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Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 09:55:54 -0400
From:         "DOUGL, APPARENTLY." <STCHRI@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA>
Subject:      Dougl, the Southern Cross

My name, Jean.....

It combines several stories. While in the field my supervisor sent me a
paper by an anthropolgist we both admired, noting that in the table of
contents he was listed as Mick Taussig, where in the past he had been
Michael Taussig. Sensing a new trend toward informality, Bill suggested
I drop the second S from my name and thenn reconsidering, suggested I lose
my "ass" altogether in Samoa.

Hence Dougl.


Southern Cross is ironic, post-modern, manipulation. The Southern Cross is
of course the constellation familiar to all South Pacificists as the thing
which dominates the night time sky. It is disorienting because the stars
are no longer where the need to be, where they have always been. It is
one of my icons which holds me suspended and decentred over the work that
I do.

But Cross has other emblematics - cranky, angry, purturbed, unsettled.

And Southern comments on a previous existence, as the Gnome of the North,
a real cranky bugger who never gave Jean a moments rest when she was
Venusian and trying to be heard.


So it is a long name......



Dougl,           *
The           .
Southern       *   *
Cross            *

AKA

  <-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
  <->                        <->
  <-> Douglass St.Christian  <->        ______
  <-> Anthropology           <->        \    / This Tribe can
  <-> McMaster               <->         \  /  speak
  <-> Canada                 <->          \/   for itself
  <->                        <->
  <-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
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Date:         Sun, 20 Dec 1992 20:07:00 +0200
From:         TOMY_ACE@EGAUCACS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Revisit the mission of Xcult but first...

Adam Karp wrote:

>..........................................................................
>To all: Taoists, Buddhists, Confucianists, Zens, Jews, Christians, Muslims,
>Atheists, Agnostics, Zoroastrianists, Jainists, Spiritualists, Supernatural-
>ists,Materialists, Existentialists, Pragmatists, and all decent, loving,
>(no) God(s) fearing/respecting people who have open minds and realize that
>there are many ways to PERFECTION, NIRVANA, HEAVEN, and reunion with
>ultimate LOVE, then  HAPPY days!!!

I've been going through the discussions in the list in the last few days
about the subject of GOD and religions and I think that I could say nothing
but totally agree with Adam's above quoted statement.

Hatem <TOMY_ACE@EGAUCACS>
Cairo - Egypt
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Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 07:55:27 -0400
From:         "DOUGL, APPARENTLY." <STCHRI@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA>

Jean:

I have no e.e.cummings for this season butm instead proffer
a lovely lyric by James Merrill:

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=



VISION OF A GARDEN

One winter morning as a child
Upon a windowpane's thin frost I drew
Forehead and eyes and mouth the clear and mild
Features of nobody I knew.

And then abstracted looking through
This or that wet transparent line
Beyond beheld a winter garden so
Heavy with snow its hedge of pine.

And sun so brilliant on the snow
I breathed my pleasure out onto the chill pane
Only to see its angel fade in mist.
I was a child, I did not know.

That what I longed for would resist
Neither what cold lines should my finger trace
On colder grounds before I found anew
In yours the features of that face.

Whose words, whose looks alone undo
Such frosts I lay me down in love in fear
At how they melt become a blossoming pear
Joy outstretched in your bodies place.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

It is a new year and and a new day and it is always a good
and timely thing to look on love.........



Dougl,           *
The           .
Southern       *   *
Cross            *

AKA

  <-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
  <->                        <->
  <-> Douglass St.Christian  <->        ______
  <-> Anthropology           <->        \    / This Tribe can
  <-> McMaster               <->         \  /  speak
  <-> Canada                 <->          \/   for itself
  <->                        <->
  <-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
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Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 07:46:01 -0400
From:         "DOUGL, APPARENTLY." <STCHRI@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA>
Subject:      Re: Dougl, the Southern Cross

Jean:

You need not worry, the Gnome of old is still the Doogl of now [ Doogl sounds
very much like a new desert - Doogls with fresh strawberries and mascarpone
cream]

Tongue firmly in cheek, cranky but never crooked.


Dougl,           *
The           .
Southern       *   *
Cross            *

AKA

  <-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
  <->                        <->
  <-> Douglass St.Christian  <->        ______
  <-> Anthropology           <->        \    / This Tribe can
  <-> McMaster               <->         \  /  speak
  <-> Canada                 <->          \/   for itself
  <->                        <->
  <-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
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Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 08:45:00 EST
From:         frank@UAMONT.EDU

SET NOMAIL (frank@uamont.edu)
ted frank
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Date:         Sun, 3 Jan 1993 19:34:17 -0500
From:         x92reza@GW.WMICH.EDU

Zahir,

      Mr Zahir you are contradicting your self. You said " There can be many
paths to the same destination", First of all you did not mentioned which
 destination(God ?). To reach God you have to chose one path this path in common
 terms is called religion.

To Readers of x-culture:

     There is one True Religion Islam (Submission to God's will), this was the
 religion of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. If any body can prove me that
Judaism and Christianity according to their Bible. I will become Jew or
 Christian( As you Like !). The People who think that Muhammad copied Quran From
 Judeo-
christian scriptures, it is amazing that Muhammad did not copy one form 10
 casesof incest or many other cases of Rape and Cardinal sin (Cardinal sins are
 commonin all of Three of mentioned religion) and other nude stuff(
 pronography??)
For example Song of Solomons(My Breasts are Like Tower?????).


-Regards
 Ovais.
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Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 11:40:15 -0400
From:         "DOUGL, APPARENTLY." <STCHRI@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA>
Subject:      Re: Militantly tolerant

-----She/He/They Said ----
->
->>Does anyone have any ideas what qualities of this list make these sorts
->>of discussions so difficult????
->
->
->I believe that sometimes we take a little cultural sensitivity too far.  Then
->we end up too touchy, too pontificating, too self-righteous, and down-right
->mean.  We claim that we aspire to tolerance, and in so doing, we become very
->willing to point out the apparent intolerance of others.  We basically become
->very prejudice against our perception of prejudiced people.  ---  IMO
->
->LJG


I think you are right. But what I wonder is why on this list this seems
more of a problem thanit is on other lists where this sort of discussion is
quite common.

We do take cultural sensitivity seriously here and are perhaps to quick
to get anger at what appears to us to be insensitivity or prejudice.

This is an odd list because so many of the members are transient, there is
always a new batch of participants each year. Perhaps it is a question of
not knowing each other very well at all....


This is often one of the most interesting lists because the mix of people
is so diverse. But at the same time, we need to be more cautious about
how we speak to avoid offending because on a list as diverse as this we can
never be completely sure of who is participating....


We keep trying because, in the end, we really do want to learn something
from this exchange...


Dougl,           *
The           .
Southern       *   *
Cross            *

AKA

  <-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
  <->                        <->
  <-> Douglass St.Christian  <->        ______
  <-> Anthropology           <->        \    / This Tribe can
  <-> McMaster               <->         \  /  speak
  <-> Canada                 <->          \/   for itself
  <->                        <->
  <-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
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Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 10:20:23 -0700
From:         Zhao Yong <zyong@LINFIELD.EDU>
Subject:      See you next year!

Thank you for all your wonderful postings and patient listening (reading),
which made me well at home. I'm leaving for a few weeks, so I am setting
top no-mail.

Happy holidays and I will see you next year!

Zhao Yong---Shy and smiling
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Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 18:32:00 CDT
From:         PALMERI@OSHKOSHW.BITNET
Subject:      RE:the environmental problem

In my opinion, poverty is at the root of the population
problem.  If I am destined to be poor my whole life, I
need children to support me in my older years.   The
middle and upper classes in the advanced industrialized
counies can choose to be childless because, for the
most part, they don't _need_ children for their own
personal survival.

This is why, it seems to me, introducing birth control
programs into the third world is pointless unless the
poverty problem is addressed.  Such programs probably are
of use to the elites in those countries, who are in a
similar position to those in the "first world," but are
worthless to the poor who use large family size as a
defense against poverty.

--Tony

Tony Palmeri - Communication Department, Univ. Wis. at Oshkosh
palmeri@oshkoshw
palmeri@oshkosh.wisc.edu
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Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 11:30:53 GMT
From:         Gerry Callaghan <eeigcn@EEIUC.ERICSSON.SE>
Subject:      Re: Militantly tolerant

Peace, Brothers and Sisters all,

I'd like to support Michael's call for a truce. The discussion has got to
the stage of confirming prejudices on both sides. When this happens its
better to end it.

Ireland does not have a great reputation for religious tolerance, to put it
at its mildest! However, I would like to tell a story from my family history.

In 1911 the people of Gurteen, County Sligo decided to build themselves
a parochial hall. At that time the area was about 90% Catholic and 10%
Protestant. People worked together but did not go to the same schools or
socialise together. The political developments that led to Independence
were also causing strains on Protestant - Catholic relations at the time.

The morning after the meeting that decided to build the hall, my maternal
grandfather was bringing the first load of stones in his horse cart to the site
of the hall. This was something to be proud of and to tell stories about for
years.

Coming after him on the road was a Protestant neighbour, also bringing a load
of stones to the hall. My grandfather stopped his horse and waited until
the neighbour passed him out so that it could be said that a Protestant
brought the first load of stones to build the hall.

This story was told many times, both inside and outside the family, as
an example of how people should live together in spite of their differences.
It's not a bad example either!

Best wishes,
Gerry
eeigcn@eeiuc.ericsson.se
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Date:         Sat, 2 Jan 1993 11:58:22 -0600
From:         CHELAGOI <CHOWNING@ACUVAX.ACU.EDU>
Subject:      RE:the environmental problem

Tony,
Part of the problem with poverty around the world is the lack of concern
by the North with the poverty.  Yes, we will help in Somalia and other
drastic situation, sometimes with questionable motives and strategy, but
we are not willing to make the lifestyle changes necessary to truely
aid the endemically poverty stricken areas of the world.

--- Chelagoi
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Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 11:26:59 EST
From:         Mary Ellen Ugactz-Fernandez <ugactz@CUNIXF.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Christmas (Holiday:-)) Greetings

Merry christams,, happy holidays.. merry solstice to one and all..

/Emmy
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Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 10:38:41 -0400
From:         "DOUGL, APPARENTLY." <STCHRI@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA>
Subject:      Re: Militantly tolerant

i too am glad the religious flamewar has ended.

But I have a question for list members which might help us grasp the nature
of our relationship on this, as Ruth put it, relatively anonymous list.


Religious and political discussions on this list seem always to end in
namecalling and baiting, while the same discussions on other lists go
relatively smoothly.

Does anyone have any ideas what qualities of this list make these sorts
of discussions so difficult????


Dougl,           *
The           .
Southern       *   *
Cross            *

AKA

  <-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
  <->                        <->
  <-> Douglass St.Christian  <->        ______
  <-> Anthropology           <->        \    / This Tribe can
  <-> McMaster               <->         \  /  speak
  <-> Canada                 <->          \/   for itself
  <->                        <->
  <-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
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Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 01:11:40 CDT
From:         jean <SOCW9V@UHUPVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Militantly tolerant
              30 Dec 1992 08:27:00 MST from <TSLGILMORE@CC.WEBER.EDU>

On Wed, 30 Dec 1992 08:27:00 MST Lisa J. Gilmore said:
>>Dougl, i have observed the same kind of altercations on other lists.
>>The lists that become "difficult" are those in which the personal and
>>the intellectual become merged.  as i have observed it, the more
>>personal the discussion, the more likely are people's emotions to be
>>involved, the more likely the discussion to become "difficult."
>
>The traffic on addict-l is very slow because of this.   IMO

slow because it is too personal? or slow because people don't dare
become personal?
>
>>i think where i am leading is that we lack an emotional vocabulary that
>>is socially sanctioned in these kinds of forums, and lacking such a
>>vocabulary, the discussions that hook the personal in us are doomed to
>>failure, because what is really going on (the emotional hook/
>>personal, etc.) is not supposed to be appropriate to discuss--
>>except, of course, for anger.
>
>Good point Jean.  Let's start up a vocabulary that we can sanction on cult-l.
>What does everyone think?

so far, no takers to your request, lisa, although trish has volunteered
to monitor it.  so how about you and i play with it for a while
until someone else joins in or one of us gets tired.  how would
you see such a vocabulary developing?

jean

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jean Kantambu Latting (JLatting@UH.EDU or JLatting@UHOU)
_________________________________________________________________
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Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:15:00 PDT
From:         RUPP@GONZAGA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Militantly tolerant

Adam/Ruth:

Just wanted to make a request.  The "conversation" has indeed gone way
BEYOND HEATED, and has turned into an exchange of personal attacks, which
makes me rather uncomfortable.  We have lost sight of the inter-cultural
aspect of this list.  In the spirit of the season, can we call a truce and
pass on to another topic?

Michael Rupp
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Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 09:02:00 MST
From:         "Lisa J. Gilmore" <TSLGILMORE@CC.WEBER.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Militantly tolerant

>Does anyone have any ideas what qualities of this list make these sorts
>of discussions so difficult????


I believe that sometimes we take a little cultural sensitivity too far.  Then
we end up too touchy, too pontificating, too self-righteous, and down-right
mean.  We claim that we aspire to tolerance, and in so doing, we become very
willing to point out the apparent intolerance of others.  We basically become
very prejudice against our perception of prejudiced people.  ---  IMO

LJG
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Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 08:23:24 -0400
From:         "DOUGL, APPARENTLY." <STCHRI@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA>
Subject:      Re: Ruth, those many complicated Ruths

Ruth:

the masked message was the editor program itself, that is, all the
embedded commans it currently held in its buffer when I 'sent' the
message.

Luckily we are being migrated to a new machine in the coming weeks,
and the vax monster, a poorly maintained relic of a bygone ers
a, is
going back to its lair.

Yikes...

Dougl
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Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 18:29:43 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Holiday comments

Hello everybody !

Just came back from a 10 day vacation to find I missed some very
interesting discussions.....Christianity, superiority, heated
stuff and intolerance and so on.....  Loved reading it....

I am concerned that people are concerned about occassional heated
discussions and show of emotions.....its alright, you know....I do
think I got to know a few people a little better because they threw their
hearts into the discussion....  Sometimes its the only way to get to know
the essence of people is when they cannot contain their emotions....

We now know that some people REALLY BELIEVE just by knowing I am not
a conservative christian, that I am certain to fry (?..I guess I will be
finding out what is in hell)..... and I know that a lot of you of different
faiths and atheists are certain to keep me company.... we will have our owm
XCULT-L@HELL group there to provide each other support....

Here is hoping that we continue to be honest and not hold back emotions...
and DISCUSS like crazy..... Don't have much opinions or info about
religion but loved seeing you folks get into it... Course, pretty soon
we are going to have an inaugration and we can get back into politics for
a while and watch Bill Clinton give baby boomers a bad name..... or
feel good about Somalia while trying to create a Somalia in Cuba....

Its good to be back..... Hope all of you had a great holiday....

zahir
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Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 08:27:00 MST
From:         "Lisa J. Gilmore" <TSLGILMORE@CC.WEBER.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Militantly tolerant

>Dougl, i have observed the same kind of altercations on other lists.
>The lists that become "difficult" are those in which the personal and
>the intellectual become merged.  as i have observed it, the more
>personal the discussion, the more likely are people's emotions to be
>involved, the more likely the discussion to become "difficult."

The traffic on addict-l is very slow because of this.   IMO

>i think where i am leading is that we lack an emotional vocabulary that
>is socially sanctioned in these kinds of forums, and lacking such a
>vocabulary, the discussions that hook the personal in us are doomed to
>failure, because what is really going on (the emotional hook/
>personal, etc.) is not supposed to be appropriate to discuss--
>except, of course, for anger.

Good point Jean.  Let's start up a vocabulary that we can sanction on cult-l.
What does everyone think?

>i want to learn the origins of the name, "dougl, the southern
>cross."  care to tell us?

me 2.

LJG
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Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 07:00:13 -0400
From:         "DOUGL, APPARENTLY." <STCHRI@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA>
Subject:      Re: Ruth, those many complicated Ruths

Yes Ruth, that was Eve...she had taken over the whole world and
then garbled her chance...but being freed from the VAXLair so
rarely, can you blame the por thing....


We are moving to a Unix based thing called Pine?????

More new commands to learn. But this one, they tell us, is well maintained.

Yoiks....

Dougl
From: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: Re: Ruth, those many complicated Ruths
Date: 23 Dec 1992 05:45:29 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: xcult-l@psuvm.psu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, STCHRI@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA ("DOUGL, APPARENTLY.") says:

>Yes Ruth, that was Eve...she had taken over the whole world and
>then garbled her chance...but being freed from the VAXLair so
>rarely, can you blame the por thing....
>
She must be like a lion that's always lived in a cage.  If the door gets left
open by mistake, the poor puddy tat doesn't know what to do.:-)

>We are moving to a Unix based thing called Pine?????

>More new commands to learn. But this one, they tell us, is well maintained.
>
Cross your fingers and pray to whatever you pray to, because you're in for
a ride.:-)  I've heard lots of comments about Pine, none of them good.

-- 
		###	Ruth Hanschka, the Nethead    ###
			- ap290@cleveland.freenet.edu
	      Where anything can happen, and it usually does
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