HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tamada@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael K. Tamada)
Subject: Re: Laimbeer IS over-rated
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 23:52:16 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.212237.14969@aquila.sni-usa.com> obrien@sni-usa.com writes:
>
>One point here which not brought up was how durable the guy has been.  He
>has played virtually every game since the Pistons acquired him.  Most other
>centers have had pretty significant "down-time" (Parrish, Malone).  The

     Robert Parish has missed only 52 games in 16 seasons, Moses has
missed 65 games in 16 seasons.  They are two of the more durable centers 
in NBA history (along with Laimbeer, 6 games in 12 seasons).  For 
comparison, Ewing has missed 54 games in 7 seasons, Olaujuwon 62 
in 8, and Robinson 24 in 3.

>I think [the Pistons] are the most interesting champions the
>NBA has seen in a while because the whole was so much greater than the sum
>of the parts:  A center who couldn't block shots, only one legit low-post
>scorer (Edwards), a very inconsistent 3rd guard (VJ), a forward (Rodman)
>who basically scored by accident, etc.  I think a lot of teams in the 
>league have at least as much talent, but haven't accomplished nearly as
>much in the last 7-8 years.

     Completely agree that the whole was greater than the sum of the
parts with the Pistons.  However, the exact same thing, except more
so, applies to the Bulls!  Bulls fans may be insulted when observers
say they don't have much talent (beyond one Hall of Famer and one
bona fide All-star), but in fact the Bulls win not because of 
superior talent but rather because of superior play -- teamwork,
defense, hustle, etc. etc.  My hat is off to them; along with 
the '75 Warriors, I think they are the NBA champions that got
the most by PLAYING well, rather than having the best talent.
And unlike the Warriors they were able to repeat.
     To use the analysis above, the Bulls have a center who couldn't
block shots (or do much else, except play solid defense), no legit
low-post scorer (not counting Michael), a 3rd guard who will never
be called the Microwave, and a point guard who basically scored only when
left unguarded  (Rodman by the way scored more points than Paxson
last year:  9.8 points per game to 7.0).
     As Bulls fans I think will be quick to agree, you can match
the Bulls up against a lot of teams and in terms of player-by-player
talent the Bulls come out second best.  But on the court, they've
come out first best two years running.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  |__	       o
  | W			   Mike Tamada
		  |\	   Institutional Research Office
		   \O	   Occidental College
		    |      tamada@oxy.edu
		   /|
		  | |
From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Angola's coach
Keywords: "they play no defense"
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:24:23 GMT

OK, I've seen enough people laughing at Angola's coach for saying the US
team plays no defense. Sure they got smoked, sure we held them under 50
but IMHO what he is saying is the same thing Chuck daly said during the 
TOA. Daly said he was apalled at how easy it was for the other teams
guards to penetrate into the lane. He said his guards were relying too
much on the shotblockers inside and he would encourage them to move
their feet and play a little better defense. From what I saw in the 
Angola game, they were playing the same style, go for the steal, if
you miss and the guy blows by, hope for the block or try to strip him
from behind. This works fine against Angola, but who knows what could
happen against Croatia or Lithuania, we could get some guys in foul
trouble and get into a real scary game. I'm still expecting an easy
cakewalk to the gold medal, but I don't think the Angolan coach made
an unintelligent remark, or if it was stupid, then so was Dayly for 
saying practically the same thing.




Russ Smith
*******************************************************************************
"Mellow is the man, who knows what he's been missing
many, many men can't see the open road".
                                    Over the hills and far away- Led Zeppelin  
******************************************************************************




Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: martyp@engin.umich.edu (Martin Pochmara)
Subject: Re: JORDON OUT WITH BROKEN JAW!
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 10:29:17 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Distribution: usa

>In defense of Gidi and Jerray, I believe the original poster had spelled
>Jordan's name wrong about 3 times, consistently.  And since the 'o' and
>the 'a' aren't really that close together, I'm going to fathom a guess that
>the original poster didn't know better.
>

I did know better! I guess I wasn't thinking when I wrote the Post....now
my self confidence is really low....and I don't know if I can ever live this
one down......
Imagine writing to rec.religion and mispelling GODS name! ;)

					Marty

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: paulg@microsoft.com (Paul Goode)
Subject: Re: Average Centers
Date: 23 Jul 92 19:50:51 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Distribution: na
Summary: Free Throw

In article <1992Jul22.193213.28638@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>, u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei) writes:
> >always what it could be, and Robinson could be a much better
> >free throw shooter.)
> 
> Come on.  Perhaps you can say something about Ewing not being perfect, but
> Robinson and Hakeem (excluding last season) are A+'s.  Let's face it,
> Michael Jordan could improve his shooting %, his 3 point %, his free throw
> %, could block more shots, could steal a bit more and grab more rebounds
> too.  But he has no category which isn't already very good.
>

Here's my problem: You rate 1/9 of the starting centers in league
as A+'s, and all ratings below them start getting pulled up, because
they get assigned relative to the A+'s, not to a set of standards.
I mean, Koncak and Rasmussen = C? At some point, you don't have a
true picture of where they really stand. Heck, in my book, Michael
Jordan is the only A+ player in the league, with Magic retired and
Bird fading. 
 
> So maybe Hakeem and Robinson aren't perfect, but they excel at a lot of
> things centers aren't supposed to do.  Top five in steals?  How many
> rebounding and shot blocking titles do they have between each other?
> Besides, centers, suck at free throws...
> 

As others have pointed out, not all 'em, by any means. The Spurs
are one of the worst FT shooting teams in the league, and Robinson
probably goes to the line 10 times a game. Since he draws so many 
fouls, I really need him to shoot 80% from the line; otherwise, he
encourages the fouls and winds up hurting his game.

Also, I'm not saying that the guy is a C. I'm saying that he's an
A who would be an A+ by improving a particular aspect of his game.

Paul
From: u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: The Invincible Knicks
Date: 28 Jul 92 21:28:44 GMT
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore

In article <Bs45nC.3C3@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jbs21045@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Joe Sterbenc) writes:
>I think the Knicks have become rather overrated.
>
>Blackmon (sp?) is a good scorer, but he's also pretty old and can't do much
>else. _If_ they'd snatched Harvey Grant, I would be quivering with everyone
>else, but they didn't.
>
>The Knicks are still short a good power forward and to some degree a point
>guard. Further, all this Knick-pumping desperately depends on X-man NOT
>playing the regular season anything like this past one - and I don't think
>he can sustain the his playoff level.
>
>The biggest threat to the Bulls is, was, will be the Cavs. The Knicks won't
>make the conference finals, and if the rest of their division wasn't falling
>apart, I wouldn't pick them to win the division.

NOT.  Whatever you might say about the Knicks, the fact is, after years of
having absolutely no character, they've gotten some determination back into
their program.  Meanwhile the Cavs still wreak from giving up Ron Harper
and really gave the Bulls a lot less trouble than New York.  Cleveland is
still missing a few pieces.  They have no swingmen, and since that's where
the control of the game (with Pippen/Jordan) lies against Chicago, it's
unlikely that they'll be able to beat them.

Meanwhile, the Knicks are really moving towards trying to compete with the
Bulls.  You said something about Harvey Grant being important, but I don't
think he's as important as Blackman is.  For all of New York's possible
weapons, they never had a dependable outside shooter, nor had they had
one with a conscience.  Starks is destined to be on the bench, and Gerald
Wilkins never had the outside touch for a two guard.  Double and triple
Ewing, because the only danger is Starks heating up from three point land.
And if he's cold...he'll keep launching them and doom the team.  Blackman
may be on the downside of his career, but teamed with Ewing and X, I'm
sure he'll get back to 50% shooting, which is something the Knicks haven't
had (minus Ewing) forever, especially from the perimeter.

And if NY gets a hold of Harper.....
From: dxj@cci632.cci.com (Dennis Joyce)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Olympic hoops referees
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:22:51 GMT
Organization: [Computer Consoles, Inc., Rochester, NY

In article <l7b7c5INN1gi@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> ma@bluedevil.Eng.Sun.COM (Shing C. Ma) writes:
>Camps.  The Deam Team will be because it played with the best the
>other countires of the world have to offer.  NBA Champs == World
>Champs --- what a joke.
>
>-shing

The NBA showcases the BEST players in the world. There is no doubt that these 
are the BEST players. So you are saying that the '92 Bulls or the '90 Lakers 
weren't the best in the world becuase they didn't play the Spanish/Italian 
league team? Are you for real? Do you really think that any Int. team could beat
a NBA squad in a best of seven series? I doubt they could win one. Don't go throwing the McDonald Game (Knicks vs Italians (?)) around. The Europeans were in Mid season form and the Knicks were in Training Camp.

Bring on the Italian league champs or the Spanish champs or even the Aussie 
champs it would be fun to see all those ex-NBA scrubs and mediocre NCAA players

I haven't seen Bob McAdoo in years.....
From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Average Centers
Date: 22 Jul 92 22:25:29 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

In article <Brt6JH.HpH@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J ) writes:
>	it's really a mental thing.  For example, Mike McGee and Otis Birdsong
>	were big-time sharpshooters in their heyday in the NBA.  Yet they had
>	no clue at the line.  It's really a matter of the mind, not necessarily
>	skill.
>
To some people, shooting a free throw is so foreign its hard. Great
jumpshooters like Birdsong feel "strange" standing motionless at the line
shooting. I've always noticed that the more freethrows I shot in a give
situation, the better I shot them. Repetition is very important, in a free
throw contest/fundraiser in highschool I shot 83%, but I was over 90% in
my last 100. we shot them in blocks of 50. In games I was around 75%.
The main difference other than fatigue and pressure IMHO is that in a game
teh most you get to shoot in a row is 2, in practice you don't even have to
move your feet, just stand there catch the ball and shoot it. Of course no
amount of repetition will make a bad shooter into a good one(see Chris
Dudley) since practicing bad technique is counter productive. I shoot
freethrows with completely different form than I shoot a jumper because
2 me the shots are totally different.




Russ Smith
*******************************************************************************
"I want a world where I can eat a sea otter without getting sick!"

Leslie Nielsen in the Naked Gun 2 1/2
******************************************************************************





Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: billms@eecs.umich.edu (William Mangione-Smith)
Subject: Re: POGO-stick RETIRES (yes,aint kidding)
Organization: University of Michigan
	<1992Jul23.194033.23355@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
	<1992Jul23.210755.14674@brtph560.bnr.ca>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 00:12:04 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.210755.14674@brtph560.bnr.ca> markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:

   In article <1992Jul23.194033.23355@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami) writes:
   >Among the reasons they said he gave for wanting to retire were Chuck
   >Daly's departure and lack of new challenges.

   Maybe he could challenge himself to score on the offensive end without it 
   having to be a put-back from an offensive board... ;^)

Maybe you could look up his 3pt shooting and explain your definition of a put
back.  Maybe you could inject a bit of reality into your rabid and inane
postings.  

Bill
--
-------------------------------
	Bill Mangione-Smith
	billms@eecs.umich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: law@law.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Patrick Law)
Subject: Dream Team - France
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:04:55 GMT


An error for my previous post.

Drexler scored only 8 pts.

Stats:

USA 111 France 71

USA
Malone 2-5 2-2 6
Bird   1-3 0-0 2
Ewing  2-4 1-2 5
Jordan 10-16 1-2 21
Johnson 2-4 3-4 8
Robinson 5-6 1-1 11
Pipen  1-2 0-0 2
Drexler 4-8 0-0 8
Mullin  8-14 0-0 16
Barkley 10-13 1-4 21
Laettner 5-6 1-1 11
Totals 50-81 10-16 111
From: se3@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Stanley Eng)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Free Basketball Game
Date: 31 Jul 92 14:27:10 GMT
Organization: Columbia University

I am making available to all you readers out there a text 
basketball game that I have written.  It is called "Pro Hoops."
It is free - all you have to do is E-mail me at the address 
given below.

All that is needed to run the game is an IBM PC Compatible 
machine with GWBASIC or BASIC.  The game plays with real
NBA teams and players.




	,----   ,----                               
	|____   |____         Stanley Eng           
	     |  |                                   
	 ----'  '----	  se3@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu
From: erick.meunier@cemef.cma.fr
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Basket Ball Pictures
Date: 24 Jul 92 08:11:15 GMT
Reply-To: erick.meunier@cemef.cma.fr ()
Organization: Ecole des Mines, Sophia Antipolis - FRANCE


Hi,

  I just connected to "ftp.funet.fi" and in the directory 
"/pub/pics/gif/pics/sport" I found a gif picture (small one) of jordan 
(jordan1.gif) dunking during a game against the Clippers I believe.
  Unfortunately, there were no other BasketBall gif pictures...

  This picture was edited by a Company called: 
             MBIC (for MegaByte Image Center)
             phone: (918) 298 - 1901

  There was also another MBIC gif picture of a Nike Advertisement 
(mbnike.gif).

  Perhaps one of you would know where I could find other BasketBall
pictures ?
  Or one of you could phone this Company to know if those images are
freely available and where to get them.

Thanks in advance.

Regards.
Erick.
--

        |                  Erick Meunier.
     __ |__ o\             Ecole des Mines de Paris.
    /|  | W   \            B.P. 207
   / |        0            06904 Sophia Antipolis - FRANCE.
  /  |      _/ \           Phone: +33 93.95.75.43  Fax: +33 93.65.43.04
     |         |           e-mail: erick.meunier@cemef.cma.fr    
              / \ 
 Go Bulls   _/   \_

  "Whatever happens, I leave it all to chance... "  Freddy Mercury (QUEEN).
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: mchavez@helix.nih.gov (Mark D. Chavez)
Subject: Re: Dr. J dunk
Keywords: Dr. J
Organization: National Institutes of Health, Bethesda
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 15:18:59 GMT

In article <1992Jun30.144823.9253@pixel.kodak.com> fbrown@ssd.kodak.com (Frank Brown) writes:
>In article <jkristof.709505369@lucpul.it.luc.edu> jkristof@lucpul.it.luc.edu (NiteLine) writes:
>>In <16811BD55.PA113718@utkvm1.utk.edu> PA113718@utkvm1.utk.edu writes:
>>
>>>Bob Beamon's world record was broken ten years earlier than anyone had
>>>suspected.  BTW, nothing against the Doc (who was surely one of the greats),
>>>but _anything_ he could do, Jordan could do better.
>>

Doug Collins on TNT stated that Dr. J could dunk the basketball from a 
standing start **out of bounds** from behind the backboard.  When he was
coach of the, correction, Da Bulls, he asked Jordan if he could do it.
Chalk one up for Dr. J.  He did some truly amazing feats in the ABA which
went unnoticed for the most part.

>>Could he block a Kareem sky hook?  Dr. J. is the only one to ever do that.
>
>Larry Nance also did it. I did not see the Doc do but I saw Nance block the
>sky hook cleanly.

I believe Wilt Chamberlain had accomplished this as well, although I'm
quite sure he didn't do it 20,000 times!  :)

>
>Frank
>
>

Mark.
mchavez@helix.nih.gov
From: radkel@canctr.mc.duke.edu (R.CLOUGH)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: 1988 "Dream" (nightmare) Team
Date: 29 Jul 92 17:59:46 GMT
Reply-To: radkel@canctr.mc.duke.edu
Organization: Duke U. Med. Ctr., Durham, NC

In article <STDKAP1.92Jul29043001@icarus.spc.uchicago.edu>, stdkap1@icarus.spc.uchicago.edu (Dietrich Kappe) writes:

>Coach Thompson also doesn't seem to make adjustments well when faced with 
>unexpected game situations. His solution always seems to be going with the 
>best defenders and exhorting them to play tighter D.

You hit the nail on the head.  I saw an interview with A. Gomelsky, the 
Soviet coach in '88, who talked a bit about Thompson.  He said that Thompson's
team and his plan were good, but that Thompson couldn't adjust to the curves 
the Soviets threw at them.  Every time a Soviet player drove into the lane,
five US players would converge on them, and the Soviet would just kick it
out for an open three.  Thompson just kept the same defense.  Perhaps he
expected the Soviets to start missing their shots, or was just too stubborn
to admit his defense wasn't working.

--Rob Clough
From: strauss@uncavx.unca.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: New to list. Some comments
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:37:58 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
Nntp-Posting-User: strauss

I am new to this group, and enjoying it very much. Especially the Celtics'
fans. I get Celtics Pride, so that even here, in the boonies, I can follow my
team.

I saw some messages about John Thompson. He *has* produced some great NBA
centers, but I think he didn't realize in '88 that talent would not be enough:
3-point shooting is necessary against the international game.

And what a weird style it is, too!  I thought we'd be shown up, a bit, but it's
the other way around.  They put WAY too much emphasis on 3 pointers, and little
on passing, blocking and moving.  I think the American way of (basketball) life
is safe for a while to come.  The game against Croatia: I think we can hold any
other team to diddly, but can score more than that game. Hope we play them    
again.
I think Sabonis and Schmidt are GREATLY overrated, but Dino Radja looks
surprisingly good.

Bob Strauss
again!
From: lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Enough
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:36:11 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Jul28.144855.7241@ll.mit.edu> nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith) writes:
>>1) The bogus call was called with 2-ish seconds left. If you want to count
>>   bogus calls with N seconds left in the game, there should be a recount for
>>   Boston, including when the score was tied, the phantom foul on Danny Boy
>   i thought we were not listing fouls...
I thought we were not listing any calls before the buzzer either .....

>>Even if (notice the hypothesis) that's a start, you still only get ONE.
>me?  i'm trying to help you.
Really? My claim was that such after-buzzer bogus calls  are in the 
Celtics favor. Listing such a call in the Lakers' favor is NOT helping
me. As a matter of fact, if you can list a few such calls for EVERY TEAM,
then you can support Meeks' case of "home jobs that happen everywhere ...."

-- 
                                          Edward Lor
                                          lor@cbnewsk.att.com
                                          
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: exujeff@exu.ericsson.se (Jeff Thompson)
Subject: Re: Help ME Please!!!!!!!!!!!\
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 18:13:26 GMT

Is your confusion based on M.J's BASEBALL card?
If so, that was just a MONEY deal.





In article <1992Jul22.212736.58183@uvmark.uucp> davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks) writes:
>From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
>Subject: Re: Help ME Please!!!!!!!!!!!\
>Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 21:27:36 GMT

>In article <1992Jul22.124355.14065@husc3.harvard.edu> vreddy@husc3.harvard.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Jul21.231512.21338@lsil.com>, twright@smcl415.smkt (Tom Wright) writes:
>>> In article 9978@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au, s1073200@giaec.cc.monash.edu.au (P.Jackson-Highlander) writes:
>>>>
>>>>HI I need some help.
>>>>
>>>>    Is Micheal JOrdan playing baseball???? If so who for and how is he going??
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Thanks for your replies in advance!!!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Paul
>>>>    Australia
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> No way!! You are probably thinkin of Ricky Jordan of the Phillies. 
>>> 
>>> Tom Wright 
>>> twright@lsil.com
>>
>>Yeah... THE Michael Jordan (who, by the way, had a beautiful missed dunk
>>in the series against New York, as we all know!) DOESN'T play baseball.
>>His best sport outside of basketball is golf (and he's not that bad).

>Actually, the Michael Jordan of the Chicago Bulls, etc..  was quite a 
>talented baseball player in high school, much more so than basketball.
>He thought originally he was going to try and go pro, and I think I remember
>that he was either drafted or had some scouts look at him.  He has been asked
>about it at times and has ???jokingly??? stated he wouldn't mind playing.
>However, Golf is his passion, whereas Basketball is his job, and baseball
>is his afterthought..

>>
>>-- Venk Reddy --


>-- 
>David T. Meeks                    ||" We are jigsaw pieces, aligned on the 
>VMark Software, Inc.              ||  perimeter edge, 
>uvmark!davem@merk.com             ||  interlocked through a missing piece"
>davem%uvmark@merk.com             ||" ...This world is totally Fugazi"
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Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: waterski@leland.Stanford.EDU (Mark T. Stacey)
Subject: Predictions.....
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 20:43:14 GMT

NBA predictions:

(i) Charlotte Hornets not only qualify for the 1993 NBA playoffs, but upset
the Boston Celtics to move into the second round.

(ii) Alonzo Mourning surprises everyone by having a better season than the Shaq
and wins Rookie of the Year.

(iii) Shaq drops to number three in the RotY balloting after Jimmy Jackson 
leads the Mav's to their best season in years.

(iv) NBA Champs....Phoenix Suns.  No big surprise.

(v)  Runners up....Cleveland Cavaliers finally get over the hump with a healthy
Mark Price and beat da'bulls in the semis.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro