HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Junger@samsara.law.cwru.edu (Peter D. Junger)
Subject: Re: Kermit and down-loading from PACS
Organization: Case Western Reserve University Law School
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 18:58:27 GMT

In article <NOTABENE%92082602445380@TAUNIVM> Joel Lidov <JBLQC@CUNYVM> writes:
>Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 92 19:37:46 EDT
>From:         Joel Lidov <JBLQC@CUNYVM>
>Subject:      Kermit

>Gerald Schlaback correctly points to the fact that Kermit scripts don't
>know anything about terminal emulation; they just read the incoming data
>stream, escape codes and all.  This is not a problem when setting up a
>dialogue (for sign-on, for example), since it simply looks for the characters
>you want, but the screen-dump would be meaningless to a script, since it has
>no concept of a screen.

>Session logging also logs everything, so that the resulting file isn't a pure
>data file, but can be replayed as a terminal session.  If your library has
>a line-by-line mode (no emulation), I suppose that would work.

I am not sure that I understand the context of this discussion, but I 
suspect it may have to do with a problem that I recently suffered from 
using, not Kermit, but the version of Telnet that is supplied to us at 
CWRU.  Our new electonic library catalogue--or PAC--is an INNOPAC system 
which requires the user to run a VT100 terminal or terminal emulator, and 
when one records (logs) a session the resulting record is filled with VT100 
droppings (escape codes) and is unreadable.  This same behaviour is 
exhibited by NOTIS electronic catalogs and at least one other whose name I 
forget.  At CWRU they have installed an INNOPAC function called EXPORT that 
allows one to download bibliographic records without the escape codes, but 
one still cannot keep a readable record of one's search.  I have therefore
written a filter which filters out (after interpreting where necessary) the 
VT100 escape codes.

	The filter seems to work, though it could use a few more features 
which I will add when I get time.  If anyone would like to beta-test it--
what a horrible verb!--I'll be happy to tell you how to get a copy. 


Peter D. Junger

Case Western Reserve University Law School, Cleveland, OH
Internet:  JUNGER@SAMSARA.LAW.CWRU.Edu -- Bitnet:  JUNGER@CWRU
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 92 08:26:36 EST
From:         "Gerald W. Schlabach" <GSCHLABA@IRISHVMA>
Subject:      Re: NBI business practices
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene
              31 Aug 92 00:07:36 EDT from <rbinkley@UWOVAX.UWO.CA>


A month or so ago someone offered to write a letter of concern to NBI, and
give others the chance to sign it.  I suggest that Cliff's ideas form the basis
of a diplomatic, fundamentally supportive, yet firm and no-nonsense letter
of concern to NBI.  Suggested process:
    1. Someone posts a rough draft.
    2. One week is allowed for comments and discussion on-forum.
    3. The original drafter posts a revised and final draft.
    4. Forum members notify drafter, off-list if they choose, if they want
       to attach their names.
    5. Once responses stop trickling in, drafter sends to NBI and lets the
       forum know that the letter is on the way.
    6. We move on to other discussions, holding nothing against signers or
       non-signers.

Yours for peace, justice, free speech, and constructive public discourse
in the realm of the Great Dragonfly,

Gerald W. Schlabach
University of Notre Dame
Schlabach.1@nd.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  Jnet%"NOTABENE@TAUNIVM"
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 92 16:50:00 EST
From:         DICK@SIENA
Subject:      Re: Letter to NBI
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

Well, it is that time of month, so why not! Let's castigate NBI. I have utterly
no religious fervor towards the company and I am furious about their less than
frank assessment of the eschatological shipping date. As a user of Lingua, I
desperately want a sophisticated WP program that can handle Hebrew, Greek, and
transliterated Akkadian and Arabic all within the same program (no added-on
modules). I dropped the Ibycus some years ago because it couldn't do these
things. I don't like the MAC. Is there anything else out there? I go to SBL
meetings and sofar I have not seen anything that even attempts to do what I
need. So I am interested in NBI's success, not because all those good people
need jobs but because I would like their product (in working order thank you).
I know that WP would have no interest whatsoever in a Hebrew font; few banks
are going to lend money to a company that promises better Akkadian
transliteration. So I don't see where else to turn. Microsoft et al. can be
just as arrogant etc.
        Now to return to the "core" of the problem...Is it easy to convert a
dot matrix Lingua (non-proportional) font to a HP Lingua (non-proportional)
font? Are there companies that can easily do such a translation? I still need
my Lingua HP non-proportional font...one with teh Lingua characters.
        Michael Dick
        DICK@SIENA
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  IN%"Notabene@taunivm.bitnet"
Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 92 09:20:00 PDT
From:         CAMPBELL@ACUSD
Subject:      OS/2
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene


Hello everyone.  I've got the new machine, a 486/33 with 8MB RAM and
a 200MB hard drive, all primed and ready for OS/2, which according
to what I've read in the popular press (and around town on several
BBS's) is just what I need for DOS multitasking and a ticket to the
Brave New World of 32-bit processing (when I need and can get 32-bit
applications).  Yet I read on and on and discover many complaints
about OS/2:  bugs, clumsy and frustrating installation process, and
(worst of all) the occasional trashing of the hard disk's FAT, etc.

My question:  anyone here using OS/2 with NB?  What wisdom can you offer?
Should I be a pioneer (albeit one of the one million, if IBM's figures
are correct), or should I play it safe and stick with MS-DOS 5.0?

I'd ask more specific questions, but I'm not there yet....

E-mail me personally or post to the net if you think it's worthwhile.

Gardner Campbell
Campbell@acusd.bitnet
Campbell@usdcsv.acusd.edu (Internet)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 92 08:44:56 PDT
From:         Stephen Davison <davison@MIZAR.USC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Jasper's list of bugs and general whining
Comments: To: Nota Bene List <NOTABENE%TAUNIVM.BITNET@vm.usc.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

> Michael J. writes:-
> >
> [lot of stuff deleted]
> >
> > 10) A problem that has existed for the last two versions has
> > not gone away: changing print mode by word (CTRL-SHFT 1,2,3,
> > etc.) works for every mode except underline. I have found
> > this with different versions of NB, with and without
> > Desqview, on different machines, including pure bred IBMs.
> > Why don't you fix this already?
> There's an old adage: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" :-)
> I have never seen this fail to work!
> I would guess it is a fault/corruption of the keyboard file but how have
> you kept the same keyboard file across so many versions/machines?  Maybe it
> is in the us.kbd file and not the UK.kbd file which we use.
> --
> Neil Brooks, University of Exeter Computer Unit
> Electronic mail: Brooks@uk.ac.exeter
> Phone: (+44) 392 263946
> Postal Address: Laver Building, North Park Road, Exeter EX4 4QE, Devon, U.K.
>
>
I've never known this not to work either.  As a consultant in NY I
used NB on a wide variety of machines and noticed idiosyncracies that
varied from machine to machine.  Maybe that is one of the reasons that
some bugs never seem to go away for some; it is hard for NBI to fix
something they can't replicate.

Stephen Davison
davison@usc.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 92 17:50:31 EDT
From:         "Paul J. Bodin" <pjb3@CUNIXB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Default Settings in NB4
Comments: To: Nota Bene List <NOTABENE%TAUNIVM.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

Herb Basser writes:

> using startup.int on the beta versions, I simply put in the driver i
> wanted and have no problem loading the toshiba driver. incidentally,
> manual selections of that driver gave me path error messages which
> startup.int does not.

Obviously in some cases and with some of the beta versions this will
work.  I did roughly the same with one beta version, after adding the
appropriate settings to the NBCUSTOM.SET.  A subsequent beta, set up
exactly the same way, got terminally confused by this fiddling.  With
some versions (and some printers) it will work, with others it won't.
Be warned that printer support in NB4 is much more complicated than
with NB3.  The plus side is that, as of the most recent beta version,
printer setup and configuration is totally automatic and seems to work
quite well.

Considering the above, and reports that some configurations of NB4 are
already being delivered, I still believe it is the better, more
prudent course to simply wait until the final release version arrives.

___________________________________________________________________________
Paul J. Bodin                         Internet: pjb3@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Union Theological Seminary               smail: 435-52nd Street
(718) 439-3549                                  Brooklyn, NY 11220
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  Jnet%"NOTABENE@TAUNIVM"
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 92 10:32:00 EST
From:         DICK@SIENA
Subject:      RE: NB and Desqview
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

Yes,
        I too have discovered a series of bugs. I think I have a "final copy".
As a beta tester I begged them for a a copy sent overnight UPS back in mid
August. My copy is dated 8/13. Let's list these little devils to get them
expunged: (I'd rather squash bugs right now than NBI)
I have Lingua (which I use mostly) on a 486. Here are my top bugs:
1. Yesterday I tried to save a large file to disk; there was insufficient space
on the disk (I forget about those .bak files!). The error message was WRITE
ERROR. I then erased some files and then saved successfully. All day I worked,
saved, and backed up. At the last minute I realized I had lost about ten pages
from the end of the document. That truncated document was copied into all my
saves.  Apparently that bad save attempt caused me to lose my RAM drive
overflow and thus part of my file. That should never happen. What's wrong with
the simple DOS error BEFORE you attempt to save: INSUFFICIENT DISK SPACE.

2. When you try to bold a word that has "constructed characters in it" (e.g. S
with a dot under it) using control shift 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 etc., it will stop at
the constructed letter and not act on the entire word. For that you have to
block of the word with F2 and then cntrl #.

3. The dictionary (speller) cannot deal with smart quotes (control ").

4. Sometimes (I haven't figured out the pattern) when you do a letter F6 and
the W, D, B or whatever to construct a letter, I also get an extra letter
afterwards.

5. I still get an occasional US.1 delta and CR when I try to open up a
footnote with F3. This was a regular bug before, but now it only happens once
in 50 notes. (You can go into expanded mode and delete this garbage).

6. There are problems in my version with the printer driver for HP softfonts.
The program calls up the wrong .ovl file; but I think they corrected this
before shipping.

        Michael Dick
        DICK@SIENA
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Date:         Sat, 29 Aug 92 10:49:50 EST
From:         "Gerald W. Schlabach" <GSCHLABA@IRISHVMA>
Subject:      RE: alleged arrivals
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

On Sat, 29 Aug 92 11:29:00 EDT <ITF@PSUVM> said:
>Can _anybody_ on this list _ever_ remember receiving software without
>documentation, except for $15 programs where the documentation was a file on
>the disk?  I think that flaming and fuming are appropriate, especially when
>the manufacturer sets up a situation where calls have to be made to figure
>things out and then they say they are having a hard time getting things out
>the door and answering all the calls at the same time.  This is not the way
>you get people to recommend your product!
>
>Allen (itf@psuvm.psu.edu)

I usually consider myself among the patient true believers and cheer for
Dorothy Day's defenses.  But this time I have to second Allen's analysis.
Even the trust of a true believer is beginning to fray.  If this goes on
much longer we may have to start discussing Apples, not apples.

Gerald W. Schlabach
University of Notre Dame
Schlabach.1@nd.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  Jnet%"NOTABENE@TAUNIVM"
Date:         Sat, 29 Aug 92 12:24:00 EST
From:         DICK@SIENA
Subject:      RE: alleged arrivals
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

If people will be a little more patient--it is NOT true that you receive no
documentation. Most of your documentation is sent, certainly enough to get
working.
        Michael Dick
        DICK@SIENA
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 92 22:41:33 EDT
From:         Michael T Bradley Jr <mtb3@CUNIXF.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: NB4/Orbis Shipping
Comments: To: Nota Bene List <NOTABENE%TAUNIVM.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

I happened to phone NBI today (25 August) and was told something
similar to what was reported earlier on this list -- that is, it
may ship next week.  My concern at this point was that the
individual I spoke with indicated that there was an "file" that
was still in the works which would enable NB 4.0 to work properly
with the current version of Ibid.  Could the beta-testers on the
list elaborate?  Does NB 4.0 interact properly with Ibid./Ibid.
Plus; or, are there still some problems that we should
anticipate?  If there are bugs, of what nature might they be?

M. T. Bradley, Jr.   ||   E-mail:  mtb3@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu
Dept. of Religion    ||   S-Mail:  P.O.D. C, Blacksburg, VA 24063
Columbia University  ||   V-mail:  (703) 951-3253
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 92 10:05:39 EDT
From:         Robert Braham <RMB@CUNYVMS1>
Subject:      Re: Mail problems.....
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

> . . . handled by drums and smoke signals.  A strong wind (and this _is_
>hurricane season) can hold things up for days, cause messages to
>duplicate or arrive out of order, or even garble them so thoroughly
>that complaints about late shipments appear to be recipes for apple
>crisp.

>Peter Binkley

Just today I received from some mailserv or other a *long* letter
regarding George McGovern's position on women and child bearing (i think
that was the gist of it).  I sadly couldn't decipher who the original
recepient was supposed to be.

Seven years ago I got a chilling, horrible suicide telephone call
from a woman ("Ive cut my wrists, you bastard . . . ").
 After having the police break down the door
of a girl I was currently dating (and frantically calling two recent
ex-es), at the end of the day, the phone call was revealed to be,
apparently, a wrong number.  Interpret this as you may.


Robert Braham
Graduate School of the City University of New York
Bitnet:   RMB@cunyvms1.bitnet
Internet: RMB@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via:         UK.AC.EX.CEN;  1 SEP 92 10:46:49 BST
X-Mailer:    ELM [version 2.3 PL0]
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 92 09:45:43 GMT
From:         M.E.Bennun@CEN.EX.AC.UK
Subject:      Re: Arrivals?!
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene
              30, 92 2:20 pm

>
> In the meantime I am looking forward to trying Mr. Bennun's apple
> chutney recipe in the next couple of weeks, as Southern Illinois
> apples come online.  Beta testing?
>             Geoff Nathan   <ga3662@siucvmb.siu.edu>
>

I'll throw rotting apples at anyone who ever calls me "Mr. Bennun"
again on this list.... and I have them in thousands.

Right?

Right!

 ---------------
Mervyn E. Bennun, Law Department, University of Exeter
Phone: (+44) (0) 392 263 161
Postal Address: Amory Building, Rennes Drive, Exeter EX4 4RJ, Devon, U.K.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 92 10:05:02 EDT
From:         Robert Braham <RMB@CUNYVMS1>
Subject:      "Pre-release" and "final" NB4: More shenanigans?
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

About a month ago I received, on request, a "pre-release"
version of NB4, shipped and labeled as such.  A week or
so ago, I received, unrequested and by certified mail, no less,
what appears to be the same package (some of the disks have
printed, rather than hand-written labels).  I haven't
installed it, presuming it is the same version.

I also chalked up NBI's shipping of the second kit as more
signs of general mayhem in their order fulfillment realm,
but the recent spate of "arrivals" is particularly worrisome.
A letter today writes of his "non-pre-release" version being
unable to accommodate previous IBID files by default; now,
that to me is an acknowledged feature of the echt "pre-release"
version.  It seems to me that perhaps a number of these could
be catalogued, and compared w/ those features in the so-called
"non-pre-release" versions now cropping up, in Europe and elsewhere.

Could NBI have sunk to a new level of prevarication and/or
expediency, and is actually shipping such relatively hobbled
and conceivably buggy versions (complete w/ no proper docs) as
what was previously called "pre-release" and now, voila, is
"final release" versions?  (And I refuse to accept the excuse
that "it is our fault, we asked them to hurry it up and now we've
got it [eat it raw]" ... . . ).

It is just one further reflection on the quality of NBI as a business
that such practices could even be imputed to them.   I hope I
am wrong.

Robert Braham
Graduate School of the City University of New York
Bitnet:   RMB@cunyvms1.bitnet
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Date:         Sun, 23 Aug 92 02:29:32 EDT
From:         Robert Braham <RMB@CUNYVMS1>
Subject:      "non-displayable ascii" aka e-o-f; thanks
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene


To Dorothy, Bob, Allan, Itamar, and Paul (who rolled his own .exe stripper):

thanks for the info and fix on the rogue end-of-file characters
put in by ProComm.  This has taught me that I need to spend a minor
amount of $ and avoid a lot of trouble: the buerg LIST hex viewer
has a "search" feature, so I could find it, but then not do anything
about it; the ancient version of PCTools I have can edit in hex mode,
but I had no way of finding the e-o-f buried w/i 410K worth of data.
Plus nocz2.com is worth getting for the wittiest and shortest .doc
text I have ever seen [excerpt: "Why are ctrl-z's put in files? So
I could write this program . . . "]

Robert Braham
Bitnet:   RMB@cunyvms1.bitnet
Internet: RMB@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  Jnet%"NOTABENE@TAUNIVM"
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 92 15:38:00 EST
From:         DICK@SIENA
Subject:      Re: snafu apercu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene


I accept your challenge as "lord of Snafu". Yesterday evening on my home
machine I deinstalled Lingua merely by choosing a different symbol set. So
today I came into our Departmental office and put OS/2 on our Department 486.
I'll leave taht up to your imagination! I now have one utterly useless machine
and a wasted 6 hours. Yes I called IBM, after 1 1/2 hrs they called back and
told me that OS/2 has troubles with a redirect to COM3 but offered some changes
in their massive config.sys file. No dice. I've tried all afternoon to print
and OS/2 spools each of these attempts even through a hard reboot! I try to
reboot and teh first thing it says is printjob8 can't print. Next I'll try
unplugging the machine and kicking it to get those #$%$ print jobs out of its
queu. I have a call in now to IBM asking how to get that damn system off of my
machine. If I could only get rid of those config.sys and autoexec.bat
files....I'll try it thru NotaBene.
        Lord of Snafu
        DICK@SIENA
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 92 21:41:00 EDT
From:         ITF@PSUVM
Subject:      Re: Letter to NBI
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

I think that wishing NBI to go out of business is a bit much (and I have been o
ne of the most outspoken concerning their business practices).  They certainly
have behaved poorly, and some sort of apology is due.  At the same time, it is
also true that Microsoft and the other manufacturers have pulled (and continue
to pull, did everyone see the story that there are undocumented window calls in
 Word that were not shared with other widow software manufacturers?) their own
stunts.  I do not want to see NBI go out of business.  What I do want is
honesty, and less defensiveness on the part of the company and its spokespeople
 on this line.  I have also noticed that the distribution of this list goes to
under 150 sites, and I am not sure how many people read it at each site.  If th
ey did a better job, there would be more users on this list as well as in gener
al.  I think some material "thank you for your patience" plus a debugged and us
able program on a date that they intend on keeping is not too much to ask.  I a
lso think that the letter should still be written.

ALlen (itf@psuvm.psu.edu)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 92 15:39:08 IST
From:         "Itamar Even-Zohar, Porter Chair of Semiotics" <B10@TAUNIVM>
Subject:      Re: Letter to NBI
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene
              1 Sep 92 12:35:23 GMT from <pbrown@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>

There are over 330 subscribers, but apparently many of them prefer
the 'nomail' setting, which allows ordering the backlogs from time
to time. Many people stay only as long as their probems aren't solved;
once their systems work to their liking, they are too busy to go on
reading about various problems which are *neige d'antan* to them.
This is how it goes with all lists.

Some time ago I was looking on this list for volunteer(s) to take over
the list. I don't really know for how long I can stay responsible for it.
Though in principle I do no editing job, I get piles of garbage every
day, i.e., returned mail, from people who have forgotten to unsubscribe,
or whose 'boxes' are filled up, or who have moved, etc. I also
more or less regularly maintain the archives. I am not complaining,
but with my overload of work, it really would be a great relief
if some younger colleague stepped instead, with a more centrally
located mainframe (though for some people Jerusalem is
the center of the world, and Tel Aviv is not far from it...).
After all, I've taken care of this operation since 1988.

I think that it would be a pity to close down this line of exchange.
I have learnt a lot from it, and have got to learn interesting
people. Even if the number of users drop, I would not be worried,
unless it dried up completely.

Itamar E-Z
Overworked Guru
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 92 16:12:22 IST
From:         "Itamar Even-Zohar, Porter Chair of Semiotics" <B10@TAUNIVM>
Subject:      Re: OS/2
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

There is also a 4OS2 available for OS2. Surely an improvement even
on OS2.

Itamar E-Z
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
X-Envelope-to: NOTABENE@TAUNIVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"NOTABENE@TAUNIVM.BITNET"
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 92 11:50:00 EST
From:         STRAUSS@UNCA
Subject:      Re: Library Master (was Re: Life after NotaBene)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.notabene

A brief question: NB 3.x was written, basically, by XYQuest. Nicht wahr?
So that NB 4.0 is the first time NB has tackled a word processor on their
own. Can this be part of the problem?

Bob Strauss
UNC-Asheville
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU