HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Doug.Plaza@f413.n107.z1.fidonet.org (Doug Plaza)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: PHOOGRAPERS ON SCENE.
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1992 09:52:05 -0800

I don't know what the laws are in your state but in New Jersey there
are
laws prohibiting interfering with an EMT while trying to treat a
patient.  In the situation you are describing, we would have the person
removed from the area and arrested if necessary.  Most of the area
police departments would be more than happy to oblige <G>.
                                  Doug Plaza MICP


 * Origin: THE THIEVE'S GUILD BBS  Multi-Gig & Node (1:107/413)
(9(1:107
From: Richard.Shankman@f53.n272.z1.fidonet.org (Richard Shankman)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Software
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1992 11:24:00 -0800

I was reading your message to Scott Wilson and thought I'd drop a note.
If you're considering the paper >>> computer move and would like to see
the software we're offering just drop us a line.  I'd be happy to speed
a demo set to you.


 * OLX 2.1 TD * MagicWare Software Responds to Fire Needs (1:272/52 &
53)


 * Origin: BEAR HEAVEN BBS (914) 677-6948 MILLBROOK NY (1:272/53)

Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
From: kra@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Kenneth R Aron)
Subject: Re: MAST Question
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:59:17 GMT


	From a previous post by Mike Gilbertson...

MG> Not quite true!  New York City does not have permission to have
MG> a different set of protocols.  The protocol for the whole state
MG> was recently modified.  The NYC*EMS people have in-serviced their
MG> people, and the regional EMS council there has gotten the word out to
MG> others.  The revised STATE protocols are at the printers and will be
MG> mailed to providers throughout the state as soon as they are back.

	While there's not a snowball's chance in hell I'm going
to doubt the State's EMS director, this brings up a few
questions.  If this is the case, how come the protocols we
recieved from the City in April or May had these MAST protocol
changes in them?  Also, during my EMT course,we were instructed
not to worry about using the leg straps to a KED because they
weren't used in the City.  When I went home to Nassau Co. the
local VFD had the straps as part of their protocol.  What's the
difference there?  Please explain.

Ken


Kenneth R. Aron                 NYS EMT-Defibrillation            | |  / /
kra@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu      Columbia Area Volunteer Ambulance | |/ / 
                                Columbia University, NYC          | |\ \
"EMTs do it with patience"                                        | |  \ \
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
From: cliff@buster.stafford.tx.us (Cliff Tomplait)
Subject: Re: Volunteer vs. Paid
Organization: Buster irby
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 21:29:22 GMT

bwh1248@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:

>.
>.
>.
>In summary, feel that paid municipal services, supported by fees 
>and tax dollars is the way to go.
>Brian Heath
>PA-NY FF/EMT

I reside just outside the city limits of Houston.  Houston has a
municipal service (EMS is part of HFD) with "paid" EMS.

I volunteer with both Harris County Emergency Corps (oldest in Texas
and (I think) 2nd oldest in the nation) and Community Volunteer Fire
Department.  I also teach EMS and have trained a good number of the 
"paid" EMS of the area.  Many of the college instructor staff are
volunteer EMS members.

My opinion is that the volunteer is a lot more concerned about patient
care on a run-to-run basis than the "paid" EMS provider.  (NOTE:  this
is personal opinion and observation and not intended to be a blanket
statement.)

I've also read several journal articles about the DECREASE in service
and INCREASE in complaints when the shift has been made from volunteer
to municipal.  (no, they aren't handy...yes, they were several years
ago...yes, EMS is still in transition)

Finally, "fees".  HCEC doesn't have a viable tax-base.  It operates in
a VERY poor area of north Houston.  The city (in its wisdom) declined
the opportunity to annex based upon the high cost of providing service
and the low chance of making money (tax).  A volunteer service is the
only real EMS opportunity.  This is the case in many, many areas of
Texas (my limited EMS exposure).

My vote is the actively encourage and train volunteer services.  In
municipal areas, I would expect a volunteer corps to augment the "paid"
staff.

Cliff the Paramedic
(tons of alphabet stuff not listed)
From: Kevin.Agard@f94.n343.z1.fidonet.org (Kevin Agard)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: AFA training..
Date: 5 Nov 92 22:11:00 GMT

To: paque@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Julie Paque)


JP>>The new course - Emergency Response - will teach O2 therapy, I
believe
  >>the course will be released early next spring, they were waiting for
the
  >>new CPR guidelines to come out before releasing the course.  Now
our
  >>chapter has to buy the equipment :(, money is tight these days.

Hi Julie,

This may well be, however, how do they plan to get around the fact
that,
with the specific exception of EMT's and Paramedics, it is still
technically violation of federal guidelines for anyone to dispense
Oxygen without a doctor's order unless in an emergency and then only in
very limited and specific amounts. Most of the commerical setups I've
seen dispense 6 lpm thru a simple face mask for 15. They also limit the
total volume. I don't remember exactly but beleive there is a 410 cubic
foot maximum. This not a very effective treatment for a multi-trauma
patient in shock or a severely cyanotic diff breather.

First Responders serve a very important function but it becomes
dangerous to blur the line between the two. If someone intends to ride
on an ambulance they should be trained to the DOT minimum for EMT-A

I have been a ARC instructor for quite a few years. I am also a
Paramedic and EMS Instructor. It has been my experience that at least
2/3 (a conservative estimate) of the ARC instructors have never been
near a critically or seriously ill or injured patient, let alone have
any real and consistant experience in prehospital care. I don't beleive
credentials such as that are appropriate for a person who will be in
the position of training prehospital care providers. Nor does the ARC
course provide any supervised patient contact for the students.

There are also any number of things which do not relate directly to
patient care which anyone riding an ambulance must have at least a
basic
understanding. The ARC course do nothing to cover such issues. Some of
which involve the welfare of the provider and partner.

Although your message was unclear as to whether you were simply
correcting the statement that the ARC does not cover O2 or were
advocating AFA or Emergency Responders riding on ambulance, if the
later is the case I must disagree!

Regards

KMA

FidoNet:  1:2604/101
C-Serve:  71035,2365
Prodigy:  PMBN50A
Internet: kevin.agard@f102.n280.z1.fidonet.org
          71035.2365@compuserve.com

 * OLX 2.2 * ANYONE WHO CAN'T WAIT A WEEK SHOULDN'T OWN A GUN!


 * Origin: Deredain's Realm BBS - Home of NJ EMT & Paramdedic Assoc.
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
From: kaufman@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Marc T. Kaufman)
Subject: Re: Hazard lights on emergenc
Reply-To: kaufman@CS.Stanford.EDU
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date: 11 Nov 92 16:33:10 GMT

Rick.Wilson@f2112.n327.z1.fidonet.org (Rick Wilson) writes:

>Normally, if an ambulance/police car/fire truck is coming at you from
>behind, you're supposed to pull over to the side of the road and let
>them pass.

>Here in N.E. Ct. it appears to be customary that if a person pulls over
>to the side of the road, and there's another citizen behind them, the
>one behind passes...they don't pull over and let the emergency vehicle
>by.

>I've NEVER seen the stunts people here in New England pulled in the
>midwest...if they DID pull them in the midwest, they'd get nailed BIG
>time.

On the other hand, I have had motorcycles pass me over a double-yellow
line on a mountain road when I was driving an admitedly slow water tender
code 3 to an incident.

And then there are the folks who will run over a line of flares and through
the guy with the STOP sign to get past an incident...
(Never turn your back)

-- 
Marc Kaufman (kaufman@CS.Stanford.EDU)
From: Dwayne.Rich@p20.f1000.n151.z1.fidonet.org (Dwayne Rich)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: RIDING TRUCKS
Date: 26 Oct 92 03:38:00 GMT

In a message of <Oct 24 12:51>, George Vaisey (1:260/237) writes: 
 GV>I am putting to gether a polic for our Junior FF to ride trucks and

 GV>would appreciate any help in this.  If you could send me ideas or 
 GV>copies of your police(s) it would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks 
 GV>again.



        Well when our dept. had junior firemen they were allowed to ride
in the cab of the firetruck only.  If there were other firemen at the
station and wanted to go on the call then the junior firemen had to stay
behind.


Dwayne 


 * Origin: Firefighter Safety is an attitude Cary,N.C. (1:151/1000.20)
From: Paul.Vallone@f233.n321.z1.fidonet.org (Paul Vallone)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Patches++
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1992 18:28:00 -0800

GV> Paul,
GV>         I don't mean to keep you waiting but we officially paid for
them
GV> in about 1 week.  Asoon as I get one its is YOURS.  Thanks for your
GV> patientce.  ALso you mentioned you would copy some Fire Clip Art for
me.
GV> How many low-density disks would I need for your good ones (working
GV> fires,rescues,pumpers, or emblems).  Thanks again.  I really
appreciate
GV> you allowing me to put your patch on my board and waiting this long
for a
GV> patch.  I Really am sorry that it has taken this long.  WOuld have
GV> written sooner but Nominations came up and I submitted one for
PRESIDENT
GV> AND CAPTAIN (too much paper work).  Talk to ya soon.
GV>
GV>
GV>                        George Vaisey
Hi George!!
Like I said before take your time I'm not in know hurry at all..
Now Fire Clip Art is that the same as FIRE.GIF?? And hey thanks alot
too George on the patch trading.. I told yah I have alot of Patiences
:)

        Later

        Paul  
 
 * Origin: Whistle Stop BBS {Berkshire County Fire Board} (1:321/233.0)
From: Gary.Saffer@f290.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Saffer)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Mast Question
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1992 04:12:00 -0800

  }|>      AND     CLEAR Lung sounds

EJ}Pulmonary edema is the one absolute contraindication of MAST.  For
geeks:

EJ}Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Eric,

I think you are asking for someone to confirm or deny the
contraindication for MAST.
 Pulmonary Edema is the one aboslute contraindication, as stated above.
 The reason is actually quite simple. In pulmonary edema the primary
 problem is fluid overload in the lung due to the inability of the left
 side of the heart to pump with sufficient force to overcome the
 Systemic Vascular Resistance. The application of MAST would only make
 this worse and kill the patient. In Pulmonary Edema, unless the
patient
 is in Cardiogenic Shock, hypotension is not the problem. This is the
 reason that you have to check breath sounds before and after applying
 MAST.

MAST is falling out of favor in several areas of the country for a
number of reasons. But at the same time a number of states have added
them to the basic EMT curriculum. Go figure it.

Later

Gary

 * Origin: Kids And Cops _ Lynn, MA _ (617) 599-2499 _ (1:101/290)

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 10:47:00 CST
From:         "Wm. Bryant Faust, IV" <WFAUST@NNOMED.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Fidonet feed

> I agree. Worthwhile info is fine and all should be welcome, BUT
> the personal stuff should go. The trekkies HAVE a couple of their
. . .
> door to HeebeeJeebee, NY  don't really care whether or not their
> ambulance is back on the road this week. ;-)
> --

If the last few days are any indication, I agree that the Fidonet
feed with all of its personal mail is not worth carrying on the
EMERG-L discussion list.

Bryant
WFAUST@NOMVS.LSUMC.EDU
From: Dan.Guenthner@f48.n152.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Guenthner)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: OSHA regs
Date: 4 Nov 92 04:30:28 GMT


 Well a number of ya have been tossing the OSHA regs back and
 forth for some time on what is this and what is that. So let me
 try and set the record straight.
 
 1. OSHA regulations apply to ALL employers (public & private).
 
 2. Whether federally or state enforced at a minimum is the federal
    rule. States may change to make more stringent not less effective.
 
 3. Too much mis-information about the Bloodborne pathogen rules is
    floating around.
 
 4. Use COMMEN SENSE not HORSE SENSE when reading and interpreting
    the rules.
 
 5. Consider what the HAZARD is before you speak on whether the rule
    is good or bad. See the forrest between the trees. Some of you
    can not do this. Not a bad fault, just a fact. Others do not want
    to see the forrest but just their tree.
 
 6. These health regulations come from sound medical information and
    tried and true precautions. Just because OSHA says you have to do
    something DO NOT think it is some town in Wisconsin around the
    Illinois border.
 
 7. Most that blast the regulation(s) do not have the first idea of
    what it is all about. Read the preamble to the regulation in the
    Federal Register before you comment about the GOOD and BAD. You
    will be suprised what you will read there.
 
 Don't take this as a bash...I am just setting the record straight from
 some of the BAD information that was floating around in the echos.
With
 17 1/2 years in the safety profession as a police officer, fire
 fighter/emt OSHA inspector/consultant...I think I know alot about this
 issue.
 
 I would encourage all of you to join a network that is in touch with
 theses issues, called SAF-Net. Each day we are having systems join
this
 Network from all over the country.
 
 * SMRead 3.0  #S302 >  
 
 * Origin: Safety Connection  Home of SAF-Net (1:152/48.0)
From: Shreyas.Shah@f303.n2603.z1.fidonet.org (Shreyas Shah)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: ALBANY
Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1992 11:46:37 -0800

BM>    3's have been intubating here since at least 85, maybe
BM> 84.
BM>    Intermediates are intubating now, not sure when
BM> they
BM>    started, but it's been at least a year ago.
BM>    When I took the 3, they didn't recognize PM level
 
I stand corrected, I spoke to a couple of other 3's and they informed me

that they have in fact been intubating for quite some time. It was the 
intermediates that have been upgrading lately. They are just begining to

recognize the level 4's out in Nassau & Suffolk. Most of the guys tell
me 
it's primarily a liability thing where most of the vol fire depts don't
want 
the added responsibility. Supposedly the counties are finally getting
things 
together and setting up protocols. Right now the 4's have to work as 3's
with 
a few minor differences. You're right, NYS is really screwed up! How
hard 
could it be to admin the same level of care (or at least recognize all
the 
levels) uniformly throughout the state.
 
BM>    I heard about the wild times there, was beginning to
BM>    wonder if it was all just a big party, or if old
BM> married
BM>    folks like me ;-) could/would benefit from going
BM> for
BM>    actual EMS stuff. <g>!!!
 
As much of a good time we had there was a lot of things to learn. (Like
to 
stop drinking at 6 am....just kidding!) It should be great for you
coming 
back into the system. Personally I thought they could have made it
longer 
(more classes/days) but I guess it's just not practical.
 
BM>    with EMS. Our city has become quite active in violent
BM>    crimes, GSW, stabbings, assaults, 90% drug related.
BM> He's
BM> -More-   currently inside (80% of the time) working
BM> in parking &
 
Sounds like your city is turning into a regular little Brooklyn! I must

admit though, with all the trauma we get I've been doing a lot of
'quality' 
medical als calls! Love every minute of it.
 
BM>    I think so too!       Anybody else from here going?
BM>    Darrin Culver said he may go on Sunday. Well, hope
BM> to see
 
Sounds good to me. Hope to see ya up there. Shreyas
 * Origin: Black Box II N.Y. 718-966-7651 4 Lines 9600 v32 1.2gig
(1:2603/303)
From: Paul.Vallone@f233.n321.z1.fidonet.org (Paul Vallone)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Patches++
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 06:56:00 -0800

GV> Paul
GV>         Yep FIRE.GIF or anything else you've got I would like.  What
is
GV> the number of your BBs I'll try and call it.  In about 6-8 wks we
will
GV> get them in.  Thanks again for your patientence.
Hi George:
The number for the board is 1-(413)-448-6292 and plus I can't wait
George. To finally get your fire patch from your dept ,I always said
George I have alot of patientence when it comes to waiting for patches
ect..
I'm glad I got the chance to traded off with you George....
                        Thanks Again.... I'll see yah on the Whistle
Stop
soon

                            Paul..  
 
 * Origin: Whistle Stop BBS {Berkshire County Fire Board} (1:321/233.0)

Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
From: zrepachol@cc.curtin.edu.au
Subject: Re: OOPS!
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:01:40 GMT

In article <7703@lib.tmc.edu>, jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
> In article <4exr24O00iV3I_uqYK@andrew.cmu.edu> sc4e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Scott Cheng-Hsien Chiang) writes:
>>Time out here! I don't think the incident has to do with which state you
>>are in.
> 

Western Australia has a nice 'out', a person acting "... in good faith ..." in
responce to an emergency call is imune from prosecution. There is also a provision
in the criminal code that provides imunity "... from all laws or legal processes
where reasonable in an emergency... "

~Paul
From: Barbara.Mezzanini@f7.n2609.z1.fidonet.org (Barbara Mezzanini)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: ALBANY
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1992 23:24:00 -0800

 SS> I stand corrected, I spoke to a couple of other 3's and
 SS> me that they have in fact been intubating for quite some time. It
was
 SS> the intermediates that have been upgrading lately. They are just

   Ok, that makes more sense!  Our intermediates have
   recently begun also within last year or so (think).

 BM>    I heard about the wild times there, was beginning to

 SS> As much of a good time we had there was a lot of things to learn.
 SS> (Like to stop drinking at 6 am....just kidding!) It should be
great
 SS> for you coming back into the system. Personally I thought they
could
 SS> have made it longer (more classes/days) but I guess it's just not
 SS> practical.

   I really have received great feed back from those who
   attended in previous years. I am looking forward to it :)

 SS> Sounds like your city is turning into a regular little Brooklyn! I

   <G>!

 SS> must admit though, with all the trauma we get I've been doing a lot
of
 SS> 'quality' medical als calls! Love every minute of it.

   Know what you mean! Both counts!!!

 BM>    I think so too!       Anybody else from here going?
 BM>    Darrin Culver said he may go on Sunday. Well, hope

 SS> Sounds good to me. Hope to see ya up there. Shreyas

   Same here!

   *Barb*
... I hope I did not do anything unbecoming a Starfleet officer.
 * Origin: PowerLine 315-865-4070 Marcy NY (1:2609/7.0)

Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
From: jck@kimba.catt.citri.edu.au (Justin Kibell)
Subject: Re: Hazard Lights on Emergency Vehicles
Keywords: beacon strobe siren CHP
Organization: CATT Centre at CITRI, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 22:49:54 GMT

Hi everyone,
	
I have been reading the posts and it seems that everyone is still unclear
on whether the (Christmas Tree) is a good or bad addition to an emergency
vehcile.

Where we operate is very hilly. Most of the roads are only single lane and
very wiggely roads. In the past we have found that once you have been on
the tail of a motorist with the (Interceptor) sirens on they soon get very
!#$&* off and pull over. We do have traffic lights and we just about always
come to a dead halt and press Intercept and then go through when clear. The 
lights are good hear as people know what were up to.

I agree with one guys post about the problem of strobes and eppileppse -
spelt wrong I think - and the Police argument that too many lights will
attract hoards of onlookers. I suppose that out were we live it would be very
hard to get a hoard of onlookers unless we paid for them. We do however,
have a dome on the top of our light mast(s) that is used to warn vehicles
comming over the crests of hills and that light attracts a few people.

I don't have a problem with the need for lights and sirens but I still think
that if people see a vehicle not unlike the GhostBusters mobile, they can't
help but laugh a little. I can't respond to any of the Police(person) :-)
problems with traffic stops as I don't do that but I agree that I wouldn't
want to be on the side of the road and not have some warning to motorists.

On the money side, the Victoria State Emergency Service is volunteer based
and has approx 150 units over all of Victoria. 100 of the 127 accredited
Motor vehicle accident rescue units in the state, 100 are SES. We also do
storm, flood, and general rescue - not fires, CFA do that. The SES have a 
annual budget of $1.5 Million AUS. As many of you are aware, a rescue unit
costs a lot to run with all the equipment. We just cannot afford fancy lights
for the vehicles. Some units still have not got a state issued vehicle and
use someones in the Unit on loan! When you compare the CFA (fire brigade) 
Rural approx $128 Mil and MFB (Metro) $670 million - we don't get a chance.
Anyway - enough of my bleeding heart stories.

I suppose fancy lights are good for the warning to motorists and also can look
good if done correctly, but when over done look pretty Christmas Treeish.

Stay cool.

Victoria State Emergency Service - Eltham Unit - Australia - Volunteers
Road Accident Rescue, Storm damage, floods, earthquakes, cats out of trees!


Justin Kibell: SDL 88 GR Case Tool Development Project - XMelba Version 0.15
               Centre for Advanced Technology in Telecommunications	
               Collaborative Information Technology Research Institute
               jck@jaguar.catt.citri.edu.au	Phone: +61 3 282 2456
From: WRIGHT@MOREKYPR.BITNET
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: Amateur Radio/Ky scanner revised law
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:53:16 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

>The post about the above was sent with a sig.
>it should have been from ME
>
>Tim Wright  KD4OVM
>Dispatcher Morehead State University Police
>BITNET:  WRIGHT@morekypr.BITNET
>PACKET:  KD4OVM@N0ARY.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA

wHAT hAPPENED TO MY Post......

I sent it 30 min before I sent this

Tim
From: Brian.Matlock@p2.f54.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Brian Matlock)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: SOFTWARE
Date: 26 Oct 92 02:03:00 GMT

On Oct 20, Shreyas Shah wrote: 
 SS> The New York City Fire Department BBS has the following files that

 SS> might be of help to you available for download.
 SS> The number is 1-212-964-8090.
 SS> Hope this is of some assistance.
 SS> Shreyas Shah NREMT-P
 SS> NYC EMS Station 34
 SS> --- TBBS v2.1/NM
 SS>  * Origin: Black Box II N.Y. 718-966-7651 4 Lines 9600 v32 1.2gig 
 SS> (1:2603/303)

I am the vice president of the local Volunteer Firefighters Association.
I'm very interested in the files you mentioned.  But I am a little
confused, you list a number (212-964-8090), which is different from the
Origin line.

Are the files available for "file request" by my boss node at 2603/303?

If so, is the 718 the same as the 212 number?

Thanks for your help,
Brian
FF/EMT 2 

 * Origin: Brian's Point in Beavercreek, Oregon  (1:105/54.2)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU