HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: State laws regarding same-sex marriage (was: Maybe a dumb question...)
Keywords: marriage legal gay
Date: 16 Dec 92 15:50:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec16.155018.923
Distribution: usa
Organization: insert anything here

coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
>I'm pretty certain, however, that *other* states have nothing to say
>about it, if there's no such provision in the originating state's law.
>In other words, if Hawaii passes a law that extends marriage to
>persons of the same sex (or, as is at issue now, Hawaii's existing
>marriage law is determined to apply to same-sex marriages), the "full
>faith and credit" clause of the 10th(?) Amendment requires all other
>states to recognize all Hawaii marriages as legitimate.

	Yes, yes, yes...  I fully realize that the potential for this
exists on the books, but paranoically speaking, since when has the
Constitution ever been read in a way that greatned us equality?
I mean ignoring Bowers v. Hardwick which is an obvious example,
we have the 14th that should already include us, but yet discrimination
is legal in 44 states (43 for job discrimination) and semi-mandatory in
1 (With the potential of 10-20 in the next 2 years).  What makes you
believe that if we get lucky in Hawaii or any other state that 
this problem will magically clear itself up?

	I have a feeling that the non-inclusion of homosexuals in
the 14th (implicitly) overrides the 10th.  Or at least it could
easily come down that way.  Rememberm we're talking marriage here;
there's a lot less support/tolerance for that than for simple equal
opportunity (of which there still isn't enough support).  Since
we've already watrered down the field with DP's, I have a feeling 
we're going to be interred at that level for a while.  You know,
one of those "almost-rights" we always seem to get.  The het 
community isn't going to let this loophole stand that easily
(yes, I realize an amendment, in fact one of the original
components of the BoR isn't a loophole, but when this goes down
the dam is going to burst!  I for one can't wait!)

BBC, ever the pessimist... :-)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: Re: Posting Styles
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 22:04:39 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes, and then leaves town.
This gives me the opportunity to talk behind his back.  I'll giggle
snidely as I write this.  That'll teach him.

He talks about "training people" to be thoughtful of others,
even on the net:
 >One way [ ... ] is to be very critical at first, 
 >because based on experience being nice and coddling 
 >doesn't work, not on the net.  Once you've been blasted 
 >a few times for posting without thinking, the quality of 
 >posts tends to improve.  I've seen it happen quite
 >a few times, and it needs a level of forceful language 
 >because there are no other ways - such as tone of voice, 
 >body language, etc - to get across the social disapproval 
 >for being childish and annoying.  

 >And I think this may not work with women.  We've 
 >discussed here the socialization that men and women
 >go through, women being taught to shut up and listen
 >and men being taught to talk louder to get their
 >points across.  The effect on the average male of
 >being "yelled at" here is probably very different 
 >than for a female. [ ... ]

 >I don't know what the solution is.

I mistrust suggestions that there is "a" solution to problems like
this.  The only way to approach communications problems is by paying
attention to communication, and there are lots of ways to encourage
that attention, in oneself and in others. 

One thing I've thought about:  In many ways it's easier to write a
coherent message in email than it is to write on the net, because
you can more easily focus your content when you're aiming at an
individual than when you're addressing a large and varied audience.
But, if you're in email-- one on one-- and you miscommunicate, you
may find it *extremely* difficult to reconnect, precisely because
you are missing each other's points.  But out on the net, all those
other parties who are watching and reacting often say things that
cause you suddenly to see what the other person probably meant.
The medium (sorry about this) provides its own massage.

And then there are the folks who wait until they know it's safe, and
then talk about the other posters.  This article will have expired
at Greg's site long before he gets back.  Hah.

-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
From: jbibb@eng.auburn.edu (John S. Bibb)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Lesbian invisibility in gay bars (was Re:
Date: 12 Dec 92 17:35:32 GMT
Reply-To: jbibb@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering


In article TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu, TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu () writes:
> In article <1992Dec10.024855.7884@spdcc.com>
> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>  
> >        I have a MUCH better time in bars I can easily converse
> >with people.  In fact given a choice between a smoky bvar and a loud one,
> >the loud one loses...
> >
> Fortunately, we're not forced to make that choice. All the bars I've ever
> been in are smoky _and_ loud...: )
>  
> Which brings up a *major* pet peeve for me. Perhaps in bigger cities in
> more gay-positive states this is not a problem, but here in Alabama, most
> gay bars are for men *and* women. I certainly don't mind socializing with
> the men (although it's hard to socialize with anyone in those places),

Wait a minute Tracey. Last night at Ho-Jons (Montgomery, granted just as far from
UA as it is from Auburn) the contingent of ladies was ~40-50%.  Lots of Socializing
going on....

> but
> those bars cater exclusively to men and forget there are lesbians who are
> paying just as much for drinks and just as much for cover charges for
> shows we're frankly not much interested in.
>  

Point well taken, but it was a lesbian friend of mine who FORCED (asked repeatedly)
me to stay down stairs so that SHE could see the drag show.  Personnaly, I have
little interest for middle aged, pot bellied men in dresses (or underwear).  
One of the ladies in the show even drew a BIG scream from the lesbians in the
audience when she dropped her top on stage !!!!  (horrors-naked breasts)

<[snip]
>  
> Is it too much to ask that bars think about us when they program their
> entertainment? I'm planning to talk to the manager about this -- maybe
> suggest a ladies night with better but lower-decibel music, etc. There
> is some sentiment in Tuscaloosa for opening a lesbian bar. That may
> provide the gay bar the impetus it needs to cater to the entire community,
> not just the boys.
>  
> Tracey
> Shyster stealth lesbian weasel-in-training

Another Great point, but why should ladies be the only beneficieries of lower-decibel
music?  On that thread, it is rumored that there will be a new club opening in
M-gomery including dinner, light music, commedy and other less intense entertainment.
I do need to get over to Michaels in T-town sometime to see what all the rave is
about.  Until then I have to drive 70 miles to the club in M-gomery. (awwwwwww....
I hear the pitty party already)

J.
From: smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: BOYCOTT COLORADO! Postcards
Date: 13 Dec 1992 01:56:39 GMT
Organization: Colorado Springs IT Center
NNTP-Posting-Host: fajita19.cs.itc.hp.com

mills@spot.Colorado.EDU (MILLS MICHAEL J) writes:
>     Please support the boycott of all of Colorado by purchasing fabulous 
> "Boycott Colorado!  The HATE State"  postcards, designed after our 
> state license plates.

You know, if people took *half* the time they spend on this foolish 
boycott, and used it to try and understand *how* the amendment came 
to be passed, there wouldn't be a need for it, and it would be far
less likely to happen in other states.  But doesn't it make you feel
*soooo* much better to boycott? 


Walter Smith
smithw@cs.itc.hp.com

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jcf@world.std.com (Joseph C Fineman)
Subject: Re: source of the word 'faggot' (was: Hey Edgar!)
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:15:25 GMT

twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>My best guess involves speculations on what goes
>on at British boarding schools ...

That's my guess too.  To spell it out:  I imagine "fag" came first,
and "faggot" is an arbitrary lengthening of it, suggested by the other
word "faggot" but unrelated to its meaning.  A fag was (is?) a younger
pupil at an English public school who was a servant to an older one;
folklore has it that the service is often sexual, and folklore,
regardless of fact, would suffice to make the transfer of meaning in
slang.  The public-school sense of "fag", I suspect (without cheating
by looking in the OED), derives from the Army sense, which is a
shortening of "fatigue".

The cigarette theory also seems to me very plausible.  In the U.S., at
any rate, cigarettes were first smoked by (female) whores, and the
first men to smoke them were pimps.  The leap from pimp to queer would
be pretty easy for the vulgar mind.
-- 
        Joe Fineman             jcf@world.std.com
        239 Clinton Road        (617) 731-9190
        Brookline, MA 02146
From: akbar@cs.mcgill.ca (Alain BOUCHARD)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Les joies de la langue!
Date: 16 Dec 92 18:14:28 GMT
Organization: SOCS - Mcgill University, Montreal, Canada

In article <1992Dec14.002528.26487@thinkage.on.ca> kgdykes@thinkage.on.ca
 (Ken Dykes) writes:
>se faire passer un sapin.... hummmmmm, my firry little mind wonders if
>to be called "a sap" has some origins in this phrase?
>
>"faire" is too complex a verb for this anglo, rough translation could
>be "one matures by the fir" ??
>
>maybe? duhhhhhh?

se faire <action verb> == to have the action done upon yourself

As in:  Je me fais remarquer  --  I'm being noticed
        Il s'est fait enculer --  (figure it out)

se faire passer ==   to substitute, immitate

So literally:  Je me suis fait passer un sapin.
               Someone substituted me a fake balsam fir.
               or better, I've been had.

Be carefull though,  it may have a sexual connotation because the verb
"se passer <object>" by itself can mean "to shove something up you ass or
vagina" or both if you have them.  Therefore,

      Je me suis fait passer un doigt == I've been fingered

Se passer de <something>  ==  To will do without something.
Passer < something >      ==  To pass something

Just to confuse everyone further, I often reply to someone who asks at 
the dinner table:  >>Passe-moi le sel  ==  Pass the salt
                  (or finger me with the salt shaker for dirty minds only)
                   >>Je vavais te le donner, tu te le passeras tout seul.  
               (I'll give it to you, you can shove it up your ass yourself)

I'm am not certain this would work outside of Quebec though, anyone out there
to volunteer?

Alain
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: A reply to Mr. Pierce (was Re: PHOBE ALERT: That XX Louis Sheldon...)
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 04:07:25 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.012654.27377@wolves.Durham.NC.US> wolfe@wolves.Durham.NC.US (G. Wolfe Woodbury) writes:

>	Or have we forgotten that the freedom we have to speak depends
>on defending the freedom to speak for EVERYONE.

<yawn> That saw isn't just old, Greg.  It's positively antediluvian.
But that's beside the point -- why actually discuss issues when we can
bring "freedom of speech" into the thread and *completely* throw it
off track?  Hey, you're not trying to suppress my freedom to disagree
with someone else's opinions are you!!!!!!!

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: zwicky@erg.sri.com (Elizabeth Zwicky)
Subject: Re: Indications of homosexuality (was Re: How to tell if your son is gay)
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, CA
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 18:43:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec9.233913.26632@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>What do folks with long hair who shower in the morning do? It takes my
>hair an hour and a half to dry. I'm not going to use a blow dryer. I'm
>not about to wake up an hour and a half early in the morning.

Now, I may have missed the tit-for-tat thing, but *this* one I know
something about. When I get out of the shower, my hair is dripping on
the backs of my knees, and (not coincidentally) I prefer to shower at
night. (Actually, I prefer to take baths at night, preferably with
bath oil, chocolate, and a book - you cannot read in the shower, which
is a bug from my point of view.) Periodically, however, I shower in
the morning, at which point I braid my hair up, and possibly even pin
it up. It then takes 24 hours to dry fully, but it looks dry and
doesn't annoy me in about 15 minutes. If I just braid it, it only
takes about 12 hours to dry, but it leaves a damp spot down the middle
of my back for the first hour. Blow-drying it, last time I tried it,
took about 30 excruciating minutes. That was at *least* 10 years ago,
though.

	Elizabeth D. Zwicky
	Excuse me, you're sitting on my hair.
	zwicky@erg.sri.com
From: asente@adobe.com (A Usenet Pal)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Legos
Date: 18 Dec 92 19:24:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: adobe.1992Dec18.192453.22979
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

In article <lj2uopINNjhm@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> flar@bendenweyr.Eng.Sun.COM (Jim Graham) writes:
>I agree.  In fact, if pressed, I'm pretty sure that I can come up
>with documentation proving that I have done the Twister thing with
>on the order of 600-700 people at once, and no lube!

Ooh, a Proctor-Silex fetish.  I never suspected.  What setting do you prefer,
polyester, wool, or (ouch!) cotton?

      -paul asente
	   asente@adobe.com   ...decwrl!adobe!asente   moo-bear@cs.stanford.edu

When a change of scene was proposed, Lady Celia suggested a visit to the
nearby seat of Sir Egbert, a dear friend of her youth.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: source of the word 'faggot' (was: Hey Edgar!)
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 08:12:11 GMT

In article <71779@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:

>Even today in Britain, I understand, the word "fag" is used as
>slang for "cigarette."

True.

>The explanation goes that the transfer
>of the word to gay men comes from the time just after the
>introduction of cigarettes, when they were commonly considered
>to be notably less "masculine" than a pipe or a proper cigar.

Now that's an interesting explanation, and not one that seems
implausible to me.  My best guess involves speculations on what goes
on at British boarding schools ...

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
From: mickw@autodesk.com (Mick Washbrook)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Legos
Date: 14 Dec 92 21:34:38 GMT

In article <manz.724324699@ee.ualberta.ca>, manz@ee.ualberta.ca (Brett {Druid Queen} Manz) writes:
> 
> My brother, who is about as breeder as they get, was similarly
> disposed towards Lego, but not nearly as adept as I at its use.
> He abandoned Lego some years ago (bequeathing his entire collection
> to me!)

Pah! Lego--pure kid's stuff. If you really wanted to "wow" people, you
should have had a Meccano set, preferably a 7, 8, 9, or (gasp), a 10.
You could build *really* complicated gear mechanisms, clutch different-
ials, and so on. Of course, I meant "you" in the colloquial sense: even
though the box clearly said "For expert engineers aged 10 and over,"
even at the age of 21 I could never build anything that had *any*
moving parts. I must be engineering-impaired. I believe that in America,
they were called "erector" (blush) sets, or summut like that. Do Meccano
sets still exit? My brother stole mine years ago; he's probably waiting
to sell it for $500, along with my Dinky "Captain Scarlet" toys.
Bastard.



--
Death to all fanatics!!

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Are there any "cures" for homosexuality?
Date: 14 Dec 92 14:37:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec14.143751.28076
Organization: insert anything here

hughes@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes) writes:
>Minotaur@cup.portal.com (A Frank Swilling) writes:

>>Nice try, bucko!  Here, hold my place in the Clue Line,
>>and watch out for meteors.

>   If they were *meteorites* Frank, I'd have something to worry about.

	Hey, no fair cutting into the clue line.

	Fact is, Frank is right and you are wrong.

	There is a difference between metorite, meteor, and meteoroid.

	I wouldn't be worried about meteorites, they are already 
ont eh ground, and tend not to jump out at you and crush you.
I wouldn't be worried about meteoroids, since they are wandering
around in the universe, minding their own business, and aren't (yet)
interested in making Earth their final resting place.

	I would be more worried about meteors since I would hate
to be the first thing they come in contact with as they transform
from meteor to meteorite.

BBC

Ob-bad_joke:

Q: What the last thing that goes thru a bug's mind when 
	it hits your windshield?

A: It's asshole
From: jefu@nmt.edu (Jeff Putnam)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: PHOBE ALERT:  Clinton Faces Firestorm on Military Issue
Date: 19 Dec 92 14:03:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: nmt.1992Dec19.140343.15446
Organization: The Museum of Differential Geometry

In article <158@bbx.basis.com> scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker) writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.174730.3285@draco.macsch.com> bjb@macsch.com (Bryan) writes:
>>          --  CLINTON FACES FIRESTORM ON GAYS IN THE MILITARY --

>>     If they win, gay militants will turn on the civilian sector 
>>demanding the right to marry, to adopt and to teach homosexuality in 
>>schools.

I was waiting for someone else to report this, but since nobody has...

While cooking supper the other night I caught bits and pieces of an
evening news (national, not sure which network) piece about anti-gay
discrimination in the Navy.  It _sounded_ like someone in the navy
was either murdered or committed suicide because of the harassment he
caught by being more or less openly gay.  The piece went to to
conclude (something like) that this would be more commonplace if
Clinton lifted the ban.  No conclusions were drawn about the lifting
of the ban, but the general slant of the piece _seemed_ to be 
that these poor gay people are going to be harassed dreadfully if
the ban is lifted, so policy shouldnt be changed for their own good.

I'm sure someone out there saw the whole thing and can rectify
my (probably complete) misreporting.



-- 
jefu <=> Jeff Putnam - New Mexico Tech <=> jefu@nmt.edu 
"Daffodils go Ping! and Oink! // They Really are alarming 
I'm scared of big geraniums // And I'm sure that Lilac's harming"
(Dr. Bertram X. Fegg)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ne.motss,soc.culture.african-american
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Drooling over the "Europa, Europa" guy.
Date: 20 Dec 92 19:09:36 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Dec20.172546.14301@nstn.ns.ca> daniel@nstn.ns.ca (Daniel MacKay) writes:
>OK.  I have this confusion cleared up.  I didn't *see* Europa- I checked
>with the rep theatre that I didn't see it at.  I saw "Europa, Europa",
>which was known in the States as "Zentropa."  Sigh.  

"Zentropa" and "Europa, Europa" are two very different movies.
We've been talking about the second.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Aladdin (was Re: Jason and the Argonauts)
Date: 15 Dec 92 13:58:18 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

>Oh honey, me too.  I've seen it twice, and I'm ready to go back.  For
>some reason, he's quite the cartoon hunk.  

I suspect that it has a lots to do with the animators... they used the 
best of Hammer, the Calvin ads, and of course the video tapes of Scott
and ??? (I want to say Kurt... but that's not the singer's name).  Put
all of those together, and you have a deadly babe!

>It's funny: one of my good
>straight friends who I've strongly suspected of having "those"
>tendencies has seen the movie three times already, and is obviously
>infatuated with Aladdin. 

Aladdin is a *safe* male to fall in love with :)  If your friend had
pictures of Mel Gibson, Tom Cruise, etc. around his room that would be 
had to "explain" :)

This weeks (or was it last weeks) people had an article on Scott Weinger,
who is the teen who played the voice of Aladdin.  Disney showed us the 
singer who lent his voice, too... that opening scene with the bread had
me spell-bound from the start.  The singer (God, I wish I could remember 
his name), was just super... definitely well-trained (and sounds like a
cool, fun-loving, and playful type, if you know what I mean).

Later...
Tom
-- 
| Tom Barrett (TDBear), Sr. Engineer | tom.barrett@amd.com
| AMD PCD / Austin, TX  78741        | v:512-462-6856 / f:512-462-5155
| "No is Yes, and We are All FREE!"  | CO made a #2 no-no... PU!
| My views may not be shared by the organization of origin
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: nigel@stonewall.demon.co.uk (Nigel Whitfield)
Subject: Re: Top GLB Fiction
Organization: Jenny Agutter Fan Club
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 08:40:03 +0000

In article <cccrsbc8.724635893@brolga> cccrsbc8@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (cc rs) writes:
>I was wondering if you guys would mind contributing
>to a list of books by GLB authors or about GLB topics
>that you would recommend as essential motss reading:
[...]
>Ed White:  Boy's own Story

I'm afraid that I could never really get into Boy's own Story. On the
other hand, there was an article by Edmund White in the Guardian last
weekend. [Ignore this sentents - gratuitous test of Jess's kill file ]
It described his first experience - much better than the books. Perhaps
because it was so short....

If you want essential reading, something with a little humour wouldn't
go amiss. Perhaps either Tales of the City or one of the Joe Keenan
books. Try also 'The Men with the Pink Triangle"

Nigel.
-- 
[Nigel Whitfield                               nigel@stonewall.demon.co.uk]
[For details on the uk-motss mailing list mail uk-motss-request@pyra.co.uk]
[*****  All demon.co.uk sites are independently run internet hosts   *****]

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Castro Street (Re: Two threads:  women posting and "cures" and its spinoffs)
Organization: Home of the @&#^%$* Crimson Tide
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:12:13 GMT

In article <BzBpM6.EF7@fig.citib.com>
glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
 
>
>Based on a private email conversation, I decided to go
>back and re-read this.
>
 
(Unpleasant and often inscrutable exchange between myself and Steve Dyer
-- and Greg's valiant attempt to make sense of it -- deleted)
>
>Off to a bad start and it's all my fault :-(
>
Having played a pretty big part in all this unpleasantness, I refuse
to let Greg take any of the blame for it. I've made my apologies as
best I could to him and to the group as a whole, and I have to say again
that a lot of this would have been avoided if I'd been more clear -- per-
haps in my own head -- before I started writing. This is *not* Greg's
fault. So if he doesn't stop beating himself up, I'm going to cross-
post a lot of icky e-hugs and crap from soc.bi just to warm this place
up a little.  : )
 
Tracey
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality