HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Don't Bring Lists (was Re: mitral valve prola
From: RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg)
Date: 9 Oct 92 11:55:17 EDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Philosophy Dept., Wesleyan University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20In-Reply-To: km@cs.pitt.edu's message of 9 Oct 92 13:38:20 GMTLines: 24

In <16881@pitt.UUCP> km@cs.pitt.edu writes:

> In article <BvroBw.2tK@apollo.hp.com> betsyp@apollo.hp.com (Betsy Perry) writes:
> 
> |The rule of thumb that Ken cites seems to me to date from a more
> |leisured era of medical care.  I can understand why a doctor becomes
> |nervous when confronted with a list of symptoms rivalling Leporello's
> |list of conquests.  But a list of nagging questions may only indicate
> |a patient who is trying to make efficient use of a physician's
> |tightly scheduled time.
> 
> Even if a physician's time is tightly schedules, you should never be
> made to feel rushed in a physician's office. If the physician is
> seeing so many patients that he/she doesn't have time to spend with
> them doing things properly, then it is time to add another physician
> to the practice, or to wind things down.

Some people forget what they were going to ask no matter how much time you give
them.  They go blank in the Dr's ofc (kind of like "test anxiety").  Seems to
me better to let 'em bring a "cheat sheet" w. questions, w/out prejudice...

------------------------
Ruth Ginzberg <rginzberg@eagle.wesleyan.edu>
Philosophy Department;Wesleyan University;USA
From: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: SHINGLES
Date: 7 Oct 92 12:12:02 GMT
Reply-To: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <1992Oct5.212553.20954@netcom.com> kudzu@netcom.com (Michael Sierchio) writes:

>Chicken pox is contagious -- the particular manifestation of herpes
>zoster charecterized by vesicular eruptions is not.

No. It is possible to get chicken pox (initial infection) from
someone with shingles. It is not possible to get zoster this
way, except indirectly, as zoster represents reactivation of the
virus.

 -km
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: ken mitchum, please don't leave sci.med
From: RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg)
Date: 14 Oct 92 16:02:35 EDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Philosophy Dept., Wesleyan University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20In-Reply-To: dyer@spdcc.com's message of Wed, 14 Oct 1992 15:59:29 GMTLines: 41

In <1992Oct14.155929.20619@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com writes:

> Ken shouldn't forget that when he answers someone's question publically,
> even a question which should have been answered ahead of time by someone's
> doctor, he's imparting that information to tens of thousands of
> individuals who can find it of value, even if it isn't immediately
> relevant to their lives (I haven't looked at Brian Reid's arbitron
> statistics for sci.med recently, but I'm sure its readership is of
> that order.)

I have (looked at BR's arbitron stats recently, that is).  Estimated readership
of sci.med: 42,000 readers, making sci.med the 78th most widely read news group
on usenet (out of over 1600 "regular" & more than 5000 "non-regular"
newsgroups).
------------- Essay:  What I Get Out of Sci.med --------------------------- 
Some of us (sci.med fans) don't really want EITHER (1) an advice column, or (2)
the refighting of the Scientific Revolution.  Nor can we get our interests
satisfied in our own dr's offices (med school might be more like it).  I
(personally) would be DELIGHTED to be able to go to med school for the next 3
years; it would be intellectual nirvana for my beleaguered academic brain. My
own doc (while quite willing to answer numerous questions) is rather unwilling
to privately tutor me in the art & science of medicine.  I have been a closet
reader of medical textbooks (oh, oh: true confessions) ever since my 1st
pregnancy, when the silly little pink book titled "So, You're Having A Baby!"
given to my by the ob/gyn just didn't quite address all of my intellectual
curiosity.  At that time (pardon me, my age is showing) the pre-med advisor at
my (quite respectable) undergrad college told me that I was "too old" to go to
med school, & besides that, no med school would ever admit a woman with a young
child.  (It turns out that was false even then, but what did I know?)  So I got
my degree(s) in philosophy & became a philosophy professor and an *avid*
science (esp. med science) hobbyist.  Now, there aren't too many appropriate
places for med science hobbyists to delight in their hobbies.  But this is one
of the few I've found (along with reading Medline abstracts while the rest of
the world watches TV).  So I'd be sad to see it either (1) disappear
completely, or (2) become inaccessible to lay folks like me, or (3) become a
repository for flame wars & On-Line Ask-The-Doc.   Just MHO.


------------------------
Ruth Ginzberg <rginzberg@eagle.wesleyan.edu>
Philosophy Department;Wesleyan University;USA
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com (David Barton)
Subject: Re: Flame wars on sci.med
Organization: Intermetrics Inc., Washington Division, USA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:03:09 GMT

In article <16915@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:

   So I'm going to attempt to stop debating these people.  I will
   still answer questions and post information, but will try very
   hard to avoid responding to nonsense and getting drawn into
   flame wars with medical hobbyists.  

At least, you will still be here.  For that, I am grateful.

On some of the more controversial groups, I have a set limit: I will
respond once on a thread, then let it drop (announcing that I am doing
so).  This has worked well with me.

On non-controversial groups where flame wars sometimes break out, I go
as long as something different is being said, then drop out.  I treat
these on a case by case basis.

   And I also hope I will be able to stick to it.  Arguing is a lot of
   fun for me and it will be hard to give it up.  I guess I'll have
   to go to talk.misc.religion and argue there.

That's sure one place for it.  For sheer flame volume and lack of any
sort of reason, talk.abortion is hard to beat.

					Dave Barton
					dlb@hudson.wash.inmet.com
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: wilcox@tortoise.cis.ohio-state.edu (Patricia P Wilcox)
Subject: Re: Medline access?
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 15:02:11 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.201513.17818@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>In article <1992Oct5.011128.1513@cnsvax.uwec.edu> nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David A. Nye MD) writes:
>>Does anyone know how I can access Medline through the Internet?
>>I know I can access PaperChase through Compu$erve but that is
>>an absolute last resort.
>
>According to David Rind at the BIH, PaperChase internet access is due any
>day now.  If you're a masochist, you can telnet to MEDLINE directly:
>
>[arktos 47] telnet medlars.nlm.nih.gov
>Trying 130.14.10.200 ...
>Connected to medlars.nlm.nih.gov.
>Escape character is '^]'.
>PLEASE ENTER  LOGIN
>
>but you'll need to have set up an account with them directly and use
>the MEDLARS commands which are virtually indecipherable (and one reason
>why front ends like Grateful Med were written.)  Mac/PC/X11 versions
>of Grateful Med which used TCP/IP instead of a modem would be a godsend.
>I wonder if anyone at NLM is thinking of this?
  ...
>-- 
>Steve Dyer
>dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer

See Grateful Med version 6.0, section 7.4:

  "Internet - TCP/IP Access Method"

But, as you point out, Internet access does not mean free access.
Actually, the PaperChase interface to Medline from CompuServe is
extremely user-friendly and relatively economical.  You can also get to
PaperChase directly, but the cost is about the same.

--Pat Wilcox   (71340.142@compuserve.com)
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Anyone who thinks there can be such things as safe effective drugs
is either ignorant or stupid."     ...Herman Rubin, sci.med, 3/5/92
From: jean@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jean Jasinski)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: More Eyeball Woes
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:07:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpfcso.7540100
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

No double vision, just light pressure inside the eyeball.

Jean
From: rind@binoc.bih.harvard.edu (David Rind)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re:  Was MVP, Now it's hyperuricemia
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:13:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: hsdndev.1960
Distribution: sci
Organization: Beth Israel Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston Mass., USA

In article <BONNIE.92Oct7140016@aigyptos.nmsu.edu> bonnie@nmsu.edu
 (Bonnie Hargrave) writes:
>What is hyperuricemia, please.  Since I can't find any layperson books

Hyperuricemia just means high uric acid levels in the blood -- nothing
more complex than that.

>The reason I'm researching this is that I do have high uric acid (if
>8.0 is considered high?), but the foods my, ummm, former doctor told

Assuming the 8.0 is in the units I'm used to, that's a mildly high
uric acid level.

-- 
David Rind
rind@binoc.bih.harvard.edu
From: krissie@locus.com (Krissie Griffiths)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Migraine headaches without the pain?
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:17:22 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California

In article <9874@fs3.cam.nist.gov> crosson@cam.nist.gov (Robert Crosson) writes:
>
>Are migraine headaches without the pain possible?  Are there places
>to take this little girl for specialized treatment?

in my case, yes, headache, no pain.  i will get GI symptoms, take my
headache medication and the symptoms go away.  i refer to this as the 
headache without the headache.

i have had migraine headaches since at least age seven, and i am somewhat
older than that now.  there are some centers that specialize in migraine,
i believe the a dr. diamond in ??? sorry it escapes me right now has a 
very famous headache clinic.  i think he is in the midwest/east.

i have a great article on headaches, send me your snail mail address.

kg


-- 
so what if i am a vegan?  so what if i try to live a cruelty free lifestyle?
i'll tell you what, i sleep better at night knowing that nothing suffers for
anything i eat or wear and i try to use products that have not involved 
animal testing.  
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: brein@gpvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Barry Rein)
Subject: My wife drank during her pregnancy and the baby lived!
Followup-To: sci.med
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:53:36 GMT

It seems to me that the hysteria about drinking during pregnancy is just
that.

I am aware of fetal alcohol syndrome, and the more dubious fetal alcohol
effect.  But is there any medical evidence that light drinking, say two or
three ounces of ethanol a week, will harm the fetus?


******************************************************************************
*                               Barry Rein                                 
 *
*                        brein@dsfvax.jpl.nasa.gov                         
 *
******************************************************************************
*                              No clever comment.                          
 * 
******************************************************************************
From: turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Put up or shut up  (was: alternative medicine newsgroup)
Date: 10 Oct 1992 13:10:28 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu
Summary: More on Chinese medicine.

-*----
In article <1992Oct9.094313.12019@vms.eurokom.ie> mdebuitlear@vms.eurokom.ie writes:
> I believe that a certain type of photograph (the name eludes 
> me, I'm afraid) shows up the electrical fields in and around
> the body. ...

Kirlian photography.  Totally bogus, and now thorougly debunked.

> As energy flows along meridans (channels), various points along 
> these channels are used to treat imbalances.  These points have 
> been documented for thousands of years.  In recent times, an
> electronic device has been invented which by measuring electrical
> resistance in the skin can pinpoint very accurately the 
> same points as being points of lowest resistance - a bit of a 
> co-incidence ?

Tens of millenia ago ancient physicians scaped holes in a
patient's skull to let out the evil spirits that caused the
patient's head to hurt.  Today, we know that some problems can be
relieved by reducing intracranial pressure.  Coincidence?  Not at
all.  But does that mean we should accept the evil spirit theory
of headaches?  Not at all.

I have no doubt that traditional Chinese medicine has some
treatments that are efficacious in certain ways.  (I also have no
doubt that it has many that are bogus or marginal.)  The issue is
how we can determine which treatments are which.  I doubt that
traditional Chinese medicine has the theoretical and experimental
depth to help us at this.

> Chinese medical theory provides a better explanation than 
> current western medicine for, amoung many others, ...

> Hayfever, ...

Does it have anything to do with pollen, the immune system, 
and histamine response?  If not, how is it a better 
explanation?

> Common Cold, ...

Since traditional Chinese medicine knew nothing of viruses, why
would you consider its explanation of the common cold better?

> Strokes, ...

What did the ancient Chinese know about blood circulation?  The
anatomy of blood supply to the brain?  Artery anatomy and 
function?  Blood clotting?  Artherosclerosis?  Aneurisms?  Brain
morphology and function?  

We now know quite a bit about the phenomena in Michael's list.
I challenge him to show that traditional Chinese medicine has
a better explanation for any *one* of the three listed above.
I would be especially interested in seeing him address strokes.
It will be interesting to see him try to "debunk" modern notions 
about blood circulation, blood chemistry, cardiovascular 
anatomy, brain function, etc.

We await with eager ears.

Russell
From: wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Dry mouth in the morning. Reasons?
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:19:03 GMT
Organization: Red Wolfe @ The Wolves Den
X-Md4-Signature: 11edd7b657007d6d7e53f101d0d927a8

In article <Bw0vMz.Kn1.2@cs.cmu.edu> sjha+@cs.cmu.edu (Somesh Jha) writes:
>
>When I wake up, my mouth is very dry (It feels like I have a bad taste
>in my mouth). After an hour or so in the morning it goes away. What are
>the causes for it? Does this sound very serious?

Snoring often does this.

You must hurry down to the plastic surgeons and have them wire your
mouth shut to avoid loosing you soul at night while snoring. :-)

(Sheesh!  This is a satirical response!)
-- 
G. Wolfe Woodbury @ The Wolves Den, Durham NC	[This site is NOT affiliated  ]
wolfe@wolves.durham.nc.us			[with Duke University! Idiots!]
UUCP: ...!duke!wolves!wolfe      <Standard Disclaimers apply>
    Above All, we celebrate!  --Celebrate the Circle, Statement of Purpose.
From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David A. Nye MD)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Liquid FASTING Diet
Date: 9 Oct 92 07:05:18 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire

In article <1992Oct6.170202.1561@cnsvax.uwec.edu>, mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:
>           
>                Many readers of this article are already familiar with 
>           the important health benefits of apple juice, lemon juice, 
>           apple cider vinegar, distilled water, prune juice, honey, 
>           garlic, and fasting.  I have combined all of these health 
>           helpers into a repeatable four-week cycle of weekly one-day 

Pretty wierd stuff to come out of such an august university, Robert.
:)  Seriously though, what in the world are you talking about?  A
number of the elements of your diet here are positively toxic and
could cause harm.  Did you leave off the smiley face?  And what is
a MH degree?  Can you cite any controlled studies reported in a 
peer-reviewed journal to support your contention of benefits from
this?
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Peroxide and the bubbling reaction?
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:18:21 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.165635.164751@watson.ibm.com> yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo) writes:
>As a followup question, (I realize that there is probably no ironclad rule.)
>how much peroxide should one pour on a cut?  

None will do.  Peroxide isn't all that effective an antiseptic.
You might as well pour seltzer on the wound, for all the benefit
it will have.

>And how often should it be done?  For example, should it be done once
>or every day for the first few days while the cut heals.

A simple superficial cut will do nicely by being washed with soap and
water and then applying a bandaid.  The Truly Paranoid might want to
apply a dab of antibiotic ointment like Neosporin or an iodophor like
Betadine, but it's rarely necessary.

>And also what are the consequences of putting both iodine and peroxide
>on a cut?

First it explodes and then you die.  Seriously, alcohol is rather irritating
to a wound and tincture of iodine doubly so.  Iodophors, substances which
release iodine slowly, like Betadine, are preferred if you're going to use
something like this.  Why bother with peroxide, given what I've said?
At the very least, you'd use it FIRST so as not to wash off the iodine,
right?  Best advice: wash the wound with mild soap and bandage it lightly.


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: kim@techbook.com (Kim Larsen)
Subject: Re: MEDICINE SLOWER TO CATCH UP
Organization: TECHbooks --- Public Access UNIX --- (503) 220-0636
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 04:02:18 GMT

In article <b3gp!tj@lynx.unm.edu> bhjelle@carina.unm.edu () writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.194609.4806@sr.com> dks@srhqla.sr.com (Dave K. Sprow) writes:
>
>>What brought this to my attention again is today's reports on CNN and
>>the newspapers that margarine is bad for you (yes, worse than butter)
>>and that is likely causes heart disease.  
>>
>>"The Agriculture Department has now confirmed the Dutch study."  The
>>particular culprit is trans fatty acids.
>
>This idea has been tossed around in the medical/scientific community
>for years. Now someone apparently is claiming that an ill effect
>has occurred, by doing a (presumably) standard, controlled study.
>Another triumph of Western medicine!
>
>>Again, my only point is to ask the ridiculous, i.e, for the medical and
>>scientific communities to put more of their research dollars into
>>their own research from claims from more alternative approaches of
>>health care rather than just debunking everything from some superior
>
>Eh? I don't recall this particular issue being a cause among
>the "alternative medicine" crowd. In fact, I think few have
>enough chemistry background to realize that hydrogenation
>can produce the "unnatural" trans-fatty acids in margarine.
>

What I find interesting is that I have heard about this issue (hydrogenation
of oils to cause them to be solid at room temperature) in two
"traditional" science classes (chemistry and biology) recently.

In both classes, it was emphasized that margarine had no
particular health benefit over butter.

Hardly a triumph for alternative medicine.

  --Kim

-- 
kim@techbook.COM    Not affiliated with TECHbooks
----------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Lists (was MVP or something or other)
From: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Date: 13 Oct 92 13:09:30 GMT
Reply-To: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Distribution: sci
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <1992Oct9.161824.6127@cs.rochester.edu> fulk@cs.rochester.edu (Mark Fulk) writes:
>By the way, how would you deal with the neurological patient, who,
>unable to remember basic daily details, got through life with a box of
>3x5 cards as a surrogate memory?  This woman actually managed to fly
>to New York and get a cab to Rockefeller University when I worked there...

I think I need to clarify what I'm talking about with regard to lists.
Doctors are not biased against patients writing things down per se - we
certainly encouarge diabetics to keep a log of their glucometer readings,
for example, and for people with particular symptoms to keep a diary of
when they occur, under what circumstances, etc.. Patients with obvious
memory problems would of course be encouraged to write things down.

The people I am talking about are perfectly capable of remembering and
communicating, but instead use a list, which usually resembles a
stream-of-consciousness novel more than a documentation of medical
complaints. The list commonly contains things that most people would
not think of as serious medical complaints, such as "1:30AM had to get
up and get a glass of water" or "Wednesday morning - felt itchy on my
way to work". These people refer all questions to the list, and you
cannot get them to answer the usual questions of a medical history at
all: this is what I find the most suspect, because most people with
medical complaints that bother them enough to seek medical attention
are capable of communicating their feelings and characterization of
complaints to the physician. 

>
>I remember reading a while ago that the the old diagnosis ``maladie de la
>petite papier'' had been eliminated.  This as doctors realized that patients
>with lists were trying to be accurate, and were probably writing down their
>advice as well, in order to follow it better.  Strange to me how perfectly
>rational behavior got classified as a symptom of illness!

The behavior must be taken in context. The "list people" I am speaking of
are people that, even without the lists, would strike me as having some
psychopathology after spending some time trying to do a history and
physical. The list is simply a tip-off. Of course, now someone will say
it's not a tip-off, but that the list prejudices the way I interpret
the rest of the history and physical. Sigh....

 -km
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Giving Blood! "Gimme that thing, I'll do it myself"
Organization: I.E.C.C.
Date: 7 Oct 92 21:52:56 EDT (Wed)
From: johnl@iecc.cambridge.ma.us (John R. Levine)

>[re drawing blood] In my experience it's always been the other way round:
>the "expert" fumbles and the nurse gets it right.  With this sort of motor
>skill, you don't need a postgraduate degree, you need practice.

You can say that again.  If you want to see someone who gets the vein the
first time every time with a rather large needle, drop by your local Red
Cross blood donor center.  When you draw blood 100 times a day, you get
good at it.  And the Red Cross nurses are hardly rocket science types.

Regards,
John Levine, johnl@iecc.cambridge.ma.us, {spdcc|ima|world}!iecc!johnl
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: yazz@locus.com (Bob Yazz)
Subject: Re: Amyl nitrate
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 00:53:09 GMT

cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black) writes:

|     BTW, it's amyl nitrite.

In fact, unless it comes from a pharmaceutical source (it has a medical
role in certain cardiovascular conditions), God only knows what volatile
solvents or other NOx-ious components it might contain.
-- 


Republicans understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child.
        -- Vice President Dan Quayle
From: cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Giving Blood! "Gimme that thing, I'll do it myself"
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:46:29 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <13OCT199209011769@zeus.tamu.edu> jmd9888@zeus.tamu.edu (DURHAM, JAMES MICHAEL) writes:
>In article <1992Oct08.013914.94217@watson.ibm.com>, yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo) writes...

>>the "walking vampire".

>If I am not mistaken I think this person is called a phlabotomist (sp?)

No, that's the liposuction guy. The vampire is a phlebotomist.

-- 
Chris Malcolm    cam@uk.ac.ed.aifh          +44 (0)31 650 3085
Department of Artificial Intelligence,    Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK                DoD #205
Newsgroups: sci.med