From: Harvey.Smith@p0.f1.n7002.z8.FIDONET.ORG (Harvey Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Re: Almah (was Re: Supposed Talmud quotes  (was Re: Almah in Isa 7:14)
Date: 7 Jan 93 15:18:12 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 8:7002/1.0


To: Bruce Krulwich

 BK> Ah, the plot thickens, as more "proofs" come to light about what 
 BK> the Hebrew word "alma" means.  Let's take a look at Laura's 
 BK> input...

 BK> the virgin who offers to help..." ??  The first makes alot 
 BK> more sense, and is the essence of the prayer.  Hardly a case 
 BK> of "can only mean virgin."

Nope you would say "a young maid" who is a virgin, as that was the law. See
Deut 22 for more information on what happened to Jewish maids who could not prove their virginity at marriage, and if their husbands wanted to get rid of them...

Are you saying that Rebecca was not a 'Virgin'????

 BK> the young woman ran to get Moses's mother.  Again, I don't 
 BK> see how it makes sense to mean "virgin," let alone that it 
 BK> "can only be a virgin."

Nope but unless you are saying that she wasn't a virgin....  Again, my friend, the "young maid in every instance was a Virgin...


 BK> hard to say it means a virgin.  "The way of a man with a 
 BK> woman" makes perfect sense.

Sure it sure does especially during the time when Israel kept the law.
Of course now the Law is irretrievably broken, because there are very very few virgins in either Israel or the Jewish community before marriage...

That is the lawlessness of the age in which we live..

Bruce be a little more intellectually honest.  You know what the Torah says about Jewish maids that go awhoring...


 BK> Again, what does this have to do with virginal status?  It 
 BK> makes perfect sense to see this as "and therefore young women 
 BK> love you."  Where do you see that this must mean a virgin?

Again Bruce, if she wasn't a virgin my friend she would have been stoned to death...

AGAIN, in every instance and the Rabbis back me up on this, In every instance where the term is utilized for a specific maiden, it refers to a virgin...


 BK> ** SO HERE WE HAVE IT: All the verses that you cited as "can only 
 BK> be a virgin" ** can in fact be read quite nicely as 
 BK> not-necessarily--virginal young woman. ** In fact, several of 
 BK> them (Prov 30:19, S'o'S 6:8, and Is 7:14) are much ** easier 
 BK> to see meaning a non-virgin.

Again you are speculating.hardly good scholarship thats for sure... In accordance with the Law of Moses which you are supposed to be going by but can't, because over 80% of it is abrogated by the breaking of the commandments by you and all of us...So in the light of the Torah, my friend, it would always be Virgin.  anything else is speculation.

Now how do you obtain mercy from the G-d whose covenant you perpetually break, and attempt to explain away his covenant and laws?



 BK> That's right.  The Hebrew definitively says "Hashem _will_give_ 
 BK> you a sign ... a woman _is_ pregnant and _will_ bear a son."  
 BK> Simple grammer tells us that the woman is already pregnant, 

And again you are just wrong, just another modern flick of the switch in an attempt to neutralize a prophecy of HaShem...

The scholarship has already found it lacking and non proveable.  YOu are out of step and time friend... 

The Ugaritic always uses in the poetic sense, the word almah with blw, Betullah, and hence from antiquity we have the sense that Isaiah utilized it.
As far as "Hara" is concerned it can be present tense or future...

Since it is a "sign" it can only be utilized as future,  Shall be and that is how the Jewish publication societies have properly translated it....


 BK> Dov (Bruce) Krulwich

What for Dov, why should we even ask you anything.  You prove your lack of interest in real scholarship....  And always attempt coverups...

--  
Harvey Smith - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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