HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.magick
Subject: Re: herb books
Date: 10 Nov 1992 15:17:59 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <1992Nov10.050321.25998@samba.oit.unc.edu>, shava@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Shava Nerad Averett) writes:
> In article <lfipipINNalo@news.bbn.com> dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:
> 
> >The biggest confusion comes in psycho-active herbs, which
> >some authorities rate as toxic on that basis alone.  That's a shame --
> >I still have no idea whether mugwort tea or cigarettes are really safe
                                               ^^^^^^^^^^

> My personal opinion is that cigarettes are not safe.  Nicotine is one of
> the nastiest pesticides in nature.  It's a poison.  No american cultures
> used the tobacco plant recreationally before europeans arrived here, to the
> best of our knowledge (_Hallucinogens_ forget the author, a good book on
> new world hallucinogenic use, UCLA Press, I think).  I use the stuff in
> moderation, but many people who are more inclined to addiction don't have
> the option...  I'm avoiding it during pregnancy, along with any other smoke-
> ables (oxygen deprivation) and heavy stimulants (growth retardants).

Whoops, I guess I wrote a pretty bad sentance up there.  I've been wondering
why all those people saw the need to tell me how bad smoking was for me
when I've never smoked at all.

I meant I didn't know if *mugwort cigarettes* were safe or not.  I guess
maybe I should have said mugwort joints, but that could be confusing too.
I had a friend who was trying to cut down on pot smoking who smoked mugwort
as a substitute habit.  I kept trying to find better information for him
on what it did and how safe it might be, and didn't have much luck.  I've
smoked a bit and thought it was sort of nice, if bland.  But it always
bothered me that it has this huge NOT SOLD FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION sign on
the jar where I buy it.  Starhawk and many basic books suggest mugwort 
tea, so I assume it's not too grossly awful (except when pregnant).  I'll 
check into the other books that you mention and see if I can find it.

I have read some interesting reports that organic tobacco is much less 
carcinogenic than commercial tobacco, and that most of the carcinogenic
properties come from fertilizers that are banned from use on food plants, 
but I don't consider the sources unbiased so I'm not sure if I believe it 
or not.   (And unfortunately, this is another case of the ex hitting the 
library, I don't have the source any more.)  But with that possible
exception aside, it would be pretty bad to be studying herbs and not have
picked up that most people consider tobacco harmful!

Dawn
"Hello death, goodbye Avenue A.  I'm getting tired of waiting, tired of
being afraid.  Joseph Campbell gave me hope and now I have been saved.
So I sing hello death, goodbye Avenue A."  "Folk Song" by Bongwater.

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: jdh@math.psu.edu (Jeremy D Hall)
Subject: Re: "dweebies," inter-pagan hatred, and Tom Lehrer
Organization: Penn State Department of Mathematics
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 04:56:03 GMT

In article <BcT5TB1w165w@ailanth.UUCP> ailanth!ailsa@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>you know, when i first discovered alt.pagan, two to two and a half
>years ago, i started writing a filk of Tom Lehrer's "National
>Brotherhood Week":
>
>Oh the Wiccans
>Hate the Satanists
>And the Satanists
>Hate the Wiccans
>And Dianics
>Hate the Asatru
>And everyone hates Clay and Tim...

I like it!

>
>that's as far as i ever got with it, and probably a lot of peopel here
>won't get the Clay and Tim reference, since they've both been gone a
>while.  BUT...
>

Yeah, where did Clay & Tim go?  I sorta miss Clay's "idiot" posts (consisting
mainly of the word "idiot")...and to think he used to be at the fine 
institution I'm now at...

Jeremy Hall
Penn State Univ.
jdh@math.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman)
Subject: Re: Women and Men Witches
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:35:05 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalno.fnal.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Nov10.085129.44589@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, 
kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins) writes:
> In article <1992Nov8.180006.29875@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, 
radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz) writes:
> 
>> OK.  Here's a synopsis:
>> 
>> (All) men have scummy traits.
>> (All) men have good traits.
>> (All) women have scummy traits.
>> (All) women have good traits.
>> 
>> Do you agree?
> 
>> If you do, then why are you a female supremicist?
>> Why do you feel that changing from one extreme (current patriarchy)
>> to the other (matriarchy) will improve things?
> 
> I wish I had not used the term scum.  Perhaps I should have stuck with
> the term asshole's.  I think people would have understood it better.
> I like that piece of anatomy however, and was trying to reclaim the
> word. 

That's no problem.  This just changes the synopsis:

(All) men are (sometimes) assholes.
(All) women are (sometimes) asshole.

This does not change any of Tim's questions.

[synopsys of A. W. Schaef's work deleted for brevity]

> If Anne Wilson Shaeff is correct, in comparing our culutre to the
> addictive model, then perhaps a twelve step method would be one way to
> get out of it.  And first in that is recognizing that we are fucked
> up, and that the fuckups are beyond our control to repair. 

This still leaves Tim's uqestions unanswered, as far as I can tell.  How does
admitting that we are fucked up lead to a belief in female supremacy?  How does
moving from one addiction (patriarchy) to another (matriarchy) improve things?

-- 
Daniel B. Holzman                    | Eight Words the Witch's Rede Fufill:
HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET                  | An It Harm None, Do What You Will
HOLZMAN@FNALC.FNAL.GOV.INTERNET      |
                                     | All Acts of Love and Pleasure are
Love doesn't subtract,               | Her Rituals
   it multiplies    - Heinlein       |
                                     | Speak the Word.
Disclaimer:  Fermilab's far too large to have an opinion, let alone mine.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: Angelica <anonymus+2278@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Annoying, cloying "wann-be"s
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 16:21:32 EST
Organization: godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1

In article <1215@abb-sc.abb-sc.COM> Ashley, ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com writes:
>	Each one of the people who call themselves by any one of these 
>names activly disavows the others and says they are the OneTrueName(tm)
for a 
>sci-fi/fantasy fan. They also calim their version of what the genera is
to 
>be the only accurate name for such. If I call a Trekkie a Fen, or any of
the 
>other names for a sci-fi/fantasy fan they scream. So I gave up after
being 
>yelled at for trying to conform to the desired names. Let the children 
>fight it out amongst themselves. There's a new name every month, so why 
>even try? *Most* (exceptions already noted in previous posts) of the
people 
>involved in this scene are not worth associating with anyway.
>
>			- Ashley


Ashley -

I agree with you and I think they are all just a bunch of dweebs 
(my favorite name for them).  It is time for them to grow up and
stop flaming you - if they put their minds to work, they SHOULD
be able to come up with something a bit more constructive
to do with their time!  

To the dweebs reading this, don't even think of flaming me!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Subject: Re: Return of the Azure Mage
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:26:52 GMT
Organization: n.o.y.b

In article <6688@m1.cs.man.ac.uk> lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk (Chris Lilley) writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.212856.3930@wvnvms.wvnet.edu>
>un032233@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes: 
>
>>Greeting All,
>>		I do not know if any of you remember me.  I am the Azure Mage.
>
>Remember you? We were just talking about you, your mageship. What
>level are you?
><grin>
More important, how many hit points...
	(B-^}
>
>>I was on the system during the beginning of the year and am just now getting
>>back on.  I hope all is well and that my friends will get in touch with me as
>>soon as possiple and that New freinds will come to say hi.
>
>Seriously now, hi there and welcome back.
ditto!
>
>>Blessings of the Goddess to all
>>The Azure Mage
>
	mark
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: rks@cscns.com (Island's Child)
Subject: Re: Oregon Vote Results
Organization: Community_News_Service
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 22:07:43 GMT

klotz@lclark.edu (Gretchen Klotz) writes:
: 
: 
: Now, what are we going to do to help since Measure 2 has passed in
: Colorado?  (And how did it happen?)
: 

   Most of us are still sitting here, scratching our heads. How *did* it 
happen? The only answer I can come up with is that the fundamentalist
groups such as Focus on (their own damn) Family, Ed Womack, Rev. John
Stocker, Marilyn Hickey, The Navigators and several individual churches
have a great deal of power in this state. There is also some speculation
that the thing was so badly worded that people thought "yes" meant "no". 
(I would prefer to think that people in this state are a little brighter
than that.) 

   Colorado depends a great deal on tourism. Last night, listening to 
talk radio (KOA), some people called from other states to say that they
would not visit or open businesses in a state that legislates discrimination.
That is probably the best way to turn things around. 

   I don't know if KOA has an 800 number for those out-of-state. It
may be worthwhile for the evening talk show hosts to get bombarded
with phone calls. In particular, Rick Barber (12AM to 4AM) is one of
the more tolerant of the bunch. The least tolerant is Mike Rosen
in the mornings (9AM to 12noon).
From: alizard@pil.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: re: the US elections...
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 03:27:43 PST

Re: Re: the US elections...
By: crime #0 @grind.cheme.cmu.edu (W. Scott Shannon) USEnet      
 
> From: crime@grind.cheme.cmu.edu (W. Scott Shannon)
> Newsgroups: alt.pagan
> Subject: Re: the US elections...
> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 15:16:24 GMT
> Hey all.. the election is  over.... does it really need to be
> discussed to death too?
> Maybe a new newslist for it? alt.politics?
> I am only speaking for myself.. but I think the discussion has 
> wandered a fair bit off of the pagan area...
> unless I'm missing a connection? 
> if so... please explain... if not... well... 

You are missing a connection. Or more than one.

1. The GOP at the national level in the US has been taken over by
fundamentalist Religious Right-Wingers. 
2. Many state level GOPs have been taken over by the same people.
3. They also have been gathering influence at the local level, running
candidates for city councils, school boards, etc., not only to get their
agenda into the local government and schools, but to groom candidates,
usually with no overt connection to Fundamentalist Xtian groups for higher
office.
4. Evidence is mounting that they are out to get us. (by us, I mean pagans)
5. soon to be Ex-President Bush has expressed support for the more repressive
positions of the Religious Right...

For more data, I'd use the newsreader to look for the thread "Pull your head
out of your ass", and the post on athiesm and the GOP position on that.

Further... a new President will be appointing Supreme Court Justices, which
have everything to do with our freedom to express ourselves as pagans, to
keep our property secure against the government, and other matters which
affect us as a community. 

And yes, you are only speaking for yourself. Now that I've settled that...

Blessed Be
                                                 A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== mea saurus, mea saurus, mea maxima saurus! ====== 93 ======
                  (slogan contributed by Jessica McGeary)
Mail to me should be sent to:       |  There are no fnords in this sig file.
alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM     |  autoreply to address I posted this
     ^^^ preferred site ^^^         |  from only if you want to wait a
PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard     |  solstice or two for my answer.
alizard@seer.mystic.com(backup site)|              Kallisti!
From: wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: DAMN THIS LIE!!!!
Date: 9 Nov 92 22:33:05 GMT
Organization: The Heart of Gold BBS, Lemont PA

gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick) writes:

> I don't know what this means at all, beyond a classic exposition of what
> might well be included in modern pagan philosophy.
> 
> Bill, we are getting some really substantial, heartfelt outpourings here,
> and you might like to save this to file.

Heartfelt, I'm sure-- as far as pagan philosophy goes, who knows, who 
knows?

How would I read this as 'pagan philosophy'? Maybe I'd say, " tribes of 
humans tend to fight with their neighbors, and it is common to see an 
exchange of "counting Coup" among the fighters....".

Maybe I'd say. "one of the traits of 'wisdom' is the ability to avoid a 
useless fight, despite the urgings of the ego....".

Can you dig it? Later, Bill
From: swaim@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Parks Swaim)
Subject: Re: Breeding/Religion (was giving up and moving on) (was WomenvsMen)
Organization: Rice University
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 20:27:54 GMT

In article <BxCzMM.2xC@acsu.buffalo.edu> oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes:
>>>The philosophies you cite, and your attitude, all sound reminiscent
>>>of the religious-poo-poo that condemns sex.
>
>>Hmm. Peggy - did you ever stop to figure out WHY maybe all these
>>religions condemn sex?
>
>>Possible reasons:
>
>The main reason is religions (western religions anyway, I don't know 
>about eastern ones) do not approve of animal instincts.  They attempt 
>to control, sublimate, snuff-out animal instincts.  Except for 
>breathing.  Religion does not seem to have a problem with breathing.
  I think that it's more of a Christian thing. Judiasm doesn't have any
problems with sex within marriage. (Except for ritual purity.) Islam's
wierd, but then everything dealing with interaction between the sexes in
Islam's wierd. (At least to me.) I remember a guest professor in one of
my history classes saying that Christianities sexual hangups coming from
Paul.




-- 
Mike Swaim            | Canada will become the next world power
swaim@owlnet.rice.edu | and they will work to ENSLAVE all the nations
Disclamer: I lie      | of your planet. -Ricardo
Hastur Hastur Hastur Hastur Hastur Hastur Hastur Hasdtr yy['u [{}_+
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich)
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 21:42:34 GMT

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

>People are just not used to seeing them on records; nobody shrieks
>bloody murder when new movie ratings come out because well, they've
>always been rated.  

Actually, they have NOT always been rated.. I remember when they first
started the ratings system.. It added a bit of tittilation to the
prospect of being old enough to go see `r' rated movies..:-)

Before that..there were only 2 kinds of movies.. porno and regular..

Anyway..I agree with most of what you said Janis. 
Let's let up on old Tipper folks.. she's just trying to be a
responsible parent. As far as censorship? That's pretty muddy water..
I think I liked it better before `R'.. The distinction between 
porno and other was pretty clear then. As far as records go.. I'd like
to know what's in that recording my 9-year old son wants to buy before
I let him attach the headphones. As for movies..we seem to get a pretty
good idea of what it's all about on the commercials and news reviews
so can make informed decisions there as parents pretty well..BTW, I don't
read what the `ratings' are when deciding whether my kids can watch it
or not. Like I said, if it's not playing at the `Pussycat Lounge' I can
pretty much know what I can expect.

al


-- 
Al Aldrich	inet:aaldrich@encore.com
"..if you understood everything I said, you'd be me." miles davis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MY opinions are not to be construed as those of my employer.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: jon@cyclone.MITRE.org (J. E. Shum)
Subject: Re: A Few Words About Election Results
Originator: jon@cyclone
Organization: The MITRE Corp. McLean Va.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:14:40 GMT


In article <1992Nov5.001400.16589@radian.uucp>, markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:
> In article <1992Nov4.194138.23015@linus.mitre.org> jon@MITRE.org (J. E. Shum) writes:
> >
> >In article <18882@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie) writes:
> >> 
> >> All in all, it's a stunning setback for the fascist right.
> >
> >Yeah, but at the expense of putting the facist left in charge.
> >
> *******FLAME ON********
> a) by definition, fascism is extremist right. Go look it up before you misuse 
> 	the term.

Point conceded.  I misused the word "fascist."  I should have said 
"statist" or "anti-individualist."

> b) Clinton, who has tried to portray himself as a moderate centrist, seems,
> 	to me, to be a liberal. If you can't tell the difference between
> 	say, Teddy Kennedy, Mikhail Gorbachav, and Stalin, then it's either
> 	reality check time, or you're blind. If neither, you're an ignorant
> 	asshole. Let's see, the "fascist left" wants to allow choice, tax
> 	the ultra-rich who've eaten us alive for the last 12 years, and
> 	cut back on civil rights. Right. I see, this cuts into our liberties.

If you think the Democrats will do anything to protect your 1st
Amendment rights, look again.  The ONLY thing that they may do is
to protect freedom of choice in the abortion issue.  An important
 right, to be sure.  But, I seen no evidence that they will allow
 us much choice in anything else.

If one is truly interested in freedom of choice in all aspects of
life, I suggest looking into the Libertarian Party.  Neither the
Reps nor the Dems want to get government out of the business of
trying to run our lives.  Support them and you become responsible
right along with them.  Remember the Three-Fold law.

> Buzz off.

Blessings to you, Mark.


-- 
<jon@mitre.org>|--24HR Libertarian Party News (900)454-2378 [$1.95 a minute]--
----------------------------------| Libertarian Party            (800)272-1776 
          DON'T BLAME ME!         | 1528 Pennsylvania Avenue SE  (202)543-1988
       I voted Libertarian.       | Washington, DC 20003         (800)682-1776
From: GC.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Falling in Love
Date: 4 Nov 1992 16:07:03 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <Bx6zHq.Ar7@access.digex.com>,
huston@access.digex.com (Herb Huston) writes:
>In article <cukmTB3w165w@ailanth.UUCP> ailanth!ailsa@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>>ok, i have been keeping out of this, but this is too dumb not to
>>comment on.  what makes two parents preferable to three, five, or an
>>entire extended family?  polygamy is the human norm the world over, and
>>the kids seem to come out ok...
>>
>>monogamy is NOT part of "human nature" if we are going to use such an
>>anthropologically inaccurate term.  "human nature" if one is going to
>>look at the "natural" state of humans, is loose polygamous unions.
>
>This is overstated and imprecise.  The evidence of sexual dimorphism
>indicates that humans are mildly polygynous.  Here's a handy scale:
>
>Monogamy   Mild Polygyny   Moderate Polygyny   Extreme Polygyny
>Gibbons    Humans          Gorillas            Elephant seals
>1:1        1.2:1           2:1                 3:1
>
>The ratios are male:female weight.
>
>-- Herb Huston



So, in other words, if the female can beat the sh** out of the male
for running around, the result is...poof!...monogamy?!? Hey, that's
not bad... :-)

=gg
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:12844 alt.magick:5847
From: bc@Apple.COM (bill coderre)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.magick
Subject: Re: Tarot Construction Questions
Date: 15 Nov 92 01:11:06 GMT
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Distribution: usa
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

ldouglas@engws4.ic.sunysb.edu writes:
|I am thinking about constructing my own tarot deck, however I need
|some help...
|
|   1) What are the best construction materials for decks?
|      (inks, card material, etc.) I want it to LAST!
|   2) What care should be taken with my deck?
|   3) Professionally printed decks have that cool look to them.
|       Anyway I can duplicate it?
|   4) Any suggestions for a Sandman (Neil Gaiman's DC creation) deck?

I'm not an expert on Sandman, although I do think it's a cool comic,
but as for your other questions:

It's pretty easy to order blank Tarot decks from US Game Systems.
Games of Berkeley, here in California, has them in stock for about
$10.

Any form of exceptionally permanent inks should be fine for
construction. I'd suggest pen-and-ink inks.

Professionally made decks are offset-printed from oversized original
artworks. There's no easy way to emulate that slickness, but consider
your limitations as your strengths -- you can make cards that are more
"grainy" and have terrific textural information that preprinted decks
cannot. You could, for example, glue sand onto the cards, or scratch
into the surface of the card while scribing.

I feel that a deck that does not live in a customized box is missing
something. It's pretty easy to buy wooden boxes at indian import
stores (or even Pier 1 imports), which you can then decorate
profusely. The more "soul" you put into the deck, the better they
work, I've found.

bill coderre,
the page of cups
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Reconciling BDSM and Pagan Beliefs
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:08:13 GMT

altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim) writes:

>How many of those who take a dominant role (either in play or in a real
>situation) learn to like it, and come to understand that in many or most
>situations, taking a dominant role (and possibly a violent one) gives 
>the same thrill regardless of the acquiescence of the submissive.

When I play, I am usually Dom (though I very much enjoy being Dommed, if 
someone is sufficiently clear in their role to focus me into the Sub headspace).
The Dom role is *nothing* like power-tripping--I know, I've done enough power-
tripping in my life. :-(  I was trying to explain it to someone recently, and I
found myself saying that the Dom has all the control and the Sub has all the
power.  It would not be remotely similar for me if the other party was not
fully consenting.  Then it would feel like power-tripping, and that is nowhere
near the rush that comes when the circle is well cast and the power is flowing,
or when someone and I are completely focussed on each other with one of us
taking complete responsibility for both of us.  After all, I am a survivor
and an empath--I *know* what the other person is feeling.  (This does not
mean that verbal communication is unnecessary.  Knowing what someone is 
feeling is not the same as knowing *why* or what to do about it.)  Personally,
I could not do SM, because I am a Healer-empath, and I can't deal with bondage
because I am a survivor, but that doesn't mean that I can't see that those can
be powerful for people I respect.  (I make jokes about one of my apprentices
having two Masters--me and her fiancee.  I'm her Wiccan master, and he's her
sexual Master.  It is obvious that they love each other and respect each 
other fully.)

Apologies if the flow of consciousness was less than clear.


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
Newsgroups: alt.pagan