From: arnsenad@me.utoronto.ca (Senad Arnautovic)
Subject: Re: Interview with Tanja Petovar
Organisation: U of Toronto, Dept. of Mechanical Engineering
Organization: UofT Mechanical Engineering
Distribution: soc
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:05:15 GMT

sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:

>The following interview appeared in Svenska Dagbladet, a major
>Swedish daily, Tuesday November 3rd. The interview was made by
>Richard Swartz, who has covered Eastern Europe for the account
>of SvD for around 20 years. Translation mine.

>    SvD: How long will this war in the former Yugoslavia continue?
>    Is there any way to stop this at all?

>    In Belgrade, Slobodan Milosevic and his gang have already grabbed 
>    almost everything of value in Serbia.

>    SvD: Does the same thing take place in Croatia?

>    TP: Of course. The process is also in progress in Slovenia, but
>    in far more controlled and legal forms. As a matter of fact it
>    is happening all over Eastern Europe, but in Yugoslavia it is
>    particularly complicated. In other places it was "state property",
>    maffia.

>    SvD: But how has this little group managed to start a war which
>    comprises a lot of people which cannot be counted as members of
>    the maffia?

>    TP: Because the desire to steal is on all levels of the society,
>    and what happens on the bottom is only a reflection of the "re-
>    distribution" which takes place at the top of the society. All
>    these self-declared soldiers really makes a common case with the
>    politicians: they assault a city, burgle into the houses and loots.

>    And there is a lot to steal there; in the West one might not know
>    that an agricultural people like on the Balkan have their money
>    and their gold in the mattress. Never on the bank! History has
>    taught people to not trust the bank. What you own you have at home,
>    sewn into the mattress. And the Yugoslavs were not poor - through
>    tourism and as guest workers they earned to fair deal of money, in
>    difference to other people in other places in Eastern Europe.

>    SvD: But Serbian and Montenegrian soldiers were never into Dubrovnik?

>    TP: No, but the entire beach part around Dubrovnik was looted, almost
>    every private house between Cavat and Trsteno! Thus, here came Monte-
>    negrian soldiers from their poor and sleepy mountain villages and
>    suddenly were to see how people were living with expensive furniture,
>    cars, three TV sets in each house, and the pantry full of ham and
>    cheese. For them it was a shock. And they brought with them every-
>    thing! The stolen property they loaded and bound on their tanks; like 
>    in a film of Bunuel. For me it is therefore not an ethnical war, but
>    a social war.

... stuff deleted ...

>    SvD: Even if this was the correct description of the reality, so
>    does the official rhetorics talk about something different: a
>    national, purely ethnical war.

>    TP: Yes, because there is a need for an alibi. So everyone has been
>    equipped with a splendid ideological excuse: you have a right to
>    kill and besteal someone else, because he is on the wrong side.

>    SvD: Hate between the nations would not have been one of causes
>    behind the war?

>    TP: No, I don't think so. As all multi-national societies ours is
>    naturally more exposed to those who wish to manipulate us, but
>    with the exception of those years during WWII, Serbs and Croats
>    has not really been in a real bloody conflict with each other.
>    The Croat fascism during the war came from the outside; it came
>    to us from Hitler.

>    I think our only authentic national conflict is the one between
>    Serbs and Albanians; these people have never been able to live
>    side by side. Either one has appeared as oppressor or been oppressed.
>    The Serbs may not hate the Albanians, but they regard them as inferior,
>    as second class humans. Now it only remains to see if it this will
>    lead to war or not. Probably Milosevic will in the long run need
>    a war with the Albanians to stay in power.

>    Still we don't know how things will turn out; would the war break
>    out in Kosovo, would this enemyship from several centuries be the
>    exception which prove what I nevertheless perceive as the rule: 
>    ethnical conflicts does not necessarily lead to war. It is instead
>    war which leads to ethnical conflicts.

...  stuff deleted

>    The problem is however that these persons are starting to loose control
>    over the war. Because how do you create so called ethnical hate between
>    people! You send for example Vojislav Seselj's bandits to a village and
>    let them kill a few Croats and Serbs; five doesn't matter much. Revenge
>    is the next step, from a virus you get a epidemic, of the epidemic a
>    disaster.

>    SvD: The war feeds itself.

>    TP: Yes, as I've already have said, the war creates ethnical conflicts,
>    not the opposite. Without the war no hate, without hate no "ethnical
>    cleansing", without "ethnical cleansing" no ethnically "pure" national
>    state. The war is the consciously staged presumption for the national
>    hate between the people and the redistribution of the resources of
>    the society. Who leaves his home and the place there his family has
>    lived for hundreds of year, if his life is not in danger?

>    SvD: It sounds like the war would never end. And as if the plan
>    of the "maffia" would fail nevertheless.

>    TP: In any case, the "cantonization" which seems to be approaching
>    in Bosnia is hardly a step towards a peaceful solution. Disregarding
>    that the "ethnic cleansing" in this way is indirectly accepted, one
>    one giving the war mongers some kind of legitimacy. The same persons
>    who are on good ground suspected for war crimes! None of these local 
>    "leaders" will stand in the lead for anything but a banana republic, 
>    controlled with help of poverty and brutal repression.
>    - Also, their appetite is growing. A Radovan Karadzic or a Goran Hadzic
>    is dreaming of becoming a Milosevic, like Milosevic in dreaming of
>    becoming a Tito. It is very probably that they sooner or later will 
>    clash. And the surrounding world is now prepared to recognize them 
>    internationally. That is not really the way to strengthen democracy
>    on the Balkan.

I am surprised you, who usually promotes pro-Chetnik (Serb extremists)
views, posted this article.
Does it mean that you start to support Bosnians (Muslims,
moderate Serbs and Croats) in their quest to prevent "cantonization"
(that is, partition along ethnic lines) of their country?
Does it mean that this article helped you open the eyes about
who does massive genocide on Bosnian people?

>-- 
>Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se

Senad Arnautovic