From: giao@informix.com (Giao Tien Vu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.vietnamese
Subject: Re: [POL] Re: VI: Cambodian Impasse can be solved
Date: 14 Nov 92 05:30:42 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1992Nov13.065616.26974@lsil.com> ltran@lsil.com writes:
>
>	What happen if Chinese came down and settle in Vietnam by the
>	millions per year? I exagerate the point, but can you invoke
>	the "humanitarian" side again? Will we react the same way Cambodians
>	react toward Vietnam? Don't do what you don't like other do to
>	you.

The Chinese did move to Vietnam in large numbers.  Remember the years
before the 10th century.  An interesting fact was that many Vietnamese
rebel leaders were Chinese descendants (Mai Ha('c DDe^', Khu'c Thu+`a
Du., Ngo^ Quye^`n).  Only in rare circumstances, Vietnamese did overreact
and persecute Chinese.  Most of the times, Chinese and Vietnamese lived
peacefully together (the Chinese played important role in building the
economy of the South throughout the 16th-20th century period).

>
>	I think that it is wrong to colonize Cambodia.  We cannot affort
>	it, both in historical sense and economical sense. The problem
>	created by a Vietnamese population in Cambodia has some direct
>	cause-effect relationship with the fact that Vietnam's army 
>	occupied Cambodia for 10 years. And for years that Vietnam annouced
>	they pulled out of Cambodia, although they only did so in 1990.
>
>	And there is no need to colonize another country in order to be
>	a strong nation. That was in the past. Japan understood the lesson.

The key question is: are the Vietnamese who currently live in Cambodia
the colonists of that country?  What power do they have?  Are they running
the government now?  Do they even have a voice in the government?

If it was 1989, I could agree with your point.  But this is 1992, there is
no Vietnamese army in Cambodia.  The Vietnamese living in Cambodia is
virtually defenseless.  The eight gruesome killings in the last few months
are ample evident that the Vietnamese are no colonists (do you think that
if they were real Vietnamese soldiers, they would not bring out their
weapons and killed the perpetrators before those guys had a chance?).  Why
perpetuate this kind of false image that the Vietnamese living in Cambodia
are trying to occupy that country?  Yes, there are Vietnamese who are
living illegally in Cambodia.  Those people should be persuaded to go
back by legal means.  I don't have any problem with that.  But please,
don't make these Vietnamese the victims of yet another ideological battle.
The backlash of stirring some Cambodians' hatred for Vietnamese would
result in a vicious cycle that would benefit neither people, neither
country.

>
>	On the otherhand, I agree with you that the violences urged by the
>	Khmer Rouge regarding the Vietnamese there, are out of place. 
>
>	By the way, probably not all of us will go back to Vietnam after
>	it will be free, but many of us will. 

Let's wait and see.  Don't say that too early.  For example, there is a
free, prosperous and democratic Israel, but why many Jews in the USA don't
want to move back there?

Giao

>
>	Linh
>
>
>Giao Tien Vu (giao@informix.com) wrote:
>: In article <1992Nov10.191055.14745@fx.com> davidto@fxgrp (David M To) writes:
>: >
>: >Dear Giao,
>: >
>: >Please go back and re-read the article.  The article's writer suggested
>: >that the option of the voluntary repatriation of Vietnamese settlers in 
>: >Cambodia should only be exercised IF AND ONLY IF:
>: >
>: >    * The Vietnamese government recalls all of its political apparatus 
>: >      members now living in Cambodia.
>: >    * The Vietnamese government provides the same democratic principle
>: >      and freedom that the Cambodian citizen now enjoy, namely restoring
>: >      human rights, freedom, and liberty to Vietnam.
>: 
>: No, you missed my point.  The danger of encouraging that thinking is that
>: we would give excuses to ANY racist feeling around the world toward
>: Vietnamese (or any other races).  The writer makes the simplistic
>: assumption that once Vietnam is democratic, the majority of people would
>: want to go home.  Reality is not that way.  The reason why people settles
>: down in certain region depends on many factors: economics, politics, and
>: some intangible reasons.  Once Vietnam becomes democratic, I don't
>: necessarily pack up my bag and go back there.  I have to consider many
>: factors: if I'm doing fine here, why am I going back?  The Vietnamese
>: living in Cambodia face the same kind of questions.  They don't go back
>: simply because Vietnam has a democratic regime.  All of their properties
>: are now in Cambodia.  If they go back they would not be able to get a place
>: to live where they want to live.  They would not be able to compete for
>: jobs that require different sets of skills.  They would face
>: discriminations (ask any Cambodian-born Vietnamese, they would tell you).
>: 
>: >
>: >This proposal has some merits by calling the Vietnamese government to play 
>: >a pro-active role to solve the impasse currently threateing the upcoming 
>: >election in Cambodia.  That role is to truly give the Vietnamese settlers 
>: >a better choice by returning to a democratic country.
>: 
>: The scary thing about this article is that it legitimizes the racist
>: feelings some Cambodians have against Vietnamese.  It reinforces the notion
>: that the Vietnamese would meddle with Cambodian politics beyond what influence
>: they have currently (giving the impression that a "pro-Vietnam government" is
>: something very bad for Cambodia; history has shown that Vietnam used to
>: have pro-China governments to no disadvantage).  In my point-of-view, it
>: trivializes the whole issue in a different way (the author wrote: "[t]he
>: Vietnamese would not think twice [about leaving Cambodia]").
>: 
>: >
>: >What you wrote about the rights of the Vietnamese settlers to either become
>: >Cambodian Vietnamese citizen or foreign citizen living in Cambodia is 
>: >absolutely 100% politically and morally correct, but it doesn't solve the 
>: >current Cambodian impasse, and that was the subject of the article.
>: 
>: The problem is that the article presents a seriously flawed premise from
>: the point-of-view of this Vietnamese.
>: 
>: >
>: >I'd really like to hear how do you propose to solve the election gridlock 
>: >in Cambodia.
>: 
>: The gridlock is there because one faction out of four refuses to
>: compromise.  It uses the Vietnamese as an excuse for its violation of the
>: accord it signed.  There is a truce, but this faction still continues
>: destroying and killing.  The first solution to the Cambodian problem is
>: to pressure this faction to sit down and seriously follow the accord.
>: Vietnamese had been there before the accord was signed.  Why didn't the
>: Khmer Rouge refuse to sign the accord then?
>: 
>: Giao
>: 
>: >
>: >Regards,
>: >
>: >David.
>: >
>: >
>: >giao@informix.com (Giao Tien Vu) writes:
>: >: Just imagine what if the US citizens start thinking the same way the
>: >: writer of this article does...
>: >: 
>: >: There would be a beginning of a "voluntary" repatriation of Vietnamese
>: >: back to Vietnam?  (A few murders would do the job, probably)
>: >: 
>: >: The anti-Vietnamese feeling in Cambodia has been high enough.  Please
>: >: don't propagate the view that Vietnamese ethnics in Cambodia are the
>: >: enemies of the Khmer people.  Haven't those savage killings the last
>: >: few months been enough?
>: >: 
>: >: The Vietnamese people in Cambodia will eventually have to decide their
>: >: citizenship.  If they want to make Cambodia their homeland, they should
>: >: become law-abiding Vietnamese Cambodians.  If they want to keep Vietnamese
>: >: citizenship, they would have the rights of foreigners living in Cambodia (be
>: >: allowed to live in Cambodia in the good will of the Cambodian government.)
>: >: Just as Chinese Vietnamese have been contributors to Vietnamese society,
>: >: why couldn't Vietnamese Cambodians become contributors to the Cambodian
>: >: society?
>: >: 
>: >: About the Khmer Rouge using this excuse, do you truly believe that after
>: >: the bulk of Vietnamese left the country, the Khmer Rouge would sit down and
>: >: really share power?  For years, they have accused that the Vietnamese
>: >: hid the troops in Cambodia and have yet produced any proof.  Do you truly
>: >: believe that after the Vietnamese left, they would not claim: "Some of
>: >: the Cambodians are actually Vietnamese!"?
>: >: 
>: >: Giao
>: >: 
>: >: In article <9211070257.AA06673@netcom.netcom.com> vinsight@netcom.com writes: