HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Spreadsheets (was Mesa vs. Appsoft)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 00:12:39 -0500

CT is Clifford T. Matthews, ctm@ardi.com
David Pollack is dpp@athena.com
and my Internet address is too complicated for me to generate manually...

  CT> I don't think I missed David Gursky's point, but perhaps in my desire
  CT> to make my last post brief (anyone who reads my posts knows what an
  CT> exception that was), I didn't make *my* point clear... <Stuff Deleted>

Fair enough and enough said.

  CT> <Stuff Deleted> Cliff and ARDI's job is to blur the boundaries, so *you*
  CT> can make *your* choice.

Read on...

  CT> If you've watched what we've done with Executor so far, you know what
  CT> you can expect in the future.  Even though I'm a person of principle,
  CT> I'm always afraid that by acting according to principle, I'll dismiss
  CT> something good without trying it.  If you're opposed to Executor "on
  CT> principle", I hope you'll check it out.  It could be the tool that you
  CT> need.

Although I've been working with the NeXT (as well as several other workstations,
notably Sun / Solaris, Apple / Macintosh, and IBM PS/2 / OS/2) over the past
several years, I have only recently begun to work with the NeXT on a more
detailed basis, so I have not been privvy to the history of Executor.  At a
basic level however, IMO, I agree with David Pollock's comment (not quoted) that
if I wanted to run Mac applications on a day-in and day-out basis, I would have
bought a Mac - a consumer will buy a product that they are comfortable using. 
However fine a product Executor is, it has an intrinisic flaw - it makes the
NeXT look like a Mac, and as a consumer, that's not why I bought the NeXT (see
David Pollack's earlier message.)

That being said, I'm not (in principle) opposed to products like Executor that
allow me run Mac applications, it is that I'm opposed to taking the NeXT and
turn it into a Mac.  Ideally, I'd like a product like Executor to give the Mac
application a NeXT look-and-feel, so that not only do I need concern myself with
a single "look-and-feel", but for all intents and purposes, it appears to me
that Excel (as a specific example) is running on my NeXT, just as Appsoft Draw
or Lighthouse's Concurrence products do (as two other specific examples)  [Are
you listening Insignia?  This applies to SoftPC as much as Cliff's product.]

Comments?  Flames?  Recommendations for good restaurants?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: jhall@tahiti.umhc.umn.edu (Jeff Hallgren)
Subject: Re: NS3.0 fake recycled paper?
Reply-To: jhall@tahiti.umhc.umn.edu
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 18:28:58 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.140409.17612@news2.cis.umn.edu>  
jhall@tahiti.umhc.umn.edu (Jeff Hallgren) writes:
> 	The manuals certainly have a recycled paper look to them but, are  
> they? There is no mention of the paper being recycled, why pretend? I  
> suppose that its even bleached paper dyed to look unbleached.
> 	Hopefully, NeXT (Redwood City) is just too cool to mention it.
> 	
> 	On another important subject, ever notice that the NeXT, Windows  
> and OS/2 logos are all black squares with 4 colors on them? (OS/2 has 5  
if  
> you count gray). Did they all hire the same stylists?
> 
> 	Jeff
> 
> Jeff Hallgren 
> Email: jhall@tahiti.umhc.umn.edu
>  
Just in case my other post didn't make it, SORRY. I spouted garbage.
The paper is recycled its just that one of the manuals didn't say so
and I neglected to check the others really carefully.
Jeff
From: cdb@codex .oz.au (Cameron Bromley)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: Remote printing from PC
Date: 10 Sep 92 08:31:40 GMT
Organization: Codex Software Development Pty Ltd

In article <1992Sep03.030101.11052@cyantic.com> mark@cyantic.com (Mark T.  
Dornfeld) writes:
> I'd like to use the laser printer connected to my Turbo from a PC on the
> network running Beame and Whiteside's TCP/NFS product, version 2.1.  All
> the NFS functions work correctly, but when I try to link a MS-DOS device to
> the laser printer, it fails with an 'invalid printer' message.
> 
> I am quite sure this has to do with running Netinfo and not a standard BSD
> print manager, but I'm wondering if anyone has found any workarounds. 

Your need to load the printcap entry for the printer you want into netinfo.   
Here's how:
	- "su" to root
	- "nidump printcap / > /tmp/printcap"
	- add the appropriate printer entry to /tmp/printcap 
	- "niload printcap / < /tmp/printcap"

This assumes that the printer you wish to use is in the / domain.  Have you  
checked that the printer is marked public from the print manager?

> I am
> also suspicious of the way Beame and Whiteside use the gethostbyname()
> function call since their NFS daemon would not compile on the NeXT.

I'm using version 2.3 over the Lan Workplace TCP/IP stack, and it compiled  
fine.  Maybe you need to upgrade?.

Cameron.
---
---------------------------------------------------------------
Cameron Bromley                       Internet: cdb@codex.oz.au
Codex Software Development Pty. Ltd.  NextMail encouraged
Phone +61-3-696-2490                  Fax +61-3-696-6757

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
Cameron Bromley                       Internet: cdb@codex.oz.au
Codex Software Development Pty. Ltd.  NextMail encouraged
Phone +61-3-696-2490                  Fax +61-3-696-6757
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: asd@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Kareth)
Subject: Re: Color 17" vs 21": which is better?
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 18:41:06 GMT

In <1992Sep5.050121.20036@utstat.uucp> philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:

>Now that NeXT has a Trinitron 17" colour (which won't work with the ND)
>and an adb keyboard (which won't work with a Cube apparently), I would
>wait and see what the new 17" monitor was like. The older one was not very
>good.

UH since when did they have these?  I've not noticed/heard any new
product announcements.

-k

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: gumby@Cygnus.COM (David V. Henkel-Wallace)
Subject: Handling foreign payments.
Organization: Cygnus Support, Palo Alto, California
Date: 7 Sep 92 06:10:00

   Date: 3 Sep 92 00:58:00
   From: scott@nic.gac.edu (Scott Hess)

   My problem is that my bank wants $35 to turn a check drawn on a
   German bank into dollars in my account.  This is _not_ including
   changing the money, if that's needed.  Since NeXT is such a world-wide
   machine, I'm most likely not alone in this problem.  But, I've
   never seen any postings about it.

We quote our prices in dollars ask that foreign payments be made by
wire xfer.  Since these come in via the federal reserve clearing
system, our bank doesn't charge for these.

We have a standard letter we fax to overseas customers, for them to
give to _their_ bank.  It lists our bank's name, address, telex #,
federal bank ID (it maybe called something else -- don't have the
letter in front of me) etc.

Doing it this way means it doesn't cost us any more.  It may cost the
sender something; I don't know and nobody has complained.  It's
certainly better than having different prices for foreign orders!

g

PS: by the way, $35 to turn a check written on a foreign account is
    pretty reasonable.  That is a very painful operation for a US
    bank.  Most banks will probably do the odd one for an individual's
    account, but they'll figure that a business will be getting lots
    of them and will therefore charge for it.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Subject: Re: NT: please define vapor.
Reply-To: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:53:45 GMT

Stephen E. Halpin writes

> Im curious where Microsoft admits this.

MicroSoft acknowledges that the percentage use of Windows packages is
about %30.  The other %60 take up shelf space.

> Vapor?  How many units did NeXT sell in its first two months?  Microsoft
> has sold 10,000 Windows NT Developer Kits, and it hasnt even hit beta
> stage yet.

As long as it's not *released*, it's vapor.

> What are you refering to when you talk about the UI?  A menu is a
> menu, a button is a button, etc...  Once youve launched an application
> you can safely ignore the "desktop", at which point youre at the mercy
> of the application designer.  If the designer has layed out dialog
> boxes correctly, given the user an appropriate amount of direct control
> over the data s/he is working with, and done some decent graphics
> design you have a good UI that will work over almost any imaging model.
> This has nothing to do with Microsoft or Windows.

Uhm, yeah.  The *environment* is all part of the GUI.  Dialog box
layout, etc. is *all* affected by the imaging model and the API the
GUI environment presents.  A menu *isn't* a menu.  Some work better
than others.  The NeXT menus all work smoothly, are detachable, and
present information in a visually readable and consistent way.  Doing
drag-and-drop, for example - it's very easy on the NeXT, and as such,
nearly every application has it.  Same with services.  These are part
of the GUI's API.  I don't see that kind of interoperability on other
platforms yet, mostly because it is such a pain to do on them.

--
Scott Byer                             NeXTMail: byer@mv.us.adobe.com
Adobe Systems Incorporated               These are *my* opinions, and  
1585 Charleston Road, P.O. Box 7900        do not necessarily reflect
Mountain View, CA 94039-7900             the opinions of my employer.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: dpp@athena.com (David Pollak)
Subject: Mesa vs. Appsoft Solution
Reply-To: dpp@athena.com (David Pollak)
Organization: Athena Design, Inc.
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 18:13:10 GMT

Hi,

As most of you know, Appsoft is coming out with a spreadsheet called  
Solution.  It is based on code that was developed at Ashton-Tate by a team  
of programmers including the amazing Bruce Henderson.  We have seen beta  
versions of the A-T product and are very impressed with the 3-D charts and  
the macro language, Wilma.  Appsoft said they will be putting out a beta  
of Solution on the archives any day now.  I'd like to get a public  
discussion going about Mesa and Solution.

I'm interested in hearing what people have to say about both Mesa and  
Solution, the focus of which hopefully will be Solution's strengths and  
Mesa's weaknesses.  There is only one way for us to come out with a better  
product and that is to find out what people in the real world want.   
Please use both the demo version of Mesa (version 1.1 is on the archives)  
and the beta of Solution (if you have a beta agreement with Appsoft that  
limits your discussion of the program, please respect the agreement.)   
Then, either in public (i.e., on the net) or via private e-mail  
(feedback@athena.com) tell us what we're missing, where Solution beats us,  
and what would make Mesa more usable for your application.

I would like to also ask that you do not simply bash either product (I  
occasionally receive e-mail that says "Mesa is really a bad product, how  
can you ship something so bad?"  To which I usually reply, "For example?"   
There are typically no examples.)  If you have a gripe with either  
product, please make a suggestion regarding a fix.  Please be concrete  
with your criticism and offer suggestions as to how to make it better.

I feel that there will be some healthy competition between Appsoft and  
Athena Design.  We are the only spreadsheet vendors that have committed to  
NS 486.  We have a chance to build two very powerful spreadsheet products  
that demonstrate why NeXTSTEP is the best operating environment around.   
Your help in this pursuit is very much appreciated.

David

-- 
David Pollak - dpp@athena.com - NeXTMail Compliant
Attorney at Law,
Feeder of the Bears, Athena Design, Inc.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Spreadsheets (was Mesa vs. Appsoft)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1992 19:26:38 -0500

I posted:

  DG> I'll throw my two cents in to this debate.  The one thing missing from
  DG> everyone's spreadsheet application is compatibility with Excel...

And Clifford T. Matthews (ctm@ardi.com) responded:

  CM> Excel 3.0a for the Macintosh runs under Executor 1.2 (shipping today).
  CM> Excel 4.0 for the Macintosh runs under Executor 1.2.1 (shipping
  CM> sometime next week, assuming we get the manuals back from the
  CM> printer).

Clifford's response misses my point.  I know I can use Executor to run Excel,
but  if a user can run Excel, they will not switch to Athena Design's Mesa,
Appsoft's Solution, Lotus' Improv, or Informix's Wingz.  Athena Design, Appsoft,
Lotus, and Informix all realize that backwards compatibility to competiting
products is an effective method of winning new sales, because the user will not
loose access to any of the information they have generated.  All I'm saying is
that the specific set of formats supported needs to be expanded to include Excel
(both Mac and PC versions.)
From: abe@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Vic Abell)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: Printing (HP) "binary" files
Date: 9 Sep 92 14:36:47 GMT
Organization: Purdue University

In article <1992Sep9.134633.18854@socrates.umd.edu> fletcher@socrates.umd.edu (Charles Fletcher) writes:
>In article <HARDY.92Sep8220541@golem.ps.uci.edu> hardy@golem.ps.uci.edu (Meinhard E. Mayer (Hardy)) writes:
>>I remember a utility called PCL2PS (or was it the other way around?)
>>which can translate PCL to postscript.  Try archie for finding it.

There are two PCL to  PS filters for MSDOS at wuarchive.wustl.edu in
mirrors/msdos/postscript:

PC2PS11.ZIP   B   37769  910522  Cvts IBM char set txt files to Postscript prtr
PCPS710.ZIP   B   32976  920810  Print PC files on postcript ptr. Many features

HPGL2PS is there also.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: bad@flatlin.ka.sub.org (Christoph Badura)
Subject: Re: Dammit, I'm dumb. Why doesn't talk work?
Organization: Guru Systems/Funware Department
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 15:19:59 GMT

In <lb9s1hINNfm4@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> dmr@medicated.Corp.Sun.COM (Daniel M. Rosenberg) writes:

>On some NeXT's, you type "talk," and it says,
>"Go away. You don't exist."

You have no entry in the utmp file for the tty/pty your using. Tell
your terminal emulator to write utmp entries.
-- 
				Christoph Badura  ---  bad@flatlin.ka.sub.org

ISO? Nicht immer, aber immer M-vfter.
From: kjb@uts.amdahl.com (Kevin J. Barth)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: where can one find x3270 for the NeXT
Keywords: x3270 TCP/IP ethernet
Date: 11 Sep 92 19:51:19 GMT
Followup-To: kjb@uts.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

I have a need for x3270 for the NeXT.  I intend to run it under
Cub-X on a NeXTStation Turbo Color system running release 2.2.

Can anyone give me hints on where to find one and what is needed
to get it to work on my ethernet network?


Many thanks in advance,
Kevin
kjb@uts.amdahl.com
From: sowa@amdew.llnl.gov (Erik C. Sowa)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: tekton4tek submitted to sonata
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:27:09 GMT
Organization: LLNL Chemistry and Materials Science

I have uploaded the file tekton4tex.tar.Z to the submissions directory
on sonata.cc.purdue.edu. It contains files that enable the use of
Adobe's Tekton font with the NeXT's TeX implementation, or any
implementation that uses Tom Rockicki's dvips. The README file is
appended to this article. Although the README file does not mention it,
these files would be rather useful as a template or guide for anyone
wishing to use other Postscript fonts with TeX.

--
erik sowa (sowa@amdew.llnl.gov)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: burchard@horizon.math.utah.edu (Paul Burchard)
Subject: Re: ZyXEL 1496 modem
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 04:45:29 GMT

In article <BuJqJA.Eus@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> lemson@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (David Lemson)  
writes:
> grio@postscript.cs.psu.edu (Daniel L Grillo) writes:
> >How much did they charge for the 1496E?
> 
> Since I'm not connected with them, (except as a satisfied customer)
> I don't feel bad about posting a price -
> it apparently changes all the time but about 2 weeks ago they were
> quoting $349 plus a few dollars shipping.  They don't take credit
> cards ('yet').  It has the latest production (4.13) ROMs, including

Latest != greatest.  The 4.13 version has a bug which screws up FAX receiving  
on the NeXT (but apparently not on PC's where they presumably test it).  I got  
burned by this same thing by buying the ZyXEL hardware from a discounter,  
rather than through Craig Goss of B&W (author of NXFax) directly.  Despite  
this, Craig was extremely helpful about getting me upgrade ROMs in short order  
(thanks Craig!).  I recommend talking to him before you do anything.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Burchard	<burchard@math.utah.edu>
``I'm still learning how to count backwards from infinity...''
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (Stefano Pagiola)
Subject: Re: Encription in 3.0?
Reply-To: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 17:09:37 GMT

Simson L. Garfinkel writes
> > > Did FEE encription make it into the 3.0 Mail.app?
> > No.
> > Due to restrictions on export of encryption software,
> > NeXT would not have been allowed to sell the software
> > outside the United States.  Why the chose not to release
> > both an international version and a domestic version, I
> > don't know. [see fall issue of NeXTWORLD pg. 31]
> > 
> Because that wouldn't work with NeXT's global strategy.
> Imagine if you someone had sent encrypted mail from your
> chicago office to your pittsburgh office, but you were in
> france.  then you couldn't read it on your NeXT machine in
> france, because it wouldn't have the encryption software,
> even if you have NFS mounted your home directory from pittsburgh.
> 

Fine and dandy, except that the exact same problem also applies to  
regular plain-vanilla, non-encrypted NeXTMail.  If you don't know  
that the other person is receiving mail on a NeXT, you can't send  
NeXTMail.  Further, even if they are, you may not be able to reliably  
send NeXTMail because some gateways trash NeXTMail completely.

The bottom line is you need to know exactly what the recipient can or  
cannot receive.  I don't see how knowing whether they can receive  
encrypted mail would make that any harder.  Besides, I imagine that  
one doesn't send encrypted mail to everybody; more likely, its sent  
to people you know well, so that you're likely to know whether they  
can get encrypted mail or not.

Yes, there are instances in which US users would themselves  
physically be abroad and therefore be unable to read their email sent  
encrypted to their US address (Simson's example).  But one could  
easily imagine doing an rlogin into a US machine, decrypting, and  
mailing off to the foreign machine.  Sure, the message is now in  
clear, but that's no worse than if you had no encryption in the first  
place.

--
-
Stefano Pagiola
Food Research Institute, Stanford University
spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (NeXTMail encouraged)
From: mikes@ceco.ceco.com (Michael Stepniczka)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: 3.0 Upgrade
Summary: can I use a Sun CD-ROM drive to upgrade
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:50:09 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Commonwealth Edison Co., Chicago, IL

With all of the talk of the 3.0 upgrade and so many :) :) :)'s being
posted by people with the new NeXTstep, I was wondering if it's possible
to use a Sun CD-ROM drive to do the upgrade. I could probably take one
home with me from work (borrow :)), and save myself the costs of buying`
a drive. Also, does anyone know how much just the CD is going for? Thanks.

						Mike Stepniczka
						mikes@ceco.ceco.com
From: wierda@ltb.ltb.bso.nl (Gerben Wierda)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: NT / NeXT trivia
Date: 15 Sep 92 09:12:33 GMT
Organization: BSO/LT, Baarn, The Netherlands

In <prqffd8@zola.esd.sgi.com> portuesi@tweezers.esd.sgi.com (Michael Portuesi) writes:


>In article <1992Sep10.133214.14819@socrates.umd.edu>, fletcher@socrates.umd.edu writes:
>> 	When NS486 hits the street it will be NT that
>> 	will be in a panic.
>> 	Get ready to mop up the drool from all the PC
>>	owners.

>I find it interesting that in this thread (and in the
>other which was comparing NeXTStep to Windows NT), that
>the same people who were quick to label NT "vaporware"
>seem to overlook that fact that NS 486 is equally
>vaporous, even more so since NeXT is not making
>NS 486 developers kits available for $69.

Technically NeXT doesn't need to, since developing an App on the NeXT will
make it run on NS 486. I can develop on my NeXT and run on NS 486. Fat
binaries, remember? If 3.0 is already equipped with fat binaries, I don;t
think so, but NS 486 will probably be 3.1 anyway.

The whole $69 devkit from NT is a very shrewd sales move. Instant market share
(look how many copies of NT I have sold....).

-- 
wierda@ltb.bso.nl (Gerben Wierda) || I speak for myself and not for my employer.
(+31) 2154 84414/(+31) 35 833539  || Support the League for Programming Freedom!
    "If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there."
    (From the Talmud(?), rephrased in) Lewis Carroll, "Alice in Wonderland".
From: glenn@rightbrain.com (Glenn Reid)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: Hard Drive problems (?)
Date: 10 Sep 92 06:22:13 GMT
Reply-To: glenn@rightbrain.com

(Christian De Lay) writes:
> I'm getting some awfully weird noises from my (406MB) hard drive in my 9  
> month old NeXTstation mono.  Occasionally the drive will make a high pitch  
> whining sound (which sounds similar to a skill saw "powering down") for no  
> apparent reason.  Now, I've had this machine long enough to know that this  
> probably isn't a normal sound for the beast to be making.
> 
> What I want to know is this: Has anyone else experienced this problem?  Are  
> there any known problems with NeXT's hard drives?

I have ear plugs in my ears as I type this.  The drive on my NeXTstation
has been sounding like brake pads on metal for many weeks, and it's driving
me nuts.  I'm about to have it serviced, except that I don't want to let
go of my machine long enough to do whatever it takes to fix it :-(  It's
a 400Mb drive, for what it's worth.

--
 Glenn Reid        		NeXTmail: glenn@rightbrain.com
 RightBrain Software		415-326-2974 (NeXTfax 326-2977)
 Palo Alto, California
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: binders@reis55.alleg.edu (Simon Binder)
Subject: Terminal question
Organization: Allegheny College
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 23:27:26 GMT

I am on a NeXT system at a small college in Penn.  What I want to do is to  
find out how to send e-mail under a different name (i.e. a name other than  
my login name).  I know that there are ways to send e-mail through  
terminal other than the mail command, but I don't have enough UNIX  
experience to be able to execute the commands without having some idea of  
what commands will give me greater access to the message wraps.

Anyone out there familiar with Terminal who can help?  I would greatly  
appreciate the answer to my corundrum, or even clues that can help lead me  
to figuring out the answer on my own.  Being a person who loves a  
challange (which is why I want to figure this out in the first place), I  
might even prefer the latter.

Please respond by e-mail to binders@alleg.edu.  My course schedule is such  
that I don't have time to read this newsgroup regularly enough to get  
responses before expiration.

Thanks,
Simon Binder
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc