HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: garyl@moe.corollary.COM (Gary Lorman)
Subject: Re: history question -- Ontario Motor Speedway
Organization: Corollary, Inc. Irvine CA
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 00:09:42 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.215638.2961@morrow.stanford.edu> jeff@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Jeff Freymueller) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.181514.15491@cabot.balltown.cma.COM> welty@balltown.cma.com (richard welty) writes:
>>
>>Ontario Motor Speedway in California was a copy (more or less) of
>>Indy; both indy cars and Nascar stockers ran there.  can anyone give
>>a brief description of the history of the track?  when was it built,
>>how long did major series run there, and ultimately what led to its
>>demise (and when was it shut down?)  does it still exist?
>>
>I don't count myself as an expert on OMS history, but I grew up about
>6 miles from the track. The first big race was the California 500 in
>1970. The track never made enough money to pay off its debts - and I
>believe that bad management had a part in that along with too few 
>spectators/too few events. I remember that it was busy every weekend
>with SOMETHING, swap meets, rock festivals, races, sand drags, etc.
>
>The property was bought by Chevron land development in 1980 or 1981.
>They promised continued racing, but announced the closing of the track
>the day they got the title (I didn't buy their gas for YEARS afterward).
>
>The track has now been totally demolished. In its place is a
>shopping/hotel complex, several tracts of identical homes, and, I
>think, a golf course.
>
>Jeff

Yes, OMS is very dead. The best racing facility is So. Cal. and it
is destroyed because of lack of interest.  I went to many of the
"Save OMS" rallies. Most of the local racers went,but I *NEVER*
saw any of the big name drivers coming out to help. The track itself
was execelent, lots of run off room if you missed a corner, lots of
garages in the pits (one even had Air Conditioning), and showers to cool
off in.  But as with most tracks in So. Cal. people moved in next door,
then complained about the track (ala Riverside, Lyons Drag strip, O.C.
Raceway, ... ... ...).  You'd think here where their is so much
auto development you'd want lots of places to try out things,.. BUT NO.
Well, I've gotten that off my chest...
-- 
--garyl-------------------------------------------------------------------------
		"Any shark that gets to be 11 or 12 feet long with 
	      300 big teeth can be considered dangerous" - 'Shark Bowl '92'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: jimharr@microsoft.com (Jim Harriger)
Subject: Re: Senna in 1993
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:20:54 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Aug17.193109.29980@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> spenser@fudd.jsc.nasa.gov (S. Spenser Aden) writes:
>In article <Bt54Az.7u4@apollo.hp.com> johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis) writes:
>>In article <93845@bu.edu> nicos@cs.bu.edu (Nicos Kontopoulos) writes:
>>>Where did you people hear that Senna said he'd drive for Williams
>>>for free?
>>Spot the subtle distinction:
>>        Senna would drive a Williams for free.
>>                            ^^^^^^^^
>>        Senna won't drive a Ferrari  for $25M.
>>                            ^^^^^^^
>
>Simply as a matter of support ... I heard the LATTER on the broadcast.  I too 
>would like to know where this driving for free was heard.  I distinctly remember
>the point that Seena would NOT drive Farrari for $25M.
>

due to repeat cases of supreme brain fade, the only broadcast of the race that
we've seen in our house is the CBC broadcast (don't ask...). anyway, at one
point james hunt was saying that mansell had asked williams for $23M for next
year and that senna had told hunt that he (senna) would drive for williams for
$23M less than mansell would.  sounds like for free to me. the viewers of the
CBC broadcast didn't get to hear about the refusal of Ferrari's $25M by senna.
i guess i'm gonna have to start taping them both as a matter of course and 
watching them both.


						jim harriger




p.s. i don't have any guess as to mr. hunt's credibility in these issues,
	although i do remember a comment someone made about him when he was
	still driving (yes, i was young at the time :-) ): "well, if he's not
	a flaming asshole, he'll do until one comes along". i don't remember
	who said it, although i think i read it one of rob walker's reports
	for road & track.



-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
jim harriger    -email: jimharr@microsoft.com      -ma bell: 206/ 936 5568
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: barkerb@slab.unt.edu (BOB BARKER)
Subject: Hungarian GP
Organization: School of Library & Info Sci, UNT
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 17:30:32 GMT

I just saw something this morning that I couldn't believe.  It actually 
looked as though Nigel was using his head for something to hang his mouth 
on.  Naw - I must have been tuned to the family channel or something.  It 
would be interesting to know why he dogged it so badly at the start.  Was 
there a problem or did he decide to finish and let the race come to him?

Bob Barker
From: t9014153@phillip.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Sennas $0.00 offer
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:55:24 GMT
Organization: RMIT (Bundoora Campus)

In article <1992Aug17.113711.12722@phillip.edu.au>, t9014143@phillip.edu.au writes:
> Can anyone confirm what James Hunt said at Hungary about Senna offering his
> services to Williams next year for free.
> 
> No salary seems an unbelievable statement for an driver the calibre of Senna.
> But under consideration he wants another championship badly and the records
> that may come with this(most wins in a season for example).

I heard this too, so I guess money don't matter to him anymore..

The Fly
From: lms@rle-vlsi.mit.edu (Luis Miguel Silveira)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Winning F1 at Hungary
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:20:19 GMT
	<71Nx03HU60Gl00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com>
	<1992Aug17.181854.21215@rdg.dec.com>
	<61Oj03iv62qN00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> <rsm.714162711@sybok>
Reply-To: lms@rle-vlsi.mit.edu
Organization: Research Laboratory of Electronics, Massachusetts Institute of
	Technology


   In article <rsm.714162711@sybok>
   rsm@doe.carleton.ca (Raul San Martin) writes:

   In <61Oj03iv62qN00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com>
   nxn@uts.amdahl.com (David J. Nixon) writes:
   >onto the straight. To get by Senna, Mansell has to take the last corner
   >almost perfectly, while timing his move to be as close behind Senna at
   >the turn exit as possible. On the few real attempts he made, he didn't
   >get it close enough. Has anyone ever passed Senna down the front straight
   >at Hungaroring?

   Well, there was that exciting dispute between Senna and Piquet a few years
   ago. I can't remember precisely but I think it was Piquet in front and
   Senna chasing him on the Lotus. Anyone remembers?

   RSM.

What about Thierry Boutsen leading from flag to flag two years ago.
He had to sustain Senna's impetus in the final laps (and everybody
else's during the rest of the race).

As has been pointed out when he finally made it to the pits to
celebrate with his team (Williams) they had already taken their
celebration elsewhere.  As it was Boutsen had already been booted form
the team for the following year, despite his good developping work
(that's when the Renault's really came out of age).

Williams is fast becoming the most hated team in F1 (and the most
loved one judging from where the drivers want to be next year).  I
gues success does come hand in hand with being a sneaky SOB :-).

-Luis Miguel

--
=============================================================================
Luis Miguel Silveira                            e-mail : lms@rle-vlsi.mit.edu
=============================================================================
Research Laboratory for Electronics  -  Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Room 36-893, 77 Massachusetts Ave,                      Phone: (617)-253-7307
Cambridge MA 02139                                      Fax:   (617)-258-7864
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also affiliated with:
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Av. Alves Redol, 9-3o, 1000 Lisboa, PORTUGAL           Phone: (351)-1-3100288
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From: danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: history question -- Ontario Motor Speedway
Date: 15 Aug 92 02:17:29 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

Bob Kehoe writes:

>>Ontario Motor Speedway in California was a copy (more or less) of
>>Indy; both indy cars and Nascar stockers ran there.  can anyone give
>>a brief description of the history of the track?  when was it built,
>>how long did major series run there, and ultimately what led to its
>>demise (and when was it shut down?)  does it still exist?
>
>Based on what I can quicky glean from my IndyCar Media guide, the first
>IndyCar (old era) race was held there 9/6/70 and Jim McElreath won the
>first 500 mile race.  The last was held 8/31/80 with the winner being
>Bobby Unser.  It shows a total of 21 indycar events held there.  Not all
>were 500 milers.  Six went a distance of only 100 and four were 200.
>
>Foyt leads the pack with a total of 5 wins, followed by Bobby U. with
>4.  The one lap record was set 8/30/79 by Mears - 44.325/203.046 mph.
>
>I don't have the info from NASCAR at hand.

Starting in '74, Ontario became the GOB finale event of the year.  That
lasted until '81 when Riverside took over that event for a while.  In fact
in '81, Riverside hosted 3 GOB events!  Anyway, Ontario was a 2.5 mile
track where the qualifying speeds were on par with Darlington.

The IMSA boys ran at Ontario in the '70s too on the road course.  The
road course ran clockwise.  I haven't read this thread for awhile :-).

And one of the races it was most remembered for, was the Questor GP when
them European F1 boys came over to challenge our Indy and F5000 boys.  The
F5000 cars were pretty much of a mismatch for the F1 cars, but Mark Donohue
put in a good performance.  Mario picked to be an F1 boy on this occasion 
and won the event in a Ferrari.  I can't remember the year, but it was
probably '71 or '72.

>If memory serves, Ontario
>went the way of land developers several years ago, and is probably
>either a housing tract or shopping mall or whatever now.  Better for
>someone who lives down there to fill us in on those details.

This sounds like what I remember too.  Kind of the same fate that ended
Riverside.  I think that I remember from a '69 or so AutoWeek that the
developers expected to build it at a cost of $25M!  You know, like what
Senna might make 24 years later.

Dan Jones
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Bad News Flash
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:29:16 GMT

It was just announced that Clifford Allison was killed today
in a practice crash at Michigan.  He was going to compete the
BGN race saturday.

I know all our best wishes are with the Allison family right now.

Sorry to have to bring the news.

bob
From: nicos@cs.bu.edu (Nicos Kontopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Senna, Prost & Mansell
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:33:17 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: nicos@csa


So, for next season we are (almost) certain that Prost will be driving
for Williams. Senna and Mansell are being considered by Williams as the
other (equal, NOT second) driver. Both Senna and Mansell said (implied) that
unless they get a Williams seat, they will take a year of/retire.

Where does this leave the Championship as far as competition is concerned?
Two of the best drivers go to the best (up to now) team. The third best
driver will not race. The second best team has problems and will probably
change engine.

(I of course know that I may be starting a flame here, and I should give team
Benetton, and drivers Patrese, Alesi, Schumacher, etc a better chance, but
that is the way I feel...)

So I guess the drivers competition in 1993 will be within the Williams
drivers. And now for the historians: Has there been such a case in RECENT
years (after lets say the 70s)?
Drivers of the same team fighting for the championship doesn't seem very
exciting to me. It should be (equipment advantage eliminated), but with all
the politics in F1... I don't know.


What do you think about that?


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Nicos Kontopoulos                             Voice: (617) 787-1780
   INTERnet: nicos@cs.bu.edu                    BITnet: ecolpqc@buacca
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: poole@hpspkla.spk.hp.com (Gary R Poole)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 23:35:21 GMT
Subject: New F-Ford engine info
Organization: Hewlett Packard Company, Spokane, Wa.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport


Can't say I'm too excited about a new spec engine for Formula Ford.  The old
1600cc is simple and reliable.

Anyway, can anyone give me any info about this 1800cc "Zeta" engine?  Also,
what cars (U.S.) have this engine?

Thanks, 
Gary
From: pete@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Senna, Prost & Mansell
Date: 19 Aug 92 09:26:40 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Nicos Kontopoulos (nicos@cs.bu.edu) wrote:
: 
: So I guess the drivers competition in 1993 will be within the Williams
: drivers. And now for the historians: Has there been such a case in RECENT
: years (after lets say the 70s)?

Errm, 1987, Williams?
      1988, McLaren?
      1989, McLaren?

pete
--
*Peter Fenelon -- Research Associate -- Software Safety Assessment Procedures*
Dept. of Computer Science, University of York, York, Y01 5DD (+44/0)904 433388
EMAIL: pete@minster.york.ac.uk `There's no room for enigmas in built up areas'
From: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Richard Beckett)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 14:13:12 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: ABS on F1 cars?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Labs, Bristol, UK
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Reply-To: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com

	I've just been driving my old man's Granada, and that's got ABS.
	At high speed they don't come on, 'cause its very difficult to lock up 
	anyway, and at low speed they'r not very impressive. In fact I could
	brake better without them, especially if the surface is slippery.
	It's no wonder the F1 drivers don't want them.

	Cheers,


		RIK


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rik O'Chet, Bristol, England.		
Email: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com		One's never alone with a Rubber Duck !
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Alboreto: 11 starts, 11 finishes
Date: 18 Aug 92 08:56:57 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre
Originator: netnews@uts.mcc.ac.uk

In article <1992Aug18.015423.4506@rdg.dec.com> winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:


>Yep.  He must be getting tired of 7th place.  Footwork/Mugen have the
>reliability down pat.  Now if they can only find a bit more speed.

>--PSW

If Honda DO pull out, maybe some of the development cash will find it's way 
to Mugen?

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|           It all depends on the size of your ham sandwich           |
|  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England   (44)061-275-6033  |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: mchivers@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Michael Chivers)
Subject: Re: Mazdas @ Bonneville
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 11:49:39 GMT

danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones) writes:

[stuff deleted]

>And what was the fastest speed ever turned at LeMans?  I'm thinking that a 
>Rondel (sp?) got into the low 250's at one point.

>Dan Jones

I seem to remember that in the early '80's, a WM Peugoet sportscar (French
national sportscar rules) got up to 405 km/h (270 mph) at Le Mans.

I'll see if I can dig up the source if anyone wants to dispute this.

Anthony Doig                  | E-Mail : mchivers@uniwa.oz.au
Corporate Systems Development |
Perth, Western Australia      | - When you read this, laugh -
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui)
Subject: Re: Hungarian GP
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 23:42:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.132532.26089@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> duane@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (duane.galensky) writes:
>closer (recognizing that patrese was still out in front with
>a commanding lead for a while there...let's face it, the
>guy was desparate)

I do not agree with your last sentence.

Patresse demonstrated that he was as good as Mansell. That's why he was way
out in front. It's just that he's a wee bit less consistent than Mansell.

Of course, he would have assured himself a job next season if only he had won.

Sigh ...

Michael MY Hui          myhui@bnr.ca           Ottawa Canada
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Re: NASCAR at INDY??
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 21:11:57 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.183959.15025@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> gbg@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (gerald.b.green) writes:
>I like both Pocono North and NHIS. They both keep you busy and
>have a nice variety to them. I guess it's a matter of personal preference.
>

Don't forget that Atlanta Internation Raceway is constructing a
(here's the 'al') road course within its confines.

<Promoter's Hat On>:  Building road courses within ovals allows the
spectators to have a view of just about everything going on, just
like an oval.  'Sorta like building a baseball field in a cornfield
in Iowa.  Ticket sales = $$$ = more and better racing  <Hat Off>

We're talking about putting a figure 8 inside the 1/4 mile oval at
Portland Speedway.  Trying to lure IMSA away from PIR :-)

-c'ball-
From: stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Stoffel)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: NASCAR: Clifford Allison, 1965-1992
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:26:39 GMT
Reply-To: stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Stoffel)
Organization: Annapolis Detachment, CARDEROCKDIV, NSWC

In rec.autos.sport, cornutt@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (David Cornutt) writes:
(in part)

>Clifford Allison, younger brother of Davey, was killed while practicing
>for the BGN event at Michigan yesterday.  According to ESPN, he was 27
>years old.

Thank you for the info. David.

As a follow-up, the Allison family has requested that, in lieu of flowers,
donations be sent to; The St. Aloysius Catholic Church in Bessemer,
Alabama for their building fund.  This is per Eli Gould on This Week
In NASCAR last night. No street or ZIP code was given, but the above
would hopefully get it there.

Bill
From: bvandepe@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Ivan E. Rection)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Hungarian GP
Date: 17 Aug 92 23:24:45 GMT

welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty) writes:


>for my money, the best part of the race was berger/schumacher/brundel/
>hakkinen, complete with the brief interlude with nigel.  nice of the
>broadcasters to pick up on _why_ michael schumacher's rear wing decided
>to part ways with him.

>i wonder if there were fisticuffs in the beneton pits later?

Could you elaborate on this please? The BBC coverage seemed to imply that
Schumacher had previously been rear-ended and had his wing damaged. Was
something said on ESPN (or whatever) to suggest otherwise?
--

Brenton Vandepeer, University of Adelaide, South Australia.

email: bvandepe@physics.adelaide.edu.au
From: MJackson.Wbst147@XEROX.COM
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: NASCAR at INDY??
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:10:11 GMT
Reply-To: MJackson.Wbst147@xerox.com

Received: by yngvi.wbst147 (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA03410; Wed, 12 Aug 92 11:10:27
EDT
Organization: Xerox Corporation, Webster NY

In article 10741@cbnewsk.cb.att.com, firebird@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (larry rosen)
writes:

> Well, one good reason I can think of not to race NACSAR at Indy is that
> the track wasn't designed for it.

Well, Indianapolis wasn't exactly designed for devices with the capabilities of
current IndyCars, either.  One could make a case on the basis of driver
protection that the track is less obsolete for NASCAR than for what runs there
now.  One could make the *opposite* case on the basis of spectator protection,
which presumably leads us to:

> In order to let NASCAR race there, IMS
> would have to modify the track in order to do so.  One of these modifications
> would be to raise the height of the wall.  This would effectively wipe
> out many of the best seats in the house. . .

Tony George says the need for such modifications has nothing to do with NASCAR.
Whether you believe him or not the work is already underway, so is irrelevant
to the issue of whether NASCAR *should* race there in the future.

I would like to see NASCAR run at Indianapolis; it would be interesting.  Your
mileage may vary.  Just keep repeating, "It's only a race course, it's only a
race course. . ."

Mark <MJackson.Wbst147@Xerox.COM>
    TV dinner by the pool; I'm so glad I finished school!
				- Frank Zappa
From: peters@informix.com (Peter Sorich)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Clifford Allison (Allison family trust fund)
Date: 17 Aug 92 14:49:40 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.
Originator: peters@cheetah


I called St. Aloysius Church this morning and was informed that there are
two ways that we can help in the memory of Clifford Allison.

One is a donation to the church building fund.
	
	St. Aloysius Catholic Church     (205) 424-2984
	1706 5th Ave North
	Bessemer, AL  35020

The other is to send a donation to the Allison family trust fund for Clifford's 
children.  The person that I talked to indicated that Clifford didn't have 
racing insurance so I am assuming that this is true.

	Clifford Allison family trust fund
	c/o Bobby Allison Racing
	135 Church St
	Hueytown, AL  35023

	ATTN: Donny Johnson



 %%%% Mon-Fri mild mannered Support Technician for Informix Software, Inc. %%%%
 *   Peter Sorich                                                             *
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Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport