From: beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity,talk.abortion,soc.men,soc.women
Subject: Re: Guilty?
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:17:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.Bw2qwy.Iyy

In article <1992Oct13.172135.15866@advtech.uswest.com> steven@jaynes ( Steve Novak) writes:
>> = (Don Beaver) writes:
>>> = Larry Margolis writes:
>>>> = (Don Beaver) writes:
>>>>> = Larry Margolis writes:
>>>> > = The Beave:
>>>> >> = Janis Cortese wrote the following on soc.women (moderated):
>
>>>> >> ===   If I had a kid and someone threatened it, I'd slit their
>>>> >> ===   throat wide open and drink their blood with a smile in my face.
>
>My, that conjures up a rather graphic image, doesn't it?

[comparison of Will Steeves statements to Janis Cortese's]

>>What about "throwing salt in the wounds" -- ie., mental cruelty?
>
>He needs help for that.  It's really none of his business.  If he
>doesn't like the woman, or her actions, he need only leave.  

Say that to battered wives.  Say it to the governors who pardoned them
for murdering their husbands.


>(BTW, when did you turn from a t.a. fence straddler into a pro-life
>apologist?)

Considering that the favorite occupation of t.a. writers seems to
be shooting fish in a barrel (blasting anyone who doesn't share the
opinion that a fetus is anything more than a cancerous parasite  as being
a member of the religious right, and blasting those religious objectors
brave or unknowing enough to say anything as having no rights to 
their opinions), I hoped to see some more intelligent discussion
on a.a.i, especially about balancing rights among various parties.

Oh well.  I don't read t.a. anyway, for that reason.


>>>> considering why she might have waited a year to "throw salt in the wounds,"
>
>>>Since you seem to have an outspoken agenda, it's no great surprise that
>>>you assume she waited a year in order to throw salt in the wounds, rather
>>>than simply not telling him because she knew it would upset him (or because
>>>she knew that (a hypothetical) he was deranged and actually *would* try to
>>>kill her if he found out), and it happened to come out a year later.
>
>>I assume no such thing, even having heard that she made death threats.
>>
>>It's clear that there are a lot of possibilities.  I'd give her the
>>benefit of the doubt if we were discussing why she would have waited 
>>a year and whether we should regard it as a despicable act.  
>
>Ain't you sweet?  Whatever her reasons, it's her body and decision.  Not
>Steeves.  If Steeves found that communication between the two of them
>was at an unacceptable (to him) state, then it's time to leave that
>relationship.  I fail to see the problem.

You seem to have misread this: I'm referring to her motivation for
waiting a year and then telling him, not to the abortion.

You raise an interesting point: how is a husband to know if the
communication in a marriage is in an unacceptable state, so that he
can exercise this "right" to leave the relationship?


>>At the same time, I'd give Will the benefit of the doubt, especially
>>given that he consistently tries to publicize the trauma of abortion
>>on men.  If you had read his earlier writings, you might have guessed
>>that his explicit description came from a deeply felt agony over abortion
>>and the ignoring or mistreatment of men in regard to abortion.  
>
>Since "men" don't have to carry a fetus to term, and since "men" aren't
>the ones being faced with forced birth from you turkeys, then I'll
>venture that Steeves' "deeply felt agony" is misplaced and unwarranted -
>unless you wanna start sanctifying the fetus again.

Circles again.  Men are forced to carry a child to adulthood: 18 years of
indenture.  Men also have feelings and beliefs -- at least some men do.
They aren't necessarily the same as yours.  Why do you have such a 
hard time recognizing that?

My only guess is that your apparent belief that fetuses are absolutely
trivial non-entities must blind you to the idea that other people, 
men and women alike, might not think so.

Flip one bit in your approach and you could be a member of your
much-feared stereotypical religious right.

The only "turkey" suggesting "forced birth" was you.

Don
-- 
beaver@cs.psu.edu                       Opinions from the PC-challenged
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity,talk.abortion,soc.men,soc.women