Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Hating Men with Full Force
From: rivero@mdcbbs.com
Date: 2 Sep 92 11:53:48 GMT
 <1992Aug27.120558.12106@ultb.isc.rit.edu>,<1992Aug28.104209.1@mdcbbs.com> <1992Aug31.212334.5955@ultb.isc.rit.edu>
Organization: Electronic Data Systems, Unigraphics Division, Cypress CA
Nntp-Posting-User: cuy

In article <1992Aug31.212334.5955@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Person in flux) writes:
> In article <1992Aug28.104209.1@mdcbbs.com>, rivero@mdcbbs.com writes:
> 
>>  While it may be true that men still earn more money (after all, they work
>>more hours), in joint households, the woman traditionally controls the
>>discretionary spending, a fact not lost on the advertisers.
>>[deleted]
>>  So, while it's partly correct to place blame for the male bash on
>>extremists such as Andrea Dworkin, a major portion of the cause for
>>"mainstream" male bashing lies with the advertisers, and WON'T go away until
>>the networks start to see men controlling the discretionary spending. Then
>>those same TV programs will turn the "bash" in the opposite direction.
> 
> My take on advertisers viewing women as controlling discretionary spending
> relates directly to the *fact* that working women work the equivalent of a full
> extra month each year in the household (reference lost; will try to find) doing
> cleaning, laundry, cooking, grocery shopping, whatnot and therefore needing to
> purchase the materials with which to do this extra labor.

  According to the United States Department of Labor, full time working women
work an average of 8 hours per week less than full time working men.
The majority of men also contribute to the household chores, usually focusing
on tasks which exceed the strength of the woman, and those men don't require
payment for their contributions; it's part of the family responsability.

  However, if you feel you should be paid for doing the housework, I suggest you
hire out as a maid and learn what the current market value for such unskilled
labor is.


  They also may be
> watching Oprah and Geraldo, but they most definitely are doing the household
> chores.  Sure, there are thousands of men out there pulling their weight with
> household chores, but they are not the rule. 

  My experience is that they are. There is also a certain tendancy for many 
women to take what men do very much for granted. Many women used to complain
about husbands who took their cooking for granted. It was always there with
no problems, therefore "transparent". Likewise, many men are justifiably
upset when their partners don't appreciate the effort men expend, not only in
the extra 8 hours per week worked, but over keeping the cars running and fixing
the appliances, re-roofing the home and other carpentry and plumbing, all to 
save the household money.


> If you are trying to imply that
> this discretionary spending control is being abused by women during the course
> of fulfilling their "wifely" duties with minimal support (other than financial)
> from their husbands, how can you blame these women? 

  I would blame these women as I would blame a man who decides to
physically abuse his wife because she refuses to do any housework at all.
It's a totally inappropriate response.

  That's if I _HAD_ blamed the women. If you re-read what I wrote, I was
shifting some of the blame FROM women onto the advertising industry, who
will mindfuck anyone for a price without regard to race, creed, color,
or gender.


> 
> I'm not endorsing this sort of financial retaliation; I find it reprehensible,
> and I also dislike advertisements that play up on this (or any other sort of
> manipulation).  I do think, however, that you can see the inequities in this
> situation:  men feel ripped off in their wallets, women feel ripped off in
> other areas in their lives, no one is happy.  

  Men feel ripped off in other areas in addition to their wallets. The 
media coverage which holds up female victims of domestic violence while
ignoring male victims of domestic violence is one. The clear
anti-male bias in the fmily court system is another. Most family men
I know are sick and tired of having their wives use them as a threat
on the kids, as in,"Just you WAIT until your father get's home! He's going to
rip off your heads and pour swimming pool acid down your NECK!". It's
rough working an 8-10 hour day, then walking into your own home only
to see your own offspring (the reason you went to college nd built
a high paying career in the first place) cringe before your eyes.



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|  Michael Rivero rivero@mdcbbs.com  Middle-Aged Mutant Ninja Animator   |
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|                    When 911 won't work,  .357 will!                    |
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