HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shiva@b30.ingr.com (Shiva Shivakumar)
Subject: Re: Literary Awards in Tamil
Organization: Intergraph
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:26:37 GMT

In article <9208311809.AA22146@cec1.wustl.edu> sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian) writes:
>
>        Thi.Jaanakiraaman also got a Sahitya Academy award for his short-
>story collection `sakthi vaiththiyam'. I have not read this collection, but
>I have read his novels `ammaa vandhaaL' and `mOgamuL'. The fact is that
>Tamil writer Rajam Krishnan who was in the selection committee for awards
>resigned her membership post when Thi.Jaa was chosen by the committee for
>the Sahitya Academy award ( Tamil ) for that year as she found the writings
>of Thi.Jaa very obscene on women. Thi.Jaa's `Ammaa vandhaaL' has a delicate
>and explosive theme and it is a great work. This book breaks away from the
>established images of women ( `Laxmi',Rajam Krishnan..) , in a non-commercial
>sense. Rajam Krishnan's resignation following the award to Thi.Jaa just tells
>us the opposition that good Tamil writers face even among the Sahitya Academy
>selection committee for selecting books for awards.
>                
>                                                                      - SP
>                                                         sp2@cec1.WUSTL.edu

Rajam Krishnan's resignation is apparently based on ideological difference,
which is ok IMHO. If she had resigned because her cousin didn't get the
award, THAT would be sick. 

Just wanted to point out this difference, since earlier postings on this
topic have focussed on 1) absence of good taste among Tamil readers and
2) Role played by 'influence' in awards.


About Lakshmi : I am not her fan, she has many fans in my mother's generation.
But I do not think her novels as being 'male chauvenistic' as SP or Sundaramoorthy suggested. They revolved around women and their problems and the women
try to solve the problem within the system. 

Please keep up the good work naNbargaal !

Jagadisan Shivakumar
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian.telugu,soc.culture.indian
From: nish@cv1.chem.purdue.edu (Nishantha I.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: test
Date: 26 Aug 92 20:11:01 GMT
Organization: Purdue University


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------  
  Nishantha Illangasekare               Email: Nishantha@adam.chem.purdue.edu
  Dept of Chemistry			       nish@cv1.chem.purdue.edu
  Purdue University		        Phone: 317-743-1768 (H)
  West Lafayette                               317-494-5289 (W)
  IN 47906                     
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: thiyagarajan@mims.enet.dec.com (RT)
Subject: Re: Animal Sacrifice in Temples
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 19:01:28 GMT



In article <42433@ogicse.ogi.edu>, partha@mse.cse.ogi.edu (R. Parthasarathy) writes...
>Meenan Vishnu writes:
> 
>> but, hope that you don't treat this as a flame.
>>There is a saying in coimbatore area.
>>"saathathilE pee irukku, iruthaapale oothunu sonnana
>>
>>
>>If there is shit in the food, how can we filter it and eat. We have to
>>throw the food. We know all the veda and varNa and things and
>>their interpretations, defence and what not does not have
>>any sense. Why do people still defend that?
>>
> 
>Mr. Vishnu has been an ardent critic of the Vedas. At the same time he
>treat humanity the way it should be. Does a terrorist organization like
>LTTE treat humanity the way it should be treated? Killing people, especially
>FYI, I have read a brief translation of the Rg Veda (I forgot the author's
>sexual remarks). I can post that chapter if guys are interested. 
You can post/or e-mail to me

> 
> 
>So give up these prejudiced analysis and contribute something useful for
>everyone.
> 
>Partha sarathy

I have requested Mr Meenan long back (in scs or sci) to post something which
will unit people together and not to propogate hatred. Unfortunately he has 
put the maximum no of hate-articles in sct


But you know, terrorists/ltte-jalras are known for their in-tolerence they
won't even hear your suggestions

RT
From: vidynath@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyarath K Rao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: vada mozhi patru atraar
Date: 26 Aug 1992 16:48:52 -0400
Organization: Department of Mathematics, The Ohio State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: function.mps.ohio-state.edu

In article <BtIEn0.9uG@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> 
  srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca (K.Srinivasan) writes:

>** perumaaL thirumozhi 1.4 **\>
[deleted material]
>He also says, "avvada mozhiyai patru atraargaL payil arangaththu"
>That translates as, 
>"andha vada mozhiyai patru illadhavargaL payilum srirangaththu". i.e.
>"of Sri Rangam, where those with no attachment to Sanskrit, learn..."

(Basing myself on an article in "Change and Social mobility in India", edited
by J. Silverberg)

There are two major Vaishnavaite ritual systems: Vaikhanasas and Pancharatras
[in TeX, Vaikh{\= a}nasa, Pa{\t n}car{\= a}tra]. The former claim to hold on to
Vedic orthodoxy and one of their major works Vaikhanasa Smarta Sutra (so much
for smarta=non-vaishnavaite) is a conglomaration(sp) of a grhya sutra and
handbook of vaishnavaite rituals. Pancharatrins place(d) equal value on
Sanskrit and non-Sanskrit works. Srirangam hewed to the Pancharatra line,
at least till it came under the sway of Vijayanagar empire. This may be
what is reflected in the quote.

I do not have access to any othe original works the article I am paraphrasing
quotes. So caveat emptor (incidentally, what is Latin for "reader beware"?)


-- 
Vidhyanth Rao			It is the man, not the method, that solves
nathrao+@osu.edu		the problem. - Henri Poincare
(614)-366-9341			[as paraphrased by E. T. Bell]
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,alt.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian
From: ck@csug.cs.reading.ac.uk (Chandrasekhar Kambhampati)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: A threat from ...
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:41:22 GMT
Organization: University of Reading


The spokesperson for the tigers, the arch-propagandist, anti-everything,
the terrorist, 

mvishnu@morse.uwaterloo.ca (m vishnu) writes:

>This is one of the acts of Indians that turned the Tamil people to the
>sides of Tigers.  Remeber, Tamils civilians welcomed IPKF by garlanding
>them.

SUre they thought that the Indians would continue where the terrorists
left off! RIght Mr Terrorist!

>Yes,  Rajiv proved that he was more of an Italian than Indian by ignoring 
>Dilipan and Poopathi.

No Mr Terrorist, these guys were Sri-Lankan terrorists, and not Indians.
Guys like you who try bring up this thing about brother hood, are plain
bounders and mischief mongers of the worst kind. SL-Tamils are not
Indians, and we Indians - may have sympathised with your cause once upon
a time - feel sorry and pity for the way you terrorists have created
hell on earth.

>make Prabakaran fall at his feet!

That day may not be that not far off!

Regards
chandrasekhar 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Elam in Sl was their cry - now an elam in Canada, one in Europe, one in India
will soon be their cry - Mr M[terrorist] vishnu and his likes are preparing the
ground for it!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mani@sabotage.Berkeley.EDU (Mani Varadarajan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: Tirupati, Madras etc..
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:04:45
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
Reply-To: mani@sprite.Berkeley.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sabotage.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: partha@mse.cse.ogi.edu's message of 26 Aug 92 23:23:09 GMT

In article <41982@ogicse.ogi.edu> partha@mse.cse.ogi.edu (R.
Parthasarathy) writes as to whether Tirupati was originally a
Vishnu or Muruga temple.

I hadn't ever heard of Lord Venkateshvara being considered
Muruga until now; however, there has been a controversy for at
least a thousand years, and probably much longer, as to whether
the vigraham represents Shiva or Vishnu.

Dr. Srinivasan has already referred to the pasuram of Peyazhvar
(c. 6th--7th century C.E.)  which seems to indicate that half of
the image is Shiva and the other half Vishnu.  This is quite a
nice compromise, but historical records dating from the time of
Sri Ramanujacharya (1017--1137) tend to indicate that there was
a wholesale debate as to whether the image was completely Shiva
or completely Vishnu.

According to Sri Vaishnava hagiology, Ramanuja decided the
dispute by placing the ornaments of Vishnu (such as shankham
[conch] and chakram [discus]) as well as the ornaments of Shiva
in front of Venkateshvara and left the image alone overnight.
The next morning, when the priests opened the doors, Lord
Venkateshvara was seen wearing the shankham and chakram; the
story goes that everyone decided that the Lord wore what were
his identifying marks, and therefore showed that he was Vishnu.

At any rate, most of the Azhvars have uniquely identified
Tiruvenkatam as the abode of Narayana/Krishna ; Andal and
Nammalvar are especially emphatic about their love for the
``Lord of Venkatam.''  Does anyone know if their Shaiva
contemporaries, the Nayanmars, mention Venkatam with any
reverence or devotion?

Another interesting issue would be the evolution of the name
Srinivasa as denoting the Lord of Tirumalai, as in the
dhyana-shloka of Ramanuja's Sribhashya.  Srinivasa is
unambiguously Vishnu, so the historicity of the term would be
an interesting fact to add to this discussion.

Yours,
Mani
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: kat@doe.carleton.ca (Kathiravan Krishnamurthi)
Subject: Re: A threat from ...
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:17:44 GMT

In <ck.714834287@rosemary> ck@rosemary.reading.ac.uk (Chandrasekhar Kambhampati) writes:
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Deport all terrorists and their SYmpathisers and funders back to where
>they came from - we have had enough!
>They will now cry for a Canadian Elam, a German Elam, an Elam in India
>given half a chance - the likes of Mr M. [terrorist] Vishnu are
>preparing the grounds for it........
>Deport these guys back to Sri-lanka before it is too late!


   Good guy! He is not an immigration official. 

   Hope you are given the right to deport everybody you don't
like. 
     Luckily God has limited the length of tail (power).

Kathiravan

.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.tamil:1854 alt.culture.tamil:1260
From: ngrjn@milton.u.washington.edu (V Nagarajan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,alt.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: Thi.Jaa's `ammaa vandhaaL'
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:44:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Sep2.164431.9874
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle


	I think thiJA has been tremedously successful with `ammA vandhAL'
	for reasons that Zveilbeil does not mention. First, reading the
	story, one can never figure out where the author stands on all
	this. He recedes to the background and lets the characters speak
	for themselves. There is no moralizing as such. To my limited
	knowledge thiJA was the first writer to accomplish this in tamil.
	(Read also his `marappasu'.) I am not saying that a black and white
	good vs bad approach doesn't work. Deftly handled, this too could
	be successful. Camuthiram (oru kOttukku veLiye), nAnjil nAdan
	(enbilathanai veyil kAyum) and indhirA pArthasArathi (kurudhip
	punal) have shown us how to do just that. But taking a neutral 
	approach and still being able to get the reader totally involved
	is, in my opinion, a far more difficult task. 

	Second, and to me this is more important, the adulteress mother
	still lives with her husband and her children and everyone except
	appu is in on the `secret'. Appu's mother feels a tinge of 
	guilt but no remorse. This is not something a kuraL-thumping 
	moralizer can accept but, as anyone who has grown up in a village 
	in TN would easily recognize, this is portraying society as it is
	and not as we may wish it to be. The supreme irony of our lives is
	that we would rather not examine and discuss taboo subjects like 
	the existence of adultery, incest, homoeroticism and the like and 
	thus help undermine our own "value system".
	
							- Nagarajan

	Note to RJ: Please go ahead with transcribing Sujatha's interview.
	I am pressed for time right now.
From: ketha@ee470.ee.mcgill.ca (KETHEESWARAN/NANNITHAMBY/MR)
Subject: Re: A threat from ...
Organization: EE Lab, McGill University EE Lab, Montreal
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 04:31:35 GMT

In article <9208250449.AA12117@ha06.eng.ua.edu> bkannan@ha06.eng.ua.edu (Balaji Kannan) writes:

>>I think there was a movement called 'Gandheeyam', whose leader was
>>some David(?). Their Gandhi was killed by the Government, while
>>our Gandhi was not killed by the British. So I guess the comparison ends there.
>
>     Not surprising, considering that every Tom, Dick and Harry considers
>     himself a Gandhi [delusions of Gandheur].The Srilankan govt. must have
>     killed him for defiling Gandhi's name more than for anything else;
>     and must have given it an ethnic coating. All these humbugandhis 
>     need to be hunted and exposed. Good that the Srilankan govt. has taken
>     up the cause that even the Indian govt. hesitates to.
>
>     BK

      Good justification for Gandhi followers (Sri lankan govt)    
      Remember our old fox (J.R Jayawardena) called himself as a
      Gandhist while genociding the Tamils in Sri Lanka.( Netters 
      may remember the cartoon appeared in the Aanantha Vikadan
      related to this J.R's statement). Here is one Gandhi follower
      justify another Gandhi follower for his violent suppression
      of the social movement.

      Gandheeyam,s main task was to settle down the economically
      deppressed estatae Tamils in the North-east  province
      (mainly in Vanni) from the Hill country  with help of the 
      International Development Agencies such as NORAD, 
      which SL govt didn't like and they wanted to settle down the
      Sinhalese settlers in the North and East. Gandheeyam in fact
      wasn't involved in any violent activities and allegedly had
      a link with PLOTE. SL govt violently suppressed the Gandheeyam 
      movement and arrested its workers  under the PTA act.
      Its leader Dr.David Rajesundaram was killed by the Sinhalese(UNP)
      thugs in the Velikada jail in 1983 riots.  

      Poor BK may have read this garbage in the THukLak. He once again
      proved his true nature.

      "Cynicism is their way of writing",  I have read this statement
       somewhere.(Of course it is not my statement)

      _Ketha.







-- 
 (Ketha) Nannithamby Ketheeswaran        |   E-Mail :  ketha@honi.ee.mcgill.ca
 Department of Electrical Engineering    |     
 McGill University, Montreal             | 
 Quebec , Canada .                       | 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,alt.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian
From: uds@wsu-eng.eng.wayne.edu (Seetamraju Udaybhaskar)
Subject: Re: Bhagavad Gita on animal sacrifice in yajnas
Reply-To: uds@wsu-eng.eng.wayne.edu (Seetamraju Udaybhaskar)
Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 20:15:19 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.140224.27881@unislc.uucp> sandeep@unislc.uucp (Sandeep Kulkarni) writes:
>From article <1992Sep2.093745.10395@wuecl.wustl.edu>, by sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian):
>>          Bhagavad Gita on animal sacrifice in yajnas
>>         ---------------------------------------------
>But I really haven't seen that depicted in Ramayana etc where they have all
>kinds of yagnas. All the yagnas just show offerings of food , ghee etc.
>Sandeep.

There is not much reference to yagnAs in the preceeding avatars of vishnu
either.  (What is the exact description of what bali did?-- a typical yagna
as we know it, or was it `different'?).

ANyway, animal sacrifices may have been deemed a necessity for the dwapara and
kaliyugas.


Seetamraju Udaya Bhaskar Sarma
(email : seetam @ ece7 . eng . wayne . edu)
From: jawahar@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Jawahar-HP India)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 11:25:19 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Planning of Madras city
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil

In soc.culture.tamil, prem@cs.montana.edu (M.P.Premkumar) writes:

   >The MRTS project was started in 1981 and was supposed to have been completed
   >by 1983-84. It has been dragged on and on for 11 years now and the only 
   >development is the increase in cost due to the delay. Here and there some 
   >structures have been put up and that's all. I hope they finish it soon as that
   >will ease the road traffic inside the heart of the city.

When I was in Madras abt two weeks back, I could see a good progress
in the last one year in the MRTS Project..
The bridge structure has been built from Fort upto TV station in Chepauk. The 
pillars are ready. The Chintadiripet station has come just like the schematic
Vikadan carried in it's cover story. The station is almost ready. The chepauk 
station is also getting ready.
I think the quantum of work in the last year has been very
impressive compared the sluggish pace of work  in the previous years.
The pillars run from opposite Central, to chintadiripet, across MLA hostel,
 TV Station  It will be a very good thing to happen to Madras  and i'ts
commuters.

    >Sincerely yours,
    >M.P.Premkumar

   S Jawahar
From: nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Tamil Instruction in Wash. DC?
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:53:22 GMT
Organization: NRL

Dear netters:

Ever since a wonderful (but too brief) visit to south India a few years back, I have been very
interested in learning Tamil but don't know where to start.  The list of instructional 
texts posted a few weeks back seems very helpful; however, all those books are published in 
Madras and presumably aren't readily available here in the US.  Does anyone in the Washington,
DC/ Maryland area know if these or similar books can be found locally, either in a library or
a bookstore (I already tried the Prince Georges county system, and the UMd McKeldin library)?
What about night/weekend classes?  Please email replies to the address below --- all your
help is greatly appreciated!          
                                             Regards,  Judy

Judy Karpen
karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil          
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: rags@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Raghavan Jayaraman)
Subject: Re: pudhumaiyum piththamum
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:11:15 GMT


I was referring to writers of Pudumaipittan era.

First indirect ref. is in the preface with the subject title of this
article by K.N.Subramaniam. Own words of Pudumaipittan,

"oruvar ennudaiya punaipeyarai vaithu kondu ennai vimarisanam seidAr.
Pittamum idai-idaiyE pudumaiyum kAnapadum enRAR. vAstavam-thAn. Pitta
piraisOOdi peruMAne enra uruvagathil podindulla unmatta vigarpangalai avar
kurripidugirAr endru porul kondu, avvalavum namakku undu ena oppu
kollugiren".

The second ref. is :- I  think I read the comment in the book :-thamzhil
sirugathai: varaLarum valachiyum" by P.G.Sundarrajan and
S.Sivapadhasundaram.Probably I can give detailed ref. later.

But the  person wasn't Kalki.

To write about the war between Manikodi  and Ananthavikatan, I don't think
it  is worth it.

To quote Sujata" Jana-ranjana pattirikaiyil illakiyam padaikka mudiyAdu
endru oru kOOtam vidumurai-ilLAtha mattra elLA NAtkalum kaTthi kondu
irukirathu"

Leeme stop at this time. There is an interesting interview with Sujata
by 'Padigal'. I think Nagarajan once said that he would post. If he is
not, I will post some excerpts.

raghavan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: krishna@iss.nus.sg (Krishnamoorthy Subrahmanyam)
Subject: Salutations to Thiru.Vi.Ka
Originator: krishna@suliman
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 03:01:22 GMT


   26th August - A good day to remember in history of Tamil literature.  Yes, 
   it is a birth day of Thiru.Vi.Kalyanasundharanar (dhiru.vi.ka). Yesterday, 
   26th August, was his 109th birthday. 

   In Tamil,  the  classical  literature consists of Iyal, Isai, NAdagam, and 
   everybody knows it as Muththamiz. The puthinam(Novel) and urainadai(Essay)
   are very new and recent addition to the age old language. 

   As anybody  read of "Pradhaba Mudaliyar Charithram" by Vedanayakam Pillay, 
   a first of it's  kind  in  Tamil, may find bit difficult to read it, as it 
   requires  a word list,  "arunchorporulkal" to understand some of the words 
   and implied one. 

   It is Thiru.Vi.Ka who contributed much and set the pace in written form of 
   present day Tamil, and known very much of his double title works. 

   In his old age, he wrote as many as 14 books, after fallen sick in bed. He 
   hired a person to help him to write,  and dictated all of them, because he 
   unable  to  use  the  hands.  One  of  them  is  "padukkai pithatralkal" /
   "sanmarka neri".

   One  day  Thiru. Mu.Varadarasanar  (Mu. Va)  visited  to  this  perarignar 
   (Thiru.Vi.Ka). We mortals normally enquire "How are you?". But, the two of 
   them are  gifted  sons  of  the  Thamiz,  hence  they have diffent form of 
   "kusalam  visarithal".  Mu.Va  intend  to  ask him that how he is writing? 
   "Eppati eluzithi kondu irukkireerkal?" but  he  knows  the state of Thiru.
   Vi.Ka's  hands,  hence,  he was hesitant  to ask such question.  Rather he 
   asked 'How is your dictation?' "Eppati chollikondu irukkireerkal?"

   Immediately  the  reply  came.   "Maranam",    the  death.   "Maranaththai 
   eluzithkondu  irukkirEn".  I  am  writing  about the death.  See the  word 
   "eluzithkondu", the confidence it carries  with  the "siladai" / "Irattura 
   mozithal".  Ofcoarse he is dictating  his last work named as the same. Ok, 
   at this  point,  I need not to elaborate the scene any more, as every body
   knows how sorrowful it could be. 

   Our  salutations  to Thiru.Vi.Ka, because of such "thavappudalvarkal", the 
   Tamil language lives for ever. 

   -Krishnamoorthy.

   --------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Any  interesting replies to this posting, please cc: to my account. Thanx.



   To non-tamil readers:- The meaning of the Tamil words used in this article:

   Iyal-literature,  Isai-Music,  NAdagam-stage play,  Charithram-biography /
   history,  Muththamiz-Three branches of Tamil, arunchorporulkal - thesaurus
   padukkai - bed,   pithatralkal - blabber,  kusalam - well being / general,  
   visarithal - enquiry,     Maranam - the death,     eluzithkondu - writing,
   siladai-double meaning,  Irattura mozithal-stating one theme and implying 
   the another one.  thavappudalvarkal - gifted son
From: nas_ng@jsc.nasa.gov. (Naga Ganesan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: QUERY on a Tamil poem
Date: 28 Aug 1992 16:44:03 GMT
Reply-To: nas_ng@jsc.nasa.gov.
Organization: G.E. Government Services









Hi Netters,


  This is a question on a nice poem which I read in high school. 
The poem is fatalistic and does not have a happy ending. If someone
can post it or atleast tell me who the author is or in which class
(8th or 9th or .. standard) we studied it, it will be a big help.

  The poem is about a honey bee which gets stuck in a lotus flower.
As the day was over and the sunset has occured, it could
not get out of the flower and sends the night inside. It drinks
all the nectar and dreams of having a nice future once the sun comes.
Unfortunately, a mad rogue elephant gets into the field and destroys
the lotus plant. Along with the withering plant dies a dream.

 I remember the last line of the poem written in the 
'AciriyappA' metre as,
"vIci ERintu veRi koNTatuvE"

Any help?

N. Ganesan
nas_ng@gese03.jsc.nasa.gov
(713)-480-4141(h)
(713)-280-2511(o)
Xref: sparky soc.culture.tamil:1848 alt.culture.tamil:1259 soc.culture.indian:30095