HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: FACTS EVERY ISRAEL BASHER MUST AVOID!
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 21:43:12 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.002206.92461@cs.cmu.edu> clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU writes:

>I was under the impression that the Jewish radicals ('neemani har
>habayit') were not allowed anywhere near the Temple Mount that day.
>Was there another group of radical Jews on or near the Temple Mount
>upsetting Muslims going to or from prayers?  Could someone else please
>confirm or deny Sandra's recounting of the events?

I am not certain but I believe that they were outside the walls of 
Old City.  Even if not, the police there, as anywhere else, know enough
to keep large distances between components that might become explosive
if brought together.  Sandra's accusations are as hysterical as the 
mob that started rioting in the mosque instead of worshipping there.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com               Pat Paulsen for President
American-Occupied New York                    This year he has a real chance!
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.
From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Zachary Baumel
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:09:02 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute
In-reply-to: friedenb@egr.msu.edu's message of 22 Jul 92 01:57:32 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.015732.4051@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> friedenb@egr.msu.edu ( Gedaliah Friedenberg ) writes:
>
> Does anyone know the status of Zachary Baumel?  His tank was ambushed
> and he was captured by the Lebanese (I think?) approximately 12 years
> ago.  
>
> Zack and a few other Israeli soldiers were known to be alive a few
> years ago because (contrary to international law) they were put in a
> miliraty parade in shackles amd blindfolds.
>
> Zack holds (held?) American citizenship.
>
> It aggrevates me that the world press is so greatful that _all_ of the
> western hostages have been released from the Arab countries which held
> them.  But, since Zack is "western" as well, he seems to be
> overlooked.  Especially since he has been held captive for much longer
> than the other hostages who were thankfully released in the last year.

Has it occurred to you that some people might consider Mr. Baumel a
prisoner of war, and not a hostage?
--
Yigal Arens   "He seems like an average type of man.  He's not, like, smart.
USC/ISI        I'm not trying to bag on him or anything, but he has the same
arens@isi.edu  mentality I have -- and I'm in the eighth grade."     Vanessa
               Martinez, after VP Quayle's visit to her school-LA Times 5/21
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Re: Israel, Lebanon, etc
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 12:48:59 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.023613.8672@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>,
bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein) writes:
> 
> In a previous article, hernlem@che14.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) says:
> 
> >Hezbollah spends its time and effort (and lives) to push Israel out of
> >Lebanon. Based on this observation, I would apply the term "resistance
> >movement".
> >    
> Firing rockets at civilians across the border is a strange way to resist,
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  
> especially when the purpose of the Israeli presence is to protect against
> such attacks.  The most effective way to get Israel to leave the small area
> of Lebanon it remains in would be to stop attacking Israelis.
> 
> (Of course, that wouldn't do anything to advance their long term goal of
> completely destroying Israel.
> 
> -- 
> bx573@cleveland.freenet.edu----Alan H. Stein----stein@uconnvm.uconn.edu

As you know, Hezbollah has only done this once, in response to the
Israeli assassination of their Secretary General and the murder of his
wife and young son with incendiary rockets. While I do not know the
exact number of rockets fired INTO Israel, I am sure that you are
confusing the number with the total for both Israel and the "security
zone" or your statistic is incorrect. Hezbollah knows that it is most
effective by attacking and killing Israeli patrols in the security zone;
that is why that is what they do. I would think that it would be obvious
that, since Hezbollah has shown that they are capable of firing rockets
into Israel but they do not, their interest lies in repelling the
Israeli occupation rather than killing Israeli civilians and attacking
Israel itself. 

Brad 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Subject: Re: IRAQ & UN Inspection - what next?
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 03:50:57 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Jul22.211832.734@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay) writes:
>With the continuing refusal (by Iraq) to permit UN inspection teams into the
>Ministry of Agriculture offices, speculation about Iraq's future once again
>becomes interesting.
>
>Is Iraq in violation of the ceasefire agreement? Their UN ambassador, in an
>interview today (CNN), says that Iraq is not - that Iraq has the right as a
>sovereign nation to deny entrance to government offices.

Given Iraq's history of evading inspection and hiding military equipment
and information in civilian (well, as non-civilian as you find in Iraq)
governmental offices and facilities, combined with its use of these offices
to buy weapons and equipment for weapons development offices, I really 
think the inspection team has probable cause for a search.

>
>If Iraq _is_ in violation (again), will the UN push for a military solution?
>Does the UN need another resolution to implement such a solution, or are
>existing resolutions adequate?

Yes, the existing cease fire resolution is adequate.  *If* Iraq _is_ in 
violation (I think so), the UN will *not* need another resolution, under 
the terms of the cease fire, to use military force.

>
>Would the American and Canadian public accept such a solution? (I would, so
>all those pursuing moral high ground may now pounce upon the issue in a
>flurry of self-righteousness :-))

I wouldn't have a problem with such a solution either, especially if it
resulted in the death of Saddam Hussein and the overthrow of the Baathist
regime.

>
>
>-- 
>"Also, our records do not support that Mr. Leuchter performed either
>consulting or any service...I can attest that the planning and work was
>performed by the Department of Correction Engineering Section and our
>institution maintenance department." Signed: Gary T. Dixon, Warden NC


-- 
Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome)    School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: rayes@Snake.mcs.kent.edu (Sandra Rayes)
Subject: Re: FACTS EVERY ISRAEL BASHER MUST AVOID!
Organization: Kent State University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 05:49:57 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.220422.6838@wpi.WPI.EDU> nyh@lektroid.WPI.EDU (Nevo Y Hed) writes:
>
>	Stone dead is rather similar to bullet dead - inciting is not
>known to be a cause for an attempted murder.
>
Exactly HOW MANY Israeli's have been killed by a rock's being hurled
at them???  I can tell you that more the 1000 Palestinians have
ben killed since the Intifada.

>
>	Anyone hit a direct hit by such a stone [and I assume we all
>seen them on TV]  is rather deadly.  The stone throwers have attempted

Are we talking hand held rocks (the variety that are thrown) or
boulders dropped over this wall (which there were none...)

>murder and if the only way to stop them is by shooting ... I donno why

So the next time my friend's little brat throws a rock (or one of his
little toy METAL cars) at me, I will tell her that COMMON SENSE says
I can defend myself with an UZI to take care of her son...

>
>
>
>
>	Anwar, noone said that the soldiers were worshipers - I am not
>sure anyone of us knows even what is the religion of the soldier
>[there are alot of Druez in the Border Guard].  On the other hand
>Sandra did prefer to call them worshipers rather then
>stone-thorwers-at-innocent-wall-prayers - though I respect most of

They were WORSHIPPERS who arrived for prayers, when they came out there
was a large band of Israelis passing out leaflets and chanting to 
destroy the Mosque.  It started with yelling...I don't even know about
rocks.  But they were yelling, police came in, holed the Muslims up 
above in the courtyard, and all hell broke loose.  More than 20 Muslims
were killed.  NO Israeli's were killed by any rocks or anything else
on that day.

>your posts [agreeing with you or not] I have to say that this one was
>way bougus[sp?]!
>
Oh, really, YoYo....and your "killer rocks" is not?

Sandra.
>
>		-Nevo
>
>
>
>
>
>-- 
>Nevo Y.	 Hed              nyh@wpi.wpi.edu
>++1-508-754-2491          CS student, Worcester Polytechnic Institute.
>"I like my cigar too, but I take it out of my mouth from time to time" G.Marx
From: tb13@ellis.uchicago.edu (leon joel gross)
Subject: Re: Perot and the Jewish controlled media
Reply-To: tb13@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:56:50 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.054203.6190@ddsw1.mcs.com> arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) writes:
>ARF says:
>
>I would like to think that a lot more could be gained by sitting down over
>a cup of coffee but I won't hold my breath.
>
>Are you capable od dealing on a one to one level with your hate and fear?

It is your hate that is the problem.  If you renounce all the hate
filled things you have said in the past, I will have no problem
sitting down with you.

>My phone number is 312 685 1878.  I will be waiting for you call.

I have some e-mail transcripts that ARF sent to somebody else, in a
group that has nothing to do with Jews or the Middle East.  I can't
post them without Mr. Schmidling's permission, but I will say that
what happened is that Jack was doing things in a group that were
harmful to the group, contrary to the spirit of the group, and against
the rules that govern net usage.

Someone (not Jewish) sent Jack a polite letter asking him to stop.
Jack reponded in email by 
1)  "accusing" the person of being Jewish, using negative terminology,
and
2)  accusing the person of being hostile to Mr Shmidling because Mr
Shmidling was not  
Jewish (or not Jewish enough) and saying that the person would not
treat someone who was Jewish (or really Jewish) that way.

I have permission of the receipient of Jack's mail to show the
mail to anyone else, so if anyone wants to see it, send me e-mail.

Mr Schmidling really has an obsession with Jews, as he brings up
Jewishness in discussions that have nothing do with Jews or Israel.  

ARF, deal with that obsession, renounce your hate, and then I will
call you.

I really don't want to have coffee with you.  I want you to leave
tpm like you promised.  You are an embarassment to yourself, and
any of the views that bear any relationship to those that you profess.

>arf

Leon Gross
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Subject: Re: Lets do some stone physics ...
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 11:54:12 GMT


  Jack Schmidling has volunteered to test your theory.  He agreed
to be the target.
-- 
"The tree of liberty must occasionally be nourished by the blood
of tyrants and of patriots."                    Thomas Jefferson
"Hello? Information?  Would you please give me the home phone of
Pat Buchanan?...Yes.  His address as well, thank you very much."
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: adam@endor.uucp (Adam Shostack)
Subject: Re: Perot and the Jewish controlled media
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:12:58 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.030210.22430@ddsw1.mcs.com> arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) writes:
> From: tb13@ellis.uchicago.edu (leon joel gross)

> >Why don't you start with the constant theme of Jews 
> controlling the press,

> ARF says:
> That is not MY theme.  I maintain and with good reason that 
> "friends of Israel", whatever their other persuasions, have 
> muffled criticism of Israel to the extent that most 
> Americans have a totally distorted view of what is going on 
> over there.

Your theme is the Ragheads and Hymie theme song.  But you keep
parroting the "The Jews control the media line."

Why is it that friends of Israel is in quotes?  Because they're not
really freinds of Israel, or because you're trying to imply some other
word?

> >the boycott of Kosher food,
> ARF says:
> 
> A legitimate political statement of solidarity with the 
> Palestinians.

What does boycotting kosher food have to do with Palestinians?  The
current government of Israel just survived a no-confidence vote
brought on by the religous parties.  The current government is more
left wing, and supposedly more likely to negotiate.

> > the Hymie and Raghead song
> 
> ARF says:
> 
> Poetic license.  Fun... humor... extasy over the forthcoming 
> peace talks.  In poor taste, maybe.   Evil... bull shit.
> Finally, I apologized for any offence caused within hours of 
> posting it.

I never saw any apology.  

> > support of David Duke 

> ARF says:
> My right as an American citizen.

No apology for supporting a Klansman, Nazi, racist pig?

Figures.

Get out of tpm like you promised.

Adam Shostack 					adam@das.harvard.edu

What a terrible thing to have lost one's .sig.  Or not to have a .sig
at all.  How true that is.      
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Subject: Re: Avoiding Flames
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 23:47:04 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.061730.8419@mcs.kent.edu> rayes@Snake.mcs.kent.edu (Sandra Rayes) writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.170738.2725@dazixco.ingr.com> naftaly@dazixco.ingr.com writes:

>>So what is Syria doing in Lebanon for the last years?
>
>Have *I* ever condoned Syria????  Have I *ever* defended Syrian actions????
>NEVER....

No, you haven't. You seem to be following the "if you can't say anything
nice, don't say anything at all" policy wrt Syria. Why you hold the double
standard of attacking Israel loudly, frequently, and publicly while Syria
gets ignored no matter what it does, is a question to which I'd like a
reasonable answer before I chalk it up to prejudice.

	-Nora


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: engelson-sean@CS.YALE.EDU (Sean Philip Engelson)
Subject: Re: FACTS EVERY ISRAEL BASHER MUST AVOID!
Organization: Yale AI Mobile Robotics Project
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:13:06 GMT


In article <1992Jul20.202826.24412@cs.cmu.edu>, anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
|> In article <1992Jul20.185031.6610@cs.yale.edu> engelson-sean@CS.YALE.EDU (Sean Philip Engelson) writes:
|> >
|> >In article <1992Jul20.160439.110302@cs.cmu.edu>, anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
|> >|> In article <1992Jul20.143701.3727@cs.yale.edu> engelson-sean@CS.YALE.EDU (Sean Philip Engelson) writes:
|> >|> >
|> >|> >In article <1992Jul20.090541.24143@mcs.kent.edu>, rayes@Snake.mcs.kent.edu (Sandra Rayes) writes:
|> >|> >|> In article <1992Jul17.120931.15600@corax.udac.uu.se> flax@mizar.docs.uu.se writes:
|> >|> >|> >
|> >|> >|> >I have to disagree strongly. I have some memory that Israel have
|> >|> >|> >laws regarding demonstrations, similar to ours, but the main point
|> >|> >|> >was that when I read Sandra's post I reacted to the way she looked upon the
|> >|> >|> >rockthrowers as 'worshippers'. What I was drivin at, was that if the same 
|> >|> >|> 
|> >|> >|> They were *worshippers*--they were at Al-Aqsa attending Prayers!
|> >|> >
|> >|> >Please cite the Sura that prescribes praying by throwing rocks down upon large
|> >|> >groups of praying Jews.  How is that worshipping, I wonder?
|> >|> 
|> >|> Please cite the relevant elements of Jewish scriptures that prescribe shooting
|> >|> people in the back while they run away.
|> >
|> >Please cite the posting in which I, or anyone else, claimed that the soldiers
|> >were worshippers.  This, even given your version of the event.
|> 
|> Please cite where Sandra claims that throwing rocks is part of Islamic
|> prayer and worship.  Unless, you've forgotten to quote some relevant part 
|> of her posting, you must've imagined that she said they were worshipping by
|> throwing rocks.
|> 
|> BTW, please cite the report in which *all* those who were shot were even alleged
|> to be rock throwers and not just worshippers.  Given even Israeli accounts 
|> (and discounting that anti-semite Mike Wallace's version), some soldiers
|> were shooting indiscriminately into a crowd of worshippers.

The soldiers were shooting at rock-throwers.  Furthermore, the rock-throwing
was not a spontaneous act; rocks had been stockpiled.  This shows the
complicity of the religious authorities of the Masjid.  Indeed, even if the
shooting was more indiscriminate than was proper, the soldiers certainly didn't
just decide to go shoot Muslim worshippers!  And if the innocent worshippers
were used by the rock-throwers as cover, whose fault is it really that
innocents got hurt?  The soldiers certainly don't bear the entire blame.

-- 
Sean Philip (Shlomo) Engelson		Im eshkachekh Yerushalayim, tishkach yemini;
Yale Department of Computer Science	Tidbak leshoni lchiki im lo ezkerekhi
Box 2158 Yale Station				Im lo a`aleh et Yerushalayim
New Haven, CT 06520					Al rosh simchati.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen)
Subject: Re: Iraq/Kuwait border dispute?
Organization: Renaissance Software, Inc.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 21:43:36 PDT

In article <1992Jul29.015322.90002@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>
[...]
>
>A country like Iraq could've been the biggest economic power in the 
>Middle East.  They will *never*, ever be as powerful or as influential
>as a military power as they could've been as an economic power.  What
>a pathetic waste.

And what would have they done as an economic power? Would they have worked
for the betterment of Iraqi citizens, or for that of those living in the
neighbor GCC states or those of the greater Middle East?

The one thing (at least) that all 1st/2nd/3rd-world countries seem to
have in common is their "blowing of historic chances". Economic power
is unquestionably a key factor in taking advantage of opportunities,
but without the element of `caring for one's fellowman', economic power
usually ends-up just being used by greedy opportunists.

And when has their vision not been limited to the exercise of military
power?

 +------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
 | Jonathan B. Horen      | "`Agenda', not `gender', is the issue."      |
 | SysAdmin/TechWriter    |                                              |
 | email: j.horen@rs.com  |        -- Diane Feinstein                    |
 | Tel:   (415) 856-8000  |           Democratic candidate for US Senate |
 +------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
From: egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Radio Host Fired After Jewish Prote
Date: 24 Jul 92 13:29:29 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

=>In article <1992Jul23.182600.16986@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein) writes:
=>>
=>>In a previous article, awair@igc.org (Arab World and Islamic Resources) says:
=>>
=>>>
=>>>From: Arab World and Islamic Resources <awair>
=>>>Subject: Radio Host Fired After Jewish Protest
=>>>
=>>>July 1st was the last program on KALW-FM (San Francisco Bay Area)
=>>>regularly hosted by Colin Edwards, who for several years on that
=>>>station has given valuable information and commentary on the
=>>>Israeli-Palestinian conflict. 
=>>
=>>I wonder if the fact that Edwards is a hate-monger, or the fact that he had
=>>little regard for facts and made up absurd, inflammatory statements such as
=>>"Yitzhak Shamir and David Ben Gurion colluded with the Nazis during World
=>>War II" could have had anything to do with his well-deserved canning. 

Maybe he was referring to the 1941 offer of the LEHI group, commanded by
Shamir, to co-operate with the Nazis against the British (Ha'aretz, Jan 31,
1983).


-- 
-Jeremy Henderson        egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk   

(or am I?)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bval@ilws61 (Valentine Bob)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Israel, Lebanon, etc
Date: 30 Jul 92 08:31:34 GMT
Organization: Intel
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

There are a few interesting points about the Israeli occupation
of Lebanon raised lately.

1) Have Palestinian Katyusha landed in Israel since the PLO was 
   disarmed?

   I believe the answer is "no", the Katyusha that landed in Israel,
   (one of which killed a five year old girl, one landed on a 
   thankfully empty bus station) were fired by "Hizbollah" after
   the Israeli assassination of their leader (Awari?)

2) Are "Hizbollah" a resistance movement or are they just terrorists
   that the other occupiers (Syria) happen to "like"?

   I'm like to see some data on this. 
   
   It is said that these group, "Hizbollah" Syria and Iran financed, 
   trained, even manned. Is there data?

   How many of these "Hizbollah resistance fighters" are native to
   Southern Lebanon and how many are mercenarys, and/or imports
   from elsewhere?

3) Is the reason the Syrians took the guns away from the PLO 
   because they are backing more radical Palestinian groups than 
   PLO and can wield more power with the other groups. Data?

  
4) In response to the usual comments that "Hizbollah kills
   soldiers and Israel kills civilians", this is one of those
   catch-22 situations. Because Israels soldiers are not where
   the Israeli population is (i.e. in Lebanon), Israeli 
   civilians are not being killed by attacks on Israeli soldiers
   from Lebanon. If you believe that "Hizbollah" is a local
   resistance movement, then you believe that there is no
   catch-22 and that the attacks will stop if Israel pulls out.
   Of course, if the soldiers pull back across the border,

      attacking Israeli soldiers will result in civilian
      casualtys
 
      attacks can be made on civilians without army intervention

5) Whether these groups are "resitance" or not, their public
   line is to call for the destruction of the state of Israel.

   How do other countrys deal with armed groups calling for the
   destruction of your country which are 

	living on your border

	being financed by the host country and/or allies who
	you are officially at a state of war with

Bob
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: IRAQ & UN Inspection - what next?
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 17:55:41 GMT
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac, Vancouver Island, CANADA

In article <gngm5lq.analyst@netcom.com> analyst@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:

>Of course the basic point is that as the loser, Saddam doesn't get to
>decide what the terms mean; the U.N. does. He needs to be taught this
>in a way that will get his attention.

>I think there'd be a lot of support for such a lesson in the U.S.

A Seattle TV station ran a telephone poll yesterday, with 21,000 someodd
responses. The results indicated about 45% would support, while about 54%
would not support military action... the figures may not be dead accurate,
but they are close enough, and suggest it probably wouldn't take much
encouragement to gain popular support. 

I haven't heard of similar polls in Canada.

-- 
"I boiled  the soap  out  of  the  bodies of women and men.  The process of
boiling alone took several days --  from 3 to 7.   During two manufacturing
processes, in which I directly participated, more than 25 kilograms of soap
were produced." (Mazur, from "Hitler's Death Camps")