HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sivap-s@acsu.buffalo.edu (Suresh .S)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
Subject: Re: Solaris 2.0/2.1 Realtime programming
Date: 18 Nov 92 19:18:23 GMT
Distribution: comp.unix.wizards
Organization: UB
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Sinan Karasu (sinan@bcsaic.boeing.com) wrote:
: Hi wizards,
: I am porting an application that requires very fine
: timing control to Solaris 2.0/2.1. I need to be able to schedule
: my program at given time increments. The time increment can be
: anywhere from 1 millisecond to 50 milliseconds. I gave played
: with setitimer and SIGALRM , they do work fine except I can not
: get better than 10 millisecond granularity. So I decided
: to try something more hardware oriented and noticed that there are
: 2 timer/counters in the MMU chip.
: Questions:


One indirect way of timing with a fine control  is using select() call
with NULL descriptors set and appropriately setting the struct timeval.


By setting the struct timeval buf you can  get timings of the order of
microseconds !!.

-- 
Suresh Sivaprakasam                    
Department of Computer Science,    SUNY Buffalo,    Amherst,   NY - 14260-0001
Internet :sivap-s@cs.Buffalo.EDU               Bitnet : sivap-s@SUNYBCS.BITNET
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
From: fitzgb@mml0.meche.rpi.edu (Brian Fitzgerald)
Subject: Re: Thanks,
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:14:11 GMT

Domenico De Vitto writes:
>need not prove it to you lot!
>
>I did think that this group (that I've been reading for 2 years) had settled
>down and didn't have any 'children' actively reading it, I was wrong (sadly).

That's a shame.

Fellow readers, please, no abusive posting or email, ok?

RTFNettiquette :-)

Thanks,

Brian

Followup to email or to comp.unix.wizards
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards,comp.unix.shell
From: shobhana@shakti.ncst.ernet.in (Shobhana)
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Organization: CMIE, Bombay
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 13:36:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov14.153857.1666@global.hacktic.nl> peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser) writes:
>mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse) writes:
>
>>	cat a b > b
>
>>files?  Consider instead "echo a b > b".[%]
>
>I did just that with bash and it didn't complain. But yet, echo is often a
>built-in command. It complained about 'cat a b >b' but didn't complain about
>'cat a b|cat>b' so it's not perfect.

I haven't followed this thread from the beginning, so if I am
saying something irrelevant let me know (oh, I'm sure you will ;-)

Anyway, cat's complaint about input and output file being the same
is produced by cat(1) and *not* by .*sh(1). So what *is* the problem?

I presume that there is a school of thought which says that *sh should
detect such problems and let you know about it. IMHO, the command
interpreter *cannot* and should not make such decisions. e.g the name
of a file means different things to cat(1) and echo(1)---sh(1) has *no*
way of knowing this and should not even attempt to guess.

Regards
From: postmaster@tintin.csl.sni.be
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
Subject: smtp mail warning
Date: 16 Nov 92 05:13:54 GMT

Your mail to magellan is not yet delivered.
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From Unix-Wizards Fri Nov 13 15:27:20 UT 1992 remote from BRL.MIL remote from tintin
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:27:20 UT
Reply-To: Unix-Wizards@BRL.MIL
From: "Terry Jeffery International Product Support Group"              <TGJ@UKHOUO.PRIME.COM>
Subject:      Configuring Racal Modem
X-To:         UNIX-WIZARDS@BRL.MIL
To: Multiple recipients of list UNIX-WIZ <UNIX-WIZ@VM1.NoDak.EDU>
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 612

I'm trying to configure a Racal-Vadic vi2422PA modem which is Hayes
Compatible on a Sparc 2. The problem is that the modem does not drop Carrier
Detect (CD) when there is no signal on the line. This causes getty to tie up
the serial port and prevent me calling out.

modem is set for xon/xoff using a straight through modem cable. Port config
is :-

ttyb-mode=9600,8,n,1,s
ttyb-rts-dtr-off=true
ttyb-ignore-cd=false

ttytab reads :-
cua1    "/usr/etc/getty std.2400"       unknown         off remote secure
ttyd1   "/usr/etc/getty std.2400"       dialup          on modem secure

ttyb has been renamed to ttyd1.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.misc
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:32:32 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.130341.8004@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse) writes:
> Where is it supposed to find the information it'll need to do that,
> such as what options the program takes, which arguments are files and
> which are strings, etc?

SYS$SYSTEM:LOGIN.COM

Um, I mean /etc/default/dcl.rc and ~/.dclrc
-- 
Peter da Silva / 77487-5012 USA / +1 713 274 5180
true(<<VV$@\\$'&O 9$O%'$LT$&$"V6"$&$<4$?'&$ #I&&?$=$<<@)24 24 scale 3 21 moveto
{dup 36 eq{pop not}{dup 7 and 4 sub exch 56 and 8 div 4 sub 2 index{rlineto}{
rmoveto}ifelse}ifelse}forall stroke pop showpage % Har du kramat din varg idag?
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.misc
From: bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au (Bernd Felsche)
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Organization: MetaPro Systems, Perth, Western Australia
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 02:54:01 GMT

In <id.SY1V.ITA@ferranti.com> peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva) writes:

>In article <1992Nov13.094336.2341@aber.ac.uk>
>   btk@aber.ac.uk (Ben Ketteridge) writes:
>> For example, just to take the 'cat a b > b' problem, you are suggesting IMHO
>> that the shell shouldn't check redirection of output against the input
>> and warn the user in this case.

>How does the shell know that the "b" argument to cat is the same as the "b"
>output file? Because the file exists?

>touch b a 
>cat a b > b 
>b: File exists.

>What's your problem?

[ maybe I misunderstand your followup, but ]
But isn't it too late when cat starts. "b" has already been truncated.

The "problem" is not in the arguments to a command; that'd
be ludicrous to parse and interpret, but rather in the
redirection to existing files. Some shells do incorporate
"noclobber" options so that a deliberate overwrite has to be
indicated using "!" after the redirection symbol. It's
interesting to note that those shells actually _need_
command history editing because of human factors!
-- 
+-----+ Bernd Felsche                     _--_|\  #include <std/disclaimer.h>
| | | | MetaPro Systems Pty Ltd          /      \ bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au
| | | | 328 Albany Highway,              X_.--._/         Fax: +61 9 472 3337
|m|p|s| Victoria Park, Western Australia 6100  v        Phone: +61 9 362 9355
From: peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 15:22:35 GMT
Organization: Global Village 1

bill@bilver.uucp (Bill Vermillion) writes:

>cat a b > b    I get this result

>cat: input/output files 'b' identical

GNU bash says:
cat: b: input file is output file

Xref: sparky comp.unix.wizards:4751 comp.unix.shell:4751 comp.unix.misc:4215
From: rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.misc
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:56:28 GMT
Followup-To: comp.unix.wizards
Organization: GSP Whitewater Slalom Racing Team

In article <1992Nov16.195733.14842@tamsun.tamu.edu> ski8032@tamsun.tamu.edu (The Man Behind The Curtain) writes:
>While some Un*x weenies may scoff at those who choose other alternatives,
>doing so only hurts Un*x, for by expanding and growing it can only improve.

This is a fascinating assertion; I submit that the historical record
shows, in excruciating detail, that the expansion and growth of Unix
has all-but-destroyed its simple elegance.  The gentle reader is
invited to read a v6 or v7 manual (which will only take an afternoon)
and then compare it to SunOS 4.1.3, for instance, with a careful eye
to the functionality/overhead ratio in both systems.

---Rsk
From: so@brownie.cs.wisc.edu (Bryan S. So)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Date: 18 Nov 92 02:26:21 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.


Concerning whether "cat a b > b" should prepend or give warning or does
whatever it's now doing,

In article <1992Nov13.094336.2341@aber.ac.uk> btk@aber.ac.uk (Ben Ketteridge) writes:

]     Actually, I think this example should work!  It is a perfectly 
]     reasonable request.  

Another opinion says,

In article <17934@autodesk.COM> dansmith@Autodesk.COM (Daniel Smith) writes:
)
)	No it isn't, consider my "glasses of water" theorem:
>
)
)         |         |          |           |
)         |~~~~~~~~~|          |~~~~~~~~~~~|
)         |         |          |           |
)         |         |          |           |
)         |    A    |          |    B      |
)         |         |          |           |
)          \_______/            \_________/
)
)
)	Ok, B can get bigger (i.e. a goblet, or a pitcher) to accept water
)from A, but what do you mean to do with B's original water?  I think
)B's original water must go to:
)
)         |      |_
)         |~~~~~~| \
)         |   C  | ||
)         |      |_/
)          \____/
)
)	C, an arbitrary coffee cup in n-dimensional cupboard space, which
)can expand to hold any amount of liquid found in A & B.  I think you're
)suggesting throwing B's water up in the air while A's water goes to B,
)and having B's water splash on top.  This violates most of the laws of kitchen
)physics (see Child, Julia "Fractal Baking") and just makes a big mess.
)The third container (Tupperware or otherwise) saves the day.  With
)this example, you could pour all of the water from C back into B (mv)
)and then put C in the dishwasher (rm).


I would think,

 This glasses of water theorem is biased in a sense that Cup C can
 expand to hold any amount of liquid while Cup A and Cup B cannot.

 My mental model interpret a file as "n-dimensional cupboard space,
 which can expand to hold any amount of liquid".  So, "cat a b > b"
 is reasonable.  


Bryan
From: dilger@toadflax.cs.ucdavis.edu (Mike Dilger)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
Subject: Select and stdio
Date: 15 Nov 92 19:56:16 GMT
Followup-To: dilger@toadflax.cs.ucdavis.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of California, Davis

Does anyone know if select still works on fd's when using the stdio
library on the equivalent streams?  I assume that the stdio library
reads the data and the select bit turns off for that fd.  If this
is the case, is there any equivalent stdio routine like select?

The reason I ask is I am trying to read/write sockets with stdio routines
instead of system calls (read/write), and I have several sockets that
I need to monitor for activity (without polling).

Thanks.

Mike	(dilger@toadflax.cs.ucdavis.edu)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.misc
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:14:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.193707.27532@chpc.utexas.edu> michael@chpc.utexas.edu (Michael Lemke) writes:
> This would all be
> solved if there were *one* system function that is used by all programs
> instead of having every program duplicate more or less the same
> functionality with different success.

See Eric Allman's "Parseargs" utility. It's great.

I have it set up so the same program on UNIX accepts:

	foo -abc -d bar
or
	foo +apple +banana +carrot +diet bar

And on AmigaOS (with a different convention):

	foo apple banana carrot diet=bar
or
	foo a b c d=bar

And it's also been extended to VMS and DOS:

	foo/apple/banana/carrot/diet=bar
or
	foo/apple/banana/carrot bar/diet
or
	foo/a/b/c bar/d
-- 
Peter da Silva / 77487-5012 USA / +1 713 274 5180
true(<<VV$@\\$'&O 9$O%'$LT$&$"V6"$&$<4$?'&$ #I&&?$=$<<@)24 24 scale 3 21 moveto
{dup 36 eq{pop not}{dup 7 and 4 sub exch 56 and 8 div 4 sub 2 index{rlineto}{
rmoveto}ifelse}ifelse}forall stroke pop showpage % Har du kramat din varg idag?
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
From: ccksb@trentu.ca (Ken Brown)
Subject: Help with disktab for Seagate st42100n
Organization: Trent University, Ontario
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 03:52:00 GMT

Hello wizards,

I have a Seagate ST42100N 1.9g scsi drive, DECstation 5000 and Ultrix
4.2.  I need a disktab entry for this drive, or pointers on where to get
one.  I am reluctant to re-invent the wheel and build one.

Any assistance and/or recomendations most welcome.  Please email responses
to me.

Thanks in advance.
-- 
====================================================================
Ken Brown                                       voice: (705)748-1540
Trent University Computing & Telecommunications   fax: (705)748-1246
Peterborough, Ontario, Canada K9J 7B8     internet: kbrown@trentu.ca
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards,comp.unix.questions
From: dold@unislc.uucp (Clarence Dold)
Subject: Re: Passing args to login(1)
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 03:23:34 GMT

From article <92323.143304AASSI@CUNYVM.BITNET>, by abraham <AASSI@CUNYVM.BITNET>:
>> From: pynq@quads.uchicago.edu (George Jetson)
>> Subject: Passing args to login(1)
>> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:58:21 GMT
>>
>> I am pretty sure that under at least some versions of Unix/login, you can
>> pass args in along with your login-id, and that these args would then be
>> available to your .login/.profile.  See below:
>>
>>         login: pynq and green
>>         Password:
>>
>>         Then $1 should be "and" and $2 should be "green".

Close.  The arguments are $L0="and", $L1="green", which you should have
noticed, when you did an "env" after login.

However, I find that this isn't supported on all of the systems I tried, but
it is on both SVR3.2 and SVR4 variants.

Check your "man login" to see if it is available. My SVR4:
"          either the form xxx or xxx=yyy. Arguments without an equals
"          sign are placed in the environment as
"               Ln=xxx
"          where n is a number starting at 0 and is incremented each

-- 
---
Clarence A Dold - dold@unislc.slc.Unisys.COM
               ...pyramid!ctnews!tsmiti!dold
From: gjb@fig.citib.com (Greg Brail)
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:59:11 GMT

In article <97716@netnews.upenn.edu> rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec) writes:
>In article <Bxq6uz.BB8@chinet.chi.il.us> les@chinet.chi.il.us (Leslie Mikesell) writes:
>>These problems could be solved as easily under unix as anywhere else,
>>except for the fact that people who have spent years learning unix
>>have forgotten that there is a problem.

Bravo! Exactly.

>"Problem" is a matter of opinion; I consider the items you list "features",
>and find the occasional toasting that they give to a user who didn't RTFM
>a helpful educational tool. 

Not too many years ago a bunch of Navy crewmen who hadn't read all the FMs
on the USS Vincennes blew up an airliner, killing hundreds of innocent people.
I realize this is an extreme example, but the stone-age attitude that
user interfaces must be cryptic to "teach the user a lesson" is alive and
well in UNIX. 

UNIX is becoming more and more common in commercial environments, but this 
attitude will drive people away. Fortunately, it's possible to give "Joe 
User" a reasonable interface and save the command line for the hackers.

I consider myself a fairly knowledgable UNIX user, but I still type 
"tar cvf file.tar ." from time to time and don't realize it until "file.tar"
recursively grows to 200MB and fills the filesystem. Feel free to laugh and
call me an idiot. I really couldn't care less. And I don't expect to
win this argument as long as it stays in comp.unix.wizards, where it
doesn't belong anyway.

> I happen to like the expert-friendly
>and relatively unforgiving nature of most Unix implmentations.  Those
>who feel otherwise are certainly free to implement whatever warm-fuzzy-
>hand-holding-protect-the-user-from-themselves features they wish.

That's why I have a Macintosh at home.
				
				greg
-- 
Greg Brail ------------------ Citibank -------------------- gjb@fig.citib.com
lose (lOOz) v. 1. a. To be unable to find; mislay. b. To incur the 
deprivation of, as by negligence or accident. 2. To be unable to maintain,
sustain, or keep. 3. The most commonly misspelled word on Usenet.
From: BOEHMS@utkvx.utcc.utk.edu
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
Subject: wizards
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:42:59 GMT

unsub to wizards
From: marvine@sun490.as.edu.tw (Yn Meng-Ku)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
Subject: Re:  UNIX-WIZARDS Digest  V17#004
Date: 23 Nov 92 00:30:44 GMT


Xref: sparky comp.unix.wizards:4715 comp.unix.shell:4726 comp.unix.misc:4187
From: barnett@grymoire.crd.ge.com (Bruce Barnett)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.misc
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Date: 16 Nov 92 11:46:53 GMT
	<aldavi01.721333614@starbase.spd.louisville.edu>
	<1992Nov13.094336.2341@aber.ac.uk>
Reply-To: barnett@crdgw1.ge.com
Organization: GE Corp. R & D, Schenectady, NY

In article <1992Nov13.094336.2341@aber.ac.uk> btk@aber.ac.uk (Ben Ketteridge) writes:
>For example, just to take the 'cat a b > b' problem, you are suggesting IMHO that
>the shell shouldn't check redirection of output against the input and warn the
>user in this case.

Suppose the command was
	prog >b
and "prog" was a shell script that said "cat a b"? Or a C, Lisp, or
Perl program?

How can the shell "know" that the output is also an input? It can't.

	
--
Bruce Barnett <barnett@crd.ge.com> uunet!crdgw1!barnett
From: postmaster@tintin.csl.sni.be
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
Subject: smtp mail failed
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:51:12 GMT

Your mail to magellan is undeliverable.
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Date:         Mon, 16 Nov 1992 10:54:35 EST
Reply-To: Unix-Wizards@BRL.MIL
From: Renney Thomas <V4062%TEMPLEVM.BITNET@VM1.NoDak.EDU>
Subject:      Quota Problem
To: Multiple recipients of list UNIX-WIZ <UNIX-WIZ@VM1.NoDak.EDU>
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 450

I am on a unix machine with disk quotas in effect. My disk quota is
limited to 3000m. The problem is that after a while the quota system
does'nt update my activities properly and refuses to let me write to disk.
This is even after I am well below the limit. My account manager has to
reset it,_every time_. What may be causing the problem? Any insights would
be appreciated.

Machine: CDC model ? based on MIPS RISC architecture.
OS :  EP/IX v 1.4.3
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
From: thf@zelator.in-berlin.de (Thomas Funke)
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Reply-To: thf@zelator.in-berlin.de (Thomas Funke)
Organization: NNU Corp. - NeXT is Not UN*X
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:22:37 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.234721.3224@nic.csu.net> oleg@gd. (Oleg Kibirev) writes:
> 
> This remindes me about real old Hewlett Packard BASIC interpeter...
> ???
> RUN
> ERROR 4578 IN LINE 8083

Well, this is good information: It tells you 

	- Look in the handbook at error number 4578
	- The error is found on line 8083

The UNIX way of life is this:

	Segmentation fault

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas Funke  ** E-mail: thf@zelator.in-berlin.de
NeXT-Developer * Unix-Consultant
------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky comp.unix.wizards:4788 comp.unix.shell:4778 comp.unix.misc:4244
From: leisner@wrc.xerox.com ( Marty Leisner)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.misc
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Date: 18 Nov 92 18:14:42 GMT
Reply-To: leisner@eso.mc.xerox.com
Followup-To: comp.unix.wizards,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.misc
Organization: Xerox
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

There is a problem with computers.  They aren't refrigerators or cars...you need to acquire expertise
to use them effectively.

There has been no gain in office productivity in the last decade (see my Open Channel column in IEEE
Computer, May, 1992 for more information).  A reason for the lack of productivity is:
	1) people don't realize they need to acquire expertise (not programmers!!  computer users...)
	2) people don't use Unix (Unix can be anything you want...if Rob you don't like something,
change it.

The biggest problem is many people don't recognize the level of expertise that is required...

--
marty
leisner.henr801c@xerox.com  leisner@eso.mc.xerox.com
Member of the League for Programming Freedom
Xref: sparky comp.unix.wizards:4705 comp.unix.shell:4719 comp.unix.misc:4174
From: peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.misc
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Date: 14 Nov 92 14:59:43 GMT
Organization: Global Village 1

kanderso@reed.edu (Karl Anderson) writes:

>Is there any reason why there can't be another stream for more
>user-friendly messages?

Yes! Feeping creaturism. I'm pro user friendly messages, but, IMHO, consistency
and clarity are much more important than verboseness. Furthermore, it would
require existing programs to be extended with the verbose message.

A better approach would be, IMHO, to leave the messages what they are and make
every program return a meaningful error number. A seperate program could
figure out which verbose message belongs to that number. That saves several K's
of text for each program and makes translation to foreign langauges much
easier. The user who uses such a tool gradually learns to associate the terse
error message to the verbose description. After a while, (s)he wouldn't need
the verbosity tool much anymore. That way the learning curve is less steep and
it doesn't affect the guru type, who ignores that verbosity tool, at all.

The attitude that it needs a steep learning curve to be useful is nonsense.

BTW, the above mentioned 'verbosity tool' is actually used by OS/2. Although
the difference is that OS/2 prints an error number and you have to type the
error number on the command line to get a meaningful message.

BTW^2, OS-9 (which has nothing to do with Plan 9 or OS/2) has a shell built-in
command which sets the verbosity level (the shell takes care of printing the
error messages, as far as I can remember, the command just returns the error
number) to either 'short' or 'long'.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.misc