From: sims@sauron.msfc.nasa.gov (Herb Sims)
Subject: Re: Logging time for the Instrument rating
Keywords: non-faq question
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: 26 Aug 92 12:25:03 GMT

smith@ur-guh.com (Russ Smith) writes:


>Their "special package deal" was 40 hours of IFR flight instruction in a 172
>for $2600 nonrefundably paid up front.

>Actually, not a bad price for 40 hours, but I asked myself "Do I -really- need
>40 hours of IFR flight instruction?" and "Do I -really- want to commit ~$3000 to a
>cause when it might not be necessary to achieve my goal?" and, if yes and
>yes are the answers, "How in the world do I justify both to myself and my SO
>such an up front cost!?" [and this in addition to East Coast's requirement that
>one ALREADY have logged 35 hours of post-PPSEL X-Country time].

I had the same response when I started my instrument training.  My first
response after I began the training is - I AM GLAD MY INSTRUCTOR IS HERE.  I
think you will feel the same way once you get into some rough weather :).
Another way to look at it is this.  With 40 hours of dual instruction you
will learn more about the IFR world than on your own.  Besides your instructor
has probably made a few mistakes - which he can pass along to you before you
possibly make the same one (and, hopefully not, something would go wrong).
I know it sounds like a lot of money but look at it this way, is your life
worth $2,000?

>The short answers, of course, are no, no, and no way.

>I've been told that one can overlap the required 50 hours X-Country with the
>40 hours Instrument flying and can save even more bucks by doing 25 of those
>IFR hours with a non-instructor safety pilot (semiFAQ). Furthermore, my reading of
>the FARs says that one can count -ALL- previous instrument instruction time
>toward the 15 hours left over needed to be done with an instructor. I have
>about 5.5 hours of hood work done as a student pilot earning my PPSEL; nothing
>I read disallows this time (indeed, some wording implies that it IS countable).

I REALLY think you are asking for trouble when you are looking to cut corners.
You are playing with your LIFE!!!  Is it worth that little to you?  If you
really want to get your ticket as fast as possible do what I am doing now.
What I am doing is similiar to the PIC company where they will 'force feed' you
your instrument ticket in ten days.  I fly every day for 1-2 hours and will
have completed my inst. ticket by mid-Sept.  That is what I would recommend.
Like I said before, have someone take you up in real IFR (not hood) and you'll
see what I mean about trying to cut corners......

>Foreground -- so what's the learned opinion on logged time requirements for the
>Instrument rating? Do I really need only a minimum of about 9 hours instrument
>instruction to meet all IFR instruction requirements? [this question does -not-
>ask if I need only a MAXIMUM of 9 hours...]. Is buying a package deal such as
>the above as bad an idea as I think it is? Can one count student training
>instrument time toward Instrument rating requirements as well?

Yes, you will meet the FAR's but could you pass the check ride. that's the big
question.  I currently have over 20 hood/solid IFR hours from the time
that I started the IFR training with my instructor.  And even under the 
accelerated course I am still 2-3 hours away from going cross country.  Believe
when I say it, just bite the bullet and pay the money and LEARN right!!!!

>Any and all responses and/or enlightenments appreciated.

>Russ <Smith@ur-guh.com>

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