From: mjb@doc.ic.ac.uk (Matthew J Brown)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: New Age Androgynous Bisexuals...
Date: 8 Nov 92 21:45:41
Organization: Department Of Computing, Imperial College, London.
	<1992Nov6.172429.10416@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> <BxBLKn.1y6@ibmpcug.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: oak24.doc.ic.ac.uk
In-reply-to: gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk's message of Sat, 7 Nov 1992 00:33:58 GMT

In article <BxBLKn.1y6@ibmpcug.co.uk> gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
>In article <1992Nov6.172429.10416@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> dwells@lonestar.utsa.edu (Darren . Wells) writes:
>>He is.  It's possible to actually  "*believe* it" and still be sensible.
>>In fact, accepting that someone with a very different belief system than
>>our own can be sensible is important.  At least I think it should be, in
>>this newsgroup.  Surely you can see a connection here . . .
>
>No, that is *precisely* the sort of woolly PC thinking that has totally
>disenchanted me with this group.  As Heinlein had Lazarus Long say
>in one of his notebooks, 'if you meet someone who professes to be an
>intellectual, ask them what they think of astrology'.  That sort of
>irrational claptrap should be dismissed out of hand (along with religion
>of any sort, but hey - one flame war at a time is enough no?)

<Sigh> Heinlein. (Talk about irrational claptrap ... but as Graham
says, one flamewar at a time is enough ... besides, I'll freely admit
to never having been able to stand enough Heinlein to be able to flame
him effectively ...)

Anyway, I get sick of right-wingers invoking the letters 'PC' every
time someone says something they disagree with, or censures them in
any way. [Quite apart, of course, from the fact that the letters are
associated in my mind with the horrible descendants of an I*M
product]. If 'PC' from a right-winger ever meant anything more than
'socialist' it does so no longer.

>I am sick of being told that because I'm a member of an 'oppressed group'
>that I should automatically side with all sorts of people with whom i
>have nothing in common.  I make my mind up about 'PC' issues on
>each case, on its merits, not simply follow the party line.  I say
>again, I have no time whatsoever for people who have the intelligence
>to know better, who indulge in blatantly irrational beliefs like
>dowsing maps with pendulums, predicting the future with chicken guts,
>or tarot cards, or believing that the dead will rise from the grave on
>the day of judgement.

Firstly, there is no such thing as a bisexual, or soc.bi, `Party
Line'. The day there is, is the day I'm leaving this group. A number
of prolific posters do hold 'socialist' beliefs; however, I see people
disagreeing with them without being flamed into the ground. If
socialist opinions seem more prevalent than those of other political
positions, all this can possibly mean is that socialists are more
likely to be wasters with too much time on their hands.

Secondly, do you refuse to associate with people who hold different
beliefs than your own? If that is the case, then your circle of
friends must be smaller, more insular, less varied and less
self-critical than I could personally cope with.

Personally, just about all I ask of people I associate with is to
respect my right to hold the beliefs I do; this is not the same as
agreeing with me. If this is the case, then I extend the same courtesy
to them. 

I also have insufficient belief that there is 'truth', and more
importantly, I have insufficient belief in my ability to know or see
truth. In other words, I'm not sure I'm right; and therefore I'm not
inclined to denounce others as wrong.

>I must say, I'm really impressed by the way this group has (ahem) bent
>over backwards to indulge all sorts of bigots and loudmouths, but as
>soon as one of your own dares to criticise you on the grounds of 'PC',
                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is [part of] why. 'PC' means just about nothing except that you
disagree with someone's politics.

>it's daggers drawn and stabs in the back.  Sheesh.  Just because I
>made an innofensive joke at Ciaran's expense that I thought he would
>be able to take against himself. I've said it before, I'll say it
>again.  This group has lost its sense of humour and sense of
>proportion.

Ah - humour is defined as 'things that Graham Toal finds funny'.
Strangely enough, some people on this group seem to disagree with this
definition, and are exercising their right to refuse to laugh.

Strangely enough, the only person I've really noticed who's lost their
sense of humour [let alone proportion] round here is yourself; being
obnoxious, which you've slipped into recently, is something I
definitely *don't* find that amusing.


-Morven

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