HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (a.j.s. nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Persona (was Re: Travel,Persona)
Organization: University of Toronto
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 20:01:57 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.172221.12245@agora.uucp> trifid@agora.uucp (Roadster Racewerks) writes:

>And on a different aspect of this, I heard a wonderful solution to the unease
>we often feel in trying to get into persona, form a former king of Caid, who
>addressed our heraldry class. He mentioned that one might hold small persona
>dinner parties among close friends. Very small groups, relaxed atmosphere, one's
>own friends/house...less pressure. Try to stay in persona the whole night.
>Sounds very instructive to me, and fun, as well! If I ever get the hovel clean,
>I'm going to host one...

This is the sort of thing the Elizabethan Camp tries to address, by combining
personas in a compatible environment, including temporary personas adopted
just for an Elizabethan week.  It is VERY hard to do at SCA events, but Pennsic
is so big that it works there.

The key things are that 1.  everyone adopts personae from the same time & place
(1592 London) and 2.  the camp is divided into period and non-period sections.

This is not an advert for the Elizabethan Camp at Pennsic.

Aryk Nusbacher

From: Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Disenchantment
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1992 19:22:52 -0500

 For those who have been looking for polite ways to tell people that
 what they want to talk about with you is OOP and therefore you don't
 want to talk about it at the moment, I've thought up a new technique.
 Tell them that you wouldn't know of such things, but have heard tell
 that it exists in the far-off Kingdom of Mundania... where dwells your
 cousin, that you might be able to introduce to them sometime.
From: jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: real magic
Date: 17 Apr 92 15:22:02 GMT
Organization: The Internet


Dorothea writes:

[stuff about a person who claimed to be a real magician]

I think I know of the person you're talking about; he wrote a book
which is called "Real Magic".  It's essential tripe.  

>Cast horoscopes, but only for a fee, and with a few muttered asides
>about what nonsense it all is.

Actually, I think that those who cast horoscopes did _not_ mutter to
their _clients_ about what tripe horoscopes were.  After all, if Sir
So-and-so is paying you for what he thinks is something worthwhile,
it's best for business if you don't deter him from that belief....at
least, not in persona.  

BTW, I think it was Cardano who predicted the date of his death based
on astrology and, when the appointed date came around and finding
himself with not much to live for, killed himself.

Tio d'abaco
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mcs@unlinfo.unl.edu (michael straatmann)
Subject: Re: M-word: new ruling from Hilary
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Distribution: world, na, usa, local
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 00:12:31 GMT

In <mjc.702743348@NL.CS.CMU.EDU> mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio) writes:

>The following column, from the East Kingdom Seneschal, is excerpted with
>permission from the May Pikestaff.  (As it has a bearing on the membership
>question, I asked permission to post it here early.)

>    Now seneschals:  In her last letter to me, Mistress
>    Hilary has clarified a point in Corpora.  As autoctrats are de
>    facto officers of a group while they are planning and running their
>    event, autocrats are now subject to the same restrictions that
>    officers are.  Effective immediately local seneschals are
>    responsible for making sure that all autocrats of their group's
>    events are PAID members of the SCA, Inc.

>Personal opinion: this is thoroughly unreasonable.  The local seneschal
>is already responsible for the legal aspects of events; why should autocrats
>also need to be members?    I hope this decision comes under review when
>the BoD deals with the membership question.  Sure, you can get around this
>by having an "autocrat of record" (who is a paid member) who has nothing
>to do with the actual running of the event, but why should we have to play
>these games?  I would guess that about half of the autocrats in our group
>aren't members; now we're going to make them pay $12 to the corporation
>in order to be allowed to volunteer their services in a job that most people
>won't do?

>Ellisif Flakkari
>East Kingdom Chronicler

Greetings unto the most noble Ellisif Flakkari, from Gospodin Mikhail
Nikolaevich Kramolnikov come greetings and abasement.

It was precisely this question which arose last weekend at a Royal University
session in the Calontir Shire of Mag Mor.  The class dealt with the interaction
of the person with the Corporate structure.  Alyson Throckmorton, corporate 
secretary, pointed out that the reason that autocrats must be members is 
inherent in their ability to make contractual obligations for the SCA, Inc.
Protective measures. 

In service,
Gospodin Mikhail
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: czech naming practices
Date: 14 Apr 92 19:05:04 GMT
Distribution: world, na, usa, local
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM

Greetings from Arval!  Discussing Czech naming practices, Pawel Ptasznik
wrote: 

> In my experience, the Slavic languages have changed little since period 
> times. If you can read, say Polish (Almost identical to Czech and Slovak),
> you can still read and understand ancient manuscripts. 
>    I would advise your friend to pick up a book of names in Czech, Slovak
> or Polish. In this way He would be able to pick a name and document it in
> one step. 

I advise considerable caution in this approach to naming in any period
language.  While it may be true that some languages are little-changed
since the Middle Ages, it does not follow that naming practices have also
remained the same; indeed, the opposite is almost invariably true.  I know
nothing about Czech naming in particular and only a little about naming in
any Slavic language, but assuming that anything has remained the same since
the Middle Ages without specific evidence to back you up is a very
dangerous approach to research.

Instead, I recommend approaching your study of Czech names by reading
histories and literature of your period and area.  If you can find a
scholarly treatment of medieval Czech names, please let me know; I would
expect that such works are most likely written in German.

If the original poster would like to contact me, I may be able to put him
in touch with one or two people in the College of Arms who will be able to
assist him.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Help With Fencing Tourney Administration.
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1992 12:25:26

Have you considered a Swiss Five tourney???  Each fighter fights at least 5 rounds (Ideally, they each fight everyone else, but not usually possible in a large list), then you rank them with Swiss Points on to determine the winner.  It isn't only who is undefeated, but who they defeated.... get someone locally to explain better.

You could also do a King of the Hill tourney, which puts one person on the field, they hold it until defeated.  Each defeated person goes to the end of the line.  I've seen them line fighters up by rank (which means that my Iris of Merit ranks me with our Dons, even tho it's an Arts award....makes life interesting..), or by fighting skill, or at random.  It's a combinaiton endurance and expertise tournament.  Disadvantage is that the fighters stay in armor for longer periods of time, can't really wander aw


ay to fight or warm up elsewhere since they'd be out of line then.  Advantage is everyone gets to fight more, and to a fighter in good shape -- I've seen one man last 17 fights, very impressive.  Usually there's either a time limit or a number of times the line cycles through.

Good luck with your tourneys!

-- Vashti/Steppes/Ansteorra


 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: withholding knowledge
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:58:25 GMT
Organization: PANIX - Public Access Unix Systems of NY


	I can hardly believe a teacher is expected to teach evertyhing she
knows about everything in an hour or two. If I teach a class, I intend to
stick to my lesson plan, and 'persona games' have nothing to do with it.
	I will not tie myself in a straitjacket and refuse to mention 
anything I am not going to discuss at length. Nothing exists in a vacuum.
If I teach a class on, say, 16th century bobbon lace, I will have to mention
something about needle lace, because the two forms influenced each other,
back and forth, for centuries. I do not have to drop everything and teach a
class on needlelace. You can't give a good grounding in any subject without
mentioning the things that influenced it and the things it, in turn, 
influenced. 
	If a teacher has mentioned something that intrigued you in class, but
did not go into detail, ask her about it after the class. She will happily
bend your ear, give you leads on sources, and answer questions. She may be
wishing she could have talked about it, but could not without stinting on
the subject at hand. Maybe she is teaching a class on that subject at another
Event. Just because you didn't hear it in class, doesn't mean you are to be
deprived of the knowledge for the rest of your natural life.
						-Ilaine

-- 
Liz Stokes         |    Ilaine's EZ-garb workshop:
Ilaine de Cameron  |
                   |    "First, take a sheep. Start with a small one ..."
ilaine@panix.com   |
From: christer@sue.komunity.se (Christer Romson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Bertram's Membership Letter
Date: 6 Apr 92 11:21:10 GMT
Organization: The Internet
X-Unparsable-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 12: 37 MET DST

Moreach:
> Are *any* of the BoD required to represent these [non-american] folk,
> much less be from the general localities in question?

I'd object to have a board member represent any kind of special interest
group (geographical or any other kind). The Board and its members should
represent all of the SCA. It's good (probably even essential) that the
board members have a collective experience of a wide variety of SCA
functions. And there is nothing wrong with designating contact persons for
kingdoms, corporate offices and commitees (as is done today). But required
special interest representatives on the board would be a Very Bad Idea!

There is currently an International Commitee headed by a board member
(Keith Cartmell the Canadian). I don't know exactly what it does. 

> rules that fit US laws and customs may not be completely workable for our
> native-born citzens of Drachenwald and Lochac

This is quite true! I don't think most people around here even know what a
waiver is, and would laugh the gate keeper in the face if they'd have to
fill in one... 
----------------------------  
 |\  | |   /|   | |\  \ | /   
 | \ | |  * |  /| | >  \|/    SCA: Lindorm Eriksson, Nordmark, Drachenw., East
 |   | |\   | / | |/    |     Mundane: Christer Romson, Stockholm, Sweden.
 |   | | \  |  /| |\    |     Email: christer@Sue.KOMunity.Se
 |   | |    | / | | \   |   
 |   | |    |   | |  \  |   
----------------------------
From: Stephen.Whitis@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Whitis)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Why call blows lightg
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 05:14:10

>  Yes, safe combat IS what we are after.  We are SIMULATING period
>combat, NOT period injuries.  If we had no avowed interest in making the
>simulation reasonably safe we would never get insurance I think.  You
>are engaging in wishful thinking otherwise, we are indeed trying to
>minimize the risk of any serious injury.

While safety is important, if safety were the only concern, we
would simply *Not Fight*!!!  As to insurance:  Are you trying to
say that we get insurance because we want to be safe?  Insurance
will help protect us from a lawsuit, not from a sword, spear, etc.

Stephen Whitis/Stephen of the Grove
Steppes/Ansteorra  FIDO 1:124/4229
___
 X MegaMail 2.10 #0:A mime is a terrible thing to waste!

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: SCA Digest V5 #187
Date: 13 Apr 92 18:52:19 GMT
Organization: The Internet


Geoffrey de la Iglesia asks:

>I am compiling a list of SCA references in fiction.  

A non-fictional (sorta) oblique reference to the SCA occurred in the
GURPS sourcebook "High Tech", where they mentioned the availability of
high quality medieval style armor, due to the influence of "various
recreation groups"...

Fujimoto
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cool Chain Mail?
Date: 16 Apr 92 13:36:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.1992Apr16.133605.26115
Reply-To: cpg3078@swuts.sbc.com (Michael A. Chance)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


>>reasonable splint mail, banded, or scale in a short amount of time, and
>>chain is a bitch but COOL to wear ...
>
>Chain is *not* cool to wear.  It holds any tunic/cloth you have
>underneath it down so that *it* can't allow air flow.
>
>Stephen Whitis/Stephen of the Grove

Ah, but you're in Ansteorra, where a T-tunic is heavy body armor.  In
the cooler climate of the North (and most especially Drachenwald and
Oerthe), for most of the year, maile is made cool simply by leaving it
outside over night.  Ah, the fond memories of tossing on a 20 degree
Fahrenheit shirt of mail to go fight a tourney.  Now, *THAT* will get
you moving in the morning! 8-)

Mikjal Annarbjorn
irl Michael A. Chance
Barony of Three Rivers, Calontir
Barony of Shattered Crystal, Midrealm
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: james@wrs.com (James Moore)
Subject: Re: Gaeliword for "valor"
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 19:39:34 GMT

rhodes@usafa.af.MIL (Capt Michael Rhodes) writes:

>     Taliesin the Wandering Bard sends greetings.  You are searching for a
>Gaelic word to translate "valor."  

It's been a while since I've done much reading in Irish, but I think
that "gaisce" is perhaps a more common word than any of these.
The pronunciation is something like "gawsh-kuh."

--
James Moore                                 | james@wrs.com
Wind River Systems                          | Alameda, California
      "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half meant
				nothing at all"
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: kenm@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (...Jose)
Subject: Re: Inquiry to Rialtans
Organization: Department of Computer Science, McMaster University
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 16:24:44 GMT

In article <60920408134706.0003900943PJ4EM@mcimail.com> 0003900943@mcimail.COM (Marla Lecin) writes:
>Greetings, from Jessa d'Avondale! 
>
>[in response to several messages on using Society manners in mundane
>situations...] 
>
>In my first year in the SCA, I went to Pennsic.  After a full week there,
>my garb no longer felt like a costume, but like *clothes*.  And the bowing
>and "my lady"ing must have really sunk in, because... 

	Without meaning to offend, may I say that "m'lady'-ing and
forsoothing and casual hand-kissing in non-SCA contexts really make
me cringe, but.... after Pennsic, I was constantly manoeveuring to 
a womans left when walking beside her (from having worn a sword on
my left side for most of the nine days, and having the lady walk on
my unarmed side).

			....Cinaed de Moray


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
".sig quotes are silly"|Kenneth C. Moyle          kenm@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca 
 - Kenneth C. Moyle    |Department of Biochemistry     MOYLEK@MCMASTER.BITNET 
                       |McMaster University       ...!uunet!mnetor!maccs!kenm 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mike@iotek.ns.ca
Subject: Re: Definitions, please
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 15:22:02 GMT


In his message of Mon, 13 Apr 92 15:27:01 GMT Master Arval Benicoeur writes:

 > A course was called a course, just like today.  I'm not sure of the origin
 > of "remove" in the SCA sense; perhaps it was invented by the Victorians.
 > Maybe Kwellend-Njal will check the OED for us...
 > ===========================================================================
 > Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
	I had always assumed that it was because each remove was so
    far apart from the other remove. :-)

	With regard to the origin of the name Rialto, when I first
    started following this form, I was curious and went and looked up
    realto and found it defined as a term used to refer to the
    "Serious Theater" in New York. For some reason, at that time, this
    stuck me a particularly apt origin for the name of our mailing
    list.

Michael A. Thompson             |*| SCA: Deormod Hathuwiges sunu|*|Have
Iotek Inc, 1127 Barrington St.  |*| Phone:  (902)420-1890       |*| a
Halifax, N.S., B3H 2P8, Canada  |*| Fax:    (902)420-0674       |*|  Good
   E-Mail: mike@iotek.ns.ca     |*| Home:   (902)466-2868       |*|   Day :-)
From: dlc@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Dennis Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: RE:  MSGID: 1:124/2206.0 dcfa8efa
Date: 15 Apr 92 18:06:33 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

Tom.Jeffrey@f2118.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tom Jeffrey) writes:

> This is s question I have often wondered about. Why do people assume that
> Gealic or Celtic automaticlly means 'Irish'?? If I'm not completely off base,
> didn't both the Gaels and the Celts occupy rather substantial portions of
> Europe? Not, just the British Isles, but also France, Spain, Italy, Germany,
> etc...

  Long long ago, when there were a whole potful of Celtic tribes there was a
common language with only regional differences.  As the tribes assimilated 
and/or became isolated the language got lost or boiled down to two branches.
One of those languages was from Eire (Gaelic) the other Britain (Cymru).  Now
there are still only these two branches and their sub-branches:
Gaelic - Irish, Manx, Scots gaelic 
Cymru  - Welsh, Cornish, (whatever those from Brittany spoke)

  Each of these subgroups is somewhat different from the other, and at either
end of the spectrum I suspect they can't even understand each other...
  Now this is a REALLY thumbnail approach to explaining it, and I may have 
(probably did) leave out some steps along the way, but that is basically it.
Anthropologists think that Cymru is probably the older of the two and closer 
to what the continental Gauls spoke.  Eire spent a long time isolated except
through trade, from the other Celts which may explain its divergence.
 
> >>>>------------> Lord Ivon of Darkforest <------------<<<<

Kevin
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bengalt@wpi.WPI.EDU (The World's Address)
Subject: FTP Sites
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 22:25:35 GMT
From: jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: proto-France
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:16:48 GMT
Organization: The Internet


Hossein Ali Qomi asks:

>         a.  What is a "Proto-France" in the eleventh century?

I imagine that the writer in question was thinking of Proto-France as
the nucleus around which "FRANCE" would eventually condense.  French
history is so full of complications that one needs a scorecard to keep
track of who's doing what to whom, how, where and when, never mind
why.  

In the 11th century, I can think of at least four distinct real
nations in what we now call France: Normandy, Burgundy, Brittany, and
WLOFTCE (What's Left Over From The Carolingian Empire).  I'd argue
that it wasn't until, say, Louis XIV that France as a single nation
began to emerge; before then, it was a bunch of states that, for the
most part, despised each other.  (Now, of course, they merely despise
everyone else...)

This opens the following container of annelids: "What constitutes a
nation?"  A person from what we now call Germany would, in period, not
think of himself as German, but as a Frankfurter, Hamburger, Munster,
etc.  (Okay, so I wrote this around lunch) A person from France would
not think of himself as French, but think of himself as a Norman, a
Burgundian, etc.  

The only Western European countries whose inhabitants would think of
themselves nationally (and this didn't happen until very late period)
were probably the Spanish, the English and the Dutch.  (I can't speak
too much about Eastern Europe, since I've only recently begun to study
the area, although I think Poland was, during period, a fairly
powerful state and its decline occurred only during the 17th and 18th
century)  

In line with the persona debate, I suppose it bothers me marginally
(well, to be honest, I don't really care but I want to sound
erudite....;-) that someone can say, with a straight face, "Well, I'm
a 12th century German from Augsburg who..."

Fujimoto
From: dylan@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: I've been in the SCA too long
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:39:50 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club


Now I know I've been in the SCA too long.

Someone was discussing the final game of the
NCAA men's basketball tourney and they mentioned
that Duke one.  I wasn't paying attention and
asked Duke Sir Who?  8-)

Dylan, Bhakail, Eastrealm
       Philadelphia, PA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (a.j.s. nusbacher)
Subject: Title stacking 
Organization: University of Toronto 
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 22:25:15 GMT

You are quite right--stacking titles is not authentic, nor are postnominal
initials.  The Known World Handbook 20th Anniversary Edition made a point of
not stacking titles.  Titles are not properly stacked in modern usage either,
but RANKS and titles are stacked:  Captain the Earl of Soandso, Colonel Sir
Harry Flashman, VC.  Also, middle initials are not properly used with titles, 
so Sir John A. Macdonald is wrong-o.  But the middle initial thing might be 
very recent.

Summary:  Title stacking is bad.

Duke Finnvarr's letterhead carries the title:
Duke Finnvarr de Taahe, Kt.

This is authentic.

On the other hand, title stacking is a longstanding SCA usage, especially since
Bevin Fraser as Steward wrote an article in the TI on how to do it.

 _____________________________________________________________________________
|        Aryk Nusbacher                .. ..       Hart House, 1916
|                                      ||_||
|          Hart House                  | I |     || ||          || ||  ..    ..
|Informal Education in the University  |   |   . ||_||__________||_||  || ___||
|                                      | O |___|_|__________________|__| /  \ |
|    aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca         |   |       o oo  oo  oo   o      |__| |
|                                      |_A_|_______A_oo  oo  oo   A__^^^______|
|_____________________________________________________`------------____________

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca