From: davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn)
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Organization: Qld Dept Primary Industries
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 04:24:08 GMT

In article <mykes.0cxk@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.035014.22539@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au> davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn) writes:
>> In article <mykes.0cwe@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>> >
>> >Great!  Put me in your killfile.  Whatever yanks your chain.
>>
>> Nay, not mine.  I agree with a lot of what you say, but not the tone you've
>> been using.  It's wearing a bit thin.
>>
>
>The tone I am using?  It is more like yours, where instead of just ignorantly
>bashing other computers that used to be "lessor" technology, I am starting
>to reject the ignorance.

So, I try to get some constructive suggestions from you, and you flame me.
Great.  If you can find one instance of me ignorantly bashing other computers,
I'd like to see it.  If you really think I'm ignorant, maybe you should tell my
employers, who pay me to manage networks of PCs and workstations, and develop
PC applications.  In fact, I find it hard to believe you wrote that - we've had
quite sensible discussions in the past concerning Amigas and PCs.  Why suddenly
accuse me of ignorance now?

>And flame CBM.  If you don't like me flaming CBM, tough.

What I don't like is constant bitching with no alternatives being suggested.
I tried to get you to say what should be happening, and it looks like I've
succeeded.  Now, we can argue over the merits of what you suggest, rather than
"CBM sux!" - "Does not!" - "Does too!!" type stuff.

>What DO I want to see happen now?  You WON'T like it...

Luckily, I don't have to...   :-)

>If I were CBM, I'd be
>looking at a 486 box with custom chipsets and AmigaOS and DOS compatibility.

A 486 box with Amiga chips could have AmigaOS ported to it, sure, but that
won't let it run Amiga software.  Commodore should develop a 68000 emulator,
you say?  What an awful solution - trying to run a PC emulator on a 680x0 is
bad enough, but a 486 would have real trouble emulating a 68k - not enough
registers, you see.  It could be done, but oh, so slow!

>Yes, 486.  As much as I love the 68K line, it is a niche market, at best. 

So Apple should start making 486 machines too, eh?  They're moving to risc in
the future, sure, but NOT the x86 chips.

Besides, what's wrong with the Amiga occupying a niche?  I've said it before -
anyone who ever expected the Amiga to take over the market from the IBM clones
isn't in the real world.  But it can (and has) establish a market share, or
niche, if you like, and keep it.  Even flourish, on it's own terms.

>But a 486 makes it possible for Borland to port C++ to AmigaOS and for Lotus
>to port 1-2-3.  Give it those Kludged up 16-bit ISA slots so we can use those
>cheapo hardware addons.

What's the point of all this, though?  You yourself have said that OS/2 is just
like AmigaOS, only better, and OS/2 apps are AmigaOS apps.  So, why bother
porting AmigaOS to the 486, then putting up with poor performance in Amiga
software because of the emulator.  If there's no 68k emulation, current Amiga
software will need to be ported to this 486 AmigaOS environment.  They might
as well just port to OS/2 and be done with it.

>The A600 _could_ be the same price and have a 386 in it.  Think about it...

I doubt that a 386 system, with new custom chips, and a new OS, could sell
for $400.  Who'd buy it?  Hardly any games would be available, for one thing.
You might as well just forget the Amiga bits, and have, say, a 386 in an A600
style case, with VGA on the motherboard, with video (TV) output support, and
have it run DOS.  You could do that for that price, but it would be a PC, not
an Amiga.

>> Do you think that C= should just give up all Amiga development and only sell
>> clones from now on?  Should all of us who own Amigas throw them out and buy
>> 486s with OS/2?
>
>No, I think C= should marry their technology to what 20 or 30 times as many
>people are using.

Personally, I get a kick out of using something different.  I don't feel any
need to fit in with the crowd, as long as we have reasonable software support.
And, yes, that's a BIG if - I'll give you that.

>Should anyone who has an A3000 throw it away?  No.  But if
>you are going to jump ship, it is the best time NOW to do it.

Funny you should say that just as we're finally getting new machines with new
graphics and all that.  If new machines weren't appearing, I'd agree with you.

>Should people buy NEW Amiga machines?  NO WAY.

Sorry, but I'm going to.  I'm looking forward to it, too!

>> I can tell you what I'm going to be doing - I'm going to buy one of the new
>> systems when they appear (assuming the price is reasonable).  I plan on using
>> Amigas for years to come, and look forward to the introduction of new
>> technologies, such as RTG, in the not-too-distant future.
>>
>> Maybe I'm an optimist, but that's the plan.
>
>Sorry, but you sound like you want to chain yourself into a dead end.  FWIW,
>OS/2 is as much of a dead end, at least for now.

I disagree on both counts.  Let's imagine that the new machines don't live up
to my expectations on features and/or price.  I'd then buy a 486, and install
OS/2 on it.  It is in a similar situation to the Amiga - clearly better in
terms of design, but not selling as well as the kludgy alternatives, which have
more support.  I'm sure OS/2 has enough applications, or at least PD
alternatives, to keep me going, just as the Amiga does now.

Essentially, I have never seen PCs running DOS/Windows as the future.  I never
intended to stay with the Amiga forever, and back in 1986, when I bought my
A1000, I would have been amazed to hear that I hadn't moved to another platform
by '92.  I've been waiting for another platform to come along.  It hasn't yet,
and I want to be able to keep using Amigas until I can see an alternative.
That may well be a 486 (or P5) running OS/2 2.0, or OS/2 3.0 (Win NT), but
not yet.  It may be a cheap risc system running NT - but not for a couple more
years, I think.

So, I haven't reached the end of the dead end yet, and the other tracks aren't
clear yet.  I'll just have to keep going for the time being.

>I told you you wouldn't like my solution. :)

True.   :-)


-- 

David Meiklejohn                  | Internet : davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au
Computer Systems Officer, QDPI    | Fax      : +61 70 92 3593
Mareeba, Australia                | Voice    : +61 70 92 1555
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy