From: forbush@vxdesy.desy.de
Subject: Re: Helping business
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)
Distribution: alt.politics.clinton
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 11:37:46 GMT

In article <CHRISF.92Sep12103252@thor.albany.edu>, chrisf@csc.albany.edu (Slasher) writes:
>> Ok, another question to be directed towards the Republicans:
>> 
>> Bush keeps telling us what's going to be good for business.  The Family Leave
>> Bill would be bad because it would cost business money.  Health Care for all
>> employees would cost too much - it's bad for business.  Raising the minimum
>> wage to keep up with inflation is no good - it's bad for business.
>> 
>> When exactly do we get down to the fact that most industrial countries treat
>> their employees much better than we treat ours?  Gemany, France, Japan, 
>> Sweden... the list goes on.  All we seem to do is consider the short term
>> costs, and as a result, have workers whose standard of living is declining.

Then Rob Sperry writes:

>   Hum and exactly how are all those contries doing?  Sweden 75% intrest rates
>  Germany and Japan are both in economic retractions.  I havn't heard anything
>  about France latly.  But I get the impression things are worse in Europe
>  than they are here in the US.  So which on of those foriegn economys would
>  you like to trade for ours?

As far as Swedish interest rates go, that is being done to defend their
currency, something that doesn't matter to the Americans. Of course this
is a short term move, because Germany (the source of this problem)
will lower their interest rates today. I can speak for the German
ecconomy, since I am currently living here in Hamburg. The inflation rate
is very low, and the unemployment is 4% in the Western part of the
country. I think that the Right-wingers would agree that reunification
was a good Idea, but it does cost some money. If the US could pull
off a unification with Mexico it would be just as amazing
as what is happening here. The ecconomic retraction that Germany is
currently experiencing is due to a loss in demand for their products.
This is mainly because the US can't afford these yuppy products 
any more. The problem DOES NOT stem from the health care system.

As far as the German health care system goes, I think that it
offers more at a cheaper rate than the US. My wife had
a baby in Germany for $1000.00. I can't believe that anyone in the
US could do that. We are not covered by German health care,
so we had to pay the private rate, which ranges between 1.4 and 2.0
times what the government rates are. Before the baby was due
she had several sonograms, which are not routinely done in the US.
We have experenced having a baby in both countries, and it is
clear that Germanys system is on par, if not better than the US
system, and 8 times cheaper even with the 1.4-2.0 private rate factor.

From my point of view I believe that the government health care
system has imposed a limit on health care costs. This seems to
be a reasonable thing, when you consider the three forces that
push health costs higher.

1) People that have money will pay 'anything' for there life and health.

2) People that have insurance don't care what they have to pay
   as long as the insurance will cover the cost.

3) The doctors want to make as much money as they can. 
   (Normal business ethic)

>> 
>> If we REALLY want to be pro-business, perhaps we should re-instate slavery;
>> if employers didn't have to pay their employees, they could be much more 
>> competitive.  :)  My question is, when does it end?  When do we take enough
>> away from employees to say "Now our companies can compete"?  Maybe we should,
>> just for a little while, try the reverse philosophy and actually HELP
>> workers...
>> 
>> I don't want to get too sidetracked, but who here really thinks that the
>> cost of health care for all Americans is what the Republicans say?  I mean,
>> if we spend the money on health care, these people will be able to take
>> the money they once paid on medical costs and use it elsewhere.  Something
>> else will have to benefit.

The cost 'could ' be very high if the government does
impose ceilings for the cost of procedures.


>> 
>> Perhaps I'm drawing too many conclusions, and I'd be interested in others'
>> views...
-- 
Mike Forbush
forbush@panofsky.desy.de

And now for the funny part......


 I love California, I practically grew up in Phoenix
       -- Vice President Dan Quayle
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