From: max@hilbert.cyprs.rain.com (Max Webb)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Question for fundamentalists
Date: 2 Oct 92 04:14:18 GMT
Organization: Cypress Semiconductor Northwest, Beaverton Oregon

In article <Sep.27.22.42.01.1992.2219@athos.rutgers.edu> rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
>This is my submission that I mentioned would follow - it gives
>a summary of three chapters of Dr. D. James Kennedy's book
>_Why I Believe_.  
>...
>Summary of Dr. D. James Kennedy's book "Why I Believe"
>
>[1]Why I Believe the Bible:
>The Bible gives many predictive prophecies.  It tells us of 
>a coming Prophet into whom's mouth God will put his words.  
>It tells not to fear anyone who gives a prophesy that is 
>false...

Keep that in mind...

>Examples: The cities of Tyre and Sidon, two great cities on 
>the Mediterranean Sea.  Exekiel prophesied that Tyre would 
>be destroyed and never be rebuilt nor inhabited.  Sidon was 
>to be brought down, but continue to be inhabited.  Sidon was 
>attacked and many killed, but still exists to this day.
>
>Tyre on the other hand was at its height at the time of the 
>prophecy.  It was to be destroyed, made like a rock, have 
>its building stones thrown into the sea, and be built no 
>more.  Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon fought against the city for 
>thirteen years and took it.  Many former inhabitants fled 
>for an island and made a new city of Tyre.  Two hundred and 
>fifty years later the city walls still stood, but Alexander 
>the Great came and took the old buildings and dumped them 
>into the sea to build a bridge to the new Tyre, in order to 
>take it.  He did - the old city was stripped.  Today the old 
>Tyre is like a rock and a place to spread fishing nets to 
>dry.
>--
>rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu
>Atlanta, GA

*sigh*. D. Kennedy is the guy that denied ever having believed
in the Paluxy man-tracks (that supposedly coexist with dinosaur
tracks) until confronted with video tape. He is no more honest
here; this claim was trashed when it was quoted from McDowell.

Dave Butler writes:
" Tyre is now Sur, a coastal Lebanese city of about 10,000 to 15,000 people.
Comment:
Josh is blatantly wrong, and it only took a couple minutes to verify.  His
scholarship is not merely shoddy, but non-existent."
Robert Low writes:
"On the fulfillment of OT prophecy, specifically the fall of Tyre:
(Ezekiel 26ff)
the description given of the fullfilment of this prophecy
could only be held to by somebody who already was committed to
believing that. The prophecy clearly implies that Tyre
would fall to the forces of Nebuchadrezzar, and that Tyre
would be completely destroyed, never again to be inhabited.
Of course, Tyre survived the siege and was not taken until
Alexander built a mole out to the island.  It is hard to 
justify this as a fullfilment of the prophecy, since the
King of Tyre is being told that he will die in the sacking
of Tyre, and he didn't live that long. However, even granting
this, Tyre is still inhabited to this day: McDowell attempts
to extract himself from this by maintaining that what is
"really meant" is that Tyre will never again be prosperous.
Unfortunately for him, Tyre currently has a thriving
tourist industry, and a fishing industry."

James J. Lippard writes:
"According to Ezekiel 26:3-14, 26:21, and 27:36, Nebuchadnezzar would capture
Tyre and destroy it forever, never even to be found again.  Ezekiel 26:12
predicted that he would seize its riches.  In fact, Nebuchadnezzar's siege
lasted 13 years, but he never captured the city, only its outworks on the
mainland.  Ezekiel 29:18 admits that he never captured its riches.  Tyre was
destroyed 240 years later by Alexander the Great, and it was subsequently
rebuilt (and referenced in the New Testament in Matthew 11:21-22, Mark 3:8,
Luke 10:13-14, Acts 12:20 and 21:3,7).  It was destroyed again in 1291 C.E.,
again rebuilt, and continues to exist today.
   Josh McDowell, amazingly enough, cites this as a prime example of a
prophecy that has been fulfilled [McDowell 72, pp. 285-291].  He rationalizes
away the rebuilding of Tyre by making a distinction between "Old Tyre" and
"Tyre", an arbitrary distinction made only by Christian apologists.  He
removes the problem of the prediction that Tyre would "never be found again"
by claiming that Ezekiel 26:21 really means only that Tyre would never regain
its former power."

For lack of time, I will not address the other supposed prophecies.
If you have a favorite, point it out, and I will address it.

Regards,
	Max G. Webb