HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lmc@cs.cornell.edu (Linda Marie Competillo)
Subject: Re: TANGENT: Is sarcasm appropriate for Christians?
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:10:47 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.224235.6453@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante) writes:
> Yes, this is a serious question, and I hold no position either way. I'm
> curious what others think. I recently read someone's post about mr. 
> jason steiner being one who uses sarcasm in his discussions. I
> get the impression that the person who was commenting did not like
> the use of sarcasm.
>
> Well, I'm quite a talented user of it myself, when I want to. And
> some of my favorite albums of all time (early Steve Taylor: I want
> to be a clone, Meltdown) are just loaded with it. And yet sometimes I
> get hte feeling that it is not a good thing for a Christian to do --
> I'm not sure why; perhaps because I've been listening to a radio talk
> show host who seems to make his points by ridiculing his opponents. 
> 
> My initial feeling is that sometimes sarcasm is appropriate, especially
> if directed towards ideas rather than people. But I'm at a loss to
> figure out when it IS appropriate.
>
> Comments please (straight answers, please).  
>

"A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth good things 
and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall 
give account thereof in the day of judgement.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be
condemned."
                 Matthew 12:35-37

Also, Ephesians 5:4, I believe, talks about "course jesting", but I don't 
have it memorized well enough to quote it right here and now.

IMHO, if the shoe fits....................

I can see your point, though, John, about the possibility of directing it at
ideas rather than people. The problem, though, is that most people do not 
exercise that sort of control/differentiation. Most of what I've seen here on
this group is most assuredly directed at people (no names mentioned) and is 
very clearly unkind and uncalled-for. WE are also admonished in James over and
over again to "tame our tongues" and I think it might have been Stacey who
posted a lovely collection of Proverbs on this topic. I was so appreciative 
of that, BTW, that I printed it and hung it on my bulletin board.
I guess I just think it's better to say what you mean and mean what you say
so that your communication is honest and clear and leaves no room for offense
or misinterpretation.

Linda
-- 
Linda Competillo
lmc@cs.cornell.edu
From: bsou@cs.arizona.edu (Brandon S. Ou ~{E7OHIz~})
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Album Review:  Michael W. Smith  "Change Your World"
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:54:45 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <4edV1oa00WB78Thw9B@andrew.cmu.edu> st0o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Steven Timm) writes:

>The sounds of this album are a Michael W. we've never heard before and
>hopefully will never hear again.  The strong keyboard lines and

Maybe it's just me, but this album just doesn't sound like MWS.
Maybe it's the changed style of music, or the lyrics...

>traditional harmonies that mark his music are a thing of the past. 

I agree.

>The best song on 
>the album is the re-make of "Friends" but this is marked by all-male backing
>vocals by the people who are his band and musicians on both of his albums
>(Harris, Rodriguez, Kirkpatrick)

The remake is really not that great, sounds like techno music to me.  :-(

>and "Color Blind" providing most of the fireworks here.  But even so 
>the God-and-Jesus meter is turned down a couple of notches.

How about turned OFF?

>is Smith's worst album since "The Live Set."  But on a bad day he's better
>than most people at their best, and although it's not a great album,
>it will provide much listening enjoyment for a long time to come.

Maybe...taking "I will be here for you" and "Somewhere, somehow" into
consideration.


Brandon
From: gt6223b@prism.gatech.EDU (Jerry B. Ray)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Mark Heard
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:04:28 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

I don't know if this has been posted yet, so i'll do it.

Mark Heard died of heart failure on Sunday, August 16.  He was buried in 
Macon, GA on August 19.

JRjr
-- 
'Hear the tale of a fallen people, destined to wander their broken land.
Their eyes are vacant, full of empty meaning, and what they're missing they
just don't understand.  Beyond the dark horizon, out where the people are
crying, a Morningstar will be rising, rising to show us the way...' Whiteheart
From: rich.bellacera@amail.amdahl.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: *Spoiler*
Date: 29 Aug 92 05:34:05 GMT
Return-Path: <amail.amdahl.com!rich.bellacera@juts.ccc.amdahl.com>







Jesus is coming back!







Actually this was a "test", but I didn't want it to be completely annoying.

I hope this works.
-Rich
From: daphne@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Amy Kruse)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Christian critique of dance?
Date: 31 Aug 92 13:40:25 GMT
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.

In article <DJM.92Aug30145953@frob.eng.umd.edu> djm@eng.umd.edu (David J. MacKenzie) writes:
>Anyone know of a Biblically based critique or perspective of dance?
>I've found books on art and music from a Christian perspective, but
>nothing on dance.  Anyone have any leads?

Well, at my church at school I am part of a liturgical dance group that dances
during the services on occasion.  We do movement to the readings from the
Bible, or we do dances to praise songs.  The best dance we ever did was on
Palm Sunday to a tune called "Rise Up, Jerusalem"  WE just felt that it would
be a good way to praise the Lord with our bodies.  Sure, there are people in
the church who are a little taken aback by the dancing.  And, people are still
a little stiff in their seats when it comes to participating (like swaying
with the music)  But overall, it seems to have a good response.  I really like
liturgical dance as it is called, and there are many books out on it.  I
suggest that you write to the Sharing Company in California.  They have many
books on the relevance of dance in the Sunday worship and how it canbe
incorporated.  I bought a book called "The Spirit Moves" and it has given me a
lot of ideas about meditations and prayers that I can create through dance.
You don't necessarily need music to make it a dance, because the movements we
do to the readings are very much dancing but without music.  I would love to
discuss this topic further with anyone. You can take it to email or post with
a tangent if you want.  Amy Ann
Xref: sparky rec.music.christian:6452 rec.music.cd:6244
From: bsou@cs.arizona.edu (Brandon S. Ou ~{E7OHIz~})
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian,rec.music.cd
Subject: Michael W. Smith, at last!!!
Date: 1 Sep 92 23:27:26 GMT
Followup-To: rec.music.christian

At last!!!  Michael W. Smith's "Change Your World" is in my
CD player and running!!!  I LOVE IT!!!
I have noticed that there are a few more new names in the credits,
most noticeably Diane Warren (wrote for Chicago, Michael Bolton etc..)
and David Foster.  I guess Smitty did "cross-over" more than I thought.

Nevertheless, I love the album, and would recommend all fans of MWS
to go get the alubm NOW!  :-)  As for "Friends", hey, it's my all-time
favorite, and surely I don't mind him remaking it!


Brandon
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: gritter@cs.purdue.EDU (Carl R. Gritter)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Michael Card: The Word -- in stores NOW!
Date: 29 Aug 92 22:21:49 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University

Michael Card's much awaited album on the Old Testament prophets is
finally out!  This is the third of the OT trilogy "The Beginning",
"The Way of Wisdom", and now "The Word".

I've only heard it twice but, from what I've heard, it doesn't
disappoint at all.  Excellent!

You'll probably be hearing "So Many Books..." on the radio soon (if
not already) as it seems like the most "commercial" and also the one
that found my heart immediately.

This album, as previous albums, has alot to say and its worth just
reading the lyrics of the songs.  The main theme seems to be brought
out in a song called "Then They Will Know" (lyrics included at the
end) about God's yearning for us to walk with Him and be His people.
The album also talks about how we need to use our eyes and ears to see
and hear the message God has brought and is bringing us.  After all,
what are eyes and ears for anyways.

Other songs which I liked immediately were "Song of Gomer" (which he
sang in his concert here in Lafayette 10 months ago), "Will You Not
Listen" (a great "a cappella/chorale" type song), and "I Will Bring You Home".

Carl

	Then They Will Know
	-------------------

I will speak
I will wait
I will send prophets among them
That they might hear
That they might see
And understand how much I love them

Then they will know that I am Father
They they will know I am Lord
They'll walk with Me
And be My people
I'll walk with them as their God
as their God

I will strike
I will scourge
And carry out vengeance upon them
But I will heal the wounds I make
And tenderly take them back to me

Then they will know that I am Father
They they will know I am Lord
They'll walk with Me
And be My people
I'll walk with them as their God

This is heaven
This is salvation
This is their great hope and Mine

He will come
My own Son
A Word faithful hearts can't help hearing
And by His death
With His last breath
A Father's forgiveness comes flowing
	
Then they will know
That I am Savior
I am Redeemer and Friend
Immanuel
The God who is with them
The God who gives all He can

He is salvation
He is the kingdom
To know Him is paradise

Then they will know that I am Father
They they will know I am Lord
I am Lord

Words by Michael Card/Music by Scott Brasher -- There are many Bible
references that accompany the lyrics printed in the CD liner which I
have not included.
From: ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.j.whitman)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Tangent:  Song of Solomon
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:43:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnews.1992Sep2.154313.11675
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Aug31.212922.21868@rambo.atlanta.dg.com> wpr@atlanta.dg.com (Bill Rawlins) writes:
 
>    The most common interpretation of the SONG OF SOLOMON is that it explains
>     the love between Christ and the church (and vice-versa) in the
>     analogy of the love between man and wife.
>    The New Testament calls the church "the bride of Christ".
>     Just as many of David's Psalms are both poetic and prophetic,
>     so is the Song of Solomon.

I agree that the Song of Solomon is often interpreted as an analogy for the 
love of Christ and the Church.  It's interesting to note, though, that
this interpretation was first proposed by Origen, a fourth century
theologian.  In other words, twelve hundred years went by after the 
boook had been written, and 300+ years went by in the history of the
church, before somebody figured out what the book was supposedly all
about.  

Origen was kind of a strange guy (he made himself a eunuch, for example,
so he wouldn't be tempted by those evil, lascivious fourth century
babes), and had a hard time dealing with down-and-dirty fleshy
stuff like sexual intercourse and body odor.  So it's not too
surprising that he would attempt to "spiritualize" the Song of 
Solomon.  It couldn't *really* be about physical love, could it?
It must be an allegory of Christ and the Church.

Well, I have no problems if people want to read the book that way.
I just think it should be noted that Jews have spent the last three 
thousand years and the Christian church spent the first three hundred 
years of its existence reading the book as an erotic love poem.  I
*like* the fact that a poem about physical love found its way into
Scriptures, and I very much appreciate the sanctity and esteem that
God seems to hold for that kind of love.  You can read it as an
allegory if you want to.  But I like the down-and-dirty parts just
fine, and I like the fact that God considers them holy.

>             ==========================================================
>            //  Bill Rawlins            <wpr@atlanta.dg.com>        //
>           //  Data General Corp       "My views are my own"       //
>          //  Norcross, GA                                        //
>         ==========================================================

Andy Whitman
AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus, Ohio
att!cblpn!ajw  or
ajw@cblpn.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: P.Grey@student.utas.edu.au (The DOK)
Subject: MORTIFICATION
Organization: University of Tasmania
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 05:44:33 GMT

     Anyone in Melbourne catch Mortification at the Sarah Sands Hotel
a couple of weeks ago? Or maybe the guys with Deracination and 
Discarnated at the Royal Arms (?) Hotel a week after?
     Being stuck down here in Tasmania is a real bummer musicwise!
Man, I'd love to be back home in Victoria...........
     Don't worry U.S., Mortification is trying to leave our shores 
for yours to tour. Get ready for some really gooooood metal!!! B.T.W.
Steve has mentioned that they are trying to get to Europe to tour as
well.
     Well, I think I'll just go off and cry about being stuck down here,
where nobody wants to tour (Aussie , U.S., anyone!), sniff.
                 The DOK


      The story's end/We may never see......    To Be Continued.....
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: ctv3943@rigel.tamu.edu (A friend of the idname to the left...)
Subject: Re: TANGENT: Is sarcasm appropriate for Christians?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 01:59:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.224235.6453@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante) writes...
> to be a clone, Meltdown) are just loaded with it. And yet sometimes I
> get hte feeling that it is not a good thing for a Christian to do --
> I'm not sure why; perhaps because I've been listening to a radio talk
> show host who seems to make his points by ridiculing his opponents. 
> 
> My initial feeling is that sometimes sarcasm is appropriate, especially
> if directed towards ideas rather than people. But I'm at a loss to
> figure out when it IS appropriate.
> 
> Comments please (straight answers, please).  

I am somewhat "gifted" with an ability to use sarcasm, also.  I have learned
from some very difficult situations that it has to be kept in check.  I do not
think that sarcasm is evil, but if used as a verbal weapon it can be very, very
dangerous.  I try to only use it as a humorous interpretation of the situation
or idea being discussed, but never as an argument in itself, unless my argument
is 'Look at how silly this sounds if you think about what is being said.'

If anyone disagrees with me on this, please feel free to Email me (include 
'Sean' in the subject line to insure it gets to me).  I would be willing 
to completely drop sarcasm if someone had a valid argument for it.

Follow Him!!!
Sean P. Tompkins

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante)
Subject: Personal Message for Bob Miller at HP  
Keywords: Looking for your address  
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:29:22 GMT


Bob Miller, I have a letter from you that I'd like to respond to. But
for some reason I can't get a valid address when I hit "reply" in 
response to your letter. It just comes back as an invalid address.
Please send me a letter with your address/signature so I may reply
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
john r la plante                    calling from the Ohio State University
jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  political analysis done while you wait


Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: ctv3943@rigel.tamu.edu (VICKERS, CHARLES TYLER)
Subject: Re: Christian Video Shows (was: Phil Collins- talking to Jesus)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 23:00:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.142936.11179@den.mmc.com>, jerdman@evans.den.mmc.com (ERDMAN) writes...
>> As anyone seen some of the new Christian video shows out like;
>> a. Edge TV
>> b. ZTV
>> c. CCM TV

>The best CCM vids come from Lightmusic. Tom Green Knows what he is doing. They
>get a lot of videos in a half hour.  The only gripe would be he likes to show
>his in house band singing or B.E. Taylor. They are ok, but I'd rather see the  \
>vids.

>Any responses welcome.
>Erdy 


Tom Green's Lightmusic is definitely one of the best.  He always mixes in
a good variety, and has  a lot of the new stuff out.

The only other one I've found that I like better is Real Videos.  I forget
which station it is on, but I seem to remember it being TBN.  It comes on
here Saturdays at Midnight(Central Standard), and is one hour long, no 
commercials, and is hosted by a different musical artist each week.
One straight hour of CCM videos is amazing...  
Has anyone seen ZTV?  Wasn't it supposed to be a 24 hour thing??

Any info appreciated.
-Sean

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
?Sean P. Tompkins  ??  "Questions are not a rejection of prior beliefs, they  ??
?by way of         ??    are merely a backup of an existing hypothesis."      ??
?ctv3943@rigel.tamu.edu                             -me                       ??
?(make sure to include my name in the subject line if you mail me...          ??
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (Scott Aaron)
Subject: Re: Is music amoral??
Reply-To: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:05:49 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.163642.1379@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, noel@crs.cl.msu.edu (Noel Estabrook) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.203742.426@news.cs.brandeis.edu> aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
>>How about "Dream On" then?  I referred to it before and got no response.  Greg
>>Volz didn't change the lyrics or the music when he performed it.  The only
>>thing that changed was the performed and the context in which the song was
>>peformed, which changed the listeners expectations of the song.  If the song
>>can be used in a "Christian" setting, how can it be evil?
>
>I would probably have a hard time with this.  If nothing else, it could be
>evil in the sense that it could cause some to stumble (i.e. ME).  With my
>history of drug addiction, etc, this song brings back some very unpleasant
>memories, and as such would not edify me in the least, in fact, it could
>cause some harm...

Obviously, then, it would be bad for you.  But does that make it bad for me?
Or, bad in general?  Not all music is for everyone and certainly some music
would cause problems, such as you describe.  But, the fact that certain bands
and/or songs would be bad for some does not make it bad for all.  The verse I
have refered to several times says that if you think something evil, then to
you it is.  The key is that to you (and I'm sure many others), secular rock
would be evil because of the associations with your past.  However, to many
others (like myself), the music has no such connotations and is simply good
sounding, interesting music.  I would not listen to such music around you
out of respect and brotherly love but there would be nothing wrong with 
listening to it in other situations.  

From your own statement, it is the associations the music has with your past
that makes the song evil, not the music itself.

  -- Scott @Brandeis

                           I asked Jesus,
                     "How much do you love me?"
                     "This much," He answered;
                        and He stretched out
                         His arms and died.
From: rhm@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Miller)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:49:43 GMT
Subject: Re: Word suspends Warnke sales
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian

I'm going to move any of my own comments to the "Accountability in CCM"
fork of this thread. This Word...Warnke title doesn't invite the discussion I 
encouraged in the basenote. I'd encourage y'all to do likewise...

Bob Miller rhm@hpfirhm.fc.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: cee1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Charles Evans)
Subject: 10 days...
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 02:43:58 GMT

5 days until MWS's new album is out.. does anyone know the title?

oops 9 days :)

--
+--------------------+-----------------------+------------------------+
|  Charles E. Evans  |  cee1@ra.msstate.edu  |  All things are green  |
|    iDLE CHATTEr    |  cee1@MSSTATE.BITNET  |  unless they are not.  |
+--------------------+-----------------------+------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: lwv26@cas.org (Larry W. Virden)
Subject: Re: Accountability in CCM
Followup-To: rec.music.christian
Reply-To: lvirden@cas.org (Larry W. Virden)
Organization: Nedriv Software and Shoe Shiners, Uninc.
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 11:28:12 GMT

In article <87307@netnews.upenn.edu> crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
:In article <mjenkins.715002506@cunews> mjenkins@alfred.carleton.ca (Michael Jenkinson) writes:
:>
:
:Should Christian musicians be held accountable by their recording companies
:in addition to their churches?  What guidelines should said companies use,

Aren't Christians to be responsible to one another?  If a Christian record
company does something illegal having nothing to do with the artist, is
that grounds for cancelling a contract?  What if the mail boy at the record
company lies - is that grounds?  How far do we want to go AWAY from Christ's
command to love one another and to serve one another and towards accusations
and judging one another?

:if so?  If a musician gets a divorce, for example, is that grounds for 
:canceling a recording contract?  

I am confused here - when did getting a divorce become a Biblical sin?
I was sure I remembered reading about divorce laws in our bible study of
the original laws from God a few weeks ago and I know I studied some writings
of Paul telling folk of some limits for and against divorce in the New Test.

As for acceptable sins, I assume we want to add foolish talking and over
eating, both of which are mentioned in the N.T. as sins, right?


-- 
Larry W. Virden                 UUCP: osu-cis!chemabs!lvirden
Same Mbox: BITNET: lvirden@cas  INET: lvirden@cas.org
Personal: 674 Falls Place,   Reynoldsburg, OH 43068-1614
America Online: lvirden@aol.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: johnt@meaddata.com (John Townsend)
Subject: Re: U2's denomination
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:48:05 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <Bu0ACw.1z8@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, djn20624@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Danielson) writes:
|> 	Hi, I am the original poster, and I am NOT going to the U2 concert here
|> in Urbana, IL.  Not because I would be offended at what they say, but the fools
|> CANCELLED their concert.  
|> 	They (being U2 I guess) had hoped to sell 70,000 tickets, but only 
|> managed to sell 25% of that.   This is odd considering that Madison, WI sold
|> out in only one day.  I wonder if the $30 per ticket had anything to do with
|> the low number of sales.
|> 	I had 11th row seats too.  Oh well, guess I can buy their CD with the 
|> refund.

Wow, even Intervarsity's tri-annual conference at Urbana does better than that.
Sounds like they've really had an impact on the area...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
// John Townsend                    LIS Legal Conversion Engineering
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// 8891 Gander Creek Dr.            ...!uunet!meaddata!johnt
// Miamisburg, OH  45342            (513) 865-7250 
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Newsgroups: rec.music.christian