HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Degrees of racism (was Re: Caucasians don't understand)
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:34:17 GMT
Reply-To: hira@cme.nist.gov
Distribution: na
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology

In article <23594@alice.att.com>, jj@alice.att.com (jj, clueless old
white boy) writes:
|>From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, clueless old white boy)
|>
|>And this is my point about separatism.  If you choose to be separatist,
|>and adopt a jingoistic "whites are evil" cant like Dodwy (like it or
|>not, that's what he's saying he's decided), you will alienate these people
|>and get neither their help nor the value of their experiences.
|>
|>In addition, you will have a very hard time convincing them that you
|>aren't what they hate, i.e. racists.  The answer that Sze and Jackson
|>provide is "we don't care, it doesn't matter".  I suggest that
|>history, eastern, western, and african, suggests that "we don't care"
|>is the fastest way to a war outside of religion.

I think that few people in this newsgroup would say blanketly that all
"whites are evil." I'm sure that there are some out there, but my guess
is that they're in the minority. However, you seem to belittle the amount
of racism that *does* exist; e.g., that its like 1 in 1 million. Obviously
you've had a hard time of it, but you should then be a little more sensitive
to what others have to say. Sure you can disagree with them, but open 
your mind a little and allow for other points of view. I've got a 
few white friends with similar views as yourself, but we can agree to 
disagree at times. The point of discourse should be for education not 
flaming IMO. Easier said than done.

Ron
From: yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Dwight Joe (Re: An open letter to Emperor Akihito of Japan)
Date: 23 Aug 92 18:45:00 GMT
Organization: New York University

eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:

|>and miss the chance to learn more. If we cannot convince him, how can
|>we convince the other Japanese.
|>	Is he Japanese?
|>He has given me insights into why the Emperor is not allowed to apologise to
|>China for the Nanking massacre.

He is CHINESE! You even can not see that? He is a shame to the Chinese!

|>On the contrary. He sounds intelligent to me. If you think he is stupid,
|>how about all the other Japanese. Most Japanese are quiet people and very
|>sensitive. They would rather do rather tahn argue.

You seem to be as intelligent as him. Your argument is ILLOGIC.

|>	In fact the danger with Japan is that they are too smart.

I don't agree with you.

Ze Yang
From: kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: REPOST: PRE-MARITAL SEX IN CHINESE SOCITIES
Date: 29 Aug 1992 18:28:43 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, Rice University

In article <64597@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:
>I think that a lot of cultures are suffering from too much sex, premarital,
>extramarital, hetero, and homo.

So what sex do *you* engage in that's "better than suffering"?  Auto?  :-)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: What is tacky today
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 17:13:03 GMT

In article <LAUNCE.92Aug24124716@apollo.med.utah.edu> launce@apollo.med.utah.edu (Tri-Ungulate) writes:

>question to the net re: texas: does anybody know about what the
>followup is on the friction between the refugee viet. communities &
>the white texans in places like alamo bay (i think that's the name of
>the place the movie was made about)?? 

I have a close friend whose sister moved to Houston before the incident. They
reported no problems (but then, they weren't fishermen). After the incident, 
this sister talked two of the other children in the family into moving there.
They say they really like it (note: they are Vietnamese-Chinese). That may
change after the hurricane, however.

Mike
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
From: lwang@mariner.amc.edu.au (Lou  Wang)
Subject: Re: The Chinese Community
Organization: Australian Maritime College
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 05:35:21 GMT


Subject: Re: The Chinese Community
Organization: Australian Maritime College

test lw
From: trang@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Trang Nguyen)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 00:15:43 GMT
Subject: Re: Economics and Discrimination
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american

Just Testing !
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: Degrees of racism (was Re: Caucasians don't understand)
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 12:22:26 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.001915.28684@news.acns.nwu.edu> dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson) writes:
>In article <23604@alice.att.com> jj@alice.UUCP (jj,  curmudgeon and clueless old white boy) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep1.013949.3885@news.acns.nwu.edu> dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson) writes:
>>>Whites are evil ??? I've never said that.... To borrow a phrase commonly
>>No, you've implied it.  You've said that there is never, ever,
>>any point in trying to cultivate whites, that it will always
>>and forever turn out to cause you more trouble.  That's implying
>>outright that whites are both evil and sub-human.  That's

  JJ, for a scientist with such a brilliant mind, your lack of reading
  comprehension amazes me.  First of all, I never saw Dowdy or
  anyone else in this newsgroup say that whites are evil and sub-human.
  Even IF the first sentence of "not trying to cultivate whites"
  is correct, it does not follow logically that "whites are evil".
  "Not trying to cultivate" means not going out of your way to
  flatter and cajole a white person into liking you.  It doesn't
  mean not having white friends, it just means not begging them
  to be your friends.  And it certainly doesn't follow that
  it "implies outright that whites are both evil and sub-human."
>
>I am just stating FACTS !!! If the facts make you think that I am saying
>whites are evil then that's your problem. I will never say that because
>I don't beleive that.

  Maybe deep inside he believes that.  Ever heard of projection?
>
>>>You got that right. The problem is that we aren't going to take abuse by
>>>whites just so that we can be accepted by you...PERIOD.
>>
>>Pardon me?  How's asked you to take abuse?  

  Again, reading comprehension.  Dowdy states that he isn't going to take
  abuse by whites just to be accepted by them.  The 'you' refers to
  the whites who won't accept him.  The 'you' does not refer to almighty JJ.

>>I've asked you not to abuse
>>me.  That's different.  Every time you say "whites this, whites
>>that", you abuse me. 

  Great.  So now we have to say, "whites except for JJ this, whites
  except for JJ that."  

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Asian/Asian American Conflicts
Keywords: Michael Jordan,  Leprosy
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 05:26:47 GMT

In article <17k9voINN345@network.ucsd.edu> hirota@sluggo.sdsc.edu
(Bryan Hirota) writes:
>I can see what you're saying Joe [Wang], but I think you and
>I are pretty different, probably due to background.
>Coming from a Japanese American family,  being an
>"american" has always been the norm.  We are obviously
>"not Japanese".
>I suspect that had my family not been interned during
>World War II, I probably would feel more interest in
>Japan, but maybe not.  My father's side of the family
>was not interned (he's from Hawaii).  They're not
>very Japanese either.
>Maybe it's a difference in Chinese/Japanese thinking?

Yes.  Most definitely.

>
>Most of my Chinese friends seem to think like you.

Not quite.  Most of your _Chinese-cu_ friends think that way.
It's regretable thinking, but they _are_ Chinese-cu, after all.

Chuugokujin no kangaekata ga dame da.

>
>Bryan Hirota	-	hirota@sdsc.edu	-	bhirota@ucsd.edu

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                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj,  curmudgeon and clueless old white boy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Degrees of racism (was Re: Whites don't understand)
Date: 1 Sep 92 15:15:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23603
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj,  curmudgeon and clueless old white boy)
Distribution: na
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <1992Aug31.184939.9289@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:

>  You seem to equate pride and self-respect with separatism.
>  Like Mr. Jackson said, If Whites are proud of what they are,
>  why can't we be proud of ourselves too.  Why not?

Of course, I do no such thing.  You'd like to be able to think
that in order to provide yourself with another excuse to discount
an embarrassing mountain in the middle of your own separatist
arguments, and to justify your own discounting and outright
dehumanizing of those you think SHOULD be your own color
when then don't agree with you.

I haven't told you to NOT be proud of what you are, I've
said that making the world into "us vs. them" doesn't work.
I'll repeat what I said a few minutes ago, until you understand
what your "opponent" is saying, you might want to hold off
an answer.  I think your assumptions above say more about your
own prejudices and expectations than they do about anything
else.

You can be proud of yourself, WITHOUT demanding that Joe W
stop being a race traitor.  What's good for YOU isn't necessarily
good for him, and you're arguing otherwise, based only on
race. In otherwords, you're arguing in a racist fashion.
-- 
 Bush    *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   vs       *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
 Clinton  --    *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 Just Say !NO!       *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ikeda@vxcrna.cern.ch (IKEDA,M./EP)
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Summary: "Who is Us", "Who is "Them"
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Distribution: soc
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 09:14:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.142037.24448@panix.com>, sieh@panix.com (Twinkie Chinkie) writes...
>...[lots of stuff deleted for brevity]
>different.  I noted your reply to my article about the Judy Tseng tirade
>against me.  I had asked the question, who spoke up after her article?  It
>wasn't that I needed it, but I was bitterly disappointed how easy it is
>for people of the same color/ethnicity to look the other way--in this case,
>another Asian American bashing another because one thought that the other
>wasn't "Asian" enough and too "American" (ie. White).  It's so easy to
>bash and flame against people who don't look like you...that's how racism
>feeds itself, a vicious cycle.  That's how a lot of evil get's perpetuated
>in this world, in societies all over.  People group together because they
>look the same or share similar ethnic backgrounds and then proceed to act
>in solidarity to pick on yet another group who looks different from them
>and have different ethnic/cultural backgrounds.  And even more evil is 
>that like people also turn against themselves.  If some non-Asian American
>said what Judy said, you and Jim and a bunch of other people would be jumping
>all over him.  But, because she was Asian American, the only people who
>said what she said was wrong where non-Asian Americans.  Can you see the
>irony of that?

I don't think that only non-Asian Americans were against what Judy said.
In fact, I myself believe that Judy and Hoyt Sze's philosophy is absolutely
nutty.  IMHO, of course.  Why was I silent?  Because there were already
some competent posts that flamed them already.  And I bet there are a lot
more like me.  Also please note that there were a lot Asian American posters
who disagreed with this nutty philosophy previous to the infamous 'Oriental
sycophant' post.  You are not alone.

-- Makoto
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 26 Aug 92 08:37:26 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <SHAW.92Aug25023045@whopper.lcs.mit.edu> shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:
>As members of a group, we also can obtain the powers of the group.

If joining groups is merely a matter of political power, my question
is why should I join "OUR" group instead of "THEIR" group, since
"THEIR" group is so much more political powerful.  The answers to this:

1. "THEY" won't let "US".  I don't know about your experiences, but I've
never had too much problem being accepted into the establishment even
though I probably speak Chinese about as often as I do English.

2. "THEY" don't represent "OUR" interests.  Again, I don't see my
interests being more closely aligned to AA activists then to the
establishment.  

3. "THEY" don't look like "US".  So what?  

>Closing my eyes to
>race in the vain hope that everyone else will do the same is plain
>stupidity.

If I don't close my eyes to race, why should I expect others to do so?
And if people don't close their eyes to race, I lose.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: thao@cse.uta.edu (Laly Thao)
Subject: Re: Why does JJ read scaa?
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, Univ. of Texas at Arlington
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 01:52:14 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.181746.21077@ttinews.tti.com> andrew@ice.TTI.COM (too cold) writes:

[concerns about jj's presence in scaa deleted]

hmmmm...not to answer jj's question for him but i'm answering
this question for myself  :-)  sort of a self-affirmation thing.

my top 5 reasons why jj may be reading and posting to scaa:

	5)  jj has to keep the world free of jim pak's posts ;-)
	4)  jj has to justify the use of "jj" to andy shaw
	    and others.  
	3)  jj wants to organize scaa in order to petition
	    7 seas to return production of buttermilk dressing
	    (oh, sorry, that's my reason.  8-)   )
	2)  jj has to defend "whites" when "whites" are 
	    indiscriminantly lumped together as the "evil white
	    men" oppressing minorities.
	1)  jj actually finds the postings in here interesting
	    and hence is drawn to the aura of scaa.

-- 
thao@cse.uta.edu        |     "There are no balls!!" 
b645zay@utarlg.uta.edu	|               -Goku from Dragon Ball 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.korean,soc.culture.asean
From: Ung-Ho Yi <ungyi@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: letter from reader
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:02:48 GMT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]


hello everyone,

i finally got some time to look through the articles, and
of course the variety of articles were interesting.  

the article which touch me the most was the beating death of the vietnamese
american.  the first thing that came to my mind was sadness then the
helplessness.  

i guess this wouldn't be the last one.  i hope we asian americans can
sthick together in times of trouble for some of us, because we have to help
our selves.

luckly, i don't know why, it's easiar for us to become friends.  right?




i would like to thank those netters who posted magazine articles and
news about asian americans.



see you people later,

yi
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, clueless old white boy from the mills)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:03:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23565
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, clueless old white boy from the mills)
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <1992Aug26.204612.29669@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
> Ha, ha, try and pin that one on me.  Go to Wilmington/Carson
Hey?  I asked, yes?  I didn't TELL you, did I?

No matter what, let me put it this way, you sound just like some
of the nice white boys I dealt with in high school.

I guess we don't need to discuss this any more, you don't belive a word
of what I'm saying, and I'm tired of being called a damn liar.
-- 
 Bush    *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   vs       *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
 Clinton  --    *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 Just Say !NO!       *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
From: timlee@public.btr.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Some Group Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 27 Aug 92 04:48:04 GMT
Reply-To: timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Distribution: soc

shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:
|We are probably arguing past each other at this point Lui -- I believe that
|there is a need for a group, some group, some identity in the United
|States, at this point in time called "Asian Americans".  I do not believe
|that this group should represent _all_ of the aspects of _all_ of its
|supposed members _all_ the time -- clearly, we are all members of many
|different groups, which we take to represent us at different times.

The group "Asian American people" exists.  But it is not organized,
and probably will never be, as such, because of its internal diversity.
However, there are plenty of organized groups claiming to represent
some segment of the unorganized group of Asian American people.

As an unorganized group, Asian American people are affected by
peoples' perceptions of it; the group affects others (and itself)
only as an aggregate of individuals acting on their own, without
explicit organization or direction.  Obviously, these effects
vary greatly among different members within the group.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
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This message comes with no warranty, not even an implied warranty of
fitness for any particular purpose.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:40:08 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <SHAW.92Aug26005818@whopper.lcs.mit.edu> shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:
>I attacked JJ for using an alias and four white posters attacked me, and no
>Asian posters attacked me.  Why?

Because I thought that the whole argument was silly.  

>Maybe you should explain the racial percentages of the high school as a
>whole, and then explain how people entered the "social elite".  Was the
>"social elite" racially representative of the general population of the
>school?  If not, why not?

Actually, now that you mention it.  There are about 20 Chinese
families where I lived, and all of them were represented somewhere in
the "social elite."  I never noticed that before..........

People entered the social elite when their parents had money,
important jobs in the community and wanted them to go to college.

>Wonderful.  First, let me in.  Secondly, too bad for the rest of the "black
>mass" and "yellow handful" who don't have it as well as the "white mass".

Now that you mention it, ALL the Chinese families had it better than
the "white mass."  Curiously, there were no "Asian-Americans" at our
school.  All the Chinese kids were either "Asian" or "American."

Hmmmmmmm...........

I just realized that I haven't been in a recent (i.e. after sophomore
year in high school) situation in which being Chinese WASN'T an
advantage socially speaking.  Maybe that's why you and I have such
radically different views about American society.

(Our family did catch a lot of hell when we first moved to town, but
by the time I graduated high school, most of it had disappeared.)
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: A Couple Of Thoughts About Race
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 12:12:43 GMT

In article <3758@randvax.rand.org> edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall) writes:
>
>I'll state it differently: many white folks have to be encouraged to
>assimilate into the heterogeneous and multifaceted society they already
>live in.  Many of them are in an acute state of denial.  They fear the
>changes which they see eroding at "their" power.  The solution: expand
>their perception of just who "they" are--who we all are--and these fears
>will no longer find support.  Waking them up to this reality is a hard,
>hard task.  On the surface of it, it doesn't seem fair that anyone
>else should have to make the effort.  But is there an alternative?
>
>		-Ed Hall
>		edhall@rand.org


  You're so right.  If population trends continue, the society will
  necessarily have to be tolerant of multiple cultures and religions.
  Different regions will also tend to have heavy concentrations of
  people from certain ethnic backgrounds.  Already, in some parts
  of Southern California and New York City, it is a disadvantage if
  you don't know some basic Spanish.  California as a whole is around
  50% white, with cities like L.A. and the Bay Area where whites are
  a minority.  So it's not just minorities adapting to the majority
  culture anymore, but people becoming tolerant and accepting of
  a multiple number of cultures.  No longer can you ASSUME a given
  family celebrates Christmas, like you used to in the 1950's.  I've
  learned that just last year when I sent out Christmas cards to
  all my coworkers.  In fact, it never crossed my mind that it would
  be inappropriate to send Christmas cards to my Muslim friend
  in Malaysia.  Of course she never said anything negative and she
  sent me some sort of card written in Bhat(sp?).  But a lot of my
  Jewish friends pointed out it was ridiculous to send Christmas
  cards to people who don't believe in Christ.