Organization: Rohm and Haas Company
Date: Wednesday, 8 Apr 1992 16:43:27 EDT
From: Aengus Lawlor <RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: What goes around comes around

In article <1992Apr7.072444.21041@cs.rose-hulman.edu>,
geraghj@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John Geraghty) says:
>
>A few weeks back I posted an article to this newsgroup entitled
>"Sick'n'tired of the "Troubles" isn't there more to Ireland?". I
>expected the replies to flood in...it took a few days but they came.
>The first few were encouraging all in agreement with my views. I began
>to see hope, a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel...the birth of
>a revolution against the stuck up idealists on this newsgroup who won't
>bend or yield an inch....who won't discuss the problems but try to ram
>their views down every body else's troaths as if theirs was the only side
>of the coin. But sadly I was wrong........how wrong I was

From this weeks Irish Emigrant:

     - Speaking to young members of the Church of Ireland, Dr Garret
       FitzGerald had harsh words for sections of the press which
       promoted false values.  He cited gossip columnists as an
       example.  What he found more disconcerting was that fear of
       being damned as "self-righteous" had "silenced all but the most
       foolhardy critics of this new value system".

I find a certain parallel between the new value system he refers to, and
the values of those who have been critical of the recent discussion on the
subject of Northern Ireland. There is the suggestion that those of us
who were involved in that discussion were somehow involved in something
distasteful, something that has no place in polite society.

It is noticeable that none of the posters complaining about this have
suggested that this is an inappropriate forum (it isn't), they just feel it's
inappropriate topic for discussion. It is also noticable that most of the
complaints come from net.neophytes. Those who have been around in scc for
a while recognise that NI is a topic that come's up once or twice a year,
and typically degenerates into a total flame war, and then fizzles out,
much more quickly than it did on this occassion.

>As the days went by and more and more articles were posted in reply my
>dream died a slow tortured death. People began to use my views as
>something to argue about and further their own cause - the destruction of
>any chance for discussion......My article was never intended to produce
>this response, it was intended to encourage people to write about
>(discuss) something that really has something to do with celtic culture or
>at least give people an opportunity to hear and discuss the views of
>everybody. Instead some people have chosen to use my views as another
>opportunity to pick the bones from the carcass and inflict wound upon
>wound until they were satisfied they had totally destroyed any meaning
>that could be possibly gained from the other's views.
The "Troubles" have a great deal to do with the development and survival
of Celtic culture in Ireland. Irelands attitude to, and support for the
Irish language is increasingly coloured by official ambivalence to NI.
It's not very difficult to find people in Dublin who believe that all
Irish speakers are IRA supporters. When I was in the scouts, 15 years
ago, we would often sing rebel songs around the campfire. That doesn't
occur now, which is good from the point of view of progress towards peace
but bad in that a very rich part of our musical tradition is being lost
to our young people.

>
>Once again I stick my neck out for sanity and beg you to get a life!!!
>Before anyone tries to rip this apart on the grounds that I'm not Irish
>just another god damn Yank...I've got you there. I was Born and Bred in a
>small town in Co Tipperary in the Republic Of Ireland called Roscrea and
>I'm proud of Jackie Charlton and the Lads. I've only been in the States
>since August and I will be Home soon. Ah I swear to God I'll never
>complain about the Guinness they slop up in the Stables again.
>
>Well here's hoping that not all of what I have said will fall on deaf ears
>I am willing to DISCUSS my views. I am not willing however to engage in
>bitter argument over my views..
Would you like to define precisely what you think the difference between
discussion and arguement is, and the difference between arguement and
bitter arguement? I would contend that if you're not willing to engage
in valid arguement about your views, you should refrain from sharing
them with the world. If they're not worth defending, they're not worth
posting.
>
>Thanks for reading
>
>John Geraghty
>**************************************************************************
>The views I have expressed are my own. I did not read them in any book
>instead I have lived them. They are open to discussion but not to
>argument or deformation of meaning.
>John Geraghty ---- I have fought in the battle of life and survived-so far
>                    anyway
Aengus
--
RBYAML@ROHMHAAS.COM                    Aengus Lawlor
RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET                   (who used to be ALAWLOR@DIT.IE)
"How about some of that famous Dublin wit, Barman?"
"Certainly, sir. Would that be Dry or Sparkling?"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic