Newsgroups: soc.culture.vietnamese
Subject: Re: alt.politics.vietnamese (was [POL] Re: DIALOG(Thua^.t hoa`i))
From: Cuong Bui <bui@BERLIOZ.NSC.COM>
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 11:06:02 PST
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

I missed the original posting, but this one should qualify as the first APV
article. I fail to see any need to resort to profanity to make a point.

c.b.

>Newsgroups: soc.culture.vietnamese
>From: tin@smsc.sony.com (Le Tin)
>Subject: Re: alt.politics.vietnamese (was [POL] Re: DIALOG(Thua^.t hoa`i))
>Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 06:23:50 GMT
>Lines: 110
>
>
>In article <22990@drutx.ATT.COM> kvt@druwa.ATT.COM (KVT) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec23.043827.13926@smsc.sony.com> tin@smsc.sony.com (Le Tin)
 writes:
>>#   Sigh, I posted the full information and still some people get
>># confused.
>>#
>>#   I am not forcing anyone to do anything.  I am _asking_ people to
>># voluntarily follow some simple guidelines.  This is in the interest
>># of keeping SCV free of the flamage that some people seem to enjoy.
>># We have gone through this discussion many times before on whether
>># politics should be discussed on SCV or not, and how to make sure
>># people who are interested in the discussion can continue.
>># ....[deleted]....
>
>>I hope Tin Le didn't think he is becoming the one who DICTATES WHAT IS
>>GOOD AND WHAT IS BAD FOR THE SCV. By saying "asking", not "forcing",
>>and then labelling who would not do as he asks (moving followups to
>>APV) as "a*hole", there is only difference between "asking" and
>>"forcing" that he alone can understand. Whether Tin Le opposed or
>>agreed with this alt group does not mean SCVers automatically need
>>to do the same.  Whether Tin Le creates one mail gateway (or a
>>thousand for that matter), that fact does not mean people have to do
>>what Tin Le "asks" people to do.
>....blah...blah...[deleted]....
>
>  Thank you for taking all that time to repeat exactly what I said
>in my message.  Now that we have the same message repeated twice, any
>one else want to make a third time to be sure? :)
>
>  It maybe hard for you to understand, but let us examine what I said
>and what you are making a big thing out of.
>
>>#   Yes, I realize that not all sites carry alt.*, and the ones that
>># do may not carry all alt.* groups.  That is why I have _also_
>># created a news to mail gateway, similar to the SCV relay mailing
>># list.  With these two methods, that should cover everyone (news
>># and mailing list).  That leaves only the people who enjoy flaming
>># in public and be a complete a*hole and public nuisance.  _Those_
>># people I leave to the SCV netters to deal with.
>
>  Earlier this year, there was the big arguments between Chris Chu, Longan
>and many others too numerous to mention.  I believe (please correct me
>if I am wrong) that most people on SCV was very tired of it and wanted
>them to stop.  SCVers even asked me to do something about it.  I explained
>at the time that I have no authority nor do I feel that I should be a
>"net policeman."  This is a problem that the SCVers should take care of
>themselves.  And so they did to the few that persisted in making a complete
>nuisance of themselves (the term a*hole may be strong but it certainly fits).
>What was that term that people was referring to SCV then?  Oh yes, it was
>cho+. ca' (fish market).  The place certainly stink and smell like one. :)
>
>  During these flame wars, I did not see you, Kim V Tran, do anything
>about it.  As a matter of fact, you joined in.  Even now, you are resorting
>to character attack on Thi.nh.  Is that why you are protesting against
>APV?  You prefer to make personal attacks in public?  A bigger audience
>for you?
>
>>Probably, in his overpowering wisdom, Tin Le didn't see that a USENET
>>group has many nice features over a mailing list: no need to subscribe
>>or unsubscribe, no need to watch for your mail space for flooding
>>(no need to worry about mails when you're on vacation for example),
>>kill file to delete unwanted articles, don't have to depend on
>>somebody's generosity for services,.... even another USENET is created
>>for this purpose, this alternative needs to be thoroughly discussed
>>by all interested SCVers before it becomes a "non-a*hole" way.
>
>  This is nitpicking.  I provided _two_ alternatives, mailing list AND
>newsgroup.  So what do you have to do?  Find something else to complain
>about.  Several people has already explained about HOW ALT.* HIERARCHY
>WORK.  Would you like to have it explain to you again?  I am willing to
>mail you the complete FAQ on what Usenet is and how it work.
>
>  The alternative has been discussed before AND SCVers DID asked me
>previously to create another newsgroup for political discussions only.
>They asked for talk.politics.vietnamese.  I can not create that without
>justification (per the Usenet guidelines).  Therefore, I created APV to
>use as the justification.  A number of SysAdmins has emailed me after
>I created APV to ask why.  Evidently my explanations to them were good
>enough -- as we can see that the group is now starting to appear around
>the world.
>
>  BTW, if you would like to see previous messages where SCVers discussed
>this AND asked me to create a new newsgroup, let me know.  I archive
>SCV and will be happy to dig it up for you.
>
>  I did not do this [created APV] lightly.  It took 6 months of thinking
>and discussing with people through private email and meetings before I
>agreed to it.  It is not my problem if you missed the discussions.
>
>  If you have a _real_ good reason, let us all hear it.  Otherwise, stop
>nitpicking.  If you got something against me, take it to email, SCVers
>don't care for these stupid flame wars.
>
>Regards,
>Tin Le
>--
>.----------------------------------------------------------------------
>. Tin Le                    Work Internet: tin@smsc.Sony.COM
>. Sony Microsystems
>. Office: (408) 944-4157     Other Internet Addr: tin@szebra.Saigon.COM