HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home)
Subject: Re: Parents, Spouses, Children (was: Re: PAF tricks)
Organization: CompuData Inc.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:52:25 GMT

ttw@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (thomas.t.wetmore..iv) writes:

>1. The biological, genetic relationship of parent to child is the
>preeminent relationship in genealogical research.

>2. The relationship of two people, of opposite sex, in or out of
>wedlock, who do the kinds of things that may result in a relationship
>of the first kind, is the next most important relationship.

>3. These two relationships account for such a high percentage of all
>relationships required by genealogical research, that they must be
>handled completely and intrinsically by your software system.

As another crusty fart, I must agree with Tom. I have no misconceptions about 
the veracity of the gene pool flowing as it might look on paper. Yet, this is 
all we have to go by unless we start looking for century old gravesites, start
exumation procedures and do genetic testing.  In more cases than not we would
be on target.  As our own mothers (and wives) were more than likely to have
had their children by their husbands, we must assume the same as we go back in 
time. Just because there might have been exceptions to the rule does not mean 
we should simply throw out the rules.

I don't know much about Mendel and all that genetic stuff but I can see in my 
own extended family that there are physical similarities that go back a ways 
to some common ancestor. He may be one of 16 but again and again their might 
be an extremely tall person who inherited that structure from an ancestor. 
Other things are also inherited and we may not even know about them.

In essence then, I would say that we should keep genealogy honest and at least 
attempt to trace our way back as best we can. Naturally other people who had 
nothing to do with us genetically can be included but they should stay on the 
periphery in family histories within which genealogy should be the main part.


>7.  And finally, mea culpa, as my own software system does not yet provide
>what I believe to be adequate or even required flexibility for this
>stuff.

There needs to be a way of showing the sidelines, the adoptive parents. 
Obviously they helped create the person we are tracking in ways having to do 
with culture and behavior which could overwhelm any genetic influence. But 
they need to be a branch off the main node. Charts and such should show them 
but I don't see much sense in tracking them back except for the fun of the 
exercise.

Sometimes we might forget that this is mainly fun to do. Nothing earthshaking 
will ever come of it. Our ancestors would not really know us as we would not 
know them, but we wish to know a little more about them anyway - for the fun 
of it.

fred


-- 
W. Fred Rump 	office:	   fred@COMPU.COM     'mans feet have grown/so big 
26 Warren St.   home: fred@icdi10.compu.com  that he/forgets his littleness'
Beverly, NJ. 08010                          		Don Marquis 
609-386-6846    bang:uunet!cdin-1!icdi10!fr   
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 14:12:31 -0800
Reply-To:     Frieda Davison <fdavison@SFSUVAX1.SFSU.EDU>
From:         Frieda Davison <fdavison@SFSUVAX1.SFSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: libraries
Comments: To: Bob Wier <rrw@sunset.cse.nau.edu>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list ROOTS-L <ROOTS-L@vm1.nodak.edu>

On Mon, 21 Dec 1992, Bob Wier wrote:

>  While on the subject, I have found some libraries to be distrubingly
>  insular and self - centered.  The most recent example is our library
>  here at the University.
>
>  I could NOT get the NAU library to loan me a glass plate.  I told 'em
>  it didn't have to be historically significant, it could even be
>  broken...I just needed an example of the technology.  I cajoled them
>  for a week, even took over samples of what had already been done.
>  No soap -

Again, ask the right question.  I suggest you don't ask "who makes the
rules".  Ask who is in charge -- in this case "of special collections".
If that was the person you were talking to, ask for the University
Librarian.  OR do you have a "library liaison" to your academic department?
That is usually another good avenue.  You may have been talking to student
workers and/or library staff and library assistants.  While the library
tends to run because of these people, many have been trained in the
"McDonald's Programmed method of response".  They may have been told "its
against the rules and truly don't know who made the rules.

On your personal quest, Bob, I suggest that you contact Linda Brandt.
She is the new (as of last semester) Head of Acquisitions at NAU and yes,
you can tell her that I was the one that sent you to her.  She used to work
for me here at SFSU.  While she may not be able to change the rules or
even tell you who made them, she is a good sounding board, listens well,
and tries to help faculty in many different endeavors.  If nothing more,
she will commiserate with you which sometimes is what one needs the MOST!


Frieda Davison
San Francisco State University
Newsgroups: soc.roots
From: hiscrp@nuscc.nus.sg (C R Pennell)
Subject: Re: Need help with rubbings and relation chart.
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 23:34:25 GMT

STEINER@MUPPET.DNET.GE.COM writes:
: Ron Prine, prine@lle.rochester.edu, asked about rubbings:
: 
: Heritage Books in VA used to sell a rubbing kit.  I don't have the
: address handy but can get it for you.
: 
: Gary
: steiner@muppet.dnet.ge.com

NOw is the moment for arcane information time. What you want is cobbler's
black or cobbler's heel, a thick very hard very black waxy block used by
cobblers. And - if it's  a tombstone which will be rough from being
outside - STRONG paper: lining paper, the stuff you put on walls before
you paint them.	

I realise finding a real cobbler might be difficult in USA, I remember
having terrible problems in Boston. Found one eventually - an elderly
Lebanese in a tiny shop just down from the main square in Belmont Mass!
But he was very old. . .

Richard Pennell, History NUS
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Fri, 1 Jan 1993 18:06:59 EST
Reply-To:     Ann McWilliams <MCWILL@ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA>
From:         Ann McWilliams <MCWILL@ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA>
Subject:      canadian Postage

Attention all those interested in S.A.S.E. for Canadian Sources.

As of January 1, 1993 Canada Post has increased the cost of mailing
a letter from Canada to the U.S. by .01  It will now cost $.49 to
send a letter,

Ann

P.S. has the U.S. postal rates changed?? Thanks
From: SYSDAVES@CWU.BITNET (Dave Storla, Information Resources - User Services,
              Cent. Wash. Univ., Ellensb urg,
              WA 98926 (509-963-2955))
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Re: Help with rubbings from gravestones
Date: 28 Dec 92 14:58:00 GMT
Reply-To: "Dave Storla, Information Resources - User Services,
              Cent. Wash. Univ., Ellensb urg,
              WA 98926 (509-963-2955)" <SYSDAVES@CWU.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: roots-l@NDSUVM1.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"roots-l@ndsuvm1"
X-VMS-Cc: SYSDAVES

>>prine@ilex.lle.rochester.edu (Ron Prine) asks:

>>Re: Need help with rubbings and relation chart.


>>1)  Last week I went to my a cemetery that had alot of family in and
>>found a few stones that I would like to do rubbings of.  I have never
>>done a rubbing and I remembered that there was a recommendation of
>>using some type of sewing product to do the rubbings a few months back
>>on the news.  What was this product (All I can think of was wonder
>>under or some type of self adhering basting paper) and if possible
>>could I get the original posting on how to do this.  The stone I want
>>to do a rubbing of has 4 lines of text that has been buried.


Jill Miller replied:

>As a sewing-type person, I would recommend any kind of NON-WOVEN, and
>NON-KNIT interfacing material, especially the NON-IRON-ON type in a light
>weight.  The iron-on type has a heat activated glue on one side which makes
>it quite stiff and somewhat bumpy.  If I remember right, Wonder-Under is a
>very light (good), iron-on (not-so-good) version of non-woven interfacing.


As I recall from a posting several months ago, the suggested material was
pelan (probably not spelled correctly).  Perhaps Jill can clarify this.
I believe that the posting suggested using a color crayon on the pelan to
copy the text.

David L. Storla
E-mail:  SYSDAVES@CWU.BITNET
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home)
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Re: Johannes Petrus
Date: 31 Dec 92 19:18:45 GMT
Organization: CompuData Inc.

Lisa Oberg <lisanne@U.WASHINGTON.EDU> writes:

>To get to my question, if I standardize spellings while maintaining the
>integrity of the original document's spelling in my notes is that doing
>a disservice to those who follow along after me and who [hopefully]
>will inherit my research?

I really don't see how you can attempt to second guess the source documents. 
They are the only thibg you have. Use the names that were recorded and them 
attempt to use the other names in notes or whatever other means you have for 
making a record of the person's other name usages. 

fred

PS Take the case of Johan Schmidt. He often immediately became John Smith over 
here. But his genealogical links are to the Schmidts of Germany while his 
children are now called Smith. The eternal linkage is SCHMIDT.


-- 
W. Fred Rump 	office:	   fred@COMPU.COM     'mans feet have grown/so big 
26 Warren St.   home: fred@icdi10.compu.com  that he/forgets his littleness'
Beverly, NJ. 08010                          		Don Marquis 
609-386-6846    bang:uunet!cdin-1!icdi10!fr   
Newsgroups: soc.roots
From: lawson@acuson.com (Drew Lawson)
Subject: Re: Spouses, children, & software
Reply-To: lawson@aldia.UUCP (Drew Lawson)
Organization: ACUSON, Mountain View, CA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 20:41:07 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.193008.10648@compu.com> fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home) writes:
>PLOWRY@NERVM.BITNET (Paul Lowry) writes:
>
>>To Thomas Wetmore, IV:
>
>>I would have to disagree with your definition of genealogy.  There are several
>>reasons people choose to do genealogy.  One reason is to trace inheritance.
>>In this case adoption is very important, since most adopted children are
>>legal heirs to their adopted parents.

>Wrong. Inheritance has nothing to do with genealogy. A will does. In any case 
>that is a one generational thing and would be limited to the tiniest 
>percentage of all genealogical research.

A will (if it exists, that is) determines inheritance of property.
There are other things which may be inherited.  In general, a will has
no bearing on inheritance of a title or (in some countries) the right
to employ a heraldic device.


>The very word comes from genes which are inherited - not adopted.

I was wainting for someone to bring this up.  It is simple, precise and
wrong.

The same reasoning would determine that geologists should not examine
moon rocks because they are not from the earth (=geo).



>My father was adopted too. And maybe some day I may investigate the Rump name 
>but in the meantime I have the real parents and their relatives to trace. 
>Culturally speaking - there wasn't much either way. If you look back a bit 
>most people simply struggled to survive.

Yes, but how did they struggle?  There is much more to culture than
knowing which fork to use and whether to use the china or the
sterling.  Struggling on a farm has little in common with struggling in
a carpentry shop in the city.

My mother is adopted.  Neither she no I have any idea who her
biological parents are, and unless I get complete dead ends and have a
lot of free time, I am unlikely to even research the issue.  It has
nothing to do with the stories passed down.  No one I know ever knew
them.  It is that kind of link which makes this different.  I never
knew my gg-grandfather, but my grandfather, who I know, knew him.



Gee, this is starting to collide with the current CompuServe thread on
"Why do you search."

-- 
Drew Lawson                      If you're not part of the solution,
lawson@acuson.com                you're part of the precipitate
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: OLIPHANT
From: britton_j@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Date: 27 Dec 1992 19:47:47 GMT
Reply-To: britton_j@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Organization: Wellington City Council (Public Access), Wgtn, Nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

Anyone researching "OLIPHANT? Would appreciate comments from you.
Likely countries - USA, Eire, UK. Thanks......

John   
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9]
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:03:59 EST
Reply-To:     Brian Abernathy <cba@EWS001.ATL.HP.COM>
From:         Brian Abernathy <cba@EWS001.ATL.HP.COM>
Subject:      Requesting information on Belfield
Comments: To: roots-l@VM1.NoDak.EDU

I am posting this on behalf of a friend.  He is becoming interested in
searching his family: Belfield, and asked that I post a request to the
ROOTS-L list.  Does anyone out there have any research information on
the name BELFIELD?



                                        Brian Abernathy
                                        Hewlett-Packard Company
                                        Atlanta Response Center
Newsgroups: soc.roots
From: kathleen@casbs.Stanford.EDU (Kathleen Much)
Subject: Re: England Q: recording shire names
Organization: Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 00:48:51 GMT

In article <9212281757.AA07506@enterprise.vortech.com> Brian Madsen <bmadsen@VORTECH.COM> writes:
>
>Is the name "Lincolnshire" analogous to "Manitowoc County"; in other
>words, is the "-shire" suffix expendable?  When I record place names,
>should I:
>
>     a) use "Lincoln, Lincoln, England", because the "-shire" suffix
>        is assumed, as it is for "Manitowoc County" in my earlier
>        example?

Yes, Lincolnshire is analogous to Manitowoc County. Omitting the
'shire' would be OK, but might be confusing, especially if you have
only the county name and not a city within it.

>     b) use "Lincoln, Lincolnshire, England" because the place name
>        is really "Lincolnshire", and the folks who recorded it as
>        "Lincoln" are simply wrong?

This is my preference to avoid confusion.  The folks who recorded it
as Lincoln aren't wrong, though.

>And on a related note, the English locality divisions -- Lincoln-
>shire, Herefordshire, and so on -- what are they called?  Counties?
>Shires?

They are called both shires and counties in historical documents, but
now they are counties.  You have to be careful with early records,
because many counties have the same name as their principal cities
(Cambridge in Cambridgeshire, Oxford in Oxfordshire, Nottingham in
Nottinghamshire, York in Yorkshire, Durham in County Durham, etc.),
and documents may not be clear about whether the city or the county
was meant.  Several counties were "counties palatine" (Lancaster,
Chester, Ely, and Durham), meaning their lords had royal powers (in
colonial America, Maine, Maryland, and Carolina were also
palatinates), and they never use "shire": County Durham, County of
Chester, etc.  Canterbury is the main city in Kent (now a county,
formerly a kingdom under the Anglo-Saxons), which is also never given
"shire" as a suffix, but Shrewsbury is the main city in Shropshire.

When you're doing research in England, you might find it helpful to
get a list of the current counties, the old counties (for instance,
Rutland doesn't exist anymore), and the abbreviations.  "Oxon" is the
Latin abbreviation for Oxfordshire and also for the University of
Oxford, "Salop" is the Latin for Shropshire.
-------------------
Seeking ACTON, BAILEY, BALL, BEALE, BEAUMAN (BEAUMIER), BILLINGTON,
BOBO, BRAKE, BRITTAIN (BRITTON), CALVERT, COLSTON, CORGAN (CORRIGAN),
EVERENDEN (EVERDEN, EVENDEN, EVERNDON), FERREE (FERIE, FIERRE, FIRE,
FIERE), GRIFFIN, HARM, HARWAR, HEWITT, KENNERLY, LEATHERWOOD, LEE,
LEFEVRE, McCARTY, McQUEAD, MUCH, MURFIN, MUSGROVE, PILGRIM (PILGRAM),
POPE, SAUERWEIN, SONTAG, TARRANT, TAVERNER, TERRY, UNDERWOOD,
WAREMBOUR (de WARENBUR), WEGMAN, WOODRUFF, YERBY.


-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Kathleen Much, Editor		|E-mail: kathleen@casbs.stanford.EDU
CASBS, 202 Junipero Serra Blvd.	|Phone: (415) 321-2052
Stanford, CA  94305		|Fax: (415) 321-1192
From: imer400@indyvax.iupui.edu
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Re: Allen County Library
Date: 30 Dec 92 12:00:57 -0500

In article <ROOTS-L%92122910223528@VM1.NODAK.EDU>, P77701RS@WUVMC.BITNET (Samantha Ruffini) writes:
> Would someone tell me the phone number for the Allen County Library in
> Fort Wayne, Indiana?  I lost my note with the number and address.
> 
> Thank you, Samantha
Main Library phone is 424-7241.
             address is 900 Webster Street
From: fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home)
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Re: HOW & WHERE TO ARCHIVE GEN. DOCUMENTS
Date: 31 Dec 92 19:38:06 GMT
Organization: CompuData Inc.

Richard Casault <casault@U.WASHINGTON.EDU> writes:

>How do genealogists archive the documents they collect to support their
>genealogies?

>Storage space is expensive.

You ask two questions: How and Where?

Obviously every genealogist does his own thing but should or could be done is 
another thing. Presumeably it all depends on how serious a task the author 
thinks he has accomplished. What did it cost? How good is the data? How much 
does the author value his labors? In other words was it for his own pleasure 
or does he really wish to preserve the data for future generations?

My personal answer to all these things is that I value my efforts very high 
and will spare almost no expense in preserving it. I think my parents and 
their parents etc are worth whatever the cost. So I will be scanning 
everything into an imaging system. The software I use is Westbrook's IMAGIC!

As I gather more and more documents, I will eventually save this data upon 
laser-optic disks as I will also store the family history that I'm really 
working on long range.  


> Most libraries probably can't afford to
>archive boxes full of genealogical materials.  Family members are
>unreliable in most cases.  Are there other organizations, like historical
>or genealogical societies, who will provide safekeeping?   Would some
>agency be willing to store the material if it is reduced to microform?

I would suspect that optical media or WORM drives will become quite common and 
that most folks will have one on their computers as time goes on. Presumably 
there will also be central depositories for these small disks that may be used 
for research by the people of tomorrow. Paper is definitely on the way out. 
Much has already faded or will soon enough disappear from sight. Digital 
imaging is a must. For now I will trust my heirs with the family history. 

One of these days I will change my will to mention this data and its possible 
disposition, if my heirs do not desire its continous maintenance, at the 
American Society of Genealogists or the LDS depository in Utah. I just hope I 
get my timing right so that all this is taken care of before I leave this 
earth. There is lots of work left.

fred

-- 
W. Fred Rump 	office:	   fred@COMPU.COM     'mans feet have grown/so big 
26 Warren St.   home: fred@icdi10.compu.com  that he/forgets his littleness'
Beverly, NJ. 08010                          		Don Marquis 
609-386-6846    bang:uunet!cdin-1!icdi10!fr
From: Brian.Mavrogeorge@p0.f30.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Brian Mavrogeorge)
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Re: HRC
Date: 31 Dec 92 15:16:29 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:125/30.0 - Roots(SF!), San Francisco CA


 -=> Quoting Wkimler31 Dec 92 07:58:16rew.Drew.Edu to All <=-

 Wk> My name is fairly rare (Kimler) and i was surprised that they
 Wk> had a history on it.
 Wk> 
 Wk> Does anyone know if this group is on the level - or have I
 Wk> been scammed?

Depends on your ability to prove your descent from the family history
they have provided. Having the same surname doesnot entitle one to the
family crest or coat of arms. My opinion (and worth the two cents you
haven't paid for it) is that these types of things provide material
for interesting party conversations but little of substance.

They advertised and sold you a history of the Kimler name. What they
did not guarantee you was that you are a part of that family, nor
that the history is correct.




--  
Brian Mavrogeorge - via FidoNet node 1:125/555
    UUCP - ...!uunet!hoptoad!kumr!fidogate!30.0!Brian.Mavrogeorge
INTERNET - Brian.Mavrogeorge@p0.f30.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41)
Subject: N.N. Strubing
Reply-To: eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu
Organization: MIT Lincoln Lab - Group 41
Date: 28 Dec 92 14:01:43

The recent discussion on baptismal records of illegitimate children
leads me to ask if anyone can help me interpret my latest genealogical
find from the church records of Kleinenbremen, Germany, in records
from the 1780's and 1790's.  The records are in German.

In looking up my great-great-grandmother's baptism, I find that her
father is listed as N.N. Strubing.  (N.N. means nomen nescio or some
such, but I always translate it as No Name.)  Her mother is not
listed.  Now I wonder why only the father is named, and then only by
last name?  Other baptisms typically had both parents' full names,
including the mother's maiden name and the father's farm name if
appropriate.

One might think that this is because the child was illegitimate.  But
illegitimate children in the same time span (even the same
handwriting), were listed explicitly as such ("unehelich"), with the
mother's full name given, and any information as to the father's name
as well.

One might think that this is because the father wasn't known in the
parish, and that the child was brought to the baptism by someone else.
Yet the N.N. Strubing was given as the father's name five times for
five Strubing baptisms.  Surely by the fifth one the pastor would know
the Strubings a little better.  I know that at least one of the
children was confirmed at the same church.  There is no evidence for
Strubing families at Kleinenbremen before this one, however.

The first baptism was witnessed by the father's brother (des Vaters
Bruder).  Again no first name.

My great-great-grandmother's marriage record from a different town
gives her father's given name as Johann Friedrich Strubing.  Why
didn't the Kleinenbremen pastor want to write down this name?
And why no mother's name ever?

=Jim
--
=Jim  eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)
From: Joe.Sissom@f81.n130.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Sissom)
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Help with gravestone rubbing
Date: 29 Dec 92 16:59:30 GMT

It depends on whether you want a 'rubbing for a RUBBING's sake', or do you want to know what is on the tombstone.  If the latter, spray shaving cream over the face & wipe it down.  Nothing better!  The shaving cream stays in the crevices and becomes very readable.
Joe

 * Origin: FamilyResearch <Bedford,TX> (817) 571-1373 V.32 (1:130/81)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Fri, 25 Dec 1992 22:37:21 CST
Reply-To:     JMILLER@PRIME.MHSL.UAB.EDU
From:         JMILLER@PRIME.MHSL.UAB.EDU
Comments: To: roots-l@vm1.nodak.edu

Can anyone tell me where Red Banks, KY is/was located?

Thanks!

Jean Spradlin-Miller

jmiller@prime.mhsl.uab.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU