HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: walter@watson.ibm.com (Walter Wilson)
Subject: Missing subject header
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:33:06 GMT
Distribution: usa
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center


I am looking for a sailboat around 30' in the NY area.
(any leads appreciated!). Money is an object (ie closer
to $10,000 than $20,000)

We want it for weekend sailing and short cruises with
a family of 2 adults and 2 kids (10 & 15) and maybe
an occasional college student back home.

One candidate I've found is a 30' O'Day 1978 (15 years old)
with excellent maintenance; the current owner wants to move
up in size (don't we all? :-) )
It has a keel-centerboard, the original Yanmar diesel 
(1 cylinder?).
The rigging is original layout, so I would probably re-rig
(someday) to reef jib and main and adjust jib car from the cockpit...

This one gave us that "feels right"  feeling, so I'm trying
hard to be objective. I would buy on the spot for $10,000, but
the owner is asking $22,500... What can anyone tell me about
the boat, the keel-centerboard, or the price? 


-- 

  Walter G. Wilson  (walter@watson.ibm.com)
  The opinions expressed here are my own.

  "My plans for the year all laid out...
   Ah... A dream in Springtime "
     -- Shodo (Go Seigen)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Looking for (not expensive) Wrist-Watch for Sailing
Date: 22 Jul 92 07:34:49 GMT
Organization: Hatch Usenet and E-mail.  Playa del Rey, CA

In article <5011@transfer.stratus.com> kvk@questor.sw.stratus.com (Ken Koellner) writes:
>Since I end up breaking the band of my Seiko every few months, I
>thought it would be a good idea to buy a cheap watch so I don't loose
>my better watch sailing.  As long as I'm going to buy a watch for

Instead, take the Seiko (or did you lose it already) to a dive shop
and get a velcro watch band.  Available in many colors, infinitely adjustable,
and mine has never come open when I didn't want it to.

-- 
                
Rich Greenberg - N6LRT - 310-649-0238 - richg@hatch.socal.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Looking around
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 20:04:08 GMT

PEEP is fun, but realistically we'll never take her far out of Redwood Creek.
Recently we looked at a 22' Norwegian motor-sailer (gorgeous) and a Cape
Dory Typhoon, the weekender model with a cabin and four (yes, four!) berths.
Both got sold while we were pondering! By the way, our experience is that
boats will sell for 2/3rds of the advertised asking price. So, we are now
looking at a Freedom 20 (21?). As you can see, we're quite eclectic in our
tastes, the one thing in common is that they are all, ahem, a bit unusual.
Apart from its rather frozen snotty look -- which we do not like -- the
Freedom might suit us well enough. Lots of techie stuff, but all leading
to the cockpit. Apparently it was designed for the handicapped. Well, I'm
66, so maybe I qualify. What we don't see is anything beneath the waterline.
Can anyone fill me in on the keel? centerboard? Fin? Ballast? Draught? Its
made by Person-Tillotson, but haven't they gone belly up? One curiosity is
that it has railings right the way round. Is this really capable of going
out anywhere? 

							Fido
.

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: whoward@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu (Will Howard)
Subject: Re: Olympics?
Organization: Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:58:52 GMT

In article <22892@oasys.dt.navy.mil> michaels@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert
Michaelson) writes:
>Anyone hear how the Olympic sailing is going?  Sure can't depend on
>the TV coverage for news here.
>
>rob
NY Times said today (Wednesday 7/29) that J.J. Isler was disqualified for a
premature start (or, DSQ'ed for a PMS,  for you acronym fans) in the first
women's 470 race .That's the only news I've heard. 
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Subject: Re: Man Overboard again, Re: Passage Making: Fast or slow?
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 20:48:35 GMT

In article <3515@legs.COM> frenette@ast.com (Dan Frenette) writes:
>[stuff about multihulls and safety]
>
>As for man overboard, if you feel you are risking you crew and you vessel
>you need to go to a good sailing school.  And don't forget your significant

Having both attended and taught at sailing schools of one kind and another,
I know that this is just nonsense. A far more accurate statement is that
"if you don't feel that every time you sail, you are risking crew and
vessel to some degree, then you are overly confident." A *good* sailing school
will help you reduce your risk; a better one will not only help you reduce it,
but keep you aware of what's left. The best ones will perhaps teach you
that even the best of us cannot always deal with the remaining risk.

>other.  We do hat drills often without regard to conditions.  It works and

Hat drills are fine entertainment. They are good practice, too. Unfortunately,
they tell only part of the story. One of the hardest parts of MOB events
is getting the person on board the boat. Hats are *lots* easier. 

>we can get on unexpected hat in 30 knots in under 2 minates.  We aren't
>risking our lives because people know what to do and how to do it.  

The arrogance and utter stupidity of this statement makes me scared to be
sailing on the same ocean with you. 

>The biggest problem with manoverboard isn't drowning.  The cold will get to
>you first.  

This is not always true. In tropic waters, one can stay alive for quite a long
time (e.g., several hours).

>                                   If you see someone overboard they are 
>in more trouble than you think.  

Surely not! After all, with *you* on the same ocean, a MOB is safe as can be.
After all, you "aren't risking [y]our lives because people know what to do."
Presumably with all this practice, once an MOB is seen by you, all is well :-(.

>That's my 25 cents worth.  Doesn't buy much does it?

Not at my place.

-John
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: for Dudley Gaman 
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:51:10 GMT

Dudley, could you refurnish me your address? I managed to edit it out
of your mail before I saved...
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: larry@pdn.paradyne.com (Larry Swift)
Subject: Re: Missing subject header
Organization: AT&T Paradyne, Largo, Florida
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 13:26:01 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.163306.25696@watson.ibm.com> walter@watson.ibm.com (Walter Wilson) writes:
>One candidate I've found is a 30' O'Day 1978 (15 years old)

I'm sure to offend some O'Day owners for which I
apologize ahead of time, but you asked....
Years ago I looked at an O'Day at the boat show and
decided I wouldn't sail one across the bay, let
alone coastal cruising or blue water.  My opinion
didn't change much with the last issue of Practical
Sailor which reported "mediocre craftsmanship".

Flames to /dev/null

Larry Swift                     larry@pdn.paradyne.com
AT&T Paradyne, LG-132           Phone: (813) 530-8605
8545 - 126th Avenue, North      Gulfstar 37, aft cockpit
Largo, FL, 34649-2826           She's old and she's creaky, but she holds!

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: stefan@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (Stefan Mochnacki)
Subject: Re: reefing headsails, why not roller furling?
Organization: University of Toronto Physics/Astronomy/CITA
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 19:14:28 GMT


lubenow@scivax.stsci.edu writes:

>   Why not roller furling?  The answer is all of the above.  I'm used to 
> hanked-on headsails.  Several of my friends have roller furling, and they 
> seem to have not-so-good light air performance, as their sail is only a 130
> or so, and no heavy air performance (too big, so they roll it up and start
> the engine.) 
  .
  .
  .   (lotsa good stuff deleted)
  .
  .

>   This rig allows me to set any sail, from drifters to genuine storm canvas, 
> with complete control of the shape.  And when roller furling goes wrong, it
> goes wildly wrong, something I almost certainly would NOT be able to deal with
> single-handed.  The mechanisms are too complicated to fix either under way or 
> (probably) even back at the dock. 


Well, a boat which I may well  buy in the next few weeks
is a C&C 30 which has an interesting setup: a 100% "working" jib is mounted
on a furler on its own wire and halyard, about 6-12 inches  below and 
parallel to the forestay. This is supposed to be easily lowered and 
coiled if one wants to hank on a standard foresail (the standard #1 and #3 
are almost unused; the current owner never used them).

I'd be interested to hear comments about:

	(a) the pros and cons of such a set up, as opposed to a "permanent"
            furling setup on the forestay, or reefing (as above),

and     (b) the C&C 30 Mk I as a boat (this one is a 1974; there are
            others in the 1973 - 78 age range which I could buy). 

					- Stefan Mochnacki



-- 
Stefan W. Mochnacki          INTERNET - stefan@centaur.astro.utoronto.ca
Astronomy, U. of Toronto     UUCP - {uunet,pyramid}!utai!helios.physics!stefan
Ph. (416) 884-9562           BITNET - mochnacki@utorphys.bitnet 
FAX (416) 884-2672	     LOCATION - David Dunlap Observatory 
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From:  (Tim Ryan)
Subject: info on four winns
Organization: tmr@wdl1.wdl.loral.com
Distribution: (Tim Ryan)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:59:11 GMT

I'd like to hear from you out there in net land, if you have any comments 
or experience with this boat. Also if you can give me some info on other 
quality boats like Reinel,Sea ray, ect..

I'm currently looking into purchasing a boat. I'm very impressed with the 
Four Winns 190 Horizon. This peticular boats has a 5.0 (302) 200hp,
seats eight, has a large ski storage area, Ice box, lockable storage box, 
Tach, Depth finder, marine AM/FM Cass, tilt steering column, trailer with
brakes and much much more.

The price is the big factor as usual $16,900.00. ouch!
Is this a good price? sounds a little high to me but what do I know!

Has anyone got any ideas/facts about the real cost of this boat?
(or any good bargining tools).

I have looked at a couple of others, Master craft (if I win the Lotto)
Cris Craft, Reinel. Localy Four winns is the closest.

So any help you can offer will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Tim
From: pavlov@niktow.canisius.edu (Greg Pavlov)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Stainless Steel Props
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:46:22 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

In article <154f9vINNp3n@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM>, cmac@anthrax.EBay.Sun.COM (Chris MacDonald) writes:
> [re steel props]: 
> Are they really that much more rigid than aluminum; enough so that you REALLY
> notice the difference, for instance during the hole shot while waterskiing?
> 

  It's not that they are more rigid; they're probably not by much.  But they
  accomplish the task with a much smaller cross-section.  Every once in a 
  while, one of the power boating magazines runs a comparison article on 
  props, usually including both aluminum and steel props.  Take a look through
  back issues at the library.

  pavlov@fstrf.org
From: davea@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Dave Angelini)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Reefable headsails  Was: Re: Why only one main?
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:19:03 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA


 A tall sail as opposed to a long footed sail of the same square footage
will be better in heavy ocean conditions because when you are in between   
crests the wind is blocked by the next crest. IMHO.
From: CHRIS@csclan.cs.com (Chris Rousseau)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Net opinion of Sobstad sails?
Keywords: racing sails sobstad genesis
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:23:47 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Computer Support Corporation, Dallas, Texas.
News-Software: CNEWS Novell/MSDOS inews ver 11Sep91

I'm curious about the net's opinion on Sobstad sails in general and
their new 'Genesis' line.  Anyone got 'em? like 'em? blown 'em out?
fast?

Please post responses.
Thanks,

Chris 
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: hketola@agsm.ucla.edu (Heikki Ketola)
Subject: Boston Whaler
Date: 26 Jul 92 13:13:24 PDT

I am considering of buying a power boat for fishing, diving, and just
for fun.  I live in LA, and the Channel Islands and Catalina are
obvious places to go.  
After some superficial study of power boats it seems to me that Boston
Whalers might be a good choice, say a 20 ft Outrage.
I would appreciate any comments on Boston Whalers;  value, used
Whalers, what kind of Whalers to avoid,  what kinds to get, etc.
Please email  -I will summarize on rec.boats.

Thank you in advance,

Heikki
From: davek@hplsla.hp.com (Dave Kelley)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Stainless Steel Props
Date: 29 Jul 92 19:33:34 GMT
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA

STU@mwvm.mitre.org writes:
 
> My Mastercraft has a bronze prop - and a 351 Ford - and will pull you and

Actually, the prop is made out of nibral, a nickel-brass alloy.  Somehow I
think that bronze (copper, tin and sometimes other elements) would be too
soft for this application.

--Dave
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Subject: Re: Frostbiting (Was: Man Overboard, again)
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 00:32:19 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.163419.22359@webo.dg.com>
psmith@dg-webo.rtp.dg.com (Peter Smith) writes:
 
>
>BTW, insane frostbiters around here race Lasers.  Those beyond insanity
>race sailboards (no, I don't know how they get their hands off the booms).
>---
I sailboard as long as I can stay warm.  (Since I live on a small lake, I can
even sail in really bad weather as long as I have someone watching me all the
time for signs of trouble.  To sailboard in extreme conditions requires
neoprene gloves, which would just love to freeze to the foam rubber grip on
the booms, and then have plenty of excuse to rip; I solve this problem by
using a pair of heavy duty rubber gloves over the neoprene.  But usually, the
problem is self limiting...when its below freezing, the water also freezes on
the deck of the board, making footing a real problem.  (If anyone knows of a
way to get around this, please let me know.)
 
Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans          Those who can, teach;
                                     those who can't, don't;
eplus17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu             and too many who think they
or EPLUS17@UIUCVMD                   can teach neither can nor do.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras)
Subject: Re: Man Overboard again, finis
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:16:09 GMT

jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes) writes:

>Having both attended and taught at sailing schools of one kind and another,
>I know that this is just nonsense. A far more accurate statement is that
>"if you don't feel that every time you sail, you are risking crew and
>vessel to some degree, then you are overly confident." A *good* sailing school
>will help you reduce your risk; a better one will not only help you reduce it,
>but keep you aware of what's left. The best ones will perhaps teach you
>that even the best of us cannot always deal with the remaining risk.

>>                                   If you see someone overboard they are 
>>in more trouble than you think.  

>>That's my 25 cents worth.  Doesn't buy much does it?

>Not at my place.

It is with shaking hands that I write this.  Here's what opinions and $.25
bought at my place the weekend before last: 

We arrived on the scene of a diving accident.  After calling the Coast Guard I went 
over and retreived a dead or dying man from the water.  Conditions were
calm so no problem there.  Water's about 60 but he`s in a dry suit so that's
not it.  He was just in a situation where everything had to go right and
something didn't.  I do not know the details except that he passed out 180 feet
down.  I pulled him out at 1100.  The paramedics were there literally in minutes.
By 1130 the hospital pronounced him dead.  

A few observations.  The Coast Guard men and women were total pros.  They have my
respect and admiration.  I used to think I was pretty well prepared.  Not for this, 
though.  I always thought if I pulled soemone out of the water they'd be OK. I now
know that things can go either way.

So in summary, there's a little more to it than whether the racing rules will compensate
you for the lost time.  In the face of what happenned I'm humbled and saddened.

regards,
gerard
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: greg@netcom.com (Greg Bullough)
Subject: Re: Varnish/Stain Suggestions For Aged Wood Deck
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 01:38:26 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

I've been very happy with Z-Spar Captain's varnish, and with Te-Ka
teak cleaner to get the grey out (sort of Grecian formula for boats).
 
I also have covers on every piece of varnished wood on board. Cuts
the varnishing from a bi-yearly re-do to a semi-annual touch-up.
 
Greg
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: tsai@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Jeffrey C. Tsai)
Subject: Re: Used Laser
Summary: sail area???
Keywords: serial # and manufactor
Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:55:57 GMT

In article <will.712341002@ogre>, will@ogre.cica.indiana.edu (William Sadler) writes:
> In <1992Jul28.154952.15779@ecsvax.uncecs.edu> tsai@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Jeffrey C. Tsai) writes:
> 
> >I looked into a used Laser and want to find out more about
> >this particular boat's manufactor.  I am sure that are all
> >good but is there "lesser" quality controled year than tohers?
> 
> >The serial number is ZIDB4876N84E by Hawkesbury, Ontario.
> >Can anyone tell me if this is a good manufactor?
> 
> This is a performance Sailcraft boat.  They are better than the
> Pearsons IMHO.  The brand new Sunfich/Laser boats are
> reportedly good.
> 
> >Also, the sail is a multi-colored sail and the owner saied
> >it is a full-size sail (96ft2). I have never seen any other
> >sail color beside white unless it is an "radial" sail with
> >smaller size.  How can I tell what's the size?  It was '83
> >sail.
> 
> >This guy is asking for $1487 without trailer, the boat is in
> >excellent condistion, is this a good price.
> 
> For a 1984 boat that price seems about right.  Especially if it
> is in good shape.  Does it have any leaks?  Check the mast step
> especially.  Scratches in the hull?  Aluminum cleats?  Aluminum
> tiller (the wood one was standard, but everyone replaces it).  How
> old is the sail?  If it is an 84 sail you are going to need a new one
> sometime soon.  $330.
> 

Will, what about the sail area as mention in my post?
Is it a 96 ft2 sail even if it has mullti-color or it is
a radial sail?

Also, the boat has no trailer, is $1450 still a good price?
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: spencer@panix.com (David Spencer)
Subject: Re: Olympics Sailing News/Results
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:51:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

I said:
>>On the mass PMS:
>>2. Hasn't the committee heard of a general recall? If half the fleet
>>(including the past two world champs) is over, I'd sure call 'em
>>back.... Even if all classes sailing in the same start area (a
>>supremely dumb idea), it's not _that_ big a deal.

chandler@tabasco.West.Sun.COM (Don Chandler) writes:

>the onus of making a proper start on the skipper, NOT the Race
>Committee.

Of course it is. And the rules are quite clear that the RC has no
obligation to hail. Still, it is an ordinary courtesy to competitors.
And I should think it especially important in the Olympics to extend
that sort of courtesy.  If you polled competitors, I'm sure you'd get
100% agreement that they'd like the rc to hail. And after all, the
committee is there for the convenience of the competitors, not the
other way around. Which is not to say one should be a jerk to rc's,
or that I don't appreciate their time and effort.

>It's sort of like another fairly subtle point: many racers believe
>that the "gun" denotes the warning/prep/start.  Again, NOT!  The
>rules clearly state the sound signals are made only to call attention
>to the visual signals, and the visual signals prevail.

Right. The rc at the recent Newport regatta for the Etchells/Sonar
starts was, bar none, the worst I've ever seen. They managed to have a
full second between gun and shape at _every_ gun (sometimes a second
before, sometimes a second after). From the timing (and the PMS's they
handed out) it was clear that the rc thought that the gun was the
proper signal.

And, for the final race, they set the line to favor the pin by 30
degrees. You could lay the first mark from the pin. They then set
the round-the-ends rule. We were told afterward that DC had told them
to do this so that no one would be over early. He didn't want a
general recall that would get him in late ...

>Also, what is "the black flag rule"?  As far as I know, we never used
>such a rule in SF Bay.

DSQ for being over the line (or its extensions) in the minute before
the start. Pretty common in LI Sound racing with large fleets, strong
tides and light winds. Encourages caution in starting.

dhs   spencer@panix.com   Sonar 404
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: chris@island.COM (Chris King)
Subject: Re: Looking for (not expensive) Wrist-Watch for Sailing
Organization: Island Graphics Corp.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:08:36 GMT

EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans) writes:

>I sit here looking at my Timex Triathlon (<$20 if you look carefully).  It
>has a recessed "mode" button to switch from one function to another; I have
>never had the modes change by mistake.  On the face of the watch, it has two
>big buttons, one labelled "Start/stop," and the other "lap/reset;" to reset
>the stopwatch you must first stop it (otherwise, the second button simply
>records a lap split time.)  It also has a light.  For me it does everything
>I need in triathlons and sailboard racing.

I have a Timex that I used to use for timing starts. I found that I
was accidentaly hitting buttons all the time. It was a real pain in
the ass. So I got a Casio instead, which works fine. Maybe is depends
on the shape of you wrist, what you are wearing, what you are doing,
etc. In may case, I was always wearing foulies, and diving under the
boom on a J-24. I think the foulies sleave was pressing the big
buttons on the top of the Timex.

					Chris King
					Island Graphics Corp.
					San Rafael Ca.
					chris@island.com