HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: ron@turing.toronto.edu (Ron Wessels)
Subject: Re: Northern Canada trip report
Keywords: Canada, trip, IFR horror
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Date: 14 Aug 92 05:36:31 GMT

dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC)) relates, in his story about
flying to Northern Canada:
>So here we are enroute Houlton to Sept-Isle in hard IFR. ...
    [ discovery that the LE charts are out-of-date ]
>I am now suspicious. Pull out the IAP's. Oh no, again 1990 two years
>out-of-date!

Nope.  The dates on the bottom of Canadian approach plates are the
last-modified date.  There is no way (short of having the date-of-
latest-print list) of telling whether the version you have is current.

In fact, according to my Canada Air Pilot (approach plate book) which
was verified up-to-date two weeks ago, the dates on the Sept-Isle
approaches are 15Nov90, 7Mar91, 18Oct90, and 15Nov90 for the four pages.

The Canadian LE enroute charts, however, are valid only for a limited and
specified period.

>So, what can I do to stay alive?  Check the old approach plates. Sept-Isle
>has an ILS-7.  ...  Check the altitude for the initial approach segment --
>2200 feet.

I assume you just mis-remembered the details:  it's actually an ILS-09
with 2000' initial approach (from the south).

>We had some difficulty clearing customs. Bill had brought a semi-automatic
>rifle to satisfy the survival requirement for flight in unpopulated
>areas. Unfortunately these are prohibited in Canada although this is
>not clear from the information provided.

My understanding is that this is one of the things pointed out in the
"Flying to Canada" brochure from AOPA.  It's certainly one of the common
errors that US pilots make.  And the rifle is not one of the required
items ... it is merely a recommended item.

>After discussing it, it looks like if we refuel in Kuujjuaq ...

How >do< you pronounce that?!  Both Kuujjuaq and Kuujjaurapik (no, neither
are typo's!) have manditory frequencies, so radio calls are required.
"<mumble mumble> radio, this is ..."?!

-- 
Ron Wessels		University of Toronto		ron@turing.toronto.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: system@gnd1.wtp.contel.com (Marty Anilane)
Subject: Re: DUATS question
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: system@gnd1.wtp.contel.com
Organization: GTE Government Systems, Federal Systems Division, Chantilly, VA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:35:15 GMT

In article <77562@ut-emx.uucp>, lihan@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Bruce G. Bostwick) writes...
>In article <skip.123.713445342@mitre.org> skip@mitre.org (Skip Guild) writes:
>>
>>You may get an official answer from CONTEL as they monitor any message on 
>>rec.aviation with DUAT in the title, but this is a first reply based on my 
>>own experience:   You must be on file with the FAA as a certified flier to 
>>get access to DUAT with no restrictions.  Whether this includes student 
>                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
>Is it possible to get access to DUAT with 'restrictions' if one is not
>a licensed pilot (yet)?  If so, what are the restrictions and how does
>one gain this access without a PP-ASEL, etc. ticket number?

The restrictions are that you are not allowed to file flight plans.
Furthermore, the weather briefings are not considered "official" briefs
required before takeoff. (The data is the same as "official" briefs, but
no record is kept for SAR functions.) Also presently on the GTE CONTEL
system, you cannot use Golden Eagle Value Added services (presently
it offers graphic maps) although that will change later this year.


> 
>Pardon if this is a stupid (or frequently asked) question, but I've
>been sitting quietly curious about DUAT for a while and have been
>wondering if there was a way for us poor broke fliers-to-be to check
>out this service..
> 
All non-pilot users must telnet to duats.wtp.contel.com (or 131.131.7.106)
and answer all prompts to receive service.

You can also can dial 1-800-767-9989 which provides modem service up
to 9600 baud and MNP level 5. Non-pilots enter their last name.

If you have any problems, or if you feel that you should be on the
certificated pilots list call 1-800-345-3828.

If you have further problems or questions, feel free to E-mail me.


					Marty
> 
> 
> 
>-- 
><BGB>
>lihan@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu        /     "I can't complain,
>(really Bruce Bostwick)        /   but sometimes I still do"
>from the great state of TEXAS /         --Joe Walsh--
----------------
 Marty Anilane, GTE Contel Federal Systems, P.O. Box 10814, Chantilly VA. 22021
 Internet: "system@gnd1.wtp.contel.com"    (703) 818-4413
----------------
From: gerlach@vf.jsc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Purchasing an RV3 and looking for Net.Wisdom!
Date: 19 Aug 1992 15:30:40 GMT
Organization: NASA Johnson Space Flight Center

__

I am considering the purchase of a RV3 built in 1982 by John Harmon.  It has an
IO-360 and a C/S prop.

Is there any net.wisdom out there before I take the final leep????

Thanks in advance.........

-- 
$    ..  Just squawking and talking
$  ....  David A. Gerlach CFI-IMEI/NASA-JSC/GERLACH@VF.JSC.NASA.GOV     
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: tom@quax.GUN.de (Thomas Mildenberger)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Heard on the air (was: "remain clear of the ARSA...")
Date: 19 Aug 92 09:45:44 GMT
Organization: *private Amiga site Cologne*
X-Newsreader: Ann 0.9

In article <1992Aug13.223715.18852@aero.org>,
        lmiller@aero.org (Lawrence H. Miller) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug12.142620.3193@ducvax.auburn.edu> dmcleod@ducvax.auburn.edu writes:
>>>>
>>>>UAL:  "Coast Approach, this is United, ahhh, United, ummmm...just a
>>>>       sec.  Coast, this is United, lessee, United, ahhh, United 634,
>>>>       2300 for one-three-thousand."
>>>>
>>It's been a few years since I saw the cockpit of an airliner but I have
>>seen several that had a large dial on the yoke showing the flight number
>>in big numbers.  It would seem to make a lot of sense for pilots flying
>>a lot of different flights daily.
>
>       On a recent flight with Alitalia from Rome to New York,
>       I noticed that the flight engineer's panel for the 747
>       had something where the flight number was dialed in.
>       Unfortunately the level of English was such that it 
>       was not really possible to get an explanation.  My
>       assumption was that this was part of the ACARS communication
>       system, and not just a mechanical reminder of the 
>       flight number.

Sounds like the flight data recorder. We have the same type in our L1011-Tristar.

And let me state: Only the Boeings have this dial on their Steering column, some
compsanies use it for the callsign, some others for the altitude, they are cleared
to. Both makes sense.


--
Thomas  Mildenberger  Annostr. 78 D-5000 Koeln 1 tom@quax.obb.sub.org
+49 221 32 67 09              tom@quax.GUN.de        +49 221 32 11 41
From: henrik@mpci.llnl.gov (Henrik Klagges)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Russian Mi-17 helicopters for sale
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:51:34 GMT

sam@inavex.neoaci.msk.su (Konstantin V. Samotescul) writes:
>We are offering for sale two Mi-17 helicopters (one-new,other-used).
Now that is way cool ! Buying soviet equipment over the net ! I'll 
forward that to our local pilots (one has a Mig-15 from China).

Cheers, 

	Henrik

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack)
Subject: Re: GLiding instruction
Reply-To: reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack)
Organization: The Wollongong Group (East Coast Operations)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 18:04:17 GMT


In article <18AUG199210200746@vxcrna.cern.ch>, cohler@vxcrna.cern.ch (Mike Cohler) writes:
|>LAst weekend, one of our instructors did a normal instructional flight,
|>until a few feet from the ground.  The pupil, then suddenly pulled out the
|>air brakes, and let the speed decay.   The instructor tried to put the brakes
|>back in, but the pupil froze on the controls and the instructor was unable
|>to over-ride the locked out air brakes.  A very heavy landing ensued, but
|>neither pilot was hurt, partly through the use of impact absorbing cushions
|>in both seats.   I wonder if any experienced pilots out there have come
|>across this before, and if so, what YOU have done or would do to prevent
|>the same thing occuring again ?  In this case the aircraft is damaged and wil
|>be U/S for some weeks whilst the undercarriage mountings, and skid mountings
|>are repaired.
|>Any offers ?

I'm told the solution is for the instructor to carry a large multicell
flashlight like a MagLite. Mount it within easy reach of the instructor
and place a placard on it (preferably in view of the student) reading,
"In case of student freeze-up, remove flashlight and strike student
vigorously."

--
Reece R. Pollack
PP-ASEL -- Octopus Flying Club (based GAI)
Recovering from the -IA written exam...
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre)
Subject: Doodling around the airport
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:14:53 GMT

Just thought you all might enjoy this little story.

I was out and about yesterday evening to chalk up some experience:
getting ready for a short and soft landing at "Antique" next weekend,
doing 70 KNOT S-TURNS (so there! :-), getting my night currency back,
other misc stuff.

While I was waiting to take off again at Palwaukee (by now it was full
dark), one of the school's planes turned final and landed.  As I was
watching it on short final, it looked.....well.....odd.  The most
noticeable thing was the lack of a landing light.  "Okay," I said,
"they're practicing landing at night with no light."  But despite that
it still looked odd.  As they were flaring, I figured it out:  they
didn't have any navigation lights on.  Uh oh.  I *almost* said something
right then, but decided not to.  I took off and thought about it some 
more, and finally decided that if I still didn't see the lights on downwind,
I'd say something.  And I even figured out what to say.  I looked on
downwind and still could only see the beacon (at least THAT was on).
"Cessna 1234X [tail number changed to protect the guilty], your nav
lights look very dim."  "Ok 8VL, thanks".  When I landed, I noticed
that they were shining much much brighter!  :-)

Pilot practical jokes:  just east of the touchdown area for runway
16 (which was the active that night) is a quadruple drive in.
Wouldn't you know that one of the screens more or less faces the
runway, and an airplane turning from the parallel taxiway onto the
runway will almost certainly have its landing light shine on the screen 
for at least a second.  I just couldn't help but linger at that
certain point in my turn for just a few seconds longer.  "Oh, sorry,
seem to be having trouble turning just now."  :-)  :-)

If I could get the sound somehow, I could sit on the taxiway and
watch the movie.  :-)

		William LeFebvre
		Computing Facilities Manager and Analyst
		Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
		Northwestern University
		<phil@eecs.nwu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: sloubtin@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Sylvain Louboutin)
Subject: Re: Transition Glider to Power
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:56:21 GMT

In <21AUG199213271714@vxcrna.cern.ch> cohler@vxcrna.cern.ch (Mike Cohler) writes:

>I try to land with the airbrakes about half out on gliders, I hold the glider 
>just above the runway and let the speed decay until the aircraft stalls
>to a gentle touchdown, with the HALF BRAKE condition.  Of course if you shut the

I agree that ideally the approach should be done with half-brake
conditions.  However as soon as I am clear of obstacles and start
flaring I open the brakes fully.  I don't see the point of leaving the
brakes half-open then.

and no,  I have never been told to fly the glider into the ground...  

-- 
//Sylvain R.Y. Louboutin, fax: (+353-1)772204, e-mail: Louboutin@dsg.cs.tcd.ie
//Distributed System Group, O'Reilly Institute, room F.35, (+353-1)7021539 ...
//Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, -Ireland-  ASK-18
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: skip@mitre.org (Skip Guild)
Subject: Re: Circle-to-land: which direction?
Organization: The MITRE Corp
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 11:40:08 GMT

In article <jcmorris.714081534@mwunix> jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes:

>What sayeth the net: should the pilot's approach be described as
>"circle left" (of the centerline) or "circle right" (making right
>turns)?  Or should left/right be explicitly excluded from the
>description because of the ambiguity?

>Joe Morris / MITRE

I've heard Nashua issue both types of instructions and never thought 
them to be ambiguous.  "Make left-hand traffic for 32" or "Circle west
of the field for 34" when making the approach to Rwy 14 both require an 
initial turn to the right followed by normal left-hand pattern.

Skip Guild / MITRE
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: cessna@kn5f.jsc.nasa.gov (Mark Taylor Evert)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: portable scanners
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:24:19 GMT
Organization: Loral Space Information Systems

In article <1992Aug20.072220.16291@walter.cray.com> gregf@eastrg1.cray.com 
(Greg Fairbrother) writes:
> I attend many air shows each  year and would like to purchase a portable
> scanner to listen to the pilots.  I would especially like to listen to
> the military teams like the thunderbirds and blue angels.  There seems to
> be two different aircraft bands one for commercial and one for goverment.
> 
> During an air show which band is used for military jets?  I am looking at
> a scanner from Radio Shack but none of their portable scanners have the
> goverment aircraft band.  Could you recommend a brand that would have
> this capability?

Usually, civilian frequencies are used at air shows.  A common one is 
123.4.  There are scanners that will receive military bands.  Get an issue 
of Popular Communications Magazine which has many ads for them.

Mark T. Evert
Friendswood, TX

My opinions are my own.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: What type of plane is a King Air Super 200?
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
	<1992Aug7.202114.27816@walter.bellcore.com>
	<GLENDA.92Aug7153105@escoria.lanl.gov>
	<KROHN.92Aug9111632@i60s23.ira.uka.de>
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 03:34:53 GMT

NASA has a King Air 200 and it operates on a 15,000 ft runway quite
well.  The plane, N7NA, lives in the San Fernando Valley and does a
shuttle run every Tuesday and Thursday to Fox (WJF), Moffett NAS,
Edwards AFB, and then back.  They don't seem to run out of runway here
at Edwards, even on the 105-deg days.

I've worked at Edwards for decades and also flown out of Fox for about
as long.  I knew that fields like Fox were fairly short, but I thought
that all big airports had 15,000 runways until the late 70's, when the
issue of alternate landing fields for the Space Shuttle started being
discussed, and I found out how rare they really are.  Amazing what we
take for granted.

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous


--
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: ddb0248@mcnews.mcdata.com (David Beal)
Subject: Re: Life Insurance question
Organization: McData Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 14:43:56 GMT

In article <1992Aug5.231249.15139@tfs.com> jorge@tfs.com (I shall return) writes:
>
>Any leads to cheap Life Insurance for pilots is appreciated. 
>
If you are (or can somehow claim to be) an electrical engineer, the IEEE
has excellent life insurance with no exclusion for flying an airplane.
In fact, the rates are so good that it's almost worth joining the IEEE
just for the insurance - apparently EEs are a good risk, except for the
crazy ones that fly. :-)  The policies are underwritten by New York Life,
so you can assume that they won't disappear in the unlikely event that 
a claim is made.

Dave Beal
McDATA Corporation
ddb@mcdata.com


Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: earlb@ssd.intel.com (Earl Brabandt)
Subject: Re: Where oh where is mpuckett?
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division, Intel Corp.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:07:50 GMT

In article <5528@transfer.stratus.com> lee@bluefuzz.sw.stratus.com (Lee Cooprider) writes:
>It's been so long since there has been an mpuckett from-line that my local
>archive has purged them all and I can't find an address to email to.  Has the
>ecoaviation business dried up, or are you just keeping it to yourself? :-)

I hope Margaret doesn't mind if I relate this but I ran into her at OSH and 
I believe the flames awhile back were unfair to her and she's now kind 
of burned out (so to speak) on Rec.Av from them--thus no recent postings.  
Maybe if she's still listening, a few e-Mail apologies from those involved 
will bring her back.  (Try mpucket@jacobs.cs.orst.edu.)  From what 
I saw of the flame war, things were getting a little too personal.

Earl
From: scott@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Scott Turner)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: big iron on short runways
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:55:31 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO

In rec.aviation, dst+@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) writes:

>   Not all jets have thrust reversers, but all the turboprops I know of
>   have reversible pitch propellors, which help a lot on short field landings.

OK, since others have nitpicked some of Dave's King Air details, I might
as well join the happy throng of nitpickers :-)

Turns out that not all turboprops have reversible pitch props either.  A
good example is the new baby King Air C90B.  It's also interesting to note
that the article I read on the C90B mentions that turboprops are not
allowed to use beta in calculating landing distances.  Apparently, the
feds feel that it simply takes too long to manipulate the lever into
beta to be effective at reducing landing distances for the average pilot.  

The 'B has something called "Ground Fine" which I assume puts the prop
into a very draggy fine pitch which gives it better short field numbers
than the 'A which does have beta.  The pilot can select "Ground Fine"
without going through a gate mechanism, so it's allowed to be used for
landing distance calculations.


Scott Turner  scott@hpisla.LVLD.HP.COM
HP VXI Systems Division
Turbo Arrow N2134N  "Baby"
From: gle@l42bb.jsc.nasa.gov (glenn ellis)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: TRSA's
Date: 20 Aug 1992 18:42:51 GMT
Organization: nasa-jsc

In article <1992Aug19.151636.11102@sdf.lonestar.org> 
rjohnson@sdf.lonestar.org (Robert C. Johnson) writes:
> I guess what I'm asking
> for here is some real world experience with TRSA's.  Is it as
> simple as the AIM makes them seem?  If I want it, it's there, if
> I don't, I don't have to do anything except fly along in an
> uncontrolled (from the ground) bliss?  Any experiances would be
> welcome!

If it helps I'll tell you my real world story and the difference between 
ARSA's  and TRSA's.  I won't try to listen to ATC and a baseball game on 
the ADF when I'm in an ARSA but I will when in a TRSA.  "Stand by Beaumont 
approach, Biggio's at the plate with the bases loaded."

Really, if you feel you require radar service - call the TRSA, if not, 
don't.  If you're flying with mode C they'll know where you are and where 
you're going without you having to tell them.

- gle -
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: bdaniels@ssf-sys.DHL.COM (Ben Daniels)
Subject: Re: Encore for mpucket
Organization: DHL Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 00:56:01 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.065305.193@leela.cs.orst.edu> mpucket@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Margaret Puckette) writes:

	stuff deleted ...

>...my own "Never Again" story took place late at night, 2 years ago,
>in the clouds, when the engine quit because I RAN OUT OF FUEL!  So I
>was heroic and saved the plane, my life, and my kids...now do you think
>I should share my 'clever' handling of this emergency knowing I'd be
>reamed for the series of stupid decisions leading up to this?  Would
>you expose yourself (like I just did...boy, this is dumb :-< ) ??????

No, I think it is courageous. Telling the truth is what sets us free.
When someone else does it, it inspires me to do it too.

I don't have any flying stories yet, but I'm sure I will if I just
keep handing them my credit card.

I remember coming home one night and forgetting to put the kick stand
down on my motorcycle before I got off.

I can remember a lot of times as a skydiver with an attitude of
	 It'll probably work
	 It won't happen to me
	 I can handle it

These things are an unavoidable consequence of getting up in the morning.
The real damage is the fear and shame that makes me keep it a secret.

I've passed the written, and soloed, and this weekend I start cross
country. I've been reading rec.aviation for several months and have
really gotten a lot out of it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
email:  bdaniels@ssf-sys.DHL.COM
From: ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Hawker Siddeley Vulcan
Date: 23 Aug 92 15:37:42 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

> The Vulcans were bombers (initially intended as nuclear  
> bombers; their only action was in the Falklands).  They  
> have all been retired.

Trully amazing things.  I saw one at Dulles (Transpo) years ago.

-Ron
From: wisch@Apple.COM (Ed Wischmeyer)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: IFR rules changes upcoming, thanks to AOPA
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:39:59 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA


AOPA News

From time to time, folks ask, "What has AOPA done for me recently?"
Here's some f'rinstances:

Along with everybody else, AOPA has been fighting the insanity of no
IFR until you're already up to the MEA, or whatever that nonsense was.
We won. No more cards or letters, please.

Another point that AOPA has been fighting is the increased minima on
precision approaches with the middle marker out. In a test of 183 pilots,
or some such, the testers found out that the altitude error (sorry,
I don't have better information) was 6 feet better without the middle
marker than with. (By the way, the increase in approach minima without
the middle marker was for Part 91 operations, and not for military or
for Part 121). The long and the short of this is that come October or 
so, there will be *no* increase in minima with an inoperative middle
marker, thanks to AOPA.

Ed Wischmeyer
From: schayne@acs.ucalgary.ca (Stephen Hayne)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: IFR/Semi-Auto Horror, Aerobatics, & maybe some other stuff
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:32:58 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <1992Aug18.030718.21105@rp.CSIRO.AU> pryan@rp.CSIRO.AU (Philip Ryan) writes:
>
>In article <19920814.132639.414@almaden.ibm.com>, martinl@torolab6.VNET.IBM.COM writes:
>
>> On to a new topic. How many aerobatic netters are there out there? In the
>> last week, I have heard an Eagle and a S1S mentioned.

This is somewaht related to this thread...

I am about to take the plunge (again) and buy a share in another
plane - this time, a Super Decathalon.  It has the IO-360 and is
in BEAUTIFUL condition.  Today, I did my first roll, loop,
immelman and hammerhead (+4,-2).  I think that I am hooked.

Now my question: Does anyone have anything they would like to
share about this aircraft?  I noticed the ONLY downside today -
hot start.  We couldn't.  We pulled up to the fuel pump and after
fueling, it wouldn't start.  Any suggestions - the fellow I flew
with seemed to know several things to try, but none worked.

Thanks! (e-mail is fine).

-- 
Stephen C. Hayne, Assistant Professor, MIS, University of Calgary
    __!__         (403)220-7161        schayne@acs.ucalgary.ca
_____(_)_____     "I love to fly - my banker will verify."
Newsgroups: rec.aviation