From: maxtal@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (John MAX Skaller)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: approach
Date: 30 Jul 1992 22:09:34 GMT
Organization: MAXTAL P/L C/- University Computing Centre, Sydney
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

In article <CINDY.92Jul24120017@meshugge.media.mit.edu> uunet!mailrus!gatech!mit-eddie!meshugge.media.mit.edu!cindy@ncar.ucar.EDU (Cindy Blank-Edelman) writes:
>Dano writes:
>
>> This really becomes an interesting question: is there any way
>> a heterosexual man 'may' approach a woman with the idea of finding
>> out if she is interested in romance, that *couldn't* be
>> construed as a harrassment, however slight? I think the case
>> can easily be made that there is no way to accomplish this
>> at least on a ethical-standard-for-all lever, probably because
>> we are each far too individual to put up with something like that.
>
>I believe that polite approaches to women to ask them out for a date
>would not be construed as harrassing most of the time.  The problem
>arises (I think) when such an approach takes place in an inappropriate
>setting -- at work, or from a teacher to a student.  

	Is this an example of women trying to preserve their sexual
dominance? Whats wrong with an approach at work? I mean, since
men traditionally spend so much time at work, and that is where they
might meet women, why disbar conversation that happens to be personal?

	I dont think there are inappropriate places to meet people,
you meet them whever you go. And often the opportunities are fleeting.

	And why specify "romance"? The biggest myth of all time.
The sooner the oppressive Romantic myth is exploded, and its
stereotypes exposed, the sooner we can begin to really communicate.

>In arenas like
>these where women are still fighting to be taken seriously, it would
>be much more difficult to indicate a romantic interest without
>harrassment.  

	Do you mean sexual interest? Oh, and if I just say I'm
interested in you, how can that possibly be harrassment?
Even if you're not feeling like talking to me, I have to be
persistent to harrass you, surely. 

	If I look at you asyou walk down the street, how can
that possibly be harrassment?

	I think these are cases where women feel uncomfortable
with their sexual dominance. So here is a case where being
dominant is not an advantage.

>Certainly, in these settings a man should take a "no" to
>be final, and not continue to approach the woman romantically.  

	Why? How do you dare to tell me I must accept womens
traditional power base as final and absolute after invading
*mens* traditional power base (the work place).

	People change their minds. Women traditionally
say "no" automatically, even if they're interested.
Dont forget that in the "romantic" myth, it is the 
persistence of the Knight that finally wins the Maiden's
hand (or is it something else than her hand :-)

>(This
>is true for other situations as well, but I think there is a little
>more leeway.)
>
>I also think that not all women expect to be asked out anymore, and
>many do the asking themselves.

	They *have* to. Men are too scared to ask them :-)

	Sometimes they even make the first sexual advances.

	Is that because they are more enlightened or men more
	concerned they will offend by making their feelings
	known prematurely?

-- 
;----------------------------------------------------------------------
        JOHN (MAX) SKALLER,         maxtal@extro.ucc.su.oz.au
	Maxtal Pty Ltd, 6 MacKay St ASHFIELD, NSW 2131, AUSTRALIA
;--------------- SCIENTIFIC AND ENGINEERING SOFTWARE ------------------


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