Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Tuesday, 18 Aug 1992 16:14:30 EDT
From: T.C.A.Venkatesan <IO92395@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: EVR - Part II (Atheism)
 <Bt37rv.6zp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> <92230.102729IO92395@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
 <Bt5uzs.46n@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>

In article <Bt5uzs.46n@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, mvishnu@morse.uwaterloo.ca (m
vishnu) says:
>
>In a democratic institution, the key words are
>'active participation of the masses' and 'informed decisions my the masses',
>both of which are lacking in India.  There are instances where masses vote
>for a candidate in return for a meal (This was told by Congress worker
>from Kerala) When more than 80% of the Indian population is classified as
>inferior (sudras) and whose lives are worse than that of animals, how can
>they be expected to participate in the country's destiny.  They are apathetic
>to the country's progress.  This is no more by external pressures than
>by the psychological damage done to them by this age-old system (varna-
>ashrama dharma).  (please do not assume that the caste system is not
>present in India.  It is very much alive.  Moreover it wont go by simply
>assuming that it does not exist)
>
   I fail to see how ignorance/non-participation of the masses can be
entirely the fault of the brahmins (from what I have seen so far in this
group, casteism = brahminism = brahmins, seems to be the argument), after
45 years of independence, reservations etc. Surely, the blame falls
more on the politicians than on any one else. Now, of course, you
can say the politicians are being manipulated by brahmins - this,
would be an endless cycle of argument here. But agreeing to that, would
only imply that the majority of people (seeing that brahmins make only
4%) do not know what's right for them - hmmm, I don't think that's
fair.


    And please do not assume things for me. I did not say that casteism
does not exist. Far from it, I believe that it's still very active, much
more so than many people would like to believe. I myself am entirely
against it. You are right in saying that it won't go by wishing it away -
but reservations for half-a-century or more is not the answer either.
It needs something more and particularly, something logical.

    With all this, I still cannot see how the caste-system is costing
India medals. Public apathy does not follow directly from it. There's
more to it than meets the eye.

>Many people think that fatalism is only used in India to cope up with
>failures.  But the truth is that this believe in a completely pre-determined
>world does not let us exert great effort towards a goal.  For comparison, an
>american bought a large chunk of land and attempted to build an
>artificial forest on it.  The forest was burnt down 20 times by teenagers.
>The man persevered (while fighting the teenagers in the courts etc) and
>in the end (after 40 or so years) he has his forest.  The US government
>recognized his perseverence and awarded him a medal.  Now tell how many
>of us (Hindus soaked in fatalism) has the perseverance to try building a
>forest 20 times over a period of 40 years ?  We cannot blame us.
>Our world view does not encourage us to persevere.

    A single example like this does not prove much. If the man had still
failed, would the medal have been given? And again, I hold that fatalism
would have stepped in, only after the 3rd or 4th attempts. Not before
he began. And, who can say what would happen everytime - that this guy
succeeded is not sufficient gurarantee that everyone would.

   And even regarding Americans, I have met a whole lot of them who
think much about the fatalistic attitude. I am sure that there are
advantages and disadvantages in any system.  So blaming it for it's
cons alone is not adequate. This is true for people too. And so
it goes for the brahmins as well as Periyar. They both have done
rights and wrongs. Unfortunately, this net seems to be interested
in only seeing extreme views of either in support of their arguments.


Cheers,
Venky.


*************************************************************************
 T.C.A. Venkatesan                Bitnet  : IO92395@maine
 Dept. of Physics & Astronomy     Internet: venky@gandalf.umcs.maine.edu
 University of Maine
 Orono, ME 04469                  Phone   : (207) 581-1022

  "dream on 'til your dream comes true"
                                           - Aerosmith
  "the child is grown, the dream is gone"
                                           - Pink Floyd