From: yal@cltr.uq.oz.au (Yvette Lian)
Subject: Re: GayBashing question
Organization: Centre for Language Teaching and Research, Uni of Queensland, AUSTRALIA.
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 23:53:42 GMT

In article <C1DGu4.89B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> vengeanc@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu () writes:
>Gee.. why don't you give your little speech to a friend of MINE who was
>beat to all hell because he was a white guy walking through Chicago.
>Why don't you give your little speech to all the white guys down here
>who were attacked last year, JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE WHITE.  Funny thing
>is, I don't seem to recall any attacks on gays in that same time period...

Please do give it to your friend.  And don't think for one minute that I
condone what happened to him.  All these hate crimes are wrong and
dispicable.  What I'm annoyed about (if I can use such a light word for
such a strong subject) is that certain crimes (like gay bashing, black
bashings, etc) seem to be considered acceptable by a lot of people who
think it's the "right thing".  These problems need to be addressed.
There's no point saying things like "oh, you blacks/gays/latinos/other
minority group get special rights", then sweeping their problems under the
carpet, nor is there any point in denying the fact that you have those very
same rights.


>Are you stupid enough to think I WASN'T aware of this?  I'm gonna keep
>"spouting" about you liberals until you wake up and see that the real
>world doesn't fit into your little socialist ideal.  You believe that
>the "special groups" don't ever do anything wrong.  This way you can feel
>good when you accuse us "elitist white men" of racism, discrimination and
>oppression.  

Ok, time to stop with the generalisations, mister.  Firstly, I am quite
aware that crimes are committed by all and sundry, be they black, white,
gay, straight, purple-with-orange-spots or whatever.  "us liberals" are
trying to make this world a better place.  That means making straight
people aware of the fact that gay bashing is NOT an acceptable pastime.  It
means making white folk aware that lynching blacks is not acceptable
behaviour.  I can't speak about what happens in America - I don't live
there.  But I do know that here in Australia, it's not common for white
people to be attacked by blacks (although not unheard of).  It's not common
for straight folk to be attacked by a bunch of gay people yelling "fuckern
straight".
BUT IT DOES HAPPEN.  And I acknowledge that with no hesitation.

As for accusing "elitist white men" of racism, discrimination and
oppression... I try to avoid generalisations like that.  They take me
nowhere.  And more importantly, they're just another barrier to
establishing better relationships between groups.


>What about people who are SEEN TO BE WHITE?  You are speaking in pure
>hypocrisy here.  First of all, I have completely condemned hate crimes
>against gays, I just wanna see my friends, us "white hetero source-of-all-
>evil" folk, being defended with as much zeal as the "special folk" (Gays,
>Blacks, Latinos, Women, Abortionists).  There are vast areas of habitation
>in this country where white people SIMPLY CANNOT GO BECAUSE THEY ARE WHITE.
>Why don't you address this fact?  Do you deny it? 

I don't deny it.  You might like to wonder why it's gotten to the point you
can't go places because you're white.  Could it be that the non-white
people living there feel just a little upset by the way they've been
treated in the past 200 or so years?  Could it be they're scared they might
be hurt again by someone they see to be white?  Maybe you should be
addressing the problem.

Looking back on your post, things like "elitist white men" (who appear to
be to blame for everything, according to you), and "white hetero
source-of-all-evil folk" along with "special folk (gays etc)", indicate to
me that you really have no idea what you're talking about.  What's wrong
sweetie?  Did a nice black girl reject your advances because you were being
a slime-ball?  You seem also unaware that anti-discrimination laws work
BOTH ways.  They include YOU.  You ARE protected.. but then again, you
always were.  Now you think that just because others are specifically
included in those laws that i) they don't apply to you anymore, and ii) the
law sees them as "special" folk worthy of better treatment than you.
I wonder why.


>Consider also this little fact: It's a hell of a lot easier to hide the
>fact that you're gay than to hide the fact that you're white.

Don't you believe it, kiddo.  And remember, it really is irrelevant as to
whether you're gay or not.  You only have to be seen to be gay.  Just like
you only have to be seen to be white/black/anything else.


>You exhibit CLASSIC liberal ignorance.  This happens ALL THE TIME.  It's
>just not "media-worthy" because good ole "evil white boy" got what he
>deserved.  You see, how can the LIBERAL media fight for the rights of Blacks 
>and Latinos from discrimination if they actually show those same groups 
>exhibiting the same racism they claim to be experiencing?  

Makes me wonder why the blacks and latinos are discriminating against you
to start with.  

--
Yvette Lian
yal@lingua.cltr.uq.oz.au 
FIDO: 3:640/352 
IRC nick: Maxine2