HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: srin@cs.cornell.edu (Aravind Srinivasan)
Subject: Thiruppaavai Verse 2
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Cornell Univ., Ithaca NY
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:33:16 GMT


I am posting this on behalf of 
Dr. K. Srinivasan (srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca).

Regards,
Aravind.

===================================================================


\width=460 \leftmargin=10 \C
\(TAMIL20) 2. raagam: sahaanaa
\beginbox
vaiyaththu vaazhveergaaL naamum nampaavaikku(ch)
cheyyum kirisaigaL kELeerO paaRkadaluL
paiya(th) thuyinRa paramanadi paadi
neyyuNNOm paaluNNOm naatkaalE neeraadi
maiyittu ezhudhOm malarittu naam mudiyOm
seyyaadhana seyyOm theekkuRaLai(ch) chenROdhOm
aiyamum pichchaiyum aandhanaiyum kai kaatti
uyyumaaR eNNi ugandhElOr empaavaay.
\endbox

\c \J
Oh! you people born to live (vaazhveer gaaL) in this world (vaiyam), won't you
listen (kELeerO) to the deeds (kirisai) we do (chey) to ourselves (naam) and
to our (nam) idol (paavai)!. We sing (paadi) in praise of the feet (adi) of
the Lord (paraman) who is in meditative sleep (paiyath thuyil) on the ocean of
milk (paal kadal). We do not eat (uNNOm) ghee (ney). We do not drink (uNNOm)
milk (paal). We bathe (neeraadi) early morning (naat kaalE). We do not use
(ezhudhOm) eye liner (mai). We (naam) do not braid our hair (mudiyOm) with
flowers (malar). We do not do (seyyOm) prohited things (seyyaadhana). We do
not go and recite (chenRu OdhOm) evil (theeya) demons (kuRaL) works. We donate
(kai kaattu) to poor people (pichchai), to deserving people (aiyam), to
ascetic people (aandhanai). We think (eNNi) about our salvation (uyya) and
feel happy (ugandhu).
\j
From: akash@sol.berkeley.edu (Akash R. Deshpande)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Do we need a religion?
Date: 18 Dec 92 19:11:49 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: U.C. Berkeley -- ERL

In article <1992Dec18.134058.15430@news2.cis.umn.edu> prabhak@giga.cs.umn.edu (Satya Prabhakar) writes:

>The very name of Kant and the daunting names of his books have
>for long stopped me from even attempting to read these books.
>But when I picked up the book recently it proved to be very
>clear and well-reasoned. (I am still to complete it.) I recommend
>this book very highly.

Ya, ya, I have read Kant, Hegel, Spinoza, and a whole bunch of others
including ZMM, Tao, etc. Its only mental gymnastics, what in
Marathi is called Vai.Mai. They have little to say, so far
as I am concerned. The latter class gets off the ground,
but can't fly. No revealing insight.

Read, rather, Whitman, Blake, Emerson, Wordsworth, Shelley, Frost, etc.,
if you are into Western stuff. Or read Sudden (Oliver Strange) if you
are into *real* western stuff :-)

-Akash
From: dante@sytex.com (Vikram David)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: MURDER: SIX KIDS KILLED I
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 14:19:56 EST
X-Maildoor: WaflineMail 1.00r

NI>Path: sytex!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wu
  >!news.miami.edu!umiami!nickvora
  >From: nickvora@umiami.ir.miami.edu
  >Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
  >Subject: MURDER: SIX KIDS KILLED IN PAKISTAN
  >Message-ID: <1992Dec10.011531.14188@umiami.ir.miami.edu>
  >Date: 10 Dec 92 01:15:31 EST
  >Organization: Univ of Miami IR
  >Lines: 37

NI>        I don't think there is anyone who is genuinely surprised by the
  >reprisals taking place due to the destruction of the Babri Masjid.  I believ
  >am secular and was distressed to hear that Indians had defied the Supreme co
  >ban in destroying the Babri Masjid and I was very fearful that this would le
  >to riots all across India and indeed the world.

  >        A lot of the stuff that happened I could tolerate although it
  hurt. >Burning temples all the way across the world in the U.K., in
  Pakistan, >Bangladesh and even in Dubai, two temples were damaged by a
  handful of men >before the police intervened forcefully.  Destruction
  of a religious monumen >no matter how deserted is sacriligeous to
  Hindu teachings where we have alwa >been taught to respect other
  religions.  After all aren't we told that God i >the same no matter
  what name we call him or her?

It's a shame that they have to spread it all over the world.  I'm over
here in USA right now, and we haven't heard of anything happening here
yet.  THANK GOD.  I am an INDIAN CHRISTIAN, and I have several Pakistani
friends, and we get along great.  Although things that are happening
right now make me want to become an ATHEIST and have all religion
banned.  The point of religion, as I see it is so we can learn the
principles of live, and live peacefully, and NOT fight over it.

  >        But on CNN yesterday I heard an item of news that made my blood boil
  >In Pakistan 6 Hindu school children (about 10 years old) were stoned to DEAT
  >THIS IS TOO OUTRAGEOUS!!  Those poor kids probably didn't even understand th
  >problem and they were stoned to death.  And this happened in the day!!!  Wha
  >the HELL was the BLOODY crowd doing - cheering them on!!?

Yes, don't you think the muslims are over reacting?
---
 * OLX 2.2 * Ever stop to think and forget to start again?
                                                         
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: sumaln@ntmtv.UUCP (Navreet Sumal)
Subject: *** SF to LA ride needed ***
Originator: sumaln@nmtvs259
Reply-To: sumaln@ntmtv.UUCP (Navreet Sumal)
Organization: Northern Telecom Inc, Mountain View, CA
Distribution: ca
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:47:03 GMT




Hi,
 
A friend of mine is getting married on Sat Dec 19.  I need a ride from
the Bay Area to L.A. area (and back) that weekend as my car is aging (sigh).
I'm willing to split gas/rental (if reasonably priced).
 
Please call:  (415) 940-2261 (W) 
              (408) 255-4069 (H) 
 
Thanks in advance, 
Reet 
 
P.S. airline tickets (for sale) would be great too.
From: rsivasan@sedona.intel.com (Rajkumar Sivasankaran)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Anyone at Uni. of Colorado, Boulder ? - Need info
Date: 18 Dec 92 19:52:47 GMT
Reply-To: rsivasan@sedona.intel.com
Followup-To: soc.culture.tamil
Organization: EMD Group, Intel Corporation, chandler, AZ
Originator: rsivasan@sedona



Hi,

My brother-in-law is planning to come to UC Boulder in Spring 93
for PhD in Civil. If anyone has info about the univ. and the Civil
dept. could you e-mail it to me? I need info about: asstships, 
tuition waiver, cost of living(with spouse) etc., 
If you have any other info that i shld know, please forward those
too.

Thanks in advance,

Raj
From: mps1@cec1.wustl.edu (Mihir Pramod Shah)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: India sending army units to Somailia
Date: 19 Dec 92 20:15:08 GMT
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO

In article <1992Dec17.114352@IASTATE.EDU> jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan) writes:
>
>
>Heard on CNN this morning:
>
>
>India and Germany decided to send in army unit to Somalia to help in 
>operation RESTORE-HOPE.
>
>
>--Javed.
> 

This is most interesting, considering there is a large Pakistani contingency in
Somalia.  They have been for a much longer time than the current UN/US force.
Pakistani military officers have, in fact, been assisting the UN/US force since
they have more experience over the last several months.
I am really curious as to how this will develop.  India and Pakistan on the
same side?  While this is only a humanitarian effort, it is nonetheless
strange that this could happen.  As a pacifist, I can only hope that India and
Pakistan find some common ground in this effort.  With all the tension of the
last 45 years, a common effort (even though they probably wouldn't be helping
each other directly in Somlia) like this one can only help.

Any comments are most welcome, as long as they are civilized in tone, even if
you are biased to a particular side.

Peace...Mihir
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: rgm4@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Raghuram G Murtugudde)
Subject: POSTING EVERYTHING INCLUDING THE KITCHEN SINK...
Reply-To: rgm4@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Raghuram G Murtugudde)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 01:04:43 GMT


 Some of the questions being raised by self-proclaimed Proud Hindus and
 Nationalists surely make me wonder if there is any thought process 
 involved here at all. Here are some typical questions:

 Why don't secular people condemn the burning of temples in Pakistan?

 Is Pakistan Govt. going to rebuild all the desecrated temples?

 Are muslims feeling sorry for the hindus killed in Pakistan?


 These questions definitely sound like they are the justifications for all
 that is being done to muslims in India.  Do we achieve anything by killing
 muslims in India for every Hindu killed elsewhere? I definitely loathe
 massacre of anybody anywhere. Do we need to acknowledge first that the 
 destruction of Babri Masjid precipitated the situation everywhere?
 Did the fanatic hindus destroy the mosque with the a priori knowledge 
 that temples were going to be desecrated elsewhere?  Should India become
 a Hindu state because Pakistan is an Islamic state? Why can't we decide 
 where we want to go without reacting to everything Pakistan does?
 A lot of shameful things that happen in India are condoned as being 
 perpetrations of illiterate masses but the voices being raised on sci
 definitely indicate otherwise. 

 Raghu

 

 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: malyanka@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Raphael Malyankar)
Subject: Re: 3 BJP ruled state govts. dismissed
Followup-To: soc.culture.indian
Reply-To: malyanka@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Raphael Malyankar)
Organization: just Another State Univ.
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 04:17:55 GMT

balaji@milli.cs.umn.edu (Balaji Srinivasan) writes:

+ When you criticise somebody , one should look at both the good and bad 
+ points. Stalin was a dictator, but I would say he did have leadership 
+ qualities. In spite of her authoritarianism , when IG was in power at least
+ there was a decent time gap between 2 successive elections !

IMHO, the time gap between the 1971 and 1977 elections was very far
from "decent" - it was positively obscene.

+- Balaji.S. 

--
Raphael Malyankar
malyanka@seine.eas.asu.edu
From: sundi@med.unc.edu (Jugta Kahai)
Subject: e-mail source in bangalore?
Originator: sundi@calico
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 20:20:24 GMT

This is my first time on the net, so please excuse any inadvertent mistakes.

I have my family in Bangalore, and would like to communicate with them via
e-mail. Unfortunately, my parents have been unable to find a source they
can use. As I am not a cs student, I have no idea where to look and would 
REALLY appreciate any help. They have tried the government telecom offices,
but have been told the facility is not available.

Please try and help out, I am especially worried in view of the recent
violence. You can mail me or call me at (919) 968-9159. Thanks very much.

Also, while it is heartening to read posts from Indians who can rise above
their religion and call the situation for what it is, I strongly feel 
that there must be SOMETHING we can do as highly educated Indians.  
There have been suggestions of phone calls and letters to high-ranking 
officials, and the suggestions are certainly well taken. But have any
of you ever thought about actually contributing to families who have lost
their bread earner during these riots? I know there will be skeptics who
shake their heads and cluck that this is not possible as it will not
reach the needy, but how about MAKING it work? I am not talking about 
contributing to ambigious government offices, I am suggesting giving a 
few dollars ( remember how many rupees make a dollar) to a family
destroyed in your home city. I am sure your family will get to know
through your servants etc, at least of one family that could do with some
extra money now. I don't think it's important whether it's a hindu or
muslim that gets the money, so long as it gets there. Please take this 
in the altrusic intent with which it has been suggested, and lets not have 
a lengthy debate over my suggestion. I would be only too glad to form
a group with anyone interested, MUSLIM or HINDU.

To those who want India to become a "Hindu" state, I ask them to delve
into the origin of the word "HINDUSTAN". To those who are justifying 
the burning of temples outside of India, I ask you to remember that your 
wise prophet had stated that no mosque is worth killing for. 

 "There is no right or wrong, only thinking makes it so."

Jugta



  


Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: vijay@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Vijay Rangarajan)
Subject: Re: Visa Query
Originator: vijay@picard.ncsa.uiuc.edu
Organization: Nat'l Ctr for Supercomp App (NCSA) @ University of Illinois
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:28:15 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.134440@IASTATE.EDU> aluru@IASTATE.EDU (Srinivas Aluru) writes:
>A multiple H-1 is going to India to marry. What documents does he need to
>take for his wife to apply for a H-4 at India (Madras)?

His H-1 forms (approval and change of status). His prospective wife would
take this along with their marriage certificate and her passport. He can
call USIS to verify what else she might need, from his end all he needs to
take for her to apply for an H-4 are his H-1 forms, which he would be taking
with him anyway.

Vijay.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: prasanth@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Ravi K. Prasanth)
Subject: Re: Caste system - we have to destroy it
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 16:31:03 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.064907.9679@nucc.cc.nagoya-u.ac.jp>, f43703a@nucc.cc.nagoya-u.ac.jp (SUPRATIC GUPTA) writes:
> Caste system - we have to destroy it
> 
> Yes we have to destroy it. Now what is caste system?
> 
> Caste system is supposed to represent the class/job/
> intelectual status of the person. In that sence Caste 
> system is perfectly OK. In that way, Islam, Shiks,

That is not agreeable to me. I call my neighbour by his
name. There is no reason to have any form of caste system.

> Caste system is not wishing to marry a person of similar
> intelectual standard, but the heriditory part of it. It
> is the intelectual part of it.
>

Went right over my head. Are you saying that a person of
"lower caste" cannot be of similar intellectual standards
as you are ? Dont you think that a person who cannot find
any woman of "lower caste" intelligent enough to marry more
preoccupied with caste than marriage ?

> -- 
> With regards
> 
> SUPRATIC GUPTA
> 

RKP
From: fafat@phakt.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Do we need a religion?
Date: 18 Dec 1992 14:56:54 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu

Akash deshpande writes:
>>>I am blind and in every way impervious to light.
>>>-Akash                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>>	Ask someone who knows about photocells to make a monstrous solar
>>	panel for you. See if you're impervious to the shock which can be 
>>	generated.
>>
>>	FFT
>Don't see no proof. What is this photo/shoto? I am grounded against shock.
>Impervious means impervious, be scientific.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	For your convenience, I mark both. Again, if you mean really, really,
	REALLY impervious, how impervious and to what? Unless I know your
	limitations,... I had suggested one method by which Worma could
	immolate you :). So you insist on asbestos clothes? hmmm...

>Hmm, do I sense violence?
>-Akash

	o no no :) only Worma uses violence and threatening language :) mee
	poor only suggesty clean way of electrocuting you :)

	FFT
From: fafat@aludra.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Riots in India - 1947, 1984, 1992
Date: 14 Dec 1992 11:48:31 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

Indu writes:
>
>Todays this struggle for restoration of the RAMA Birth Place temple, is also
>one of its struggle for the Indian values and culture.

	It would be more fruitful if the same energy was channeled towards
	enforcing a Uniform Civil Code rather than worrying about some
	stoopid temple/mosque.  

>
>   Yadi Bharat may rahana hoga, 
>   Vande Mataram Kahana Hoga

	This reminds me of the times when India would lose a test match to
	Pakistan and the local Muslim crowd would set off crackers. That
	sort of a thing stings you.

>
>If today, some body, says that VHP or someother organisation has done these,
>are responsible for these - they just make a laughing stock of theselves  
>in front of those who know the ACTUAL stories behind the scenes.

	VHP/BJP has been spineless enough not to focus on the real issue, which
	is UCC. Instead, it has resorted to gimmickry with Rath Yatras and
	RJB issue, which would'nt have had an iota of an effect on a common 
	man's life.

	FFT



Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Subject: Why the killings ? (Re: Hindu kutey
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:38:16 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.indian

In article <1992Dec11.000711.45559@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, dchatterjee@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>   the opportunity to point out that when Saudi Arabia sentenced 10 Indian
>   actors and does covertly harass the Hindu travellers going thru' their 
>   country via Gulf Air, how many Indian Muslim children were roasted alive ? 
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You begin to sound scary, Mr. Deb.

>   I am trying to say in the same lines as Alok. Just compare the _level_ of 
>   retaliation, forgetting who is right and who is wrong.
> 
>      - deb chatterjee
>     (a good samaritan)

Deb,
       I am not interested in retaliation. I am interested in reconciliation.
So please do not compare the level-of-retaliation. And please do not
bring me into any such comparison, if you do.

I just felt pained when I saw that people were so engrossed in condemning
the mosque destruction that they lost sight of the real tragedy - the loss
of human lives in various places. This obsession about physical structure
appeared superficial, hence my outrage. Once again I am NOT INTERESTED
and I WILL NOT support any retaliation or even comparison of it.

I urge you to withdraw this attempt to go into comparison.

Alok


Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: ahsharif@violet.uwaterloo.ca (AH Sharif)
Subject: Re: Pakistan to rebuild temples
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:22:50 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.091705@IASTATE.EDU> jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan) writes:
>misc.news.southasia :
>
>   * Pakistan to compensate Hindus effected in riots
> 
>       Pakistan prime minster Nawaz Sharif said on Thursday that his 
>   government would compensate Hindu families attacked by Muslim protesters.
>   He told reporters after presiding over an all-party conference in 
>   Islamabad on the mosque incident that his government would also repair
>   scores of Hindu temples destroyed across Pakistan during the protest.
>   At least 10 Hindus were killed and dozens of their shops and houses were
>   burnt down in two days of frenzied reaction to the destruction of the
>   mosque at Ayodhaya. "We must condemn acts of violence done in retaliation
>   We are very sorry about it," the prime minister said. Apart from the
>   ruling Islamic Democratic Alliance (IDA), only minor parties attended
>   the conference called by Sharif to evolve a national consensus on the
>   mosque issue. The major oppositon parties held their conference in Lahore,
>   Sharif's home town. "There were no politics involved in our initiative.
>   We invited all parties in all sincerity", said the premier, who consistantly
>   rejected talks with Benazir Bhutto.

What a tragedy?
    Pakistan is rebuilding the destroyed temple,
    India is rebuilding the demolished mosque,
    Who is going to bring back those lost lives?

Are we going to learn from these?
    Are we going to haunt those politicians who are 
    responsible for all these?

-Sharif
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: vtg1714@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Vishwanath Tirupattur  )
Subject: Re: The Roots of the Recent Violence in India
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 01:31:49 GMT
Keywords: violence, caste reservations, politics, religious disputes

sjayanth@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Satyanand V. Jayanthi) writes:

>In article <Bz9Hx9.76B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> vtg1714@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Vishwanath Tirupattur  ) writes:
>>
>>Prof.  Kak does not seem to have his facts correct.  There are Hindu run 
>>educational institutions all over the country.  I went to the Sri Venkateshwara
>>High School in Tirupathi which is run by the TTD (Tirumala-Tirupathi           
>>Devastanams), which is a Hindu religious institution.  The school had a few
>>non-Hindus but we had Hindu prayers (suprabhatham and so on) every day 
>>which were always read by a Bramhin boy (from a temple priest family).  There
>>are many other instances where Hindu religious institutions run schools and 
>>collges.                                                  
>>
>>Hence, the statement that the majority community in India does not have the
>>right to establish their own educational institutions is plainly incorrect.
>>
>>Vishwanath

>  I do not know about TTD run schools, but among the other privileges that
>these minority instutions have i think is that governmental interference is
>0. The government cannot interfere with any activity going on in the school
>just because it is a minority institution. For example, by virtue of being
>a minority institution, The Deccan engineering college in hyderabad, which
>is managed by some Majlis based trust and which is minority institution,
>can take its students..without theirhaving gone through the entrance test..
>and even collect as much as they want in fees and donations...is it not a
>privilege Mr.Vishwanath? It might help you to know that there was a liti-
>gation in the courts for many years in calcutta--guess what..the Ramakrishna-
>Math wanted to be recognised as a minority organisation..I do not know what
>happened to the case..but it does go to illustrate the benefits of being
>categorised as a minority institution..

I do not know about the Deccan engineering collge, but do not condone the
situation as you describe it.  My point is that the majority Hindu community
has its way in many cases and the system permits the total insenitivity of
imposing Hindu customs and practices on those that are not Hindus, an example
of which about school prayers I just described in another follow-up post.
>Narain(from a friend's account)
>narain@bass.bu.edu

Vishwanath
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: varma@paul.rutgers.edu (not yet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Khalistan
Date: 18 Dec 92 00:03:36 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1992Dec17.095237.11610@lut.ac.uk>, G.S.Samra@lut.ac.uk writes:
			
> That's why the Sikhs are fighting for Khalistan.
> G.S.Samra

That's why SOME Sikhs are fighting for Khalistan. 
           ^^^^
What beats me is why these idiots have chosen to carve
Khalistan out of India. Would it not be easier to create
one in, say, Africa where the opposition would have been
weak (Damn! If I had posted this a week ago, Somalia
would have been a wonderful choice.)

Mr. Samara,
I see you have posted from the United Kingdom. May I assume
that you live in that country? If I may then I have a few 
questions:

1. Since you live in UK, I am curious if you want a Khalistan
   in India or UK?

2. Other than this debate on SCI, what have you done to 
   support this 'fighting for Khalistan'? Have you done
   some real fighting, i.e., say, with a gun, with people
   who oppose it? Or, have you just funded this 'fighting
   for Khalistan' so that with your money someone else 
   fights and dies?

Harsh Varma
Department of Computer Science
Rutgers University


Postscript: Please don't flame me, and I get very scared by death 
            threats.
Disclaimer: None. Please, everyone adopt my opinion, I am right!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian