HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: soap@igc.apc.org (Alex Brozan)
Newsgroups: alt.co-ops
Subject: Bicycle Trailers?
Date: 15 Nov 92 21:14:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1337700024:000:970
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!soap    Nov 15 13:14:00 1992


From: Alex Brozan <soap>
Subject: Bicycle Trailers?



Hello... I am looking for information or advice on building
a bicycle trailer, that is, one that can be hooked onto the back of
a bicycle and will allow full range of turning and movement, etc.

I have seen several advertised, but they are invariably expensive
I know they are quite common in Europe and other countries, but here
in the U.S., hardly a  bike-frinedly country, they are few and far
between.

I would appreciate any info on how i might go about building on,
what a good design would be, where I can get parts, and
how I can keep the costs low (I was thinking under $200)

I was thinking I could get some wheels and maybe an axle at, say
Sears, and then lumber for the trailer bed, but am wondering how i would
construct the rest of it, ie, the part that would connect to the bike/

Please respond by e-mail as I check these conferences infrequently.


thank you,

alex brozan
tufts university e-house
Newsgroups: alt.co-ops
From: nagorsky@engin.umich.edu (Brian Nagorsky)
Subject: Re: Co-ordinator's Employement Contracts
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 11:23:06 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Distribution: na 
Keywords: Co-ordinators, Employment Contracts

In article <lpG=sC-@engin.umich.edu> blagdon@engin.umich.edu (Kenneth James Clark ) writes:
>At least if you are one of those employees.  You should know that there
>is a significant fraction of the current residents of the ICC that feel
>that our staff members are untouchables and aren't accountable to the
>membership.  Please note that Brian Nagorsky, who sent one of the responses
>to the original posting, is currently one of the paid staff members.  
>Hardly an objective opinion. 
>
I should point out that I sent the contract that is agreed to by the Board
and staff members and the personnel policies that have been adopted by
the board.  There was no opinion in those documents.  

Thanks for the compliment Ken 

Brian
Newsgroups: alt.co-ops
From: blagdon@engin.umich.edu (Kenneth James Clark )
Subject: Re: Co-ordinator's Employement Contracts
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 09:04:39 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Distribution: na 
Keywords: Co-ordinators, Employment Contracts

In article <JrF=3b@engin.umich.edu> colinj@engin.umich.edu (Colin Johnson) writes:
>	You might want to contact the Inter-Cooperative Council in
>Ann Arbor Michigan. They have a contract for their employees that seems
>to be very fair and equitable.

At least if you are one of those employees.  You should know that there
is a significant fraction of the current residents of the ICC that feel
that our staff members are untouchables and aren't accountable to the
membership.  Please note that Brian Nagorsky, who sent one of the responses
to the original posting, is currently one of the paid staff members.  
Hardly an objective opinion. 

If you intend to use these contracts as a model, I strongly suggest you
add written, quantifiable performance requirements; yearly, public
performance appraisals; and short contracts, with renewal dependent
upon the ratings received in these appraisals.  This will only guarantee
you that if you get a bad apple, you aren't stuck with them for life.

Note that the above mention of Brian Nagorsky is not intended to imply
that he is a problem.  He's one of the few paid staff members that no
one is griping about.  

KC
Newsgroups: alt.co-ops
From: blagdon@engin.umich.edu (Kenneth James Clark )
Subject: Desempowerment by permanent staff
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 13:44:10 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Distribution: na 
Keywords: Co-ordinators, Employment Contracts, Flame

In article <qpH=!D_@engin.umich.edu> colinj@engin.umich.edu (Colin Johnson) writes:
>	Let's not consider that it was board members that wrote the
>contracts and hired the current staff.
 
And let's not consider that it was a peer review board that charged
the current maintenance coordinator with poor job performance, and
the ICC's contracted staff chief that decided to close the discussion.

How are we as co-opers supposed to be empowered when the staff protects
itself from being reviewed?  

>	Almost none of which ever gets brought up by the members of
>ICC-Ann Arbor.

Everytime we try we get shot down by staff members and the good-feely
group that thinks things are going wonderfully as the houses decay and
membership drops.  If you point out a problem, you are suppressed from
the staff, houses that are benefitting from the current arrangment, 
and housemates that don't want you to make waves.

>	And gripe is about all that they ever do. Not a word of
>constructive criticism or feedback.

Constructive criticism?  How about "The executive director has no
right to decide the result of a contract discussion".  Or maybe "
If the Maintenance Coordinator has been found to be performing in
a sub-standard way, their contract should not be renewed."   If we
would do ourselves a favor and stop taking every negative observation
as a gripe and *maybe* *consider* that that might be a legitimate
criticism, we might be able to empower some people for a change, and
get some useful things accomplished.

>	Let's face as far as member empowerment goes there almost none
>here in Ann Arbor. And that is all on the part of the members they
>don't want to be empowered. They just want to complain.

I'd love to have some power for a change.  Frankly, I'd have to stick
around for at least two years and I'm not going to go through the 
aggravation.  Besides, the above mentionned Maintenance Coordinator has
decreed that my room will be ripped out and re-built as more cubby-holes.
I've being forced to leave this May.  Do you honestly expect me to 
come back when my room has been ripped out from under me once already?

KC
From: djb@mailer.cc.fsu.edu (David Brightbill)
Newsgroups: alt.co-ops
Subject: Re: intentional communities
Date: 24 Nov 92 01:34:09 GMT
Organization: Florida State University

I live in just such a community as the original poster described.  A bunch of uspooled our cash and bought 240 (now 320) acres.  We set aside a bunch of common
land including some wet land.  The rest was subdivided and sold back to the members.  That was 20 years ago.  Most of us could barely raise the money to pay for our part of this place but now we are mostly prosperous.  Our community is not
unique.  There are many examples all over the world of similar communiites. 
Our community is semi-rural but there are many urban cooperative communities as
well.  

For more information on our community, check out a book titled "The Best     
Investment--Land in a Loving Community" by Dave Felder.  For info on
land cooperatives and co-housing, check out the co-ho forum on the well
(telnet to well.sf.ca.us or dial in via cis to system well>  The well is 
a commercial system and is not free.  Be prepared to fork over your credit
card number or make other arrangements to pay.
d.
.
From: Michael Kwun <kwun@umich.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.co-ops
Subject: Re: Desempowerment by permanent staff
Date: 23 Nov 1992 21:25:19 GMT
Organization: Just me and my duo 210. Heh.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu
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X-XXMessage-ID: <A736B1A41B04B6D7@crc-mac15.css.itd.umich.edu>
X-XXDate: Mon, 23 Nov 92 16:04:52 GMT
Originator: news@stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu

Just wanted to apologize for the overly long lines... I'm using a new
news poster, and I keep forgetting to keep my lines to 77 characters.

kwun@umich.edu                |  Consultant, CSS, ITD, U of Michigan
userW0ZA@umichum              |  Student, for a bit longer, U of Michigan
MiKwun@aol.com                |  Individual mind with thoughts of its own
939 Dewey #102, AA, MI 48104  |  Inter-Cooperative Council--AA Alumni
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Newsgroups: alt.co-ops
Subject: Re: intentional communities
Date: 16 Nov 1992 05:51:09 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


  Let me try this idea again briefly:

  If you take a group, say of 50 people.  They decide to pool
their finances in order to buy let's say 200 acres for a commun-
ity.
Now by all methods of calculation, it's going to be ==much==
cheaper to buy such a parcel for these 50 than for each person
or family unit to buy his own parcel.
The savings should be great.  Depending on local, land prices,
etc., with 50 members each contributing equal amounts, 
acreage at $2000 per acre (which should buy some pretty decent
land), that works out to a cost of $4000 per person.

Then, depending on a great variety of architectural designs,
perhaps something along the lines of Habitat in Montreal,
dwelling units can be built for perhaps as low as $5000 per
unit assuming all labor is donated by members.
Farm needs to be set up and run to produce sufficient
produce and other homegrown food items to be self sufficient.
That is mostly labor intensive, so capital outlay is low.
Clean energy systems get cheaper every year.  Initial
designs can be set up for very frugal energy use but will
expand as more solar panels, etc. are added.

Why isn't such a ==low priced== solution to modern society
living at least tried more often?
In a phrase:  spirit of cooperation.
It's purely a sociological obstacle, not a financial or
physical one.
I don't call this utopian.  This is as practical an idea
as any other attempt to live well within one's means.


-- 
Capt. Kirk: let's head for that planet, third from the sun, it
            looks promising.... |-)
Newsgroups: alt.co-ops
From: blagdon@engin.umich.edu (Kenneth James Clark )
Subject: Re: Co-ordinator's Employement Contracts
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 14:03:44 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <1er65pINNrl2@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu> Michael Kwun <kwun@umich.edu> writes:
>
>I lived in the ICC for four years and spent three of those years on the
>board of 
>directors.  I must admit that my position on the board probably gave me a
>greater level
>of accessibility to the staff than most members, but I have little
>sympathy for most 
>complaints that the "staff members are untouchables," because I know that
>most of them
>have never called a staff member, talked to a staff member, asked their
>house president
>about filing a grievance (during all my time in the ICC, not a single
>member-staff
>grievance was filed, tho the procedure existed).


I have lived in the ICC for three months.  The maintenance coordinator has
politely ignored me and told me to discuss things with my house maintenance
manager on the two occasions I have tried to talk with her.  She has
told my house maintenance manager that our broken dishwashing machine
"still works" and we should wait until the motor dies before considering
fixing it (this despite the repair person's assessment that it is wasting
40% of the electricity it uses, it will likely die within a year, and 
we will be without a dishwashing machine for about two weeks until a
replacement motor arrives -- this in a house of 50 people). 

I have been told from my house president and maintenance manager that 
confronting the Maintenance Coordinator will cause her to feel personally
attacked and refuse to discuss the matter any further.  I have been told
by no less than five people in my house that talking to this person is
largely pointless.

I have pointed out my concerns to my house president, maintenance manager,
and people in their positions at other houses.  If I thought I had been
personally harmed by a staff action in a way that I could actually
challenge, I would grieve the staffperson.  (I was unaware of that
option, I've haven't been here a term yet.)  

Just how much do you expect a student to do?  How many times do you get
told to shut up before you consider doing so?

KC
From: Michael Kwun <kwun@umich.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.co-ops
Subject: Re: Co-ordinator's Employement Contracts
Date: 23 Nov 1992 17:59:21 GMT
Organization: Just me and my duo 210. Heh.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu
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X-XXMessage-ID: <A73683914301B6D7@crc-mac15.css.itd.umich.edu>
X-XXDate: Mon, 23 Nov 92 12:48:17 GMT
Originator: news@stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu

In article <JrF=3b@engin.umich.edu> Colin Johnson, colinj@engin.umich.edu
writes:
>	You might want to contact the Inter-Cooperative Council in
>Ann Arbor Michigan. They have a contract for their employees that seems
>to be very fair and equitable.

You might also want to contact the University Students' Cooperative
Association at
2424 Ridge Rd, Berkeley, 94709.

With regards to the discussion of the fairness of the ICC contract...
In article <lpG=sC-@engin.umich.edu> Kenneth James Clark,
blagdon@engin.umich.edu writes:
>At least if you are one of those employees.  You should know that there
>is a significant fraction of the current residents of the ICC that feel
>that our staff members are untouchables and aren't accountable to the
>membership.  Please note that Brian Nagorsky, who sent one of the
responses
>to the original posting, is currently one of the paid staff members.  
>Hardly an objective opinion. 

I lived in the ICC for four years and spent three of those years on the
board of 
directors.  I must admit that my position on the board probably gave me a
greater level
of accessibility to the staff than most members, but I have little
sympathy for most 
complaints that the "staff members are untouchables," because I know that
most of them
have never called a staff member, talked to a staff member, asked their
house president
about filing a grievance (during all my time in the ICC, not a single
member-staff
grievance was filed, tho the procedure existed).
Newsgroups: alt.co-ops
From: colinj@engin.umich.edu (Colin Johnson)
Subject: Re: Co-ordinator's Employement Contracts
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 19:08:49 EST
Organization: Students for a Cooperative Society
Distribution: na 
Keywords: Co-ordinators, Employment Contracts, Flame

In article <lpG=sC-@engin.umich.edu> blagdon@engin.umich.edu (Kenneth James Clark ) writes:
>In article <JrF=3b@engin.umich.edu> colinj@engin.umich.edu (Colin Johnson) writes:
>>	You might want to contact the Inter-Cooperative Council in
>>Ann Arbor Michigan. They have a contract for their employees that seems
>>to be very fair and equitable.
>
>At least if you are one of those employees.  You should know that there
>is a significant fraction of the current residents of the ICC that feel
>that our staff members are untouchables and aren't accountable to the
>membership.  Please note that Brian Nagorsky, who sent one of the responses
>to the original posting, is currently one of the paid staff members.  
>Hardly an objective opinion. 
>

	Let's not consider that it was board members that wrote the
contracts and hired the current staff.

>If you intend to use these contracts as a model, I strongly suggest you
>add written, quantifiable performance requirements; yearly, public
>performance appraisals; and short contracts, with renewal dependent
>upon the ratings received in these appraisals.  This will only guarantee
>you that if you get a bad apple, you aren't stuck with them for life.
>

	Almost none of which ever gets brought up by the members of
ICC-Ann Arbor.

>Note that the above mention of Brian Nagorsky is not intended to imply
>that he is a problem.  He's one of the few paid staff members that no
>one is griping about.  
>

	And gripe is about all that they ever do. Not a word of
constructive criticism or feedback.

>KC

	Let's face as far as member empowerment goes there almost none
here in Ann Arbor. And that is all on the part of the members they
don't want to be empowered. They just want to complain.

	Colin J.
-- 
Colin Johnson           |Colin.Johnson@um.cc.umich.edu
Ann Arbor Michigan      |colinj@caen.engin.umich.edu


Newsgroups: alt.co-ops
From: BARANSKI@veamf1.nusc.navy.mil (Jim Baranski)
Subject: Back Articles, Please???
Organization: Naval Underwater Sound Center, New London CT
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 16:53:31 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

Hi,

I first tried to post to this group a couple of weeks ago, now I find that 
there seems to have been some discussion in the meantime, but I've missed it.

Does anyone out there have any back articles, or an archive of discussions
concerning Co-Housing or communities that they can send me? (send mail first!)

The New London County Co-Housing Association is looking for people in New
London County CT interested in Co-Housing Communities.  

We are looking at several different possible sites:

Old Mill sites:  There are a lot of these around Norwich CT.  Unfortunately,
most of them are too large for a small group of people, and most of them lack a
large amount of open space.  The pluses are the existing buildings, and their
beautifull architecture and historicity.  The city of Norwich would like to see
some of these mill buildings renovated, so some cooperation should be expected. 
The mills also usually have nice river access.  A couple have been renovated to
condos with pretty good success (poor financial success).

80 Acres of farm across the river from the Ponemha Mill...  A nice old farm
with river frontage, it's been in estate for a couple of years.

Our current farm, Lanman Hill, 15 acres of woods and hills, with a hundred
acres of woods & hills surrounding it, possibly 25 of which could be purchased.
The big problem here is that although it is nice land, it's not good farming
land, and because it is hilly it would be hard to site a large number of
people/houses/parking, and still keep it's character.

One small mill in Pocquetonoc Cove outside of Norwich, with a nice mill pond,
near the Foxwoods Casino.  A nice small managable mill, with plenty of open
land around it, a few houses around it which could eventually be bought for
those who prefer to have their own house...

Thanks,

Jim Baranski, Lanman Hill,
New London County Co-Housing Association, 203-889-4968
Newsgroups: alt.co-ops
From: colinj@engin.umich.edu (Colin Johnson)
Subject: Re: Co-ordinator's Employement Contracts
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 00:37:16 EST
Organization: Students for a Cooperative Society (SCS) 
Distribution: na 
Keywords: Co-ordinators, Employment Contracts

	You might want to contact the Inter-Cooperative Council in
Ann Arbor Michigan. They have a contract for their employees that seems
to be very fair and equitable.

	Address:	Inter-Cooperative Council
			4002 Michigan Union
			Ann Arbor Mich 48019
			(313) 662-4414

	Or you might want to contact NASCO (the North American Students
of Cooperation) as they have lots of information like this (albiet most
of it for student cooperatives.

	I don't have the address on hand but their phone is (313)663-0889
and you can send them email at nasco@um.cc.umich.edu

Colin J.
-- 
Colin Johnson           |Colin.Johnson@um.cc.umich.edu
Ann Arbor Michigan      |colinj@caen.engin.umich.edu


Newsgroups: alt.co-ops
From: nagorsky@engin.umich.edu (Brian Nagorsky)
Subject: Contracts
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 01:07:25 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

I've emailed a copy of the Uniform Working Conditions Contract(UWCC) that
the ICC Ann Arbor uses with it's employees and also the personell section
of our Standing Rules.  Others who want copies should email me.

Brian Nagorsky
From: Robert Abrams <rabrams@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: alt.co-ops
Date: 19 Nov 92 06:21 PST
Subject: Re: NASCO Institute Report
Nf-ID: #R:KINGDON.92Nov12210714@east-win.e:1053957199:cdp:1337700025:000:1046
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!rabrams    Nov 19 06:21:00 1992


Thanks for your report on the NASCO event.  It is good to see some
real discussion of cooperatives in this conference which goes
beyond flaming.

A couple of follow up points to your report.

1) E-mail: anyone not on Econet should check it out.  It provides
a very supportive environment for eco-peace activists of many
stripes.  Econet also has a new student rate and has a Simulator
program so that people can practice the system before they go
on-line.

2) NASCO as housing only organization:  It is probably a good
thing that NASCO is focusing on what they do best.  For those of
you interested in food coops, consider joining the National
Alliance of Food Cooperatives.

3) Integrated action research:  I have had experience with campus
audit type projects, and especially with conducting them in an
academic context.  The info is available in a cooperative
hypertext format called ECCE!

Anyone interested in Econet's student rate should contact Econet
directly.  If you have questions about any of the other stuff,
contact me.

Bob Abrams
From: Robert Abrams <rabrams@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: alt.co-ops
Date: 19 Nov 92 06:27 PST
Subject: Re: Co-ordinator's Employement Contract
Nf-ID: #R:BxvvGA.AMq@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca:208165098:cdp:1337700026:000:243
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!rabrams    Nov 19 06:27:00 1992


You might try contacting Carol Lee Colter.  She is based in
Seattle.

Bob Abrams Corretion:  The name is spelled Carolee Colter.  Her
organization is called Community Consulting Group.  She is a paid
consultant, but she has a good reputation.

Newsgroups: alt.co-ops
From: wkirk@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (Bill Kirk DCS)
Subject: Co-ordinator's Employement Contracts
Summary: Contract Copies Wanted 
Keywords: Co-ordinators, Employment Contracts
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: can
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 23:19:21 GMT

I live in a 50 unit housing co-op that has one full time employee who is
the Co-ordinator.  The Co-operative and the Co-ordinator is attempting to
draw up an employment contract and/or policy and procedures manual.  If
anyone has had expreience doing this I would like to hear from you.  If
people could send me copies of the contracts/policy and procedure manuals
that they use it would be a great help.  Thanks.

My addresses are:	William S. Kirk
			5-590 Bearinger Road,
			Waterloo, Ontario
			N2L 6C4

	or	wkirk@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca
Newsgroups: alt.hackers
From: flaps@explorer.dgp (Alan J Rosenthal)
Subject: avoiding stupid ibm-pc boot sequences (was Re: hey y'all)
Distribution: na
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:48:08 GMT

gilligan@cs1.bradley.edu (Edward Henigin) writes:
>The computers in one lab at my school are all networked, and when you 
>boot them, they go to a menu.  I hate menus, especially when I didn't
>write it myself.  I like to be in control.  The <ctrl>-<break> key
>was disabled, and the [exit to dos] command on the menu required a
>password.

It's easy to prevent an ibm-pc from running autoexec.bat.

When you press ^S on an ibm-pc, the stupid thing just waits until you press ^Q
(or is it just press any key?).  (Real computers don't stop all processing just
because output is suspended!)  So with ^S and ^Q, you can manage to go slowly
through the pre-autoexec.bat boot sequence, and you can manage to do a ^S in
the middle of the first command.com prompt.  Then press ^C and you're out.