From: johnsd2@vccsouth26.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson)
Subject: Re: More on mouse buttons
Reply-To: johnsd2@vccsouth26.its.rpi.edu.its1
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 04:14:07 GMT

In article 3841@cs.uoregon.edu, tracer@majestix.cs.uoregon.edu (Roger M. Wilcox) writes:
>In article <1992Dec12.101637.262@physc1.byu.edu> goblec@physc1.byu.edu writes:
>>
>>The Mac can use multi-button mice.  It leaves it as an option.
>>Were the OS to use the second button it couldn't be optional.
>
>WHAT?!?!?!??!!!!!
>

Well, I didn't say it, but I'll babble about it. :)

>1) Every single 2-or-more-button mouse available on the Mac either has the
>second button COMPLETELY DUPLICATE the first button, so that both merely
>result in a straightforward mouseDown/mouseUp event with all the ordinary
>modifiers set, or assigns the second button to emulate shift+click,
>ctrl+click, propeller+click, etc..  There is no special rightMouseDown
>or middleMouseDown event that it can generate.

Right.

Now, if there WAS such an event, but Apple Mice (tm) didn't generate them,
and the Mac UI didn't use the buttons... would it help?

You can not reasonably use mouse buttons that are usually not there;
to make the Mac support multibutton mice adequately, Apple would have
to incorporate them into the ui (and all programs would wind up using them)
and ship a multibutton mouse.

This causes all the (mild) problems we have been spewing about.

What I am trying to say is that the OS support you want is not usefull
without a mouse to support.

The command-option-business does the job instead, if you really want
multiple buttons.

>2) Just because an OS supports something doesn't mean it's a requirement.

That's true, but this isn't just the OS.

This is also the hardware. Just OS support will not do the trick.

>MacOS has supported hard drives for some time now; does that mean your
>system HAS to have a hard drive?

:) Well, actually...

System 7 DOES require one.. :)

>  Similarly, just because an OS *allows*
>an application (or even its shell/finder) to use a right mouse button to
>specify some sort of input doesn't mean that that application can't also have
>another way to accomplish the same task WITHOUT needing a right button click.

If 1 button mice are common they will make it possible to use the app one
buttonly, yeah, but see below for more spew about that.

Also, it does not matter if the right button goes unused- if it does it's
just a waste of button, as you already have the "which button to press"
problem. Why not get some good along with the bad?

The question is whether it's present or not.

>This may surprise you, but the MS Windows Common User Access guidelines
>(Windows' GUI style guide) specifies a keyboard-equivalent for nearly every
>single mouse action -- a system DOESN'T EVEN HAVE TO HAVE A MOUSE AT ALL to
>use most applications!

That's annother argument. I do not consider this a feature, unless you might
run on a mouseless system. I do not consider it a bug necessarily either.

>  Although, of course, most systems DO have mice and
>all Windows applications DO do something consistent with mouse-based input.

Including the Right Mouse Button? I do not think this is true for MS-windows.
I think it is POSSIBLE, but not yet implemented, if you see what I mean.

Of course, maybe there was a big change in the software and everyone standardized
on something recently.  But I never heard of it.

>And, of course, there are one-mouse-button equivalents specified in the C.U.A.
>for clicks on the right button or the (as-of-yet-uncommon) middle mouse
>button.  So no, having the OS use the right mouse button does NOT mean that
>multi-button mice are no longer optional.

Er, yes they DO.

Why, I hear you yodel?

Because if multi-button mice are common they will be assumed to exist- at
least in teh sence that CLIs are (on some systems) so assumed; they will use
the extra buttons to make up for deficiencies in the interface. The single-button
users will be screwed.

And there will always be those who just require multiple buttons.

If they are NOT common (the case now) they will be ignored.

The upshot is that everyone will have >1 button. Sorta the way this happens
with Windows, which technically does NOT require extra buttons. I know of
no 1-button mice for windows you can buy; are there such? I certainly
have never heard of anyone USEING one in Windows. And Windows doesn't
even make that much use of that extra button.

---
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0

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