HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Baretta 92
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:12:18 GMT
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma

#Police  Headquarters  building) here at Wright Patterson AFB and this  same
#subject came up.   There were about five Air Force SPs who were in the room
#at  the  time and they all agreed that they would rather have  a  different
#sidearm  other than the 92.   Three of them knew other AF cops who had been
#injured  by the slides coming off and the other two knew somebody who  told

Metal can fatigue, and not always in a predictable manner.

For example, one of my 1911 38 supers recently developed a long crack
(1/2 inch or so) running from the left side of the ejection port and down 
the slide (perpindicular to the axis of the bore).  Approximately 50% of the
metal preventing the rear 2" of the slide from hitting the shooter in the
face is broken.  This gun has been withdrawn from service until a new
slide can be fitted.

The design of the Beretta slide is such that only a small fraction (25%
or so) as much metal needs to break in the weakest point in the slide to permit
this separation to occur.  Breakage of the magnitude noted on my 1911
would be sufficient for this to happen.

Yes, I was shooting high pressure loads thru this gun (which has about
100K rounds thru it, counting the previous owner), bu*, are *you*
willing to bet *your* face that the Beretta slide will *never* break
in this weak point when there are quality competetive guns which do 
not suffer this design deficiency?


Rob Boudrie
rboudrie@chpc.org
From: brian@pdx.csd.mot.com (Brian Vandewettering)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Good gunsmith wanted
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:16:19 GMT
Organization: Motorola CSD, Beaverton, OR



I've got a Colt Lightning Rifle which needs some work.  Basically I'd 
like to get it cleaned up and working again without reducing it's 
collecter value.  Does anyone have a recommendation for a good 'smith
in the Pacific Northwest?  

Also, I've been told that I may be restricted to using black powder 
only in this rifle.  I know it's been shot with modern loads in the 
past but don't want to risk blowing it up.

The serial number dates it as 1885, second year of production.  

-- 
"It cannot be presumed that any clause in the Constitution is intended to
be without effect..."

- Chief Justice John Marshall, Marbury v. Madison, 1803
From: bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: "guns used more on owners than on burglars"
Date: 5 Sep 92 14:57:33 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group


/ iftccu:rec.guns / leone@gandalf.ssw.com (Bob Leone) /  3:01 pm  Sep  3, 1992 /
## I was led to believe that this was a bogus result of a flawed, outdated study
#
#The problems with this piece of data:

Not wanting to try our moderators patience, but (this is information!) there 
was a good article in this months (October) issue of HANDGUNS.  Short summary:

Only about 1400 people a year die of accidental firearms wounds.  Only about 
15% of them are due to handguns.  (From other sources, about 65-75% of 
accidental firearms deaths are due to hunting.)  About 2800 criminals are 
killed by civilians each year.  Thus, a handgun is 14 times more likely to 
kill a criminal than a non criminal.  Also, criminals stand a better 
chance of being killed by a civilian than by police.

If you are interested in this sort of information, you should be on 
talk.politics.guns.  If you can't get that group, email me and I can 
forward you some information.

Rick.
From: saksa@col.hp.com (Tom Saksa)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Youth Shooter Questions
Date: 9 Sep 92 03:16:26 GMT

My daughter, (age 9), has recently returned from a two week kids
summer camp where she did some conoeing, riding, archery, and
shooting.  Since then she expressed an interest in learning more
about target shooting, and I wish to oblige her if it can be done
reasonably safely.  I am hoping for a bit of advice, and the
answers to the following questions.

   1. Is 9 a good age, or should I try to hold off?  I know that
   this is probably somewhat dependent on the child and other
   situations.  My daughter is very responsible and I do not under
   any circumstances plan to allow her any unsupervised time with
   any firearm! 

   2. What should I use to teach fire arm safety?  I have a Daisy
   air rifle, and it seems to have the features I would want.  It
   is singlely loaded in the rear with a bolt like action.  It also
   has a safely similar to those on many 22 rifles.  I also have
   a 22 rifle, but it is a semi auto, and may not be a good
   choice.

   3. Where do I find shooting glasses in a size that works well
   for kids.  I cannot find child sized safety glasses anywhere.
   My daughter has used adult safety glasses at times and finds
   they tend to either get in the way, fall off, become
   uncomfortable, or all three.

   4. Should I not do any training at all, and get her into a
   club, class, or other program?

Any help would be appreciated.
From: rani@barsoom.nhh.no (Ragnar Nielsen)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: pressure stamp
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:05:13 GMT
Organization: Norwegian School of Economics

fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:

#In article <1992Sep9.215727.25015@cbnewse.cb.att.com> sfaber@ihlpb.att.com (Steven R Faber) writes:
##I saw a black powder rifle that had the barrel stamped
##700 Kp/cm^2
##Can anyone translate this to psi or offer some idea
##of what unit Kp is?

#There is something very odd here: "kp" would probably mean a kilopacsal,
#or 1000 Newtons/m^2. What exactly a "Kp/cm^2" means, I'm not sure. It
#_might_ mean 700,000 Newtons/cm^2 (or 70,000 kilopascals = 700 atm. =

No, it's nothing odd about it, bearing in mind that we're talking about
an old weapon and an old unit of measure.

Kp is (or rather was) an abbreviation for 'kilopond' an old measure of
force. If memory serves me correctly, the pond unit is defined as the
force excerted (sp?) by a body weighing a metric gramme in a standard
gravity field. Thus, a force of 1 Kp would equal 9,8 N.

regards,

ragnar
From: lobaugh@a.chem.upenn.edu (John Lobaugh)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: REQUEST for Texas handgun law info
Date: 12 Sep 92 16:54:20 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


In article <9209112226.AA64732@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> ildiko@lamar.ColoState.EDU writes:

#Are silencers illegal in every country, or just the US?
#
#[MODERATOR:  By "illegal" let us read "heavily regulated", since
#of course one can legally obtain a suppressor after enough background
#check, tax and administrative nonsense.....]

I am a complete novice. Why would you want to own a silencer?

-- 
John Lobaugh lobaugh@a.chem.upenn.edu   This message was made with only
100% recycled phosphor and electrons. 
 
[MODERATOR:  Why would one want to own a suppressor? You mean besides 
as a collector, or for hunting with reduced risk to your hearing, or
for target work or plinking with reduced nuisance noise to your neighbors,
or for ridding your farm of wild predators with reduced blast and risk
to your own stock?  Well, how about it, folks, let's let the poster know
if there are any reasons.  Of course, please let me head off the usual
run of responses and acknowledge right away: some thoughtful people believe
the poster's question is phrased in an insensitive and prejudicial manner,
since it presumes there is some reason why an honest citizen should not be
allowed to own and responsibly use a suppressor.   Since that discussion
will lead us to t.p.g., let us assume John didn't mean that and focus on
the positive, namely, applications of this technology.]
From: malodah@pbhyf.pacbell.com (Martin A. Lodahl)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: : Re: Stupid Shooter Tricks
Date: 7 Sep 92 20:46:14 GMT
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA


Remembered a couple more horror stories from my days at the range, both
involving shotguns.

I was shooting skeet one Wednesday morning (the rifle/pistol range, which I 
ran, was open Wednesday afternoons, and the shotgun range ran all day
Wednesdays.  Plus weekends, of course), when a gun blew up, sort of.
It was a Remington 1100 SB.  The barrel held, but the forearm splintered,
and there was damage to the gas mechanism that I can't precisely recall
after fifteen years or so.  The fiberglass pad at the back of the 
forearm was intact, and was unquestionably what saved the shooter from
injury.  He admitted that when he'd been loading that batch of shells
the loader had hung-up in mid stroke, so he'd pushed the lever back up
and tried again.  When the shell he'd been charging reached the shot
station, pellets poured over the top.  He just shook off the excess
and crimped ...

I stopped in at the gunshop owned by the club president one day, and
he told me he'd just refused to sell a box of shells to a fellow who
had brought in a Damascus-barrelled shotgun, asking if it was safe to
shoot.  The gunsmith had advised that he treasure the gun for its beauty,
but the customer wouldn't accept that.  About a week later the trapmaster
told me he'd had a fellow show up with a Damascus-barrelled shotgun
and a box of trap shells, and had refused to let him shoot, telling
him it wasn't safe.  A couple of weeks later, the original customer came
back to the gunshop with his hand bandaged. The right-hand barrel
had let go (on the first shot) right at the end of the chamber, taking
the ends of three fingers ...

Persistent stupidity has its price.
-- 
= Martin A. Lodahl    [DoD, AHA, NRA]  Systems Analyst, Pacific*Bell =
= malodah@PacBell.COM		Sacramento, CA, USA     916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!!  8-)} =
From: x90hornbach1@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Quality of European Block Pistols
Date: 4 Sep 92 23:44:23 GMT
Organization: Western Michigan University

I am curious as to the quality of some of the European block countries pistols. 
The one I am checking out now is the 7.62x25 Tokarev pistol (which also comes
with a seperate barrel chambered for a standard 9mm round).

I have seen these combos in SN for about $150 (+ or -).

-How does the 7.62 round compare with other rounds?  I looked in a ammo catalog
and noticed relatively high velocities (around 1600 fps, I think)

-Curious about overall quality-- workmanship, reliability, accuracy, etc...

I realize these pistols are single action and probably not made to the higest
standards, but the price is right and they seem like they'd make an interesting
addition to any collection.

I currently own a FEG model PA-63 9mm Makarov (9x18) which I am very pleased
with.  This hungarian PPK rip off is inexpensive, attractive, well made, and
fun to shoot.  For the price (around $120 with xtra clip & holster) I'd say it
can't be beat.


Happy shooting,

John 

x90hornbach1@gw.wmich.edu
From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Mossberg 500 vs Rem 8
Date: 10 Sep 92 12:29:05 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <1992Sep9.184932.29708@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
#On the Ithaca 37, doesn't the fact that the shotgun will go off as you
#pump it when the trigger is held down detract from accuracy?   I would
#have to try it to be sure, but it seems like having to pull the trigger
#for each shot, ala Moss 500 and Rem 870, would lend itself better to 
#accuracy.

Yep, but it sure is fast. With practice, straightline pumping, you
can keep your shots in a reasonable circle. I find I can keep all
my shots in a 24 inch circle at 15 yards when firing as fast as I
can. With the Streetsweeper, my rate of fire is much lower, and it's
harder to keep the shots in the circle. The spring powered drum
is a real bummer, and the lack of a real stock and the awkward balance
are hindrances in rapid fire. An autoloader might be faster, but I
doubt it. You still have to recover from recoil and work your finger.
I can pump during recoil and return to battery just as I regain the
target.

Gary
From: lvc@cbvox1.att.com (Lawrence V Cipriani)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Burris 4-12 x 56mm Signature Safari scope
Date: 14 Sep 92 22:41:12 GMT
Organization: Ideology Busters, Inc.

I'm going to a rifle-only class at the Chapman Academy the end
of October, and the long range shooting will go out to 600 yds.

I'm still trying to decide on a scope for my M1A to use for this
distance of shooting ...

Anyone have opinions on the Burris 4-12 x 56mm Signature Safari scope ?
I read a little about this scope in an issue of "Guns and Weapons for
Law Enforcement".  It seems like a great scope, if you can believe
gunzine writers (ha!).
-- 
Larry Cipriani, att!cbvox1!lvc or lvc@cbvox1.att.com
From: towle@vssteg.enet.dec.com (Clark Towle Gunsmith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: M16A2 barrel wearing out prematurely?
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:23:44 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <9209111726.AA00896@nuc.Utah.univel.COM>, Thi_Huynh@univel.COM (Thi Huynh) writes...
#Hi folks,
# 
#I've heard that US Army M16A2 barrels are wearing out prematurely with
#NATO SS109 (US M855) ammunition due to its 1x7 barrel twist.  I've also
#heard that the 1x7 twist was originally designed to handle the M856
#tracer round (which has longer bullet than the M855 round).  Can anyone
#confirm this?

 The 1/7 twist seems to cause premature throat erosion. The cause is because
the twist is so fast that the bullet actually skids a few thousands of an 
inch before the rifling takes hold and can stabilize it. This condition gets 
exagerated with each shot. I've seen barrels that swallow the throat erosion 
gage in as little as 2000 rounds. The 1/7 twist was originally deemed 
necessary to stabilize the SS109 round. There is no truth to the rumor it was 
needed to stabilize the tracer round.

#Can the 1x9 twist effectively handle the SS109 round?  What about heavier
#bullets such as the 69-grainers?  Can the 1x9 stabilize these too?

 Yes. As a matter of fact it is generally thought that the 1/9 twist is the 
best compromise twist for all 223 bullet weights. 1/9 barrels generally yield 
impressive accuracy results. 1/10 barrels come in next.

#What is the exact weight of the SS109?  I have seen 62-grain and read of
#63-grain!

 62 grains.
From: feffer@aludra.usc.edu (Justin Feffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Mini-30 & Chinese Ammo
Date: 8 Sep 92 13:58:00 GMT
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA

In another thread, someone mentioned the fact that the Mini-30 has a groove
diameter of .308 while the Com-Bloc ammo has .311 diameter bullets.  
This is indeed true, not only is it noted in SPEER RELOADING MANUAL #11,
but I pulled a bullet from a round of Chinese steel core FMJ and miked it at 
.311.

The question is whether one may fire the Chinese and other Com-Bloc ammo
without damaging the barrel of the Mini-30.  I recieved my Mini-30 second
hand and do not have an owner's manual which may answer this question.
I have already put about 40 rounds of Chinese Ball through my Mini-30, and
found the accuracy to be acceptable.

I noticed after pulling the bullet that the steel core has a relatively thick
copper jacket.  It may be that the firing of the Chinese ammo in the Mini-30
will result in excess fouling of the bore.  Anyway I am very curious to know
what the implications of firing the Chinese ammo through the rifle will be.

Please post or e-mail replies
Justin Feffer, NRA member.

feffer@aludra.usc.edu
From: jagst18+@pitt.edu (Josh A Grossman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: First Gun Suggestions?
Date: 13 Sep 92 00:11:47 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh College of General Studies


I would have to say that I agree with Bob Brunjes on this topic.

When I first learned to shoot it was with .22 Rugers and an H&R .22
revolver.  Then I didn't shoot for several years.  When I got back
into shooting I purchased a Ruger P85 (9mm).  I couldn't shoot it well.
One of my shooting buddies told me to buy a .22.  I did, my shooting got
better, and I got rid of my P85.  I still have my MkII, I also have a
S&W 617, both are great fun plinkers.  Both have taught many of my
friends the basics of shooting before moving them on to big bores.
And when I get a flinch or just see my group sizes getting bigger than I
like, I pick up one of my .22's and work on my basics, usually with in
a few magazines of .22 my form returns.

Well, just my $.02


Later,
Josh A Grossman
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rifled Shotgun Chokes
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:28:21 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

crs@beta.lanl.gov (Charlie Sorsby) writes:

#Considering bird shot, while even a two-foot pattern (if it were
#possible) at close range would be very painful if it penetrated skin,
#I don't believe that it would stop a determined assailant.  It is
#arguable whether it would penetrate heavy clothing.


How about heavy birdshot?   What are BBs, .18" vs .24" for #4 buck?
I would think that would penetrate a leather jacket, fat, or what-
ever standard psycho attire is these days.

The 7.5s and 12s and those little shots seem like big dust kind of, 
but big birdshout out to behave differently, it seems to me.

Jim Del Vecchio
From: purtilo@cs.umd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: shotgun part
Date: 15 Sep 92 13:59:13 GMT

Thanks to the folks who responded with help on my Browning.  For reference,
their maintenance center is in Missouri, at 800 322 4626.  Just called them,
and they had their act together ... and the news is better yet:  As one of 
the folks who responded to my post reminded me that I have a Superposed, not 
any gun called Invector, (why I had this brain fade when posting before is not
really clear) and of course the last this shotgun was manufactured was in 1976
(and mine was *well* before that.)  But it took the parts guy about eight 
seconds to determine he still had the part I needed (right ejector), for $36.  
He cautioned me it needed substantial fitting, but said sure, if I can't get
it done either myself or by someone local then they will do service on it out
there, with pretty good turn around.  I didn't go in depth with him on what
needs doing, figuring that I would wait to see what it looks like when I get
it, then try to ask more knowledgeable questions of them.

I like this kind of treatment.  I have this sudden urge to go out and buy
some more expensive Browning product .....
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Shotgun rib Scope mount
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:05:04 GMT
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

Does anyone know where I can get a mount that clamps onto the rib
on a shotgun? I don't want to drill and tape this gun, but i do want
to use a scope for deer season.


BTW, do any of the Dan Wesson scope mounts clamp to the rib? A mount
for two guns for the price of one would be nice.
-c
*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu 
* for sale: Springfield Armory Factory Comp, 38 Super, +3 mags. All new
* in box (never fired at all).  $650 or best offer over $600 as of Sep 30.
From: megatek!hollen@uunet.UU.NET (Dion Hollenbeck)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: States gun laws
Date: 9 Sep 92 21:27:31 GMT
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

I am thinking of moving to another state.  Could any of you please
comment on gun laws in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado,
New Mexico, Arizona, Texas or Arkansas.  These are some of the
possible places I am currently looking into.  Thanks.

-- 
Dion Hollenbeck       UUCP: {uunet, ucsd, sun}!megatek!hollen
                      INTERNET:            hollen@megatek.com
Megatek Corporation  9645 Scranton Rd.  San Diego, Ca.  92121
From: vtroll%triton.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Vincent Trollinger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RUGER MINI-14 ACCESSORIES
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:28:14 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

NEED INFO. PLEASE !
I would like to know if anyone can tell me how much factory 20 and 30
round mini-14 magazines are selling for at gun shows or shops if
available!
Thanks in advance for any help you can give me!
E-mail to:  vtroll@triton.unm.edu
Thanks,
VINCE
From: tmi@well.sf.ca.us (Peter Kasler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hand-loads for defense (was Re: Occasional Dud in Glock 20)
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:05:20 GMT
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link

In <13400041@iftccu.boeing.com> bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler) writes:

#Also good comments.  My slight refinement would be to avoid any
#statement that is obvious and could cast any sort of shadow on yourself.
#The responding officer will be quizzed by the investigating officer too.
#It is important to establish the (correct) dynamics of the situation.
#This does NOT (usually) include the fact that you shot somebody.  That
#is kind of obvious.  I mean, here is a body leaking blood all over your
#carpet, you are standing there with a smoking gun and you aren't denying
#anything.  It is kind of obvious that you shot the S.O.B.  You probably
#don't need to say so.  The important dynamic here is:

#He attacked my kids with a knife..

#He lunged at my wife with the club..

#He pulled a gun...

#You don't need to call attention to what you did, you need to clearly
#establish that you were reacting to a self defense situation.  You want
#to clearly establish that the person on the ground is the asshole, not
#you.

	You're on the right track, but even better advice is to avoid
saying anything at all substantive about what did or did not occur.
Also, I would suggest not using a written statement prepared at an
earlier time. It is okay to know what you're going to say before such
an incident occurs, if one ever does, but that's all. Say something to
the cops such as: "I don't mean to appear obstructionist, but I have
been advised to say nothing about what did or did not happen unless
and until my lawyer is present. Please do not ask me any questions."

	Making *any* statement about what happened, about how you feel
or felt at the time, or about anything else, once said, can never be
retracted. I have seen too many situations where someone sincerely
believed himself to have acted within the law (and usually did) and
felt he must say something to the cops, and later regretted it.

-- 
                           Peter Alan Kasler
                      Threat Management Institute
                 800 West Napa Street, Sonoma, CA 95476
     Voice: 707-939-0303  =  tmi@well.sf.ca.us  =  Fax: 707-935-1713
From: bartb@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com (Bart Bobbitt)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Tryouts for 1995 Palma Team
Date: 13 Sep 92 23:16:45 GMT

The next International Palma Matches will be held in New Zeland in January,
1995.  Here's the tentative plan for conducting the tryouts.  16 or 18
shooters will be selected.  Scores from the 1993 and 1994 National Matches
600 yard individual matches (3) and Palma Match will be combined into an
aggregate.  The top 30 civilian and top 20 military competitor's scores
will comprise those eligible to compete in the tryout matches to be shot
in September, 1994.  The top 16 or 18 shooters from that tryout will be
selected for the 1995 USA Palma Team.  International Palma teams may have
up to 4 military shooters; the rest must be civilians.  

As the 1995 International Palma Matches are only 4 months later, that does
not leave much time for rifle tuning, etc.

Please pass this information on to other highpower competitors you shoot
matches with.  If they want to go to the tryouts, they must attend both
the '93 and '94 National Matches and shoot the individual 600 yard and
Palma matches.

Should this schedule and plan change, I'll post the new stuff as it's known.