From: hyper@ecf.toronto.edu (Hypersonic CFD Combust Diag)
Subject: Re: AlpaLeb V 1.0
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 13:59:17 GMT

In article <NMOUAWAD.92Oct5151412@neumann.waterloo.edu> nmouawad@waterloo.edu (Naji Mouawad) writes:

> All criteria so far are political. When someoen says: "Lebanese,
> Syrian, Palestenian and Jordanian are grouped together" I must ask by
> whom and to which end ? Furthermore you say: "being an attempt to
> distance the lebanese from the Arabic origin/environment". Once again
> a political statement.

> Which origin ? Which environment ? You seems to have a political
> image (not only political, cultural and maybe even religious) in mind.
> This is fine. It is not necessarily mine.
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I beg to differ on this one. It is amazing sometimes how some of
us have a very, and I mean very, short memory; when the difference
between two incongruous statements is one day.

The following appeared in the article #6650

> iza semmet lahje 
> legha, ya@neh @Tayta uwweh siyessiyeh! iza anna ellet beHke
> el-lebneneh wel-suriyek byeHko el-sureh ma@-enno el-lebnene wel-sureh
> aribin la ba@dun (metl-l faranceh wel belgikeh) suu bkuun @melet?
> bkuun await el-fare' el-siyesseh beyn lebnen w-surriyah........

> khuulaSit el-mawduu@ siyassiyeh mesh lughawiyeh.

Obviuosly, a political image as well as a cultural one were on your mind.
And that's why you received the kind of response you did to this move.

Was there a religious motiviation on my mind?.  The answer is no.
Otherwise, I would not advocate the search for a temporary,
comprehensive transliteration of the ARABIC alphabet until 
a more permanent and serious solution is found.  Had
your effort been introduced as merely a transliteration of the
ARABIC alphabet (without these language, dialect, Lebanese-Latin
alphabet discussions) it would have found a much better reception.
I do remember that you personally once introduced such a set, and
I do not recall that it stirred up such trouble.  Doesn't this tell
you something about the way this new one was introduced???!!!


As to your above questions: origin, environment, the critereon of 
difference or agreement between the different languages, and so on 
...These are the types of discussions we call in arabic "ni'ash bizanti",
they lead to nowhere and certainly I do not have the time to
sit down and start philosophizing about such matters.


> I am saying let me use/speak/talk/ and teach Lebanese the language the
              ^^^^^^
> culture and the traditions. 


I am sorry, but I do not understand this "let me".  I mean this matter 
concerns me as much as it concerns you and I am as much lebanese
as you are trying to show me you are.
It is rather obvious that everytime an individual shows a point of 
view that contradicts with  the aims of some of the political groups,
one is readily execluded  as being a representative of anti-lebanese
goals (usually pan-arabism).  And when that is done enough times, it will
 achieve its objective of discrediting the opposition.

As to the practice of all of the above mentioned items I do not think
it was ever objected to.  But not as to alter them to fit
sombody's political views.  The language, as was mentioned a
few times already, it is an accent of a broader dialect of the
arabic language.  iI is a dialect we share with the inhabitants 
of the neighbouring countries and we should not create any barriers
distancing ourselves from them for political gains.
 
 
> This is the most fundamental Human Right: that of freedom of speech
> and associations. I know that most countries of the Middle-East
> (except for Egypt, Israel, Lebanon and more recently Morocco) did not
> sign the Universal Declarations of Human Rights. It boils down to
> values and wisdom: you either accept to partake with the views of
> other or you choose to impose you own on them. As far as I can tell
> the History of the Arabs of Lebanon has been of the later kind.

> Let those of you who believe in Arabism prove me wrong, not in words
> ... in action.

> naji.

Human Rights!!!...I guess you have heard of "Darabne w-baka saba'ne wi-shtaka".
The above is the perfect example.  The lebanese as we speak it, is as much
mine as it is yours.  Meaning, when you are altering it
you are infringing upon my rights when u do not take my objections
to it seriously.  First, by attempting to define the lebanese accent
as a language you have differentiated it from the arabic language. Second,
when you try to change the alphabet you have deprived me of my link
to my heritage ( and u spoke of freedom of association!!!).  And since we
do speak the lebanese tongue in our daily practice, before you know it 
the Arabic language will become  just another foreign language.  

And please Naji, stop the kind of collective judgements displayed above.

If you (those advocating "lebnanizing-latinizing" our spoken tongue)
really feel that far apart from the rest of us and want to make that
perfectly clear, I have a proposal for you that No one will have the right
to object to (well, I am sure you will always find that odd someone; 
and I do not mean Khaled :)). Why not revive the Phoenician language 
as being your own unique language which will make a loud statement about 
who you are ( As a matter of fact, I will be seriously interested in learning 
it.  Well, there will be no objections as long as nobody pushes to make it THE
official language of Lebanon).  If you look at it objectively, it is not 
that difficult...The jews have reinstated the Hebrew language after a 
couple of thousand of years.


I think the point has been driven home and I see no sense in "dilly-dallying"
on this matter any further.