HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ba903@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Charles P. Hobbs)
Subject: Re:  High Speed Rail in Southern California
Reply-To: ba903@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Charles P. Hobbs)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 05:07:03 GMT


In a previous article, gregg@pinot.zehntel.com (Gregg Fuhriman) says:
>Yes.  It looks like TEHACHAPI LOOP.  You must have at least heard about
>this landmark of western railroading ?!?
>
>  The trackage from Mojave to Bakersfield crosses the Tehachapi Mountains.
>It is owned by Southern Pacific, who shares it with Santa Fe, making this
>one of the best train chasing areas in the West.  It it very twisty, lots
>of tunnels with some fairly stiff grades.  Amtrak does not run trains over
>this pass.  The San Joaquin trains run from the Bay Area to Bakersfield,
>and busses are used to connect to L.A.  The Coast Starlight train runs
>from Bay Area to L.A. using SP's coast route (through San Luis Obispo).
>
>Theoretically, passenger trains could use this route, but it would cause
>big headaches for the freight operators.  Often there are "train-jams"
>as it is, and working around passenger train schedules would certainly
>not help this situation.
>
In a 1991 report put out by California, some consideration is given
to extending two San Joaquins between Los Angeles and Bakersfield, via
the Tehachapi Loop.
 
710 and 711 would be extended, adding an additional 5-6 hours to the trip. 
 
It was stressed that service along this portion of the route
 would be non time sensitive....
 
No definite plans have been set for this service, but I'd look for it
in 2-3 years....
>					Gregg Fuhriman
>

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org
Subject: Re: A few interurban questions
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA 01730
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:50:24 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.210129.20609@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema) writes:
 
>
>
>  What does CERA stand for?
>--
 
Central Electric Railfans' Association.
 
They publish (generally once a year) books which are a benefit of membership.
Associate membership (which entitles one to the books) cost something like $20.
Regular (voting/meeting attending) membership is available to people living in
the Chicago area.  Sorry I don't have the address here.  I'll bring it in
tomorrow and post it if somebody else hasn't done so by then.
 
 
Len Bachelder        Archives Committee, Boston and Maine RR Historical Society
MITRE Corp.           Secretary, Massachusetts Bay Railroad Enthusiasts
Bedford MA 01730      Member, 470 Railroad Club
<M00209@mbvm.mitre.org>
 
"Amazing love, how can it be that Thou, my God, should'st die for me!"
                                                 - Charles Wesley
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Subject: Re: TRIP REPORT NEW HAMPSHIRE
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 20:25:12 GMT


Thanks for the correction.  I believe it was 2-8-0 #501 that
I saw.  I haven't got my pictures back yet, which explains
my original error.

I find it interesting that you list all the steam locomotives,
but do not make any mention of their diesels which are now
just as historic.  Could it be that train fans, myself
included, are still a bit contemptous of diesels?
This is a topic for discussion.  How do fans feel about
early diesels preserved by clubs and museums?
~S
.


--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
From: brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Old cars never die, they just....
Date: 1 Sep 92 04:42:16 GMT
Reply-To: brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Columbia University

In article <2404@tymix.Tymnet.COM> burke@doright.Tymnet.COM (John
Burke) writes:

>Stan Fischler, in his book "Uptown, Downtown"

Good writing, often poor information.  Beware using this as a source.


>The interesting tale is: in the 60's they were scrapping the last of
>the IRT Hi-V and Lo-V cars - the backbone of IRT service until the
. . .
>Well, some employees felt they shouldn't let every last one of those
>cars get destroyed, so they set out to foil the scrap brigade.  Now,
. . .
>So a conspiracy was set up, and they took several of the Lo-V's and
>hid them in the tunnels!  Eventually the scrappers would realize that

This is hard to believe.  It's probably based on something that
happened, but seems to me to have grown in the telling.

For one thing, the idea of a museum of subway cars dates back to 1964,
at the time of the World's Fair.  A train of Lo-V's was restored at
that time and run occasionally on the Flushing Line, and later
sometimes on the 3d Ave El in the Bronx.

The cars preserved today in the museum are those that survived as late
as 1964.  Anything gone by then is not there.  This suggests strongly
that the preservation was deliberate.  A location for the museum was
sought for many years before it opened in 1976.

--Joe Brennan
From: mitch@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mitch Blank)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: A few interurban questions
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:28:02 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee

| Jon Roma writes:
| M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org writes:
| >In article <1992Aug24.011145.5059@gw.wmich.edu>
| >31ochs@gw.wmich.edu writes:
| 
| >>There were 2 interurban lines coming south out of Milwaukee, one went right
| >>next to the C&NW line(NW in the book I have, I don't think C&NW existed yet
| >>in 1928) one goes thru Cudahy. Again, sorry I can't give you any names,
| >>the book doesn't list the names of the interurban lines.
| 
| >Are you sure?  The only one I know of was the "North Shore Line", the
| >Chicago, North Shore and Milwaukee.  If there was another, it must have
| >been a suburban route of the Milwaukee Electric.  That company's real
| >interurban lines went west and north from Milwaukee.
| 
| The TMER&L (*) did indeed have a line that ran south to Racine and Kenosha
| in addition to the more noted lines to Hales Corners, Waukesha, etc.  I
| don't have my sources handy but recall that the Kenosha line was an early
| casualty (depression years, perhaps?) due to the competition from CNS&M,
| C&NW, and (to a lesser extent) CMStP&P in the territory.

Actually, although there were indeed two interurban's through Cudahy
(The CNS&M `North Shore' and the TMER&L), it is not clear that either of
these is what the original message was refering to.  There was in fact a
*third* electric line through Cudahy:  The TMER&L *suburban* service to
Cudahy & South Milwaukee.  Both this line *and* the TMER&L interurban did
follow an alignment of the C&NW:

Working west from the lake, the north-south trackage was approximately (they
sometimes cross):

	1)	The TMER&L Suburban line
	2)	The C&NW Old Line subdivision
		(These two are adjacent at Cudahy, and about a mile from
			the lake)

	3)	The TMER&L Interurban Line
	4)	The C&NW New Line subdivison
		(These two are adjacent at Cudahy, and about two miles
			from the lake)

	5)	The CNS&M `North Shore'
	6)	The CMStP&P (Milwaukee Road)
		(These two are almost adjacent at Cudahy, and about
		3.5 miles from the lake)


| >Again, the
| >definitive answer to all questions about Midwestern interurbans is
| >contained in the relevant volume from the CERA.
| 
| Quite definitely, although many of the CERA volumes are nearly impossible
| to find.

Yes.  It would be nice of some of these rare ones like `TM' would be
reprinted at some time.

						Mitch

P.S:  If anyone has a copy of CERA's `TM' for sale, I am looking for one.
From: stnd@gibbs.physics.purdue.edu (Scott N. Dickson)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: K B & S     What is it ?????????????
Date: 26 Aug 92 04:19:51 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Physics Department



I live just west of Lafayette, Indiana.  The former NKP, NYC line
that parallels US 52 is pretty close, close enough that I cross
it several times a day.  I know it wasn't abandoned, but traffic
had really dwindled.  But lately, judging by the flange marks in
the dirt at the crossings and the "shinyness" of the rails,
traffic has really picked up.  I finally saw a train on this
line, but what a surprise!!

The engines were marked "K B & S".  What is the K B & S????  Its
not listed in my Rand McNally Railroad Atlas.  Is this a new
short-line?  Does anybody out there have any information?

The engines themselves looked pretty beat up, like when you apply
new paint to an old car without doing any bodywork or surface
prep.  I'm not good at model numbers, but my guess would by
GP9's.  They were high nose.  The lead engine was smoking badly,
as if it was badly out of tune or pre-emissions (do locomotives
have to conform to a federal emissions standard?).  I can't say
for sure whether or not the second loco was running.  They were
moving pretty well,  I'm guessing 45mph.  There were
approximately 5 grain hopper type cars in the train.

Any information about this operation would be greatly
appreciated.

BTW, I love this group.  I post about twice a year.  But the
signal-to-noise ratio in this group is better than any other
group I read.  There are so many knowledgeable people out there,
from the many steam volunteers, to the real modern railroaders
like Steve Hooper, to the subway archeologists like Joe Brennan. 
There are so many of you I haven't mentioned, I'm sorry.  You all
make this worth reading.  I've learned so much!  Thanks,
rec.railroad 'ers   
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: cab@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (carl.a.benevit)
Subject: Re: Reading 2100 information
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 11:58:57 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.195034.25903@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> desherry@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (douglas.e.sherry) writes:
>>
>There is a book about the T1 engines, I don't have the title handy. Also the
>book Reading Power Picturial has info about the T1 engines.
>>Thanks,
>>
>>PS> Oddly enough, 2102 is not run much on the BM&R.  They use their 1920's  
>>(?) Baldwin-built 4-6-2, number 425, for their regular runs and  
>>excursions.  Go figure!
>>
>The 2102 is currently undergoing maint, but is used some on the Reading,Blue 
>Mountain, and Northern.

The book (memory working here) is Readings Northerns (I THINK...). It's
a 14x8 soft cover format, entirely on the T1 engines. The Reading Power
Pictorial is out of print (glad I have one). A more recent book is
Memories of Reading Company Power by Paul and Daphne Carlton (D. Carlton
Railbooks publisher). 2102 was used on the Hamburg/Temple run back in
1990 for a special weekend in September. I rode it then. FAST ride!

A brief history...

The Reading owned 50 2-8-0 engines class I10 (Big Consolidations!)
# 2000-2049. In 1945, #2020-2049 were pulled and used for parts
for the T1 northerns. Boiler was extended, new cast frame and other
parts used. The remainder of the I10 leftovers (wheels and other
parts were used to upgrade older I class 2-8-0 engines). The T1's
were all built in the Reading shops. There are four surviving
T1's. 2102 in Hamburg, PA, 2100 somewhere out west (Ohio?) both
alive, 2124 at Steamtown in Scranton (requires complete overhaul)
and 2101, ex Freedom Train (East Coast), Chessie Steam Special,
et al. fried in a fire, and currently a static display at the
B&O Railroad Museum (in Freedom Train Paint) at Baltimore MD.
From: pgifford@reis36.alleg.edu (Pete Gifford)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Reading 2100 information
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:39:09 GMT
Organization: Allegheny College

I recently had the chance to visit the Blue Mountain and Reading Railroad  
in Reading/Hamburg, PA.  They have a restored Baldwin-built Reading 2100  
steam locomotive, Number 2102 I beleive.  Can anyone offer suggestions of  
how to get more information about these wonderful machines?

Thanks,

Pete Gifford
pgifford@alleg.edu

PS> Oddly enough, 2102 is not run much on the BM&R.  They use their 1920's  
(?) Baldwin-built 4-6-2, number 425, for their regular runs and  
excursions.  Go figure!
From: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: questions about the history of the Great Western
Date: 1 Sep 1992 21:18:46 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, larsenp@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Paul Larsen) says:

>I have a few questions about the Great Western Railroad (the part in 
>Colorado).  

  I don't have all the info I need here, but I can help in a few areas.

>1. How long has this been in existence?  Obviously it is an offshoot of the
>BN but did it acquire its lines through the disposition of BN lines after
>the BN merger in the early '70's?

  The GW was originally the private railroad of the Great Western
Sugar Company.  It goes back at least to the 1920's, and probably further.

>4. What happened to all of the sugar beet cars they used to have and why did
>the sugar beet business crash so bad?

  The Great Western Sugar Company went bankrupt in the 70's, and the railroad
ceased operation.  They had, at that time, several diesels (EMD switchers
mostly, I think), but a few years before bankruptcy, they also had three 
operable steam engines.  These were original GW engines they had retained 
after their dieselization.  They occasionally saw freight service during the 
height of the beet-harvest, but were used mostly for special excursions.  The 
most famous of these was GW decapod #90, a "Russian Decapod" purchased new by 
GW (which is why I say the GW began pre-1920).  It was finally sold to the 
Strasburg Railroad in Pennsylvania where it continues to be used.  The other 
engines were #51 (2-8-0) and either #60 or #75 (wheel arr. unk.).  #51 has 
been barnstorming the country under private ownership, at one point returning 
to the "new GW" for a few months, until farmers started making noises about 
grass fires.  
  At the time it went bankrupt, GW also had a number of steam "dinkies" to 
switch the beet elevators.  I think they all got scrapped.
  In the early '80's a new shortline calling itself "Great Western" bought the
old GW's lines and began operations in the new red-and-white.
  
>5. Finally, how did they get a hold of the rights to serve the Coors brewery
>in Golden?  I can't imagine that BN would give up the rights to a company
>that ships about 90% of its product by rail!
>
>6. Oh, yeah.  One last question.  Anyone know the motive power roster of the 
>GW?

That's probably in the new third edition of _Diesel Locomotive Rosters_.


-- 
 o__II___---__---__---___I~~~|~______________    |~~~~~~|~~|~~~~~~| |~~~~~~|~~|
 _|______________________|___|_|     3000    `\  |      |  |      | |      |  |
/ o~~O-O-O-O-O~~O-O-O-O-O~~o~~~~o-o-o~~~~o-o-o~~~~o--o~~~~~~~~o--o~~~o--o~~~~~~
Evan Werkema---------------------------------------------------elw4@po.cwru.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: roma@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Roma)
Subject: Re: What is an interlocking? (was: Signal type)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 01:49:52 GMT

romeo@niagara.Tymnet.COM (Michael Stimac) writes:

>The connection of a siding to
>a main track is not normally protected by an interlocking
>unless such connection is within the bounds of an interlocking
>that exists for another reason.

What I think you're trying to say is that industry tracks aren't normally
interlocked unless they're within the limits of an interlocking that exists
for another reason.  These are normally equipped with electric locks, as
has been discussed recently.

Industry tracks and passing sidings are distinct entities; the majority of
interlockings existing today are CTC control points that exist solely
to protect connections to a passing siding.  

>Over the past few years, more and more cTc is being installed,
>and the operation of central control supplants traditional
>interlocking in some cases. Under cTc, siding connections
>to the main are called "OS" sections, and electrical circuitry
>provides many of the safety functions of interlocking.

>A similar technique is used with the new computerized central
>control dispatcher consoles.

The method of control has next to nothing to do with the safety aspects
of an interlocking.  The equipment on the dispatcher's desk has only two
functions: to issue requests to the field locations and to receive responses
from these locations.  Regardless of whether the dispatcher uses an
old-fashioned panel with levers and buttons or whether uses a mouse and
color CRT, all of the safety functions of CTC are handled by circuitry or
software at trackside.  It is this equipment that determines whether a
dispatcher request (e. g., to move a turnout or clear a signal) may be
done safely.

>Interlockings are a super subject of study for railfans who
>also enjoy logic.

That they are!
-- 
Jon Roma
Computing and Communications Services Office,
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Internet:  roma@uiuc.edu      	UUCP:      uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!roma
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: dboone@iastate.edu (David L Boone)
Subject: Re: rail grinder in ames
Reply-To: dboone@iastate.edu (David L Boone)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:40:26 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.230022.5116@gw.wmich.edu>, 737ochs@gw.wmich.edu writes:
> In article <wh20.715475773@vincent1.iastate.edu>, wh20@iastate.edu 
>    (Gregory D Westwater) writes:
> > I was driving down Lincoln Way and saw an unusual piece of equipment on 
> > the CNW mainline.  I took a side road to look at it and identified it as 
> > a rail grinder.  The grinder is parking overnight on a siding just west 
> > of Grand Ave.  I talked shortly with
> 
> Which company was this? Speno, Loram or Pan(something) Jackson (I can't seem
> to recall the name off the top of my head)
>    ...
>
> Fred Ochs
> (different account, same person ;^)
 
It was the Pandrol Jackson equipment.  They seem to be making a yearly trek 
on the line from Eagle Grove.  (This was built originally as the Des Moines 
and Minnesota, which I presume was a subsidiary of the C&NW.)  I caught them 
heading northbound last year, sparks a-flyin'.  Quite a sight, indeed.  I 
even managed to get a couple of shots of it.  Yes, they do photograph well.  
(My boss didn't even mind too much that I was a half hour late for work. :^)  
I missed it this time,  :^(  though a friend of mine saw it pass through 
Gilbert, just north of Ames.
--
David L. Boone
Engineer, Iowa State University Computation Center
Internet: dboone@iastate.edu    Bitnet:  gn.dlb@isumvs
Voice:    (515) 294-1977        US mail: 74 Durham Hall, Ames, IA 50011
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org
Subject: Re: MBTA Expands Commuter Rail Service
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA 01730
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:58:37 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.193747.25368@s1.gov>
lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
 
>        [Article on that subject deleted...]
>
>        [MBTA == Boston area]
>
Somebody asked me to post the status of proposed extensions of service beyond
Forge Park to Bellingham and beyond Stoughton to wherever.
 
As far as I know, both of these extensions are still officially in the plans.
But I wouldn't hold my breath.  Massachusetts is as broke as any other State,
perhaps more so than most, and any money available for commuter rail is going
first to the Old Colony, then to double-tracking the Haverhill line, then to
Worcester and Newburyport.  A Bellingham extension would not cost an awful lot
as the track is there and is in regular service.  On the other hand, it
probably wouldn't generate much additional ridership either, as Bellingham folk
can easily go to Forge Park where there is a huge parking lot adjacent to I-495
already.  An extension beyond Stoughton to Taunton and perhaps all the way to
New Bedford is officially planned, and politically desirable.  The MBTA (or
some other State agency I'm not sure) owns the right of way from Stoughton to
Taunton, and of course beyond that there is regular freight service to New
Bedford.  However, it would be a very expensive project - on the same order of
magnitude as the Old Colony extensions, and thus IMHO probably won't happen in
our lifetime.
 
 
Len Bachelder        Archives Committee, Boston and Maine RR Historical Society
MITRE Corp.           Secretary, Massachusetts Bay Railroad Enthusiasts
Bedford MA 01730      Member, 470 Railroad Club
<M00209@mbvm.mitre.org>
 
"Amazing love, how can it be that Thou, my God, should'st die for me!"
                                                 - Charles Wesley
From: rfj@alpha.sunquest.com (RICHARD F. JONES)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Could use some help with....
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:38:00 GMT
Organization: Sunquest Information Systems, Tucson AZ
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

Greetings!!

Okay, I admit it.   I don't know a Dash-8 from a rambler but I would 
like to learn.

Does anyone know of a book or books that show/describe all the major 
types of engines, past & present, their designators, etc.???  

I am a railfan and have some great photos of rails, took my first rail 
trip in July, but could use some education.

Please let me know some books that I can get to help me become better 
educated on what I love so dearly.  

Thanks in advance.

Richard Jones    RFJ@ALPHA.SUNQUEST.COM  -  INTERNET
From: jws7@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JEFF W SCHRAMM)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: A few interurban questions
Date: 1 Sep 92 17:27:56 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Aug31.210129.20609@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan
L. Werkema) writes:
>
>In a previous article, mitch@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mitch Blank) says:
>

>
>  What does CERA stand for?

    CERA = Central Electric Railfans Association.  Most are out of print but
    try some of the local swap sessions and some good hobby shops may have
    some burried in the backroom somewhere.  Also on a traction note...The new
    Illinois Terminal book is very nice...and very costly.
    Jeff Schramm, Lehigh University, Bethlehem, PA.


>--
> o__II___---__---__---___I~~~|~______________    |~~~~~~|~~|~~~~~~| |~~~~~~|~~|
> _|______________________|___|_|     3000    `\  |      |  |      | |      |  |
>/ o~~O-O-O-O-O~~O-O-O-O-O~~o~~~~o-o-o~~~~o-o-o~~~~o--o~~~~~~~~o--o~~~o--o~~~~~~
>Evan Werkema---------------------------------------------------elw4@po.cwru.edu
>
Newsgroups: rec.railroad