HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Crime & Death Penalty Re: Perot ? (the thread that won't die)
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (beta) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:12:52 PST
Organization: Amiga makes it possible

In article <1992Aug20.142918.29322@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> robert@geoblue.gcn.uoknor.edu (Robert Lindsay) writes:
> [ McLaughlin group style rantings deleted ]
>
> Ladies and Gentelmen, witness the thread that would die!
> Thrill to the spectical of hip and trendy neoconservatives pointlessly
> bickering with hip and trendy neoliberals!!
> Be amazed at the the fact you wish this was '486 vs. '040 flamefest!!!
> Makes you long for a post from Jeff Young doesn't it?
>
> LET IT JUST DIE!!
>

Would you prefer gas, electrocution, or lethal injection?

> thank you.
>
>

--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024
From: ltf@ncmicro.lonestar.org (Lance Franklin)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Aaaaaack!  Take it to advocacy!
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:54:11 GMT
Organization: NC Microproducts, Inc.

In article <52003@dime.cs.umass.edu> barrett@scooby.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett) writes:
}In article <16173@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> zerkle@cs.ucdavis.edu (Dan Zerkle) writes:
}>Here's a hint:  If your post contains any of the following phrases, it
}>belongs in .advocacy, and should not be posted anywhere else:
}>
}>"... really sucks"
}>"Commodore Marketing"
}>"Marc Barrett"
}>"... technology is way behind ..."
}>"... is obviously better than ..."
}>"new chip set"
}>"Bahamas"
}>"cheap '486 clone"
}>... and so forth.
}
}	Commodore Marketing really sucks.  Marc Barrett technology is
}way behind.  The new chip set is obviously better than a cheap '486
}clone in the Bahamas.  And so forth.

No, no!  You haven't been paying attention...


Marc Barrett really sucks.
A cheap '486 clone is obviously better than Commodore Marketing.
Bahama's technology is way behind the new chip set.

-- 
Lance T. Franklin            +----------------------------------------------+
(ltf@ncmicro.lonestar.org)   | "You want I should bop you with this here    |
NC Microproducts, Inc.       |    Lollipop?!?"                 The Fat Fury |
Richardson, Texas            +----------------------------------------------+
From: andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CDTV is dead.
Date: 17 Aug 92 13:39:58 GMT
Reply-To: andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel)
Organization: Flying Cat, Inc.

In article <mykes.0cnz@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>more?  CBM told EA in 1985 that the A1000 would have a price tag of $1000.

>So, EA jumps on the bandwagon and pumped big money into Amiga product and
>advertising.  Then the A1000 comes out at a price of > $2K.  

Actually, I believe it cost $1295 for the base 256K unit.  Sure, you could
add the 256K memory, the external disc drive, and the monitor (which
is what I expect you did) but that doesn't make the A1000 cost > $2K.

(interestingly enough, the Writable Control Store was the major cost item
 that made the inital price higher than the target price)

>Wonder why EA doesn't stand behind the Amiga anymore?  

Yes.  So I asked.  (I asked Mike Kawahara, to be exact).  His answer had nothing
to do with price of the A1000.  You should ask either Mike or Trip
sometime yourself.

>CBM did the same thing with
>CDTV - promised an entry price of $700.  The machine sold for > $1K and
>was missing features (HW compression/decompression) that were promised.

I'll have to look up the initial CDTV price.  (don't have it here) but I
thought it was less than 1K.  (maybe only $1 less, though)


>Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)

		andy
-- 
andy finkel		{uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy

"The good news is that there is a program for the PC that converts between
 300 different graphics file formats.  The bad news is that it's needed."

Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share.
I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn)
Subject: Re: MIPS (was: DIR)
Organization: Qld Dept Primary Industries
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 09:15:17 GMT

In article <16q5irINN1p0@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou) writes:
>>a standard benchmark, and the standard here is Dhrystones.  For MIPS ratings,
>>you use the old 1.1 version, despite it's known problems with dead code and
>>hence dependency on compiler optimisations.  You take this number and divide
>>by 1760...
>
>Didn't people start using Dhrystone 2.1 as the basis for MIPS calculations?

Probably - but no one who's serious cares about Dhrystones and "MIPS" these
days.  SPECmarks are the go, and we've even seen a new verion of those
(SPEC92).

>What number do you divide Dhrystones 2.1 by to get MIPS number?

Don't know - see above.  "1450" comes to mind, but I'm probably wrong.

>Good article.

Thanks.  I thought I went on a bit long, myself.  I just wanted to clarify
about mips, and why we get such widely conflicting claims, for those who may
not know.


-- 

David Meiklejohn                  | Internet : davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au
Computer Systems Officer, QDPI    | Fax      : +61 70 92 3593
Mareeba, Australia                | Voice    : +61 70 92 1555
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:22127 comp.sys.amiga.misc:12938
From: hjalmar@cbmswe.se.so.commodore.com (Peter Hjalmarsson Sweden)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: A570 price
Date: 21 Aug 92 09:56:22 GMT
Reply-To: hjalmar@cbmswe.se.so.commodore.com (Peter Hjalmarsson Sweden)
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Organization: Commodore Sweden

In article <liam.05w5@durie.amigans.gen.nz> liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz (Liam Greenwood) writes:
>In article <1992Aug10.213202.15982@cheshire.oxy.edu> leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:
>>A570 available in Sweden?!?  Another CBM stunt, release the stuff in
>>Europe, keep the U.S. in the dark and a year behind the rest of the world...
>>great.

The A570 is not available in Sweden. 50 units were sold to dealers this
spring as demo units, and to developers.

It has *not* been released to the general public.



-- 
============================================================\\======
Peter Hjalmarsson     \  hjalmar@cbmswe.se.so.commodore.com  \\  _
Amiga Support Engineer >-----------------------------------   \\//
Commodore Sweden      /  ...speaking for myself, not Commodore \/
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 13:04:35 GMT

das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
: My 'fonts disk'?
: I don't own an Amiga, either.
: I own a 386/33 with OS/2 2.0

Then I guess that explains why you have no idea what "Fountain" is.
On the extra font disk with the CG, or CompuGraphic fonts, in the
System drawer.

:Yes, isn't that just what I described?  I list of fonts on the side, I highlig
: fonts, and a graphics sample of the font is shown.

Yup.  Except we get two listviews, one for the name, and one for the
size.  We get the example window, giving the usual "AaBbCc..." type
text.

And it's system-wide and standard as of 2.0.  :)

: I have **OS/2** ver 2.0.  Not Amigados 2.0

Sorry.  I had just assumed that because you were in an Amiga newsgroup
that you were familiar with Amiga's and either owned one or made use
of one.

My mistake, I apologize.

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :) :)
(: "...and here's Clinton giving the correct spelling of bong-resin..."  :)
(:	gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu			Gregory R. Block         :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: iank@microsoft.com (Ian Kennedy)
Subject: Why the A600? Some ZEN marketing VooDoo?
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:57:36 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.

Why the A600 now? All indications point to a release of new
video chips (and maybe audio) by the end of the year. Perhaps
as early as September, but I think not as I expect C= to
release just more re-hashed old technology at that show.

Again, why would they release this old-technology low end machine
when they seem on the verge of releasing new technology. Do they
think developers will code two versions of their products, one
for the old A600 and one for the new AA systems? For applications,
developers could release a dual-mode product that supports both
old and new video just like they support a variety of video options
now (DCTV, DMI...) but not the ever-volitile game market where low
cost and speed of developmetn is stressed. Why release a game that
only a few peopl can play. Only the "large" game developers could do
this.

You would think that C= would wait and release a whole bunch of
machines low end and high end, all with the new chips and encourage
developers to write for them while providing currrent users some
sort of fiscally sound upgrade options.

What do you think? Why did C= release the A600?
-- 
/* IanK@Microsoft.com		*/
/* I want my 32bit chip set	*/

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: rromano@ccad.uiowa.edu (Richard A Romano)
Subject: Re: CDTV is dead.
Organization: CAD-Research, University of Iowa, Iowa City
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:35:53 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.011334.16701@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>In article <34180@cbmvax.commodore.com> andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug11.034128.7073@sbcs.sunysb.edu> dtiberio@libws2.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:
>>>	What CBM should have done about the A570 is make it an external drive
>>>that plugs into any Amiga external SCSI port.
>>
>>It wouldn't work on most of the A500s out there without additional expense,
>>then.  Also, its slightly tricky to put a rom for the 256K of the CDTV OS
>>on a SCSI port.
>
>   Not very difficult to solve, really.  Just ZKick that part of the CDTV ROM
>OS, or make a Zorro II card with this 256K ROM and a SCSI interface for the
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Maybe the Emplant Board can emulate a CDTV as well.


>CD-ROM drive.  I would prefer the former, though, so that people who already
>have SCSI interfaces on their Amigas do not have to tie up a slot just for
>the 256K of ROM.  
>
>>"A new release is where old bad assumptions are replaced by new
>> bad assumptions."
>>
>>Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share.
>>I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
>
>---
>| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
>--------------------------------------------------


-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Romano				SPACE FOR RENT
Manager - System Development		If you would like to rent this space
Iowa Driving Simulator			Call 555-5555.
From: entity@nsq.uucp (cybernetworx)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Death Becomes Amiga!!
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:49:10 GMT
Organization: NSQ

In article <1992Aug18.143043.1@woods.ulowell.edu>, edmondse@woods.ulowell.edu writes:
> 
> I hope C= somehow understands the basic fact that noone will choose a computer
> unless there is software available for it. Look at NeXT how come there are
> versions of most major productivity software supporting this machine. Does
> it sell better than the Amiga? I don't believe it does (Correct me here if I
> am out in left field). The arguement that there must be X number of machines in
> service before major software developers will port there products over just
> doesn't wash here. C= must get off its *&*%$ and actively support developement
> of software from the business world, or ---- GAME OVER ----.

I agree with your points eric, BUT the NeXT example was bad ;-)  It's a well
known fact that Steve Jobs paid megabucks to lotus to do that spreadsheet
program for them.  (what the hell was it called again?)  And yes, you're right
it doesn't sell better than the amiga because of it's price... even though
price-power ratio, it's probably equivalent since it's a very damn powerful
machine.  Another reason for a lot of good, PD software on the NeXT is that
it's base OS is mach Unix.. a lot of stuff is fairly easily ported over from
SYSV and BSD.  Aside from that, NOBODY develops for the NeXT because there
simply aren't that many units out there.  As far as Commodore actively
supporting development.. I think they are.  They're pretty helpful from what I
can see.. and do a lot more then most companies. (ie commodore people helping
to answer questions on c.s.a.programmer, CATS, good widely available and cheap
documentation etc)  It's up to software companies to either license popular
PC/macintosh software from the original companies and port them over OR write
good packages from scratch. (based on research done on studying the more
popular ones on other platforms)  I mean there's nothing to say that MSWord is
a standard or even WP is a standard.. just be able to import their files, and
you'll be okay.  It's time for the developers to get off their laurels  and
spend some money doing a good product.
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:21878 comp.sys.amiga.misc:12851
From: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kelvin Leung)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Pournelle (and Byte) strikes again!
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:41:48 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

[Jerry Pournelle's article deleted]

Not too bad... I wish he talked about Amax II+ (and the fact that
an Amiga can run Mac stuff as just fast (or even faster) than a Mac).

and of course, he could have mentioned the bridgeboards too...

Yours Sincerely,
Kelvin
e-mail: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu
From: "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: 32 bit grfx for $299!
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:46:43 EST
Reply-To: "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com>
Distribution: comp
Organization: Canada Remote Systems


Like many users I have read the ad by Black Knight Peripherals, they are
a new company (At least I think they're new!) who have released a number 
of new products.

If you read the ad then you probably read about their promised 32 bit graphics
board. For those of you who haven't read it, here it is.
 
           "NEXT MONTH - Look out for BRIGHTSPARK, our 32 bit
            graphics card for $299. This product is broadcast
            quality with many features.
 
 That's right the ad says this card will go for $299. I called the company to
see if I could get any information on this new graphics board. I also verified
the price, which they claim to be correct. They weren't able to give me any
information on this new card at this time. They are going to mail me a spec
sheat once it becomes available. I'll post the info when I get it, unles 
someone posts it before me. It could be that the board is sold in modules
to explain the $299 price. We will have to wait and see. 
 
 All I want is to be able to display my 24 bit images I create. If this board
can do that, I will definately pick one up. $299 is very much in my price 
range. like most of you, I'm a little skeptic at the moment. So we'll just have
to wait and see what turns up.
---
  DeLuxe 1.12 #8947  I tried the rest but bought the best!!!!
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 16:39:56 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <al158305.714418027@academ01> <64421@cup.portal.com>
  <1992Aug22.152035.1698@usl.edu>

re: integration of fonts

When you install Truetype fonts in Windows, or Adobe fonts in OS/2,
those fonts immediately become available to every application in 
any size immediately.  Fine; I think we're all there in this respect.
On my Amiga, if you install CG fonts, they show up as well.

A minor nit-pik: Applications don't tell me what the difference
is between a CG font and a bitmap font is; a "CG" to to the right
of the font would be convenient.

As I use the fonts in documents, in the title bar of a screen, or
whatever in the system, the fonts always look pretty good on the
screen, at whatever pointsize, at whatever resolution. This scaling
happens behind the scenes. This doesn't really happen very easily
on the Amiga, mostly because the OS doesn't handle this very well
(inotherwords, it doesn't have the equivalent of the adobe type 
manager built in). 

On the printing side, when an application prints, it *always*
prints to the best of the printers ability; no one discusses
whether Cinal Fopy for Windows prints any better than Wro Prite.

The OS handles printing, and handles the integration of the
fonts into the printer driver. This is the *huge* piece that
is missing from AmigaDOS and the printer device. The "missing
link" is what makes most Amiga Word processor's output look
pretty awful.

When you use AmigaDOS, you're thinking screen font versus
printer output. When you use Windows/OS2/Anythingelse you
just use the fonts, and it looks like $1M on your laser
printer.

TomK@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: tony@ais.org (Tony Poole)
Subject: Re: CDTV is dead.
Organization: UMCC
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 00:58:50 GMT

barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:


>are.  For all I know, Commodore has already decided to kill AmigaVision, and
>has been attempting to do so as quietly as possible, so that nobody catches
>on to what they are doing.  If Commodore were to say "Yes, AmigaVision is still
>very much alive, and were are in the middle of a rewrite.  Here are some
>features we will try to put in:  ...", then this would show me that I am not
>correct in my assumption that AmigaVision is already dead.  This is the policy

Just three days ago, I read on one amiga group, c.s.a.misc I *think* a post
by one of the AmigaVision developement people (a Cathy G., I believe) that a
stand alone runtime player is to be included in the *next* release of
AmigaVision.

I would take that to mean it's not dead.

-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tony Poole                       tony@umcc.ais.org * tony@irie.ais.org 
Traverse City, MI USA          tony@cherry1.trv.mi.us * tony@cherry1.UUCP
From: andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: CDTV is dead.
Date: 16 Aug 92 03:26:05 GMT
Reply-To: andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel)
Organization: Flying Cat, Inc.

In article <1992Aug15.215531.3574@tronsbox.xei.com> tron1@tronsbox.xei.com (Kenneth Jamieson) writes:
>>Usenet is 'free time' activity for C= engineers.  Are you suggesting
>>someone be appointed 'Guardian of Truth' for .advocacy ?  Seriously ?
>
>	Yeah - not just for usenet - but for the Amiga in general. In
>a sense, this is what PR firms are supposed to do.  Just post some
>info whenever something that will "look bad" happens.

Sounds too 'Big Brother' for my tastes.

>>I believe he's demonstrated a consistant pattern of abuse of the
>>truth by now.  You know the old saying "Fool me once, shame on
>>you.  Fool me twice, shame on me" ?  Well, its been a lot more than
>>twice :-)
>
>	I know. I think that everytime I hear ..
>
>	"There is a radical new Amiga due out soon"

Then don't listen.  Oh, I forgot.  Your complaint is _also_
that C= doesn't communicate enough.


>>I agree.  That's why I put him in a kill file for this newsgroup.
>
>	Good solution. There is a bird that does that too you know.

I don't read the National Enquirer, either.   Its the basically
the same thing.  If you want to read it, feel free. If you
want to write letters to it, challenging each and ever article,
also feel free.  However, innuendos that to not read the
National Enquirer is to bury your head in the sand...be serious.


>>Again, I don't work for C=.   Also, I don't believe that Usenet
>>is an official support channel.
>
>	Hmm.. too bad. Have they put this to rest on BIX ?

Once again, I don't work for C=.  Is there some other way I need to
phrase this so you'd actually understand the concept ?

>
>>
>>Which is a truism.  BTW, the reasoning behind the statement is 
>>real close to the logic of a software pirate.  "If you'd lower
>>your prices I wouldn't pirate your software"
>
>	Hmm.. you mean that saying that it would be helpful to get official
>info is a federal offense ?

Real cool, Ken.  Delete the part of your message where you threaten
something like 'if I can't get the info I want from C= I'll just have to get
it any way I can'.

Which is different from what you are saying now.  I agree, official
information is good.  Broad strategy annoucements are good.  Announcing
new machines 6 months before release...well, that might not be so
good. 

>+--[ Xanadu Enterprises Inc. Lingerie, Consulting, RPG's and ANIME ]-+.sign

I've always wondered.  Do you have an actual connection to
Ted Nelson ?

>|             Ken Jamieson: uunet!tronsbox.xei.com!tron1             |Virus


			andy
-- 
andy finkel		{uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy

"Why wasn't C++ just called D ?"


Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share.
I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Subject: Re: New Machines as of September
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 23:09:56 GMT

>-Sorry to crush any A4000 rumors, but as of the September issue of 
>-AmigaWorld, Commodore is now selling an '040 A3000T complete with monitor 
>-for something like $5999.00 retail US.  On the otherhand, if the AA 
>-machine actually do come out later this year, why bring out an ECS '040 
>-machine? Hmmm, makes ya wonder....
>
>Look, if Commodore said they would be making several large announcements
>starting in September,  why are people thinking that these peices of
>"old news" (It was on the net about the A3000T w/040 about a month ago)
>are the big announcements!?!?  Is it me or is it still August?
>Everybody shut up and wait 'till September before you start yappin'
>about not getting what you want.

	The problem is, if an 040 A3000 costs $5999, whats an 040 A3000 with
   the AA chipset gonna cost?  Talk about pricing yourself out of the market.
   Granted this $5999 is a retail price, but the dealer cost of this machine
   around here is $5100.                             

							G.Greene

>
>Jason Nyberg                Amiga... The Eagle Talon of Computers
>nyberg@ctron.com