From: akbloom@aplcenmp.apl.jhu.edu (Keith Bloom)
Subject: Re: Prayer in Public Schools
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University
	<73956@hydra.gatech.EDU>
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 18:17:59 GMT

rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:

kilroy@gboro.glassboro.edu (Dr Nancy's Sweetie) writes:

>>When criticised by Paul Harvey as blindly following Pat Robertson, Mr Pitts
>>responded by saying that he'd never mentioned Pat Robertson, but rather
>>only the name of Jesus, who Mr Pitts claims to serve.

>>Very well then; please provide a reference to instructions from Jesus which
>>support governmentally organised public prayers.  If you cannot provide any
>>such reference from Jesus, explain why you believe that government-run public
>>prayers are something Christians should support.

I hope I'm not stepping on Mr. Provine's lines, but I too am
interested in this question.  Mr. Pitts replies:

>I did not say nor to my knowledge does the movement want GOVERNMENT-RUN 
>PUBLIC PRAYERS.  There is a difference - you take it to an extreme - the 
>request if for a time period for prayer - NOT government-run public prayer.  

When asked a straightforward question, Mr. Pitts evades it with a
quibble about whether the government would really be running the prayers.
When the government provides a space, and sets aside a designated
time, for the express purpose of public prayers, it is certainly
organizing public prayers.  Mr. Pitts was asked what Jesus said in
support of governmentally organized public prayers.  What does he have
to say in reply to this question?

In a 300 line article, Mr. Pitts says *NOTHING* *WHATEVER* in reply to
the question.  Nada.  Rien.  Nitchevo.  Zip.  Instead, he recites a
string of Biblical quotations, all of which show either that someone
prayed, or that someone approved of praying.  Now no one disputes that
many people prayed in the Bible, and no one disputes that the Bible
approves of prayer.  The question had to do with Jesus' support for
governmentally organized public prayers.  Mr. Pitts has used up a lot
of bandwidth answering a question no one asked, and he has totally
ignored the question which was asked.

He writes:

>Here are my scriptures - the are not all about public pray, but they
>are about prayer - many instances of it.  

But the question is about public prayer, so why waste bandwidth by
including passages that aren't about public prayer?  And the question
is about *governmentally organized* public prayer, so why waste
bandwidth by including passages that aren't about governmentally
organized prayer?  And the question is about Jesus' support of
governmentally organized public prayer, so why waste bandwidth by
including passages about how Saul prayed, and Daniel prayed, and Ezra
prayed, and Elijah prayed?

If you look through the list of Mr. Pitts' Bible quotations and
eliminate those that don't talk about public prayer, and those that
don't talk about government-organized prayer, and those that don't
talk about what Jesus himself thought, how many remain?  None.  Not a
single one.  Every passage Mr. Pitts cited is irrelevant to the
argument.

Mr. Pitts tells us:

>There 300-350 references to prayer in the Bible (about 150 in the
>NT) - these are recorded for us to see that people prayed....

And that's what he has to say for himself.  To the question, "what
does Jesus say in support of governmentally organized public prayer,"
he replies that the word "prayer" is mentioned 350 times in the
Bible.  Too bad the Bible doesn't mention the word "logic" more
often.

Apparently Mr. Pitts has one of those Bible search programs on his PC,
which can look for words like "prayer" and dump the passages
containing it into a file.  Such programs are an invention of the
Devil.  They discourage people from actually *reading* the Bible;
instead, the software will look for keywords and regurgitate verses to
"support" any position you might care to take.  If Mr. Pitts would
stop playing with his PC Bible program and actually look at what it
says, rather than at what words it contains, he might learn something.
And he'd learn even more if he took a course in elementary logic.


Keith
Organization: Freshman, Art, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA