From: riggs@descartes.tec.army.mil (Bill Riggs)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,talk.politics.misc,talk.religion.misc,misc.legal
Subject: Re: Supreme Court Upholds Freedom of Speech
Date: 27 Jan 93 02:00:03 GMT
Followup-To: talk.abortion,talk.politics.misc,talk.religion.misc,misc.legal
Organization: LNK Corporation, Riverdale, MD

In article <14042@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>In article <1726@tecsun1.tec.army.mil>, riggs@descartes.tec.army.mil (Bill Riggs) writes:
>> In article <1993Jan18.165516.5248@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
>> >As an aside, if so many of the right wing weren't adamantly opposed to
>> >birth control, too, this debate would be much less important.  Because
>> >there is a *direct* inverse correlation between the availability of
>> >birth control and the abortion rate.
>> 
>> 	The only group of which I am aware that opposes contraception is
>> the Roman Catholic Church. This hardly fits my definition, or that of most
>> clear thinking people of "right wing". (For those of the reading population
>> who lack Mr. Nieporent's firm grasp of the obvious, there are many practicing
>> Catholics who are hardly right wing in their political orientation, and 
>> conversely, there are lots of other religious and areligious groups - I mean
>> hard core atheists - who meet virtually all the criteria associated with
>> the "right wing" where political, economic, and even social issues are
>> concerned). Only extremists believe there is no middle ground between the 
>> legal and sanctioned use of contraceptives and handing out rubbers to high 
>> school students, free of charge. I know of lots of Protestants who disagree
>> with premarital sex, but I have yet to meet the Protestant who believes
>> that contraception is wrong within the bonds of matrimony. How does Nieporent's
>> "direct inverse correlation" track across various ethnic and religious groups,
>> anyway ?
>> 
>> Bill R.
>
>Actually, I've met *a few* Protestants who believe that contraception
>is wrong within the bonds of matrimony.  (Two children, 10 months
>apart, seemed to have caused a reappraisal of this position for one
>couple, however -- she got her tubes tied.)

	Well, we're still not anywhere near to proving out David's
"direct inverse correlation". Clayton apparently knows one Prostestant
couple that felt led (by scripture, presumably) not to practice
birth control, found out that it didn't work out, and ended up practicing
a more extreme form of birth control in the end. I don't know of any
religious group that bans vasectomy - although not being Catholic, I
really don't know what the official line of Mother Church is after all.

>
>This Sunday, I had occasion to speak to the director of the Pregnancy
>Counselling Center, a pro-life group here in Sonoma County.  I was
>curious where she stood on birth control, because what HER PARTICULAR
>pro-life group does seems perfectly moral to me -- they assist 
>women who are unwilling to have an abortion through the difficult
>task of pregnancy, childbirth, and adoption.  They are not a political
>advocacy group.  (Yet pressure was put on Pacific Bell to remove the
>heading "Abortion Alternatives" from the Yellow Pages, so as to 
>remove her group.  I guess the pro-choicers are afraid that someone
>might not make the RIGHT choice about a pregnancy, if they were aware
>that there were voluntary alternatives to abortion.)
>
>I asked her about birth control, both in the context of unwed
>mothers, and a married couple.  Her answers were so equivocal and
>carefully worded that I found myself suspicious that she was
>hiding some sort of opposition to birth control as well.

	Honestly, what does this have to do with the ethical and
theological position of Protestant churches with respect to birth
control. If the director of the Pregnancy Counselling Center were 
of Catholic heritage, it stands to reason that she would answer 
questions about birth control in an equivocal and carefully worded
manner. Even if not a Catholic, I suspect that the mission of
her center causes the people working there to have a certain
bias in favor of having kids.

>
>A very unnerving experience.

	
	Well, some of us have stronger nerves than others. I often
wonder whether the nice weather in California makes people relaxed,
or paranoid. Maybe both !!  :)



Bill R.

--

"When up a dangerous faction starts,         "My opinions do not represent
With wrath and vengeance in their hearts;     those of my employer or
By solemn League and Cov'nant bound,          any government agency."
To ruin, slaughter, and confound;             - Bill Riggs (1992)
To turn religion to a fable,
And turn the Government to a Babel;
Pervert the law, disgrace the gown,
Corrupt the senate, rob the crown;
To sacrifice old England's glory,
And make her infamous in story.
When such a tempest shook the land,
How could unguarded virtue stand ?"
- Jonathan Swift (1732)