HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anon-1055@twwells.com (m&m)
Subject: family Therapists (was Re: Confronting my Mother)
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 00:06:18 GMT

I have not seen a family therapist since I was a teenager and all
of my family was seeing one for a while.  It was totally unrelated
to my having been sexually abused - at least in that neither I nor my
brother had remembered that abuse at the time of the counselling.
  - I am sure the events that precipitated the counselling are very 
related to both of us having been abused at a boarding school.

But ...  I recently read an issue of a Family Therapy magazine, I think
it was called "The Networker", an article which stated that family therapists
would have to radically alter their therapy style in the treatment of 
incest survivors.  I gathered that the typical style of family therapy
was to "push" their clients to make progress.  Instead of taking a more
passive and facillitating role, letting the client discover and explore
at whatever speed is comfortable to them.

This seems to second Nancy's (I think ?) caution about seeking help for
sexual abuse issues from someone specializing in family therapy.

Fare Well
m&m 



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1016@twwells.com (Prisoner)
Subject: a message from solitary
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 05:33:12 GMT

When Relkie began writing again, it had been my intention to pay
no attention, as part of my decision to not participate further in
this group and in particular to not further interfere in her life.
I've done enough damage as it is, to myself and others, and have
no desire to do more.

However, when Relkie dragged in the APS, frightening people with
those vague hints, I saw two alternatives. One was to remain
silent and let her scare people, unnecessarily. This would
certainly have not been good for them. The other was to state my
side of the story so that people could judge for themselves
whether there was grounds for concern. This has the risk that,
because I am now participating in the group again, I'll do more
damage, but that has to be balanced against my silence certainly
resulting in harm done.

This morning, I began a response. I became very sick because of
the attempt and was unable to finish. For right now, I wish to
say only a few things. Yes, we had sex. However, her recollection
differs somewhat from mine. Also, the way she told of the event
left out an awful lot of important things, things that I think
make a very big difference in how that event will be viewed.
Until I am able to finish writing about it, it is my hope that
people will suspend judgement.


Prisoner



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1159@twwells.com (Kristian)
Subject: Searching for a TV Program
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 03:13:30 GMT

I believe that last Wednesday August 5 on the program Nighttalk on 
Detroit ABC (at least as broadcast into Canada) interviewer Jane 
Witney (?) had three men giving their experiences of having been 
raped.  Several friends told me of the program afterwards but none had 
taped the show.  I have checked the broadcast since and I don't see 
any transcription or tape copy service announced.

Did any of you see it and have any comments?.

Actually because of my own experience of abuse I desperately would 
like to see this program.  If anyone has by chance taped it and could 
send a posting or e-mail me, I would appreciate it.  I would be more 
than willing to reimburse them for a copy or replacement tape.  
Failing that would anyone who saw it be willing to give me the gist of 
the experiences and reactions to them .... what was said?  My friends 
were a bit vague and of course did not have the perspective of a 
person who has been sexually victimized.

"Kristian"



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: cloister@milton.u.washington.edu (cloister bell)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: The Relkie Problem?
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:13:46 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan) writes:

>In a previous article, nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz) says:

>>I've been wondering if there could be an administrative solution--one
>>group for strictly healing work, and a looser group for dealing with
>>everything else. 

>what about a moderated news group?  But I suppose that the moderator
>would need to be someone that is not involved in posting to
>this group...  I think this would discourage manipulative and/or
>abusive posts from originating int the first place...  And thus
>kill any flames....  Who needs flames?...in this news group
>anyway...

i think this option was discussed briefly at some point in the past too.  i
personally am very much against this idea.  i would be very uncomfortable to
know that, even being non-anonymous, some person was going to read my post and
pass judgement on its appropriateness to asar before allowing it to be posted.
no thank you.  i very much prefer to be responsible myself for the
appropriateness of my postings.

my feeling is that the only way asar can work is for it to remain unmoderated,
and for everyone to *cooperate* into making it a safe place.  most of us need
to learn more about appropriate interaction with other people than we are
capable of now.  how are we to learn this if there is someone holding our hands
on each and every post?  i also have a feeling that a moderator would be too
much like a parent -- if you grew up in an environment where you had to ask
permission for everything, and were never trusted with your own judgement,
having to submit posts to a moderator would be far too much like that.  i guess
what it basically boils down to for me is that a group that is moderated
doesn't trust its members.  trust is such an important issue for so many of us
that i do not think asar could function without that basic trust.
-- 
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
|tactical nuclear sdi stealth nsafood signature.  | cloister@u.washington.edu |
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1069@twwells.com (Mixed)
Subject: Whose Guilt is it???
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:43:44 GMT



She writes:


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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: Z57N000 <Z57N@UNB.CA>
Subject: RE: down again
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 15:13:28 GMT

In article <BtEtyz.GHD@twwells.com> anon-1160@twwells.com (poohbear) writes:
>
>They also told me I now have no more health insurance.  And school is
>gonna start, and I am pretending that I am actually going to make it.
>Right.  My therapist told me that the school won't tolerate my
>cutting and that they'll make me leave.  Oh shit, this is bad.  I am
>really screwed.  I am not gonna make it.
>
YES YOU ARE.

RELKIE

Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz)
Subject: Re: The Anonymous Service: This Waiter Has A Fake Accent
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:30:35 GMT

In article <14AUG92.14067915.0031@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> Z57N@UNB.CA (Z57N000) writes:
>I have to go grade papers in an instant, so this will be brief.

I have to get going, myself, but even though I can't do this matter justice
I can't just let it hang, either.

>
>I tried to come forward in a public forum, and it backfired.
>
>I tried to make a report to the police a long time ago, and I wasn't
>taken seriously (because i didn't run screaming out of the room
>afterwards, said the female officer).
>
>I tried not to use names, but I didn't want anyone to be victimized any
>longer.
>
>Anything I could say would be taken as manipulative.

I think that some people will take what you say as manipulative, but
that doesn't mean that everyone will. I don't. 

I haven't felt much like posting (I'm not sure how much because of
the difficulties in this group, and how much because of things in
my own life), so I didn't answer that first answer to your post which
(if I understood it correctly) seemed to imply that charismatic
people don't get raped, or that there's no need to listen to them
when they say they have, or something. (I hope I'm not egregiously
misrepresenting, but I'm really limited on time and can't check.)
I've been sort of assuming that whatever I was going to say will
get said by someone else on the net, but this doesn't necessarily
happen. 

At this point, I do believe you, and will continue to do so unless
there is some very good reason not to.

One thing that your story explains is why you were so angry at Prisoner.
(The earlier accounts never seemed to include anything he did that
was so awful as to justify so much rage--the whole thing seemed like
such an emotional morass that I didn't want to get involved in it.)
 
I do wish that you'd mentioned going to the police in your first
posting to this thread, but I realize that that post was hard
enough to do at all. 

Is it conceivably worth while to go to the police again? (I'm definitely
asking from a position of ignorance here.) 

>I'm sorry I caused all this fuss.

I really think it's the structure of the universe's fault. 
>
>I won't bother you any more.

I think that this group exists to be bothered, in some ways. On the
other hand, if you don't want to be bothered by this group any more,
I can sympathize. 
>
>Beverley White -- ie Relkie

I'm sorry that I can't do a better job on this, but please don't
give up.  

                               ---Nancy
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: RE: response to Sim
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:38:09 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman) wrote:
>In article <17AUG92.18301786@enh.nist.gov>, aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
>> Relkie's "I won't bother you anymore" was nothing more than a manipulative
>> whine.  
> 
>I can see where you might think so, Sim, but I have the perspective of someone
>who speaks to her on the phone and talks to her about how posts like Sally's
>make her feel.  The simple fact is that you are wrong.

I only have her written word in front of me, so I can only respond to that
word.  "I won't bother you anymore" is simply manipulative.

>> If she was truly interested in understanding what has been said,
>> or feels that these statements were unfair, she could either engage in
>> a conversation about why people think this of her or to defend herself.
> 
>Look up the words "fear" and "insecure", Sim.  She's living in a situation
>where everyone in her immediate vicinity believes that she seduced Pris and
>tells her she's a liar.  When she gets judged, not questioned, not discussed
>with, but ACCUSED of being manipulative here, it ties in with what she's living
>with.  

I understand that she is fearful and insecure.  That doesn't mean I can't
call things as I see them.

All of us are insecure in some ways.  We all have been through a lot of
pain, in many instances have had parts of our lives devastated, have
low self-esteem, and a miriad of other problems, a lasting
legacy of our abuse.  

We are here to heal.  We are not here to coddle each other, send each other
e-hugs, or simply tell each other that things are going to be okay.  We
are here to heal, and healing is painful and difficult work.  By healing
we are looking inside ourselves to better understand our behavior and how
we can make changes where needed.  Many difficult things need to be said.
Keeping these inside, not airing them, does not do anyone any good.
We needn't bite our tongue when difficult things need to be said.

>Why do people here think that they can come across as supportive by adding a
>bullshit obligatory well-wishing to the end of a flame?

I didn't flame Relkie.  I don't see how anything I said can be considered
a flame.  I offer my words as help to someone who is in a difficult situation.
She can do with them what she wants, as can you.  I have mentioned nothing
about Prisoner, so I can't see how anyone can infer that I have taken sides.

[Egads!  I can't believe I've written this.  Is Steve Dyer around?]

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: enigma@netcom.com (Enigma)
Subject: Re: Confronting my mother (LONG)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 04:23:21 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

Sheila,

Congratulations for having the courage and strength to post this.
I just had one brief comment about The Dance of Anger - I thought it
was an excellent book, mostly.  BUT I think it's important to remember
that it is just one person's opinion.  I didn't see any evidence that
she was discussing the kind of abuse that many people on here have 
been through.  And even if she was, I don't see any hard and fast
scientific evidence that one must reconcile with their parents to be
emotionally healthy.  Courage to Heal says one thing, Dance of Anger
says the opposite - I don't really see a consensus.  Even my therapist
won't give me The Answer.  :)

Perhaps a truly emotionally and spiritually healthy person could
forgive anybody, even Hitler.  It's a noble ideal.  But most of us
are not at that stage, and I think that's okay.  In my opinion, if
a person feels they need a few years, or a few decades, or a few
centuries, away from their parents, that's their decision - and it
may well be what what person needs to heal.  Figure out what's right
for *you* - and go for it.  Good luck!

Holly (enigma)

-- 
Holly McGrath   <enigma@netcom.com> 
1803 Mission Street, #339          
Santa Cruz, CA 95060              
(408) 479-4072  (voice mail)
From: aatresa@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (Teresa Kline)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: gazooks
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:40:00 GMT
Organization: Yeah, *right* !
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <Bt5L0K.MyH@twwells.com>, anon-1186@twwells.com (Lavender) writes...
> 
> 
>I  need support over and above what some friends can give me and I was
>so hoping that I could get it here ...
> 

It *is* (I believe) still possible to get support here.  What you must keep 
in mind is that we are a homogeneous group of humans.  We all have good and 
bad days, good and bad sides.  As long as we all keep that in mind, getting 
badly hurt is less likely.  No guarantees, however.

>Thanks to some of you for your hugs but they are doing nothing to
>dispell my fear of being shafted in this group.
> 

I'm not sure what you mean by shafted.  If it is the discussion on the 
security of the APS that is something that you must decide.  I have never 
posted anonymously.  My decision was to be who I was for once.  I didn't 
want to protect my perps.  But that was *my* decision.  
Since I've never posted anonymously, I can't give you arguments to make you 
feel better about the APS.  It's like a friend of mine who gets sick on 
some carnival rides but not others...*I* have never gotten sick, so I don't 
know what movements will cause it.  If you can be clear on why you feel the 
APS isn't safe, perhaps some of us (those who *have* been anonymous and 
have gone non-anon?) could dispel some of the fear.

>I am just learning to use this medium and I am just learning to
>express some of my emotions which have been dead for so long that I am
>scrared by them !
> 

Boy, can I relate to *this* one!  In my healing I've gone through some 
anger spells where my cat hid for *hours*!  Poor Rocky!  I've also gone 
through crying jags where I thought I'd *never* stop.

>I am risking even now by just using the anon service and bloody hell
>why cannot a person feel free to post whatever the hell s/he chooses
>in this newsgroup and ask for feedback ?
> 

You *can* feel free to post whatever you choose.  It's a question of 
deciding that it's worth it.  Some people are posting through others, if 
they trust someone else, to remain anonymous.  Perhaps, if there is someone 
in the forum that you trust, you might try that.  *All* of us, anon and non
-anon, know how difficult abuse issues can be.  I think we're all willing 
to do what we *can* to help.  All you (generic you) need to do is ask 
(which was a *really* hard thing for me to do) and give us a chance to help.

-- Teresa

		Life -- just for the FUN of it!!!!
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1142@twwells.com (Strider)
Subject: Thanks to all who posted and/or emailed me
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:57:02 GMT


About a week sgo I started a thread relating to my history of psych. abuse,
I had also posted an article about it as well. Thanks to all of you who replied,
and shared experiences of your own. I no longer feel so alone about this.



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1016@twwells.com (Prisoner)
Subject: Re: Falling off the Sears Tower (regarding the long night post)
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 10:05:54 GMT

Relkie writes:
: In article <Bt84uC.EAz@twwells.com> anon-1016@twwells.com (Prisoner) writes:
: >[I was tired and not especially with it after 36 hrs awake, 24 on the road]
:
: That wasn't evident, at least not at the time.

I suppose not. I've learned too well how to avoid letting how I
feel show on the outside. I thought you needed me aware and
functioning, so I did the best I could.

:          Staying in the here and now, for me, meant ignoring all of
: the flashing red lights and alarm signals that were screaming,
: "YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE DOING THIS WITH A MARRIED MAN!!!!!!!"

Odd. You knew that I had discussed the possibility with my wife
before I went up there. While you had lots of good reasons for
being alarmed, that wasn't one of them. Ah well, I guess it
doesn't really matter how you understood those signals.

: >One thing I remember is this: at one point fairly early that
: >evening, I said that I had managed to separate my need for
: >intimacy from a desire for sex. That was true as far as it went
:
: WHEN?!?!?!?!?

Very early. It was dark already, I think, but I'm pretty sure that
we hadn't got to anything beyond where things should have gone. I
am sorry that I can't be more specific than that.

: I can recall you specifically saying that, out of your need for
: intimacy, you felt that you needed to engage in that particular
: activity. *sigh*

My turn for astonishment.

This really, REALLY upsets me. If I really meant that, or even
just said something I knew would be taken that way, I deserve
every harsh word that has been sent my way and you are right: I
should, and will, take myself as far away from everyone as
possible.

I don't remember saying this. I had locked myself inside for over
ten years because I feared I might say something like that. If I
had had the thought to say something like that, I thought I'd
have shut down completely.

What did I SAY?


Prisoner



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From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: addiction - Yet Another Definition
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:59:22 GMT
Organization: NASA/MSFC


It came to me this morning in a vision, a flash burnt across the clouds:

An Addiction - Any behaviour which I use to avoid pain, which eventually
causes me pain.

Love and service,

jim p.


-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
Huntsville,AL (205)461-4922  
This life is a test. It is only a test. If it had been a real life, you 
would have been given instructions....
Newsgroups: alt.recovery