HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jhharde@erenj.com (John Hardenbergh)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: Trumpet failing to run
Keywords: NDIS, Trumpet
Date: 23 Dec 92 21:01:07 GMT
Organization: Exxon Research and Engineering

In article <1h80khINNl2j@newz.ens.tek.com> ronk@cascade.ens.tek.com (Ron Kirkpatrick) writes:
>From: ronk@cascade.ens.tek.com (Ron Kirkpatrick)
>Subject: Trumpet failing to run
>Date: 22 Dec 1992 21:17:05 GMT
>Keywords: NDIS, Trumpet
>I just brought up trumpet 1.05G on a pc running the DNIS drivers from
>PC/TCP and I am getting the following error:
>

>
>My AUTOEXEC.BAT reads:
>
>   set PATH=C:\DOS;C:\LANMAN;C:\PCTCP21
>   PROMPT $P$G
>   SET PCTCP=C:\PCTCP\PCTCP.INI
>   cd \ban 
>   ban 
>   cd \
>   ethdrv
>
>   
>What am I doing wrong?
>
>-- 
>Ron Kirkpatrick
>Tektronix, Inc
>News Administrator
>503-627-6707

I need to run netbind ( also from FTP I think ) to get this all to work.
Xref: sparky news.software.readers:2641 news.software.b:3678
From: cudcv@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Rob McMahon)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers,news.software.b
Subject: Re: DESIGN DISCUSSION: The reference line is deficient
Date: 2 Jan 1993 16:29:54 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
NNTP-Posting-Host: sprocket.csv.warwick.ac.uk

In article <1hsu7lINNrsf@smurf.sub.org> urlichs@smurf.sub.org (Matthias
Urlichs) writes: 
>But an R<ID> or an X-_anything_:-header doesn't give you a useable ID either
>-- if the association of a subtree to its parent is lost, it's gone no matter
>whether somebody failed to propagate an X-Root:- header or whether the first
>ID of References: got deleted.

Me too.  Oh sugar, I didn't mean to say that.  I just want to add weight to
the argument that requiring that the first reference be kept is *much* nicer
than adding a new header or a new syntax for references.  The first reference
is walso much more likely to remain intact with existing software than a new
X-* header.  If you want to be more certain that the first reference is
correct, you could always follow that reference and compare notes.  If that
isn't still around, work down the references list for the first extant
article, and compare notes there.

Cheers,

Rob
-- 
UUCP:   ...!mcsun!uknet!warwick!cudcv	PHONE:  +44 203 523037
JANET:  cudcv@uk.ac.warwick             INET:   cudcv@warwick.ac.uk
Rob McMahon, Computing Services, Warwick University, Coventry CV4 7AL, England
From: ophof@SERVER.uwindsor.ca (Scott Ophof)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: Text editing in tin
Date: 28 Dec 1992 03:45:33 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Paul Gilmartin said:
>Michael Malloy (mmjjmm@post.its.mcw.edu) wrote:
>: What is the easiest text editor to use with the tin newsgroup reader?
>The one you know best.

This is no answer.  The one *I* find easiest to use simply isn't 
available on most Unix systems.  And no, I'm not a MacBigot or
PC-fanatic.  (I almost wish I were; it'd make my life MUCH easier...)

Personally, I would like to see a *real* answer to this question.
And if at all possible, one that would list possibles for all
the non-Unix envirs one can think of, for those who have to struggle
with unfriendly, terse (to the point of non-informative) so-called
"help" files and contra-intuitive (let alone logical) commands in the
Unix environment.

Regards.
$$/
From: luwsm@lehigh.edu (Wayne S. Mery)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: opposite of a kill file?
Date: 30 Dec 92 17:02:39 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University Computing Center

In article <C02Dv1.x9@news.cso.uiuc.edu> rls@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Ray Swartz (Oh, that guy again)) writes:
>Subject: opposite of a kill file?
>Date: 30 Dec 92 08:49:48 GMT
> I'm a trn beginner so forgive this if it's a simple question.

>        Is there a way in trn to set up a thread that you will always want to
>read?  There are ways of killing a thread via kill files, but it would be nice
>to mark a thread as 'interesting', so that you don't always have to remember
>the name of it when you go into the group every day to read it.

>Raymond L. Swartz Jr. (rls@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu)
>================================================================================
>I read the newspaper today and was amazed that, in 24 hours, five billion
>people could accomplish so little.
>================================================================================

I'd like to expand Raymond's request just a tad bit.  What newsreaders 
(not just trn) provide this capability.  It seems to me such a capability 
would be a component of any good newsreader but the function appears to 
be lacking in the readers I've seen.  Can't be much more difficult to 
implement than simply copying the 'kill code' with minor modification. 

Wayne Mery
use: wsm0@lehigh.edu

the seems supp
From: emv@msen.com (Edward Vielmetti)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: PICO and TIN
Date: 30 Dec 1992 20:40:28 GMT
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, Michigan
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.msen.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

> blank article

Turn "editor offset", item 2 on the setup screen that you reach with
'M', to 'OFF'.  Otherwise tin tries to start up pico as
	pico +7 .article
and since unlike 'vi' and 'emacs' pico does not understand that '+n'
means 'position the cursor at line n' you end up editing a file +7
and posting a blank article.


  Edward Vielmetti, vice president for research, Msen Inc. emv@Msen.com
        Msen Inc., 628 Brooks, Ann Arbor MI  48103 +1 313 998 GLOB
From: ronk@cascade.ens.tek.com (Ron Kirkpatrick)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: Trumpet failing to run
Date: 23 Dec 1992 22:23:02 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc.,  Beaverton, OR
Distribution: world
Reply-To: Ron.C.Kirkpatrick@tek.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: cascade.ens.tek.com
Keywords: NDIS, Trumpet

Update:

I can now startup the abi version of trumpet (I had to rename newsabi.exe
to news2.exe) and I can read news, but the PC hangs whenever I try to post
news. With the debug on I see a 'post' command going out to the news
server and the '304 OK' reponse, but the PC is hung.

Any ideas?

For those who informed me that I needed to run netbind - ban includes netbind. 

-- 
Ron Kirkpatrick
Tektronix, Inc
News Administrator
503-627-6707
Newsgroups: news.software.readers,news.software.b
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: DESIGN DISCUSSION: The reference line is deficient
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 05:01:45 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <1hro2sINNo54@daisy.ee.und.ac.za> barrett@daisy.ee.und.ac.za (Alan P Barrett) writes:
>Don't change the format.  Encourage authors of posting software to
>ensure that the first reference is always retained.  Lobby for this
>encouragement to be enshrined in the son-of-RFC1036.

It is most assuredly found in my son-of-RFC1036 draft (which is running
slightly behind its release-by-end-of-year schedule, but not far behind;
stay tuned).

This draft will be only a first input into the RFC process, so change
is possible, and some lobbying might be required. :-)
-- 
"God willing... we shall return."       | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
       -Gene Cernan, the Moon, Dec 1972 |  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
Newsgroups: nyx.misc,news.software.readers
From: sridhar@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (Sridhar Venkataraman )
Subject: Re: threading
Organization: ASU, Valley of the Sun(s), AZ
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 16:21:43 GMT

jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (JKF) writes:
)aburt@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (Andrew Burt) writes:
)>
)>Well, beats me.  I have "mthreads -a all" done twice an hour in crontab.
)
)Embarrassedly, I reply that I have no idea what that does... but what
)should we do next?  Start posting about the problem on news.software.readers
)or news.admin.technical?  What kind of news software does Nyx use?

I have a feeling that Nyx is not running the expire option of mthreads.
Atleast that was what I noticed when I was using Nyx until a month back.
Now that I don't have Usenet access on Nyx, I can't check.

Sridhar.
--
Sridhar Venkataraman			sridhar@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
Xref: sparky news.software.readers:2600 news.software.b:3650
From: fenner@postscript.cs.psu.edu (Bill Fenner)
Subject: Re: Performance Problems with RN 4.4
Organization: Penn State Computer Science
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 06:07:08 GMT

In article <1992Dec24.210640.7839jp@tygra.Michigan.COM> jp@tygra.Michigan.COM (John Palmer) writes:
| [Question deleted]
|
|-- 
|Its most likely a     | E-MAIL: jp@michigan.com  CAT-TALK IS BACK as a FREE
|forgery, so save your | SYSTEM!! 313-882-2209 300-14400 V.32/V.32BIS/TurboPEP
|flames for someone    | Anon-UUCP: System: tygra, Login: nuucp, no pw
|cares                 | Get file "/cat/pub/filelist" for a list of files.

If this is a forgery, then why bother answering the question, since it wasn't
actually asked?

  Bill
Xref: sparky news.software.readers:2642 news.software.b:3679 news.software.nntp:1734
From: markb@spock.dis.cccd.edu (Mark Bixby)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers,news.software.b,news.software.nntp
Subject: $NAME and trn, inn inews, NNTP inews, Cnews inews
Date: 2 Jan 1993 10:29:56 -0800
Organization: Coast Community College District, Costa Mesa, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: spock.dis.cccd.edu

Trn defines the env var NAME as overriding the full user name contained in
/etc/passwd.  We use this to allow multiple posters to share the same login
ID.  This worked fine when using trn with the Cnews inews and the NNTP 1.5.11
inews.  However, I just recently converted to INN and its inews, and the
NAME feature stopped working.

Investigation into the trn side of things shows that no From: header gets passed
to the desired inews.  Instead, trn apparently relies on inews (or its
descendants) to generate a default From: header.

The Cnews inews (well, actually a script several layers deep), generates a 
default From: that utilizes the NAME variable.  The NNTP 1.5.11 inews also
recognizes the NAME variable in the same manner.  But INN's inews does not,
and strictly uses the "official" name.

I suspect that the purists will say that INN's way is the cleanest, and that
transports should just be passive movers of articles.  If so, then trn
documenting NAME and then not generating a From: header which utilizes it
can be considered a bug, IMHO.

I'd like to hear from other trn/inn users as to how they implemented NAME
support.  Thanks.
-- 
Mark Bixby                         Internet: markb@spock.dis.cccd.edu
Coast Community College District   1370 Adams Avenue
District Information Services      Costa Mesa, CA, USA  92626
Technical Support                  (714) 432-5064
"You can tune a file system, but you can't tune a fish." - tunefs(1M)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
From: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton)
Subject: Re: opposite of a kill file?
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1993 05:12:24 GMT

You can use newsclip as your filter mechanism.  It is on ftp.clarinet.com,
in sources/nc.tar.Z
-- 
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366
From: walker@skat.usc.edu (Michael D Walker)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: structured news readers?
Date: 26 Dec 1992 23:20:57 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: skat.usc.edu


Are there any news readers that will allow you to organized
news-groups into groups and subgroups, under your control?

With 2000+ news groups around, and many overlapping and related
news-groups, a newsrc list is as inadequate as giant /etc/passwd.

I'd like to group related (for me) news-groups to save
time and focus on a particular (possibly broad) topic.

Mike
-- 
 /  /\ /\ Mike Walker      walker@usc.edu   uunet!usc!walker  \ /  /  
/ / \ /   University of Southern Cal,   U Computing Services \ \\/\\  
\/ \/ \   University Park, LA, CA 90089-0251  (213) 740-7382  \/  / \/
Jay Leno for Cray Computers - "Crunch all you want.  We'll make more."
From: russell@alpha3.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Russell Schulz)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: List of PC newsreaders, please...
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 20:03:41 MST
Organization: Private System, Edmonton, AB, Canada
X-Newsreader: rusnews v0.97

david@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov (David Mills) writes:

> One of my users wants to start sampling the delights of UseNet but lacks SW a
> nd
> setup info. Is there a list someplace of newsreaders for PC-based systems? I
> am familiar with rn and nn on UNIX machines. Are there PC versions? Maybe I
> should simply ask for recommendations on where to go to research this whole
> business.

ton o' summary follows:

check comp.bbs.waffle and comp.mail.uucp

I hear rumors that this posting will soon be updated and re-posted:

  Subject: FAQ - UUCP Mail, News, and Gateway Software for PCs and MACs

for uupc, I know of (but have not used):
  snews, pcnews

for fsuucp, I know of... nada - what _DO_ fsuucp people use?  Cambler?

for waffle, I know of
  waffle itself (old interface and new one, called `rn' - haven't used it)
  helldiver (if you use windog, this is the one to get - great reviews!)
  nwreader (I haven't used it in a while - database-based for speed)
  rusnews (mine - it uses the keystrokes of `nn' that I've implemented so far)

pretty well all of these packages are available on simtel20 and its mirrors
(eg wuarchive.wustl.edu:/mirrors/msdos/* etc.) - some of these entries have
already been updated by now

KA9Q-TCPIP/PCELM301.FIX - Fix for PCELM301 and uuPC/extended RMAIL.EXE"
KA9Q-TCPIP/PCELM301.ZIP - Mail user agent for KA9Q NOS, UUPC or Waffle"
LAN/PCNEWS.ZIP - Read Usenet news on local or PC-NFS filesystem"
UUCP/SNEWS190.ZIP - SNEWS 1.90: Threaded newsreader for UUPC"
UUCP/SNWS190S.ZIP - Source code for SNEWS 1.90 newsreader for UUPC"
UUCP/UUPC11Q2.ZIP - Mail w/UUCP required executables for OS/2"
UUCP/UUPC11Q3.ZIP - Mail w/UUCP optional executables for OS/2"
UUCP/UUPC11QD.ZIP - Mail w/UUCP formatted DOS & OS/2 documents"
UUCP/UUPC11QO.ZIP - Mail w/UUCP optional executables for DOS"
UUCP/UUPC11QR.ZIP - Mail w/UUCP required executables for DOS"
UUCP/UUPC11QS.ZIP - Mail w/UUCP source for BC++ 2.0 or MS C 6.0"
UUCP/UUPC11QW.ZIP - Mail w/UUCP unformatted WfW Documents"
[whole ton o' WAFFLE/* entries deleted]
WAFFLE/WAF165.ZIP - Waffle BBS v1.65, with UUCP mail & Usenet News"

also look at halcyon.com:/pub/waffle for instance:

in pub/waffle/news

helld107.zip  137322   22-Oct-92   Helldiver newsreader for Windows

nn271.zoo     166786   15-Sep-92   NN clone for DOS
  (I believe this is actually the nwreader I mentioned)

rusn-09.zip    71120   15-Nov-92   Another threaded newsreader
  (rusn-096 is there, soon to be rusn-097)
-- 
Russell Schulz  russell@alpha3.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca  ersys!rschulz  Shad 86c
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
From: markz@ssc.com (Mark Zenier)
Subject: Re: DESIGN DISCUSSION: The reference line is deficient
Organization: SSC, Inc.,  Seattle, WA
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 19:27:21 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Wayne Davison (davison@borland.com) wrote:
: I'm trying to solve the problem of being able to refer to a unique
: thread identifier in a KILL file while still being able to deduce
: this identifier long after the original article(s) have expired. 

You'll have to take into account.

1) Some people see no use for Reference lines and discard them.
The moderator of comp.dcom.telecom for one.

2) A significant portion of the net particpants use gateways to 
lists or other nets, and other software, that doesn't have a clue 
about References.

3) Some people are forced to use strange posting methods that
will create a new thread, especially if they have to type in
a new Subject line.

There ain't no hope.

Mark Zenier  markz@ssc.wa.com  

Newsgroups: news.software.readers,news.software.b
From: davison@borland.com (Wayne Davison)
Subject: Looking for trn testers -- especially NOV users
Organization: Borland International
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 07:09:08 GMT

Now that trn 2.3 is almost ready for release (expect the patch to show
up early next week), I'm working on a new version of trn that will be
able to use a variety of databases for its article threading.  I have
reworked trn's guts and have a version that supports:

   o	mthread-generated .thread files, including NNTP-XTHREAD (as before)
   o	.overview files (Geoff's "NOV" package), including NNTP-XOVER
   o	threading directly from articles without using tmpthread
   o	all of the above in the same executable, if desired -- useful
	for accessing more than one system type via NNTP
   o	more flexible internal data structures, including article-oriented
	selection (instead of just thread-oriented) and various thread
	sorting options

I'd especially like to get some feedback on the overview support.  If
you'd be interested in helping me test it, drop me a line and let me
know what kind of trn setup you plan to use.  Also mention if you are
the type that likes to send patches along with the bug reports -- it
may get you preferential treatment.  :-)

I should have the first test version available sometime next week,
though I'll still be adding some new features after that (depending
on how much free time I have in January).  Suggestions for improvements
are welcomed, but don't expect really large changes.

..wayne..
From: mbs@adastra.cvl.va.us (Michael B. Smith)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: opposite of a kill file?
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn-beta 1.16g (28.12.92) by Michael B. Smith & Mike Schwartz
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Date: 30 Dec 92 15:56:35 EST
Organization: Well, I haven't decided on a name yet...

In article <luwsm.27.725734959@lehigh.edu> luwsm@lehigh.edu (Wayne S. Mery) writes:
> In article <C02Dv1.x9@news.cso.uiuc.edu> rls@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Ray Swartz (Oh, that guy again)) writes:
> >        Is there a way in trn to set up a thread that you will always want to
> >read?  There are ways of killing a thread via kill files, but it would be nice
> >to mark a thread as 'interesting', so that you don't always have to remember
> >the name of it when you go into the group every day to read it.
>
> I'd like to expand Raymond's request just a tad bit.  What newsreaders
> (not just trn) provide this capability.  It seems to me such a capability
> would be a component of any good newsreader but the function appears to
> be lacking in the readers I've seen.  Can't be much more difficult to
> implement than simply copying the 'kill code' with minor modification.

I'm working on this for GRn (a GUI'ed newsreader on the Amiga), and I'm calling
it "Mark Mode".

However, it is LOTS more complicated than kill code. With kill, you just take
something away. With mark-mode, there is a fair amount of state information
that has to be maintained (such as newsgroup and article number; in my case I
also need to remember NNTP host, DNet host, window/dialog, thread info, etc.
etc.).

I will grant that the User Interface portion of it would resemble kill a great
deal (mark this author, subject, thread, etc., etc.; mark it for this length
of time).
--
  //   Michael B. Smith
\X/    mbs@adastra.cvl.va.us  -or-  uunet.uu.net!virginia.edu!adastra!mbs
Newsgroups: news.software.readers,news.software.b
From: pg@sanitas.stortek.com (Paul Gilmartin)
Subject: Re: does tin thread ,first in last displayed
Organization: Storage Technology Corp.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 05:38:27 GMT

The Stony Brook Press (sbpress@libws4) wrote:
: When ever I read news with tin , I get the feeling that tin displays
: the last recives message first and the first recieved message last.
: Is this true, and can it be changed?

The "M" command gives you lots of opportunity to change this.
From: kcb@post.its.mcw.edu (Kent C. Brodie)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: xxxxxxx
Date: 29 Dec 1992 14:12:32 -0600
Organization: Medical College of Wisconsin  (Milwaukee, WI)
NNTP-Posting-Host: post.its.mcw.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]


I am using tin (PL7), and have a weird problem.  Anyone entering "vi"
(for posting an article, for instance) goes into READ MODE.

"/usr2/staff/kcb/.article" [Read only] 6 lines, 74 characters".

Same for following up, too.

The only way to get around this is FORCING a write when done.
(e.g., wq!).

Does anyone know why this might be happening?  It's causing
our users tons of grief........

-- 
--------------
Kent C. Brodie - Sr. Systems/Network Manager		brodie@post.its.mcw.edu
Information Technology Systems
Medical College of Wisconsin				(414) 257-8769
Xref: sparky news.software.readers:2590 news.software.b:3642
From: barrett@daisy.ee.und.ac.za (Alan P Barrett)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers,news.software.b
Subject: Re: DESIGN DISCUSSION: The reference line is deficient
Date: 30 Dec 1992 10:53:48 +0200
Organization: Dept. Elec. Eng., Univ. Natal, Durban, S. Africa
NNTP-Posting-Host: daisy.ee.und.ac.za

In article <C01EKq.J9q@borland.com>,
davison@borland.com (Wayne Davison) writes:
> A similar solution uses the same basic hueristic but stores the
> information as a special ID in the References line.  For example,
> the first reply to a root article would get the line:
>
>     References: R<original@id>
>
> where the R prepended to the standard Message-ID denotes the root status.
> The general case is:
>
>     References: R<root@id> <old@references> <last@id>
>
> where the old@references could possibly be trimmed.  This method has
> the advantage of being propigated by newsreaders that don't understand
> it PLUS you don't have to tweak things like the .overview file format
> to include it.

Why change the format at all?  The 'R' tells you nothing that you don't
alread know from the mere fact that it is the first reference on the line.
You can get the same result by using

     References: <root@id> <old@references> <last@id>

where the <root@id> is always propagated from an article to its followup,
but some of the <old@references> might be trimmed during a followup.

> Q1:  What solution do you think would be best?  Better ideas gladly
>      accepted.

Don't change the format.  Encourage authors of posting software to
ensure that the first reference is always retained.  Lobby for this
encouragement to be enshrined in the son-of-RFC1036.

> Q2:  Do you know of any newsreader/news-software that would be adversely
>      affected by having a R<id> as the first Message-ID in the References
>      line?

I know that it violates the spec.  Isn't that enough?

--apb
Alan Barrett, Dept. of Electronic Eng., Univ. of Natal, Durban, South Africa
RFC822: barrett@ee.und.ac.za                    Bang: m2xenix!undeed!barrett
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
From: cctr127@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Jason Haar)
Subject: Re: PICO and TIN
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 23:37:13 GMT

Kent C. Brodie (kcb@post.its.mcw.edu) wrote:
> Edward Vielmetti (emv@msen.com) wrote:
> : > blank article
> : 
> : Turn "editor offset", item 2 on the setup screen that you reach with
> : 'M', to 'OFF'.  Otherwise tin tries to start up pico as
> : 	pico +7 .article

> cool!   it works!   thanks.  (I had the same problem)


It works better than that - what version of pico are you using? Here
the "+4" qualifier does make pico start on the fourth line... (this is
pico from pine3.05.tar.Z)

Also invoke pico as "pico -t" - that stops pico asking for confirmation on
exit (tin asks it too, so why duplicate the effort).

--

Cheers

Jason Haar, Network Consultant
CSC, University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand
phone: +64-3-3642 2336    fax: +64-3-364 2332
Newsgroups: news.software.readers