From: greis@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gayla Ann Greis)
Subject: RE: Dealing with the Dealer.
Originator: greis@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 05:28:41 GMT

From vn Wed Aug 26 00:22:33 1992
> You in netland may be able to do better.  However, this method seems to 
> work in most cases, and is fair to both sides.
> 
> I'll answer any email questions, but direct flames to /dev/null.

No too badly said Mike, but let me make a few "adjustments." You are
correct about the salesman not setting the final selling price. Be
prepared, it's your best weapon. While this method will work in *MOST*
cases, and believe me, I'd rather have customers who do this than haggle
and think they know what they're doing, it won't in all. Many cars are
exempt from this list, and *DO* bring MSRP or close to it. A Grand
Cherokee Limited, or a VW EuroVan will bring what the sticker says, a
Plymouth Acclaim will sell for $300 over costs in most cases.

Once you start working with a salesman, if s/he's knowledgeable, and
seems honest, keep working with them. Even if s/he turns you out two
or three times, if you're close, make the deal with that person, because
they're on commission, not hourly. (Don't even breathe at another
salesman even if they say, "Well its XXX's day off, is there something
*I* can do for you?" GAG! SLIME!) Just leave a note, and make an appt.
If you don't like the salesman, get a different one, but don't waste
many people's time.

A check to back what you offer is the most powerful way of saying,
"I'll do it today if you'll meet me at my price." If you don't put this
offer down, don't expect to get "the best price," because experience 
says you'll just go down the street and try and beat it. (See earlier
post of person trying to buy Toyota truck and running from dealer to
dealer getting whipped.) Be prepared to have your offer accepted if that's
what you're really offering!!! In many dealerships, the salesman is 
instructed *NOT* to even waste a manager's time until money is on the
table. e.g. The salesman may go in the back room after writing up your
offer, smoke a cigarette, and come back and try to bump you into more
money without even running an offer. Why? Because you weren't serious
enough about your offer. (If you were, why not back it up?) You can
always get the check back, and leave if the offer is not accepted.

There is ***NOT*** $8,000 markup in every car, or DCI (Dealer Cash
Incentives), or rebates on every car. Holdbacks are a way of making
up losses on long standing inventory, and are not a profit center.
Check out the library, and be aware that those numbers change during
the year - especially on imports because of trade fluctuations.

Rustproofing is usually a waste of money. Some cars come factory
undercoated, like VW, and doing it again is *REALLY* a waste. Some
things are not all that bad, and provide profit for the dealer, AND
security for you... Things such as extended service contracts provide
"warrantees" on used cars, and extend the warrantee life of new cars.
e.g. I just bought a new car this week from myself for a $400 profit
from the dealer. The VW factory warrantee is 5/50 P&D and 2/24 B-B.
We put ***HIGH*** miles on our cars quickly, so a 6/100,000 near
B-B warrantee was a wise investment. Fabric guard you can spray on
yourself. Paint sealant isn't a bad idea if you live in the city, or
own a black or "soft"-pigment car. Some accessories actually add value
to the car down the road (10 years or more usually). Go to a car show
and see what I mean.

Even though you are presenting a check to the dealer with your loan
value pre-approved, as you are working the deal, mention the rate that
you have to the F&I guy, and hint that you will let them finance you if
they can beat that payment by, say $5-10 per month. Often, a dealer will
take a mini-deal "front" because, even at a minimal interest rate
markup, the dealer still makes money, and you get a better payment - by
eliminating the middleman - the bank. Be aware though, the salesman only
sees a percentage of the "front" so a bottle of wine, or a gift
certificate would sure be a nice touch when you get a good honest deal
from someone who you like... (Yes, a "tip".)

Oh, and one last thing... when considering your trade... Two main books
are used for appraising your car, the "black book" and the "NADA" guide.
The dealer will *only* pay wholesale for your car. Anything above that
is discount, so if you have already followed the above proceedure to get
a max discount, and then want a lot for your trade, be prepared to be
"bumped." A good rule of thumb I use with customers is that the major
item we are looking at is final cash price. If I give you more for your
car, or more off this new one, either way whats important is what you
still have to pay. So if you would walk in and see *YOUR* car on our lot,
*AFTER* negotiations, what would you expect the final selling price to
be on *YOUR* car? From that take $1200, because it costs about $600 to
put a car on the lot, and we need to sell it and make about a $600 profit.
(Actually, most people over-appraise their cars, so we end up in discount
again. But we're at least closer, say only $500 or $1000 extra in the
trade, off the sticker, before negotiating the additional discount.)
Now what you don't realize is that your are usually saving yourself money
by trading in a car. Or at least a lot of headaches. You don't have to
place an ad, meet customers, do your own negotiations, be responsible for
breakdowns, etc. You also don't have to pay the SALES TAX on the difference
in the transaction. Say you are buying a $20,000 car, but trading in your
$10,000 car. 5% sales tax on $10,000 is $500. You would have to pay that
tax without a trade. Now if your tax rate is higher than 5%, that's a
lot of $$ you're saving (plus time and headaches).

Boy, I only wish I could reach all my customers and tell them what you
know... :-) 

Thanks for listening!!!


Xref: sparky rec.autos:21407 rec.autos.vw:5018 rec.autos.sport:9543 rec.autos.tech:12184