From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Persona (was Re: Travel,Persona)
Date: 13 Apr 92 14:14:16 GMT


 Fra Tadhg Liath unto Keradwc an Cai and all others unto whom these presents
 shall have come giveth greeting:

 KA> T> I yield to none in my support for more authenticity in the Society, but I
 KA> T> can't help but feel that playing persona games, doomed as they are to
 KA> T> failure, merely discourages people who know no better - they think, "Well,
 KA> T> if this unworkable system is what more authenticity means, who needs it?"
 KA> T> In that regard, it hinders rather than helps.

 KA> Good my lord, I see what appears to be a set of circular reasoning: 
 KA> playing persona games is doomed because it can't work because it's
 KA> doomed.

 No, the reasoning, is that playing persona games is (supposedly) intended
 to promote authenticity, but the danger is that those who observe that it
 cannot work may associate "authenticity" with an unworkable system, and
 therefore might be tempted to throw out the authenticity with the
 unworkable system. To that extent, it hinders rather than helps toward its
 intended object.

 My reasons for believing that "playing persona games is doomed to failure"
 are extrinsic to this particular discussion. If you want to discuss that,
 then by all means I am willing to do so. However, suffice it to say that I
 realized quite early on (within a month or two) of my joining the SCA
 (wayback in AS IX) that such "persona games" were "doomed"; I have no
 reason to suspect that I am, to any great degree, more perspicacious than
 other newcomers. (I *like* to think so, but I have no reason for it...)

 Were I not an historian by training, and therefore aware of the True
 Meaning of Authenticity, I would have found it quite natural to observe
 these "ancient members" attempting to push a rope and conclude "Well, if
 this is what they mean by 'authenticity', it's for the birds."  (I have
 had confused newcomers approach me with that very attitude - we heralds
 have to deal with all kinds.) Now, if you have some evidence to suggest
 that a newcomer would not so conclude, by all means please share it with
 us. But do try to stay on topic (or make it clear that you are starting a
 different thread).

 KA> How many of the class would remember the
 KA> details of her discussion? How many would remember the lesson she taught
 KA> in the off-hand dismissal of a topic?

 The point I'm trying to make is that the "lesson she taught in the
 off-hand dismissal of a topic" is more likely to be "this teacher is a
 jerk" than something valuable about period culture. Certainly that is the
 lesson that was communicated to me, which is what prompted my original
 criticism.

 If I'm just being overly sensitive, and the chances vanishingly small that
 a significant portion of the population would have reacted in the same
 way, then I can say no more. Nobody seems willing to address the subject
 at hand, however; most responses I have read to date seem far more
 determined to castigate me for things that I did NOT say than respond to
 what I actually DID say (and that may be evidence for the opposition, since
 people probably don't listen any better than they read...)

 The cleavage point here seems to be the question: Which is more important,
 education or playing persona? I happen to feel that "education" is more
 important than "playing persona". I realize that many responders are of
 opinion that the "playing persona" was, in this case, supposedly
 "educational", but I have seen no evidence (nor does it appear to me to be
 inherently plausible) that the tactic adopted here was successful (or
 could have been successful) in its intended purpose.

 KA> Persona is a means to an end. It may not be the end to which you subscribe;
 KA> if that is the case, for you it is doomed. For those who use it to achieve
 KA> their own goals, and interfere not with others' similar attempts, it is
 KA> a valuable tool.

 The same may be said by one using a screwdriver as a chisel. My point is
 not that it is impossible to accomplish anything using persona in such a
 way (although I'll be perfectly happy to argue in favor of that proposition
 in a separate discussion); my point is that it is a seriously suboptimal
 tool, and unnecessarily so. There are other, better uses for a screwdriver
 than as a chisel; so far, the "persona players" appear to demonstrate an
 inability to realize that. (Consistent in their unconsciousness, I'll give
 them that much...)

        Tadhg

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)