From: narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana)
Subject: Seetham's Blasphemy or Cheap Tickets to VaikunTam (Excerpt)
Organization: Penn State Computer Science
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:52:45 GMT

In article <EfE7w0O00XsF8ZWWgi@andrew.cmu.edu> gb29+@andrew.cmu.edu (Guntur N Balaji) writes:
>
>
>In a previous article, narayana@oracorp.com (K. T. Narayana) says:
>
>>
>>The Bhakthi regime was a serious blow to the development of secular
>>Hinduism. Actaully idol worship as exemplified by the TN variety is
>>the worst communal form of Hinduism one can find. It rigidifies the
>>thought, sectarianizes the subjects, and worse makes people believe
>>that Moksha is something you can get by going to a temple. If one reads
>>the Thiruppavai, and the worship performed by AndaaL (we used to go
>>to the temple early morning every day in the Dhanurmasam period to
>>hear to the Thiruppavai), one clearly see that behind the facade
>>of total prapatthi of AndaaL (admirable that AndaaL is), there is a
>>total absense of any intellectualism. In other words, the religion
>>of the south immensely damaged the intellectualism and the secularism
>>of the Hinduism.
>     Hinduism is far more than Intellectual search for the salvation of
>the soul.  If you are well informed, you will know that there are
>several Yogas or Margas for realisation.  The Yoga which deals with
>intellectual methods is the Jnana Yoga.
>

If you are refering to the Smurti known as Bhagavad Gita, yes I know.

>     And one should not forget that Bhakti Yoga is as much a means
>for salvation as any other method.  It all depends on the mentality
>or make up of the individual, his wish to follow a particular way to
>achieve his end.  If Andaal chose the Bhaki marga, then there is
>nothing wrong or demeaning about it.  Depending upon a persons
>vasanas, and his environs. etc. he may propose to choose any path
>for his salvation.  This freedom given to an individual in Hinduism
>is the Secularism of Hinduism.  What else do you mean by secularism
>in a religion ?

The question is: did Andaal choose Bhakthi or Prapatti? I did not contest
Andaal's salvation! Neither do I contest that of Meera Bai!
I only contested the external nature of the worship. That is how Thiruppavai
was translated to us in our temple.  The scholar had to go an extreme
length (in our temple) to draw verses from Bhagavad Gita and show that 
the Prapatti of Andaal can be interpreted as the Bhakthi yoga!
But is it? Is it really? I posted some notes on sci earlier about image
worship, the external and meditative aspects of it.

>>
>>Thus the decline of Hinduism in the north, and the recent revival
>>of the brahminical vedantic tradition, along with the yagnas and
>>the yagas, is perhaps the best that we should hope for.
>>If it takes of, we will have more thinking Hindus than chest-beating
>>Hindus chanting "Ayappo-Swamyne-Ayappo" variety. Intellectualism
>>is the fulcrum of Hindu thought. It offered diversity, freedom thought,
>>and liberation of mind. More importantly, it offered individuality
>>of thought and action without the abiding structure.
>>
>>...kt
>>
>  If Ayappo Swamye is chest beating, then performing blind yagnas
>without understanding their purport is as much of the chest beating
>variety.  And I dont understand how performing an Yagna and offering
>sacrifices in the Agni is more intellectual than a song of devotion
>of Andaal.  If you look in more carefully you will find that Andaal
>probably excercises her head more than the ones doing the Yagna !
>

Depends if the yagna is performed blindly or with thought and content.

>     I appreciate that you said Intellectualism is the fulcrum
>of Hindu Thought.  Fine, but shouldn't an iota of what you preach
>be followed by you.  I mean an intellectual understanding for the
>evolution of the religion.  If you have heard the Bhaja Govindam
>song of Adi Sankaracharya, you will notice that no less an authority
>like him has suggested "Govindam Bhaja Mudamate".  With his intellectual
>approach and his understanding of the Advaita philosophy, he still
>persisted in writing works like Bhaja Govindam, Soundarya Lahari and
>commentary to Vishnu Sahasranamam and glorified the Bhakti marga as
>much as he glorified the vedantic approach.   And except for the
>commentary on Vishnu sahasranamam, the other two works were made by him
>at the fag end of his life.  If you really like the intellectual way of
>Hinduism, I am glad for you, but stop bashing the other proven and
>verified margas of salvation.

True! Sankara wrote Bhaja Govindam and commentaries on Gita!
But is Sankara's purport the same as Ramanuja's. Nay, they are
distinct. Sankara adamently discards Bhaagavatism; read Sankara
Bhasyam on Vedanta Suutras. Not so much because of the Bhakthi
component of it, but because of the Vyuuha component!

No I did not bash any mode of worship! You see, how exterior
and religious idol worship is? The mere mention of
the external worship of Ayappo or of the Ganesha's mushrooming
on every street corner of India leads to accusations of Bashing?
Where did my notes bash anyone! It only mentioned on external
worship, and the evolution of idol worship in the south.
Compared to the intellectualism of the Upanishadic and puranic
compisiton period, may be the image worship of the south
reduced intellectual pursuit of Hinduism and its further 
development. This is because of a specific allusion by Seetham 
that the north indians may choose to rediscover the Hinduism
and the south will eventually follow!

You seem to have missed a lot of text that preceeded my notes,
that which was deliberately, maliciously, desperately deleted
by the pilferer of SCT.

I hope I have clarified to you.
>
>Regards,
>
>Balaji/...

...kt