HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bark@maxwell.physics.purdue.edu (Bark Kwangyl)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Chung, Ju Young and  Ross Perot
Keywords: Chung and Korean election
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:03:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: dirac.7193


Hi, folks!
It has been a long time since we debated about the superiority of HanGul.
How about changing topics?

One thing I want to hear about is your analysis/opinion of Korean Parliament
election. 
That election of Mar. 24 produced several contradictory signs
to be interpreted and one very obvious thing  to pay attention is the
successsful debut of former chairman of Hyunday Group, Chung Ju Young.
Everybody agree that he was the big winner of Mar. 24 election and
will become a very important factor in future Korean politics.

What the hell his successful tranformation means to Korean politics?
Is he a hero of Ross Perot?
Is it a natural trend that big tycoons  are trying to grep political power?
How the Korean public will react to presidential nominee, Chung in Nov.?
Is he a lone hero trying to save his country from economic disaster
or a old, deranged, power-sucking sob?
Can we believe his party's future blue print for economic justice?
 
I expect there are very broad spectrum of views.
Let me hear them.

P.S.  I am damm proud of the fact that I am the user of the well-organised,
scientific, unique Korean Alphabet.
I am still waiting for Scott's answer about his version of HanGul creation.
Give us  the names of those Chinese scholars who created HanGul, please.
From: jaeho@hardy.u.washington.edu (Jae Ho Shin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: "Superiority"
Date: 13 Apr 92 08:03:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Apr13.080344.25624
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Apr12.165104.21124@seas.gwu.edu> se020151@seas.gwu.edu (Hyok Lee) writes:
>
>horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne) writes:
>: In article <22649@dog.ee.lbl.gov>, yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang) writes:
>: 
>: <Oh-baek-won-jjari pihaengi-lul taeuji massayo !
>: 
>exactly, it would say: "Don't let a five-hundred Won airplane ride."
			^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
				IS IT ??? IT REALLY IS ???

GEEEZZZ,i thought 'don't make me embarassed by praise me too much'
From: hjkim@sol.UVic.CA (Hyong-Joong Kim)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Cha Mak - closed caption decoder
Summary: Poor ad.
Keywords: Change the sentences in Cha Mak ad
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:56:33 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.korean
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, B.C. CANADA

I second the motion, BIG TIME.
hyong-joong kim
From: hnkst2@icarus.lis.pitt.edu (Hanhwe han Kim)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Something totally NEW   :)
Date: 17 Apr 92 04:27:52 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

c60a-ca@amazon.Berkeley.EDU (Su M.) writes:
>Staying up at this wee hour(2am) while trying to finish up my CS
>project in this chilly computer lab, this thought just popped in
>my mind.  Would I be living a different life if I had gone to a college
>in Korea?  
>
>From what I *heard* from some of my pals in Korea, the colleges there 
>seem to put too little emphasis on academic achievement so the students 
>tend to feel less compelled to study.  My guess is that it will really
>depend on individuals but I do recall one line out of my friend's
>letter: "I still cannot acknowledge the fact that I am finally through
>with the 12 years of harsh academic environment.  Just don't know
>how to handle this sudden freedom(?)..."  And this is a lady who's
>currently enrolled in the Chemical Engineering Dept. at Seoul Nat'l Univ.
>we are talking about.  
>
>Anyone care to comment?  :)


Being in College in Korea is great, and I enjoyed it alot myself.
But the 'little emphasis on academic achievement' is only 
relative to the 6 years of Korean high school. I've found
general expectations for free time, and work pace and etc.
to be much laxer here in the US accross the board. You do
work on saturdays in Korea, and everybody puts in longer hours.
Undergrads in the US also seem to enjoy parties and alot of fun.
All within what one would expect given differences in living
standards in Korea and the US.

The early 20's are quite chaotic years for all Koreans. 
Between the ages of 19 and 25, the average college kid is
expected to complete 2.5 years in the Army, finish college,
find a job, and start thinking about getting married and etc.
The 4 years in college is for many the only time they will get
to think a little about 'what-you-really-want-to-do'. So the
memories tend to be cherished... which is probably true 
anywhere.

-han kim
From: hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Japan's Sex Tourist (Forwarded from soc.culture.japan)
Date: 10 Apr 92 23:59:46 GMT
Reply-To: hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu)
Organization: Columbia University

In article <1992Apr10.163509.24619@acsu.buffalo.edu> jae@acsu.buffalo.edu (Jaehoon Lee) writes:
>Following article was posted on soc.culture.japan.
>I guess the originator does not mind my forwarding this to here...
>---- Beginning of forwarded article ----
>Newsgroups:   bit.listserv.seasia-l
>Date:         Sun, 5 Apr 1992 18:18:23 PDT
>Sender: Southeast Asia Discussion List <SEASIA-L%MSU.bitnet@UCSFVM.UCSF.EDU>
>.....................[stuff].....
>   Aoki said the guidebook reflects a sexism prevalent in Japanese
>society.

I've been wondering for a long time WHY sexism appears to be much more
prevalent in Japan than other East Asian countries like Korea and China.
Any thoughts?

>many Japanese men read pornographic comic books and magazines while they
>commute on subways.

Big deal.  
Hard to understand why people are more upset about people doing this sort
of things in a less hypocritical fasion (in public) than in a hypocritical
fasion (do in private and denounce in public).

>   "Our purpose was to introduce foreign countries the way they are, and
>we have no intention to promote prostitution," Japan's largest
>newspaper, Yomiuri, quoted a Bestsellers editor as saying.
>--- End of Article ---

I accept this explaination.

harry/kb2lha
From: bark@maxwell.physics.purdue.edu (Bark Kwangyl)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: "Superiority" (Re: Representation of Korea in East Asian Studies)
Summary: "Superiority"
Keywords: Korea, East Asian Civilization
Date: 7 Apr 92 01:14:01 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.022709.20431@oracorp.com>, harper@oracorp.com (Douglas Harper) writes:
> In article <1992Apr2.063042.28598@cs.yale.edu> horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne) writes:
> ....
> >Oh, and something I forgot to mention:  _Han'gu<l_ was based on Chinese
> >letterforms ...

[ many parts by Mr. harper deleted]

> Can you cite real scholarship that establishes your claim?  Or did a
> friend of yours read all about it in Playboy?

Ha! Ha! Ha!

He read it but didn't inhale  it...


Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne)
Subject: Re: "Superiority"
Organization: Computer "Science" Dept, Yale University
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 01:10:31 GMT

In article <22645@dog.ee.lbl.gov>, yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang) writes:
<
<Yorubun, annyunghashimnikka !

_Ye, annyunghaseyo._

<On s.c.c., he has raised the ire of most Chinese readers by his slavish adherence 
<to the Chinese Communist Party line.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!  What a ridiculous statement.

<He has called pro-democracy activists and their 
<American supporters "whores" and "bitches",

Not true.

<argued against allowing Chinese students 
<to stay in the U.S.,

Wrong.  I've argued against using dishonesty as a means of procuring a
green card.

<taken a self-assumed mission to propagandize against the 
<Dalai Lama (as seen in his recent posting on sck),

Damn right.

<and at the time of Tiananmen
<posted a personal letter of support to Deng Xiaoping fingering several overseas 
<Chinese students by name.

This is bullshit.  Post a retraction and an apology.

<Concerning Taiwan, he has irritated readers by saying 
<Taiwan has neither culture nor any achievements in the last 40 years,

Wrong.  What I've said is that Taiwan's "culture" is simply a bastardisation
of China's culture, and that any economic "achievements" made in Taiwan
in the last forty years have had little if anything to do with the government
of Taiwan.

<that it has
<only "sleazy" South Korea and South Africa as friends,

That's true.  Hardly any countries recognise Taiwan.

<and that the People's Republic 
<is Taiwan's "legitimate government".  

It is.

<The more you talk to him, the more he will go to extremes to challenge your statements.

And your passing off of your semi-culturalism as biculturalism.

Again, I expect a retraction and an apology--that is, unless you hope to
find yourself at the receiving end of a libel suit.

<Joe Huang  (Hangungmalo Hwang Uk-irago hamnida)

Scott Horne (_Han'gungmal'o Scott Horne hamnida_).

					--Scott

-- 
Scott Horne                               ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne
horne@cs.Yale.edu      SnailMail:  Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT   06520
203 436-1848                Residence:  Rm 1848 Silliman College, New Haven, CT
ZANG4 HAN4 YI4 JIA1 / GONG4 JIAN4 ZHONG1HUA2!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne)
Subject: Re: korean and japanese culture
Organization: Computer "Science" Dept, Yale University
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 07:41:10 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.055347.7376@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, c9b-av@danube.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Chang) writes:
<
[About Korea and Japan:]
<Your cultures are basically watered down Chinese handouts.  It might
<hurt your egos, but it is true.

Like hell it is!  Defend your statement or retract it.

					--Scott

-- 
Scott Horne                               ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne
horne@cs.Yale.edu      SnailMail:  Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT   06520
203 436-1848                Residence:  Rm 1848 Silliman College, New Haven, CT
Shao2shan1 sheng1 de tai4yang2 yong3 bu2 luo4!
From: tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Death wishing ( was Birthday greetings )
Date: 15 Apr 92 21:50:16 GMT
Reply-To: tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com ()
Organization: IBM Austin Advanced Workstation Division

In article <1992Apr15.133647.12588@cs.yale.edu>, horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU
(Scott Horne) writes:
> From: horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne)
> Subject: Re: Death wishing ( was Birthday greetings )
> Organization: Computer "Science" Dept, Yale University
> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 13:36:47 GMT
> 
> In article <1992Apr15.110312.28090@acsu.buffalo.edu>,
jae@acsu.buffalo.edu (Jaehoon Lee) writes:
> <(Scott Horne) writes:
> <
> <>I'd like to take this opportunity to wish President Kim Ilsung a happy
> <>eightieth birthday.
> <
> <I'd like to take this opportunity to wish President Kim Ilsung's death
> <before his eighty-first birthday.
> 
> How nice.  What a friendly newsgroup.
> 
> 					--Scott
> 
My same wish to Scott Horne too. But not to the eighty-first birthday of
his, instead, immediate.

/* ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 * The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of IBM's.
 *
 * Take care and have a nice day.
 *
 * Ter-Yuan Lee
 * ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 */
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne)
Subject: Re: soc.culture.korean
Organization: Computer "Science" Dept, Yale University
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 05:07:38 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.232127.11564@vax5.cit.cornell.edu>, f8zy@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
<
<2. Who is this Scott Horne dude?

This from someone who doesn't even sign his name (which happens to be
James Hyun).

<Is he Chinese or something? (hehehe)

None of your goddam business.

<Why is it so important for us to know every detail of the invention of the
<Korean writing system? It exists!

Why is it so important for a few SCKers to feel "superiority" because of
the Korean writing system?

<Scott, from reading all this stuff it sure seems like you don't like Koreans
<at all...

What makes you think I'm not Korean myself?  You've seen me speaking Korean,
and I have a Korean surname.

					--Scott

-- 
Scott Horne                               ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne
horne@cs.Yale.edu      SnailMail:  Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT   06520
203 436-1848                Residence:  Rm 1848 Silliman College, New Haven, CT
ZANG4 HAN4 YI4 JIA1 / GONG4 JIAN4 ZHONG1HUA2!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne)
Subject: Re: Cha Mak - closed caption decoder
Organization: Computer "Science" Dept, Yale University
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 04:17:08 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.220148.1@galluj>, ckim@galluj writes:
<
<I am really disappointed that the
<advertise about closed caption decoder did not mention about it for hearing
<impaired people or deaf people. I am really angry about Korean saleman selling
<closed caption decoder for television not to mention it for deaf or hearing
<impaired people.

Indeed.  This is yet another example of disregard for the disabled.  But
Korean salesmen aren't the only guilty ones:  I've seen closed-caption
decoders advertised in many Chinese magazines, too, and *none* of them
mentions that they're intended for the hearing-impaired.

Fortunately, recent legislation will require all new TV sets produced in
the US to contain a caption-decoding device.  (I don't know whether this
legislation applies to foreign-made TV sets imported to the US.)  A chip
to decode captions costs manufacturers only $5-$10, but the devices the
hearing-impaired have had to buy cost well over $100.  Such legislation
is long overdue.

					--Scott

-- 
Scott Horne                               ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne
horne@cs.Yale.edu      SnailMail:  Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT   06520
203 436-1848                Residence:  Rm 1848 Silliman College, New Haven, CT
Shao2shan1 sheng1 de tai4yang2 yong3 bu2 luo4!
From: ar2j+@andrew.cmu.edu (Anthony Russell Rosania)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Looking for a Korean graduate student in Ohio State University
Date: 11 Apr 92 22:35:55 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Freshman, Drama, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Well, I am new here and not Korean (perhaps my name gave that away). I
probably don't have much to offer any discussion , but I AM interested
in picking up ideas and exchanging them when I can, so I will probably
remain mostly quiet...(I do not plan on making a fool out of myself as I
have seen others do in past posts).. I wanted to say hi....thats all.
Hope I didn't sound stupid.
						Anthony
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: dskim@eng.umd.edu (Daeshik Kim)
Subject: Re: Cha Mak - closed caption decoder
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 03:35:07 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Maryland, College Park

In article <1992Apr13.041708.5981@cs.yale.edu> horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne) writes:
>Fortunately, recent legislation will require all new TV sets produced in
>the US to contain a caption-decoding device.  (I don't know whether this
>legislation applies to foreign-made TV sets imported to the US.)  A chip
>to decode captions costs manufacturers only $5-$10, but the devices the
>hearing-impaired have had to buy cost well over $100.  Such legislation
>is long overdue.

	FYI, currently all Hotels have to have closed-caption
	decoder for the hearing-impaired for certain % (I forgot
	the number) of the rooms.

	BTW, sometime ago I've posted an article questioning about
	Mr. Horne's historical fact - "Chinese made Hangul under King Sejong".
	I'm waiting to see the answer; is this really historically
	true?
-- 
	Daeshik Kim	H: (703)273-1517 O: (703) 689-5878
	/PN=Daeshik.Kim/O=SprintIntl/ADMD=Telemail/C=US/@Sprint.com
	dskim@eng.umd.edu
From: ecovingt@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Maiko Covington)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: "Superiority" (Re: Representation of Korea in East Asian Studies)
Keywords: Korea, East Asian Civilization
Date: 6 Apr 92 19:20:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: sdcc12.31388

Just a question here. Is this "Yi-Du" writing Chinese characters or
altered Chinese characters that are used for their pronunciation
value only? I am just wondering because it kinda sounds like the 
"Chu Nom" system that was used in Vietnam. Just curious.
		Maiko Covington  ecovingt@sdcc13.ucsd.edu

P.S. About the shape of m, r, and l, I think that if someone has
     grown up writing in Chinese and then goes to make up their own
     system, they are just so used to Chinese writing order that
     they would naturally adopt that writing order for making these
     letters. I mean, I am used to writing Chinese characters and so
     I make ordinary squares/rectangles in the order of writing a
     hangul "m" (or kunigamae radical, if you will), but that
     doesn't mean squares are derived from either Korean or Chinese.
     It was most likely just habit.

Just my humble opinion of course.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne)
Subject: Re: "Superiority" (Re: Representation of Korea in East Asian Studies)
Organization: Computer "Science" Dept, Yale University
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 03:15:58 GMT

In article <1992Apr5.093749.28477@seas.gwu.edu>, se020151@seas.gwu.edu (Hyok Lee) writes:
<: 
<: <>But please tell me why the
<: <>Korean letters `m' and `r' are written as follows if not for Chinese
<: <>influence:
<: <>
<: <>	|	|----|	|----|
<: <>	|	|    |	|    |
<: <>	|	|    |	|    |
<: <>	|	|    |	|----|
<: <>
<: <>
<: <>	-----	-----	-----
<: <>	     |	     |	     |
<: <>	     	-----	-----
<: <>	     	 	|
<: <>			 ----
<: 
<: Good.  Then we agree.
<: 
<No, there only so many ways to draw a square and a circle.  Just because
<the bow and arrow existed many different parts of the world that there is only
<one place origin and the rest of the world copied the originators?
<Ridiculous.

Ah, but if one country gets the bow and arrow from its cultural elder brother,
then varies the design a bit, you'll suppose that the elder brother didn't
influence its sibling in the least?  Talk about ridiculous.

<: It's a final blow to those who falsely assert that _han'gu<l_ are an
<: independent creation of the Koreans.
<
<Any idiot knows that no invention is completely independent.

Yes, but some idiots (like you) claim otherwise.

<Could Einstein have existed without Newton? No.

Actually, Einstein didn't invent anything.

<: Read the treatise (in classical Chinese) which announced the creation of
<: _han'gu<l_.  You'll find all the evidence you need.
<
<Like the Chinese are going to give an objective observation of a
<Korean achievement.  Use your common sense.i

Moron.  Before Korean had a writing system of its own, Koreans wrote in
classical Chinese.  The people who wrote (in classical Chinese) the treatise
announcing the creation of _han'gu<l_ were Korean.  Do you wish to say that
Koreans aren't objective about a Korean achievement?  Hey, I'll agree with
you.  You're a case in point.

<What you don't know is that Koreans have always used the Chinese character
<in a different manner.  Many--not all-- times the characters were used
<merely for phonetic content, so a Chinese reading it would have no
<idea what is written.

Certainly I know that.  The Japanese, Ryu^kyu^ans, and Zhuang (a people of
southeast China, living near the border of Vietnam) did the same.

<P.S. Your assertion that King Sejong had some Chinese in his court
<is probably true.

I've never made such an assertion.

					--Scott

-- 
Scott Horne                               ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne
horne@cs.Yale.edu      SnailMail:  Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT   06520
203 436-1848                Residence:  Rm 1848 Silliman College, New Haven, CT
ZANG4 HAN4 YI4 JIA1 / GONG4 JIAN4 ZHONG1HUA2!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: se020151@seas.gwu.edu (Hyok Lee)
Subject: Horney to be Praised
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 07:25:08 GMT


You, know what?  I think Scott Horne is to be praised.  He got us
Koreans started on lively discussions on different subjects.  Don't get
me wrong,  Scott if you're reading this, you're still an asshole in
my book, but you're a tolerable asshole(for me at least).  I have got
to admit, some of the responses to him were pretty weak. This illustrates
the weak premises that we (and all human beings) base our opinions on.
If someone like Scott wants to pick a fight with many of you all out
there, it is very easy.  That is because many of you get emotional,
but not rational.  Oh, well...I guess the Korean-American community
cannot be that much better than the American society itself, I guess.

No matter what happens, though, I'm glad that fervent arguments are
made back and forth.  Keep it up folks (even you Scott Horne..
and this is not a compliment.....wouldn't want to you make too uncomfortable)


--
     ***************************************************************
     * Hyok Lee    George Washington University, SEAS              *
     *                                                             *
     * The guy who shitted got away and the guy farted got caught. *
     *                                 -Korean proverb             *
     *                                                             *
     ***************************************************************
        
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi)
Subject: reading by word or by character
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Distribution: soc.culture.korean
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 17:18:51 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.234229.9113@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> seo@capone.ccsm.uiuc.edu (Jong-Wook Seo) writes:
>Somebody claimed that we read a sentence word by word not character by 
>character.
>I don't think so.
>When we read a word, we don't read the whole word at once.
>Basically, we read character by character.

I am not a linguist.  But becaues of my interest in the subject, I read a
few things that came on my way, and I tend to remember what I read.  Except
I cannot remember where I read it. :(

I remember reading that we read by word, not by character.  If we read by
character, it will be exceedingly slow.  And if we really read each
character, we would not have trouble spelling words we read.  And we would
never mix up two words that have similar spelling but different meaning
such as 'sheer' and 'shear.'

>Honestly, I haven't checked or heard about the differences in the 
>recognition of a word between Korean and English.

If you look at a foreigner reading hangul, they go to a very slow phase
where they read each component and assemble the sound of each letter
(syllable), then they evolve to read each syllable in one shot (pattern
recognition of the syllable) and then only when they start reading the
word, they are truly proficient.  I never saw anyone reaching that level.
Another case is when you read something out loud to someone else.  We tend
to go off tangent and correct ourselves because the actual word was
different from what we recognized initially.

>However, I think Korean writing system has a nicer feature also in reading 
>because of its geometrical compactness.

There was an article written by a Japanese (I can dig up this one if you
want me to) about different way of reading chinese characters and japanese
characters.  He claimed that each one uses different part of the brain.
And he went on to say that Japanese are in unique position because they
read both simultaneously, whereas Americans read only sound and Chinese
read only symbols.  I remember reading this article because I noticed the
author failed to set Japanese apart from Koreans.

>I think this is also the reason why we feel inconvenience if we write 
>Hangul in a series.

I think this is just our habit.

>Jong-Wook Seo

James Choi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean