HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Koenigsberg/Kaliningrad
Date: 8 Sep 92 04:33:14 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena


>>Was not Hitler free elected?

As far as I have learned, this is sort of an anti-democracy myth.

I believe (correct me if I am wrong) that he lost with 30% of the vote,
but was appointed anyways by Ribentropp.

IMHO, democracy is the least evil form of government.

(Not my original saying, borrowed from a dear Russian friend,
and I thank him for it.)

-patricia
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: zhelud@drfmc.ceng.cea.fr (Andrei Zheludev)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Cyrillic via net
Date: 7 Sep 92 14:28:10 GMT
Organization: Conspiracy International
Originator: verbits1@husc9.harvard.edu

In article <1992Sep3.005829.27795@cs.rose-hulman.edu> watersjc@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Jeffrey C Waters) writes:
>
>I'm new to this thing.... but can you send cyrillic characters to  
>Russia???



There is a simple way to send files created by the BETA or ALFA MSDOS rusificators by e-mail.
You simply code them with uucode and send the coded file.
From: dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM (Dmitri Leschiner)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: What's Rakhov like?
Date: 8 Sep 92 22:26:15 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

>Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 17:11:04 GMT
>From: George Petrov <petrov@TFS.COM>

>	Is it time to consider returning Mukachevo to Slovakia or
>	Hungary?

Of course it is. I guess Kravchuk should return Ungvar (Uzhgorod)
and Munkacsi and Beregvar to Magyarorszag as soon as Slovakia will
return their Hungarian lands to the same.....................

D.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Russian poetry
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 09:43:39 GMT

>Bravo, Igor!

>Spasi nas Bog ot damochek s diplomami i aspiraciami.

>Alexandre "Sasha Propili Bashli" Kostomaroff

Why do you hate me and want to hurt me?

-patricia
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: "democratic" Estonia
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 08:48:25 GMT


>
>Yes, but it is not the ethnic confilcts -- it's the struggle for
>power between ex-communist rulers (like Nabiyev who resigned recenltly after
>the opposition finally caught him) and multicolored opposition forces
>varying from Islam fundamentalists to pro-democratic movements.

So  there is no ethnic conflicts in Estonia as I have always written.
>

>>In the beginning of August the azeris arrested two russian officers.
>>There has been negotiations to free them without results. The unsuccesful
>>negotiations have been done without public threat which  the russians
>>run in the Baltics.
>
>
>>"LANGUAGE LAWS DO NOT HEATEN SENCES"
>>
>>"The careful attitude of Russia concerning Central Asia can be seen
>>clearly of the fact that the russians do not blame the language laws
>>of Uzbekistan,Kazakstan or Tadzikistan.
>>Of the inhabitants of Karaganda 80 % are russians, germans and other
>>foreigners. Only one fifth are kazaks but according the laws of the
>>independent Kazakstan to all leading posts will nominated kazaks.
>>The opressed russians have to leave the country.
>
>Wow. How do ya think are Russians a minorty in Kazakhstan? I wonder
>where this guy gets his information. Need i to remind that the 
>Kazakhstan is the most supportive of Russian politics among the CIS
>members? Nazarbayev won elections with the strong support of Russian
>population of Kazakhstan (note that they were allowed to cast ballots).
>
>As for language -- in the city on the banks of Potomac river which
>happened to be the capital of the U.S.A 26% of population speaks
>in languages which are different from English. In LA it's 60%.
>No signs of fierce protests about teaching English in schools...
>
So you support the idea that the teaching language at schools,
official documents, street names etc. are in Estonia in estonian.
I wish it however.



>For a lot of US residents English is merely a mean to communicate with
>other ethnic groups; in ex-Soviet countries de-facto it is Russian.
>How do you think how can be interpreted intentions of a government
>which shuts down teaching of the language of inter-ethnical communication?
>Yep, in a (European) country it was named "ethnical cleansing".
>

And in independent Estonia estonian is the language of the communication
with other ethnic groups. I support that policy.


>If you didn't know, a foreighn language (usually English or German) is
>a mandatory course in *all* Russian schools (with a notably exeption of
>schools for mentally impaired). Now let's see if anybody ever complained
>about German (or Britan) nationalism in Russia.
>
Finally the estonians can decide themselves which are mandatory
languages at their schools. I support that idea.

Jarmo Ryyti


>Again i don't feel guilty that my native language is wide-spread.
>
>--vadim


Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: wolfi@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Wolfgang Schwanke)
Subject: Re: Koenigsberg/Kaliningrad
Organization: Techn. University of Berlin, Germany
Distribution: soc
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 14:20:44 GMT

patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz) writes:


>>>Was not Hitler free elected?
>
>As far as I have learned, this is sort of an anti-democracy myth.

At least often used that way.
>
>I believe (correct me if I am wrong) that he lost with 30% of the vote,
>but was appointed anyways by Ribentropp.

By Hindenburg I believe. Whatever.

2 months later he had pass a law that practically made him dictator
(Ermaechtigungsgesetz). But the parliament wasn't even complete (the communist
members being imprisoned already), and all happened in an atmosphere of
turmoil and violence in the streets, thus posing a threat on the deputies.

Next thing he did was to make sure there wouldn't be any free elections again.

Note that the nazis themselves weren't happy with misusing the democratic
institutions to gain power. No wonder, since they despised the system.

>IMHO, democracy is the least evil form of government.

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all others that have
 been tried out before."

(Churchill, not literally. Anyone know the exact words?)

>(Not my original saying, borrowed from a dear Russian friend,
>and I thank him for it.)
>
>-patricia

Greetinx :)

Wolfgang

--
* Wolfgang Schwanke * Technische Universitaet Berlin * Germany * wolfi on irc *
* email: wolfi@cs.tu-berlin.de       *      wolfaefg@w250zrz.zrz.tu-berlin.de *

   Everybody needs a little love sometime; stop hacking and fall in love!
From: dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM (Dmitri Leschiner)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Master and Margaret and other books
Date: 10 Sep 92 13:21:18 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

>Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 18:33:46 GMT
>From: "Patricia M. Schwarz" <patricia@CCO.CALTECH.EDU>

>>would prefere hell with

>Me too. I will meet you there.


Mark your words, my sweeeety.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz)
Subject: Re: The least nationalistic nation
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 18:04:53 GMT

>You can study V.Erofeev's books and biography. But if you have
>never been drinking all night and feeling sick in the morning _BEFOR_
>the shops selling red wine open and have never been obliged to buy
>"HERES" instead, you will never understand Venichka the way he wants
>to be understood.

I think you're underestimating the power of literary talent.

A writer who is a genius can make herself or himself understood
across cultural boundaries.

For instance, do you have to be Middle European to have feelings
about Kafka?

And what does it mean to "truly understand" a work of art? I think
I misspoke when I said I "understood" Axmatova's poetry (some of it.)
What I really meant is that I got some strong emotional feeling for it.
Even the most non-emigrant patriotic truly born Russian I don't think
can reduce "Master i Margarita" to a completely solved system. You
destroy the art this way.

Maybe some of the negative emotions being expressed right now are a
combination of apprehension that there will be a Russo-Disney outside
of Moscow someday, and that certain people who were abused by the
Soviet system and had to emigrate will never be able to get back their
past Russian lives.

I hate the idea of "the conquering Westerner" coming to Moscow with
Marlboros and Lancome lipstick to bribe the poor ignorant unstable
drunken Russians. This disgusting picture was glorified in many otherwise
respectable American magazines under the topic of "How to Survive in
the Soviet Union." 

No one can deny that Russian literature and poetry contains a high
proportion of works of true genius. Please don't be so miserly with
these works. Instead be happy that people all over the world love them
in their own ways.
From: avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim Antonov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: The least nationalistic nation
Date: 9 Sep 1992 16:43:37 -0400
Organization: Berkeley Software Design
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net

In article <1992Sep9.180453.8396@cco.caltech.edu> patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz) writes:

>For instance, do you have to be Middle European to have feelings
>about Kafka?

I bet Kafka is much better understood by Communism and Nazism survivors
that by anybody else. To get grip on understanding the Soviet system
you need to start thinking in a Kafkian way.

>And what does it mean to "truly understand" a work of art? I think
>I misspoke when I said I "understood" Axmatova's poetry (some of it.)

Well, tell us what the line

	"Tam oranzhevye baby zabivayut kostyli"

(from Shevchuk, DDT) means? It's much simplier than interpret Akhmatova.

>Maybe some of the negative emotions being expressed right now are a
>combination of apprehension that there will be a Russo-Disney outside
>of Moscow someday,

Unfortunately, yes.

>...and that certain people who were abused by the
>Soviet system and had to emigrate will never be able to get back their
>past Russian lives.

And much much much more abused ones will live happily ever in their
motherland. Don't be ridiculous.

>I hate the idea of "the conquering Westerner" coming to Moscow with
>Marlboros and Lancome lipstick to bribe the poor ignorant unstable
>drunken Russians.

Ignorant? Unstable? Drunken? Not more than Americans.
Get rid of those stereotypes first, bears aren't wandering on
Moscow streets and not everyone is a KGB agent.

Poor? Yes, but you need to be a racist to equate misery with inferiority.

>This disgusting picture was glorified in many otherwise
>respectable American magazines under the topic of "How to Survive in
>the Soviet Union." 

Yep, the memoirs of idiots in a Wild East. I've got a lot of good laughter
reading those opuses in respectable Washingtonian newspapers.

>No one can deny that Russian literature and poetry contains a high
>proportion of works of true genius.

Simply nobody cared to reproduce (and therefore remember) the crap in
samizdat. Nobody cared to risk a life for a piece of a graphomaniac
crap. Cenzorship has it's bright sides.

--vadim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Subject: Re: Cultural differences (Was Re: Who Is Afraid Of Patricia Schwarz?)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:29:41 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.12 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In  <LEONID.92Sep14101406@tuna.uchicago.edu>  leonid@tuna.uchicago.edu (Leonid Andreev) writes:
>         <1992Sep14.132949.39174@watson.ibm.com>
> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:13:41 GMT
>
> Oleg Vishnepolsky writes:
>
> >   leonid@tuna.uchicago.edu (Leonid Andreev) writes:
> >   > Surely I am. As all the educated people know, Andreevs are one of
> >   > the best noble families of Russia. Off course I am proud of bearing
> >   > such an aristocratic name like this.
> >
> >   How can one be proud of something one did not earn ?
>
> Are you *SERIOUS*???

Unlike the usual me, I am serious.
One of my great grandmothers was a Russian noble - I do not give a
slightest damn about it.
I do understand the pride taken in skills, knowledge or actions -
those are something one gets as a result of his/her efforts.
Something which was given to you at birth such as brown eyes or
your name is something you did not fight for. If a choice was
given to you between rotting in a concentration camp or keeping
your name, then it would be a different story.

Oleg
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Shafarevich
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 21:58:49 GMT

I am beginning to understand the Shafarevich situation and I thank
even those who insulted me privately for this understanding.

I think it's like America in the fifties or sixties, when the idea
of racism was being confronted and the word itself was being continuously
redefined. People in the South who were not counted as "racists" because
they did not agree with lynching black people but still had a lot of
wrong and nasty beliefs about them and also liberal hypocrites in the
North who made nicey-nice comments hiding the fear in their hearts
were surprised when the definition of the word grew to include them. 
This was necessary in order for society to become more just.

And now we've progressed to a kind of idiot level where one PC
artist has been branded by others as a "racist" for a very innocuous
work of art where the definition of racism follows a multipage discourse
that people pretend to read and believe but no on really understands,
and no black person at the exhibit voiced any feelings of threat
or discomfort at her work.

In the meantime, however, despite the excesses and the failures,
I think we have made progress, on the average.

So I think no matter what either academy does with Shafarevich,
Russia will pass through this phase of working with and defining
antisemitism and prgress eventually to the idiot level like us.

Same with feminism, Russian women in about five years will begin to
seriously work with this concept, people will argue very bitterly
but the tone of arguments will change, just as they did here, real
progress will be made, and then there will also be some idiot-level
fluctuations too.

Thanks again, everyone, for the information.

-patricia@cco.caltech.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: ivirker@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Igor Virker)
Subject: PEASE IGNORE...
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 22:14:32 GMT
From: hlynka@server.uwindsor.ca (Myron Hlynka)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: E-mail help needed
Date: 7 Sep 1992 19:14:25 GMT
Organization: University of Windsor, Ontario, Canada

In article <188b5mINN23l@rodan.UU.NET> avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim Antonov) writes:

>The only officially approved Internet top-level domains for
>
>	.SU	- still serves Russia and other countries except for:
>	.EE	- Estonia
>	.LV	- Latvia
>	.LT	- Lithuania
>
>Those countries were the first to acquire UN recognition and tharefore
>they were the first to get ISO country codes the domain names based on.

The Ukrainian SSR and Belarussian SSR were founding members of the 
United Nations in 1948(?) .

                                 Myron Hlynka
From: dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM (Dmitri Leschiner)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: A Flaming Idea
Date: 9 Sep 92 23:45:33 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

>Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 13:12:57 GMT
>From: Igor Belchinskiy <bil@BURKA..AIX.KINGSTON.IBM.COM>

>In article <9209082118.AA07485@feds66.Prime.COM> "soc.culture.soviet via
> ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu> writes:
>>>From: Oleg Vishnepolsky <oleg@WATSON.IBM.COM>
>>
>>>patricia@CCO.CALTECH.EDU ("Patricia M. Schwarz") writes:
>>>> ... it's nice to see another woman in this group.
>>
>>>Ditto. This is a sexist remark and I apologize in advance.
>>
>>
>>Homosexist, I'd say.

>No, Oleg's remark was heterosexist.

>Homosexist was Ms. Schwarz remark.


My point exactly...
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: vlad@erg.sri.com (vlad)
Subject: Re: Shafarevich
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, CA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 23:00:07 GMT

In article <18etj5INN1m9@agate.berkeley.edu> muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky) writes:
>In article <1992Sep7.040218.24040@math.ucla.edu> aps@sonia.math.ucla.edu (Alexei Stolboushkin) writes:
>>
>>Do you really mean that before the perestrojka it was not possible to
>>publish all this stuff? It seems to me that Belov's ``Vse vperedi'' was
>>published in millions of copies long before the perestrojka. Also,
>>let me remind you all these ``Litso sionizma'' etc. This is not to
>>mention all the ``samizdat'' published in SOAN (Novosibirsk akademgorodok)
>>and spread all over the country in these years with the obvios support of
>>the ``KPGB''.
>>
>
>I never red none of this bullshit, but would you agree that there is much more
>of this now. Moreover at least most of this stuff (I do not know about
>Belov's books) were against Jews abroad. And even mostly against state of
>Israel. That makes a _big_ difference. The idea of _outside_ enemy is bad
>but it is not new, in general has nothing to do with antisemitism and
>not even close to the idea of _inner_ enemy.

You are wrong. The very same people who wrote book blaming 'Zionists and
American Imperialists" for everything that they did not like outside of the
USSR, also blamed  'Zionists and American Imperialists" for everything that
went wrong IN the USSR. Of course, being OUTSIDE, those  'Zionists and
American Imperialists" had to have agents INSIDE of the USSR. Guess who
were pointed out as such agents? Soviet Jews, of course.

>I would not claim that there were no anti-semitic practices of the state,
>but they were hash-hash. Officially non-existant.

Well, semi-hush-hush. If you asked any Soviet offical privately, he would
gladly explain why Jews had to be discriminated against.

>As for sionism, meaning assembling all Jews in Palestina, 
>or idea of preference of Jewish nation (I think that was main object of attack
>of all those anto-sionist commities) I do not think it is all that good
>thing.

What od you mean by " preference of Jewish nation"? Do you mean the idea
that Jews have the right to escape genocide by having their own country?
Why is it not an "all that good thing"?

What else do yuo mean by " preference of Jewish nation"? Recognition of
Israel as one of human nations? Why not? Aren't Jews human?

Vlad

Employer disagrees
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: mashina <novost@halcyon.com>
Subject: Oh, those Russians
Originator: novost@halcyon.com
Keywords: Russians, attitudes
Reply-To: novost@halcyon.com
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 15:34:02 GMT

Sergey writes that more Americans than you think have the attitude
of "...why don't you goddamn Russians go home and rot there".

Please keep in mind Sergey, that here in America, more often that
not, that minority or radical groups are usually the most vocal or
out spoken groups of people.  They usually do not represent the
views of the majority.  After all, one does note usually complain
if everything is going OK.  Also, most Americans have little
knowledge of Russia other than preconceived ideas brought about
by 50 years of the "kholodnay vojna".  I am not apologizing for
these people, only that one should not be intimidated by them.

                         Jeff
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Master and Margaret and other books
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 18:33:46 GMT

> In any case, I peronally
>would prefere hell with Woland in charge to heaven with Jacob.

Me too. I will meet you there.

There is a lot of cruelty and acceptance of cruelty in the Bible.

-patricia
From: zhelud@drfmc.ceng.cea.fr (Andrei Zheludev)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: The least nationalistic nation
Date: 11 Sep 92 12:20:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Sep11.082020.15525
Organization: Conspiracy International
Originator: verbits1@husc9.harvard.edu

In article <1992Sep10.130922.27657@cco.caltech.edu> patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz) writes:
>>ps.  Patricia, I have a question for you: Do you think your revealing your

>Are you afraid of me?
>
>The next time you see a child don't assume this child is being
>treated like a human being.
>
>I don't understand how such things can be tolerated in a "civilzed"
>world. But they are tolerated because people keep quiet about it.
>
>I refuse to do this anymore. I refuse to lie and say that yes, I'm
>just another happy person on God's green earth.
>

Patricia! If You are a honest woman, you should not only refuse
to lie, but you also _MUST_ commit suicide within 30 seconds. How can
such honest, proud, _concerned_ people like you live in a world
of terrible bastards like I am.!?

AAAAaaaaAAAaaaaaAAAaaaazzZZZZzzzzZZzzzZZZzzzZZZz
From: muh@physics1 (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Russian poetry
Date: 12 Sep 1992 20:22:36 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics1.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep10.162839.48127@watson.ibm.com> bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy) writes:
>
>Sorry if I'm wrong, but I always thought that 
>"do not understand completely" == "do not understand at all"
>"do not understand completely" == "understand nothing"
>Btw, other netters who replied understand me the way I wanted.

I apologize for my reply on this reply. I misunderstood it. I thought you
think that if you dude/dudess(?) "ne sowsem ponimaesh"=>"ni chrena ne ponimaesh"
=>"ne ...zdi". BTW, I still think that "do not understand completely" mean
"ne sovsem ponimat'". Moreover the heat of Russian (or Sovok in good sense)
style discussion suggested this meaning of phrase. Also it seems to me that
PS understands something. Frankly, do you have a feeling (most probably wrong)
that you understand
America better than American's (in some respect), just because you are outsider?

W samom dele, nabrosilis' na devochku, ah kto-to vtorgsja so svoimi griaznymi
americanskimi sapogami v svjataja-svjatyh russkoj kul'tury. 
>
>look at mathematics. There some non-trivial things.

BTW, my question about why 1+1=2 was not purely sarcastic. Ja ne procyapjus'
po nocham, pypajas' ponjat' pochemu, no naskol'ko ja ponimaju eto ne stol'
trivial'no, kak kazhetsja. Math was developed as tool for discription of 
our image of nature, and thus depends not only on nature, but on human brain,
too. (Wy hoteli kul'tury, poluchite :)).

A woobsche, anekdotik kto'b rasskazal. Svezhij.

Yury