HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: vpcsc11@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (student)
Newsgroups: alt.society.anarchy
Subject: Re: Explaining anarchy to your friends?
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:32:50 GMT
Organization: San Francisco State University

In article <1992Nov11.072737.12882@news.duc.auburn.edu> singram@eng.auburn.edu writes:

>But then I tell them I'm an anarchist. And they can't accept it at all.
>I try to explain what it means, but they can't see past rioting and looting.
>I try to tell them that anarchy doesn't mean chaos and death, and they say 
>that I am believing in a total fantasy world if I think anarchy can work.
>`Human nature won't allow for it.'
>`How would you defend your self and family'
>`How would you protect your belongings'
>`How would any advancement be made'
>
>and so forth.
>
>Is a society where everyone respects everyone else SO FAR OUT OF
>TOUCH from the normal intelligent person that it is not even concievable?

Five hundred years ago, a nation free of monarchical rule would have
been inconceivable.  A hundred years ago, the thought that a woman could
be a world leader would have been inconceivable.  A hundred years ago,
the thought that American society would pass laws protecting the rights
of people with disabilities would have been inconceivable.  But these
things have come to pass.

You are blessed/cursed with the power of political imagination.  You
have the ability to realize the shortcomings of this way of life and
the ability to imagine alternatives.  It is precisely because of people
like you that governments will *eventually* crumble.

When you feel alienated and crazy, when you feel out of step with
your peers, remember the lines to that John Lennon song: "You may say
that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one..."

You're not the only one.
From: galt@peruvian.cs.utah.edu
Newsgroups: alt.society.anarchy
Subject: It's really that easy!
Date: 6 Nov 92 04:39:22 GMT
Organization: Some Educational Place in Utah


      So here I am again, montas@stable.ecn.purdue.edu, forging a posting
in the name of galt@peruvian.cs.utah.edu and, I could really write whatever
Iwant in here and make y'all believe that this other person wrote it. In 
replying to this post by e-mail, I think that it would either bounce back
or go somewhere in utah!
      What do I think about this? Kids, don't try this at home!

      H.
Newsgroups: alt.society.anarchy
From: montas@stable.ecn.purdue.edu (Hubert J Montas)
Newsgroups: alt.society.anarchy
Subject: Trying to Forge a Posting
Date: 5 Nov 92 22:56:33 GMT
Organization: None Really.


      Well, I heard a lot about forging messages on the net, so I
thought I'd try it myself. If It's as easy as this, then It's really
easy!

      Cheers,

          H.
Newsgroups: alt.society.anarchy
From: x551_003@ccvax.ucd.ie
Newsgroups: alt.society.anarchy
Subject: Re: Hypothetically speaking
Date: 13 Nov 92 12:38:49 GMT
Organization: University College Dublin

In article <MAD.92Nov4171117@spirit.clearpoint.com>, mad@spirit.clearpoint.com (Michael Davis) writes:
> 
> Following various threads about the role of government, who has a
> right to a loaf of bread, capitalist vultures, etc., etc., I ask the
> following hypothetical question:
> 
> Given that you have awakened in an alternate universe which is
> identical to the current one except that the government (if any) of
> the US has been replaced by one for which you were the sole architect.
> There are thousands of starving people and even employed people can't
> always make enough to avoid homelessness.  What do you do about the
> plight of the poor, And why?  (Insert smileys as needed.)
> 

> 
> (D) none of the above, rather________________________________

Hand over power to factory committees, workers councils etc so that we can have
Anarchism.   (If only it were this easy).

Andrew
From: tumidity@netlink.cts.com (Joel Garry)
Newsgroups: alt.society.anarchy
Subject: Re: Singularity
Date: 10 Nov 92 00:36:46 GMT
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

damiens@cco.caltech.edu (Damien Sullivan) writes:
> consider that neuron impulses move at about 120 m/s, while electrons
> can easily move at 120 million m/sec.  Even if you heavily disadvantage
> the electronic brain by postulating larger size, inefficiency of connections
> and such you still get an intelligence speeded up at least 10,000 times,
> and possibly a million times faster than human brains.  At the upper limit
> one second for us would be a week and a half for the electronic brain.
> Any comments?
There will be a qualitative difference, because fiberoptics is not
sloppy enough to emulate biology.\
> Bill Gates is twice as rich as Ross Perot.  Any ideas....?
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------

So he is 2**2 times the asshole.

--                    
INTERNET:  tumidity@netlink.cts.com (Joel Garry)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!tumidity
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
From: x551_003@ccvax.ucd.ie
Newsgroups: alt.society.anarchy
Subject: Re: Exploitation
Date: 4 Nov 92 12:40:16 GMT
Organization: University College Dublin

In article <DRW.92Oct30125120@euclid.mit.edu>, drw@euclid.mit.edu (Dale R. Worley) writes:

>> In article <1992Oct29.212134.2038@leland.Stanford.EDU> miballar@leland.Stanford.EDU (Michael Ballard) writes:
>>    Labor produces all social wealth; capital appropriates
>>    the lion's share of that wealth, [...]
> 
>  Capital must produce *something*, otherwise there
> is no reason to save and invest.  And it is clear that investment in
> tools improves the productivity of labor.  Otherwise, I couldn't be
> sending this message to you.

Capital itself is only money and a stack of money of whatever value
left in the corner of a room produces nothing.  People "save and
invest" because they get more back than they put in.  Not 
through some magic process however, this money is used to invest
in something which involves paying workers less than the value for
the goods or services they produce.

Investment in tools will improve the productivity of labour, as more
units can be produced per work hour. This is normally an advantage
to the individual capitalist, a disadvantage to the capitalists as
a class and often a disadvantage to the individual worker as it
means speedups and a reduction in employment.  Investment in tools in
itself however produces nothing without someone to operate those
tools (labour again).  Even in the concept of a completly robot
production line somebody, somewhere made the tools that made the
robots (Labour again).

Therefore capital itself produces nothing but rather is the means
to buy the labour power of others and steal some of that power for
the bosses.  Capitalism (or class society in general) lies at the
root of the division of society into order givers and order takers.
It also creates the need for police, army and all the other coercive
arms of the state.  It creates wars as the ruling class of different
countries squabble over markets.  It can not even provide the basic
nessecities of life for 2/3 of the worlds population.

It is for this reason that anarchists have been socialists and 
fought for a classless society.  A lot of modern day anarchists
in the US however seem to be no more than ultra liberals and
mystics.  Anarchism is not about changing the individual it is
about changing the world.  How about starting a discussion on
how we can go from A -> B ie how do we achieve anarchism.


Andrew ..................................

My views are my own and do not reflect my employers.
From: tumidity@netlink.cts.com (Joel Garry)
Newsgroups: alt.society.anarchy
Subject: Re: Last Try on Forgery
Date: 10 Nov 92 00:31:25 GMT
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

CrepeSuzette@Recette.de.cuisine writes:
>      I think that forgery has a lot to offer to anarchy. If one needs to do
> away with some kind of system, then one should exploit It's weaknesses
> until it collapses... What do you think about this?
> 
>      Crepe Suzette.
> 
>  
> 

I think it is a prretty bad idea.  First of all, it is well documented
that the address of the sender is unpredictable, between gateways and
what-all.  Second of all, see Oliver North and the president of 
Columbia (the nation) re: what happens to erased information.  Third,
the system collapsing in a chaotic fashion will not lead to anarchy,
it will lead to fascism (cf. Spain, 1936 anon and on and on...).
Really, it is much more useful to go deep underground and put more
subtle pressure on the society to change.  And wait for the right
moment...

--                    
INTERNET:  tumidity@netlink.cts.com (Joel Garry)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!tumidity
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
Newsgroups: alt.society.anarchy
From: kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum)
Subject: Re: (cont'd)
Summary: religion is just highly evolved collective solipsism
Organization: >>> Eskimo North (206)-FOR-EVER <<<
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 17:21:25 GMT

In article <1d1518INNisd@uwm.edu> glenne@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Neuromancer ) writes:
>Look at it this way.   If God doesn't value our freedom
>more than anything else, why the heck would he _wait_ to
>punish killers, rapists, and torturers?

Why complicate things by assuming a godEntity?  What useful purpose does
that serve, other than your own entertainment (no small thing in and of
itself, but it is essentially a solitary activity).  Even if it exists,
would it have comprehensible attributes or motivations?  The problem is,
every time a godEntity's existence is postulated, it essentially serves as
a wild card.  This is only useful for concluding arguments.

IMO, things like supreme beings, gods, etc. are nothing but
self-reflective/self-referential loop-phantoms conjured up by instances
of the Universe's Largest Finite-State Automaton (ULFSA),
the human brain, which, when in it's default semi-conscious idling state,
is unable to cope with self-autonomy.

>                                         Why not just simply
>step in and protect the victims now?  Why not make a universe
>where it is impossible for us to hurt each other, or at least
>make it impossible to hurt each other for our own pleasure?

[assuming, for the sake of argument, that such a preposterous
being as god could exist -- kurt]
Wouldn't be near as interesting, for one thing.  If I were a bored
supreme being, I'm not going find a set of finite state automata
very entertaining all.

>Why the heck did he give us free will in the first place?

For entertainment, of course.

>And if he doesn't go around locking us up in supernatural
>prisons that restrict even just some of our free will, what
>right do we as mere human beings have to lock each other up in
>prisons?  If he does not resist evil, what the hell gives us
>the gall to think that we have the right to?
> 
>Glenn                                glenne@csd4.csd.uwm.edu


Again, it looks like ULFSA does a fine job of building it's own prison,
just like a barnacle building it's little castle around itself.  IMO
it all boils down to excessive self-reflection.
-- 
kurt@grogatch.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum)
 Nostalgic conservatives will soon be referring to the Bush Era as
 "those Halcion days of yesteryear".
Newsgroups: alt.society.anarchy
From: singram@eng.auburn.edu (Scott Ingram)
Subject: Explaining anarchy to your friends?
Reply-To: singram@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 07:27:37 GMT

This is primarily for Glenn (Neuromancer) as his view of anarchy is 
closeest to mine in this group.

How do you explain to people WHAT anarchy is? I have several religious
and philosophical discussions at work, and have no problem explaining,
defending, or expounding upon my atheist and Zen-ish beliefs (my 
philosophy is similar to Zen, but is very self-oriented. It isn't
something I learned or read about from someone else.)

I can even get them   to see where I am coming from on these points, 

But then I tell them I'm an anarchist. And they can't accept it at all.
I try to explain what it means, but they can't see past rioting and looting.
I try to tell them that anarchy doesn't mean chaos and death, and they say 
that I am believing in a total fantasy world if I think anarchy can work.
`Human nature won't allow for it.'
`How would you defend your self and family'
`How would you protect your belongings'
`How would any advancement be made'

and so forth.

Is a society where everyone respects everyone else SO FAR OUT OF
TOUCH from the normal intelligent person that it is not even concievable?
In the last two years of my realizing that I was an anarchist, only you (Glenn)
and my ex-roomate have shared similar (although not exact) beliefs on
what anarchy was. Why is it so hard for people to understand. I have written
several times in my journal that I think that it is me, not the rest of the world.
for me to have these thoughts which are obviously so inconsistent with the
mindset of the rest of my peers (and we are talking educated college students
here, IQ levels well above the national average. Not the generic person).

Well. I have just gotten a bit of steam off my chest. Thanks.

Orion.
Newsgroups: alt.society.anarchy
From: drw@tarski.mit.edu (Dale R. Worley)
Subject: Re: Hypothetically speaking
Organization: MIT Dept. of Tetrapilotomy, Cambridge, MA, USA
	<1992Nov13.123849.49903@ccvax.ucd.ie>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 21:40:10 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.123849.49903@ccvax.ucd.ie> x551_003@ccvax.ucd.ie writes:
   > What do you do about the > plight of the poor, And why?

   Hand over power to factory committees, workers councils etc so that
   we can have Anarchism.  (If only it were this easy).

It isn't even that easy.  The people who don't have jobs would not be
empowered by factory committees, workers' councils, or the like.  Such
groups improve the lot of the workers by expropriating the facilities
in which they work.  (Which may be a good or bad idea.)  But that
mechanism is not available for those who do not have jobs.

Dale
Newsgroups: alt.society.anarchy
From: glenne@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Neuromancer )
Newsgroups: alt.society.anarchy
Subject: Re: hmmmm...
Date: 6 Nov 1992 01:34:27 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4


Steve,

You know there was something that struck me about you.
You didn't come bitching about people taking away each
other's property, and you didn't come bitching about
people hoarding their property.   No, I have a feeling
that you are the one of the truest anarchists that I
have come across.  An individualist.  I share many of
your sentiments, and yet there is a deep difference
in our outlooks toward life.  (Not a bad thing at all.)
Not only are there left and right leaning anarchists,
individual and plurality leaning anarchists, but there
are introvert and extrovert anarchists.
 
Obviously I am the introvert and you are the extrovert.
While I would be willing to die for my freedom, you would
be willing to kill for yours.  Yet I do not condemn you,
because I see that you do this not out of selfishness, you
do it out of a need to be free from the coercion of others.
 
My mother was very coercive, my grandpa was very lienient.
I learned that I could be like my mother and coerce my
freedom out of other people, but a coerced freedom means
nothing to me.  I learned that I could be like my grandpa
and revel in the acceptance and freedom that people gave me
of their own free will, and accept it when they do not.
Perhaps what I value above all is SINCERITY out of other people.
I have learned that I could use force to be free from other
people's outward violence, but this matters little to me so
long as they hate me in their hearts.  What matters to me
is not how you treat me, but how you feel about me in your heart.
Obviously, I cannot "blame" people for how they feel about me.
Just as I do not "fault" myself for my feelings towards other
people.  This is why I have no use for fault and blame.
 
I can tell that what matters to you is how people treat you,
and you could give a damn less how they feel about you so
long as they mind their own f'in business.  I get the impression
that is the way you might put it. ;)  Again it all boils down to
values.  I can accept your values, although they are not mine.
 
Glenn                               glenn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
 
P.S. If any tigers are roaming around the Milwaukee area,
looking to savage me, I will run like hell when I see 'em. ;)
From: CrepeSuzette@Recette.de.cuisine
Subject: Re: Last Try on Forgery
Organization: Dieting/No Substitute for Rioting
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:38:03 GMT

Keywords: 

In article <1992Nov6.215805.25811@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> SubZero@UnderTemp.Really.Chilly writes:
>     O.K. siblings, what I want to test here is whether a followup article
>which would include this one (using F), would or not disclose the home
>address of the forger. If not, then I don't really see who could tell where
>I'm posting from. A postmaster of some sort, or some kind of sender traceback
>system may be available somewhere on the net though. Does anyone know about
>this?
>     Anyways, one followup post to this, and I'm done experimenting.
>
>     Cheers to y'all (It's Friday after all!)
>
>     -273C
>
     So, the proof is there. By sending a followup message, one gets the
message ID and some kind of address of the true sender. There may be ways
around this.
     I think that forgery has a lot to offer to anarchy. If one needs to do
away with some kind of system, then one should exploit It's weaknesses
until it collapses... What do you think about this?

     Crepe Suzette.

 

Newsgroups: alt.society.anarchy
From: SubZero@UnderTemp.Really.Chilly
Subject: Last Try on Forgery
Organization: If you're cooler, you're dead!
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:58:05 GMT

     O.K. siblings, what I want to test here is whether a followup article
which would include this one (using F), would or not disclose the home
address of the forger. If not, then I don't really see who could tell where
I'm posting from. A postmaster of some sort, or some kind of sender traceback
system may be available somewhere on the net though. Does anyone know about
this?
     Anyways, one followup post to this, and I'm done experimenting.

     Cheers to y'all (It's Friday after all!)

     -273C

Newsgroups: alt.society.civil-disob
From: GECKO <gecko@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: David Irving is Coming?
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:43:40 GMT

          Greetings to everyone! 
 
          I have heard recently that holocaust revisionist David Irving 
          is staying somewhere around Niagara Falls right now, and that 
          he is coming here to Toronto on Friday to speak at some sort 
          of rally... 
 
          But I don't know precisely IF, exactly WHEN, or just WHERE 
          this will be taking place; thus I require any INFORMATION 
          that anyone can provide me with about the matter. 
 
          ANY information at all. 
 
          Thanks... 
 
                             - GECKO 
 
 
 
 
gecko@zooid.guild.org
From: pauls@css.itd.umich.edu (Paul Southworth)
Newsgroups: alt.society.revolution
Subject: Re: Revolution anyone?
Date: 7 Nov 1992 06:52:05 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan ITD Consulting and Support Services
NNTP-Posting-Host: stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu
Keywords: Earl W. Swokoski Jr.
Originator: news@stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu

In article <1992Nov6.202930.12351@ncsu.edu> elada@eos.ncsu.edu (ERIC  LADA) writes:
>	Hi everbody.  I was just wondering if anyone out there would like to get
>together and form a terrorist/revolutionary organization for overthrowing 
>governments and blowing things up. It would be lots of fun, and we'd probably 
>get to be on TV!(if we blew enough things up)   What do you say?  Email me or 
>real mail me, or better yet come on down to my house and we'll discuss our evil
>plans over pizza.

*sigh*

Get it straight, punk.  Revolutionaries are not terrorists.  The terrorists
work for the state.


Paul Southworth                    |           ftp ftp.css.itd.umich.edu
(Not speaking for)                 |         Political Archives in /poli
Information Technology Division    |     Writable incoming directory on:
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor  |         redspread.css.itd.umich.edu 

  <Representing myself.  Everything I say is for educational use only.>
Newsgroups: alt.society.revolution
From: eda347asft@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Re: Revolution anyone?y
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 02:25:40 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.202930.12351@ncsu.edu>, elada@eos.ncsu.edu (ERIC  LADA) writes:
> 
> 
> 	Hi everbody.  I was just wondering if anyone out there would like to get
> together and form a terrorist/revolutionary organization for overthrowing 
> governments and blowing things up.  It would be lots of fun,  and we'd probably 
> get to be on TV!(if we blew enough things up)   What do you say?  Email me or 
> real mail me, or better yet come on down to my house and we'll discuss our evil 
> plans over pizza.
> 
> 
> 	Eric Lada(future world dictator)


> writes:
>          Get a life, wannabe fucking commie..
>
>
Newsgroups: alt.society.revolution
From: whitmeye@den.mmc.com (Richard Whitmeyer)
Subject: Re: Revolution anyone?
Originator: whitmeye@surf
Keywords: Earl W. Swokoski Jr.
Organization: MMAG
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 03:38:50 GMT


In article <1992Nov6.202930.12351@ncsu.edu>, elada@eos.ncsu.edu (ERIC  LADA) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> 	Hi everbody.  I was just wondering if anyone out there would like to get
|> together and form a terrorist/revolutionary organization for overthrowing 
|> governments and blowing things up.  It would be lots of fun,  and we'd probably 
|> get to be on TV!(if we blew enough things up)   What do you say?  Email me or 
|> real mail me, or better yet come on down to my house and we'll discuss our evil 
|> plans over pizza.
|> 
|> 
|> 	Eric Lada(future world dictator)

Why start one? Just join the one of the many already in the business.
The CIA might not be hiring right now, but you could start there.
Unlike many organizations who overthrow governments and blow up things,
they've got a retirement plan and great benifits package.
As for revolutionary, you may have to look elsewhere, they're strictly
business-as-usual. I'm not sure about the KGB. They may have a hiring 
freeze in place, while re-organizing. Perhaps even lay-offs.
Oh yes, you want to be in-charge! Well that's different. What you need
is a cause not an organization. Just get yourself a cause, the rest will
come.
As for me, I'm not interested in any of these mainstream concepts.
Thanks for asking though.   
Be watching for you on TV.    
              
                                 Rich Whitmeyer

ps    Try alt.destroy.the.earth news group. They're miles beyond your
present goals.
From: elada@eos.ncsu.edu (ERIC  LADA)
Newsgroups: alt.society.revolution
Subject: Revolution anyone?
Keywords: Earl W. Swokoski Jr.
Date: 6 Nov 92 20:29:30 GMT
Reply-To: elada@eos.ncsu.edu (ERIC  LADA)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Originator: elada@c00506-119rd.eos.ncsu.edu



	Hi everbody.  I was just wondering if anyone out there would like to get
together and form a terrorist/revolutionary organization for overthrowing 
governments and blowing things up.  It would be lots of fun,  and we'd probably 
get to be on TV!(if we blew enough things up)   What do you say?  Email me or 
real mail me, or better yet come on down to my house and we'll discuss our evil 
plans over pizza.


	Eric Lada(future world dictator)
Newsgroups: alt.society.civil-liberty