HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SKS Slam fire
Date: 23 Jan 93 01:55:28 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <1993Jan22.000901.28728@igor.tamri.com>, donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin) writes:
# In article <9301202032.AA13947@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM>
# fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix) writes:
# #They said that he one-handedly operated the bolt, the rifle began
# #firing, etc.  The SKS appears to have been sitting on the table
# #in front of the man.  The nearest I can figure (having shot at the
# #range in question) is that he pulled the bolt and let the butt of
# #the rifle press against his upper leg or hip. I can't imagine why
# #he though this would be safe to do, though.
# 
# A fellow gun lover from Santa Cruz read in the paper there that the
# guy killed at Los Altos Rod & Gun had dinked around, trying to make
# his SKS fire full auto...that it did but didn;t STOP when he let go of
# the trigger.
# 
# Anyone else hear anything like that?
# 
#    don

I've read the same in the paper at the time the incident happened.  
I've since been informed by sources with more detailed knowledge than
the media that this isn't true.


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"When freedom destroys order, order will destroy freedom." -- Eric Hoffer
Not a goal, just a statement of reality.
From: ses@hpfcls.fc.hp.com (Steve Speer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: reloading for SKS
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:16:45 GMT

I have my SKS on order now, and I picked up a bunch of primed brass at a gun
show last weekend.  I'm looking to reload primarily to improve accuracy.  This
could be a good coyote round (yes?) for 100yd or less shots.  A slow moving
.30 cal round shouldn't expand too badly, even in soft point.  I have better
guns for this purpose, but am wanting to try this one anyway.

My question is:

What is the difference between the .308, .310 and .311 dia. bullets.  I believe
the SKS is supposed to shoot the .310, but what about the others.  Will they
still function safely and reliably?  I have a lot of .308 bullets that I would
like to load for this thing if they would still fire well, but I won't try it
until I hear from someone who has done it (or really knows what they're talking
about, so be convincing).

Secondly, I have a lot of H4895 that I wouldn't mind burning up in this thing.
None of my manuals give data for the 7.62 x 39.  Anyone care to offer what
they have or are using.  

Finally, I'm looking for sources for loaded ammo.  I want to buy on the order
of 5-10 cases (myself and several friends).  Definitely non-corrosive.  I heard
someone say that there are "close range only" versions, presumably loaded to
lower velocities.  Is that true?  Anyone clocked this stuff or is that just
speculation.  I'd like to get some softpoints (instead of FMJ), but would like
to hear best sources on prices for both types.  Stripper clips and/or real
brass would of course be pluses I might pay a tad more for.  The deal posted
here last week has expired and no longer includes free delivery, so if you
know of one, please speak up!!

Thanks for all info!!

	-Steve
From: parisboy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Toneo!)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 9 X 18 / 9mm Makarov ammo
Date: 23 Jan 93 15:59:30 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

Hi everyone,

I have a question about the 9mm Makarov ammo. There is a shop near my house
that sells a 50 cartridge box of 9mm Makarov for $9.25. I was wondering
if that was competitive with what I can get it for in Shotgun news, or any
other place??? And how does that compare to other 9mm ammo, is it cheaper,
more expensive, or about right?

Please e-mail so as not to take up unnecessary bandwith, thanks for your
replies in advance!

Tony
parisboy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
From: DHORTON@ENGLISH.AS.UA.EDU (David A. Horton)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Synthetic Stocks
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:51:14 GMT
Organization: University of Alabama English Dept.

I've had a good experience w/ HS Precision synthetic stocks. Nice to
deal with, prompt and courteous. I cracked a stock once and called
them. They instructed me to send it ASAP and they'd replace it, no
questions asked. I recieved it three weeks later, almost to the day!
Only cost to me was paying for UPS shipping to them.
From: weed@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (daniel weed 283-4162)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ruger M77 MkII triggers
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:24:54 GMT



At the 1993 SHOT Show I talked to the Volquartsen's (my most humble
apologies to them if I have misspelled their name), and handled a Ruger Mk II
in which they had installed their "accurizing Kit", which includes
a new trigger, sear, hammer, and mainspring.  The retail cost
for this kit is around $70.

The trigger pull was the nicest I've ever felt.  You could just place
your finger on the trigger, and mentally fire the gun as if it were linked
directly to your brain.

I had a nice discussion with Karen V., and she assured me that the kit
was a pure drop in, no smithing would be required.  Anyone who could 
take down the Mk II to that level could install it, although she says the 
mainspring requires 3 hands to install.

My limited experience with drop in kits for the 1911 is that everything
will require at least a little fitting since each gun is slightly
different, and the manufacturers of the drop in parts make them just
slightly oversize, in the right places, to assure they will fit in all
guns. 

So, my question to the net is: have any of you ever tried this kit?
What do you think?

The Volquartsen's also make a compensator for the bull barrel Mk II's
that screws in where the front sight would be.  It is well made, and 
has an "O" ring to seal the comp against the barrel.  Karen says
it essentially eliminates what muzzle jump there is, and also increases
the sight radius.  I think it retails for around $40.


I think CLARK makes a trigger kit also (or else you send in your 
Mk II and they modify it).  It's supposed to be cheaper but also 
quite good. Anyone tried it?


-- Dan

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Weed                                       weed@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov
McDonnell Douglas Space Systems Co. - Houston
              "My comments are my own, not my employer's"
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Norinco 1911 vs Springfield
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:39:30 GMT
Organization: Circle 'C' Shellfish Ranch, Shores-of-the-Pacific, California

In article <25JAN199309213290@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov> smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan) writes:
#<1jk230INN1n6@tamsun.tamu.edu>, hmueller@orca.tamu.edu (Hal Mueller) writes...
##The consensus of private responses to my query seems to be that the Norinco
##price was outrageously high, and that the Springfield prices were somewhat
##low.  The Norinco becomes a reasonable choice only if it's sold at a much 
##better price ($300 or less, new). 
#
#At the last show that I attended, the Norincos were priced at $270.

A local FFL holder has told me that his price was $250.  He wanted
something like $25 DROS (a peculiar California fee)  + 15 shipping + 
15% + 8.25% Ca. Sales tax to get one for me ...  
call it $290 * 1.15 * 1.0825  (yes, the sales tax got charged on the
lot of it, including the DROS fee ) for a total of $361. 

Now arn't you glad you don't live in California?  

I didn't get one from him ...

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
From: unislc@unislc.slc.unisys.com (David Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Non-Res. CCW Requirements in Pa.?
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:02:45 GMT
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC

#From article <1993Jan21.005128.18907@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, by pdalidow@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Pete Dalidowicz):
# As to your article asking whether you wife from Ohio needs a permit to have a 
# gun in Pa. I believe not.  The abbreviated law I have in print states " A 
# license is required to carry a pistol in any vehichle or CONCEALED on or about
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Does this sound like one of those laws ment to make it difficult to buy a gun
because you cannot legally take it home without a permit?

# the person.  NO PERMIT TO PURCHASE OR POSSESS A PISTOL IS REQUIRED."  Therefore
# if it is your own property there is no problem.  If your really unsure contact
# the sheriff's office of that county.
# 
-- 
 David Williams 
 Unisys Corp.
 dlw@unislc.slc.unisys.com
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: To Drop Or Not To Drop ( was: Re: To buy or not to buy ? )
Date: 28 Jan 93 16:09:16 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:

#  Maybe - do take her to the range.  Perhaps she can see the plain
#enjoyment of shooting/plinking if she tries.  Make some analogies
#between a security alarm and locking the house or car - see if she
#can connect up what *she* considers sensible security precautions
#with what you are doing.  Be calm, rational and throw back her own
#reasons at her - is she saying that one is more free is one lets
#burglars have easy access to one's home?

	While this tactic generally, in my experience, does not work
when faced with what we've termed "women's logic," an initial
confrontation followed by a few days of respite have been known to
work.  My own girlfriend and I have done this a few times.

	We're both what might be described as slobs.  One such
confrontation revolved around setting stuff on chairs and things
where people might wish to sit down.  She had placed a piece of
plate glass, wrapped in a towel, on a chair.  I sat on it.  I
broke the thing.  Her logic was that I should look at where I sit.
My logic was that it had no business there, and if you set something
on a chair it will be sat upon.  The next day, I gathered all the
sewing needles I found in the carpet, on the chairs, on the tables,
and the like and hammered them into the bedroom door at just above
eye level and walked around wearing safety glasses.  She got the
point of the demonstration.

	Perhaps such a demonstration need be made again?  When you
drive somewhere, leave the windows open and then lock the doors
of the car.  Make it a point to unbuckle your seat belt after you
are 2.3 miles from home, or wherever most accidents happen.  If
you ride a motorcycle, put on a helmet and then ride off wearing
a t-shirt, shorts, and thongs (by all means have a cache of leathers
hidden in your saddlebags!).  Chances are she'll be agast at this
complete disregard for safety.  Then, make your point.

	Being a motorcycle rider of some twenty years, I have noticed
that, like guns, the motorcycle is to blame, not the rider or the
idiot driver that runs into him.  Use this.  When she's driving,
take the opportunity to point out every motorcycle to her.  Also
point out good escape routes should the truck ahead of her be involved
in an accident.  Yes, this will annoy the bejeebers out of her.  In
time, she'll understand that her safety is dependent solely upon
herself, and hopefully thank you for the experience.  Or she may
dump you as some sort of psuedo-Rambo.  It's hard to tell.

	Just some things that have worked in the past.

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<     USENET: Post to exotic, distant machines.  Meet exciting,      >
<                 unusual people.  And flame them.                   >
From: petekunz@iiic.ethz.ch (Peter John Kunz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: good, bad & ugly
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:50:47 GMT
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH

In article <1l_syhp@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
#dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) writes:
#
##-> 3. scariest looking (i.e. most intimidating) gun (not necessarily the
##-> most nasty, just the most nasty looking)
#
##        Franchi SPAS-12 with folding stock.  I think there was even a
##        bayonet option for it once.
#
#Nah, has to be the A-10 Warthog.  Well.... You didn't say anything about
#whether you could hold it or not.... or whether it had wings or not... :-)
#
#4. New catagory.  The scariest looking but utterly worthless gun.
#
#A tie between 
#
##        Franchi SPAS-12 with folding stock.  
#
#And 
#
#	the Cobray Street Sweeper.
#

hmm, what about a minigun, as seen in predator?


cu
-pete



-- 
Peter J. Kunz	Vogesenstr. 60	4106 Therwil	Switzerland
petekunz@iiic.ethz.ch	pkunz@amiga.physik.unizh.ch
From: petekunz@iiic.ethz.ch (Peter John Kunz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: The brush (WAS: Cleaning a Glock 17)
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:24:52 GMT
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH

In article <1jq04aINNrvu@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
#
#When a gun is really leaded, I don't mind plying the brush a bit; but 
#then I see these writeups in magazines and catalogs that say things like, 
#"pass the brush down the bore six times" and I think, "only six?"  Such
#recommendations have got me to wondering now whether I'm beating the hell
#out of my bores out of ignorance...

in the army we were taight 50 strokes per rifle barrel.
on my pistols, i do about 10-20.



cu
-pete



-- 
Peter J. Kunz	Vogesenstr. 60	4106 Therwil	Switzerland
petekunz@iiic.ethz.ch	pkunz@amiga.physik.unizh.ch
From: rigg@adtaz.sps.mot.com (Dana Rigg)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: gun in an apartment
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:42:07 GMT

-> I just bought a gun recently and I am going to pick it up after the two 
-> weeks waiting period. I have a problem of finding a safe place to keep 
-> my gun in my apartment. There is no gate in the apartment complex and
-> one could break into anyone of it with simply a screwdriver. I wonder 
-> if anybody out there has the same problem. Please help.

If you are talking about storage when you are not home and the gun is,
a good place is behind the air conditioning vent (assuming you
have air conditioning).  Few thieves remove the vents when robbing
a place.

Dana Rigg
Chandler, AZ
rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com
From: fsjbr@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SPAS-12 trivia questionDOWN
Date: 25 Jan 93 01:04:25 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

In article <199301220331.AA12224@vela.acs.oakland.edu>, vtessier@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Vince Tessier) writes:
# There seems to be fairly consistent opinion that the Franchi SPAS-12
# is one of the ugliest/scariest guns around ... this brought to mind 
# a recent discussion with my usually-reliable source (for whom I'm
# attempting to arrange inexpensive Internet access).
# 
# What's the hook on the SPAS-12 stock for?  It's usually thought of
# as a device to allow using this enormously heavy shotgun one-handed,
# but that's not its principal purpose.
# 
# Is it for hanging over the back seat of your car ?
From: chris@MorningStar.Com (Chris Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .44 Magnum Desert Eagle info request
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:51:47 GMT
Organization: Morning Star Technologies

In article <9301230312.AA22980@zippy.cs.UMD.EDU> 3196314@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Vic) writes:
#
#I would like to solicit the net for your opinions on a .44 magnum Desert
#Eagle.  A friend of mine knows of someone who may be selling theirs
#for about $800 Cdn.  Used, but apparently in rather good condition.
#
#If you have any likes/hates/reports or peeves about this weapon then
#please EMAIL me.  Thanks,
#
#Vic Thompson
#3196314@QUCDN.QueensU.CA
#

Its a Big, BIG gun, and weighs quite a bit.  If you have small hands, this is
most emphatically NOT the gun for you.  I have really big hands and I still
find the DE's grips to be kinda big.

The other caveat is ammo.  I have heard conflicting reports as to the 
functionality of factory ammo, but can tell you from experience as a handloader
that you can't shoot .44 Special or light .44 Magnum loads in it.

The big bonus of all this mass, etc. is that you can shoot the hottest 
full-house .44 Mag. loads in it and it FEELS like you are shooting .44 Spl
judging from the recoil. The gun handles well overall and I have experienced
no mechanical failures in the few years I've had mine.  

I would suggest that you either rent or borrow one and take it to a range to
try out.  You won't know until you try it if this is something you want to
spend money on.

Chris Miller
chris@MorningStar.Com
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 10mm Glock problems?
Date: 25 Jan 93 01:04:08 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <C1711D.307@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
#He said that the 10mm has been known to crack frames (which I knew), but
#that, when it happens on a Glock, you're going to get a face full of slide,
#as the part which retains the slide is exactly where the frame cracks...

The California Highway Patrol, when they tested the Glock 10mm did
find some cracking problems (I believe in that part of the gun), but
they were using prototypes which Glock had specifically stated should
_not_ be used in prolonged tests. The production 10mm were slightly
redesigned to reduce/eliminate this problem.

                                                Frank Crary
                                                CU Boulder
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock vs. Sig!?
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:36:13 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <1993Jan25.200540.3372@email.tuwien.ac.at> holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe)) writes:
#-  In case of misfire, the Glock trigger can't be pulled again
#   without racking the slide.  Same situation as with SA pistols.
#   With the SIG I have the additional option of pulling the
#   trigger again.

But one could alternatively say that with a Glock one doesn't even
THINK about wasting time pulling the trigger repeatedly when it isn't
going to help anyway..
From: holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe))
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: BEST SHOTGUN DEFENSE ROUND?
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:51:26 GMT
Organization: Technical University Vienna, Dept. for Realtime Systems, AUSTRIA

hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
[some lines deleted]
#I am not going to be clearing out rooms full of terrorists.  One scenario
#I may have to deal with, however, is a car full of gangbangers firing on
#my house from the street or the alley behind.  Worst case, I might
#legitimately need to put a slug through a car window at 30 yards and I
#won't have snipers backing me up.

#The same can be said for choice of ammunition.  I want something that can
#punch through a car door or window, at 30 yards if necessary, and still
#have enough energy left to do the job.  Hence the 3" magnums.  Ugly, but
#there it is.

If I'd expect a defense situation over a distance  of  30+  yards
(the  original article mentioned even 50+ yards), I would hate to
be confined to a shotgun.   Maybe  a  long-barrelled  one,  at  a
pinch.   I'd  definitely  prefer  a  medium-to-big  caliber rifle
(preferably semi-auto).  A 30/30 or an  8mm,  but  not  a  magnum
caliber.

To me, as a defense tool, a shotgun is  mainly  a  near-to-medium
range  weapon.   I have no experience with shotguns for distances
over 25 meters, but I expect the accuracy to be less than useful.

-- 
| Holger Reusch                             |
| Technical University of Vienna, Austria <-+--- No kangaroos here,
| Dept. for Real-Time Systems               |    sorry!
| holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at                 |
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Beretta vs Taurus ?
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:52:15 GMT
Organization: Circle 'C' Shellfish Ranch, Shores of the Pacific, California

If we can take a brief detour from the Sig vs Glock vs Beretta 
debate for a moment ...

What about Beretta vs Taurus?  They look to be the same design.
The Taurus looks to be well made (to the extent that can be seen
from the outside of the gun...).

So how similar are they?  Can you swap parts from a 92 to whatever
the Taurus equivalent is (like on real 1911-A1 clones) or are there
subtile manufacturing differences that make them quite different?

The local gun store asserts that Brazil nationalized a Beretta 
plant and is basically building Berrettas on Beretta tooling
under a different name.  Is this true?  (And did they start 
cheapening the metals or quality of labor used ... or kept the same?)

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
From: bentkopj@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Paul J. Bentkowski)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: BEST .32 defense Round?
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:00:28 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo

Question:

	For home protection use, taking into consideration walls,
	richochet, velocity, ballistics, etc... what would be 
	a good round to use in a .32 (Davis-P32) that has approx. a 3 
        inch barrel...?

  	I've had this for my wife for a couple years...
	and it has worked out well for her handling and even
	range fire (for her to feel comfortable w/ it) ... but she 
        primarly keeps it in our bedroom just for home protection...

	She also feels pretty comfortable w/ my S&W .622 over my
	Ruger Mark II ... but for size, ease of loading ... she
	is most comfortable w/ the Davis...

	Any thoughts?
pb.
From: x90hornbach1@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Type of wood on SKS?
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:16:50 GMT
Organization: Western Michigan University

Does anyone have an idea as to what type of wood is used on SKS stocks?  Do new
production models use the same wood as 60's and 70's production?  I'm
considering doing some woodworking on one of my stocks, and am curious as to
what I'm up against.


thanks
John Hornbach
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: FFL Application Form Question?
Date: 23 Jan 93 02:20:14 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

WES@SSCVX1.ssc.gov (Wes Smith) writes:

#I received an FFL application yesterday in the mail.  The BATF people seem
#real adamant about the FFL being issued for business purposes, rather than
#personal use (my intentions).  They insist that you have regular business
#hours and be open to the public.  Since I am not intending to buy and sell
#guns as a business would, and not keep regular hours for the public (I
#don't even wish to deal with the public), how do I answer on the form?  Is
#this some attempt by the Feds to limit the FFLs being issued?  It seems
#unreasonable to me that they would attempt to limit issuance to business
#organizations only.  Or did I miss a real obvious answer for the hobbyist?

Two simple ways to comply:

1) 	Set short business hours: one hour a week, either after work or
during the weekend, when you are home.  My business is open from 
9-10 am on Saturday. 

2)	Give hours as "by appointment only".   This is a legitmate way
to run a business, and I know of dealers who advertise their hours as
this.   How the BATF reacts to this in leu of a set "open doors" time I
cannot answer, because I chose #1 to minimise potential objections.

JD