HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: My Bad Mouth
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 21:24:53 GMT


In article <1992Oct16.151301.16209@microsoft.com>
frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J.  Maloney) writes:

>Is the lovely George Reilly (georgere@microsoft.com) regular
>enough to qualify for your list? I cannot believe that he
>has ever been even lightly singed here, although I can
>imagine he's been toasted from time to time.

Are you kidding?  He works for Microsoft!  Anyone who'd
do something as low as that *must* be hateful.  Windows
NT, I mean, George Bush thought *that* up.  Gad!

>And how about sweet Rod Williams (rjwill6@pacbell.com), a
>man whose tastes in coffee are as cultivated as his wit?
>Has Rod ever been roasted here?

Oh him.  He's just another one of those effete impudent
snobs, and he's a commie pinko fag, besides.  Worse yet,
he's part of the military-industrial complex.

>There must be more, but those two are amongst my personal
>favorites in the mostly motly, but fascinating, crew of The
>Raging Queen.

Louie?  I don't Louie has ever been even lightly baked, let
alone singed, but that's because we neve focussed the
Sarverscope (high-tech Raging Queen Crisper) on his
tailbone.

>Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney

Listen, dumbo, why do you have too goddamn many names,
anyway?

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Tired and Impatient (was Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 18:14:31 GMT


In article <ldr779INNguq@spim.mti.sgi.com>
dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:

>In article <1992Oct15.032110.29136@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>,
ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) writes:

>>How wonderful for you.  for your next test, you are to
>>dine with Jerry Falwell, smile and laugh and have a good
>>time.  When you're done you'll have earned your halo.

>Well, I got Phil Ngai to go from enemy to friend...

I think that's not just nothing at all.

>I am working on keeping Ronzone out of motss (which only
>someone he respects can do...) Next target Clayton.

A rather precarious project, but if it works, then
nothing succeeds like success.

>Sometimes it takes a radical approach to change people.
>Other times, you just have to talk to them.

One should never look the gift horse in the mouth, I
suppose.  These alternatives are far from only two that
operate in the context.  Sometimes a radical approach and
just talking to people accomplishes exactly no change, apart
from maybe in you or whoever undertakes it.  Sometimes you
have to pay them off.  And so forth.

>If you try, perhaps you will find that this works....

How ironic that you would ever refer to me as pompous, Jeff.
Who would you identify, in your self-congratulatory
excesses, as *not* having tried?

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: randyc@autodesk.com (Randy Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Date: 9 Oct 92 23:30:59 GMT
Organization: Autodesk, Inc., Sausalito, CA


In article <1992Oct7.000810.3872@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu
(Nelson Minar) writes:
>In article <1at35iINNngi@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (the
>imminently e-fuckable adolphson) writes, about the duel between
>Madonna and Marlene Dietrich:
>
>>Dietrich happens not only to be very dead today,
>>but just as potent an icon as she ever was in life.

>Maybe Dietrich is the icon of your time, [...]

	Though I hesitate to pounce into a thread that
	is and I'm sure will be so ably handled by Arne,
	I can't resist pointing out that you've overestimated
	his age by a trifle.

	Moreover, I'm convinced that this is most certainly
	*not* an age thing.  Our vaunted "gay sensibility"
	(hate that phrase, but "camp" doesn't quite fit
	Marlene) is a timeless thing, just as it can be
	cross-cultural (as we've discussed ad nauseam).

	The most knowledgeable black-and-white movie queen
	I know, far surpassing myself and rivalled only by
	two other acquaintances of mine (Arne being one)
	was, when I met him, 19 years old ...
	and Japanese.

	Cheers,
	-R


--
Ignorant people think it's the *noise* which fighting cats make
that is so aggravating, but it ain't so; it's the sickening
grammar they use.  -- Mark Twain
Randy Clark			{}!autodesk.com!randyc
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Madonna offers haven to Diana
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 21:15:52 GMT

Yet another delightfully transformed subject!

In article <1992Oct7.145129.23359@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> Just now it's absolutely perfect here.  Clear, high-pressure
> days, fall colors starting to peak, light breeze, 50
> degrees, highs about 60.  This is my favorite season, *by
> far*

Actually, mine too, despite my apparent complaints. It's my own fault
if I choose to continue to live in an unheated, uninsulated house for
4 weeks after the autumnal equinox. (On the other hand, it's *not* my
fault that this has been an unusually cool fall, so far.) October is
the Northeast's most beautiful month, and the one in which
crystal-clear days with moderate temperatures can most reliably be
counted on (which isn't very).

> and here I am on my back unable to really get out and
> enjoy it.

This is truly unfortunate, and you have my heartfelt sympathy. Back
trouble is hell. (It's also our undeserved punishment for the fact
that our brains and hands evolved to the point where we spend a lot of
time sitting on our butts, and our spines haven't caught up.)

> The winters here have been much warmer than usual
> for the past 3 years; but the summer was uncommonly cool,

The above applies to the Northeast as well (if you disregard December
of '89, I think it was).

[some Wisconsin winter]
> more than a week with the *highs* below zero, the
> nights in the -20 to -25 range.

Yes, well, please keep that stuff out in the Midwest where it belongs.
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Even more anti-queer violence in Oregon
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:36:21 GMT
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA

In article <1992Oct7.080513.950@reed.edu>, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
> Well, last night someone broke into the offices of the Portland
> Metropolitan Community Church (MCC, a lesbigay-oriented church). They
> stole a list of 300 members and vandalized the office. The intent of
> this action is quite clear - terrorism.
> 
> In the same night, two other churches were attacked. An exhibit about
> Anne Frank is about to open - the church that is sponsoring it ("First
> Methodist"?) was vandalized. I'm also told that a Catholic church was
> vandalized, and that this attack was related to the local Catholics
> coming out against Measure 9. (I haven't verified this one myself.)

  In a perverse way, isn't this a Good Thing? Desecration of churches
is a pretty serious act of violence in most peoples minds. That this
is happening *before* the election is just so much for fuel for the
fire that we *aren't* kidding. Now it's not just the fags and fairies
and perverts, but anybody who *dares* take any position even remotely
against them. If it's like this before the election, what will it
be like after... 
  If people had any doubts about the authoritarian and hatred driven
nature of the OCA, hopefully this gives them a good slap of reality.
  Are they playing this up in the media? Is it getting lots of 
coverage? (knowing that things like this usually do down here...)

> There was some television coverage of the jury's decision, including
> one picture of Scott Lively with the word "Guilty" underneath. The
> timing is exquisite, but I'm afraid that the majority of people in
> Oregon just won't get it.

  Yea. A better picture would be showing the "Guilty" pictures of
Lively juxtaposed with the church desecration. Perhaps a bit libelous
but only a bit. (not that the OCA is above reproach wrt libel)
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
Subject: Re: Fear of Success (was Re: Oregon poll)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:58:19 GMT

Nelson Minar (nelson@reed.edu) wrote:
> 
> I won't lighten up as long as my kindred are being firebombed for
> being queer. I won't "grok wellness" as long as people politely
> tolerate shit like the OCA.
>                 __
This polite tolerance of shit like the OCA seems to be alive and
well among a disturbing number of my peers at various HP sites, 
as reflected by postings on our internal newsgroup.

It's mostly couched in terms of "a better environment for my
children, though I reject the witch-hung mentality", "homosexuals
have above-average earning capacity already, and 'way too much
political power", and our old friend "AIDS is g*d's punishment..."
Although these people are at sites other than my own, I feel like
these people are part of my family, and I get angry in the same
way.  I don't know if my anger makes my responses ineffective, but
I can't help but respond to this stuff. 

Mike Drayton      mdrayton@sr.hp.com       Hewlett-Packard Co.
                                           Santa Rosa, California
From: drp@dosbears.UUCP (David R. Preston)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: CABAL stuff
Date: 9 Oct 92 08:19:17 GMT
Reply-To: drp@dosbears.uucp
Organization: DosBears

In article <67388@cup.portal.com> Minotaur@cup.portal.com (Frank - Swilling) writes:
>
>La Posada, Leticia's -- Standard American-style Mexican dishes, but
>well-prepared, flavorful, and filling.  Great Salsa Verde.

You left out Line-up -- same owners -- south o'market -- they
don't get hyper if you're not wearing a shirt over your harness....

--
         David R. Preston   drp@dosbears.uucp dosbears@netcom.com
              Information gladly given but safety requires
               the avoidance of unnecessary conversation.
            D. R. Preston 584 Castro St. #614 SF CA 94114 USA
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: cjr10@cccvm.ccc.amdahl.com (Chris Russell)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:27:16 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corp.

In article <1992Oct14.031612.16975@macc.wisc.edu>
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
 
>In article <1687F1062B.CJR10@CCCVM.CCC.AMDAHL.COM>
>cjr10@cccvm.ccc.amdahl.com (Chris Russell) writes:
>
>>You're right Donald, every group should hate every other group. Every
>>minority group that has been stomped on by a majority group should
>>hold that bitter memory for the rest of eternity and make them offer
>>retribution. After all, as long as we remember it we can never be
>>really equal, can we?
>
>>Problem is, just about everyone, gay/straight, white/black, etc. can
>>lay claim to injustices done to them by some other group, somewhere
>>in history.
>
>I think you have just said, in effect that the Holocaust
>should be forgotten.  Not while I'm alive, it won't be, and
>I think I share that view with quite a few other people.
>Remembering is not what compromises equality; bigotry is.
>In the case of racism, it is institutionalized, endemic,
>systematic, intentional, remorseless, unabashed,
>through-and-through, ubiquitous, and (if the status quo is
>not *radically* changed) eternal bigotry.  Forget that, and
>hope is gone, utterly gone.
>
>Without in any way impugning your motives, I must say it
>seems to me your point that, in effect, "well, everybody's
>had some wrongs done to them," discounts and trivializes at
>least 15 generations of suffering wrought -- *none* of it
>willy-nilly -- by Europeans and their descendents in the New
>World.  To forget that is to excuse it, and that *cannot* be
>done, in the name of mercy and compassion, if nothing else.
>That it would also be ruinous in the practical sense need
>not even be invoked.
 
Memory is an integral part of human evolution and remembering our
past successes and failures, and more so the latter, is necessary.
Perhaps it is cliche to say that we should learn from those
memories and then move on. You're right, we should not forget the
oppression and struggles that have occurred in the past, whether
for one of the groups with which we identify or are a part, or for
others groups.
 
I would not discount or trivialize sufferring and oppression, and
did not mean to give that impression. Being tortured and put to
death is not a trivial issue to me.
 
I recognize that many inequities and wrongs still exist and it
is difficult to separate the threads of present oppression from
former opression. And depending upon which part of the world you
are currently observing, one may argue that conditions have not
improved at all.
 
If I may restate my original (somewhat sarcastic) comment, I would
ask whether we should always hold against a former oppressor, as
a class group, for what once was done after that wrong has been
righted, particularly when the individuals which comprise the
class identified as the former oppressor are not now the same
individuals that were originally responsible?
 
Chris Russell
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Joan-Rhymes (was Re: Sean)
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:42:24 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.190537.3069@macc.wisc.edu>,
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) considers the following to be
"*exact rhymes":
> 
> loan
> Joan
> shone
> tone
> roan (a reddish horse)
> sewn
> 
> and, not quite so exact a rhyme:
> 
> blown

Now it's *my* turn to be surprised. What's different about this one
(soundwise, I mean)?

> 
> Why this last word comes to mind, I can't imagine.

As the Duchess said (accusingly) to Alice, "You're thinking again."

--Robert (who suspects that Jess, given his Midwestern origins, can't
          distinguish among "merry", "marry", and "Mary")
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@vccnw05.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: M A D O N N A
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 19:53:41 GMT


Does anyone else find this Madonna discussion just a little bit RIDICULOUS?

I feel like I've channeled into talk.abortion. Pro and anti people just ranting
and raving at each other with no real hope of changing the other's position
on the issue at hand.

GIVE IT UP, girlz! :-)

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. **Clinton-Gore '92!**
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
"If a bullet should enter my brain, let that bullet destroy every closet door."
                                                                 -Harvey Milk
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Date: 7 Oct 1992 10:08:55 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Oct7.163023.18271@quantime.co.uk> 
roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips) writes:
> In article <1atdfaINNt8k@mizar.usc.edu>,
> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> > My birthday is December 9.
>
> Same as E. Schwarzkopf.

And Conchita Supervia, another of my favorites.

Arne
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Culture (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Date: 9 Oct 1992 18:30:04 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Oct9.235059.23110@meiji> 
harry@sanwaBGK.com writes:
| In article <1b2ltjINNpn4@mizar.usc.edu>, 
| adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
| > Just because you don't know, say, _The Bacchae_, does not 
| > mean that _The Bacchae_ is irrelevant.
|
| The Bacchae still rates in my book as one of the most revealing,
| disturbing plays Western culture has ever produced ... running the
| gamut from trance states to high camp drag, Pentheus gives our own
| popular icons a run for their money ... 

I agree wholeheartedly.  In fact, I would go so far as to say
that The Bacchae is the greatest play ever written bar none.
(I don't count screenplays as plays, or else I'd have said
Mary Pickford's _A Girl of Yesterday_.)

Arne
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Traditional Family Values
Date: 9 Oct 92 23:38:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Oct9.233826.8905
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <ldbtbeINNc8d@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> jav@rhiannon.sitka.sun.com writes:
>I am truely looking for the 'TRUE' definition of "Traditional Family
>Values".  Does anyone out there have information on where I can get
>this information.

Why, I'm glad you asked this question. Because even today, loving
Oregonians everywhere are collecting signatures to place *two new*
ballot measures on the amendment. One is aimed at making sure that all
traditional family values are placed in the Oregon constitution, and
the other is to ensure that all of the original laws of Leviticus are
followed. The Family Alliance of God thanks the OCA for their
wonderful inspiration.

The family values amendment quotes selectively from all over the
Bible. There are some truly significant traditional family values
specifed in the Old Testament, including the right to keep slaves, the
responsibility of a man to impregnate his sister in law if her husband
dies, and various laws governing the man's control over his wife and
children. These traditional family values have been upheld through
2000 years of Christian tradition.

The Leviticus amendment is more thorough - it aims to place a huge
chunk of the book of Leviticus (possibly the whole thing?) directly
into the Oregon constitution. If we're going to outlaw homosexuality,
we want to make sure we get hair cutting, oyster eating, and those
tacky cotton/poly blends. 

(I'm not making this up. FAG exists, and I'm a card-carrying member.
They've been running for a few months now, but they've just got a new
initiative drive underway.)
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                  Where do you conceal the gun in a bikini?
From: beezer@cc.utah.edu (BEEZER)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: [UPLOAD]: UTAH'S GAY AND LESBIAN RESOURCE GUIDE - #6 {45K FILE}
Date: 7 Oct 92 21:42:00 GMT
Organization: Salt Lick, UT
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In article <k=tzf8k@rpi.edu>, buckmr@vccsouth28.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes...
>beezer@cc.utah.edu (BEEZER) writes:
> 
>>Utah's Gay and Lesbian Community Resource Guide	1992 SIXTH EDITION
>>===============================================	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Thanks for posting this! I have put it in /pub/QRD/qrd/info/LISTS on 
>nifty.andrew.cmu.edu.  Interesting to see that there is so much stuff
>out there!

	Thanks, Ron.  Was certainly alot of research.  Hope it
	serves everyone well with an interest in Utah.

>I think I heard on THIS WAY OUT that some city council in Utah just 
>approved a non-discrimination ordinance. Anyone remember which city it was?

	Yes, that was Salt Lake City.  Unfortunately, with the events
	in Denver and Portland - I'm wondering if it'll be struck down
	within the next year.  There seems to be a pattern here.

	I've been observing something about strategic positions of
	the anti-gay movement.  For those familer with the Overlooked
	Opinions demographic survey - the eastern US is fairly dense
	in gay population; mid western US is sparse; Denver is dense;
	Portland is very dense; and Northern and Southern coastal
	California is VERY dense.

	With this in mind, it makes sense that the anti-gay movement
	would start a test in Denver - move to Portland, then to
	Orange County of Southern California.  With that much success,
	they could begin significant influence in major citys, and
	change the direction towards an assault on the entire Eastern
	US.  Somewhere along the way, Salt Lake City would do a 180
	over-nite; assuming the West coast caved in...

	One other interesting note.  For those familer with the Anne
	Frank Exhibit being harrassed in Portland, along with break-ins
	and threats to anti-anti-gay organizations (including churchs)...
	It was reported that calls made to the Exhibit called it a "hoax".
	That is exactly what happened here in Salt Lake two years ago.
	Neo-Nazi Skin-Heads were resoundingly calling the exhibit a "hoax".

	Considering that Neo-Nazi Youth have been organized strongly in
	Oregon - doesn't the connection to the OCA seem 'likely' ??
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: Why you people alienate so many...
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 23:22:38 GMT

dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) wrote: 
->I have some advice for y'all.  Try reading what he says, and drop the
->antagonism and see what changes... Perhaps the coversations will go a little
->better.  

hon, it's gotta go both ways (ooh!  a bisexual conversation...)  

they've gotta come into the discussion a bit more humble ... you know,
"you're all fucked up; you're doing it all wrong, and you're all white
boy buttheads ... " followed by whinging about how they aren't
accepted after they make their pronouncements.

... and hey, is that "you people" in the perot sense?

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: Pickford as Desmond:  in closing
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 17:01:27 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <1992Oct13.143340.318@spdcc.com>, rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob
Donahue) wrote:
> 
> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
> (Zzzzzzzz!)
> 
> 	Now for something, much more interesting and motss-relevant.
> 
> 	I've been fucked in Mary Pickford's bedroom.  Actually
> probably it was Douglas Fairbanks bedroom.  More than once.
> 
> 	No, it wasn't in PickFair, it was in their apartment
> closer to the studios that they used when they didn't feel like
> traveling all the way back to PickFair after working at the studio.
> [I don't remember the address, but it's a 5-6 story apartment building
> with a wing attached that has a turret on the 2nd-3rd floors.]  My
> first boyfriend lived in it (the wing) for a little while.  (He referred to
> the room as the "Fairbanks/Flynn suite".)  The building is
> near Chaplin's home.
> 
> 	The heating didn't work all that well.  Caught a cold.
> 
> BBC

Beautifully ironic.  A rather dry, rather *academic* discussion
about early and mid-period cinema (and, perhaps, one of those
truly 'great' flicks that 'never die') is too boring for poor
little Donna Who.  Too many *yucky* historical facts.  Too much
*analysis*  Donna Who does not like to think things through, you
see.  Donna Who much prefers to be told.  And so it is left to
the clueless, anti-history, anti-early-cinema-as-timeless twits
like *moi* to discuss cinematic history in much depth.  Not having
any 'fucked in this or that celebrity bedroom' stories myself,
I shall have to leave this realm of enlightened discourse entirely
up to Dear Donna, who I do hope didn't get too terribly sick from
that drafty room.

Melmothra, ACC