HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cstadbg@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr M J Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: Re: Vocal Elimination the easy way (was Re: Beatle Anomalies)
Date: 17 Nov 1992 11:34:01 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk


enf1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Eric Fisher) said

>I do want to challenge your assertion that LPs have especially poor
>channel separation, though; admittedly it is not great, but cassettes,
>having four channels recorded on such a small space, often suffer from
>channel bleeding.
>This is the experience I have had, at least.

>Eric

Hey...at least on a tape the heads are physically separate. An LP needle
is *one* piece of metal trying to extract *two* channels of sound.
This is detected by measuring the movement in two planes at right angles.

Surely this cannot be *that* accurate...ok its good enough for listening
but for mucking about with phasing.....not too good. Unstable and leaky
to say the least!

=============================================================================  
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    _/_/  _/_/   _/   _/_/     _/          |         Michael Brown
   _/  _/  _/   _/   _/       _/_/         |
  _/      _/   _/   _/_/     _/            |   cstadbg@csv.warwick.ac.uk
 _/      _/   _/   _/  _/   _/_/_/_/  _/   |
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
From: cstadbg@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr M J Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: Vocal elimination (The better way)
Date: 17 Nov 1992 11:25:27 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk

>Inaudible??!!!!  Aside from the fact that the bass virtually
>disappears and the imagining becomes incredibly unstable and the
>balances between things located at different points in the stereo
>spectrum is totally changed . . .

Hence I use an electronic gizmo which passes the bass through untouched
It is only unstable because vinyl is not the best media for carrying
stable stereo. This becomes very noticeable when you OOPS it.

>Incidentally, this is how I produce the OOPS effect--by reversing the
>connections on one of my speakers.

This is not much better than fiddling with the cartridge....!

>Not true.  LPs have far less channel seperation than almost any analog
>tape format which is less than digital.  But that isn't the problem
>here anyway . . .

Tape copy of LP < LP < Tape (original) < DAT and CD is the order. 
However channel separation *is* the issue, as the better the separation
the more likely you are to cancel the centre stereo, and leave the
rest of the image alone.

=============================================================================  
     _/      _/   _/   _/  _/   _/_/_/_/   |
    _/_/  _/_/   _/   _/_/     _/          |         Michael Brown
   _/  _/  _/   _/   _/       _/_/         |
  _/      _/   _/   _/_/     _/            |   cstadbg@csv.warwick.ac.uk
 _/      _/   _/   _/  _/   _/_/_/_/  _/   |
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
From: prokopy@en.ecn.purdue.edu (dave)
Subject: Re: X-Mass lp          some questions from
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 02:55:24 GMT

In article <1e6rvfINNfl6@menudo.uh.edu> edc@evolution.bchs.uh.edu (edward s. chen) writes:
>This is probably the single best document of the Beatles history.   You can
>hear the excitement of the "lads" at being famous throughout the country, and
>on the cusp of world fame.  This continues, until the simple "thank you very
>much for buying our records" became stale, just as touring and singing "She
>Loves You" for people not listening became a bore.   Drug-inspired visions
>helped the far-out, Goon-type pantomime records, and finally the break-up of
>the band.
i've always liked the way the christmas records documented the phases
through which the group went.  the first three (1963-1965) are pretty
straight-forward, recorded "live," with no overdubs.  the next two
(1966 & 1967) are very experimental, with overdubs and effects (much
like the increasingly more sophistocated recordings they released during
this period).  and, of course, the last two (1968 & 1969) were nothing
more that seperate recordings by the individual members, editted together.

very symbolic, IMHO.  i really wish these recordings were made again
available to the public at large.

>
>Unfortunately, the fan club records are the only place this material has
>been released for anything approaching public consumption.   Originals
>can be found in the $30.00 - $50.00 range, and counterfeits for considerably
>less.  (There is one *very* nice one around which was pressed on swirled, 
>multicolored vinyl).  A promotional disc was made in Christmas 1990, and
>sent to selected radio stations containing all seven Christmas messages, along
>with assorted holiday songs from the solo Beatles.  ("Ding Dong, Ding Dong",
>"Happy Christmas (WAR IS OVER)", "Wonderful Christmastime", "Rudolph the Red
>Nosed Reggae" and the like).   I've seen it selling in the $50.00 - $60.00
>range, but it is the only copy of this material on CD.
>
><ESC>
>-- 
>..You either kiss the future or the past goodbye...
>                          -- Ringo Starr (written by O'Deherty / Velez)
>
>                                


-- 
( dave prokopy - prokopy@en.ecn.purdue.edu or prokopy@sage.cc.purdue.edu    )
( "let's put our heads together and start a new country up."                )
(  -r.e.m., "cuyahoga"                                                      )
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
From: paul@moore.com (Paul Maclauchlan)
Subject: Re: Beatles E.P collection
Organization: Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto ON, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 15:38:48 GMT

Stephen Carter (stevedc@syma.sussex.ac.uk) wrote:
: hydroman@acca.nmsu.edu (Hydroman) writes:
: : 
: : I bought the Beatles Get Back movie book at a second hand book shop
: : I have never seen it before. It was produced by Apple and I picked
: : it up for A$20 (about $12 US or so). Is this a good deal? Does anyone
: : know if this book is rare?
: 
: Yes it is.  The first UK pressings of Get Back were in a slip case,
: with this book included in the cover (and the price).  US readers will
: confirm, or otherwise, but I don't think it was released in the US in
: that form, so it seems unlikely that it was released in antipodean
: locations!

I don't know about the US, but my Canadian copy has the book included
in the album-sized slipcase.

-- 
.../Paul Maclauchlan
Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600
paul@moore.com   -or-  {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul
"Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see"/JL'67
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
From: kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari Nenonen)
Subject: Re: Musings on the Paul Is Dead scheme
Organization: MITS, Helsinki, Finland
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 23:02:10 GMT

In the end of Strawberry Fields Forever John is saying slowly something
that was in those days interpreted as 'I bury Paul'. If I remember right
that was the beginning of the urban legend of Paul's death. Much later, in
some radio interwiev John was asked about it and he said:'No, rasberry sauce
was what I said'. And that's what it sounds like now when I know.

--
* kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi * * Kari Juhani Nenonen *
                  * Helsinki - SF *
 
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
From: greg@irl.ise.ufl.edu (Greg O'Rear)
Subject: Re: Lennon leads
Reply-To: greg@ise.ufl.edu (Greg O'Rear)
Organization: Industrial Research Lab - Univ. of Florida
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 21:50:31 GMT

In article <1992Nov14.101633.8592@microsoft.com> erich@microsoft.com (Eric Hanchrow) writes:
>I've left my copy of The Book at home, and can't remember what it has to
>say about this, but I do remember reading Lennon once bragging that
>the intro to "I Feel Fine" contained "the first lick of feedback ever
>recorded", or words to that effect.  However, I have played an electric
>guitar enough to SWEAR that that sound isn't feedback, but rather
>the guitarist lightly touching the vibrating string with a fingernail.
>Any comments from guitar-playing Beatles fans?

The usual kind of guitar feedback (from a hollow-body) is body feedback, which
is probably what you are used to.  But under the right conditions, you can
get neck feedback, where the strings buzz against the frets.  I remember we
tried it with a Gretsch Tennesseean and a Vox amp turned up loud and it worked
great.
--
Greg O'Rear (orear@ise.ufl.edu)
Industrial and Systems Engineering, University of Florida
From: rshapiro@bbn.com (Richard Shapiro)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: HODGE-PODGE again (was: ANOTHER JOHN SCREWUP)
Date: 17 Nov 92 16:52:29
Organization: BBN, Cambridge MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: kariba.bbn.com
In-reply-to: edc@evolution.bchs.uh.edu's message of 17 Nov 92 20:02:53 GMT

In article <1ebj5dINNf55@menudo.uh.edu> edc@evolution.bchs.uh.edu (edward s. chen) writes:

   Most of this material is very nice, but the current rumor is that the
   more interesting stuff from this LP will be on Yellow Dog's next release.

As reported previously, a bunch of this is on HODGE-PODGE, on the YD
subsidiary Black Dog:

   "That Means a Lot"
   -- Takes 23 and 24.  Stereo.   Take 23 is quicker then the previous
      bootleg version, and take 24 features Paul intentionally singing
      off-key, signalling the "death" of the tune.

This one.

   "12 Bar Original"
   -- Takes 1 and 2.  Take one is a false start.   The two takes together
      are approximately 9 minutes, all in stereo.

This one.

   "The Inner Light"
   -- Take 5.  Alternate mono mix of the backing instruments.

This one, which I forgot to mention in my previous post. Not really an
alternate mix, but rather the original backing track, recorded during
the Wonderwall sessions (the vocals were added significantly later).

   "I'm So Tired"
   -- Alternate mix.

And this one.


The rest of the listed items are not on HODGE-PODGE - no great loss
except for:

   "It's All Too Much"
   -- A longer version then any previously released.

which sounds potentially interesting.


On the other hand, HODGE-PODGE also contains an alternate take of
"Yesterday" and a previously unheard take (at least by me :-) of
"Norwegian Wood".
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
From: GERRY_KENDAL@ACT.EDUC.UALBERTA.CA (Gerry Kendal)
Subject: Re: rec.music.sixties
Followup-To: rec.music.beatles
Organization: University of Alberta, Canada
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:25:05 GMT

In article <By6L2K.It6@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, prokopy@sage.cc.purdue.edu
(dave) wrote:
> 
> okay, it's been suggested that i open the discussion of the proposed
> "rec.music.sixties" (or "rec.music.oldies,") newsgroup to rec.music.beatles,
> since we're basically the group that spawned the idea.  so ... that's
> what i'll do.  basically, i guess the idea would be to post suggestions
> for the first charter, and i (along with my crack staff of devoted
> followers! :)) will try to slap it into shape, then we'll post that
> to all the various "rec.music..." and related newsgroups/mailing-lists
> for consumption by the masses.  then hopefully the process will be a
> bit clearer.
> 
> so ... let's open the floor to suggestions.  what do we want this group
> to be about?  just sixties pop?  older?  fifties AND sixties?  folk
> rock?  "classic" rock (although they've just gotten their own group)?
> "blues" rock (i.e., stones and yardbirds, etc.)?  come on, people.
> throw in your $0.02! :)
> 
> hope to hear from you all!
> 
> any questions, or if you'd like to volunteer to help me out (how, i'm
> not quite sure ...), e-mail me.
> 
> thanks!
> -- 
> ( dave prokopy - prokopy@sage.cc.purdue.edu or prokopy@en.ecn.purdue.edu    )

My take would be to cover the mid 50's to late 60's: our friends in
a.m.classic seem to carry on from there.  Wouldn't want to confine it to
any particular genre, but the sense is that it cover the "popular" music of
the period (even that shouldn't be a limiting factor).  

Let's get behind, under, around and with Dave & Co.to get this off the
ground!
From: dbk@cs.umd.edu (Dan Kozak)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: Re: Vocal Elimination the easy way (was Re: Beatle Anomalies)
Date: 16 Nov 92 21:41:45 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <1992Nov10.214347.19254@midway.uchicago.edu> enf1@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>On my system, I usually change the right channel because it's easier to reach,
>so I switch the red (right main) and green (right ground) wires to connect
>to the opposite pins.  Then, on the amplifier, set the mono switch to hear
>the signals cancelled out, or stereo to hear normally with one channel
>out of phase (inaudible to most people).
              ^^^^^^^^^^ !!!!!!

Inaudible??!!!!  Aside from the fact that the bass virtually
disappears and the imagining becomes incredibly unstable and the
balances between things located at different points in the stereo
spectrum is totally changed . . .

The only way this wouldn't virtually destroy the sound is if your
speakers are set up so as not to produce stereo correctly in the first
place, either physically (i.e. you're only hearing one speaker at a
time) or electrically (i.e. one of your speakers is wired out of
phase).  This seems the most likely case.  (I leave it as an exercise
for the reader to suss why having one channel of the cartridge and one
speaker reverse phased would work fine for all cases except when the
mono switch is engaged.)

Incidentally, this is how I produce the OOPS effect--by reversing the
connections on one of my speakers.

>The only time I switch mine back
>to normal is to make cassette tapes, because the channel separation isn't as 
>good on tapes as on other media.

Not true.  LPs have far less channel seperation than almost any analog
tape format which is less than digital.  But that isn't the problem
here anyway . . .

>The other method (good only for playback, not for making tapes) works for
>any signal source.  To use this method of cancellation, disconnect the
>wires going from your speakers to the amplifier ground.  Leave the + wires
>connected, however.  Then connect the - wires from both speakers to each
>other, so that both speakers are connected in a loop going from the right +
>to the left +.  This method has the advantage that you can use the balance
>control to make the cancellation more precise.

And has the potential disadvantage of blowing up certain kinds of
amplifiers.  Not recomended.  It's far easier to just reverse the
leads to one speaker and then sit equidistant from each channel.  You
can move your head to fine tune the effect. :-)

#dan

Clever:         dbk@cs.umd.edu    | "Softly her tower crumbled in the 
Not-so-clever:  uunet!mimsy!dbk   |  sweet silent sun." - Nabokov


Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
From: msherman@zeus.UWaterloo.ca (Marc Sherman)
Subject: Urgent request for Beatles cover info!
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 01:32:52 GMT

Help!  I need a little bit of information URGENTLY (ie: in the next two  
hours...)

Does anyone out there remember the title of the Beatles record which was  
covered by the Slovenian band Laibach about 5 years ago?

Please reply by email to msherman@zeus.uwaterloo.ca  Thanks.
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| msherman@zeus.uwaterloo.ca | Marc Sherman ----------- PVI Productions |
| 217 Delhi Ave., Suite 101  +------------------------------------------+
| Downsview, Ontario, Canada | Gemutlich, gemutlich, GEMUTLICH!         |
| 519/884-5229  416/630-3336 | Die Welt ist gemutlich mit die Kasewaffe.|
+----------------------------+------------------------------------------+
From: brett.pasternack@hal9000.UUCP (Brett Pasternack) 
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: RE: SO BAD
Date: 13 Nov 92 01:53:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: HAL 9000 BBS, (313)663-4173, Ann Arbor, MI, USA
Reply-To: brett.pasternack@hal9000.UUCP (Brett Pasternack) 

-> "So Bad" should be found on "Pipes of Peace" and not GMRtB.
As far as I'm concerned, it shouldn't be found on either one! B^)--one
of my least favorite Macca songs, I think he has much better stuff that
remains unreleased.
But anyway, it is a bonus track on the Broad Street CD, in addition to
being on all versions of Pipes.
---
 . QNet3. . [WNet] Zooman's Zoo BBS - (908) 382-0326 - HST - 2 Nodes
                                                                                                              
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
From: kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari Nenonen)
Subject: Re: Musings on the Paul Is Dead scheme
Organization: MITS, Helsinki, Finland
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 12:42:48 GMT

In article <1eg53gINNgab@transfer.stratus.com> bad@pismo.sw.stratus.com (Bruce Dumes) writes:
>In article <1992Nov18.230210.3853@prime.mdata.fi> kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari Nenonen) writes:
>>In the end of Strawberry Fields Forever John is saying slowly something
>>that was in those days interpreted as 'I bury Paul'. If I remember right
>>that was the beginning of the urban legend of Paul's death. Much later, in
>>some radio interwiev John was asked about it and he said:'No, rasberry sauce
>>was what I said'. And that's what it sounds like now when I know.
>>
>
>
>I think you meant "Cranberry sauce" not "rasberry sauce".  

Yes, Cranberry sauce - sorry, I don't know where that rasberry came from...

>Bruce
>
>
>-- 
>Bruce Dumes			| "Bruce is too obsessed with the Beatles"   |
>Stratus Computer, Inc.		|   --comment on report card from Spring '64 |
>bad@sw.stratus.com              
>508-460-2816                    


--
* kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi * * Kari Juhani Nenonen *
                  * Helsinki - SF *
From: dbk@cs.umd.edu (Dan Kozak)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: Re: unlurking, and switching from vinyl to cd
Date: 16 Nov 92 21:51:11 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <1992Nov11.082458.4720@syma.sussex.ac.uk> stevedc@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Stephen Carter) writes:
>However, without observing in any way at all on which is the better
>meduim, and why, I must own up to being close to traumatized (sp) when
>I went into the Abbey Road studios for the sessions in 1983 and heard
>what I assume to be 1st generation copies of master tapes playing
>through the studio sound system.

>Arguably *that* was the sound the Fabs were after (if you exclude the
>echoing Cavern sound:-), and, to be frank, it made a total mockery of
>even the pretty decent hi-fi I had.

This is probably the case for almost any recordings: listening to them
off the masters in the room(s) where they were mixed is almost
certainly the closest you can get to what was intended (and don't
think I'm not just dripping with envy . . . :-).  But one thing to
keep in mind is that the Beatles' "take-home" copies were acetates (as
opposed to modern studio use of cassette for the same purpose, rough
mixes and the like) and would have had something closer to the "vinyl"
sound, so to some extent they were probably aware of the differences.
On the other hand, I'd bet they heard the music off the multi-track
masters far more times than they've ever listened to the final
products (i.e. the vinyl or CD or probably even the final mixes in
general).

>The sound was so different that it was barely recognizable as the
>music that I'd grown up with.  Give me that sound at home, however you
>do it and I'd be wellpleased.

>Mind you, it can be done, Paul has done it by building a replica of
>Abbey Road No2 studio.  I'd try that, but the neighbours may complain
>:-)

I'd not heard of this . . . care to elaborate?

#dan

Clever:         dbk@cs.umd.edu    | "Softly her tower crumbled in the 
Not-so-clever:  uunet!mimsy!dbk   |  sweet silent sun." - Nabokov
From: dennis@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Dennis Alstrand)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 00:05:25 GMT
Subject: Re: What's The New Mary Jane?
Organization: the HP Mtn.View Resp. Cntr.
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles

In rec.music.beatles, mk568652@longs.lance.colostate.edu (Mitchell Kotler) writes:

> Is " What's The New Mary Jane?" some recently discovered
> unreleased   Beatle tune that I am unaware of?  If so, where 
> can I get it?  Has anybody heard it?  Is it worth buying?

> Mitch  

I'll bet you get some different replies to this one.  It's available on
the Unsurpassed Masters 1968 boot.  Personally, I kind of like the verses
at the start, but then it breaks into hours, maybe decades, of weirdness 
for the sake of weirdness.  Some day, I vow I'll make it through the whole
thing - which is more than I can say for side two of Live Peace in Toronto.

However, the 1968 (as well as the 66/67) Unsurpassed Masters are completely
worth-while.  

Dennis
From: stevep@snowhite.cis.uoguelph.ca (Steve Portigal)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: MAILING LIST: Rolling Stones
Date: 16 Nov 1992 18:05:59 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


       Rolling Stones Mailing List created!

   UNDERCOVER@SNOWHITE.CIS.UOGUELPH.CA is an unmoderated mailing list for the
discussion of the Rolling Stones. Discussion topics may include: bootleg
trading, how-to guitar playing advice, information about recent books
such as Wyman's Stone Alone and others, perspectives on recent solo
albums by Watts, Richards and Wood and the upcoming album by Jagger.

To be added to (or removed from) the list: 
send mail to undercover-request@snowhite.cis.uoguelph.ca

This information will be appended to each mailing that goes out from the
list, so no one should have trouble remembering the admin address.

Looking forward to hearing from you all soon...

Steve Portigal

-- 
/*************************************************************\
|  Steve Portigal  University of Guelph  Guelph, Ontario      |
|  stevep@snowhite.cis.uoguelph.ca (519) 824-4120 x 3580      |
\*************************************************************/
From: hydroman@acca.nmsu.edu (Hydroman)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: Beatles E.P collection
Date: 21 Nov 92 03:02:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: nmsu.1992Nov21.030253.19478
Organization: New Mexico State University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

I recently purchased the Beatles E.P collection at the price of $175
(Australian) I was told by the saleswoman that there are only 300
hundred copies in Australia does anyone know whether this is limited
edition?

Does anyone also know where a copy of Revolution as performed on
The David Frost show can be obtained on CD/Tape/LP?

I bought the Beatles Get Back movie book at a second hand book shop
I have never seen it before. It was produced by Apple and I picked
it up for A$20 (about $12 US or so). Is this a good deal? Does anyone
know if this book is rare?

Thanks in advance,

Hydroman.
From: bad@pismo.sw.stratus.com (Bruce Dumes)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: Re: Musings on the Paul Is Dead scheme
Date: 19 Nov 92 13:33:36 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: pismo.sw.stratus.com

In article <1992Nov18.230210.3853@prime.mdata.fi> kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari Nenonen) writes:
>In the end of Strawberry Fields Forever John is saying slowly something
>that was in those days interpreted as 'I bury Paul'. If I remember right
>that was the beginning of the urban legend of Paul's death. Much later, in
>some radio interwiev John was asked about it and he said:'No, rasberry sauce
>was what I said'. And that's what it sounds like now when I know.
>


I think you meant "Cranberry sauce" not "rasberry sauce".  

Bruce


-- 
Bruce Dumes			| "Bruce is too obsessed with the Beatles"   |
Stratus Computer, Inc.		|   --comment on report card from Spring '64 |
bad@sw.stratus.com              
508-460-2816
From: barry@varian.com (Barry Nesmith)
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: Is "The Making of Sgt. Pepper" on video?
Date: 19 Nov 92 16:42:29 GMT
Organization: Varian Chromatography Systems

I'm curious if anyone knows whether this documentary that was shown in the
U.K. and more recently on the Disney channel is due for release in the
video market. Thanks for any help in this.

				Barry Nesmith
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles