HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Robertson Davies
Date: 29 Jul 92 05:23:48 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

Daniel Kodmur asks for a discussion of Robertson Davies, and why not? I still
recall reading Fifth Business with intense excitement, knowing I would surely
teach it; I was then a novice college teacher, simultaneously at work on a
master's in CanLit, so Davies was a double resource. I went on to read the
Salterton trilogy, earlier and less solemn novels, and then plowed my way
through World of Wonders and one or two others. "Plowed" is the word I want;
Davies can do some things very well, but he does them over and over. He has one
style (at least in the Deptford trilogy), one voice regardless of who is
narrating the tale. Everyone sounds like a damn U of T academic, and it becomes
increasingly hard, therefore, to take him seriously.

Perhaps off the topic: Davies, now in his great old age, is one of a number of
novelists who came to prominence in the late 1950s and 60s (Richler, Atwood,
two or three others)--but that generation of writers has no descendants. We
have various modestly competent writers who are also highly capable at swinging
Canada Council grants, but no one who has developed a coherent and extensive
body of work or a broad audience. I think it's very sad.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)
Subject: Re: Jumping to conclusions in r.a.b (was Re: Revisited Classics (was Re: Little Men)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 03:31:36 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <9207241501.AA25356@cfdev1.shearson.com> mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:
>
>There is a curious type of exchange that often pops up in r.a.b.
>A typical example of this exchange just took place:
>
	...and he proceeds to elaborate.  This is a very good point,
	and is identical to that expressed in Letter III of
	C. S. Lewis' _The ScrewTape Letters_.  I quote:
		4.  In civilised life domestic hatred usually expresses
		itself by saying things which would appear quite harmless
		on paper (the *words* are not offensive) but in such a 
		voice, or at such a moment, that they are not far short
		of a blow in the face.  To keep this game up you and
		Glubose must see to it that each of these two fools
		has a sort of double standard.  Your patient must demand
		that all his own utterances are to be taken at their face
		value and judged simply on the actual words, while at
		the same time judging all his mother's utterances with
		the fullest and most over-sensitive interpretation of 
		the tone and the context and suspected intention.  She
		must be encouraged to do the same to him.  Hence from
		every quarrel they can both go away convinced, or very
		nearly convinced, that they are quite innocent.
		... Once this habit is well established you have the
		delightful situation of a human saying things with
		the express purpose of offending and yet having a
		grievance when offense is taken.
	This kind of stuff is why I enjoy reading good Xian, or
	in general any religious, work, because the authors at least
	make the attempt to get the reader beyond the petty crap
	Mr. Taranto's post describes.

>
>Mark
>

Roger Squires
rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: Sayers/Marsh - 2 quick questions
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 13:34:19 GMT

Jane Lean writes:

	Which Sayers' novels other than "Gaudy Night" and "Busman's 
	Honeymoon" have Harriet Vane in them?  "Strong Poison"?  Isn't 
	there a fourth?

They are, in chronological order,

	Strong Poison
	Have his Carcase
	Gaudy Night
	Busman's Honeymoon

and then the short stories

	The Haunted Policeman
	Talboys

Reading them in chronological order is not a bad idea. There is a
development of character that otherwise is lost. There is also a
significant change in tone from the rather dismal to the quite
joyous. The two short stories are something of a disappointment,
but when the kids came popping out, obviously there had to be some
sort of domestic bliss to nestle them in.

						fido
From: dmpowell@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Darin M. Powell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Gothic, Decadent books...
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:03:55 GMT
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY

In article <Bs2HCx.7MH@acsu.buffalo.edu> mecca@acsu.buffalo.edu (Starkitty) writes:
>I just recently read Bret Easton Ellis' Less Than Zero and found that I
>enjoyed literary dark demons in humans.. anyone have suggestions on what
>books I should read next?
>
>--Renee

	_Lord of the Flies_ is a good choice, if you want
	dark, depressing, black-soul kinda stuff.

	As is Conrad's _Heart of Darkness_.

	Darin Powell
	Syracuse University
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: Recent Reading
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:00:17 GMT

Jeff Davis writes:

	While _Utz_ can be read straight up, the fact that Chatwin thought
	he was dying of a rare and exotic bone disease which he contracted
	in China turns the elegant, chilly themes of _Utz_ into something
	a little more Purgatorial. 

Did Chatwin think he was dying of a rare and exotic bone disease, or did he
just say he was, or thought he was, dying of a rare and exotic bone disease?

							Fido
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Great last sentences
Keywords: longest, great, sentences
Date: 22 Jul 92 15:01:44 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: saint@cats.ucsc.edu (Dan Bodenheimer)

In article <14hke7INN9ut@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, saint@cats (Dan Bodenheimer) writes:
>I don't know if this is the greatest last sentence, but it could
>be the longest, and it is also defines the Saint. 

Six lines?  Get real.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: Revisited Classics (was Re: Little Men)
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 01:07:55 GMT

Marcy Thompson writes:

	Francis Muir wrote:

		Marcy Thompson writes:

			If you liked DADDY LONG LEGS, you'll probably 
			like DEAR ENEMY by the same author. You do have 
			to ignore some of the comments about the poor 
			and the mentally retarded, as they are based on 
			the latest theories of the 1910s. But it's a 
			charming book anyway.

		I am curious. How many others share Ms Thompson's view 
		that we are now so much more understanding of the problems 
		of poverty and mental retardation that we can afford to 
		ignore earlier views?

	Have you read the book? The theories I am referring to are 
	some of those which were promoted during the 1910s. They went 
	as follows:

		Irish people left to reproduce unsupervised will produce 
		more idiots and morons than "regular" people.

  		Mongoloids should be sterilised because it is hereditary.

	There are other comments in the book which should not necessarily
	be ignored, but if you notice, I said "ignore some".

	Perhaps you should find out what you are talking about before 
	you accuse me of being arrogant and self-righteous???

This is as absurd an accusation as I have seen in some time. Where do
I accuse Ms Thompson of arrogance or self-righteousness? I ask a simple
question. How many others share Ms T's views? I suspect quite a few. It
is a Correct point of view. My own is that the tidying up that Ms T eschews 
is not useful. It is my belief that the common notion that we are smarter 
than our forbears is also not useful and rather silly, and the further
notion that we are in some way more ethical is downright Pharasaical.
I am totally uninterested in Ms Thompson qua Ms Thompson, but she really
must allow me to discuss her views. Why else post?

							Fido
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:13545 rec.humor:24977 talk.religion.misc:13112 sci.skeptic:13460 alt.atheism:14697
From: simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Simon Clippingdale)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,talk.religion.misc,sci.skeptic,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 31 Jul 92 13:15:29 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Warwick University, England

In article <1992Jul31.014212.29518@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> kyrie@coos.dartmouth.edu (Thomas S. Marlowe) writes:
>
> Grr.
>
> Agnostic = a + gnostic = not knowing
> Atheist  = a + theist  = not God
>
> Agnositicism is not a belief.  It simply means
> that the person does not know whether there
> is a god or not.
>
> Atheism is a belief.  It is a belief that
> there is not a God, just as a monotheist
> believes there is one God and a polytheist
> believes in many gods.

The ambiguity certainly exists, and can be expressed in terms of "weak"
and "strong" atheism, or if you prefer, `a-theism' and `athe-ism', or
not(believe(gods)) and believe(not(gods)).

Usually the "weak" position is the one understood by the term `atheism'
on this group, and those intending the "strong" position are requested
in section 7 of the FAQ file to indicate their intent explicitly.

> TSM
>------------------>Thomas.S.Marlowe@Dartmouth.edu<-----------------------

Cheers

Simon
-- 
Simon Clippingdale                simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk
Department of Computer Science    Tel (+44) 203 523296
University of Warwick             FAX (+44) 203 525714
Coventry CV4 7AL, U.K.            or 0203 etc. if you're in the sunny UK
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: chaplin@keinstr.uucp (Roger Chaplin)
Subject: Re-reading of childhood favorites (was Re: RAH)
Organization: Keithley Instruments, Cleveland, Ohio
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:16:25 GMT

In article <0095E2AA.A3911600@Msu.oscs.montana.edu> alisg@Msu.oscs.montana.edu writes:
>That leads me to my question: Have any of you gone back and re-read books from
>any genre that you loved/liked as a child, up through, say, high school? Did
>the book hold up well?  Was it awful? Why do you think either reaction
>happened?

I recently borrowed _A Wrinkle In Time_ from the library to read to my
kids.  I think I enjoyed it more this time than I did when I first read
it in the 6th grade.  The book tells a story on a couple of different
levels.  The adventure appealed to me as a child, the moral to me as an
adult.  The eccentricities of the `old ladies' amused me as a child and
were symbolic to me as an adult.
-- 
Roger Chaplin / Instruments Division Engineering / "Worry does not empty
chaplin@keinstr.uucp / CI$: 76307,3506          / tomorrow of sorrow -
#include <disclaimer.h>                        / it empties today of strength."
#include "disclaimer.h" /* cover all bases */ /               - Corrie ten Boom
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: spb0457@zeus.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Subject: Re: Great American Novel
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:49:00 GMT

Mike Godwin writes...
>SubGenius writes:
>>Overrated?  Possibly.  _Vineland_, _Crying of Lot 49_ and _Slow Learner_
>>weren't exactly brilliant.
> 
>I disagree. VINELAND was exactly brilliant.
> 
>--Mike

+------------------------------------SubG--------------------------------------+
Although I thought the _Vineland_ was exceptional through roughly the first
half and the last quarter, that third quarter of the novel seemed a bit murky
and I got the impression that Mr. Pynchon was getting a bit involved with 
writing a "Pynchon Novel" instead of just writing.

Perusing what I just said, I think what I'm trying to say is that the style 
seemed a bit strained in points.  I think.





Zoyd for President,
Yours etc.,




SubGenius
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:13327 alt.horror:2911
From: operator@ilx024 (IDC C.E.C Team Ext-5980)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.horror
Subject: Re: Lovecraft Philosophy (was _Necronomicon_)
Date: 29 Jul 92 06:15:15 GMT
Organization: Intel
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires) writes:
: In article <1992Jul28.062919.15706@ilx018.intel.com> you write:
: >
: >A related question - the same biography claims that some of HPL's work is in
: >the public domain, either due to being published first in amateur magazines,
: >or due to expiration. Now THIS is interesting - if anyone knows exactly what
: >works are in public domain, and what the legal status of "publishing" them on
: >the net would be, we`de have a nice little net.project on our hands.
: >
: >This is especially attractive for those "rare gems" that are almost impossible
: >to find, being out of print for a long time.
: >
: 
: 	You have just restated the purpose of the Gutenberg Project.

I am aware of the Gutenberg project - but I didn't know how to contact them
- thanks!

But before I contact them, I need something to go on. I don't know which of
HPL's work is in the public domain, and I doubt that the Gutenberg Project is
the right place to ask. After I have the names of a few uncopyrighted stories - 
then I plan to contact them.

The question is, if anyone knows which of HPL's work is in the public domain.

: 
: 
: 	As for copyrights, here is the PG guideline:
: 	"Copyright considerations:  easiest rule of thumb is printed in the US,
: 	and over 74 years ago.  However, we will do more extensive searches in
: 	cases where such an edition is not available."

Well - I don't think anything of HPL's was actually published before 1918 - and
does this mean I have to have the edition which was published then, to do the
copying from, or if the work is in public domain can I use a more recently
published copy?

Naty Hoffman

EMAIL: hnaty@iil.intel.com
From: emzx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Funny Faulkner in Smithsonian
Date: 30 Jul 92 16:19:05 EDT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University

If you want to check out a superbly funny article on Faulkner(since good old
William seems to have crept back into our discussions), check out this month's
copy of "Smithsonian."  I guess that's the August issue, not the July - anyway,
it's worth digging around for.  Very, very humorous.

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Start strong, end strong, and look for opportunities in the middle."
                              -S. O'Nan

Sung J. Woo, Secretary of The International Gridlocker Society

emzx@CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:13250 alt.horror:2891
From: hnaty@ilws76 (Hoffman Naty)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.horror
Subject: Re: Lovecraft Philosophy (was _Necronomicon_)
Date: 28 Jul 92 06:29:19 GMT
Organization: Intel
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

dmpowell@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Darin M. Powell) writes:
: 
:      Naty Hoffman writes:
: 
: >> Re Lovecraft - does anyone know if/where it is possible to find the "notes by
: >> Lovecraft" on which Derleth claims he based his horrible pastiches?
: 
:      T. Kurt Bond writes:
: 
: >I've seen refences to HPL's notebooks in other sources than Derleth; I don't
: >remember seeing any references to a published version.  Some of the stories
: >that Derleth listed Lovecraft as a co-author on seemed to be completely written
: >by Derleth inspired by a sentence or two of HPL's.
: 	
: 
: 	Ramsey Campbell, in is introduction to "Cold Print", mentions
: 	Lovecraft's "commonplace book" or notebook, which he used to
: 	draw inspiration for his mythos tales. But I've never seen it --
: 	I don't know if its published (like the letters) or not.
: 

I feel a bit silly answering my own question, but I recently went over parts
of HPL's biography by De Camp, and (I think in the last chapter, which
covers the publication of HPL's works after his death) it says there that
HPL's "commonplace book" was published, I think under a title like
("Lovecraft's Notes and Commonplace Book"), by some amateur publisher (I don't
have the biography here).

Now the question is, how to find it, and how much would it be worth ;-).

A related question - the same biography claims that some of HPL's work is in
the public domain, either due to being published first in amateur magazines,
or due to expiration. Now THIS is interesting - if anyone knows exactly what
works are in public domain, and what the legal status of "publishing" them on
the net would be, we`de have a nice little net.project on our hands.

This is especially attractive for those "rare gems" that are almost impossible
to find, being out of print for a long time.

Comments, anyone?

Naty Hoffman
hnaty@iil.intel.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: ve3pak@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Alayne McGregor and Brett Delmage)
Subject: Re: What Katy Did to Little Men
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC., Orleans (Ont)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 03:29:15 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.051212.9061@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>I have vague childhood memories of *What Katy Did* and the sequel, *What
>Katy Did Next*. Does anyone remember more about these? Their dates? Were
>they pre-Alcott?

by Susan Coolidge.

I read them many years ago and vaguely remember they were of the same era
or only slightly later. 

Re Alcott: After doting on *Eight Cousins* and *Rose in Bloom*, I tried
to read *Little Women*. My eight-year-old tastes dismissed it as soppy
after the first few chapters. I tried a few years later and a decade after
that and still couldn't stand it. To this date, I have read a number
of the lesser-known Alcotts (Jack and Jill, Under the Lilacs, etc.),
but I've always found Little Women and its sequels unreadable. (And I
generally have a very strong stomach for sentimental tosh.)

Alayne McGregor
alayne@ve3pak.ocunix.on.ca
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: baker@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Andrew Baker)
Subject: Re: Or Shakespeare either (was: I don't like Dickens...so sue me!
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 16:58:14 GMT

In article <64337@hydra.gatech.EDU> barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard) writes:
>In article <11401@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>
>>I'm kind of mystified why anone would find John Lennon's death a
>>virtue.
>
>So was I.  Maybe because the guy who was glad Lennon died is Southern Baptist,
>and Imagine suggests imagining a world without religion.

I first remember hearing Imagine in the movie The Killing Fields, and I
assumed at the time that it was meant to be a song embodying the Khmer Rouge
philosophy.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: ve3pak@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Alayne McGregor and Brett Delmage)
Subject: Re: Young Adult
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC., Orleans (Ont)
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 00:03:00 GMT

In article <14mn5dINNp0f@agate.berkeley.edu> mossman@sag1.ssl.berkeley.edu () writes:
>What Katy Did.  (plot synopsis excluded)

No wonder I'd forgot completely what this book was about ... I wonder
how I got through it at the time.

>THe Shoes books. THese are all by Noel Streatfield. I only have Ballet,
>Dancing, and Skating Shoes but I'd love to hear of any others. Brittish,

Great books. Even for adults.

>Noel Streatfield also wrote two
>semi-biograhpical books called A Vicarage Family and Away from the
>Vicarage, about her growing up and young adult life.

Have you read _Beyond the Vicarage_, the third in the series? Very
interesting, all three. I thoroughly enjoyed them.

Alayne McGregor
alayne@ve3pak.ocunix.on.ca
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: calvo@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (Sherri Calvo)
Subject: Re: Identify this story/quote/poem?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA - Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:45:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.181016.12197@awdprime.austin.ibm.com>, craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com writes...
> 
>Can anyone help me identify the following story?
> 
>Two people are walking on the beach. One finds a live clam
>that has washed ashore, picks it up and throws it back into
>the ocean. The other person says "There's an awful lot of
>clams washed up on this beach; no way you can save them all."
>To which the first person replies "I may not be able to save
>them all, but I made a difference in this one clam's life."
> 
>Am not sure if it's a story or a poem or one of those 
>inspirational things you see on plaques or what. Anyone
>know who wrote it and where I can find the exact text?
> 
>Thanks!
> 
>Craig
> 
>-- "Again," she said.             Craig Becker, Object Technology Products --
>-- "I'm afraid you've mistaken me       Internet: craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com --
>--  for someone else," the            Austin: craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com --
>--  bureaucrat said amiably.                        VNET: CRAIGB at AUSVM1 --
>-- 
>-- "Again," she said.             Craig Becker, Object Technology Products --
>-- "I'm afraid you've mistaken me       Internet: craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com --
>--  for someone else," the            Austin: craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com --
>--  bureaucrat said amiably.                        VNET: CRAIGB at AUSVM1 


I think it's one of the plaque things, but IMHO better than most. The 
way I read it, it was a kid and his grandfather. And it was starfish. 
The kid said "Why are you throwing them back? There are so many, it 
makes no difference." The grandfather looks at the one in his hand and 
says "It makes a difference to this one."

Maybe it was one of those Readers' Digest things.

Sherri

Sherri Chasin Calvo
calvo@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov

Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:13289 rec.humor:24738 talk.religion.misc:12872 sci.skeptic:13316