HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: siegfried_r@spcvxb.spc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Shitty Teachers!
Date: 9 Apr 92 15:13:14 GMT
Organization: St. Peter's College, US

In article <1992Apr4.024415.27434@ra.msstate.edu>, wkl1@Ra.MsState.Edu
 (Wing-Keong Loke the consummate chronic prevaricator) writes:
> In article <3APR199212513741@zeus.tamu.edu> sjm5174@zeus.tamu.edu
 (Marmaduke) writes:
>>===============================================================================
> The EE dept. at Mississippi State is notorious for it's share of "shitty 
> teachers."  My friends have been complaining about these teachers all
> the time.  Sometimes they say they don't understand anything that's taught
> and study on their own and then go on to get A's.  These guys can really
> study and I admire them for that.
> 
> But I don't see why we have to put up with the lousy teachers.  We as
> consumers seem to have NO say at all in the product we get.  If we get
> shitty teachers, we can't complain to the better business bureau...
> 
> Syracuse University is making a major effort to promote good teaching
> according to The Chronicle of Higher Education.  I wonder if someone
> from Syracuse or who knows someone from Syracuse would care to comment
> on the improvements or atmosphere.

	Syracuse is not alone.  Here at Saint Peter's College, faculty are 
evaluated largely on teaching ability, based both on student evaluations and 
faculty observations.  Brooklyn College does this as well, but it is not as 
large a factor in deciding on whether to tenure or promote faculty.

	Universities as a rule are far more concerned about research than about 
teaching ability.  This is something that I learned as an undergraduate and 
graduate student at Columbia, and as a graduate student at the University of 
Minnesota.  There are several reasons:  universities want the grant dollars 
that research can bring in, professors want to do research (teaching is often 
secondary),etc.  In a college environment, teaching HAS to be primary (there 
are no grad students to use as slave labor), so it IS primary.

	The other problem is that both colleges and unviersities hire Ph.D.s 
and the Ph.D has no education course requirement.   You are trained to do 
research but not to teach.  This is the other side of the problem.

	Like any other consumer, a student has to shop carefully, but it still 
often is true that you get into an education what you put in.

					Robert Siegfried
					Computer Science Dept.
					Saint Peter's College
					Jersey City, NJ  07306
					siegfried_r@spcvxa.spc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: disc5e6@rosie.uh.edu (92S00302)
Subject: Re: fraternities
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 06:16:00 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.172812.1816@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, weird@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (john.t.erhardt) writes...
>In article <cdukYxq00WB9MxSnpE@andrew.cmu.edu> es2q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Erik Warren Selberg) writes:
>>
>>Now, as has been stated in every other message in this thread, there
>>will always be some fraternities comprised primarily of assholes, and
>>there will always be some fraternities comprised primarily of cool
>>people.  Therefore, DON'T GENERALIZE!  If you have a specific beef
>>with a specific chapter / local system, fine.  Maybe they are a bunch
>>of assholes.  However, please try not do make your argument universal,
>>as I'm getting quite annoyed at the fact that people are telling me
>>that I'm 5 times more likely than some schleppy off the street to
>>commit a rape, just because I live in a fraternity.
> 
>But you are X number of times more likely to rape.  I dont know
>much about statistics but they do seem to quatify those things in life
>that are easily generalized.  As long as the statistical analysis is done
>by a reputable firm, professor, or committee, we should have good reason
>to believe their findings are true.  And since history repeats itself,
>I conclude that as fraternity members have raped in the past, they will
>rape again.
> 
>We're not generalizing here, we're (at least I am) basing our conclusions
>on evidence.  This includes the the university of Illinois study which 
>I heard on a documentary.
> 
>John Erhardt
> 

  Gee so now every study is ALWAYS accrurate.  Come on ther have been many
studies based on flimsy theories and this seems to be one of them.
Numbers lie and statistics are worthless.  Give me something to prove(with
statistics) some time to collect data and I can prove anything.
If survey data is treated as fact then I guess that Dewey is a former President
and none of us would care about Truman winning in spite of the numbers saying 
Dewey was the winner in a landslide.  Since the numbers as translated by
your specific groups say fraternity members are 5 times more likely to
rape it must be true.  Reputable studies make mistakes all the time (after
all those running it are only human) and to blindly believe every study
or documentry is naieve.  Also, if all studies are fact how do 
reconcile occurences of conflicting studies?  After all how can 1 = 1 be
a fact if you've already read a study saying 1 = 2. Studies can be used 
to support an argument, but their limitations should be realized.
A theory such as the one in your documentary can never be fully proved
or disproved so it is merely a viewpoint not a fact.

_Ken
disc5e6@jetson.uh.edu
Alumni of
Phi Mu Delta, Mu Epsilon chapter at PSU.
From: 01sybok@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Sorority/Fraternity crap!
Date: 16 Apr 92 23:03:59 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1992Apr14.053250.25610@rice.edu>, rbutera@barred.owlnet.rice.edu (Rob Butera) writes:
> In article <1992Apr14.013304.22962@oz.plymouth.edu>, s_ritz@oz.plymouth.edu (Scott A. Ritz) writes:
>>      Does anyone know if any Greek organizations have restrictions on
>> the type of people their members can go out with? I hope to God that

Wow! That's pretty intense! I'm really sorry that happened to you. That 
kind of stuff dosen't happen here. I didn't know it happened at all. It really
sucks. Once again I'm really sorry. What sorority was she in? Why did they not
approve of the two of you (I'm sorry if I'm too personal here). Please email 
with the reply, I'd like to know. Once again, on behalf of nondiscriminatroy 
greeks everywhere, I'm sorry.
Mike
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: wasylik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Michael Wasylik)
Subject: Re: Greek? (was: Fraternities)
Organization: Ministry of Propaganda
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 07:41:21 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.205111.6912@panix.com> eck@panix.com (Mark Eckenwiler) writes:

>Why "Greek"?  Besides the names, what's the least bit Greek about the
>Greek system?

"Greek organizations"  is a short form of the phrase "Greek letter
organizations".  At least, that's the term I've heard used.  The letters
usually represent the motto of the organization or similar meaningful words in
Greek.  For example, Theta Chi's motto (which is not secret, as it was
published in our IFC Rush brochure)  is composed of the Greek words for
"Helping Hand", one of which starts with theta, the other with chi.  
As for my fraternity, it's secret.  (Shhhhh!)  But it's the same basic
prinicple of the letters representing a deeper meaning in another language.

Why Greek?  Most fraternities were founded in a time when classical education
demanded a knowledge of the language.  I know there have been Hebrew letter
organizations, for instance, but these never became as popular.

Mw
-- 
..............................................................................
Mike Wasylik.......................................wasylik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
......................First do it, then say it................................
Newsgroups: soc.college,talk.rape
From: schubach@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu (bernard william schubach)
Subject: Re: fraternities
Followup-To: schubach@cis.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 06:25:51 GMT

In article <ELM.92Apr14001848@terrorism.berkeley.edu> elm@cs.berkeley.edu writes:
>In article <1992Apr14.055358.20185@cis.ohio-state.edu> schubach@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu (bernard william schubach) writes:
>=>>		Frat Rapes	Non-Frat Rapes		Total
>=>>Reported	    34		      20		  54
>=>>Unreported	   101		     385		 486
>=>
>=>Total              135               405                 540
>=>Percent of Total   25%               75%                 
>=>
>=>>Percent Reported   25.2%	      4.9%		 10.0%
>
>You're missing Ted's point, which is the final line.  If fraternity
>members commit just 25% of the rapes on campus, then rapes by
>fraternity brothers must be reported 5 times as often as rapes by
>non-fraternity members.  Is this likely?

Actually, you are right. I did not read Ted's post as carefully as I should
have. I admit that it was late at night, and I missed part of Ted's
argument. I went back and reread the original post which I was 
responding to, and now his statistics make more sense. Of course,
they would have made more sense with the additional statistics
marked with "BWS>" above.

I do apologize for wasting bandwidth with my misunderstanding.
Perhaps, though, others also misunderstood his post. Perhaps not.

Just remember for the future, whenever you use statistics in an argument,
afterwards explain exactly how each statistic proves your point,
otherwise someone is going to question your reasoning.
I know this is getting away from soc.college but I don't know
where else to post it.
>
>No.  The argument states that more rapes are reported per fraternity
>member than per random student.  This can be caused by one of two
>things:
>1.  Fraternity members are more likely to commit rapes.
>2.  Women who are raped by fraternity members are more likely to report
>    them.
>
>It may also be a combination of the two.  Now, if you want to assert
                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>that (2) is the case, that's fine.  The numbers that Ted presented
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I was trying not to take sides. I was just saying that I was
confused by Ted's argument. (In my original post, I believe I said this).

Thanks for the clarification.

P.S. Just in case there is follow-up to this, please take it to
email with me. I don't see why there would be any followup, though.

Bernie. ::) A smiley wearing glasses.
From: ulysses@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (Nebulous Enigma)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: What the hell is going on out there?
Date: 10 Apr 92 20:09:18 GMT

Caption of a picture in the NY Times today sez that 35 black students at some 
college in michigan are quitting due to racial conflicts culminating in some
unspecified incident between two black students and white fratboys. There was
no story with the picture... can anybody fill me in?


--
-ulysses@mcl.univ.of.ca.for.spoiled.brats.edu 
The Man Facing Southeast
From: elm@cs.berkeley.edu (ethan miller)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Lighten up, have some fun...(frats)
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:41:56
Organization: utter chaos
Distribution: na
Reply-To: elm@cs.berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: terrorism.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: hts1@quads.uchicago.edu's message of Mon, 13 Apr 1992 05:35:15 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.053515.1337@midway.uchicago.edu> hts1@quads.uchicago.edu (Thomas H. Song) writes:
=>You really seem to be hung up on this issue.  Really, one great thing that 
=>everyone seems to be missing is the fact that Greek provide a great social
=>asset to University life.

Why is it, then, that there are lots of parties on campuses that have
no fraternities?  I'm not saying there are more than on fraternity
campuses.  However, it's clearly the case that non-fraternity schools
have no shortage of parties to attend.  And all without the help of
fraternities!

=>I really 
=>think that you should perhaps attend one of our parties and see how 
=>diverse the brotherhood and the people who attend the parties are.

I, for one, attended quite a few fraternity parties as an undergrad.
I saw how diverse the brotherhood and attendees were.  Phi Delta Theta
at Brown had a token (Asian) Indian, engineer, and good student all in
one person.  And as for the parties, well, at least the beer was free.
That's about the *only* good thing I can say about them.

=>I think that the pro-greek people have
=>shown the beneficial aspects of fraternities pretty well.  So I'd simply 
=>like you to come on by sometime this quarter and have a bit of fun along 
=>with the 400-600 other people that we draw at a typical party.

Parties are not the exclusive domain of fraternities.  I went to three
parties a week ago (hope my advisor isn't reading this :-), none of
which were in any way fraternity-related.  The attendance was nowhere
near 400-600 people for any of them, and I'm glad.  About all you can
do in a group that large is scream to be heard and drink yourself
silly.  I'd rather be able to talk in a somewhat normal voice, and
have the choice (not affected by peer pressure) of whether or not to
drink.  Besides, the houses and apartments that these parties are in
have clean floors which aren't covered with beer (no, that is *not* a
stereotype; every fraternity party I've been to featured a sticky
beer-covered floor).

=>By the number of posts you have, you must have some free time to come to 
=>a fraternity party.  Who know?  Maybe you too can have fun?  

Maybe we have plenty of fun at our own parties.  People who choose not
to join fraternities are quite capable of attending parties.  They can
find their own, rather than always having to put one on.  How many
non-fraternity parties does an average brother attend each semester?

ethan
--
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
ethan miller--cs grad student   | "Anybody not wearing 2000000 sunblock's
elm@cs.berkeley.edu             |  gonna have a REALLY bad day.  GET IT?"
#include <std/disclaimer.h>     |  -- Sarah Connor, _Terminator 2_
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: wu@ee.ualberta.ca (Angela Wu)
Subject: HELP!!!  ACCOMODATIONS NEEDED!
Keywords: accommodatoin
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 03:37:24 GMT

I need some help.

A friend of mine is desperately looking for a place to live in
Stillwater, Oklohoma.  He'd prefer that the rent is below
US$400 (is that reasonable?  I don't know), pets are allowed,
AND it's close to Oklahoma State University.

If you know of ANY place down there, please email me with the
information!

Thanks in advance.

wu@bode.ee.ualberta.ca
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.college.folklore
Subject: Re: Not About Fraternities
Date: 17 Apr 92 20:00:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: midway.1992Apr17.200012.11700
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Apr17.194344.25570@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> tgpt_ltd@creb.cc.rochester.edu (Tom Guptill) writes:
>In article <1992Apr16.062815.8361@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>Funny how I get flamed for talking about nothing but fraternities (as if
>>this was the only group I would post to), and then get flamed for *not*
>>posting about fraternities.
>
>	Does that tell you something?

That I'm not posting enough about fraternities?
-- 
Ted Frank          + "If you close your eyes, they all taste the same."
1307 E 60 St, #109 +  			-- General Mills representative
U o' C Law Skool   +  			   responding to complaint about new
Chi, IL 60637      +  			   radiocative-green Froot Loops (tm)
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: alasnik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Adam Lasnik)
Subject: Instead of whining about the fraternity discussion...
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 00:21:39 GMT



If you're one of those people who is complaining about the admittedly high
proportion of fraternity related postings, please consider the following:

--You should look into using one of the cool thread based newsreaders like NN.
It's easy use, and enables one to quickly read only topics of interest.  Of
course, I agree with the sentiment condemning the lazy mistitling of subject
headers, but that's another story.

--Any newsreader has "kill" capabilities.  No, I don't mean for "kill"ing Ted
Frank... he's already been abused enough.  Clearly, I'm referring to the
ability of your newsreaders to eliminate / skip over articles that are not of
interest to you.

--If you're frustrated that fraternity-related postings are overtaking
soc.college, tough.  Get off your butt and post other stuff.  As much as the
current fraternity debate interests me, I would love to see discussion of
intermural sports, dorm life, college relationships, student centers, etc.
Perhaps if we spent less time calling each other names, we'd have more time
for really THINKING about the issues being presented... AND more time to
discuss other, less inflammatory issues as well!

In case you're wondering, I'm a white male.  And I'm in a fraternity, albeit a
"professional" one.  And somehow, I've managed to appreciate the diversity of
arguments presented.  Ted has presented some worthwhile statistics and
arguments, and others have countered with some valid logical and emotional
responses.  As a "fraternity man," I'm not averse to hearing all sides of this
issue, and actually LEARNING as a result of it.  Though I've been unable to
actively participate in the debate due to time constraints, I've still quite
enjoyed reading all (or most) of the posts.

For those of you who want 'in' the discussion, stay in and try to be at least
somewhat civil.  Let's be careful in calling each other rapists, nerds,
assholes, etc.  For those who want out, get out, and quit bothering the rest
of us who value this open discussion.

--ADAM "KEYS" LASNIK at Northwestern University.
From: 01sybok@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Any Phi Delts in Netland?
Date: 12 Apr 92 15:48:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: ac.1992Apr12.124805.4990
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Hi! I noticed the posting from the Phi Kap, and I thought he had a good idea.
so... are there any Phi Delts out there? If so, I'd like to get in touch
with you, and discuss life in Phi Delt. My email address is 01sybokac.dal.ca
Looking forward to hearing from you (or any other Greeks who want to drop a line
and chat)!
Mike
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.college.folklore
From: disc5e6@rosie.uh.edu (92S00302)
Subject: Re: Not About Fraternities
Followup-To: soc.college,alt.college.folklore
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 06:40:00 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.011443.29900@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes...
>In article <1992Apr16.002949.12042@cs.rose-hulman.edu> erwinaw@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Anthony W Erwin) writes:
>>	Is this soc.fraternity or soc.college?  Currently, I have 36  
>>unread articles and 34 are about fraternities.  Come on!!
> 
>Actually, twelve are about fraternities, and 22 are messages like yours
>saying that nothing gets posted except messages complaining about
>messages like yours.  Quite postmodern in its self-referentialism, no?
> 
>So in the interests of group harmony, I'll introduce another thread --
>college guides.
> 

Group harmony? Are you sure it's not because you've run out of 'clever' unfound
ways to rip at groups which you have no knowledge of?  
Well duck and cover Ted, even if we had had any respect for you it would be shot
now. Run along now there must be some group for you to pick on out there 
who won't show you up to be the closed minded person you are.
(by the way Ted your weak opinionated arguments remind me of another loser
namely Rush Limbaugh, you two wouldnt happen to be related now would you)

Ken
Newsgroups: soc.college,talk.rape,soc.women
From: kpm4@jaguar.uofs.edu
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: leaving Boston for the summer?
Date: 7 Apr 92 19:08:46 GMT
Organization: University of Scranton

I think there may be a seperate group for requests like this, but I
couldn't find it, so please help if you can:

I'm on desperate need of a *relatively inexpensive* studio apartment to
sublet in BOSTON for the summer months, particularly in the Back Bay,
Beacon Hill, or Brookline areas.

Soc.college seemed like the place to ask seeing as how it's tough to swing
a dead cat in Boston without hitting a college student. [No offense to
cat-addicts intended]

So if you have a place to let for the summer, or if you know someone who
does, could you please E-MAIL me directly.

I'd really appreciate any info you can give me.  Thanks in advance!

Kevin Myers

kpm4@jaguar.uofs.edu
From: h2m@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (JA)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: More than a little fed up with Ted and the Greeks
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:23:23 EDT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Cornell University

In article <1992Apr13.071102.535@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>,
wasylik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Michael Wasylik) writes: 
> 
> What Mike said about women was not that all of them are crazed, murderous,
> adultery-tempting spwan of hell.  He said that one such woman may, by chance
> exist.  (Probably your mother, Ted.  Someone must have beat the hell out of
> you as a kid.)  
> 

Ahem......

			KNOCK IT OFF.  WE ARE SICK OF 
			HEARING YOU ALL CALL EACH OTHER
			NAMES AND SLAM EACH OTHER ON A 
			VERY PERSONAL LEVEL. TAKE IT 
			OUTSIDE BOYS.  YOU CAN COME BACK
			INSIDE WHEN YOU'VE GROWN UP.



Newsgroups: soc.college
From: disc5e6@jane.uh.edu (92S00302)
Subject: RE: fraternities
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 22:18:00 GMT

I have been reading this thread for a while and the only thing
I keep thinking is how much non-frternity people like to generalize
about "frat boys".
When I went to Penn State there were over 50 Fraternities with total membership
well over a 1000 people.  To think that all of these houses were alike is
ludicrous.  To think that all 1000++ members were alike is even more rediculous.
To these people ripping at frternities the fact that one person at one house
may have done something wrong means that all 1000++ people should be
punished.
  In addition not all frternities are all white or all black.  My house
Phi Mu Delta(or as we called it Mudhouse) was ethnically mixed.
When I was there of about 40 members there were three blacks(of which one was 
the chapter president) multiple hispanics, quite a few jews, some 
Irish Catholics, ect.. ect... In no way are all fraternities just white guys
with more hormones than brains.  And to say that they are is grossly unfair 
to all members of all fraternities everywhere.  Most evryone agrees that
basic stereotyping is unfair so why is it ok for you to stereotype us.

_Ken F.
disc5e6@jetson.uh.edu  


Newsgroups: soc.college