From: kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Who cares
Date: 25 Jul 92 23:47:03 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1992Jul24.114111.12965@linus.mitre.org>, heimberg@pacific.mitre.org (Jeff Heimberger) writes:
> 
> I will not even pretend that I understand all the issues surrounding
> gay rights -- I am not a member of that community by my own choice.
> However, I believe you are taking what I said out of context.  Gay
> rights groups were one in a long list of groups that I said might be
> better off working for the advancement of all humanity, instead of just
> their own narrow interests.

Jeff, this reminded me of something.  It was something said by a black
woman.  She worked a lot with both a women's rights group, and a Black
rights group.   She was asked (by one group or both, I don't remember)
where her loyalty was, with the Black rights group, or the women's
rights group.  Her answer was something like this...

"It would be nice if I were opressed for being black one half of the
week, then oppressed for being women the other half."

Her point, she was oppressed for both all the time.  

My point, many people who are activists for one thing or another, work
for more than one thing, and most often for the good of people in
general.   

It is hard to get everything at once, and cary any force, you have to
pick some specifics and work for them, then move on to the next. 

> IMHO, <IYFAO> would fair better if they could demonstrate that by
> making the changes they are fighting for, the American public would
> derive some benefit.  For example, gay rights activists could show that
> by accepting people for what they are, regardless of sexual
> orientation, the American public dErives some benefit.  The same goes
> for women's activists, African-American activists, etc., etc. etc.
> Perhaps that message is being put out -- but it doesn't come through
> very clearly, at least not to me.  And, unfortunate as it may be, I'm
> the type of guy <IYFAO> is trying to reach.

That is a lovely idea, and one I use to espouse, but it just isn't
going to happen any day soon.  Many people feel they have a divine
right, even responsibility to oppress such groups.   I think those
groups would love it if the "good for you too" idea could be accepted,
but it just doesn't work that way.  So they shoot for the next best
thing, legal protection and legal rights.   That unfortunatelyy calls
for specifics. 

> One other thing to consider.  It is relatively easy for <IYFAO> to
> march in the streets and demand a bigger slice of the pie.  It is quite
> another thing altogether for <IYFAO> to work to make the pie bigger for
> all, and still increase their own slice.  I would encourage <IYFAO> to
> lead by example, rather than by confrontation.

It is hard to lead by example when you are afraid to walk out your
front door, when you have to remain closeted to keep your job, your
family.  Or when your just SOL because your XX and the XY's in power
won't let you up.  Example Shmample.  When your people are dying at
the hands of the empowered its real useless to say "ah, but wouldn't
it be great if we could just love one another."  No you either cower
in fear or you get out in the street and scream bloody murder.   Maybe
some compassionate few will listen, and help you in your plight. 

The native americans preached peace and love, harmony with neighbors.
They backed off, making room for the Europeans, letting the settle.
-The European's need more land.  Let us give them more land.  Until
the Europeans took almost everything away, creating destruction
wherever they went. 

Looking back I don't know how it could have gone any different.  If
the XX's and the Gays, and the Blacks, and the whoever just said peace
and love, lets live in harmony, the White Men in power would give them
nothing, and take all.  But now the oppressed speak loudly, the
oppressed have more power more leverage.  When they yell in pain,
others listen, and the White Men feel pressured.  They do something,
anything, to keep their power, they make concessions.  And slowly the
oppressed gain their rights.  

Sheesh, it would make Marx proud, a little bit of communism at work. 

I use White Men, not to mean all XY's without color (you and me for
instance) but rather to mean the Old Boys sitting above the glass
ceiling, who are almost exclusively European Males, at least here in
the US.  Also those who exploit their European heriatage and Y
chromosome in a manner that harms others, usually in alliance with
those above the glass ceiling. 
-- 
___________________________________________________________________________

Stephen R. Figgins           |  There was an old woman
kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu   |  Who lived under the hill 
PO Box 1244                  |  And if she's not gone 
Lawrence, KS 66044	     |  She lives there still
___________________________________________________________________________
 
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