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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 20:24:10 -0400
From:         KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU
Subject:      Re: let's rephrase the question

Hi, folks.
I wrote:
>>Instead of me explaining why homosexual partnerships should have the same
>>legal standing as heterosexual partnerships, why doesn't someone explain to
>>me why heterosexual partnerships get those legal benefits in the first
>>place.  That is, what compelling state interest is promoted by things like
>>special tax filing categories, spousal job benefits, etc.?  What is the
>>overall purpose of providing these benefits?

And Jamie replied (lots of stuff deleted):
>BUT, they are not entitled to make laws that violate the rights of
>others. A dumb state income tax doesn't in itself violate someone's
>rights. But if the tax is levied on yachts and not on trucks, simply
>because there is a popular prejudice against yachtsmen, that tax
>DOES violate someone's right, namely, the right of equal protection.
>
>So, one might object mildly to the legal recognition of marriage,
>while objecting much more strenuously to discriminatory recognition
>of some kinds of marriage, a discrimination rooted in prejudice
>against certain kinds of lives and preferences.

Well, yes, of course -- I agree with everything you wrote (even the deleted
stuff).  Let me clarify my intent.  First, just to be clear, I don't think
marriage is dumb, although I do think some of the laws around it are.  But
I think I'm really trying to approach the question through the "tiered"
method you discussed in some of the 14th amendment posts.

The idea is to try to figure out what state interests we're trying to
promote by giving various breaks to heterosexual partnerships.  Then we can
ask whether homosexual partnerships: (1) satisfy the same interests; (2)
violate those interests; or (3) have no bearing on those interests.  If the
answer is (1), then we should *promote* partnerships among homosexuals; if
(2), we can, in fact, deny legal status to those unions (assuming I
understand all this legal stuff); if (3), then I think we can't
discriminate because of equal protection.

I was also kinda hoping that people would see that the legal institution
itself, at least as it currently exists, has very little to do with
promoting "morality".

Hope that clarifies things :)
Kerry
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:06:00 EDT
From:         GRACZ1@ITHACA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: response to Brni

>>
>>    So they can't throw you in jail, but they can make sure you
>>  starve to death for your beliefs.
>
>Really?  If I don't get the job at Sun, I'm going to starve?  I can't
>accept the offers from SGI, HAL, IBM, McDonald's, etc?
>
>How is Sun going to keep me from working somewhere else?
>
>How many people really have only one possible employer?
>
>When is the last time someone starved because an employer didn't like
>their beliefs?  (I can point to hundreds of thousands of people jailed
>because "society" decided to lock them up.)


     Well, lets see.... we have all sorts of people blackballed
  during the MacCarthy era.  On top of that, of course, there's the
  fact that jobs at, say, IBM and McDonalds are hardly comparable.
  Plus, during a recessionary period (like now), if you get fired
  for your beliefs, finding another job isn't exactly automatic.
  And, of course, there's one less employer recommendation you'll
  be able to count on when applying for future jobs.

>-andy

G. Racz
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Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 12:13:58 -0700
From:         Andy Freeman <andy@SAIL.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: response to Brni

>> >     Well, lets see.... we have all sorts of people blackballed
>> >  during the MacCarthy era.
>>
>> Considering that was GOVT action, you don't want to bring that up.
>
>WHAT?  First of all, McCarthy was a relatively minor feature of the era
>that was named after him.  Blacklisting started before he began about
>Communists in the State Department, and it continued after his censure.

So?  I didn't claim that blacklisting was unknown in the private
sector, but that the worst examples had significant govt involvement.
Given that, it is absurd to think that govt will protect against it.

-andy
--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
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Date:         Sun, 13 Sep 1992 22:16:27 -0500
From:         "VALENTINE M. SMITH" <CDELL@UMKCVAX1.BITNET>
Subject:      "On Intolerance"

"On Intolerance"

Though my lungs have precluded much activity this weekend save
reading, and I'm a nervous wreck over giving my first professional
paper in a few days, I would offer a few lines of thought to the
business occurring in Germany. I belive it to be part and parcel to
the events in ex-Yugoslavia - or at least the same kind of mindset
seems to drive both.

Rightist sentiment in Germany appears very anti-foreigner, and also
anti-immigrant. A similar attitude from Serb against Muslims, and to
a lesser degree Croats, is occurring in Bosnia and Serbia. Russians
in the Baltics are being dealt with, apparently, harshly on the
grounds that that they had been the oppressors in times past. So far,
only harsh words have been exchanged in Czecho-Slovakia, but in
Romania, Hungaraians there face what "foreigners" of all stripes are
dealing with in Germany, just more low-key and less violent.

What is happening in Germany is deplorable and disgusting. Swastikas
and Seig Heiling in public evokes memories of the equally intolerant
Brownshirts of the early Thirties. One can empathize with the problem
of no jobs in eastern Germany, the rising cost of re-unification, and
the fearsome strain of 600,000 refugeees from the Bosnian fighting,
and an estimated half million more that came after the fall of the
Wall.

But to chase people out, or burn where they live, or assault them on
the streets solely because they are non-German would appear to
emulate the awful intolerance of an earlier era. This week, the posts
on 9Nov89-L, once a BBS trumpeting great hope for the future of a
unified Germany, are now echoing the xenophobic anti-foreign
sentiment manifesting itself through the skinhead mobs on the streets
of Germany.

At a time of intense change, many people have been dislocated. The
reordering of Europe and the former USSR, and other places, continues
at breakneck speed. An enormous number of people have been killed
this year around Europe and the "CIS," a state that appears will
continue into the winter months. More are being shattered emotionally
and politically by the latest manifestations of mob rule that have
happened in Germany this past month.

Germany has been reunified a relatively short period of time - about
two years. All that been hoped for by reunification could cease to
happen if "King Mob" continues to reign on German streets. Yes,
reunification has had, and will have, problems. Mob violence against
"foreigners" will not make the situation better, but it will stretch
necessary resources more.

Intolerance breeds hatred and violence. Is there not enough of that
in Europe already? VMS
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 14:20:08 -0400
From:         KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU
Subject:      Re: Library Fines

Roger:
>>I was actually amazed to find, once I became involved with a librarian,
>>                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>(...STUFF DELETED...)
>
>>Kerry
>
>It appears you tried yet another way to get out of paying the fines.
>Did it work?????  ;-)

Yep :)  Actually, though, it may not be working in quite the way you
imagine.  As a faculty member, I'm not liable for fines (hence my amusement
at receiving the "we'll hold your grades" note).  But now, when my d.p.
comes over for lunch in my office, he scans my shelves to make sure I
haven't forgotten anything (which generally encourages me to remember when
my interlibrary loan books are due).

My new motto is "librarians are wonderful; everybody should have one."

Kerry
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago, Computer Center
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xerox-l
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 10:33:53 CDT
From:         "Ed Garay (u12570@uicvm.uic.edu)" <U12570@UICVM.BITNET>
Subject:      troff to X9700F

I can't find the name of the company and product that makes it
possible to print troff documents on Xerox LPSs.

I know the product exists and comes out of a company based in
the Boston area. Could any of you please help me with the details?

Thanks.
--- Ed
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 23:53:41 EDT
From:         "William B. Renfro" <wrenfro@ST6000.SCT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: XEROX 4075 Printers - Can someone help me find someone who
              Sep 4, 92 11:55 pm

Yea, When I go into work tomorrow I will check on the availibility fo the
drivers.  I know they exist because I have them in the office but I don't
know about buying them or if they are free with purchase. I'll get back to
you real soon.

Will Renfro
wrenfro@sct.edu
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Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago, Computer Center
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xerox-l
Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 10:08:50 CDT
From:         "Ed Garay (u12570@uicvm.uic.edu)" <U12570@UICVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Barcoding Zip Coses on a 4050...

   On Tue, 8 Sep 1992 13:01:28 GMT Christopher Fenton said:
   >Anybody got any ideas how to implement bar coded zip codes
   >on a 4050????  Is there a font for this or do I have to make my
   >own????  Please e-mail me, and I'll post a summary if I get enough
   >responses.

The Xplor fontbank has all kinds of barcode fonts, including a Postnet
font, called MB030P (I/J/L too), which is the one used for encoding zip
codes. If your organization is a member of Xplor International, you can
get these fonts for a nominal charge; for more information, contact
Ron Forbes at (213) 825-8702. If you are not an Xplor member, I don't
know what the policy is; call Ron anyway.

Any other sources for the Postnet font?

Hope this helps.
--- Ed Garay
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xerox-l
Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 11:06:39 CDT
From:         Tim Stoodt <STOODT@NUACVM.BITNET>
Subject:      DYL280 letter writing.

Hi,
     Is anyone out there doing DYL280 letter writing to a XEROX 4090
type printer?  I have a user who wants to do it.  The DYL book refers him
to a JCL parameter: CHARS=(table,...,table).  My JCL book says that is to
specify 3800 printer's character sets.  It also mentions DCB=OPTCB=J
parameter.  I've used OPTCD=J to specify that the second byte is for
changing fonts but OPTCB is new to me.  He wants to be able to have his
DYL program control font changes in the middle of a line etc ..
                                             Thanks for any help. T.S.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xerox-l
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 08:42:03 -0500
From:         Jean-Michel ROY <jean-michel.roy@ISSY.CNET.FR>
Subject:      FIBRE400

Is it possible to use DJDE to select a special BAC with FIBRE400.
I am testing this product which convert PostScript to Interpress
with a XEROX 4050 Printer and not too much informations from XEROX France.
From: cxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Christopher Fenton)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xerox-l
Subject: Barcoding Zip Coses on a 4050...
Date: 8 Sep 1992 13:01:28 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


	Anybody got any ideas how to implement bar coded zip codes
on a 4050????  Is there a font for this or do I have to make my
own????  Please e-mail me, and I'll post a summary if I get enough
responses.

	Thanks...



	C. H. Fenton


-- 
    cxf12          ---===<<< A I S Computer Operations >>>===---
@po.cwru.edu               Case Western Reserve University
Christopher H. Fenton    "Faster Pussycat... Kill, Kill!!!!"
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Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 23:55:36 EDT
From:         "William B. Renfro" <wrenfro@ST6000.SCT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: XEROX 4075 Printers - Can someone help me find someone who
              uses
              1, 92 8:05 pm

>
>  I am still trying to find anyone who uses these printers.
>
> If someone can refer me to someone else it would be most appreciated.
> These are high speed laser(type) printers.... ( not tabletop).
>
> Any information would be most welcome and I may even be able to
> make it worth your while monetarily.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mack
> mdgoodma@crdec8.apgea.army.mil
>
Well Mack I am A printing systems analist for Xerox in Atlanta. We have a
customer that still has one of those printers.  It is an old 75 page per
minute printer that does not really user lasers it uses an older technology.
From what I could gather from the other analist in the Atlanta office It only
prints in XES(Xerox Escape Sequences). It is really a dumb printer. WE
curently sell much better.  If you want more detailed info just send me your
mailing address and {I'll send you more thru the mail.

Will Renfro
wrenfro@st1500.sct.edu
From: pc@MBUNIX.MITRE.ORG (Paul J. Campbell)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mailbook
Subject: Re: Compiled version of the Mailer
Date: 15 Sep 92 16:20:17 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Posted-From: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA
              15 Sep 92 10:39:28 EDT." <9209151543.AA18796@mbunix.mitre.org>

>On Tue, 15 Sep 1992 09:30:49 EST Jack Lubowsky said:
>>Richard,
>>Is there a compiled version of the Mailer available?

>2. If you mean RiceMail, then I do not distributed compiled code, although
>   all of the code is compilable.  The reason I don't do that is the
>   requirement for the run-time library: I can't distribute runnable code
>   if you don't license the IBM REXX/370 runtime library.  Very few people
>   seem to have just that and not the compiler, so I simply make the code
>   compilable and people do it themselves.

i have been waiting for someone to bring this up. it seemed like
sending compiled code would have been a good solution to the 16m
limit problem experienced at some sites.

>Richard

/pc

-------------
Paul Campbell
pc@mbunix.mitre.org
Bedford, MA
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Organization: New York University - University Computer Center
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mailbook
Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:28:58 GMT
From:         Kwong Kam <URKWK@NYUCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Printall

I do not know if this was asked before, but it looks like mailbook list
is not archived.
In Mailbook 92.01.03, the Printall command prints selected mail items
seperately.  In 92.01.01, the Printall command prints selected mail items
and the index as one big printout.  Needless to say I prefer the one
big printout.  Does Printall command work as designed or is it changed
un-intentionally because of the use of print exitpoint?

Kwong Kam     |   New York University    | internet: urkwk@uccvm.nyu.edu
(212)998-1157 |University Computer Center|   bitnet: urkwk@nyuccvm
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Organization: Universiti Teknologi Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur
X-Acknowledge-To: <SABARIAH@UTMKL>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mailbook
Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 11:25:28 MAL
From:         Sabariah Ismail <SABARIAH@UTMKL.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Mailbook size

On Thu, 10 Sep 1992 08:31:10 CDT Chris Barnes said:
>Without sounding condesending, this sounds like a User Services problem
>of teaching the users how to do all of this stuff.  IMHO, it is
>pointless to try to "systems-manage" what the users are doing.  Teaching
>the users about all the things you mentioned above IS the answer.  I
>realize that you are tired of doing that job, but surely there is some-
>one there that has that duty.
>
Firstly I apologize if this is far way from what this list should be discussing
We had realized the importance of user education and is taking actions to
improve our user services. With a very small number of operation staffs(just
like anywhere else!) any complain by end users would still fall back to us.
So here, I'm looking for a more systematic approach that needs minimal human
intervention to handle this small problem but do take our time esp. when we
need to support group of users who wish to use a tool without doing lots of
reading.

Richard, would you consider adding a DISKFULL exit in the future version/rel
RiceMail?
Anyway thanks to everyone who had responded to my problems. I'll consider
implementing some of the good ideas!!
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Organization: Networking & Computing Systems, Rice University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mailbook
Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 10:39:28 CDT
From:         "Richard A. Schafer" <SCHAFER@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Compiled version of the Mailer

On Tue, 15 Sep 1992 09:30:49 EST Jack Lubowsky said:
>Richard,
>Is there a compiled version of the Mailer available?

1. If you really mean Mailer, then it's always compiled (C, I think).
2. If you mean RiceMail, then I do not distributed compiled code, although
   all of the code is compilable.  The reason I don't do that is the
   requirement for the run-time library: I can't distribute runnable code
   if you don't license the IBM REXX/370 runtime library.  Very few people
   seem to have just that and not the compiler, so I simply make the code
   compilable and people do it themselves.

Richard
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Organization: Slippery Rock University - Computer Center
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mailbook
Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:23:45 EDT
From:         Fran Hensler <FJH@SRU.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Function key description lines
              24 Jul 1992 13:40:55 CDT from <SCHAFER@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU>

On Fri, 24 Jul 1992 13:40:55 CDT Richard A. Schafer said:
>I've also added code to allow previous and next to display deleted items:
>
>    NEXT (ANY
>    PREVIOUS (ANY
>
Thanks, Richard, for these new options.  I use the PREV(ANY option almost
daily.

/Fran
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mailbook
Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 09:30:49 EST
From:         Jack Lubowsky <LUBOWSKY@SNYBKSAC.BITNET>
Subject:      Compiled version of the Mailer

Richard,
Is there a compiled version of the Mailer available?
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mailbook
Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 09:53:56 EST
From:         "Scott (nmi) Mattes" <COTRSSM@SEA04VM.NAVSEA.NAVY.MIL>
Subject:      Fairwell to network, for now

  Today I will be losing my Internet access, for an unknown length of
time.  This is due to the downsizing of our IBM mainframe and
consolidation of certain applications to another IBM data center.

  So, for the time being at least, I bid farewell to the net. I wish
to thank all those who have helped to enlighten me on various things
(work, religion, eating, etc) while I have had access.

  If anyone needs to contact me, my 'home' and voice addresses will still
work.

  Needless to say (I will anyway) the ANONYMOUS FTP account
(144.11.100.1) is going away also.

--------------------------------------+----------------------------------------
Scott (nmi) Mattes                    | No success can compensate for failure
Work: COTRSSM@SEA04VM.NAVSEA.Navy.Mil | in the home.  David O. McKay, Prophet
Home: 73027.3270@CompuServe.COM       | and President of the Church of Jesus
Voice: (703) 769-2917                 | Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1951-70
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Organization: Universiti Teknologi Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur
X-Acknowledge-To: <SABARIAH@UTMKL>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mailbook
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:35:11 MAL
From:         Sabariah Ismail <SABARIAH@UTMKL.BITNET>
Subject:      Mailbook size

Hello all,
    I need to get some idea on what is the reasonable size of a notebook. The
number of RiceMail users is on the increase here in our university and most of
these people are VM/CMS "illiterate". I am quite tired of having to help these
people clearing their disk space, explaining to them the benefits of using
names file to distribute their incoming and outgoing notes, the importance of
doing their mail housekeeping rather than keeping the junks in their ALL and
UNREAD notebook and bla-bla...
    The users are given 2 meg of virtual storage and about 2000 blocks or more
of disk space. We couldn't afford to give them larger area because of the
limited resource. Giving large areas would also mean having to give them a
larger virtual storage and everyone knows its impact on overall system
performance. Setting the option LOG to NO for outgoing mail would only give me
more headache when these people wish to retrieve back whatever they had sent
out. I was thinking 5000 lines limit is reasonable enough. Any opinion from the
rest of the netters over this issue and your experience please.

Thanks in advance
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mailbook
Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 14:49:55 EDT
From:         Kent Fiala <SNOKLF@VM.SAS.COM>
Subject:      Abends from header-editing

Since I never directly edit the headers of mail I'm sending, I haven't
paid a lot of attention to what has been discussed about changes in
support for header-editing in Mail 92.  I think I'm correct that
you no longer get a nasty warning message if you edit the headers,
and that you are specifically allowed to overtype headers (but
correct me if I'm wrong).  This does seem to leave a gray area: you
still may not be allowed to delete certain header lines, but are
not warned if you do.  For example, a user had a NOVALUE abend in
the following section of code

  Else Do
    cc_prefix = ' '
    '.%CCEND EXTRACT /CURLINE/POINT/LINE'
    /* If we're deleting the START line, we need to repoint it later  */
    ccline = line.1

because she had deleted the line pointed by %CCEND, so the
LOCATE .%CCEND and hence the EXTRACT failed and line.1 had no value.
There seem to be numerous exposures to this error (was the same exposure
in Mail 90?).  It also seems like it might be a difficult situation to
recover from, but I'd at least like to see return code checks, and some
way for the user to avoid losing their message.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kent Fiala <snoklf@vm.sas.com>
SAS Institute Inc., Cary NC 27513 USA                 919-677-8000 x6646
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