HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: srg0913@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Sharon Rosenberg )
Subject: Re: Same sex partners
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 13:58:16 GMT

jmangin@asrr.arsusda.gov (JULIE MANGIN) writes:


>Back in 1986, I attended a small dance camp that had only 70 campers, 25
>women and 45 men.  Needless to say, the men danced with each other, in
>order for some of them to dance at all.  It wasn't unusual for an entire
>square to be entirely of men.  So, they began wearing bandanas on their
>head, in a way that a woman would, if they were dancing the woman's part.
>This prevented a lot of confusion, and everybody got to dance.  

It's good to have some sort of method to tell people who aren't experienced 
with same-sex parnterings who is dancing what part.  Because in WSD there are
usually more women than men, women dancing the men's part will often wear a 
hat to distinguish them as the guy.  Of course, then there was our dance Monday
night, where we squared up a square with eight guys and a square with eight 
gals.  The women dancing the men's parts in the all women square took off their
petticoats and gave them to the guys dancing the women's part in the all guy
square.  Man, I hope the pictures came out!   :-)

-- Sharon
===============================================================================
 -- These are facts.       |Sharon Rosenberg --         |        
 -- Facts are the enemy    |srg0913@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu    |   I am NOT short! 
     of truth.             |Petunias, QL convert, M-1.75|   I'm vertically 
 Dr. Carusca & Don Quixote |Square-dancer, Mary's Roomie|     challenged!      
   "Man of La Mancha"      |"Don't call me Doc!"        |
===============================================================================
From: rsholmes@rodan.syr.EDU (Rich Holmes)
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing
Subject: Cheer up, dammit (was Re: contra-gypsies)
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:13:43 GMT
	<1992Apr10.190439.18656@ima.isc.com>
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
In-reply-to: trb@ima.isc.com's message of 10 Apr 92 19:04:39 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.190439.18656@ima.isc.com> trb@ima.isc.com
(Andrew Tannenbaum) provides an opening for me to kvetch:

>I find that when I dance, depending on how I feel about life that day
>and about the fellow dancer in question, that I might not be in the
>mood to "imitate lovemaking itself" with this particular fellow dancer,
>as is my right.  So I look, perhaps blankly, into her eyes, and do the
>gypsy or swing or whatever.  I'll sometimes get comments like "cheer
>up, it can't be that bad" or something like that.  If you dance all the
>time, you're not gonna be sunny-side up every time, let's face it.

Right then, time for me to amplify on this one. I do not have a happy
face. I don't have a natural smile. About the best I can manage on a
continuous basis is a grimace you wouldn't *want* to look at, or else
a very subdued smile that, under my mustache, looks more like a frown.
That's me, folks. 

Those who dance with me a lot know that when I'm dancing, I'm usually
enjoying myself immensely even if the shape of my mouth doesn't show
it. Those who don't -- some of them -- a few of them -- decide I'm
either not happy or not doing my job by smiling. "SMILE! IT CAN'T BE
THAT BAD!" they say. And they're right, because it just got worse.

Once a woman at a dawn dance told me to smile about the third time
through, and when I still didn't show enough teeth to satisfy her, she
spent the rest of the dance not looking at me and when it was over,
walked away from me without a word.

When you dance with an overweight person, do you say, "Lose some
weight, lardbutt?" When you dance with a short person, do you say,
"Buy some elevator shoes, pipsqueak?" No?

Well, then, when you're dancing with a smile-challenged individual,
show the same kind of tolerance. Pay some attention to the eyes, the
body language, and so on, and you're likely to find your partner
really is happy and having a wonderful time. If so, and even more so
if not, demanding a forced, continuous smile isn't likely to lead to
better feelings.
--
 - Rich Holmes                            rich@suhep.bitnet or
   Syracuse U. Physics Dept.              rich@suhep.phy.syr.edu

		 How's my .sig?  Call 1-800-WAR-LORD
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing
From: viscuso@galileo.tc.cornell.edu (Paul Viscuso)
Subject: Re: contra-gypsies
Organization: Cornell Nat. Supercomputer Fac.
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 20:11:31 GMT

In article <204884@unix.cis.pitt.edu>, UROBIN@UNC.BITNET writes:
|> One of the most interesting things about the responses to Tom Wills's
|> gypsy comments is that all 10 I've seen were from men.  What does that
|> mean?  And why do you supposes the move is called a gypsy, anyhow?

It may mean that most of the readers of this newsgroup are men.  I don't know.

|>  
|> For those of you who think that disliking a particular move means that
|> you ought not to be dancing, lighten up!  This is supposed to be a forum
|> to generate discussion, not shut opinion off.  Of course, even though
|> I don't like gypsies much myself, I'd settle for a gypsy any day over
|> the "kissing contras" reportedly done in Ann Arbor.  Reminds me of the
|> one time I went to a WSD open house, and there was a mixer where you
|> had to hug every partner, and then the CALLER got to hug every woman
|> of every couple as she walked by him.  I just think certain things
|> should be discretionary; kissing, hugging, and gazing longingly at
|> another person all go in that category for me.
|>  
|> Which brings me to my main objection to gypsies, which Terry Friedman
|> touched on in his comments.  Down here where Tom and I both dance there
|> are several local callers who like gypsies so much you just know that
|> a good number of the dances they call will have a gypsy, and it's
|> usually of the meltdown variety.  Even if the first is fun, by the
|> fourth gypsy dance you're pretty much gazed out.  Also, these particular
|> callers just about order the dancers to flirt outrageously and fall into
|> a swing when you can't stand it any more (I'll say), which pretty much
|> removes any spontaneity the move might have had.  So, a note to callers,
|> vary the dances, and don't be tellin' the dancers HOW to have a good
|> time.  Usually we manage to figure that out.

My own limited experience contra-dancing in NY state and New England is that
the gypsies were handled well by callers and dancers alike.  I can't remember
off-hand dancers having problems with the gypsy, either not liking it or not
having fun with it.  I think I've said more than my share already about this
subject.

|>  
|> Robin Schectman, Chapel Hill NC    urobin@unc.bitnet


Paul Viscuso
Cornell Theory Center
From: tzf@cs.arizona.edu (Theron Friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing
Subject: Re: contra-gypsies
Keywords: contra, sex, parody
Date: 8 Apr 92 06:38:09 GMT
Reply-To: tzf@cs.arizona.edu (Theron Friedman)
Organization: U of Arizona, CS Dept, Tucson


|> 
|>      I am writing to solicit comments of dancers' and callers'
|> feeling for the contra dance figures gypsy and gypsy meltdown.
.......
|> socio-sexual interactions which are subtler in other moves,
|> but charged with fully as much longing, seem in the gypsy to be
|> done on command.
|>      It's a setup:  you are constrained at the caller's whim to
|> engage in the imitation of desire.  This
|> is not so bad when the dance calls for a gypsy between chosen
|> partners (with whom you could agree to disobey and just swing)
|> but is insulting when done with every neighbor down the pike.
|> It then becomes an enactment of Hell, where a frozen grin and
|> a stare replace real interaction.(Compare with the scene in
.......
|>      Second:  it's boring.  This has to be the least active of
|> all moves.
|>      Third:  the so-called meltdown due to spontaneous combus-
|> tion is for most dancers a sham.  What people actually do is
|> gypsy half the allotted beats, then swing.


Context, context is all. (who said that? anyone interesting?) ....
Anyhow, I've never seen quite as torrid a painting of contra socio-sexual
interactions as you present %) Is this the way you perceive dancing, or is
it the way your caller presents the move(s)?

Nothing against sex in dancing, really, but I've always seen it as a much
lighter and more playful thing, at least in the contra context; I'd more
expect my partners' eyes to twinkle than to smolder; even the infamous
Ann Arbor "kissing contras" seemed more parody than passion. 

With that context, I enjoy the gypsy & gypsy meltdowns; they present lots
of room for play & improvisation, both with the timing and with the
flirtation. Forget the combustion for a while, think of it as ice
skating: slow wind up and then into a spin. If everyone's locked into
1/2 gypsy 1/2 swing, keep 'em on their toes by grabbing one partner
early, or refusing to touch another partner until the last two beats
(talk about longing!). Or try doing the gypsy touching noses. Or
doing a Groucho Marx walk ("how low can you go?") .... or, with a
willing co-conspirator (preferably one with dental insurance) stealing
a kiss before (or continuing into) the swing .... much easier from the
gypsy lead-in than from a stamping balance, let me assure you.

[side note on sex in contras: after one Morris Ale in A2 we had a contra,
and I was partnered with a lass from one of the visiting east coast sides.
So I mentioned the abovementioned "kissing contra" tradition, pointing out
various couples puckering-up on the forward&back; she shrugged her
shoulders ("when in Calcutta ...") in agreement, and we had a pleasant
dance. After it was over I thanked her and said "by the way, let me tell
you about our after-contra traditions." For some unfathomable reason she
shrieked and ran out of the hall. Sigh.]

Thaz my $.02, 'n I'll squander it where I please.

	terry zf
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing
From: HF.SLK@forsythe.stanford.edu (Stewart Kramer)
Subject: Re: Dancing Do's and Don'ts
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 23:18:42 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.165236.20870@ads.com>,
charleen@ADS.COM (Charleen Bunjiovianna) writes:
>Helena says we should remember that we were all beginners once.  I say
>that we still are; the nature of the activity is such so that you can't
>say "I've learned everything I need to know to dance perfectly."  (With
>the possible exception of Stewart. :-)

Well, I beg to differ.  Dancing perfectly is not a matter of knowing
things, but of being perfect, which no one (including me) can be.

Challenge dancing depends on ruthlessly stamping out errors:
studying can teach you to pass the correct shoulder and turn the
correct direction, and experience can make you aware of mental traps
(e.g., forgetting interrupts, misparsing nested concepts, etc.) and
"red flag" situations like Pass In vs. Quarter In (where knowledge
must fight against intuition), but nothing can be done about failure
to pay attention.

Currently, most of my errors are from hearing what I expect to hear
rather than what was said, or from hearing the name of one call and
thinking of a different call (like saying "Blue" while thinking
"Green").  In either case, I usually catch these errors unless
something distracts me (because I've studied the flow of the calls
so that I can recognize these errors in others and say helpful
things like "not Split" at appropriate times; this same ability
enables me to recognize the call that I'm doing, or that everyone
else is doing, so I can say "Roll the Line, not Roll 'Em" to
myself.)

Stewart Kramer
---
"With a sharp enough knife, you can halve your cake and eat it two."
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing
From: pciszek@isis.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek)
Subject: Re: contra-gypsies
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 02:19:40 GMT

Well, I for one LIKE the Gypsy.  I find that most women either meet my
intent Valentinoesque stare with equal melodrama, or break out laughing.
We're supposed to be having FUN, dammit.

Of course, I am also fond of the "balance-and-STOMP!" move.


--
Paul Ciszek, pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu | Saddam Hussein still has a job; do you?
From: jmangin@asrr.arsusda.gov (JULIE MANGIN)
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing
Subject: The 12th Annual Coal Country Convention
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:53:09 GMT


I have attended this camp for the last four years, and highly 
recommend it.  The Coal Country Convention gets The Daily Clog 
seal of approval!!!


           The Twelfth Annual Coal Country Convention

                         May 1-3, 1992

                          Somerset PA

A weekend of old-time music and dance featuring:  The Heartbeats, 
The Red Hots, The Screamin' L7's, and Zydeco Norton.

Sponsored by Coal Country Traditions, Pittsburgh PA  
(412)321-4462.

The Coal Country Convention is a high-energy Southern music and 
square dance weekend.  this year's performers are particularly 
outstanding, (if we say so ourselves) and include The Heartbeats, 
The Red Hots, The Screamin' L7's, and Zydeco Norton.  These are 
all great bands who are lots of fun to dance to.  The callers are 
Fred Park, Dolores Heagy, and Ron Buchanan.  Both the African 
Drummers & Dancers and the Coal Country Cloggers will return.

There will be long, late-night dances on Friday and Saturday, 
workshops and performances Saturday afternoon and a last dance on 
Sunday.

The 1992 Convention will be held May 1-3 at Camp Soles, near 
Somerset, PA.  Camp Soles is located just off the Pennsylvania 
Turnpike (I-76); 1.5 hours east of Pittsburgh, and only 4 hours 
from Baltimore, Washington and Cleveland.  The camp has very 
civilized facilities, including heated cabins with real 
mattresses, lots of hot showers, hearty meals and two halls with 
beautiful hardwood floors.

The price for all this fun is only $55 for the weekend plussss 
#38 camp charge for two nights lodging and all meals (thelodging 
and food charge is not optional).  We must receive your 
registration by April 15, and we will send you a confirmation, 
directions to the camp, and a detailed program guide by April 22.  
Children ages 0-5 are free; those 6-12 are $25, vegetarian meals 
are available, and pets are not permitted.

Please register early--we sold out last year.
From: anita@ut-emx.uucp (Anita Cochran)
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing
Subject: Re: More on the great allemande controversy
Date: 9 Apr 92 22:40:56 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin, Texas

In article <713@shaman.wv.tek.com>, georgec@bounder.wv.tek.com (George Clark) writes:
> This is probably going to really sound dumb...
  
> In the Northwest when we allemande(left) at a WSD we take a 
> left forearm grip and not a hand grip.  This also holds true
> for contra dances that I used to attend in the area.
  
> Are we different from everyone else or am I just not
> comprehending what everyone is saying.

No, you are not different in the NW in the WSD world but the discussion
has been in contras and apparently in contras where these people
dance the grip is different than in WSD.  The Callerlab approved way of
teaching a left allemande is a forearm grip and that is the only way I
have seen it done regardless of where people learned the WSD.  This
move is one reason that long sleeve shirts are customary for men since
sweaty forearms are unpleasant to grip!

-- 
Anita Cochran   arpa:  anita@astro.as.utexas.edu  
                       anita@binkley.as.utexas.edu  
                snail: Astronomy Dept., The Univ. of Texas, Austin, TX, 78712
                at&t:  (512) 471-1471
Xref: sparky rec.folk-dancing:1087 ny.general:128
From: rsholmes@rodan.syr.EDU (Rich Holmes)
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing,su.general,ny.general
Subject: Putting a stop to winter
Date: 13 Apr 92 01:25:10 GMT
Distribution: ny
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY

Syracuse has had a record snowfall for the season. We are about to set
another record tonight if the forecast low temperature in the teens is
correct. Winter has refused to budge. We'll give it a couple more
weeks, and then WE'RE PUTTING A STOP TO IT.

Join Thornden Morris, the Bassett Street Hounds, Ribbonsteel Rapper,
and Birch Leaf Morris for the Twelfth Annual Syracuse May Day
Celebration. With morris dancing, sword dancing, a mumming play,
songs, and a maypole for the kids, we will celebrate the coming of
warm weather -- OR FREEZE TO DEATH TRYING!

As always: it's May 1 (Friday this year), near the water tower at the
top of the hill in Thornden Park in Syracuse, at dawn -- the
festivities begin at 6:00 am sharp and last a little over an hour.
Coffee and hot chocolate provided!

Let us know if you need a wake-up call...


--
 - Rich Holmes / Bassett Street Hounds Morris Men / rsholmes@rodan.acs.syr.edu
From: anita@ut-emx.uucp (Anita Cochran)
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing
Subject: Making new dancers more comfortable (WSD but applies to others)
Date: 9 Apr 92 22:50:51 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin, Texas

Someone posted about encouraging new dancers and someone else wrote
about their first contra lessons and how encouragement helped.  Our
caller is particularly good at putting new dancers at ease.  First of
all, he warns the new dancers not to listen to hard badgers (experienced
dancers who have graduated and have a "hard badge" with their club and
name) since hard badgers can't dance if they have to think.  Then he
goes on to point out that knowing your right from your left is the hardest
part of square dancing.  But he always points out that a square is
composed of 8 people and if someone makes a mistake it is 7 times as
likely to be someone else than it is to be you.  This really
helps new dancers to relax.  Also, he typically will pick out one
dancer (generally a hard badger but a really confident new dancer on
occasion) and will pick on that person when a mistake is made
and pretend that it is that person so that other people relax and just
dance.  Evelyn has been the butt of our caller's picking on for at least
10 years!  We also always do a few demo tips in the first weeks and
invariably we break down somewhere and all end up laughing and that
is good to show new dancers that is okay if you make mistakes, just
as long as you don't take them too seriously.  

Lessons can be a bit boring for an experienced dancer by the fifth or
sixth time and they tend to have a lot of start and stop but they
are really important to keep square dancing going.  It is important
that experienced dancers participate, encourage and are friendly.

-- 
Anita Cochran   arpa:  anita@astro.as.utexas.edu  
                       anita@binkley.as.utexas.edu  
                snail: Astronomy Dept., The Univ. of Texas, Austin, TX, 78712
                at&t:  (512) 471-1471
From: trb@ima.isc.com (Andrew Tannenbaum)
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing
Subject: Re: contra-gypsies
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:53:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: ima.1992Apr14.205322.13413
Organization: Interactive Systems, Cambridge, MA 02138-5302

In article <204884@unix.cis.pitt.edu> UROBIN@UNC.BITNET writes:
> One of the most interesting things about the responses to Tom Wills's
> gypsy comments is that all 10 I've seen were from men.  What does that
> mean?  And why do you supposes the move is called a gypsy, anyhow?

It's because men are more cogent and literate.  (Gee, maybe that will
get more women to contribute to the discussion.)  As to why it's called
a gypsy, that's interesting, let me share a transcendental dance
realization.  (No!  Let me!)  A common practice during a gypsy is for
the dancer to lead with the gypsy shoulder, while gazing over it, the
right shoulder for a normal gypsy.  Your head can be turned squarely
to the right, slightly less, or even more.

I used to consider this poor form, thinking that it was best to face
your fellow dancer squarely unless there was a good reason not to.  So
I'm lining up for a contra talking to my partner, and we're talking
about the gypsy, and how I wonder why people look over their shoulder
like that.  Well, standing there, she faces left and gazes at me over
her right shoulder.  Aha!  She looked like a gypsy!  a la Carmen,
Flamenco, and so forth.

I realize that "gypsy" has various cultural connotations, some
specific, some not polite.  Please don't yell at me if those aren't
gypsies in Carmen or that gypsies don't dance Flamenco.  I'm just
trying to convey my impression.  She looked like a gypsy.

Re Robin's notes about kissing contras, I agree totally.  If I want to
kiss someone, I'll do it without caller prompting, thanks.  Rory O'More
is the classic kissing contra, and if you can do it without chipping
your teeth, I'd classify you as an expert.  How's that for criteria?

> So, a note to callers, vary the dances, and don't be tellin' the
> dancers HOW to have a good time.  Usually we manage to figure that out.

Well, I agree with Robin in this instance, but it grieves me to see
how many dancers are so lacking in consciousness about dancing, and a
little advice from callers could help alot in this department.  Contra
dancing is a very free form of dance - you don't have to be very
precise about your movements, so people pick up really bad habits as
they become experienced dancers.  It's rough, because most callers
don't want to be wet blankets, so they often clam up instead of
expressing helpful insights (if they're lucky enough to have any).

	Andrew Tannenbaum   Interactive   Cambridge, MA   +1 617 661 7474
From: noe@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Roger Noe)
Subject: Re: Dancing Do's and Don'ts
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana,  IL
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 08:11:34 GMT

In article <92095.172913ARLENJ@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> ARLENJ@MAINE.MAINE.EDU writes:
>Newcomers need patience.  If they are doing something wrong, I
>usually tell them firmly what they need to change, but I smile,
>laugh and try to give them encouragement too.

Thank you for saying all this, Arlen.  I just started (last week!)
learning contra dancing.  Despite having made MANY mistakes, I
enjoyed myself tremendously, thanks mainly to experienced dancers
with this same attitude.  Fortunately they greatly outnumbered the
people with less patience and understanding.

As to the comment that it takes courage to be willing to make mistakes
in front of others--my first time didn't take much courage since I
knew nothing about dancing to begin with and could approach the
experience from a state of total ignorance.  I was pleasantly
surprised that this fine group of people was indeed prepared to
handle such a complete beginner, all I had to do was put aside my
innate shyness and be receptive to learning.  The courage will be in
returning to the group this weekend, now that I can no longer claim
utter ignorance!
--
Roger Noe                            noe@cs.uiuc.edu
Department of Computer Science       40:06:39 N.  88:13:41 W.
University of Illinois               (217) 244-6173
Urbana, IL  61801  USA               "Open the %#%$# pod bay doors, HAL!"
Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing