HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason 'KodaK' Balicki)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 00:02:56 GMT

In article <C0rILD.3FH@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:

>So what you are saying is: The amiga is flexible if you turn it into a
>PC/Amiga.  Ok, I'll accept that.  Too bad you have to pay so much for

No, he said that the Amiga is MORE flexible when you EMULATE a PC/Mac
(you said "Amiga", but I knew what you meant.)  Those qualifiers
make a big difference, eh?

>the Amiga half...and indeed for the PC half.  A BB is almost as much as
>a motherboard+harddrive!

So, can you multitask an Amiga emulator with that "motherboard+harddrive"?

>Because, in the Amiga world, you all agree that AmigaDOS is the
>Ultimate(tm) operating system because you have no choice.  Some prefer
>Unix and say "but there is Amiga Unix."  In the PC world, we recognize
>that differnt OSes have different strengths and weaknesses, and
>everybody chooses their favourite.

And some of us chose an Amiga because we liked AmigaDOS.

>Some like Unix's command line.

AmigaDOS has that.

>Some like OS/2's power.

AmigaDOS has that.

>Some like Dos' system resources requirements.

512k + 512k ROM isn't that bad.  AmigaDOS has that.

>Some like Windows' applications.

Got me there.  Not a falt of the OS though.

>Some like Solaris and NextStep's development tools.

And you have NextStep486 do you?

>Some like Linux's cost.

AmigaDOS is free with every Amiga.

>We have choice...we are not C= following lemmings.

I did some major shopping around when I bought my Amiga.

--Jason Balicki
kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: Advocacy? What do you want for the Amiga?
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:18:03 GMT

In <C0qEn2.EKo@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>   HA!  That'll be the day!  How is Commodore going to improve the printing of
>outline fonts when the OS lacks even the barest of font-substitution features
>to make improvements possible?

You still do not listen. Font substitution is a neat feature to avoid
programmers to think.

>crucified.  But Amiga owners seem perfectly willing to accept garbage such as
>this.  Strange...)

If a developer produces such garbage then the Amiga owners in general seem
perfectly willing to accept it... what great logic of yours.

>RTG is a beginning, not an end.  With RTG in place, the Amiga would still
>lack the applications to take advantage of it.

Can't you see that programs will _automatically_ use what ever RTG gives ?
Tell me any program on the Mac that actually _supports_ a multiheaded
display and then you can see the percentage of applications that would
need extra _support_ of RTG.

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Advocacy? What do you want for the Amiga?
Date: 10 Jan 93 17:10:10 GMT
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario

In article <C0MEA7.MwA@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
writes:

>Thus, if Commodore were to write a 'works' package to be included with 
>some Amiga system, the included word processing, spreadsheet, database, and
>drawing software would be compared to the word processing, spreadsheet,
>database, and drawing software included with Claris Works or MS Works.

Given the waning popularity of Geoworks Professional in the PC market,
why not simply have Berkeley develop an Amiga-specific version of Geoworks?
The expense of having one of the major players develop such a package
would be prohibitive, while I'd prefer CBM to commit their internal 
resources to getting RTG and 3.1/4.0 out the door. Geoworks would offer
a reasonable compromise, and a package which would prove to be a lot more
useful than AmigaVision for the average user.
From: glovercj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Advocacy? What do you want for the Amiga?
Date: 8 Jan 93 18:16:25 GMT
Organization: Drexel University

In article <1ikbncINN6cb@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> dstuve@storm.CS.ORST.EDU (David
Stuve) writes:
>It still seems to me that this is the true .advocacy stuff, and that
>the other BS (flame wars, mostly) deserves to be in a comp.sys.amiga.flames
>group.
>
>BTW, not one person responded with what they want to see on the Amiga.
>Sigh.
>
>-David
Here's some things I'd like to see for the Amiga:
	1) Industry-Standard Software-i.e. So everyone can stop staying well the Amiga
doesn't have Lotus & Execel, and Word, therefore it is not a viable computer in
the workforce.
	2) Retargetable Graphics, so I can have all the graphics capabilities I can
afford and not have to worry about will someone update their software so it'll
work with my graphic board.
	3) CDXL compressed format that has built in software compression, like
QuickTime.
	4) A Multitasking WorkBench. You know why.
	5) HotLinks Integrated into the System
	6) Full 24-bit color & support
	7) Full Color Icons, not just 8 & 16 Color, we've got a 24-bit palette now
	8) Full Postscript Support
	9) Faster & Better Printer Drivers(Perhaps not even drivers, but a program
that could learn your printer so you wouldn't have to buy drivers.
	10) Support for DSP Sound Boards
	11) Multi-Copressing CPU's
	12) A Network News Reader & FTP Transfers
	13) Networking
	14) Full speed serial & parallel ports
	15) File Sharing Capabilities
	16) More Programs( Adobe PhotoShop, Aldus PageMaker, Canvas, TypeStyler,
WordPerfect, etc.)
	17) And lastly most of all... Advertizing! Advertizing!!!

I think that's it for now.
 

                        Chad J Glover
           glovercj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu      
       Drexel University Software Testing Lab
   If a man hasn't found something he will die for, he
                        isn't fit to live. --MLK
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:09:36 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Jack Radigan (jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov) wrote:
:
: >That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.  Don't you relize that the
: >minimal-RAM machine wouldn't run AT ALL without VM?
:
:   Although 4Meg is the bare minimum for OS/2 by itself, loading it down with
: several applications pushes the bare minimum up to 8, maybe 12Meg of ram, it
: all depends on how large your swapfile gets to figure out if you're pushing
: the system too much.  When that happens, you add more memory, which drops
: the amount of memory swapping down.
:

I agree that if you swap constantly, it's time to add more RAM.  That's why
I wouldn't use OS/2 on a machine with less than 8MB.  However, my point was
that you can't blame VM for the bad performance of a machine with not enough
RAM.  Without VM, that machine/software combination wouldn't run at all, and
that is even worse performance than bad performance.  It's like blaming the
crutch for your inability to do the 100-yard dash while your leg is broken.

:   -jack-
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 12:04:31 GMT

>>What do you define as "SVGA."  Trident SVGA is about equivalent to AGA.
>>It's also about $50.00.
>
>	So, the Trident card can put 262,144 colors onscreen at once? In the
>same resolutions as the Amiga can, such as in 1280x512? It supports PAL and
>NTSC? Does it record to videotape? Does it support multiple screens like the
>Amiga does? Sprites? Plus all the playfield options and animation capabilities?

All I was saying is that SVGA is a wide spectrum, you can't say "SVGA
is this and SVGA is that."  Trident is certainly not as good as AGA,
but then trident is dirt cheap.

>	If you do want it, you DO pay for it, and I mean PAY.

Hmm, i wonder how much an alternate, 16 bit, wave synthesis sound card
for the Amiga costs?  Or an internal modem?  Or a video upgrade (for
the non-AGA machines).

>	What are the differences between the 66 and 33 mHz 486 chips?
>Other than the fact that one is double clocked?

One runs TWICE the speed of the other.  That doesn't mean system
performance doubles, but it sure as hell improves by quite a bit.

>	Amax II+, Emplant, 486 Vortex board, 386 CBM board.

Ahhh, so you can pay MORE for a 486 CPU then a full 486 computer...good
plan!



Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: rayhann@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Rayhann CHEE)
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Organization: Department of Computer Sci, University of Melbourne
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 11:33:53 GMT

In article <C0CFro.MuE@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>In article <1993Jan4.114316.11600@klaava.Helsinki.FI> lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad) writes:
>>MB is so objective: approximately 2 lines of Amiga OS strenghts, and
>   
>   Commodore USED to have something called NotePad that could have eventually
>been expanded to an all-purpose document viewer like TeachText.  But, true to
>form, Commodore abandoned it.  I wish Commodore would do two things: come up
>with an IFF form for a text file with imbedded ILBM graphics.  Then write an
>update for NotePad, minus the editing capabilities, that can view documents
>with this IFF form.  An even better solution would be to rewrite the
>ASCII-based AmigaGuide so that it supports color graphics in addition to
>boring text.  

Uhm just a question.. I thought somewhere that C+ has included in WB3 a la
A4000 something called Multiview that allows the viewing docs? Correct me
if I'm wrong but *please* hold your flames... *at least till after summer* :)
`
>
Rayhann,,,
who's stuck using a very unfriendly modem program,,, ;(

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas)
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 03:57:41 GMT
Organization: StarNine Technologies, Inc.

In article <1992Dec24.013559.22135@usl.edu> das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>In article <jbickers.0lzu@templar.actrix.gen.nz> jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers) writes:
>>
>>    After booting from a floppy, most Amigans just get on with playing
>>    the game!
>>
>That's just not true.  This Amiga 1000 next to me needs disk-swapping
>all the time.  I have piles of floppies laying around here on my 8' long
>computer table.  
>
>(You know 'oh, that crashed, lemme reinsert Kickstart, lemme reinsert
>WB.  Lemme put in another disk.' routine.  Harddrives, for any computer,
>are *great*.)  Obviously, whenever a harddrive-less computer runs large
>programs, disk-swapping is inevitable.

Hmmm.  "I shot myself in the foot, and damn!  Now I'm feeling pain!"

Dan, in a recent post, where you initially admitted bying your 1000, you
called it the "absolute bottom of the line" or something like that.
And now you want to complain about swapping disks?

Ok, netters.  Let's all prepare for a barrage of complaints about
how badly the most ancient Amiga stacks up against 486 machines.

We've already had to endure his railing about flicker.  That, after
he bought an Amiga 1000 and a 1080 monitor at bargain-basement
prices.  Seems if flicker was that important, he would have
purchased a flicker-fixer (they ARE available, Dan) and a Multi-sync
monitor (ever heard of those?).

Oh, but then we start talking true investment, though, right Dan?
Perish the thought of actually pumping a little dough into that
Amiga.

Naw, 'cause Dan's goal is to own the worst so he can blather on
about how it flickers, has to swap disks, next it will be no internal
expansion slots, then lack of SCSI (or IDE)... there's usually lots
to complain about when you buy the oldest, cheapest available.

So remember... Dan's comments are as credible as anything any one else
has said... 7 years ago.  Great hindsight, Dan.

Dan, on that bargain-basement wonder, you can add up to 4 floppies,
and a bootable ram disk.  You also have a fully pre-emptive
multitasking machine that will hook directly to a vcr, hi-fidelity
stereo, genlock, etc.  Why? Because the OS and hardware technology
of 7 year old Amigas is the equal of what ibmers are starting to
get used to.

Yep.  You folks are just discovering how cool multitasking is!  (even if
most of you never see anything better then Mac "multitasking" <choke...gasp>)
And video/graphics...You cloned mentals are beginning to enjoy the fruits
of what your bargain-basement wonder was thrilling someone else with
SEVEN-YEARS AGO!

Eventually you start catching on, but, like most things you 
blue-brains do, you do it slowly and and in mediocre fashion.
It's good that you finally own an Amiga, but it's not surprising
that you bought such an old one.  That's just the way you folks are...
we unserstand... your standards aren't very high.
From: ggranger@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Greg Granger)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM makes dealers look like liers
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 07:45:36 MST
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #1, Edmonton, AB, Canada

<CTLCC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:

- CBM has again made it's dealers look bad. Besides the fact that they never
- inform dealers on upcoming products and the dealers are the last to know
- anything that CBM does, they also give us shipping dates that they never stic
- too. CBM promiced us that we would have A1200s on Dec 28 1992. We were to
- recieve 24 machines. We never got them. We did get a shipment the next day of
- A2000s and 600s, but we only recieved 2 a1200s. Customers who we told about t
-  shippment were extremely angry and hostile. We called our CBM rep and they t
- d us that they would send 10 of the UPS red label. It never arrived. We final
- recieved 18 today. Not UPS red like they said they would do.
- 
- This and other things CBM do are the reasons why a majority of dealers don't
- carry Amiga machines. If CBM keeps up then eventually you will only be able t
- get them mail-order.


Hmmm ... this kinda sounds like the stuff that Atari might do.  At least 
CBM *released* their A1200 & A600.  We, as Atarians, are still waiting 
for their Falcon machine here in North America.  People have reported on 
comp.sys.atari.st that they have Falcon machines in the UK and Germany.  
Just call me a very disgruntled Atari user.  (I guess it's just about 
time to buy that 486!  (NOT!))

========================================================================
| Gregeory C. Granger  (GGranger@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca)  |  "All these  |
| 5516-190A Street  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6M-2L3   | memories will|
| Phone:      +1 (403) 483-2049  OR  +1 (403) 481-5110  |  be lost in  |
========================================================|  time, like  |
                                                        | tears in the |
                                                        |     rain."   |
                                                        |  - Roy Batty |
                                                        ================
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: storm@cs.mcgill.ca (Marc WANDSCHNEIDER)
Subject: Re: RISC Amiga?
Organization: SOCS - McGill University, Montreal, Canada
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 15:17:48 GMT

In article <C0LMIx.2Iv@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason 'KodaK' Balicki) writes:
>In article <1993Jan9.152234.28078@wam.umd.edu> rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes:
>>
>>	With everyone else fleeing Motorola's 68k, does anyone know
>>	if commodore plans to get away from the 68k line to a new
>>	chipset?
>
>Who's fleeing the 68k line?  Apple?  Not likely, it'll be a while
>for the PowerPC, and even then they'll keep the 68k line up to
>see of the PowerPC sells.

	The lifetime of the Motorola 68k line of chips DOES seem to be rather
limited.  The 68060 won't be out until at least a YEAR after the Pentium or
so, and the performance estimates for it aren't *stunning* for a hot new chip.
(last I heard, they were expecting about 70-80MIPS on it....) By 1994, they
might even be mediocre.

	I'm very interested to see what happens to the AMIGA in the future. 
It seems as though a large part of it is heavily tied into the 68k chips, and
large numbers of people are still writing in assembly language.

	The development time for CISC Chips these days seems to be just a
little too long, giving RISC Manufacturers the opportunity to release two
generations of a chip for every one that Motorola or Intel can.

	It will be neat to see what Commodore does in the future.

	Toodlepip!
	Marc 'me.
-- 
  storm@cs.mcgill.ca           McGill University         "-- Attack ships on
  Marc Wandschneider           Montreal, CANADA             fire "
	Any opinions expressed are not mine, but those of the Demon Lord
      Yeegeheeegenogohugu who possessed me whilst I munched on Raisin Bran.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mike@rahul.net (Mike Smithwick)
Subject: Jim Dionne mentioned in MicroTimes
Organization: a2i network
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 08:30:37 GMT

[]
The January 4 issue of Microtimes has their usual 100 "most influential
people" (in the computer industry) list, and Jim Dionne is given a brief
writeup.

The opening lines are quite good:

Historically Commodore has always seemed blessed with great
machine and devoted users and cursed with a nearly frightening
inability to capitalize on these assets. For the past few
years the Amiga has languished to the point where many devotees
reluctantly abandoned the platform and the company's marketing seemed most 
skillful at creating new feet in which to shoot itself.

However, the release of the long-awaited Amiga 4000 may change all
of that.

....

It then talks a bit about the 4000 and Dionnes plans for it.


 

-- 
This message brought to you by the Happy Fun Ball! It's Happy! It's
fun!! It's the HAPPY FUN BALL!!! (Still legal in 16 states)
*** Mike Smithwick - mike@rahul.net 
*** No disclaimer is necessary since I only work for myself, HA! HA! HA! HA!
From: Ray_Hines@dream.uucp (Ray Hines)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Deleting Directories Re: VistaPro & clones
Date: 12 Jan 93 04:35:36 GMT
Organization: DreamStates BBS & CyberNet HQ in G'ville, FL   1-904-331-4317

In a message dated Sun 10 Jan 93 14:02, Das9674@ucs.usl.edu (stephenson Dan
wrote:

 DD> Good grief, you people really though Windows users were SO depraved
 DD> that they bought a directory-deleter for a hundred buck! Gimme a
break!  

Yeah.  Sad, ain't it? :)

-- Via DLG Pro v0.995

* IF replying by MAIL, please reply to the addresses listed below...
--__-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 / /\     Raymond Hines              Internet: Ray_Hines%dream.uucp@ufl.edu
/_/  \  DreamStates BBS                    or: dream!Ray_Hines@ufl.edu
\ \  /   1-904-331-4317                  UUCP: uflorida!dream!Ray_Hines
 \_\/ FidoNet 1:3601/30  DreamStates: An Amiga supporting Amiga, Mac, IBM!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: manacsa@l13ff.jsc.nasa.gov (Gerry Manacsa)
Subject: CNN FutureWatch + B5 + Toaster
Organization: Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:41:31 GMT

CNN's FutureWatch program recently did a segment on the plethora of new
SF TV series, including Babylon 5.  They commented on the revolutionary
special effects created with personal computers 'not much different from
the ones you have at home' (that's a pseudo quote, I don't recall the
exact words...).

They said they would do a more in-depth segment on Babylon 5's special
effects 'soon.'

Thought y'all might be interested...

=====================================================================
Gerry Manacsa (manacsa@l13ff.jsc.nasa.gov)
Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Company
---------------------------------------------------------------------
These are my opinions... nobody else's... etc.
=====================================================================
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 02:00:50 GMT

In article <58245@dime.cs.umass.edu> barrett@astro.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett) writes:
>	It's ALWAYS easy to pick apart something you didn't design.  Any
>computer, any piece of software, or any product imaginable can be
>methodically trashed for not providing some features or capabilities.  It's
>simple.

   But the Amiga makes it especially simple.  Many of the problems I mentioned
should not have made it past the beta-test stage, and yet have made it through
one than one final OS release.  Things like the defects in the implementation
of CrossDOS.  If having two disk icons for every disk was a "feature" 
Commodore would have left the FastFileSystem that way, since the FFS did 
exactly the same thing under 1.3.  Yet Commodore rewrote the FFS to remove 
this "feature", but has never bothered to do so for CrossDOS in 2.1 or 3.0.

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of another computer
is a kludge.  It has nothing to do with the AGA chipset." -- me
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 22:15:56 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Gregory R Block (bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu) wrote:
:
: >Could you please mail (or post) the source code?
:
: I'd love to, but it's something I hacked together at the PC lab at
: school.  I'm not even sure where it would be.  I think I was using PC9
: that day, so if it's still there, I'll bring it home.  But they
: routinely delete everything in the temp drive, so we'll see.
:

How convenient.

:
: It's really not hard to do.  Just look for the image, and remove it.
: I should really have tried to find out just how far into the image it
: got...
:

Look for what image?!  How do you delete something from memory, by just
overwriting it with zeros?  If you went screwing around the memory of the
machine, no wonder it died!  The whole concept of deleting the DOS kernel
from memory just doesn't make any sense.

:
: Ah well, it makes an interesting experiment.  Someone from microsoft
: said that it uses the MS-DOS interrupts, so that probably would
: explain it.
:

Not when running FastDisk!

: Greg
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy