HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dburr@sbphy.physics.ucsb.edu (Donald Burr)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.3b1,comp.sys.att
Subject: Ethernet stuff
Date: 30 Jul 92 23:15:28 GMT
Reply-To: dburr@sbphy.physics.ucsb.edu
Followup-To: comp.sys.3b1
Organization: UCSB Physics Department

Well, I just found an Ethernet card locally, and have some questions and
requests.

(1) Someone mentioned here that they had completed a port of /etc/inetd,
the BSD Internet master daemon.  I have tried this (using the
4.3bsd-net) sources, but failed miserably.  Has this code indeed been
ported to the Unix PC, and if so, where can I get it?  (Or can send me a
copy)

(2) Has anyone ported a more "modern" ftpd and tftpd (FTP daemon)
Ideally, the perfect ftpd would be the one running on many of the major
archive sites (like uunet), that displays text when you cd into certain
directories, and prints the last-modified date of README files you
encounter.  (this is running and is available at wuarchive.wustl.edu, I
think)  But if that one hasn't been ported, the one from the 4.3bsd-net
sources would be adequate.

(3) Where can one get an Ethernet transceiver for this card?  And how
much do they run?

(4) Has anyone compiled either TinyMUD or TinyMUCK for this machine?  If
so, could you send me source or diffs (full source preferred)?  Also
have you succeeded in porting any of the MUD user-interface stuff, like
TinyFugue (tf) or tinytalk?

(5) Has anyone successfully  ported and ran NNTP (Network News Transfer
Protocol)?  I tried, but was unsuccessful (it used some BSDism's that we
don't have, not even with the Ethernet libraries)  If you have it, could
you please send me source?

(6) Last, but not least, does anyone have any other interesting software
for this card?  (POP, talk/talkd, etc.)?  Wher can I get it, or can you
send me a copy?

Please reply by mail to dburr@sbphy.physics.ucsb.edu.
Thanks in advance.

: Donald Burr, Coordinator          : dburr@sbphy.physics.ucsb.edu   INTERNET :
: Santa Barbara Area Network(SBANET): dburr@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Backup)  ======== :
: Santa Barbara, CA  USA            : DonaldBurr@aol.com (AOL gateway)        :
: uunet!dsc.com!dschub!sbanet!dburr : America OnLine: DonaldBurr              :
Newsgroups: comp.sys.3b1
From: gak@wrs.com (Richard Stueven)
Subject: Re: BLANKING SCREEN
Reply-To: gak@wrs.com
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:50:05 GMT

In article 11065@cci632.cci.com, adw@cci632.cci.com (Allen Williams (co-op)) writes:
> How can I get my 7800 to blank the screen after it's not being used for
>a while?

There should be a "Preferences" selection in your User Agent "Office"
window.  One of the selections under that one allows you to specify how
many minutes may pass before blanking the screen.

---
gak
107/H/3&4

Newsgroups: comp.sys.3b1
From: crtb@helix.nih.gov (Chuck Bacon)
Subject: Re: Packet size for 3b1 C-Kermit?
Keywords: C-Kermit, packet size
Organization: National Institutes of Health, Bethesda
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:27:04 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.144255.16067@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> jmartino@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (James R Martino) writes:
>I'm using an ancient version of C-Kermit for the 3b1 which has a limit on the
>packet size of 94.  What are the limits on packet size for currently
>available versions of C-Kermit for the 3b1?
>
>Thanks a meg in advance,
>
The current C-Kermit, version 5A(182) or so, has a total of 9 KB for
packets which is divided by the number of windows.  At 19200 on a 3b1,
I'd advise packets no larger than about 200 bytes, and perhaps 15
windows.  Experiment with larger packets or numbers of windows and let
us know.

Kermit is very hard to get a consistent performance out of.  For
some reason, it'll go gangbusters on smaller files with huge packets
(3KB say, with 3 windows), but files over 10-30KB, it'll NAK out.
Smaller packets seem to allow it to go to completion with even very
large files (multi-meg.) even if it only runs 600 file bytes per sec.

Start the transfer, then don't worry, relax, have a homebrew.
--
	Chuck Bacon - crtb@helix.nih.gov ( alas, not my 3b1 )-:
		ABHOR SECRECY	-   DEFEND PRIVACY
Newsgroups: comp.sys.3b1
From: tgeorge@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (timothy.d.george)
Subject: 3B1 for sale
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 20:46:38 GMT

        Following gems for sale, price does not include shipping.
 
 
        3B1     2 meg mother board, 
                67 meg Hard Disk,
                rodent,
                3.51m OS
                Lots of software (Dev set, Gnu stuff, Smartware, etc).
                Manuals for most of the above.
 
                $500.00 (Or make offer)
 
 
        Informix RDS 3.30 for 3b1 with Manual           $50 (obo)
        Informix SQL 2.10 for 3b1 with Manuals          $80 (obo)
        Informix C4GL 1.10 for 3b1 with Manuals         $100 (obo)
        Informix ESQL/C 2.10 for 3b1 with Manuals       $80 (obo)
 
 
        call Tom at (201) 581-5051 Day
                    (908) 603-6593 Evening

        or send mail to attmail!syadnj!troehr

Newsgroups: comp.sys.3b1
From: forrie@morwyn.uucp (Forrie Aldrich)
Subject: Re: MGR stuff
Organization: Vision Graphics
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 05:04:05 GMT

In article <Brpoz2.I7o@world.std.com|  azog@world.std.com (Azog Thoth) writes:
| 
| Is anyone doing anything with mgr anymore? Its a great window manager, but
| I am wondering if there are any more clients out there? I recently got
| the Atari ST version of MGR, and have been playing around with it. 
| Seems that this stuff could really shine in a multi-machine environment.
| I used mgrterm to connect to my 3b1, and ran eyes, and it worked. It
| followed my local mouse pointer! Now call me naive :-) But this is 
| real cool.
| 
| I would like to start writing some stuff myself, but I am not much of a
| programmer, so itll take a while. 
[ ... ]

	Well, despite my many postings and questions on the topic, I have
	found little or no support in the community for MGR.  MGR requires
	a Hardware modification (called VIDPAL), which noone is producing
	anymore.  And without it, it's just a pain to run... it's very
	slow in the shell mode, anyhow.

	Seeing the lack of support, which is really sad, I wouldn't spend
	too much effort developing for MGR.  Perhaps someday it will be
	more popular... and hopefully someone capable will begin creating
	VIDPALS, or at least something that would work like it.
	
	I, too, had some plans for different programs with the MGR environment,
	however it just isn't worth the bother when essentially no one would
	benefit.

	Good luck.

-- 
	   -----------	      Forrest Aldrich	      -----------
	   -------     morwyn!forrie@unhtel.unh.edu	  -------
	   ----						     ----
	   --	     VISION GRAPHICS --	Dover, NH - USA	       --
	   ------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.3b1
From: forrie@morwyn.uucp (Forrie Aldrich)
Subject: VOICE POWER error problem
Organization: Vision Graphics
              Dover NH
              USA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 03:08:42 GMT

I don't know if there are many VOICE-POWER users out there anymore, but
here goes.

I have version 2.1 of the software (the last release), and for some 
reason I have problems, still, with SILENCE DETECTION.  I have it record
in 64k, and it never detects a hang-up or anything... and that can get
pretty annoying when someone hangs up at the beep, and you have a full 
blank message on disk.

I'm using Gil's ansmach program, with some minor enhancements of my own.  
Those 'enhancements' have nothing to do with the message taking routines,
etc.

I'm really tired of this, and would like to resolve this delimma.  The
VOICE-NEWS indicates something about new fatal error trapping routines. I
don't have documentation, so I haven't a clue as to how to apply them.
The popular error I get is this:

"vcbrecord(): read(VCC) failed, errno=110"

... that happens right after someone either hangs up or leaves a message.
Then the ansmach dies, and I have to restart it manually.  It can ruin
your whole day when you're expecting an important phone call.

I'm wondering if it may end up being the program itself, and the way it's
coded (or lack of code) that is the problem.  Yet, I haven't heard other
complaints, so I've nothing to compare.

Any help would be appreciated.

-- 
	   -----------	      Forrest Aldrich	      -----------
	   -------     morwyn!forrie@unhtel.unh.edu	  -------
	   ----						     ----
	   --	     VISION GRAPHICS --	Dover, NH - USA	       --
	   ------------------------------------------------------
From: vern@zebra.UUCP (Vernon C. Hoxie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.3b1
Subject: Re: What's in Development Set?
Keywords: warning backup UA
Date: 25 Jul 92 09:53:34 GMT
Reply-To: vern@zebra.UUCP (Vernon C. Hoxie)
Organization: Alpha Science Computer Networks, Denver, Colo.

In article <1992Jul23.150331.6182@mydual.uucp> olson%mydual.uucp@alliant.com writes:
...deletions

>I don't recall what file tells the system what to skip, perhaps someone
>else can help.

..deletion

The Foundation Set is listed in "/usr/install/FND/Files".  The others
that have been installed from floppies are listed in
"/usr/installed/CONTENTS".


vern

-- 
Vernon C. Hoxie                            {ncar,boulder}!scicom!zebra!vern
3975 W. 29th Ave.                                       voice: 303-477-1780
Denver, Colo., 80212                                     uucp: 303-455-2670
Newsgroups: comp.sys.3b1
From: cel@nsscmail.att.com (clayton EDward LEIHY iii)
Subject: FOR SALE: 3.51 diskettes
Followup-To: comp.sys.3b1
Summary: My 3B1 died
Organization: NCR Systems Support Center - New Jersey
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:53:31 GMT

Anyone need a set of 3.51 software (plus Installation Guide), contact me
directly.

Fifteen dollars postpaid US.

Ed Leihy, Rm. 2E78
5000 Hadley Rd.
S. Plainfield, NJ  07080]
(908) 668-6319
FAX: (908) 668-6617
attmail!cleihy
Newsgroups: comp.sys.3b1
From: forrie@morwyn.uucp (Forrie Aldrich)
Subject: Re: Ethernet stuff
Organization: Vision Graphics
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 16:08:23 GMT

In article <5414@ucsbcsl.ucsb.edu|  dburr@sbphy.physics.ucsb.edu writes:
| 
| (1) Someone mentioned here that they had completed a port of /etc/inetd,
| the BSD Internet master daemon.  I have tried this (using the
| 4.3bsd-net) sources, but failed miserably.  Has this code indeed been
| ported to the Unix PC, and if so, where can I get it?  (Or can send me a
| copy)
| 
| (2) Has anyone ported a more "modern" ftpd and tftpd (FTP daemon)
| Ideally, the perfect ftpd would be the one running on many of the major
| archive sites (like uunet), that displays text when you cd into certain
| directories, and prints the last-modified date of README files you
| encounter.  (this is running and is available at wuarchive.wustl.edu, I
| think)  But if that one hasn't been ported, the one from the 4.3bsd-net
| sources would be adequate.
[ ... ]

	I think this may have been Thad.  In any event, I've sent him an email
	message recently regarding these and if he'd be willing to allow us 
	to use them (src, etc).  Haven't heard from him yet...

| (4) Has anyone compiled either TinyMUD or TinyMUCK for this machine?  If
| so, could you send me source or diffs (full source preferred)?  Also
| have you succeeded in porting any of the MUD user-interface stuff, like
| TinyFugue (tf) or tinytalk?
[ ... ]

	I've been trying for a very LONG time... it's frustrating with software
	we have being out-of-date.  I had a problem with an undefined macro
	throughout most of these, it was 'fd_set'.  Turns out someone from 
	comp.unix.wizards was able to give me that define, and it seemed to
	work with a 3b2.  

	Currently, I'm working on trying to compile LambdaMOO.  Pavel Curtis,
	the author, is giving me a hand at deciphering some of this crap... if
	I get anywhere, I'll let you know.

	How much are the ethernet cards going for these days?  (that is if you
	can locate one).

	My understanding is that you don't necessarily need the ethernet card
	to run ethernet oriented software.  For instance, the MUDs above, you
	can set up the infamous 0.0.0.0 loopback... or so I am told.  I have
	never been able to compile something to get that far!

	And there was some chit-chat about people accessing the internet via
	HAM radio.  Some people using 3b1's to do that... where can I get more
	info on this?  I know that the program 'ka9q' was associated with it.
	This sounds very interesting...

	Forrest


-- 
	   -----------	      Forrest Aldrich	      -----------
	   -------     morwyn!forrie@unhtel.unh.edu	  -------
	   ----						     ----
	   --	     VISION GRAPHICS --	Dover, NH - USA	       --
	   ------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.3b1
From: dnichols@ceilidh.beartrack.com (Don Nichols (DoN.))
Subject: Re: tcsh question
Organization: D and D Data, Vienna Virginia
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 00:15:23 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.141150.28545@brtph560.bnr.ca> hruska@bnr.ca (Bob Hruska) writes:
>I am using tcsh on my 7300, it is the following version:

>version tcsh 6.01.00 (Cornell) 12/19/91 options 8b,dl,al,dir


>My question is, why can't I run any /bin/sh scripts from it?
>If I put the #!/bin/sh at the beginning, it doesn't work.

	[ ... ]

>If I do "sh scriptname" it works, but just "scriptname" gives
>me "if: Expression Syntax."

>Any ideas?

	Sure!  tcsh is a csh derivitave which uses a different syntax for
most control structures.  Your "#!/bin/sh" would work in a BSD-derived
system, or other variants as well, but not under this old a SysV.  The
ability to act on '#!' is a special case of magic number recognition done by
the kernel.  The SysV kernel that we have doesn't know about this particular
magic number, so tcsh is left to try to figure out how to deal with the
script, and fails.

	There are some examples of scripts which can tell which shell they
are running under, and take steps to correct it.  Pnews uses:

	": use /bin/sh"

Where the ':' character must be the first character of the file.  (The rest
is not important, except as a flag to the human examining the script.)  This
works because csh won't accept that as a pseudo-comment, but will recognize
it as meaning that the script must be run by /bin/sh.  It is not as general
a solution as '#!' is, but it was developed back when the choices were
/bin/sh or /wherever/csh, so if it wasnt' csh, it *must* be for sh :-)

	There are other ways for a perl script to recognize when it is
running under some other shell and start up the perl interpreter, but it is
even more ugly than this.  There are *some* shells around which will do the
'#!' interpretation on their own, but this only works if they see it before
the wrong other shell does.  Zsh claims to do this, but I haven't gotten it
running smoothly under 3.51m yet.  (It does work well under SunOs 4.1.1,
however, which doesn't need the interpretation, since SunOs is BSD derived.
:-)

	Good Luck
		DoN.
-- 
Donald Nichols (DoN.)     | Voice (Days): (703) 704-2280 (Eves): (703) 938-4564
D&D Data                  |  Email: <dnichols@ceilidh.beartrack.com>
I said it - no one else   |         <dnichols@ceilidh.aes.com>
	--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
From: dnichols@ceilidh.beartrack.com (Don Nichols (DoN.))
Newsgroups: comp.sys.3b1
Subject: Re: What's in Development Set?
Keywords: warning backup UA
Date: 28 Jul 92 01:39:15 GMT
Organization: D and D Data, Vienna Virginia

In article <7526@public.BTR.COM> thad@public.BTR.COM (Thaddeus P. Floryan) writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.150331.6182@mydual.uucp> olson%mydual.uucp@alliant.com writes:

	[ ... ]

>|FULL BACKUP ISN'T.

	[ ... ]

>Heh, heh.
>
>The trick is altering the date AND contents of /etc/.installdate
>
>On my systems (for some time now):
>
>	$ ls -l /etc/.installdate
>	-r--r--r--  1 root    root    29 Jan  1  1970 .installdate
>	$ cat /etc/.installdate
>	Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 PST 1970
>
>If you want to do the same (as root):
>
>	echo "Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 PST 1970" > /etc/.installdate
>	touch -m 0101000070 /etc/.installdate

	Has anyone checked whether find(1) treats time as a signed or
unsigned integer.  (Someone posted a while back that the internal lib
routine in 3.51 treat it as an unsigned integer, but what happens if find
encounters a file given a date past the crucial time in 2038.  Does it
consider it as being *before* the begining of 1970 as some systems do, or
does it consider it as being past 2038.  Perhaps we should set the time to
0x80000000, and use that to ensure that *everything* gets backed up. :-)

-- 
Donald Nichols (DoN.)     | Voice (Days): (703) 704-2280 (Eves): (703) 938-4564
D&D Data                  |  Email: <dnichols@ceilidh.beartrack.com>
I said it - no one else   |         <dnichols@ceilidh.aes.com>
	--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Newsgroups: comp.sys.3b1
From: kak@hico2.westmark.com (Kris A. Kugel)
Subject: Re: tar and chown (was: Re: Cnews and dashes)
Summary: version 7 docs say ONLY root
Reply-To: kak@hico2.westmark.com
Organization: High Country Software
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:07:31 GMT


dnichols@ceilidh.beartrack.com (Don Nichols (DoN.)) writes:
: In article <Brszsw.2o3@hico2.westmark.com> kak@hico2.westmark.com (Kris A. Kugel) writes:
: >I seem to recall, (and have the manuals at home to check)
: >that version 7 unix allowed chown(1) to change file ownership,
: >and so I think that chown(2) for version 7 was NOT reserved for root.

: 	Well, I have the manuals *RIGHT HERE*.  From my copy of _UNIX
: Programmer's Manual_ ( Volume 1), revised and expanded edition, published by
: Holt Rinehart and Winston, Copyright 1983, 1979, Bell Telephone Laboratories,
: Incorporated:
: 
: Chown (1), third paragraph under DESCRIPTION heading:
: 
: 	Only the super-user can change owner or group, in order to simplify
: 	as yet unimplemented accounting procedures.
: 
: Chown (2), DESCRIPTION:
: 
: 	The file whose name is given by the null-terminated string pointed
: 	to by _name_ has its _owner_ and _group_ changed as specified.  Only
: 	the super-user may execute this call, because if users were able to
: 	give files away, they could defeat the (nonexistent) file-space
: 	accounting procedures.

...
  
: 	If you still have access to that v7 system, (and it is still
: running), I suggest that you check the man page for chown(2), and check
: whether chown(1) has been made suid-root.

Don's right, I checked my manual, and it's exactly as he quotes.

It's possible that I was confused with other earlier versions and clones
(I worked on version 6, an early version of Coherent (v7 clone),
System III and V.0)

I THOUGHT I remembered having a problem chown'ing a file
with BSD varients, and I remember it being a rude annoyance,
that I'd not expected to have problems chown'ing.  But I was
on a fair number of flavors of unix around that time (~1983),
so I couldn't say for sure just which one annoyed me so.

Anyhow, my apologies for spreading false information.

Kris A. Kugel	908-842-2707
hico2!kak	kak@hico2.westmark.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.3b1
From: bruce@blilly.UUCP (Bruce Lilly)
Subject: Re: Video Connector
Organization: Bruce Lilly
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 22:26:11 GMT

In article <iZ4eoB3w164w@lorc.UUCP> lowen@lorc.UUCP (Lamar Owen) wrote:
>I have a sick 3B1.  Symptom: no video.  I can boot the machine, hook a
>terminal up to a serial port (two combo cards in this machine), and get a
>login:.

I assume that you've checked the brightness control at the
underside of the left of the monitor case (which may have been
turned to minimum, or may have become intermittent).

>So, my question is: does anyone have the pinout for the motherboard video
>connector?

According to sheet 8 of the schematics in the Reference Manual:
JV-1	Video V sync
JV-2	ground
JV-3	Video H sync
JV-4	ground
JV-5	Video out
JV-6	ground
JV-7	+12 V
JV-8	ground
JV-9	+12 V
JV-10	ground

-- 
	Bruce Lilly		blilly!bruce@Broadcast.Sony.COM
					...uunet!sonyusa!sonyd1!blilly!bruce
Newsgroups: comp.sys.3b1
From: dnichols@ceilidh.beartrack.com (Don Nichols (DoN.))
Newsgroups: comp.sys.3b1
Subject: Re: tar and chown (was: Re: Cnews and dashes)
Date: 28 Jul 92 23:29:59 GMT
Organization: D and D Data, Vienna Virginia

In article <Bs224L.5AG@hico2.westmark.com> kak@hico2.westmark.com writes:

	[ ... ]

>It's possible that I was confused with other earlier versions and clones
>(I worked on version 6, an early version of Coherent (v7 clone),
>System III and V.0)

	You have the advantage on me.  (Perhaps that's why I was able to be
sure of my opinion, since I had fewer variants to confuse the issue.  I've
worked with only: v7 (UniSoft port), the v7-descendant called OS-8 which
runs on the BBN C-70 (with lots of stuff from BSD), the SysVr2 from the 3b1,
a SysVr3 on a Unisys 5000, and BSD variants including various SunOs
versions, and UTek for the Tektronix 6130 (which is mostly BSD).  The only
ones which allow non-root users to chown are the SysV versions.  (I have a
deeply buried SysIII man set, but I don't care enough about when chown
became possible to the average user to dig them out. (I *think* I know where
they are :-)  

>I THOUGHT I remembered having a problem chown'ing a file
>with BSD varients, and I remember it being a rude annoyance,
>that I'd not expected to have problems chown'ing.  But I was
>on a fair number of flavors of unix around that time (~1983),
>so I couldn't say for sure just which one annoyed me so.

	BSD definately doesn't allow user-level chown, as you remmeber (at
least, on any variant that I have tried).  I have absolutely no experience
with v6, so it might have been possible there, as well.  I have seen some
rather tortured family trees of unix, which indicate that some of the later
systems are more derived from v6 than v7, so perhaps v6 did allow it, and it
leapfrogged from v6 to SysII, and there to SysV.

>Anyhow, my apologies for spreading false information.

	You were trying to correct what looked like an error based on your
experience, and you *did* say that you would check your v7 manuals when you
got home.  I could have as easily made a similar mistake (and probably
have), and I hope that next time I do, it is corrected as quickly.
-- 
Donald Nichols (DoN.)     | Voice (Days): (703) 704-2280 (Eves): (703) 938-4564
D&D Data                  |  Email: <dnichols@ceilidh.beartrack.com>
I said it - no one else   |         <dnichols@ceilidh.aes.com>
	--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Newsgroups: comp.sys.3b1
From: dnichols@ceilidh.beartrack.com (Don Nichols (DoN.))
Subject: Re: Video Connector
Organization: D and D Data, Vienna Virginia
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 23:47:14 GMT

In article <iZ4eoB3w164w@lorc.UUCP> lowen@lorc.UUCP (Lamar Owen) writes:
>I have a sick 3B1.  Symptom: no video.  I can boot the machine, hook a
>terminal up to a serial port (two combo cards in this machine), and get a
>login:.
>
>So, my question is: does anyone have the pinout for the motherboard video
>connector?

	Here's what I can get from the Technical Reference Manual schematics:

pin	function
========================================
01	Vertical sync
02	GROUND
03	Horizontal sync
04	GROUND
05	Video out
06	GROUND
07	+12V
08	GROUND
09	+12V
10	GROUND

	I understand that the timing is somewhat different so you may have
problems losing the left edge of your screen with a stock monitor.  I
haven't tried this myself, so I don't know.  There were some reports of an
experiment to get a paper-white monitor working with the system.  I don't
remember any final solution to the timing problem being posted.

	Have you checked the section in the FAQ list on the capacitor
failure which usually takes out the monitor?  The early symptoms usually are
one edge of the screen shrinking.  (So far, I've been lucky enough to not
have seen this problem.)

	Good Luck
		DoN.
-- 
Donald Nichols (DoN.)     | Voice (Days): (703) 704-2280 (Eves): (703) 938-4564
D&D Data                  |  Email: <dnichols@ceilidh.beartrack.com>
I said it - no one else   |         <dnichols@ceilidh.aes.com>
	--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Newsgroups: comp.sys.3b1