From: barry@citr.uq.oz.au (Barry Kitson)
Subject: Re: Multiple attackers
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 23:21:29 GMT

tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus) writes:

>  I agree with David Poore, you should deal with the strongest one
>  first.  You might as well get it over with, while you're fresh.  

	You assume that you will have to fight all attackers (and
maybe that you will win :^) .  Why not run?  In order to get away,
run at the weakest point, and if you are surrounded, that would
probably be the weakest person.  If you run, and string them out
behind you, then even if they are faster you will be more likely
to be able to take them one (or a few) at a time.  Besides, things
might improve after a little warming up :^) .

>  Given people of equal size, it's pretty hard to hurt someone with a 
>  shomen strike to the forehead (unless the attacker really tries to hurt
>  the neck).  It allows the attacker to give a committed, fast strike 

	(to an unlikely target :^)

>  with minimum risk of injury.  The equivalent force/speed punch to the 
>  face would definitely cause injury. 
..
>  So in karate etc., realistic strikes with unrealistic force, vs.
>  aikido etc. unrealistic strikes with realistic force.  

	Huh?  Why unrealistic force?  Usually we just change the range
over which the strike is strong to a couple of inches short of the
target.  (At least that's the plan :^)

>  In the former
>  case, there is the risk that the strikes get soft or weak ("point-sparring
>  syndrome"), which does not have to happen by any means, but often does.

	So, train hard to avoid becoming soft.

>  In the latter case, it is up to the aikidoka to "interpolate" between 
>  the strikes they have trained in order to properly respond to a punch.
>  But by BB level, they are pretty used to having things flying at their
>  head, and should be unfazed by it.  

	True IMHO.  Once you reach some level, things probably even
out.  But there seem to be a few things you don't understand about 
striking arts (See below :^).....

>barry@citr.uq.oz.au (Barry Kitson) writes :

>>> (I do not consider most forms of two-on-one sparring to count, 
>>> for the reasons given above.)
>>
>>	I've looked for the "reasons given above" but am still not sure
>>what you mean.  If the "two" attack in concert, then what's your 
>>objection?

>  Usually that grappling is not involved or attempted.  If they only try
>  to punch or kick you, then you are free to run away, or fight them on
>  your own terms.  If they try to tackle you, the situation changes.

	Same problem as Aikido isn't it?  And the way to avoid the 
problem is to make sure the attackers know how to attack, so the 
defender can learn how to defend.  If the attackers leave you space
to run away then they are not doing their job, and sprint-jutsu is
about as well known to TKDers as Aikidoka isn't it?

>> I imagine things are pretty much the same in Aikido, or are you capable 
>> of breaking the arms of two people at once? :^)

> Well, no, but sometimes we can break one person's arm, while throwing
> them into someone else.  Shihonage & kotegaeshi are but 2 examples.
> The proverbial "smash 2 uke's with 1 waza" :)

	Well how is this different from moving around one attacker
(while laying into him/her with nice punches, strikes and a bit of
grappling) to keep the others at bay?  We don't try to attack two
at once either, and we try to manoeuvre the one we are busy with into
a useful position too.  So we try to knock one person out while pushing
him/her into someone else.  See?  Not so different heh?  :^)

	Hmmmm...

		Barry.


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