board game wherein one
>> marches along the Archaeological Succession Table to accumulate
>> goodies and pass epidemics to neighbors in trade ... ????

>I meant the computer game - though it sounds rather
>similar and is go-to-bed-at-5am addictive, at any
>rate to start with...

	They are a little similar but not really.  Civ the computer
game is basically "Empire" (which was written in FORTRAN, BION)
made smarter.  Civ the board game is more like Risk mated with
Diplomacy.

	Both are fun, but I can play the computer game anytime...

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis)
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:17:16 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.195658.16430@ads.com> henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:
>jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis) wrote: 
>->In article <C0MB65.Ln1@queernet.org> rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>->>It is the observation of queerdom's most sacred holiday, the anniversary
>->>of the Stonewall riots.
>->>
>->>EVERY CITY IN THE WORLD should observe it on the last Sunday of June.
>->
>->I don't see any smilies, but I hope to Gawd you mean this sarcastically.
>
>why would you say something so silly?  

Probably because I don't agree with it.

"Queerdom's most sacred holiday?"  Who is included in this "queerdom"?
Who isn't?  As I think of Stonewall as a significant historical fact and
not as some sort of sacred holy day, I assume I'm not to be included
in "Queerdom".

The anniversary of Stonewall has very little importance in my life.  It
is, to me, an American event, something that happened in a foreign country.
Yes, the social effects and implications have crossed borders, but an
event much more relevent to me is the repeal of the anti-sodomy laws in
Canada.  Should I now announce that the whole world should celebrate
this event on a single day?  Of course not:  the event has no importance
to much of the world's population.

As it happens, Toronto celebrates its Pride Week in the days leading up
to the march on the 4th Sunday of June.  It works for us:  the weather
is typically good and it's a good warm-up to the Canada Day week-end.
I'd be just as content to have it in July or August.  If you were to come
to Canada and suggest that we permanently fix the date of our march to
co-incide with American marches celebrating an event in the U.S. which
had a profound effect on American gay culture, what do you think would
be my response?

while Stonewall might have importance to you and me, it is quite
meaningless in many other areas of the planet; attempts to explain to these
areas why they should time their Pride Days to co-incide with an event
in our culture should be met with derisive laughter.

As I said in a previous article, declaring that Pride Day has the sole
function of commemorating Stonewall also ignores the obvious, that we
as a community have grown considerably since that time.  Stonewall should
be noted and remembered as part of the process that got the ball rolling,
but not by excluding and ignoring the victories since then.  Call me naive
(no doubt you already have) but I've always taken the name Pride Day at
face value:  it's about gay pride, which is more than just Stonewall.  

I'm all for having a global day of celebration and display of unity,
but you'd better offer something to rally around.  Gay pride would do it
for me.  Stonewall by itself would not.

Brian
-- 

Brian A. Jarvis,          Rm. 4026, Sidney Smith Hall, Dept. of Psychology,
jarvis@psych.toronto.edu  University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
System Administrator      M5S 1A1  (416) 978-3948
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: H20, Greehouse, meteorology (was Re: kommotion...)
Date: 11 Jan 93 03:28:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan11.032808.8589
Organization: insert anything here

In article <C0ns5p.Do4@panix.com> mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon) writes:

	[asks questions about solar irradiance variations and their
effect ont he solar-terrestrial interaction...]

	Yeah, I took it to e-amil... :-)

BBC
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Changing standards of female beauty
Date: 5 Jan 93 14:28:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan5.142811.4562
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <72898@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>Arne Adolphson writes:
>>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>>> Personal decoration goes back much further than that, I'm  
>>> sure, and in all cultures. 
>>
>>I wonder what Todd thinks of tattoos and the ritualistic
>>mutilation of earlobes.
>
>I don't know, but at least tattoos and piercings:
>    a) don't take up precious counter space
>    b) don't threaten to asphyxiate those nearby
>    c) are paid for once -- not a constant financial drain
>

I think you should have stopped at the "I don't know" part. How about:

I don't know, but at least cigar smoking:
    a) is more likely to provoke mouth or throat cancer than cigarettes
    b) promotes the cultivation of non-essential plants in areas
       which might do better to grow food for sustenance
    c) Has the cachet of being done primarily by assholes in public

I don't know, but at least body shaving:
    a) is more likely to keep people from having lice or crabs
    b) makes people more aware of early-warning signs of skin cancer
       so often masked by hair
    c) keeps an ailing American steel industry alive

I don't know, but at least motor-oil sex:
    a) uses unsafe condom-dissoving petrolium distillates
    b) supports the regimes of repressive islamic countries
    c) replaces 'natura' body oils by chemically processed ones


-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Enjoying Smallpox
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 02:40:28 GMT


In article <6JAN93.18034988@enh.nist.gov>
aberson@enh.nist.gov, writing in the smell-good thread,
remarked:

>I'm trying to remember the last person I knew who enjoyed
>smallpox.

For some reason I seem unable to remember the exact date,
but I think it's *extremely* unlikely, given your age, that
you've known anyone who either enjoyed it or didn't.  Hasn't
it been more than 30 years since the last reported case?
Our resident medicos will doubtless remind us of the facts
in the matter.

Medical science has suffered many defeats, but smallpox is
one of its victories.  Do they vaccinate people against it
still?

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Subject: Re: BAR Manners in Boston....
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 14:40:20 GMT

mattm@Apple.COM (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>Here, in the Cultural Epicenter of the Western Hemisphere, there
>are bars with darts.  And glass glasses (though you can't take them
>out into the parking lot).  Though not every establishment is so
>equiped.

You wimps. Real men drink from the bottle like in the leatherbars in
the Warmoesstraat.

Of course, they will serve liquor in glasses. I mean, you try drinking
gin 'n tonic from the bottle.
							FJ!!
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: race based fetishes
Date: 9 Jan 93 04:28:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan9.042801.18449
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1993Jan8.224448.28096@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM> bartlett@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM (Terry Bartlett) writes:
>In article <C0JtBM.91o@queernet.org> rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>>When I went out with Steve, people called me "rice queen" and decided I'd
>>be interested in every Asian guy around.
>
>It could have been worse, Roger.  You could have gone out with me.
>Then what would people have called you?  :-(

Either fucking lucky or lucky fucking...

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: cjlee@netcom.com (Caroline Jean Lee)
Subject: race based fetishes
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 09:28:00 GMT

Tigua's post struck  a familiar chord in me.

Because I am Asian, I have run into lots and lots of white men with
Asian fetishes, especially before I came out as a lesbian.

And yes, I think those fetishes are racist.  I have found it very
dehumanizing and hurtful to interact with men with Asian fetishes,
even when they were otherwise sensitive and kind, or when I only knew
about the fetish afterwards.

It's important to remember that in our society, "race" is a loaded
term, and it carries a lot of baggage with it that does not have
anything to do with physical appearance.  People have a lot 
of stereotypes floating around in their heads, folks, whether
they're aware of it or not. 

For example, one of my co-workers is often mistaken for Latino.  He
has seen people's interest in him change dramatically when they
find out that he is Asian. 

Having to interact with men who see your race first, and the rest of
you after that, has been a common experience in the lives of all the
Asian women I know, and of many ofthe gay Asian men I know.  Those
often hurtful interactions with men with Asian fetishes are part of
what it has meant to be an Asian American woman in this country.

For myself, in the mixed-up time as I was coming out and getting over
my flurries of heterosexual activity, I decided that I would not date
white men anymore because of the associations of colonialism,
mail-order brides, exoticism, etc., as well as the possibility that
once again, the person might be attracted to me because of my race and
because of the associations he might have about Asians.

Since I came out, it's happened that I have only slept with Asian
women and only fooled around with other women of color.  Fortunately,
although some women do have Asian fetishes, it's overwhelmingly a male
thing. (White women tend to be into/appropriate Native American
culture and women instead). Were I to become involved with a white
woman, though, I would have to ask myself the same questions Tigua is
asking now: is my race a factor in their attraction to me? is my race
or "cultural heritage" the part of me that they see first, before
the rest of me? and so on.  They are hard questions to ask.  I emphathize
with Tigua.

Caroline








Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 07:29:50 GMT

Do they honestly truck around perfume in tank trucks?

Hmm... truckers that smell like French cathouses. The mind boggles.
--
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico

      You would be surprised at what resides in your insides.

Newsgroups: soc.motss