HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Swedish Prime minister says Sweden gaining democratic freedom
Date: 14 Apr 92 11:41:34 GMT
Reply-To: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Organization: SICS, Kista (Stockholm), Sweden

In article <1992Apr13.153146.3403@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov>, fslsh@ocs01 (Lennart S Hultgren) writes:
>In article <1992Apr13.071623.18372@eua.ericsson.se> euafri@eua.ericsson.se (Fredrik.Ostman) writes:
>> [Ramblings omitted]
>
>You seem pretty fed-up with the situation in Sweden.  A simple
>solution would just be to emigrate to a country where the tax
>situation and philosophy is more to your liking.  If you can not find
>one that fits your ticket then maybe Scandinavia is not so bad after
>all.

I disagree with most everything that Fredrik \stman says, but I like
this kind of arguing even less. Your native country is your cultural
background, where you have your friends etc. It is not something you
give up lightly.

If Fredrik thinks that Sweden is so awful, he has every right and
reason to try to change it to the better (from his point of view)
without being told that he could emigrate.

Also, the direction things are going in Sweden, I fear that he will
eventually have his way with most things.
-- 
Lars-Henrik Eriksson				Internet: lhe@sics.se
Swedish Institute of Computer Science		Phone (intn'l): +46 8 752 15 09
Box 1263					Telefon (nat'l): 08 - 752 15 09
S-164 28  KISTA, SWEDEN
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Norden vs. Scandinavia
Date: 6 Apr 92 11:59:56 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology

In article <FISCHER.92Mar31164730@thor.iesd.auc.dk> fischer@iesd.auc.dk (Lars P. Fischer) writes:
>>>>>> "Tomas" == Tomas Eriksson (e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE)
>>>>>> "Jepser" == Jesper Buhl (jbuhl@daimi.aau.dk)
>Tomas> Would you care to explain why Denmark has become so much smaller to us
>Tomas> historically ignorant? :-)
>
>Because the Swedes are militant aggressors.

  Notice however that also Sweden has grown a lot smaller since the time
when Gustavus Adolphus was a contender for the Russian throne (the other
candidate was a certain Romanov):)
  [And fortunately he lost. The thought of that mess over there eastwards 
happening in Sweden makes me say 'Yuck!' :) ]

>Lars Fischer, fischer@iesd.auc.dk | It takes an uncommon mind to think of

-bertil-
--
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
From: reykja@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Reykja Sigurdsson)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 12:55:03 GMT
Subject: Re: I desperately need lower taxes.
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic

 regarding taxes, and why you should pay despite the fact that you have 
no children: well, golly gee, would you like to be old in a society that
is being run by illiterate people who are unable to think logically or 
govern with any competence????

 part of living in a civilized society is taking responsibility for its 
weakest and most vulnerable members. Taxes are one equitable way to have
everyone pay a share of that. 

 of course, you could always come to the US where you would have no medical
care if you are unemployed, where most of the children are coming out of 
the public schools unable to read, where one TRC (triumph of random chance)
could destroy everything you have worked for all your life and where you 
could end up on the street after working for 50 years!!!!

  get a life! grow up, man!!!!

                                          -reykjavik


Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: kristinn@ppc.ubc.ca (kristinn kristinsson)
Subject: Re: Exchange Rate for Icelandic crowns
Reply-To: kristinn@ppc.ubc.ca (kristinn kristinsson)
Organization: UBC Pulp & Paper Centre
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 18:26:16 GMT

In article <72760@netnews.upenn.edu>, havens@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (U2DRAGONLADY) writes:
|> Can someone please tell me how much 58.000,- Icelandic crowns is in
|> U.S. dollars or Swedish crowns. I would appreciate your help.
|> 
|> Thank you,
|> 
|> Jean Elizabeth Havens
|> 
1000USD are 59.270 Icelandic Krona (that is fifty_nine_thousand)
 30.Mar.92
                            Ice. Krona
USD  Bandarikjadollar       59,2700
GBP  Sterlingspund         102,9960
CAD  Kanadadollar           49,8670
DKK  Doensk krona             9,2947
NOK  Norsk krona             9,1824
SEK  Saensk krona             9,9295
FIM  Finnskt mark           13,2093
FRF  Franskur franki        10,6333
BEF  Belgiskur franki        1,7520
CHF  Svissneskur franki     39,5925
NLG  Hollenskt gyllini      32,0335
DEM  Thyskt mark             36,0743
ITL  Itolsk lira             0,0478
ATS  Austurriskir sch.       5,1249
PTE  Portug. escudo          0,4183
ESP  Spanskur peseti         0,5702
JPY  Japanskt yen            0,4459
IEP  Irskt pund             96,0770
ECU  ECU - Evropumynt       73,7141

-- 
Kristinn Kristinsson   Kristinn@ppc.ubc.ca  
Pulp and Paper Centre, University of British Columbia, 2385 East Mall,
Vancouver B.C. V6T 1Z4, CANADA
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Maj Wechselmann
Date: 6 Apr 92 11:56:08 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology

In article <HANS.92Apr3145103@ravn.iesd.auc.dk> hans@iesd.auc.dk (Hans Huttel) writes:
>Hey, Maj Wechelmann turned 50 the other day (April 1, as a matter of
>fact) and nobody seems to have noticed!

  "Is that a joke?" "Uhhh, I wish it were!" - Aliens.

  Sk{mt }sido, I ran across a few articles about what she are dowing nowadays
and it seems that she has been shooting a picture called 'Righteous war or
Genocide?" about the second gulf-war. At least one of the reviews questioned
where the documentations of the atrocities against the Shiites and Kurds in
the latter part of the war were.

>Hans H{\"u}ttel, Office E1-111                   -   hans@iesd.auc.dk  

-bertil-
--
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Subject: Re: Swedish Prime minister says Sweden gaining democratic freedom
Reply-To: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Organization: SICS, Kista (Stockholm), Sweden
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 07:00:16 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.133334.9792@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov>, fslsh@ocs01 (Lennart S Hultgren) writes:
>In article <1992Apr14.114134.24419@sics.se> lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson) writes:
>>If Fredrik thinks that Sweden is so awful, he has every right and
>>reason to try to change it to the better (from his point of view)
>
>no argument with anything so far
>
>>without being told that he could emigrate.
>
>Why not as long as he is not *told* or *made* to do so? 

Because, in my opinion, it is a non-argument (and also rather rude).
-- 
Lars-Henrik Eriksson				Internet: lhe@sics.se
Swedish Institute of Computer Science		Phone (intn'l): +46 8 752 15 09
Box 1263					Telefon (nat'l): 08 - 752 15 09
S-164 28  KISTA, SWEDEN
From: euaaen@eua.ericsson.se (Anders Engwall)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Archaic Viking dialect in the news
Date: 9 Apr 92 12:09:50 GMT
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden

mike@NOMAD.LBL.GOV (Michael Helm) writes:

>Reposting this from another source ... I've never heard of this
>dialect before.  Does anyone have anything to say about the
>article below?  Are the claims made for this dialect valid?
>Thanks, ==mwh

>--- Forwarded mail from GAELIC-L@IRLEARN.ucd.ie

>>From GAELIC-L@IRLEARN Mon Apr  6 04:36:54 1992
>Reply-To: GAELIC-L@IRLEARN.ucd.ie
>From: EVERSON@IRLEARN.UCD.IE
>Subject:      Archaic Viking dialect in the news
>To: irish@fionn.lbl.gov (michael helm)

>>From The Guardian, 3 April 1992, p. 26:
>     
>LAST BATTLE TO SAVE A VIKING TONGUE
>Alex Duval Smith on the dialect you were not supposed to speak in public.
>     
>  Teachers in Sweden are campaigning to save A"lvdalska, the Scandinavian
>dialect closest to the language of the Vikings.
         ^^^^^^^

There are in fact several semi-extinct dialects that have kept a somewhat
archaic structure, e g Ja"mtska, which is/was spoken in Ja"mtland and is
even more different from Standard Swedish than A"lvdalska.

>  A"lvdalska is taught in a dozen schools in northern Dalerna, central
>Sweden, where the dialect has survived thanks to the region's remoteness
>and despite a ban which lasted until 1960 on speaking it in public.

A ban on speaking it in public? Now, that I just don't believe. There might
be som grain of truth in it, though, like pupils being forbidden to speak
it in school or so.

>A"lvdalska is incomprehensible to most Scandinavian[s].

It's different, but not *that* different. A quick comparison: 

>  Meanwhile, Ulumdalska campaigners are saying: <Wildum fersyo"ts dja"ro
>nod fer te biwaaraa dialekte>, which means, "we want to do something to
>save the dialect".

Which in Swedish would be <Vi vill fo"rso"ka go"ra naat fo"r att bevara
dialekten>.

Furthermore,

>And, they add, A"lvdalska is <spraatser saa int will dao>,
>--"the language that will not diw".

<Spraaket som inte vill do">

>Michael Everson

>--- End of forwarded message from GAELIC-L@IRLEARN.ucd.ie

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Anders Engwall				 	Voice: +46 8 727 3893
ELLEMTEL Utvecklings AB, "Alvsj"o, Sweden	Fax: +46 8 647 96 44
		"Bryna nuppa fj{ssa sp}nken" - Razor
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Anders Engwall				 	Voice: +46 8 727 3893
ELLEMTEL Utvecklings AB, "Alvsj"o, Sweden	Fax: +46 8 647 96 44
		"Bryna nuppa fj{ssa sp}nken" - Razor
From: fischer@iesd.auc.dk (Lars Peter Fischer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: (Ice) Hockey, WC, B-group
Date: 13 Apr 92 19:23:05 GMT
Organization: Mathematics and Computer Science, Aalborg University


Since there was some interest in the matter a while back, let me just
state that, yes, Denmark participated in the B-group WC and did
reasonably well. After a bad start (we lost against Japan, Austria,
and Netherlands) Denmark finished in fine style (we won against
Bulgaria, Rumania, Yugoslavia and China). Final standings were

  Austria     12
  Netherlands 11
  Japan        8
  Denmark      8
  Bulgaria     6
  Rumania      5
  China        3
  Yugoslavia   1

Denmark gets to stay in group B. This may end soon, though, and the
changes in eastern Europe and the former USSR means new, powerful
Hockey nations will show up soon.

Best players with Denmark were Heinz Ehlers, Jesper Duus and Torben
Schultz, all playing in the Swedish league. These players joined the
team after the first few games after having finished their jobs in the
Swedish league. A number of players from abroad never showed up due to
playoff in Sweden and the USA. This is much like the situation with
the football national team 10 years ago.

/Lars
--
Lars Fischer, fischer@iesd.auc.dk | It takes an uncommon mind to think of
CS Dept., Aalborg Univ., DENMARK. | these things.  -- Calvin
From: steinar@faust.solan.unit.no (Cindy Kandolf)
Subject: Re: Archaic Viking dialect in the news
Organization: Flodnak, Inc., Trondheim, Norway
Date: 7 Apr 92 20:27:35

Michael Helm writes:
>Reposting this from another source ... I've never heard of this
>dialect before.  Does anyone have anything to say about the
>article below?  Are the claims made for this dialect valid?
>Thanks, ==mwh

I've never heard of it either.... but the writer makes one major
mistake:

<remainder of quoted text from forewarded message>

>  A"lvdalska is the remnant of the language which was spoken in
>Scandinavia by the Vikings 900 years ago. Among national languages, only
>Icelandic and Faeroese come close [to] it, while Swedish, Danish, and
>Norwegian have incorporated many Germanic and Latin words.

The major mistake is the word "Germanic".  The Vikings spoke a language
from the Germanic family!!!  Perhaps what the writer meant was German,
but Germanic is a family of languages including all of the Scandinavian
languages, German, English, etc.....  

Also, all languages that have native speakers (those who learn it as
children) change over time.  While this "dialect"* may have changed less
from the language of a thousand years ago than, say, Swedish as spoken
in Stockholm, i am very uncomfortable with someone simply declaring it
"a remanant of the language which was spoken... by the Vikings".  I would
feel more comfortable with the word "descendant", but then standard
Swedish is also a descendant of that language....

I'd be interested to hear anything anyone _knows_ about A"lvdalska.

*We've just been through all the mess about language vs. dialect.  In
an effort to keep this discussion from descending into more arguing, i
am using the term used in the quoted article.

<Text about attempts to save the dialect deleted.>

Unfortunately, languages and dialects die out.  It is difficult to force
young people to learn a dialect not well understood outside of their
own valley if they see learning the standard dialect as the way to
success.  However, even after a language or dialect dies (has no more
native speakers) it can still be "preserved" - witness Latin.  (Of course,
this is a bit like having dinosaur skeletons in a museum - it's lifeless 
still, but at least now people know it once existed.)  I think the
schools have the right idea teaching it even if the children aren't
interested in speaking it - they still know a little of their
heritage.  Also, i think it would be a good idea to try to write a
"grammar" - in the sense of describing how the language really is used,
not like the books that tell you how "educated" people are supposed
to speak ;-) - and dictionary for this dialect.

Just opinions, of course...

-Cindy Kandolf
 cindy@solan.unit.no
 Trondheim, Norway

(If the address in the header and the address in the signature differ,
please use the address in the signature for e-mail.  We apologize for
any inconvenience.  BEEP!)
From: matsd@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (matsd@physchem.kth.se (mats dahlgren))
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Swedens' Televerket
Date: 16 Apr 92 19:53:23 GMT
Reply-To: matsd@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm

In article <skenny.703432774@femto.engr.mun.ca>, skenny@nano.engr.mun.ca (Shawn Kenny) writes:
>Read an interesting article today in the paper concerning the new cover
>for the phone book which depicted a nude woman and satyr. There has been
>some controversy over the art work and Televerket has opted to supply a
>plain white wrapper if so desired. Is there really that much
>controversy? Naturally the local papers only give a small portion of the
>actual story, so I may be missing some major points.
>--
>=================================
>skenny@pico.engr.mun.ca
>St. John's, NF, CANADA
>"Have a touton or do without'n !"

Yes.  There are some people who say they are offended by the cover of
one phone-book in Sweden.  I have not seen this particular phone-book
myself (it's not distributed yet), only a reproduction in the newspaper.
As far as I could judge, it seems to be much fuss over a small problem
(someting like the hypociritic "moral majority" and N.E.A.).  Televerket
(the Phone Service) has agreed to give out "neutral" front pages for
free in these areas. 

In general, I think these art works on the phone-books are very nice.
Also, I guess they have fulfilled their mission, since there is debate
over them...  There has also been much discussion about one front page
of one of the yellow-pages books in Stockholm, with only the artist's
name and phone number on (Dan Wolgers). 

/mats d.
        (looking forward to a Mapplethorpe photograph on next years 
        phone-books in the bible-belt... (or in sweden, for that matter).)

********************************************************************************

  mats dahlgren 
  Dept. of Physical Chemistry		Mail:	matsd@physchem.kth.se
  The Royal Institute of Technology	Phone:	+46 8 790 8595
  S-100 44  Stockholm, Sweden           Fax:	+46 8 790 8207

              All opinions expressed above are private opinions.
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Iranian embassy torched
Date: 6 Apr 92 13:14:01 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology


  Yesterday a large number (70+) of demonstrators broke through the fence 
of the Iranian embassy in Stockholm, evaded the two unarmed security-
company guards and torched six cars, the embassy and a outbuilding. Four
persons were hurt.
  Twentyfour persons have been arrested under suspicion of arson, vandalism 
and violent riot.

  The mujahedin have claimed responsibility for the attack and said that
is was a retaliation for an Iranian attack against mujahedin camps in Iraq.

-bertil-
--
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
From: einart@sail.LABS.TEK.COM (Einar Traa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Looking for Freia (yum,yum)
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:59:10 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

>Try their "Stratos" milk chocolate, or "Laban" seigmenn (seigmann is 
>untranslatable (someone is sure to attempt it, anyway ... :-))

Gummybears.
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Swedish Prime minister says Sweden gaining democratic freedom
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:35:04 GMT
	<10885@chalmers.se> <1992Apr10.034910.17728@midway.uchicago.edu>
	<1992Apr10.151322.13422@eua.ericsson.se>
	<1992Apr10.205931.21058@athena.mit.edu>
	<1992Apr13.071623.18372@eua.ericsson.se
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista

In article <1992Apr13.071623.18372@eua.ericsson.se> euafri@eua.ericsson.se 
(Fredrik.Ostman) writes:

   >2. I'm not poor, I can (just) afford school for my children. The government
   >takes this money and pays it for me. Since the government has
   >taken my money, I can't afford sending my children to a private
   >school. The government wouldn't pay this for me. I have no
   >freedom to choose which school my children should go to. I say
   >this freedom is a *democratic freedom* q.e.d.

  QED what? What is it you regard yourself as having demonstrated? And
what, if anything, does "democratic" mean here?
From: John.DeCarlo@p109.f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org (John DeCarlo)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Swedish Capitalists
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1992 10:33:23 -0500

On <Apr 06 07:36>, Fredrik.Ostman (euafri@eua.ericsson.se ) wrote:

 F >Another thing: If you rent a garage place for your car, you have to pay
 F >moms on the rent if the garage is in another house than you live in.
 F >If you rent a garage and an apartment in the same building, you don't
 F >have to pay moms. This means of course that the landlord takes the 25%
 F >rise into his own pocket. Who said socialism wasn't good for capitalists?

Well, I went to a talk by the Swedish Ambassador to the U.S. organized by my 
Swedish School, basically about the changes with the new government.  Two 
things he said are relevant to this discussion. 

1) When the VAT was reduced from 25% to 18% on food/goods (?), the prices in 
the stores didn't go down at all (or very little).  The store owners said "At 
least the prices didn't go up." !!

2) There is a saying in Sweden that if you own a food store and aren't a 
millionaire after a year, you must be doing something wrong.
From: Espen.H.Koht@dartmouth.edu (Espen H. Koht)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Skolpeng
Date: 11 Apr 92 21:00:02 GMT
 <hberg.71@polisci.pol.umn.edu>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

In article <hberg.71@polisci.pol.umn.edu>
hberg@polisci.pol.umn.edu (Bob Hammarberg) writes:

> This is the same idea as the voucher system that the conservatives in the US 
> are trying to push through.  Parents who do not send their children to 
> public schools (where horrible-liberal humanism is taught) would get 
> vouchers from the state that could be used to pay the tuition in Good 
> Christian Schools.  We horrible-liberals regard this as a very regressive 
> idea.

   Well, the problem with this system has not so much to do with where
students get educated as much as what is the goal.  This is being
slated as a way to improve the educations system, but unfortunately
there is nothing about this system that will improve the overall
quality of the education given. 

Espen
From: tml@tik.vtt.fi (Tor Lillqvist)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Swedish Prime minister says Sweden gaining democratic freedom
Date: 16 Apr 92 19:39:55 GMT
	<1992Apr10.034910.17728@midway.uchicago.edu> <11014@chalmers.se>
	<1992Apr15.072407.29855@eua.ericsson.se>
Organization: Technical Research Centre of Finland, Laboratory for Information
	Processing (VTT/TIK)
In-reply-to: euafri@eua.ericsson.se's message of 15 Apr 92 07:24:07 GMT

Re: the free school lunch.

My personal opinion is that the quality and tastiness (is that a
word?) of the (free) school lunch can't be so bad. It's just that kids
are so spoiled (not just these days, when I was in school there was
much complaining about the food also) that they don't like it. 

For kids from poorer families I am certain that it has an important
function, providing necessary nourishment. But of course, few school
kid has the guts to admit in front of others "I think it's good that
we get a free meal a day, it is often the only warm meal I get" if the
common opinion in vogue is that it tastes like sh*t.
--
Tor Lillqvist,
working, but not speaking, for the Technical Research Centre of Finland
From: hberg@polisci.pol.umn.edu (Bob Hammarberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: I guessed!!
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:13:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: polisci.hberg.68
Organization: Department of Political Science, University of Minnesota

In article <1992Mar24.134754.18809@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:

>And Finlandswedes are against this freedom of choise, Jorn Donner
>the narrow minded one at the top.
>jarmo ryyti

I didn't catch the beginning of this discussion, but is Jorn Donner really 
in favor of retaining Swedish in Finland.  Back in the late 60s/early 70s he 
was suggesting that all Finlandswedes should be put on a reservation on 
Aland.  Has Jorn gone soft/bourgois in his old age?