From: jjchew@math.toronto.edu (John J. Chew III)
Subject: Re: "Poster people" are NP-annoying
Organization: The Poslfit Committee
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 19:45:21 GMT

In article <92Nov6.194744est.103@orasis.vis.toronto.edu> mann@vis.toronto.edu 
  (Richard Anthony Mann) writes:

> Have any of you people been bothered by automated telephone
> solicitations from the "Poster people"?  They call offering a job if
> you call their 976 number (which charges $10 to your phone bill).

Only a dozen or so times in the past three months.  For the record,
the number in question is 976-8324.

> At the beginning of the message they tell a number (probably required
> by law) quickly.

Yes.  Current legislation requires that messages sent by automatic
diallers of this sort include a telephone number that you can call to
reach either a human being or an answering machine.  In the latter case,
if you leave a message asking to talk to a human being, they must call
you back within 24 hours.  That number, btw, is 665-6614.

> I called this, and asked to be disconnected from
> their list, but was called again a month later.

I have done this three times, most recently last Tuesday.

> Since I asked to be
> removed from the list, could be charged with harassing calls? Any
> suggestions who to complain to?

The first step is to call your Bell Customer Services Centre.  If you
are a residential customer in Metro Toronto, the number is 350-BELL.
Look for it at the beginning of your White Pages directory.  Explain
the situation to the Bell person and ask what action you can take.

Here are some of the things I have been told.  

- Bell Canada logs many complaints about this specific automatic dialler,
  sometimes dozens each day.  
- If they receive enough complaints, they may take action.  Apparently,
  they haven't yet.
- If you persist, they will tell you that you can call 665-6614 to have 
  your name removed from a list.  If you tell them that you have tried
  that several times already without success, then they will refer you
  to the Ministry of Consumer and Commercial Relations' general inquiry
  number (326-8555).
- Said ministry will refer you to the Canadian Direct Marketing Association
  (391-2362), to which I believe the person in question does not belong,
  and to the CRTC (973-2782).

I would like to mention in passing that everyone that I have spoken to
about this matter has been exceedingly courteous and sympathetic, if
in the end not terribly helpful.

It was in talking to a very helpful gentleman at the CRTC (whose name
I will pass on by e-mail if asked) that I learned the most about the
situation and why it is that there isn't much I can do.  

Firstly, he told me the name of the person behind all these messages:
Marvin Fine (possibly Fein - I didn't ask how it was spelled), who
runs a company called DFD Telecommunications.  When he mentioned
that, I recalled that I had seen this person mentioned one night
on CityPulse News, when they interviewed him to investigate the
complaints of a few of his irate callees.  It apparently took their
reporter a while to find Mr. Fine, as he has moved his offices
several times in the past year, leaving behind unpaid rent and
other bills each time.  The interview itself was quite brief.  Mr.
Fine was insistent that he was breaking no laws, and that was that.

The gentleman at the CRTC also told me that there was nothing at all
that I could do about the weekly faxes I have been getting from Mr. 
Fine (probably copies of the posters that Richard Mann mentions), as
the current legislation deals only with automatic r{iallers that send
vocal messages, and not faxes.  He said further that there is proposed
federal legislation to close this loophole, but that it has just passed
first reading and will take some time yet before it becomes law.  The
bill in question is known as Bill C-62.

When I asked what I could do about the messages in the mean time, I
was told: nothing unless Mr. Fine breaks a rule, which he has so far
been very careful not to do.  The rules about automatic diallers cover
the times of day when they are allowed to operate (any time except 
late at night and Sunday mornings), but there is nothing to keep Fine
from waking me up with a fax at 05:00, as he has done once so far.
He would be in trouble if I could prove that he had not tried to call
me within 24 hours of my leaving a message on his machine, but I am
unfortunately unable to stay by my phone for 24 hours.  And so on.

So that's where I am with this problem myself.  I'm open to suggestions
as to further avenues of complaint.  I have considered getting Caller ID,
but do not yet think it worth the cost.

John

-- 
john j. chew, iii / department of mathematics / university of toronto
poslfit@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca / poslfit@utorgpu.bitnet / jjchew@math.toronto.edu