Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:50:37 EDT
From:         Tim Johnson <ST402711@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      murky thoughts

>Leonard's Deep Thoughts:
>That is a good question!....
>In other words, we are talking about ideas of PERFECTION here (in a way):
>1) There's Miles, Jimi, Coltrane....

Sonia is much more patient than I with Leonard's deep
thoughts.  Though this is almost certain to result in
a long reply from the man himself filled with run-on
sentences and lame insults, I'll say my piece.

That was a stupid thought.

You seem to be unable to distinguish technical mastery
from some sort of artistic mastery from "the vision
thing" - what Sonia calls the reaching.

I listen to what the artists are trying to communicate.

Some of them have the technical ability to do this
better than others - and some have an artistic ability
to express this better than others - and some even
have ideas to communicate more profound, more gut-wrenching,
more intriguing, more [ put your adjective here ] than
others.  But is Miles the greatest artist to come down
the pike?  Well, not if you think that the symphony is
the greatest expression.  And that's why it is a dumb
question.

So Jimi had things to say, and the ability to express
them, and a mastery of the guitar.  Mahler had things
to say, and the ability to express them, too.  How can
you compare "Castles of Sand" (whatever the title is)
to Symphony 3?  You can't.  They do different things,
in different ways.

How can you compare it to (to get back to music with
guitars) that same song to Tull's "Baker Street Muse."
Was Jimi a better guitar player than Ian Anderson
and Martin Barre?  Well, probably.  Did he have better
things to say, and did he express them better than
Ian Anderson did?  On the second issue we could probably
open a debate - but on the first?  On what basis can
you compare these things?  "Kind of Blue" to Prokofiev's
Symphony 6?  You can't.  You can make up arbitrary
criteria - but that only begs the question.  "Well, I
mean better in the sense of conveying the feelings of
despair and betrayal in finding that Russia under Stalin
was in no better condition than Russia under Hitler."
"Oh, well, Prokofiev's Symphony 6 is clearly better, then."

Besides, in the end, the importance of the message is in
the ear of the beholder.  While I may find the expressions
of Prokofiev's Symphony much more profound than the commonplace
jump-in-your-car-with-a-six-pack-and-a-chick-and-go-hang-out-
by-the-river-cause-your-life-is-going-nowhere-so-tonight-may-
as-well-be-it outpourings of angst of an early Bruce Springsteen,
clearly old Bruce struck a chord with a lot of listeners.
On what standards would you judge which is more important,
immediate, or involving?  Can you invent some which are
objective?

Now, I'd never be one to say that there isn't really lame music,
too.  Milli Vanilli springs to mind.  And there are thousands
of dance bands whose message goes no further than an easily
recognizable 4/4 thump you can dance to.  But that's not art -
that is just dance music - technique.  No more.  And if you
are only asking about that - there are thousands of dance bands,
instead of just one best, for novelty's sake, for variety.
(And, of course, ultimately because that is what the market
will bear.)

But shoot, narrow down your question.  Who was the greatest
ever horn player?  Guitarist?  No, all you eager allmusic folk,
spare us the debate.  The point is, you won't get an answer.
You'll just get a list of really good ones.  But, who was the
best songwriter?  And would the best rock and roll artist be
the individual with the best sum total of guitar skill and
songwriting ability?  Or is the keyboard better than the guitar?
Maybe it depends upon how many instruments you can play.
Does Roland Kirk get bonus points for tooting two together?
Is the best keyboard player one who plays rock, jazz, or classical?

Hold on folks, it gets better - why listen to all the work of the
best jazz artist - why not listen to the one best jazz performance.

Why not read just the One Greatest Book, or view the One Greatest
Work of Art?

Why not just have one posting on allmusic...the one greatest posting
by the greatest poster about the greatest musical artist?

Or is the original question not so much a product of deep thoughts
as it is a product of insufficient thought?

We listen to other artists to hear what they have to say, and how
they say it.

                               -Tim
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU