HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: saltzman@NIMITZ.NRL.NAVY.MIL (Lawrence Saltzman)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: QUEER NATION PHONE/FAX ZAP
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:01:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: nimitz.9204081901.AA04852

QN/NC has become involved in action around a government contractor which is
discriminating against one of our own.  A Queer National is being harrassed
and abused for, can you imagine, being VISIBLY Queer.  This QNer has worn
a shirt to the no-dress-code worksite which reads "One Fabulous Queer."  The
employer, a contractor for the US Navy (Boo!  Hiss!!) informed the employee
that the company has "a normal dress code" and that such "flaunting of sexuality
offends our very, very conservative client."  The employee, as someone working
in the District of Columbia, is fully portected under the law from discriminatio
n and harrassment on the basis of sexual orientation or personal appearance.

When the employee informed upper management of intent to file a complaint with
the DC Gov't, he was put on 60-day probation, removed from all administrative
responsibilities, given his own, personal dress code and schedule of arrival
and departure, demoted to a position subordinate to a co-worker who had been
reporting to him and was told repeatedly that being visibly Queer was "offensive
, offensive offensive"  and "unacceptable."  Further actions were then taken
against this employee; freelance clients were told by the Queers management
that this "guy had a real attitude problem...was a troublemaker..."  Then
the Queer was accused in front of witnesses of altering government records
and falsifying evidence regarding his timesheet.  The company continues to
micromanage and harrass this Queer.

The Company in question is KESTREL ASSOCIATES, INC.
                           5205 LEESBURG PIKE
                           SUITE 905
                           FALLS CHURCH, VA 22041

                           tel. (703) 379-2261
                           fax. (703) 379-2264

The employee is Lawrence Saltzman, and he works at the Naval Research Laboratory
.  He is a member of QN/Nat Cap and needs your help on this one. so please,

ZAP THESE FOLKS---PHONE 'EM, FAX 'EM, WRITE 'EM!!!  Tell Louvonia P. Wilson,
the President of the company that discrimination in any form, and especially in
the name of serving the military is DISGUSTING AND UNACCEPTABLE!!!  TELL THIS
BLACK WOMAN MINORITY-OWNED BUSINESS THAT NOT ALL MINORITIES ARE PROTECTED
CLASSES AND WERE NOT ALWAYS PROTECTED CLASSES.  MAKE THESE PEOPLE CRAZY!!!!

Thanks so much.  I really appreciate this.

L.
From: aap@next03wor.wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: I'm not your man...
Date: 17 Apr 92 20:24:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: wam.1992Apr17.202410.20561
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <sXcDJB2w164w@Bogus.COM> punk@Bogus.COM (Jack C. Royce) writes:
> gnn@wsl.dec.com (George Neville-Neil) writes:
> 
> > Since when does love == monogamy ???
> 
> Since about the beginning of time actually....   If you really loved  
that
> person, you wouldn't want to go other places. 

I agree.

> ===
> * punk@Bogus.COM (Jack C. Royce) * via CyberSpace Cafe
> My opinions are my own.  They may or may not be shared by the  
management.

AAP
Xref: sparky alt.sex:14884 alt.politics.homosexuality:2289
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Wednesday, 15 Apr 1992 21:14:29 EDT
From: Herschel Browne <HERSCH@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.sex,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Regrets
 <1992Apr15.051437.27390@spdcc.com>

In article <1992Apr15.051437.27390@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) says:
>
>
>Gee, I didn't think we were trashing Freud--we were trashing
>psychoanalysis as a branch of scientific psychology, and particularly
>one which has both predictive and prescriptive aspects as advanced
>by AAP as it reflects on gay people raising children.

If that's what you were doing, I can't argue with it, and apologize
for the misunderstanding. It's difficult, however, to read some
of the comments (particularly of Arne's) here as restricted to
what you say was their scope.
>
>
>I think you're quite right.  But not in the way AAP would hope.
>Er, Herschel, did it occur to you that when you engage a moron
>in argument, you're not going to be discussing subtleties?

Sure. But I was talking to you and Arne, neither of whom are
noticeably morons.

>
>>Some of the comments in this thread have been supremely stupid.
>>Such as, that Foucault was a literary theorist. Huh?
>
>The only person who brought up Foucault was AAP.

AAP may have introduced Foucault, but there were comments by
Arne (and maybe no one else, I don't recall) about him. And
Arne certainly suggested that Foucault was a literary theorist,
and a bad one.

>
>Ask la otra Dolfa.  I'm not sure everyone shares your warm fuzzies
>about Foucault--quite a few people think he was a charlatan.  It must
>be a measure of the esteem in which he's held.
>

Of course, not everyone shares my opinion of Foucault, or of
Marx either. Or of Max Stirner. If everyone did, I woudn't have
anything to talk about! I can say, though, that among those who
consider Foucault a charlatan are at least a few whose disinterest
is at least questionable. The historian Steven Marcus springs to mind.

>
>Perhaps you were missing some context here.  That's all I can imagine.

Perhaps I was. And perhaps the context differs depending on which
article I'm reading. Perhaps *you*, Steve, have not engaged in
wholesale disparagement of Freud and Foucault (who have *so* little
to do with each other, it's almost strange putting their names
together like that), dismissing the very idea that either of them
has anything to say to serious people, but it has been done, and
in this thread, and by the person I've referred to several times
above.

H.
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Adream
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst, MA
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 19:13:50 GMT

In article <jjfe7rk@fido.asd.sgi.com> dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:

>If you want an education, walk a mile in my shoes.

If he wants an education on homophobia, he should walk a mile in my
earring.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Someone here suggested blue square badges for
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  straights.  Maybe we should try mauve
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  heptagons?" - Damian Cugley, on soc.bi
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Adream
Date: 15 Apr 92 01:56:55 GMT
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Apr14.201444.14125@wam.umd.edu> aap@next01wor.wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>I have a dream, crazy dream....

I had this dream, and in it I was teaching cave people how to use
blenders and toasters.

Now they're posting to Usenet.

Nelson, with apologies to Laurie Anderson.
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/        You stupid vulgar greedy ugly American death sucker
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.sex
From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Subject: Re: Homosexualism
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 15:37:10 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.221249.15191@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> jfh@greenber.austin.ibm.com (John F Haugh II) writes:
>There is very little that goes on in your head that isn't a matter of choice.
>Sexual "preference" and "orientation" certainly are two of them.  At some
>level you CHOSE to be gay, just like I chose to be a straight, conservative
>minded liker of women with well-curved bodies.



All I know is that naked women have never turned by on.  Naked men, on the
other hand, have made me horny for as long as I can remember.  No choice
involved.


>And I'll repeat, there =are= organizations (and we have one here in Austin)
>that are geared towards homosexuals that no longer choose to be gay.


Yep... Torturous organizations they are too.  They never really succeed in
doing anything other than making a miserable person into a miserable
celebate.

If you want more perspective on the concept of "curing" homosexuals, read
_Cures, a Gay Man's Odyssey_ by Martin Duberman.  It will show you the
cruelty of these groups.  For that matter, it will show you what Freudian
thought does to gay men as well.




FWA
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Adream
Date: 15 Apr 1992 21:26:53 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Apr16.035041.27689@wam.umd.edu> 
aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
+ In article <92106.193654QAA@psuvm.psu.edu> 
+ Tim Bieling <QAA@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
...
+ I listen to what Gay people say, and I disagree. I might be wrong. I never
+ said that I have the truth in my hands. I give an opinion based in what I
+ know. Period.
+
+ >In summary, Alberto, when you walk a mile in a gay person's shoes,
+ >you come back and tell us how it went.  You're soo good at tossing
+ >out "research", and this, and that, but you haven't experienced
+ >what others are telling you - try that for a change.
+
+ I guess that would be hard for me to try it. Anyway, to be is not the same
+ as to know.
+ Of course, I am not saying that I know.

I don't know what to make of this.  Alberto disagrees with what gay 
people have to say about their own lives, but he doesn't claim to
know the truth.  He just doesn't like what we say.  When it's suggested 
*again* that gay people might know a little more about what it's like 
to be gay than do his pet theorists, he claims that to be gay does
not afford one some insight into the "truth" of being gay.  No, he
will continue to rely on his prejudices and on psychoanalytic drivel.  
Admit it, Alberto, you just don't like fags and dykes.  There really
seems to be no point to this at all.

Arne
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: To be or not to be, that is the question
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst, MA
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 03:40:05 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.210642.14351@wam.umd.edu> aap@next01wor.wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>Interesting.   
>
>Mr. Elf said:
>
>[Elf is not gay]
>
>But he also said in soc.motss:
>
>[Elf has a male lover]
>
>Well, I do not understand, of course,

No, you wouldn't.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Someone here suggested blue square badges for
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  straights.  Maybe we should try mauve
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  heptagons?" - Damian Cugley, on soc.bi
From: fellers@utkvx4.utk.edu (Michael Fellers, University of Tennessee)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Reporting people
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:08:00 GMT
Organization: University of Tennessee Computing Center
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr9.195837.28592@wam.umd.edu>, aap@next13epsl.wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes...
>Besides the point of what anyone posts in this newsgroup, it cannot be  
>denied that there is a high tendency among people here to:

>1) Send complains to sys-adm if GLB do not like what it is being said.  
>This makes some people to use false names.


	Possible.



>2) Insult people calling them: Homophobes, fascists, nazis, bigots, etc,  
>if GLB do not like what it is being said.


	Ahem.  We usually reserve homophobe/fascinst/nazi/bigot for those
people who call us "sick."  Isn't that name calling?  You seem to be omiting
the non-supportive heterosexuals' name calling.


>3) Lie about people, saying that he/she did this or that in another place,  
>if GLB do not like what it is being said.


	What?  I'm not evern sure what you're refering to here?  Could you be
more specific?
	You must also remember that a lot of these "homophobes" are comming
onto gay newsgroups and telling us "silly little swishes" to stay out of their
faces.  Pardon if I'm wrong, but isn't that like going into a gay bar and
saying that the gay people their need to not flaunt their sexuality?  That's
why these newsgroups are here: so we can talk in peace with other homoseuxals
and supportive heterosexuals, while also answering any questions raised by
coherent heterosexuals who want to know more about homosexuality.
	Get a clue.


>aap

						Michael Fellers
						fellers@utkvx.utk.edu
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Re: Adream
Organization: University of Maryland at College Park
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 14:06:41 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.091240.10683@lclark.edu> snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass) writes:
>In article <1992Apr16.035041.27689@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>>In article <92106.193654QAA@psuvm.psu.edu> Tim Bieling <QAA@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>>>
>
>Awe, but again you countradict yourself.  You yelled at me a few weeks
>ago because I professed to know what fascism was and you said I didn't
>know because I hadn't lived in a fascist country, such as you have lived
>in, ie Germany WWII.  But then you tell us, the ones who live now in 
>a situation that we are trying to commuicate to you, that we don't know
>what we are going through.  How can you make such a statement?  How 
>can you countradict yourself so much?  What is your agenda?


I did not say that you do not know how it feel to be GLB in this society,
which would be the right comperison to living in a fascist country.
What I said is that to be GLB does not mean to understand why/how you are
GLB.
You can live all your life in a Fascist country without understanding 
how it happens.

AAP
From: entropy@joseph (Lawrence C Foard)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Reporting people
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:52:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: wpi.1992Apr9.235218.29114
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute

In article <1992Apr9.195837.28592@wam.umd.edu> aap@next13epsl.wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>Besides the point of what anyone posts in this newsgroup, it cannot be  
>denied that there is a high tendency among people here to:
>
>1) Send complains to sys-adm if GLB do not like what it is being said.  
>This makes some people to use false names.
>
>2) Insult people calling them: Homophobes, fascists, nazis, bigots, etc,  
>if GLB do not like what it is being said.
>
>3) Lie about people, saying that he/she did this or that in another place,  
>if GLB do not like what it is being said.

Now compare this to the bigots:

1) Crash the machine with a sendsys attack if they don't like whats being
   said.

2) Insult people by calling them: faggots, child molestors, etc.

3) Post everything behind an alias. Threaten people with violence and then
   complain when some one files a complaint (threats arn't protected
   speech).


-- 
Disclaimer: All opinions expressed are 99.44% true.            ------  0<p<1  
Hackers do it for fun.  |  Being Bisexual squares your         \    / therefore
"Profesionals" do it for money. |  probability of not getting   \  / p^2<p and
Managers have others do it for them. |  laid on a saturday night.\/ 1-p^2>1-p
From: robertj@Autodesk.COM (Young Rob Jellinghaus)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: To be or not to be, that is the question
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:49:13 GMT
Organization: Autodesk Inc., Sausalito CA, USA

In article <1992Apr13.210642.14351@wam.umd.edu> aap@next01wor.wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>Mr. Elf said:
[...]
>>         Elf is quite male.
>>         Elf has been married for seven years to a lovely young lady.
>>         Elf is NOT gay.
>
>But he also said in soc.motss:
[...]
>>   I know of a few heterosexual women, but my most striking example of
>>this was a recent encounter when a _lesbian_ I know approached me and
>>my lover and said, "I've never watched a man in action.  Can I watch
>>you two fuck?"
>>
>>   When I replied that she could always rent a porn film, she said, "If
>>I wanted to watch a movie, I'd rent a movie!  I want to watch some dick
>>going into some ass!"
[...]
>Well, I do not understand, of course,
>AAP

Of course you don't understand, Alberto.  Have you ever heard the word
"bisexual"?  Did you read Elf's anecdote above, in which he said the
lesbian in question was approaching Elf and Elf's _lover_--_not_
Elf's wife?  Elf is married to a woman, and also has both female and
male lovers; everyone involved is fully aware of every- one else,
there's no sneaking around going on.  And a happier, healthier, saner
bunch of people I've seldom seen.

Elf's NOT gay, nor straight:  he's bisexual.

Now do you get it?

Oh, and if you find this stuff so disgusting, then why don't you go
away?  Or if you can't do that, why not try to _learn_ something
instead of acting put-upon by those of us who have described current
psychological research to you?

--
Rob Jellinghaus                | "Next time you see a lie being spread or
Autodesk, Inc.                 |  a bad decision being made out of sheer
Internet: robertj@Autodesk.COM |  ignorance, pause, and think of hypertext."
AMIX: RJELLINGHAUS             |    -- K. Eric Drexler, _Engines of Creation_
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: aap@next01wor.wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Re: To be or not to be, that is the question
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 19:26:51 GMT

In article <11060@autodesk.COM> robertj@Autodesk.COM (Young Rob  
Jellinghaus) writes:
> Of course you don't understand, Alberto.  Have you ever heard the word
> "bisexual"?  Did you read Elf's anecdote above, in which he said the
> lesbian in question was approaching Elf and Elf's _lover_--_not_
> Elf's wife?  Elf is married to a woman, and also has both female and
> male lovers; everyone involved is fully aware of every- one else,
> there's no sneaking around going on.  And a happier, healthier, saner
                                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> bunch of people I've seldom seen.

Yeah, specially that...
> 
> Elf's NOT gay, nor straight:  he's bisexual.
> 
> Now do you get it?

Yes, thanks.

> why not try to _learn_ something
> instead of acting put-upon by those of us who have described current
> psychological research to you?

Try to learn what?


> 
> --
> Rob Jellinghaus                | "Next time you see a lie being spread 


AAP
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: sik@cs.uow.edu.au (Stein, the 24hr man)
Subject: Re: To be or not to be, that is the question
Sik-Disclaimer: I don't know what I'm talking about!
Organization: Sik-SW, Dept-Comp-Sci, Uni-Of-W'gong, NSW 2500, AUSTRALIA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 02:32:20 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.232943.10081@amhux2.amherst.edu>
    twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) wrote:

>You have missed something.  Elf specified the "so-called" ass (what
>else would you call it?) as belonging to a man.

Well, I have kids, so I'm not really into rude language, I leave that to them...
They teach me and I try to stop them...

>-- 
>____ Tim Pierce                / "Someone here suggested blue square badges for
>\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  straights.  Maybe we should try mauve
> \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  heptagons?" - Damian Cugley, on soc.bi

 Stein - sik@cs.uow.edu.au
'When thou walkest through the fire, thou shall not be burned.' -Isaiah 43:2
'The older I get, the better I used to be.' - Lykketrollet
Xref: sparky alt.politics.homosexuality:2002 alt.sex:14166
From: pdj7631@zeus.tamu.edu (Illithid the Mind Flayer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.sex
Subject: Re: Homosexualism
Date: 11 Apr 92 21:46:00 GMT
Followup-To: alt.politics.homosexuality
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <pgr.702944547@debussy.crhc.uiuc.edu>, pgr@crhc.uiuc.edu (Paul Ryan) writes...
> 
>Go survey your strayt male friends - how many of them are attracted to members
>of both sexes and choose to behave heterosexually?  Not many.  Most strayt
>men have been attracted to women all their lives, no choice about it.

Actually, in my experience, quite a few "straight" guys are choosing not
to express (or admit) their attraction to men.  Fortunately, this is curable.

>Anyone who experiences sexual orientation as a choice is a bisexual.  Is
>that what you're telling us?  Fine.  But it's not the experience we had.
> 
>Paul

I wouldn't even say that.  I don't feel that I have a choice about being
bisexual, either.  Who I sleep with is my choice, but who I'm attracted to
is not.

______
\    /___   Illithid  (Paul D. Jones)    Texas A&M, especially the Corps
 \  /   /                                of Cadets, stands staunchly behind
  \/\  /    PDJ7631@zeus.tamu.edu        each and every one of my opinions.
     \/
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: 70750.2052@Compuserve.Com ("Ronnie Jr.")
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: FJ Needs Some History Lessons
Date: 6 Apr 92 18:28:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: Compuser.92040061327.AA03318

The "flying" Dutchman, fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!) writes:
>
>So he posts drivel, thinks things through halfway, decides he knows best
>and then tells us it is Jeff's & co. own fault that they got bombed, by him.
>
But, of course, we are supposed to believe that YOU, "FJ!!", TRULY know
best and can haughtily cast aspersions on Dark Knight.

>And this brillinat thinker can't figure out where .nl is.
>
One point for you.

>Let me give you a
>clue (actually I already gave it): 50 years ago a war started here that raged
>half a decade and killed millions
>
I beg to differ.  Your pathetic little swamp of a nation was NOT the
starting ground of World War II, and in fact, your legions of "mighty"
Dutchmen fought for under a MONTH before your royal family ran like scared
dogs and your nation became another chunk of land in the Third Reich.  How
dare you associate the Netherlands with any part of the Second World War,
save the pathetic fight they put up (and LOST) for their own defense.

>started by a man who decided that he knew
>the solutions and didn't have to account to anyone, feeding on the ignorance
>and fear of his people, refusing to think.
>
Ah, but the solutions that YOU think he had are not the solutions he truly
had.  The horrors that the world associates with Nazi Germany were, in fact,
not Hitler's plans at all, but the interpretation of his plans by some of
the mentally deranged and over-zealous high ranking members of the Nazi
government.  Hitler was guilty of nothing more than a poor choice of
associates... a little TOO much loyalty to the powerful, yet warped,
persons who assisted him in bringing his message out of the dark alleys
and into the limelight of German politics.

As for refusing to think... the man was brilliant, especially in military
and political strategy.  Before he was betrayed by his underlings, he brought
Germany from the verge of economic collapse to a state of economic and military
power that challenged the WORLD, all in under twenty years.  As for military,
save his overzealousness in backing his allies and his catastrophic
decision at Moscow in the winter of 1941, his record speaks for itself:
Poland fell in under a month, France in 6 weeks, from Warsaw to Moscow in
less than 6 months.  Hardly the mark of a man that "refuses to think."

>Go for the mailbombs when you don't like the message.
>
I think Dark Knight means more along the lines of, "Respond in kind."

>And then tell us how
>peacefull and rational you are. Sure. I bet you don't even see the
>contradiction.
>
If you wish to see how "peaceful and rational" the people on YOUR side
are, send mail to root@digex.com (my old system administrator) and ask
him how many mail messages his system was bombarded with when I posted
from there.  The truth hurts, gay boy.


Ronnie Jr.
"Queer Nation uses confrontation.  Let's confront them back into the closet."
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality