From: mike@highlite.uucp (Mike Wiik)
Subject: Re: ROBO-COPULATION
Organization: Gotham Communications Research
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 05:44:40 GMT

ratner@owlnet.rice.edu (Logan Joshua Ratner) writes:

>In article <1992Nov1.190741.18602@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> pkasiako@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paula Kasiakowski) writes:
>>(much multilevel quotes deleated)...
>>
>>Look, honey, you know what your problem is is you don't UNDERSTAND the
>>history of female oppression handed down by none other than MEN.

>I see, all men oppress all women always.  Somewhat simplistic, don't
>you think?

Seems like everyone's trying to make themselves feel smart'n'hip by
writing snappy comebacks to this woman's complaints. Maybe we'd like
to ignore the idea that women and men communicate in somewhat different
ways. It's probably not literally true that ALL MEN oppress ALL WOMEN
ALL THE TIME, but is does seem reasonable to suggest that indeed MANY
men have oppressed MANY woman thru a good deal of recorded history. The
sexism of the hip young man of to-day isn't as blatant, but it *is* in
our language, and it may take a very very long time before it can be
eradicated.

In any case, Logan's one-line snappy response to the issue blatantly
reveals his own sexism. Oh how scientific and precise we can become
when presented with a women's complaint like this... How many of us
guys would really make the effort to understand in detail (perhaps
even posing as a woman) what she is talking about? Is she to be
ridiculed just because she doesn't talk like you???

By the way, Logan, that wasn't what she said. It may well have been
what you THINK she said, which is not really the same thing at all...

>>So you better shut YOUR trap!!! Men are not even entitlted to an OPINION on
>>feminism because they all act like [person precieved insensitive.]

>I see, all men are alike and none of them deserve even an opinion in what
>should be an open discourse.

Maybe close, but again not exactly what she said. I can agree that men
are NOT entitled to act in an arbitrary manner on some issues important
to women, such as abortion.

>>THey whine when the least offense is made against their sensibilities:
>>"Ouchie! I'm being torn down" while they turn around and then do worse
>>to real women without even knowing it; it's an innate response.

>Again, you are treating males the way you claim to not want females to
>be treated.  And crying "my injury is worse than your's" is hardly
>going to win you any support.

It's sad what a history of oppression can do to people, isn't it?

>Far as I can see, you have only lived long enough to become callous,
>mean-spirited, entrenched, and insulting.

Sounds like you're describing yourself, Logan. Hey, just a few perhaps
overgeneralized but probably sincere comments and you've written this
woman (Paula?) off. Now she safely fits in that group of people you
don't have to listen to, eh? 

This isn't alt.strict.scientific.rationalism. There's flames and
arguments aplenty here. Maybe if someone, anyone, took the time to
think about what she is saying, *and imagine what must have happened
to her to cause her to think that way*, we might promote some
understanding and enlightenment on all sides. Perhaps you think she
sat down one day and concluded, just on general evidence, that all
men were bastards. I doubt it. We are all the product of our inter-
actions with others. No man can really and totally understand what
some women go thru. Not to say they can't try....

>You don't know me.  You don't know for whom or for what I care.
>But I'll tell you one thing.  I don't care for your tone.
>You want equal treatment?  Try giving it for a change.

Maybe that's the problem. An historically oppressed group, be
they women or blacks or whatever, achieve some equality and we
expect them to be instantly forgiving and join us in our mind-set.
It's not fucking likely, and I can't really blame them...

>ratner

	-Mike

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