From: pmetzger@snark.shearson.com (Perry E. Metzger)
Subject: Robert Sturrock: he who would be butcher of millions
Organization: /usr/local/lib/news/organization
Distribution: world,local
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:43:45 GMT

In article <9220320.27155@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> rns@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Robert Noel STURROCK) writes:
>pmetzger@snark.shearson.com (Perry E. Metzger) writes:
>
>>When people like you last herded people into gas chambers, few in the
>>world believed such evil was possible. Now that we know what your kind
>>are capable of, however, it is unlikely that we'll passively allow
>>ourselves to be butchered by your ilk again.
>
>When you want to start addressing some facts, rather than trying to
>put a quick end to the debate through accusing me of Nazism, let
>me know...
>
>I won't use a gas chamber.  People will die of old age if allowed to.
>I wouldn't be required to kill anybody- simply witholding medication will
>do the trick.  Medication that costs thousands of dollars; so a few
>senile old people can live for a few more years not knowing what day it
>is.

You weren't talking about senile people. We were talking about healthy
adults with fully functioning faculties.

You might think that others did not read what you wrote, and that
people forget. The net makes it easy to remember, however. I can just
quote everything you said. First, you proposed preventing people with
fully functioning mental faculties from receiving transplants. Proof,
in the form of a quote from you.

>>>The first heart transplant was performed
>>>a long time ago, yet still remains in the domain of the rich.
>
>>So heart transplants should not be allowed?  Does a person have the right
>
>No, they should not.  But then, that is another issue, and is best dealt
>with elsewhere...

You've said that you think people are only entitled to a certain
amount of time to live, vis:

>>What is your line of thought that each person is only entitled to x
>>amount of time alive? 
>
>That is right.   There are not enough resources permit things to be
>any other way.

Some thought you were kidding (some thought Hitler was kidding), but
you went further:

>>I presume that when technology makes things otherwise [that is,
>>allows people to live healthy indefinite lifespans] you will be there
>>to euthanize the people who won't cooperate by dying when you want
>>them to?
>
>Not a bad idea...

So, there you are, from your own bloody mouth, proposing to kill
healthy people, because there "aren't enough resources".

We can find more gems from you.

>>I don't intend to let you kill
>>me no matter how morally outraged you might be. When you come to stop
>>me from living, I assure you that I'll shoot back, and have no qualms
>>about killing you to stop you from klling me.
>
>I would expect no less.  It's nothing personal, you understand.

Getting pretty unmistakable what your intentions are, isn't it. I'm
sure like all Nazis you will resort to the "Big Lie" and say that you
didn't say any of that, or that somehow what I've said is some
misinterpretation, but people have gotten sophisticated about your
ilk. Anyone wanting copies of your whole articles can just dig them
out.

So, lets summarize, shall we?

You've said that you would forceably prevent healthy people from
getting all sorts of medical treatment, including transplants, even
when paid for with their own money. When medicine makes it possible,
you have said you would euthanize people who had received treatment to
prevent aging so they would die "on time". Hard to deny that you've
said this, given that its sitting there in nice error-checked bits in
my filesystem. Maybe you should try the "big lie", like Goebels
pioneered; it might work for you, too, were it not for the fact that
we aren't ignorant enough for it.

Who cares if you use a gas chamber. You contend that you have the
right to decide matters of life and death for OTHER people; you feel
you have the right to forceably prevent others from receiving care,
and you feel you have the right to kill those who live too long (see
the euthanize quote above).

You feel you are somehow better than the rest of us and have the right
to make life and death decisions FOR US, deciding who shall live and
who shall die, and when. This does indeed put you on the same plane as
the Nazis.  Naturally you don't believe yourself to be a bad guy, but
it really doesn't matter; Hitler probably thought himself was a good
guy as well.
--
Perry Metzger		pmetzger@shearson.com
--
		  Just say "NO!" to death and taxes.
			 Extropian and Proud.