HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami)
Subject: Re: cba/nba?
Organization: Brotherhood Of Breath
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:20:10 GMT

stuart@apollo.hp.com (Stuart Troutman) writes:
>
>Ok, I still don't get it. This Monmouth guy, Alex Blackwell, gets signed by
>the Lakers, drafted #2 in the CBA by Wichita Falls, then traded to a different
>CBA team....all in the space of two days. Does this 2nd CBA team get to keep
>his rights, whether or not he stays on the Lakers roster?

Getting drafted by a team has nothing to do with the player -- he could
be in the NBA, the NFL, Japan or on the moon.

The CBA wants to make sure that no more than one of their teams is
negotiating with Blackwell.  So they hold a draft for HIS RIGHTS.  Now
there's only one team that holds his CBA RIGHTS.  It doesn't mean he's
on contract with that team; it doesn't mean he has to play in the CBA;
it just means that IF he decides to go to the CBA, then the only team
he can talk to is the one that has his rights.

Obviously, once he signs with the Lakers, his rights are worth a little
less, because he's a little less likely to play in the CBA.  Or maybe
not.  The Lakers seem to have more than 12 men on their current roster.

>How can a signed NBA player be drafted by the CBA? Is it legal for him to have 
>two separate contracts since the two leagues are two separate entities? Does
>a player simply decide if he wants to make himself eligible for both leagues?

The CBA can draft anybody.  Blackwell, Shaquille, Bill Russell, Miles
Davis.  It has nothing to do with the player.  And it's not a contractual
agreement or anything.  It's just an internal league thing -- which CBA
team will be negotiating with this guy IN CASE he wants to play in the
league.  (Should I explain this again?!)

It's probably legal to have two seperate contracts but it's impossible to
fulfill both of them.  But, again, HE DOESN'T HAVE A CONTRACT with no CBA
team yet.  Get it?  NO CONTRACT.

And he didn't MAKE HIMSELF eligible to the CBA.  He didn't have to!
They just up and drafted him.

A few years ago when the USBL started operations, one of their teams
drafted Bo Jackson.  Just for the P.R. value and the outside chance that
he will want to be a three-sport player.  You get the picture?  They can
draft anybody they want, no matter where they are, who they have
contracts with, and how unlikely they are to play in the league.  It's just
that they try to make sensible decisions and not throw those draft picks
on people who won't come to the league.



--Gidi



Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: dave@cs.sfu.ca (Dave Peters)
Subject: Re: Olympic nonsense
Summary: morality vs dollars?
Organization: CSS, Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:41:37 GMT

In article <4195@3cpu.rain.com> edrury@.UUCP (Ed Drury) writes:
>>(responding to an article by Andrew Markam P205 speaking of Jordan&Barkley)
>
> I agree with the basic premise, but excuse me if I don't applaud. What your
>saying is correct, however it also points to the fact that loyalty -- at least
>in this case -- goes simply to the highest bid.  A function, not of conviction
>or sense of rightness -- but of dollars and cents. It's not that I don't like
>it. It's that I don't care about it. I'll tell you something I don't like,
>though. A company who's advertisement for it's tennis shoes is simply an
>animation of a tennis court with the umpire's chair being blown up followed
>with the simple phrase, "Just do it."

  Two different factors at work here, no? It is possible that Barkley and
Jordan are purely motivated by the incredible dollar values of their respective
contracts with Nike and a possibly understandable disinclination to lose same.
But surely Barkley and Jordan might instead be motivated by *morality* as they
refuse to be seen dishonoring (in their possibly misguided opinions) a
contract they have signed? Given such a motivation, a seemingly pompous or
self-righteous complaint about the Reebok-USA uniforms might be understandable.
I fail to see basis for complaints about their actions.

  On the contrary, and as you say: Nike never seems motivated by morality.

> So while I like Jordan and Barkley, it's not the shoes. And they can put
>their loyalties where they like, which appears to be where the grass is
>GREEN. 

  Or, just possibly, they're both attempting the "morally correct" course of
action. Either way, it seems mostly irrelevant to the question of whether or
not I like the way they play basketball.

>
>[trailing stuff deleted]
>-- 
>   __
> /--   __/
>(___, (_/rury@3cpu.rain.com

dave.
From: csquared@coos.dartmouth.edu (C Squared)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Meeks == Lor
Keywords: I'ts over
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:01:55 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
Originator: csquared@coos.dartmouth.edu

In article <1992Aug18.150120.24198@bmerh85.bnr.ca> lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com 
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(edward.lor) writes at Tue, 18 Aug 92 15:01:20 GMT:
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>In article <1992Aug18.145810.23996@bmerh85.bnr.ca>, davem@uvmark.uucp 
                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>(Dave Meeks) writes at Tue, 18 Aug 92 14:58:10 GMT:
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>|> Ed,
>|> 
>|> [9 lines of apologetic drivel deleted]
>|> --
>|> David T. Meeks                    ||" We are jigsaw pieces, aligned on the
>|> VMark Software, Inc.              ||  perimeter edge,
>|> uvmark!davem@merk.com             ||  interlocked through a missing piece"
>|> davem%uvmark@merk.com             ||" ...This world is totally Fugazi"
>|> 
>
>Dave,
>
> [12 lines of apologetic drivel]
>--
>                                          Edward Lor
>                                          lor@cbnewsk.att.com

Why do I get the feeling that these were forged????
They were only posted from the same site 3 minutes apart.
No, that has nothing to do with it.

C Squared
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: matthew@base.cs.ucla.edu (Matthew Merzbacher)
Subject: Brian Williams collapses
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:21:44 GMT

According to today's LA Times (8/12/92)

Brian Williams collapsed at the scorer's desk during a LA summer 
pro league game yesterday night.  Williams was conscious and talking 
as they took him to the hospital.

The remainder of the game was cancelled.



Even though he's a stiff, I wish a speedy recovery to Williams and
hope that the collapse was caused by nothing more serious than low 
blood sugar.
--

Matthew Merzbacher	ARPA:	matthew@CS.UCLA.EDU
Moo - Moo Moo  		UUCP:	...!{uunet|rutgers|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!matthew
               		This time, *with* the oys
From: aco@fraser.sfu.ca (Alvin Milton Co)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Australias would heve beaten dream team
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:45:04 GMT
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada

c9111381@wombat.newcastle.edu.au (ROBERT BUCK) writes:

>There has been quite a bit of talk about teh american olympic baskeball
>team and how easily they won but you have to consider the fact that
>the U.S.S.R. and the Yugoslavian team weren't together as a complete
>force.

>I was disappointed with the teams performance after waiting three years
>to see them play. I think that the problem is that there is quite a bit
>of glamour and hipe that goes along with the N.B.A. so everyonbe thinks that
>it is the best league on earth but I strongly believe that the australian
>N.B.L. is a better hardcore league. see the aust league is more of a 
>blue collar than finess league and so doesn't get quite as much publicity

>I think the aust would have beaten the U.S. all over the court had they 
>played.
WHAT?  Are you kidding?

>They even look better on paper

>Luc Longely is aparently one of the biggest stars in the N.B.A
Biggest Stars? Which paper have you been reading?  National Enquiry?

>Andrew Gaze scores 44ppg as opposed to MJ 29ppg
Yeah?  But who's guarding Gaze?
>The Australians also have "LEEPING" LEROY Loggins, The general Phil Smyth
>and the thunderbolt Damian Keogh.

>They have more power, the elephant Andrew Vlahov would have too much strength
>for Barkley or Malone.

>You will probably read tyhis and think that it is B.S but I what both leagues
>you probably haven't seen the ausralians play. 

Yes, I haven't seen how australians play since they did'nt even make it to
the medal round in the Olympics!!!!


Alvin
From: saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu (Brian E. Saunders)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: The All "Home-State" Team?
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:20:01 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Madison

In article <e8ug03QP59xw00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> ronnie@uts.amdahl.com (Ronnie Townsend) writes:
>
>Where was Sean Kemp from? 

Elkhart, Indiana.  You know, despite Indiana basketball being so big, I
can't come up with a lot of CURRENT NBA players from that state.

I can think of:

Sean Kemp, Larry Bird, Scott Skiles, Rich Fox (sort of, played high school
ball in Warsaw, Indiana), Randy Wittman (Pacer benchwarmer), ?????

Help!  I should be able to know more than this.  Randy?  Perhaps some IU
hoop-expert could tell me?
-- 

Brian E. Saunders			saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Subject: Re: Who's The Best
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:02:51 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.031217.14591@techbook.com> jamesd@techbook.com (James Deibele) writes:
>
>>   Drexler is a choker. I haven't seen too much of him in
>
>You're a dork.  I haven't seen too much of you in this newsgroup, but
>that's OK, I'll make a snap judgment.  I hope it's about as accurate as
>your assessment of Drexler.  Drexler is the second best shooting guard
>in the league, and one of the best of all time.  I think he's a better
>passer and rebounder than Jordan, but not quite as good a defender and
>definitely not as good a scorer.   
    
    Drexler is a good rebounder, but he can't touch Jordan when it comes
    to passing. Drexler is a fair passer at best. He's great in the open
    court, but he's not a great shooter. He's a choker 'cause he takes
    stupid shots at crunch time. When you're team is in a tight game with
    less than a minute left, you don't want some idiot throwing up a
    20-footer with someone in is face. Drexler fouling out in key games
    at the end of the Phoenix series and beginning of the Chicago series
    was the best thing that could have happened to Portland. It put the ball
    in the hands of Danny Ainge who is money when the game is on the line.
    Every once and a while, Drexler throws up a prayer that is answered,
    but his shot selection sucks when the game is on the line.

>Against Chicago, his stablemate Porter flat disappeared.  Drexler
>did what he could against a team that includes what some are calling the
>best player of all time.  He couldn't do it.  Magic's Lakers beat the
>Celtics more times than the Celts beat the Lakers.  By your logic, Bird 
>is a choker too, right?
    
    Yeah, that's true. Porter did disappear and Drexler had a good series.
    And no, he couldn't do it all. But he's had a good amount of talent
    around him and he hasn't done it. But that isn't what makes him a choker,
    it's his shot selection. Bird (in his prime) took some wild shots, but
    he's one of the best shooters to ever play and he made the shots when he
    had to. Therefore Bird isn't a choker. 
    
    --salty

>--
>jamesd@techbook.COM    Voice: +1 503 646-8257 
>PDaXs gives free access to news & mail. (503) 644-8135 - 1200/2400, N81  


Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: wgr@rti.rti.org
Subject: Re: All North Carolina team
Organization: Research Triangle Institute, RTP, NC
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 15:20:09 GMT

In article <Ltf-t#A@engin.umich.edu> martyp@engin.umich.edu (Martin Pochmara) writes:
>And above that, how many players are currently in the pros from the
>state of North Carolina?
>I would bet less than ten......

You would be wrong.  You must have missed my earlier all-North Carolina
team, which consisted mainly of current NBA players.  Here's a list of
current NBA players who were born and/or grew up in North Carolina, with
their home towns.  I may have missed some.

Chucky Brown		Lenoir
Brad Daugherty		Black Mountain
Walter Davis		Pineville
Sleepy Floyd		Gastonia
Chris Gatling		Elizabeth City
Kenny Gattison		Wilmington
Michael Jordan		Wilmington
Danny Manning		Greensboro
Nate McMillan		Raleigh
Jerrod Mustaf		Whiteville (born there)
Delaney Rudd		Hollister
Charles Shackleford	Kinston
Trent Tucker		Tarboro (born there)
Mitchell Wiggins	Lenoir County
Dominique Wilkins	Washington
Buck Williams		Rocky Mount
Kenny Williams		Elizabeth City
James Worthy		Gastonia
Danny Young		Raleigh

Trent Tucker was born in North Carolina and raised in Michigan.

I'm sure there are other states that have produced more current NBA
players, but you could make a pretty good team from this group.  Six
of them have been NBA all-stars.
From: strauss@uncavx.unca.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: DREAM TEAM TAPES
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:10:51 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
Nntp-Posting-User: strauss

In article <1992Aug11.160603.21000@u.washington.edu>, jb@biostat.washington.edu (Jim Berman) writes:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anybody have tapes of all the Dream Team's 
> Olympic games?  Although I don't have a VCR (yet), I
> will someday and I want this for my upcoming library.
> 

I taped all of the games after the first 2 in Portland. I'm gonna
savor these after the next Olympics when our 60% college team
gets whupped by Angola!

Bob Strauss
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: martyp@engin.umich.edu (Martin Pochmara)
Subject: ALL STATE OF MICHIGAN TEAM!!!!
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 19:18:32 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

Ok, here's a team that would bring home the GOLD with out a doubt....
These are current NBA players......would destroy any other National team...

Magic Johnson 		OK, so not always current! :)
BJ Armstrong		Could teach croatia a thing or two!
Dan Marejle (sp?)	Hard Worker! All-star
Derek Coleman 	 	Radja learns how to body up	
Glen Rice		Has to shoot with eyes closed!
Loy Vaught		My team role-player!
Terry Mills		A little lazy...but if he's playin' for GOLD!!!
Anderson Hunt		He has to shoot left handed!
Roy Tarpley		NO DRUGS NO DRUGS NO DRUGS
Victor Alexander 	NO FOOD NO FOOD NO FOOD NO FOOD
Mike Peplowski		needs speed, but will be project for NBA team
Jeff Grayer		Can shoot the lights out!
Matt Stegengia (sp?) 	He can try out for the NBA, he'll play with KUKOC in
			the BS leagues in Europe 
Charles Thomas		Another Solid role-player
Mark Macon		Can shoot the lights out!	
Negale Knight		Can shoot the lights out!	
Doug Smith		He'll put the body on you!
Anthony Peeler		No Drugs No Drugs No Drugs
Steve Smith		All-Star
Grant Long		Excellant Worker! 
Lorenzo Neely	 	Solid Guard!


(I am sure that I am missing players in the NBA from the state of Michigan)
and add to that......current college players.....

Chris Webber		Could go pro when he wants....
Jalen Rose		Could go pro when he wants....needs some work though
Voshon Leonard		Plays for Minnesota...will make all-big 10 as a soph
Shawn Respert		Plays for Michigan State-all-big 10-will go pro when
			he wants to....can shoot the lights out...
		              
And a host of others that would kick the shit out of any national team....
From: edrury@3cpu.rain.com (Ed Drury)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Blazer News
Date: 23 Aug 92 00:46:06 GMT
Reply-To: edrury@.UUCP (Ed Drury)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Garden Lane Software

In article <1992Aug22.221250.22146@leland.Stanford.EDU> terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU (Terry Wong) writes:
>In article <4209@3cpu.rain.com>, edrury@3cpu.rain.com (Ed Drury) writes:
>The San Francisco Chronicle earlier reported that the deal was for
>over $600,000 for the first two years of the contract guaranteed.
>The last year was said to contain many incentives based on playing time
>and other considerations.  If Elie met those objectives, the contract
>was reportedly worth nearly $1 million.  Your arithmetic is a little bit
>off here.  Even if Elie made $600,000 per annum with no pay increase,
>that would add up to 1.8 million for three years.  If a 30% increase was
>in effect, the total would $2.4 million over three years.

 No, my years. Only the first two are guaranteed, as you point out.
$600,000 + a 30% increase for the first year would make his contract
worth $1,381,866.63. But then again, his salary was undisclosed.




-- 
   __
 /--   __/
(___, (_/rury@3cpu.rain.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Subject: Larry the Legend -- Retired
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:47:26 GMT

I was told by a co-worker that Larry Bird announced his retirement this
morning.

Jim
From: xjam@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU (The Crossjammer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Debunking the standard myth was Re: Couple of thoughts..
Date: 13 Aug 92 10:39:18
Organization: University of California, Berserkeley
	<1992Aug12.000312.20185@msc.cornell.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cork.cs.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: hillyard@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP's message of Wed, 12 Aug 1992 00:03:12 GMT

>>>>> "Sean" == Sean Edward Hillyard,F7 Clark,50649, <hillyard@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP> writes:
	[whole bunch of stuff deleted]
> I never claimed that there were more black bball players. But I am
> definitely willing to wager that there are more *hours* put in by the
> average black bball player during his teens than the average white player.
> Why? Simply because African-American men have a whole culture built around
> the playground and prowess in bball. Not due to any bunk about fast twitch
> muscle.

  Sean> There are a lot of whites in Indiana who might disagree with you.

Sure I recognize that white people in Indiana (and Kentucky) play a lot of
bball. But match those against people in NY, MI, MD, DC, VA. The
difference comes in states like CA where a lot of quick, tall, white guys
hit the beach and become vball players. Their counterparts in Oakland and
LA are still hooping. Average hours in favor of African-Americans.

  Sean> You named the thread 'debunking the standard myth' (I would have stayed out
  Sean> if not for that title, I've ignored it every other time its come up).  I 
  Sean> figured I'd play devil's advocate and let you do it, apparently you have no
  Sean> real information or references in which to do it with, and the anecdotal 
  Sean> evidence I've seen even seems to support the myth. 

Well, I guess it's going to be impossible to dissuade you on the net. But
if anecdotal evidence can convince you, don't take my own. Troop down to
your nearest pickup court and ask many of the black players there (if there
are any) when they started playing and how many of their friends played and
why? Ask them if they ever considered playing anything outside of the major
sports and maybe track? Ask the same of the white players? I'm fairly sure
that will convince you.

And in the lack of evidence regarding your hypothesis, which you admit, why
don't black athletes results get the same rationale as white athletes? Why
when we don't really know if there are radical racial differences don't
black athletes get to claim their success from hard work?


--
xjam@cork.Berkeley.EDU  	Fiiiive Thousand Boomin Watts...... -The JBeez

They can't come on and play me in prime time, 	    | Free Millipede coin op
Cause I know the time, cause I'm gettin' mine.	    | and House music at my
I get on the mix late in the night... -Public Enemy | place! Drop by sometime.
From: csquared@coos.dartmouth.edu (C Squared)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Self Restaint
Keywords: Bird Shooting Laundry room
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:47:29 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
Originator: csquared@coos.dartmouth.edu


OK, Larry Bird retired, and I'm really bummed.

I wore my Bird shirt today, even though it is about 2 sizes too small, in
honor of him.

So I meet this guy in the laundry room.  We get to talking about Bird.
How good he was, etc.  And then the guy says:

I think the only guy who could shoot better than him is PAXSON(!?!?!?)

I didn't want to argue.  Actually, I wanted to laugh.  I compromised, and
just walked away.  Then I laughed.

C Squared
From: msw10@nepenthe.as (Michael S. Wong)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: ALL STATE OF MICHIGAN TEAM!!!!
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:40:26 GMT
Reply-To: msw10@nepenthe.as
Organization: Sun Microsystems


list of Michigan stars not included.

Are you serious? you couldn't make a team of 12 from these guys that would
beat John Thompson's team in '88, not to mention Lithuania or Croatia.

Michael Wong
msw10@ras.amdahl.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: martyp@engin.umich.edu (Martin Pochmara)
Subject: Re: ALL STATE OF MICHIGAN TEAM!!!!
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 16:43:08 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor


>list of Michigan stars not included.
>
>Are you serious? you couldn't make a team of 12 from these guys that would
>beat John Thompson's team in '88, not to mention Lithuania or Croatia.
>
>Michael Wong
>msw10@ras.amdahl.com
>

John Thompson's team in '88 choked bigger than any team I can remember
other than the '80 Russian hockey team. They had a bunch of YOUNG
college players that didn't have enough experience together. They were
still BETTER than Yugo (they were a country then) and Russia (they too
were a country then). If they played ten games against them, I would bet
that they would win 8 or 9 of them. They didn't win when it counted....

Now, you're saying a team Michigan line-up like this couldn't beat Yugo, 
Russia, or their teams today?????

Magic Johnson (one of the best players ever)   6'9 PG
Dan Marjele (NBA All-Star)		       6'8 PF
Glen Rice (Star of NBA Play-off team....will be All-Star next year)6'9 SF
Derek Coleman (Solid Center in NBA)		6'10 C
Steve Smith (great player, scorer, shooter, speed, etc....)6'6 SG

with a bench seven deep of solid NBA (that's the real league,
remember????) starters. Croatia has one NBA starter on their
team with Petro, one potential starter with Kukac (although
he wouldn't start now, maybe in a few years), and one
NBA 12th man, and a rest of players who aren't in the same
league with the NBA. The game(s) would be no contest. Team
Michigan would win. So would a number of other state teams....

I chose Croatia because they are the best basketball outside
the US, but simply not in the same class, planet, world,
or solar system! ;)

What does everyone else think?

					Marty Pochmara
					CAEN
					@caen.engin.umich.edu


    
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro