From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Term limits for barons
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:46:57 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: The Rialto

Greetings to all, but especially Arval, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.  Arval
quotes me saying,

>> On the other hand, in most baronies in most of the Known World, my under-
>> standing is that what usually happens is that the outgoing coronets make
>> a recommendation, the crown reviews it, and unless the crown has strong
>> reason to think it's a disaster, the crown does it.

(and quotes also two others),and responds
>
>All three of you are generalizing based on local experience.  Angharad: In
>some parts of the SCA (the East, for example), the new baron/ess is elected
>by the populace, and it is unheard of for the Crown to refuse to accept the
>results of that election.  In other parts, the Crown accepts nominations
>from anyone and then chooses a replacement.  In still other kingdoms, the
>Crown acts of its own choice, without paying any attention to local
>opinion.  

I am aware that this is true in the East.  Is it true anywhere else?  Here
is my general understanding:

Caid, West, Atenveldt, Ansteorra, Midrealm, Outlands, Calontir: There's 
some kind of polling mechanism, but depending on circumstances and kingdom 
the results may never be made public.  The outgoing coronet makes a 
recommendation, which may or may not be public.  The crown has the absolute 
authority to name whoever they want, within the strictures of Corpora, but 
the usual practice is to look at the recommendation, check whether the poll 
shows any reasonable level of popular support, and so long as the crown has not
had real problems with the group, the outgoing coronets, or the incoming
one, the chances are strongest that the nominee will be named.  The actual
probabilities vary from kingdom to kingdom; I gather that in the Midrealm,
the tradition has been heavily with supporting the nominee, that in Ansteorra
there is more tendency for the crown to take a more independent role, and
so on.  This is just a gloss on a general tendency.

Meridies: I don't know about these days.  When I lived there, there was not
even a polling mechanism.  The outgoing coronet proposed, and failing 
objections, the crown disposed.

Atlantia: Up til recently, it was kind of done ad hoc, but mostly by the 
proposed successor model, with sometimes a supporting poll and sometimes
not.  Now there is a requirement in law of a consulting poll, sent to the
Crown.  Since the polling letters are identified, this _includes_ a 
recommendation by the coronets, who presumably will also talk to the crown.
From there, the crown decides -- so far, by accepting the results of the
poll, I think, but I cannot say for sure.

Trimaris, An Tir: I have no clue.

East: the populace elects a new coronet; the crown rubber stamps.

Does anyone living in these places have different information?  If not, the
variance of the East, which seems to be an outlier here, does not seem to
detract from the general correctness of my statement, except that I did not
very well indicate the balance of likelihood of accepting the recommendation
versus the crown making a different choice.  Probably I should have been
clear that I didn't because it varies so much.

>The hardest thing about this issue, like so many that come before the
>Board, is looking beyond your local experiences to evaluate the SCA as a
>whole.  Indeed, it is enormously difficult even to identify the assumption
>you make based on your experience.  

Indeed, it is.

>                                    This point is the center of my essay on
>the question of term limits: The nature of landed baroncy varies so widely
>across the Society that it is impossible to write one set of regulations
>which will be suitable everywhere.  The Board could reasonably choose to
>set broad guidelines for the process of removing & replacing baron/esses,
>but should leave enough leeway so that the kingdoms & baronies can
>experiment with a very wide range of alternatives.

I agree wholeheartedly: I think the idea of terms of office for everywhere,
like most homogenizing ideas, sucks.

Cheers,

-- Angharad/Terry
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca