HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing

>Stopped by Windsurf Warehouse last weekend and saw a new
>fin called the "Ninja"(Don't know the mfg.).  It has a
>carbon inner mat covered with G10 and was about an inch
>wide at the tip.  Salesperson said it would retail for
>about $65 (sounds cheap for a new hi-tech blade).  Anybody
>else see or hear about this fin?
>-- 
>Dave Hedges        hedges@vitsemi.COM  Standard Disclaimer   Ninja 600R
----------
Hi Dave,
I saw the Ninja fin at the WS Show.  It looks like it is designed to
not break as easily as the race blades since it is thicker at the
base.  It should have good speed and pointing ability at a reasonable
price since cheaper materials can be used due to the thicker base.

My experience with fins is:
-EVERY inch counts.  I've been sailing Race Fin Co. Blades (now on
sale at ASD for $69 - was $119 - Tell Clint I sent ya).  These are
thinner than the $140-$200 blades, some have broken, but I haven't
had one break yet.  ANyway, I put a 14.5" on my 8'11" ASD CS epoxy
with a 6.1 sail and it would spin out alot when I pointed.  After a few
days sailing it, I found that I could control it better.  It would
spinout still quit a bit.  I later got a 15.5" RFCo blade and I could
point much higher without spinning out with the 6.1 and the 14.5 was
perfect for my 5.6.  On the advice of Bob Miller (Shapper and Co owner
of ASD) I put the 15.5 on my 9'3" CS with a 6.7 and it worked just as
well as it does with a 6.1 on my 8'11".  (I also tried the 15.5/6.7/8'11"
combination and ended up walking back to my van - the sail was too big
for the board).  On a hard flood, I use the following:

sail  board   fin
5.1 - 8'11" - 14.5" blade if flat, 12" pointer if choppy
5.6 - 8'11" - 14.5"
6.1 - 8'11" - 15.5"
6.7 - 9'3"  - 15.5"

If it is ebbing, I can drop either a sail and or a fin size since I
don't need to point upwind as high.

-I lent Walt (pumpkin van) my 15.5" fin and he compared it to his
15.5" (I think it was FinWorks) $140 fin.  The RF Co fin is thinner
through out which allows it to flex more (I was told that was to help 
maintain control/speed going around chop).  Walt said my fin might
be a bit faster, but more difficult to control before it spins out.
Walt sailed the fins with his 9'1" ASD and 6.2 sail.

For race boards, sails and blade fins, I'd recommend you talk to someone
within 10 lbs of your wt that sails the blades with the same board as you
and see what they like for their most common/often sailed sail.  You may
find you need another inch one way or the other so target for the middle
of your quiver with the first blade you invest in.

Kirk (who said this sport was cheap?) out
8'8" Challange Flex, 8'11" & 9'3" ASD epoxy, 9'9" Velocity & 11'6" Malibu 
Wt 216#, Ht. 6'0", Usually sail on SF Bay, Cailf.  (kirk@hpoclpb.sj.hp.com)
From: kirk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk Lindstrom)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: downhauler
Date: 25 Jan 93 21:09:01 GMT
Organization: Shredding the water of SF Bay, HP-OCD

>short@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Nancy Short) writes:
>
>> Hello! I've been thinking of buying the new "flip-n-easy"
>> advertised in Windsurf mag.  It is a mast extension with a
>> lever you use to downhaul the sail.  It is supposed to be
>> very easy to use.  Does anyone have one?  Do they work as
>> advertised?
>
>I've heard from a couple of the HP shred heads that they were
>breaking at the San Francisco show a couple of months ago (Kirk?
>KenP? isn't that right?).  But hey, we need a guinea pig to check
>them out.  Let us know how it works!
>
>Ken "Still Snowboarding" Brown
----------
I think it was Tom Albertz (took voluntary severence i.e. lots of bucks
to go windsurf) who said it.  I think they would be OK for most sailors
except those like myself or Matt Y. that break stuff easily due to size and/or
agressive sailing.  

Kirk out
8'8" Challange Flex, 8'11" & 9'3" ASD epoxy, 9'9" Velocity & 11'6" Malibu 
Wt 216#, Ht. 6'0", Usually sail on SF Bay, Cailf.  (kirk@hpocia.sj.hp.com)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: phansen@moose.uvm.edu (Paul Hansen/I *HATE* RAIN !!!!!)
Subject: Re: Weird Windsurfer/Hydrofoil Thing
Originator: phansen@moose.uvm.edu
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:24:01 GMT

From article <1993Jan25.144836.16027@newssun.med.miami.edu>, by
 dbrown@newssun.med.miami.edu (Daniel Brown):
> 
> When he started moving fast, the ENTIRE board would lift out of the
> water, sort of like a hydrofoil.  The board would clear the water
> by nearly a foot and a half (tail and all)!
> 

Cool! I want one :-)  Wonder how fast it can go?...and what it's like when
you jump with it!  Sounds like a worthy conversion for my unused BIC 110S!!


 
-- 
Paul Hansen = phansen@moose.uvm.edu           |\                ( )        
Academic Computing Services          _________|_\_________________________
University of Vermont                         -----             -_-_
Burlington, Vermont  USA             island dreamer            -- - -
From: Alexander Slingeland <davos@engin.umich.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Costa Rica ???????
Date: 26 Jan 1993 00:45:39 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: mezzmac158.engin.umich.edu
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
X-XXMessage-ID: <A789F50A6902809E@mezzmac158.engin.umich.edu>
X-XXDate: Mon, 25 Jan 93 18:50:34 GMT


Has anyone had any experience (good or bad) in Costa Rica. I heard from 
a non-board head that it didn't look very good, but I am probably going
there
in the beginning of March and would like to know if I should bother
brining any equipment (are rentals available?). 

Is the coast sailable (or any lakes) ?

How hard does it usually blow ?

Any info would be helpful (I remember seeing Costa Rica written up in one
of the
magazines, but don't have mine with me).

Alexander Slingeland
davos@engin.umich.edu
From: kirk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk Lindstrom)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:51:20 GMT
Subject: Re: PBA event
Organization: Shredding the water of SF Bay, HP-OCD
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing

>Sails
>=====
>Several protos around, the new ART will have an even floppier leech. The
>new North race sails have an unusual cut with a big loose leech area. Rumour 
>is that Neil Pryde will collapse the current Racing and Slalom series of
>sails into one series. Looks like loose leeches are here to stay. Tip from
>pros: some people have gone to extremes and are over downhauling,another
>tip is to ignore the recommended sail settings and experiment.
>
>Sukhdev Singh
>----------

Sounds like everyone is still chasing Sailworks.  Were any of their
racers there?

Kirk out

Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: hanu@jargon.whoi.edu (Hanumant Singh)
Subject: Baja Information
Organization: Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 19:20:42 GMT


I was wondering if anyone knew about wind conditions, water temperatures, 
accomodations, rentals around the Mulege and Loreto areas. I will be 
disembarking from a Research Vessel after doing some oceanographic work in 
the Guyamas Basin and was wondering if it was worth taking a few days off and 
getting a windsurfing fix.

I am an advanced intermediate. Sailed a lot over the last two years on the 
cape (cape cod). I can waterstart without any problems, do controlled chop 
hops, and can handle cape cod surf. Still have major problems with my jibes. 

Thanks.

							Hanu
							hanu@jargon.whoi.edu

'83 vintage 9'4" Windsurfer Rocket, 8'4" Mistral Ecastasy, 3.4 NP, 4.0 Simmer,
5.0 Twin Cam NP, 5.8 Simmer. Fiberspar and Dakine accessories. 
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: labenrsa@ICIL64.CILEA.IT
Subject: Mistral Shredder
Organization: CILEA - v R. Sanzio 4 - Segrate - ITALY
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:23:25 GMT
Reply-To: labenrsa@ICIL64.CILEA.IT

I am looking for an used Mistral Shredder (in good conditions). I'd buy it in
Italy (Milan).
My email is: COLECCHIA%LABEN@ICIL64.CILEA.IT
bye Stefano
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: ngs@nyquist.bellcore.com (Ned Stoffel 21374)
Subject: Re: Downhauling
Reply-To: ngs@bellcore.com
Organization: Network Technology Research Lab, Bellcore
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 18:24:06 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.152053.26886@newssun.med.miami.edu>, dbrown@newssun.med.miami.edu (Daniel Brown) writes:
|> 
|> I'm not sure I understood this entirely.  It seems, however, that
|> the torque you're putting on the base would rotate the sail.  Is the
|> clew-end of the boom preventing this, or is the top of the mast also
|> against something?
|> 
|> Dan

The weight of the mast helps counteract the torque somewhat. The rest
I can balance by pulling the downhaul a bit toward the point where
the clew is resting (rather than pulling straight down). If the boom
end is resting in sand it won't go anywhere. Even on asphalt, I don't
have any problems with the boom sliding away. 

Try it in a sheltered area if you are concerned about the sail
getting out of control. However, if you can't control your sail
while it's pointing straight downwind in the parking lot, 
heaven help you out on the water.

Ned
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: felixc@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (felix.cabral)
Subject: a most excellent day
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:06:33 GMT


Yesterday was a beautiful day on the NJ coast. The temps were in the
50 degree range all day. I was on my PC around 11am when my wife
said to me, "Its a pretty day, have you looked out the back?". Well,
I was up pretty early doing the laundry and noticed it was a nice day 
but no wind. This was about 9am.

It was supposed to get windy late afternoon due to the approaching cold
front. I expected the winds to kick in my early evening (too late to
sail). I decided to look out the window again after my wife said it sure
looked windy to her. Sure enough. The leafless trees were swaying. That
meant we had at least twenty knots to sway trees without leaves.

I jumped in my car and headed to sandy hook. When I got there, white
caps, white caps, white caps!! The ocean was kicking. The wind was
southerly which made it a perfect ocean day.  Only one other sailor
was there rigging a 4.5. I rigged my 4.8 in what seemed to be a 
rigging speed record :-)

We both jumped on the bay side to find powered up conditions in perfect
flat waters. I wanted to get on the waves on the oceanside so I took my
rig and walked "the walk" to the oceanside. Days don't get any better
than this. The waves were long and far between. I'd say 5-6 feet in
height. There was "glass" between the sets. Perfect conditions.

I sailed all day on my 4.8 and 8'6 board. I never expected to sail the 
ocean alone in midwinter. Safety first I always say. However, the weather 
was spring like. I could not refuse. I'm glad I didn't. I even more glad
my wife told me it was windy! I guess she knows me by now :-)


-- 
Felix Cabral         {felixc@mtgzfs3.att.com}      "Give me nukin winds,
AT&T Bell Labs       {  att!mtgzfs3!felixc  }       a rad board, rad waves,
Middletown,NJ        {     (908)957-5081    }       and a company sickday!"
From: jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: downhauler
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:51:23 GMT
Organization: Wyse Technologies San Jose, Ca

In article <4310568@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> kirk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk Lindstrom) writes:
>>short@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Nancy Short) writes:
>>
>>> Hello! I've been thinking of buying the new "flip-n-easy"
>>> advertised in Windsurf mag.  It is a mast extension with a

I think I'm going to buy the one which attaches to the base of your mast and
allows you to pull the downhaul with a big handle. I forget the name, but they
are solid metal, totally unbreakable and don't go out on the water with you.
Waddel were giving them away with the purchase of a new sail. Normally they
cost around $50.

I've only seen 'girls' using them so far, but hey I'm not very macho.

Jim Munro


Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: ngs@sailor.bellcore.com (Ned Stoffel 21374)
Subject: Re: Downhauling
Reply-To: ngs@bellcore.com
Organization: Network Technology Research Lab, Bellcore
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 11:01:26 GMT

In article <4310570@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, kirk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk Lindstrom) writes:
|> Ned, where do you put your foot for downhauling?  On my sails, I try to
|> have the foot (of the sail) almost touch the pulley and I use a pulley
|> that ends at the end of the mast base.  I don't see how you'd hold the
|> mast while pulling.
|> 

I also have a pulley that extends below the mast base slightly.
I like the foot to extend even with the mast base. I don't see
what this has to do with my downhauling method, though. 

I don't hold the mast at all while I am pulling - I just pull 
straight down on the downhaul with both hands. I suppose I must 
be adjusting the direction of the downward force to balance the 
boom on its clew end, but this come pretty naturally. Just try it. 

Once I have the downhaul tight, I usually put one hand
on the base of the mast and pinch the downhaul so it doesn't
loosen up. This allows me to feed the downhaul through the last
loop of the pulley system and cleat it off. If wind gusts are a 
problem, I tend to lay the sail down before doing the last loop.

If I hadn't come down with this cold on Friday night, I would have
been sailing with Felix over the weekend. (In fact I would also be
sleeping now (6am). I will check and see if I am omitting anything
important from my description as soon as I recover and get a 
chance to sail again.

Ned
From: andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: PHYSICS OF FINS
Date: 27 Jan 93 20:30:09 GMT
Organization: Brandeis University

In article <56130009@hpsgm2.sgp.hp.com> ohdav@hpsgm2.sgp.hp.com (David OH) writes:
>
>On the same theme, there must be some simulation software around that allows
>lift from foils to be modelled....I tested 12 fins over the last three months!
>Sheesh, wish there was an easier way........especially since the fins ranged
>from garbage (Mistral) to excellent.
>
>Sukhdev "i just wanna sail" Singh
>sukhdev@hpss2.sgp.hp.com

There's a lot of work in computational fluid dynamics (I'm not
familiar with it though) that should be able to predict stable flow in
a single media (air or water), even with turbulence.  At the interface
between air and water you have to include the effects of waves and
general surface turbulence to before an accurate prediction can be
made.  You're also looking for more than just lift and drag, you
really want to watch breakaway, interference from the board's bottom
shape, etc.  It adds up to a computation that is currently too complex
to fully compute.

RaceTech (?) fins were designed using predictions from a NASA profile
analysis program.  The predictions were solely for the fin in clean
flow.  The fins were moderately successful (they went upwind well),
but they didn't take the market by storm; True Ames and Tuttle were
still preferred.  I think they didn't handle well.  Has anybody used
these?

-andy
From: kennb@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Ken Berger)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Downhauling
Date: 22 Jan 93 16:42:03 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

In article <1993Jan22.132654.18553@walter.bellcore.com> ngs@bellcore.com writes:
>In fact, I ripped two large Pryde sails by over-tensioning
>the downhaul. I always set the sail up so it pivots on the
>clew.

Oops!

>Be sure to point the sail head downwind before you set it
>up on the clew. The reason it works is that the force you
>apply by pulling down on the downhaul causes a reactive force
>(remember your physics?) upward on the boom. This force
>helps bend the mast, reducing the force needed on the 
>downhaul line to do the job. This works best if there is a
>pulley at the bottom of your mast base which allows the

I don't think this would work in the parking area at Rufus on a 3.5
day (even if you were parked in the pit)!





KB
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: 6623630@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: CABARETE VACATIONS
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 13:47:03 PST

Any info on this destination resort for windsurfing would be great!
When is the best time, what package deals are the best, where to stay,
what's it like?  Thanks.


Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: ngs@sailor.bellcore.com (Ned Stoffel 21374)
Subject: Re: Question: Layline
Reply-To: ngs@bellcore.com
Organization: Network Technology Research Lab, Bellcore
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 13:40:49 GMT

In article <1jnnc7$3gk@DIALix.oz.au>, atr@DIALix.oz.au (Australian Technology Resources) writes:
|> Hi there,
|> 
|> can anybody out there in netland explain what a layline is,
|> and what they are used for?
|> 
|> I think they have to do with approaching markers but I'd like to know more about them.
|> 
|> Thanks a lot
|> Peter

It is an imaginary line extending at different angles on both
sides of a upwind mark. It is the line that you need to reach
before your last tack in order to just clear the mark at optimal
speed. I.e., if you tack just before the layline, you will need 
to pinch too close to the wind to achieve the mark and you will
be slow getting there. (Worse yet, you have to tack twice if you 
undershoot the line.) If you waste too much time by sailing past
the layline before your last tack, you will be able to foot to
the mark at a high speed, but not fast enough to make up for the
lost time. The layline, then is the optimum balance between these
extremes. The laylines rotate around the mark when the wind changes
direction. You should determine the layline by sailing toward the
mark at a 'good' angle before the race, but be prepared to correct
for wind shifts. You also have to take the currents into account when
establishing the layline. Guessing the layline perfectly can make a
big difference in the upwind leg of a race. 

Ned

Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing,rec.travel
From: jose@troy.cc.bellcore.com (caballero,richard j)
Subject: Nags Head N.C.
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 22:37:26 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Keywords: Nags Head, Nightlife

Hi:

I am thinking of going to Nags Head N.C. in May. I will
be windsurfing but my friends will not. What other activities
are there in Nags Head?  Is it a family oriented place?
Are there young people? How is the nightlife?  These are things
my friends are concerned about.

Thanks for the info.
Rich Caballero
jose@cc.bellcore.com
From: jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Baja Information
Date: 22 Jan 93 21:16:48 GMT
Organization: Wyse Technologies San Jose, Ca

In article <1993Jan21.192042.1851@netnews.whoi.edu> hanu@jargon.whoi.edu (Hanumant Singh) writes:
>
>I was wondering if anyone knew about wind conditions, water temperatures, 
>accomodations, rentals around the Mulege and Loreto areas. I will be 
>disembarking from a Research Vessel after doing some oceanographic work in 
>the Guyamas Basin and was wondering if it was worth taking a few days off and 
>getting a windsurfing fix.

ABout 20 miles N of Mulege is Punta Chivato, a hotel point which
operates a commercial windsurfing operation. You can rent and get lessone here.

If you have your own stuff with you, there are launch points in the Mulege
area. At the end of the river, there is a pebble beach which makes
a good launch, or you can drive south to Punta Arena, a beach just inside 
the Bay Of Conception.

In March, you are at the end of the season as I understand it. Punta
Chivato may have ceased Windsurfing by then. Right now, the roads are
in terrible condition with 'worse than its been for the last twenty
years' conditions, and this was reported before the latest storms and
bridge washouts. 

There are a number of hotels in MUlege. They vary from pretty good to
'quaint'. 

After all thsi rain the desert should be fantastic.

Jim Munro

>
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: labenrsa@ICIL64.CILEA.IT
Subject: Italian surfers
Organization: CILEA - v R. Sanzio 4 - Segrate - ITALY
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 15:43:10 GMT
Reply-To: labenrsa@ICIL64.CILEA.IT

am I the only italian guy subscribed in this group? If not please reply me.
Bye Stefano.
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: dbrown@newssun.med.miami.edu (Daniel Brown)
Subject: Re: Downhauling
Organization: University of Miami, School Of Medicine
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:20:53 GMT


I'm not sure I understood this entirely.  It seems, however, that
the torque you're putting on the base would rotate the sail.  Is the
clew-end of the boom preventing this, or is the top of the mast also
against something?

Dan
From: alien@boi.hp.com (Tom von Alten)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Question: Layline
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:12:34 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.7 PL6]

Pat J. Pinchera (pjp@sloth.mlb.semi.harris.com) wrote:
: 
: You are right, they have to do with approaching the mark. The best way I
: can describe a layline is with a picture:

So for your typical windsurfer, the layline looks like:


		                   | wind
		                   |
		                   V
				     windward mark
		___________________o_________________

                port tack layline       starboard tack layline

1/2 :-)
_____________
Tom von Alten           email: alien@boi.hp.com
                        Hewlett-Packard Disk Memory Division
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: cjb3701@cs.rit.edu (Christopher J Bigenwald)
Subject: Re: Weird Windsurfer/Hydrofoil Thing
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology, Rochester, NY
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:00:56 GMT

I've seen the "hydrofoil-guy" when I lived near Miami.  He seemed to do OK in the light winds, but I never saw him when the wind was over 20mph.....   Looked like it would be fun to try though.

- Chris
From: pierre@media.mit.edu (Pierre St. Hilaire)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: a most excellent day
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:53:21 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory

>
>Yesterday was a beautiful day on the NJ coast. The temps were in the
>50 degree range all day. I was on my PC around 11am when my wife

	A most excellent day indeed! I went to Duxbury Beach (20 miles
S of Boston) and sailed all afternoon on my 4.0 . The tide was going
down, which made for big swells and Gorge-like conditions. It was sunny
and in the 50's. There were at least 15 other sailors at the site.

						Pierre St Hilaire
						MIT Media Lab
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: felixc@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (felix.cabral)
Subject: Re: Info request for Cabarete, Dom. Republic
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:53:24 GMT

In article <4310567@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> patrick@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Barry Patrick) writes:
>/ hpcc01:rec.windsurfing / nash@Think.COM (Brian Nash) /  6:48 am  Jan 20, 1993 /
>
>>In a fit of wind withdrawal I think I just committed to an excursion
>>to Cabarete in the Dominican Republic.  Has anybody gone there?
>>What conditions can I expect in mid-March?  Things to do/see?
>
>I went to Cabarete last May and got 3 days of good (5.0) sailing in
>2 weeks. The rest of the time it was soooo dead that even Vela 
>willingly gave "no wind credits". And it rained every day! 
>I went riding (horse) one day out of shear boredom. It was fun, but
>not what I went there for. You can also bike, rent scooters, hang out,
>all of which are fun to do in a place like the RD.
>I think March could be a litte iffy for wind, though.
>BP 

From what I remember the rainy season is april through may. I know for
certain it ends the beginning of june. I try to go yearly for two weeks
the end of june into july. I plan on going again this year. Last year out
of the two weeks I sailed about 12 days on mostly 4.5 sails. As a reminder
I weigh 165lbs. There were three days of 4.0 and under. Their most consistant 
windy season is june through august.


-- 
Felix Cabral         {felixc@mtgzfs3.att.com}      "Give me nukin winds,
AT&T Bell Labs       {  att!mtgzfs3!felixc  }       a rad board, rad waves,
Middletown,NJ        {     (908)957-5081    }       and a company sickday!"
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing