From: stojanov@husc11.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Re: who was in 'power' in BH (was: Re: Call It Anything but Peace)
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:13:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Nov16.111315.17496
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1992Nov15.181003.15796@enea.se> sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:
>Sinisa Mihailovic (miha@proteus1.UUCP) writes:
>>        It  is  clear that he was of Orthodox faith and therefore Serb.
>>Similar goes for the others. As for Boghumils, you should already know
>>that Boghumilism originates from Russia, from the Orhodox religion.
>
>No. Bogomil was a Bulgarian bishop. It is true that the Bogomils
>originated from an Orthodox country, but they reach support in
>the Catholic world as well. As I understand, theology is not my
>speciality, Bogomilism was a very special form of Christianity,
>much more different to Orthodox faith than Catholicism.


Erland, any Catholic of that time would have you burnt on stake for 
this one. 
Bogumil was indeed Bulgarian ( though it might be Greek priest working in 
Bulgaria ).  The sect was imported from Armenia or minor-Asia. Knowledge 
about this sect is exclusively obtained from the writings of their 
opponents, so it is quite dangerous to make conclusions about what they 
really believed in.  What seems to be certain is that they were some
form of Neo-Manichaeism ( spelling? ).  They were believed to be close to 
Cathares ( spelling ), but that two sects appeared independently. 

>
>>Again, all of this has nothing  to  do  with  muslims,  except  that
>>it prooves that muslims have  no  right  to  claim  the Bosnian heritage
>>since they have never lived in the independent and souvereign Bosnia-
>>Herzegovina.
>
>But tell us, what happened to the Bogomils? And where did the
>Muslims come from?
>

Answer is not that simple. Straightforward reasoning, like 
Bogumils were majority in 14th century, Muslims are now, so 
Bogumils = Muslims, is not valid.

To strengthen their claims to the neighbouring territories, where
Serbs traditionally lived, Serbian rulers ( Rascia, Raska, known 
as Serbia proper among some historians ) attempted to combine 
religious and state authority in their figure in the way similar to 
that of East Roman Emperors.  As a reaction, independent rulers of 
Bosnian branch of Serbs, went to the only possible alternative, 
while avoiding bringing people to the Catholic church and falling under
Hungarian rule.  Interestingly, in order to be able to claim all 
Serbian land, some Bosnian rulers had to openly claim that they are
Orthodox ( Tvrtko the Great ).  Furthermore, some of them, to gain 
advantage in internal struggles asked Catholics to help them, claiming 
that they are Catholics.  
Serbian nobility ( from Serbia proper ) was routed out by Turks at
the end of 14th and the beginning of the 15th century.  Similar thing
happened with Hercegovinian nobility.  To avoid this ending, certain
part of the Bosnian nobility accepted Islam quickly.  This might be
because they beleived in Bogumil's teaching. Parts of the peasants 
under them, joined,  while parts of them, disappointed by the lack 
of the resistance of their nobility flocked around  Orthodox priests. 
Parts of this Orthodox population converted later  to Islam.   
Many Muslims still know their old family names and their Orthodox ancestors. 
At the end of the Ottoman rule there was slightly less then 50% of the
Orthodox population in the Bosnia and Hercegovina, i.e. relative majority. 

Bogumils vanished when there was no political reason for Bosnian nobility to 
stick to that sect.  They wouldn't be able to keep their land, unless
they were Muslims, and it is, as everywhere unclear what people beleived 
in, independently form their masters. Muslim nobility from, let us 
say 19th century, was partly derived form Bosnian nobility, and partly from 
imported Turks ( Cengici, Zuflikarpasici are from Turkmenia, this one is 
for Senad ). 

>-- 
>Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se

Regards,

Milan

P.S. While reading the text again, I have seen a slightly unclear part.
Hercegovina held longer then Bosnia against Turks.  So I might 
change the order of some sentences, but then, I would have to 
give more explanations, and I have no time for that. 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna:597 soc.culture.yugoslavia:9688