From: vinsci@brando.uwasa.fi (Leonard Norrgard)
Subject: Re: Fund raising at the FSF
Followup-To: gnu.misc.discuss,talk.philosophy.misc,alt.usage.english,alt.society.anarchy
Organization: University of Vaasa, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 11:25:50 GMT

mathew (mathew@mantis.co.uk) wrote:
> vinsci@brando.uwasa.fi (Leonard Norrgard) writes:
> > Chip Salzenberg (chip@tct.com) wrote:
> > > According to johnston@me.udel.edu (Bill Johnston):
> > > >[GPL code] is free-er in every sense of the word than any other 
> > > >software I've worked with...
> > > 
> > > Then apparently you've never used X, or Deliver, or any other system
> > > either public domain or copyrighted but released for unrestricted use.
> > 
> > Unfortunately, I have to use a hoarded X display every day at work.
> > The makers of it won't give us sources so we could fix the bugs
> > ourselves.
> 
> So why the hell did you buy the damn thing?

I wasn't working here at the time they considered X displays.  If I
were, I'd tried to negotiate better support into the deal or enough
technical info to be able to support these things on our own.

>  Honestly, buying hardware from a
> manufacturer that treats its customers shoddily and then complaining that
> you're being treated shoddily is a bit perverse.  Do you really think the GPL
> would have eliminated the manufacturer's ability to treat you badly?  If so,
> dream on.

If X had been under the GPL, the manufacturer *would have to* give me
the source.  There is no escape to that.  I don't care if their
support is bad, as long as there is an alternative.  Since I can't get
the source, there really is no alternative as of now.

> > While I can't get the X bugs fixed for the reason described above, I
> > *can* run all the latest and greatest FSF software on the machines
> > here.
> 
> Sounds to me like people have bothered to patch FSF software to work on your
> system, but they haven't bothered to patch the free X to work on your system. 
> So what?  There's nothing stopping you from patching X to run on your system,
> or paying someone else to do it.

You see, there actually is something stopping me, or I would have done
it already.  Namely, the manufacturer doesn't give out the necessary
hardware information either, effectively blocking that path.

>  What, you mean you didn't take that cost
> into account when buying the system?

Nice try.  The support we have to buy now costs more than it would
cost us to port X ourselves (my estimation).  By the way, the
manufacturer is Digital Equipment Corp. (who participated in
developing the original free X), and the product is their VXT 2000
X-terminal.
  My personal recommendation is to avoid this company and their
hardware until they change their habits (providing technical
documentation for the hardware would do).  I don't speak for the
university, those are my personal opinions.

> mathew

--
Leonard Norrgard, vinsci@brando.uwasa.fi, +358-61-3248-435.
"I'll carry your books, I'll carry a tune, I'll carry on, carry over, carry
forward, Cary Grant, cash & carry, Carry Me Back To Old Virginia, I'll even
Hara Kari if you show me how, but I will not carry a gun."
					  -- Hawkeye from M*A*S*H
Xref: sparky gnu.misc.discuss:4319 talk.philosophy.misc:3217 misc.legal:22214