HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stave@apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave)
Subject: Re: Nice combos with cat claws (or other combos)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 14:19:21 GMT
Reply-To: stave@apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Oct13.124920.3274@srg.srg.af.mil>, dpipes@spica.srg
(Dave Pipes x4552) writes:
|> Using cat claws on an aware person with friends or a gun - or just
the ability
|> to write down your license number - is not wise.  Using them on some
jerk who
|> couldn't touch your skill level is morally bankrupt.  So the most important
|> ability is telling them apart.  At least then in case a, you won't
get hurt, 
|> and in b, you avoid unnecessarily hurting someone else.  So I think my point
|> stands: rather than practice the cat claw moves as a primary response, learn
|> to detect and analyze situations to determine the proper response.
|> 
|> The paragraph above sort of leads to the conclusion that it is not safe to
|> get into fights with belligerent strangers, unless you can confidently say
|> you'll beat them, in which case you don't need to fight.  I think this is a
|> good starting point - of course, if there is no way out, the same evaluation
|> will get you an idea of how serious the attack will be.  Much more useful
|> than the claws.  Probably more difficult.
|> 

The first paragraph also leads to the conclusion that the answer to the
original poster's question ("I haven't studied any MA but I make up my own
techniques, can this be effective?") is basically "No".

Effectiveness (sp?) is much more than just techniques - especially those
that are developed and practiced alone without any other experience or
feedback.  Studying a MA (under a good instructor) will provide this
experience and feedback without actually putting your life on the line.
It also has the benefit of saving time.  Many people have spent a lot of
time studying and refining various fighting systems, why not build on
their knowledge rather than re-inventing the wheel?


Joel Stave
stave@apollo.hp.com
From: ttk@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (the troglodyte killer)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Usability of shuko and sai (was Re: cat claws / shuko)
Date: 16 Oct 1992 15:02:39 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucscb.ucsc.edu


>But you're probably right, sai, along with lots of other MA weapons, can't be
>carried around.  But what MA weapon really can?  Wouldn't even carrying a stick
>or nunchaku be somewhat difficult?  What IS a good MA weapon to carry around,
>and that is effective?
 
     If you dressed it up to look like a walking stick, a Jo can 
be rather inconspicuous.  Tonfa or folding Kama fit under a 
trenchcoat.  Guissari will fit in a (largish) pocket (or in the 
butt of a Guissari-Kama).
 
                                                      -- TTK
 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552)
Subject: Re: Stop it! (was Re: Nice combos with cat claws (or other combos))
Organization: just me
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 12:54:14 GMT
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts

In article <Bw6305.8q0@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> shulick@yankton.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
>In article <1992Oct15.135525.5041@srg.srg.af.mil> dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552) writes:
>>How about it, anybody know of any training available near the University of
>>Indiana?
>
>Yes, we do have here at IU hapkido, judo, t'ai chi, kendo, tae kwon do, aikido,
>and other stuff.  I'm just hesitant on going for a university class, as opposed
>to a commercial thing.  Are the school's classes very good?

Well, since at most schools the instructors teach because they like the art,
the instruction could actually be better than at many commercial schools, IMO.
I would recommend going to look at the ones you are interested in, and see
if they are really good, in your eyes.  Talk to the students and the instructors.
Try a class or two to get a feel for the art.  Then pick one and stick with it.

Charging money to students is not an accepted way of improving one's 
techniques - don't be suspicious of free or inexpensive teachers.  :-)

Let us know what you do, and if you have any questions about the styles,
just ask here.  It's what we *do*.

	David Pipes
robear@digex.com
From: mh4e@resumix.portal.com (Michael Heiler)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Akido -vs- Akijitsu (meaning of _Aiki_
Date: 9 Oct 92 18:58:28 GMT
Reply-To: mh4e@resumix.portal.com
Organization: Resumix, Inc., Santa Clara, CA

I was not contending anything you stated in the first post.
My comment was just the distinction between Aikijujutsu and
Jujutsu goes back more than a hundred years. These two very
similar names were just applied to the two different arts
last century. Or at least that is my understanding.


- Mike
From: jd@slc3.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Karate style in 'Karate Kid' movie trilogy?
Date: 12 Oct 92 01:39:23 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia


	Can anyone tell me what style of karate Miyagi teaches Larusso in 
the karate kid movies? I happen to watch part of 'Karate Kid III' the other
day on TV and liked some of the techniques used by Pat Morita against the 
bad guys (had a bit of an aiki taste in them), also the kata looked good.
So since I'm ignorant of Karate, I would apreciate any answers, thanks in
advance.								jd.
From: mhirsch@atomic.princeton.edu (Michael Hirsch)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: history of daito-ryu aikijujutsu
Date: 15 Oct 92 16:33:47 GMT
Organization: Princeton University Department of Computer Science
Originator: news@nimaster

>>>>> On 14 Oct 92 20:36:48 GMT, sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi) said:

Steve> In article <1bhjq0INN8vk@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU writes:
>a while ago someone posted a long history od daito ryu aikijujutsu. 
>in a nutshell it said that the daito-ryu was founded by minamoto
>yoshimitsu in 1100 a.d.
>
>i recently came across another 'version' of the daito ryu, in a book
>written by john stevens (and renjiro shirata) called _the way of 
>harmony_.
 
[much deleted]

Steve> Stevens has quite a reputation as a scholar - although it was
Steve> somewhat tarnished by the errors he made in _Abundant_Peace_
Steve> (which managed to simultaneously provoke the Aikikai and the
Steve> Daitokan). One hopes he was more careful with this work. I
Steve> assume it's published by Shamballa, right?

I think he was, if anything, less careful with this work.  _The Way of
Harmony_ was written long before _Abundant Peace_.  It is a book on
Aikido.  The history of Daito Ryu is part of an introductory chapter
on the history of Aikido.  

When I read (well, skimmed thoroughly) _Abundant Peace_ It appeared to
be a slightly expanded version of the chapter from _The Way of
Harmony_.  It was set in much larger type and larger margins making it
appear much longer than before.

_The Way of Harmony_ is pretty much guaranteed to be less accurate
than _Abundant Peace_.

I have heard that Stevens pissed people off with his history, but
never any specifics.  Out of curiosity, why were the  Aikikai people
so angered?
--


Michael D. Hirsch		mhirsch@cs.princeton.edu    
Computer Science Department	Voice: (609) 258-1751       
Princeton NJ, 08544		FAX:   (609) 258-1771
From: brad@SSD.CSD.HARRIS.COM (Brad Appleton)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Karate style in 'Karate Kid' movie trilogy?
Date: 13 Oct 92 16:10:06 GMT
Organization: Harris Computers Systems Division, Fort Lauderdale,FL
NNTP-Posting-Host: hcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com

As has been mentioned, "Miyagi"'s stunt double was Fumio Demura (sp?)
who is a noted Karate master (Shito/Goju Ryu).

The stunt double for "Sato" in the second movie was Grandmaster Jung S.
Park of Park's TKD Federation here in South Florida (Park's TKD
Federation practices the WTF forms).

Does anyone know what style of MA was shown by "Karate's Bad Boy"
and by "Mr. Silver" in the third movie (and please dont tell me it
was "QuickSilver-DO")???


______________________ "And miles to go before I sleep." ______________________
 Brad Appleton           brad@ssd.csd.harris.com       Harris Computer Systems
                            uunet!travis!brad          Fort Lauderdale, FL USA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Disclaimer: I said it, not my company! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Stop it! (was Re: Nice combos with cat claws (or other combos))
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:40:12 GMT
	<1992Oct15.135525.5041@srg.srg.af.mil>
	<Bw6305.8q0@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: shulick@yankton.ucs.indiana.edu's message of 15 Oct 92 14:31:16 GMT


In article <Bw6305.8q0@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> shulick@yankton.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:

   In article <1992Oct15.135525.5041@srg.srg.af.mil> dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552) writes:
   >How about it, anybody know of any training available near the University of
   >Indiana?

   Yes, we do have here at IU hapkido, judo, t'ai chi, kendo, tae kwon do, aikido,
   and other stuff.  I'm just hesitant on going for a university class, as opposed
   to a commercial thing.  Are the school's classes very good?


Sometimes they're VERY good!  The TKD club at MIT is supposed to be
a really good place to train, and I've also heard lots of good things
about the TKD club at OSU.  Do check out the local clubs...I'm 
willing to bet there's a good one in there.

There are a lot of legitimate reasons why an excellent teacher 
wouldn't open a commercial school: lack of money, lack of time, 
other commitments, or perhaps the teacher just wants to limit 
the number of students they teach, which isn't easy to do if 
you open a commercial school.  I study at a commercial school, 
and also with a teacher who shares space with other people and 
only has three students and loses money at it and loves it.  
I'm very happy with both of them.  

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: leiwo@phoenix (Jussi Leiwo)
Subject: Re: Taido/Hakamas (hopping)
Organization: University of Oulu, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 10:43:25 GMT

acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU wrote:
: leiwo@phoenix (Jussi Leiwo) says:
: 
: like volts and that kind of things. Actually this class of teqhnicues (how 
:  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: 
: 	volts, eh? sounds electrifying. so tell me, are these classes paid
: 	in cash, or do you CHARGE them?
: 
: 	heh heh heh.
: 
: 	mukund

Sorry, My english in these topics isn't too good. The movement I was talking
about was: 1. Jump up (you'd better get quite high)
 	   2. When you are up, turn your head down and feet up
	   3. continue turning, position your feet so that you can land safe
	   4. land safe.

So, you'd better start practising in four steps. Good luck. :-)

--Jussi
From: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: So happy (Dragons and such)
Date: 14 Oct 1992 23:46:23 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu


tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus) says:

>hahn@plugh.network.com (Peter Hahn) writes:

>>But there is a White Dragon Kung Fu style around, if you look long enough.
>
>   
>   If "you look long enough", there's probably a Porcelain Dragon style, 
>   too, and maybe a Porcelain God one as well, if you look long enough.  
>   There are nearly as many styles of kung fu as there are Chinese ;-)
>
>   -- Ted --

And if you look even longer, you can begin to see spots.......or
Elvis...whichever hallucination or fungi in the refrigerator
phenomenon comes first. :)


Marty

Do
From: stong@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (Simon Tong)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: *** Advice sought on Wing Chun ***
Keywords: Wing Chun, advice
Date: 13 Oct 92 04:46:56 GMT
Organization: University of Melbourne, Australia

I have gone through the FAQ, but can't find anything on the Chinese
Kung Fu style Wing Chun.  Could someone please give me a brief 
introduction on this style, like its strength, weakness and 
characteristics ?

I am trying to pick a martial art to learn, I intend to learn
some self-defence and improve my fitness, both physical and mental.
Is Wing Chun suitable as a 'first' style ?

I wear contact lenses, my eye sight is rather poor without them.
Is that going to be a problem in practice ?

I appreciate any information, thanks in advance.


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: guay@fraser.sfu.ca (Tim Guay)
Subject: Secrets of Speed Hitting
Summary: Is Jack Williams for real?
Keywords: Speed hitting, hype
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 13:10:35 GMT

I just saw an ad in _Black Belt_ placed by Jack Williams Sports Training
Institute. It advertises a book? on speed hitting. Both the style of the 
ad and the claims made make me hesitate to fork over the cash without
checking this guy out. Have any of you seen or heard of his stuff? If so
is it worth anything?


===============================================================================
  Ta Ta For Now      | Beware of the demon Wizzy Wig, the father of 
        Tim          | typographic lies... 
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus)
Subject: Re: aiki in all ma
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 18:35:35 GMT


osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:

>Many techniques also begin with a strike (e.g. makakshi) to soften up
>the opponent by physically hurting him and disturbing the mind, i.e.

   Comment:  in applying a technique, this is recommended.  When
   training, it interferes in your aiki training by breaking the flow.


>>>-Techniques that go against the joint
>
>Aikido does not do these??  Hmmm...

   Most techniques go until the full normal motion of the joint, and then 
   some (but given that the wrist and shoulder move in all directions, that 
   isn't saying much).  "Gyaku" joint techniques are mostly arm bars, which 
   are done on the "unstrechable" elbow.   


>This is why so many Aikidoka (and some Jujutsuka) are technically
>weak.  The broader the circle, the bigger the doorway to escape and
>the weaker the technique even when uke does not escape.  When you
>have the same technique done to you both ways, the difference is
>immediately apparent and none too subtle.

   That is true, the "smaller" techniques are generally more effective. 
   However, the larger techniques are better for training aiki.  It is very 
   difficult for Nage to train for sensitivity when all (s)he does is quick, 
   short snappy techniques.  Without this sensitivity, countering techniques
   become a matter of who is stronger and faster.  In fact IMO this is what 
   differentiates aiki* from jujutsu --

    -- Ted --

==========================================================
  Ted Camus                          Box 1910 CS Dept 
  tac@cs.brown.edu                   Brown University
  tac@browncs.BITNET                 Providence, RI 02912
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cc@cowan.fishkill.ibm.com (Chris Cowan)
Subject: Re: Movies with 3-sectional-staff?
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 23:01:28 GMT
Reply-To: cc@vnet.ibm.com
Organization: Pough, NY


In article <marcogan-121092135343@150.203.102.25>,
marcogan@student.anu.edu.au (Mark Cogan) writes:
|> In article <1b1ollINN6vt@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, bp652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
|> (Gil W. Lau) wrote:
|> > 
|> > My friend is looking for m-a movies with scenes with a three-sectional-
|> > staff.  He recently bought one of those convert-a-staffs to use as a
|> > bo, but since it was also a three-sectional staff, he wants to try to
|> I actually went so far as to make a 3-section staff from hardwood hoe
|> handles (about 1" diameter), and it is perhaps the scariest object that I
|> own, including my lawnmower. I also have a book with 3-section staff
|> stances, blocks, a form (!) and applications. I'ts called _Technique and
|> form of the Three-Section Staff in Kung Fu_, written by Kam Yuen; I belive
|> the publisher is Ohara. I havent *learned* the form, though; most of the
|> swinging-around-the-body stuff is just too terrifying for me. (my kung fu
|> instructor recommened that I (a) pad the ends of the staff, and (b) wear a
|> helmet)

Kam Yuen appears in the movie "Circle of Iron" with this weapon.
He faces the Monkey King played by David Carradine.   The scene is only a 
minute or so in duration.  He loses, BTW.       

I can also remember several occasions in the TV show Kung Fu, where the 
weapon was used.   I specifically remember Caine using one, to defend 
against some Throwing Stars.  I can also remember seeing the Monks
demonstrating it to students, in the Shaolin Temple Scenes.  (Kam Yuen
was one was one of the Technical advisors for the show!) 

Chris Cowan
From: gene@max.physics.sunysb.edu (Eugene Tyurin)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: ma movies and books
Date: 7 Oct 92 13:43:18 GMT
Organization: Institute for Theoretical Physics

In article <farant.1s9c@terapin.com> farant@terapin.com (Faran Thomason) writes:
>In terms of Martial Arts movies I really don't think your VanDammes, Seagals
>and Speakmans can hold candle to the stars from Hong Kong.
	...
>Once you see a Hong Kong MA flick
>you will realize what a joke most American action/MA films are.

	I wholehartedly agree with you! IMHO american quasi-MA movies tend
to emphasize sounds and views of meat punching, joint-breaking,
teeth-crunching over technique demonstration. Cf. any J-C VD, Seagal movie
(Blood Sport was not as bad comparable to... 8-(   )

 ______________________________________________________________________________
| Eugene N. Tyurin            |                                               |
| Physics Dept., Stony Brook  | I do not need a disclaimer, I need a CLAIMER! |
| gene@max.physics.sunysb.edu |                                               |
|_____________________________|_______________________________________________|
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: quixote@cix.compulink.co.uk (Aurelio Barranco)
Subject: Re: aiki in all ma
Reply-To: quixote@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 17:03:04 +0000


> 
> In the practice I've had in Aikido, which is not at all universal, the attitude
> was sumed up by Westbrook & O. Ratti statement along the lines of "We don't
> try to damage aggressors, even pain to the opponent is avoided if possible."

It always strikes me as being very important to be able to neutralise
an opponent without causing them permanent damage. Anyone can punch
an unskilled, unsuspecting adversary in the throat, it takes much
greater skill to diffuse their attack in an non harmful manner.
This though is only appropriate in some circumstances, such as when
set upon by an obviously drunk person who is unarmed. If though
someone comes at you with a brokken bottle or knife then you have two
options .... run (always the safest if viable) or be a lot rougher on
them. A lot of Aikido techniques I have been shown are blatant joint
breaks. They are not really effective as anything else, and this is
indeed pointed out to me frequently by both Sensei I train under.
There is a difference between wishing not to harm someone, hence
using milder techniques, and not having the option.
I often feel that a lot of Aikido practitioners are very caught up in
the DO aspect of Aikido, the ideal of harmony and universal oneness
and so lose sight of it being a martial art, with techniques designed
to incapacitate, maim or kill.

>
> techniques.  Instead of hyperextending the joint or hitting 'em to soften and
> make them less able to resist the throwing or restraining techneques, it
> seemed to be apply dicomforting pressure to a joint and use superior body
> movement and foot work to take 'em down which, if you know whats coming, is
> more avoidable with a clear (read: not pain overwelmed) head.

We are definitely taught the importance of Atemi to induce pain and
distract.

>
> But, do you know when, exactly, the joint would be damaged or even break.
> I don't think that that is delt with in aikido, least not that much, not
> that there is all kinds of breaking going on in Aikijujutsu, dealing with
> resisting techniques and pain is more emphasised.

I have very clear ideas of when a joint is damaged or broken. As soon
as free movement stops you just carry on going and it'll break ,
tear, or snap. It is often quite surprising haw little is needed to
damage a joint, and in a situation where warranted just mild
exageration of some movements would be sufficient.

Mind you just because we learn how to do this doesn't mean we do :)
I hope I don't come across as a wild blood thirsty aggressor type
because nothing could be further from the truth, I guess I just
realise that the ideal non damaging defense is much much harder to
master.



Aurelio
From: shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Usability of shuko and sai (was Re: cat claws / shuko)
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:39:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.Bw8By1.GrG
Organization: Vallen Software

In article <61206@mimsy.umd.edu> tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:
>     However, let's remember that most MA weapons were simple
>household items that crafty MAists used as weapons. The jo (short
>stick) was a walking cane, sai were either ladies' hairpins or
>seed-hole-punchers for planting, nunchucku were used for threshing
>grain (like the European flail).

True!  And most samurai weapons originated from farming tools, as well.  The
kusari-gama is one example. (if I recall correctly)

-- 
Sam Hulick          | "A baby is an alimentary canal with a loud voice at one
shulick@indiana.edu | end and no responsibility at the other."  --Anon.
(NeXTmail welcome)  |
From: dks@acpub.duke.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: one to ten in korean
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:04:41 GMT
Reply-To: dks@acpub.duke.edu


	There shouldn't have been about five different posts stating that 
the Korean numbers are hana, dool, etc....
	Before you reply to a message, please make sure that you read all of
the other new posts...  Somebody may have already made the correction/comment.
Just yesterday, on another sub I saw a grave error in somebody's post, and I'm
very glad that I continued reading, because the last new message stated
exactly what I was going to.
	It's really boring to read the same thing many times.
	It's really boring to read the same thing many times.
	It's really boring to read the same thing many times...
From: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM (Garth)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Hip Damage, legs too strong...
Date: 16 Oct 1992 00:44:33 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: dojo.west.sun.com

In article 1660@dsinet, heinzl@elroy (Heinz Lottermoser) writes:
>Hello,
>
>My teachers seem to be used to people with little muscular development, not 
>abnormal over-development, and suggest that I do slow form kicks to strengthen
>the muscles and loosen them, but I am not getting any stretch this way, since
>the muscles anchor the leg too low and I can't get a slow side kick up above
>two feet when extended.  Same for a slow forward thrust kick.

Well, doing slow kicks should help you with:

	1) Stengthing the underdeveoped mussles, even if it doesn't work
	   out the over developed ones

	2) Limber you up

I would start with doing kick a little lower than you are able to... and
slowly increasing the hight with each workout session.  Also make sure
you are pivoting correctly on your "plant" leg, this can make the difference
between injury and painless kicks.

	-Garth


			= = = = = = =
  | Garth R. Doverspike		Sun Microsystems, S.E. Seattle |
  | garth.doverspike@west.sun.com			       |

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts