HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU (Terry Wong)
Subject: Re: Doug Christie
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 04:49:07 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.040022.13127@muddcs.claremont.edu>, byau@jarthur.claremont.edu (Ben Yau) writes:

|> 
|> I wonder how Jimmy would fit into the Sonics line-up.  for one thing, he would 
|> probably want a lot of money.  but would he get the playing time?  I see
|> a similar episode with Benjamin.  Big contract, but playing time in question.
|> Luckily, though, Pierce and Johnosn are getting old (or unluckily depending
|> on how you see it) and Jimmy Jackson would probably be groomed as the starting
|> shooting guard of the future.
|> 
|> Actually, i think the trade would work well with Seattle because Pierce hasn't
|> been doing too well from the games i have seen this Christmas break AND from
|> last year.  I think he is a ballhog.  On the break, when there's like a 3-1, 
|> Pierce could easily pass the ball to Kemp or someone else who is on the break 
|> but Pierce always takes it up for the shot, someitmes even drawing the offensive
|> foul. 

George Karl has been saying that he is trying to cut back on Pierce's minutes
because last year at the end of the season Pierce was pooped out.  Karl
considers that Pierce's career is winding down, so Jimmy Jackson could
definitely fill a position on the Sonics.

|> 
|> I think if the sonics signed Jimmy, and he proved to be the talent everyone 
|> thinks he is, then he could possibly take the starting shooting guard spot
|> right away.  Question is , how well would he really fit into the system?  he
|> sould definitley not be getting star minutes.... like I posted earlier, each
|> team member is getting less thqan 35 minutes a game..i think the average is 
|> somewhere around 20.

Karl says that getting enough playing time for each player is the biggest
problem on the team.  He says that the team is almost too deep, and
sometimes they play better when they have a few injuries.  

|> 
|> Finally, I don't know if Benjamin should be traded until King can play.  From
|> my friends up here in Seattle, they were telling me how King attended the Big
|> Man's camp, and before regular season started, he was running circles around 
|> Big Ben.  Although Ben doesn't get many minutes, he is useful at times.. and
|> I am still surprised that he hustles that much and people give him a bad wrap
|> (at the GS game, i believe I counted three , maybe two, times when Ben was in
|> and outhustled a GSW to a ball going out of bounds.)
|> 

This is a consideration, because Seattle is not very deep in terms of big men.
Other than Kemp, Cage, and Benjamin, they don't have any physical players.
Benjamin was really a non-factor against Golden State since he played
less than 5 minutes.

					terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: wgr@rti.rti.org
Subject: Re: Suns file protest in San Antonio loss
Organization: Research Triangle Institute, RTP, NC
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 18:59:38 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.172525.26868@ennews.eas.asu.edu> koehnema@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Harry Koehnemann) writes:

>In article <1993Jan11.201537.8664@tvnews.tv.tek.com> randyc@tvnews.tv.tek.com (Randall Cornwell) writes:
>>I heard that the NBA was not going to overturn the REFs call for the following
>>reason:  Rule is for a technical to be called, the ball MUST be inbounded.
>>This is what was stated during halftime of the TNT game on Friday Night.
>>Did anyone else here this?
>
>That's not true.  A ball is considered live in 3 situations. 1-ref throws
>ball for a jump ball. 2-ref hands ball to player for free throw. 3-ref
>hands ball to player for inbounds play.  On the tapes, it's obvious the
>ref hands the ball to a SA player with 5 other men on the court.  Majerle
>and Barkley come screaming about a technical and the ref takes the ball
>back.  Live ball, 6 men on court, other team calls it to the refs attention.
>Everything that needs to happen for a T.

Ernie Johnson is the TNT guy who was talking about this Friday night.
He quoted two different sources:  the NBA official rules and some other
document that is an officials' guidebook or handbook or something.

According to him, the official rules say just what Harry says -- the ball
is live as soon as it's "at the disposal" of the team that's going to throw
it inbounds.  But Johnson quoted the guidebook/handbook/whatever as saying
something like a technical should not be called until the ball has been
inbounded.

The two sources don't appear to agree exactly.  Johnson said the appeal
would most likely be denied.  It sounded to me like the NBA would choose
the interpretation that would back up the ref's decision.
From: khansen@staff.tc.umn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: BOX and NOTES: MN vs DAL 1/2/93
Date: 5 Jan 93 17:41:19 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota

1/2/93
Minnesota 103 Dallas 71

Dallas (2-23)
Player		MIN	FG	FGA	FT	FTA	TR	PF	PTS
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Smith		32	4	12	0	0	12	5	8
Howard		29	3	8	1	1	2	5	7
Davis		35	5	18	0	0	8	1	10
Iuzzolino	37	2	6	3	4	0	1	7
Bond		34	6	15	4	7	8	3	16
White		16	2	5	1	2	1	5	5
Moore		20	2	8	2	2	4	2	7
Hodge		10	1	4	0	0	2	2	2
Palmer		8	1	3	0	0	0	2	2
Bardo		11	1	5	3	4	1	2	5
Curcic		8	1	1	0	0	2	0	2

Totals		240	28	85	14	20	40	28	71

Minnesota (6-19)

Player		MIN	FG	FGA	FT	FTA	TR	PF	PTS
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Laettner	31	5	10	16	19	6	1	26
Person		28	4	8	1	3	3	2	9
Longley		16	2	4	0	0	5	5	4
West		24	7	11	1	1	2	2	15
Williams	20	0	1	2	2	3	1	2
McCann		23	3	8	0	0	10	1	6
Blanks		24	1	4	0	0	4	1	3
Smith		28	2	5	3	4	5	3	7
Bailey		16	3	7	4	4	3	2	10
Sellers		14	5	6	3	4	3	1	13
Spencer		9	1	2	2	2	3	2	4
Maxey		7	2	2	0	0	1	2	4

Totals		240	35	68	32	39	48	23	103

Assists - Minnesota 29 (Williams and Smith 5), Dallas 15 (Iuzzolino 6); Steals
- Minnesota 8 (Williams 3), Dallas 6 (Bond and Moore 2); Turnovers - Minnesota
14 (McCann 3), Dallas 17 (Iuzzolino 4); Blocks - Minnesota 9 (Laettner 3),
Dallas 5 (Smith and White 2) ; 3 FG - Minnesota 1-6 (Blanks 1-3, Laettner 0-1,
and Person 0-2), Dallas 1-4 (Moore 1-2 and Iuzzolino 0-2) ; FG% -  Minnesota
.515, Dallas .329; 3FG% - Minnesota .167, Dallas .250; FT% - Minnesota .821,
Dallas .700; Technical Fouls - None;
A - 18,106


Dallas			19	12	17	23	71
Minnesota		19	26	30	28	103

Notes:
------

1)  Minnesota Club Records Set or Tied:

	Largest Margin of Victory: 32 Points (Old record 29, 106-77, 11/9/90 vs
Cleveland)
	
	Fewest Points Allowed: 71 (Old record 74, 101-74, 12/2/89 at Cleveland)

	Fewest FG Made Allowed (tied): 28 (Previously: 28, 3/15/90 vs New York)

	Fewest Points Allowed, 2nd Quarter (tied): 12 (Previously: 12, 12/4/90 vs
Indiana)

	Lowest FG % Allowed: 32.9% (Old Record: 34.1%, 12/10/92 at Dallas)

2)  Individual Records Set or Tied:

	Most Free Throws Made (tied): 16, Christian Laettner (Previously: 16, Tony
Campbell, 12/17/89 vs Utah and 3/8/90 vs LA Clippers)

3)  Rookie Records Set:

	Most Free Throws Made: 16, Christian Laettner (Old Record: 13, Sam Mitchell,
4/22/90 at Denver)

	Most Free Throws Attempted: 19, Christian Laettner (Old Record: 14, Sam
Mitchell, 4/22/90 at Denver)

4)  Career Highs

	Bob McAnn: 10 Rebounds

-----------------------------
-Kevin Hansen----------------
-Minnesota Twin Family Study-
-University of Minnesota-----
-khansen@staff.tc.umn.edu----
-----------------------------
Contact: University of Minnesota Women's Basketball
From: davidy@sumax.seattleu.edu (Stimpson J. Cat)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Sonics' draft picks
Keywords: Sonics Seattle
Date: 11 Jan 93 14:22:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: sumax.1ito3nINN3q6
Organization: Seattle University
NNTP-Posting-Host: sumax.seattleu.edu

In article <1993Jan10.073834.25290@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9041679@henson.cc.wwu.edu (brian h. harper) writes:
>Anybody know what the situation is on the Sonics' future draft picks? Now
>that the tradefest seems to be over, I'd love to know where they stand,
>especially for this year's draft. Are they back to their own picks, or do
>they have more or less? I know it's pretty early to be thinking about the
>draft, but I'd love to see the Sonics make a deal for a top draft pick to
>try and acquire either Montross or Webber. Though they play different styles
>of center, either of them would fit in well with Seattle. Webber will
>probably play power forward in the NBA, but in Seattle, with Karl's "small"
>mentality, he'd be a perfect center. Imagine both Webber and Kemp in the
>same backcourt. Makes me shiver. Anyway, please post the draft info!
>
>-Brian Harper
>n9041679@henson.cc.wwu.edu
>
>

	Some fellow reported on KJR950 (the local sports talk station and
Sonic home station) that Seattle could get a '94 lottery pick (if Philly or
somehow Phoenix) ended up there, but in '93 Seattle will not get one. Not
knowing all the particulars of Bob Whisett's perversely complex transactions, 
I can't tell anyone the whys and wherefores, but this is the end result this
fellow explained.

	Webber might be a Karl center- that's because he's a true power
forward, not a center. If Montross is a true center, Karl will have little
use for him. I daresay if Seattle had pulled off the fabled Olajuwon trade,
Hakeem would be demanding another trade in about two months, once he found
his minutes reduced to about 30 per game and found out he would only touch
the ball 10 times a night on offense. To be sure, Hakeem is far more
gifted athletically than Benjamin, but he's still a big man and I can't think
of a true center around that fits happily into the Karl scheme. Of course any
of the elite athletic centers like Robinson, Olajuwon, Ewing, or Shaq could
play, but I would wager their numbers would be way down. The Karl system just
isn't geared for a center, and I doubt any true center would seem to "give you
your money's worth" in his system. 



				David L. Yee
			email to:davidy@sumax.seattleu.edu
From: dickh@tribe.esd.sgi.com (Dick Harkness)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Re : IN MEMORIAM : Johny Most
Date: 5 Jan 93 19:48:58 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

|> I have to admit your train of thought is similar to the Challenger launch.
|> 
|> -Mark

OK, his drivel wasn't worth much, but your comment above is tasteless at worst.

Dick Harkness
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: chettri@huey.udel.edu (Expressio Veri)
Subject: Conspiracy theories
Summary: Pynchon
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:38:44 GMT

>In article <5914@osc.COM> ashwin@osc (Ashwin Honkan) writes:


>LAL   27  852   646       +206  +7.62     103.6    102.6    +1.0 
>
>Why don't they change their name to the 'LA Saints', poor souls who
>never foul but get beaten up every time ? Or have the refs forgotten
>that Magic 'I never fouled anyone in my life' Johnson has retired ?

Conspiracy theory # 1:

I heard that David Stern decided that the Lakers were going to win
the championship this year since Magic was planning a come back.
However, Earvin did not. Unfortunately Stern forgot to change his
previous orders or it hasn't yet trickled down to the refs. yet.

Conspiracy theory # 2:

I heard that the post-up rules were changed this year. This is because
of post-up players like Shaq, Mourning, Gugliotta, Lattner and Byron
"Weight Lifting" Scott. Naturally, the Bulls suffer since they don't
have a true post up player like Scott. The other teams aren't good
enough to reach the finals, but "Great" Scott is on the Lakers and
will get all the breaks on the way to winning his first post-season
MVP and helping the Lakers to win their first title of the 90's.

Samir
From: robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Re : IN MEMORIAM : Johny Most
Date: 5 Jan 1993 21:06:10 GMT
Organization: Your Guess Is As Good As Mine...
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: halcyon.aero.org

In article <2360@hsdndev.UUCP> nhmas@gauss.med.harvard.edu (Mark Shneyder) writes:
|
|So where did you learn to become a headknob?
|You're posting your drivel again. Perhaps I will contact your mother
|myself :-)

Ok, and when you talk to her, tell her how much I enjoyed buttfucking
your sister, will ya?

|I have to admit your train of thought is similar to the Challenger launch.

Is that *really* the best you can do, Mark? Jeez, I guess any idiot can
get into Harvard these days.....

			R.S.

PS     Sincere apologies to the net, but someone has to.
From: cb338@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Woo-Ming)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Doug Christie
Date: 7 Jan 1993 00:14:20 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Does anyone know what has happened to the former Pepperdine star?  Has
the Sonics given up trying to sign him?

Mike
-- 
*** Mike Woo-Ming, MPH            cb338@cleveland.freenet.edu   ***
 *** WSU School of Medicine          usr9742a@tso.uc.edu       ***
  *** UCSD, U of M alumni       mwooming@heartland.bradley.edu***
   *******> "I was STUDYING!! I'm just checking my mail" <******
From: temoche@usuhsb.ucc.usuhs.nnmc.navy.mil (LRC MR. ABELARDO MITCH TEMOCHE)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: John Williams (LAC)
Date: 13 Jan 93 00:04:59 GMT
Reply-To: temoche@usuhsb.ucc.usuhs.nnmc.navy.mil
Organization: USUHS - Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences

Is he injured, didn't see him in the last box score. 
Has he shown any signs of getting back to be being the great player he once
was before his knee injury? The Clippers don't seem to be doing as well as I 
would have expected, I heard Manning wants to be traded. Any Clippers fans out
there?

Mitch Temoche 
(Bullets fan and John Williams fan)
From: n9041679@henson.cc.wwu.edu (brian h. harper)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Sonics' draft picks
Keywords: Sonics Seattle
Date: 10 Jan 93 20:56:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1993Jan10.205657.5461
Organization: Western Washington University

raghu@nairobi.eecs.umich.edu (Raghu Mani) writes:

>In article <1993Jan10.073834.25290@henson.cc.wwu.edu>, n9041679@henson.cc.wwu.edu (brian h. harper) writes:
>|> Anybody know what the situation is on the Sonics' future draft picks? Now
>|> that the tradefest seems to be over, I'd love to know where they stand,
>|> especially for this year's draft. Are they back to their own picks, or do
>|> they have more or less? I know it's pretty early to be thinking about the
>|> draft, but I'd love to see the Sonics make a deal for a top draft pick to
>|> try and acquire either Montross or Webber. Though they play different styles
>|> of center, either of them would fit in well with Seattle. Webber will
>|> probably play power forward in the NBA, but in Seattle, with Karl's "small"
>|> mentality, he'd be a perfect center. Imagine both Webber and Kemp in the
>|> same backcourt. Makes me shiver. Anyway, please post the draft info!
>|> 
>|> -Brian Harper
>|> n9041679@henson.cc.wwu.edu

>There is no point in even thinking about either Webber or Montross as Sonics
>since they are both almost certain lottery picks and given the way the Sonics
>are playing, they will probably end up one of the last 4 or 5 picks of the 
>first round.

I realise that, which is why I said I'd love to see them make a deal for one
of these guys. Remember the Sonics had the 2nd pick in the 90 draft 
(I forget now how they got the lottery pick) My original question about
what picks the Sonics have is still important.

-Brian Harper
n9041679@henson.cc.wwu.edu

>Raghu
From: nhmas@gauss.med.harvard.edu (Mark Shneyder)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Re : IN MEMORIAM : Johny Most
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:32:08 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: HMS

In article <1ict82INNl8q@news.aero.org> robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger) writes:
>In article <2360@hsdndev.UUCP> nhmas@gauss.med.harvard.edu (Mark Shneyder) writes:
>
>Ok, and when you talk to her, tell her how much I enjoyed buttfucking
>your sister, will ya?

Sorry,don't have a sister. But tell us about it anyway...For one-line
flamer you're pretty unoriginal. But please do on. I'm hoping for
better things to come from you,R.S.
 
>|I have to admit your train of thought is similar to the Challenger launch.
>
>Is that *really* the best you can do, Mark? Jeez, I guess any idiot can
>get into Harvard these days.....
>
>			R.S.

Geez,R.S.or Really Sick as they call you at the funny farm,I guess I'll stop
abusing you since you're really starting to snap. I should have expected it
from someone who is not playing with a full deck...

BTW,I am not in Harvard so I can't really confirm or deny the fact that
idiots get into it or not.

-Mark
From: niceswangern@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Armon Gilliam & Manute Bol
Date: 4 Jan 93 13:30:40 CST
Distribution: usa
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

In article <1992Dec30.183414.4318@cis.uab.edu>, beegle@ftp.phy.uab.edu (BadSpeller!) writes:
> In article <1hq637INN2os@mirror.digex.com> alexj@access.digex.com (Alex Johnson) writes:
>>In article <5160@equinox.unr.edu> alan@wrc.unr.edu (Alan McKay) writes:
>>>
>>>O.K., so what's up with Gilliam? Up until a couple of weeks ago, he was starting,
>>>and putting up pretty good numbers; then he dissappeared from the box scores for
>>>a game or two, and reappeared as a minor-minute player making almost ~no~
>>>contribution. Did he get hurt? Fall out of favor with Moe?
>>>
>>
> 
> Well having just watched the 76ers win 3 of 4 it is refreashing to see they
> finally have limited Gilliam's playing time. The only assist I have 
> ever seen him get is from Air balls. His lack of D does not help either.

I think I read in The Sporting News that Gilliam is "in Moe's doghouse".  
This is my only explanation for it, because he seems healthy.  I really 
don't mind the switch, though, with Philadelphia steadily improving and 
starting to win a few.  (Except for the game vs. Sacramento)
> 
> But it is with great uphoria (I had to try to spell this, am I close?)
> that I report that the sixers finally have a dominating center. NUTE!!!
> 
Funny you mentioned this.  When Philly played at Chicago last month, I 
watched the game on WGN.  On the pre-game show the mega-prejudiced Bulls 
announcers were talking about how the game should be a cakewalk for the 
Bulls, as well as the fact that Manute Bol was in the lineup for "comic 
relief".  The only credit they gave to the Sixers was to Hornacek and 
Hawkins - not for their supreme talent, but because they're originally from 
Illinois.  Boy was I glad when Philly won the game!

Getting back to Manute, that was one of the first games where he actually 
got some playing time.  He played some great defense, and since that time 
has become a strong rebounder/shot blocker and even scores once in awhile.  
I don't see him leading the 76ers to a 50-win season next year, but he is 
certainly underrated.

> 15 Rebounds the other night. He actually scored in on of the other games,
> and yes he did get an assist! 
> 
> Possible trade: Nute for O'Neil. It would free up space under the 
> cap for Orlando, since both centers are of equal stature.
> 
Yikes!

				Nate N.
				Somers, Iowa, U.S.A.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: raghu@nairobi.eecs.umich.edu (Raghu Mani)
Subject: Re: INSIDE SPORTS poll: best players by position
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:41:16 GMT

About the Inside Sports poll, I noticed that Barkley was listed by
some as a small forward and by others as a power forward - which 
brings us to the question of on what basis you classify someone as 
a small or a power forward - I mean how do you decide in which 
group to put guys like Barkley, Rodman, Manning, Johnson since they
have played at both positions.

Raghu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: tamada@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael K. Tamada)
Subject: Re: Doug Christie
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 04:15:23 GMT

In article <1ildovINNbcv@sumax.seattleu.edu> davidy@sumax.seattleu.edu (Stimpson J. Cat) writes:

>but Pierce still is the only
>guy on the Sonic team that can create a shot when there is no shot available,

     Hmm, what about Eddie Johnson?

   [...interesting analysis of Benoit Benjamin deleted]

>Benjamin can be used as a
>protector of the paint area, blocking player's shots face up.Twice this season
>I have seen him all alone under the hoop facing a fast-breaking opponent
>intent on dunking the ball (Vernon Maxwell in the early season for one, can't
>recall the other) and Benjamin rejected the dunk attempt. If you want a
>intimdiator patrolling the paint, Benjamin is the only Sonic who can do this.

     True enough.  However Benjamin in a similar situation became Laker
highlight fodder when Anthony Peeler grabbed a long offensive rebound and 
drove the lane and slam dunked on Benjamin.  This was more of a great
play by Peeler than a bad play than Benjamin however.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  |__	       o
  | W			   Mike Tamada
		  |\	   Institutional Research Office
		   \O	   Occidental College
		    |      tamada@oxy.edu
		   /|
		  | |

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: tamada@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael K. Tamada)
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 04:07:55 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.075845.51@pasadena-dc.bofa.com> centeno@pasadena-dc.bofa.com (R. CENTENO) writes:

>In article <1993Jan8.180724.20206@mprgate.mpr.ca> "A Couple of Questions",
>Steve Levesque asks 
>
>	Things like 3 seconds in the key I don't think are considered 
>	turnovers.
     
     Yes they are.  At least the Philadelphia 76ers Statistical Yearbook
counts them as a turnover, charged to the offending player.  Think
about it:  what good reason could there be for NOT considering them
turnovers?  3-second violations, 5-second violations, 10-second
violations, and 24-second violations:  they're all turnovers.  The last
3 are team turnovers, not individual turnovers.

>>4) Can goaltending be called on a missed Free Throw Attempt.
>
>	Yes.  If the ball is above the rim, and the defence pulls
>	it down, it is Goal Tending.  If the offence tips the ball in, 
>	or slams it down while the ball is still above the rim, it is
>	offence interference.

     This answer is not complete, although I find the whole question
bizarre:  how in the world could anybody goaltend, or block, a free
throw in the first place?  Players aren't allowed to block much 
less goaltend free throws -- why do you think they're called FREE
throws?  When was the last time you saw defending players jump up
and try to block a free throw?  They don't do it, because it's
illegal:  Rule Number 10, Section Ie of the NBA Rules states:  "No
player shall deflect or catch the ball before it reaches the 
basket or backboard on a free throw attempt."  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  |__	       o
  | W			   Mike Tamada
		  |\	   Institutional Research Office
		   \O	   Occidental College
		    |      tamada@oxy.edu
		   /|
		  | |

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro