HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ahudli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (anand hudli)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Chanting
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:22:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.44223
Distribution: world
Organization: Indiana University

In article <44083@ogicse.ogi.edu> dkarma@pro-nbs.acme.fred.org (Druta Karma) writes:
 >In <1b1o3oINNad5@sandman.caltech.edu>
 >emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp) writes:
 >
 >>There is a third school called Obaku, I believe.
 >>It holds that chanting the nimbutsu will "save" a
 >>person. When they die, they go to Nirvana..
 >>
 >>Nothing more is recquired but this act of faith.
 >>I think it's sad. It's not what Buddha asked people
 >>to do. It's not what Christ asked people to do. It's
 >>just an easy way out. On the other hand, spiritual
 >>capacity varies. Rather, stubborness varies.
 >>
 >
 >
 >I think this could be the beginning of an interesting discussion about the
 >merits of chanting as opposed to whatever. First of all, are there any
  ...(stuff deleted)...
 >names of God. For example, I chant the Hare Krishna mantra (Hare Krishna, Hare
 >Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare
 >Hare) on meditation beads for about two hours daily as part of my meditation
 >vows. It is my primary spiritual practice. And I can tell you that it is not
 >easy. The basic principle is that Krishna is spiritually present in His name.
 ...(stuff deleted)..
 
 >you also find there are various obstacles that have to be overcome. So it
 >really isn't so easy as you make it sound. But in another sense it is easy in
 >that one can rather quickly make some progress if one is serious. And even a
 >child can do it. 
 >
 >Druta Karma
 >----
 >ProLine:  dkarma@pro-nbs
 >Internet: dkarma@pro-nbs.acme.fred.org


 You are right in saying that chanting the holy names of God is the
means by which spiritual progress is achieved. The Puranas say that even
if a person unconsciously says the name of Vishnu that person will be freed
from material affliction. That is what is said to have happened to
Ajamila on his deathbed, when he  called his son's name, Narayana. It is
also said that one can get salvation by penance in the Krita Yuga, by 
 religious sacrifices in the Treta Yuga, by worship of the Lord in 
 the Dwapara Yuga and by simply chanting the names of the Lord in the
 present Kali Yuga. Indeed this is one of the few benefits of Kali Yuga.
    
     Harer Nama Harer Nama Harer Namaiva Kevalam
     Kalau Nastyaiva Nastyaiva Nastyaiva Gatiranyatha ||

     The name of Hari is the only path to spiritual bliss in the
     Kali Yuga. Note that repetition of terms in this verse indicates 
     emphasis of the message in the verse. 

    Also ,

     Bhaja Govindam Bhaja Govindam Govindam Bhaja Moodhamate
     Sampraapte Sannihite Kale Nahi Nahi Rakshati Dukrun Karane ||

     Devote yourself to Govinda. Memorizing complex formulae will not
     be of any use when Death approaches. Again,  the repetition 
     indicates emphasis.  

 Anand
 ahudli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
From: kish@kish.rutgers.edu (Kish)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Wanted: Electronic versions of the Tripitika
Keywords: Tripitika, Buddhist Texts
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:00:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.44205
Distribution: world
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <44078@ogicse.ogi.edu>, rublee@russell.mv.us.adobe.com (Craig Rublee) writes:
> I'm looking for any info regarding electronic versions of the Tripitika or  
> other Buddhists texts.
> 
> The one version I am aware of was done in Thailand at Mahidol University. 
> 
> Any leads would be appreciated. 
> 
> Thanks cr


A place to start might be ftp'ing out to coombs.anu.edu.au and looking
in /coombspapers/otherwork/electronic-buddhist-archives.  I just found
out about this site today, so I'm not very familiar with its contents
yet. There would seem to be much out there that might be of interest
to readers of s.r.e, and perhaps the some of the readers of s.r.e
could enhance its usefulness.  If most people already know about this
site, then perhaps its time for a FAQ ?

Yours in Dharma,
-Bill
-- 

PHONE: (908) 932-5026
UUCP : {ames,att,harvard}!uunet!rutgers!jove.rutgers.edu!kish
INTERNET: kish@jove.rutgers.edu
From: dkarma@pro-nbs.acme.fred.org (Druta Karma)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: a question for buddhists...
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:38:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.44082
Distribution: world
Organization: Pro-nbs.acme.fred.org -- San Diego, Ca (619) 571-0152

In <1b1nu8INNa8p@sandman.caltech.edu>
billc@devnull.mpd.tandem.com (Bill Carter) writes:

>   But it does seem to me to be some wishful and egotistic thinking
>   when people expect to have their personality preserved through
>   a series of life-death cycles.
>

It seems to me pretty wishful and egoistic to think that one's personality
won't be preserved through some life-death cycles. 

It seems sort of odd to imagine that something as substantial and enduring as
one's own sense of self-consciousness is going to mysteriously fade out. Even
in this life we can observe that our conscious awareness remains distinct and
unchanging while our physical bodies go through all kinds of transient stages.

Of course, there is an interesting body of evidence that people do report past
life experiences. Dr. Ian Stevenson and his coworkers have documented many
cases. There is also a body of evidence on out-of-body experiences. So that
adds some empirical support to the idea that the conscious self may be
preserved through the life-death cycle. 

Druta Karma
----
ProLine:  dkarma@pro-nbs
Internet: dkarma@pro-nbs.acme.fred.org
From: raj@globe1.att.com (Rajendra P Sharma)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Ramblings about Life (In a depressed mood) ....
Date: 12 Oct 92 18:12:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.43971
Distribution: world
Organization: AT&T

Vishwas writes:

======
	When?

Life is like that!
Need lot of courage to live!
Don't know whether one is right or wrong
Don't know what one want or don't want!
Questions look so simple but not are they!
Life is really puzzling!  
One book says one thing Other says another.
One guru says one thing Other says another.
It goes on and on like in circles.
Never ending chaos, continued conflicts
Is it the life you and me wish?
Don't need all the sensual pleasures 
But do mistakes sometimes. Repents about it.
Again starts with fresh mind hoping to find reality.
But how long can one fight?
Crying for help, Crying for love
But no response from you, Why God?
Desireless one wants to be;  Still desiring for your love only!
Is there a paradox you see?
Waiting for you becoming impatient
When this ego is going to die? 
When this prison is going to fall?
When the freedom is going to dawn?
======


		Here and Now!
	
	Life is like That!
	Needs nothing to live!
	Don't know right from wrong
	Don't know one want from another!
	Questions appear simple and they are!
	Puzzling is Life from point of view of thoughts alone!
	One book says one thing, other says another.
	One guru says one thing, other says another.
	The sayings go on and on in circles.
	This chaos and endless conflict
	Is the life one learns from others.

	Life is like that!
	Needs nothing to live!
	Neither the sensual pleasures nor repentence.
	The problem is not in sensual pleasures or repentence,
	It's the thought that binds in the circle.
	A fresh mind does not start or end,
	Or hope or chase.

	Life is like that!
	Needs nothing to live!
	Fight as long as the battle is not won.
	Crying for help, crying for love,
	Is because of God's help and love.
	God is not this or that, and neither is one.
	One and God are one and the same.
	Who is to respond to whom then?
	Just Be [in the Great Silence.]

	Desirelessness is one's true nature.
	As water flows to a even level,
	And then it flows no more.
	So one's [deep] desire flows to one's true nature.
	The paradox is only in the thoughts,
	And not in the Silence that is beyond thoughts,
	But which sustains all thoughts.

	Life is like that!
	Needs nothing to live!
	Impatient for one's real nature?
	Is like a fish thirsty in the middle of the Ocean!
	Ego lives or dies? Why care?
	Prison walls last or fall? Why care?
	Freedom is seen or hidden? Why care?
	Love the true nature [one's own].
	And care not for another['s.]

	[Then] The Here and Now Is [will be] Here and Now!

	LIFE IS LIKE THAT!



---raj
From: emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Rinzai vs. Soto Zen - descriptions?
Date: 11 Oct 92 15:02:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.43954
Distribution: world
Organization: ----

>That is not a Zen school, that is a Pure Land school. And they believe
>that by chanting the nembutsu that they will be reborn in the Western
>Paradise, reigned over by Amitabha, or Amida, where it is especially
>easy to advance spiritually and attain liberation.

Exactly what I was thinking of. 
Why isn't it a Zen school, may I ask? Simply because it is so different
in practice? Do P.Landers consider themselves a "Zen school?"

Are there other kinds of Pure Landers? Is Obaku the only PL in Japan?

It's funny.. Origionally you had to chant the nembutsu 10,000 times a day 
to be saved.. Then, when it was later from Buddha's birth and more difficult
to realize enlightenment, they dropped the recquirement to 5,000 times a day.
And then to 3,000 times, 1,000 times, 500 times, and so on until a person
was only required to chant it once in their lifetime.

--
emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp)
From: rlb@plex-1.ann-arbor.mi.us (Robin Billings)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Sexuality and spiritual practice
Date: 11 Oct 1992 23:16:52 -0700
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu



>In our practice, ideally we discipline the frequency of our sexual
>occasions (ranging from 1-2 times per week to once per month) in a process
>that allows us to observe what arises (places where energy is
>bound/identification) in the face of such discipline so that through
>self-understanding, energy and attention become free for God-Communion.

>In our practice of sexual conscious exercise, we learn to conduct sexual
>energy during sexual occasions (rather than dissipate it in conventional
>orgasm) so that our bodies and minds are energized and rejuvenated. This
>allows attention and energy to be free for God-Communion.  Again, this is
>not an ascetical practice, but a profound and deep, pleasurable intimacy.

>For more information see "The Dawn Horse Testament," by Da Avabhasa (in
>particular Chapter 21), and "Love of the Two-Armed Form" also by Da
>Avabhasa.

>--Judy

What strikes me about such discussions is the attempt to apply a system
of manipulation to what could be a spontaneous, free-flowing communion.
The moment one invokes a "how" one has become more mechanical, more
conditioned, more silly.  This kind of violence is inevitable whenever
there is a guru and his followers.
From: walsha@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (The only thing God didn't do to Job was give him a computer.)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Rinzai vs. Soto Zen - descriptions?
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:22:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.44204
Distribution: world
Organization: ----

In article <43954@ogicse.ogi.edu>, emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp) writes:
> 
> Exactly what I was thinking of. 
> Why isn't it a Zen school, may I ask? Simply because it is so different
> in practice? Do P.Landers consider themselves a "Zen school?"

In China, the Pure Land School and the Zen school have merged. 
In Japan I think the difference is maintained at least formally.

> 
> Are there other kinds of Pure Landers? Is Obaku the only PL in Japan?

The main Pure Land School in Japan is Shin. I think this is the 
largest Buddhist group in Japan.

> It's funny.. Origionally you had to chant the nembutsu 10,000 times a day 
> to be saved.. Then, when it was later from Buddha's birth and more difficult
> to realize enlightenment, they dropped the recquirement to 5,000 times a day.
> And then to 3,000 times, 1,000 times, 500 times, and so on until a person
> was only required to chant it once in their lifetime.

depends who you talk to - sometimes there's a little *gotcha* -
you have to chant it once with perfect faith, which in effect means
that you've reached enlightenment already.

Pure Land seems pretty obscure in the US. The one japanese I asked about it
only said: "Buddhists who judge other Buddhists because of their sect
haven't even figured out the most elemental words of the Buddha - 'cleanse 
your mind of judgement.'"

   ando.

"Amida Buddha is really ourself - our inmost self, and when that
inmost self is found, we are born in the Pure Land."   -- D.T. Suzuki
From: pcalvert@nyx.cs.du.edu (P. Calvert)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: NAMGYAL MONASTERY INSTITUTE OF BUDDHIST STUDIES
Date: 11 Oct 1992 23:18:29 -0700
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu



NAMGYAL MONASTERY INSTITUTE OF BUDDHIST STUDIES OPENS IN ITHACA
---------------------------------------------------------------
 
On May 22, a new chapter began in the history of Buddhism and Tibetan
culture in America.  Five monks from Namgyal Monastery, the personal
monastery of His Holiness the Dalai Lama, arrived in Ithaca, New York, to
establish a branch of Namgyal in North America in conjunction with an
Institute of Buddhist Studies.
 
Regular classes at the Namgyal Institute of Buddhist Studies will begin
August 28, 1992.  The Institute is happy to announce that Bill Magee will
be a resident faculty member for the upcoming academic year.  Bill is well
known for his Tibetan Language Summer Intensive Program at the University
of Virginia.
 
It is important to note that Namgyal's Institute of Buddhist Studies is
open to women and men regardless of religious creed.  The Institute
provides an opportunity for the systematic study in English of Tibetan
Buddhism in a traditional monastic setting.  The Institute will be
accepting late applications from prospective students who are just now
learning about Namgyal.
 
For information about the retreat or admissions, write: Namgyal Monastery
Institute of Buddhist Studies, P.O. Box 127, Ithaca, NY 14851.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
This message was posted as a public service.  I am not affiliated with the
above organization.   -pcalvert@nyx.cs.du.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: a question for buddhists...
Date: 8 Oct 1992 09:42:59 -0700
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

In article <1asln0INN35o@sandman.caltech.edu>  writes:

>I was reading Conze's commentary on the heart sutra last night and
>when i got to the part where he says: "there is no ego,
>there is no lasting person other than that generated by the 
>interplay of the 5 skandhas," I wondered how buddhists reconcile 
>this with the idea of reincarnation.

>I recently read a post where the writer affirmed his commitment to
>enlightenment even if it took many lifetimes. But if you have no
>survivable ego or personhood, what exactly will be working towards 
>enlightenment over that course of time?

>thanks for any ideas,
>   ando.

God is working toward enlightenment.
God is working.
Homo-sapiens, then, are working toward enlightenment.

When he said he would keep working, he meant "God."
"God" is everything that exists.
From: rlb@plex-1.ann-arbor.mi.us (Robin Billings)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: a question for buddhists...
Date: 11 Oct 1992 23:17:46 -0700
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

In article <1asln0INN35o@sandman.caltech.edu> <@cs.hh.ab.com,ICCGCC::WALSHA> (The only thing God didn't do to Job was give him a computer.) writes:
>
>
>I was reading Conze's commentary on the heart sutra last night and
>when i got to the part where he says: "there is no ego,
>there is no lasting person other than that generated by the 
>interplay of the 5 skandhas," I wondered how buddhists reconcile 
>this with the idea of reincarnation.
>
>I recently read a post where the writer affirmed his commitment to
>enlightenment even if it took many lifetimes. But if you have no
>survivable ego or personhood, what exactly will be working towards 
>enlightenment over that course of time?

Conze's translation is loaded with 19th century type mistranslations of
the meaning of the Buddhist psychological terms, and I would suggest
reading Thich Nhat Hanh's translation and commentary published by
Parallax Press and titled: _The_Heart_of_Understanding_.  There is also
a boxed set of the original talks on the Prajnaparamita Sutra by the
same title, also distrubuted by Parallax Press.                   

The problem with trying to capture the perceptions of a transcendent
function within ordinary, discursive, self-centered thinking is like
trying to put a tesseract in a matchbox: it just doesn't fit.  The
capacity to see what is being discussed in the Prajnaparamita Sutra
is not born of thinking.  I would suggest reading ken Wilber's 
depiction of this problem in his remarkable essay, "Eye to Eye,"
as well as a broader discussion he provides in "The Spectrum of 
Consciousness."

Good luck.
From: rlb@plex-1.ann-arbor.mi.us (Robin Billings)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Sex (was Re: Becoming aware)
Date: 11 Oct 1992 23:21:36 -0700
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu
Keywords: pleasure, seeking, never-ending, and all the rest of it...

>repression-frustration syndrome. And in the Gita Krishna says (3.33) nigrahah
>kim karisyati: "what can repression accomplish?"  It is not wrong to desire
>pleasure, but according to the bhakti-yoga system we simply must direct the
>pleasure-seeking tendency toward the proper object. Actually, the bhakti-yogis
>are the ultimate hedonists, in the sense that the enjoyment they experience in
>their liberated spiritual forms with Krishna (the reservoir of pleasure) is of
>a superior kind--unending, ever-increasing, and unmixed with any kind of pain
>or anxiety.

Unending, ever-increasing, painless pleasure...sounds like an ego dream
come true.  Attachment to pleasure and the projection by thought of its
deepest wishes; not only security, but bigger and better orgasms, forever
guaranteed, or your self-centeredness back.  It strikes me as utterly silly
that one would pursue all kinds of self denial for the promise of unending
pleasure, but humanity has a long history of being even more than utterly 
silly.  In Iran, children were given plastic keys to paradise before being
sent out to clear the mine fields for the troops, with the promise that
they would surely open the doors to paradise if they died for their faith.
Follwing a system, no matter how articulately and eruditely defended by
intellectual justification of itself and the inevitable condemnation of
the competing points of view (for thought cannot embrace the totality of life)
will lead us in the proverbial endless circle of suffering, the pleasure
promised never arrives, even to those that promise it!  And we all remain
merely second-hand human beings.  As J. Krishnamurti once put it, "There
is no path to truth. Truth is a pathless land."
From: rublee@russell.mv.us.adobe.com (Craig Rublee)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Wanted: Electronic versions of the Tripitika
Keywords: Tripitika, Buddhist Texts
Date: 14 Oct 92 02:44:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.44078
Distribution: world
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

I'm looking for any info regarding electronic versions of the Tripitika or  
other Buddhists texts.

The one version I am aware of was done in Thailand at Mahidol University. 

Any leads would be appreciated. 

Thanks cr
From: rlb@plex-1.ann-arbor.mi.us (Robin Billings)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Becoming aware
Date: 11 Oct 1992 23:22:59 -0700
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu
Keywords: guru, follower, violence

>"...You would fight against these thoughts and you would throw all
>these lower forces into me for purification. You have to say that you
>need only me- my Love, my affection- in your life, Son. I am giving you
>my infinite Love. There is nothing more I can do to show my boundless
>affection and concern for you. Now you have to feel that my Love is
>enough for you and not look to anyone else for love."

>"Master, these things are so difficult."


>"Difficult, but not impossible. One has to do the difficult thing,
>my son. God-realisation is a difficult task."

Reading such accounts of conversations between the guru and his follower 
hardly strike inspiration in the heart of the discerning listener.  What
forms violence can take.  And the foolishness of both parties, attempting
to manipulate the self into a position where it could jump over its own 
knees, seems so obvious that one is left incredulous that this could be
taken for anything other than what it is: violence.  Suppress yourself,
conform to my system, obey and devote yourself to me and you will become
free.  Thought takes on the same form when justifying war; fighting for
peace.  The only path to peace is peace.  The only path to freedom is
freedom.  The teacher that cultivates dependency is crippling the
follower to meet his own unconscious/conscious needs.  How horrible
we are.  It is no surprise that we've created such a monstrous, ugly
brutal world, and keep right on doing it.  Will all this violence ever end?
From: Richard Kennaway <jrk@information-systems.east-anglia.ac.uk>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: a question for buddhists...
Date: 7 Oct 1992 10:43:55 -0700
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

In <1asln0INN35o@sandman.caltech.edu> @cs.hh.ab.com,ICCGCC::WALSHA writes:
>I recently read a post where the writer affirmed his commitment to
>enlightenment even if it took many lifetimes. But if you have no
>survivable ego or personhood, what exactly will be working towards
>enlightenment over that course of time?

Isn't this one of the questions which the Buddha famously refused to
answer?

--
Richard Kennaway     SYS, University of East Anglia, Norwich NR4 7TJ, U.K.
Internet:  jrk@sys.uea.ac.uk               uucp:  ...mcsun!ukc!uea-sys!jrk