HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alanmoore@yang.earlham.edu
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: EMT certified bystander
Date: 28 Sep 92 13:03:20 GMT
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana

In article <01GPA3SHC6Z6984UFW@gallua.bitnet>, 11AHILL@GALLUA.GALLAUDET.EDU (Audrey S. Hill, DC/NR/EMT-A) writes:
>>So suppose you go on a call and an off-duty EMT is there to assist, what
>>would you do?  Would you allow him/her to assist you on the field or
>>what??

What bothers me the most about this is the fact that you had special skills
that the medics responding might not have had and might not have been
available.

We discussed this in regard to responding to fires; say you are next to a scene
(or pass one), you have your gear, so you jump out and ask the chief if you can
help.  I see nothing wrong with asking, but I don't see anything wrong with
refusing help, either.  A lot of times you need more space, not more people.

>>in any medical emergencies on campus during the night.  I was told that since
>>I am not part of the university student life staff so therefore they cannot

You can't join this staff (I don't know what it is, or what it involves, that's
why I'm asking)?

Alan Moore                         alanmoore@yang.earlham.edu
Treasurer/Training/Safety Officer  (317)983-1437
Boston Community Fire Department   (317)935-2449
Boston, IN
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: emerg-l@marist.bitnet
X-VMS-To: IN%"emerg-l@marist.bitnet"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 20:38:13 -0400
From:         KEN <KAK6279@RITVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Responisbility to provide care...

        Ok, guys.  From what I learned this summer...
My ambulance corps is currently being sued to the tune of $270million
(That's right, $270 mil.) by a fire department whom we currently respond
on EMS with.  What we discovered, was that, since we didn't have a written
agreement with the village, we have the ability to refuse a call if we
so chose.  Of course, this could easily be attributed to some form of
discrimination, but I believe that we may bluff the town by threatening
to stop ambulance service, thereby nescessitating a paid ambulance for
a very high cost!!!.  Now, mind you, we still are professionals, and we
ride for the sole purpose of saving lives, so we vowed that we would NEVER
refuse a call to the village unless we were forced to stop service alltogether
and with advance warning, but that is unlikely.  Also, we were informed that
if we didn't feel comfortable responding to the village (we also serve, a
town with a much larger radius...) we wouldn't be forced even if it resulted
in mutual aid responses.  Granted this is extreme, but then again, some
people may find it hard trusting the care of a first responder who is not
only suing you for $270 mil., but may give you bad info to discredit the
corps. further.  (Highly unlikely.)

So apparently, in New York,  even when you are on duty, you still may not
be subject to respond if you have a REALLY GOOD reason to not go, and a
GOOD lawyer.
(And if we're wrong, someone will tell us anyway, won't you???

                                                FireMAN

BTW - In this case, wouldn't that conflict with the law that says that any
ambulance who comes across a car accident MUST stop to check for and treat
injured passenger???
Food for flame.

        Just my $.002 worth!              "KAAAYYYY!"  (LS)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Kenneth A. Kirchoff       --     Henrietta Fire District
     CPU 1293                          Larchmont Mamaroneck Volunteer Amb.
     25 Andrews Memorial Drive          Town of Mamaroneck Vol. Fire Dept.
     KAK6279@ISC.RIT.EDU                 Certified Lifeguard

        "Time is an invaluable commodity, which I am unwilling to waste,
          but I sell it to RIT for $4.51 an hour!" (Damn college jobs!)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Pro-Berks Inc.-Reading,Pa..The EMS Specialists..BBS..(215)929-4315
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:23:08 EST
Comments:     <Parser> W: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurence was
              retained.
From:         "(Diana DeNearing)" <diana@PRO-BERKS.CTS.COM>
Subject:      Re: EMT certified bystander

That sounds kinda like the situation up here at Kutztown University... Dumb
rules, although they may make sense in some abstract way, can cause more
damage than good. IE) I work for the Health Center as a driver. One of the
rules I detest is the one stating that we are not allowed to transport
women who are pregnant or in labor, no matter what. The person in labor is
forced to wait for an ambulance, often a wait of 1-1,5 hours, as the
nearest city is 30 minutes away on a good day. I can understand half their
reasoning.. what if something happens on the way to the hospital? Yeah..
but that's what police escorts are for. the other half is beyond me. Even
if it's just a sprained toe or something, we can't touch em.

My advice to you : Keep on showing up and bothering em till they shoot you
or give in just to keep you outta the way. :)

Diana
/s
From: kra@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Kenneth R Aron)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: Liability
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:49:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Sep30.164954.8484
Reply-To: kra@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Kenneth R Aron)
Organization: Columbia University


	As I recall, in NYS, you are required to stop if you are
<<identified>> as an EMS provider.  That, as I recall it, means
if a trooper, or someone, sees something that identifies you and
flags you down, then you are required to stop.

Ken

Kenneth R. Aron                 NYS EMT-Defibrillation            | |  / /
kra@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu      Columbia Area Volunteer Ambulance | |/ / 
                                Columbia University, NYC          | |\ \
"EMTs do it with patience"                                        | |  \ \
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
From: scoggin@opus.ee.udel.edu (John K Scoggin)
Subject: Re: off duty response
Organization: Delmarva Power & Light Company, Newark DE
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:39:49 GMT

In article <EMERG-L%92092809325406@VM.MARIST.EDU> MEG04@ALBNYDH2.BITNET writes:
>In a previous article, Audrey Hill asks about responding while off duty.
>She was pretty much directed not to respond.  She is a student at a
>university with mostly deaf students.
>
>There are two issues here:
>... DC FD probably does not have many people who can sign, and she would
>2.  The second issue is additional responders at the scene.  As a resident
>of a community served by volunteers, and a member of a mixed vol/paid
>service, I know that too many people on the scene is at least as bad as
>too few.  Chaos soon results, and important things get overlooked.  It is
>important to let the folks who have a duty to respond do their thing, while
>letting them know that more help is around if needed.  Often staying out of
>the way is a major service.  (I used to stop at every crash I saw.  Now,
>I only stop if EMS isn't there, my scanner says they are calling for more
>help, or something real unusual is going on.  Otherwise, I just stay out
>of the way.)
>
>                           Mike Gilbertson
>                           (meg04@albnydh2.bitnet)

Amen to that!  There are only 2 things that are WORSE than too many EMT's
	* More than one fire chief
	* A well-intentioned MD who is NOT an ER physician

There isn't much you can do about the fire officers, but we have had a few
problems with MDs stopping at scenes and interfering.  I have escorted a few
from the scene (and arrested one particularly obnoxious Intern :-))...

We have a pretty good protocol for dealing with MDs at the scene - if they want
to play, THEY are responsible for the patient.  That's usually enough to
discourage them.

	- John

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
John K. Scoggin, Jr.			Email:   scoggin@udel.edu
Supervisor, Network Operations			 scoggin@delmarva.com
Delmarva Power & Light Co.		Voice:	 302-451-5200
P.O. Box 6066				Fax:	 302-451-5321
Newark, DE 19714-6066
Officer, Delaware State Fire Police
Deputy Operations Officer, Div. of Emergency Planning & Operations
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your milage may vary.  Void where prohibited by law (or common sense).
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
From: amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves)
Subject: Re: Liability
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 21:08:51 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.122455.4327@pro-berks.cts.com> "(Diana DeNearing)" <diana@PRO-BERKS.CTS.COM> writes:

>however, is in the same class, but is a volunteer fireman, staff of the
>National cave rescue team, and a few other things. He is responsible for a

Just one nit here.  There is no "national cave rescue team".  There is
the NCRC which is the National Cave Recue Commission.  This is a
training organization only, under the NSS.  Some localities have
organized teams, but there is no such on a national level.

-- 
Anmar Mirza   # Mayor of Dogspit, IN  #My Opinions! NotIU's! #Purveyor of
EMT-D         # Located somewhere in  # Legalize Explosives! #nontraditional
N9ISY (tech)  # the Outback of the    #I've got my own fusion#family values
Networks Tech.# Mirza Ranch.C'mon over#plant. Just ask me.   #Space For Rent
From: saltzman@ISOVAX (Bob Saltzman)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: Origin of the term 'quint'
Date: 5 Oct 92 13:08:06 GMT
Reply-To: saltzman@ISOVAX
Organization: GE Corporate Research & Development, Schenectady, NY

In article <28095@nntp_server.ems.cdc.com>, bguest@ateam.ems.cdc.com (Brandon Guest) writes:
>I have been in the fire service now for about 17 years with a 30 person
>volunteer department.  For many years now I have always assumed the
>term 'quint' referred to a specific BRAND of aerial apparatus.  Not
>having a building over two stories in our area we don't have a lot of
>experience with ladders or their associated terminology.
>
>Last night I was reading an article in Fire Chief talking about the
>pros and cons of 'quints'.  It suddenly dawned on me that they were not
>talking about a specific brand of apparatus but, instead, a type.  I
>guess my question boils down to:
>
>What does the term 'quint' mean?  Where did it originate? and how do
>'quints' differ from other types of aerial apparatus such as tiller
>trucks, ladder towers or pipes, etc.?  Is one of the principle
>characteristics the inclusion of a pump and on-board water supply in
>addition to the ladder?
>
>This question is so basic, I am almost embarrased to ask.
>
>Thanks in Advance!
>
>Brandon
>-- 
>H. Brandon Guest                | bguest@ems.cdc.com
>Empros Systems International    | (A division of Something)
>2300 Berkshire Lane North       | Voice (612) 553-4529
>Plymouth, MN 55441-3694         | Fax   (612) 553-4018

A quint configuration for a ladder truck indeed refers to its
functionality.  In general the quint has 5 main capabilities
(seems logical!).  They are aerial ladder, fixed ladder carrier,
hose carrier, pump, and water supply.  Some quints may have
other combinations but that't the way our Pierce-upgraded
American LaFrance is configured.
==============================================================================
Robert B. Saltzman (Bob)            Internet: saltzman@crd.ge.com
Information System Operation        Snailnet: Bldg KW, Room C120, PO Box 8
General Electric Company            AT&Tnet:  518-387-5828(B), 387-6560(FAX),
Corporate Research and Development            370-2222(H)
Schenectady, New York 12301 USA     ICBMnet:  42 50 04 N, 73 54 14 W, Alt 246
AEMT-4 Paramedic/Firefighter        HAMnet:   WB2ARK
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: Pulse Oximeters
From: macridis_g@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Gerry Macridis)
Date: 7 Oct 92 02:01:35 NZST
Organization: Welligton City Council, Public Access.
Keywords: peripheral shutdown, fingers, toes, ear lobes
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

In article <9210051011.aa28786@AMSAA-CLEO.BRL.MIL>,
"Robert G. Kreisel (GWD)" <kreisel@BRL.MIL> writes:

> The probe is usually placed on the index finger of the pt. (toes for infants)
> and it measures both SaO2 (Saturated Oxygen level in blood) and pulse.

Would the usefulness of the oximeter attached to a finger or toe decline
in cases where there is marked peripheral shutdown (e.g., in severely
hypovolaemic patients)?  How does the ear lobe compare as an alternative
site for oximeter probe attachment?

-- 
Gerry Macridis,      /\/\     .... Email: macridis_g@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Private Box 3929,   ( oo )    :... Voice: +64 4 3899444
Wellington,           \/......:
New Zealand.                       Learn first aid; it saves lives.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:41:10 -0400
From:         "(Scott Berringer)" <aa617@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Fire Department Graphics

>
>Does anyone know if there is a ftp site where I can get fire department
>related graphics for Word Perfect?
>
>Eddie Armstrong (aisarmstrong%ist%vmi@ist.vmi.edu)
>member of Rockbridge Baths Volunteer Fire Department
>Rockbridge Baths, Virginia
>
What about Print Shop graphics?? I'm looking for some...



--
Scott Berringer                                  _**_
SigOp: Radio Scanner SIG                        /____:-IIIIIIIIIIII
aa617@cleveland.Freenet.Edu                   >: 911 :-------------\
Scanner enthusiasts do it with frequency..     +-(O)----------(O)--+
From: gubernar@andromeda.rutgers.edu (E-mail from Ren Hoek!!)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: WANTED: EMT/FD patches from Northern NJ/Southern NY
Summary: Looking for EMT/FD patches from NJ/NY area...
Keywords: EMT, FD, patches
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:52:14 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Rutgers University - Newark, NJ

I am currently trying to build up my collection of patches from EMS and Fire
Departments from the Metro NY/NJ area.  If you have any extra or unwanted
patches (in any condition!), please contact me either by posting a reply or
via e-mail to gubernar@andromeda.rutgers.edu.  I would also be interested in
any other areas of the country, if available.


John D. Gubernard
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: EMERG-L@MARIST.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"EMERG-L@MARIST.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 12:53:50 -0400
From:         KEN <KAK6279@RITVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Pulse Oximeters

        One story I heard about those auto BP cuffs... This story is second
hand, so I can't confirm it, but it IS food for thought.
Up here in Rochester, some of the hospitals get a BP on incoming patients
during thier wait in triage woth an auto BP cuff.  In one instance, I was
told that they put it on a pt. who had recently arrived from a motorcycle
accident and was in MAST.  Anyway, apparently, when the cuff took the BP,
it came up with something like 126/96.  So the staff, after an additional
reading began to deflate the MAST.  Well, all thorought the procedure, and
even after the MAST were removed, the BP showed 126/96.  Unfortunately,
the patient suddenly died, probably due to hypvolemic shock.  The staff
then tested the cuff on a few empoloyees and they all got the same reading!
I hear that a lawsuit was taken up against the hospital, but isn't it always
a good idea that when it's your butt on the line, and you don't like a
reading, you should take it YOURSELF?  Anyway, I don't know how true
this story is, but it certainly is food for thought.  Remeber, saometimes
theonly thing you can rely on is yourself and what you detect.  And even that
may be tough to believe!

                                                        FireMAN
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 13:10:00 CDT
From:         "Wm. Bryant Faust, IV" <WFAUST@NNOMED.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Earphones

> Does anyone know where earphone similar to those of the Secret Service can be
> obtained?  I am in need of a very low profile earphone and I know the Secret
> Service earphones are of high quality and work well.  Thanks for the
> assistance.
>
> ----Reid Swanson               E-mail:  RSwanso@American.edu

Are you looking for just an earphone or and earphone/microphone
combination?  Also what kind of radio does it need to connect to?
I know Motorola makes one for their radios, but it isn't cheap.

Bryant
wfaust@nomvs.lsumc.edu
From: jrd5@po.CWRU.Edu (Jacob DeGlopper)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: first-aid and liability
Date: 27 Sep 1992 02:26:36 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: jrd5@po.CWRU.Edu (Jacob DeGlopper)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, cbirn@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (***Romulus***) says:

>I have a question regarding the liability of a first-responder.
>I am a lifeguard at a pool at home and at a recent guard meeting
>we, the lifeguards, were told that we could no longer do any first-
>aid due to liability reasons.  We could not clean wounds with 
>hydrogen peroxide, we could not splint fractures, in fact they told
>us that we could not even apply a band-aid, because we might get

>So my question is:  is there really that much of a danger of getting
>sued?  Isn't there also a danger of getting sued for abandonment or
>negligence if we, the lifeguards, do not do first-aid?  How safe are
>we from possible lawsuits?  

Look into your state's Good Samaritan law.  It varies from state to state;
often you won't be covered if you're being paid for what you're doing.
In other states -- Maryland, for example -- I'm covered pretty much no 
matter what, as long as I stay within my certification and am not
grossly negligant. 

I'm not a lawyer, but there would appear to be a greater liability 
profile in not providing needed treatment than in providing needed
treatment that you are certified to provide.  You can't abandon a
patient you never begin care on, but you certainly might be negligant
for not treating someone.  Take this to extremes -- you're not supposed
to pull someone out of the pool because they're in trouble; after all,
they might sue, and fire/rescue will be along to do the same thing.
What does this leave a lifeguard doing?
-- 
        Jacob DeGlopper, EMT-A, Wheaton (MD) Volunteer Rescue Squad
           -- CWRU Biomedical Engineering - jrd5@po.cwru.edu --
              jue@epaibm.rtpnc.epa.gov / JUE@NCCIBM1.BITNET
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
From: zrepachol@cc.curtin.edu.au (Paul Repacholi)
Subject: Re:      Re: CISD?
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 17:59:08 GMT

In article <24SEP92.13456532.0028.MUSIC@MARISTB>,         "Taylor, Helena C." <KKVW@MARISTB.BITNET> writes:
> I have been debriefed by CISD,  It is a very worth while thing.
> 
Second that. Jan last year I turned out to a property fire. It turned out to be
my house. :-( The next day I was sent to the brigade Clinical Psych. If it
wasn't for her help, I neer would hae made it through the next few days. The
imediate post fire de-brief also helped.
Feb this year, we had a rescue call, three down a well, 2 DOA, 3rd nearly so.
There were ~20 teenagers in the house, including my step-daughter, and the
nephew of one of the DOAs. Peer support and brigade chaplan were called in,
and counceling were notified first thing next day. Knowing that they were there
was a *BIG* help.

David Anderson and Mario Fazio, The 2 SCBA operators who pulled the 3rd guy out
tonight were each were awarded the Royal Life Saving 'Award for Bravery', and
the 'Meritorious Servise Award'

~Paul
From: af905@yfn.ysu.edu (Ed Shanks)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: Origin of the term 'quint'
Date: 1 Oct 92 00:59:22 GMT
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net


Brandon:
First, don't be embarassed that you don't know something as 
obscure as the term `quint' (or `quad,'for that matter). I'm
about 95% sure it refers to the number of functions the truck
is able to carry out. That is, it will 1, be an aerial device,
2, be a pumper, 3, be a source of light (via on-board generator
and lights, 4, be a rescue truck (not only carrying a stokes, but
first aid stuff, backboards, O2, etc.),let's see, that's a quad,
what else? On board cascade system? Would smoke ejectors make it
a quint? How about a little help out there :-)  ?

Ours is a 90 foot elevating platform with a 1500 gpm pump and a
5000 kw generator, but all we ever call it is Tower-1 ! ;-)

-- 
        Ed Shanks   af905@yfn.ysu.edu
        Sr. Firefighter (and lots of other titles as well!)
        Boardman Fire Dept.   Boardman, Ohio
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Pro-Berks Inc.-Reading,Pa..The EMS Specialists..BBS..(215)929-4315
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 12:24:55 EST
Comments:     <Parser> W: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurence was
              retained.
From:         "(Diana DeNearing)" <diana@PRO-BERKS.CTS.COM>
Subject:      Liability

it really depends on the state.. ie> I'm in the midst of getting my
standard adult first aid training. If I recall correctly, we were told that
if we are walking along the street and someone collapses, we have 2
choices. 1> keep going and feel guilty, or 2> start first aid. If we start,
we are obligated to continue until more help arrives, even if the person is
dead. We cannot pronounce anyone dead-only a doctor or coroner. If we stop,
and a person dies, then we can be held responsible. A friend of mine,
however, is in the same class, but is a volunteer fireman, staff of the
National cave rescue team, and a few other things. He is responsible for a
peson if they go down, whether he is trained or not. <Please correct me on
this if I'm wrong, Ken..> he's considered a volunteer professional, while
i'm only an amateur.. or some such business...

Now I've probably sonfused you more than ever...

As for the lifeguarding, here at Wildwater and Dorney park, the lifeguards
are tested all summer to make sure they know what they're doing, and are
capable of doing it. If they miss once, they can be fired..

DDiana
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Pro-Berks Inc.-Reading,Pa..The EMS Specialists..BBS..(215)929-4315
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 14:30:26 EST
Comments:     <Parser> W: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurence was
              retained.
From:         "(Kenneth P. Lager Jr.)" <kenlager@PRO-BERKS.CTS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Scanners Also

Now I am getting conflicting information:

1) All information is consistant to the fact that is EXTREMELY illegal to
        listen to cellular phones.  NO EXCEPTIONS!

2) The information concerning cordless phones is vague.  Some ??'s are:
        A)Is cordless phone listening legal
        B)Would that then make walkie-talkie listening also illegal.
        C)What about a landwire phone comm. cable that bled either onto my
scanner or even my FM radio?


If anyone has any DEFINATIVE answers, reply.  The differences may just be
a difference in what state you are in (PA, DC, NY, CONFUSION)


Awaiting Replys,
Ken Lager
Fire/Rescue, National Cave Rescue
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Pro-Berks Inc.-Reading,Pa..The EMS Specialists..BBS..(215)929-4315
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:24:34 EST
Comments:     <Parser> W: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurence was
              retained.
From:         "(Diana DeNearing)" <diana@PRO-BERKS.CTS.COM>
Subject:      milkcrates

That's a rather ridiculous rule. Last year all of my furniture was plastic
milkcrates, as was most of the furniture on campus. Are you guys allowed to
have lofts? My loft weighs appx. 230 lbs and is solid wood. One would think
that it was more of a hazard than milkcrates.. But who knows?

Diana
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU