HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: vanm@col.hp.com (Van Martin)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:05:52 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division


 The "Update" in 11-Nov-92's Gazette was a touching remembrance of
a troubled Marty Booker.  There are some statements that, again, are
a mis-representation of Amendment 2's purpose and CFV's goals.
CFV does not have a Hitler-like "Auschwitz" in mind for anyone.  CFV
is an organization formed in reaction to the homosexual activist 
movement in Colorado to combat one-sided appeals in Legislature.

 Contrary to the reporter's coverage of this campaign and issue, there
is another (majority) opinion in Colorado that homosexual behavior
doth not a specially-protected group make.  As a petition-carrier and
voter I do not look down my nose at the homosexual population, yet the
articles I read in the paper give me the impression that the author
and the "media-lite" very much look down their noses at we narrow-
minded, pinch-nosed conservatives.  Differing opinion and conviction
have no room in the eyes of the media:  "my way or the highway" as the
saying goes.  Since the conservative voice cannot be heard in media
articles, we must continue to submit editorial after editorial in an
attempt to give some small measure of balance to the overwhelmingly
pro-homosexual newsroom.

 Mr.  Booker's suicide IS a tragedy, but blaming CFV for a tortured
soul's decision to end his life is mis-laid blame.  To my knowledge,
I never met Mr.  Booker personally, yet his suicide note (and this 
article) lumps CFV and myself with gay-bashers and neo-nazis (which 
we categorically are NOT).  Just the facts, ma'am, as Sgt.  Friday
used to say.

Van Martin		
vanm@col.hp.com

All ideas expressed here are my own, 
though you ought to consider that I am right

"All the ways of a man are pure in his own eyes,
     But the LORD weighs the spirit"  
Prov. 16:2
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: jmckee@world.std.com (Jim McKee)
Subject: Re: Messages from a Cherokee
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 09:33:28 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.140659.666@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> gsmith@lauren.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Gene W. Smith) writes:
>
>Since some people will have missed these, I thought I would repost
>them:
>
>Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
>From: cherokee@cscns.com (Kangi Taku Wakan)
>Subject: Today I Mourn
>Message-ID: <By056J.ECy@cscns.com>
>Organization: Community_News_Service
>
>
>By the standards of the people for whom this group is named, I guess I am
>just a "het-boy", though (at least I think) not a stupid one.  Today I mourn.
>
>A friend of mine, whom I have grown very fond of in the past few weeks,
>told me today that he is HIV-positive.  My friend happens to be gay, a
>fact that I was not entirely sure of until today.  This fact does not
>change the fact that he is one of my best friends; but the fact that he
>has been HIV+ for 7 years makes me think that my friend will not walk
>among the living much longer.  He is very frail but in decent health, I
>suppose, considering his situation.  He says he has been kept alive by the
>herbal potions of the holy men of his tribe, the Karuk of California.  All
>AZT did was make him violently ill.
>
>Perhaps he has become accustomed to the idea of living with HIV, but I,
>who have never to my knowledge known anyone with this affliction, feel as
>if someone who is my friend may soon leave the earth before it is his
>time.  This saddens me so deeply I have sought out this newsgroup, to ask
>anyone out there who been through the loss of a friend or a loved one to
>AIDS: How does one prepare one's self for the loss of one so valued?
>
>If anyone out there can give me an answer, please do.  I feel lost.
>
>Kangi Taku Wakan
>(Medicine Crow)
>cherokee@cscns.com

This may not be much consolation, but besides continuing to love him as
you always have, try to learn the lessons that his dying is teaching 
you about yourself and your own life. I have learned so much about how
to live by walking through my friends' deaths. This, among so much
they gave me in health, was their final gifts to me.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim McKee                    \  "The reward is in the journey."
jmckee@world.std.com         /  On the Red Road with my brothers and all my
jmckee@silver.lcs.mit.edu    \  relations. Ho! Mitakuye Oyasin
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@vccsouth27.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Queers in military in other countries???
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:17:03 GMT

cf379@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (J. Alan) writes:


>I'm fairly sure Canada lets queers into the military, and
>even did studies to see what happened -- answer: NOTHING.
> 
Well, Canada only started letting Queers into the military because of a court
ruling that occurred just about three weeks ago.

The US Department of Defense has done studies about the effect of Queers in the
military and also come up with naught.

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C. in 93!''
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
``The first thing you do is forget that I'm Black. Second, you must never forget
that I'm Black.'' -Pat Parker, "For the white person who wants to be my friend"
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Re: Military Ban (etc.)
Organization: Smiley Abolition Front
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:33:26 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.190852.11394@athena.mit.edu> tcarlin@athena.mit.edu (Thomas B Carlin) writes:

>>If Clinton himself goes back on it I will change my registration
>>to republican so I can vote for Weld in the republican primaries.
>>He is more pro gay rights than most democrats.
>
>Now, now -- not everyone can live here in Massachusetts (which
>has the only two openly gay members of congress, the most pro-gay
>gov I know of, and -- hell! -- the Kennedys to boot!), although
>you're all welcome.

Well, we can assume Weld will win the Mass. Republican primary if
he runs. He'll need the votes much more in other states. I
registered Republican to support Weld, since California has a big
split between the pro-gay Republicans and the cavemen. In fact,
the only thing we all agree on is Pete Wilson...
-- 
Andrew Michael Solovay    

"We know that Solovay is a misogynist and an idiot..."
                --Melinda Shore
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: more faces for the soc.motss photo archive
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 03:43:00 GMT

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>I would hope it did!  You're the kind of person I would
>like to see in office: my office, and right now, if you
>please!

Yes, Mistah Anderson. Right away, Mistah Anderson. Shall I take a
dictation, Mistah Anderson?

John, wearing a pencil behind his ear and a low-cut blouse

--
John Dorrance        * Sexyfunky Motherfuckerdiva *   thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

		I bet if you threw that ass into the air
			It'd turn into sunshine!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: Bear Crap
Organization: insert anything here
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 02:47:25 GMT

glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
>|> And this is just one example.... It goes on *much* further.
>Space Aliens?  

	No they're pretty hairless...

Oops :-)

BBC
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: Lesbianville on 20/20
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:29:50 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <1992Nov19.191736.28963@oracle.us.oracle.com> dgilly@us.oracle.com (Daniel Gilly) writes:
>"Cocksucker" and "muffdiver" describe what one is, not what one does.  

You are what you eat, dear?
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
Subject: Re: Letter from my father
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:40:42 GMT

Thanks to everyone who's responding to this thread!

Daniel Gilly (dgilly@us.oracle.com) wrote:
       [from his father's letter]
>  I attended last week a meeting of the PFLAG group...

I'd be really happy to find out that my father had talked about
having a gay son with _any_ other human being.  I am pretty sure
he has not.  I feel that both my parents are digging in their
heels to avoid any movement or growth.  Too bad for them -- and
for me, too.

I got angry with my mother on the phone last week.  I'm taking
a trip to Chicago over Thanksgiving weekend to attend a reunion
of my high school church youth group -- 25 years later -- and 
she said, "Well, stay away from _my_ friends".  So I got mad,
and asked her if she'd voted for Oregon's Measure 9.  When 
she said, "Of course not!" I countered, "Well I can't imagine
why not!"  Really clever, eh?

Mike Drayton      mdrayton@sr.hp.com       Hewlett-Packard Co.
                                           Santa Rosa, California
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Care to flame a bigot?
Keywords: bigot flame prejudice homosexuality
Date: 20 Nov 92 19:51:15 GMT
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <102716@bu.edu> kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:

>In article <Bxzu2B.9oL@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
>mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (REAL LIFE?!?!  HA!!) writes:

[someone elses stupidity, which Michael Chaffee cross-posted]

Please note that Michael didn't write this drivel. I accidentally
attributed it to him---sorry!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mudge@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (MUDGE BRIAN WAYNE)
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me about this TV show?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:43:04 GMT

In article <69802@cup.portal.com> Minotaur@cup.portal.com (A Frank Swilling) writes:
>George Madison tells tales of shaving terror:
>
>>BTW -- has anyone else heard the news-bit about the link between
>>leukemia and electric shavers?
>
>>[> George D. Madison
>
>Well *I* haven't heard it, and I use an electric razor.  Where did
>you hear this?  What did you hear?
>
>Frank
>Minotaur@cup.portal.com

  THE WALL STREET JOURNAL (no, i'm not shouting, that's the way they
print it) Nov-13, 1992.  I don't remember which section, but you can
bet it wasn't "finance".
  Apparently, some researchers think that e-mag waves do something funny
to the pineal gland, causing a cancer link.
  Unfortunately, the study was not a causality one.  That is, they first
started with X number of cancer patients, and then found out how many
of them used electric razors.  Naturally, the electric razor use could
be merely coincidental.

                     Bri...

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: Men Not Getting It (was Re: Twice Fucked)
Organization: insert anything here
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 16:59:39 GMT

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
mara@panix.com >(Mara Chibnik) writes:
>>dfs@lestat.bellcore.com (Deborah Swayne) asked Andrew M. Solovay:

>>>>Excellent.  Do you use anti-woman expressions whenever you
>>>>want to insult a man, or do you reserve them for insulting
>>>>gay men?

>>psp@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (P.S. Powledge) follows up:
>>>what *really* pisses me off is to see this women-hating
>>>drivel posted here time and time again [...]I mean by men
>>>who are claiming to be part of this community.

>>Yup.  It's a little hard to explain if you don't get it in
>>the first place.

>*So* much seems to rest on men not "getting it," doesn't it?
>I've always been somewhat at a loss to understand to
>understand why more men, indeed all men, don't get it.

	I think except for the terminally clueless a lot of people
(and this extends to "not getting it" in situations of race, creed,
orientation, sex, age, etc...) are afraid of exploring themselves,
their thoughts, actions, words, gestures, etc. for fear of finding
themselves imperfect or impure from prejudices, and the associated
"-isms" and "-phobias" that go along with them.

	The rational don't want to think themselves "Xphobic"
or "Xist" since they do realize that is isn't a good thing.  On the
other hand they won't self-examine their behavior because they
don't want to have to come to grips that they might be Xist and
then have to deal with it.  

	And so they deal with it in any number of ways: throwing
$$$ at it (so they have some tangible "proof" that they couldn't
*possibly* Xists, look at all the charity they gave to stopping
anti-X stuff...!), denying its existence in things they have contact
with, pointing it out in everyone thing and everyone but themselves,
and not recognizing it when pointed out in something they say/do.

	I'd like to think that I am not misogynist, racist, etc.
but there are skeletons to be found if I choose to look for them and
see them when they scream "boo!".  Hunting them down and not ignoring 
them is the only way to purge them.  Putting better locks on the closet
doors might fool some people and usually fools oneself best, but it
doesn't make the bogeyperson go away.

	In this regard (and linking in with another thread), I *greatly*
appreciate soc.motss for helping me to beat down some of those barriers.
It's very difficult to keep up pretenses of "well, *I* don't have those
problems" when there are N people out there who can call me to the carpet,
and (in a bittersweet sort of way) M 'bad examples' to compare my own 
behavior with.  I've seen some misogyny here attempting to disguise
itself as "camp" (there are differences!) and have been at first suckered
into going along with it until someone has the foresight to point it out.
Social decay, like tooth decay isn't a pleasnt thing, nor is cleaning 
it up painless...  But the benefits afterwards make it worth the effort.

BBC
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: schiles@valentine.us.oracle.com (Suzanne Chiles)
Subject: Re: colorado springs
Reply-To: schiles@us.oracle.com
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:56:03 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

The local press refers to Mr. Martinez as "The Naked Guy."  There are no
laws against nudity in the city of Berkeley, so he's fine in town.  On
campus, however, they've created laws against nudity, and The Naked Guy
covers his genitalia with a bandanna.  I'm starting to get concerned
about The Naked Guy as the temperature drops, however.

Suzanne

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Suzanne Chiles				schiles@us.oracle.com
415-506-6194				Oracle Corporation
		      Honor Diversity
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics,co.general,talk.politics.misc,co.politics.amend2.discuss,boulder.general,csu.general
From: jyoder@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Yoder)
Subject: Re: Support the boycott (was Re: Don't boycott all of Colorado)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 23:17:03 GMT

>Let's see... The Interstate highways are also public property. Does that
>mean I can declare a 100ft strech of I-25 to be my 1/250,000,000th share,
>and start charging tolls? Public property is supposed to be used for
>the general good (as determined by our trustees, the federal government)
>not as any one individual wishes.
>
>                                                   Frank Crary
	If you feel that you are capable of enforcing it and not getting
noticed, fine by me.  I can take an alternate route.
	Besides, do you think the feds are the best trustees for our
collective property?

--
   jyoder@nyx.cs.du.edu  aka Chris Yoder | yoder_c@maui.hsc.colorado.edu
***HATE is !(a family value); Repeal Amen2.***
** Hail Eris, All Hail Discordia ** Voice: +1 303 270 7350
--If voting could change anything, it would be illegal.
From: lmadison@nl.oracle.com (Linc Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Advice sought on living in UK
Date: 20 Nov 92 20:11:23 GMT
Reply-To: lmadison@nl.oracle.com (Linc Madison)
Organization: Oracle Europe

Hi, everybody -- I'm baaaack!

I am at the moment living in Dublin, Ireland, but will be moving (and
abandoning this e-mail address) in about a month, and crossing the water
to the Ewe-nightie Kingdom.  My quandary is that I still haven't decided
*where* in the UK to locate.  Current candidates include:  [Oh, yes, I
guess I should mention that I'll be there on a six-month student work visa,
although I probably won't stay out the entire six months, more like four
and a bit.  Qualities of interest include: nice housing at a reasonable
price, job possibilities (most likely of the temporary clerical sort),
weather, social climate, intellectual life, and the like.]

London -- obvious advantages of lots of social, cultural, and economic
activity, but also obvious disadvantages of crowding, crime, noise, and
EXPENSE.

Brighton -- nice seaside town, reputed to have a large motss population,
about an hour from London, but still a town of only about 150,000.  Still,
the weather would be nice....

Cambridge -- university town, ergo presumably reasonably high level of
intellectual activity, still close to London, but also a fairly small town.

Edinburgh -- lively arts scene, but it's cold and a long way to anything
else.

Manchester -- reputed to have a high concentration of motsseurs, reasonably
medium-sized city, close to friends in the MANW area (Merseyside And
Northern Wales, as in MANWEB).

Of course, one of the questions I have no information on at all is the
availability of public-access internet sites at reasonable cost -- just in
case my next job doesn't come with e-mail on the side.

-- Linc Madison  ==  LMadison@IE.Oracle.Com  (temporarily!!)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Velveeta (was Patrick Stewart & "Space Age")
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 02:33:44 GMT

Velveeta cheese food:
another little miracle
from your friends
at DOW chemicals.

--
John Dorrance        * Sexyfunky Motherfuckerdiva *   thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

		I bet if you threw that ass into the air
			It'd turn into sunshine!
Newsgroups: soc.motss,rec.pets.cats
From: jon@Turing.ORG (Jon Gefaell (KD4CQY))
Subject: Re: gayfolk and cats
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 17:32:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov22.041642.25481@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> ren@Turing.ORG (Karen Prestemon) writes:
>
>I just want to comment that I don't know a single gay person who owns
>a cat (and A LOT of my college friends have come out of the closet within
>the past two years!).  I don't know a single gay person with a pet, for
>that matter. My husband has a bi friend with two cats... does that count?

Who, me?

I was just sitting here, reading this thread and loving it, Babbage sitting
on my shoulder (She's about 20 Lbs) and Lenin playing 'Pet me with BOTH
feet' under the table and wondering if they'd put up with Yet Another Cat.

>Anyway, how did this thread start in the first place? 
>
>--Karen (very soon to be owner of a new kitty!) 

Very k00l... Don't feed the darling supermarket food, it just kills them. 
spend a couple dollars a pound for Iams... 

And of course I've got a standard kitty-warming present to give ya :)
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: New Catholic Catechism
Date: 17 Nov 92 15:58:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Nov17.155832.7684
Organization: insert anything here

berninge@cs.purdue.edu (James Berninger) writes:
>On my way home from Hickville, Indiana (TM), I was quite taken aback
>by a national news report that the Catholic Church (TM) has issued a
>new catechism -- the first one in over 400 years.  It mentions,
>among other things, a new stance on gays: "One should avoid all
>unjust discrimination of them."

>I'm mildly curious if anyone has a more complete copy of this text
>-- I'd like to see what this section is about...

	It's still only in French...

	Another "pearl" --- divorce is "FORBIDDEN" between
baptized Catholics (I'm not sure why they make this distinction),
but polygamy is only listed as a "grave offense".  Go figure.

	Oh and now it's OK to enjoy sex, just don't enjoy it *too*
much...

	Re: the gay thing - it might invalidate the paper that went
around some monthsa ago, BUT one would also need in the
new dictum to define "unjust".... could be that "unjust" only
means no concentration camps...

	I wouldn't say Hallelujah quite yet...

BBC

P.S.  The council of bishops in theUS actually met with Dignity
yesterday --- I wonder what they could have possibly said to each
other.  At the same time the bishops tried like hell to avoid having
to meet with clergy sexual-abuse survivors... (they finally did).

PPS It's snowing...  :-(
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Patrick Stewart & "Space Age"
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 15:46:47 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.123411.16194@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> Young man!  I remind you that this is a decent, upstanding
> newsgroup and that your remarks are spread, er,
> disseminated, er, broadcast all over Wisconsin, where our
> motto is "Eat cheese or die."
                       ^^
Not "and"? All that nice saturated animal-based fat... instant
cholesterol!

:-) (-:
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: pmele@ldgo.columbia.edu (phil mele)
Subject: Re: We're on TV again!
Summary: in a negative light again!
Organization: Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:37:34 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.010804.9897@tc.cornell.edu>, shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
> Tomorrow night a made-for-tv movie about deranged lesbian
> psycho-serial-killer prostitute Aileen Wuoronos is going to
> be on one of the major networks.
> 
> I am curious to see how they handle the relationship - they
> really do have to include it if they want the film to be
> remotely accurate, since it was the girlfriend who turned
> Wuoronos in.  It's so nice to see images of lesbians in the
> major media :-X.  Don't miss it!

you're kidding, what is so nice about seeing a lesbian as a
''deranged .. psycho-serial-killer prostitute''.  lesbians and gay men
are allways shown as abnormal deviants in movies; basic instinct,
silence of the lambs; or swishy; prince of tides.  sure, sit-coms
are doing a decent job at portraying lesbians and gay men as ''normal'',
but i wouldn't celebrate another movie being shown prime time on
national tv that depicts a lesbian as a psychotic killer, it's just
more fuel for the fundamentalist ass holes.  why don't they make
a movie about a serial killer minister/priest who is caught by
a lesbian/gay cop?  (hmmm, not a bad idea.  funny how the mind
works when you get a little excited.)

-- 

Phil Mele  (pmele@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu)
Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory of Columbia University
Palisades, N Y  10964
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: wallsj@CS.ColoState.EDU (jeffrey joel walls)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:04:47 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

>The Governor is not trying to get the Amendment declared unconstitutional,
>nor can he legally do any such thing. His job is to enforce the laws of
>the State, regardless of his opinions about them. In fact, he and the
>Attroney General are _required_ to defend Amendment 2 in court.

  Well, possibly, but why was he on TV saying that he was against
  2 and would do anything possible to declare the amendment
  unconstitutional?

Jeff