HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: EWTN
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 07:49:44 CST
Organization: Minas Tirith BBS (Public Access Usenet for New Orleans)

norris@athena.mit.edu (Richard A Chonak) writes:

> In article <k21TwB2w165w@mintir.new-orleans.la.us>, elendil@mintir.new-orlean
> |> Was wondering if anyone had any opinions regarding EWTN and its programmin
> |> We're just starting to get EWTN for more than prime time.  What I've seen
> |> it, I'm not overly impressed.  The daily Mass from Mother Angelica's monas
> |> in Alabama is ok, but some of the lecture shows are downright boring.  So,
> |> hoping that some of you are familiar with some of the priests they have do
> |> these shows, that way I can find out the easy way if any of these guys are
> |> worth watching.
>
> EWTN has become uneven over the past few years, though some of their speakers
> are still excellent.  I'd recommend anything with the following:
>
>       Fr. Benedict Groeschel: formerly a Capuchin, he has founded a new
>               Franciscan community in the Bronx; a psychologist, he has
>               authored an excellent book on stages in spiritual development,
>               "Spiritual Passages".  I can't listen to him without being
>               confronted by the gospel.
>
>       Fr. George Wm. Rutler: a student of Newman who, like him, converted to
>               the Catholic Church from Anglicanism.  The last erudite priest in
>               America.

Thanks for the suggestions...

>
> On the other hand, some of EWTN's programs are promoting the dubious appariti
> at Medjugorje in Herzegovina, which will prove to be embarrassing for the
> network if the Church ever gets around to decisively condemning the apparitio
> as false.  (Roma eterna, civitas Vaticana sempiterna.)  ;-)
>
>

Ouch!  You're not from down here.  The Medjugorje cult in New Orleans is very
strong.  One of the side effects of this (as I mentioned in a previous post) is
that a good bit of financial support from this area is going over there to help
with relief efforts.  I've got problems with the apparitions themselves, also.
I get the impression that they just wish that Medjugorje would just 'go away,'
but the civil war keeps things in the news so much.  Ah, but another time for
Medjugorje.







|Edward J. Branley         elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us|
|Seashell Software, Metairie, LA            +1-504-455-5087|
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 22:03:21 -0500
From:         mayo@CS.UTK.EDU
Subject:      "One Bread, One Body", Jan 12

                    Tuesday, January 12, 1993

Hebrews 2:5-12            Psalm 8               Mark 1:21-28

                        JESUS' EYES

"At present we do not see all things thus subject, but we do see Jesus
 crowned with glory and honor because He suffered death." --Hebrews 2:8-9

The writer of Hebrews saw Jesus in heaven.  By faith, he could see the
heavenly throne.  He repeatedly called others to fix their eyes on Jesus
(Heb 3:1; 12:2).  Like Peter, when we fix our eyes on Jesus, we can walk on
the troubled waters of evil (Mt 14:29).  Like Peter, if we take our eyes off
Jesus, we will sink in those same waters (Mt 14:30).  Like Stephen, when we
fix our eyes on Jesus, we will have the courage to die for love of Jesus
(Acts 7:55).  With our eyes fixed on Jesus, we will even forgive our enemies
and convert persecutors like Saul to missionaries like Paul (Acts 7:60).

When we have our eyes fixed on Jesus, we live in a different world, the
kingdom of heaven.  "It is from there that we eagerly await the coming of our
Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ" (Phil 3:20). Therefore, pray with the psalmist:
"To You I lift up my eyes Who are enthroned in heaven.  Behold, as the eyes of
servants are on the hands of their masters, as the eyes of a maid are on the
hands of her mistress, so are our eyes on the Lord, our God, till He have pity
on us" (Ps 123:1-2).

After fixing our eyes on Jesus throughout our lives, we will eventually be
close enough to Him to look right into His eyes (I Cor 13:12).  We will look
into the eyes of God.


Prayer:  Father, may I be intent on things above rather than on things of
         earth (Col 3:2).

Promise: "What does this mean?  A completely new teaching in a spirit of
          authority!  He gives orders to unclean spirits and they obey!"
          Mk 1:27

Praise:  The Browns found peace through faith in Christ after losing their
         house.
-----
From "One Bread, One Body", reproduced with permission.
 Nihil Obstat: Rev. Edward J. Gratsch
 Imprimatur:  +Most Rev. James H. Garland, V.G.
               Archdiocese of Cincinnati, August 17, 1992.
From: lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Louie Crew)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: The Woman Caught in Adultery (John 8
Date: 12 Jan 93 03:00:28 GMT
Reply-To: <lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


zerucha@shell.portal.com (Thomas E Zerucha) writes:

>>I don't think those
>>who are comitted and monagamous are represented in the parades in SF and NY.
>>But every other deviation is. 

Goodness, gracious.  Now I'm not supposed even to parade!  Whew!  What a
joyless assembly this.

Actually, I must confess that I personally don't like parades.  I suppose
it's because a Texas Aggie dressed up as a bear while as a freshman in
1954 I was charged to guard Baylor's bear pit.  I've not wanted much to
do with secular pageantry ever since I climbed down from the tree and
put on a dry pair of pants.

My friends complained that I could not possibly be a gay activist and
never go to parades, so last summer, they rented a convertible and had
me sit on the back, all the way from Central Park, down Fifth Avenue,
to St. Luke's-in-the-Fields in the Village, for evensong.  Thousands upon
thousands lined the route.  My chariot was surrounded by about 50 lesbigay
priests and several dozen laypersons.  Given the pain which many religious
have brought to so many who lined the streets, I was ready to be pelted
with eggs.  Instead, we were cheered in almost every block, except 
the block of St. Patrick's, which closes up church altogether for 
the entire Sunday every Gay pride day.  It was surrounded by dozens
of armed guards, and pranced around by a handful of joyless banner
bearers warning of Sodom and of Armageddon.  Meanwhile hundreds of 
strangers came over to thank me for our witness.  And at least two dozen 
strangers have sent me blowups of pictures they took of my queanly poses
with olive branches.  Several students and faculty alike sought me out
to whisper variations on, "Thank you for your courage."  

Now I check the mail here and find that by some het divining rod
all this parading is inversely related to the longevity of the
relationship which Ernest and I have been blessed to have over 
the last 19 years.  That's a spooky use of prophecy if ever I heard
one.

Thomas, sugar, from my fleeting convertible I throw you one hot, holy
lesbigay kiss.  Ride in that chariot with me next June.  (Or with
the new Quean for the Day:  My bishop will ride this time, and I will
walk....!)  It's a lot like the Palm Sunday celebrations, also 
followed up with chants afterwards of 'crucify him,' 'crucify him!'

Faithfully,
H.R.H.Quean Lutibelle

-- 
  ==========================================================================
  Louie Crew, Academic Foundations Department, Rutgers University, NWK 07102
  lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu                                   201-485-4503
                   Preferred:  P. O. Box 30, Newark, NJ 07101
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Sunday, 10 Jan 1993 12:53:09 EST
From: Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Newman and Norfolk


Although the subject line of this posting is Newman and Norfolk it is
not about either a law firm or a railway.  There have been several
mentions of Cardinal Newman's Letter to the Duke of Norfolk.  That
letter is now readily available.  Last year Doubleday Image Books
published several of Newman's works under the title _Conscience,
Consensus, and the Development of Doctrine_.  It includes the 1843
sermon, "The Theory of Developments in Religious Doctrine", the 3d
edition (1878) of _An Essay on the Development of Christian
Doctrine_, "On Consulting the Faithful in Matters of Doctrine", and
"A Letter Addressed to His Grace the Duke of Norfolk on Occasion of
Mr. Gladstone's Recent Expostulations".  The front and back cover
blurb seem to be trying to present Newman as a defender of contempo-
rary "dissent" but anyone who reads Newman's own words should see
that the blurbs are misleading at best.
-------
Marty Helgesen
Bitnet: mnhcc@cunyvm   Internet: mnhcc@cunyvm.cuny.edu

"Experience beats in vain upon a congenital progressive."
        --  C. S. Lewis
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Return-Path: cts@dragon.com
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Sun, 10 Jan 1993 15:41:26 EST
From:         "Charles T. Smith, Jr." <cts@DRAGON.COM>
Subject:      Looking for Computer Equipment for Church Dayschool

Wanted - donations of PC and related computer hardware.

Our parish church operates a day school, and has need a computer system on
which to run operations, and would like to provide some sort of system(s) for
the classrooms as well.

For the operations side, something along the lines of an XT (a 10 or
12 mhz would be great) or some sort of 286 would be ideal.  The system
will be used primarily for word processing and simple record keeping;
therefore, a monochrome monitor would suffice.  Would like a 3.5 inch
drive;  however, 5.25 will do;  would like to get at least 40 and
perferably 60 mb of disk space.

For the classrooms, any sort of PC/XT or better system would be welcomed,
as would any systems from the Apple ][ line.

If you have any systems (or parts, I'm willing to integrate and build
a system) on the shelves collecting dust that you'd be willing to
donate to a good cause (and get a tax writeoff), please send mail.  I
can cover some shipping costs.

  Charles Smith
  cts@dragon.com
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:37:00 EST
From:         "Alfred S. Chavez" <achavez@UMSA.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: EWTN

Jim McIntosh writes, in our ongoing exchange on Medjugoje, in particular on
the apparent emphasis on chastisements:

>Similarly, we should do good because we love God and want to do what is
>pleasing to God.  If we are only doing good and avoiding sin because we fear
>some punishment, it can hardly be beneficial to our relationship with God.

I agree with you wholeheartedly.  But we do possess fallen natures, and
despite baptism, the "bad habits" of this fallen nature are still a part of
us.  Our motives should be pure, and at their best (the saints at the end
of their lives, for example), they are.  But we ARE human and sometimes only
the threat of punishment works to motivate us.

It's like the difference between perfect and imperfect contrition; in the
former we are sorry for the love of God, in the latter we are sorry because
we are afraid of what will happen to us if we are not.  Both are valid in
confession, but true, a person who does so only imperfectly has a ways to go.

Pax,
Fred Chavez
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Stephen A. Creps)
Subject: Re:      Re: The Woman Caught in Adultery (John 8:1-11)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 21:36:25 GMT

In article <930108143846.2e003145@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM> URSIC@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM writes:
>> (2) Even if Scripture is ambiguous,
>>why is not the constant teaching of the Church enough?
>
>Traditional errors are still errors:-)

   Are you saying that what was taught to the Apostles by Jesus was in
error; or do you deny the Apostolic nature of the Church, that what
has been handed down as Sacred Tradition comes through the Apostles
from Christ?

>What is natural and what is unnatural is the question, it appears
>to me that homosexuality is a naturally occurring trait in a
>certain percentage of the population and always has been.

   The Church teaches that because our human natures are damaged by
the sin of Adam and Eve, we are subject to sin.  Are you saying that
since sin comes natural to all humans (except Jesus and Mary), that
there is nothing wrong with it; or do you deny the Church's teaching
on Original Sin?

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps, Indiana University
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
From: mfulsmb@uts.mcc.ac.uk (Martin Barry)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: submission to teaching, conscience, ... sigh.
Date: 12 Jan 93 14:59:37 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre, Manchester, England, M13 9PL.

In article <930111125956.2e005b57@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM> URSIC@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM writes:
>>>Steve Barr.
>>Martin Barry.
>
>Yes, well, I was wondering if these two fellows were related somehow, with
>Steve's family having dropped the "y" upon coming to the States? :-) -J.J.

No, my real name's Featherstonehaugh. I changed it to 'Barry', meaning
'possessing Barr-like tendencies'. I'm receiving treatment.

Martin.
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Date:         Mon, 4 Jan 1993 21:58:27 -0500
From:         mayo@CS.UTK.EDU
Subject:      "One Bread, One Body", Jan 11

                    Monday, January 11, 1993

Hebrews 1:1-6               Psalm 97            Mark 1:14-20

                            NET-WORK

Jesus "observed Simon and his brother Andrew casting their nets into the
sea." --Mark 1:16

Jesus called the fishermen, Simon and Andrew, after observing them casting
their nets into the sea.  When Jesus called them, "they immediately abandoned
their nets and became His followers" (Mk 1:18).  He called the next two
apostles, James and John, while they were putting their nets in order (Mk 1:19).
Nets are mentioned three times in Mark's account of Jesus calling the first
four apostles.  What is the significance of the nets?

From the fish's point of view, nets are traps which take away the fish's
freedom and lead to their death.  When we follow Jesus, we must abandon our
nets.  We must repent of sinful patterns in our lives which have trapped us
and brought about our spiritual death.  Through repentance, we can be free
to follow Jesus.

From the fisherman's point of view, nets are essential to his work.  Therefore,
these nets need to be in order, and the fisherman must cast them into the sea
skillfully and frequently.  The nets are our evangelistic outreach.  To follow
Jesus means to be fishers of men and women (Mk 1:17).  To follow Jesus without
daily and frequently evangelizing is a contradiction.  All Christians must
evangelize.

Leave the nets of sin and cast the nets of faith.


Prayer:  Jesus, may I not let a day go by without telling someone about
         Your love.

Promise: "In times past, God spoke in fragmentary and varied ways to our
          fathers through the prophets.  In this, the final age, He has spoken
          to us through His Son."  Heb 1:1-2

Praise:  Liza celebrates the Sacrament of Reconcilliation every month.
-----
From "One Bread, One Body", reproduced with permission.
 Nihil Obstat: Rev. Edward J. Gratsch
 Imprimatur:  +Most Rev. James H. Garland, V.G.
               Archdiocese of Cincinnati, August 17, 1992.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 11:49:15 HST
From:         Len Howard <tas@PEGASUS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Church rules
              4:06pm)

Hi Betty,  You raise a very good question.  Here in the Diocese of
Hawaii we try to keep lectors up to date with an annual layreader's
workshop, devoted mostly to preparation, but also to liturgical
issues.  This certainly would be one modality for keeping you all up
to speed.  It does not come up often for the majority of the
congregation who only come to mass once a week, so is less of a
problem.  But an annual meeting for your lectors would solve your
problem.
Shalom,                     Len Howard
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Organization: The American University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Tue, 5 Jan 1993 13:18:39 EST
From:         Jim McIntosh <JIM@AMERICAN.EDU>
Subject:      Re: contributions

On Tue, 5 Jan 1993 08:47:52 GMT Fred Rump from home said:
>Now in an ideal world we would all donate with equal fervor and there would be
>no shortage of charitable respources. Sadly such is not the case and every
>organization has to make decisions based upon who is most deserving etc. I
>wonder how you would feel if a situation were to arise where you really needed
>help and no one came forth to offer it. Your pastor tells you that he simply
>can't help every Tom, Dick and Harry as his resources are limited. You would
>then not say, but father I gave this church lots of money over the years and
>now I need help. You would expect God to intercede for you and tell the world
>that you are deserving of help? Humans make those decisions.

I'm sorry, Fred, but this is one time I cannot agree with you. When we
give, we must give freely... not as part of some insurance policy. We
should not give so that we will have first call on the assistance of the
church, and if, when we ask for assistance, the church has people it
feels are more needy, we must accept that humbly. We cannot say "I used
to be rich, and gave you much... so you must now consider me to have the
greatest need and give me the assistance I ask for."

For his part, a good pastor should consider all requests for help and
give to those who can most benefit from the assistance. Granted, I would
respond to requests for assistance from family members before giving to
strangers, but when giving assistance to a family member I would not base
my assistance on how large a Christmas gift I happened to get from the
family member in question. Similarly the pastor may choose to give
preference to parish members when deciding what to do with the parish's
surplus cash, but he should not base that preference on the giving
history of the parish member in question. If the person is a member of
the parish and actively joins in the prayer and worship of the community,
they should the assistance they can be provided regardless of whether
they have ever given even a penny.

I understand maintaining giving histories for tax purposes, and to
encourage additional donations. It is basic fund-raising to treat your
major donors with kid gloves, and to make appeals to those who have the
highest probability of responding. That's fine, and a very standard way
of fund-raising in today's society. The Church should certainly get its
appeals out to compete with the United Way and the other organizations
competing for the charity dollars.

It is, however, a violation of the basic core of the Church's mission to
given any consideration to those giving histories when deciding what to
do with the dollars it is giving to those in need.

Jim McIntosh, SFO (jim@american.edu)
The American University
Washington DC 20016-8019 USA
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: zerucha@shell.portal.com (Thomas E Zerucha)
Subject: Re: The Woman Caught in Adultery (John 8:1-11)
Organization: Portal Communications Company -- 408/973-9111 (voice) 408/973-8091 (data)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 01:05:11 GMT

The problem with homosexuality (and polygamy, and many other things) is that
such a couple cannot constitute "One Flesh".  This is the same reason a valid
marriage is indissoluable.  That form of love (sex, or eros) is reserved for
inside of marriage, and must be open to new life.

Most of the discussion by people saying that homosexual unions should be
recognized are full of touchy-feely language about "meaningful relationship"
and other language that avoids the issue of why marriage is sacred (and why
deviations are evil and a form of sacrilidge against the body and soul).
If anyone can explain how Adam's words, repeated by Jesus about the two
becoming one (and it is specifically monagamous and heterosexual) can occur
in a gay or lesbian relationshiop I would be very interested.

Another point is that the teaching on Homosexuality goes all the way back
to Sodom and Gommorah.  If the Catholic church's teaching (and other churches
and religions as well) has been that consistent, you need more than a quick
dismissial that it has been wrong.  Can you disprove every doctor, saint, and
other teacher of the church?

Also, if homosexuality, why not polygamy?  That has a far more scriptural
basis since you can find examples.  Why can't a man find a meaningful
relationship with multiple women?  If you canput any Significant Other
in the spouse area of a form, why not have multiple blanks?  The point of
this is that if you can find a reason why homosexual unions should be accepted,
on what basis do you now exclude polygamy?  Or bestiality?  Or even Sadism?

To reply to another point, even if homosexuals are "born that way",  20/20
just did a feature on Fetal Alcohol Syndrome children.  They have no
concept of private property.  In effect, they steal, and do not feel that
there is any problem on their part.  Should we except them from the
commandment, as well as laws against larceny?  We are all born with different
temptations, but righteousness is achieved when we don't give into them, not
when we have convinced ourselves that God will make an exception for us since
it was his fault for making us that way in the first place.

---
zerucha@shell.portal.com - main email address
zerucha@fim001.ets.ford.com - work address
Thomas Zerucha / 24075 Lee Baker / Southfield MI 48075 - hardcopy
(313)594-4941 - work phone
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: bobv@spike.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Bob von Buelow)
Subject: Speaking of CNN
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 17:52:08 GMT

BTW, Greg Lefevre of CNN is a fellow graduate of Crespi Carmelite High
School and retains his Catholic values.  He was one year behind me and
is one very nice fellow and always has been.  He is probably the most
famous graduate from our small (~400 students) all boys high school,
although Randy Cross (ex-49er) and Rick Dempsey (World Series MVP)  also 
made a splash in the sports world.

A proud graduate,

Bob

--
Bob von Buelow             Mars Observer Planning and Sequencing Element
bobv@spike.jpl.nasa.gov          - standard disclaimers apply -
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