HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jjm+@andrew.cmu.edu (James J. Murawski)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Kiss the playoffs goodbye
Date: 9 Apr 92 11:57:03 GMT
	<ARBOGASTW.54@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu>
Distribution: na
Organization: Administrative Systems, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


>In article <1992Apr8.052426.8099@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>
gld@cunixb.cc.columbia
>.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
>After a long lead-in on WFAN all-sports about the death of the season
>the first caller says ... "How about those Yankees, winning the first
>game of the season?" -- that's when I turned off the radio and felt
>like throwing up.  I turned it on again and there's another guy, and
>they're talking about the Mets.

Unfortunately, Gary, the other five hockey fans in New York must not listen
to WFAN radio.  8-) 8-)

====================================================================
    Jim Murawski
    Sr. Data Base Analyst               (412) 268-2650  [office]
    Administrative Systems              (412) 268-6868  [fax]
    Carnegie Mellon University          jjm+@andrew.cmu.edu
    4910 Forbes Avenue                  Office: UCC 155
    Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Kiss the playoffs goodbye
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 14:55:21 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.025044.11515@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> seth@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (peter.r.clark..jr) writes:
>
>Until a couple days ago I was completely with the players. Now, however,
>my feeling is that they're asking too much too quickly. Whether the deal
>is fair or not, it is not IMHO reasonable to expect the league to make
>this big of a change this quickly. The players should accept a short term
>deal that adresses most of the important issues and work out the rest
>in the meantime. They've made their point by now. They can talk all they
>want. This strike isn't about money any more. It can't be.
>

Both sides are making some ridiculous demands...the owners are perhaps
more responsible, but there is now blame enough for both sides for presenting
positions based on the parachial interests of their own side without
considering the interests of the other.

The owners will probably win the war with the players and bust the
union, but hockey will not win...and it may take a long time to
for the game to recover.

Gerald
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: mpreslar@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Martin Preslar)
Subject: Strike Over! (OFFICIAL)
Organization: UIUC Department of Psychology
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 04:57:03 GMT

This just in from ESPN (They actually broke into a BASEBALL GAME
to anounce this and show a portion of a press conference!)

The NHL Strike is over!  

The regular season resumes on Sunday, with the Playoffs starting next
Weekend!!!!!

Looks like the Red Wings will have a chance to win the Cup this year 
after all :-) !!!!!!

Marty
Go Wings!!!!!!

Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: djung@fraser.sfu.ca (Derek Shew Lon Jung)
Subject: Re: I'm lost. 
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 17:59:41 GMT

ash@sumex-aim.stanford.edu (David Ash) writes:

>So both sides have a *lot* to lose as far as I can see.  Therefore I'm still
>predicting something will happen before 3 pm tomorrow.  If I'm wrong and
>nothing happens other than the season being cancelled, I would agree that
>there is something strange going on that we don't know about?

Well, with all the recent talk about 'hidden agendas' and so forth, as a
fan, I'm worried.  I guess that, since we aren't parties to the dispute,
there's no way we should expect them to reveal everything to us.  However,
as a paying customer and a loyal hockey fan, it's extremely frustrating to
know that neither the owners nor the players really give a damn for the
fans.  I think that's what really sucks about the whole situation, that
we have to come to this realization.  I guess I'm just fermenting grape
juice (whining)....So shoot me.

As for something happening before 3pm (EDT, noon PDT) today, I'm not
holding my breath.  I was optimistic about April 1st, about last weekend,
and about the owners' (and players') "final" offers.  I've run out of
optimism.  (And I'm usually VERY optimistic....You have to be, to have
been a Canucks' fan for so long!  :-)


Derek Jung
I'net:  djung@sfu.ca
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Gary's spewing (was Re: Sherri's Spewing (WAS: Re: Another Lindros))
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:41:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: optima.14907
Distribution: na
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Apr5.191414.13677@Princeton.EDU>, fafuria@der.Princeton.EDU (Frederick A. Furia) writes:
> In article <1992Apr2.201227.1@sask.usask.ca> chin@sask.usask.ca (Glenn Chin) writes:
> >> In article <1992Mar31.134808.15002@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>, migod@turing.toronto.edu (Mike Godfrey) writes:
> >>> Just as an FYI:  Canadian universities do not have sports scholarships 
> >>> like US ones do.  You have to be admitted on your academic record.
> >Where did Mike challenge the quality of American universities?  Mike made a
> >statement that US universities offer sports scholarships, and their Canadian
> >counterparts don't.
> >> or are we to really believe that Canada or say some European country has a
> >> superior system?
> >> If in fact, anyone truly believes that I'd love to hear the justification
> >> for it - but perhaps a different group would be appropriate...
> >We would like to know who made that superiority claim in rec.sport.hockey.
> 
> It looks to me like Mike Godfrey is the one who implied it.  Unless the
> replying system put the wrong name in front of his claim.
> Fred




Actually, nobody said it - as I tried to make clear in my response to Mike, I
am hyper-sensitive of late to US bashing - I think my original posting
spoke for itself - unfortunately Glenn (who I assume is the Pope since he
speaks as "we") must have a bug up his ass and decided to rant a bit....


			gln
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: smorris@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Ronald Morris (SVER))
Subject: Re: AN ODE TO SHERRI
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date:  9 Apr 1992 14:26 EDT  

Somebody wrote some poem and then:
> 
>	H H  U U  GGG  !!
>	H H  U U  G    !!
>	HHH  U U  G G  !!
>	H H  U U  G G  
>	H H  UUU  GGG  !!
> 
In addition, someone called Fluffy the Wonder Bunny had something to
do with this.  So this is what the strike has wrought.  What the hell
is going on here?!?  This is not rec.sport.warm.mushy.fuzzies.  This
is rec.sport.HOCKEY!  We don't *HUG*.  Nor do we refer to ourselves
as "Fluffy".  We rarely use words with more than two sylables (and
when we do, we spell wrong), much less write poems!  These guys should
have to watch "Slapshot" about 250 times and find out what Hockey is
all about.

Hey, Sherri is cool.  I don't agree with a lot of her opinions, but
she's entitled to them.  But she is a PENGUINS fan.  Therefore, I am
sending Sherri a great big *CROSS CHECK*, and urge others to do the same.

Ron
From: shayne@cs.mcgill.ca (Lydia MANCINI)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:14:49 GMT
Organization: SOCS, McGill University, Montreal, Canada

In article <1992Apr14.003842.29542@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> ash@sumex-aim.stanford.edu (David Ash) writes:
>Well, everything seems to be back to normal in the NHL:  the Leafs were
>eliminated from playoff contention last night.  If the NHL is in financial
>difficulty, I wonder if some of this can be attributed to the Leafs sorry
>state over the last many years.  Naturally I'd come to this conclusion being
>a Leafs fan :-) but seriously the core of support for hockey is in Canada
>and Ontario is Canada's largest province, so if Ontario's representative
>in the NHL is a perennially lacklustre entry, the NHL is going to lose one-
>third of its potential core of fans.
>

Just because people 'live' or are 'born' in and area doesn't mean they have
to support that team. Do you mean to tell me that every single solitary fan
in Ontario supports the Leafs? That's pretty hard to believe.

Why not make LA our NY teams win the Cup year after year then? Imagine the
number of hockey fans the NHL would have.

>I'm not expecting the Leafs to win the Cup every year or anything, but they
>should at least be competitive on a regular basis.  There's something wrong
>when the province which has given the NHL many great players including the
>Great One himself can't even make the playoffs year after year.  I'm too young
>to even remember the Leafs Cup victory in 1967, but I do know that the
>standard I've come to expect as minimal Leafs performance has declined over
>the years from "usually they'll get to the 2nd round of the playoffs" to "well
>at least they'll do better than the Sharks (but I wouldn't bet the store on
>it)"!
>

You can blame the Leafs management for their 'lackluster play', not the NHL. 
Why have the Habs and Bruins remained competitive? 

>Well, we can at least be pleased that the Leafs have a long tradition of
>being the #1 NHL team from Ontario.  Like all good things, this will come to
>an end next year...
>
>GO BLUE JAYS!!!

Ah Yes, a true Leafs fans :-)

>David W. Ash


-- 
  Lydia Mancini | shayne@cs.mcgill.ca | McGill University | Montreal, Canada
 (==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)
 "I don't want to be coach of the year, just coach for the year" -- Pat Burns
 (I always liked that comment)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: rickc@wrigley.corp.sgi.com (Richard Casares)
Subject: Re: So long, Stanley Cup playoffs
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 23:05:18 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.185505.15191@wpi.WPI.EDU>, carrie@wpi.WPI.EDU (Carrie A Ayers) writes:
||> I'm sorry you feel this way.  Minor league hockey is just as exciting 
|> as NHL hockey.  As an AHL fan, I can say I've seen games that are much
|> more exciting than some NHL games I've seen.  I know of a few AHL teams
|> that could play any NHL team anyday and win.  And considering a lot of
|> these minor league players are the future of the NHL teams, seems silly
|> that you wouldn't be willing to pay to see them now, but will later when
|> someone else thinks they are good enough for you to watch.  

	You mean to tell me that Pat Faloon was nearly as
good last year as he's been this year?   I don't believe it for a second!
=)

-- 
+========================================================================+
| Rick Casares					Silicon Graphics	 |	
| cubfan@wrigley.corp.sgi.com			2011 N. Shoreline Blvd   |
| "Just wait till next year."                 	Mountain View, CA 94039  |
+========================================================================+
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: ab870@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Rickin)
Subject: Re: No Anti-trust protection.. Big problem!
Reply-To: ab870@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Rickin)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 20:03:49 GMT


In a previous article, snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) says:
>The courts have not however extended this anti-trust exemption to any other
>sport.  

Then how do the NBA, NHL, and NFL exist?
-- 
ab870@cleveland.freenet.edu (Eric Rickin) or bu072@gnh-bauhaus.cts.com
Slap and Tickle... The Canadian National Sport
University of Michigan: Class of 1996
From: gerry@SKATTER.USASK.CA (Gerry Gryschuk)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re:Pens, Martha meet to discuss strike
Date: 10 Apr 92 01:12:18 GMT


In article <1992Apr09.161057.30551@cs.cmu.edu> lli+@cs.cmu.edu (Lori Iannamico) writes:
>Martha can handle the media quite well.  And he has the presidental "look".
>Meaning he's tall (Don't laugh, it's been proven that height can influence
         ^^^^^^^^^
>a person's decision when voting), he looks intelligent and in control, and he's
>attractive. Apperances are half the battle. You look good, people think you
>are good.

Oh so this is why I've been thinking that Ken Dryden would make a good league
President.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Gerry Gryschuk(gerry@skatter.usask.ca)
"Certainly the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you; if you
don't bet, you can't win."
			-Lazarus Long(R.A.Heinlein)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: ARBOGASTW@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu (Warren Arbogast)
Subject: Re: What the world needs now is an AMERICAN TV CONTRACT.
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 21:21:11 GMT

In article <allan.703402955@so-heart-rv> allan@cs.UAlberta.CA (Allan Sullivan) writes:
>ARBOGASTW@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu (Warren Arbogast) writes:


>There are a few holes in your argument:

>I think hockey players are a LITTLE smarter than that. Salary
>rivalries between fellow hockey players DOES play a role in escalating
>salaries, but hockey players are smart enough to know that they
>could never be paid as much as football or baseball players, because
>of the smaller seating capacities.

>As for basketball, the NBA has a salary cap, and revenue sharing
>between players and owners. (Thats probably the way the NHL should
>go.)

>As for baseball, the big television contract helped lead to a big
>increase in player salaries. Soon the contract will expire, and the
>networks will likely pay a lot less for broadcasting rights. So teams
>will be left with large payrolls, and less money. So what is the
>future of baseball on TV? You got it... PAY PER VIEW!

>Welcome to the world of American TV.
> 
You're right, I left some holes and you filled them well. 

I agree the NHL should probably go salary cap, revenue sharing, etc. 

I also agree that baseball will go pay-per-view.  I believe the NHL may even 
go this way before baseball does.  Baseball owners aren't that much smarter 
than hockey owners and some of them actually think the big TV dollars will 
be there again.

As I've said in the past, a large TV contract is not a terrible thing.  It 
can provide the dollars both players and owners want.  
Mismanagement and inflated expectations vis-a-vis large TV 
contracts is the problem.

Personally, I don't mind the idea of pay-per-view.  
I'm a Caps fan, but I'd love to see some Oilers-LA games (and some other 
matchups), but now I have no chance.

Warren
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: dstein@luna.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Subject: Re: Yet another debate over the draft (was Re: Another Lindros)
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 12:26:44 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.161133.12934@ericsson.se> etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se (Staffan Axelsson) writes:
>For example: One of my favourite teams, Bjorkloven, won the Swedish
>championships in '87. 2 years after that they had lost 22 of the players
>that won the gold in '87. Naturally, the team wasn't competitive enough
>and fell down to division1. They have been in division1 ever since.
>Now they are developing their own talent simply because they have no 
>money to buy quality players. What happens when they develope a top
>player? Yes, teams from Elitserien come and buy this particular player
>and the team loses skill once again. This way, it's very hard for teams to
>get up in the top league unless you have a lot of money.

   Why didn't Bjorkloven get enough money from the transfers to keep
competetive?

   I think that, from a young talented player _and_ the clubs' perspective, 
the best agreement would be one specifying that the player can leave the
club anytime during the transfer periods, but that the club will recieve
X% of the player's hockey salary for the next Y years -- of course, this
money don't have to come directly from the player, but from the other club
which buys the player.

   As a player, I would have no problem with such an agreement, especially
if the club helps me when I'm young, and especially if I know that the money 
will go to the development of new players.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: S1.JON@isumvs.iastate.edu (Jon Wells)
Subject: Re: NCAA Officiating
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 16:35:19 GMT


Sure, let's turn college hockey into the pre-1980's NHL with a brawl a
period and the officials needing body armor just to get to the locker
room. How wonderful. That is certainly the way to encourage good officials
to try the college game. Call him a name, perhaps. Swing a stick at him,
no way!

Try swinging a stick or throwing a punch at a policeman and see what happens...
the ref is hockey's equivalent of a policeman (or policewoman, if you prefer).
The UW players have every right to say he called a lousy game. That's their
opinion. Saying is one thing, brandishing sticks is another. You can't
brandish a stick against a player, so why should you be able to do so against
an official?

The ref MAY have called a poor game in some people's opinions. It is illegal
to swing a stick at a player who can fight back, why should it be legal to do
so against an official, who can't fight back?

Amen to that!

Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: allan@cs.UAlberta.CA (Allan Sullivan)
Subject: Re: Playoff Traditions
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 04:38:43 GMT

bgray@ugly.UVic.CA (Bob  Gray) writes:

>  Here in Vancouver, we've got the fun tradition of waving our white towels in
>the few years that we've made the playoffs since 1982.  What are the other
>interesting traditions in other NHL cities, ie. Vancouver's white towels, 
>Calgary's sea of red, etc  (hockey only - I don't need to hear about the 
>Steeler's Terrible towels)

This is a little off the mark, but in Detroit, doesn't someone throw
a squid or an octopus on the ice during the playoffs? (I've read
about that happening, and I've even seen it happen last year.)

An old friend of mine also said that in Philly people used to
throw rubber chickens on the ice. (Of course, that could just
be folklore.)
From: jwh@sei.cmu.edu (John Huber)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: I need my fix!
Date: 13 Apr 92 19:02:10 GMT
Organization: The Software Engineering Institute


In article <1992Apr10.180023.102401@cs.cmu.edu>, lli+@cs.cmu.edu (Lori Iannamico) writes:
|> I'm taking the "out of sight, out of mind" approach to all this.  I miss
|> hockey, but am doing other things to occupy my time.  Went to the Pirates-
|> Expos game the other night.  There were a lot of Pens fans there.  You could
|> tell which ones we were, we knew all the words to the Canadian national
|> anthem. :-)
|> 
|> Lori


I thought the same thing.  I attended a Pirates-Expos game with two others who
attend the Pens games and we all sang the Canadian national anthem.  Did you
also notice that they sang it in all English (no French).

During the game, I was sadly reminded of how dull baseball is.  I am a fair
weather Pirate fan, but can't really get excited about the game of baseball.
The best/worst part about attending a baseball game...it is so slow that many
more poeple drink way to much beer and perform the usual stupid drunk fan
routine.

Good news about the NHL strike...the playoffs will last into June and shorten
the summer break between seasons!!!

-Jay


John W. Huber, Jr. - aka Jay   | Penguins - 1991 Stanley Cup Champions
Software Engineering Institute | Pirates - 1990,1991 NL East Champions
SEI 3217        (412) 268-3550 | MasterCraft - The ONLY boat for skiing
From: dja1@mulch.picst.bellcore.com (Dave Arlington)
Subject: Re: Fan Intervention
Reply-To: arlingto@remus.rutgers.edu
Organization: Bell Communications Research
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 18:14:46 GMT


In article <1992Apr17.153204.21472@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu>, leyfre@McRCIM.McGill.EDU
(Frederic Leymarie) writes:
|> 
|> He said he did a stupid thing, but he was not trying to beat up the all Sabres
|> team ... 8-) or did not have any particular aggresive intention. He lost his
|> mind (with the help of a massive alchohol dose).
|> 
|> In any case, the way the Sabres players behaved (especially the one on top of
|> him, punching him X times on the head) was pretty disgusting. Even the coach
|> was involved, apparently shouting pretty stupid directives to his "soldiers".
|> 
|> This is no sports.
|> -- 

   I saw on MSG Network the other night, Bob Page showing that highlight
film and lamenting about the stuff like this being what makes hockey so
unpopular in the United States ("like WrestleMania" he said) and I've seen
a couple posts here with the same attitude. Like hockey is the only sport
in the world where the players would get into it with a fan.

   Funny thing is that I can remember plenty of football games where drunk
fans have run on the field in their street clothes only to get tackled and
pummeled by a 300 pound linebacker wearing a ton of protective equipment. 
It may lead off the sportscasts that night (except most football coverage
will not even show fans on the field of play any more) but no one will
decry the NFL for being goonish when it happens and the sportscaster usually
gloats about how the fan deserved it.

   IT just amazes me how the NHL and hockey in general seems to have a whole
different set of mores applied to it by sanctimonious broadcasters (and 
readers of r.s.h) than other sports.

"Remember, save the planet, defy authority, and watch your cholesterol!"-PLCL
"Nulla Quaestio!"                Dave Arlington



Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: perkins@beauregard.udel.edu (Erik 'Air' Perkins)
Subject: Re: So long, Stanley Cup playoffs
Summary: AHL vs. NHL
Keywords: minor vs. major leagues
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 22:39:32 GMT

>>If that's the case, count me out.  I'm not paying major league prices to see
>>minor league talent.  I'll stay home and watch college hockey on cable.
>
>I'm sorry you feel this way.  Minor league hockey is just as exciting 
>as NHL hockey.  As an AHL fan, I can say I've seen games that are much
>more exciting than some NHL games I've seen.  I know of a few AHL teams
>that could play any NHL team anyday and win.  And considering a lot of
>...
>Carrie

I've heard the minor league team vs. major league team argument before, but
have never really bought it.  Do you really believe that a minor league team
could beat any NHL team?  I've heard the same comment about collegiate teams
(in the U.S) that win national championships.

I've only seen one minor league game (in St. Hyacinth) and it was as exciting,
if not moreso, than many of the NHL games that I have seen.  But to say that
either team playing could beat San Jose or Quebec is very questionable...

I can believe freak games where an NHL squad could lose to an extremely hot
goalie with a good supporting cast, but to say ANYDAY is pretty shaky to me.

Does anybody else think that ANY minor league team could actually beat an NHL
squad even 5-10% of the time?

erik