HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: "Advocate" editor interviewed on CNN
Date: 14 Oct 92 18:40:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: scd.Bw4Jv3.296
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.1 PL5

Charles S. Collins 726-9461 (chuck@fourier.ssd.kodak.com) wrote:
> [Ellen Seebacher] writes:
> >
> >On the other hand, a number of reporters for GLBO papers have been
> >tracking the _DAN_ Quayle rumor for four years now, but can't get anyone
> >willing to talk on the record.
> 
> On public radio the other night, they played a couple of Quayle quotes
> where the VP insisted that homosexuality is a choice.
> 
> Maybe he had a tougher choice of it than we might imagine.
> -- 
Well, when I was trying to "play it straight", I certainly saw it as
a matter of choice.  And it _was_ tough for me.  Finally, I quit
struggling, and life seems easier.  C'mon, Dan, you can do it!

Mike Drayton      mdrayton@sr.hp.com       Hewlett-Packard Co.
                                           Santa Rosa, California
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 01:08:08 GMT

[Chris Russell asks why we should hold past transgressions against the
transgressors' children, basically]

This is kind of silly, and tries to compare too many different sit-
uations that are not equal at all. Sure, every group has been dis-
criminated against in their history, but that doesn't mean that they
are all suffering for it now. I *am* gentile, so I can't say this
with authority, but I'd guess (and please tell me if I'm wrong) that
Jews are no longer an oppressed class, really; they've been able to
gain positions of power in society and have gotten integrated so well
that I, myself, have difficulty looking around and picking out the
Jews in the mix (in fact, it's never really occured to me to do so,
and I was never really positive that I *wasn't* a Jew until the subject
came up because it concerned be so little). Blacks, however, are still
in a situation where they are held in a position of subservience by
society; it can be viewed as tokenism whenever you *can* find one in a
position of power in regular business or political circles (as opposed
to Black-specific ones, which are of course considered 'special
interest'). Sure, we ain't lynching 'em anymore, but that don't mean
they have it easy yet, and to say that you know their pain because
your anscestors were slaves too is to belittle the discrimination they
face daily (when's the last time you were a victim of blatant racism?).

John, amazed that a group of queers cannot understand this shit.

--
John Dorrance * Alleged Homosexual/Shameless Hussy * thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

			Dark. Handsome. 6 feet tall.
		  31 flavors? I believe he's got 'em all!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney)
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Date: 08 Oct 92 16:02:28 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Windows/DOS Users Ed Group

In article <BvrJyz.MBM@scd.hp.com> mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton) writes:
[deletion]
>Who's Janis Joplin?
>

Just a failed goddess. Never mind. Of no importance.

Can someone tell me why love is like a ball and chain?

-- 
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
	"Well, I'm a little muddled." -- Glinda
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: My Bad Mouth
Date: 15 Oct 92 06:45:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct15.064510.16597
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Oct15.054834.19899@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>One of my trusty informants, who I believe keeps as fair a
>track of my virtues as of my faults, informs me, with
>evidence, that I spoke briefly but moderately ill of John
>Dorrance ten months ago today.

Why should that be considered a fault?  Who hasn't been spoken of
moderately ill of here?  Only those who don't post.  It's a better
example of how little such things matter in the long run.  None-
theless, you can count on the fact that John Dorrance never approached
Matthew Melmon in nastiness or abrasiveness, not by a long shot.

If Melman becomes a beloved member of the family, it won't be because
_we_ changed, that's for sure.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dorsieh@agora.rain.com (Dorsie Hathaway)
Subject: Re: first no on 9 tv ad i
Keywords: _9, Oregon, muffin Measure_9, Oregon, muffin Measure_9, Oregon, muffin Measure_9, Oregon, muffin Measure_9, Oregon, muffin Measure_9, Oregon, muffin Measure_9, Oregon, muffin 
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Distribution: soc
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 05:37:17 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.4342.59140@dosgate> "paul bobbitt" <paul.bobbitt@canrem.com> writes:
>Phone the Governor of Oregon at (503) 378-3111 and urge him to vote
>no on 9.

I've been waiting for a good excuse to demuffin.  

Our governor is named Barbara.  

Please do contact Governor Roberts and let her know how passage of

Measure 9 might affect your traveling and convention 
plans.   

Governor Barbara Roberts
State Capitol 250
Salem, Oregon 97310

Dorsie Hathaway
Shouldn't I have a party now or a cake or something?
i

Dorsieh@agora.rain.com (pleasure account)
Dorsieh@atlastele.com (business)
AOL:  DorsieH


-- 
--Dorsie Hathaway, Technical Writer	INTERNET:	Dorsieh@agora.rain.com
					     		Dorsieh@atlastele.com
				             AOL:	DorsieH		
--Do I look like a fiction writer to you?
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Jason Priestley
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 19:10:57 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <mattm-121092135616@mcmelmon.apple.com>
  <1992Oct13.062104.12094@spdcc.com> <1992Oct13.082109.26085@reed.edu>

Nelson Minar writes:
>I think the proper response to any sentence containing "Jason
>Priestley" is
>
>"Jason Priestley? SQUEEEAL!" followed by much running around, wringing
>of hands, and general excitement.

**NOT**.  Either a mild yawn, or a "Who? Oh. What's on PBS?" or,
perhaps both.
 
() Thomas Edison averaged one new patent every two weeks of
() his adult life.
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Tired and Impatient (was Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 18:05:58 GMT


In article <ldr7f1INNguq@spim.mti.sgi.com>
dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:

>Now, here's a question for you [Stever Dyer] ...  If you
>were given the opportunity to have a one on one lunch with
>Jesse Helms, would you take the invitation?  I certainly
>would...  What about you?

I presume you would agree to this in hope of doing
something, *anything*, to get him to use his powers in less
oppressive ways.  That is, an unimpeachable goal.  And a
goal that one would certainly wish you every success with.

I further assume you know as well as anyone that your
prospects, in any real sense, as are close to zero as it
gets.  So to me it seems one of those "it would be
interesting" (but not too) ideas of the (seriously, I mean
no disrespect) talk's cheap variety.

You could extend this list to include quite a few figures
who are prominent among the oppressors of LGB people.  Pats
Robertson and Buchanan, George Bush and Dan Quayle, Bishop
O'Connor (is that the right name?) in NYC and many others.
All of these people have been argued with, cajoled,
importuned, and pleaded with for years, by people with far
more resources for persuasion than any of us would have
(like really Big Money).

So apart from the hundred-million-to-one chance and a
certain amount of hubris (the latter of which of course I
would not allege), what does this idea have going for it?
In any real terms, wouldn't you be doing more for LGB people
just to make sure *any* one person in your own town had a
lunch who would otherwise not have had it?

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: cjr10@cccvm.ccc.amdahl.com (Chris Russell)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: de-muffining
Date: 16 Oct 92 23:52:16 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corp.

In article <1992Oct16.041059.11386@sol.UVic.CA>
dcunning@engr.UVic.CA (Daniel  Cunningham) writes:
 
>After reading several hundred articles from soc.mots I have decided,
>against my better judgement, to de-muffin.
>
>A few facts about myself :
>- I'm 18 years old, still a virgin and not terribly sure about myself.
>- I've known for most of my life that I'm gay.
>- I've hidden the fact that I'm gay from almost everyone, except for
>  a couple of very understanding friends, for most of my life.
>- I've have been "out" at my university for about five weeks, with
>  the help of a very supporting group.
>- I'm going to my first gay dance tomorrow night.
 
Fantastic!
 
I wish I had had the courage to come out at 18. I was not too
sure of myself back then or a few years later when I started
to emerge. In many respects I'm "out" though I don't tell it
outright to everyone (excepting soc.motss I suppose). If they
ask, they get answered. Most people don't ask (at least from
my experience). I find it to be a continuing process.
 
Chris Russell
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: My Bad Mouth
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:54:54 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <thaaang.719145751@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu
(John Dorrance) writes:

>Out of deduction and backtracking, I can say fairly conclusively
>that I thought Jess Anderson was a complete asshole ten months
>ago today. I feel differently about him now; I should hope that
>there's ample evidence to show.

Ample. Thank you.

See, nothing is forever.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Further Butchification
Date: 10 Oct 92 05:30:16 GMT
Organization: Militant Homosexual Lobby, Gay Lifestyles, Inc.


Robert Coren (coren@osf.org) wrote:
 
> ["Tomate", in German, or so I believe, but never mind.]

Or in Quayle, whichever comes first.

--jns
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Fresh from the oven
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:32:02 GMT

In article <5383@rosie.NeXT.COM> ltucker@next.com writes:
>Why am I posting all of this?   Why does the net need yet another  
>coming out story?

There aren't enough of them.  I still can get choked up at reading
such a wonderful article like yours.  I'm sniffling, my eyes
are watering, and I'm sitting in a damn doorless cubicle at a
customer site...

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ne.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Culture (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Date: 8 Oct 92 03:24:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct8.032432.22151
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <mattm-071092155609@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>I have had very much the same reaction, not only to Dietrich's films,
>but to movies of that period in general.

Of course.  They were made before you were born.

>I do not believe it is a
>function of nationality.  Modern foreign films have a contemporary
>feel.  I, at least, can relate to them in the present.

Melmothra the auteur.  Ah, the modern classique "La Femme Nikita".

>But I have
>always found it difficult to separate the fact that a movie is 
>"A Classic" from appreciation of the movie.

Sort of like those 100 gilt and leather-bound editions of the Great Works
on your parents' bookshelf.  Ah, there's nothing like "A Classic", except
it's more work for the maid to dust.

>In other words, I view it as "A Classic" more than as a movie.

God, you are such a vulgarian.  Your attitude towards one of those
films as "A Classic" is no different than your feeling about an
"Armani Suit".  Something to be Capitalized upon.  And you're so bald
and unaware of yourself.  Listen, Matty, you might be the spawn of the
80's, but the 80's are over; finis.  It's time for you to aspire to
something higher than getting in touch with your inner charge card.

>Often the pacing feels
>sluggish, the dialog quaint, the angles conservative, the costumes
>out of date, black and white photography intrudes, and - in general -
>the whole movie serves more as a window into the past (valuable in
>it's own right) than as a form of 'entertainment.'

I know; so annoying!  A good movie is timeless, though this presumes
you have an attention span, education and sophistication greater than
the typical MTVidiot.  I remember seeing Louise Brooks in _Pandora's Box_
and gasping, gripped at what was happening on screen.  It was a silent
movie--who cared?

>And as to the last of Mr. Carlton's sentences:  "I don't remember it
>and my feelings about it clear enough to be sure."  This may be
>dismissed by The Other as irrelevant; however, it is difficult to
>imagine an icon, the image of which does not create feelings 
>sufficient to remember.

Listen, Melior, you'd better not try hitching your BMW to David's
tow truck.  Knowing him only as little as I do, I'd suspect he'd
say the same thing about your fave iconoblast, that Ciccone girl.

>Were Dietrich an icon today, the statement
>would not have been written.  The feelings would be easily 
>remembered - be they positive or negative.  

Madonna is interesting only insofaras she appropriates earlier images,
feeding them to a new generation who (mistakenly) sees them as her own.
She's also quite shrewd and a master at publicity and manipulating
the media.  But there's not a whole lot new there.  And her predilection
to cause "scandal" is simply cynicism.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: I did it.
From: mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us (mike batchelor)
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 92 21:33:58 PDT
Distribution: world               
Organization: The Batchelor Pad

I did it.  Came out at work today,

I wore black - all black.  Boots, belt, jeans, t-shirt, leather
motorcycle jacket.  The flourescent pink tringle in the center of
the t-shirt was really set off well.  I had a button that said "Nobody
Knows I'm Gay."  A couple of other people came out today, too.

There were a number of comments in my mailbox - most were "Good for
you!"'s, a couple had preambles that went "I don't agree with your
choice, but..."  One of the newly-out started a thread in one of the
cc:Mail folders ("Poopdeck") that announced what the buttons and
slogans on the t-shirts were all about.  A respondent to the thread,
Robert, started in with the "why-do-you-have-to-flaunt-it" routine, and
was soundly trounced upon by a dozen other people.  He spent the rest of
the day removing his foot from his mouth, after having been given a clue.

I defused any remaining hard feelings about it by observing to Robert,
"You know, you and I actually have some things in common sexually.  We
both consider the other to be an inappropriate sexual partner."  He
got a good laugh out of that.

All in all, today was a VERY good day.



[] ---
[] Mike Batchelor <> Long Beach, California
[] mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us <or> mikebat@qdeck.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: brent@syacus.acus.oz.au (Brent Davies)
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Organization: Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Melbourne
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 03:28:00 GMT

ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) writes:

>In article <1992Oct13.153338.3279@wam.umd.edu> lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat) writes:

>>How does one expect to "fix" today by ignoring yesterday?


>Who said ignore?  I said don't obsess.  Look at the analogy for queer
>people.  We used to get burned at the stake.  Then we were locked up,
>and the church has been a force for the deprivation of our rights for
>a long long time.  This does not mean that I wish to burn every christian
>I see, or hate them all.  Focus on the now and talk about the now.
>The past informs the present, but it does not control it, and nobody
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>can make up for past wrongs, they can just try to right the wrongs of
>today.

I absolutely agree with this attitude. Bitterness and hatred because of
past wrongs only saps us; resolve and determination not to allow past 
wrongs to recur only strengthens us. The former loses sight of the
individual, which is the first step towards bigotry; the latter celebrates
the individual, which is the first step towards freedom for all people.

Brent

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: drollin@seq.uncwil.edu (David A. Rollins)
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:15:39 GMT

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>In article <1992Oct12.031823.29080@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>>In what way does motss reflect the whiteness of most of its members?

>Mirror, mirror on the wall...  Discussions of the special issues surrounding
>being gay and being a member of a minority group are pretty infrequent,
>unless you count responses to Arnold Hu's assertions about assimilated
>versus immigrant Asians.  I guess we can be grateful for _something_
>from him. :-)

>>I've pointed out one potential example - the discussion of Marlene
>>Dietrich as an icon.

>I don't think this says too much about "whiteness" or "blackness".
>That's "fag stuff" versus "Sarver stuff".  You know, like what
>David, the Amiga owner said.

>>What are others? What would constitute a
>>discussion of particular relevance to non-white people?

>Well, I have some ideas, but perhaps someone non-white should speak up.


Well, someone non-white did speak up, Steve. I spoke up, but you only
cared about what I felt about your character instead of seeing the
substantive comments made about what Donald had said. I did not agree
with him nor did I agree with you. 

Personally, I don't look at things from a "this does not relate to me
on an ethnic level." I think all of that racial-ethnic-social relativity
is a barrel of crap. Anyone who must have everything spelled out to them
in some ethnic context that relates to them is missing the whole idea
of what living in this country is all about. That goes for non-whites, 
whites, anti-gays, or gays. It is a moot issue.

Where we all need to concentrate our efforts is in educating the masses
about the quality of all members of this society, and how we may
exploit those qualities to benefit the greater good.

If we keep isolating the people via de facto segregation, we will
continue to see the resurgence of prejudice and bigotry at random
groups for a long, long time.

I am sorry that Donald was insulted. I am sorry that he resorted to
violence in response to the insult. I am even sorry that I lashed out
at you in response to what I considered your pomposity, but it helps
no one if we search for isolated topics of relevance to appease the
folks who have enclosed themeselves in a cocoon of ethnic or social
isolation.

-- 
David Rollins                 |  I OWN A COMMODORE/AMIGA 2000.  
Email: drollin@seq.uncwil.edu |  I'M GOOD ENOUGH. I'M SMART ENOUGH,
Voice: 919-763-4115           |  AND DOGGONE IT, PEOPLE LIKE ME!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: gsmith@lauren.uucp (Gene W. Smith)
Subject: Re: Why you people alienate so many...
Organization: IWR, University of Heidelberg, Germany
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 17:25:11 GMT

In article <thaaang.719142199@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John
Dorrance) writes:

>No, actually, I *was* roasted; deserved it, too.

I showed a similar pattern of flamage, in that my first few months had
by far the most flames.  I'm not sure to what extent the flames die
down because people get used to you, and to what extent a change in
posting behavior causes fewer flames, but I suspect both are the case
to some extent.

I am still not sure why I annoyed so many people at first, nor am I
sure that I don't still often annoy people, who have simply ceased to
complain about it. But I suspect the pattern of flaming newcomers,
whatever the cause, is the main reason we keep hearing about a cabal on
this  group.

My recollection is that some of the flames I got were not cabbalistic.
I recall one person who persistently kept after me, until I decided he
really did want to indulge in the dubious joys of a flame war.  I
decided to accomodate his evident desire, and cross-posted what was
supposed to be a fairly tame opening salvo to alt.flame, and set the
followup line to there.  And then nothing happened!  What that was all
about I don't know (and who the person was I can no longer recall.) I
think in this case the unfamiliarity factor was operating.

Some flame wars were more a response to tone than content. I ruthlessly
flamed another motsser in those early months, and was counter-flamed by
all and sundry because of it.  Few of the responses made any sense in
terms of my original post, but it wasn't the content people were 
reacting to, but the form.  I suppose after a while one learns what to
avoid around here.  The mores and customs are different than from other
groups one might already be familiar with.

Then there is the learning curve of *other* people.  After Clay left,
various people chimed in to say that they didn't flame him out of fear
of thermonuclear retaliation.  In my case, I suppose it is possible
that people refuse any more to argue about definitions with me, out of
disgust with the probable consequences.

-- 
     Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/IWR/Ruprecht-Karls University 
               gsmith@kalliope.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Joan-Rhymes (was Re: Sean)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 01:51:11 GMT


In article <1992Oct11.225732.9735@quantime.co.uk>
roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips) writes:

>Last time I had Nelson naked in his room, the toys neatly
>packaged beside the futon, he fell asleep.  So I went to
>work.

I always think of Nelson as modest, and here you are
trumpteting (you strumpet!) his nonexploits around the
*entire* world like.  (Psst!  Roger!  What did you go to
work *on*, hmm?)

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss