From: pipkinsj@cpqhou.compaq.com (Jeff Pipkins )
Subject: Headlock escapes!
Reply-To: pipkinsj@cpqhou.UUCP (Jeff Pipkins )
Organization: Compaq Computer Corporation
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 18:49:58 GMT


This has been a fun thread!  I got email from several folks with
suggestions (I got their permission for clips in this post).  Also
did some more experimentation.  The door on this subject is far
from closed, so if you have suggestions, even things you haven't
tried yet, fling 'em out here and let's play with 'em...

I wrote:
>fsmar@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
>>        5. Reach up and grab his face.  The pinky in the eye comes to mind.
>>        And pull down.
>
>On further experimentation with someone else's idea of putting a finger
>under the nose (sorry, attributution lost in the chevrons), I practiced
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That was John Simutis <simutis@ingres.com>

>reaching under the chin and tilting the head back, while lifting up
>on the underside of the right knee.  This worked really great, and was
>really efficient and decisive -- as long as the opponent was standing
>straight up.
>
>Then some wiseguy did the headlock while being hunched over, which is
>admittedly a rather natural thing to do if pounding the captured head
>with the other hand.  In this position, grabbing above the shoulders
>wasn't possible.  But the other method I described initially will work
>whether the opponent is standing straight or hunched over, even if
>the opponent is much larger.


Well, I'm going to have to take most of that back.  This is only a
problem if the holder is *MUCH* taller than you, *AND* hunching over.
I jumped a little on that conclusion.  On a second look, my daughter,
who's about armpit-high on me, can reach my chin even if I'm hunching.
She couldn't reach my neighbor's chin, but he's about a head taller
than me.  So, all those suggestions about reaching up to the face
deserve more consideration than I first gave them.


simutis@ingres.com (John Simutis) writes:
>
>|> reaching under the chin and tilting the head back, while lifting up
>|> on the underside of the right knee.  This worked really great, and was
>|> really efficient and decisive -- as long as the opponent was standing
>|> straight up.
>
>        easier to tilt'em back while straight, 'tis true; also consider
>        a deep forward stance with your back/closer leg, very carefully
>        guiding his/her spine/kidney across that knee (after you get him/her
>        falling).

We found this to work really well, as long as we positioned the left
foot first.  If we moved the right foot first, then we were too unstable
during the interim.  (I assume you meant facing to the left instead of
forward, so that your left leg is behind their back.)  Also, the stance
really needs to be low and strong, like the ones the Shotokan guys
were complaining about in another thread... ;^)  Well, JMHO...


>|> Then some wiseguy did the headlock while being hunched over, which is
>|> [snip]
>
>         Two things I can thing of: (1) do it quick, before s/he bends over -
>         then you can still reach - probably won't get the holder to
>         co-operate though;

Yeah, that's what happened...

>         (2) make them _want_ to stand up straight.  Hasn't been a
>         problem for me, but I guess I have long arms for my height (just
>         ask my wife ;-) ).  The way to accomplish (2) is the genital grab
>         and pull forward and up - for practice, use the skin on the inside
>         of the closer thigh and grab it like it's fabric, then _twist_ - most
>         of the time that'll get him/her to lift that leg for you; _then_ put
>         in the nose/chin/throat pressure to continue the rotation around
>         the center of mass.

I like the leg twist idea.  We found the nose/throat pressure made them
want to stand up.  Chin pressure could be resisted, but add a quick right to
the groin, and focus would be a good ways from the chin for a while... ;^)


Most of the discussion so far has basically assumed a stationary or
near-stationary opponent.  When the conversation got around to escaping
while in motion, things got *really* interesting...


Jonathan Byrd (jon@apollo.med.utah.edu) comments:

>>another possibility is to ram your left knee into the back of your
>>enemy's right knee as you sit down.  your enemy will tend to fall
>>backward as a result, and may let go.  remember that this will leave
>>you both on the ground, and you must face a different kind of fight
>>than you may be used to.


This is an intriguing suggestion!  Unfortunately, I haven't yet learned
how to make use of it.  It takes a little practice to gain the precision
necessary to hit the leg at the right time.  This was more difficult
with speed, but was doable.  The problem was that instead of falling
backward, the opponent would fall forward, carrying my head with them
to the mat.  A front breakfall with both arms in front of me was
effective in breaking the fall, but after it was over, I found that I
was not in a favorable position.


gahooten@yamato.arc.nasa.gov (Greg Hooten -- RCS) writes:
>
>Some more things to think about.  When someone gets you in this hold and
>is not going to deck you with punches, what is he going to do.  One
>is grind your head, the other is to bulldog you.  The primary consideration
>for me is to set a wide stance.  Make your step, and have the left hammer
>fist go to the kidney and the right go to the groin around front of the body.
>In Form, it looks like you are stepping forward with your right leg and both 
>hammerfists are slamming together.  (The head should turn and face the opponent
>to free up the throat.)  The step can be a horse stance, but if the preson is 
>moving, then you must pin there mobility down.  To do this, use the left knee
>to buckle there right leg.  Not to the ground, but your knee to the calf and 
>then simply bend your knee down ( your heel coming up off the ground, but toes
>stay down. )  This give you width of stance, but also a press against the leg.  
>With both there and your weight involved with one foot, the motion stops.  You
>can buckle them all the way down, but you are better off getting out of the hold.
>Also notice that if being bulldogged, it is more difficult to hit the groin with
>the left hand.  As he turns, your body follows, and often you will miss the groin
>as your body catches up.

I had to go ask what "bulldogging" is.  A couple of Texans here tell me that
this technique comes from the rodeo (used on cattle, not people).  The name
may have come from the TV wrasslers, I don't know.  Basically, you grab the
poor victim in a headlock and start running with them, then you jump up and
land with all your weight on them.  If you let go, they only get their face
smashed into the ground, but if you hold on, they get a broken neck.  (The
effect on cattle is not that severe, of course...)

This changes the whole problem!  Not only do you have to worry about being
in motion, but more importantly, your time to escape is LIMITED!

We tried outrunning the holder and circling in front, using his right
arm/shoulder to throw him.  This worked, but couldn't seem to do it
without pulling the holder down on top of me full force!  Back to drawing
board...

We finally found a technique that worked well and was practical and
effective, not to mention being fun to practice ;^)  Just try not to
laugh while you read this...

As you're running forward, you must act either before or at the same
time that the would-be bulldogger makes his move.  You grab the (right)
arm that's around your neck, both hands on the forearm, grabbing from
underneath, and hold his arm *securely* to your chest.  Then, when
his right leg is forward, you act like you're swinging down from a tree
limb.  You throw your legs out in front of you, making him support
all your weight and pushing his shoulder back with your head/neck.
Very important to keep his arm pinned to your chest.  When you land,
his shoulder will cushion your head from the blow -- you land right
on him.  Now, to get out of the lock and to pin him, you maintain your
grip on the arm, and roll over (to your right if it's his right arm)
and his arm will unfold easily.  Now slide your right hand toward his
elbow, and then crank that elbow up while keeping his wrist low with
the other hand (the pin is like shiho-nage to the opponent).

The swinging part feels a lot like when you just jump up and grab a
bar with a double underhanded grip, and swing out.  This can be really
funny, but it works well!


stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark) joshes with us:
>
>>In article jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd) writes:
>>|> you can also reach around
>>|> with your left hand and insert a finger between his cheek and gums,
>
>If you get headlocked often, you could carry a hot pepper for the occasion.

Yeah, and you could keep your neck greased, too.

>You reach up, and insert it into their mouth as above, then, when they bite
>to get to your fingers, they chow down on the pepper and run off to get some
>beer to wash it down with.  Of course, you should be gone when they return,
>unless you have prepared an appropriate dessert.  
>
>This may not work too well if your opponent likes hot peppers without beer,
>but then no escape is foolproof, eh ?

Down here in Texas, all you have to do is tell them that you have a hot
pepper (the hottest in all TEXAS!) and that you'll give it to them if
they let you go...  ("Deal!  Hey, you got a 'cold one' to go with it?")


For the sake of being humorous *and* poignant, I quote Jon out of context:
>
>   >[...]  do not insert your fingers between your enemy's teeth.
>           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   Say, Jonathan, besides being most excellent advice, this quote strikes
>   me as good .sig material.  Do you mind terribly if I quote you on that?
>
>of all the things i have written and posted to this newsgroup, i never
>would have dreamed that this would be the one that got quoted.
>
>   And it's not just for martial arts -- that's good advice for everyday life.
>
>oh, now you're just teasing me.  but i must admit that it sounds a
>great deal better when taken out of context than it did when i
>originally wrote it.

Definitely so.  Just for the record, Jon has written some rather quoteworthy
things in the past -- I just thought this one was pretty funny, especially
when pryed from its original context.  Check the new sig at the bottom,
where Jon has now achieved sig immortality... ;^)


Jeff=Pipkins%FW=Util%Sys=Hou@bangate.compaq.com
------------------------------------------------------------------- [sig #70]
                                 | "Do not insert your fingers between your
I am NOT authorized to represent | enemy's teeth." --Jonathan Byrd
my employer.  Use my opinions    | "Of all the things I have written and posted
ONLY at your OWN risk.           | to this newsgroup, I never would have
                                 | dreamed that this would be the one that got
                                 | quoted." --Jonathan Byrd

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts