HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: XT.JGC@forsythe.stanford.edu (John Claudy)
Subject: Help:  PC/Mac to NTSC signal converters
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:01:45 GMT

I am seeking information (names, addresses, phone numbers,
etc.) on companies that produce PC and/or Mac video to
NTSC signal converters.  I want to able to use a VCR to
record what is being displayed on the computer monitor.
I would also greatly appreciate feedback on the experiences
any of you have had using these devices.  My impression
is that they range in quality in price, but that the two
are not necessarily highly correlated.  Thanks for any
help you can give me and if there is enough interest I
will post a summary of what I learn.

John
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
From: Peter.Gorny@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de (Peter Gorny)
Subject: Re: Moderated Human-Factors Newsgroup
Organization: University of Oldenburg, Germany
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 18:08:58 GMT

denelsbe@washington.cs.unc.edu (Kevbo) writes:

>I like the idea, but dislike the proposed name, and so I counterpropose

>	comp.human-factors.moderated

I would like to second this proposal for further discussion -- in my first
posting I had forgotten the overlap to the other groups.

Peter Gorny



      ________________________________________________________
      Prof. Dr. Peter Gorny
      Informatics Dept. - C. v. Ossietzky University Oldenburg
                 Computer Graphics & Software-Ergonomics Group
-- 
.     ________________________________________________________
      Snail-Mail:    P.O.Box 2503 - D-2900 Oldenburg - Germany 
      Voice:            +49-441-798-2901 or -4521 (Fax: -2155)
      E-Mail:     Peter.Gorny@arbi.Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE 
      ________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
Subject: Laser printer + ozone + small room = ???
From: tgkreimer@miavx2.ham.muohio.edu (Tom Kreimer)
Date: 14 Sep 92 23:10:48 EDT
Organization: Miami University, Hamilton campus

We have a Apple LaserWriter Plus that runs day and night in a small 
room that normally has its door closed. I know laser printers generate
Ozone, as the manual says not to let the fan exhaust blow on you for 
extended periods of time. I just wonder if the 'small room' is just as
bad or worse. No one uses the room for that long. Does anyone know of 
the effects of Ozone and weather newer printers with 'ozone filters' are
effective?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tom Kreimer - Miami University - Oxford, Ohio
tgkreimer@miavx2.ham.muohio.edu 
          miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
From: mike@isgtec.com (Mike Sellers)
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
Subject: Re: Moderated Human-Factors Newsgroup
Date: 6 Sep 92 19:56:26 GMT
Organization: ISG Technologies Inc., Mississauga Ontario

eric theise writes:
| I think this is a good idea.  I'd like to propose that we form a new, 
| moderated newsgroup: sci.ergonomics.  This newsgroup would promote 
| dialogue relating to the discipline known variously as ergonomics, 
| human factors, man-machine interaction, and/or human-system integration.
| Topics could include physical and mental ergonomics, workplace design,
| design of displays and controls, and more.  I imagine this newsgroup
| being devoted to the whole of ergonomics, not just human-computer 
| interface.

Despite the large influx of noise recently, I don't know that we really
need a moderator.  I won't vote against it, but I think we ought to wait
and let things die down before we make any decisions.  

I applaud the idea of trying to be all-inclusive though.  I think we
could find a better name than "ergonomics" too.  I think someone else
suggested sci.interface?  Something like sci.chi would work well too.  

| I'd expect postings to be backed up by data or theory from the literature
| or lab, and not from casual empiricism.  

Then you will have eliminated virtually all postings, and nearly all HCI work
currently being done.  Very few of us have anything *but* casual empiricism
to rely on.  At last year's CHI, in one of the workshops several of us 
agreed that any n > 0 must still be considered good!  Then there's the fact 
that theory in HCI beyond the micro level of things like Fitt's Law is 
virtually non-existant.  This is still an art, not a mature science.  

| Humor, job postings, and 
| commercial announcements would also be welcome.  I imagine a tone similar
| to Bob Jacobson's sci.virtual-worlds.

That's fine, but it would make comp.human-factors and comp.cog-eng doubly
redundant.  Excepting this small flood of invective we've recently experienced,
what need is there for moderating the list?

| And, yes, I'd be willing to serve as moderator.  More discussion would be
| welcome.

Thanks for suggesting this -- your willingness to serve makes it much more
palatable... but I'm still not sure it's necessary.

|   Eric S. Theise                             

--
              Mike Sellers      User Interface Team Leader
           mike@isgtec.com      ISG Technologies, Toronto, Canada
              "Actum ne agas" -- Do not do what has been done.
                         Furare tantum ab Optimis
From: estheise@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (eric theise)
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
Subject: Re: Moderated Human-Factors Newsgroup
Date: 4 Sep 92 23:43:44 GMT
Reply-To: estheise@cs.nps.navy.mil (eric theise)
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA

I think this is a good idea.  I'd like to propose that we form a new, 
moderated newsgroup: sci.ergonomics.  This newsgroup would promote 
dialogue relating to the discipline known variously as ergonomics, 
human factors, man-machine interaction, and/or human-system integration.
Topics could include physical and mental ergonomics, workplace design,
design of displays and controls, and more.  I imagine this newsgroup
being devoted to the whole of ergonomics, not just human-computer 
interface.

I'd expect postings to be backed up by data or theory from the literature
or lab, and not from casual empiricism.  Humor, job postings, and 
commercial announcements would also be welcome.  I imagine a tone similar
to Bob Jacobson's sci.virtual-worlds.

And, yes, I'd be willing to serve as moderator.  More discussion would be
welcome.

We return you now to our regularly scheduled harmful GUIs ...

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
  Eric S. Theise                             
  Human-System Integration Lab               estheise@cs.nps.navy.mil  
  Naval Postgraduate School                    estheise@well.sf.ca.us
  Monterey, CA 93943-5000
From: ml@icarus.lis.pitt.edu (Michael Lewis)
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
Subject: Re: Moderated Human-Factors Newsgroup
Summary: Glass Houses
Date: 7 Sep 92 17:43:39 GMT
Followup-To: ml@icarus.lis.pitt.edu
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


     Until the human factors community shows more concern for the cognitive
effects of GUI's and provides a design optimizing model better suited to
GUI's than GOMS I feel discussion should remain open to all comers.
I regularly assign these flame wars to HCI students along with Baecker &
Buxton and am uncertain which is more beneficial in getting them to think
about real design issues.  A moderated group is fine, but this forum should stay
open..
                   -Mike
From: spitzak@gree.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Spitzak)
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
Subject: Re: Scrolling Across Scrolls
Date: 9 Sep 1992 05:48:41 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: spitzak@gree.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: gree

In article 18c17tINN5a7@overload.lbl.gov, bsherman@s27w007.pswfs.gov (Bradley K. Sherman) writes:

>>However, if a vertical scroll were mechanically feasible, I think it would
>>be preferable, which is why screen documents do so.  When horizontal
>>scrolling is combined with horizontal writing, you are forced to quantize
>>the document into pages so that you can first read down the page and then
>>scroll to the next page (unless you write the document all on one line).
>>...

>Hmmm ...  I'm not sure that quantizing the document into pages is a
>bad thing (ignoring the underlying computational load).  There may
>be advantages to the additional "chunking", but I can't back that up
>with data.  Lines can still be numbered.

Many text formatting programs "chunk".  A good example is PageMaker or
most any other page layout program.  A more straightforward example is
WriteNow, or MicroSoft Word in "page view" (?).

Although certainly useful if the chunks are meaningful (i.e the chunks indicate
which sheet of paper the output will appear on), if you have ever had to type
a large amount of text into one of these things you will have discovered that
"chunking" is seriously handicapped over a linear scrolling.

Bill Spitzak
From: sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk (Stewart Fleming)
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
Subject: Re: Moderated Human-Factors Newsgroup
Date: 7 Sep 92 10:34:22 GMT
Reply-To: sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk
Organization: Dept. Of Computing and Electrical Engineering, Heriot-Watt University, Edinburgh


In article <!-pn+4l.friday@netcom.com>, friday@netcom.com (Carol Anne Ogdin) writes:

>Back in the early 1980s, when I was toiling in the vineyard alone,
>I coined the term "Software Ergonomics."  I meant then (and now)
>the topic to deal with "How do we design/construct software so it
>appeals to the way HUMAN BEINGS process information?"  For that is
>the tool at our disposal:  No matter what elegant and powerful
>hardware we may develop, it is the software where the ultimate
>flexibility resides.

Aha !  So it's YOUR fault then :-)  This is exactly the right
time to get things coordinated as for as software ergonomics
is concerned.  European Community (EC) directives on computers in the
workplace dictate that, when constructing computer systems,

	"the principles of software ergonomics will be applied."

However, there is no attempt to define or even outline what these directives
are - a critical failing since these guidelines will become legally binding
as from January 1993 for new software systems within the EC.

Can I suggest then, the creation of a new hierarchy ?

sci.ergonomics
sci.ergonomics.software
sci.ergonomics.hci

The s.e.s group might serve as a unifying arena for contributions from
comp.software-eng and comp.cog-eng, as well as from here.
[I would hold out for sci.ergonomics.bicycles as well :-)]

I would suggest that the first and last newsgroups be moderated.

>    - Friday -                   "If a miracle happens in your vicinity--
>     friday@well.sf.ca.us                            take credit for it!"
>      (Carol Anne Ogdin)

STF
--
sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk                        ...uknet!cs.hw.ac.uk!sfleming
"Eat what you catch or put it back.  And don't go wasting
   a lot of words when a simple 'yup' will do"  -mid-west fishing ethic
From: sdpage@andersen.co.uk (Stephen Page)
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
Subject: Re: HCI/User Interface Reading List
Keywords: SIGCHI, ACM, HCI, curriculum, syllabus
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:49:46 GMT
Organization: Andersen Consulting (UK Practice)

weh@sei.cmu.edu (Bill Hefley) writes:

>A really good source of this sort of information is the recently published ACM
>SIGCHI Curricula for Human-Computer Interaction (ISBN 0-89791-474-0).

Yes, this is the best source available -- BUT read with caution. I feel that
there are a number of significant weaknesses in the ACM publication, primarily
a lack of attention to the interface styles used in the "real" world at
present (and for the forseeable future).  For example, they do not include
online transaction processing.  See my comments in this forum 
a month or so ago (or email me for a copy); at the time a number of people
agreed with me and a (smaller) number disagreed, chiefly putting forward
the argument that teaching should concern itself more with the future than
with the present, in cases where we all agree that the present is not pleasant.

BTW, I sent my comments to ACM directly but received neither acknowledgement
nor reply. Oh well.
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
From: jaime_guerrero@afs.com
Subject: Re: Scrollbars (was Re: GUIs Considered Harmful)
Reply-To: jaime_guerrero@afs.com
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:32:06 GMT

mark@spider.co.uk (Mark Valentine) writes:
[...]
off topic:
|> not to mention a blatant NeXT plug:
|> NeXT scrollbars are the ONLY good implementation of this I have seen -
|> [...] and the
|> buttons at the ends of the scrollbar are in pairs so if you miss and
|> have to back up, you just move 1/8 inch, not all the way to the other
|> end of the bar.

A very effective behavior of NeXT scrollbar up/down arrow is that they work  
together as a single button: when you click and hold the mouse button down on  
one of them (and the window starts scrolling) and you slide the still-down  
mouse to the other arrow the window reverses and scrolls in the other  
direction.

The interesting thing here is that, unlike any other control I have seen on  
any other GUI, the two arrow controls act together, not as isolated buttons.   
Most mouse-click actuated controls (pushbuttons, radio buttons, checkboxes)  
are activated on the mouse UP on them only if the mouse went DOWN on them, so  
that if you click it appears pushed in (or turns black), but if you move off  
of it with the mouse button still held down, it "pops" back out (or turns  
white again) and the mouse up anywhere else has no effect.  The NeXT scrollbar  
buttons actuate (push in and cause the scrolling) once immediately on the DOWN  
click of the mouse that went down on EITHER of them, and autorepeat (like a  
keyboard key) after the mouse has been down briefly.

The net result, combined with the NeXT behavior of always scrolling the  
CONTENTS of the window in real-time (even when dragging the "elevator") lets a  
user quickly move within a window to find something and reverse when s/he  
overshoots.

Note that this behavior makes sense only because the arrow controls are next  
to each other at the botton (vertical scrollbars) or left (horizontal) of the  
scrollbar; unlike other GUIs.

--
Jaime F. Guerrero                              "How well do we use
Anderson Financial Systems, Inc.                The freedom to choose
Springhouse, PA, USA                            The illusions we create?"
jaime@afs.com          [NeXTmail accepted]      -Timbuk 3
From: jak@cs.brown.edu (Jak Kirman)
Subject: ATM interface design
Reply-To: jak@cs.brown.edu
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Brown University
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 03:16:28 GMT

I tried this in misc.consumers, not knowing of any group more
appropriate.  Several people have pointed me here, and though it doesn't
relate to the harm caused by GUI's, I thought I would try anyway :-)

My bank recently changed its automatic teller machines from the kind
that have a single keypad to the kind that have one normal keypad for
entering numbers etc. and one keypad next to the screen where the
buttons are pointed to by arrows on the screen.

Personally, I find this latter type of ATM an abomination -- I don't
like having to switch from one keypad to another all the time, and I
don't like the fact that sometimes confirmation of a command is done by
pressing "enter" on the main keypad and sometimes it is done by pressing
one of the upper arrows.

What I would like to know is whether there have been any studies on
automatic teller interfaces that might give me an idea as to which of
these two is better for the average user.  Has anyone seen such things?
I would be interested in personal opinions, but by mail please, and I
will summarize if there is interest.  The opinions expressed in this
forum are likely to be heavily biased towards experienced computer
users, and therefore will not be particularly relevant to ATM users in
general, in any case.

I would also be interested to hear what tellers are like in other
countries.  Most of the ones I have seen in the US are similar; a big
flat keypad about a meter off the ground, and either a small adjustable
slit through which you look at the information that is printed, or a big
screen above the keyboard.  The ones that were just installed (made by
NCR) have another very annoying feature: the backplane, on which all the
slots for inserting the bank card, getting out money, etc. is tilted
away from the user, with the bottom further back than the top.  I am not
very tall (1m75, 5 ft 9), but I have to kneel or crouch to read the
writing on the backplane to see which way the card should be inserted.
Unfortunately, I don't remember which company made the earlier ones.  I
am not impressed with NCR's, though.

Thanks! 
                         Jak Kirman                        jak@cs.brown.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beware of programmers who carry solder irons.
                                                               -- Ron Baalke
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors,comp.cog-eng
From: cnquinn@spectrum.cs.unsw.oz.au (Clark Quinn)
Subject: Computing in Teaching HCI?
Reply-To: cnquinn@spectrum.cs.unsw.oz.au (Clark Quinn)
Organization: none
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 03:44:28 GMT


I'm interested in the ways people provide support for practice when
teaching HCI.  I teach an undergrad HCI class for a School of Computer
Science (my background is cognitive psychology), and I have been
concurrently teaching HyperCard (HC) as a programming language that a)
illuminates certain issues in HCI and b) is a reasonable prototyping
tool.   I'm not happy with the other languages that students learn here
for my purpose (Miranda, Modula), and am familiar with the Mac.  I'm
somewhat interested in other tools, but don't want to teach an entire
new language (e.g. I understand that Garnet requires Common Lisp;
SmallTalk is too much to bite off).

I'm in the process of developing a series of activities that gradually
build HC skills, illustrate HC capabilities, highlight particular HCI
issues.   For example, when I teach about the ask and answer commands
in HC, which generate dialog boxes, I might phrase the problem as
handling an error or confirmation on a request to delete a file.  As a
final project, each student develops a prototype interface.  For
example, last session I had them develop the interface to a multi-media
editor.

Currently, there's a request for grant proposals that I might use to
fund the development of some demonstrations and assignments, and
provide the hardware to project the demonstrations on the screen.
However, they request that I know of nothing else similar.  While I
don't, I can't say that my resources are particularly encompassing.
I'd like to request that anyone who can suggest references, describe
their own work, etc, email me (I'll post a summary).  Of course,
discussion is also welcome.  Thanks, -- Clark

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

 _--_|\    Dr. Clark N. Quinn
/      \   School of Computer Science and Engineering	    +61-2-697-4034
\_.--._*   The University of New South Wales            Fax +61-2-313-7987
      v    PO Box 1                                  cnquinn@cs.unsw.oz.au
           Kensington, NSW                             C.Quinn@unsw.edu.au
           AUSTRALIA 2033                                      

           "A California Yankee in the Land of Oz"
From: Peter.Gorny@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de (Peter Gorny)
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
Subject: Re: Moderated Human-Factors Newsgroup
Date: 7 Sep 92 18:00:05 GMT
Organization: University of Oldenburg, Germany

estheise@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (eric theise) writes:
>I think this is a good idea.  I'd like to propose that we form a new, 
>moderated newsgroup: sci.ergonomics.  This newsgroup would promote 
>dialogue relating to the discipline known variously as ergonomics, 
>human factors, man-machine interaction, and/or human-system integration.
>Topics could include physical and mental ergonomics, workplace design,
>design of displays and controls, and more.  I imagine this newsgroup
>being devoted to the whole of ergonomics, not just human-computer 
>interface.
Wonderful - it would help to center more on certain topics and raise
the signal/noise ratio...

Peter Gorny



      ________________________________________________________
      Prof. Dr. Peter Gorny
      Informatics Dept. - C. v. Ossietzky University Oldenburg
                 Computer Graphics & Software-Ergonomics Group
-- 
.     ________________________________________________________
      Snail-Mail:    P.O.Box 2503 - D-2900 Oldenburg - Germany 
      Voice:            +49-441-798-2901 or -4521 (Fax: -2155)
      E-Mail:     Peter.Gorny@arbi.Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE 
      ________________________________________________________
From: spitzak@gree.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Spitzak)
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Date: 12 Sep 1992 03:31:44 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: spitzak@gree.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: gree


>I still haven't seen a terminal emulator that really works
>white-on-black.  It took what, a year, for Stuart to even approximately
>get it right, and it still doesn't do highlighting well.  And none of
>the supplied programs even have the foggiest notion that someone might
>not happen to like black-on-white.  (WriteNow is a particular
>offender.)

This is due to the DPS server on the NeXT providing a single operator with
the usability of "xor" on a 2-level screen.  Unfortunately it flips light
grey and white.  So if you want anything to toggle, select, or highlight, and
you want to be cheap when you update the screen (just drawing the shape to
highlight) you must make your background white or light grey.  If you want
other colors your software gets much more complex.
From: kai@kai.nada.kth.se (Kai-Mikael J-Aro)
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Date: 8 Sep 92 14:03:11 GMT
	<1992Sep6.075748.17935@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu>
	<1992Sep7.143449.27785@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>
	<1992Sep8.071419.28920@Princeton.EDU>
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Originator: kai@kai.nada.kth.se


   Actually, I was trying to say that in situations where a pointer device
   is more appropriate than a keyboard, something that doesn't disrupt the
   use of the keyboard would be better than a mouse.

Well, what about the pointing stick, as developped at Thomas J Watson
by Ted Selker et al?  A little force joystick between the G and H
keys.  Moves your cursor and you never have to lift your hands off the
keyboard.  

There's a demonstration of it on SIGCHI video from either '90 or '91
(don't have it handy now) and a paper in Proceedings of Interact '90
(Diaper et al) "Force-to-Motion Fucntions for Pointing" by J.D.
Rutledge and T. Selker

A mouse isn't the single existing way to move a pointer around... 
-- 
Kai-Mikael Jdd-Aro	email:  kai@nada.kth.se	    "Don't win, don't lose."
IPLab	 		voice:  +46 8 790 91 05		-- Yoshigasaki-sensei
NADA, KTH		fax:    +46 8 790 09 30
S-100 44  Stockholm	telex:  812 6154 7052 SICS
SWEDEN			teletex:2401-812 6154 7052=SICS
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors,comp.org.acm