From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: Perot ?
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 06:16:03 GMT

das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
: The may be 'created equal', but their actions do not show that.  You cannot

They are born with basic human rights, and they should die with them,
they should NEVER be taken for a person's actions.

: tell me that the best way to prevent crime is to be SO SO nice to them in
:prison that they get all cozy inside and forget that they are a public menace?

Obviously not:  However, no matter their treatment, their human rights
should never be violated.  That's why so many people are so quick to
jump down Japan's throat with a machete.

:Why should I, as a taxpayer, allow my taxdollars go to treat convicted rapists
: , murderers, and drug dealers 'well'?  Do you realize what you are saying? I
: am all for my a nice guy - but I'm _not_ going to pull some Jesus crap
: and 'turn the other cheek' after getting hit in one cheek by a tire iron
: during a mugging.  Would you?

This isn't about that:  It's about giving people their basic human
rights.  Ask Amnesty International.  There are violations all over the
world, and it's a travesty.  People, no matter what they do, deserve
better than the treatment offered by Japan.

: True. One could interpret as meaning that 95% of all people determined
: by a Grand Jury as warranting a trial were conveivted of their crime,
: or that 95% of all crimes were successfully prosecuted.  I took the 95%
: figure as generically 'tough on crime'.

If you're hit with something you didn't do, there's a 95% chance
you'll go to jail for it.  And sit in a room no wider than your
armspan and 4-6 feet deep.  And never be allowed to stand.  Sitting
with your legs crossed, or kneeling, to lie down is prohibited.

Do you see what I mean.  People are people.  People do not deserve to
be treated like animals.  Hell, animals don't deserve to be treated
like animals.

: Don't think now that I'm for convicting innocents...heh heh, of course not!

I know that.

: I advocate cleaning up the judical system to stop fooling around
: with the guilty and move on.  

But how does one insure guilt?  And if one is wrong, it would be wrong
to violate that person's human rights, guilty or not.  All the more
travesty if he's innocent.  See the point?  One can never be POSITIVE
of guilt.  Never.  You can see the crime yourself, go and testify, and
they could convict.  But the judge would never be SURE.  Because you
could lie your fool head off and get away with it, getting an innocent
person convicted.

It's a long shot, but it could happen.  And the fact that it could
means that you have to treat them all as if they were people.  Just
people.  They've been accused and convicted of doing something bad.
But that doesn't give you the right to kick them and beat them and
torture them and violate everything the founding fathers held dear:
freedom and human rights.

: Aren't we beyond that 'turn the other cheek' crap of the 1st century? 

Life inprisonment isn't turning the other cheek.  It's also not
murder.  The death penalty is.

: Strong measures must be taken to curb strong crimes.  It is all a
: matter of economics in a way, if I may take an extreme example:  would it
: be better to convict an occaisional inncocent of mass murder, or be
: so lenient in prosecuting mass murderers that some go free to murder some mor
: Depends on how you look at thing, I suppose.

I can answer now.  Rather they be let free than to murder an innocent man.

: I'd rather an alternative to the death penalty.  Unfortunately, it is the
: best deterrance to murder.  Or would be, if it was actually carried out more
: than once in a blue moon.         

Cutting off the hand that offends you will probably have a better
result.  But that doesn't make it right.

That's all I'm trying to say.  I'm not saying that it doesn't work.
I'm saying its immoral and it's not right.

Greg

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