HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: phil@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Phil Gustafson)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: 1401
Date: 15 Aug 92 21:19:07 GMT
Organization: Famed Parquet Floor

In article <1992Aug13.202908.16052@tandem.com> VanVleck_Tom@tandem.com writes:
>Tim Phillips writes:
>|> (I could write scads more about 7090s and 1401s; IMHO the 7090 was a great
>|>  machine, the 1401 a P.I.T.A.  :-) )
>
>My opinion's different.  While I loved the 7094, I still think the
>1401 was the last computer that Really Worked.  No smoke, no mirrors,
>no suspension of disbelief required.  I mean, the 1401 did stuff you
>could explain to your mom.  You could step it through the decoding of
>instructions, watch it move characters, and so on. None of this
>"operating system" stuff, no "libraries," nothing up its sleeve.

The 1401 (though before my time) was a revolutionary computer.  It was very
good at reading data from punched cards, performing simple manipulations
on the data, and punching, printing, or taping the results.  It was perfect
for, say, water bills, and cheap enough for small water companies.  It
made computers available to middle-sized companies the same way the PC
made them available to small companies and individuals twenty years
later.

And occasionally it was drafted into more entertaining service: It
was the platform for the Bresenham line-drawing algorithm. (Ref. Around
Somewhere if you Really Care.)

phil

-- 
|play: phil@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG; {ames|pyramid|vsi1}!zorch!phil                |
|work: (Under Construction)              | Phil Gustafson                   |
| "Never give up!  Never!  Never!  Never!"                                  |
|                                          H. Ross Perot, 1992              |
From: hugh_davies.wgc1@rx.xerox.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: you know you've been hacking too long...
Date: 21 Aug 92 12:17:49 GMT

agc@bmdhh298.bnr.ca (Alan Carter) says;

<...
I just watched someone tap a whiteboard with a marker pen, twice in quick
succession, to cut & paste a function argument...
...>

They weren't a Xerox LiveBoard user, by any chance, were they? 'Cos if they
were, and it had been a LiveBoard, that would have worked just fine . . .

Regards,

Hugh.
------------------------------------------------------
Snr. S/ware Engineer, MC&SE, Rank Xerox European Systems Centre, Welwyn Garden
City, UK.
From: fetrow@biostat.washington.edu (David Fetrow)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: DataPoint (Was: Non Unix-OS's)
Date: 21 Aug 92 08:12:26 GMT
Organization: Biostatistics, School of Public Health, Univ. of Wash.

In article <92233.085628RJAQUES@ESTEC.BITNET> RJAQUES@ESTEC.BITNET (Roy Jaques) writes:
>Arcnet 
>could be described as a success compared with their other offerings, there is a
>RFC about running TCP/IP protocols over Arcnet but I havent actually read it -
>maybe I should just to remind me what I got away from
>

 With all due repect: ARCnet was (and the new highspeed version still is) rather
slick and very very dependable. It was "plug and play" (almost) when Ethernet
was having interop problems between vendors equipment.

 Rather nice for small installations.

-- 
 - dave fetrow-					fetrow@biostat.washington.edu

"Non-disclosure: In exchange for a sniff of the vapor, you are forbidden
                 to tell anyone how it smells."
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: pdt@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Peter David THOMPSON)
Subject: Re: 9600 baud ignorance??
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 01:24:07 GMT

I have a proposal: Why not name modems by the most important descriptor of
all: Transfer rate.

Example : "My FrobCo modem transfers 8K per second using Zmodem from
XYZsite."

This also allows us to factor the rest of the world in with the modem;
i.e. it's no use trying to run @9600 on a party line :')

* These opinions belong to pdt@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU unless otherwise specified.
Warning: Uninformed readers may gain the impression that I know what I'm
talking about.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,rec.humor
From: pt@geovision.gvc.com (Paul Tomblin)
Subject: A Computer Song
Reply-To: pt@geovision.gvc.com
Organization: Not officially GeoVision Systems Inc., Ottawa, Ontario
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 17:59:38 GMT

Here's a song, written by Nigel Russell, and performed on the album "Stan
Rogers - Between the Breaks...Live!" (1979)

  White Collar Holler
  -------------------
  Well I rise up every morning at a quarter to eight
  Some woman who's my wife tells me not to be late
  I kiss the kids goodbye, I can't remember their names
  And week after week, it's always the same

  And it's Ho, boys, can't you code it, and program it right
  Nothing ever happens in this life of mine
  I'm hauling up the data on the Xerox line

  The it's code in the data, give the keyboard a punch
  Then cross-correlate and a break for some lunch
  Correlate, tabulate, process and screen
  Program, printout, regress to the mean

  Then it's home again, eat again, watch some TV
  Make love to my woman at ten-fifty-three
  I dream the same dream when I'm sleeping at night
  I'm soaring over hills like an eagle in flight

  Someday I'm gonna give up all the buttons and things
  I'll puch that time clock til it can't ring
  Burn up my necktie and set myself free
  Cause no'one's gonna fold, bend or mutilate me.

You have to realize that Stan usually sang songs about oceans, schooners,
fishing, or farming.  This was kind of a change for him.

(Punctuation and spelling as per the liner notes)
-- 
Paul Tomblin, pt@geovision.gvc.com or {uunet,revcan}!geovision!pt
(This is not an official opinion of GeoVision Systems Inc.)
"Beebelbrox, over here!" "No, Beebelbrox over here, who you?"
"A friend." "Anybody's friend in particular, or just well disposed to people?"
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:12644 comp.lang.misc:2730
From: guido@cwi.nl (Guido van Rossum)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: Indentation
Date: 17 Aug 92 09:19:16 GMT
Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers

rh@smds.com (Richard Harter) writes:

>If my understanding is correct the off-side rule is not at all the same
>as using indentation as the loop/if scope indicator.  The off-side rule
>really controls the circumstances for continuing a statement from one
>line to the next.

Oops, I don't know about the "off-side" rule.  Would you (or anyone)
care to explain it, preferably with examples?  (I'm afraid I'll have
to admit I've never really studied functional languages...)

--Guido van Rossum, CWI, Amsterdam <guido@cwi.nl>
"Do you want to have just one argument or were you thinking of taking
a course?"
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: pzs@ficus.webo.dg.com (Peter Z. Simpson)
Subject: Re: Your co-worker may be an alien
Date: 14 Aug 92 07:24:47
Organization: Data General Corp., Westboro, MA

>>>>> On Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:23:47 GMT, soley@trooa.enet.dec.com (Norman Soley) said:


> Sometime in the last decade one of the supermarket tabloids published a 
> list of 10 ways you could spot aliens among your co-workers. The list was 
> written so as to suggest that computer geek types were actually aliens.
> I remember it was posted on the door of the CSC room at Waterloo, among 
> other places. Anyone else remember this or better yet have a copy?

    This information *must* be posted! It's vitally important to the
security of our country (and yours, too!) that we be able to identify
space aliens wherever they may be.

    :-)


--
  Peter Simpson, KA1AXY       (508) 870-9837  fax: (508) 898-4212
  Data General Corp.  E236    pzs@ficus.webo.dg.com [128.221.228.82]
  Westboro, MA  01580         #include  <std_disclaimer.h>   
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:12742 comp.unix.misc:3278
From: ivie@cc.usu.edu (CP/M lives!)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Date: 19 Aug 92 10:48:04 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <bqt.714224577@Minsk>, bqt@Minsk.docs.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) writes:
> In <repo.037m@depo.UUCP> repo@depo.UUCP (repo man) writes:
>>All I expect from a compiler is to produce the most efficient code it can,
>>with the least amount of hassle.  Lets face it, most compilers do a more than
>>reasonable job of producing efficient code for most applications.  Ever use
>>GCC?
> 
> How can you tell, when you don't even know what code it generates?
> I suppose you've been listening to "people_who_know" who says so.

But any compiler generates the most efficient code that it can, by 
definition. If it doesn't generate more efficient code, that's because
it can't.

Roger Ivie
ivie@cc.usu.edu
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:12688 comp.lang.misc:2734
From: rh@smds.com (Richard Harter)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: Indentation
Date: 18 Aug 92 06:51:10 GMT
Reply-To: rh@ishmael.UUCP (Richard Harter)
Organization: Software Maintenance & Development Systems, Inc.

In article <7050@charon.cwi.nl> guido@cwi.nl (Guido van Rossum) writes:
>rh@smds.com (Richard Harter) writes:

>>If my understanding is correct the off-side rule is not at all the same
>>as using indentation as the loop/if scope indicator.  The off-side rule
>>really controls the circumstances for continuing a statement from one
>>line to the next.

>Oops, I don't know about the "off-side" rule.  Would you (or anyone)
>care to explain it, preferably with examples?  (I'm afraid I'll have
>to admit I've never really studied functional languages...)

I'm not really the right person to ask, so this explanation may be
a trifle muddled.  This is just my impression.  What the off-side rule
says is that one coordinate indentation and operators to continue a
statement from one line to the next.  Thus (in imperative terms)

	a = b + long_expression
	      + another_long_expression
	      + still_another_long_expression

This makes sense, apparently, in functional languages where statements
can be very long.  Indentation for scope of flow control is irrelevant
in pure functional languages, because pure functional languages do not
have flow control.  I do follow comp.lang.functional and they have had
some heated debates about the off-side rule.

Indentation for scope of flow control in imperative languages is a horse
of a different color.  My experience with languages which use indentation
for scope of flow control is that there is a conditioned reflex to unlearn.
One is so used to automatically putting in delimiters along with the
indentation that the code "doesn't feel right".  For most people it
doesn't take very long to get used to.

There is an interesting human factors point.  Most languages offer "too
many choices".  That is, one has wide latitude in making "irrelevant"
decisions about formatting, naming convention rules, etc.  Most of
these decisions don't matter very much as long as the style is consistent.
Experienced programmers tend to work out fixed styles which they use as
a matter of course -- this eliminates irrelevant decisions.  These
reflex formatting decisions become intellectual baggage when they are
carried over to other lanugages where they are not appropriate.

One can argue that this freedom of decision is actually undesirable,
that a language which eliminates irrelevant decisions is better.
-- 
Richard Harter: SMDS Inc.  Net address: rh@smds.com Phone: 508-369-7398 
US Mail: SMDS Inc., PO Box 555, Concord MA 01742.    Fax: 508-369-8272
In the fields of Hell where the grass grows high
Are the graves of dreams allowed to die.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: dylan@ibmpcug.co.uk (Matthew Farwell)
Subject: Re: Computers killing people?  (WAS Re: 9 track data storage???)
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 08:24:03 GMT

In article <1400@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca> oliver@cs.uwindsor.ca (Timothy Oliver) writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.163016.11684@cbnews.cb.att.com> lbd@cbnews.cb.att.com (linda.b.dunlap) writes:
>>I remember hearing a rumor that printers sent to Iraq were programmed to
>>upload (something) into radar installations to give erroneous data.
>>First, is it possible?  Second, anyone else heard such a thing?
>
>No, it is NOT possible.  There are not data lines that go FROM the
>printer TO the computer. The only line that go to the computer 
>are status lines (in a PARELLEL port).

Assuming of course, that the printer is on the end of a parallel port.
It could be on the end of an ethernet remember.

Dylan.
From: tdzubin@cue.bc.ca (Thomas Dzubin)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: You know you've been working with computers too long...
Date: 19 Aug 1992 23:37:32 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


When your computer system at work dies and the Field Circus person
has to call to get some parts flown in overnight, but then you realize
that you've probably got the necessary parts sitting in your closet at
home.
(BTW: These are old VAX systems...I don't want anyone saying that I
 have brand-new NeXT or Sun motherboards sitting in my closet)

PDP-11-weenie
Thomas Dzubin
tdzubin@cue.bc.ca
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: Colored Boxes .... useless.  was "Hacker Test"
Organization: The Cat Factory
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 01:01:05 GMT

In article <1992Aug10.183340.1@cc.curtin.edu.au> zcookbruc@cc.curtin.edu.au writes:

}(phone company) has charged the students (who have yet to go to
}court).  in an effort to cover their asses. My opinion is that
}they'd be better getting rid of the backdoor (It doesn't exist in
}later exchanges) and suing the company that put it there in the
}first place. 
}
}I'm not condoning phreaking, but it does seem silly that (phone
}company) is picking on 3 out of a probable several thousand, and
}not going to the source of the problem.

This is rather like a burglar saying "Why put me in jail?  There are
thousands of other burglars you haven't caught.  What you really need is
stronger locks.  You should sue the person who sold you the house for not
installing them."

Note that the truth or falsehood of these assertions is utterly irrelevant
to the case.  The burglar was caught breaking the law and should be
punished.  The fact that I can't afford to live in an impregnable fortress
doesn't give them the right to break in at will.

If I were the phone company, I'd close the back door _and_ prosecute the
kids to the limit of the law.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: george@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (George Nassas)
Subject: RCA VP3301 terminal
Summary: has anyone heard of an RCA VP3301?
Keywords: obsolete hardware
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 01:17:36 GMT

Hello,

I have a question for historical buffs. Has anyone heard of, or used, a
terminal called an RCA VP3301? I'm pretty sure it dates back to the early
eighties. The one I got came from an electronics flea market. Great little
terminal, seems to do color and maybe graphics but I have no idea what
control codes it takes 'cause it didn't come with docs. Is anyone out
there who might have owned such a beast, or better yet, a manual?

Please reply directly to me as I flake off in the summer and would
probably miss a net reply.

- George Nassas
  Laurentian University
From: ivie@cc.usu.edu (CP/M lives!)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: You know you've been hacking too long...
Date: 17 Aug 92 10:30:48 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <josef.714035254@uranium>, Josef Moellers <mollers.pad@sni.de> writes:
> In <1992Aug16.200331.58189@cc.usu.edu> ivie@cc.usu.edu (CP/M lives!) writes:
>>Another fun thing to do is look at a CRT or LED while eating crunchy stuff.
>>Or get things vibrating in front of a CRT; I whacked some tweezers like a
>>tuning fork and held them in from of a TV one day.
> The last is a very different phenomenon:
> Even TV screens have a less-than-infinite afterglow. So, when You move an
> object in front of a TV screen fast enough, it will be like using a
> stroboscope. You can try this just by moving Your fingers at arm length
> between the TV and Your eyes.

Ah, but the tweezers are much more interesting than my fingers...

Roger Ivie
ivie@cc.usu.edu
From: chapman@cs.cornell.edu (Richard Chapman)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Zuse Computers
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:52:22 GMT
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853

xexeo@dxlaa.cern.ch (Geraldo Xexeo) writes:


>Swiss German spoken TV (DSR) showed yesterday night a service about Konrad Zuse
>(or Conrad Zuze?) . He was the pionner of computing in Germany. The Z1 was
>a MECHANIC computer, able to do simple calculations, while the last
>Z was a REAL COMPUTER.


>Any of you  used or know were Zuse computers can be seen?

Or can anyone suggest a book that describes Zuse's work? Thanks,
Richard
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
From: smith@sctc.com (Rick Smith)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Organization: SCTC
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:08:50 GMT

peter@ferranti.com (Peter da Silva) responds to Charles Lasner's
continuing remarks on the intrinsic goodness of assembly language
programming and programmers:

>Oh, as for your comments about "c programmers" versus "assembly programmers".
>Anyone who knows only one programming language, or who identifies themselves
>as being a "language X" programmer, is a pretty sore programmer indeed.

The only person I'm personally acquainted with who tried to make a
_career_ out of assembly language programming is now unemployed. He
hasn't been able to find anyone within 100 miles who is willing to pay
him money to hack RSX/11. Professional experience in assembly language
programming isn't by itself a reliable measure of one's overall
capabilities as a programmer. It's certainly irrelevant to
employability.

On the other hand, a truly competent programmer must have the
knowledge and skill to use assembly language effectively when it's
called for.

Based on my own nontrivial amount of experience in assembly languages
and HLLs as well as computer architecture, I just don't see a profound
distinction between the inefficiencies of assembly languages and those
of higher level languages. There's a difference in degree, but not in
substance. In the end, everything maps to a sequence of logical
actions. The arbitrary mappings enforced by a particular instruction
set have no more mystic significance than the arbitrary mappings
enforced by a particular compiler. In other words, even assembly
language is an awkward, arbitrary, and relatively inefficient mapping
into what we really want the underlying logic circuitry to do. 

To exalt assembly language over HLLs is the same as asserting that
that instruction set designers do a better job than compiler writers.
Well, maybe they do, but their job is much easier, too.

Rick.
smith@sctc.com        arden hills, minnesota

ps I'm dropping out of this thread now, since I'll be on vacation
   for the next week or so. Have fun, guys.
From: scjones@thor.sdrc.com (Larry Jones)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Computers killing people?  (WAS Re: 9 track data storage???)
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:55:55 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.105729.3084@tigger.jvnc.net>, keithd@bigguy.timeplex.com (Keith Dickinson) writes:
> Actualy, on the PC the 8-bit data lines are BI-DIRECTIONAL, indicating that
> if the PC would read the data lines, then you could indeed back-feed data.
> There are some PostScript printers that use this function.

No, no, no, no, NO!  For the gazillionth time, the data lines on the
genuine IBM PC Printer Adapter are UNIDIRECTIONAL!  Yes, the PIO chip
is perfectly capable of bidirectional operation, but the direction lead
is hardwired for output only.  The only inputs are the status lines for
things like out-of-paper.  Utilities that allow file transfer across
parallel ports cross connect some of the data lines with some of the
status lines to permit bi-directional transfer, typically four bits at
a time.  Just another misfeature from your friends in Boca Raton.
----
Larry Jones, SDRC, 2000 Eastman Dr., Milford, OH  45150-2789  513-576-2070
Domain: lawrence.jones@sdrc.com               IBMMAIL: USSDR7DR at IBMMAIL
He piqued my curiosity. -- Calvin
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: pt@geovision.gvc.com (Paul Tomblin)
Subject: Re: You know you've been hacking too long...
Reply-To: pt@geovision.gvc.com
Organization: Not officially GeoVision Systems Inc., Ottawa, Ontario
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 12:10:01 GMT

cline@cs.scarolina.edu (Ernest Cline) writes:
>The real test for leap years will be 2100 not 2000 since it will be the
>first in the Age of Computers in which the rule, if it is divisible by 4,
>it's a leap year will not work.

Yeah, I can hardly wait.  Somehow I doubt my code or I will last that long...

BTW Ernest, that's a seriously ugly signature you've got there.  Have you
seen what they have to say about it in alt.fan.warlord?
-- 
Paul Tomblin, pt@geovision.gvc.com or {uunet,revcan}!geovision!pt
(This is not an official opinion of GeoVision Systems Inc.)
"If you can read this, you're not looking through the Hubble Space Telescope"
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: ppetto@wariat.org (Peter J. Petto)
Subject: IBM 5100 "Portable"
Organization: Akademia Pana Kleksa, Public Access Uni* Site
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:35:04 GMT

Can anyone point me to references describing the IBM 5100 Portable
Computer's place in computing history?

(And I can't lose by asking: does anyone have a spare power supply
for one of these puppies?)

Thanks....I'll summarize all responses I receive for posting here.

---
Peter Petto          |       ppetto@wariat.org
Bay Village, Ohio    |    73125.617@compuserve.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
From: ecmtwhk@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Thomas Koenig)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 07:38:15 GMT
Followup-To: alt.religion.computers
 <NEERI.92Aug20113346@iis.ethz.ch> <1992Aug20.233059.9247@news.columbia.edu>
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:

>Moreover, there is far too much modeling of code generation based on a model
>using a stack.  While it is true that occasionally a stack structure is needed,
>it often isn't.  Perhaps statistically speaking most of the time, yet most
>code is generated (ab)using a stack.

From the release notes of ftn 3.4, running on an SGI under IRIX 4.0.5
(MIPS - architecture):

       5.  Known_Problems_and_Workarounds
[...]
	o Compiling old	Fortran	code (SCR 3526)
	  Fortran, by default, allocates local variables on the
	  stack	for faster execution speed.  These local automatic
		^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	  variables are	uninitialized, as opposed to being
	  initialized to zeros,	which occurs using the static
	  allocation of	older Fortran systems.	Also, the value	of
	  an automatic variable	is not retained	between	successive
	  calls	to a subroutine	as for a static	variable.
[...]

ABusing a stack?
-- 
Thomas Koenig, ecmtwhk@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz, ib09@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de
The joy of engineering is to find a straight line on a double logarithmic
diagram.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers