From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: rec.guns,talk.politics.guns
Subject: 25 states .... (My .sig)
Date: 2 Sep 92 01:27:12 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.guns
Organization: gte


[Mr. Moderator, I have been receiving e-mail requests for this info
at the rate of 2 - 3 per day for the last 2 weeks.  I would *greatly*
appreciate your letting this one go through with the follow-ups directed
to t.p.g (I hope!).]
	[MODERATOR: With that kind of demand, I'm happy to reproduce it
	 here.  Indeed, though, followups to t.p.g....]


Sources: _USA_TODAY_, TUESDAY, JANUARY 7, 1992, PAGE 5A
        and the attached CCW survey
                                          
============================================================
                Open       
                Carry         1990          1991
               Status*      murders      murders
                                              
AL Alabama        R           467          410 
AR Arkansas       R           241          240 
CA California     R          3553         3710 
CT Connecticut    R           166          170 
DC D. C.          R           483          489 
FL Florida        R          1379         1300 
HI Hawaii         R            44           44 
IA Iowa           R            54           62 
IL Illinois       R          1182         1270 
MA Massachusetts  R           243          200 
MD Maryland       R           552          540 
MI Michigan       R           971         1020 
MN Minnesota      R           117          100 
MO Missouri       R           449          550 
NC N. Carolina    R           711          730 
ND N. Dakota      R             5           11 
NJ New Jersey     R           432          350 
NY New York       R          2605         2550 
OH Ohio           R           663          760 
PA Pennsylvania   R           801          740 
RI Rhode Island   R            48           38 
SC S. Carolina    R           390          350 
TN Tennessee      R           511          470 
TX Texas          R          2389         2660 
UT Utah           R            52           43 
WA Washington     R           238          220 

AK Alaska         O            41           56 
AZ Arizona        O           284          290 
CO Colorado       O           138          155 
DE Delaware       O            33           32 
GA Georgia        O           767          720 
ID Idaho          O            27           21 
IN Indiana        O           344          380 
KS Kansas         O            98          150 
KY Kentucky       O           264          260 
LA Louisiana      O           724          760 
ME Maine          O            30           23 
MS Mississippi    O           313          370 
MT Montana        O            39           29 
NE Nebraska       O            43           43 
NH New Hampshire  O            21           32 
NM New Mexico     O           139          160 
NV Nevada         O           116          135 
OK Oklahoma       O           253          220 
OR Oregon         O           108          120 
SD S. Dakota      O            14            9 
VA Virginia       O           545          550 
VT Vermont        O            14           24 
WI Wisconsin      O           225          240 
WV W. Virginia    O           102          135 
WY Wyoming        O            22           20 

Total number of Murders in:                      
  25 Restrictive States + DC 18746        19027
  25 Open Carry States        4704         4934
  50 States & DC             23450        23961

"Open Carry States" are those States which permit all citizens 
to both purchase a gun and carry it unconcealed and loaded  
without a license.

"Restricted Carry States" are those states which restrict or 
prohibit either the purchase or unconcealed carry of guns.

************************************************************************
#From hrc!mcdphx!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!dtix!mimsy!az.intel.com Wed Jan 29 10:26:07 1992
#Path: gtephx!hrc!mcdphx!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!dtix!mimsy!az.intel.com
#From: mkielsky@az.intel.com (Michael Kielsky x554-2677 MS:CH2-73)
#Newsgroups: rec.guns
#Subject: CCW Survey 'Update'
#Message-ID: <47727@mimsy.umd.edu>
#Date: 29 Jan 92 17:26:07 GMT
#Sender: magnum@mimsy.umd.edu
#Lines: 354
#Approved: gun-control@cs.umd.edu
#
#There have been some requests for a copy of the CCW Survey.  Here it is again,
#slightly revised/updated from any previous 'published' edition, yet still far
#from complete.  Your help is still needed in filling the gaps of information
#and proofing the data presented.
#
#Thanks,
#
#-- Michael Kielsky  (Software Mercenary, FFL, PC, DR)
#Internet: mkielsky@az.intel.com      AT&Tnet: (602) 554-2677=Work
#      or  mkielsky@fa.intel.com           or  (602) 839-0818=Home
#      or  agmgk@acvax.inre.asu.edu   PAGEnet: (602) 450-1413=Pager
#  BITnet: agmgk@asuacvax.bitnet      SCUDnet: 33:29:52 N 111:59:41 W
#----------------------------------------------------------------------
#"Guns are 47 times as likely to kill an acquaintance" is as useless as
#"Brakes are 47 times as likely to be used before a vehicle collision".
#                                - me
#
#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
# WARNING:  None of the information herein contained may be used as the basis
# for, or in conjunction with, taking any actions, or forming any opinions on
# questions of the law.  No claims are made as to the accuracy, currency, and
# applicability of this document, in regards to the law or issues adjudicated
# by the various courts.  Before taking any action which could possibly be in
# contravention to the law, always consult your qualified legal professional.
#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
# 1. Does the state issue possession or purchase permits for handguns? (O/P/U)
# 2. Does the state issue open carry permits for handguns? (O/P/U)
# 3. Does the state issue concealed carry permits for handguns? (O/P/U)
# 4. Is the permit discretionary in actual practice? (Y/N)
# 5. Is the permit valid statewide? (Y/N/D)
# 6. What is the initial duration of a permit? (in months)
# 7. What is the renewal duration of a permit? (in months)
# 8. What is the application cost for the permit? (in $$)
# 9. What is the renewal cost for the permit? (in $$)
#10. Does the permit require fingerprints? (Y/N/D)
#11. Does the permit require drug testing? (Y/N/D)
#12. Does the permit require background checks? (Y/N/D)
#13. Does the permit require proof of training/knowledge? (Y/N/D)
#14. Does the permit require citing a reason listed in statute? (Y/N/D)
#15. Is a permit available to nonresidents? (Y/N/D)
#16. Does a nonresident permit require possession of home state permit? (Y/N)
#17. What is the initial duration of a nonresident permit? (in months)
#18. What is the renewal duration of a nonresident permit? (in months)
#19. What is the application cost for the nonresident permit? (in $$)
#20. What is the renewal cost for the nonresident permit? (in $$)
#21. Does the state honor other states' permits? (Y/N)
#22. Relative Score on the Gun Rights Index (GRI); values 0-99, rounded.
#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
#     D = Discretionary, upon the discretion/need of the issuing authority
#     I = Irrelevant, this question does not apply or is irrelevant
#     O = Open, this action/activity is open to all lawful individuals
#     P = Permit, a permit is required for this action/activity
#     N = No
#     U = Unlawful, this practice is unlawful to virtually all individuals
#     Y = Yes
#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
#GRI Scoring: (Answers without listed values do not affect the score)
# 1: O = 33, P = 22
# 2: O = 33, P = 22
# 3: O = 33, P = 22
# 4: Y = -11
# 5: N = -5, D = -3
# 6: x/24, max of 5
# 7: x/24, max of 5
# 8: -x/25, max of -5
# 9: -x/25, max of -5
#10: Y = -2, D = -1
#11: Y = -2, D = -1
#12: Y = -2, D = -1
#13: Y = -2, D = -1
#14: Y = -2, D = -1
#15: N = -5, D = -3
#16: Y = -1
#17: x/24, max of 5
#18: x/24, max of 5
#19: -x/25, max of -5
#20: -x/25, max of -5
#21: N = -5
#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
#
#    1. 2. 3. 4. 5.  6.  7.  8.  9.10.11.12.13.14.15.16. 17. 18. 19. 20.21. 22.
#--+--.--.--.--.--.---.---.---.---.--.--.--.--.--.--.--.---.---.---.---.--.---.
#AK| O. O. U. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. 66.
#AL| O. P. P.  . Y. 12. 12. 15.   . N. N.  . N. N.  .  .   .   .   .   . Y. 77.
#AR| O. U. U. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. 33.
#AS|  .  .  .  .  .   .   .   .   .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .   .   .   .   .  .   .
#AZ| O. O. U. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. 66.
#CA| P. P. P. Y. Y. 12. 12. 28.   . N. N. Y. N. N. N. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. N. 42.
#CO| O. O. P. Y. Y.   .   .   .   .  .  . Y.  .  . N.  .   .   .   .   . N. 65.
#CT| O. P. P. N. Y. 60. 60.25+.   . Y. N. Y. Y. N. Y.  .   .   .   .   . N. 69.
#DC| U. U. U. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I.  0.
#DE| O. O. P.  .  .   .   .   .   .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .   .   .   .   . N. 83.
#FL| O. P. P. N. Y. 36. 36.160.135. Y. N. Y. Y. N. N. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. N. 54.
#FM|  .  .  .  .  .   .   .   .   .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .   .   .   .   .  .   .
#GA| O. O. P. N. Y. 60. 60. 32. 32. Y. N. Y. N. N. N. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. N. 76.
#GU|  .  .  .  .  .   .   .   .   .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .   .   .   .   .  .   .
#HI| P. P. P. Y.  .   .   .   .   .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .   .   .   .   . N. 50.
#IA| P. P. P. Y. Y. 12. 12.  5.  2. N. N. Y. Y. Y. Y. N. 12. 12.  5.  2. N. 46.
#ID| O. O. P. N. Y. 48. 48.20+. 12. D. N. D. D. N. N. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. N. 77.
#IL| P. U. U. Y. N. 60. 60.  5.  5. N. N. N. N. N. Y. N. 12. 12.  I.  I. N.  7.
#IN| O. O. P. N. Y. 48. 48. 25. 25. Y. N. Y. N. Y.?N. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. Y. 79.
#KS| O. O. U. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. 66.
#KY| O. O. U. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. 66.
#LA| O. O. P.  .  .   .   .   .   .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .   .   .   .   .?Y. 88.
#MA| P. P. P. Y. Y.<60. 60. 10. 10. Y. N. Y. D. Y. Y. N. 12. 12. 10. 10. N. 54.
#MD| O. P. P. Y. Y.<36. 36. 25. 25. Y. N. Y. N. Y.  .  .   .   .   .   . N. 56.
#ME| O. O. P. N. Y. 36. 36. 20. 10. D. N. Y. Y. N. Y. N. 36. 36. 80. 40. N. 84.
#MH|  .  .  .  .  .   .   .   .   .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .   .   .   .   .  .   .
#MI| P. P. P.  .  .   .   .   .   .  .  .  .  .  . Y.  .   .   .   .   . Y. 66.
#MN| P. P. P.  .  .   .   .   .   .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .   .   .   .   . N. 61.
#MO| P. O. P.  . N.   .   .   .   .  .  . Y.  . Y. N.  .   .   .   .   . N. 58.
#MP|  .  .  .  .  .   .   .   .   .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .   .   .   .   .  .   .
#MS| O. O. P. N. Y. 36. 36.100.100. Y. N. Y. N. N. N. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. N. 69.
#MT| O. O. P.  .  .   .   .   .   .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .   .   .   .   . N. 83.
#NC| P. O. U. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. I. D. D. D. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. 52.
#ND| O. U. P.  .  .   .   .   .   .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .   .   .   .   . N. 50.
#NE| O. O. U. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. 66.
#NH| O. O. P. N. Y. 24. 24.  4.  4. D. N. Y. N. Y. Y. N. 24. 24. 10. 10. N. 81.
#NJ| P. P. P. Y.  .   .   .   .   . Y.  . Y. D.  . Y.  .   .   .   .   . N. 45.
#NM| O. O. U. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. 66.
#NV| O. O. P.  .  .   .   .   .   .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .   .   .   .   . N. 83.
#NY| P. P. P. Y. N.Lif.  I. 45.  I. Y. N. Y. Y. Y. Y. Y.   .   .   .   . N. 43.
#OH| P. O. U. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. 55.
#OK| O. O. U. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. 66.
#OR| O. O. P. N. Y. 24. 24. 50. 25. Y. N. Y. Y. N. N. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. N. 71.
#PA| O. P. P. N. Y. 60. 60. 13.   . N. N. Y. N. Y. Y. Y. 60. 60. 13.   . N. 80.
#PR| P. P. P. Y. N. 36. 36.350.250. Y. N. Y. N. Y. N. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. N. 22.
#PW|  .  .  .  .  .   .   .   .   .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .   .   .   .   .  .   .
#RI| O. P. P.  .  .   .   .   .   .  .  .  .  .  . Y.  .   .   .   .   . N. 72.
#SC| O. P. P.  .  .   .   .   .   .  .  .  .  .  . N.  .   .   .   .   . N. 67.
#SD| O. O. P.  .  .   .   .   .   .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .   .   .   .   . N. 83.
#TN| O. U. U.  .  .   .   .   .   .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .   .   .   .   . N. 28.
#TX| O. U. U. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. 33.
#UT| O. U. P. N. Y.  ?.  ?. 35.  5. Y. N. Y. Y. N. Y. N.  ?.  ?. 35.  5. N. 44.
#VA| O. O. P. Y. Y. 24. 24. 10. 10. Y. N. Y. N. Y. ?. ?.  ?.  ?.  ?.  ?. ?. 62.
#VI|  .  .  .  .  .   .   .   .   .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .   .   .   .   . Y.   .
#VT| O. O. O. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. 99.
#WA| O. P. P. N. Y. 48. 48. 23. 15. Y. N. D. N. D. Y. N. 48. 48. 23. 15. N. 78.
#WI| O. O. U. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. I. 66.
#WV| O. O. P. N. Y. 60. 60. 70. 50. N. N. Y. Y. Y. N. I.  I.  I.  I.  I. N. 72.
#WY| O. O. P. Y. N. 36. 36.  0.  0. N. N. Y. N. Y. Y. N. 36. 36.  0.  0. N. 69.
#--+--.--.--.--.--.---.---.---.---.--.--.--.--.--.--.--.---.---.---.---.--.---.
#    1. 2. 3. 4. 5.  6.  7.  8.  9.10.11.12.13.14.15.16. 17. 18. 19. 20.21. 22.
#
#Notes:
#       all numeric values are approximations, rounded where necessary
#AL- 2:License for carry in a vehicle, open or concealed.
#AR- 2:Carry "with a purpose to employ it as a weapon against a person" illegal.
#AR- 3:Carry "with a purpose to employ it as a weapon against a person" illegal.
#AZ- 3:Violation is class 1 misdemeanor, 6 mo. maximum jail sentence.
#CA- 1:Except for handguns defined as "assault weapons".
#CA- 2:Open carry is legal in unincorporated areas except where prohibited.
#CA- 4:There is a wide variety of issuance policies throughout the state.
#CA- 8:Application cost may vary.
#CA-13:State does not require training, but many counties/cities do.
#CO- 2:Except in some cities.
#CO- 3:Get a permit from a town, then the state.
#CT- 3:One must obtain a local permit before issuance of State permit.
#CT- 4:Reasons for denial are statutory, and there is a binding appeal process.
#CT- 8:Local permit ~$25, state permit $25.
#CT-10:Required for issuance of local permit, but not for State permit.
#CT-12:Required for issuance of local permit, but not for State permit.
#CT-13:Required for issuance of local permit, but not for State permit.
#DC- 1:Handgun moratorium since September 24, 1976.
#FL-15:Non-resident licenses only to "Consular Officers of Foreign Governments".
#GA- 2:No permit required to hunt or transport.
#GA- 3:Open carry for protection requires same permit as for concealed carry.
#IA-10:Fingerprints required for non-resident/professional permits.
#IA-15:Only professional permit (security guard, FFL) available to non-residents.
#ID- 8:Fees variable: $20 + reasonable costs; Idaho County quoted $30.
#ID-15:No non-resident applications accepted after 7/1/91.
#ID-17:Old non-resident permits good until expiration.
#IL- 3:Exceptions for people of influence and power.
#IL- 5:Chicago requires registration.  Certain suburbs have banned handguns.
#IL-15:Non-residend hunting license serves as gun owner identification card.
#IN- 3:Available to residents or those who work in the state.
#IN- 8:Local $10, state $15 for CCW, and $5 open only.
#IN- 9:Local $10, state $15 for CCW, and $5 open only.
#IN-14:Answer: "For protection of myself, my family, and the State of Indiana."
#IN-21:Will honor out-of-state CCW for travellers.
#KS- 1:Purchase permit may be required in certain cities or counties.
#MA- 2:Same as CCW.  Open carry strongly discouraged, much hassled.
#MA- 3:Hard to get in Cambridge/Boston.
#MA- 4:40 day appl. process.  Inaction/rejection appeals go to district court.
#MA- 5:Illegal: carry on school grounds, unattended handgun in motor vehicle.
#MA- 6:Expires on applicant's birthday, four years after issuance.
#MA-14:Must be suitable person and have specific need for "all lawful purposes".
#MA-15:Two types available, with differing requirements.
#MA-17:24 mo. license available for cash businesses, P.I.s, or military.
#MA-18:24 mo. license available for cash businesses, P.I.s, or military.
#MA-19:$20 for the 24 mo. license.
#MA-20:$20 for the 24 mo. license.
#MD- 6:Expires on last day of birth month, two years after issuance.
#ME- 2:Open carry is legal, expect looks from some people.
#ME- 3:Handguns must be unloaded in the car if you do not possess a CCW.
#ME- 4:Resident permit must be issued or denied with cause within 30 days.
#ME-12:Non-resident must supply official driving record, criminal records check.
#ME-15:Non-resident permit must be issued or denied with cause within 60 days.
#MI- 2:Must posses license for carry in a vehicle, open or concealed.
#MO- 1:Permit with background check required for each handgun purchase.
#MO- 2:Open carry walking around; no carry in vehicles.
#MO- 3:For cash/high-value businesses, only on-site & on-duty.
#NC- 1:Purchase permit $5 in one county, others may differ.
#NC- 3:Exceptions in extreme need (by court order), as determined by the state.
#NC-12:In reference to purchase permit, only.
#NC-13:In reference to purchase permit, only.
#NC-14:In reference to purchase permit, only.
#ND- 2:Loaded carry prohibited.
#NH-14:Accepted reasons are "protection" and "target shooting".
#NH-16:Want copy of CCW from home state if exists, or clean record letter.
#NM- 2:It's legal to keep a loaded gun in your car.
#NM- 3:Illegal concealed carry is often ignored; can carry 'unloaded'.
#NV- 3:CCW may be granted by county sheriff on written application.
#NY- 3:NYC, people of influence, or 'need'.  Rest of state varies by county.
#NY- 5:State permit no good in NYC, but NYC permit also valid in rest of state.
#NY- 6:State permit issued for life; NYC permit issued for 2 years.
#NY- 8:Fees vary by county.
#OH- 1:Purchase permit may be required in certain cities or counties.
#OR- 4:Resident permit must be issued or denied with cause within 45 days.
#OR-15:Wording of law now requires residence in county of application.
#OR-21:'Equivalent' permits recognized.  No out-of-state permits meet this test.
#PA- 2:License for carry in a vehicle, open or concealed.
#PA- 3:Discretionary in Philadelphia.
#PA- 4:45 day application process.
#PA- 5:Illegal: carry on school grounds
#PA-14:Personal protection reason accepted without prejudice.
#PA-15:Must already possess CCW in home state.
#RI-15:Usually denied on first try; after complaint, approved on second try.
#TN- 2:Except licensed private investigators, handgun hunters, cops.
#TN- 3:Except licensed private investigators, handgun hunters, cops.
#TX- 2:Except for "travellers" (i.e. crossing multiple county lines).
#TX- 3:Except for "travellers" (i.e. crossing multiple county lines).
#UT- 1:Possession of weapon authorized, permit or license not required.
#UT- 2:Loaded firearm carry in vehicle or on public street is unlawful.
#UT- 4:Permit must be issued or denied with cause within 60 days.
#UT-12:Character references, photographs, employment & residential history.
#UT-13:Specifies "evidence of weapons familiarity".
#UT-15:Nonresidents traveling may possess unloaded, cased firearm in vehicle.
#VA- 1:Must pass 'instant' computer background check for purchase.
#VA-14:"For lawful defense and security" is sufficient, by statute.
#VT- 2:Carry "with the intent or purpose of injuring another" prohibited.
#VT- 3:Carry "with the intent or purpose of injuring another" prohibited.
#VT- 3:In Montpelier, Rutland & St. Albans: town ordinances ban loaded carry.
#WA- 1:Purchase application on buying; buyers with no CCW must wait five days.
#WA- 2:License required for loaded carry in a vehicle, open or concealed.
#WA- 3:Local ordinances may not contradict or be more restrictive than state law.
#WA- 4:Must be issued/denied with cause within 30 days.  Routinely exceeded.
#WA-14:Contrary to law, some agencies require that reasons be provided.
#WA-15:Non-resident permit must be issued or denied with cause within 60 days.
#WV- 8:Application fee of $20 and license fee of $50.
#WY- 3:Violation is misdemeanor, $750 maximum fine, 6 mo. maximum jail sentence.
#WY- 4:Sheriff may issue to travelers, merchant police, private detectives, etc.
#WY- 5:Issued at personal discretion of Sheriff, may be valid only their county.
#------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#AK-Alaska                 AL-Alabama                AR-Arkansas
#AS-American Samoa         AZ-Arizona                CA-California
#CO-Colorado               CT-Connecticut            DC-District of Columbia
#DE-Delaware               FL-Florida                FM-Federated Micronesia
#GA-Georgia                GU-Guam                   HI-Hawaii
#IA-Iowa                   ID-Idaho                  IL-Illinois
#IN-Indiana                KS-Kansas                 KY-Kentucky
#LA-Lousiana               MA-Massachussetts         MD-Maryland
#ME-Maine                  MH-Marshall Islands       MI-Michigan
#MN-Minnesota              MO-Missouri               MP-Mariana Islands
#MS-Mississippi            MT-Montana                NC-North Carolina
#ND-North Dakota           NE-Nebraska               NH-New Hampshire
#NJ-New Jersey             NM-New Mexico             NV-Nevada
#NY-New York               OH-Ohio                   OK-Oklahoma
#OR-Oregon                 PA-Pennsylvania           PR-Puerto Rico
#PW-Palau Islands          RI-Rhode Island           SC-South Carolina
#SD-South Dakota           TN-Tennessee              TX-Texas
#UT-Utah                   VA-Virginia               VI-Virgin Islands
#VT-Vermont                WA-Washington             WI-Wisconsin
#WV-West Virginia          WY-Wyoming
#------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#
#Contact for more information:
#.			.			.
#						State of Arizona
#			 (602)	542-4266	Attorney General Grant Woods
#						Department of Law
#						1275 W.	Washington St.
#						Phoenix, AZ 85007
#.			.			.
#						State of Florida
#						Dept. of State
#			 (904)	488-0039	Division of Licensing
#						P.O. Box 6687
#						Tallahassee, FL 32304-6687
#.			.			.
#						Indiana State Police
#			 (317)	232-8264	Firearms Licensing/CCW
#.			.			.
#						State of Iowa
#			 (515)	281-5261	Attorney General
#						Bonnie J. Campbell
#						Wallace State Office Bldg.
#						Des Moines, IA 50319
# Paul H. Wieck II, Commissioner			Department of Public Safety
#			 (515)	281-3211	Administrative Services Division
# Judy Cross		 (515)	281-5149	Weapons Permit Section
#   Administrative Assistant			Wallace State Office Bldg.
#						Des Moines, IA 50319-0040
#.			.			.
# Commissioner John R. Atwood			Maine State Police
# Col. Andrew E. Demers, Chief			Licensing Divison
# Lt. Peter A. McCarthy	 (207)	582-8765	Gardiner Annex
#						State House Station, #35
#						Augusta, ME 04333
#.			.			.
#						State of Massachussetts
#						Department of Public Safety
# "firearms records"	 (617)	566-4500	Firearms & CCW Licensing
#						1010 Commonwealth Ave.
#						Boston, MA 02135
#.			.			.
#						State of New Hampshire
#						Department of Safety
#						Division of State Police
#						10 Hazen Drive
#						Concord, NH 03305
#.			.			.
#						Allegheny County
#						Sheriff's Office
# Deputy	Juran		 (412)	355-4700	Room 111, Courthouse
#  firearms affairs				Pittsburgh, PA 15219
#			 (717)	265-1701	Bradford County Sheriff's Office
#			 (717)	697-0371	Cumberland County Sheriff's Off.
#			 (717)	261-3805	Franklin County Sheriff's Office
#			 (717)	327-2280	Lycoming County Sheriff's Office
#			 (717)	988-4155	Northumberland C. Sheriff's Off.
#			 (717)	771-9601	York County Sheriff's Office
#.			.			.
#						State of Utah
#			 (801)	538-1015	Attorney General
#						R. Paul Van Dam
# Joseph E. Tesch				236 State Capitol
#  Chief Deputy Attorney General			Salt Lake City, UT 84114
# Ronald L. Probert
#  Chief, Investigations
#						Department of Public Safety
#						Regulatory Licensing
#						4501 S. 2700 West
#						Salt Lake City, UT 84119
#.			.			.
#						State of West Virginia
#			 (304)	348-2021	Office of the Attorney General
#						Charleston, WV 25305
#.			.			.
#						Albany County
# Deputy Debre		 (307)	721-2526	Sheriff Gary Puls
#						525 Grant
#						Laramie, WY 82070
#.			.			.
#

************************************************************************
#From a private e-mail 
!> = the guy who responded to my .sig.
! = my response to him.

!> Not a flame, just an observation on this statistic, that 80% of the
!> murders occur where 80% of the people live.  Pretty hard to go on a
!> killin' spree in Montana when you gotta drive 200 miles between
!> neighbors.  And I notice you don't say how many of those murders in
!> your statistic are HANDGUN related.
!
!Actually, it's 75% of the population that gets 80% of the murders: but
!that is about right.
!
!> Anyway it *isn't* gun control.  Australia has virtually no gun control
!> yet they don't have the problems we do with astronomical murder rates.
!> Again, I'll venture it's population density.  All of western Australia
!> contains about 1mill. people, that's only TWICE as many as were packed
!> into New York City's Central Park for the Simon and Garfunkel concert
!> about 10 years ago.
!
!Some of it is gun control, IMHO:
!Those state with the 80% of the murders have 75% of the population.
!They have more murders per capita for a whole host of reasons, a small
!part of which is gun laws, but the biggest part is the failure of the
!common citizen to stand up and help is fellow man (with or without 
!a gun).
!
!D.C. is the murder capitol of the US (and possibly the world): it is
!also the gun control capitol of the US.
!
!Phoenix, Arizona is the nation's tenth largest city (pop almost 2
!million), murder rate 15.4 (if all the murders committed in the state
!were committed in Phoenix)  for 1990 (anyone can buy a gun, load it,
!strap it on, and walk down the street).  
!
!DC has a population of 660,000 (1990), an almost total ban on guns,
!and a murder rate of 77.7.
!
!Both cities are metropolitan, both cities have a large number of poor
!(Phoenix is a "homeless haven" because of its warm winters -- some
!years we don't even get a freeze! 8^)  The chief differences are 
!that Phoenix's minorities are more hispanic than black and Phoenicians
!are still free people with the right to protect themselves.  (Laws
!concerning justification in this state protect the person who truly
!defends himself both from criminal and civil liability -- and most
!justified shootings don't even result in an arrest or confiscation
!of the gun -- even some unjustified shootings result in nothing more
!than an explanation of the law and a stern "Be careful" from the 
!police!)
!
!We even took it a step further a year or two ago: under a recently
!enacted law, if a person is killed during a commission of a felony
!as a result of the felony being committed, all suspects are charged
!with murder.  I recently read where a Tucson teenager was charged 
!with murder when her brother was shot and killed by a gun-shop owner
!whom the suspect, her brother and another teenager were trying to
!rob.  Talk about poetic justice!  
!
!My basic position is this:
!
!    Guns don't affect crime, people affect crime.  When 
!    ordinary citizens stand ready, willing, and able to act
!    against criminals during the commission of a crime, 
!    crime rates decline.  When ordinary citizens hide away 
!    and hope that "Big Brother" will take care of it, crime 
!    increases.
!
!    When government bans or restricts guns, they make it 
!    difficult or impossible for ordinary citizens to get 
!    and/or use guns.  At the same time, criminals - those
!    who, by definition, break the law - will still get guns,
!    much as they still get drugs in spite of a total ban 
!    (and drugs are consumed, whereas one gun and 1,000 rounds
!    of ammunition can last ten years).  An armed citizen    
!    stands a reasonable chance of surviving an encounter
!    with a criminal -- a disarmed citizen stands a good 
!    chance of being maimed or killed: this is where guns
!    come into the scene, in places where citizens can 
!    carry, more of them are willing to take a proactive
!    stance against crime.
!
!    How can one possibly hope to accomplish any good by 
!    lowering the ratio of armed ordinary citizens to armed
!    criminals?
!
!Want to fight crime?  Start with eliminating plea bargaining and
!parole for felons who have committed a violent act against a person
!during the commission of a felony (I'd consider waving a knife in
!someone's face a violent attack).  Given 25 years for a violent
!assault upon a person, the average criminal would only get one
!repeat offense (just doing that would more than half our crime 
!rate!).
!
!Next, make prisons a miserable place to be instead of a place that
!is better than life on the streets!  Eliminate all recreation 
!facilities (having convicts come out of prison looking like Arnold
!Schwarzenegger does us all a lot of good, now doesn't it?);  Reduce
!the quality of food to edible, but bland (ie: grits for brkfst, 
!steamed vegies for lunch, and beans for dinner);  Eliminate TV 
!(Christ, I don't even get cable TV yet! -- there's not enough left
!over after taking care of the bills and the kids); Eliminate
!conjugal visits, cigarrettes, "Christmas packages", etc;  Make them
!sweat like pigs all summer and shivver all winter.  In short, make
!prison an absolute *hell*hole*!
!
!Then, legalize drugs.  Junkies who are high are virtually harmless
!(similar to wino laying in the street drunk); but a junkie needing
!a fix will do anything to anybody to get that fix.  Aside from that,
!legalizing drugs will stop the cash flow which has allowed the gangs
!to arm themselves, will de-glorify drugs (they're so cheap that anyone
!can get 'em), and will take away the incentives ($$$) that pushers have
!for getting people started on drugs.
!
!Also, we ought to eliminate all other "victimless" crimes to allow law 
!enforcement to concentrate on real crimes.
!
!Finally, people need to take a long hard look at the LA riots an realize
!that when it gets right down to it, the world is a cold, harsh place and
!either you protect yourself, friends, neighbors, and fellow citizens or
!you submit to the whims of criminals.  (I really don't think that my
!carrying a gun is going to be of much good to me -- it is far more
!likely that my fellow citizen's gun will brought to my defense or
!vice versa and *that* is what made America the great country that
!it once was.)
!

-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda