HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net (Michael P. Deignan)
Subject: Re: Study on Sustainable Energy Future and Jobs To Be Released Oct. 5
Organization: The Rhode Island Internet Systems Cooperative Network
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1992 01:07:37 GMT

jgacker@news.gsfc.nasa.gov (Class guest) writes:

>	Never.  :-)   Perot's draconian plan proposes this;  Gore
>proposes it as part of his long-range environmental plan;  Bush is a 
>friend of big oil and doesn't propose it.  I happen to think it's a good
>idea.

I happen to disagree, as will most business economists.

>I also think public transportation is a good idea and I will
>re-cite the Singapore example:

Singapore is a bad example. With several million people packed into a
piece of land smaller than the state of Rhode Island, Singapore is the
most densely populated city on the planet.

You cannot take their example and attempt to apply it with a broad
stroke to the entire US. The circumstances surrounding different
communities - such as Boston, MA, and Boulder, CO, are so varied that
a mass transit policy for each would be radically different.

>So the gasoline tax seems to have two good effects:
>1, raises revenue,

Marginally. As with all tax increases, a 10% increase in a tax will not yield
a 10% increase in revenues.

>and 2, encourages use of alternative transportation
>strategies.

A) assuming that such transportation exists, and B) is convenient for the
needs of its consumers.


MD
-- 
--  Michael P. Deignan                      / Sex is hereditary. If your 
--  Domain: mpd@anomaly.sbs.com            /  parents never had it, chances 
--    UUCP: ...!uunet!rayssd!anomaly!mpd  /   are you won't either...
-- Telebit: +1 401 455 0347              /
From: harelb@math.cornell.edu (misc.activism.progressive co-moderator)
Newsgroups: talk.environment
Subject: TRADE: Anti-NAFTA, pro-Fair-Trade Meeting (OCT 18)
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:28:05 GMT
Organization: misc.activism.progressive on UseNet ; ACTIV-L@UMCVMB

[Via misc.activism.progressive from PeaceNet's trade.news]
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Topic 176       TRADE.NEWS 10-14-92 
kmander Updates on GATT & NAFTA Negotiations    12:20 pm  Oct 14, 1992 
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
TRADE NEWS BULLETIN 
Wednesday, October 14, 1992 

Citizens from Canada, the United  States and Mexico  will gather along
the U.S.-Canadian border to express their opposition  to NAFTA.  Among
the speakers are: the Reverend Jesse Jackson,  of the National Rainbow
Coalition;  Elaine  Bernard,   Director of Harvard  University's Labor
Center;   Lynn   Williams, International   President    of  the United
Steelworkers  Union,  Jorge  Calderone,   PRD  member of  the  Mexican
Congress and economic advisor to opposition leader Cuahtemoc Cardenas.
HANDS   ACROSS  THE  BORDER (saying  "NO  TO NAFTA"  and  "YES TO FAIR
TRADE"),

Sunday, October 18 at noon, at Peace Arch Park in Blaine, Washington.

For more information, contact Charlie Best at (206) 461-8408 or (206)
727-3800 ext.103.


_________________________________________________________
Produced by: 
Kai Mander 
The Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy (IATP) 
1313 Fifth Street SE, Suite #303 
Minneapolis, MN 55414-1546 USA 
Telephone:(612)379-5980 Fax:(612)379-5982  
E-Mail:kmander@igc.org 
_________________________________________________________ 
Newsgroups: talk.environment,misc.rural,va.general,misc.legal
From: Nigel.Allen@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Nigel Allen)
Subject: Lexington, Va. Man Apprehended For Tire Dumping
Organization: NDA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 23:32:41 GMT

Here is a press release from the Virginia Department of Game and Inland
Fisheries.

 Lexington, Va. Man Apprehended For Tire Dumping
 To: State Desks
 Contact: Jeff Uerz or Jess Sager of the Virginia Department
          of Game and Inland Fisheries, 703-332-9210

   ROCKBRIDGE COUNTY, Va., Oct. 7 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Virginia game
wardens along with the assistance of U.S. Forest Service and
Rockbridge County Litter Control officers apprehended a Lexington,
Va. man on state and federal charges of illegally dumping used tires.
   The arrest culminates a nine month investigation which began in
December, 1991.  Game wardens say as many as 800 tires have been
dumped along the roadway in portions of Allegheny and Rockbridge
Counties along Route 770.  Most of the property is owned by the U.S.
Forest Service.
   Game Warden Captain Jeff Uerz says the tires pose a severe
environmental hazard as well as compromising the aesthetic and
recreation quality of the area.  Uerz says a forest fire occurring in
the area would be more difficult to put out because of the tire
piles.  He also pointed out high concentrations of mosquitos in the
tire filled hollows.
   Rockbridge County Litter Control Officer Bob Weikel began putting
the investigation together after receiving information that illegal
tire dumping may be occurring along Route 770 on North Mountain.
Weikel contacted the U.S. Forest Service in Covington and Virginia
Game Wardens Steve Shires and Jay Dowdy to assist in the
investigation.
   Through a series of stakeouts investigators observed the suspect
picking up used tires at various locations and subsequently dumping
them along the roadway.  The suspect was initially charged with seven
counts of illegally dumping tires in Rockbridge County and two
aditional counts of dumping tires in Alleghaney County.  Other
charges are pending and could be filed following further
investigation.
 -30-

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: wheeler@SUPER.ORG (Ferrell S. Wheeler)
Newsgroups: talk.environment
Subject: Wisconsin Conference
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:31:35 GMT



                         THE EARTH
                        THE ANIMALS
                          AND YOU
                   Making The Connection
 
                        Sponsored by
                 Students for Animal Rights
                 Citizens United For Animals
 
Saturday, November 7th and Sunday November 8th, 1992
 
 University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
 Student Union
 2200 East Kenwood Boulevard - Milwaukee
 Please direct any questions to 414-229-6819
 
We invite you to attend the premier conference which is sure to become one
of the most important annual events in Wisconsin.  "The Earth, The Animals
and You '92" is a conference dedicated to the welfare of _all_ living beings
and the planet we share.
 
During this two-day conference you will be united with other concerned
activists to learn how to turn your compassion into action!
 
This conference will feature:
 
+ National and state organization speakers;
 
+ Workshops dealing in environmental, animal rights, human health
  and other vital topics;
 
+ Cruelty-free vendors featuring environmentally friendly and non-
  animal tested products for home and health (They make great
  compassionate Christmas gifts!);
 
+ Delicious vegan (pure vegetarian) cooking lessons;
 
+ And much, much more!
 
Your registration fee will cover BOTH days of the conference, workshop
materials, and vegan lunches on Saturday and Sunday.
 
CONFIRMED CONFERENCE SPEAKERS
 
          Lorri Bauston - Farm Sanctuary
        Lawrence Carter - Health Care Consumer Network
       Barbara Chadwick - Animal Rights Mobilization (ARM!)
            Joan D'Argo - Greenpeace
    Julie Byrnes Enslow - Mobilization for Survival
   Lisa Lembke, DVM, MS - State Humane Agent
                          State of Wisconsin Dept. of Agriculture
         Victoria Moran - Author _The Love-Powered Diet_
                          Contributing Editor _Vegetarian Times_
         Becky Robinson - Alley Cat Allies
      Lori Schwingshakl - Environmental Decade
            E.J. Shumak - JES Exotics, Wildlife Sanctuary
          Susan Straley - Sierra Club
 
ACCOMMODATIONS/REGISTRATION
 
Rooms have been reserved at The Hotel Wisconsin (720 Old World Third Street,
Milwaukee) at a special rate of $39.00 per room (1-4 people) plus tax. Rate
includes transportation to and from the conference. For reservations please
call 414-271-4900 and reference "The Earth, The Animals And You."
 
 Before November 1: $20/regular admission and $10/students
 After November 1:  $25/regular admission and $15/students
 
Students will be required to show a valid student ID at registration.
 
Mail registration to:
 
The Earth, The Animals and You
P.O. Box 07176
Milwaukee, WI  53207
 



Newsgroups: talk.environment,sci.environment
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: seminars on sustainable society at U.of Washington
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Distribution: usa
Date: 16 Oct 92 17:05:36

Since the director of the Institute for Environmental Studies has
announced his position in advance one can be pretty sure that the
list of speakers has been stacked so as to reach the conclusion
he wants.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Xref: sparky talk.environment:4126 sci.environment:11796 alt.activism:17284
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: talk.environment,sci.environment,alt.activism
Subject: Re: Study on Sustainable Energy Future and Jobs To Be Released Oct. 5
Date: 8 Oct 1992 16:40:06 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Oct8.130936.3499@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov>, jgacker@news.gsfc.nasa.gov (James G. Acker) writes:
>Gary Coffman (gary@ke4zv.uucp) wrote:
>
>: The only way to reduce the deficit is spend *less*, no tax increase has
>: to date been used to reduce the deficit. Give Congress X more dollars
>: and they spend 1.5X more dollars. Hurting the economy by artificially
>: raising transport costs is not a viable deficit reduction measure.
>
>	Gasoline tax increases have been proposed in virtually every
>viable deficit reduction plan.  Higher gasoline taxes also promote carpooling
>and use of public transport, both environmentally-sound actions.

Certainly they've been proposed in most deficit reduction plans.  However, how
much good have they done?  Gary's point is that increasing taxes has not
historically been shown to reduce deficits.  Are you by any chance making the
assumption that politicians are honest?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Xref: sparky talk.environment:4249 sci.environment:12068
From: pauld@cs.washington.edu (Paul Barton-Davis)
Newsgroups: talk.environment,sci.environment
Subject: seminars on sustainable society at U.of Washington
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:26:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: beaver.1992Oct16.212659.2793
Distribution: usa
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle

The Institute for Environmental Studies at the University of
Washington has been holding a weekly seminar series this academic year
called "Attaining a Sustainable Society". Below are a few quotes from
the director of the IES, Michael Karr, as well as the remaining topics
for the fall titles. I will be attending these seminars, and if
worthwhile, will report on the discussions. I suspect these will be a
lot more one-sided than discussions/arguments in this forum, which
will be a shame. Admission is free to members of UW.

-- paul

Seminar Titles:
--------------
Oct 22nd: Diane Lye (Sociology): Human Population
          Philip Bereano (Technical Communication): 
				"Technology: Solution & problem"

Oct 29th: Richard Gammon (Chemistry & Oceanography):
		"Human Impact on Global Climactic Stability"

Nov 5th:  Chad Oliver (Forestry): "Rural Land Use Issues"

Nov 12th: Brian Mar (Civil Engineering): "Engineering and Technology"

Nov 19th: Jason Mayerfeld (Political Science): "Deprivation, Torture
			and the Duty to Prevent Suffering"

Dec 3rd:  Ken Clatterbaugh (Philosophy): "What is a sustainable
			society ?"

Dec 10th: John Edward (Zoology): panel discussion

A few quotes (taken from "University Weekly"):
---------------------------------------------

For instance, Karr believes society must change and change quickly.
But don't people resist change ? "The idea of change as something to
fight against is absurd" Karr says. "Society has never been stable".
He mentions the Industrial Revolution and the information age [sic] we
are now in as examples.

Instead, Karr wants people to people to talk about *how* to change:
"We can no longer afford the luxury of passive acceptance of change.
We have to evaluate the consequences of change, which is inevitable."

....

Humans can no longer claim ignorance as an excuse, Karr says. People
can understand correlations between dumping toxins inm lakes and brain
damage in children born to women who eat fish from those lakes.
Likewise, people know what happens when they build cities in deserts.
They need to pipe in water, which poses a host of engineering and
environmental problems.

...

The real issue, Karr says, is not how long we live, but simply how we
live. "Do we want to spend our days like the people in the movie
Bladerunner, under a dark haze like rats in a maze ? For the
disenfranchised in urban environments throughout the world, that
future is here."

-- 
There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a
little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider
price only are this man's lawful prey.
						John Ruskin
From: cf448@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Christian J. Stork)
Newsgroups: talk.environment
Subject: Re: Beluga Whales Die at Shadd Aquarium in Chicago, Ill
Date: 12 Oct 1992 20:50:55 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu



Dear Chelsea,
I think this is a good complaint but what is it that you think that some people should do about this problem.
	It's one thing to voice your complaint but the real thing to do is take action. I think you should maybe get an address or something people can write to to voice their complaints as well.
						cordially yours,
						Christian stork
Newsgroups: talk.environment
From: dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska)
Subject: Re: ENV SATELLITE SHUTDOWN IN DEC 1992
Keywords: nasa, environment, meteorology, satellite, ozone, aerosol
Organization: VEXCEL Corporation, Boulder CO
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 18:59:30 GMT

In article <Bvv90n.HKr@news.larc.nasa.gov> rowland@zorba7.larc.nasa.gov (Michael W. Rowland) writes:
>This is a repost of 6 Oct. posting (revised)...
>
>We at Langley Research Center received news on Thursday, October 2,
>1992 that NASA intends to shutdown the following satellites in
>December to save about $15M:
>
>     NUMBUS-7
>
>     ERBS
>
>     NOAA-9 (partial?)
>
>     NOAA-10 (partial?)
>
>     UARS (SPRING 1993)
>
>Some of the following experiments that will terminate when
>their satellites are shutdown are:
>
>     Stratospheric Aerosol Measurement II  (SAM II)
>
>     Earth Radiation Budget Experiment (ERBS) (3)
>
>     Stratospheric Aerosol and Gas Experiment II (SAGE II)
>     
>     Total Ozone Measurement System (TOMS)
>
>     Halogen Occultation Experiment (HALOE)
>
>     Microwave Limb Sounder (MLS)
>
>No plans have been stated to restart the satellites.
>
>Budget cuts are specified in House Conference Report 102-902
>that is attached to HR 5679, Sept. 24, 1992.
>
>Mike Rowland
>
>Mike Rowland, Aerosol Research Branch, MS 475
>NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton VA 23681
>internet: rowland@zorba7.larc.nasa.gov

To sane 15 million?  What is the annual budget for the space station?
-- 

		dingo in boulder	(dean@vexcel.com)
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Newsgroups: talk.environment
Subject: He who refuses to take a stand is doomed to nonsense.
Date: 15 Oct 1992 08:50:24 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


   John McCarthy seems to be blanketting both newsgroups
 sci.environment and talk.environment with nitpicking
 trivial critiques, silliness, insults......but

He who refuses to propose a serious solution is doomed to
talk nonsense.

-- 
Capt. Kirk: let's head for that planet, third from the sun, it
            looks promising.... |-)
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 13:32:24 EDT
From: <MEK104@psuvm.psu.edu>  (Mark Kubiske)
Newsgroups: talk.environment
Subject:    timber harvesting and carbon storage

Some time ago we were discussing the impact of timber harvesting on forest
soil carbon storage.  The Idea was that timber harvesting increases organic
matter decomposition rates resulting in massive losses of stored C into the
atmosphere.  This was the point of debate.  Well, a recent study refutes
this claim.  The citation, abstract, and an excerpt from the 'discussion'
follows:


Alban, D. H. and D. A. Perala.  1992. Carbon storage in lake states aspen
ecosystems.  Canadian Journal of Forest Research 22:1107-1110.

Abstract:
     "Total ecosystem carbon in the soil and vegetation was measured
for a range of aspen (Populus tremuloides Michx.) ecosystems, including a
chronosequence on the same soil ranging in age from 0 to 80 years.  Soil
carbon stayed relatively constant throughout the stand's life and was not
affected by timber harvesting.  Changes in ecosystem carbon closely
paralleled the changes in standing biomass.  Aspen grown on 40-year
rotations on good soils will sequester several times as much carbon per year
as old-growth forests."


(excerpt from 'results and discussion', p.  1109)

    "In an earlier report (Alban and Perala 1990), we established that neither
whole-tree nor conventional harvesting (tops and limbs left on site) at
locations 2, 5, and 6 had any effect on soil C.  Others have also found that
forest harvesting, if unaccompanied by burning or erosion, does not change
soil C storage (Edwards and Ross-Todd 1983; Huntington and Ryan 1990;
Schiffman and Johnson 1989).  This conslusion is supported by a major
literature review (Johnson 1992)."

MEK
From: bg055@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stewart Rowe)
Newsgroups: talk.environment
Subject: Re: Aspects of Du Pont Position re CFC Phaseout
Date: 8 Oct 1992 02:01:04 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


As in the matter of chlorine use in general, Greenpeace appears
to try to choose proposals which would, if adopted, cause maximum
disruption to modern industry.
 
Back to the Pleistocene!
From: bvickers@valentine.ics.uci.edu (Brett J. Vickers)
Subject: Is it a joke? (was Re: A Theory of Creation)
Newsgroups: talk.origins,alt.atheism
Reply-To: bvickers@ics.uci.edu (Brett J. Vickers)
Organization: Univ. of Calif., Irvine, Info. & Computer Sci. Dept.
Keywords: creationist God LORD Darwin fish chips wood carpenter
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:32:49 GMT

After re-reading the original article in which the "theory of creation"
was presented, I find myself wondering if I got hooked by a joke,
cleverly fashioned to satirize creationists.  The reference listing
had "[5] Private Communication, the LORD" and another one from a book
on fly fishing.

Anything that stupid has got to be a joke.  But then again, why would
real people (assuming they exist) attach their names to it?

(I can't imagine what National Science Foundation proposal reviewers
would think if I listed one of my references as "Private Communication,
God."  They'd probably frame the page and put it up on the wall for
laughs.)

--
Brett J. Vickers		"Substitute `damn' everytime you're
bvickers@ics.uci.edu		 inclined to write `very'; your editor
				 will delete it and the writing will be
				 just as it should be."  - Mark Twain
Newsgroups: talk.origins
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Subject: Re: Chauvanism against Chimps  (was: a farewell to Antti)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 01:02:13 GMT
Organization: Apple
Followup-To: talk.origins

In article <1992Oct7.193954.4938@aurora.com>, isaak@aurora.com (Mark Isaak)
wrote:
> 
> In article <1992Oct7.144146.23770@cs.joensuu.fi> asiivo@cs.joensuu.fi (Antti Siivonen) writes:
> >	At least I'm not related to chimpanzees. 
> 
> A serious question for Antti and any other Creationists who feel
> like he does:
> 
> What do you feel would be wrong with being related to chimpanzees?
> Please note:  I'm not asking why you think you aren't related;

Doesn't the latest Sagan book address this issue? I have to get it
as my Saturday evening reading... I also agree that why are we
so afraid of being associated to the apes. We even look like huge
hairless apes anyway. And act as apes in many instances :-).

Cheers,
Kent
	Faith is often the boast of the man who is too lazy to	investigate. -F.M.
Knowles
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.
Newsgroups: talk.origins
From: salem@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Bruce Salem)
Subject: Re: What makes a creationist?
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 04:06:36 GMT

In article <92865@netnews.upenn.edu> rowe@pender.ee.upenn.edu (Mickey Rowe) writes:
>In article <1992Oct13.031154.20914@morrow.stanford.edu>
>     salem@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Bruce Salem) writes:
>>	I can only judge by the people who debate here that
>>the thing that seems to characterize most of them is that they
>>are moralistic control freaks and most of them are engineers.

>So put up or shut up, Bruce.  What support do you have for the belief
>that "most [creationists] are engineers."?
>      ^^^^

	It is funny how what I said got generalized. I never said
that most Creationists are engineers. I recall that very few have
degrees in fields that relate directly to evolution, very few
biologists or geologists, can be counted in their ranks. I believe
that Chris Stassen has presented credentials of Creationist notables,
and very few have done work in fields realted to evolution and the
age of the earth.

	Now, as for the USNET and engineers being represented as
Creationists. It is quite true as you suggest that engineers are
over sampled in this forum, but so are a disperportinate number
of people who argue for creationism both Christian and engineers,
in this group. I don't know of any Creationists who have posted
here who are biologists. One is a physicist, and one recently who is a
geochemist whose professional work does not touch on the issues 
of this group. I know of other cases of people whose background is in
the earth sciences who have Creationist beliefs, but these again
do not relate to their work.

	On the other hand many of the regulars in this group who
answer Creationists are biologists, geologists, and yes, engineers.

	Of people I can remember off the top of my head who were
outspoken supporters of Creationism I can recall that Bob Bales
is an engineer. Other names I can recall are Ken Arndt, Ken Jenkins,
but I don't recall that I could knew that their affiliations were
other than religious. Any one know Ted Holden's profession? I will
have to dig through my archives, but I recall that most of the people
had affiliations which were not to the sciences that best relate to
the questions and many were engineers or software people.

	You are welcome to try to disprove my assertion for the eight
years you have been reading me.

Bruce Salem