From: banksie@khantazi.welly.gen.nz
Subject: Re: men crossing the street at night to avo
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Reply-To: banks_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Organization: My Arc.
Date: 12 Jan 93 22:23:17 GMT
            <9301060221.AA02997@york.cs.ucla.edu>
            <1ifilkINNo04@agate.berkeley.edu>

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

[lots deleted]
> You also have the right to pick your nose on a streetcorner, but are
> you going to do it?  I'm not talking about your rights but about how
> to act around other people.  I'm not saying that you don't have the
> right to be on the sidewalk; no one is saying that all men should be
> ordered off the streets after dark to avoid scaring women.  All
> we're saying is that women are jumpy as all hell, and with good
> reason, and we'd APPRECIATE it if men understood that, and would it
> kill you to make it a bit easier for us?  We'll try to reciprocate
> when it comes our turn.

   I think Janis here has neatly and nicely summed up the reaction of
some of the readers out there. Namely that simply showing some civic
concern is somehow 'infringing' on your rights. It is interesting to
note that it is nearly always Americans who go on about rights and I
sometimes wonder if these ardent rights supporters have lost sight of
the concept of limits to personal freedom which are needed to make
society work. But that is a by-way not relavent to this topic.

   Nowhere has it ever been suggested that men should stay off the
streets, *have* to cross the street or in fact do any *specific*
action. What has been suggested is that by merely spending a small
amount of time doing anyone of a spectrum of actions that indicate
your intentions clearly to another person on the street you can avoid
making them uneasy and generally promote a feeling of safety on the
streets. (slightly idealistic I know, but then I am young and prone to
fits of idealism.) Now could someone please explain to me exactly how
this infringes on anyones *rights*? You are not being prevented from
using the street, about the only thing it might limit is your ability
to move down the street in a threatening manner - which is limited
anyway by other laws as it is.

   And to give an example what I find usually works for me is to
simply smile to the other person, say 'Good evening' and then continue
on my way. Terribly difficult and requiring a grand total of around 5
seconds to implement. What is so hard about doing something like this
that it must be resisted at all costs?

   Finally as a general observation or reading this group for close to
a year now I find it interesting to note the number of times when
simple minor behavior modifications are suggested that the invariable
arguement is that it is unconstitutional and somehow subverting
people's 'rights'. Always the arguement is largely one of "I'll do
what I please because it is *my* right and I don't care what you
think.". Surely these people must be aware that this is a highly
antisocial attitude? Society has always been, and always will be, a
balance between the rights of the individual and those of the society
as a collective whole. Such attitudes are taking individualism to an
extreme and are, to a great extent, responsible for alot of the mess
we see around us.  However if you wish to take me up on this
observation I suggest you email me as it is not a topic really
relavent to soc.feminism, unless someone cares to put a feminist
viewpoint on it for us...

    Philip

--
Philip R. Banks  Syntax: mail < banks_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz >            @@@@@/|
If you can't take a little bloody nose maybe you oughta go back home    @@@@/#|
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wonderous with   @@@/##|
treasures to sastiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for   @@/---|
the timid! --- The Q Entity from 'Q-Who?' ST:TNG                        @/    |

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