HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Mika.Paakko@lut.fi (Mika Paakko)
Subject: More results of The Rally og Thousand Lakes (Jyvaskylan suurajot)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:04:12 GMT
Distribution: rec
Reply-To: Mika.Paakko@lut.fi
Organization: Lappeenranta University of Technology, Finland


Some results of the second day morning:


SS 6 	"Valkola"	 7.43 km
--------------------------------

	1. Makinen	3.30
	2. Alen		3.34
	3. Kankkunen	3.36
	4. Auriol	3.37
	   Blomqvist	3.37
      (16. Vatanen	3.55)


SS 7	"Lankamaa"	16.01 km
--------------------------------

	1. Kankkunen	7.49
	2. Auriol	7.50
	3. Vatanen	7.51
	4. Alen		7.54
	5. Makinen	7.54


SS 8	"Haapakyla"	14.44 km
--------------------------------

	1. Auriol	7.17
	2. Alen		7.18
	   Makinen	7.18
	4. Kankkunen	7.21
	5. Vatanen	7.24


SS 9	"Jouhtikyla"	13.16 km
--------------------------------

	1. Kankkunen	6.39
	2. Auriol	6.40
	   Makinen	6.40
	4. Vatanen	6.42
	5. Alen		6.46



Results after SS 9 (of 37)
-------------------------------------------------------------

	1. Didier Auriol	FRA	Lancia		1.01.13
	2. Juha Kankkunen	FIN	Lancia		1.01.26
	3. Markku Alen		FIN	Toyota		1.01.36
	4. Ari Vatanen		FIN	Subaru		1.01.58
	5. Francois Delecour	FRA	Ford		1.02.45
	6. Stig Blomqvist	SWE	Nissan		1.02.52
	7. Massimo Biasion	ITA	Ford		1.03.05
	8. Tommi Makinen	FIN	Nissan		1.03.22
	9. Lasse Lampi		FIN	Mitsubishi	1.03.52
       10. Phillippe Bugalski	FRA	Lancia		1.04.43
       11. Sebastian Lindholm	FIN	Mitsubishi	1.05.36
       12. Colin Mcrae		GBR	Subaru		1.05.50
       13. Jarmo Kytolehto	FIN	Mitsubishi	1.06.26


More results later today.
--
____________________________________________________________________________
 _ _ _                 ____                        Mika.Paakko@lut.fi
' ) ) )    /         /  /  )           /   /       Lappeenranta U of Tech.,
 / / / o /_  __     (  /__/ __   __   /_  /_  __   FINLAND
/ ' (_<_/ <_(_/(_   <_/   _(_/(_(_/(_/ <_/ <_/_/-  All of my opinions are mine!
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: lallo@stsci.edu (Matthew D. Lallo,622,4577)
Subject: Re: F1 and Indy (Re: World or national series?
Reply-To: lallo@stsci.edu
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute, Baltimore MD
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 17:07:58 GMT

In article AA26661@sumatra.dcs.gla.ac.uk, roberto@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (roberto) writes:
>
>I think the biggest problem in claiming Indy is international is that the 
>drivers and the GPs are almost all americans, i.e. from one country.
>
>From the same point of view, I think claiming F1 is NOT international does not 
>make any sense. Don't forget Europe is a continent, with far more countries 
>than most others. That's probably the reason it has more GP's. 

Here's something else to think about:
How about the persistent stories of sponsor machinations in CART or NASCAR.
Specifically I refer to the stories of certain beer sponsors not allowing a 
foreign accented driver to drive with their team. If these stories are true
then it is a real disgrace and a perfect example of u.s. racing's xenophobia?
Ethnocentrism? Isolationism? Whatever you want to call it.

I find it hard to see how the international motorsports scene can be blamed
for the schism when this sort of thing is going on in the u.s.

Tell me it was all a bad rumor because I'd really like to believe it.

Matt
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: mclellan@maximillion.mcc.com (David McLellan)
Subject: Re: New Hampshire BGN race (was Birdie calls it quits)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: MCC Corporate Computing
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 14:58:00 GMT

In article <363@rehab1.UUCP>, dans@rehab1.UUCP (Dan Schein) writes...

> PS:
>     Once caller made a comment about it was nice of Ironhead to back off
>     on Sunday and give the win to Joe Nimacheck (sp?). From my seat (tv)
>     it was hard to tell if this did happen or not. Anyone know if its
>     true?

Maybe, and that's definite. :) 

From my tv seat, Earnhardt and Nemachek bumped, with Nemachek getting 
sideways.  Earnhardt slowed down while Nemachek got his car back under 
control.  Whether Dale did this to give Nemachek space, or to get his 
own car under control, I can't say for certain.  I thought Nemachek 
said Dale gave him room to recover in his post race interview, but I 
might be wrong.

David
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: pod@suite.sw.oz.au (Paul O'Donnell)
Subject: Re: Proposal: rec.autos.formula1
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Date: 26 Aug 92 23:58:15 GMT

In <1992Aug25.173521.708@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov> cornutt@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (David Cornutt) writes:


>>And remember, F1 is a world sport and this is a world net. 

>Wrong, F1 is a European sport.  I get sick of Europeans who try to claim
>that Europe = the entire world except for the U.S.  (Yes, they run a few
>races outside of Europe, but then again, CART runs races outside of the
>U.S., and the F1 fans persist in telling us that CART is still just
>a "national" series in spite of this.)  Just because Bernie or Max Mosley
>or whoever proclaims FISA to be the only worldwide motorsport does not
>make it so.

I'm not going to CART bash, I think CART has its place and I watch
it occasionally (I would would it more often if channel 9 would
broadcast it at sensible hours, but thats another story - see
below).  However I think a quick geography lesson is in order here.

CART is run on two continents:	N. America and Australia.
F1 is run six continents:	Europe, N. America, S. America,
				Asia, Australia, Africa.
				

This looks like a national series and a world series (question for
the viewers at home - can YOU tell which is which?)

>evolve this way?  Why, for instance, is there so much oval track racing
>in the U.S. and Australia, but almost none (as far as I know) in
>Europe or Asia?  A possible topic for another thread...

You mentioned Australia.  We had a reasonanly strong Touring Car
series (I won't get on my "CAMS stuffed it" bandwagon again).  We
have an F1 round and a CART round.  We even have an oval track with
a NASCAR and AUSCAR series.  At the pinaccle, we have HQ racing.
:-) Why are there no Aussies in F1 (or CART), I here you ask? There
is no junior open wheel formula in Oz that leads anywhere overseas.
Sure we have F. Vee, and F. Ford.  Then what?  F. Brabham??? How
about an F 3 series?  Any comments?

ObCh9flame:  Dues to unfortunate timezone disserences, US races happen
at about 4am here, do channel 9 broadcast them live? How about a replay
that night (even at 11pm)?  No, for that extra touch of realism, they
broadcast them at 4am, 24 hours after the event.  I bet they drop it
at the end of the year because ratings are low!

Paul
-- 
Paul O'Donnell                           |"You're just saying that because
pod@softway.sw.oz.au                     |you don't understand art."
Softway Pty Ltd                          |
Phone: +61 2 698-2322 Fax: +61 2 699-9174|     - Jeremy Fitzhardinge
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: dwest@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dan West)
Subject: Rahal/Johansson/Mario/Tracy
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 20:30:45 GMT

I find it very funny that when people defend Johansson they say that
he was "just being aggessive" when IMHO he clearly screwed up. I mean
where in the hell was he going to put the car? But when Mario hits
Tracy or Little Al or ..... he is said to be screwing up. Sorry but I
dont see any difference. I think they were both careless. I realize
there is a very fine line between hard racing and carefree driving,
but in Mario`s cases and in Johansson's case(this time) they crossed
the line.

I think that Bobby's comments were a bit out of line, and he probably
wishes he would have calmed down before he said anything. But I
believe any of the point leaders would have reacted the same way.
-- 
Dan West                                            ______   ______   __  __
west@cis.ohio-state.edu                            /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
dwest@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu                    \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
Go Bucks!                                           \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\
From: bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Galmer G92 Cd and Downforce figures
Date: 2 Sep 92 13:21:46 GMT
Organization: School of Biological Sciences, University of Bath, UK

In article <1992Sep1.150936.12827@phillip.edu.au> t9014143@phillip.edu.au writes:
>Taking '2cd' to mean Cd(drag co-efficient) does anyone have figures on the
>current crop of cars.

I don't have any numbers for F1 cars but ...

Quoting without permission from Racecar Engineering Vol 2, No 3:

Galmer Engineering Aerodynamicist Andy Brown has released the following
representative figures for the Galmer G92.

		Downforce	Drag	 L/D	Cd	Speed for 
							measurements

Short Oval 	3460 lbs 	1310 lbs 2.64	1.397	165 mph
Street Circuit  3040 lbs 	1070 lbs 2.84	1.141	165 mph
Speedway	2835 lbs 	 972 lbs 2.92	0.669	220 mph

Note that fuel consumption is higher on a street circuit such as
Long Beach than on a short oval such as Phoenix:  consequently
the car has to be set up so as to pull less drag.

By way of comparison, in the days before cab roof fairings, a
Cd figure of 1.0 was typical for a high-drag truck.  These days
trucks are down to the region of Cd = 0.6

The figures quoted for the 1991 Indy 500 winning Penske PC20 in
speedway trim were 3010 lbs downforce at 220 mph with 1075 lbs
drag (L/D = 2.80)

Brown comments:

"I'm always a little cautious of comparing figures from different
wind tunnels because experience has shown them all to vary slightly.
The L/D figure is usually close though, and I'm pleased to see that
ours is better than that quoted for the PC20.  Provided we're both
telling the truth, that is !"


			Andrew  Henry
Sempre  Gilles					bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: agwiii@fang.att.com (Grayson Walker (660-7949)(12/92))
Subject: Re: Recommendations for a used sporty car
Organization: AT&T Tax Systems Development, Maitland FL
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 20:06:16 GMT

Gordon M. Charrick writes:
>: : I'm starting to think about getting a used car to replace my current six
>: : year old one. I want something sporty but it can't be a sports car per se
>: : because my insurance company (Erie) won't cover sports cars and I do not
>: : want to switch companies. Anyway, I've been thinking of getting a Toyota
>
The *ONLY* car to consider is the MB 500E. Outperforms testarossas and can
be had for less than $75,000. E-mail me for details and BTW, this board is
only for the sport of auto racing.
-- 
Grayson Walker                                           CHC, Maitland, Florida 
Forza!                                            Internet: agwiii@fang.att.com
Voice: 407 660 7949                        Big brown river..... Tuli Kupferberg
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: csroach@eng.clemson.edu (Shane Roach)
Subject: Re: Belgium spoilers: sandbagging?
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:23:34 GMT

From article <kecZreX0Bwx_8EjuRB@transarc.com>, by Dino_P._Chiesa@transarc.com:
> 
> And another thing:
> 
> I thought it would be most interesting to see Schumacher on the podium
> after this, his first win ever, as Germany's anthem was played.  But
> ESPN cut out just as it was beginning, and just as Schu looked like he
> would burst with pride.
> 
> -dpc
 
I think Don Ohlmeyer was taunting us ESPN-watching folks yesterday.  Yeah, they
cut away at the beginning of the podium ceremony, but that's common practice.
The thing that really pissed me off(so badly that I nearly kicked the TV, then
decided to just yell at it) was when, ten minutes before ESPN's GP coverage was
scheduled to end, they showed Schumacher for about one second sitting in the 
interview room, a strangely perplexed look on his face, then went and started
the "Sunday Sports Day" program at 9:50.  That was one thing I addressed in my
letter to Forrest Bond.  Everyone in the world sees this, but not us.  Hell, it
could have been shown without running over the allotted time.  Oh well.  I just
can't wait to get the satellite dish drive motor fixed.  For your information,
if you have a dish and want to watch the ESPN coverage and see the interviews
without staying up till the end of the James and Murray show on CBC, move the
dish to Anik 1, transponder 11 when ESPN cuts for commercial after the checker.
There is a live feed of some sort there, and it's quickly reached from ESPN's
location at Galaxy 5 tr. 9.


Shane Roach
csroach@eng.clemson.edu


 
A
A
location at Galaxy 5 tr. 9.                                              
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: mchivers@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Michael Chivers)
Subject: Touring cars at Bathurst, Oz
Keywords: touring cars bathurst australia
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 05:14:26 GMT

News from Bathurst, NSW, Australia

This is a bit old (from Tuesday 18 August, 1992), but it will hopefully
stir up some interest in touring car racing (eg British & German
championships).

The following is from "Auto Action", August 21, and is copied without
permission.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Testing for the 1992 Tooheys 1000 at Bathurst (the worlds greatest
touring car race).

Win Percy gave the new '93 Commodore its first public appearance, under
the "watchful eye" of Tom Walkinshaw.  The car was sidelined with gearbox
problems after about 30 minutes.

The October 4 will have three ex F1 drivers - Alan Jones ('80 WC, Sierra),
Denny Hulme (67 ? WC, BMW M3) and Larry Perkins (a few drives with
Brabham in the 70s, Commodore).  Perkins may also run Wayne Gardner
('87 500cc WC) in a second Commodore.

The factory Nissans (Skaife and Richards) may withdraw from the race
unless CAMS (the local branch of FISA) removes the weight and boost
handicaps they were required to run during the Oz touring car championship.
The factory GT-Rs were not running with the required 1400kg minimum weight
at this test.

I'm not sure why the factory BMW M3s didn't make an appearance.  Drivers
for the team may include Jonny Cecotto, Roberto Ravalgia or Steve Soper.

Peter Brock did not take part in this test since his VP Commodore is
still being built.  His second car will be a VN Commodore (Grp A).

Unofficial times (after 3 x 30m sessions)

#  Driver           Car                     Time

1  Mark Skaife      Nissan GT-R             2:13.67
2  John Bowe        Ford Sierra RS500       2:13.71
3  Jim Richards     Nissan GT-R             2:14.88
4  Dick Johnson   * Ford Falcon             2:16.95
5  Win Percy      * Holden Commodore VP     2:17.20
6  Mark Gibbs       Nissan GT-R             2:17.85
7  Glenn Seton    * Ford Falcon             2:18.37
8  Colin Bond       Ford Sierra RS500       2:19.10
9  Greg Hansford    Ford Sierra RS500       2:19.50
10 Larry Perkins    Holden Commodore VL (?) 2:20.40
11 Alan Jones       Ford Sierra RS500       2:20.98
12 Alan Moffat      Ford Sierra RS500       2:21.50

* Car running to '93 Australian Touring Car rules.  The Ford uses a 5.0
  NASCAR V8, while the VP Commodore uses a Chevy NASCAR 5.0 V8.  These
  cars are dinosaurs, but CAMS (+ the TV network + Shell, the ATCC series
  sponsor) say it is what the public want to see.  These types of cars
  will be racing against cars running to the British 2 litre TC tules
  next year.  The Falcons/Commodores should blitz them - boring.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

There you go.  Any other touring car news from around the planet ?

Anthony Doig                  | E-Mail : mchivers@uniwa.oz.au
Corporate Systems Development |
Perth, Western Australia      | - When you read this, laugh -
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: andy@newton.cs.clemson.edu (Andrew J. Greenshields N3IGS)
Subject: Re: Proposal: rec.autos.formula1
Organization: Clemson University Computer Science Dept.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 01:31:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.232104.1488@ncube.com> bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:
[on World League Football]
>(thru the WFL) is now gaining in popularity in Yurrup and how the fans
>are starting to come over from soccer to football.  Likewise, there's
>serious talk by some in Yurrup to build Uhmerican-style ovals over
>there in the next couple of years.  Folks within FISA are becoming
>aware of all this and are showing some concern.
>
  To be perfectly honest, I don't think that Europe is in danger of
being overrun by American style ovals.  This is just my own personal
opinion, but oval racing, for the most part is quite soporific when
you compare it to the racing action Europe, and the rest of the world
has to offer.  There is a far wider variety of motorsports (at least
on television) in Europe than there is in the US.  For sheer racing
excitement it is hard to beat the touring car races.  Americans also
seem to have a penchant for watching cars get muddy, well let me tell
you that dirt ovals have nothing on rallycross.

  I think that the concerns of FISA, apart from the obvious egotistical
concern, is that if CART (or whatever they are called now) start to
run the odd international race, it will encourage other national
sporting bodies to do the same.  This could, if taken to its illogical
conclusion, result in a mishmash of international series with noone
quite sure who is doing what.  It seems that we have a hard enough
time standardising rules with just a handful of series, just imagine
the chaos if we had hundreds of similar racing series.  

  As far as WLF, from what I understand from people back home, it is
having a hard time drawing a big enough audience to make the series
viable.

  Anyway, all this is just my opinion, so flame away.


--
  Andrew J. Greenshields N3IGS    |  Some people can tell what time it is by
  andy@cs.clemson.edu             |  looking at the Sun, but I have never been
  [dxandy@cs.widener.edu]         |  able to make out the numbers.
-----------------------***STANDARD DISCLAIMERS APPLY***------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Vancouver IndyCar Results, PPG IndyCar World Series Standings
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 19:20:59 GMT

In article <715277710942@c00474-224wi.eos.ncsu.edu> jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu (Jay C. Smith) writes:
>
>Why was Scott Goodyear in a '91 car?
>

He only has one '92 car and it is still being repaired from his crash
at Elkhart Lake...it is supposed to be ready for Mid-Ohio.  Goodyear
could really use another couple of million dollars in the budget for
a second new car and more testing time.  Hopefully, he will be able to
find that extra funding for next year based on his modest success
this year.  He then could qualify with a little more reckless abandon
and those extra few positions on the grid, especially on the street
courses, make a lot of difference.  Goodyear doesn't have the luxury
of walking back to the garage to pick up a new car all the time like
Paul Tracy does.

Gerald
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Rahal's comments
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 15:41:36 GMT

Another thing surrounding Rahal's on-camera remarks
at Vancouver the other day that we've not yet touched
upon -

Granted, he had some time to cool down a bit whilst being
towed back to the pits, but lately the used-to-be-more-
professional ESPN crew have been awfully quick to stick
the microphone in the face of a interviewee immediately
following some on-track controversy.  It seemed to start
last year in the race where AJ and Jeff Andretti came to-
gether and they stuck the mike into AJ's face almost before
he got himself out of the car.  As you may well remember,
AJ used some expletives deleted that were not deleted.

I think the ESPN pit lane reporters have to use a little
better judgement in these cases.  Granted, they're doing
their job, so to speak, but I think they should take some
notes from the MRN Radio guys.  Just about any musclehead
can pretty well read the situation and use a little discretion
in their timing of sticking the microphone in front of a driver
who hasn'
t had enuf time to cool himself down, so to speak.

This very moment I've introduced a virus into your machine that
will immediately, without any warning, destroy those godzillion
lines of code that you've been working day and night for the
last several years to develop. Now count "one thousand one, one
thousand two, one thousand three..."

I'm now standing next to you with my mike.  "Joe, you've just lost
all that work with no chances of recovering it.  You will be fired,
lose your wife, kids, car, home and be out of work for two years.
Tell us how you feel right now"

bob
From: met@naucse.cse.nau.edu (Millam Tackitt)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Rahal/Johansson/Mario/Tracy
Date: 4 Sep 92 17:05:07 GMT
Organization: Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff AZ


My whole point was not to end these discussions but to end the crap 
like "He OBVIOSLY entered the corner wrongly" or "he should have done
such and such". It is easy to sit on your butt and judge these driverss
when the only pressure you feel is having to reach for the chips and 
beer.

The men and women who pilot Indy cars have proven their abilities well
enough to be in competition. No races are won without taking chances,
each driver must balance the cost/effect, under EXTREME pressure, for 
every inch of the race, decisions must be made in a split second with, 
most often, no possibility of cancellation after they commit themselves.

Not one of them was born a championship driver, every one of them had to
fight their way up and have all made mistakes. Fighting for position is
not just another stupid comment made by the announcers, it is the way
racing is.

Rahal has damn well done more than his share of removing the opposition,
as has every other driver who has ever raced. If you want to see some
real racing action get ahold of some footage from the forties, fifties 
and sixties. "punting" happened even before the flag dropped and went o
until after the races ended. Old man Bettenhausen usually won by buntin
the only possible competition out of the track.
 
Before you start spouting off and trying to impress everyone with how
much you know about racing, think about ALL the pressures these folks 
have resting on their shoulders. Sponsors want wins, car owners want
wins as well as a complete car at the end of the race, drivers only
compete to win, the only way you get press coverage is to get put out
early or win. Everyone forgets who came in eleventh or thirtieth, 
including and most importantly these days the sponsors forget. Without
a sponsor you are history, if I had a multi-million dollar sponsor I
would have teams chasing me, If Andretti couldn't get a sponsor he would
soon be just a spectator also.
Think about losing your job and finding the only place you can find 
employment being mcdonalds, yeah it would be comparable to one of these
drivers losing their ride and doing ANYTHING else!

Millam E. Tackitt