From: wbarnes@sura.net (Bill Barnes)
Subject: Re: Feminist Perspective of Batman Returns
Keywords: Batman, feminist, SPOILERS
Organization: SURAnet, College Park, MD, USA, NA, Earth, Milky Way
Distribution: world,local
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 22:32:48 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.205644.27563@afterlife.ncsc.mil> csculha@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Candace S. Culhane) writes:
>I have enjoyed this particular thread of BATMAN RETURNS more than some of
>the other BR threads.  But unless I've counted wrong, a (large) majority 
>of the people posting to this "Feminist Perspective" of BR
>have been men.  Where are the 'feminists' who are giving us their
>perspective, may I ask?

They're around, they just happen to be men 8-).  Feminism is one of
those beliefs that, despite its name, is open to all.

[Personally, I've always thought the word "feminist" was a bit
misleading; it's supposed to indicate someone who believes in equal
rights and responsibilities for everyone (usually in referrence to the
different genders, but I think it's also meant to extend to different
races, cultures, etc.), but (at the risk of sounding PC) the word is
inherently sexist, or at least gender-oriented, the very concept
feminists are trying to get away from.  Unfortunately, nothing better
leaps to mind...androgynists, perhaps? 8-]

>I just saw BATMAN RETURNS this afternoon, after weeks of reading about it
>in the paper and here on the net.  I went with my husband.  I enjoyed the
>movie (although I would rate BATMAN as just a little bit better).

I actually liked BR more than the first one.  Personal preferrences,
and all that.

>I agree that CatWoman was psychotic.  I also agree with the comment about
>the robot telephone ad.  I think Selina really lost it when she heard
>that the ad endorsed Schrecks (!)

I think the bit about, "And your boss will be inviting you for an
after-hours something-or-other which this stupid poster has forgotten
already," was the coup de grace...

>[By the way, I'm not going to give
>a 'feminist perspective' myself because a) I don't want to analyze the
>movie that much, and b) I don't consider myself a 'feminist', whatever
>that title actually describes these days.]

Beats me.  A lot of people seem to have different interpretations of
the word.

>What I found the most
>interesting was the end of the film when Selina says she can't live with
>herself (her split self?)  Batman hasn't even questioned whether or not
>he can live with himself.  He simply does it.  Okay, so he always seems
>to be brooding alot (except when he was romancing Vicki and Selina) and
>he's very committed to what he does.  Anyway, what I saw at the end of
>the film was one split personality who was carrying on, and one who
>wasn't.  Or wasn't she?  In the end, it's quite clear that CatWoman has
>endured.  Perhaps she just can't maintain Selina, CatWoman, and being
>with Bruce in his mansion 'happily ever after.'

I think her quote was something like, "I'd love to live with you, Bruce.
But I couldn't live with myself," implying more of her split personality
at work; part of her wants to settle down with Bruce while the other
refuses to be tamed by anyone.

I'm not sure I would consider Bruce/Batman psychotic the way Selina/
Catwoman was.  I mean, yes, normal men don't dress in skin-tight
black body armor and run around beating up crooks, but I never got the
sense of duality to him that I got from Selina.  There was conflict
between his two lifestyles, but he didn't seem to have the same self-
doubts that occasionally plagued Selina.

>By the way, at the risk of getting flamed, I was moved by Batman's
>plea to CatWoman/Selina when he revealed himself.  And this scene most
>incensed my husband, who said that the comic book Batman would NEVER
>have done such a thing, especially in front of Schreck.  My husband's
>probably right.  But movie wise, that scene improved the movie for me.

My only problem with that scene: why'd the cowl tear rather than just
get pulled back?!  (-8  I'm sure someone can come up with a good analysis
of that moment, but I don't really care! 8-)  As for the comic book
Batman - well, he probably wouldn't have done that.  I thought there
was a reason why I liked the movies more than the comic books...

>One more comment - for the people who have said that BATMAN RETURNS
>doesn't have a plot - well, I thought it had a storyline thread, and
>it moved along.  Did I only imagine there was a plot?  Or do other
>people have to be spoon fed plots in order to recognize them?  

I guess some people never get past the "baby food" stage of movie-
watching.  8->

>Oh, and yes, there were plenty of gapping holes in the plot, like
>how did CatWoman become a gymnast and martial arts specialist, how
>did a bunch of circus freaks learn to re-engineer the bat mobile, etc.

Try to ignore them, it makes the movie more fun.

>I'm not saying the movie was perfect - few movies are - but after seeing
>the movie, I'm amazed at the level of the incensed response from some
>of the people posting to this newsgroup.

Yeah, well, people are just naturally odd that way.  It happens
-- 
Bill "Whassamatter?!  Can't you take a joke?!" Barnes   wbarnes@sura.net
Disclaimer:  The author apologizes for any thought-provoking material he may
	     have accidentally included and promises not to do it again.
Datclaimer:  My employers wouldn't WANT to share some of my opinions.