HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cs161feu@sdcc10.ucsd.edu (Anthony Minkoff)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
Subject: Re: Sting
Date: 10 Nov 92 06:57:16 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

I've never played with Sting, but I think I'll make a point of
getting it in the game the next time I play.  I'd like to see it
playtested.

It seems to me to be an extra-powerful Zombie.

Get a hand at the beginning of the game.  Play the good cards out of
it.  Then send four tokens into an alliance.  If you lose, designate
the loss of the four tokens to somebody else, and let him take all
the crap from your hand.  Then get a new hand and start the process
all over again.

Perhaps we need a definition of voluntary.  For example:  Any tokens
in an alliance.  Any tokens in excess of one as an offensive player.
Any time you play a Flare or Edict (e.g., Plague) on yourself that
causes you to lose tokens.  Any tokens you lose when you refuse to
let Sniveller out of the warp.

Examples of *involuntary* loss:  Any tokens lost as defensive player
(assuming you're not the Amoeba).  One token as an offensive player.
Loss to a Plague played by somebody else.  Any tokens you lose when
somebody else refuses to let Sniveller out of the warp.

Question:  What about Insect vs. Sting?  (The Power Text does not
say anything about use with Insect.) 

"Uh, gee, I lose?  Okay, *you* lose the four tokens to the warp."

"*I* lose four tokens to the warp?  Okay, give me four cards, and
*you* lose four tokens to the warp."

"Okay, give me my four cards back, and *you* lose four tokens to the
warp."

"No, *you* lose tokens!"

"No, *you* do!"

"You!"

"You!"

"You times ten!"

I can't *believe* the playtesters didn't think of this.  Guys?

Aw, heck.  I don't think I'd want to play the Sting anyway.
According to the History, I'd be impotent.  :-(

Tony
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
From: goldberg@iastate.edu (Adam Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Sting
Originator: goldberg@vincent1.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:52:05 GMT

>>
>>I nominate Sting as the worst-phrased MCE power.
>>
>>
>>	"Whenever you lose tokens involuntarily, you may
>>	designate another player to lose them instead."
>>
>>Symmetrically, when does someone "voluntarily" lose tokens?
>>
>>
>If you Plague yourself!
>You agree to give up tokens in that flare that makes everyone discard each type   of card and 3 tokens.

>There are bound to be others.

How about refusing to make a deal?  Or AS part of a deal?

-- 
 Adam Goldberg                  !   Ask me how IOWA STATE UNIVERSITY is  
 goldberg@iastate.edu           !   censoring my usenet access!!        
 ..!uunet!iastate.edu!goldberg  !   >>I don't need a BIG BROTHER!!<<
From: gharris@jade.tufts.edu (George W. Harris)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
Subject: Liens on Cards (was: Re: Sniveler
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:40:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Nov9.204047.13294
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA

In article <1992Nov8.023104.2957@sbcs.sunysb.edu> gkatz@csws14.ic.sunysb.edu (Gerald W Katz) writes:
>
>I also have another question, relating to a "lien" on
>your hand when your opponent plays a Compromise card.
>We had no argument, I'm just curious about other people's opinions.
>
>I am Insect.  I have three cards, a Compromise, Attack 10, and
>a Cosmic Zap.  The offensive player is Sorcerer and draw my color
>in the destiny pile.  He places two tokens in the cone and invites
>Zombie as an ally, who stereotypically accepts and allies with
>four tokens.  We play challenge cards with the understanding that
>as Insect, I am copying Sorcerer.  I play my Compromise card.
>As offensive player, Sorcerer has the opportunity to use
>his power first.  He declines.  I now have the opportunity to use
>the power, and I do so.  We switch cards and reveal them.  Naturally
>Sorcerer has my Compromise Card.  It turns out he played an
>Attack 14.  I win the challenge.  Sorcerer now has a lien on my
>hand to take two consolation cards.  
>Now, at this time, I played my Cosmic Zap on Zombie so that his
>tokens would go to the warp as a losing ally.  Sorecerer now
>only gets my Attack 10 for consolation.
>Question: Is the playing of the Cosmic Zap legal even though
>it was played while there was a lien on my hand yet it was
>the only time I could play the Zap on Zombie?
>
>Again, everyone accepted that I was allowed.  I just want to
>know what others think.

	This would depend on what version you are playing.  If you are playing
Eon, then your interpretation is correct.  However, if you are playing 
Mayfair, I believe you are specifically prohibited from playing any cards
from your hand (except to cancel the consolation) if another player is en-
titled to consolation.  Thus, in Mayfair, your interpretation is incorrect.

	We had a situation similar to this in a game not too long ago.  The 
winner of a challenge (the defensive player) wanted to play a card that would
prevent his allies from collecting defensive rewards (I was one, and was 
Glutton).  However, this card could only be played before allies took rewards,
which happens before consolation (due to timing conflict resolution), and the
loser had played a compromise.  Thus, he couldn't play it when it had to be
played, because his hand was frozen.  We had a question about this, but con-
sulting the rules gave us this interpretation.
>
>					gkatz
--
gharris@jade.tufts.edu          
George W. Harris              	"He'd kill us if he had the chance."  
Dept. of Mathematics            
Tufts University              			The Conversation
From: cs161feu@sdcc10.ucsd.edu (Anthony Minkoff)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
Subject: Re: Silencer power - need opinions
Date: 7 Nov 92 19:08:37 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Nov5.000431.10538@muddcs.claremont.edu>,
irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu (Josh Smith) writes:
>In a prior article, Tony Minkoff (cs161feu@sdcc10.ucsd.edu) writes:
>> I agree.  The Silencer is a great power.
>
>The standard we eventually came up with, I think, was that you could make a
>required game action, but not communicate any information beyond that
>conveyed by your taking of the action.
>This is sort of like what you
>describe:
>
>> The House Rule is that Silencer does not stop
>> *mandatory* communication.
>> [a Silenced player must] respond to Seeker with "Yes" or "No"
>
>I've forgotten how Seeker is worded. Doesn't it say that the person asked
>the question "must answer, if possible"? That makes it sound like Silencer
>might make it impossible for Seeker to answer. I don't remember the verbatim
>text of the Seeker card, though.

Quoting from the Mayfair:

    ...you may ask one of the main players a "yes" or "no" question.
    He must answer truthfully.  You may ask him the question any
    time before cards are played, and he must answer it then.  If it
    involves his intentions, he must decide then and subsequently
    abide by that decision if he can.

So he must answer.  You probably remembered the "if possible" from
the intentions clause.  Thus, for example, if you ask Mirror whether
he intends to call "reverse," and he answers "yes", and is then
silenced, he can not call reverse.

On the other hand, if he is silenced, and *then* you ask, he must
answer "no."  (What a waste of a question.)

Tony
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
From: jhildeb1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Jeff Hildebrand)
Subject: Re: Sniveler
Reply-To: hildebra@math.wisc.edu (Jeff Hildebrand)
Organization: Don's Merry Horde of Topologists
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 19:11:23 GMT

irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu (Josh Smith) writes:
> In any case, Zombie typically hoses the other players when Sniveler whines
> about tokens in the warp, since he (Zombie) has no incentive to agree to let
> Sniveler have his tokens back. Even if Zombie had to lose bases, it might be
> worth it... Say Sniveler has seventeen in the warp: even though you drop to
> three bases, you still have twenty tokens on those three bases, whereas
> everyone else has only three tokens on the board! Play to hose, eh. (grin)

	Yes but if Zombie does this he better be extremely careful where he
takes those token from. He's going to either lose all his external bases, or
else lose his powers, and boy would that really suck. :)

-Jeff
-- 
Jeff Hildebrand, The Shaggy TA			hildebra@math.wisc.edu
"Join that political superman, secret agent double 0 zero, George Bosh
in his new film, 'Never Just Say No Again.'"      Off The Cuff, R.I.P.
"Did everyone buy that? Good, 'cause I didn't"   The Proof By Snow Job
From: Eric-Amick@cup.portal.com (Richard E Amick)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
Subject: Re: Silencer power - need opinions
Date: Thu,  5 Nov 92 21:30:37 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa
  <1992Nov2.153404.7614@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>

In article <harrison-011192162416@macb044.mv.us.adobe.com> harrison@adobe.com (
>Harrison Page) writes:
>>We discovered the Silencer power after we unwrapped MCE last week.
>>Darned effective power, especially if both players play Compromise
>>cards or the silenced player has powers that require them to state
>>their intentions aloud.  Aura: "Reveal your hands."  Mirror: "I
>>mirror this challenge."  Machine: "I choose to go again."  ...
>
>Whoa...I don't believe the Aura is an optional power, therefore no
>gesture or communication is required in order to tell the main players
>to reveal their hands.

Mayfair's Aura is optional; I don't know about Eon's.
From: woodhams@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Michael Woodhams)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
Subject: Re: Sniveler
Date: 8 Nov 92 03:58:11 GMT
Organization: Princeton University Observatory
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1992Nov8.023104.2957@sbcs.sunysb.edu> gkatz@csws14.ic.sunysb.edu (Gerald W Katz) writes:
[about Zombie in a game where sniverler whines about tokens in warp]
>
>Actually, I say say Zombie, along with other players, would
>all agree to put their tokens into the warp to equal the number
>of tokens as Sniveler.  However, as Zombie, he just doesn't go
>to the warp.

Yes, probably the best solution. However, if Sniveler had say 17
tokens in warp, Zombie would have to lose all but 3 bases as 17 tokens
when on an aborted trip to the warp.

What happens if Sniveler has 17 tokens in the warp, and somebody has 5
tokens fungused/vampired/voided/assessed? I assume that because that
person cannot match the Sniveler in the warp, the sniveler gets their
tokens back. (Void/Wrack/Sniveler/Amoeba. What an evil combination. Of
course, replacing Sniveler with Zombie is even better.)

Other solutions to the zombie/sniveler problem: (1) Sniveler gets their
tokens back (unless zombie is zapped); (2) We allow Zombie to
voluntarily ignore their power and put tokens in warp anyway. (A very
questionable practise.)

>On an unrelated note, I was reading some Eon powers and noticed
>something strange about Demon.  When Demon possesses the offensive
>player, the power card says that the orignal offensive player's
>power is no longer in effect.  Now for a hypothetical scenario:
>
>Loser is offensive player.  After allies are declared, Loser
>call "upset".  Main players play cards face down.  Demon
>now possesses Loser's tokens.  
>Question:  Is Loser's "upset" still valid?

Using the "original intent" doctorine, I would say yes. Using the "law
as it is written" I would say no, but this is silly. Only main-player
and ally only powers should be negated by the demon. (As the possesed
player is no longer a main player or an ally.) Similarly, in a
multi-power game, if Demon/Prophet makes a prediction and then
posseses, the prediction should no longer have any effect.

>I also have another question, relating to a "lien" on
>your hand when your opponent plays a Compromise card.
>We had no argument, I'm just curious about other people's opinions.

[Description of situation. Ends up with Insect holding a cosmic zap
and another card with two cards consolation due, and wanting to zap
zombie.]

>Question: Is the playing of the Cosmic Zap legal even though
>it was played while there was a lien on my hand yet it was
>the only time I could play the Zap on Zombie?
>
>Again, everyone accepted that I was allowed.  I just want to
>know what others think.

No, it is not legal. (Unless, of course, you wan't to make a house
rule to make it legal.) You may only play a card that breaks the lien.
(Most notably stellar gas.)

Michael W.
From: cs161feu@sdcc10.ucsd.edu (Anthony Minkoff)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
Subject: Re: Two-player game
Date: 10 Nov 92 19:32:20 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <3206@nlsun1.oracle.nl> nroworth@nl.oracle.com (Nick Roworth) writes:
>I have the original Eon set. The Two player rules sound quite interesting.
>Could someone post or E-Mail them to me. If this does not infringe copyright
>that is.

Unfortunately, I'm sure it does.  Would it be copyright infringement
to post (or e-mail) a summary?  I'm sure Nick and other interested
parties could iron out the details themselves (especially since a
lot of details aren't really well ironed out in the Mayfair rules,
they might as well).

Tony
From: nroworth@nl.oracle.com (Nick Roworth)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
Subject: Re: Two-player game
Date: 10 Nov 92 09:09:00 GMT
Organization: Oracle Europe

I have the original Eon set. The Two player rules sound quite interesting.
Could someone post or E-Mail them to me. If this does not infringe copyright
that is.

-- 
Nick Roworth, ORACLE Europe             "Bugs Mr. Rico! Zillions of 'em!"
Rijnzathe 6, NL-3454 PV De Meern        Starship Troopers - Robert A. Heinlein
Phone: +31-3406-94211                     
nroworth@nl.oracle.com
From: irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu (Josh Smith)
Subject: Threats (was Re: Sting)
Originator: irilyth@fenris
Organization: HMC Academic Computing Services
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 05:31:58 GMT

In a prior article, Joe Beck (jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu) writes:

> I think it would work in the opposite manner.  Simply announce:  the
> first person who refuses to let me ally (you may wish to put a good
> reason clause in) will be Stung for the entire rest of the game.  If
> someone insists, carry out your threat.  But it probably won't happen.
> Basically:  the first person to hose me will be hosed badly.  Works wonders.

Sometimes, sometimes not. If the other players' response is "Jeez, what a
jerk! Let's do everything we can to hose him," then you spend your time
hosing one person, while everyone else spends their time hosing you. You end
up most hosed. The other players don't even have to hose you--they can just
threaten, much like you, saying "If you don't retract that threat, we'll all
spend the rest of the game hosing you." They shouldn't have to follow up
more than once or twice.

Note 1: "you" above is generic, and is not meant to imply that you
personally are any more or less of a jerk than anyone else for coming up
with this tactic. (grin) I use "coming up with" loosely, because it is a
common technique among players of many games. Which leads me to...

Note 2: This can happen in just about any game. In Diplomacy, I might tell
my allies that if one of them stabs me, I will devote the rest of the game
to making his life miserable--I'll discard all thoughts of victory, and do
nothing but take revenge on him for his treachery. This might encourage the
others not to stab me, since no one wants to pick up a vendetta against
himself. On the other hand, it might encourage them to get togther and say
"You know, this guy's a real schmuck; let's put our grievances on hold, wipe
him out, and then settle the rest among ourselves." I've seen it happen,
more than once (and never to me--I learn fast, grin).

To quote someone's .signature (Brian Kohn?), "Hope, not fear, is the single
greatest motivator of human action." Making someone think that helping you
will help them is often much more effective than making them think that
hurting you will hurt them, in any game. It works even better if it's true,
though you have to be careful that your joint actions help you _more_ than
they help them--or you're the one being strung along. (grin)
-- 
Josh Smith, User Support Coordinator  ::  irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu
Harvey Mudd College, Claremont CA     ::  consult(std-disclaimer.pl).
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why
several of us died of tuberculosis." -Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 03:14:57 -0500 
From: Elliott Conan Evans <ee0r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Anyone else think some powers are TOO powerful....
Distribution: usa

stranger@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (William John McNelis) writes:
> DEMON: i dont remember how this was phrased, but i think it lets you
> always  take over for the offensive player...
> Doesnt that make it almost impossible for anyone to get a base?!?!?

Yes, until people decide you are too close to winning and start
stomping you down to below three bases. Plus, if you do this
constantly, people may not want to play with you ever again.

> VIRUS: even if you only put two tokens in a  challenge, it makes a 
> whole lot of difference... allies would almost ally with four, since it
> would almost guarantee a win... its like the "dont bother playing a
> card" power.  

Yes, until people decide you are too close to winning and start
stomping you down to below three bases. Also, Kickers go a long way
towards negating the effect of this power. Mostly though, if you have
three tokens in the cone, no allies ("We're not *stupid" is a popular
phrase), and a four in your hand, virus dowsn't really help much.

------
Eeyore
"Even now, this text is affecting you in ways that may not be
 apparent for days, weeks, or even years." -Illuminatus Trilogy
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: cs125a89@eng-nxt10.cso.uiuc.edu (cs125 student)
Subject: Re: BTECH-Gamer/Player  which are you?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:04:19 GMT

In article <1dv3c0INNbmn@golem.wcc.govt.nz>  writes:


>  If I was in  charge of production to upgrade the IS for 3067, I would  
have
> the following priorities for construction.
> 
>  1. DSHS "Freezers" Double Strength Heat Sinks
>  2. XL Engines
>  3. C-3 networks
>  4. Endo-Steel
>  5. Ferro-Fibrous
>  6. Gauss Rifles

Personally, I find Ferro-Fibrous only useful in the IS on light
'Mechs. Anything larger needs the space for other stuff and your 
tonnage savings are pitiful.

C-3 Networks are nice, but all too easily jammed. Remember, that is
five tons spoken for on all your lance commanders, and 10 tons on
your company commanders. What does the Clan need to disrupt this
network? A 1 ton ECM Suite. Most of their large 'Mechs will start
carrying ECM all the time if C3 becomes IS wide.

Gauss Rifles are over-rated. What the IS needs is an energy weapon
counterpart to the Clan Lg. Pulse Laser. This is the deadliest weapon
in the Clan arsenal. That is why my Masakari carries four of these
and a targeting computer ( ECM Suite, a Beagle Probe and TAG round
out the load out). 

Axly
 


Lines: 13
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 92 11:19:51 MST
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: $stephan@sasb (Stephan Fassmann, Software)
Subject: SFB: Tactical Question
Organization: BYU

-Here is a tactical question. What would you do?

-Y176
Your fighter squadron has been ordered to attack an important Fed convoy 
consisting of two small freighters, one large freighter, a POL and an FF. 
What kinds of fighters would you use, and their tactics? 

Thanks.
_____________________________________________________________________
|Stephan Fassmann  Internet: $stephan@sasb.byu.edu  GEnie: S.FASSMANN
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|The Random Acts of Kindness will Continue until Morale Deteriorates|
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: brian@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Brian Youse)
Subject: Re: Games that belong on every gamer's shelf...
Organization: Computer Sciences Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:18:37 GMT

>
>Roger Leroux asks the musical question:  "If you could keep only 10 games on
>your shelf, what would you pick?"  Well...
>

Easy!

1.  ASL Rulebook
2.  Beyond Valor
3.  West of Alamein
4.  Last Hurrah
5.  Hollow Legions
6.  Partisan
7.  Code of Bushido
8.  Gung Ho
9.  Yanks
10.  Red Barricades

	After all, what else is there?

Brian Youse
8)
From: Ralph Dumain <rdumain@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Date: 08 Nov 92 09:48 PST
Subject: CHESS VARIANTS AND GAMES REFERENCE 
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1451400001:000:764
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!rdumain    Nov  8 09:48:00 1992


From: Ralph Dumain <rdumain>
Subject: CHESS VARIANTS AND GAMES REFERENCE FOLLOWUP

WORLD GAME REVIEW is obtainable by subscription only.  It cannot
be found in ordinary bookstores and newsstands and is in fact
known only to a small number of people through word of mouth,
though it is the best (and only) publication of its kind in the
U.S.A.  This is because the U.S., unlike some European countries,
has a small market for board games of skill (as opposed to fantasy
and role-playing games, battle simulations, word games, trivia
games, etc.).  Hopefully, all of the issues are still obtainable.
They are wonderful.  A recent special issue on chess variations is
a must-have.  Contact:  Michael Keller, 3367-I North Chatham Road,
Ellicott City, MD 21042, U.S.A.