HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: degeratu@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu (Alexandru Degeratu)
Subject: Re: rferl
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:32:00 GMT

   I break for the first time the silence in this group, to say "thanks" to
Mihai Sirbu for his effort to post as quickly as possible the romanian extracts
of the rfe/rl reports. I find them very useful and very handy. 
   But there is one more reason why I decided "to talk". Since last September,
when I subscribed, I guess is the first time when somebody in the group 
suggests something shouldn't be posted anymore. I think we should avoid doing 
this, unless there is enough evidence from followups that some subjects or 
approaches are clearly rejected by the group. 
   We are  obviously very diverse persons, with different interests; one
should admit from the moment he or she subscribes many of the articles 
aren't going to be "interesting". That's why the header "subject" was invented.
   It's just a personal opinion; please don't use it as ground for polemics!
   Have a nice 1993!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
From: vohaul@spock.uucp (Razvan Surdulescu)
Subject: Romanian connection ? Screwed ?
Organization: Choate Rosemary Hall
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 17:13:08 GMT

Hi.
I have a problem connecting to @pi-bucuresti.th-darmstadt.de.

Today I received a message from a firend there , but I cannot mail him back
for some reason.

Here is a transcript of one of the error messages that I get when the mail
is returned :

cannot receive file via forwarding from non public directory
uux failed , code 12
554 <ifa@pi-bucuresti.th-darmstadt.de> ... unknown mailer error 12

The adress that I sent the message to is

	ifa@pi-bucuresti.th-darmstadt.de

I am not sure if the userid is valid , but I think it should be since I
found it in the header of the mail I received.

I would really appreciate if anybody could help me with this problem 
(either offer a sollution to the error message I got or tell me if there are
any other ways to send mail there)

My adress is vohaul@choate.edu

Any help would be highly appreciated.
Thanx.


-- 
  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
From: msirbu@next5.cs.umr.edu (Mihai Sirbu)
Subject: Moldova/Romania News from RFE/RL, 4 jan 1993
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:28:29 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri-Rolla, Missouri's Technological University

To subscribe to the RFE/RL daily bulletin send e-mail to     
		LISTSERV@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU
with a line
		SUB RFERL-L firstname lastname
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
RFE/RL Daily Report                       No. 1, 4 January 1993

Energy,  Water  Shortages in Romania. Hard winter conditions have
affected Romania's limited energy resources. Romanian TV announced
announced over the weekend  that  gas 
deliveries  for  the  industry  had  to be
drastically  reduced  in  order  to  cover
private  needs.  Crude  reserves  are also
said  to  be  limited,  and the government
admitted  at  its 30 December meeting that
financial    problems  are  hampering  oil
imports.   In  some  urban  areas  central
heating  has  ceased  altogether.  Hardest
hit  was  Suceava,  where thousands shiver
in    unheated  apartments  following  the
four-day  closure of a local heating plant
after  an  explosion  on  30  December. In
another    development,   new  prices  for
  gasoline  go  into  effect  on  4 January.
  Last   month  the  government  decided  to
  reduce  prices  but  also  to  end  a dual
  system    allowing  motorists  to  buy  40
  liters  of  gasoline  each  month for less
  than    half  the  free-market  price.  In
  addition  to  the fuel problems, Bucharest
  has  now been hit by a serious shortage of
  water  for  domestic  use.    Dan Ionescu,
  RFE/RL, Inc./Romania

--
The RFE/RL Daily Report is produced by the RFE/RL Research
Institute (a division of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, Inc.)
with the assistance of the RFE/RL News and Current Affairs
Division (NCA). The report is available by electronic mail
via LISTSERV (RFERL-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU), on the
Sovset' computer bulletin board, by fax, and by postal mail.

Copyright 1993, RFE/RL, Inc. All rights reserved.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
From: pebi@aem.umn.edu (Peter A. Bidian)
Subject: rferl
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:51:19 GMT

Hello,

I guess there is no longer need for the rferl postings on this group as
they seem to have a group of their own now:

		misc.news.east-europe.rferl

Peter
From: matapu@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: this is a test, don't worry
Date: 6 Jan 93 15:06:34 EST
Distribution: world

In article <1g07m1INN3dn@morrow.stanford.edu>, mihai@sep.Stanford.EDU (Alexander Mihai Popovici) writes:
> In article <1992Dec7.090312.8795@gate.esat.kuleuven.ac.be>, ungur@magritte.esat.kuleuven.ac.be (Dorin Ungureanu) writes:
> |> 
> |> After carefully reading <<Mr. "Livian">>'s (also known as Akiva Segal:
> |> does not sound too Romanian to me!!) I have decided that some further 
> |> comments are in order here. I am sorry to interfere in the debate going
> 
> Individul e un dobitoc si nu merita toata aceasta atentie.
> Lasati-l in plata domnului, vorba ceea: Fiecare pasare pe limba
> ei piere.
> 
> Noroc
> MIhai
> 

this is a test...

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: horen@netcom.com (Jonathan B. Horen -- [408] 736-3923)
Subject: Re: Orthadox Judaism and women
Organization: NetCom -- OnLine Communication Services
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 02:54:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.231125.17773@netcom.com> madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann) writes:
>faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin) writes: >
>
>>The behavior only appears "sexist" when viewed from the egalitarian point of
>>view implicit in Reform and Conservative Judaism. Reform, and Conservative (to
>>a lesser extent), go out of their way to make all obligations equal. Whether
>>this is good or bad is not for me to say -- it all depends on your point of
>>view.
>
>But sexism, defined as the assignment of roles, privileges, and 
>restrictions by sex, is still sexism.  A law or tradition can be
>sexist and still be useful.  It is the rigidity of the law or
>tradition I object to.

I disagree with your definition, Maddi, insofar as it fails to
take into account the fact that "the assignment of roles..." is
of little, if any, consequence unless it [they] are *applied*,
and that application means `subject to an individual's
interpretation'. And not just *an* individual's interpretation,
but to *both* parties' interpretations.

It's like reading a joke in rec.humor.funny -- you might laugh
at it, while I might not see anything funny about it.

>Why stifle the intellect of half the population?  This was my
>objection to sexism in O.

Who says that an Orthodox woman has to be stifled? And if her
husband (or father, boss, brother, etc.) is doing so, who
says that she has to take it?

What I object to is the implication that Orthodox Jewish
women are made "dumb" or "stupid" by their religion. I
know far too many Orthodox Jewish women who are professionals
in the business and academic world, to take your comment as
anything but autobiographical. If so, perhaps you should
find a better group of Orthodox Jewish males.


-- 
Jonathan B. Horen       | A man should not strive to eliminate his complexes,
SysAdmin/SrTechWriter   | but to get in accord with them; they are 
Tel: (408) 736-3923     | legitimately what directs his conduct in the world.
Email: horen@netcom.com |                     -- Sigmund Freud
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Deportations/ What is HAMAS
Date: 10 Jan 93 20:41:35 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <93009.1559132893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> 2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Andy) writes:
>
>Regardless of what one tinks of the deportees, Israel's act has overnight
>made Hamas the leading group among Palestinians. Israel has succeeded in
>wasting the sympathy garnished by the murder of the Israeli soldier and
>replaced it with sympathy for Hamas. The deportations were politically stupid
>to say the least.

But the decision was not based on a political action.  It was made
prior to the events leading up to the death of Toledano.  It was
then justified and the secret let out of the bag.


Anisa
	"For a person who takes a step, in the pursuit
	of truth and righteousness, all that happens
	is good."
From: aplebaum@irs01.cs.huji.ac.il (Hillel Applebaum)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Lyrics to Hatikva
Date: 6 Jan 93 14:48:26 GMT
Organization: The Hebrew U. of Jerusalem, Computer Science Dep.
NNTP-Posting-Host: irs01.cs.huji.ac.il

In article <1993Jan5.000858.3554@imagen.com>, avi@seal.imagen.com (avi zelmanov) writes:
[sd - ]
|> While the English translation presented above rhymes, sounds nice and
|> manages to convery most of the ideas in the Hatikva, I thought some of us
|> would be intrested in the actual translation (more word for word than line
|> per line).
|> 
|> As well, the word "bat" in the hebrew source was omitted (in "Ha-tik-vah sh'not al-pa-yim" shout be "Ha-tik-vah bat sh'not al-pa-yim").
|> 
|> here's a more accuarte translation:
|> 
|> Kol od ba-le-vav pe-ni-mah,            So long as still within the heart
|> Ne-fesh ye-hu-di ho-mi-yah,            The Jewish soul yearns
|> 
|> U-le-fa-a-tey miz-rah ka-di-mah,       And towards the East,
|> A-yin le-Tzi-yon tzo-fi-yah,           An eye is looking toward Zion
|> Od lo av'dah tik-va-te-nu--            Our hope has not been lost yet,
|> Ha-tik-vah bat sh'not al-pa-yim--      The hope of two thousand years
|> Li-h'yot am hof-shi be-ar-tze-nu,      To be (a) free people in the Land
                                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^
if to be more close ------------------------------------------> in OUR land

|> E-retz Tzi-yon vi-ru-sha-la-yim...     The Land Of Zion and Jerusalem....
|> 
|> Li-h'yot am hof-shi be-ar-tze-nu       To be (a) free people in the Land
|> E-retz Tzi-yon vi-ru-sha-la yim.       The Land Of Zion and Jerusalem....

-- 

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-*-*- 
/ Hillel P. Applebaum     |> ISRAEL - where all		Better    the   Golan 
/ Jerusalem,   Israel     |  jews should live !		then peace without it.
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
From: GOLJERP@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu
Subject: Re: You Spell (C)Han(n)uk(k)a(h) in English?
Organization: Yale University
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 15:02:49 EST

It seems that everyone's forgotten the silent '4' in Channu4kah... :-)
        -- Jeremy
(I admit it... I got this idea from a Mar4k)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.italian
From: stefano@ecf.toronto.edu (Bruno Di Stefano)
Subject: Re: Why is the Florence synagogue "fortified" ?
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 04:10:17 GMT

In article <carmeli.726707392@exa> carmeli@exa.cs.umn.edu (Tidhar T. Carmeli) writes:
>In <1993Jan9.004015.4230@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> distef@eecg.toronto.edu (Eugenia Distefano) writes:
>
>>I was in Rome last summer. I counted four police cars and two 
>>police vans outside the synagogue. My guess is they are there
>>to protect the Jewish community from possible attacks from
>>Palestinian terrorists and Italian neo-Fascists. As for the
>
>	To be sure, it was pretty much the same story in Milano when I was
>living there (police stationed outside our local synagogue etc.).
>
>							Tidhar T. Carmeli
>							University of Minnesota
>
At the best of my recollection, in Rome police jeeps and trucks appeared
around the synagogue during the Fall of 1973.

Bruno

-- 
Bruno Di Stefano
stefano@ecf.toronto.edu		(course related matters)
bruno@ecf.toronto.edu		(professional matters)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ayf@pruxp.att.com (Avi Feldblum)
Subject: Re: Feld brothers update
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 13:52:18 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.024856.9205@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>
>Hillel Markowitz passes on an appeal for substantial "loans" and contributions
>to be sent to a bank in California.
>
>WARNING-there are enough contradictions and strongly unlikely elements
>in this whole story that anyone who has any regard for their money
>should check personally that the facts are accurate before sending
>any money. There is a possibility that this whole thing is a scam.

Hillel passed on the message from me, who has passed it on from Ken
Shlian, Avrum's brother in law. Loan means just that, and the money is
secured legally. Feel free to contact me, either by email or phone
(215-939-3748 during the day or 908-247-7525 during the evening) ifyou
have specific questions I can answer, or of you are a lawyer or would
like to have a lawyer examine the collateral documents. Before the
appeal was made in Highland Park in the synagogues here, the documents
were examined by a local lawyer, and he says the money is fully
secured. THIS WAS NOT FOR DONATIONS BEING MADE TO MOSSAD
MACCABBEE. There was a earlier appeal for that, with references to
letters from numerous halakhic authorities in Israel who declared that
donating for help with legal fees was a fulfillment of the mitzvah of
pidyon shevuim. This last message WAS NOT FOR DONATIONS. It was only
for a secured loan to help get the brothers out of jail on bail. The
money went directly to a bail fund set up by the lawyer, tied to the
collateral document, and secured by $5 Million in property in NY and
Israel.

NOTE TO ANYONE WHO DOES WANT TO HELP AND MAKE A LOAN:

Because the method of wiring funds to the bank only gives a record of
the bank from which the money was wired and the account within the bank
from which it is wired, Ken requests that you give him the additional
information to make sure that all the money is returned at the end of
the trial. You can either leave the information (Ken suggests at a
minimum, your name, a phone number you can be reached at, the amount of
the loan, an address for the money to be returned to [due to costs,
they are not sure if they will wire back the funds or write out and
send checks, wiring funds cost an additional amount of money], and if
possible the bank name and account number you have wired the money
from, so that they can match the bank wiring info with the personal
info) on Ken's answering machine (908-572-3502, but please do not call
after 10:30 pm Eastern time, as they have a newborn in the house) or
you can email the info to me and I will print it out and give it to Ken.

Avi Feldblum
feldblum@att.com
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:25075 soc.culture.arabic:6514
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: ERETZ YISRAEL (was Re: deportation)
Date: 12 Jan 1993 23:51:25 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
Distribution: world
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.23.70

In article 203449@uctvax.uct.ac.za, naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za () writes:

>The Turks always saw themselves as a different people to the Arabs. It is known 
>that during the middle of the 18th century that there were no Arabs in Israel
>(other than the Druze to the north). There were Jews, Turks and small Christian
>minorities who were not Arabs.

This is an outrageous claim contrary to accepted demography.  
Where is your evidence for it? 

>During the 19th century Arabs were brought in by the Turks to work on the land.
>Small groups of bedouins also entered. Many Palestinians only came after 1910.

Many yes, most no.

>Colin

Brendan.
From: goer@ellis.uchicago.edu (Richard L. Goerwitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: What is HAMAS
Date: 8 Jan 93 23:41:53 GMT
Reply-To: goer@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago

<norm@helix.nih.gov (Norman Friedman)> writes:
>What is this gibberish.  Hamas is the sworn enemy of Israel, Jews and everyone
>who is not of the Moslem brotherhood (it seems).  They are nothing but a bunch
>of killers who certainly do Not "want to live in peace in "Palestine"(wherever
>that may be) or anywhere else.  They are completley against the so-called
>peace process and are determined to undermine it in any way they can, including
>murder, kdnapping and terrorism.

Which, of course, justifies shipping them out of the country, and dumping
them in Lebanon's lap, or, barring that, letting them die in no-man's land.
Right?

You know, it's funny, but back, way back in the old days, there were no
big highways, roads, cars, etc., and Israel was a lot bigger than it is now.
It's now a tiny splotch on the world map, and its security is almost impos-
sible to maintain within its current borders.  Technology and modern trans-
portation has shrunk Israel - at least viewed as a military target.

It's an impossible situation.

Come home to America :-).

-- 

   -Richard L. Goerwitz              goer%midway@uchicago.bitnet
   goer@midway.uchicago.edu          rutgers!oddjob!ellis!goer
From: pinkas@skywalker.intel.com (Israel Pinkas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Feld brothers update
Date: 6 Jan 93 01:42:28 GMT
Organization: Software Technologies, INTeL Corporation, Santa Clara, CA

strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:

> The Chabad Rabbi who is cited as having first-hand knowledge of this
> has not returned my calls. Knowing Chabad and the standard behavior of
> Chabad Rabbis (I'm a substantial contributor), I find this
> particularly odd, and my efforts to check it out first-hand myself
> have met with failure so far.

Hillel asked me to contact Rabbi Levin and get an official statement.  I'll
try, but I suspect that he won't want to.  Rabbi Levin has taken a lot of
flack over this issue.

As for not returning phone calls, the office was deluged with phone calls
and still gets over 10 calls/day.  Answering these calls takes time and
money that nobody has.  The Chabad office is staffed by a 3/4 time
secretary and by Rabbi Levin.  Rabbi Levin has other responsibilities, and
is very overwhelmed in general.  The office is operating at a loss, and
returning calls would cost hundreds of dollars.

Rabbi Levin's interest in this matter is that he is the Santa Clara County
Jewish chaplain.  He has no other connection to the Felds.  His statements
to the papers have been taken out of context in some occasions.  His only
knowledge of the Felds is from their discussions.

If I can get anything else, I will post.  I do not plan to reply to all the
messages that people send me asking me to call Rabbi Levin or to tell hime
something.

BTW, people can send mail to the Felds c/o the prison.  I believe that the
address was posted recently.  If I can locate it, I'll post it.

-Israel

--
Israel Pinkas		pinkas@stps18.intel.com		408-765-4210

	"Everybody's askaird of death, until it hits you ...
	 then you don't care"		-Archie Bunker
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: esafern@shearson.com (Eric Safern)
Subject: Re: REAL Cheese?
Reply-To: esafern@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 08:53:28 GMT

As regards Miriam Nadel's recent post (I have misplaced it)

Can you elaborate on the other halachic problems with regular cheese?

If the issues are involved are small (easy/cheap to correct, there is 
no obvious reason for the major cheese manufacturers to avoid certification.

---
							Eric Safern
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Internet: esafern@sisyphus.govt.shearson.com   ...!uunet!sisyphus!esafern
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: reznik@robios.me.wisc.edu (Dan S Reznik)
Subject: Re: Jewish Singers
Organization: U. Wisconsin-Madison, Robotics Laboratory
Date: 8 Jan 93 16:53:44
	<1992Dec31.002438.978@speedy.aero.org>
	<1993Jan7.170318.852@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
In-reply-to: sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com's message of Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:03:18 GMT

bizet wasn't jewish but he married a jewish woman whose dad funded his
carmen libretto.

dan
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:24788 soc.culture.arabic:6374
From: naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: ERETZ YISRAEL (was Re: deportation)
Keywords: canaanites
Date: 8 Jan 93 18:18:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: uctvax.1993Jan8.161829.203446
Organization: University of Cape Town

In article <1993Jan8.033548.13825@nysernet.org>, astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
> faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris) writes:
> 
>>You are very wrong Mr. Applebaum, the Palestinians are direct decendants of
>>the Canaanites and they were definately there first.
> 
> Considering all the migration in and out of Eretz Yisrael during that
> he last few millenia, that's highly unlikely, not even considering the
> fact that no trace of the Canaanites is known to exist today anywhere.
> -- 

Actually the only people who can claim descent from the Canaanites are the Jews
since all the ancient tribes living in Israel eventually assimilated into the
Jewish people. 

The Canaanites were not a nation of people. The term as used in the Bible
refers to the people who controled the cities of Western Israel (Canaan) as 
servants of the Egyptians during the period c. 1400 - 1200 when this area was
under Egyptian rule. They fell into three racial groups Hurrian, Hittite
and West Semitic/Levantine. The first two of these were invaders from 
the area which is now Turkey. As for the West Semitic people the Hebrews were
also West Semitic. The archeological evidence shows that  Israel was the 
birthplace of West Semitic/Levantine civilization. Thus the Hebrews had a
strong claim to this land. Today the Jews are the only people descended from 
the ancient West Semites, the earliest inhabitants of Israel.

Not only are the modern Palestinians not related to the Canaanites, they do
not seem to be related to the Arabs who invaded Israel in the 7th century CE
since those Arabs assimilated into the Seljuk Turks.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Kosher question
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:55:30 GMT

norm@helix.nih.gov(Norm Friedman) writes:

> >Are the Kosher laws cumulative?  For example, if I eat a ham and
> >cheese sandwich am I violating BOTH the law against eating ham AND the
> >law against eating meat with milk, or does the fact that pork is treif
> >mean that it doesn't count as meat for the purpose of the prohibition
> >of meat with milk?
> >
> >If, in fact, there is a violation of both laws, what is the effect of
> >that?  Is the appropriate punishment greater for the double violation
> >than for the single one?

> JK, if in fact you know it is a violation of Laws of Kasruth, why worry
> about how many laws you are breaking. You are trying to equate man's laws
> with Hashem's laws.  

This type of question is good enough to appear in the Gemara in several
forms.  In fact, the Gemara tries to find acts that will violate the
maximum number of issurim at once.  It's kind if fun (the enigma, that
is, not the act, though that may be too).

Pork is not considered meat, so eating ham and cheese is a violation of
only one issur, provided, of course, that the cheese and bread are kosher.
The practical application is in consideration of the number of punishments
or "debts" one owes on his/her act.

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish