HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cloister@milton.u.washington.edu (cloister bell)
Subject: update from lisa (of the recent masters degree)
Summary: verbatim text from a letter she mailed me.
Keywords: update lisa
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:12:41 GMT


lisa writes:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I've been back in Lansing for a week now.  So far things aren't going too
badly.  I've been taking care of a bunch of details: health insurance, driver's
license, etc.

I've called Sherri several times and we will meet soon.  I feel I'm ahead in
life and moving beyond this friendship, but I would like to keep in touch with
her.

There are some things that I feel sad and angry about.  Our cat is getting old
+ is sick.  I'd like to take her to the vet + see if she can be helped before
we decide whether to put her to sleep.  But my mother is opposed to this -- she
feels going to the vet would be too traumatic for the cat + she's too old to be
helped.  I might take the cat in by myself.

I feel like I'm breaking a lot of family rules.  I'm being more independent +
daring.  My mom gets very quiet and sometimes critical when I talk about my
upcoming visit to the southwest.  It's unpleasant but her upset feelings are
_her_ issue + I'm not trying to fix her or defend myself.  Well, not too much
anyway -- it's hard not to.

I've found there is prejudice against those who don't have jobs.  I _hate_ it
when I'm applying for something + people ask "What is your occupation?"

I will be signing up with a temp service here though.  That feels right to me.
I don't want to sell my soul to get a job.  Some employers' attitudes seem
dysfunctional to me.  I'm also still looking at the federal government + non
profits.  

I will soon be making reservations for my trip to AZ and NM.  I will be taking
the train.  I feel scared but the more info I get the safer I feel.  I will
probably leave sometime around the last weekend in August + stay for 2-3 weeks.

I don't have e-mail yet.  But feel free to post replies -- I hope to get
someone to mail them.

Lots of e-hugs to those who want them.  Lisa.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

as she says, folks, go ahead and post replies to her.  i have her address and
will mail them off for you.
-- 
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
|tactical nuclear sdi stealth nsafood signature.  | cloister@u.washington.edu |
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz)
Subject: Re: Confronting my mother (LONG)
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 22:02:06 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.211140.12948@unislc.uucp> erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes:
>Nancy Lebovitz (nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu) wrote:
>
>: I don't see that whether the therapist has "altruistic" reasons is especially
>: important. I believe that malice is rare, but it's easy to hurt other people
>
>My point was, if you understand if there was or wasn't malice involved, then you
>can decide how you want to react.  The reaction to a malicious therapist vs.
>one who was just plain *wrong* would be totally different, and I suspect most
>people's reactions would be, too.
>
>: regard for me in order to feel better. No, he isn't some kind of a monster,
>: but I'll be _goddamned_ if I'll let someone like that be my therapist.
>
>I agree, but getting away from that therapist is a separate issue from how
>you deal with it.  Will you seek damamges in a lawsuit?  Will you seek to
>have his license (if he has one) to practice suspended?

No, and no. I don't think that what he did is, or should be actionable. 
Did I imply that I was planning to sue or take any legal action whatso-
ever? I thought I was just saying that people should be cautious about
family therapists. 

So far as motivations are concerned, legally speaking, a person _could_
be prosecuted for something that they did "altruistically" if they still
did damage, though I assume they'd get into less trouble than if they
did it for profit or malice or from negligance. 
 
[Lots of stuff deleted for bandwith]

                            ---Nancy

Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bob@reed.edu (Robert Ankeney)
Subject: Re: please stop
Organization: Reed College, Portland, Oregon
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:47:19 GMT


     I also wanted to post another suggestion from someone else who cuts:

Try writing with a pen, love messages to yourself rather than cutting there.

     This sounded like a nice idea too.

     Take care,
     Robert

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Ankeney                 | "Yield and overcome.                |
...!tektronix!reed!bob         |  Bend and be straight.              |
...!tektronix!bob@reed.EDU     |  Empty and be full."    - Lao Tzu   |
From: tdelaney@penn.Gwinnett.COM (ted delaney)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: tired of the Relkie situation?
Date: 17 Aug 92 02:57:35 GMT

well, I am not sure why I am posting this (maybe to get it off of my chest)
this is my opinion. period.

I have not been able to follow what is going on- it seems to have gotten
Very convoluted....to be honest, I really don't want to know.

I DO know that the repricussions on this area have been HORRENDOUS.
so far we have lost alot.
trust
love
safety
some friends (users who have dropped out)

well, Relkie-
Good Bye.

I am dropping out- can't continue this crap.
I reallize you have issues and situations that I may not be able to decipher,
but between you and this 'psycho kitty' thing, I gotta protect ME.
I will be on the fringe (will continue e-mail and supporting folks)
but Until someone e-mails me otherwise, forget it.
this should be a place OF safety.
NOT accusations and whatever (heck, I can go home for that :-)

have fun.
yes, I am angry. and scared. and gone.
Ted, protecting the friends.
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Subject: Re: Relkie
Reply-To: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 20:05:15 GMT


In a previous article, johnl@gss.com (John Light) says:

>This is not to say that everything she says about Bill Wells or what
>happened is true.  We are evidently going to be told two elephant descriptions
>by two blind people.  Ignore the stories or not, but don't do what often
>happens to abuse victims: "You didn't tell your story right, so you must be
>wrong."

C'mon, she's a kid... Lots of people have said the "doubt her
story..."  and things along that line.  The least we owe eachother
as abuse survivors is to believe the stories of abuse.  I think
we are faced with a unique problem, in that we know both that
were involved in the incident.  But let's either offer support
or keep our noses out of it.  The worst thing you can do is
"doubt" her story.

>
>John Light
>johnl@gss.com
>

-- 
|alwan573@pirates.armstrong.edu   <=== USE THIS ONE!          
|Karla.Alwan@lambada.oit.unc.edu             |
|ng548@dsom_op.pnl.gov                       |
|bu850@cwns16.ins.cwru.edu                   |
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: Gavin.Flower@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Gavin Flower)
Subject: Re: Just a friendly warning...
Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., Victoria Uni. of Wellington, New Zealand.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:37:52 GMT

========================================================================

       Possible spoiler!  -  About subject matter in soc.women

=======================================================================


































In soc.women there are some people who are trying to justify adults
haveing sex with children.  In some cases that they believe it ok for
parents to have sex with their children!  I don't think it appropiate
to crosspost them to asar.  However, some people here, may wish to
refute these claims in that group.  


-- 
Tomorrow's Society                              | flower_g@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
    Depends on                                   ----------------------------
Today's Children  - help us raise them properly! 
*******  These comments have no known correlation with dept. policy!  *******
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: doug@cdc.hp.com (Doug Sojourner)
Subject: Re: please stop
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:23:48 GMT
Reply-To: @cdc.hp.com
Organization: HP California Design Center, Santa Clara, CA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1scd1 PL4

poohbear:

Peace and healing.  (I'd offer hugs, but it sounded like this is not
the time.)

Doug Sojourner
dsojourner@cdc.hp.com
From: cloister@milton.u.washington.edu (cloister bell)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Abuse
Date: 14 Aug 1992 02:31:10 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes:

>Bear Giles (bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU) wrote:

>: This is secondhand, but when my mother learned I was starting to see
>: a psychologist she commented that "they always trace it back to the
>: parents."  (I know I got a lot of discouragement from her directly,
>: but she made that comment to another relative).

>Who *else* are they going to trace it back to other than family members?
>An overwhelming percentage of abuse comes from family members, usually
>immediate family. :(

this is part of one of the things that really bothers me.  that is, those ads
you often see during childrens' programming on t.v. about what you should do if
someone abuses you.  you often hear dialogs like this one (from memory, between
a woman and a puppet-weasel):

woman:  weasel, do you know the difference between good touching and bad
        touching?  
weasel: yeah!  good touching makes you feel good, bad touching is when someone
        touches you somewhere you don't like or in a way that doesn't make you
	feel good.  
woman:  that's right!  and what should you do if someone touches you in a way
        you don't like?
weasel: you should tell someone you trust, like a parent or teacher, and
        they'll make the bad touching stop!
woman:  how about a hug?  is that good touching or bad touching? (*hugs weasel*)
weasel: hugs are good touching, because they make you feel good!  remember
        kids, if someone touches you in a way you don't like, tell a parent or
	teacher and the bad touching will stop!

now, the weasel's first statement is good.  it's a reasonable generalization
phrased in such a way that kids can understand what its meant.  however, i take
great exception to the weasel's second statement, because parents and teachers
are precisely where most child sexual abuse comes from!  it's fine, if you
happen to be one of those few kids who gets abused by a random stranger, and
who happens to have good, responsible parents and teachers.  but i can see far
too easily how most kids who listen to this advice are either going to be in a
quandry (because the parent or teacher they're supposed to trust is the perp)
or are going to set themselves up for more abuse by those same parents or
teachers.  i am in favor of educating kids about sexual abuse, but i am not
very happy with the advice being given by the woman and the weasel because it
is not likely to help the kids who need it most.  they (the tv. producers)
should have thought and researched the issue more before trying something like
this.  saving kids from sexual abuse is too important to screw it up with
half-assed attempts.  you don't get a second chance with stuff like this.
-- 
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
|tactical nuclear sdi stealth nsafood signature.  | cloister@u.washington.edu |
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: Z57N000 <Z57N@UNB.CA>
Subject: Re: Relkie
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:56:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.011905.6532@gss.com> johnl@gss.com (John Light) writes:
>
>This false image is a result of her earlier abuse.  It helped her deal with
>the world until she hit the teen years.  Now it is dragging her down.
>The rest of the world may use that image against her.  We shouldn't.
>
>This is not to say that everything she says about Bill Wells or what
>happened is true.  We are evidently going to be told two elephant descriptions
>by two blind people.  Ignore the stories or not, but don't do what often
>happens to abuse victims: "You didn't tell your story right, so you must be
>wrong."
>
Parts are imagery. Parts are true.
And I don't lie about things like this.

RELKIE

Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1055@twwells.com (m&m)
Subject: Re: please stop
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:10:41 GMT

poohbear writes:
>And for my small triumph:  I have lived through the weekend.  Well, it is
>10:30 Sun night and i will go to sleep soon, so it isn't quite over but I think
>the danger is past.  Thank God it was cloudy here during the full moon,
>even though that doesn't change it it makes it less potent for me.  I lived
>I lived and I didn't go back in the hospital.  Although I am afraid that I
>would have if I had told anyone about my cutting...I went really deep this
>time, and think I probAbly need stitches, but I do not wAnt to tell anyone
>because they will come and take me away.

>I will not get all upset in this post.  I am alive and not in a hospital
>after a weekend, and a weekend with a full moon at that.  I couldn't
>not cut myself, but i did not O.D.  and now I am alive and I even drew
>1 happy picture! 

	Congratulations poohbear, if you would close your eyes and let me
 here is a big warm protective hug.  If that's not safe, just know I am sitting
here and somehow your triumph really touched me.  Its pretty neat :).  

Fare Well
m&m



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Abuse
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:07:08 GMT

Bear Giles (bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU) wrote:

: This is secondhand, but when my mother learned I was starting to see
: a psychologist she commented that "they always trace it back to the
: parents."  (I know I got a lot of discouragement from her directly,
: but she made that comment to another relative).

Who *else* are they going to trace it back to other than family members?
An overwhelming percentage of abuse comes from family members, usually
immediate family. :(
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Confronting my mother (LONG)
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:15:00 GMT

Nancy Lebovitz (nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu) wrote:

: Just one more thought on staying in touch with your original family--
: watch out for "family therapists". In my experience (I've had one for
: a therapist and listened to another regularly on a radio talk show),
: they really want to get people back into their families. They also
: have the awful habit of saying "I'd love it if you....." when they
: want you to do something you don't want to do. It's important to
: remember what they'd "love" is their problem, not yours.

: I just know that I feel more solid and happier when I'm out of touch
: with my parents, and worse when I'm with them. *This* *is* *strongly*
: *true* even if I feel a lot of pain about not wanting to be around 
: them.  (That pain is why that therapist kept trying to get me back
: to my family.) 

: I haven't healed yet in any general sense, but if it seems as though
: someone is trying to drag you (or get you to drag yourself) into
: someone that feels as though it's very bad for you, don't do it! 
:     ^^^ 
:      (I meant to say "something", but it's such a great Freudian
: slip that I don't want to erase it.) 

Don't let someone force (or attempt to manipulate) you into doing something that
you feel isn't good for you, but also remember that the other person sometimes
has very altrustic reasons for doing what they do.  If your therapist didn't
feel that that would be good for you, he/she wouldn't do it.  That might help
you to deal with them on a more rational basis, and not generate as much
anger towards them.  Often, it's not a deliberate attempt to hurt or manipulate.
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
From: anon-1055@twwells.com (m&m)
Subject: A little breathing room
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:13:36 GMT

This is just a small comment & I don't even want any replies on the net.
If you want to reply please send me email.  My account is again working 
correctly.

I wonder if maybe we should just be a little quiter ourselves and give Relkie 
and Prisoner both a chance to express & explore their feelings on these issues.
I have seen dozens of posts trying to interpret what Relkie is saying and why
she is saying it the way she is.  But I have only seen a couple of posts by 
Relkie herself.  IMO she has a wonderfully expressive ability and is emminently 
capable of poignantly expressing herself.  Maybe if we are a little quieter
and don't comment so much she and Prisoner will both feel a little safer 
exploring their feelings.

Just my opinion - If you want to comment please use email

fare-Well
m&m



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From: rbn@ralph.rtpnc.epa.gov (Bob Boyd)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: This group.
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:09:00 GMT
Reply-To: rbn@ralph.rtpnc.epa.gov
Organization: Unisys/EPA

In article <=s0ma1.boserj@netcom.com>, boserj@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser) writes:
>Also, I am not convinced that uncomfortableness and
>the lack of a warm, pleasant, safe environment is a
>good thing.  We often take these things as escapes,
>and the outside is not like that at all..  vacations
>are great, but even babies leave the womb some time.
>Getting shaken up may be a good thing.

Thanks for your comments Jeff!  

I've wondered myself about why it is that I keep coming back to this
group to read and to post.  I'm very sure of some, and also sure that
there may be reasons that I am not clear on.

The ones that I'm sure about are:

1.  To connect with the (dissociated) pain of my past through reading 
     the stories that other people tell;

2.  To tell my story as I connect with my own pain and am able to know
      the truth about how I got to where I am today;

3.  To share insights that help me to change my life script and promote
      the healing that I am made for;

4.  To offer encouragement to others who are also on the path of 
      recovery/discovery to a full life;

5.  To connect with other recovering people and build new acquaintances
     and maybe even friendships (breaking my isolation);      

6.  To ask for and receive support when I am aware that I need it.
--

Bob Boyd
In The Here & Now
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Relkie
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:14:57 GMT

Z57N000 (Z57N@UNB.CA) wrote:

: >This is not to say that everything she says about Bill Wells or what
: >happened is true.  We are evidently going to be told two elephant descriptions
: >by two blind people.  Ignore the stories or not, but don't do what often
: >happens to abuse victims: "You didn't tell your story right, so you must be
: >wrong."
: >
: Parts are imagery. Parts are true.
: And I don't lie about things like this.

But your perceptions of what happened are filtered by your experiences.
It's like saying that blue is black.  Well, yeah, it is - if you happen to
be wearing yellow shooting glasses.  Many, many things in life are relative.

For example, I was involved in an automobile accident recently that claimed
a life.  I have very clear impressions of what happened, but parts of
the physical evidence didn't match up with what I remembered.  Did I lie?
No ... but what I perceived wasn't apparantly entirely accurate.

There is a term for this, but I don't remember what it's called.  Cops
often go through the same thing when involved in stressful situations.
The result is, what is perceived at the time is sometimes contradicted by
other evidence.  Legal problems often arise because of the apparant
irregularities between what the officer perceived and what actually
happened.  Again, this is a well-known psychological effect, and has to do
with the way the mind works under stress.

Of course, what you remember is what's going to affect you, regardless of what
actually happened.
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1159@twwells.com (Kristian)
Subject: Re: Waiter with Phony Accents
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 00:14:08 GMT

I am  disturbed by these exchanges.  I was not reading or posting
here when the previous flame occurred, but these recent exchanges
seem to spell something extremely disturbed, extremely exploitive
or extremely inflammatory.

I began posting through the  anonymous utility (I needed it then)
and trusted it and I continue to do so although I think the issue
is no longer a big deal for  me  and I suppose it's only a matter
of looking up the procedure before I switch  over to posting from
my own e-address.

I  think  that trust and support are an important  part  of  this
forum and I would hate to see people in need  hesitating  to join
in because of unfounded fears.

I  have found  this  forum a useful supplement to my
personal process of healing from childhood sexual abuse.  I would
hate to see it disappear or disintegrate.

What can we do?

"Kristian"



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery