HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lungtt@gus8.ecn.purdue.edu (Terence T. Lung)
Subject: Re: Brahms violin concerto (summary)
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 05:11:55 GMT

>In article <1992Nov18.161245.11594@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>, velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde) writes...
>>Here is a summary of opinions expressed on the Brahms violin concerto
>>performances.  I include only positive opinions. Trashed were: 
>>Perlman/Giulini, Salerno-Sonnenberg, Mutter-Karajan, Nigel (Kennedy?).
>>Especially praised were: Ginette Neveu, Heifetz, Grumiaux.
>> 
>>Which brings a question: is there any DDD version (aside from the 
>>spurious Neveu recording) that measures up to these giants? This is
>>for those of us who came to age in the CD age, and haven't the fervor
>>to sift through the noise of a re-mastered 78 for that divine sound.
>> 
>>Which brings another question: why do netters prefer the older versions?
>>Are there no good violinists around anymore, or is there some built-in
>>bias? For example, were those the first versions you heard?

There are plenty of good violinists still.  But I think it is difficult
to catch a good performance with a good recording.  e.g.  Three years ago,
I caught Sabrina Berger, who was studying at Juilliard with what's her name, 
performing the Brahms concerto live with a fairly decent community orchestra 
(New River Valley of Blacksburg, VA).  I recall that she did the Joachim 
cadenzas.  I considered it a wonderful performance, easily better than possibly
all of the trashed CD recordings!  Unfortunately, the only recordings 
of that performance are probably of boot-leg quality.  It was also in a
third-rate performance hall.  :(  I think these kind of great performances
come too unpredictably overall though.

Does anyone know what's become of Ms Berger?  Is she still performing?

Terence

ps
I had a vote in for Heifetz too; but I guess it got overlooked.
I'm a bit turned off by Heifetz' general style though.  Why did
he have to race through absolutely everything he played?  If it's
good, the longer the better!
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dclason@dante.nmsu.edu (Dennis Clason)
Subject: Re: Tuba
Summary: Whaddaya call more than one tenor tuba?
Organization: New Mexico State University, Las Cruces, NM
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:14:52 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.140130.17535@husc3.harvard.edu> elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies) writes:
>
>Question: what's the proper plural of "euphonium", for those rare
>occasions when you need to deal with more than one of them?
>
>Disclaimer: I do not play the Tuba.
>

Euphonia?  Naw, sounds like a girl I knew in High School. . .

Euphoniums?  No, not greek enough for the pedants . . .

Band directors usually call them


Baritones



And they ought to know, because they're the only folks
who have to deal with them in plural on a regular basis

:-), for the humor impaired.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwh@visual.com (Rob Holzel)
Subject: Re: Brahms
Organization: Visual
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 19:20:13 GMT


>>BTW, have you played or sit thru the complete production of
>>Wagner's RING before?  I think you may change your mind 
>>about Brahms once you have done that.
>>
>>d. wong

If I read this correctly, you're saying that "not liking" Wagner
makes one more receptive to Brahms?   No way -- their styles are
quite different, but so are Wagner's and Mahler's, for that matter.

>Well, I am afraid that I *have* listened to the complete Ring Cycle
>and I think it's absolutely fantastic and in comparison, just about 
>everything I've ever heard by Brahms is wishy-washy claptrap... but
>I got some good suggestions about his music and I'll try and find
>some of the pieces and see if I like them. 

>Kyle.

Wagner was such an original, if you use this standard in judging
the work of his contemporaries, then maybe *nobody* would earn
approval.  :-)

I think the trick is to listen to Brahms for Brahms, and forget about
comparing him to anybody.  If his music floats your boat, then great.
If not, fine -- but don't credit Wagner or Meyerbeer or anybody
else.  :-)

Rob
From: "hilary miller" <hilary.miller@execnet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: tchaikovsky's piano c
Date: 18 Nov 92 07:02:26 EST
Reply-To: "hilary miller" <hilary.miller@execnet.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Executive Networks Information


Egras, in a message to All on 11-16-92 at 2:27pm, said:

ES>| While we're asking about best Tchaikovsky recordings, would anyone
   |like to recommend a favorite recording of his Piano Concerto No. 1 in B
   |_______________________________________________________________________

          I still kinda like Van Cliburn and Kyril Kondrashin with the
          Moscow State Orchestra.  The Rubinstein recording you have,
          which I also have, is not dynamic enough for my taste.


   L A
 I    R        Hilary B. Miller of Greenwich, Connecticut
  H/\Y         CIS: 76040,1743
    
---
  DeLuxe/386 1.25 #11645  ASCII stupid question - get a stupid ANSI
--
Executive Network Information System  (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: eng tat tan <etan@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Recommnedations please
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:35:38 GMT

Could someone please recommend good recordings for the following :

1) Haydn's "The Creation"
2) Dvorak's Violin Concerto Op.53
3) Gilber&Sullivan's "The Mikado"
4) Mendelssohn's "A Midsummer Night's Dream"

I already have the following choral pieces. I'm sure I've left out some great
ones and since I'm going for a shopping spree, could someone recommend some
choral music to add to my collection. Thanks a lot!

i) Beethoven's Missa Solemnis
ii)  "         Mass in C Minor
iii) Mozart's  Coronation Mass
iv)    "       The Great Mass
v)     "       Requiem
vi) Bach's     Magnificat
vii) Poulenc's Mass in G Major
viii) Handel's Messiah
viv) Rutter's  Gloria     (Any comments on this piece?)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas Tan                           Internet Address : etan@ucs.indiana.edu
Indiana University                   Bitnet Address   : etan@iubacs
Bloomington
School of Business - Computer Info Sys
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: MOZART HELP PLEASE!
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 19:21:49 GMT

In article <1992Nov22.165456.222@news.columbia.edu> gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes:
>In article <7536.382.uupcb@travel.com> brad.dekoter@travel.com (Brad Dekoter)  writes:
>> 
>>1. What year did Mozart die? 
>
>1791

I though the whole world knew this after last year...
>
>>2. What is the largest selling classical recording in history? 
>
>I believe it is Switched-On Bach

I would have thought it might well be something by Caruso, but who can
tell.

>
>>3. Who wrote the "Elvira Madigan" theme? 
>
>I don't know the theme, so I can't help you here.

Oh Gabe, you must be about the only  person here who doesn't know that
the film "Elvira Madigan"  (1968, directed  by Bo  Widerberg) used the
second movement  of Mozart's    C major  piano  concerto,  K.467  as a
leitmotif. What a sheltered life you must have led!

Now, shall   I  disillusion you  further  by revealing what  Rossini's
William Tell overture used to be used for? Naaaah....

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
From: jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu (John R. Dooley)
Subject: Re: Respighi's Fountains of Rome
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 23 Nov 92 01:03:29 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.175745.58952@qut.edu.au> bellmann@qut.edu.au writes:
>  In Respighi's score of "Fountains of Rome" the two harps are marked
>"ad libitum". I grew up with the Toscanini version and got to consider
>the harps as absolutely essential, specially in the last section. It was
>very disappointing for me to get Dutoit's CD and find no harps at all.
>Next I tried Ozawa, just in case he had a different idea but missed again.
>Does anybody know of a CD version of the tryptic that includes the harps?
>

London has a budget CD with Istvan Kerstyk (sp?) and the London Symphony
Orchestra doing the Pines and the Fountains of Rome, as well as The
Birds.  The performances are great and the Fountains include harps.

John D.


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rpt@edscom.demon.co.uk (Richard Tomlinson)
Subject: Re: New Haydn symphony CDs from Hanover Band, LA Chamber Ensemble
Organization: EDS-Scicon, Milton Keynes, UK
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 12:58:06 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.223240.4933@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> rtut@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Raymond Tuttle) writes:
>
>It is instructive to compare the Dorian disc with the two most recent
>releases in Hyperion's Haydn Edition with The Hanover Band (Roy
>Goodman, director).   Disc CDA 66528 contains Symphonies Nos. 101
>("The Clock") and 102, plus the overture to "Windsor Castle"; CDA 66529
>contains Symphonies Nos. 9 through 12. 
>
>The Hyperion Haydn Edition has been historically correct, intelligently
>presented and frankly, often rather dull.  Some of the symphonies in
>this series, especially the earlier ones, have turned out well in an
>understated, even precious sort of way.  However, when we get to the
>later ones, it is hard to hear how important and prophetic these works
>were in these tinkly little performances.  Symphonies Nos. 101 and 102
>are badly underpowered here, and it is difficult to imagine anyone being
>jolted by Haydn's amazing originality when it is presented in these pale
>pastel colors. 
>

I can't believe you've listened to the same CD as me. Their performance of 
Symphony 101 is superb. The CD was recommended by BBC Music Magazine so I
bought it. I was not disappointed.

-- 
Richard Tomlinson, EDS Scicon, Wavendon Tower, Milton Keynes, UK MK17 8LX
rpt@edscom.demon.co.uk   Tel:  +44 908 284539          Amateur radio: G4TGJ
All opinions expressed are mine, and are not necessarily those of my employer.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: mozart/handel - messiah
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 05:20:03 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.020346.3619@msc.cornell.edu> tan@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (David Tan,Box 219 Baker Lab,54810,2720402) writes:
>From article <1992Nov21.225358.7271@Princeton.EDU>, by roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig):
>> In article <1992Nov21.210951.18576@msc.cornell.edu> tan@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (David Tan,Box 219 Baker Lab,54810,2720402) writes:
>>>From article <92325.172728IO21145@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, by <IO21145@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>:
>>>> I was wondering if anyone has ever seen references to a
>>>> revison of the "Messiah" by W.A. Mozart?

>>>It's really a "reorchestration."  The orchestral parts have been augmented,
>>>most obviously by adding clarinets (which did not, of course, exist in Handel's
>>>time) and French Horns. 

>> This does not, of course, explain Handel's Overture for Two Clarinets
>> and Horn, or the aria he wrote with clarinet obbligato in one of his
>> operas.  Clarinets were invented around 1700.

>Thank you for the correction.  Clearly I hadn't realized that Handel had
>written for the clarinet.  I was under the impression that the clarinet
>before Mozart's time had serious playability problems (weak notes, to wit)
>and was not widely used (certainly it was not used in "Messiah".)

It still had those problems in Mozart's time; almost all clarinet music
was written with no key sig. or one flat.  (That's also why we have
Bb and A clarinets.)

But, yes, it wasn't used much in orchestras before about 1780; there
are exceptions such as Handel and Vivaldi.  Part of the problem
was a lack of virtuosi who could produce an acceptable sound on the
instrument.  Handel seems to have come into contact with a pair 
of clarinetists in London in ca. 1724, hence the Overture and the
aria in Tamerlano (the Chrysander score gives "Clarini," but trumpets
can't play those lines); And Mozart, of course, wrote for the brothers
Stadler.

Messiah is scored quite sparsely by Handel's standards.  Little for the 
trumpets to do; no flutes or bassoons, though one could certainly add
a bassoon or two to some basslines for timbreal variety.  I think it's
the smallest band of any of the oratorios.

Roger

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jpc@avdms8.msfc.nasa.gov (J. Porter Clark)
Subject: Re: RVW Tuba Concerto
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: 20 Nov 92 01:52:29 GMT

mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael J Valinis) writes:

>Concerning Ralph Vaughan Williams Tuba Concerto, it was recorded at least once
>that I know of, with John Fletcher as soloist with the London Symphony 
>Orchestra, Andre Previn conducting.  It was coupled with Symphony #5 and Three 
>Portraits from The England of Elizabeth.  A very nice album with a good variety
>of RVW works.  Some of you folks may flame Previn, but he does good RVW.  The 
>album, BTW, is on an RCA cassette 6782-4-RG.  I don't know if it's still 
>available or if it's ever been rereleased on CD.  If anyone knows, I'd be 
>interested in hearing....

It has and I have a copy.  It's 6782-2-RG.  Same couplings, ADD, total
time 72:16.  I guess it's still available.
-- 
J. Porter Clark    jpc@avdms8.msfc.nasa.gov or jpc@gaia.msfc.nasa.gov
NASA/MSFC Flight Data Systems Branch

"Why do I have to keep reading these technical manuals?"
				 --Roger Waters
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson)
Subject: Concert Review (was Re: tonality and modern music)
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:09:32 GMT

> alves@calvin.usc.edu (William Alves) writes:
>Absolutely, and I hope that people aren't scared off by impressions formed
>about 20th century music based on just a minority of pieces.
>Personally, I
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>would prefer to hear a work, ANY work, that I haven't heard before, rather
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>than hearing yet another interpretation of the Beethoven seventh 
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Bill Alves

Well, thanks, Bill, I couldnt have thought of a better lead in to the Review
of the Charlottesville/University Symphony Orchestra's performance I saw
this weekend, as it began with a beautiful, tonal, yet quite modern new
piece, and ended with, you guessed it, Beethoven's seventh. (which I have
heard a lot less than the 5th, 6th, or 9th, but that's beside the point).

The first piece was Judith Shatin's Piping the Earth. Ms Shatin is a professor
here at Uva, but this piece was written on a commission from the Bay Area
Women's Philharmonic. It is one of the beautiful, tonal pieces of modern
music that some people have a hard time believing in these days. Kind of hard
to describe, I guess, other than to say that its a one movement piece that
is both accessible and modern. (On a side note, Ms Shatin's next piece is
to be COAL, a piece for chorus,electronic sounds and mountain instruments. Im
a little suspect--Id hate to hear good bluegrass instruments and music
butchered by people playing them too 'classically'. But I guess Ill find out
how it sounds when/if its ever performed)

The next piece was Struass' Till Eulenspiegle. I think this score, for all its
good points, also has some frighteningly dull moments. Some of the string
passages evoked thoughts of made for tv movies more than the antics of
a merry prankster. I think the orchestra may have been a little adrift on
this one too, but then again, I dont know how good I am at judging the
quality of an orchestra.

And finally, Beethoven's seventh. This work was absolutely wonderful. I
guess Beethoven's symphonies are superclassics that I just never get jaded
about. Beethoven is like a beautiful sunny day that also contains a
raging thunderstorm, and the orchestra (which was much smaller for this
piece than for the first two) captured this feeling well. All in all
a good concert, and certainly the most daring program that CUSO will
attempt this year :-(

-Rob
UVa Music lib


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: A Query
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:29:19 GMT

In article <Bxx64F.LCD.1@cs.cmu.edu> acid+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Colby) writes:
>In article <1ec74hINNp7f@bigboote.WPI.EDU> kat@banach.WPI.EDU (Christina Lynne Freeman) writes:
>>I would like to buy my father a CD of "Pictures at an Exhibition"  on it for
>>Christmas.  It is one of his favorites (according to my mother.)  However, I 
>>forgot which composer this piece is by.  Also - does anyone know of a good 
>>recording that they prefer over another?
>
>It's a piano piece by Mussorgsky.  There are various orchestrations
>available.  By far the most popular incarnation is the Ravel orchestration,
>but since you didn't state which incarnation you wanted, I'll take the
>liberty of assuming the original solo piano.
>
>There are a lot of bad versions out there.  The best I've heard is the
>Richter on DG mid-price.  It's mono, though.  The Horowitz is supposed to

The Richter is on Philips, it's from a concert in Sofia, Bulgaria, in
February 1958, and sounds, as Gramophone put it, as if it were
recorded at the far end of an aircraft hangar. But it is a *great*
performance. 

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson)
Subject: Re: Music to calm down by
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 13:46:06 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.084637.27497@alex.com> jon@alex.com (Jonathan Heitler) writes:
>In article <3344@voodoo.UUCP>, das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz) writes:
>|> At work these days, I seem to be in a constant state of stress, and have
>|> been thinking that some soothing music might help greatly.  I love classical
>|> music, but don't have a whole lot of exposure to it.  I would greatly
>|> appreciate recommendations for music that has a calming effect.

>Well what has the most calming effect on me, is the Chaconne from Bach's
>d minor (I think?) partita for solo violin. In fact any of his solo violin
>music is good for relaxing to, particularly if it is played by Josef Suk.

Really? Bach's solo violin stuff is a little too frentic for me to calm
down to. If i really wanted to calm down I usually go with some jazz
anyway, but thats just me. On the classical side, Shostakovich's
string quartets are fairly relaxing. or anything for solo guitar (or
shoud that be solA?) is also very relaxing.
From: ray@thyme.sharebase.com (Ray Gebbie)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Bassoonists?
Date: 16 Nov 92 18:07:27 GMT
Reply-To: ray@thyme.sharebase.com (Ray Gebbie)
Organization: NCR/ShareBase Corporation

In article <1992Nov15.024745.23059@scott.skidmore.edu> awattenb@scott.skidmore.edu (abby wattenberg) writes:
>
>Is there abyone else in the e-mail world who plays the bassoon?  I'd
>really like to hear your thoughts on playing this instrument invented
>sadistic medieval wood gnomes.  Please respond to: 
>                                        awattenb@skidmore.edu 
>I feel very alone in this world where half the population has
>absolutely no idea about music other than rock and the remainder feels
>that they are experts on the orchestra but can not distinguish between
>the oboe and bassoon.  

I would imagine that there are literally THOUSANDS of us bassoonists who read
this newsgroup.  At least there seemed to be that many competing for openings
in the performing groups when I was in college.

I realize that you requested email, but I decided to post so that everyone else
could experience a good bassoon discussion.  Perhaps we could start with a 
good thread on reed making, or a discussion of intonation problems and alter-
nate fingerings.

What?  You have no interest in those things?  Impossible!
   
===:-)/===== (me playing my bassoon and smiling at the same time)

-- 
Ray Gebbie, NCR Corporation, ShareBase Business Unit, Berkeley, California 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hsmoliar+@cs.cmu.edu (Harold Smoliar)
Subject: Re: Pictures at an Exhibition
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 15:30:01 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.223721.1789@beaver.cs.washington.edu> dci@cs.washington.edu (Donald Chinn) writes:
>In article <1992Nov20.175201.22019@honte.uleth.ca> an405_arca@hg.uleth.ca writes:
>>Pictures at an Exhibition was composed by Russian composer Modest 
>>Mussorgsky.  There are to versions of this work- the original 
>>version was written for piano.  I believe that it was Rimsky-Korsakov
>>who orchestrated "Pictures" for orchestra.  Unfortunately, I do not know
>>of any good recordings and would also like to know what people suggest,
>>as I am also looking for a recording of this.
>
>No doubt there will be millions of posts with this small correction:
>it was Ravel who arranged "Pictures" for orchestra.

It was Ravel who arranged the most famous version.  However, as I posted
several weeks ago when Slatkin was here, there are many other arrangements
that just are not performed as often.  A few examples:  Stokowski, Caillet,
Gorchakov, Ashkenazy, Wood, Leonardi, Leonard.

Harold Smoliar
English horn, Pittsburgh Symphony
Piano, Symphony Jazz Quartet
hsmoliar@db1.speech.cs.cmu.edu
From: Andrew.Thomas@newcastle.ac.uk (Andrew Thomas)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Opinions on Gardiner's "Die Entfuhrung aus dem Serail" ??
Keywords: Mozart, Gardiner, comments on
Date: 23 Nov 92 17:52:20 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU

Gardiner's latest Mozart Opera recording received faint praise from
Gramophone this month. Can anyone comment on this recording, particularly
with respect to the other front runners (by Boehm, Hogwood.)

Andrew

Email = Andrew.Thomas@ncl.ac.uk         
Phone = +44 91 222 8546	  FAX = +44 91 222 8232
Mail = Department of Computing Science, The University,
	 Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, Great Britain.
From: zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Grabowski)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Bernstein conducts Bruckner, Sibelius, and the "Final Concert"
Date: 15 Nov 92 16:27:12 GMT
Organization: Temple University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

I have to preface this by saving I'm no great fan of Bernstein, but while
we're talking about his Vienna-DG recordings, particularly the live ones,
I'd like to mention his recording of the Beethoven Op. 131 String Quartet for
full string orchestra, from about ten years ago.  Stunning reading, gorgeous,
other-wordly...one of the prizes of my collection.


John
zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: scottus@brahms.udel.edu (Scott Arthu Saracco)
Subject: Does anyone know of any recordings of Victor Sanfrank's "Atlantis"???
Organization: University of Delaware
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:44:10 GMT
From: rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Rob Brooks)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Blomstedt announces 1995 retirement from SF Symphony
Date: 19 Nov 92 22:20:52 GMT
Organization: Swarthmore College

In article <1992Nov18.182731.14066@visual.com>, rwh@visual.com (Rob Holzel)
writes:
> 
> A friend of mine from SF says that Blomstedt will be leaving the SF
> Symphony in 1995.  Insider track on his possible successor:
> Andre Previn.
> 

Andre Previn back in California?  My, that would be surprising news.  I
thought he'd had enough of the place when he left the LA Phil.  Speaking of
Previn, has he been doing much conducting recently?

Rob
(rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu)