HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
X-Prolog:     Office of Development and Alumni Affairs, LIB 654
X-Prolog:     University of South Florida, Tampa, Florida 33620
X-Acknowledge-To: <DECABAA@CFRVM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 10:14:24 GMT
Comments:     Converted from OfficeVision to RFC822 by PUMP V2.2X
From:         "Debra A. Berkeley (813) 974-2651" <DECABAA@CFRVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: National Identity

Zahir: Reading your reply to Monica's statement brought to mind a story my
aunt once told me. She has being living in England for many years. She once
told me about the Asians who attended school with her children. She said that
the Asian kids are so pressured by their parents to succeed that many of them
commit suicide before they ever graduate. One story in particular, was when an
Asian boy, who was in a class w/ one of her girls jumped from the fith or
sixth story of the school building and dropped to his death. All this because
he had flunked an exam and could not bring himself to tell his parents or else
they would punish him by making him study harder over a consistant period of
time. I respect parents who want nothing but the best for their children in
terms of education, successful careers, and so forth. However, children need
to be children also. There is more to life than studying. One should not be
driven to suicide in order to accomplish their life goals. There is nothing to
gain in killing oneself before enjoying the 'fruits of one's labor'.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: XCULT-L@PSUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"XCULT-L@PSUVM.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 11:03:34 -0400
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Americans, etc

Gretchen, Patrick....

I think Americans do have an identity peculiarly their own ...they
have their own value system and way of thinking that is quite unique
and quite common across races...

I think the Black AMERICAN is closer to the whites than he hi to
Africans in values, behaviour and culture....

Ofcourse there are a lot of people in the U.S. who are Americans by birth
and in the legal sense but they have not assimiliated and thus from a
value/culture point of view they are not Americans....and then there are
sub cultures too....

zahir
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 12:38:41 CDT
From:         Monica <IC22@UNTVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: National Identity

Zabir:
You are right and it is great to know that it is acceptable to fail.  However,
does that then mean that people have a tendency to take it easy on themselves.
Do people push themselves as hard?  Perhaps another thing to consider is
whether we can afford to take such an attitude all the time.  For example,
environmental issues.  Are these a luxury that can be considered only in
developed countries?  Can developing countries be environmentally conscious
and still survive?  If you take the livelihood away from people who exist
at the subsistence level, can you substitute another form of obtaining a
living?  We do not have social welfare in Malaysia; we do have some kind of
social health services.  People more or less have to depend on themselves for
their income.  There is no unemployment benefits or social security.
Monica
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: XCULT-L@PSUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"XCULT-L@PSUVM.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 09:17:23 -0400
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Voting

Deborah,

So you do not vote too...but might this Fall ...  I would not fall for
the media talk that Bill Clinton has a chance.......very little if any.
From a sports nut who has watched Media build up of Super Bowls and
Tyson Fights....  They hype it up to make us think thee challenger has
a chance and usually its a one sided affair.

In any case, I think the only real difference is that republicans make
the "macho types" feel good because republicans act tough and tend to beat
up small countries....and the democrats make the "sensitive types" feel good
because they talk about human rights and make more speeches on it and the
environment....  Whatever action actually takes place has more to do with
the corporations and the PACS and what they want....

zahir
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1992 10:23:57 G+3
From:         CCA3203@SAKAAU03.BITNET

 FROM     Hashim Al-attas
 SUBJECT  For whom is going to vote
 DATE     20/08/92




  I just want to remind him, whom is going to vote. To bring memory back
  to time of BUSH 1st election several years a go.
  He, The president was promising U.S. people that taxs will not increase
  but, He did not pay his promise & did increase taxs. Isn't true what i
  am saying,  So try to think deeply when you are welling to vote for ei-
  ther one. Wish U.S. citizins full success, Hope new president would ap-
  ply your aims, You citizins of the united states ofAM.



  Hashim
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 10:43:53 EDT
From:         Mary Ellen Ugactz-Fernandez <ugactz@CUNIXF.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Americans, etc

Here, here. I second MGARBER's message that some of these definitions
of what Americans are like are quite narrow.  Unfortunately, opinions
are formed in terms of how mass media portray Americans as well as
other nationals. And unfortuately, persons base their beliefs about
other nationals while having limited contact with a variety, in
conjunction with a closed mind to some extent. As an American, I am
defined by my experience. We are not all spoiled, materialistic,
hard-nosed, or uncultured. To debate about what Americans are like,
think, or what this American is defined as is, in my opinion, trying to
find a definition for something that is not defineable. Shall we define
what it is to be English, Spanish, German - if all we are going to do
is throw out stereotypes or our own prejudices, because of our lack of
experience?  We should assume instead that all people have common
ground and then acknowledge that in every group you have your snobs or
your airheads...

anyway, I have to run. work calls.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:43:58 EST
Comments:     Resent-From: <DMARTIN@WCU>
Comments:     Originally-From: Deborah Martin
From:         DMARTIN@WCU.BITNET
Subject:      Voting

 Zahir,
      I'm with you, my friend.  I have been the recipient of much criticism
 because I have never voted and, in fact, I am not registered to vote.  It is
 not that I don't want to vote, I would like very much to take part in the
 voting process.  In fact, I am seriously considering voting this election,
 however, what are my options?  I don't think that Bush should stay in office
 any longer and although I like Clinton, there are some fundamental issues that
 I differ with him and I don't know that I could vote for him with a clear
 conscience.  So what options does that leave me?

 >Its not my Gov't...and yes, I stopped voting.....  If it was the peoples
 >government, we would have national health insurance, gun control, no
 >PAC's such as the AMA, the NRA and so on....

 YES, for national health insurance.  YES, for gun control.  YES, for no
 PAC's.  While I hadn't considered it before, perhaps I can say with
 Gretchen that I am at least a little bit socialist.

 Deborah
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: XCULT-L@PSUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"XCULT-L@PSUVM.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 09:55:45 -0400
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: [Mary Ellen Ugactz-Fernandez <ugactz@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>:
              US]

Emmy,

I think you miss the point.  I made the comments about our leaders being
the best looking, male, white  and so on.....because of our system and
the inordinate role of the media and TV in our elections....  Be it
musicians (the succesful ones have hair, no glasses or big bellies) or
politicians....  To get elected one has to get on TV, to get on TV lots
of times, one has to raise lots of money, to get lots of money one has to
sell their conscience.....

It is conceited of those who vote to think...that they are more patriotic
or that they affect change.....  they are legitimizing a crooked system by
participating in it.....  regardless of what you think, there is only
one party in the U.S. with two branches....

Among all the democracies in the world, The U.S. has the lowest voter turnout..
this is a fact.  Currently, its close to about 50%....  When more people
realize that their vote cannot make a real difference and the vote count
goes down to where we cannot claim to be a gov't of the people, we might
really begin to have the strength to do it.... we are getting close as
you can tell from how many people were ready to do anything for Ross Perot...

zahir
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA
X-Acknowledge-To: <CCJN@EMUVM1>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:56:01 EDT
From:         Joyce Neu <CCJN@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      SORRY!

My apologies--I think that for the umpteenth time since I've been on
this most inelegant EMUVM1 system that rather than reply to 1 person
as intended, I replied to the whole list.  So sorry, and thanks for
your patience.  Have I said anything terribly embarrassing yet that's
gone out to 3,000 people?  Wait long enough, and I probably will.
Color this face red.

Yours in e-mail doldrums,
Joyce
From: BELLM3084@BESTSD.SDSU.EDU (AUGUSTINE F. DURAN)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: RE: Hola Amigos
Date: 21 Aug 92 00:51:13 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"XCULT-L%PSUVM.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU"
X-To:         XCULT-L%PSUVM.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU

Hola Maria Elena,
Espero que estes bien.  Te mando saludos de Montebello, California.  Naci en
el Este de Los Angeles, pero mis padres nacieron en Mexico.  Despensa pero
tengo que ir a cumplir un negocio, despues te escribo.
Gus Duran.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Tue, 11 Aug 1992 19:32:23 EST
From:         Deborah Martin <DMARTIN@WCU.BITNET>
Subject:      Americans

 Zahir,
      I really enjoyed your letter about what it means to you to be American.
 On a personal level, I definitely place emphasis on the aspects that you
 mentioned differently.  I can, however, see how that the typical American
 might be in accord with what you have said.  I can especially relate to your
 comments in the next to last paragraph regarding "Stability".  When I look
 at my Indian roommate and see what she has done with her life, it obvious
 that she falls into the pattern that you talk about.  She got her teaching
 degree in India, taught for about 10 years, started her masters program in
 India, came to the US, has completed 2 graduate degrees, one in biology, the
 other in education, and she is now immigrating to Canada where a brother is.
 She is 35 years old and all she has done is work and school.  She is willing
 to consider marriage now but confessed to me that she fears she will not
 have the opportunity to have children now at her age.  This whole plan was
 done in accordance to what her mother set out for her to do.  On the other
 hand, Nikos rebelled against what his family wanted him to major in.  With
 only one semester to graduate with a bachelors in computer science, he
 changed majors to what he wanted to do, Political Science - International
 Relations.  His reward for his independence, his uncle withdrew the
 financial support to finish school.

      Finally, in reference to your last statement about Americans not being
 willing to 'settle' for anything less than the best.  I think that this is
 part of America's problem.  Americans sometimes don't want to settle for
 anything less than the best and aren't willing to put forth the effort to
 attain the best.  They think that it is their 'right' to have the best and
 that it should automatically be theirs.

 Deborah
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:33:25 EST
From:         Deborah Martin <DMARTIN@WCU.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: SOMALIA/BOSNIA

 Too bad Somalia doesn't have oil like Kuwait.

 Deborah
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:55:08 CDT
From:         "Patrick Christian" <AEZPATR@UICVMC.BITNET>
Subject:      Americans, etc

 Deborah, Gretchen, (whomever else that is interested)

 I will preface this by saying that this is my own opinions, and I will not
 deliberately attempt to say that I am the "ideal" American.  I'm just a man,
 nothing more.

 Gretchen,

 You are a Socalist, very well.  I am not and the reason most likely relates to
 my agrarian upbringing.  I was raised in a region that believed that nothing
 good came from a government council chamber.  As an example, about 10 years
 ago local government wanted to run piped water to my home area.  Every home
 in that area used wells, cisterns, or a combination of both.

 To make a long story short, the proposal was sumarily rejected.  My uncle was
 one of those in the opposition, and their basic argument was that they did not
 want to be dependant on the government was as basic a need as water.

 I am just a man.  I call myself American because I have American citizenship
 and because I have no ties to any other countries.  I guess it's as simple as
 that!
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"XCULT-L%PSUVM.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 12:26:00 -0700
From:         MGARBER@DHVX20.CSUDH.EDU
Subject:      Re: Voting
X-To:         XCULT-L%PSUVM.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU

Why isnt' abortion a suitable topic. Its a hot international issue. I was having
 dinner with some Chniese officials the other night, and they expressed outrage
 at AMericans who oppose abortion, calling them hypocritical.
From: AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: Re: Cultural differences
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:41:04 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: XCULT-L@PSUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"XCULT-L@PSUVM.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Probal,

Thanks for defending the East..... I am originally from the EAST and
prefer the other way.....Individual rights over societal rights..etc.

But I agree with you in one way....  I also do not like those who have to
put down another culture to feel good about their own....

I have tried to point out differences between cultures without indicating
that one is preferable over the other....  I don't know that we actually
consciously choose our culture(s), only defend them.... I did not
choose to become an American (except in the legal sense), only found out
that I had become one and most of my decisions fit into the pattern
of an American......

Zahir

PS.  While you point out that one should not stereotype, I am afraid you have
stereotyped Americans with the remark implying Americans do not have
anyone to share with.....
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"XCULT-L%PSUVM.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:31:10 -0700
From:         MGARBER@DHVX20.CSUDH.EDU
Subject:      RE: SOMALIA/BOSNIA
X-To:         XCULT-L%PSUVM.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU

At DH I have a Human Rights Resources Center. What does the Carter Center do
 which can help us or connect with us.? Would J. Carter like to come speak at DH
 to help the center, e.g. when he is in town, since we have no$$. Marilyn
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 09:16:00 CDT
From:         Daniel Henry <DHENRY@NNOMED.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: SOMALIA/BOSNIA

Joyce, good to hear from you again...
It was never an interruption, please keep the list as informed as you
can...   it's so hard to get info on what's going on in places like
Somalia when it's so very important not to forget that real people
are suffering...   in many cases because their story is not told
loudly enough.

Thanks again!
Dan Henry               __o
DHENRY@NNOMED         _ \<,_
LSU Medical Center   (_)/ (_)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1992 15:37:00 -0400
From:         x91ahmed4@GW.WMICH.EDU
Subject:      Re: CULTURE AND VOTING

Election are very important and it decides the destiny of nations...
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:19:06 EST
Comments:     Resent-From: <DMARTIN@WCU>
Comments:     Originally-From: Deborah Martin
From:         DMARTIN@WCU.BITNET
Subject:      British vs American Humor

 Someone made a request for a discussion on humor, well, how's this for a start.

 I have found from experience that British and American humor is very different.
 While in Scotland, I found myself watching some American sitcoms and laughing
 while the Scots I was staying with looked at me in befuddlement.  I found
 myself having to trying to explain the humor to them.  On the other hand, I
 have also found myself watching British sitcoms here and laughing while
 fellow Americans simply shake their heads in wonder.  I also had the unique
 experience of trying to explain some Far Side cartoons to some Scots.  They
 thought that I had completely taken leave of my senses.

 Deborah
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 14:48:00 CDT
From:         "Phil Gerdes K-State Univ." <PHILG@KSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      re: Somalia/Bosnia

From:    AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET >
>First, Bad Amerikan Gov't is not the same as Bad American people because
>the gov't is not for the people, by the people etc..

Bad American Gov't doesn't equal bad Americans?  I suppose the people
in government are not Americans.  We import government people from
a land that raises people that run governments?  Or maybe those
government people go to a special school to run a government?

>I am an American and do love Americans.....The Gov't is not mine and
>its bad!
The Gov't is not yours!  Does that mean you didn't vote?  What do you
mean the Gov't isn't yours?  Are you special or something?

>Second, The UN IS THE US....because NOTHING can pass in the UN without
>American approval (and everything can pass regardless of the objections
>of anyone of 98% of the countries in the UN).

Yea, right.  The UN happens to be located in NYC.  The US is a permanate
member of the security council along with 5 other countries.  This makes
the UN a branch of the US Gov't?

>Third, I think if the American Gov't was honest enough to say that we
>intervene WHEREVER WE PLEASE AND OUR BASIS OF INTERVENTION IS OUR
>ECONOMIC (WHEN i SAY OUR IT MEANS OUR CORPORATE INTERESTS) INTERESTS
>then they may not be liked but they will be respected.  As it is,
>Amerika (the K is for gov't) is criticized because it supports
>dictators while claiming they want to democracize the world, they claim
>they want to protect human rights while they look the other way when it
>occurs in countries that are subservient to them ....  If human rights
>and not economics were the issue, Somalia and Bosnia would come before
>Kuwait....

One of the basis for intervention is economic.  You bet ya.  Is that a
problem?  An economic reason is a very good reason.  There is usually
more than one reason for doing something, Iam sorry you think your
reason to kill people is not the highest priority.

Kuwait asked for help and the UN helped them.  Bosnia is asking for
help and they are being helped, Bosnia not existing until recently
could have been a reason for slow help.  It costs money to help, who
pays for this help?  Oh, there is a money tree and the UN just
takes it from the tree.

   Do you want the US to just decide who needs help and then
help them?  Once the US has been asked for help they should help
everyone the same?  You think it's OK for the US to interfer with
another country if the US thinks human rights are being violated?

You don't see a difference between one country invading another
country and a civil war?

-Phil---------------------PHILG@KSUVM------------------------------------
Life is too confusing for novices; we should hire professionals
to do it for us.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Tschuess! Sayounara! Tchau! Ahoj! Tot Ziens! Ciao! Shalom! Adios!
Hoscakal! Dovidjane! Kwaheri! Zhai jian! Ahnnyung! Sampai Jumpa Lagi!
Aloha! Farvel! Sawaddee! Naegemist! Vi ses igen! Naekemiin! Kwa Heri!
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via:        UK.AC.NOTT.DIR; 21 AUG 92 11:21:57 BST
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 11:20:48 BST
From:         "S.H.Selmanoglu" <eexshs@UNICORN.NOTT.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: New Posters??? (was Re: Voting)

>In article <CMM.0.90.2.714184933.ugactz@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>
>ugactz@CUNIXF.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mary Ellen Ugactz-Fernandez) writes:
>>Deborah:
>>
>> [most of article deleted]
>>
>>Is anyone else out there besides the seven or eight of us? (smile_)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>I'd like to hear some new questions.
>>
>Okay, I'll bite.  I've never posted here before.  I'm not what you would call
>a Cultural "expert", but I have been around ( Belgium, Germany, Denmark, UK,
>and lastly Turkey)
>
>While Turkey was probably the hardest to adjust culturally to, it was also the
>most interesting for me. ( With the possible exception of those ceramic "hole
>in the ground" toilets.)
>
  Do you mind if I ask you the reson, Why the Turkiye was the hardest to adjust
culturally.  I am asking this, because I would like to move the cultural
differance of the countries and their habitans


>While there, I spent a lot of time at the TAA. (Turkish-American Association)
>Does anybody know if this exists in the U.S. ? I was unable to locate one in
>the phone book.

  With the best of my knowladge TAA was found by the Americans, who leaves in
Turkiye.  So that it might not have any branch in USA.

>
>Thanks,
>
>kschwab@wrdis01.af.mil
>
>Kerry R. Schwab
>Warner Robins GA (USA)
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sehsuvar H. Selmanoglu

Department of Electrical Engineering |  Internet : EEXSHS@unicorn.nott.ac.uk
University of Nottingham             |  Bitnet   : EEXSHS@uk.ac.nott.vme
University Park                      |  Tel      : +44 (602) 484848 ext. 2282
Nottingham, NG7 2RD, England         |  Fax      : +44 (602) 412617
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU