HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Accents (was Re: Abuse a Brit)
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:27:02 GMT
Reply-To: P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Organization: University of Bristol

In article <BvH3MI.KrD@acsu.buffalo.edu> v064myby@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Christophe J Quaranta) writes:
>	PS How many Brits can tell the difference between a Canadian &
>an American?

Aw, that's trivial.  Canadians visiting Europe almost inevitably wear
those little maple-leaf flag lapel pins, precisely to ensure that they
can be distinguished.

-- 
Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
 P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk - ..!uunet!uknet!bsmail!p.smee - Tel +44 272 303132
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: streater@unixjr.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Tim Streater)
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 07:27:57 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.160742.14991@bristol.ac.uk> P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
>
>Ah, a political difference.  One of my feelings is that things which
>are basically 'natural monopolies', and which should be (another
>opinion, of course) considered necessities of civilized living, ought
>to be run by (properly-run) nationalised industry.  Particularly in
>cases where, if they are run privately, the government is going to
>'need' to create a monitoring bureaucracy parallel to the company's
>operational bureaucracy, which feels painfully inefficient.
>
But Paul, this does work quite well. Right here where I live, in fact. I have
electric & gas supplied by Pacific Gas and Electric, a private company. It is
regulated by the California Public Utilities Commission. Clearly we have a 
private monopoly here. The CPUC prevents advantage being taken by the monopoly
supplier, and assures a reasonable return on investment to PG&E shareholders.
They keep my cost down by buying from the cheapest suppliers. My sense is that
the problem in the UK is that OfWat, OfEtc, are pretty wimpy setups that have
perhaps not the experience needed to control the monpoly suppliers in the UK.

It may seem painfully inefficient, but not as much as government interference
is. There is much I could say about how that affects me personally in my job,
but I suppose I shouldn't as I am posting from work.

Tin.
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Currency problems
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:40:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: zola.qnaanr0
Organization: sgi

In article <1992Oct5.094830.26769@bristol.ac.uk>, smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
|> In article <BvJ9yC.Ant@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU> streater@unixjr.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Tim Streater) writes:
|> >But you don't, in principle, *want* subsidised jobs. The money for 
|> >these  subsidies has to come from somewhere. By spending it in this
|> >innefficient way,  you have less money around to invest in more 
|> >productive things. I am thinking of R&D, here.
|> 
|> In an ideal world, I might be persuaded of that.  However in today's
|> Britain, it is often the case that the OVERALL costs of eliminating the
|> jobs is more than would be the cost of sufficient subsidy.  This is
|> basically because there are not alternative jobs for the displaced
|> people to take, so that they end up on unemployment (direct cost), and
|> not paying taxes (indirect cost).

I've been hearing this argument most of my life.   There's always
just "one last generation" of people in an industry who need a
little subsidy to make it to the end of their careers.   But if you 
think of it, there are people risking their lives down coal mines
today who weren't even born when the Govt. took over, and started
protecting, the coal industry.

jon.
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Currency problems
Date: 2 Oct 92 03:58:17 GMT
Organization: sgi

In article <1992Oct1.102531.9152@vax.oxford.ac.uk>, wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>
> OK. My ignorance rules again, but I'm not convinced that this is 
> either necessarily correct or a good answer to Jon's argument. 
> You see I remember hearing that the reason all foreign coal is so 
> cheap is that the coal-producing countries' governments recognise 
> the value of having a production industry which employs large numbers 
> of semi-skilled workers and so subsidise mining to the hilt. This 
> has the knock-on effect of making British privatised coal hideously 
> expensive (in comparison) and causing the loss of thousands of
> unsubsidised British jobs. 

I doubt if that is the whole cause.  Some coal is simply cheaper to
produce.   But suppose this is the reason, so what?   If country X
wants to buy the coal market by subsidizing coal at a cost to their
taxpayers, let them.

In the first place, they won't be able to do it for ever, and our 
coal will sit in the ground, waiting for world prices to go up, or 
for some clever chap somewhere to discover a cheap way to get at it.
We get the cheap coal, and our industrial costs go down, and they
get the high taxes. 

> Jon claims that this is not a major problem, but I would disagree 
> with him by asking a what-if question. What if the Tories (unikely 
> I know) had continued to subsidise a national British coal industry 
> to a similar extent as other coal-producers? British coal would 
> have been cheap; coal mining jobs would not have been lost; 
> unemployment would have been lower all round.

We know what happens, becasue we've tried it.   The last Labour
administration had taxes jacked up to 60% of GNP.

jon.
From: arf@otter.hpl.hp.com (Andrew Farmer)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 14:38:14 GMT
Subject: Re: Re : Halloween in England
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british


In soc.culture.british, cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke) writes:

> In article <196@irsaims.UUCP> dennis@irsaims.UUCP (Dennis Hank) writes:

> 	   "Do the British celebrate Halloween ? "

> In England, no.  In Scotland, yes - it's a big occasion for children.  But
> since you're going to be in England, I wouldn't bother.
> --
> 	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)

	Which particular England is this? In the England I grew up in,
 we regularly kitted up for Halloween. As I got older, I noticed that
 the kids up my street started trick-or-treating so I presume they got
 that from TV or movies.
	
	arf
From: jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Words: American vs English (UK type)
Date: 5 Oct 92 09:29:18 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1ahj0hINN5fh@early-bird.think.com> sandee@Think.COM (Daan Sandee) writes:
=>In article <26432@castle.ed.ac.uk>, cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) writes:
=>|> In article <BvEwtB.D5F@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> cscdc@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Dan Carpenter) writes:
=>|> > I would like to have a list, If anyone has one, where in a America we
=>|> >call something by one name and in England it is called by another.
=>|> 
=>|> >Truck vs. Lory
=>|> 
=>|> Ok. In English a Lory is a large Australasian parrot with a brushlike
=>|> tongue. What is it called in America? I thought in America a truck was
=>|> a large goods vehicle?
=>|> -- 
=>|> Chris Malcolm    cam@uk.ac.ed.aifh          +44 (0)31 650 3085
=>|> Department of Artificial Intelligence,    Edinburgh University
=>|> 5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK                DoD #205
=>
=>Uh, Chris, the man asked what's it called IN ENGLAND. So he wouldn't be
=>interested in opinions out of Edinburgh. 

But Daan, my maan, Edinburgh is an honorary part of England!!

-- 
=======Jeremy Henderson========jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk===============
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: In response to Jon Livesey, also stand on EC, Maastricht and the
Date: 29 Sep 92 00:55:45 GMT
Organization: sgi

In article <1a85adINNir6@early-bird.think.com>, sandee@Think.COM (Daan Sandee) writes:
|> In article <qe9gdak@zola.esd.sgi.com>, livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
|> |> In article <1a77r8INNir6@early-bird.think.com>, sandee@Think.COM (Daan Sandee) writes:
|> |> |> 
|> |> |> While Germany (in the Weimar Republic) was still a functioning parliamentary
|> |> |> democracy, the largest electoral success of the NSDAP was around 35%.
|> |> 
|> |> In Europe, it's quite often the case that no single party gets
|> |> more than fifty percent of the vote.   That's why there is 
|> |> usually no Constitutional requirement for them to do so.
|> 
|> (etc. etc. etc.)
|> 
|> Jon , I know about European political systems, I've lived there for
|> forty years. In fact, I may presume I have more first-hand experience
|> of a parliamentary system with proportional representation (which the
|> Weimar Republic was) with the ensuing government by coalition that you have
|> yourself.

You may presume anything you like.   It's a free country.

jon.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:13308 rec.arts.books:17296
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Date: 30 Sep 92 22:53:12 GMT
Organization: sgi

In article <1992Sep30.122234.5049@epas.toronto.edu>, sfysh@epas.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Moskal Fysh) writes:
|> In article <qfk60pc@zola.esd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
|> >In article <1992Sep29.212802.4550@epas.toronto.edu>, sfysh@epas.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Moskal Fysh) writes:
|> >|> It's bonkers because Shakespeare's English is now 375 or so years old.
|> >|> Why should we be expecting 14-year-olds to comprehend it?
|> >
|> >Probably a stupid question, but have you ever read any
|> >Shakespeare?  
|> 
|> When I was 10 years old, my father started taking me to Stratford,
|> Ontario, to see the productions of Shakespeare there.  I learned to
|> understand Shakespeare when it was performed long before I learned to
|> read it.

Let me get this straight.  You claim that we should not
expect the average 14 year old to understand Shakespeare's 
English, even with explanatatory texts, and even with a 
teacher to help them.

But at the age of ten you understood the plays on a stage
with no text?


|> When I *did* read Shakespeare for the first time in seventh
|> grade (at a private school), we read the plays out loud, and it was
|> difficult.  Most of my classmates hated it. 

I started doing the same thing at age eleven, but you have one
advantage over me.  I don't read minds, so I don't know if
most of my classmates hated it or not.   All I knew was that
you couldn't climb over the little buggers when it came to the
auditions for next school play: they all wanted up there on 
stage


|> In ninth grade (at a public high school), we had to do _The 
|> Merchant of Venice_.  I understood it (though I didn't like 
|> that one).  Almost none of my classmates had any notion of 
|> what the play was about.  They couldn't understand it.  They 
|> hated it.  They hated English class.  They resented reading.  
|> *That's* the problem.

The whole curriculum should be oriented around what you *think*
your classmates thought.   Yup, that's a problem, all right.


|> 
|> No, but we could try teaching literature that they *can* 
|> understand (and I'm talking about literal comprehension 
|> of language) *first*.

"Begging the question" springs to mind here.

jon.
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:05:48 GMT
	<CC.92Sep30111913@arran.dcs.ed.ac.uk>
	<1992Sep30.145336.9175@infonode.ingr.com> <5336@balrog.ctron.com>
Followup-To: soc.culture.british
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <5336@balrog.ctron.com> mattb@ctron.com (Matt Brown) writes:

   So, compulsory? Yes, if tied to a performance.
   If not, show a movie version.
   If you can't manage that, forget it.

This makes sense.  My school came into the "forget it" category.  They got us
to read the tragedies out loud in class, and endlessly examine the plot
twists, and answer endless questions about what so-and-so thinks of
such-and-such... :-(
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)

		
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: kmchugh@nyx.cs.du.edu (Kevin McHugh)
Subject: Re: Children in Pubs?
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 11:03:19 GMT

>Craig

Oh I don't know, one can sit there and watch them shivering in the rain... :)

Kevin.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: R0664@vmcms.csuohio.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: COVENTRY POLYTECHNIC
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:59:19 GMT
Organization: CSU

I am trying to contact a colleague at Coventry Polytechnic (University).
Is there anyone at that institution that would be able to help me?
 
Please E Mail me with suggestions, Thanks.
 
Richard Cole
The Urban Center
Cleveland State University
Cleveland Ohio 44115 USA
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Date: 1 Oct 92 03:47:07 GMT
Organization: sgi

In article <1992Sep30.132152.9124@vax.oxford.ac.uk>, daveh@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
|> 
|> If imported coal becomes more expensive as a result of the 
|> devaluation, surely that makes British coal more competitive?

In the short run, it makes British everything more competitive,
but in the longer term it depends on how people react.   If 
coal miners - just an example, now - discover that the VCR 
they wanted to buy is now ten percent more expensive, then 
they may ask for a pay raise.

Then it depends on the employer.   Some employers will say
"Sorry chum, we all took a ten percent pay cut with respect 
to imports: that's what it means, you know".    Those 
employers will then have a choice: sell their product at the 
old Sterling price, and become more competitive in exporting
or in competing with imports, increase their market share 
worldwide, and so increasing employment in the UK.    Or 
increase their prices and profits a bit, keep about the same 
market share, but invest their increased profits in some new
business, also increasing employment in the UK.

Other employers may say "Sure, here's a ten percent raise"
and also raise their Sterling price.    Those employers will 
tend to raise neither profits nor market share, nor 
employment, and if they were uncompetitive now, this time 
next year, they'll be looking for the next devaluation, and 
so will the currency speculators.

jon.
From: tirumala@cae.wisc.edu (Vadakpat Tirumalai)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: E-Mail address of Dundee Inst of Tech
Date: 1 Oct 92 00:44:42 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering

I need to contact the Molecular Life Science dept at the Dundee Inst. of Tech.
If some kind soul can mail me the email address of the same I will be
very happy and say prayers for the aforementioned before going to sleep daily. 

:-) :-)

Cheers and thanks in advance
V.C.Tirumalai
tirumala@cae.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
From: jac54@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:23:36 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.122234.5049@epas.toronto.edu> sfysh@epas.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Moskal Fysh) writes:
>
>No, but we could try teaching literature that they *can* understand
>(and I'm talking about literal comprehension of language) *first*.

	I take my cue from Vera Brittain's daughter's response
	when TBW observed that children were leaving secondary
	school unable to read or write.  She observed that all
	children are supposed to be able to read and write when they
	finish primary school.  (Guess who would have been Ministrix
	for Education at the appropriate time.)

	The point is: once you have grasped the basics of a language
	you can only improve your command of it by going on to topics
	that are more challenging.  Shakespeare's English is not easy
	for anybody to read without thinking, but the rewards for the
	effort are sublime.

		Oh, lest the world should task you to recite
		What merit lived in me that you should love,
		After my death, dear love, forget me quite,
		For you in me can nothing worthy prove;
		Unless you would devise some virtuous lie,
		To do more for me than mine own desert
		And hang more praise upon deceased I
		Than niggard truth would willingly impart.
		Oh, lest your true love may seem false in this,
		That you for love speak well of me untrue,
		My name to be buried where my body is,
		And live no more to shame nor me not you:
			For I am shamed by that which I bring forth,
			And so should you, to love things nothing worth.

	Alec Chambers

	The meaning in context is left as an excercise for the reader.

	(Yes, I have a copy of the Sonnets in my office)
From: smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: bad teeth (was: pardon etc.)
Date: 1 Oct 1992 10:46:31 GMT
Organization: SunConnect
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.france.sun.com

In article <1992Sep24.185407.29977@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>, pjs@euclid.JPL.NASA.GOV (Peter J. Scott) writes:

> 
> You said it.  My dentist in the UK gave me fillings too numerous to
> count (and did not allow any form of local anesthetic).
> 

Why did you stay? When I moved to a new town my first dentist used to
give the anaesthetic then immediately start drilling, so my mouth went numb
just as he finished. After two such visits I changed dentists to one
(recommended by friends) 100yds along the street. My family have been
attending that practice for over 20 years and never had problems since.

There are good & bad, like anywhere in the world.

Steve

-- 
Steve McKinty
SUN Microsystems ICNC
38240 Meylan, France
email: smckinty@france.sun.com	   BIX: smckinty
From: fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Accents (was Re: Abuse a Brit)
Date: 30 Sep 92 21:22:28 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: weber.ucsd.edu

In article <vq+pf8h.sue@netcom.com> sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:
>
>
>Yes, but have you been thus misidentified by a fellow Englishman?
>Didn't I have a laugh when this happened to my SO!  He was most
>disgruntled.  
>
>Also, one American asked him if were German.  That was even funnier.  
>
>David Brooks has mentioned that Brits that have moved to the US obtain
>a "mid-Atlantic" accent.  I think this only happens if they
>move to the mid-Atlantic.  :-)
>

I've been asked if I were Dutch, which I find pretty odd.

-- 
____________________________________________________________________
Dawn over the dark sea brings on the sun;                      
She leans across the hilltop: see, the light!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: evansg@uproar.enet.dec.com (Gwyn Evans @ IME)
Subject: Re: First Direct vs. High St. banking
Reply-To: evansg@uproar.enet.dec.com (Gwyn Evans @ IME)
Organization: Digital Equipment Service Industries Solutions Company Ltd
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:12:56 GMT


In article <6250094@hpopd.pwd.hp.com>, ian@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Ian Watson)
writes:
>From their literature, I can't see any disadvantages, except perhaps that
>you
>deal with someone on the phone rather than seeing them face-to-face. 
>Does
>anyone have any experiences, good or bad, with First Direct  ?  Are there
>any
>catches to banking with them ?

  Well, I've heard some good things about them and keep thinking that I
ought to change, as I've not been to the NatWest branch where my account
is for over six years!
  Inertia is the main reason that I havn't done so, so far.

Gwyn
--
+======================================================================+
| Gwyn Evans  | evansg@uproar.enet.dec.com |  Uxbridge, Middlesex, UK  |
| DESISCo - Digital Equipment Service Industries Solutions Company Ltd |
|  Views expressed and statements made are mine and not those of DEC   |
+======================================================================+
From: smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Know someone at Triumph or Norton???
Date: 6 Oct 92 08:47:44 GMT
Organization: SunConnect
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.france.sun.com

In article <1992Oct5.182245.11475@pixel.kodak.com>, dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com (Dave Jones) writes:
> Douglas S Beck (dsbeck@athena.mit.edu) wrote:
> : I am a PhD candidate at MIT.  I am working on a project, designing a regenerated
> : gas-turbine engine for a motorcycle application.  I am trying to find which
> : motorcycle companies are interested in this research.  If you know someone at
> : Norton, Triumph, or another British motorcycle company, I would appreciate you
> : sending me that person's address, telephone number, or e-mail address.  Thank you.
> : 
> Are there any British motorcycle companies?  Triumph and BSA merged over
> 20 years ago, Norton merged with them some years later, then there was
> the Meriden Workers Cooperative trying to make something out of the
> remnants of the Norton-Villiers-Triumph lash-up after it all collapsed,
> and then -- what?  Maybe a cottage industry in parts for classic bikes
> but hardly anything to keep Papa Honda awake at night.  Tell you what:
> try Queens University, Belfast.  They had some interesting research
> in the early 70s. 

I think Queen's still do that research, but its in collaboration with
one of the big Japanese manufacturers (Honda or Yamaha, I can't
remember which). The person to contact there is Professor Blair, in
the Dept of Mechanical Engineering.

Steve

-- 
Steve McKinty
SUN Microsystems ICNC
38240 Meylan, France
email: smckinty@france.sun.com	   BIX: smckinty