HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me about this TV show?
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 00:47:21 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <thaaang.721949805@cwis> <1992Nov17.013714.8532@spdcc.com>
  <1992Nov17.174635.9737@gordian.com>

Michael A. Thomas writes:
>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes: 
>>       Now what I'm waiting for is someone to make a good plaid hair
>> color...
> 
>  Geez Bob, plaid is out. Paisley perhaps. 

Hmmm.... Every time I see paisley, I can't help but think of
paramecium on LSD......

 
() All the world's a stage and most of us are desperately
() unrehearsed.
()      -- Sean O'Casey
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Effeminacy/Butchitude (was Re: discrimination at CMU)
Date: 19 Nov 92 02:24:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Nov19.022458.25965
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1eeb3fINNagb@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) 
writes:
>
>Honey, there ain't no way I'd be mistaken for straight.
>It's the tragedy of my life.  I've never had to come out
>to anyone (since I was 15, that is, and even then it wasn't
>news to anyone).  People take one look at me, or listen to
>my voice for a second or two, and they *KNOW* I'm gay.  Why
>might that be, do you think?

You certainly don't sound especially gay over the phone.  Maybe I've lived in 
Northern California too long - even the butchest of butch straight men in my 
neighborhood would come across as screaming queens in some parts of the country.

>> told they are acting too butch.  This person mentioned a production of
>> Torch Song Trilogy where the actor playing Arnold was told he was
>> being too butch.  I believe this example to be homophobic.
>
>What are you talking about?
>
>> It perpetuates the stereotype that gay men are effeminate. 
>
>Do you even know the play?  Are you aware that Arnold is an
>effeminate, swishy *drag* *queen*?  That's the character.
>Playing him too butch is WRONG, and pointing that out is
>not homophobic.

The first production I saw, at Theatre Rhinoceros in San Francisco, was one
of the first productions anywhere - I don't believe the last two acts had
even been written yet.  The actor who played Arnold, while not the butchest
of the butch, was also not as nelly as Harvey Fierstein.  Not all drag
queens are effeminate and swishy (although as the Pirate King says, "taht's
the general idea, yes").  

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics,co.general,talk.politics.misc,co.politics.amend2.discuss,boulder.general,csu.general
From: taylorje@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (TAYLOR JASON EDMOND)
Subject: Re: Don't boycott all of Colorado
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:53:30 GMT

   I read an article the other day in the Boulder Daily Camera that explained
how the NATIONAL family values people are moving (or have moved) their base
of operations to Colorado Springs, CO. What a coincidence that the sponsors
of amendment 2 are based in C Springs as well!
   So all those who are advocating a total boycott on Colorado, especially
having seen that Boulder, Denver, and just about every other major population
center voted it down, should consider that its people from OTHER parts of
the country that got the darn thing passed here, not the locals.

   Don't punish me for something someone else from somewhere else did.

-Jason

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me about this TV show?
Keywords: Are You Being Served?
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 06:26:03 GMT

rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

>>a lovely copper woop in the front. I was exstatic all night.

>	Hair mousse has electro-magnetic properties?????  Who'd've 
>thought it!

Yeah; the bruises are never going to go away.

>	Now what I'm waiting for is someone to make a good plaid hair
>color...

(For our dykey contingent, no doubt...)

Reminds me of the Warner Brothers cartoon that featured a
showoff chameleon that finally goes into hysterics when
given a plaid background.

>BBC
>thinking that John could do a great rainbow flag with his hair for GP day...

WOW!!!!!!! Now *THAT'S* a thought!!! Thanks, Bob!!!

--
John Dorrance        * Sexyfunky Motherfuckerdiva *   thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

		I bet if you threw that ass into the air
			It'd turn into sunshine!
From: lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Rap (Yes, you're still in soc.motss) (Re: Marky Mark
Date: 17 Nov 92 00:40:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: wam.1992Nov17.004035.914
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <manz.721820292@ee.ualberta.ca> manz@ee.ualberta.ca  
(Brett {Druid Queen} Manz) writes:

} I really have no opinion on his status as an `artist,' but I 
} find your comment about his co-opting a legitimate art form 
} rather unsupported.  Are you saying that rap is an artistic 
} domain exlusive to Black people?

Brett, there are probably like two people hear who know anything  
about rap.  Most Gay men don't like rap.  Well, let me clarify  
this.  Most Gay men don't like legitimate rap.  Marky Mark is  
not a legitimate rapper.  I don't think any White man can be a  
legitimate rapper.  But, there are also illegitimate rappers who  
are Black.  In order to understand this, you have to understand  
rap.  It's a Black thing and most Gay White men can't relate to  
it and don't understand it.

It sickens me to see White people like Marky Mark and Vanilla  
Ice "White-satize"* rap music just to make it more palatable for  
the White masses.  But, rappers like Hammer and Young MC have  
just helped them along.

Someone who I think is a legitimate White rapper is MC Serch  
(formerly of 3rd Bass).  

But rap remains intrinsically Black. You all could not handle  
the real stuff ...

Donald - It's time for some action!
From: ai888@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Flesher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What Gay Sex (was Re: How Many Homosexuals?)
Date: 15 Nov 1992 19:51:24 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ai888@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Flesher)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu



anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

Jess>  Part of the whole dilemma here, I guess, is that you are
Jess>  seeking precision of some certain kind, whereas I am
Jess>  deliberately avoiding that.

Yes, that's the problem. You're deliberately avoiding precision 
("of some certain kind" you say; of any kind, I'd say), and I 
cannot hope to understand you if you won't even try to be precise.

-----

Tom Flesher  (internet: ai888@cleveland.freenet.edu)

>>> Bigotry is merely cowardice in the face of complexity. <<<
From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What Gay Sex (was Re: How Many Homosexuals?)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 16:03:52 EDT
Reply-To: ailanth!ailsa@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Organization: Ailanthus Project

Minotaur@cup.portal.com (A Frank Swilling) writes:

> Eh?  Didn't I just say it ain't necessarily so?  What, you
> assumed those boys were fisting each other?  Misogynist pig,
> their leather-clad mistresses were making them *wish* they
> only had a fat faggot weenie up their butts.  Yes indeed, it's
> hard to be anything *but* passive when your mistress has you
> hog-tied over an English saddle ass to the ceiling, mirrors
> angled so that you can see her slathering her spanking hand
> with K-Y.  If only you didn't have that gag in your mouth,
> you'd plead with her to at least trim an inch or two off her
> nails; but it's probably just as well, because knowing what
> she thinks of cowardice, she'd be more likely to *sharpen*
> them if she saw the fear in your eyes.  *Gay* sex?  Ha!  Next
> time someone calls you up for a sex survey, you'll have an
> earful to tell them about how UNgay sex can be.
>
eeek!  and here is just posted about having been an anal sex top.

well folks, it wasn't QUITE like this...  *grin*
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe....

                                             -ailsa

p.s. you DO know, back to seriousness mode, that female hands also fit
quite nicely into anuses (ani?), and that male hands can sometimes fit
quite nicely into vaninae, ergo fisting is NOT "gay sex" by any stretch
of the imagination...

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                    ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
                                                        ________
I don't care what consequence it brings,        Silence \      / Action
I have been a fool for lesser things.              =     \    /    =
                                                 Death    \  /    Life
                                                           \/


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: JEFF Stryker where are you? (Re: JEFF Gallagher where are you?)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 03:04:45 GMT

Please email me!!!

--
John Dorrance        * Sexyfunky Motherfuckerdiva *   thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

		I bet if you threw that ass into the air
			It'd turn into sunshine!
Newsgroups: soc.motss,rec.pets.cats
From: jessica@wrs.com (Jessica Hart)
Subject: Neutering Question
Summary:  Thanks to all.
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 21:46:37 GMT


Thanks to everyone who replied to my question about whether the vet should
keep my male cat overnight after neutering.

The vet is not padding the bill, as some suggested. The cost is $35
including the overnight stay.

Actually, Hobbes is at the vet right now having his operation. Wish us luck!

I will probably leave him overnight, but I am also inclined to storm in there
and insist on taking him home. He is very easygoing so all this is probably
harder on me than him. The vet explained that they wanted to "keep him quiet"
(no jumping on high furniture, scuffles with my other cats, etc.) after the
operation. That is the reason they gave. Also, the vet will check him again
in the morning to make sure everything is going OK.

The only drawback will be the other, stressed-out cats that will probably
be howling away back there all night. If only all cats were as secure as
Hobbes! They could get chummy and set up a bridge game or something sensible.



Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 22:32:51 GMT

In article <1eb9kqINNcrj@mizar.usc.edu>, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> In article <1992Nov17.160658.29988@osf.org> 
> coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
> > This is extremely interesting. Either I missed something, or you've
> > been holding out on us, Arne...
> 
> Well, I did *hint* that I know about more than was posted 
> about this, and from the other side.  (I did say that I've 
> been connected tangentially to the UCLA theater department 
> for the last 15 years and that I know a former CMU faculty 
> member (who's now on the UCLA faculty, shaking up UCLA's
> acting program the way he shook up CMU's 10 years ago).)

Well, I guess I missed the reference to the CMU faculty member. I
understood the reference to the UCLA theater dept. to be intended
to indicate some knowledgeability about drama programs in general.
 
> > If you actually knew that the facts were otherwise, or incomplete as
> > presented, it might have saved a lot of mostly useless argument if you
> > had said so much earlier.
> 
> Are you chiding me, Mr. Coren?  Well!  I was treading on
> eggshells throughout the argument, particularly as I could
> smell "I'm gonna sue!" in the air (even though the statute
> of limitations has run out).

Chiding? Me? Well, maybe a bit. I did realize, as I typed the above,
that you might not be able to say anything very specific about what
you did know or believe about the particular case, for exactly this
sort of reason.

> I still am surprised that 
> people seem to think a highly specialized, professionally-
> oriented college acting program is like a bachelor's degree
> program in chemistry, or is like acting in the real world.
> CMU's program is like the (infamous) Iowa writing program --
> the people who come out of it are extremely polished and
> employable, and they're just like everyone else who's come
> out of the program.  Both seek to rub the rough edges off
> students, and it is those rough edges that I, for one, am
> interested in.

I think I see now where a lot of the rancor came from in this
discussion. I certainly missed the nuance that, in describing how
CMU's acting program functions, you were not necessarily agreeing that
that was how such a program *should* function. (Actually, upon
rereading the above, I'm still not sure whether you think so or not.)
It was easy enough to read your side as defending the right (in a
moral sense) of CMU to discriminate against a future Franklin
Pangborn. If you're surprised that this got people's backs up, then
you're more easily surprised than I would have expected.
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi,alt.homosexual
From: ted9e@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Thomas Edward Doyle)
Subject: Re: Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual Relatives?
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:09:25 GMT

I have a friend who is gay, and so is his younger brother -- same
mother, different father.  They were raised together, but neither was
out to the other, until they both came out in close succession as
yound adults. 
Crow
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Babs calls fro Colorado Boycott
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 04:21:22 GMT

First I thought this meant Babs bunny. Then I thought it was kind
of odd for a cartoon character to take a political stance, so I
thought maybe Barbara Bush. Then I wised up and decided it had to
be Babs Bunny.

John, who forgot about *that* Babs (And get the *hell* away from
my queercard! I'm just 2nd generation queer, is all. Different
icons, you know.)

--
John Dorrance        * Sexyfunky Motherfuckerdiva *   thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

		I bet if you threw that ass into the air
			It'd turn into sunshine!
From: AH.PBL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Thugsy twins to run against each other!
Date: 17 Nov 1992 10:16:52 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <RHAYDEN.92Nov14150853@hqsun2.oracle.com>,
rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden) writes:
>In article <1dud83INNf1e@morrow.stanford.edu> AH.PBL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark) writes:
>
>     I don't know where he's going to get the money to run.  He did so
>   badly in the republiKKKan primaries this year.  At first, I laughed at
>   the thought of him even coming close to winning a US Senate seat.  But
>   then I remembered how close Bruce ("I'm going to Washington to cut my
>   pay and drive myself around town in a Yugo") Herschonsohn came to winning.
>   If Dannemeyer is able to hide his real agenda, like Herschonsohn did, then
>   he might have a chance.
>
>I don't know, I thought Herschonsohn was amazingly candid.  He said he
>wanted to get rid of the dept of education, believes the school
>breakfast program is a plot to destroy the family, wants MORE defense
>spending, believes anyone should be able to carry an uzi anywhere, etc
>etc etc....
>
>How much more candid could he be about his real agenda?

  These were things that the Boxer campaign brought to
the attention of the voter.  Herschie didn't advertise
these ideas himself.  He spent his campaign money telling
us that he would run his own elevator in the Senate and
pay for his own parking at the airport.  Of course, he was
spending $5000.00 for each 30 second TV commercial to say this...

  -- Mark
From: jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Men Not Getting It (was Re: Twice Fucked)
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:33:20 GMT
Organization: Militant Homosexual Lobby, Gay Lifestyles, Inc.


Jess Anderson (anderson@macc.wisc.edu) wrote:
 
> Mara Chibnik (mara@panix.com) writes:
> 
> > P.S. Powledge (psp@cbnewsh.cb.att.com):
> 
> >>what *really* pisses me off is to see this women-hating
> >>drivel posted here time and time again [...]I mean by men
> >>who are claiming to be part of this community.
> 
> >Yup.  It's a little hard to explain if you don't get it in
> >the first place.
> 
> *So* much seems to rest on men not "getting it," doesn't it?
> I've always been somewhat at a loss to understand to
> understand why more men, indeed all men, don't get it.
> 
> ....  I mean, it's not like they'd have to be rocket scientists 
> or anything too taxing.

Ahem.  Since we've discussed the 'rocket
scientist' thing before,  I won't harp on it
at the moment....

Part of not getting it, I suspect, is not
feeling like a participant in oppression.  A
phrase like the one in question could come up
in several different ways, from different types
of people.  For instance, there's the outright
mysoginist, who goes out of his way to use
anti-woman epithets whenever possible.  These
people will never 'get it', because they know
what's to be gotten and they don't want it.

We might also find it used by a person who uses
it without much thought at all, because it's
there, it sounds about right, and it was always
okay *before*.  Point out to this person the
mysoginistic character of the phrase, and you
get strong denial: it wasn't mysoginistic
because *I'm* not a mysoginist.  This person
wasn't feeling anti-woman at the time, is
surprised by the charge, and begins renouncing
the PC Police.  Indeed it's true that this
person doesn't get it, but could.

The same sort of thing surrounded the 'tinkerbell'
incident [an epithet, by the way, frequently
applied to me in my youth].

Despite the putatively neutral use of the
epithets by the people in question, both phrases
nevertheless remain just that: an epithet, a
term of derision, a verbal powerplay.  This
was where they originated, they retain their
currency, and by insisting on continuing to
use them the writer acquiesces in the harassment
they represent, regardless of intentions.

Having this pointed out needn't be seen as a
cease and desist order enforced by the PC
police, but instead as assistance in avoiding
being an accessory after the fact.

--jns
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Organization: insert anything here
Distribution: na,uk
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 17:22:53 GMT

omt1@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) >writes:
>>richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel) >writes:

>>I think it's possible to read George's statement as being without any
>>racist intent, nor do I think that George has a racist hair on his
>>body.  This what-his-name is simply a media creation exploiting a
>>legitimate art for by co-opting it for the white masses, or in other
>>words, doing just what he used to do as a member of NKOTB. 
>
>For the nth time, Marky Mark was never a member of NKOTB. In this
>month's issue of _The Face_ (a British periodical, but available
>in some parts of the US), he gives a revealing (pardon a *smirk*)
>interview about just these issues. Here are some snippets:


>"Marky Mark hasn't seen the Gap ads yet [nor have I...anyone?],
>but if he'd been near Hyde Park in London last August, he might
>have wondered why the biggest cheer on the Lesbian and Gay Pride
>march was for a passing double decker bus.

>"'That's dope, man! I particularly like pussy, but everybody's

	Ooooh - so BUTCH - I wonder how womyn feel about this
categorization...

>got their sexual preference. A lot of deep people [rappers] don't
>feel it's God's will, but that doesn't bother me and people
>really do have the right to do what they want. 

>And if they're
>into me, then cool, as long as they don't try to offend me and
>are into my music. 

	Translation - I support queers if they give my $$$.  Oh, joy.

>I know a lot of gay people and I respect them,
>and you don't have to worry about getting stuck up by a gay dude.
>Yo, if you're gay you're in the house, just don't do that shit
>around me! Don't try to fuck me!...

	THIS is *SUPPORT*?

>I respect people, everybody 
>who's doing their own thing, as long as they're not harming
>anybody else doing it."

	Yeah, right, Marky.   BIG E_SWOON!  Anything you say.

	Someday, SOMEDAY we might grow up enough to choose
our idols with our heads instead of our balls.  That will
make the choice doubly-sweet if said choice is also *HOT* by our
own "standards of objectifyable excellence".

BBC

"I think I'm gonna puke." --- Steve Dyer
From: bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Amendment 2 passes
Date: 13 Nov 92 14:10:59 GMT
Organization: Open Communications Forum

tom@flood.com (Tom Chatt) writes:

>Do you feel more welcome in Utah? Or were you thinking of
>going to Mt. Bachelor in Oregon to celebrate the defeat of
>the odious Prop 9? Speaking from ignorance about the local
>specifics, I might speculate that since 9 was defeated in
>oregon by a nice, but not a huge, margin (57%-43%, I think),
>and since the lion's share of the "No on 9" votes came from
>the Portland area, it could well have been approved within
>localities such as Bend. I'd certainly be willing to put up
>good money that Aspen voted more "welcomingly of the gay
>community" than did Bend.

The figures I've got say Measure 9 lost in Deschutes Co. (Bend) 
by 56% to 43%, a slightly lower margin than in the rest of the state.
If you want to patronize someplace whose politics are better than the 
skiing, try Timberline Lodge on Mt. Hood, who placed several huge 
anti-9 ads in the Oregonian.
-- 
Brent Capps                          | I could love anything on earth 
bcapps@agora.rain.com (gay stuff)    | that appeared to wish it.
bcapps@atlastele.com (telecom stuff) |                 -- Lord Byron
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bob@dolores.Stanford.EDU (Bob Lodenkamper)
Subject: Ugly
Organization: Computer Systems Laboratory, Stanford University
	<Nov.12.11.08.00.1992.3178@math.rutgers.edu>
	<1992Nov12.205747.28234@ads.com> <1992Nov13.151002.9454@spdcc.com>
	<69511@cup.portal.com> <74296@apple.apple.COM> <thaaang.721886097@cwis>
	<69666@cup.portal.com>
Date: 17 Nov 92 03:30:19

In article <69666@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton 
Madison) writes: 

   Try looking at it from the perspective of a Bear who's sick and
   tired of being "invisible" in the mainstream gay media -- much
   as many gay people are tired of being nonexistent in the
   mainstream media of this country.

Well, it is also true that you personally account for a significant
fraction of the really negative aesthetic judgements posted to
soc.motss, and you have done so consistently for quite some time.

Saying Marky Mark is an "ugly little fuck" doesn't affirm anything
except your contempt for Marky Mark and those who look like him.

If the slobbering over Marky Mark got on your nerves there were any
number of things you could have done in response, ranging from
ignoring it to lampooning the slobberers, that would have been quite a
bit less offensive (and infinitely more to the point) than getting up
on your soapbox again and proudly announcing your contempt for those
who are "ugly" in your eyes.

- Bob