From: nadeem@igpho (Nadeem Malik)
Subject: Re: Contradictions in Quaran
Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 10:04:18 GMT

sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani) writes:
: In article <1992Aug13.170346.3087@bernina.ethz.ch>, nadeem@igpho (Nadeem Malik) writes:
: > Since just about everyone has given their opinion on this hot thread, I may
: > as well add my ta-pence worth of comments:
: > 
: > Polygamy and polyandry (sp?)
: > ============================
: > 
: > The ban on polyandry (women with more than 1 husband) in Islam is not 
: > merely because the father cannot be identified etc. Islam seeks to raise the
: > moral standards of human beings to the level where they are not just seen
: > as an animal homo-sapien-sapien. In this connection, it should be well
: > understood that a family is really built by the woman of the house. No
: > wonder the Holy Prophet, when asked by a disciple who is the most important
: > in rasising a family, he replied 'the mother; when further asked who was
: > the next most important person, he replied 'the mother' again; when asked
: > again the same question, again he replied 'the mother'; only when asked
: > the fourth time did he answer 'the father'. On an other occasion he stated
: > one his most celebrated sayings, "Paradise lays at the feet of the mother".
: > 
: > From this, it is abundantly clear the position of the woman in the house
: > is paramount in raising a moral and spiritual household, and ultimately
: > for the building of society in general. 
: > 
: 
: May we ask, what happens to females who don want to participate
: in this ultimate society. Islam dos not apply to career oriented women
: or does it ?
: 
: The problem is Islam does not HAVE a definition of career oriented 
: woman.

Women who do not want to be part of the Muslim society can simply leave it. Off
course in reality I agree that this will be exceptionally difficult, and the
women will in effect be exiled to Europe or USA by social pressure. This is
the case in most societies where deeply held social norms are violated.


No, Islam IS for career orientated women. All those beard-wagging mullahs
who issue fatwahs about women staying at home all the time should remember
the fact that the first (and some say his favourite) wife of the Holy 
Prophet (pbuh) was a business woman. When he married her she was the dominant
partner in the family business and always remained so till her death.

Women can participate in career; the only restriction being that it should
not be at the price of raising a good family. Millions of women are doing
this today all over the world.

: 
: > If we look at the lower mammals, we see a curious phonomenon; the female
: > consorts with any number of males and the children can only be indentified
: > through her. The question is whether humans, as social, moral and spiritual
: > beings, could also practice this behaviour. The fact that human society
: > is built essentially on the moral and spiritual excellence of the mother
: > strongly implies that this should not be allowed under any circumstances ..
: > whther DNA coding reaches 100% certainty or not. A loose woaman in the house
: > means the moral decay and ultimate destruction of society.
: > 
: 
: Animal kingdom is full of diverse family structure. 
: In many animals,  couples form a life long partnerships (many birds) , 
: in others males actually carry the fetuses to birth (sea-horse).
: In primates (most closely related to males), we have male dominated
: groups (mountain gorillas) and female dominated groups (chimps).
: It is a simple observation that all the family structures evolve
: to answer the needs of the environment.

Yes, but I think the overwhelming majority is female dominated.
: 
: > I do not claim that Muslim men are not promiscuous in some countries and in
: > some social circles (although in comparison to the West this is undoubtedly
: > much less); but I do claim that the really big difference between Islamic
: > and Secular societies is that women in Secular societies are as promiscuous
: > as men. This is the crucial imbalance (or is it balance!) that is really
: > destroying the moral fibre of the Western orientated societies.
: > 
: > 
: > Polygamy is allowed, not recomended in Islam. It has been allowed to cope
: > with situations of (1) war (2) men travelling far from home for long times;
: > (3) severe illness of a man. (There may be other cases also.) In the past
: > travelling was a real problem, and traditinally it is alway the man who
: > travels. Polygamy in this context can be well understood. However, as
: > travelling has become easier, I think that this may cease to be an important
: > factor. Indeed, the more advanced a scoiety, the less polygamy one observes
: > even in Muslim countries.
: > 
: 
: What about females travelling from home for long times ? 
: Many wives (girl friends) go to long distances (other universities)
: these days to get Ph.D (5-6 years), what about them ?
: 
: Now that women travel for long distances for longtimes, should we
: apply this law to females ?

No. As I explained, travelling is not the only thing. The most important
aspect is that a woman is the most important component is raising a family,
and social norms should reflect this. Hence woman cannot have more than 1
husband under any circumstances.
: 
: [stuff deleted]
: 
: > 
: > 
: > Finally, readers may be interested to note that the World Wode Anglican
: > church finally allowed polygamy at their last Lambath Coulcil, which is
: > held every 11 or so years. They said that in some regions of the world
: > polygamy is rampant; but this should not be prevented from receiving
: > Jesus in their hearts (or something like that). They meant Africa where
: > Christianity simply cannot prevent polygamy which is indeed rtampant 
: > their.
: > 
: > 
: > Regards,
: > Nadeem Malik
: > nadeem@p.igp.ethz.ch
: 
: I think polygamy is direct result of sexist attitudes and whenever
: societies can take advantage of some of its members they do. It is
: easy for men to pass laws about polygamy, stop and ask a female.
: Then you will understand, how wrong it is. It is easy for males
: to make long speeches about WHY females cannot have two husbands ?
: Is it difficult to be a female to be subject to these laws.
: 
: Let me give you another example, it is easy to sit in your home
: and make big speeches about How bad is abortion and killing of
: life etc etc, it is totally differnt to be a female, who has become
: pregnant and dont want the baby ?
: Under pressure even Bush and Qualye have admitted that their policy
: is a two-faced (in fact a LIE), a policy meant for others but not
: for them.
: 
: Same is true for polygamy laws in Islam, these are laws made by MEN
: to be imposed on WOMEN, if women had some say in this, I would 
: like to see how these laws would look like.

The fundamental answer is that it was God who made these laws, not men.
: 
: I like Islam for great things it achieved in terms of equality
: of races, some rights of women, etc. but it scores rather low in 
: equality of man vs. woman, as examplified above.
: 
: I dont want to bash Islam too much, but at the same time we must
: point out its weakenesses if we see any.
: 
: regards,
: 
: -Naveed


There is, however, one interesting point that I am not sure about: if
non-Muslims practice polyandry in a Muslim society, is this allowed?
In principle Islam allows complete religious freedom, so presumably
this would be allowed?

regards,

Nadeem Malik
nadeem@p.igp.ethz.ch