From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Who cares
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 10:40:22 EST
Organization: Ailanthus Project

heimberg@pacific.mitre.org (Jeff Heimberger) writes:

> In article <1992Jul21.124858.25296@geppetto.encore.com> aaldrich@geppetto.enc
> >tmhoff@oogoody.Corp.Sun.COM (Todd Hoff) writes:
> >
> >I am hearing a lot of defensiveness about the injustice of being one of
> >the priveleged and getting blamed for it..so let me play a little
> >devil's advocate here..
> 
> So let me play Devil's Devil's Advocate here...
> 
> >>Here's a list of things I didn't do, don't support, yet still get blamed fo
> >>because of my race and gender:
> >
> >>1. Slavery. I didn't do it.
> >>2. Kill the buffalo and break treaties with the indians. I didn't do it.
> >
> >But what do you do to lift up the Native Americans now?
> 
> But what do the Native Americans do to lift me up now?

why the fuck should they do anything?  we are (in the us and canada) 
living on THEIR land, and still chasing them off of it is we can find any 
legal hook to do so and there is something valuable on it that we want.  
compared to the way the average native american lives, you are pretty 
fucking lifted up already.
> 
> >>3. Set up the patriarchy. I didn't do it.
> >
> >But what do you do to promote egalitarianism now?
> 
> But what do feminists do to support men's rights now?

why should feminists support men's rights?  men already HAVE them.  
feminism is not about men.

> 
> >>4. Deny women the vote. I didn't do it.
> >>5. Oppress and descriminate against homosexuals. I didn't do it.
> >
> >But what do you do to support gay rights now?
> 
> But what do gay rights activists do to support hetero rights now?

and just WHICH het rights are we supposed to bne supporting, asshole?  
you people already HAVE the fucking rights around here, all we ask you to 
do is get you rfucking boots off our necks and let us have the rights 
that are supposed to be ours by virtue of living in this damned country.  
het rights do not NEED supporting.  our entire society is built around 
supporting them, i do not need to waste my time doing so.

i ask the heterosexials out there - when was the last time you felt 
OPPRESSED by gay people?  not just a little uncomfortable in a gay bar, 
but OPPRESSED.

> 
> >>6. Rape ot threaten women. I swear I didn't do it.
> >
> >But what do you do to change men who do?
> 
> I don't know anyone who has ever raped or threatened a woman.  When in
> a situation that is questionable (like DC at night), I escort the woman
> to wherever she's going.  Maybe she's escorting me?

oh really.  you don't know ANYONE.  never told sexist jokes among your 
friends.  never made lewd comments about women passing by.  never 
compared notes on your girlfriend's sexual performances.  never made 
"humourous" comments about rape or violence.  never just hulked on down
teh sidewalk at night instead of crossing streets to avoid appearing t
to be threatening to a woman walking alone at night.  and never, never of 
course got angry at women who take normal safety precautions upon seeing 
you.
> 
> >>There's a lot more I didn't do, but I'll stop here.
> >
> >I think that Janis said it right the first time..Until men get out and
> >PUBLICLY declare that something is wrong and needs to be righted, we
> >will continue to have sexist advertising, rape, violence, and domination
> >as a norm in our world society. 
> >
> >It's good that you do't/didn't do all of the above, but NOT doing is as
> >good as condoning in practice.
> 
> Baloney.  I don't commit murder, and I don't condone it -- do you?
> What are *you* doing to PUBLICLY declare murder is wrong, and needs to
> be righted?

this is a straw man if i ever saw one.  the discussion is on societal 
injustices, not murder, or arson, or even breaking and entering.  society 
already says that these things are wrong, and they are not generally held 
up for debate.

> 
> There are so many causes that no one has the ability to be *absolutely*
> Politically Correct.  I am only human.  I make mistakes.  I try to
> correct them when I become aware of them.  Any more than that is for
> the OmniPC net.gods and net.goddesses, a position for which I surely do
> not qualify.

ah, in other words, there is too much wrong with the world for you to be 
bothered trying to fix it.  you are already quite comfortable of only 
these damned women and minorities would quit bitching.  well, newsflash, 
we aren't going to quit bitching, in fact, we've only started.  you can 
brush aside the quest for justice as PC if you like.  doesn't hurt us, 
just shows what a boob you are.
> 
> <Donning flame retardant underwear...>

good thing, you'll need it.

apologies to janis for not getting into this sooner.  i was away for the 
start of it, or i would have been in the thick of it from day one.  
although a lot of the posts on this thread have been too long for my 
newsreader to follow up...

                                            -ailsa

ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com   or   io81409@maine.maine.edu
 
are you on fire         what will replace the rent with the stars above,
from the years,         replace the need with love,
what will you give      replace the anger with the tide,
for your kid fears?     replace the ones, the ones, the ones that you love?
Newsgroups: alt.pagan