HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: susanm@hp-and.an.hp.com (Susan Margulies)
Newsgroups: sci.image.processing
Subject: RE: Image Correlation Question
Date: 5 Jan 1993 09:09:06 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Thanks for the responses to my image correlation question which convinced 
me that the NMR article defines the correlation coefficient under the 
assumption of an image with zero mean even though they don't specify it.  
However, such an assumption doesn't hold for the ultrasound images I am 
working with.  

My problem is that when I take a 3rd order linear predictive equation:

U'_i,j = A1 * U_i-1,j + A2 * U_i,j-1 + A3 * U_i-1,j-1

and then minimize the expected value of the square prediction error:

E[(U_i,j - U'_i,j)^2]

I get equations for A1, A2, and A3 which have factors in them of the
form used in the NMR article to define rho(x,y), namely:

E(U_i,j U_i-x,j-y)
------------------
     E(U_i,j^2)

My dilemma then reduces to:

Can I safely use these A1, A2, and A3 with an image with a non-zero
mean???  

If the answer is no, then I understand the discrepancy 
between the two definitions of rho(x,y).  However, if the answer is
yes, which I don't see how it *couldn't* be given that all I am
doing is computing some image statistics, a linear predictor, and
coefficients to minimize the MSE of said predictor, then there is 
a definite discrepancy in the two definitions.

So am I missing something inherent in either my 3rd order linear
prediction equation or the process of minimizing the mean square
prediction error which constrains me to using images of zero mean?

Another thing which I have realized - when I compute rho(x,y) using
the NMR definition, I get numbers greater than 1 which implies gain
exists in the prediction.  When I compute rho(x,y) using the
definition which subtracts the square of the first moment from
numerator and denominator, I get numbers close to but never
exceeding 1.  To me, it is logical that a correlation coefficient
would lie between 0 and 1.  Is that an incorrect conclusion for me
to draw?

Thanks for any help you can give me!

Susan
--
Susan E. Margulies       
HP Imaging Systems       
508-681-2153 (work)      
susanm@hp-and.an.hp.com 

Newsgroups: sci.image.processing
From: wayne@helix.nih.gov (Wayne Rasband)
Subject: Re: Sorting RGB Palette in Intensity Order.  Please Help !
Followup-To: sci.image.processing
Organization: NIH
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:12:39 GMT

In article <1ie20sINNe78@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu>,
csyew@ecst.csuchico.edu (YewSim Cheah) wrote:
> 
> I would like to sort an array of RGB Palette in intensity order,
> but do not know how.  Does anybody please help ?
> 
NIH Image for the Macintosh can sort RGB palettes in intensity order. It is
available, including complete source, from zippy.nimh.nih.gov, in the
directory /pub/image.

--wayne
From: pigeons@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Pigeon Steven)
Newsgroups: sci.image.processing
Subject: Re: Sorting RGB Palette in Intensity Order.  Please Help !
Date: 10 Jan 93 03:46:07 GMT
Organization: Universite de Montreal

In article <1993Jan9.134848.7175@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu> smith@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu writes:
>> I would like to sort an array of RGB Palette in intensity order,
>> but do not know how.  Does anybody please help ?
>> 
>I sort first by min(r,g,b), then by saturation and then intensity.  The goal 
>(I assume) is to get a sorted set of indices that displays reasonably as B&W. 
>Intensity=(r+g+b)/3.
>
>+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>|Ross Smith,  Research Computing Resource, Department of Cell Biology, NYU-MC|
>|E-Mail:  SMITH@NYUMED.BITNET (BITNET),   SMITH@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Internet)|
>+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+


NOT! >Intensity=(r+g+b)/3.

The actual Intensity value is:


 Intensity:=(r*0.299)+(g*0.587)+(b*0.114)

giving intensity as [0..1]. These are to a few decimal, but more precise
coeff. are hard to find.

	Regards,
		S.


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
 STEVEN PIGEON, a.k.a pigeons@jsp.umontral.ca, planet Earth.
==Departement d'informatique et de Recherche Operationnelle=
              == Universite de Montreal==
From: wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.MIL (Wm. Douglas Withers -- math  FACULTY <wdw@sma.usna.navy.mil>)
Newsgroups: sci.image.processing
Subject: Re: Sorting RGB Palette in Intensity Order.  Please Help !
Date: 12 Jan 93 17:02:02 GMT
Organization: U.S. Naval Academy

In article <1993Jan12.145735.15271@city.cs> lionel@cs.city.ac.uk (Lionel Tun) writes:
>pigeons@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Pigeon Steven) writes:
>> Intensity:=(r*0.299)+(g*0.587)+(b*0.114)
>
>Why is this the case? Is it related to the sensitivity of the eye
>for the different primary cones, or is it to do with physics?

The explanation is physiological rather than physical.

>Does it mean that green is the 'dimmest' colour and blue is
>the 'brightest'? Does it also mean the RGB model is not ideal?

It means that, of the primary colors, green is the `lightest' and blue
the `darkest.'  If we consider also the complements to the primary colors
(yellow, cyan, magenta), then yellow, being a combination of red and green
becomes the lightest.  This fits with intuition for me.  Yellow is a lighter
color than blue.

I don't see it as any flaw in the RGB model.  If you like, you can always
renormalize R, G, B to make the coefficients each 1.  But this would mean
it's no longer possible to reach full saturation on R, G, or B.

-- 
Els Withers                   email: wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.mil
          phone: (410)267-3192 / fax: (410)267-4883
		  
The real difference between humanity and other animals:  birth-control pills.
From: tmb@arolla.idiap.ch (Thomas M. Breuel)
Newsgroups: sci.image.processing
Subject: Re: Efficient algorithms for math. morphology : where are you ?
Date: 10 Jan 93 12:09:39
Organization: IDIAP (Institut Dalle Molle d'Intelligence Artificielle
	Perceptive)
Reply-To: tmb@idiap.ch
NNTP-Posting-Host: arolla.idiap.ch
In-reply-to: ponthieu@cli23ne.edf.fr's message of Fri, 8 Jan 1993 13:10:10 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.131010.2436@edf.fr> ponthieu@cli23ne.edf.fr ( Laurent PONTHIEU ) writes:

   [need to do morphological operations on large images fast]

For convex structuring elements, you can use the distance transform,
which can be computed relatively quickly.  If your images are mostly
white, a quad-tree based approach may work well.  But on complex
3000x3000 images, anything is going to be slow (several minutes for
the DT on a SS2).

					Thomas.
From: spl@ivem.ucsd.edu (Steve Lamont)
Newsgroups: sci.image.processing
Subject: Re: WANTED: Infra-red images
Date: 8 Jan 1993 14:18:49 GMT
Organization: University of Calif., San Diego/Microscopy and Imaging Resource
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivem.ucsd.edu

In article <1993Jan8.150722.61665@qut.edu.au> csn201lawren@qut.edu.au writes:
>Does anybody know of a source of infra-red images or similar?

vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (128.174.5.98) has weather satellite IR images.  Fish
in the directory wx.

							spl
-- 
Steve Lamont, SciViGuy -- (619) 534-7968 -- spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu
UCSD Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UCSD Med School/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608
"Personally, I don't care whether someone is cool enough to quote Doug
Gwyn--I only care whether Doug Gwyn is cool enough to quote." - Larry Wall
Newsgroups: sci.image.processing
From: friedric@diogenes.uni-passau.de (Carsten Friedrich)
Subject: Big RGB <-> CMY Problem
Keywords: rgb, cmy
Organization: University of Passau, Germany
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 13:48:20 GMT

Hi,

I have a big problem converting colors from cmy to rgb and vice versa.
The usual aproach, to just invert the components seems to be incorrect.
The following facts make me think so:

- if you print a bar of yellow on the screen with brightness ranging from 
0% to 100% you'll see that it is slightly greenish

- if you look at an image that is scanned with a very good scanner 
(like hell) you will see that e.g. red colors in real turn to purple colors 
on the screen

- if you look at color tables printed in 7 color-printing technique you'll see
that the inverse color of cyan is not red, but a kind of orange. Also the inverse
colors of magenta and yellow, are not the green and blue you use in rgb.
if you trust the color tables it seems not to be just a linear offset, but sth.
more complex. 


Can anyone help me solve this problem ???



thanx and greetings,

carsten
Newsgroups: sci.image.processing
From: jjs@iedv6.acd.com ( James J. Song       )
Subject: Build 3D object from images
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:47:49 GMT

I am seeking information about building a 3D object from severy images
captured from differect angles around the object. I would appreciate
very much any recommendations about books, papers, and software availability.


James Song
Newsgroups: sci.image.processing
Subject: Re: Big RGB <-: CMY Problem
From: athomson@otago.ac.nz (Alastair Thomson)
Date: 8 Jan 93 11:09:08 +1300
 <1icliuINNfkj@cascade.cs.ubc.ca> <1993Jan7.124214.8940@tom.rz.uni-passau.de> <C0HM2E.Grx@cs.dal.ca>
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand

In article <C0HM2E.Grx@cs.dal.ca>, legrady@ug.cs.dal.ca (Tom Legrady) writes:
> 
> If you have white light light and remove the red, you wind up with
> cyan.  No two ways about it. Remove the green from white and the
> remainder is magenta. Take out the blue and the result is yellow.

The question here is what do you mean by "white light", or "green", do you mean
the entire visible spectrum?, do you mean what you see as white on a CRT?, is
green one wave length?, is green a range of wavelengths?, what range?  

The real difficulty is that we are talking about the perception of colour, not
some mathematical model of it. If the original poster could specifiy exactly
why they want to do the conversion I may be able to help some more

Alastair
-- 
===============================================================================
                                    |
Alastair Thomson,                   | Phone +64-3-479-8347
University of Otago,                | Fax   +64-3-479-8529
Department of Computer Science,     | e-mail athomson@otago.ac.nz
P.O. Box 56                         |
Dunedin                             |
New Zealand                         |
 
   "God loved the world so much, that he gave us His Son, to die in 
    our place, so that we may have eternal life" John 3:16, paraphrase

===============================================================================
Newsgroups: sci.image.processing
From: daniel@marl2.marl.panasonic.com (Daniel C. Gnanaprakasam)
Subject: Gradient of RGB images
Organization: Matsushita Applied Research Labs.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:55:38 GMT

I am looking for literature on computing gradient of RGB images.  Most
of the standard image processing books define gradient for monochrome images.
Ideally the operator should mark edges between regions of different color,
but the regions themselves could be isoluminous if only the Y component
of the RGB is looked at.

Thanks.

daniel


-- 
Daniel C. Gnanaprakasam                     Phone: (609) 386-5995
Matsushita Applied Research Labs.           Fax  : (609) 386-4999
95D Conneticut Drive	 	           e-mail: daniel@marl.panasonic.com 
Burlington, NJ 08016
Newsgroups: sci.image.processing
From: rlafolle@apssgi.nswc.navy.mil (Robert D. LaFollette)
Subject: Image Processing for the PC
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 13:10:08 GMT

	Hello,

		I am looking for an image processing package for my PC.  I would
	be most interested in something that uses the system display, and has
	a point-n-click user interface.  Something that works with Windows 
	would be acceptable.  Shareware or freeware would of course be my first
	choice, but I am also interested in commercial packages.  Please send
	responses directly to me and I will post a summary.
		

				Thanks,

					Robert LaFollette



		Attn: Code L10MP   Robert LaFollette 
		Dahlgren Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center
		Dahlgren, VA 22448-5000

		(703)663-4749   autovon 249-4749
		FAX (703)663-4749
		Email   rlafoll@see.nswc.navy.mil
			rlafoll@128.38.158.43


Newsgroups: sci.image.processing
From: hedley@ee.su.oz.au ()
Subject: Code for binary morphological operations
Reply-To: hedley@ee.su.oz.au ()
Organization: Electrical Engineering, The University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 04:30:26 GMT

I am looking for C code or descriptions of algorithms for efficiently
performing the dilation and erosion operations with arbitrary structuring
elements.

I am also after advice on how to handle image boundaries.

Thanks in advance for any help,

Mark Hedley
hedley@ee.su.oz.au

Newsgroups: sci.image.processing
From: loquax@cln46fu.edf.fr (Jean-Yves Christine)
Subject: wanted: OCR products for UNIX
Reply-To: loquax@cln46fu.edf.fr (Jean-Yves Christine)
Organization: Electricite de France - DER , Clamart FRANCE
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:47:43 GMT

--

Hello everybody,

We wish to obtain addresses and phone numbers of OCR companies in the USA whic
h
can provide OCR products running under UNIX operating system (on Sun's, or HP'
s,
or IBM's platforms, or ...)

We are especially interested in OCR products which have an API, in order to
incorporate them into our software developments.

Thanks,

  ======================================================================

                             Jean-Yves Christine

  ==========================================================================
   Electricite De France
   Direction des Etudes et Recherches      tel: (33.1).47.65.53.19
   Departement SID - Bat. G1               fax: (33.1).47.65.50.07
   1 Av General de Gaulle    
   92141 Clamart CEDEX                  e-mail: jyc@cln46ge.der.edf.fr
   FRANCE
  ==========================================================================



Newsgroups: sci.image.processing
From: jbm@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Jeffrey Mulligan)
Subject: Re: Gradient of RGB images
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:56:19 GMT

daniel@marl2.marl.panasonic.com (Daniel C. Gnanaprakasam) writes:

>I am looking for literature on computing gradient of RGB images.  Most
>of the standard image processing books define gradient for monochrome images.
>Ideally the operator should mark edges between regions of different color,
>but the regions themselves could be isoluminous if only the Y component
>of the RGB is looked at.

The gradient operator is defined on scalar fields (images).
The components of the gradient vector are the partial derivatives
of the scalar with respect to the spatial variables.
For vector fields you have a matrix of partial derivatives.
For a three component images, there will be six of them.
If all you want to do is segment regions, then you could treat the
six partial derivatives as the components of a 6D vector and
threshold on the length of this vector.  Compute the gradients of
the component r g and b images, and then possibly transform
the values to normalize the different color directions.

-- 

	Jeff Mulligan (jbm@vision.arc.nasa.gov)
	NASA/Ames Research Ctr., MS 262-2, Moffett Field CA, 94035-1000
	(415) 604-3745
Newsgroups: sci.image.processing
From: oliver@earthview.cms.udel.edu (Oliver Weatherbee)
Subject: Information on Lowtran?
Reply-To: oliver@earthview.cms.udel.edu
Organization: Marine Studies, University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 19:52:11 GMT

I am interested in obtaining the latest LOWTRAN Radiative 
Transfer Code for the atmospheric correction of satellite 
data. Could someone please tell me where (and how) I can get
it. 
 
I'd also be interersted in hearing of any comparisons between 
LOWTRAN code and SAIL or other RTC models.
 
Thanks,

	Oliver Weatherbee



Newsgroups: sci.image.processing
From: lionel@cs.city.ac.uk (Lionel Tun)
Subject: WANTED: Motion images
Organization: City University, London
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 10:41:50 GMT

Hello,

I am searching for image sequences to test motion algorithms.
I have found an excellent set of 64 images called trees from
umass (camera moving past some trees) and I need more examples.

Ideally, about 256x256 pixels, 8 bit greyscale, small diffs
between images, camera motion (translation perpendicular to
optical axis).

If anyone can point me to ftp sites I would be grateful.

--
  ________  Lionel Tun, lionel@cs.city.ac.uk  ________
 / /_  __/\       Computer Vision Group      /\ \__  _\
/___/_/_/\/ City University, London EC1V 0HB \ \___\_\_\
\___\_\_\/        071-477 8000 ext 3889       \/___/_/_/
Newsgroups: sci.image.processing
From: friedric@kirk.fmi.uni-passau.de (Carsten Friedrich)
Subject: Re: Big RGB <-: CMY Problem
Organization: University of Passau, Germany
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 12:42:14 GMT

Hallo,

first of all, thank you for all your answers and help !
but it seems there has been some misunderstanding about what i ment with 
my question, so i'll try to say it in another way:

before december last year, i thought the following was true:

- in a ideal, device independened color theory you have an additive color model
using rgb and a complemantary subtractive color-model cmy. you convert from one
to abnother by rgb = 1- cmy

- in real printing you don't have ideal devices, so you have to extract a k
component to get the right colors. this is called seperating and as far as i
know is the art of converting rgb to cmyk and is _NOT_ what i want, as i only 
want to convert from rgb to cmy. 


then the following happened:

i looked at a color circle printed in 7 color-printing, which is much more
detailed and exact than standard 4-color printing. in this circle the opposite
color of cyan was not as i expected from the theory red, but a kind of orange.
(same with magenta and green, and yellow and blue). as there was no color
conversion involved it can not be the fault. but this can only mean cmy and rgb
are even in theory not complementary.



now this is what i would like to know:

- is it right that cmy and rgb are even in theory not complementary ?

- if no, what is my mistake in the text above?

- if yes, what is the correct way to convert from additive rgb to subtractive 
cmy and vice versa ?



thanks and greetings,
carsten

################################################################################
carsten friedrich		    innocent,
friedric@kirk.fmi.uni-passau.de	    better search for the wholeness of the soul,
friedric@forwiss.uni-passau.de	    than for the soul of wholeness.
################################################################################
Newsgroups: sci.image.processing
From: beuker@prl.philips.nl (Beuker RA)
Subject: Re: Big RGB <-: CMY Problem
Organization: Philips Research Laboratories Eindhoven, Netherlands
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 13:59:10 GMT

friedric@kirk.fmi.uni-passau.de (Carsten Friedrich) writes:

>
>now this is what i would like to know:
>
>- is it right that cmy and rgb are even in theory not complementary ?
>
>- if no, what is my mistake in the text above?
>
>- if yes, what is the correct way to convert from additive rgb to subtractive 
>cmy and vice versa ?
>

Subtractive colour mixing is not linear. To calculate the resulting colour
when you overlap two inkts, as is done by a printer, you have to know the
whole spectrum of the colour without overlap MULTIPLY this by the spectral
density of the overlapping inkt and calculate the corresponding RGB values
using the colour matching functions.

It is in principle possible to calculate the resulting RGB values from the
CMY(B) values if you know the RGB values of each resulting colour in an
N-colour system, so N=7 or 8 (no inkt) in your case. The equations are known
as the Neugebauer equations. Unfortunately these equations cannot be inverted
and secondly the CMY space is a subspace of the RGB space. For example a
saturated colour with a high luminance cannot be created on paper. I give the
two references that I have:

1. Die theoretische grundlagen des mehrfarbendrucks
   H.E.J. Neugebauer
   Zeitschrift der wissens. Photog., band 36, 4, pp.7-89, '37

2. Theory of masking for color correction. I masks drawn from the subject
   H.E.J. Neugebauer
   Jour. Opt. Soc. Am., Vol. 42, pp. 740-7, '52

There were some papers in a SPIE conference on this subject, but I do not have
the reference at this moment.

Hope this helps,

Rob Beuker
Philips Research Laboratories
Eindhoven
The Netherlands

Organization: Senior, Psychology, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: sci.cognitive
Date: Fri,  8 Jan 1993 18:09:14 -0500 
From: "Richard Earle Seeger, III" <rs6t+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: RE: DREAMS


miket@hermes.tcs.com (Michel Turner nmscore Assoc) writes:

>The gist of the technique is to build a little story around each new
>small cluster of material.  Letters of the alphabet are learned by
>building the letters out of some basic shapes, making up a strange
>and funny story that provides clues to pronunciation.  Before learning
>anything like the whole alphabet, words are built out of the letters
>learned, again with each couched in the context of some story.  Very
>little is done by rote.


You might be interested in the book "Tell Me a Story: A New Look at Real
and Artificial Memory" by Roger Schank. He explains how storage of 
information in the brain and general intellgent behavior is related to 
the telling and remembering stories.

Rick Seeger
Newsgroups: sci.cognitive
From: christo@psych.toronto.edu (Christopher Green)
Subject: Re: cogsci vs ai
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 16:12:08 GMT

In article <C0Jtrw.H6r@athena.cs.uga.edu> jsahasi@aisun2.ai.uga.edu (Jayesh Sahasi [MSAI]) writes:
>Can someone explain the difference between the fields of AI and CogSci???

AI is but one subdiscipline in CogSci, which is essentially interdisciplinary.
Other component disciplines include psychology, philosophy, linguistics,
and -- depending on who you talk to -- neuroscience and anthropology.

-- 
Christopher D. Green                christo@psych.toronto.edu
Psychology Department               cgreen@lake.scar.utoronto.ca
University of Toronto
Toronto, Ontario M5S 1A1
Xref: sparky sci.cognitive:981 comp.ai.philosophy:7260 comp.ai.neural-nets:4802
From: 18669@bach.udel.edu (Steven R Hoskins)
Newsgroups: sci.cognitive,comp.ai.philosophy,comp.ai.neural-nets
Subject: Machine Readable Cog Sci Texts
Date: 12 Jan 93 02:28:10 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

I am looking for ASCII texts of articles/books on all areas of Cognitive
Science. I was wondering if any might be available through Internet. 
Since I am a novice to networking, I am not sure where to start looking.
I would greatly appreciate any suggestions or information. Thanks in
advance.

Regards,

Steve Hoskins
University of Delaware
Newsgroups: sci.cognitive
From: jssloka@monet.uwaterloo.ca (Scott Sloka)
Subject: Modelling the Brain as a System
Keywords:  Brain, System
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:31:22 GMT


Howdy.  I am a graduate student in Biomedical Engineering and I am exploring
modelling the brain as a system using standard systems theory (or not-so-standard
systems theory).  I was wondering if there is any current research being pursued
in this area and if there are any good references (texts, papers...) on this 
subject.  I would appreciate any information at all and I thank you very much
in advance.

			-Scott