HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Men Not Getting It (was Re: Twice Fucked)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 01:05:19 GMT


In article <1992Nov16.000634.25117@netcom.com>
solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M.  Solovay) writes:

>In article <1992Nov15.160349.4486@macc.wisc.edu>
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>> How, really, can anyone not "get it?"

>Beats me. I got it last night. 'Course, I was dressed up real
>pretty...

>Ummm... are we talking about the same thing?

Nope, Melinda and I were agreeing about something else, and

>"We know that Solovay is a misogynist and an idiot..."
>                --Melinda Shore

... you show why we should agree here too.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: ARchtypes and visibility
Date: 24 Nov 92 05:36:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov24.053629.24190
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <2b10ced3@ThreeL.co.uk> jf@threel.co.uk (John Fisher) writes:
>But I really like to see a classic bear, big, tall, broad, bearded
>and hairy.  There's something, I don't know, heroic about him.

You mean, like Brian Blessed leading on the charging wingmen in Flash
Gordon? Is there a more perfect bear in the mainstream media?
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                                        All things are true
From: ai888@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Flesher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What Gay Sex (was Re: How Many Homosexuals?)
Date: 16 Nov 1992 15:03:32 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ai888@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Flesher)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu



rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden) writes:

>  In article <1e5s9hINN2kl@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ai888@cleveland.Freenet.Ed
>  (Thomas Flesher) writes:
>  
>     autochthonous impulses and mental and/or emotional constructs, which,
>     pending specifics, is mumbo-jumbo.
>  
>  autochthonous?  Say what?

>  I gotta turn in my Intellectual Elite membership card...


I knew this would happen. _I_ didn't say it; _Jess_ did. 
So ungainly a phrase as "autochthonous impulses" could 
never have dropped from my honeyed lips. By the way, to 
judge by the lone example of the concept that was eventually 
provided by Jess at my prodding, the phrase simply 
means "whims". (How many bytes did you waste there, 
Jess?)


-----

Tom Flesher  (internet: ai888@cleveland.freenet.edu)

>>> Bigotry is merely cowardice in the face of complexity. <<<
From: sunderl@obvius.stl.dec.com (Mike Sunderland)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Fundamentalists and the clitoris
Date: 17 Nov 92 05:25:45 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

quoted stuff deleted ....

>Oh, we don't have a lock on Puritanism, and I believe
>Australia has at least the normal amount of sexism -- more
>than that, according to the few data points I know about.

Australia certainly has its share of sexism - it's built into the system.
Puritanism == sexism??? Maybe you just meant that the 2 go together? Maybe
you don't understand puratanism. I think the most usefull sex guide I ever
read was a book called "The Puritan Sex Manual" - can't remember the author.
It was great because it had lots of good stuff to say about relationships.


>>If you want to be stereo-typed and caricatured then go right ahead and keep
>>on doing what your doing now, because it makes you sound like a raving bloody
>>loony.  

>While your remark, presumably, is free of stereotypes and
>couldn't possibly be the result of raving or looniness, one
>gathers.  Was that it?

Just trying to stimulate enough discussion to get some answers.

>>If you want to foster some understanding and honesty, then be ready
>>to listen and be listened to.

>Knowing how to read satire might help a bit, too.

Oh! You mean you thought I really meant the bit where I said 'Let's saddamise
them all' ? ;-)

>>And BTW, isn't there a lot more to life than
>>seeking pleasurable experiences?

>Under what I would call the most useful definition of
>pleasure, the answer to that would be no, seeking
>pleasurable experience would be *all* of life.

So what is your definition of pleasure? And does "useful" == "true"?

>-- 
>Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
>Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
>Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
><>  <>  <> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <>  <>  <>

Fair enough! Though discrimination can be made to mean what ever you want it
to mean.


--

Mike Sunderland			sunderland@obvius.stl.dec.com
Customer Support Centre
Digital Equipment Corporation (Australia) Pty Ltd
Sydney Australia
From: exukev@exu.ericsson.se (Kevin Autrey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: New column adds a gay perspective
Date: 20 Nov 92 21:35:38 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

In article <cornell.722237190@vivaldi> cornell@syl.dl.nec.com writes:
>aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
>>
>>In a previous article, sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu (Sandy F. Smith, Jr.) wrote:
>>>Where will this trend pop up next?  _The Miami Herald_?  _The Wichita Eagle_?
>Dallas Morning News?      hahahhaha...that'd be the day!

*Maybe* that day won't be too far in the future - did you see a week
or so ago when the DMN Editorial Board wrote a piece in favor of Gays
in the Military?  I almost fell over.

Also, I heard that they now have four reporters (one in Austin, one in
Dallas, one in FW, and one in Washington(?))  covering gay/lesbian
concerns - FULL time.

Also - did you notice that they had *ZERO* pictures of drag queens in
their coverage of the Alan Ross Freedom Parade (the Dallas version of
The Gay Pride Parade - only held during September)

<Illusions of Granduer Mode ON>

Maybe that letter I wrote to them last year (after they published two
of the SAME picture of the SAME drag queen at the parade) actually
worked.

<Illusions of Granduer Mode OFF>

Kevin

________ _________________________________________________________________
\      /                                       | Ericsson Network Systems
 \  Kevin Autrey                               | P.O. Box 833875 - MS L-04
  \  /            wk: exukev@exu.ericsson.se   | Richardson, TX 75083-3875
   \/             hm: kevin@batpc.lonestar.org | Phone: (214) 997-6865
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: Rowley Redux
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:42:32 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <1992Nov18.032407.28493@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu
(Jess Anderson) wrote:

> I know it's bragging, but I thought the Yahweh cult crack
> was hilarious

Why Jezeboo... Laughing at your own jokes.  Kind of makes shaving
dangerous, now, doesn't it?

*X*
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: fogarty@sir-c.jpl.nasa.gov (Tim Fogarty)
Subject: Re: Military info needed
Organization: JPL, Spaceborne Imaging Radar Software Group
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 22:53:14 GMT


In article <1992Nov17.220806.12387@microsoft.com>, fritzs@microsoft.com (Fritz Sands) writes:
>
|>In article <43@bbx.basis.com> scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker) writes:
|>| 
|>| A while back, Barbara Walters interviewed "Stormin'" Normin about
|>| overturning the ban.  He was against it because it would cause
|>| "morale" problems.  In other words, the straight boyz wouldn't get
|>| along with 'em.  Some gay-positive heterosexuals watching with
|>| me started to (reluctantly) buy into that - until I reminded them that
|>| was the "official" reason for not allowing blacks to serve with whites 
|>| several decades ago (the white boyz wouldn't get along with 'em).
|>
|>So, would the military instead like to form all-gay units, just as the
|>pre-Truman military had all-black units?
|>
|>The Sacred Band of Thebes gets reborn!
|>

and where is my local recruitment office ?

"SIR, YES SIR"

--
Tim Fogarty
Sys Man and Sys Admin for the EGSE in the POCC at JSC for SRL-1, STS-59  *
FOGARTY@SIR-C.JPL.NASA.GOV

* NASA speak...write for translation
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Subject: Re: Men Not Getting It
Followup-To: soc.motss
Summary: various routes
Organization: outil, stanford, osu, lsa,...
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 17:50:29 GMT

the classic route for straight guys to get it is having a daughter.
it doesn't work for everybody, but apparently it goes a long way
for some.

for a few, what does it is having a woman partner they think of
as their best friend.  you identify a lot with your closest friends,
so it's something of a shock to discover that they are besieged
in ways you aren't.  it's just not fair, these guys say.  and
then maybe the light goes on.

arnold (who's been on both these trails)


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: Sucking on Keanu Reeves
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:49:10 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <michaelh.722078734@Xenon.Stanford.EDU>,
michaelh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Mike Hennahane) wrote:

> same time....  oh well, i don't live near the muffin any longer
> anyway...

Ohhh...  <hiss> <snarl> <growl>  The Muffin is *mine*! Mine!  Mine!
Mine!  *I* saw him first.  So you just be right thankful like you
don't live nearbys - or I'd have to do something sinister and evil
and even against the law...

*X*
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi,alt.homosexual
From: mxc1059@usl.edu (Carroll Matthew)
Subject: Re: Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual Relatives?
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 05:29:02 GMT

In article <92328.053515U60145@uicvm.uic.edu> <U60145@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>     I was wondering, how many of you have relatives that are also
>gay/lesbian/bi?  I myself am bisexual and have an aunt that is lesbian,
>and one of my good friends who is gay has a gay uncle.  I seem to meet
>alot of people with this same situation.  It just seems to me to bring
>the conclusion of genetic choice, not personal choice.
>

Well my mother is a lesbian and I'm bi


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Colorado Reply
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 04:30:16 GMT

rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo) writes:


>Received this handwritten note from John O. Gilbert, President & General
>Manager of KOAA-TV in Colorado Springs in response to my letter of dismay 
>and outrage at CO-2. Now if the President had time to send me a 
>hand-written note this means he isn't getting as much mail as he 
>should from us.  Time for someone from Colorado to repost those
>addresses!  

Still have a copy of both letters? I think a few good faxings to
queer press would be heaps good idea...

>Emily (who deeply resents the slur on her recently adopted borough)

This guy sounds like some freshman on Usenet. Bleah.

--
John Dorrance        * Sexyfunky Motherfuckerdiva *   thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

		I bet if you threw that ass into the air
			It'd turn into sunshine!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: robertl@luciano.Stanford.EDU (Robert Lodenkamper)
Subject: Re: ""Gay rights group files complaint""
Organization: Stanford University
	<RHAYDEN.92Nov19205017@hqsun2.oracle.com>
Date: 19 Nov 92 23:42:27

In article <RHAYDEN.92Nov19205017@hqsun2.oracle.com>
rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden) writes: 

   In article <38954@hoptoad.uucp> laura@hoptoad.uucp (Laura Creighton) writes:

      Thought experiement.  Assume that one has to choose to  be queer.
      No genetic predisposition, no nothing.  People just point blank
      choose to be queer.

      What's so wrong with that?
      (end thought experiment)

   Nothing, in my opinion.  But the fact that it isn't a choice seems
   to be a persuasive argument that makes people think a little deeper
   about the subject.

I suppose I should be happy about anything that might get people to
think about the issues, but "I can't help the way I am, so please
accept me" is *still* a whine.

   Note that the Catholic church finally recognizes the lack of
   choice, and therefore is forced to take a (somewhat) more liberal
   position on gays.

Forced?  Dream on.  The RCC has been contructing post facto
rationalizations for their dogma for many centuries.  They are
exceedingly good at it.

Also, I believe the RCC has never held that orientation is a matter of
choice (or, in fact, asserted a position one way or the other).  It is
motss sex that has always been considered sinful by the RCC.

- Bob
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: gandalf@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu (Thomas M Farrell)
Subject: Re: Cheese-Louise
Organization: College of Computer Science, Northeastern University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:06:08 GMT

In article <18NOV92.18195519@enh.nist.gov> aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:


   though.  Most just drink it, er, straight.  A "leaf" of aloe, a
   couple of pounds worth (how do they grow it so big?)  goes for
   about $1 in most supermarkets.  I get mine fresh from the garden.

It makes a nice houseplant. Just put it near a window and water regularly.
I can't imagine it in OJ, but it's good for sunburn. Why am I talking about
this?

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: The het woman in gay male fiction
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 04:10:36 GMT

There's another homosexual/heterosexual woman/man pairing in
literature--the lesbian friend of the het detective.  I've found at
least two such in "hard-boiled" murder mysteries (certainly not the
least stereotype-containing books in the world).  

I've always assumed that it's the only way the author can possibly
imagine a non-sexual relationship between a woman and a man.  After
all, wouldn't a "real" woman be totally unable to resist the
all-conquering "real-man" detective and wouldn't the "real-man"
detective be totally unable to resist her?  

Perhaps both cases display the limitations of the author's imaginations.

Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "A MiG at your six is better than no MiG at all."  Unknown US fighter pilot
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Re: Fundamentalists and the clitoris
Organization: Smiley Abolition Front
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:28:06 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.183813.19959@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> gsmith@clio.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Gene W. Smith) writes:
>In article <9NOV92.11344298@enh.nist.gov> aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
>
>>In sexual-education, the clitoris does not exist.  It cannot be shown,
>>and it cannot be mentioned.
>
>When I was in high school, I heard a lot of the usual boasting from
>boys who "made out" last night.  One day we were dissecting a fetal
>pig, and we got to the clitoris.  I was astonished to discover that my
>lab partner did not know what the clitoris was or did, and ever after
>listened to all that talk with a lot more scepticism.

The irony is that the clitoris is a wonderful example of a subtle
evolutionary principle. As Stephen Jay Gould notes (in "Male
Nipples and Clitoral Ripples", _Bully_for_Brontosaurus_), the
clitoris is an evolutionary accident; it is a non-functional
counterpart of a functional male organ, the penis. It is very
much like male nipples in this respect; again, nipples are
functional on women, and men have them because of evolutionary
inertia.

It turns out that both of these organs are Good Things to have,
since they're fun to play with... but this was not a factor in
their evolution. Females of other specieas can have orgasms from
clitoral stimulation, yet their natural sexual positions almost
never produce this. (Must have been fun for the scientists to
determine this...) In this sense, female orgasm is also an
evolutionary accident, though a fortuitous one. I hasten to say
that evolution is not a moral arbiter. There is reason to believe
that language is also an evolutionary accident, but I'm glad we
have it.

Of course, since fundamentalists are often down on evolution,
this may not be enough to get the clit back into the classroom.

-- 
Andrew Michael Solovay    

"We know that Solovay is a misogynist and an idiot..."
                --Melinda Shore
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me about this TV show?
Date: 17 Nov 92 22:30:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov17.223055.15410
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <74376@apple.apple.COM> richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel) writes:
>I volunteer to both cut your hair and shave you.  In fact, not only will
>I bring my clippers, but both my WSB CDs as well.  That twisted "Thanksgiving
>Day" prose can boom in the background as the 60Hz clippers drone...

Goodness, you do know how to give me goosebumps. Will you give me all
of Dead City Radio? 

   Life in all its rich variety, do not falter
   Let your love enter unto him and penetrate him with a divine lubricant
   Makes KY and lanolin feel like sandpaper.

                __
nelson@reed.edu \/   Delicious & Nutritious breakfast cereals shot from guns!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Re: The Hate Gene (was Re: Social Democracy)
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 01:00:03 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.225857.7844@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>-- 
>[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
>[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
>[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
>[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]

OK. Now I know what are not family values.
Can Mr. Anderson tell which are the ones that are  family values?

AAP


Xref: sparky soc.motss:48813 soc.bi:15434 alt.politics.homosexuality:7511
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 23:34:21 GMT

In article <CORWIN+.92Nov18133237@MORPHEUS.CIMDS.RI.CMU.EDU>, corwin+@CMU.EDU (Scott Safier) writes:
> In article <1e1bpdINNjbn@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> 
>    Besides, 
>    no one has ever been cast in a plum role because he or she 
>    has been able to wave a diploma in the casting director's 
>    face.
> 
> In the issue of Theater Week which contained the article on CMU, CMU
> had an ad trying to attract perspective students.  Their slogan was,
> "It's all in a name." 

Which means that CMU wants its prospective students to believe that a
diploma from CMU will help them get roles. Maybe also that they want
casting directors to believe that. Maybe they believe it themselves.
None of these make it true. (I have no knowledge of whether it's true
or not.)

This is beside the central point, if there still is one.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax)
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 16:22:01 GMT


Come on, dears, let's not scratch each others eyes out over this guy.
Some of us think he's a hunk, others think he's white trash.  Some of
us like his music, others do not.  Personally, that's what I thought
part of the fascination with music was - each person determining what
they liked and didn't like.  Same goes for what you find sexually
attractive.

One thing I think needs clarifying:  was MM ever actually a member
of NKOB?  I was under the impression he was not.
Xref: sparky soc.motss:48384 talk.politics.misc:60823 ca.politics:9681
From: walsh@optilink.COM (Mark Walsh)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
Subject: Re: no obvious logic error [Re: How Many Homosexuals?]
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:54:42 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

From article <BxuBE0.JDt@hico2.westmark.com>, by kak@hico2.westmark.com (Kris A. Kugel):
> : From article <1992Nov9.004823.3211@u.washington.edu>, by tzs@carson.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith):
> : > One approach to estimating this would be to find some way to calculate it
> : > based on other estimated factors.  For example, 9% of men over 65 are
> : > either single or divorced.  Assuming that by the time one reaches 65,
> : > even gay men who got married before they realized that they were gay
> : > are likely to be divorced, this would put an upper limit of 9% on
> : > the percentage of gay people over 65.

If you sample only those who are >65 years old, and all that you
can derive from the data are conclusions about those who are >65.

> so no, this particular arguement doesn't deal well
> with the population under 65, and therefore with the population
> as a whole.

My point exactly, and my reasoning for not including any of my
previous text in this posting.

> I also think that the process of evaluating it would make sure
> that we are using a common terminology in discussing this.
> (for example if instead we allow the definination of "gay" 
>  to include those who remain married after age 65, and ignore
>  the situation of "married but not sexually active within the marriage",
>  then what will differentiate gay from bisexual?)

Yes, this is very problematic.  Tim's logic assumes that
there are no gay people who are married.  And what about
bisexuals?  Why do we keep forgetting about them?  And a
cap of 9% isn't terribly useful anyway since virtually
all credible sources put the percentage of gays below that.
If every gay person were to expire by age 60, you would
still have a significant number of single folks >65.
Also ignored is that fact that the population of men
over 65 is changing so rapidly these days that nobody
can seem to put a finger on it.

I think that some posters here could use a statistics
class or two...
-- 
Mark Walsh (walsh@optilink) -- UUCP: uunet!optilink!walsh
AOL: BigCookie -- Amateur Radio: KM6XU@WX3K -- USCF: L10861
"What, me worry?" - William M. Gaines, 1922-1992
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ins and Outs
Date: 17 Nov 92 16:23:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Nov17.162329.8970
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Nov17.121443.15138@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>>[of George Stehanophoulos]
>>I'd think he was cuter if he had followed his father's career.
>Oh, I feel so naked without my clues!  What career was that?

Think ethnicity, and think of the recent hirsuit controversy thread.
What would be the job whose tradition demands such an attribute?

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss