From: jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Larry Jewell)
Newsgroups: soc.veterans
Subject: 'NamVet Newsletter, Vol.5, no.12 (2/7)
Date: 15 Aug 92 23:44:33 GMT


     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 13
     Volume  5, Number 12                            December 17, 1991

                      NamVet Distribution Survey Form
          
     NamVet's  editorial  staff would like to know where  YOU  received
     this  copy of NamVet.   Please take a few moments to complete  and
     return this page (or a copy) to us.
          
     NAME_____________________________________________________________
     ADDRESS__________________________________________________________
     CITY_____________________________________________________________
     STATE & ZIP______________________________________________________
          
     Where did you obtain/read the NamVet Newsletter? ________________
     _________________________________________________________________
          
     Do you make NamVet available to others? _________________________
          
       If YES:   Individual / /    Educational / /    Vet Groups / /
     
     What do you find most/least helpful about NamVet?________________
     _________________________________________________________________
     _________________________________________________________________
          
     What other information would you like to see in NamVet? _________
     _________________________________________________________________
     _________________________________________________________________
          
     Additional Comments _____________________________________________
     _________________________________________________________________
     _________________________________________________________________
          
          
     YOUR poem, letter, article about the veteran Experience -  whether
     you  were  in  Vietnam,  in the military or  not  -  is  extremely
     welcomed  by  the  editorial staff of NamVet.   We invite  you  to
     include one (or many) with your return of this form.
          
     Thank  You  for  your  time  and help  in  making  NamVet  *-THE-*
     electronic  newsletter by,  for and about veterans and the  issues
     that concern them!
          
     Please return replies/articles/poems/etc. to:
          
                             Mrs. Joyce Flory
                        NamVet Distribution Survey
                    1825 Evelyn - Las Cruces, NM  88001
          
                                   -or-
          
                      Berkshire Veterans' Center, Inc.
                   PO Box 2056  -  Pittsfield, MA  01201
          
     
     
     
     
     



     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 14
     Volume  5, Number 12                            December 17, 1991

                             To You and Yours
                  *
                                             *                 *
     
              *                  *
      *
                        *                              *
                               Happy Holidays
                  *
                                                 *
      *                               *
            *                                               *
            |               From The NamVet Staff           |
           | |      *                             *        | |
       *   | |            and all its contributors         | |   *
           | |                 *                           | |
        \\=====//                                       \\=====//
     m=============================================================m
     H/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////H
     H/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////H
     H/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////H
     H//|              |/////////////////////////|              |//H
     H//|   MIA/POWs   |/////////////////////////|   MIA/POWs   |//H
     H//| - - - - - - -|/////////////////////////|- - - - - - - |//H
     H=====          ===============================          =====H
       HHHH          HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH          HHHHH
       HHHH          HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH          HHHHH
       HHHH          HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH          HHHHH
       HHHH          `HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH'          HHHHH
       HHHH            `HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH'           dHHHHH
       HHHHb           ,'                       `.          dHHHHHH
       HHHHHHb....... '      Happy Hanukah        '.......dHHHHHHHH
       HHHHHHHHHHH                                     HHHHHHHHHHHH
       HHHHHHHHHHH                                     HHHHHHHHHHHH
       HHHHHHHHHHH          Merry Christmas            HHHHHHHHHHHH
       HHHHHHHHHHH                                     HHHHHHHHHHHH
       HHHHHHHHHHH                                     HHHHHHHHHHHH
       HHHHHHHHHHH         Happy New Year !!!          HHHHHHHHHHHH
       HHHHHHHHHHH                                     HHHHHHHHHHHH
       HHHHHHHHHHH                      .              HHHHHHHHHHHH
       HHHHHHHHHHH            .         :.   .         HHHHHHHHHHHH
       HHHHHHHHHHH          .,`:  .:   .`:. .:         HHHHHHHHHHHH
       HHHHHHHHHHH    O    ::: `:.. :.. ::..: .    O   HHHHHHHHHHHH
       HHHHHHHHHHH   O*O  ,:.:: :::.`: :: .: ::.  O*O  HHHHHHHHHHHH
       HHHHHHHHHHH   OoO  ``'::: : :.:::..: ::`:. OoO  HHHHHHHHHHHH
       HHHHHHHHHHH   ||| `;: '::: :`:.:. ::`:`:::.|||  HHHHHHHHHHHH
       HHHHHHHHHHH   ||| `;:: ::::\\/::\::`:\\::; |||  HHHHHHHHHHHH
       HHHHHHHHHHH   ||| `:\/.//.//\ \.\\\/|\\\\ '|||  HHHHHHHHHHHH
       HHHHHHHHHHH   ||| /////|/ //\\\ \\\ \\\|\\ |||  HHHHHHHHHHHH
       HHHHHHHHHHH   |||//\|\/\/\/| /\\ \/\\\\ \\\|||  HHHHHHHHHHHH
       HHHHHHHHHHH  (O|O)//\/\///\///\\\|/\\|\\\\(O|O) HHHHHHHHHHHH
       HHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHH                        HHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHH
       HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
      ///          ... and the Peck Family                      \\\
     //   Joe, Georgia, Michael, David, Kimberly, George & Rosa   \\
     
                           -  1991  -
     

     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 15
     Volume  5, Number 12                            December 17, 1991



     ==================================================================
                             Drums be not Silent
     ==================================================================

                        POW/MIAs - A workable plan... at last!
                                  By G. Joseph Peck
                               NamVet's Managing Editor
                    With "interruptions" for documentation <grinz>
                             VETLink #1 - Pittsfield, MA
                                    (413) 443-6313
     
     The letter opens...
     
          "Florida House of Representatives - 1991      CS/HB 1023
     By the Committee on Transportation and Representative Bronson
     
     A  bill  to  be  entitled An act relating  to  road  and  building 
     designations; designating U.S. High 1 from the City of Key West to 
     the Georgia state line as the POW-MIA Blue Star Highway;  amending 
     sections 5 and 6 of chapter 90-368,  Laws of Florida,  designating 
     the bridge over the Suwannee River on U.S.  Highway 27 at Branford 
     as  the  Frank  R.  Norris Bridge  at  Branford;  designating  the 
     transportation complex on Marion Street in Lake City as the Jay W. 
     Brown Transportation Complex;  designating a portion of N.W.  54th 
     Street in Miami as the Jefferson Reaves, Sr., Boulevard; directing 
     the  Department  of Transportation to erect  appropriate  markers; 
     providing an effective date.
     
          WHEREAS, it is fitting and appropriate that the noble service 
     and  costly sacrifices of the men and women of Florida serving  in 
     the  United  States Armed Forces who are now prisoners of  war  or 
     missing  in action as a result of actions on behalf of our  nation 
     around the world be recognized, and
          WHEREAS, Jay W. Brown, a native Floridian and career employee 
     of  the  former  State Road Department and current  Department  of 
     Transportation,  has  completed  45 years of distinguished  public 
     service, and
          WHEREAS,  he  is  recognized as one of the  most  outstanding 
     graduates of the University of Florida School of Engineering, and
     ....."
     
     The  "dream"   is  catchy.    "Highways  that  crisscross  America 
     reminding  travellers of another cost of war,  each mile  urgently 
     echoing  the  now-famed words,  'Bring Me Home'  'Bring  Me  Home' 
     'Bring Me Home',  each glance at a road-sign silently shouting 'Do 
     something NOW!' 'Do something NOW!' 'Do something NOW!',  and each 
     turn  of  an automobile key gently reminding its holder 'Have  you 
     done  anything?'   'Have  you  DONE  anything?'   'Have  you  done 
     ANYTHING?'  A living memorial; a living focus and concentration of 
     all  our  energies to "Bring them home -  NOW!",  and a beacon  to 
     those whose families were told: "We can keep them forever!"
     
                 Man Paving Way to POW/MIA Memorial Roads
                             By Thomas Jewell
                             The Intelligencer 
                 Wheeling, W.VA - Thursday, August 8, 1991
     
       Monuments  have been built to commemorate every war and many  of 
     the battles that have taken place, as well as the heroes that have 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 16
     Volume  5, Number 12                            December 17, 1991

     taken their places in American history.
       "There's even one for the Unknown Soldier,  but we do not have a 
     memorial  for Prisoners of War or those still Missing in  Action," 
     noted  Jose  N.  Proenza Sanfiel,  who has been working in  recent 
     years on a remedy for this conspicuous omission.
       The  Cuban  refugee  and former U.S.  Marine  is  proposing  the 
     creation  of  a living memorial by renaming  two  transcontinental 
     highways  the  "POW/MIA Interstates,"  north-south and  east-west, 
     criss-crossing in the "imaginary heart of America."
       One of the prospective highways is U.S.  64,  which runs through 
     West  Virginia,  although Sanfiel pointed out that proposed routes 
     for  the "paths of honor"  are tentative at this point,  and could 
     swing through Ohio as well.
       Sanfiel,  who recently earned his registered nursing degree,  is 
     taking  his first vacation in three years,  visiting the family of 
     his wife - the former Judy Schafer - in Hammondsville.
       After  an  initial  brush-off at the state and  federal  levels, 
     "Corporal  Pro"  took his campaign to his hometown of  St.  Cloud, 
     Fla.,  near  Orlando,  and  to his own street,  formerly known  as 
     Hunting Lodge Drive.
       Along with the half-mile stretch of road running in front of his 
     house, there has since been another dedication,  this one for U.S. 
     Highway 1 from Key West to the Georgia State Line,  now designated 
     the POW-MIA Blue Star Highway.
       Now he's back to "going national" with Project Interstate, which 
     will  take an act of Congress.   But aside from the new road signs 
     and  highway markers to serve as a reminder,  that's about all  it 
     would take, given enough of a groundswell of support.
       "I  don't  ask  for  money and I  don't  take  donations,"  said 
     Sanfiel,  noting  that this is a cause for consternation with many 
     politicians.  "I'm not a 'Patriot for Profit.'   I'm asking people 
     to put their money and effort into a 29-cent stamp and a letter to 
     their respective congressmen.  And to expect an answer from them."
       Coming  to  this  country  in 1968 at the  age  of  14,  Sanfiel 
     described  himself  as a "gung-ho"  Marine,  joining the corps  in 
     1974.
       "I  understood  what  freedom and communism  meant,  and  I  was 
     willing  to  go that extra step,  as these individuals had  done," 
     Sanfiel said.  "And it made me think that if I had become the POW, 
     I  would only hope that somebody back here would be doing the same 
     for me.   It's a big disappointment that not everybody has made it 
     back home yet."
       In  addition  to the remains of soldiers killed that  have  been 
     withheld,  Sanfiel  is  convinced that there are  still  survivors 
     being held in captivity in Indochina.
       Citing  reports  kept classified for years by the  U.S.  Defense 
     Intelligence Agency,  Sanfiel said he hopes the recent controversy 
     involving  an  alleged  photograph  of MIAs  will  compel  a  more 
     concentrated  effort  by  the  government,   which  he  feels  has 
     "downplayed" the issue.
       But  he  noted that his POW-MIA recognition  effort  encompasses 
     soldiers from all wars, not just Vietnam.
       Another  law passed in Florida requires state-owned buildings to 
     display   the  POW-MIA  banner  along  with  the  American   Flag.  
     Accordingly,  Sanfiel  has been making a lot of flag presentations 
     of late, many of them to schools.
       "It's  getting to where kids look up and see that black flag and 
     know what it's all about,"  Sanfiel said.   "I'm getting old and I 
     might  forget,  but I want to make sure the future  doesn't.   I'm 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 17
     Volume  5, Number 12                            December 17, 1991

     just one voice,  but if others join we could become a choir.   I'm 
     trying to be a voice but it needs to be echoed."
       Project POW &  MIA's Interstate will send a free decal to anyone 
     who  sends  a stamped,  self-addressed envelope to 4230  POW/MIA's 
     Memorial Drive, St. Cloud, Fla., 34772-8142.
     
                             *   *   *   *   *
     
     Not bad, Jose... not bad!!!   In fact,  I think if our readers out 
     here  in NamVetLand could get hold of a sample of the letter you'd 
     suggest  writing to their Congressmen/Senators,  I think you might 
     really  have  a workable idea to channel the energies of  so  many 
     who've  tried so hard to accomplish something that would both be a 
     reminder  and  a LOUD SHOUTING to those who continue to  hold  our 
     proud American soldiers.
     
     I've  just  read  in  our  VIETNAM_VETS  echo  where  you're  also 
     proposing  a "Wake Up,  America"  event during 1992's Memorial Day 
     events where those who wish to remember our MIA/POW's ("I" usually 
     put  MIA  *-FIRST-*  because our soldiers are  MIA  *-FIRST-*)  by 
     bringing  a  white  carnation to The Wall in  Washington,  DC  and 
     taping it to the name of an MIA/POW.
     
     The  story is told about the young soldier who was brought to  the 
     firing range by his D.I.  where he was shown a round of ammunition 
     which  was used for his M16.   Carefully breaking the round  open, 
     the D.I. poured its gunpowder-contents onto the ground in front of 
     the soldier.  
     
     "Soldier," said the D.I., "Take a match and light the powder."  
     
     Not  truly  familiar with weapons and what makes  them  work,  the 
     soldier somewhat-fearfully hesitated as he began to obey.  
     
     "Light it - NOW!" ordered the D.I.  The soldier followed orders.
     
     A puff of black smoke - and the gunpowder was gone.
     
     "So  is it to be,"  said the D.I.   "If you take your energies and 
     scatter  them  around,  apply  your resources in  one  area  after 
     another,  empty yourself wholeheartedly into whatever you're doing 
     at  the moment,  you will be like the gunpowder you just wasted  - 
     you and your efforts will go up in a harmless puff of smoke."
     
     Following the D.I.  to his weapon,  the soldier watched as a fresh 
     round was chambered.
     
     "Now if you take your energies, concentrate them - like we've done 
     with  the gunpowder in the chambered round,  watch what happens to 
     your target, your objective."
     
     The  D.I.  squeezed  the  trigger -  and a  silhouette  down-range 
     vanished.
     
     The soldier finished his BASIC as Platoon Honorman. 
     
     I  have a feeling,  Jose,  that you might have crossed paths  with 
     that D.I. <grin>
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 18
     Volume  5, Number 12                            December 17, 1991

                                 THE BUNK
                              -- Anonymous --        
     
                             His name was Don.
                       He was gone when I got there.
                             I never knew him.
                          He was part of my war.
     
                            Reporting for duty,
                           Assigned to his bunk,
                         "He won't need it again;
                       He was shot down last night."
             
                         The shock of that moment,
                          Heartless and hopeless,
                         Like an ice-water dagger
                          Welcomed me to the war.
       
                       The first night in his bunk,
                       With twelve months before me.
                           What was he thinking
                        The last time he lay here?
            
                         Was he dreaming of home,
                         Of his family and future?
                        Or did he lie awake knowing
                       That his time was too short?
          
                         Would some other new guy
                           Sleep here tomorrow?
                      Would he get the same greeting,
                         "He won't need it again."
             
                         And each time I lay down
                         In the bunk of a stranger
                         A ghost whispered softly.
                           "One day at a time."
             
                       The last night in Don's bunk,
                          Twelve hours before me,
                           War safely behind me,
                            I said my goodbye.
             
                             I finally met Don
                          A half-lifetime later.
                            Panel 25E, Row 113,
                             I said my hello.
     











     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 19
     Volume  5, Number 12                            December 17, 1991

                             The POW-MIA Myth
                         Submitted by John Mendes
                      POW/MIA BBS - Port Monmouth, NJ
                              (908) 787-8383
     
                              November 27, 1991
     
     The Atlantic Monthly
     745 Boylston Street
     Boston, Mass. 02116
     
                         Re: "The POW-MIA Myth"
     Gentlemen:
     
       If  H. Bruce Franklin wants to write a cultural critique panning
     Hollywood  flicks  on Vietnam,  pulp novels,  sartorial  fads  and 
     Richard Nixon,  that's okay by me,  but what I don't understand is 
     why he feels the need to incorporate slipshod, incomplete research 
     on  the  facts  of  the continued detention of  American  POWs  in 
     Indochina into his review.
     
       He  tells  us there is a "numbers game"  being played  with  the 
     possible total of claimed POWs.  Problem is,  these numbers can be 
     moved up,  as well as down.  (One activist recently obtained a Lao 
     propaganda  tract claiming that they received 369 US prisoners  as 
     "war  booty."  The bottom line is:  the US and the Pathet Lao  had 
     publicly  stated that the latter were holding into the hundreds of 
     POWs, not a single one of whom was returned. Franklin shuffles the 
     numbers  to make it look like we received more POWs from Laos than 
     we claimed were there; in fact, the seven (or 9)  POWs in question 
     were prisoners of the Vietnamese fraudulently passed off as Pathet 
     Lao  captives.  If Franklin had bothered to read the Department of 
     Defense POW-MIA Fact Book, which he cites, he would know this.
     
       Every "responsible" investigation, we are told,  has reached the 
     conclusion  there  is  no  "credible  evidence"  (or  "conclusive" 
     evidence) that POWs are still alive. Two key points: the "credible 
     evidence" (aka. "usable proof") standard is a term of art,  not to 
     be  confused with the plain,  ordinary meaning of the  words.  The 
     test  is so rigid it will never be satisfied (an escaping POW  who 
     eyewitnessed other POWs in captivity wouldn't meet this particular 
     test).  Even  if it could be satisfied,  the intelligence analysts 
     have a "mindset to debunk" - a charge initiated by Lt. Gen. Eugene 
     F. Tighe, Jr., retired in 1981 as head of the Defense Intelligence 
     Agency,  and  continued through this spring by Col.  Millard Peck, 
     just resigned as head of the POW-MIA special office at DIA.  Solid 
     intelligence will never surmount the barriers erected.
     
       As for the supposed merits of the "investigations" cited: 1) why 
     should  anyone  continue  to accept the conclusions  of  the  1976 
     Montgomery  Report,  when  it  predates  almost all  of  the  live 
     sighting  reports,  which  fuel the current debate,  and when  its 
     panel  did  not have access to quite a few other pieces  of  since 
     revealed  intelligence?  2)  since Franklin complains that the POW 
     issue has been politically manipulated,  why doesn't he apply this 
     same  analysis  to  the Montgomery Report?  The  select  committee 
     actually  deadlocked 5-5,  but the vote to release the report  was 
     adroitly scheduled when two Montgomery opponents were out of town. 
     3)  If a book,  "Politics of the Missing Man,"  by Douglas Clarke, 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 20
     Volume  5, Number 12                            December 17, 1991

     counts as one of the investigations,  why don't other books,  such 
     as "First Heroes," by Rod Colvin,  various works by Larry O'Daniel 
     and  David Dimas,  or "The Bamboo Cage,"  by Nigel Cawthorne (this 
     last considered by many activists to be the best book published on 
     the  subject)?  4)  Hasn't  Franklin ever heard of the 1986  Tighe 
     Report?  (If  anyone  condescends to respond to this  letter,  I'd 
     recommend  reading the hearing record of the House Subcommittee on 
     Asian  and  Pacific Affairs on this report,  before  regurgitating 
     whatever  Pentagon  whitewash  of the embarrassment to  the  party 
     line). 5)  What about the Helms-Grassley reports?   Or the Interim 
     Report's  reference to the 1974 Whitmire Report (currently  denied 
     by the Pentagon). 6)  How does the Final Interagency Report of the 
     Reagan  Administration qualify as a true investigation,  when it's 
     nothing  more than the aforementioned "Fact Book,"  coupled with a 
     special  section  on how difficult it is to collect  intelligence? 
     Note also: why doesn't it mention the Tighe Report at all?
     
       And  there  are numerous lesser errors in Franklin's  piece.  To 
     pick a few: the Nham Marrot raid didn't "discover"  that the "Fort 
     Apache" site "was not a POW camp after all" - as related in "First 
     Heroes,"  the  suspected  POWs had been discovered in an  interior 
     compound;  the  ground  reconnaissance team was never informed  of 
     this fact, and therefore only photographed the exterior camp: they 
     didn't even look in the right place. We're told that Col.  Charles 
     Shelton  is  "known  to  have died a quarter of  a  century  ago," 
     although  the  documentation  for  this  assertion  (assembled  by 
     "debunkers") only "indicates" this; meanwhile,  there is plenty of 
     evidence (in the normal meaning of the word) that Shelton may have 
     survived to this date. Citation of authority upon request.
     
       One has to be uniquely myopic today to act as if Korea and World 
     War II MIA problems prove the triviality of the Vietnam issue.  In 
     the  past  five  years,  a  torrent of long ignored  data  in  the 
     National  Archives suggests that even more POWs were held back  by 
     the  Communists at the end of both wars.  See,  e.g.,  the  Helms- 
     Grassley Report.
     
       Ultimately,  I can't really reconcile Franklin's image of Ronald 
     Reagan  recklessly plunging the nation into a frenzied search  for 
     live  POWs,  to protect the honor of Sylvester Stallone,  with the 
     mundane  realities of his Administration policy:  the continuation 
     of  the  "usable proof"  standard,  the rapid writeoff of  remains 
     cases  in disregard of forensic science,  the propaganda  campaign 
     that   tarred  all  critics  as  necessarily  favoring   "private, 
     irresponsible  cross border forays,"  the blatant meddling in  the 
     internal politics of POW-MIA organizations, etc.
     
       Believe it or not, Professor Franklin, most of us didn't come to 
     our  positions by watching made-for-TV movies (I haven't even seen 
     some  of  the ones you list).  We did it by  reading  declassified 
     intelligence   reports,   reading  well-researched  articles   and 
     position  papers,  noting  the  discrepancies  between  government 
     rhetoric and action, and, yes, occasionally following pied pipers.
     
       One final question: if there's really nothing to this issue, why 
     has  the  Senate  just  set up a  very  active  select  committee, 
     including twelve senators and a growing staff?
     
                                        Sincerely,
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 21
     Volume  5, Number 12                            December 17, 1991

     
                                        William T Bennett
                                        General Secretary
     
     P.S. Has Professor Franklin ever even heard of:
     the Gaines Report
     Bill Paul
     the CIL Report
     David Hrdlicka
     Jerry Mooney
     "discrepancy cases"
     Tracy Usry
                 ... ?
     













































     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 22
     Volume  5, Number 12                            December 17, 1991

     
                         W       W          M     M
                         W       W         M M   M M
                         W       W   \ /   M  M M  M
                  OOOO   W   W   W  --*--  M   M   M   IIII
                 O    O  W  W W  W   / \   M       M    II
                 O    O  W W   W W         M       M    II
                 O    O   W     W          M       M    II
                 O    O                                 II
       PPPPPP    O    O            .....                II       AA
       PP   PP    OOOO        .  ''       '' ..        IIII    A    A
       PP    PP            ..'                  '..            A    A
       PPPPPPP          ..'                        ''.         A    A
       PP            ..'                              '.       AAAAAA
       PP          .'                                  ''.     A    A
       PP         .'                                      '.   A    A
                .'                   .:::::..              '.
               .'                  .::::::::::.              '
              .'                 .::::::::::::::.             '.
             .'       __       .::::::::::::::::;:...          '.
            .'      _-  -_   .:::::::::::::::::::::::.          '.
           .'     _-_ _ _ -_ ::::::::::::::::::::::::'           '.
          ..    _- -!!___!!!-_:::::::::::::::::::::::.            ..
          .'       ==_ _- _= .::::::::::::::::::::::::            ',
          .        =-_= _= = ::::::::::::::::::::::::              .
          .'       =-_ =_- = :::::::::::::::::::::::              '.
          .'       = - -_ =_:::::::::::::::::::::.                '.
          .'       -_ -_- .:::::::::::::::::::;;;.                '.
          .'      _-_  ..::::::::::::::::::::::::;                '.
          .     _ _  .:;:::::::::::::::::::::;,                    .
           '    _  .:::::::::::::::::::::::::.                    '.
        Y  .'.....::::::::::::::::::::::::::;'                    '. N
           ::::::::::::::::::::::::'    `'''                      ':
         O `:::::::::::::::::::::::           \v/          \ /    :'E
            `:::::::::::::::::::::: ===========================  :'
           U `:::::::::::::::::::::.          /^\            \  :'T
               `::::::::::::::::::::                          .:
               A `::::::::::::::::::                        .:'T
                  `::::::::::::::::::.                    .;'
                  R `:::::::::::::::::.                 .;' T
                      `::::::::::::::::.              .;'
                      E `:::::::::gjp:::            .:'  O
                          `:::::::::::::...........'' G
                          N   O   T       F   O   R
     
                       " Bring them home --- NOW !!! "
     












     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 23
     Volume  5, Number 12                            December 17, 1991

                         Input by Marsha Ledeman
                       NamVet MIA/POW Section Editor
                        VETLink #1 - Pittsfield, MA
                              (413) 443-6313
     
     
                11/09/91]  by  John  Fellows,  Minnesota 
                              COMMENTS
     
     On  Sunday,  October  27,1991,  the  Los  Angeles  Times  Magazine 
     published a story written by the same man who wrote the script for 
     the  BBC documentary "We Can Keep You Forever"  --  Edward Tivnan. 
     The  story had been anticipated for some time but had a rocky road 
     to  publication.  It  had been purchased in July by the  New  York 
     Times,  edited and prepared for publication in September,  but was 
     pulled at the last second by Max Frankel,  the Executive editor of 
     the Times. He was reportedly "uncomfortable"  with the story.  The 
     story  details Soviet involvement in the interrogation and  trans-
     portation  of  American  Prisoners  of War during  and  after  the 
     Vietnam War.
       It  quotes  a  Soviet  KGB  Major-General  who  stated  that  he 
     personally  participated in such interrogations as late as 1976 -- 
     3 years after the war ended.
       It  quotes  two  career  intelligence  analysts  who  said  they 
     monitored  the  movement  of American POWs in Vietnam as  late  as 
     1979.
       It quotes NSA intelligence analyst Jerry Mooney, who said he had 
     collected info about 1,000 men who had been captured by war's end, 
     and  knew of 290 men who were prisoners at the end of the war  who 
     were not released.  Mooney is not new --  he surfaced in 1987 when 
     he  learned  that the government was lying to families  concerning 
     its  knowledge of their loved-ones,  turning over alleged  remains  
     from excavated crash sites.  Mooney knew for a fact that these men 
     had  not died in the crash,  and that the government knew it also. 
     Mooney's statements had been quickly forgotten by most of Congress 
     and the Press, after the government denied they were true.
       Tivnan  was able to support Mooney's statements in the person of  
     Terrell  Minarcin --  another career NSA intelligence analyst  who 
     retired in 1986, and worked for Mooney at one time.  Minarcin said 
     that  he and his associates continued to monitor the movements  of  
     American  POWs  in  Vietnam into 1979 --  about  the  time  Robert 
     Garwood  managed  his  release.  Minarcin said  he  monitored  the 
     transport  of planeloads of Americans via Soviet aircraft,  to KGB 
     controlled areas in Siberia.
       Minarcin  said he talked to some of his former associates at the 
     NSA and some indicated they would be willing to testify,  but only 
     if they are first granted immunity from prosecution.
       Tivnan  was able to quote others in his story,  including  Roger 
     Shields -- former deputy assistant Secretary of Defense,  and head 
     of the POW/MIA Task Force at the end of the war,  and retired  Air 
     Force General Eugene Tighe, who was head of  Military Intelligence 
     (DIA)  during the Carter Administration Mooney said the collection of 
     intelligence  about  the  POWs was a matter  of  highest  national 
     priority during the Carter years, in spite of the fact that Carter 
     was  moving  to declare the men dead publicly at the  time.  Tighe 
     said he talked to Congress about the men about every six months at 
     that time.
       Tighe  led  a  commission investigating the  DIA  shortly  after 
     Reagan  was elected,  and testified before Congress concerning his 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 24
     Volume  5, Number 12                            December 17, 1991

     findings.  His  report  was classified and not even  available  to 
     other  members  of Congress until recently, but Tighe  has  stated
     publicly  on many occasions that he was absolutely convinced  that  
     there were still living American prisoners in Vietnam while he was 
     DIA head.
       Tivnan's  story was expected to generate some public controversy 
     when  it  was finally published,  but most people outside  of  Los 
     Angeles  never learned of it.  None of the wire services picked it 
     up,  and  none  of the television networks.  Ted Koppel  had  been 
     negotiating  with Tivnan for an appearance planned for October 28, 
     Nightline  representatives  reported recently that had no plans  to 
     schedule him.
       The  Soviet  General quoted in the article is KGB  Major-General 
     Kalugin.  He said that while the military generals had a hands-off 
     policy   regarding  American  prisoners,   assumably  because   of 
     diplomatic  concerns,  KGB  head  Yuri Andropov (a  future  Soviet 
     leader) approved a clandestine program conducted by KGB personnel. 
     The story was supported by Soviet journalists who co-operated with  
     Tivnan,  interviewing ot her KGB sources.  They confirmed that the 
     Soviets  monitored the interrogation of Americans  (interrogations 
     actually  conducted by the Vietnamese).  They did not confirm  the 
     movement  of Americans to the Soviet Union,  nor the existence  of 
     American prisoner after the war ended.
       There  is  a strong suggestion in Tivnan's story that  many  men 
     were  held back,  or transferred to Soviet  custody,  specifically 
     because  they  had been interrogated by  the  Soviets,  presumably 
     because the Soviets did not want witnesses to their participation. 
     Ti  said  that  not  one of the men  released  by  the  Vietnamese 
     reported   being  questioned  by  Soviets,   something  he   found 
     incredible  because  the knowledge these men had about  electronic 
     warfare  and  countermeasures  systems would have been  of  vital 
     importance to the Soviets.
       Government  knowledge of this was recently suggested when a U.S. 
     Senator  told the son of one MIA that his father had recently been 
     sighted  "in and around Moscow".  He did not reveal the source  of 
     his information,  saying he had learned of a letter --  however he 
     has close ties with Senate intelligence sources.
       Both  Mooney and Minarcin are career intelligence analysts,  and 
     retired  after 20 years service.  Their specialties were  airborne 
     defense  communications  systems,   and  as  such  they  monitored  
     Vietnamese communications and decoded message traffic. Mooney said 
     that for 18 months beginning in 1968,  U.S.  personnel broke a top 
     Vietnamese code and had access to the highest levels of Vietnamese 
     communications.
       Both have impeccable service records. Mooney never received less 
     than  the highest marks available for his work,  and was described 
     in  those  reports  as  "a perfectionist"  and "one  of  the  most 
     outstanding  intelligence analysts I have ever had the pleasure of 
     supervising".
       Both  Mooney and Minarcin had personal knowledge of the fate  of 
     the  crew  of an intelligence-gathering plane that was  shot  down 
     after  the  peace  accords were  signed.  One  crew-member,  Peter 
     Cressman,  had been drinking with Minarcin the night before he was 
     shot down.  Both traced the movement of the crew after they bailed 
     out and were captured. They had knowledge of vital interest to the 
     Soviets.
       Former  Secretary of State Henry Kissinger,  who negotiated  the 
     end  to  the  war  with the Vietnamese,  has  indicated  that  the 
     Vietnamese   refused  even to discuss the men (presumably  because 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 25
     Volume  5, Number 12                            December 17, 1991

     they were shot down after the accords were signed,  and the flight 
     was  in violation of the agreement).  The men's names were removed 
     from the list submitted to the Vietnamese of men who were expected 
     released.  Roger  Shields later apologized to the Cressman  family 
     and said the names were dropped against his strong objections.
       Minarcin  made  one comment supporting allegations made  in  the 
     recent report released by the Minority Staff of the Senate Foreign 
     Relations  Committee  --  that  the actual number of MIAs  may  be 
     double the number reported,  because men on covert operations were 
     automatically  declared  dead  if  they failed to  return  from  a 
     mission.  The entire war in Laos was a covert operation.  Minarcin 
     said  he  noticed  in  the  late 60's  that  captured  flyers  and 
     "captured  covert  operators"   were  ending  up  in  camps  where 
     intelligence had placed Soviet personnel.
       Minarcin  said  his department knew which prisoners  were  being 
     transported  to  the Soviets because they were escorted by  "white 
     hats"  --  Vietnamese  jargon for special State security units who 
     "only  accompanied  prisoners  who  were not taken  to  the  Hanoi 
     Hilton".
       The  Hilton  was the showplace for American prisoners in  Hanoi. 
     All  of the prisoners there released at the end of the war.   They 
     included, among others,  the pilots who were shot down near Hanoi. 
     Minarcin and Moody said that prisoners were routinely divided into 
     three  categories:  one was the Hanoi group,  but two others  were 
     designated for slave labor, or execution. 
       Minarcin recounted two instances of traffic about POWs after the 
     war.  One  was in 1978 when he intercepted a message concerning  a 
     helicopter  flight of 12 American prisoners who were taken to pick 
     up wood which had been cut by another group of American prisoners.
       Another  1978  incident involved the complaints of a  Vietnamese 
     who  had  been sent to get rice after disastrous floods  destroyed 
     the rice crop.  The man complained in his conversation that he had 
     gone to Bai Thong,  where he saw American prisoners who were drier 
     and better-fed than he was.
       A  former  high-ranking Vietnamese propagandist,  Bui  Tin,  was 
     brought  in  to  testify  before the Senate  Select  Committee  on 
     Tuesday,  November 5,1991,  and supported the story of the two NSA 
     analysts.  It  was obvious from stories leading up to the  hearing 
     that he had come to say that thoughts of live Americans are silly, 
     and  that  normalization of relations would quickly resolve  these 
     questions.  This,  despite  the  fact that he is supposed to be  a 
     defector, having left Vietnam last Fall for Paris.
       He is the man who,  as the highest ranking officer at the scene,  
     accepted the surrender of South Vietnam in Saigon in 1975.  He was 
     editor  of  the Communist party newspaper and the Army  newspaper, 
     and  was  quoted  as a government spokesman by  the  Press  during 
     Operation Homecoming, saying the Pathet Lao were holding Americans 
     and wanted to negotiate for them.
       Tin   read  his  initial  lines  as  expected,   appealing   for 
     brotherhood  and  a  new era in relations.  But as soon  as  Tin's 
     formal  statement  was finished,  he began to put his foot in  his 
     mouth.
       First,  he  stated that some American prisoners had been  inter-
     rogated  by  Cubans  and  Soviet personnel.  This  was  a  misstep  
     because it contradicted a statement made minutes before by Senator 
     McCain   that  none  of  the  men  who  were  returned  were  ever 
     interrogated by Soviets.
       Tin's statements indicated that some men were held as prisoners, 
     but  never returned,  and that Hanoi should be able to account for 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 26
     Volume  5, Number 12                            December 17, 1991

     them.
       Tin  said  he  had no knowledge that any men were  sent  to  the 
     Soviet Union. He insisted that he would have been informed if they 
     had, though he described himself only as a journalist.
       He  said  the Soviets were extremely interested in men  who  had 
     knowledge  of  electronics  systems.  Unwittingly,  his  statement 
     verified what NSA agents Mooney and Minarcin have stated.
       McCain  said he was very interested in this area because he  was 
     aware  that  the electronics systems crew members of B52s were  not 
     returned.
       Tin  said  voluminous files were required to be  maintained  for 
     each  prisoner,  with  entries each day indicating  the  prisoners 
     attitude,  and details such as what he ate.  He said these records 
     were  in  excellent  condition,  and  kept today  in  the  Defense 
     Department Propaganda Department.
       Tin  assured  the  committee  that if there had  ever  been  any  
     Americans kept in Vietnam after the war, he would have known about 
     it, because it was a special responsibility of his.  He had access 
     to  all  of the prisoner of war camps during the war  and  visited 
     them  regularly to interview the prisoners.  He was editor of  the 
     military  newspaper,  and was gathering material for a book on the 
     POWs. He outranked the camp commanders, as a Lt. Colonel. His good 
     friend  and  former classmate was responsible for  POWs,  and  his 
     office was less than a block away.  The existence of any Americans 
     would not have been kept from him, he said.
       Tin  was questioned in detail about men shot down over Laos.  He 
     said  if a plane was shot down over Vietnam,  but crashed in Laos,  
     the  Pathet  Lao would turn the pilot over to the  Vietnamese.  He 
     said they would do it willingly as relations were good between the 
     two groups, and the Pathet Lao were very disciplined.
       Tin's  explanation  for the capture of so few pilots bailed  out 
     over Laos is that the jungle is very thick,  and they could not be 
     found.
     

























     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 27
     Volume  5, Number 12                            December 17, 1991

                            Please don't forget
                               Marsha Welch
                         Submitted by Joyce Flory
              NamVet's Incarcerated Veterans' Section Editor
                    Desert Dolphin BBS - Las Cruces, NM
                              (505) 523-2811
     
     [Note from Joyce:
      And in my mail today...
       This comes to you from the Vietnam Veterans for Christ 
     Ministries newsletter out of Searcy, AK. It is re-printed by 
     permission of the editor and publisher, Mr. Wes Keith.]
      
                         During this special time,
                    Please keep our live POWs in mind.
      
                 They need our prayers, love and concern.
                Let's work together for their quick return!
      
                        We are free. They are not.
               May our efforts to get them home never stop.
      
                           What a joy it will be
                      When our last POW is set free!
      
                               Marsha Welch
                             Wife of 1967 MIA
     































     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 28
     Volume  5, Number 12                            December 17, 1991

     .       =DMZ=          Camp Carroll__Con Thien        =DMZ=         .
     .                             |___/  \_ Quang Tri                   .
     .                      Khe   (|  *  *  \                            .
     .                      Sanh-/\*  * Dong \Camp Evans                 .
     .                      (Hawk  \_/\  Ha  *\_ Hue                     .
     .                        LZ)   /  \_        \Phu Bai                .
     .                            Cam Lo \_Bastogne\_                    .
     .                                     \ An.     )Da Nang            .
     .                                    /   Hoa    \ (Marble           .
     .                                   (  -------   \_Mountain)        .
     .                                    \ I CORPS     \__              .
     .                                      \------ Hoi    \ Chu Lai     .
     .                                        \     An      !            .
     .                                       /\_____        !            .
     .                                      /       !    Duc \           .
     .                                      ! Ben   !___   Pho\          .
     .                                      ! Het       \/\____!         .
     .                                      !                 !English LZ.
     .                                     /      Pleiku      ! Bong     .
     .                                    / Camp             /   Son     .
     .             V I E T N A M          ! Holloway  Happy  \_Hammond   .
     .                                    !     Camp  Valley   \    LZ   .
     .                                     \    Enarl  An Khe   )        .
     .                                      \                Qui)        .
     .                                       \     \        Nhon\        .
     .                                       /    Oasis         /        .
     .                                      (                   !        .
     .                                      _\    --------      !        .
     .                                     /      II CORPS    Tuy\       .
     .                                     \      --------    Hoa \      .
     .                                      !                    /       .
     .                                    _/Ban Me              /        .
     .         ---------                _/  Thuot         Nha  /         .
     .         III CORPS       Song Be_/                  Trang!         .
     .         --------\Quan Loi  __/  \                       !         .
     .             Katum\_____( )/An Loc!             Dong Ba  !         .
     .                  /Dau    Loc Ninh!__              Thin  ! Cam     .
     .             Tay /Tieng              \                  / Ranh     .
     .             Ninh\     Phu  Phuoc Yinh\     Dalat      /   Bay     .
     .                  !     Loi            \            __/            .
     .            Lai Khe\--*  Di An          \       ___/ Phan          .
     .               Cu Chi\     Bien Hoa      \    _/      Rang         .
     .       / \_____)   )_(_Tan San  Long Binh !__/                     .
     .       !               ( Nhut  Bearcat ___/                        .
     .  _____! An Long        \__Long Thanh_/                            .
     . !                           | . \/  Long Giao                     .
     .  \___          My          /| \/ \  (Black Horse)                 .
     .      \         Tho  Dong  / |   \ Vung Tau                        .
     .       )Vinh Long     Tam /  |  Saigon                             .
     .      /                \\ ! Tan An                                 .
     .     /Can Tho   Phu  ___\\|                                        .
     .    /--------    Vinh                                              .
     .    !IV CORPS\ \     /                                             .
     .    !-------- \ \__/ (Due to rectangular restrictions of character .
     .    !  Soc    /       placements/positions, locations approximate) .
     .    ! Trang /                                                      .
     .    !   __/                                                        .
     .     \_/                                                    gjp    .
-- 
#Larry W. Jewell (ex-USN)     WWII-L Listowner    jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu # 
#"Sunday's horoscope is noteworthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly#
#unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life." #
#--"Your Horoscope," L.A. Evening Herald Express, Saturday, Dec. 6, 1941.   #