HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: 6845400@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Good alternative to SDM is........
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 20:51:49 GMT

A very good alternate, actually a better, magazine to SDM is one called
DISCOVER DIVING, the travel reviews are not always favorable as they are
in SDM. The articles on equipment are also much better than in SDM, they are
more objective. Of course the magazine is not as glitzy/slick as SDM but the
content is much better. There is another magazine, it used to be PACIFIC DIVER,
Rodales or Rondaless that isn't too bad.

Thanks,

Kathy
------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: mac@crchh570.BNR.CA (Michael Campbell)
Subject: Good Alternatives to SDM?
Reply-To: mac@crchh570.BNR.CA (Michael Campbell)
Organization: Bell Northern Research, Richardson
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 18:03:25 GMT

OK, I'll bite.  I'm new to this  group,  and am seeing  some of
the  contributors  slam Skin Diver Magazine  (most recent one I
saw - "Scum  Diver").  I get this  magazine,  and although I'll
admit that the  technical  articles are a bit fluffy, I find it
generally  informative, and a good read.  I particularily  like
the travel related articles.

Can anyone  recommend a better SCUBA  magazine, and explain why
it is better? Please post to this newsgroup.

No flames, please. Sorry if this is a FAQ.

========================================================================
Michael Campbell                  BNR Inc.               Richardson, Tx.
ESN   444-5595                   Dept 2Q35                 75082-4399
(214) 684-5595               "Dunnage Happens"
From: story@sgi.com (David (Duis) Story)
Subject: Re: Boyancy control with drysuits
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 01:00:03 GMT

In article <p185eco@fido.asd.sgi.com> leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones) writes:
>In article <p0amsok@twilight.wpd.sgi.com> story@sgi.com (David (Duis) Story) writes:
>>
>>		Ave velocity 
>>		during last 4fsw  <======  Key fact
>>Device		of ascent (in fsw/min)
>>--------	-------------
>>Over-the-shoulder	254.7
>                 [HUMONGOUS NUMBERS DELETED]
>
>Dave - 
>I don't doubt that I have some pretty spectacular velocities in the last 
>FOUR FEET of an ascent.  I'll admit it - at the end of a dive, I'm pretty
>buoyant at 4' with an empty BC.  However, is this really a big concern?

These studies were done from 9'4" to 0'.  If you ascended from below
10' to the surface at over 200 fpm, I suggest that it would be a big
concern.  

>* It seems that the danger of a barotrauma is essentially nil from 4'.

Not so.  Your lungs can handle about a 10% overfill (kinda like steel
tanks :) -- which translates to about 3.6fsw before barotrauma with
full, closed lungs.  4fsw can kill you!  :(

>  Also, there seems to be some empirical evidence that most of us 
>  almost unconciously exhale continuously during that last second or two.

There's certainly pressure building up, but remember that at 200+fpm,
you've only fractions of a second to remember to exhale.  If you have
to cough or swallow at this point in the ascent, you're in trouble.

>* How much impact on the decompression schedule is taking place in the 
>  change from 1.12 ATM to 1 ATM?   I mean, if you were just "beamed" from
>  4' to 0', how much would you be affected?  (Honest question - I just don't
>  know).

Not much, but detectable bubbles have been seen in saturation ascents
from as little as 9fsw.  Bends at 16fsw.  These are saturation
exposures, but that gives you a hint.  I can find the actual reference
if you want.

Remember that the question I was originally answering was "what's the
terminal velocity of an unladen african swallow ascending out of
control in scuba gear?"  I didn't quite answer it, but put it into a
ballpark figure.  If you were ascending from deeper, wearing an
(expanding) wetsuit and kicking up, as the original poster was, it
might be a lot faster.

>* My Monitor II doesn't beep in the last four feet.  Has it already turned
>  off, or am I slower than I thought, or what?

You're not slower, I think it may have already turned off.  Anyone?

Cheers,

David Story		           	NAUI AI Z9588, PADI DM 43922, EMT
story@bent.wpd.sgi.com		 Opinions my own, and subject to dispute.
From: mac@crchh570.BNR.CA (Michael Campbell)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Good Alternatives to SDM?
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:03:25 GMT
Reply-To: mac@crchh570.BNR.CA (Michael Campbell)
Organization: Bell Northern Research, Richardson

OK, I'll bite.  I'm new to this  group,  and am seeing  some of
the  contributors  slam Skin Diver Magazine  (most recent one I
saw - "Scum  Diver").  I get this  magazine,  and although I'll
admit that the  technical  articles are a bit fluffy, I find it
generally  informative, and a good read.  I particularily  like
the travel related articles.

Can anyone  recommend a better SCUBA  magazine, and explain why
it is better? Please post to this newsgroup.

No flames, please. Sorry if this is a FAQ.

========================================================================
Michael Campbell                  BNR Inc.               Richardson, Tx.
ESN   444-5595                   Dept 2Q35                 75082-4399
(214) 684-5595               "Dunnage Happens"
From: story@sgi.com (David (Duis) Story)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Information about advanced deep diving course wanted
Date: 2 Sep 92 22:40:21 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <19859@fritz.filenet.com> scotth@fritz.filenet.com (Scott Hopson) writes:
>
>[...] Some dive shops will
>offer deep dive training but they do it without the Blessing of Naui/Padi/
>YMCA or the others. The 130 feet limit is not an arbitrary limit created
>by these people. 

130fsw is definitely an arbitrary limit.  It was chosen because folks
thought a limit needed to be chosen, and because beyond that depth
most tables allow less than 10 minutes no-stop bottom time.  But
130fsw *IS* an arbitrary limit.

>Most people are not aware of the potential dangers that
>exist below 130 feet. 

This may be equally true of the dangers below 1fsw as well, but I see
your point.

>If you get BENT once you can never dive again. 

Not true.  Several of my friends have been bent and are still diving.

>That's assuming you live the first time. 

Sure, but I think you're exaggerating greatly.

>Once you've been BENT your chances of 
>getting bent again, even in shallow waters is greatly increased. 

Again, not true.  This is simply anecdotal.  I am not aware of any
scientific evidence to support this hypothesis. 

>When doing deep and extended diving you need
>to seek professional training and be very aware of the dangers involved.

Now here I agree with you.  Do not overextend yourself, work up to
challenges, and get appropriate training, knowledge, and equipment.  
You wouldn't run a marathon without training up to it, would you?

>Scott Hopson   (scotth@filenet.com)

Cheers,

David Story		           	NAUI AI Z9588, PADI DM 43922, EMT
story@bent.wpd.sgi.com		 Opinions my own, and subject to dispute.
From: jab@buffett.Eng.Sun.COM (Jim Biasella)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Information Request - Belize
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:32:35 GMT
Reply-To: jab@buffett.Eng.Sun.COM (Jim Biasella)
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: buffett

Hello,

I am looking for information on Good dive resorts and especially
Good live aboards in the Belize area.  A group of friends are
planning a trip next year and we would like your input to help plan
the trip.

We are also planning a week of hiking/touring into the Mayan ruins
and would greatly appreciate information on this also.


                                Thanks!!

                                Jim Biasella
                                jab@Eng.Sun.COM
From: wall@hel4.brl.mil (Jeff Wall)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: ?diuretics and diving
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:06:31 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Human Engineering Lab  Aberdeen, MD

In article <1992Sep1.045004.10756@ultb.isc.rit.edu> mstacc@ultb.isc.rit.edu
(M.S. Tremblay) writes:
>In article <1992Aug28.193609.2345@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com> peterson@hpl.hp.com
(Chris >Peterson) writes:
>>With the dry suit, I've also found far less need for a nap after
>>diving all morning.  A strong urge to nap is especially inconvenient
>>while driving home on the freeway!
>>
>
>Aside from being warm and comfortable under water, this has been one of
>the biggest advantages of the dry suit.  I can dive all day and still
>feel like doing something afterwards.  Its nice not to be wiped out
>after just a few dives.

What causes this effect??  I have heard from people who have dove on Nitrox
that they feel much less tired after a dive.  They attribute that to the
increased oxygen in the body as well as the reduced nitrogen.  What causes you
to feel less tired after diving in a dry suit??  You are on air right??

Jeff Wall
wall@hel4.brl.mil
From: 73467.2574@CompuServe.COM (Andy Schmidt)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: DECO'92 Hahn's Tables
Date: 27 Aug 92 23:16:24 GMT

Finally got a couple of sets of the new 1992 German tables developed by Prof.
Dr. Hahn (Scubapro DC11 computer). There are sealevel and altitude tables. In
general, the tables are VERY conservative on the first dive and you are
consistently doing decompression stops for typical dive profiles.

Since you are often doing mandantory stops (where the US tables give you
straight ascends) the table is VERY liberal on the surface intervals. After
only a few hours you have very little RNT - but remember, you're total no stop
time is ALWAYS very short to begin with.

 Feet/Meter  Time  NAVY   NAUI   PADI  Buehlm  DECO92  DECO 92 comment

  60   18    NDL    60     55     55     65      44    60 for 55 = 6 min stop
  60   18     80   7@10   7@10   n/a    6@10    16@10
  80   24    NDL    40     35     30     27      23    80 for 30 = 4 min @ 10'
 100   30    NDL    25     22     20     17      14    100 for 20 = 5 min @
10'

Repetitive dives: 100 for 14, 2h SIT, 80 for 20, 3h SIT, 60 for 40

  NAVY: 2 min @ 10' on last dive
  NAUI: 7 min @ 10' on last dive
  PADI: no decompression necessary, within the NDL limits.
  Buehmann: 3 min @ 10' on SECOND dive, within NDL on last dive. Fly: 8 hours
  DECO92: 4 min @ 10' on second dive, 6 min @ 10' on last dive. Fly: 36 hours

Harve, your's are on the way - anyone else wanting a set of laminated tables, I
have a few extra. Reimburse me $14.00 per set.

Andy
From: scotth@felix.filenet.com (Scott Hopson)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Information about advanced deep diving course wanted
Date: 2 Sep 92 01:18:03 GMT
Reply-To: scotth@fritz.filenet.com (Scott Hopson)
Distribution: usa
Organization: FileNet Corp., Costa Mesa, CA

In article <1992Aug30.044120.21177@mdi.gwinnett.com> ddt@mdi.gwinnett.com (Dusit Tansathein) writes:
>Hi
>
>I plan to dive the Wilkes-Barre this year so I would like to get more
>information and recommendation about dive shops that offer advanced deep
>(mixed gas) diving course in terms of quality and pricing.  In addition,
>if anyone on the net has previous diving experience on this wreck, I would
>like to receive some suggestions about equipments, diving, etc..

According to a Naui rep. which I spoke to, none of the Cert. agencies offer
deep dive or mixed gas training. This is considered very dangerous and not
recommended unless you go to a professional school. Some dive shops will
offer deep dive training but they do it without the Blessing of Naui/Padi/
YMCA or the others. The 130 feet limit is not an arbitrary limit created
by these people. Most people are not aware of the potential dangers that
exist below 130 feet. If you get BENT once you can never dive again. That's
assuming you live the first time. Once you've been BENT your chances of 
getting bent again, even in shallow waters is greatly increased. One deep
dive is not worth your life. When doing deep and extended diving you need
to seek professional training and be very aware of the dangers involved.


-- 
Scott Hopson   (scotth@filenet.com)
From: phil@seidel.ucsb.edu (Philip Papadopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: AL 50's wanted
Summary: I'm looking for a pair of 50's
Keywords: Scuba Tank, 50 Cubic feet
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:09:39 GMT
Distribution: usa

Hi,
    I'm looking to purchase a pair of 50 cubic foot tanks with
the usual K-valve.   Anybody out there want to sell their small
tank?

phil
phil@gauss.ece.ucsb.edu
Organization: Senior, Civil Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:23:44 -0400 
From: "Peter A. Simon" <ps3p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Boyancy control with drysuits
	<92238.144457FKK@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>


>I used clevis pins to hold the weights on the BCD so they could be
>removed in a minute or two if necessary.

Too long for my taste!

Peter
NAUI Inst. #1434

Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: kene@sequent.com (Ken Ewing)
Subject: Re: Uncontrolled ascent w/o weightbelt
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 16:48:59 GMT

In article <17m6jfINNcbm@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> cmac@anthrax.EBay.Sun.COM (Chris MacDonald) writes:
>I once had my weightbelt fall off while I was at about fifty feet, and the 
>bottom was about eight feet below me.  By the time I realized what had 
>happened, the bottom was about fifteen feet below, and I was on my way up.
>

I'm also curious to hear people's experiences with this.  I once lost 
my weight belt at 100 feet.  I was right at the bottom, so I got the 
belt back on quickly, but my mind was filled with images of ballooning 
up toward the surface if I had not immediately recovered the belt.  
Later when I thought about the incident, I realized that I wouldn't 
have just immediately soared upward, but could have maintained control 
fairly easily at depth.  However, if I had ascended sans-weightbelt, 
I would have had increasing problems controlling my ascent as I got 
closer to the surface.  

How much control do you really have if you lose your weight belt at depth?  

  Ken Ewing 
  Sequent Computer Systems, Inc. 
  Beaverton, Oregon 
  kene@sequent.com 
  ...!uunet!sequent!kene
From: mango@nova.esd.sgi.com (Eric Manghise)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Information about advanced deep diving course wanted
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:10:38 GMT
Reply-To: mango@nova.esd.sgi.com (Eric Manghise)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA, USA

In article <1992Sep2.190620.19318@mailer.cc.fsu.edu>,
mayne@pipe.cs.fsu.edu (William Mayne) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep2.170103.14706@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com>
peterson@hpl.hp.com (Chris Peterson) writes:
|> >
|> >	NAUI does offer a "deep diving" specialty course and, starting
|> >	this year, a mixed gas specialty course.
|> >...
|> >	The Mixed Gas Diving Specialty course covers ANDI (American 
|> >	Nitrox Diving, Inc.?) Nitrox I and Nitrox II, and the course
|> >	instructor must have successfully completed ANDI's instructor
|> >	course.
|> 
|> Say it ain't so. Calling a nitrox course "mixed gas", while technically
|> correct (even air is mixed gas) goes against standard usage and can
|> only add to confusion and the false idea that nitrox diving is a high
|> tech, advanced, dangerous activity. Why don't they just call it what
|> is, "Nitrox", like ANDI and IAND?

	Well I thought we had been through this argument before. Standard
	usage as defined by who? What book are you going by. Well Nitrox
	diving is an advanced dangerous activity, as much as diving with
	trimix. You can kill yourself with nitrox, I would say that makes
	it a dangerous activity. Nitrox is a mixed gas, oxygen and nitrogen
	so is heliox, helium and oxygen so why dont we call it what it is "Heliox".
	All diving is technically mixed gas, in the circles where I dive nitrox
	is referred to as a mixed gas, and as such the same precautions are
	used as with mixed gas. Ie. they both require special knowledge, special
	tables (yes I know you can use EAD), special equipment to blend the gas,
	and in some cases special oxygen clean regulators. Remember NITROX is
	not just 32/68 and 36/64 blends, you can custom blend it from 21/79 to
	50/50 and beyond in special cases. I think yes we should view nitrox as
	a mixed gas, becuase that is exactly what you are doing, blending two gases
	together. In the case of trimix its three.

         ______          ______ | Discover the best two thirds of the world...
    _  o(_||___)________/___    | Eric "mango" Manghise
  O(_)(       o  ______/    \   | (mango@esd.sgi.com)    1-415-390-1588
*______/------o-'            \  | PADI DM #51370  NACD #1263   ANDI #2807
From: FKK@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: emergency gear carried on a dive
Date: 27 Aug 92 23:29:14 GMT
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

In response to a posting made recently someone commented that they
already had a lot of stuff on their BCD.  Let's discuss what people
carry with them.

I have a large Sea Quest ADVi BCD.  Along with an octopus I have a
small sharp knife on one shoulder, a 1 C cell strobe light on the
other shoulder, a Dive Alert on the inflator hose as well as a whistle.

I my pockets I carry a CPR mask, emergency response slate, a scuba tuba
a 30 sec smoke bomb, 3 signal flares and a signal mirror, and a float
marker.

It sounds like a lot but the pockets of my BCD are large and there is
some room left over.

My reasons for all this?  Since I am a PADI divemaster I sometimes help
with classes, which explains some of it. I also have a 12' inflatable
so I like to have some of this stuff when out with just one or two
other people.  On the boat I carry a freon horn, more flares and smoke,
a parachute flair and a cellular phone where service is available.  I plan
to get a marine radio someday.

Of course, none of this will replace safe diving practices and I have never
needed any of this stuff in seven years, but , who knows one day I will
or someone else nearby will and it might make a difference.

What other opinions and practices are out there?
From: egaines@bermuda.triangle.sgi.com (Ed Gaines)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Uncontrolled ascent w/o weightbelt
Date: 31 Aug 92 18:25:34 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <1992Aug31.164859.15168@sequent.com>, kene@sequent.com (Ken Ewing) writes:

|> I'm also curious to hear people's experiences with this.  I once lost 
|> my weight belt at 100 feet.  I was right at the bottom, so I got the 
|> belt back on quickly, but my mind was filled with images of ballooning 
|> up toward the surface if I had not immediately recovered the belt.  
|> Later when I thought about the incident, I realized that I wouldn't 
|> have just immediately soared upward, but could have maintained control 
|> fairly easily at depth.  However, if I had ascended sans-weightbelt, 
|> I would have had increasing problems controlling my ascent as I got 
|> closer to the surface.  
|> 
|> How much control do you really have if you lose your weight belt at depth?  
|> 
Fellow I know used to tell a story about a friend who was doing some really 
deep ( > 180 ft ) diving when he lost his weight belt.  He bobbed and bent, 
and he's paraplegic today. 
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: crossman@isvax.lmsc.lockheed.com
Subject: Re: Mtn View area dive shop?
Organization: LOCKHEED MISSILES & SPACE CO.
Distribution: ba
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 18:38:43 GMT


In article <l9mpqbINNn2j@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM>, dmk@noho.Eng.Sun.COM (David Kahn) writes:
>  >>>>> Note: "ba" distribution <<<<<<
> 
> I need a recomendation for a Dive shop in the Mountain View area.
> (or anywhere reasonably near Mountain View.)
> 
> I need some simple equipment (strap for fins, booties, new mask, etc.) for
> a trip to Kauai at the end of Sept.
> 
> Also, I have a rather old BC -- are these serviceable?  Can a dive
> shop check them out?  I think the gas cannister is stuck in the
> threads -- can it be removed?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> -David Kahn (dmk@Eng.Sun.Com)

I recommend Any Water Sports on Saratoga Ave. (1/2 mi W. from 280 exit)
I've bought most of my gear there over several years. Good service/selection.
> 
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: peterson@hpl.hp.com (Chris Peterson)
Subject: Re: DECO'92 Hahn's Tables
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 18:42:35 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, California

In article <920830042750_73467.2574_DHE22-1@CompuServe.COM> 73467.2574@CompuServe.COM (Andy Schmidt) writes:
>
>...Why do American agencies pussyfoot around the term 'decompression stop'
>and 'decompression diving'. If I MANDATE a 'safety stop' in order to 
>bring measurable bubbles down to tolerable counts (doppler testing) - 
>what else is that than a decompression ceiling. The difference lies in
>semantics: A Deco Stop is what is found in the NAVY manual, and a
>mandantory safety stop to reduce DCS risk is everything that's mandated
>by US dive agencies.

	The NAUI tables (which are based on the USN tables), define
	a 'decompression stop' as a stop required by the tables, and
	a 'safety stop' as one not required by the tables.  Thus
	a 'mandatory safety stop' should actually be called a
	required 'decompression stop'.

	Any "pussyfooting" around "decompression diving" probably
	revolves around the increased risk, potential liability, and
	possible litigation.

	...too much litigation (after the fact), and not enough 
	'common sense' (before the fact).
>
>Hahn also has built a heavy penalty into his tables DECO92 for bouncy diving.
>Any short surface interval between two dives carries HEAVY residual nitrogen.
>He factored that in based on latest phase dynamic and microbubble theories.

	This sounds like good common sense (I know that 'common
	sense' is an oxymoron :)
-- 
Chris Peterson                                     Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
                                                    Research Computing Services
                                                              Palo Alto, CA USA 
                                                            peterson@hpl.hp.com
From: emartini@karoshi.Eng.Sun.COM (Edward William Martini)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: So Cal diving 9/10-9/11
Date: 31 Aug 1992 23:43:02 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: karoshi


My brother and I are planning to travel to So Cal on Thursday and Friday of
next week, and we were wondering if anyone knows of any charters or regularly
scheduled trips to either the Channel Islands or Catalina on either day.

Overnight trips would be considered.

Ed Martini
Video and Imaging Products
Sun Microsystems		"...we're only immortal for a limited time."
Mountain View, CA						Neal Peart
Newsgroups: rec.scuba