HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mills@athena.lkg.dec.com (George Mills)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: 1990 Audi 100 SUCKS !!!!!!!!!!!!e+10
Date: 22 Dec 92 20:42:53 GMT
Distribution: na

dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer) writes:

>Come on!  The brakes on _most_ cars will keep a car from moving under full
>throttle.  The only way people unintentionally accelerated was to hit the
>gas by mistake, instead of the brake.  Try it sometime.  Push down on the
>brake and try to move the car by hitting the gas; you aren't going to 
>go anywhere (unless the engine can mysteriously start generating 1000 hp
>and 1000 lb-ft of torque).

Ever try stopping a car with power brakes and no vacuum !!!
Ever hear of a thing called a leak?
Ever hear of high idle at start up?

If some American company wanted to attack a foreign competor they would
not of picked on AUDI. They are not that popular. They would of went after
a Japaneese company.

>The media.  This is the same media that perpetuated the gulf war _story_ about
>the Iraqis stealing the incubators and leaving the babies to die.  It was 
>later determined that the story was a hoax, planned by lobbyists who had
>much to gain if the war continued.

Hey I bought an AUDI just after this whole thing happened. It didn't scare
me away. Any car can have a problem. AUDI just did not handle the problem
well at all. They INSULTED American drivers by telling that they have
FAT feet. American drivers returned the favor by making AUDI even less
popular in the U.S.

I could understand if it was someone driving the car out of the show room.
But these folks had been driving the cars for a while. A car becomes a
natural extension of the body very quickly. Why, all of a suden, would this
extension break?

I just rented a Bobcat for the first time a few months back. Never drove
anything like it before. Oh, and to add to that the rig I had on it had to
be driven backwards ! Oh, and by the way the rig wieghed about 4000 pounds
making it very teeter toter (could not hit brake or gas to fast). Oh, and
by the way your hands are throttle and steering at the same time. How,
many people you ask did I run over? None. The machine was in working
condition and so was this average FAT footed american. It was a fun
challenge to drive. I had the arm dropping, bucket tipping, turning and
backing up all at the same time in just a couple hours.

When I returned it, I asked how many accidents do you have with these
things. He said once in a great while they get tipped over if working
on inclined areas. These are 90% new drivers on a very different driving
machine.
From: tquinn@heartland.bradley.edu (Terry Quinn)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Car Phones
Date: 31 Dec 1992 12:44:21 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Reply-To: tquinn@heartland.bradley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu



Subject: Re: Car Phones
 
It seems that most of the argument about car phones has centered 
on one of two distractions:
 
Controls:  If you have to reach for a button, or have a phone 
propped on your shoulder, you crash.  This argument has been 
countered pretty effectively, with discussions on hands off car 
phones. 
 
Interuptions:  If you are talking on a car phone, you are 
distracted and will crash.  Some have countered that this is 
comparable to talking to someone else in the car, and you can 
interupt the caller.  I want to explore a different aspect of 
this.
 
A business associate that I know uses a car phone, but will not 
give out his phone number to anyone except his secretary.  He uses 
it on the open highway to transact business, and when he gets into 
traffic or has to make decisions about interchanges, he knows that 
he can tell her to hold for a while or that he will call her back 
later.
 
The reason that he does this, and why car phones should be banned 
in moving vehicles is that that phone conversations ARE more 
distracting than casual conversations in a car.  People get very 
mentally involved on the phone, especially if it is business 
related.  Our brains do not multitask well, and so we become 
increasingly disconnected from our environment.  The person on the 
other end of the line is not in the driving environment, and will 
tend to distract you more than a fellow passenger by involving you 
more in the conversation. 
 
Here is a test that you can run for yourself.  Next time you see 
someone on a car phone, note how fast he/she is driving.  More 
often than not, the driver will be running slower than surrounding 
traffic.  This seems to be an automatic defense mechanism, when 
you aren't fully aware of your situation, at least you slow down.  
I once followed a woman in a BWM for 10 miles.  She had a car 
phone propped on her shoulder, and was driving about 48 mph in the 
passing lane (speed limit 55 mph).  As soon as she hung up, off 
she sped at about 65 mph. 
 

--
                                    Terry Quinn
                                     Germantown Hills, IL
                                      tquinn@heartland.bradley.edu
from Compuserve . . .                  >INTERNET: tquinn@heartland.bradley.edu
From: ninja@willard.UUCP (Sonic Druid)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Photo-radar....
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 21:13:00 EST
Organization: Willard's House BBS, Atlanta, GA -- +1 (404) 664 8814

 
  I'm looking for Information on Photo-radar, and photo-radar
deflectors for license platest (myth or reality...I don't know...)
 

-- 
ninja@willard.UUCP (Sonic Druid)
gatech!vdbsan!willard!ninja
emory!uumind!willard!ninja
Willard's House BBS, Atlanta, GA -- +1 (404) 664 8814
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: LH test-drive results (by a buyer)
Date: 31 Dec 92 22:11:20 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation

In article <1992Dec31.152541.19890@icf.hrb.com> jek@icf.hrb.com (Joe Karolchik) writes:
>I read this post and I asked myself if this might be the
>reason that some dealers are paranoid.  Although it seems logical when you
>test drive a car to see what it's got in the handling department, I can 
>imagine how a dealer would react to you saying, "Oh, it handled wonderful
>at 110 mph.  No wind noise, and it was still accelerating.  I could've hit
>120, but the roads are kind of icy."  
>
   I dunno, I've had some pretty liberal dealers.  A Porsche dealer
   put the car sideways and invited me to try the same thing.  A
   Lincoln AND Cadillac dealer both (Mark VII and SEville STS) both
   lit up the driving wheels for a pretty good distance, then
   invited me to also hit the loud pedal.   
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch)
Subject: Re: Emblems, names and meanings...
Organization: Somewhere just far enough out of Toronto
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 06:02:02 GMT

In article <JTCHEW-181292085436@b50-afrd4.lbl.gov>
	JTCHEW@lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera) writes:

>> The Japanese logos are all SO unimaginative:I think Subaru and Mazda are the
>> only two that have any badge other than the first initial of the company.  

Not incredibly fair, especially when you examine the GM and Ford logos.
Other car companies like Volkswagon and MG have been equally ininspired.

Even American Motors was just a stylized "A".

And a logo doesn't have to contain just initials to be ugly. Look at BMW's.

Me, I always sorta liked the French logos -- Renault's wierd diamond, and
especially that dyslexic corporal's chevron used by Citroen. The cars stank
and the logos said nothing about them or the company names, but they were
cute.

>Mitsubishi uses three diamonds on most or all of its products, from cars to
>consumer electronics.  I forget what they are supposed to symbolize, but 
>they have some meaning, or at least one was retrofitted by an ad agency. 

Most of these logos probably have no specific meaning.

Does Chrysler's?
Does Mercedes?

>Founder and sole member, Coalition to Bring Back the Olds Hood Rocket

Mildly relevant...

I seem to recall that until recently, all Buicks had fake louvres in the
front fenders. When -- and why -- did that tradition end?

-- 
 Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario
         evan@telly.on.ca / uunet!utzoo!telly!evan / (416) 452-0504
         "IBM's three letters are probably EBCDIC for CYA" - Nik H.
From: mills@athena.lkg.dec.com (George Mills)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: 1990 Audi 100 SUCKS !!!!!!!!!!!!e+10
Date: 22 Dec 92 15:00:35 GMT

SROWELL@ESOC.BITNET writes:

>Unless you are in the market for a used car, there is no point in worrying
>about the old Audi 100 because the new ones are fabulous, safe and quick.
>Mind you I owned an '87 Audi 100 which I crashed on an Autobahn here in
>Germany at 80 mph (I aquaplaned in those long puddles we get here caused
>by trucks continually using the inside lane). The result was a destroyed
>front and back end to the car but the passenger compartment was not
>intruded upon at all. The old style Audis were built very well and maybe
>even saved my life...

>I think the US gives Audi a bad press (oh by the way although I live in
>Germany I am English) - it reminds me of the furore a few years ago when
>one of your TV programmes 'discovered' that Audi 100s had a tendency to
>surge backwards all of a sudden 'for no reason'. Apparently the problem
>was traced to the fact that the foot pedals in the Audi were smaller than
>standard US feet were used to, and people were stamping on the accelerator
>rather than the brake. That 'publicity' did Audi a lot of harm in the US
>when it was really a user problem (having big feet). I do not remember
>hearing any similar stories in Europe (perhaps it's a matter of media
>power?).

That's bull. It was the AUDI-5000 automatic hear and there was something
very wrong with that car. I saw a few "special programs done" (yes,
by the media) it was very convincing something was wrong with the car.
So what, even if it was the peddles, THAT CAR KILLED people.

>Finally, I would like to point out that VAG (the Volkswagen-Audi-Group)
>are not some amateur organisation that pumps out dodgy cars. They are also
>responsible for Porsche 944s and will probably take over the 911 production
>as well (if the German press is to be believed)...

>I don't believe you can damn a manufacturer for producing a dodgy car (do
>you remember the Pinto?)

The AUDI fox wasn't much better.

>Simon

I owned several VWs and an 87 4000cs quatro. All drove nice.
All, always in the shop, all keeping my wallet very empty.
The VW's are now rated as worst (not low, worst) in reliability by
JD-powers. If I had money to burn I might buy another, because they are
fun to drive (no question) but most of us don't.

P.S. At reputable dealer it cost $1000.00 for muffler system (after 3 years)
     and $800.00 for brakes for the quatro. Insurance is exteremly high also.
     Some of these things are not AUDI/VWs fault. It's just the way it is in
     the US.
Organization: Naval Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 09:04:06 -0500 
From: "Joseph D. Mazza" <mazz+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: REMOTE RADAR DETECTORS

Does anyone know if Bel makes a remote version of the 966ST (Stealth) detector?

Has anyone tried one?  

Any recommendations on other remotes?  

Any remote laser detectors yet?  

Any functional disadvantages to remotes, other than the lower mounting
reducing line-of-sight range (slightly)?  

Thanks in advance.
From: rogers@calamari.hi.com (Andrew Rogers)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Emblems, names and meanings...
Date: 22 Dec 92 11:51:10 GMT
Organization: Hitachi Computer Products, OSSD division
NNTP-Posting-Host: calamari.hi.com

In article <8039@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> jitloke@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Jit-Loke Lim) writes:
>In article <1992Dec19.065653.47525@datamark.co.nz> thomas@datamark.co.nz (Thomas Beagle) writes:
>>Badges and identity are obviously very important. I feel sorry for BMW
>>having to incorporate their traditional grill on all their cars - it
>>nearly turns the 850 into a joke!
>
>I think it makes the 850 look truly distinctive. Have you seen the newer BMW
>bikes? They shape the radiator fairing into a huge twin-kidney bean!!!

Several years ago, one of the auto rags ran a photo of the engine test room
in the BMW labs.  The radiators connected to the engines had the kidneys/
nostrils on them!

AWR
From: aland@informix.com (Colonel Panic)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Advertising fee and holdback for Probe
Keywords: probe
Date: 29 Dec 92 00:39:46 GMT
Organization: Helen Keller Bondurant's Performance Driving School for the Blind

In article <1992Dec16.184341.2761@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) writes:
>In article <BzCzno.6wx@ssesco.com> nau@ssesco.com (William Nau) writes:
>>About 8 months ago I purchased a Probe.  The advertised the hell out of
>>it to clear out the 92's for the 93's.  I never saw an advertising fee.
>>If I did, I wouldn't pay it.  I didn't pay an advertising fee when I
>>bought my last 3 pack of underwear.  Why the hell should I pay for it
>>when I buy a car.  It's another way for them to charge you more than
>>what the sticker says.  Advertising should come out of profit.
>>
>well said.   i also would not pay their electric bill or for a plumber to fix
>the toilet in their bathroom.  those are the dealers overhead costs of doing
>business...no reason any of it should be put on the car invoice!!!
>hey...i just bought a 3pack of undershirts and no advertising fee on them 
>either!!

Look, guys.  There is a difference that you are overlooking.  The advertising
fee is a direct cost of goods to the dealer -- remember, auto dealers are owned
and operated independently of the auto manufacturers.  That advertising-fee
cost is a separate line item that the dealer passes on to the customer directly
(and the dealer makes no profit on it, BTW).  If it really makes you feel
better, they could fold it into the base price of the vehicle, if you really
insist on kidding yourselves that you aren't paying for it...

It similar to, say, the fees a local independently-owned McDonalds would pay
to McDonald's corp (directly or as a component of food-item costs) to pay for 
national media advertising.  The alternative (each local McD putting its own 
TV or radio ads as its exclusive form of advertising) is just plain silly.

--
Alan Denney      aland@informix.com      {pyramid|uunet}!infmx!aland

  Smith and Wesson: the Ultimate Point-and-Click User Interface.
From: ninja@willard.UUCP (Sonic Druid)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Chrysler Conquest....
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 92 21:18:06 EST
Organization: Willard's House BBS, Atlanta, GA -- +1 (404) 664 8814

 
  Would that be the same as the Dodge Conquest - with the conquest
itself being made by mitsubishi but sold by dodge....
 
  similar to the current: Stealth..... 
 

-- 
ninja@willard.UUCP (Sonic Druid)
gatech!vdbsan!willard!ninja
emory!uumind!willard!ninja
Willard's House BBS, Atlanta, GA -- +1 (404) 664 8814
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: yu@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Fan Yu)
Subject: Re: Emblems, names and meanings...
Organization: Dept. of Physics & Astronomy, McMaster University
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:50:51 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.074725.5160@leland.Stanford.EDU> tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen) writes:
>acura's symbol is a stylized A that resembles a pair of calipers,
>and it first appeared on the 1991 acuras.  i guess acura decided
>to jump on the symbol bandwagon.
>
>what does it represent?  calipers, of course.
>
>-teddy

The "A" logo is designed such that people will think of "H-Honda" when
they see it. 

FY

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: hhm@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (herschel.h.mayo)
Subject: Re: Rustproofing Propaganda?
Organization: Chicago Home for the Morally Challenged
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:52:14 GMT

> 
> Most if not all new car rust warrantys are OUTER BODY RUST THROUGH!!!!!!!
> I dont know bout yall but I have Never seen outbody rust through.
> Most of the rust Ive seen inner body rust through or the body panels
> rusting from inside out. They know what they are doing.


You evidently have never seen a 280ZX, or several recent GM cars with huge
holes rusted through from the OUTSIDE. It looks like GM is building cars
more like the Japanese. They've already succeeded in making their cars
rust like them.



                                                    Larry Mayo
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: peterhe@microsoft.com (Peter Henriksen)
Subject: Re: ??? Saab 9000 Trip Computer ???
Date: 22 Dec 92 23:04:10 GMT
Organization: Microsoft International Products Group
Summary: Press and hold the Info and R buttons
Distribution: usa,canada
Keywords: saab,computer,trip

In article <85520@ut-emx.uucp> dbinford@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (David Binford) writes:
>After a dead battery, the trip computer on my '86 9000 Turbo displays
>everything in metric.  How can I changes this back to English units?
>(I've lost the manual.)
>--
> | / | David Binford        | dbinford@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (UNIX)        | \ |

You need to press the 2 buttons (Info and R) simultaneously and hold them
for a bit (yeah, I know, but I haven't timed it) until they go Imperial and
then back to US units (or maybe the order is reversed).
-- 
Peter Henriksen, Microsoft Int'l Products Group
uunet!microsoft!peterhe  peterhe@microsoft.uucp
From: issa@cwis.unomaha.edu (Issa El-Hazin)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Quietest cars on the market?
Date: 22 Dec 92 01:50:11 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha

tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:

>andrew@frip.wv.tek.com (Andrew Klossner) corrects my article:
>>
>>> "Each decibel represents a doubling of air pressure on the eardrum."
>>
>> Did Car & Driver screw this up?
>> A doubling is 10*log10(2) = 3.01 decibels.

>Yes, C&D did make a mistake here.  I took the decibel quote almost
>verbatim out of their ratings table.  Several other mistakes I've
>noticed are: they claim Camry wagons come with manual transmission,
>and they claim Passat wagons come only with V6.  Not only are there
>many inaccuracies in C&D, but their jokes aren't funny.

>Is Road & Track a better magazine, overall?  It's enough to make you
>go back to Consumer Reports!  :-)

:)

IMHO, the worst car magazine of all time must be Motor Trend. It's coon 
dogish. One of these days I want to count how many times they say the words: 
America, American, buy American, Domestic, and foreign in their average
magazine. (It got to be more than once a page.) 

I wish they would rank the cars for the cars themselves and let us decide 
on the "Domestic vs. Import" issue. 

The January 1993 issue is a good example of this biased bullshit.

Issa
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: pacyga@rtsg.mot.com (Jim Pacyga)
Subject: SHO Prices (1993)
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 20:42:52 GMT

Hi all you SHO lovers,

  I thought I would post the the latest price quote I got for a
1993 SHO deal...

  1993 SHO (5 speed)
	Luxury Convience Group
	JBL sound
	
  ~$22,500 (includes $1300 in cash back which expires 1/5)

 
  Anyway, I didn't seem like this guy was to interested in moving
these SHO's ( he had 10 5 speeds and about 10 autos ) because
he offered me $9,500 for my trade ( 1990 SHO w/30kmiles in very good
condition ) which according to the blue book is worth 12.5k. 

  Oh well, maybe I'll head back to two-door territory again...

Jim Pacyga
From: chan@modular.com (Tak Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: test... please ignore
Date: 29 Dec 92 20:21:59 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Modular Mining Systems, Tucson, AZ

This is only a test....
From: gkc@freddie.udev.cdc.com (gordon k chace x2367)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Saturn's Allegedly "Noisy" Engine
Date: 23 Dec 92 14:41:14 GMT

Saturn redesigned the engines mounts for the 92 models, including a change
in the foundry moldings used to cast the cylinder heads.  One of the 
magazines that had criticized the 91 noise, published a followup and
credited them with spending capital $$ to change foundry equipment that
was not yet amortized.

Note there are several combinations:

1. SOHC versus DOHC cylinder heads.
2. Manual versus automatic transmission.
3. With manual tranny, the SOHC gets wide ratios and the DOHC gets
   narrow ratios.  At highway cruise, SOHC uses fewer RPM than DOHC.
4. 91 versus subsequent models.

My Saturn is a 92 with SOHC and wide-ratio manual tranny.  In 5-th, it gets 
27 mph for each 1000 rpm.  The low-end torque is sufficient that in normal
traffic there is no need to rev beyond 3000 rpm while accelerating.  In
abnormal traffic, ie our !@#$%^&* metered freeway ramps, I rev it up, and
indeed the noise increases somewhere between 3000 and 4000 rpm.  This is
just as well as those conditions prevent me from looking at the tach so
I shift by ear.

This Saturn is the quietest car I've had in a quarter century of driving.
I'll qualify that endorsement by admitting that I am an econobox person.

-- 
Gordon K. Chace
Control Data Systems, Inc.   phone (612) 482-6524   fax 482-2791
email: gordon.chace@cdc.com or gkc@udev.cdc.com
RISC: Really Invented on the Sixty-six-hundred by CDC
From: boebert@sctc.com (Earl Boebert)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Saturn Crashworthiness (was: The Amazing Cut Away Saturn)
Date: 30 Dec 92 22:46:02 GMT
Organization: SCTC

phr@telebit.com (Paul Rubin) writes:

>Saturn has gotten just about the worst crash test results in its class.
>I wonder whether the use of so much plastic has something to do with it.

Er, this was hashed out pretty thoroughly on the Saturn list: there
were some misleading numbers put out owing to a change in NTSA testing
procedures. All this happened around a year ago.  Updated numbers (as
well as anecdotal evidence) indicates that the Saturns are at least,
if not more, crashworthy than other cars of their size. The design is
much like a NASCAR racer, being a steel cage covered with non-load
bearing skin.  The use of plastic actually helps, as it enables more
weight to be devoted to the cage.

Earl
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rdu@iastate.edu (Runqing Du)
Subject: MAZDA GLC 81 for sale in central iowa
Keywords: MAZDA
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 21:27:15 GMT


                       M A Z D A   for    S A L E

     Mazda, 81, GLC, 58K miles, AC, stereo, 4-speed (non automatic),

     blue hatchback, great MPG, mechanically sound, dependable car.

     Best offer over $800.

     Phone:515-296-8027     

     e-mail: rdu@iastate.edu (i live in Ames)
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Car phones
Date: 22 Dec 1992 13:55:08 GMT
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.239.3.202

K.Buck@ma30.bull.com (Ken Buck) writes:

>In article <102651@netnews.upenn.edu> tony@scotty.dccs.upenn.edu
>In article <1992Dec21.210929.5263@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com>
>sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund) writes:
>>whatever model you finally decide on, PLEASE make sure its a model that
>>doesn't require the use of hands to use - 

>i'm all in favor of that, but let's add "PLEASE make sure its a model that
>doesn't require the use of a BRAIN to use"...
>in my opinion, phone conversations risk devoting too much attention from
>the task of driving, even with hands-free operation.  i wouldn't mind
>having a car phone for emergencies and/or occasional convenience, but i
>wouldn't use it while moving.  encourage responsible use!

A hands-free phone requires no more attention than does talking to
your passenger.

I realize that some people can't even handle that task and driving
simultaneously, but most people can -- and with the phone you won't be
tempted to keep looking at the person you're talking to.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos