HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: m0102@tnc.UUCP (FRANK NEY)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Travelling Through States
Date: 27 Aug 92 13:22:56 GMT
Organization: The Next Challenge, Fairfax, Va.



The town of Falls Church, Va has a law against transportation of 
firearms through or in the town excepting law enforcement.  This
ordinance is supposedly now overridden by federal law, but it will
cost you $15,000 and some months of your life to establish this.
 
I understand the People's Republik of New Jersey has a similar
attitude, from news reports of Sports personalities arrested on
various BS charges.

Frank Ney N4ZHG EMT-P  NRA ILA GOA CCRTKBA "M-O-U-S-E"
Commandant and Acting President, Northern Virginia Free Militia
Send e-mail for an application and more information
From: tmoore@wildwood.tinton.ccur.com (Tim Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Mail call
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:08:10 GMT
Organization: Concurrent Computer Corporation


"Edward J. Rudnicki" (FSAC-SID) <erudnick@pica.army.mil> inquires....

->Ruger doesn't produce any firearms from either zinc or plastic (or do they?);

Don't know about zinc but what about the new plastic frame for the old
MK II .22?  What do they call it, MKII/45 or something like that in 
reference to its grip angle being the same as a 1911 (sorry Ed, I said
a bad word :-)

--Tim Moore
From: efk00@cd.amdahl.com (Eddie Kieger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Beretta 92 problems
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:21:29 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


In article <17egf9INN1ec@agate.berkeley.edu>,
ho%helen.CS.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Kinson Ho) writes:
#I have a couple of questions for owners of the Beretta 92FS (9mm,
#fullsize)
#
#a. Are you happy with its performance?  Have you had problems with it?
#>   How many rounds have you put through it?  (I am interested in long
#   term reliability.)  Do you have the blued or stainless model?
#   Is rusting a problem?
#
#
#b. [I am aware that the cracked frames in the armed services trials 
#    were attributed to "hot" ammo.]

I can comment on the MILITARY problems with the 92FS. The problem stemmed
from the AMERICAN made frames. The Italian frames were all OK. This info 
was supplied by our armorer at my reserve unit (USN SPECWAR) who recently
returned from a visit to Crane Indiana (home of the Navy's "toy shop" for
SPECWAR units). Italian made Berettas are supposed to have a life of approx.
30-35,000 rounds. This is in comparison to the Sig-Sauer that we also use
which is 5-10,000. 

#   
#   Does anyone have similar experiences?  If there is any truth
#   in these stories, has the problem been corrected?  The local 
#   gun stores will not say anything.
#
#
#c. Does the 92 feed the popular hollowpoints without jamming?  
#   
#
#d. If you had to do it over again, would you choose the 92?
#


I love the gun. Shoots VERY nicely.>
#Kinson Ho

Hope I helped, Eddie

Don't tread on me..........................................I bite
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Eddie Kieger                             efk00@cd.amdahl.com 
For Pay:      System Design Engineer     Amdahl Corp.
              Bringing you better mainframe computers
For Fun:      "River Rat"                SBU-XI SPECWARGRU1 (USNR)
              Bringing hellfire and brimstone to a river near you!
From: cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Chinese Type 63 Rifle
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:04:53 GMT
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH

As quoted from <9208311643.aa16009@claudius.pica.army.mil> by erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID):

# 
# Rob writes:
# #The Type 63 has a one-piece stock like the SKS, but the action
# #is different and I believe it takes detachable magazines.
# 
# Sounds like the Type 68? AK action with SKS stock, normal mag 15 or 20
# rd loaded from stripper clips, but accepts 30 rd AK mag?

I believe that they were originally called Type 68 in the west, but that was
revised recently to Type 63.  It takes magazines of its own, but can be modi-
fied to take AK type magazines.


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------  

"Well whose opinions did you THINK these were...?" 
------------------------------------------------------------------  
"It's 11:59pm, do you know where your congressman's checkbook is?"
------------------------------------------------------------------ 
Christopher Morton
{uunet|backbone}!ncoast.org!cmort                      cmort@ncoast.org
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Is a pocket gun really a pocket gun?
Date: 4 Sep 92 12:57:16 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

davidst@microsoft.com (David Steckler) writes:

##Would the .22 mag be appreciably better than .22 LR stingers out
##of the same size gun?
#A question: does the word "stingers" just imply a hot load? I've seen 
#this word a couple of times and have never seen the defintion.

	It is the brand name for the hottest ammo sold for .22 LR.
CCI makes it, and I chronyied it at 1075+ fps average (32 gr) from my 
2.5" barreled Jennings autoloader.  The runner up, Rem Yellowjackets,
were 950 fps (33 gr) but expanded more (like dimes in clay), and Rem 
hi-vel RN (40 gr) 860 fps, are another fave, but nowhere close to the
stingers.   Out of a 5.25" Ruger, Stingers get 1320+ fps.  Out of a 
18" rifle, they get 1600+ fps.


#BTW, on this subject, I bought a Baretta 21a (22LR) the other day for those
	Problems...
#1. It needs very hot loads to work properly. The Federal High Velocity ammo

	Try some stingers.  If they were good enough for James Brady's
brain, by God, they are good enough for my Jennings, I say.    (^8'

#On the whole a nice pocket gun; it was, though, quite the nice suprise to pick
#up my Glock 23 and run a few rounds through it after shooting the Baretta.
#***BANG*** instead of ***POP*** :)
#	...Dave

I like to alternate also.  My .45 goes ***BOOM*** instead of ***JAM***.

Jim Del Vecchio
From: breslau@watson.ibm.com (Art Breslau)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 13mm Mauser T-gewer
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:44:06 GMT
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

I have located a 13mm Mauser T-gewer (Tank und Flieger Abwehraffe) A.K.A. "Tank
killer". Only about 15,800 made, weighs in at 39 lbs. I'm looking for chamber
dimensions. handbook of cartridge conversions doesn't list them. Old Western
Scrounger doesn't have ammo. Will need to have RCBS make up dies, then try and
find brass to make up, let alone the projectiles. Checking with BATF on its
status. Last I saw, thought it was on curio list.
From: kdw@icd.ab.com (Kenneth D. Whitehead)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: :Re: Stupid Shooter Tricks
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:20:33 GMT
Organization: Allen-Bradley Company, Inc.

forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes:

#There was a store in the Arizona Republic last year with a similar 
#situation.  A 16 yr old boy was sitting in his room playing with
#a bullet (I think it was a 9mm or .45).  He hit the end of the 
#cartridge and it discharged sending the bullet throught the wall
#an into his mother (she was only mildly injured).  

n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)  replies:

#	I don't understand how this could happen.  It seems to me that
#the only possibilities would be:

#	A)  The _case_ would fly back, away from the bullet, because 
#the case is far less massive than the bullet.
#
	B)  The case would shatter, spewing hot brass chunks.


#In either case, I would not expect the bullet to go anywhere.

I think you're probably right, James.  Last winter I took my 10 year
old nephew, as well as one of my (adult) friends and his boys to my
camp in Pennsylvania.

We had been letting the kids shoot several different firearms under
adult supervision (.22's, as well as a 20 gauge single shot), and after
we were done, we took all the firearms inside.  The kids remained outside
with their BB guns (we didn't figure they could get into TOO much 
mischief;  oh well, I guess we should have remembered when WE were kids...)

Unbeknownst to us, one of the kids had pocketed a 20 gauge shell, and he set 
it on the picnic table, placed the muzzle of his BB gun against the primer, 
and fired.  The shell went off with a loud POP!

The adults went outside to see what had happened, and there were three
little kids standing around with white faces.  The empty hull was about 
fifteen feet from the picnic table, ruptured out the side of the shell.
All of the shot was laying right in the picnic table.

Without the barrel to constrict the shell and direct the shot, the explosion
had taken the path of least resistance (out the side, rather than the end), 
and the heavy stuff (the shot) stayed behind while the light part (the hull)
was what went flying.  (Needless to say, the kid that pulled this trick. my
nephew, has lost his shooting privileges for at least several years...)
From: post@hpfcso.fc.hp.com (David Post)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gun Safe
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:07:21 GMT


In a previous posting, I was wrong stating that no gun safe has a certified
fire rating.  Browning has one line, the Sierra series.  They don't say who
the certifying laboratory is in the flyer, though.  However the wall steel
is only 12 gauge steel.

I was told by a National Security sales person that walls, at the corners are
most vulnerable to attack.  ( So look for the presence of inside weld beads,
I guess.  That is what they had. )

Since walls seem like the most vulnerable point of attack, and since I had
some flyers out, here is a summary on wall thicknesses:

Manufacturer        Line                 Wall Thickness    Door Thickness

Browning          Deluxe                 1/4 inch           3/8

                  Other Gold series      12 gauge           3/16

                  Silver series          1/8                3/16

                  Lightweight, 
                  Efficiency and Sierra  12 gauge           3/16


Treadlock
(Am.Rifleman advert.)                    11 gauge


National Security
                  Mini-Mag               3/16 min          1/4

                  Mini-Mag Plus, 
                  Mini-Mag Jr            3/16 min          3/8

                  H-700                  3/16 min          3/8

                  H-800                  3/16 min          "laminate"

                  Magnum models          1/4               "laminate"


Fort Knox         Yeager series                            5/8

                  Executive series                         3/8

                  Guardian                                 1/4

                  Protector                                3/16
=========================================================================

David Post  davep@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com  hplabs!hpfcla!post
From: dwc@philabs.philips.com (David W. Cuccia)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Black Talon Bullets
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:01:57 GMT
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff Manor, NY.



I was visiting my brother a while back, and found his July copy of Shooting
Times. In it was an article about Black Talon bullets. I forget who the
manufacturer was. The idea behing these bullets is a specially shaped jacket
that expands on impact in such a way that small points of the jacket are
extended at right angles to the bullet body. These bullets were said to incur
serious wound channel damages to the target.

My question is, has anyone else heard of these things? They're still in the
experimental stage (supposedly). Are they really as effective as the article
says? Have other magazines run similar articles on this bullet? I'm trying to
get my brother to mail me a photocopy of the article, but until then, can
anyone tell me the manufacturer of these bullets?


Thanks in advance.

Yours truly

Dave W. Cuccia

email: dwc@philabs.philips.com

(as with everything I say, write, or create, it ain't my fault, I deny it , it
certainly wasn't my company's idea).
From: berenson@cookie.enet.dec.com (If you think software is complex, try relocating!  28-Aug-1992 1553)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Moving Sale
Date: 28 Aug 92 22:38:20 GMT

It's time to lighten the load for my move to New Hampshire, so I'm
offering the following items for sale.  Out of state buyer pays shipping,
and (for firearms) any FFL handling charges on their end.  I'm the legal
owner of the following items;  buyer must meet legal requirements for
possession and transfer.  (End obligatory legalese).

I live in Colorado Springs, CO.

Email: berenson@cookie.enet.dec.com (preferred method of contact)
Phone: 719-576-0632 (evening)

        10mm Colt Delta Elite (1911) based Comp Gun     $725
        Heine Compensator w/front sight
        Millet Adj Sights
        Beavertail Grip Safety
        Ambi Thumb Safety
        Magwell
        Full-length Recoil Guide
        Bead-blasted Blued Finish
        Condition: NRA Very Good to Excellent

        TZ-75 Series 88 Tangfolio CZ-75 Clone           $250
        9mm, 17 Round
        Cocked-and-Locked Carry Mode
        DA/SA
        Condition: NRA Excellent
        
        Colo Cast 185gr FP 10mm/40S&W Practice 1000+    $30

        Colo Cast 185gr FP 10mm/40S&W 500+              $20

        Colo Cast 155gr RN 10mm/40S&W 1500              $55

        Kleenbore TW25B Lube (New)                      $3.00

        Safariland 38" BBW Belt (New)                   $25

        Safariland 077 BBW 1911 MagPouch (Qty 2, New)   $12 Each

        Safariland 008 BBW RH Final Opt. Holster  (New) $70

        Safariland 077 Brown 1911 Magpouch (New)        $10

        TZ-75 Magazine                                  $20

        Mongo's Munitions 160gr RNL Sized .356 Qty 100  $3

        Aimtech 1911 No-Gunsmithing Scope Mount (New)   $25 SALE PENDING

.............................................................................

Hal Berenson	

Home: 71640.3535@compuserve.com
Work: berenson@cookie.enet.dec.com

-- Disclaimer: Opinions expressed here are my own, not my employer's! If
I happen to communicate with you from work rather than home, its just
for convenience (just like asking for a "daytime phone number") and should
not be construed as representing the views of my employer or its
employees, officers, directors, or stockholders. --
From: fcrary%ocf.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why a sawed-off shotgun?
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:34:24 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility

In article <+sqy!x#@rpi.edu> vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John S. Van Etten) writes:
#I've seen this at least half a dozen times both in t.p.g and here.
#And I've e-mailed a couple of people about this and both ignored me.

I'm very sorry to say I'm one of those people... I hope you'll accept my
appology, based on alot of confusion while I was moving.

#So I'm going to throw it out to rec.guns in general and ask if
#*anybody* has a reference to short-barreled shotguns used in the
#military.  The trench guns of WWI and WWII (including Win M97 and M12,
#Stevens M520 and M620, etc., etc.) all had 20-in. barrels, which is a
#full 2 inches over the limit.  Even the current issue Mossberg M590
#has a 20-in. cylinder tube with 2-3/4" chamber, as per the original
#spec.  The military has *never* used a "trench gun" with a short
#barrel, at least not by that name.  Is there something I've missed?

I have heard the from two people, that their grandfater claimed to have
used one during the First World War. One specified that the weapon was
not standard issue (e.g. his grandfather decided he needed a sawed-off
shotgun, so he got his own.) This isn't a very good source, but...

						   Frank Crary
						   CU Boulder
						   (even though I'm
						   still using my 
						   Berkeley account...)
From: smrtstr!syspb@uu.psi.com (Paul)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: CA gun laws -- in cars (waS Re: Travelling help)
Date: 28 Aug 92 22:38:10 GMT
Organization: SmartStar Corp. / Signal Technolgy Inc.

I live in California, and I have a question about transporting a
gun while riding a motorcycle.  Is there any way to legally do this?
With a car, you can lock it in the trunk.  What if you don't have
a trunk?  And what about rifles?  Would a locked case be good enough
for transporting them?
From: keith@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca (Keith de Solla)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: identifying ammo
Date: 26 Aug 92 02:14:24 GMT
Organization: Canadian Microelectronics Corporation

I have a couple of cartridges I would like to identify:

1. 9mm Luger:  The bottom of the case says 'WCC', '90', and contains
a circle with a '+' in it.  Any idea who makes this?

2. 7.62mm NATO: the bottom says 'IVI' (Imperial perhaps?), '81', and
also contains a circle with a '+' in it.  Would this have corrosive
primer in it?
My suspicion is Canadian military ammo, but I would like to verify
this.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
| Keith P. de Solla        | "I don't enforce the law, I regulate |
| CMC                      |  human behaviour"                    |
| keith@orion.ic.cmc.ca    |    - Commissioner Scali              |
From: messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: I'm baack
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:43:56 GMT
Organization: Messina Software

U16244%uicvm.uic.edu@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU writes:

#Has anyone of you guys gotten a hold of a Colt M2000 and tried it out?  It
#looks really interesting, and I was wondering if it was as good as the
#magazines said.  Same goes for the new Browning BDM.

Yeah.  It's got *the worst* trigger of any handgun I ever tried.  It
feels like it's suspended on a rubber band, with the corresponding,
uneven and mushy pull.  Horror.

#All you class three fanatics out there, this one's for you.  Do you happen
#to know if the Polish version of the Mivro-Uzi or Ingrahm M-11 is still
#being produced?  Not that it'll ever get into this country being a full auto
#military sidearm, but I'm curious.  And have any of you ever tried it out?

Tried it long time ago, have no idea if it's still being made.  It's been
so long...


Tony
From: kemasa@ghost.hac.com (Kemasa)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hand-loads for defense (was Re: Occasional Dud in Glock 20)
Date: 29 Aug 92 02:59:22 GMT
Organization: Natural Order Nature Experiments (N.O.N.E.)


In article <tmi.714981040@well.sf.ca.us> tmi@well.sf.ca.us (Peter Kasler) writes:
#In <1992Aug26.220729.10055@ke4zv.uucp> ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:
#...
##BTW *all* 18 police departments that I deal with shoot and carry
##*reloaded* ammunition. If it's good enough for the cops, it should
##be good enough for the civies.
#
#	You certainly miss the point. Read Russ Kepler's post on this
#subject and perhaps you'll begin to get it. The cops can use reloaded
#ammunition with little or no fear of recriminations whereas civilians
#who attempt the same thing are inviting trouble in the event of civil
#litigation arising out of a defense shooting.
#...

Maybe it should be pointed out that using reloaded ammunition is NOT
the problem, at least as I see it, it is using ammunition that *you*
reloaded. If I buy reloaded ammo from a store it is quite a bit
different than if I do it myself because of how it looks. I think
this would also be true if a police officer was using ammo that
they reloaded.

If you reloaded the ammo then it will be questioned as to how hot
you loaded it, what bullet you used, etc. There is more to
question you on. If you bought it from the store there is little
to say except for what your selection was, but from the store
you are using commonly available ammo which many people use.
-- 



						 Kemasa.

Insanity is the best defense.

Sierra Club Leader	NRA Life Member		Pro-freedom	Pro-choice

e-mail address: kemasa@ghost.hac.com
From: tmi@well.sf.ca.us (Peter Kasler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Concealed carry...
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:04:21 GMT
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link

In <13400033@iftccu.boeing.com> bressler@iftccu.boeing.com (Rick Bressler) writes:

#Probably flame time again, but here goes.  All the professionals I've
#talked to or read about recommend strong side waist level holster.  This
#will generally give you the best speed on a draw and depending no your
#normal mode of dress will often be very concealable.  

	Speaking as a professional in this regard, I personally carry
on my strong side at the waist. As a trainer who works with others who
carry concealed on a regular basis, I also know that where/how to
carry is very much a personal decision; what is right for one person
may be wrong for another. It does seem to be the case, however, that
new folks to constant-carry settle on strong side waist mode more than
any other (usually only after trying just about every alternative).

#Anybody who seriously carries a gun full time will probably attest that 
#you do have to make compromises.  It isn't nearly as glamorous as Hollywood
#portrays.  In fact, it's often a pain in the butt.  (surprise)

	Amen! I've carried full-time, all day every day for nearly a
quarter-century now and one does have to make compromises... and it is
a real pain! Exactly where the pain occurs, however, depends upon
where and how one carries, one's particular anatomy and lifestyle,
etc., but wherever else the pain may be, it is still a pain in the
butt.

-- 
                           Peter Alan Kasler
                      Threat Management Institute
                 800 West Napa Street, Sonoma, CA 95476
     Voice: 707-939-0303  =  tmi@well.sf.ca.us  =  Fax: 707-935-1713
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: CA gun laws -- in cars (waS Re: Travelling help)
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:43:36 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <9208241654.AA02321@gtephx.com> forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes:
}
}What if the vehicle you're driving does not have a trunk?  
}(IE: a minivan or an S-15 Jimmy.)  
}
}Would a combination or key locked brief-case suffice for being 
}locked?

Yes, but keep ammunition in a separate container.  Try to keep both out
of easy reach from the passenger compartment.

}Also, what about having handguns (yes, of course I meant plural!)
}in a hotel/motel room?

As I interpret the CRPA's interpretation of the laws, it's legal.  The
hotel room is your residence and it's legal to have guns in your home.  I
wouldn't want to argue it in court, though. (And I'm _not_ a lawyer).

As a practical matter, you're not likely to need them in any of the major,
or even minor, hotels.  I'd check them into the hotel safe (in locked
containers -- no need to worry the staff).

}If I remember right, we'd better keep 'em in cases between the
}car and the room (???).

Yes.

}Finally, being only vaguely familiar with the geography of LA, 
}are there any areas close to Disney Land which would warrant
}having the gun unlocked (read: accessible but out of sight)
} anyway? ...

Disneyland is an island in a sea of hotels, motels, restaurants and
assorted minor tourist traps.  There's very little reason to walk the
streets around there, but the neighborhood is reasonably safe as such
things go.  At least, it was when last I was there, about two years ago.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405