From: ltchean@rambutan.iss.nus.sg (Lim Thye Chean)
Subject: Re: Which language?
Reply-To: ltchean@iss.nus.sg (Lim Thye Chean)
Organization: Institute of Systems Science, NUS, Singapore
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 03:43:15 GMT

First. let me thank you for answering (part of) my questions...

In article <1992Dec23.130559.23343@actrix.gen.nz> David.Empson@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes:

>Either Pascal or C should be OK for writing games.  Ideally you would
>want to write the complicated parts in a high-level language, and the
>parts that need to go fast in assembly language.

>This means you should consider which assemblers and compilers can be
>used together, in mixed-language programming.  The ORCA products
>(ORCA/M, ORCA/C and ORCA/Pascal) are good for this.


Is there any high level language animation toolkit around? Of course, in
assembly language, I have written Super Magic 3, in C, I have seen Jawaid's
sprites, but what interest me most is those offered in Super Basic (a 
shareware that allows Applesoft programmer to draw graphics and perform
animation in Super Hires), but unfortunately, I am no longer an Applesoft
programmer, and am not turning back.

I wish Jawaid can finish that program. It seems very interesting.


>Desktop programming isn't "easy" in any language, but is much easier
>in C or Pascal than it is in assembly language.  I haven't tried Micol
>Advanced Basic, but have written desktop programs in ORCA/C, APW C,
>ORCA/M and Merlin Assembler.  My preference is for C.


Anybody knows about Micol Advance Basic? Is it System 6 compatible? Is it
fast and easy to use? Something like Micol Advance Basic is very attractive
to an Applesoft fan like me. But I did not see anybody using it.

Anybody has seen Complete Pascal II?


>If you're going to do any serious desktop programming, you must get
>all three volumes of the IIgs Toolbox Reference.  If you want to use
>System 6 features, you also need to get the System 6 Programmers
>Reference (by Byte Works).  All are available by mail order from
>Resource Central (and possibly other sources).


What if I am doing "non-serious" desktop programming? OK, I have a real world
job as a software engineer, I do programming everyday, but I can't do too
much on my beloved GS. I am actually only interested to write some games or
mini-applications.

Learning all 3 volumes of the IIGS toolbox references is definitely too
much for a weekend GS programmer like me...


>You may also like to consider the Byte Works "Toolbox Programming in
>Pascal" or "Toolbox Programming in C" packages.  They are pretty much
>identical, but targeted toward the appropriate language (you wouldn't
>want to get both of them).


What exactly does the "Toolbox Programming..." series has to offer?


>Current versions of ORCA/M, ORCA/C and ORCA/Pascal include interface
>files for System 6.0.
>
>If you don't know any C, you will have a bit of learning to do before
>you will achieve much.  Since you know Pascal, you're about half way there.


Oh, I am a C programmer for half a year, writing XWindow/Motif application
before I switch to the language Starship (an object oriented language)
for programming. I have learned at least 12 more other languages, so there
should not be a problem.

My problem is to use the toolbox. Writing Motif program is easy, but I can't
say the same for Mac/GS toolbox enviroment. I am actually looking for
languages that can help me on that. 


>You probably don't need the toolbox references to write very simple
>desktop programs, but having them makes everything much easier.  You
>don't need to LEARN them, just have them handy for reference when you
>need to know how to use a call.


Thanks for that. If I have the money to spend, I might consider buying them.
Right now, I am saving up for TurboRez, perhaps I will write a TurboMagic for
that board, or even a game. Oh, thinking of writing a game, I will like to
buy a new language (Both TML Pascal II and Orca/M is not really suitable for
me).


>You may find it easier to learn toolbox programming using a Pascal
>compiler, as you're already familiar with Pascal.  Either TML Pascal
>or ORCA/Pascal should be OK.


Why people prefer to use Orca/C instead of Orca/Pascal? Is it because the
C language is better? faster? or what? 


>ORCA/C 2.0 hasn't been released yet, and I haven't seen the release
>note, so I don't know if they've included any more programs with it.
>
>ORCA/C 1.3 included the ORCA text shell and PRIZM desktop shell
>interface (with source level debugging), ORCA/C compiler, libraries and
>interface (header/include) files.  There was no resource editor or
>similar.


Does Prizm actually work? I have heard that it is not compatible with GNO
right?


>ORCA/C 2.0 might include the REZ resource compiler (which was supplied
>with ORCA/M 2.0).  Byte Works also sell a resource creator called
>Design Master.  I use REZ and Genesys for resource work.  [I hope to
>be using Foundation shortly.]


Is REZ resource compiler hard to use? Do I really need a resource editor if
I have REZ?


>-- 
>David Empson


-- 
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