From: sschaff@roc.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Stephen F. Schaffner)
Subject: Re: Gays in the Military
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:24:56 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.183144.16669@gboro.glassboro.edu>, kilroy@gboro.glassboro.edu (Dr Nancy's Sweetie) writes:

|> This thread has been encumbered by some bad arguments.  

That's certainly true.

I do have some difficulty with your second point, however.
|>   2: Who lusts after whom?
|> 
|> Discussing the problem of unwanted sexual attention, someone said:
|> 
|> > Gay people do not lust over straight people anymore than a straight person
|> > might lust over a gay person [.]
|> 
|> And got this reply:
|> 
|> > I know that all gay people donot lust after straight people, but just tell
|> > me, how do they know who is straight or gay from outer appearance.
|> 
|> It's not that all gays don't lust after straights, it's that they don't
|> necessarily lust after gays either.  Just because Fred may be gay does not
|> mean he lusts after every other man he sees.
|> 
|> Straight men don't lust after every woman they meet; straight women don't lust
|> after all men.  Why should we suppose that this is any different for gay men
|> or women?

I don't lust after every woman I meet either.  In the context of this 
discussion, however, the question should be, do I lust after every woman I meet 
in the shower?  Now I don't have a whole lot of experience in this particular 
area, but I suspect (call it a hunch) that I'd have more problems with lust if 
I met women in the shower than if I meet them in the supermarket.  Whether the 
same applies to everyone else, or whether it depends at all on sexual
orientation, I couldn't say.

|> Continuing, the last-quoted person (whose name I could not find) said:
|> 
|> > [H]ow do [gays] know who is straight or gay from outer appearance.
|> > Straights can obviously tell the difference.
|> 
|> Really?  How?  I've met several people who gave no indication whatever of
|> being gay, only to find that they were.  Some others I know of who were (in
|> whispers) suspected of being gay quite definitely are not.
|> 
|> So far as I can make out, there is no way of being certain about another
|> person's sexual preference besides asking him or her.  Stereotypes about how
|> they dress or their personal mannerisms seem to be very fallible.

I'm not sure, but I think you've tripped over an ambiguity in the original 
posting.  I took "straights can obviously tell the difference" to mean "they 
can tell the difference between men and women", i.e. they know whom to lust 
after.  The argument would then run "Gays are attracted to members of the 
same sex.  They will be showering with members of the same sex.  Maybe in 
general they are only attracted to other gays, but in the shower, how can they 
tell who's who?"
	My own response to that last question, by the way, is "I don't know 
and I don't care."  Of course, just because it wouldn't bother me doesn't mean 
the same is true of everyone else; nevertheless, I do find this a rather weak 
argument for justifying a policy of discrimination on the part of the government 
against a class of its own citizens (whatever I happen to think about the 
morality of their lifestyle).  

-- 
Steve Schaffner        sschaff@unixhub.slac.stanford.edu
	The opinions expressed may be mine, and may not be those of SLAC, 
Stanford University, or the DOE.
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