HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wagner@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Truth According to Mickie Medved
Date: 7 Nov 92 12:40:58 EST

In article <pquince.721074003@blacks>, pquince@blacks.jpl.nasa.gov (Peter Quince) writes:
> 
> Now, whether or not you happen to think this is a good example, it
> certainly does not constitute proof.  But it does strengthen the
> argument.  I think that the problem itself is inconsistent; it does 
> not suit its own medium.  A person goes through phases, at one moment 
> grieving a terrible loss, and perhaps years later recovering the 
> capacity to laugh, albeit grimly, at the cause of that loss.  
> 
> I have never heard a funny holocaust joke; most prey on the prejudices
> and fears of ignorance; and such 'sarcastic' humor is a failure of 
> spirit.  But humor that is part of understanding and coping with 
> terrible realities is valid, I think.  Only it has an appropriate 
> time and place as well.
> 
> pquince
> --
> 
> 
Tadeusz Borowski's _This Way for the Gas, Ladies and Gentlemen_ has 
plenty of grim humor about the holocaust.  It's a collection of 
short stories about life in one of the concentration camps, written 
by a survivor.  For the interested, Mr Borowski is the subject of
one of the chapters in Czeslaw Milosz's _The Captive Mind_.
                                                -Luke
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: The Truth According to Mickie Medved
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:34:47 GMT


> colten@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (marc.colten) writes:
 
># # #There are things that can't be laughed at?  Topics that contain no
># # #raw material for humor?  Like what?
># #
># # Torturing political prisoners to death. To name one thing.
>#
 
># What about Woody Allen's Bananas where they use rock music to
># wear down a prisoner, and consider "bringing out the Leroy Neiman
># paintings" as the coup de grace?
>#
># marc colten
 
> The source of the humor isn't torture (because I think we all
> recognize that rock music and Leroy Neiman paintings aren't
> torture), but in the insults to both forms of art.
 
But listening to Howard Cosell was one of the other forms of torture.
Here, Clayton's argument does not hold.  :-)
 
Mark

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Subject: Re: The Truth According to Mickie Medved
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 08:44:04 GMT

In article <6NOV92.20480194@vax.clarku.edu> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:
}
}Here's a variation on a theme for you:
}
}         Q:  How many politically correct persons does it take to
}             change a lightbulb?
}
}         A:  You are a racist, sexist, homophobic crypto-Fascist.
}             Have a nice day.

Marge Piercy, my sister-who-goes-to-Mills tells me, has condemned the word
"person" because it contains that "son" bit, which all right-thinkers (or is
that Left-thinkers?) must be aware refers to the male gender, and thus excludes
the other one.  She suggests "perchild" instead.  My sister uses "individual,"
which has yet to be deconstructed into a no-no, surprisingly.


Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Voltaire
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.music.makers,rec.music.misc,rec.music.synth,rec.arts.misc,rec.arts.fine,rec.music.funky,rec.music.industrial,rec.music.compose
From: wsherman@ncsa.uiuc.edu (William Sherman)
Subject: Bookstores (used or not) in Minneapolis
Organization: National Center for Supercomputing Applications
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:24:08 GMT

I checked the list of bookstores in the archive, but there isn't
anything for the Twin Cities.  When I asked about San Fran/San Jose
a couple monthes ago, I received a lot of good replys, now I'm going
to a conference in Minneapolis, so I'm wondering what recommendations
people have.

I'll mostly be walking in downtown Minneapolis, but I do have some
friends in the area, and a lot of my wife's relatives are up there,
so I will be in different areas.  Also, we go there twice a year
anyway, so it would be nice to have a good reference.

I see Douglas Adams will be in St. Paul tommorow night.  I miss him
by three days, and I don't think he'll be coming to Champaign-Urbana.

	Thanks,
	Bill

P.S. I'll also be asking about used CD/record stores in another
newsgroup, but I thought I'd mention it here as well.

-- 
/************************************************************************/
/* Bill Sherman								*/
/* National Center for Supercomputing Applications			*/
/* University of Illinois						*/
/* Champaign-Urbana							*/
/*									*/
/* Internet: wsherman@ncsa.uiuc.edu					*/
/*									*/
/*   "You want to do mankind a real service?  Tell funnier jokes."	*/
/* 		Og							*/
/************************************************************************/
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: ashall@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Andrew S Hall)
Subject: Re: other books by ACD?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:22:42 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.151248.23773@esds.mdc.com> bonney@esds.mdc.com (Greg Bonne
y) writes:
>Anybody care to post a list of non-Sherlock Holmes books by Arthur
>Conan Doyle?

I can't provide a total list but there are two that are priceless.

1)  The Lost World.   This is the classic story of a party that
                      discovers a plateau in S. Amer. that is
                      populated by dinosaurs.

2) The Maracot Deep    This is hard to find. I suggest old Sci-Fi
                       anthologies. This is an undersea version
                       of Lost World. It is one of the most
                       unintentionally hilarious works ever.
                       It involves a lost undersea race of fish
                      people and a scientific party's encounter
                      with them

Andrew Hall
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: msmorris@watsci.UWaterloo.ca (Mike Morris)
Subject: Re: The trouble with gurus
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:41:39 GMT

                                 Wednesday, the 11th of November, 1992
 
Sanjiva Prasad writes:
                   I attended this talk, Mumble actually, by Bloom where
   he said the usual things about there being no non-Western literature, 
   only to be met with a torrent of "But what about Indian and Japanese
   and ...?" 

I've heard some mumbling myself, especially about it being *usual*
to say there's no non-Western literature. No doubt it's very commonly
said, but I must admit I've never heard anybody actually say it.
Also no doubt Bloom in person was very different from Bloom in print,
but I must say that if _Closing of the American Mind_ were any gauge
the notion that no non-Western literature exists would be a bizarre
thing to attribute to Allan Bloom.

             Mike Morris
      (msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca)
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Et in Arcadia ego
Date: 12 Nov 1992 15:00:14 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

Heather Henderson writes:

	MacFideau writes:

		Islay Mist, to my mind the archetypal Single Malt. 

	Don't forget Laphroaig.

Too clean for my palate. Its name is the best thing about it. Its
proper pronunciation seperates the boyyos from the bairns. I encourage 
"Lap Frog" which innuends a tame froggie on ones knee.

							Frang na Mara
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: maddona's [sic] new book [sic]?
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:15:18 GMT


donz@ui.org (Don Zirilli <Posthumous O'Toole>) writes:
 
mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:
 
>> As with everything else that she does, and in spite of the books's title,
>> Madonna's new book is about one thing: Madonna
 
> This is all well and good and true, but let us remember one thing.
> Madonna is not Madonna.  She DID put out a book about Madonna, but
> not about herself.
 
I'm not sure where people end and personas begin.  If asked if Joe Green
is "Joe Green" -- I would say "No."  If asked if Francis Muir is "Fido" --
I would say -- "Not always, but often enough."  If asked if that Texan
psychiatrist is "Fiona Webster" -- I'd say "more often than not."  If
asked if Madonna is "Madonna" I'd say -- "Probably -- she is a 
wonderful self-promoter, but not a good actress."

Mark -- who is mostly "Mark -- but not always."
From: amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Advice to the World Weary (was Re: The Eudaemonic Pie
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:46:44 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

Mark Taranto writes:

      Our sending her would be to spread the good word, not to service
      libidinous graduate students.  I would never suggest anything so
      untoward.

You do disappoint me, Mark.  At least Francis knew that 85% of all men
are womanizers, and I'm still looking forward to those eye-lashings from
Mikhail's lady friend in New York.  But, no shortage of servicers here.
I offer some fatherly advice for all you kids watching at home, courtesy of
yours truly and _The Internatinal Thesaurus of Quotations_

Brisk Confidence still best with woman copes:
Pique her and soothe in turn -- soon Passion crowns thy hopes.
	--Byron

Every man is to be had one way or another, and every woman
almost any way.
	--Lord Chesterfield

Every maiden's weak and willin'
When she meets the proper villian.
	--Clarence Day

To win a woman in the first place one must please her, then undress her,
and then somehow het her clothes back on.  Finally, so that she will
allow you to leave her, you've got to annoy her.
	--Jean Giraudoux

All really great lovers are articulate, and verbal seduction is the
surest way to actual seduction.
	--Marya Mannes

Women can always be caught; that's the first rule of the game.
	--Ovid

Venus yields to caresses, not to compulsion.
	--Publilius Syrus

Women sometimes forgive those who force an opportunity, never those
who miss it.
	--Talleyrand

Don't fear to pledge.  By winds the perjuries of love
Are blown, null and void, across the land and farthest seas.
	--Tibullus

It is not enough to conquer; one must know how to seduce.
	--Voltaire

Now, where is all my feminist hate mail?  I can't wait, flood that
old mail-box, and we'll see what happens.  I stand guilty as charged,
Ms. PC-police-person!

-- 
Marko Amnell
amnell@klaava.helsinki.fi
Graduate Student in Philosophy
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Truth According to Mickie Medved
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:54:31 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Nov6.052908.29199@eff.org>, mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
> In article <1992Nov5.222809.10131@grebyn.com> fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster) writes:
> >There are things that can't be laughed at?  Topics that contain no
> >raw material for humor?  Like what?
> 
> Torturing political prisoners to death. To name one thing.
> 
> Mike Godwin,    |"I can solve this Orient Express thing without

Actually, any form of torture is inappropriate material for humor.

ObBookRemark: Read Cesare Beccaria's _On Crimes And Punishments_
for a crisp, pragmatic argument against the use of torture.  At 
least Henry Palolucci's translation of it reads marvelously modern 
in style, and is one of the few works of that era that I find can 
be read with benefit and pleasure today by most people.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
The Physician Assisted Death Initiative failed.  Term limits for Congressmen
passed.  If only we could have combined the two... two terms, and a doctor
does lethal injection...
From: zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: TAKING IN THE PUTZ by Tom Maddox (was re: PUTTING ON THE RITZ by Joe Keenan)
Date: 10 Nov 92 21:11:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Nov10.161135.17309
Followup-To: misc.test
Organization: The Phallogocentric Cabal

In article <1992Nov10.184602.27463@netcom.com> 
tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox) writes:

>	I would like to second Ms. Leeper's recommendations of Joe
>Keenan's books.  I think of him as a gay New York Wodehouse.  

Along the same lines, I hereby nominate Tom Maddox for the honorary
title of the American Oscar Wilde, with ample and explicit adjustments
made for his lack of style, substance, manners, and talent.

>-- 
>				Tom Maddox
>		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
>		"The Reptoids eat humans like we eat chickens."
>				Alex Alexander

cordially,
mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
"Un de mes plus grands plaisirs est de jurer Dieu quand je bande."
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:19777 alt.postmodern:2668
From: egross@jarthur.claremont.edu (Erik Maynard Gross)
Subject: Re: More 'salems Lot Bashing!
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 02:51:47 GMT


	I think it's important not to confuse King's methods with those of 
other famous vampire authors.  Specifically, Stokers "Dracula", and Rice's
series.  These novels are ABOUT vampires- about specific vampires; hence the
names. (Dracula, Interview..., The Vampire Lestat, Ramses..., all of which
are great books.)   Salems lot, on the other hand is about the town of
Jerusalems Lot, the people, politics, scumm and honor that makes the town
live.  (once again, hence the name.)
	Instead of trying to rehash Dracula, I think he's trying to create
a kind of morbid "our town".  
	In this sense, it IS like a soap opera or sitcom, because it's about
people, not vampires.


	just my 11.  (two bits)

					-Erik

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: joan@med.unc.edu (Joan Shields)
Subject: Re: The Eudaemonic Pie
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 03:28:24 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.232230.5279@netcom.com> tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox) writes:
>In article <1992Nov2.144747.8341@klaava.Helsinki.FI> amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell) writes:
>>I don't bring peace of mind, I bring a sword to cut you free from Habit.
>
>	*Megalomania alert*.

Yea, Tom, but he's kind of a cute megalomaniac - though he doesn't hold a
candle to you, in terms of being cute not megalomania.



Yours in wet fishes,

Joan
"I'd walk 600 miles for one of your smiles
 but I'd go even further for that thing you do with your tongue."
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Property Rights
Date: 10 Nov 92 21:10:43 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <1992Nov3.155745.24957@spider.co.uk> ian@spider.co.uk (Ian Heavens) writes:

>"If I were asked to answer the question: 'What is slavery?' and I should
>answer in one word 'Murder!', my meaning would be understood at once.
>No further argument would be needed to show that the power to take from
>someone their thought, their will, their personality, is a power of life 
>and death, and that to enslave a human is to kill them.  Why, then, to this
>other question: 'What is property?' may I not likewise answer, 'Theft'?"
>
>It may aid this discussion (*) to point out that Proudhon makes an important
>distinction between the ownership of objects for personal use, which he
>refers to as "possessions", and "property", the factories, tools, land,
>raw materials and so on, by means of which profits are made.  In the case
>of land, a comprehensible example of his most notable dictum might be the 
>conversion of common land into private property.
>

Especially in the case of land, I think Proudhon hit the nail right
on the head.  By what authority do human beings divide up the
earth into little (or big) squares and assert that they "own"
them?  It's never really been clear to me philosophically how
such a right is obtained.  You don't have to go back very far,
when it comes to most plots of land, to find where someone acquired
title to it over the bloody corpse of the previous occupants.
And even if you discovered an unihabited island, would that mean
you were the owner and could do whatever you wished with it?
Why?  Disputes between nations over territory is based on even
a more shaky foundation.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Et in Arcadia ego
Date: 9 Nov 1992 16:52:36 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

Carl F. Hostetter writes:

	Francis Muir wrote:

		For Roach it was something quite other. Scaling the 
		Three Mounds of the Horizontal Heather presented a
		challenge difficult to ignore, perhaps good enough 
		for inclusion in a modern-day *Trioedd Ynys Prydein* 
		to be laid opposite Peacock's great Trio of Immortal 
		Drunkards, Ceraint of Essyllwg, Gwrtheyrn Gwrthenau 
		and Seithenyn ap Seithyn Saidi.

	But Arthur himself was a greater drunkard than these.

I challenge you to produce documentary evidence that shews Arthur was
ever drunker than the following description of Seithe'nyn in Tom Lovely
P's *The Misfortunes of Elphin*.

	"You are welcome all. When a stranger enters, the custom in
	other places is to begin by washing his feet. My custom is,
	to begin by washing his throat. Seithenyn ap Seithyn Saidi bids 
	you welcome."

	Elphin, taking the wine-cup, answered,

	"Elphin ap Gwythno Garanhir thanks you."

	Seithenyn started up. He endeavoured to straighten himself
	into perpendicularity, and to stand steadily on his legs.
	He accomplished half his object by stiffening all his joints
	but those of his ancles, and from these the rest of his body
	vibrated upwards with the inflexibility of a bar. After thus
	oscillating for a time, like an inverted pendulum, finding
	that the attention requisite to preserve his rigidity 
	absorbed all he could collect of his dissipated energies, 
	and that he required a portion of them for his voice, which
	he felt a dizzy desire to wield with peculiar steadiness in
	the presence of the son of the king, he suddenly relaxed the
	muscles that perform the operation of sitting, and dropped
	into his chair like a plommet. He then, with a gracious
	gesticulation, invited Prince Elphin to take his seat on his
	right hand, and proceeded to to compose himself into a
	dignified attitude, throwing his body back into the left
	corner of his chair, resting his left elbow on its arm and
	his left cheekbone on the middle of the back of his left
	hand, placing his left foot on a footstool, and stretching
	out his right leg as straight and as far as his position 
	allowed. He had thus his right hand at liberty, for the
	ornament of his eloquence, and the conduct of his liquor.

The philologically inclined will have noted Peacock's spelling of ancles.
One thing nice about the Halliford Edition is that TLP's orthography
is preserved and, for the most part, his punctuation. A refreshing
change.

							Fido
From: maverick@acacia.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: A Literary Mr. Toad's Wild Ride
Date: 6 Nov 1992 18:44:59 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: acacia.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <9211061743.AA25783@cfdev1.shearson.com>, mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:
|> 
|> le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel) writes:
|>  
|> > So what other authors and novels do you think of in this light?
|> > You know, not just a story with ups and downs or exciting moments,
|> > and not just a character who lives through some sort of nightmare,
|> > but anguish and psychological tension where you experience frisson
|> > after frisson, find yourself drained and mentally perspiring when
|> > it's over, and haunted by it effect for days...

I forgot to add my own recommendation: Knut Hamsun. 
_Hunger_ and _Pan_ but *especially* _Mysteries_.  What a
book.  _Growth of the Soil_ is good, but very different.

	Vance
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Mike Sirota: Ro-Lan
From: jajohnston@ualr.edu
Date: 6 Nov 92 08:48:02 GMT
Organization: University of Arkansas at Little Rock
Summary: Searching For Ro-Lan Series

Once again, I am asking for any information anyone out there can give me
on the Ro-Lan series written by Mike Sirota.  Anyone with information on
where I can get copies of any of these books, other than #1-#4, please contact
me by mail, or post to this group.  Any help is appreciated, and thanks in 
advance.

jajohnston@ualr.edu

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox)
Subject: Re: The Eudaemonic Pie
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 23:22:30 GMT

In article <1992Nov2.144747.8341@klaava.Helsinki.FI> amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell) writes:
>I don't bring peace of mind, I bring a sword to cut you free from Habit.

	*Megalomania alert*.
-- 
				Tom Maddox
		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
		"The Reptoids eat humans like we eat chickens."
				Alex Alexander
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: Those Sexy Finns (was: Advice to the World Weary)
Organization: Clark University
Date: 9 NOV 92 17:06:59 GMT


amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell) wrote: 
>>>Maybe it's that fact I keep saying "I was taught not to eat with
>>>the help".  

and I wondered

>>How do you say that in Finnish?  The only Finnish phrase I can remember
>>is "hattupainen mies ja avoauto".  As you can guess, that doesn't
>>help much in conversation.

Marko replies:

>Easy, "Haista vittu!!", no, actually it's "Minulle on opetettu ett"a
>herrasmies ei sy"o renkien ja piikojen kanssa" or something like
>that.

Are you sure that doesn't mean "O you gorgeous peasant, let us go off 
to your hut and roll around on a reindeer hide"?  I admit it would
make an interesting change from "Hat-wearing man and convertible".   

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu