From: fass@math.uwaterloo.ca (The FASS Theatre Company)
Subject: Re: Clemens Market Value (trade with Toronto)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 15:58:34 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.190438.12406@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>
>I agree whole-heartedly!  The Red Sox don't lack warm bodies to throw
>out there!  We have *PLENTY* of warm bodies.  Some of them are even
>halfway decent prospects.  Why does nobody understand this?  Do you
>not follow the game?
>
>At catcher, the Sox are weak now that Pratt and Wedge have been
>punted.  But Hatteberg is considered a very good prospect, and will be
>the Pawtucket catcher next year.  He may not hit for much power, but
>his plate discipline and defense are supposed to be excellent.
>
The Jays have 4 catchers:  Borders, Knorr, Sprague, and Delgado
Although I'd hate to pencil in Delgado.

>At first base, the Sox have a minor logjam.  Vaughn and Quintana can't
>*both* play.  Well, perhaps Quintana's career is over.  But what the
>FUCK are you doing, trying to trade us Brian Hunter???  Vaughn is
>adequate now, and has the potential to improve.  Hunter is a
>right-handed platoon hitter with no potential in the slightest.

You don't need a first baseman.
>
>The Sox are a bit weak at second base.  Naehring wouldn't be *so* bad,
>if only he were healthy.  But he isn't.  And there's nobody in the
>minors to cover.  But then none of the proposed trades (except the
>Blauser one) includes a middle infielder.  Naehring/Rivera will do, at
>least until a prospect makes it up from A-ball (not that I see any
>great prospects down there) or a trade can be swung (Lou Gorman is an
>idiot, but at least he should be able to get a Lind-caliber player
>without gutting the farm system!).

Robetro Alomar.  I couldn't bring myself to trade him.
Now if the Jays swung a deal for Baerga |-)...
>
>At shortstop we have Valentin.  Nothing special, but he looks to be
>above average both defensively and offensively.  No injury history
>that I know of.  Still moderately young (25 last year).  I won't
>complain.
>

We don't have a shortstop either.

>At third base is Cooper.  So he isn't a superstar.  He is also not
>total trash.  He has a rocket for an arm, decent range, and will bat
>.270 with a .340 OBP.  Power?  A *bit* of power will eventually come.
>On the order of 12-15 HR per year, I expect.  He hit that many in the
>minors, and hit five in September last year.
>

Gruber anyone?  okay maybe not.

>In the outfield we have Plantier (who *does* have star potential),
>McNeely (who *also* has star potential), and Blosser (who has REAL
>POWER and is only 21).  Zupcic can be the OF backup.  This outfield
>may or may not kick ass.  But I see no reason to trade for Gerald
>Williams until *after* we find out what the above three can do.

There is Derek Bell.  Maybe Turner Ward.

>
>And, of course, the Sox are still loaded down with Greenwell, Burks,
>and Brunansky (if he is signed).  Talk about a shitload of shit!  They
>are *STILL* all better than GERALD FUCKING WILLIAMS!!!!
>
>Pitching?  I want to see the young arms get a chance before we make
>any trades.  Gardiner, Minchey, Taylor, Riley, Sele, Rodriguez, and
>the Lynchburg Mob (Lynchburg had something like half of the quality
>prospects in their league this year).  So most of these are low-level
>prospects and have little chance of ever being better than a #3
>pitcher.  Do I look like I care?  With Clemens and Viola (or some new
>free agent signed a couple years from now), you don't *need* a #1 or
>#2 starter.

Tradables are Wells, Stottlemeyer, Timlin, and maybe Ward

>
>So please, if you propose that the Red Sox trade the best pitcher in
>baseball, at *least* give them back some players who are *better* than
>what they already have.  Give us an average middle infielder and an
>average catcher, perhaps.  But you can't just throw in three shitty
>1B/OF/DH types and hope to land a superstar.  The Sox have NO SHORTAGE
>of those.  If the Sox trade for an outfielder or first baseman, he had
>better have *REAL* star potential.
>
>>Jeff Blauser won't win you anything; he'll help but
>>he's not the kind of guy you can build a team around like Roger Clemens.
>
>But he's a nice, solid middle infielder.  I'd take him.  Though not as
>the centerpiece of a deal.
>
>-Valentine
So as I see it the Jays *could* trade 

Delgado, Bell, Duane Ward   for Clemens.

This is arguably the best minor league prospect, a talented, though 
unproven, outfielder and a premier closer.  Is this enough?  Too much?
what would the Jays have to add? Take away?  Please be kind.  I'm new at
this.|-)

Lee.



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