Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 13:50:41 -0500 
From: Carlos Bispo <cb8t+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: solution for ET: to Mr Crespo
	<1992Nov20.174052.44994@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>


Excerpts from netnews.alt.culture.indonesia: 20-Nov-92 Re: solution for
ET: to Mr .. hsiahaan@kuhub.cc.ukans. (5768)

> Mr Crespo, trying to answer your questions:


text delected describing the political system in Indonesia.

> 3. each indonesian can freely express his/her ideas/opinions. however, he/she
> must be responsible of his/her expression if something happens due to it. this
> is what is called 'responsible freedom'. most of westerners do not agree with
> this since they say this limit the freedom of expression. i personally do not
> think so. the westerners so-called 'freedom of expressions' i think is the
> culprit of such thing as KKK, pornography, gun-ownership, and many other things
> which are/can be dangerous. indonesian beleives in freedom of expression which
> will not bother/hurt/obstruct other's rights/individual. i think this is
> because indonesia consists of people of different cultures (many diffrent
> cultures !) and religions. to express one's ideas about something, it is
> better 
> not to do it by demonstration which can lead to public unrest. it is better to
> express it through the 'correct' way, i.e by telling the local DPRD what you
> feel/think. this is one thing that i think ETers should learn, because their
> demonstrations appropriately attract police/ABRI since they potentially can be
> dangerous, especially in place like ET where rebels are still around spreading
> their propaganda. and confrontations such as happened in St. Cruz could again
> happen (hopefully not).

This is just great! I wont spoil it with comments. I like this "correct
> way" thing.

> 4. you ask 'after 17 years, ETers are still against the integration', which 
> ETers ? if it is the rebels you mean, of course they dont want the integration.
> i think other 'normal' ETers and indonesian citizens are for the integration. 
> i dont know why there are still rebels in ET. i've heard that indonesian 
> government has offered them to surrender peacefully. i think these rebels still
> dont trust indonesian government and its intentions for better ET. 

Can you tell us how many "normal" ETers are there? And the fact that
Indonesians agree with the occupation is absolutely irrelevant.

> 5. young demonstrators (who you think are the proof that ETers are genuinely
> against the integration), on contrary,i think are the proof of effective propa-
> ganda by the rebels. these youngsters are not stable, they dont even mature.
> they are the one who could provoke the confrontation with non-demonstrators and
> police/troops during the demonstrations. they would believe what the rebels say
> about indonesian government due to their lack of knowledge about it. they think
> that these rebels are their leaders without realizing that they have become the
> tools by these rebels.

See text at the end.

> about your concern that why ET is still isolated from foreign reproters ? i
> want to show you a closest example : Bush is defeated by Clinton because the
> press wants it so. how ? since US victory in persian gulf, which gives Bush a
> good chance to be re-elected, press (which has moved to liberal left wing) has 
> campaigned against him by telling the public how bad the economy of US is. they
> do give the facts about US economy struggle, but they do not tell about the

This is a remarkable point. American economy is in a very good shape,
the press is wrong. There is no people in America without access to
basic Health Care, the press is wrong. There is no discrimination
against homossexuals in America, the press is wrong... etc.
Perhaps the American voters are just a bunch of kids who are being
> manipulated by the "rebels of the press".


> other facts, about other positive things done by the Bush administration. the
> same thing we dont want in ET. once ET is open for foreign reporters, we dont
> want them to go to the forests and make contact with the rebels.then, they will
> go out and tell them how the rebels feel about indoensian government and how
> bad these rebels (who are also ETers) are being treated by indonesian
> government. they will do this very often making every readers/listeners believe
> on what they are telling. and if poeple ask them whether they tell them the
> truth, they will answer: YES!. oh yes they tell the truth. but that is not the
> only truth they see in ET. they do not tell everything, especially how hard
> indonesian government tries to develop ET. they do not report how many schools
> /roads are developed during those 17 years. they only report those like the St

About the schools we have enough reports also. Don't worry! Actually I
don't know if you have recently red a posting here with the schools'
statistics before and after the illegal occupation of East Timor by
Indonesia. If you have, you have with this posting of yours lost a great
> chance to be silent on the issue of schools.
>  
> Cruz massacre.do you know why after the acquittal of the 4 LAPDs beating R King
> in the first trial there is a riot in LA? yes,it is because press makes people 
> believe what they see : police beat a civilian. they do not elaborate further

Yes, people believe in what they see. The very first time that
international reporters were allowed in East Timor the world saw what
happened in Dili. Show us something different. Allow the reporters to go
> back and see the things you say that are there to be seen.
>  
> how this happened/why. they just show the video over and over again. 
> so, in short, (sorry, u might be boring by now ;-) ) indonesian governement do 
> not want foreign reproters in ET yet until they are really sure the intention 
> of these reporters, which is should be: report the whole truth,not the truths 
> that only these reporters want to.    

> i am personally bothered by some portuguese who said that they heard bad things
> about indoensian government from other indoensians. if they listened to these
> 'indonesians' and believe them, why wouldn't they listen to 'other indoensians'
> who say positive things about indoensia ? i think they've put double standard,
> dont you ? like the LA rioters, they believe in one side of (maybe, maybe not) 
> 'truth', but do not want to listen to the other side.

> thank you (for your patience reading this ? :-) 

> H Siahaan
> NB. what i am postings are solely my opinions. they will/should/can not be
>     used as representing of other indonesian's.


Reading this message was for me very instructive. I have now no doubts
about how Indonesia is rulled.
I've been hearing people who oppose Indonesia's government and people
who support it. I am obviously free to compare both sides.
The reason I cannot agree with the Indonesians that defend their
government and why I can only be tuned for the remaining Indonesians is
because the later express positions which are closer to Internationally
accepted positions on freedom of speech, democracy, and respect for
human rights.

The funny thing about the above message is that if you replace some of
the agents you get another interesting version about Indonesia.
Instance:
replace East Timorese students by Indonesian students
replace East Timorese rebels      by Indonesian government

Now tell me about students being manipulated because they are young and
unstable as you called them.

In China the students expressed their fellings recently in Tianamen.
Perhaps they were only young and unstable... and they were being
manipulated by some one...

Carlos