HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: vchaudha@oracle.com (Vikram Aaditya Chaudhary)
Subject: Roommate search in San Francisco (woman roommate wanted)
Reply-To: uunet!oracle!vchaudha
Organization: ORACLE Corporation, San Francisco
Distribution: ba
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 03:38:15 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

Posting for a friend -- call Sulajja at (510)841-8210

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 + Professional woman, working in Berkeley, looking for a WOMAN housemate.  
 + New to San Francisco; lived here last summer.  
 + Plan to find a 2BR house/apt in San Francisco
 + Willing to pay up to $600 for my share.   Preferable: $500-550.

 Please call Sulajja at (510)841-8210
 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Vikram Aaditya Chaudhary       Project Leader, Tools & Multimedia Development
 email: uunet!oracle!vchaudha                  Oracle Corporation Headquarters
 phone: (415)506-6172	fax: (415)506-7200
                My opinions are...uh... company policy.
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Xref: sparky soc.women:13888 alt.usage.english:5379
From: pepke@ds1.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
Newsgroups: soc.women,alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Take Back the Dildo
Date: 22 Jul 92 00:19:34 GMT
Reply-To: pepke@ds1.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
Followup-To: alt.usage.english
Organization: Florida State University, but I don't speak for them

Followups to alt.usage.english; it has nothing to do with women any more. 
It's also pretty futile in alt.usage.english as well, but it's one of my
peeves.

English has THREE numbers for nouns: singular, plural, and mass.

Singular and plural numbers are used with nouns that represent countable 
objects.  Mass numbers are used with nouns that represent objects that cannot
be counted, or where the count is not particularly meaningful.

Singular examples: potato, nostril, idiot, frog
Plural examples: buckets, universes, bookshelves, orangutans
Mass examples: water, milk, sewage, entrails

Mass nouns take the same verb forms and some of the same articles as singular 
nouns, but that DOES NOT make them singular. 

Mass nouns take some of the same articles as plural nouns, but that DOES NOT
make them plural.  Mass nouns never take numerals.

Some nouns have examples with all three numbers.  An example is "cheese."  One
cheese, or a cheese, is a natural unit of cheese, such as a single wax-covered
Gouda or a wheel of Cheddar.  That is singular.  Cheeses are several of these 
natural units.  One can buy five, or seven, or fourteen Gouda cheeses.  That is
plural.  However, one can also go out and buy cheese, which is sold by weight.
That is mass.

Another example is "hair."  You can pluck out a hair.  You can pluck out 
three hairs.  However, you go get your hair cut, and unless you are terribly
unfortunate, it does not really matter exactly how many there are.

"Data" is not becoming singular.  It never will be singular.  It will never 
make sense to say "This is a single data."  What is happening is that "data"
is acquiring a new meaning as a mass noun, and mass nouns accept SOME of the
grammatical forms that singular nouns do.

Back in the old days, numbers and other facts were things you wrote on paper 
or said with your mouth.  Every one of them you had to deal with you had to
write or say.  One of these things was a datum.  Several were data.  The two
choices were singular or plural, because you had to count them.  Nowadays,
there are machines that everyone can buy which deal with more of these things
than it makes sense to count most of the time, any more than it makes sense
to count the molecules in a glass of milk.  So, the term "data" is acquiring
a mass meaning as well as a plural meaning.

-EMP
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
Subject: Re: Introducing rape as a weapon of war
Organization: Motorola, CCR&D, CORP, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:05:09 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.175201.27433@leland.Stanford.EDU> farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf) writes:
)
)On Tuesday night, _Dateline: NBC_ had Jane Pauley interviewing both
)Major Rhonda Cornum and the male sergeant who was shot down and taken
)prisoner with her.  (Sorry, I don't recall his name.  I wouldn't have
)remembered Cornum's name if I hadn't already read about her.)

)Cornum talked about her sexual assault by an Iraqi soldier, saying
)that it included him kissing her, fondling her breasts, and anal and
)vaginal penetration by his fingers.  She said that she was sure he
)would have raped her (I assume she means vaginal or anal intercourse)
)if he had been able to get her flightsuit completely down.

I was thinking about this some, and I think Goodman missed the perfect
comeback.  Rather than vaguely hinting about massive conspiracies, she
could just trot out some of the statistics about how often women are
raped in civilian life.  A lot of these statistics  may be exaggerated -
I'd expect Goodman to use the highest numbers around -  but even the most
conservative (NCS) statistics show a significant risk. I think there is
actually something to this point of view, BTW.  Why so much concern
about not allowing women to be in combat because of rape, if they've
got a fairly  high chance of it happening anyway?  Though it seems a bit
manipulative, somehow.

)Most of my impressions of the military come from my sister, who served
)for nearly four years in the JAG Corps in the Army.  Although it is
)obvious that a military's purpose is to fight wars, it's equally
)obvious that most of the time military personnel aren't doing that.
)For example, my sister used that joke that most of her legal duties
)involved processing claims for damaged Hummel figurines that belonged
)to soldiers moving from Germany back to the US. 
)
)My sister's impression was that there is more sexual harassment in the
)Army than in civilian life.

I don't have any problem beliving this.

I am somewhat curious about proposed solutions - I really don't think the
vague laws we have in civillian life are going to work well in the military.
[I don't think they work that well in civillian life, either.]

Xref: sparky soc.women:13899 soc.men:13528
From: dswartz@redondo.sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber)
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men
Subject: Re: Impossible
Date: 22 Jul 92 02:40:30 GMT
Followup-To: soc.women
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering

In article <1992Jul21.222745.23813@zooid.guild.org> goid@zooid.guild.org (Will Steeves) writes:
>farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf) writes...

[deleted]

>Yes...in Canada (probably in the States too), we have laws dealing with
>Public Mischief (ie., making a charge known to be false, saying that someone
>is dead when you know that he/she is not, etc.), but in cases of wrongful
>accusation, it is VERY hard to PROVE, even given a case having been thrown
>out of court, that the mother "knew" that she was lying.

I don't know what the U.S. version of that would be, but it's worse
than you think.  I've talked to men (some of who have posted here)
who have had sexual abuse charges made against them under oath (either
on the witness stand or in a sworn affadavit).  This is called perjury
and is a felony.  And you're right about how hard is it to prove any
part of it - that's why it is such a successful strategy for getting
custody by the mother.

>---
>Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                    "Neil Hull is GOiD"
>ZOOiD BBS, Toronto, Ontario
>(416) 322-7876
>---
> * SLMR 2.1a * We pause for station identification...


-- 

Dan S.
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: robert@informix.com (Robert Coleman)
Newsgroups: soc.women,alt.censorship,talk.politics.misc,soc.men
Subject: Re: Hate speech okay, Supreme Court says
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:45:26 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ed Nilges) writes:

>Well, Tom, as the man says in Thelma and Louise, armed robbery does not
>have to be an unpleasant experience.  I am not trying to incite a riot,
>only empty the cash drawer (warning to cop wannabes and those of a
>literal cast of mind: this talk of armed robbery is hypothetical, of
>course.)  This is done as a protest against our economic system (we'll
>say I am a rich playboy who robs as a lark, hypothetically.)

>And given that I am of course familiar with the incitement to riot
>exception, why is the shock and harm experienced by Viktora's victims
>unimportant, or less important than avoidance of a riot?

	It's not, but it's irrelevant.  You wouldn't be arrested for your
exercise of speech, you'd be arrested for robbery, which is a crime regardless
of your intended message.  You *would not undergo any punishment for your
message*.

	In contrast, Viktora would have been arrested for the message, when
it is not otherwise illegal to burn wood.

Robert C.
-- 
----------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: My company has not yet seen fit to
	    elect me as spokesperson. Hmmpf.
From: uspam@mcl.ucsb.edu (Tom Maynard)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Take Back the Dildo
Date: 19 Jul 92 09:59:21 GMT

In <1992Jul15.002938.24591@smds.com> sw@smds.com (Steve E. Witham) writes:

>In article <1992Jul10.172234.8764@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul9.212756.17009@auto-trol.com> katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty) writes:
>>)
>>)When one posts to the net, they should know what they're doing. 
>>
>>When one posts to the net, one should know what one is doing.
>>
>>It seems more consistent.

>"One" vs. "they" clashes, but:

>When someone posts to the net, they should know what they're doing.

>--Steve

How about the "Ross Perot" approach?

When you people post to the net, y'all should know what you're doing.

(I know RP's gone from the race, but he was getting to be so much fun!)

--Tom Maynard (uspam@mcl.ucsb.edu)
From: peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah Peri)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Variations of a name
Date: 31 Jul 92 03:51:27 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena

meg
Xref: sparky soc.women:14100 alt.censorship:6282 talk.politics.misc:35942 soc.men:13719
Newsgroups: soc.women,alt.censorship,talk.politics.misc,soc.men
Subject: Re: Hate speech okay, Supreme Court says
From: lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard)
Date: 25 Jul 1992 08:19 MST  
 <robert.711924326@labyrinth> <1992Jul25.040954.23288@Princeton.EDU>
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1992Jul25.040954.23288@Princeton.EDU>, egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ed Nilges) writes...
>>	In contrast, Viktora would have been arrested for the message, when
>>it is not otherwise illegal to burn wood.
> 
>Again: these attempts at miscasting what Viktora did constitute
>disinformation. In reality, Viktora victimized a black family with his
>crime.  Absent a hate crime statute, victims of these sorts of Nazi
>performance pieces have little recourse.  They can bring a private
>lawsuit, but often the perpetrators have little money and cannot be
>sued, or the victims cannot afford a civil suit.  In the absence of
>property damage (or a prominent white victim), the perpetrators are not
>likely to be sued for rowdyism because (again, absent a hate crime law)
>the authorities are apt to treat Nazi performances as little more than a
>hallowe'en prank.

Again, this simply ignores the fact that Viktora was charged not only
under the hate crime statute but for assault.

Jim Lippard              Lippard@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
Dept. of Philosophy      Lippard@ARIZVMS.BITNET
University of Arizona
Tucson, AZ 85721
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: joni@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (joni.dunlap)
Subject: Re: Period
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:08:56 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.033918.3724@nuscc.nus.sg> polsak@nuscc.nus.sg (Suzaina Abdul Kadir (Ms)) writes:
>
>I've never posted to this newsgroup but I don't
>know where else to post this question. Apologies
>if this is the wrong group though....
>
>I had a talk with a group of women friends last
>night and the topin of menstruation, PMS etc etc
>came about. A friend then mentioned that it *is*
>possible to *induce* your period if it happens to
>be a few days late already.
>
>My enquiry is whether this is true ? That you can go
>to the doctor and ask them to *induce* your period ?
>Is this a form of abortion ? But, in the case
>that my friend was talking about abortion was not
>really in the picture since the woman wasn't concerned
>about pregnancy or not, just that she wanted to get
>her period over and done with before she went on some
>trip or other.
>
>I have heard of cases of pills given to prevent 
>the menstrual flow but not the other way around.
>
>Thanks....
>
>- Suzaina

I have taken these pills a few times. I don't think a doctor would 
prescribe them just because you don't want to have your period on vacation.
The pills are used for women who are not pregnant and who are not having
a regular period and don't want to be on birthcontrol pills.  This is 
not a quick fix. You have to take the pills one a day for a week. Then
wait about a week for your period to come. So it's no quick fix. 


Joni :)
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: cindy@solan10.solan.unit.no (Cynthia Kandolf)
Subject: Those hairy legs again was Re: Exercise wear for the abundant of flesh
Organization: /home/ludviga/cindy/.organization
	<23245@alice.att.com> <1992Jul21.103412.25878@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:10:33

wojdtlo@maths.uwa.oz.au writes:
>>"Real Men Love Feminists"
>
>Yeah, I love their hairy legs.

Well, i'm glad to see at last someone adding a serious philosophical
point to this discussion.

On a less sarcastic note:  When wasting time on irc (yes, i do...), i
often get private messages from men/boys i've never spoken to before,
saying "Hi Pretty Scandinavian Girl".  Now, i'm not Scandy, but that's
beside the point.  The point i'm trying to make is, so many men and
boys out in the world have this idea that all Scandinavian "girls" are
"babes" - the Swedish Bikini Team Myth.  But they then react to the
idea of a woman or girl who doesn't shave her legs.

If someone told them many young Scandy women don't shave their legs,
would they die from the disillusionment?

-Cindy Kandolf
 cindy@solan.unit.no
 Trondheim, Norway

Newsgroups: soc.women
From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
Subject: Re: What has this got to do with dildos?
Organization: Motorola, CCR&D, CORP, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:32:47 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.160344.7681@vax.oxford.ac.uk> annan@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:

)> It's more of a revolution against rigid grammatical rules that interefere
)> with the intent of the writer to communicate.  
)
)This is a joke, isn't it?

Not exactly.  As someone else mentions, language evolves.

)> I also think 'data' should be allowed to be construed as singular as well -
)> 'This data is flawed' rather than 'These data are flawed'.
)
)Yes, data is often used as the singular, and dictionaries tend to mention this.

It's still often officially 'frowned on'.  I hope this changes.

)Could you tell me what concept is more directly communicated by the
)grammatically incorrect construction than by the correct one?

In the case of 'data', which I actually feel more strongly about, the point
is that a data is a single entity - it's more, conceptually, than a
collection of  individual unitary 'datum'.  There is a meaning in
the relationship between the individual elements that makes the whole
collection different in kind from any of its members, and makes it best
thougt of as a single entity, not a plural.

)I know I shouldn't have bothered writing this, or my previous post. It wasn't
)the fact that someone's grammar was slightly faulty that caused me to do so,
)such things are indeed of little importance, but the fact that this inaccuracy
)was actually being labelled correct and the correct version was criticised. 

The grammatically correct version:

'When people post to the net, they should know what they are doing'

has a subtly different meaning from 

'When a person posts to the net, he or she should know what he or she is
doing'.

Which is the 'grammatically correct' but awkward way of saying:

'When a person posts to the net, they should know what they are doing'

Newsgroups: soc.women
From: Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Pennsy abortion law q
X-To: MICHAL LEAH PERI
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 23:42:00 GMT

peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah Peri) writes...
MLP> stricher@masig3.ocean.fsu.edu (K'Char Aznabul) writes:
MLP> >My point? What's so onerous about waiting an additonal day?
MLP> >
MLP> Say you're a woman from rural wyoming.  Say you've travelled hundreds of
MLP> miles to get to an abortion clinic, and spent a lot of money to get there.
MLP> Then they tell you that you have to hang around the unfamiliar city to
MLP> "sleep on it" for 24 hours.  This means shelling out additional money
MLP> for a hotel and restaurant meals.  Maybe you don't have the money, and
MLP> you're alone and scared....


Michal, I think that it's a bit unfair for you to be saying that the
provision of informed consent and a waiting period is due to a "bunch of
mostly white, upper middle class males".

To partially explain, I would like to reply to some parts of your message...


MLP> Most women think long and hard before they "go under the knife" and

Nope, not always...  A *LOT* of women who find themselves unwilling pregnant
have as their first reaction "Christ!  I have to have an abortion NOW!".

This was the *immediate* reaction of my (now-ex) girlfriend from before I was
married.  She certainly didn't think about it, and neither do a LOT of women
who find themselves in this situation.  She certainly thought "long and hard"
about THAT one...

Mind you, I am not saying that *all* women are that thoughtless, but there are
many who are, and perhaps just enough to refute what you say about "most
women think long and hard".


MLP> agonized over the decision for much longer than 24 hours.  I feel it
MLP> it extremely condescending for a bunch of (mostly white, male, upper-
MLP> middle-class) legislators to tell a woman "you need to think about
MLP> this a little longer"

Again, this was just a little bit unfair.  While the legislators are, in the
majority, "upper class, white males," this does *not* mean that they are
ignorant of the problems of women just *because* they happen to be "white
males".

While indeed, you are correct in saying that the current regulations currently
ignore poorer women who might not be able to afford the extra day, so perhaps
this can be remedied by some sort of financial assistance for women who are
less well off.  It will definitely *not* be remedied by hurling cheap shots
at them, totally based upon gender and race.  Indeed, just imagine the
reaction if you were to impugn someone's judgement because the person was
a woman, and/or a minority.  A lot of men may do this against women, but does
this make it right for women to make such snap judgements against men, either?

---
Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                    "Neil Hull is GOiD"
ZOOiD BBS, Toronto, Ontario - The Zoo Of Ids
(416) 322-7876
---
 * SLMR 2.1a * It it now 11:02 am.  Do you know where I am?
Xref: sparky soc.women:14421 talk.abortion:29720 sci.med:14945
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: soc.women,talk.abortion,sci.med
Subject: Re: Numbers 5:12-31 [longish]
Date: 31 Jul 92 16:03:19 GMT
Followup-To: soc.women
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <1992Jul30.211604.1667@pwcs.stpaul.gov>
chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman) writes:

>I've been saying for months now that the Bible has nothing to say about
>abortion and how this is an issue we have to work out for ourselves. 
>Imagine my surprise when Tim Kane made reference to Numbers 5:12-31 and
	                  ^^^
>said that it showed that God specifically mandated abortion in cases of
>marital infidelity.

Brian Kane. Not that I'm angry...I'm flattered, since the Tims on t.a
are great debaters!

Brian.

(PS---I do have a cousin Tim Kane, and he's available...only thing is
I don't know his sexual preference, all I know is that he's a primo
hunk!)

(God, I'm feeling like a yenta today!)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,
Boston, MA 02215. True personal salvation is achieved by absolute faith in
oneself.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: noraa@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (aaron.l.hoffmeyer)
Subject: Re: Danielle (story)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 03:38:36 GMT

In article <rauser.711775091@sfu.ca> rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
>
>    The ending of Danielle is not intended to be realistic. The story
>moves from a realistic narrative to a surrealistic narrative for the
>purpose of expressing its themes in a more dramatic way. 
>
>--
>Richard J. Rauser      "Sonic 2!"
>rauser@sfu.ca              -what Guile really says

Rich, 

You're a good writer.  No one says you aren't.  Artists don't need to
heed constructive criticism, but as someone once said, "That, which
does not kill us, makes us stronger."  I think it was Nietzsche.
Anyway, I, too, have noticed that some of the premises and acts in your
stories are not plausible.  The ending can be rationalized after the
fact, sure (it was not real - it was kinda real).  But, why not heed
this advice and write several endings - one surreal, one realistic
etc.  Then look at them and decide which one is strongest.

Willa Cather did surreal, but she did it very well.  Joseph Heller
did surreal, but his surreal tore my heart out (and he told me for 300
pages that he was going to do it to me).

In the story about the father raping his daughter, I couldn't believe
the kissing scene, the father not recognizing his own son, and I think
you could have reworked the murder.  If he really planned the murder, he
wouldn't want to get caught.  Hell, the way he was murdered, how could
he NOT get caught?  Hey, why not rewrite it all - after the fact.  He's
being interrogated by the police.

If you really want to be great, then take your criticism to heart.
People aren't trying to hurt you with it, they're trying to help you.
You display amazing potential.

Here's a challenge:  You're pushing an emotional envelope, but you
don't let me feel absolute empathy with any of your characters.  Make
me be them.  Make me cry my eyes out.  Become your characters.  Be
them.  Feel their angst, their paranoia, their fears, their
frustrations.  Make me feel it.

Go, man, go.

Aaron L. Hoffmeyer
TR@CBNEA.ATT.COM 

P.S.  I don' get how murdering Danielle was more dramatic than just
getting caught.  Make it difficult for them to catch her.

Also, so far, you've written about a woman's issue - rape.  Your rape
always seems to justify a murder.  How much experience do you have with
this subject?  Is there any other subject with which you are more
familiar?  Sherwood Anderson, and all that.  Did you ever get really
hurt by something?  What was it?  Can you tap into it?

You and RICHH are two of the bright stars of alt.prose.  I think we
would all like to see you succeed.  I know I would.
Newsgroups: soc.women