HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rollhaus@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Charles Rollhauser)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What are some famous actor's guns
Date: 7 Sep 92 20:46:16 GMT
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD


In rec.guns, jlw@mtuxo.att.com (Joseph L Wood, Iii) writes:
#In article <9209042315.AA01955@cs.utexas.edu> MARTYZ@IDUI1.CSRV.UIDAHO.EDU (Mar
#ty Zimmerman) writes:
#
#I have enjoyed reading Donald Hamilton for many years.  I have most
#of the Matt Helm stuff including on novel where the protagonist is
#a custom gunsmith with a peculiar ailment and another book of non-
#fiction called "Donald Hamilton on Guns and Hunting."
    I thought I had read all of Hamilton's stuff. What's the title of
the one about the gunsmith?

#I haven't seen anything by him in the new book racks in the
#bookstores for several years.  Does anyone out there know if he's
#still alive and writing?

    You're in luck! I just picked up "The Threateners" in my local bookstore.
It's dated SEPTEMBER 1992. Not as good as some others, but still worthwhile.
Hamilton is one of the few authors who is sensible about weapons and
their use in combat. I'd walk a mile to read one of his stories. The
added realism is icing on the cake.

#
#Joe Wood
#jlw@mtuxo.att.com

Chuck Rollhauser
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Mossberg jamming
Date: 9 Sep 92 21:27:51 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <1992Sep4.170519.10925@sequent.com> sequent!ocsqnt!winter@uunet.UU.NET (Robert Winter) writes:
}I recently purchased a Mossberg Maverick 12 guage short barrel shotgun.
}I got some snap-caps to make sure that the thing worked correctly.  The
}thing jammed about half of the time when pumping the shell into the
}chamber.  Am I likely to have jamming with real shells (I am planning to
}test it for real soon)?  Are snap-caps not meant to be used in this way?
}I noticed that they get pretty beat up in this process.

I don't know about shotguns, but snap-caps are the only thing my SIG has
ever jammed on (one failure to feed).  I don't think they're built to be
as smooth and reliable as real ammunition.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: edhresko@hresko.EOS.NCSU.EDU (ERIC DAVID HRESKO)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Eastern block weapons
Date: 8 Sep 92 16:54:27 GMT
Organization: Techno-Geeks Inc.



|>Now, about the SKS. I read years ago that the AK47 was so
|>advanced that the Russians wanted a back-up in case it did'nt
|>work out. Their experience in fielding a semiauto during WW2
|>was anything but confidence building. The action of the SKS was
|>lifted from a successful anti-tank rifle that was tried and
|>true.Hence,the SKS--- It's not the same kind of "battle
|>rifle" as a FN49 or a Garand but I have no doubt it will do
|> the trick under 300yds.


	Actually, the SKS and the AK47 were designed around a criteria put
down during the war for a new rifle.  The SKS never lived up to the requirements
, so was never adopted for front line use.  
-- 


Eric

******************************************************************************
Eric Hresko		* Mail:  edhresko@eos.ncsu.edu                       * 
Kanki House of Steaks   * Voice: (why would you want to call?) 1-919-821-5168*
Dishwasher 2nd Class    * HK Rules!!! (But a FAL will do in a pinch)         *
DISCLAIMER:  I don't wear sandals, eat granola, or tiptoe thru the Tulips    *
******************************************************************************
From: scott@sgisupport.lerc.nasa.gov (SGI_Junkie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Police Story (was Re: Summary: Concealed Carry...)
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:23:50 GMT
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center [Cleveland, Ohio]

In article <9209111841.AA01075@philabs.Philips.Com> rrw@philabs.philips.com (Roger White) writes:
#
#My dad was a guard (Holmes Electric Protection) in New York City, and in fact
#in Harlem, in the '40's and '50's and he carried a .38 (Colt Police Positive
#
#  I don't believe he ever fired a round on the
#job and he ain't around anymore so I can't ask his opinion.
#Rog


  My grandfather was a Cincinnati policeman around this time and
  earlier as was only fired at once in his career, and it was by
  another cop. (Those were the good old days.)
From: jagst18+@pitt.edu (Josh A Grossman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Black Talon ammo
Date: 10 Sep 92 12:28:11 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


I have an idea,  lets get a whole bunch of out enimies together, shoot
them with our favorite ammo, the call in a world famous forensic
pathologist, and Evan Marshall... that should quell this dispute....

Just Kidding...

.45 acp black talon is hotter than .45 acp hydra-shok.  Personally my guns
prefer the hydra-shok, so I'm sticking with federal

Later,
Josh
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Where to buy in Central NJ?
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:16:32 GMT


Don't be troubled by dealers who work out of their homes, or are only
part time. They still have to comply with Federal and state firearms
regulations.

If you feel more comfortable buying in a "regular" store, feel free,
but be prepared to pay retail markup, which can be up to 40 % over
wholesale. Also, if you're not sure of what you want, a stocking
dealer can be helpful. Not always; some people who work in gun shops
are truly ignorant.

When I lived in NJ, I bought most of my firearms through Bob Maroni,
who works out of his home in Montclair, NJ. As I knew what I wanted
and was willing to do the legwork (calling for prices, mailing FFL
+ payment) this worked out exceedingly well. He typically charged me
10 % over wholesale, sometimes less. Bob was also far more knowledgeable
WRT to guns than any stocking dealer in the area, except maybe the
folks at Navy Arms.

Some gun companies will only sell through stocking dealers.

I have the info on Salomon if you still need it.


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
"That's not true," Bill hissed to his lawyer. "The facts are-"
"Don't worry about facts, Bill, no one else here does. Facts can't
alter this case."       -"Bill the Galactic Hero" Harry Harrison
From: emba-news.uvm.edu!bashiti@kira.EMBA.UVM.EDU (Abbas J Bashiti)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Slam fire with an SKS
Date: 11 Sep 92 02:51:02 GMT
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility

#From article <9209100023.AA27298@mmddvan.mdd.comm.mot.com>, by booth@mdd.comm.mot.com (Greg Booth):
# 
# I have been hearing stories of quality problems with the Norinco SKSs,
# some of them concern the trigger group.
# 
# One story, told to me first hand, had a unloaded but cocked Norinco SKS
# drop the hammer just by being picked up. One loud click, and several
# people happy it was unloaded.
# 
     I have a somewhat related question...  Anyone out there had any experience
with the revcent Chinese copies of the 1911?  I just picked one up a few 
hours ago on a trade.  I've cleaned and lubed it, but haven't gotten to 
shoot it yet.   It seems to have a decent blue job, and i've never seen
such a beautiful barrel in a .45.  The barrel bushing looks nice and snug
but there is more slide play then my SA 1911 I traded a while back.  
Overall i'm just hoping for a functional gun which will shoot better
groups then I expect.  My SA 1911 wasn't a very good shooter, and lately
i'm being kinda spoiled since I recently got a SIG P220.  
     Any opinions?

later,
AJ
From: minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov (Minh Lang)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Warning: B&B in LA
Date: 16 Sep 92 00:31:09 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory

In article <23302@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> Kemasa, kemasa@ghost.hac.com
writes:
#I just thought I would mention my recent experiences with B&B Sales in
#North Hollywood. It sucks.

I have the same impression.

#You always have to take a number, unless you are an on-duty police or
#fire department person (and other special cases like knowing someone
#there, yes I saw that). 

We understand that to purchase a gun/barrels etc... then we
have to talk to the salesman. It's acceptable. But the thing is that
even you are buying something irrelevant you're still have to
take a number and wait forever. Last weekend I went there
to get a few pounds of walnut shell as it's the closest gun shop
from where I live, I had to take a number and wait for about 25 minutes!!

#Also they *demand* your physical address, post office
#boxes are NOT acceptable for return even when you paid in cash and they
#did not ask for any address when you bought the junk.

I was asked the same thing when I returned something even I paid
for it with cash in full. I just said that I don't have an address, I
told them that I was "homeless". Of course they knew that it wasn't
true, but they still had to return the money. I don't think there is a
law saying that a homeless man can't return the merchandise and
get a refund :-)) Use my strategy next time, it works fine :-)

#Their prices are good, but not good enough to be worth the hassles and
#the problems and when you add the wait, it is time to go elsewhere.
#They don't need your business, so they just don't care.

Note that their listed prices are "cash only". If you paid with a check
of credit card then they charge 5 to 10 percent more depending
on the merchandise. 

+------------------------------------------------------------+
 Minh Lang, Software Engineer  - Jet Propulsion Laboratory
 Instrumentation Systems Group - Instrumentation section 375
 Note:  My employer has nothing to do with what I said here...
+------------------------------------------------------------+
From: vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John S. Van Etten)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: AR-15 clones
Date: 13 Sep 92 23:16:52 GMT

A friend of mine is interested in building an AR-15 type of rifle for use as
his dedicated militia weapon.  Despite my valiant attempts to explain the
term Battle Rifle (i.e., boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-ting) to
him, his youthful vigor persists in the belief that 30 bee-stings is for
some unknown reason superior to 8 fatal wounds. :-)  Be that as it may (we
can only hope he will grow out of this delusion), he still wants to build
one.  In specific, he was leafing through an old issue of SGN and found an
ad for a company called Nesard out in Illinois that lists kits for $285
including all parts but a lower receiver (which I can get him for about
$75).  Has anyone ever dealt with Nesard?  Who makes their parts (are they
made in the USA)?  Has anyone out there ever assembled one of these kits?
How do you like it?

Note to humour-impaired AR-15 lovers:   :-)


John

--
******************************************************************************
               John S. Van Etten     vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu
       Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute  1000 MIPS GaAs F-RISC Project
       --"If sand didn't irritate oysters, there would be no pearls"--
From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: First Gun Suggestions?
Date: 9 Sep 92 13:08:14 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <L1ZLqB1w165w@undr.org> jr@undr.org (Jerry Rochard) writes:
#
#        What is the best FIRST gun?

Without doubt it's a bolt action single shot .22 rifle. It will teach
the important lesson of making each shot count better than any other
choice. This discipline is the marksman's fundamental truth. Also the
.22 rifle is cheap to feed and decent scores are easy to make. This
reduces the frustration level of the novice.

For a first handgun, I'd recomend a heavy .38 or .357 revolver or
a .45 semi-auto. The .22 pistol is a specialist's weapon with limited
appeal to the average shooter except for it's cheap ammo. Because of
the cheap ammo and small report, too many novices take the .22 too
lightly and pick up some very bad handgunning habits that will be
hard to break later.

Gary
From: towle@vssteg.enet.dec.com (Clark Towle Gunsmith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Remington 11-87 orange flash upon extraction
Date: 8 Sep 92 13:58:10 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <z+lnbwj.dionj@netcom.com>, dionj@netcom.com (Dion Johnson) writes...
#My Remington 11-87 shotgun often (especially when not freshly cleaned)
#throws a disconcerting amount of orange fire out the ejection
#port when I'm shooting.  No malfunction of any kind, just seems
#like a lot of powder is still burning in there after the
#load has left and the bolt has been kicked back.
# 
#Some friends have said this is normal.  If so, I can get used
#to it.  Happens with several different kinds of factory shells.
# 
#On the other hand, maybe I should have a stronger bolt assembly
#spring (the one in the stock that loads the bolt)?  Or could the
#gas operation mechanism be operating the bolt too soon?

 Not to worry. Your friend is correct that this is normal. No need to change 
the recoil spring as doing that will cause other problems.
From: chrisb@wang.com (Chris Bennet)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: First Gun Suggestions?
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:25:24 GMT
Organization: Wang Labs, Lowell MA, USA

ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:

#In article <1992Sep12.000841.22476@amc.com> reb@amc.com (Bob Brunjes) writes:
##
##Gary, with all due respect, this appears to go against everything I
##think I know about handgun shooting.  I have been shooting and teaching
##handgun for more than 30 years, so this is not _completely_ unfounded
##opinion, but I'll stand still for come constructive correction.
##
##Sure, I _do_ start new shooters with a .22 auto, for a couple of 
##reasons.  One, it's easier to teach the very soft grip you must have
##to get all the accuracy out of your gun, and this especially includes 
##big-bores.  Two, it's easier to erase the flinch response when the
##pupil is shooting a .22.  I guess, in view of what you've said, both
##those items will put you over the top, but let me defend them.

#Yes indeed, it is the "suspension" grip among other things that is
#characteristic of shooters who learn on the .22. That's very bad
#when you migrate to a weapon like the Glock 17 or Starlight BKS 
<stuff deleted>

#The finest combat masters advocate a two handed modified Weaver hold
#for steadiest and most rapid shooting. The gun hand is pushed into
#the off hand to create a stable dynamic tension. Now this isn't a 
#"death" grip either. Only enough pressure is used to steady the
#weapon under fire *and* recoil. 
<stuff deleted>

Perhaps readers of the net may be interested in Brian Enos' book, I think
it is called "Shooting, Beyond the Fundamentals". As far as what the
"finest combat masters" advocate, I believe things change.  Remember when
the experts advocated putting your finger on the front of the trigger
guard ?  (Many pistols still have the trigger guards designed to accomodate
this technique.)
  Just my two cents,
    Chris
From: vtroll%triton.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Vincent Trollinger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: MINI-14 MAGAZINES
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:28:32 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque


I need some information on factory 20 and 30 round Ruger Mini-14 mags.
I know they are not available to other than police depts.etc., but
has anyone seen any at gun shows for sale and how much were they?

 I would appreciate the help if you can!
 E-mail to vtroll@triton.unm.edu
(SOMEWHERE NEAR THE RIO GRANDE)

THANKS AGAIN !
From: sorrow@maple.circa.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Black Talon Bullets
Date: 6 Sep 92 01:58:38 GMT
Organization: Center for Instructional and Research Computing Activities


#I don't understand why people are concerned about the legal
#ramifications regarding the type, style, or name of the
#ammunition they choose to defend their and their loved one's
#lives with.  I myself would choose the must effective
#ammunition availiable on the commercial market to defend
#life and limb.  I am more concerned with what Mr. Bad Guy's
#intentions are rathar that any prosecuting attorney and a
#jury of my peer's.  Anyone out there who dos'nt feel the
#same and want's to rid themselves of their tool's of 
#destruction, drop me a line.  Besides, if your worried
#about the after affects of "dusting" a bad guy then you
#should'nt even qwn a gun in the first place.
#
#Just my $0.02 worth.
#
#

WHAT?  There is a difference between practical and reckless.  If you load
up your "Colt Super Python Death Dealer" with ".357 Magnum Flaming Death
Hollowpoints" and blow away some intruder, odds are, you WILL serve some
time in jail.  The reason?  You will be painted as a wanna-be Rambo/Hero
who killed someone else for your own personal glory.  It doesn't matter
what YOU think you were doing, or if the felon was armed with a 12 gauge
and holding your child hostage, if you are perceived by the judge/jury as
a wanna-be hero, any actions you took, although successfull, would be
perceived as reckless.  Woe to you if you have an extensive gun collection,
because then you are also a "gun nut" or a "survival freak" who was
"waiting for something like this to happen".  It's twisted, but that's
the American Way.

Worrying about the after affects of "dusting" a bad guy is SMART.  Honestly,
it wouldn't be THAT big a deal if you use 158-JHP instead of a "Starfire".
What makes a bigger difference -- the bullet or the placement?  And as
for your comment about "shouldn't even own a gun" -- people who don't
worry about the effects of their use of lethal firepower are by FAR the
ones who should not own firearms....your statement about disregarding the
effects of using your weapon are rather irresponsible.

Brian
From: SYSTEMM@FRED.ALHRG.WPAFB.AF.MIL (System Manager Wuest)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Slam fire with an SKS
Date: 9 Sep 92 21:27:45 GMT


   Labor Day a friend brought over his newly purchased SKS.  We cleaned the
   gun, then lubed the action with Break Free.  Worked it manually a few
   times to spread it around.

   We fired 10-15 rounds from the bench, checking the sights and group size.
   Not bad, but not so good, either.  About 1 - 2 " at 25 yds; an inch
   high and to the right.   We were using USA ball ammo.  Trigger pull was
   *extremely long*, but smooth, and broke clean.  Kinda light for a military
   weapon; I'd _guess_ somewhere between 5 and 7 #'s.

   Then my friend loaded 3 rounds, and started to fire off-hand.  On the first
   shot: BOOM! BOOM!.  He looked surprised!  I told him to safe the weapon and
   lets take a look.  Sure enough, there was only one round in the chamber,
   none in the magazine.  We found the first hole in the target easily enough,
   but had to do some searching for the second.

   I post this, as the ongoing thread on SKS (re: AK-47, Mini-30, etc) inquired
   about slam-fires.  This was my first experience with one of these, and the
   gun was new (and unfired) to the best of of our knowledge.   I have a friend 
   here at work who has fired 100's, maybe a 1000 rounds thru an SKS, with 
   never a problem.

==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==
|  Mike Wuest, Allin1, DDN, & VAX Systems Manager  SYSTEMM@ALHRG.WPAFB.AF.MIL |
|  Armstrong Labs, Logistics Research Div.         SYSTEMM@[131.28.15.14]     |
|  Comm: (513)255-8225    DSN 785-8225    (a.k.a.) MWUEST@ALHRG.WPAFB.AF.MIL  |
| Disclaimer: Opinions are like ears; everybody has a couple - these are mine!|
| Irony:  The same people who don't want to wait 24 hrs for an abortion think |
|         it's OK for all of us to wait 7 days for a gun.  Guess it makes a   |
|         difference on who you want to kill, and how you want to do it!      |
==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==


[MODERATOR: As I think I've posted here before..... I once had a 
double in an M1 Garand, scared the stuffing out of me.  Then it
pissed me off, since I screwed around for the rest of the afternoon
trying to get it to do it again .... :-) ]
From: bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Re: Hand-loads for defense (was Re: Occasional Dud in Glock 20)
Date: 10 Sep 92 12:28:56 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group


/ iftccu:rec.guns / forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) /  8:16 pm  Sep  8, 1992 /

#A very good post!  Let me add one thing: a better way to "not talk to the
#officers at the scene" is to have a prepared statement (prepared today,
#before you face the threat) to the effect of "I'm sorry, but I'm too
#shook up to talk right now -- all I know is that it was either he killed
#[me/her/him/...] or I killed him.  Can we talk more in the morning?"

Also good comments.  My slight refinement would be to avoid any
statement that is obvious and could cast any sort of shadow on yourself.
The responding officer will be quizzed by the investigating officer too.
It is important to establish the (correct) dynamics of the situation.
This does NOT (usually) include the fact that you shot somebody.  That
is kind of obvious.  I mean, here is a body leaking blood all over your
carpet, you are standing there with a smoking gun and you aren't denying
anything.  It is kind of obvious that you shot the S.O.B.  You probably
don't need to say so.  The important dynamic here is:

He attacked my kids with a knife..

He lunged at my wife with the club..

He pulled a gun...

You don't need to call attention to what you did, you need to clearly
establish that you were reacting to a self defense situation.  You want
to clearly establish that the person on the ground is the asshole, not
you.

As Andrew (and others) have said, restrict your comments to about that
much.  One of the well documented reactions to this sort of a stress
situation is diarrhea of the mouth.  There is a technical Latin term
for it, but that is about what it literally translates to.  Watch out
for it.  While the police and investigators are (hopefully) going to
try to be impartial, they are NOT your friends.  Anything you say CAN be
used against you.....

Rick.
From: nsc!jrr@decwrl.dec.com (Jerry Roe)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: The New Colt AR15s
Date: 5 Sep 92 14:57:20 GMT
Organization: National Semiconductor, Santa Clara

In article <9208282213.AA10159@enet-gw.pa.dec.com> berenson@cookie.enet.dec.com writes:
#Check out Colt's advertising for the 7.62x39 Sporters.  Their target is
#as an Eastern Deer Rifle where a round comparable to the .30/30 is both
#legal and suitable.  With that target, the 5 round magazine is quite
#suitable and reliable.  It is also a way to attack the "no sporting use"
#arguments of the antis and help defend the design....

No flame, Hal, just a point - arguing the "no sporting use" position of
the antis brings it down to their level:  that the only suitable use for
a firearm is "sporting".  The 2nd Amendment makes no mention of "sporting
use" and in fact is quite specific about its intent.  I don't know how
the antis came up with this idea, that if a gun doesn't have a "legitimate
sporting use" then somehow it's not "legitimate", but it doesn't hold water.
I'd have been amused to see one of them stuck with, say, only a Hammerli
.22 Short target pistol whilst in the middle of the L.A. riots earlier this
year...wonder how they'd have felt then about "only legitimate sporting uses".


Jerry Roe
jrr@nsc.nsc.com		...!{sun,pyramid,decwrl)!nsc!jrr

[MODERATOR: I think I detect something that should migrate... off 
to t.p.g. we go.....]
From: vtroll%triton.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Vincent Trollinger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Mini-14 Accessories 4 SALE
Date: 9 Sep 92 21:27:34 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

I have the following Mini-14 stuff for sale:
1. one blue scope mount w/ rings - - $25.00
2. one Choate folding stock for mini-14 or mini-30 - -$35.00
3. same as above - -$35.00
4. blue flash hider - - $10.00
5. stainless flash hider - -$15.00
6. two factory five round magazines (new) - -$10.00 each
7. one brass catcher - -$10.00
8. three factory 20 round magazines (used) - - $20.00 each

Please e-mail to: vtroll@triton.unm.edu if interested.
thanks