From: masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: nihongo no shaberu gaijin
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:08:26 GMT
Organization: Frederick Cancer Research and Development Center

In article <MS-C.713679250.1103527590.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (Mark Crispin) writes:
.....
>Very few native Japanese are going to make sense out of:
>	Corey wuh nine diskkuh?
>	Toily wuh dough-koe diskkuh?
>[actually heard out of the mouths of fellow hen-na gaijin in To^kyo^]
.....

   I hope his fellow gaijin finally made it before it was too late 8-).

   From a native speaker's point of view, an accent or a pronunciation does
not seem to be a major factor for fluency of foreigner's Japanese as long as 
it's understandable.

   English appears to be a very strict language in terms of pronunciation,
and a slight difference in sound often makes a large difference. On the
other hand, the Japanese language is more flexible in that regard.
I do not intend to discourage those who are trying to master "natural"
accent, but unless you look like a Japanese, there may be some unavoidable
psychological effect for people to feel that your pronunciation is still
unnatural. Yes, I admit that this is a kind of racism if you want to call it so.

   If the definition of "fluency" is "capability to give an impression
that one's communication skill in a certain language is superb," or 
"the ability to make people think that 'Gee, this guy must have studied this
language a lot'," the standard should be different from language to language.

   In order to be a good English speaker, it seems to be essential to master a 
correct pronunciation and a natural accent, to speak smoothly and flawlessly,
to have an extensive vocabulary and to make use of a timely non-verbal
language (facial expression, gestrue etc.).

   For a foreign speaker to receive a respect and credibility for his/her 
Japanese skill, the appropriate and careful choice of the words might be
more important than the accent. For example, I wonder how many foreigners
could use appropriate "keigo" when it's preferable. In other words, a listener
might be more impressed by a good command of "keigo" with a relatively
strong accent than by a casual conversation with no accent. I'd like to also
mention that speaking too smoothly and too much could impress people
negatively. The Japanese language has some non-verbal expressions but in a 
different form from that of English (and probably other languages). 
If your purpose is to make your words influential, it is sometimes 
even better not to utter those words (what a paradox!).
A good vocabulary is helpful to impress others if used properly.
Mastering Japanese proverbs and using them correctly might also make you
look intelligent. 

   I, as a native Japanese speaker, am glad to know that people are 
discussing and interested in a very high level of achievement in learning
our language. However, I (and probably most Japanese) would appreciate any 
level of effort and any level of accomplishment and believe that there are 
as many kinds of "fluency" as the people who study Japanese.  

Good luck.

--Michiaki