HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: sci.chem
Subject: Re: Heavy water separation
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:06:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: engage.1992Nov5.160813.23748
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In article <1992Nov5.095320.16450@neptune.inf.ethz.ch>, cohen@cumuli.vmsmail.ethz.ch (Mark Cohen) writes...
>I'm sure that you are right about the gravity thing but you have forgotten
>the evaporation aspect. At a guess what people (the Germans?) would have
>been after would be baths that were continuously filled with evaporation as
>the only source of water loss.

Out of curiosity, what is the difference in concentration of D in the
ocean, salt lakes etc. where water has been lost to evaporation for
eons, compared to fresh/rainwater?

-Mike
Xref: sparky sci.chem:4461 sci.physics:18364
Newsgroups: sci.chem,sci.physics
Subject: Wanted: Huglin's Light Scattering Text
From: pollack@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Steven Pollack)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 14:43:22 GMT
Organization: University of Cincinnati

Hi:

	Does anyone have a copy of Huglin's "Light Scattering of Polymer
Solutions" to sell or know of a source for used textbooks that might have
it?  Please, no ripped off library copies or totally moth-eaten ones
either.  Please contact me via e-mail rather then wasting the bandwidth.


_______________________________________________________________________
Steven K. Pollack               |
University of Cincinnati        |
Department of Materials Science |   I notice that you are still
  & Engineering                 |   using polymers!
498 Rhodes Hall  ML#12          |     - Lt. Commander Montgomery Scott
Cincinnati, OH 45221-0012       |       U.S.S. Enterprise
spollack@ester.mse.uc.edu       |
________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: sci.chem
From: "david gebhardt" <david.gebhardt@canrem.com>
Subject: picric acid explosion
Reply-To: "david gebhardt" <david.gebhardt@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: sci
Date: 5 Nov 92 00:48:15 EST

On 11-04-92 at 11:08am, Lc2b+ wrote to All:

L+>Secondly, CO is more stable at high temperatures than CO2. It will tend
L+>to predominate.

Well, I expect you will end up with more CO than CO2 eventually. But the
conversion to CO2 gives of 3.5 times as much heat as the conversion to
CO. So unless other products are making up for the large difference, or
the reaction involves the production of many more moles of CO than CO2,
I would expect CO2 to be present initially.

My question is whether the requirement for large amounts of energy will
offset the favourability of CO over CO2. The two characteristics of the
explosion will be high exothermicity and high temperature. This will be
followed by a rapid drop in energy and a rapid drop in heat (at least
in the suurrounding area). The temperature probably does not drop
quickly enough to prevent the formation of CO, but how much is likely to
be formed? Will it actually predominate?

L+>Thirdly, don't forget energetic oddballs like HO. It's almost silly to

True, but you have to start somewhere in determining possible reaction
products. <g>

David Gebhardt
ComputerPlus
---
  DeLuxe 1.25 #8170  This message will self-destruct in 30 seconds.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: sci.chem
From: "david gebhardt" <david.gebhardt@canrem.com>
Subject: picric acid explosion
Reply-To: "david gebhardt" <david.gebhardt@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: sci
Date: 5 Nov 92 00:48:15 EST

On 11-04-92 at 12:01pm, A. Mcpherson wrote to All:

AM>In addition to the major combustion products one would describe by
AM>formula on paper, there would also be many minor combustions products
AM>due to the fact that real combustions are never ideal (complete).
AM>HCN is a good example, since it can have observable effects on
AM>animal health, depending on weather and other factors.

And this, of course, is true of almost any reaction.

There arises an interesting question. I've never seen a combustion that
didn't involve oxygen, and since we got onto a theoretical discussion
where there is an absence of oxygen, would the reaction still be
considered a combustion?

David Gebhardt
ComputerPlus
---
  DeLuxe 1.25 #8170  He who laughs last didn't understand the joke.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: sci.chem
From: joec@fid.morgan.com (Joe Collins)
Subject: Re: Gold dust a fire hazard?
Organization: None
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 14:44:39 GMT

In article <1du09jINNq08@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ce698@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (A. McPherson) writes:
>
>i am no expert in this area, but most dusts are flammable when finely divided.
>in fact, many have measurable explosivity ranges, depending on the particle
>size and test method. an interesting literature source is "Explosibility tests
>for Industrial Dusts", Fire Research Technical Paper No. 21, which can be 
>ordered from the Application Services Division, Building Research Establishment,
>Garston, Watford, WD2 7JR, UK.  to get a feeling for burning metals, one need
>not look any further than the effects of the exocet missles on some of the
>vessel hulls in the Falklands war.

For something to be flammable implies it will burn. In order for something
to burn, this usually means it oxidizes. Paper burns, i.e. the various
components of paper (Carbon, Nitrogen, Hydrogen, etc) combine with oxygen
in a vigorous way. 

The UK ship had an aluminum body and Aluminum is a fairly reactive metal.
Aluminum will readily burn under the right conditions and the only reason
it doesn't corrode is that Aluminum oxide (rust) quickly seals the metal.
With iron, the Iron Oxide doesn't seal the underlying metal and thus this
form of rust quickly corrodes through the metal - which is why iron must
be painted - to keep water and oxygen away from it so it can't rust.

When that exocet missle hit the hull, the ignition temperature of the
Aluminum was reached and the metal burned rather vigorously indeed. Anyone who
has seen Thermite burn (Aluminum+Iron Oxide => Iron + Aluminum Oxide + HEAT)
can appreciate how well Aluminum will burn.

Back to the question, less active metals like Gold, Silver would be
fairly unlikely to burn under most circumstances while more active
metals will burn with various degrees of difficulty. Magnesium is a rather
active metal and burns quite nice. Iron and Copper are less active and burn
with more difficulty. For a novelty, water can be made to burn, but it
requires an atmosphere of Fluorine. [Water is just hydrogen that has
burned, i.e. been oxidized into water].

I'm no expert either but thats my recollection from my university days when
I was a chem major.

Joe
joec@morgan.com

Newsgroups: sci.chem
From: ckp@netcom.com (Charles Pooley)
Subject: Re: Ethanol fuel
Summary: Ethanol fuel, morality of...
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:31:40 GMT

In article <BxKw9B.C63@news.cs.andrews.edu>, maierc@edmund.cs.andrews.edu (Christopher Maier) writes:
> I'm interested in getting info on any current research in alcohol fuels.
> primarily ethanol production.  Is anyone out there involved in this type
> of work?  If not, does anyone know of anyone who I could correspond with
> (E-mail or letters).
> 
> Please, no cracks about "...my grandpappy down in West Virgina's got
> this still..."   :)
> 
> Chris Maier                     maierc@andrews.edu
> Andrews U.

I've for a long time felt that using ethanol produced by fermentation is
fundamentaly immoral.  Using food production capacity (crops, vegetable
matter, soil, skill and crop-growing labor, etc) to feed automobiles in
competition with people will eventually pit automobiles against the hungry.

  Let people ear what grows upon the ground and cars burn what comes from
underground.           How 'bout that?
-- 
Charles Pooley                  ckp@netcom.com    GEnie  c.pooley
EE consultant, Los Angeles, CA
Newsgroups: sci.chem
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
Subject: Re: Heavy water separation
Organization: Computer Science Department University of Rochester
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 12:11:25 GMT

In article <bobert.721085131@godzilla> bobert@informix.com (Robert Murphy) writes:

> I understand that some of the Canadian nuclear
> plants make their own fresh heavy water by fractional distillation of water
> from the St. Lawrence Seaway.

I don't think this is quite right.  The Canadians make their
heavy water by a thermochemical process.  They exploit the
fact that the equilibrium constant of the reaction

	H2S + HDO <--> HDS + H2O

is temperature dependent.  Similar processes are available
that use ammonia or amines.  These processes require large
low-grade heat inputs, which I believe (in the case of the
Canadians) is nuclear.

After the deuterium has been concentrated, there is much less mass to
manipulate, so they go to the higher yield (but more expensive)
techniques of vacuum distillation and electrolysis (for the final
cleanup).  The chemical processes are cheaper but of rather low
yield.

Due to the slowdown of the nuclear industry, the Canadians have
accumulated a large stockpile of heavy water.  A part of this is going
to be loaned for use in the Sudbury Neutrino Observatory, which will
have 200 tons of heavy water in a deep underground cavity in the
nickel mining district near Sudbury, Ontario.  The deuterium makes the
system more sensitive to neutrinos of lower energies (and different
flavors) than light water.

	Paul F. Dietz
	dietz@cs.rochester.edu
From: lobanov@pine.circa.ufl.edu (LOBANOV)
Newsgroups: sci.chem
Subject: hybridization of oxygen
Date: 6 Nov 92 15:01:34 GMT
Reply-To: lobanov@pine.circa.ufl.edu
Organization: University of Florida  (ufl.edu)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

Does anybody know the literature reference about what hybridization states
have oxygen atoms in RCOOH if they have any hybridization at all?

Victor Lobanov (lobanov@pine.circa.ufl.edu)
From: mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson)
Newsgroups: sci.chem
Subject: Re: Gold dust a fire hazard?
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 18:00:00 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Nov12.221840.13881@ncsu.edu> <1992Nov13.033411.22073@dsuvax.dsu.edu>

After the finely powdered gold burns in air, what do you get in the
form of ash?  Surely not gold oxide.
From: nuke@reed.edu (Bill Newcomb)
Newsgroups: sci.chem
Subject: Re: Need help with ID'ing a chemical
Date: 7 Nov 92 06:44:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov7.064459.22857
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey) writes:

>In college we had to work with a thiophenyl- substance and it actually
>had DANGER:Stench on the label.

I've been in one lab in which one person was using thiophenol. I never want
to be in such a position again--the stuff permeates your clothes, your skin,
everything, and religious people worry when they smell you approaching :-)

The secret for managing this stuff is bleach. The moment something no longer
needs to have this stuff on it, dump it in or in it regular household
bleach. This is how I survived that summer.

It does indeed stink. O yes.

nuke
--
~/.oo
From: chmoris@techunix.technion.ac.il (Moris Eisen)
Newsgroups: sci.chem
Subject: Re: Heavy water separation
Date: 6 Nov 92 05:32:18 GMT
Reply-To: chmoris@techunix.technion.ac.il (Moris Eisen)
Organization: Technion, Israel Inst. of Technology

In article <1992Nov5.013338.22094@cs.rochester.edu> dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.140347.179@physc1.byu.edu> asplundm@physc1.byu.edu writes:
>
>>	As an answer to the original question, I read that the original source
>> of heavy water was from photographer's water baths.  Many of them had sat
>> in one place for decades, and the heavy water concentration was larger on
>> the bottom.  The German government would find any baths that they could, and
>> confiscate them for official research.
>
>
>This can't be right.  The gravitational potential energy difference
>of heavy vs. light water over a 10 centimeter depth (say) would be
>about 10^-7 kT -- utterly negligible.  You'd need a water
>column about 1000 kilometers deep to get significant gravitational
>separation at 300 K.
>
>	Paul F. Dietz

Well, Based on simple facts: water has a density of 0.998 gr/cc at STP when heavy water is 1.104 gr/cc. Simple physiscs will explain whyheavy water concentration will be larger at the bottom given enough time.

Moris S Eisen
chmoris@techunix.technion.ac.il
Newsgroups: sci.chem
From: cohen@cumuli.vmsmail.ethz.ch (Mark Cohen)
Subject: Re: Heavy water separation
Originator: mark@agnew
Organization: Dept. Chemistry, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 09:53:20 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.013338.22094@cs.rochester.edu> dietz@cs.rochester.edu
Paul Dietz comments on asplundm@physc1.byu.edu suggestion:

>>      As an answer to the original question, I read that the original source
>>of heavy water was from photographer's water baths.  Many of them had sat
>>in one place for decades, and the heavy water concentration was larger on
>>the bottom.  The German government would find any baths that they could, and
>>confiscate them for official research.

>This can't be right.  The gravitational potential energy difference
>of heavy vs. light water over a 10 centimeter depth (say) would be
>about 10^-7 kT -- utterly negligible.  You'd need a water
>column about 1000 kilometers deep to get significant gravitational
>separation at 300 K.

I'm sure that you are right about the gravity thing but you have forgotten
the evaporation aspect. At a guess what people (the Germans?) would have
been after would be baths that were continuously filled with evaporation as
the only source of water loss.

H2O bpt 100 C
D2O bpt 101.4 C

HOD is probably somewhere in the midle, perhaps this difference is just
enough to make a difference in the differential rates of evaporation of
the various isotopic waters, even at rt where the ratio of difference in
the rates of evaporation is probably smaller than that suggested by the
different boiling points.

Mark Cohen
From: aw3@ukc.ac.uk (Alan Wilson)
Newsgroups: sci.chem
Subject: E-mail address (wanted)
Date: 9 Nov 92 14:59:36 GMT
Organization: Chemical Laboratory, University of Kent at Canterbury, CT2 7NH, UK

Hello netters,

Does anyone know the e-mail address of Mark Hampden-Smith
Department of Chemistry and Center for Micro-Engineered Ceramics
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque

????

Thanks in advance

ps Any of his collaborators would be equally useful, particularly those
in the sol-gel metal alkoxide field.

Alan

--
Dr. Alan Wilson        (Approved by Morrissey, the consumer monkey)

" That was MY idea "
================================================================= 
Newsgroups: sci.chem
From: hclase@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Howard Clase)
Subject: Re: CIC address ?
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Distribution: can
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 12:36:40 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.153947.4035@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> mroussel@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Marc Roussel) writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.064607.24319@etl.go.jp> rvejb@etlcom3.etl.go.jp
>(John Bozek) writes:
>>I would like to join the Canadian Institute of Chemistry [...]
>
>     A little while ago, I asked this newsgroup why a young theoretical
>chemist should bother joining the CIC.  I received no replies.  This
>seems like an appropriate time to ask again.  What are the tangible
>benefits of CIC membership?  We get their uninteresting magazine in our

	Cheaper rates at conferences and a very good insurance package for
members (e.g. better rates than the CAUT ones for term life) if you are only
interested in what the CIC can do for you in material terms.   They also have a
watching brief and lobbying role in Ottawa, but how successful that is it is
difficult to say.

	Howard Clase
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 01:43:28 EST
From: <SML108@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: sci.chem
Subject: Re: GRAVITY-NEUTRALIZING CHAMBER

In article <1992Nov4.182739.2114@cnsvax.uwec.edu>, mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu says:
>
>     The ZERO/REDUCED-Gravity Chamber described below has obvious potential
>applications for Chemistry, allowing chemical processes, etc., which now can
>ONLY be done on the Space Shuttle, AT GREAT EXPENSE.

I think I've figured Robert E. McElWaine "Super Genius" out...
He is none other than the secret-identity of the Encyclopedia Brittanica
guy...

>                                        Robert E. McElwaine
>                                        B.S., Physics and Astronomy, UW-EC
                                         Definitely BS...

Robby, do you do requests?  I want to know how to turn gold into lead...
Newsgroups: sci.chem
From: nbx@atom.ansto.gov.au (Ned Blagojevic)
Subject: Re: Heavy water separation
Keywords: D2O toxicity 
Organization: Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 00:58:11 GMT

In article <1992Nov3.205140.18843@pellns.alleg.edu> dblackbu@alleg.edu (Dave Blackburn) writes:
>In article <1992Nov3.180908.24563@kth.se> tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (Tomas  
>Eriksson) writes:
>
>|
>|And - I'd advice against drinking water that's enriched in deuterium. 
>|The rates of many reactions in the body is tunnel-effect dependent, 
>|which means that if you get a D atom instead of an H atom at the wrong 
>|place, the rate of the reaction can decrease rather much. And to 
>|deliberately include deuterium in quite a lot of molecules of your body 
>|could do strange things to your physiology. (Not that I really expect 
>|you to die of a single sip of water with a few percent deuterium in it.)
>|
>|Tomas
>|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Interesting. Are there any reports of the physiological effects of D2O?  
>Preferably in non-journal form, more like Scientific American level, so that 
>those of us who don't read physiological lit can understand. (Either cellular  
>or whole-animal. Both should show isotope effects if Tomas is correct about  
>H-tunneling!)
>--
>
>* Dave Blackburn  dblackbu@alleg.edu  flames to self@home.dev.null *          
>* Chemistry, Macs, Hypercard, cats,  <>< religion, & the Dead      *

Yes, anumber of papers were written on the subject back in the 50's and
60'. The paper often quoted is by JF Thomson (chpt 7) in the book from Pargamon Press. THis book is a vol 19 in the series of monographs on pure and applied biology. The tile is " biological Effects of deuterium" Cong Cat. Num. 63-19255.


The long and the short of it is that if you feed rats on 50% D2O for 
a number of weeks they will finally die when their body water exchange 
reaches 30% or so.
No effect is observed until 15% level is reached. 
When 20% is reached they become hyperactive and difficult to handle 
and frequently they convulse when stimulated. 
However, this is reversible by simply placing the rats on normal water. 
Rats dying of D2O have enlarged livers and adrenals. 
Speen size is decreased.


for extended periods eg. mice were maintained on drinking water containing
30% D2O for several months with no ill effects. The degree of water replacment
in the body was appr. 24%.

Hope this helps. I can provide you with more info if you need it.

Ned


nbx@atom.ansto.gov.au
Sydney Australia


Xref: sparky sci.chem:4449 sci.materials:866 sci.physics:18302
From: pollack@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Steven Pollack)
Newsgroups: sci.chem,sci.materials,sci.physics
Subject: Wanted: Huglin's LS book
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:02:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: ucunix.BxB67L.FzA
Organization: University of Cincinnati

Hi:

	Does anyone have a copy of Huglin's "Light Scattering of Polymer
Solutions" to sell or know of a source for used textbooks that might have
it?  Please, no ripped off library copies or totally moth-eaten ones
either.  Please contact me via e-mail rather then wasting the bandwidth.


_______________________________________________________________________
Steven K. Pollack               |
University of Cincinnati        |
Department of Materials Science |   I notice that you are still
  & Engineering                 |   using polymers!
498 Rhodes Hall  ML#12          |     - Lt. Commander Montgomery Scott
Cincinnati, OH 45221-0012       |       U.S.S. Enterprise
spollack@ester.mse.uc.edu       |
________________________________________________________________________
From: ce698@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (A. McPherson)
Newsgroups: sci.chem
Subject: Re: MSDS information required
Date: 12 Nov 1992 21:18:47 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


to NLM on-line data base service,

your information can indeed be uded to produce MSDSs, but it does require
collection and interpretation of the information and associated literature 
references, usually by toxicologists and chemists before the MSDS can be  written.
it would be interesting to know if you are aware of any MSDS data bases on-line.
examples of printed MSDS collections are the CHEMINFO refrerred to by the
original author of this thread, and the International Chemical Safety Cards (UNEP/ILO/WHO), and the Compendium of Safety Data Sheets for Research and Industrial Chemicals.  There are several others, as well.  None of these are available on-line.
-- 
Tobacco, coffee, alcohol, hashish, prussic acid, strychnine are
weak dilutions: the surest poison is time.
               Emerson. Society and Solitude: Old Age
Newsgroups: sci.chem
From: jrkitchi@eos.ncsu.edu (JOHN ROBERT KITCHIN)
Subject: Re: Gold dust a fire hazard?
Originator: jrkitchi@c00489-224wi.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: jrkitchi@eos.ncsu.edu (JOHN ROBERT KITCHIN)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:18:40 GMT


there are many metallic dusts which are not only flammable when in a
fine dust, but are pyrophoric (self-igniting).  This is definitely true
for metals such as aluminum and zinc, which are commonly used for
explosives and pyrotechnics, so I see no reason why it would be
different for other metals like gold and platinum.
From: nuke@reed.edu (Bill Newcomb)
Newsgroups: sci.chem
Subject: Re: Tempering metal with liquid nitrogen
Date: 11 Nov 92 06:10:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov11.061025.26639
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) writes:
>
>What happens if you use liquid nitrogen to quickly cool red-hot
>iron/steel?  A friend of mine says that when he dosed a pocket-
>knife blade with this method, the blade turned clear and
>flexible and would not lose its edge.  Is this true or


I would demand to see the blade :-)
If you do, and it is as he says, _then_ tell us about it. 

Bill Newcomb 
"Did you know that thew word _gullible_isn't in the dictionary?"
nuke@reed.edu
--
~/.oo
Newsgroups: sci.chem
From: rajat@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Rajat Kapoor)
Subject: Why Not ? (Re: Ethanol fuel
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:47:01 GMT

From article <1992Nov12.163140.17642@netcom.com>, by ckp@netcom.com (Charles Pooley):
> 
> I've for a long time felt that using ethanol produced by fermentation is
> fundamentaly immoral.  Using food production capacity (crops, vegetable
> matter, soil, skill and crop-growing labor, etc) to feed automobiles in
> competition with people will eventually pit automobiles against the hungry.
> 
> Charles Pooley                  ckp@netcom.com    GEnie  c.pooley
> EE consultant, Los Angeles, C

Depends... presently there is a food surplus in the world ( we have
people dying of hunger because of inequitible distribution ).

Also, US farmers may benefit economically ( rather, they hope to )
from this venture.  Environmentally, as an oxygenate it makes sense, and
also saves on petroleum...raw material for almost all organics.

On other hand, this substitute could be on a short term basis, at least
in US, with the auto industry switching to electric vehicles (EV)
by 1996 to comply with the CAA 1990.  There is a good article on this in
the recent issue of IEEE publication "Spectrum".

Rajat Kapoor

" My fortunes are inextritably tied to Petroleum Industry "