HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wirzeniu@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lars Wirzenius)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Background processes not dying on parent exit
Date: 6 Sep 92 22:51:38 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

I said that children shouldn't be killed when their parent dies.

person@plains.NoDak.edu (Brett G Person ) asks in reply:
>Why is it done this way?  This is kinda sloppy.  I know that
>somethimes unix will forget to kill one of my processes, but it
>doesn't seem to happen very often.  Why would linux be designed this
>way?   

As far as I am aware, no Unix kills children when the parent dies.  I
see no reason why processes should be killed for arbitrary reasons like
some other process dying.

Also, do you think that the following should work:

	#!/bin/sh
	(sleep 10; echo 10) &
	(sleep 5; echo 5) &

A similar thing happens with some program, e.g. some mailers leave a
background child process behind to do the real work, so that the user
doesn't need to wait as long for a prompt.  Should this be impossible?

Note that doing nohup isn't the answer: it could still be a good idea
for some leftover child processes of this kind to be killed on hangup.

--
Lars.Wirzenius@helsinki.fi
From: zlsiial@uts.mcc.ac.uk (A. V. Le Blanc)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: shar shell archives.
Date: 8 Sep 92 13:11:43 GMT
Reply-To: LeBlanc@mcc.ac.uk (A. V. Le Blanc)
Organization: Computing Centre, University of Manchester

In article <4987@sumax.seattleu.edu> khamer@sumax.seattleu.edu (Little Kenny Hamer) writes:
>How can I get source to the shar/unshar utility?  I have a program I would
>like to try to compile, Xfract, but the only source I can find is in a
>sharfile.  There is not enough room on my university account to unshar it.

You should not need an 'unshar' utility; simply delete any lines in the
shar file before the line which is intended to be first (which is usually
a comment beginning with '#') and type

     sh filename

This will, of course, assume that any commands which the shar file
contains (sed, touch, chmod, etc.) already exist on your system.

     -- Owen
     LeBlanc@mcc.ac.uk
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: rafal@utstat.uucp (Rafal Kustra (summer student))
Subject: Re: Compiling TCSH
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:38:45 GMT

In article <mrhoten.715982258@Xenon.Stanford.EDU> mrhoten@cs.stanford.edu (Matt Rhoten) writes:
>jonathan@nova.next.nd.edu (Jonathan Bradshaw) writes:
>
>>I downloaed tcsh.tar.Z which contains a tcsh.a and Makefile. I am using the
>>MCC interim release of Linux that is currently on the archive site (tsx-11).
>>The problem is I get:
>
>>tcsh.a(sh.o): Undefined symbol _setjmp referenced from text segment
>
>I ran into this too. The problem is that the libraries define __setjmp,
>not _setjmp. According to ANSI, apparently. Read <setjmp.h> for more.
>Run nm on tcsh.a and libc.a for even more info.
>
>Apparently tcsh.a was compiled with a different library?
>
>My initial thought for a solution was to write a stub setjmp and have
>it do the right thing. First I tried writing a stub _setjmp, at which
>point I found out that the version of gcc I have (2.2.2d) doesn't grok
>-mno-underscore (or whatever the option is). So I switched to try a
>stub setjmp, figuring the underscore would get added, which it did.
>If you try to do this, be sure to #undef setjmp before declaring your
>routine, if you include <setjmp.h>, as it is a macro in that header.
>
>So I linked 'em together, and tcsh ran, sort of. My hacked version did
>things like hang, use up all my memory, run out of swap, and cause
>kernel panics. Oh, and hose my filesystem a bit. So I deleted my
>hacked version, figuring to download source later.
>
> -matt
>-- 
>Matthew Rhoten | mrhoten@cs.stanford.edu | m_rhoten@leland.stanford.edu
>"When Adam and Eve first saw each other, that's when the blues started."
> -John Lee Hooker

Why not just use -V 2.2.2 in compiling ?

			Rafal


-- 
/|| Numbers exist only in our minds. There is no physical entity that
 ||_is_ number 1. If there were, 1 would be in a place of honor in 
 || some great museum of science, and past it would file a steady
==== stream of mathematicians gazing at 1 in wonder and awe.
From: torvalds@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Benedict Torvalds)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Unable to use floppies under Linux
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:39:17 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <1992Sep10.182648.12564@eua.ericsson.se> tmpcms@eua.ericsson.se (Carl-Michael Skoog) writes:
>I've installed Linux about 20-30 times, and every single time the filesystem 
>ends up corrupted when I use some floppy-related command like tar(with /dev/fd0
>as file, pax and GNU tar alike), dd, fdformat...

[ *BAD* problems deleted ]

This certainly looks like the linux floppy driver has /major/ problems
with your machine - just as a guess I'd assume it's some weird DMA
incompatibility as the floppy driver is the only thing in the standard
kernel which uses DMA.  

It would seem that the DMA accesses go all over your memory, resulting
in weird and incorrect behaviour - writing over the wrong buffers,
kernel data structures etc. 

>Could it be my hardware that is stabbing my back? 386BSD and MINIX works
>fine though.
>I will be infinitely grateful if someone can help me with this.

As minix and 386bsd works, it would certainly seem to be a bug in the
floppy driver.  A very weird one, though - this is the first such report
I've ever seen. 

If you are at all familiar with the PC's DMA setup, I'd suggest you take
a look into floppy.c: setup_DMA(), which is the obvious first suspect. 
If anybody can come up with suggestions on what could be wrong, I'd
certainly be interested - but as I cannot see the problem, I'm somewhat
at a disadvantage to find it. 

On possibility is simply that it's a timing problem: even re-writing the
floppy driver to use the slower outb_p commands instead of the current
immoutb_p() might help.

		Linus
From: fredm@media.mit.edu (Fred G Martin)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: floppy bootstrap problem
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:43:33 GMT
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory

Hello all, I wrote earlier about getting errors when loading Linux's
root image from floppy (the boot sequence seems to go okay).

A few people suggested re-trying with brand new floppy disks;
apparently the bootstrap sequence can't recover from a bad sector.  I
tried this and got the same error.

If anyone has seen this before, with the solution being something
other than a bad disk, I would appreciate any assistance.

A copy of my original post follows.

Thanks,

Fred


Hi all, I'm trying to get floppy Linux up and running on my group's
wonderful new IBM PS/2 Model 25-386sx machine.  Wait, don't shoot me
yet, this IBM has the standard AT bus architecture!  It also has 1.44
Mbyte floppy drive and 4 megs of RAM.

I'm using the 0.97 versions which I rawrote to floppies on this
machine.  Using the boot disk, things were going okay:

	serial port at 0x03f8 (irq = 4) is a 16450
	8 virtual consoles
	4 pty's
	lp_init: lp0 exists (0)
	No bus mouse detected.
	Linux version 0.97-11 Aug  1 1992 13:33:18
	Floppy drive(s): fd0 is 1.44M
	floppy: FDC version 0x90
	sock_init: initializing family 1 (AF_UNIX)
	scsi : 0 hosts.
	scsi : detected 0 SCSI disks 0 tapes total.
	insert root floppy and press ENTER

But then I inserted the root floppy, pressed ENTER, and things went
bad:

	floppy I/O error
	dev 021c, sector 0
	floppy I/O error
	dev 021c, sector 2
	bread failed
	floppy I/O error
	dev 021c, sector 2
	bread failed
	floppy I/O error
	dev 021c, sector 0
	MSDOS bread failed
	Kernel panic: Unable to mount root

I tried rawriting the root disk again and tried the whole process over
a few times with the same result each time.

If anyone has any ideas, please post or e-mail to me.  Thank you.

	- Fred
-- 
Fred Martin | fredm@media.mit.edu | (617) 253-7143 | 20 Ames St. Rm. E15-301
Epistemology and Learning Group, MIT Media Lab     | Cambridge, MA 02139 USA
From: mal11@po.CWRU.Edu (Matthew A. Lewis)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: gcc 2.2.2d installation
Date: 7 Sep 1992 00:37:58 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: mal11@po.CWRU.Edu (Matthew A. Lewis)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, eoi@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Chenmin Zhang) says:

>
>    I want to install gcc 2.2.2d to my hard drive.  I ftp the files to 
>my local machine (har drive), and changed the names (since DOS has limitation
>on how you name your file), and then I copied them using mtools from dos
>to linux /usr directory.  I want to rename them back to original name,
>but linux only supports 14 char. file name and most of the file name has
>2.2.2d (6 char. already) prefix.  I checked the installation script, it
>checks file name.  So I can't arbitrarily change file name.  What can I do?
>I believe a lot of people have experience about this.  BTW, I couldn't find
>any suggestion about this is FAQ.  FAQ just listed how many files you need.
>   Any suggestion will be very appreciated !

he he...no one's around so I'll help him!!!! *evil smile*

no seriously....don't worry about the truncated names. just try and name
them like it says in the docs. It will still work evern though they are 
cut off. if that doesn't work, then install.2.x might be corrupted by
^M's due to mtools or ftp. Email me if you need more help.


ironic?????? :)

-- 
MaThiEu a. LeWis      "There is no middle ground/Or that's how it seems/For 
Thieves Like Us        us to walk or to take/Instead we tumble down/Either
mal11@po.cwru.edu      side left or right/To love or to hate."
					-A Strange Kind of Love
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: bjl@loki.research.ptt.nl (Ben Lippolt)
Subject: Re: WANT GCC? FORGET FAQ.GCC AND README?? READ THIS FIRST!!!!
Reply-To: B.J.Lippolt@research.ptt.nl
Organization: PTT Research
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 07:27:59 GMT

sakaria@vipunen.hut.fi (Sakari Aaltonen) writes:

>While I think Matthew Lewis's first post was in extremely bad taste, I
I agree!

>do wish the knowledgeable people here would keep their shirts on. Calling
>someone a stupid jabberer won't make him any smarter.

>Because they want to learn, they ask dumb questions and whine about
>README's and INSTALL's. They want to understand things. It's not enough
>to run a script; they want to understand what the script does, and why.

The problem with his post wasn't that he asked dumb question, but it was
the tone of his article. It was very arrogant AND HE YELLED ALL THE TIME.
Also, he gave some bad advice which might confuse other beginners. The
problem with his advice is that most of the things he did were clumsy and
were targeted to *his specific situation*.

My impression is that if beginners ask 'dumb' questions (or show that they
didn't read the FAQ's, README's and INSTALL's), but do it politely
almost everybody accepts them and tries to help. The problem is with
those people who whine about things (Linux doesn't support enough SVGA
cards!, GCC-installation is crap!, the ftp-sites are a mess!, etc). 
It is posts like that which start the flame wars.


Ben Lippolt.
From: wirzeniu@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lars Wirzenius)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: shar shell archives.
Date: 8 Sep 92 14:34:09 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

khamer@sumax.seattleu.edu (Little Kenny Hamer) writes:
>How can I get source to the shar/unshar utility?  I have a program I would
>like to try to compile, Xfract, but the only source I can find is in a
>sharfile.  There is not enough room on my university account to unshar it.

Shars can be unshared by feeding them to /bin/sh, although you have to
be careful to strip any leading and trailing text first (Usenet headers,
for example).

There are also some packages (most of  them called unshar :) that do the
stripping automatically.

Shars can be created for instance with Rich Salz' cshar-package, from
comp.sources.unix archives.

--
Lars.Wirzenius@helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: krej@electrum.kth.se (Kristian Ejvind)
Subject: Re: trident 8900
Organization: The Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Distribution: comp
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 10:35:17 GMT


I'm forwarding an article from comp.os.sysv386 with some interesting data
on Trident 8900 cards for anyone interested in writing a device driver for
that card.

/Kristian Ejvind

Forwarded article --------------------------------------------------------
Path: kth.se!ugle.unit.no!sunic!mcsun!uunet!uunet.ca!canrem!dosgate![michael.livsey@canrem.com]
   From: "michael livsey" <michael.livsey@canrem.com>
   Newsgroups: comp.unix.sysv386
   Date: 5 Sep 92 16:00:23 EST
   Reply-To: "michael livsey" <michael.livsey@canrem.com>
   Distribution: comp
   Organization: Canada Remote Systems
   Lines: 22


In article <1992Sep5.1501.20616@dosgate> "michael livsey" <michael.livsey@canrem.com> writes:
   J2> Does anyone know where to get TECHINCAL info on the Trident 8900 chip? Specifically, I need to learn to use the
   J2>bankswitching features to use the 256 color hires modes.

   J2> An address or phone number of trident or if you have a technical manual you don't use anymore, i'll buy it.

   Hi Jason,

   Trident was kind enough to provide me with a complete technical reference for
   their 8900 chip when I asked for one last year. It costs a whopping $8 bucks.
   The manual will provide you with everything you need to write a driver for the
   8900 chip along with 80x86 assembler examples to get you started.

   They're BBS number was (415) 691-1016 when I last checked.

   Hope this helps.

	     michael.livsey@canrem.com
   ---
     DeLuxe/386 1.25 #9068  /Earth is 98% full. Please delete anyone you can.
   --
   Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
   World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: torvalds@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Benedict Torvalds)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Can't get 0.97pl3 to boot
Date: 7 Sep 92 08:12:20 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <715841111snx@temple.demon.co.uk.demon.co.uk> pdc@temple.demon.co.uk.demon.co.uk (Piers Cawley) writes:
>
>But: I just pulled the new 0.97pl3 sources down from nic.funet.fi, hacked
>keyboard.c so that # and @ are in the right place and compiled. Thus far, no
>problems. However, when I copied /usr/src/linux/Image to /etc, did the rdev
>incantation over it and rebooted, I got the following message:
[ deleted ]

I'd be much happier if people using shoelace would try booting from a
floppy (or using lilo) - right now I always suspect a problem with
shoelace when I see these kinds of messages.  Shoelace isn't supposed to
be used any more: please get lilo instead. 

Shoelace has several problems:
 - it doesn't handle holes in the Image file gracefully
 - nobody seems to remember if there are any limits to the size shoelace
   can load. 
 - shoelace cannot handle anything else but the minix fs. 

So please try booting from a floppy, and resubmit the problem-report if
it still won't work. 

		Linus
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: mch@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (Michael Hermann)
Subject: Re: Help getting xv, xload,xlander, and xantfarm working
Keywords: help,xv,xload,xlander,xantfarm
Organization: Technical University of Munich, Germany
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 06:26:04 GMT

gt6698a@prism.gatech.EDU (Andrew Hobson) writes:

>...
>I cannot get xv, xload, xlander, and xantfarm to work.  First I will give 
>you my setup
>97.pl1 and X11v1.1 
>...
>xload problems:
>I try to compile xload with the -V 2.2.2 option, but I get
>...
>get_load.o: Undefined symbol _open_psdb referenced from text segment
>get_load.o: Undefined symbol _k_addr referenced from text segment
>get_load.o: Undefined symbol _close_psdb referenced from text segment
>get_load.o: Undefined symbol _kmemread referenced from text segment
>make: *** [xload] Error 1
>
>I am guessing that this means that the xload I have is for a different version
>of the kernel.  where would I get one that will work for 97.pl1 ?

xload is based on the ps-package to get the necessary load-info from
the kernel. Unfortunately with every new kernel & patchlevel you need
a slightly different ps. Fortunately the part xload uses seems to be
unaffected. At least my xload, that is untouched since 0.96c or so
still (seems to) work. And now I am using 97pl2 on home machine and
97pl4 on notebook.

What you need for linking xload is a file called no_update.o that
you can generate by installing the ps-package. Link this file 
with xload and you should at least get an executable.
If you are lucky, xload will even display some load. 

Michael Hermann
From: Rob.Levin@f217.n3802.z1.fidonet.org (Rob Levin)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Splitting comp.os.linux
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:45:38 -0800

 JW> I know that the FAQ and such says not to use to alt.os.linux,
 JW> but I still get news from there, so if it is still active
 JW> is there a reason why not to use it.  I've seen quite a few
 JW> posts about splitting this newsgroup.  Maybe we could direct
 JW> newbie questions to alt.os.linux.  This is not a very good
 JW> long term solution, but it may be a good way to try out having
 JW> more that one linux newsgroup, and it doesn't really require
 JW> any extra work.

 JW> Just a thought....

Solutions like this tend to orphan those of us on the Fidonet side. 
Presumably the folks gating the news group to Fido will decide whether
everyone here will be connected to alt.os.linux, or comp.os.linux.

So, where does that leave me?  I've written the occasional patch to
kernel source (see previous message) and could certainly profit from
propagating it to people other than newbies (and getting feedback).  So,
maybe I should be gated to comp.os.linux.

On the other hand, I'm not above asking the sort of question that a
newbie would ask....so, perhaps I should be gated to alt.os.linux so as
not to offend "proper" hackers (presumably people who learned un*x via
direct ftp to their cerebral cortices [grin])....

Anyway, I sympathize with your problem, but am not sure there is a
reasonable place to draw a line.  Though, the Linux activists' mailing
groups are available, and they certainly wouldn't contain a lot of
newbie postings....
:-)


Rob L.


 * Origin: Via the Annex in Victoria, TX (1:3802/217)
From: wirzeniu@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lars Wirzenius)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Splitting comp.os.linux
Date: 12 Sep 92 21:20:45 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

alawrenc@sobeco.com writes:
>Perhaps we should go through the  formal process of creating subgroups,

If you want the new groups, yes, please do go through the format
process.  If not, please stop this pointless thread (what is the point
of discussing a lot of new groups which you don't want?).

Lest it isn't clear already, I am mostly against the new groups, with
the possible exception of .announce.  I do not find that about 100
messages per day is too much for one group (actually, I much prefer it
it over half a dozen groups with a dozen or two messages per day).  It
is pretty rude, but if you think that it is too much, perhaps you should
consider getting a better newsreader?

(Oh, and unless something really dramatic happens on the splitting
front, I am not going to participate in the discussion anymore, which
means, among other things, that I won't respond to every message with a
suggestion to post a RFD.  I've said it enough times that I think that
everybody is getting rather bored with me.)

--
Lars.Wirzenius@helsinki.fi
Xref: sparky comp.os.linux:10540 comp.unix.bsd:5589
From: veit@du9ds3.uni-duisburg.de (Holger Veit)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux,comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Re: Shared libraries - info for 386BSD porting wanted
Date: 12 Sep 92 10:23:27 GMT
Organization: Uni-Duisburg FB9 Datenverarbeitung
Reply-To: veit@du9ds3.uni-duisburg.de
NNTP-Posting-Host: du9ds3.uni-duisburg.de
Keywords: shared 386bsd

In <peter.716225737@hilly> peter@micromuse.co.uk (Peter Galbavy) writes:

>Hi,

>Due to no response in the bsd group a couple of weeks ago, and the fact
>I recently noticed that linux seems to have shared libraries I was
>wondering if whoever knows *lots* about them can either (a) try to port
>them or (b) help me port the implementaion across.

>I realise that this will not be a trivial operation, but it is a starting
>point.

>At minimum, will someone tell me the "minimum working set" of linux source
>files needed to understand how they are implemented. I take it there are
>bits in exec() somewhere ? and the linker etc...

>Thanks from a frustrated laptop owner without X386 due to lack of disk
>space,
>-- 
>Peter Galbavy
>Tech Support, Micromuse Ltd
>Phone: +44 71 352 7774		E-Mail: P.Galbavy@micromuse.co.uk

Another thread has been just started about that. Don't look at the Linux
sources, the type of implementation is for a hacker's OS ;-), but not for the 
future. Linux uses (as most SysV systems) fixed addresses for shared 
libraries, which is, with one simple word *unacceptable*.

Holger

-- 
|  |   / Dr. Holger Veit         | INTERNET: veit@du9ds3.uni-duisburg.de
|__|  /  University of Duisburg  | BITNET: veit%du9ds3.uni-duisburg.de@UNIDO
|  | /   Dept. of Electr. Eng.   | "No, my programs are not BUGGY, these are
|  |/    Inst. f. Dataprocessing |          just unexpected FEATURES"
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: chrisl@county.lmt.mn.org (Chris Laurel)
Subject: Vertical Retrace signal?
Summary: watching for vertical retrace
Organization: LaserMaster R&D, Minneapolis, MN  USA
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:51:21 GMT

Does anyone know of a good way to watch for vertical retrace in Linux?  Is
there a signal or interrupt can be trapped?  I imagine that a kernel patch 
would be required in order to catch the VR, but any leads would be 
appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris Laurel
chrisl@county.lmt.mn.org
laurel@stolaf.edu
From: Joe.Klemmer@f615.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Klemmer)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Getting /Image for .97
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1992 10:06:00 -0800

JB=>From: jbradsha@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jonathan Bradshaw)

JB=>Apart from getting the source how can I get the /Image file for
0.97.1
JB=>rootimage?  I installed it on my hard drive and everything works
great
JB=>from floppy but I have the Os/2 2.0 boot manager and want to boot
Linux
JB=>from it. I have grabbed lilo but don't have the /Image file it seems
to
JB=>need. Anyone who has done this (using boot manager or lilo) please
let
JB=>me know. Thanks.

        I, too, have OS/2 2.0 and would love to boot directly into
Linux
using BOOTMAN.  There has got to be a way to load Linux onto the HD so
it can boot from there.  If you find anything out please pass it on.
___
 X SLMR 2.1a X Took an hour to bury the cat. It wouldn't stop moving!

 * Origin: Enlightened Board (703) 370-9528 (1:109/615)
From: cd2a+@andrew.cmu.edu (Court Demas)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Kcl/Akcl
Date: 10 Sep 92 01:14:45 GMT
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


Has anybody been able to compile Kyoto Common Lisp or AKCL??  I went
through the install procedure, but things just don't seem to work (the
makefiles are really screwy).  

Maybe somebody could suggest another Lisp which works well under Linux. 
I really just want something which is semi-complete and has good emacs
support.


thanks,
court
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux