From: gryphon@crchh424.BNR.CA (Joe Widows)
Subject: Re: Mary, merry, marry
Reply-To: gryphon@bnrrch43.bnr.rich
Organization: BNR
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 05:24:41 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.220705.2835@memstvx1.memst.edu>,
connolly@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:
> In article <62390@cup.portal.com>, EZ-as-pi@cup.portal.com (Bruce
Robert Gilson) writes:
> > Stanley Friesen states that his
> > pronunciation of Mary/marry/merry is
> > with a simple "e" as in my "merry."
> > I do not challenge his description
> > of his own pronunciation, but I do
> > want to say that it's not one I have
> > ever heard. The pronunciation of all
> > the people I know that fail to make
> > a distinction is like my "Mary."
> > An interesting thing is that there
> > is a woman who works where I do,
> > whose name was first given to me as
> > what sounded to my ears as "Mary Ann"
> > (with the vowel of my "Mary"). I 
> > later found it was "Marianne" (which
> > I would pronounce with the "a" of 
> > "marry") but I keep having to think
> > about it, since I learned her name
> > as Mary Ann!
> > On another, but closely related topic
> > does anyone outside New York make a
> > distinction between "can" = to be able
> > and "can" = tin container? I grew up
> > in NYC, and to me these are two dif-
> > ferently pronounced words (even when
> > stressed: I don't mean "I can do it"
> > with the "can" pronounced "c'n" but
> > "I CAN do it") - the verb has the a
> > of "cat" (almost, anyway) and the
> > noun the vowel of "Mary" or "hair."
> > Interestingly, in "can't" there is
> > a tendency to use the second vowel
> > even though it's related to the verb
> > "can" -- however if I say "cannot"
> > with stress, it has the vowel of the
> > verb "can" in it.
> 
> Well, I say it that way too.  I was born and raised in Northern New Jersey,
> Essex County, which is an old English settlement (out of Connecticut) and
> hence does not share the Dutch substratum underlying NYC English.  In
> other words, I don't have a New Jo"isey (not: "Joisey"!) accent as the
> term is commonly understood, and neither does anyone else in my town.
> So the isogloss goes at least 15 miles West of Manhattan ...
> 
> --Leo Connolly

I thought it was common knowlege (ignorance?) that if you split the USA
along the Mississippi River , everyone WEST used the allophone for /e/
as in (err) /e:r/ not /r:/
east of that line one can discriminate 2 of the phonemes marry, mary,
marry (hat) / mary (err)  merry (err)
and finally north of Virginia (?) and east of New York, 
one could distinguish all the phonemes as  distinct along with /w/ and /W/
that is (which witch, whale whole)

Some time back there was quite a bit of traffic on the subject.
Not everybody does this , but most natives of any area would;
as a native Texan hick I would use the allophone. ( not that I can't
hear the difference).  Personally, I think its a silly business:
" I'm a bigger hick than you!" ;) 
 
  widows : Linguist in the dark.
  
  PS: Aren't there any phonologists on the NET so we could discuss 
     the mechanics of SouthWestern phoneme changes or any other
     region with an interesting flavor? I'd hate to believe I was
     right ( surest way I know to be wrong!) I call it the glide-rule
     just for argument, so far I haven't found an argument :(
            
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