From: pooh@group-w.uchicago.edu (Pooh @ the Utility Muffin Research Kitchen)
Newsgroups: soc.singles
Subject: Re: Love: It is a precious thing?
Date: 13 Apr 92 18:15:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: midway.1992Apr13.181526.26862
Organization: Medieval England, Iowa

In article <zywj99f@lynx.unm.edu> blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.) writes:
>In article <1992Apr12.131721.9414@midway.uchicago.edu> pooh@group-w.uchicago.edu (Pooh @ the Utility Muffin Research Kitchen) writes:
>>In article <w3vj22b@lynx.unm.edu> blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.) writes:
>>rON, again, you're falling into a trap.  If someone breaks up with
>>you, in your bitterness you want to pretend that s/he could only do
>>so because s/he never felt anything for you to begin with; therefore
>>it wasn't a Real Relationship.  Bullshit.  
>
>Bullshit back, sistah. 
>You presume off of one post that all my relationships have broken down,
>leaving me a wasted, bitter wreck? Try again.

No, I presume nothing of the sort.  Why don't you read what I wrote?
IF someone breaks up with you, I said, here appears to be your reaction.
In fact, you even confirm it:
>With everybody I've ever talked to, who was in the short end of a uni-
>directional relationship, they've all felt like thier strings were being
>pulled. Myself included.
>Hell, its natural to feel that you've been had.
>Its much easier than blaming yourself.

So rather than acknowledge that maybe the other person *did* really
care about you, you'd rather feel that you've been "had".  THAT's
what I call bullshit.

>>As I said, ALL relationships end one way or another.  If you do the
>>breaking up with someone, are you really going to tell me that you
>>never really were in love with her?  Did you get involved *because*
>>you weren't interested, so that you could have all the "power" and
>>trash her life? WHY DO YOU BOTHER GETTING INTO RELATIONSHIPS, THEN?
>
>Oh, c'mon Pooh- your expanding the object parameters again to fit your
>arguement- and implying that I'm either again a bitter wreck, or a
>heartless cad. 

No, I'm trying to get you to admit that there is something in between.

>I used to attend a weekly social gathering, was one of the 'leaders' or
>respected members of the group. One girl, we'll call her 'Lisa' for the
>purposes of discussion, was pretty much compleatly enamored with me. We
>are talking a pretty serious 'crush'. Well, I didn't realize it was a
>crush, or how serious it was until later....Anyways, I ended up dating
>her. Why? Well, the girl was persistant. I admire persistance. So I
>figured, 'What the hey, what've I got to lose'. Well, after a while of
>trying, even sex, I realized that I felt pretty much nothing (love wise)
>for this girl. Oh, she was a nice person and all, but love? not. So I
>broke off the 'relationship'.

So, do you think she's sitting around right now saying to herself
"That rON, he never cared about me, he was just pulling my strings.
I've been had." ??  What would you say to her?  

It seems that when YOU break off a relationship, you can readily
acknowledge that you had good reasons for breaking up with her that
had nothing to do with wanting to hurt her.  And yet when someone
breaks up with you, you'd prefer not to acknowledge that maybe she
had equally good reasons.  You'd rather say "I've been had."

As you said, "it's easier than blaming yourself."  You don't NEED
to assign blame; you just need to realize that relationships break
up for a lot of reasons -- shit happens -- and that it DOESN'T mean
you were had.  It DOESN'T mean the other person "won."

>And, Pooh, don't go expaniding this to say 'ah, ha! you *were* in love with
>her, because you felt bad....'

I wasn't about to.

>Not quite- I am a generally empathetic person- I care for people, and don't
>like to see people hurt- in a 'relationship' with me or not.

So why can't you acknowledge that other people are the same way,
and that they're not out to "pull your strings" when they have
relationships with you that don't work out?

>Oh, Ghods. I'm a bitter old fool again.
>The way you presume that all of my relationships have ended up by me
>blaming the other person, or something like that, is absolutely amazing.
>I've been in one-way relationships from both directions, I've been in a
>relationship that broke off from mutual consent, in love and friendship,
>I've been in relationships in between.
>
>I know the differences.

I don't know how old you are, but I *do* see this tendency to focus
on your own perspective rather than being able to see someone else's
side of things.  If someone cares less for you than you did for
her, you say you feel you've been "had".  If YOU do it, though, you're
a generally empathetic person and you care for people.  Care to
explain the cognitive dissonance in that?

>>>Like I was saying above- cheap sex is available at your local bar, and a good
>>>dog (or cat) can provide you your brief feelings of love and compainionship...
>>>The Real(tm) point of a relationship is to attempt to establish a working
>>>viable co-existance with a MOTAS- one that is mutually beneficial sexually,
>>>emotionally, etc.
>>How is this different from your 'prescription' for me for cheap sex
>>and a dog or cat?   Cheap sex is mutually beneficial (right, Dan?)
>>and my relationship with my cats is emotionally mutually beneficial.
>
>You are honestly trying to say that all of your emotional needs are
>fufilled by your cats? And you are satisfied with cheap sex?
>I know you're not >that< stupid to not understand what was meant by
>'mutually beneficial'. 

No, I'm not saying that, but it sure looked like you were.  You
still haven't explained the reason why you say that rather than
look for a relationship, however short, one should "get a damn dog".

>>But let me tell you something -- it's NOTHING compared to being even
>>in a short relationship.  If you can't appreciate the time in a relationship
>>while it's happening, and not regret it later even if it breaks up,
>>then I feel sorry for you.
>
>The entire discussion was about a short relationship where one partner was
>much more in love with the other....

My point exactly.  You seem to think that it's impossible to appreciate
such a relationship if you're the one who gets left.  I say bullshit.

>Some people >are< put together differently emotion-wise, Pooh.

So it would seem.

Pooh
      pooh@group-w.uchicago.edu