HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tgl+@cs.cmu.edu (Tom Lane)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.functional
Subject: Re: Looking for tutorial on ML (found one!)
Keywords: ML, SML, introduction
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:48:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.Bu0HDJ.JKy.2
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

I asked:
> Where might I find an introduction to ML (preferably the SML/NJ variant)?

A couple of kind souls recommended Robert Harper's tech report "Introduction
to Standard ML", which is about 100pp and is exactly what I needed.

It's available in LaTeX format by FTP from princeton.edu.  Fetch all the
files in /pub/ml/incoming/harper-notes, and run main.tex thru LaTeX.  (An
output main.dvi file is already there, but it wouldn't display on my system.
Your mileage may vary.)

			thanks to all, tom lane
From: bharat@acsu.buffalo.edu (Bharat Jayaraman)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.functional
Subject: Re: Nondeterministic expressions
Date: 28 Aug 92 21:44:36 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci

In message <2006@dutiws.tudelft.nl>, dated 21 Aug 92 09:57:03 GMT,
klooster@dutiws.tudelft.nl (Marnix Klooster) writes:

> ...
>
>I have been thinking a bit about what I called "nondeterministic
>expressions", i.e. expressions that can have any number of values
>(zero, one, or more). A nondeterministic expression is entirely
>defined by the set of its possible values.
>
>It occurred to me that such expressions could be used to develop
>a "refinement calculus" for functional languages, by defining
>a relation  >>  (pronounced "refines to") like this:
>
>  E >> F == The set of values  F  can have is a subset of the set
>            of values  E  can have
>
>  ...

In our 1987 FPLCA paper, David Plaisted and I introduced the notation

   E contains F

with precisely the above semantics.  When there are multiple assertions of 
the form

   E contains F1	
   ...
   E contains Fk	

we defined the semantics of E as F1 U ... U Fk.   This paradigm may be
called subset-equational programming.   In our 1989 NACLP paper, we 
considered the possibility of conditional assertions as well, e.g.

   E contains F   :-  condition

where the condition can be stated in terms of relational (Prolog-like) 
clauses.  This paradigm may be called subset-relational progamming.  The 
following papers describe various aspects of these paradigms---semantics, 
application and implementation.  

1.Functional Programming with Sets, B.Jayaraman & D.A. Plaisted, Proc.
	Functional Programming Languages and Computer Architecture, 1987,
	Springer LNCS 274, pp. 194-210.
2.Subset-logic Programming: Application and Implementation, B.Jayaraman and
	 A. Nair, Proc. 5th Intl. Conf. on Logic Prog., pp. 843-858, 
	MIT Press, 1988.
3.Programming with Equations, Subsets and Relations, B.Jayaraman & D.A. 
	Plaisted, Proc. N. Amer. Conf.  on Logic Programming,  pp. 1051-1068, 
	MIT Press, 1989. 
4.Broader Forms of Logic Programming, B. Jayaraman, SUNY-Buffalo, TR 91-11.
5.Implementation of Subset-Equational Programs, B. Jayaraman, Journal of Logic
	Programming, vol. 12, pp. 299-324,  1992.
6. Set Construtors, Finite Sets, and Logical Semantics, D. Jana and 
	B. Jayaraman,  SUNY-Buffalo TR, 1992.
From: fjh@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Fergus James HENDERSON)
Subject: Re: pairs vs. triples
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:45:26 GMT

butrfeld@swift.cs.tcd.ie writes:

>Can anyone explain the following aspect of the Miranda and Haskell type
>systems that I find annoying ? Is there a theoretical reason for it ?
>
>pairs, triples, quintuples, etc.. are _distinct_ types. In particular,
>(a,(b,c)) != ((a,b),c) != (a,b,c).

A practical reason is to give the implementation freedom to implement
triples etc. as efficiently as possible. Requiring (a,b,c) to be stored
in the same manner as (a,(b,c)) might require an extra level of indirection
(and type equivalence usually implies storage equivalence).

Theoretically I see no reason why (a,b,c) should be required to be
equal to say (a,(b,c)). That seems like implementation details to me.
It's also very assymetric - you have to require either left-pairing
or right-pairing, and there is no obvious reason to prefer one over the
other. It makes perfect sense to me that (a,b,c) is quite simply not a
pair!

-- 
Fergus Henderson             fjh@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU      
This .signature virus is a self-referential statement that is true - but 
you will only be able to consistently believe it if you copy it to your own
.signature file!
From: tgl+@cs.cmu.edu (Tom Lane)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.functional
Subject: Looking for tutorial on ML
Keywords: ML, SML, introduction
Date: 28 Aug 92 21:52:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.BtprEo.IMp.2
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

Where might I find an introduction to ML (preferably the SML/NJ variant)?
I don't really want to go out and buy a textbook yet, as I'm just trying to
evaluate the language and see if it will do what I want.  A journal article
or FTPable tech report would be ideal.

			thanks, tom lane
Newsgroups: comp.lang.functional
From: zweije@slc5 (Vincent Zweije)
Subject: Re: pairs vs. triples
Organization: Department Of Mathematics and Computer Science
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 06:28:37 GMT

Andrew Butterfield writes:

>Can anyone explain the following aspect of the Miranda and Haskell type
>systems that I find annoying ? Is there a theoretical reason for it ?

>pairs, triples, quintuples, etc.. are _distinct_ types. In particular,
>(a,(b,c)) != ((a,b),c) != (a,b,c).

Fergus James HENDERSON replies:

>Theoretically I see no reason why (a,b,c) should be required to be
>equal to say (a,(b,c)). That seems like implementation details to me.
>It's also very assymetric - you have to require either left-pairing
>or right-pairing, and there is no obvious reason to prefer one over the
>other. It makes perfect sense to me that (a,b,c) is quite simply not a
>pair!

Of course, it is also impossible to let ((a,b),c) = (a,(b,c)), unless
you want to end up having a nondeterministic language. For if a
function expecting a pair were applied to such a thing, you would never
know whether to match its argument with ((a,b),c) or (a,(b,c)).

                                                               Vincent.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.functional
Subject: need `ML for Working Programmer'
From: dresler@cabell.vcu.edu (Dan Resler)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 16:36:35 GMT
Organization: Virginia Commonwealth University
Keywords: ML


I have just been told by a representative of Cambridge University
Press that the _entire_ printing of `ML for the Working Programmer'
has been "frozen" indefinitely (i.e. they're not shipping and they
don't know why or when they'll ship again). Does anyone know why or for 
how long they'll be unavailable? I was planning on using it for one of
my texts this term; can anyone suggest a bookstore that might have
a few copies and be willing to ship? Thanks.

h
-- 
Dan Resler                             
Dept. of Mathematical Sciences        email: dresler@cabell.vcu.edu
Virginia Commonwealth University
Richmond, Virginia, USA 23284-2014
From: lins@Apple.COM (Cheryl Lins)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: Re: Oberon question
Summary: answer
Keywords: Oberon, pointers, NEW
Date: 1 Sep 92 16:42:32 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Sep1.082031.17228@cs.joensuu.fi> jpussi@cs.joensuu.fi (Jarmo Pussinen) writes:
>In some paper I read that in Oberon, all pointer variables are
>initialised to NIL. Now I would like to know if this means that
>also pointer fields in dynamically (with NEW) allocated records
>or in static records are initialised to NIL. 
>
>In short are pointers always either NIL or valid pointers and
>not garbage pointers. May it vary between implementations?

I lobbied for explicit mention in the language report that all pointers are
initialized to NIL. Unfortunately, that didn't happen. ETH did not consider
it necessary. Any implementation that does not automatically initialize all
pointers is going to violate Oberon's type safety. So it shouldn't vary
between implementations.

For dyanmically allocated storage, to the programmer such storage should
always look like virgin memory when NEW is called. The fact the automatic
storage management (ie garbage collection) can occur should not be something
you have to program around or be aware of.


-- 
Cheryl Lins, Apple Computer, Inc. Oberon-2 Paladin  lins@apple.com
"Oppression breeds violence" - Front Line Assembly
Subject: Is Modula-2 dead? 
Distribution: world
Organization: IE Technical Services Holland
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 08:37:20 +0000


In article <1992Aug30.203640.29245@psg.com> randy@psg.com writes:

>
>g_dotzel@tron.gun.de (Guenter Dotzel) writes:
>
>> there is almost no interest in Oberon-2 in the real world.
>
>Hi Guenter,
>
>Possibly the German real world.  But the interest and use of Oberon-2 and
>Modula-2 in the States are about the same, although, sadly, it takes a
>magnifying glass to see either.
>
There is an increasing interest in Oberon-2 within Europe, especially as
version of the language are becoming available which are not tied to the
Oberon system.  We must remember though that it takes time for a language
to get out into the big wide world.  I was using C for nearly five years
before it moved from being on a par with Forth.

>> Maybe the O2-baby has to grow up fisrt by going through some standardisation
>> process?
>
>Use of Modula-2 over here has been inversely related to the so-called
>progress of the ISO WG, though I do not claim a causal relationship.  Save
>Oberon from such a fate.
>
Agreed, what is needed is for some body to get out and market an Oberon2
compiler which will work on a wide range of machines.  The thing which
really made C was the availablility of low cost, well supported and
documented compilers across a wide range of platforms.

Nigel



---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nigel Backhurst ( nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk )
c/o 88 Ashburton Road, Hugglescote, Coalville, LE6 2LX, U.K.
p/a IE Technical Services Holland, Deventerstr 150, 7321 CE Apeldoorn
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: Re: m2 for scientific computation
From: frank@ifi.unibas.ch (Robert Frank)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 06:26:11 GMT
Reply-To: frank@ifi.unibas.ch
Organization: Institut fuer Informatik

In article <BtK7wI.MF3@ais.org>  writes:
> In article <1992Aug25.170550.6706@sequent.com> tima@sequent.com (Timothy Alan  
Anderson) writes:
> >
> >Modula2 is dead. It's a shame! I was just telling someone after looking at
> >a C++ example, "Luckily I learned Modula-2 first. I do all this stuff
> >allready, I just have to learn a different syntax".
> >
> >And let's all thank the Ada-2 folks for nailing the coffin shut...
> >
> >tima@sequent.com
> 
> Right on, although Modula-2 is very much alive in many parts of the world,
> in the United States, it is dead. I too am glad that I learned M-2 before I
> learned C. I use many of the same principles I learned with M-2 in my C
> programming.
> 
> One of the biggest complaints I stil have with M-2 is that the type checking
> is *too* strict.
> 
> Why should I have to assign a pointer to an intermediate generic pointer,
> when I all I want to do is convert the type of my pointer?
>
Err, type casting is also possible in Modula-2! 
> i.e.
> wordpointer = integer pointer;
> bytepointer = wordpointer;
> character pointer= bytepointer;

A good compiler should digest the following:
character pointer = ADDRESS(word word pointer);

Where 'word pointer' is simply casted (not converted) to type ADDRESS which is  
asignable to all pointers.
> 
> vs. C's   character pointer = (char *) integer pointer;
> 
> Oh well. I loved M-2 very much, except for the typechecking details. I am
> thankful that it taught me good style, but for me, M-2 will be a 'teaching'

 .. let alone the syntacticall nesting of procedures...

> language, just like it's grandfather language, Pascal.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\------------------
> | Patrick Draper           Disclaimer:  I can't control my fingers,        |
> | draper@umcc.ais.org                   I can't control my toes! - Ramones |
> | University of Michigan                                                   |
> | Computer Club                We are a nation of laws, not people         |
> ------------------\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\////////////////////------------------

--
Robert Frank                         tel. + (061) 321 99 67                 
Institut fuer Informatik             fax  + (061) 321 99 15                 
University of Basel, Switzerland                                            
Mittlere Strasse 142      rfc822: frank@ifi.unibas.ch (NeXT mail accepted)  
CH-4056 Basel          X400: S=frank;OU=ifi;O=unibas;P=switch;A=arcom;C=ch
                   ( if all fails try frank@urz.unibas.ch )
From: lins@Apple.COM (Cheryl Lins)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: Re: Looking for a reference
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:59:30 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <apj.72.714854731@cs.sun.ac.za> apj@cs.sun.ac.za (Andries Dippenaar) writes:
>A short while back, somebody mentioned that Hans-Peter Moessenboeck has 
>published a paper in the ACM SIGplan (I think).  It relates to some new 
>wisdom about code sequences.  

It's in the recent SIGPLAN Notices. So it's either July or August 1992 issue.

-- 
Cheryl Lins, Apple Computer, Inc. Oberon-2 Paladin  lins@apple.com
"Oppression breeds violence" - Front Line Assembly
From: g_dotzel@tron.gun.de (Guenter Dotzel)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: Re: Is Modula-2 dead?
Organization: TRON Public Mailbox, Neurath, Germany
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 92 08:52:00 +0200

ms%lehre11.informatik.Uni-Bremen.DE@USENET.ZER wrote on Thu, 08-20-1992 at 13:43 h
under the subject 'Is Modula-2 dead?':

> So the IS is far away (18 months is a very long time in our business).

You are from a University. What do you mean when you say "business"?

> So what is the presence and the future of Modula-2? And who ist really using
> Modula-2 (no universities please, just the real world)?

I'm using Modula-2! I don't know whether I'm belonging to the real world,
but I'm not employed at an University and have no relations to any
University, altough I learned lot studying various Modula-2 
compiler source code released by ETH-Zuerich since 1981.

... and I'm still in business. Tru$t in Modula-2! ;-)

Greetings, Guenter
 
Guenter Dotzel, ModulaWare GmbH, Wilhelmstr. 17A, D-W 8520 Erlangen/F.R.Germany
Modula-2 & Oberon-2 Compiler Manufactur (VAX/VMS, OS/2 and Unix-Platforms)
Tel. +49 (9131) 208395, Fax +49 (9131) 28205.
E-mail/Internet: 100023.2527@compuserve.com OR g_dotzel@ame.nbg.sub.org
From: randy@psg.com (Randy Bush)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: Re: Is Modula-2 dead?
Date: 30 Aug 92 20:36:40 GMT
Organization: Pacific Systems Group, Portland Oregon, US

g_dotzel@tron.gun.de (Guenter Dotzel) writes:

> there is almost no interest in Oberon-2 in the real world. 

Hi Guenter,

Possibly the German real world.  But the interest and use of Oberon-2 and
Modula-2 in the States are about the same, although, sadly, it takes a
magnifying glass to see either.

> Maybe the O2-baby has to grow up fisrt by going through some standardisation
> process?

Use of Modula-2 over here has been inversely related to the so-called
progress of the ISO WG, though I do not claim a causal relationship.  Save
Oberon from such a fate.

Generally, there have been two sorts of language standardization efforts,
those that try to standardize the intersection of classic definitions and
implementations and those which attempt to standardize the union of all.
ISO/JTC1/SC22/WG13 is attempting to standardize the union of all desires,
whether tested by implementation or not.  The results are predictable.

> The main arguments against M2 was always "There is no standardised
> library!"

Luckily, this will soon change.  It will soon be "The standard library is
unbelievable baroque in design, unusable, and difficult to implement."

Perhaps Pat will be kind enough to post Wirth's comments on standardization
again.  The Modula-2 standards work has made this lesson all the more clear.

randy

PS: Your attack on university users is worth an apology.
-- 
randy@psg.com   ...!uunet!m2xenix!randy
From: g_dotzel@tron.gun.de (Guenter Dotzel)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: Re: Modula2 compilers for Windows3
Organization: TRON Public Mailbox, Neurath, Germany
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 92 09:31:00 +0200

> Steve Pankhurst,
> Hindin Communications,
> Christchurch,
> New Zealand.
pankhurst_s%kosmos.wcc.govt.nz@USENET.ZER wrote on Thu, 08-20-1992 at 23:50 h
under the subject 'Modula2 compilers for Windows3':

> Also I am interested in Modula2 compilers for the MAC and SCO UNIX.
                                                            ^^^^^^^^
Give MCS V4.3 a try! MC680x0 and Intel '386 flat mode compiler with IDE.
IDE runs under Unix with or without X11.

Guenter Dotzel, ModulaWare GmbH, Wilhelmstr. 17A, D-W 8520 Erlangen/F.R.Germany
Modula-2 & Oberon-2 Compiler Manufactur (VAX/VMS, OS/2 and Unix-Platforms)
Tel. +49 (9131) 208395, Fax +49 (9131) 28205.
E-mail/Internet: 100023.2527@compuserve.com OR g_dotzel@ame.nbg.sub.org

Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
From: johnh@macadam.mq.edu.au (John Haddy)
Subject: Acronyms
Organization: Macquarie University, School of Mathematics, Physics, Computing and Electronics
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 22:09:48 GMT

I'd like to create the canonical list of acronyms and abbreviations used in the
electronics and computer world.

Please send me your suggestions and contributions. Better still, does one already
exist? (Save me the effort :-)

I'll post the result in a month or so.

This is the sort of thing that regularly needs updating, so please inform me
whenever you run across a new abbreviation.

John Haddy

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

      |  _  |_   _   |_|  _   _|  _|              Electronics Department
    |_| (_) | | | |  | | (_| (_| (_| \/           School of MPCE
    ---------------------------------/-           Macquarie University
                                                  Sydney, AUSTRALIA 2109

    Email: johnh@mpce.mq.edu.au, Ph: +61 2 805 8959, Fax: +61 2 805 8983

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: vinay@CS.TORONTO.EDU ("Vinay K. Chaudhri")
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: m2 ftp sites
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:54:44 GMT
Reply-To: Modula2 List <INFO-M2%UCF1VM.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU>
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

I wish to obtain modula 2 compiler for sun cparc stations.
Could you recommend some ftp sites?

thanks,
vinay.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
From: cspt@giraffe.ru.ac.za (Prof. P. Terry)
Subject: Compiler sources
Summary: Where do you get them
Keywords: Compiler
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 06:49:32 GMT

In SIGPLAN vol 25(5) May 1990 appears an article by Kenneth Loudon
"PCode and compiler portability - Experience with a Modula-2
optimizing compiler" in which the author describes work done with
Powell's compiler sources.

Can anyone indicate whether these sources are available, and if
so, where they might be FTP'd or otherwise obtained.

Are there any other similar sources available anywhere else?

Many thanks
Pat Terry
cspt@alpha.ru.ac.za  or pdterry@psg.com
From: andrea@ESSEX.STFX.CA (John Andrea)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: RE: Logitech Modula-2 version 4.0 problems
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:27:00 GMT
Reply-To: Modula2 List <INFO-M2%UCF1VM.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU>
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

>first problem - where in the manuals is M2ASSIST described? there is a brief
>second problem - i have modified the M2ASSIST.INI file so that i manage
>   to hang the computer when i modify the default provided. CTRL-N
>   and CTRL-O work fine as supplied but not when changed.
>
>any Logitech Modula-2 version 4.0 experts out there?
>
>Rick Gee
>Computer Science Department
>Okanagan University College
>Kelowna, BC
>Canada

I wouldn't call myself a Logitech (Multiscope) 4.0 expert (not yet at least),
but i like the package a lot. And i've only found one bug that relates to an
existing file overwrite option.

first: true the manuals do have some rough spots
second: i find i have to keep in mind that DOS (yuck) combined with loosely
        defined and conforming hardware specifications frequently produces
        annoying situations.
        But if i get a chance i'll give your situation a try at home myself.


John Andrea
VAX System Manager
St.Francis Xavier University
Antigonish, Nova Scotia
Canada
email: andrea@essex.stfx.ca
From: mwalls@nmsu.edu (Commander Keen)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: Random files in M2
Date: 27 Aug 92 02:21:49 GMT
Distribution: comp.lang.modula2
Organization: NMSU Computer Science


 	I was just wondering if anyone can give me some info on how to
create and manipulate random files (like in BASIC) in modula-2?

								Craig
						mwalls@NMSU.Edu
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
From: eepjm@wombat.newcastle.edu.au (Peter Moylan)
Subject: Re: Is Modula-2 dead? 
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 00:08:04 GMT

In article <munk.714828002@prles6b>, munk@prl.philips.nl (Harm Munk) writes:
> 
> If people think that real programs should be written in C or C++, then let's
> stop developing native Modula 2 compilers. Instead, we should have compilers
> that compile to C or C++. If we do that, we use C (and C++ ?) for the purpose
> that it was developed for: glorified assembly ;-).
> 
> And if asked in which language our products are written, we can say that the
> code is in C or C++.

I was forced into a similar situation many years ago.  I used a 
high-level language when developing an application for an organisation
which was used to using assembly language.  The auditors complained.
So I took my object code, ran it through a disassembler, and delivered
the assembly language output.  The auditors were then happy.  Not a
peep over the fact that my final code had no comments, no labels,
no variable names.  I had hoped to make the point that their
requirements were stupid, but they missed the point.

I don't have to like it, though.  These days, I make sure I point out
to all and sundry exactly *why* C/C++ programming is unsafe, and
why it is uneconomical in terms of development time (particularly
debugging time).  It's an uphill battle, but that's no reason for
giving up the battle.

Try working on the project managers and the accountants.  If you
can give them hard proof that they're saving time and money by
specifying M2 (or, indeed, any high-level language) rather than C++,
half the battle is won.  One way to do this is to try to introduce
an environment which permits mixed-language programming (this is one
reason why I recently converted to TopSpeed), and then come up with
some hard figures - by using detailed logs and timesheets - which
show that you're more productive than the rest of the team.

-- 
Peter Moylan                      eepjm@wombat.newcastle.edu.au