From: hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman)
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Date: 11 Jan 93 17:07:28 GMT
Followup-To: comp.os.msdos.programmer
Organization: negligable

In article <1993Jan8.072703.3305%kgphuann@Uz.nthu.edu.tw> kgphuann@Uz.nthu.edu.tw (Kho-Guan Phuann (LING G794709) TEL.(035)715131-4888) writes:
>daled@cadence.com (Dale DePriest) writes:
>> ...... 
>> The discussion mentions Borland C++.  You may not know that this is
>> also known as Turbo C/C++.  The Turbo version is adequate to learn on
>                              ?????????????????????????????????????????
>> and is quite a bit cheaper.  The full Borland version provides a full
>> environment for professional programmers.  The Turbo C can often be
>> had inexpensively in the used market, going rate about $25, by people
>> that are moving to C++.  Version 2 is excellent and supports all that
>> you need to get going.
>> ......

Turbo C++ and Borland C++ are NOT the same product!  That is like
saying a Ford Festiva and a Ford Mustang are the same thing.  (Ok,
so there's probably a better ford than a Mustang, but I'm not a big
car person -- I hope people get the right idea here)

>	Sorry, I can not but complain here about the poor documents 
>Turbo C++ for DOS provides since the product seems to be overly
>valued. I bought Turbo C++ for DOS 3.0 by an educational discount.
>The retailer told me the package is exactly the same as that 
>without discount. Yes, it is *quite a bit cheaper*, but I am rather

The Turbo C++ you bought at a discount is the exact same package
as the Turbo C++ you could have bought off the shelf without the
discount.  That is NOT the same as Borland C++, which you could
probably have purchased at an educational discount (note: I am
not connected w/ education or Borland, so I cannot promise this,
but I see no reason it shouldn't be available with an educational
discount).

>disappointed at finding out that there is only one user's manual 
>in it. They try to include everything in that book, including 
>several hundred pages of C/C++ language tutorial which, though
>well written, occupie much space. And the most important infor-
>mation I need such as the IDE, which is appreciated by everybody,
>is only provided with very few descriptions. It is usually referring
>the reader to on-line help, but on-line help can only serve well as a 
>reminiscent reference. As a new Turbo C++ user, I need step by step
>tutorial on all the menu items. I did try to get help from on-line
>help, but its sections always assume the knowledge of each other
>circularly. I am always stuck in it.  
>
>  Some days ago, I borrowed Borland C++ 2.0 from a teacher, and was 

Did they get it at an educational discount?  <g>

>impressed by the many manuals packed with it. From the manuals, I 
>learned some very basic technique of using IDE. Yes, money speaks
>loudest. But isn't it a compiler vendor's obligation to instruct
>its customers to use its product, especially use its specific 
>features, in an understandable way?

Yes, but teaching how to use the compiler does not entail
teaching the language.  Many people do not quite understand 
this.  When you buy that Ford Festiva, they don't give you
a driving class to help you get your drivers license.  Same
thing here.  You are supposed to know the language already,
or get that information from an appropriate source.  Their
only obligation is to teach you to use the compiler.  Setting
memory models, documenting the library routines, etc.

>pleasure, while I learn Turbo C++ with frustration.
>
>                                               KhoGuan PhuaN
>                                        kgphuann@uz.nthu.edu.tw

I think your frustration is caused by unrealistic expectations.

I would recommend the Borland C++ package over the Turbo C++
package for anyone who is serious about using C++.  The Turbo C++
package is a low-cost minimal package, useful if you are already
taking a C++ course.  The Borland C++ package is much fancier
with more documentation, additional libraries, and better (faster,
better optimization) compiler.  I also think that the Turbo C++
is only for DOS, or only for Windows (one or the other...) but
the Borland C++ can create both types of applications.


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It's not the way that you say it	|
when you do those things to me,		|	-Richard Hartman	
it's more the way you really mean it	|	hartman@uLogic.COM
when you tell me what will be.		|
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.programmer