HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: HR 4983
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:36:43 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <21202@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>It isn't forcing "that particular host mother into slavery."  Childbearing
>is NOT slavery.  If the woman wants to prevent herself from bearing children
>there are ways of doing that.  Murdering another individual is not one of
>them.

Quite aside from the question of the woman who has taken the appropriate steps
and had them fail, it IS slavery: you would have her serve that fetus for nine
months, regardless of what he choice in the matter would be. What's next? Are
you going to incarcerate her for nine months so she doesn't use the coathanger
approach to freedom?

>This is the same bogus argument that non-custodial fathers try to use.  "But
>I shouldn't have to pay child support because it is slavery."

Actually, this argument falls down by the same reasoning as your argument
about economic parasitism: _anyone_ can provide support for that child *after*
*it's* *born*.

>If we allow this "slavery" line of reasoning to prevail,
>we will see increased justification for abandoning children or refusing to
>pay child support.  After all, if the woman can terminate the financial
>responsibility, so can the man ...

Actually, I support the argument that says that if the woman has the right to
divest herself of the burden of the child, so should the man; I regard the
current situation as inequitable.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by a .sig virus.
"Right now, because of you, this city is being overrun by baboons." "Don't
 you think that's the responsibility of the voters?" -- _Naked Gun 2-1/2_
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: john@johniac.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Subject: Re: separation of church and state
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 15:05:36 GMT
Distribution: tx
Reply-To: johniac@hwperform.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstation Division, Austin, TX

In article <1992Jul30.091451.16073@cactus.org>, cheselka@cactus.org (Michael R. M. Cheselka) writes:
|> Respect is like credit, given out in modest amounts, to see if it is well
|> placed.  Don't you think everyone is due some respect, until you see
|> otherwise?

Sure, but I hear people saying that we should respect a teacher just
because he is the teacher, or that we should respect a police officer
just because she is a police officer.  You're not entitled to respect 
by virtue of your job description.

-- 
John Iacoletti    IBM AWD Austin    Internet: johniac@hwperform.austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
     "Faith:  not *wanting* to know what is true." - Friedrich Nietzsche
From: carder@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Darrell Carder)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: separation of church and state
Date: 24 Jul 92 13:28:32 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin Tx.

In article <1992Jul23.153057.17747@watson.ibm.com> johniac@hwperform.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.184429.28279@oakhill.sps.mot.com>, carder@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Darrell Carder) writes:
>
>|> How about taking on the responsibility of your own actions.
>
>Sounds good to me, but what does this mean in terms of concrete things
>to teach in school?
>
>-- 
>John Iacoletti    IBM AWD Austin    Internet: johniac@hwperform.austin.ibm.com
>        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
>     "Faith:  not *wanting* to know what is true." - Friedrich Nietzsche

You have a good question, this is difficult to put into a structured class. These types
of values are taught by example, wether it be a teacher, friend, parent. etc.
Maybe it would fit in with some of the Social Study classes, I'm not an educator so the 
means of generating course outlines is beyond me.

Since this thread has also discussed sex education, this would be one place that 
responsibilities of ones own actions would fit. That is teach that if a boy and a girl are
going to have sex, are they ready to take on the possible responsibility of a pregnancy,
Yes, I know that there are such things as birth control, but I also know that they are
not 100% effective, and they are only effective if used correctly. If the girl does happen
to become pregnant half the responsibility lies on the boy, he should be ready to help
pay for medical expenses, and delivery of the baby. Although it's against my belief, if they
decide to have an abortion the boy should be ready to help pay for it. 

One other simple moral value that seems to be missing today is Respect.
Respect of teacher.
Respect of parents.
Respect of the Police. (It's more like keep low so he doesn't see me, not me I wasn't speeding :)
Respect of others property.
Respect of the other person regardless of sex, race, ability.



These are my own opinions and views, I know that not everybody will agree with this and
I respect that. I would like to be able to contribute more to these discussions but I am
on a very busy schedule lately and when it's time to leave work I'd rather go home and
spend the time with my children to try and teach them the same moral values that my
Dad taught me.

Darrell Carder
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: HR 4983
Date: 25 Jul 92 17:51:27 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Distribution: tx
Organization: River Parishes Programming, Austin, Republic of Texas

In article <1992Jul21.205515.13341@watson.ibm.com> johniac@hwperform.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti) writes:
>Drawing the line at the presence of heartbeat or brainwaves is just as
>arbitrary as drawing it at conception or viability or birth.  It's
>just the point that makes the most sense to *you*, that's all.

No, it's the point which makes the most sense for the majority of
Americans.  The pro-abortion forces are afraid of the truth - the
truth that a 12 week gestational age child has a functioning brain
that is capable of feeling pain and reacting to it.  This is the
whole objectification trip - pretend the kid isn't a living human
being.

When you ask which age abortion should be outlawed at, the peak in
the curve is about where heartbeat and brainwave activity occur.
Both the "abortion at any time" and "abortion at no time" ends of
the curve vanish towards small numbers.  This is why polls find
that a majority of this country is both pro-life and pro-abortion.
-- 
John F. Haugh II                   | Vida en La Republica de Tejas:
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151            |  A Tejana woman, after spending the rent
UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh |  money on the Tejas Lottery - "I can't go
Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org      |  home, my husband will beat me up."
From: rocky@NeoSoft.com (Joe Mullally)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: HR 4983
Date: 31 Jul 92 14:54:33 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900

In article <L7Lqr*CK0@caleb.UUCP> jdp@caleb.UUCP (Jim Pritchett) writes:
>As for the old "coathanger" red herring, I have little sympathy for someone who
>injures herself in the process of attempting to murder her unborn child.  Such
>a possibility can in no way morally justify allowing/encoraging/condoning
>convenience abortions.

	As did the Roman Catholic Church until the mid-1800's.

>It is really sad that some people actually believe that we should allow the
>murder of over a million babies a year via convenience abortions in order to
>avoid the accidental death of a few women who might die trying to murder their
>own babies.

	It is really sad that men comment on abortion at all. It is really
sad that no anti-abortionist cares a lick about the wide demographic
assortment of women who abort, or cares to learn why it's happening. All
you want to say is: Look how good _I_ am. I suggest you ask "But what am I
_really_ doing for the babies?" I think you'll find the answer is: "Nothing".
Go into the ghettos. Or, demand that our gov't helps bring the shame of
ghettoism to an end. Then, you could answer : "Something." Yes, there are
courses of action available that would be available for both pro- and 
anti-abortionists. It's just that I've seen no anti's suggesting such
courses of action. Are you really so appalled? It doesn't seem so. I'd
like to see less chest-beating, more effective action. To my way of thinking,
when trying to solve a problem, accepting dead ends is necessary, and 
moving on to new solutions is called for.



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Mullally (rocky@sugar.neosoft.com) PH:713-681-2495
"You know what they say about a honey bear. If you shave off all that baby
hair, you have a hairy-minded pink bare bear."- Lou Reed.
From: rocky@NeoSoft.com (Joe Mullally)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: AIDS info to kids? (was Re: separation of church and state)
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:49:59 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900

In article <1992Jul22.154705.14784@watson.ibm.com> johniac@hwperform.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti) writes:
(I wrote):

>|> Find out why kids make the choice to have sex, and try to change
>|> those factors that lead to the act
>
>Why?  There's nothing wrong with having sex.

	There's nothing wrong with driving cars, or drinking alcohol,
either. There _is_ a problem when any of these is performed by folks
w/o properly understanding the mechanics, purpose, and possible
consequences of the act(s). This goes for adults, too, but we can say
with relative accuracy that most kids don't understand. 

>     "Faith:  not *wanting* to know what is true." - Friedrich Nietzsche

	Naive at best, ignorant at worst.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Mullally (rocky@sugar.neosoft.com) PH:713-681-2495
"You know what they say about a honey bear. If you shave off all that baby
hair, you have a hairy-minded pink bare bear."- Lou Reed.
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: HR 4983
Date: 26 Jul 92 17:58:10 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc

In article <00711843674@elgamy.sccsi.com> elg@elgamy.sccsi.com (Eric Lee Green) writes:
>
>I must say that it does seem to be a rational, reasoned response to the
>entire debate about when that zygote becomes a human being. I'm not sure
>whether 5 to 8 weeks is what I would personally prefer as the cutoff, but
>if you're trying to define the "crossing point", brain waves and heartbeat
>generally is the medically-accepted one.

I'm told that human brainwaves don't occur until the 4-5 month range.
I consider a heartbeat irrelevent.

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: john@johniac.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Subject: Re: FLASH! Henry Ross Perot QUITS!
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 16:48:34 GMT
Distribution: tx
Reply-To: johniac@hwperform.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstation Division, Austin, TX

In article <25PaoB2w164w@keys.lonestar.org>, cwinemil@keys.lonestar.org (Chris Winemiller) writes:
|> We _do_ need a Republican Congress for a while. The best we could hope for
|> is a return to relative sanity; the worst we could get is "things as they
|> is." 

I *like* having the president and the Congress majority being from
different parties.  They keep each other in check that way.  If
Congress did everything the president wanted, then we wouldn't need a
Congress. 

|> (Actually, I'm for voting out all incumbents and voting in a new set,
|> no matter what the party. And keep turning them out of office until a set
|> arrives who understands that they have to produce what the electorate
|> wants.) 

They must be producing what the electorate wants, because they keep
getting re-elected.  Either that, or the electorate doesn't know what
the hell it wants.

|> In either case we need a non-gutless president who will be more
|> concerned about building up the home front vs. running around the world
|> giving away our money and our sovereignty.

Agreed.

|>         (Nietzsche is dead!)

"God is dead" - Nietzsche
"Nietzsche is dead" - God

-- 
John Iacoletti    IBM AWD Austin    Internet: johniac@hwperform.austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
     "Faith:  not *wanting* to know what is true." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: john@johniac.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Subject: Re: HR 4983
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 22:51:10 GMT
Distribution: tx
Reply-To: johniac@hwperform.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstation Division, Austin, TX

In article <21202@rpp386.lonestar.org>, jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
|> It isn't forcing "that particular host mother into slavery."  Childbearing
|> is NOT slavery.  If the woman wants to prevent herself from bearing children
|> there are ways of doing that.  Murdering another individual is not one of
|> them.

No, but abortion IS one of them.

|> This is the same bogus argument that non-custodial fathers try to use.  "But
|> I shouldn't have to pay child support because it is slavery."

If the father never wanted the child in the first place, he *shouldn't*
have to support it financially.  The mother should consider this in
her decision whether to keep the child or not.

-- 
John Iacoletti    IBM AWD Austin    Internet: johniac@hwperform.austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
     "Faith:  not *wanting* to know what is true." - Friedrich Nietzsche
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: HR 4983
Date: 26 Jul 92 13:42:57 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <21192@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>Some woman decides that she doesn't want to support the child that
>is within her.  Because the child happens to be dependent on her and
>her along, you claim that she should be allowed to kill the child.
>Do I have it now?

Nope...you're looking at it from a flawed prespective.
A woman decides that she no longer wishes to have a parasitic growth within
het uterus. She decides to terminate that parasitic relationship. As a result
of that termination, the fetus dies. That death is unfortunate, but it cannot
be allowed to overshadow the woman's absolute right to terminate the
relationship. Anything else is slavery.

>And when all of the animals in the animal kingdom protest your eating
>them, will you go quietly?

They don't count. They're animals.

>>The same is not true of a fetus. It is biologically dependent on one
>>particular host mother. No other person will serve.
>So?

So it cannot be allowed to force that particular host mother into slavery for
nine months.

-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by a .sig virus.
"Right now, because of you, this city is being overrun by baboons." "Don't
 you think that's the responsibility of the voters?" -- _Naked Gun 2-1/2_
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: HR 4983
Date: 22 Jul 92 19:50:04 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc

In article <21176@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>
>We've done this argument before.  Calling a human child a "parasite" is
>about as far fetched as this argument goes.  Try crafting an argument
>which is valid within the bounds of agreed upon science.  Try using the
>same definitions for "life" that state law uses.

Just about as far-fetched as calling something with no brain waves or
something with less neural tissue than a flatworm a 'child' or a
'human being'.  I'm curious, John (and others); just where do you draw
the line?  Does merely having human DNA make something a 'human
being'?  Or is there something more than that?

[Please disregard anything you can't demonstrate, like 'has a soul'.
If you can't show it to me, you can't prove it has one.]

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
From: lrk@k5qwb.lonestar.org (Mr. Lyn R. Kennedy)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: FLASH! Henry Ross Perot QUITS!
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:53:21 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Radio Amateur k5qwb

cwinemil@keys.lonestar.org (Chris Winemiller) writes:

> john@johniac.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti) writes:
> 
> > Yes, but I do blame Bush for being such a gutless wonder.  He said "no 
> > new taxes", and he should have stuck by it.  He said "no quota bills"
> > and he should have stuck by it.  Congress has never been able to
> > override a Bush veto, so there was no excuse for his lack of spine. 
> > He let Congress push him around, and he should get called for saying
> > one thing and doing another.
> 
> Hear Hear!  Couldn't agree more.  Bush the Liar.

Given a choice between a liar and truth-teller, the voters always 
choose the liar. It's your (all you voters) fault. You vote for what 
you want to be reality, not what IS reality.


> 
> > His entire campaign so far has been "everything is Congress's fault"
> 
> We _do_ need a Republican Congress for a while. The best we could hope for
> is a return to relative sanity; the worst we could get is "things as they
> is." (Actually, I'm for voting out all incumbents and voting in a new set,
> no matter what the party. And keep turning them out of office until a set
> arrives who understands that they have to produce what the electorate

Republicans, Democrats, etc. They're all politicians. We need problem 
solvers. People who understand what works, not what sounds good to the 
voters.


> wants.) In either case we need a non-gutless president who will be more
> concerned about building up the home front vs. running around the world
> giving away our money and our sovereignty.

Actually, we can do both. If we quit wasting our resources, we could 
easilly out-do Germany and Japan.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 
73,            internet     | lrk@k5qwb.lonestar.org
Lyn Kennedy    packet radio | K5QWB @ N5LDD.#NTX.TX.US.NA
               pony express | P.O. Box 5133, Ovilla, TX, USA 75154

-------------- "We have met the enemy and he is us."  Pogo --------------
From: nhatate@cs.utexas.edu (Nancy Hatate)
Newsgroups: utcs.jobs,ut.jobs,tx.jobs
Subject: USER SUPPORT SPECIALIST - Platteville, Wisconsin
Keywords: The University of Wisconsin - Platteville
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:13:45 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: tokio.cs.utexas.edu

The University of Wisconsin - Platteville is conducting a comprehensive search
and screen process to fill a challenging position in the Office of Information
Technology.  The position title is USER SUPPORT SPECIALIST, and it reports to
the Manager of Desktop Computing.  It is a position which is very important
to the strategic thrust of supporting hardware and software, and it will
provide hands-on support for academic and administrative users of information
technology, including personal computer hardware and software, local area
networks (LAN), telecommunication applications and multi-media.  We strongly
encourage the candidacy of women and minorities.

12-month academic staff position offering a competitive salary package 
(including standard university benefits) commensurate with experience and
qualifications.  Minimum qualifications include:

   - bachelor's degree in computer science, information systems, electrical
     engineering or a related field.
   - 2 years hands-on experience in user support of WordPerfect, Excel,
     Microsoft Word or Quattro-Pro.
   - 1 year experience in a networked environment on the scale of DEC VAX 8350
     with more than 10 users.
   - 1 year experience in design/implementation of distributed LANs such as
     Pathworks or Novell.

Submit resume and names and phone numbers of 3 references to:

   David A. Hart
   Assistant Vice Chancellor for Information Technology
   University of Wisconsin - Platteville
   1 University Plaza
   Platteville, Wisconsin 53818-3099

Applications accepted until AUGUST 17, 1992.  Under a court approved settlement
agreement and Wisconsin Statutes, WUP is required to provide a list of all
nominees and applicants who have not requested in writing that their identity
not be revealed.  Persons agreeing to be final candidates will have their
identity revealed as a final candidate.
From: hirin@tivoli.com (Human Resources)
Newsgroups: tx.jobs
Subject: Offered: Sys Admin Support at Austin, TX Start-up
Keywords: austin, UNIX, administration
Date: 22 Jul 92 14:34:09 GMT
Organization: TIVOLI Systems, Inc.


TIVOLI Systems, a start-up company in Austin, has quickly become the
leading supplier of distributed system management products for heterogeneous
UNIX environments.  We are looking for an experienced UNIX System Administrator
to join our Customer Support team in Austin.

TIVOLI has licensed its distributed system management technology to the
OSF, AT&T USL, and SunSoft.  TIVOLI also sells its products directly to end-
user customers with large, heterogeneous UNIX networks.  TIVOLI customers
include major oil companies, investment firms, telecommunications companies
and semiconductor firms.  TIVOLI is located in the scenic hill country west
of Austin, overlooking Lake Austin.  We have about 60 employees.  All salaried
positions at TIVOLI include stock options.

Responsibilities

1.	Provide technical support to TIVOLI customers in the use of our
	system management tools.
2.	Teach occasional training classes and workshops.
3.	Assist in collecting customer input for future products.
4.	Meet with product developers to resolve problems and prioritize
	product enhancements.
5.	Travel to customer sites for training, consulting and troubleshooting.

Mandatory Requirements

1.	3 or more years of UNIX system administration experience 
	in a large, heterogeneous UNIX environment required.
2.	5 or more years of UNIX experience required.
3.	Excellent verbal communications skills required.
4.	Excellent customer support attitude and support skills required.
5.	C programming and Shell programming experience required.
6.	US Citizenship or permanent resident status required.
7.	Ability to travel required.

Desired Background

1.	Bachelor degree in computer science or related field strongly desired.
2.	Experience with C++ and object-oriented programming preferred.

If you meet all of the mandatory requirements, please send your resume
(plain text only -- no troff, TeX, PostScript, etc.) to:

Internet:	hiring@tivoli.com
UUCP:		...!cs.utexas.edu!tivoli!hiring
FAX:		1+512-794-0623 (Attn: VP Customer Operations)

No phone calls please.  We regret that we cannot reply to resumes which
do not meet all of the mandatory requirements listed above.

TIVOLI Systems is an equal-opportunity employer.
Xref: sparky tx.jobs:287 misc.jobs.resumes:4872