From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Recovery Goals?
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Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 00:51:17 GMT

Anika (anon-1218@twwells.com) wrote:

: 17-Nov-92 20:58	erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)	Re: Recovery Goals?   writes:
: 
: But isn't looking in the sewer grate "just in case" a fear-based response,
: rooted in the memory of the abuse?  If you still didn't fear, you wouldn't
: look, would you?  It seems to me that if you live your life looking around the
: next corner to make sure you won't get jumped, that's a very fearful way to
: live.  Now, if you heard a strange noise from the sewer grate, you'd look --
: and perhaps be a bit fearful -- but would you run away in terror?
: 
: 	I don't think anyone's said anything about looking around every corner

I did.  I'm no one?  Thank you for your opinion.

: 	to make sure you don't get jumped. Surely, you can take awareness to
: 	an extreme and turn it into paranoia, but no one's suggested that.

Yes, but there are folks here that go to that extreme - there have been more
than a few posts dealing with that subject.

: 	I just think that if you live your life under the assumption it won't
: 	happen again, you won't be prepared and/or won't see it if it does.

I'm *not* suggesting that - just suggesting a reasonable, middle-ground
approach might be more realistic.

: 	(See it meaning it could happen to someone you care about - your
: 	children, e.g.) Immediately to mind comes the recent post about
: 	"Friends and Family" in which the writer indicated her friend had been
: 	abused, but did not recognize signs of abuse in her children. Fine,
: 	great, wonderful if I can say I was abused (I can) but if that
: 	knowledge doesn't give me the ability to recognize and act the next
: 	time the situation arises (if there *is* a next time) what good is it?

That's not the only good that can come out of recognizing abuse.  Seeking
help for that abuse is IMHO a very good thing that can also come out of that.
Perhaps, because of what you've been through, you wouldn't be able to act if
it came up again, but would those responses change if you *had* known, versus
if you *hadn't* known?

: 	No, I don't propose becoming a vigilante in search of abuse. But I
: 	don't want to feel so safe that I prefer to ignore it if it happens

I don't think that would be a very healthy attitude.

: 	again. I think the fact that I *have* the ability to block out these
: 	situations is a strong indicator that I have to get past that, or I'll
: 	keep repressing.

I agree, and I wish you much luck in getting past the repression.

: 	Perhaps for you and your situation it *is* different because it seems
: 	that you stayed in the relationship because of a low self-esteem, 
: 	whereas, in a situation which cannot be escaped, survival is through
: 	repression. To be future repressions are a real fear.

I stayed in my situation not because of low self-esteem (I didn't mention
anything about low self-esteem, did I?), but because of fear of what would
happen to me if I did try and leave.  She, too, is an ex-cop - and the
worst person in the world to go nuts is a cop. :(

: 	I also think it's easier to find safe footing and have relationships
: 	than it is to force yourself to recognize incest - not to belittle

Are you saying that you can't do both?  There are several people here who are
in the midst of relationships, and are just now coming to grips with their
own issues.  Sure, it's more difficult.  A relationship is by no means "safe
footing" - there are a *lot* of abusive people out there. :(

: 	your work. For example, if I find I'm *not* beyond dating the abusive
: 	types and actually marry one (or if he doesn't appear to be abusive at
: 	all) yet my children start acting strangely after several times of
: 	being alone with him, it would be *much* easier to think the kids are
: 	just weird than to believe the man I've pledged my life to could be

Of course.  You have an emotional investment in the relationship, which could
make it difficult to see things for what they are.

: 	abusing them. I'd want to be able to recognize the symptoms, talk to
: 	the children and see what was happening. This is *very* different from
: 	developing an ability to have a relationship. The "grates" to me are
: 	the much farther-reaching implications of the abuse.

You are speaking of long-term effects of abuse, aren't you?
--
Ed Carp			erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com	801/538-0177

"There is nothing to seek and nothing to find.  You're already enlightened, and
all the words in the world won't give you what you already have.  The wise
seeker, therefore, is concerned with one thing only: to become aware of what
he already is, of the True Self within."  -- Zen maxim
-- 
Ed Carp			erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com	801/538-0177

"There is nothing to seek and nothing to find.  You're already enlightened, and
all the words in the world won't give you what you already have.  The wise