From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: Game Management Policies
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 02:29:22 GMT

jhoskins@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James M Hoskins) writes:

>Well, I agree that it doesn't matter if a fawn suffers at
>the paws of a wolf--that is the way of nature.

	Remember this -- it's important.

>If we as humans do not comprehend that our intelligence places us
>(somewhat tragically) both within and removed from nature

	And just *how* are we removed from nature?  We have intelligence
and the abilities that brings about instead of brawn, speed, or natural
weapons.  It seems we must still live within nature, as we have yet to
determine a way of escaping the physical laws that govern this planet.

> then it wouldn't
>matter to you if farm animals are tortured before they are slaughtered

	I'm so damn sick of this claim I'll gladly spit on anybody saying it
in my presence and pay for the dry-cleaning.  What, do you think there is
some farmer in an SS uniform with gleaming denistry instruments saying, "I'm
sorry, but ve are a poor country und haff no money to attach real electrodes
to your testicles before shipping you off to the gas chamber.  Meanwhile,
ve shall extract those nasty wisdom teeth of yours without anaesthetic?"
Perhaps a visit to any ranch or even feedlot would show you that torture is
not on the list of things to do.  For one, it is counter-productive, and
secondly, it doesn't exist unless you start defining torture as any pain or
possible suffering.  You may now draw distinctions between the pain a cow
may suffer for its own good and the pain I shall soon experience under the
care of a surgeon due to another inguinial hernia, and if this is unknown to
you perhaps you can contrast it with the removel of wisdom teeth.  I'd love
to not have to put up with this pain, but it's for my own good and shall
promote my health.  Likewise, inflicting pain on an animal, if it isn't
for their health, just reduces weight gain and is counter-productive.

>, it
>doesn't matter if your son has a cow in your basement that he tortures in the
>evening after school, 

	That's funny, the one in my basement was there to combat pnuemonia
thanks to nature dumping a ffreezing rain on us shortly after the calving
season.  Surely that is the way of nature?

>I believe that animals should
>not suffer--whether we eat them or not.

	As you so cleverly noted above, the wolf doesn't seem to give a whit
about what you believe.  Strangely enough, I'll side with the wolf on this.

>Give Mr. Lawrence a break.  He's healthy and an outdoorsman who likes to
>hike, winter-camp and rock climb.  He's also a damn good writer.  He has a
>perspective on nature that is different from yours.  His only one failing as
>he participates in this forum (and we all have many) is his insistence that
>his way is the way.

	While I agree with the sentiments, might I add that the last sentence
is equally fitting for nearly averybody in this group.  Learn to live with
the fact that not everybody agrees with you.  Russell and I certainly have,
and that includes with each other.

<Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 |"There'll be angels on Ariels in leather>
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu | and chrome, Ridin' down from heaven    >
<viking@iastate.edu      | just to carry me home." -- R. Thompson >
< ISU thinks I need more education, which they provide for a fee. >