From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Subject: Re: stupid consumers
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: ba
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 04:46:35 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.012836.10034@leland.Stanford.EDU> eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) writes:

>>"Attacked from across the pacific [sic]"  "dumb americans [sic] falling
>>for it."  I suspect there's an editor's job at the SF Chronicle waiting
>>for you.
>>
>>Exactly how are we being attacked?  By being offered superior goods of
>>higher quality than what's domestically available at competitive prices?
>>There exists an element of competition in any non-monolopolistic free
>>market economy (don't they talk about that at Stanford?); Nissan is
>>attacking Ford in much the way that Ford is attacking GM.

>If you read the examp[le I posted, you might not have so many questions.
>FAIR competition is welcome. non-FREE enterprise is not welcome. 
>Many Jap companies have been Undercutting the US market, as I showed
>one example of. I like free trade, if it's fair- then the textbook
>theory works.

This is ethnocentric rhetoric.  What you consider unfair may simply
be sound, aggresive business to others.  There are no rules but what
is mutually agreed upon.

>>As far as consumers being dumb, your ignorance is quite visible on this
>>one.  The "dumb" consumers were the ones whose lax standards in the '50s
>>and '60s allowed their domestic suppliers to survive, indeed flourish,
>>by making shoddy, unimaginative goods that weren't built to last.  This
>>isn't just the carmakers, either -- most US manufacturers have historically
>>been driven by bean counters who seized upon the assembly line as a way
>>to maximize throughput, with quality a secondary consideration.

>and DUMB (which you seem to understand quite well :^) is the 80's DRAM
>consumer that I stated in my origional post.  Do you agree that DRAM
>consumers were "taken for a ride"? Why not stick to that issue?

I don't stick to that issue because you take an isolated incident and
try to trump it into an international scandal.  What if the Koreans
took an attitude similar to yours regarding the US companies' bribery
of some of their top officials?

The answer is not to look for excuses to economically isolate ourselves.

>>>If you don't like this country- leave- you're not wanted. 

>>Actually, it's ignorant jerks like you who aren't wanted.  But I won't
>>share in your arrogance to demand that you leave.

>If you can't beat 'em, attact 'em: you'd do well in japanese business.

You're so clueless that your attempt at an insult is actually a
compliment.  Given your propensity to look for excuses rather than
engage in economic competition, I somehow doubt you'll do well in
business, whether Japanese, American, or Martian.

>>>And if you don't like our products, then go work in a country
>>>that you think is better. 

>>I hate to burst your bubble, but you are reciting the EXACT same 
>>mentality that pervaded Detroit 25 years ago.  Upper management would
>>not tolerate any notion that they weren't king of the hill, or that
>>a bit of introspection might be useful.  "Loss of market share?  What
>>are you talking about?!  I drove for twenty minutes through downtown
>>Detroit just this morning and didn't see a single VW!  Oh, in California?
>>They're a bunch of flakes anyway; I wouldn't worry about them."
>>
>>And since you haven't figured it out on your own, let me tip you off
>>on the *real* difference between the Japanese consumer companies and
>>their US counterparts:  the Japanese are much, much more market-driven.
>>In simpler terms, they ask us what we want and then find a way to give
>>it to us.  US manufacturers have only recently discovered the value of
>>this (though there are notable exceptions like P&G, and look at their
>>success).

>Yeah, you bought it hook line and sinker, didn't you. American business
>is out to get you, right? 

What are you babbling about?  The problem with most American businesses
isn't conspiracy, and I never implied that.  The problem is incompetance,
lack of originality, and some very outmoded ideas with respect to the
customer and the laborer.

You somehow seem to have developed an allegiance with US business, and
a hostility to the Japanese.  I wonder how you'll feel when you're
victimized by shoddy US manufacturing quality, and your attempts at
recourse are met with institutionalized mechanisms to blunt your
attempts at satisfaction.  Or how you'll feel when you get laid off
to meet some mogul's quarterly goal.

Think hard about who really has taken your interests to heart.

>>Is everyone at Stanford like you?

>Since we're into PERSONAL attacks here:
>Yeah, they're ALL smarter than you!    :^)

Well, I definitely know of one who isn't (no smiley needed).


-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
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