HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brown@garfield.cs.mun.ca (Ed Brown)
Subject: Re: Killing rolemaster pc's
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 16:44:26 GMT

Marijan_Madunic@panam.wimsey.bc.ca (Marijan Madunic) writes:

>I have a problem (guilty complex) about killing pc's. 

It's a long time since I played, but.. I often filled out a party with
NPC's who drifted in and out of the plot line. One way to take the
sting out of losing a PC is to optionally hand over an NPC to the player. Of
course, it doesn't do anything for emotional attachment to a lost PC,
but it does present a character with some development and background the
player is already familiar with, and also relieves some of the referees/
DMs (insert appropriate term) burden [actually, this latter is the main
reason I would do this].
	EdB
	"Don't touch that, you never know what it might be attached to!"
From: swaim@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Parks Swaim)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Real Sci-Fi Games
Date: 13 Sep 1992 03:21:48 GMT
Organization: Rice University

In article <BuHqCw.G72@acsu.buffalo.edu> v057qkmm@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (BABBLING SAGE) writes:
>	No. Star trek had Green Orion Women.
There was a green orion slave womaN in "The Cage."
Orion pirates appear in "Journey to Babel." FASA considers them something
like hedonistic thieves. 



-- 
Mike Swaim            | Canada will become the next world power
swaim@owlnet.rice.edu | and they will work to ENSLAVE all the nations
Disclamer: I lie      | of your planet. -Ricardo
Cthulhu in '92! The stars are right!
From: millerl@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Incomplete Posts
Date: 12 Sep 92 15:53:41 GMT
Organization: Newt World Order

In article <BuFt71.BHI@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v054nn84@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Foto...Taking pictures again, and Happy for it!) writes:
> Loren,
> 
>    Of COURSE it was incomplete!  I was still trying to use the VT emulation in

Defensive aren't you? Oh well. Some people just have no sense of humor.

-- 
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller                           internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
The more corrupt the government, the greater the number of laws -- Tacitus
Xref: sparky rec.games.frp.advocacy:2181 rec.games.frp:25132 rec.games.frp.misc:5301
From: v057qkmm@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (BABBLING SAGE)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy,rec.games.frp,rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Let's talk REAL sci-Fi systems
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:14:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <65603@cup.portal.com>, Patrick_Andrew_Barnes@cup.portal.com writes...
>"Ok, I'm going to compare Battlelords to those OTHER so-called Sci-fi game
>systems out there." ---  You've already blown your objectivity before you
>even started your comparison.  As far as your $50 bet, since it is entirely
>based upon your opinions and you stand to lose fifty bucks if you admit that
>another game is better than Battlelords, it is obvious to me and probably to
>anyone else with half a brain that your contest is rigged and nobody can
>possibly win.  Why don't you try finding some third party who has no vested
>interest in the outcome and let him or her judge which is the best game?  
	I will consider this. But I didnt say best game I said best system.
I'm willing to admit that other systems have more background, or more rules
governing space combat, etc. Anyhow, I'll think about an independent judge.

I
>don't know about any other readers of this group, but personally seeing a
>littany of characters whose fates are listed as "killed by own party" and 
>seeing the poster was a playtester does not influence me in favor of this
>game.  I left the "You jerk, I wanted that magic sword.  My character kills
>your character." style of gameplay behind in my Jr High School D&D games.


	Well, I have never seen a character who was killed by his own party
in any game of Battlelords I've played in. I'll let the poster of that list
defend his own play. However I'd like to note that in most cases, deaths in
Battlelords result from stupid play. Here's my list of deaths:

	R'staik - pushed into pit of lava after splitting off from party
	Helar - gunned down by .50 cal machine gun when party attacked a tank

	So you can see, not all games of Battlelords are slayfests, as I've 
played more than twice. 

Bluerazor
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: arakins@iastate.edu (Andrew R Akins)
Subject: Re: Real Sci-Fi Games
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:51:26 GMT

  This is all a rather silly discussion.

  I appreciate those of you have have described the
Battlelords game system...I prefer that over reviews.
  The problem with reviews is opinion. Just like some movie
critics trash what I would consider great movies, I'm sure some
of you guys would not like my game choices. And I'm sure that
I would not care for some of yours. So what we (as uninformed
game players) need is simple description of game mechanics and
things that make the game stand out...not "my game is better than
your game" wars...

  Thank you to those of you who took the time to properly describe
the game...I AM going to look into it, it sounds interesting.

  Bluerazor, you lack style. I wouldn't suggest a career in
advertisement....you haven't done much for promoting this
game -- quite the opposite, I think.

  Just for the record, my favorite Sci-Fi rpg is 2300AD. I
know, I know (A lot of you a probibly shaking your heads) but
I thought the history is well thought out, and the Alien races
are TRULY alien, with a great deal of detail thought out. The
Only problem with the system is that by the offical rules, the
Alien races are all NPCs (But, as a clever little GM, I gludged
around that one :) ). I feel the the Kafer Sourcebook was vey
interesting -- it brings an incredible amount of detail to a
bizzare race...

  Well, thats my $.02. Please, by all mean, continue to tell us
about this game...but SUPPORT your arguements, please...

  P.S. Someone asked about Comparing Battlelords and Warhammer 40K.
In my opinion this is not a fair comparison, since BL is a RPG and
WH40K is a tabletop miniatures game (which I happen to enjoy a lot).

-- Andrew Akins
   aka Brother Andrek
   Iowa State University
   arakins@iastate.edu
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why TW2000 eats wormy dog turds.
Keywords: TW2000
Date: 13 Sep 92 16:05:27 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

bcd@fang.att.com (Brendan Dwyer) writes:


>    TW2000 has got some major flaws to it.  They say each charater must eat
>three kilos(6.6lbs) of food per day.  Yeah (said in a Wayne Campbell voice).
>The U.S. Army tries 3500 calories per day per troop.  If you ate 6.6 lbs
>of rice per day that would be more than 3500 calories.  BTW, the Viet Cong
>used to survive on a handful of rice per day for weeks on end. 
 
 Change that if you don't like it. However, how long the Viet Cong can 
 survive on low food isn't relevant to how long a much larger Western
 combat soldier can do the same and maintain his strength. (In game
 terms, you need the 6.6 lbs to make sure your stats don't go to
 hell. Given that you have a person with STR: 10, how much do you
 think he has to eat per day to keep himself in that kind of shape?
 A heck of a lot more than 3500 calories. The 3 kilos is an average
 intake.)

Next, a  M1911 .45 cal pistol does 2D6 of damage per round.

[stuff about nonrealistic damage]

The damage in Twilight is unrealistic. Yes. The damage from modern weapons
is unrealistic in every roleplaying game out there, except maybe the
Pheonix Command based ones and SR II on ultra-deadly. The reason is that
character survivability would be nil if the weapon damage was realistic.

Axly
Xref: sparky rec.games.frp.advocacy:2192 rec.games.frp.misc:5319
From: sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy,rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Let's talk REAL sci-Fi systems
Date: 11 Sep 92 00:03:46 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

Well,
 
After watching this Bluerazor guy scramble desperately to defend his 
original, illconceived post, I just have a couple things to say.

1. Seawasp is right. This game's PR has been damaged, maybe beyond 
   repair. Who set this guy loose on the net? Is he in charge of
   advertising? I couldn't even remember the name of the game after
   the first post, just that the ``PR'' came straight from jr. high.

2. It's getting really hard to find the patience to read posts by
   anyone with the ``v05xx..'' usernames. Between that Skeeziks guy
   and his half-complete posts (usually without ANY text from the
   thread) and this Bluerazor and his take all comers post, I just want
   to stick with usernames I've read before.

3. I am really interested to see if Bluerazor will be shamed into 
   coming clean on this $50 deal. I don't understand why anyone would
   bet more than a can of Coke on an rpg (especially when it will come
   down to personal preference and Bluerazor will lose his $50). Also,
   I am wondering if Bluerazor will honor the $50 deal to more than one
   person. Is there a waiting list? Can I get on it?

4. How many times will Bluerazor post ``okay, I shouldn't have said it
   that way,'' before he just breaks down and says, ``OKAY! I was drunk 
   when I wrote that post! The game sucks! I've never even played it! 
   I just liked the cover art and I was feeling REALLY cocky!'' 

5. Where is this Simms guy? Did he write the game? Does he have net 
   access? Is he really in the army? Does he know Mr. Bluerazor is 
   making his game look so bad?

Umm. I think that about covers it.

Okay,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chadd VanZanten SL9B4@CC.USU.EDU + ``My karma ran over my dogma.'' --Unknown
From: quirk@pioneer.unm.edu (Gym Z. Quirk)
Subject: Re: Real Sci-Fi Games
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 23:10:20 GMT
Organization: Nit-Pickers for a Better Tomorow Afternoon

In article <1992Sep12.201414.7875@honte.uleth.ca> std_fleming@hg.uleth.ca writes:
>In article <20vnync@lynx.unm.edu>, quirk@pioneer.unm.edu (Gym Z. Quirk) writes:
>>In article <BuFC47.1q0@acsu.buffalo.edu> v057qkmm@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (BABBLING SAGE) writes:
>>>In article <BuF9Dp.7x6@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly) writes...
>>>>>v057qkmm@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (BABBLING SAGE) writes:
>>>>>      Eridani: Warriors dedicated to the perfection of the Self.
>>>> 
>>>>       Gee, sound familiar to anyone else?
>>> 
>>>	Yeah, it's a part of a name of a star system. So?
>>
>>Well, ask any veteran Trekk{ie,er,ist} what Vulcan's home star
>>is...;-)
>
>   Hey!  Aren't "Orion Rogues" lifted from STAR TREK, too?

Come to think of it, yeah...Orion Pirates, anyway. ;-)

>>>>Axly
>>>
>>>Bluerazor
>>
>>Capt. Gym Z. Quirk  (Known to some as Taki Kogoma)  quirk@pioneer.unm.edu
>
>John Fleming                            EMAIL ADDRESS: STD_FLEMING@HG.ULETH.CA

-- 
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk  (Known to some as Taki Kogoma)  quirk@pioneer.unm.edu
 I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to
                          what I have now...
From: thantos@runic.via.mind.org (Paul Williams [SysOp])
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Killing rolemaster pc's
Date: 7 Sep 92 19:48:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: runic.78XqqB1w165w
Organization: Runic Writings / Lawrenceville, GA

Marijan_Madunic@panam.wimsey.bc.ca (Marijan Madunic) writes:

> I have a problem (guilty complex) about killing pc's. After all they do
> spend a couple of hours creating these pc's. Can anybody help me in getting
> over this problem.

Sure.  Do it.  Simply sey up some "unescapable" situations for some of
your players.

And who knows, they might show you a thing or two about "unescapable."
That's part of the reason I don't have super-strong qualms about
throwing them into such situations.  They'll live or die, and they'd
prefer to live.  Where's the adventure without the danger?



---
thantos@runic.via.mind.org (Paul Williams [SysOp])
Runic Writings
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: spzkny@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES ZAKANY)
Subject: Re: Killing rolemaster pc's
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date:  8 Sep 1992 12:05 EST  

In article <Bu7BE6.1Lv@acsu.buffalo.edu>,
 v054nn84@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu
 (Foto...Taking pictures again, and Happy for it!) writes...

>In article <Marijan_Madunic.048h@panam.wimsey.bc.ca>,
 Marijan_Madunic@panam.wimsey.bc.ca (Marijan Madunic) writes...

>>I have a problem (guilty complex) about killing pc's. After all they do
>>spend a couple of hours creating these pc's. Can anybody help me in getting
>>over this problem.

>Sorry, but I have the same problem no matter how much or how little time is
>spent creating a character...

Ahhh, misguided youth... ;-)
Actually, PC mortality plays a very important part in role playing.  The 
threat of it builds excitement into the game.  If a character dies, a 
character dies.  No biggie.  Even death isn't a permanent condition in most 
fantasy scenerios!  Tragedies make great stories (a mage in my game has 
this great story 'bout how he lost his arm to a swamp dragon, for example). 

'Course, if you happen to kill the entire party, it COULD be YOUR fault
(but even this isn't a "given"...I've had entire groups commit mass suicide 
before...).
					James S. Zakany
From: acd@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (andrew.c.durston)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Killing rolemaster pc's
Summary: Situations
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:53:23 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <7=rnd_q.akuma@netcom.com>, akuma@netcom.com (Steven E Barnes) writes:
> In article <reynolds.715898446@judy.cs.iastate.edu>, reynolds@cs.iastate.edu (Owen Reynolds) writes:
> > Marijan_Madunic@panam.wimsey.bc.ca (Marijan Madunic) writes:
> > >I have a problem (guilty complex) about killing pc's. After all they do
> > >spend a couple of hours creating these pc's. Can anybody help me in getting
> > >over this problem.
> This is ignoring the real problem.  No matter how good you are,
> some twerp can walk up to you, open-end his attack, then roll
> high on his crit and kill you.  As a recent example, a character
> got attacked by a squirrel while crossing a rope bridge.  The GM
> rolled an 00 on the tiny-animal crit and killed him outright 
> (this wasn't even taking the 100 foot fall into account).
	Just wondering...how did this situation come about? If a young squire
	or serf got lucky and offed the PC, then that was his fate ( I don't
	like fate points due to the "invicibility complex" as you described ).
	But a squirrel? If it was summoned and controlled, perhaps. I find that
	players are MOST frustrated when they are killed when it is not relevant
	to the story/situation at hand, game system not withstanding.
> 
> Considering the huge amount of time required to create a RM
> character, death should not be so arbitraty.
	Depends on the tempo of the campaign and how the "combat" situations
	occur. As a GM, I'm willing to give a player an NPC or help generate
	a new PC when he/she gets offed, but I don't give breaks. The PCs are
	good enough a finding ways around "seeming death" ( dead in X rounds
	crits or dead but soul hasn't left yet ) in my and other games.
	If the player enjoys the game and system, he/she will be back for more.
> 
> >     Your players need you to be able to slaughter them if they do the
> > wrong thing. There's nothing worse than a GM who lets you get yourself
> > into a really bad situation and then bullshit your way out. Your
> > players need to know, for example, if they hadn't made that grappnel
> > cast on the first throw, the worm of death would have caught up with
> > them and would very probably have slain them all.
> There is nothing worse than spending hours creating a new character
> at the current campaign level, only to have him die pointlessly because
> he failed some trivial dice roll.
	If it isn't relevant to the plot, dump the dice roll and continue
	onward. Given Rolemaster's complexity, I try to avoid trivial dice
	rolls when ever possible.

	More IMHOs from,
	ACDurston,..!att!hotld!acd
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: quirk@pioneer.unm.edu (Gym Z. Quirk)
Subject: Re: Real Sci-Fi Games
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 01:48:01 GMT
Organization: Nit-Pickers for a Better Tomorow Afternoon

In article <BuDyuL.22o@acsu.buffalo.edu> v057qkmm@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (BABBLING SAGE) writes:
>	Ok, since you _asked_ about the races, I will give a quick summary:
>
>	Chatilian Empath: Small "Asparagus Men" with mental powers.

Gee.  More psis.

>	Cizerack: Female cats with incredible agility.

All females?  Must make propogating the species a real challenge. ;-)

>	Eridani: Warriors dedicated to the perfection of the Self.

*Ho Hum*  Yet another warrior race...

>	Gen Humans: Genetically engineered humans.

Which dates back to Space Opera, if not earlier.

>	Humans: What needs be said?
>	Mazians: Amoeba-like creatures with the ability to change shape.

Oh.  Shoggoths.

>	Mutzachans: "Melon Heads" with the power to manipulate energy.

Gee.  I have a flashlight.  I can manipulate light!  Care to
elaborate?

>	Orion Rogues: Seven-fingered humanoids who like to party.

What differs these guys from your average party of PCs?  (Asside from
the quadradecimal math, that is. ;-)

>[Etc.]

Any Space GM with an immagination could come up with any of the above.
How much thought has been given to the forces that caused these
traits?  How do the societies function?  How do they view the
universe?  How do they view each other?

In essence, are these 'neato cool' alien races actually alien?  Or are
they just 'humans in alien suits'?

>Bluerazor

-- 
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk  (Known to some as Taki Kogoma)  quirk@pioneer.unm.edu
 I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to
                          what I have now...
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: juklehto@sara.cc.utu.fi
Subject: Re: Killing rolemaster pc's
Organization: University of Turku, Finland
Date: 8 Sep 92 11:10:23 EET

article <7=rnd_q.akuma@netcom.com>, akuma@netcom.com (Steven E Barnes) writes:
> rolled an 00 on the tiny-animal crit and killed him outright 
> (this wasn't even taking the 100 foot fall into account).
> 
> Considering the huge amount of time required to create a RM
> character, death should not be so arbitraty.
> 
> There is nothing worse than spending hours creating a new character
> at the current campaign level, only to have him die pointlessly because
> he failed some trivial dice roll.
> 
> The solution our GMs use is fate points (spend a fate point to
> survive a lethal wound).  Considering that my character went
> thru all four of his points in about 8 games, I consider something
> like this essential for RM.  The only problem is that gives the
> players a sense of invincibility ("So what, the worst that happens 
> is that I lose a fate point"). 
> 
> -steve
     I have a bit different problem. Couple of PC's are level 15 - 20.
They cannot be hit even by two open-ended in a row and when hit they
have almost automatic lifekeeping/lifegiving. I wasn't GM when they 
became such and now when I am GM I cannot throw in anything heavy
enough to blast them. (God could blast them but that wouldn't be
very reasonable either.)

Lehtonen JV
juklehto@sara.cc.utu.fi
Xref: sparky rec.games.frp.advocacy:2172 rec.games.frp:25128 rec.games.frp.misc:5279
From: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy,rec.games.frp,rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Let's talk REAL sci-Fi systems
Keywords: The best
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:51:07 GMT
Reply-To: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Organization: Columbia University

peters@physics.ubc.ca (Dan Peters) writes:
>>		GURP - Get real. Want to play a generic system which 
>>	requires you to buy an infinite supply of supplements? I like 
>>	my games specific.
>
>Sure, there are advantages to a "specific" system (like less thought required
>for the GM to set up a campaign). But ...
>if you think of a neat
>idea yourself, the only published piece of rpg material around that will give
>you any help setting up the campaign that *you* want to run is GURPS/Space. 
>(At least, the only one I know of.) Just an example of the beauty of GURPS.

	I would agree that I can think of no other published material about 
setting up general science fiction campaigns, although there is no lack of 
science fiction games giving general campaign advice. GURPS Space does throw 
around alot of ideas about possible campaigns, but beyond that its not much 
different than lots of other science fiction games. 
	However, there is nothing in GURPS which makes it better suited to 
adapting to new science fiction campaigns than a variety of other systems. 
It is one of the few games that is marketed to be adapted to many settings, 
but other systems can be adapted just as well. 

	When I ran my cyberpunk game using Twilight 2000 rules, the best 
helps to me were 'Guns, Guns, Guns', stuff from the Cyberpunk game on 
corporations, and T2K stuff on vehicles. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Kim                    | "Deservin's got nothing to do with it."
jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu |
Columbia University         |                - William Munny, 'Unforgiven'
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: trip@cco.caltech.edu (Trip)
Subject: Re: Real Sci-Fi Games
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 00:49:30 GMT

v121mhb5@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (D.O.G. of S.A.R.P.A.) writes:

>As a roleplaying game, here's the scoop.  Each of the races has its
>own very strong sense of characteristics and personalities.  If you're
>not an experienced role-player, picking a race whose "personality"
>matches your own usually leads to better role-playing than you might
>normally be capable of.

Neat. Even better than writing your alignment on your shield.

>Lastly, judging by the people who've been posting on behalf of the
>game, you might be thinking that it is some sort of ultra-violent
>munchkin fest. [...] If you like customizing your character's
>personality, stick to GURPS (where, IMHO, the combat system bites the
>big one).

Enough said, I think.

Trip				|   Never be the first to believe
President, ECNG			|   Never be the last to deceive
(trip@cobalt.cco.caltech.edu)	|   Nobody's on nobody's side
				|			-_Chess_
From: v054nn84@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Foto...Taking pictures again, and Happy for it!)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Time and judgement
Date: 5 Sep 92 23:15:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

I am not familiar enough with GURPS to be able to comment on the system at all,
much less intelligently, but no matter what game I am refereeing I always try
to moderate the combat with some sense (both common and cinemagraphic) to allow
players to move and adjust.  Game mechanics are fine but there comes a time
when for the same of entertainment you have to set them aside for the fun of
all.  I won;t say for the good of all, but for the fun of all.  

Skeksis - Me transmitte sursum, Caledoni
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: ketil@struts.ii.uib.no (Ketil M. Malde)
Subject: Re: I concede (was Re: Alignments)
Reply-To: ketil@ii.uib.no
Organization: student of computer science at the University of Bergen, Norway
Distribution: rec
Date: 8 Sep 92 22:42:28

In article <6282@armltd.uucp> dseal@armltd.co.uk (David Seal) writes:

   From: dseal@armltd.co.uk (David Seal)
   Date: 7 Sep 92 15:34:13 GMT

   >O.K. guys, I concede.  Alignments suck.  

   What? Concede?? On rec.games.frp.ADVOCACY???

   You can't do that - you're breaking all the rules...

Yeah, must be chaotic!

--
 = Ketil Malde                     In real life:  ketil@ii.uib.no =
 = Nuke the whales!                    Honk if you love unicorns! =