HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (RedSwordTarga)
Subject: Re: Random Rolls
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:25:12 GMT

dunkelza@titan.ucs.umass.edu (KEITH C MCCORMIC) writes:


>  You wanna bet?  About half of the people who responded to my survey
>wanted some element of randomness in character creation.  Much more fun?
>Maybe for people who can't deal with weird characters...


Well, since GURPS is based on 3-18 stats, and 3d6 can generate characteristics
in that range, I don't see what the problem is. People who want
random stats can have random stats, they just have to pay for them. Those
who don't want random stats can build their characters as per normal.
The real reason this doesn't work: Most people who generate random characters
just roll until they get really great stats, and point allocation makes you
pay for what you get free in random generation.


Axly

********************************************************************************
*  Axly       *   "Just because its my gun doesn't mean I'm the one who fired  **             *    it."                                                        *
* Red Sword   *   "OK, I fired it, but I didn't think I'd hit any civilians."  *
*  Targa      *   "Well, yes, it did occur to me that I might hit one or two   *
*             *    civilians. But I really never thought I would hit all of    *
*             *    them. "                                                     *
*             *      - Axly                                                    *
********************************************************************************
From: CX6L@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CX6L)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Thoughts on GURPS
Date: 26 Jan 93 00:43:12 GMT
Organization: McGill University

In article <loren.287@wmkt.wharton.upenn.edu> loren@wmkt.wharton.upenn.edu (Loren Miller) writes:
>In article <1993Jan24.103017.9919@archtwr.tower.nullnet.fi> elandal@archtwr.tower.nullnet.fi (Ismo Peltonen) writes:
>>  Why does everybody always forget the extra effort?
>
>Why don't you work it out, and figure out what ST *would* be required to
>bench 600 lbs? It may not be 40, but it's over 20 and I think it's also over
>30.

Bzzzzzt. Wrong. Check out GURPS Supers (2nd ed.), on page 83, where
there is a handy table of maximum reliable Extra Effort Lift: it
gives (and you can verify this) that a ST 19 character can reliably
lift 616 pounds without really worrying. He could lift more than
this if he's willing to take a risk (ie - 16 or less). A ST 18
character could lift 630 pounds on 14 or less, a ST 17 637 on 12
or less, etc, etc, etc
     Face it: people totally ignore these Extra Effort rules,
while the system assumes that you are using them. *That* is why
high ST is so grim.
-Kromm.

_______________________________________________________________________
|    "It's true! When you load    |   This reality has experienced    |
|     WordPerfect into memory     |          . . . failure.           |
|     backwards, you see a GIF    |      Please try again later.      |
|      of the face of Satan!"     |___________________________________|
|               -=-               |Dr Manfred Kromm can be reached at:|
|     -Secrets of the Masons-     |-----> CX6L@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA <-----|
|               -=-               |McGill University, Montreal, Canada|
|_________________________________|___________________________________|
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: seurer@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Bill Seurer)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on GURPS
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 02:01:45 GMT
Reply-To: BillSeurer@vnet.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Rochester

In article <2B608A00.6152@ics.uci.edu>, mmadsen@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Matt Madsen) writes:
|> The main point I think people need to understand is that, for example,
|> while strength is less useful in a modern setting than in a medieval one,
|> that is not reason enough to change the price.  In a mystery campaign you
|> _shouldn't_ have body-builders running around.  It's only when some talent
|> is less useful, but _expected_ of the characters, that it should have its
|> price reduced.

If it is EXPECTED that the characters are to have certain talents, shouldn't
you just give them extra points to use?

Of course the real solution is to back off from the view that
  1) Everyone should be balanced
  2) Everyone should have the same point total
  3) Everyone must follow the rules exactly as written

It would probably have been better if at the start the "rules" for
RPGs (all of them, not just GURPS) had been called "guidelines" instead.  
Many people hate breaking the rules of games (or hate those who do break 
them).

By the way, is there anyone who has played with any RP game system for
an extended period of time who hasn't introduced their own house rules?
-- 

- Bill Seurer     Language and Compiler Development      IBM Rochester, MN
  Internet: BillSeurer@vnet.ibm.com    America On-Line: BillSeurer@aol.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: ShadowRun HEROIC??? (was Re: Burn, GURPS...)
From: tmont@cerc.wvu.wvnet.edu (Todd Montgomery)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 00:57:28 GMT
Organization: Concurrent Engineering Research Center
Summary: Comments

The point   of  any/ and every role-playing    game   is to   make the
characters heroes, at least that is  what I consider  the point to be.
Role-Players  don't win  or   lose   with the GM   or  the  GMs  NPCs.
Role-Players  go through their players existence  and ROLE play.  Like
acting, this should enliven the players  life and open his/her eyes to
new concepts and thoughts. If you use a gaming system that is TOO much
like real-life, i.e.   bleeding, broken bones, chances  to die from  a
straw shoved up  your nose,,, You  take away  the heroic part  of  the
game. A gaming system should be flexible to the point of  being almost
GM unigue.  A system should be detailed  enough to provide  flavor and
open enough to allow a good level of freedom. The characters should be
above the norm and should have extraordinary abilities make  them seem
above the average.

This idea is purely MINE. Many don't agree.

-- Quiktek
tmont@cerc.wvu.wvnet.edu
From: millerl@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Thoughts on GURPS
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:11:27 GMT
Organization: Newt World Order

In article <26JAN93.12930234.0069@VM1.MCGILL.CA>, CX6L@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CX6L) writes:
> In article <2B64AF5E.20190@ics.uci.edu> mmadsen@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Matt Madsen) writes:
>>"...a ST 19 character can reliably _lift_ 616 pounds..."  What does "lift"
>>mean?  Does that mean dead lift (pick up off the ground)?
> 
> It means the maximum that the character can push, pull, lift or
> hurl, using Extra Effort, under normal circumstances (ie - no
> special preparation, no lever, etc).

Then it isn't the same as bench-pressing. Bench pressing is harder than
a dead-lift, which is the stat you're talking about. Real power lifters
can dead-lift over 1000 pounds at least 50% of the time, but I'm not
sure what the precise numbers are so let's use the bench numbers
instead. Assuming that the normal ST10 person can bench 150 lbs on a
10-, what ST would be required to bench 600 lbs on a 10-? The answer is
ST20, yet that's the standard strength of national competitors and a lot
of people who spend time in gymns can do it. I think that requiring this
to be ST20 is too high, since it isn't often useful.

-- 
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller                           internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
Mediocrity is a hand rail.                         -- Baron de Montesquieu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow)
Subject: Re: Review: Legacy
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 02:16:51 GMT

jbridson@kean.ucs.mun.ca (Robert Bridson) writes:

> There are too many numbers for my taste, but the amount is not
> unmanageable.

Could you give an example in which you find the numbers excessive, and
perhaps an example of how you would prefer to handle that situation?  That
would give a better idea of what you mean.  One gamer's "too many" is another
gamer's "too few".  :)

> Now on to the bad points.  Legacy, as it stands, could use an index, and
> better organization.  As an example, I knew that a formula for fallign
> damage was there somewhere, but try as I might I could not find it.  Later
> on that day, I accidentally came upon it under "Climbing"...  While not as
> bad as a lot of games, it's a pain having no index.

Hmm, only one beta tester(that I'm aware of) brought up the issue of an
index, and he didn't give the impression of it being a significant lack.  How
detailed of an index would you like to see?  An index of a few dozen entries
that don't have an obvious section that they'd be found in?  A comprehensive
index (rivalling the contents of the manual)?  Also, if you use the rules for
a few sessions, and find that the lack of index isn't a problem (you know
where things are), could you let us know?

Falling damage is an awkward item.  Would you have found it if it had been in
the Health section?  Are there any other items that you found difficult to
locate?

Is there anything else you'd like to have seen included?  Are there any items
that you felt really needed an example?

Constructive criticism is quite welcome.  If the beta testers had been more
open with it, maybe falling damage would be in Health, and whatever other
problems you noticed would have been fixed before release.

I sent J.D. _lots_ of helpful criticism.  I'm sure he was deliriously happy
whenever he saw a letter from me in his e-mailbox.   O:-)

--

Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca
From: kogoma@triton.unm.edu (Taki Kogoma)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Burn, GURPS, BURN!
Date: 22 Jan 1993 04:26:31 GMT
Organization: Nit-Pickers for a Better Tomorow Afternoon
NNTP-Posting-Host: triton.unm.edu

In article <2314@blue.cis.pitt.edu> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
>	Well, that's a matter of wierd scale on your part. 13 and 14,
>according to the GURPS book, is pretty good but not at all remarkable.
>16 is pretty impressive, but you don't get awesome until 18. At least,
>that's according to the book.
>[...and a bit later...]
>	According to the book, it's genius level -- Einstein, etc.
>I think I have met one or two of these people. I know that if you
>give Einstein a 200, and give IQ a standard deviation of 15, I'm
>only 2 deviations behind. 16 versus an 18? Who knows. 

Actually, it's genrally agreed (to my experience) - even in the GURPS
community - that the 'Stat equivalants' chart in GURPS basic is
screwed.  You're preaching to the choir on this point.

-- 
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk  (Known to some as Taki Kogoma)  kogoma@triton.unm.edu
 I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to
                          what I have now...
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: gjschmid@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Greg Schmidt)
Subject: ARCHIVES: FTP Files (patch) [3 of 3]
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.misc
Keywords: Net.Books
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:42:18 GMT


***************
*** 37,40 ****
--- 37,42 ----
  Net.BardSong.Book Volume 2     Jeff Gostin (jgostin@eternal.chi.il.us)
      greyhawk.stanford.edu           17776                04/09/92
+ Net.Book.Riddles               Mark Manning (mark@cheers.jsc.nasa.gov)
+     ftp.nau.edu                                          08/10/92
  Net.Magic.Items.Book
      ccosun.caltech.edu             384021                14/11/91
***************
*** 61,72 ****
      ccosun.caltech.edu             113642                14/11/91
      garfield.catt.ncsu.edu         325434                27/04/92
      potemkin.cs.pdx.edu             38253 (LaTeX)        20/10/91
- Net.Book.Riddles               Mark Manning (mark@robin.jsc.nasa.gov)
-     ftp.nau.edu                                          08/10/92
  Net.Spell.Book                 Boudewijn Wayers (wsbusr1@urc.tue.nl)
      ccosun.caltech.edu             270785                14/11/91
      garfield.catt.ncsu.edu          56293                27/04/92
!     greyhawk.stanford.edu           92160                09/05/91
!     greyhawk.stanford.edu          296960 (LaTeX)        09/05/91
      potemkin.cs.pdx.edu            141109 (LaTeX)        10/04/91
      potemkin.cs.pdx.edu            112227 (LaTeX)        20/10/91
--- 63,76 ----
      ccosun.caltech.edu             113642                14/11/91
      garfield.catt.ncsu.edu         325434                27/04/92
+     greyhawk.stanford.edu          102400 (V2)           09/05/91
+     greyhawk.stanford.edu          133120 (V3)           31/03/92
+     greyhawk.stanford.edu           69617 (V5)           18/01/93
      potemkin.cs.pdx.edu             38253 (LaTeX)        20/10/91
  Net.Spell.Book                 Boudewijn Wayers (wsbusr1@urc.tue.nl)
      ccosun.caltech.edu             270785                14/11/91
      garfield.catt.ncsu.edu          56293                27/04/92
!     greyhawk.stanford.edu          399360 (V2)           09/05/91
!     greyhawk.stanford.edu          624640 (V3)           31/03/92
!     greyhawk.stanford.edu          366709 (V5)           18/01/93
      potemkin.cs.pdx.edu            141109 (LaTeX)        10/04/91
      potemkin.cs.pdx.edu            112227 (LaTeX)        20/10/91
***************
*** 85,89 ****
  Penultimate MU Spell List      Tim Prestero (ez003389@castor.ucdavis.edu)
      greyhawk.stanford.edu           16491                16/05/91
! Poison.Digest
      ccosun.caltech.edu             114861                14/11/91
      potemkin.cs.pdx.edu             31787                20/10/91
--- 89,93 ----
  Penultimate MU Spell List      Tim Prestero (ez003389@castor.ucdavis.edu)
      greyhawk.stanford.edu           16491                16/05/91
! Poison.Digest                  Mike Parasich (mnp@alpha.sunquest.com)
      ccosun.caltech.edu             114861                14/11/91
      potemkin.cs.pdx.edu             31787                20/10/91
From: kasab@luther.che.wisc.edu (John J. Kasab)
Subject: REQUEST: PostScript Character Sheets
Followup-To: kasab@luther.che.wisc.edu
Summary: This will not be an active thread, email the author
Keywords: request postscript character
Reply-To: kasab@luther.che.wisc.edu (John J. Kasab)
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Madison
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 23:05:06 GMT

I am in search of RPG character sheets that have been done up in PostScript
(or TeX) format to make my life easier, and save on photocopying costs and
all that.  I am most interested in character sheets for the following
systems:
AD&D (2nd ed.), Amber DRPG, Ars Magica, Call of Cthulhu, Champions/HERO,
Cyberpunk (most recent ed.), DC Super Heros, Marvel SuperHeros, and
Rolemaster.

But of course, I would welcome most anything, really.  I would even be
willing to set up an archive, or something, if this is a reasonably common
request.

Thanks for your help,
JK
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  John Kasab                             "I rarely speak in absolutes."
Internet: kasab@cae.wisc.edu             (alt: kasab@luther.che.wisc.edu)
      The NSF and UW--Madison don't speak for me, nor I for them.

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.archives,rec.games.frp.dnd
From: junger@rsg1.er.usgs.gov (John Unger)
Subject: go supplies
Organization: U.S. Geological Survey, Reston VA
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:20:38 GMT

I have some old catalogs from the Sabaki Go Co. in Wilmington, DE
and from the National Go Society in Savoy, IL.  Are either of these
two businesses still operating?  They used to have go supplies at
cheaper prices than Ishi Press.

thanks -- John Unger
From: jansteen@cwi.nl (Jan van der Steen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Help needed with go terms.
Date: 24 Jan 93 17:38:26 GMT

wft@math.canterbury.ac.nz (Bill Taylor) writes:

>What do the terms   GAISEI   and   SENZENSEN   mean, please ?

    Japanese: gaisei
    English : influence (see also 'jitsuri')

	    9 . . . . . . . . . . . .
	    8 . . . . o . . . . . . .
	    7 . . . # o . . . . . . .
	    6 . . . # o . . . . . . .
	    5 . . . # # o o . . . . .
	    4 . . # . o # o # . . . .
	    3 . . . . o # o . . . . .
	    2 . . . . # # . . . . . .
	    1 . . . . . . . . . . . .
	      a b c d e f g h j k l

	white has 'gaisei', black has 'jitsuri'

The cross-reference:

    Japanese: jitsuri
    English : visible territory/points (see 'gaisei')

The Japanese word "senzensen" are the Go games played as a side
activity before a big title match.

>One of the published lists gives KAME NO KO as meaning "tortoiseshell". Can
>someone explain this, please ?

    Japanese: kame no ko
    English : tortoise shell (shape made by the capture of 2 stones)

		. . . . . .
		. . o o . .
		. o . . o .
		. . o o . .
		. . . . . .

	the shape after capturing two
	stones resembles a tortoise shell

A word tightly related to "kame no ko" is:

    Japanese: kame no ko no shippo tsuki
    English : a tortoise shell with a tail

		. . . . . . .
		. . o o . . .
		. o . . o o .
		. . o o . . .
		. . . . . . .

	the shape resembles a tortoise
	shell with a tail


> Finally, in chess, there is a very useful word, "zwichtenzug", meaning
> "intervening move"; used of a move that is becoming more urgent, and
> (probably) forces a reply, but is outside of the main thread of the
> battle going on at the time. So it usually comes as a surprise.

I gave this issue a long thought...

In chess, the "zwichenzug" has the taste of a move which has been
overlooked by one of the players: "the combination was beautifully
planned and executed but white had the "zwichenzug" Bxh7+ which
forced a draw by perpetual check...".

In Go things rarely happen in a cause-effect stream of events the
way they usually do in chess. A local fight in Go would come
closest and then a "zwichenzug" could be a "kikashi" (forcing move)
played in a different area of the board but having some effect on
the local fight (outcome of a ladder for example).
But, Go players are aware of the presence of kikashi moves and
(should) take them into consideration while reading variations.

> It strikes me that this kind of thing is even more common at go than
> chess, so there may well be a standard Japanese term for it.  Does
> anyone know of it ?

I would rather tend to the opposite by saying that it's more unlikely
to happen in a Go game. I tried to remember a pro game with the
occurence of a "zwichenzug", but couldn't think of one.


Jan van der Steen

-- 
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     Jan van der Steen                 jansteen@cwi.nl
     Centre for Mathematics and Computer Science (CWI)
     Kruislaan 413, 1098 SJ Amsterdam, The Netherlands
From: nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: IGS
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:39:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: ll.1993Jan27.183906.29471
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory

In article <1k6apv$8hf@agate.berkeley.edu> hale@xcf.Berkeley.EDU (Greg Hale) writes:
>	In approximately three weeks the Internet Go Server (IGS)
>	located at the current site, icsib18.icsi.berkeley.edu 6969, will
>	be moving to a new site if all goes well.  The new site will be
>	located somewhere at .......ucsf.edu.   As soon as the new
>	site is ready I will post the new address here and in the motd
>	on IGS.

this is good news!  thanks, greg!

- nate
From: cbrooks@pdx234.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Clark Brooks)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: WANTED: a pocket-sized goban
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:29:14 GMT
Reply-To: $USER@ichips.intel.com
Organization: Microprocessor Division 6, PDX, Intel

In article <1993Jan25.125119.11817@ghost.dsi.unimi.it>, montra@ghost.dsi.unimi.it (Paolo Montrasio) writes:
|> 
|> I'd like to know if there exist any pocket-sized goban. I looked for
|> it in my city but I wasn't able to find any. The smaller one was a
|> 
|> An alternate solution is building it by myself. I have a few ideas but
|> I'd like to hear from someone who already did it (if anyone already

Once upon a time I made a "board" by stitching 38 black seams
across a piece of canvas and finishing the edges. Cheap (~4mm) plastic
stones tied in black & white bandanas complete the set. Though it's
full-sized in horizontal cross-section, it fits in some of my pockets.

I find shrunken goban almost as painful to use as ASCII boards...

		Clark ick-kyu
From: dnicol@cstp.umkc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Go Board shape
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:41:24 GMT
Organization: UM - Kansas City, Computer Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: vax2.cstp.umkc.edu

Dennis Howe, who loses his identity when he's at the wheel, writes:
> Go on an infinite board which sounds like a fun game if you've got
> plenty of time!  Anyone tried it?
> --
> Denis Howe <dbh@doc.ic.ac.uk>
> Who is the potter and who the pot?

Before consenting to indulge in such an adventure, I for one would 
demand an adjustment to the rules preventing repeating patterns.  Besides,
with an infinite board, there would be no motivation for the battle!
None at all!
--
David Nicol <dnicol@vax1.umkc.edu>
Maybe I should have just stayed home this morning
From: ocrow@zonker.cs.berkeley.edu (Oliver Crow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Request xgospel help
Date: 27 Jan 1993 20:42:33 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: zonker.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1k4odu$srq@agate.berkeley.edu>, I wrote:
|> 
|> I'm trying to install xgospel on our Sparcs, but I can't
|> get the observe window to come up.  On clicking an entry
|> in the game, window, I get the message:
|> 
|> Warning: parse error, expecting `OBSERVE':
|> Somewhere in
....

I got an answer from the program's author, which clears this up.
The answer is ... to toggle bell on (boy do I feel stupid - I
knew it had to be something simple).  He also sent me a code
patch to make it work in either mode.  The patch, by the author,
Ton Hospel is:

> The solution however is 
> very easy: look in the file goserver.l, the lines starting with ^"2  "
> (these arev the rules for OBSERVE and KIBITZ). Replace them by:
> ^"2 "{BELL}                       ;
> "2"{WNL}{WNL}"11 Kibitz "       { BEGIN(THENAMES);
>                                   return KIBITZ; }
> "2"{WNL}                        { return OBSERVE; }
> and all should work. Notice however that you need flex to be able to make the
> file goserver.c, and that I probably made a mistake in the Imakefile and put
> goserver.c instead of goserver.l in the list of source files. You'll have to
> change this back, or it will probably not use the new goserver.l 

Thanks Ton.

Oliver