HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: youngqd@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Dean Youngquist)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Coast Guard user fee repealed!
Date: 21 Dec 92 22:02:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: leela.1h5esvINNe1j
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: atlantis.cs.orst.edu

In article <1992Dec21.152241.19709@mksol.dseg.ti.com> pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com writes:
text deleted
>
>You missed a very important point.  The USCG operates for "the greater good" of
>the United States and its citizens.  Only a portion of the CG budget is
>dedicated to "boating services".  They also license, inspect, enforce (ie.
>potty patrol), interdict (ie. the boarding thing), provide navigation aides and
>chase submarines (no smileies).
Its precisely this portion (the boating services portion) of the CG budget
that should be paid by boaters.  Guarding the coast, chasing submarines and
drug boats, that burden should be paid by the whole US population.  For
decades the CG gave out free boating services, with only a few million boaters,
why should the whole US population pay for the boating services portion of
the CG budget ?  This $ ammount must be quite a lot in densely boated areas.
>
>I would be willing to pay a fee which directly supported the USCG (even if I
>don't always), but to fatten up the budget so that more can be over spent is
>beyond my will ...

Since the US has a large national debt, paying money into the general fund
won't fatten anything, just reduce the debt slightly.
For years the whole taxpayer base paid for the boating services portion of
the CG budget.  Many of us boater and our parents got free tows, rescues etc.
Why not pay back the taxpayers ?

youngqud@ucs.cs.orst.edu	Dean Youngquist
From: mgsail@prefect.cc.bellcore.com (goldstein,marvin)
Subject: Re: inverter and battery use
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 93 00:10:19 GMT
Keywords: inverter dc battery life

In article <1hvt3tINNc45@shelley.u.washington.edu> kaygee@hardy.u.washington.edu (Kevin Giansante) writes:
>Holy s---!  

Would you please watch your language.  

Marv
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: gday@comspec.com ( )
Subject: sailing opportunity
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:23:29 GMT

Out of work? Out of money? Out of sorts? 
Winter getting you down?
Do you prefer sun soaked beaches and warm water to slush
and snow?
Female crew member wanted for sailing vessel presently anchored
on the eastern seaboard - N.C. - and bound for ports south.
Must have joie de vivre and good eyesight! Interested? Contact:
Bob Walkinshaw, c/o John Clark
Route 1
106 Earl Avenue,
Beaufort, N.C.
28516
U.S.A.

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com (Dillon Pyron)
Subject: Re: Coast Guard user fee repealed!
Reply-To: pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com
Organization: TI/DSEG VAX Support
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:44:09 GMT


In article <1992Dec22.003553.26507@atlastele.com>, briang@atlastele.com (Brian Godfrey) writes:
>In article <1992Dec21.152241.19709@mksol.dseg.ti.com> pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com writes:
>>You missed a very important point.  The USCG operates for "the greater good" of
>>the United States and its citizens.  Only a portion of the CG budget is
>>dedicated to "boating services".  They also license, inspect, enforce (ie.
>>potty patrol), interdict (ie. the boarding thing), provide navigation aides and
>>chase submarines (no smileies).
>
>   The Coast Guard originated as operators of rescue boats.  I cannot
>   imagine a greater good than saving lives.  They became paramilitary 
>   during WWII (if I recall correctly.)  Unfortunately, they remain 
>   paramilitary.  I, and it sounds like others as well, do not feel that
>   this is for the greater good.  We've already got one Navy.  Why do we
>   need two?  (Of course, I suppose it could be argued that the Coasties
>   at their worst are probably better than the Navy at its best when it
>   comes to vessel search and seizure. :-)
The Coast Guard originated as "treasury cutters" and was operated as a branch
of the Treasury Dept. for a long time,  along with my two personal favorites,
the Customs Service and the BATF.  They have been, and, I believe, still are,
responsible for the safe conduct of shipping inside US territorial waters.  The
Navy is responsible for the prosecution of war efforts and defense against
hostile enemies (as opposed to friendly enemies :-).

When the Navy was boarding ships in the Persian Gulf, it was the Coasties who
actually went on board first.  Imagine being boarded by a bunch of guys
carrying M16A1s, shotguns and cal .50 automatic rifles.   "Good morning, we'd
like to have a look at your head, your discharge placard and the contraband in
hold three".
--
Dillon Pyron                      | The opinions expressed are those of the
TI/DSEG Lewisville VAX Support    | sender unless otherwise stated.
(214)462-3556 (when I'm here)     |
(214)492-4656 (when I'm home)     |"Pacts with the devil are not legally
pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com          |binding!"
PADI DM-54909                     |-Friar Tuck   _Robin Hood:The Hooded Man_
From: bartley@spss.com (Dennis Bartley)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Celestial vs. GPS (was Re: Bermuda Trip - 7/'93)
Date: 29 Dec 92 19:48:59 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

In article <1992Dec28.193807.6974@smartstar.com> ben@shark.smartstar.com (Benjamin Ellsworth) writes:
>In article <1992Dec15.213557.17851@atlastele.com>, briang@atlastele.com (Brian Godfrey) writes:
>|> >I think many of these sailors would have been in serious trouble if they
>|> >had had power problems or GPS failures.
>|> 
>|>    So what if they drop and break their sextant, or drop it in the drink?
>|>    What's the diff, really?
>
>The difference is in the complexity, hence reliability, of the device.
>
>Sextants are very very simple devices that rely on just a few very basic
>(i.e. reliable) laws of geometry and astronomy.  They just don't fail
>that often, and perhaps most importantly, it is usually easy to tell when
>they have failed.
>
>A GPS or LORAN on the other hand relies on many, many other complex sub
>systems to operate.  These subsystems are prone to failure, and of course
>the whole system is much less reliable than any of its parts.  Perhaps 
>most problematic, the system can fail in completely non-obvious ways.
>
>You're not likely to break your sextant, but when you do, you'll know it.

I'm not so sure the complexity is much different. Celestial navigation
relies on simple tools, but the operator has to be very skilled,
both in making the observations and reducing them to a position. Those
skills aren't easy to come by, and must be used often enough to
maintain a high level of proficiency. You really don't have to be a
rocket scientist to use Loran or GPS, and with just a little thought
you can tell the position it's giving is in error. 

While celestial navigation may be anacronistic in this age of
relatively cheap electronics, for some of us it's an interesting thing
to know... like how to splice a line or make bread. For those who sail
offshore, it should be an essential tool to back up sometimes
tempermental electronics.
From: youngqud@ucs.cs.orst.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: How much force needed to propel boat ?
Date: 21 Dec 92 09:22:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: leela.1h42csINN27c
Distribution: world
Organization: University Computing Services - OSU
NNTP-Posting-Host: atlantis.cs.orst.edu
Originator: youngqd@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU

I need a ball park figure for the force needed to propel a 45 foot
power boat, 10 foot beam, at at hull speed, 7 - 8 knots I think.
This boat weighs about 8 to 10 tons.  How much forward force is exerted
by the propellor to move the boat at 7 - 8 knots ?  If anyone has a
guess or estimate please send me email.  BTW it takes I think it takes
about 60 of the 83 horse power available to push it at 7 - 8 knots, if that'll
help.
Thanks.

youngqud@ucs.cs.orst.edu
Dean Youngquist
428 N.W. 9th Street
Corvallis, Oregon 97330
FAX (24hr) & Voice (not 24hr) shared 503 758-6230
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: bjornson-robert@cs.yale.edu (Robert Bjornson)
Subject: offshore sailing courses
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 17:02:50 GMT



I'd like to take a week long vacation and do some offshore sailing
this winter.  I have done quite a bit of dingy sailing, plus one
season's worth of sailing my Catalina 27 on Long Island sound,
including quite a lot of single-handing.  What I'd like is a very
concentrated dose of sailing, with night sailing, passage making,
maybe some sextant work, etc.  I'm considering a couple of the one
week courses offered by various sailing schools.

In particular, two that seem interesting are the Annapolis Sailing
School's trip from St. Petersburg to the Dry Tortugas and back, and
the Trade Winds Sea School's advanced course that involves a trip from
St. Lucia to Bequia and back.

I'd be very interested to hear from anyone who has experience with
either of these courses or schools, or would recommend some other
course.  If there's interest, I can summarize the responses.

Thanks,

Rob Bjornson

INTERNET: <bjornson@cs.yale.edu>		USMAIL: Robert Bjornson 
BITNET:   <bjornson@yalecs.bitnet>		Dept. Computer Science
USENET:   <bjornson@yale.uucp>			Box 2158 Yale Station
From: myoung@digi.lonestar.org (Michael Young)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Celestial vs. GPS (was Re: Bermuda Trip - 7/'93)
Date: 21 Dec 92 13:38:35 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

In article <1992Dec18.144031.24868@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu> whoward@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu (Will Howard) writes:
>In article <1gqlkcINN9e7@calvin.NYU.EDU> roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
>writes:
>>whoward@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu (Will Howard) writes:
>>>If you want to guesstimate latitude (at night inthe Northern Hemisphere),
>hold
>>>out your arm straight and make a fist. Close one eye, and count the number of
>>>fists from the horizon to the North Star (Polaris). Each fist is roughly ten
>>>degrees of arc, so multiply by ten, and that's your latitude. 
>>
>>	Ok, I just tried it.  Sitting in my desk chair sighting the other
>>side of the lab (about 41 feet), my fist subtends from the floor to between
>>the first and second bookshelves, about 66 inches (5.5 feet) or so.
>>Depending on how I squint, hold my head, etc, I can get about +/- 4 inches
>>on that; atan(5.5/41) is about 7.6 degrees.  Maybe my arm is too long, or my
>>fist too small (or my head too big, it's possible).
>
>Maybe your retina's too big. :-)
>
>>	Let's try a group experiment, all you rec.boats boys and girls.  If
>>you'll try the same experiment and send me the data, I'll tabulate the
>>results and report back (Hey, like, I'm supposed to be a scientist, right?
>>At least that's what my ID card says.  Maybe if being a scientist doesn't
>>work out, I'll try being a lemon merchant)
>>
> 
>I have tried this and it works. Of course you could just calibrate your own
>fist-eye arc. Remember this isn't meant to be a precision navigational
>technique, just a rough-and-ready worst-case-scenario trick.

These rough estimate techniques can be quite useful.  In the example discussed
above, it is not helpful to know what angle the average fist/arm gives
but it is helpful to know what *you're* fist/arm angle is.  The book "The
Practical Pilot" (sorry, I can't remember the author) describes many such
"tricks" that make piloting eaiser.  For example:  While standing directly
behind the wheel (or wherever you usual steering position is), use your 
hand bearing compass to take bearings of your shrouds and staunchions.  Make
an note, mental or otherwise, of the bearing of each object.  Then it is easy
to get a semi-precise bearing to a distant object by assuming the steering
position and relating the distant object to your now calibrated local objects.
If you find this "trick" helpful, then get this book.  If you need to know
the author, I can look it up.

Fair winds and far places....

-- 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
T. Micheal Young  "WindRider"  H-18 13755
myoung@digi.lonestar.org
From: mikey@smartstar.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Coast Guard user fee repealed!
Date: 31 Dec 92 18:34:06 GMT
Organization: SmartStar Corporation / Signal Technology


   Help, I have been reading a lot of messages the last few days about the 
User TAX ( oops, fee ) being repealed.  I thought it was only repealed for 27
feet and under or something and I still have to pay my tax for my DOWNEAST 32
this year.  Has it been completely repealed or do I have pay ??? I am
consedering not paying this year, since I have paid every year and am getting
upset at all the boat that NEVER paid...

	mikey@smartstar.com
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Celestial Navigation Question
Date: 31 Dec 1992 13:57:49 GMT
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: euclid.cs.brown.edu

In article <2B42109F.1700@ics.uci.edu> omalley@kleber.ics.uci.edu (Owen O'Malley) writes:
>I've been looking at some high level overviews of celestial
>navigation. It seems that they only use the sextant to read the angle
>to the horizon and establish a circle of position. Then they use a
>second object (and circle of position) for a fix or running fix. I
>started wondering why they don't take the bearing to the celestial
>object to determine their location on the circle of position. Surely,
>adding a handheld compass to a sextant wouldn't be difficult and it
>would allow a fix based on a single celestial object. Is this ever
>done? Is there a good reason why not or is it just tradition?

Others have answered your question well, so I won't address it directly.
But as to your question about "why not a bearing compass?," that's a good
one for a different reason. When you're planning to take a round of stars,
it's often tough to *find* the star before twilight is over :-(. You can
use the NA and a little grunt work based on your assumed position to get a 
pretty good guess of where the star will be, both altitude and azimuth. A
bearing compass within your sextant would let you point it in about the right
direction, with the altitude all set in advance, and just scan around until
you found the star. I've wanted one of these for a long time. Of course, for
the second/third/fourth... night out, the stars will be in about the same
positions as they were the previous night---azimuth and altitude aren't likely
to change by more than a degree or two, so that after a couple of evenings, you
just *know* where to look... (unless you are on a *very* fast boat, or perhaps
an airplane).


As to Roy's question about the the Marq St. Hilaire method (with
assumed positions, etc.) being useful only when the true and computed azimuth 
are quite similar, this is correct. On the other hand, if you get *two* star
sights and reduce one using MSH to get a new AP, and then reduce the other 
to get a new AP, and then the first, and then the second, and so on, you
can actually converge in on your true position (assuming the sights were
accurate, of course) after a few steps. I believe, by the way, that this
iterative system is roughly what my Loran does: it asks for my position within
a degree or two when I first fire it up each year, and then it does a lot of
thinking, until it gradually settles on an answer. I did once watch it get
out of whack, and its iterative scheme seemed to go haywire: it gave me a
sequence of "doubtful" (i.e., blinking) positions that started about 2 miles
from my location (in Maine, about 42N 69W) and gradually, over the next five
minutes, moved away faster and faster. I reset it when it started saying my
latitude was 15S... :-( I'd still love to know how it got started down the
wrong path...

-John



-John
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: kaygee@hardy.u.washington.edu (Kevin Giansante)
Subject: Challenger 32 sailboats
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 01:19:19 GMT

Anybody have an opinion regarding the seaworthiness, durability,
structural characteristics, or sailing ability of a Challenger 32?  All
opinions and other information will be welcome and appreciated. 
Thank you.

Kevin Giansante
From: youngqd@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Dean Youngquist)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Any Submarines out there?
Date: 21 Dec 92 22:19:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: leela.1h5fsqINNe95
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: atlantis.cs.orst.edu

I heard that there is a man in Portland, OR by the name of Gary Rekart,
works at a place called Laketronics and he also leads some kind of boating
boy scout group.  Anyway Gary and the young folks in the club have allegedly
pooled thier money and purchased a very old ex-soviet sub over in Russia
or one of the other former republics.  I'll check into the details if anyone
is interested.  May be there another sub for sale somewhere.

youngqud@ucs.cs.orst.edu		Dean Youngquist
FAX (24hr) & Voice (not 24hr) shared 503 758-6230
From: kabreuer@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Klaus Breuer)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Longdistance yacht - suggestions?
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 21:06:13 GMT
Organization: CSD., University of Erlangen
NNTP-Posting-Host: faui00e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de

Hi everyone!

I plan to buy a sailing yacht and live on it for about 10 to 15 years.
As a kid our family lived on board the 60' Kajen for 5 years, so I have
some idea of what I'm getting into.

I thus need a ship combining these features:
* steel
* reliable
* center cockpit
* good seaworthyness, doesn't need to be fast
* sloop with 7/8ths kutter rigg
* 3/4 long keel
* overhanging bow and stern

I am definitely not looking for a toy sitting in a harbour to impress friends,
and thus can't use funny little tricks like double beds, etc.

So what would you suggest? And ideas about right size (I'm thinking of about
11-12m)? Any ship types to avoid, designers of good ships (not racing yachts)?

Also, where in the world would be the best place to buy a used ship? Dakar?
Canary Islands? From the US cops?

Please reply via email, I'm away for two weeks and would miss your replies...

Thanks in advance!

Ciao,
Klaus
---
Klaus Breuer, Rudelsweiher Str. 6b, 8520 Erlangen, Germany
** "Geez, I need a _reason_ for everything?" --Calvin 
** "Should I or shouldn't I? -- Too late, I did!" --Hobbes 
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: zielke@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke)
Subject: Re: GPS fix quality (was: Celestial vs. GPS )
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 16:36:34 GMT

There is yet another problem with the 'precision' of the fixes given by GPS
or even LORAN.  While sailing from Norfolk to Cape May this summer I stopped
in at Ocean City, MD.  There was this guy single handing a 30' something or
another sloop.  He was convinced that he could make it into the inlet half
way between Ocean City and Norfolk.  The chart showed a 5.5' channel which
was unmarked (because it moves with every major storm) and his draft was
5.25'.  He told me 'I can get in there, my GPS is accurate to 15 meters and
the channel is 30 meters wide'  I hope I convinced him not to try...  He was
from Canada on the great lakes and simply did not believe that the bottom
changed with time.

This points out a real problem though.  The charts themselves are often not
as accurate as we would like to believe our GPS systems are.  Differential
GPS will make this even worse.  I expect to see a lot of people aground
because they try sailing full bore in the fog believing that they know
EXACTLY where they are!!!


David Zielke
'Botany Bay'
Cal 35 Hull 006

zielke@fozzie.nrl.navy.mil
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: tmenten@boi.hp.com (Tom Menten)
Subject: Re: 50 foot Haida fibreglass canoe for sale ?
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 15:04:57 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Michael Yahgulanaas (myahgula@questor.org) wrote:
: Imagine a 50 foot fg canoe of your own. This unique vessel is available 
: upon order. The mold is constructed and if there is serious interest we 
: will pour. Cost range is basic at 35,000. Serious interest only please.
: 
   
Are volume discounts available?  I'd like to know the price breaks, for
say 

12
50
100

Also is gift wrapping available, and what is the off the shelf availability?
Can I order several in time for Christmas?  What about store samples and
display models?


Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: leigh@ssd.comm.mot.com (Todd Leigh)
Subject: Paddling in New Zealand
Organization: Motorola
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 11:51:05 GMT
Summary: Looking for information 
Keywords: Paddle NZ

Hi.

I know this subject has been covered before, but I'm going to broach it again
anyway.

My fiance and I wish to go to New Zealand for our honeymoon in February 1994,
and we want to do some kayaking.  We will be on the North Island for 3 weeks,
doing one week of sea kayaking (in the Bay of Islands maybe?), one week of
whitewater kayaking/sightseeing, and one week of hiking (the Egmont round-the-
mountain track maybe?).

What we are looking for are recommendations for kayaking outfitters who run
trips or rent gear for advanced paddlers.  We are both guides for sea-kayaking
trips here in the Midwest, and we both paddle class IV whitewater fairly 
comfortably.  We especially need information on the whitewater, since the 
sea-kayaking is a little easier to get a handle on.

Is there anyone who rents gear or runs trips there (similar to what Nantahala
Outdoor Center does in N. Carolina if that is any help)?

If no guided trips are available, is anyone out there interested in taking a
couple of Yankee boaters out paddling for a couple of days?

Any recommendations as to what to do while we are there will be appreciated.
We're starting our planning a long way in advance so we have lots of time to
make decisions.

Thanks,

Todd.

Todd Leigh - Motorola Inc. Land-Mobile Products Sector - leigh@ssd.comm.mot.com



Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: doc@wixer.cactus.org (John McClenny)
Subject: Re: Whitewater slalom WILL be in the 1996 Olympic Games!
Organization: Real/Time Communications
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 93 18:29:19 GMT
From: myahgula@questor.org (Michael Yahgulanaas)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: 50 foot Haida fibreglass canoe for sale ?
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 00:54:36 PST
Organization: Questor|Free Usenet News|Vancouver, BC: +1 604 681 0670

Imagine a 50 foot fg canoe of your own. This unique vessel is available 
upon order. The mold is constructed and if there is serious interest we 
will pour. Cost range is basic at 35,000. Serious interest only please.



--
  Michael Yahgulanaas (myahgula@questor.org)
    | QUESTOR:  Free Dial-in Public Access to Usenet Health, Medical News |
    | & AIDS forums, and Info on Global Environment at  +1 604  681 0670. |
From: janis@unislc.uucp (Janis Huber)
Subject: Boating groups near Mamoth
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 00:23:27 GMT

I have two friends that are moving out to Mamoth to work at the resort and
they are looking for a few good people to boat with this spring.  They are
good, responsible boaters, and are really fun people.  Does the area have
any whitewater boating clubs?  

Please send responses to me.  I will forward to Tim and Liza.



						Janis



Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle