HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eaker@ukulele.crd.ge.com (Chuck Eaker)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: New York <-> Washington DC: air shuttle was better
Keywords: AMTRAK, North-East Corridor, air travel
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:35:57 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center

In article <Bz9FrL.8LK@cmcl2.nyu.edu>, mckenney@gauss.cims.nyu.edu (Alan M. McKenney) writes:
|>     A final complaint: every commercial airport has a car rental
|> on-site, that is pretty much open whenever the planes are flying.
|> So far, only in Washington have I found a car rental at a train
|> station.  If you are going to a city where you won't be picked
|> up, and your destination isn't right near the train station, this
|> totally eliminates AMTRAK as an option.

Amen. Last spring I realized I could visit my daughter who is
in school in Springfield, Ohio by taking the Lake Shore Limited
from Schenectady Friday night, arrive in Toledo Saturday morning
after sleeping on the train, rent a car, drive to Springfield,
return to Toledo Sunday night and be home Monday morning almost
in time to go to work after sleeping on the train. A round-trip
coach ticket could be had for as low as $90. Sounded like a great
adventure.

There was a car rental place a short taxi ride from the Toledo
station where I had a reservation. But it was a very low volume
outlet and I had to wait 45 minutes for someone to show up
(there was a sign saying when the attendant would return, so it
wasn't too much of a surprise). Returning the car Sunday night
was not fun. I ended up standing on a street corner in downtown
Toledo at 11:30pm waiting for a cab. Nothing eventful happened,
but I don't think I have the courage to do that again. And these
experiences are far removed from the efficiency and convenience
of car rental operations at airports.

Luggage handling doesn't help either. I remember taking a cruise
out of Miami and handing our luggage to the airline at the
Albany airport.  Despite changing planes and riding limousines,
we didn't have to think about it again until it showed up in our
cabin on the boat. Actually it was waiting for us. The rest of
the industry should handle luggage like that.

-- 
Chuck Eaker / P.O. Box 8, K-1 3C12 / Schenectady, NY 12301 USA
eaker@crd.ge.com        eaker@crdgw1.UUCP       (518) 387-5964
From: bill@mathnx.math.byu.edu (Bill Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Tunnel Motors
Date: 18 Dec 1992 02:30:50 GMT
Organization: Brigham Young University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: mathnx.math.byu.edu

In article <3230061@hpcndaw.CND.HP.COM> bill@hpcndaw.CND.HP.COM (Bill Kepner)  
writes:
> / hpcndaw:rec.railroad / grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) / 10:29 pm   
Dec 14, 1992 /
> In article <6092@sumax.seattleu.edu> daveike@sumax.seattleu.edu (Eickerman)  
writes:
> > 
> >> Some people mentioned the Tunnel Motors that DRG&W and SP bought.  What
> >> amazes me is that they have cabs.  The theory is that they were designed
> >> to be used in the back of a consist of locos, thus they wouldn't need a
> >> cab.  I have also seen pictures of SD40T-2s leading the pack of 'normal'
> >> locomotives through tunnel country.  It would seem logical to save money
> >> and not put the cab on or the controls, and just make it a B unit.
> 
> to buy alot of "B units".  What happens if you have a grade crossing accident
> and damage the lead unit ?  I guess you have to rob a unit from a nearby  
train.
> 
I can still remember a yard brakeman standing in the mid-cowl doorway
[nope, not the end door, the one half-way between the trucks!] of an  EB -8  
driving it from the passenger depot down to the diesel
shops.  Happened all the time.  Do the B -units produced now have
some kind of control like this?  If so, it would
sure be convenient in an emergency!

-Bill
--

       _ _|_______====___H____===_====_====_====_====_===____H___====_______ 
        |_______| [[[[        \###########||###########/         [[[[       |
  _______| [][] |____  """         UNION |  | PACIFIC        """            |
  |o ____|  UP  |__| \___________________|_ |____________________/\_________|| 
|_| /    |__74__|   \_|  |  |  |  |  |  ||  |  |  |  |  |  |  | /  \|   |  |||
|_|=|====|======|===|===\/=================================|=\/=|======|===|_|
|_|  [(o)=(o)=(o)=(o)]|_________________||________________[(o)=(o)=(o)=(o)]|_| 
==============================================================================
]    []    []    []    []    []    []    []    []    []    []    []    []   []
                           5000 H.P. Track Staightener
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: roma@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Roma)
Subject: Re: Talking Detectors
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:18:13 GMT

tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke) writes:

>I have several questions regarding railroad track detectors. My local
>timetable mentions three kinds: talking, non-talking, and talk on  
>defect only. Since I know nothing about this topic also I'm going to ask
>for some more help from fellow netters:
>
>1. Talking Detectors: I assume they talk by broadcasting on a specific
>   frequency. What is this frequency? Does it vary or always the same.
>   My timetable makes no mention of how to listen in.

Talking defect detectors generally talk on the frequency listed in the
timetable for the subdivision in question.  This is the frequency that is
monitored continuously by crews en route.

>2. Non-Talking: How do they communicate? Could I assume via a wire
>   to the dispatcher?

Non-talking type are of two flavors: one type is a digital read-out.  Due to
the lack of cabooses to monitor the digital read-out, this type of detector
is increasingly rare these days.  The other type of detector communicates
via line and/or microwave to a dispatcher or operator whose duty it is to
read the detector data.  This data usually appears in graphical form.
This type of detector is gradually being converted to the talking type.

>3. What kinds of items do they report? I've heard of hot-box, items 
>   hanging, etc.. Are there others?

These devices can detect hot wheels (due to hot journal or sticking brakes),
dragging equipment, high/wide, etc.

>4. How would I recognize one if I stumbled along the tracks and hit one?
>   Do they all have a similar shape, etc..? 

First, you can find the milepost locations for defect detectors in your
timetable.  You won't have to stumble very far that way! :-)  Most detectors
are accompanied by a concrete or sheet metal shanty to house the electronic
equipment, but these are often identical to the type used for signal
equipment.  If the detector is a talker, the equipment shed will have a
small antenna.  At track level, hot wheel detectors will have sensors near
the rail to detect wheel temperature.  Dragging equipment detectors usually
use a sheet metal flap to detect hanging objects.  High/wide detectors are
the most obvious to spot because they use a large frame around the track
(much like a scaled-down signal bridge) on which photoelectric cells are
mounted.

Your timetable will indicate what type of defects each defector will sense.
-- 
Jon Roma
Computing and Communications Services Office,
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Internet:  roma@uiuc.edu      	UUCP:      uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!roma
From: mstoffan@uumark.UUCP (Mark Stoffan)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Spiral Tunnels book?
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 00:00:39 GMT
Reply-To: nlbbs!mstoffan@uunet.uu.net
Distribution: world
Organization: 

Given the amount of interest in tunnels by railfans and engineering students,
have any non-technical books on the subject ever been published?
        My local libraries show nothing in their catalogs. This would
seem to be a subject in need of a good author, unless some obscure title 
already exists.

 Mark Stoffan                           mstoffan@nlbbs.UUCP
 Gorham, Maine  USA                     mark@btsgatep.caps.maine.edu
 Member, 470 RR Club, &                 Mark.Stoffan@lambada.oit.unc.edu
   B & M RR Historical Soc., Inc.       bg213@cleveland.freenet.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: Joe.Russ <Joe.Russ@mixcom.mixcom.com>
Subject: Re: CMStP&P RR
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:49:48 GMT


>diamond logo in the late 1940's.  However, the official corporate
>name remained Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific until the
>Milwaukee was merged into the Soo Line in 1985.
 
Okay, if that was the official corporate name, where did the (Chicago
Milwaukee Corp.) come from? Keep in mind there are currently two CMCs
- one is the above which still holds railroad interests in trackage,
equipment, a shortline or two, and some other businesses while the
other, the CMC Heartland Partners, is a spin-off of it which was
formed to handle the real estate transactions after the merger but has
failed (at least here in Milwaukee) to do anything.
     Joe R.
-- 
Joe.Russ@mixcom.com
WISE Div., NMRA
From: CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94000)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Unusual tunnels?
Date: 14 Dec 92 16:36:42 GMT
Organization: McGill University

In article <1992Dec14.145040.4238@ee.ryerson.ca> iain@ee.ryerson.ca (Iain Campbell) writes:
>
>The spiral tunnels on the Canadian Pacific mainline through the
>Kicking Horse Pass in the Canadian Rockies is not just an example
>of one such tunnel, but actually of two in a row.  The tunnels are
>built just as you describe, spiraling over top of each other.  Each
>tunnel goes through 270 deg. of arc, with the entrance and exit portals
>almost one atop another.  I have observed long trains going through
>where the head end is coming out of one portal almost directly
>above the tail end disappearing into the lower portal!
>
>I don't know any specs (ie length, grades, etc) on these tunnels -
>perhaps someone else could help with this info ...
>
The tunnel under Cathedral mountain is 3255 feet long with a turn of
291 degrees, and the one under Mount Ogden turns through 217 degrees
over 2992 feet.  The ruling grade is 2.2 %.  The tunnels were
completed in August 1909, and replaced the route up the "Big Hill",
which had a 4.5 % grade.

Tom Box
CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: zephyr@cory.Berkeley.EDU (COIFMAN)
Subject: Re: The value (if any) of B units
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 02:46:35 GMT

In article <mX3VVB5w165w@1776.COM> bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe) writes:
>bill@hpcndaw.CND.HP.COM (Bill Kepner) writes:
>
>How about if a RR ordered some A units with a shell cab (no gauges, no con-
>trol equipment, no seats, etc.) for MU operation only?  These ersatz B units 
>would be cheaper and have a higher power-to-weight ratio than normal A units.
>If later on the RR wanted them to live out their declining years as A units, 
>they could buy the necessary equipment from the factory or (better yet) can-
>nibalize damaged A units or ones with blown or worn-out engines.
>
>   ___            _                                           -  Bob
>   /__) _   /    / ) _   _
>(_/__) (_)_(_)  (___(_)_(/_______________________________________ bob@1776.COM
>Robert K. Coe ** 14 Churchill St, Sudbury, Massachusetts 01776 ** 508-443-3265

I believe that the UP is doing just that. The units are prefixed (or was
it posfixed) with 'B' in the number. eg 278B


   _ -----------  -------------  ----------- _  -------------/^^^^^^^^\----
  /^____________||_____________||____________^\|[] ==== ====  ___ ___   == |
 'o-o ------ o-o  o-o ----- o-o  o-o ------ o-o o-o ------------------- o-o
Way of the Zephyrs        zephyr@cory.berkeley.edu             Benn Coifman
                           zephyr@robotics.berkeley.edu

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: sfsmith@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Sandy F. Smith, Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: PATH (was Re: H&M )
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:59:15 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Dec8.015603.9212@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, R.Todd.Minsk@dartmouth.edu (R. Todd Minsk) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Dec7.160108.1370@bony1.bony.com>
> billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp) writes:
> 
> > >	There was always a connection between the PATH at Cortlandt St
> > >and the few subway lines closest to it.  The World Trade Center, spans
> > 
> > I've heard this, and also that the PATH at one time ran on to the Empire
> > State Building.  I've always ascribed these to being urban legends.  If
> > there really was a connection downtown, where was it (I ride PATH to WTC
> > every day and don't see any evidence of a connection.  To which NYCTA
> > line did it connect?  I beleive that the PATH cars are too wide to
> > operate on the IRT.
> 
> The connection referred to is underground walkways for transferring
> pasengers.  I'm not aware of ANY track connections between PATH and the
> NYCTA, now or ever.
> 
> Todd Minsk, ferro-bibliographer


True enough, but to correct Bill Gripp's impression...

The H&M tunnels were constructed to the same dimensions as those of the IRT,
as the H&M management envisioned the possibility of abtaining a franchise
from the City of New York that would enable it to operate through the city
subway tunnels in the future.

When the City awarded the contracts for the new subway under Broadway to the
Brooklyn Rapid Transit in 1917, this hope was dashed, as the BRT's rolling
stock was both longer and wider than the IRT's.

__________________________________________________________________________
Sandy F. Smith, Jr. ___________________________sfsmith@mail.sas.upenn.edu
Graduate Division, School of Arts and Sciences, University of Pennsylvania
16 College Hall, Philadelphia, PA 19104-6378.  (Opinions mine, not Penn's)

Still making a token contribution to SEPTA's survival every day.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: roma@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Roma)
Subject: Re: Unusual tunnels?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 01:00:25 GMT

jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:

>There's a similar tunnel story at Dubuque, Iowa (rather, in Wisconson on
>the other side of the Mississippi.

The state across the Mississippi from Dubuque is Illinois, not Wisconsin.

And the railroad using the tunnel and bridge is the Chicago Central & Pacific
(CC&P) Railroad, formerly the Illinois Central.
-- 
Jon Roma
Computing and Communications Services Office,
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Internet:  roma@uiuc.edu      	UUCP:      uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!roma
From: donl@coastal.UUCP (Don Lockhart)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: HO scale
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 01:01:41 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Northern Lights BBS * Portland, Maine * 207-762-2756 (v.32bis)

Don Lockhart (donl@nlbbs), The Northern Lights, 207-761-4782 (v.32bis/V-HST)

I picked this conference up in hopes of getting info on HO railroads.
Looking to get into it with my daughter at Christmas. Am I in the
wrong place (this looks like real railroad (full scale))? If so is
there a newsgroup dedicated to the "smaller" scales? Thanks, and Merry
Christmas to all from the Pine Tree State!
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: smb@research.att.com (Steven Bellovin)
Subject: Re: Alcos, GG1's, etc.
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 15:46:15 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <998@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, macman+@pitt.edu (Dennis H Lippert) writes:
> I hope that the train wasn't too busy... an F40PH has to run at (I
> believe) fifth notch or more to keep the Head End Power system
> running.  SO, if you bring it down to idle, all of the trains
> electricals (AC, heat, lights, power vestibule doors, etc), all GO
> DEAD.  I hope you weren't doing something this stupid without knowing
> what you were doing.

I think it's more complicated than that.  According to the F40PH manual
I have, the throttle handle settings behaves differently when head-end
power is being generated than when it's not.  If it's not, the throttle
controls the diesel engine speed directly, in a fairly intuitive manner.
But the HEP generator requires constant RPM, so the engine has to run
at the same speed all the time.  In that case, the throttle handle
controls the excitation of the field windings of the main generator,
in order to govern the speed of the engine.

There is a switch to put the diesel into a low-speed idle mode, but
(according to the manual; I've never been in the cab of one, let alone
played with the switches) it's only operational when the HEP system
is turned off.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Subject: PHOTO TRIP REPORT--ROANOKE, VIRGINIA
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:19:01 GMT

Following a lead on some steam engines in a junk yard
in Roanoke which were discussed on the net recently,
I took off on a photo safari last Saturday.

My first stop in Roanoke was the large scrap yard of
Cycle Systems, which is in the process of making small
bits from Norfolk Southern's extensive roster of high
hood four-axle units.  I saw three GP-30s near the
entrance (two high hoods and one low).  The manager 
kindly allowed me to enter the property (briefly) to
shoot two of them.  The third was against a fence and
couldn't be shot due to the direction of the sun.  I
didn't ask to go into the yard proper, but from the 
freeway I could see several high hoods in various stages
of "recycling".  There also appeared to be a T-6 or 
some similar Alco (maybe their plant engine?) and a
road slug, possibly a cut-down Train Master.  It might
be possible to walk along the NS track on the north side
of the plant and shoot through the fence, especially now
with the plant life all dormant.  Unfortunately, that is
right into the sun for most of the day this season.  Any
photos at all will have to be in the late afternoon.
There is no access from the south.

From there I went to Virginia Metals, about a mile west.
The four steamers are there, as noted on the net.  They are
three 4-8-0s (1118, 1131, 1151) and 2-8-0 (917).  None have
tenders and all are in very bad condition.  The 2-8-0 is
almost totally covered by creepers.  Fair shots of the 
first two engines can be made (they're outside the fence).
Approach is again along the NS track on the south side of
the plant.  Morning light was perfect.  Also at the plant
were two Baldwin S-10 (?) or similar diesels from the
Chesapeake Western (662 and 663) and two N&W canteens or
water tenders and some very old hoppers.  All are in very
poor condition.

I spoke to Sam Putney, owner of Roanoke Rails about the 
engines.  He says they have been offered to the local club
for free, but the catch is that the scrap company says they
have to take them all and also the diesels and canteens
which are in front of them.  No pickee-choosee.  Some club
members think they can do a cosmetic restoration on one of
the steamers for the Virginia Transportation Museum.  Sam
was a bit dubious--they all are leaking asbestos lagging.

I also scouted along the old Virginian yard nearby (which 
fronts a city park.  There is a long line of old diesels
here waiting for scrap.  I saw GP-18s (one in the old 
ball herald paint scheme), GP-30s and what I think were
GP-35s (maybe GP-40s).  All high hoods.  Shooting through
the fence here is impossible due to vines and the property
is posted.

All together a productive day.  The GP-30s are going fast,
so I was glad to see some of them one more time.


~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ehr@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Ernest H. Robl)
Subject: Re: Switch Heaters?
Summary: precip sensors
Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 03:12:38 GMT


[discussion about remotely controlled switch heaters deleted]

Earlier in this thread, someone commented about being at a remotely-
controlled switch in cold weather and not noticing any heater output.

There are also switch heaters at remote locations equipped with
precipitation sensors.  You don't need the heater unless you are
getting rain or snow which is likely to freeze up the points.

If the sensors detect moisture, they cut the heaters on.  Otherwise
you save fuel or electricity, depending on how you generate the
heat.

-- Ernest
-- 
"My other computers are Nikon N8008s and an SB25." -- Ernest H. Robl
Ernest H. Robl (ehr@ecsvax)  Durham, NC, USA   +1  919   286-3845
                                         FAX:  +1  919   286-1696
This .signature meets plate C specifications (for rec.railroad fans)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: sws37449@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steven W. Salzman)
Subject: Re: Milwaukee Road Line Northwest
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 06:36:41 GMT

schumann@msus1.msus.edu writes:

>Close.  DME = Dakota, Minnesota, and Eastern.  They operate the 
>ex-C&NW line from Winona (Minn.) to Rapid City (S. Dak.) and the line
>from Waseca (Minn.) to Mason City (Iowa).  They also had been 
>negotiating to purchase from C&NW the north-south line that runs 
>through Rapid City.  This is the line that originates all that 
>bennonite (sp?) traffic.  This deal may not come off, however.

The line in question, referred to as the "Colony" line, runs from
Colony, Wyo. through Rapid City to a connection with the BN at 
Crawford NE.  Bentonite originates near Colony,  while the line's other
major shipper is a state-owned cement plant near Belle Fourche, SD.
Bentonite traffic was traditionally shipped east via C&NW's "Cowboy"
line across northern Nebraska, however when CNW decided that they 
wanted to sell the Cowboy, they shifted the traffic to the DM&E.

Westward unit bentonite traffic, for export, was hauled west on 
the Cowboy to Lusk, WY where the trains used the new WRPI (coal)
connector to reach the Union Pacific mainline west of North Platte, NE
which it took to reach its destination of Portland, OR.

The Cowboy was washed out west of Crawford in 1991, and was abandoned
shortly thereafter.  Now, export bentonite traffic is hauled eastward
on DM&E to Waseca and Mason City, where it is handed over to C&NW to
carry to the UP at Council Bluffs, IA.  How about that for a 
circuitous routing?!

Just thought you'd like to know.....

Steven W. Salzman
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
sws37449@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

One more final to go.....
From: rad@railnet.nshore.ORG (Rick DeMattia)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Southern Pacific vs. Passenger Trains in the 1960's
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 19:27:56 EST
Organization: Railnet BBS +1 216 786 0476

tssmith@netcom.com (Tim Smith) writes:

> One story that I heard repeatedly in the '60s was that SP would charge a
> higher proportion of the RoW maintenance expenses to the passenger
> department, thus making it look like it was losing more than it was.
> So a line that had, say, 14 freights and 4 passenger trains a day would
> get 60% of the maintenance changed to the passenger department.

I can't speak for any other RR's, but on the B&O, maintenance
for Bridge 460 in Cleveland was charged to the passenger account
years after the last B&O train left town.

--
UUCP: {uunet|backbone}!railnet!rad   rad@railnet.nshore.org
CompuServe: 72517.666@compuserve.COM