HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jkusters@zeus.calpoly.edu (Chrome Jester)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Anne Mc Caffrey and computer interfaces
Date: 29 Dec 92 17:54:36 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo

ngustas@hamp.hampshire.edu divulges:
->Why is everyone on a DOS-type system?

Probably because a Command Line Interface (CLI for the acronym folx) is a
lot easier to represent in printed text.  Think about how you would
represent a GUI in printed text.  A CLI takes up less space in a book and is
fairly intuitive when read.

My opinions, of course.  I tend to write computer interfaces from a
cyber-punk point of view.  I think it leads to more interesting imagery.

JOhn.
-- 
/-John A Kusters, jr.--------------------------------------------------- ______
| jkusters@ares.calpoly.edu   b0- f- w g- s-- r p++                      \    /
Silence keeps us all in darkness, We can't change things overnight;       \  /
But we can shed a little light, Be Political not Polite! -Romanovsky & Phillips
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: wpwood@queball.austin.ibm.com (Bill Woodward)
Subject: Re: Niven/Mote in God's Eye
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:08:07 GMT
Reply-To: billw@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Bill Woodward)
	<BznwIA.1CI@ecf.toronto.edu> <1h7q1eINNgp0@menudo.uh.edu>
Organization: The Institute of Knowledge on Jinx

In article <1h7q1eINNgp0@menudo.uh.edu> HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.) writes:

   In <BznwIA.1CI@ecf.toronto.edu> hora@ecf.toronto.edu writes:

   > Some of Niven's worst stuff has also emerged from his collaborations with
   > Pournelle; _Fallen Angels_ and _The Barsoom Project_ were terrible, as was
   > _Achilles' Choice_, which he wrote with Barnes.  This if of course, MHO...

     _Barsoom Project_ did not include Pournelle.

That's right, _Dream_Park_, _Barsoom_Project_, and one other in the same
universe were exclusively Niven and Barnes.  I have both these books and
have tried to read them several times, but they just don't grab my att-
ention.  I didn't care for the short story, _Locusts_, either, which
was a Niven story that Barnes finished for him.
   But, I loved _The_Legacy_of_Heorot_, which was Niven/Pournelle/Barnes.
Now, Pournelle just isn't that good a writer, alone, but boy, when they
get together...
   Come to think of it, I haven't liked any Niven collaborations with 
anyone except Pournelle.  Neither novels, such as the aforementioned
with Barnes, and _The_Flying_Sorcerers_ with David Gerrold, or short
stories, such as 'Talisman' with Dian Girard.
   Hmm....
--
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Bill Woodward         |   I am the terror that flaps in the night.
AIX Development       |                              - Darkwing Duck
512-838-4107          |   Shut 'er down, Clancy, she's a-pumpin' mud!
billw@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com                          - IBM RT
From: dswartz@sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: What is the name of this book?
Date: 28 Dec 92 23:13:28 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: redondo.sw.stratus.com

In article <rhaller-281292142155@rhaller.cc.uoregon.edu>, rhaller@ns.uoregon.edu (Rich Haller) writes:
> Back in the 50s, there was a company (the name escapes me) that published
> low priced hard cover SF (I think Fred Pohl was responsible for the idea).
> One of them was a novel that took place on Venus. This Venus was mostly
> covered with water. The hero gets on the wrong side of some powerful people
> and winds up spending years of his life in a drugged state and amnesiac. 
> Eventually,  he recovers, et cetera.
> 
> Anyone know the name of this novel and the author? The two names that my
> memory disgorges as possiblities are Cyril Judd and C.M. Kornbluth.

It was by Henry Kuttner.  They lived in domed cities under the Venusian
sea after Earth was totalled in a war.  My copy at home has the title and
my short-term memory doesn't.  I think it was Fury?


> -Rich Haller <rhaller@ns.uoregon.edu>   University of Oregon, Eugene, OR,
> USA

-- 

#include <std_disclaimer.h>

Dan S.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: kasprj@operators.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re: Niven/Mote in God's Eye
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 13:07:54 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.175306.1509@uunet!cbmvax!xmws!kripalu>, harit@kripalu.com writes:
|> 
|> Check out the other Niven/Pornelle colaborations: Lucifer's Hammer, Legond of  
|> Herot (If you are willing to be scared), Footfall.
 
 Footfall scary? I didn't really find it to be so - aside from the assumption
that the President would call in a group of SF writers as the people best 
qualified to deal with the alien threat. "They write about it all the time,
so they must be experts." Yeah, and the police departments ask mystery writers
for advice all the time. 
 
 Actually, what's even scarier is that I don't find it impossible to imagine
Bill Clinton doing this. 
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *| Sam Adams,Spaten# Life is too short #Hudson Lager,Beck's 
     \_| Pilsener Urquell#to drink cheap beer#Pete's Wicked Ale
      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.physics,sci.skeptic
From: bethmo@microsoft.com (Beth Moursund)
Subject: Re: John Woods Campbell
Date: 01 Jan 93 01:03:37 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1jzGLb#1WryC38qMX4P8F5ZLZ3K6kLS=esr@snark.thyrsus.com> esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) writes:
>(My personal favorite Campbellian Damned Thing, BTW, was his belief that proto-
>hominids *selected* themselves into humanity via adulthood-initiation rituals
>that tested for the ability to override instinctive fears on verbal command.)

This brings back faint memories of a short story I read god-knows-how-many
years ago... I think it involved an anthropologist on some planet, who
ended up participating in such an initiation ritual.  This probably
describes several dozen stories at least, but can anyone suggest what
story it might have been?  Email to me and I'll post a summary.

  - Beth Moursund
    bethmo@microsoft.com

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: pbrewer@urbana.mcd.mot.com (Philip Brewer)
Subject: Re: Accident prone becomes planetary scout--name this story
Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Urbana Design Center
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 14:51:09 GMT

phatch@solstice.slc.mentorg.com (Phill Hatch (CONTRACTOR Documentation)) writes:

> The Minimumum Man, by Robert Sheckley, found in Store of Infinity.

Right!  It also can be found in The Fourth Galaxy Reader, edited by
H.L. Gold, editions published in 1959 and 1960.

Thanks to Phill Hatch and also to Phil Mueller, Magnus Olsson, and Jeff
Berry who identified it in email to me.

-- 
Philip Brewer                   pbrewer@urbana.mcd.mot.com
Motorola Urbana Design Center   ...!uiucuxc!udc!pbrewer
Mia urino sendrogspuras.  Jen atestilo!  ^Cu mi pli bone laboras nun?

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: durrell@pinball.arcade.uiowa.edu (Bryant Durrell)
Subject: Re: CHTORR!! (mild spoilers)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:24:29 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa


xoanon@carina.unm.edu writes:
>durrell@pinball.arcade.uiowa.edu (Bryant Durrell) writes:
>>I have also been toying
>>with the idea that the Chtorran ecology isn't alien at all.  It's
>>perfectly suited for Earth,
>How about time travel? There's some mention in the first book of
>government experiments into fourth-dimensional physics. There's
>also a lot of talk (particularly in the first book) about how the
>Chtorran ecology is so much more evolved than Earth's. It could
>well be that the Chtorran ecology is simply the Terran ecology a
>few billion years in the future. That explains why everything in-
>teracts so well, it explains the red sun, and it leaves a _whole_
>lot of new questions to replace the old ones.

Heh heh heh.  That works pretty damned well.  You know why?

We've seen two examples of a group intelligence in the series so
far.  The Chtorr intelligence and the Teep Core.  And we've also
seen people worried about what would happen if the Teep Core 
contacts the Chtorr.  I think they have good reason to be worried.

As I recall, the Teep core is at least partially mechanically
aided telepathy, so it makes some sense that they might have 
replaced that with the neural parasites.  On the other hand, it
doesn't seem too likely that they would have given up silent TP
for the songs.

It would, of course, be terribly Gerroldian to have a time travel
loop at the heart of the whole thing.

-- 
Bryant Durrell					   durrell@chop.isca.uiowa.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 I feed on the flesh of the living, and I vote.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ahill@boi.hp.com (Andy Hill)
Subject: Re: Fremen Unite!!!!!
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:58:27 GMT
Reply-To: ahill@boi.hp.com
Organization: LaserJets by Bill & Dave
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

howsonj@woods.ulowell.edu wrote:
> Achlan wasachlan (Welcome twice welcome).  It's me again.  I'm not sure
> but I got an inside tip that there are plans to make a sequal to the
> movie, Dune.  Tell me what you think.  Thanx.
>
Arrrrrrgh!  You mean the first bastardization wasn't bad enough?!

NO! NO! NO!  Arrrrrrrrrrrrgh!

There.  I feel better, now.
From: ssammy@cs.strath.ac.uk (Paul Sammy 4th Year iE/CES)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Niven/Mote in God's Eye
Date: 21 Dec 92 17:34:49 GMT
Organization: Information Engineering
In-reply-to: w95_cook@wums.wustl.edu's message of 21 Dec 92 08:44:50 GMT

>Regarding Niven/Mote in God's Eye; w95_cook@wums.wustl.edu adds:
 > NNTP-Posting-Host: msnews.wustl.edu

 > On the advice of several individuals here, I recently
 > finished my first Niven novel - The Mote in God's Eye.
 > I was highly impressed with the book.  It's been one of those
 > things I've been meaning to get around to reading for a long
 > time.  Anyway, can anyone suggest other Niven novels I might
 > want to check out?

 You *must* read the Integral Trees, and the followups.
 Also Lucifers (sp?) Hammer, which is the best invasion from
 space books ever.

 > Thanks!

 Paul

--

(setq flame-proof-text nil)          | Internet: ssammy@cs.strath.ac.uk
(setq auto-gnumagic-sig t)           | JANET   : ssammy@uk.ac.strath.cs
Claimer: Strathclyde University made me into this: go ahead and sue.
From: agae@elder.lle.rochester.edu (Andres C. Gaeris)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Auto-buy lists
Keywords: tigana
Date: 23 Dec 92 18:51:51 GMT
Reply-To: agae@elder.lle.rochester.edu (Andres C. Gaeris)
Organization: UofR Laboratory for Laser Energetics


My list is:

LArry Niven
Jerry Pournelle
Niven + Pournelle
Ben Bova
John Varley
Robert Sheckley
Joe Haldeman

In probation due to last bad books/collaborations: Arthur C. Clarke
						   Phillip J. Farmer

Almost there: Gregory Benford
	      Robert Silverberg
	      Robert Forward


Andres C. Gaeris
agae@lle.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re:  Name that book request
From: alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz (Ross Smith)
Date: 22 Dec 92 20:10:02 GMT+12
Distribution: world
Organization: Muppet Labs

In article <9212171924.AA18022@rutgers.edu> CRAIG@MITVMA.MIT.EDU (Ed Craig) writes:
>
>    If you find the name of that Rick Cook Go book, let me know what
>it's called....
>    You do see Go occasionally in other SF though, and I'm almost sure
>that the "Stones" game in the "Wheel of Time" fantasy series is Go.

Read Ian Watson's "Queenmagic, Kingmagic" (I may have that backwards). It
runs through a series of worlds based on various games (chess, snakes and
ladders, Monopoly, and Go). As a bonus, it contains two of the worst puns
in the history of science fiction (one of them related to Go) :-)


--
...... Ross Smith (Wanganui, NZ) ...... alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz ......

This is not a disclaimer, but it plays one on TV.

--

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz)
Subject: easy-to-confuse author names (was Re: New Ace SF Specials)  
Keywords: Literary SF
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 21:11:22 GMT

In article <1992Dec20.220354.14942@panix.com> pnh@panix.com (Patrick Nielsen-Hayden) writes:
>In <1992Dec20.173451.4864@eff.org> write@eff.org (Glen Cox) writes:
>
>>After Terry died, a few that he had bought and had been working on were
>>released:
>
>>   Jack McDevitt, THE HERCULES TEXT
>>   Claudia O'Keefe, (Something about Ice)
>>   Loren McGregor, THE NET
>>   Michael Kandel, STRANGE INVASIONS
>
>>These books were edited by Damon Knight, I believe.
>
>A bit confused here.  Jack McDevitt's THE HERCULES TEXT, Loren McGregor's
>THE NET, and Richard Kadrey's METROPHAGE were all bought & edited by Terry.
>Claudia O'Keefe's BLACK SNOW DAYS was bought by Terry and edited by Damon.
>And the last book in the series, Gregory Feeley's THE OXYGEN BARONS, was
>bought _and_ edited by Damon.
>
>Michael Kandel's STRANGE INVASIONS was never part of the Specials; it was
>a Bantam paperback original.  If your brains malfunctions the way mine
>chronically does, you mixed up Kadrey and Kandel.

The ones it took me a while to get sorted out were Poul Anderson and 
Frederick Pohl, Poul Anderson and Gordon Dickson, and Zelaney and Delazney.
(Oh well, you know who I mean....)

Any other bunches/pairs that it's easy to mix up?

Nancy Lebovitz
nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ngustas@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: Brief review of Crystal Line
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 16:08:40 GMT


I finished Crystal Line last night.  Good pulp.
McCaffrey really manages to pull at the heartstrings with this.  We get to
see Killashandra lose her memory, so much she can hardly remember Lars.  As
her memory goes, she gets more and more bitchy, but we can't help but feel
for her.  If you like the series so far, you should like this.  I think in
some ways it's a better book than the first two, as it isn't so much of an
outer-space romance novel.  I enjoyed it, but I think, unless you're a big
fan, wait untill it's out in paperback.  A fun, non-taxing read.
As always, 
Your obedient servant,
Gabrielle de Lioncourt
From: curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: SF Islamic deficient?(was Re: Heinlein - Politically correct?)
Date: 26 Dec 1992 05:06:14 GMT
Organization: CS Dept. Snakepit - Do Not Feed.
NNTP-Posting-Host: moccasin.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1hdptfINN17n@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> rod@cats.ucsc.edu (Rodrick Su) writes:
>
>In article <1992Dec24.180756.24259@genie.slhs.udel.edu> nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz) writes:
>>Sf is generally Islam-deficient....actually, there aren't a lot of believers
>>(in any religion) in sf. The only sf novel I can think of off-hand that
>>was set in an Islamic culture was Donald Moffitt's _Crescent in the Sky_/
>>_A Gathering of Stars_ [...]
>
>	For more Islamic(somewhat) SF, there is George Alec Effinger's
>excellent Budayeen Trilogy[...

Arabs-In-Space!  Arabs-In-Space!

Is anyone else irritated by this peculiar little subgenre?

When they came with the Arabs, I didn't complain.  When they came with
the Romans, what the hell, I wasn't a Roman.  When they came with the
Gypsies, I didn't speak up.  

And when they brought out the Welshmen, it was already too late.

Christ, folks!  Putting a common culture in a cliched setting is not
exactly a Jesse Owens leap of imagination.  You've shit the brick,
you've bit the apple; you're in science fiction.  Make it up!

c
From: chris_russo@gateway.qm.apple.com (Christopher Russo)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: The Wheel of Time: Prophecies and Portents
Date: 24 Dec 92 01:57:05 GMT
Organization: Apple

From article <1992Dec10.193801.9145@netcom.com>, by dani@netcom.com (Dani 
Zweig):
> hillyard@msc.cornell.edu:

> 
>>Rand
>>	Three woman standing over a funeral bier with him on it

Three women: Elayne, Min, and that Aiel woman (forgot her name). 

There was another quote that I don't have handy where Moiraine
is wondering 'what wound of madness' will he heal?  (referring
to Rand) Well, you just KNOW that he's going to fix the taint on 
Saidar somehow.


On another note:  I really enjoyed this series as a well done "good read"
when I first read it a while back.  Now, with the apparent well 
thought-out nature of these prophesies and allusions - as pointed out 
by you here on the net - I've upgraded this series to be my all time 
favorite.
-----Christopher Russo
----- I admire a clever .sig message.  Wish I had one. <sigh>
----- day 408.974.6070
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Subject: Re: easy-to-confuse author names
Reply-To: djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 00:06:32 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.211122.4829@genie.slhs.udel.edu> nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz) writes:

>The ones it took me a while to get sorted out were Poul Anderson and 
>Frederick Pohl, Poul Anderson and Gordon Dickson, and Zelaney and Delazney.
>(Oh well, you know who I mean....)

Indeedy I do.  During the '60s, Zelazny and Delany were perceived almost as
bookends, young-turk hotshot writers who were doing neat things with the
interface of SF and mythology/religion.

This confusion was so common that in his BLACK EASTER/THE DAY AFTER JUDGEMENT
(most recently issued in a single volume as THE DEVIL'S DAY), James Blish
combined them.  He satirized a number of SF writers in the "white monks of
Monte Albano," including Father Anson, a rather obvious Heinlein; Father
Atheling, who was a rather nice satire on himself; and Father Selahny, who
is the Delany/Zelazny character.

Very funny horror novel(s).

Who did I used to confuse?

Fredric Brown and Frederik Pohl, for two.  Dick and Dickson.  And -- this is
really weird -- I used to think Murray Leinster and Lester delRey were the
same person.  (I was very young at the time, and was basing this on their
novels for the Scholastic Book Services, notably TUNNEL THROUGH TIME and THE
RUNAWAY ROBOT.  Somehow Robert Silgerverb's LOST RACE OF MARS and REVOLT ON
ALPHA C never got into this confusion...)

An interesting reversal:  writers who people used to think were two people but 
weren't.  For example, Robert A. Heinlein and Anson McDonald, who were serious 
competitors for "the best ANALOG writer" for a while.  They were very amused by 
this, since "McDonald" was in fact Heinlein.  I gather that John Campbell's "Don
A. Stuart" masquerade worked for a while, after all.

And, of course, everyone still thinks L. Ron Hubbard was the same person.


		When you're stuffing yourself at the Christmas parties,
		don't be surprised when I tell you to take a running jump.
		You're missing the point I'm sure does not need making:
		the Christmas spirit is not what you drink.
			--Ian Anderson

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, Net.Roach
My opinions do NOT represent Pacific Bell,
Professional Development, or anyone else.
But I'm willing to share.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: hora@ecf.toronto.edu (HO ROBERT ANDREW)
Subject: Re: Niven/Mote in God's Eye
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 13:08:34 GMT

In article <22e7VB8w165w@west.darkside.com> max@west.darkside.com (Erik Max Francis) writes:
>w95_cook@wums.wustl.edu writes:
>
>> On the advice of several individuals here, I recently
>> finished my first Niven novel - The Mote in God's Eye.
>> I was highly impressed with the book.  It's been one of those
>> things I've been meaning to get around to reading for a long
>> time.  Anyway, can anyone suggest other Niven novels I might
>> want to check out?
>
>Watch yourself, here.  _The Mote in God's Eye_ is by Larry Niven and 
>Jerry Pournelle.  I think that Niven's stuff is best when he works with 
>Pournelle (and Barnes), such as in _Lucifer's Hammer_ or _The Legacy of 
>Hereot_.
>

Some of Niven's worst stuff has also emerged from his collaborations with
Pournelle; _Fallen Angels_ and _The Barsoom Project_ were terrible, as was
_Achilles' Choice_, which he wrote with Barnes.  This if of course, MHO...
-- 
Robert Ho
Univ. of Toronto
hora@ecf.toronto.edu
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:16818 rec.arts.sf.science:3887 sci.physics:21937 sci.skeptic:21858
From: esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.physics,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: John Woods Campbell
Date: 31 Dec 92 15:26:59 GMT
Distribution: world

In <1992Dec30.031602.25533@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> Ken Arromdee wrote:
> But the statement you just made about objects isn't true.

We shouldn't argue this one here.

> Why is it that Campbell defenders seem to use the "I didn't steal your pot,
> and anyway I returned it in perfect condition" argument? 

Um...I'm not doing that, I don't think.  Some of Campbell's crusades were
pure chain-yankers --- the Shaver mystery, for example.  Some were advocacy
for "damned things" he thought ought to be taken more seriously; the Dean
Drive was one such.  Some are hard to classify; I'm not sure whether he
actually believed in the Hieronymus Machine or not.

(My personal favorite Campbellian Damned Thing, BTW, was his belief that proto-
hominids *selected* themselves into humanity via adulthood-initiation rituals
that tested for the ability to override instinctive fears on verbal command.)

> Anyway, I don't see many Dean Drive SF stories. I do see stories where writers
>use various drives which defy physics, but the competent writers recognize that
> they do so, rather than claiming their space drives work in the real world.
> For that matter, I don't even see proportionately as many "human culture is
> always the best" stories as appeared before.  The only real influence I see is
> psi, and that's a special case--Campbell was far less responsible for psi in
> SF than most people think; and much modern use of psi in SF is as a substitute
> for magic in stories otherwise far closer to fantasy than science fiction.

Your notion of Campbell's influence is far too narrow and ridiculously negative.
I suggest you read a good history of SF before we continue this discussion.

Among other things, Campbell was the first editor in SF to insist on plausible
science and *good writing*.  He did not merely `influence' SF, he *defined*
SF as we know it today --- as a literature of plausible extrapolation centered
on human reactions to technological change and challenge.  

Even Campbell's most vociferous critics are operating, more than they realize,
within the conceptual framework Campbell created.  His reinvention of SF was
so sweeping, so complete, that it became invisible.  The only way to really
grasp it is to read the ephemera of pre-Campbellian "scientifiction" --- not
Verne and Wells and Doc Smith, but the Captain S. P. Meeks and Ray Cummingses
and Otis Adelbert Klines.

I've done a good bit of this.  Not many people persevere at it, because the
stuff, in general, is bloody awful.  And *that* fact, if you think about it,
is all the `rescue' JWC's reputation needs.
-- 
					Eric S. Raymond <esr@snark.thyrsus.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written