HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Looking for milk, cheese and icecream from contented cows
Date: 15 Sep 92 12:55:31 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

ldh@svl.cdc.com (Lawrence D. Hare) wrote:
> Does anyone know of a source of information whereby I can locate dairy
> products derived from "contented cows"? I define this to mean dairy
> animals that live the way they were designed to live...
> In the bay area one can drive around and see, what appears to be,
> contented cows apparently happily munching in the fields. I grew up in
> the south of England and there is a distinct similarity. So I wonder if I
> cannot find a local farm which provides dairy products without the
> pressure, drugs, hormones and I dread to think what else.
> Which leads me to my second question. I miss two things from England:
> Beer and Stilton. I can get both these items here but I ask the same
> question about the cheese, is this produced from happy British cows?

I can't answer exactly that question, but do know something that may be
related: no cow cheese or butter in the UK is produced organically - all
organic milk is consumed as milk. (This from a Scottish organic dairy
farmer).  There is likely to be a correlation between organic methods and
kind ones, but not a complete one (i.e. a farmer could well refrain from
gratuitous cruelty while still using artificial fertilizers).

There is also going be an uncomfortable correlation between free-range
raising and extensiveness, which means ecological destructiveness.  Those
contented cows you're seeing in the US only survive because agribiz is
mining aquifers at far beyond their rate of replenishment and salinating
hundreds of thousands of square miles.  In a century the entire US cattle
country will be a salt desert.

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
From: zeke@reed.edu (Zeke Koch)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new.
Date: 9 Sep 92 00:06:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Sep9.000643.12616
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

amacdona@ac.dal.ca writes:

>	I never thought about the connection between meat consumption 
>and sugar metabolism, but now that you mention it, I get extremely 
>"hyper" from sugar, especially on an empty stomach.  I don't know if this was
>always the way I was or if this is just since I stopped eating meat.
>Also, other substances - alcohol, caffeine... seem to have a big effect 
>from a small amount.  Does anyone else share this experience?
>
>- Allison

Well I don't know about the alcohol or caffeine (never did do much of
the former and do far too much of the latter to notice what should be
a small difference) but I do have a much lower tolerance for sugar.

I think that meat "fills you up" more, whatever that means (remember
that bloated feeling after meals?).  As a result drugs effect you less
than when you have a "lighter" load in your stomach.  Meat may be so
hard to digest that the acids (or whatever) break down the chemicals.
biologists help me I'm floundering :-)

Zeke

-- 
                           zeke@reed.edu 
"NeXT has made it possible for Tiny Tim to over-extend himself and buy
a Ferrari for the price of a Hundai and now Tiny Tim is pissed because
the gas station attendant won't sell him gas for 3 cents a gallon."
From: nuke@reed.edu (Bill Newcomb)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Do vega or vegi eat fries in McDonald or Kentucky?
Keywords: fries
Date: 7 Sep 92 03:54:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Sep7.035435.6247
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Sep6.233417.25484@muddcs.claremont.edu> omitchel@jarthur.claremont.edu (Ocie Mitchell) writes:

>I don't usually go to these places so I don't know about the oil/grease/
>whatever that they are fried in.  What I usually try to do is convince my
>friends to go to a taco bell, or some place like that.  Especially if it

And the ten dollar question:
Does taco bell *ever* use beef tallow in the preparation of its beans?
I used to eat there an awful lot, and was a bit shocked when I heard this,
although I knew that such an addition is not unheard of. What have people
heard? (I haven't needed to fastfood lately, or I would have asked them)

nuke
--
~/.oo
From: giber@pollux (Carolyn Giberson)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: the link between vitamin D and sunshine
Date: 15 Sep 92 21:43:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: athena.1992Sep15.214353.12165
Organization: University of Georgia


In response to a posting about calcium/sunshine/vitamin D:
Vitamin D is not "in" sunshine.  Sunlight converts the
precursor to vitamin D to actual vitamin D in the body.

Carolyn Giberson
University of Georgia
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: omitchel@jarthur.claremont.edu (Ocie Mitchell)
Subject: Re: Do vega or vegi eat fries in McDonald or Kentucky?
Keywords: fries
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 23:34:17 GMT

In article <92Sep6.183840edt.102@orasis.vis.toronto.edu> vlee@vis.toronto.edu (Victor Yuencheng Lee) writes:
>Hello,
>
>I am a vegi, sometimes I wonder whether I could order a french fry in 
>MacDonald or Kentucky when I am out with some other friends because I 
>don't think the oil they use is "untaminated".
>Once I found a piece of chicken fried chicken meat served together with
>the fries I ordered.
>
>Does anyone have similar experience?
>Then, what could I order in MacDonald or Kentucky? or
>I should not buy their foods because they also sell meat hamburgs?
>

I don't usually go to these places so I don't know about the oil/grease/
whatever that they are fried in.  What I usually try to do is convince my
friends to go to a taco bell, or some place like that.  Especially if it
is a meal time, because fries don't make a good meal.  Besides, I'd rather
support a restauraunt that offers veg. meals, not just fries, which are the 
junk of junk food.
Ocie Mitchell

----------------------------------------------+-------------------------------
``What do you think sirs?''  -Joel (mst3k)    | do not write above this line
----------------------------------------------+------------------------------- 
   __             _ _ _                       | Ocie Mitchell
  / ')           ' ) ) )  _/_    /      /) /) | omitchel@jarthur.claremont.edu
 /  / _. o _      / / / o /  _. /_  _  // //  | Q:is that your real name? 
(__/ (__(_(<_    / ' (_(_(__(__/ /_(<_(/_(/_  | A:yes, it is my real name.
----------------------------------------------+-------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: tek@ms.uky.edu (Thomas E. Kunselman)
Subject: Gnochi recipe request
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 21:34:12 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

 I have this gnochi stuff whenever I visit relatives in eastern Pennsylvania.
I guess it is some sort of patato dough made into balls and served in a 
tomato sauce.

I have never seen it anywhere else.  Does anyone on here have a recipe 
for it?

Thanks!
-- 
Thomas Kunselman                               {rutgers,uunet}!ukma!tek 
Office of Planning & Assessment          	bitnet: vaatek@ukcc.bitnet
#8 Administration Building			internet:tek@ms.uky.edu
University of Kentucky
From: mark3@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Mark Magennis)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: non-leather shoes from China
Date: 9 Sep 92 14:39:24 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

I bought some Sidi cycling shoes recently because they are made from a material
called Lorica which looks very leather-like and has (or so I'm told) all good 
leather properties plus a few extra of its own (scratch and stain resistant, 
doesn't stretch over time, slightly more waterproof). There is at least one
other synthetic alternative used in cycling shoes and I've heard that a lot of
other sports shoes are going this way. Nike make huge numbers of non-leather
shoes for instance. I would guess that these materials will start creeping their
way into normal shoes and boots too, especially since they're easier than 
leather to work with. I wonder what the price differences are now and whether
this is likely to change. My cycling shoes were no more expensive than 
comparable leather ones, i.e. bloody astronomical!

And they come from Italy, home of all decent footwear (so my friend says, and
she's got more shoes than Imelda Marcos).

Mark
-- 
___________________________________________________________
mark3@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk		Mark Magennis
				Dept. of Computing Science
				The University, Glasgow, UK
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar)
Subject: Vegetarian restaurants in Ann Arbor MI?
Organization: UTCS Campus Access
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 01:29:03 GMT


Would some kind soul point me at one or two vegan or vegetarian restaurants
near the university in Ann Arbor Michigan?

I seem to recall a posting that listed some of the vegetarian restaurants
in Ann Arbor.  Did someone save it?  Could I get a copy please? 

Thanks,
Tom
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: cansoori@athena.mit.edu (Christina Ansoorian)
Subject: Re: how accurate is your sense of smell/taste?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 08:32:31 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.003017.6751@menudo.uh.edu> mece1xg@Rosie.UH.EDU writes:
>
[stuff deleted about trip to Bennnigans]
>
>well, as i went down to take that 1st sip, i smelled an....odor.
>it smelled VERY MUCH like bacon bits.  however, to see if i was
>going crazy or not (we had given the waitress EXPLICIT instructions
>about no meat, chicken, fish, etc.) i decided to wait.  the next
>thing i know, my veggie-buddy is giving me this really strange
>expression (actually, it was one of total disgust) and asked me
>if i had tried the soup.  i acknowldged that i had SMELLED it and
>it smelt like bacon.
>
>well, by this time, the others around us decided to check for themselves.
>each and everyone one of them took a whiff, and made a decision.
>here's the incredible part.  NONE of them said there was any meat,
>or meat-type products in the soup!!  we (the 2 veggies) kept INSISTING
>there was something, but we couldn't convince them.  then, the
>waitress came back WITH THE COOK!  they both informed us that
>there was absolutely NO MEAT in the soup!
>
>i was/am perplexed by their tenacity.  has anyone else had this,
>or similar type problem?  or, am i REALLY going crazy?
>
>peace,
>-purna

I ordered a veggie omelete in our school cafeteria a couple of weeks
ago.  I took one bite, and it DEFINITELY tasted fishy to me.  My 
meat-eating SO had a taste, said he wasn't sure, and recommended that
I return it.  I did, the cook insisted that it couldn't possibly be
fishy, and made me another.  This one also tasted fishy.  I was really
hungry, so I decided that I must be having delusions, and ate it anyway.
Later on, I felt really sick, which of course could have been a 
psychological reaction, but who knows.  

Christina


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 03:50:09 -0400 
From: "David F. McWade" <dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Book: Popular Nutritional Practices, by Jack Yetiv



>I loved the section on Fit for Life.  Lots of hilarious quotes from
>Diamond's book and a little info on Mr. Diamond's "doctorate in
>nutritional science from the American College of Health Science in
>Austin, Texas."  A quote from the book:

>"... [T]his institution is not even allowed to grant degrees in Texas
>-- the degrees have to come out of Mexico...  Furthermore, Texas >has
>required this correspondence "school" to remove the word "college"
>from its title....  [All] that is necessary to get a 'doctorate in
>nutritional science' is the payment of $1250 and the taking of a
>series of tests consisting of open-book questions.... [T]he only
>people that have flunked this program  'are people that really >couldn't
>read and write that well'"

It is unfortunate that Diamond takes such a hysterical tone in "Fit For
Life".  If he calmly made his point such as John Robbins does, he would
gain a good deal more public legitimacy.

Dave
From: studentcoord@igc.apc.org (Alex Brozan)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Veg Facts Online?
Date: 14 Sep 92 01:01:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1451200008:000:369
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!studentcoord    Sep 13 18:01:00 1992




Hi... 

Does anyone have some of the common list of vegetarian facts (from Earthsave,
Food First, Veg. Times, etc.) online?  Is an FTP site for this conf or
a FAQ with some of these facts?  


IN addition, does anyone have the phone # of, or even an email address
for Earthsave??

please e-mail directly as i check this conf infrequently.


alex
studentcoord@igc.org
From: thdyc@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Howard Dyckoff)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Las Vegas restaurants needed!
Date: 16 Sep 92 03:33:33 GMT

In article <15143@mindlink.bc.ca>, Christine_Code@mindlink.bc.ca (Christine Code) writes:
|> Hello!
|> 
|> I'll be going to Las Vegas in a few weeks, and I need to know where I can get
|> good vegetarian meals.  (Vegan, really.)
|> 
|> Anybody know of good veggie places to eat in Las Vegas?   I'll be at the mercy
|> of restaurants for several days, so I'm eager to hear your suggestions.
|> 
|> Please post or send me e-mail if there's a place you can recommend.
|> 
|> Thanks!
|> 
|> 
|> --
|> 
|> ==========================================================================
|> Christine Code                 *
|>                                *  "A bear, however hard he tries,
|> Vancouver, B.C, CANADA         *   Grows tubby without exercise."
|> Christine_Code@MindLink.bc.ca  *                   -A.A. Milne
|> ==========================================================================


Great idea!!

I'll be in L.V. for Comdex, as will many of us. 

Let's see some postings.  And also a guess on the distance 
from the L.V. Convetion Center.
From: red_trek@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Fat and soy products
Date: 14 Sep 92 15:28:20 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

Leslie  asked about the fat content of tofu and soy milk, etc --

It *is* possible to make soy milk (and tofu, I think?) low in
fat, or even fat free; if the products you buy are truly low
in fat then you have been lucky enough to stumble across a 
store that actually has low-fat versions of these products on stock.

But be careful:  one gram of fat has nine calories (one gram of
protein and one gram of carbohydrates have four calories each; er,
outside the U.S. I think that's kilocalories).  Something that's 
"96% fat free" by _weight_ could be getting a good 36% of its
calories from fat.
From: warwick@cs.uq.oz.au (Warwick Allison)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: marrow recipes?
Date: 7 Sep 92 23:58:04 GMT
Reply-To: warwick@cs.uq.oz.au

jll@doc.ic.ac.uk (Janice ) writes:

>has anyone got a good marrow recipe, especially
>a stuffed one!


The best recipe I know for stuffed marrow is exposure to high levels
of gamma radiation.


--
Warwick
(sorry, couldn't resist)
--
  _-_|\      warwick@cs.uq.oz.au            /Disclaimer:
 /     * <-- Computer Science Department,  /  
 \_.-._/     University of Queensland,    /      void (if removed)
      v      Brisbane, Australia.        /
From: howard@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: what's all this fuss about calcium?
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:52:20 GMT
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Sep13.212230.13218@cgrg.ohio-state.edu>, leslie@cgrg.ohio-state.edu (Leslie Bishko) writes:
> 
> I get calcium from greens, tofu and soymilk, all of which I eat at 
> least once a day.  And, I take a calcium supplement, (I forget how
> many mg.) in the morning and at night.  I am probably getting too
> much, yes?  I drink gallons of water, so I'm not going to dwell on
> the kidney stone thing, but I also drink way too much coffee, which
> may be leaching some calcium from my system.
> 
> Comments anyone?
> 
> Also, I'm suprised to hear so many saying that tofu and soymilk are
> high in fat!  All the soy product labels I read show low-fat, high 
> protein and high calcium percentages.
> 

The RDA for calcium for women is 800 mg. Some studies have recommended
that women get up to 1200 mg, but studies have shown that too much 
protein (such as 80 grams) tend to inhibit the ability to absorb
calcium. The RDA for protein for adult women is about 36 to 40 grams a
day. So if you don't consume more than 40 grams of protein a day, 800
mg of calcium should be more than adequate. Jane Brody, in "Jane Brody's
Nutrition Book", who advocates a low-meat, low-dairy diet, recommends
800 mg. 

There is a brand of soymilk that is calcium enriched- it is WestSoy plus, 
which says it has 30% of the RDA (I don't know what the figure is that
it is using, but I would suspect it is closer to the 1200 number than the
800, making it about 400 mg per 8 ounces). I do use that, and then assume
I'll get about 400 more from the rest of the food (green vegetables such
as broccoli are high in calcium). Also some orange juice is calcium 
enriched. Or just take a calcium supplement. Note the most 1 a day
tablets do not contain calcium. The supplement need not be more than
400-500 mg a day. 

I think it is much more useful to count grams of fat consumed in a day
rather than the percent content of each food. That is, it is okay to 
consume a high-fat food by calories if not too much of it is consumed
and low-fat foods by calories complement it. I try for around 30-40 
grams of fat a day. 40 grams of fat * 9 calories per gram is 280 calories
in fat, which is about 20% of a 1500 calorie diet. 

If you count the things that are obviously fat, this is not too hard to 
do. 1 glass of soymilk counts 5 grams. 1 tablespoon of margarine or oil
counts 10 grams. About 4 ounces of tofu (1/2 of a small package) counts 
10 grams (there are varying amounts of water in different brands of tofu- 
read the label). If you stay away from packaged foods (such as ready-made 
spaghetti sauce!), it isn't too hard to consume moderate amounts of these 
products and yet stay under the 40 gram limit.  

-Mary Howard
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin)
Subject: Sauteed Green Beans and Red Pepper with Garlic and Herbs 
Keywords: recipe
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 03:57:57 GMT


This recipe taken from a Wednesday edition of The New York Times is 
so delicious I *must* share it, especially since the beans and red peppers 
are plentiful, good, and cheap right now.  You can substitute olive oil 
for the butter, and eliminate the cheese entirely without damaging the 
dish. 


3 pounds tender, young green beans
Salt
3 medium sweet red peppers 
6 tablespoons unsalted butter 
4-1/2 tablespoons minced garlic 
1 cup grated imported Parmesan cheese 
1/2 cup chopped fresh basil (preferred) or 2 tablespoons dried 
Freshly ground pepper 
=== 
Wash and trim beans.  Bring 5 quarts water to boil in large heavy saucepan
and add salt.  Add beans and cook, uncovered, until tender, 8 to 10 minutes. 
Drain beans in colander and rinse them; under cold running water.  Pat dry... 
(Beans can be prepared several hours ahead.  wrap in kitchen towel and then 
plastic wrap and refrigerate.)

To prepare peppers, remove stems, seeds and membranes and discard.  Cut 
peppers into 1/4-inch thick strips.  (Peppers can be prepared several 
hours ahead.  Cover and refrigerate.) 

Heat butter in large heavy skillet over medium-high heat.  When hot, add 
red peppers and saute, tossing and stirring, until softened, 4 to 5 
minutes.  Add garlic and cook 1 minute more.  Make certain beans are dry 
and add them to pan.  Stir and cook several minutes until beans are 
heated.  If necessary, add addition butter when sauteeing. 

Add cheese and basil.  Toss and cook 1 minute more.  Season to taste 
with more salt if necessary and generous amount of pepper.  Serve hot. 
Makes 8 servings.  

Note:  Try to use fresh basil, if possible.  Taste is markedly better 
than the dried in this dish. 
B

==== 
NOTES:  I made a half recipe, which barely served four adults as a 
side dish (barely *satisfied*: everyone wanted more; this is Really Good).. 
I steamed the green beans instead of boiling, just because the steamer 
was out on the stove already and it was easier.  I used about 1 T of butter 
and another of olive oil.  Fresh basil this time of year, of course. 

It's also a beautiful dish. 

--Barbara
From: masonp@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Peter Mason)
Subject: Re: Do vega or vegi eat fries in McDonald or Kentucky?
Keywords: fries
Organization: Dept. of Physics & Astronomy, McMaster University
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 14:37:24 GMT


In article <1992Sep6.233417.25484@muddcs.claremont.edu> omitchel@jarthur.claremont.edu (Ocie Mitchell) writes:

>I don't usually go to these places so I don't know about the oil/grease/
>whatever that they are fried in.  What I usually try to do is convince my
>friends to go to a taco bell, or some place like that....


There is another point to keep in mind here too.  MacDonald's is (I'm pretty sure)
the single largest slaugtherer of animals in the world.  By buying *anything* there
you are supporting them.  These places tend to have suggestion boxes, so anytime
I'm there with friends, I don't eat anything and I fill in one of the little cards,
recommending that they start serving vegetarian foods.  When there is enough demand,
they will.

peace,


Peter
-- 
Peter Mason
masonp@nukie.physics.mcmaster.ca
Hamilton, Ontario (ack! pfffthpt!), Canada
-displaced Nova Scotian
From: Alan.Holmes@brunel.ac.uk (Alan J Holmes)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: manure
Date: 8 Sep 92 13:09:13 GMT
Organization: Brunel University, West London, UK

In article <1992Sep1.145933.13165@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> masonp@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Peter Mason) writes:

>Anyway, this was a new one to me.  I did mention that we wouldn't NEED all this
>damn food if we weren't feeding it to the livestock, but he was clinging to his
>claim.  As well, surely the manure from dairy farms and chickens used for 
>producing eggs would be sufficient for fertilizer if, in fact, all this fertilizer
>is needed.

Certainly the manure from the dairy farms is be useful, but in order
to maintain a dairy (milk producing) herd one has to create more cattle,
what do you do with these animals?  The choice is one of two,
either fatten them for the market (for us to eat), or just to kill
them.

Chicken manure I believe is too strong to use directly on the land.

Regards

Alan Holmes
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: amarcin@athena.mit.edu (Bret Aarden)
Subject: Re: Do vega or vegi eat fries in McDonald or Kentucky?
Keywords: fries
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 04:29:54 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.035435.6247@reed.edu> nuke@reed.edu (Bill Newcomb) writes:
>And the ten dollar question:
>Does taco bell *ever* use beef tallow in the preparation of its beans?
>I used to eat there an awful lot, and was a bit shocked when I heard this,
>although I knew that such an addition is not unheard of. What have people
>heard? (I haven't needed to fastfood lately, or I would have asked them)

I've stopped at a couple of Taco Bells when I had a real craving for beans,
and yessiree indeed, they told me they put the lard in. Taco Johns does not.
In fact, I don't recall anything on the Taco Bell menu that was vegetarian...

It still leaves the issue of supporting meat-menu-based restaurant chains,
though.

-Bret.