HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dunson@VULCAN.CBA.OHIOU.EDU (M_BRIAN_DUNSON)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Dumb Question about Trees
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:27:41 GMT
Reply-To: dunson@VULCAN.CBA.OHIOU.EDU
Organization: Ohio University, Dept. of MIS, College of Business Administration

In article <1k0lkiINN39c@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, intruder@cats.ucsc.edu (Isaac N. Truder) writes:
>
> MIDDLE DELETED
>
>My own interpretation has been a more generalized one.  The song is
>about problems between people.  There are all kinds of people in the
>world.  Oaks are not inherently "better" or "higher achieving" trees
>than maples.  They're both trees, and they're each fine in their own
>merits.  But in this case, the oaks are overshadowing the maples.  The
>maples want more sunlight.  The oaks don't understand what they're
>griping about.  The maples get all irate, and in the end the only way
>everyone can be happy if by cutting ALL the trees down.  The message is
>that if we can never communicate with one another -- if we never listen,
>if we can never understand the other's point of view, if we can never
>reach a compromise (and this fault applies to BOTH the maples and the
>oaks) then a solution will still be reached -- but almost assuredly one
>that NOBODY benefits from.  I've never seen the oaks as being aggressors
>in this situation.  They're not trying to grow large so that they can
>cut off the sunlight from the maples; they just grow that way.  "They
>can't help it if they like the way they're made."  Nobody is at fault,
>but there's definately a problem, and it doesn't get resolved until the
>whole forest is destroyed, because nobody is communicating.
>-- 
>+------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| Isaac Truder  <intruder@cats.ucsc.edu> | BLADDER CONTROL CENTRAL |
>|      "The more you drive... the less intelligent you are."       |
>+------------------------------------------------------------------+

Well, I've only got one thing to say about the Trees.  LA Riots.  I believe 
that the two are basically synonomous.

It for now...


Brian
From: dtonya@hamp.hampshire.edu
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: all about bootlegs
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:49:58 EDT
Organization: Hampshire College
NNTP-Posting-Host: hamp.hampshire.edu

	I have several of the bootlegs from the RTB tour and heard many others
and found "Atmospheric" (which is the same as "Over Europe" I believe) has the
best sound quality.  Except for the occasional  singing by the bootleggers, it
is difficult to tell that it is an audience recording.  Also, it is one of the
few bootlegs that includes all of the medley and encore.  "Mardi Gras" is not
that bad a bootleg, this audience recording is a more like what you would
expect from a bootleg, phasing between channels, drop outs, and crowd noise.  I
found it very listenable compared to other bootlegs in my collection. 
"Pensecola" sounds the same as "Mardi Gras" and has the same cheap cardboard
packaging, though it does have a great picture of Geddy doing his Paul Bunyon
inpersonation!  "The Fly" has the best packaging of all the RTB boots I've
seen, the sound quality is lesser than "Pensecola" and "Mardi Gras", but is a
beautiful picture disk and great concert photos.  Definitely worth having for
the packaging alone.  Avoid the boot "Bravado"  as the sound quality really
sucks.
	For other tours I have to agree that "La Villa Strangiato" is
fantastic.  It sounds like a regular release except for a peak at about
13khz-15.5khz.   The version of 2112 is the best Rush has ever done IMHO.  In
fact the whole band seems to let loose during this concert and not play as
strictly as they normally do.  Also, the studio bootleg called "Electric
Ladyland" is a must have for fans of early Rush.  THis is the first recordings
made by the band with Neil as their drummer.  They played live for what sounds
like 6 or mabey 8 people in a studio.  
	If anybody would like to get a copy of any of these concerts just
E-Mail  me.  I have a DAT and a Digital Preamp and a really nice Digital Mixer. 
I also have Led Zeppelin, Hendrix, Floyd, Deep Purple, BOC, Sting, Metallica,
and many others.  I'm just in it for the music, not the money.  
	Also, don't send any flames about the immorality of distributing
bootleg copies.  I really don't give a shit.  I just want to give others who
ain't got $30-$60 to buy a boot to get a better sounding copy than the original
for $7-$10.  

BTW, since Neil Peart took another trip to Africa (Nov.), can we expect Mystic
Rythems II?
From: rgrozier@uncc.edu (Richard Rozier)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Digital vs. Analog
Date: 27 Jan 93 02:47:54 GMT
Reply-To: rgrozier@uncc.edu
Organization: University of NC at Charlotte


Digital vs. Analog...
I've been wondering about this alot lately also.  I think a digital 
system is the way to go for all reasons listed previously, plus 
maybe a little more. 

The brain cannot distinguish infinitely many different sounds.  
There is a limit to our ability to differentiate subtle changes in 
the components of sound - frequency and amplitude.  Therefore, 
a reasonable setup for the digital recording of sound (I think it's
~44kHz sampling rate and 16bits of storage) should be adequate 
to record what humans _think _they hear.  Sure that leaves "gaps" 
in the music played back.  But can we notice it?  I don't think so.

There is, however, a slight drawback to CDs that I've noticed.  It 
seems to me that CDs don't have the sound dynamic quality that
albums on vinyl have.  By dynamics, I mean the difference when 
the music on the recording (not when the listener changes the 
volume) goes from very quiet to very loud.  The difference seems 
to be greater on an album, i.e. the albums have more "punch".  
I haven't figured out why - maybe just my imagination.

As for Rush adding "filler" to their newer music, I think they're just
taking advantage of the lack of time restraints on a CD.  Perhaps 
on future releases, they will find even better ways to utilize the
CD format.

Richard Rozier
UNC Charlotte
From: steveso@wpi.WPI.EDU (Steven C Sousa)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: The Pass
Date: 25 Jan 1993 21:36:53 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu

In article <C1FG2L.3v3@csugrad.cs.vt.edu> mwilson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Zaphod Beeblebrox) writes:
>Ever since the release of Presto, The Pass has been a special song to me.  I
>don't think too much arguement could be done over the basic theme of the song,
>but there is one little tid-bit that I'm not fully decisive about.  The final
>line in the Lyrics notes on the CD is:
> 
>       Christ, what have you done?
>
>Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but it has been my personal opinion 
>for some time now that Mr. Peart does not choose his words lightly.  I firmly
>beleive that each and every word in his songs are there for a reason.  Now,
>the word Christ here can have two meanings.  Christ can be used as a simple
>exclamation, or it can be used as a noun.  I've come up with the theory that
>Neil might be trying to blame Christ for starting the suicide thing.  
>The verse previous to the one in question talks about a noble warrior who lost
>the will to fight.  Could this be Jesus Christ who accepted his fate to die and
>did not fight for his freedom or life?

	I believe that Christ in this song is merely used as an exlaimation.
I should admit that I am a Christian, and since Jesus was God, he could have
easily saved his own life at any time. Therefore I believe it must have taken
an incredible will to fight to remain in horrible pain and humiliation on the
cross. The two lines, "Someone set a bad example/made surrender seem all
right" are the only lines where I feel he could possibly be referring to Jesus,
but nowhere in Christianity is Jesus's death referred to as suicide, and no
mainstream Christian religion I have ever heard of has glorified suicide, so I
must conclude that he uses the word Christ for emphasis only. I had never
really considered the other possibility before now, however.

						Steve Sousa
From: jm012b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Jeffrey P. Moon)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: The Pass
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:21:59 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <C1FG2L.3v3@csugrad.cs.vt.edu> mwilson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Zaphod Beeblebrox) writes:

>Ever since the release of Presto, The Pass has been a special song to me.  I
>don't think too much arguement could be done over the basic theme of the song,
>but there is one little tid-bit that I'm not fully decisive about.  The final
>line in the Lyrics notes on the CD is:
> 
>       Christ, what have you done?

>Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but it has been my personal opinion 
>for some time now that Mr. Peart does not choose his words lightly.  I firmly
>beleive that each and every word in his songs are there for a reason.  Now,
>the word Christ here can have two meanings.  Christ can be used as a simple
>exclamation, or it can be used as a noun.  I've come up with the theory that
>Neil might be trying to blame Christ for starting the suicide thing.  
>The verse previous to the one in question talks about a noble warrior who lost
>the will to fight.  Could this be Jesus Christ who accepted his fate to die and
>did not fight for his freedom or life?  I'm not a religious person, nor am I
>an Atheist, so this is question is purely musical in orientation.  I have no
>preferences as to which way to look at the song, I'm simply curious if anyone
>knows or has considered this view as well.

>--  Mike Wilson

Wow, Mike, did you miss the discussion in TNMS that went on almost a month
or two ago. There was a lot of debate on this issue, and although I don't
want to get involved with this, I think you should try to get some of those
back issues. Ask the rush-mgr which ones to grab...
-- 
Jeffrey Moon			* "And the trees are all keep equal,		
University of Rochester		*  By hatchet, ax, and saw..."
New York			*		- Rush, "The Trees"
From: schebel8133@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Midnight Star
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:09:12 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

-Could someone please send me the address for the "Midnight Star"?



        Thanks.





Rob Schebel
schebel8133@iscsvax.uni.edc
"...estin he noesis noeseos noesis." -Aristotle
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Chintan Amin)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: The Pass
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:05:39 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

In article <C1HoMA.Mw4@unccsun.uncc.edu> rgrozier@uncc.edu writes:
>
>>In article <C1FG2L.3v3@csugrad.cs.vt.edu> mwilson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Zaphod Beeblebrox) writes:
>>Actually, the bit that gets me in the song is this.
>
>>All of us do time in the gutters,
>>dreamers turn to look at the cars.
>
>>What have cars got to do with all this?
>
>I have another interpretation.  It's not necessarily the cars that are the important issue
>here, it's whatever is in the street (perhaps motorcycles and trucks, too).  I think the 
>message is: when you're going through some bad times, don't wallow in self-pity.  Look 
>around at what else is available.  In other words, turn your back on the bad times (the 
>gutter) and think about moving forward.
>
>Richard Rozier
>UNC Charlotte
	Smart man, this is my opinion exactly.  While we all do time in the 
gutter, or are in bad periods of our life, the dreamers among us see some 
glimmer of hope, the cars.  Its sort of like a half-full glass.  Thanks...


-- 
Chintan Amin		Internet:  c-amin1@uiuc.edu
The University 		NeXTMail:  cka52397@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu
of Illinois 	  "Do we have to be forgiving at last?  What else can we do?
Urbana   Do we have to say goodbye to the past?  Yes, I guess we do." <N.Peart
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: jcherney@envy.reed.edu (Joel Alexander Cherney)
Subject: Re: Making Memories
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 01:30:59 GMT
Reply-To: jcherney@reed.edu

Karl & writes
> Howard Johnson's Got His Ho-Jo Workin' (fes9s@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU) wrote:
> 
> : Y'know, i just remembered i've always been unclear what Ged sings
> : after "Our memories remind us <and here I'm unsure> made me <something>
> : <end uncertainty> ...last night so bad"  ORQ "Whoooo, yeah, yeah, yeah-
> : yeaaahhh" ;)

> 	I believe the lyric is:
> 		'Our memories remind us
> 		 Maybe road life's not so bad'

"Mabye real life's not so bad."
From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: RTB:  Neurotica
Date: 24 Jan 93 06:49:22 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <C1CHHz.9no@unix.portal.com> rivit@shell.portal.com (Russell Michael VanTassell) writes:

>Just a rather curious thing I noticed while listening to my copy of Roll
>the Bones -- right at the very end of Neurotica, there is another scream
>apparently from Geddy (at least it sure sounds like this).  It sounds
>like "Stop!" or something...

>Can anyone confirm this?

It's "snap", as in a nervous breakdown I presume...


Gregg

-- 
Gregg Jaeger (jaeger@buphy)  Dept. of Physics (and Philosophy), Boston Univ.
"You see, the quantum mechanical description is in terms of knowledge" -Peierls
"One can _not_ put the psi-function... in place of the... thing" -Schroedinger
                   _De gustibus non disputandum_, NOT!              (*
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: khiggins@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ken Higginson)
Subject: Re: Afterimage
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 04:33:49 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.041546.1220@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> jm012b@uhura.
c.rochester.edu (Jeffrey P. Moon) writes:
>Hello, fellow Rushians:
>
>	I had the privilege to get a whole new bunch of Rush tapes (sorry,
>still trying to save up the money to get a CD player) over the Christmas
>break, including p/g. I can't believe I waited so long to get this album
 it
>is probably one of their best ever aside from MP. My favorite song on th
re
>has to be "Afterimage." It is so beautiful composed. I assume Peart is a
ain
>responsible for such lyrics as "Suddenly - you were gone from all the li
es
>you left your mark upon..." and "We ran by the water on the wet summer l
wn
>- I see the footprints..." Not the most inspiring or impressive lyrics e
er
>composed, but it is still a great song to do your coursework by without
>surrendering to... GRACE UNDER PRESSURE. Shit, I can't believe I just sa
d
>that.
>
>	Allright, enough of that. My question is this: is this song discuss
>death or the passage of time and leaving your friends behind? It could b

>easily interpreted as a eulogy for a friend who has passed on to another
>world. Obviously the speaker has very deep and closely-drawn feelings th
t
>he shared with this friend when they were together. However, being a col
ege
>student (a freshman college student at that matter), I have moved on fro

>one life to a completely different one. I still keep contact with some o
 my
>friends back home, but it seems we will end up splitting up and going ou

>separate ways very soon. It kind of makes me sad, and this song seems to
>express my feelings about this change in my life.
>
>	Well, I think I've explained myself. Well, what is the song about
>specifically, in your opinions? Is there something that Geddy or any of 
he
>band members have said regarding the meaning of this work? Am I going ma
 as
>I strain under the pressure at the beginning of the second semester?
>
>	Before I go ballistic, I'll end this... 8^)
> 
>-- 
>Jeffrey Moon			* "And the trees are all keep equal,		
>University of Rochester		*  By hatchet, ax, and saw..."
>New York			*		- Rush, "The Trees" 


In case a billion people haven't responded yet:
 
Afterimage is about a friend of the band's who died before that album came
out..  It's mentioned in their biography "Visions"...
 

Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: fes9s@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Howard Johnson's Got His Ho-Jo Workin')
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: The meaning of "The Trees"
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:27:30 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

it's occurred to me after reading all this discussion that there is
no definitive answer to who "they" is when the law gets passed.
several likely possibiliti, but no _answers_. i just wanted to
add that we ought not to rule out oaks (in addition to the maples)
as the architects of the law--as one _possible interpretation.  
Wouldn't be the first time society has passed a law to spite
itself.  (Doesn't Frank Zappa say something about "the United
States is a nation of laws--badly drafted and randomly enforced...")

to whomever mentioned beavers, ...huh? maybe if yer in as silly
a mood as i get into sometimes...  one thing that's bothered me
is how literally or at least narrow some interpretations of this
song has been.  hey, whatever turns you on is fine, but the
beauty of the trees to me is the allegory's ability to extend
to more levels of interpretation than some other peart lyrics.
politics, sociology (with or without the state),...well, you
can go on and on finding applicable situations.  

for instance...a certain forest known as the former yugoslavia...
(how's that for complexity of analysis?) ;)

don't mind me, i'm just ruminating
frank
--
"I'm shooting pool, Fats.  When I miss--*then* you can shoot."
                               --"Fast Eddie" Felson
"Be sure to leave your underpants with someone you can trust."
                               -- Jethro Tull
From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Dumb Question about Trees
Date: 25 Jan 93 03:56:56 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <1juvndINNfco@pandora.sdsu.edu> misselt@trapper.sdsu.edu.sdsu.edu (Karl &) writes:
>Zaphod Beeblebrox (mwilson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu) wrote:
>: In article <C1C1v7.7n@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Timothy.J.Young@dartmouth.edu (Timothy J. Young) writes:

>:>>        This may be dumb question, but in the Trees,what is Peart
>:>>writing about? Is it about race relations? Is it about Quebec vs.
>:>>English Canada? Is it about liberalism/socialism in general?

I think not. There is nothing which would indicate that race plays any
role unless you think that one race is made to "grab up all the light"!

>:>>I'm not  
>:>>quite clear, though I have a basic handle on it. Also, is Rush becoming
>:>>politically more liberal? Their earlier lyrics seem to often be
>:>>rightist Ayn Rand-derived stuff, whereas in songs like "The Big Money"
>:>>and "Red Tide" Peart seems to be more politically liberal...

>:>It's my *personal* opinion that Peart is talking about race relations in
>:>the trees.  That song has always struck me that way.  Now that you've brought


>   Am I the only one who has never even thought of this particular interpretation
>of 'The Trees'?

No, I never heard of it before joining in Rush computer discussions. 

>  To me it has always been a more individualistic song.  I 
>interpret it to be about absurdity of complete equality (of outcome).  I take the 
>oaks to represent those, who exist in any human society, that accomplish more 
>than their fellows.  This may be through native ability, persverance, effort or 
>even just plain luck.  The ending has always been very chilling to me.  I see a 
>faceless mob turning to the coercive force of government to enforce a kind to 
>conformity/mediocrity:  'Since we can't rise to your level, we'll pass a 
>"Noble Law", and cut you down to ours.'  Hence the hatchet, ax and saw.  


Yes, this is _exactly_ how I see it, not to mention that this
interpretation is far more consistent with Peart's general views.



Gregg



-- 
Gregg Jaeger (jaeger@buphy)  Dept. of Physics (and Philosophy), Boston Univ.
"You see, the quantum mechanical description is in terms of knowledge" -Peierls
"One can _not_ put the psi-function... in place of the... thing" -Schroedinger
                   _De gustibus non disputandum_, NOT!              (*
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: gimper@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stuart Miyasato)
Subject: Re: Question on Lifeson's Gear
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 17:59:43 GMT

In article <C17rs9.M0A@vcd.hp.com> cpethick@hp-vcd.vcd.hp.com (Christopher M. Pethick) writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.064157.7515@midway.uchicago.edu> 
>kamartin@quads.uchicago.edu (Kai Anthony Martin) writes:
>> Anyway, what is a Taurus pedal?  Is it a special stomp-box or
>> effects processor?  What sound does it make?  Is there anywhere one could
>> buy such a thing?  Thanks a lot; I've been wondering about these things 
>> for a while...
>
>The taurus pedal was made by Moog and was essentially a very limited 
>synthesizer that you played with your feet.  It was fairly large and heavy 
>and had about a one to one and a half octave range.  (It's been a while 
>since I've seen one of these beasts.)  I was blown away the first time I 
>saw Geddy play bass, sing, and play the synth line with his feet all at 
>the same time.  This was on the Hemispheres tour.  
>
>I think that when MIDI became more prevalent, the taurus pedals were 
>dropped in favor of something more versatile.  I'm pretty sure they were 
>still using them on the Permanent Waves tour but I can't remember if they 
>used them on the Moving Pictures tour.

They were actually using Taurus pedals all the way through the p/g tour.
Here's what Geddy said about them in a 4/86 interview with _Guitar Player_
magazine:

-----

>At one time you had a set of Taurus pedals wired into an Oberheim synthesizer.

Right.  That was my version of MIDI [laughs].  I had MIDI years ago.  I
was able to control all the Oberheim stuff from my Taurus pedals, but I
had that system dismantled this year.

-----

In a different interview (_Keyboard_ magazine, 9/84) it was mentioned that
the band used *four* sets of Taurus pedals for the p/g tour.  Two for Geddy
(one under the PPG synth, one at the free-standing mike) and two for Alex
(one to control an Oberheim OB-Xa, one to trigger different samples).

Amazing, the advancement of MIDI in recent years, no?  :-)

>Chris

-- Stuart  (gimper@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: jtkung@netcom.com (Joseph T. Kung)
Subject: Re: The meaning of "The Trees"
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 21:33:16 GMT

In article <108333@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:
>
>The relevant lyrics are:
>
>So the maples formed a union
>And demanded equal rights.
>"These oaks are just too greedy;
>We will make them give us light."
>Now there's no more oak oppression,
>For they passed a noble law,
>And the trees are all kept equal
>By hatchet, axe, and saw.
>
>
>"They" clearly refers to the maples here.
>
>
>
>Gregg
>

Interpreted this way, you would think that the maples passed this law,
even though they were oppressed -- not a likely event. And how do they
(the maples) keep the trees equal with hatchet, axe, and saw --
inherently man-made items? The line says that ALL trees are kept
equal, and you could interpret it as man coming in and making the
trees equal -- by leveling all the trees. Surely, an axe is used to
level a tree, not to trim it so that all trees are the same height.
Making an appropriate analogy, perhaps humans must learn to live with
each other and accept our differences -- or be truly equal by
destroying ourselves with our own stupidity and greed.


- Joe

Newsgroups: alt.music.rush