From: msg7038@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michalis  Syrimis)
Subject: Re: Continuation on CYPRUS, Palikaria Terrorists and Makarios!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 03:13:11 GMT
Keywords: Palikaria, Enosis, PKK, Troodos Mts, South Cyprus

baysan@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Okan Baysan) writes:

From previous postings:
M. Syrimis.
>>Something that I have noticed from your postings is that you
>>get very upset on the idea of changes in the current map of Cyprus.

O. Basan
>As a matter of fact, I get very upset when Vasiliou claims Guzelyurt, the
>deadly crucial part of Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus which provides
>80% of the water needs of TRNC, let alone the citrus exports to UK and
>Germany. I get even more upset when I hear the current statements of black-
>gowned-Makarios-duplicate Chrisostomos claiming Girne and G. Magusa as 
>'Hellenic territory'. All my hopes about a possible federation get zapped
>when I see such behaviour and sheer greed in the significant majority of
>the Greek Cypriots. So I come to the conclusion that the map of Cyprus
>should stay like this for at least several generations in order for the 
>greed to die away and hopefully bring Cyprus a brighter future than the 
>1963-1974 period and its likely repetitions. 

If you hadn't mentioned water supplies and citrus I wouldn't have 
realized that you were talking about MORFOU.  See, we are not aware 
of the names that the Tourkification Process undertaken since 1974 
has assigned to towns and villages in the occupied part.  
For the same reason I have no idea what the other two places are,
although I can guess the first one KERYNIA.    
And another question, where does the rest 20% of your water supplies
comes from?

Regarding your amazement on the claims by the president of Cyprus
and archibishop Chrysostomos, let me just say that no Greek Cypriot
is going to accept a solution which will just ratify the status-quo.

It has become clear that what your leadership is trying to do is just
arrive at an agreement which will be legalizing the occupation and 
division of Cyprus, and at the same time giving even more rights to 
the Turkish Cypriots.

The hell MORFOU, KERYNIA, KARPASIA, and AMMOXWSTOS are HELLENIC TERRITORIES.
There was not a single Turkish Cypriot leaving in most of the above areas
before 1974.

Where do you see greed in all this? 
So you want us just to say ok what you've taken is gone, let's forget
about it and start with what you let us have......

A solution to the problem must guaranty the right of people from
both communities to own their homes and properties and also
the right to return to them if they so choose.  
When Mr. Denktash asked Mr. Vassiliou to "forget MORFOU" in
New York, he was basically asking him to deny the right of the
people from MORFOU (Morfites) to return.
> 
>>What figure of speech are you? 
>>Excuse my direct translation from the greek.  What I'm asking is
>>how are you related to Cyprus, are a Turkish Cypriot, a Turk from 
>>Turkey, a Turkish settler in Cyprus, or ....?

>Does it really matter? My 'figure of speech' as you define it, has nothing
>to do with the facts that are in front of the world's eyes. Let me ask you
>then. Do you have Turkophobia or have lost your orientation lately?

It may not matter in our conversation, BUT it DOES matter in the course 
of the problem.  Turkish settlers are completely xenoi (foreigners) to 
Cyprus and should not be allowed to stay in any kind of solution.

No, I donot have Turkophobia, I got over it after the first months of my
military service, during which i had to see the shining bayonets and
the hundreds of tanks beyond the Green Line for two years.
(can't see your orientation point ...)

>>I was in Cyprus when the coup took place.   

>Are you, by any chance, related to Palikari Sampson? Well, just for your
>information, he is free! What do you have to say about this, Michali?
>Do you approve of what Vasiliou did by letting him loose? If Vasiliou
>frees an ENOSIS (union of Cyprus with Greece) cheerleader like Nicos, then
>all I want to say is: OXI! OXI to Federation with Enosis minded Palikaria.
>Why should Turkish Cypriots start to worry about their own safety and security
>again when there will be a Palikari like Sampson wandering around and 
>claiming more innocent Turkish Cypriot lives? 

Your claims here are completely absurd!!!!
The ENOSIS monster seems to be something you are not willing
to discard from you postings eventhough it is completely irrelevant.

I donot agree with the release of Sampson strictly on the basis that he
had not served his sentence completely.

The struggle of EOKA in 1955-59 was supported by the great majority
of the Greek Cypriots, which shows that back then ENOSIS was the objective
of the Greek Cypriots. In fact, ENOSIS was far beyond of an objective it was an
ideal with which generations of people grew up, it was an ideal for which
many had died, many a times by the most cruel ways during the struggle of 
EOKA.  What has really fasinated me about those people was their character.
Most of them had no military knowledge what so ever, yet they chose
to join in a struggle against the most powerful nation of the world.


However, as I and many other people have told you this is now behind us.
It only serves as a reminiscence of the fact that tyrants no matter how
much stronger militarily can be defeated.........

>>Bollogna or cheddar cheese the truth of the matter is that the 
>>case is in the European Court of Human Rights, and prospects do not 
>>seem so nice for Denktash's Regime.

>Who cares? Where was 'European Court of Human Rights' when Greek/Greek Cypriot
>Palikaria were relentlessly killing the innocent and unarmed Turkish Cypriots
>during 1963-1974? Where was 'ECHR' when the Turkish Cypriot people of three
>villages near Famagusta were being slaughtered just because they were Turkish?
>And where was 'ECHR' when Vasiliou was releasing Nicos the Palik? Don't play
>games Michali, just open your eyes to the truth and use some common sense.
>The rest will come to you!

There is still time for anybody to take a case to the ECHR, and I do believe
he/she should do so? 
It is well known that attrocities were committed by both communities at
different times in the past.  I do not agree with any of them and I believe
that people who were responsible should be panished for their actions.

The point I am trying to make is that SOME Turkish Cypriots are now
fed up with Denktash and are even risking their lives in turning to
ECHR. This is what is really important, and not if the ECHR finds
the Denktah regime
or Turkey guildy of human right violation, as you very correctly pointed
out " who cares?", several such decisions have been coming up not only 
from courts but from more prestigeous international organizations, right?

>>Another correction regarding your greek.  The singular for palikaria
>>is palikari.
>Point well taken.

> 
>>The point is that we are not trying to take away the independence and
>>the sovereignity of nobody.  We only want to get ours back.

>You don't even accept let alone recognize the independence and sovereignty
>of Turkish Cypriots to start with. You have yours in South Cyprus as well.
>I guess you are not barking right now.

How can any country recognize independence and sovereignty of a state 
which was set up by military force, and in doing so it has violated
every single international law. This is the 20th century not the 
prehistoric ages when you had the power you could do what ever you want
and then have also people applawd you. 
Your "state" will be recognized only within a fedaral solution
which will be providing for all the "little things" I mentioned in
the past.
(I do not get your barking point either, run this to me once more, maybe is
my innate dislike for pets)

>>Are you really aware of todays attitude of Greek Cypriots for enosis with
>>Greece?  
>>I do not know of a single Cypriot who would like Cyprus to be united with
>>Greece.

>Then you don't know the facts and you don't know the truth Michali. But you
>have two big ears to listen to Makarios-duplicate Chrisostomos, let alone
>blood thirsty palik Aloneftis ('South Cyprus defense minister' in charge of
>buying missiles, helicopters and tanks). Period!

No point answering the ENOSIS part of the argument.  And please, my 
ears are not big at all.....A word of advice try to reduce your name
calling to people, you tend to be carried away..., and a request please
share with us the meaning of the word Palik, this is the second
time you are using it in this post.(Serdad Ar. refused to tell us so
far, he is the only other user of the word I know off..)

Gush, I really wish we did not have to spend one million dollars a day for 
buying all the things we do.  There lots of things, Cyprus could do
with a million dollars a day, better schools, new departments in the 
university (so that we could find a job when we go back,...).  Thinking
about it I wish I did not have to be in the army for 26 months, I could
do lots of other things too.

Think what is the reason for all the spending, and for the compulsory
military service, it will not be very hard to find it.  I will give
you a hint too..it's the same reason behind both the military spending and
the 26 month compulsory military service.

>>Maybe is time you try to find a different story to tell us...

>The story I want to tell in brief is the following Michali: The map of Cyprus
>has been changed for GOOD! Wake up and smell the roses! Fair enough?

Now you are talking........
Well my Tyrkish Cypriot or Turkish settler friend
we have been smelling the roses for some years now.  Remember though that
lots of things can happen to roses, they can dry out, or they can be 
even pulled out by the roots.

>>Talking about military powers in Cyprus.  Wasn't Cyprus 
>> who suggested that the Turkish Army be replaced with UN forces
>>with all expenses be payed by the Cyprus Government, and at the same
>>time the Cyprus National Guard be disintegrated. That sure sounds
>>like a very good proposal to me, and everyone else I know.

>The simple and sneaky idea behind that proposal, Michali, is the fact that
>Greek Cypriot sector is doing anything and everything to liquidate the 
>powers of the Turkish Guarantee. It has never worked and it sure will never.
>Even if you proposed to pave every square inch of Northern Cyprus with gold,
>the Turkish Cypriots would not have the guts to change the effective Turkish
>Guarantee. Period!

You are again being irrelevant.  The Guarantee of mother Turkey has nothing
to do with occupation forces.  How was it before?

>>Several "quotes" by Makarios deleted

>I wonder why. If you close your eyes to the truth, then get a pair of ear
>plugs as well. Do you have counter 'quotes' with sources and dates by the
>way, or do you just like to aimlessly whine?

You have very conviniently deleted my comment about your quotes being
warm and fresh out of a mass storage propaganda file.  It is the same
file from which Mutlu/argic draws all his references.  And I bet you
anything is the same file from which some time ago you posted the 
infamous "AKRITAS PLAN'.  By the way back then I asked you to tell us your
reference but you haven't done so yet. Now I am wondering why?


>>Your quotes are very hard to convince not just me but 
>>a Turkish Cypriot too.  

>It's hard to pound some facts and figures into your brain. Sounds like a 
>personal problem to me. 
> 

Thanks for your concern. Try to contain your flames.  I've come so
far alright I hope I can cope with my personal problems till the end.



>Cheers,
>Okan Baysan.
-- 
Michalis Syrimis
University of Illinois
Urbana-Champaign

Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,sci.classics