HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: josh@aris.ss.uci.edu (Josh Stern)
Subject: Re: Mahler 1
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 2 Oct 92 06:44:01 GMT

>Deryck Barker writes:

>In article <QH7QBXJN@cc.swarthmore.edu> enute1@cc.swarthmore.edu.cmccon1 (Daniel Gottlieb) writes:
>>	I realize that this may open myself up to a deluge of replies, but I would
>>like to hear about all the favorite recordings of Mahler 1 out there.  My
>>personal favorite is the most recent Bernstein D.G. with the Concertgebow,
>>but I've heard that the new Tenstett (spelling?) C.S.O. live recording on
>>Angel/E.M.I. is just incredible.  Any advice?

>I've not heard the new Tennstedt, I know it was the *one* symphony in
>his complete cycle he wanted to remake. Frankly I've not been
>convinced by any of his Mahler, although I've still to hear the 8th.

>My personal favourite is also one of the cheapest: Kubelik, 1968. Just
>listen to the way those strings bounce out at you in the coda, even
>Bernstein doesn't get close to this.

>I have maybe 20 versions of this, I still go back to Kubelik - which
>is on a cheap DG reissue coupled with the Fahrenden Gesellen cycle,
>Fischer-Dieskau/Boehm. Can't be beat.

>Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.


I prefer Bruno Walter's CBS/Sony recording of Mahler 1 to all of the
recordings mentioned above in this article, as well as all of the other
Mahler 1 performances that I have heard  (John Dooley also voted for the
Walter and gave details in his post).  Those interested in Tennstedt's
recent recording should be advised to check the movt. timings before
buying; it is VERRRY SLOOOOOOW - absurdly so in my opinion.

I agree with Deryck that the Fischer-Dieskau performance of the Fahrenden
Gesellen cycle that is coupled with the Kubelik can't be beat.

BUT

a) the orchestra in that performance is also conducted by Kubelik, not
by Boehm.

b) the copy of this performance that appears on the disc with Kubelik's
Mahler 1 is sonically inferior to the copy of the SAME performance that
appears on another DG disc coupled with Fisher-Dieskau performing the
Kindertonlieder with an orchestra led by Boehm and 4 or the 5 Rueckert
Lieder, also with Boehm.  Since these other performances are also
very fine, I would advise seeking out this all FD disc if the Fahrenden
Gesellen is one's priority.


Josh Stern  josh@aris.ss.uci.edu
From: lampson@software.pulse.com (Dave Lampson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Why switch to CD?
Date: 6 Oct 92 15:30:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: software.9210061530.AA05928


In a recent article, Tim Takahashi writes:
>   "Digital Remastering" does not necessarily mean better. Usually it
>   turns a muddy analog recording into an equalized muddy digital remastering.

"Digital Remastering" does not necessarily mean anything.

*All* CDs that contain original analog recordings are *by definition* 
remastered into the digital domain before transference onto the CD.
It can't be any other way.  What Tim is talking about, I think, is 
re-editting/mixing the original analog recording from the multitrack
masters.  This happens *very* infrequently.  It's too expensive.


>   Post 1950 recording technology is pretty good, surely all microphones
>   are coloured and some more than others. But less processing is usually
>   better - digital "remastering" is processing, just as "electronically
>   enhanced for stereo".

Digital remastering is *not* processing in the same sense as "electronically
enhanced for stereo".  It is simply the digital encoding of the original 
analog master.  While the mastering equipment may make a difference
(Sterophile and Chesky certainly think it does, to name a few), the point
of mastering is not to perform enhancement on the audio signal.  Any
processing of this sort would occur *before* the mastering.  If the
original analog master was bad, the digital master will contain the
same flaws, unless processing (noise reduction, equalization, etc.) 
is used before the mastering process.

In short, I just want to emphasize that all CDs come from digital masters
(the last letter of the SPARS code is *always D, i.e., AAD, ADD, DAD, DDD)
and the phrase "Digital Remastered From An Original Analog Recording"
essentially means nothing since it was manditory in order for it to be
transfered to digital media (the CD).


Dave
lampson@pulse.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: music@moravian.edu (Steve Heller)
Subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata 32
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 19:26:21 EDT

In <1206@xlnt.COM> david@xlnt.com (David Johnson) writes:

>[comments about Beethoven's 32nd piano sonata sounding like American jazz]

>There is an earlier Beethoven piano sonata which sounds very much like
>ragtime in one passage.  I do not remember which one.

There are a number of sonatas with snappy, syncopated rhythms. Another
one I really like that isn't heard very often is the 2 movement op.54.
The first movement is a somewhat odd menuet. The 2nd movement is sort
of a perpetuum mobilum in 16th notes, possibly the closest thing to a
toccata and/or etude that B. ever wrote. It does have a syncopated,
almost ragtime-esque feel to it.
-- 
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
#   export meaning_of_life=$(eval 'grep -i truth mind_of_god | sort -u')  #
# Work: music@moravian.edu  <#!AMIGA!#>  Home: moravian.edu!vortex!lothar #
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay)
Subject: Re: Who's driving this performance, anyway?
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1992 23:32:26 EDT


In article <92274.213641KSSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Ken Sherrill
<KSSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:

>Intentionally or not, Jon Alan Conrad's comments on the Milanov/Bjoerling Ballo
>and the rise of conductor-driven (as opposed to star-driven) performances
>should start a considerable thread. Which is the lesser evil? Which is the
>greater event?

It strikes me that you might get different answers from singers, conductors
and the audience.  

Also, Jon's generalization may be true as a generalization, but there were
exceptions in the past as there are now.  Let's ask Toscanini's ghost about
who was driving!  %^)

On the other hand, I have heard a number of complete performances from the
30's where it sounds like *nobody* is driving.  From time to time a star
singer pulls things together, but a lot of time they are all over the map.
I have often wondered whether singers and orchestra had trouble hearing
each other at the old Met?

Chris Ischay
chrisi@camex.com
From: icking@gmd.de (Werner Icking)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Anyone heard of this piece?
Date: 30 Sep 92 13:25:17 GMT
Organization: GMD, Sankt Augustin, Germany

In <1992Sep22.223549.1596@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com> lms@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Max Stern 310-524-6152) writes:

>In article <15180@mindlink.bc.ca> Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike
>Quigley) writes:
>>[...]
>>Didn't Ernst Toch write something like this? I think he did a piece called the
>>Geographical Fugue which had excerpts from a road map...

>The Geographical Fugue is a piece for six (if I remember correctly)
                                       four (standard SATB)
>voices, who recite (in German) the names of various geographical
>locations like "der Fluss Mississippi," Brindisi, etc.  It is entirely
>spoken, so the main musical elements are rhythm, counterpoint,
>dynamics, and form.

I have an LP which contains: "Fuge (aus?) der Geographie". It's a set
of two LPs from the Lockenhaus 1982 Festival which is organized by
Gidon Kraemer et.al. The B-side of the 2nd LP contains a lot of musical
jokes, the last of them is Toch's Fuge.

The best piece is "Meditation" (JSB & Gounod) played by Franz Xaver
Ohnesorg (Luftpumpe - bicycle pump?) and Oleg Maisenberg (Piano).
I do not understand how FXO was able to continue playing while the
audience was shaked from laughing (you understand my english?).

Werner
--
Werner Icking           icking@gmd.de            (+49 2241) 14-2443     __o
GMD - Gesellschaft fuer Mathematik und Datenverarbeitung mbH          _`\<,_
Schloss Birlinghoven, P.O.Box 1316, D-5205 Sankt Augustin, Germany   (_)/ (_)
                             "Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod." ~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ssyun@iso.ma.utexas.edu (SungSik Yun)
Subject: Question about BMG
Summary: Question about BMG's CD
Keywords: Question about BMG's CD
Organization: University of Texas at Austin Mathematics
Distribution: rec
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:02:56 GMT

Hi?
I am buying many classical CD from BMG Compact Disc Club.
Now I am thinking if the qualities of CD from BMG is different 
from others?
Do you have any info?
Thanks.

-- 

SungSik Yun---UT austin:Mathematics ||| E-mail:ssyun@math.utexas.edu
ph:(512)471-1242 (office)           |||        ssyun@cs.utexas.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Margaret Hillis to leave Chicago Symphony
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 15:35:09 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

According to an article in yesterday's San Francisco Examiner, Margaret
Hillis, the conductor of the Chicago Symphony Chorus, will be leaving at
the end of this season.  She has been the conductor of the chorus since she
started it in 1957. 

The search committee for her replacement has narrowed the field to 3
candidates:  Vance George, director of the San Francisco Symphony Chorus;
Robert Porco, head of the choral department at Indiana University; and Amy
Kaiser from New York.  

I've had the opportunity to sing under Vance, and I hear the SF Symphony
Chorus regularly.  As far as I'm concerned, losing him to Chicago would be 
worse for San Francisco than losing the Giants to Tampa Bay. 

Does anyone know anything about the other two candidates?  

BTW, I also had the opportunity to sing under Margaret Hillis, and she is
terrific.  And that voice!

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Who wrote "A Midsummer Night's Dream"?
From: srgcraf@grace.cri.nz (Ross A Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 05:38:54 GMT
Organization: Industrial Research Ltd

In article <199209300651.AA21344@tuna.wang.com> DAVID.CASHMORE@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("David Cashmore") writes:
>From: DAVID.CASHMORE@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("David Cashmore")
>Subject: Who wrote "A Midsummer Night's Dream"?
>Date: 30 Sep 92 02:45:26 EST
>I seem to remember hearing a version by Benjamin Britten one Sunday afternoon
>on Concert FM.  Isn't the famous wedding march (yes we had it at ours) from
>the Mendolsohn (SP also?) version?
>
>David

The march which brides come in to is Mendelssohn, i.e. anglicised to "Here 
Comes the Bride" but the one frequently used to leave the church is more 
likely to be the wedding march from Wagner's "Lohengrin."  I doubt if you 
heard a "version" by Benjamin Britten - you might have heard him conducting 
a performance.

Ross
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwh@visual. (Rob W. Holzel)
Subject: Re: Zander/Beethoven 9
Organization: Visual
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 18:47:11 GMT

>> Rob Brooks writes:
 
>> I recently read an interesting Gramophone review of the just-issued
>> recording of Beethoven's 9th with Benjamin Zander conducting the Boston
>> Philharmonic (a semi-professional Boston-based group, *not* the BSO).
>> Could anyone who has heard this recording please share their thoughts about
>> the tempi, playing, etc.

WCRB broadcast the CD one evening, and after hearing so much about it I
was eager to hear the performance itself.  I was struck at first by the
thinness of the orchestral sound, which I admit might have been affected
by the signal pickup on my tuner.  About the tempos I can speak only
about the Scherzo.  It certainly didn't work for me.

I couldn't stay to listen to the rest, but my understanding is that the
fourth movement is just as distractingly quick.

It would never suffice as the only performance of the work I own.  It's
more a curiosity than anything.


Rob
From: ucap22w@ucl.ac.uk (Martin S T Watts)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Piano touch
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:45:15 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium

dtt@mitisft.Convergent.COM (Duc Tran) writes:

>I like to ask anyone who play classical music well and have any comment of
>the touch of the upright versus the grand piano.

You needn't be particularly good at playing to know that there is a 
considerable difference in feel between grand and upright pianos, in 
general. I don't know too much about the technicalities of piano actions,
but that of a grand piano usually has a much greater inertia than an upright
and it's partly this that allows a greater dynamic range, since it's also
capable of a larger momentum. The design  and size though also allow much
richer sounds to be generated.

>I understand that most recording piano solo is recorded from the grand piano.
>And professional pianist uses grand piano for the tonality. I wonder whether
>an upright piano's touch is sufficient to interprete the music to the extend
>that the grand is capable of? (Besides the voice and some others.)

>I play some brand name grand pianos and see a difference but I don't know
>whether it helps in interpreting to the professional level.

Of course, the interpretation takes place in a performer's mind, and he can
have just as much fun on an upright piano as on a grand, but whether the
interpretation comes across so well is difficult to say since, as you point
out, you rarely here performances given on uprights. I imagine that it's a
bit like listening to historical recordings - once your ear becomes atuned
to the limitations, you hardly notice them. I'd be interested to know whether
any recordings have been made of mainstream repertoire on uprights. I don't
think even Glenn Gould tried that.

Martin Watts.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder)
Subject: Re: Karlheinz
Organization: Quake Public Access
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:14:17 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.210533.23041@menudo.uh.edu> chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU writes:

>(to rekindle a firestorm) was anybody else as sickened as I was by the
>*pathetic* John Cage "obituary" in this month's *Gramophone* (about 3
>paragraphs, barely mentioning his music, and making him sound like a clown).

Actually, it gives me new confidence in them.  At least they know a pretentious
clown when they see one.

--Brian

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Mahler 1
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:34:41 GMT

In article <2OCT199209173769@portal.lasc.lockheed.com> le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.022221.5496@cucs5.cs.cuhk.hk>, bmtong@cucs11.cs.cuhk.hk (Tong Bo-Ming) writes...

>  And what is Giulini doing these days?

Have a listen to his Bruckner 8th (DG, twelve CDs).

>
>Ron
From: danb@zx.qsp.UUCP (Daniel Benbenisty)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Beethoven Sonata 32
Date: 28 Sep 92 22:53:16 GMT
Organization: Quality Software Products, LA, CA

I am a Beethoven fanatic - a not uncommon creature.  I would like 
anyone's comments/insight on the following piece of music:

Beethoven's last piano sonata (32nd) has two movements, and the first 
half of the second movement is a set of 6 variations on a theme.  The 
last of these variations is what especially fascinates me, since it 
resembles to me a heavily syncopated, fast-swingin' jazz number more 
than anything else (except with B's compositional flair)!

I don't think that this style was reflected in the folk tunes of the era...
I mean, I've never heard anything like this from this period (1820's)
or any other period until late ragtime or early American Jazz...
Beethoven of course was way ahead of his time, and almost singly drove 
the music of his era to a new territory - but this is almost too cute!  
Can anyone clue me in?  From what sources B might have derived inspiration, 
or was this just a result of one of his original music forays?
Also, does anyone have any records as to how this piece (or this style,
if it existed as such) may have influenced later composers...

So, please fill me in on my historical gaps, or feel free to comment
in any way on this -

>>>===Pan-Handle-Dan===>	danb@qsp.com
Daniel Benbenisty		Guitarist for EARWURM		
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu (Bob Kosovsky)
Subject: Re: Recording Poulenc
Reply-To: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Organization: Computer Center, CUNY Graduate School, New York NY 10036
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 03:28:20 GMT

Chris Brewster wonders:
I (Bob Kosovsky) had written: 
>>   A friend of mine is the music editor at Dover ...
>>   In cases like the music by CPE Bach, Beethoven string quartets,
>>   Mozart symphonies, the editions they selected are GHASTLY.
>Do I assume that these choices were made before your friend arrived?
>What does he think about them?  Might they be changed?

No, most of Dover's music publications were made under his aegis.  Sure,
for aspiring musicians many Dover editions are far from exemplary (though
many of them reasonable, and some are quite good). 

The point is that Dover is out to make money.  The only way they can be 
assured of earning something is to reprint public domain editions.
If you want good editions that incorporate recent musicological editing
practices, ya gotta pay for it.

Bob Kosovsky
Graduate Center -- Ph.D. Program in Music(student)/ City University of New York
New York Public Library -- Music Division
bitnet:   kos@cunyvms1.bitnet        internet: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Disclaimer:  My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my institutions.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Mahler 1
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 01:40:05 GMT

In article <QH7QBXJN@cc.swarthmore.edu> enute1@cc.swarthmore.edu.cmccon1 (Daniel Gottlieb) writes:
>	I realize that this may open myself up to a deluge of replies, but I would
>like to hear about all the favorite recordings of Mahler 1 out there.  My
>personal favorite is the most recent Bernstein D.G. with the Concertgebow,
>but I've heard that the new Tenstett (spelling?) C.S.O. live recording on
>Angel/E.M.I. is just incredible.  Any advice?

I've not heard the new Tennstedt, I know it was the *one* symphony in
his complete cycle he wanted to remake. Frankly I've not been
convinced by any of his Mahler, although I've still to hear the 8th.

My personal favourite is also one of the cheapest: Kubelik, 1968. Just
listen to the way those strings bounce out at you in the coda, even
Bernstein doesn't get close to this.

Also recommended, although I've yet to see it in N. America, Wyn
Morris's 1972(?) recording of the 1893 5-movement version, which is
the *only* version Mahler actually called 'Titan'. The orchsetration
is quite startlingly different in places.

Is the original 1888 version still extant? I know of no recordings.
Beware of recordings, like Ozawa's, which include the abandoned
'Blumine' second movement into the final 1899 revision; this
represents no stage of Mahler's wishes. I have even seen recordings
(Fischer's on Hungaroton, and maybe Mehta's latest) which
disingenuously say something like
	Mahler Symphony No.1 (1888)
which is not actually *untrue*, but implies something which definitely
is.

I have maybe 20 versions of this, I still go back to Kubelik - which
is on a cheap DG reissue coupled with the Fahrenden Gesellen cycle,
Fischer-Dieskau/Boehm. Can't be beat.

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: bseymour@encore.com (Burch Seymour)
Subject: Cost of private voice lessons???
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:08:53 GMT

I'm curious about the average cost of private voice lessons.
If you are currently studying, or know the answer anyway, please e-mail
me with:

1) Cost per hour (or half hour, whatever)
2) How long a lesson is.
3) How often are your lessons.

I'll summarize to the net if it seems worthwhile.

Thanks,

-Burch Seymour- bseymour@encore.com
==================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: potoole@maths.tcd.ie (Peter O'Toole)
Subject: Re: Availability of Alkan Piano Scores
Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 13:14:34 GMT

In article <BvMto6.Ls8@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> kldawkin@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Kiwi) writes:
>Hello there. I am trying to get hold of Alkan's "Douze Etudes dans les
>tons mineurs Op.39" in piano score, preferably urtext editions...
>does anyone know if they are available? 
>
 
This ties in with the "scores are expensive" thread. Virtually all of
Alkan's music is published by a French ( Paris ) firm called Billaudot.
It is an exact reprint of the I.Phillip/M.Delaborde edition published
by Costallat (sp?) earlier this century. I don't have Billaudot's
address on me: mail me if you want it.  

I bought op.39 in London last year. It was in 2 volumes at about 20 pounds
sterling each! The edition is as urtext as you'll get; they even use the
old-fashioned typesettings and they have NOT corrected mistakes. Luckily
these ammount mostly to omitted accidentals. One major problem for me is
distinguishing between ties and slurs ( eg in op.35 no 2 ).

>I hope that with the renewed interest in Alkan's music 
>that seems to be on the rise, he'll get a bit of the fame he 
>justly deserves (even though he'd be turning
>in his grave if he knew that he was becoming famous!).
>
 
What do you mean here? I think he'd be quietly flattered, although
bitter that things took so long.

Peter O'Toole,
Trinity College Dublin.


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: kldawkin@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Kiwi)
Subject: Re: Beethoven's 32nd sonata
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 15:29:31 GMT

Listen... everybody is talking about Beethoven's music and how often
he gets quite jazzy... so I would like to add the finale to the
piano concerto #1 in C... one of the rondo episodes is rather interesting.

However, I have to point out although the last movement of Op.111 is
certainly jazzy in part, I think Schubert gets the award for the most
"forward-looking" rhythms... If you listen the the incomplete
Reliquie sonata, some of the do-wop rhythms in that will have you
rolling around on the floor! I always want to sing along to it:
doo, do doo doo wop, do do doo doo wop...

Cheers.

Kyle
   ,------------------------------.,---------------------------------.   \._,
  /   7   ,7  o             o     / kldawkins@cayley.waterloo.edu    /   < /
 /   /--<'   /   /  ,  /   /     / kldawkins@descartes.waterloo.edu /     ' 
/  -'    `--'`--'`-'`-'`--'`-   / kldawkins@orchid.waterloo.edu    /    /7 
`------------------------------'`---------------------------------'    //  NZ!
"Don't call me God. Call me Pope so I have something to aspire to."    '
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical