HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: josh@cqs.washington.edu (Josh Hayes)
Subject: Re: Coaches (again).
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 17:16:52 GMT

I guess I too am against this, although I am not particularly 
interested in the INL anyway. One of the jobs of the base
pilot is to serve as something of an observer, in my view.
The base should be calling out carriers, calling for oggs,
pointing defenders toward planets that are under attack, and
so forth, because a lot of the time, the base has very little
to do but hang around with armies on board.

I agree with Todd that adding the ninth "observer" slot would
render INL matches something other than netrek. I don't think
the game SHOULD be as orderly as a coach would make it; there
should be some real chaos out there, some slip-ups on defense
and ad-libbed oggs and such.

Now, having SILENT observers is fine with me, that is, slots
where people can just WATCH without being able to send or
receive messages. (Of course, at some places this would provide
a de facto coach because the team plays in one room; an observer
could simply holler commands at the rest of the players. Maybe
we should just skip the whole thing.)

doctor
--
  Josh Hayes, Quantitative Sciences HR-20 U of Washington
  josh@mowgli.cqs.washington.edu             206 543-5004
  The harder they come, the harder they fall, one and all
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:37:42 -0500 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....


wildman@athena.mit.edu (Timothy Worsley) writes:
> mdm@pun.cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Moore) writes:
> >>"Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> >>
> >>Will you fight Warsong?  If you beat him I will be convinced...
> >>
> >
> >        Sure!  I am a bit out of practice but given my recent attitude
> >I should be able to handle a measly scout, right? ;-)
> 
> Exsqueeze me?  When did I volunteer to go blow up hapless losers who happen
> to fly DD's too much?
Your CMU alter ego already volunteered you.  Sorry, too late to back
out now.  Besides, didn't you used to be one of those "hapless losers
who happen to fly DD's too much" a while ago?    

> I absolutely refuse to consider facing anyone with the purpose of 
> discouraging
> all those little creeps who fly DD's all the time.  If they got real ships
> and banded together, they might be dangerous.
> I want losers to play me in
> INL games planet-taking in DD's.  And especially, I want them to face me in
> my scout without fear.  I *really* *really* want a DD to try to clear me off
> a planet to drop his 5 armies.  And I want a DD to try to run past me with 5
> armies, repeatedly.
Piece of cake.  The DD outtorps you 5 to 3, and has *much* better
phasers that more than offset your 10 points of reactive
shields--oops.  

>         The problem with the DD is *not* that it is *worse* than a
>	scout.
I disagree.  Except for the ability to carry 5 armies the DD is worse
than a SC.

>         The problem with the DD is that it is not sufficiantly *better* than
> a scout, to pay for the missing 3 warps.
I assume you mean the missing *2* warps.  Unless you know something we
don't...

GED: 
>       Sounds like you're afraid you might lose, to me.
No, Tim just doesn't want to embarass you in the competition so is
withdrawing in this fashion so you don't look bad :-)

	joe
	Purple haze
	Lamb, Leg Of
From: george@ece.cmu.edu (George Cebulka)
Subject: Re: What does Mucus Pig look like?
Originator: george@fornax.ECE.CMU.EDU
Reply-To: george@ece.cmu.edu (George Cebulka)
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:58:12 GMT


In article <1h7g0oINNri5@agate.berkeley.edu>, danhua@garnet.berkeley.edu (Dan Hua) writes:
|>Subject: What does Mucus Pig look like?
|>
|>Hey dudes:  This is an old thread.  But since Ged (Mr Michael
|>Moore?)  had seen several CMU regulars, including the famed
|>piggy.  I was wondering if Mike could tell us what the
|>heck Mucus looks like.  
|>

With a character name like "Mucus Pig", do you really have to ask?

Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 03:33:47 -0500 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Dogfight Size wars
	<1gul34INN36t@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu>
	<lyodav.724899627@vincent2.iastate.edu>
	<JIVE.92Dec21124815@spanky.ssc.gov>
	<ofBeLUi00VB=8NkUUt@andrew.cmu.edu>


Erik Lauer <el0g+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> jive@spanky.ssc.gov (Jim Ivey) {FillInTheBlank} writes:
> 
> >
> >    Ogging   Bombing   Planets
> >1)  CA       SC        SC
> >2)  SC       DD        CA
> >3)  DD       AS        AS
> 
> Wait!  If everyone takes in SC, why is CA the best ogger (ogging means
> ogging carriers, right)?  How about this chart:
> 
>     Ogging   Bombing   Planets
> 1)  SC        SC        SC
> 2)  CA        AS        AS
> 3)  DD        DD        DD

> People often fly CA.  Going home to refit usually wastes too much time. 
> Hence CA is better for taking planets than this chart indicates
> [probably right after SC].  

For bombing I think the CA should be above the DD.  A lot of people
have found out that scumming kills off of bombers is very effective
(much more so than dogfighting at the front line).  So they come
running to a planet expecting to find a crunchy SC waiting for their
CA, instead they find another CA.  You don't get to planets as
quickly, but aren't forced to run away either.  I've been using SC for
ogging more, since people have started using smaller ships for planet
taking.  Works very well against SC and DD takers.  And if the CA is
clueless it works well than too :-)


	joe
	Purple haze
	Lamb, Leg Of
From: kimd@gizmo.usc.edu (Kim Daugherty)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: problem getting client to run
Date: 28 Dec 1992 18:01:04 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: gizmo.usc.edu


In article <Bzzrsu.M7C@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, dmd39855@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Daniel DuBois) writes:
|> I type:
|> udp_client.sun4 -h 128.95.1.58 -p 2592
|> and I get:
|> ld.so: libX11.so.4: not found
|> 

Try using a client that has the word "static" at the end of it.  It should be
something like udp_client.sun4_static.  I also had this problem.  It is due
to X windows not being set up as the client expects.  The static version of the
client has all it needs included and does not expect to find files on your local
machine.  As you might guess, the static version takes up more memory.  Good
luck.

-- 
+---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
| Kim Daugherty                   | PhD program in Computer Science   |
| kimd@gizmo.usc.edu              | University of Southern California |
+---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Frequently Offered Clever Suggestions
Date: 23 Dec 92 16:10:03 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1h8ao1INN5lo@agate.berkeley.edu> sfd@soda.berkeley.edu (Scott Drellishak) writes:

>Oh, by the way, I've been playing on bronco quite a bit recently,
>solely in DD's (except for the occasional starbase ogg or LPS take,
>and usually not even then).  Even with cross-continent lag, and over a
>56kbaud line from work, my ratio is 1.28, my defense is 0.72, and my
>offense is *1.97*, and I've made Captain (the character's name is Gray
>Lensman).  Now, what was it you were saying about DD's?  I regularly
>kill players of all ship types (although I like to have help with BB's
>when I'm trying to survive the encounter).  Those of you who are
>convinced that DD's are wimpy are invited to teach me the error of my
>ways -- one at a time, please.

Hey, we never said that DD's aren't capable ships.  Just that SC's could
beat them in honest dogfights.  As Kevin (akira) is fond of pointing out,
dogfights have little to do with netrek :)

I would be making a guess here, but I think you get a lot of offense from
killing some unskilled twink, and then pick up armies, and get a lot of
kills from oggers.  However, without seeing your planet rating, it's a
bit difficult to tell what happenned.

DD's are capable ships, but without a kill, they are the least dangerous
ship out there.  With 1 kill, my ship preference is a SC or AS (depending
on how many armies I need) With 2 kills, it's a DD or AS (again, depending
on how many armies I need)  With 2.5 kills, it's a DD.  However, with no
kills, I prefer a SC or CA.

Brian
Organization: Doctoral student, Mathematics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:49:53 -0500 
From: Erik Lauer <el0g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
	<102958@netnews.upenn.edu>

paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen) writes:

>In article <BzMww8.K5y.1@cs.cmu.edu> hde+@cs.cmu.edu (Herbert Enderton)
writes:
>>In article <YfBYIBW00Vp6I7G0wV@andrew.cmu.edu> "Joseph E. Beck"
><jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>>Also {a CA} can phaser a cloaker to death in situations
>>where a scout would run out of fuel.
>
>Ask the tons of people who have tried to slip by me when I'm in a scout
>whether or not I ran out of fuel.  If you get phaser lock in a scout,
>you are still probably doing somewhere around 30-40 points of damage per
>shot.  Unless you started off low in fuel, you aren't going to run out
>of fuel.  And if you do run out, the guy is doing warp 1, and you just
>have to wait for enough fuel regen to fire a torp.

Perhaps the cloaker is an AS.  If you start off around 4000 fuel, and
phaser around 30 points I don't think you will get it down to warp 1. 
Of course you probably can get some help, but without any I don't think
your scout will succeed.  If you phaser lock a large ship with a SC, and
you have no help available, don't they usually uncloak anyway?




Erik
---=
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 03:40:40 -0500 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
	<1992Dec22.070234.7624@ils.nwu.edu>


mccoy@ils.nwu.edu (Jim Mccoy) writes:
> In article <1992Dec19.040650.28585@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> von@cory.Berkeley.EDU\
> 
> Hm....  seems we have not been playing much netrek since the DD etemp rate
> was changed Sandia.  There are times when DDs are the most common ship on
> servers with clue. 
We have different definitions of clue apparently.  I have never seen
this.

> DDs are the ship of choice for planet scums. 
I disagree.  In a clued game (where there aren't 5 armies lying
around) the DD doesn't look to impressive.  Also, in a clued game I
expect opposition when I go for a planet, don't try to tell me the DD
is good here.  The best it can do is try to go to another planet, and
you're playing Russian Roulette with CA phaser locks at this point.    

> In and out, 5 armies, fast enough to outrun a CA. 
*Barely* faster.  If you're going to their space the CA may very well
get there before you.  Also, the DD isn't fast enough to outrun a SC.

> Talk all you want about dogfighting, but remember  what the game is
> about: taking planets.   :)
Yes, but consider this.  If SC can beat up DD's, the DD doesn't look
so hot as a planet taker does it?  There's this little ship that goes
2 warps faster, that can kill it.  

	joe
	Purple haze
	Lamb, Leg Of
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Date: 21 Dec 92 14:21:28 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Dec21.093416.8891@leland.Stanford.EDU> tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen) writes:
>In article <1992Dec21.072631.26645@athena.mit.edu> wildman@athena.mit.edu (Timothy Worsley) writes:
>>	The problem with the DD is *not* that it is *worse* than a scout.
>>	The problem with the DD is that it is not sufficiantly *better* than
>>a scout, to pay for the missing 2 warps.

I've always heard the argument about DD's as being that they have the
maneuverability of a CA and the firepower of a SC.  Sounds like the worse
of both worlds.

Brian
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: mdm@harp.cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Moore)
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 15:48:34 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.072631.26645@athena.mit.edu> wildman@athena.mit.edu (Timothy Worsley) writes:

[drivel deleted]

>
>--Warsong
>

	Sounds like you're afraid you might lose, to me.

	-Michael )Ged(  (fight.... me....)

-- 
|\  Michael  Delbert  Moore     _   /|     Home   : (614) 471-1937         /|
| \ OSU Student  Programmer     \`o_O'     Office : (614) 292-7161        / |
| / Undergraduate CIS major       ( )      Email  : mdm@cis.ohio-state.edu\ |
|/-------------------------        U       --------------------------------\|
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: exodus@IASTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: Coaches (again).
Reply-To: exodus@IASTATE.EDUIn article <103117@netnews.upenn.edu>, botelle@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Justin Botelle) writes:
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 06:00:58 GMT

> Since this INL season is over, and my proposal (of which I received about
> two dozen seconds) for coaches had been deferred to the end of the season,
> I am curious as to whether this is a live topic.
> 
> For those of you who missed the original posts, or the follow-up or
> follow-follow-up posts, I proposed that we add a ninth player to INL
> games, called the coach.  He would not have a ship, but would be able
> to see the galactic that his team sees, and the tactical of any of his
> team's ships.  He would preferably have a menu with each ship number next 
> to it in which he would type in messages and switch via the mouse, or
> some other straightforward manner in which to expedite team/individual
> messaging.
> 
> Btw, I have neither the experience or time (and time to get experience :)
> to code this for next semester, which is the reason that I am posting
> a proposal and not code, and for that I apologize.
> 
> Is *ANYONE* interested in this?  Does anyone want to post follow-ups?
> 
> Justin



  i know all the isu clue (all 5 of us) support this.....it'd
be a good addition to the game.......



					Exodus
 

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: books@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu (Roger Books)
Subject: Re: Doorstop: running 24 clue hours
Organization: FSU nuclear physics
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 17:24:51 GMT

In article <102466@netnews.upenn.edu> paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen) writes:
>
>I think that the most an unclued person can get is Captain.  After that,
>you have to at least have some clue.  Some clue includes being able to read
>messages.  So, I would agree that at Flt. Capt or higher, you shouldn't
>need to respond to the "clue" test.
>
>Brian

Never see anyone play someone elses character?  Why not make Flt. Capt
or higher answer the clue test?  Is sending "clue" to yourself to hard?
I just hope the message is short, my "self" board is a one liner due to
my (much complained about) pc display.

Sherlock
Cirdan

Roger
books@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: dmd39855@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Daniel DuBois)
Subject: Re: problem getting client to run
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 18:50:58 GMT

dmd39855@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Daniel DuBois) writes:

>Well, Ive played netrek before, on my school machines.  My sparc
>account on my school machines died with the end of the semester,
>so now Im trying to get the udp_client.sun4 blessed binary I got
>from juniperII to run on the SPARCstation 1 I have here at work.

>I type:
>udp_client.sun4 -h 128.95.1.58 -p 2592
>and I get:
>ld.so: libX11.so.4: not found

>Obviously this is some Xwindows thing... Unfortunately I know
>nothing about Xwindows things. Were running OpenWindows on this
>machine, thats about all I can say.  

>Here's what I think the problem may be:
>1) Sparcstation1 is not equivalent to sun4 as my boss said.
>2) Our Xwindows files are spread out differently than they
>   should be, and the libX11.so.4 thing is something else,
>   somewhere else.
>3) Im a shmoo.

>In any case, Ive been describing this game to my co-workers and
>theyre extremely excited about it... Now I have to back up
>what I've been saying bout the game, and get this thing running.
>Some one please help me!!!


First and foremost, I want to say thankx to everyone that replied,
Im constantly amazed by just how many people read these newsgroups
and just how helpful those people are.  There were three possible
solutions given to me by various people: 1) move lib.so.4
2) change LD_LIBRARY_PATH 3) get static client

2) didnt work for some reason
3) almost worked BUT... heh, well, heres part of my session,
should be self-explantory:

/tmp 68>udp_client.sun4_static -h sturgeon.cs.washington.edu -p 2592
netrek: Can't find font -adobe-helvetica-bold-r-normal--34-*-*-*-*-*-*-*.  Trying others...
X Error:  BadAccess
  Request Major code 89 ()
  Request Minor code 0
  ResourceID 0x600028
  Error Serial #64
  Current Serial #69
/tmp 69>

Well, anyone able to help me with this one..  Looks like I got two
problems for the price of one.  Cant find the fonts.. (Ive
never understood Xwindows fonts, and never will), AND theres
some problems with Xwindows even after it uses the default font
(which I bet is some microscopic awful font.. seems its always
that way whenever I try using a new font opening a new xterm).

Any ideas?

-Dan
From: sfd@soda.berkeley.edu (Scott Drellishak)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Frequently Offered Clever Suggestions
Date: 23 Dec 92 00:09:37 GMT
Organization: Metaphor Computer Systems
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <ccN5031tc5yH00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden) writes:
)In article <1h7j3rINNcr2@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> adc@tardis.cl.msu.edu writes:
)>Has anyone suggested a mod whereby ships that blowup with more fuel do
)>more dammage than ships that have little fuel?
)
)This was done on bezier for a little while (along with the "shrapnel" mod?)
)Not sure how popular it was.  It puts a dent in ogging.

Yeah, this was on Wednesdays, for about a month before The End.  The
idea I had was (bearing in mind I think ogging is too easy), "instead
of letting a bad guy dump his fuel tanks into you (as fuel) and then
blow up with full force, maybe he should have to choose between (a)
firing at you, or (b) blowing up on you".  I'd be thrilled if some other
server would implement this as a theme night -- there are far too few
servers with any kind of interesting mods nowadays.  Sturgeon excepted,
of course -- there are almost *too* *many* mods on sturgeon to tell
how any given mod affects play.

By the way, why can't I refit on bronco?  Do I need to use the RSA
client?  When will bronco upgrade to the sturgeon standard?

(hint: if you see me sending these messages on your favorite server,
I'm pulling your leg).

Oh, by the way, I've been playing on bronco quite a bit recently,
solely in DD's (except for the occasional starbase ogg or LPS take,
and usually not even then).  Even with cross-continent lag, and over a
56kbaud line from work, my ratio is 1.28, my defense is 0.72, and my
offense is *1.97*, and I've made Captain (the character's name is Gray
Lensman).  Now, what was it you were saying about DD's?  I regularly
kill players of all ship types (although I like to have help with BB's
when I'm trying to survive the encounter).  Those of you who are
convinced that DD's are wimpy are invited to teach me the error of my
ways -- one at a time, please.
-- 
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Scott Drellishak   sfd@neuromancer.metaphor.com                          |
|                "Spumco ... the Danes call it quality."                   |
\--------------------------------------------------------------------------/
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: genie@netcom.com (gene choi)
Subject: Me, and future INL games
Keywords: INL Ginger games subs ogg ogg ogg take take take
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 21:50:13 GMT


I would at this time like to say that I am not on any INL team, nor
do I want to be in any.  I'm sick and tired of looking for decent
machines to play on.  It seems the web sun 3/50's have become
worse with time.  I'd like to play for a Berkeley team next semester,
but it seems the machine problem will only get worse.

Anyway, if any team wants me to fill in as a sub for a game or two,
I'll try to make it.  But don't expect much from the sun 3.

Gene
aka Ginger, etc
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 04:21:18 -0500 
From: Jeff Rosenfeld <jdr+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Dogfight Size wars
	<lyodav.724990364@du139-203.cc.iastate.edu>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 22-Dec-92 Re: Dogfight Size wars
Sun God@iastate.edu (4263)

> PS. I think that DDs should have 90 shields/hull, but only do 90 pts explosion
> damage. Of course this change will never happen, as Netrekkers are more 
> reactionary than Communists! If you look at the ship tables, it makes sense.


Translation:  I think DDs are the best ship, but we need to improve them.

ZZnew guy
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek