HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mikeq@freddy.CNA.TEK.COM
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: More about Wes
Date: 7 Jan 93 16:53:07 GMT
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Redmond,  OR.

According to the autopsy report, Dodd died of strangulation (slow) rather than
by his spine being snapped (quick).

Now, if the state can't murder a guy any more efficiently than that, they
should call on a professional. Like, maybe, a mob hitman (.22 behind
the ear), teenage gang member (Uzi), or right-to-lifer (pipe bomb).

Mike
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: jrm@pgroup.com (John R Mudd)
Subject: Re: Wesley A. Dodd
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 20:49:36 GMT
Organization: The Portland Group, Portland, OR

In article <1idkrkINNgv8@sumax.seattleu.edu> daveike@sumax.seattleu.edu (Eickerman) writes:
>The only way Republicans think they can win is to dig up dirt
>and falsehoods about their opponent, because they can't find anything good
>to say about their candidate.

Wow!  So can others join you in your own little world, where life seems 
to be far, far removed from reality?

... John
From: dxxb@hardy.u.washington.edu (David Barts)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Wesley A. Dodd
Date: 9 Jan 93 06:48:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: shelley.1ilsgaINNfcj
Distribution: pnw
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu

jamesd@techbook.com (James Deibele) writes:

>Either the death penalty should be abolished nationwide or we should have
>a streamlined appeals process for capital punishment.  The last minute 
>attempts to delay execution should be eliminated in most cases.  

>I admire the dedication with which opponents of the death penalty fight
>to keep criminals alive.  But I think it's time to remove the monkey
>wrench of continuous appeals from the current system, which is really 
>the worst of both worlds.

Why stop there?  Why not eliminate trials altogether?  After all,
all that those messy judges and juries do is hamper the efficient
operation of the criminal justice system.  It's time to make the
trains run on time.

-- 
David Barts  N5JRN                      UW Civil Engineering, FX-10
davidb@ce.washington.edu                Seattle, WA  98195
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren)
Subject: Re: Wesley A. Dodd
Organization: Test Systems Strategies, Inc., Beaverton, Oregon
Distribution: pnw
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 23:14:04 GMT

josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam) writes:

>In <1993Jan5.060212.11129@tessi.com> allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren) writes:

>>I find it
>>ironic how the State will perform the execution in a manner in which
>>Dodd himself killed his victims:  by hanging.  

>Actually, from what I've read he strangled them. 

You're right.

>Back when hanging was much more common, experienced executioners 
>compiled tables of how far a person should be dropped based on 
>height, weight, and/or build.  I seem to recall reading that 
>Washington uses an old military manual for this.  They seem to
>have done it right this time, at least, but if they start doing
>it a lot, eventual screwups are inevitable.

I heard on NPR while driving in this morning that Washington
did have to consult a WWII Army manual on how to properly hang
someone.  According to a newspaper report I read yesterday
(I'm *fairly* certain it was yesterday) in the Oregonian, the
plan is/was to have the noose just behind the left ear.  When
the floor is dropped, the correct operation would immediately
snap a vertebrae and render instantaneous death.

allen
From: charlesw@sail.LABS.TEK.COM (Charles Wilson)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Bill Clinton won't send his daughter to public schools
Date: 6 Jan 93 19:39:28 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <crystal.726283133@glia> crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Crystal) writes:
>In <MS-C.726280864.1103527590.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> Mark Crispin <mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> writes:
>
>>Well, the hypocrisy of the Clinton administration has already started.  The
>>Clintons are sending Chelsea to an expensive private school.  So much for the

>Likely the reason is more due to security and fear of the daughter getting 
>harrassed or kidnapped or something.  That's not something a parent will admit

>I see no hypocrisy, just common sense safety for the Presidential children).

Oh, I see.  They don't allow harrassment or kidnapping at Private Elitist
schools, only at the commoners public schools.  That makes sense.  You're
right, I should be happy to send my children to public schools were they
may be harrassed or kidnapped.  But not the President.  He has more 
important things on his mind.  HIS child should be protected from such
things.
From: paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Incredible Universe
Date: 8 Jan 93 15:26:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvaac.1993Jan8.152634.8819
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

In article <q0oZwB1w165w@jaiser.rain.com>, jerryg@jaiser.rain.com (Jerry Gaiser) writes:
|> andrew@frip.WV.TEK.COM (Andrew Klossner) writes:
|> 
|> > Incredible Universe is controversial here because they won't let you in
|> > without a membership card, which they issue.  The application form
|> > requires you to give quite a bit of personal information.  You must use
|> > this card each time you make a purchase, so IU can keep a complete list
|> > of everything you've bought.  Speculation is that they turn this
|> > information into targeted marking lists.
|> 
|> And you can bet your money that they'll never see me there. I work too hard
|> to keep my personal information personal to put up with that kind of
|> marketing technique.

Amen, brother. I, too, refuse to set foot in the place for that very reason.
My only temptation to show would to be to see how much of a stink I can raise
when they won't let me in. 

Has anybody tried to force the issue with them? It might be great fun to 
create a scene in front of the place. 

--->Paul, Creative Anarchy R Us
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              If you're really hip, the passing years will show.
                                           ......Tower Of Power

  paula@koufax.cv.hp.com   Paul Andresen  Hewlett-Packard  (503)-750-3511

    home: 3006 NW McKinley    Corvallis, OR 97330       (503)-752-8424
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren)
Subject: Re: Wesley A. Dodd
Organization: Test Systems Strategies, Inc., Beaverton, Oregon
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 16:24:18 GMT

mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM (Mark Crispin) writes:


First of all, let me state that I am still undecided on whether the death
penalty is justified.  I don't for a moment think that people like Dodd
ought to have lived (it's now after the fact), but I don't know if legal
killing is really legal.  In other words, how can we put truly, legally
state it's okay to put a convicted killer to death?  An eye for an eye?
Something to ponder . . . 

>In terms of the necessity of Dodd's death, one only needs to listen to what
>Dodd himself has said: there is no choice.  People such as Wesley Dodd and Ted
>Bundy can not be salvaged; they can never be made harmless enough to live in
>our society.

>We have a ghoulish idea of what constitutes ``mercy''.  Hanging kills by
>fracturing the neck, *not* strangulation, when done properly.  Death is
>instantaneous.  Yet, we prefer other means to render the incorrigible
>harmless.  We lock them in a cage to rot for decades, perhaps the rest of
>their lives, and live in fear of their escape.  I don't call being caged
>``living'' or ``merciful''.

No death row inmates, have, according to a report on NPR this morning, 
escaped from prisons in Oregon or Washington (where Dodd was hanged
earlier today).  In one respect, and hypothesizing that Dodd had killed
my two little boys, I'm not sure if hanging, to me, would justify a proper
punishment for Dodd.  For me, knowing Dodd was rotting in prison for the
rest of his life *might* make me feel more like he was receiving proper
punishment, but in looking at his execution, I see that one more 
child molester/murderer is NOT in society and one more prisoner is NOT
soaking up money in upkeep.  Also, no matter what could have happened
to Dodd, it still wouldn't bring back those he murdered.

>When we do execute them, we prefer the slow means with elaborate procedures.
>It is absurd that the opponents of the death penalty claim that being strapped
>on a hospital guerney with a needle pumping salt water into your veins for 15
>minutes before they hit with the pentothal is somehow ``merciful'' compared to
>something that kills in a fraction of a second.  Yet this grotesque and
>lengthy procedure is proferred as ``mercy''!

According to news reports, the trap door underneath Dodd was opened at 
12:05 AM, his body dropped down, there was a slight jerk in the rope, his
body turned slightly to the side, and doctors examined him at 12:09 AM,
proclaiming him dead at that time.  A news reporter who witnessed the 
hanging reported that initially, prior to viewing the hanging, he expected
the hanging to be a gruesome event.  After the hanging, in retrospect, he
and other viewers noted how *peaceful* it really seemed, and the reporter
stated that, "If I were going to be executed, that's the way I'd want to
go."

allen
From: andrew@frip.WV.TEK.COM (Andrew Klossner)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Bill Clinton won't send his daughter to public schools
Date: 6 Jan 93 01:44:55 GMT
Reply-To: andrew@frip.wv.tek.com
Organization: Tektronix Color Printers, Wilsonville, Oregon

[]

	"Well, the hypocrisy of the Clinton administration has already
	started.  The Clintons are sending Chelsea to an expensive
	private school.  So much for the great and gradiose promises."

Perhaps you could tell us when Clinton promised to send his daughter to
public school?  I miss this one.

Whether or not a First Daughter is sent to public school has nothing at
all to do with Clinton's public school policy.  Chelsea is going to a
school that can accommodate children of high-profile officials.  Even
if the White House were in Beverly Hills, a special school would still
be appropriate.  My daughter's public school classroom, for one, could
not function if staked out by Secret Service people, and wouldn't know
what to do with hungry media folks hanging around the steps.

I applaud Clinton for not turning his daughter into a symbol at the
expense of making Washington DC public school into a circus.

  -=- Andrew Klossner  (andrew@frip.wv.tek.com)
                       (uunet!tektronix!frip.WV.TEK!andrew)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: sjm2458@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (The Steve-meister)
Subject: Death Penalty
Organization: None to my knowledge
Distribution: pnw
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:08:02 GMT

My first observation is that I am a bit surprised with the 
dearth of discussion on this issue.  I really expected, based
on the lively debates of late, that the death penalty would have been
the main topic for the last couple of weeks.

While I can appreciate and even agree with the arguments put
forth by death penalty proponents, there are several things 
I find very disturbing about it all, and here they are in no 
particular order.

o  The party-like atmosphere with people singing and rejoycing about how
   *great* it is to put someone to death.

o  The government killing its citizens.  Probably not much to argue
   here, though.  Governments have been doing this since there have been 
   governments.

o  The ritualistic aspect of it all- the military handbook, the boiled
   and waxed hemp, the hood, the last words, the sillhouette.

o  That society demands that the killer be held responsible, yet also
   shrinks away from the consequences of its collective action. Most
   of the people I have spoken with and seen on television who support 
   capital punishment neither want to see the results when their wishes 
   come true, nor would they "pull the lever" themselves.

The following comments are not really relevent in some of the recent
cases, like Dodd, Bundy, Charles Campbell, and others where there is
really no doubt that they did the crimes:

Though not apparently a problem (yet) in Washington, I recall two
cases from Texas within the last 5 years: Randall Adams, of "Thin Blue 
Line" fame, and another man who was featured on 60 Minutes.  These men 
both appear to be INNOCENT but ended up on death row because prosecutors,
in their zeal to make someone (anyone?) pay the price for killing of
police officers, were able to find witnesses to say what needed to be
said for a death verdict in exchange for having charges dropped or reduced. 

Putting an innocent man in jail is bad, but putting an *innocent* man 
to death is SO bad, in my mind, that we cannot take the risk even if
there is the slightest doubt.

My conclusions:

So, if there must be a death penalty, it should be held in public for
all to see (or as one person has suggested, "hold it in the Kingdome and
have it on pay-per-view.").  This is necessary to make truly informed 
decisions.

Additionally, I don't think that there is any deterrent effect as long
as capital punishment is carried on behind closed doors, "sanitized"
for the public.
-- 
    Steve McCarthy, speaking solo por mio |   #include <witty_remark>
      reply: sjm2458@bcstec.ca.boeing.com |   #include <ascii.art>
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: zeke@fasttech.com (Bohdan Tashchuk)
Subject: Re: Death Penalty
Organization: Fast Technology   Beaverton, OR, USA
Distribution: pnw
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 07:32:23 GMT

In <C0E7pF.9yv@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> sjm2458@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (The Steve-meister) writes:

>o  The party-like atmosphere with people singing and rejoycing about how
>   *great* it is to put someone to death.

If I were in Walla Walla last night, I think I would have simply felt quiet
satisfaction. Some people literally shot off fireworks, and that seems to be
in quite poor taste. We should treat all people with dignity, even while
executing them. (A strange sentence, that last, isn't it?)

On the other hand, try this analogy. You have a virulent cancer in your body.
At great pain and expense you manage to excise this cancer. Is this not cause
for celebration? Dodd was a cancer on society.

>o  That society demands that the killer be held responsible, yet also
>   shrinks away from the consequences of its collective action. Most
>   of the people I have spoken with and seen on television who support 
>   capital punishment neither want to see the results when their wishes 
>   come true, nor would they "pull the lever" themselves.

I would have no problem doing either of these things. But I think the fact that
most people DO have a problem is both good and bad. Good because it means that
people are very aware of how serious a thing capital punishment is. Bad because
people often assume that others think the same way they do. They don't
understand that monsters like Dodd will happen, because they can't conceive
of doing the same things themselves.

>Though not apparently a problem (yet) in Washington, I recall two
>cases from Texas within the last 5 years: Randall Adams, of "Thin Blue 
>Line" fame, and another man who was featured on 60 Minutes.  These men 
>both appear to be INNOCENT but ended up on death row because prosecutors,
>in their zeal to make someone (anyone?) pay the price for killing of
>police officers, were able to find witnesses to say what needed to be
>said for a death verdict in exchange for having charges dropped or reduced. 

This business of allowing convicts to make up stories in exchange for lighter
sentences is horrible. Often the claim is by a cellmate. He says the suspect
"confessed" to him, for some reason.

It is a jury's obligation in cases like this to examine evidence VERY
carefully.

But then again, how many people reading this post take their jury duty
responsibilites seriously? How many others have weaseled out of jury duty
by having their company write a letter telling the court how important
they are?

>Putting an innocent man in jail is bad, but putting an *innocent* man 
>to death is SO bad, in my mind, that we cannot take the risk even if
>there is the slightest doubt.

Yes. In Oregon the jury must first find the defendent guilty, then in a
separate phase decide whether or not to impose the death penalty. Jurors
need to be very careful. But then again, nothing we have come up with so
far is better than the current jury system.
From: dxxb@hardy.u.washington.edu (David Barts)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Trust Me - I'm from the Government to help you
Date: 10 Jan 93 20:11:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: shelley.1ipvsoINNpid
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu

fyl@fylz.wa.com (Phil Hughes) writes:

> [much good stuff about Canadian health care deleted]
>Walter Bright (bright@nazgul.UUCP) wrote:
>: I also note that you live in America, not Canada.

>If I lived in Canada I doubt I would have much interest in attemting
>to improve the American system.  As a resident of this country I feel
>that improving our health care system is in my best interest.

Right after the presidential election, I happened to be listening
to "Cross-Country Checkup" (a phone-in talk show) on CBC (Canadian
Broadcasting Corp.) Radio (690 on the AM dial or 6160 in the
shortwave 49m band).

Most of the Canadians who phoned in with their answer to "What do
you think the Clinton Administration should do?" had the implementation
of a Canadian-style health insurance system as one of their answers.
I doubt they would have said so if the Canadian system was even
half the disaster it has been portrayed as by some people in this
newsgroup.

-- 
David Barts  N5JRN                      UW Civil Engineering, FX-10
davidb@ce.washington.edu                Seattle, WA  98195
From: fxars@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu (Allen R Sparks)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Wesley A. Dodd
Date: 11 Jan 93 02:22:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: camelot.FXARS.93Jan10172213
	<1993Jan08.181043.16982@Celestial.COM> <C0nqFM.6v9@agora.rain.com>
Distribution: pnw
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

In article <C0nqFM.6v9@agora.rain.com> stavros@agora.rain.com (Steve
Culliton) writes:
> In article <1993Jan08.181043.16982@Celestial.COM> bill@Celestial.COM (Bill Campbell) writes:
> >In <1993Jan5.212321.23381@tera.com> erik@tera.com (Erik Hedberg) writes:
> >
> >....
> >:Further clouding the issue is the fact that "life without parole" is
> >:*cheaper* than execution.  Some people might not agree with this, but
> >:this is what I was taught in a criminal law class in college.
         [Rest Deleted]
> What makes you think that with a life without parole, the convict
> isn't still going to make $10M in apeals while in prison?  And your
> argument presupposes that every convict costs that much in appealing
> the death sentence, which for Dodd, it didn't.  I think the book you
> learned from was slightly slanted.  It is far cheaper to execute than
> support for life.  The room is already made, rope is cheap, a hangman
> gets paid by the job.  The grave cost is the same whether the convict
> died from natural causes after live imprisonment or hanging.  Feeding,
> housing, medical, dental, guards, for life is a hell of a lot more
> expensive.  TTFN

The argument that it costs more to execute someone than life on parole
is a red herring.  The cost of appeals does cost more, but that only
strengthens the argument that the appeals process should be reformed.
=== Al
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren)
Subject: Re: Bill Clinton won't send his daughter to public schools
Organization: Test Systems Strategies, Inc., Beaverton, Oregon
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:55:38 GMT

mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (Mark Crispin) writes:

>Well, the hypocrisy of the Clinton administration has already started.  The
>Clintons are sending Chelsea to an expensive private school.  So much for the
>great and gradiose promises.

>Bill Clinton knows perfectly well what sending his daughter to public school
>in Washington DC would mean.  After years of ``just throw more tax money and
>all problems will be solved'' mismanagement, public schools are a nightmare; a
>lot happens there, but not very much education.

>It's very nice for the Clintons that they can afford to send their child to an
>expensive private school.  Too bad their supposed constituency -- the poor and
>middle class -- don't have the same luxury.  Too bad liberals have vehemently
>opposed giving the poor and middle class that luxury.

>I wonder if it's time for a Constitutional Amendment forcing all children of
>government officials to attend public school?  That'd get changes made!!

Mark,

I can see that you're very irate at Clinton on this, but both Bill and Hillary
said that Chelsea had a major say in what school she wanted to attend.  I
would give (and will, in the future) the same choice to my boys.  It would
not be right to *force* a child to go to a school they don't want to. 
Besides, at the private school, Chelsea won't necessarily be under the
microscope of her classmates and the press since many of the politicians'
children attend classes at the private school.

I don't demean FOR A SECOND public schools and I think that public
school officials in D.C. are being incredibly unrealistic and shortsighted
in not respecting the Clinton family decision.  I think one thing that's
quite clear about the Clinton family is that major decisions seem to be
discussed and shared amongst family members.  This is another case.

allen
From: dxxb@hardy.u.washington.edu (David Barts)
Newsgroups: uw.sun,pnw.sys.sun
Subject: Internal XNeWS error
Keywords: Sun OpenWin XNeWS error
Date: 7 Jan 93 18:55:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: shelley.1ihub0INN2qu
Distribution: pnw
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu

One of our professors just had OpenWindows die on him without warning,
with the following message printed on the console:

	XNeWS: Internal error detected (SIGBUS)
	       Report this problem to a knowledgeable person.

I presume this is YAOWB (Yet Another OpenWin Bug).  Is there a known
fix for it (aside from using X -- we run some stuff that requires
OpenWin :-( )?

Two more observations:
(1)  I have never seen this error before, so it seems to be pretty rare.
(2)  From what I have been able to gather, the user wasn't doing anything
     unusual, just working inside a SunPC window when everything crashed
     on him.

-- 
David Barts  N5JRN                      UW Civil Engineering, FX-10
davidb@ce.washington.edu                Seattle, WA  98195
From: sstrand@u.washington.edu (Stuart E. Strand)
Newsgroups: pnw.forsale
Subject: Exercycle
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:18:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: 128.sstrand-070193152703
Followup-To: pnw.forsale
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.95.36.218

Tunturi Exercycle, upright type, with reading stand.  Will throw in finger
type pulse meter.  $95 or best offer.  home phone:  206-542-1312

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/ Stuart Strand, Univ.Washington              sstrand@u.washington.edu /
/ AR-10, Seattle WA 98195 206-543-5350   uunet:  beaver!milton!sstrand /
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Newsgroups: pnw.forsale
From: ghazel@eskimo.com (Geoff Hazel)
Subject: Receiver and speakers for sale
Keywords: stereo
Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <-
Distribution: pnw
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 19:40:49 GMT


I have a Radio Shack receiver/amp and two speakers for sale.
The receiver is AM/FM, with turntable, tape deck and aux (CD?)
inputs.  The speakers are about 2' high by 1' by 1' (approx).
Real good sound to the system; we just don't have the room.
Asking $25.00 for all three items.
-- 
Geoff Hazel                  ghazel@eskimo.com
Edmark Corporation           206-556-8445
Box 3218, Redmond, WA        "the syntax is painful"
Xref: sparky pnw.forsale:2534 seattle.forsale:675