HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ghill@dot.cs.colorado.edu (Gregory Hill)
Subject: grease
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 18:25:43 GMT


|> 
|> Hey, we need to come up with a grease rating system.
|> 	G0 No grease.
|> 	G1 (La Cosita, right)
|> 	G2 ...
|> 	etc.
|> 

>>You're really onto something here Eugene!

>>The first pitch of La Escuela - G2
>>  "like trying to layback a buttered elephant"
>>  "like trying to layback soap"

>>Whale's Tail Mantle (Eldo) - G3

>>Country Club Crack - G2 

Other eldo grease ratings:

Bastille Crack - G3
Grand Course, P1 - G2
Foothold at crux of Center Route: G3 (or should that be a "rubber rating": R3 ???)
Foothold at crux of Cruisin' for Burgers: G2 (R2)
 
And finally, for those *especially* ABRASIVE climbs, perhaps we should have negative
grease ratings!

e.g. piranha crack: G-13 (i've never done it, but the name alone should merit the rating)

weasels rip my flesh: G-1 (approach: G-8; if you're wearing shorts, G-18)

anything at vedauwoo: G-?

any approach to any climb at cochise stronghold, ariz.: G-23, be sure to pack extra blood...


Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: double 9s was Joining of Rappel Ropes
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 07:01:42 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <1992Aug29.024833.19448@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>
bobh@fuji.hwr.arizona.edu (Bob Harrington) writes:
	two Figure 8 knots in series
>Obviously, it's relatively prone to getting hung up. 
>
>This has been my experience too. I would use double 8.8s routinely, except
>they wear out too fast. Has anyone out there used enough different brands
>of nine-mil to have an opinion as to which is the most durable?

The so called water-proof ropes do appear to last longer.  My first pair
of 9s were both Edelrids (one red the other blue).  The second set were
two different brands: a Mammut, and one other.  The M was "waterproof."
While not as proof as one would like it does take in less water and wears
better.  Two colors are essential ("Up Red" or "Slack on Yellow," either
way not a beginner technique).

>I think double nines make rockfall less worrisome -- you have twice as
>many ropes that have to be chopped before all your ropes are chopped.

This assumes three things: 1) the ropes are adequately spaced apart, frequently,
they are not, and 2) the rock hitting one does not span over to the other:
frequently it does.  3) Multiple impacts don't occur: also happens.
The problem is similar to assuming increased reliability in parallel
processors.  I wish you were right.

>>Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
>And the first?

An error message produced by the sendmail program which goes:
"Max Hop Count >30 exceeded.  With 30+ lines of header error messages
I refuse to talk to myself."  It occurs when a person has two or more
computers (like a workstation) and you set up two .forward files:
each pointing to the other host.  The mail ping pongs then gets
returned to sender.  The user of course wonders why he/she isn't
getting any mail.

Also popular with people at Ames is "Device is not a typewriter."

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: drburne@eos.ncsu.edu (DALE ROBERT BURNETT)
Subject: Re: Chalking Up (was: grease)
Originator: drburne@c00454-313mn.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: drburne@eos.ncsu.edu (DALE ROBERT BURNETT)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 16:11:58 GMT



>Chalk is an ego thing where people want to climb a slightly higher number.
>The cost is ugly chalk all over the rock marking the route.  I won't propose
>the thought of banning chalk because there is NO WAY this is going to happen.
>I am not militant about this chalk issue.  All my partners climb with chalk.
>I accept it as a necessary evil of climbing.  But come on, it is completely
>ridiculous to ban chalk on the easier climbs.


I agree.  Too many high end climbers have an elitists attitude.  They dont
stop and think that a climber whose limit is 5.7 has to struggle the same
as a climber whose limit is 5.13.  

I like Bill Wright's suggestion.  Let Peter Croft make the rules and we'll
see lots elitist climbers turn wimp.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: wild@eng.umd.edu (Randolph F. Wild)
Subject: Re: Chalking Up (was: grease)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 92 18:53:24 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: usa
Originator: wild@pepsi.eng.umd.edu


In article <34682@hoptoad.uucp>, rob@cygnus.com (Rob Savoye) writes:
>In article <15217@umd5.umd.edu> jjk@astro.umd.edu (Jim Klavetter) writes:
>
>   I just got back from about 3 weeks out west.  Didn't use chalk once.
>   Pain in the ass, I think, so I generally don't use it.  I get back to
>   DC area and call the weather on the first day I'm going to go climbing
>   back here and it is 97% humidity.  Even though I got a 6a start, I
>   think a 5.1 would have been almost impossible without chalk!
>
>   Well, so maybe this chalk thing depends a little on where you are,
>   etc.
>
>I don't think so. I climbed for many years on the east coast and
>*never* used chalk. I still don't.

Lucky are those whose hands do not sweat.

  Many climbs in the DC area are very slick and greased up by hundreds of
climbers each season.  The quartzite nubs that are now polished require
dry hands and the high humidity encumbers those of use that sweat profusely.
By the way, 6:00 am is the time of about the highest humidity here.  The time
that the humidity is the lowest is when the temperature is highest some time
around 4-6pm during the summer.  So basicaly its a catch-22 for people with
water palms.  I have known climbers here that began with a no chalk ethic
only to abandon it when they found they just couldn't do routes that were 
otherwise within their ability.  Also when these climbers started using chalk 
they used it as the situation demanded as opposed to chalking up out of
habit like most of us do.

                                             RANDY
From: j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Elison)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 15:44:31 GMT
Subject: Re: What is this "New Ethic"
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing

In rec.climbing, chris@engineer.mrg.uswest.com (Chris Fedde) writes:

> Should I throw away my
> stoppers and hexcentrics and buy a hammer drill and some expansion
> bolts? 
> 
> 	thanks
> 	chris

It depends on what you want to do.  If you want to place bolts, then a
hammer drill will work alot better than your stoppers and hexes.  However,
if you want to climb traditional routes, I'd hang on to the stoppers
and hexes.  A hammer drill gets pretty heavy to lug along on a trad route.

hope that helps,
Mort

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Subject: Herr Doktor O.W.  (BB)
Reply-To: uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 00:59:42 GMT

Okay, just a simple question (Are you reading this Bailey???);

Does a climb deserve the status of "Off-Width" if TRUE O.W. technique is NOT
required in order to do it?  For example,  "Mainstreet" @ Vedawoo certainly is
OW, but is the Diving Board in Eldo?  

I'd like to hear from all the wide crack afficionados out there (i.e. probably
all three of them...)

$SET_MODE/NOFLAME.
From: jjk@astro.umd.edu (Jim Klavetter)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Dolomite Address
Date: 27 Aug 92 01:49:40 GMT
Organization: U. of Maryland @ College Park, Astronomy

Well my local REI can't help me so I hope some kind person will be
able to tell me the address of Dolomite (as in Dolomite climbing
shoes).  Thanks for any info.

jjk@astro.umd.edu also for Athabasca and Reudi
Jim Klavetter
Astronomy
UMD
College Park, MD  20742
From: CMSC28@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Mark Hickey)
Subject: Re: Joining of Rappel Ropes
Organization: Motorola
Date: 31 Aug 1992 13:11:16 CDT

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
I've got a great knot I call the "rat's nest".  Requires no concentration
to tie. Looks different every time I tie it.  In fact, sometimes the rope
ties this knot itself.  Sort of an "automatic" knot...

Bruce Bailey (Dr. OW)

Bruce;
The best way to consistantly tie this amazing knot is to get totally
blown on a long climb, and then carefully gather your rope and toss
it over the edge for a long rap.  It'll tie itself into a perfect
rat's nest almost every time!

Mark (granite withdrawl in Florida) Hickey

From: eao@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Ed Ogle)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 20:57:09 GMT
Subject: NEW Casio Alto Watch...
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing


Has anyone out there seen or had experience with the new Casio Altimeter
watches?

My question is, is the new model temperature compensated?  The people in
the store where I was looking at it couldn't answer this question.  I have 
had one of the old ones for about two years and know that the reading can 
change about 200 feet in the winter depending on the air temperature.  This 
new version will display the altitude and the temperature, thus, it seams 
as though it would be easy to make it temperature compensated.

By the way, it still only goes to 13,120 feet (4000m) which is a little low
for Colorado and cost $160.00.  

I guess as long as my old one works, I won't be getting one anyway.

-ed ogle    eao@hpeseao.fc.hp.com
From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: emergency techniques
Date: 28 Aug 1992 22:57:56 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver-248

In article <27821@sophia.inria.fr> mangin@debussy.inria.fr (Frank Mangin) writes:
>-- 
>
>- Body belay is OF COURSE less safe. Those who pretend the opposite can make
>extensive testing if they want, but I don't think they really trust what they
>say.

This is simply not true.  There are cases, especially when you have
questionable anchors(this happens sometimes!), when being able to
absorb some of the fall with a body belay can actually be safer.

I am amazed at all this negative publicity.  I might remind the
readers of the net that nearly all great alpine and rock faces
(yeah, like the Eiger, Walker Spur, Cime Ovest, El Capitan,
etc., etc.) were first climbed using body belays.

As recent accidents at major climbing areas have shown, the new
generation of climbers need devices like Grigris, et. al. to make
up for their lack of concentration while belaying.  I still use
the body belay when I fell it is appropriate, to condem it
universally is to demonstrate ignorance of its history and 
its potential safety enhancing features.

Bruce


Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Misleading News Reports 
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 18:32:37 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.203746.2304@guinness.idbsu.edu>
jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu writes:
>While we're on the topics of news articles and untimely deaths
>in the outdoors ... could someone explain exactly what
>they mean when they say the two following types of things?
>
>1) He/she died of natural causes ....
>                  ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^
>2) He/she was found in about 15 different pieces, partly
>   stuffed into a glove compartment and otherwise stored
>   in the refridgerator, foul play is suspected.
>                         ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^ ^^^^^^^^^
>
>Don't mean to sound callous to what's been going on, ...
>just trying to lighten things up a bit.

Uncle Fred (the skiing family doctor), the pathologist once talked about
this.
1) Natural causes implies a "natural" death.  A person given the statistics
	will last about 70 years (with a considerably variance).  Deaths
	of course are catalogued, and if you approach that age and die
	of a "cause" which is catalouged, then you died of a natural cause.
	Also try "artificial causes." E.g., natural: stroke, heart disease.
	Falling off a cliff might be "natural causes."  An amazing number
	of people slip and fall in showers.  A coroner must decide.
2) Some evidence suggestions a natural death did not occur.  That fuse of
there in the corner, the powder burns on the body, that bloody ice pick
(hum same blood type as the victim), 

The net has become considerably more serious after recent events in Canada.
Postings will probably be used as evidence for/against the fellow.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: ghill@dot.cs.colorado.edu (Gregory Hill)
Subject: blob rock closure
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: boulder
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 16:59:46 GMT

There is currently a sign at the trailhead to blob rock in boulder
canyon designating that the area is closed due to eagles, but giving
no date for the period of closure. It appears to be a division of
wildlife sign, but I have called them and they denied its being theirs.
I have also called the state, county, and city rangers. They all point
to the division of wildlife. I called the d.o.w. back, and they said they
would try to figure out if it is theirs. In the meantime, does anyone
know anything about this closure? It should be way past time by now to
reopen this rock, and appears to be the case that this sign has "fallen
through the cracks" and needs to be taken down.

thanks, greg hill
From: czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: boots
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:13:22 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Texas Instruments

In article <17te3bINN6i7@agate.berkeley.edu> stanford@spark (Adam Stanford)
writes:
>I'm interested in buying some plastic boots, mainly for
>glacier travel.  Can anyone offer some advice about what
>to look for in the way of features, brands and prices?

Cardinal Rule #1: Don't economize on double boots.  Get the best double boots
you can afford.  If you can't afford first rate double boots, don't buy any.
I've had experience with four models, old Kolflachs, Lowa Denalis, Asolo AFS
102s, and Asolo AFS 101s.  I bought the 101s earlier this year.  It took me
three months to make a final selection.

Last year, I rented an old pair of Kolflachs for a volcanoe climbing trip in
Mexico (Popo, etc.).  They were in sad shape.  I spent over 20 hours in them.
It was pure hell.  Cardinal Rule #2: Don't wear double boots any longer than
you absolutely need to.  A climbing partner had Lowa Denalis.  She said they
were very comfortable.  I tried hiking around in a pair.  She was right.
They're a good buy at $270, but not at $350 (their new price).  For that sort
of money I decided to try Asolos.  I ordered a pair of 102s.  They're flexible
enough for glacier hiking but I couldn't get the inner boot to fit right
regardless of sock combinations.  I tried the older 101s.  They're stiff as
hell (carbon fiber shank) but they fit perfectly.  Asolo's boot guide lists
them as primarily a technical boot.  Lowe footfangs lock onto them really
well.  We'll see if I made the right selection when I'm climbing in the Andes
this winter.

You might want to check AAI's Equipment Catalog.  They do product evaluations.
Their phone # is (206) 671-1570.

Cary Czichon
czichon@csc.ti.com
From: bruceb@roadrunner.denver.sgi.com (Bruce Bailey)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: grease
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:53:53 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <1992Aug28.182543.9661@colorado.edu>, ghill@dot.cs.colorado.edu (Gregory Hill) writes:
|> 
|> |> 
|> |> Hey, we need to come up with a grease rating system.
|> |> 	G0 No grease.
|> |> 	G1 (La Cosita, right)
|> |> 	G2 ...
|> |> 	etc.
|> |> 
|> 
|> >>You're really onto something here Eugene!
|> 
|> >>The first pitch of La Escuela - G2
|> >>  "like trying to layback a buttered elephant"
|> >>  "like trying to layback soap"
|> 
|> >>Whale's Tail Mantle (Eldo) - G3
|> 
|> >>Country Club Crack - G2 
|> 
|> Other eldo grease ratings:
|> 
|> Bastille Crack - G3
|> Grand Course, P1 - G2
|> Foothold at crux of Center Route: G3 (or should that be a "rubber rating": R3 ???)
|> Foothold at crux of Cruisin' for Burgers: G2 (R2)
|>  
|> And finally, for those *especially* ABRASIVE climbs, perhaps we should have negative
|> grease ratings!

Cool!  A bi-directional scale!

|> 
|> e.g. piranha crack: G-13 (i've never done it, but the name alone should merit the rating)
|> 
|> weasels rip my flesh: G-1 (approach: G-8; if you're wearing shorts, G-18)
|> 
|> anything at vedauwoo: G-?
|> 
|> any approach to any climb at cochise stronghold, ariz.: G-23, be sure to pack extra blood...
|> 

Or perhaps a 2D graph that contains both Grease and Abrasion factors. Not sure
how this would work.  Or should there be another independent rating scale
for abrasion, e.g., "5.shred".  The biggest gobie I ever got (even with tape)
was on "Steppin Out".  How would we define the high end of the scale?
Perhaps something like 50% body abrasions?

Bruce Bailey (Dr. OW)
From: bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us (bob pasker)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: emergency techniques
Date: 26 Aug 92 04:50:59 GMT
Organization: Disorganized Organization

In article <BtKA87.s5.2@cs.cmu.edu>, cline+@cs.cmu.edu (Kenneth Cline) writes:
> Look, Bob
> From my point of view, you are trying to change the topic to win an
> argument.  

isn't that my prerogative?

anyway, i'm not trying to win an argument, i'm just trying to present
a case.  so you win, ok?

-- 
-- bob pasker
-- bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us 
--
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: bruceb@roadrunner.denver.sgi.com (Bruce Bailey)
Subject: Re: What is this "New Ethic"
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:31:29 GMT

Mort Sez:

|> In rec.climbing, chris@engineer.mrg.uswest.com (Chris Fedde) writes:
|> 
|> > Should I throw away my
|> > stoppers and hexcentrics and buy a hammer drill and some expansion
|> > bolts? 
|> > 
|> > 	thanks
|> > 	chris
|> 
|> It depends on what you want to do.  If you want to place bolts, then a
|> hammer drill will work alot better than your stoppers and hexes.  However,
|> if you want to climb traditional routes, I'd hang on to the stoppers
|> and hexes.  A hammer drill gets pretty heavy to lug along on a trad route.
|> 

Although, that bulky drill may wedge securely in that next wide section. I've
found that bulky 35mm camera setups work well this way sometimes!

Bruce Bailey (Dr. OW)
From: luong@naxos.inria.fr (Quang-Tuan Luong)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Party of 3 (was Re: Joining of Rappel Ropes)
Date: 30 Aug 92 12:45:19 GMT
Reply-To: luong@sophia.inria.fr
Organization: Inria Sofia Antipolis

In article <1992Aug28.173520.2782@guinness.idbsu.edu>, jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn) writes:
|> Another advantage to using a double rope set-up has to do with 
|> climbing a peak as a group of three.
[..]
|> This makes a three person team much faster.  If the potential for
|> falling is high, then I bring them up one at a time. 
[...]
|> I haven't heard any discussion on this way of using double ropes, 
|> so I'd be interested in opinions.


Sure, it is a very current practice. I have climbed perhaps more often with 
two fellows than with a single one. When climbing with belays, if the party
doens't spend time on rope manipulation, they can almost as fast as a two
climbers party. Difficult climbing and high potential for falling 
are not a problem in rock climbing with the New-Alp plate. However, in
extreme (say grade > 5) ice climbing the two seconds must be good too, to
protect themselves. Actually the main problem is when you have to simul-climb,
where beeing three makes the party more awkward unless the seconds are good
too. I find this way of climbing
very convivial. While the leader enjoys the concentration and commitment,
possibly spending some time in a pitch, the two others can chat together 
on belay instead of boring themselfves alone. As one member of the party
is always inoccupied, he can clean the rope, take pictures...

Tuan.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Joining of Rappel Ropes
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 00:17:39 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.102715.16677@hellgate.utah.edu>
allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:
>I think someone mentioned this but the Double Fisherman's knot is pain
>to untie.

How critical is your time to untie them and how do you work to untie them?
I've not had problems.  I work on one of the external loops first.
Typically takes about 30 secs to undo.

I hate climbing up on a failed retrieval (I think Hal did the last one for
me on the Beak Peak).

>I perfer a 100m rope rather two 50m ropes.  Then you never have to worry about
>the knot.

I like the ropes which have one pattern for 1/2 the rope and a different
pattern for the rest.  No need for a middle mark.  Two 11mms ago I got one
at REI.  The current set of double 9s I have are approaching retirement.
That's the biggest problem for me using 9s, they can't take the abrasion as
well because of their smaller diameter.  But I like the lighter weight.
It's more distressing with a thinner rope when you see abrasion dropping
little flecks of nylon on a modest edge.  Rockfall is also worrisome.

>"I though you brought the rope"
>	A climber to their partner after hiking in 10 miles.

Sheridan Anderson cartoon.  Great cartoon.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: leaver@thom2.comlab (Andrew Leaver)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Joining of Rappel Ropes
Date: 1 Sep 92 16:09:18 GMT
Organization: Oxford University Computing Laboratory, UK
Originator: leaver@thom2.comlab

In article <1992Aug28.102715.16677@hellgate.utah.edu>, allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:
>>In article morrison@cup.hp.com (Bobbie_Morrison) writes:
>>{removed...}
>>>Assuming the ropes the same diameter I personally like the Double Fisherman.
>
>I think someone mentioned this but the Double Fisherman's knot is pain
>to untie.  I use a figure 8 knot in a similar as you would tie a water
>knot. 
>

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned this, as it was brought up last time
the subject of joining abseil ropes was discussed:
 
The current recommendation of the British Mountaineering Council for
joining two ropes for abseiling is to lie the two ends side by side and
tie a simple overhand knot (thumb knot) in the pair of ropes. I must admit
that this looks horribly unsafe, and I wasn't at all keen on the idea
first time I saw it!

However, this method has apparently been tested and found to be as safe
as a figure 8, near as dammit, and has the added advantages of being
quicker to tie and untie. It also has the advantage that the knot is
small, and that it will lie _flat_ against the rock when the rope is
being retrieved (try tieing one and pulling it over a flat surface and
you'll see what I mean). This means that you reduce the chances of the
rope getting stuck during retrieval, which has got to be a good thing.

I started using this method this summer. Seems okay so far.

Andrew Leaver
--