HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: The meaning of "pagan"
Date: Sun,  3 Jan 1993 21:12:25 -0500
Organization: InterCon Systems Corporation
Distribution: world
Reply-To: amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker)
NNTP-Posting-Host: chaos.intercon.com
X-Newsreader: InterCon TCP/Connect II 1.1b31

In article <C09r8y.IG5.1@cs.cmu.edu>, drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake) writes:
> I am the way.  Not "I am a way."  I am THE way.  Moreso, "I am the way, 
> the truth and the life.  No man cometh to the Father but by me."  They 
> did NOT write: "I am a way, one of many truths and a type of life.  
> Some men come to the Father by me, but not all." 

But not even traditional, orthodox Christianity interprets this in a narrow, 
literalistic way, despite the intolerant propaganda of some modern Protestant 
splinter groups.  Take even Roman Catholicism, arguably the most exclusionary 
of Christian sects.  The crowning pillar of Roman Catholic theology, Saint 
Augustine, wrote:

"That which is called the Christian religion existed among the ancients and 
never did not exist, from the beginnings of the human race, until Christ came 
into the flesh at which time the true religion, which already existed, began 
to be called Christianity."

You can find similar writings from the second century to the twentieth.  They 
all point to a symbolic meaning not bound by particular names or structures.  
Some Christian writers go so far as to say that Christianity is not actually 
a particular religion at all, but a pattern of love, forgiveness, and 
perfection of ourselves, each other, and the world around us.

Gosh, sounds like something to avoid to me...


Grumble.


Amanda Walker
InterCon Systems Corporation
From: joann@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Jo Ann Malina)
Subject: Re: Tree Prayin' Fey Talkin' Foo'
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 03:24:42 GMT

In article <483700071@peg.pegasus.oz.au> gaiaf@peg.pegasus.oz.au writes:
>
>For other interesting approaches try contacting people who run
>the Council of All Beings and other deep ecology, earth-centred
>spirituality methods on cab.network
>

How do we link into cab.network from the internet?  Who and where
are the Council of All Beings?


*) *) *) *) *) *) *) *) *) *) *)!(* (* (* (* (* (* (* (* (* (* (* (* (*
Jo Ann Malina, Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Neither Stanford nor the DOE would be caught dead with these opinions.
Nor do they consult me when formulating theirs.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"When [the Druids] had found [mistletoe] they danced round the oak to
the tune of 'Hey derry down, down, down derry!' which literally signi-
fied 'In a circle move we round the oak.'"
                 Mrs. M. Grieve, "A Modern Herbal," Dover, 1931, 1971.
From: jjd1@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (james.j.dutton)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Subject: To My Sister
Date: 29 Dec 92 19:30:42 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1gpljaINN339@unidui.uni-duisburg.de> hz225wu@unidui.UUCP (Micaela "Stayka" Pantke) writes:
>Hi there - Stayka is here!
>
>As the time of solstice nears, I'm feeling even more sensitive 
>than on other times of the year - maybe it's because I was born 
>in just that night...
>
>I'd like you to share something very special to me - a song for 
>my sworn sister-in-mind who lives in Munich, rather far away from
>the place I'm living in. 
>
 
Snazzy subject and title.
 
>
>TO MY SISTER
>(this poem is dedicated to my breda Kira Morgana)
>-------------------------------------------------
>by Stayka deyAvemta
>(c) 1992/03/01
>
>Sister through all eternity
>Beloved sister, I'm so glad you ARE
>
>Sister in every time and space 
>Parted in body, our souls are combined
>Sister even in dream time's realm
>You are priceless to me and dear 
>Without you, I know, I'd be incomplete
>Although you're far away, your mind is here
>
 
I'd like to meet your sister some day.
 
================================================================================
 Sesquipedalian's 'R' Us. ZX-10. DoD#564. There ain't no more.
                                 doh#0000000005
================================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Nomenclature./Men are Not witches!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:17:32 GMT

sirbyte@brewich.hou.tx.us (William hancock) writes:
: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
: > : The correct terminology for a man who endeavors to engage in magical
: > : practices is "Warlock".  The more gender nuetral term would be
: > : "Necromancer".  If I practiced magic, I surely wouldn't want to be called a
: > :witch
: A quick note a Necromancer invokes or Evokes 'infernal spirits' so i 
: doubt that it could be used as a genderless term for witch.

Note that I did not write any of the above - it is the part I was rebutting.

Bill
From: lib1p@elroy.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Hiya Janis!
Date: 30 Dec 1992 03:18 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: elroy.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <2B411C91.13071@news.service.uci.edu>, cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes...

..post deleted....

>Blessings,
>Janis
> 
>P.S.: Yep -- I'm back!  I'll have to post and tell you about meeting
>Corun later -- what a sweetie!
> 
> 

Merry Meet and Hardy Welcome!

It's great to have you back!

*hugz*

BB,
Tammy


Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake)
Subject: Re: Power-over/Power-from-within
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 08:54:50 GMT

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

>Get off the bipoar bandwagon, people.  Even I -- the one who hates
>bipolar thinking so much -- neglected to realize what was going on.

You're right, of course.  Bipolar thinking is bad; multifaceted thinking
is the way to go.

;-)




-- 
Love and Laughter,             | NOTE: Private mail must go explicitly
Xeper and Remanifest,          | to drake@seismo.soar.cs.cmu.edu
                       DRAKE   | or it'll bounce back to you...
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Faggots and witches (again)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 21:32:30 GMT

donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal) writes:

>barry@netcom.com (Kenn Barry) writes:

>> In article <1992Dec22.175528.3934@news.acns.nwu.edu> Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Al
>> >This is in a footnote from Robin Morgan "Going Too Far", in chapter
>> >"Politics of Sado-Masochistic Fantasies". (P235 paperback ed.):
>> >
>> >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> >... By calling _themselves_ "faggots," they affirm those homosexual
>> >males persecuted in the Middle Ages: "When a woman was to be burned
>> >as a witch, men accused of homosexuality were bound and mixed
>> >with the bundles of kindling (faggots) at the feet of the witch,
>> >and set of fire 'to kindle a flame foul enough for a witch to burn
>> >in.' So the enemy has always seen that strong women and gentle men
>> >are a real threat to masculine domination." This quote is from
>> >Double-F, A Magazine of Effeminism...
>> >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> >
>> >Can any of you confirm or deny this further?
>> 
>> 	Sure. It's complete and unadulterated bullshit. No surprise,
>> coming from Morgan.
>> 
>> 						Kayembee

>  Oh really? That is interesting, as I have heard this quote before. It
>was attributed to a Bishop or Cardinal, and he was writing advice on how
>to burn witches. He wrote that homosexuals should be used in the
>building of the pyre, for only such men could "kindle a flame foul
>enough for a witch to burn in". As to Morgan's conclusion that the
>Church viewed Witches and Homosexuals with such hate because they feared
>strong women and gentle men is just about dead on.
>  With so much flaming going on in this newsgroup, we hardly need the
>kind of flip homophobic ember you tossed in above.

Um, Donal, what is homophobic about Kayembee's statement?  I'm decidedly
Queer, and I tend to suspect that the line from Morgan is bullshit.  I've seen
it before, and I've yet to see any reasonable source for it.  Please find the
name of the bishop/cardinal, and the document in which this appeared.  Please
cite it, with the author's name, the title of the docuemnt, the date of writing,
etc. for the newsgroup.  Then, I will consider that it might not be bullshit.

Enjoy the journey!
                      --Br'anArthur
                                      Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
"We are secretly replacing the fine quartz crystals this medicine pouch maker
usually uses with Folgers crystals.  Let's see what happens...."
                                      --DACCrowell
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: loca@netcom.com (John Hoag)
Subject: Re: The meaning of Pagan
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 07:49:12 GMT

>In article <1992Dec28.235958.3326@news.ysu.edu>, ag055@yfn.ysu.edu (Ward Chanley) writes...

>This is, in my mind, a convienient 
>compromise; otherwise, we'd have to 
>call this 
>
>alt.wicca.druids.asatru.women's-spirituality.Gaia-Theorists.Faerie-
>Spirituality.Taoism.Hinduism.Lamaism.Shinto.Shamanism.Native- 
>Spirituality.New-Age.magic.magick.magik.ritual-magic.natural-magic.
>Ceremonial-magic.etc-etc-etc

<applause!>

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: alizard@pil
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: PAGAN, was You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 02:36:23 PST

Re: Re: PAGAN, was You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
 
> From: ivaliote@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Lotus )
> Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.pagan
> Subject: Re: PAGAN, was You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
> Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 20:41:16 GMT
> I am neither a follower of Judaism nor one of Christianity.  I have my own 
> definitions of things, and subscribe to no existing religion.  I also don't g
> myself a name in the hopes of justifying myself, while in effect inviting 
> ridicule.
> Matt I.

No, you seem to be attracting ridicule quite nicely all by yourself without
a group name. 
                                                 A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== sum saurus, sum saurus, sum maximus saurus! ====== 93 ======
 (slogan contributed by Jessica Mc Geary)  (translated by Murray Altheim)
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     ^^^ preferred site ^^^         |  from only if you want to wait a
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alizard@seer.mystic.com             |              Kallisti!
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From: casspa@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Paul Cass)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Nomenclature./Men are Not witches!
Date: 23 Dec 92 21:27:22 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: atlantis.cs.orst.edu

In article <1992Dec22.210228.18993@HQ.Ileaf.COM> rap@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Roger Powell) writes:
>
>Okay, time for a short etymology lesson.
>
>Middle English:
>wicca (pron. Witch-ah) - A male witch. (We've been around for a _long_ _time_)
>wicce (pron. Witch-eh) - A female witch.
>  [Both of the above lose the final vowel and become 'witch' in Modern English]
>wiccan (pron. Witch-an) - Witches.
>
I was reading "Tam O'Shanter" by Robert Burns yesterday and in the back 
there was a short Gaelic dictionary.  _Carlin_ was listed as a word for
witch.  Can anyone verify this?
Paul

-- 
                          * * * * * * *
"It is possible to join forces, to identify common goals, and to agree on
 common action." - U.N. World Commission on Development and Environment
		       casspa@jacobs.cs.orst.edu
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Nomenclature./Men are Not witches!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 00:39:25 GMT

lib1p@elroy.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
: In article <1992Dec22.211732.7987@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>, billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes...
: >sirbyte@brewich.hou.tx.us (William hancock) writes:
: >: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
: >: > : The correct terminology for a man who endeavors to engage in magical
: >: > : practices is "Warlock".  The more gender nuetral term would be
: 
: Actually this isn't true.  (I know, I know, .... flame away)

Hey, come on. At least post what I wrote - or leave my name out of
the attribution.  I did not write any of the garbage written above.

Bill
From: lib1p@elroy.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Here I am .... *yea* !!!!!
Date: 23 Dec 1992 23:23 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: elroy.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Well guys, here I am, at home, with my 'puter and modem, talking on alt.pagan.

8)  8)  8)  8)

I guess y'all will be hearing my big mouth more often from now on.

(Is that a groan I hear our there?)

BB with all my love,
Tammy the contented
From: lib1p@elroy.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Single Pagans
Date: 28 Dec 1992 05:58 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: elroy.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1hm5pnINNsf3@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cn573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ray Henry) writes...
> 
>Question:  What is a good way for a solitary practitioner to meet
>other single pagans socially?  I am tired of the bar scene, and
>I am not impressed with many of the people who post in alt.personals
>or soc.singles.
> 

The best way to meet new pagans in your area, whether they be single or no, is
to find out where they "hang out".  Your best bet is to find a local "magic
shop" or a newspaper/magazine that caters to the local alternative lifestyles.
Here you can find out about various pagan groups.  Some places have monthly
meetings where pagans from all over town get together to socialize.  Generally
it doesn't matter what you follow, you don't even HAVE to be pagan, just
pagan-positive.

Another way is to log on to a pagan BBS.   Try to find a local 
newspaper/magazine devoted to local computer enthusiast.  Usually they will
have listings for the local BBS's.

These will bring you into social contact with local pagans.  From there I think
you can find the single ones 8-)


>With Love and Light,
> 
>Antryg
>-- 
>Ray Henry   cn573@cleveland.freenet.edu
> 


Blessed Be
Tammy the matchmaker
From: SL500000@brownvm.brown.edu (Robert Mathiesen)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: emotional tarot readings?
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 13:26:41 EST
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

Don't blame yourself for this one, Dawn.  There's no way whatever one can go
through life, acting as one always does in greater or lesser ignorance of the
whole picture, and not cause to some extent the apparently meaningless deaths
of other people.  Mostly we just never find out -- that's a mercy, of course
--, so they don't trouble us.  I work as a scholar; some years ago I played
a small role in unmasking a forgery (of a historical document).  This, as it
happened, placed such stress on the forger that he killed two people horribly
by bombs, and placed a whole shopping mall of people at risk seeking a third
victim.  He is now in prison, but will get out someday, and my role is now a
matter of record.  He may try to kill me, and since I work as a University
he may endanger or kill any number of students in the process.  Such were the
consequences of being asked to look at a filing-card sized piece of printed
paper and say whether it really had been printed in 1639 (as it seemed to be),
or was a modern forgery.  It is my profession to find out the truth, and
truth not only makes free, but sometimes brings death.  I continue to feel
pain and sorrow over these apparently needless deaths, but not guilt.  The
guilt rests on the forger's head.

Nor does inactivity protect one from this; inactivity also has its
consequences, and really is a kind of activity, so there is simply no
way to avoid the kind of thing that has happened to you.

Your querent's horrified eagerness to find certainty that her daughter
will succeed in killing herself next time suggests to me some deeply
unresolved feelings on her part about her daughter's role in her life.
Clearly your reading tapped the "cess-pool" that lies at the bottom of
everyone's mind.  You may not feel up to it yourself, but somebody who
is good at it would be well employed in exploring these feelings with
your querent further.  It's likely to be pretty messy, and take a long
time; but some good may come out of it in the end.  You did try your
hardest, it is clear, to steer her interpretation in a more useful
direction, in a direction which would give your querent freedom and
responsibility to act; but she seems to have wanted none of that!
Can you take some comfort in considering *why* she wouldn't hear you?

Like everything else in life, readings also escape one's control
at times.  No one ever becomes sufficiently perfect, sufficiently
competent, to obtain really firm control over the results of one's
actions.

You have my very best wishes for coping with this most diffcult situa-
tion as it unfolds.  -- Robert

Robert Mathiesen, Brown University, SL500000@BROWNVM
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 18:18:47 GMT
Organization: n.o.y.b

In article <1hbkceINN3u9@leela.CS.ORST.EDU> casspa@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Paul Cass) writes:
<Munch!>
>Can someone kindly tell me why cats insist on standing on the keyboard
>and presenting their fanny while you are trying to type.  This cat has
>a very limited vocabulary consisting of "hold me", "feed me" "let me out",
>and "see my butt".  Come to think of it I have known a number of people
>with the same general view of life.

The reason is elementary, my dear Paul: you are *not* paying due attention
to your lord & master (mistress?). After all, who are we all working for?
(Doug Adams had it wrong, in THGTTG; it's cats, not white mice.)

A friend, long ago, had, on her SCA device, a grey cat passant, upon a
book, open. This is, of course, standard position (try to read your
Sunday paper). Why do you think your keyboard & monitor should be any
different?

	mark, the be-catted
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: Space, the final frontier
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 3 Jan 93 22:56:50 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <PZDswB3w165w@brewhau.bison.mb.ca> magus@brewhau.bison.mb.ca (James Copland) writes:
>cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>
>[snip ...]
>>
>> Uh -- how do you keep the launching station from soaking up momentum by
>> shooting off in the opposite direction?  You'd have to build a PRETTY
>> BIG FUCKING STATION.
>>
>> Blessings,
>> Janis
>
>Salut!
>
>Or bolt the launching station to the moon! Yes, it increases the moons
>rotational velocity.  Two of them could balance each other out by
>launching simultaneously in opposite directions.  In free space
>adjustments could be made via retro rockets.

Seems like a lot of cut and paste.  The fact remains, launching a big
something in space ain't like taking a freeway exit.

And, yes, I know cut and paste is subjective; one person's cut and paste
is another's brilliant design insight.

Blessings,
Janis 

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: rjb@carson.u.washington.edu (LeGrand Cinq-Mars)
Subject: Re: Faggots and witches (again)
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 01:45:35 GMT

Nevertheless, the use of the words "fag" and "faggot" to mean "male
homosexual" is basically North American.  It was first recorded in
North America, and it isn't characteristic of British English at all
(except perhaps in imitation of North American slang, and only very
recently if at all).

Don't you think it unlikely that a usage some people now claim to derive
from European persecutions of several centuries ago should first be
recorded in the late 19th century in North America?  In English?
And not Latin or French or Spanish?

I recommend checking the Oxford English Dictionary.  And not teriary or
quaternary sources that have less reliability than the average urban legend.

--LeGrand

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Faggots and witches (again)
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:55:28 GMT

Months ago there was a thread about a supposed origin of the 
term "faggot".

I finally found a reference in print with the quote I remembered.

This is in a footnote from Robin Morgan "Going Too Far", in chapter
"Politics of Sado-Masochistic Fantasies". (P235 paperback ed.):

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
... By calling _themselves_ "faggots," they affirm those homosexual
males persecuted in the Middle Ages: "When a woman was to be burned
as a witch, men accused of homosexuality were bound and mixed
with the bundles of kindling (faggots) at the feet of the witch,
and set of fire 'to kindle a flame foul enough for a witch to burn
in.' So the enemy has always seen that strong women and gentle men
are a real threat to masculine domination." This quote is from
Double-F, A Magazine of Effeminism...
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

(From a reference to another footnote it may be the "Winter/Spring
issue of 1973")

I saw elsewhere a posting that ascribed this quote to a poem by Kenneth
Pitchford.  I find this plausible, since he was Robin Mogan's
spouse at the time, yet she was a bit reticent about the connection
at times.

I suspect if they are the source, Robin Morgan's book may have
been important in making it widespread.

Can any of you confirm or deny this further?

-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
                      |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: mimir@hardy.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Subject: Re: PAGAN & NOMENCLATURE
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 07:40:07 GMT

In article <1308700012@igc.apc.org> coyote@igc.apc.org (Thomas Follis) writes:
>
> Arnt we forgetting, "And it harms mo one, Do what thou wilt"?

 Aren't we forgetting that not everyone here is Wiccan and that is the
Wiccan Rede?