HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: djconnel@leland.Stanford.EDU (Daniel Connelly)
Subject: World Championship Road -- Contest
Summary: contest to pick the winners -- Men's RR, Women's TTT
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 00:10:01 GMT


Well, there's less than a week to go until the World Championships
and I haven't yet seen any discussion here regarding potential
outcomes of that race.

In the spirit of Bruce Hildenbrand's Tour contest, I therefore propose
a contest to pick the winners of the world championship road events
this year.  Although the outcomes of one-day races are inherently more
random than three week stage races, the difficulty of the course
should bring the best riders to the front.

With the Olympic events withheld from the World Championships,
the only remaining road events of which I am aware are the
men's professional road race and the women's team time trial.

To enter the contest, predict the top ten finishers in the men's
professional road race and list them, one per line.  Next to the
placing from 1-10 and the name, you can optionally include the time
behind the winner.  Then leave a blank line and list the top 5
predicted finishing nations the women's team time trial with the
optionally predicted time behind the winner.

Names should be listed from first to last, although only the
last name is mandatory as long as it is unique.  Please
try to spell names correctly.

Even though times aren't used in the scoring algorithm described
below, if you do include them it may as well be in a standard format.
Use the following ( brackets indicate options ) :

[[hours:]minutes:]seconds[.fraction]

Sample equivalent times are therefore:
100
1:40
0:01:40.0

A sample pick would therefore be ( I don't even know if
the following are entered ) :

1	Greg LeMond	0
2	Andy Hampsten	0
3	Armstrong	0
4	Mike Engleman	5
5	Michael Carter	5
6	Julich		5
7	Nate Reiss	7
8	Davis Phinney	7
9	Allan Peiper	1:10
10	Sean Kelly	1:10

1	United States	0
2	Canada		0.1
3	Mexico		1:10
4	Cuba		2:00
5	Bermuda		2:30
	
(comments and stuff)

Please send them to me to the above listed address,
djconnel@leland.stanford.edu, mailing them by Friday.
After the weekend I will post all scores from entries
I receive.

Rankings will be tallied for each event plus for overall.

Scoring for the men's road race will be done by calculating
a score for each pick and adding the scores for all 10 picks.
The score for an individual pick will be as follows:

score(placing,pick) =
 (1000*2^(-(0.5*(min(placing,pick)-1)+abs(placing-pick))));

...rounded to the nearest integer, where "placing" is the final
position of the rider from one to the number of riders listed in the
newspaper and "pick" is the predicted position from one to ten.  This
scheme heavily weights picking the top 5 versus the second five, so
don't worry too much about correctly getting spots 6-10.

Scoring in the women's TTT will be done in a similar fashion,
except only the top 5 positions will be considered and the
multiplicative factor will be scaled to match the top score
achieved in men's race in consideration of overall rankings.

Dan

-- 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: warsa@carina.unm.edu (j warsa)
Subject: Re: Length of Races in the U.S.:  Too Short?
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 92 14:38:08 GMT
Organization: Universidad de Nuevo Mexico, Alburquerque
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.racing
Distribution: usa

ks@stat.tamu.edu (Kurt F. Sauer), in rec.bicycles.racing, writes: 
=> There are some items on the USCF Board of Directors agenda which are
=> quite interesting and which deal with the length of racing in the U.S.
=> 
=> I will extract from the agenda; I wonder what you (other racers) think.
=> Personally, I think that the rationale for longer races is quite correct;
=> a straw poll of my club and team agrees.
=> 
=> 	Part 3.  Upgrading by Performance.
=> 	...
=> 	[Added] (b) A qualifying race for upgrading is one of the following
=> 	races that is not a handicap, club, collegiate, or training race
=> 	and that is open only to riders of the applicant's category or
=> 	higher.
=> 	(1)  Individual road races at least 100km long for men or
=> 	70km long for women and minimum field size of 60 men or 25 women.
=> 	(2)  Criteriums at least 40km long for men or 32 km for women with
=> 	minimum field size of 60 men or 25 women.
=> 	(3)  Stage races at least two days long.  Points can be earned
=> 	both in the qualifying stages and for overall placing at the end.
=> 
=> 	Submitted by Legislation Committee.
=> 	Comment:  "This provides upgrades based on a point system similar
=> 	to the National Ranking System."
=> 
=> One question--a vexing one--is whether collegiate racing should ever be
=> allowed to factor into upgrade decisions.  While it is true that some
=> collegiate competition is difficult to compare directly to USCF compe-
=> tition, it's clear that some racing, such as Collegiate Nationals, is
=> a very competitive race.  Maybe it's because it is a stage race...
=> --
=> Kurt F. Sauer

As to the point regarding upgrading, I have always thought that ITT's should
be used for upgrade points for categories greater than cat 3. Does anyone
know why they are not (Les Earnest) ?  I can see a possible rationale in 
the case of beginning riders, where the upgrades based only on RR and crits 
ensure that they can ride in a pack before they upgrade. However, cat 2's 
and 3's should already be able to ride in a group, although this is not 
always the case. For these categories a result in an ITT shows good strength 
and ability, whereas points for crit results seem almost absurd since often
it's just a lottery. In fact, I know cat 3's who have upgraded because they
won or placed like crazy in crits, but once they upgrade can't even hang in 
a 60 mile RR.

Regarding collegiate competition, why not have the same criterion for upgrade,
that is, minimum distance with minimum number of riders of a given USCF 
category. For example, if a collegiate race is longer than 100 km (or
whatever) and there are 130 riders, 60 (or whatever) of whom are USCF cat 2's, 
then that race should be used for upgrade points. Granted that this is a
rather unlikely scenario, but maybe it happens at collegiate nationals.

-- 
jim warsa
albuquerque
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing,rec.bicycles
From: floydg@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Floyd Goodrich)
Subject: Re: World Championship Road -- Contest
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin Tx.
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:19:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.210859.3187@slc.com> marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie) writes:
  >Stewart Fleming (sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk) writes:
  >
  >> The World Championship road race is on a 21.8km circuit, beginning and
  >> ending in Benidorm.  5km into the circuit is the main climb,
  >> rising to 350m over 5km and then descending over the next 10.
  >> The remainder of the circuit is flat, with a slight climb towards the
  >> finish.
  >
  >> Course is 261km (12 laps).  My money is on Moreno Argentin.
  >
  >Is that Totally Lance Dude going to ride? Has he done a race of this length 
  >before?

In the Tour du Pont (not sure if it was this year), there was a 180 mile
stage.  I think Lance rode the TdP that year.



Floyd Goodrich
From: sjlt@leland.Stanford.EDU (Sean Lev-Tov)
Subject: World Championship
Summary: TV coverage ???
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 17:03:06 GMT

Will it be televised?  If so, when and on what channel?  Thanks.

Sean
From: truesdel@ics.uci.edu (R. Scott Truesdell)
Subject: Re: ESPN broadcasts of MTB races
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:28:54 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.racing

In article <1992Aug26.100731.8790@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com>,
caseb@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com wrote:
>
> In the July (I think) Norba News I saw a list of dates and times
> for broadcasts of the big mountain bike races of the season on ESPN.
> I have since lost that issue, but I wonder if someone
> could post the times and dates listed.


Sep 11    1:30 - 2:30 pm EDT   Jeep Finals, Durango, CO
Sep 18   12:00 - 1:00 am EDT   Grundig Finals, Vail, CO
 "   "    1:00 - 2:00 am EDT      "
Oct 2     1:00 - 2:00 am EDT   World Championships

  --scott
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: mprime@calcium.Berkeley.EDU (Michael B. Prime)
Subject: Re: Length of Races in the U.S.:  Too Short?
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 19:19:26 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.184852.6319@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:

>jim warsa says:
>
>>Regarding collegiate competition, why not have the same criterion for upgrade,
>>that is, minimum distance with minimum number of riders of a given USCF 
>>category. For example, if a collegiate race is longer than 100 km (or
>>whatever) and there are 130 riders, 60 (or whatever) of whom are USCF cat 2's,
>>then that race should be used for upgrade points. Granted that this is a
>>rather unlikely scenario, but maybe it happens at collegiate nationals.

Actually it is not that unlikely. Here in the West the collegiate A's have
a field limit of 80 and most of the road races are 65-85 miles long. The
fields are generally abotu 70% Cat 2's and 20% Cat 3's. Should be more than
sufficient for upgrading 3 to 2.
>
>Sounds like a good idea.  I'll modify the existing legislative proposal for
>variable-points upgrading to accomodate it.
>Les Earnest                                  Phone:  415 941-3984

A very good idea. Thanks Jim.

Mike

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing,rec.bicycles
From: djconnel@leland.Stanford.EDU (Daniel Connelly)
Subject: Re: World Championship Road -- Contest
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 18:06:15 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.141938.2503@oakhill.sps.mot.com> floydg@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Floyd Goodrich) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.210859.3187@slc.com> marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie) writes:
>  >Stewart Fleming (sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk) writes:
>  >> Course is 261km (12 laps).  My money is on Moreno Argentin.
>  >
>  >Is that Totally Lance Dude going to ride? Has he done a race of this length 
>
>In the Tour du Pont (not sure if it was this year), there was a 180 mile
>stage.  I think Lance rode the TdP that year.
>

You must have missed the previously posted results from Zurich:

Championship of Zurich (Switzerland, 240km)
1.  V Ekimov  6h 0m 1s
2.  L Armstrong  at 14s
3.  J Nevens  same time
4.  G Bontempi  at 34s
5.  B Leali  same time
6.  M Madiot  same time
7.  M Earley  same time
8.  L Jalabert  at 59s

Lance also was the last finisher in this years San Sabastion Classic
in Spain, over 20 minutes behind the winner Raul Alcala.  The race
experienced torrential rains and many riders retired.

Dan

-- 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: davis@lugg.utah.edu (Darrell R. Davis)
Subject: Re: How fast is fast enough???
Organization: College of Science, University of Utah
Date: 28 Aug 92 11:22:22


on Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:02:06 GMT,
colin@snaefell.tamu.edu (Colin Allen) said:
>> Path: fcom.cc.utah.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!news
>> In article <1992Aug27.220014.19462@chpc.utexas.edu>  
>> apas611@chpc.utexas.edu (David Boles) writes:
> I was wondering how fast people ride in USCF cat 3,4,(?)5
> races here in the U.S.  I know that if you can time trial
> 25 miles in 1 hr (I can't) that you can enter races and not
>> Actually, time trialling ability and road racing
>> ability aren't that tightly correlated.  Time trialling
>> requires the ability to hold a high steady pace for an
>> extended period.  Road racing requires the ability to
>> recover very quickly from intense efforts that exceed
>> what could be kept up over a longer period.  In a race last
>> weekend on a fairly flat course the speed fluctuated
>> between 18mph and 35mph for two hours.  (The average was
>> about 24.)  I'm a middle of the pack cat 3 rider.  The


Strong recreational riders who decide to try racing are usually
shocked and dismayed, at first, about how fast Cat 4's ride.  Most of
their problems are from the speed fluctuations and from learning to
corner and follow a wheel.  The ability to stay with the pack comes
quickly.

Training for recovery is the big change that has to be made to make
the transition from "rider" to "racer", but you still need some raw
power.  I would say that most Cat 3's should be able to ride a sub 60
minute 40 K TT.  Cat 2's should be able to make the 57' standard to
qualify for Nationals.  This would be for a flat course under
near-ideal conditions, hills and wind could make it tough to ride
these times.

Last night at our weekly criterium we averaged 27.5 mph for 30 miles,
this is pretty typical for this flat, open course.  This is for a pack
composed of 1,2,3's, probably more than 1/2 Cat 3's.  Only about 10
out of 40 were dropped from the main pack, but some were probably 2's.
The pace is largely driven by the 1-2's, but the 3's are active and
hanging in the there.


--------------------------------------------------------------
 
 Darrell R. Davis 
 Medicinal Chemistry 
 University of Utah 
  
--------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: sery@crunch.unm.edu (sery)
Subject: Re: El Paso Road Race and Criterium
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 16:15:11 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/lib/rn/organization
Distribution: usa

Marc San Soucie writes:
>sery (sery@crunch.unm.edu) writes:
>
>> 			El Paso Road Race, August 22
>
>Nice coverage, Paul. Call up VeloNews!

Thanks, I appreciate the compliment.

>By the way, which one's your team?

I ride for NM Velo Sport sponsored by Harvard Bike House-BR Gordon Construction.

Paul Sery
Albuquerque, NM
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: cornering tactic -legal or not?
From: <PWRIGHT@MIAMIU.BITNET>
Date: Monday, 31 Aug 1992 15:38:44 EDT
Organization: Miami University - Academic Computer Service

I have not heard of any rule governing the line that a rider must take through
a turn. As long as you do not intentionally take a line that would cause others
to crash you should be lauded on you ability to get through the corner faster
than the others. I imagine the others were just angry because they had not
thought to try it themselves. On the other hand, a gentleman in the cat 3/4
race that I was in this past weekend in Lima, OH had a rather illegal approach
in taking a corner on one of the back, hidden sections of the criterium course.
He cut through the grass basically drawing the hypotenuse of a 90 degree turn.
This is poor sportsmanship. Several riders complained, but the rider had not
placed anyway. Mostly he has cast a bad light on his team. Anyway, keep up the
good work. Just about anyone can hammer in a straight line, but to see a
skilled bike-handler is an inspiration.
 
 
                                       Paul
 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Results: Blue Care Network Tour de Michigan Crit Series
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 04:34:19 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

This guy, Dave McCook, is looking awfully good. If he
continues in the same manner I don't doubt that he'll
wind up in Europe racing with the big guys.

He looked real good at all of the races in the SF
bay area last month.
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Cornering tactic- legal or not ?
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:28:51 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Aug31.202919.5656@igs.com> tom@igs.com (Tom Nelson) writes:
>
>What if taking the inside going into the corner forced him wide
>coming out and caused the others to have to brake to keep from
>getting cut off? (Something I did earlier this season).

Overtaking riders must stay clear. Winning is everything
unless you use illegal means to achieve it. In other words,
you can't use a club, nor stick your pump in the other guys
spokes. :-)
From: tom@igs.com (Tom Nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: '93 Masters Natz
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:35:46 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: IGS, Inc.

I've heard that Masters Nationals are in St. Louis next year.
Does anyone have more detailed information on this, such as
what type of courses will be used?

-Tom

-- 
Tom Nelson
IGS, Inc., Boulder, CO
tom@igs.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: les@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Les Earnest)
Subject: Re: Length of Races in the U.S.:  Too Short?
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 20:17:11 GMT

Regarding proposed USCF legislation on rider category upgrading,
Kurt Sauer sez:
>One question--a vexing one--is whether collegiate racing should ever be
>allowed to factor into upgrade decisions.  While it is true that some
>collegiate competition is difficult to compare directly to USCF compe-
>tition, it's clear that some racing, such as Collegiate Nationals, is
>a very competitive race.  Maybe it's because it is a stage race...

Collegiate racing already may be used to qualify for upgrading by
experience.  If legislative proposal B31c is adopted, upgrading by
experience may be used to get as high as men's Cat. 2.

I see no practical way to base performance upgrading on collegiate
race results as long as those races use a different category system.
In a memo earlier this year, I tried to talk the collegiate committee
into using USCF categories in their races but got no positive
feedback.  This issue will be discussed further at the USCF meetings
in Washington DC, September 24-27.

--
Les Earnest                                  Phone:  415 941-3984
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.racing:53 rec.bicycles:22011
From: sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk (Stewart Fleming)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: World Championship Road -- Contest
Date: 1 Sep 92 08:30:48 GMT
Reply-To: sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk
Organization: Dept. Of Computing and Electrical Engineering, Heriot-Watt University, Edinburgh


The World Championship road race is on a 21.8km circuit, beginning and
ending in Benidorm.  5km into the circuit is the main climb,
rising to 350m over 5km and then descending over the next 10.
The remainder of the circuit is flat, with a slight climb towards the
finish.

Course is 261km (12 laps).  My money is on Moreno Argentin.

STF
--
sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk                        ...uknet!cs.hw.ac.uk!sfleming
"I got confused about the term 'anaerobic' and tried
   sprinting whilst holding my breath."  -diary of a wannabe racer
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: TIOOYK
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:32:11 GMT
Distribution: rec.bicycles.racing
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

Would someone tell me what TIOOYK means?
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: tanner@sundog.nas.nasa.gov (Leigh Ann Tanner)
Subject: Re: Cornering tactic- legal or not ?
Organization: Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation Facility NASA
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 16:08:39 GMT
Reply-To: tanner@sundog.nas.nasa.gov (Leigh Ann Tanner)
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Aug31.202919.5656@igs.com>, tom@igs.com (Tom Nelson) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug31.193601.10064@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) writes:
|> >jr29@prism.gatech.EDU (ROSS,JOHN B) writes:
|> >: I made the corner ahead of them, braked briefly, and sprinted
|> >: out, ahead of eveyone.
|> >: 
|> >: Would anyone who knows care to comment on
|> >: the legality or advisibility of my tactic ?
|> >
|> >Your move was completely legal, and appropriate.  The other riders
|> >should have expected someone to try it.
|> >
|> >Harry Phinney   harry@hp-pcd.cv.hp.com
|> 
|> What if taking the inside going into the corner forced him wide
|> coming out and caused the others to have to brake to keep from
|> getting cut off? (Something I did earlier this season).
|> 
That's racing!!

Leigh Ann

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Leigh Ann Tanner                        Parallel Systems Support
NASA Ames Research Center M/S 258-6     Moffett Field, CA  94035-1000
tanner@sundog.nas.nasa.gov              (415) 604-4306
   __o            __o            __o            __o            __o
 _`\<,_         _`\<,_         _`\<,_         _`\<,_         _`\<,_
(_)/ (_)       (_)/ (_)       (_)/ (_)       (_)/ (_)       (_)/ (_)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: ams@watson.ibm.com (Aaron Shtromas)
Subject: Missing subject header
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1992 11:06:52 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center


-- 
>P.S. Since Dhaenens and Dirk DeWolf were 1 and 2 and the World Championship,
>I don't do predictions anymore. Oh, well, why not: Steven Rooks.

that's right, the dutch and belgians had an awful year so far and are starving
for a victory - perhaps, van hooydonk. on the other hand, it may be too hot
for him. a dark horse got to be konyshev (if he rides this year) - he already 
was third once, getting better every year and will probably have good support.
i'm curious - ekimov and zhdanov recently have been listed as estonian riders
rather than russian. i suspect, they will still give old dimitry a hand.

aaron
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: tohall@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Dave Hall (Sverdrup))
Subject: Lance A. Wins Trittico Veneto (Details Please?)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date:  2 Sep 1992 09:02 EST  


    Our local newspaper had a small blurb this morning, stating that
Lance Armstrong had won the Trittico Veneto Road Race in Marostica,
Italy. The race was 114 miles in 4:21, average speed of 26.224 MPH 
(sounds hilly!).

     Does anyone out there have more details? Any other big names entered?
What other teams showed up? Was it hot/cold/wet weather? How about info
on the course (any mountains)? Any data on the history of the race would
be welcome too (has anyone famous won in the past)?


    Mid-western American newspapers do a lousy job of reporting on the
European cycling scene, in general.


                    Thanx in advance!


                           Dave H.

Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.racing:78 rec.bicycles:22156
From: steve@enterprise.den.mmc.com (Steve Gilbert)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: World Championship Road -- Contest
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:29:44 GMT
Organization: Martin Marietta

In article <1992Sep3.102731.3236@cs.hw.ac.uk>, sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk (Stewart Fleming) writes:
|> 
|> In article <1992Sep2.180615.2884@leland.Stanford.EDU>, djconnel@leland.Stanford.EDU (Daniel Connelly) writes:
|> 
|> This is why I don't think Miguel will win.  It's going to be hot in Spain,
|> and a lot of riders go faster in good weather than In-du-rain.
I remember how it was feared that when the Worlds came here to Colorado that it
would also be hot.  The worry was that with the combination of heat, altitude,
and low humidity that the racers might have trouble replacing lost fluids. 
Anyone that was out there that day can attest to the fact that there was no
problem with fluids and heat.  The fluids were supplied through the skin from the
cloud bank that hung over the course, and the heat was dissipated by same liquid
sunshine, as well as chilly temps ( 60's if I remember correctly ).  Basically it
was miserably cold and rainy.  So who knows, if it rains in Spain it might really
be In-du-rain.
--
/\                         Steve Gilbert
  \                        Martin Marietta Astronautics, Denver
   \  /\    o_ ----'___,   steve@xanadu.den.mmc.com
    \/  \___O<O______
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing