From: a_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: The illogic of draining levels
Date: 23 Aug 92 17:16:31 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <1992Aug21.132730.1127@bnr.ca>, dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton) writes:
> In article <1992Aug20.165458.430@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>, engf002@csc.canterbury.ac.nz writes:
> |>
> |> Does this not rather tone down the undead encounters?
> |> 
> |>     A wraith approaches the party.
> |>     Before : "Aaaargh! A wraith! Run for your very lives!"
> |>     Now : "Ho hum. A wraith. What's it going to be? A week of resting?"
> |> 
> |> Thus taking away the very essence of undead : T E R R O R
> |> 
> |> This is player terror as well as character terror.
> |> 
> |> But you could also apply this argument to any spectacular character 
> |> death - a seventh level character is fireballed and dies = 3 years 
> |> of playing gone. C'est la vie.
> |> 
> |> IMHO, I think TSR did very well. There is NOTHING that strikes 
> |> fear into a player's heart more than level-draining undead.
> |> And that is the purpose of them, nes pa?
> 
	You don't have to destroy characters to strike fear into the players. I
have always been good at instilling fear and paranoia amongst the players with
just my normal GMing style. I don't need a bad rule to use. The fireballed
character is a bad analogy. If he survives the fireball, he'll still be 7th
level. If he survives a fight with level draining undead, he will definately
not be 7th level. If you want the 'your dammned either way', you should play
Ravenloft or Call of Cthulu (sp?) -- level draining abilities are, IMNSHO,
contrary to the ideals of the heroic fantasy genre. I think T$R screwed up.

> I agree with Andrew 100%.  I say : "You see a Dragon/Drow/Other Monster" and for
> the most part my players say "Ok, ready for attack/talk/blah blah blah".  The one
> time I said : "You see a Vampire", they said "Holly SHIT, run, run, run, fireball,
> run, teleport, etc.".  It really added some fun to the game.  Besides, levels can
> be restored by High Level Clerics, and it helps in my world (Forgotten Realms) 
> that there happens to be a lot of very high level clerics around (of course, 
> sometimes this is bad too).

	Okay, what if you don't *have* a campaign littered with high level
clerics (or, rather, don't want one), so that every time (or every other time)
they lose a level from draining they can get it back? There are perhaps a half
dozen clerics in *my* Forgotten Realms campaign that can use the spell. My
players get nervous whenever they have to deal with a dragon, or drow, or just
about any other creature on the same power level as their characters. Screwing
over players doesn't add 'some fun to the game' for me or my players, and 
draining levels is screwing them over. Hell, I've made the PCs (5-7th level) 
afraid of *orcs* at times (and these were normal 1 HD critters, and not in 
very large numbers too)! Also, that method I use in place of level draining --
PCs *are* very reluctant to deal with undead still, and players with high stats
that rely on them (theif with an 18 dex) are absolutly terrified (small number,
but important).

Brandon Cope
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd