HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ov@head-cfa.harvard.edu (Olaf Vancura)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Keno and Bingo
Date: 16 Dec 92 13:28:24 GMT
Organization: Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA,  USA

In article <1gmcnoINNkt9@agate.berkeley.edu> shindle@ocf.berkeley.edu (Richard Michael Shindle) writes:
>In article <1992Dec15.011237.2789@kronos.arc.nasa.gov> hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec6.181437.1@cc.uvcc.edu> jorgensonke@cc.uvcc.edu writes:
>>>Does anyone know how to figure the odds on Keno...?

This is quite simple, using a computer.  I've done this in the past, and
I'd be willing to do it again and post the results to the net if someone
would send/email me the tabulated payoffs as a function of balls chosen
and caught.  Several things I do recall:  Player's return is of course
75% for one ball, and goes more or less downhill from there.  Large numbers 
of balls are the real killers, with returns bucking 70%, if I remember right.  
The problem is that the payoff of $50,000 ($100,000 now?) should be more like
$10,000,000 or so for true odds.  It's almost impossible to guess 14 or 15
balls correctly if you've picked 15 and they only select 20 out of 80.

Incidentally, if you have a 50 cents off coupon, which used to be very
prevalent in Reno, then Keno can be played to your advantage of roughly 
50%!  Just bet 50 cents and match it with the coupon to see why this is 
so.  Of course, if you bet over $1.50 then the game turns in the casino's 
favor again.  They're not stupid!  Any game where the player has a 50% 
advantage has a betting limit (basically 50 cents) and time limit (1 game 
every 10 minutes or so)!!

Olaf Vancura
CfA
60 Garden St.
Cambridge, MA   02138
From: TRADER@cup.portal.com (Paul Vincent McGinnis)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Pai Gaw
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 22:38:12 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
  <44890020@hpindda.cup.hp.com>

Let's see - from my last trip, when I played Pai Gow with dominoes, I 
remember the following conditions :
Bally's - $10 minimum, 5% fee collected on all winning hands. However,
          they only had one dealer who worked in the evenings.

Sands - $20 minimum, 5% fee on all winning hands. If you go during the 
        daytime, keep an eye out for the Pai Gow pit boss - a rarity
        in Vegas - would you believe a good-looking, friendly young woman?

Paul McGinnis / TRADER@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: guido@island.COM (Guido Marx)
Subject: Re: Tahoe casinos...
Organization: Island Graphics Corp.  San Rafael, Ca.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:46:50 GMT

In article <lis18jINNm9q@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> mannys@thebookstore.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>	I haven't been to Tahoe for years, since it became the yuppie
>hot spot out of the bay area.  And I've never been a fan of Harrah's
>anywhere (too pretentious), although I did like Bill's the last time
>I was up there 5 or 6 years ago.
>
>	So, what's the scoop?  Do Harvey's and Harrah's each have over
>100 tables?

Well, I haven't counted them but it wouldn't surprise me.  The one
caveat is that although they have the tables, they won't open them
unless it is crowded.  I do like staying at Harrah's - the rooms
are quite nice and the winter casino rate is $69.00.  In general,
the b.j. conditions in Tahoe aren't as good as what you can find
in Reno (most places have Northern Nevada rules).  But Tahoe is a
nice place to be (especially if you like to ski).

BTW, I went up last weekend (no gambling) and the snow was awseome- 
the best I have seen for years.

Guido


Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: philipg@sco.COM (Philip Gordon)
Subject: Re: WRGPT II Rules change, anyone?
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:17:45 GMT
Followup-To: rec.gambling
Summary: Agreement


In article <1992Dec16.224539.18611@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> ch2m@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Christopher  Houston) writes:
>Regarding timeouts and penalties on WRGPTII...
>
>> From: ahmcs@world.std.com (Alan H Mintz)
>> Yes. Part of the problem with a shortened timeout is that you never
>> really know when your timeout is, unless you are sitting there waiting 
>> for your mail (and then it wouldn't matter anyway). For example, you can
>> look at the first message of a new hand, see a timeout of tomorrow morning, yet
>> the timeout when it gets to you will be late today instead.
>
>EXACTLY!  That's what screwed me up, and, like someone wrote previously, now
>that it's happened twice, I feel like I'm  doomed for a downward spiral.
>Again, at the very least, I think everyone's twelve hours should be restored
>at the start of the next round (ie., the semifinal round).
>
>Christopher Houston

I also vote for restoration of timeouts at start of next round.  SEVERAL
times our local mail has failed miserably, forcing me to time out 3 times
so far.  Now, I'm really lucky to get the first piece of mail telling me
it's my turn before I time out.  RESTORE TIMEOUTS!

Phil Gordon, struggling along at ~7000 :-(

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: ahmcs@world.std.com (Alan H Mintz)
Subject: Re: WRGPT II Rules change, anyone?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:33:01 GMT

Jonathan Rosenberg <jxr@thumper.bellcore.com> writes:

>From: ahmcs@world.std.com (Alan H Mintz)
>Subject: Re: WRGPT II Rules change, anyone?
>Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:05:06 GMT

>> (Quotes me)

>> One thing's for sure, though. If you time out more than twice and your
>> machine isn't directly connected to the Internet, you're almost 
>> guaranteed to fall into an inescapable downward spiral of timeouts.

>So your argument is that since you often can't respond in time, we
>should all be willing to suffer a slower game.  

No. 

>Or, are you saying that
>there were one-time problems that won't recur & if you just got your
>12-hour timeout back, everything would be peachy?

Yes. Part of the problem with a shortened timeout is that you never
really know when your timeout is, unless you are sitting there waiting 
for your mail (and then it wouldn't matter anyway). For example, you can
look at the first message of a new hand, see a timeout of tomorrow morning, yet
the timeout when it gets to you will be late today instead.
-- 
< Alan H. Mintz | alan@mq.mq.com      | ...!uunet!ahmcs!mq!alan  BEST PATH >
<            OR | ahmcs@world.std.com | ...!uunet!world.std.com!ahmcs      >
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall)
Subject: Re: Non-smoking Casinos
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:23:58 GMT

In article <71534@cup.portal.com> TRADER@cup.portal.com (Paul Vincent McGinnis) writes:
>Last time I was there, the Tropicana had a large non-smoking area. Maybe,
>I can put down - "add a non-smoking section" on my shareholders paperwork
>at the Four Queens (yes, I bought a fair number of shares in their parent
>corporation... it's amazing what a cheap stock purchase commission can
>do to one's sanity...)

If there was any doubt before, there is none now... casino owners do read
rec.gambling.

-- 
Michael Hall            \
NASA Ames Research Center\ Isn't Four Queens' parent corporation bankrupt?
hall@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov \ 
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: mbn@greyskul.hf.intel.com (Mike Northam)
Subject: Re: Tahoe casinos...
Reply-To: mbn@greyskul.hf.intel.com (Mike Northam)
Organization: Shorter Software Solutions
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:22:35 GMT

>>>>> "manny" == Manuel 'Manny' Raposa <mannys@thebookstore.Eng.Sun.COM> writes:

manny> 	I just got a copy of the guide to Nevada casinos ($5 from RGE), 
manny> and I was amazed to see the number of tables at Harrah's and Harvey's
manny> casinos in So. Lake Tahoe.

manny> 	I haven't been to Tahoe for years, since it became the yuppie
manny> hot spot out of the bay area.  And I've never been a fan of Harrah's
manny> anywhere (too pretentious), although I did like Bill's the last time
manny> I was up there 5 or 6 years ago.

manny> 	So, what's the scoop?  Do Harvey's and Harrah's each have over
manny> 100 tables?

Yup.

--
Mike Northam, Shorter Software Solutions, on contract to Intel Corp.
(h) (503) 324-1831 (intel office) (503) 696-4860 (shorter) (503) 357-1010
mbn@greyskul.hf.intel.com
"You ducks are really trying my patience...but you're SOOO cute. --Apu 9F01
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: irwin@uvmark.uucp (Frank Irwin)
Subject: Re: I DON'T LIKE THOSE DAMN L
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 01:49:34 GMT
Organization: VMARK Software, Inc.

In article <724097493.0@bird.com> Kelly.Rosato@bird.com (Kelly Rosato) writes:
>
>My tagline says it all.
>

Yeah,  I don't like those damn l, either.  That's why I changed my middle name
to Abert.

-- 
 ============================================================================
 Frank Irwin                | "I've got 5 tokens.  You've got 5 tokens.
 Vmark Software, Inc.       |  Let's get us a room."
 irwin%uvmark@merk.com      |           -- New pick-up line at the Frontier
From: mbuck@fibers (Michael D. Buck)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Some Las Vegas condit
Date: 20 Dec 92 00:31:28 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Allied Fibers, Petersburg VA

In article <660.787.uupcb@ehbbs.gwinnett.com>, jack.mcgee@ehbbs.gwinnett.com (Jack Mcgee)  writes:
> 
> I'll be taking some employees for a well deserved break in Vegas in late
> January.  If you get a chance, what are the current rules/conditions at
> Harrah's, where we will be staying.  And last I heard, Frontier had some
> pretty attractive single deck $1 games.  Still true?

Harrah's currently has 4 double-deck games (H17, DOA, no DAS) and a
plethora of 6-deckers with (S17, DOA, no DAS).

The Frontier has oodles of single deck games with (S17, DOA, DAS), but
typically only 2 of them are available at $1 minimum bet.  The rest are
$5 minimum, with possibly one or two at $15 or $25.
________________________________________________________________________
Michael Buck                          |
UUCP: dg-rtp!fibers!mbuck             |
Internet:                             |
  fibers!mbuck@dg-rtp.dg.com          |
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: messiah@nevada.edu (mw)
Subject: tripling down @ bj
Originator: messiah@redrock.nevada.edu
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 10:38:04 GMT

This little gimmick won't earn anybody a great deal of money and for
all I know it is well known already but nevertheless...

I was playing Hold 'em @ Circus Circus and afterwards decided to go over
to the Slots-O-Fun to guzzle down some of those 75 cent Heinekens. On the
way over there there was someone handing out Fun Books, so I took the
2 for 1 coupon over to the BJ table & matched it with $1 of my own to meet
the $2 minimum. I got dealt an 11 vs 6 and proceeded to double... er...
triple down... in other words, I put down $2 for my $1 plus the coupon
(which amounts to the same thing as "tripling down.") This is not the first
time I've made that move in there, but it never occured to me that what I
was doing has some interesting repercusions on basic strategy.

My question is: "are there any 'triple down' plays that become favourable
beyond those which are recognized as basic strategy for doubling down?

I would imagine that plays such as 9 vs 7, and 8 vs 4 *might* become
more profitable if it were possible to triple down, any comments?

 
         _/     _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ 
       _/_/ _/_/ _/    _/ _/    _/ _/       _/    _/
     _/  _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/   _/       _/    _/   
   _/     _/ _/    _/ _/    _/ _/       _/    _/        |\     /|
 _/     _/ _/    _/ _/    _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/          | ``''' |
                                                        \(O) (O)/
           messiah@redrock.nevada.edu                 __  \   /  __
 ----------------------------------------------------oooO--(_)--Oooo--
 


Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: messiah@nevada.edu 
Subject: Anybody ever play low stakes stud in Reno/Tahoe?
Originator: messiah@redrock.nevada.edu
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 07:42:42 GMT

Somenoe was telling me the other day that there are a lot of little
1 to 5 stud games in Reno where the rakke is only 5% and a 2 buck max.
I like the sounds of that, anybody car to confirm whether or not this
is true? I prefer Holdem by far, but I don't mind trying my hand at low
stakes stud once in a while if there aint no killer-ass rake on the game.

                               Thanx...

         _/      _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/
       _/_/  _/_/ _/    _/ _/    _/ _/       _/    _/
     _/  _/  _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/   _/       _/    _/   
   _/      _/ _/    _/ _/    _/ _/       _/    _/     |\     /|
 _/      _/ _/    _/ _/    _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/       | ``''' |
                                                      \(O) (O)/
             messiah@redrock.nevada.edu             __  \   /  __
---------------------------------------------------oooO--(_)--Oooo--
 
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: rcj2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (ray.c.jender)
Subject: Re: Handicapping the NBA?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:08:53 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.235303.14260@news.Hawaii.Edu> ibsnat@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Gordon Tsuji) writes:
> 
>December 17, 1992
> 
>I'm going to be in Vegas for Super Bowl weekend and would like to bet
>on some NBA games.  I'm OK with handicapping NFL games, but have no
>experience with the NBA.
> 
>I wondering if anyone has any thoughts or tips that'll help me handicap
>the NBA.
> 
>Thanks in advance
> 
>--Daniel



	Well, I don't follow the NBA from a gamblers stand point,
	but how about this:

		Take Denver when a visiting team has been on the
		road for 3 or 4 games. Theory here is that the
		visiting team will be tired and being in Denver
		will only make it worst!


		Also, in general I would think that the home team
		advantage for any team is bigger in the NBA then 
		other sporting events.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: mhall@netcom.com (Michael Hall)
Subject: Re: BJ: 6 deck strategies
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:30:13 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.183155.29849@microsoft.com> ajayj@microsoft.com (Ajay Jindal) writes:

>Yes but just like there is a different basic strategy table for single 
>deck games and multi-deck games, are there also different playing charts 
>for a multi-deck game based on the TRUE COUNT?

Yes, of course.  I suggest you ftp Steve Markowitz's strategy
adjustment generation program, bj-strat, (which works for any balanced
counting system, any number of decks, and dealer hits/stands soft 17)
from the rec.gambling archives at soda.berkeley.edu.  See the FAQ for
more information on how to access the archives.  If you don't have
the FAQ, you can ftp it from the archives or wait until about January
13 when it should be posted again on rec.gambling.

-- 
Michael Hall   \ Maybe E. Clifton Davis was right.
personal account\ My luck hasn't been so great lately...
mhall@netcom.com \
From: shindle@ocf.berkeley.edu (Richard Michael Shindle)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Keno and Bingo
Date: 16 Dec 1992 04:53:12 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: planecrash.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec15.011237.2789@kronos.arc.nasa.gov> hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall) writes:
>In article <1992Dec6.181437.1@cc.uvcc.edu> jorgensonke@cc.uvcc.edu writes:
>>Does anyone know how to figure the odds on Keno and Bingo?
>>
>>For Keno, I was thinking that if you could figure out the number of picks that
>>would give you the best odds, you could choose your numbers, play in one of
>>those multi-race tickets (say, 1000) and then go on to do some other, more
>>interesting things like the card games and watching the cocktail waitreeses. 
>>Also, does anyone understand how the way tickets work, and their odds?
>
>The odds are not hard to compute, but since they have different payout
>schedules for each different number of spots chosen, it would be a lot of
>work to figure out the expected value for every possible number of spots
>chosen.  Common wisdom is the the expected value is *bad* - one of the
>worst of all casino games.  Plan to lose 20% or more of every bet on
>average.

Every number you pick has a 1 in 4 chance of coming up. If you draw twenty
times out of a jar with 80 balls numbered 1 to 80, the chance you get ball
#1 is 25%. Your net gross from an evening of just choosing one number will
be 75% of whatever you started out with, assuming that on a $2 bet you win
$6. (Net Gross=(probabiltiy that you win)(expected payoff)-(amount bet))
In the case of just choosing 1 number
you'll lose a 1/4 of what you started with. To calculate net gross for
other numbers, calculate the probability that a certain event will happen
multiply that by amount you will win. You add all these numbers up and
subtract the amount of the bet, and that's the expected value of one try.
If you are any good at programming, a computer can do all the # crunching
for you, just put in the formula.

Mike
(shindle@ocf.berkeley.edu)



-- 
It's not love, it's deep seated neurosis. Don't confuse the two.

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: ch2m@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Christopher  Houston)
Subject: Re: WRGPT II Rules change, anyone?
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:26:55 GMT


Regarding the idea of WRGPTII players being able to "earn back" their
time penalties, I agree, although I can also see how it might be a pain
to do in the middle of a round.  One question I have, though, which also
suggests a possible compromise:  is everyone's time-out period restored
to twelve hours at the beginning of the next round (i.e., the semifinal
round)?  At the very least, this should be allowed...

___________________________
Christopher E. Houston
University of Virginia
ch2m@poe.acc.virginia.edu
From: tharvill@cse.unl.edu (Thomas Harvill)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: WRGPT II talk...
Date: 17 Dec 1992 06:28:16 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Distribution: global
NNTP-Posting-Host: cse.unl.edu

Hi there....

I just wanted to write to say that I agree with Roy about keeping track
of response time when assigning seats.  I think this is a really good
idea.  That way, those of us that are more addicted could get more of
the fix....

On the timeout earn back thing... Don't you think that this should be
a little more subjective... I mean, if you have mail problems, and that
was really the cause of your timeout, take your case up with Ron Duursma.
He can't totally be without compassion for extraordinary circumstance.
The rule should probably stay the way it is.  I suppose that the reason
for it was to 'weed' out people who weren't _really_ interested in playing,
and thus hold up everyone else.  But come on, this is America, plea your
case to the judge directly, it is probably inefficient to argue for 
people that we don't want in the tourney anyway (people who time out
flagrantly.... :)  )

Thanks,

Tom Harvill
tharvill@cse.unl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: ahmcs@world.std.com (Alan H Mintz)
Subject: WRGPT II Rules change, anyone?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:12:58 GMT

During conversations with Ron Duursma over the last few weeks, it has come
to my attention that there may be other people in the same "spot" as myself -
having timed out twice (or worse) and finding themselves unable to "keep up"
with the game due to the radically shortened timeout that we now face,
particularly if on the west coast.

I would like to propose that timed-out players be allowed to "earn back" their
timeout hours with things like advance actions and so-many-hands-without-a-
timeout. 

While Ron has indicated that he is unwilling to make this change in the
middle of the tourney, I feel (maybe wrongly so) that enough interest
in such a change may persuade him (and the others of the "rules comittee").

Comments?
-- 
< Alan H. Mintz | alan@mq.mq.com      | ...!uunet!ahmcs!mq!alan  BEST PATH >
<            OR | ahmcs@world.std.com | ...!uunet!world.std.com!ahmcs      >
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jsosa@encore.com (Joe Sosa)
Subject: Re: WRGPT II Rules change, anyone?
Reply-To: jsosa@encore.com (Joe Sosa)
Organization: Encore Computer Corp
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 04:12:11 GMT
News-Software: NN 6.4.16

Just me two cents,

One, if you happen to timeout due to uncontrollable circumstance, sorry,
but it will happen to everyone.  It has happened to me once.  But this
tournament is not supposed to last for more than a year, and by the way 
things have been moving along, it just might, only one table has advanced
to the second round.

Two, I do like the idea of restoring timeouts at each round.  If the players
aren't going to have the same dollar amounts going into proceeding rounds,
then at least they all can have the same amount of time to make decisions
to start with.

Three, I don't like the idea of putting all the slower people and all the
faster people segregated at tables.  Imagine the consequences!!  Table FAST
advances to the next round in 40 days, while Table SLOW is just finishing
hand number 12.

The tourney is really neat being my first time, I've learned VALUABLE lessons
coming from a high of 15000 down to 8800 currently....don't let your ego
get in the way!

My nickname is Slow, but I'm not in this tourney.

Joe

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   ----- ----  /--- |  Joe Sosa -- jsosa@encore.com -- Encore Computer Corp.
    /   /---   \    |  Go Dolphins, AFC East, AFC, Super Bowl...the road to #1
----   ----  ---/   |  Go Gators, SEC Repeat!!  Beat them Semi-holes!!!
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall)
Subject: Re: Keno and Bingo
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:12:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec6.181437.1@cc.uvcc.edu> jorgensonke@cc.uvcc.edu writes:
>Does anyone know how to figure the odds on Keno and Bingo?
>
>For Keno, I was thinking that if you could figure out the number of picks that
>would give you the best odds, you could choose your numbers, play in one of
>those multi-race tickets (say, 1000) and then go on to do some other, more
>interesting things like the card games and watching the cocktail waitreeses. 
>Also, does anyone understand how the way tickets work, and their odds?

The odds are not hard to compute, but since they have different payout
schedules for each different number of spots chosen, it would be a lot of
work to figure out the expected value for every possible number of spots
chosen.  Common wisdom is the the expected value is *bad* - one of the
worst of all casino games.  Plan to lose 20% or more of every bet on
average.

>For Bingo, does anyone know how to figure the odds?  If I knew the odds, I
>might play more bingo.  Besides, after playing 21 all day, it might be nice to
>do something else for awhile.

Ah, now here is an interesting case.  Blackjack Confidential reports the
house takes on most casino games.  For bingo, some casinos, or groups
of casinos, had a negative house take over several large periods of time
(months or quarters.)  (I haven't seen Blackjack Confidential for over a
year, however.) In other words, unless there was a statistical fluke or
some creative casino bookkeeping, bingo is (or at least was) a positive
expected value game for the players at some casinos.  The casinos may be
liberal on bingo to draw in the wives, leaving the husbands free to lose
their shirts at the tables. I guess it's impossible to compute expected
value exactly, since for one thing you don't know is exactly how many
other bingo sheets are in action and how likely it is that someone misses
a spot.

-- 
Michael Hall            \Sir, pick up your bingo markers and step away from the
NASA Ames Research Center\table. You may not play bingo here anymore. But feel
hall@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov \free to play slots, blackjack, or any other game.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling