HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tbrowne@jarthur.claremont.edu (T. Erik Browne)
Subject: Re: Homosexuality in the Nile
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:48:49 GMT

In article <2801128484@dwetzel.mis.stratus.com> Dave_Wetzel@vos.stratus.com writes:
>In article <1anp8sINNpa7@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> axg20@po.CWRU.Edu (Ashwath 
>Ganesan) writes:
>
>I have no idea how this thread came up in a game context...  oh well...  
>
>* WARNING*: I will try to be polite, though I have little patience with 
>homo-phobia.
>
>> No, the Nile Empire has no homosexuality?  Why?  ...
>> You could consider it being a contradiction of the
>> Law of Morality... and before you get the flamethrowers.  Remember, the
>> NE Law of Morality is very restricting... good and evil, no grey...
>> so it's not /accurate/... it just is. 
>
>Well, if you want to specificly ban homosexuality, you'll have to come up 
>with some other (ir)rationale.  The Law of Morality doesn't prohibt any 
>action, it *classifies* actions, therefore I suppose you might say 
>homosexuality is evil, but you couldn't say it can't exist.  I personally 
>refuse to believe that homosexuals are evil.
>
>And before you go off doing this, remember that NE is not Christian 
>Morality, it's Egyptian.  You should do some research into Egyptian gods 
>and society (perhaps someone on the net can answer this already).
>
>You also can't claim homosexuality as a contradiction to the social axiom 
>as, clearly there have been homosexuals in historical societies that would 
>have lower social axioms.
>
>No, if you're homo-phobic enough to really want to outlaw it, you'll have 
>to make it a world law.  May I suggest the Law of GM Homo-phobia?  Or 
>perhaps just counciling?

It's Politically Incorrect Man to the rescue! (that's me, BTW)

I'm sorry, Dave, but I didn't see any homophobia in Ashwath's article.  I
believe he made a legitimate point that if '30s pulp fiction didn't support
the existance of homosexuals within the genre, then there is little chance
that homosexuality exists in the NE.  Also as he said, if people can show
examples of homosexuals in pulp fiction, then his argument goes out the
window (I believe others have shown some).

Dave, there are some real a**holes out there, but I don't think Ashwath is
one of them.  Take a breather and then re-read his article in a new light.
And don't be so quick to flame.

>
>--------------
>Dave_Wetzel@vos.stratus.com

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T. Erik Browne                          | Harvey Mudd College
tbrowne@hmcvax.claremont.edu            | Claremont, CA  91711
tbrowne@jarthur.claremont.edu           | Best college west of Upland
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry.  No .sig today.
From: gdavis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Grant R. Davis)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Mark Twain!!!
Date: 4 Oct 92 18:23:14 GMT
Reply-To: gdavis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Grant R. Davis)
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: gdavis@donald.cc.utexas.edu

Hello, is anybody out there...........?

(he says just before a giant, slobbering, tentacled thing comes out of the
water and yanks him over the railing:-)

The Grant Man
gdavis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu

"This is good[beer]. Remind me to take this world."-Lost Destiny
From: jmkaraka@eos.ncsu.edu (JOHN MARTIN KARAKASH)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: On the campaign trail
Date: 2 Oct 92 20:28:58 GMT
Reply-To: jmkaraka@eos.ncsu.edu (JOHN MARTIN KARAKASH)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Originator: jmkaraka@c00008-118dan.eos.ncsu.edu


>
|>I saw a sign at a rally on TV: 'Clinton-Gore Spartans'.
|>

	I'd take the Gaunt Man for president over Clinton anyday.  One thing
we know for sure is that the Gaunt Man doesn't mess around.  :)

       -john 'was gonna vote for Perot but my axioms don't
              support the concept of that much wealth      ' karakash-
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: jogle@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim))
Subject: Thanks everyone!
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 00:01:36 GMT

I just wanted to say "thanks" to everyone who posted birthday wishes
to me over the last week.  With the mailing list down I'm having to
rely on the newsgroup to keep up but my newssite purges the alt.*
groups every six to eight hours so I've probably missed most of what's
been going on (if anything has been going on).

Thanks again!

-- 
Kansas Jim (Jim Ogle, TORG guru)                               /|
jogle@aoc.nrao.edu (NRAO-VLBA, Socorro New Mexico)           o| |-
"I'd be apathetic if I cared."                              /|\\|
From: aodn307@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Joshua Henry Geurink)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: A few more dumb questions...
Date: 30 Sep 92 14:33:30 GMT
Reply-To: aodn307@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Joshua Henry Geurink)
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: aodn307@bongo.cc.utexas.edu


	Ya know, here I was last night just a flippin' through the 
Nile Empire Sourcebook, designing the NPC for the next adventure
(his name is Major Havoc.  You figure it out.) when a truly scary rule
oversight(?) hit me.  It says, in the power drawback section, that 
whenever a drawback occurrs, the character receives the possibilites.
One of the drawbacks (the shock damage one) occurrs whenever the character
uses his power.  Would this mean that good ol' Maj. gets three possibilites
(and a shock point) every time he slugs someone using his super strength?  Or
even six possibilites using both his super strength and super skill 
(unarmed combat)?  Now, granted, I didn't give him these drawbacks, but I'd
hate to be gamemastering Electronic Media only to be dishing out three
poss. a pop whenever she blasts someone with her electro-ray.
	Oh, yeah, and one other thing:  might anyone know if the special
perks for shapeshifters are a result of the skill, or as a world law of
Orrorsh?  The Sacellum Were-Priest (long story.  He doesn't know he's a 
werewolf) withstood a massive assault by a bone golem in Aysle (another
loonng story), only taking about seven shock, before literally ripping
the monster's spine out. (Rolling a 90 will do that with an all-out
vital blow blindside attack).  What I wanna know is if the bozo shoulda been
rolling for contradictions every time he took a hit, or if I shoulda
centered this adventure in an Asylish pure zone.

	By the way, sorry 'bout that last message.  This terminal likes
sending everything I type into hyperspace, especially when it's long.

			Until the Gaunt Man steams his way out of maelstrom,
				King Rat signing off!

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: aodn307@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Joshua Henry Geurink)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Alone...
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:32:48 GMT
Reply-To: aodn307@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Joshua Henry Geurink)
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: aodn307@bongo.cc.utexas.edu



	"...and He did look down upon the mountain of defeated villans
and infrequent posters, and laugh.  And then He did look to the sky,
and sneer, for one villan still escapes him.  The blasphemer, the Grant
Man, yet lives.  The Grant Man has not yet been beaten into submission
with His bare hands; the Grant Man has not yet felt the power of the 
Dogs of War.
	"'Grant Man,' He did exclaim. 'You are next.  So swears
MAJOR HAVOC!!!!!!!!'"

	From the Book of Havoc, p7853, #22-30

	Cry HAVOC, and UNleash the DOGS of WAAAAR!!!
		-Major Havoc
From: albert@chain.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Rick Jones)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: telekinesis speed
Date: 6 Oct 92 02:53:51 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: chain.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu

In article <1992Oct04.131824.19250@stiatl.salestech.com> rwt@stiatl.salestech.com (Roger Terrell) writes:
>How fast can I move an object with Telekinesis?

	I would use effect=weight+speed since that's what they do for 
TK flight.

>What if I'm moving (I'm on a plane, or have a Nile Empire Gizmo that gives
>me Flight)?  Can I still move objects about within the range of my 
>Telekinesis?  
	
	Unofficial ruling #563: Objects the psi manipulates move in the
same frame of reference as the psi.  So if he's standing on top of a zeppelin
moving at  X MPH, and Dr Bong throws one of his patented sonic grenades,
the psi can catch it and toss it back withoug worrying about the movement
of the zeppelin.  Now, if he wants to pick up Mary Ann McKay and carry her along
with him while his rocket ranger pal is flying him along, the psi has to
be able to accelerate (or decelerate) the object into his referance frame 
to be able to carry her along.  (In other words, if he can move something
as fast as the Ranger, then he can grab her, and pull her along, otherwise,
the psi won't get a clear lock on the target.)

>The particular problem that came up last night was:  Character who can
>fly really fast (but not FTL), wants to fly and bring others with him
>by using his telekinesis to carry them along as he flies.

	Well, first, X has to lift the people, then fly (seems easier in my
mind).  He has to grab all the folks ( bringing them into his f.o.r.), and
then take off.  Now, flying for an extened period of time is no prob, as
the bonus number is to duration, so he can fly for a while on each roll, but
the problem is that Mister Psi has to keep holding the people, once a round.
That adds up after a while.
	Our psi has found it easier to carry people physically (one or two,
if they're small, at a time) rather than try to mess with the huge 
multi action problems of flying everyone.


#include<1_grain_of_salt>
-- 
Rick Jones				Systems Support Center
albert@bcm.tmc.edu			Baylor College of Medicine
Voice: 713-798-7352			standard disclaimers apply
Sky fits heaven, so ride it.  		Remote has button, so MUTE it.
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: jkiley@bgsu.edu (James H. Kiley)
Subject: Tiptoe...
Organization: Bowling Green State Univ.
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 18:51:49 GMT

Okay, I want to say this without flames.
Are there homosexuals in the Nile Empire?

	The 'yes' side:  Homosexuality has existed since the dawn of time.  
			 Don't be silly, of course there is.

	The 'no' side:  The pulp fiction novels from which the Nile is 
			basically drawn make no mention thereof.


(*stands back and lets go*)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: bchapman@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Bruce Patrick Chapman)
Subject: Re: Useful Japanese phrases!
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 22:07:31 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.030346.3737@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> jogle@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim)) writes:
>Excerpted from "Japanese Phrases for the Travelling Storm Knight", by
>Kansas Jim (available at an underground publisher near you!)  Or, you
>Where does all the money go?	Kono okane wa donaru no desuka.
....kono okane wa doko e ikimasu ka?
>
>That is not proper behavior	Watashi no kuni dewa souiumane wa
>where I come from.		shima sen.
...in MY country WE don't do things like THAT!...
>
>That was different.		Sozo ijo no mono deshita.
...sore wa hokan na mono deshita...
>
>Their deaths perfectly		Watashi no nozomi dori no shinikata
>expressed my deepest desires.	deshita ne.
...their maner of dying satisfied my being...
>
>Could we be there in 2 hours?	Ni-jikan de tsukimasuka.
...will we be there in 2 hours?...>

>Emergency!			Tasukete oisogi!
...HELP!!! QUICKLY...HELP!!!..
>
>What are the stakes here?	Kakekin wa ikura desuka?
...how much ARE the stakes?...
>
>I have many evil thoughts.	Osoroshii kangae nimo osoware masu.
...taihen na kangai ga takusan arimasu...

>That looks good.		Yosasou desune.
...sore ga iee mitaii...>
>Bring me some catsup/Coke	Kechappu/kora mo kudasai.
>with that.
...can i also have some catsup/coke?...
>
>You look okay.			Daijobusou desune.
...ARE you OK?..
>
>I don't want to frighten	Hokanohito o odokashi taku nai.
>anyone.
...i don't want to make the other people strange...<grin>
>
>Hey, this is fun!		Koitsua omoshiroiya!
...hmmmmm...this is amusing...
>
>(If anyone who actually knows Japanese should find these translations
>to not be exactly correct, please let me know by email.  I'm still
>learning Japanese but I can already tell a couple of the phrases in
>the book these are from don't quite jibe with what it says they mean!)

...well...here's a few for starters...although i speak colloquial japanese...
(that is to say, that they odn't teach what i speak in a proper class <grin>)

cheers!
c.
(if they paid me for my opinions i'd be rich)
From: schwarts@cps.msu.edu (Steven Eric Schwartz)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Beginning TORG Campaign
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:33:17 GMT
Reply-To: schwarts@cps.msu.edu (Steven Eric Schwartz)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Originator: schwarts@atlantic.cps.msu.edu

Hello all,

I bought TORG about 2 years ago because I liked the theme. Now that there
are supplements galore I'd like to begin a campaign and get involved. What
I'd like to know is the following:

	1) Which fiction/story books are out and good?
	2) What errata and/or rules fix are floating around?
	3) Which game supplements/books are good or useful?

Reply to me ASAP -- the High Lords are hot on my trail!!


-- 
Steven Eric Schwartz            "It's not safe out here. It's wonderous, with
(schwarts@cps.msu.edu)           treasures to satiate desires both subtle and
125 East Wilson Hall-MSU         gross.  But it's not for the timid."
East Lansing, Michigan  48825                           - Q, "Q Who"
From: jogle@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim))
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: We're not popular!
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:32:17 GMT
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM

jgl2p@landau5.phys.Virginia.EDU (Joseph G. Louderback) writes:

>|> to kill someone, get them down to zero Possibilities, drop them in a
>|> Pure Zone that is most hostile towards them (magician in the Living
>|> Land, etc) and then just throw some big, nasty thing at them that

>Even this is not foolproof, however.  True, Alain was just in an
>Orrorsh
>dominant zone, but with neither P-pts, nor cards, she gave Victor Man-
>waring a rude surprise.  That was fun.  I didn't even disconnect on
>that
>one.

What was it Alain used?  Orrorsh is generically hostile towards
everyone but its axioms support everything except for high-tech.
An Orrorshan Pure Zone would be the place to drop a cybered person or
an Akashan....

-- 
Kansas Jim (Jim Ogle, TORG guru)                               /|
jogle@aoc.nrao.edu (NRAO-VLBA, Socorro New Mexico)           o| |-
"I'd be apathetic if I cared."                              /|\\|
From: gdavis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Grant R. Davis)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: On the campaign trail
Date: 2 Oct 92 14:34:38 GMT
Reply-To: gdavis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Grant R. Davis)
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: gdavis@donald.cc.utexas.edu

I saw a sign at a rally on TV: 'Clinton-Gore Spartans'.

The Grant Man
gdavis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu

"This is good[beer]. Remind me to take this world."-Lost Destiny


Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: jogle@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim))
Subject: Re: Tiptoe...
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 00:22:36 GMT

In article <mumble> jkiley@bgsu.edu (James H. Kiley) writes:

>Okay, I want to say this without flames.
>Are there homosexuals in the Nile Empire?
>
>	The 'yes' side:  Homosexuality has existed since the dawn of time.  
>			 Don't be silly, of course there is.
>
>	The 'no' side:  The pulp fiction novels from which the Nile is 
>			basically drawn make no mention thereof.

Depends on how you view the relationship between Batman and Robin,
doesn't it?  8-)

I would say: sort of.  While its unrealistic to say that the Social
axiom of the Nile doesn't support homosexuality (since the axioms do
not affect how the living interacts with the living), it is possible
to say that the Social axiom of the Nile, based on the Western World
morals of the 1930's, does not support acceptance of people being gay.

As such, it would be possible for people to be gay but it wouldn't be
considered the "proper way to live"; this belief would lead to the
Law of Morality considering homosexuality to be Evil (unless the
majority of people in the Nile do not consider homosexuality wrong.)

It's possible though that the social climate of the Nile is
sufficiently different from the real 1930's and being gay is not
considered "wrong".  After all, according to the Nile sourcebook women
have the same rights as men and are treated equally, which was not the
case in the 1930's.  If so, then there's no problem with being gay.

Another thing that could come into play is how the ancient Egyptians
felt about homosexuality and whether or not Mobius has reinstated that
facet of Egyptian society into the Nile Empire or not.  


-- 
Kansas Jim (Jim Ogle, TORG guru)                               /|
jogle@aoc.nrao.edu (NRAO-VLBA, Socorro New Mexico)           o| |-
"I'd be apathetic if I cared."                              /|\\|
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: tbrowne@jarthur.claremont.edu (T. Erik Browne)
Subject: Re: TorgMUSH
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 02:25:23 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.231503.2657@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> jogle@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim)) writes:
>How about we find a new site for the mailing list first?  PLEEEZZEE!
>I can't take much more of this!  Aaaauuuugghhh!

What exactly do you need to run the mailing list?

(Don't start drooling, I don't have access to a computer, I'm more curious
than anything else.)

>
>-- 
>Kansas Jim (Jim Ogle, TORG guru)                               /|
>jogle@aoc.nrao.edu (NRAO-VLBA, Socorro New Mexico)           o| |-
>"I'd be apathetic if I cared."                              /|\\|
                                                             ^^^^^^
Ah, yes, now I see it.  Hold it, no I don't.  Oh yes, there it is.  The dish
is quite nice, but the base interferes with the overall effect.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T. Erik Browne                          | Harvey Mudd College
tbrowne@hmcvax.claremont.edu            | Claremont, CA  91711
tbrowne@jarthur.claremont.edu           | Best college west of Upland
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry.  No .sig today.
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: tbrowne@jarthur.claremont.edu (T. Erik Browne)
Subject: Re: We're not popular!
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 21:15:22 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.105922.2334@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> jogle@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim)) writes:
>Subject: USENET Readership report for Sep 92 
>
>This is the full set of data from the USENET readership report for Sep 92.
>
>        +-- Estimated total number of people who read the group, worldwide.
>        |     +-- Actual number of readers in sampled population
>        |     |     +-- Propagation: how many sites receive this group at all
>        |     |     |      +-- Recent traffic (messages per month)
>        |     |     |      |      +-- Recent traffic (kilobytes per month)
>        |     |     |      |      |      +-- Crossposting percentage
>        |     |     |      |      |      |    +-- Cost ratio: $US/month/rdr
>        |     |     |      |      |      |    |      +-- Share: % of newsrders
>        |     |     |      |      |      |    |      |   who read this group.
>        V     V     V      V      V      V    V      V
>(1082 more popular newsgroups deleted)
>1083   7700   254   54%   413   810.1     0%  0.11   0.5%  alt.games.torg 
                                               ^^^^
Okay, I can accept the fact that this isn't a real popular group (actually
it is quite easy for me to believe), but I look at how much money we are
wasting with our non-education related discussions here, and I am quite
disappointed.  Only eleven cents per person per month!  My God, we can waste
more than that, can't we?  I mean, we are successfully blowing hundreds of
dollars on this game and the infinite number of sourcebooks, and we can only
blow $.11 a month?!?  Come on, people, let's get on the ball.  Post that
message you were thinking about posting.  Ask that question, write that
adventure idea, discuss that sourcebook.  Heck, if it's interesting,
cross-post to talk.bizzare and get a flame-war going.  That will really get
the money flowing.  So get out there and do your part for the newsgroup!


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T. Erik Browne                          | Harvey Mudd College
tbrowne@hmcvax.claremont.edu            | Claremont, CA  91711
tbrowne@jarthur.claremont.edu           | Best college west of Upland
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry.  No .sig today.
From: Major Havoc
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Death of a D.D.
Date: 5 Oct 92 14:53:06 GMT
Reply-To: aodn307@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Joshua Henry Geurink)
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: aodn307@bongo.cc.utexas.edu


	Oh, dear, Mr. Grant Man, sir!  Surely you aren't referring to any
certain darkness device near and dear to our hearts here in agt, are you?
Beware, oh mighty highlord-wanna-be, that I, yes I, have the power to 
take you down! I, MAJOR HAVOC, will pummel you into submission with
my bare fiests!  I vill sqvaaash yeugh like a baggh!  The BMW will
be here eternally!  (I fully expect some reward for this!!!!)
	Ha Ha HA HA HHHAAA HAAAA HHAAAAAAA!

	Cry "HAVOC," and UNleash the DOgs of WAAAAARRRR!!
	(The last thing many villans hear before getting pummeled)
	 	--Major Havoc
From: jogle@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim))
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: convention torg sessions...
Keywords: conventions, torg
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:36:50 GMT
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM

In article <mumble> pjk39593@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jud Kenney) writes:

>I am trying to get information on how to run an offically sanctioned TORG 
>event at a convention...  I saw the information posted here last week, but 
>didn't save it, and now (of course) the opportunity has arisen...

Write to West End Games at the address below and tell you you want to
run TORG at a convention (probably should tell tham what convention,
where, and when too).

West End Games
RR 3 Box 2345
Honesdale, PA 18431

-- 
Kansas Jim (Jim Ogle, TORG guru)                               /|
jogle@aoc.nrao.edu (NRAO-VLBA, Socorro New Mexico)           o| |-
"I'd be apathetic if I cared."                              /|\\|
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: lavonius@plootu.Helsinki.FI (Ville Lavonius)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: REVIEW: "Out of Nippon"
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:06:04 GMT
	<RATINOX.92Oct5134313@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu>
	<1992Oct5.211741.6602@zia.aoc.nrao.edu>
Organization: Cthulhoid Entities for a Better Tomorrow

In article <1992Oct5.211741.6602@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> jogle@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim)) writes:

   Actually, I thought 2XS wasn't bad until the last half of the book,
   then it did kind of fall apart.

   I wasn't able to find any other TORG credits for Nigel but he did
   write "Pawns: The Opening Move" for WotC, which (unabashed plug again)
   I get co-credit in for the TORG conversion notes.  

Hmm. I vagueky remember some hardware guide is written by him. Heavy Weapons ?

   -- 
   Kansas Jim (Jim Ogle, TORG guru)                               /|
   jogle@aoc.nrao.edu (NRAO-VLBA, Socorro New Mexico)           o| |-
   "I'd be apathetic if I cared."                              /|\\|

							
--
Ville Lavonius	        University of Helsinki, Dept. of Computer Science
lavonius@cc.helsinki.fi : "Some of my best friends are nukes" - R. Reagan
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg