Organization: Penn State University
Date: Monday, 6 Apr 1992 01:15:00 EDT
From: <PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Macedonia:name and policies

     This text was posted by Andronicos Romanos and has four parts:
     1) Reflects some personal views on the situation in the Balkans.Pri-
                 marily, concerns about Macedonia (Name & State)
     2) Analyzes the disputed word MACEDON and its meaning.
     3) Attempts to pass across some of the complications that may result
                 from the confrontation about the name  (as if the Region
                 hadn't a bunch of other problems)
     4) Based on all of the previous (and mainly #2) some free advise is
                 given to the "author's" greek friends. Then he attempts
                 to up ease some of the tension caused from the delicate
                 matter (for one of the involved parties at least) .

     

                   SOME PERSONAL VIEWS ON THE POLITICS AND THE ARGUMENTS

Should there be a state under the name Macedonia?  There is so much  fuss
         in the networks about the  recognition  of an  independent state
         under the name Macedonia.
       1) I'm not sure it is going to be viable when ethnic Serbs, Bulga-
          rians and Albanians  strongly feel that they should  join their
          respective countries.
       2) Never-the-less, if the above  minorities and  majorities do not
          really exist there and there is a possibility for peaceful set-
          tlements and agreements in the region, then we should not waste
          the opportunity.  We do not need more tension in the Balkans in
          either side of all borders. If this potential state is viable &
          homogeneous and its people want their  sovereign  state then by
          all means, the sooner we settle the thing about the name... the
          better.

Have Greeks looked at all aspects of the situation? Some say that prolon-
         gation of uncertainty may result in the  eruption of hostilities
         in unstable Yugoslavia. They MAY know better. I hate to see even
         a single kid to become orphan as a result of  persistence over a
         name. No name is that important if compared to a loss of one li-
         fe, of a loved one, of the one disaster, of that one tear.
           In other words,and before I move on to the topic of my subject
         let me express my personal view in the clearest way possible: If
         by delaying the recognition of this republic  we run the risk of
         suffers to fellow human beings (STUBBORN  PROBABLY  BUT  HUMANS)
         then the greek diplomacy should honor its  long famous civiliza-
         tion and not let even one drop of blood to spot the name of the
         Hellenes as a result of its delay.  This is not the War of Inde-
         pendence and Survival  when there may be no  alternative against
         the oppressor... The Greeks can not feel proud for their Ionian,
         Dorian or Macedonian ancestors & philosophers if their delay re-
         sults in massacres somewhere is Skopje, Geugeli...
            This is something that  Athens  might want to consider since
         there is no threat of suffering any... "embarrassment" from the
         slavic minorities in Greece today,  as such a thing is as  real
         as the contemporary(?)  thriving(!)  Greek community in Asia Mi-
         nor or East Romylia of Bulgaria.The exchange of populations and
         treaties are common knowledge.
          - Why shouldn't the "Skopjans" give in?  They are the ones that
            may suffer the consequences of what you described...
          * This may be true and I hope they considered it. I don't know.
            I am more interested in Greeks not causing innocent others to
            suffer.The reputation and conscious of the inflexible admini-
            stration in Scopje is not my concern at all.
          - But they are claiming a Greek name.They ridicule us!
          * If it is a theoretical dispute  let each side bring its argu-
            ments and check the historic origin of the name... As far as
            who "ridicules" whom I'm not sure it is that "black & white".
            But let's check the origin of the name  Macedonia and  see to
            this "ridicule".   Hey, it is my subject!  I am not sure that
            many of as know what Macedonia means.

                                  * * *

                                          FOCUSING ON THE WORD "MACEDON"

Is Macedonia a Greek word? It is definitely not a slavic or (Yugo) slavic
         one, for these waves came in the Balkans relatively recent.  Not
         of course as late as the Turks from Central Asia,  but far after
         the collapse of the Western Roman Empire...  sometime in the mid
         Byzantine Era.
           Generations of kings: Perdikkas,Aeropos,Steropns,Philipos,Ale-
         xanders,Amyntas,ets  had ruled under these names again and again
         (and of course the one philosopher Aristotle)...   and all these
         along with  the descendants  of their descendants's  descendants
         had called themselves  Macedonians and Greeks,  participating in
         the Olympic Games with the rest of Greeks   - even from the time
         when their capital Aige was not even considered a village by the
         Athenians, Plataians,Sybaritans,Korianthians... (probable excep-
         tion the Spartans...but what would the Spartians consider a vil-
         lage  was a "joke" in Greece back then)...
          All the above dated centuries before the Roman legions ever as-
         sembled in the brinks of the Tiber...
           The Oxford Dictionary of  Ancient Greece and Rome acknowledges
         that apart from the main Greek body (that got separated in north
         Greece while the Achaians-Aeolians,Ionians,Dorians moved south),
         there were some tiny independent tribes scattered in the region.
         We also meet the Illyrians (ancient Albanians?)  near the Adria-
         tic Sea  and the the Odryssai with the Paions occupying the val-
         leys from the Prespa lakes to Belgrade... Never-the-less accord-
         ing to the source mentioned above  the royal dynasty of Argeidai
          was a hellenic one as the main core in Aige and Argos Orestikon
         (note the similarity between Argos And the Argeidai).
           Could it be possible that not these Hellenes, but other people
         named  "Macedonia"  the area expanding from the  Prespa lakes to
         Olympus and the river Strymon?  Probably not. These other tribes
         used to speck different languages  and thus, would probably  use
         their own term...In fact "Macedonia" has no meaning in any other
         language, but only in Greek...

Mechanism of Greek Names: The language of the  ancient philosophers  has
         this characteristic:  Every  greek word  breaks down to its  ba-
         sic "key-notions": Demo-cracy, Eco-nomics, Aero-nautical, Philo-
         sophy, Pyro-maniac, Geo-logy, Photo-graphy... you name it.
         "Macedon" as all Greek names is no exception to this rule for it
         denotes the forth Greek branches that headed eastwards  (remain-
         ing in north Greece),and not southwards as the Achaians-Aeolians
         or the Ionians and Dorians.  Both parts of the word are very old
         even for the Greek standards and one may find them very "crude".
         It is another indication on how early the Greeks used the term.

"MACOS" is the old doric-makednic word the  Spartans (Dorians too)  would
         use as a "vocabular root" also to denote: "high" in the sence of
         long and large...Random words used in different fields may illu-
         strate my point better: Macro-biotics,Macro-economics,Macro-cosm,
         acro-scopic,Macro-cytosis,Macro-lepidoptera, Macro-pterous,Macro-
         photography, mac-aroni...All of them have tis "root".

"DON": a suffix denoting the area/land of origin of people,even offspring
   -->  Examples? Well the famous  Myrmi-don:  the name of the "tribe" of
        Peleus and Achilles (ancestor & idol of  Alexander the Great Mac-
        edon who also carries a Greek name). The component "Myrmi" has a
        story of its own...but this is irrelevant right now.
   -->  other words with similar roots are: the indoeuropean "den" (land-
        valley-fertility):"den(drys)" for tree, Den-metra (the Greek god-
        dess of land), Demetrios, Dimitri, Danae, Daphni,  Dias (name of
        God Zeus of Olympus, the famous Macedonian mount). Check them in
        a dictionary!

MACEDON(ian), so is the "Higlander" (not the movie) for the rest coastal
        or islandic Greeks. Opening a map can only convince you on his...
        The Scots  aren't the only ones  that used such a  term  for the
        northern mountainous branch of their nation. The Greeks too used
        a similar concept in their language.  This is a valid conclusion
        concerning the origin of the disputed word.
          The Macedonians offered the  Hellenes some of the most glorious
        moments in their history...uniting them & transplanting the Greek
        culture from the coasts of Libya to the frontiers of China &  Ar-
        menia, from distant Afghanistan to the frozen Danube...In additi-
        on to this, one must consider the sense of family name, pride and
        respect for the achievements of ones ancestors that is still very
        strong in Greece (as in other parts of the Globe).  I hope the a-
        bove lines offer some answers to the reader on why the sentiments
        and temper run so high in Greece and mainly Thessalonica (that is
        named after Philip's daughter),Edessa,Kastoria,Florina,Serres...
          Actually,  the Macedonians continue to feel "robbed" & deprived
        of all the above from the moment of announcement of a State using
        their own name, the emblems of Thessalonica in its  foreign bank-
        notes. Mainly, the possibility that the World may "hastily accept
        the preposterous request" (as they call it), even after consider-
        ing "their justified arguments",  only because there is a fear of
        furtherbloodshed in Yugoslavia if things remain fluid further...
        well all these relly pisses them off.
          I don't know what the  development is going to be  but it seems
        to me that the  relations  among the  nations in this  Balkan web
        start with the worst possible way (as if there were no other pro-
        blem in Serbia-Croatia,  the two triangles: Serbia-Albania-Greece
        and the Thracian (Bulgaria,Turkey, Greece),not to mention the po-
        or Greek-Turkish relations along the Aegian and Cyprus.

                                      * * *

                                    LET US TRY TO SEE WHAT LIES AHEAD NOW

Greece "wins":  This can mean that either the new state abandons totally
                and unconditionally the term Macedonia, or it gets incor-
                porated to a smaller Yugoslavia,or is divided between Al-
                bania,Serbia,Bulgaria or some of the above..Whatever hap-
                pens let us hope it is bloodless.
Greece "loses": The name  Macedonia becomes the official title of the new
                independent Republic.Greece & Cyprus do not recognize it.
                Some other countries that value their  friendships  with
                both of them follow this policy, at least, for a while...
                Borders between the two countries close.  Greece protests
                with random vetoes in the EEC (the latter is the most ra-
                dical retaliation, definitely no military action). Trans-
                portation of Greek products to Central Europe & EEC takes
                Route 1: Bulgaria,Romania and Serbia...(vv),  or Route 2:
                shipments to Italy (vv). Route 3: Albania,republics along
                the Adriatic..(vv) does not seem likely right away due to
                the situation of Albanian roads.
                --> Serbia  no longer has access to the port of Thessalo-
                    niki and suffers in a hostile environment even if the
                    dispute with Croatia and Albania is typically settled.
                --> The new republic depends on the routes of Albania (if
                    they improve) and Bulgaria,  hoping these friends  do
                    not pressure for "freedoms" to their "minorities" and
                    their agenda or interests. Will the country survive?
Two parts come to an agreement:  The new state uses the name  "Macedonia"
                with an adjective (Slavic,North,...)  Internal tension in
                both countries.  Greek government falls according to most
                indications and the new government  may or may not conti-
                nue in this path. Definite bitterness from the Greek side
                of the border. Let's hope it is not serious. If only they
                put these sentiments aside and try to view the situation
                with some humor,  bitter probably but humor....

                                   * * *


     IF ONLY THE GREEKS WANTED TO TREAT THE WHOLE THING AS A BIG BAD JOKE

Should the Greeks feel ridiculed:Well they may not escape it but did they
        do their best to avoid what they consider an embarrassment?  Per-
        haps they did their duty in fighting for the  "family name"  just
        a bit too late allowing for the "Republic of Skopje", as the call
        it, to use the term extensivelly for at least one generation.
          Did they do their best  in terms of International policy in or-
        der to build strong alliances (even within their EEC family),  so
        that their demands can be important to the other country-members?
        Probably not,even though the picture towards the outside with all
        the continuous delays may indicate otherwise.We'll soon find out.
          Do they gain anything from REALISING that their "historic beli-
        efs" that they -the Greeks- treasure (fact that they are the des-
        cendants of the ancient Macedonians...) AREN'T probably IMPORTANT
        to foreign policy makers with their own agendas? Definitely yes.
        The message to the naive Greeks is: Grow up!
          Do they lose anything else? It depends on one's personal views.
        Tempers  rising high in Greece  (the most stable of the Balkans),
        may blind the  political judgment there in other aspects.  I hate
        to see the Greeks becoming racist and angry with foreigners, say,
        Slavs and Albanians or Bulgarians that may  seek a better life in
        Greece,or the well-being of the Balkans HAVING to PASS from veto-
        es from bittered Athens in the in the EEC,and I can not write off
        that the Greeks are not going to use this right insensitively, if
        they feel like victims...They can get carried away sometimes.
          What can one  say about those  countries that may recognize the
        "State of Macedonia"? Not Bulgaria and Turkey have their particu-
        lar reasons of course, but the "others":  The one  thing that the
        Greeks are going to say is that those Others  (mainly the wester-
        ners) are only full of  "big fat words" whenever  they praise the
        Hellenic Culture "and count what the Western Civilization owes to
        the Hellenes etc". No, kidding! Get real!  These are nothing else
        but pompous expressions with no value at all.PERIOD!  Politicians
        in Athens,Thessalonici and Brussels will complain to those others
        that they Westerners abandoned the "Shield of Greece" (a term the
        Hellenes used a lot in the past refering to Macedonia) alond with
        the jewel and emblem of this civilization to the Slavs..."   Yes,
        they  the are going to protest a lot charging those that may  ac-
        cept the controversial name: "...as not showing the  respect they
        claimed they had towards Greek history and that all that they ca-
        re with such an action is to smoothen their own agendas."  TRUE!
        THIS MAY BE CONSIDERED BY THE OTHERS AS HANDLING A SITUATION...
          Anyway, back to ideals: The "historic shame"(as they would call
        it in Athens and Thessaloniki) belongs to those that accepted the
        distortion,and thus falls on to the Europeans (as if they cared).
        Don't get them wrong: It is not the Slavs that do not deserve re-
        cognitions...It is more like this: Let them have their own achie-
        vements to be proud of! Not ours!As they already did,they will go
        on claiming that the whole fuss is only about a name/heritage not
        for a singe meter of land and  it is not far from the truth.
          The Greeks should try to comprehend something else:The intenti-
        ons of those other countries & the acceptance the so-called "tra-
        vesty"  could have a  humanitarian dimension  that should not be
        overlooked.  The explosive situation in the Balkans is such that
        dictates recognitions as soon as possible and maps to be drawn to
        control all this killing...  The Europeans  and the  rest of the
        World cannot let people to die only because the  "Skopjans" ridi-
        culously insist on a name they don't own. (They may want to stick
        to it, so that they can appear different from the Serbians,  as I
        read in arguments).This humanitarian objective unfortunately does
        not help the Greek cause, which is not a matter of survival.  The
        Greeks of course counter proposed a bunch of other names that had
        indicatated this (neighboring to Macedonia) region in the past...
        but nothing changed.
          We will see what happens but just for the heck of it let us try
        to imagine the n-th result beind the recognition of the controve-
        rsial (in name) State. We may have some funny "complications"  if
        we play around with the words.Actually we are almost entering the
        corridor of "historic comedy" ... and the  bittered Greeks should
        better  forget the rest for a while and try to laugh:  It is good
        for the human health.

It is funny: For some  reason some of the  South Slavs  (Yugoslavs)  that
        occupy ancient Paionia,(exactly at the frontiers of ancient Mace-
        donia) want to adopt the Greek name of the Highlanders (Macedoni-
        ans). In other words, they want to USE an adjective and be CALLED
        something like: "north Highlanders" in Greek.  Amazing, isn't it!
        Here are some people that not only use the  greek-based  cyrrilic
        alfabet, but also want to call themselves in Greek... A very nice
        hellenization! Maybe a bit superficial if they don't LEARN Greek;
        but let us try to see the whole thing under this different light:

They don't distort the name:  The effect and  worldwide  INFLUENCE  of the
        Hellenic civilization is alive & apparent when  even the neighbors
        PREFER to use the GREEK TERMS versus their own words...   And the
        Greek terms with their historic meaning prevail as: Europe, Asia,
        Anatolia,  Aegean, Adriatic, Atlantic ocean,  Cyprus, Marseilles,
        Georgia, Syracuse,  Crimea,  Napoli,  Monaco, Nice, Trabzon... My
        Greek friends,  bitter though right now,  should probably  try to
        smile a bit with the situation north of their borders:  Here they
        have a people that insists on using the FULL Greek name (even for
        all the  wrong reasons and under a bit perverse a way...) and not
        distort it as the Turks did with "Is tan (Constantinou) Poli".

It is obvious to whom it belongs: The name NOT being DISTORTED allows the
        greek origin of Macedonia to be TRACTABLE at any instant. History
        can not be rewritten thus. The possible mispercertion that may be
        caused to the less educated civilians of distant countries is NOT
        irreparable: For some reason the may get the confusing impression
        that the proud descendants of Alexander III & Philip II converted
        to a slavic speaking people.....and that somehow left their other
        cities and Thessaloniki, moving to considerable northern territo-
        ries...towards the center of the Balkans..!And if you don't think
        that this is funny then you are really depressed.
          Anyway, this missperception will not occur to the educated and
        that is vital.  Actually, THAT IS ALL; because far from being in
        the  Middle Ages (where books could be burnt),this no longer can
        happen! The ancient scripts that survived time cannot be oblite-
        rated. Serious publications along with the palaces & other  monu-
        ments excavated at Pella,Aiges,Diaion, have their own voice. The
        Greek name Macedonia in addition (and by not being distorted) ma-
        kes the things crystal clear.

                                   * * *

                                                              CONCLUSION

The modern Macedonians of  Thessalo-niki, Olympus, Argos Orestikon, Serre
& Phil-ippi as well as their famous ancient "highlander" forefathers that
named the places such,  aren't that much threatened by this  imititation.
Even if claimed, the name Macedonia by itself, as those of Alexander III,
Philip II,etc  are by definition Greek and found in Homer. The Greek name
MACEDON proves the history of the region and that is all.

                                                       Andronikos Romanos













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