From: rassilon@infopls.chi.il.us (Michael Quintero)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: RE: CYBERHISTORY         
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 00:40:06 CDT
X-Maildoor: WaflineMail 1.00r

DSY (the Mad Yodeler of Charing Cross and all points west) sez:
>>>> Mike Quintero sez:
>>>  Ah!  But it has been made clear by both the Doctor and the Cyberleader
>>>that the conference that was to take place in 2526 was a prelude to the
>>>beginning of the 1st Cyberwar, in which, towards the end, VOga, the Planet ofd
>>>Gold, becomes involved.
>>>  Again, note the Cyberleader knows this Doctor as the Dr who mucked up their
>>>attempt to destroy the Planet of Gold.
>>>
>>Dave, pay attention to what you're saying and what everyone else is..
>
>>Fact: Revenge is definitely pre-Earthshock.  Ref: Clip from Revenge played
>>on Cyberscope.  Therefore the conference in 2526 was definitely not a prelude
>>to the Cyberwar referenced in Revenge.
>
>>Fact: There were (or will be) more than one Cyberwar. Ref: throwaway
>>statement referring to "a Cyber war" (emphasizing A, as in not the definite
>>article)  Therefore, the Revenge Cyberwar could possibly (or, in my opinion,
>>definitely) be a different one from the Earthshock Cyberwar.
>
>>Fact: The Cybermen have no real grasp of the concepts and mechanics of time
>>travel.  Ref: Most of "Attack".  Therefore, any Earth dates will correspond
>>to a Cyberman timeline, except in the cases of Attack and SIlver Nemesis
>>(see below)
>
>>I would love to know exactly where the Doctor and Cyberleader said that the
>>conference was a prelude to the Revenge Cyberwar.
>
>  Never argue with referee Rassilon.  Okay Michael, not that disagree with David
>  Banks, who indeed has done a good job as the Cyberleader, however there are a few
>  anomolies.  The cyberscope does refer to the Cybermen's event in their past, but
>  does it in ours? 
Of course it does, Dave.  It is CLEARLY STATED in "Attack" that THE CYBERMEN
HAVE NO GRASP OF TIME TRAVEL!  THEY HAD TO *STEAL* A TIME SHIP, DAVE!  
Therefore, our version of the continuum will be the same as ours.  (Sorry
for shouting, just don't know what came over me..... :-)

>  Mike, if you see Earthshock, part 4, the Doctor and the Cyberleader are referring
>  to the war in which the Cybermen would be badly outnumbered.  If it is the case
>  that Voga was a new moon of Jupiter in 2526, it would have been known.
Voga, as stated in "Revenge", had only been in orbit around Jupiter for a
short while at that point.  By 2526, it would have been old hat.  

My own, rather cynical theory is that after the Cyberman attack, the humans
which knew about Voga told Earth government.  Earth government loots and 
destroys Voga... fortunately for the Cybermen.  It IS possible
that the Cybermen just MIGHT have been outnumbered in two Cyberwars, Dave.
Anyway, the CyberLeader only said that "the forces would have been.. too 
great."  Not, "the forces were too great".

>  Also, addressing Iain point on Tomb, 2 references are made in Tomb : The Cybermen make
>  reference of knowing the Doctor from there Attack on the Moonbase, and the Doctor
>  refers to the Tombs as being 500 years in service. 
I've seen Tomb two or three times (I've got an excellent NTSC conversion of
it) and it only states that the Cybermen have been asleep for 500 years by
Klieg.  Now, one would think that Earth's government would try to cover up any
attacks by the Cybermen if at all possible.  So... perhaps Klieg was counting 
from 1986 AD, the MONDASian attack, placing it at circa 2486 AD.  Sorry to 
spoil your mutating of lost stories... it almost proved your point.

>  Also, for everyone, and sorry to spoil this, the Cybercontroller was fried in
>  Tomb, but was active in Attack.  Most baffling.

Attack: Dr.: But he (Cybercontroller) was killed in the Tombs.
	Cyberleader: Merely damaged... Doctor.

Pay attention, please.  

>> Theory about Silver Nemesis/Attack connection deleted.
> Just a note of logic: Attack vis-a-vis the Cybermen is post-Tomb.
Yes, HALF of it is.  The OTHER half is based on 1985 AD Earth courtesy of
the timeship they stole....  (How else are they going to relocate Halley's 
Comet?)

Mike Quintero ( rassilon@infopls.chi.il.us )                                                             
___
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