From: petrilli@nextover.pe.utexas.edu (Chris Petrilli)
Subject: Re: Austin Free-Net?
Originator: riddle@aahsa.tic.com
X-Submissions: eff-austin@tic.com
Organization: none
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:34:32 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.225349.27183@tic.com> jsq@tic.com (John Quarterman)  
writes:
> In article <1992Sep29.133024.17415@tic.com>  
petrilli@nextover.pe.utexas.edu (Chris Petrilli) writes:
> >>> Dell is connected via T1, not 56k.  MCC also has much bandwidth.
> >>> Alternet has a 256k circuit that is as good as 'on the Internet'.
> 
> An odd way to put it.  AlterNet has direct IP connectivity, and thus
> is on the Internet by definition, as is PSINet.  Both have points of
> presence in Austin.

I didn't say that, I quoted that :-)
 
> I have nothing directly to do with THEnet.  Several THEnet people have
> been known to read this newsgroup or list; they can speak for themselves.
> I will add some basic contextual commentary below, but if any of it is
> wrong, I hope someone from the mentioned networks will correct it,
> and supply any useful further details.

Thanks, there's so many midlevel networks any more that I get confused when  
I stray outside NEARnet :-)

> Yes, THEnet and SESQUINET are the NSFNET regionals in Texas.
> THEnet is based at UT Austin, and SESQUINET at Rice.

I was under the impression, from your book, that THEnet ran DECnet  
protocols, thereby making it not part of the "real" Internet (ie NSFnet)

> ?  UT already has networks.  However, if you're trying to reach former
> students who no longer have access....

I would like to reach EVERYONE, without regard to their standing  
financially or academically.

> Personally, I think the freenet approach has its benefits, mainly
> in very low end access for people who otherwise wouldn't be able
> to get on the net.  It also has its drawbacks, mainly in being difficult
> to scale, because revenues are not directly related to expenses.

There's no reason you can't have spinoff projects that get integrated.  But  
I think you have to make the minimum requirements reasonable, and not  
limiting it to people with 486/33s running MS-windows.  What about the  
people who still have C64s?  Are they unimportant because they don't (or  
can't) spend a couple thousand on a new computer?  In a way that smacks of  
extending the class system even farther and being a "technological bigot"  
(if you can't spend $5K, we don't want anything to do with you).  I won't  
be part of such, as it goes against everything I believe in.

> There are quite a few models for host-oriented access, including
> the World in Boston, Portal and the WELL in the SF area, and ECHO in NYC.
> Some of these, such as the World, are basically UNIX systems with plain
> old shells.

Then those are options, but not hte only.

> The Little Garden network in the SF Bay Area is one way of doing low cost
> IP connectivity to end user sites: 56Kbps IP links point to point between
> participating companies.

How many people want/need 56K IP links to their house?  let's be real and  
not get stuck in the "most bang" without regard to the purpose.  Do you  
purchase a Lamborghini Diablo to get groceries?  No, it isn't the  
appropriate vehical for the job.

> You can put KA9Q on a DOS machine and have SLIP by dialup in your house.

Sure, but what about people who don't have V.32 modems?  Let's be  
realistic, anything less than that is worthless for SLIP.  What about the  
large number of people that can't afford V.32, and are stuck with 2400 for  
now... are we to alienate them because we're too busy with building a  
glorious design in our ivory tower that crushes the populous.  If there are  
no people to use the network (or not enough) then it is of no value.

To munge what Sun once said:

	The People are the Network.

Without them, no matter how much technology you throw at it, it still has  
no value beyound it's worth as a technological exercise.

> Why does there have to be only one solution?

I propose multiple solutions.  Options for all, exclusion for none.

I may sound terribly like a Socialist, and I am in this respect.  
Information is power, I refuse to be the one to hold the power over a  
populous based on the notion of what I personally think makes someone  
worthy of said knowledge (ie, the checkbook to spend money).  Perhaps I'm  
an ideological person, but I want EVERYONE to be able to access this system  
(even if they don't hav a computer, ie the public terminal lab idea), not  
just the elite few.

Chris
--
| Chris Petrilli
| petrilli@nextover.pe.utexas.edu, petrilli@gnu.ai.mit.edu
| All opinions are my own, if they even belong to anyone.


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