From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Forgeries, he is not just a client, he is the president
Date: 17 Nov 1992 11:56:34 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

> +>I actually disagree. 90% of Turks that I know have expressed ridicule
> +>for Argic postings, or at least some annoyance that it was too much.  
> +>But, there really seems to be nothing to do, how do you stop a forger?
> +>The mail is obviously forged, and there seems to be no way to stop a
> +>determined hacker from getting to USENET and flooding. 
>  
>         The postings are not true forgeries.  They are coming in from 
> a particular uucp connection via uunet.  The owner of that uucp connection
> claims to have a news-only link to zuma.uucp and further claims that
> while there is a mail path to zuma, he will not give it out.
> The Uucp connection appears in the uucp maps, zuma does not.

I do not agree. The idea of a forgery is to hide one's own identity. 
Whether this is done by using the chickensuit (Argic@zuma), thru
an over-protective mail/news feed that sends stupid mail messages to
root (like they care, Ahmet), whether you ask a friend to post
messages for you thru the ucbvax gateway while your newsfeed has been
dead for a year, it is a FORGERY clear and SIMPLE. Forgery is any 
effort to hide one's identity in such a manner as to not be held
accountable for one's actions.

Using one's own identity is the only way to be held accountable on
the net. That is, if one decides to make a totall ass out of himself,
the rest of the world knows that. If we get to the point that we
all hide our identities thru any of the means I described above (or
more), we might as well all start using 14-year old style "Handles"
found on pirate BBS's. 

Let me give you another example. My own machine is on the net. I
could modify the path so that all I show is st486.UUCP and no
path to it. If st486 is not registered with any domain server, I have
a setup virtually identical to Mutlu as I can post to my heart's
extent and laugh at the bouncing messages as UUNET tells the
world it's never heard of me. Is this forgery? You bet it is.

>         The multu-messages were forgeries in the classic sense, but
> the Argic material cannot be called a forgery.  (The legality of the
> setup was discussed within news.admin at one point with the general
> consensus being that everything was net-legal).

Are you kidding? Not that we don't know that Argic is Mutlu, mind you.
See my definition of "forgery" posted above.  I'll agree on the net
legality though. He pays the bill (I wonder how) to UUNET, he posts.

A bit of research turned out that Hasan B-) Mutlu has posted under
these names over the last couple of years:

hbm@ddsw1.dell.com (Hasan B. Mutlu)	 (May 1 92)
han@sarp.aic.com (hasan.b.mutlu)	(Oct 30 91) <---
han@anatolia.mn.org (Hasan B. Mutlu)	(Jul 12 92)
han@sarp.utaaic.com (hasan.b.mutlu)	(Apr 12 92) <---
han@dho.nesve.org (hasan.b.mutlu)	(Oct 30 91)
han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu) (Sep 1 92)
hbm@ddsw1.mcs.com (Hasan B. Mutlu)	(Aug 21 92)

The only references to Serdar Argic are (of course) after Sep-01 1992,
coinciding with the dissapearance and ressurection a few weeks later
(after Sep-01 1992) of HBM.

sera%zuma@anatolia.mn.org (Serdar Argic) (Oct 1 92)
sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)	        (Nov 12 92)

Also notice the sarp.aic.com and sarp.utaaic.com.  Nobody has EVER
seen articles coming out of either sarp.aic.com and sarp.utaaic.com
from anyone else except Hasan and Nesve. I asked WAIS for anybody from
these two sites and nothing has ever come thru them except:

nesve@sarp.aic.com (nesve)	        (Oct 30 91)
han@dho.nesve.org (hasan.b.mutlu)	(Oct 30 91)

Any insights? Notice that both accounts were used LAST on the same day,
and nobody has heard of these two sites since. No record of Mr. Nesve
has also been found anywhere else. 

(Oh, Hasan, do you have any dirt on Greeks regarding the Island of Zakynthos?
It did have a sizeable Jewish community before WW2, and many are still there).

Spiros
--
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    "I don't want to make money,
c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com                 I just want to read News..."