From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Date: 11 Jan 93 22:56:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan11.225625.17635
Organization: insert anything here

jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis) writes:
>henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:
>>jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis) wrote: 
>>->rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>>->>It is the observation of queerdom's most sacred holiday, the anniversary
>>->>of the Stonewall riots.
>>->>EVERY CITY IN THE WORLD should observe it on the last Sunday of June.

>>->I don't see any smilies, but I hope to Gawd you mean this sarcastically.
>>why would you say something so silly?  

>Probably because I don't agree with it.

>"Queerdom's most sacred holiday?"  Who is included in this "queerdom"?
>Who isn't?  As I think of Stonewall as a significant historical fact and
>not as some sort of sacred holy day, I assume I'm not to be included
>in "Queerdom".

>The anniversary of Stonewall has very little importance in my life.  It
>is, to me, an American event, something that happened in a foreign country.

	Right - as if the US never influenced events in Canada, or
Toronto...

>Yes, the social effects and implications have crossed borders, but an
>event much more relevent to me is the repeal of the anti-sodomy laws in
>Canada.  Should I now announce that the whole world should celebrate
>this event on a single day?  Of course not:  the event has no importance
>to much of the world's population.

	Nor is it queerly-oriented.  Contrary to popular belief,
sodomy can be practied by any two adults.  While sodomy laws are
in fact used against non-hets, it is by no means the only tool
used to oppress us.

	Stonewall doesn't mark a significant bestowal of "rights"
on us from the str8 community (which should have been there all along),
Stonewall represents the genesis *of* the community, and of people
coming to the realization that they *should* be proud.  It doesn't matter
if that event happened in Java or Greenwich Village (would you as a
Muslim, bemoan everything about your culture because it occur in
a foreign  country?).  Certainly there were pockets of the GBLO*
community before Stonewall and outside of the US, what makes our community
different than others in this regard is that we didn't "start" somewhere
and migrate to all corners of the Earth, we've always encompassed the globe.
Chooising which  day out of the 365.2412 per year isn't so much the
problem - it's in understanding why we do so.

>As it happens, Toronto celebrates its Pride Week in the days leading up
>to the march on the 4th Sunday of June.  It works for us:  the weather
>is typically good and it's a good warm-up to the Canada Day week-end.

	Ah - so GBLO* Pride is an appetizer for another party...

>I'd be just as content to have it in July or August.  If you were to come
>to Canada and suggest that we permanently fix the date of our march to
>co-incide with American marches celebrating an event in the U.S. which
>had a profound effect on American gay culture, what do you think would
>be my response?

	Well, if there were a similar event in Canada to commemorate,
you could suggest that we follow your lead.  As there isn't, in
the sense of it being truly GBLO*-oriented (as opposed to of GBLO*-interest,
like your sodolmy law repeal), or GBLO*-instituted (as opposed to any
day commemorating str8s "getting with the program" which is more of
a str8 pride day than a GBLO*-pride day) and occurring before 1969...

	Pride isn't a USocentric thing - that's why Roger put it
in global proportions.

>while Stonewall might have importance to you and me, it is quite
>meaningless in many other areas of the planet; attempts to explain to these
>areas why they should time their Pride Days to co-incide with an event
>in our culture should be met with derisive laughter.

	No, comments like this should be met with derisive laughter.
The idea of people *any* people somewhere *anywhere* standing up
for themselves in the climate that existed when Stonewall occurred
is very bold and brave.  Watering it down to "well, we have this party
every year" doesn't quite measure up.  I'll bet that if Stonewall
had happened in Europe or anywhere but the U.S. - you wouldn't have
a complaint.  

	Certainly other places have had outspoken protests against
orientational oppression.  I challenge you to find one before 1969.

>As I said in a previous article, declaring that Pride Day has the sole
>function of commemorating Stonewall also ignores the obvious, that we
>as a community have grown considerably since that time.  Stonewall should
>be noted and remembered as part of the process that got the ball rolling,
>but not by excluding and ignoring the victories since then.  Call me naive
>(no doubt you already have) but I've always taken the name Pride Day at
>face value:  it's about gay pride, which is more than just Stonewall.  

	If we don't know where we've been we cannot know where we
are going.  

>I'm all for having a global day of celebration and display of unity,
>but you'd better offer something to rally around.  Gay pride would do it
>for me.  Stonewall by itself would not.

	Where and when did "gay pride" become an 
objectively identifiable concept?  At what point did "we"
become a community capable of group pride?  To celebrate it,
we need to identify it and its roots.  Well, let me rephrase
that, to celebrate it, unshallowly, we need to identify it and
its roots.  Not the exact root - I'm sure there isn't one.
But any root.  Stonewall is documented, it certainly had an
incredible effect.  The dates for these celebrations or theones
that the other late-comers emulate were chosen to recognize Stonewall,
and not Canada Day as some might suspect...


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