HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian/Asian American Conflicts
Keywords: Listerine Antiseptic, Charmin
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:16:39 GMT
Organization: RAND Corporation.

In article <1992Aug28.155057.3017@u.washington.edu> gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu (Just another theatre geek.....) writes:
>In article <1992Aug28.052647.14367@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>In article <17k9voINN345@network.ucsd.edu> hirota@sluggo.sdsc.edu
>>(Bryan Hirota) writes:
>>>I suspect that had my family not been interned during
>>>World War II, I probably would feel more interest in
>>>Japan, but maybe not.  My father's side of the family
>>>was not interned (he's from Hawaii).  They're not
>>>very Japanese either.
>>>Maybe it's a difference in Chinese/Japanese thinking?
>>Yes.  Most definitely.
>
>	Nope.  Most definitely.  Check the research.  Generational in nature.

Nope, most likely.  I think the generational difference predominates,
but in my experience a second- (child of immigrant) or third- (grandchild
of immigrant) generation Chinese American is more likely to claim a
Chinese indentity than the average Nisei or Sansei will claim a Japanese
identity.  The experiences of the two groups were pretty different from
the war on, with Japanese Americans being faced rather forcefully with
an "either/or" question concerning Japanese vs. American identity.
(Internment was only a part of this--war has a way of forcing people
to take sides.)  The imprint of that era remains, I think.  Chinese
Americans, in my experience, are more likely to claim /both/ Chinese and
American identities, within a given generation.

But to a first approximation, I think Roger is right: generational
differences predominate.  And the other differences are likely more
historical than a matter of ancestral culture.  So I'd restate Bryan's
question as "a difference in Chinese-American/Japanese-American
thinking."

		-Ed Hall
		edhall@rand.org
From: gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu (Just another theatre geek.....)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Kennedys (was Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions)
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:40:01 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <MDAY.92Aug26223214@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu> mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day) writes:
>   jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak) writes:
>   3. Who's going to elect a Black Senator?  Certainly not Massachusetts in the
>      '40s or '50s.
	^^^     ^^^

>At the risk of nitpicking, let me say that this one point isn't very
>convincing.  If memory serves properly, Massachusetts elected a black
>senator (Edward Brooke) who served from 1967 to 1979.  Given that
					 ^^^^    ^^^^

>piece of reality, I might well argue that a "black Kennedy" could have
>been elected in the 40s or 50s. 

	Riggghhhht.

	You could argue that.  But it wouldn't be very convincing.

-- 
Roger Tang gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu
Executive Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW;
	The definition of having balls is a non-singer who goes karaoke singing 
with the cast of a musical revue.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: IYI4DTN@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Gann Matsuda)
Subject: Re: Elaine Chao named to head United Way
Date: 28 Aug 92 03:27:30 PDT

In article <1992Aug27.184346.11597@ee.gatech.edu>, on 27 Aug 92 18:43:46 GMT,
wung@eecom.gatech.edu (Peter Wung) writes:

>
>Here is something I got from the USA-Today newsgroup, without permission, of course.
>
>Pete Wung
>
>
>In article 055907@AmeriCast.com, usa-post@AmeriCast.Com () writes:
>>|DECISIONLINE: News
>>|USA TODAY Update
>>|Aug. 27, 1992
>>|Source: USA TODAY:Gannett National Information Network
>>|CHAO MOVES TO UNITED WAY:
>>|   Peace Corps Director Elaine Chao, the highest ranking
>>|Asian-American in the Bush administration, will quit to become
>>|president of the United Way of America. Chao, 38, a China native
>>|who came to the USA in 1961, will leave the Peace Corps post by
>>|November. United Way has struggled since February to regain public
>>|trust weakened by accusations against former president William
>>|Aramony.
>>|
>>|
>>|
>>|News Editor: Kate Coughlin. (1-919-855-3491) Making copies of USA
>>|TODAY Update (Copyright, 1992) for further distribution purposes
>>|violates federal law.
>>|
>>|This article is copyright 1992 Gannett News Service.  Redistribution to
>>|other sites is not permitted except by arrangement with American
>>|Cybercasting Corporation.  For more information, send-email to
>>|usa@AmeriCast.COM

Well, from what I've seen of her (and I've met her), she's basically
a sell-out.  Almost to the point of saying that we need to deny our
heritage and "blend in" with the majority (read: discard our cultures
and identities).  That's her philosophy.

Gann Matsuda
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Fester, the know-it-all (was Re: Caucasians don't understand)
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 15:04:42 GMT

In article <25795@dog.ee.lbl.gov> yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang) writes:
>(all deleted)
>
>Mike wanted to make sure I read his reply, because he also sent
>it to me on e-mail after I had already posted my reply.  
>I want to thank Mike for the e-mail because it gave me another
>chance to read what he wrote, and detect something strange in
>his fountain of knowledge.

>Thanks for Mike's hint, but I'm afraid he's way off base. I'm
>frankly surprised that, having lived in Japan, he would make such
>a statement (could it be that he wasn't interested or just didn't 
>care about the Koreans when he was in Japan ? :-)). 

Or perhaps, you don't care about them.
 
>The Korean community in Japan is a legacy of Japanese imperialism 
>and actually newer than the Asian American, let alone the African 
>American community ! According to the _Keihokyoku Report_ (Naimusho, 
>1945), the Korean population in Japan was : 

Koreans have been moving into Japan for millenia, and there is very good 
evidence that the Imperial court is of Korean descent.

>     1909     790      1930      298,091 
>     1915   3,989      1940    1,190,444 
>     1920  30,175      1944    1,936,843 

>Before Japanese annexation, there was no Korean community to speak of.  
>After that, there was a steadily increasing trickle who went to 
>Japan in search of work, which during the war years turned into mass
>involuntarily labor conscription that pushed the Korean population

The "involuntary labor" started well before the war.

>p.s., Mike, don't humor us with historical anecdotes about the 
>rumored Korean ancestry of the Japanese imperial line 1500 years 
>ago, or Hideyoshi's importation of Korean potters and scholars 
>500 years ago :-).

Right, they don't count.

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - I'm only doing what the little voices tell me to do.
From: llf@alice.att.com (alice!llf)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:07:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23571
Reply-To: llf@alice.UUCP (alice!llf)
Distribution: na
Organization: New Jersey State Home for Bewildered Kittens

In article <26AUG199210144312@vxcrna.cern.ch> ikeda@vxcrna.cern.ch (IKEDA,M./EP) writes:
>I don't think that only non-Asian Americans were against what Judy said.
>In fact, I myself believe that Judy and Hoyt Sze's philosophy is absolutely
>nutty.  IMHO, of course.  Why was I silent?  Because there were already

I find Judy's postings and Hoyt's articles not just nutty, I vehemently
disagree with their positions, philosophies, and stated goals.  On the other
hand, I, generally, see no reason to post about it, others do it for me.
So I'm another AA data point against it.

Lynda
-- 
					Member HASA, Atheist-Scum Division
"The One Horseman and Three Pedestrians of the Apocalypse" - Terry Pratchet
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: tloh@husc8.harvard.edu (Teck Loh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 3 Sep 92 23:05:19 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1992Sep3.075409.23309@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.070444.8226@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
>ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) writes:
>>...
>>so
>>many Asian Americans have swallowed the myth that their genes somehow
>>magically give them cultural, linguistic, and political rights and knowledge
>>in some Asian country (and therefore, that they can't possibly be fully
>>American).
>>...
>
>Finally, Mr. Hu types a paragraph with which I can partially agree.
>
>But it would be an even more accurate paragraph if if "Asian" were replaced
>with "Chinese-cu (and concurrently Chinese-ge)".
>

Finally, you realise how lonely you were in these groups. But, you are still
alone with your so called "chinese-cu, ge". Every problems in the world is
caused by the your so called "chinese-cu, ge,etc" What a racist you are?
You are just a "lost boy" trying very hard to find your identity. Try harder!!

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
>Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
>                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
>Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

T-P Loh
From: leejs@aphrodite.ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: studying chinese culture
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:37:29 GMT
Organization: UC San Diego, Physics Department


hello! i would like to receive some input on the matter of studying one's
own culture. i am a second generation chinese american. i have felt since
i was a boy a need to understand what it really means to be chinese. 
i can still remember wishing to attend chinese school as a boy because
 i never learned to
speak chinese from my family.  my opportunity to study finally arrived
 here in college. the experience was great! i truly wish to understand more.

however, i have rarely met any american-born chinese who seemed to express
the kind of excitement from thinking about one's origins. 

how do you feel?

sincerely,

jeffrey s. lee
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, clueless old white boy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:24:23 GMT
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, clueless old white boy)
Distribution: soc
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <SHAW.92Sep3092002@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu> shaw@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:
>I do not want AMERICAN to be equivalent to WHITE.

Your point, Andy, is what I've been trying to make for several
years.  What we should all want to establish is that 
"American" covers many diverse cultures and races, and be
rid of the idea that "American" means "white, anglo-saxon,
rich religious male person".  WHITE hardly covers it,
I think.  After all, George Bush himself has said that
I (and any number of other people with non-Christian religious
beliefs) canNOT be a "good American", hasn't he?  (You
are referred to alt.athiesm FAQ for references.)

>No.  But what you have to say does not affect me to the extent that it
>might if you considered yourself an Asian-American.  And you aren't --
>you're Chinese in your mind, and therefore, Chinese in your actions and
>motivations. 
So?  You mean, then, that since he doesn't accept YOUR
definition of who he should be, you will ignore him.
That is, after all, what you are saying.  It's nothing
but another exclusionary, separatist requirement for 
"membership".  Isn't that your complaint with the "elite"
society already?  Why do you adopt your complaint as a 
tactic?

>You take advantage of your privileges as an American, but it
>is clear that your loyalties lie elsewhere.  Fine ... bark all you want:
>it's your right, but it's certainly my right to view your opinions with
>contempt, or to simply ignore them, or to deflate them, or at times, to
>agree.
In other words, you ignore the words of those you consider
race traitors.  How similar to other viewpoints this is.
It sounds a lot like George Bush, or Stroessner, or the
Africaans party line, doesn't it?

Two wrongs don't make a right, they make a war.

>You can't hurt me, and furthermore, you can't hurt the formation of an
>Asian-American identity, because it's bigger than you and me, and it's
>going to happen.
Not in a million years, if you keep trying to form it in your
racist, exclusionary, politically-correct-as-you-see-it fashion.

It will tear itself apart under the stresses  you build into
it, and faster than you can build it.

>   I like working from a position of strength.  It gains respect.  It
>   also seems to help get into the "power elite."

If you like working from a position of strength, why not try
to build allies to help you achieve strength, rather than
make enemies that will try to thwart you at every turn?
-- 
Extremism *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   in the    *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
  defense of     *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 liberty is no vice.  *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:8803 soc.culture.china:24712
From: v110r9av@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Ning Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.china
Subject: Later Guys
Date: 4 Sep 92 02:07:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


I'll be back.. (in another year or two)

Till then,
The Wangman
From: kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 29 Aug 1992 18:46:57 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, Rice University

In article <1992Aug24.181200.7419@oakhill.sps.mot.com> jpak@manute.sps.mot.com (Kinder and Gentler Jim) writes:
>In article <5068@dove.nist.gov> hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira) writes:
>>That professor you're thinking of is Arthur Hacker I believe, who 
>>recently wrote a book on the subject of racial barriers, etc. He's been
>>featured on a number of TV shows (I saw him on Tony Brown's journal),
>>radio shows (NPR), and newspapers. The book apparently is replete with
>>statistics documenting the differences primarily between african american
>>and white american society in terms of socieconomic power and opportunity.
>>It seems to have been quite a provocative book, and is next on my reading
>>list.
>
>Anybody know the name of that book?  It does indeed sound interesting.

It's *Two Nations: Black and White, Separate, Hostile, Unequal* by Andrew
Hacker.  It was a bestseller (if it still is, Bookstop sells them at 40%
off).  As you might expect, the book is quite one-sided, but I enjoyed the
book very much.

Responding to another post, they show a picture on the cover of a white male;
I suppose it's a picture of Hacker.  (They don't state whose picture it is,
but I see no reason why they would put someone else's picture next to
personal info about the author.)

The parable referred to in another post is:

You will be visited tonight by an official you have never met.  He begins by
telling you that he is extremely embarrassed.  The organization he represents
has made a mistake, something that hardly ever happens.

According totheir records, he goes on, you were to have been born black:  to
another set of parents, far from where you were raised.

However, thr rules being what they are, this error must be rectified, and as
soon as possible.  So at midnight tonight, you will become black.  And this
will mean not simply a darker skin, but the bodily and facial features
associated with African ancestry.  However, inside you will be the person you
always were.  Your knowledge and ideas will remain intact.  But outwardly you
will not be recognizable to anyone you now know.

Your visitor emphasizes that being born to the wrong parents was in no way
your fault.  Consequently, his organization is prepared to offer you some
reasonable recompense.  Would you, he asks, care to name a sum of money you
might consider appropriate?  He adds that his group is by no means poor.  It
can be quite generous when the circumstances warrant, as they seem to in your
case.  He finishes by saying that their records show you are scheduled to
live another fifty years--as a black man or woman in America.

How much financial recompense would you request?
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 25 Aug 92 10:47:28 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

One of the reasons I don't believe in the existence of a unified
"white majority" is that it goes against my experiences at the
Southern high school I went to.  It my high school the student body
was basically divided into "white mass," "black mass," and a "social
elite" that was mostly (90%) white, but did contain some Asians and a
few blacks.  (I'm simplifying the actual situation, because there were
a lot of groups and sub-groups and the boundaries between the groups
wasn't completely distinct.)

It was a social class structure, and if you a member of the social
elite, you were much better off than if you were a member of the
"white mass" which in turn was generally better off than if you were a
member of the "black mass."

And if you happen to find yourself in the social elite, your race was
quite irrelevant.
From: wung@eecom.gatech.edu (Peter Wung)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian/Asian American Conflicts
Date: 29 Aug 92 21:15:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: ee.1992Aug29.211520.17948
Reply-To: wung@eecom.gatech.edu
Organization: School of EE, Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, GA

In article 78654@ut-emx.uucp, joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:
>|In article <17k9voINN345@network.ucsd.edu> hirota@sluggo.sdsc.edu (Bryan Hirota) writes:
>|>Maybe it's a difference in Chinese/Japanese thinking?
>|>
>|>Most of my Chinese friends seem to think like you.
>|
>|I suspect the difference may be in the attitude of the "old country."
>|Chinese culture encourages overseas Chinese to think of themselves as
>|Chinese and generally accepts overseas Chinese as Chinese and in fact
>|encourages them to think of themselves as Chinese.  
>|
>|I have been told that the Japanese attitude toward overseas Japanese
>|is different, and that native Japanese are less likely to see overseas
>|Japanese as Japanese, especially if they are descended from some
>|non-Japanese.
>|
>|There are several reasons for these differences:
>|
>|1. China has had large numbers of overseas Chinese for over 400 years
>|now.  By contrast, Japan has had overseas Japanese for only about 100
>|years, and there have been comparatively fewer of them.  
>|
>|2. China is much less heterogenous a country than Japan is and places
			^^^^^^^^^^^^

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't you mean homogeneous?

>|less of an emphasis on group conformity.  The result of this is that
>|Chinese seem to be more tolerant of differences among Chinese than
>|Japanese are among Japanese.  
>|
>|3. Closely related to 2), the boundary between Chinese and non-Chinese
>|is a very fuzzy one in the minds of most Chinese.  By contrast, the
>|boundary between Japanese and non-Japanese seems to be rather sharp
>|among Japanese.
>|
>|4. Finally, overseas Chinese have been important politically in the
>|history of China.  The 1911 Revolution was financed almost completely
>|by overseas Chinese.  (In fact, Sun Yat-Sen was in the United States
>|trying to get funding when the revolution broke out.)  
>|
>|
>|
>|
>|
>|



---
****************************************************************************
*Peter Wung				Email:wung@ee.gatech.edu	   * 
*Electric Power Laboratory		Snail mail: 33787 Ga. Tech Station * 
*School of Electrical Engineering		    Atlanta, GA 30332      *
*Georgia Institute of Technology				    	   *        *Atlanta, Georgia							   *
*   	"Pass, Set, CRUSH!"...						   * 
*  	Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad for a short, fat guy.  		   *
*									   *
****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Distribution: soc
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 12:26:29 GMT

In article <78808@ut-emx.uucp> joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:
>In article <1992Aug31.142228.4926@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>>  When are you going to become Asian American?  
>
>How's "never" for an answer?  Got a problem with that? 

  Good.  No problem with that, except the official name of this
  newsgroup is soc.culture.asian.american

  Since you do not consider yourself Asian American, we'll take
  everything you say the same way we take what JJ and other visitors
  say, i.e. knowing that they don't represent the AA viewpoint.
  So we delete you as a datapoint.  Thanks for making it clear.

  Now I can heartily accept everything you say, since you are just
  sharing with us your esteemed Chinese-cu wisdom.  
>
>>  As long as you're Chinese, they'll tell you to go back to China.  
>>  If you don't like it here, go back to China.  
>
>Again, what's your point? 
>

  Point is that since you do not consider yourself American, then
  you have no political power here.  You're a visitor, and we'll
  tolerate you as a visitor.  But you can't go around telling
  Americans to get lost.  Most likely they'd tell you to get lost.

  That's all.  It's like the Ugly American goes to China and
  tells them to get him a hot dog, or something.  Reverse analogy,
  but I think you get the point, I hope.
From: gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu (Just another theatre geek.....)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian/Asian American Conflicts
Date: 1 Sep 92 15:32:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Sep1.153221.12938
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Sep1.072030.10695@mumbo.apple.com> tse@loonybin.apple.com (Gary Tse) writes:
>I couldn't help but think about that kid on my drive back to work though.
>And my initial reaction of disdain and dismissal turned to pity.  You
>see, that young man is emphatically non-Chinese.

	So?

> He is American and
>absolutely nothing else.  Why does he care so about the Asian American
>cause?

	Because he is Asian American.

>There seems to be nothing Asian about him. 

	Being Asian American is not necessarily being "Asian." Ideology would
say that it isn't a case of being Asian or American; it's being a
unique experience. Sociology and anthropology would say the same....

 Is it because when
>others look at him, they see yellow skin and black hair?  It must be a
>difficult and sad life indeed to be defined by what others see in him.

	Guess what?  That happens to EVERYBODY.

	And it seems to me that you're doing the SAME type of stereotyping that
the stereotypical Asian American activist would complain about being done
to Asian Americans....

	[Don't mind me....I got out the wrong side of the bed and am all
grumpy this morning....]

-- 
Roger Tang gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu
Executive Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW;
	The definition of having balls is a non-singer who goes karaoke singing 
with the cast of a musical revue.