From: larocqu@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (JOHN LAROCQUE)
Subject: Re: Indie Distribution Discounts (Was Re: Jack Kirby ripped off?)
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 23:28:07 GMT

In article <1992Dec24.080904.13417@sol.UVic.CA> jcowling@ophelia.UVic.CA (Scowling Jim Cowling) writes:

>DC, Marvel		60% discount	(average of 50% to retailers)
>Fantagraphics		50% discount	(average of 40% to retailers)
>	- Love and Rockets, Eightball, etc.
>Antarctic		55% discount	(average of 45% to retailers)
>	- Albedo, Furrlough, etc.
>Caliber			60% discount	(average of 50% to retailers)
>	- Deadworld, etc.
>Dark Horse		55-60% discount, depending on title
>Eclipse			45-55% discount, depending on title
>Cartoon Books		55% discount	(average of 45% to retailers)
>	- Bone
>Image Comics		55% discount	(average of 45% to retailers)


Let's take some examples from the February 1992 Comics list and assume that
they are being ordered for Average Joe Comic Shop. (prices in Candian $)
We shall factor in the actual discount based on the chart above.

MARVEL        Conan #267 -        $1.60 x 50% = $  .80
FANTAGRAPHICS Usagi Yojimbo #38 - $2.75 x 40% = $ 1.10

In real terms, the cost of the Indie is more than that of the regular comics,
which means, in the case above, the actual profit per books are not terribly
different. While the dealer may make more money by sheer volume of Conan the
Barbarian, he can make a few dollars more by carrying independent comics that
the public buys like Usagi Yojimbo. And it is more likely that the same dealer
will sell out of his copies of Usagi than that of Conan the Babarian, due to
the much smaller overall demand for the book. That being said, money can
be made by marketing and selling books that are often overlooked - Bone,
as a fine example. Comic shops should not be discouraged into experimenting
beyond the big 5.

>The smallest publishers (many of the one-title wonders)offer 35%-50% discounts
>to distributors.  The number who offer 60% discounts I could count on the
>fingers of one hand.

Just a couple of weeks ago I found a comic called Ali Baba. It is an "indie"
and reprints a 15 year old comic with layouts by Dave Sim. Dave was nice 
enough to put in an editorial and Dale Keown inked the cover. It is an "indie"
and it is a real gem. I think that dealers should flip through the whole 
catalogue when they order, and find stuff that might interest their clientele.
"The Simpsons are popular, why  not buy some Simpsons items, etc". The best
dealers find stuff from the whole spectrum of the comics genre, and actually
make money selling them.

As for very small publishers, generally their products are not great, and
have to build up their following before they can offer any real discounts.
Comics are a business. And Cerebus wasn't built in a day.

>So it boils down to this:  the independent titles, for the most part, are
>unwilling to offer market-level discounts to the distributors (and,by trickle-
>down, to the retailers).  Also consider that indie titles are generally harder
>to sell to impulse shoppers (which account for 70% of comic purchases) and
>far, far more difficult to sell as back issues.

As regular stock goes, it's not a good idea to splurge on tons of Indies, but
when it comes to the regular clientele, every effort should be made to
accomodate their tastes. After all business is business. Why frustsrate the
guy who goes to the store every month for Cerebus and is told "sorry son,
we don't carry that title". What a snotty attitude. If Diamond and Capitol
can carry them, why can't the dealer order them for the clientele who want
them.

>THIS is why your local shop will only give you half the discount on the indie
>books.

This is understandable. But also frustrating. Cerebus consistently outsells
Savage Sword of Conan - and probably makes a bigger volume of profits. 
Yet, gets a lower discount. Real nice.

>Don't blame the distributors.  Don't blame the retailers.  Bill Willingham
>said it best:  "I am not your art-******".

E-mail me the asterixes you left out. As for distributors, my real targets
are the people behind Andromeda and other Canadian distributors. This gutless
fucks won't carry many of the titles that Diamond and Capitol do. One reason
why I do not have a complete collection of Wally Wood's Cannon or any Anton
Drek comics. They said "sorry, we won't sell you Eros comics - because the
police might crack down on us". Comic books make half a billion dollars a
year, and the distributors are saying that they can't afford to carry a
potentially offensive title. What a shameful attitude. The American market
may be just fine, but things here in London are downright shameful.

> He certainly wouldn't display Lobo in his Cerebus display (if he's one of 
> the rare retailers who plans to get one of those cool display racks Dave's
> been planning.)

A Cerebus display. Right on! Earth pig born!

>Next point.  Diamond and Capital City carry just about everything.

Andromeda doesn't.. Sorry, but it doesn't work the same from these guys.
I wish we had Capitol or Diamond....... sigh.

> to retailers.  If your local retailer says that he can't get a certain
>title, then he's either lying (in which case, go to another retailer) or 
>he's not dealing with a decent distributor (in which case, he's not providing
>you with adequate service, and, again, go to another retailer, and don't look
>back).  The distributors make them available.  Capital City even promotes
>them half-decently!  They make promo material available to retailers, free
>of charge!  IT IS NOT THE DISTRIBUTOR'S FAULT.  

Not in America.

>What else? Lemme see.  Indies are the most-listed items on cancellation lists.
>Why?  Because many, many indie publishers can't get their books out on time.

They deserve to get cancelled if they cannot put their books out on time.
I don't care what schedule they work under. If they cannont abide by it
then they will suffer. Suffice to say, the Image guys have to learn a few
things about deadlines. Their editors at Marvel did and they should too.
I heartily agree with Sim's speech at the San Diego con on this subject.
Dave Sim has sold - with regularity - Cerebus monthly for the last decade
(although he sometimes is late and sometimes catches up, as with Jaka's
Story). Dave made promises, Dave fulfilled them. Indies should follow Dave's
example, or prepare to go under.

>If the publisher can't get a book out on time, then (personally) I as a 
>retailer           [ and I as a consumer....]
>am not particularly interested in the product.  

>In your next point you say something about new retailers being told "that only
>Marvel sells and don't bother with the rest of that shit".  Oh, freaking
>spare me.  I've NEVER seen such an attitude displayed in the distribution
>world.  More like "Order to sell out".  Again, Capital City leads the way 
>with their "Best of the Rest" column.  

Only in America.

>Now I'll argue the flip side.  Reatilers should, and MUST, push independent
>titles.  

No! Retailers should and must push GOOD independent titles, titles that can
earn them even more money after they sell out of X-Men.
Tell them that professional writers and artists, many of them who worked
at the Big 2, are doing work for different publishers. I recently saw the
name Vince Locke in the Sandman comics. If I am right, he did work for
Caliber, right? And Ty Templeton did work for Vortex' Stigs Inferno, right?
New artists could also spring up. I have first printings of Milk & Cheese
because I thought the promo was so awesome. Give customer's the catalogue
to browse through so they can do that special order. Or they will cry
next year when they can't find those early issues.

>Businesses can make money on indies.  But they can't make a lot of money, and,
>sorry to say, it's the PUBLISHER's fault, not the distributor's.

More often it is the publisher's fault, but stores justifiably deserve blame
if they look over the last 50 pages of the latest Advance Comics. As for
distributors, I'm sorry for blasting all of them. Just to let you know,
many comics are not for sale in the Andromeda catalogue. Could be the 
publisher's fault, but I suspect that concerning Eros comics, Andromeda
is to blame here.

>-------
>Scowling Jim Cowling
>Professional Evil Person
>Creative Writing Department, University of Victoria (opinions disassociated)

-- 
***FEAR*AND*LOATHING*FEAR*AND*LOATHING*FEAR*AND*LOATHING*FEAR*AND*LOATHING***
**  John LaRocque       **  "If you're the new messiah... I'm going to be  **
**  marshall.law@uwo.ca **  the one to drive in the nails"   MARSHALL LAW  **
***FEAR*AND*LOATHING*FEAR*AND*LOATHING*FEAR*AND*LOATHING*FEAR*AND*LOATHING***