HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kolstad@cae.wisc.edu (Joel Kolstad)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Re: The "high price" of the HP48!
Date: 1 Jan 93 18:13:01 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering

Hi Paul,

In article <PHR.92Dec31210006@napa.telebit.com> phr@telebit.com (Paul Rubin) writes:

>   P.S. -- The prices above are somewhat speculative.  "Decent"
>   computers could range all the way from $1500 386SX boxes to $10000
>   workstations, whereas "decent" calculators could range from $100
>   TI-81's to $500 fully-outfitted HP-48's.
>
>The computer prices you cite are way too high.  I don't think there
>are any $10k single-seat workstations in the company where I work, and
>we are a full blown development shop (hardware and software).  

I'll take one of these HP Snake workstations with 25" color monitors we
have here at school.  With a 500mb drive and, oh, 64mb of RAM, I think the
price can easily be well above $10K :-).

> You can
>quite easily get a 386sx box in the $500 range and I've scrounged
>together XT and 286 machines for as little as $100.

XT's are ridiculous for running modern software (Mathematica, Derive).
286's are sometimes OK if you don't mind waiting awhile and don't need to use
the machine that often.  I think it's a disservice to recommend anything
less than a 386SX to someone trying to do serious engineering or science
work, though.  Typically "cheap" 386SX boxes with hard drives and monitors
go for about $1K.  And these really are CHEAP PCs -- flimsy keyboards, huge
dot pitch monitors, etc.  Definitely not HP (or even TI or Casio) quality!
Also, software for that PC of yours is going to run you at least another
$100 for MathCAD, Mathematica, etc. -- and those are often the student versions.

>  I don't know what
>a TI-81 is but I think my (now dead) HP25 was a more than powerful
>enough calculator for nearly any student, and the 42S that replaced it
>with is more powerful than I've ever had a need for that any
>calculator could fill.  

I think you're projecting what _you_ found adequate onto "nearly any
student."  Given that I have a HP-48 that I use regularily, I'd feel
extremely constrained if I could _only_ use a 42S.  (I do also own a 32S-II
which I use a lot, though.)

					---Joel Kolstad
From: jayward@rigel.cs.pdx.edu (Jay Ward)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Re: Using programmable calcs in exams
Date: 29 Dec 92 01:32:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: pdxgate.6621

lemson@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (David Lemson) writes:

>On another note, a math professor I know who markets a math course
>taught on Mathematica tells me that the HP people give some schools
>a classroom full of HP high-end calculators, in order to teach
>engineering and math with them.  They are developing programs like
>this.  Sorry, I did not get any school names but I could ask if
>anyone is realy interested.

Here at Portland State University there is a pilot program that teaches
Calculus with he HP-48.  I took it for two terms and enjoyed it.  Since most
people who spend alot of time with math have a machine anyway, I think that
it is beneficial to learn how to use a machine to its potential.

The curriculum is being written by a professor at Oregon State University
I believe.  I'm sorry I don't have any more details.


          ||  Jay Ward || jayward@rigel.cs.pdx.edu  || 
          ||=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-||
          ||        Portland State University       ||
          ||            Portland, Oregon            ||
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
From: phr@telebit.com (Paul Rubin)
Subject: Re: The "high price" of the HP48!
Organization: Telebit Corporation; Sunnyvale, CA, USA
	<PHR.92Dec25155736@napa.telebit.com>
	<1992Dec26.052935.17881@doug.cae.wisc.edu>
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 06:02:40 GMT

In article <1992Dec26.052935.17881@doug.cae.wisc.edu> kolstad@cae.wisc.edu (Joel Kolstad) writes:
   In article <PHR.92Dec25155736@napa.telebit.com> phr@telebit.com (Paul Rubin) writes:
   >    I agree.  I do not understand those who buy the Casios and the TIs because
   >    the 48 is just "too expensive".
   >
   >I felt that paying my rent was more important than having a fancy
   >calculator.  

   Paying tuition for a four year public college is going to run you at least
   $10,000.  Four year tuition at, say, MIT can easily run you $75,000.

Are you suggesting that since you're already facing crushing bills
from tuition, you might as well drop another $200+ for a flashy
calculator?  By that logic you might as well buy a house now,
given what your rent payments are going to add up to over the
next few decades.  Clearly you have no experience of the economic
realities faced by most college students.  Most are more concerned
with how they're going to pay for next week's groceries than
whether their calculator can outcompute a Vax 780 or only a Vax 750.
From: jboleman@ub.d.umn.edu (Jeffrey K. Boleman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: KEYBOARD
Date: 31 Dec 1992 00:26:37 -0600
Organization: University of Minnesota, Duluth
NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu

STICKY SOUNDING KEYS

My keys on my HP48sx have been a bit "sticky".  It's hard to describe,
the keys don't actually stick but the ussual clicking noise in many of
my frequently used keys tends to sound, well "sticky".  I have run the
diagnostic test on my keys and everything is normal, but I am still
concerned.  I have never spilled anything on it and I always store it
in its case when not in use.  My roommate had the same problem with his
that he finally exchanged it for a new on at the store he purchased it at.
Any suggestions?   Feel free to E-mail me.

cheers, eh,
JB
From: clemon@lemsys.UUCP (Craig Lemon VE3XCL)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Re: What is Version J?>??>?>?>???
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 10:41:26 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Private UUCP "Twig" Node
X-Newsreader: Arn V1.00

In article <72543@cup.portal.com>, Jake G Schwartz writes:

> On 12/23/92 Gerry Vahe wrote:
> -----------------------------------------
> I just bought an hp48s from service merchandise.  I was reading a faq list and 
> it told me how to prompt the hp for the version letter.
> I received a VERSION J
> I have been noticing the latest version is "E"
> Should I return it???
> -----------------------------------------
> Okay, now that rev. J is out on the street, would anyone in the know who
> reads this area care to tell us the differences between rev. E and rev J??
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jake Schwartz

        Well here is the rumour post from a while ago :

>Kevin Jessup asks about rev F.  There won't be one.  However...
>
>*** NEW HP 48 ARRIVING REAL SOON NOW ***
>
>HP Corvallis has heard students' cries, and after long discussions
>with the College Board and Educational Testing Services (the folks who
>write all the significant tests), they've come up with a fascinating
>solution that will let students use their beloved HP 48 on any and all
>tests.
>
>Rumor has it that the "J" revision HP 48, which will be "very visible
>as such", will have an "Exam Mode" that will allow it to be used
>during school tests.  It seems that the teacher will be able to press
>some keys to start exam mode, which asks for how many minutes the mode
>should be active.  The machine will then proceed to lock out *all*
>access to the VAR menu and *all* the symbolic math functions (e.g. the
>SOLVE and PLOT applications) for that many minutes, and then exit exam
>mode and behave normally.
>
>It made me laugh, thinking of Rick Grevelle's FALSECLR program that
>faked an ON-A-F Memory Clear, but my impeachable source tells me that
>exam mode is "unbreakable".  What a challenge!  Even if exam mode
>can't be broken out of, certainly *getting into it* can be faked in a
>sufficiently convincing manner!  I was told No, They Can't.
>
>Humph.  We'll see.
>
>The above is 100% rumor only, and is subject to change without notice
>or reason.
>
>>-Joseph K. Horn-    -Nondisclosure?  What nondisclosure?-
>
>Joey: New plotting functions?  Faster EqationWriter & MatrixWriter?
>      Built-in HP Solve Equations Card?  Built-in video games?
>      Active matrix color LCD?  Laser IO?  Holographic projector?
>      Bidirectional packet radio?  And price reduced to $99.95?
>      Can it be true???  Huh???  Huh???  Huh???
>
>Roo-man ignores Joey.
>

        I know this isn't the end-all be-all but many may have forgotten or
have never seen this post (it's from a while ago) so here it is.

--
 Craig Lemon VE3XCL (Advanced) - Kitchener, Ontario. +1 519 741 0297
 clemon@lemsys.UUCP clemon%lemsys@xenitec.on.ca  | 1B Electrical Engineering
 TCP/IP: ve3xcl@ve3xcl.ampr.org [44.135.84.51]   |  University of Waterloo
 AX.25 Packet: ve3xcl@ve3euk.#SWON.ON.CAN.NA     | Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
From: anthony@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Anthony J Stieber)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Re: The "high price" of the HP48!
Date: 1 Jan 1993 18:51:28 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <PHR.92Dec31122958@napa.telebit.com> phr@telebit.com (Paul Rubin) writes:

>For someone who likes calculators so much you seem to be pretty loose
>with numbers.  Where can I get an HP48 for $140?  (Remember this is
>about HP48's, not cheaper calculators).  Weren't you saying a minute

HP-48S, $154.95 from EduCALC, less from ElekTek.  It has all the
features of the HP-48SX except for the two card slots.

>Yes, my school provides computers for general use, but having one
>at home is a big improvement.  

A pocket computer is a computer at home, and everywhere else.  The
cost of a powerful calculator is the choice between getting a laser
printer or something else, or getting high speed modem, or a larger
hard drive.
--
<-:(= Anthony Stieber	anthony@csd4.csd.uwm.edu   uwm!uwmcsd4!anthony
From: Timm_Ganske@f.maus.de (Timm Ganske)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Re: <--- need to know basics o
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 20:15:00 GMT
Organization: MausNet (Mitglied im IN e.V.)
X-Gateway: MausGate/News 1.14D/hb

>HP diagnostic for "d=a a", "Invalid mnemonic", is not very
>helpful at all.

It is helpful enough! Don't criticize something you aren't using!

>context-free grammar, it is much easier for me to read, since
>opcodes and operands are more clearly separated.

I think it difficult to read and even harder to write, because I learned
68000-assembler and I find it confusing to use similar mnemonics with
different registers and adressing modes.

>Why use the manufacturer's mnemonic set if you find it complex
>and confusing, and a more comprehensible alternative exists?  I

Detlef doesn't find it confusing, I don't find it confusing, and you may use
the AG-notation, ok? We don't have to argue about it, I think it's time that
someone writes a converter ...

Bye,
 Timm
From: mheiskan@hut.fi (Mika Heiskanen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Re: Bin or ASCII in FTP
Date: 02 Jan 93 20:17:51 GMT
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Distribution: inet
Reply-To: mheiskan@vipunen.hut.fi
NNTP-Posting-Host: lk-hp-9.hut.fi
In-reply-to: twh18@isuvax.iastate.edu's message of Sat, 2 Jan 1993 16:37:26 GMT


In article <C08JIF.Go4@news.iastate.edu> twh18@isuvax.iastate.edu (Phoenix) writes:

[...]
>FTP?  I mean, does it matter if I use ASCII mode to DL a
>binary file from FTP, then use binary mode to get it on my
>HP48SX?

Better use binary mode with with FTP. Time to repost this hint I guess:

----------------------------CLIP-----------------------------------------------
machine seq.uncwil.edu       login anonymous password mheiskan@vipunen.hut.fi
macdef init
cd hp48
binary
prompt

----------------------------CLIP-----------------------------------------------

Replace my email address with your own, name the file ".netrc" and execute
"chmod og-rwx .netrc" Then every time you start normal ftp you are
automatically logged in, put into /hp48 directory and binary mode is set.
Also prompt mode is turned off so "mget *" gets all without prompting for each
file. You can add similar macros for other ftp places, but remember to put the
blank line in between since it marks the end of a macro. The macro doesn't
work with ange-ftp although you get "file-name-completion" when starting dired
on /seq.

You might also want to add something like this to the end..

default                      login anonymous password mheiskan@vipunen.hut.fi

..and you won't have to type login/password with ftp anymore.

For more info please don't ask me, use the magic words "man ftp" instead :)

--
--> mheiskan@vipunen.hut.fi
From: akcs.mmorgan@hpcvbbs.cv.hp.com (Captain Morgan)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 21:40:01 GMT
Subject: Same old questions...
Message-ID: <2b3e1774.2519comp.sys.hp48@hpcvbbs.cv.hp.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48

Why not send the following message every 10 messages automatically?
 
Before you post, read the FAQ.  It is located....
From: george@ucs.ubc.ca (George Chow)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: HP48 + RPL + stereo system = super duper alarm clock
Followup-To: comp.sys.hp48
Date: 22 Dec 1992 06:56:50 GMT
Organization: University Computing Services, UBC, Canada
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: swiss.ucs.ubc.ca

Howdy,
  This posting is motivated mainly by me finally managing to get David
  Marsh's sampling IR remote program working. (One important key to the
  sampling remote is the string size. With a 2000 space string, the sample
  was unreliable. I finally managed to capture my Technics remote with a
  string of length 2500.) A big thanks also goes to Bjorn Gahm for doing the 
  code-based IR remote program. Thanks to them and a bit of RPL work on my 
  part, I now have an alarm clock that turns my stereo system on every work 
  day morning. I'm just polishing up the program right now. Since I think 
  a few other people might enjoy this program too, I'm gonna solicit some 
  comments and ask a few questions before releasing it.

  Current features:
    o configurable wake-up time (separate time for each day of the week)
    o can skip alarm on holiday days (currently, only public Canadian 
      holidays are known. if someone can give me the American holidays I
      would be willing to incorporate them.)
    
  Question:
    o I don't know how to compute Easter. Can anyone help? I've got an
      old posting from a David Turrell listing some references for the
      computation of Easter. However, I have no access to the material
      listed. (Most of them are from the PPC.) Can anyone point me to a
      readily accessible source? Pseudo-code would be appreciated too. :)
    o Have people been successful with Rick Grevelle's version of the
      sampling remote program (remote2)? I experimented with remote and
      remote2 but only managed to get remote to work. Alternatively, how
      do I compress the string from remote for use with remote2?

George

Lines: 292
From: willt@ocf.berkeley.edu (William Ting)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48,comp.sys.handhelds,ba.market.misc,ba.market.computers,ca.wanted,ucb.wanted,ucb.general
Subject: >> HP48SX For Sale: $199 including S&H <<
Date: 21 Dec 1992 18:19:34 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: lightning.berkeley.edu



I have a HP48SX in mint condition for sale for $199 including S&H.
If interested, contact Will at willt@ocf.berkeley.edu or
wting@ucsee.berkeley.edu.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
From: kolstad@cae.wisc.edu (Joel Kolstad)
Subject: Re: The "high price" of the HP48!
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Distribution: usa
Date: 2 Jan 93 18:34:59 CST

In article <1993Jan2.162642.6078@ncsu.edu> cdmckinn@eos.ncsu.edu (CHARLES DOUGL MCKINNON) writes:
>In article <1i3lp6INNd1k@gaia.ucs.orst.edu> petersok@ucs.orst.edu (Ken Peterson) writes:
>>
>>Stop the madness.
>
>I agree totally.  If people want to keep slamming the hp, please do so via
>e-mail and stop wasting bandwidth.

Ok, this will be my last post and then I'll shut up since it's clearly no
longer in many people's interest to follow this little discussion.

Now then...

I think the 48 has enough merit to recommend that engineers and scientists
buy it for their classes.  I think the 48 can serve a useful purpose that
PCs, including portable ones such as the 95, cannot -- that of providing an
operating _environment_ that I believe is much more conducive to class work
than the PCs, running any software, provide.  I know my 48 has saved me
considerable amounts of time in the past, and I know it will continue to do
so.  My 48, I believe, is one of the best investments I've made in my own
education -- even better than the investment I've made in a desktop
computer.

I do think that science/engineering students should have access to PCs before 
they bother which high end calculators, but I don't think PC access is a
problem that many scientists/engineers face.

I can fully understand that people such as Paul Rubin cannot find a place
for high end calaculators in being more productive than with a PC, but I
still contend that that place exists, and that I and many others have found
it.

That's it.  No more (publically) from me on this subject... e-mail me if
you want to discuss it further.

						---Joel Kolstad
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48

      RE:ROM Data to a RAM Card

There is no difficulty porting the data to a card.  I've used several
programs that do it no sweat.  The trouble is you can end-up with an
unstable system.  The ROM memory on the TDS Structural Analysis worked
fine on my 512k card until it totally crashed.

I think it's really too bad that companies aren't offering these cards on
disk for those of us who invested in the 512k card.  Yanking cards during
exams or in dirty lab environments does not appeal to me, and actually
just makes me nervous.

I know some serious HP48 programmers wouldn't need that kind of memory
and may not imagine too many people using the 512k cards.  As a Civil
Engineering student I take a lot of open anything exams and programs such
as QED-as a database-, SmartROM's spreadsheet, HP's EQ library, TDS'
Structural Analysis Card, and my own give me an enjoyable and, I think,
deserved advantage on exams and homework.  If companies were a bit more
sensitive to those who really benifit from the latest advances we could
all be better off.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
From: twh18@isuvax.iastate.edu (Phoenix)
Subject: HP48 file transfer.  ASCII or Binary?
Reply-To: twh18@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 20:51:55 GMT

	I was try to transfer the TRon to my HP48 from my computer.
I saved the tron file from this newsgroup to my VMS/VAX account.
Then, I edited file so only the ASCII part is there.  I then
seted up kermit to transfer it to my HP48.  I have already
transferd directories like Tetris to from HP48 to computer
and back with no problem.  Meanwhile, My HP48 have about 2.8K
left, which is enough for the 1.9k Tron.
	I started to transfer, and whenver it gets to packet
161, it goes "insufficnent memory"!  Now, I wonder why.
I tried to transfer it 3 times,(useing binary mode).
Then, I tried to use ASCII mode, still says insufficent memory.
Can anyone tell me why?
	Also, what's mode I am suppose to use when to transfer
file between HP and the computer?  The instruction book says
use ASCII though it's slower.  But someone already suggested
me to use binary to avoid errors.  I am confused, please help.
	Thanks in advance!
				Ming
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
From: safley@stsci.edu
Subject: Re: The "high price" of the HP48!
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 22:58:10 GMT

In article <PHR.92Dec31125342@napa.telebit.com>, phr@telebit.com (Paul Rubin) writes:
> 
> I'm still waiting to hear about how many uses there are for the 48
> that fit all these qualifications:
> 	- the 48 is better for the purpose than a cheap scientific calculator
> 	- the 48 is better for the purpose than a a 95LX
> 	- the 48 is better for the purpose than a full-sized personal computer
> 	- the user is a typical college student
> 

Uhhh, how about playing Tetris or Pacman during class?
;)

William Safley
CSC/Space Telescope Science Institute
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
From: ori@marvin.technion.ac.il (Ori Degani)
Subject: Fourier, Signals, functions
Organization: Heart of Gold Institute
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 02:12:06 GMT

Hi, Did anyone program any Furier / Signal / Transformation functions 
for the hp?  I need them symbolic (analytic) not numeric.

--
   |  ----      Ori Degani
   |  |___      ori@eddie.technion.ac.il   (Ship Computer on the HOG)
   |  |         ori@marvin.technion.ac.il  (Who else) 
   |  ----      s2973229@techst02.technion.ac.il (Ech..)
From: anderson@Apple.COM (Clark Anderson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Re: Engraving an HP48
Date: 25 Dec 92 05:06:33 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

sweet@ug.cs.dal.ca (garth r sweet) writes:
>Has anyone else had this problem?
>How do you mark your calculators

I had my name engraved in the aluminum plate
just below the display. Looks very nice.If you
use a small type size, you might get 2 lines of
text for your name and SSN. I had an engraving
shop do it for $10. Cheap insurance.

                        --clark
----------------------------------------------------------
Clark Anderson                 BellNet: 408-974-4593
Apple Computer, Inc.         AppleLink: C.ANDERSON
                              InterNet: anderson@apple.com
I speak only for myself...
----------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
From: roland@quadsys.com (Roland Besserer)
Subject: Re: The "high price" of the HP48!
Organization: QUAD Systems
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 03:30:31 GMT

anthony@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Anthony J Stieber) writes:
: In article <PHR.92Dec30222224@napa.telebit.com> phr@telebit.com (Paul Rubin) writes:
: 
: >1. Remember the original post said ALL CURRICULA.  This includes art,
: >music, history, literature, etc. as well as engineering.  Computers
: >are becoming important in all these fields--for text formatting
: >if nothing else--but machines like the HP-48 (and even 95LX) are
: >mostly useless in all nontechnical fields.  (Possible exceptions
: >are business, economics, etc.).
: 
: >A 48 seems like a fun toy and I'd buy one if someone offered me one
: >cheap enough, but I feel it is a disservice to most students to
: >suggest that a real computer is not a better investment.
: 

I own a SPARC II, what you would consider a serious computer, as well as
a DECStation 5000 and they are great machines and do what I want - alas
they are not portable. The portable 'computer' of my choice is the HP48SX.

Not only does it contain the EE formulas I use most, I keep my appointment,
flight schedules on trips, address/telphone book, expense reports and quick
notes on an HP48SX equipped with 2 128K RAM cards. It is the most portable
and flexible tool I have. Agreed, I can't type a report on it but it goes
everywhere I go.

With it's serial interface I use a XView based interface to transfer 
appointments, etc from the SUN to the HP, but even updating information
in the field via the keypad is acceptable. 

The HP48SX is much more than a very sophisticated calculator.

-- 

Roland Besserer
QUAD Systems
roland@quadsys.com
Lines: 25