From: jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young)
Subject: Re: Atari Falcon Discount Supermachine  Re: Sydnes is gone?!!
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 12:15:02 GMT

In article <1992Aug16.041634.19769@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
>
>And I just don't think that's going to happen.

Sorry it is happening NOW with worldclass midi programs Notator and Cubase!!

>It was a joke referring to having a 68030 with a 32-bit bus.
>
>: YES!! Compare to A600 with no socket or 68030.
>
>Except the Falcon would still be more expensive.  And no, of course it
>doesn't have a socket for a 68881/2.  It's not an 020/030 machine.
>Makes sense, doesn't it?

NO! Advantage magazine said 68882 socket on board so you are wrong.
Falcon is AT LEAST 4 X faster than A600 and includes much much much
more so price of A600 is very poor value.  Compare to Falcon then
A600 should be almost free.

>Not necessarily.  I've been looking into it, and it should be possible
>to pull a "baseboard" idea with it, with a little work.  And in the
>short term, it'll be cheaper, much cheaper, then a 4mb ram card for
>the PCMCIA connector.

YOU are looking into memory board now??! MANY months passing and
nobody selling cheaps boards for A600 yet?  WHY??
IF 1993 comes and no boards come out then A600 is finished.     

>
>But to make another comparison, the wish-me bus used by the Falcon
>isn't anywhere near as nice as PCMCIA, which is at least a
>cross-platform expansion system.

YES you wish you has fast Falcon direct slots that people said is
TWICE faster then PC EISA bus.  You WISH A600 have anything but
memory cards with terrible price and slow 2400 modem card (high
priced too).

>
>: You must be expert designer because Next, Sunrize, SGI, Turtle Beach
>: all use 56001 so maybe they do not have you knowledge!  Turtle Beach
>
>You know very little.  The 56001 is not some awesome DSP, there are
>much better ones currently available.

??? What is price of awesome DSP you want?? 

>It doesn't make them foolish, I'm telling you it's not awesome.  It's
>nice, but nothing more.

When you have $700 computer to sell tell everyone specs pleae!

>It's being used for sound generation on the Falcon.  Sounds like the
>Paula's handling that just fine.   That's the point.  It's filling a
>function better left to other things, because anyone can tell you that
>there are better uses for a DSP than to produce sound.

Sorry Paula not doing 16 AND 8 bit stereo DMA like in Falcon.  Paula
cannot even do 1.44 floppy!

>It doesn't MATTER if Apple follows it.  It's got enough IBM backing
>that Apple means next to nothing.

Ok we are waiting for cheap memory card...WHERE IS IT??

>
>: IF 386 and video cards and ram cards fit in bus then it is good and
>: cheap bus.
>
>The way it sounds, it's not going to be likely you'll see this
>"processor direct slot", and that's more or less what it is, with more
>than one slot per system, as it's not a real bus.  No arbitration, bus
>mastering, etc.  It's NOT a bus.  It's access to motherboard signals.
>And the fact that boards MAY exist doesn't MAKE it a good bus, ISA
>being proof.

Sorry you are wrong again!  Advantage magazine said memory slot is
like other slot so ANY kind of 386 or 040 or huge memory board can
go in two slots.

C= waited 2 years to bring out 68040 board but it is ONLY for A3000T
and A3000 people still waiting for board from C=!!

>But Atari isn't giving any video specifications.  No mention of
>support for PAL/NTSC signals, no mention of signal quality, no mention
>of specific features generalized by that post.  Doesn't sound very
>"video-oriented".

Atari will tell all in few days then everyone will know truth!

>The point is, the Atari blitter is a joke.  It doesn't compare to the
>Amiga's blitter, which is actually a bit manipulator.

Sorry you are wroing again!! Advantage magazine with Falcon and
said blitter is doing VERY SPECIAL things now and Atari will
show all at German show.  Wait for truth.

>Not for sure.  Because many millions of people don't have a use for a DSP.

Sorry you are wrong again!! Even C= said there is many millions of
music people who want powerful music and sound machine.  Even in
stereo store almost EVERY thing is including DSP in it.  So 
entire world will look for low priced Falcons with DSP.

>: Not sure but A600 has invisible Localtalk LAN I think!!
>
>Except they mention the software for it being a separate package...
>If they're going to put network HARDWARE on the system, then they
>should put the SOFTWARE there too.  It's kind of a weak, half-hearted
>attempt at competing with Apple's built-in networking capabilities, if
>this is "how it is".

??? IF Apple brags about networking then Atari will brag about MEMORY
PROTECTION and true multitasking and 32 BIT bus and DSP and SCSI @
and IDE and 16 bit stereo DMA and video overlay and ...!!!!!
Sorry Apple better not compare with Atari in commercials or people
will scratch heads and buy millions of Falcons!

>
>: But flicker fixer is $200-$300 custom jobbie too!  Even DKB Megachip
>: is $300 custom jobbie so I hope Atari parallel port is FREE!
>
>You don't seem to get it:  First of all, the reason the Amiga flickers
>is because it's the STANDARD.  Televisions, those things you stare at

Falcon has overscan to TV too and people will not have to buy $200-$300
flicker fixer.  A600 has HIDDEN price because if people add up 
all things to FIX it then they will find poor value.


>And having a "non-standard parallel port" is a bit different than
>"flickery graphics".  You can't really make claims about knowing
>anything about video without knowing stuff like that, you know.

Sorry you are wrong again! Advantage magazine said it is standerd
parallel but is SUPER port so it will be fast and great with 
new things Atari will show at German show.

>Doubtful.  RCA jacks aren't space-pigs, you know.

Many billions of people have Sony mini headphones so putting in mini
phone is very smart.

>All these compliments are just making me ooze.  If I'm an expert
>designer now, maybe by the time I graduate I'll be able to take DH's
>job.  :)

C= is looking for people with Falcon 56001 DSP talent!

>Having two "sets" of joystick ports is a hack.  One set digital only,
>the other digital/analog.  Does it ring yet?

Hello whatRyou? Olympic mascot?? A600 has more than 2 joystick?! WHEN?

>
>: You forgot comment about 1.44 drive!  People said 2.88 like in new PS/2
>: can be used too so this is very good feature.
>
>It's a lovely feature, I'm sure.  But I'd prefer a floptical or a hard
>drive.  That's why I have a hard drive now.  I rarely use floppies.

With A600 it is IMPOSSIBLE feature so you better save $$$ for hard drive.

>Probably.  However, I still don't see the point of putting BOTH in.
>If low price is the objective, it would be cheaper to cut the throat
>of the worst offender, which, in this case, would be IDE.

Better ask C= what happenend to SCSI2 port in A600!!

>Resource tracking:  The OS keeps track of what you allocate and use
>and frees it for you upon exit.  Or, if your task dies, you can free
>everything it was using, and get everything back.

Better ask people what is wanted DIG and memory protection or
resource traking!  Millions will take Falcon feature.

>Sounds pretty primitive.  As if "spawning processes" was something
>never seen outside the Amiga/Unix community since 1.3/whenever...

How come you skip memory protection part??? Amiga community MOVING
TO PC community if 3.0 does not improve features soon.

>Atari has experts?  Who?  Nobody who CAN talk WILL until after
>release.  If the release comes into existence.

German show August 21-23 so experts will tell all soon.

>: Many people said Calamus is best in the world and it is nice that 
>
>Not.  There are far better ones, as any professional could tell you.
>However, it is probably the best for the ST.

Pagestream on Amiga is better than Calamus??  How come you did
not name better ones?  Too hard?!

>Very little software breaks on the A600.  VERY little.

WHO is lieing you or Amiga Format magazine?? 30-40% is LITTLE?!

>No, they should take the time to develop a few more applications, not
>that I consider a rolodex and a clock to be "applications".  The point
>is that they should have done more work.

You said 10X more on Amiga. OK NAME 40!!

>The Next doesn't arbitrate the 56001, either.  Is that an answer?  And
>the fact that the DSP isn't the BEST doesn't mean it isn't good, nor
>did I say it was the reason C= didn't use it.  Using a DSP for audio
>generation is a waste of resources.  That's why I think Atari should
>have done something else.

??? Advantage magzine said DSP in Falcon used for MANY things...cheap
fast modem, fax, IDSN..sorry Paula cannot handle in A600!
Atari is giving software to developers so DSP can be programed to
do many many things.

>: is very good value and many students can learn about DSP and 68030
>: and true color and Unix with it.  
>
>Why on earth would they learn about Unix?  It's nothing like Unix.
>Nothing.  If you've ever programmed Unix, you'd know...  It doesn't
>RUN Unix.  And "students" who would use the DSP and 68030 probably
>already know what they are, correct?

Sorry you are wrong again!! MultiTOS is very much like unix and
Atari will tell everyone at German show soon.


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