HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552)
Subject: Re: Back Pain
Organization: just me
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 12:47:10 GMT
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts

In article <BuDrAq.FyM@helios.physics.utoronto.ca> butscher@aurora.physics.utoronto.ca (Adrian Butscher) writes:
>I have been having some middle-back pains lately.  The actual pain is felt
>in the lower back and it mainly feels like stress/fatigue pain (i.e. not
>acute).  My chiropractor and I have identified that the middle back area 
>(transition between lumbar vertebrea and, um, mid-back vertebrae) is very sore
>and is probably causing all my problems.  
>
>What I want to know is could this be Judo related?  Does anyone have any 
>experience with Judo and back pain?  I really hope it's not Judo, because
>I just got back into it after a long absence (don't worry, I started slowly), 
>and I really like it.  Also, I haven't been doing any lately, but the pain
>doesn't seem to go away.
>
>I would appreciate any thoughts you might have.  Please post responses, if
>you want to.  Thanks.

I found that the rolls used in Hapkido practice did wonders for my back,
over a period of months.  Aikido rolls are also good - I had a low back
injury that bothered me for a few years.

The other big relief was getting a futon, the kind that is just cotton.  I
put it on a hardwood frame.  It does wonders too.  I can now sleep soundly
on a concrete or wooden floor, no stiffness.

Then again, maybe my futon is a little *too* hard, come to think of it...

	David Pipes :-)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ejdath@donner.uucp (25832-dath)
Subject: sca
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: rec.martial-arts
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 18:31:04 GMT

I have read here about people doing different kinds of fencing and stuff
through the SCA.  I am very interested!  Does anyone have a contact for
this stuff in the Northern NJ area?  Any leads would be appreciated.

Thanks,

E.J.

Disclaimer, disclaimer, Hey...it's me!
From: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM (David Scheid)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: FRESNO???????
Date: 15 Sep 1992 18:43:28 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: danzan.ebay.sun.com

In article 18843@cs.rose-hulman.edu, acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU () writes:

>		so where is fresno and why is it so dangerous?

>		-mukund

Fresno is located in the southern San Joacquin Valley in Calif. 
It is about 3 hours south of Sacramento - about the same distance
from LA (I guess). 

It is the richest Farm Town in the world, counting for a huge % of all
crops shipped from Anyplace, USA.

It also has the distinction of being a very, very violent and drug infested
town. While it doesn't garner the infamy of Oakland for the number of murders,
it does have it's share. Moreoever, I'm told by relatives, that there is no
longer (and hasn't been for some years) any safe place in Fresno. One can
be killed in any area, any time of the day or night - doesn't matter. 

My cousin's girl-friend was blown away in Fresno for not paying her 
Heroin debts. (I forget if her then current guy was blown away as well).

Wonderful town, just be on guard....

---
Dave Scheid - All Disclaimers Apply
From: westreic@oc.nps.navy.mil (Eric Westreich)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: style help?
Date: 10 Sep 92 21:19:12 GMT
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA

In article <1685D13040.R3TLM@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU> R3TLM@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU writes:
>
> 
> 
>I have experienced several different styles in my time as
>a martial artist. I have yet to find the style for me. I wanted to
>ask if anyone knew of any particular styles that had the same sense
>of physical meditation as Tai Chi, but had a little more apparent use
>in the real world. And, if you know, do you know of any instructors in
>the Akron, Ohio area?
> 


Hakko-Ryu Jujutsu is not really meditative, but has a heavy emphasis on
Shiatsu healing. The art concentrates on not causing PERMANENT damage to an
attacker. If this interests you, you may want to contact Shihan Micheal
Lamonica...the U.S. Representative for Hakko-Ryu Jujutsu:

     Mike & Chris Lamonica
     1177 S. Hametown Rd.
     Akron, OH 44321
     (216) 666-3081
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ejdath@donner.uucp (25832-dath)
Subject: Re: Model Mugging (not so long)
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: rec.martial-arts 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 09:45:52 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.064252.24513@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
>In article <1992Sep11.151739.1428@PA.dec.com> stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark) writes:
>>There's a paradox in women's self defense.  Typcially being on the
>>disadvantaged side of the classic mismatch (being both shorter of limbs
>>and less physically powerful in most cases), women (especially non-martial
>>artists) who want to train to defend themselves to fight hand-to-hand can't 
>>stress outfighting entirely because they'll be at the disadvantage due to 
>>their shorter arms, and they can't stress infighting, because their lesser
>>physical strength becomes a problem. 
>
>Not to suggest a heresy on rec.matrtial-arts, but I would think a 
>pistol would be the most viable solution to this paradox.
                                                  ^^^^^^^>
>                                                       Frank Crary
>                                                       CU Boulder
>
According to another thread here a good Kiai should be all she would need.

Also isn't this an improper use of the word paradox?  I certainly don't find
the above statements paradoxical, they are actually exactly what you would
expect.  I'm not sure which words I am searching for...how about, "damned
if you do, and damned if you don't".  Perhaps the answer to this problem is
to be able to break holds and be able to run a good quarter mile time.  If
the guy is still in pursuit a good shot with mace or just showing Smith &
Wesson would probably do the trick.  This certainly cuts down on necessary
training.

Oh, yeah! I really like the rolling under the nearby car idea.  I'm sure if
this was done while screaming like a banshee and spraying a little mace
around you could very easily discourage just about anybody or thing.
Did you ever hole-up a skunk? Not a pleasent experience.

E.J.

Disclaimer, disclaimer, Hey...it's me!
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Model Mugging (long)
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:18:16 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <12510007@hplsla.hp.com> natalies@hplsla.hp.com (Natalie Schuchard) writes:
>- M.M. concentrates on ground defenses, since virtually all rape victims
>end up on the ground. This works for the woman's advantage, since the 
>ground is her strongest position if she knows how to use it. In a woman's 
>body, her strength is concentrated in her hips (as opposed to the upper 
>body in a man.)

	I'm not sure I understand this.  If I was a lighter person with
less upper body strength the very last place I'd want to be is in a
ground fight.  I understand teaching _anyone_ how to work on the ground,
but I don't understand the "ground is her strongest position" part at all.

								wr
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Savate and Muay Thai kicking principles (was Boxing and Kicks)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 10 SEP 92 15:31:12    


In article <1992Sep10.184100.27829@ns.network.com>, hahn@plugh.network.com 
(Peter Hahn) writes...

>>3. If you took american boxing and added kicks
>>to it, wouldnt it just, eventually, evolve into
>>something like Thai kickboxing?   Or not?
> 
>Possibly -- this seems to be the case with Kyokushinkai and its
>offshoots.  On the other hand, not necessarily: consider Savate, or PKA
>style kickboxing.  Neither style is terribly similar to Muay Thai.  And
>Savate, like Muay Thai, even allows leg kicks.
> 

Peter (or others knowledgable in these two arts) :

	Would you please describe the difference in approach for me ?

							todd
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: mallon@hsi.com (Dan Mallon-Kraft)
Subject: Re: spooky kiaiissssss
Organization: 3M Health Information Systems, Wallingford CT
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:28:09 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.135840.13451@mlb.semi.harris.com> geg@beep.mis.semi.harris.com (Gregory E. Garland) writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.121552.2449@relay.nswc.navy.mil>, snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt) writes:
>
>|> 
>|> Those in throwing/grappling styles might well be advised to not
>|> practice kihaps, I have this BAD habit of kihapiing when I hit the
>|> ground and haven't bit my tongue off.....yet.  Has anyone been
>|> tought to keep the tongue stuck to the roof of the mouth when
>|> being thrown? 
>|> 
>
>Not true, you'd _better_ give a good kiai when you're hitting the mat
>while a 200+ pounder is coming down on top of you if you expect to get
>up any time soon...

It doesn't even require the weight to come down on top of you.  I hit the
floor *hard* Friday night when thrown by someone ~40 lbs. lighter than me.
The only thing that prevented me from losing my wind was that I continued
the kiai after hitting the mat (ie. UUUuuuuuusssssssssssssssss.........  :-)

One of the importants points of a breakfall is keeping your chin tucked in
to your chest.  Not only does this prevent the whiplash effect on your head
and neck, but also proves to keep the mouth closed and firm.  Hopefully,
the faller doesn't put his tongue between his teeth before tucking the chin.

Dan
-- 
 Dan Mallon-Kraft		     mallon@hsi.com
 3M Health Information Systems	     {uunet,yale}!hsi!mallon
From: leos@wolf.cs.washington.edu (Leo Salemann)
Subject: Tournament in Seattle
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering Dept., Univ. of Washington, Seattle
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 07:09:23 GMT

I'm posting this for a friend /w/out email.  Please direct all inquiries to 
the info phone numbers at the bottom of this post.

Mike Shintaku Presents the fourth annual

EMERALD CITY KARATE CLASSICS
Karate / Kung Fu Championships

WHEN:
  September 19, 1992

WHERE:
  Evergreen High School
  830 SW 116th St
  Seattle Washington

ENTRY:
  1 Event:   $25.00
  Ea. Add'l: +$5.00

REGISTRATION:
  8:00 AM

ELIMINATIONS:
  9:30 AM SHARP!!

PRE-REGISTRATION:
  Competitors pre-rigistered before September 1, 1992 will receive a $2.00
  discount on the tournament t-shirt and a reduced entry fee.
  1 Event:   $20.00
  Ea. Add'l: +$5.00


SPECTATORS:
  Adults:   $5.00
  Under 18: $3.00
  Under 6:   Free
  Parents of Jr Competitors: FREE

AWARDS:
  1st, 2nd and 3rd place trophys and 4th place medal.

REQUIRED EQUIPMENT:
  Foam dipped hand, foot and head gear required.
  Mouth guards for all.
  Groin cups mandatory for all males.
  Karate, Kung Fu or school uniforms only.

RULES:
  Non-contact to the face.  Light to moderat body contact.  
  Adult Divisions: 2 Point head kick.  Sweeps and Groin techniques
  allowed.

FOR MORE INFO CALL  206 772-3307 or 206 237-9526
From: taddiken@ms.uky.edu (scott taddiken)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: kicking from the ground
Date: 13 Sep 92 18:48:18 GMT
    <1992Sep12.180637.1005@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> 
    <1992Sep13.165202.22573@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

Steven  Velasquez writes:
>
>As for the John Gilbey story (The Woman Who Couldn't Be Raped in The
>Way of A Warrior), the woman doesn't just lie back and "enjoy" it, she
>persuades her attacker to allow her to put him in a dojime (waist squeeze),
>and if he could escape, she would be cooperative.  He lost and had to be
>revived when help arrived.  This is a very powerful technique and is
>apparently not allowed in judo competitions.  In wrestling, a figure-four
>leg lock around someone's waist was allowed and usually resulted in
>a cooperative pin to relieve the pressure.
>

In judo you are allowed to lock your legs around the opponent's body in the
method (not really) described.  You are not allowed to squeeze the breath out
of him/her, though.  This is more because of a "propogation of illegality"
than because the technique is so dangerous, however.  The easiest defenses
to dojime involve locking the knee or ankle, lifting the opponent high overhead
and slamming him down, or pummeling the groin of the dojime-ist, the last
being perhaps not so useful in the example given.  These techniques are illegal
for safety reasons, some of which are perhaps debatable.  But dojime itself is
not that dangerous.

The figure four to the midsection in wrestling is applied from above, when
the opponent is on all fours.  This is NOT a major turning move.  It is NOT
all that effective on a strong opponent.

If you are looking for a technique banned in both judo and wrestling because
of its brutal results, look perhaps to the "crab" which applies pressure to the
spine, or perhaps the "head-stack" which applies bone-breaking pressure to the
vertebrae in the neck.  I will supply descriptions of their use, if you like.

Occasionally in judo a beginner will attempt dojime.  My response is what you
might call semi-legal.  Pinning one of the legs to the mat, I drive the point
of my elbow firmly into the soft muscle on the inside of the thigh or calf.
The result is excruciating, and it hasn't failed me yet.  Then I explain that
the technique they were using was illegal.

Technical point: Yes, to you judoka, I know that in that last technique, I'm
begging to be choked out.  Remember that I'm working with a beginner.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Savate and Muay Thai principles (was Boxing and Kicks)
Keywords: Precison emphasis vs. Power emphasis in kicks, what about *hands* ?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 11 SEP 92 11:27:18    


hahn@plugh.network.com (Peter Hahn) writes...
> 
>The commonly given analogy is that a Muay Thai kick is like a blow with a
>baseball bat, and a Savate kick is like a blow with a ball-peen hammer.
[expansion of idea omitted]

Thanks !   That's the impression I had gotten from watching what I assume is
the sport form of Savate (Boxe Francaise), and seeing a little Muay Thai,
but I wasn't sure if Savate did it differently.  

Do you have any thoughts on the difference in English , French, and Thai style
of *hand* techniques, as pertains to the French and Thai greater emphasis on 
feet ?

						much appreciated,

						todd
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Internal Arts...
Date: 11 Sep 1992 22:32:01 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep11.135555.1354@cs.rose-hulman.edu> acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU writes:
>i often hear t'ai chi, bagua and hsing-i (xingyi?) in the same sentence. 
>is there a lot of similarity in these three arts?

Only in the sense that all three depend heavily on "internal" development 
to make them work at all, albeit to three very different ends.  One might 
arguably include Aikido in the group (but not me, because the last thing
I want is a bunch of irate Chinese martial artists banging down my door in
the middle of the night... :-)

>what is the main concept behind each of them?

BaGua:  Go around the opponent (and bop them from behind).
Hsing-I:  Go through the opponent (as if they weren't even there).
T'ai Chi:  Reverse the strategic position of the opponent (and then do with 
           them as you will).

Disclaimer:  These are gross over-simplifications.  No warrantee expressed
             or implied.


-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: Boxing and Kicks
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 16:29:41 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.124548.13558@sei.cmu.edu> psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:
>...and suddenly I understood the profundity of
>the low-line kick.  It is fundametnally unstoppable.

Whenever I see phrases like "fundamentally unstoppable" I start to
have doubts. If there were one single technique that was clearly
superior to all others, no one would teach anything else.

>Hua Mountain Shaolin-style kung fu).  Even at age 60... he could
>easily kick my head faster than I could possibly guard.

Faster than you or I could block it, probably. Faster than _another_
Shaolin master (e.g. one of equal skill) could block it? I don't
think so, at least not consistantly.

Also, there are defences other than blocking that are _alot_ safer.
Dodging/blending with the attack has one major advantate: Even if you
can't avoid the blow, you still lessen the damage it will do.

>	What can you possibly tell me about the real utility of boxing
>	over MA?  That *not* using your feet is better?

I've seen quite a many excelent throws, designed as reactions to a
kick. Once you start to kick, you are commited to that action and
it is somewhat dificult to do anything else until you finish the
kick (depending, of course on how experienced you are, but I'd still
say this is more of a problem than with hand techniques from an
equally experienced fighter.) Being relatively vunerable during
the kick is a major disadvantage. Kicks are certainly usefull, but
they aren't all powerfull.

By the way, alot of "real" martial arts (most of the internal ones
I know of) don't use kicks much at all. Those they do use, tend to
be low and cover only a short distance. This gives up alot of the
power of other types of kicking, in exchange for better control.

                                                Frank Crary
                                                CU Boulder
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: kckbxr@next11pg2.wam.umd.edu (Robin Hood)
Subject: Re: Upcoming Martial Arts Movies
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 23:10:43 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.222058.179@news.uwyo.edu> rtravsky@news.uwyo.edu  
(Rich Travsky) writes:
> Well, our Macho Martial Arts Supply Catalog just arrived, along with
> its own version of the Hollywood Beat. Here is a list of upcoming/in
> progress martial arts films. The info related is pretty much all that
> the newsletter had to offer. Additons/corrections welcome.
> 
> - "Excessive Force", starring Thomas Ian Griffith, villain from "Karate 
>   Kid III"
> 
> - Chuck Norris' "Sidekick" is nearly ready for release; two other movies
>   appear to be in the works: "Cold to the Touch" and "Topkick"
> 
> - "Street Fight", with Jeff Speakman
> 
> - "Black Belt", with Don Wilson; Wilson is in a 'story' (the  
newsletter's
>   word for it) called "Out For Blood"
> 
> - "Karate Cop", with David Carradine and Ron Marchii; they defend women
>   and children in a post nuclear holocaust
> 
> - Gary Daniels will be in Hong Kong to work on a Jackie Chan film
> 
> - "Nemesis", with Oliver Gruner (who was in "Angel Town")
> 
> - "Surf Samurai", with Ernie Reyes Jr.; a comedy; rumor is that Leslie
>   Nielsen ("Naked Gun") will have a major role; to be filmed in Bangkok
> 
> - "Angel of Fury", "Golden Angel" , "Rage of Honor" : future Cynthia
>   Rothrock projects
> 
> - "Talons of the Eagle", with Billy Blanks (said to be the coach/tutor
>   for the "Raven" tv show) and Jalah Merhi; filming just completed;
>   filmed in Canada; also starring Pan Qingfu (of "Iron and Silk")
> 

I'd heard that Teenage Mutant Ninja III will be coming out this fall.   
Anybody else hear something of the same?

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re: kicking from the ground
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 02:11:45 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.223859.3448@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
>>Actually, I remember the news broadcast with the interview in question.
>>I remember Bobby Knight actually saying almost those exact words. 
>
>You seem to have missed the first half of his remark (which radically
>changes its meaning): He said, "If there is nothing she can do about
>it, a woman might as well try to..." This isn't exactly a sensitive
>remark, but it is _very_ different from the "women should just..."
>attributed to him. The way he actually said it, it is essentially
>an expression of fatalism, not perjudice against women.

Ah, are you implying that a woman unable to resist rape should try to
enjoy it?  I believe the implication that women can enjoy violent 
rape may have been the thing that got some women round these parts
riled up.  As a long-time Bloomington resident, I'm long since used
to Bobby's assinine antics (I'm just not used to his salary yet!), but
local feminists were not.  The best response I saw were the posters
that went up around town, commenting on his statement and including a 
rather crude cartoon of Bobby with a broomstick up his derriere.


Dakin 
burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,rec.arts.movies
From: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re: Upcoming Martial Arts Movies
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:39:21 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.120915.20939@marlin.jcu.edu.au> cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:
>
>He may well have been a kickboxing champion in Europe, but I still have
>no respect for Van Damme as a martial artist.   Reading the article
>in Black Belt on him, he tells the story of how he got his first
>movie roles.  I was pretty disgusted by his ego and attitude.   He
>may have good kicks but he doesn't seem to have learnt much humility.

I don't know about that.  He certainly does not make the ego-meter max out
like Segal does.  I also saw Van Damme on tv and he came off very
humble.  He was more interested in talking about conditioning than
about talking about the martial arts, and it sounded like his hero
was Arnold Schwartzenegger.  And remember that Black Belt interviewers
seem to work at making people sound like arrogant trained killers.  
Personally, I think Van Damme has every right to be proud of his 
success and is relatively humble, by Hollywood standards, at any rate.

Dakin
burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu

PS:  None of this means I like his movies though!
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts