HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kkt@milton.u.washington.edu (Patrick Scheible)
Subject: Re: gun access/control questions
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 00:33:52 GMT

Mark Crispin <mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> writes:

>So the bottom line question is:

>Anti-gun people: if the `gun nuts' took the responsibility for self-policing,
>which includes (1) giving them the authority to do so and (2) no government
>interference, would this be satisfactory?

To me, registration is a side issue.  Most of the people killed by
guns are friends or family of the killer: the killer loses his (or,
rarely, her) temper, and a gun happened to be available.  Or someone
was playing with the gun and didn't know it was loaded.  Simple
registration wouldn't help that at all.

What I'd like to see is all guns stored where it took some time to get
at them, say in a gun club.  I release this makes them useless for
self-defense, and I am certainly not optimistic about it happening
anytime soon.
From: meb4593@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Michael Bain)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: FYI: Auto Insurance Coverage Misconception
Keywords: insurance
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:19:25 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group, Seattle

jeep@tc.fluke.COM (Dale A. Chaudiere) writes:
>
>Now the problem.  Yesterday my wife got back in the car to leave the parking
>lot only to find a shopping cart against the right front fender.  Upon moving
>the cart a 10" vertical .5" deep dent was exposed on the fender.  After the
>typical #$%^& she settled down with the comforting notion that our comprehensive
>coverage would cover the damages. Ha! Ha!

Once upon a time, as we were going to our car in a Safeway parking lot,
we saw that this lady did not notice her loaded shopping cart was
heading towards our car.  Our screams did not cause her to stop it in
time.  When I called her auto insurance the next day (PEMCO), I was
told that they wouldn't cover it since she was not driving her car! 
Hmph, I guess that makes sense now, but I am still leery of parking
lots that are located on a slope.



-- 
Michael Bain                                            (206) 234-6942
Boeing Commercial Airplane Group       meb4593@icdfs.rtn.ca.boeing.com
Seattle, WA 98124
From: prang@ssc-vax.boeing.com (Ron Wanttaja)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: FYI Auto Insurance Coverage Misconception
Date: 25 Jul 92 06:14:48 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Boeing Defense and Space Group, Seattle WA

I, too, called my insurance company (USAA) and got the same answer.  They
say it'd come under collision coverage because that is what it is... a 
collision.  I suppose you could make the same argument if a tree fell on
your car. :-)

Reminds me of a case in Denver where a house was damaged in a heavy
rainstorm when the rain caused a mound of fill dirt to slide into the
house.  The insurance company refused to cover, since the homeowner didn't
have Flood insurance.  The owner screamed to the state insurance
commission, and the company soon relented.

Being a good customer for 18 years should get you some clout, though.  Work
on them.  Threaten to take your business elsewhere.  And if all else fails,
do... after all, outfits like Consumer Reports haven't been too
complimentary of State Farm.

                                          Ron Wanttaja
					  prang@ssc-bee
					  ...rutgers!uw-beaver!ssc-bee!prang
                                          prang@ssc-bee.boeing.com
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: machman@milton.u.washington.edu (The Machman)
Subject: Re: Late Night Coffee in Seattle?
Organization: University of Washington
Distribution: seattle
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 00:04:56 GMT

hochman@milton.u.washington.edu (Daryl Hochman) writes:

>Does anybody know of any places that stay open late serving coffee
>(later than midnight)?

 * Beth's on Aurora near Greenlake

 * the Dog House downtown near the Elephant car wash

 * Stella's Trattoria on 45th near the Metro theater

 * any 7-eleven

-- 
 /'''   The Machman     machman@milton.u.washington.edu    david c carroll
 c-OO                                                                      
    \                     "Big Science.  Hallelujah"
   -                                                                       
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman)
Subject: Re: Travelling armed
Keywords: Guns laws crime murder waiting periods
Organization: Tacoma Screw Products, Inc.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 15:47:49 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.235329.425@apex.com> chuckh@apex.com (Chuck Huffington) writes:
>
>What drugs do you want to legalize?
>Will they all be tested for safety?
>Who will make them?
>Who will pay for product liability?
>How do you handle new drugs?
>What benefit to the user do they offer?
>
For a start, we can make it legal for a person to grow marijuana
for their own consumption (the same as its legal to make beer and
wine now).  The idea that a person can have his/her home and worldly
possessions confiscated and their lives ruined simply because there
is a plant growing on their property is an obscenity.

>Don't we already have enough trouble with Alcohol without adding more
>choices?

We have less trouble with alcohol now than we had during prohibition.

-- 
David Breneman     Sys Admin, Tacoma Screw Products, Inc. |  ____  ____  ____
dcb@tacoma.uucp           |   SCREWIE the TSP CLOWN sez-  |   /   /___  /___/ 
 ..!uunet!tacoma!dcb      |  "Nylok lock nuts lose their  |  /   ____/ / 
CompuServe: 75760,1232    | binding strength after 1 use!"|
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: jeep@tc.fluke.COM (Dale A. Chaudiere)
Subject: FYI: Auto Insurance Coverage Misconception
Keywords: insurance
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Distribution: seattle
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 14:38:03 GMT

My wife and I drive older restored automobiles so for the last 18 yrs. we
have carried only liability, personal injury, uninsured/underinsured,
comprehensive, and towing on our cars.  We both have perfect driving records
and do not carry collision because we thought it was soley for covering
damages to our car which were OUR fault (i.e. we caused the accident).

Now the problem.  Yesterday my wife got back in the car to leave the parking
lot only to find a shopping cart against the right front fender.  Upon moving
the cart a 10" vertical .5" deep dent was exposed on the fender.  After the
typical #$%^& she settled down with the comforting notion that our comprehensive
coverage would cover the damages. Ha! Ha!

A quick call to State Farm shattered that notion.  The adjuster stated, and I
quote, "The shopping cart has wheels, thereby it rolled to cause the collision,
so you must carry collision to be covered".  In general comprehensive is for
fire, theft, vandalism, and/or falling objects.  Rolling objects are covered
by collision.  This includes shopping carts, tires, skateboards, wind blown
garbage cans, baseballs (grounders, a fly ball is covered by comprehensive),
etc.

Well this blew me away.  I know many people that do not carry collision
coverage on older cars with the belief that it is only to pay for damages
for which they are directly responsible.

Conclusion: State Farm does not offer coverage that fully protects you for
damages caused by others without paying for collision.

P.S. They claim this is an industry standard.

Any comments?  How about your insurance company?
-- 
jeep@tc.fluke.COM           Dale Chaudiere                (206) 356-5894
         .                  John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc.
        /|_\_.              P.O. Box 9090, M/S 239E
       'o~~~o`              Everett, WA 98206 USA 
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: mtakacs@milton.u.washington.edu (Tak)
Subject: You can dogfight in the skies!
Summary: Wanna fly a real plane and dogfight?
Keywords: dogfight wwII expensive recreation fun 
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 09:12:17 GMT

That's right!

   I caught the end of a Seattle Tonight show (or some such) last
night, (Wed) and they showed some footage of the two hosts flying what looked,
at least to my untrained eye, like WWII airplanes.  Evidently there is 
a group in town for about three weeks that will take people up and 
let them "dogfight" in the air, with the customer having complete
control over the plane and the co-pilots staying out of the picture 
unless needed.  I did catch the phone number they flashed, I think 
it was 448-3845 for more information.  (I hope... ) The cost for this 
experience: $600 for 6 dogfights.
   Well, so much for _my_ chance at flying a real plane and having a 
dogfight in the skies.  Anyone got any spare change lying around...?


   I wish I may, I wish I might, dogfight in the skies tonight,
                     Tak

--------------------------------------------------------
Mark Takacs
mtakacs@u.washington.edu
University of Washington
"I only dream in infrared" - mangled Queensryche quote
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: ngrjn@milton.u.washington.edu (V Nagarajan)
Subject: Steepest street in  Seattle?
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: seattle
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 16:40:20 GMT

	If you are inspired by the Olympic Games to do something really
	atheletic, try bicycling up 4th Ave N. from the Fremont bridge.
	The altitude gain is something like 300 feet within 10 blocks.
	It is the quickest way to get to the top of Queen Anne Hill. Even
	running up the hill would be herculean task in my opinion.
	Be forwarned tho that the initial stretch from Dexter to Newell St.
	(the steepest part) is one way so riding up the hill may be illegal.

								- Nagarajan


Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: fetrow@biostat.washington.edu (David Fetrow)
Subject: Re: Information about buying a house
Keywords: Buyers' Agent
Organization: Biostatistics, University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 01:37:53 GMT

 Just so we're all clear on this; my limited understanding goes like this.

 A Buyers Agent is usually paid by the seller, like a regular agent, but works
for (and has a legal responsibility to) the buyer. Under the usual arrangement
both the agents are working for the seller and are required to do the best
they can for the seller.

 This is why a lot of us look for buyers agents. They are paid on the same
scale (commission) but you can usually throw in a rider so they get, say, 5%
of the money they save you in negotiating the price DOWN and they have a legal
responsibility to work for the buyer.

 In particular; you can tell a buyers agent a secret that affects how much you
are willing to pay and know they aren't legally obligated to tell the seller
all about it.

 In practice you can have good or bad experience under either scheme but,
as a first time buyer and economic pinhead, it seemed a good idea to have
someone who is supposed to be in my corner. I even got my moneys worth 
(although writing that check was painful!). I also took a couple Real
Estate classes...and that is a REAL good idea.

 The downside is some sellers object to paying buyers agents but I didn't
have a problem with that (they found the buyer and that was good enough).

 For the record: I'm just a reasonably happy client who recently bought a
house through a buyers agent.

-- 
 - dave fetrow-					fetrow@biostat.washington.edu

   "A few areas of engineering remain "black arts": acoustics, LF antenna
    design, and high performance UNIX I/O."  -Dave Taber
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: chuckh@apex.com (Chuck Huffington)
Subject: Re: Travelling armed
Keywords: Guns laws crime murder waiting periods
Organization: Apex Computer Company
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 23:53:29 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.181257.4160@eskimo.celestial.com> alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com (David Butler) writes:
>In article <1992Jul27.160346.29763@apex.com> chuckh@apex.com (Chuck Huffington) writes:
>
>>Do you really believe that the people making the huge profits selling illegal
>>drugs will just go away?  If the government is selling legal drugs
>>I would expect the gangs to sell something "better".  You don't want that
>>govt shit, this stuffs a lot better.
>
>    You can't be serious!  If drugs were sold legally (I envision stores
>similar to the Washington state liquor stores) those buying would know
>they could get clean stuff from the Govt. and the Govt. would be able to
>equal or even undercut illegal prices.  The illegal drug trade would
>totally dry up.
>    Look at alcohol.  Sure there are still people making moonshine but
>how much is available and how many people would buy it?  During
>prohibition it financed gangs, with the associated gang violence and
>drive by shootings, made poor people rich quick, and was produced in
>quantities making it an industry in the hundreds of millions of
>dollars.  Now it is hard to make a living off of moonshine and few 
>people are foolish enough to risk the penalties in producing it.

What drugs do you want to legalize?
Will they all be tested for safety?
Who will make them?
Who will pay for product liability?
How do you handle new drugs?
What benefit to the user do they offer?

Don't we already have enough trouble with Alcohol without adding more
choices?
From: das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Must See's in Seattle, Where?
Keywords: touring
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:43:27 GMT
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA

In article <2843@voodoo.UUCP> das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz) writes:
>
>
>Mount Rainier:  a visit to Paradise.  Can easily be done in a day, and there
>a paved (argh) trails for easy walks from the Paradise Lodge.
         ^^^^^

It has been pointed out to me that there are legitimate reasons for having
paved trails (such as for people in wheelchairs and others who are not
physically able to negotiate unpaved trails) so I hereby retract my
'argh' and apologize to anyone who I may have offended.

Debbie Schwartz // das@voodoo.boeing.com
From: dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman)
Subject: Government grants privileges? (was: Re: DWI)
Organization: Tacoma Screw Products, Inc.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 16:24:31 GMT

In article <69020007@misty.boeing.com> hochberg@misty.boeing.com (michael hochberg) writes:
>Driving is a priveledge we earn by taking a test and drivers education
>classes.  It is not a right.      
>
>The government can restrict priveledges it gives, such as imposing the DWI
>laws on drivers.
>
I have often wondered where this "driving is a privilege" line originally
came from.  Probably some state's DMV.  Anyway, I'm afraid I can't
disagree more, and all the Driver's Ed manuals in the world won't
change my mind.  Our country is supposed to be founded of the principle
that the *people* grant the *government* the *privilege* of power over
us in exchange for certain protections the government gives in return;
such as providing police to protect our natural rights from those who
would defraud or endanger us, defense from foreign and domestic forces
which would seek to oppress us, a court system for arbitrating
disputes, a currency to facilitate trade, etc.  Now, good arguments can
and have been made for a greater role for government than this in the
lives of people, and many benefits as well as penalties derive from
this.  However, nowhere in the writings of our founders, and nowhere
in any legal treatises at any time prior to the 20th century is there
any credible notion in American political thought that the government
can or should have any powers derived from Divine Right (that is, powers
above those which it is the will of the people governed to grant it), or
that is should be able to dispense or withhold these munificencies
through the work of non-elected officials.  This whole notion of
governemnt having a Greater Power which is *not* derived from the people
is the gist of what our founders fought against in the revolutionary
war.  

I do not recognize the governemnt's right to grant privileges to
any one for any purpose.  It is antithetical to our whole system
of legal and moral values. 

I pay taxes to support the building and maintenance of roads.  
Therefore I have a right to drive on them.  If I drive in a dangerous
manner, the government is authorized by my fellow citizens to
remove the menace that I cause.  (The same is true of the "shouting
`fire' in a crowded theater" scenario in regards to free speech.)
But, driving is still a right that I have, to exercise as I see fit,
until such time as I violate the rights of others with my exercise
of it.

In light of these comments, I pose two talking points:

1) If cars had been around in the 18th century, our right to own
   them would be guaranteed by the Constitution.

2) If cars had not appeared until after world war II, their private
   ownership would be illegal.

Well?

-- 
David Breneman     Sys Admin, Tacoma Screw Products, Inc. |  ____  ____  ____
dcb@tacoma.uucp           |   SCREWIE the TSP CLOWN sez-  |   /   /___  /___/ 
 ..!uunet!tacoma!dcb      |  "Nylok lock nuts lose their  |  /   ____/ / 
CompuServe: 75760,1232    | binding strength after 1 use!"|
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: chuckh@apex.com (Chuck Huffington)
Subject: Re: Travelling armed
Keywords: Guns laws crime murder waiting periods
Organization: Apex Computer Company
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 23:29:37 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.163438.2586@eskimo.celestial.com> kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum) writes:
>In article <1992Jul27.155053.29511@apex.com> chuckh@apex.com (Chuck Huffington) writes:
>[...]
>>There are a lot of places where informal practice happens.
>>I won't list them, none are close,  I feel they are used by 
>>too many irresponsible people to be safe.
>[...]
>If they are unsafe people ought to know about them, so they know what to
>avoid.
If you find what looks like a good place to shoot, but it's full
of shot up appliances, broken beer bottles, and the like you have found
one of them.  Old gravel pits are popular.

I never use such ranges unless I happen to find one that no one else
is using.  Since the travel time is generally over 1 hour it is not
worth  even trying.

I still won't list them, because it is difficult.  They don't have names,
the roads don't have names.  They are generally on Forest Service roads.
Some nice ones can be found near North Bend and off Highway 2
east of Monroe.  Or they would be nice if the idiots would stay away.
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman)
Subject: Re: DWI
Organization: Tacoma Screw Products, Inc.
Distribution: seattle
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 22:39:36 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.074217.7195@quick.com> srg@quick.com (Spencer Garrett) writes:
>
>The thing that really pisses me off about the "open container"
>laws is that I can end up being convicted of an alcohol-related
>(ie - extremely serious) driving offense in spite of the fact
>that *I don't drink*. Never have, never will.  Probably can't.  But
>even proving that fact in court makes no difference.  The law says
>driving with an open container is a form of DWI.  Period.

Don't forget the increase in roadside litter.  A lot more people are
throwing that empty "road beer" out the window rather than risk
getting caught with it in the car.

>                                                           Because of
>my non-drinking status I often end up as the "designated driver"
>for my friends, but if one of them opens a container in the car
>over my objections (this has happened) and we get caught (this
>has not) then *I* can spend a year in the slammer.  I guess they
>expect me to shoot my passengers if they try to open a beer while
>I'm driving.  :-(

And there's the fact that technically, taking empty beer cans and bottles
to a recycling center is a violation of the open container law.  A friend
of mine who is a Sheriff's Deputy says that they have been instructed
to "look the other way" when they see a vehicle which is "apparently"
transporting bottles and cans to a recycling center or dump.

-- 
David Breneman     Sys Admin, Tacoma Screw Products, Inc. |  ____  ____  ____
dcb@tacoma.uucp           |   SCREWIE the TSP CLOWN sez-  |   /   /___  /___/ 
 ..!uunet!tacoma!dcb      |  "Nylok lock nuts lose their  |  /   ____/ / 
CompuServe: 75760,1232    | binding strength after 1 use!"|
Newsgroups: wi.general
From: bill@dewey.edsci.wisc.edu (Bill Roth)
Subject: Clinton's positions on Education,Crime and Health on FTP
Reply-To: bill@dewey.edsci.wisc.edu
Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 19:33:26 GMT

If you would like the Education,Crime and Health positions of the  
Clinton campaign, you can get them from pslu1.psl.wisc.edu  
(128.104.200.15) in /pub/politics/clinton.

Bill Roth
Newsgroups: wi.general
From: bill@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu (Bill Roth)
Subject: Free voter information
Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, University of Wisconsin
Distribution: wi
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 15:08:40 GMT


There is a lot for FREE PUBLIC information about elected officials and
candidates for the various fedral races.

Information on voting records, funding, etc., can be obtained from 
PROJECT VOTE SMART at 800-786-6885.

A detailed listing of contributors can be obtained from the
FEDRAL ELECTIONS COMMISSION. Call 800-424-9530, and ask for the
Public Disclosure Department.

-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Roth,  University of Wisconsin Physical Sciences Laboratory
Internet:bill@psl.wisc.edu. NeXTMAIL blithely accepted. 608-873-6651
Newsgroups: wi.forsale
From: whir@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Rick Allard)
Subject: dehumidifier and frequency counter
Organization: nil
Distribution: wi
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 17:02:45 GMT


dehumdifier and frequency counter for sale

write or call for details, 414 263-0650





-- 
      W  e     a  r  e     i  n     o  p  e  n     c  i  r  c  u  i  t  s
The signal, where the message is sent, plays equally important role as
the signal, where message is not sent [sic].  --Nam June Paik quoting
Norbert Wiener as a pre-echo to McLuhan.          temp .sig; new in works
Newsgroups: wi.forsale
From: boottrax@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Boot Trax)
Subject: AMIGA 2000
Originator: boottrax@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Basement Software Products
Distribution: wi
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 03:54:47 GMT


                        AMIGA 2000 Super System


        2 3.5 inch floppies
        Fat Agnus
        New Paul
        4 megs ram , 1 meg chip
        Microbotics 8-up SIMM board
        Cltd Kronos Controller - High Speed - Autoboot
        70 meg SCSI drive
        ECE MIDI interface  w/ IN OUT THRU
	1084s Stereo RGB monitor

        Commodore Hardware refernce manuals
        Much MIDI software
        Loads of games
        Lots of graphics applications
        Hard drive loaded with software

        Joystick, keyboard & mouse & TONS of books and manuals
        Myriad of disks included

        Mainly used for MIDI studio work.

                                MUST SELL
                                $1300.00

        Contact me at the above address.


-- 
(( boottrax@csd4.csd.uwm.edu ))    My opinions are copyrighted to myself     ))
 )) "Undermine their pompous authority, reject their moral standards, make  ((
(( anarchy and disruption you trademarks, cause as much chaos & disruption   ))
 )) as possible, but don't le tthem take you alive"       - Sid Vicious     ((
From: dohm@nicmad.uucp (Nathan Dohm (Biomed Engineering))
Newsgroups: wi.forsale
Subject: Drum Set For Sale
Date: 21 Jul 92 03:29:29 GMT
Organization: Nicolet Instrument Corp.


Posted for a friend:

  --- FOR SALE ---

10 piece Pearl drum set, white.

     - 3 toms
     - 3 rototoms
     - snare drum
     - bass drum
     - cymbals
     - high hat

     $400/best offer

Includes throne and as many drum sticks as you can carry.

Excellent condition: less than 20 hours playing time.
He is selling it because he doesn't use it much and he needs the money.

Contact Ryan at 833-1340 (home)
                833-1735 (work)

(Or leave e-mail to nicmad!dohm%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu)