HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pat@rwing.UUCP (Pat Myrto)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Freedom, Social Responsibility, Individual Responsibility
Date: 25 Dec 92 07:10:31 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Totally Unorganized

In article <1992Dec24.180812.28678@Celestial.COM> bill@Celestial.COM (Bill Campbell) writes:
>In <4154@phred.UUCP> harryb@phred.UUCP (harry barnett) writes:
>> ...
>  ...
>Perhaps something akin to a proposal Robert Heinlein made in
>``Moon is a Harsh Mistress''.  It was something to the effect
>that all politicians have a small explosive device surgically
>implanted in their head and if enough constituants push a button
> -- it blows their head off.



Hah!  That would raise their eyebrows a bit - get their attention, albiet
for a very short time.  Mebbie if it were designed so it would start
buzzing at increasing pitches when it is within a few thousand buttons
of going bang...  wanna see a politician get some silly laws repealed
in record time?  Say in 5 minutes...  :-)

-- 
pat@rwing.uucp                                  (Pat Myrto),  Seattle, WA
                      If all else fails, try:
         ...!uunet!{pilchuck, polari}!rwing!pat
WISDOM:    "Travelling unarmed is like boating without a life jacket" 
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.general,alt.society.civil-liberty,misc.talk.poli
From: scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn)
Subject: Re: Freedom, Social Responsibility, Individual Responsibility
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 01:17:57 GMT

alpinist@eskimo.com (David Butler) writes:
: Since I am a hiker I have to respond to the idiocy of bringing the
: backcountry into this thread.  I guess it is a perfect example of the
: stupidity of hysteria behind these protecting people for their own
: good or cost of society laws.

That is what I was trying to bring up.  If you think that is idiocy, then
that is your choice.  Being a member of a mountain rescue group, I am well
aware of the hysteria.  That's why I brought it up.

: And besides didn't they pass a law that people needing rescue do have
: to pay for it?  I know that such a law was in serious consideration a
: few years back.

Not in Oregon, and I don't believe so in WA, either.

: On the other hand bicycling is one of the statistically most dangerous
: activities (right up there with snowmobiling).  The question is do helmets
: actually reduce injuries to a significant extent and is the cost savings
: of such a reduction really worth the trouble of the law and the restrictions
: on freedom.  If the law was done intelligently it would be in effect for a
: year as an experiment at which time if bicycle injuries were not significantly
: reduced then it would automatically be repealed.  Why not let the law since
: it is now in effect be a means of gathering statistics and we can then
: actually see in a year whether it is based on good facts or baloney.

That has been done in Oregon with the motorcycle helmet law.  I remember
seeing a newscast which stated that the number of serious head injuries
suffered by motorcycle riders in accidents went way down (the numbers
were quite significant, like >50%) after the helmet law went into effect.

I also saw a newscast which related the same kind of information wrt seat
belts.  Sorry I can't remember the actual figures.


Scott Linn
scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com
Xref: sparky seattle.general:4257 pnw.general:3044
From: donn@brat.wa.com (Donn Pedro)
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.general
Subject: Re: Freedom, Social Responsibility, Individual Responsibility
Date: 22 Dec 92 21:16:44 GMT
Organization: Tandemonium, Kent, WA

In article <1992Dec21.235231.23188@sequent.com> dickwin@sequent.com (Dick Winningstad) writes:
:In article <1992Dec21.210708.17518@hpcvca.cv.hp.com> scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn) writes:
:>Minor nit:
:>
:>It isn't *government* which is limiting personal freedoms in order to make
:>expenses lower; it's the *people*.  The majority of people voted these
:>seatbelt, helmet, etc. laws into effect, in order to decrease *their*
:>costs.
:>
:>Scott Linn
:>scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com
:
:
:Is what your saying, is that it is all right to limit the freedom of
:individuals as long as the majority says it's all right?

Well, even though one may have some problems with a law (like Measure 9),
it is the mandate of the people.  Right, Dick?

That wasn't much of a leap either.




         Donn Pedro ....................a.k.a. donn@brat.wa.com
	
	       "You talk the talk.  Do you walk the walk?"

		    There are no ordinary moments.
From: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Why CAN'T people drive 55?!
Date: 31 Dec 92 08:37:23 GMT
Reply-To: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Organization: Zortech, Seattle

In article <3040@uswnvg.uswnvg.com> hcorbin@uswnvg.com (Harold Corbin) writes:
/Why is it that people are always giving me dirty looks when they pass me on
/the highway and I'm driving 60 in a 55 MPH zone?  I get irritated and angry
/EVERY TIME some jerk tailgates me and flashes his/her brights fo rme to
/move over justbecause I don't have a TOTAL DISRESPECT for the LAW and I
/don't want to drive
/75 just to get the hell out of their way!

It is also the law:
	Keep right except to pass.
	Slower traffic keep right.
If there is a lane to the right of you, and you are blocking traffic, you
are legally required to move over to let them pass.
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.general,alt.society.civil-liberty,misc.talk.poli
From: davevh@microsoft.com (Dave Van Horn)
Subject: Re: Freedom, Social Responsibility, Individual Responsibility
Date: 26 Dec 92 08:00:58 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

Scott Linn writes:

>: On the other hand bicycling is one of the statistically most dangerous
>: activities (right up there with snowmobiling).

'Fraid not.  For adult cyclists, accidents and deaths per mile are about the
same as for driving a car (NHTSA figures).  On a deaths per hour of
participation basis, bicycling even without a helmet is statistically far
safer than, eg, rock climbing and hang gliding.  So if helmetless biking is
too dangerous to be legal, shouldn't rock climbing and hang gliding also 
be illegal?
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: griffenj@ssd.intel.com (Jeff Griffen)
Subject: Re: Freedom, Social Responsibility, Individual Responsibility
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Divison, Intel Corp.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 16:56:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.011757.5410@hpcvca.cv.hp.com>, scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn) writes:
|> alpinist@eskimo.com (David Butler) writes:
|> : Since I am a hiker I have to respond to the idiocy of bringing the
|> : backcountry into this thread.  I guess it is a perfect example of the
|> : stupidity of hysteria behind these protecting people for their own
|> : good or cost of society laws.
|> 
|> That is what I was trying to bring up.  If you think that is idiocy, then
|> that is your choice.  Being a member of a mountain rescue group, I am well
|> aware of the hysteria.  That's why I brought it up.
|> 
|> : And besides didn't they pass a law that people needing rescue do have
|> : to pay for it?  I know that such a law was in serious consideration a
|> : few years back.
|> 
|> Not in Oregon, and I don't believe so in WA, either.
|> 
|> Scott Linn
|> scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com

In Oregon general aviation pilots pay a user fee that is supposed to go towards
search and rescue operations, but I don't know how much of the cost this covers.

- jeff
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.general,alt.society.civil-liberty,misc.talk.poli
From: scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn)
Subject: Re: Freedom, Social Responsibility, Individual Responsibility
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 01:09:38 GMT

bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick) writes:
: 
: I seriously doubt that most people who vote for paternalistic laws have
: given any real thought to them. If they had, they'd realize that their
: own costs of government far exceed any monitary inconvenience they may
: suffer from the "wrong" they wish to make "right."

Probably.


Scott Linn
scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com
From: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: FREE CHOICE QUESTION
Date: 26 Dec 92 18:35:26 GMT
Reply-To: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Zortech, Seattle

In article <4124@phred.UUCP> harryb@phred.UUCP writes:
/And the bit about how it's keep SOCIETY from paying the costs?  An
/absolute masterstroke of propaganda!!!  The purpose is to keep the
/STOCKHOLDERS from paying the costs, you twits!

And where does the money come from that insurance companies pay out?
It comes from the insured.

Oh, and by the way, there are 30 million stockholders in America. This
does not include those invested indirectly in stocks via pension plans.
(I'm not sure if it includes mutual fund investors.)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: dietz@parody.Data-IO.COM (Kent Dietz)
Subject: Re: doomsdayer
Organization: Data I/O Corporation
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 19:20:09 GMT

In article <1993Jan2.180115.1271@kopachuk.uucp>, dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman) writes:

|> There's plenty of food.  Food rots in warehouses in this country while
|> the government pays farmers (who are going bankrupt because the market
|> price of what they produce is less than the cost of producting it)
|> not to grow crops for which there is no demand, and all the while more
|> and more productive land is being paved over for business parks - 
|> because its the cheapest land available.  This doesn't sound like
|> a plausible scenario in a world on the brink of starvation. The main
|> problem is one of distribution.  Look at Somalia.  That country could
|> easily feed its own people - but all the "powerful interests" seem
|> interested in is fighting to the death for political control of the
|> starving population.  *That's* not an *agricultural* problem.
|> 

I read an interesting discussion on the Somalia food crisis which appeared in 
the Seattle Times the day after the Marines went ashore.  Apparently the
main problem in Somalia is really the fault of the status system of the Somali.

The land there is suited to growing crops but there is no status associated
with farming!  The way a man rises in the clan society is by acquiring large
herds of animals, which require large tracts of arable land, which can not
then be used to grow crops.  The problem in Somalia is not really one of food
distribution or even clan warfare as much as the social values are not
conducive to combatting starvation.  Even if somehow Big Brother quells the
clan fighting and figures out how to distribute relief goods to the people
the long term problem will be very difficult to solve without extremely 
invasive social modifications.  Does the UN have the right to do such 
fiddling?  I suspect not, but ...

Also, "during" (not to suggest it is over) the Ethopian crisis a couple of
years ago, the ruling government *wanted* the people to starve, since much
of the opposition to the government came from the areas hardest hit.  If
I remember right, a large portion of the relief help ended up on the black
market, supplying the government with hard currency to purchase weapons.

This kind of terrorism is not restricted to Africa.  Remember Stalin's 
blockade of the Ukraine in the 20's (30's?) in which millions of people
died of starvation because he would not allow food to be sent there.  Man's
inhumanity towards man seems to be a mental defect of the beast.  What to 
do? <Shrug>

|> -- 
|> David Breneman     Sys Admin, Tacoma Screw Products, Inc. |  ____  ____  ____


Kent Dietz
Data I/O Corporation
From: sbarton@uswnvg.com (Sue Barton)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Christmas Lights
Date: 21 Dec 92 17:17:21 GMT
Organization: U S WEST NewVector Group, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

The area is called "Olympic Manor" and it is at NW 85 not NE 85th.
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: sml@plato.ds.boeing.com (Stuart Lewis)
Subject: Re: Who is Roy Ottis??
Organization: Boeing Defense & Space Group
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 01:47:01 GMT

In article <BzL0CL.Itv@wimsey.bc.ca> chrisp@wimsey.bc.ca (Chris Phillips) writes:
>Does anyone know who Roy Ottis (KXRX) is? A friend of mine thinks it's
>John Manard(sp?) but I don't think so. They talk at the same time sometimes.
>
>	Just Wondering
>	  Chris

Yes, it's John Maynard.  The trick is that a number of the "bits"
are actually scripted out by Robin and Maynard ahead of time, and
then Maynard records the Otis dialogue onto whats called a cart -
short for cartridge - same thing that commercials go on to (they're
sort of like 8-tracks in that they are continuous play (cueing
signals stop them at them end), but they are wider across and not as
deep).

Anyway, that's how they achieve simultaneuos dialogue between Otis
and Maynard.  If you really pay attention, sometimes you can tell
when he (Maynard) is doing the voice live, on the fly, and you can
"hear" more of the Maynard inflection.

(You may remember Charlie Brown and Clydie way back when on KJR -
same thing - Brown and Clydie were one in the same.  It's an old
radio trick)

Sorry to shatter a myth.

sml@plato.ds.boeing.com
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: bill@Celestial.COM (Bill Campbell)
Subject: Re: Freedom, Social Responsibility, Individual Responsibility
Organization: Celestial Software, Mercer Island, WA
Distribution: seattle
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 18:08:12 GMT

In <4154@phred.UUCP> harryb@phred.UUCP (harry barnett) writes:

......
:What we really need are laws with which it is possible make it
:personally VERY expensive for the assholes who enact such crap.
:Entangling them in legal proceedings only enables them now to tap the
:bottomless pit of taxpayer funds to defend themselves.  I mean make it
:*PERSONALLY* very expensive for them.  Maybe put a substantial amount
:of grief into their lives.  This might make them less willing to impose
:it on others.

Perhaps something akin to a proposal Robert Heinlein made in
``Moon is a Harsh Mistress''.  It was something to the effect
that all politicians have a small explosive device surgically
implanted in their head and if enough constituants push a button
 -- it blows their head off.

Bill
-- 
INTERNET:  bill@Celestial.COM   Bill Campbell; Celestial Software
UUCP:   ...!thebes!camco!bill   6641 East Mercer Way
             uunet!camco!bill   Mercer Island, WA 98040; (206) 947-5591
SPEED COSTS MONEY -- HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO?
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: markz@ssc.com (Mark Zenier)
Subject: Re: Freedom, Social Responsibility, Individual Responsibility
Organization: SSC, Inc.,  Seattle, WA
Distribution: seattle
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 20:38:20 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Donn F. Pedro (dfpedro@nv2.uswnvg.com) wrote:
: 
: :But I'm up for the same degree of police harrasment.
: 
: On that I agree with you 100%.  But what supposes the others are more 
: deserving of police harassment?  I'm not trying to read into your post,
: but it sure reads that way.

Claims are made by the pro-helmet posters that bicycling is a VERY 
DANGEROUS activity.  Which in my experience, (aside from crossing
railroad tracks ;-) ), it isn't.  But I observe a couple of groups that 
go out of their way to indulge in what I see as additional risks.
So I conclude that the dangers come from the different activities
these people indulge in.  And because of these activites, I'm going to
be inconvenienced by wearing a helmet or be the target of police 
"interest".

Mark Zenier  markz@ssc.wa.com
From: jammer@eskimo.com (Lyle Harwood)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: doomsdayer
Date: 2 Jan 93 01:55:48 GMT
Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <-
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

David Butler (alpinist@eskimo.com) wrote:
: In article <3047@uswnvg.uswnvg.com> rfisher@uswnvg.com (Robert Fisher)
writes:
: > Current estimates place the food cosumption volumes at a maximum in
: >sixty years from 1990.  This means that if every mouth was feed
evenly,and at
:                                         
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: >current growth rates, there will be just enough food for sustaining
life.  Afterthe year 2050, this will not be true.  Does anyone out there
have any senarios
: >that are not so gloomy?  Help me escape my pessimistic outlook!  I
know about 
: >environmental dangers that are considered to be genecide prior to
2050, but 
: >what about pure overpopulation estimates.
: 
: Your 'if' is a fantasy ideal (like frictionless planes).  There
already isn't
: enough food to sustain life in the real world at 'current' population
levels.
:  
: 
: -- 
: Dave                | Truth is the most valuable thing we have.
: alpinist@eskimo.com | Let us economize it. - Mark Twain

The final answer, I suppose, is "SO"?
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman)
Subject: Re: Who is Roy Ottis??
Keywords: Yes, yes
Organization: Tacoma Screw Products, Inc.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:49:33 GMT

In article <Bzo2vK.511@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> vanzwol@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Ted Van Zwol) writes:
>>Now that we [seem to] have this solved, who does the voices for Beave?
>
>I haven't a shred of physical evidence, but listening to it this morning,
>I really have to think it's Mike West from the morning show...well, that's
>the only time you'll hear the Beave anyways.  I think Mike does most of
>the voices of that little skit.
>                         ^^^^ new...
True - going way back to "Leave it to Beaver 1980" on KISW.  They
obtain the unique "modulation" of the voice by putting the tape deck
in queue mode and turning the reels by hand.  West is actually quite
a voice artist.  He does a dead-on Kasey Kasem.

-- 
David Breneman     Sys Admin, Tacoma Screw Products, Inc. |  ____  ____  ____
dcb@tacoma.uucp           |   SCREWIE the TSP CLOWN sez-  |   /   /___  /___/ 
 ..!uunet!tacoma!dcb      | "Zinc & cadmium plating stops |  /   ____/ / 
CompuServe: <DEAD>        |  rust & acts as a lubricant!" |
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: Mark Crispin <mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM>
Subject: re: Educational Game software 
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
To: "K.Y. Lee" <kylee@eskimo.com>
Organization: University of Washington
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:48:31 GMT

I do not think that Carmen Sandiego is too advanced for a 10-year-old who has
been properly raised.  That is, a 10-year-old whose parents are actively
involved in their children's education and don't just assume that the public
schools will take care of everything.

If on the other hand you assume the public schools will teach your kid
everything, then Carmen Sandiego is too advanced for a 17-year-old.  The
purpose of Carmen Sandiego is to assist a kid in ramping up on history or
geography, but the fundamentals have to be implanted.

I consider Carmen Sandiego an excellent gift for 10-year-olds.  Be prepared to
spend some time with the kid playing the game in the beginning.  The typical
public school-educated kid is totally clueless about how to use a reference
source, so you'll have to apply some remedial education on how to do this.
But, they generally pick up on it fairly quickly.

Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman)
Subject: Re: Good PANASONIC printer service center?
Organization: Tacoma Screw Products, Inc.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 17:02:06 GMT

In article <3034@uswnvg.uswnvg.com> hcorbin@uswnvg.com (Harold Corbin) writes:
>My Panasonic KXP-1124 24-pin dot matrix printer is on the fritz.  Anyone know
>a good place in the Seattle area for repairs? 

We've had good luck with Northwest Computer Support in Tukwila.  They
are near the corner of Andover Park E and Minkler behind Southcenter.
575-9511

-- 
David Breneman     Sys Admin, Tacoma Screw Products, Inc. |  ____  ____  ____
dcb@tacoma.uucp           |   SCREWIE the TSP CLOWN sez-  |   /   /___  /___/ 
 ..!uunet!tacoma!dcb      | "Zinc & cadmium plating stops |  /   ____/ / 
CompuServe: <DEAD>        |  rust & acts as a lubricant!" |
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: ray@Celestial.COM (Ray Jones)
Subject: FTC and Microsoft
Organization: Celestial Software, Mercer Island, WA
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:05:32 GMT

Enclosed is an article from the clarinet newsgroup that may be of interest
in the Seattle area.

> From: newsbytes@clarinet.com
> Newsgroups: clari.nb.govt,clari.nb.top,biz.clarinet.sample
> Subject:  ****Magazine Reports FTC Will Move Against Microsoft 12/18/92
> Keywords: Bureau-DEN
> Date: 18 Dec 92 20:54:04 GMT
> Message-ID: <NB921218.24@clarinet.com>
> Approved: cn@clarinet.com
> Lines: 38
> Status: O

REDMOND, WASHINGTON, U.S.A., 1992 DEC 18 (NB) -- Business Week
magazine, in its December 28th issue, says FTC investigators have 
concluded that the software company has engaged in anticompetitive 
actions. The magazine also reports that the investigators are 
preparing recommendations as to how to proceed against the company.

According to Business Week, the recommendations being prepared by 
the agency's investigators could include breaking up the company, 
altering the way its software is sold to computer makers, or 
isolating the divisions from each other. The latter move, if
adopted, would effectively have each division operating as a 
separate entity.

Business Week says the investigators focused on Microsoft's
"aggressive tactics" including the way it licenses its software to 
computer makers. The company reportedly has 95 percent of the 
operating systems market for personal computers powered by Intel 
microprocessors. The magazine also claims that the report alleges 
that Microsoft has unfairly used its dominance to gain an edge in 
development of such software applications as word processing 
programs and spreadsheets.

Rival software companies have complained publicly and apparently to
the Federal Trade Commission that Microsoft uses "predatory
practices" in selling its operating systems. The operating system is
the software which provides basic functions such as file management,
and is the foundation from which applications such as word
processing programs run. Allegations have also been made that
Microsoft dumped software at prices designed to drive other
companies from the market.

When contacted by Newsbytes late Thursday, a Microsoft spokesperson
would only say "No comment."

(Jim Mallory/19921218/Press contact: Christine Summerson, Business 
Week, 212-512-2882)


-- 
INTERNET:  ray@Celestial.COM   Ray A. Jones; Celestial Software
UUCP:   ...!thebes!camco!ray   6641 East Mercer Way
             uunet!camco!ray   Mercer Island, WA 98040; (206) 947-5591
The probability of one or more spelling errors in this missive approaches
Newsgroups: seattle.general