From: peterson@hpl.hp.com (Chris Peterson)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Instructor/Agency Accountability
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:43:01 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, California

In article <1992Jul24.073857.5658@talon.ucs.orst.edu> sdodd@OES.ORST.EDU (Stephen M Dodd) writes:
>
>In article <1992Jul23.200721.22158@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com> peterson@hpl.hp.com (Chris Peterson) writes:
>>
>>In article <1992Jul23.172802.3942@talon.ucs.orst.edu> sdodd@OES.ORST.EDU (Stephen M Dodd) writes:
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>I'd like opinion from those of you on the net involved in training
>>>students about agency accountability.
>>>
>>>In one of my classes last night I heard a story about a non-certified
>>>diver teaching another to dive and then the second diver when to someone
>>>"selling" certifications and worked his way up to instructor ... and
>>>then turned around and "sold" the first guy an instructor rating.  Thus
>>>ending up with two bogus instructors.
>>
>...
>>...
>>
>>The agency must know about the problem before it can take any action.  
>>A signed, written statement is usually required before an agency will start
>>disciplinary action.  The statement is best if it comes from another
>>instructor from the same agency...
>
>   And this is the true defacto answer to my original question regarding
>   agency accountability.  You are telling me that it is my
>   responsibility and that of my party and it's leadership to police
>   this.  Yet we all dive under another agencies certification.
>
>   You see, it's hard to get involved, under an advesarial legal system,
>   when you don't have authority.  Your suggestion implies that I
>   should be personally prepared to act as a vigalante for the
>   agencies. NOT! It is the responsibility of the agency to police those
>   it certifies to instruct.

I respectfully disagree about responsibility for "policing".

If we (instructors & divers) don't "police ourselves", who will?  Rumblings 
over the past few years suggest that state and federal government would love to
take over (I find government intervention a horrifying thought)!  If we're
always looking for someone else to make it better, it won't.

For NAUI, the Instructors *are* the agency.  There is no higher authority.
Each of us assumes the responsibility to continually improve ourselves and
contribute to sport diving and education.  This includes policing ourselves.
When disciplinary actions are taken, judgements are made by active Instructors,
not "officals from agency HQ".

If, as you say, the agency does nothing about known unethical practices, there
is probably little that an individual can do.  You can avoid contact with these 
instructors and the divers they certify.  Dive stores can refuse to honor
those certifications.  For an individual, avoidance may be a good way of 
prolonging life, and for a dive store, it may be a way of avoiding a lot of 
nasty litigation.

Almost anyone can start a certifying agency.  However most of these don't last
long due to poor business practices (profit margins are really small). 
Condoning poor or dangerous instructional practices can only hurry its demise.

[sic] Hope for a single death, very soon, to provide the "meat" for a "feeding
frenzy" for lawyers.
 
> ...
>
>   I bet a simple cross-check of what I've said here and the instructor
>   numbers and those they've certified around here would reveal issues
>   to consider in an agency self-evaluation.  I've taught school.  You
>   can't teach without being formally evaluated by the students.
>   Wouldn't that work to some degree to put pressue on instructors to be
>   aware of their true responsibilities?  What about a mail in
>   follow-up?

NAUI does send a questionaire, with pre-paid return postage, to most students
as certifications are registered.  The questions are designed to ensure that
the certifying instructor followed NAUI standards.  It's not perfect, but it
is visible.

>-- 
>- Stephen M. Dodd, System Analyst, Oregon Extension Service
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>sdodd@oes.orst.edu          Internet          Oregon State University
>503-737-0699                                  Corvallis, OR 97331


-- 
Chris Peterson                                     Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
                                                    Research Computing Services
                                                              Palo Alto, CA USA 
(415) 857-6432                                     peterson@peterson.hpl.hp.com
From: peterson@hpl.hp.com (Chris Peterson)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:59:39 GMT
Subject: NAUI ITC & Cross-over (August '92, N. Calif.)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, California