HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ian@vnet.ibm.com (Ian Stirling)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 10:04:04 BST
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: Does anyone have French OS/2 prices?
Reply-To: ian@vnet.ibm.com
Organization: IBM UK Laboratories Ltd, Hursley, England
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not those of IBM
News-Software: UReply 3.0
            <92098.162455TURGUT@FRMOP11.BITNET>

In <92098.162455TURGUT@FRMOP11.BITNET> Turgut Kalfaoglu <TURGUT@FRMOP11.BITNET> writes:
>This is the wrong forum, but I just arrived to France (well, it has
>been 5 months!), what do European people do for software? France seems
>very expensive on software (IBM software seems to be reasonably
>priced). I hear other European countries are so too. Do you order
>stuff directly from USA, or do you fork() out the money for it?
>
>Just curious. Don't want to may more than I absolutely need to.
>Thanks, -turgut
>
<1992Apr5.123423.23884

Turgut, generally us British people just pay exorbitant (sp?) amounts of
money for our software.

I have in the past used IBM colleagues based in the States to order
software for me.  My best example of a saving was when I upgraded from
Turbo C Version 1 to the Version 2 Professional Pack.  A colleague in
the states ordered this for me.  It was delivered directly from Borland
to my home address in UK.  Cost was 88.00 pounds.  In the UK the price
was about 285.00 pounds.

Recently a couple of US companies have started advertising in the UK
computer press.  You can order software directly from the US.  Cost
seems to be a bit cheaper than in UK, but the companies are still chargin
way over the US price.

Cheers,
Ian Stirling                      Internet: ian@vnet.ibm.com
CICS/ESA Systems Facilities         Bitnet: ian at vnet
IBM UK Labs Ltd, Hursley, England IBMIPnet: ian@stirling.hursley.ibm.com

Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not those of IBM
From: sip1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Timothy F. Sipples)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: Logitech Trackman
Date: 5 Apr 92 16:44:22 GMT
Reply-To: sip1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Dept. of Econ., Univ. of Chicago

In article <14563@vela.acs.oakland.edu> dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Dan Cogswell) writes:
>I'm sure you're all sick of this "Will 2.0 support such-and-such???" but
>I'm going to ask anyhow. :-)
>Will  2.0 support the Logitech Trackman?  Do I need a special driver
>from Logitech?  

Yes, and no.  The Logitech Trackman does not have a completely foreign
command set.  It emulates another popular mouse, and you can choose
that mouse's driver when you install.
From: mcdonald@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Doug McDonald)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: Norton desktop on OS/2-WIN shell?
Date: 12 Apr 92 16:00:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: ux1.1992Apr12.160008.23716
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana


In article <1992Apr12.054811.4075@cco.caltech.edu> hacker@cco.caltech.edu (Jonathan Bruce Hacker) writes:
>MXD118@psuvm.psu.edu (Spiro the Spiny Goldfish) writes:
>
>
>>This is not really an undelete facility like you would see in Norton.  It
>>operates more like the Macintosh trashcan - basically if you have it turned
>>on,  your deleted files are just copied to a directory and only junked either
>>when you "empty" it,  or when it runs out of space.
>
>In a multi-tasking OS like unix (and presumably OS/2) undeleting
>a file like you would see in Norton is almost impossible because
>other running apps tend to overwrite the data very quickly.  


That is simply not true!!! It might be true on a multiUSER system,
but a single user multitasking system is little different from 
plain DOS. In any case it works fine under Windows. I see no reason why
an undelete would not work under OS/2 on a FAT partition. I have no
idea about HPFS, but it could be designed so that this could work.

Doug McDonald
From: asher@qtp.ufl.edu (Robert L. Asher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: OS/2, interupts, DMA calls, Extended Services
Date: 16 Apr 92 14:40:41 GMT
Organization: Quantum Theory Project, University of Florida


I have seen several statements in this group which seem to directly conflict.

OS/2 2.0 is not interupt driven OS.  OS/2 uses irq7, which conflicts with 
Soundblaster cards, for printer control.

OS/2 can run programs which make extensive use of DMA (ie wing commander)
OS/2 will probably require some sort of device driver to handle DMA port calls.
(in DOS shells)

Which of the above are correct?  If I have to rewrite DOS code which uses
interupts and direct memory access via port calls with OS/2 how can I do it?
Presently the code I have is written in Assembly and C.  How different is 
assembly written for DOS from OS/2?  
I quess I need to know which of the extended programs will I need or if the 
future release of BC++ for OS/2 (which borland assures me is coming) handle
all of the above with no need for the IBM "seperate packages".

Thanks in advance.
-- 
Robert L. Asher          | Probable impossibilities are to be preferred to 
Department of Chemistry  | improbable possibilities.  Aristotle
University of Florida    | All that we see or seem 
asher@qtp.ufl.edu        | Is but a dream within a dream. Poe
From: feustel@netcom.com (David Feustel)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: Does OS/2 2.0 support Bernoulli drives
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:56:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.!hsj0qf.feustel
Organization: DAFCO: OS/2 Software Support & Consulting

rodgers@engcon.marshall.ltv.com (KMRODGERS) writes:

>The subject line says is all: Is support for Bernoulli Boxes (specifically,
>the 44 meg internal drives) included in OS/2 2.0?  I don't need to boot from
>the Bernoulli, but it constitutes a primary part of my system and I _cannot_
>run OS/2 until it has Bernoulli support.

Iomega is supposed to have a beta version of a v 2.0 driver. In the
mean time I access my Bernoulli drives via a dos session booted with
Bernoulli device drivers installed.
-- 
David Feustel N9MYI, 1930 Curdes Ave, Fort Wayne, IN 46805. (219)482-9631
= Candidate Bush wouldn't recognize principle if he were standing upon it =
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: os2 and dos both single tasking?
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 20:28:44 GMT

Jyri.Virkki@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Jyri Virkki) writes:
>This brings the following question: Can I do (in OS/2) something like:

>> bcc my_huge_program &
>> qmodem			(gotta try to keep up with news!)

>In other words can I do all my multitasking from a single text window, or
>would I need to open 2 windows, and do the compile in one and start qm
>in the other?

use the DETACH command, as in

C:> DETACH bcc my_huge_program > output
-- 
This sentence contains ten words, eighteen syllables, and sixty-four letters.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: duffy@theory.chem.ubc.ca (Pat Duffy)
Subject: Bigger fonts for SofTerm?
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 10:14:07 GMT

Hi All!

I finally got SofTerm to run, and it does so pretty well - file transfers 
seem to work and everything.  My one complaint with it and the one thing that
may keep me using Telix from a DOS session is the font selection.  Even
the biggest font at 1024x768 (gotta love these ATI cards :-) is too small for
me to see (or at least see comfortably).  

Is there a way to get more and bigger fonts (than the two provided) out of it?
It's a fairly neat program otherwise.
-- 
Patrick Duffy, E-Mail:  duffy@theory.chem.ubc.ca
 
"I wouldn't believe in anything if it weren't for my lucky astrology mood
watch."  - Steve Martin
From: Bob_Frankston@frankston.com
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: ATM
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:00:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: world.9204162113.AA10035

Windows and OS/2 seem to have different interpretations of information in the 
AFM (or PFM) files.  For example, I've got a GillSans that contains:
     FontName GillSans
     FullName Gill Sans
     FamilyName Gill Sans
Windows sees "GillSans" and OS/2 sees "Gill Sans" in apps.  What is really 
going on.  Have I installed things wrong?  Are the ATMs incompatible?
From: HAN@FRECP12.BITNET (Jay Thierry HAN)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: OS/2 Install locks my system, help!
Date: 5 Apr 92 05:26:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: FRECP12.92096.012652HAN
 <1992Apr4.202748.23599@midway.uchicago.edu>
Organisation: ECP-Paris France

I've had a similar problem on beta copies of OS/2 2.0 (esp. 6.177h).
The solution (there is one!) is to diskcopy the disks first, before
installing them. I experienced problems with disk 5, but I think it
stems from the same cause: disk formatting.

Usually, beta copies aren't made with the reliable bulk-copy machines,
but either by semi-automated means, or even "by hand" for second-hand
copies. The install program (and OS/2 in general) seems particularly
sensitive to different floppy drive makes.

Hope this helps.

                                                      Jay
From: ohoward@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Todd Howard)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Help Requested
Date: 8 Apr 1992 13:26:17 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

I'm looking for a good review (unbiased) that sums up os2/2.0's 
strengths and weaknesses (both promised, and if possible, delivered).
Does anyone know if such an article exists, and if so where?

Todd
-- 
 "The statistics on death are in, and they're pretty convincing.  One out
  of every one people die."   -Unknown

Todd O. Howard (ohoward@matt.ksu.ksu.edu)
From: "bradley grigor" <bradley.grigor@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: restoring icons??
Date: 9 Apr 92 08:54:28 EST
Reply-To: "bradley grigor" <bradley.grigor@canrem.com>
Distribution: comp
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

I need a tip on restoring icons in program groups under OS/2 1.3.
I have installed the Windows Library for OS/2 (WLO v1.1) and the
associated Windows desk accessories.  After initial installation,
these programs show representative icons in the various Desktop
Manager program groups that I've set up.

However, if I restore the hard drive from a backup tape, the
icons for the WLO apps (and these apps _only_) revert to the
simple [PM] icon.

I use a Colorado 120 internal tape unit and their Jumbo software
version 2.50 after BOOT/DOS to make backups and restore them. The
"EA DATA . SF" file has been restored and CHKDSK shows no lost
extended attributes.  All other OS/2 apps have the proper icons,
e.g. CPU Meter and PM View.  Only the WLO apps have lost their
icons.  The "Refresh Icons - F5" function in File Manager doesn't
restore them either.

Does anyone know what's going on?

...bag   Newmarket, Ontario, Canada  | RelayNet: ->CRS (Public Key: 7596)
         UUCP: canrem!bradley.grigor | Internet: bradley.grigor@canrem.com
---
  DeLuxe 1.21 #4613  If pills don't work, try rope.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: ry01@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ROBERT YUNG)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: HPFS question...
Date: 12 Apr 92 01:50:48 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

Does HPFS "self-unfrag"??? I remeber reading a long while ago that some new
file system actually checks itself for fragmentation and tries to correct it.
Is this true for HPFS or was I reading about Microsoft's "improved" file
system for NT????
                                            Thanks!
-- 
 (%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%)
  |  Off-campus address...                                          |
  |     first alley down this street, left refrigerator box. :-)    |
  |                                                                 |
   \_________Bobby Yung_______RY01@Lehigh.Edu________X-0471________/
From: bsmith@ecst.csuchico.edu (Charles Bennett Smith)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: Manuals with OS/2 V.2 as shipped.
Date: 9 Apr 92 01:37:23 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico

In article <1992Apr8.174221.14918@ryn.mro4.dec.com> anderson@allvax.enet.dec.com (Dave Anderson) writes:
>
>I strongly believe that every user should have easy access to the full set of
>documentation.  By far the cheapest way of doing this is to make it all 
>available on-line, so this should be part of the base product.  (I don't have
>a copy of the GA release yet, but I believe that this is already being done.
>Great!)

Yes, all docs should be available on-line. 

>
>There are a few manuals (e.g., the installation guide) that must be provided to
>all purchasers in hard-copy form.  (Those who want to install on multiple
>systems should be able to buy right-to-copy licenses without being required to
>buy any new media or manuals.) 
>
>The entire documentation set should be available in hard-copy form at extra
>cost.  Each manual should be available individually, so that users can buy
>only what they need; but also having packaged sets of commonly-requested
>manuals at less than the sum of the individual prices is certainly reasonable.
>
>There should be an easy way for any user to print arbitrary small sections of
>the online documentation at no extra charge.  This abiliity is sometimes
>extremely useful, and individual users (and probably many business users) 
>typically won't have the resources available to print more than small amounts
>of information.  (The technical issues involved in enforcing 'small amounts'
>are left as an exercise... :-)

Why "enforce" anything?  Sun supplies all of their docs on a CD-ROM, and they
give the users the rights to laser-print any and/or all docs.  If you already
have paid for the docs (on-line) shouldn't you have the right to view them on
paper as well as on screen?

>
>There should be a way for users with the necessary resources to print all or 
>major parts of the on-line documentation, but it's reasonable to charge them
>something for doing so.

There should not be a charge for this.  After all, it is MY laser printer, MY
paper, MY toner, and MY time that is being used to make the printed copies.
IBM (or any other computer manufacturer for that matter) is not doing the
work to produce the printed version, so why should I pay them for it (unless
ofcourse you are proposing that they reimburse me for the printing costs)?

>
>My $.02,
>
>	Dave


-- Bennett

-- 

Lassen Research                                   Bennett Smith
300 Salem Street                                  bsmith@ecst.csuchico.edu
Chico California  95928                           (916) 343-6421
From: easyrob@cs.utexas.edu (Robert Depew Reynolds)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: OK, does *ANYONE* have OS/2 2.0 GA?
Date: 12 Apr 1992 23:44:54 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: coltexo.cs.utexas.edu

It is my understanding that most of the WINOS2 code in GA is Windows 3.1 code.
So we may not see the great speed increase that some expect with the WIN3.1
compatability CSD in May or June whenever it is coming.

Robert D. Reynolds
easyrob@cs.utexas.edu

Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: bgm@cray.com (Bert Moshier)
Subject: Re: IBM about to open their TOOLDISK (Great news !)
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 7 Apr 92 22:06:45 CDT

In article <92095.005027RONY@awiwuw11.wu-wien.ac.at> FLATSCHER Rony <RONY@awiwuw11.wu-wien.ac.at> writes:
>At the launch of OS/2 in New York on March 31st, Mr. Cannavino
>reportedly said that lawyers of IBM checked the issues involved in
>opening the TOOLDISK and that they said that if the authors within
>IBM agree the IBM INTERNAL USE ONLY goodies could be flooded into
>the nets !
>
>Anyone know about plans to release the first IBM OS/2-goodies ?
>
>---rony

Rony:

Yes, the program is (I forgot) ... IAIsomething.

Basically, it allows IBM employees to write OS/2 programs and submit them
to be freeware.  IBM retains the copywrite and doesn't have to provide
support.  Support occurs if the original developer desires to support the
program (I don't use the word product!).
 
Currently, IBM is searching and signing up existing programs.  Release should
occur in early May.

BTW, I know IBM does not like have specific employees "honored."  It is true
to bring a marketing program to life requires many many people.  This program
would not have life except for many many people signing up to support it.

Yet, one IBM employee does deserve recognition for this program!

WE HAVE DAVE WHITTLE TO THANK FOR THIS PROGRAM!  His hard work in shepparding
this idea through IBM needs recognition!  I agree it would not exist except
for the outstanding work of the programmers, managers, marketers and other
IBM employees.  Dave, though, brought these people together for the benefit
of IBM customers who are not Fortune 500 members, who don't have SEs who provide
these tools on an AS IS BASIS, etc.

We can also thank the people on this forum including the IBMers.  Dave needed
our input, input from Fidonet and CIS to bring this program to life.  Until
customers call for something it won't happen!  Dave used our input and comments
to show the need.  In a way we were his Sheppard's staff.  THANKS TO ALL OF YOU!
JOB WELL DONE!

Bert Moshier
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: karu@nevada.edu (N.H.A. KARUNARANTE)
Subject: Re: Idiots at the Magazines
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 02:23:07 GMT

In article <1992Apr4.212909.16008@cs.mcgill.ca> becap@cs.mcgill.ca (Brian CAPSON) writes:
>In article <1992Apr3.181048.13119@tc.cornell.edu> sanjeev@cheme.tn.cornell.edu writes:
>>>In article <1992Apr1.164624.24433@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>>>>In article <1992Mar24.064855.14541@athena.mit.edu> reynaldo@athena.mit.edu (Rey Villarreal) writes:
>>>>>I have lost all respect for John Dvorak, John Dickinson, and Jim
>>>>>Seymour.
>>>>
>>>>How about this one:  In the May issue of PC Mag, John Dvorak writes a
>>>>list of reasons why "OS/2 has failed".  Past tense.  Amazing how he
>>>>considers a program to have failed before the release date.
>>>>Especially when you consider that articles for the May issue were
>>>>probably written sometime in February.  And then he does nothing more
>>>>than re-hash the same thing he wrote two years ago about OS/2 1.2...
>>>>-- 
>>>>David Charlap                   Q:"Where do these stairs go?"
>>>>dic5340@hertz.njit.edu          A:"They go up"
n>>>>----------------------------
>>>
>>
>>Here is something I have wondered about. How many of these "Windows
>>Rah Rah " guys have purchased microsoft stock and have vested interest
>>in promoting microsoft products? Does this constitute conflict of
>>interest ?
>>    sanjeev
>
>So what? The point is moot. They could have just as easily bought IBM
>stock and gone the other way. I suppose if we take your argument as
>true, we can conclude that they probably bought the one that they
>thought had a better chance of succeeding. Makes sense.
>
>- Brian

Well Brian,
Can you say the phrase "CONFLICT OF INTEREST?" Those editors and
columnists who have a vested interest in the success of a product
should reveal it along with their reviews. That is, if they are
honest, ethical, and the review is presented as an independent
one.

Just my two cents.
Karu.

karu@nevada.edu
From: davidh@towers.rn.com (David Holland)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Paradise & SVGA ON
Summary: A minor problem
Keywords: Paradise SVGA OS/2 2.0
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:50:56 GMT
Organization: Small System Specialists

Hi! Its me again ;) 

Ummm, I may of found a fairly significant bug in OS/2 2.0.

I mentioned in a earlier post, I've upgraded my paradise card to 512K.
So hey, I figured I'd test it out under OS/2 2.0 and Cshow. Now I 
THOUGHT all I'd need to do was type SVGA ON in the Dos screen and 
then run Cshow. It works just fine to a point. I can switch to 
the PM screen and back to the image just fine. However when I 
press ESC to get out of the image, and back to the text screen
under Cshow. It locks the machine up. Locks it up quite nicely too..
I get to hit the ol' reset button to get back out of it. 

Anyone got any more great suggestions? (pleease :) 

I tried looking up SVGA in the online help, however I didn't 
find to much of anything.

Thanks!

David Holland
davidh@towers.rn.com
From: sip1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Timothy F. Sipples)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: DeskJet too slow
Keywords: Oh no! He's doing it again
Date: 8 Apr 92 21:32:56 GMT
Reply-To: sip1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Dept. of Econ., Univ. of Chicago

In article <1992Apr8.211156.1887@news.nd.edu> Cook.14@nd.edu (R. Kelley Cook) writes:
>|> Last night I tried to use Word for Windoze under OS/2, 304e beta.
>|> Printing seems to be crawling (15 minutes per page :-(.
>|> I use a HP DeskJet 500. How do I speed up printing ?
>|> The same happened when I tried to print the REXX online docs.
>|> There is a checkbox for printing in graphics (nice) mode.
>|> Checking it stops printing instantly.
>|> What's going on ?
>Try changing the Port in the Windows Printer Setup to LPT1.OS2
>instead of LPT1 worked wonders for my LaserJet IIIp

A great idea -- very important.  The installation should have done it
for you, but perhaps it missed.

Also note that you can use any Windows 3.0 printer driver under
Win-OS/2, so you can always try swapping drivers.
-- 
Timothy F. Sipples       Keeper of the OS/2 Frequently Asked Questions
sip1@ellis.uchicago.edu  List, available via anonymous ftp from
Dept. of Economics       128.123.35.151, directory pub/os2/faq, or via
Univ. of Chicago  60637  netmail from LISTSERV@BLEKUL11.BITNET.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: becap@cs.mcgill.ca (Brian CAPSON)
Subject: Re: free os/2?
Organization: SOCS, McGill University, Montreal, Canada
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 21:07:07 GMT

In article <n-tjcmq.rcain@netcom.com> rcain@netcom.com (Robert Cain) writes:
> steveha@microsoft.com (Steve Hastings) writes:
> : 
> : > I never did understand the problems that microsoft & IBM had in
> : > working together.
> : 
> 
> I was told the breaking point came over IBM's insistance on REXX as OS/2's
> procedural language and Gates' insistance on what?  Basic of course.
> Probably untrue but plausable given Gates' weak ego.
> -- 
> Bob Cain    rcain@netcom.com   408-358-2007
> 
> "There are some strings.  They're just not attached."
>                                                     Victoria Roberts

I heard that it was because Microsoft got tired of the shitty code that IBMers  
were always shlepping off on them, and their insistance on special OS/2  
capabilities for their PS/2's. After the DOS 4.0 debacle, I'd say it was only a  
matter of time anyway, and in my opinion a welcome move. Now we can have a  
little competition in the PC OS market. 

- Brian
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu (John H. Kim)
Subject: Cosmetic bug in settings notebook
Organization: Harvey Mudd College
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 01:33:06 GMT


I was going to email this to the first IBM person I spotted, but
I decided it's pretty important for what it does.

If you click on settings on an folder, one of the tabs in the
settings notebook is "Include".  "Include" has 2 pages, the
second of which lets you do lots of things to decide which
files you want to include when you open the folder.  But the
"1 of 2" and "2 of 2" that's supposed to appear above the
right and left arrows aren't there.
-- 
John H. Kim                 | (This space to be filled when I
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu | think of something very clever 
uunet!jarthur!jokim         | to use as a disclaimer)
From: rcain@netcom.com (Robert Cain)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: PC Mag response to OS/2 coverage Q
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:33:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.0-tj!b.rcain
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Re: Mac, Amiga, Nintendo, etc

Isn't the title "PC Magazine"?  They make no pretense about that. The pretense
is that they really cover the PC.
-- 
Bob Cain    rcain@netcom.com   408-358-2007

"There are some strings.  They're just not attached."
                                                    Victoria Roberts
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc