HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Cuz's House of Dis-Information
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1992 03:33:19 EDT
Reply-To:     cuz@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu
From:         Brandon Magee <cuz@CHAOS.CS.BRANDEIS.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Columbus, smallpox, and syphilis
Comments: To: HISTORY@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
              "HISTORY@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu" at Oct 15, 92 6:00 pm

In a letter, Presidential Candidate HISTORY@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu wrote:

|    In the many debates over Columbus, the point of disease is often
| brought up.  Of course nobody is saying that Columbus intended to
| spread disease to the natives he encountered, although one often hears
| the more radical element screaming about how the Spanish explorers
| brought disease to them, in attempts to show how "evil" they were.

	Well, there are always the fringe elements who want to
demonize Columbus. But certainly, no one brought the disease on
purpose. In fact, with the way medicalscience was then, I'm pretty
sure people didn't realize that the european diseases were unknown to
the natives. The reverse holds as well (native disease which killed
Europeans).

|    I believe smallpox is the disease that actually wiped out so many
| of the natives, although there is apparently no evidence that it was
| intentional.  On the other hand, there is some evidence for cases of
| perhaps English colonists purposely giving smallpox-infected blankets
| to Indians.

	Smallpox seems like a likely answer. However, could you
elaborate on the British. That seems interesting.

| saying that the Spanish brought syphilis to the natives, or by
| innuendo in referring to the Spanish as "syphilitic."  However, I

	Hmmm, a play on syphardic? Of course, syphardic means that
one, or ones lineage is Spanish. Most often heard in context of
ostracized religious groups (Syphardic Jews, Syphardic Moors).

--
Cousin It                                          cuz@cs.brandeis.edu
"This is like saying how likely am I to jump over a tall building in a
  single bound - unlikely. This is like asking is lightning going to
      strike here in the next two seconds - I don't think so"
   -Ross Perot, on whether he'll re-enter the Presidential race
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 01:00:07 EDT
From: ^[corrigible <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: Hoseheads (Was: smilies)

In article <HISTORY%92101021001838@RUTVM1.RUTGERS.EDU>, DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET
says:
>In England, back bacon is more expensive and more desireable
>than streaky bacon; the closest we in the USA have to back
>bacon is called Canadian bacon. What do you make of that, eh?
Pretty good, eh? Like, too bad you don't know how to cook it, eh?:)
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Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 13:40:00 PDT
From:         Dennis Bitterlich <ECZ5DLB@UCLAMVS.BITNET>
Subject:      Oral History Sources

Greetings,

There is a new publication out of the Oral History Program at UCLA.  Just out
is "The UCLA Oral History Program: Catalog of the Collection, Second Edition."
For information write to the Dept. of Special Collections, A1713 URL, 405
Hilgard Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90024.

There is a national Oral History Association and the local area groups such
as the Southwest Oral History Association.  Just look in any index of
associations to find one in your area.

Enjoy,

Dennis Bitterlich
UCLA University Archives
ECZ5DLB@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
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Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 04:35:57 -0400
From:         "(Agnes Kruchio)" <kruchio@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject:      Re: Smilie dictionary
Comments: To: HISTORY@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
              92 9:11 pm

Thanks for the smilies, y'all.
Agnes
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Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 11:02:03 -0500
From:         "I'm not logged on,
              but I play one on TV" <TBEAUDOIN@UMKCVAX1.BITNET>
Subject:      List maintenance issue...

        I have only gotten about 3 new pieces of mail over the
last few days, and now my history newsgroup is empty!  Has USENET stopped
carrying HISTORY?  what's the deal, homeys???

        ps-- no word yet from my system administrator...

Thomas Beaudoin
From: BROWNH@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: 500 Anniversary of the Admiral's Voyage
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:56:45 GMT
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Comments: To: HISTORY%RUTVM1.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU

I hesitate to say anything, for I'm not really much interested in whether
Columbus was a hero or mass murderer, and I've consistently deleted the
messages.  But one thing does occur to me. There are many situations in
history, arguably all situations in history, in which little events have
enormous consequences.  An example of this "butterfly effect" is the poem
or story (I have not the foggiest idea what it refers to) to the effect
that for want of a nail the shoe was lost; for want of a shoe the horse
was lost; for want of a horse, the general was lost, and for want of a
general, the battle was lost. This is not how it goes, but the principle
I think is valid: in an emergent (historical) progress, little causeses
have great effects. I'm not sure how important Columbus' voyage was at
the time, but I gather a lot of accidental factors were involved.  The
effect, though, seems far out of proportion to the cause.  So what do IO
conclude?

First, for someone like Columbus to have stumbled on the New World was
a necessary condition for all that followed, but was not a sufficient
condition. To put this more simply, the discovery, conquest, and social
destruction of the New World is better explained in terms of the dynamics
of Europe as a whole rather than the myriad of particular, often petty,
events or factors through which that dynamic led inevitably to the domin-
ation of the new world.  The test of this is the answer to the question:
is there any doubt at all that by the sixteenth or seventeenth century
Europeans would not have discovered, exploited, and socially destroyed
the New World?  To the extent one concludes that all this was likely to
happen, to that extent the particular role of Columbus shrinks in signi-
ficance. Any such shrinking in significance, incidentally, has nothing to
do with any judgements we might make about the man, his courage, imagina-
tion, greed, stupidity, etc.

I guess what I'm saying is that an empiricist reductionism is not a very
enlightening approach to the Columbus issue.

Haines Brown (brownh@ccsua.ctstateu.edu)
From: twtaylor@SEATTLEU.EDU (Tom Taylor)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: census database
Date: 13 Oct 92 18:06:47 GMT
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Comments: To: History <HISTORY@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list HISTORY <HISTORY@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>

You may want to consult with Russ Menard and Steve Ruggles at the
University of Minnesota about this project.  They are leading the
digitization of the 1860? and 1880? census at the UM.  They may have some
ideas about the quality/value of this database.

Tom Taylor
Seattle U.

On Tue, 13 Oct 1992, bob pasker wrote:

> >> > I'm considering initiating a project to digitize the printed 1790 data;
> >> > that is, for every household, the name of the "head of family," # free
> >> > white males 16+, #FWM <16, #FWF, #other free persons and #slaves. It is
> >> > grouped by state/county/town.
> >> >
> >> > I'm not a historian or a documents librarian, but an academic computing
> >> > staffer, so I'd like to ask this list if this would be a valuable
 database
> >> > and why.
>
>
> the 1790-1820 census records are in abysmal shape and many have been
> destroyed (like NJ, except for 1 ward of jersey city).  they're hand
> written and have poor contrast.
>
> all the records are, however, on microfilm.  see your local library.
> putting them on CD and on a CD carousel would make more sense than
> storing them magnetically.
>
> --
> -- bob pasker
> -- bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us
> --
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Organization: Franklin and Marshall College
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Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 05:10:52 -0400
From:         VAX GREMLIN <DA_AZIZ@FANDM.BITNET>
Subject:      Info on Grad Public History programs
Comments: To: history@rutvm1.bitnet

Date sent:  8-OCT-1992 05:09:59
 Hello all, I need some help/advice, and I having had only good experiences
with the list, I thought I would ask u all.  I have decided to go to grad
school for public history and I'm in the process of writing away to schools to
get information about their programs. Unfortuantely, my college which I
graduated from in May was VERY unknowledgeable about public history, (I found
out about there being such a thing as public history by accident) so that I
have very little to go on as to what schools that offer public history grad
programs are  good. I have _A Guide to Graduate Programs in Public History_
published by the National Council on Public History which I am using for
addresses and background on the various programs but this booklet can't tell me
everything (plus the verison I have was lat printed in 1990, so some info may
be outdated). Does anyone know of any MA or PhD programs in public history that
carry good reputations, schools that I should definately write to, to at least
get info from them? From my own research, which is mostly word of mouth so far
and what I've read in _The Guide to Graduate..._ the leading candidates so far
are: Arizona State, Univ. of Cal at Santa Barbara, Temple, New York University,
Kent State, and SUNY at Albany but I'm also looking at other programs as well.
I would perfer to go for a PhD but will look at MA programs that are close, (no
sense going too far away for only a MA) I live outside of Philadelphia. Any and
all info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance and so as to not flood
the list ;-), u can send your replies to the addresses below if u care to do
so.
 Debbie A. Aziz
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
%Debbie A. Aziz           "And pray that there's         %
%206a Lincoln MIll Rd.    intelligent life somewhere up  %
%Mullica Hill N.J.         in space, Because there's     %
%Prodigy:RMPJ97A          bugger all down here on        %
%By way of F&M College:            Earth"                %
%Bitnet:DA_Aziz@Fandm.Bitnet      --Monty Python         %
%Internet:DA_AZIZ@ACAD.FANDM.EDU     The Galaxy Song     %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
From: S30285@BC750.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: Novels & History
Date: 14 Oct 92 01:23:55 GMT
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Favorite:  Kenneth Roberts, _Oliver Wiswell_--an excellent depiction of what it
   must have felt like to be a Loyalist in the American Revolution.
                        Barton Starr
                        Hong Kong Baptist College
From: MAINT2@ERS.BITNET (Ken Koester)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: Novels & History
Date: 15 Oct 92 16:09:08 GMT
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              13 Oct 1992 13:23:00 -0800 from <FOXS@AXE.HUMBOLDT .EDU>

Difficult (to catch the necessary 5 mins. whilst migrating from one system
to another, that is).  =I, Claudius= & =Claudius the God= are pretty good
reading, but as list subscribers from March or so will recall, I have no
idea how good the history in them are.  =Daughter of Time= is a good historical
detective story narrated now, about Richard III--same cautions apply.
Otherwise, ummmm, perhaps =All Quiet on the Western Front= would do.  It is
necessarily a worm's eye view of WWI, but the consensus seems to be that it
is accurate.  Let me not leave out Dorothy Dunnett's latest saga (now at 4
volumes) about the late 15th century Mediterranean world; forget if it has an
overarching title--maybe something like The House of Niccolo.  She's apparently
written a good many other historical series; I haven't tried them yet, but this
one would be quite well-written, even if every event were fictitious.
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Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1992 11:51:06 -0600
From:         Jim Causey <J_CAUSEY@CCNODE.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject:      Quoting Messages

        I'm on a VAX system, and I would like to know how to put other people's
messages in my messages with the ">" before them.  Can anyone help me?
________________
Jim Causey
J_CAUSEY@CCNODE.Colorado.EDU
From: bsinger@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Bayla Singer)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: Constellations
Date: 16 Oct 92 02:51:33 GMT
Organization: Independent scholar

The folklore of constellations may have been swept along in the more
general interst of the monks in stellar motion as a guide to time:
several of their prayer activvitiesoccured during the night.  A recent
issue of -ISIS-, the journal of theHistory of Science Society, has
an article on this topic.

--bayla singer
From: U59611@UICVM.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: Columbus, smallpox, and syphilis
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:21:19 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
              from "(Steve Creps)" <creps@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>


        Alfred W. Crosby's *Ecological Imperialism. The Biological
Expansion of Europe 900-1900* (New York, 1987) has some interesting
things to offer on this topic.
                             Kelly Richter

>    In the many debates over Columbus, the point of disease is often
> brought up.  Of course nobody is saying that Columbus intended to
> spread disease to the natives he encountered, although one often hears
> the more radical element screaming about how the Spanish explorers
> brought disease to them, in attempts to show how "evil" they were.
>
>    I believe smallpox is the disease that actually wiped out so many
> of the natives, although there is apparently no evidence that it was
> intentional.  On the other hand, there is some evidence for cases of
> perhaps English colonists purposely giving smallpox-infected blankets
> to Indians.
>
>    Anyway, what I often hear from the more radical revisionists is
> saying that the Spanish brought syphilis to the natives, or by
> innuendo in referring to the Spanish as "syphilitic."  However, I
> thought this was the other way around: that some of the Spanish
> contracted syphilis from the natives, thereby bringing it back to
> Europe.  What does the historical evidence say about this?
>
> -	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
> Steve Creps, Indiana University
> creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
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Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:51:00 EST
From:         YONI@BROWNCOG.BITNET
Subject:      FTP and Telnet SItes relating to History

Greetings,
Does anyone know of and FTP or TELNET sites which specialize in the storage of
works and articles concerning history? Does anyone have a list of such
educational FTP and TELNET sites? Thank you very much
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 08:15:13 +0100
From:         "(David Sayer)" <airsa01@MAILSERV.ZDV.UNI-TUEBINGEN.DE>
Comments: To: history@finhutc.bitnet

Please sign me up to your history list.
Thank you.
David Saywer
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Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:52:09 EDT
From:         Lenny <LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET>
Subject:      Columbus

Greetings to list members on this, the 500th anniversary of the most
important single event in the history of the human race.

Lenny
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Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 11:17:00 -0400
From:         "Michael J. McCarthy" <YEA003@MARSHALL.MU.WVNET.EDU>
Subject:      Documentary sources for Am. History Survey

        A couple of weeks ago I posted a question concerning documentary
sources for an American history survey.  Thanks to all of you who resonded.
One of the sources I discovered was a "Documents from the National Archives"
series from Kendell-Hunt publishers.  I have three of the books (which, I
believe, is the entire series so far), and the topics include Watergate, Women
in Industry in WWII and the Internment of Japanese Americans in WWII.  The
books look very interesting and I am considering using them (they are
collections of primary source documents from the National Archives; maybe 10 -
20 documents in each book).  I wanted to post this to alert others to these
books (call Kendell-Hunt at 319/589-2968) and to ask if anyone has yet used
them in a course.  If so, would you recommend them?

-------------
Mike McCarthy
Marshall Univ. History Dept.
Huntington, WV 25755, USA
YEA003@Marshall.WVNET.Edu
YEA003@MARSHALL.BITNET
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Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 14:22:00 EDT
From:         DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: 500 Anniversary of the Admiral's Voyage

I find the entire cultural war about Columbus to be tiresome.
The demonization of Columbus, the blaming him for half a
millennium of treatment of indigenous peoples is in my
view silly (and ultimately counterproductive, because it
lets everyone else off the hook). Coupled with the
demonizing of Cristobal Colon is the romanticization of
indigenous cultures. I firmly believe that just about
every human society, if given the chance and the tools,
will be beastly to its enemies.
The other side of the coin, however, is to
exalt Cristofero Colombo into a larger-than-life hero,
whose voyage was the most mammoth event since the Big Bang,
or the invention of the wheel, or the eating of oysters.
I recently saw a right-wing publication that called
Columbus the bringer of religious freedom to the New
World. (Tell that to the Inquisition.)

Let's drop the subject.

Denis Paz
dgpaz@clemson.bitnet
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Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 09:32:25 PDT
From:         bob pasker <bob@HALFDOME.SF.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Hoseheads
Comments: To: well!rutvm1.BITNET!history@uunet.UU.NET

>"Hoser" was supposed to be a generic term for all Canadians or rather
>Canadians who wear parkas, eat back-bacon, drink copious amounts of beer
>and say "eh" at the end of each sentence. A "hosehead" is a term derived
>from hoser meaning much the same thing. In truth, I never heard the
>terms "hoser" or "hosehead" until Bob and Doug.

i have to say that this fact, uh, event, is absolutely correct.
the "hose" is itself the hood of the parka (remember those sub-zero
army issue parkas with the fake fur around the hood?)

>     By the way, how do I imbed other peoples posts into my own
>(as preceeded by the > symbol)?

depends on your mailer.  send me private e-mail to the address below
and i'll try to help you out.

--
-- bob pasker
-- bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us
--
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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 04:13:11 -0400
From:         VAX GREMLIN <DA_AZIZ@FANDM.BITNET>
Subject:      What is Public History
Comments: To: history@rutvm1.bitnet

Date sent:  9-OCT-1992 04:12:23
>What, pray tell, is "public history"?
>Lenny

        Lenny, although I'm sure others will answers this question, I'll take a
shot. In it's most simple form, public history is the study of how to make
history more accessable to the general public. For example, the most comman
example is the of museum studies or historical perservation. But public also
covers media, historical archeology, archives, editing, historical
administration, local/community history, corporate history and publishing, just
to name a few more fields.  It is a rather loose field (from what I can gather)
connected only by the fact that each of these areas in some way brings the
public closer to history. Public History use to be known (and in some cases
still is) as applied history. It is a field that has really begun to take off
in the past 10 years or so. Although some academic historians look down at
public historians, the field is gaining more and more acceptance with each
year. Hope this helps.
(Wow, and all this comes from someone who didn't know public history exsisted
until a year ago.... :-) )
Debbie  Aziz
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
%Debbie A. Aziz           "And pray that there's         %
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%By way of F&M College:            Earth"                %
%Bitnet:DA_Aziz@Fandm.Bitnet      --Monty Python         %
%Internet:DA_AZIZ@ACAD.FANDM.EDU     The Galaxy Song     %
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Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1992 15:13:12 PDT
From:         bob pasker <bob@HALFDOME.SF.CA.US>
Subject:      OED defs of betelgeuse & rigel:
Comments: To: well!rutvm1.BITNET!history@uunet.UU.NET

for edification:

     Betelgeuse . Astr. Also Betelgeux . [Fr. B&eacu.telgeuse, f. Arab.] A
yellowish-red variable star of the first magnitude, the brightest in the
constellation of Orion.
 1796 C. Hutton Math. & Philos. Dict. I. 205/1 Betelgeuse, a fixed star of the
first magnitude in the right shoulder of Orion. 1820 H. Brooke Guide to Stars
12 A line from the Pleiades..will give Bellatrix in the western shoulder of
Orion, and the bright star immediately to the eastward is Betelgeux in the
right or eastern shoulder. 1866 J. N. Lockyer tr. Guillemin's Heavens ii. viii.
355 Betelgeuse, the brightest star in Orion, and Aldebaran show a decided red
tint. A. 1930 D. H. Lawrence Last Poems (1932) 49 The heavens are wandering The
moon and the earth, the sun, Saturn and Betelgeuse. 1938 R. Graves Coll. Poems
121 We have no truck either with the forebeings Of Betelgeux or with the atom's
git. 1955 Oxf. Jun. Encycl. III. 109/2 On Orion's shoulder the giant orange
star Betelgeuse shines. 1962 Listener 31 May 950/1 Betelgeux in Orion..is a
typical Red Giant.

Enter Word For OED Look Up (Press RETURN to Quit): rigel

     Rigel . Astr. Also 8 regel. [a. Arab. rijl foot.] The star &beta. in the
constellation Orion.
 1592 Hues Treat. Globes (Hakl. Soc.) 59 That which is in his left foote..[is
called] Rigel Algeuze or Algibbar. 1659 Moxon Tutor Astron. ii. 66 Orions foot,
Rigel. 1764 Ann. Reg. i. 47/2 To the east of Rigel, a star of the first
magnitude in the left foot of Orion. 1840 Penny Cycl. XVII. 18/1, &alpha. and
&beta., of the first magnitude, were frequently called Betelguese..and Rigel,
corruptions from Arabic names. 1868 Lockyer Guillemin's Heavens (ed. 3) 323 Two
of the stars of the quadrilateral, named Betelgeuse and Rigel, are of the first
magnitude.

- bob pasker
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