From: music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH)
Newsgroups: sci.physics
Subject: Re: Religion & Physics Don't Mix
Date: 11 Nov 1992 16:23 PST
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
Distribution: world
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Keywords: faith  science  religion  Paul
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <BxF7qH.LEw@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU>, sschaff@roc.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Stephen F. Schaffner) writes...
>In article <1992Nov7.212535.312@aee.aee.com>, gene@aee.aee.com (Gene Kochanowsky) 
>writes:
>|> sschaff@roc.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Stephen F. Schaffner) writes:
> 
>|> >	This is complete nonsense.  There may be religious leaders who 
>|> >demand unquestioning acceptance of belief, but I've certainly never met one.  
>|> >As a matter of interest, how many have you actually asked?  Most religions 
>|> >do indeed require some kind of intellectual commitment eventually, but in the 
>|> >varieties I'm familiar with that commitment is compatible with continued 
>|> >questioning.  
>|> 
>|> 	What planet do you come from? It is not Earth. There can be no religion
>|> without faith. With no faith, the congregation becomes a social club of like 
>|> thinking people. 
> 
>This part of GK's post has been well-answered by Keith Ramsay in another post, 
>who offers an existence proof for the compatibility of religion and 
>questioning (to give extreme examples, try checking with the nearest Unitarian 
>minister or Reformed rabbi on the subject).  He's also right, this part of 
>the subject belongs in another newsgroup.  
> 
> 
> 
>|> 	Or if you are a bible thumper try this quote for size:
>|> 
>|> 		"proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing"
> 
>	I doubt I've ever thumped a Bible, and I can't imagine a reason for 
>thumping a bible, but I'll bite anyway: where's the quote from?
> 
> 


    What I would like to ask, in view of all the dictionary and other
 definitions of "faith" that have been flying around on this newsgroup,
 why not let the Bible tell us what faith is?  Let the book do its
 own talking.

    Here's a quote from Paul, the writer of the letter to the Hebrews:

     "Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the *evident
      demonstration* of realities though not beheld."  (Asterisks mine).

    What this means is that we have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow
 since it always has in the past.  Paul talked a lot about faith in chapters
 11 and 12 of his letter.  The key here is that faith is based on something,
 a reasoned conclusion about things based on observation, study, and 
 experience.  In another letter to Christians in another area, he talked
 about those who "checked to see whether these things were so", and that
 these people were noble and to be emulated (held as an example).

 Then (in Hebrews) he goes on to talk about the motivating power of faith,
 and how it can produce tremendous endurance under severe test.

 As such, does not Science comes close to being a religion?


 Fred W. Bach ,    Operations Group        |  Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca
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 Some who brag about their open minds should have them closed for repairs.
Newsgroups: sci.physics