From: irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine)
Subject: Re: DOES AMERICA SAY YES TO JAPAN? - Off track!!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:53:55 GMT

In article <23078@venera.isi.edu> jlacoss@paddington.isi.edu (Jeff LaCoss) writes:
>> dhesi@cirrus.com (Rahul Dhesi) writes:
>>In <1992Dec15.214210.19181@oakhill.sps.mot.com>
>>rvkl60@aus18a25.sps.mot.com (Tom Mathes) writes:
>>
>>>Let's get this discussion back on the REAL message of the
>>>original post: the Japanese coordinated attack on industry
>>                   ^alleged
>
> You aren't watching "Frontline" on PBS. Or reading any newspaper
>business section. "Alleged" is quite incorrect.  "Proved" is closer to
>the mark.
>
> As PBS has shown in reruns over the last few nights, the Japanese
>used illegal trade practices to capture the market and pay for the
>production-engineering of their products. Production engineering costs
>a LOT.
>
> THEIR government allowed THEIR industries to place an economic burden
>on THEIR consumers to subsidize predatory pricing, or "dumping."
>People in the US (and hence most of the chicken-shits in government)
>would never stand for being screwed so business could wax fat. Dumping
>is illegal in the US. US courts have ruled that TVs, DRAMs, and VCRs
>have been dumped in order to kill US competition.

In 1955, the Regency Company [never heard of them, did you?] INVENTED
the pocket transistor radio, it took a couple of years to come to
market [remarkably quick for the times].  Sony came along and COPIED
the design EXACTLY [well they changed the cover and put their name on it...]
then preceeded to undersell the Regency.  I don't need to tell you 
who drove whom out of buisiness.  Suits were brought to court, but 
Regency was basically told to take it on the chin by the government,
who refused to act due to "geopolitical interests."

Japan has been having pretty much a free ride up to the present, with
virtually unlimited access to our markets, with freedom of action that 
would make any of our CEOs turn green with envy.

>
>>Do you know when the US will get back on track?  When it stops blaming
>>Japan.
>
> YOHO!
> There IS something to be said for the statement about "blaming."
> What's needed is to stop the bitching, pull in the collective belt,
>get down to competing on a LEVEL FIELD, and kick 'em in the ass.

Yeah, why blame Japan for mounting a concerted effort to put our
buisinesses out of buisiness, when they have.  Makes no sense.
But if your point was stop the continued finger pointing, and
ACT [punitive tariffs, treating Japan like they treat foreign
countries, actually putting teeth into Super 301 and such] then
I agree.
>
>>The US owes Japan a lot.  Why do Americans buy Japanese products?
>
> We helped them rebuild after the war, we've been their defense for
>nearly 50 years, we've funded their rise to domination of the world
>electronics market. Nope, the US doesn't owe Japan jack-shit.
>
> Americans probably buy most Japanese products because there no longer
>is any choice. TV? VCR? CD? STEREO? Are there any of these made in the
>US?
>  No.

RCA TVs 19" and larger are designed and made in the US.

>Panasonic was pretty cheap, but died fast.  The RCA was the cheapest;
>I don't hold out much hope. Maybe I'm just lucky.

RCA is the cheapest because that is how they can survive because of the
market brainwashing of a lot of the US [the US can't make electronics
or anything else cheaply or with quality].  

Seriously, if someone wants to buy American, RCA will do the job [and
they *still* make a great TV].

>
> I had a $350 Sony CD with just 70-80 hours on it over a couple years
>- it croaked. No suprise that I don't buy Sony any more.

Sony can make only a few things well:  Shortwave Sets, Walkmen, and
the occational TV [27" or larger only].

> TVs et. al. are designed to be cheap to manufacture, cheap to sell,
>and reliable enough to get a couple years beyond warranty so people
>can't bitch. (Cars are more of the same.)

Yeah, its the tactic for churning volume in a saturated market.

> These things are NOT cheap to fix. Is this substantial progress for
>consumers?

No, not at all.  If they were DESIGNED to fix, then they wouldn't be
so expensive to do so.  Also the company has a vested interest in
making the MTBF only 5 years or so.

>
>>in the US have to spend less to buy the same thing, or they can spend
>>the same and get better quality.  This means that consumers in the US

Ah, but now that a virtual monopoly exists in Consumer electronics for
Japanese firms, watch how those prices creep up slightly ahead of
inflation [or a favorite Japanese tactic, introduce new designs -
add a feature and do a different button layout - and double the price]
{this tactic is used in Japan to hide the inflation there}



>>have more money to invest, and they can invest more in industry in
>>their own country.  The low price of Japanese products HELPS consumers
>>in the US spend less and save and invest more.

BZZT! WRONG! Take the cigar away!!  The low prices HELPS drive [or
for a lot of manufacturers HELPED drive :( ] American manufacturers
out of buisiness because those low prices are designed with a razor
margin or at a loss specifically to DRIVE AMERICANS OUT OF BUISINESS.
The consequence is that there are less jobs, and less $$ in the
economy - so i seriously doubt that as a whole we are a richer people
for it.

-- 
+-------------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------+
| Brent L. Irvine         | For a mere $50 these personal  | I will be gone: |
| irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu | opinions can also be yours!    | 20 Dec - 4 Jan  |
+-------------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan