From: knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Is NASA really planning to Terraform Mars?
Date: 11 Sep 92 04:22:46 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <1992Sep10.172900.4108@eng.umd.edu> sysmgr@king.eng.umd.edu writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.145918.14933@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp) writes:
>
>>You mean ignoring any possible consequences of ozone loss and maybe even
>>global warming? Let's even completely ignore increasing risks of nuclear
>>war (from non-NATO develpment) or from nuclear disaster.  We can also ignore
>>steady expansionism of the populace.
>
>Hey, and I bet you were kvetching about the Evil Stockpiles of Nuclear War
>between the United States and the Soviet Union a couple of years ago. 

Now why would *I* mind having half of my tax dollars go to a mass of weapons
that could eliminate all life on Earth several times over? I doubt that the
stockpiles were actually evil. Maybe the pentagon invested in exorcists for
them too?

I'll be you knew alllll along that the evil empire wasn't so evil, didn't you.


>It's gone, so there's something else to blow up, er, INFLATE as a "threat" 
>to civilization as we know it.

Inflate... Hmmm. Yeah, I guess we blew that nuclear anhiliation thing *way*
out of proportion. They were really just insurance. They would never have
actually used them, I mean, ignoring Nagasaki and Hiroshima, right?


>It's also laughable to look at "global warming" when a single volcanic eruption
>kicks enough enough ash to DROP temperatures despite our many years of
>unregulated environmental engineering, hmm? 

You are clearly not well read on the subject. You cannot extract enough
information on that subject from a headline to discuss it intelligently.

>We also don't have enough of a dataset on our world to show what the "real" 
>temperature should be. I kid you not. Would you like to average in the ice ages
>and the time before the DinosaurKiller impacted? 

But the theory that dinosaurs were killed by a meteor impact is only a theory,
right?

You are correct about global warming. We have no conclusive evidence. On the
other hand if it is truly happening, and we just cannot figure it out, we're
fucked.  Ozone loss, on the other hand, is quite real and quite anthropogenic,
or will you now call me a bunny hugger because I liked ozone the way it was?

I urge you to fight against the chicken littles of the world and stop
wearing sun screen just to prove you're right.

>>Even if you ignore all the globe-threatening issues, *population* growth,
>>which you can *count on*, will still be one of our greatest challenges.  It
>>will keep growing until it simply *can't* and that only happens when world
>>resources, particularly in food stuffs, become steadily taxed. Don't
>>kid yourselves, this is *going* to happen whether you like it or agree with
>>it.
>
>I didn't know we had gone to world goverment. Now, who in the third world is
>going to come and tax US, hmm? 

There is effectively a world government, Yes. You misinterpreted the context of
the word 'taxed'.

>Besides, population growth is self-correcting.

Ultimately, yes, but you won't like the way it corrects itself.

> People who have nothing better
>to do start little piss-ant wars and end up killing themselves off. 

When the global population saturates, you will not be thinking 'piss ant' 
wars anymore. I don't have to try to convince you either because all you 
have to do is wait and remember somebody mentioned it to you.


>>Even after you look at the population curve and make some simple extrapolations,
>>keeping in mind things like fossil fuel depletion in the next 50 years,
>>shifting agricultural zones, you do not see this?
>
>Another Club of Rome member. <yawn>

Huh?

>We've been running out of fossil fuels for 100 years. Before that, there was a
>fear of a great shortage of whale oil, due to overhunting. 

No, we will *run out* of fossil fuels in less than fifty years.

>Could you tell me what the current demand for whale oil is? 

Ah, you're right. Somebody will think of something before there is a problem.
Let's have a beer.

When we do run out of fossil fuels, I'm sure I won't see you shoving to get
an electric car because you were so convinced it wouldn't be an issue. I hope
you like the bus.

>Furthermore, the Club of Ignorance also ignores little things like A)
>Technological Innovation is not static,

Not at all, I'm frankly quite excited about our government launching space
based mirrors and dumping millions of tons of methane into the stratosphere
to correct the ozone hole caused by, er, technology. Well, heck, that was
just one *teensy* error that I'm *certain* can't happen again 'cuz we're
technologically *advanced* now! (makes me feel safe all over)  Probably
we can stuff acid rain (bunny hugger fantasy I'm sure), love canal neighbor-
hoods, and pcbs in penguins in that lot too. CONSPIRACY!!!

> B) Free-market economies stimulate the
>development of more efficient use of resources and substitutes. 

Right. Go Bush!  "I love what you do for me!" (and the ecomomy) "But this time
I *promise* not to raise taxes, those damn democrats made me do it"  "Hey,
'merika! Watch me pull a rabbit outta my hat! (not that trick again..) Nuttin
up my sleeve.... PRESTO!"


>>You do not know there is no life on Mars or anywhere else other than Earth.
>>I don't see the relevance of arguing over the label of 'back yard'.  I don't
>>think as a society, or even a planet, we have yet learned how to manage our
>>*own* planet, not even a *little*.  Because of this I don't think we are
>>qualified to begin applying our ignorance to anther planet.
>>
>>Luckily, this will not be an issue for many years.
>
>Naw, you'd better line up now to put Saturn's rings off-limits to Szabo's Ice
>Mining, Inc. And then prepare to go out there and enforce your law, hm?

I'll have some of what you're smoking! ;-)

>                 Support U.N. military force against Serbia

Didn't you just imply there was no world government?

>
>  -- >                  SYSMGR@CADLAB.ENG.UMD.EDU                        < --



No, really, I see what you're saying, until we see that it is a problem, 
we should not worry about it. Good strategy.



-- 
David Knapp                                      University of Colorado, Boulder
Perpetual Student                                   knapp@spot.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: sci.space