HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sasso@flounder.phy.anl.gov (John F. Sasso)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: multiple opponents; combat vs. self-defense
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:12:23 GMT
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory

In article <1992Apr14.112900.879@gacvx2.gac.edu> karsten@nic.gac.edu (Karsten Hendrick) writes:
>In article <1992Apr13.213202.10718@cs.brown.edu>  writes:
>
>> >On the battlefield, you want to ensure that it is safe to turn your back 
>> >on your opponent, and you want to accomplish this as quickly as possible. 
> 
> 
>>   In many martial arts, it is true that against multiple opponents
>>   the strategy is to take them out as quickly as possible, in rapid
>>   succession.  This strategy is especially true for percussion-effect arts.
> 
>>   If, however, you have two attackers attacking *simultaneously*, they
>>   are not going to do this.  They are probably going to crowd you real 
>>   close, then jump on you together.  You can hit one, but then you will
>>   be in a grappling match with the other almost immediately.  And if you
>>   haven't taken the first one out ("one punch = one kill"), then it's
>>   two on one (actually "two on top of" one).
>
>So, don't let them crowd you.  Lunge in on one and attack, hopefully
>at least temporarily disabling that one, with a strike to the throat, eye-
>gouge, kneestrike in the groin, etc.  Then it is one-on-one.  Total and
>spontaneous aggression has the effect of taking even multiple attackers
>by suprise.  My best advice for multiple attackers is to run like hell
>and hope they're slower.  That approach would have saved me a badly
>bruised rib once.
>

HAH!  The Aikido approach.  

Aikido lesson 1:  Run like hell.


							JFS


-- 
"The only way to true inspiration is the study of TedDo.  And lots
of MauMau, of course."  The Elvis Lectures
"I am not the False Bob, I am a free man."  The Book of FalseBobs
"Since the introduction of MauMau, HP sales have skyrocketed." Book of MauMau
From: neil@celia.UUCP (Neil Richmond)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: How to choose a Martial Art discipline?
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:53:53 GMT
Reply-To: celia!neil@usc.edu (Neil Richmond)
Distribution: na
Organization: Rhythm & Hues, Inc., Hollywood

In article <1992Apr13.015159.12363@mcs.anl.gov> sasso@flounder.phy.anl.gov (John F. Sasso) writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.173902.24633@bnr.ca> naldrett@bcarh893.bnr.ca (Steve Naldrett) writes:
   
>>I'm aware of the kenjutsu origins of some aikido techniques, but
>>if the *intent* is to apply it without the sword, and not hurt the
>>opponent, isn't that still considered soft?  I'll concede the point
>>on the rest.

I don't think it is the intention of Aikido to " not hurt " the attacker. There
are many techniques including joint locks which could be quite painful when
applied to an attacker. It is really the attacker's responsibility to prevent 
painful experiences. This could be achieved by not attacking, or by doing ukemi
to minimize the effect of the technique. 

>
>I interpret soft as not *having* to hurt the opponent. 

I think a possible interpretation of soft is in the manner in which you deal
with the attack. Instead of going against the attack, you blend with the 
attack, thereby neutralizing the attack with the minimum of effort.

In your own words John:

>The Aikidoist uses only as much force as is needed in the situation.

neil

-- 
Only 2817 shopping days left till the next millenium! 
Neil F. Richmond         INTERNET: celia!neil@usc.edu
Rhythm & Hues Inc.       UUCP: ...{ames,hplabs}!lll-tis!celia!neil)
Date:  9 Apr 92 09:34:03 GMT
From: osborn@socs.uts.edu.au (Boomerang Mail)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Stretching

lampij@brandonu.ca writes:

>....  Were I ever to get in a self-defence situation, I
>think it would be difficult for me to drop into a nice stable stance while
>striking, and I would certainly not kick above the waist.
>	Are their routines that are more effective for stretching than others? 

>	I think this would be a good place for some TKD people to practice
>explaining their principles of training for flexibility!!

After 8 years, you should have developed a faster "in" to stretch. A
useful routine is to get back to "loose" after each brief stretch. A
few whippy turning kicks and hook kicks can get the loose feeling back.

Another phenomenon is overtraining. Tired muscles take longer to stretch.
If you take stretching lightly (try less hard), more stretch and more
easy stretch may come your way. 

If you can find the book "fleximetrics" (around 10 years ago), you should
benefit from it.
--
Tom Osborn,                          " There is... 
School of Computing Sciences,                  ...no cause...
University of Technology, Sydney,                         ...for alarrrgh ".
PO Box 123 Broadway 2007,  AUSTRALIA.             
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus)
Subject: Re: Multiple attackers
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 19:35:16 GMT


barry@citr.uq.oz.au (Barry Kitson) writes:

>Why Foo didn't step around U just as Nage did (while
>striking of course :^) isn't all that clear to me.  

  The difference was that Foo would be merely dodging Uke, while Nage
  was actively *controlling* Uke during the movement.  It is always
  possible to run around your opponents; Nage would want to do this too,
  if convenient.  

  Nage also has the option of *throwing* one attacker into another;
  this is different from running around until they happen to 
  conveniently line up.


>If they are of
>the same ability, (and assuming they can't just run up or down the
>screen) then Foo should be circling U just as Nage did (except
>that Foo would do better to step to the closed side to avoid the
>left punch or kick which Nage is walking into ;^) .  

  Again, Nage wasn't merely circling U, (s)he was actively turning them
  with shihonage; a left punch or kick is not possible by Uke.

  Let me know if you have a GIF viewer, I can send you a GIF of this
  particular version of shihonage.  (If 10/50/100 KB is too big, let me
  know and I'll reduce the resolution.)


>Foo should keep U between himself/herself and V,

  Running and/or dodging is one method, available to anyone;
  throwing is another, available only to a grappling-experienced artist.


>Now, you are in a crowded bar

  Unlikely, I don't like beer ;-)


==========================================================
  Ted Camus                          Box 1910 CS Dept 
  tac@cs.brown.edu                   Brown University
  tac@browncs.BITNET                 Providence, RI 02912
From: bae@Auspex.COM (Brian Ehrmantraut)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Bruce Lee on...
Date: 13 Apr 92 08:53:14 GMT
Originator: news@auspex-gw.Auspex.COM

In article <1992Apr12.204921.21049@wpi.WPI.EDU>, scollins@wpi.WPI.EDU (Suppasak Collins) writes:
>	Several people have mentioned other names of great fighters/champs as 
>well.  My question is, what rules/regulations are these fighter fighting under?
> Are these kickboxing, TKD, Muay Thai rules or what?

	For the ones I mentioned, the rules are: "no rules".

	Of course, they'd probably engage the opposition at 1000 yards, 
or more, if given the opportunity ...


-- 
		Brian A. Ehrmantraut

BELL:   voice:(408) 492-0900  fax: (408) 492-0909  
USnail:	Auspex Systems, 2952 Bunker Hill Lane, Santa Clara, CA 95054
From: lampij@brandonu.ca
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Student selection, avioding bullies/confrontation/challenge
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:31:05 GMT
Organization: Brandon University, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

In article <d286169@pro-haven.cts.com>, warlock@pro-haven.cts.com (Tye Botting, SysAdmin) writes:
> In <15000122@hpmwwav6.HP.COM> larryp@hpmwtd.HP.COM (Larry Pendergrass) writes:
> 
> %       I think every teacher needs to decide whether or not they are willing
> %       to put in the time and effort to really affect change in someone's
> %       attitudes toward other people. 
> 
> 
>         This "phone interview"
> %       takes about 45 min. If both of us are still interested, we meet...
> %       
> %       
> %       If we are both still interested, they can come visit...  At this
> %       point, I am satisfied that they would fit my expectations.
> %       
> 
>      This interview procedure sounds eminently reasonable.  Everything's up
>      front, you both get a chance to find out somewhat of what each of you
>      is about (which usually happens later in most schools, possibly causing
>      difficulties), and you've established each other as people, not just
>      teacher and student.  I like it.
> 


This brings up the "which comes first, the chicken or the egg?" argument.

Does the instructor openly permit any shudent to join his class and try to
teach them to be eggs, knowing that they will grow into a chicken on their own
if you keep them warm, or does the instructor limit enrolment to only thase who
are already eggs and need nothing but warmth to make them grow?

Things that make you go Hmmm.

douglas lampi

lampij@brandonu.ca
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jonathan@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Jonathan Dwyer)
Subject: Re: Returned mail
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts
Organization: Psychology Department, University of Queensland
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 23:59:36 GMT

In article <43021@as0c.sei.cmu.edu>, psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:

----->>Useful mailing tips deleted....<<------

|> 
|> BUT THIS GUY NEEDS A BIG F*!$#~% KICK IN THE ASS!
|> 
|> 		doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen) 


And I ask myself, is this flamebait? 

Or is it just flamebait?

Perhaps it is even flamebait!!

Anyway, where did I leave that kill-file manual.....

:-)  *guffaw*

Jon



Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: rtang@sunee.waterloo.edu (He who must not be Named.)
Subject: Re: What's the point?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 11:06:36 GMT

>In article <1992Apr12.223017.6948@uoft02.utoledo.edu> fax0243@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>>	So what's the point of karate, anyway? Our school is very informal and
>>the main reason people go is to learn a little self defense, stay in shape, and
>>have some fun. Doesn't seem like too many of our instructors (don't call 'em
>>senseis here) really have any other point to karate than to be able to defend
>>one's self when the going gets tough. 

I think I lot of people place the word 'sensei' with too much meaning.
In japanese it simply means 'teacher'.  In that word, in japanese
society and many asian cultures.  It is a title that commands respect.
In that calling  your instructor, 'sensei' ' sifu' 'teacher' 'guru'
what ever should have the same level of respect or mysticism for that
matter.  Heck after all, Japanese comic book artists are given the
title of 'sensei' so what does that prove.

In western culture, this isnt always true.  ie) many teenagers treat
ANY authority figure with less respect then any of their peers.
Of course this is only a generalization.  Hence I guess the need
in some schools to use the word sensei et al. to signify someone
worthy of respect, since the word 'instructor' and 'teacher' in the
english language has lost so much of its deserved respect.

Now as an aside.
I use the word 'instructor' wheneven I post, since this will serve
as a common reference for non-japanese non-karate speakers.
To my chinese friends and family, I use the word 'sifu', even thought
his title is sensei at the school.  Also, I use the word 'kungfu'
interchangebly with the word martial arts.  When I describe that I
practice martail arts to my chinese friends and family, I say I
am doing 'kungfu'. now if you asked me WHAT kind of kungfu.
I would say 'GojuRyu Karate-do'.  Hope that shed some like for some
people who attach too much meaning in those foreign sounding words.
 guess I have to agree with the late Ed Parker's philosophy of
translating all the names of techniques into english, to dispel the
air of mysticism around MA.

Ray
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: izar@shuldig.huji.ac.il (Izar Tarandach)
Subject: re: MA in Military
Reply-To: izar@cs.huji.ac.il
Organization: Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Israel
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 14:10:50 GMT


In article <1992Apr14.025001.24146@wam.umd.edu>, beawoulf@next04wor.wam.umd.edu (Yilmaz W. Rona) writes:
|> 
|> Since the response was so overwhelming the last time I posted this question,  
|> I'll try this again:
|> 
|> Could someone tell me what kinds of MA instruction goes on in the millitary?
|> 
|> I am most interested in the instruction that Naval personel have access to.
|> 
|> 						Yilmaz Rona

	Strange as it may seem, here in Israel the chosen Art is Krav-Maga.

--izar
From: ml57+@andrew.cmu.edu (Meron Langsner)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Thanks
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:33:42 GMT
Organization: Freshman, H&SS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


   I just want to take this chance to thank eyeryone who responded to my
Changing styles/arts post.  The responses were very interesting and I
may be able to use them for a project I was considering.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bud@ms.uky.edu (William K Glunt)
Subject: Re: Funakoshi
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 00:27:42 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
X-Bytes: 

In article <43411@as0c.sei.cmu.edu> psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:
>>>simply never taught by the Chinese (Funakoshi developed his art directly from
>                                     ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^
>>>the Chinese), have in essence eviscerated the form.  
> ^^^ ^^^^^^^
>>>
>
>
>> Where on God's green Earth did you come up with THAT?
>

 Although not correctly attributed, I am the one asking that last question.

>Actually, someone on this very bboard, a karateka no less, posted a rather
>lengthy history of Shotokan, including Funakoshi's original attribution to the
>source art.  I believe the translation of karate as a character incidentally
>can carry two meanings, one meaning is China, the other "open."  In any case,

 This is not a 'bboard'. The change in ideogram from 'China' to 'empty'
was done largely as to not offend pre WWII Japanese sensibilities.

>there are far more qualified historians on this bb than I.  But, as I
>understand it, it was some Japanese official who intervened to force Funakoshi

 This is not a 'bb'. The above sounds like complete fantasy.

>to "de-Chinafy" the name of his art to mean "open hand."  If you make me go
>to the work, I will dig up the sources, although I am sure I can find them--
>so many others on this bboard have posted this stuff before.


 You've made a statement. I'd indeed like see these sources. This is not a
'bboard'.  I've been on this newsgroup since day one, and I don't recall
any such postings.


Osu!

Bud
-- 
Dr. William K Glunt     | Are you ABNORMAL?
************************| Then you are probably better than most people!
U of Kentucky math dept | Are alien space monsters bringing a STARTLING NEW
home phone 606 258 8864 | WORLD?  from _The book of the SubGenius_
From: esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Eric Sotnak)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Musashi Question
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:46:53 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)


  Did Musashi have any children?
  The short answer: YES. He had a son.  His name was Miyamoto Iori.

  Is this from a reliable source?
  Judge for yourself.  A monument in honor of Musashi was erected after
his death.  On the monument is written an account of Musashi's various
deeds.  The end of the inscription on the monument reads, "I, his
faithful son, do hereby erect this monument so that his deeds may be
known."  The last words read, "Erected by Miyamoto Iori."

  Did Musashi's decendants start a school of ninjutsu?
  I doubt it very much.  Ninjutsu was never considered a particularly
honorable art in old Japan since it relied too much on deception.  The
way a samurai gained honor and respect was to make his name as widely
known as possible.  This wasn't something one could do as a ninja.  Iori
could have made a better name for himself by teaching (or at least
professing to teach) his father's style of swordsmanship.
Also, Musashi was an adherent (or at least an admirer) or Zen, whereas
Ninjutsu schools leaned heavily towards Shingon (esoteric) Buddhism,
since it compounded the mystique of it all.  Religious affiliations in
Japan generally are passed down from one generation to another.  This
isn't by any means a conclusive refutation of the claim that Musashi's
progeny became ninjas, but in the absence of any decent
counter-evidence, I'd say the evidence is against it.


--
********************************************************************
Eric Sotnak                   |  One life.
esot@uhura.cc.rochester.edu   |  One chance. 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen)
Subject: Re: Inputs to this newsgroup
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 13:55:56 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, College of Engineering
Summary: an observation...
Followup-To:      doug:  <doug@eng.umd.edu> : <doug@lpf.umd.edu>
Keywords:  an observation....
Bcc: polinger@isis.cs.du.edu

In article <1992Apr15.221650.16095@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> polinger@isis.cs.du.edu (patrisa olinger) writes:

>I am new to this system and have been reading some of the martial arts
>commentaries....there do not seem to be many (if any) women who have any
>opinions on martial arts.

	i think you may not have been paying attention if you believe that.
barbara, lauren, mary, nancy, muffy, ..... many others not mentioned but
decidedly a presence in the group, just *might* take exception....
	{touch bin/smiles/wan}

>I am in Colorado, and have been doing Jujitsu for the past 7 months...all
>of these articles are pretty interesting, no offense to the men, but I
>was wondering if there are any women out there who would like to chat with

	i (a male poster) am not offended, however, some of the women who
regularly post might be....

>me about this subject sometime??  Of course, others (men) are welcome to
>respond as well.
>

	gee... thanks, i think i shall, and just did!  (keep the humor!)
	{touch bin/smiles/#9}
	another opinion, worth what you paid for it!
	as always, i am/at:

	     doug:  <doug@eng.umd.edu> : <doug@lpf.umd.edu>

	-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-< a ghost in the machine >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe)
Subject: Re: Ouch! Groin kick
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 06:08:47 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <953H?6!m6@cs.psu.edu> liblit@cs.psu.edu (Benjamin R. Liblit) writes:
>Actually, I've observed the flip side of this.  There used to be a
>woman in my dojang who the guys all hated to spar.  She was guaranteed
>to plant a kick right in your groin, every time.  You were scared of
>her if you were wearing a cup, and didn't go *near* her if you weren't.

A hard elbow to the breast should cure her of the desire to play this game.
Of course, you could also learn to get real good at defending against groin
kicks...

Women hurt from groin kicks too, though.  I find that low hook kicks to the
groin get in a surpising amount of the time...

D

-- 
========================================================================
Dave Smythe   N6XLP    dsmythe@netcom.com (also dsmythe@cs.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bud@ms.uky.edu (William K Glunt)
Subject: Re: Choosing a martial art - effectiveness?
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:30:29 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
X-Bytes: 

In article <1992Apr13.054148.8499@alw.nih.gov> drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury) writes:
>In article <1992Apr13.00940.29791@ms.uky.edu> bud@ms.uky.edu (William K Glunt) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr13.015319.19892@wam.umd.edu> gumby@next08cville.wam.umd.edu (Daniel David Reynolds) writes:
>>>     If you ever get a chance to come to Maryland, let me know, and I will  
>>>show you a style which is exactly that.  It is called Tai Jutsu, developed  
>>>by Will Maier and his teacher, Stephen K. Hayes, with input from their  
>>>teacher, the 32 grandmaster of Togakure-Ryu Ninjutsu, Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi.   
>>>Tai Jutsu is only tought in two schools in the world (both in Maryland),  
>>>but it will give you a feeling of what an effective self defense style is  
>>>like.  I am an instructor there, and will be happy to mail you some  
>>>information on the style.  
>>
>> Interesting.  From the ole 'Overlook dictionary of the martial arts',
>> page 261:
>> <snip>
>>
>> Taijutsu (teye-jut'soo) Jp. "body art" 1. A system of unarmed combat
>>similar to jujutsu and a forerunner to modern Judo. 
>>2. The branch of modern Judo in which it is neccessary only to throw
>>an opponent to secure a contest victory. Strangulations and armlocks
>>are excluded.
>> <snip>
>>
>> And from the Manual of Judo, by EJ Harrison, page 15
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> The term Judo today signifies the subtle Japanese art of defence and
>> attack without lethal weapons which, alike in Japan itself and elsewhere
>> in both hemispheres, has largely superseded the older one of Jujutsu
>> (pronounced Jujitsu), also known in feudal days as taijitsu or yawara.
>>
>> <snip>
>
>"Interesting" in what sense?  These references do not describe 
>the taijutsu practiced by Hatsumi and his American disciples 
>especially well.  For example, the idea that their art is just Judo 
>without chokes and armbars is laughable.  The other references 
>seem too vague to be very meaningful.  So, what caught your 
>interest?
>--
>Richard A. Drury                                    drury@helix.nih.gov
>National Institutes of Health                                   

 I found it interesting the the name of the system described by Gumby
was used in earlier times as term for jujutsu.

Osu!

Bud
-- 
Dr. William K Glunt     | Are you ABNORMAL?
************************| Then you are probably better than most people!
U of Kentucky math dept | Are alien space monsters bringing a STARTLING NEW
home phone 606 258 8864 | WORLD?  from _The book of the SubGenius_
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jose@auvax1.adelphi.edu
Subject: Upcoming tournaments
Organization: ADELPHI UNIVERSITY
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 23:40:55 GMT

	I would like to know if there are any upcoming MA tournaments.

	Please send all responses.

	Thanks in advance.
From: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Injuries?
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:36:27 GMT
Reply-To: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Organization: Florida State University

In article <willimsa.703164148@unix1.tcd.ie> willimsa@unix1.tcd.ie (Gavin Williams) writes:
>I have two injuries.  The first one is a recurring groin strain, I 
>have been using Feldene Gel which works wonders, but the problem 
>is that it just keeps coming back a few weeks later.  Right, the 

I've been nursing such a pull for the past few months. Just take it easy
for a while. Like, six months. I assume that you are using some ointment
to loosen it up or relieve pain (Feldane?)...be careful that you do not
hyperextend while in a loosened state which you have achieved by virtue
of massaging yourself with Feldane (ohhhh...sounds kinky!;). Personally,
I think the benefit from such 'herbal poultices' is often as much a
product of the massage as the substance itself (notable exceptions).
Anyway, if you believe in asian medicine, maybe find yourself some good
dit da jiao to use in place of the Feldane.

>second one is that I recently got the cast off my arm from a 
>midshaft break of the ulna, (the forearm bone following from the
>little finger), and I want to get the arm as strong as possible
>as soon as possible.

That's some tough luck! A reccomendation from asian medicine would be to
take a course of 'Fractura Pulvis' pills, a Chinese herbal formula to
help bones knit. Also, there are many versions of dit da jiao (and many
things that get lumped under this name). Some of these are designed to
knit bones, others to help soft tissue heal.

Some suggestions, if you really do seek treatment from asian medicine,
find a good acupuncturist or herbalist, or talk to the proprietor of a
Chinese apothecary shop.

David Poore
poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu