From: hakim@bigq.enet.dec.com (Kamran Hakim)
Subject: Re: Please leave BAHA'IS out of this! (Re: Israel and Khomeini regimes)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date:  9 OCT 92 14:58:18    


hakim@bigq.enet.dec.com (Kamran Hakim) writes:

KH>I respectfully challenge both Abbas and Saied to produce documents which 

In article <saied.718585750@cwis>, saied@cwis.unomaha.edu (Saied*) you write:

S>[The rest of boring, redundant material about Baha'ism removed]

:-)

S>Kamran, you do not have to challenge me; I never said there
S>were any Baha'i in the Mojahedin. The Mojahedin's ideology
S>is Islam; thus for one to join the Mojahedin, he or she must
S>first believe in Islam 

This is wonderful to know Saied.

S>(and in the case of Baha'is, to embrace
                               ^^^^^^^^^^
S>Islam and leave baseless Baha'i religion behind).
  ^^^^^     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Baha'is of Iran have demonstrated BY THE VIRTUE OF EXAMPLE "death" as THE
better choice :-(.

S>The above said, now let me turn to another subject. 
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I am glad that you have been able to offer your opinion about the Baha'i
Faith and get it off your chest. :-) 

S>I have
  ^^^^^^
S>learned that certain individuals (who had claimed they were
  ^^^^^^^^                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
S>Baha'is) had joined the NLA.

When an EPROM Programmed, it too has "learned" Saied. We human beings
are also capable of being a biological EPROM, where "E" stands for
"EMOTIONALLY" rather than "ELECTRICALLY". Learning could also be the
result of unbiased examination and study. A painstaking process which
distances one from hearsay. Regrettably the content of your statement
appears to indicate more emotionalism and hearsay than true learning.
With all due respect there is too much of dAyjAN nApeleon mentality in 
your assertion to qualify it as credible.

S>The NLA, which is the military
S>wing of the National Council of the Resistance, is a volunteer
S>army, without any ideology, whose aim is to provide military
S>support for the Iran's popular Resistance for peace and
S>democracy. 

This is wonderful. Unfortunately NLA is by the virtue of definition an 
anti-thesis of the Baha'i ideal for several reasons which Mr. Hooshyar
Naraghi has clearly pointed out.

S>Now if an Iranian Baha'i is courageous enough to
S>take arm and fight for his or her people, I respect his/her
                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
S>choice. 
  ^^^^^^

Thank you for your endorsement my friend. However, I am afraid that there
is mismatch between your definition of courage and that understood by the 
Baha'is. While your definition of courage finds meaning in "taking arm and 
fighting for one's people", for a Baha'i: "The source of courage and power 
is the promotion of the Word of God and steadfastness in His Love." [Tablet
of the Words of Wisdom, Baha'u'llah] Where demonstration of one's love for
Him finds meaning in the context of one's faith which is defined as; "The 
essence of faith is fewness of words and abundance of deeds; he whose words 
exceed his deeds, know verily his death is better than his life." [ibid.]

I truly hope that you contemplate on the implication of the two quotations
of have offered above, since, therein lies the truest meaning of Islam (i.e.
resignation to the will of God.)

S>You may no longer think he is a Baha'i because he is
S>willing to sacrifice himself. 

You appear to have a rather primitive understanding of sacrifice. Consider
the parental sacrifice endured for the sake of one's children. Carrying arms 
and fighting/defending them while a possibility, it is not in and by itself 
representative of the deepest meaning of the sacrifice they are willing to 
endure for their offsprings. I hope the example I have offered above offers
you a fresh perspective on the means by which Baha'is could be sacrificing
themselves for their country. 

S>Fine. He may not care what you
S>think thought he is willing to fight for YOUR rights. A person
S>must be IN PEACE WITH HIMSELF AND HIS CONSCIOUS but not with
S>what Kamran Hakim thinks. 

Very true. Who am I to question your choice, or the choice of another
Baha'i? I attempted to offer the definition of what constitutes being
a Baha'i. I have also elaborated further on that by offering the meaning 
Baha'is associate with COURAGE and FAITH. You appear to have totally missed 
the point I was attempting to convey.

S>Things are not as black and white
S>as you wish. 

I humbly submit that people are different and their choices are diverse. What
constitutes being a Baha'i is, however, WRITTEN in black and white and the
distinction between a Baha'i and one who is not is as black and white (See the
above quotation on the meaning of faith.). Such a view does not, however, say
anything about people's choices, to accept or reject to live by the Baha'i 
principles, which, as you have rightfully suggested, IS NOT black and white, 
whose diversity is as vast as the spectrum of colors. I hope you see the
difference. 

S>Those individual Baha'is who have joined the NLA
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
S>probably felt more at peace with themselves. So stop judging
S>others. Do what you think is right.

Before you make such a conclusion please establish the validity of this 
idea not for the sake of those individuals, but for the sake of the
hidden implications conveyed by such an allegation to the confused and 
emotional masses.

There is a population out there who has been BRAIN-WASHED from childhood 
by the ignorant and vicious religious leaders about what Baha'i Faith is 
and who Baha'is are. Baha'is have attempted to clarify these misinformations 
and disinformations. The nature of my reply, contrary to your opinion, was 
not judgmental but informational. By the way, I think I am doing the right
thing. I am offering another side to this story, and I am encouraging the
readers to study for themselves and make informed PERSONAL decisions rather
than "I know because I heard!".

S>Let me add one more comment and end my reply (and my reference
S>about this subject):

S>The Iranian Baha'is must have the same social, political, democratic,
S>and religious rights as any other Iranians should have. I believe in
S>this and I'm willing to fight for it. The Mojahedin have always
S>condemned atrocities against and the violation of Baha'is' rights
S>by the religious dictatorship in Iran. 

As a Baha'i I am thankful towards such a policy. However, I could not
overlook the prejudice, implicated by the attitude you have displayed
in this reply, against the Baha'i Faith as a "baseless religion". There
are different ways to fight. One's tongue and one's pen are often more
effective weapons than taking arms. To voice your disapproval about the
treatment of the Baha'is in Iran would be sufficient in my opinion. Baha'is 
will OVERCOME their problems in their OWN NON-RETALITORY MANNER.

S>Although I believe that
S>Baha'ism is a baseless religion (just as I believe Marxism is an
S>incomplete ideology), I still respect their rights. 
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Thanks again for your support.

S>There are 
S>criminals in every nationality and with different ideology; 

This is a generally true statement.

S>there
S>were criminal Baha'is during Shah's era who sucked people's blood.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
S>But what does that mean? Shah himself was a "Muslim." And Khomeini,
S>the most criminal who spilled more blood and brought more suffering
S>and pain to the people also claimed to be a "Muslim."

I respectfully recommend you get out of your HEARSAY mode and demonstrate
this issue by SUBSTANTIATING your accusations.

S>Finally, you, Kamran, feel free to think that my ideology is
S>incorrect; it is fine with me as long as you respect my rights.

You are a human being and it is your birth right to believe whatever
you want, and it is my moral responsibility to respect you and your beliefs
as long as you do not make unfounded claims. After all: "tA mard sokhan
nagofteh bAshad, elm-o honarash nahofteh bAshad." I hope we agree on the
validity and applicability of this proverb!?

S>However, I do not expect you to fight for my rights.
                                  ^^^^^

I am well aware that I will not fulfill YOUR PERCEPTION of what it means 
to fight for someone else's rights. However, in my OWN WAY I am and will 
continue to FIGHT for human rights, yours included.

Please accept my apologies for the length of this reply.

Warm regards,

Kamran Hakim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian