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Date:         Tue, 29 Dec 1992 23:49:05 -0700
From:         Karen Schwalm <SCHWALM@GC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Standardizing Composition Classe

I am enamored of John Slatin's Writing Intensive On-line Learning
Environment, but having just yesterday had to make the case for this kind
of writing (outside of classes) as an integral educational activity, I am
not hopeful.  I keep hoping we at community colleges can look to
universities for help making the case.  We're still too far away from
John's and my ideal of having an electronic conference tied to every college
course.

Many of my colleagues see writing (about the Humane Society or Clinton or Gay
Issues or Human Sexuality--we've tangled with them all this semester except
the Humane society--how did we miss it??) as EXTRA and, in tight budget
times, as EXTRAneous.  I see this kind of writing as crucial--for social,
political, and educational reasons.  For our students--part time, of low
commitment, disengaged--our task is most of all to draw them in, to get
them to spend more time on their education, at the institution, doing
almost ANYTHING there.  This could be reading in the library, hanging out
with other college students anywhere on campus, or writing online--being
"at college" while they are at home or at work.  Our community is truly
virtual.

I am teaching a new course this semester that begins on January 14th.
Today (December 29th), I got a message from a student announcing that she
had just gotten her modem hooked up!  We exchanged several messages about
the course; she had a number of questions about the course content and
assignments.  I am excited about the prospect of courses spilling over the
semester boundaries, only possible electronically because our campus is
locked up tighter than a drum this week.

John's Writing Intensive On-line Learning Environment is a place I want to
be (along with John, the most gracious Bob Boston, the other Schwalm and
many, many Megabunnies).  Writing comes alive there in wonderful ways because
the audience MATTERS to students and the writing they do makes things happen.
How to teach WITH (not in) this environment is an open question for me . . .
both in its synchronous and asynchronous forms.

So Happy New Year . . . and write on . . . electronically!


--Karen T. Schwalm              Department of English
--Glendale Community College    Maricopa Community College District
--6000 West Olive Avenue        Voice: (602) 435-3651  Bitnet: schwalm@gc
--Glendale, Arizona  85302      Internet: schwalm@gc.maricopa.edu
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Date:         Mon, 28 Dec 1992 12:38:13 -0500
From:         ENGMYLES@UBVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Standardizing Composition Classes

David: this is not a reply to your long and heartfelt (or so mine felt, reading
it) message, but a suggestion inspired by it:
there is one supply of staff that is unending, and that is the students in the
comp classes/courses.  Harness their energies to teach each other.  I assume,
without knowing, that there is a way?  The kids do teach each other, actively,
outside of class.  Why not inside?
Myles
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Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 15:46:42 AST
Comments:     <30DEC92.17049933.0063.MUSIC@UNB.CA>
From:         Russ Hunt <HUNT@UNB.CA>
Subject:      RE: High school/college comp cou

     Now there's an ambition.  A K-death writing curriculum.

     David Schwalm's characterization of
>                What has happened to Moffett's work, . . .
>                                    that what he saw as a
> K-12 or K-16 curriculum has become a COURSE curriculum all too often, starting
has happened to a lot of good educational ideas, under just the
pressure that's being described here over the past few days ("good
idea, but our university requires a course in English, another in
history, etc." -- or, "good idea, but what will we do with all the
adjunct instructors, grad students, junior staff, WPAs, etc.")

                                    -- Russ
                                __|~_
Russell A. Hunt            __|~_)_ __)_|~_   Learning and Teaching
Department of English      )_ __)_|_)__ __)     Development Office
St. Thomas University        |  )____) |        EMAIL: hunt@unb.ca
Fredericton, New Brunswick___|____|____|____/  FAX: (506) 450-9615
E3B 5G3   CANADA          \                / PHONE: (506) 452-7700
                       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 08:58:08 EST
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was cyselfe@WALKER2.HU.MTU.EDU
From:         "(Cindy Selfe)" <cyselfe@MTU.EDU>

Megabuds--

Just a short holiday message to wish you all a happy and joyous holiday
season!  We thank all of you for the companionship, laughter, and
collective wisdom you give so generously in this forum and in others.
Without you, our lives would be poorer--even in the beautiful upper
peninsula of Michigan where the snow falls silently and the quiet sound of
skiis is the only sound to be heard on the trails unless you scare up a
ruffed grouse nesting under the snow.  We'll be thinking of you as we sit
around the wood stove in the evenings during this solstice season and look
forward to seeing many of you in San Diego AND Ann Arbor!!

Cindy and Dickie

  Cynthia L. Selfe
  Humanities Department
  Michigan Technological University
  1400 Townsend Dr.
  Houghton, MI  49931

    Internet:  CYSELFE@MTUS5.CTS.MTU.EDU
    Telephone: (906) 487-2447
    Fax:       906/487-3347
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Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 10:36:16 -0600
From:         LHAMPLYONS@CUDNVR.DENVER.COLORADO.EDU
Subject:      Re: Standard English

Michigan survey:
Keller-Cohen, Deborah and Wofle, Arthur C.  Extended Writintg in the College
of Liberal Arts and Sciences. (sorry, that should be Wolfe).  Report to the Coll
   ege of LSA.  Available from the English Composition Board as a published repo
   rt.
Bill Condon, Emily Jessup, Susanmarie Harrington, (?Sharon Quiroz?) are mega-
bunnies and could send it to you.
Liz Hamp_Lyons
English/Applied Language
University of Colorado, Denver
LHAMPLYONS@cudnvr.denver.colorado.edu
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Date:         Mon, 28 Dec 1992 22:24:41 -0700
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Standardizing Composition Classes

Myles, I once went to a seminar offered by Frank Smith who talked mostly about
elementary school kids and the differences between the way they learn outside
of school and the way teachers try to get them to learn inside school. He
noted that learning outside of school (e.g. learning to ride a bicycle etc.)
is usually collaborative, children teaching each other and learning together.
In school, by contrast, the children are usually asked to learn by themselves
in teacher centered situations. By the time students get to college, the norms
of learning inside and outside the classroom are fairly well-established. I
see evidence of this whenever students think of cooperative/collaborative
learning as cheating, when they can't really believe that I'll allow them to
rewrite a paper after they get feedback on it. The point I was making is that
breaking down the distinction between outside and inside (and this is what
Smith was suggesting) requires most students and most teachers to rethink most
of their preconceptions about "school." And this is not easy. In effect, they
have to "learn" to do in school what is "natural" outside of school. (As this
relates to the discussion of "standardizing" comp courses--most new
instructorsleft to do what comes "naturally" would proceed to lecture about
writing. They are as socialized to the classroom as their students are.)

-- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
___Arizona State University West
___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 12:24:25 CST
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From:         ROOT@ECNUXA.BITNET
Subject:      Information request

Hello,


I am looking for information regarding examples of equipping faculty offices
and student classrooms with linked computers with improved accessibility for:

Computer Aided/Managed Instruction, innovative use of technology, faculty
support, distance learning, self-paced instruction, technology integration
into curriculum

especially in the fields of

Accounting,
Mathematics
Management,
Reading,
Writing,
the Social Sciences,
Education,
and Computer Science.

Another area of interest is improvement of basic competency in mathematics,
writing, and reading skills.  And while I am at the receiving end, I am also
interested in use of computers in a foreign language learning laboratory.

The objective is to develop a plan to improve student retention, time to
graduation, and employability.

If this is not the appropriate list for this information, would someone
please guide me in the right direction.  I apologize for cross-posting this
message on a few lists.

I will summarize the findings and post them if there is sufficient interest.

Thank you.

Malik
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Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 19:18:17 -0500
From:         "(Niall Johnson u)" <john7552@MACH1.WLU.CA>
Subject:      May the new year bring . . .

Megabuddies,

A few lines from a CD some friends of mine just released seem appropriate.
One of the songs they perform is Si Kahn's "New Year's Eve", I kind of
like it. It's a shame you can't all hear it.

Anyway, may you all have a wonderful 1993.

" . . .
But can't you tell by the ringing bell?
The old year's moving on
I'd like to say one thing before its gone.

May whatever house you live in have flowers round the door,
Children in the bed to keep you warm.
May the people there accept you for what you really are
and help you find some shelter in the storm.

And morning rain to ease the pain that comes with being free.
May the new year bring you freedom peacefully.

And morning rain to ease the pain that comes with being free.
May the new year bring you freedom peacefully."

                                        Si Kahn "New Year's Eve"


--
Ciao

Niall Johnson,
Dept. of Geography,
Wilfrid Laurier University.
     john7552@mach1.wlu.ca
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Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 21:41:53 -0700
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Scope of Writing Programs

At ASU, the WPA is responsible for the FE courses--101, 102, 105 (intensive
course for honors students), 107 (=ESL 101), and 108 (=ESL 102). The WPA is
also responsible for 4 200-level writing courses and 1 300-level course (a
total of 60 sections each semester, in addition to about 150 sections of FE
courses). We have a separate director for WAC (although he is doing both FE
and WAC in my absense this year and it's killing him). We also have a separate
director for creative writing (which is a joint program between English and
Fine Arts). When we get our master's track in rhet/comp approved, that program
will have a coordinator (who might be the WPA or the WAC director or someone
else). I should add that the WAC director is tenured in the English
Department, but the WAC program is under the Dean.

-- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
___Arizona State University West
___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Date:         Sat, 2 Jan 1993 20:21:50 CST
From:         Irvin Peckham <peckham@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject:      RE: High school/college comp cou

--
Irvin Peckham
University of Nebraska at Omaha
peckham@unomaha.edu
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Date:         Tue, 29 Dec 1992 10:35:57 -0500
From:         "(Raul A. Huerta)" <kendo@UC1.UCSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Standardizing

David,

How explicit do you make the case for group-centered learning for the
students?

Thanks --

Raul
kendo@uc1.ucsu.edu
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Date:         Mon, 28 Dec 1992 09:28:24 -0700
From:         CROWLEY@NAUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Standardizing Composition Classes

I have a solution to the "rotten situation" that one of you described in
your post under this head.  It isn't popular, but here it is:  let's stop
requiring Freshman English of all who enter a college or university.  Please
note that I am not recommending that we stop offering writing courses;  I am
urging us to reconsider the universal requirement in writing.  I have come to
this conclusion after five long hard years trying to implement the Wyoming
Resolution, and I'll be happy to write more about my plan if anyone cares to
hear it.  The Grinch (alias Sharon Crowley).
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Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 16:58:56 -0500
From:         ENGMYLES@UBVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Standardizing Composition Classes

Eric: hadn't thought of  the possibility of stealing without replicating.
I don't know the answer to that.
What I was thinking of, to the extent that I was thinking at all, was a
kind of deconstruction and description of how we do what we do, maybe even
anthropologically; my assumption is that the rules and procedures exist and
are known, though never stated.  Would stating destroy them?  Possibly.
It might also make a kind of second order thinking about teaching/learning
writing/reading speaking/hearing possible; I do not think I can now imagine
what that would be like.
But if we could get the kids to thinking about how they work and what they
work for (like Thoreau) and writing about it, they might pick up tools about
writing, that is tools they do not know they have to use to think about their
writing.
I tried last semester, as a result of a discussion on MBU, to ge mys tudents
to write down how they wanted to change as a result of taking my course (aside
from simply getting older).  I discovered that they couldn't think in those
terms, which meant that they could not change as writers in any conscious way
since they could not formulate a goal or a change or a difference in any way
specific enough to enable them to produce the result.  I know this is a
simplistic way of attacking the problem.  Yet, I think if I had taken three
weeks (and forgotten about poetry for a little bit) to try to teach them
some self-examination tools to use to describe their writing and what they
perceive as its defects (in terms of what they would like to do) it would
then be reasonable to expect that they might actually come close to do ing
it and really changenot because I had forced them to(though I'm willing to
use force in a good cause, like Pres. Bush) but because they began to
understand themselves.  One analogy is Ben Franklin teaching himself to
write like Addison -- he perceived a need for difference, he found a way
to measure change, and a discipline to achieve it.
Next semester, electricity.

In any event, I'm willing to run risks; we do it all the time now, not
always knowing what they are.

Myles
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Date:         Mon, 28 Dec 1992 11:28:56 -0700
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Standardizing Composition Classes

Our program encourages collaborative learning, group work, lots of student
input into developing the goals and evaluation criteria for writing
assignments. One big TA training hurdle is to help TAs overcome the models of
teaching (teacher centered lecture-discussion) that they know best and to
adopt student centered methods wherein the teacher attempts to create learning
experiences for students (ala Hillocks et al.). Teachers have to learn how to
get students to engage with the course AND WITH EACH OTHER. The kind of
learning that goes on outseide of class (collaborative) is not, for students,
the norm inside of class, and bringing inside and outside togther is hard for
both students and teachers.

-- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
___Arizona State University West
___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Date:         Mon, 28 Dec 1992 11:19:26 -0700
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Standard English

I agree, John, that graduate students can produce great stuff. But don't
neglect the context that you have created for them. The Daedalus group did't
produce their stuff when they were new grad students; it came out of their
learning and experience in your program. Our grad students come up with good
ideas all the time, but I think they do so because they are working within
(and against) a structured context. They are not just drifting about. I think
we do liberate people by confining them, but maybe that's just my 18th century
background rearing its pre-romantic head.

-- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
___Arizona State University West
___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 10:41:31 AST
Comments:     <31DEC92.11558136.0039.MUSIC@UNB.CA>
From:         Russ Hunt <HUNT@UNB.CA>
Subject:      Re: Standardizing Composition Classes

Myles says:
> usage, spelling, mechanics, apostrophes:  drill?  no.  show the kids how
> to look the problems up!
     I usually agree with Myles, but here I'm not so sure.  I
solutely agree with the negative to "drill 'n' kill" as Frank Smith
used to call it, but it's not just a matter of showing them how to
look them up, or even showing them how to use a spell checker.
     They need to know, in their guts (not just because they've
been told) why it matters that "a lot" is not one word, or what
the consequences are of writing "if I had of."   If the consequences
are a splash of red ink in the margin, it doesn't matter.  Even if
the consequences are having to look it up in the _Handbook_ it
doesn't matter.  Not enough, not in the right way.
                                    -- Russ
                                __|~_
Russell A. Hunt            __|~_)_ __)_|~_   Learning and Teaching
Department of English      )_ __)_|_)__ __)     Development Office
St. Thomas University        |  )____) |        EMAIL: hunt@unb.ca
Fredericton, New Brunswick___|____|____|____/  FAX: (506) 450-9615
E3B 5G3   CANADA          \                / PHONE: (506) 452-7700
                       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:07:00 CST
From:         Irvin Peckham <peckham@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Standard English
              92 12:06 am

Marcy: with regards to how you are setting up your program and
other matters.

I certainly concur with you about the differences in students
(and TA's).  My students here (Univ. of Neb. at Omaha) are quite
different than the ones at had at UCSD (where Peg is)--and if you
don't mind my saying so, I prefer the ones here--generally non-
traditional.  I would definitely change my strategy if I were,
for example, in an ivy league; would probably even change
ideological orientation.

My experience here (new writing director) is probably similar to
yours.  I guess I would say I wish I could get an Eliot Wigginton
(Foxfire) thing going, but I content myself with lesser goals.
The drift of course is to move them toward writing situations that
will excite rather than bore them (compromised by institutional
constraints).  I would be careful about the "research paper."  I
would think more in terms of kinds of writing that incorporate
research.
Irv

[I wanted to add that I have had most help from adjucnt teachers.
Including them in the reshaping is absolutely necessary.]
--
Irvin Peckham
University of Nebraska at Omaha
peckham@unomaha.edu
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Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 16:40:32 -0500
From:         ENGMYLES@UBVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: WIOLE

Eric, John: I'd like copies of your pproposals about WIOLE (wiolate mein
wiolet time?  I need a different acronym -- that one is too easy to turn
into why i only learned english)
Myles
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Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 00:26:38 EST
From:         Bill Condon <USERLCBK@UMICHUM.BITNET>
Subject:      Standardizing sections of composition

MLB14, whoever you are:

I've ridden this hobbyhorse before on this list, but here goes again.
Standardizing a syllabus does nothing except force a lot of people to
teach in the way a small group of people, usually a Comp. Committee,
would have them to. In standardizing a syllabus, you actually cripple
a lot of teachers, since they must use someone else's materials and
methods, rather than teaching to their own strengths and/or being able
to dianose what THEIR section needs (and sections vary widely, no matter
what).

Instead of the lockstep syllabus, why not find out what your curricular
goals are, both within the comp program and in the university at large;
then decide what sorts of written products would indicate achievement
of those goals.  That done, you can establish a portfolio-based exit
assessment from your course.  One sure way to assure that an A in
one teacher's section is the same as an A in another's is to have
the teachers read and score portfolios from EACH OTHERS' sections.
This method leaves teachers free to use the methods that suit them
best, but it also assures the kind of "quality control" that your
institution seems to want.

Bill Condon
English Composition Board
1025 Angell Hall
University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48109
userlcbk@umichum.bitnet
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