HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kenneth@ducvax.auburn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Laettner, the final, and the NBA
Date: 9 Apr 92 10:34:58 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <1992Apr7.142940.17843@athena.mit.edu>, mjdaly@athena.mit.edu (Mark J Daly) writes:
> In article <1992Apr6.042810.2252@ducvax.auburn.edu> kenneth@ducvax.auburn.edu writes:
>>> 
>>> How did Ferry manage to be shit in the NBA? Too slow, and didn't 
>>> work enough on his game. Laettner will not make it at his current level.
>>> He has to improve a lot to make it with the athletes in
>>> the NBA.
>>
>>Athletes like Larry Bird of blazing speed and kangaroo-like 
>>leaping ability? :)
> 
> Laettner has many skills which will help a pro basketball team, but
> I don't see him being a star like Bird right away.  Both players
> are great shooters but a lot of Bird's success is derived from his
> uncanny passing ability. Like Laettner, Bird has never been fast or a
> great jumper, but was unstoppable offensively because every time a team
> would try to double-team him, he would see it coming and almost always find
> the teammate who was left open. Last night's game highlighted Laettner's
> shooting ability (in the second half anyway) and his all-around heart and
> competitiveness, but it also highlighted the fact that he is not a great
> passer and can be taken out of his game by aggressive double-teaming
> (first half 6 or 7 turnovers). I think he'll also have to be more selective
> about putting the ball to the floor against the quicker NBA players.

Let's face it, Laettner had a HORRIBLE first half.  He put up a three and
it hit off the lower right corner of the backboard, not even drawing iron.
I don't think you can judge Laettner on that one half of poor play.
Yes, he turned over the ball a lot in the first half, but like a fighter,
he came back in the second half and hit a 2 ond a 3 right away, and finished
the game with like 21 points (I forget the exact number), after only 5 or
so (again, I forget the exact #) in the 1st half.  I remember that Bird
was only known as a shooter out of college.  One thing in Laettner's favor
that I haven't seen mentioned yet, is the fact that Christian is used to
playing people man-for-man.  Duke rarely goes to a zone defense, so at least
he is used to man-for-man defense, unlike "the shaq".  I see Christian
gaining some weight, becoming stronger, and being able to compete.  I don't
see where a lot of people say that he's so slow.  For a 6'11" guy, he 
does very well in moving to the basket with the ball and also moving _without_
the ball, which a lot of college stars aren't able to do as well as Christian.

Ken
 
> I'd take Shaq or Mourning ahead of him - especially if I needed an inside
> player - but who goes first (Mourning or Laettner) may depend on the
> particular needs of the team drafting second rather than who is better.
> 
> Mark Daly
> mjdaly@athena.mit.edu
> 
> PS - watch out for BC next year, they recruited the inside help they 
>      needed for Curley and should be strong...
From: trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: NCAA Worst BB Games
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:56:41 GMT
Reply-To: trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu
Organization: Duke U. Med. Ctr., Durham, NC

>	1.  Duke vs Michigan 1992 Final Game.
>The game stunk!  There were lots of teams which could have beaten either one
>of those pugs.

Like for example, Temple, ETSU, Oklahoma State, Ohio State, Cincinnatti,
Campbell, Iowa, Seton Hall, Kentucky, or Indiana?

Give it a rest.

This game was more of a defensive struggle than a precision run and gun show,
but at least it was competitive for 33 minutes.  Unlike say Duke-UNLV in 
1990, which was pure domination from end-to-end.  

--Robert Clough
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: peppler@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Randy Peppler)
Subject: Re: knight out at IU
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 20:22:36 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.174800.10983@colorado.edu> burtonr@qso.Colorado.EDU (Richard Burton) writes:
>Steve Williams writes:
>>
>>It looks like some of Bobby Knight has rubbed off on Pat.  Would
>>Bobby be proud of Pat's abusive language?  This leads us to the question: 
>>why is Bobby doing the same thing himself?  Talk about being a role
>>model...
>
>Okay, Steve, here is a personal challenge: YOU try to get the attention
>of a bunch of college athlets by yelling "well gosh golly shucky darn,
>fellas! I'm so mad I could yell poop!" Well okay, granted you may get
>their attention, but...

	Hey, T-Bone, this method *works* for Steve Fisher!!

-- 
-------------------------------
| Randy Peppler               |
| Illinois State Water Survey |
| peppler@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu    |
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: marf@athena.mit.edu (Matthew R Feulner)
Subject: Re: What a crappy Championship game
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 01:50:18 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.205438.7465@talon.ucs.orst.edu> navarrer@bionette.CGRB.ORST.EDU (Roy Navarre -- Botany and Plant Pathology) writes:
>Duke-Fab5 sucked. What a letdown. In fact, what a lousy final 4.
>A few more games like this and the Final 4 will be just like the superbowl--
>all hype followed by (more often than not) a pathetic game.
>
>I think this lends support to those of us who think that this was a off year
>in college basketball. Congrats to duke for the repeat--thats hard to do even
>if the opposition play like a bunch of stiffs.  Still this has to be one of the
>weakest championship teams ever to have such a dominating season. I'm not so
>much knocking Duke, as I am knocking the rest of college basketball.  Lets
>hope for a better year next year.
>
>Roy

Amen.  The only team in the final four which looked good was Cincinnati.
Indiana looked good for a half, but then the team that Purdue beat showed up
for the second.

As for an off year - I don't think so.  They all just looked tired.

Laettner, player of the year?  How embarassing.

Matthew Feulner
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: tshannon@ccad.uiowa.edu (Timothy J Shannon)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: 1992 Illini thoughts.
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:10:42 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: CAD-Research, U. of Iowa, Iowa City, Iowa

From article <1992Apr15.162318.3493@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, by jwag9429@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (John Wilbur Althauser):
> Lou is already taking all the good players from Dr. Tom.  Except of course
> those from Joliet, site of the state penitentary.  How appropriate that 
> they be under coach Pearl's instruction.

	Well first of all Pearl isn't that big of role at Iowa but he is still
one hell of alot better of a caoch then Lou has ever had dreams of being.
> 
> As you probably know, Illinois has just hired the best young wrestling 
> coach in the nation.  He assisted Dan Gable for years.  He says he'll
> recruit Illinois h.s. wrestlers (of which there are a lot of good ones.)
> This is going to take away recruits from Iowa, what a shame!!!!!!i

	Even though this is rec.sport.BASKETBALL.college, I feel it mandatory
that I inform you and all how think that they can ever come close to Iowa in
wrestling that they are sorely mistaken.  Iowa is the best wrestiling school 
in the Nation.  That is all I will say on that subject.
> 
> john althauser
> jwag9429@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
-- 
=========================================================================
|| Timothy J. Shannon       tshannon@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu\\92 Wrestling||
|| 248 ERF University of IA tshannon@cadfx.ccad.uiowa.edu ||NCAA CHAMPS||
=========================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: burtonr@qso.Colorado.EDU (Richard Burton)
Subject: Re: The NCAA controls college basketball
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 16:59:01 GMT

Alan McKay writes:
>
>Back in 1987, when UNLV, IU, Syracuse, and Providence all descended on the
>SuperDome in Nawlins, earstwhile Texas coach, Abe Lemons, made an interesting
>prediction: "There's no way that the NCAA is going to let UNLV win this
>thing; read my lips: OFFICIATING!" Now, I'm not saying that the quotable
>Mr. Lemons new something that no one else knew, but it's worthwhile to note
>that even longtime Rebel-basher and SI columnist, Curry Kirkpatrick, made
>the post-tournament observation that several "phantom fouls" (his words)
>were called on UNLV late in the semi-final game with IU which really took
>the Rebels out of it. 

Like those three phantom fouls against IU's Darryl Thomas within the
first three minutes? Look, we went through this game last summer,
claiming that UNLV was shaving points or some of the big money boys
in Vegas had paid off the ref(s), and we had to conclude that IU won
fair and square. Let's give it a rest before it even wakes up.

T-Bone Burton
CASA
Coors U.
"Just last week we saw a moon shaped exactly like Felicity Kendall's
 bottom. We orbitted that a few times." - Holly, Red Dwarf
From: rainbow@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (Rob Buchner)
Subject: ncaa tourney contest
Organization: Turkoise
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 05:56:23 GMT
Keywords: round 5

8 people in the ncaa tourney contest correctly picked 
Michigan as a finalist. 4 of those also picked Duke.
The all time record score of 83 points is history.
The weenie picks have only scored 70 points so far.
Even though our contest leader has a three point
lead with a score of 82, she can still be caught.

at 82 points:
	Sascha Linn		(2 of 2)

at 79 points:
	Harvey Hou		(2 of 2)

at 78 points:
	Mimi Roosli		(1 of 2)

at 77 points:
	Mike Berman		(2 of 2)
	Phil Kesten		(1 of 2)

at 76 points:
	Wing Lee		(2 of 2)
	Jeff Singleton		(1 of 2)

at 75 points:
	Doug Dolven		(1 of 2)

at 74 points:
	Ravi Boddapati		(1 of 2)
	Pete Gayde		(1 of 2)

at 73 points:
	Pete Ko			(1 of 2)

at 72 points:
	George Jordan		(1 of 2)

The following people correctly picked Michigan:
	Mike Berman
	Ellie Cutler
	Scott Decatur
	Harvey Hou
	Kevin Krom
	Wing Lee
	Sascha Linn
	J. A. Snell
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: brown@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (Robert J. Brown)
Subject: Re: IU's comeback.
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: brown@venus.iucf.indiana.edu
Organization: IUCF
Distribution: na
Date:  7 APR 92 10:31:51    

In article <1992Apr6.145432.2918@meaddata.com>, bobj@meaddata.com (Robert Jones) writes...
> 
>Also, why the heck did Meeks shoot that three with 15 seconds to go?
>You've got Leary (who had just hit three of them in 30 seconds) and
>Anderson to go to.  I think Meeks has hit about one three pointer in
>his career.  15 seconds was plenty of time to work the ball around.

  Actually, Jamal Meeks has scored a 3 point basket in almost every game
this season. As a matter of fact, I think that might be his scoring average
for the year: 3. I would have rather seen Leary shoot the shot (it SHOULD
have been Bailey - Hell, the desperation shot should'nt have been neccesary
in the first place!!) but I was not altogether uncomfortable with the way it
was. Duke and the refs just wupped us, that's all!

   ____________________________________________________________
  /\                                                           \____
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          \/________________\ \/_________________/     day   \/__________/
From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Recruiting:  Junior, Jeff Capel
Date: 13 Apr 92 14:32:15 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

In article <11199@borg.cs.unc.edu> brawn@hatteras.cs.unc.edu (Andy Brawn) writes:
>Anyone heard anything on Livingstone?

According to Parade he is a 6'3" guard from Louisiana who can do it all. Had
about 8 teams on his list including Duke, UNC,UCLA,LSU and other basketball
powers if I remember correctly. Randy Livingston is ranked as the top 
senior to be in highschool. I have no idea of his academic standing, I will
find the parade team and post more then.


>--Andy Brawn
>  Go Heels!  Go Bulls!




Russ Smith
*******************************************************************************
"If this were at all legible, you would see what I'm talking about"

                            Chevy Chase in Fletch 
******************************************************************************



Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: matthew@pram.cs.ucla.edu (Matthew Merzbacher)
Subject: Re: The Championship Triangle in N.C.
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: 10 Apr 92 15:50:26 GMT

jb118@prism.gatech.EDU (Jeffrey N. Burch) writes:

>Right, but UK was invited as a *team* to play.  Ol' Dean simply stuffed
>his players onto the roster (and I can't recall the composition of his
>team for the Olympics, but did Smith truly have 8 or 9 out of 12 guys 
>from UNC, as UK did???).  The fact that Deano doesn't brag about such
>things makes me think he didn't have that many.

Four 'Heels played on that '76 Olympic squad.  They were (and are):

Phil Ford - now an assistant coach at Carolina
Walter Davis - still playing in the NBA
Mitch Kupchak - now assistant GM with the Lakers
Tommy LaGarde - I haven't the foggiest where he went

Of the four, only LaGarde probably didn't belong on the team.  Davis and Ford
were very reasonable picks, and Kupchak wasn't unreasonable.

Besides, at least they won, which is what we 'Muricuns are all about, right?
--

Matthew Merzbacher	ARPA:	matthew@CS.UCLA.EDU
Moo - Moo Moo  		UUCP:	...!{uunet|rutgers|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!matthew
               		This time, *with* the oys
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: kevink@fugitive.soac.bellcore.com (Kevin Klinge)
Subject: Re: OKAY, DUKE FANS... WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO NEXT YEAR?
Organization: Bell Communications Research
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 17:25:43 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.165631.16060@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, yl44729@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Ricker) writes:
|> washburn@sparc.ncsu.edu (chris) writes:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> 
|> >One question for all you miserable Duke fans out there:
|> 
|> >What are you going to do next year when you don't have Christian Laettner
|> >to make that miracle last-second shot to get you into the Final Four?
|> 
|> If anything, Duke is going to beat the crap out of NC STATE.
|> 
|> NC STATE won't even make it to the post-season tournament. 

Just wondering, what can we suppose some of these people falling 
for goober bait from an obvious bogus account are going to say when 
Avie's next posted drivel comes from :

valvano@sneakers.ncsu.edu (Jimmy) 

Do you think some of these people (a good number that go to UI
I might add) will catch on then?

I'm not so sure...

-- 

Kevin H. Klinge
Bell Communications Research
kevink@soac.bellcore.com

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From: page@uicadd.csl.uiuc.edu (Ward Page)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Illini - crappy final four team
Date: 15 Apr 1992 20:53:16 GMT
Organization: Coordinated Science Lab., University of Illinois
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: uicadd.csl.uiuc.edu

In article <1992Apr15.162916.14832@cbnewse.cb.att.com> jimf@cbnewse.cb.att.com (james.r.fehrenbacher) writes:
>
>Because that team was incredibly talented, more so than Michigan and
>should have won it all. The only recent team that compares in talent
>was the UNLV team with Augmon and Johnson and maybe Duke this year.

Well, they were talented but not as talented as Michigan.  Michigan had the
talent (but not the coaching) to go undefeated that year.  Illinois was also
not as deep as Michigan.


>4 of those starters played in the NBA - 3 are still playing in the NBA 
>and I believe were 1st or high 2nd round picks (Nick Anderson, Kendall
>Gill, and Kenny Battle). Bardo is playing in the CBA currently.
>Anderson and Gill are averaging nearly 20 pts. a game in the NBA.

Yeah, it was a great team.  But, what noone remembers is that at the
beginning of the season when Jens Kujaba (sp?) went back to Germany everyone
said that Illinois wouldn't make it to the NCAA's at all because there was
noone to take over the big man spot.  Lou completely changed the style of
bball these guys played and it worked.  Remember also, some of these guys
weren't highly recruited. Kendall Gill wasn't recruited by ANY other school
(I think SIU offered him a walk-on spot - not sure).


Ward Page
From: ags@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dave Seaman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: 1993 Tip-Off Classic
Date: 11 Apr 92 06:52:48 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <1992Apr10.175354.5663@doug.cae.wisc.edu> saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu (Brian E. Saunders) writes:
>Sorry to be technical, but doesn't the Big Ten have a rule that says
>conference teams can't play each other in the pre-season?  I remember a few
>years ago (fall 1988) that in some Hawaii tournament, Purdue and Illnois
>could have possibly played in the finals.  I don't remember how they were
>going to handle it, but it didn't matter as Purdue managed to lose.

If a conference allows more than one of its teams to enter the same tournament,
then they implicitly are allowing preseason matchups.  It has happened before,
and in fact Indiana and Ohio State have met at least twice in holiday
tournaments: at the Far West Classic (Portland, Oregon) in 1970 and again at
the Rainbow Classic (Honolulu) in 1974.

-- 
Dave Seaman
ags@seaman.cc.purdue.edu
From: xjam@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU (The Crossjammer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: More bad news on the CBS front
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:57:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: cork.XJAM.92Apr8145723
Organization: University of California, Berserkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cork.cs.berkeley.edu


Just zipping through today's sports page and surprise!

Monday night's game was the highest rated basketball event ever, this
includes the NBA Playoffs as well. Apparently 20.8 million people tuned in
despite CBS's frantic attempts to insult us with Billy "Christian is my
Love Child" Packer and Mike "Doughboy" Francessa. The previous big event
was the Villanova-Georgetown classic of 1985, at 19.9 million if I remember
the article correctly. 

So what does this mean for March Madness? More of the same!! Think about
it, a pretty mediocre game, broadcast fairly poorly and CBS still comes out
with a relatively huge audience. They must be frantically searching the
ranks of sportscasters looking for washed up college coaches, and no
nothing pundits. Here's to radio!

--
            xjam@cork.Berkeley.EDU	

They can't come on and play me in prime time, 		
Cause I know the time, cause I'm gettin' mine.		
I get on the mix late in the night... -Public Enemy

Fiiiive Thousand Boomin Watts...... -The JBeez
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: srt@aero.org (Scott "TCB" Turner)
Subject: Re: Duke players judged by NBA standards
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 18:26:21 GMT

(Cliff Slaughterbeck) writes:
>The best NBA prospect on Duke's team is without question Grant Hill.  He can
>shoot, play defense, drive, finish, play some point, rebound (esp. good at
>the offensive boards), and drive the team bus.  IMHO, he is the next 
>Scottie Pippen without the two years of adjusting from Central Arkansas to
>the bigtime.

I think Hill will probably be an off-guard in the mold of say, Ron
Harper, but otherwise I agree.  He'll be an instant contributor as well.
He's got the fundamentals to play whatever role he's assigned.

>Second best prospect is (and I really hate saying this) Bobby Hurley.  He
>has an uncanny ability to nail important hoops.  Great assist to turnover
>ratio, and decent defensively.  Not as good as say, John Stockton, but with
>the same type of game.  Will end up a solid NBA point guard.

Here I disagree with you.  In the NBA, point guards have to have the
quickness and defensive ability to guard people like Kevin Johnson,
and I don't think Hurley has that ability.  (Although I must say that
I was impressed that Hurley was able to guard Jalen Rose the whole
way.)  I think Hurley will be a benchwarmer in the Steve Kerr mold,
although if he can extend his range to the NBA line (and learn to
shoot the 3 from somewhere other than the top dead center of the
circle), he'll improve his prospects.

>Third is Laettner.  I've already compared him to Detlef Schrempf.  He can
>shoot well and has a lot of desire.  The question will be his quickness.
>I don't know if he can drive on the much quicker big men in the NBA, but
>there is always a place for 6'11" guys who have inside-outside games.

I think Laettner will have a place in the NBA for a team that will
accomodate him.  He's not good enough that he can take whatever is
available - but if a team is willing to adjust to his abilities, I
think he'll make a solid player.  He's a hard call, admittedly.

					-- Scott T.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: peppler@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Randy Peppler)
Subject: Re: Tournament Coverage
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 16:46:45 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.150028.17164@walter.bellcore.com> kevink@fugitive.soac.bellcore.com (Kevin Klinge) writes:
>
>Yes, but the announcer's criticisms on Michigan were right on.  The team
>was turning the ball over left and right, which resulted in many UC points
>during the first half.

	Neither one of the semifinal games was a thing of beauty.  Maybe
	it's the pressure?  Neither lived up to the level that the UK-
	Duke game reached, in my opinion.  Let's hope for a great one
	tonight!

-- 
-------------------------------
| Randy Peppler               |
| Illinois State Water Survey |
| peppler@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu    |