From: ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Religious Ed. is an answer not a Dracula
Date: 1 Sep 92 20:23:24 GMT
Organization: University of Strathclyde


In article <1992Aug31.021926.3921@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU> ghassoun@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (George Hassoun) writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.132803.8679@ccsun.strath.ac.uk>
>ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz") writes:
>
>
>>Mr. Hassoun, I am one of those people who feel uneasy about discussing religions
>>on the net.
>
>Mr. Ballouz,
>I think you are raising a very important issue here: *uneasiness of
>talking publically about one's religion*. However, let me first
>emphasise that what is in stake is not *any* religious talk, but *the
>religion issue in the context of the Lebanese conflict*.
>
>[...]
>>I believe however that not many of us know much about religions and any discussion
>>would inevitably lead to exchanging some "street talks" (as you had put it).
>>Here, the truth would be the first casuality in such discussions.
>>We will be engaging in spreading fictions and distorted facts no matter how
>>hard one tries to sweeten the wording.
>
>The "many of us who don't know much about religions" would purposely be
>the targets and authors of such religio-cultural talk. Each one of us
>has an average *perception*, i believe, of what his/her religion
>represents to him/her. Those at the origin of many of our problems in
>Lebanon carry a similar type of perception, and not a perfect knowledge of
>religious matters. The net with what it provides of public exposure would be
>a good place to filter the fictions and distorted facts. Communicating
>our ideas under the light of the premise stated previously will
>inevitably lead to the improvement of our attitudes.
>
>Needless to say we are not seeking perfection, but one objective of
>the talk would be to understand a little bit more the nature of the
>relationship between the two religions, seen by an average person, not
>a clergyman. It is important to know more whether these two religions
>are *socially* compatible in any way, or whether any attempt to
>"match" them would necessarily lead to an "unstable equilibrium" (the
>sort of equilibrium we had, in Lebanon, over the last few decades).

Mr. Hassoun,
I share with you the desire to improve our understanding of each other
religions in order to create a stronger base of cooperation between all
the Lebanese people. I wrote before that I would welcome any form of
communication leading to such aim but I am still very pessimistic about
what can we achieve by discussing the issue on the net.
Of course I'd like to know more about our differences and of course I'd
love to see a Lebanon that is based on clearer relations between its people.
I lived in west Beirut in Mohammad El-Hout street and I have seen what
are the consequences of mistrust and lack of understanding between us.
I have seen that probably clearer than anybody else on the net.

I am not sure however that we will be able to achieve what we want by
discussing such an important issue on the net.

You believe that exposing our views will enhance our chances in dealing
with our distorted views. I believe that taking the current state of
mistrust among us into account, exposing these views would definetely
lead to more bitterness and to deeper feeling of hoplessness.
I will take the article of M.G. as an example.
M.G. called on the muslims to take control of their "own" countries
and manage their own matters by themselves.
 Many have replied bitterly to that offensive article.  
When it comes to discuss the issue of "religion in the context of the
lebanese conflict", you have to be prepared to hear such opinions.
Many of the educated muslim fellows believe in what M.G. wrote and they
will be putting forward their views (Hezbollah is a large party with 
a stated aim of creating a muslim state in Lebanon). 
Are you prepared to see the kind of these views and the kind of replies
similar to the ones that had followed M.G.'s article?  
I do not like to see that happening again.
Can you honestly say that those articles I am talking about can improve
my perception? I tell you NOT AT ALL. It only strengthens my feeling of
helplessness about our future.
Can you say that you are able to convince the people who wrote these
articles to change their minds? Do you think they do not know what they
are doing?  Do those people like to change their attitudes in the first
place?
I frankly doubt that.
I am sorry to say that while I appreciate your effort, I don't share
your optimism and I hope I am WRONG.

>>Secondly, I believe that while many people, in good faith and with the best of
>>intention, get drawn into exchanging distorted stories, some people would
>>seize the opportunity to purposely flood the net with some sarcastic and
>>mocking remarks that would upset a lot of us. You only have to go back a
>>little and revise some of the articles  to find out the truth in what I'm
>>saying.
>
>I am aware of that. But i think that better for us and them to flood
>the net with distorted remarks (that get corrected as appropriately as
>possible), than to wait until those people return back to Lebanon and
>flood the system with distorted ideologies. The sooner we act the
>better.
>
>>Thirdly, we all know that many non-lebanese participate in the discussions.
>>I feel that not many of them are aware of our particular sensitivity to these
>>topics. Can you guarantee that those fellow netters would give the required
>>care when dealing with these subjects?
>
>As a matter of fact, i noticed that non-Lebanese are, in average, far
>more sensitive than the Lebanese themselves when addressing
>religiously related issues connected to the Lebanese conflict. You
>only have to look at the current (and past) postings of "foreign"
>individuals.
>
>>Last, I'm not really sure whether discussing this topic on the net. is the
>>best available way to increase our knowledge about our religions. Here, I
>>can think of three islamic centres and dozens of christian centres in which
>>the peolpe are more than willing to discuss these matters, face to face, and
>>to the length and to the degree of details required. I am sure similar centres
>>exist everywhere.
>
>At one stage i was a member of a similar centre myself. My experience
>tells me that the possibility of a Muslim person coming to discuss
>religious matters in a Christian centre is quite minimal. The same is
>most certainly true for the opposite case. Also, i don't expect
>religious centres to willingly open an interactive, fairly diverse and
>physically safe Islamo-Christian debate in the context of the Lebanese
>conflict. At any rate, we just can't rely on the religious centres
>around the world to resolve our problems.

Here in Glasgow there were some programs which were dealing with explaining
Islam to non muslims (I do not know whether these programs are still running
or not). These programs used to attract some people. 
 You see here if the person is intrested enough, there will be somebody to 
provide answers.
I was told these programs are available in different places.
Similarly, I personnally met some Christian individuals who wanted to explain
to me their religion. They volunteered to do this job.
In all those meetings above, the relations between muslims and non-muslims
were discussed. 

It is true these discussions will not solve our problems but issues like the
relations between moslems & christians living in the same country can be
discussed. 
Issues such as sharing power, accepting a head of government to be from another
religious group, the issue of religious education in state schools, the
appointment of heads of sects by the government can all be tackeled.
These issues are at the heart of our mal-functionning system.

Such discussions can take place, face to face, an answer can be immediately 
given to a certain question. The mood and the atmosphere would be suitable.

I can not see how we can keep good continuation on the net when I send an 
article and you send a reply after a week! I know we are busy but I'm sure
you can see the difficulties here especially where you have several issues are
being discussed together.
>
>>I believe the australian society is different than ours as far as religion is
>>concerned. There, Christians do not feel threatened as our fellow christians
>>feel in Lebanon. Moslems there are not in the same situation as our moslems
>>in Lebanon. I am not surprised if they discuss religions in a more open fashion.
>>I feel we can not. Our situation is totally different.
>
>Of course our situation is different. Not totally though. There is
>currently a debate going on between the Muslim community in Australia
>and the government attempting to integrate Muslim traditions within
>the nationally adopted system. The difficulties are evident. these
>difficulties are basically the same existing anywhere between a
>religiously centered community and a non-religiously based system (or
>any other system leaning towards unbiasness). It is not the situation
>that's very different, my friend, it is our attitudes. Thanks, by the
                                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>way for identifying one of our attitude problems.
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Obviously, you don't seem to share "our" attitude. You had managed to
(most probably) avoide the circumstances which had left its marks on us.
My attitude Mr. Hassoun is one of caring for our wrecked nerves. I'm
trying to spare this group another row because I believe a discussion would
be futile and no good would come out of it.
I WISH YOU CAN HAVE A LOOK AT YOUR ATTITUDE AND RESTRAIN YOURSELF AND AVOIDE 
PASSING REMARKS.
You know, I can easily respond and spoil your mood. Don't put me in that 
sitaution because I don't like to get entangled in trading rude messages.

>>At the end, I would like to say that many participants in this group are
>>responsible people and are aware of the sensitivity of the subject. However,

>>it only takes one offensive article to cause a storm and spoil a serious and
>>informative discussion. Do you remember M.G. from Cardiff and what had his
>>offensive article lead to? I am not sure that many would like to see that
>>again.
>
>A network storm is nothing but the surface of the hurricane boiling in
>the inner depth of those who cause it. Let these people explode on the
>net. I would prefer a hundred times more a net explosion that i could
>do something about, than seeing my children suffering from another
>social explosion in my country 30 years down the line, and not being
>able to do anything about it.
>


My own feeling is that with more exchanges like the one we seen between
M.G. and some others, I doubt that we will have to wait 30 years to have 
another go at each other.

>Street talkers and street activists have dominated for so long in our
>country. They could afford to do so because the law, there, is theirs.
>Are we going to allow them to dominate our thinking even when we have
>the opportunity to express our ideas far from their intimidation
>practices? And are we going to step aside simply saying: "We feel
>uneasy talking about it"?

And again I have to tell you here that I am not looking to hide matters under
the carpet neither I am trying to silence you.
I am simply putting forward my opinion about discussing the issue on the net
and about the appropriateness of this platform for such discussions.

>We're supposed to be the educated ones!
>
Education is very useful but we can do with some common sense too. We would like
to discuss and communicate but we have to make sure that nobody will get upset
because of our exchanges.

If you feel that it is possible to conduct the discussion without irritations
to fellow netters we are all behind you.
I wish you good luck and if I feel I can make a positive contribution, I will
participate.

>>I. Ballouz.
>
>All the best,
>George Hassoun


Regards,

I. Ballouz.

-- 
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* IBRAHIM BALLOUZ            **           DEPARTMENT OF ARCHITECTURE          *
* ccav38@uk.ac.strath.ccsun  **  STRATHCLYDE UNIVERSITY GLASGOW SCOTLAND U.K. *
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