From: minhaszt@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Re: Reply to seyyed's reply...
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:46:57 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati

In article <kujo2mINNjnh@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, smortaz@handel.Eng.Sun.COM (Shahrokh Mortazavi) writes:
> In article <1992Apr13.113728.1095@ucbeh.san.uc.edu> minhaszt@ucbeh.san.uc.edu writes:
> 
>>
>>Federal Justice Adam Shukoor once said to me in regards to Islam, "Zafar, the
>>gift is good, but the package is horrible." 
> 
> what an accurate summary.  if youve read my posts carefully, youd see
> that ive repeatedly emphasized that the _essence_ of eslaam is perfectly
> fine, and as mr shukoor says, only its packaging is horrible.  in our case,
> unfortunately package delivery boy was pretty horrible too.
> 
>>Seyyed, "ud'u ila din-illah bi tarika-i-ahsan".
>>
>>Sharokh, not everything needs to be responded to. When someone personally
>>insults me on the net, it is a rare thing if I ever respond back. This is 
>>called "sabr". 
>>I don't need to tell you what the Quran says about sabr, but it's
>>a good thing. 
> 
> apparently seyyed skipped over that soore.
> 
>>I don't think there is any sort of "version" of Islam
> 
> then could you explain to me why according to such a mono-version,
> "exact" religion, seyyed claims that hejaab is mandatory but you say
> its not, that salmun rushdie _must_ die, no ifs or buts, but you say
> thats absurd, etc etc?  if i remember correctly, he _flamed_you_ for
> stating that rushdie needn't die.  he said something to the effect of
> 'keep your personal opinions to yourself, eslaam is very clear about
> this, he must die'.  so how can this be that two devout moslems read an
> 'exact' religion's commandments so wildly differently?

It seems that you are confusing versions with differences of interpretation. A
different version of Islam would have widely differing views on the most basic
issues. There is absolutely _no_ difference between any of the Muslims as to
what the basic issues of Islam are and where importance is to be laid on those
basic issues. Except for some........ get it?
There is something called different schools of thought. They interpret certain
events in history in differing manners, or they might interpret what Mohammad
might have said in different ways. This is not to say that there is some sort
of basic difference between any of the schools of thought because there is
none. One thing I must say is that all of the schools of thought whether in
Sunni or in Shia have not done an adequate job in interpretting the tradition
of the prophet beyond his literal doings. For example there is a tradition
where the prophet of god had met some farmers who were going to plant some date
trees and for some reason he had said for them not to plant it when they
planned to but to wait until the next year, and so they did. However, in the
year that they skipped, there was a lot of rain, and in the year that they
planted there was no rain and the trees died. As a result the prophet of God
said, if I tell you to do something in matters of religion you obey me, if I
tell you to do something in matters of the world you do as your knowledge tells
you. The so-called scholars have said that the meaning of this tradition is
that one should always listen to the prophet even if it is a cause of hardship.
But if you read this hadith it is obvious that what is trying to be said is
that prophet of God is admitting that even he can be wrong, and he admitted to
being wrong many times.
On the other hand differences of opinion are not a bad thing either, Islam was
not meant to be a monolithic structure for all situatuations. Differences of 
interpretation are a good thing, because it takes into account the dynamics of
a society. The prophet of god was not a robot who did a specific thing under
specific circumstances. He took into account the circumstances he was in and 
the needs and the desires of the people around him. He went against his own
judgement in order to appease the people around him on many occasions. As a
result it is not surprising for him to say that difference of opinion in his
nation are a blessing. This does not mean that wild interpretations of a
structure of the magnitude of Islam are something acceptable. One trying to
interpret something it is of utmost importance to know in detail the Quran and
the life of Mohammed, PLUS ONE'S INTELLIGENCE. This will result in the most
humane interpretation of a situation. I don't think the mullahs are very
successful in this regard in that they have take some parts and increased the
importance and have taken other parts and deemphasized the importance. In any
case Islam is not an exact science, it is a way of life that has some general
principles to be adhered to and differing opinions are not bad.
In the previous post I did not say that women did not have to where
hijab, I said that it is not an important issue to be dealt with over and over
again. I also said that it is not an enforcable rule. What I meant by that is
this. It is impossible to enforce the 55 mph speed limit. Everyone knows that
it is wrong to speed, it is breaking the law, but no one wants to obey the
speed limit except for conscientious drivers. The police would be wasting its
time iime if it concetrated all of its efforts on the speeders because thee
more dangerous offen offenses to be dealt The cops are good enough to sometimes
let go of someone who may be speeding but still within some sort of reason
becasue who knows why a person is speeding, but they will go out of their way
to  catch someone who is going let's say 100mph. A similar situation is with
hijab. If someone is not wearing hijab, it does not make him or her (yes there
is even a hijab for men) an evil person. One can not nit pick over details as
to the length of the sleeve, etc., and compared to other things it is minor,
however if one wants to take it too 100mph, then that is something else. I
don't want to get into what would constitute 100mph. I'm in no position to
speculate. The main intention of hijab is to make some sort of minimum standard
as to public dress code, because you know and I know that how a person, any
person dresses is a reflection of personality, and how a person dresses is also
a factor in influencing personality, and it is also a factor in how one is
treated in society.
As far as the Sal business goes, I posted a long-ass article on why I feel he
should not be punished with death. That doesn't mean I like the guy. In the
article I gave reference to various SUNNI hadith. (In sunniya, hadith are the
words only of Mohammed and no one else, they should be taken as reliable if and
only if they have proven to be so, and the ones I provided are such). In any
case I don't want to get into the Sal business again. However I will e-mail you
what I posted it if you want.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian