HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXT's binaries need a diet, or the solution to NeXT's multiprocessor problem.
Date: 10 Nov 92 19:48:07 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

This machine-independant code is when NeXTStep is ported for many more
platforms than are around now.  I heard a rumor that NeXT is porting
NeXTStep to the Alpha chip, and the Sparc chip.  Now, an intermediate
binary is not needed, but in the future it will be needed unless you
want to bundle a ton of seperate binaries with your CD-ROM.  If you
have a speed-sensitive part of your program, you could have it
patched in after the code is "compiled" from the machine-independant
binary.

PS:  This is an idea for helping with multiple platforms.  If NeXTStep is
     remaining on only two platforms, FatBinaries are OK, but if rumors
     are true, a different system is needed.

-- 
******* ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas R. Floyd) ******
            Disclaimer: I speak for myself.

            Please, no NeXTMail at this time.
From: ttn@cs.tut.fi (Tero Nieminen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: DEC's alpha is "way fast" according to WSJournal
Date: 13 Nov 92 14:26:58
Organization: Tampere Univ. of Technology, Finland.
Distribution: world
	<1992Nov12.085150.8058@netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kaarne.cs.tut.fi
In-reply-to: abell@netcom.com's message of Thu, 12 Nov 1992 08:51:50 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.085150.8058@netcom.com> abell@netcom.com (Steven T. Abell) writes:

   2) Bus interfaces are usually designed such that a big ALU and a wide bus
      is useless in string operations, where alignment restrictions can't
      be applied;

   3) Portability constraints decrease the utility of a big ALU and a wide bus
      in struct operations, where alignment restrictions *are* applied.

You have to remember that theese new architectures a not very close to
old architectures like the Motorola 68040. They all have on-chip fast
cache and on the motherboard large secondary cache. The way they fetch
data from memory is through the cache, os the more traditional direct
memory addressing doesn't guite apply. More over, the chips are so much
fastee due to higher clock speeds and pipelined or superscalar
architecture with large number of registers, that they can easily slurp
all the 64 bits and then extract the interrresting portion of out of
that and then do the requested manipulation, still using a great deal
less time than any older architecture would allow. And having twice as
fast memory (due to 64-bit bus) isn't actually a hindrance either.

   Don't flame, just enlighten, please.

No flame thrown..
-- 
         Tero Nieminen                      DANGER!
         ttn@cs.tut.fi                   Computer Bytes!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: bwebster@pages.com (Bruce F. Webster)
Subject: Re: NeXT edu prices go UP!  AGAIN!
Reply-To: bwebster@pages.com
Organization: Banzai Research Institute
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 19:40:24 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.114035.13554@utstat.uucp> philip@utstat.uucp (Philip  
McDunnough) writes:
> 
> Microsoft writes software that can run on computers that are accessible 
> to a large proportion of people. This is not the case with NeXT. 

Ah, I see...486-based systems are out of everyone's reach and will remain so  
for the foreseeable future. ;-)  ..bruce..

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce F. Webster             |  I have seen the Altair live and die
CTO, Pages Software Inc      |  And software startups score on sorry score--
bwebster@pages.com           |  And millions made by men like Mitch Kapor.
#import <pages/disclaimer.h> |            -- Jeff Duntemann
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Subject: Re: DEC's alpha is "way fast" according to WSJournal
Reply-To: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:26:39 GMT

Charles William Swiger writes

> I don't see a major revolution occurring with the transition between
> 32-bit and 64-bit processors because the computer industry really
> hasn't max'ed out the possibilities of 32-bit machines yet.  (How
> many people do you know have complained that their machines can
> only address 4 gigs at a time? Anyone ever seen a machine with more
> than 4 gigs? Cray YMP's in your local supercomputing center, perhaps,
> but not machines intended for the consumer market.)

Actually, there are quite a few sites with large databases that
now have to be split among several files.  With 64 bits of address
space you can either fseek or memory-map that 20 Gigabyte database
out on disk, no problem.

String operations are getting more uncommon in the kinds of
applications the Alpha chip was intended - file server, database,
visualization, 3D, GUI kinds of things.  For these applications
the fast floating point and the ability to move raster or file data
around 64 bits at a time is a big win.

--
Scott Byer                             NeXTMail: byer@mv.us.adobe.com
Adobe Systems Incorporated               These are *my* opinions, and  
1585 Charleston Road, P.O. Box 7900        do not necessarily reflect
Mountain View, CA 94039-7900             the opinions of my employer.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: esky@marathon.cs.ucla.edu (Eskandar Ensafi)
Subject: To suck or not to suck, that is the question...
Reply-To: esky@marathon.cs.ucla.edu
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 22:24:50 GMT

Just what is NeXT going to do about better hardware?

Picture this: Los Angeles, Fall 1990
------------------------------------
Three NeXT reps visit UCLA.  I see the 25 MHz NeXTstations demos.  I see a  
four-page catalog of the NeXT product line.  NeXTdimension boasts JPEG  
compression.

Picture this: Later in 1991
---------------------------
NeXT announces that ND will not have hardware compression.  Steve Jobs tries to  
calm customers by saying that NeXT may endorse MPEG in NeXTWORLD magazine.   
Endorsement of a standard is very nice, but what about implementing it?

Now picture this: Fall 1992 and on
----------------------------------
Still no fast RISC machines, still no JPEG on ND, and MPEG isn't even around  
for public use.  ADB and the new Trinitron monitor are very good ideas.  The 33  
MHz Turbo machines were inevitable descendants of the original NeXTstations.   
And I have learned to live with the fact that NeXT has dropped OD support.

So where's the great hardware needed to run NeXTSTEP?  And what ever happened  
to the claim that the i860 "runs full-color PostScript", only to find out from  
the Winter 1992 issue of NeXTWORLD that the 68040 runs PS while the i860  
controls moving bits at a fast speed from the CPU to the ND's VRAM.  Some laser  
printers use the i960 to run PS (granted, they are not the same chip) so why  
doesn't NeXT do something similar with ND?

Then comes 3.0 and we expect RenderMan to run on the i860.  Same story, though  
I've heard claims about "parts" of the RenderMan server running on the i860 --  
just what parts would those be?

And then the rumors: NRW and NeXTbrick and a new NeXTbus that may obsolete the  
current cube's backplane and "the 88110 demise" ?@#%$@!

Though CISC processors make up the majority of today's desktop machines, it's  
probably going to be replaced by different technology , e.g. RISC.  Already,  
big-name UNIX workstations use RISC chips.  So Sun's SPARC isn't the best chip  
on earth.  So the 88110 may be hurt by PowerPC.  So the DEC Alpha generates too  
much heat.  Go with the flow -- it's not hurting Sun, and they abandoned the  
68K long ago!

Or maybe these guys at NeXT are just sadists -- pain looks great on other  
people, huh?  Personally, S&M doesn't belong in selling computers, thought the  
sexy black case does tend to provoke... well, never mind that...

The moral of the story: give us better hardware, or maybe they day we'll here  
"NeXT computers" are getting closer.  On a higher note, forntunately, the same  
can't be said about NeXTSTEP -- it truly is a great piece of software, but it  
needs a CPU better than the NeXTcube Turbo/NeXTdimension or any high-end 486  
system can offer.

- Eskandar Ensafi

-----------------
"I got nothing to say I ain't said before,
 I bled all I can, I won't bleed no more."
 (Sisters of Mercy)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: Joseph R. Grace <JGrace@TetraSoft.com>
Subject: Re: NeXT edu prices go UP!
Organization: TetraSoft International
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 23:56:30 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.165652.15458@u.washington.edu>  
basiji@stein.u.washington.edu (David Basiji) writes:
>  
>  [perceptive analysis of cost/benefits for entry level edu NeXTs deleted]
>  
>  It seems that NeXT Inc. is forsaking the small edu user for the large  
business
>  and government contracts.  $4400 for an entry level system is well beyond
>  the realm of the reasonable for students and small educational labs, given
>  today's market.  I used to recommend NeXTs to my fellow grad students until
>  the prices went up at our bookstore. 

Maybe I'm an over-optimist, but NeXT may be telling us not to buy these  
machines anymore --- since an entry-level priced NRW is on its way!

Over Reverse Psychologicalizing Again ( :-),

= Joe =
-- 
Joe Grace <JGrace@TetraSoft.com> (NeXTMail preferred.)
TetraSoft International   Business and Personal Productivity Tools for NeXTSTEP
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: jfr@RedBrick.COM ()
Subject: Re: NeXT edu prices go UP!  AGAIN!
Organization: Red Brick Systems, Los Gatos, CA
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:55:56 GMT

In article <0lp1dnj@rpi.edu> gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn) writes:
>spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (Stefano Pagiola) writes:
>
>We also still have the 8/250 greyscale (I refuse to say "mono", since it is  
>more than just black-and-white)...

 Well I hate to be pendantic, but it IS a monochrome system.  The word 
 monochrome comes from two roots, mono- (meaning "one") and chromos 
 (meaning "colored").  A monochromatic system is one with one color.  
 The luminance can vary but it still only has one color (black).  
 Thus a greyscale system is a monochromatic system.  A black-or-white
 system is a monochromatic system with only two levels of luminance
 (on and off).  A polychromatic system would need more than one color.
 Shades of grey do not count as additional colors.  

 BTW, for precedent, B&W TVs are called monochromatic and they display
 far more shades of grey than a NeXT.  Also, Kodak refers to B&W film
 or monochromatic film (or panchromatic film) which indeed handles 
 an almost infinite range of grey.  

 So the NeXT Station is indeed a monochrome system with a greyscale
 (multi-luminance level) display capability.

 :-)

 Jon



Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: tagreen@lothario.cica.indiana.edu (Todd A Green)
Subject: Re: 64-bit CPUs (was DEC's alpha is "way fast")
Organization: CICA - Center for Innovative Computer Applications
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 19:16:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.183026.29335@adobe.com> byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer) writes:
>> [strcpy not fast due to 8bit moves..]
>
>Pardon?  This is true only if you assume a brain dead strcpy
>algorithm.  An intelligent algorithm, which always grabs an aligned
>64-bit word, and uses masks for the beginning and ending can indeed

Well according to your theory, mach is brain dead.  Taken via otool -t
-v /mach.

_strcpy:
040026c0    linkw   a6,#0x0
040026c4    movel   a6@(0x8:w),a0
040026c8    movel   a6@(0xc:w),a1
040026cc    movel   a0,d0
040026ce    moveb   a1@+,a0@+			; looks like byte copies to me
040026d0    bne 0x40026ce:b
040026d2    unlk    a6
040026d4    rts

Add the appropriate number of smilies where you deem necessary.

Todd
--
NeXTmail:  tagreen@cica.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: werts@piggy.cecs.csulb.edu (Michael Werts)
Subject: Re: DEC's alpha is "way fast" according to WSJournal
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 03:50:41 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.174833.20588@adobe.com> byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)  
writes:
> Joseph R. Grace <JGrace@TetraSoft.com> writes
> 
> > The Wall Street Journal, Tuesday, November 10, 1992, page B4, John
> > R.  Wilke, staff reporter of The Wall Street Journal.
> 
> > Digital's Alpha chip is a technical departure from much of the rest
> > of the field, capable of swallowing 64 bits of data at once, or
> > four billion times as much data as the 32-bit chips championed by
         ^^^^^^^
> > competitors.
> 
> > ...
> > ...
> > ...
> 
> Huh? Dec's Alpha architecture has always been 64 bits (as far as
> I know).  And, yes, it does make for some wicked-fast I/O.
> 
> And 64 bits does give programs a big edge.  And they don't even
> have to be changed that much to use it.  (Well, not if they were
> designed right in the first place. ;-)
> 
> --
> Scott Byer                             NeXTMail: byer@mv.us.adobe.com
> Adobe Systems Incorporated               These are *my* opinions, and  
> 1585 Charleston Road, P.O. Box 7900        do not necessarily reflect
> Mountain View, CA 94039-7900             the opinions of my employer.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------

I suspect you missed the nine extra orders of magnitude. A glaring
error on the journalist's part.

--

MICHAEL WERTS -- werts@csulb.edu
Computer Engineering Computer Science
California State University Long Beach
From: ernest@pundit.cithep.caltech.edu (Ernest Prabhakar)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Really stupid Question: NS486 (WHEN??) - Q2 '92
Date: 12 Nov 1992 23:13:34 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: world
Reply-To: ernest@pundit.cithep.caltech.edu (Ernest Prabhakar)
NNTP-Posting-Host: pundit.cithep.caltech.edu

In article <1992Nov12.165309.6902@wam.umd.edu> rsrodger@next10csc.wam.umd.edu  
(Robert Stephen Rodgers) writes:
> 	So what I'm asking is--does anyone know the lastest word
> 	from NeXT itself?  
> 
> 	NS486:  When?
We just had a NeXT Product Fair, showing a functional Dell 450DE running '486.   
The full development environment was functioning, although with massive memory  
leaks.  No sound boards, no DOS/Windows emulation.

Our local NeXT SE said Q2 '93, or June-July 1993.  He claimed most ISV's had  
already gotten a copy, and the delay was basically so they could write a few  
hundred device drivers.

Following the rule of thumb that says multiply any announced date by 1.5 times  
the time before the delivery gets:
8 months x 1.5 = 12 months.
So, I'm putting my money on the END of 1993.  Hopefully NeXT will surprise us,  
but you never know.

Oh, by the way, they are taking about 3.1 in about four months.  Would be nice.

- Ernie P.

--
Ernest N. Prabhakar                  Caltech High Energy Physics
Member, League for Programming Freedom (league@prep.ai.mit.edu)
CaJUN President        NeXTMail:ernest@pundit.cithep.caltech.edu
"...and ourselves, your servants for Jesus sake." - II Cor 4:5b
#import <std/disclaimer.h>
From: Conrad_Geiger@NeXT.com (Conrad Geiger - Manager, International NeXT User Groups)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: NeXTSTEP Development Environment wins award in France
Date: 3 Nov 92 21:01:26 GMT
Reply-To: user_groups@next.com

NeXTSTEP Development Environment wins award in France

Bureautique SA, a French consulting company, organized a high level
3-day seminar, targeted at pointing out main development environment
changes for the future.  OOP appeared as the most important issue.
In order to prove the reality of OOP, specs for a customer
application (banking counter) were distributed to the exhibitors,
expecting onsite development for a general presentation on the last
day.

75 large accounts voted the best "ready to use" application...

NeXT was elected as the winner by over 80% of the attendees.  A
private object environment from ICL came in 2nd and DigiTalk's
SmallTalk V5 development received third place.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: rca@cs.brown.edu (Ronald C. Antony)
Subject: Encryption (was Re: Some things NeXT should do ASAP. (long))
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 08:38:52 GMT

Seeing that only the EXPORT of encryption technology is forbidden, I
wonder why US companies do not donate money to non-profit
organizations in a foreign country that are devoted to developing
encryption technology.
Then, they could license such technology (for free of course as a sign
of gratitude for the tax-deductible contribution) and IMPORT that
technology into the US while being free to distribute the same
software in the rest of the world, since it needs not be EXPORTED from
the US... :-)

So much for legal tricks. But then again there are other means to make
a company conform, such as buying no more hardware from them :-)

It becomes more interesting since as far as I know, it is not allowed
to exchange encrypted data with foreign countries. I now wonder how
SWIFT e.g. manages to do all the fund transfers encrypted and still
remain in the legal domain. Maybe they use DES and that might be
crackable to begin with...

DISCLAIMER: I do not know what I'm talking about, have a flu and it is
3:30am. This post is written only for entertainment value etc.

Ronald

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists
in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the
unreasonable man."   G.B. Shaw   |  rca@cs.brown.edu or antony@browncog.bitnet
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: jfr@RedBrick.COM ()
Subject: Re: NeXT edu prices go UP!  AGAIN!
Organization: Red Brick Systems, Los Gatos, CA
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 02:22:21 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.215032.10638@leland.Stanford.EDU> spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu writes:
>Yesterday I wrote:
>
>(*) what does this mean?  It means that PhotoCD is being ported to  
>SUN while Kodak asks 'who?' when asked about possible NeXT ports.

  You can just imagine the conversation:

  Press Critter: So when are you going to do the NeXT port?
  Kodak Critter: We're still not sure whether to do RS/6000 or H/P next.
  Press Critter: No, when are you going to port to NeXT?
  Kodak Critter: When?  We don't even know WHO yet!!! 

  (With gravest apologies to Abbott and Costello :-)

  Jon Rosen
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Subject: Re: The Next NextWorld Expo
Reply-To: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Organization: Metrosoft
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 07:04:50 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.150558.29272@news.nd.edu> stukas@mbolo.cc.nd.edu (Jim  
Stukas) writes:
> In article <1992Nov5.112156.4640@prim> dave@prim.demon.co.uk (Dave  
Griffiths)  
> writes:
> > In article <1d9knqINN6be@gap.caltech.edu>  
ernest@pundit.cithep.caltech.edu  
> (Ernest Prabhakar) writes:
> > >
> > >True, San Fran is not easy for Europeans to get to.
> >  
> > But worth it, IMO. Leaving snow-bound Munich to lie on the beach in
> > California in January...
>  ... rest of post deleted ...
> 
> Not that it makes a difference to most folks planning to go, but don't  
bother  
> bringing your bathing suit to S.F. in January.
> 
> Well, maybe if you plan on staying in a hotel with a pool. :-)
> 

Make that an indoor or well-heated pool.

Gordon
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Van Huizen           vox: 619.488.9411  fax: 619.488.3045
Metrosoft                   gvh@metrosoft.com [NeXTmail welcome]
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: ricardo@chuy (Ricardo Parada)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: 486 vs NeXTstation - pros and cons??
Date: 5 Nov 92 23:43:27 GMT
Organization: Pencom Software

In article <1d9f64INN8cu@crcnis1.unl.edu> jaffe@hoss.unl.edu (David Jaffe)  
writes:
> Could someone please comment on the pros and cons of getting a
> NeXTstation (turbo) vs. getting a 486 and the "NeXT operating system"?
> Does Mathematica come with the latter "package"?
> 
> David Jaffe (jaffe@hoss.unl.edu)
> University of Nebraska - Lincoln

486 PC are can be recycled (i.e. they can be used for other operating  
systems not only NS 486).  They run (or will run) most OS: MS-DOS, OS/2,  
NT, NS 486, Destiny, Solaris, SCO, etc.

When it comes to NS, MOST or maybe I should say SOME 486 PCs will be  
upgradable to color apparently and you can have a wider choice of hardware  
(i.e. Token Ring instead of Ethernet network interface cards).  You also  
get to choose which computer display you get (ViewSonic, or whatever).

You can also have multiple Operating Systems in your Hard Disk and pick  
the one you want to load when you start your computer.

--
+ Ricardo J. Parada
From: rhino@r2d2.eeap.cwru.edu (Rhino Project)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: NeXT:The Dream no longer....
Date: 5 Nov 1992 22:44:19 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve Univ. Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: nomad.eeap.cwru.edu

I have wanted a NeXT since they first came out. I have every copy
of NeXTWorld and all sorts of NeXT stuff in my room. I'm graduating
from high school this year and I'm getting a graduation present. I
will choose a computer b/c I sold my IIci (before they cut prices
by 1500 dollars) so I  always planned to get something from NeXT.
Well, I'm getting nervous. I love NeXTSTEP (from what I have used
of it) and I love NeXT people but with educational price increases
and nothing released on ports or new machines, I'm forced to start
thinking about what I want.

Sun and SGI make great hardware but can we say "I don't use my 
computer because I hate to use the operating system even though
the hardware does thirty million MFLOPS,SPECMARKS,MIPS" (throw
HP's PA-RISC chips in there too). Now if NeXT gave a date when
the new hardware should be expected like 1st, 2nd, 3rd quater 
(after my children graduate from college in 2020?), everyone
could stop wondering about when and just let time fly by.

With regards to ports, they need to start coughing up some info.
I know alot of people here at Case that would love to know what
platform they could get NeXTSTEP to run on.

Thus, Steve (Jobs)...What's going on? I understand that you can't
run a business by just the educational community but you can run a
business by catering to the community. It is the NeXT community (not
the board room) that makes NeXTSTEP really so great not just a neat
piece of software lying about a XEROX or AT&T. I know you are a man
of ideas and visions, thus let people bask in their wonderfullness
not have to wait every two years. If I'm way off, I'm prepared for
the flame war with my flame suit.

                 The faithful NeXT nobody,
                         Carlin

-- 
Carlin E. Wiegner              | rhino@eeap.cwru.edu
Triumvirate Industries, Inc.   | cew6@po.cwru.edu
From: carsten@pizza.fb10.tu-berlin.de (Carsten Schultz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXT's binaries need a diet, or the solution to NeXT's multiprocessor problem.
Date: 11 Nov 1992 15:08:11 GMT
Organization: ZRZ/TU-Berlin
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carsten@pizza.fb10.tu-berlin.de (Carsten Schultz)
NNTP-Posting-Host: pizza.fb10.tu-berlin.de

In article <Nov.11.01.37.01.1992.26014@gandalf.rutgers.edu>  
szatrows@gandalf.rutgers.edu (John Kheit) writes:
.. When
> you double click on the app for the first time the machine figures out
> what CPU is being used and deletes all of the unecessary binaries in
> the wrapper.

Well this might be a nice option, but please do not forget that there  
might be networks with different CPUed (what a word) computers.

Carsten
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy