From: CDELL@VAX1.UMKC.EDU ("VALENTINE M. SMITH")
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Response to S. Viznyuk's 3 November post on the Baltics ...
Date: 7 Nov 92 16:53:18 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

Date: 03 Nov 1992 15:00:00 -0500 (EST)
From: SERGEI VIZNYUK <VIZNYUK%MPS.OHIO-STATE.EDU@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Subject: Outburst of Baltic fascism

>This posting below, which is just an example of routine traffic on
>BALT-L list could serve as another confirmation of what the new
>Baltic "democracy" is. Unlike Finnish liars whose prolific writings
>are flooding this forum since recently, Baltic apologets of fascism
>don't hide their thoughts. I'm glad to see finally the prove which
>comes from the representative of the very same Baltics, that the
>latter are, in fact, no better than were Soviets. And they take the
>Stalin's policies as an example to follow.

Well, I would question your use of the word "routine," and I would
question that what you post below "confirms" Baltic "fascism." I
believe that your hatred of the Balts continues to blind you as to
the effect the deportations of thousands of Balts in June 1941 at the
orders of Stalin had on the Baltic populations. Yes, I believe the
Baltics are rightfully angry at the Russians, for the deportations,
and now for the continued violation of their internationally
recognized sovereignty by the ongoing presence of about 100,000
Russian troops.

Many Balts find such behavior unconscionable, and have done hateful
and stupid things in response. The exclusion of Russians from voting
in Estonia, special language provisions in Baltic law for
"minorities," and an overall hostility for Russians on Baltic soil
are negative and counter-productive activities. However, having said
that, I would also say this - Russia needs to get the hell out of the
Baltics, and soon. With anti-state activity in Dushanbe, the
"Trans-Dniester" region, Ingushetia, Tatarstan, North Ossetia, and
with Russians fighting with Abkhazi against Georgians, the Russian
plate is plenty full without continuing to hassle the Balts too.

>>Forwarded from BALT-L list:
>>---------------------------------------------------
>> Broadcast to list 3 November 1992
>> Original sender:"ag849@cleveland.Freenet.Edu" "Aurelia M. Balas"
>> 3-NOV-1992 03:12:59.42
>>
>> Subj: Re: BALT:2873 IMF at root cause of Lithuanian results?

>> I am glad to read your report. The constant repetition of "violation
>> of minorities civil rights" is a slap in the face of Lithuania and
>> the other two Baltic states. How about the Russian inflicted violation
>> of once free Lithuanians? Does the world ignore the brutal deportations of
>> of pregnant women, old people, innocent children, patients torm from
>> hospital beds? Speaking of black kettle... Violations - my foot.
>> They still are violating an independent country, violating the
>> territory of the Independent Republic of Lithuania. To hell with
>> them!!!
>> Aurelia

I think this indignation is real, comes from very real circumstances,
and that continued "Russian imperialist" attitudes about the Baltic
states do not help solve the problem, nor are they realistic. Yes,
the Baltics states WERE part of the old empire, and of the successive
Soviet empire that followed. By a fait accompli that we could argue
for months should or should not have occurred, the Soviet Union died
as an entity, and its death was recognized as so by the last leader
of the USSR, and his "successor," the first ruler of "modern Russia,"
Gorbachev and Yeltsin.

One of the products of that dissolution was the declaring of
sovereignty of most, if not all, of the former "republics" that had
formerly constituted the USSR, including the three Baltic states. My
small "upstairs dictiionary" defines sovereignty thusly: "Complete
independence and self-government." The presence of large numbers of
Russian troops violates and abrogates "complete independence," and
you actually wonder as to why Balts might "hate" Russians?

I do not think that the Baltic states have clean hands on the matter
of their Russian, Ukrainian and Polish minorities, but I think the
Russian hands are filthy in the equivocating over removal of forces
from Baltic soil. There is need for Russian troops inside Russia, and
the Russian government ought to find the monies to get those men home
- both to meet internal security needs, such as they are, and to
alleviate a growing problem that will only result in violence, I
fear, if they stay.

Otherwise, their continued presence says to this observer, many other
international observers, and to the Balts, that Russia IS pursuing an
imperialist course, has no intention of letting the Baltic states go
free, and eventually may have to fight to keep them, hence the
ongoing presence of the soldiers. THis is many times more dangerous
than the admittedly vile treatment of the Russians in the Baltic
states by the respective governments of those states- who I believe
are causing still another problem that could be alleviated fairly
easily, but probably won't be. The past impinges on the present,
however sad that may be, and those who forget the past usually have
that past come back to haunt them. VMS