From: gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Subject: Re: Intellectuals and totalitarianism
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 20:59:50 GMT

ab> Alex Bunker
gs> Gary Strand

ab> [I]n general blue collar workers and lefty intellectuals belong to the 
ab> same political party and have the same voting habits. I am talking about 
ab> a global average here.

  You mean a Western European average. Strange how the voting habits and po-
  litical outlook of 250 million Americans counts much less than the same of
  ~300 million Europeans. Methinks you're stuck on the old pre-WWI European
  view of itself, ie, a shining beacon unto the world of groping-in-the-dark
  masses. Sorry, but that just isn't true any more.

gs> In any case, your average lefty intellectual is so far removed from basic
gs> theories on government power, economics, and monetary policies, that it's
gs> no wonder that wherever and whenever their ideas have been tried, (at best)
gs> the society as a whole has remained stuck, or has declined. I am including
gs> Sweden, Norway, Germany, France, and so on here too.

ab> HA HA HA HA HA AH A !!!!!!

ab> This is very funny. You just mentioned a set of countries EVERY one of
ab> which has a healthier economy than the US as well as being more socially
ab> advanced.

  Prove it. Show that these economies during the period from (say) 1950-today
  have been historically more healthy than the US' economy, controlling for
  non-economic factors, so that we can see whether or not your contention 
  that Eurosocialism is the wave of the present and the future. Also, your
  claims to a greater degree of "social advancement" sound remarkably hollow
  and biased. Where were fascism, Naziism, and Communism invented? Not in 
  the US, I can assure you. Also, which countries started WWI and WWII?

ab> how are these societies stuck or declining. AND THE USA IS NOT!?!?!?!?!

  The US is declining, as are all other countries, in direct proportion to 
  the amount of State control over the economy.

ab> These countries are kicking the US economic butt by government involvment
ab> in economic policy.

  I guess this explains why the socialists are getting kicked out, and those
  that remain are dropping their socialist ideals very quickly.

ab> US stype capitalism without a government industrial policy is the stuck
ab> declining failure. Luckily (for Americans) YOU are in the minority and
ab> the majority of americans realize this and are about to elect Bill Clin-
ab> ton as the next president who will invoke an industrial policy.

  If you think Bill Clinton can save the American economy, I've got a bridge
  and a set of crown jewels for sale. Indeed, there is an undercurrent of
  pseudo-guerilla thinking in that Clinton ought to be elected, so that the
  US will be driven into the ground faster, and then we can start doing it
  all right that much sooner.

ab> Well maybe thay wont and America will continue to be a proud but pathetic
ab> economic laughingstock naively convincing itself that it is the best
ab> country in the world just because the rest of the world lets you have
ab> your fun playing global bouncer!

  Ummm, I wonder what your parents and grandparents have to say about the US.
  I take your views as seriously as I take those of college-age Americans,
  which is to say that they "benefit" from having all of 5 years worth of
  memories, and an accompanying inability to understand history or the rea-
  sons why things are the way they are. You are the same way. It's really
  quite easy to become oh-so-stereotypically-European-snobbish towards the
  US, because you don't remember or understand the role the US has played
  since WWI in keeping Europe at least semi-stable and prosperous. 

ab> Your average Joe Bluecollar steelworker is a very sensible fellow and
ab> knows who's side he is on.

gs> It isn't on the side of the socialist intellectuals, I can tell you that.

ab> Last time I checked he is (In most countries)

  Again, your narrow view prevents you from understanding that when you say
  "most countries", you mean "most Western European countries".


--
Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,alt.activism,talk.politics.misc