HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: curt@access.digex.com (curt williams)
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
Subject: Re: Interesting Hypnosis Talk
Date: 26 Jan 1993 10:39:11 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <512@heimdall.sdrc.com> crgruen@sony1.sdrc.com (robert gruen) writes:
>will not be able to see Joe, he will be invisible" (Joe is the third person).
>behind Joe (who is invisible) and puts an object in his hand, he then asks 
>what it is

This is an experiment with negative visual hallucinations.  A positive
visual hallucination is seeing something which isn't there.  I've
experimented with both.

I've never had a case of visual negative hallucination similar to the
case described (.i.e. able to see something hidden behind the Invisible
man  :-)

I have hypnotised a suitably deep subject and "removed" an object from
the visual field (e.g. subject doesn't see a stool in front of them).
If you then ask them to walk across the room, they should trip over the
stool. Invariably, they step around or over the stool.  This is not a
test I routinely do :-) since I think making a person fall on their
face is a rude way to bring them out of hypnosis; consequently this may
be a case of proof by selected instances.
From: rich@cygnus.cygnus.com (K. Richard Pixley)
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
Subject: Re: Interesting Hypnosis Talk
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:46:06 GMT
Reply-To: rich@cygnus.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: Cygnus Support - Palo Alto, CA +1 415 903 1400
In-reply-to: curt@access.digex.com's message of 21 Jan 93 02:08:27 GMT

In article <1jl0irINNdf2@mirror.digex.com> curt@access.digex.com (curt
williams) writes:

   1) How many readers of alt.hypnosis believe that a person can be
   compelled to do something against their will, or something they
   would not ordinarily be willing to do, because of post hypnotic
   suggestion?

This question doesn't fit in my world view.

a) "do something against their will".  If I will something strong
enough, it happens.  If it happens, or I do it, then I willed it.
This is my definition of will.  Can my will be changed?  Certainly.

b) "ordinarily be willing to do".  Life is extraordinary.  The
ordinary state of my body is probably something resembling a puddle of
saltwater.  It makes no sense to say that I would or would not do any
particular action "ordinarily".  I take some actions at some times.
What *could* happen or *might* happen is irrelevant in the face of
what *does* happen.  Hence, conditionals of the form "what would I do
if" are a schrodinger's cat situation.  Neither of us will really know
until I'm presented with that situation.

c) I don't believe that there is any such thing as a "post hypnotic
suggestion".  Certainly there are ways to change consious state.  I'm
changing yours as you read this message.  Some of those also change
attitudes.  In turn, some of those change attitudes about attitudes,
etc, etc.

If I might second guess you, perhaps a more interesting answer for you
is that I believe any attitudes or behaviours can be changed.
Hypnotic techniques (whose existence we could debate) are one vehicle
for creating these changes.

   2) How many readers of alt.hypnosis believe that a person under
   hypnosis or following a post hypnotic suggestion can fool a
   polygraph?

See above.
From: clgs17@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
Subject: Re: I want to learn
Date: 22 Jan 93 20:47:20 GMT
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster

In article <1993Jan21.130516.2520@ucbeh.san.uc.edu>, novotndj@ucbeh.san.uc.edu writes:
> Does anyone know of any teach yourself to hypnotise others books?
> 
> thanks
> 
> Don

What are your motives?
From: dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com (David Barton)
Subject: Re: Interesting Hypnosis Talk
Organization: Intermetrics Inc., Washington Division, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:37:05 GMT

In article <1jl0irINNdf2@mirror.digex.com> curt@access.digex.com (curt
williams) writes:

   But first, an informal poll.

   1) How many readers of alt.hypnosis believe that a person can be
   compelled to do something against their will, or something they
   would not ordinarily be willing to do, because of post hypnotic
   suggestion?

The question hangs on what a person would be "ordinarily" willing to
do.  I have brought up the Milgram experiment several times here, and
I think that it is still a good one to look at with respect to this
whole question.  If ordinary people are willing to administer shocks
to a stranger until he is apparantly dead, then I think there is
nothing that a person can be "compelled" to do by post-hypnotic
suggestion (I do not see this suggestion as "compelling") that he or
she would not do given an appropriate situation.

Milton Erickson's investigation of the antisocial uses of hypnosis is
interesting.  He came accross several examples of ordinary but
frowned-upon acts (violating the privacy of a friend, small thefts,
etc.) that he attempted to induce without a "safety net" that a person
would commit when in a normal state which they categorically refused
to commit in a trance, after considerable persuasion and hypnotic
changing of the scene.

   2) How many readers of alt.hypnosis believe that a person under
   hypnosis or following a post hypnotic suggestion can fool a
   polygraph?

People in a normal state can fool a polygraph.  I have no doubt that
someone in hypnosis could also fool a polygraph.

					Dave Barton
					dlb@hudson.wash.inmet.com
From: clgs17@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
Subject: Re: Is hidden hypnosis possible?
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:18:57 GMT
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster

In article <DLB.93Jan26102730@fanny.wash.inmet.com>, dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com (David Barton) writes:
> I missed the original article in this thread.  I must therefore
> respond to a partial quote.
> 
>    In article <1k0gfkINNfbs@rs2.hrz.th-darmstadt.de>,
>    raab@vlsi.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Andreas Raab) writes: 
>    |> Is it possible to induce a hypnotic state in a person such that the
>    |> person doesn't realize what happens?
> 
>    [ stuff deleted ]
> 
>    |> Well, can it be that A hypnotized B? I know that eye contact over
>    |> extended periods of time can induce trace, but what then? There
>    |> was a lot of body language involved, and A used his voice very
>    |> much. It reminded me at the wizard Saruman a character from "The
>    |> Lord of the Rings" who bewitched people with his voice.
>    |> m really interested in the subject, it's fasconating to watch
>    |> people interact. This "hidden hypnosis" technique seems to be
>    |> used very frequent, especially in advertising, in particular in
>    |> TV. 
>    |> 	Andreas
> 
> Covert hypnotic inductions are certainly possible.  Erickson has
> published many examples, as have many others.  Erickson even
> recommends it in the case where a given client is clearly ambivalent,
> and the ambivalence results in considerable resistance.
> 
> Not having seen the original article, I cannot comment on whether a
> trance was induced in this particular case.  Hypnosis is not an
> "either-or" thing; being hypnotized is not a binary variable.  The
> answer to your question is probably, "To an extent".
> 
> 					Dave Barton
> 					dlb@hudson.wash.inmet.com


It depends on how 'A' obtained the information from 'B':

1. 'A' may have used a method of indirect questioning, clever, but
   not hypnosis.
2. 'A' may have applied 'B' with acceptable suggestions causing 'B'
   to divulge the necessary info'. No trance induction, but is sometimes
   called 'waking hypnosis' - a la Bernheim and Coue.
3. 'A' could have induced trance in 'B' thus increasing suggestibility of 'B'.
   However, 'A' would still have to be careful in how he extracted the
   information from 'B'. The hypnosis part, ie trance induction, may
   include a few factors:-
   - Monotony/soothing/authoritarian tinge in voice of 'A'
   - 'A's use of confusing/contradictory/wearing statements almost
     bullying 'B' into trance. This is a classic method of hypnotic induction,
     not very pleasant or ethical though
   - Rapport/trust 'B' to 'A' (applies to 2. as well)
   - Eye contact/fascination/attention of 'B' to 'A' (applies to 2. as well)
   - 'A' envoking emotion in 'B' whilst applying the suggestions (applies to
     2. as well)

I don't think post hypnotic amnesia would apply here, no trance deepening
present.

.................... A scottish perspective.

.................... Just a few comments from your friendly I.A.H. member.
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
From: gpmenos@firestone.Princeton.EDU (Gerard Philippe Menos)
Subject: SUBJECTS NEEDED FOR PSYCH. STUDY
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: gpmenos@firestone.Princeton.EDU (Gerard Philippe Menos)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 22:57:01 GMT

I am posting the following announcement for my sister.  She is looking  
for subjects, primarily in the New York City area (the closer to  
Manhattan, the better) or in the vicinty of Princeton, NJ, to  
participate as subjects in a study on the psychology of the postpartum  
period.

At this point, my sister is in greatest need of subjects for the  
control group --females between 18 to 40 years of age, with no  
children, who are not presently pregnant.  If you can participate or  
if you know people who can participate, please read on.  The telephone  
nunber to call is listed below.

Thanks,
Phil Menos

--------------------------------------------------------------
                      SUBJECTS NEEDED

I AM A Ph.D. CANDIDATE IN CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGY, CONDUCTING A
STUDY OF THE POSTPARTUM PERIOD, A LONG NEGLECTED AREA OF
RESEARCH.

                IF YOU ARE 18-40, FEMALE AND

O    EITHER RECENTLY GAVE BIRTH TO A CHILD (WITHIN THE LAST
     NINE MONTHS)

O    OR DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN AND ARE NOT CURRENTLY PREGNANT,

YOU ARE ELIGIBLE TO PARTICIPATE IN A STUDY THAT WILL TAKE 15
MINUTES OF YOUR TlME WITH ME.  AFTER THIS BRIEF MEETING, YOU
WILL BE GIVEN A PACKET OF PSYCHOLOGICAL INVENTORIES THAT WILL
TAKE 40 MINUTES TO 1 1/2 HOURS TO COMPLETE (DEPENDING ON
WHETHER YOU CHOOSE TO DO THE ABBREVIATED VERSION OR NOT), AT
YOUR LEISURE.  THE PACKET WILL BE SELF-ADDRESSED AND STAMPED.
WHEN YOU ARE DONE, JUST PUT IT INTO THE MAILBOX.

AFTER THE REBULTS HAVE BEEN ANALYZED, IF YOU WISH, I WILL
CALL YOU TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE ABOUT
THE 5TUDY AND TO GIVE YOU FEEDBACK REGARDING YDUR TYPICAL
MODES OF FUNCTIONING ALONG VARIOUS DIMENSIONS OF PERSONALITY,
YOUR TYPICAL SHIFTS IN PERSONALITY ORGANIZATION UNDER STRESS,
YOUR PERSONAL STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES AND OTHER PATTERNS OF
PSYCHOLOGICAL FUNCTIONING SUGGESTED BY YOUR RESPONSES.

THE STUDY IS BEING CONDUCTED ALONG AMERICAN PSYCHOLOGICAL
ASSOCIATION RESEARCH GUIDELINES.  ALL DATA IS STRICTLY
CONFIDENTIAL.  YOU WILL BE IDENTIFIED WITH A CODE NUMBER.
INFORMATION LINKING YOU WITH THIS CODE NUMBER WILL BE
DESTROYED ONCE WE HAVE HAD OUR TELEPHONE FEEDBACK SESSION.

IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN PARTICIPATING OR GETTING MORE
INFORMATION, PLEASE CALL:

                           Micka
                        (212) 666-2174.

              PLEASE PASS THIS ON TO A FRIEND.

                        THANK YOU.

--------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
G. Philippe Menos [gpmenos@firestone.princeton.edu]
Systems Administrator,   Princeton University Libraries
voice:  609-258-5183     fax:  609-258-5571
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
From: alexand@lt7.cs.rhbnc.ac.uk (Alexander Forth)
Subject: Books on: Re: Is hidden hypnosis possible? 
Organization: Royal Holloway, University of London
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:24:22 GMT
Reply-To: alexand@lt7.cs.rhbnc.ac.uk (Alexander Forth)
X-Posted-From: lt7.cs.rhbnc.ac.uk
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu


Hi,
Although a Computer Science student, I have a particular interest in this 
area also.  Has anyone read anything that was informative on the techniques 
used for covert hypnotic induction? 

All suggestions very much appreciated,

Alex Forth.

alexand@cs.rhbnc.ac.uk
From: mayer@owlnet.rice.edu (Christopher Francis Mayer)
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
Subject: Re: Interesting Hypnosis Talk
Date: 21 Jan 93 20:33:19 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Rice University

In article <512@heimdall.sdrc.com>, crgruen@sony1.sdrc.com (robert gruen) writes:
|> 
|> I have an interesting hypnosis idea that I read about but I belive that others 
|> may be interested in trying to verify or idsprove it.  
|> 
|> The story goes:  Say three people are sitting aroiund and one of them happens 
|> to be a hypnotist.  The hypnotist (we'll call him John) hypnotizes the subject  
|> (we'll call him Mike), and says "Mike, you are in a trance and from now on you 
|> will not be able to see Joe, he will be invisible" (Joe is the third person).
|> Now, Mike is hypnotized and he stares straight forward the hypnotist then tells 
|> the observer (Joe) to stand in front of Mike.  The hypnotist asks Mike if he 
|> can see Joe.  Mike replys that he cannot.  The hypnotist then proceeds to stand
|> behind Joe (who is invisible) and puts an object in his hand, he then asks 
|> Mike what object he is holding.  Mike immediately identfies the object that is 
|> being held up.  
|> 
|> In the book that I read "The Holographic Universe" the subject is able to 
|> identify a wathc that is held behind a person.  Apparently the person is 
|> "invisible",  if this is correct what does this say about reality as we know 
|> it?  If this is incorrect (and I have no reason to belive it is) then it 
|> was a good idea anyway!?! 
|> 

	Sounds pretty good, but the whole thing just doesn't make sense.  We
pervceive things physically from the light around us entering our eyes. 
Hypnosis may alter our perception so that our mind refuses to believe an
object is there, but it cannot change the physical reality that there IS a
solid object blocking our line of sight.  The light simply cannot reach our
eyes even if we don't believe there's anything there.  Now metephysical
believers can argue against this by saying that our "spirit" can look beyond
the normal laws of physics and hypnosis can help us get deeper into touch with
our "spirit", but I somehow doubt this is the case.  But if these stories are
true, then there are other senses that we have over looked...however, if you
believe this, I encourage further, first-hand research and experimentation.

Just another $.02

Peace and Happiness...

--C
From: novotndj@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
Subject: I want to learn
Date: 21 Jan 93 13:05:16 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati

Does anyone know of any teach yourself to hypnotise others books?

thanks

Don
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
From: dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com (David Barton)
Subject: Re: Is hidden hypnosis possible?
Organization: Intermetrics Inc., Washington Division, USA
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:27:30 GMT

I missed the original article in this thread.  I must therefore
respond to a partial quote.

   In article <1k0gfkINNfbs@rs2.hrz.th-darmstadt.de>,
   raab@vlsi.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Andreas Raab) writes: 
   |> Is it possible to induce a hypnotic state in a person such that the
   |> person doesn't realize what happens?

   [ stuff deleted ]

   |> Well, can it be that A hypnotized B? I know that eye contact over
   |> extended periods of time can induce trace, but what then? There
   |> was a lot of body language involved, and A used his voice very
   |> much. It reminded me at the wizard Saruman a character from "The
   |> Lord of the Rings" who bewitched people with his voice.
   |> m really interested in the subject, it's fasconating to watch
   |> people interact. This "hidden hypnosis" technique seems to be
   |> used very frequent, especially in advertising, in particular in
   |> TV. 
   |> 	Andreas

Covert hypnotic inductions are certainly possible.  Erickson has
published many examples, as have many others.  Erickson even
recommends it in the case where a given client is clearly ambivalent,
and the ambivalence results in considerable resistance.

Not having seen the original article, I cannot comment on whether a
trance was induced in this particular case.  Hypnosis is not an
"either-or" thing; being hypnotized is not a binary variable.  The
answer to your question is probably, "To an extent".

					Dave Barton
					dlb@hudson.wash.inmet.com
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
From: houle@nmt.edu (Paul Houle)
Subject: Re: Interesting Hypnosis Talk
Organization: New Mexico Tech
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 02:25:13 GMT

In article <C1813K.F1L@rice.edu> mayer@owlnet.rice.edu (Christopher Francis Mayer) writes:

>
>	Sounds pretty good, but the whole thing just doesn't make sense.  We
>pervceive things physically from the light around us entering our eyes. 
>Hypnosis may alter our perception so that our mind refuses to believe an
>object is there, but it cannot change the physical reality that there IS a
>solid object blocking our line of sight.  The light simply cannot reach our
>eyes even if we don't believe there's anything there.  Now metephysical
>believers can argue against this by saying that our "spirit" can look beyond
>the normal laws of physics and hypnosis can help us get deeper into touch with
>our "spirit", but I somehow doubt this is the case.  But if these stories are
>true, then there are other senses that we have over looked...however, if you
>believe this, I encourage further, first-hand research and experimentation.

        No,  the really metaphysical believers believe that there really isn't
any objective reality.  That is,  if you can remove something entirely from
your world view,  then it's gone entirely for you.  Of course this opens a
whole metaphysical can of worms,  but I have met people who believe things
like this.  Explaining human interactions is usually tricky for this kind of
theory,  but plenty of people such as Ruth Montgomery have tried.

	Remember that we have a fairly good-sized blind spot in our perceptual
field that has probably gone entirely unnoticed by billions of human beings.
The brain uses representational codings that make it easy for it to interpolate
reasonable data into that space so we only notice our blind spot by trying
really hard.  Close your left eye and focus your right eye on the 'x' below
and move your head towards your monitor so you can see this

                           x             o
 
        (Yes,  I just tried it myself.  With my right eye exactly 'over' the
x,  I had to be about an index-finger length away from my 14" monitor to make
the 'o' go away)  Experiments show that the interpolation that the brain does
is actually rather sophisticated,  so that it will continue a line that is
drawn through the blind spot,  etc.  Anyway,  because the brain uses a
internal representaion that is complex -- it separates out forms and colors
and brightness and different submodalities,  it should be very possible for it
to do a good job of filling in a plausable background after deleting the data
of a particular person or whatever you are trying to make invisible.  Trance
logic will prevent a person from recognizing any inconsistencies.  A person
might even use any data from memory to make an excellent guess about what is
being held behind an invisible person.  If there was anything like ESP (or
even heightened nonverbal communications) that could also help fill in the
gap.

                                         
--
From: raab@vlsi.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Andreas Raab)
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
Subject: Is hidden hypnosis possible?
Date: 25 Jan 1993 10:47:16 GMT
Organization: Integrierte Schaltungen und Systeme, FB Informatik, TH Darmstadt
Reply-To: raab@vlsi.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Andreas Raab)
NNTP-Posting-Host: vlsi_sun3.vlsi.informatik.th-darmstadt.de
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Is it possible to induce a hypnotic state in a person such that the
person doesn't realize what happens?

Recently, I observed a conversation between two friends, let's
call them A and B. They sat face to face in a bistro and talked
about an information that A wanted from B, but B wasn't willing
to give the information away.

I didn't participate in this part of the conversation, so I had
a chance to observe what was going on between A and B. A
had good rapport with B and kept asking questions in order to
make B tell what he didn't want to tell.

Finally, after half an hour or so, B had told everything and was
in a completely puzzeled state of mind. Even though I only
observed and listened to them, I felt also very puzzled and
distorted afterwards.

Later, when I was alone at home, I realized that some kind of
magic was involved here, but I didn't know exactly what it was.
Yes, I did ask A what he did and how he did it, but he was not
able to tell me exactly what happened, it seems to have a lot to
do with intuition.

Well, can it be that A hypnotized B? I know that eye contact over
extended periods of time can induce trace, but what then? There
was a lot of body language involved, and A used his voice very
much. It reminded me at the wizard Saruman a character from "The
Lord of the Rings" who bewitched people with his voice.

I am really interested in the subject, it's fasconating to watch
people interact. This "hidden hypnosis" technique seems to be
used very frequent, especially in advertising, in particular in
TV. 

--

	Andreas
Newsgroups: alt.culture.alaska
From: richman@reepicheep.gcn.uoknor.edu (Mike Richman)
Subject: need temperature information
Summary: want climate information
Originator: news@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 04:12:27 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: CIMMS/The University of Oklahoma, Norman
Followup-To: alt.culture.alaska


Can anyone tell me what the average high and low temperatures are in
late May and early June in Fairbanks, Anchorage and Juneau?  Also,
when does the summer rainy season start?  Thanks.
--
   __o   Mike Richman                        !CIMMS/The University of Oklahoma
 _`\<,_  richman@reepicheep.gcn.uoknor.edu   !100 East Boyd, Room 1110
(*)/ (*) 405-325-3460 (office) 325-7614 (fax)!Norman, OK  73019-0628  USA
From: craig@phenix.cc.uregina.ca (Craig Knelsen)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.alaska
Subject: Re: need temperature information
Date: 28 Jan 93 07:07:54 GMT
Reply-To: craig@phenix.cc.uregina.ca (Craig Knelsen)
Distribution: na
Organization: Does it matter?

In article <C1G10s.5xw@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> richman@reepicheep.gcn.uoknor.edu (Mike Richman) writes:
>
>Can anyone tell me what the average high and low temperatures are in
>late May and early June in Fairbanks, Anchorage and Juneau?  Also,
>when does the summer rainy season start?  Thanks.

According to the AAA/CAA tourbook (from records of the U.S. National
Weather Service):


		May	June	Jan
Anchorage	12/3	17/6	- 6/-16
Fairbanks	15/2	22/8	-22/-30
Juneau		12/3	16/7	- 1/- 7

and for the curious (from Canadian Gov't Travel Bureau)
Regina		19/3	23/8	-11/-22

All temps in Celsius (-17C = 0F; 0C = 32F; 10C = 50F; 21C = 70F)

Don't know about your last question (rainy season).
-- 

Craig Knelsen		craig@phenix.cc.uregina.ca
			Craig_Knelsen@f1096.n140.z1.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: alt.culture.alaska
From: shaffer@achilles.ctd.anl.gov (Michael A. Shaffer)
Subject: Re: Wolves
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:34:32 GMT

In article <93021.174024U49654@uicvm.uic.edu>, Susan M. Singler <U49654@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
|> Is there any update on the shooting of Alaskan Wolves?
|> The last info I read said that the order to shoot them had been
|> 'stayed'?  Is this still true?
|> 
|> Thanks, Sue Singler.

Sorry for my ignorance... Is this a special hunt or a conservation
department culling or what?

				mike
			the outsider...
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:40:24 CST
From: Susan M. Singler <U49654@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.culture.alaska
Subject: Wolves

Is there any update on the shooting of Alaskan Wolves?
The last info I read said that the order to shoot them had been
'stayed'?  Is this still true?

Thanks, Sue Singler.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.alaska