HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mitchell@nodecg.ncc.telecomwa.oz.au (Clive Mitchell)
Subject: Re: How to get mouse driver into upper mem?
Organization: Network Computer Centre, Telecom, Perth
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 12:03:33 GMT

In article <9208112306.AA29091@csserver.osf.org> omar@osf.org writes:
>
>   Hi,
>
>   I'm trying to get the Microsoft mouse driver that came with Windows 3.1 to 
>load in umb's or high memory with DOS5.0 but loadhigh doesn't seem to want to 
>put it anywhere but in low mem.  A "mem /c" reveals that it's hogging about
>17K of low mem and reports that there is a block of almost 30K in UMB.  Why
>won't EMM386 load it into the umbs?  I've tried everything (except QEMM ;^).   
>
>   So, if anyone can explain this to me, or if anyone has QEMM for sale or
>trade, let me know.
>
>Thanks,
>Mark
>
>
>

The microsoft mouse driver actually needs something more than 30k to load
but releases half of it when loaded. One way to get it to load is to make
sure you are loading it high before anything else. Once it has loaded the
excess memory is released and available for whatever else you wish to load
high.
-- 
    _--_|\    Clive Mitchell            ph: +61 9 4916384
   /      \   Regional Network Systems  mitchell@ncc.telecomwa.oz.au
>> *_.--._/   Perth , Western Australia
         v
From: Hamish.Moffatt%f3.n30173.z3@cloud.pub.uu.oz.au (Hamish Moffatt)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
Subject: Can I use 8087 on 80286 motherboard?
Date: 13 Aug 92 09:36:23 GMT

In a msg on <Jul 31 20:41>, David L. Miller writes:

 DLM> As I understand it, a 486SX is actually a 486DX with the 
 DLM> coprocessor *disabled*.  I suspect that the 487SX may be 
 DLM> similar.

And the 487SX is a full 486DX, apparently.


Regards,
Hamish
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
Subject: Self designed mouse cursor ?????
From: jordi@sc2a.unige.ch
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:38:19 +0200
Organization: University of Geneva, Switzerland

Hello PC users...

I'm writing a DOS application which works in graphics mode. I use the mouse.

I would like to know if it is possible to change how the mouse pointer looks.
I want the arrow to be a hand or a magnifying glass. Is it possible to
display my self-designed cursor ???

If yes, how can I do or where can I get the information ?

( I use the microsoft mouse.sys driver )

Thanks for any help !

Sincerely,

Steve Jordi                

+-------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Dpt of Geophysics       | Fax: + 41 22 320-5732                        |
| University of Geneva    |                                              |
| 13, Rue des Maraichers  | E-Mail: Internet:   jordi@sc2a.unige.ch      |
| 1211 GENEVA 4           |         Bitnet:     jordi@cgeuge52.bitnet    |
| Switzerland             |         Compuserve: 70143,3056 (once a week) |
+-------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
From: dao4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DONALD A. O'SHALL)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
Subject: Re: Why do people want PD software?
Date: 22 Aug 92 13:13:28 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <r0_nkbg@lynx.unm.edu>, jfreter@triton.unm.edu (The Myth) writes:

>Besides, most commerical software seems to be way over-priced for their per-
>formance.  Look at many games.  I've seen Gunship 2000 (if I remember the
>title correctly) that was $50 when it first came out.  It's now on the <$10
>shelf at several software stores.  It wasn't worth $50 since it had cheesy
>graphis and sound, but it is worth $10.
>

I have always said that the big fault in commercial software distribution is
the lack of someplace to try it out. When I first started in computers, the
University was looking very strongly at a software package that sold for
$4000.00 with any modifications at $400/day plus $25 per change, plus
expenses. Fortunately, I found another University that had laid out the
original $4000 plus $5000 in customization expenses only to find out it STILL
wasn't suitable. They had removed it from the computers and stored the
original disks and were willing to loan me them for one week ( the licensing
agreement would not permit the sale or distribution of the package
second-hand) so that I could try it for myself. No offense to the writers, but
it was garbage as far as our needs were concerned. If I had not found the
other University or they had not been willing to loan the originals for a
week, the only way we could find out that this program which was heavily
promoted, and which a number of customers had spoken highly of, would not suit
our purposes would have been to buy it. We bought another package for "only"
$395 baed on its demo software, and it would have been excellent except that
one field needed to be 4 characters in length rather than the two they had
provided. A Minor change, right? Wrong. The company was UNWILLING to do ANY
modification or customization at any price. Yet it was unusable for us because
of that silly thing, and its purchase could have made me ( having recommended
it ) look really bad if it were not for the fact that I was new to computers
at the time.

-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not licensed to practice Law or Medicine in any State, so my opinions are
just that!         DAo4@NS1.CC.LEHIGH.EDU      (Don)
From: chena@crs.cl.msu.edu (Antony Chen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
Subject: Re: What's the Best PD term program?
Date: 14 Aug 92 22:49:46 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University

rcbi110@muvms3.bitnet (R. ALAN MONROE) writes:


>The subject says it all...  My brother just bought a used xt laptop, and the
>guy gave him QuickLinkII with it, but it is pretty crummy.

>Any recommendations?

Yeah!  Qmodem 5.0 is the BEST.  I used to use Telix and it was ok, but now
I use Qmodem after someone made the suggestion.  Only problem is that Qmodem
and Telix are shareware, but they are better than most commercial comm
programs.  I have people who bought comm programs and after trying Qmodem,
they hate them all.
From: fevrier@sunburn.ec.usf.edu. (Ian Fevrier (EE))
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
Subject: Are Seagate hard drives any good ?
Date: 11 Aug 92 17:53:40 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Univ. of South Florida, College of Engineering



Recently I had a local computer dealer  try to convince me that Seagate
drives are not worth the metal they're built with.

To this date I would have sworn on a Seagate so I'd like to know if I
have just been lucky. 

Have any of you lived through personal experiences that substantiates
this dealers claim ?
Newsgroups: comp.ibm.pc.hardware,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.os.msdos.misc
From: tsuanian@cc.curtin.edu.au
Subject: Re: Optimizing 386SX-16's for Windows
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 06:23:37 GMT

In article <Bsu89r.3K6@cs.dal.ca>, goldrick@ug.cs.dal.ca (Majeed  Goldrick) writes:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I am doing a bit of work for an office with a bunch of 386SX 16MHz machines.
> They are using monochrome monitors (!!!).I would like to get them going on
> some Windows applications, but it would seem to me that this would be 
> extremely slow in the current setup.  The question is - how can I optimize
> these machines for Windows at a reasonable price.  Do I:
O.K my 2 cents worth, note, I'm no expert, but thats never stopped
me before 8-)
> 
> 1) Buy new vga/svga cards/monitors for them - how much faster would
>    this make them?


VGA cards may make the machines more usable, (colors, people like
colors).  SVGA is'nt a good idea, it slows the machines down
by alot, (it needs to squeeze alot more info across the bus than
VGA). As to weather it's cost effective, dunno thats a HCI problem
I think
> 
> 2) Add lots of ram (would RAM + a Cache be a good way to go?)
RAM yes, deffinately RAM, (this is comming from a man who spent
half the night waiting for a 5 min excel tutorial to load on a 
2Mb 386SX).  I suggest at least 4MB if you plan to run any recent
Windows package, e.g W4W 2.0, excel 4.0 etc.  With the price of
RAM nowadays, I think it's the cheapest way to get more speed.
> 
Co-processors?, do you meant maths or graphics/ windows cp_procs?
if you meant the latter I think you're better off getting new
motherboards. reason, to specific and expensive, if you mean
the former, the windows environment uses only integer maths, so
a math coprocessor wont help, (note it will speed up applications
which require real number appilcations though.
> 3) Invest in coprocessors?
> 
> 4) Try something else (suggestions anyone???), or
> 
> 5) Give up and go home?
I really thinks 16MHz SX are still quite usable provided you have
a decent sized hard disk and memory, if all you plan to do are
things like word processing, I say keep'em.
> 
> Please keep in mind that cost IS a factor.  I would appreciate hearing what
> your opinions are - if there is sufficient interest (ie. if this question
> isn't too trivial) I'll summarize on le net.
> 
> 
> Later,
> 
> Majeed.
> 
-- 
 Internet: TSUANIAN@cc.curtin.edu.au
 Bitnet: TSUANIAN%cc.curtin.edu.au@cunyvm.bitnet
 UUCP  : uunet!munnari.oz!cc.curtin.edu.au!TSUANIAN
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
From: ncc1701@madoka.its.rpi.edu (Mark O. Chadwick)
Subject: Re: Unable to undelete
Reply-To: ncc1701@acm.rpi.edu
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:18:22 GMT

Sounds like some of the files were cross-linked.  As long as
they were all deleted, they had equal chance of being recovered
in an "orderly" fashion.  However, once one file that was
cross-linked with another was recovered, the second file
would see part of itself as being allocated, and would
therefore no longer have a good chance at recovery.

-Mark
-- 
---
Mark "Emerson" Chadwick -- ncc1701@acm.rpi.edu    chadwickmo@space.laafb.af.mil
From: axa12@po.CWRU.Edu (Ashok Aiyar)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
Subject: Re: Postscript drawing program for dos or tif->ps converter
Date: 22 Aug 92 03:45:54 GMT
Reply-To: axa12@po.CWRU.Edu (Ashok Aiyar)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


In a previous article, cs191049@cs.brown.edu (Tony Lee) says:

>We're looking for a dos program which can convert tif files to
>postscript or for a drawing program, either pd, shareware, or
>commercial which can generate postscript files directly.
>Something similar to the Unix utility idraw would be nice....
>
>Please post or e-mail directly to
>
>Tony Lee
>cs191049@cs.brown.edu or
>tsl@lems.brown.edu

I do not know if this is of any help, but there is a program 
called Image Alchemy which will convert TIFF files to EPS
files (encapsulated postscript) that are either Preview Type 0
or Type 1.

There is another program called Graphics Workshop which will
go something similar.  You can find them both at SIMTEL20 or
one of it's mirrors.

On wuarchive.wustl.edu look in the directory /mirrors/msdos/graphics
for the files alch16.zip and grfwk61m.zip

Ashok
-- 
                          Ashok Aiyar
   		       axa12@po.cwru.edu
                Visit the IBM-PC Sig on Freenet
From: forest@soda.berkeley.edu (Forest Edward Wilkinson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
Subject: Re: Modem Problems with Windows 3.1
Date: 19 Aug 1992 00:16:07 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu


I'm having a similar problem, though maybe not as severe.

First, the configuration:
Port:    IRQ:    Address:    UART:    Device:
COM1     4       3F8         old      mouse
COM2     3       2F8      NS16550AFN  modem1
COM3     2       3E8         old      none
COM4     5       2E8      NS16550AFN  modem2

Now, whenever I run Telix (a DOS modem program) under Windows 3.1,
and download a file at *any* speed with modem2, putting Telix in
the background causes system slowdowns and infinite errors in
transmission.  This occurs even when telix is the only application
running.  I have checked that both Telix and Windows are aware of
the serial port configuration, and that Telix has higher timeslice
priority than anything else that I'm aware of (150).

The problem does not occur on modem1, or when using Microlink (a
Windows modem program), or when running Telix in the background
with DESQview, even at 14400bps.  I can't get Telix to work on
COM3 under windows at all.

Any ideas?

-- 
Forest Edward Wilkinson
forest@soda.berkeley.edu
Xref: sparky comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc:11761 comp.os.msdos.apps:4460 comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d:3340
From: roy%cybrspc@cs.umn.edu (Roy M. Silvernail)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.os.msdos.apps,comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d
Subject: Re: Why do people want PD software?
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 10:09:19 CDT
Organization: Villa CyberSpace, Minneapolis, MN

bws@ccs.carleton.ca (Brian Sullivan) writes:

> P.S.
> While we are at it does, anyone know of any PD multi user games for 
> DOS. I'm thinking of something like conquest on UNIX. While it is PD on 
> UNIX, the author will not permit ports to DOS (Sigh ...)

That's self-contradictory.  If the software has been placed in the
public domain (the traditional meaning of PD), then the author has given
up any rights of control.  If the author retains copyright, such that he
can control derivitave works (like a port to DOS), then the software is
not in the public domain.  Intellectual property is not limited by
hardware platform.
--
Due to failure of my mail connection, please use the following emergency
                          addresses to reply:
roy%cybrspc@tfsquad.mn.org   cybrspc!roy@tfsquad.mn.org   roy@tfsquad.mn.org
From: leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
Subject: Re: How do I send a binary file to a printer?
Date: 18 Aug 92 01:28:23 GMT
Reply-To: 70465.203@compuserve.com
Distribution: na
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.

thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu (T. Scott Thompson) writes:

>Several posters have given _almost_ correct answers to this.  When you
>get the file onto the computer with the "good" printer you should use

>        copy <yourfilename> prn /b
>           
>Note the /b switch at the end!  If you leave it off then DOS will copy
>bytes until it encounters a control-Z (end-of-file) character.  Since
>the file might be in a binary format, this is not what you want.
>(Believe me!  I speak from experience on this one.)  When you use /b
>then DOS ignores control-Z's in the file, and copies the number of
>bytes recorded in the filesize field in the directory entry for
><yourfilename>.

It's best to put the /b immediately after the copy. In some environments
the /a and /b switches only affect the files that *follow* them!

Also, even worse than ^Z, is the way DOS will cheerfully translate
^I characters to the "appropriate" number of spaces! In a binary
file that is a *real* disaster!

-- 
Leonard Erickson		      leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com
CIS: [70465,203]			 70465.203@compuserve.com
FIDO:   1:105/51	 Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org
(The CIS & Fido addresses are preferred)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,netcom.software.ibm-pc
From: ladasky@netcom.com (John J. Ladasky II)
Subject: Sources for ARC/ZOO/LHARC?
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 10:00:14 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

Hi!

	I'm trying to find one of the following compression/decompression
utilities for the PC.

	ZOO 2.1
	LHARC
	ARC

	I'd especially like to find ARC.  Could some gracious netter kindly
direct me to the nearest archive site?  Thanks in advance!

-- 
=============================================================================
 John J. Ladasky II ("ii")				(ladasky@netcom.COM)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Great composers do not borrow - they steal."  - John Ladasky		~ -	
(At the urging of fellow netter Lon Amerman, I stole the above		o o
 quote from Igor Stravinsky, who stole it from a statement made		 >
 by Pablo Picasso about painting, who stole it from...)			\_/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Talking about music is like dancing about architecture." - Elvis Costello(?)
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
From: gettys@regent.enet.dec.com (Bob Gettys)
Subject: Re: Need help with Chicony motherboard
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 00:56:21 GMT


In article <Bt7095.51y@news.larc.nasa.gov>, dmk@air16.larc.nasa.gov (Dan M. Koppen) writes...
>Hi netters,
>   About six months ago, I bought a used Chicony model CH-386S-16D
>motherboard with 4 Mbytes of DRAM. It has space for 4 more Mbytes
>of SIMMs, but when I installed the SIMMs nothing happened (I still
>had only 4 Mbytes). When I take the DRAMs out the board senses the
>SIMMs, so I know the SIMMs are good. Moving jumpers 21-26 does
>nothing (jumpers 21-26 set up the SIMMS to be either bank 0-1 or
>bank 2-3 depending on the existense of DRAMs, the DRAMs _must_ be
>banks 0-1).
>   I have looked all through the Chicony manual and can not find a
>mailing address or phone number anywhere. Could some kind netter
>help me (if they have a similar board)? Or at least send me 
>information on how to contact the company? I strongly suspect I need
>a BIOS upgrade.
> 
>Thanks,
>Daniel Koppen
>dmk@air31.larc.nasa.gov


	I used to have the same board and I started with simms and added the
dips. All I needed to do (I hope I'm remembering correctly) was to make sure
that those jumpers were set properly. I do know that all the info was in the
manual, but it might have been a bit obscure. Chicony does have a US office,
but I don't know how to contact them. BTW - any Chicony product is made by the
same company and an address for any of them should be able get you the info on
another division. 

	The only other problem might be that I have found that you sometimes
need to boot more than once to get the post to set the right values into the
cmos. Just do it a few times in a row following the instructions to
go through the setup procedure without changing any hardware. You could also
try doing the settings yourself if that was possible - I don't remember.

	/s/	Bob Gettys
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
From: rjones@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Ronald Jones)
Subject:  Games in OS/2!
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 02:15:39 GMT

If you want information on running games in OS/2 I suggest you
download the file GAMES10.TXT 


ftp to   ftp-os2.nmsu.edu

its in the pub/os2/2.0/info  directory I think.


-- 
 < Ron Jones                   |    E-mail:       rj+@osu.edu   > 
 < The Ohio State University   |    Office:      (614) 292-1665 >
 < 338 West Tenth Avenue       |    FAX:(9-5PM)  (614) 292-7151 > 
 < Columbus, Ohio 43210        |        "eschew obfuscation"    >
From: mwitt@ogicse.cse.ogi.edu (Mike Witt)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
Subject: Anyone ever had this mouse problem?
Date: 16 Aug 92 02:08:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.41491
Distribution: world
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR


Every once in a while, and it seems to be getting more
frequent, I'm just sitting there and the cursor "drops"
to bottom of the screen for no reason.  This happens
independent of what application is active, or any other
circumstances that I can think of.  It's really a drag
when I'm selecing text!

Has anyone ever had this problem?  Is it likely to be
just a defective mouse? 

-Mike
From: jliukkon@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Juha-Matti Liukkonen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
Subject: Re: Unable to load drivers in UMB
Date: 14 Aug 92 21:56:27 GMT
Distribution: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
Organization: University of Helsinki

In <1992Aug14.020418.1@draco.rutgers.edu> zhhu@draco.rutgers.edu writes:

>I have a 386/25MHz machine on which I was not able to load the MOUSE driver
>into the upper memory area. The Microsoft mouse driver has a size of 55kB
>While the resident part is only 16.7kb. There are 28.4kb free UMB, but I 
>have been not able to load the Mouse driver into that UMB. I tried both 
>Devicehigh or Loadhigh, and even specified the size in Devicehigh command.
>Non of them worked. Would some wise gentlmen advise me what is wrong?

EMM386 is what's wrong. It's not smart enough to understand the resizing
after initialization; I'd strongly suggest that you get QEMM386 or a
similar product. Another very good one is shareware UMBDRVR, but it
doesn't give you EMS. Either way, you'll get pretty certainly some 100K
more UMB space as well. I have both QEMM and UMBDRVR, and it's nice to
have Stacker, mouse & the rest of 'em up high. 623K free conventional
memory is a handy thing to have! (BTW, UMBDRVR doesn't even slow down
your computer, and even QEMM has considerably less overhead than
EMM386.)

-- 
               Juha Liukkonen, aka jliukkon@cc.helsinki.fi
       University of Helsinki, Dept. of Paranormal Investigations
           "Trust me, I know what I'm doing." - Sledge Hammer
From: etnbkkc@pluto.etn.ericsson.se (Karlsen Bjorn)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
Subject: Re: Anyone ever had this mouse problem?
Date: 17 Aug 92 14:19:48 GMT
Reply-To: etnbkkc@etn.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Telecom AS

>Every once in a while, and it seems to be getting more
>frequent, I'm just sitting there and the cursor "drops"
>to bottom of the screen for no reason.  This happens
>independent of what application is active, or any other
>circumstances that I can think of.  It's really a drag
>when I'm selecing text!
>
>Has anyone ever had this problem?  Is it likely to be
>just a defective mouse? 

I had the same problem when I used the wrong driver with my mouse.
I used a Microsoft driver with a Mouse Systems mouse. When I got
the correct driver, the problem went away.

Maybe you should try to update your mouse driver?

>-Mike

-KKC-  etnbkkc@etn.ericsson.se
From: tominatr@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
Subject: WANTED: IBM programs written in BASIC
Date: 15 Aug 92 22:44:45 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

WANTED:

Any IBM programs written in BASIC.

E-mail PTINGLEY@AC.DAL.CA if you wish to sell.

        - Tom N.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.os.msdos.misc,comp.os.msdos.apps,comp.binaries.ibm.pc.wanted
From: dman@netcom.com (Dallman Ross)
Subject: Re: Need help with old program
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 22:04:04 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

If you can't get hold of Laplink, get a null-modem cable and either use
a communications software package to transfer stuff or use the DOS COPY
or XCOPY command.

--
 __D_a l_l m a_n  _ R o_s s _ |dman@netcom.com  /or/  |"You sound like a man|
 l  \\ l\\   /l  /\\  l\\   l |dross@well.sf.ca.us    |with a rubber nose." |
 l   >)l \\ /ll /  \\ l \\  l |vox/fax: 1.510.645.1883| -- One-Lung Bill    |
 l  // l  \X ll/--- \\l  \\ l |350 Perkins St., #108  |     Remmer (deceased)
_l//______________________\\l_|Oakland,_CA__94610-3422|_____________________|_
Xref: sparky comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc:11589 misc.forsale.computers:30109
From: art+@andrew.cmu.edu (Arthur W. Wetzel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,misc.forsale.computers
Subject: Wanted Perstor PS200 disk controller
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:29:44 GMT
Organization: Software Development, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

I am looking for a used Perstor PS200 disk controller with documentation
and installation software.

Note: this is the higher density/speed 10MBPS model not the PS180
9MBPS model.  I have a couple of disks which work just fine with the
PS180 but would like to use the additional 11% storage capacity given by
the PS200 if the price is right.
Art Wetzel
art+@andrew.cmu.edu
412-268-6994
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
From: roeschmf@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Martin F. Roesch)
Subject: Re: THE MOST TASTELESS OS (MSDOS)
Keywords: Unknown
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 05:06:55 GMT

Who the hell let Mr BARR--NUNN out of alt.tasteless to bug us?  Go away...

   Marty
     roeschmf@craft.camp.clarkson.edu