HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thuang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tze-yau Huang)
Subject: Re: Can we not all get along?
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 22:27:08 GMT

In article <78426@ut-emx.uucp> joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:
>In article <1992Aug23.164350.6241@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> thuang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tze-yau Huang) writes:
>>Let's go back to your orignal attack on Taiwan nationalism.  What is
>>your problem with it?
>
>My basic point is that if overseas Taiwanese wish to instill in their
>children, a regard for the homeland, that homeland can't consistently
>be Taiwan, it has to be big China.
>
You have no legitimate reason to say this here.

First, some Taiwanese Hakka escaped from China to Taiwan more than one
millinium ago and historials are arguing wether Hakka were originated
from China proper or entered China from North Asia long time ago.  For
Taiwanese Holo, genetic analysis points out that they are more likely to
be a sinicized Yue people but the analysis is blurred by the
intermarriage of Holo and Taiwanese Pinpu (Austronesian or
Proto-Malayo-Polinesian).  There is no reason to choose China
particularly as homeland while there were intermarriages and migrations.
Also, there is no such thing as big China.  There is China Proper, the
region that has been consistantly populated by Han population ruled
effectively by the Chinese Dynasties.  These is the China ruled
effectively by the PRC.

Nevertheless, your objection has nothing to do with Taiwanese
nationalism.

TY Huang
From: who@austlcm.sps.mot.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: The foreign minister of prc said:Re to George He
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:32:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: oakhill.1992Sep2.153228.3722
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin, Texas

In article <1992Sep2.003825.6931@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>In article <BtxAnI.7xK@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> ACHEN@ucs.indiana.edu writes:
>>The tiny island of Taiwan cannot survive economically without a
>>market who will buy its products.  All export oriented economies
>>are doomed to failure without a bigger country such as the USA
>>which can buy their products.  It is foolish to try to advocate
>>an independent Taiwan.  An independent Taiwan could survive economically
>>only if America has enough money to buy its products.  If 
>>America collapses then so goes the independent Taiwan. 
>>
>>So it is better to make friends with your brothers in the
>>mainland, rather than calling them nasty names.  The next 
>>century belongs to Asia and the Pacific Rim countries.  America
>>is already past its prime.  In the future it is China, not
>>America who will be Taiwan's biggest trade partner.  Remember,
>>the Chinese are not our enemy.  The white man is the true
>>enemy of all Chinese.  
>After WWII, philipine had the richest living standard in Asia. But Philipine 
>became independent from U.S., further away from Communism nation comparing
>Korea, Taiwan, SouthVietName, got much less market support from U.S., living
>standard declined drastically to the bottom of Asia. Taiwan will be in the 
>same fate if not suportted by a big market.

Mr. Shi:

       I try very hard to make sense of your statements, but fail. Please help 
me to understand what you mean.

       First, what do you mean by "After WWII, philipine had the richest living 
standard in Asia?"  Second, by saying "Philipine became independent from U.S., 
further away from Communism nation....", are you suggesting that U.S. is/was a 
communism country?  

       Thank you in advance.
From: v999qx29@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Language
Date: 29 Aug 92 04:26:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


   Is it a sin to speak one's mother language in the public where most
of the people are of the same language group but there happened to be
some 'new-comers(only 40 years compare to 100 years and up)' who for
some reason never learned to understand that language.
   It sounds absurd if the language is not Taiwanese. But ...............
...................................
   There was a joke that someone ordered chicken noodle in a restaurant then,
after the waiter brought him the noodle, he changed his order to beef noodle
and returned the chicken noodle. After he finished the meal he refused to pay
because the beef noodle was the substitute for that chicken noodle . So, he 
didn't have to pay for the beef noodle. As to the chicken noodle, he didn't
eat it at all. So he didn't have to pay for it either.
   Seeing Taiwanese language gradually fading away, I am just like that puzzled
waiter feeling unfair but stopped by that fierce-looking customer's unquestion-
able answer. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Subject: Bush decides to allow sale of F-16s to Taiwan
Organization: Multimedia Information Systems Corporation, San Jose, CA                        TEL: (408) 437-3031            E-mail: info@multisys.com
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 20:48:52 GMT


Quote from today San Jose Mercury,

"The president is expected to make an official  annocement  today
during a trip to Texas."

"A spokesman for Sen Lloyd Bentsen, D-Texas, said  Tuseday  night
that  the  senator  had  been "reliably informed" that Bush would
make public his approval for the sale of F-16s to  Taiwan  during
his campaign swing in Texas."

Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:12588 soc.culture.korean:4087
From: junglee@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Jung S. Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Korean Airline flights unwelcome in Taiwanese Airspace, etc. [FWD]
Date: 29 Aug 92 23:22:23 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.korean
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1992Aug28.112717.3668@vax.muskingum.edu>, ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department) writes:
> 
> 	   If there is no "standard" (I didn't use this word, you did)
> 	   principles, how should you treat your girlfriend? 
> 
I must ask you who sets the standard? Who?
I set my principle according to what I believe, feel and know.
And probably my girl friend does that, too.
If there is standard principle among people, everyone can have
relationship with anyone without any problem for ever.
Because principle of individual is different, people are always
searching one who has similar principle with him. 

> 	   Could similar questions be applied to international relations? 

So which country sets standard principle for international relationship?
Simply yours doesn't make any sense whatsoever. 

Jung S. Lee
From: liuc@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Chia-Liang Liu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Culture: Myths and Legends
Keywords: a-sen-sai, Liao Tiam-ding, Bak-Gang ma tso
Date: 26 Aug 92 03:43:56 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: U.C. Davis - Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering

In article <1992Aug25.020437.23791@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> philliao@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Hsin-Chao Phil Liao) writes:
>Hello,
>
>I have heard lots of stories regarding the following things
>since I was a little kid.  I have forgotten them all.  Maybe
>someone could re-tell these things to me.  People who don't 
>speak Taiwanese might want to skip this article.
>
>1) Who is A-sen-sai ("a good-hearted lion")?  And what did he do?
>

There was a serial drama on TV called Sai-Lei-Tsit-Kam.
Ah-Sen-Sai is the (martial art) teacher of seven Sai-Lei-Lang
live in seven different Kams. I don't know whether it's a true
story. But the drama was very popular and lasted very long.

>2) Who is Liao Tiam-ding?  What did he do?
>

Liao T'iam-Ting IS a Gi-Tsat when Japan occupied Taiwan. He usually
stole the rich and helped the poor. He MAKE Japanese cops very
T'ao T'ian.

>3) What are the stories regarding Bak-Gang Ma Tso and Dai-Ga Ma Tso?
>   Are they the same?  What is the relationship between them if they 
>   are different?
>

M Tsai.

>4) For those Sai-Lei-Lang out there, if I am not the only one,
>   what is the relationship between those Ma Tso's and Sin-Ge 
>   Lao Dwa Ma in Sai-Lei.  (Sai-Lei is Hsi-Lo in Taiwanese).
>

Gua M Si Sai-Lei Lang.

>I think these questions are interesting enough for people to 
>reply thru rn rather than email.
>
>- Phil  (philliao@cory.berkeley.edu)


-- 
Ka-Leung Lau ( Chia-Liang Liu )
Digital Communications Research Laboratory
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering 
University of California, Davis (Cal Aggies)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: wcn@cs.brown.edu (Wen-Chun Ni)
Subject: Re: Taipei has terminated the diplomatic relationships between ROC and S. Korea.
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 05:27:55 GMT

In article <1992Aug23.063426.12640@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>
>According to the Taiwanese newscast here (transmitted by satellite), Seoul
>and Beijing announced that they had established formal diplomatic relationship
>yesterday.  Seoul accepted Beijing's conditions, namely that the current
>Taiwanese embassy would be turned over to the PRC, and that South Korea would
>only recognize one China (namely, the Beijing government).  However, Seoul
>did not terminate the diplomatic relationship in the protocol.
>
>A few hours later, Taipei made these responses:
>
>1.	Taipei terminated the diplomatic relationship with Seoul.
>2.	All Korean Airline flights would become unwelcome in Taiwanese
>	airspace (save in cases of emergency, I suppose, as per international
>	protocol).  China Airlines and Chang Ron (sp) would terminate their
>	flights to Korea by the 16th of September, when Korean Airlines
>	flights would also be terminated.
>3.	All preferential treatment to Korea in the areas of commerce and trade
>	would be terminated.  (The newscast wasn't clear on if that would
>	only include the specific preferential treatments, or that the most
>	favored nation tariff status would also be terminated)
>
>If I get some more info, I will probably post them.

Something interesting here, and this should be unexpected to Seoul.
I think Taipei has been expecting the expiration of diplomatic
relation between Taiwan and S. Korea, so the above responses are
all quick and effective. The points are:

(1) S. Korea is not so important to Taiwan in terms of economy.
    Maybe Seoul wants to follow the patterns of US and Japan,
    but the S Korean government over-emphasized its importance
    in Taiwan's outward relationships.
(2) The hauting rumour of S. Korea-China liasons have been endangered
    the mutual understanding of both governments. Just because
    too many lies from the mouths of Korean offcials.
(3) The impact on Taiwan is relatively small because 
     a. the current relation between mainland China and Taiwan and
     b. money talks, and
     c. Taiwanese are very accustomed to such kind of diplomatic
	defeats ;-)


Folks, nothing special. Return to your normal life.




Wen-Chun Ni
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: The Foreign Minister of PRC said ...
Date: 31 Aug 92 21:59:31 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Aug31.182901.13892@zip.eecs.umich.edu>, cyc@z.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang) writes...
>>>Also the fact is U.S. government has expressed many times for opposition of 
>>>Taiwan Independence. And China is not Iraqi, Lybia, or Panama. Military 
>>>confrontation with China can be very costly to the U.S. 
>>>
> 
>But U.S. has also expressed countless times that Taiwan's problem should be
>resolved peacefully. One comment to those stubborn Chinese, westerners
>believe people are granted the right to live, to decide their own future,
>to make decisions on their own business. 

You are absolutely correct, did I deny that? Unfortunately, this did not
change the fact that U.S. does not support Taiwan Independence at least 
for now.

>Taiwanese are granted to decide
>and choose whatever they want to do. It's none of China's business, period.

It can be also said "Taiwanese are granted to decide and choose whatever 
they want to do. It's none of American business, period." :-)

>Not as costly as what American have lost in WWI, WWII, Korea war, Vietnan
>war, or even the recent Gulf war. 
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

U.S. lost less than 50 service men/women in the recent Gulf war, so based
on your estimation U.S. will lose 49 or less if she has full scale military 
confrontation with China. What a military genius! :-)

>BTW, what is the cost of freedom and democracy ?

Freedom and democracy are invaluable. 

>>>Since tension in the East Asia region has been greatly reduced these several 
>>>years, U.S. has no reason to recognize Taiwan Independence at the risk of 
>>>her own interest.
> 
>Freedom and democracy is the central of American's interest.
>If you think American will trade business opportunity with freedom and
>democracy, give me a break.

Mmmm, then how do you explain the following facts:

Mainland China is neither free nor democratic U.S. government is still 
granting her the most favorable trade status every year. U.S. did not 
fight for Afganistan as she did for Kuwait when Afganistan lost freedom 
and democracy in 1979.

BTW, I have nothing to against U.S. (certainly, not to Taiwan, either).

Tom
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: The foreign minister of prc said:Re to George He
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 00:38:25 GMT

In article <BtxAnI.7xK@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> ACHEN@ucs.indiana.edu writes:
>The tiny island of Taiwan cannot survive economically without a
>market who will buy its products.  All export oriented economies
>are doomed to failure without a bigger country such as the USA
>which can buy their products.  It is foolish to try to advocate
>an independent Taiwan.  An independent Taiwan could survive economically
>only if America has enough money to buy its products.  If 
>America collapses then so goes the independent Taiwan. 
>
>So it is better to make friends with your brothers in the
>mainland, rather than calling them nasty names.  The next 
>century belongs to Asia and the Pacific Rim countries.  America
>is already past its prime.  In the future it is China, not
>America who will be Taiwan's biggest trade partner.  Remember,
>the Chinese are not our enemy.  The white man is the true
>enemy of all Chinese.  
After WWII, philipine had the richest living standard in Asia. But Philipine 
became independent from U.S., further away from Communism nation comparing
Korea, Taiwan, SouthVietName, got much less market support from U.S., living
standard declined drastically to the bottom of Asia. Taiwan will be in the 
same fate if not suportted by a big market.
From: ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Han people adn Chinese?
Date: 3 Sep 92 10:36:41 -0600
Organization: Muskingum College

In article <BtwpL6.Ds0@multisys.com>, rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) writes:
> 
> Because there was never a Chinese exist before ROC.

	** Whatever they were, they are Chinese since 1911.
> 
> Even today, not many people understand what 'Chinese' mean  under
> KMT's sophisticated brainwashing.

	** I do. More people do than who don't.
	   If you don't believe it, make a test. 
> 
> Basically, Han people just do not understand Nationalism.  If you
> are  the  center of the world, why you need Nationalism.  Nationa
> is an artificial product of western civilization.  To Han people,
> they only know Han and non-Han, and different people among Han.
> 
	** I think you are a little bit dizzy.

	   The boundary between Han and non-Han is a kind of nationalism.
From: pchang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Pei-Yuan Chang)
Subject: 18 Biou (1)
Summary: TW's latest news
Keywords: Bribery
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 18:13:56 GMT

  For people who wanna know somethinfg about 18 "Biou", here is some
feelings of ordinary people in TW on this case.   From my friend's (who is in 
TW) letter received yesterday, Jan(3), yo(4)-hsing(1), minister of the 
Transporation Department, is alleged taking bribery from lots of construction
company in TW, such as "Pai(3) Er(4) Kao(1)" (the second highway, section of
north TW), and "TPE trasnsmit system" (source from the front page of 8/19 China
Times Daily)

  There was a TV press conference for Jan on 8/18.  According to my friend's
description, Jan's "lousy mouth and face show his guilt" (sorry, too 
subjective, but...)  Besides, Jan showed that nobody could get any evidence for
the bribery and proud of it.  So TW CIA swaered to get evidence and kick Jan
out of his present position.

  Anyone who has more details please post them for us, thanks!

--Christine
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: TI
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 17:17:25 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.163629.1296@bradford.ac.uk> H.Wang@bradford.ac.uk (H WANG) writes:

>Anyone interested in the ORIGINAL posting please e-mail to me
>for a complete copy.
>
>Copyright reserved by the author.  No one has the right 
>to cite the posting without author's permission.

And by posting it on Usenet, you are, by inference, giving permission.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: kemnitz@netcom.com (Greg Kemnitz)
Subject: Re: HELP!!! Finding a Chinese Wordprocessor for PC
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 07:07:26 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Keywords: help

In article <BtCntD.1wJ@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tj32633@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Ronin) writes:
=Hi, I need help finding a Chinese Wordprocessor for the PC either shareware or
=commercial.  If you have any info on where I can get one and the price, I would
=really appreciate it!!!
=
=Thanks in advance!!!!!!

The Taiwan Ministry of Education's (Jiao4Yu4Bu4) anonymous FTP file
server in Taipei is moers2.edu.tw.  Most of the information there is
in Big5 code.   (I think it is very wise of the Ministry of Education
to establish this file server and to encourage Taiwan/worldwide growth
of computer networks.)  Poke around the ahkcus.org anonymous FTP site
for the software to use to read the Big5-encoded Chinese characters.
Perhaps the easiest (Unix) way to read Chinese netnews is under
cxterm, distributed with X Windows, but I don't know.
 
To get a load of help files [some also oriented to telling you how to
read the Mainland China GuoBiao Chinese character set]
Send the line: GET CMHELP PACKAGE
To  : LISTSERV@UGA.BITNET   or:  listserv@uga.cc.uga.edu (internet)
 
| FROM:  HUANG, CHIH-HSIEN      at      NATIONAL CHIAO TUNG UNIVERSITY



In the US:
 
   ahkcus.org  [192.55.187.25]
       [Directories indicated in parentheses]
       Articles in BIG5 from HKU (big5/),
       IFCSS Newsletters in GB (gb/ifcss-nl/),
       CND Chinese Magazine in GB (gb/cnd-cm/, no articles in this
       directory yet),
       CND archives(English) (cnd-g/, cnd-us/, cnd-ca/, cnd-ep/)
       HKU Chinese News utilities (src/), GB<->BIG5 conversion utilities for
       unix and vms (src/, src/vms/),
       BYX1.1 Chinese Editor (src/)
 
   blackbox.hacc.washington.edu [128.95.200.1]
        pub/poorman/
        Poorman's TeX (Chinese and Japanese supported)
 
   crl.nmsu.edu [128.123.1.14]
        pub/chinese/
        pub/chinese/fonts/
        pub/misc/
        Chinese X11 fonts, ChTeX, this file, kterm 4.1.2,
        dvi2ps that works with ChTeX
        Poor Man's TeX (GB and Big5 support)
 
   cs.purdue.edu [128.10.2.1]
        pub/ygz/
        cxterm, celvis, cless, cclib16* fonts
 
   ftphost.cac.washington.edu [128.95.112.1]
        pub/
        chinese.tar.Z - assorted programs [some programs duplicated
                        from june.cs.washington.edu]
 
   hanauma.stanford.edu [36.51.0.16]
        pub/zhongwen/
        beijing24.bdf, Pinyin pronunciation tables,
        Pinyin->GB code table
 
   msdos.archive.umich.edu [141.211.165.34]
        msdos/foreign_lang/chinese/
        Duke Chinese Typist (dct*.arc)
 
   neon.stanford.edu [36.28.0.92]
        incomming/ChTeX.tar.Z
        M. Pinghua Young's version with LaTeX font support
 
In Sweden:
 
   kth.se [130.237.72.201]
        Mirrors of some of the above sites and other stuff.
From: sldz4@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: RE: a joke,just a joke
Date: 30 Aug 92 14:28:16 MDT
Organization: Utah State University


>If you are a Korean, please replace Hyundai with Feeling 101.
>One of my American friends told me this joke:

>One day a police arrested a driver and accused him of intending 
>to murder because of overspeeding to 160 mph. The murderous tool
>is a Hyundai Excel.

>In adjudgement,a Hyundai technician was called to test the car.
>At last the driver was announced innocent, because that technician
>said, "It's impossible for a Hyundai to run that fast."

I'm certain that this joke came from Rodney King trial.
In my best recollection, the guy from Hyundai Motor America said
maximum reading of that model speedometer is 120 mph.  

>Just a joke, don't take it serious.

Hyundai Excel, nothing compare with most of american cars.

>Jesse
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Independence of Taiwan: a Suggestion
Date: 1 Sep 92 03:04:10 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <BtrxC2.7Dx@multisys.com>, rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) writes...
>In article <1992Aug28.121700.9011@nuscc.nus.sg> elelyc@nuscc.nus.sg (Y.C. Liang) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug27.171038.8569@bradford.ac.uk> H.Wang@bradford.ac.uk (H WANG) writes:
> 
>The fact is Taiwan is an independent country over hundred years.

Hundred years? How did you get this number? :-)

>Take my advice, move those KMT to KMT's own Mongolia, or
>KMT's own Tibet, or KMT's own Mainland China and let

There are millions of KMT members in Taiwan, are they all included?

Tom
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.korean
From: phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi)
Subject: Dear fellow Koreans (genetically speaking)
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 16:28:20 GMT

Dear fellow Koreans: 

Please read the following and think twice before you ignore the posted
signs.  The rule is Korea is not what is posted, but what you can get away
with.  But in this country (U.S.), what is posted is usually voluntarily
respected.

In article <1992Aug28.200123.28693@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> tylee@austin.ibm.com (Ter-Yuan Lee) writes:
[...]
>Yes, that's true for some of the South Korean male students smoking publicly
>in the lounge, stairways, rest rooms, ... where there are signs banning 
>smoking.
[...]
>\* Ter-Yuan Lee                                                           */

It is true that you can smoke anywhere you like and no one bothers you most
of the time.  However, do not assume that you are not bothering anyone.
People in this countries are too polite to walk up to you and tell you to
get the hell out.  They usually leave.  The fact that they left does not
mean you are smoking in peace.  These accumulated incidents come back to
you and the rest of the race as "rude Koreans" and *I* have to share the
blame as you see below.

Smoker's health is not my concern.  It just stinks too much.  It is
equivalent to being with someone who did not take bath for a long long
time.  It stinks so bad that the smell stays in my cloth and my hair.  The
smell lingers for a long time after you leave the scene.  Even outdoor is
not completely safe from your neighbors curse depending on the direction of
the wind.

Maybe everyone has right for their own pleasure.  But not at someone else's
expense.  And certainly not at damaging the whole Koreans' impression.
Imagine how an ordinary American will react to a Korean applicant after
he/she has been fed up with Korean smokers?  Sure, it will be a racism if
he/she judges you with his/her past experience.  But all of us know how the
real world works.

James Choi