HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Subject: Re: Jealousy (from the pages of omni....)
Originator: cjdcosta@c00404-346dan.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 19:43:54 GMT


>After following this topic here, and similar ones here and on other
>electronic forums and in person, I have come to one conclusion:  Those
>people (whether they are in Mensa or not) who continually bash Mensa and
>Mensans as elitist, anti-social, or whatever, are seriously deficient in
>those same characteristics which they say that Mensans Mensans lack.  They
>are divisive and are forever trying to find fault with everyone but
>themselves, and rarely contribute anything positive.  

I've realised something else that's common with all Mensahaters: You take the 
trouble to refute the accusations, and they'll conveniently ignore the rebuttal 
and change their theme, or go off on a tangent, or try some imaginative circular
reasoning to arrive back at square one..their square one. Nothing is going to 
be gained by reasoning with these people as they clearly have an axe to grind. 
We shouldn't waste our time on them. I'll try and follow my own advice from now 
on, unless I find those who are open to reason and aren't just carrying the SAT 
monkey and other emotional baggage on their backs.
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Gay Mensans?
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:32:49 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <93023.144437MORIARTY@NDSUVM1.BITNET>, MORIARTY@NDSUVM1.BITNET
wrote:
> 
> I betthat got your attention.  :-)  The title speaks for itself
> so where do we go from here?
>      Virtually,     Michael

It all depends on where you want to go.  GaySIG is one of the most active
national SIGs in Mensa (and their hospitality suite at AGs and certain RGs
far surpasses some of the official hospitality suites run by the gathering
coordinators).

some local groups have their own gaySIGs, and a few (such as San Francisco
Regional Mensa) have saphSIGs (perhaps under different names) as well.

Check them out.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                         Boycott Colorado                            |
|     These are my opinions, and not necessarily any one else's.      |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: The origin of `Mensa'.  A typo?
Date: 21 Jan 93 23:55:19 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <1993Jan21.061214.2035@linus.mitre.org>,
crawford@boole.mitre.org (Randy Crawford) wrote:
> 
> 
> It's been said many times that `mensa' is latin for table and alludes to 
> round table discussions as exemplifying the conversational nature of 
> bright people.  Or something vague like that.
> 
> Does this make sense to you?  I've always been doubtful.  Why should a
> bunch of bright people choose to name their organization after furniture?
> 
> It seems more likely to me that Mensa began as `mens', the latin word for 
> mind or intellect.  Then the Brits who dreamed up Mensa in the first place
> probably said, "Hmm.  The name seems kind of obvious, since nearly every
> educated Briton knows that `mens' means `intellect'.  So let's add an `a' 
> to mens so it's not as intuitive, and call ourselves Mensa.  And since we've
> named ourselves after a table for no apparent reason, we need to concoct an 
> explanation which sounds acceptably eccentric by british standards and could 
> convince a lot of bright people of its plausibility.  Yeah.  That'll work.'
> 
> What do you think?

It was a deliberate decision to make a triple pun in Latin.  Remember the
Arthorian legends of the round table where all were equal?  That is very
British.  Mensa means table; mens means mind; and menses means month. 
Therefore, the organization is a group of minds that meet at a figurative
round table once a month.  Since then, the frequency of the meetings has
increased significantly.

The only person who knows for sure is Dr. Ware, the only founding member
still alive (to the best of my knowledge), and he confirms this origin.  If
you doubt his veracity, take it up with him.

Besides, what difference does it make?

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                         Boycott Colorado                            |
|     These are my opinions, and not necessarily any one else's.      |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 16:51:13 EDT
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

jones@sj.ate.slb.com (Clark Jones) writes:
>John Cooley (jcooley@miracle.com) wrote:
>: 
>: The great Margot (who really did do a lot for Mensa) is gone, so we should
>: seriously be thinking of saving Mensa bucks by moving headquarters out of
>: New York City.  (Each time I hear that mentioned to AMC bigwigs, they squak
>: that we have a long lease with the Landlord and we can't break it.  Plus
>: they say it'll cost too much to move people out to Peroria and many of them
>: don't want to go!  -- Breaking leases is easy, that's what lawyers are for.
>: Moving the clerks out may not be the right way to think about this.  How about
>: letting the clerks go in NYC and hiring new ones in Peroria?)
>: 
>I trust that (a) "Peroria" is a typo and that (b) you're referring to Peoria,
>Arizona (a suburb of Phoenix)!  ;-)  ;-)  ;-)

Hey, everyone knows Perorioa is in Illinois!   ;^)

-John

 ==========================================================================
       John Cooley              Zappa as a waste management engineer: 
                                  "Hey, there, Brother!  Whatcha
    jcooley@miracle.com            doing with that Cosmic Debris?"  

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Subject: Re: Something in us going wrong...
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:33:14 GMT

In article 29A@well.sf.ca.us, ecsd@well.sf.ca.us (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>To Mike Eager - I'M BACK.

Well good.


>So -- where's a TURKEY TO ROAST.
>I can be reached at ecsd@well.sf.ca.us -
>sniff at my mailbox please, all the sooner if you need a crack programmer.

Better than sniffing at your shoes.  (This might be better redirected to 
alt.sex.bizzare.)


---
Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: wecoyote@warner.acme.com (Wile E Coyote)[GENIUS COYOTIUS]
Subject: From the Pages of Omni, Part II
Reply-To: wecoyote@warner.acme.com (Wile E Coyote)[GENIUS COYOTIUS]
Organization: ACME Catalog Showrooms, serving 'toons since 1939
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 11:39:00 GMT


From the pages of Omni magazine (Feb/Mar 93):

TAKE THIS INSTANT TEST TO SEE IF YOU'RE A GENIUS.

Rearrange these six matchsticks to make "nothing."
No matchsticks may be bent, broken or placed over each other.

		  | | | | | |

This problem stumps 60% of the Mensa members who try it.  And
they all have IQ's in the top 2% nationwide.  If you can solve
it, you might have what it takes to join us.  To find out, get
our practice test by sending $12 (check or MO, US Funds only)
with your name and address to American Mensa Ltd., Dept 9203,
2626 East 14th St., Brooklyn, NY 11235-3992. Or dial 
1-800-66MENSA, ext 9203, to order our free brochure.

puzzle from THE MENSA@ GENIUS QUIZ A DAY BOOK,Addison Wesley
Publishing Company, Inc., 1989,

MENSA, The High IQ Society
@1992 American Mensa, Ltd.

Reprinted in full.


-------------------------

Ahem,  It still amazes me that 6 out of 10 Mensans are "stumped"
by the puzzles that they advertise.  My cat Mittens could
figure this one out, and she's not even in the top 2 percentile
in the animal kingdom.  It makes you wonder, doesn't it.  Why 
would they choose such an advertising campaign which portrays
6 out of 10 Mensans as a 'clueless goobers' while the other 
4 probably had to use a Cray supercomputer to figure out the
solution.  According to the ad, if you can figure out
the puzzle, you may qualify to join Mensa.  The ad also
states that 60% were "stumped."  If that is so, then
how could those 60% possibly have gotten into Mensa.
WARNING... WARNING....
CONTRADICTION ALERT!!!! CONTRADICTION ALERT!!!!!
We have stumbled onto something here, haven't we?
Any thoughts on this?



Also, what about that 800 number:

  1-800-66MENSA = 1-800-666-3671
	                ^^^

Ah... what might this number be saying to us?
Might Mensa be in liege with the almight evil himself?
Doing their bidding with the Prince of Darkness via 
Nancy, their Time/Life Operator?  Is this why they
choose the path of atheism and liberalism following
Satan's little helper, Bill Clinton down the path to Hell?
Any thoughts on this as well?
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: matt@severian.chi.il.us (Matt Crawford)
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Organization: The Chrome Plated Megaphone of Destiny
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 01:16:36 GMT

> >Linda Cunningham:
> >They "lost" me when I decided that I had better things to do with
> >my life than stand around pontificating about my LSAT score, which
> >was the common theme of conversation when more than two were in
> >the same room.

Kjeld Hvatum:
> In that case, don't apply to Harvard, MIT, or Caltech, where SAT
> scores etc. pop up in many conversations the first few weeks. ...

I went to one of those.  It was kind of handy, being able to weed out
the utter geeks in 60 seconds.  It saves time when you have a couple
of hundred to evaluate as potential new residents.   :-)

For the record (what, nobody's keeping records??), I've been an
active member of Chicago Area Mensa for 2 years, have attended 2 RGs
and an AG and haven't yet heard anyone talking about their test
scores.
__________________________________________________________
Matt Crawford       matt@severian.chi.il.us       Java Man

From: Dave.Aronson@p11.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: A newcomer...
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 11:50:44 -0500

eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager) writes:

 MJE> I don't think anyone has been archiving rec.org.mensa.   That is an
 MJE> idea whose time has not yet come.  (The idea of preserving Scott Tai
 MJE> and flames back and forth for all posterity is somewhat disturbing.)

How apropos, preserving a horse's posterior for posterity....
From: platinum@montage.UUCP (Doug Swallow)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Distribution: world
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 15:27:12 GMT
Organization: Software Environments, Inc.

shapiro@cfsctc.enet.dec.com writes in article <1993Jan22.215350.3482@ryn.mro4.dec.com>:
> 
> 
> In article <1993Jan21.175104.12192@eagercon.com>, eager@eagercon.com (Michael
> J. Eager) writes...
> 
> >did little to oppose it, in contrast to Oregon, where virtually all of the
> >politicians opposed an anti-gay initiative.
> 
> NOT ANTI-GAY, ANTI-GIVING-SPECIAL-RIGHTS-FOR-GAYS-THAT-HETEROS-DONT-HAVE
> 
> I perceive it to be a significant difference.

You have apparently fallen victim to the religious right and their lies about
what Colorado's Amendment 2 is all about.

The laws which would have been nullified had a judge not issued an injunction
against Amendment 2 from being signed into law did not give gays, lesbians
or bisexuals any special or extra rights. They prohibited certain
discriminatory behavior from taking place simply because of an individuals
sexual orientation. There is a difference. You might say heterosexuals don't
have that protection, therefore this is some "special right." No one has
ever claimed that heterosexuals fall victim to this sort of discrimination.
Don't doubt for a minute that if there was a general feeling that heterosexual
discrimination went on, that there wouldn't be some sort of re-affirming
law passed prohibiting it.

Some also argue that existing laws are in place to prevent such discrimination
from taking place and there is no need for these extra redundant laws.
Perhaps this is the case, but often it depends on an interpretation and is
therefore unclear as to just whether or not such laws can be used in each
circumstance, since they don't specifically mention a class of discrimination
which most everyone acknowledges does occur.

Get personal for a moment. Just what do you, personally, lose by there being
a prohibition in law against discrimination based solely on someones sexual
orientation? What might you gain by there NOT being such specific protection
against discrimination?

Someone who supports legislation like Colorado's Amendment 2 is loudly and
clearly stating they WANT THE RIGHT TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST THIS CLASS OF
PEOPLE. There's is no other effect of this amendment except to PROVIDE THE
RIGHT TO DISCRIMINATE BASED ON SEXUAL ORIENTATION.


--
/ Doug Swallow
|Internet:   platinum@montage.uucp     |Mail: 7927 Clubhouse Estates Dr.
|CompuServe: 75776,1011                |      Orlando, Florida 32819-5026
|Phone:      407-236-0153              |Fax:  407-352-3111

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: keith@shell.portal.com (Keith Jeffrey Kushner)
Subject: Re: From the Pages of Omni, Part II
Organization: Portal Communications Company
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:15:28 GMT


D
A
 I find it hard to believe a) that 60% of Mensans would fail to get
a correct answer to the matchstick problem, and b) that the problem
bears a direct relationship to IQ. 

Spoiler:
















Arranging the matchsticks to spell out "NIL" is one solution; perhaps not
the solution OMNI was looking for, but valid. And anyone who knows that
it's Latin for "nothing" would get it right, regardless of IQ.

OMNI's the magazine that mucked up the answers to a simple coin problem
a few years back, isn't it? 

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Organization: The Cat Factory
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 04:11:11 GMT

In article <C1817v.Gt1@world.std.com> apb@world.std.com (Al Beecy) writes:
}In article <1993Jan21.125452.23244@ryn.mro4.dec.com> shapiro@cfsctc.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro) writes:
I said:
}>>.. I'd far rather see my dues donated to MERF, or
}>>some other worthy cause, than frittered away trying to retain the
}
}Not no, but HELL NO! I expect my dues to be spent serving ME. Call me
}cheap and selfish, I don't care.

Me to.  I was making an either/or choice up there.

}>Hmmm. I guess I could be wrong. There is the case where someone puts a gun to
}>your head and threatens to kill you unless you join.
}
}Alright! Who told? Our new recruiting program was supposed to be secret!

We stole that one from the Scientologists.  I guess they noticed. (-:{

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                "If you can't stand solitude,
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483  perhaps others find you boring
Santa Monica, CA  90405                        as well."  -- Mark Twain
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Jealousy (from the pages of omni....)
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:57:54 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <C19z27.Dnv@cs.dal.ca>, kumar@ug.cs.dal.ca (kumar yelubandi)
wrote:
> 
> >From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
> >In article FGq@cs.dal.ca, kumar@ug.cs.dal.ca (kumar yelubandi) writes:
> >>
> >>     Mensans are no more gifted than their 'highest value' member, 
> >>     whereas non-Mensans have the potential to be more.  Which subset
> >>     would you rather belong to?  
> >When you refer to people as members of sets you dehumanize them and 
> >diminish them in every way.  You set up a false comparison that Mensans
> >are some sort of monolithic group that lacks potential, compared to 
> >non-Mensans.  
> 
> 	If you are eager to get offended, I am eager to apologize.
> 	However, it is not I who seeks to classify.  I'm only 
> 	interpretting that which is already classified, ie. by 
> 	MENSA's own pseudo-quantification of human beings.   
> 	(what is it...the top 2% of test-taking individuals or 
> 	 something?)
> 
> 	If the charter of MENSA is not an attempt to find a 
> 	subset in the universal set of human beings, then what 
> 	is it?  Am I dehumanizing them or are they dehumanizing
> 	me by insisting I pass some artifically-determined 
> 	criteria for membership? 

Do you consider a high-school diploma or an academic degree dehumanizing? 
Do you consider passing the Bar exam or medical-licening exams
dehumanizing?  Do you consider being a Life Master of the American Contract
Bridge League dehumanizing?  How about being a grand master at chess? 
These are all "artificially-determined criteria" for membership and/or
certification.
 
> 	As far as suggesting that MENSAns are some sort of monolithic
> 	group (set) that lacks potential...these are your words.
> 	All I said was the intelligence of MENSAns is upper-bounded
> 	by the intelligence of their highest-scoring member 
> 	(IQ is implied here since this seems to be the most frequent
> 	barometer of reference);  whereas an upper bound does not exist
> 	for non-MENSAns (possibly because we recognize this to be an
> 	absurd injunction against the mind's free expansion).  

First of all, that is not what you said.  You said that "Mensans are no
more gifted than their 'highest value' member," which is not the same
thing.  Even if that is what you meant, it is not true.  Mensans are not
upper-bounded by the intelligence of their highest-scoring member.  If
Mensans were so upper bounded, that would mean that no one with a higher
score would be eligible for membership.  This is patently false.


+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                         Boycott Colorado                            |
|     These are my opinions, and not necessarily any one else's.      |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 02:14:59 GMT

In article 23244@ryn.mro4.dec.com, shapiro@cfsctc.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro) writes:
>
>In article <1993Jan19.205357.16959@ttinews.tti.com>, hollombe@polymath.tti.com
>(The Polymath) writes...
>
>>After reading all your posts on this subject, I can only conclude
>>what you're really asking is for Mensa to do something to retain _your_
>>membership.  Frankly, I don't see why we should bother. 
>
>Neither do I. 
>
>If yours is the representative opinion of the majority of the Mensa membership,
>then I, and members like myself, who, through current circumstances are unable
>to participate as fully as they would like, and who expect a certain value for
>their dues money, can now put to rest that anyone truly cares about retaining
>our membership.
>

There is an unfortunate amount of this attitude in Mensa, and in every other
organization.  I think of it as the "Love It or Leave It" from the bumper stickers
which used to be popular.  The attitude is one that tends to reject anyone who
mentions any dissatisfaction with the organization.  This only exacerbates the
situation.

To give The Polymath the benefit of the doubt, I believe that he is interested
in improving Mensa and in retaining members.  He may read into your posts an
attitude where there is nothing that can be said to keep you as a member, that
your decision has been made, and that you just want to see people jump through
hoops attempting to respond to your complaints.  I don't see you doing this, but
he may be more perceptive than I.


---
Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: kumar@ug.cs.dal.ca (kumar yelubandi)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Jealousy (from the pages of omni....)
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:44:27 GMT
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada

>From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
>After following this topic here, and similar ones here and on other
>electronic forums and in person, I have come to one conclusion:  Those
>people (whether they are in Mensa or not) who continually bash Mensa and
>Mensans as elitist, anti-social, or whatever, are seriously deficient in
>those same characteristics which they say that Mensans Mensans lack.  They
>are divisive and are forever trying to find fault with everyone but
>themselves, and rarely contribute anything positive.  Those of them who are
>in Mensa would do themselves and Mensa a great service by leaving the
>organization, and by ceasing to have any contact with it once they do
>leave.

>I do not include in this categorization those Mensans who find fault with
>the organizational structure and/or management/administration of the group;
>they are, in their way, trying to help the organization, even though they
>are not always right.

>+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
>|                         Boycott Colorado                            |
>|     These are my opinions, and not necessarily any one else's.      |
>+---------------------------------------------------------------------+


	I find it hard to reconcile in my mind, your ethically sound
stand against homophobia and sex-orientation discrimination inertia;
and your ethical incontinence on the issues of self-worth and egomania 
(the report on second-hand smoke came in last week...the one on 
second-hand egomania is due out soon...grab a copy)
	
[	Frankly...this whole Mensa brew is getting a
	bit stale.  When I first joined this newsgroup 
	a little while ago, I thought...well, this is
	harmless enough...interesting people talking
	about interesting things at an interesting
	level of language...then came a whole rash of
	postings on IQ tests and Marilyn Vos Savant
	and well...let's just say the picture is quite clear
	now....							]


	Kumar

			
		   
-- 
                                ********************************************
   Kumar Yelubandi               **  A wise man learns more from a fool  **
   (good wines = good times!)    **  than vice versa...or so they say    **
   ...in the year 2525...        **           -  Drink up -              ** 
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Jealousy (from the pages of omni....)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:35:48 GMT

In article <11453@baird.cs.strath.ac.uk> imcc@cs.strath.ac.uk (Iain McCord) writes:
>gilbert.m.stewart (gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com) wrote:
>: And, as with your stopwatch, there is a chance that the future performance
>: will not match the past, but that is improbable.  Not impossible,
>: improbable, just as every measurement ever done of anything.  This
>: is waste of time.
>
>  It has been shown that it's possible to increase the score on an IQ test
>through practice.  A person who knows the reasoning behind a given problem
>has less work to do than one who must first decipher the question, and then

Not surprising.  I think this kind of thing mucks up the test.  But it's
inevitable that people would try it.  Probably the reason the test is
guarded (or at least the scoring/answer manuals) so by psychologists.
Multiple takes, I think, are discouraged as well, aren't they?
Also, what kind of difference are we talking?  Significant or within
the basic error range of the test?  Just curious.

GMS