HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Doing something for moi
Date: 3 Sep 92 00:16:53 GMT
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

In article <1992Sep1.125823.1@fnalf.fnal.gov>, holzman@fnalf.fnal.gov (Daniel
B. Holzman) writes:
>In article <krikket.6813@meltdown.chi.il.us>, krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us 
>(D. 'krikket' Krick) writes:
>> I've always had an addiction to relationships and love.  I've always
>> *NEEDED*
>> someone else to be there for me.  I still do.  I don't know how to stand on
>> my own two feet without that other person.  I still cry over some of the
>> past relationships I've been in.  Maria, who I bump into occasionally at SF
>> Conventions is always enough to cause a mood reversal.  And then there is
>> the person whom I don't even know if I'm still married to (Teri).  Dan,
>> since you performed the wedding, any comments?
>
>Legally speaking, you're probably not married, but I need more data from you
>to know.
>
>Socially speaking, that's a question you and Terri need to answer for
>yourselves.

Legally speaking, I know we aren't married.  Aside from her not being old
enough for it to be recognized in this state, we didn't fill out the legal
paperword required within the 30 days of the ceremony because we were unable to
contact each other because of her parents...

Socially speaking, who the hell knows.  I can't even rish a call over to her
place.  I know I want to be, but I don't know and can't know what her current
opnions are...

Krikket               ! krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us ! USnail:3 Danada Square E.
a.k.a Doug Krick      ! Team Star Charter Member   !        Suite 246
Data ph# 708/665-9732 ! #include<std.disclaimers>  !        Wheaton, Il 60187
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Just another commentary on the sad state of affairs on our nation today.
From: sandro@asylum.UUCP (Sandro Wallach)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Shields UP, Mr. Worf!
Date: 28 Aug 92 00:13:52 GMT

*** SPOILER: IRRATIONAL BUT NECESSARY WOMEN HATING ***

Someone writes:

>I'm scared and I hurt and I hate women so much for manipulating me and
>hurting me and then laughing at me while I bleed. 

Me too.


>I hate women with their smugness and "I can screw any man I want"
>attitudes and "you're not tall enough/rich enough/classy enough"
>bullshit.

I hate women with their fake "you're not good enough" and fake "you're
so wonderful" attitudes, back and forth, when they feel like confusing
and hurting me.  I hate women who think I owe them respect, affection,
and support just because they are women.  I hate women who are immune
from my anger because they are women, and especially because they are
my sister or mother.


>People are selfish cold jerks who only care about themselves.  I think I'll
>retire from the human race.

I don't blame you.



I could write some linguistic asbestos, but fuck it.

	-- sandro  (sandro@ELF.com)




Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: scott_silverstein@yccatsmtp.ycc.yale.edu (Scot Silverstein)
Subject: How to re-establish communication?
Followup-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Organization: Yale University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 12:47:28 GMT

Well, my friend with whom I lost my temper (before understanding more
about Survivors and reading "The Courage TO Heal") still refuses
communication.  Even after I gave her a letter describing how with
my new insights, what happened would not have happened and that I'd like
to start talking agin, (as a supportive friend.)

My comments hit her pretty hard.  She associates with anothre woman, a
divorced and (to my best knowledge) non-survivor who I believe is
oblivious to my friend's problem.  She is acting to fuel the fires of
resentment, I believe (probably woul dnot do so if she understood the
background, but I promised my friend I'd never repeat the story to her
friends.)

SHe is in therapy, for a few months I belive, but commented several times
how
she didn't think her therapist was very good, and doesn't like or trust
doctors in general.

Comments or suggestions, anyone?  I still would like to try to clear up
the chaos and snatch Victory from the jaws of defeat, approaching the
friendship from a different paradigm.
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Adults saying NO
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 22:31:06 GMT

Heart Dancer (barbaraj@csc.ti.com) wrote:

: What's important is trust.  In the case of sexual activity, in my
: point of view, you don't ask just once, and assume that the survivor
: will let you know if things aren't okay.  Remember that most of us
: were restrained in some way from making any noise while we were being
: sexually abused.  Pay close attention to the survivor's responses, and
: keep asking for feedback.

You especially have to watch out for the "people pleaser" type of abused
adult.  He or she will tell you repeatedly that it's OK, that they want
what you want, etc. - then deny it afterwards; "that's *not* what I
wanted!"  Even in this circumstance, "yes" doesn't mean "yes".  I have had
one of these types recently come my way and do this to me.  My problem
was, I let my heart get involved with her. :(

And no, I *didn't* sleep with her.

Sometimes the survivor is so wrapped up in themselves (doing what you want
to get what they want can be a form of selfishness, too) that they feel
they can't communicate with you openly and honestly - regardless of the
cost.  Either way.  So they keep their mouths shut until it's too late -
then they blame you.  Result: no win for either person, no communication,
no nada.
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
From: v130py5w@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Renee M Sparling)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Too Scared to Live, Too Chicken to Die
Date: 4 Sep 92 16:09:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

>Ah, well, that's the thing, isn't it?  My life is a wreck, I'm alone, and
>I can't stop crying.  What's left?

There's me, you can write, talk, babble, YELL, and cry to me all you want.
I'll listen and offer advice if i can, and if ya want. I can relate to your
subject statement because i've made it many times myself...

>- Mr. Alone

try to remember that your not alone....we're all here for you..

A million E*hugs for you!!!!

Renee
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1159@twwells.com (Kristian)
Subject: Memories Made Up Or Real?
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 18:17:57 GMT

I have been struggling a lot lately with the issue of the reality
and accuracy of my memories of sexual abuse.  I just had to share
with others who may be  going  through  this  same process that I
found  a  lot  of  help  in    Chapter  Nine  p160-174  of  Renee
Frederickson's _Repressed Memories :  a journey  to recovery from
sexual abuse_. 

It reinforced a lot of what my therapist has been saying.  

If you have a need to, check it out.

Strength, joy, happiness and caring to all!

"Kristian"



--
To use this service, send EMAIL to:
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From: margog@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Margo Garcia)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: re: sexual addiction
Date: 31 Aug 92 16:39:23 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

I agree with the last writer that we are talking about 2 differnt things.  It
seems to me that he is addcited to love:  the exhilaration of "being in
love".  What I referring to is the uncontrollable addiction to sex, with
accompanying anti-social overtones.  I think these two things are very
different, and unfortunately, I was not very clear in my original post. Sorry
for the seeming accusations.

Margo
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: larry@bradley.bradley.edu (L. D. Stratton)
Subject: Re: Am I alone????
Organization: Bradley University
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 21:33:18 GMT

In <1992Aug25.143826.2022@wkuvx1.bitnet> beelewm@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:
>I would just like to know if others {male} have been sexually abused by thear 
>fathers.  I would just like to know I am not alone in this...
>Catch 22
  
   Try on almost 11 years of continuous abuse.  You are not alone, guy.

   If you want to, you can e-mail me at:  larry@bradley.bradley.edu

   Hugs if you need them,
         ld
From: cloister@milton.u.washington.edu (cloister bell)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: posts of hate
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:06:37 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

anon-1186@twwells.com (Lavender) writes:


>I am concerned that there was so much furror over posts about hating women!
> 
>This to me seems like a normal reaction in this group and I for one
>was not upset by them and I am very much a woman.

>I would also expect to have some folk express their hatered to men in
>a very general and all encompassing statement.

>I do not feel that these statements are to be supressed but rather that some 
>of us need to be a bit more accepting of them.  If this is not possible in 
>this group where is it possible for someone to express their hate?

you are right.  if we were all healed, then i think we could do this better.
but for a lot of people on asar, hate and anger and any other strong emotions
are very scary.  for those that grew up around adults who had a lot of anger
and expressed it intensely, posts like woman-hater's probably poked a few
nerves.  sure, we should all be able to rationally accept statements like that
and realize that they don't attack us directly as individuals.  but not all of
us can do that yet.  a lot of us still feel very threatened by *any* show of
hate or anger.
-- 
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
|tactical nuclear sdi stealth nsafood signature.  | cloister@u.washington.edu |
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Survivor in denial?
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 01:23:12 GMT

Doug Sojourner (doug@cdc.hp.com) wrote:

: I think that on this one, I agree with Heart Dancer.  The point is
: that as victims we were not permited our boundaries, and to perpetuate
: that can perpetuate the "victim-ness".  Also, in my recollection, this
: particular survivor already allowed "person B" to reply (though by
: note, and not face-to-face).

Because you were not permitted your boundaries at some time in the past,
does that give you the right to hurt people by pushing your boundaries on
others with no warning or discussion?  Permitting or not permitting boundaries
is not the issue - deliberately hurting others so you can defend your
"boundaries" is.

Let me give you an example - suppose I am out on a date, and my date starts
to make unwelcome advances unexpectedly.  Now, *I* might have set my
personal boundaries such that I don't want to make the decision of whether
or not to advance into the sexual arena with this person.  So, what do I do?

1) I can (like the woman in Scot's life) tell the woman to get the hell
away from me, to leave me alone, and to not bother me.  According to you
and Heart Dancer, that's OK, right?  But is it?  Well, maybe, but it's
also rude and inconsiderate.  Certainly not the best way to win friends
and influence people.  The likely response from her would be either to
frigidly announce "take me home" or blast me, starting with "Well, FUCK YOU!!"

2) I can tell the woman that while in another context her advances might be
welcome, I'm unprepared to deal with them right now, and would she please stop?
I would then listen to her - perhaps she needs the emotional intimacy of just
being held - and doesn't know any other way to express that need other than
to make sexual advances.  So, in that case, perhaps we could work out an
arrangement that would fulfill her needs yet respect my boundaries.  But
certainly the opportunity wouldn't be there if I responded as in 1).

In both cases, the woman has been put on notice.  Now, if she continues her
advances, I would be justified in being more assertive in expressing my
needs.

In case (1), I have alienated, pissed off, and hurt someone else unnecessarily.
In case (2), I have allowed her to (a) save face, (b) resolve the situation
gracefully, and (c) express her opinion, her *real* needs, and how she would
like to proceed.  Notice that I have not "given up my rights" or any such
blather by resolving the situation peacefully, without stomping on someone
else's feelings.
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
From: scgos@MVAX.CC.CONNCOLL.EDU (Sarah)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: hellos, etc.
Date: 1 Sep 92 15:36:01 GMT

Hi everyone!

        I wanted to say hello to everyone who has just started posting, 
and all the people who left for the summer before I started reading asar
in June, and are now coming back again. Welcome, or welcome back, or whatever!

        For anyone who doesn't know, I'm starting grad school at Penn 
State (I don't have an account here yet, so I'm still using my Connecticut 
address temporarily.) I've been here a little more than a week, trying to
get adjusted to a new place. Not surprisingly, I've been extremely busy
and stressed, between getting my class schedule straightened out, moving in,
finding all the important buildings... Not to mention a bit of culture shock:
my undergrad school has about 1600 people, but Penn State has 40,000. Eeek!!
        The hardest part (or one of them, anyway) is that I left all my
"safe" people and places behind. I feel uprooted in a lot of ways. Anything
abuse-related has been put on hold as much as possible while I get adjusted.
Except in my dreams. I woke up extremely upset this morning, and I can't
remember why. Sigh. 

	Well, I don't really have anything to say. I just wanted to
poke my head in and say hello. 

Sarah
From: asd@ecl.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: <None>
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:43:06 EDT
Organization: Engineering Computer Lab, Pennsylvania State University

8
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Sherri)
Subject: Re: what does **spoilers** mean
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 22:20:09 GMT


the ***SPOILERS*** headings serve as general warnings that the posts
may be more disturbing than most of the posts here.  These were originally
developed as a way to let people know when you were going to talk about
some of the graphic details of your abuse history.  It can be important
to talk about things in the way they really happened, not just 'I was
raped' but really telling what you remembered and what your impressions
were as a child.  Many of us, maybe most of us, have times where we
get very disturbed by reading such posts, so disturbed that it distracts
us from our own healing or gets us too upset to do what we need to do
at the time, let alone post a helpful response.  Some sort of indication
of the content of possibly disturbing messages like this are usually
appreciated.

I personally really dislike the term ***spoilers***, I imagine I could 
replace it with other clear messages.  Oh, and it helps to put a ^L
after your spoiler so people can hit 'n' to skip the message.

Now spoilers are used for more sorts of posts.  It can get to be a sensitive
issue, because of lot of people have felt blamed for upsetting people
when they posted things they genuinely felt they needed to say.  These
are generally posts responding to other people on the newsgroup.  It can
be very difficult for a lot of us to see people within the group getting
angry with each other.  But if a post really makes someone angry, that person
will often feel a need to speak out about it.  

Anyway, that's a generaly explanation.  I think the policy is something
we need to review, because I think that the ambience here can radically
change so quickly that people need more warning particularly if they are
in a difficult place in their lives.  

Take care, 

Sherri



Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: Gavin.Flower@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Gavin Flower)
Subject: Re: Shields UP, Mr. Worf!
Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., Victoria Uni. of Wellington, New Zealand.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 11:07:47 GMT

In article <392@asylum.UUCP> sandro@asylum.UUCP (Sandro Wallach) writes:
>*** SPOILER: IRRATIONAL BUT NECESSARY WOMEN HATING ***
>
>Someone writes:
>
>>I'm scared and I hurt and I hate women so much for manipulating me and
>>hurting me and then laughing at me while I bleed. 
>
>Me too.


I know of several women, whom I can trust to be very supportive.  The
very special woman I'm courting is one.  I've been in contact by email
with several, though that wasn't the (conscious) motivation to
initiate email contact - I believe they've also gained something.

Almost all the women, I've tried to get emotionally involved with, have
been neutral to positive towards me.  So maybe, you just need to be
more careful in selecting women to get to know beyond the superficial
social stage.

For me, at least, I believe it is best to get to know a woman as a
friend first, then to learn to exchange affection with her (if the
appropiate non-verbal signals are there & you want to), only later
considering going any further.  However, my objectives may be quite
different from yours.  This is theory, how far I've actually followed
it, I'm not really sure... Somewhere along the line, it is a good idea
to establish that you can work together on practical things and be
able to handle conflicts - while maintaining mutual respect (assuming
that you are looking for a potential spouse).

>
>
>>I hate women with their smugness and "I can screw any man I want"
>>attitudes and "you're not tall enough/rich enough/classy enough"
>>bullshit.
>
>I hate women with their fake "you're not good enough" and fake "you're
>so wonderful" attitudes, back and forth, when they feel like confusing
>and hurting me.  I hate women who think I owe them respect, affection,
>and support just because they are women.  I hate women who are immune
>from my anger because they are women, and especially because they are
>my sister or mother.

I've also met a few women like that.

Remember, a lot of females have been hurt, at the hands of men who have
been worse than simply disrespectful, or they simply don't know any
better.


>
>
>>People are selfish cold jerks who only care about themselves.  I think I'll
>>retire from the human race.

A significant minority, but still a minority - IMHO.

>
>I don't blame you.
>
>
>
>I could write some linguistic asbestos, but fuck it.
>
>	-- sandro  (sandro@ELF.com)


Gavin
-- 
Tomorrow's Society                              | flower_g@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
    Depends on                                   ----------------------------
Today's Children  - help us raise them properly! 
*******  These comments have no known correlation with dept. policy!  *******
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: uribe@jarthur.claremont.edu (Lydia Uribe)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Just Questions
Date: 3 Sep 92 21:38:16 GMT
Organization: Claremont Shelter for Maladjusted Singers

In article <1992Sep3.203309.27683@sei.cmu.edu> aw@sei.cmu.edu (Anne Wulffraat) writes:
>I have some questions and I'd appreciate any input from you guys.
>
>Do you have dreams? What are they like?

Yes, I do have dreams, probably more than I remember.  My dreams tend to be
set in the present, with me as an adult, but dealing with incidents and
feelings from my childhood (what little I remember of it).  So far, I
haven't unearthed any specific memories by dreaming, although I've had a
couple of hints that there may have been a type of abuse that I have no
conscious recollection of (I should say that I have always remembered that I
was abused, but denied that it had any effect on me until about 2.5 years
ago).

>Where were you un-involved parents or adult protective figures? Did none of
>us have them?

My father was my abuser.  He had gone back to college after leaving the
military, and my mother was working full-time to support the four of us (my
parents, my younger sister and myself); my sister was too young to be in
school, so she was in daycare until 5 or 6pm.  That left me alone at home
after school with my father, and that's when the abuse took place -- several
times a week from when I was 5 or 6 years old until I was around 12.  I've
asked Mom if she never suspected that anything was going on, and she says
that, since she loved and trusted my father, it never occurred to her -- and
of course I never told her.

>How do you deal with your parents/siblings - especially if you think they may
>not remember either?

My mother doesn't remember because she didn't know.  My sister remembers one
incident in which she walked into the bedroom while I was being abused, and
she remembers that he abused her twice.  Both of them are aware now that I
was abused repeatedly over a period of years and that I am trying to work my
way through it, and they are fully supportive of me; I'm fortunate in that.
Mom and I talk on the phone at least once a week (she's in New Mexico, I'm
in California); my sister (in New York) and I talk less frequently since
we've never been really close (another result of the dysfunctional family we
grew up in).  I confronted my father by letter last October and have
completely cut him out of my life -- I have had no contact whatsoever with
him since I received his answer to my letter, and I have no intention of
contacting him in any way in the foreseeable future.

					Lydia

"You're more than beginning -- you're learning to fly;
 You feel like you're falling, but it passes in time...."
			"From Me to You", Janis Ian
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Soprano (Lydia M. Uribe)                      uribe@jarthur.claremont.edu |
| Claremont, CA                                  uribe@hmcvax.claremont.edu |
|           Cats, quilts and diving -- what more could anyone ask?          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: root@khijol.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: hello ???
Date: 27 Aug 92 23:05:49 GMT

X-APS-Version: 0.2


well this was mailed to khijol\!anonasar@saturn.upl.com

how does it look and did it get here following the correct routes?


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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery