HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:01:24 EDT
From:         todd pukanecz <CCCS@VTVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: gun control, kinda'

>yes the definition of a crime would be helpful.  Usually the death
>penalty arises when the crime caused a death or maybe indirectly would
>(talk of death penalty for major drug dealers).  Shooting a store
>owner in the leg to rob his/her store is using a firearm in a crime,
>but the death penalty seems a tad harsh.
>
Lemme get this straight.  A drug dealer is arrested with a gun in his
car and should get the death penalty, but a looter deliberatly shooting
a clerk shouldn't?  Is there any logical reason for this?  Or am I
missing something?
   toddddddddddddd
> -Joe

=========== Wake up John Doe.  You're the hope of the world! ===========
--------     /^^\    ---- Todd Pukanecz ----   ----  CCCS@VTVM1  ----
-----      /      >   --- Ag. Econ. DPL --- "LSD has been known to cause
---  /\_ / @       \   -- Virginia Tech --   psychotic reactions in those
-  /________________>   - Blacksburg VA -    who don't use it." - TL
From: IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU (macphil)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: The New Format
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:35:39 GMT
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Comments: To: Forum for the Discussion of Politics <POLITICS@OHSTVMA.IUPUI.EDU>

On Fri, 16 Oct 1992 14:26:12 -0400 Rick George said:
>>>>Yesterday's Trib said she was the first minority female news anchor in
>>>>Chicago and this was probably why she was given the job...
>>
>>>Oh sure, she's a member of a minority group and she got the job...therefore
>>>she got the job because she's a member of a minority group.  Wonderful
>>>logic.
>>
>>So you don't think such things occur?

>It really doesn't matter whether such things occur.  What matters is
>that either the Trib or you (I can't tell whose belief it it from the
>way you've written it) made the unsupported statement that Simpson
>probably got her job because she belongs to a minority group.  If
>someone is given a job because of a trait, it doesn't follow that all
>people who have that trait got their jobs that way.

You've lost me somewhere.  Can you show me where I said that because
she might have (or because someone else might have) received a preference
because of a minority trait (whether it's because she's female,
African-American, etc.) that everyone in similar situations does as well?

I only reported the speculation on the part of the paper.  I think you are
trying to (and failing miserably) r|e|a|d|b|e|t|w|e|e|n|t|h|e|l|i|n|e|s|.|

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The lesser of two evils is still evil." - Winston Churchill

MacPhil / iqti400@indycms.bitnet / iqti400@indycms.iupui.edu
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Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 17:54:00 CST
From:         HIGHLANDER <940253JT@GBVAXA.UWGB.EDU>
Subject:      RE:Sorry..
Comments: To: politics@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

	Does this mean we can justify killing each other?  I agree that
people walked on once seldom allow it again.  I agree with most of what you say.
	However, if we are ever to break this cycle of killing each other, we
must learn to cooperate..  Humanity _can_ rise above it's animal roots, into
a species where cooperation is the driving force behind continuation, not
competition.  That won't happen as long as we point weapons at each other.
	In regard to the Jews..self respect can mean more than life.  Jews
believe in an afterlife that is more important to them than life.  If there
were nothing more important than life, what person would ever give his life
for a cause?  It is this strong belief which can provide the drive.

	My point is.. Sooner or later we must evolve into a people that
doesn't shoot itself in the foot.  Teams don't win by injuring their own players
  The time that we can acheive all this may be in the distant future, but by
denying it is ever possible, we delay it.  Justifying violence because
others use it didn't work at twelve years old, and it shouldn't work on
a planetary scale.


	"If you are capable of wrath, then you are also capable of hope."

						-S. Donaldson

								J.T.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
From: holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov
Subject: Re: Aztecs
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 00:24:23 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalno.fnal.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <POLITICS%92101317583976@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>,         
linda <SABOE@VUVAXCOM.BITNET> writes:
> human sacrifice is used only in a symbolic manner in the west...as in the
> communion ceremony (bread to flesh, wine to blood).

You mean it is now.  Time was that it was very real...

And the Altar of War Mr. Smith mentioned is still quite real.

Dan
From: STUSTITH@EKU.BITNET (I am Looking For Signs Of Intelligent Life! Know Any?)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: WWF (AKA the veep debate
Date: 15 Oct 92 02:46:04 GMT
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you know what the difference between bush and clinton is

bush says he won't make government bigger and he will do just that...
make government bigger


clinton says he will make it bigger and he will



             why don't we dig up Henry Clay, he's better than
    anyone else and he's dead!


 john stith
From: MEC038@UKCC.UKY.EDU (K=A*T)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: A reformed Death Penalty
Date: 16 Oct 92 11:12:24 GMT
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From:         PHARRIS@UMKCVAX1.BITNET

> .............................. I won many debate rounds with my argument
> that a person convicted to death should be allowed only two appeals.

Aside from the fact that in most cases I am against the death penalty,
I am willing to consider the above proposal, but then I need to
ask only one question.  Let's go over the records.  Out of the last
1000 people who were sentenced to death, how many verdicts were
successfully appealed beyond the second appeal?  Now, are we willing
to execute that many innocent people?  Even if that number is one,
that is still one too many.  Ironically, I agree that the long wait
is cruel most of all to the families of the victims, and then to the
criminal, not to mention the cost and waste of the courts time.
Precisely because of such a inherent inconsistency (short periods
are unreliable, and long ones are costly and cruel) I say that
death penalty is not effective and should not be exercised.

> ............................... I also think that the death penalty be
> instated for repeat offenders, if you rob a bank, or rape, or molest a
> child, or steal a car and  get convicted twice for the same offense, you
> should be considered a person who cannot be rehabilitated.The same goes
> for offenders who have a record as long as their arms. ...

How about those who rob, er embezzle, saving and loans?

                                                        ... I know the
> constitution protects against "cruel and unusual punishments" but they
> are not cruel or unusual compared to the way that they are used in other
> countries. ...

I don't recall this "compared to other countries" qualifier being
in the Constitution.

>         ...In El Salvador, a first offense drunk driving incident is
> punishable by death. Needless to say, El Salvador does not have a drunk
> driving problem. ......................................................

Let me get this straight.  You drink, you drive, you pass the
centerline a bit, you are stopped by the police, "a minute
after your second appeal" and you can be executed?

It is a sad day when it is suggested that we should imitate El
Salvador when treating our citizens.

> Paul Harris

--KAT
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Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 12:47:58 -0700
From:         Andy Freeman <andy@SAIL.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Aztecs

>   Listening to some anti-Columbus people one would think that everything here
>in the New World was perfect, but how grand was it?  On one island emasculated
>young males were fattened to be eaten, women were kept and constantly
>impregnated so that the baby could be feasted upon, and other peoples had
>human sacrafice.

So?  What part of that is "bad", how do we know, and when is that "bad"
relevant?

You folks really aren't giving me a good opening to poke Jamie into
commenting on this month's bed-time book, Jaynes' "The Origin of
Conciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind."  (Last month's
was Weintraub's "Long Day's Journey into War", in honor of a friend
who doing intelligence work in South Korea.  It's got a lot of ammo
for MacArthur haters but doesn't kick the Brits around nearly enough,
probably due to sampling errors.)

-andy
--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
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From: E7L8RAF@TOWSONVX.BITNET (Steve Rafferty)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: the kErry tickEt
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:28:05 GMT
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>In the interest of reasonably full disclosure:

>On behalf of the "stealth" candidates (The Y's Guys), I thought you
>would rest easier at night knowing that at least half of the ticket
>does not watch the "Cosby Show."

This half of the ticket stopped trying to see Cosby once in a while after
Lisa Bonet left the show (y'see).  Have no opinion on the last show - didn't
see it - fine afro american success story - success during the Reagan
administration - can't build, I believe this, a successful sitcom by
raising taxes on the American people, I just don't believe that - Bill
Cosby has character - doesn't trust Bill Clinton, just plain wrong to
watch an American sitcom in a foreign land, maybe I'm old fashioned.

Want to point out, think my running mate agrees with me on this (I think
my friend Ross does too) that it matters little what's on the television
as long as SHOES are off, BEER is cold (though not too cold), and if
there's ^ - well, so much the better.

Comment on Capital Punishment with respect to Victim Impact to solidify
this as a genuine substance free (except ^) Friday band-width waste:

Perhaps to minimize the harm caused by any crime - the entire family
of the victim should be put to death (after two appeals - this is
a civilized society (y'see)) - that way the harm of the crime is
mitigated - after that, who cares what happens to the criminal?

Steve (o'Andy, am I Tic or ket?)

Vote Y's Guys
1-800-4NO-GOVT

>-other Andy
From: PHARRIS@UMKCVAX1.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Attn. Andrew Allen
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:20:11 GMT
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        Though I can appreciate your sarcasm and humor, I resent being
grouped together with the message about reincarnation. Reincarnation
goes against all my beliefs and though the author of that message had a
few points, I dismissed it and let it move on. If you some comments
about the contents of my posting I would love to hear them, but I don't
appreciate being publicly dismissed as an idiot.
Sincerely,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
: Paul Harris              :
: PHARRIS@UMKCVAX1         :
: PHARRIS@VAX1.UMKC.EDU    :
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
: I will sail my vessel    :
: Til the river runs dry   :
: Like a bird upon the wind:
: These waters are my sky. :
:                          :
:       from -The River-   :
:       Garth Brooks       :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
From: TKIDD@CLEMSON.BITNET (Travis Kidd)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: VP debate and such...
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:54:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

On Thu, 15 Oct 1992 10:05:00 EST JCOCURUL@DREW.BITNET said:
>      Though I'm pretty sure this is their justification, I have a
> theory that family leave is a kind of tax, a tax both in the value of
> the time lost and a tax in kind (allowing the people to not be at
> work).  Congress has a right to raise taxes for the "general welfare",
> which this surely is as is the case with social security taxes, which
> aren't that different from this.  Of course, conservatives such as
> Bush didn't like social security or in  Bush's case Medicaid to be
> required.
>
>
>     -Joe

Congress has a right to raise INCOME taxes, (and it still has a right
to collect taxes from the state by proportion to population), but I am
sure this means only monetary taxes.
-Travis
From: MEC038@UKCC.UKY.EDU (K=A*T)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: gun control, kinda'
Date: 15 Oct 92 11:25:04 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

From:         Teddy Jack Eddy <SPRG0002@TULSAJC.BITNET>

>> ....  Now, do you still believe that the victim impact statements
>> should show up in the sentencing phase?  The more children the victim

> Certainly.  I still don't understand why you are against this.

>> has the more years the criminal gets, right?  ........................

> YES.

> I assume your point is that the absentee parent, now locked up, cannot
> properly provide for his own children while in prison.  In the instance
> of a parent that committed violent crime, I would question your definition
> of "provide".  They may be better off with him gone.  The victim impact
> statements do not force the court to sentence any differently, they only
> provide additional information for the decision process.  The judge is
> free to decide the cost/benefit when making his decision.

Of course the victim impact statements do not "force" the court to
sentence any differently, that is understood.  The question was
never that (at least mine), the question is whether those statements
are relevant. I say that those statements should be considered totally
irrelevant in the sentencing phase.  However, in parole hearings such
statements can be considered.

Let me give at least one reason why I disagree with using these
statements in the sentencing phase.  Most of us agree that on of the
purposes of punishment is to deter.  More serious crimes need more
determent and hence stiffer sentences.  When you advocate that
a higher sentence be given to cases with victims with more children,
you are devaluing the life of the person with fewer children by giving him
less protection.

> ---Robert

--KAT
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Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1992 01:45:33 -0400
From:         I am Looking For Signs Of Intelligent Life! Know Any?
              <STUSTITH@EKU.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Aztecs

well... i guess we really could check it out to evolution then.. they
couldn't deal with the new diseases


                    john stith
From: ST402711@BROWNVM.BITNET (Tim Johnson)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: The New Format
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:31:12 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU


  Ya know, I thought that despite the entertainment
value of the Veep debates, there were some problems
with that format and I thought that the moderator of
that debate did a relatively poor job, too.
  Of course, he was a white male.  Undoubtedly that's
why he got the job....

                          -MacTim
From: CDELL@VAX1.UMKC.EDU (VALENTINE M. SMITH)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: the kErry tickEt
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:49:22 GMT
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My wife taped the Cosby show in question, I watched part of it the next day
on the VCR. Too schmaltzy, VMS
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 23:02:00 EDT
From:         CMORRISO@SNYESCVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: post-debate reaction

        Clinton better work on that shit if he doesn't want to be a four-year
wonder like Bush (and Carter).

                                        Chris Morrison
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 09:31:00 EST
From:         linda <SABOE@VUVAXCOM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: _Wings of Eagles_

>Yes, Linda, I read it in 8th grade.  It was a phase I was going through.
>I'm much better now, though.

dear little martin,

i should have made it more obvious what shocked me. you were in 8th grade
5 years ago (sob). i was in 8th grade 28 yrs. ago (openly weeping).


>However, I will live longer than most of the rest of you. :)...

maybe, but i do it so much better now ;).

>Be Seeing You,
>Martin

- linda who can legally enjoy beer every friday and still gets carded on
occasion.
From: STUSTITH@EKU.BITNET (I am Looking For Signs Of Intelligent Life! Know Any?)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: Aztecs
Date: 14 Oct 92 06:19:05 GMT
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you know why they aztecs didn't survive? Evolution.... survival of the
fittest!!!


               john stith
From: KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: Aztecs
Date: 14 Oct 92 12:48:42 GMT
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john:
>you know why they aztecs didn't survive? Evolution.... survival of the
>fittest!!!

I'm not sure what your point is (if it's a "natural" process, the
consequences are acceptable?), but your continued attempts to explain the
demise of the Aztecs as a consequence of natural selection reveal little
more than an incomplete understanding of the processes you invoke.  Trust
me on this :)

Thanks
Kerry
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Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 01:10:11 -0400
From:         I am Can Be Worshiped By Check Or Money Order Or Cash
              <STUSTITH@EKU.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: CAU$E$ OF WAR$

conspiracies get better all the time
what about the conspiracy of the Braves winning the series?


            John S.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:19:00 EDT
From:         CMORRISO@SNYESCVA.BITNET
Subject:      RE: No joke!

        Anybody who talks about "leftwing, liberal, unrealistic world of
academia" obviously hasn't been reading much of the mail on this list for
very long.  I wish you were back workin' in the oilfield, too, but go ahead
and post.  It doesn't bother me.  I just wish there were more overseas
people on the list.  I think it is too American.

                                        Chris Morrison
From: KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: this morning's ABC poll, +/- 10%
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:11:30 GMT
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Jamie:
Now, remembering that I was still asleep and hadn't had even a sip of
coffee yet -- what I heard was that the ABC poll showed the Clinton lead
down to 7 points.  I *think* the numbers were Clinton 44%, Bush 37%, Perot
15%.  Since I don't normally catch the ABC poll, I don't know how this
compares to their earlier ones (and of course I wouldn't dream of comparing
today's ABC poll to yesterday's CNN poll!).

Happy Friday!
Kerry
and Steve Bratten is a very nice guy and we're lucky to have him around :)
but, Steve, the person who said "nice to meetcha" is a she.
From: NY911179@PACEVM.BITNET (Mark Susskind)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Evils?
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:03:21 GMT
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X-Acknowledge-To: <NY911179@PACEVM>

For whomever signs  off hisher notes with something like,  "The least of
all evils is still evil," please inform me as to what then is 'good'.

Catch y'later!
Mark R. Susskind - Mr. MRS
(The Still-Undecided for President)
<NY911179 @ PACEVM.BITNET>
"GOP helps those who help themselves." -- author unknown
From: JPERRY@ERS.BITNET (Janet Perry)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Who's scarier?
Date: 14 Oct 92 16:18:36 GMT
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Damn! Freudian slip... I meant Stockdale... not StockWELL?
--Janet
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:16:32 EST
From:         macphil <IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU>
Subject:      Re: hmph
Comments: To: Forum for the Discussion of Politics <POLITICS@OHSTVMA.IUPUI.EDU>

On Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:22:08 -0500 <ANTHLAL@UMNACVX> said:
>
>clinton is losing his voice.  do i sense.....(threatening music)....
>S   A   B   O   T   A   G   E   ?   ?   ?

Probably the handiwork of the progeny of those in the CIA rumoured to
have been working on shoe polish which would have made Castro's beard
fall out.

"gore Clinton in '92"
From: CMORRISO@SNYESCVA.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: RE: quayle and gore mosh it up; stockdale chaperones
Date: 14 Oct 92 02:57:00 GMT
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        Yeah, you're right about that Stockdale line "What am I doing here?"
Sounded like panic to me.  And when he talked about having the confidence
of the Lord (he didn't quite refer to him as that), it sounded like he was
talking about Jesus.  But of course he was talking about ol' Ross.

        I also remember the old Quayle, when he would speak in a strange
tone of voice and giggle in strange places -- I wonder if there is any truth
in the stories that guy tells about selling him pot every week.

                                        Chris Morrison
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From: jwales@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (jimmy donal wales)
Subject: Re: Guns, Freud, and Psychology
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 13:30:57 GMT

I do not own any guns; I rather doubt that I ever will.

I think that the right to own guns is extremely important, and ought
to be very carefully respected.

I find Michael Morse's comments about Freudian psychology and guns
to be quite pointless.  Accusing one's opponents of psychological
problems amounts to nothing more than ad hominem.  Poisoning the 
well does little to help this little intellectual drink of water.

"Don't listen to Andy's arguments.  Don't listen to any facts or
figures he might cite.  After all, he LIKES guns.  And you know
what Freud said about sex and guns, eh? eh? eh?"

Come on, Michael.  You can do better than that.

--Jimbo




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