From: seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore)
Subject: Re: Bi-wariness
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 04:34:51 GMT

In article <1ikrip$7vb@agate.berkeley.edu> rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>In article <C0Hv6x.6Ar@news.udel.edu> seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore) writes:
>
>->Deconstruct that idea.  Like someone else has said.  ask them why.
>->Show them the inherent oppresive nature of what they are doing
>->compare it to the way that lesbians and gays are treated in society.
>->If they believe in equality and reempowerment then they will
>->surely reevaluate their stance.  This has always worked when I have
>->found any GL bigots.  
>
>Hmm ... I think I missed the point here.
>
It could just be that I was vague.  :)

>How is refusing to date someone because of their orientation inherently
>oppressive? How is it oppressive on the same level that lesbians and gays
>are being discriminated against?  
>
For me it invalidates my orientation/preference.  It doesn't give me
respect because I am attracted to both sexes.  I am told through such
an action that I am unimportant and not legitamate.  I think that GL
people are invalidated by heterosexism.  I think that bi people are 
invalidated by biphobia and lesgay centrism.  

>It's an issue of rights and privileges, IMHO.  
>
>You have a right to seek employment.
>You have a right to look for a place to live.
>
>IMHO, it is unjust and oppressive for someone to deny you these on the basis
>of your orientation.  Equal protection and so on.
>
>It is _not_ your right to date whoever you wish to date (in other words, A
>does not have a right to date B until B consents ; A does not have a right
>for B's consent).  
>
>Lesbians have no obligation, no duty to date you.  They can use whatever
>criteria they want to reject you, and to the lesbians you talked with, being
>bisexual is something they definitely don't wish for in a person.  This is
>their right.  It is hardly oppressive to not date someone because of _any_
>reason.  You being bi is just as valid or invalid a criteria for not dating
>you as my being a computer science person is.  
>
I see your point.  But if the situation arose, and the response was
"I refuse to date you because you are African-American."  Is that not
invalidating and marginalizing.  Sure they have a right to that view.
I wouldn't want to start quotas in dating decisions:).  but I think
that it continues to perpetuate a rascist system.  In this case
a biphobic-gayles centric position.  I may be reading too much into
the situation at hand.  Maybe they didn't want to date a bi because
they have had bad experiences in the past.  I read it that they have some
philosophical objection to bisexuals and thus are invalidating it.
Maybe we are discussing two different angles here. 

>Yeah, you might want to 'educate' them ... I suspect they're missing out on
>a lot, because quite a few of the bifems I know are wonderful people.  But
>certainly it is not their obligation/duty to listen, or to even care.
>
I sort of think that if they believe in equality on the basis of sexual orien-
tation they do have a duty to consistency to listen and care.
>-roy
>-- 
Hugs and thanks for the opportunity to elaborate and wax.
I am taking a course called "Politics of sexual identity"
thus all of the "philosophical"/fundamental nature of my posts
thank you for allowing me to be obtuse and grating :)


-- 
Jim Dilmore - seamus@brahms.udel.edu    or    dilmore@che.udel.edu 
   Deconstruct your Gender          Safe sex doesn't mean no sex.          
Give me life, Give me pain,         It just means use your imagination. 
Give me myself again.  Tori Amos.            Billy Bragg 
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