HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:41:58 EST
From: <CSD108@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
 <1993Jan24.061047.18557@cc.gatech.edu> <1993Jan26.081909.1@woods.ulowell.edu>

In article <1993Jan26.081909.1@woods.ulowell.edu>, steevesm@woods.ulowell.edu
says:
>CAUTION!!!  SPOILERS...of a sort....
>
>> 1. Rand, the dragon, is the son of the wife of the brother of the king
>> who is the father of Lan.
>
>NO!!!  Rand is an Aiel.  His mother was a Maiden of the spear, who came down,
>while pregnant with Rand, and fought in the Aiel war.  She died on the Dragon
>mount, where Tam found the baby and dead mother.
>
Well probably. But what is kind of interesting to me is that Maidens of the
Spear are not supposed to go into battle when they're pregnant. Hmmmm.

--Craig D.

_______________________________________________________________________
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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: wade@decatur.Stanford.EDU (Elizabeth Wade)
Subject: writing styles (was Re: Tolkien's (and Donaldson's) style)
Organization: Psychology Dept, Stanford Univ.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 02:25:20 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.190732.21508@fnbc.com> frank@fnbc.com (Frank Mitchell) writes:
>
>PROBLEM: a succession of he said -- she said -- he said ... tends to be  
>monotonous, and occassionally painful for certain readers (like me).
>
>QUICK FIX: replace all instance of "said" with snazzy synonyms.
>
>NEW PROBLEM: snazzy synonyms are more distracting.
>
>
>First of all, most of the "said"s are superfluous, especially in a two-person  
>conversation.  The reader needs only an occasional reminder of who's talking.   
>Second, there are other ways to indicate who's speaking: *sensible* actions  
>accompanying speech (what said-bookisms try to suggest), other characters  
>addressing the speaker (generally before he speaks, to avoid confusion).   
>Third, nothing is absolutely wrong.  But said-bookisms, along with everything  
>else, must be used with moderation and judgement -- and a solid idea why he's  
>doing what he's doing.  In this case, less is more.

Couldn't agree more.

For an example of a writer who made it through 3 longish novels
without a *single* "said," "gasped," "intoned," or any other verb of
saying, try Jane Fancher (_Groundties_, _Uplink_, _Harmonies of the
Net_).  Highly stylized, but works quite well, IMHO.

Liz
--
wade@waldron.stanford.edu           O-O  
                                   (---)
      Some snarks                 (    )
      are Boojums.                ^ ^ ^^
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: frank@fnbc.com (Frank Mitchell)
Subject: Re: Tolkien's (and Donaldson's) style (was Re: writing Styles)
Organization: First National Bank Of Chicago, Chicago IL, USA
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 19:14:26 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.190732.21508@fnbc.com> frank@fnbc.com (Frank Mitchell)  
writes:
> ...  But said-bookisms, along with everything  
> else, must be used with moderation and judgement -- and a solid idea why he's  
> doing what he's doing.

Cut and paste gets me in more trouble...  This should read:

But a writer must use said-bookisms, along with everything else, with  
moderation and judgement -- and a solid idea why he's doing what he's doing.

--
Frank Mitchell,	Business Systems Analyst, First National Bank of Chicago
email:frank@fnbc.com (NeXTmail)

"I see the problem.  You have a refrigerator on your legs."
-- "Didi", _Death: THe High Cost of Living_
From: pierce@acsu.buffalo.edu (Gregory M. Pierce)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai(mat)
Keywords: My sincere apologies for my botched replies. I'm still working bugs out for using the net.
Date: 28 Jan 93 14:16:56 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci

In article <1993Jan26.195326.7489@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> martinw@ss14.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Martin Wetterhorn) writes:
>
>	What I keep trying to say in regard to mat, is that he began
>	speaking the old tongue, during the fight against trollocs
>	before reaching Shadar Logoth.

Martin's correct here.  I don't intend on spitting page numbers out, but
there is a battle before the group enters Shadar Logoth in which Mat shouts
something along the lines of "forward the Red Eagle".  Someone one with
access to the book can correct me on the exact words.  I believe Egwene
also mentions that she found the words familiar.  So although the dagger
may have somehow accentuated Mat's connection with the past, the connection
existed before he came into contact with it.

Greg



-- 
===============================================================================
Gregory M. Pierce                            "Back off man, I'm a scientist."
State University of New York at Buffalo	     Dept. of Computer Science
INTERNET: pierce@cs.buffalo.edu              BITNET: pierce@sunybcs.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: How do you lose a planet? (was Questions about Pern...)
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 01:44:20 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1ja30o$jjo@agate.berkeley.edu> cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu writes:
>In article <1j8of4INNdks@ftp.UU.NET> sef@Kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan) writes:

>>Note that you, yourself, do the same thing, for the same reason:  you sell
>>a full feed of ClariNet, for a largish price, and a smaller feed, for
>>a smallerish price.  I understood it perfectly that the reason Earth had
>>a "small" Library was because of payment reasons.

>And the find of the Thennanin ship's Library seems to reinforce that
>opinion: the Library on a *ship* has more data than the Library for a
>whole *planet?*  Su-u-ure.

Dorothy, assuming that technology has reached the point where the cost
of the information is the limiting factor, not the cost of the storage
medium or its bulk, then it is hardly surprising that a ship library
might be larger than a planetary library.

After all, libraries won't be sold like books today - it's too easy to
dopy the information.  Instead, they would probably be sold as site
licenses on a per race basis.  In that case, once the Thenanin paid
their money they could have as many libraries as they wanted anywhere
they were Thenanin.  They would also have an obligation not to let it
get into the hands of others.  If the Library Institute finds out the
humans managed to snag a Thenanin copy the Thenanin may owe a very
large penalty.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup)
Subject: Re: Brin's 'The Postman' (Spoilers)
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 11:11:39 GMT

In article <1jkn7tINNavf@shaman.nexagen.com> cordell@shaman.nexagen.com (Bruce Cordell) writes:
>qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup) writes:
>>[my own comments removed]
>
>I have to disagree with this assement of The Postman. The interjection
>of Cyclops into the story was, in my mind, a great glowing hope
>for the protagonist, which in the end prooved to be a nothing but
>a sham.

So far, I agree completely. The hope, which turns out to be a sham is
a nice touch - and a central part - of the story. The part about it
which I don't like is, why does it have to be an AI? The whole story
would have been so much more powerful if Brin had kept to 'mundane'
things. Things, which we know and have right NOW. That is what I find
especially beautiful about the first part. It is a science fiction
novel which doesn't require you to suspend disbelief by introducing
unlikely concepts.

>        However, the nonfunctioning AI did infect our hero with a 
>strong feeling of responsiblity for the state of civilization, and
>motivation to try and pull it together. This idea of saving civilization
>seemed to me to be one of the major themes in the book, and it
>was handled superbly. 

Right, but the same thing could have been done without an AI.

>Additionally, assuming the government was conducting experiments to 
>augment normal men to supernormal levels, I can't think of a more
>appropriate place for them to wind up than in charge of the survivalist
>factions in the event of a Post-holocaust world.

That is true, but don't real-life, already existing a..holes fit the
bill also? The Holnists were quite believable for me without any kind
of augmentation. They showed an all too realistic extrapolation of the
basic human selfishness. This was spoiled for me by making them - the
leaders - former government tools. Kind of pushing the guilt for their
behaviour away from the single human being towards this big, gray
thing called 'Government'.

>                                                 It seemed fitting
>to me that these soldiers were brought down in the end of the book
>by a man who had also been augmented, but who's philosophy leaned
>towards peace and nonaggresion.

It is very fitting, but again I think that the novel would have benn
better without that special effect. Also more believable.

>                                Overall, (You can probably tell), I
>loved the story.

Don't get me wrong. I liked it, too. Unfortunately, Brin spoiled it
a bit for me by going for effect in those 2 specific places.

Greetings,
--Mike

-- 
#include <std-disclm.h>--"... and there is a small flaw in my character."---
Real Life: Michael Christian Heide Qvortrup      A Dane         ETH, Zuerich
e-mail   : qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch                  abroad         Switzerland
Institut fuer wissenschaftliches Rechnen  /  Inst. of Scientific Computation
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper)
Subject: Re: Alternates
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 05:27:40 GMT

In article <9301212229.AA01148@student0.cl.msu.edu> blakeley@student.msu.EDU (Christopher Blakeley) writes:
> Is it possible to introduce the topic of Alternative Universes, as compiled
> masterfully by Gregory Benford?

Introduce it?  I don't think so, since Robert Schmunk just posted the
latest version of the "Alternate Histories" list a few days ago,
listing 860 alternate histories (four of which were by Benford).

I *think* you're referring to Benford and Greenberg's anthologies WHAT
MIGHT HAVE BEEN, but if you could be a bit more explicit about what you
wanted to discuss....

Evelyn C. Leeper  |  +1 908 957 2070  |  att!mtgzy!ecl or  ecl@mtgzy.att.com
--
"To make the point [that homosexuals hamper military effectiveness] I'd
say that you would have to sift through your military history till you
find an instance in which failure has been attributed to the presence
of homosexuals on the losing side.  I'm not aware of any such case in
the past 2500 years, but I'd be interested to hear what you find."
-Nathan Engle
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: wade@decatur.Stanford.EDU (Elizabeth Wade)
Subject: Re: Bruce McAllister / Bibliographies on the net
Organization: Psychology Dept, Stanford Univ.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 04:21:38 GMT

pjs@euclid.jpl.nasa.gov (Peter Scott) writes:

>Friend asked what I knew about Bruce McAllister and all I'd heard
>was the name, which was all my s-f-minded friends knew either.
>I used xgopher and xwais and came up with references to a story of
>his in "Alien Sex" and a book edited by "McAllister and Harrison",
>presumably him and Harry.
>
>What else is there to this McAllister fellow and are there s-f
>bibliographies on the net?  Couldn't find anything with xwais
>and xgopher besides the above.


Bruce McAllister is an English professor at a small university in
southern California.  He's written two novels, _Humanity Prime_
(published in the early 70's but recently back in print, I believe)
and _Dream Baby_ (1990 or so).  Sorry I don't have publication
details.  He's also written numerous short stories; saw one called 
I believe "The Girl who Loved Animals" in an issue of _Omni_ from
about 1989.

Hope that's better than nothing.

Liz
--
wade@waldron.stanford.edu           O-O  
                                   (---)
      Some snarks                 (    )
      are Boojums.                ^ ^ ^^
From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (jerry cullingford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: How do you lose a planet? (was Questions about Pern...)
Date: 20 Jan 93 09:58:34 GMT
Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom.

In article <1993Jan18.023802.3067@clarinet.com> brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes:
>And I feel you underestimate the data storage capcity technology of the
>future.

>Remember, we're talking written information here, not multimedia or any
>of that space-consuming stuff.   Plain old facts, designs and such.

Hmm.. I think you'd have to talk multimedia if you want to store _designs_.
Engineering drawings are just too useful to do without. And probably the
galactic equivalent of "if your spark plug looks like this, you're doing
this wrong" :-)

Similarly, you'd probably need audio for language examples.

Anyone for HPGL (Heiroglyphic Progenitors Graphic Language) ? :-)





-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------------+     |
| Jerry Cullingford  #include <std.disclaimer> +44 442 230000 x3868|   ,-|--
| jc@crosfield.co.uk (jc@cel.uucp) or jc@selune.demon.co.uk        |   \_|__
+-----(Work)---------------------------------(home)----------------+ \___/
From: JeffS@cup.portal.com (Jeffrey K Seidel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Memory,Sorrow and Thorn
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 19:33:49 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

Hi,
   I've been reading this series by Tad Williams but things seem
to have come to a halt since 'The Stone of Farewell'. Does anyone
have any information on it? Did something happen to Tad Williams?
I really enjoyed this series but book 3 has been a long time
coming (Walden Books says they have no info on a release date
and no title listed as an upcoming release). Any info would be
appreciated.
                                         JeffS
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jet@boxer.nas.nasa.gov (J. Eric Townsend)
Subject: Re: The the great ongoing misogyny/misandry discussion
Organization: Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation, NASA Ames
Date: 22 Jan 93 17:39:45

"ADFMcLean_CSD" == Alexandra Haropulos.ADFMcLean CSD <Alexandra_Haropulos.ADFMcLean_CSD@XEROX.COM> writes:

ADFMcLean_CSD> It appears that SFantasy in particular is veering off
ADFMcLean_CSD> into some rather 'radical feminist' directions. I no
ADFMcLean_CSD> longer read much new Anne McCaffrey or Marion Zimmer
ADFMcLean_CSD> Bradley, because I have gotten a bit tired of listening

If MZB and McCaffrey (of all people) are "feminist writers", then I'm
the reincarnated Miles Davis.

There's a big difference between "feminist fiction" and "fiction
written by a feminist".  In the case of MZB and McCaffery, I'd just
lump them under "fiction written by somebody who knows some
buzzplots".

IMHO, feminist fiction would include:

_Handmaid's Tale_
_The Female Man_, Russ
"All Our Darling Daughters" (is that the right title?)
one or two of the shorts in the anti-resolution-conflict anthlogoy by
Shiner the name of which escapes me this moment
some of Tiptree's work

fiction by feminists would include:
_Falling Woman_, Pat Murphy
_Mindplayers_, Pat Cadigan
some more of Tiptree's work


ADFMcLean_CSD> crystal hugging/singing/worshipping/younameit)...These
ADFMcLean_CSD> authors are MAN HATERS! As well as Luddites. (I'm sure

And you're a moron for bothering to consider them a writer of note,
much less ascribing all sorts of radical points of view to them.
--
J. Eric Townsend --  jet@nas.nasa.gov -- 415.604.4311 (DoD# 0378)
"It is the cunning of form to veil itself continually in the evidence
of content.  It is the cunning of the code to veil itself and to produce
itself in the obviousness of value." -- Baudrillard
From: phydeaux@guru.med.cornell.edu (Dave Weingart)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Zelazny
Date: 21 Jan 1993 16:34:41 GMT
Organization: CUMC
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: guru.med.cornell.edu

In article <1993Jan21.135404.3425@odin.diku.dk>, damm@diku.dk (Kristian Damm Jensen) writes:
 
|> Why then use the egyptian names?

Why not?  Maybe he likes the way it sounds?  In my own fiction (as yet unsold,
although I _do_ have my collection of rejection slips), I prefer characters who
have names that I like to pronounce (not necessarily weird, but it bugs me
when authors put in names that clearly can't be pronounced, but are collections
of random consonants)

|> No. A lot of names carry connotations (or whatever it's called, it been
|> a while since I was tought literature). A name like Jesus can't be
|> used in just any setting without confusing the reader, who has some
|> expectations to that particular name.

Personally, I don't have too many expectations of a character based
on names of gods, although it might be vaguely jarring to go into a
restaurant and be greeted with, "Hi!  My name's Jehovah and I'll be
your waiter today!"

|> Right. But many names does. A name like deGaulle would be badly chosen
|> if the caracter hasn't anything to do with the old general. John Smith
|> on the other hand wouldn't give any trouble.

I disagree.  Why _should_ a character named deGaulle have anything to do
with the General?  If I read a book and there's someone named Reagan, should
I expect him to be a hazy, bumbling, far-to-the-right-of-Atilla-the-Hun
fool?

-- 
73 de David Weingart  KB2CWF    In the event I am captured or killed, the
phydeaux@cumc.cornell.edu       Cornell University Medical College and the
phydeaux@guru.med.cornell.edu   Department of Academic Computing will disavow
phydeaux@src4src.linet.org      any knowledge of my opinions.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.arts.comics.misc
From: kt1@herahera.cc.bellcore.com (tellefsen,karen a)
Subject: New Jersey Science Fiction Society
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 22:03:32 GMT
Followup-To: poster



The New Jersey Science Fiction Society (NJSFS) is a group of shy, quiet 
people who like to read. It is a non-profit, literary organization 
registered in the state of New Jersey. NJSFS generally meets the third 
Saturday of the month at the Belleville Masonic Temple, and features 
writers, artists, editors and other pros in the field.  Its newsletter, 
THE INTERGALACTIC REPORTER, is published monthly, and is available 
with membership or by subscription at $12.00 per year.  Memberships 
can be had at $4.00 per meeting, or $40 per year (11 meetings).

The next meeting will be Saturday, February 21 at 7 PM.
The speaker will be comic book writer Len Kaminitz (Marvel's "Dr, Strange"
and "Iron Man". 

For more information, call:

Allan Lappin  201/251 9123
e-mail  71341.350@compuserve.com

or write to: 

NJSFS
PO Box 65
Paramus NJ 07653-0065
  
or send e-mail to:

Karen Tellefsen  kt1@cc.bellcore.com
(Don't send me mail from the news server; it will bounce!)
From: datta@durban.berkeley.edu (Ruchira Datta)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Skybowl Is Out!
Date: 26 Jan 1993 16:39:48 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Math. Department.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: durban.berkeley.edu
Summary: Melanie Rawn's Dragon Star #3
Keywords: Rawn

I saw the third book in Melanie Rawn's *Dragon Star* 
trilogy, entitled *Skybowl*, in hardcover at Waldenbooks
yesterday, as well as the paperback version of the
second book, entitled *The Dragon Token*.

I have really enjoyed this series so far.  In case
anyone doesn't know, this trilogy follows another,
the *Dragon Prince* trilogy.  But don't take that as
an indication that Rawn is "sequelling" - each of her
books, so far, has been extremely complex and interesting,
IMHO.  And don't be put off by the word "Dragon" in the
titles (as I have heard some people are) - these books
are really about *people*.  If you enjoy intricately
plotted fantasy with 3-dimensional characters, check 
these books out.

-- Ruchira
datta@math.berkeley.edu
From: higgins@fnalf.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Mediocre translation (was Re: Vernor Vinge's new book...)
Date: 25 Jan 93 19:26:41 -0600
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: fnalf.fnal.gov

In article <MATT.93Jan25121231@physics2.berkeley.edu>, matt@physics2.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern) writes:
> The Net messages were a bit too lifelike to seem realistic: it's hard
> to imagine that level of immaturity when the participants are entire
> civilizations, and when posting costs a noticeable fraction of one's
> planetary wealth.  Still, even that isn't completely implausible: what
> we're reading isn't the postings themselves, but the translations of
> the translations of the translations of the postings.  We can imagine
> that the postings seem more sensible to the alien civilizations that
> posted them than they do to us, and that the sophomoric flavor of many
> of the postings is just the way that the translation programs attempt
> to deal with what are really incomprehensibly alien viewpoints.

Thanks for the tip, Matt.  From now on, I will pretend this is true
when I'm reading Usenet.  I think my peace of mind will be enhanced.

Death to vermin.

-- 
     O~~*           /_) ' / /   /_/ '  ,   ,  ' ,_  _           \|/
   - ~ -~~~~~~~~~~~/_) / / /   / / / (_) (_) / / / _\~~~~~~~~~~~zap!
 /       \                          (_) (_)                    / | \
 |       |     Bill Higgins   Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
 \       /     Bitnet:     HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET
   -   -       Internet:  HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV
     ~         SPAN/Hepnet:      43011::HIGGINS 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine)
Subject: Re: Vernor Vinge's New Book...
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 16:45:12 GMT

David.Dyer-bennet@f30498.n1125.z0.tdkt.kksys.com (David Dyer-bennet) writes:

About A Fire Upon the Deep:

>I enjoyed it immensely.  For some reason the scenes with the doggies
>didn't properly engage my attention, but I can't see why; I can't
>analytically find anything "wrong" with them.  

Lenore:
>>P.S. Notice how well he's captured the flavor of the Net? I'm sure
>>that "Death to Vermin" guy's posted here before :-) .

David:
>I both greatly enjoyed, and was very bothered by, this aspect.  Given
>the time-span involved, I think it's *wrong* for the net to be so
>completely recognizable.  (I have this same problem with Card's net
>in the Ender books.)

But sometimes the far future has to be interpreted to make it familiar.
For examples, Vinge's Beyond humans come from so far in the future that they
are not members of any current race (and there are hints that their
genes have been extensively edited). Is it reasonable that the language
they speak would so resemble Norwegian, or indeed, any Indo-European
language? And yet, having them use words from a real language, one
related to English, but one not many of us are familiar with, does
give this world a feeling of reality that names and words from an 
invented language would not.