From: usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns)
Subject: Re: Oct 1, our National Day
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 15:05:01 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.032750.25165@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> cqu@ringer.cs.utsa.edu  
(Chang-ning Qu) writes:
> In article <1992Oct7.210928.17292@news.acns.nwu.edu> usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu  
(Usenet on news.acns) writes:
> >In article <1992Oct7.190043.12944@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> cqu@ringer.cs.utsa.edu  
> >(Chang-ning Qu) writes:
> >> In article <1992Oct7.154640.11516@news.acns.nwu.edu>  
usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu  
> >(Usenet on news.acns) writes:
> >> >In article <1992Oct7.054042.8908@ringer.cs.utsa.edu>  
cqu@ringer.cs.utsa.edu  
> >> >(Chang-ning Qu) writes:
> >> >> In article <1992Oct6.220438.26658@news.acns.nwu.edu>  
> >usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu  
> >> >> 
> >> >>     Another nonsense from Carl since he mixed good and bad as a
> >> >> stuff. Don't be "wan2 shi4 bu4 gong1" (seeing everything is bad
> >> >> and wrong). Patriot and traitor are not so called ultra-leftests
> >> >> or ultra-rightests, not to mention comparing with beggars, prostitutes
> >> >> and religiously crazy people(real nonsense). If this Carl's logical
> >> >> ability alright? (I read many his postings and found him almost
> >> >> always using toggling logic (i.e. NOT in Boolean algebra) to
> >> >> the points that most people think to be right and expressing the same
> >> >> or agreements to those strange and garbage-like postings). I don't want
> >> >> giving prescription to this guy, but one thing I am going to 
> >> >> remind you who is hero, who is funk, who is good, who is bad,
> >> >> people will have their judgment. 
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Hey, Do you know a lot of patriot CSS in this net zealously claim that  
Tibet  
> >> >and Inner Mongolia parts of China (possibily true) and the Tibetans and  
> >> >Mogolians are Chinese. So, tell me how Yue Fei showed his patriotism by  
> >> >fighting ruthlessly against Nuu Zhen minority in the north to save an  
> >already  
> >> >dacayed Southern Song Dynasty. If Yue Fei had had succeeded, then  
probably  
> >we  
> >> >would not proudly have had Tebit, Inner Mongolia and even Manchuria as  
our  
> >> >territories. To me, histroy is just something happened in the past and  
> >> >historical figures like Yue Fei is nothing more than Wang2 Po2 (old lady  
> >Wang  
> >> >who helped Mr. Ximen and Ms. Pan1 Jin1lian2 poisoned Wu3 Da4lang2). What  
Yue  
> >> >Fei did might have been good to China, or might have been very bad. No  
one  
> >> >knows. Just as nobody know if it is good thing or not for the British  
> >warships  
> >> >knocked open China's gate by cannons. 
> >> >
> >> >I just want to be realistic. To me, if people can enjoy good life, then  
the  
> >> >government is good. Otherwise, it is bad no matter how many beautiful  
> >slogans  
> >> >they chant and how much patriotism some people in the government show or  
> >> >pretend to show. ask yourselves, we the people, like other living  
species,  
> >live  
> >> >in this very earth for what?
> >> >
> >> >Carl
> >> > 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>    Carl, you really confused me your intellegence. 
> >>    Yue Fei was a hero thousands years ago for 
> >>    anti-invasion from  then-foreigners(though today
> >>    they became a member as minority of China). 
> >>    If you don't review the history with time coordinate,
> >>    you couldn't get any correct results(conclusions) on
> >>    every history events(because they are passed, therefor,
> >>    old). That's really stupid. It seems you are in engineering
> >>    major, I am very supprised you logical ability. I just hope
> >>    you don't blame old Newton for some of his out-of-date laws
> >>    on sciences!
> >> 
> >>    our 
> >
> >
> >Oh, boy! Apperently you are trying to convince me that Yue Fei was/is a  
hero.  
> >But, the point is different people have different standards towards hero. To  
me  
> >Yue Fei was/is not. I don't even think there was such a general Yue Fei in  
the  
> >history as glorious as the one in the legend. He was another Lei Feng. In  
fact,  
> >giving the situation in later Song Dynasty, it was not a very good idea to  
> >spend all the money on military to drive Nuu Zhen out of northern China. It  
> >would have been a better idea to make tempory peace with Nuu Zhen while gain  
> >more strength. I am not saying Qing Kui was good. But, blindly saying all  
> >people to show or pretend to show patriotism are good. Sometimes, on the  
> >contrary, blind patriotism ruins a country.
> >
> >Again, things happened in the history are really difficult to judge. It is  
just  
> >like you walk on a road and meet a cross (or two branches of roads), you  
choose  
> >one branch and continue walking. Your decision to choose one branch also  
means  
> >your decision to abandon the other branch. Maybe the other branch is much  
> >flater, wider, with much more beautiful scenery. But you forever miss the  
> >chance to see the scenery along that branch. It's just like "an old man lost  
a  
> >horse, how do you know that it is not fortune". If you realize this, than it  
is  
> >not difficult to think that Yue Fei is not more than Wang2 Po3 (old lady  
Wang).
> >
> >What is important is now, not the past. As long as you are free and happy  
now,  
> >why bother think that your father or grandfather may be beggars (which was  
not  
> >very uncommon to those who later became communists).
> >
> >
> >Carl
> >
> >
> 
>  
>     Well, Carl, sorry, I feel totally dispointed on you.
>     I realized you are not the guy I should talk to. 
>     You are not serious any more. You just express youself
>     "xin4 kuo3 kai1 he2"(talking without thinking) on every
>     topic you involved in CSS. Why should I waste time and 
>     enery to communicate with an man I doubt innormal on mental
>     (sorry, but I am serious). I could understand those Chinese
>     non-Chinese netters, pro-CCP, pro-KMT, pro-TI, pro-China, 
>     pro-democracy, any way, people with different backgounds have 
>     different opinions, it is ok. At least people have some 
>     common basis to start exchange their own points of view.
>     But you seems without any common value of China and Chinese
>     and I cann't get any helpful and healthy idea from you.  
>     You have showed your all ability to curse communists (I don't
>     care!) but it is very boring and foolish to paint everything
>     with political colors! Even you don't let Yue Fei go!
>     Poor boy, if you lived in McCarthy's time, you would be
>     greatly appreciated by him. Oh no, he would not like a
>     guy without logical ability. Ok enough. Bye.
>   


Your honor, don't be so disappointed at me. That will probably hurt your  
health. You have your way of living and I have mine. Please don't sound like  
you are an old man who is so eager to educate youngsters. To me, Yue Fei, Qu  
Yuan, Wang Po, Zhu 8 Jie, McCarthy and so on are not important. I would like to  
emphasize on things happened now. What happened now in China simple does not  
make me feel good. I dislike people who try hard to search for excuse in the  
long Chinese history. That will not be a big help. It's your business to plunge  
into the ocean of Chinese history and swim for fun. But it is not mine. I am  
not a whale, I will get drowned. I would rather stand on the ground and face  
the things happened NOW.

Carl