HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 11 Sep 1992 10:44:41 CDT
From: <U58402@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: "Chinese-Americans..."
 <1992Sep7.212324.19675@leland.Stanford.EDU> <1992Sep8.132644.13167@panix.com>

In article <1992Sep8.132644.13167@panix.com>, nina@panix.com (Nina Yuan) says:
>
>Why is this an either/or proposition?  The whole point of Mr. Cheng's post
>is that he identifies with BOTH Chinese and American (or Western, if you
>prefer, though I think that term's a little broad) culture, and would like
>to integrate the two.  An admirable, though difficult goal, and one that I
>think many of us on s.c.a.a. are struggling with.
>
And a goal that is true of just about any immigrant generation. Most of
the Chinese people I know are either immigrant or first generation
Chinese-American. The responses to this problem vary widely from total
immersion in Chinese culture to total assimilation. Some people only
want to have Chinese friends, others only want to have non-Chinese
friends. The vast majority, however, find themselves falling between the
two ends of the spectrum.

Wilbur Pan
(aka u58402@uicvm.uic.edu
 at the ever so friendly and personal univ. of ill. at chicago)
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 6 Sep 92 00:40:12 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <SHAW.92Sep3092002@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu> shaw@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:
>What terms are these?  If you want to consider yourself Chinese first, then
>that is your perogative.  

I get the impression that my considering myself Chinese is somehow
incompatible with being considered Asian-American by AA activists.
Those are the terms that I'm unwilling to accept.

>No.  But what you have to say does not affect me to the extent that it
>might if you considered yourself an Asian-American.  

Why?  If I were to say, "O.K., I'm now an Asian-American," and then
proceed to say the same things and act and think the same way as I did
before, why should that change how you perceive my statements and
actions?  Is it really that important to find out what a person calls
himself or herself, before evaluating their statements and actions?
If so, why?  

>it's your right, but it's certainly my right to view your opinions with
>contempt, or to simply ignore them, or to deflate them, or at times, to
>agree.

How does this change if I were to say "I'm now an Asian-American?" 

From: ajeans@hplred.HP.COM (Albert Jeans)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 15:13:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Ignorance on airlines
Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs, Palo Alto CA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american

Perhaps Texas is not one of the more enlightened areas in the U.S. I've never
run across the kinds of incidents you mentioned. Did the flight attendant 
apologize for her broken English?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, blah, blah, blah
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Distribution: ba
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 92 02:07:23 GMT

In article <la9rucINN2qv@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>
melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (Calling Dr. Nordstrom ...) writes:
>...
>Oh for Christ sake, can't your even stick to Clare's topic????!!!!
>You look for every single opportunity to attack Chinese culture EVEN
>WHEN IT'S NOT THE ORIGINAL TOPIC OF CONVERSATION!!!!
>
>You really are obsessed.
>
>Did you ever think about taking up other hobbies?

Ms. Nordstrum, I don't discuss my personal life in public.
E-mail, however, is a different story.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.discrimination
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: "Chinese-Americans..."
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 02:06:12 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.012707.10637@tcsi.com> gwu@nujoizey.tcs.com (George Wu)
writes:
>[personal attacks deleted to save bandwidth]
>     The one and sole redeeming aspect of his postings has been in
>introduction of a particularly useful terminology:
>	Chinese-cu (Chinese culture, ie. things taught); 
>	Chinese-ge (Chinese genetics, ie. things biologically inherited);
>	Chinese-ci (Chinese citizenship, ie. national allegiance).
>[personal attacks deleted to save bandwidth]

Note that Chinese-ci has been incorrectly explained.  Chinese-ci only
indicates that a person has Chinese citizenship but does _not_
indicate national allegiance.

For example, there are numerous Chinese-Americans in this country.
They are Chinese-ge but American-ci, but this indicates nothing about
their allegiance.  Some of these Chinese-Americans call themselves
American-Chinese because they believe that they are "Chinese" above
all else (whatever that means) and insist that their mother land is China.
Some of them proceeded to pass nuclear secrets from a high-energy lab to
certain Chinese officials; that's how China obtained the neutron bomb.

For a concrete example, consider Mr. Joe Wang (joe@astro.as.utexas.edu).
He said that he is Chinese-ge but American-ci; he identifies strongly
with Chinese-cu culture.  From his statements, this indicates nothing
about whether his national allegiance is to the USA; he could very
well place his loyalty with China.  It is impossible to discern his
loyalty unless he wishes to make it public.

Unlike Chinese-cu people, I certainly wouldn't make speculative personal
attacks.  Unless Mr. Wang wishes to make his position public, I
certainly won't try to pin anything on him, generally speaking.

After all, I'm not Chinese-cu.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: gwu@nujoizey.tcs.com (George Wu)
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (probable spoilers)
Organization: Teknekron Communications Systems Inc.
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 01:18:20 GMT

Somewhere hirota@sluggo.sdsc.edu (Bryan Hirota) wrote:
> 
> I am often disapointed in the inability of Asian Americans to 
> support their own kin.  When a black film in released,  African 
> Americans come out of the woodwork,  because they understand 
> the importance of the film doing well.  If the film does not do 
> well,  then the movie executives, will continue to think that 
> people X are unmarketable.

     I disagree with this contention.  Asian-Americans do indeed
support their "kin."  Part of the Asian side of us says, all other
things being equal (and sometimes not equal), if you're gonna spend
a buck, give it to "one of your own" rather than "another kind."

     I believe it's Newsweek that once said the average dollar spent
in Chinatown (or perhaps it was by Asians in general) is respent
seven times within the same family or community.  The article then
went on to quote much smaller reinvestment rates for whites and blacks.
(My memory is quite vague on this attribution, so please forgive the
vagaries.)

     Getting back to films, are you sure it's not just a matter of
media exposure and power?  (Oh no, not another blame it on the media
argument!!!!)  A film portraying Asians, AAs, or aspects of their
lives isn't going to rate high in the white controlled media for
marketability, and hence, may not get as much exposure.  Black films,
especially since the discovery that black America is a potent and
relatively untapped market, are less likely to suffer from this
evaluation by media executives.

     So who's gonna argue that choosing where to spend your money
based solely on someone's race is racism?  (My choice of flammable
terms above is somewhat deliberate.)

						George


----
George J Wu, Software Engineer         | gwu@tcs.com or uunet!tcs!gwu
Teknekron Communications Systems, Inc. | (510) 649-3700
2121 Allston Way, Berkeley, CA, 94704  | Never be the first to believe . . .
From: timlee@public.btr.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: labour day
Date: 7 Sep 92 20:40:09 GMT
Reply-To: timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american

luk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
|
|Does anyone know why the labour day in US is on Sept, instead of on May 1?
|Pardon me if it is a stupid question...couldn't fall asleep last night.

According to an almanac, Labor Day in the USA was signed into law on
June 28, 1894.  Perhaps someone else can say when/how other nations'
Labo[u]r Days came into being.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee                 timlee@btr.com  ...!decwrl!btr!timlee
This message comes with no warranty, not even an implied warranty of
fitness for any particular purpose.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ahsiung@bbn.com (Anita Hsiung)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: PBS:  The Los Angeles History Project
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:57:31 GMT
Reply-To: ahsiung@labs-n.bbn.com (Anita Hsiung)
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

For those of you in the LA area, PBS may be repeating again their
episode of the LA History Project on Chinatown.  I caught the last
half of it, in which they talked about how the Chinese have become
part of the mainstream.

Highlights I remember:  the narrator is a woman with an accent (I
think they chose an accented voice on purpose for authenticity) and
various people are interviewed.  Items discussed included how the
original Chinese came here to work on the Southern Pacific railroads
and settled in what was old Chinatown.  On weekends, the kids would
dress up and go watch a movie.  ("You dressed up to go out of
Chinatown.")  It was a lively sort of town back then.

One day, the LA city decided to build Union Station right in the midst
of Chinatown.  The Chinese didn't matter, since they were looked upon
with suspicion anyway.  The dislocated Chinese moved a few blocks
down, settling in the Chinatown we know of today.

Then came the Pacific War in WWII, where the Japanese replaced the
Chinese as objects of fear and suspicion.  Many Chinese young men
volunteered for the army and fought valiantly, slowly turning the tide
of American feeling.  A few years after the war, legislation was
passed so that the Chinese could become naturalized.

Today, there are many assimilated Americans of Chinese descent who
consider themselves completely American, and there was some discussion
about that, but nothing very controversial.  Overall, I found it a
wonderful documentary about an important aspect of the LA culture.

	-- Anita --

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Anita Hsiung       | "See how easy life can be?" -- Johnathan Raven     |
| ahsiung@bbn.com    |                                                    |
| BBN Canoga Park    | "Someday we'll look back on this moment...and      |
| California, USA    |  run smack into the car in front of us."  -- Ski   |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: luk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: labour day  
Date: 8 Sep 92 22:10:35 EDT
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american


In article <7946@public.BTR.COM>, timlee@public.btr.com writes:
> luk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
> |In article <7939@public.BTR.COM>, timlee@public.btr.com writes:
> |> luk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
> |> |
> |> |Does anyone know why the labour day in US is on Sept, instead of on May 1?
> |> |Pardon me if it is a stupid question...couldn't fall asleep last night.
> |> 
> |> According to an almanac, Labor Day in the USA was signed into law on
> |> June 28, 1894.  Perhaps someone else can say when/how other nations'
> |> Labo[u]r Days came into being.
> |
> |Isn't it labour day on may 1 in asia and europe?
> 
> In many countries, yes.  Why do you ask, since you posted the original
> article?  If you have any ideas on the origin of Labo[u]r Day in
> other countries besides the USA, please post them.

no, I don't. my question was out of curiosity... 
thank you(and also mday@lcs.mit.edu) for your response.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: NASA is accused of racism against Asian Americans
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 15:01:18 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan, Aerospace Engineering
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A6D7B712C601C4FC@sprl-mac2016.sprl.umich.edu>
X-Xxdate: Sat, 12 Sep 92 15:02:42 GMT

In article <K6q-R0=@engin.umich.edu> Michael F. Kamprath, kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu
writes:
>
>If anybosy is interested, I could go find that the AW&ST issue in my apartment
>and post it here.
>

Sorry folks.  I looked for it but I think it is already lost in that abyss
I call my apartment. Does anybody else here subscribe to Aviation Week &
Space Technology?  The article was in the last week of August issue.

========================================================================
| Michael F. Kamprath                   | The University of Michigan   |
|   kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu |      Aerospace Engineering   |
|   kamprath@engin.umich.edu            |                              |
|---------------------------------------+------------------------------+
|       And if a man can't change the world these days,                |
|       I still believe he can change his own destiny.                 |
|                                 --Michael Peters (The Alarm)         |
|                                   "The Spirit of '76"                |
========================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Subject: Re: "Asian-Americans..."
Keywords: Dwight, the bully
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 22:45:47 GMT

In article <edcheng.1e1i@terapin.com> edcheng@terapin.com (Edmund Cheng) writes:
>        In my previous posts, I stated some things that may have been ignorant
>and not have had much thought put in them.

Well, from my point-of-view, it looked like you wrote a perfectly reasonable
post and got flamed by a Chinese-culture-hating twit.  That's nothing to be
ashamed of, Edmund.  There's no need to backpedal.  If anything, the fact
that it was Dwight who nailed you should tell you were probably correct in
your original post.

>Some of the things I said I myself go by, but I should not force these
>ideas onto other Asian-Americans.

I certainly didn't see any "forcing" done by you.  Like I said, I thought it
was a reasonable and well-written post.  I'm happy to see that younger people
like yourself take the time and effort to learn about other cultures, such as
Chinese culture in your case.  I'm also happy to see a young man like you
trying to post in an "adults"-dominated forum like this.  Please, don't let
a bully like Dwight silence you.  

As for saying foolish things, that may have something to do with your age, but
in fact I've heard plenty of other things that were much more foolish from
suposedly "adult" posters.

>[...] And do try to keep in mind that I am a young mind with little
>knowledge and little experience.  Bear with me.

I certainly will.  But like I said, I didn't see what was so wrong with what
you wrote in the first place.  I do realize you're probably just 16 years
old or so.

Dwight, I've totally lost any respect for you, you overbearing little twit.
Who the hell are you to go around picking on somebody that young?!  Were you
the model of enlightenment and wisdom at that age?  For that matter, what
the hell do you know *now*??

Young Asian Americans like Edmund should be *encouraged* to come forward and
speak here, even if he doesn't know quite yet how to couch his posts in
phrases that can't be singled out and picked on by people like you.

Shame on you, Mr. Joe.  Tsk, tsk.  Nothing but a grown-up little bully...

Jim
From: kevin@daffy.ee.lbl.gov (Kevin Gong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Cantonese Culture Class (repost, correction)
Date: 5 Sep 1992 06:33:37 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley
Distribution: ba
Reply-To: kevin@daffy.ee.lbl.gov (Kevin Gong)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.112.42


Cantonese Culture 1:  This 4 hour mini course covers Chinese festivals,
lunar calendar, addressing family, symbolisms, proverbs, conversation and
character writing.

This will take place Saturday 10am-12noon on Sept. 12th and 19th at the
El Cerrito Community Center.

The cost is $16 for El Cerrito residents, and $18.40 for non-residents.

E-mail me to sign up or for more information.

 - kevin

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: shin@krusty.ee.udel.edu (Jeong-Gyun Shin)
Subject: Re: "Rasie the Red Lattern"  was Re: Rapid Fire (probable spoilers)
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:42:51 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.043135.9605@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>In article <13799.2ab51525@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu>
>luk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
>> In article underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>> Women in Chinese society have been treated like dirt for a long time.
>>> This applies principally to women in the underclasses, which is
>>> almost everybody in Chinese society.
>>In any culture, women have been treated like dirt for a long time.
>>...
>
>I don't buy what Mr. Luk is pushing.
>
>I assert that on average in the 20th century, women in the United States
>have been treated much better than women in China.  Specifically, I 
>assert this for the period of 1900-1992, which is about 100 years.

Take a time frame of when the U.S. were in similar economic condition 
(since economic affluence goes in hand with social changes - didn't you
learn that in high school, D.Joe?) of China between 1900-1992, roughly 
and generally speaking which might lead us to when U.S. was not even in 
the map.  Also take in consideration the fact that China is country of 
continental dimension with history since the dawn of mankind.  Then try 
to do some relative comparison *if* that what interests you D.Joe.
Also, does any one still using racial slur jap to you D.Joe lately?
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian American culture (was Re: Some clarification)
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:00:46 GMT
	<1992Sep14.063935.25502@mumbo.apple.com>
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science


   tse@loonybin.apple.com (Gary Tse) writes:
   > mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day) writes:

   >3. "Americans of East Asian and Southeast Asian ancestry": In common
   >American usage, "Asian American" means the same as the discredited
   >term "oriental", i.e. a person of East Asian or Southeast Asian
   >ancestry.  
   >This group really does have some shared culture: every
   >culture in East Asia has some Chinese influence, whether they
   >acknowledge it or not.

   Do you mean to say that Asian Americans need to partake of their ancestral
   culture?  

Of course not.  They don't "need to partake" of American culture
either.  I think you're putting up a straw man.

   What I asked at the start of this thread is whether there
   is anything more to Asian American culture than victimization and 
   discrimination.  The answer to that question seems to be "no".

Perhaps you need to clarify what you mean by culture.  You seem to be
willing to rule out shared aspects of ancestral cultures because not
all Asian Americans have that experience, but that's much too strict a
standard.  There are probably no *universal* Asian American
experiences, not even "victimization and discrimination."  

The useful question is what sorts of things an Asian American is
*likely* to know about and understand, not what they're *guaranteed*
to know about and understand.

--Mark Day

mday@lcs.mit.edu
From: luk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: "Rasie the Red Lattern"  was Re: Rapid Fire (probable spoilers)
Date: 14 Sep 92 22:41:41 EDT

 In article underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:

> Women in Chinese society have been treated like dirt for a long time.
> This applies principally to women in the underclasses, which is
> almost everybody in Chinese society.

In any culture, women have been treated like dirt for a long time.

>>However, I was very depressed after the movie.
>>Does anyone know why the film was banned in china several years ago?
> 
> According to Siskel & Ebert, the film was also banned by the Chinese
> government on Taiwan.  Both gov'ts sought to hide any revealing look
> at the state of Chinese society; much of the conditions that existed
> at the time of the film still exist today.
> 

IMO, the theme of the film has some political implications 
, which I failed to catch...
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Please educate this man
Date: 7 Sep 92 20:27:37 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <MDAY.92Sep5145358@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu> mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day) writes:
>The one advantage of the Newt Gingrich point of view is that you have
>answers to all of these questions, based on the belief that "Western"
>values are intrinsically correct.  

The disadvantage of what Gingrich is doing is that it resembles a lot
like what Dwight Joe is doing.  Everything "good" is subsumed under
the banner of "Western" culture in much the same way that Mr. Joe puts
everything "bad" under the banner of "Chinese" culture.

And it contains a bit of self-contradiction, after all, isn't
"cultural relativism" part of Western culture?

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american