HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dhenry@plains.NoDak.edu (David Henry)
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Re: Vampires-evil
Date: 17 Nov 92 04:34:42 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

Hadu-Ken wrote:

>Cyrus just said :
>>I think it is justifiable to call vampires evil, or to be more precise,
>>it takes an evil person to make a good vampire.
>
>Alright, let me clear up this vampire "evil" thing you guys are so concerned
>about. First, a vampire is evil, no doubt about, it is the ALIGNMENT of the
>vampire that determines what he/she does, I.E. A Lawful Evil vampire will
>never ever attack little children for food.

I'm glad to see people using that icon of philosophical thought, Gary Gygax,
to define their morality. The alignments from D&D, a great idea when role
playing was in its infancy, hardly are great for philosophical discussions
on the nature of evil.

>OK?

Not yet.
-- 
David R. Henry - Rogue Fan Club - "I have a pullchain in my head." -- RIII
My mind is a jackal.--Richard Darwin // What was the question? --Kate Bush
"All you of Earth are IDIOTS!"-P9fOS // Thanks... for the memories.--Rogue
dhenry@plains.nodak.edu * ud137927@ndsuvm1.bitnet * ud137927@vm1.nodak.edu
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: usenet@b8.b8.ingr.com (Usenet Account)
Subject: re Paul Bunyan
Organization: Intergraph
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:33:25 GMT

|> 
|> I was quite shocked to learn that Paul, his grease-skating chefs, his
|> mighty axe (and, lest we forget, Babe, the Blue Ox!), were all a PR/ad
|> bit invented by a logging chain in the early part of the century.
|> 
|> Of course, few people realize that the Pledge of Alliegance itself
|> was written as an ad spiel by a flag company to get sales moving on Flag
|> Day.
|> 

OH MY GOD! Is this TRUE!?
 
I pleadge allegiance to the flag of capitalism and good marketing relations...

No wonder George Bush wanted to make kids say the Pledge of Allegiance in school.
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: ferret@paradox.engin.umich.edu (kenneth r lipka)
Subject: Correcting for the degradation of the Modern World
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 10:17:49 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: ferret@paradox.engin.umich.edu



	What that big, high-falutin' title means is, in a nutshell, stop whining and do something about it!

	What I have seen recently is a lot of people complaining about how Hollywood and Marketers have changed/mutatued/raped the traditional myths and folklore about vampires for their own use.  Also, many people have said that FFC did a good try to "get back to basics" by using BS's book, but fell short.  These are all valid points, and some I agree with.  But... let's stop talking and do something about it.

	This group is a very good thing.  It allows for discussion of ideas most people would get put away for if discussed in real life.  What I suggest is that we get off our butts/terminals and start a grass-roots movement.  I mean, since all of us know what the real vampires are, as opposed to fakelore (as someone put it), then lets tell people about it.  Share the wealth and all that.  We have the power to get together and distribute the origanal myths and legends of the vampire and combat this flood of mode


rn myth.  After, if politicians consider grassroots to be an important thing, why shouldn't why?  If we all cooridnate our efforts and start telling the same, correct, old myths, we can conteract all this stuff many have whined about.  We might even be able to convice some directors to make a true movie about Dracula/vampires.

	Think about.  To mutate JFK:  "Ask not what your country/world/life/etc can do for you; ask what can you do for your country/world/life/etc.  And once you have an answer, act on it!"

	IMRO (in my rabid opinion),
	Ken Lipka
	ferret@engin.umich.edu
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Re: Vampires-evil?
From: nelson@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (Jeffrey J. Nelson)
Date: 17 Nov 92 15:22:23 MST
Reply-To: nelson@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (Jeffrey J. Nelson)
Distribution: world,local


In article <92321.223831IK20001@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, IK20001@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Solipsist@Large) writes:
|> 
|> Johnanthan says:
|> 
|> 
|> >  (4) There _is_ a distinct difference between folklore and fakelore:
|> >      - Folklore is generated "spontaneously" by the people... it's kind of
|> >        a "volkgeist" kind of thing...
|> >      - Fakelore is created deliberately by a select group of people for a
|> >        specific purpose and is often designed to decieve by pretending to
|> >        actually be folklore... Paul Bunyan will _never_ be "folklore" -
|> >        he will _always_ be "fakelore".
|> 
|> Ridiculous.  Utterly so.  I don't know about your neck of the woods,
|> but in Maine we tell stories about Paul all the time.  I and everyone
|> else could care less where they got their start.  Folklore is *legend*,
|> and whatever its genesis, it grows into something completely different.

The original author seems to claim that folklore just kind of "appears",
as if by some kind of mod psychology or group dream or other weird stuff.
I agree, lore in general has a basis in the strangest elements sometimes.
Example:  Santa Claus, that red suit is a product of no less than
Coca Cola.  Once generated, everyone forgets precisely why a detail was
added, then everyone agrees that it just always was that way.  Heck,
ask an athiest and they'll tell you something about a lunatic who got
himself nailed to a tree...  my roommate darn near exploded when a
friend of mine started along these lines.


|> As a side note -- ALL fiction is meant to make mony, otherwise it
|> would not be a commercial product.

Hmmm, never use absolutes ;).  There are authors who aren't
motivated by the money, some just want to tell their stories.
Many young authors write short stories with no intention of publishing.
Lewis Carrol (I believe that was the guy's name) wrote Alice in Wonderland
as a story to tell a little girl one afternoon.

I believe it was the author of "War and Peace" who wrote the whole
epic in a matter of days and stated later that the story just seemed
to be inside of him crying to get out.

				- Jeff

PS  This may be a duplication, I have reason to believe the original
post didn't make it off campus.


Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: tdlg9831@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Tracey Dianne Layng)
Subject: Re: Dracula Criticism
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:59:55 GMT

battlec@cs.rpi.edu (Clark Battle) writes:
[stuff deleted]

>I have to agree.  I loved the movie and read the book.  Why is it that
>fans of a genre are so unsupportive of the films.  Dune fans were disappointed
>by the movie as were Batman fans.  These movies were not made to live up
>tho the expectations ov a select MINORITY of genre fanatics but to entertain
>the masses (eg: MASS media).  If FFC decided to tell the tale in his own
>way that's his prerogative.

I read _Dune_ and I really liked the movie. I have never read a _Batman_ book,
but I have read the comics and I liked _Batman_. My problem with the _Dracula_
movie is that FCC called it BRAM STOKER'S Dracula, and it is not. If he would
have called it FRANCIS FORD COPPOLA'S Dracula, it might have had some redeeming
qualities. 

I am sorry, but it just wasn't Bram Stoker's Dracula.

Tracey
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: cgc2646@usl.edu (Cech Claude G)
Subject: Re: Vampire impotence
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:16:11 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.215430.20928@muddcs.claremont.edu> ahughes@jarthur.claremont.edu (The Fool) writes:
>This is in response to Glenn's posting in which she abuses Werewolf and then
>asks whether or not vampires are impotent.
>
>I would say that it's going to tend to depend on what you accept as source 
>material for vampire info. I would be surprised if traditional vampires (the
>old walking corpse that feeds on blood, was probably a sinner, werewolf, or 
>really unlucky person in life, etc.) was capable of sexual activity. After all
>their symbols of death, not life.
>
Actually, in some of the gypsy legends of vampires, they are quite capable
of mating and having offspring (although if memory serves, the myths usually
make the male the vampire in such a liason).  On the other hand, remember
Lilith (no, let's not resurrect that thread):  There are (as discussed
previously) elements of both vampirism and succubism in her makeup.

Cheers,
	Claude
From: mcr0193@rigel.tamu.edu (Blitzkrieg))
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Re: Eric the super annoying
Date: 22 Nov 1992 00:17 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <By1AML.9F8@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, branwen@sage.cc.purdue.edu ( ) writes... 
>      Stay the fuck off the board unless you are going to further the discussion
>that you are responding to.  Every one of your posts have been sarcastic,
>abusive, annoying, and downright repetitive when they are not one of the above.

How is your post any better, and how does it further discussion on vampires?
I find your post both abusive, and highly annoying. There is a newsgroup
called alt.flames, or something like that, made especially for nonsense like
this. Check it out, dude.

Now for a question that actually pertains to vampires:

Does anyone know where the oldest legends of vampires originated? I've heard
that there were vampire legends dating to ancient Egypt, but I've never read
anything of this nature. Does anyone know?

Matt


Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: modowd@lonestar.utsa.edu (Michael T. O'Dowd)
Subject: hhmm....not REALLY a spoiler....
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 12:13:35 GMT

For those of you who have seen the movie, Dracula (pretitle abolished),
once, twice, or a bevy of times, how many of you out there in the hushed
theatre noticed that when the young man was bitten on the RIGHT side of
the neck by Lucy, that he grabbed the LEFT side of his neck? hhmm....

Perhaps he was so shocked, even he forgot what the hell was going on.


-- 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 If it walks like a duck, it must be a duck.
                  If it barks like a dog, it must be a dog.
From: xorcist@cyberden.uucp
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: FFC's research dept used Vampyre
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 92 21:57:24 PST
Organization: Indescribable Creations

I thought it was interesting to see that FFC's Dracula used the spelling
"Vampyre" for the text on the cover of the book Hopkins character used to
do his research on the blood suck'en one...


__________________________________________________________________________
   |       /         |\
   | H E   \ Y B E R |/ E N            [ xorcist@cyberden.uucp ]
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: thorfinn@wixer.cactus.org (Thorfinn Einarsson)
Subject: re: FFC's Dracula (some spoilers)
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 09:05:12 GMT

Given the circumstances, I supported Mina's decision to join Vlad 
in eternity. It's her lives after all. Near the end,I found myself openly 
cheering on Dracula. And at the end of the movie, I found
my eyes full of tears. FFC has transformed the evil, sinister Un-Dead
arch vampire into a tragic hero for the 90's. This movie transcended
horror and became a very sad love story. I walked away from the theatre
with a sort of empathy towards Dracula and Mina. 

=-= Thorfinn Einarsson =-=-=-=-=-= ALU =-=-=-=-=-= O'dhinn er alfadhir! =-=
"En stundum vakti hann upp daudha menn o'r io"rdhu edha settisk undir hanga;
fyrir thvi' var hann kalladhr draugadro'ttinn edha hangadro'tinn."
=-= ALU =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ynglinga saga ch. 7 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ALU =-=
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: thorfinn@wixer.cactus.org (Thorfinn Einarsson)
Subject: Re: Species of vampires
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 01:57:45 GMT

>Douglas P. Wojtowicz writes:
>The term Dracula means Son of the Dragon.  In ancient mythology, the further
>you go east, the more vastly powered the species of Dragons become.  Indeed,
>Dragons seemed to be enormous parts of the cultures of the Eurasian continent,
>and perhaps even North America (remember the Thunderbird?).  Also, as we go
>to look at the Eastern Dragons (who mythologically might have extended to
>the area of Europe that would have been where Tepes was doing his greatest
>fighting with the Eastern Turks), they had some abilities in common with
>some of the vampires of old.  They could become invisible, change between
>human, animal and dragon form, had command of the beasts and elements, could
>mesmerize humans... starting to see a bit of a pattern?

The Germanic Heathens were well aware of dragons. In northern Europe, there
are thousands of runestones which have runes written inside dragon engravings.
The first christian churches in Norway (11th century) were built along
the designs of their earlier heathen temples. These are dragon
churches. Find a picture of one and see for yourself. Read *Beowulf*, 
*Volsunga saga*, or the *Poetic Edda* for many more encounters with
dragons. J.R.R. Tolkien took much of his mythology from Germanic and
Celtic mythology. In Anglo-Saxon England, shooting stars were thought
to be dragons flying in the sky. 

"At the Alamannic cemetery of Oberflacht, the tree coffins preserved
by unusual soil conditions were carved with a serpent-dragon extended
over the lid, triumphant over the dead within." --- taken from p.161 
of H.R. Ellis Davidson's *Gods and Myths of Northern Europe*.

Look at the Germanic heathen art. One major recurring theme is the
Dragon. 

Both Sigurd and Beowulf are dragon-slayers.

The Midgard Serpent circles the world and bites its own tail.

I could go on, but I hope you get my point. The Middle Ages 
Order of the Dragon (Vlad's group) was Germanic in origin and its purpose
was similar to that of the Teutonic Knights and the Templars (defend
X-ianity and rip-off or even destroy non-X-ians).

Dragons can be viewed through the eye-glasses of folklore, fiction,
or the reality (as we know it) today. I fear that we will mix them 
together until all distinctions are gone, and our discussion will
become pure fantasy and speculation.

=-= Thorfinn Einarsson =-=-=-=-=-= ALU =-=-=-=-=-= O'dhinn er alfadhir! =-=
"En stundum vakti hann upp daudha menn o'r io"rdhu edha settisk undir hanga;
fyrir thvi' var hann kalladhr draugadro'ttinn edha hangadro'ttinn."
=-= ALU =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ynglinga saga ch. 7 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ALU =-=
From: raven@Nocturne.Boulder-Creek.CA.US (System Ninja)
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Re: Looking for SWFV
Keywords: looking she-vamps bite_me
Date: 23 Nov 92 11:18:44 GMT
Organization: "The Enclave" -- Boulder Creek, California

sundermm@columbia.dsu.edu (MARC SUNDERMEYER) writes:

> 
> Some say that vampires are real and I am looking for a single, white, 
> female, vampire with a bodily age of 20 to 30 years besides her actual 
> age of 100 or more years.  
> 				Thank you.
> 	

Huh!  Aren't we all...

-- Raven

----------
raven@Nocturne.Boulder-Creek.CA.US (System Ninja)
"The Enclave" -- Boulder Creek, California -- +1 408 338-9754
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: cairnss@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Launcelot Gobbo=)
Subject: Re: vampyre girls
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 10:04:22 GMT

wj_wigna@csd.uwe.ac.uk (Vampyre) writes:

>Why is is that all female vampyres are portrayed as being very voluptuous,
>and very attractive? If this is so, why are there no girls like this round here???

Probably because you don't live in the right place.  Try at night.  Somewhere
else....they exist, they exist.

suggestion for new group?

alt.cute.DEATHROCK

*laughs*

Is it me, or has everybody my age grown up already?  Angst angst.

Is it me, or is everybody who posts to net news male?  Angst angst.

What a sexist thing to say. I hope I burn in hell for it.......

-- 
         %            I am the shadow child of my world.          % 
        %                 cairnss@ucsu.Colorado.EDU                %
       %    F1V]D('-A=F4@=&AE(%%U965N+"!';V0@8FQE<W,@=7,@06QL+@I    %
 
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres,alt.horror
From: markg@engrg.uwo.ca (Mark Gagnon)
Subject: Re: Dracula, Necroscope, movies.
Organization: University of Western Ontario, London
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:00:29 GMT

Brian Lumley's NECROSCOPE series leans very heavily on its HPL
connections: to whit, the Vampires or Whampyri are more like
the shoggoth in their ability to shape-change and convert fleshy
matter... If you've every read the Call of Cthulhu RPG supplement
"The Asylum" there is a short adventure about a 'mad' doctor who
discovers the process of generating shoggoth material. He also goes
so far as to 'convert' himself into shoggoth material. That particular
story-line reminded me very much of Lumley's vampires.

Another point. Lumley's vampires have a connection with spore or fungus
based life. The process of infection for Harry Keogh (Sorry for the spoiler,
folks, it's unavoidable...) begins with his contact with spore material
from bizarre mushrooms encircling him as he sleeps. Mushrooms and toadstools
do not photosynthesize, and (correct me if I'm really far off base...) some
do wither in sunlight.

I find Lumley's work all very logically constructed.

-- 
Mark Gagnon (markg@prism.engrg.uwo.ca)  University of Western Ontario
=====================================================================
              Great Wits are sure to Madness near ally's 
              And thin Partitions do their Bounds divide
From: ufaustus@mcl.ucsb.edu (Mark Bergem)
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Re: Dracula Soundtrack?
Date: 20 Nov 92 19:26:44 GMT
Distribution: usa

In <1992Nov19.212210.2824@sura.net> jmalcolm@sura.net (Joseph Malcolm) writes:

>In article <1992Nov19.174041.17367@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> tabaer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Troy A Baer) writes:
>>Is there going to be a soundtrack CD for F.F. Coppola's new Dracula?  I
>>enjoyed the score, and I would like to have it for background music for
>>Vampire: the Masquerade, Call of Cthulhu, and other horror RPG's.  I checked
>>in a couple record stores in the OSU campus area yesterday, but couldn't
>>find anything.

>The "New Releases" board at the local Kemp Mill (semi-reasonable
>chain store around here) says it's supposed to come out the 24th,

Why would anyone want the sound track??  That was one of the worst soundtraks
I have ever heard, it was so over done(kinda like the movie, eh?)Don't get me
wrong I thought the movie was OK, but I think the L.A. Times put it best when
they describe FFC Dracula as "a 40 million dollar high school play." But anyway
enough of me

			Dr Faustus

Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: cairnss@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Launcelot Gobbo=)
Subject: Re: I want stories
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 14:38:07 GMT

4dejesus_de@spcvxb.spc.edu writes:

>Alright, fellow E-mail kiddies, I need help!

>My friends and I have been telling ghost stories for kicks lately,
>and I've done pretty well with tales from the old country. (I'm Asian....
>MUCHO tales from the old folk.)

>Anyway, I'm running out....heard any spooky ones?

Try alt.folklore.ghost-stories
-- 
         %            I am the shadow child of my world.          % 
        %                 cairnss@ucsu.Colorado.EDU                %
       %    F1V]D('-A=F4@=&AE(%%U965N+"!';V0@8FQE<W,@=7,@06QL+@I    %
 
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: bchapman@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Bruce Patrick Chapman)
Subject: Re: vampyre girls
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 13:57:50 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.005653.8526@csd.uwe.ac.uk> wj_wigna@csd.uwe.ac.uk (Vampyre) writes:
>Why is is that all female vampyres are portrayed as being very voluptuous,
>and very attractive? If this is so, why are there no girls like this round here???

strange...one could observe that male vampyres are also portrayed as handsome

one must have some advantages...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is forwarded mail.  Please send all comments etc. to the following
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Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: dhenry@plains.NoDak.edu (David Henry)
Subject: Paul Bunyan... Vampire? (Was: Re: Vampires-evil?
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 04:21:26 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

And, boy, after that Subject line, I'm sorry to say that this post is only
a followup to the "folk/fake"lore Paul Bunyan minidebate...

Thanatos said:

>	And, BTW, I was taught that Paul was 100% folklore.  Depends on the
>teachier/sources, I guess.   

Living less than three hours from an *actual* Paul Bunyan statue (Bemidji,
MN, for those of you looking for thrills), I guess, exposed me to plenty of
Paul Bunyan lore when I was going through elementary school.

I was quite shocked to learn that Paul, his grease-skating chefs, his
mighty axe (and, lest we forget, Babe, the Blue Ox!), were all a PR/ad
bit invented by a logging chain in the early part of the century.

Of course, few people realize that the Pledge of Alliegance itself
was written as an ad spiel by a flag company to get sales moving on Flag
Day.

-- 
David R. Henry - Rogue Fan Club - "I have a pullchain in my head." -- RIII
My mind is a jackal.--Richard Darwin // What was the question? --Kate Bush
"All you of Earth are IDIOTS!"-P9fOS // Thanks... for the memories.--Rogue
dhenry@plains.nodak.edu * ud137927@ndsuvm1.bitnet * ud137927@vm1.nodak.edu
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: branwen@sage.cc.purdue.edu ( )
Subject: Re: vampyre girls
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 23:50:32 GMT

      You asked why female vampires are always portrayed as voluptuous
sensuous creatures.  The reason is simple.  We live in a world that has
been created by men, with a history that has been written by men.  It is
the same reason women in Dungeons and Dragons and other fantasy rpg's are
always clad in little armor and would be wearing a 36-D bra if the artists
ever bothered to give them one in the first place.  Women in fantasy, and by
this I mean the fantasy as created largely by men, have always been idealized
in the physical sense, while men in fantasy are permitted to be idealized in
either the physical, moral, or existential sense.  Women are beautiful, and no
more.  Men are handsome, but may also be stoically virtuous (women are merely
virtuous if they are chaste) or morally beyond reproach.
      I didn't really mean to jump on the bandwagon here, but the question
begs the answer.  Women vampires, as creatures of fantasy, are subject to 
portrayal only in the form that the male fantasizers choose to give them.
For a woman to be portrayed as anything other than an ugly hag, she must be
given the opposite extreme.  There is no such thing as a plain, unimpressive
and unassuming woman in fantasy.  Where a woman begins as such, she is
invariably transformed into an object of great (formerly undiscovered)
beauty.
      As far as why you don't see any "women like that around here" the
answer is equally simple.  Women like that don't spend a lot of time in the
computer lab.  They have dates.
                                                      Karen

Newsgroups: alt.vampyres