HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: charlesv@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (Charles Van Duren)
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: Re: Macdonalds adv. and Olympic error
Date: 17 Aug 92 14:59:24 GMT

adb@geac.com (Anthony DeBoer) writes:

#Denis Beauregard <beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> writes:
#>Since a few days, Macdonald's restaurant has an advertisating on radio
#>based on Olympic mistake (on French, at least).  They talk about
#>In the play, they give score for a competition, including a 6.6.
#>Then they said the judge made a mistake and it is 9.9.
#>
#>Obviously, this is based on what happened to Sylvie Frechette (the judge
#>depress the wrong button that give her 8.? instead of 9.?, the result
#>being a silver instead of gold medal).  Isn't this a joke of very bad taste?

#Actually, in a strange kind of way, it's perfectly appropriate to be using
#jokes of very bad taste to advertise food of very bad taste.  :-)

How is it they're advertising their food now? It's hot, it's fast, and it's
what you wanted. (I think that's how it goes - I don't listen to commercials)

Nothing about taste. How appropriate.

CvD
Newsgroups: can.general,soc.culture.canada
From: myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui)
Subject: Re: Change the speed limit
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 02:58:17 GMT

In article <92229.182704BURGER@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> Bob Burge <BURGER@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>I'd like to know what evidence you have to refute the suggestion that
>higher limits would only mean more accidents and deaths on Canadian
>roadways.

Presently we have an artificial situation, whereby drivers are told to
suppress their own judgement and simply drive at or below the limit,
and if that's done no one will get into an accident. We have too many
drivers who do not evaluate the situation on the road and just blindly
drive at the limit.

My argument is to let this judgement be passed back as the
responsibility of every driver. Police may, with their supposedly
professional judgement, deem a maneuver or speed as unsafe for the
given situation, and will have the power to cite an infraction,
regardless of the speed of the accused in relation to the legal limit
on that section of road.

Our law should be geared towards preventing accidents. Accidents are
caused by irresponsible driving under the circumstances. Accidents are
reduced by teaching all drivers to be more responsible, to be more able
to judge what is safe for any given situation, and to be aware of what
other vehicles can do and what maneuvers to avoid in that context.

Money should be spent on teaching every driver better skills, the
proper skills, and more technical skills, rather than rote learning
like "always drive on the left lane". By technical skills I mean
knowing the handling limit of one's vehicle under different road
situations, by training with an instructor on the training ground and
actually exploring those limits and exceeding them to learn how to
regain control once it's almost lost. Then, and only then, can each
driver competently judge what is safe under the situations.

Contrast that with the TV ads you see flogging ABS brakes, with a
dainty stereotypical dumb blond female secretarial type saying "Ooooh,
the car does not swerve and I can still steer no matter how hard I
apply the brakes! This is just pure magic! With $$$$ I can have this
magic too!" I do not know much about the west European or south
American culture, but I bet in those places, where I suppose a
technical understanding of car control is basic to every driver's
training, this type of advertising will be laughed at. Yes, in those
places these ads would be seen as purely patronizing, therefore an
insult to the buyer's intelligence, and would never be run. Besides,
they're sexist as hell too.

See, watching Senna also has taught me the technique of limit braking,
and most importantly, to only do it on the clean part of the road. :-)

>Bob Burge                                  Internet: burger@qucdn.queensu.ca
>Opinion Research Unit - Queen's University - Kingston - ON - Canada - K7L3N6

Michael MY Hui          myhui@bnr.ca           Ottawa Canada
Xref: sparky can.general:4056 soc.culture.canada:5858
From: robert@isgtec.com (Robert Osborne)
Newsgroups: can.general,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Change the speed limit
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:42:00 GMT

buckland@ucs.ubc.ca (Tony Buckland) writes:
>  What is needed that
>  we don't have?  (1) Higher speed limits, as you say.  But, (2), a
>  much higher average level of driver competence.  We are stuck, in
>  North America, with this insistence that there must be almost
>  universal access to driving privileges.  The competence that we
>  have to demonstrate to get our licenses is ludicrously inadequate.

Here in Toronto they don't even trust people testing for their driver
license on the street.   The have a little track with stop signs,
cross walks and stop lights and no other traffic!  So they putter
around this nice little perfectly paved track for a half-hour and,
before you know it,  they get to drive down the 401 at 120kph!

>  A hell of a lot of US and Canadian drivers shouldn't have licenses,
>  but they do because nobody has the political guts to take them away,
>  and so we have to drive under laws tailored to their numbnuts
>  abilities.

And of course since half the drivers aren't even qualified to drive
safely the police stop charging them and focus on the quick bucks:
the speeders.

Rob.
--
Robert A. Osborne   ...!uunet.ca!isgtec!robert or robert@isgtec.com
Newsgroups: can.general,can.english
From: omar@kahlua.cc.vanderbilt.edu (Omar Patino-Siliceo)
Subject: Toronto, what to do ...
Reply-To: omar@kahlua.cc.vanderbilt.edu
Organization: Vanderbilt University
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 01:37:42 GMT

Hello "up" there,

I will be spending a week in the Toronto area. I welcome all suggestions you  
may have about things to do at daytime and evening, restaurants, accomodations  
or whatever you think may be useful to a turist.

Please respond to my e-mail address since I do not keep up with this news  
group. Thank you very much for your assistance.

Regards,

--
   __    _            _
  /  \	| |  Omar Patino-Siliceo * Computer Ctr. Vanderbilt Univ. *  Box 1375,
 |    | |-   Sta. B. Nashville, TN 37235.  ***   ``Research is what I am doing
 _\  /_ | \  when I don't know what I'm doing''          --- Wernner von Braun
Newsgroups: can.general,soc.culture.canada
From: myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui)
Subject: Change the speed limit
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 20:03:11 GMT

Use the political system to change the speed limit, rather than waste
your energy teaching other drivers to drive on the right if they're
travelling at or above the speed limit. By law, if they're slower than
the speed limit, they must move over to the right.

If I'm elected, I will change the speed limit on Ottawa's 417 and most
safe sections of the Trans Canada Highway to 160 km/h, and also review
related laws comprehensively to make it easy for police to discipline
dangerous drivers without penalizing safe and fast drivers. Easy
meaning the type of maneuvers that can be called dangerous, not easy
when there's evidence lacking. I would consider a videotape of the
offensive maneuver to be the bare minimum evidence to get a conviction.

Michael MY Hui          myhui@bnr.ca           Ottawa Canada
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter)
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: Re: Olympics musings
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:54:41 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 912

From article <1992Aug18.043115.8584@unixg.ubc.ca>, by buckland@ucs.ubc.ca (Tony Buckland):
> One last time, until 1996.  What is it, despite
> commercialism, cynicism and far less than perfect coverage
> by the media, that made those two weeks of watching
> worthwhile and moved me, sometimes to tears?
> 
> [some nicely written, eloquent words about... ]
> [  .... "grace" etc. ]
>

  Having just called Tony a self righteous morally indignant idiot in my
  last posting I am compelled to offer him some praise for his nicely
  written, eloquent posting on Grace at the olympics.

  Nice work!  Well done!

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
Newsgroups: can.general,soc.culture.canada
From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
Subject: Re: Change the speed limit
Originator: clewis@bwdlh118
Organization: hum!
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 19:17:28 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.180513.24804@unixg.ubc.ca> buckland@ucs.ubc.ca (Tony Buckland) writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.163135.20393@bwdls61.bnr.ca> clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis) writes:
>> ... Wales certainly isn't the right place for long-haul
>>commutes.

> It isn't the right place for imprecision either.  I have never
> been so scared and alert as when driving, on the unfamiliar side
> of the road, at highway speeds down a road no wider than the
> street I live on (2 lanes), with no shoulders whatever, bounded
> on both sides by chest-high walls of slate with all the jagged
> edges sticking out horizontally, ready to rip the side off my
> rented car if I wavered.  It rained only some of the time.

You had it easy.  How about driving in the rain at night on a road that's
only sometimes two lanes wide - more usually a narrow one lane, has your
chest-high wall of slate on one side, and a 70 degree slope on the other
with the wrecks of burned out cars 1000 feet below?  Plus the odd sheep
in the middle of the road.

Or the time in the middle of a moonless night, we encountered two escaped
percherons completely blocking the road from one stone hedge to the
other.  Hint: percherons are jet black and can weigh up to a ton
and a half apiece.  Just perfect for crushing Ford Escorts.
[I swear the only reason I knew they were there was because they
occluded some stars...]

We love that place.  We'll go back anytime.  But not for commuting...
Newsgroups: can.general,misc.books.technical
From: janick@bcrkd13.bnr.ca (Janick Bergeron)
Subject: Presorting of mail at dropping points.
Reply-To: janick@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Timing Verification Group
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:40:26 GMT

Last time I went back home in Chicoutimi, I noticed that Canada Post
had installed 2 mailboxes wherever there used to be only one. One was
labelel "Local mail only" (and listing the postal code prefixes which
indicated "local mail") and the other mailboxe was labeled "All other
mail".

I saw the same thing in Banff last week but no such setup is to be
found here in Ottawa.

Is Canada Post testing point-of-collection presorting (like they do in
Europe) ? The Saguenay-Lac-St-Jean region has always been know for
being a good "marketing test area". Or are they going with it only as
their contract with the postal workers lets them to ? I remember a big
fuss about presorting during one of the [many] postal strike which
would cost many jobs.

--
Janick Bergeron    Bell-Northern Research, Ltd       Ph.: (613) 763-5457
System Timing   P.O. Box 3511, Station C, Stop 049   Fax: (613) 763-7241
Verification     Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1Y 4H7  email:  janick@bnr.ca 
library quote; use quote.funny;                  use std.disclaimer.all;
Newsgroups: can.general,soc.culture.canada
From: cal@ee.ryerson.ca (Calvin Henry-Cotnam)
Subject: Re: Change the speed limit
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute, Toronto
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:34:28 GMT

In article <3153@isgtec.isgtec.com> robert@isgtec.com (Robert Osborne) writes:
>
>Here in Toronto they don't even trust people testing for their driver
>license on the street.   The have a little track with stop signs,
>cross walks and stop lights and no other traffic!  So they putter
>around this nice little perfectly paved track for a half-hour and,
>before you know it,  they get to drive down the 401 at 120kph!
>

I agree that this system of testing sucks, but I want to point out one
thing that I think needs improvement in addition to this: training
courses!!!

Case in point:  four years ago, my wife got her license, only after
two tests.  She failed to pass the first test because she did not know
the proper method of parking on a hill.

In one respect, this is a stupid thing to fail a person on when there
are so many other skills that seem to be inadequate in drivers in this
province.  However, the reason that she did not know this was that the
in-car instructor *NEVER* had her do this in any lessons.

Why?  He explained to me that he *knew* the testing location (as described
above) and that because there were no actual hills, she would not be tested
on this.

I basically told him and his boss that their job was to train people to
drive in ANY and ALL situations and not to train them to pass the test.
Besides which, I explained, that an examiner could instruct a someone
being tested to "imagine" that they are going up a hill and park the
vehicle accordingly.


So here we have it in summary:

	1) Silly inadequate testing procedures that focus on
	   less used and less accident-prevention-related skills.
 
	2) Training instructors who teach people how to pass
	   the inadequate test instead of teaching proper skills.


BTW - I demanded that my wife receive additional instruction and use
of their car at the retest free of charge -- and got it!

Some other suggestions that could start interesting threads:

1) Manditory retesting every N (5?) years.

2) Non-snow versus all-weather licencing.

3) Manditory recertification of vehicles every M (3?) years.



Calvin Henry-Cotnam, CATE            |    MY CANADA INCLUDES CANADIANS!
Ryerson Polytechnical Institute      | I would really like this to include
Toronto, Ontario, Canada             | Quebec - but I won't hold my breath.
Xref: sparky can.general:4021 soc.culture.canada:5797
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Sunday, 16 Aug 1992 18:27:04 EDT
From: Bob Burge <BURGER@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: can.general,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Change the speed limit

In article <1992Aug16.200311.22480@bmerh85.bnr.ca>, myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui)
says:
>
>If I'm elected, I will change the speed limit on Ottawa's 417 and most
>safe sections of the Trans Canada Highway to 160 km/h, and also review
>related laws comprehensively to make it easy for police to discipline
>dangerous drivers without penalizing safe and fast drivers. Easy
>meaning the type of maneuvers that can be called dangerous, not easy
>when there's evidence lacking. I would consider a videotape of the
>offensive maneuver to be the bare minimum evidence to get a conviction.

I'd like to know what evidence you have to refute the suggestion that
higher limits would only mean more accidents and deaths on Canadian
roadways.

Bob Burge                                  Internet: burger@qucdn.queensu.ca
Opinion Research Unit - Queen's University - Kingston - ON - Canada - K7L3N6
Xref: sparky can.general:4079 soc.culture.canada:5916
From: cal@ee.ryerson.ca (Calvin Henry-Cotnam)
Newsgroups: can.general,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Change the speed limit
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:24:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: ee.1992Aug20.142436.9190
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute, Toronto

In article <1992Aug20.022715.13209@r-node.gts.org> marc@r-node.gts.org (Marc Fournier - Sys Admin) writes:
>	Hey...I never took my test on a 'safe' little course...I took
>mine on the streets.  I don't know if these coures are new, but they
>didn't exist 7 years ago when I took my licence.
>

I too took my test on real streets (11 years ago).  More recently they
have been moving towards these "simulated streets".  The testing centre
at Keele/401 and the one north of Pearson airport both have these.
The centre where I was tested at (Warden/Eglinton) recently closed down
and may be operating out of a new office at Victoria Park/Lawrence.  If
they still do road tests there, it would still be on real streets as I
know of no testing track in that area.


>>1) Manditory retesting every N (5?) years.
>>
>	How about up to and then after a certain age?  Like once at
>16, then at 18, then at 21, and then after a certain age?
>

I have a problem with absolute ages.  The concept of retesting after
2 years, then after 3 more years, then maybe every next five years
is OK.  This is not the same as saying 16, 18, 21, 26, 31,.....
What about the new driver (example my wife) who obtains his/her
licence at age 23?  With absolute age retesting, older new drivers
miss the more frequent retesting.

On a similar note, a few years back (before no-fault insurance), the
Insurance Bureau of Canada ran advertisements stating why "new drivers"
had higher insurance premiums.  The facts made sense, except that the
truth was that it was not "new drivers" that were targeted for higher
premiums.  It was "young" drivers.  They of course couldn't say
this as it would be age discrimination, so they said "new drivers".

This made their claim pure BULLSHIT as my mother, shortly before this
ad campaign, obtained here licence at age 42!

There was not ONE CENT increase in my father's insurance premium
to include her!!


>>2) Non-snow versus all-weather licencing.
>>
>	Oh ya...how do you expect to get all-weather experience?

I should clarify what I meant by this.  There would be two classes of
licenses:

If you receive training and testing on slippery snow-covered roads,
your "class" of license covers you for all situations.

If you receive training and testing on non-snow-covered roads, your
"class" of licence does not cover you when there is snow/ice on the
road.

Yes, I understand some logistical problems, such as a winter with very
little snow fall.  But this is just a suggestion for discussion.

Calvin Henry-Cotnam, CATE            |    MY CANADA INCLUDES CANADIANS!
Ryerson Polytechnical Institute      | I would really like this to include
Toronto, Ontario, Canada             | Quebec - but I won't hold my breath.
Newsgroups: can.general,soc.culture.canada
From: douglasc@fraser.sfu.ca (Douglas Ming Chong)
Subject: Re: Car inspections..
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Distribution: na 
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 10:19:12 GMT

hermann@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (hermann) writes:


>Does anyone know if car inspections are required in BC? We're moving there
>soon... 

Car inspections are not mandatory in BC.  However, if the police pull you
over and sees that your car has obvious saftey problems you will get a fine
and be subject to passing vehicle inspection guidelines.  This scenario
happening would be rare unless you have a clunker of a car.  Car inspections
used to be mandatory in the Greater Vancouver area about 10 years ago but
not anymore.

We don't have mandatory car inspections but we do have AirCare.
AirCare is a new mandatory program that will start in the beginning or end
of September.  All vehicles in the Vancouver area will be required to 
go to an AirCare inspection facility.  The car must pass certain vehicle
emission guidelines for the specific model and year of the car.  Older 
vehicles will have looser standards than new cars.  The exhaust emissions
are measured and a diagnostic result is given.  The cost of the test is
$15 each time you come.  Cars may fail because it needs a tuneup or some
emission control devices are missing.  If the car passes then you may 
then get insured at ICBC (Insurance Corporation of B.C. - the government
insurance agency) for third party liability, collision, etc. 
If the car fails then you must go to an approved AirCare repair facility
to get the problems fixed up.  The minimum fix up is $250 to $300
(amount undetermined at this time) for minimum repairs.  The rest of the
repairs can be deferred for the next years subject to the minumum repair
amount.  In other words if the total repairs come up to $600 you can
just order to fix up to $300 worth of repairs.  After the repairs are
done then you go back to the AirCare inspection place to see if you pass.
Since you fixed up to the minimum amount, even if you fail the second time
you will be certified for this year.  They will get you next year.  This
second inspection also costs $15.

Basically don't get a tuneup until after the first AirCare inspection.  
The tuneup cost can be used to meet the minumum repair cost requirement.
If you get here before September the program will not have started so the
above repairs need not be done.  Also, if you  are going to live outside
the Vancouver region AirCare will not be applicable. 

Once the program comes into effect no AirCare certification means no
insurance for the car.  No insurance means no wheels.  Speaking of
insurance be prepared for high insurance costs in B.C.

Doug
From: robert@isgtec.com (Robert Osborne)
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: Re: Presorting of mail at dropping points.
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:20:15 GMT

janick@bcrkd13.bnr.ca (Janick Bergeron) writes:
> Is Canada Post testing point-of-collection presorting (like they do in
> Europe) ?

Well they used to do it here in Canada as well.  The post-office
insisted that it was more efficient and cheaper to ship all the
mail to 'processing centres' and then ship from their to the
ultimate destination.

This was, of course, based upon automatic/manual sorting techniques
being quick and cheap.  Postal wages and 'work' environments have
now reduced this to slow and expensive so I wouldn't be surprised
if they are re-thinking the whole thing.

Rob.
--
Robert A. Osborne   ...!uunet.ca!isgtec!robert or robert@isgtec.com
Newsgroups: can.general,soc.culture.canada
From: myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui)
Subject: Re: Change the speed limit
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 11:41:10 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.022715.13209@r-node.gts.org> marc@r-node.gts.org (Marc Fournier - Sys Admin) writes:
>	Hey...I never took my test on a 'safe' little course...I took
>mine on the streets.  I don't know if these coures are new, but they
>didn't exist 7 years ago when I took my licence.

Me neither. I took my driving test again :->) in Ottawa five months ago
and we definitely used a road course. My mistakes were very few,
obviously.  The absolutely _charming_ female examiner said to me
gently: "just drive as you're legally required to do, rather than what
you feel is safe." I said: "yes, dear", and everyone lived happily ever after.

Michael MY Hui          myhui@bnr.ca           Ottawa Canada
Newsgroups: can.general,soc.culture.canada
From: myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui)
Subject: Re: Change the speed limit
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 03:03:04 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.010651.6755@imax.imax.com> dave@imax.imax.com (Dave Martindale) writes:
>And if you made prices absolutely skyrocket beyond some particular
>threshold value, you'd find that in a few years most cars on the road
>would be below that fuel consumption at highway speeds.

I too think it's an absolutely excellent idea. Just like proportional
taxation, which I also approve of (OK, let's NOT flame that one here!),
the gasoline tax will rise dramatically for any fuel flow rate above a
certain level. That would prompt car manufacturers to design _really_
efficient engines that are also powerful enough to be fun.