HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: huw@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Huw Price)
Subject: Juggle shops in NYC and/or Chicago?
Organization: Sydney University Computing Service, Sydney, NSW, Australia
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 07:21:27 GMT

Any recommendations would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Huw.

-- 
Huw Price ........... huw@extro.ucc.su.oz.au
          ........... Traditional and Modern Philosophy
          ........... University of Sydney
          ........... Australia 2006
From: miguel@aclcb.purdue.edu (PHILLIP_SANMIGUEL)
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
Subject: Re: Half Showers
Date: 13 Oct 92 15:30:40 GMT
Reply-To: miguel@aclcb.purdue.edu
Organization: Purdue University AIDS Center


  I also find double-singles easier to do than triple-singles.  But I
normally juggle four clubs in a singles pattern (fountain [circles], not
columns)-- which I am much better at than doubles.  I learned four clubs
with singles because at that time my doubles were not accurate.  Now my
doubles are accurate but my triples are not. 

                                    _            _
__________________________  _      (_)  ________(_)________________________
Phillip SanMiguel        _/  \     /  \  Purdue University Juggling Club
miguel@aclcb.purdue.edu (_)   \   /    |   *Juggling*Unicycling*COMBAT*
         _               |      x    _ | 1001 Stewart Center, Box 665
________(_)______________ \_ _ / \ _(_) _West_Lafayette,_Indiana__47907-1001   
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
From: David J Ward <71035.525@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Site Swap Notation and Strange Timing
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:06:57 EDT


There has been much talk recently concerning the strange timing of
patterns like the 4 ball half shower and the 4 club double singles.
I think everyone agrees that these patterns don't fit the current
site swap notation or the multi-hand notation.
I was thinking that maybe a new notation would be required which would
contain extra factors to take into account the imperfect timing of these
patterns.  Then I thought that maybe SS notation might be able to handle
these patterns if the throw heights are redefined.  That is,  call your
normal 5 ball high throw a 13.  By doing this, you have created many
different levels of crossing throws that are gradually smaller than
your normal 5 ball throw.    The site swap notation for your 5 ball
cascade would probably be something like  13 2 0.  13+2=15, 15/3 = 5.
Now each throw is of equal spacing but two out of the three throws
are nothing.  The 5 ball half shower which would be called 7 3 normally
would now probably be called 15 2 0 11 2 0 which is probably more like
the 5 ball half shower that most people do.  15+2+11+2=30, 30/6=5.
I don't know though, maybe it is 11 7 2 0.  Then again, it could
be 27 2 0 2 0 23 2 0 2 0 2 0   where a 25 is your normal 5 ball high
throw.  But on top of that I suppose you could use 2 2 instead of
2 0.  Then the 5 ball cascade would be 11 2 2.  One of the half
showers would be 9 7 2 2.


Now for the 4 ball half shower.  Since the timing between the hands
is different, put one 2 0 between the left throw and the right throw
and put two 2 0 's between the right throw and the left throw.  This
makes  15 2 0 11 2 0 2 0.  Or maybe 11 2 2 9 2 2 2 2 would be better.

Now that I think about it,  a sync pattern could be represented this
way with an infinite number of 2 2 's following two hugh even numbers.
Maybe 12 12 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 would be close.

Hell, I don't know.  I don't even have a SS viewer.  This is just a
guess.  I feel like I'm trying to comment on a chess game. 

David J. Ward
71035.525@compuserve.com



Newsgroups: rec.juggling
From: andya@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Andrew Arhelger)
Subject: 5 ball half shower
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1992 14:58:55 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Rochester

Since everybody is talking about the half showers, does anybody
have any hints for the 5 ball half shower?  I can handle the 4 ball
half shower (and the 4 ball shower) pretty well and have tried the 5 ball
half shower with only limited success.  How does one start? I have tried
3 balls in the right hand and 2 in the left.  Throw the first one in the
right hand real high then sort of start the 4 ball half shower.  I have
only been able  to keep this going for 6 or 7 throws.  Any hints?

Andy Arhelger

Newsgroups: rec.juggling
From: jvert@microsoft.com (John Vert)
Subject: Re: Half Showers
Date: 13 Oct 92 16:58:08 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Oct13.031850.19070@wuecl.wustl.edu> jhk1@cec2.wustl.edu (Jonathan Howard Krivitzky) writes:
>In article <2AD5CC8A@courier> Angus Orde <A.Orde@leeds-poly.ac.uk> writes:
>>The 4 club half shower is a triple-single pattern. I can (sometimes) do this, 
>                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>	Is there no one out there who does a four-club half-shower with
>DOUBLE throws?  If one goes by site-swap, the double throw would be much more
>appropriate.  After all, I have never seen a five-club juggler use triples in a
>cascade.  I for one think that it's much easier than throwing singles and the
>rhythm fits a bit better, IMHO.
>	Does no one agree, or am I the lone double-singler, destined to live
>a simple life, alone in his radical notions?
>	(Or am I just being over-dramatic?)
>
>	-- Jon Krivitzky

Well, you are being over-dramatic (but you knew that).  I do both the
double-single and triple-single with clubs.  I find the triple-single
looks a lot better and it's easier to transition back and forth from
a regular 4 pattern.

On the other hand, the double-single is easier on the hands (don't have
to catch those triples all the time!) and a lot of jugglers haven't seen
it before.  (so they think you're better than you are!)  It's actually
pretty easy to learn, especially if you can already do a triple-single.

Double-single is also great solo practice for passing eight clubs.  It's
the same pattern and rhythm, so if you work on that when you don't have
a partner handy, I think you will feel a lot more comfortable passing
eight.  Dropping down from triple-single to double-single, then back up
to triple-single is pretty fun to work on, too.
     jvert@microsoft.com
> 
>
>
>
From: ajl@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Lewis AJ)
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
Subject: Re: 4-ball Half Shower
Date: 14 Oct 92 10:00:08 GMT

In <1992Oct8.125329.25691@inmos.co.uk> jpk@freddy.inmos.co.uk (Jeremy Kirkwood) writes:


>While we're on the subject, is there any distinction between a "half shower"
>and a "false shower" ? I noticed there were two separate records for these
>two descriptions in the recent records posting ...

Yes - they're completely different tricks. The false shower is also known
as a windmill, I believe. A right-to-left false shower has each hand catching
balls on the left hand side, carrying them across to the right, then throwing
them over the top to the left.
-- 
Andy Lewis  (ajl@ecs.soton.ac.uk)
Department of Electronics and Computer Science
University of Southampton
From: jpk@freddy.inmos.co.uk (Jeremy Kirkwood)
Subject: Re: 4-ball Half Shower
Organization: INMOS Limited, Bristol, UK
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 12:53:29 GMT


	Thanks to everyone who responded to my question about doing a
4 ball half-shower. Several people suggested doing simultaneous crosses
as an aid to getting this going. I can actually do this - just about - and 
I guess it is useful practise, but it is not the same trick really. Some
people suggested that this was essentially the same the half shower, and that
if you start to un-synchronise the hands a bit it becomes identical. 

Now perhaps there is a terminology clash here, but surely simultaneous crosses
is really just siteswap 4 done synchronously, however much you fiddle with 
the heights and timing of the hands. A genuine half shower is 53 and is quite
different - there are more balls in the air at a time for a start. 

Somebody (miller@quiver.enet.dec.com (Brian A. Miller)) mentioned that to do 
this trick with clubs you have to do triples with one hand and singles from 
the other. This shows how different the two patterns are, and also confirms
the view of many responders that the important thing with this trick is to 
get the high throws really a lot higher than the low ones!

While we're on the subject, is there any distinction between a "half shower"
and a "false shower" ? I noticed there were two separate records for these
two descriptions in the recent records posting ...


-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
+        Jeremy Kirkwood          Phone: (0454) 616616 Ext. 360 +
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
+ jpk@inmos.com | jpk@uk.co.inmos | JEREMYK@brb.isnet%inmos.com	+
+ Inmos Ltd, 1000 Aztec West, Almondsbury, Bristol, BS12 5SQ UK	+
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
+                 Look out! There are Llamas!                   +
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
From: chrisl@joplin.wri.com (Chris LaReau)
Subject: Re: Half Showers
Organization: Wolfram Research, Inc.
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 04:45:46 GMT

In <1992Oct13.031850.19070@wuecl.wustl.edu> jhk1@cec2.wustl.edu (Jonathan Howard Krivitzky) writes:

>In article <2AD5CC8A@courier> Angus Orde <A.Orde@leeds-poly.ac.uk> writes:
>>The 4 club half shower is a triple-single pattern. I can (sometimes) do this, 
>                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>	Is there no one out there who does a four-club half-shower with
>DOUBLE throws?  If one goes by site-swap, the double throw would be much more
>appropriate.  After all, I have never seen a five-club juggler use triples in a
>cascade.  I for one think that it's much easier than throwing singles and the
>rhythm fits a bit better, IMHO.

For one thing I won't call something a half-shower unless higher throws
actually go outside the lower throws. So normal triple-singles is not a
half shower but simply triple singles, unless you throw the triples outside,
which is kind of tough. Triple-singles with lateral overhead spin would
qualify as a half shower to me, and it's a pretty trick as well.

On to your question, yes people do double-singles. In my opinion it's harder
than triple singles (but not extremely), certainly faster, and with kind of
a bizarre rhythm. Triple singles feels like passing seven club doubles, and
double singles feels like passing eight club doubles (IMO). Tricks with
triple-singles are a lot easier for me than with double singles, which
is why triple-singles wins for me.

Chris

-----------------------
Chris LaReau  chrisl@wri.com  (working for, not speaking for) ...
Wolfram Research Inc. 100 Trade Centre Dr. Champaign IL 61820  (217) 398-0700
"Would it save you a lot of time if I just gave up and went mad now?" - A. Dent
From: jhk1@cec2.wustl.edu (Jonathan Howard Krivitzky)
Subject: Re: 4-ball Half Shower
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:58:52 GMT

	What I found the most helpful when I learned the four-ball half
shower was site-swap.  I realized that the high throws are IDENTICAL to
those of a comfortable three ball shower (51).  If you've got this pattern
down pat (which you probably do) just keep in mind the height of the fives
as they are thrown.  Don't make it higher or lower than your shower.
	It's true that the threes have to be relatively low.  Keep in mind
how fast you do a three ball shower.  This is the tempo you probably want.
The three throws in the 53 should be low enough to make it to the other
hand in time.  Remember, fives are about FOUR to FIVE times HIGHER than a
three.
	Good Luck!

	--- Jon Krivitzky

Newsgroups: rec.juggling
From: olin@sics.se (Peter Olin)
Subject: Re: 4-ball Half Shower
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 17:38:22 GMT


In article <1992Oct6.182057.7674@inmos.co.uk> jpk@freddy.inmos.co.uk (Jeremy Kirkwood) writes:

	   Can anyone offer any helpful hints and tips on doing a 4-ball
   half-shower (53 in site-swap). I can't seem to get it going at all - I'm
   pretty solid on the standard 4-ball fountain and can put in tricks like
   single cross-overs (552) but I can't seem to get the timing right for the
   53 type tricks. Is it just that the '5' has to be much higher than the '3'
   or is there something inherently hard about these sort of tricks?



I'm also working on the 4-ball half shower and had (have) the same
difficulties. I've sort of gotten over the initial threshold when it
appeared to be impossible to get the timing right, but I still need
lots of practice.

When I couldn't get it right I worked a bit on a synchronous crossing
pattern with 4 and found that it helped me with the half shower. Try
to throw all right throws over the top, and all left throws below.
This is essentially the half shower (synch i.e.) , and gives you an
opportunity to practice the throws without getting the asynch timing
right.

For another nice trick practice it the other way round, then try
alternating the throws, first right high, then right low, etc.

What I found is that the 3 needs to a be really low throw (to keep
down the 5), and part of the difficulty is that it needs to be so low
that it is hard to see the peak of both throws at the same time. It
helped me to focus somewhat below my usual point, otherwise I get
tempted to throw the 3 too high.

Hope this helps.

	Peter Olin


--
Peter Olin                            ! Email: olin@sics.se
Swedish Institute of Computer Science ! Tel: +46 8 752 1557 (direct)
Box 1263                              !  or: +46 8 752 1500
S-164 28 KISTA, SWEDEN                ! Fax: +46 8 751 7230
From: A.Orde@leeds-poly.ac.uk (Angus Orde)
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
Subject: Half Showers
Date: 9 Oct 92 18:16:00 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University
Encoding: 30 TEXT
X-Mailer: Network Courier V2.1b
Via: courier (novell-smtp-gateway.leeds-poly.ac.uk); Fri, 9 Oct 92 11:19:13 GMT

The 4 club half shower is a triple-single pattern. I can (sometimes) do this, 
but only by sending the triple up inside the single. I have seen people do 
this outside the single, and turn round in a circle while they do it (the 
triple goes up outside the body on the right (for RH jugglers) rather than 
across to the left, and you turn your body to the right to compensate). Looks 
good!

I find that the 4 ball half shower is much easier going over the top (in 
correct half shower form) though some people find thowing inside the "single" 
is easier for them.

It is possible to get some idea of the general shape by swapping a ball in 
the offbeat fountain (siteswap 4). You then throw one high and across from 
the RH (obviously this can be done either way) and a little low one across 
from the LH. Try to carry on with your fountain. I usually find that the 
timing goes out a bit with a single crossover so I am now doing a fountain 
with simultaneous throws. No problem. This trick is often used to go from 4 
to 5 3 (easy enough to go back again). You can even make the single 5 a 
behind-the-back throw.

Cheers,

Angus
******                                                               ******
Angus Orde                           Email:    a.orde@leeds-poly.ac.uk
Leeds Metropolitan University          Tel:    (UK) 0532 832600 x 3084
Computing Services                     Fax:    (UK) 0532 833145
****** How many different topologies and protocols can you juggle ?? ******
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
From: DrAllosaurus@cup.portal.com (Samuel DrAllosaurs Crider)
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
Subject: Juggling Anthropology
Date: Wed,  7 Oct 92 18:44:47 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

Hi there,
I'd like to make a public thank you to everybody who responded
to my questions about jugglers and juggling. I receieved some quite
interesting responses -- including one juggler who was so upset by my
posting he wrote to me twice to chastise me! That kind of response of
course makes me all the more interested in why people juggle and what 
juggling means to them.
I'm always interested in more stories and thoughts on the subject.
Thanks again!

Samuel Crider
DrAllosaurus@cup.portal.com
   
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
From: LEWBEL@BINAH.CC.BRANDEIS.EDU
Subject: mit club, alchemidians, records.
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 10:15 EDT
X-Vms-To: IN%"juggling@moocow.cogsci.indiana.edu"


The MIT juggling club does indeed meet every Sunday afternoon, time is
approximately 3:00 to 6:30 P.M., location is the lobby of building 10 at
MIT, or outside in front of the MIT student center if the weather is really
nice, or occasionally in lobby of building 13. contact person is me,
617-862-3089.

Thanks, JR, for posting info about Moschen and Berky coming to Brandeis before
I got a chance to do so. I saw their show, "The Alchemidians" (sp?) years ago
(more than 4 years ago, anyway) in Maine. It's high quality modern theatre, if
you like modern theatre. At the time, the best part was some creative juggling
involving a ball that rolled through a tube, and some ball bouncing. The show
may have changed a lot since then, though. Juggling was a pretty minor part of
the show.

I think David Ward's network juggling records would be more enjoyable if
the records expired after some time limit, say, a year after being set. This
would shorten it by letting silly records eventually expire and vanish, and
require clubs to constantly defend their titles instead of resting on past
Laurels and glory. It would also give newer jugglers a better shot at breaking
into the record book.

Arthur Lewbel   Lewbel@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
From: FRIEDEMA@AC.GRIN.EDU (Jondalar (Friedeman,Richard F))
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
Subject: 3-ball half shower
Date: 9 Oct 92 14:10:10 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University

the three ball half shower can't be given in site swap precisely because of 
the "wobbly" timing of the throws.  wobbly timing is expressly forbidden in 
site swap.  each hand throws a ball at even intervals, with no sync throws, 
and no off time throws.  that's why, for example a 4 ball shower in site swap 
is 7 1, but in real life it's more like 5 1 where the throws are sync.  i 
hope ed carstens will let us know what these things are in multi-hand 
notation.  i'm convinced it's the way to go.

rich
FRIEDEMA@AC.GRIN.EDU
From: jboyce@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Jack Boyce)
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
Subject: Re: Half Showers
Date: 13 Oct 1992 06:28:47 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu

Jonathan Howard Krivitzky writes:
>
>	Is there no one out there who does a four-club half-shower with
>DOUBLE throws?  If one goes by site-swap, the double throw would be much more
>appropriate.  After all, I have never seen a five-club juggler use triples in a
>cascade.  I for one think that it's much easier than throwing singles and the
>rhythm fits a bit better, IMHO.

A lot of folks do this pattern, although generally it has a funny
rhythm.  Anyway, most people throw much more quickly with 5 clubs than
they do with 3, making your argument a little shaky.  What physics
tells you is that a 5 is four times higher than a 3, assuming
each hand is full half of the time.  And you can also show that if you
throw with your wrists locked, the number of spins will be proportional
to height.  This line of argument would then indicate that quad-single
spins are the most natural way to do 53 with clubs.

In reality, there is (fortunately) a lot of slop in the timing, so
you can get away with triple-singles or double-singles (or even single-
singles).  Also most people don't throw with their wrists locked.

Jack
jboyce@physics.berkeley.edu

Newsgroups: rec.juggling
From: miguel@aclcb.purdue.edu (PHILLIP_SANMIGUEL)
Subject: Re: 3-ball half shower
Reply-To: miguel@aclcb.purdue.edu
Organization: Purdue University AIDS Center
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 15:49:20 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.014843.10434@news.cs.indiana.edu>, FRIEDEMA@AC.GRIN.EDU (Jondalar (Friedeman,Richard F)) writes:
+the three ball half shower can't be given in site swap precisely because of 
+the "wobbly" timing of the throws.  wobbly timing is expressly forbidden in 
+site swap.  each hand throws a ball at even intervals, with no sync throws, 
+and no off time throws.  that's why, for example a 4 ball shower in site swap 
+is 7 1, but in real life it's more like 5 1 where the throws are sync.  i 
+hope ed carstens will let us know what these things are in multi-hand 
+notation.  i'm convinced it's the way to go.

  Jack Boyce has extended site swap notation to include synchronous tricks, 
multiplex and passing.  So the 4 ball sync-shower is (4x,2x).  The 
three ball half-shower, to my thinking, is no different in timing than the 
cascade.  It is just that one hand is catching on the inside and throwing 
on the outside while the other is catching out and throwing in (as in a 
normal cascade).  Note that if both hands catch on the inside and throw 
on the outside one is doing a reverse cascade.  Some people call the "half-
shower" a "half-reverse".
  Site swaps do "allow" half showers, they just don't specify them (for 3 
objects -- but in higher numbers of objects we really *are* getting into 
"quarter-showers", "eighth-showers" and the like...)  But Ed Carsten's Multi-
hand Notation (MHN) does not specify half showers either.  His program, 
Jugglepro2, does, but JP2 pretty much does everything -- site swaps, Jack 
Boyce site swaps and MHN.  But this is specified outside the notation in a 
.hnd file.


                                    _            _
__________________________  _      (_)  ________(_)________________________
Phillip SanMiguel        _/  \     /  \  Purdue University Juggling Club
miguel@aclcb.purdue.edu (_)   \   /    |   *Juggling*Unicycling*COMBAT*
         _               |      x    _ | 1001 Stewart Center, Box 665
________(_)______________ \_ _ / \ _(_) _West_Lafayette,_Indiana__47907-1001   
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
From: femanrs@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (BRUCE MANNERS)
Subject: Fall Back To Akron Fest Info.
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date:  8 Oct 1992 10:39 EST  

OK as requested I am posting the info for the Fall Back To Akron Juggling 
Fest:

When:   October 10, 1992  (Yup this Saturday!)
        10:00 am til ?

Where:  Walsh Jesuit High School in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio 
                                 (Just north of Akron)
        (It is on Wyoga Lake Rd)  (Sorry I don't have directions)

Cost:   Sorry it is not free.  
        $5 for gym pass and party
        $3 for gym pass and no party

There will be the usual activities at juggling festivals:

      Open Juggling (what a shock)
      Workshops  (generally organized the day of fest)
      Games
      Raffle
      Pizza Party  
      Videos
      Vendors
      other stuff

If you have any questions or need directions to the festival you can contact 
Russ O'Brien at (216)678-3170.

**************************************************************************

Bruce Manners                                          Juglito, ergo sum

**************************************************************************
From: bobw@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Bob Waltenspiel)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 23:25:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Another juggling network....
Organization: HP Signal Analysis Division - Rohnert Park, CA
Newsgroups: rec.juggling

In rec.juggling, bobw@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Bob Waltenspiel) writes:
    I had not ever noticed a juggling discussion group, but will look for it in
    the next day or so.
 
I looked but didn't find anything about juggling.  I admit that I didn't
look very hard though.  It costs money to be connected to that system
and I can hear the clock ticking every time I'm on it.  

They don't have the clear name of usenet.  None of the existing message
groups looked like they might include juggline to me.  Does anyone have
any additional information about where the messages are located?

-Bob

Newsgroups: rec.juggling