Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: _Jesus: A Life_ by A.N. Wilson
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 00:14:43 GMT
 <adams.725991192@spssig> <1993Jan2.233914.2981@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>
Organization: SPSS Inc.

muttiah@thistle.ecn.purdue.edu (Ranjan S Muttiah) writes:

>In article <adams.725991192@spssig> adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>>muttiah@thistle.ecn.purdue.edu (Ranjan S Muttiah) writes:
>>>>adams@spss.com:
>>>>Gospel/Acts dates:
>>>>    Mark.................50-70AD
>>>>    Matthew..............55-75AD
>>>>    Luke.................59-75AD
>>>>    John.................53-85AD
>>>>    Acts.................63-70AD*
>>>>* Could be much later than 70, and no earlier than 'Luke'
>>>Interesting.  I would be a little hesitant about dates earlier than 68-70AD
>>>when the Jerusalem Temple was "attacked" by the Roman army, after which
>>>everyone was feverishly trying to blame one another (i.e., the reason for
>>>rise of Xtianity).  But I would be interested in knowing your source.
>
>>It (being fairly 'liberal') gives 70AD as the most likely time for Mark,
>>while stating that tradition holds 64AD as the date.  More 'conservative'
>>scholars (ie fundamentalists & some evengelicals) give earlier dates.
>
>I agree that Mark being written somewhere in 64-70 AD is possible.
>I suspect the first version must have been pretty unadultrated since Mark 
>was in Rome and he could have checked most of the story with the
>official Roman documents (the Romans were notorious for writing everything
>down; ex., every legion had a writer/historian).

Mark is said to best represent what is thought to be Peter's position.
Whether he actually used any of the Roman sources is up for grabs.  One
thing to note is that the enmity between Jesus and the Jewish authorities
is not as pronounced as it is in Matthew & Luke.

>>For Matthew, it gives even later possible dates, as late as 80AD.  For
>>Luke/Acts, 80AD to as late as 100AD, and for John, 80-100AD.
>>
>>The big question is who wrote them.  If you assign the traditional
>>authorship, late dates are tough, because of the advanced age of the
>>authors.  If you are willing to reject traditional authorship, then 
>>the dates open up quite a bit.
>
>I guess the big question could be answered by considering whether there was
>a sequence in which the books appeared or whether they were written in 
>different geo. locations by different authors.  Far more probable that Mark 
>came first and then interpolations and additions followed.
There are a couple of main theories, and they place Mark first, with
Matthew and Luke using Mark, and some common sayings source, or Mark first,
with Matthew & Luke constructed without Mark, but some other common source
that Mark too may have used.

The common sayings source (called 'Q' for Quelle, or source) is lost, but
some feel that the apocryphal Gospel of Thomas is an archetype for this.
Evangelical circles, and some tradition, insist that the Gospel of Thoams
is Gnostic...

>>As for the sack of Jerusalem, that particular event would have little
>>effect on the Gospels dating, except in a textual-historical way (ie,
>>references or suppositions of the destruction of the temple).  Mark was
>>most likely written in Rome, Matthew likely in Anthioch, Luke most likely
>>NOT in Palestine (because of negative evidence - lack of knowledge of
>>geography), and John unknonwn (no theories in either reference).
>
>I think it is important to consider the events as well.  There must have been
>a reason behind the motivation of these writers.  Recall that ca. 64AD James 
>(the brother of Jesus) was stoned to death in the vicinity of the Temple...  
>showing that the early Christians had an axe to grind after the Temple was 
>"attacked."
While the events would have an effect, since the early dates are possible, 
and tradition supports them (from the early Fathers) assigning motives is 
kinda tough.  Of course, we can speculate...

 -Steve
--
  The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                         -------------------
   adams@spss.com                                  Phone: (312) 329-3522
   Steve Adams        "Space-age cybernomad"       Fax:   (312) 329-3558
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.food