From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Subject: Re: more guts
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 11:07:44 EST


06-Jan-93 21:52	jchristian@desire.wright.edu	Re: guts and spirits
>Would it be wrong to assume that you're reading this board because you have an
>interest in what other people think?  And are you suggesting that we shouldn't
>bother reading books because they're essentially useless?

I read for interest and a question and apply what interests me.  This has
nothing to do with the recitation of Nietzche with the presumption that his
words represent some form of enlightenment.  Believe me, I hope we all assume
that none of us is "enlightened."   Not that I rule out the *possibility* that
one among us may be "enlightened" but I do not even trust myself to recognize
enlightenment, let alone trust that someone else can provide it through the
words of another.

>Careful.  Quoting from a book like that will make it sound like an
>intellectual pursuit on your part, and you wouldn't want that.

The difference between the Vedas and *anything* western is *practice*.  The
Vedas have an associated *practice* which can yield defined physiological
changes.  Westerners talk, or they go to church, where while they may sing,
blab, or at best pretend their speaking foreign languages as they writhe on
the floor--have no practice with defined physiological outcomes such as in
meditation with breathing exercises.

>Why doesn't the soul need a body? 

Why doesn't electricity need a light bulb?  It just don't hunny.

>The Hindu aspiration to achieve atman exists
>in part because we have a mortal form.  Is there a reason why the soul 
>inhabits the body?  

The short answer IMHO is "for the soul to learn that existence is not
contingent on material sustenance."  But who cares?  It's not mine to say for
you.  It is for you to discover if you will.

>Fortunately for most of us, we can go through life expressing our opinions
>without people asking us who the hell we are and how the hell do we know.  And

You really meant to say "Unfortunately for most of us..." right?  How else
does one become anything more than a big pompous blowhard unless others
question the validity of his statements.  I wasn't really advocating patent
rudeness afterall.  It's just that I take offense at citations of The Big
Name(tm) while The Big Name(tm) may in fact have no real substance.  In any
serious philosophically critical discussion, it is incumbent on the
participants to question--in my view anyway.

>I think you're being broad in your generalizations.  Do you have the same
>criticisms of Einstein's philosophies of being and reality, while we're
>discussing egghead Germans?
 
Ah, see?  Big Name(tm)...   Yes, I have some of the same criticisms of
Einstein.  You see, essentially we are flying through space on a ball of dirt.
No one's theories may have value in this context.  Tell me, define "progress"
given the context I have set above.  Perhaps Einstein's ideas have tremendous
value, perhaps not.  They have certainly been put to some *uses* by our
military and industrial state.  But I am a mere mortal, living out my days on
this planet.  At any given time I may face my death.  E=MC@+(2) has no value
to me in this context.  Perhaps it describes something useful if I could piece
it together with something related to dealing with my own mortality?
Fundamentally I think it is a form of fun masturbation however.  We are all
just actors after all.  You may never see this place again.

>Wow.  You've got a serious case of anti-West paranoia going for you.  I'll be
>the first to agree that Westerners have their hangups and that talking a lot
>is one of them, but you're sadly mistaken if you don't think a similar spirit
>of debate and speculation doesn't happen in the East. 

You're right, I am prejudiced towards the east.  Your argument only says to me
that some people in the east have fallen victim to their intellects--just like
in the west.  So what?  What matters is what is, and no one can *tell* you what
is--east or west.  No one can answer the question "why are we here?"  Only you
can possibly answer it for yourself, but it ain't western formal logic that is
going to answer it at all--never.  Using mathematical formalisms to assess our
lives is like fishing with a toothpick, you might get something, but not much
fish.  As far as western philosphy goes, forget it.   

> If you can spare a
>moment of anti-intellectualism and pick up a few books, you'll find quite a
>number of interesting intellectual arguments that have been generated from
>Eastern minds.

In fact, if we are simply talking about populations, I don't feel that, in
general, easterners have much of an edge over westerners.  However, if we're
talking about maturity of philosophy and the inherent opportunity that
easterners have with respect to their home philosophies, then I say they are
way ahead of us.