HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tt@wag.caltech.edu (Toshi Takeuchi)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Gene Wolfe's New Sun stuff (jungles in the Garden)
Date: 4 Oct 1992 00:58:10 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: sgi1.wag.caltech.edu

merritt@milton.u.washington.edu (Ethan Merritt) writes about the
jungle area in the garden:

	I could never tie up the loose threads in this one.  I half suspect
that Wolfe was originally heading in another direction in his conception of
the panoramas, but changed his mind.  For what it's worth I think that the
reason that the inhabitants were semi-oblivious to Severian & Co. was that
(1) each panorama sort of exuded a proper mind-set for its setting (2)
susceptible passers by were taken up by this and became effectively part
of the stage set. I.e. I don't think the people were true originals seen
via time travel, I think they were contemporaries of Severian who had 
gotten caught up in an Ernest Hemmingway look-alike contest imposed by the
stage set.

	I agree with this to an extent.  The strange thing, however, is
	that Severian saw the "flyer", which I believe was a single
	propeller airplane, which was delivering mail.

	Those people in the hut were then expecting mail and other
	goods from the plane.

	I think the place was meant to be ambiguous, but the people
	in the set certainly seemed like early 20th century jungle
	settlers, and the single prop plane seems to show that
	a glass dome may not have existed, unless he was having
	a mutual hallucination with the others...

	Here's a question in return: At least one of the stories which
Severian relates from his little brown book is recognizable - that of
Theseus returning without changing his sails.  Can the other stories be
matched up with tales we already know?

					Ethan A Merritt


	Hmm, I think the quote from Jonas should have been a hint
	for those of you more literary types.  He said something like,

	"The king would knew that son would come back to Athens 
	 with black sails if he failed..."
	
	Toshi
	tt@wag.caltech.edu
From: rene@iesd.auc.dk (Rene Boe Soerensen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Looking for 2 books: help on author & title needed.
Date: 29 Sep 92 11:49:01 GMT
Organization: Mathematics and Computer Science, Aalborg University


This weekend a friend of mine and I started to discuss some of the
fantasy and science-fiction books we have read. I told him of two
books I have read, of which I couldn't remember the author and the
title, but only some of the plot. Now I'm hoping that some of you out
there can help me to find these books again.

The first book was about a second rate actor who gets drafted into
acting as President/Ambassador/Businessman when this P./A./B. gets
kidnapped, since he has a striking similarity to this P./A./B. and
this P./A./B. has to appear before the public. This is done to gain
time to find the real P./A./B.

The second book was about a library ship traveling between a group of
planets in different solar-systems carrying the collected knowledge of
these systems. As they approach a planet they haven't visited for some
time they realize that a dictator has taken over, and a young
apprentice librarian gets caught into the struggle for freedom on this
planet.

I read these books at least 5 years ago, possibly up to 10 years ago
and I think the books were written in the 70'es.

I hope this rings a bell for some of you, so you can enlighten me on
the author an title of these books.

I would prefer any replies by e-mail to: rene@iesd.auc.dk

thanx
	  Rene Boe
--
 | Rene Boe Sorensen              |    ////   | E-mail : rene@iesd.auc.dk     |
 | Department of Computer Science |   c-OO    |                               |
 | Aalborg University (AUC)       |       \   | contraria sunt complementa    |
 | Denmark                        |      -    |              Niels Bohr       |
From: jpesonen@viikki.Helsinki.FI (JORMA JUHANI PESONEN (EKT))
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Hinz's "Paratwa"
Keywords: hinz
Date: 28 Sep 92 11:47:35 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki, Fac.Agric.For.

In article <yshah.717543530@lucpul.it.luc.edu> yshah@lucpul.it.luc.edu (Guessing) writes:


>   I just finished "Paratwa" and didn't like the ending.   Too many questions
>remain.

>1)  Is there going to be another book?
  Actually it was/is a trilogy. The 2nd book is called Ash Ock.

	<QUESTION 2 UNKNOWN>

>3)  Would Theophrastus be able to make a faster than light drive in a
>    thousand years? (I think so)
   They are still pondering on it in the beginning of Ash Ock
	
	Just reading Ash Ock. Nice...
	Jozma  :-)

    JPESONEN@viikki.helsinki.fi  ///
                                ///   "Is all that we see or seem,
    There are realities        ///     But a Dream within a Dream?"
    Within realities, but     ///      Edgar Allan Poe
                     THERE ARE NO ABSOLUTES
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dbrod@eng.clemson.edu (Douglas Brod)
Subject: Next Rama Book
Reply-To: dbrod@eng.clemson.edu
Organization: College of Engineering, Clemson Univ.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 15:48:29 GMT

Does anyone know when Arthur C. Clarke's next Rama book will be out?

Doug Brod
brod@eng.clemson.edu


Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:13165 rec.arts.books:17118
From: curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Science Fiction books with linguistic content
Date: 29 Sep 1992 17:28:19 GMT
Organization: CS Dept. Snakepit - Do Not Feed.
NNTP-Posting-Host: boa.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <29SEP199210320290@venus.tamu.edu> spb0457@venus.tamu.edu (SubGenius) writes:
>
>I elect to contest this by presenting the fact that many writers present
>dialogue or narration in dialect;  Twain, Heinlein, Burgess, Joyce, u.s.w.
>
>I fail to see how the relevence of an analogy stated "A is like B because C"
>is rebutted by your "No it isn't."

An analogy is not an argument.  An analogy is an illustration of an argument.
Provide me with an argument, and I shall be happy to rebut it.

If you're interested in learning that your analogy is bogus,
though, I thought I'd already done that.  For those short of
memory:  Twain and Joyce used existing dialects to illustrate
existing subcultures, without altering orthography; Burgess
used new words to mean new things; and Heinlein sucks.

>Further, my guess is that the functional value of this tread is very nearly
>over as your last post makes no reference at all to the subject allegedly
>under consideration, instead discussing my previous post.

I tink te functional value of tis tread ended when it began. I
stopped reading r.a.b. some time ago, but it's always
refreshing to learn that the sophist population is still
thriving.  Chalk one up for the Endangered Species Act.

The best case I've heard for Hoban is, in fact, one I received by email.

The author points out that Riddley Walker's dialect is quite
similar to Middle English.  He opined that this makes it
"legitimate English," which I found it hard to agree with, and
that it gives the narrative a distinctly medieval tone, which
augments the theme.  I found this last very easy to agree with,
and am on the verge of going out & buying _RW_ to see if it does.

>
>
>
>
>
>Yours etc.,
>
>
>
>
>SubGenius

Yrs. newlineally,









c
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: mblum@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Cerebus)
Subject: Re: Enders Trilogy by Orson Scott Card
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:47:55 GMT

wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) writes:

>>andrew@tagsys.com (Andrew Gideon) writes:
>>>In article <927@hobby.ukc.ac.uk> mb7@ukc.ac.uk (M.Bloom) writes:
>>>>      [..........]
>>>>there is a 4th book after Xenocide? In the preface to Speaker for the Dead,
>>>>the author mentions that he split Xenocide into two books, due to it's
>>>>length. Did this happen?
>>>
>>>Well, I met Mr. Card when he signed a stack of books for
>>>me.  It was just when _Xenocide_ was released.  When
>>>asked (I don't recall whether I asked, or if it was my
>>>sister-in-law, or some other person), he claimed that the
>>>forth book already existed.  They (the publisher) had
>>>decided to hold it for a while.
>>
>So what I would like to know is whether my paperback copy of
>'Xenocide', in excess of 500 pages, is the _whole_ story, or is it
>only the first half?  Does anyone know for sure?  I'm asking only
>because so far, I've found it to be one of those incredibly
>fascinating stories one hopes never ends.  (In checking the page count
>I inadvertantly read the last line of the book--looks like a clean
>ending to me, but of course I won't know for sure until I've read the
>whole thing)

There will definitely be a fourth book.  Once you read the whole book
this will be very obvious to you, because, while one of the major plot
lines is completed, one is left hanging, and another has just begun.
Besides, the various 'zines have mentioned the fourth book several
times, as has Card in interviews.  I don't know what the title is,
alas.

-- Matt
+------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
|  Matt "Matt" Blum            | "Hello.  My name is Oedipus.  You are    |
|                              |      my father.  Prepare to die."        |
| mblum@cs.brandeis.edu        |                                          |
|                              | I am not politically incorrect.          |
|  (617)736-5894               | I am politically challenged.             |
+------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
From: tdober@llnl.gov (TDO)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Diane Duane, _Door Into Fire_
Date: 5 Oct 92 22:24:04 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written
Organization: llnl

In article <1992Oct4.163841.164@alchemy.ithaca.ny.us>,
cpf@alchemy.TN.Cornell.EDU (Courtenay Footman) wrote:

> My copy of "Door into Fire" is the first (Dell) edition.  Diane Duane revised
> DiF when it was reissued.  How extensive, important, and good are the revisions?

Extensive--not very.

Important--fairly.

Good--very.

To be more specific, the changes I noticed between the two versions were:

   o  Freelorn got quite a bit more character development. In the
      original version, he came across to me as pretty feckless and
      irresponsible; he looked like he would make a bad ruler. The
      revised version gives him a lot more political awareness and
      concern for his subjects-to-be.

   o  Sunspark got a bit less "human". Since he/she/it was one of my
      favorite characters, I regret this change somewhat, but it brings
      the character more in synch with the portrayal through the rest
      of the series.

I solved my "liked this bit, didn't like that bit" problem by keeping
copies of both versions around; I read whichever one suits my mood.


> Courtenay Footman			I finally got back on the net.

TDO
--
#include "StdDisclaimer.h"

Pain, like time, is going to come on regardless. Question is, what glorious
moments can you win from life in addition to the pain? -- Lois McMaster
Bujold, _Barrayar_
From: steinly@topaz.ucsc.edu (Steinn Sigurdsson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Coming of Age novels (was Re: Count Geiger's Blues and Jumper)
Date: 30 Sep 92 13:27:40
Organization: Lick Observatory/UCO
	<STEINARB.92Sep30102749@vier.idt.unit.no>
NNTP-Posting-Host: topaz.ucsc.edu
In-reply-to: steinarb@idt.unit.no's message of 30 Sep 92 10:27:49

In article <STEINARB.92Sep30102749@vier.idt.unit.no> steinarb@idt.unit.no (Steinar Bang) writes:

   >>>>> jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:

   > 	I happened to recently read 'Orbital Resonance' and 'Rite of
   > Passage' back to back. What are the great SF 'coming of age' novels?
   > I'd put 'The Wild Shore' on the list (and, I suppose the other two
   > books in that series), but what else should go on the cannonical
   > list of CoA books?

   "Citizen of the Galaxy", Robert Heinlein
    (actually a lot of Heinlein's juveniles would fit the bill, but none
   of them are up to the standard of _CotG_).

Podkayne of Mars (with the originally published ending ;-)
Starman Jones
Tunnel in the Sky
SiaSL 

Player of Games by Banks ;-)

A Fire upon the Deep by Vinge :-) :-) :-)

The Silverberg novel involving The Book of Skulls
Majipoor (titles?) the first Prince Valentine novel.

*  Steinn Sigurdsson   			Lick Observatory      	*
*  steinly@lick.ucsc.edu		"standard disclaimer"  	*
*  If you ever have to go to Shoeburyness			*
*  Take the A-road, the ok road, that's the best!		*
*  Go motoring on The A13!	- BB 1983			*
From: klein@frith.egr.msu.edu (Jeffrey Klein)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Dewey Decimal for some authors
Date: 2 Oct 92 18:04:58 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University College of Stunt Piloting

In article <1992Oct2.155628.21009@cs.cornell.edu> moudgill@cs.cornell.edu ( Mayan Moudgill) writes:
>Here are the dewey decimal numbers for some authors.
>(I've got a list of about 150 authors. These are the authors in the
>first quarter of the list which our library has).
>
>Alan	_	Garner		PZ7.G236,PZ8.1.G23,PR6057.A736
[...]

This is _NOT_ Dewey Decimal, it's Library of Congress...
-- 
Jeff Klein             | "Happily, Ral doffs his outer clothing for a
Browsing Boy of the LNH|  refreshing dip in one of the dangerous 
klein@frith.egr.msu.edu|  chemical vats." - Ty Templeton 
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:13068 sci.lang:7363
From: andy@research.canon.oz.au (Andy Newman)
Subject: Re: Shock wave rider
Organization: Canon Information Systems Research Australia
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 09:57:32 GMT

whit@milton.u.washington.edu (John Whitmore) writes:
>In article <1992Sep25.174336.26949@radian.uucp> markbr@radian.uucp (markbr) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep21.155430.7310@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>, S_TITZ@iravcl.ira.uka.de (Olaf Titz) writes:
>># In <19de99INNs3r@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> garvey@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu writes:
>># 
>># >  ted@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca (Ted Powell) writes:
>># >  >S_TITZ@iravcl.ira.uka.de (Olaf Titz) writes:
>># >  >>Just to take another example of something *not* yet being invented: 
>
>># >  >>That dance where the dancers generate the music themselves (supposedly
>># >  >>via a computer controlling the noise equipment). As far as I know, no
>># >  >>such thing exists by mid-1992. 
>
>>Sorry, guys. There's been an instrument around since at least the sixties,
>>whose name I canNOT remember, that you play by, I believe, moving your
>>hand either in its (electrical?magnetic?) field, or over a charged plate.
>
>	It's called a Theremin (after its inventor, Leon Theremin).
>It is an old instrument, dates back to the twenties,  and uses
>oscillators tuned by body capacitance, usually played with two
>spheres for electrodes.  The principle would work with any body motion,
>to some extent.
>
>
>	John Whitmore


There are also instruments that work by interrupting light (or some
such mechanism). The "player" moves around, the "instrument" converts
the movement into a MIDI control signal and the synths play it. This
has been around for a few years.
-- 
Andy Newman (andy@research.canon.oz.au)		"int - God's own type"
From: dpn2@po.CWRU.Edu (Damien P. Neil)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Coming of Age novels (was Re: Count Geiger's Blues and Jumper)
Date: 30 Sep 1992 21:58:41 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: dpn2@po.CWRU.Edu (Damien P. Neil)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) says:

>	I happened to recently read 'Orbital Resonance' and 'Rite  of
>Passage' back to back. What are the great SF 'coming of age' novels?
>I'd put 'The Wild Shore' on the list (and, I suppose the  other two  
>books in  that series), but what else  should  go on the cannonical
>list of  CoA books?
>
>							James Nicoll
>

I liked _Emergence_. I'm afraid I can't remember the author, though. I
especially like the 'shorthand' English the protagonist writes in.
-- 
+-------------+------------------+---------------------------------+
| Damien Neil | dpn2@po.cwru.edu | Case Western Reserve University |
+-------------+------------------+---------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: "milan rezac" <milan.rezac@canrem.com>
Subject: tolkien ?
Reply-To: "milan rezac" <milan.rezac@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 6 Oct 92 11:42:27 EST

JK>Does anybody know of a newsgroup concerning J R R Tolkien, his life and work?
JK>I would like a discussion on both his "professional" and "leisure" books.
JK>If no group is dedicated to Tolkien, could we start a discussion here?

I'm afraid there's probably no news group.  Don't see why though, he is very
popular (or at least was, I have been out of touch for some time now).  I
*have* tried to find a newsgroup, but to no avail.  There are however
Tolkien-oriented lists:  Tolklang (everything from Quenya to his uses of Old
English), and Tolkien.  Since I'm unable to subscribe to lists, I can't tell
you what they're about, but there's a monthly or bi-monthly posting in some
of the rec.arts.sf* conferences which includes more information.

As for a discussion, I would love it.  I'm afraid I haven't read any
"professional" books, just the Middle-earth related ones (LotR,H,Sil,History
of Middle-earth,stuff like that).  Personally I'm interested in his
artificial languages (Quenya especially), and in the Middle-earth generally
(now that's a WORK of IMAGINATION).
---
  DeLuxe 5.60 #7817  Nai iMenelcalar kalyavar tielya ullume.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: lgs57@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Publication Dates (was Robert Jordan's "Shadow Rising")
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:46:12 GMT

Paperbacks
Mageworlds:Price of the Stars-Doyle and MacDonald - seen in the bookstore in
September
Serrated Edge-Lackey + Shepherd - seen in September
LaNague Chronicles-Wilson - seen in September

Hardcovers
Sudden Wild Magic-Diana Wynne Jones-not seen as of September 23rd
Cutting Edge-Duncan-seen in September
Yesterday, We Saw Mermaids-Friesner-seen in September
Winds of Change-Lackey-not seen as of September 23rd

Bestsellers are often seen before their stated publication date.  I don't have
an explanation.  However, Jordan's book would be considered a bestseller.

Books are also received at different times at different bookstores.
Using Borders as an example, their order is shipped to Ann Arbor, Michigan and
then subsequently shipped to Columbus.  So, as a result, Little Professor
often has new books earlier than Borders.

The staff at bookstores seem incredibly ignorant of this disparity between
publication date and actual date available for sale.


Linda Siemsen
All statements are solely my own and not that of my employer.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine)
Subject: Books I Love to Hate (e.g., Orbital Resonance)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:49:00 GMT

My posting on, "Books I Hate to Love," led me to think about
books I love to hate.

I think currently, "Orbital Resonance" by John Barnes tops the list.
I started to read this book, and got so angry I threw it against
the desk and didn't read another damn page.

Why? It seemed to be a well-written, entertaining book.

Two reasons:

1) It seemed clear that Melpomene (?) Murray was going to be
   another member of the long list of nauseatingly cute female SF 
   heroines.

   There seems to be a whole subgenre of them: Lizzie Lee in
   "Unwillingly to Earth," Podkayne of Mars, Lark in Mercedes
   Lackey's The Lark and the Wren (?), etc...

   (One of the reasons I liked "Emergence" was that Candy could
   have so easily been nauseatingly cute, and (IMHO) just by
   a hair wasn't. Maybe it was that Foley catheter.)

   Now, gentle readers, I beg your indulgence. Remember *these
   are fictional characters* -- and don't be too mad at me
   when I say, I hope some author puts a Podkayne clone in
   their book -- and then has her raped by Huns. Heh, heh, heh!

2) The last straw was when the author started talking about
   the teaching of mathematics. And on his spaceship school,
   with very bright kids, in the 21st century -- a major
   component of such teaching turned out to be having them
   perform calculations fast! 

   (Fine as drill, or as a parlor game. But as a serious
   method of measuring young peoples' mathematical ability?)

Final complaint. Why must the writers of these nauseating
books always be so good (or at least entertaining) -- that
I end up wasting an afternoon -- and five bucks?

Lenore Levine
From: hyde@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Nuclear Winter
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:36:31 -0300
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1992Sep30.041115.14940@serval.net.wsu.edu>, msmith@beta.tricity.wsu.edu (Dragon Lord) writes:
> In article <1992Sep25.154750.7771@ac.dal.ca> hyde@ac.dal.ca writes:
>>In article <1992Sep24.152908.7679@pbhyc.PacBell.COM>, djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes) writes:
>>> In article <5938@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at> mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner) writes:
>>> 
>>>>OK, now, who is David Belden?  This makes him look interesting. 
>>> 
>>> David Belden is a bay area SF writer whose two novels -- CHILDREN OF ARABLE and,
>>> uh, the other one -- impressed me a great deal with their smooth writing and 
>>> intense layered meanings.  They're commonly set in a future where Earth -- after
>>> a now-long-past nuclear war -- has descended into barbarism during the nuclear 
>>> winter which, at the time Belden wrote them, was presumed to be the likeliest 
>>> scenario. 
>>
>>
>>	By contrast, the carbon dioxide and ozone problems, though
>>	not without controversy, are at least attested to by the
>>	majority of scientists working *in* atmospheric science, so
>>	the writer can have greater confidence in the predictions.
>>	(But don't bet the farm just yet.)
>>
> Ok, Since you mentions the ozone "problem", what is it?  If you're
> referring to the ozone "hole" at the north and south poles, IS it a
> problem??  As far as I've been able to find out, nobody has monitored
> them enough to know if this is directly caused by something mankind has
> done, or if it's a naturally occuring cyclical event. 


	Monitoring has been going on for over thirty years.
	At a conference I attended in 1987, the idea that it might
	be part of a natural cycle was still (barely) tenable.
	I don't think it is so any longer.  There has indeed been
	scaremongering, but the problem appears to be real.

  Again, we have
> POLITICAL groups jumping up and down screaming their lungs out about
> something that's there but is almost completely unkown to us.

	It may be unknown to you, it is not unknown to "us".


		When the problem of ozone destruction
	by SSTs and chlorine was first raised in the 1970's,
	rather little was known about upper atmospheric
	chemistry.  In testing the early claims a great deal of
	research has been done as a result of which SSTs have
	more or less been cleared of the charge (and if it is
	all political as you say it is, why did that happen?)
	but the destruction of ozone by chlorine was confirmed
	(actually, it has recently been discovered that bromine
	also exists in large enough quantities to be a problem).

	The chemistry is simple.  It's happening.  How far it
	will go or how dangerous it will be is open to question.
	But it is there.


> 
> 
> Politics, TTTTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHHHHPPPPPPPPPPPPTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!


	A strange comment, given that your post was entirely
	political.



						Bill Hyde
Department of Oceanography
Dalhousie University,
Halifax, Nova Scotia
hyde@ac.dal.ca or hyde@dalac
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written