HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mwj@beta.lanl.gov (William Johnson)
Subject: Re: recommandation for good performances of choral works.
Summary: "bellicose and bovine" !? 
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:23:18 GMT

In article <46995@dscatl.UUCP> mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham) writes:
>Perhaps I should have clarified that I mean Northeastern American
>choirs trying to imitate the "English sound."  We don't have in
>the U.S. a long-standing tradition of a cathedral schooling that
>trains boys (or girls) from age 7 in a consistant, common
>school of vocal/choral technique.  Granted, its attraction comes
>partly from the distinctly different sound produced from what is
>the majority "American" (eastern seaboard) choral sound, which for
>my tastes comes across often as bellicose and bovine.
				 ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^

Congratulations, Mark; you've added a useful new expression to my lexicon of
critical put-downs. :-)  I must admit, however, that I am not completely sure
just what you mean.  Could you expand on what goes into a "bellicose and
bovine" sound?

Actually, I *think* I know what you mean, and assuming I'm right, I would like
to point out that a flip side of this criticism exists.  I perform mainly with
a group that has traditionally bent over backwards to avoid a "bellicose and
bovine" sound -- and consequently gets consistently pilloried by certain
critics as "too careful."  "Bellicose and bovine" probably sounds pretty good
to a bull ... and judging from the bull**** produced by this one particular
critic, he just might be one. :-)  Seriously, I am somewhat bothered by the
implication that there is a "right" choral sound.  Is it not possible to
listen to choruses and performances on a case-by-case basis and rejoice in the
*merits* of each without resorting to blanket put-downs of a general type of
sound?  The critic I allude to has a reputation as a curmudgeon who doesn't
like much of anything, and consequently his value to both performers and
prospective listeners is reduced.  Mark, you have nicely laid out the virtues
of the "Scandinavian" sound in a small-to-moderate-sized chorus; who will
speak for the virtues of the "bellicose and bovine" sound, and what it might
be good for?

-- 
Bill Johnson				| My suggestion for an Official
Los Alamos National Laboratory		| Usenet Motto: "If you have nothing
Los Alamos, New Mexico USA		| to say, then come on in, this is the
!cmcl2!lanl!mwj (mwj@lanl.gov)		| place for you, tell us all about it!"
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: gerritse@sci.kun.nl (Bart Gerritse)
Subject: poulenc dialogues
Keywords: poulenc
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 08:52:12 GMT

Last weekend I heard the Classic CD cd from this month. On it are two items
that made a real impression on me. First Ravel's pianomusic by Casadesus on
Sony. And second the last scene from "Dialogues des Carmelites" from Poulenc.
I had never heard of this opera. The final scene (whose 7 minutes were on
the disc) gave me shivers down my spine. Perhaps because of the horror in the 
story and the music (the guillotine sounds very real), perhaps because of the 
very serene and beautifully flowing melody. Can anybody tell me if the rest 
of the opera is as good? And what recordings exist, and how good they are? I 
heard a new one, recently released by Virgin. Kent Nagano conducting the Opera 
de Lyon. To anybody interested: this recording seems well worth investigating 
to me.

Bart Gerritse

PS Is the title really "Dialogues des Carmelites", as Classic CD spells it
(with an ' on the first e in Carmelites)? As the opera is about nuns, I
would expect "Dialogues des Carmelitesses". (But my french is only a bit
better than my swahili :-)).
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose,rec.music.classical
From: lynn@urbana.mcd.mot.com (Lynn D. Newton)
Subject: Re: Composition contests
Organization: Motorola MCG, Urbana Design Center
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:13:18 GMT


   I'm interested in composition contests (as I'm composing myself). 
   Could everyone who has some infos about any composition contest 
   all over the world (especially contemporary "classic" music, 
   but not necessarily) mail me those infos ? 
   An info could be an address, a description of the contest,...

Sorry, I can't help you, but you reminded me:

I've been curious to know for a long time whether the Bearns Prize is
still offered by Columbia University? This contest, originally as I
recall for composers under 30, had numerous prestigious winners, such
as Milton Babbitt (during WWII), Charles Wuorinen. As I recall, most
of the composers I was familiar with were of that ilk, i.e., the
Columbia-Princeton mold.

The reason I'm curious is that I shared first prize for a piano work
back around 1965 or so, but I haven't heard anything about it since.
(I'm no longer a part of the professional music world.)

--
=============================================================
Lynn D. Newton            | Core Engineering                 
Motorola Computer Group   | System Test                      
2900 South Diablo Way     | (Department of Heuristic Neology)
Tempe, Arizona 85282      | "the bug stops here!"            
Mail Stop DW220           |==================================
(602) 438-3739            |               FOR                
lynn@ives.phx.mcd.mot.com |               RENT               
=============================================================
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: re : recommendations for choral music
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:12:10 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.122159.8776@vax.oxford.ac.uk> wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>In article <8SEP199220025974@eccles.caltech.edu>, inr@eccles.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid) writes:
>> as a follow-up to wilcox@vax.oxford etc etc etc

>>  1) I think the original poster meant the Westminster Choir (as in
>>  opposite Princeton) - not the Westminster Cathedral Choir. They're
>>  pretty fine

>Fair enough: it's not a choir which is known over here.

A small point: I'm sure that *some* of their dozens of recordings with
the NY Phil and Phila. Orch under Bernstein, Stoky, Ormandy, Muti,
etc. have been released in England over the last four decades...

(They've also been known to stop in England on their annual tours.  
Of course, every American high-school choir feels the need to tour,
so sensitive listeners often avoid touring choirs on principle, but
they *have* been heard in England.)

Roger

Newsgroups: rec.music.compose,rec.music.classical
From: quaglia@seas.smu.edu (Bruce Quaglia)
Subject: Re: Composition contests
Organization: SMU School Of Engineering and Applied Science
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 06:13:47 GMT

>
>I've been curious to know for a long time whether the Bearns Prize is
>still offered by Columbia University? This contest, originally as I
>recall for composers under 30, had numerous prestigious winners, such
>as Milton Babbitt (during WWII), Charles Wuorinen. As I recall, most
>of the composers I was familiar with were of that ilk, i.e., the
>Columbia-Princeton mold.
>

It still exists but is for composers under 26 now, I'm not sure that it
is as significant an  award as it used to be.


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cerrlss@techunix.technion.ac.il (Shahar Steiff)
Subject: Re: Haydn's "The Seasons"
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 07:15:46 GMT

douglas@rhi.hi.is (Douglas Brotchie) writes:

>A local choral society here is planning on presenting Haydn's oratorio
>"The Seasons" during the autumn season.
>Does anyone know of any recognized cuts which are made in performances
>of this work ?

Try cutting the "Seasons" and putting a "Creation" instead. You won't
regret it !

-- 
 /=== Shahar Steiff  -   Computing and Process Control Engineer ===\
/ Chemical Engineering, Technion , Haifa, ISRAEL 32000   (room 318) \
\ Ph.(+)972-4-293420 Fx.(+)972-4-230476 | cerrlss@tx.technion.ac.il /
 \==Home:Ramat Yochanan 30035 04-459536 | cerrlss@technion.bitnet==/
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: martel@marvin.mr.sintef.no (Paulo Martel)
Subject: Re: Chopin's Studies
Organization: University of Trondheim, Norway
Date:  7 Sep 92 09:57:38 GMT

sampels@colores.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Michael Sampels) writes:

>I am looking for a good recording of Chopin's Studies. Today, I
>went to the CD shop and listened to Gavrillov's recording. This
>is too fast and too loud at many pieces, I think. Who can tell
>me something about other recordings? What about Askenazy or even
>Arrau?

>Michael

I like Pollini (DG) for his brilliance and bravura,  F.-R.Duchable (Erato)
is more serene and meditative. Nikita Magaloff (Philips) is more like Duchable,
but not quite as good (IMHO). L.Lortie (Chandos) plays well and the CD has a
wonderful sound.

Paulo
--
Paulo Martel             |  e-mail: martel@marvin.mr.sintef.no |               
MR-Center                |  phone: +47-7-997700                |               
SINTEF		         |  FAX:   +47-7-997708                |               
N-7034 Trondheim, NORWAY |                                     |
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Solti and Karajan (was: Re: Mahler's 5th Symphony by Solti ...)
Date: 8 Sep 92 23:49:53 GMT
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria BC, Canada


>explain the sonic abominations of his Planets of Nielsen 4th?
                                               ^^ should be 'or'
please excuse the fickle fingers.

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
From: zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Grabowski)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: proposal to this list
Date: 12 Sep 92 14:10:20 GMT
Organization: Temple University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Marco Simionato (simion@iveuncc.unive.it) wrote:
: This is a proposal I make, which I hope will meet wide success!
: I was thinking that it might be very useful, and interesting, if
: people who live in places where there are big musical seasons posted
: the programmes for opera houses, music halls and festivals.
: This way, people who usually travel to assist to such events would
: have an opportunity to schedule their trips, or to know about upcoming
: events at all. To this regard, I greatly appreciated the posting of
: some days ago listing the next concerts Maestro Celibidache will give.
: Shortly, the programmes for the musical season in Venice, Italy (where
: I live) will be published, as will the programmes for Milan.
: I would like some feedback to this proposal, both to this thread or to
: me personally.
: 
: Thanks


Good idea is my reaction! 


If I get my hands on some Academyof Music programs, I'll be sure to post them.


John
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Sergiu Celibidache
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria BC, Canada
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 02:12:38 GMT

In article <dgold.0jg0@basso.actrix.gen.nz> dgold@basso.actrix.gen.nz (Dale Gold) writes:
>Quoted from <1992Sep2.180530.15315@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> by dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker):
>> In article <CB.92Aug31115103@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
>> >
>> >I've been interested in Celibidache mainly because of his reputation.
>> >(His uncompromising image always makes his name look to me like a
>> >cognate of "celibate", though I doubt his asceticism goes in that
>> >direction.)  So what recordings *do* exist, to give us a sense of why
>> >he's so revered?
>> 
>> Hardly any. he had a dreadful experience recording the Brahms Violin
>> Concerto (with Ida Haendel) in around 1956 for SMI I think, and vowed
>> never to return to the studio again, and I don't believe he has. 
>
>I have to laugh.  I just played with Ida Haendel a few weeks ago, and we're
>talking about one difficult woman!  Violinistic qualities aside, when we
>were trying to fly out of Wellington in horrific weather conditions, she
>caused a great uproar amongst the airline staff when she insisted on a
>*private bed* at the airport to have a nap while hundreds of stranded
>travellers waited in the airport.  When we finally got onto a plane and
>were about to leave, she decided that the aircraft was not suitable and
>terrorised the crew insisting to be let off just as the plane was about to
>take off.
>
>Could it be that the unusual career of the legendary Celibadache was begun
>as a result of an experience with this unusual woman? :-) :-)

I understood that it was the recording company - and maybe the
engineers - that he had the difficult time with.

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
From: rwh@visual.com (Rob Holzel)
Subject: "Meeting Venus"
Organization: Visual
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 12:20:28 GMT

I haven't seen this movie mentioned in the newsgroup.  It's a film
starring Glenn Close (voice by Kiri Te Kanawa) that dramatizes the
trials and tribulations of staging "Tannhauser" at the "Opera Europa"
in Paris.  Glenn Close plays an American prima donna soprano who
has been hired to sing the role of Elisabeth.

I'm wondering what operaphiles here have thought of this movie.  Is
its depiction of the unionization of opera productions accurate?  I
just can't believe that some of the troubles encountered by the
hapless conductor are really true -- especially the refusal to raise
the safety curtain as the opening night performance is about to
start.  I tend to think that was merely a ploy to avoid the production
expense of actually staging the opera.

Dame Kiri's voice is marvelous here, by the way.  Glenn Close does
a good job of lip synching, which is more than I can say for some of
the other performers.  :-)  And the final Pilgrim's Chorus, with the
chorus members out in the aisles of the auditorium with the audience,
succeeds in sending chills down the spine.  I found myself listening
to my Sinopoli "Tannhauser" all over again afterward.

Any comments about this movie?  I'm not sure I'd say it "works" 
dramatically in terms of its own story, but it is never boring and
has succeeded in attracting some non-operatic friends of mine to
"Tannhauser" itself.   A love for the work truly does inhabit the
film, which in itself would seem to recommend it to any opera lover. 

Does anyone know where the interiors were shot?

Rob 


From: Frank.Panettiere@f2040.n391.z1.FidoNet.Org (Frank Panettiere)
Sender: UUCP@p0.f1060.n391.z1.FidoNet.Org
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: The Essential John Cage
Date: 06 Sep 92 12:22:00 EST

* In a message originally to All,  said:
-> Given the interest in Cage on this group, and since people
-> have asked for
-> suggestions of works to listen to, I thought I'd post the
-> following list,
-> which will be part of my forthcoming book on Cage's music.



-> Sonatas and Interludes (1946-1948): Wergo; [Label?]
-> (Takahashi);
-> [Label?]  (Fremy).   There  are other recordings of excerpts
-> from
-> the cycle, but it really should be heard in  its  entirety.
-> The
-> 1951  recording  made by Maro Ajemian used to be available as
-> CRI
-> 199.  One hopes that it will be reissued:  despite the
-> technical
-> flaws in the recording, it is of tremendous historical
-> importance

That recording of the Sonatas and Interludes for Prepared Piano performed
by
Maro Ajemian was distributed by Dial Records of 520 West 50th Street, New
York 50, NY.  He allowed it to be recorded as a wedding present for Miss
Ajemian. I have a copy of the two-disc set (Dial 19 & Dial 20) in front of
me.  So, I know that I have the facts straight.

By the way, yesterday (September 5th) was the 80th anniversary of John
Cage's birth.

                                                            Frank

 * Origin: The Human Interface * V.32bis/HST16.8 * 501-271-0179
(1:391/2040)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Flute technique books, flute group
From: comjohn@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Mr. John T Jensen)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 20:27:54 GMT
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

Recently I asked for information on horn technique books in this group, and
not only received many helpful responses, but also was told of a brass
discussion group in which I now participate.

My daughter plays the flute and wants to become a professional flutist.  I
wonder if anyone knows of a specialised discussion group that would include
flute players.  Also, has anyone any good recommendations for books on flute
technique.  She has or has read a variety of good general books on the
flute, but many spend a great deal of time on history of the instrument,
musical repertoire, and other matters.  These are all of importance, but I
think she might profit from a good book on flute playing technique,
comparable to Phillip Farkas's The Art of French Horn Playing which was
recommended to me.  Is there a similar classic on the flute?  Anybody have a
favourite or two?

If not of general interest to the net, reply by email, and I will post a
summary.

jj

John Thayer Jensen                      64 9 373 7599 ext. 7543
Commerce Computer Services              64 9 373 7437 (FAX)
Auckland University                     jt.jensen@aukuni.ac.nz
Private Bag 92019
AUCKLAND
New Zealand
From: singer@apple.com (Dave Singer)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: re : recommendations for choral music
Date: 14 Sep 92 20:45:53 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer

In article <46992@dscatl.UUCP>, mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham) writes:
>The larger the chorus, the more *likely* that it
> will have an anonymous character
>....
> But don't mistake that large choruses all sound alike.

Indeed, hearing the British Youth Choir recently was an ear-opener. The
combination of energy, enthusiasm, and accuracy was breath-taking when
compared with the worn-out oldies (like me) that I usually hear.

(Even though some of their selections were a little inappropriate...
The Bluebird really isn't a big chorus piece!)
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Mahler's 5th Symphony by Solti and remastering CDs
Date: 4 Sep 92 21:00:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: tamarack.CB.92Sep4160011
	<1992Sep1.220115.22548@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> <BtyCqv.HrK@news.udel.edu>
	<1992Sep3.180333.4315@spang.Camosun.BC.CA>
	<4SEP199209185595@portal.lasc.lockheed.com>
Distribution: usa
Organization: pubs
In-reply-to: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com's message of 4 Sep 92 16:13:12 GMT

Ron Nadel writes:

   Interestingly Karajan hated Solti and his work, although Georgy
   held Karajan in at least high professional esteem.

Solti was an impoverished refugee from Nazism at the same time that
Herbie the K was living high with, so far as I'm aware, no moral qualms
about the regime that supported him--and I think he was unapologetic
after the war.  I had the impression Solti was the one with the grudge,
but I don't know.  Karajan never performed in Chicago; I assumed Solti
wouldn't allow it, but maybe Karajan would have refused in any case
because of *his* grudge.  Also notice that Solti never conducted at
Bayreuth until just a few years ago, long after he had recorded most of
Wagner's works; I can guess whose policy that was.  In this battle of
the titans, my sympathies are with Solti across the board.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Martinon's EMI Ravel
In-reply-to: steve@fid.morgan.com's message of Tue, 15 Sep 1992 15:49:44 GMT
Organization: pubs
Date: 15 Sep 92 11:49:33 CDT

Steve Apter writes:

   Also recently deleted, Martinon's recordings of
   _Symphonie Fantastique_ and _Lelio_, on EMI.

That's regrettable--it's my favorite version.  Also try to hear his
version of L'Enfance du Christ (also my favorite version--listen to the
"farewell" section or whatever that part is called).  It used to be on
Nonesuch and was a reissue from maybe Erato.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ashley@oasis.gtefsd.com (Bob Ashley)
Subject: (James) Clifton Williams on Compact Disc ...
Reply-To: ashley@oasis.gtefsd.com
Organization: GTE Federal Systems Division
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 04:34:22 GMT

I recently received a new shipment of discs from BMG and one of them is a
"British and American Band Classics" CD, with the Clifton Williams piece
"Fanfare and Allegro" as the finale.

This now evokes memories of performing other pieces such as "The Sinfonians"
and "Caccia and Chorale", MANY years ago when I was in the band program.

My question is this ... are there any CD's available that contain his works
and if so, where can I find them?

Many thanks in advance ...


Bob - former percussionist  :-)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Ashley                        Internet:  Bob.Ashley@oasis.gtefsd.com

Software Engineer, (703)-818-4656  | Winter Leagues 1992-1993
   GTE Federal Systems Division    |    GTE FSD Mixed Secretary: Thu 17:45
   15000 Conference Center Drive   |    Thursday Mixups:         Thu 20:30
   Chantilly, VA   22021-3808      |    NFL Mixed Secretary:     Mon 21:00


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay)
Subject: Re: Supertitling
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1992 14:33:49 EDT

In article <1992Sep3.161858.8638@vax.oxford.ac.uk> wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
writes:

>For an example of what bad translation can do to excellent music, you only
>have to look at some of the translated editions of the music of Tallis and
>Byrd.

I don't see the point of calling upon examples of bad translation in this
discussion.  What we're talking about is how well *good* translation works.

>I know many translators can do better than that,
>but it is an uphill struggle. 

So is writing a good libretto in the original language.

Chris Ischay
chrisi@camex.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Mahler's 5th Symphony by Solti and remastering CDs
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria BC, Canada
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 02:19:35 GMT

In article <CB.92Sep4160011@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
>Ron Nadel writes:
>
>   Interestingly Karajan hated Solti and his work, although Georgy
>   held Karajan in at least high professional esteem.
>
>Solti was an impoverished refugee from Nazism at the same time that
>Herbie the K was living high with, so far as I'm aware, no moral qualms
>about the regime that supported him--and I think he was unapologetic
>after the war.  I had the impression Solti was the one with the grudge,
>but I don't know.  Karajan never performed in Chicago; I assumed Solti
>wouldn't allow it, but maybe Karajan would have refused in any case
>because of *his* grudge.  Also notice that Solti never conducted at
>Bayreuth until just a few years ago, long after he had recorded most of
>Wagner's works; I can guess whose policy that was.  In this battle of
>the titans, my sympathies are with Solti across the board.

Solti was one of the few internationally famous conductors whom
Karajan succeeded in keeping out of Berlin. This from an article
quoted in a recent DG press-pack. Interesetingly enough, it seems that
it was K's wish that Solti take over at Salzburg.... Who can tell.

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.music.bluenote