HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Newsgroups: comp.bbs.misc,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: New York Times article on BBS's
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:01:27 GMT
Reply-To: 70465.203@compuserve.com
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.

medic@milton.u.washington.edu (Travis Lauricella) writes:

>One I've been wondering about recently is GIF.  The "G" stands for graphic,
>but I've heard it pronounced "JIF" more times than not.  Is there a 
>pronunciation which is considered correct, or are both acceptable?

For what it is worth, The *format* is owned by Compuserve. They just
let folks use it freely. And the standards document says it is pronounced
"jif"...

-- 
Leonard Erickson		      leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com
CIS: [70465,203]			 70465.203@compuserve.com
FIDO:   1:105/56	 Leonard.Erickson@f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org
(The CIS address is checked daily. The others infrequently)
Xref: sparky comp.bbs.misc:391 alt.folklore.computers:11287
From: visbieda@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Christopher Bieda)
Newsgroups: comp.bbs.misc,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: New York Times article on BBS's
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:10:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Jul27.013557.13625@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (David Lesher) writes...

>The NYT also has the only writer that seems to know what he is talking
>about in the worlds that we travel in.

To wit, 

>John Markoff

And John's wife is the author of "Cyberpunk," Katie Hafner.  A most computer-
wise pair, actually.
From: dholland@husc10.harvard.edu (David Holland)
Newsgroups: comp.bbs.misc
Subject: Re: Searchlight
Date: 27 Jul 92 00:45:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc10.DHOLLAND.92Jul26174525
Organization: Harvard Arts and Sciences Computer Services, Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: fnord@panix.com's message of 25 Jul 92 17:22:08 GMT


I think I will throw in here that Searchlight has always struck me as a 
brain-dead Citadel.

Flame away...
--
   - David A. Holland			dholland@husc.harvard.edu

      Feel disillusioned? I've got some great new illusions...
Newsgroups: comp.bbs.misc
From: jvmg9796@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Doc)
Subject: Re: Searchlight sucks
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 21:53:05 GMT

s4uhkm@fnma.COM (Howie Michalski) writes:

>First off, RTFM = Read The F-ing Manual :-)

Oh I have.  I think Frank must have contracted IBM doc writers to write
it.  If I have to explain that to you, never mind. :)

>Someone put a lot of effort into writing SL, and if they're trying to save a 
>little money sending you a 720K diskette more power to 'em!  It gets very
>expensive trying to keep a small business rolling -- especially a SW business

Wrong answer.  It is totally unprofessional to use hole punched 720K disks
to ship software.  They have been shown time and again to be unreliable and
subject to data loss after a while.  If it were a $5 shareware disk I could 
see it, but we're talking about about a product that costs over $100. He
can afford the HD disks.

>not mean it "sucks."  Its incredibly annoying to hear people (and Sysops do 
>this best)
>whine about SW --  If you're really unhappy with the SW - send the author some
>CONSTRUCTIVE critisism.  Don't just slam him for selling you a bogus product - 
But you see, Frank is notorious for ignoring users' / sysops' requests for
enhancements.  He adds to it what HE wants.  Even on the software's 
"mother" board, youre lucky if you can even get an answer out of him.

>BTW, if it "sucked" so terribly - why did you purchase it??????

Because, as I said, from the user's standpoint it is a decent piece of
software.  Very user-friendly.  But once I became an SL sysop, I
realized how sorely it was lacking.

BTW, I never meant to flame any particular person in this thread.  My 
harsh language is directed to SL software, not to any person in this
newsgroup.  And to the person who whined to me in email and sent copies
of my "foul language" to my postmaster, all I can say is -- suck eggs, 
get salmonella, die. :)
From: fnord@panix.com (Cliff Heller)
Newsgroups: comp.bbs.misc
Subject: Re: Searchlight sucks  -  NOT!
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:32:06 GMT
Organization: Right Bleedin' Church of Libertine Obfuscatology

In <Brv58H.54G@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jvmg9796@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Doc) writes:

>peckd@lonexc.rl.af.mil (Daniel P. Peck) writes:

>Firstly, please excuse me in that I dont know what RTFM means, but the context
>of the sentence gives me an idea.  Secondly, are you a USER of SL or a SYSOP?
>There are big differences in the 2 perspectives.  From a user's standpoint
>its not so bad.  The ansi menu system is a Good Thing.  But if youve ever
>tried to run an SL board, you would see just how incredibly poor a piece
>of software it is from the sysop's perspective.  Right down to the fact
>that when you order it on 1.44M 3.5" disk, you get a 720K disk that has been
>punched to allow it to be formatted to 1.44M.  For the goddamn $100+ it
>costs, I think youre entitled to a real HD disk.  

First you indicate your experience in the computer world by revealing your
ignorance of the term RTFM  (which is in every FAQ from alt. to talk.).

Then the only point you can raise against it is about the floppies it comes
on?

Here's some news for you.

In the 3.5" world there is no (none, zilch, zip, nada, nichts, rien, ..)
difference between a 720K disk and a 1.44M.  It is not like the 5.25" world
where there is actually a difference in the media.

Oh, sorry, there is a difference.  The price and the hole in the disk.
Searchlight software decided not to buy in to the hype and pay extra for
high density disks that aren't any different.  They punched the holes in
low density disks and passed the savings on to the users.  Searchlight
costs a fraction of what its competitors charge for the same features.  But
if you'd really like to pay more just so that you get a disk with a
machined hole in it, then I'm sure they could accomodate you.

>I will further expound on the reasons SL sucks if you really want me to.

You may have to.  If the disks was the best you could come up with, then
you probably shouldn't bother.

-- 
    / \      Reverend fnord   	            | "King Kong died for your sins!"
   /   \     fnord@panix.com                | 
  / <0> \                                   | "Don't just eat a hamburger, 
 /_______\   Church of Obfuscatology, Inc.  |  eat the HELL out of it!"
Newsgroups: comp.bbs.misc
From: hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Matt Hucke)
Subject: Re: Netters, Please!  Watch expletives here
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 22:00:17 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.150959.1367@lub001.lamar.edu> lairdpg@lub001.lamar.edu writes:
>Netters,  please!  COMP.BBS.MISC is *NOT* the place to let your language
>run loose!  Most of us seem to have a sense of decency for some of our
>fellow users, but a few don't really care. For those that don't care, please
>do the rest of us a favor and carry your filthy language to alt.filth.nothing.
>and let us discuss *intelligent* stuff here.

I suggest you do the rest of us a favor and carry your attitude to alt.anal.
Stop whining.  If there are certain words you absolutely can't stand to
see, put them in your killfile.  You are *not* Lord and Master of this 
newsgroup; the rest of us have the right to say things the way we want
without your approval.
-- 
And now, Deep Thoughts, by Jack Handey:
    If you ever fall off the Sears Tower, go real limp, so people will think
    you're a dummy, and they'll try to catch you, because hey, free dummy!
hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu             _V_a_l_h_a_l_l_a BBS, 217-352-3682, WWIV4.21, 14.4k
From: lairdpg@lub001.lamar.edu
Newsgroups: comp.bbs.misc
Subject: WHERE TO FIND BBSLISTS FOR ALL AREAS!
Date: 22 Jul 92 18:42:46 +1700
Distribution: world
Organization: Lamar University - Beaumont

In article <l6r5e5INN869@news.bbn.com>, mbeck@bbn.com writes:
> Hi, 
> 	I would like get some numbers for BBS's in Boston, so I can try out my new
> 14,4 modem when I get it. I'll apreciate any help - single numbers, lists, or
> pointers on where to find lists (FTP?). Please send all replies to
> mbeck@bbn.com. I will post the results if I get enough. Thanx,
> 
> 										_Mike_
> 
> --------
> Michael Beck       email: MBECK@BBN.COM or MBECK@VTSSI.VT.EDU
> Phone: (617)873-2605  or  873-2383
>        Office  2/247      Lab 2/273


Anyone interested in finding BBS numbers, there should be BBSLISTS at the
WUARCHIVE.WUSTL.EDU FTP Site for Anon FTP.  They should contain many numbers
from many area codes.  You might start looking for them at--->
mirrors/msdos/bbslists
From: gberigan@cse.unl.edu (Life...)
Newsgroups: comp.bbs.misc
Subject: Re: New York Times article on BBS's
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:16:04 GMT
Organization: Ursa Minor Beta, 402-476-8047 @ 2400

jrjohns@eos.ncsu.edu (JOHN RICHARD JOHNS) writes:
>gberigan@cse.unl.edu (Life...) writes:

>>I pronounce it "sis-ops", but I don't pronounce modem "mah-deem"
>>(modulator-demodulator). :-)

>Very good.  That's because you can pronounce demodulator "dee-mod-you-late-or"
>or you can say "deh-mod-you-late-or."

Can you say "dee-mode-you-lay-tor"?

>Other examples?  When you say
>demonstration, do you say "deem-on-stray-shun"?  How about calling a
>delegation a "Dee-leh-gay-shun"?  The pronounciation of de- can vary between
>dee and deh.  System, on the other hand, I have never heard pronounced
>"Sigh-stem."

The "de" in demodulator is a prefix, whereas the "de" in the other words
you cited was merely the beginning syllable.

% webster de-

de- pf prefix [ME, fr. OF de-, des-, partly fr. L de- from, down, away
   (fr.] de) and partly fr. L dis-; L de akin to OIr di from, OE to- to - more
   at TO, DIS- 1a: do the opposite of {devitalize} 1b: reverse of
   {de-emphasis} 2: remove (a specified thing) from {delouse} : remove from (a
   specified thing) {dethrone} 3: reduce {devalue} 4: something derived from
   (a specified thing) {decompound} : derived from something (of a specified
   nature) {denominative} 5: get off of (a specified thing) {detrain}

I don't pronounce modulator "mode-you-lay-tor" either.  I don't
"mode-ih-fy" my code.  I don't assemble "moh-dels".  I'm not proposing
the "moh-der-ay-shun" of comp.binaries.apple2.

I do however use a "moh-dehm", not a "mah-deem".

>- John

Besides, "mah-deem" is too reminiscent of the movie Dune. :-)

-- gberigan@cse.unl.edu (Life...)

///   ____   \\\  "Sorry, did I say something wrong?  Pardon me for
| |/ /    \ \| |   breathing, which I never do anyway so I don't even 
 \\_|\____/|_//    know why I bother to say it oh God I'm so depressed.
     \_)\\/        Here's another one of those self-satisfied doors.
       `-'         Life... don't talk to me about life...."
Newsgroups: comp.bbs.misc
Subject: News-Reader needed for Maximus!!
From: cvafyshb@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu
Date: 23 Jul 92 01:06:20 PST
Organization: California State Polytechnic University, Pomona
Nntp-Posting-User: cvafyshb

I'm looking for a nice news reader which I can tie into my BBS (Maximus).  It
should support a scrolling tag marker on the side where a user can hit return
on a particular group, see the messages, then hit return on one of those and be
able to read it, very similar to the one for VAX/VMS..  I have Waffle setup in
the mean time but it's reading leaves a lot to be desired...  Is there somthing
out there already made that I can use or do I have to whip up the 'ol TC++
compiler and smack some code together? (NOT!)


Newsgroups: comp.bbs.misc,alt.folklore.computers
From: leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: New York Times article on BBS's
Reply-To: 70465.203@compuserve.com
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 04:15:25 GMT

unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (tuu) writes:


>In article <mtpins.711668470@icaen.uiowa.edu> mtpins@icaen.uiowa.edu (Michael T Pins) writes:
>}Keep in mind that most computer "terms" are concatenated abbrev's.
>}In this case, SYStem OPerator.  Pronounce them accordingly.

>	I really dislike this argument, but I used to use it myself....

>	I dislike it because it's NOT true.  There are many many terms that
>are abbreviations/acronyms that are *not* pronounced the way in which the
>original words are.  There are only two I can think of at the moment, one
>of which is a computer term.

>	BASIC -- if the rule was true, we'd pronounce it "bahsick" rather
>		than "baysick"

>	AMFAR -- American Foundation for Aids Research (how in hell this 
>			popped into my mind I do not know).. But if the
>		rule was true, it'd be pronounced "amfair" rather than 
>		"amfar"

Neither of your counter examples applies. They are both *acronyms*
constructed from the initial letters of a phrase. In such cases, prounciation
is pretty much determined by what it looks like.

On the other hand, "sysop" is formed by combining *syllables*. It's in
effect a contraction of the words "system operator". And the path may 
have been that system got frequently shortened to "sys" and operator
got shortened to "op". *Then* they got combined.

-- 
Leonard Erickson		      leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com
CIS: [70465,203]			 70465.203@compuserve.com
FIDO:   1:105/56	 Leonard.Erickson@f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org
(The CIS address is checked daily. The others infrequently)
Newsgroups: comp.bbs.misc
From: laurelh@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Laurel Hellerstein)
Subject: Re: Computing Across America
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 14:37:27 GMT

In article <rdippold.712035975@cancun> rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:


>In fact, we're his San Diego connection - he uses our satellite
>communications system as his Internet connection.  That little white
>dome at the back of the bike (if they showed the bike) contains our
>little satellite dish.  We hooked him up about a year or two, I
>believe.  He can get messages from anywhere, and with the recent
>addition to America Online of an internet Gateway, there as well.
>Compuserve has had one for a long time, and plenty of other places.
>MCI mail, sprint mail, BIX, heck, you name it, except prodigy, and
>that's not a huge loss.
>

So Ron-

Are you going to give out his address?  (and thanks for clarifying I
am not a fool!)
-- 
  %%%%%%%%%%%%---------------------------------------------%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
    Laurel Hellerstein,Ph.D             Laurelh@titan.ucc.umass.edu
    Manager, Housing Services           (413) 545-4638
    Cable Network                       FAX (413) 545-2232
Newsgroups: comp.bbs.misc
From: radel@bach.udel.edu (Todd Radel)
Subject: VBBS 5.51 now available!
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 05:15:06 GMT

The latest release of the Virtual BBS/NET software, version 5.51, is now
available for anonymous ftp from hunk.asel.udel.edu, in directory
/pub/vbbs.  It should also be at nic.funet.fi in /pub/msdos/bbs/virtualbbs
in a few days.

The new release adds an entirely revamped database system, more config
options, plus the usual speedups and enhancements.  Users of older
versions *must* ugprade to 5.51, as the VNET.EXE program has changed.

Cheers,
Todd


-- 
Todd Radel                   | "I obscenity in the milk of all," Agustin said,
CIS/English undergrad        | "if it does not seem like a lunatic asylum in
University of Delaware       | here." -- Hemingway, _For Whom the Bell Tolls_
A.I. duPont Institute, 1600 Rockland Road, Wilmington, DE  19899
Newsgroups: comp.bbs.misc
From: pt@geovision.gvc.com (Paul Tomblin)
Subject: Re: Pronouncing GNU (was Re: New York Times article on BBS's)
Reply-To: pt@geovision.gvc.com
Organization: Not officially GeoVision Systems Inc., Ottawa, Ontario
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 16:46:02 GMT

pfaffman@pilot.njin.net (Jay Pfaffman) writes:

>hobbit@ac.dal.ca writes:

>>What I'm curious about, is how do you folks pronounce 'GNU'?  
>>'Nu' is proper (for the animal, anyway) but i've never heard anything 
>>but 'ge-nu' used for the software.

>Some official GNU doc that I read suggested that the G be pronounced,
>"to avoid horrible confusion."  I've always said GNU (one syllable),
>although Gee New could work too.

I've always pronounced it the same way Flanders and Swan pronounce it in the
song "I'm a GNU", on thier album "At the Drop of a Hat".

I'm a G-Nu,
a g-nother G-Nu.

-- 
Paul Tomblin, pt@geovision.gvc.com or {uunet,revcan}!geovision!pt
(This is not an official opinion of GeoVision Systems Inc.)
"No matter what you've lost - be it a home, a love, a friend - like the 'Mary
Ellen Carter' rise again." - Stan Rogers - "Mary Ellen Carter"
Newsgroups: comp.bbs.misc
From: ap429@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jerome Grimmer)
Subject: Re: Netters, Please!  Watch expletives here
Followup: dev.null
Reply-To: dev_null@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jerome Grimmer)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 23:56:55 GMT


In a previous article, hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Matt Hucke) says:

The previous quotes were deleted due to them being to anal.  If you wish to
follow up, follow up to /dev/null.

-- 
"I'm the Sage!  I know *everything*!//Like, okay.  How, like, does BitNet oper-
ate?\\Operate, schmoperate.  The programmers were drunk out of their minds when
they designed it.  If it wasn't for m00sey intervention it wouldn't work at all
From "Rad" ep. 58 by Swede@Drycas.Bitnet. Email ap429@po.cwru.edu 4 more info.
Newsgroups: comp.bbs.misc
From: cslewis@vesta.unm.edu ()
Subject: Problems running boards with controversial stuff?
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 06:56:47 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Summary: Legal probs? Harassment?

I will soon be starting a BBS and have some questions for sysops
who operate BBS's which deal with controversial things (hacker
stuff, adult material, far-out politics...)

Have you encountered any legal harassment?  Or have the feds mellowed
out and learned something since Operation Sun Devil?

Have you encountered any anger/harassment from narrow minded people
who can't accept that other people believe different things?  Any
threatening letters?  Damage to your system...?

What has the experience been like overall?  Difficult...?

I look forward to hearing from others who have dealt with these issues.
Post replies, or send e-mail.

Thanks,

Scott Lewis
cslewis@vesta.unm.edu


-- 
---------------------
Scott Lewis
cslewis@vesta.unm.edu
---------------------
Newsgroups: comp.bbs.misc,alt.folklore.computers
From: tony@disk.uucp (tony)
Subject: Re: How to Pronounce 'MODEM'
Organization: Digital Information Systems of KY
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:46:04 GMT

cshort@nmsu.edu (Spmg*d, Lord of Potted Meat Product) writes:

>Alan> (with apologies to those who have to pay to download this drivel...)

	Some actually have to pay for this?  Do they pay per "full message"
or by "number of blocks" ??  
I just ask because sometimes I think I'm doing someone a favor, like emailing
a 100K anonymous ftp list (because they ask where they can get such a list).
But if they don't know how long this list is going to be, is it conceivable
I am doing them a disservice because of the rates they have to pay?
I just pay a monthly fee, are there some people that have to pay more than
just a monthly fee?

	-=- Tony Safina -=- disk!tony@uunet.UU.NET -=-

Xref: sparky comp.bbs.misc:270 alt.folklore.computers:10988
From: evan@gauss.math.brown.edu (Evan M. Simpson)
Newsgroups: comp.bbs.misc,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: New York Times article on BBS's
Date: 23 Jul 1992 05:54:04 GMT
Organization: Brown University Math Department
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: gauss.math.brown.edu

In article <medic.711862598@milton>, medic@milton.u.washington.edu (Travis Lauricella) writes:
|> One I've been wondering about recently is GIF.  The "G" stands for graphic,
|> but I've heard it pronounced "JIF" more times than not.  Is there a 
|> pronunciation which is considered correct, or are both acceptable?

   This was discussed extensively, not long ago, with the apparent conclusion
that the Compu$erve-official pronunciation is 'jif'. Despite this, many people
(including myself) prefer 'gif' on the grounds that GIF stands for
"Girls In Files".

   On an unrelated note: Anybody else out there play Wumpus on the KIM? With
only a hex keypad and a four-LED display the KIM could still be loads of fun.
-- 
Evan Simpson               My .sig got stale, so I had to throw it out.  
Brown U. Math Dept.
evan@gauss.math.brown.edu  
Newsgroups: comp.bbs.misc
From: colello@cheshire.oxy.edu (Robert Colello)
Subject: Re: No Toll Numbers?
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 07:03:10 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.051320.3966@intelhf.hf.intel.com> nuffy@intelhf.hf.intel.com (John Hagler) writes:
>I recently saw an ad in a computer mag. for a BBS that had what I
>Think was an (818) area code. It said that thier were no long distance charges
>for calling. This is new to me. Is their a specific arewa code that is a no toll call? I may be incorrect about the BBS's area code but I think it was some
>thing lioke that. (No it wasn't a 1-800 number)
>Thanks E-mail or post. Thanks again.
>Nuffy@hfglobe.intel.com

I don't know exactly what BBS you are referring to, but here in Los Angeles
there are 3 area codes (213,310,818).  So to call accross the city is a toll
call for many, thus the bigger BBS's have lines which transfer callers from
one area to the other (i.e. the site is on the border of the area code zones)
which allows the caller to call that number, then transfer via another local
call to the main computer.  Thus two local calls = one free long distance call.
So the ad was probably meant for people in the 818 area code who want to access
a 213 area BBS.  
 
Well, at least that's my guess.

Bob Colello
colello@cheshire.oxy.edu
  

Xref: sparky comp.bbs.misc:303 alt.folklore.computers:11070
From: liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz (Liam Greenwood)
Newsgroups: comp.bbs.misc,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re:  New York Times article on BBS's
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:31:56 GMT+12
Distribution: world
Organization: It's Home, really...

In article <14kv1kINNg06@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (tuu) writes:
>
>In article <mtpins.711668470@icaen.uiowa.edu> mtpins@icaen.uiowa.edu (Michael T Pins) writes:
>}Keep in mind that most computer "terms" are concatenated abbrev's.
>}In this case, SYStem OPerator.  Pronounce them accordingly.
>
>       I really dislike this argument, but I used to use it myself....
>
>       I dislike it because it's NOT true.  There are many many terms that
>are abbreviations/acronyms that are *not* pronounced the way in which the
>original words are.  There are only two I can think of at the moment, one
>of which is a computer term.
>
>       BASIC -- if the rule was true, we'd pronounce it "bahsick" rather
>               than "baysick"
>
>       AMFAR -- American Foundation for Aids Research (how in hell this
>                       popped into my mind I do not know).. But if the
>               rule was true, it'd be pronounced "amfair" rather than
>               "amfar"
    But your two example are ETLAs, not concatenated abbrevs so the
    pronunciation rules are different. TLAs and ETLAs are spoken however
    is convenient ie BASIC is pronounced as the word, whereas TLA is
    said Tee El Ah (...or whatever?). SYSOP is two abbreviations that
    sorta run together when spoken, 'lazy talk'.

    All IMHO, as always.
>--
>/unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu   used ADB trackball WANTED          Apple II Forever!\
>\Mail me:Get INFOCOM GAMES RERELEASED,ULT VI GS done,for UNIX GS&CHEAP CD info/
>What the world needs now is another folk singer like I need a hole in my head.

--
 Liam Greenwood ------ liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz ------ Wanganui, N.Z.
                Don't tell my Mother I'm a programmer,
              she thinks I'm a piano player in a brothel

Newsgroups: comp.bbs.misc,alt.folklore.computers