HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd Michel McComb)
Subject: Re: Classical Music for modern instrument
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 06:11:57 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.233602.19765@husc3.harvard.edu> Noam Elkies writes:
>In article <fan36kd@rpi.edu> Todd Michel McComb writes:
>>In South Indian (Carnatic) Classical music, one does find modern instruments
>>and electronic amplification used to perform the classical repertoire. [...]

>>So, in Carnatic music one does find modern instruments used in a classical
>>setting -- and widely accepted by purists, so long as the music played remains
>>in the strict style.

>From the very little I know about Carnatic music it would seem that this
>is not the first time that's happened: for centuries this music had been
>played also on the (European) violin, which supplanted the corresponding
>indigenous instrument soon after it was introduced to India by European
>traders and/or missionaries.

Indeed.  The primary use of the violin in Carnatic music is as melodic
accompaniment to the vocalist (along with one or more percussion instruments
providing rhythmic accompaniment) -- this often takes the form of echoing
vocal lines, and at times developing phrases while the vocalist rests.  The
story goes that the violin was introduced into Carnatic music by the brother
of the great composer Mutthuswamy Dikshitar (1776-1827), though the usage
might be somewhat older.  From a recent discussion, it appears that south
Indian scholars are unclear on exactly what instrument (if any) was used
as melodic accompaniment before the violin, though all agree that there have
been bowed string instruments of various kinds throughout India for a very
long time.  Recently, the violin has been emancipated somewhat as a solo
instrument in its own right, and in the last few years one also sees the
violin as a solo instrument in Hindustani music.

At any rate, one sees that Carnatic music is quite adept at integrating
new instruments and performance styles, while keeping strictly to the
traditional classical compositions (to the extent that these vocal works
are played note for note in instrumental performances) and improvisatory
formats.

T. M. McComb

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: torenvl@ecf.toronto.edu (TORENVLIET GERARD LAWRENS)
Subject: Re: Anyone heard of Gliere?
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:32:57 GMT

In article <1jn3pcINNddl@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU> ronthal-adam@yale.edu (Adam Ronthal) writes:
>I finally got around to catching up on my news, and I noticed this subject
>line from Deryk B.  The article was unavailable, but I thought I'd respond
>anyway.

I'll respond too.

Actually, I have heard of Gliere; I just received my last Christmas present
two days ago, and it was a disk with Gliere's Harp Concerto on it.  I have
not yet listened to it (must wait till I go home this weekend and have a CD
player at my disposal), but it is supposed to be really nice.

Yogourt,
Gerard.

_____________________________________________________________________
Gerard Torenvliet                 |
Engineering Computing Facility    |  The Mushroom Management Theory:           
University of Toronto             |   Keep them in the dark,
				  |   Feed them shit,
torenvl@ecf.toronto.edu           |   Watch them grow.
(416)221-5949                     |
---------------------------------------------------------------------



Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Don Giovanni
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:33:22 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.222922.8858@lloyd.Camex.COM>, chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay) writes:
> In article <1993Jan19.025649.5036@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu
> (Roger Lustig) writes:
> 
> >(is what kills Don G the 
> >fact that he doesn't get *any* during the entire two acts?)
> 
> I'm glad you brought this up.  I've never been able to decide just how
> "prow" the Don's prowess actually was.  What *did* happen there with Donna
> Anna at the beginning?  Did he *really* get it on with Elvira's maid after
> all?  I've not found anything that makes the answer definite one way or the
> other, and I don't mind it that way.  But do others see it differently?

I think it's pretty clear that he never gets it on with anyone during
the course of the opera. This includes Donna Anna in the beginning; I
see no reason to dispute her assurance that she managed to fend him
off.

It seems pretty clear that he *did* get it on with Elvira sometime in
the past (I've heard of, but never seen, productions that at least
imply that she is pregnant by him). On the other hand, one could also
play it that their "relationship" was never actually consummated, and
this is what has made her so crazy.

As for Leporello's list... well, all Leporello has to go on is what
Giovanni has told him, right?

> 
> I guess the most wonderful thing about Don Giovanni is its ambiguity.  Or
> do I mean duality?

Whatever. I don't know if it's the *most* wonderful thing (there is
that small matter of the music :-)), but it's certainly one of the
things that makes it interesting.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwilmer@gateway (R. Wilmer)
Subject: Re: Brahms and Tosca (Was Re: Brahms Basher Repents)
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:00:54 GMT

In article <52eaad9@Unify.Com> ceb@dbrus.Unify.Com (Caroline E. Bryan) writes:
 >
 >Apropos of dull opera, someone here mentioned a version of Tosca in which the
 >soprano gives something close to a real shriek instead of the usual cadenza
 >imitating a polite and disinterested cry (I assume this is when she throws
 >herself from the battlements?).  I'm contemplating buying my second opera
 >(Turandot was 1st and is much appreciated), and would appreciate someone
 >emailing me the specs of the "real shriek" Tosca.  Please make sure that
 >your mailer uses the address below, and --

Tosca last utterance is ``O Scarpia, avanti a Dio''.  Puccini set
the word ``Dio'' to a sustained B flat.  Possibly different
interpretations could rise from whether Tosca sings that note
while still on the battlements or whether she sings it in mid-air.

If she sings it after she has jumped, I think more interesting
than a shriek would be an expressive diminuendo.

Richard
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Classical Music for modern instrument
Date: 28 Jan 93 18:52:26 GMT
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering

dschmidt@athena.mit.edu (Dan Schmidt) said:
>
>Rock music that consciously takes classical music as an influence is
>not something that I like very much of.  Some exceptions are some King
>Crimson albums (recommended are Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Starless and
>Bible Black, and Red), Gentle Giant (Free Hand is a great album,
>except for an embarrassing faux-baroque instrumental), Henry Cow.  I
>can't stand most of Yes, ELP, or the Moody Blues.  

Good picks (although I *liked* "On Reflection" from _Free_Hand_... :-) ).

Let me add another recommendation that's at the opposite end of the rock
spectrum from the Thrash/Metal/etc. things that have been mentioned in this
thread.  There's a band called "Steeleye Span".  They have been together, in
one form or another, since 1969.  They started out as a *folk* band, singing
folk music from the U.K straight from Child's English and Scottish Ballads,
with the merest hint of amplification.  They had something like 2 gold and 7
silver albums in Great Britain, and are still recording, though not as well
as they used to.

They sing folk lyrics to folk tunes with authentic folk harmonies, for the
most part, and I *defy* anyone to call their arrangements "simple".  Sure,
some are straight 3-chord rock.  Some, on the other hand, are incredibly
complex.  If anyone can figure out the meter of the song "Dogs and Ferrets",
I'd be happy to hear it.  If you're tired of harmony in major thirds, listen
to "Betsy Bell and Mary Grey" from _Individually_and_Collectively_: two and
three part a capella, full of 7ths and 2nds.  Awesome.  "Fighting for 
Strangers" ends with a canon at the minor 2nd.  Oof.  And I'm *still* looking
for their arrangement of the hymn "Come, Ye Thankful People, Come" for my
family to sing.  I suppose I'll have to sit down and transcribe it one of 
these days.  Vaughan Williams wishes he'd written their arrangement of
"Seventeen Come Sunday".

(And, in the ripoff/faux category, their first hit single was an a capella
 rendition of the old Latin carol "Gaudete Christus est Natus"... :-)  )

Folk music can be pretty damn weird, even without going to Bulgaria.

-- 
       David Tate        |"Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | That sends the screaming liner over it 
 Prof. of Story Problems | And spills the bleacher-dwellers from their seats."
 Member ORSA, TIMS, SABR |  	"Fenway Wall", Robert Frost          
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jcm2w@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (John Clarke Mccanless)
Subject: Re: Shostakovich's 8th
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 02:01:00 GMT

In article <1993Jan28.011153.15301@dgbt.doc.ca> ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec) writes:
>In article <Jan27.231849.46136@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben) writes:
>>  I just picked up the Haitink recording of the 8th, and I am quite stunned.
>>I really don't know what to make of some of this - the 3rd movement scares
>>the hell out of me!  I guess that is the whole point of this piece, but I
>>am curious about other impressions, namely about the final minutes of the
>>last movement...
>

This is one of my favorite works, also, and I "grew up" on the Haitink
recording, which is excellent.  After hearing it live by Rostropovich
and the NSO, I was even more taken with the work - all of which is a 
sneaky way to get in a plug for the new Rostropovich/NSO recording on
TELDEC, which is even better IMHO. :)  I have heard most of the big
8ths available, and Slava's reading is frightening.  Also, the much-
maligned NSO plays superbly.

-- 
John C. McCanless				jcm2w@virginia.edu

"Genius!  Pure, unadulterated, GENIUS!!"  - Wile E. Coyote

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mkahn@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Michael Kahn)
Subject: Re: Want comments on Shaw's Mahler Symphony #8
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:49:21 GMT



In article <1993Jan21.061425.25782@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> tom@astro.as.arizona.edu (Thomas J. Trebisky) writes:
>Mahler Symphony #8 -- Atlanta Symphony Orch. Shaw -- on Telarc label.
>	This one tempts me, but I haven't purchased it ... yet.
>	Should I?
>
I've read several glowing reviews of this recording but haven't gotten the
gumption to go out and get it for whatever reason.

>Mahler Symphony #5 -- Solti, Chicago Symphony -- London (Decca) 1991
>	This one already got me -- It is well recorded but it is
>	the only #5 I have ever heard, so I have nothing to compare
>	it to.  Comments?  Have I missed something else really superb?
>

This is one of my all-time favorite pieces; and by far my favorite version.

--Michael Kahn
mlk@nwu.edu




Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: millers@cs.uwp.edu (Steve Miller)
Subject: Re: Biography questions (of Wagner singers)
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Parkside
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:47:06 GMT

Michael Pak (misha@CS.HUJI.AC.IL) wrote:
: Hi.

:    I have just finished watching the new Decca VHS, called: 
: "The Golden Ring", which the BBC filmed in 1965 during the
: making of the "Goetterdaemmerung". First, I would to recommend
: this very illuminating film to all those people who would like
: to learn more about the making of one of the greatest Wagner 
: recordings available. ...
: P.S. If you like Wagner and still haven't heard the Solti Ring, go right now
:      and do that, even if you have already heard better performances (are
:      there any: Levine, Haitink, Karajan, Janowski, Furtwaengler, etc...?)

I own the complete Decca Ring on CD and think on the whole it is superior
to every other recording I have heard, including the new Met Ring
conducted by James Levine (though Jesse Norman as Sieglinde is
unsurpassed, in my opinion).

Last summer I read John Culshaw's account of the recording of the Decca
Ring in his 276-page book, _The Ring Resounding_ (New York : Viking Press,
1967).  In that book, "The Golden Ring" video was mentioned.  I would
love to see it, but don't know where it might be available or what the
purchase cost would be.  If anyone has any leads on this, I'd appreciate
hearing from them.

Steve Miller
millers@cs.uwp.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: km34@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Keith Moulton)
Subject: Opera&Hollywood
Reply-To: km34@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Keith Moulton)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:34:02 GMT

    [Let me try posting this again]
	It has occured to me that if contemporary opera wants to succeed as
an art form for everyone, and vitally connected to modern culture, it should
follow the lead of, and even imitate Hollywood.
	I am so disappointed that the New York City Opera could not work out
a deal with the Star Trek folks to put out 'Star Trek-the Opera.'  I forget
the composer's name, but it's completely finished.  My understanding is there
was a disagreement over rights/royalties, etc.  Here is an opera that could be
done in Swahili, and everyone would _still_ know what was going on.
	Now here's an idea:  How about "The Graduate" done as an opera?  (you
can take my idea if you give me credit:).  No special effects are needed,
and the characters and situations are immediately discernible to anyone who
is aware of the significance of the cultural devlopments of the 60s.
	Of course, there is no need to copy the movies outright; but, at least
some attempt should be made by librettists to mould their characters and
situations from contemporary culture.  Consider the hit, "Ghosts of
Versailles" which takes all its material from before 1800!  I liked it very
much; however, most of my generation doesn't know who Marie Antoinette was,
let alone Beaumarchais.
	Opera was not intended to be an "intellectual" art, and the art of
Hollywood most certainly is not.  It is only because of our distance from
those opera-producing cultures in time that we have to "do a little homework"
to enjoy opera to the same extent that those in, say, Mozart's time did.  Of
course, I may be wrong.  Librettos concerning recent historical figures seems
to me to be in the right direction (Malcolm X, Nixon, etc.), but still a
cop out.

Keith Moulton.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd Michel McComb)
Subject: Re: Define "Well Tempered"
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:07:44 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.200659.16713@Princeton.EDU> Roger Lustig writes:
>In article <qzq3qm#@rpi.edu> Todd Michel McComb writes:
>>In article <1993Jan26.234010.10975@Princeton.EDU> Roger Lustig writes:
>[it ain't me, babe!]

The reply to the following was yours, I believe.  I apparently deleted one
too many attribution lines.

>>>>(Question:  Are there any serious orchestral or large ensemble 
>>>>pieces written in one of the far out keys?  And are there any 
>>>>with piano?  If so, what kinds of tuning problems do they have?)+

>>It depends on how one defines "far out" I suppose, but I always thought that
>>the 12 "standard" keys (derived as some perturbation of Zarlino's previous
>>discussion on the 12 modal scales) were: C major, C minor, D major, D minor,
>>E minor, F major, G major, G minor, A major, A minor, Bb major, B minor.
>>These keys certainly go back to the early days of tonality.

>Well, yes and no.  In Italy there was a mapping of eight keys (the so-called
>"church keys") onto the eight mode names.  There may have been a 12-key
>system, too.  

Yes, there was first the eight key system, followed by the twelve key system.
After that, all hell broke loose! :-)

>Mattheson's discussion of keys and affections has 15 entries, not including
>B minor but including F# minor.  Otherwise, it's very close to Bach's 15
>in the Inventions and Sinfonias.

Interesting.

>>Chopin certainly used new keys.
>Well, *unusual* ones.  Plenty of people had used them before.

Sure.  He gave them more of a life, if you will.

After all, we can't say any key is new after Bach's WTC I.  Anyone care to
supply the first known musical work (actually notated) in each key?  That
might be fun.

>>>Beethoven Sonata Op. 78: F sharp.  Moonlight Sonata: C sharp minor.
>>Beethoven as well -- though it is his Ab major which strikes me as most
>>impressive in this regard.
>How do you mean?

Nothing concrete.  The Ab does not have the feel of the exotic about it.

>>>The B minor Mass.  Mozart's B minor adagio.
>>There's tons of earlier stuff in B minor.  Indeed, wasn't it one of the
>>most used keys in the early baroque?
>No.  I don't know why you'd say that.  Not all that much stuff in B
>minor, really; Mozart wrote that one movement, and Beethoven called it
>"Die schwarze Tonart."  And barely used it himself.  Many writers called
>it "bizarre" and the like; c-based tunings would easily lead to such a
>judgment.  

I know Beethoven felt that way (giving Liszt his opening, so to speak),
but it seems that that was a more recent impression.  Maybe I'm wrong
about this.  Bach seemed to really like B minor: the Mass, the French
Overture, the big Prelude & Fugue in WTC I; if we do regard this key as
unusual, it is also unusual that he wrote so many singular works in it.
And Corelli uses it all over the place -- even in conservative church music.

T. M. McComb

Xref: sparky rec.music.classical:21119 bit.listserv.allmusic:15680 ny.general:556 ne.general:4114
From: IMAGING.CLUB@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Imaging Club")
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,bit.listserv.allmusic,ny.general,ne.general
Subject: New York City Opera Thrills Providence Audience With Carmen
Date: 28 Jan 93 18:38:37 GMT
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

PROVIDENCE, R.I.--January 27, 1993--Tuesday night's performance of the
New York City Opera's well-staged Carmen was sold out in Providence, again.
Many New Englanders turned out for this unique opportunity to see and hear
leading New England tenor Yuxin Lee (the recent national winner of the
Luciano Pavaroti competition), soprano Diane Alexander of Rhode Island,
and mezzo-soprano Teri Medley of Massachusetts all on the same stage.  The
company sang Bizet's opera in perfect French, with supertitles helping out
the audience.  Unfortunately, Yuxin (who is coached by Bradley Pennington
of the Boston Conservatory) was sick that evening and was replaced by his
understudy, who did perform admirably.  Lori Brown Mirabel sang the lead
role of Carmen, for which she was well type-cast.

The remaining January and February schedule for the New York City Opera
Carmen tour is listed below.  All these performances are in the evening.
The tour continues throughout the US until the end of March, except for
four days off.

January

29  Brookville, NY    Tiles Center, CW Post Campus
30  Brookville, NY    Tiles Center, CW Post Campus

February

1   Annapolis, MD     Alumni Hall, US Naval Academy
2   Williamsburg, VA  Phi Beta Kappa Hall, Col. of William & Mary
3   Williamsburg, VA  Phi Beta Kappa Hall, Col. of William & Mary
4   Radford, VA       Preston Auditorium, Radford U.
6   Charleston, WV    Municipal Auditorium
7   Morgantown, WV    Concert Theater, Creative Arts Ctr. W.V.U.
9   Wilmington, DE    Grand Opera House
10  New Brunswick, NJ State Theater
11  State College, PA Eisenhower Auditorium, Penn State
12  Hershey, PA       Hershey Theater
13  Utica, NY         Stanley Performing Arts Center
14  Burlington, VT    Flynn Theater, U. of Vermont
16  Durham, NH        Johnson Theater, University of NH
17  Orono, ME         Hutchins Concert Hall, U. of Maine
18  Portland, ME      City Hall Auditorium
19  Schenectady, NY   Proctor's Theater
20  Elmira, NY        Samuel Clemens Performing Arts Center
21  Buffalo, NY       Shea's Buffalo Theater
22  Kitchener, ONT    Center in the Square
23  Akron, OH         E.J. Thomas Auditorium
25  Columbus, OH      Ohio Theater
26  Oxford, OH        Millett Arena, Miami University
27  Kalamazoo, MI     James W. Miller Aud, Western Michigan U.
28  Madison, WI       Oscar Mayer Theatre, Madison Civic Center

Michael.Willett@OFFICE.Wang.com
From: freed@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Der Wein den mann mit Augen trinkt...)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Schipa, Gigli, and Tagliavini
Date: 26 Jan 1993 05:20:44 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: foghorn.cc.utexas.edu
Summary: very sorry, not relevant to subject line...
Keywords: Bidu
iDistribution: 

My server does not like me, so I cannot post unless it is a reply...
Very sorry!  I guess I could use strange reasoning and relate this
but...

My irrelevant request arises from the catfight over Bidu Sayou and
Semiramide, sort of.  I had heard the name before, but only after
all the postings bothered to go to the music library and check out
an old scratchy recording.  Well, I love her voice...and since I
can't find out at Tower down the street what she recorded, what's
available, etc, I wonder if anyone could tell me?

Thanks much
Greg
freed@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay)
Subject: Re: The Roman "Tosca"
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 13:30:09 EST

In article <1993Jan20.135027.10120@cc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
patrick@chianti.c.u-tokyo.ac.jp (Patrick Frisch) writes:

>Raimondo Rugieri (?? - Netters, help, I don't remember the names correctly,
>so I would appreciate to see a name list here !) was one of the best Scarpia's
>I've ever seen. He was a real good actor too, after that I cannot here 
>Scarpia without seeing his (really brutal) face in my mind.
>The Tosca (shame on me, I forgot her name), has done a very good job too. I was
>told that it was the first time for her singing this part (also true for
>Scarpia !?!).

He has also done a movie version of Don Giovanni and plays him the same way
-- purely mean.  In both cases I think he misses the point entirely.
Scarpia's nature is cruel, but I think his presentation should be suave,
gentlemanly and appealing.  Maybe I just can't get Gobbi out of my head.
His autobiography, by the way, if worth reading for anyone looking for an
intersting discussion of Scarpia.  In fact, the book begins with Scarpia's
theme.  Story of his life, more or less.

Chris Ischay
chrisi@camex.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Subject: Re: Sibelius suggestions?
Originator: brad@buck
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:46:41 GMT


In article <JWA.93Jan23014712@vipunen.hut.fi>, jwa@vipunen.hut.fi (Jyrki J Wahlstedt) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan21.165953.2003@ifi.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> snripe@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (Sailendra Nripendra) writes:
|> >I wondered why nobody suggested the incidental music THE TEMPEST;
|> >the prelude part (op. 109?) is an extraordinary piece of orchestral
|> >music. 
|> 
|>   Now the complete set is available on BIS by the Orchestra of Lahti
|>   (don't remember the catalogue number). That should be interesting.
|> --
The catalog number on BIS is CD-448, but the orchestra is the Gothenburg
Symphony, conducted by Jarvi, according to Schwann.

- BK