From: robert@landru.mtc.ti.com (Robert Treese)
Subject: Re: Jordan >= Magic && Bird
Keywords: nn
Organization: Manufacturing Technology Center, Texas Instruments, Dallas
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 13:10:32 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.211735.11097@brtph560.bnr.ca> markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.191118.15020@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com> robert@landru.mtc.ti.com (Robert Treese) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug26.152443.5240@brtph560.bnr.ca> markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:

>First let me say that your grammar stinks, as do your opinions.  
>
>Second, let me say BBBZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTT, wrong answer.
>
>Neither of Bird/Magic would have scored in this situation.  The correct
>answer is that they would have known where the open man was and Parish/
>Worthy would have the open dunk.  Cartwright would probably miss it.
>Jordan is a *MUCH* better man-to-man player than either of these guys and
>that is OBVIOUSLY what I am talking about.  
>

I apologize for my grammar being poor but so is everybody's on this net.
I did not argue that Jordan was not a bettter one on one playe.  My arguement
is that both Magic and Bird could score in one on one situations. 
When the game is on the line both Magic and Bird would go to an individaul
game.  For instance Magic's baby hook to win the championship.


>I know basketball is a team sport, but c'mon Bird's defense sucks in
>comparison.  As for team defense, neither Bird nor Magic come close
>to Jordan in that category either.  Jordan is one of the best at playing
>the passing lanes and getting the 'steal from behind'.  As for it taking
>a good defender to funnel a player into Robert and Kevin.  That's probably
>the stupidest thing you say in this post.  Overplaying the baseline side
>of a player is probably the easiest thing to do in basketball...but you
>probably wouldn't know that since you just read Larry books, watch Celtics 
>games, and figure your head isn't up your *ss.  You're wrong though, it is.
>

Forcing a defender into the middle is not just over playing the baseline.
It is convincing him that the middle is the only place to go.  There is
more to it then standing a little closer to the baseline.


>
>I'd say *your* arguements about Bird don't hold water.  Ask how many people
>think Bird is a good defender, or if Bird/Magic would try to score on a 
>double-team situation...
>
>Bird and Magic exceed in their effect on the game?  Sounds pretty shaky to
>me.  Care to prove this some way?  I tend to hear that the league is looking
>more towards Jordan/Pippen types than any other player.  I've played
>ball in New Jersey, North Carolina, and Georgia, and most of the kids on the
>playgrounds are trying looping shots, fancy dunks, reverse layups with a 
>twist, etc...  A couple do the look-away thing, but not nearly as many.
>
>BTW, you're comments on people being more likely to imitate Bird and Magic
>than Jordan make little sense, although I'm not quite sure what the relevance
>would be anyhow...
>

First my statements about Bird and Magic being more imitated had nothing
to do with who is a better basketball player.  They were a statement about
the style of the three players.

Second, sure kids on the playground TRY to imitate Jordan.  Who the hell
would not want to be able to play like he does.  But when you get into
organize ball you do see Magic's and Bird's influence.  I am not talking
about the look-away pass, because that is a media-hyped play.  I am 
talking about the team oriented passing.  The believe that the team
is better then the individual.  This was not present in basketball 
in the late seventies, everybody wanted the stats.  Sure the league wants
the quick, high jumping athletic type, but that does not mean they
can play ball.  

It seems to me we are both overstating are arguements when our views
are really not that different.  You believe Jordan is the best to ever 
play the game.  Well I believe that you can not say one person is the best.
Magic, Jordan, and Bird all have there place in the list of all time greats
but so do Wilt and Bill, Cousey and the Big 0, Maravich and Dr. J.  The
game is too complex to name the greatest player.

Robert
robert@landru.mtc.ti.com