From: udumudi@vanilla (u v babu srinivas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,wpi.students.desis,soc.culture.indian.telugu
Subject: Re: Narrow Hindu Beliefs: Tipu Sultan & proof
Date: 15 Dec 1992 23:42:27 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: vanilla.wpi.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Krithivas (rkrithiv@pima.intel.com) wrote in response to Fafat:

: Though the tone of your enquiry suggests cynicism and an already made
: up "mind-set". Here's the proof ..... 

[quoted text]

: The author is not an Indian.This might give many, some strong reason 
: to trust. Sadly it is a commonly observed phenomena.

: Also: 
: There is a temple town in TN : TiruVannamalai. The reigning diety of 
: the  famous  TiruVannamalai kovil/temple, is  ArunaChaleeswarar. The 
: very name as Aruna + Achchala symbolizes  matter-energy equivalence. 
: [Soure: Tattva-Darsana]. It is a  great achievement to have realized 
: this fundamental relation. 


this is for fafat and his friends who have tough time believing
anything that goes against the western interpretation of our ancient
past:

when one of our fellow sci'ers pointed out the possibility that our
ancients might have been of the opinion that the universe is cyclical
in nature, these people reacted with disdain.  though propositions like
'our ancients used nuclear weapons' draws the same reaction from me, I
have learned to respect our ancients' philosophical achievements.

A more knowledgeable person on the net can give more references, but
here is one in Bhagavad-Gita [8:17-21] --

"those who understand the cosmic laws know that the Day of Brahma ends
after a thousand yugas and the Night of Brahma ends after a thousand
yugas. when the day of Brahma dawns, forms are brought forth from the
Unmanifest; when the night of Brahma comes, these forms merge in the
formless again. this multitude of beings is created and destroyed again
and again in the succeeding days and nights of Brahma. but beyond this
formless state there is another, unmanifested reality, which is eternal
and is not dissolved when the cosmos is destroyed. those who realize
life's supreme goal know that I am unmanifested and unchanging. having
come home to me, they never return to a separate existence."


strip the hindu terms off and read it out of context.

well, that's close to the present day theories of an expanding and
contracting universe. the above was not my translation, but from a
translation of Gita I have.

I can't deduce anything directly from this, but I would definitely give
a benefit of doubt to our ancients. I will be SURE only the day I am
convinced that such cosmological theories can be obtained from
philosophical speculations [with a minimal amount of empirical data
that would've been available in those days]

as far as the engineering advances of our ancients are concerned, I can
visualize an imaginary ancient laughing at us, sitting on top of the
iron pillar in Delhi that doesn't rust.

also, here is a small quote from a book I have been reading --

"philosophers are often correctly accused of indulging in armchair
psychology (or physics..), and there are plenty of embarrassing tales
about philosophers whose confident {\em a priori} declarations have
been subsequently disproved in the lab. One reasonable response to this
established risk is for the philosopher to retreat cautiously into
those conceptual arenas where there is little or no danger of ever
saying anything that might be disconfirmed (or confirmed by empirical
discovery)..... When it comes to conceptual issues scientists are no
more immune to confusion than lay people. After all, scientists spend
quite a bit of time in their armchairs, trying to figure out how to
interpret the results of everybody's experiments, and what they do in
those moments blends imperceptibly into what philosophers do. Risky
business, but invigorating."


I have read about a 'Bell Theorem' which was put forward by a physicist
from CERN in 1964, which attacks the assumption of local cause. This, I
remember from the book I read, is based on [or, similar to] the
Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen experiment, which demonstrates the
incompleteness of quantum-mechanical description of physical reality.
The theorem implies that there is some thing very wrong with the
commonsense view of the world, even at macroscopic level. The Bell's
theorem, and that of David Bohm, point at the existence of a {\em
unbroken wholeness}.

Anybody who is familiar with the Veda and the upanishad know what they
are talking about. read the last chapter of the book 'The Dancing Wu Li
Masters' if you haven't done that already. See the Vedas and Upanishads
in light of what the author talks about [see, you always need a western
to tell you about your importance]. you will understand what our
ancients were talking about when they were out to experience that
'ultimate reality.'

there are many ways to realize the Truth. our ancients have done it by
studying the 'inside'. the west is still trying to find the same Truth
studying the 'outside.'

physicits are becoming increasingly open. If you are in search of the
ultimate reality, you can't afford not to be.

regarding the symbolic way in which the 'truth' is described in our
pura'n'as -- the profound philosophical truths that have been result of
thousands of years of thought cannot be comprehended by common people.
if you were asked to let people know of these thoughts in the easiest
way possible, what would you have done?

							 -- srinivas
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|                                                                          |
|                                                                          |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:40772 soc.culture.indian.telugu:1390