HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: huston@access.digex.com (Herb Huston)
Subject: More on ancient DNA
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 17:53:18 GMT

On Friday, September 25, _The Washington Post_ printed a story on Page A3
entitled "Entombed in Amber, Ancient DNA Hints of 'Jurassic Park'" under
the byline of Boyce Rensberger, the staff writer who produces many of the
"Science Notebook" pieces.  Rather than type in the entire article, I'll
present the salient points.

Michael Crichton, author of _Jurassic Park_, got some of his ideas back
in the 1980s from the Extinct DNA Study Group, according to George Poiner
of UC Berkeley who organized the group in 1980.  Crichton had heard about
them, and they began sending him papers and newsletters.

In the September 25 issue of _Science_ four researchers from the American
Museum of Natural History report findings from a termite embedded in amber
that are similar to those reported previously by Poinar, et al., in regard
to bee DNA.  The termite dated from 25-30 million years ago.  The researchers
are Rob DeSalle, John Gatesy, Ward Wheeler, and David Grimaldi.  [Sorry
not to have a full reference, but my library did not have the latest issue
of _Science_ as of yesterday.]

The AMNH work addresses the question of how termites are related to cock-
roaches.  The findings suggest that the two evolved from a common ancestor
instead of termites being descended from a branch of the roaches.

Regarding _Jurassic Park_, Poinar is quoted as saying it "is not so far away.
It's theoretically possible that you could get dinosaur DNA from them [biting
midges from the Cretaceous containing dinosaur blood]."  However, "there
would be enormous technical problems recreating a whole dinosaur."  The
problems are damage to the ancient DNA [Crichton's characters get around
this by splicing in modern DNA] and the fact that this hasn't even been
done for an extant species with undamaged DNA.

-- Herb Huston
Newsgroups: talk.origins
From: asiivo@cs.joensuu.fi (Antti Siivonen)
Subject: Re: Real issues for Antti
Organization: University of Joensuu
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:01:09 GMT

jtisdel@digi.lonestar.org (J. Michael Tisdel) writes:
>Let me see if I've got this right -- you don't believe in evolution, therefore
>you don't investigate it.  Therefore, all you know about it is what you hear
>and from this hearsay, you have judged the theorey?

	I do investigate it. 

>Now, come on.  If you are a biologist, you must have studied *something* about
>evolution.  What was it?  Was it from this study that you rejected evolution or
>did you come into biology prejudiced against evolution?

	As a matter of fact I didn't care about it very much. Before I didn't 
	care at all, but I've become more critical in my old age --- I suppose
	that follows from my experiences. 

-- 

		Andreas - Siperian Sirri   Siberian Stint

	No ITU, love, evolution.           Tuusniemi ! Siis imein suut !
Newsgroups: talk.origins
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Subject: Evolution Exhibits
Organization: LLNL
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 09:56:44 GMT


	I discovered an interesting evolution exhibit at the
California Academy of Sciences museum in Golden Gate Park in San
Francisco.

	Part of it had some dinosaur skeletons (of course!), but there
was one interesting computerized display, or rather, set of them. It
showed evolutionary family trees, which one could climb by clicking on
the branch ends shown on a screen. One could also click on a
magnifying glass to display significant features of branches, such as
the evolution of wings or a distinct larval stage in insects. Much of
it was on the animal kingdom, though they did present a bit on
bacteria (I didn't have time to look at the whole thing).

	Some of the relationships presented are probably likely to
cause controversy, like placing the brachiopods among the
deuterostomes:

   |--- Protostomes (annelids, arthropods, mollusks)
---|
   |   |--- Brachiopods, bryozoans
   |---|
       |--- Deuterostomes (echinoderms, chordates)


	I guess I'll have to return there pretty soon and do some more
checking...

	How to get there?

	It's in the middle of the eastern half of Golden Gate Park,
between 8th and Fulton Sts. to the north and 9th and Lincoln Sts to
the south. There are signs in the park which point to the museum.
Don't expect to have much luck finding a nearby parking space; when I
was there, the sides of the streets were jam-packed with parked cars.
The closest public-transit routes are:

	Bus #44: goes right by going north, very near going south.
North-south, passes near Glen Park BART station.

	Buses #5 and #21: goes past 8th and Fulton Sts.
	Bus #71: goes past 9th and Lincoln Sts.
	Streetcar/LRV line N: goes past 9th and Irving Sts., a block
south of 9th and Lincoln Sts.

	These are east-west, going into downtown Market St., with its
BART stations.

	From the Bay Area outside of SF:

	BART: get off either downtown (Emb-Montg-Pow-CivCtr) or Glen
Park.

	CalTrain: get off at 4th and Townsend (end of the line); take
trolleybus #30 to Market St.

Newsgroups: talk.origins
From: prl@csis.dit.csiro.au (Peter Lamb)
Subject: Re: Methinks it's like a weasel (Blind Watchmaker)
Organization: CSIRO Division of Information Technology
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 23:41:08 GMT

asiivo@cs.joensuu.fi (Antti Siivonen) writes:

>	Yes, but the probability of evolution is the same as a monkey would 
>	type the whole Shakespeare. The probability of one sentence is 
>	1 / 1+E40, which would lead to probability of 1/1+E12 per year per 
>	planet.

I've asked you several times why you think this to be true. You seemed to
think that Dawkins says so in "The Blind Watchmaker". I have been unable
to find anywhere where he says this, and have pointed out that much of the
"Watchmaker" is devoted to demonstrating why the "typing monkeys" are a poor
analogy to abiogenesis. How do you derive that "the probability of evolution
is the same as a monkey would type the whole Shakespeare?"

If you think that Dawkins argues this, please give a referenced quote to
where he says it.

>	And this was only the first sentence. 

"Methinks 'tis like a weasel" is not the first line in any of the Bard's
plays, and it isn't even in his first play.


Peter Lamb (prl@csis.dit.csiro.au)
-- 
Peter Lamb (prl@csis.dit.csiro.au)
Newsgroups: talk.origins
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Subject: Re: a brief tirade
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 01:28:32 GMT
Organization: Apple
Followup-To: talk.origins

In article <1992Sep28.123714.25854@city.cs>, lionel@cs.city.ac.uk (Lionel
Tun) wrote:
> Are you by any chance referring to the ever changing theory of
> evolution?

Could you please let us know when the thory of evolution changed
dramatically, thanks?

Kent
	Faith is often the boast of the man who is too lazy to	investigate. -F.M.
Knowles
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.
From: swf@teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: self-deceptive belief maintenance
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:34:59 GMT
Reply-To: swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Distribution: world,local
Organization: NCR Teradata Database Business Unit

In article <1487@esl.ESL.COM> markwc@barney.esl.com (Mark Christiansen) writes:
|
|In other words, creationism does not include the doctrine that
|ascribes the origins of all things to God's acts of creation using
|evolution?
|                                                               
That is correct, in that the only useful distinction to be made is
between those who insist onm a supernaturalist explanation for origins,
and those who accept the scientific evidence.

The 'theistic evolution' position is indistinghuisable from science in respect
to the nature of the history accepted, so it does not really need a special
term.
-- 
sarima@teradata.com			(formerly tdatirv!sarima)
  or
Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
From: jloucks@uts.amdahl.com (Jim Loucks)
Newsgroups: talk.origins,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Leaving Amdahl and losing net access
Date: 5 Oct 92 19:03:28 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

Friday October 9th will be my last day of employment with Amdahl. After that
time I will no longer be able to participate in net and email conversations.

Thanks for the education, the perspectives, and opinions. I hope to someday
obtain a NetCom account to continue communicating with you all.

-- 
Jim Loucks           jloucks@uts.amdahl.com 
{apple, pyramid, sun, uunet}!amdahl!jloucks
Newsgroups: talk.origins
From: onar@hsr.no (Onar Aam)
Subject: Re: evolution and natural selection
Organization: Rogaland University Centre
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 10:11:03 GMT


>>|> >The moths are an example of natural selection, NOT of evolution. 
>
>evolution: a change in the gene pool of a population over time
>(or, more narrowly,a change in allele frequency)
>
>natural selection: differential reproductive success of (pre-existing)
>genotypes in a population
>
>fitness: average reproductive success of a genotype in a population
>(usually expressed relative to the most fit genotype in the population
>which is arbitrarily assigned a fitness of one.)
>
>When fitness differences exist, natural selection can cause a change
>in allele frequencies (evolution). Eventually selection will drive
>allele frequencies to an equilibrium point and will then serve to
>prevent evolution until mutation (or recombination or gene flow) 
>replenishes genetic variation with differences in fitness.
>
>Selection and evolution are not synonomous; selection is but one 
>of the mechanisms of evolution. The others are mutation, recombination,
>gene flow and genetic drift.
>
>The moths are definately an example of evolution (via natural selection).
>
>Follow-ups to talk.origins 
>
>Chris Colby 	---	 email: colby@bu-bio.bu.edu	---
>"'My boy,' he said, 'you are descended from a long line of determined,
>resourceful, microscopic tadpoles--champions every one.'"
> 	--Kurt Vonnegut from "Galapagos"
>

I think I need to explain myself. I was hoping that people would see that I was
not using the exact defenitions. On the other hand I must apologize for not being
more precise. Let me remind you guys that this is a field of discussion where
extremely many of the readers does not adhere to evolution. For them an example
of micro evolution is no good. EVERYBODY accepts microevolution. Macroevolution
is the problem. Give them an example of a specie turning into another, not just
"change in allele frequencies! And you CAN'T, because micro- and macro-evolution 
are unrelated topics. So my accurate statement about the moths should have been:
"The moths are an example of microevolution, NOT macroevolution."


Onar.

Newsgroups: talk.origins
From: kevin@nuchat.sccsi.com (Kevin Brown)
Subject: Re: Egg-shaped antediluvian world
Organization: I can't see any in the immediate vicinity...
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 03:13:11 GMT

In article <37@fedfil.UUCP> news@fedfil.UUCP (news) writes:
>In article <Bv3F7o.EE5@cs.dal.ca>, hyde@cs.dal.ca (Bill Hyde) writes:
>
>*	Peter Lamb has done a good job of refuting Rose's geological
>*	imbecilities, but there are a few points I'd like to add.
>
>Several of Rose's points are logically irrefutable;  

...because there is no logic in them to refute?

>Ted Holden
>HTE


-- 
Kevin Brown					kevin@nuchat.sccsi.com
This is your .signature virus: < begin 644 .signature (9V]T8VAA(0K0z end >
	    This is your .signature virus on drugs: <>
			Any questions?
Newsgroups: aus.netstatus
From: kre@cs.mu.oz.au (Robert Elz)
Subject: Re: US link is down
Summary: Back up.
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 23:02:44 GMT

The gateway is working again now, the link is back.

kre
From: kre@cs.mu.oz.au (Robert Elz)
Newsgroups: aus.netstatus
Subject: National link problems
Date: 29 Sep 92 22:37:44 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia

The megalinks from the national hub to Adelaide and Brisbane
are down, as are the ISDN microlinks to Perth (both of them).

The mega-link to Canberra, and the DDS links to Darwin and Hobart
seem to be fine.

I'm about to try and find out what has blown up...

kre
From: kre@cs.mu.oz.au (Robert Elz)
Newsgroups: aus.netstatus
Subject: Adelaide & Brisbane back, Perth still out
Date: 29 Sep 92 23:00:40 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia

The megalinks to Adelaide & Brisbane are back (Telecom described
that to me as a hiccup in the system).

The fibre between Adelaide & Perth is out, being worked on, hence
the ISDN links to Perth are out.

Apparently there is also damage between Melbourne and Sydney, which
would be affecting us if we were using ISDN between us, but we're
not, and the Melb-Canb and Canb-Sydney megalinks look OK.

kre
Newsgroups: aus.netstatus
From: hunter@bacchus.esa.oz.au (James Gardiner [Hunter])
Subject: ESA is leaving the net.
Organization: none
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 04:00:56 GMT


Expert Solutions Australia will be leaving the net indefinitely in
about one weeks time.


Due to the loss of our upstream feed and failure to obtain
a new feed.

Hopefully this will not be permanent.




James Gardiner - Systems Admin ESA.
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Gardiner [Hunter]  [hunter@bacchus.esa.oz.au] Expert Solutions Australia
Systems Administrator                                        ACN [003 130 434]
Newsgroups: aus.netstatus
From: kre@cs.mu.oz.au (Robert Elz)
Subject: Problems inside Melbourne University
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 19:23:09 GMT

We have nets in severe overload (something related to decnet or one
of the related protocols (lat, mop, ...))

You can expect many lost packets, and very slow turnaround reaching
many hosts inside the University of Melbourne - access to munnari.OZ.AU
will be OK if you're using its 192.43.207.1 address.

With some luck, enough of this stuff will be disabled/disconnected
in the morning, and things will quieten down.

kre
(continue)

ps: this affects only internal hosts, traffic remaining on aarnet passing
through here is unaffected.
Newsgroups: aus.netstatus
From: news@cs.mu.OZ.AU
Subject: US link is down
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 22:22:34 GMT

The link to the US is down - or more correctly, the ethernet interface
on the gateway is down, the link itself is just fine.

It's being worked on - more later.

kre
Xref: sparky aus.ai:150 comp.ai:3686 comp.ai.edu:449 comp.ai.neural-nets:3690 comp.ai.shells:450
From: lehn@jupiter.informatik.uni-dortmund.de (Karsten Lehn)
Newsgroups: aus.ai,comp.ai,comp.ai.edu,comp.ai.neural-nets,comp.ai.shells
Subject: XPS with fuzzy methods for handling contaminated soils
Date: 30 Sep 1992 14:18:28 GMT
Organization: CS Department, Dortmund University, Germany
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: jupiter
Keywords: contaminated soil, hazardous waste, expert system, fuzzy


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keywords:    contaminated soil, hazardous waste, expert system, fuzzy
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

We, the
  - Lehrstuhl Informatik 1             Chair of Computer Science 1
    Universitaet Dortmund              University of Dortmund
                                       Germany
and the
  - Institut fuer Umweltschutz (INFU)  Institute of environmental protection
    Universitaet Dortmund              University of Dortmund
                                       Germany
will build an
  - expert system with
  - fuzzy methods for handling
  - contaminated soils.

Within the framework of my "Diplomarbeit"*) it is my task to take the
first steps in this area and to investigate the possibility of building
such a system under our constraints.
     *) "Diplomarbeit" is the german term for the last written document
         you have to prepare before you graduate.
Because of this reason I am interested in everything which has been
done in this area until now.

I ask for information about:

  1. Expert systems for handling contaminated soils
     - complete systems (from registration to redevelopment) or
     - parts of such systems

  2. Expert systems where fuzzy methods are used
     - not only for handling contaminated soils

  3. Date base systems which are used for handling contaminated soils

  4. Experiences gained while using these systems


I am particularly interested in literature and the current state of the
art of these systems.
I am also interested in adresses (for example: of offices or institutions)
where to get the above mentioned information.

I am grateful for each answer to this posting!

Karsten Lehn

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Karsten Lehn             e-mail: lehn@jupiter.informatik.uni-dortmund.de
  Baroperstr. 331 -620-    Fax.:   +2 31/7 55 65 55
  W-4600 Dortmund 50       Tel.:   +2 31/75 38 93
  Germany
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: com.ai.neural-nets,com.ai,aus.ai,com.ai.edu
From: agatha@ee.su.oz.au (Agatha Shotam, Sydney University Elec Eng Tel: +61 (2) 692 4214, Fax: +61 (2) 660 1228)
Subject: ACNN'93 ATERB Scholarships
Reply-To: agatha@ee.su.oz.au (Agatha Shotam, Sydney University Elec Eng Tel: +61 (2) 692 4214, Fax: +61 (2) 660 1228)
Organization: Electrical Engineering, The University of Sydney, Australia
Distribution: aus
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 01:10:56 GMT


     The Fourth Australian Conference on Neural Networks (ACNN'93)


				Melbourne
	
			1st - 3rd February 1993




 			   ATERB Scholarships

			   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


		     CLOSING DATE :  23 October 1992



The Australian Telecommunication and Electronics Research Board is providing 
a number of scholarships for full-time postgraduate and academics from
Australian Universities.  Applications will be considered on technical merits
and financial capacity. 


Application forms can be obtained from:

				Agatha Shotam
				Sydney University Elec Eng
				NSW 2006

				Tel:   (02) 692 4214
				Fax:   (02) 660 1228
				Email: agatha@sedal.su.oz.au
Newsgroups: aus.ai
Subject: Requesting Email address for Mary O'Kane
From: 9211116j@levels.unisa.edu.au
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:24:51 +0930
Organization: University of South Australia

Can anyone help with an email address for Mary O'Kane, who
I understand has some experience with the Blackboard Architecture?
I believe she's at ANU. All advice appreciated,
Mike Sunners, 9211116J@lv.unisa.edu.au,
School of Electronic Engineering, University of South Australia
Newsgroups: melb.seminars,aus.ai,comp.ai
From: s897460@otto (Alicia Lee Hsia)
Newsgroups: aus.ai
Subject: Info Needed on AIG Underwriting System
Date: 4 Oct 92 04:51:44 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: otto.bf.rmit.oz.au


Requires Informations on American Internation Group Underwriting System.
========================================================================

My topic is to discuss on the American International Group's (Insurace
Company) Expert Systems.  Their ES was developed by Syntelligence, Inc.
Their purpose is to mimic top risk managers in tasks such as size up 
risk and price them.  The prototype was done on a product called DIC, 
which dealt with an insurance policy that covers all type of risks,
including earthquakes and floods.

This ES uses Knowledge Acquisition to extract knowledge from top risk
managers.  And, uses certainty factor approach for assigning weights
to the recommendations.

Can anyone please provide me with more informations on the topic mentioned
above as soon as possible.  I need information on how the system actually
works and what is DIC.  What is the problem on this type of ES system, etc ?
Please tell me where to obtain more information.  Thank you very much !
Your help will no doubt be appreciated.  

==========================================================================
|  Alicia NG                                       |       RMIT          |
|  E-Mail  :  s897460@otto.bf.rmit.OZ.AU           | Business Information| 
|             s897460@rubicon.bf.rmit.OZ.AU        |      Systems        |
==========================================================================
Newsgroups: aus.radio
From: ycomputr@runx.oz.au (Mark Cheeseman)
Subject: Re: ARA figures (Was Re: Where ARA the volunteers?)
Organization: Your Computer Magazine, Sydney, Australia
Distribution: aus
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 04:25:06 GMT

In article <terryd.716949703@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU> terryd@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Terry Dawson) writes:
>
>btw, did you catch John Day (vk3zjf's) Packet racket column this/last
>month ? Made a special mention of the VK2 packet situtation. Not too
>far from the truth, one of his better articles. I'm not sure though
>what his target audience is though, the column never seems to actually
>get into the nitty-gritty technical stuff that is promised.
>
Yes, I thought his column was pretty good this month too. I don't think he
knows what his target audience is either - seems to be trying to be all things
to all packeteers. Perhaps that's in part a reflection of the packet situation
itself. 

-Mark


-- 
Mark Cheeseman, Your Computer. ycomputr@runx.oz.au  
packet: vk2xgk@vk2op.nsw.aus.oc     [This space intentionally blank] 
Phn: +61 2 693 4143  Fax: +61 2 693 9720  Fido: 3:712/505.15@fidonet.org
Newsgroups: aus.radio
From: richardm@runx.oz.au (Richard Murnane)
Subject: Re: VK2WI Weekly News Bulletin, 23rd Sept 92
Organization: RUNX Un*x Timeshare.  Sydney, Australia.
Distribution: aus
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 21:03:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep26.222529.20676@runx.oz.au> richardm@runx.oz.au (Richard Murnane) writes:
>
>Calling all Shortwave Radio Listeners, Scannists, Ute Dxers
>and all other radio enthusiasts in the Sydney area.  The
>next Sydney meeting of the combined DX AUSTRALIA/SOUTHERN
>CROSS DX clubs will be held on Sunday 11th October at the
>home of Wayne Watts in the suburb of Smithfield.
>
[...]>
>Please note the change of venue for this meeting from that
>which was earlier notified.  It will now be held in
>Smithfield on October 11.  Anyone interested in attending
>can ring Wayne Watts on (02) 510-3476 or Jimmy Cullen VK2JEM
>on (02) 569-6050, via packet to VK2JEM @ VK2RWI, or on the
>Radio conferences on FIDONET.

Jimmy phoned me at Dural on Sunday morning (after I had posted
this version of the news) to tell me of two corrections
to this item:

	Wayne Watts  -->  Wayne Watt
	510-3476     -->  610-3476

73 de Richard VK2SKY

-- 
Richard P. Murnane                     "Making it up? Making it up? Why should
Internet: richardm@runx.oz.au          I want to make anything up? Life's bad
UUCP:     uunet!runx.oz.au!richardm    enough without inventing more of it."
Packet:   VK2SKY @ VK2RWI.NSW.AUS.OC   - Marvin the Paranoid Android