From: marms@python.cs.unm.edu (Mike Arms)
Subject: Re: Video Game copiers
Reply-To: sandia!marms@unmvax.unm.edu (Mike Arms)
Organization: Sandia National Laboratories
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 20:26:19 GMT

dleslie@koh-sun1.usc.edu (David Leslie) writes:
>sandia!marms@unmvax.unm.edu (Mike Arms) writes:
>>jjf@byron.u.washington.edu (Matthew Martin) writes:
>->The thing that really gets me, is that all the people who talk about
>->how people who copy SNES and Gensis games are going to hell, usually
>->copy media themselves without even thinking about it.... ever copy an
>->Audio tape? Or a record or CD to Audio Tape or DAT? Ever rent movies
>->and copy em to VHS? Or how about cable to VHS? Yeah, thought so.....
>->they are all illegal buddy... so don't jump on people's back about
>->MGH's or Magicoms unless you are TOTALLY clean yourselve...
>
>>Oh, good, we get to hear from someone else that doesn't know what he's
>>talking about!  You are permitted to make tapes of records or CD's
>>THAT YOU OWN.  Also, you are permitted to tape from cable or regular
>>over the air TV as long as it is for personal use (e.g. time shifting).
>>I'm not positive, but I think that you are permitted to tape from
>>an Audio tape that you own.  You are permitted to tape radio broadcasts
>>for your own use (this includes albums that are played over the radio).
>>Thanks for playing.
>
>You need to relax. Have a bad day? Read his message again and tell
>us where he says it isn't okay to copy stuff that you already own.
>Read it again, and you will see that he specifcally mentions renting
>a movie, and copying it. You want to explain how this is legal? I
>would also assume he refers to borrowing a buddy's CD or LP or tape
>and making a copy. Yes, this too is illegal. As for taping cable,
>that is okay. Anyway, chill before you flame.

jamesb@ecst.csuchico.edu (James L. Brookes) writes:
|  ... (pointing out my message) ...
|So, you're saying that renting is owning?  I think you're not reading
|very carefully.  It's rather obvious what he's talking about.  Hypocracy.


Oh, good.  Two more twerps enter the debate ring.  Round two.

Use those orbs right above your noses guys to *READ* what I wrote!
I did not comment at all concerning taping rental movies.  As such,
I agreed with what Matt said (i.e. taping rented movie *IS* illegal).
James need a refresher course in Inferrence.  To your point David,
Matt said "ever copy an Audio tape? Or a record or CD to Audio Tape or DAT?"
In this section (one of the main sections that I refuted), he did *NOT*
say anything about ownership at all.  He made a blanket statement of
"fact", which was in error.  I corrected that error by pointing out
only that making tapes for yourself of records or CDs that you *OWN* is
LEGAL.  Once again, you both are incorrectly inferring meanings from 
what I wrote and what I didn't write.  

To summarize all of the points:  (laws apply to the USA)
-------------------------------

It is *LEGAL* to:

1. make copies for yourself of records, CDs, and tapes that you *OWN*. 
2. to make backup copies for yourself of software (computer, video games, 
etc.) that you *OWN*.  For these, there usually are restrictions on 
multiple simultaneous use.
3. tape over-the-air TV broadcasts, radio broadcasts, and cable broadcasts
for your personal use (although in some cases of cable broadcasts this may 
be limited to time-shifting).
4. give away or sell copies of media that you own all rights to.  Thus you 
may sell or give away copies of a game that you created (unless you have
sold the rights to that game to someone else). 
5. sell, trade, or give away the original media and ALL copies of that same
media that you own.  Thus you may trade the Ultima VII (which you own) for
his Ultima Underworld.  You may also form a group that regularly trades
software, as long as all copies go with the original media.

It is *ILLEGAL* to:

1. make copies of records, CDs, audio tapes, video tapes, or software that 
you do *NOT* own.  This clearly includes borrowing media from family or
friends, and rentals.
2. sell or give away a copy of media that you *DO* own but do not have all 
rights to (see Legal 4 above).  Thus it is illegal to give a copy of
Wing Commander II (which you own) to a friend.
3. replay tapes of TV broadcasts, radio broadcasts, and cable broadcasts
for monetary profit.  There are some cases where you cannot replay tapes
of such broadcasts for public consumption.
4. It is illegal to keep copies of media that you purchased and subsequently
sold, traded, gave away, or returned.  Thus is it illegal to buy a game a 
Babbages, take it home, copy it, and the return the game to Babbages for a 
refund or exchange.

(Yes, it has been a very stressful month, David.  And sometimes I
like to vent.  Wrong-headed statements make me want to do that a lot.)

-- 
Mike Arms
Editor of Encounter magazine
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