HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Litani River
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 13:51:27 GMT

In article <1dd618INNf5r@manuel.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:

# The Litani River and/or its water was on Zionist "wish lists" many
# times this century.  However, I have never heard of real evidence
# that Israel is currently diverting water from it, or ever did so
# this decade.  I know that the UN investigated it but found nothing.
# If anyone knows of more than mere accusations, they ought to say so.

	I am not any kind of a water diversion expert.  However, I cannot
see how Israel could divert anything other than a very small amount of
water without the whole world knowing about it.  This may be due to my
ignorance, but the way I see it there would have to be too many trucks
delivering the water to go unoticed, or a major digging attempt that
could not be hidden.
--
"For all I care, you can send your money to the Hitler memorial fund, too, if
that pleases you."

From  arens@vaxa.isi.edu (Yigal Arens) in article <9323@venera.isi.edu>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Bulbul)
Subject: Re: King Hussein is saved again
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 05:17:08 GMT

naftaly@supergas.dazixco.ingr.com (Naftaly Stramer) writes:

>From Israeline 11/4:

>Syrian President Gave King Hussein Intelligence Information Which
>Helped to Reveal Coup Plot in Jordan
> 
>Today's YEDIOT AHRONOT reports that Syrian President Hafez Assad
>recently relayed intelligence information to King Hussein of Jordan
>which assisted in revealing a coup aimed at overthrowing the King.
>Assad even allowed a Syrian citizen at the beginning of this week
>to appear before a military court in Amman to testify on funds
>transferred from Iran to the Islamic underground in Jordan, for the
>purpose of assisting plans to overthrow King Hussein. Among those
>arrested in the plotted coup are two members of the Jordanian
[B>parliament who represent the Islamic front. According to the
>newspaper, investigations revealed that Iran, Libya, and Ahmed
>Jibril's Organization the Democratic Front for the Liberation of
>Palestine (DFLP) were all involved in the subversive scheme.

   I don't buy this news for $0.0000...0001. Assad himself can be
baught for $0.01, let alone one of his change. Also over a month
ago there was news about a member of MKO "drawing" Jordan's attention
to what is happening between some Jordanian Parlamentarian and Iran.
This is for outsiders' consumption (/export/null.) What is happening
in Jordan is only preparation for the elections year (next one)
to eliminate unwanted characters from the political scene. This
move is not new in the Backward World, it's even older than some
Arab rulers themselves. (It happened and is happening right now in
Morocco, Yemen (but by Saudi fingers,) Iraq, etc.

** wa lil.hoRiYati l.hamrA'i bAbon
                       bikoLi yadin mo.duRajatin yodaQo
                                                 Ahmad Shawqi
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: MEQ #17: Ben-Gurion on Israeli expansi
Date: 12 Nov 1992 04:02:32 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
Distribution: world
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.23.70

In article 90576@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au, zmood@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au () writes:
>In article <1dnnh0INNcie@manuel.anu.edu.au>, bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:

>>  ... Ben-Gurion is not the boss any more, nor is
>> Shamir (whose politics was closer to BG's than most people will admit;
>> this comment will get me flamed, ho ho :=).  One can speculate that 
>> permanent annexation of part of south Lebanon was one of the long-term 
>> aims of the 1982 war, but (a) there's no solid direct evidence of that, 
>> and (b) Israel now knows that nothing short of the most draconian measures 
>> could "pacify" the south to the extent where settlement was possible.
>> My bet is that annexation is not currently considered to be a realistic
>> option.  I just wish Israel would hurry up and realise that there is
>> only one option, and that is withdrawal from Lebanon.

>Let us assume that what Israelis call the " Security Zone " is just that. Then
>it would follow that withdrawal would only follow when security was ensured.
>Hence considering the present situation, the above does not seem imminent even
>with withdrawal the prefered option. The question then is, " Whether Israel 
>should withdraw regardless of the present situation.  Under article 51 of the
>U.N. charter....... Until Lebanon, can assure Israel that its citizens will not
>commit hostile acts against Israel, what option does Israel have ?

I don't have time to look up the UN charter, but I'd be amazed if there
is any principle that says country A can invade country B then remain in
country B on the grounds that the people of country B are resisting the
occupation.  If you don't think this is a summary of the situation, you
need to show that the Hezbollah attack Israel for other reasons.  How 
many rockets were fired into Israel BY LEBANESE before Israel invaded 
Lebanon?  

>Daniel Zmood

Brendan.
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Kahan Commission
Date: 13 Nov 1992 13:25:57 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


   Brendan McKay appears to have a keen interest in the massacres
that took place in the Sabra and Shattlia refugee camps.  Perhaps
I should more accurately note that he has a keen interest in what
disipline was handed out to Ariel Sharon.  There is another facet
of this disguisting tragedy that Mr. McKay has not addressed.  It
is that these murders were carried out by Christian soldiers.  It
is important to note who did the killings, because it looks as if
Mr. Sharon had no idea what was going to happen if the Christians
were allowed to enter the camps.  Furthermore, it was shown in an
American court that he not only did not have any knowledge at all
of the massacres until the Christian soldiers had already started
their blood bath, but that Time magazine KNEW that he didn't, but
chose to claim that he did.
   If this is as terrible a tragedy as Mr. McKay, and I, think it
is, and if Sharon did not have any knowledge of this event, until
well into the event, why has Mr. Mckay not addressed the issue of
who ordered and carried out these murders?  Is it due to the fact
that they were ordered and carried out by Christian soldiers?  It
would add considerably to Mr. Mckay's credibility if he made more
of an attempt to look at the whole picture, rather than trying to
shift all blame for every tragic event in the middle east to Jews
exclusively.  it is not that Mr. McKay is a liar.  He usually can
stick to fact.  But fact is not always the truth.  If facts which
are germane to understanding an issue are left outmaybe because
of some bias, then the facts presented paint a false picture.  It
is often the case with Mr. McKay.  It is the case in his postings
on this terrible tragedy.
   I am no fan of Mr. Sharon.  He is a dispicable person.  But it
does not do any good to embellish the negative image of Sharon if
it involves creating a false image of certain events as Mr. McKay
seems so eager to do.  If you want to criticize Ariel Sharon, try
doing it with truth, rather than lies by omission.  There is more
than enough ugly TRUTH about Sharon.  Why resort to flasehoods by
omission?
-- 
   "One can be a racist.  Or one can be a human being.  But one
may not be both."
                                 - Rabbi Abraham Joshua heschel
From: mepol29@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU (Adam Rosham)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: 1967 war again (was: Re: Rebel attack....)
Date: 12 Nov 1992 15:05:34 +1100
Organization: University of Melbourne
NNTP-Posting-Host: ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au

astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:

>bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:

>>I didn't flame Alan for claiming that the 1967 war was Egypt's fault;
>>I flamed him for thinking that quoting some unsourced shit out of
>>Myths and Facts was a way to prove it.

Is the question here, who started the 1967 war?

Adam

Adam Rosham-mepol29@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au="Oh Pointy Birds, Oh Pointy Pointy
Melbourne University, Melbourne Australia.  = Anoint My Head, Anointy Nointy."
ph: (03) 853-9720                           = Steve Martin (T.M.W.T.B's)
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:22051 soc.culture.arabic:4861 soc.culture.lebanon:4978 soc.culture.afghanistan:1212
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.lebanon,soc.culture.afghanistan
Subject: Sentencing in Jordan
Date: 12 Nov 92 03:57:15 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

From the Associated Press, November 11, 1992

	2 Sentenced in Jordan for Sedition Roles

AMMAN, Jordan -- A military court sentenced two Islamic lawmakers to
20 years at hard labor yesterday for belonging to an underground,
Iranian-backed group that allegedly seeks to overthrow King Hussein.

The conviction of Leith Shubeilat and Yaqoub Qarrash, who could have
received the death penalty, was seen by some political activists as
a setback for Hussein's efforts to introduce democratic reforms in
his predominantly secular kingdom.

However, others viewed the arrest of Shubeilat, a popular legislator
and outspoken critic of official corruption, as a warning to Jordan's
fundamentalists to steer clear of militancy or from trying to upset
the political stability of the kingdom.

Two shopkeepers also were convicted of belonging to Shabab Al-Nafeer
Al-Islami, or Muslim Youth for Mobilization.  Each received 10 years
at hard labor.

Al-Nafeer allegedly seeks to replace the monarchy with an Iranian-
styled Islamic republic and vehemently opposes the Arab-Israeli
peace talks in which Jordan is participating.

EOF

True democracy at its best - Middle East style:  convictions for
belonging to a movement which *allegedly* sought the overthrow
of a corrupt regime.  Typical measures by dictatorships to rid
their political opponents/critics through imprisonment without
formal charges. 

Those who ever fear Islamic uprisings can rest knowing how
well they are dealt with - just look at cycle:  Syria, Egypt,
Algeria, Tunis, and of late, Bosnia.

At least the peace talks will continue - despite how many
people are silenced, imprisoned, expelled, or murdered ...

Anisa
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: henry@bms.com (Henry Mednikoff)
Subject: Re: Another Missed Opportunity
Reply-To: henry@bms.com
Organization: Bristol-Myers Squibb PRI
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 20:55:04 GMT



In article 1662@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM, nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>>>The North African countries, Tunisia, Algeria, morocco. They were 
>>>incapable of launching attacks against Germany, but they resisted 
>>>their occupation. If you look at one of the chronicles of WWII, it 
>>>will show you the Moroccans cheering the Britts when they liberated
>>>their country from the Nazis. 
>>>
>>>Nabil
>>
>>
>>If You remember, Nabil,  Israeli troops were cheered  by the lebanees villagers (with rice) in 1982... (So were Syrian troops later.)
>>I think it is more an Arab tradition than a symbol of resistance to the former enemy or
>>a symbol of support for the winning power.
>>The only thing I know,that during WWII, the Jewish population of island Gerba (Jerba)
>>near Algeria was speared of german extermination due to help from their Arab neighbours
>>on that Island.
>>So it is arrogant to generalize an Arab response to the Nazis as cooperation.
>>It was different, depending on geografical location. 
>>
>>Henry.
>
>Yes I remember, they were cheered by mostly christians and shiite villagers
>and not because it is a tradition, but because they did not like the PLO.
>
>Your statement implies that Arabs are hypocrits and I think this is 
>an arrogant statement on your side. 
>
>Any way, during WWII, most of the Arab countries were occupied by foreign
>powers and they did not have any power to take a specific action against
>any of the waring countries.
>
>Nabil
>


It is useless  to bring my point of view to You because You have some difficulties
to face facts & to discuss them in good natured manners.
You try to find implications in my mail which do not exist.
I deal with facts, I gave You facts wether You like them or not.
I was born and lived most of my life among moslems, the principal of "medrese" was our
family friend, my father, being a doctor saved lifes of many bedouins, arabs,jews, turks,azeris,uzbeks. 
I dislike people who instigate ethnic hate, so Nabil...buzz off!


















Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (Manu)
Subject: Re: Rebel attack kills 5 Israeli soldiers, wounds 5 more
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 06:50:02 GMT

In article <Nov.10.21.37.51.1992.22601@caip.rutgers.edu> marwang@caip.rutgers.edu (Marwan Gharaybeh) writes:
>eyad@ecst.csuchico.edu (Eyad M. Alnuweiri) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Oct26.180255.28508@dazixco.ingr.com> naftaly writes:
>
>>When an Israeli soldier (or any occupation soldier) is in an occupied land
>>(West Bank, Gaza, South Lebanon), and he/she dies in any type of resistence
>>action, then he/she died in duty for the ideas of the state they represent.
>>They  are "soldiers" and this is their "paid job", so that is expected to
>>some extent from him/her, from the family, and from the Israeli government.
>
>The answer is simple and could be extracted from recent history ... In the
>late 1930's/early 1940's a country called germany was run by a group of
>NAZI's ... the Nazis used this very same procedure that you have just
>outlined namely; when a nazi soldier is killed in a country that they
>brutally occupied (France as an example) by the resistance hero's they
>used to get a group of the resisdents of the nearby village (women/children
>included) and execute them with there blood-thirsty/black-hatred rifles.
>
>Israel is using this same procedure again ... Now.

	I would like you to citye an example of when Israel rounded up
	the residents of a village and executed them.  Until then, your
	post is pure BS.


							Manu
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>                                                                             _
>Marwan Gharaybeh:                         ||                               _(_ 
>                                          ||               | |               |
>Better Known as ...                       ||    ()         | |               |
>                                          ||           _   | |      .-     | |
>Hadi el-gossah gossat hamdah ...          ||      \___/ \__/ |      (_|____/ |
>Hamdah, el-rimsh elly yitehaddah ...      ||       |  \_/    |        |      |
>galat mareedak ...                        ||  \___/      /   |   \___/    *  |
>mareedak, lo tethbahnee be`eedak mareedak.||            /
>===============================================================================


-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            

A .sig?  A .sig? We don't need no stinkin' .sigs!
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Subject: Re: MEQ #17: Ben-Gurion on Israeli expansi
Reply-To: a.Faris@trl.oz.au 
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne,Australia
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:03:54 GMT

In article <1dnnh0INNcie@manuel.anu.edu.au>, bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:
|> >|> In article 18155@trl.oz.au, faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris) writes:
|> >|> >In article <1dk9h2INNnqm@manuel.anu.edu.au>, bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:
|> 
|> >|> >|>       MEQ #17.  Teveth on Ben-Gurion's vision of the future of Israel, 1937.
|> >|> [...]
|> 
|> >|> >Did Ben-Gurion have an idea of where the Jewish state's borders should be?.
|> 
|> >Thus if the peace process comes to an end (which it will), Israel will annex
|> >south Lebanon. Then 2/3 of the Israeli expansion goal beyond the borders of 
|> >Palestine would have been realised. This leaves the east bank of the Jordan
|> >river for future conquest.
|> 
|> I don't think that follows.  Ben-Gurion is not the boss any more, nor is
|> Shamir (whose politics was closer to BG's than most people will admit;
|> this comment will get me flamed, ho ho :=).  One can speculate that 
|> permanent annexation of part of south Lebanon was one of the long-term 
|> aims of the 1982 war, but (a) there's no solid direct evidence of that, 
|> and (b) Israel now knows that nothing short of the most draconian measures 
|> could "pacify" the south to the extent where settlement was possible.
|> My bet is that annexation is not currently considered to be a realistic
|> option.  I just wish Israel would hurry up and realise that there is
|> only one option, and that is withdrawal from Lebanon.
|> 
|> >A.Faris
|> 
|> Brendan.
|> 

I think it is far more difficult for Israel to annex south Lebanon due to
western awareness that was initiated by the peace process. I personally feel
that the Israelis' have made the biggest mistakes in the early 80s for not
annexing south Lebanon under the Reagan administration who supported them
when they annexed the Golan from Syria. However, with time every thing is
possible.

It is clear that the Israel strategy to make sure no war is fought on the
original Palestinian land and secure the water resources from South Syria
and Lebanon.

A.Faris
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Ohm Salam)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Ohm Salam!
Date: 6 Nov 92 04:17:44 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <71@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP> ohayon@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP (Tsiel Ohayon) writes:
>
>Ohm is also an electrical unit, used for resistors. The "resistance" of a 
>resistor is measured in Ohms. Are you also in the resistance Anisa?
>Are you resisting Salam :-) Or in the terms of Saddam "the magnificent"
>are you the mother of resistors!

Yes, I am familiar with the other terminology of Ohm.  :-)

Which resistance?  (Shhh ...) 

Ask my parents just how defiant and *resistant* I was as a child ... then
you know the real me.  :^)

Anisa

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: gadi@envius.cs.uiuc.edu (Gadi Friedman)
Subject: Re: ACTION ALERT!! An Arab village is to be wiped out
Reply-To: gadi@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:56:29 GMT

After all this arguing, we still haven't heard an Israeli view
of what, if anything, is going on in Ramya.  Can someone in
Israel post more info???

Gadi

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hm@cs.brown.edu (Harry Mamaysky)
Subject: Re: That Wacky Israel line (Re: Those Wacky Iranians)
Organization: Somewhere East or Somewhere West
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:35:15 GMT

In article <BxKGqr.7Hs@newsflash.concordia.ca>, ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira) writes:
|> Now it turned out that that key witness (who is a german citizen
|> with an iraqi origin) was lying.. He admitted that as soon as he
|> left Jordan claiming that he was forced to do that..
|> The Jordanian persecution (right spelling here) charged him
|> with obstruction of justice.. This of course after the Jordanian
|> members of Parlement who were being tried got 20 years
|> Jail sentences with hard labor (not subject to appeals).. 
|> I wonder why the Israel line did not inform you about this!

Where is it that you have heard of this? Can you give us a source?

Harry.
From: flax@frej.teknikum.uu.se (Jonas Flygare)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Rebel attack kills 5 Israeli soldiers, wounds 5 more
Date: 5 Nov 92 20:44:29 GMT
	<1992Nov2.211917.1@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu>
	<1d9sckINN90o@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu>
Organization: Dept. Of Control, Teknikum, Uppsala
NNTP-Posting-Host: frej.teknikum.uu.se
In-reply-to: eyad@ecst.csuchico.edu's message of 5 Nov 92 01:11:48 GMT

In article <1d9sckINN90o@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> eyad@ecst.csuchico.edu (Eyad M. Alnuweiri) writes:

   >> Mr. Stein, Israel is an occupation force, regardless of how much you or
   >> others try to defend it, I think you can save yourself much of trouble if you
   >> admit this fact (even secretly) and try to deal with from that point of view.
   >> Defend it as the British used to defend their occupation of the world.


   >	Ok, I admit we've occupied the world. Now, I forget, what was 
   >	the British defence? 


   No, not really, the Zionists are occupying Palestine, South Lebanon, and  
   Golan heights, ONLY.

Just to keep my curiosity at bay; When you say Zionists, do you mean Israelis, and
also, which area do you define Palestine as? If not, Which areas do the Israelis occupy,
and what area do you define Israel as?

--

--------------------------------------------------------
Jonas Flygare, 		+ Wherever you go, there you are
V{ktargatan 32 F:621	+
754 22 Uppsala, Sweden	+
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: mike@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Michael Gschwind)
Subject: Re: MEQ #15: Rabin on expulsion of Arabs, 1948.
Organization: Vienna University of Technology
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 01:48:42 GMT


From the memoirs of Y. Rabin:
      "Great suffering was inflicted upon the men taking part in the
      eviction action.  Soldiers of the Yiftach brigade included youth-movement
      graduates, who had been inculcated with values such as international
      brotherhood and humaneness.  The eviction action went beyond the concepts
      they were used to.  Poor Israeli Soldiers! Great suffering was
inflicted upon THEM! And who inflicted the suffering upon them? Of
course, the evil Palestinians who did not leave their homes, THEIR
land voluntarily! Gimme a break, or I'll throw up!

Michael




--

Michael Gschwind, Dept. of VLSI-Design, Vienna University of Technology
mike@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at	1-2-3-4 kick the lawsuits out the door 
(currently somewhere in         5-6-7-8 innovate don't litigate         
the Bay Area, back sometime     9-A-B-C interfaces should be free
at the end of this year)	D-E-F-O look and feel has got to go!
     
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Normand Arthur Beeline)
Subject: Re: Sentencing in Jordan
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 06:50:27 GMT

aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:

>From the Associated Press, November 11, 1992

>	2 Sentenced in Jordan for Sedition Roles

>True democracy at its best - Middle East style:  convictions for
>belonging to a movement which *allegedly* sought the overthrow
>of a corrupt regime.  Typical measures by dictatorships to rid
>their political opponents/critics through imprisonment without
>formal charges. 

>Anisa

As if you are poking fun at the government of my country. It's all a
misunderstanding on the part of people, especially Islamists. Countries
in the Backword World (otherwise known as the Arab World) are based
upon the government not the people. Therefore, when we say we have
democracy, it must be understood right: democracy of the government,
i.e. the government does whatever it wishes, unlike when there is a
law or constitution.

   People like Laith made a fatal mistake by thinking that it was
democracy in the Western sense. This is double entendre, the word
has many meanings and must be interpreted according to the dialect
of the specific government.

   The other fatal mistake that Laith made was thinking that a bunch
of worthless people deserved a nanosecond in his mind. He tried to
change what God (Glory to His Name) created. God created some people
to be mounted, let'em have fun, why the hell get your nose there?

I think it is time for the eternal poem:

*norm* sha^bon i_tha .doriba l.hi_thA'o biwajhihI
           .sara.ka l.hi_thA'o: bi'aYi _thanbin o.drabO? *norm*

[I did not make this poem, bur this is the way I sign off.]