HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: erikred@ocf.berkeley.edu (Erik Nielsen)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Poets never cease....
Date: 6 Apr 92 21:56:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.rqhdiINN5fn
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: tempest.berkeley.edu

In article <PyNmiB3w162w@micor.ocunix.on.ca> graydon@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Graydon Saunders) writes:
>Oak, and Ash, and the Hammer of Thor...
>To quote Master Blake - your perceptions are being constrained by
>your metaphysics.
>
>If Paul Simon, Mark Knopfler, and Kate Bush (my favourite examples
>that you're all likely to have heard of) aren't commercially successful
>at least in part because they are very good poets, I would like
>your explanation.

Well, far be it from me to play Devil's Advocate.... Oh, what the hell.  To
tell you the truth, Kate Bush has an incredible voice which far outshines
the norm for pop-stars.  If she put out an album consisting entirely of her
singing just notes instead of words, I would still buy it.

Mark Knopfler has a wonderful gift for the home-y quality of folk without
the anachronistic turn-off folk carries.  Some of my favorite stuff of his
is primarily instrumental.  The words are secondary to the feeling evoked by
the music itself.

Paul Simon has a knack for bringing old styles out of the cultural closet
and into the mainstream limelight.  His success stems primarily from his
skill and versatility as a musician more than as a lyricist.

>Poetry is saying more than the words say, and it is unlikely to
>depart from the realm of knowledge anytime soon.

Fair enough.  However, I think that poetry is bound to find its own unique
twists and turns in the meantime.  One example of evolving poetry is the
advent of (dare I say it?) rap music.  Not my personal favorite, but some of
it is poetry.


>Graydon
>
>        Graydon the Curious         /graydon@micor.ocunix.on.ca
>  Skraeling Althing, EAldormere, MK / "Nihil est quin obsisti possit"

Erik, the BFG
-- 
     "All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
			Roy, _Blade Runner_
Erik Nielsen					erikred@ocf.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Barbara Trumpinski)
Subject: Re: All mind and no heart?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 14:10:38 GMT

In <1992Apr11.074245.2886@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jpalmer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John D Palmer) writes:


>      Nothing wrong with being overwhelmed with beauty and crying. . . 
>I cry sometimes as I plan out critical scenes in Angel War, the novel that 
>I'm going to write when I'm not working 750 hours a week. . . Or a song make
>me cry. . . or, as you said, a couple holidng hands and looking truly IN LOVE.
> 
>     Usually, for me, it's the sign that there's tooo much stress and not 
>enough happiness. . . I'm finding somethign lost. . . if I only
>had somethign to DO to recharge. . . but there's no time.  Sigh.
> 
>    Well, (grin) in about a week I'll be working only 1 job again, and
>I'll be wishing for the income from the second.
> 

"poor john"....kitten manuvers herself behind him and starts rubbing
his neck..."you need a break.

...about crying.  i am the original waterworks as far as that
goes...but i wouldn't consider sharing my life with a man who can't
cry.  tears are an expression of what is inside .... and crying at a
sad movie, or a significant song, or a deep felt feeling....that shows
what is inside a man and what he is willing to let out.  i think it is
a sin and a shame that our culture has decided that expression of true
feelings is not "manly"...bull***"  

with that statement, kitten starts paying attention to john's neck....

--
***************************************************************************
conan the librarian a.k.a. kitten           /\ /\  barbara ann 
"my life's a soap opera, isn't yours?"      {=.=}
                                              ~   trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu 

"kittens today are not properly trained--the way that they were when
victoria reigned." asparagus (gus: the theatre cat)
From: esti@quads.uchicago.edu (Paul A. Estin)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Snark finally gets a round tuit (a belated introduction)
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:42:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: midway.1992Apr8.194216.26524
Reply-To: esti@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Insanity Etc.

Snark looks up from a pile of papers on the bar in front of him, walks
over to the blackboard, and writes:

Paul Andrew Estin, the Snark
email: esti@midway.uchicago.edu or estin@um.cc.umich.edu
favorite drinks, alcoholic: strawberry daquiri, Kloster Andechs Dunkel beer
favorite drinks, non-alcoholic: varies by season
Birthday: July 4, 1968

"OK, so I've been posting since November and lurking since August and
still hadn't done that.  I can be a bit slow about these thing.  As
for a quick quasi-official self-introduction..."  Snark unrolls a long
sheet of paper:

	The title, in large gold lettering, is "The Hunting of the
Snark, by Lewis Carroll."  The entire poem follows, but in letters far
too small to see, except that you can just barely make out the last
line, "For the Snark *was* a Boojum, you see."
	After that, in normal-sized lettering, are the following words:
	In RL (real life), I am Paul Andrew Estin, a Ph.D.
pre-candidate at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, studying
"Cognition and Perception" (experimental psychology-- no Freud, no
therapy, no rats, no dreams).
	I am 23 years old.  I'm a fan of authors ranging from Lewis
Carroll to Larry Niven to William Shakespeare, of artists from Escher
and Dali to Monet and da Vinci, and of music from Mozart and
Stravinsky to R.E.M. and Talking Heads.
	I consider myself a generalist at heart, so there's no real
point in listing all the subjects which interest me.  There's a lot of
them, ranging from science to politics to sports to philosophy.
	Feel free to send me email (esti@midway.uchicago.edu), or to
visit me on HoloMuck (128.135.120.46 5757).
	Finally, the most important thing in my life is my girlfriend
Mary Anne ("Kateri" in Callahan's and HoloMuck).

Snark begins to walk towards the door and return to Real Life, where
he's got mounds of work to do.  He stops, however, walks over to the
Chalk Line, toasts "To Procrastination!", shatters the glass with a
prodigious throw into the fireplace, and proceeds to leave the Place
for the day, at last...

Or is he simply off to HoloMuck now? :)

-----
From a U. Chicago alumni letter sent to me:
"Was the University of Chicago a valuable and positive experience?
Are you a better person having gone there than, say, the U of
Michigan?"

Paul Andrew Estin, net.Snark, R.A.C.W.P., UCSFC F.C./K.S., F.C.S., H.C.
paul.estin@um.cc.umich.edu  or  esti@midway.uchicago.edu
214 Beakes St. (home)  330 Packard Rd. (work)  Ann Arbor, MI 48104
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: ablanch@physics.su.OZ.AU (Shonias)
Subject: Re: abortion
Organization: School of Physics, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 08:02:31 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.174100.15160@cs.rose-hulman.edu> lindercs@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU writes:
>[I have deleted a lot for brevity]
  
>...                                             I am trying to understand and
>present both sides of the issue to either party, both pro-life and pro-choice. 

"There is another "right-to-life" issue though, and that is the right of
the parents to life. We have already heard from one person who would
not have the life he has now if abortion had not been an option. You
cannot put a price on the life of the parents anymore than you can on 
that of the child. By removing the parents' right to their life (which
really is what you are doing for a large percentage of cases) you are
inducing bitterness and regret that will inevitably be transferred onto
the child. What "life" does an unloved, uncared-for child have?

This also leads into many other issues, not the least of which is that
of adoption, which, in Australia at least, is so actively discouraged,
that it can cause far more pain and trauma than an abortion, I see easy
adoption as being one real option for a woman (or couple) who don't want
a child, but in Australia there seems to be this insane atttitude that
you are some kind of unfeeling beast to give up your child. What is even
more insane is that a woman will be made to feel even more guilty for
giving a child up for adoption than having an abortion.This is primarily
a result of the belief that there is an irreversible bonding that goes on
during pregnancy. I have at least one counterexample to this claim in
my family, and I DO NOT believe that this bonding is some physical,
inevitable thing. I don't understand why the issues of abortion, adoption
surrogacy, government child support and many other issues are so
religiously separated, and no one ever looks at them all together.
They are inseparable as far as I can see.


>Well, that is it for now, please no flames, but I have no problems with
>discussions or questions.  Heck, anything to help me understand the issue from
>either side can only help to fix the problem that exists today. 

I hope you haven't taken this offensively, it wasn't meant that way.
Oh, and rereading it, all those "you"s should really be replaced by
"society", there was nothing personal intended in it, just my poor
use of the language.

Shonias



--
**************************************************
Any time, any place,
I'm just the fool who puts the smile on your face.
**************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne)
Subject: Re: Mundanity (was Re: Creation and Destruction)
Reply-To: moh2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 04:13:37 GMT

In article <1992Apr5.203542.16482@midway.uchicago.edu> esti@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

>	Snark empathizes, "I got hit with that attitude a little
>earlier-- in high school-- which may have worked out better in some
>ways, but which also had the effect of killing off any hope I might
>have had of being a English major.  In fact, for years, I had a
>distaste for reading 'classics', on general principle.

Kateri smiles apologetically at the rest of the bar..."he does like reading 
Shakespeare out loud...really he does.  He's not as much of an unwashed 
heathen as he appears..."  That said, she walks over to snuggle with snark, 
who she has been missing a lot lately...muttering something about god-damned 
razza-frazzing long-distance relationships!!!...

						 - Kateri


P.S. - Btw, for anybody who loves English literature, a wonderful new book out 
is Pamela Dean's _Tam Lin_  - the main character is the daughter of an English 
major..besides being a good retelling of the legend of Thomas the Rhymer, it is
loaded with references to literary  works (it takes place at a small college),
 and kept making me think...."that sounds wonderful", or, "I've been meaning
to read that".  Lots of fun.







-- 
The autumn leaves are falling like rain.
Although my neighbors are all barbarians,
And you, you are a thousand miles away,
There are always two cups at my table.		 - A T'ang Dynasty poem
From: gailj@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (gail.j.valentine)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Farewell!
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:00:31 GMT
Organization: AT&T

Well, it's been fun...but work calls and cost cutting looms, and...

So, I must unsubscribe.

Best of luck to you all!

Gail Valentine
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne)
Subject: Re: abortion
Reply-To: moh2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 18:59:36 GMT

"I think I've said enough that most people know what my views are...I'm pro-
choice, but as others have said, that does not mean pro-abortion."

"I guess I was concerned that some of the pro-life people might be seeing 
women who have abortions as being heartless...using it as a form of birth 
control, etc.  That sort of comment is probably what sparked off this poem..."

"This is dedicated to all the women (and men) who have had to make one
of the hardest decisions around."

*****

	To A Child

Looking into eyes that might have been,
I see reflected a stream of possibilities...
	Baby laughter, baby tears
		blue eyes, or brown.
			Late-night fairy tales,
		early morning schoolbus.
			Homework, best friends, skinned knees...
				and the schoolbus becomes an old red car,
			heading off to a world of ivy walls,
		books, ideas, dreams, love and despair...

By my vision now is blurred, and I can see no further.
I have not gone further and I cannot see for you.

Oh little might-have-been, can you understand,
	A girl, torn by love and despair, caught in her confusion.
A decision was made; it's too late to go back,
	yet tears stream down forever.
Until I reach up, and wipe them away, to face the future again.

*****

Copyright April 1992 M.A. Mohanraj

-- 
The autumn leaves are falling like rain.
Although my neighbors are all barbarians,
And you, you are a thousand miles away,
There are always two cups at my table.		 - A T'ang Dynasty poem
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: p65331727@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (The Artful Dodger)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: RHPS
Date: 6 Apr 92 14:41:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: skyblu.6APR199207415932
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr5.141541.10721@husc3.harvard.edu>, olson@husc9.Harvard.EDU (Charles Olson) writes...
>In article <1992Apr4.050019.14999@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Barbara Trumpinski) writes:
>|> kitten giggles as large lips float in the air over the dancefloor at
>|> callahans place....
> 
>|> i really need a rocky fix....we were going to go during the chicago
>|> gathering...but encore was too iinviting and the weather was too nasty....
>|> 
>|> come ON, everybody...'it's just a jump to the left, and a step to the
>|> right.... let's do the time warp again."
>|> 
>|> kitten has transformed and is wearing a black corset and with a garter
>|> belt and net stockings...her normally un-madeup face is covered with
>|> purplish eye shadow and lipstick so blood red it is almost black...and
>|> 3 inch black pointy toed spike heeled joan crawford f*ck me pumps....
>|> 
>|> "where is the rice! where is the toast! where are the virgins....."
>|> 
>|> (sorry folks....it's been a very long week)
>|> 
>|> remember, don't dream it--be it."
> 
>Castellan jumps up and lines up behind Kitten, also in corset and spike heels 
>(how do people wear these things on a daily basis?! OUCH!).  Fortunately, this
>being VR, it doesn't look nearly as silly on him as it would in RL.
>"As you might guess, I'm also in need of a Rocky fix.  Last I saw it was at
>Arisia back in January, and found that RHPS is improved by seeing it whilst
>three sheets to the wind. 

	"God damn it Michaelangelo, I told you to paint the CELING, not
the pool!"

>"Put your hand on your [tits] hips [or somebody else's] and bring your knees
>in tight..."
> 

	"put your hands on your hips [YOUR OWN HIPS]...."

The Artful Dodger P65331727@CCIT.Arizona.Edu
"Socrates was a famous Greek teacher who went arround giving people advice.
They killed him."
	-Anonymous history student
Xref: sparky alt.callahans:5290 rec.games.mud:4731
From: IK00053@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (The Judean Peoples' Front)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans,rec.games.mud
Subject: HoloMUCK
Date: 10 Apr 92 03:30:31 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System

For something a little different, a little sane, a getaway from the
rigors of life, and a good time (albeit it slightly twisted), try
HoloMUCK, the MUCK with a little something for everyone.

HoloMUCK is at collatz.rh.uchicago.edu (128.135.120.46) port 5757
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne)
Subject: Re: All mind and no heart?
Reply-To: moh2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 15:34:19 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.191453.29819@cco.caltech.edu> lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:

>"Consider the following:  If you used your idea of `shared pain lessened' in the
>Place the way you've implied you use it in your relationship with your
>girlfriend, you'd end up spending a lot of your time out in the alley with a
>lump on your head.  Fast Eddy carries his blackjack for a good reason.  Shared
>pain is lessened ONLY IF THE PERSON EXPERIENCING THE PAIN FREELY CHOOSES TO
>SHARE IT.  When dealing with a painful subject, it frequently does NOT help to
>keep coming back to the subject.  Having discussed it once, it's often
>necessary to leave the topic alone, sometimes for quite a long while, before
>it's productive to discuss it again.  Bringing it up again prematurely only
>aggravates the situation.  

Kateri cheers, "Well said!"

	"When someone you loves is in pain, your first instinct is to try to 
heal them, of course.  With our culture the way it is, the general rule seems
to be to try to talk it out.  While that can work, and you probably should 
make the offer, if they say they don't want to talk about it, listen to them!
Let it drop until *they* bring it up again."

Kateri looks a bit grim..

	"Speaking for myself, there are some events in my own life that I don't
want to discuss.  Not now, possibly not ever.  It just brings back old pain
that I'd rather leave behind.  Some of my well-meaning, wonderful friends have
trouble understanding this, and I have to keep telling them that, no, I don't
'want to talk about it'.  It gets tiring.  For me at least, it's better just
to let it be."

	"I don't know if this is the same situation as with Judie - I wish you
luck.  You might consider trying it for a while though."

					 - Kateri

-- 
The autumn leaves are falling like rain.
Although my neighbors are all barbarians,
And you, you are a thousand miles away,
There are always two cups at my table.		 - A T'ang Dynasty poem
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: ib56@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
Subject: Re: Caffeine to the max
Organization: University of North Texas
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 00:38:50 GMT

In article <92092.133747AXM113@psuvm.psu.edu>,
 AXM113@psuvm.psu.edu (Abner Mintz) writes:
> The Poet Man puts his particulars on the registering board (is that like
> putting your cards on the table?):
> 
[particulars deleted]
> 
> Tizrak whispers to Mike, and Mike smiles, then pours a drink and sets it down
> in front of the Poet Man.
> 
> "Coffee, ginseng tea, ginger ale, and Dr. Pepper, gift of Tizrak in honor of
> the day!"
> 
> Tizrak smiles, wondering if the poet man will actually try to drink it, and
> what a concoction should be named.  A Black Resurrection?  Molten Java? No,
> that would have alchohol in it ... maybe kalhua in place of the coffee ...

The Poet Man frowns curiously for a moment, then takes a cautious sip of the
strange concoction.  He seems to ponder the taste for a moment, then eagerly
chugs the entire glass down.  Seconds later, he falls to the floor with a
crash, as if struck down by some violent force.
Some friendly patrons carry the Poet into the back room.  Some hours later,
when he finally revives, and his new friends have told him the whole story, he
christens this unusually highly concentrated caffeine delight "Ecstasy
Stretcher".  He does not manage to sleep for an entire month.


--Poet Man
 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"The writer is the engineer of the human soul."    |onathan Van Matre     |  |
			--Joseph Stalin         |__|  ib56@vaxb.acs.unt.ed|__| 
 __                                                
|__)    |\/|     "A symphony should be like the world; it should contain
|   OET |  |AN         everything."     --Gustav Mahler    
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: hollombe@soldev.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Jacob's Ladder
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:34:26 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <1992Apr7.225853.15372@samba.oit.unc.edu> Elizabeth.Mccoy@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Elizabeth Mccoy) writes:
}In article <ktqqvaINNsbl@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> test@peregrine.Sun.COM (Carole Parker) writes:
}>In article <1992Mar31.002833.9585@samba.oit.unc.edu> Elizabeth.Mccoy@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Elizabeth Mccoy) writes:
}>>
}>>... a "jacob's ladder" is a design
}>>that one can form from a sufficiently long loop of string laced upon the
}>>fingers. ...
}>>
}>I thought that was called a "cat's cradle"?
}
}No, I'm pretty sure that a cats-cradle is something entirely different
}(though still made with string).

}There's a game where you pass a bit of string back and forth with a
}friend, but there's no *way* I can describe that!
}
}Anyway, I'd always thought that cats-cradles were something else that I
}never learned how to do. :-(

The Polymath addresses the spot occupied by T'Kee over a week ago.

"According to my maternal grandmother, who taught me, the game you
describe is called Cat's Cradle and the Jacob's Ladder pattern is one
stage in it.  I think, if it's done properly, the sequence of patterns is
circular, but I've never been able to get that far with it.

"Anyway, it seems you did learn at least some of it.  You just didn't know
you knew."

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405 {rutgers|pyramid|philabs|psivax}!ttidca!hollombe
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: metal on rock
From: razer@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu (The Artful Dodger)
Date: 16 APR 92 16:32:00    
Reply-To: razer@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Big Bright Green Pleasure Machines, Inc.
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-a4  

	Ignatz has led an expedition up the side of a rock face.
Shortly after Nick CHopper joins him at the top, they are startled to
hear a loud *WHOPA*WHOPA*WHOPA* sound coming from the other side.
	A moment later, an MH-53 rounds the corner, a tytanic
helicopter commonly known as a "Sea Dragon".
	The cargo bay door is open, and those with sharp eyes can 
determine that the wildly grinning figure standing there in
a flight suit and helmet is, in fact, Arty.
	He speaks into his helmet mike, and the sea dragon manouvers
close to the edge of the rock.  Arty hops out, goes to where the
expeditioneers are standing.
	"I know you guys were planning on Rapelling down from here, but I'd
like to introduce you to something else."
	Reboarding the helicopter with any volunteers, Arty speaks into
his mic again.
	The Chopper pulls away from the cliff, and Arty passes out
swim fins and masks.
	While his friends put on the equipment, Arty glances out
the door.
	"Okay, we're almost to the drop zone.  Get ready."  He hands each 
of them a rope, like the one they used climbing the rock, glances out
again, grins, clips his beaner to the rope - and jumps out the door.
	His guests look at each other in horror!  It must be sixty
feet to the ocean surface, and the chopper's still moving at twenty 
knots!
	Arty speeds down the line, arms crossed, head down, feet pointed.
the ocean surface comes up to meet him, and he slams into it, laughing.

	"Man, I needed that.  I haven't done a sea-drop in MONTHS!"


The Artful Dodger P65331727@CCIT.Arizona.Edu|Razer@Hacks.Arizona.EDU
"Can you imagine us years from today, sharing a park bench quietly?
  How terribly strange to be seventy!"
		-Paul Simon & Art Garfunkle "Old Friends" _Bookends_
Newsgroups: alt.callahans