HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: grant@clarinet.com (Grant Robinson)
Subject: Re: Club Vertical
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:54:53 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.192659.25132@adobe.com> mparker@adobe.com (Mike Parker) writes:
>
>Next, they will keep track of how many vertical feet you ski.  Ski 100,000
>feet and get some free stuff, 

Vertical?  At Northstar?  Kind of ironic that they'd do this at "Flatstar."

Seriously, when I was new here (CA) last year, I skiied there one day,
without ever having heard of the "flatstar" reputation.  In reality, it's
even worse than people make it out to be.  There are acutally some bump
runs on the backside, but nothing so steep that any reasonably advanced
skier would ever have to check their speed.

>when you hit 150,000 you gt more free stuff,
>etc.  Cute, kinda fun to keep track, compete with your friends, etc.
>The one person who scores the most feet gets next year's season pass free.

[diatribe alert]
Whatever happened to doing things for fun?  Why has society become obsessed
with numbers?  Why should you care whether you or your friend skied more
vertical?  Joe Blo skis 200,000 ft. vertical.  Joe BloDry parachutes
203 times.  Joe Biker bikes 1420 miles.  Some basketball guy boffs 20,000
women.

And to think, here I was, blithely and ignorantly happy in having skied a
bunch last year.  How many days, I have no idea, more than 2 and less than
100 would be a safe guess.  Feet vertical? How about more than 100 and less
than a million.  Does this sound right?

I admired a guy who came to Utah with us last winter.  He would drop the
coin for a ticket, ski as many quality runs as he wanted, then quit,
sometimes before noon.  Absolutely no financial motivation or peer pressure
whatsoever, he may as well have been a member with a free season pass.
Kind of the opposite extreme of the people who spend the money, then 
calculate to the penny their cost per run and per foot vertical (I got 
17 runs at 1.75 per run, or 0.018 cents per foot vertical.  Maybe if I 
ski one more run, I can get it down to 1.68 per run!)

My advice:  choose a place, pay your money, and don't look back.  Leave
your watch at home. Skip the long range weather reports, and short term
ones too, if you're confident of getting to the hill safely and dressing
properly.  Forget about everything, work, feet vertical, blue vs. double
black diamond, and ski.  Ski until it's not fun anymore, or in the case of
learners having a bit of difficulty, ski until it is!

[End of Diatribe]
-- 
Grant Robinson -- ClariNet Communications Corp, Sunnyvale, CA (408)-296-0366
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: scotte@atlastele.com (Scott Elam)
Subject: Prices of K2 Extreme and Salomon F9 (92/93)
Organization: Atlas Telecom Inc.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:02:16 GMT


Wholesale prices are approximate within $5-10 (US$) and for a local
shop.  Retail prices are for the same shop.

		Wholesale	Retail
K2 Extreme	$230		$500
Salomon F9	$225		$490


I've seen last years Extremes on sale for $250.
-- 
Scott Elam                  
scotte@atlastele.com        
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: lskiclub@nyx.cs.du.edu (Lancaster SkiClub)
Subject: Gore-tex vs etc
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix (sponsored by U. of Denver Math/CS dept.)
Disclaimer1: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of
Disclaimer2: Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
Disclaimer3: control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 18:01:26 GMT

On the topic of whether or not there is anything which really compares
with Gore-tex there is !

Thematerial is Sympatex and it is becoming widely used in Europe. The
difference is that Gore-tex relies on tiny micro-pores to allow water
vapour to escape where as Sympatex has a molecular structure which allows
water to pass through its chemical chain.

The main difference between Gore -tex and other materials or treatments
has always been the breatability of the fabric, and Gore-tex has always
been the best at this with the closest competitor coming in about 1/3 of
the breatability, but Sympatex is just as breathable, and like most other
materials of the waterproofing kind, just as water proof.

Sympatex is slightly cheaper than Gore-tex and is in fact more durable, no
need to was in special detergents and does not delaminate like Gore-tex
has been prone to. Sympatex is also a lot softer than gore-tex which means
the garments are more comfortable and the z-liner idea is more practical.

                 Dan Gibson - Lancaster Uni Ski Club
From: Heather.L.Halstead@dartmouth.edu (Heather L. Halstead)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Conditions at J-Hole
Date: 23 Nov 92 20:45:23 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

Can someone tell me what J-Hole is looking like these days?
Thanks,
Heather
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: glenb@sr.hp.com (Glen Baker)
Subject: Re: we've got more snow than you!!
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:40:52 GMT
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (SRSD - MWTD) - Santa Rosa, Ca.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

David Veale (davin@hardy.u.washington.edu) wrote:

> Neener neener neener neener!!!!

 Oh yeah? Well my big brother can take your big brother!

> All you poor fools in other parts of the U.S. talk about getting snow?  We
> have 60" at Paradise on Mount Ranier, and the skiing is great!

 Exsqueeze me? Skiing at Paradise? Great? Contradictory statement (unless
 of course you're talkin' XC in which case I take it all back...) :-)

 ..glen
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: bassuk@stein.u.washington.edu (James Bassuk)
Subject: Re: Gore-Tex vs. ULTREX
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:30:16 GMT

ilevenso@scott.skidmore.edu (ian levenson) writes:

>templin@grayling.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Fred Templin) writes:
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I've been buying Gore-Tex skiwear for years in the faith
>> that it's the best waterproof/breatheable fabric on
>> the market. Now I see that North Face (just to name one
>> vendor) has gone to a different material called "ULTREX".
>> Has anyone had experiences with both materials which they
>> can share? Is Gore-Tex beginning to lose popularity?
>> 
>> -- 
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> 	Fred L. Templin
>> 	(templin@grayling.Berkeley.EDU)
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>I own a North Face suit as well as several items that are made of
>Gore-Tex, and I have found that they both work equally well at
>repelling water.  The difference between the two is that Gore-Tex is
>an inner layer, while Ultrex is a coat that is sprayed on to the
>fabric.  Some people tell me that Ultrex can rub off after extended
>use, but I have not found this to be true.  The only other difference
>may be in their breathability, but I have no information on this.

IMHO, Ultrex is not a coating but a true fabric synthesized by
Burlington.....Ultrex  is similar to GoreTex in that its pore size
keeps liquid water droplets out while allowing water vapor to escape

The NorthFace suit that I put on hold until Wednesday has an layer
of Ulterx laminated inside the outer layer......Therefore, it can't be
sprayed on.....  Ultrex is also alot cheaper than Ultrex

BUT if I'm wrong, then I'll not buy the suit and save $!

Jim




********************************************************

   Jim Bassuk, Ph.D.
   Dept. Biological Structure, Univ. of Washington
   NetworkAddress:  Bassuk@U.Washington.Edu  

   'Did I say what I meant or did I mean what I said?'

********************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: turtle@owlnet.rice.edu (Mark Edward Duttweiler)
Subject: SKIING SURVEY
Organization: Rice University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 07:10:27 GMT


Someone once said on this newsgroup:
   "Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one..."

It has always seemed to me if you ask ten different people or read ten
different magazines trying to find out what is the steepest trail or the
best overall resort or whatever else; you will get ten different answers.
This has motivated me to put together a brief and very informal survey.  
The people on this newgroup are very knowledgeable, experienced skiers,
and I am interested in capturing some of their opinions.  I will of course 
tabulate all the results and post them on the newsgroup.

If you think that this is a good idea, please take the time to fill out the 
survey and send it back to me.  If you don't think it's a good idea, don't.
Please respond by email only.

Also, if you have any suggestions for other categories, please let me know.
If the response to this one is good enough, you may see a second survey, with
the new categories included.

Finally, I must apologize if some of these categories turn out to be
one in the same for many skiers.


                                         Thanks for you time.
                                         Mark Edward Duttweiler
                                         Rice University



--------Send responses to turtle@rice.edu----------- 

  STEEPEST RUN

  Name of Run                  Area
  -----------                  ----

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.


  MOST CHALLENGING RUN

  Name of Run                  Area
  -----------                  ----

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.


  BEST RUN

  Name of Run                  Area
  -----------                  ----

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.



  MOST CHALLENGING AREA

  Name
  ----

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.



  BEST OVERALL AREA

  Name
  ----

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: sergei@is.morgan.com (Sergei Poliakoff)
Subject: Re: To all of you who call yourselves skiers...
Organization: Morgan Stanley - IS
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:07:51 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.122100.5638W@baron.edb.tih.no>, sveint@edb.tih.no (Svein Gunnar Tjoenndal,o92b) writes:
|> To be honest, I'm very dissapionted.
|> I just joined up with this conference, hoping to read something
|> useful about skiing.
|> What I found was this:
|> A lot of nerds talking about bars and hotels!!!!!!!!!!
|> You guys have really got a problem.
|> A serious one.
|> 
|> I'll be looking forward to any response to this.
|> 
|> 					Svein Tjoenndal
|>            Cross-country skiing, the first (and real) winter sport
|>            was invented in Norway by vikings about 500 AD. 
|>            (I guess you just didn't know...)

This is an obvious ploy to stir things up a bit, however  in a brutal
Real Viking (TM) way. I'm eager to hear Mr. Svein's comments on Vail.

Our nerdy & geeky  cheers to this dashing manifestation of Nordic
Masculinity.   

Sergei


P.S. On a second thought : Norway, snow, deer : this ain't no Svein,
this must be Santa incognito !




Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: glenb@sr.hp.com (Glen Baker)
Subject: Re: National Brotherhood of Skiiers?
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:32:27 GMT
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (SRSD - MWTD) - Santa Rosa, Ca.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Eugene N. Miya (eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov) wrote:

>>What was the name of the great freestyle skier from a few years back?  I
>>believe he was Japanese.
 
> Hank Kashiwa.  He's Japanese-American.  Another one of the exceptions.

 So. How about Wayne Wong?

 ..glen
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: marcush@leland.Stanford.EDU (Marcus Edward Hennecke)
Subject: Any skiing areas around Bay Area open on Thanksgiving
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: ca
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 04:59:10 GMT

Hi everybody,

does anyone know whether any skiing areas close to the bay area will
be open at Thanksgiving? Some friends of mine and I wanted to go
skiing at Lake Tahoe, but we called and they weren't sure whether they
will be open.

Thanks in advance,

Marcus
marcush@leland.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: rstern@col.hp.com (Richard Stern)
Subject: Re: colorado ski report at ncardata.ucar.edu ??
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:27:18 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

Someone posted the following about the Colorado ski report:

> You can get this information by FTP from ncardata.ucar.edu [128.117.8.111]
> in the directory 'weather' in the file CO_ski.rpt.
> It's updated at least daily.

Well, the file has been "updated" daily, but the ski report contained in
the file is still from 11/9/92.  Why isn't the information getting updated
to the current day's report?

Does anyone know what's happening?

Thanks,
Richard Stern
rstern@col.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: dlb@sunloaf.dazixco.ingr.com (Dave Buehmann)
Subject: Re: Custom Insoles
Reply-To: dlb@sunloaf.dazixco.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Electronics (Dazix)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:29:46 GMT

In article <l9z108=@rpi.edu>, halabuda@vms.ecs.rpi.edu writes:
|> Does anyone have any insight on custom fit insoles for boots? The guy
|> I deal with highly recommends them. If I buy one of those Skiamericards
|> (or whatever it's called) for thirty bucks, I get two ski tune-ups for
|> half-price, and the insoles are 'free'. I'm more concerned with the
|> effectiveness of the insoles a opposed to the deal.

DON'T pay $30 for a skiamericard.  They can be gotten for free at most
places here in (Boycott!) Colorado.  I believe you can get a much better 
deal on the card by just calling them up.  Before the free deal, I 
(regrettably) paid $15 for a couples card.  Even ignoring the new free
price, it wasn't worth it.

To answer your question, I just bought some new boots and got custom
insoles made.  I think they are called SuperFeet.  They do improve the
fit of my boots noticeably (the sales guy claimed I had strong pronation
[flattening of the feet] and that the insoles would help me a lot.  Many
other people have told me that custom insoles are well worth the money.

However, I'm now having problems with minor cramping in my arches.  I
haven't yet determined if it's just the new boots breaking in, the custom
insoles, or what.  I'm still playing with boot adjustments to try to rectify
the problem.

|> Any comments ASAP would be greatly appreciated as it looks like I'm
|> my new boots on Monday.
|> 
|> Thanks much...
|> 
|> ...Mike

-- 

Dave Buehmann         Voice:    (303) 581-2318
Intergraph (Dazix)    Fax:      (303) 581-9972
5101 Spine Road       Internet: dlb@sunloaf.dazixco.ingr.com
Boulder, CO  80301

Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: ahill@boi.hp.com (Andy Hill)
Subject: Re: To all of you who call yourselves skiers...
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:43:04 GMT
Reply-To: ahill@boi.hp.com
Organization: LaserJets by Bill & Dave
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Svein Gunnar Tjoenndal,o92b (sveint@edb.tih.no) wrote:
>
> <Classic flamebait deleted>
> 
> I'll be looking forward to any response to this.
> 
<chuckle> Hope you're wearing your asbestos undies when you
read the responses...
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: davin@hardy.u.washington.edu (David Veale)
Subject: we've got more snow than you!!
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:18:19 GMT

Neener neener neener neener!!!!

All you poor fools in other parts of the U.S. talk about getting snow?  We
have 60" at Paradise on Mount Ranier, and the skiing is great!

Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 02:08:49 -0500 
From: "C. Mark DelSesto" <cd1y+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: kneissls

Does anybody know anything about Kneissl Whitestar RS's?  Any info
would be useful.
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Subject: Re: Steepness
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:25:59 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Nov20.151802.21989@uvm.edu> waw@moose.uvm.edu (Mad Dog SkiDeath,send mail to Wesley.Wright@uvm.edu) writes:
>From article <1992Nov18.195849.10259@netcom.com>, 
>by brunette@netcom.com (Hal Brunette):
>> Goat      Stowe, VT                    35.3               19.5 degrees
>> 
>Remember, too, that these are average grades over the length of the trail.
>Maximum grades may differ. The upper sections of most of the front four
>trails at Stowe are closer to 42%, if memory serves. The attraction of

Yes, and Corbett's is 90 degrees at the top.

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: gsh@iti.org (Greg Halbrook)
Subject: Michigan skiing anywhere yet?
Keywords: Detroit ski
Organization: Industrial Technology Institute
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 14:57:56 GMT

      I am wondering if any slopes are open anywhere within ~6 hours of 
Detroit.   I know it is snowing "up north", but I called Crystal Mt and they 
said they had no base and they weren't planning on opening for two more weeks.
I don't know the phone number to Boyne mt/highlands or I would have called 
them first as they are about as north as Crystal is.  I am anxious to return to
skiing, especially as I was in a leg cast last season (A non-skiing 
accident) It wasn't fun staying in the lodge while my wife skied, everyone 
probably assumed I was a bad skier ;) (I am, but I would rather prove it on 
the slopes than have them assume it in the lodge!).  
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: cloyd_j@apollo.hp.com (John Cloyd)
Subject: My Favorite Wipeout
Originator: cloyd_j@face_plant
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:10:30 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA

My favorite wipeout didn't happen to me (yeah figures) but it would 
still be my favorite if it did. My friend and I arrived an hour early
for a race and he was helping me with my starts, which were not as
good as I wanted them to be. Over and over he showed me the proper
form, stressing how much time a  really good start was going to cut
off my run. By race time I was getting a lot better kick and doing
pretty well. My friend then proceeded to get into the starting gate,
give me the thumbs up, and kick start right out of both bindings,
landing squarely on his nose. Perhaps you had to be there (or perhaps
you have been :->). What the heck, it was the only time that year I
beat him. I attributed it to the good start I got.

                                                  jc
From: gt7469a@prism.gatech.EDU (Brian Landmann)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Place to stay, NE USA
Date: 22 Nov 92 19:11:24 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

I'm planning on driving up to quebec over the break with a couple of 
friends.  I'd like to ski a couple of days somewhere in Vermont.

Does anyone know of any cheap places to stay or have any room available?

Our dates are flexible between December 15 and January 3.

Please e-mail me at gt7469a@prism.gatech.edu

-- 

Brian Landmann        
Georgia Institute of Technology                   Why are we here,  
Internet:gt7469a@prism.gatech.edu                 because we're here.
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: jkennard@scott.skidmore.edu (james kennard)
Subject: Upstate NY???
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:02:45 GMT

What is the latest info on mts. opening in NY state...also, who got
snow/or are getting snow and how much...?
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: ying@netcom.com (Ying J. Chen)
Subject: Ski Condition in Vancouver/Blackcomb
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 22:30:24 GMT

Is there a lot of snow on the local mountains in Vancouver this year?
How about Whistler?
I am going back for Thanksgiving (Nov 26-29). I am wondering
if it is worth going skiing... Thanks.

Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: we've got more snow than you!!
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 01:30:31 GMT

>David Veale (davin@hardy.u.washington.edu) wrote:
>> Neener neener neener neener!!!!

Good.  Everybody: Washington's the Place to go.  Let's all flood Seattle.
Drive the land prices up, ...
	Oh, what excuse me?  We're already Californicating Seattle?
	Oh, well, Never mind,
CARRY ON.
Ski Rainier.								3.0

In article <By6uw5.Gv9@srgenprp.sr.hp.com> glenb@sr.hp.com (Glen Baker) writes:
> Oh yeah? Well my big brother can take your big brother!

Sticks and stones may break his bones, but words ....

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: hkelly@tantalum.eds.com (Kelly Shuldberg)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: National Brotherhood of Skiiers?
Date: 19 Nov 92 00:15:44 GMT
Organization: EDS Research, Albuquerque, NM

In article <1992Nov18.105007@is.morgan.com> sergei@is.morgan.com (Sergei Poliakoff) writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.153828.29540@edsr.eds.com>, hkelly@edsr.eds.com (Kelly Shuldberg) writes:
>
>>>>trying to picture someone like Herschel Walker,
>>>
>>>Not certain who he is.
>
>|> Great black running back.  Tremendously strong legs.
>   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>A *WHAT* ? Is it some kind of horror movie thingy, like the Hand from
>the "Adams Family" ?
>
>
>Sergei

Well, I guess it depends on where primary stress falls.  If we let all caps
indicate primary stress, and it's "running BACK," then, yes, Sergei, you'll
want to lock your door at night and keep a wreath of garlic close by the
bedside.  Or maybe you could just force it to lift something unusually
heavy.

h. kelly shuldberg
hkelly@edsr.eds.com
Albuquerque, NM
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: nak1@cbnews.cb.att.com (natalie.kelly)
Subject: NH SKI RENTAL
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:40:47 GMT

2 bedroom, 2 bath new condo in the North Conway NH area for
rent weekly, weekends, or by the day (mid-week, min 2 nights)

Small complex in quiet setting on the Saco River close to 
five major ski areas, restaurants, sightseeing, shopping 
and all major attractions.  

Condo is fully applianced. There is a deck in the back which  
overlooks the river with a wonderful mountain view.

Winter rates:  $475 per week - $275 weekend - $100 mid-week (2 night min)
               $325 Presidents W/E, Martin Luther W/E
               $600 New Years W/E
               $150 night Christmas & Presidents week (mid-week, 2 night min)

Week-ends - $150 - November, December (pre-season)


e mail Natalie Kelly - mvune!nak   nak1@cbnews.att.com

home phone 508 372-7232 leave message, work number 508 691-3776
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: National Asian Brotherhood of Skiiers?
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 21:48:07 GMT

In article <LAUNCE.92Nov18155628@medusa.med.utah.edu>
launce@medusa.med.utah.edu (Tri-Ungulate) writes:
>I decided to go for a thesis here in
>Ootah is to get a few more years of skiing (and climbing) in before
>moving on.  Of course, being in a good lab helps things loads, but...

Well you are in the school where my Uncle was told he could have Wednesdays
off to go skiing.  But then that was after he got his MD.

>There are *easier* ways to ski/hike/bike/climb than flailing about in
>an _ad hoc_ MD/PhD program, of course...

Yeah, he got both of those.

>Ah, grasshopper, you have not been raised with the Confucian work
>ethic -- 4 out of 5 Asian-Americans recommend it over the Puritan
>type.  heh heh
>
>Wow.  Cool idea Grant.  Go for it.  That's how I ended up here in
>Ootah in the first place.  School was secondary, when I decided to "get
>a real life" (tm) -- (not that graduate school in any way resembles
>real life of course)

Well!  We need to tell your advisor you aren't doing enough work!
Put some of that Confucian work ethic to practice!

>   >work ethic line,
>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Is this referring to water skiing?  Or the new, extended rope tow at Alta?

Rope.

>Perhaps there is a middle path...

Naw?!  Really?!

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			3 down 1 to go.