From: yohan@shadow.ksu.ksu.edu (Jonathan W Newton)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Why I am an atheist (long!)
Date: 3 Sep 1992 09:57:03 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: shadow.ksu.ksu.edu


In article <sam.715453681@spssig>, adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>yohan@sam.ksu.ksu.edu (Jonathan W Newton) writes:
>
>
>>In article <la7c5dINN76o@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM>, danoc@earlybird.Eng.Sun.COM (Dan O'Connell [CONTRACTOR]) writes:
>>>(Jonathan W Newton) emphatically defines christianity:
>>> 
>>> This is the biblical definition of faith.  You are supposed to have
>>> faith that christ is the savior and son of god.  This means that you
>>> do not question (think critically) about the subject of god in any way.
>>> Furthermore, anything that the bible says is true is not to be
>>> questioned; you are simply supposed to have faith and accept it as fact.
>>> To put it simply,faith in something means you believe in something
>>> without proof or reason.  
>>>
>>>And this is Mr. Newton's fantasy about how christians
>>>define faith. I am unaware of ANY christian theologian
>>>who would agree with his view. 
>>> 
>>>Dano
>
>>You obviously know very few christian theologians.  You are not allowed to 
>>doubt that the bible is the word of god, and you are not allowed to doubt 
>>christ is the son of god.  You are to simply have faith that these 
>>assumptions are correct. Post on christian newsgroups and most will agree 
>>that you must have faith in these.  If my views are a fantasy, then we are 
>>all being tricked by Descarte's evil demon.
>
>Uhm, have you taken a theology course?  Do you know anything about Process
>Theology?  It denies ex-niholo creation.  How about John Hick's universal 
>salvation, derived from Iraneaus?  Christian theology is a very broad field.  
>There is plenty of room to doubt the literal bible.  Most modern, 
>non-evangelical Christian theologians deny 'plenary verbal inspiration.'
>
>Go take a theology class at a good liberal arts college...you'll be quite
>surprised what Christian theologians propose.  I know I was.
>
>Heck, my copy of the Oxford NRSV refers to the Deluge as a myth and gives
>it's origins as Babylonian myths.  My NIV Study Bible disagrees, but both 
>opinions are from Christian theologians.
>
> -Steve
>--
> The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
>                        -------------------
>     adams@spss.com                           Phone: (312) 329-3522
>     Steve Adams                              Fax:   (312) 329-3558

No, Steve, I haven't taken a theology course.  How about you enlighten me on
their positions on these questions:

1)  Is faith in christ required?
2)  Can god's existence be proven?

Last time I checked, the answers were no and no.  If you disagree, please tell me
what your position is, and your reasoning for it.  If you don't disagree, then
you are not thinking about many critical issues.

Just out of curiosity:
3)  Is the bible god's word to man?
4)  If so, why is it so inefficient at conveying his message?  Don't try to say
that the problem is man's fault either.  Who's fault is it when someone can't
understand the literature: the author or the reader?
5)  Is the bible a compilation of metaphors?
6)  If so, why were metaphors used, since they result in very subjective
interpretations?  

7)  Is the flood a myth (see your oxford nrsv)?
8)  If so, how do you know what is fact or fiction in the bible?  Why can't
everything be a myth?


Well, since you're armed with these enlightening theology courses, please share
your wealth of knowledge with the group.  BTW, save quotations for the theology
class.  When you christians simply copy segments of texts, it just proves that
you are non-thinkers.

Jon Newton
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc