HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mwj@rz.uni-jena.de (Johannes Waldmann)
Subject: Re: tgrindef for ada? --- SUMMARY
Summary: Yes, here it is.
Organization: University Jena, Germany
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1992 11:21:38 GMT

A few days ago I asked for `tgrindef' definitions for Ada.
`tgrind' is anonymously ftp-able from various sites. Its README says:

> This is a pretty printer similar to 4bsd's "vgrind" except it uses
> TeX instead of troff.  It was written by Van Jacobson of Lawrence
> Berkeley Laboratory (van@lbl-csam.arpa).

It turned out that `tgrindefs' are the same as `vgrindefs', and 
Alex Blakemore (alex@cs.umd.edu) sent me this
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ada|Ada|a:\
        :pb=^\d?procedure|function|task|package(\dbody)?(\dtype)?\d\p\d|\
\(|;|return|is:\
        :bb=\d(begin|case|if|loop|record)\d:\
        :be=\dend\d\p:\
        :cb=--:ce=$:\
        :sb=":se=":\
        :oc:\
        :kw=abort abs accept access all and array at begin body case constant\
        declare delay delta digits do else elsif end entry exception exit for\
        function generic goto if in is limited loop mod new not null of or\
        others out package pragma private procedure raise range record rem\
        renames return reverse select separate subtype task terminate then\
        type use when while with xor:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
which works prefectly well. Furthermore, Alex Blakemore (alex@cs.umd.edu) said:

> also, I am working on something much better than vgrind
> thats 100% Ada specific - but it wont be done for a while,
> at least not if I keep reading USENET.
> if you were referring to a tool besides vgrind,
> please let me know.  I am always looking for related Ada tools.

David Emery (emery@74sun.mitre.org or emery@mitre-bedford.arpa ... my
mailer couldn't reach either of those addresses) said:

> I have a lex script that marks-up Ada for various word processors,
> including versions for Scribe, the POSIX mm-based TROFF macro set and
> MicrosoftWord (RTF).

So thanks to you all for prompt replies.  Johannes Waldmann


Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: M19481@mwvm.mitre.org
Subject: Ada Development Environments
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 14:42:34 GMT

I am trying to find information about Ada Development Environments.  If you
know of any other than Rational (which I am already investigating), I would
appreciate a lead.  Thanks...
 
David Hite - dhite@mitre.org
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu (Michael Feldman)
Subject: Re: Play 20K expressions again, Sam
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:13:53 GMT

In article <dnsurber.715958256@node_26400> dnsurber@lescsse.jsc.nasa.gov (Douglas N. Surber) writes:
>
>Actually no.  The Verdix compiler is written in C, not that silly Ada thing. :).
Indeed. Verdix, ICC, DEC, and Meridian use other languages to write their
compilers. Alsys, RR, TeleSoft, and Rational all use Ada.

Is Verdix' commitment to C as a host language a contributing factor in the 
bugs being so hard to fix?

A nice consequence of compiler houses writing their stuff is Ada is that
the developers really have to know Ada! I believe that will help them
better to understand the kinds of programs their customers will write.
(The Verdix guy's use of a C-ism shows me which language he focuses on...)

Mike Feldman
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: dnsurber@lescsse.jsc.nasa.gov (Douglas N. Surber)
Subject: Re: Wanted: User Interface tools recommendations
Organization: Lockheed Engineering and Sciences
Distribution: usa
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:50:16 GMT

In <1992Sep15.143122.23558@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> cobarruvias@asd2.jsc.nasa.gov writes:

>I am looking for recommendations on user interface tools especially those with
>Ada interfaces. I have the following suggestions already:

>TAE+ : A NASA developed and owned tool.
>SAMMII : A tool developed by SSI in support of the Space Station Program.

Builder Xcessory: by IXI.  IMHO the best interface tool available.  The most
    recent release uses a UIL to Ada translator from SERC to generate Ada.
    Works like a charm.
GRAMMI: developed by ??? under Govt. contract. Being marketed by EVB,
    the people who do the GRACE components. Reimplements some of the
    Motif widgets in Ada. Does not use the Motif code at all.  Very few
    users.
Screen Machine: by OIS. Best pure Ada support. Handles a lot of the
    problems with multitasking. Does not support the full Motif widget
    set.
TeleUse: by Telesoft.  The most recent (or maybe next) release can
    generate Ada. Depends on D, a proprietary language. Good tool.


Douglas Surber
Lockheed
Houston, TX
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: pattis@cs.washington.edu (Richard Pattis)
Subject: IBM Ada Prices
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: comp.ada
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 22:23:21 GMT

In a previous message I "quoted" some prices for Ada compilers for AIX/6000s.
The purpose was not to criticize the absolute prices, but to show that Ada
compilers cost much more than other languages (typically by a factor of 4).

I received the following message from IBM to clarify that different IBM
processors have different prices; I quoted only the upper-end prices, which
were representative, but might have left the wrong impression about how much
one had to spend to buy an Ada compiler. The only thing I was trying to say
was regardless of machine size, Ada cost much more.

Rich Pattis

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The prices of AIX/6000 compilers vary with the processor groups that
they run on. The prices you appended were for the top-of-the-line model
of the RISC System/6000 family. I urge you to post a clarification to
avoid any misunderstanding.

The AIX Ada/6000 compiler starts at US$3,820 for processor group D5.
If it is a second license ordered by a customer, it starts at US$2,865
for processor group D5.

(IBM announced a price action a couple of weeks ago. The above prices are
 valid for shipments prior to December 31, 1992. See below for the
 revised prices for shipments from January 1, 1993.)

With the price, you receive free maintenance and support for the product.
Customers receive fixes and updates free.

IBM also offers an educational allowance of 30% for Ada/6000.
For members of the Higher Education Software Consortium (HESC),
they can receive the Ada/6000 compiler free.

Attached is a summary of the prices for the AIX/6000 compilers for
shipments from January 1, 1993. Shipments prior to December 31, 1992
can enjoy lower prices.

                                  Basic/First license

                     Ada     XL C++    AIX VS Cob  XL Fortran  XL Pascal
                    -----    ------    ----------  ----------  ---------
 Commercial (US$)

 D5                  4010       918       1140                    684
 E5                  8020      1835       2285        1595       1370
 F5                 16040      3675       4580        3195       2745
 G5                 32090      7350       9170        6390       5495

 GSA/Federal (US$)

 D5                  2674       612        763                    684
 E5                  5348      1225       1526        1015       1370
 F5                 10696      2450       3055        2030       2745
 G5                 21399      4900       6114        4060       5495




-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Richard E. Pattis			"Programming languages are like
  Department of Computer Science	 pizzas - they come in only "too"
    and Engineering			 sizes: too big and too small."
From: rlk@VisiCom.COM (Bob Kitzberger)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: Re: Play 20K expressions again, Sam
Date: 9 Sep 92 23:36:37 GMT

arra@orb.camb.inmet.com (Arra Avakian) writes:

>Real world test suites are critical to compiler quality, no matter the 
>language it compiles or the its implementation language.
>Boostrapping puts a real world test case in the hands of the compiler 
>developer, with a very desirable impact on its quality.

A downside to bootstrapping is that it increases a vendor's time-to-market.

"Good cooking takes time.  If you are made to wait, it is to serve you better,
and to please you".

			-- Menu of Restaraunt Antoine, New Orleans
			   (shamelessly snagged from "The Myth. Man-Month")

	.Bob.
----------------
Bob Kitzberger          VisiCom Laboratories, Inc.
rlk@visicom.com         10052 Mesa Ridge Court, San Diego CA 92121 USA
			+1 619 457 2111    FAX +1 619 457 0888
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: goodsenj@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu (John Goodsen)
Subject: Re: Wanted: User Interface tools recommendations
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 16:43:56 GMT


>
>
>>I am looking for recommendations on user interface tools especially those with
>>Ada interfaces. I have the following suggestions already:
>
>>TAE+ : A NASA developed and owned tool.
>>SAMMII : A tool developed by SSI in support of the Space Station Program.
>
>Builder Xcessory: by IXI.  IMHO the best interface tool available.  The most
>    recent release uses a UIL to Ada translator from SERC to generate Ada.
>    Works like a charm.

Should the SERC translator work with *Any* builder which spits out UIL
and not just BX?

>GRAMMI: developed by ??? under Govt. contract. Being marketed by EVB,
>    the people who do the GRACE components. Reimplements some of the
>    Motif widgets in Ada. Does not use the Motif code at all.  Very few
>    users.

Very few users because it is just being released in Beta form as we speak...
Some big pluses for not using Motif code... Look at the Motif bug lists
for starters...  Think about Ada tasking issues as a followup.  
GRAMMI is completely Ada tasking safe - no reentrancy problems and no
blocking of application tasks...

>
>Screen Machine: by OIS. Best pure Ada support. 
>                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                         ahem....


>
>TeleUse: by Telesoft.  The most recent (or maybe next) release can
>    generate Ada. Depends on D, a proprietary language. Good tool.
>
TeleUSE blows every other C builder on the market away, hands down.
I`ve *SERIOUSLY* used all of them, including BX.  
TeleUSE D is a plus, not a minus.  They ship the run-time source so
you can port to any machine you desire...
You can generate UIL from TeleUSE, similar to all other C builders.


Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: dlc@ddsdx2.jhuapl.edu (Dave Collard x7468)
Subject: Re: Novice Question On Generics
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 92 00:17:18 GMT

In <1992Sep15.184345.12197@saifr00.cfsat.honeywell.com> lam@saifr00.cfsat.honeywell.com (Josh Lam) writes:

>I have a generic package Queue that has the function enqueue.

>This generic package is 'with' into two packages A and B that looks
>like:

>with Queue                                with Queue
>package A  is                             package B is 

> ...                                      ...

>Question:
>Is there a way to write a generic procedure Run_Proc that the two packages 
>A and B can use?   Note that the user *does not* need to know my_QA 

generic
  type Queue_Item is private;
  with procedure Enqueue(Item : in Queue_Item);
procedure Run_Proc is
begin
  Enqueue(Queue_Item);
end Run_Proc;

with Run_Proc;                           with Run_Proc;
with Queue;                              with Queue;
package A is                             package B is
  type A_Rec is record...                  type B_Rec is record...
  end record;                              end record;
  
  package A_Queue is new Queue(A_Rec);     package B_Queue is new
                                             Queue(B_Rec);

  procedure A_Run_Proc is new              package B_Run_Proc is new
    Run_Proc(A_Rec, A_Queue.Enqueue);        Run_Proc(B_Rec,B_Queue.Enqueue);

  ...                                      ...

end A;                                   end B;

BUT it is a pain *if* Run_Proc uses many procedures from
Queue.  Each routine from the queue package needs to be
a generic parameter to the Run_Proc (generic) routine.

In Ada 9X, you will be able to instantiate a routine or
package with an instantiation of another generic package
which will make the whole idea of generics much better.
So you will be able to to something like this:

generic
  with Some_Instantion_Of the generic Queue package; -- I dunno the syntax
procedure Run_Proc(Item : Some_Instantiation_Of.Item) is
begin
  SIO.Enqueue(Item);
  SIO.Dequeue(Item);
  SIO.Do_Anything_in_the_generic_package(Item);
end;

--Thor
collard@capsrv.jhuapl.edu
dlc@ddsdx2.jhuapl.edu


Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: dag@control.lth.se (Dag Bruck)
Subject: Re: Ada's (in)visibility in the engineering community
Organization: Department of Automatic Control, Lund, Sweden
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:13:46 GMT

In <comp.lang.ada> obry@flash.bellcore.com (Pascal Obry) writes:
>
> ... so they chose C++ (yes, they think it's the
>good old C plus something so it should be good too ... bad mistake no !)
>
> ... they have no good reason to choose C++ but they chose it ...

Well, I guess "gradual transition" is a reasonable argument.  I assume
that integrating Ada with existing C code must be (somewhat) harder
than integrating C++ code with existing C code, in particular if you
start using C++ as a "better C."

>Like Edmond Schonberg said in is comparison Ada 9x and C++ :
>
>" Although the C++ community would never state it so baldly, it appears clear
>to us that C++ is to some extent a reaction to Ada. By extending C with some
>of the best ideas of Ada, C++ did in some measure catch up to Ada "

Ed Schonberg also said in public that he thinks C++ is a more powerful
language than current Ada, and less powerful than Ada 9X.  (Stockholm,
earlier this year).
From: alex@cs.umd.edu (Alex Blakemore)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: Re: Play 20K expressions again, Sam
Date: 9 Sep 92 18:11:54 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <1992Sep9.161353.5418@seas.gwu.edu> mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu (Michael Feldman) writes:
> A nice consequence of compiler houses writing their stuff is Ada is that
> the developers really have to know Ada! 

I believe Verdix's run time is also written in Ada, along with their new optimizer.
When I last messed with it a long time ago, it looked alot like C in Ada syntax.

I can see some arguments for writing the code generator in C for easier ports,
but I cant help but wonder if we'ld see fewer "internal assertion errors" if
they'ld used Ada.  Actually, as long as it worked, I wouldnt really care.


-- 
---------------------------------------------------
Alex Blakemore alex@cs.umd.edu   NeXT mail accepted
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: goodsenj@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu (John Goodsen)
Subject: Re: GRACE information wanted
Organization: Ada Joint Program Office
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 03:09:48 GMT

cobarruvias@asd2.jsc.nasa.gov writes:

>
>Does anyone have any information on a product called GRACE? 
>I believe it stands for Graphical Reuasable Ada Components E?????.
>
>
>Any info would be appreciated!
>

GRACE = Generic Reusable Ada Components for Engineering

It's a very well documented & tested set of reusable
Ada components that run on several platforms and
compilers.  

Contact: Jennifer Lott
         EVB Software Engineering, Inc
         5303 Spectrum Dr. 
         Frederick, MD  21701
         1-800-877-1815
         grace-info@evb.com

For general information on EVB products and services you
can send email to  info@evb.com  or call the 800 number.

John Goodsen
goodsenj@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu

-- 
John Goodsen                              Ada Joint Program Office
jgg@evb.com                               PCIS Programme
800-877-1815                              goodsenj@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu
From: andrewd@cs.adelaide.edu.au (Andrew Dunstan)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: Re: Generics?
Date: 9 Sep 92 05:26:34 GMT
Organization: The University of Adelaide
NNTP-Posting-Host: achilles.cs.adelaide.edu.au

In article <6978@stan.xx.swin.oz.au>, rob@saturn.cs.swin.OZ.AU (Rob Allen) writes:
|> tp923021@jarrah.canberra.edu.au (Ben Elliston) writes:
|> >I've since moved onto making an array a generic type (such as this):
|> >GENERIC
|> >Type Index IS (<>);
|> >[..]
|> >Type Stack_Array IS Array(Index) of Character;
|> 
|> >Type Stack_Type IS RECORD
|> >  Data_Store: Stack_Array;
|> >  Pointer: Natural;
|> >END RECORD;
|> 
|> >As it stands now, it seems that since the "pointer" variable (which
|> >indicates the current "highwater" mark of the array) is a natural, that
|> >Ada won't allow a natural to access an array indexed by some unknown
|> >(generic) type.

[..]

|> If however you decide to keep Pointer as a Natural where 1 corresponds to
|> the first element then always use it as 
|>   X.Data_Store(Index'val(X.Pointer - 1 + Pos_1st))
|> where
|>   Pos_1st : constant := Index'pos(Index'first);
|> is to account for the likelihood that the actual Index is an arbitrary
|> subtype of a discrete type.  Using this approach the 'full' test is
|> X.Pointer = Index'length
|> Though none of the above code has been checked, I hope that helps.  rob


I'd like to see the code from which this is taken. If what is really wanted
is a stack, why is the index of the stack array a generic parameter? It
seems to me that the only generic type parameter for a stack type should
be the type stored - after all, the stack might not be implemented as an array
at all. I agree that Rob Allen's answer to the question is correct, but I
still want to know why the above is being attempted.

-- 
#######################################################################
#  Andrew Dunstan                   #   There's nothing good or bad   #
#  Department of Computer Science   #   but thinking makes it so.     #
#  University of Adelaide           #                                 #
#  South Australia                  #          - Shakespeare          #
#  net: andrewd@cs.adelaide.edu.au  #                                 #
#######################################################################
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu (Michael Feldman)
Subject: Re: Play 20K expressions again, Sam
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 04:12:15 GMT

In article <rlk.716081797@amstel> rlk@VisiCom.COM (Bob Kitzberger) writes:
>arra@orb.camb.inmet.com (Arra Avakian) writes:
>
>>Real world test suites are critical to compiler quality, no matter the 
>>language it compiles or the its implementation language.
>>Boostrapping puts a real world test case in the hands of the compiler 
>>developer, with a very desirable impact on its quality.
>
>A downside to bootstrapping is that it increases a vendor's time-to-market.
>
...as TeleSoft discovered. On the other hand, once the first bootstrapped
product is out there, each new version gets easier and better, as I think
TeleSoft also discovered.

Mike Feldman
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael B. Feldman
co-chair, SIGAda Education Committee

Professor, Dept. of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
School of Engineering and Applied Science
The George Washington University
Washington, DC 20052 USA
(202) 994-5253 (voice)
(202) 994-5296 (fax)
mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu (Internet)

"Americans wants the fruits of patience -- and they want them now."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: brucej@verdix.com (Bruce Jones)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: Re: Play 20K expressions again, Sam
Date: 7 Sep 92 06:52:28 GMT
Reply-To: brucej@verdix.com (Bruce Jones)
Organization: Verdix Western Operations; Aloha, OR

>emery@mitre-bedford.arpa  (David Emery) sez:
>I've run into the "damn Verdix bug" limit on number of branches in a
>case statement a couple of times.

This is to announce to our patient customers that the "damn Verdix bug"
has been fixed.  The limit of "20K expressions" (actually "22000 `logical
registers') has been changed to a limit of 0x40000000.  A nice round number,
large enough to accommadate most compilations for the forseeable future.

Appearing soon in a Verdix 6.2 release on your workstation.

	-- brucej
From: kramersc@expert.cc.purdue.edu (Scott C. Kramer)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: need info
Keywords: possible internship maybe next summer
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:07:25 GMT
Organization: Purdue University


 I have a question for you all out there in ada land. I am a college
sophomore majoring in accounting at Purdue University and I spoke with
someone else earlier on the Net and asked him what he thought my situation
was if I were to graduate from here with a computer systems background.
 He told me my chances were very good, but I don't know how having 
Unix is going to help me, even though I have developed good experience using
it,  In addition, he told me I should learn Ada. That is why I subscribed to
this newsgroup.
 Can anyone tell me about Ada and if it would benefit me in the long run or
what?  All help is appreciated very much...thank you..

Scott
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: koehnema@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Harry Koehnemann)
Subject: Re: Ada's (in)visibility in the engineering community
Followup-To: comp.lang.ada
Reply-To: koehnema@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Harry Koehnemann)
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:46:57 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.164402.7141@seas.gwu.edu> mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu (Michael Feldman) writes:
>Five years ago or so, I was made to listen to a drumbeat of exhortation
>from various representatives of the Ada community, meaning DoD folks,
>their contractors, and the compiler houses alike. These prophets told me
>that no student who didn't know Ada would ever be able to get a job.

Interesting thing happened to me last week.  I went to the local eye
place to get a pair of contacts and while putting them on I got to
talking with the "eye guy".  Note this was not the doctor, rather
the guy behind the desk.  Anyways he asked me if I attended the
university, then what I studied, then what my research area was, then...

Anyways to make a long story short, we talked for a while.  This guy used
to be involved with Ada somewhere in the government, then worked for a
rather famous Ada compiler vendor (probably should remain nameless), but
was now helping me with my contacts.  He was older - 43 if I recall - but
knowing Ada sure wasn't helping him get a job (he'd been out of work in
his field for ~a year).


>Anyone who thinks that Ada is being held back chiefly by not supporting
>multiple inheritance is barking up the wrong tree. The problem is not Ada.
>The problem is us, folks.

Excellent point.  I'm sure that forest is around here somewhere, if
we could just take care of these damn trees.
--
Harry Koehnemann
koehnema@enuxha.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: pattis@cs.washington.edu (Richard Pattis)
Subject: Ada Prices, again
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 23:53:49 GMT

FYI

I just received IBM's RISC 6000 catalog:
 
 AIX XL C++     $ 7,000
 AIX XL FORTRAN $ 6,090
 AIX VS COBOL   $ 8,735
 AIX Ada        $30,570
 AIX XL Pascal  $ 5,235
 
These are standard, not educational prices.
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Richard E. Pattis			"Programming languages are like
  Department of Computer Science	 pizzas - they come in only "too"
    and Engineering			 sizes: too big and too small."
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada