HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: AL Cy Young update
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:08:34 GMT
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853


Jack Morris pitched a strong game last night for his 17th win.  He is
now 17-5, despite having a poor ERA (still over 4.00, I believe).  He
got very lucky for the first part of the season, scoring some
extraordinary come-from-behind wins.  But recently, he has actually
pitched well!  Finally warming up for the post-season?

Clemens pitches tonight.  I think the rest of the serious contenders
start Saturday.

Some other recent performances:

Navarro lost to Morris, giving up 5 runs in seven innings, and is now
14-9 with a moderately good ERA.

Melido Perez shut out the Twins.  His ERA is around 3.00, but his
record is a mediocre 11-13.

Viola pitched 10 innings Wednesday night, beating Oakland 2-1.  He
allowed only 6 hits, 3 walks, and one run.

Mussina continues to slump.  He is looking somewhat more hittable
recently.

Stottlemyre pitched a complete game, one-hit, one-walk, shutout.
He is still a dog.  Avoid him at all costs in your fantasy league!

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Clemens may not win his 4th CY, but he still rules!	tedward@cs.cornell.edu
From: gene@ok.sw.stratus.com (Eugene Loparco)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Ugliest *ever* (was: Re: Ugliest Man in Baseball??)
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:34:55 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering

In article <3SEP199209395268@mary.fordham.edu> nissim@mary.fordham.edu (Leonard J. Nissim) writes:
>In article <1SEP92.20311267@vax.clarku.edu> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:
>>I had thought that Randy Johnson was the ugliest active player
>>[...]
>>
>>Heather
>>HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
>
>Bill James, in "The Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract" (1985) gives the 
>ugliest player(s) in each decade, in his opinion:
>
>1870's: Charlie Gould
>1880's: Jim Whitney
>1890's: Fred Tenney
>1900's: Hal Chase, Addie Joss
>1910's: "Rabbit" Maranville
>1920's: Joe Martina
>1930's: Ernie Lombardi, "Suitcase" Seeds
>1940's: Ewell Blackwell
>1950's: **Don Mossi** (**Ugliest of All-time**)
>1960's: Bill Skowron, Dick Donovan
>1970's: George Foster
>
>A picture of Mossi is on page 219 of the hard-cover edition, and he is ugly 
>enough to frighten small children.  James' description:
>     "Mossi's ears looked as if they had been borrowed from a much larger 
>species, and reattached without proper supervision.  His nose was crooked, 
>his eyes were in the wrong place, and ... he had no neck to speak of, just
>a series of chins that melted into his chest."

What an asshole.  I know that everybody is having fun with this thread and
I see nothing wrong with that, but did Bill James really take the time to
research this and then print it in his book!?  It seems like he is insulting
the guy big-time and lowering his own respectibility and credibility at the 
same time.  What is this garbage doing in a book?

By the way, I'm not flaming you, just Bill James who I am sure looks
strikingly similar to Cary Grant...


-Gene
From: jtchern@ocf.berkeley.edu (Joseph Hernandez)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: MLB Magic Numbers for Thu, Sep 01st, 1992
Date: 1 Sep 92 15:56:07 GMT
Organization: Joseph TeleCommunications Enterprises; Berkeley, California, USA
Via: JTC Enterprises Major League Baseball Department (Statistics Division)
     JTC Enterprises Sports Sector (Information Department)


       MAGIC NUMBERS OF DIVISION LEADERS FOR TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 01, 1992

          [NOTE: Includes all of yesterday's games; i-idle yesterday
                   z-won yesterday or split a doubleheader.]

NATIONAL WEST		 MN	        	NATIONAL EAST		 MN
Atlanta	Braves		z--		        Pittsburgh Pirates	i--
Cincinnati Reds		 27		        Montreal Expos		z30
San Diego Padres	 25		        Chicago Cubs		z26
Houston Astros          z16		        St. Louis Cardinals     z24
San Francisco Giants    i15		        New York Mets            20
Los Angeles Dodgers	  8		        Philadelphia Phillies	 13

AMERICAN WEST		 MN 		        AMERICAN EAST		 MN
Oakland Athletics	 --		        Toronto Blue Jays	z--
Minnesota Twins         z25		        Baltimore Orioles	z30
Chicago White Sox        23		        Milwaukee Brewers	z27
Texas Rangers		 15		        Detroit Tigers           19
Kansas City Royals      z13		        Boston Red Sox           17
California Angels        11		        Cleveland Indians       z17
Seattle Mariners	z 7		        New York Yankees         17
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Joseph TeleCommunications Enterprises World Headquarters
*****  *****  *****  jtchern@ocf.Berkeley.EDU          jtcent@soda.Berkeley.EDU
    *    *    *      jhernand@nyx.cs.DU.EDU                    josephhz@IDS.NET
    *    *    *      cb085@cleveland.Freenet.EDU      jph@m-net.ann-arbor.MI.US
*****    *    *****  University of California, Berkeley, California, USA  94720
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: satrape@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (James V Satrape)
Subject: Orioles sign 30 year lease
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 12:06:42 GMT


In today's (9/2) Baltimore Sun: the Orioles and the city of Baltimore
agree to a 30 year lease for Camden Yards, replacing the 15 year agreement
the Orioles signed prior to construction of the new park.  Other than
the extension of the term, the primary change seems to be in the way
the stadium rent is determined.  Previously, the Orioles rent was a
percentage of their "profits", they typically paid high rent in years
they did very well, and sometimes no rent in other years.  Recently, this
formula has caused some problems between the tenant and landlord, specifically
related to what expenses could be deducted from the gross income.  The
new formula gives Baltimore city a cut of the ticket sales, concessions,
parking, and advertising.

Rumor is that Eli Jacobs is trying to sell the team, and the recent 
actions (signing of Ripken and new lease) are designed to make the team
seem more appealling.  (Take it for what it's worth, I didn't make up the
rumor).

Jim  satrape@polaris.me.jhu.edu
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Detroit Tigers
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:45:33 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <1992Sep3.015527.1809@cs.wayne.edu> dfl@math.wayne.edu (David Frohardt-Lane) writes:
>I'm not quit sure about the draft rules, and the rules for protecting
>players, but anyway here's my list of who the Tigers will protect.

You don't have to protect players who are free agents, so I think
Lou Whitaker and Trammell can be struck from the list.


-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rlopez@loanstar.tamu.edu (Robert Lopez)
Subject: Re: Sold out???
Keywords: eat more scalped moose
Organization: The Hosequarium South
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 18:47:24 GMT

In article <67072@hydra.gatech.EDU>, gt4925b@prism.gatech.EDU (Jason Woodward) writes:
|>
|> I've been to several sellouts this year and seen people purchasing
|> tickets - from scalpers for 4 to 10 times the face value.  If any
|> tickets were available at the box office, people wouldn't pay
|> scalpers the high prices.
|> 

Well, not necessarily.  I haven't been to Braves games, but at other
ballparks I find that most of the box office-available seats the day of
the game stink.  I can get damn good seats from someone else.  Although I
must say I will never go x4 or x10.  Most I'll ever choke up is x2 and
that's for a really good sounding game.  Too bad the really good sounding
games sometimes suck.

I will say that this all seems more true at football games and concerts,
but I have good luck at baseball games too.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------
Robert E. L\'{o}pez       |       Internet:
Texas LoanSTAR Program    |       rlopez@loanstar.tamu.edu
The Hosequarium South     |       rlopez@cs.tamu.edu
----------------------------------------------------------
                 Texas A&M University 
                   boohoo.onyou.edu
----------------------------------------------------------
From: zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Under The Gun Huckabay)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Positioning of netters in hypothetical baseball games.
Keywords: Dove Bar, Hrbek, Yummy, Fielder's Choice=Pizza.
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:31:31 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Short, Squat Pitchers, Ltd. (Forster Division)

Val writes:
>In article <Bu17D3.AFv@cs.dal.ca> niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gordon Niguma) writes:
>>
>>Niguma    		2B 
>>Nelson Lu 		CF 
>>Valentine  		C 
>>Lance Smith		3B
>>Sherri Nichols    	SS
>>David Tate		1B
>>Steve Stein		LF
>>David Grabiner	RF
>>Gary Huckabay		 P
>
>Why does everybody put me at catcher?  Are you implying that I am
>short and squat?  Do you figure it to be the least critical position
>for slow-pitch softball?  Or is it that you want to see me in one
>of my famous home-plate collisions?

I did it because masks, like Harold Brooks' thighs, are inherently
erotic.  Sorta.  Ok, well, maybe not.  That's what Kirsch told me.

Trust me, Val, in this lineup, you'd not be the shortest and
squattest.  Your batterymate would be.  I look sort of like a red
headed Mike LaValliere, but with more hair and bigger biceps.

5'9" and 20x# doesn't buy you much in the way of lanky.

And WHY the hell am I hitting ninth?  Tate wouldn't take a pitch if it
hit him in the teeth.  He consumes more outs than Joe Carter at a
Shriners' BellyButton Festival.  And with Gord Niguma hitting behind
me, I'm going to get nothing but curveballs.

Jeez.



-- 
*  Gary Huckabay  * "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHH!" *
*  "Stalking the  * - G. Huckabay, E. Gelatt, J. Zuhars, B. Lynn,        *
*     Alderson    *   D. Cleary, S. Tegenfeldt, D. White, J. Chu, D. Lo, *
*    Household."  *   K. Low, A. Rubin, L. Patrick, Aug. 31, 1992.       *
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kirk@benchman.b11.ingr.com (Kirk Boley)
Subject: Rangers games
Followup-To: rec.sport.baseball
Organization: None whatsoever
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 19:12:21 GMT

	I'll be in Dallas from 9/19 - 9/25, and I was wondering if
the Rangers are going to be in town that week. Also, if someone would
let me know a phone number to call to order tickets, that would be
great. Email only, please.

						Thanks in Advance,

						Kirk


-- 
*******************************************************************************
Standard disclaimer.  |   Kirk Boley, Intergraph Huntsville, UAH
Witty .sig message.   |   16 hours to go.     kirk@benchman.b11.ingr.com
*******************************************************************************
From: gds@LA.TIS.COM (Greg Skinner)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cone and Overwork?
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:37:08 GMT
Reply-To: gds@la.TIS.COM (Greg Skinner)
Organization: Trusted Information Systems, Inc., Los Angeles, CA

In article <BtvACG.JCH@news.cso.uiuc.edu> Harold Brooks writes:
>While watching Cito Gaston sit transfixed in the Toronto dugout
>as David Cone started to unravel Saturday, Jim Kaat brought up
>the point that Cone had not been as effective in the last month
>in New York as earlier in the year.  We've had some discussion
>about Torborg allowing Cone to reach huge pitch totals with 
>the Mets and I began to wonder if it wasn't part of a plan.

>Consider the possibility that the Mets decided early in the
>season that they were not going to be able to re-sign Cone.
>At that point, they have absolutely no interest in him being
>an effective pitcher in 1993 (unless they would like him to 
>be worse than in the past).  They might have told Torborg at 
>that time to use Cone as much as he wanted to, without regard
>to possible long-term ill effects.

I recall reading an article in the LA Times about Cone and the 166
pitch game.  He was quoted as saying that he felt it was necessary to
stay in and complete the game.  This game was played back when the
Mets had a chance to get back in the race -- Pittsburgh was struggling
and the Mets were somewhere around .500.

I think despite Cone's protestations, Torborg has an obligation to
remove him from the game if he's exceeded a reasonable pitch count.
If there was some kind of conspiracy going on to use Cone up for the
'92 season and then (try to) get rid of him down the stretch (assuming
the Mets weren't in contention), or let him leave via free agency, I
think this is pretty scary.

A co-worker of mine and I have been talking about overworked pitchers
and we feel that Valenzuela became ineffective and Ramon Martinez is
ineffective now is from all those innings Lasorda had him throw.

--gregbo
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Subject: Bad Game Scores
Keywords: pounding, bombs, painful memories
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:27:27 GMT


David Wells recent 'gem' against the Brewers raised the subject of 
recent bad game scores.
This isn't all that recent anymore, but it's still pretty bad...
On August 14, 1977 the Brewres (51-67) had a double header 
at Cleveland (50-63) - a fight for fifth place.
The Brewers started Jim Slaton and lost 12-4. His line:
               IP     H R ER BB SO GS
Slaton (L8-12) 4-2/3 11 8  8  2  2 10
 he also hit Duane Kuiper with a pitch.
The CG winner was Wayne Garland (10-13, GS:58)

In game 2, the Brewers started Bill Travers (their ace in '76)
We lost 14-5. Travers' line:
               IP     H  R ER BB SO GS
Travers (L4-6) 7-2/3 18 14 14  4  4 -13
 Travers threw 2WP, Charlie Moore had a PB and Travers hit a batter.
He still came within 1 out of a complete game.
(Bob McClure finished up. Maybe that and Yount's 3-for-7 
make it count as recent :-)

How's that for a 'great' doubleheader?

The Brewers were managed by Alex 'winning tradition' Grammas who 
managed to hold the Brewers back in '76 & '77, 
letting them become the first team this century to have a 
'Great Leap Forward'(GLF in '78) and follow it with an 
even better season the next year.

john rickert
rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jhg8680@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon  Hamkins)
Subject: Re: Baseball and Billions
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:56:07 GMT

miked@pterodactyl.cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Davey) writes:

> The issue is not and has never been should the game be removed from 
>the control of the owners. It has been should the commissioner have the power 
>to protect the game from owners whose vision is extremely short and who would
>prefer to make obscene amounts of money by instituting practices that 
>are unreasonable in the light of current circumstances. 

   If the commissioner has the power to overrule the owners, then the
owners do *not* have control.  When you claim that the commissioner
should have these powers, you are also making a statement on what
powers the owners shouldn't have.  It's all the same issue, and to
try to discuss them as if they were separate doesn't make sense.

     ----Jon Hamkins  (hamkins@uiuc.edu)
         University of Illinios
         Urbana, IL
From: miked@pterodactyl.cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Davey)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Baseball and Billions
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:22:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science

In article <1992Aug26.200720.19337@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:


	This whole thing is ridiculous. You are not reading my posts carefully
and are answering questions with questions that are not related to the original
questions. The last time you participated in a discussion of this length
on the net, you ended up invoking some pseudo-relgious crap to make your
point that stats do not describe accurately and precisely all the
different aspects of the game. Now, you keep arguing that because the state
of the game and the owners are better than they were in the past, there is 
no grounds to criticize them now. And if we are upset with something, we should
just use our power as free and equal participants in an open market to get 
what we want. Sorry, honey, (sorry about the mysogeny, but your ignorance 
forces me to act out of character) but as I have tried to explain, it is not
an open market dynamic, and just because something is better than it used to 
be, does not mean we are not justified in criticizing it in its present 
incarnation. You will not even admit there are problems with the present
state of the game such as incredibly high salaries, player apathy, t.v. money
that only allows the big franchises to get richer and other things which you
only need to look at some of the other Sports leagues to realize that things
need to be changed if baseball is to continue to survive. Taking all this into
account, it seems to me that giving the owners all the power is too mistake 
that the fans and players have an equal stake in the whole affair, and since 
we fans cannot really affect things, a strong commissioner in system of 
checks and balances might be effective in curbing stupid and/or greedy owner
behavior (like the Cubs' lawsuit, which is both) when it occurs. Read the 
stuff in BB weekly and try and justify the dumping of Chandler for 
intergrating the big leagues and further try and deny that this *kind* of 
behavior still occurs and obviously, the owners need to have some system
in place to prevent their ignorance (when it occurs, mind you, as obviously not
every owner or owner decision is stupid) from screwing things up.

--Mike D.-

 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: drraymon@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca (Darrell Raymond)
Subject: Re: DAVID CONE TO BLUE JAYS
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 20:13:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.162943.13131@cs.cornell.edu>, tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
> 
> No, White did *adequately* last year.  Even then, his OBP wasn't very
> good.  And this year?  How many bases do you have to steal to justify
> a .283 OBP in the leadoff spot?  His defense is great, but his offense
> seriously hurts the team in the leadoff spot.  Can't they hide him
> somewhere like sixth or ninth in the order?

  Ok, explain why, please.  Here's my own dumb analysis:

  The difference in averages between Manny and Devon is going to get
you about 20 more hits over a comparable number of at-bats.  Maybe 1
in 4 of these occurs in the first inning, which is the only time that
being leadoff matters.  So you're talking about 5 hits over the whole
season, maybe 2 in the time they've got left.  Isn't it worth gambling
those hits for the chance that White may stumble into a hot streak,
hopefully during the ALCS?  If we're using hindsight, I think Manny's 
shown he's not durable enough to have maintained his average and OBP 
if he had put in the 140 at bats he's already behind Devon.  Maybe it
worked out better to reduce Manny's workload.  Finally, we certainly 
don't want Manny getting hurt again, especially not if the result is 
that Griffin leads off :-)

  The idea of swapping Devon with Candy is interesting - leadoff gets a
bit more power, stil pretty fast, and a better average. On the downside 
you're going to get more walks to Winfield.
  
-Darrell.
From: mjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Sabatella)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:05:39 GMT
Subject: Re: Managing in the AL
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

In rec.sport.baseball, miked@cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Davey) writes:

> My friend
> commented that managing doesn`t really matter that much in the AL due
> to the DH (obviously).  I`d like to see some reasonable postings

Your friend is a moron.

Not reasonable enough :-?

Here's my take on it.  Sure there are lots of extra decisions engendered by
having a pitcher in the batting order.  However, most of them are so easy my
grandmother could make them.  Pitcher comes up in the early innings with men
on, you bunt.  Same situation late in the game, you pinch hit.  Big, fat, hairy
deal.  Maybe once every other game, you have an actual difficult choice - ie,
seventh inning, no one on, score is 1-1, starting pitcher doing well, do you
really want to pinch hit for him or not.  But consider when you have a "real"
hitter in the #9 slot, you get none of those automatic sure thing decisions.
Since we know the sacrifice is usually a bad strategy in the early going, do we
really want the #9 hitter with the .230 BA to bunt the runner over to second?
Given that we don't have an essentially infinite bullpen of shortstops, do we
really pinch hit for him when he comes up in the seventh with runners in
scoring position?

Having a pitcher in the lineup adds a few extra hoops to go through, but I
don't equate that with difficulty or importance on managing skill.  The analogy
I'd make is to, say, proving a mathematical theorem versus adding a long column
of numbers without a calculator.  Sure, the latter may be more constantly
demanding, but much of the extra work is mere tedium.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc "Dave" Sabatella		Disclaimer: OPS is not the One True Statistic
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com		that makes all others obsolete
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mmmm - po-ta-to chips!" - John Stuart Mill
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kasper@sscvx1.ssc.gov
Subject: Re: Pitchers who can hit
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 13:52:37 GMT

Of non-pitchers active in 1991, the WORST hitters as measured by career runs
created per game (2500 minimum at bats) were Alfredo Griffin (3.06 rc/g) and
Ozzie Guillen (3.13 rc/g).  The BEST hitting pitchers (250 minimum at bats)
were Don Robinson (2.88 rc/g) and Dennis Rasmussen and Rick Sutcliffe (1.80
rc/g !!!!).  So much for "good-hitting pitchers."

Raph Kasper
kasper@sscvx1
Xref: sparky rec.sport.baseball:25707 ba.sports:505
From: chuq@gallant.apple.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball,ba.sports
Subject: Re: More on the possible sale of the Giants
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:09:22 GMT
Organization: I is a writur

rickc@wrigley.corp.sgi.com (Richard Casares) writes:

>I just heard on the radio that George Shinn, the owner of
>the Charlotte Hornets who has been haralded as the white
>knight who'll keep the Giants in SF, is in no financial position
>to purchase the team.

This report evidently came from a mucky-muck of the WLAF, with whom Shinn is
having various arguments about who owes who what.

Ralph Barbieri on KNBR interviewed the reporter who covers the Charlotte
team and the NBA for one of the local papers, and he says that the reports
are, as far as he can tell, bogus and that if Shinn says he has the money,
then he has the money.

The source of the rumor seems to have a few axes to grind, so I'd take it
with a big grain of salt.

(on the other hand, the guy also made a number of comments that make me
wonder if the cure is worse than the disease, but I guess it's better to
have a slim chance with an idiot running the team than no chance at all. At
least for now)

-- 
Chuq "IMHO" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX) =+= Member, SFWA
  chuq@apple.com | GEnie: MAC.BIGOT | ALink:CHUQ =+= Editor, OtherRealms
	A real SF writur with stories in ALTERNATE KENNEDYS and THE 
	  FURTHER ADVENTURES OF BATMAN, in better bookstores now!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball