HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: manu@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Njan)
Subject: Re: M. D. Ramanathan
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 22:18:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.154640.25791@zip.eecs.umich.edu> srini@z.eecs.umich.edu (Srini Pichumani) writes:
>
>It is not correct to use the number of pre-rec cassettes as a measure of MDR's
>popularity. This medium became very popular in the 80s; and before it got
>economical/profitable for these companies to record the relatively less popular
>artistes (sometime in the 85-87 period), MDR had passed away. 

Your arguments explains why there are so few pre-recorded cassettes of MDR,
but that doesn't explain the lack of availability of them. On the other hand,
availability of GNB cassettes ( not too many, i should say ) does show that
GNB is still more popular ( for whatever reasons ) than MDR eventhough it's 
more than 25yrs since he died and that most people in our generation never
had a chance to listen to him live.

>The cassettes you see of Ariyakudi, GNB etc coming out these days are mainly 
>from the AIR archives. AIR made a decision to release these archives in cassette
>form a few years back. Hopefully, they will release cassettes of MDR's music too.
>

I hope soo too... but I'm more worried about whether someone will take the
trouble of bringing it out for such a small audience.

>Now coming to perceptions of MDR's music -- I have often found people kind of
>gung-ho about MDR's music; as though that gives them the ultimate stamp of 
>"connoisseurship". This is particularly irritating since the quintessence of

I should say that you are among snobs, then.

regards,
Njan
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Subject: Re: Ashish Khan
Reply-To: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 18:38:41 GMT

I heard Ashish with Zakir at Ali Akbar's college (AACM) in 1974 and have heard him many times on TV and radio in India. I beleive he passed away a few months ago (he was in his 50s) in India. Ashish was a fairly good sarod player and performed regularly around the world.

Dyanesh has also learned sarod and teaches at Khansahib's school in Calcutta. He has many many students and so doesn't et a lot of time for his own practice. I heard him several times in late '88/early '89 in Bombay when he played behind Ali Akbar. You could see that he knew how to play but didn't have the practice (this was confirmed when I met a sarodist who studied with Dyannesh for 8 years in Calcutta). Ken Zuckeramn who also played behind Khansahib played a lot better than Dyanesh. Those who think wes





terners can't play Indian music should check out Ken's CD with Zakir.

Pranesh plays tabla and is head of the AACM in California. I have a couple of tapes (released on Alam Madina, Khansahib's own label) where he has played tabla with Khanahib. I don't know who he learnt from..

Dyanesh and Parnesh are in their 40s (at least). Khansahib last year, at the age of 70, had a son from his American wife, Mary Khan !

On the topic of Khansahib's students, check out Brij Narayan (Ram Narayan's son). Brij learnt his sarod technique from Ali Akbar, but learnt raga development etc. from his father. Brij is EXTREMELY tayaar ! He has a few CDs out (including Nimbus). IMHO he is the best sarodist performing today.

Other excellent sarodist that come to mind are Zarin Daruwalla-Sharma and Budhadev Das Gupta (student of Radhika Mohan Moitra). 
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: manu@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Njan)
Subject: Re: Why are carnatic kritis mostly devotional?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 20:12:38 GMT


In article <1682EC64F.R2HMV@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU> R2HMV@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU writes:
>In article <9207231722.AA26682@cec1.wustl.edu>
>sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian) writes:
> 
>>
>>           Why are carnatic kritis mostly devotional ?
>>         ---------------------------------------------
>>                                - S.Pandian.
>>                            sp2@cec1.WUSTL.edu
> 
>The philosophy as advocated by vedanta and bhagavata puranas (including
>bhagavadgita) for the age of Kali or Kaliyuga is the path of Bhakti Yoga.
>That is why you find such great bhaktas in this age like The trinity,
>Annamacharya, Maharaja Swathi Thirunal, Gopalakrishna Bharathi, Kshetrajna
>Purandaradasa, Swami Haridas .. just to name a few. All these composers
>advocated the philosophy of Bhakti for the simple reason that it is easier
>to follow than other forms of yoga. Hence being a part of Kali yuga, this

Actually, Swathi Thurunal also wrote many "Padam"s for Mohiniyattam which
are more romantic than devotional... Some of the padams are regularly
used by singers in their concerts... "Aliveni" is an example...

regards,
Njan
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: srini@z.eecs.umich.edu (Srini Pichumani)
Subject: Re: Misra Chapu Tala
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 21:54:35 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.181611.25019@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> appa@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (ravi.ramaswamy) writes:
>Folks,
>   A question about Misra Chapu Tala (e.g. Nidhichala Sukhama, Janani 
>   Ninnuvina). Is there a Chapu Tala? The seven talas that I know are
>   Dhruva, Matya, Triputa, Eka, Ata, Rupaka, Jhampa along with the
>   five jatis giving rise to 35 different talas. Misra Chapu does not
>   appear anywhere (Adi tala also does not appear, but then Adi tala
>   is really Chatusra jati Triputa Tala).
>Ravi Ramaswamy.

ChApu tAlas are old tAlas too -- just as Adi tala. However with the 
systematization of the tAla structure into the sapta tAla system 
by PurandaradAsa (there are two other tAlas mentioned -- known as 
jhombada and ragaNa matya tAla -- which collapse into the
sapta tAla scheme), chapu tAlas collapse into a madhyama kAla 
(middle tempo) variety of the other tAlas.

Considered thus, misra ChApu is the madhyama kAla form of tisra triputa;
and khanda ChApu is the madhyama kAla variety of khanda eka tAla. 

"Laya" is the overarching concept to bear in mind. Talas, their "jAtis",
their angas, the tempo etc provide the
framework for vAggeyakAras (composers) to order their lyrics into a
particular "laya" structure. 

--Srini.

ps: The kriyAs or actions by which "laya" is adhered to -- i.e. the tAla,
the tempo etc -- are of course the most visually obvious features of this 
setup.
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: tmcfarla@fraser.sfu.ca (Tara McFarlane)
Subject: Re: List of CD dealers
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:18:31 GMT

in vancouver canada there are several shops selling indian cds on south main
street and north scott road in surrey. the price (at least when i last looked)
was a blanket $19 canadian for all cds, all taxes included.
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: jayasim@platypus.cis.ohio-state.edu (D Jayasimha)
Subject: Re: Why are carnatic kritis mostly devotional?
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:25:23 GMT

>In article <9207231722.AA26682@cec1.wustl.edu> sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian) writes:
>
>      I find that most of the kritis
>  popular and performed often in the
>  carnatic concerts are devotional in
>  nature and one can't help thinking
>  why people have written kritis mostly
>  singing in praise of God.

>                                - S.Pandian.

Not surprising, really.  Indian music is spiritual in character and what
better vehicle to express musical sentiments other than through bhakti.  
Another powerful reason is that almost all the composers of yore have been 
"bhaktas."  Purandaradasa, the Pitamaha of Carnatic music, who systematized 
the foundations of Carnatic music, was the most well known representative 
of the "dasa koota," a diverse group of bhaktas under Saint Vyasaraya.  
The Trinity (of composers) were either bhaktas or tantrics and so their 
compositions were dedicated mainly to their "ishta devatas."  The influence 
of the Trinity has been so powerful that later composers have not only 
followed the musical styles but also the lyrical styles of the former.

I must add that Purandaradasa was also a social reformer of his time and 
has quite a few compositions which are secular in nature (some of them are 
humorous too).  Of late, Balamuralikrishna has attempted a few secular 
compositions.

jayasimha
From: srini@z.eecs.umich.edu (Srini Pichumani)
Subject: Re: M. D. Ramanathan
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:46:40 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.062936.9815@colorado.edu> manu@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Njan) writes:
>In article <1992Jul20.232617.4469@colorado.edu> manu@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Njan) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul20.091648@IASTATE.EDU> sunder@IASTATE.EDU (Sunder B Athreya) writes:
>>>It is heartening to learn that you are an MDR enthusiast. I further agree with
>>>considerable following amongst the cognoscenti, all of whom appreciate the
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>I'm curious to know where you got that information from... seems like you
>have done considerable research to make such a statement...
>
>I got it from a small shop in Madras which exclusively deals in classical
>music ( that's all I saw ). They had "one" copy of the cassette I was 
>looking for. The shopkeeper later told me that though MDR was a great
>singer, his style isn't too popular among people. ( I guess he knows

Sunder B Athreya is quite right in saying that MDR had a considerable following;
I have heard MDR in concert on more than a dozen occasions in the timeframe 
80-83 and have always found crowds upwards of 200 people attending the concerts.
This is not a small number as you might think considering the halls where I 
attended these concerts -- halls like the Shastri Hall, Luz, Madras.        

It is not correct to use the number of pre-rec cassettes as a measure of MDR's
popularity. This medium became very popular in the 80s; and before it got
economical/profitable for these companies to record the relatively less popular
artistes (sometime in the 85-87 period), MDR had passed away. 
The cassettes you see of Ariyakudi, GNB etc coming out these days are mainly 
from the AIR archives. AIR made a decision to release these archives in cassette
form a few years back. Hopefully, they will release cassettes of MDR's music too.

Now coming to perceptions of MDR's music -- I have often found people kind of
gung-ho about MDR's music; as though that gives them the ultimate stamp of 
"connoisseurship". This is particularly irritating since the quintessence of
MDR's own style was understatement and certain dignity/reserve.
MDR's music was great alright, and fantastic at times. I have immensely enjoyed
it -- warts and all. I am referring to his vilamba kAla style, 
his deliberately understated style of music, and the classicism/bhAvam he
projected; and of course, his theatrics, comments on stage, etc 

--Srini.
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical,rec.music.indian.misc
From: jk87377@cc.tut.fi (Juhana Kouhia)
Subject: Re: Info on Indian Classical music CDs?
Followup-To: rec.music.indian.misc
Organization: Tampere University of Technology
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 10:58:19 GMT


In article <tmcfarla.712253146@sfu.ca> tmcfarla@fraser.sfu.ca (Tara
McFarlane) writes:

>nusrat fateh ali khan
>if you wish to keep things traditional beware of the nusrat cd, 'mustt mustt'.

I have heard only a couple of pieces; they are ok, but...

>much better in the style of 'mustt mustt' is an excellent tape i picked up
>in ajmer last month. it features what appears to be extended remixes of some
>of the songs on 'mustt mustt'. it sounds quite unlike anything else i heard 
>while in india so my guess is that it may be a pirated copy of something 
>produced in the west for future realworld release. 

Yes, this must be 'chalandar' or something like that; I don't have it.
If the album above is this; there should be a piece which
is extended version of Mustt Mustt album and it has female singers
(two or three in chorus) added and occasionally (three/four times) there's
short electric guitar solo with western drums and with modern synth sounds.

I like the piece because Nusrat has not put the western instruments
to the main piece; instead he keeps tradiotional Indian film/pop music
theme on and then separately adds 'artistic' music collage clips to the
piece.

Ok, r.m.i.classical is group is for classical music; the followup is to
rec.music.indian.misc.


Juhana Kouhia
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: manu@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Njan)
Subject: Re: Bringing Appreciation of MDR to the conscious level
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 20:29:49 GMT

In article <GFS-Gs@engin.umich.edu> srini@engin.umich.edu (Srinivasan Pichumani) writes:
>
>Actually the list of musical greats who are non-Sangita Kalanidhis -- 
>RAjaratnam Pillai, MAli, MDR, BAlachander, Lalgudi JayarAman etc --
			       ^^^^^^^^^^^
Balachander definitely made a lot of enimies with his attack on Swathi
Thirunal. Most people thought he was totally baseless in his theories
and made an ass of himself.

>title, the Music Academy Awards committee instituted a somewhat quixotic rule 
>-- that one from each of the Southern States will be awarded the title in 
>succession (I guess, regardless of their overall merit, seniority, & service 
>to the cause of Carnatic music); and the awardee, I think, was to be
>chosen by ballot, with all the members of the Music Academy participating.
>MDR was in contention for the award in the 83-84 season; however,
>he was overlooked and the award went to Sripada PinAkapANI [the guru
>of NedanUrI, Voleti, NUkala Chinna SatyanArAyaNa etc]; and MDR passed away
>in May 1984.

I always thought MDR was born in Palghat, in Kerala, which is also the
birthplace of so many other Famous Mucisians... If that's true, I fail
to see how MDR was in contention in 1983 with Sripada Pinakapani, unless
he was also from Kerala. I'm assuming the rule you stated is true...

>--Srini.

Njan
From: banerj@sundagger.lerc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
Subject: Re: Why are carnatic kritis mostly devotional?
Date: 31 Jul 92 14:05:49 GMT
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center

In article <1992Jul30.175833.5773@colorado.edu> parrikar@csn.org (Rajan Parrikar) writes:
>In article <1992Jul29.191638.9515@microsoft.com> umeshmo@microsoft.com (Umesh Mokate) writes:
[[Stuff deleted]]
>>. . . in khayaal singing, artists try to bring out the
>>mood of the raag rather than the devotional mood (i.e. words are given less
>>importance than raaga's abtract mood). So one does not feel the prominence
>>of devotion. If words are given importance, then it becomes a Bhajan. 
>              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>1) Not necessarily. Just listen to Pandit Jasraj. In his art, one finds
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Or to Dinkar Kaikini, for that matter!

>a happy marriage of lyrical beauty and classical technique. 

On the other hand, dhrupad singing, especially in (Dagarvani) alAp,
uses no words, merely syllables that remind one either of chanted
mantras or of the sound of the vINA. And dhrupad is one of the most
devotional forms of Hindustani classical singing!!

Many of the khayals have "devotional" lyrics too. 

>3) As someone (Jaisimha?) has pointed out before, Indian music IS
>spiritual in nature. It does not follow, however, that our music is
>sectarian.

Hear! Hear!!

Cheers

Amitava
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: R2HMV@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU
Subject: Re: Why are carnatic kritis mostly devotional?
Organization: The University of Akron
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 18:06:00 GMT

In article <9207231722.AA26682@cec1.wustl.edu>
sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian) writes:
 
>
>           Why are carnatic kritis mostly devotional ?
>         ---------------------------------------------
>                                - S.Pandian.
>                            sp2@cec1.WUSTL.edu
 
The philosophy as advocated by vedanta and bhagavata puranas (including
bhagavadgita) for the age of Kali or Kaliyuga is the path of Bhakti Yoga.
That is why you find such great bhaktas in this age like The trinity,
Annamacharya, Maharaja Swathi Thirunal, Gopalakrishna Bharathi, Kshetrajna
Purandaradasa, Swami Haridas .. just to name a few. All these composers
advocated the philosophy of Bhakti for the simple reason that it is easier
to follow than other forms of yoga. Hence being a part of Kali yuga, this
should not come as a surprise to us.
 
Other poets like Bharatiyar, Jayadeva, and others were primarily poets and
not classical music composers, though it is common to hear their compositions
in concerts. Hence, I think we should not include them in this discussion.
 
Bye now,
 
Hari                 r2hmv@akronvm.bitnet
From: srihari@sodium.cchem.berkeley.edu (Srihari Keshavamurthy)
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
Subject: Re: M. D. Ramanathan
Date: 23 Jul 1992 05:02:09 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sodium.cchem.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Jul19.211100.25507@colorado.edu> manu@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Njan) writes:
>Hi there,
>I am looking for someone interested in the music of late Sri. M D Ramanathan
>(MDR), who I think was one of the great vocalist ( carnatic style )

>I think it's a pity that a person of such talent went unnoticed by the
>mass, who were busy following the more mainstream musicians...
>
>So, if any of you out there wants to try MDR's music or if you want
>to exchange with me, please let me know. This is the least I could
>do to show my respects for the most unappreciated musical genius of
>carnatic music.
>
>Njan


I also am a great fan of MDRs but I don't understand why you say that
  "it's a pity that a person of such talent went unnoticed by the mass"
and "most unappreciated musical genius of carnatic music"
As far as I know he was much respected by carnatic music lovers. If you
mean by "mass" those people who just go to a concert to listen to 
musical acrobatics then you are right....but then who cares about them?:)
Srihari
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: chander@leland.Stanford.EDU (Chandar Venkataraman)
Subject: Begada and its parent
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 00:00:54 GMT

Hi:

This is probably on the lines of a question asked a couple of days ago
regarding janya ragas and their parents. Why is begada considered a
janya of shankarabaranam and not of Harikamboji, which has the "ni" of
begada.

Similarly, why is mohanam considered a janya of harikomboji? Why not
a janya of shankarabaranam or kalyani?

Are there any subtle rules that define this parent-janya relationship
or is this all just academic?

Thanks,
Chander.   
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: gopal@tamsun.tamu.edu
Subject: Re: MDR
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 01:00:29 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.181407.24826@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> appa@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (ravi.ramaswamy) writes:
>
>    Are we beginning to see shades of sci in rmic? I am talking about
>    having to read nasty comments about other's opinions. It leaves a 
>    bad taste. 

  That is unfortunately so whenever persons like Njan appear on the scene.Till
now he was mostly confined to sci.He just does not seem to see beyond Kerala in
geography and thinks anyone who has a different opinion(in this case about
MDR) is ignorant,biased,snobbish and what not.I hope this does not spoil the 
atmosphere in this newsgroup which I have enjoyed reading since its creation.

gopal


Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: sundar@freyja.uchicago.edu (Saisundaraman Vishwanathan)
Subject: Concert in chicago area.
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: rec.music.indian.classical
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:15:13 GMT

Hi. I am posting this on behalf of Raja Venkateshwar who is
organizing this deal.

Violin recital in the Chicago Area:
 by Sriram Parasuram. With Viswanath Parasuram on the mridangam.
 
Date: 25th of July (this saturday)
Venue: S. V. Temple (the balajee temple) in Aurora, IL.
	   address: 1145 W. Sullivan Rd.
		ph: 708-844-2252.
Time: 6pm.

If you have any questions you should contact the organizers; 
Raja Venkateshwar at 708-844-2252. 

I have heard Sriram a long time back accompanying MDR and 
I recall that he played very well. He must be much better now.
He currently learns from T. Viswanathan at Wesleyan, which is
another excellent qualification. 

If you have any questions or 
comments, please send me mail. Thanks.
-Sundar Vishwanathan.
sundar@cs.uchicago.edu.



Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: pavan@pico.cs.umn.edu (A.Pavan)
Subject: Re: Tabla query
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:43:30 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.030933.10678@epas.toronto.edu>, kippenj@epas.utoronto.ca (J. Kippen) writes:
|> Usually it's me responding to tabla queries, but here's one for all of you:
|> 
|> I recently received a tape of a tabla solo by Shaukat Hussain, but I
|> know virtually nothing about this character.  I do remember he is
|> (was?) a disciple of Kader Bakhsh who also taught the great Allah
|> Rakha.  Perhaps Shaukat Hussain lived in Lahore, in which case I'm not
|> surprised that I never heard much (i.e. anything) about him in India.
|> 
|> Can anyone fill in a few details please?
|> 
|> Also --- if anyone wants a very good blast of excellent tabla playing,
|> listen to Anindo Chatterjee's new CD on which he plays several solos
|> in a range of interesting tals.  To my mind he adheres to the tabla
|> classics on this disc, with very few excursions into rat-a-tat-tat
|> machine-gun tukras and relas.  This is full of great compositions and
|> wonderful sets of improvisations.  I think the old great masters would
|> approve somehow.  Anindo is a student of Jnan Prakash Ghosh of
|> Calcutta.  However, early on he did learn from my teacher, Ustad Afaq
|> Husain Khan of Lucknow (during the years he lived in Calcutta).  Pity
|> Anindo never acknowledges that fact, despite all the old Lucknow he
|> plays on his CD.  I suppose he could have got that from Jnan Babu too,
|> but I like the idea of acknowledging one's mentors and guides.  Still,
|> please have a good listen.  It's very worthwhile.
|> 

Alla Rakha and Shaukat Hussain were indeed 'Guru Bhais' (tutored under the same
Guru). I dunno much about Shaukat either but I believe Abdul Sattar Tari, the
Tabla wizard from Pakistan is a disciple of Shaukat Hussain. One can easily
notice the similarity in the styles of Zakir and Tari. Maybe later I may be able
to dig more info on Shaukat Hussain.

Pavan
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical