From: shiva@b30.ingr.com (Shiva Shivakumar)
Subject: Re: More about India
Organization: Intergraph
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:14:39 GMT

In article <1992Oct08.011737.110690@ua1ix.ua.edu> ngopalas@ha02.eng.ua.edu (Nath S. Gopalaswamy) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.231431.3114@b30.ingr.com>, shiva@b30.ingr.com (Shiva Shivakumar) writes:
>|> In article <1992Oct6.150358.28380@coe.montana.edu> prem@cs.montana.edu (M.P.Premkumar) writes:
>|> 
>|> I sympathize with victims of eve-teasing and other forms of sexual harassment
>|> in India. But I agree with your sentiments.
>
>Crocodile tears.

Thanks for the well thought out judgement ! Just because I did not follow up
the original article with some strongly worded agreement, just because I made
a point to show that there could be other factors at play, ...
>
>|> Talking about men staring and passing comments at women here, well, I do not
>|> think that the nettors will deny that, but it is a question of scale.
>
>Scaled obviously by men's standards. Listen when ALL females responding to this
>thread have said that they do not find it appealing, then something must be 
>wrong when you insist that the problem is "scaled". Not ONE female said that 
>she felt it was exaggerated,maybe you ought to listen to the ones who's opinion
>really matters rather than indulge in some male bonding.
>
>|> 
>|> Also, may be the Indian females find the comments in India crude and the comments
>|> here 'polished'; and the physical characteristics of the people uttering these
>|> comments result in the same comment classified as 'crude eve-teasing' or
>|> 'harmless flirting (how cute!)'.
>
>Sour grapes.

Mister, why do you have to resort to this ?      

So, you believe there is NO bias in judgement. Well, I think there is SOME bias.
Can we agree to disagree decently.

>
>|> 
>|> I couldn't help getting a little annoyed when an Indian girl here once talked
>|> about this 'rowdy' gang in her Banglore college and then said that when men
>|> give compliment here (once a guy admired her in a bathing suit) they do it
>|> so 'decently'...
>|> 
>
>Have you thought about the fact that the style of delivery matters a lot too?
>Men in India ( for the most part) do not "admire", they just hardball the female
>like animals in a cage and strip them bare with their eyes. It is a cold, meth-
>odical task for most, shame is an unknown term to them. I have heard this from
>American men who fear taking their wives and daughters because here if the woman
>stares back the man knows she doesn't like it and usually turns away, but in 
>India if she stares back, the guy thinks she is interested or takes it as a ch
>allenge to outstare her. :-)
>
>|> Jagadisan Shivakumar
>|> 
>|> 
>Nath.

Talking about staring, when my friend walked down Walnut street, Philadelphia,
in a dhoti, he was not only stared at, he also drew some comments from quite
a few people.

When was waiting at an intersection (wearing a kurta) at Penn State, every car
that passed by, people started at me. Agreed, most of them turned away when
I stared back.

About movie heroes harassing heroines - the hero of a Tamil movie (I do not
remember the name) played by Karthik is one such character. While I found
(trust me!)  the movie repulsive for the very reason, a few girls I know
(no sour grape story here, they are as old as my niece!) found Karthik cute
and saw no problem with the movie.

Point I am trying to make (not for Nath, who seems to have classified me, but
others) is in this issue of harassment/staring/eve-teasing, there are other
factors such as observer's bias, curiosity etc.

If anything other than 100% agreement is going to turn people off, I am sorry.

Jagadisan Shivakumar