From: gazit@duke.cs.duke.edu (Hillel Gazit)
Newsgroups: alt.feminism,alt.censorship,alt.sex,soc.men
Subject: Re: Censorship
Date: 6 Oct 92 15:33:27 GMT
Reply-To: gazit@cs.duke.edu (Hillel)
Followup-To: alt.feminism
Organization: The Piranha Club

In article <1992Oct6.121633.15767@panix.com>gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch) writes:
>gazit@cs.duke.edu (Hillel) writes:

| Do you accept the prediction that banning _Playboy_ will reduce rape rates?

>Is that a MacKinnon prediction?  I had read reports that
>indicated otherwise.  

I posted several times parts of The Minneapolis Antipornographic 
Ordinance that MacKinnon wrote.  Gordon probably missed them, 
so I'll post them again.

#(1) *Special Findings on Pornography:  The council finds that pornography
#is central in creating and maintaining the civil inequality of the sexes.
#Pornography is a systematic practice of exploitation and subordination
#based on sex which differentially harms women.  The bigotry and contempt
#it promotes, with the acts of aggression it fosters, harm women's 
#opportunities for equality of rights in employment, education, property
#rights, public accommodations and public services; create public
#harassment and private denigration; promote injury and degradation
#such as rape, battery and prostitution and inhibit just enforcement of
         ^^^^
#the laws against such acts; contribute significantly to restricting women
#for the full exercise of citizenship and participation in public life,
#including in neighborhoods; damage relations between the sexes; and
#undermine women's sexual exercise of rights to speech and action 
#guaranteed to all citizens under the constitutions and laws of the
#United States and the State of Minnesota.
...........................................................................
#(1) Pornography is the sexually explicit subordination of women,
#graphically depicted, whether in pictures or words, that also 
#includes one more of the following:
#
#    (i) women are presented as dehumanized sexual objects, things
#    or commodities; or
.....................................................................

Is that clear enough, or should I re-quote the paragraphs about
_PlayBoy_ from MacKinnon's book?

>MacKinnon has criticized _Playboy_,
>but I believe her interest in censorship has a narrower
>focus, that is, pornography linking sex to violence.  

Why do you believe so?

>With your impressive access to feminist writings, you should be
>able to set us straight on this one with a few quotes or citations.

Had you really wanted to discuss philosophy (fat chance...) you
would make some effort to to visit a public library and read
some basic material.

| Do you see MacKinnon's anti-porno legislation as censorship?

>Calling something "censorship" doesn't say very much; it's
>propagandistic.  As I just pointed out, most people believe
>in a great deal of suppression of free expression, for
>example laws against libel, copyright laws, laws and regu-
>lations against harassment, laws against fraud, zoning,
>and so forth.  Are all these "censorship"?  No, because
>somebody likes them.  

That was very nice, now please tell us if you, *personally* see
see MacKinnon's anti-porno legislation as censorship.

> )*(    Gordon Fitch    )*(    gcf@panix.com    )*(

Hillel                                              gazit@cs.duke.edu


"The case against pornography and the case against toleration of prostitution
are central to fight against rape," -- ("Against Our Will", Susan Brownmiller)
Newsgroups: alt.feminism,misc.misc