From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Mattingly, what a fine fielder (was: Hardly not etc.)
Date: 5 Nov 92 20:56:39 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
Distribution: na

In article <7943@transfer.stratus.com> gene@bogus.sw.stratus.com  
(Eugene Loparco) writes:
> In article <7941@transfer.stratus.com>  
jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:
> >In article <7936@transfer.stratus.com> gene@bogus.sw.stratus.com  
> >(Eugene Loparco) writes:
> >> I think Mr. Lee's point (and mine) is that if you want to think  
> >that
> >> Luis Rivera is as good as Ozzie Smith defensively that is your  
> >opinion
> >> and you are entitled to it.
> >
> >But if you take that attitude, then really not much is worth
> >disucssing. If everything is a matter of opinion and all opinions
> >are equal, then why talk about anything: it doesn't matter.
> >Of course, the truth is that all opinions aren't created equal.
> >Some are well substantiated, some are nonsense, and most are
> >somewhere in between. 
> 
> You are missing my point.  My whole argument is that I don't think  
it
> is right that the people who argue that Don Mattingly is a poor to  
average
> fielder claim that it is a FACT and not a well thought out OPINION.   
Now,
> I agree when you say that some opinions are more well thought out  
than
> others but that does not mean that the one that is more well  
thought out
> is a fact.

OK, perhaps you define your terms a bit here then. Is it possible
to, given your definitions of fact, state facts about the abilities
of baseball players, or is it all opinion.

Also, even if we stick with the word "opinion" and refrain from
talking about "facts," some opinions are based on better evidence
than others.   I can say all I want that, in my opinion, Alfredo
Griffen is a great hitter.  But if I can't back it up in some
way, people have the right to note that the opinion is a flimsy
one. However, if I want to contend that Barry Bonds or Frank
Thomas is a great hitter, I have lots of evidence that I can
back it up with. 

> >Fine, the Earth is flat and Elvis is really alive and running a
> >gas station somewhere.  Just an opinion, so don't try to
> >use facts to disuade me of this.
> 
> Those have been proven wrong (well, one anyway), so they are not  
opinions,
> they are misconceptions.  The "fact" that Don Mattingly is a poor  
to average
> fielder has NOT been proven right yet (although I'm sure it has in  
some of
> the "stathead"'s minds).  This is an opinion.
> 

But it is an opinion with lots of evidence to back it up. On the
other hand, the evidence that he is a great fielder is much 
flimsier (though I'd rather try to defend this than defend
Alfredo Griffen as a great hitter :)).

> Your argument is bogus because I never claimed that I thought  
(noticed I
> said "thought") Mattingly was a good fielder because he looked  
good.  I
> said that in watching him play I noticed that he was an exceptional
> defensive first basemen last year.

You mean you "noticed" this but didn't "think" it?  I'm getting
confused with all this "thought" vs. "felt" vs. "noticed" 
debate that is going on here.

--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball