HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Strike 1 on Commissioner
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:14:41 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <1992Jul24.174851.3874@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <5117@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:
>>In article <1992Jul24.101912@IASTATE.EDU> jkness@IASTATE.EDU (Joel K  
>>Ness) writes:
>>> >   The Cubs have been granted their request for a preliminary  
>>injunction
 
>>> What makes more sense Cubbie fans, Atlanta in the NL west or your Cubs?
>>> This is really stupid!!!  Waaa  Waaaa


>>Which city is closer to Pittsburgh, New York, Montreal, and the other
>>Eastern cities?

>Which city is closer to Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, and the other
>Western cities?

If distance is the issue, then we need two groups of six such that the
sum of the intra-group distances is minimized.  Although this is an NP hard
problem, n is small so exhaustive search is feasible.  There are 12 choose 6 / 2
possibilities, which might be 462 if my arithmetic is correct.  Some can
be pruned, like all with both San Diego and Montreal.  It is likely that
the best solution will have LA, San Diego and SF (and Denver) in the same
division, further reducing the number to check.


However, the objective function to be optimized contains other terms, like
TV $$ and "rivalry" preferences...

In my opinion, the only other alternative to Fay's is North/South, 
SD, LA, SF, Den, Hou, Atl & Florida and
Mon, NY, Phi, Pit, Chi, Stl, Cin.

This makes the South pretty spread out, but otherwise is pretty fair.
It does put both expansion teams in the same division, but in 20 years,
who will notice?

or...  perhaps just switching StLouis for Atlanta? 

I vote for the Commissioner's plan (or would, except I don't get a vote...) 


-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
From: guilford@otago.ac.nz
Date: 30 Jul 92 12:46:53 +1300
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand

In article <5179@transfer.stratus.com>, jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann) writes:

> Luck is random. The "slippery essence ... " is superstar A giving
> it 100% even when he's so tired he wants to sit down, while
> superstar B, in the same situation, does not.  It is people playing
> when hurt.  Or, to take an example from another sport, it is
> Willis Reed, barely able to walk, coming back to play after going down 
> with a nasty injury: the Lakers were dead as soon as he walked out
> out on the court.

My favorite examples of things like this from other sports are Charley
Kreuger, crippled for life and in constant pain, and Kenny Easley,
now on dialysis.  Another good (but different) example is Jack Clark,
not trying to play (probably ineffectively) on a bad ankle in 1987,
enabling his team to use his PA's more effectively.  

My question is, how do you know how tired superstar B is?  How do you
know he wants to sit down?  How do you know he's not giving it 100%?
Have YOU ever given it less than 100% in a like situation?  Do you
think someone else has observed you in a pressure situation and believed
that you were not giving it 100%?  

How do you know superstar A just wasn't in better shape?

A situation in MLB where I think character may be thought of as coming
into play is in the situation of an "RBI man" swinging at bad pitches
in the big situation.  You might believe (I have no idea) that this
is what happened to Barry Bonds in recent post-season play, that he
wanted hits and not walks.  If this were true, one way of looking at this
is that he lusted after glory, a character flaw, but another way of 
looking at it is that he was trapped in a role (expectations of manager
and teammates that he swing at the ball) or even that he knew that if he
didn't do it, no one else on his team would, and so took a good gamble.

(The supposed classic example of this is Gene Garber knowing that Pete
Rose would swing at anything with his hit streak on the line, and using
this info to make Rose an easy out -- I don't know how true this is, but
my appreciation of Garber went up enormously).

Bill Guilford
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Yo Cardinal fans...
Date: 28 Jul 92 22:33:35 GMT
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

In article <1992Jul28.210746.20700@pbhya.PacBell.COM> mndavis@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Mark N. Davis) writes:
>To whom it may concern in St. Louis:
>
>I'm trying to find out what the story is with Geronimo Pena. I'll the
>info that I can find says that he's on the DL with a 'weak right shoulder'.
>What in the hell kind of injury is that? What's his prognosis? Are they
>keeping him on the DL to let Oquendo get some ABs? Is it true that they
>want to play him the outfield when he returns? Is this guy as good as I
>think that he can be? Is this enough questions?



>                  Thanks in advance for any info,
>                             Mark
>
>PS - Of course he's on my rotissirie team. Why else would I be asking >:-)


Geronimo Pena fractured his shoulder(I guess it was the clavicle) in
Spring Training. When he came back he was red hot at the plate, but
experienced discomfort throwing and in general the shoulder felt
"weak". The Cardinals apparently were advised by their doctors to
put him on the DL and rest the shoulder. Obviously they were afraid
it hadn't properly healed and didn't want to damage him more
seriously.

I love Pena as a prospect with one real flaw, he's now ~24 and hasn't
played fulltime in I believe the last 3 years. This year injured,
last year on the bench(had to be on roster, was out of options),
the previous year split time in AA and AAA but had 2 stints on
the DL, one for a deep cut in his hand(broken bat somehow cut
him if I recall the story), and was also out with a fairly unusual
illness that escapes me right now(may have been Tuberculosis).

Pena was the fastest guy in the system until they drafted Basil Shabazz
(June 91), has power, is a switch hitter, and although not in Oquendo's
class, is a good 2nd baseman. This year he was walking much more often
than he ever had before, he still strikes out too much, and gets 
caught stealing too much, but he's got the tools. the question is
will he stay healthy and will they finally give him a fulltime
job be it at 2B(Ozzie gone, Oquendo at SS) or in LF(which was
discussed in spring training before he got hurt). They need his
bat and legs in the lineup, he's been the best leadoff man on
the team this year, in an admittedly small sample size.





Russ Smith
*******************************************************************************
"Mellow is the man, who knows what he's been missing
many, many men can't see the open road".
                                    Over the hills and far away- Led Zeppelin  
******************************************************************************




Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: Don Soucy <AB47@UNB.CA>
Subject: "BALTOMRE CHOP" (was RE: ARTFICIAL TURF)
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:09:58 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.160105.21764@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>In article <92202.183405IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ryan Robbins) writes:
>
>Do you know anything about the history of the name "Baltimore chop"?
>
>  According to my faithful copy of Dickson's, the term first showed
 up in print in the April 1910 issue of Baseball magazine.  However,
 "it got its name, by all accounts, in the 1890s when the tactic
 was perfected by Wee Willie Keeler of the old Baltimore Orioles.
 Two other Baltimore batsmen, John McGraw and Wilbert Robinson,
 also used it as a method to get on base.  Evidence suggests
that at the Orioles' field, the dirt near home plate was purposely
>hardened to make the ball bounce higher."  [an embarassment to
 baseball??:-)] Dickson goes on to define the old-time Baltimore
 chop, then adds: "'Today's Baltimore chops, however, are almost
 always accidental.' ... However, the term is very much alive, as
 this kind of hit comes more easily on artificial turf."

 Don Soucy


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu (Dave Bonar)
Subject: Re: Reasonably priced good team
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-24383]: sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
Organization: News and Views from LSU
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 13:49:18 GMT

In article <3970@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes...
>In article <1992Jul29.213254.23833@leland.Stanford.EDU> bohnert@leland.Stanford.EDU (matthew bohnert) writes:
>>In an aside to the common practice of assembling (usually) high-priced
>>`Dream Teams', my friend Juan and I today went about the task of
>>creating what we thought was a pretty good team of reasonably priced
>>players.  

	I've thought of doing this also.  The problem is that any list of
cheap, good players is just a list of the players who are too young for
arbitration.  

>This is really very similar to trying to pick an expansion roster.  The
>overlap between "cheap" players and "unprotected" players is quite large.

	I'm not so sure.  Maybe I'm being too practical but it seems 
likely that good young players are going to be protected and expensive
older (but not 10/5) players will be the ones left off.  But then, in 
reference to another thread, I'd leave Ryan off the Texas list without a 
thought.

>Let me take a stab at two "cheap" rosters that might be competitive:
> 
>		NL					
> 
>	Dave Hollins		3B		
>	Keith Mitchell		LF		
>	Steve Finley		CF	
>	Matt Stairs		RF	

	I find it hard to believe that Hollins and Finley wouldn't be
protected.  I agree that Stairs and/or Mitchell will end up unprotected
due to shear numbers of players and prospects on their teams.

Dave
__________
Dave Bonar
eebonar@lsuvax.sncc.lsu.edu
__________

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: bst@wang.com (Bruce Tannenbaum)
Subject: Re: Both Canadian teams in first place
Organization: Wang Labs, Lowell MA, USA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 12:46:33 GMT
Keywords: Canadian first

maceache@fox.nstn.ns.ca (Tim Maceachern) writes:

>I believe this is the first time (other than the first one or two days 
>of a season) that both Canadian teams have been in first place at the
>same time.  How'd you like a World Series played completely in Canada, eh?
	     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
IT WOULD BE COOL!  (FRIGID, EVEN!)

--Bruce
-- 
Bruce S. Tannenbaum (RADAR) <bst@wang.com>
VoiceCom Systems Inc., San Francisco, CA and Tewksbury, MA.
"I have a cunning plan!"
From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Alex Cole
Date: 27 Jul 92 16:09:32 GMT

Heard on WTBS yesterday while Alex Cole was hitting from I believe Ernie
Johnson.

"When Cole first come up in the Cardinals' system, they thought he was
another Vince Coleman who could steal 80-100 bases a year. The problem
for him has been getting on base."

Has Coleman ever had an OBP as good as Cole's OBP while he was in 
Cleveland? Cole gets caught stealing too much, but getting on base
is not a problem for him.


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: drraymon@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca (Darrell Raymond)
Subject: Re: Both Canadian teams in first place
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 12:58:29 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.191022.115548@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, jm0i@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOSEPH ALOYSIUS MCVEIGH) writes:
> spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira) writes:
> 
> >The more interesting question is - how would CBS like a World Series
> >played completely in Canada?
> 
> They'd probably have to hire Don Cherry and John Davidson to broadcast it.

  You make it sound like it wouldn't be an improvement...

-Darrell. 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: news@bmerh85.bnr.ca (Usenet News)
Subject: Another Jays Trade In Works
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 13:27:31 GMT

	Now that the Jays have acquired Mark Eichorn, this makes one of the 
current Jays' releivers expendable.  In the Toronto Star this morning, Pat Gillick is quoted as saying that another deal is in the works for a left-handed 
power-hitter and it will likely involve a Toronto releiver.  Now that Toronto
has a capable setup man for Henke, look for the Jays to move either Ward or 
Timlin.  What you think, guys/gals?

From: mjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Sabatella)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:47:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Fielder, RBI, and uptight netters
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

In rec.sport.baseball, tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:

> Consider that in the AL last year, there were 10,172 runs scored and
> only 687 sac flies.  That's less than one every three games.  In the
> NL, the figure is 7955 runs (fewer teams, remember) and 562 sac flies.

Indeed.  I've always been uneasy with this characterization of Fielder and
Carter as people who have lots of counterproductive RBI outs, because I've
never seen actual statistics on how many of their RBI's came that way, and
intuition tells me it can't possibly be all that many.  I've always thought
this was a bit of a red herring.

Yet I still believe their RBI totals are nothing special.  I don't know about
this year, but in the last two years, when we had the data, it was shown that
Fielder and Carter had disproportionately high numbers of runners on base in
front of them.  High enough that their percentage of baserunners driven in was
merely good (in Fielder's case) or even only average (Carter), as I recall.

The outmaking aspect is still very relevant.  My impression is not that Carter
and Fielder drive in a lot of runs by making outs, but rather, that when they
come up with runners on base, they either drive them in or leave them stranded,
as opposed to, say, Frank Thomas, or Mark McGwire this year, who also have a
high likelihood of "merely" advancing the runners, or walking without advancing
them.  This is where you need some sort of analysis to tell you which is
better, because many people's intuition is that it is better to trade a few
outs for a few sure runs, but the "expected runs" tables tell you otherwise.

I think claiming that Fielder's or Carter's RBI totals are misleading because
they consist of a lot of "RBI outs", or that they are "stealing" RBI
opportunities from players further down the line, is probably not quite right.
I think number of opportunities, and number of entirely unproductive outs, are
bigger factors in why I believe their RBI totals are no big deal.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc "Dave" Sabatella		Disclaimer: OPS is not the One True Statistic
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com		that makes all others obsolete
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mmmm - po-ta-to chips!" - John Stuart Mill
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: RE: ARTIFICIAL TURF: EMBARASSMENT TO THE GAME
Date: 21 Jul 92 15:01:11 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <21JUL92.08541720@wums.wustl.edu> peirick_j@wums.wustl.edu  
writes:
> 
> Quick anecdote:  Rain delay here about three years ago.  Bob Costas and  
Mike
> Shannon killing time during the shower.  Mike Shannon observes that  
since
> the game is taking place on artificial turf with a new drainage system,  
the
> delay after the rain stopped would be minimal.  Bob Costas responds  
that
> yes it's true, and it's the beginning, middle, and end of the list of  
good 
> things about artificial turf. 
> --

You can get the same effect with real grass by building the appropriate
drainage under the surface. Look at Camden Yards.  They claim they
can get that field ready after a rain delay as fast or faster than
someone with artificial turf. 

Another gripe about turf:  for those stadiums that have to have
this abomination, can't they at least get a variety that's the same
color as real grass.  Artificial turf is ugly stuff to look at.

--
Jim Mann       jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  Stratus Computer
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: 69 Mets
Date: 28 Jul 92 22:12:59 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <Don.1.0@wang.com> Don@wang.com (Don Rivard) writes:
>Who were the 4 mets pitchers during the 69 seasons?	
Koosman, Seaver...


>Also who were the 4 20 game winners for baltimore?
McNally, Cuellar, Palmer & Dobson?  1971, I think.


-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
From: dkl@cs.arizona.edu (David K. Lowenthal)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: A's stun Twins...
Date: 31 Jul 92 19:50:48 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <9207311724.AA29041@sumac09.cray.com> jjd@TEAK.CRAY.COM (Jeff Drummond) writes:
>The really ugly game was on Tuesday night (A's won 12-10).  Both LaRussa
>and Kelly were sacrificing like mad in the first 6 innings, like they
>expected it to be a close, low-scoring game.  As a Twins fan, I don't
>mind seeing the A's sacrificing in the early innings; but there was
>Kelly, matching LaRussa sacrifice for sacrifice.  If those chowderheads
>had been playing for some big innings, they might have put another dozen
>runs on the board.

I hate the sacrifice bunt.

"If you play for one run, that's all you'll get."





--dave
From: ellis86@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Bo-sox schedule anyone????? ; Please...
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:05:33 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

I know, I know, I am a big time loser because this is the only place
I know to come to to find out a schedule, but hey....

Anyway, could ANYONE please MAIL me a home schedule for the red sox 
for their weekend games, from july 31 till about the end of august.
I will be in new england for this period of time, and will only have time 
of during the weekend. So, that should explain it. Please help


THank EwE Vewy  Mush     -Menno
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt Bose "of Biscayzee")
Subject: Re: rc/27 for ss'
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 18:43:18 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico
Distribution: rec

In article <1992Jul23.032554.18068@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.834.39911@dosgate> "russell tisseman" <russell.tisseman@canrem.com> writes:
>>NL=>Manuel Lee, Toronto             4.18 (definitely not an all-star)
>>
>>Maybe not an all star but his defense makes up for this. And anyway I 
>>will take a solid fielding shortstop over a good hitting shortstop who 
>>can't field.
>>
>>I was one of the guys who were down on Manny at the start of the year 
>>but this little guy looks better as time goes on. I am very pleased 
>>with his hitting and ecstatic over his fielding.
>
>But he is still no all-star.  These three AL SS', IMO, are better *both*
>offensively and defensively than Lee:
>
>Mike Bordick
>Cal Ripken
>Omar Vizquel
>
>These three *might* not be better defensively, but their *much* better offense
>should more than compensate for it:
>
>Travis Fryman
>Andy Stankiewicz
>Pat Listach
>
>If he is at best the 7th best SS in the league, there is no justification
>whatsoever for him to be a shortstop.

You did mean to say "All-Star", right, Nelson?  If you didn't, explain.


-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) - kbos@carina.unm.edu - I'm not the AntiChrist
I AM a Junior Stathead.  Flame me; it's fun!  I'm a shutmouthed, selfless idiot!
Latest Attempted Compiler of the R.S.BB FAQ - Now Accepting Submissions...(hint)
Have you hugged a Dan Gladden fan today? - Dave Rossing : .456/39/132 at Denver!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: vreddy@husc3.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Braves Fans
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:26:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Jul24.152628.14139
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1992Jul23.202223.19419@rigel.econ.uga.edu>, molly@uga.edu writes:
> In article <1992Jul23.112608.1@acad3.alaska.edu> tssb@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
>>reIn article <1410@hades.hera.Sbi.Com>, jwhirley@zip.sbi.com (John Whirley) writes:
>>> 
>>> 	Yes, the Astros series was quite a let down after the Braves series.
>>> My TBS "America's Superstation" is on the blink, please tell me how the Braves
>>> are doing against the Mets.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 	Looks like I was in error in my reply.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 	Enjoy third place.
>>> 
>>> 				Yours truly,
>>> 
>>> 				A Reds fan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  The Braves are now in first, where we will stay. Sorry.
> 
> you can say that again.  
> 
> mr
>>                               A Braves fan

and again and again and again and again and again...
The Braves have established themselves (finally -- this Braves fan has been
waiting YEARS for this day) as one of the BEST major league clubs, and
with one of the best pitching lineups, as well as some pretty damn good 
hitting, they aren't going to be drowning any time soon. They had a slow
start, and as far as I can figure, that's the major reason the Reds jumped
to first, but now, with over 75% of their last 40 games, and 11 in a row,
the Braves are the team to beat... and it just ain't gonna happen.
Sorry to disappoint you Reds fans (and even you NL East fans). :)

-- Venk Reddy --

Born 'n' bred in Georgia and the Carolinas, and damn proud of it!
Go Hornets, Braves, Falcons, and Gamecocks! :)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: rc/27 for ss'
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Distribution: rec
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:42:52 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.834.39911@dosgate> "russell tisseman" <russell.tisseman@canrem.com> writes:
>Maybe not an all star but his defense makes up for this. And anyway I 
>will take a solid fielding shortstop over a good hitting shortstop who 
>can't field.

Why?

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: steinman@me.utoronto.ca (David Steinman)
Subject: Re: Best Looking Swing
Organization: UofT Mechanical Engineering
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:51:02 GMT

<ALWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:

>    When I watch a good hitter at the plate, they will show the swing of the
>  hitter in slow motion. IMHO the best looking swings I've seen are:
>        1) Dave Justice
>        2) Will Clark
>        3) Don Mattingly
>        4) George Brett

>    These  are all good hitters. Of course, there are more but these are the
>  ones that I can name offhand. If you care to add more or comment on those
>  that I have just named  feel free. I know that George Brett was influenced
>  by Charlie Lau's  style of hitting, I don't know about the others though...

Let's not forget "the sweet swing of John Olerud".  He really does have a nice looking
swing.  And he's batting over 280 now :-)
--
Dave!