HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: etxjlar@eua.ericsson.se (Jorgen Larsson)
Subject: Re: mysterious runners deaths in Sweden
Reply-To: etxjlar@eua.ericsson.se
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 06:53:19 GMT

In article 92Nov15234914@doppel.first.gmd.de, wolf@doppel.first.gmd.de (Wolfgang Koehler) writes:
> 
> Under swedish orientieering runners (excuse me if its not the correct 
> translation, we call them in german 'Orientierungs-La"ufer') of the 
> national elite a number of mysterious heart attack deaths happened. 
> Within the last three years 7 of them died, 6 of them under 30 years.
> That seems to be remarkable rate, even if one 
> considers, that orienteering is quite popular in north european countries.
> The last of these deaths happened not long ago, while a sauna visit after a
> gentle training.  
> Now a group of medicians is up to investigate these deaths, they consider a 
> infection as a working hypothesis. 

These deaths have sure shocked the entire sport society in Sweden. 
After the last death last weak the orienteering association prohibited the 
entire swedish elite from any training or competition at all. 
All the victims of this strange disease have been male elite orienteerers, 
the last one (Melker Karlsson) among the very best in Sweden, and the World. 
After or during training their hearts have just stopped causing immediate death. 
The doctors have found some microorganism named TWAR in some of the victims and 
the theory is that they have been competing or traning with that infection in 
their bodies.

    NEVER TRAIN OR COMPETE IF YOU ARE HAVING AN INFECTION IN YOUR BODY

They have all also had in common that they have been competing or training within 
a small region in the center of Sweden. Yesterday reports came from Norway that 
they had had a similar death a year ago, and that guy had also been to that small 
Swedish region. Denmark as well reported two similar deaths yesterday but there 
was no more information about these cases.
Anyone ever heard of something similar outside Scandinavia?
I'll keep in touch when there's more information.
Be careful out there!

/Jrgen Larsson
From: keithb@advtech.uswest.com (Keith Bechard)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Plantar Facilitus (sp?)
Date: 16 Nov 92 14:20:19 GMT
Followup-To: rec.running
Organization: U S WEST/Advanced Technologies


Well, I started having a pain in my left arch and I knew that I was
probably experiencing Plantar Facilitus (sp?), PF for short.  A trip to the
doctor confirmed that.  He also told me what I expected him to say - rest
and anti-inflammatories.  Anti-inflammatories are no problem, but I'm not
real crazy about the rest part.  Anybody have any other tips on how to
eliminate this nagging injury??

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keith Bechard                  | "Some days you get the elevator and some
U S WEST/Advanced Technologies |  days you get the shaft."
keithb@advtech.uswest.com      |            John Gierach, Even Brook Trout
(303)678-7867                  |                          Get the Blues
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: michael@monitor.com (Michael Johnson)
Subject: Re: Jogger is killed when hunter mistakes him for a deer
Reply-To: michael@monitor.com (Michael Johnson)
Organization: Monitor Company / IE
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 22:47:06 GMT

In article <JQD=ml-@engin.umich.edu> lowrie@eddy.engin.umich.edu (Robert  
Byron Lowrie) writes:
> I'm guessing that this news has been given so much response because
> most of us abhor the idea of hunting, myself included.

Nope.  I have no major problem with people who hunt.

> had been killed by a drunk driver, I doubt we would have gotten such a
> response in this group.

I _hope_ you are incorrect on this point.  Drunk driving is just as  
reprehensible.

> accidents are bound to happen.  Mr. Cook should get no more punishment
> than a careless (NOT drunk or reckless) driver.

IMO, you are just plain wrong.  Someone with a gun should know _exactly_ what  
they are pointing at before they pull the trigger.  To do any less is the  
same as driving blindfolded, or drunk.  This is a case of manslaughter caused  
by _negligence_ because the reasonable precautions which should have  
prevented this tragedy were ignored.
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: positron@leland.Stanford.EDU (Anjen Chen)
Subject: photos of runners
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 01:32:38 GMT

just wondering whether some photos I see in pubs such as runner's world, etc.
are obtainable.  often I see that they belong to Allsport, whatever that is.
myself, looking for a good picture of elana meyer from the barcelona olympics.

-thanx,

-anjen

-- 
the problem:  stupidity
From: sjk@strl.labs.tek.com (Steven King)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Jogger is killed when hunter mistakes him for a deer
Date: 16 Nov 92 20:48:01 GMT
Reply-To: sjk@strl.labs.tek.com (Steven King)
Followup-To: rec.running
Distribution: na
Organization: Software Technology Research Lab, Tektronix, Inc.

In article <Bxo9u7.9oE@monitor.com>, michael@monitor.com (Michael Johnson) writes:
|> IMHO (and sorry to any hunters out there) these people are 100% guilty of  
|> manslaughter and should at least be convicted and receive a suspended  
|> sentence for their crime.  It is absolutely inexcusable to aim and shoot a  
|> gun at a moving object without positively identifying the target--that's what  
|> we call "negligence".  I'm sure the hunter feels incredibly bad about this,  
|> but that's too damn bad--he has committed a crime, and should pay his due.

As a runner and hunter, I agree.  The hunter should be held accountable in
some fashion.  In Oregon, if you accidently kill an out-of-season animal, your
license is revoked for some number of years.  Oregon has reciprocal agreements
with many western states, making it impossible for a hunter on probation to
hunt elsewhere.  Why they didn't take this person's license away for some
number of years (at the very least) is beyond comprehension.

I have never taken an animal that I could not 100% identify.  We hunt in
some extremely brushy Oregon coastal hills, with plenty of cattle and elk
roaming about.  There is not a deer season that I have come home without 
venison.  I just don't understand how a hunter could mistake a runner for 
a deer!

A note to runners: If you are running during game season, wear bright yellow,
orange, red and pink colors.  Avoid running on narrow, heavily wooded trails.
Remember that the average hunter would not mistake you for a game animal, but
bozos can purchase hunting licenses just like anyone else!

My $.02 worth,

Steven (sjk@strl.labs.tek.com)

"Sometimes if you have a cappuccino and then try again it will work OK."
(Dr. Brian Reid)  "Sometimes one cappuccino isn't enough." (Marcus Ranum)
"A double vanilla latte always works."  (Me)
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: lpc@dickens.com (Luis P Caamano)
Subject: Re: Anodyne/Skylon/Exult-?
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 23:20:40 GMT
Organization: Dickens Data Systems, Inc.

In article <By1Es5.yL@news.cso.uiuc.edu> hpzg0650@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Hale P Zengingonul) writes:
>Asics is pulling out its 'Gel' series from mail order companies as 
>Nike did with its 'Air' line.
>

Why?  I was wondering why I didn't see any Nikes in those mail order
catalogs, and now no Asics either?  

-- 
Luis P. Caamano                        |         lpc@dickens.com
Dickens Data Systems, Inc. Atlanta, GA |         uunet!dickens.com!lpc
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I think I know it all, I'll stop learning. -myself
The more I learn, the more I know I know nothing. -somebody else
From: graeme@castle.ed.ac.uk (G J Ackland)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Nike Any Good? (EXPLODING AIR POCKETS)
Date: 23 Nov 92 13:05:26 GMT
Distribution: na,world
Organization: Edinburgh University

Nike air *&%!# shoes do not get punctures.  This is the promise I always
extract from salespersons and appears to come from Nike.  Then, in the
unlikely event that they do, they go back to the shop and Nike send me a
new pair.  I like Nike, but the see through air thingy must be the worst
design ever - still, on average over several years I've got one free
pair for each one I've bought.  Do try it - perhaps if they get enough
sent back they'd make the design more sensible! 

                          Graeme
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam)
Subject: Re: Jogger is killed when hunter mistakes him for a deer
Reply-To: Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 22:42:33 GMT

In <1992Nov16.204430.5296@atlastele.com> dsmith@atlastele.com (Doug Smith) writes:

>I know little about guns and even less about hunting, but do people
>use shotguns to hunt deer with? 

Yes, they're very common.  Usually used with slugs or very
large shot, not the little birdshot you're probably
associating with shotguns.

>Don't you need to be close to
>your target when using a shotgun? 

Closer than with a rifle, certainly.  That's one reason
shotguns are used -- less likely to carry on a mile past
your target if you miss.

>Also, isn't it illegal to discharge
>a firearm across a road?

Most places it is illegal, but unfortunately there are
plenty of people who ignore such laws.

>The shooter is at least criminally negligent, and more likely is
>gun toting, crotch scratching, whiskey swilling in-bred hill
>billy who hangs out in the woods looking for 'runner-boys' with
>pretty mouths.

From what my brother tells me of elk season in Eastern
Washington, the biggest problem is young, gun-ignorant,
self-important yuppies from the cities of Western Washington
who can buy the biggest guns and fanciest trucks but
wouldn't know the difference bewteen a bull elk and a
guernsey without a reference manual.  They have no woods
sense, have almost no practice with their guns, and like to
set up generators in camp to run their stereos while getting
drunk at night.  If they aren't hunting drunk, they're
getting overexcited and shooting anything that moves.
Despite having no idea what they're doing, they have too
much ego to accept even the most well-intended advice from
more experienced hunters.  (They also have trouble with the
idea of my sister-in-law bowhunting, as if that was just a
macho male thing to do.)
-- 
 Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@happy-man.com
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: page@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Thomas Page)
Subject: Re: Nike Any Good? (was: Nike Air Pegasus vs. Air Anodyne)
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Distribution: na,world
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 17:41:45 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.181236.14186@eng.umd.edu>, gsurbeck@eng.umd.edu (Gregory D. Surbeck) writes:
|> A few years ago I ran a cross country season in Air Pegasus.  They
|> were okay but nothing phenomenal.  I switched to Asics and the Air
|> Pegasus just didn't compare.  I have watched the Pegasus's prices go
|> up and up and they just can't compete with shoes in a similar price
|> range.  I have a friend who's Airs blew out (not Pegasus) and she
|> can't afford to get another pair of shoes so she has to swim (perish
|> the thought)!  
|> 

I was under the impression that Nike unconditionally guaranteed the air units.
Your friend should just return them to the store where she bought them.
Tom
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: smay@boi.hp.com (Scott Smay)
Subject: Re: Anodyne/Skylon/Exult-?
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:38:54 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Howard Black (cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu) wrote:
: In article <1992Nov21.232040.29400@dickens.com> lpc@dickens.com (Luis P Caamano) writes:
: >In article <By1Es5.yL@news.cso.uiuc.edu> hpzg0650@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Hale P Zengingonul) writes:
: >>Asics is pulling out its 'Gel' series from mail order companies as 
: >>Nike did with its 'Air' line.
: >>
: >
: >Why?  I was wondering why I didn't see any Nikes in those mail order
: >catalogs, and now no Asics either?  
: 
:     For Asics (and I assume for Nike as well) the company line is that
: their high-tech shoes require the personal services of a knowledgable
: salesperson to make sure you get the exact right shoe for you.

Even if true, the advice I've had over the phone from Rad Runner etal is
much more knowledgable than I get from the high school football players
who work in the shoe stores that carry these high tech shoes.

Asics? What are those? They're not in the Road Runner catalog, so they must
not be too good.

scott
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: zeppo@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: RE: Open season on runners (jogger is killed)
Date: 15 Nov 92 15:33:07 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

As to the hunter's responsibility in the shooting, a hunting
license does not give the hunter the right to shoot blindly
at anything that moves. His license is a priviledge granted
with the understanding that he will act responsibly while
hunting and (as a local hunting group says here) LOOK BEFORE
YOU SHOOT! 
	While I don't promote running in an area that is being
hunted, runners have every right to be in the woods (just as
much as the hunters). I myself have had a couple of run-ins with
hunters telling me where I shouldn't run. I had run through the
same trails all summer and suddenly these guys show up in the fall
for a couple of weeks/year and tell me to go run somewhere else!
The only time these guys had been to these woods was with their
guns in hopes of killing something (anything?). Because I don't
trust my life to idiots like them, I ran elsewhere.
	I guess it comes down to: you have every right to be there,
but do you really WANT to be there?


Be careful out there!

ZEPPO
<aka Steve LeBlanc   Dalhousie University   >
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: jcs@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (john.c.schwebel)
Subject: Re: Open season on runners (jogger is killed)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 03:44:07 GMT
Summary: Blaming the Victim

In article <BxtFFF.Bu6@da_vinci.it.uswc.uswest.com> rayman@lookout.it.uswc.uswest.com (Raymond Goure) writes:
>
>
>....In Colorado it is illegal to be in a state hunting area
>during big game season without 500 sqr inches
>of blaze orange on the upper body, and wear a blaze orange hat...
>I run 50 mile weeks out of the Denver downtown area and am keenly
>aware of the traffic laws, thus keeping safe in an area of great harm.
>Be aware of your surroundings and we won't have to suffer another lose.

This is a classic example of BLAMING THE VICTIM.

Don't you think the hunter deserves blame?
Don't you think the prey should be identified before shooting?

Newsgroups: rec.running
From: pascoe@rocky.gte.com (Dave Pascoe)
Subject: Type of gloves?
Organization: GTE/MSED - Needham Heights, MA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:25:10 GMT

I've just started getting back into running and, as we're starting to
enter winter here in New England, find that I need gloves for running.

I'd just be interested to hear what kinds of gloves other runners like
to use.

--
Dave Pascoe
Internet: pascoe@rocky.gte.com
From: isler@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (L. Rosanne M. Adderley)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: jogging in London
Date: 20 Nov 92 09:49:30 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

For those of you who may remember, I am the "jogger with dumb questions"
and I have returned!  I have had a really hard time getting going again,
and have not been successful in my attempt to reach a program of 5-6miles
four or five times a week.  In recent months I have been fairly consistent
at 2 1/2 miles, at least three times a week, but every time I feel ready
to work on increasing that I either
a) wimp out as the lazy person I probably am at heart
b) allow grad school to interrupt my program for just long enough for me
to feel out of shape again
c) remember that it's fall, and convincing myself to go outside is a real
challenge--although jogging in the cooler temps is actually quite pleasant
At any rate, I'm not really posting to babble about habits.

Beginning in January, I will be spending 5 months in London on a research
trip.  I am seeking advice on issues pertinent to the casual jogger.

How safe is it to jog in the streets, even at dusk, dawn, evenings?  My
experience here in Philadelphia has been that even a stranger can pretty
quickly figure out a safe route.  Since I won't have much "figuring out
time" in London I would appreciate any advice.

Are there parks that are noticeable popular with joggers and/or more 
serious runners?  Again, in Philadelphia I quickly discovered an area
in the enormous Fairmount Park where there are almost always joggers in
the evening.  I found this fun and somewhat motivating.

Anything else you think a casual jogger should know would be welcome.

many thanks.  

please respond to   isler@eniac.seas.upenn.edu


rosanne adderley
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: rogge@iastate.edu (Thomas R Rogge)
Subject: Redland or Redwood Marathon
Summary: Does anyone know the location and dates of the Redwood or Redlands
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:49:51 GMT


-- 
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: mcconnel@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Terry R. McConnell)
Subject: Re: Jogger is killed when hunter mistakes him for a deer
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 15:04:11 EST

In article <JQD=ml-@engin.umich.edu> lowrie@eddy.engin.umich.edu (Robert Byron Lowrie) writes:
  [ discussion of recent event in which jogger is shot by hunter ]

>To prevent this from occurring again, we shouldn't worry so much about
>punishing Mr. Cook, but instead concentrate on keeping the general
>public away from hunting areas.  If this means there should be less
>hunting areas, so be it.  I can't imagine being in an area where my
>life is in so many other people's hands.  In other words, let hunters
>shoot each other, but not me (: Unfortunately, an argument I often
>here is that much of the money used to set aside public lands comes
>from hunters (through license fees, taxes, ...), although I find this
>hard to believe.

I have no problem with people being allowed to hunt a few weeks out of
the year on remote public lands or other designated areas. I enjoy 
running on trails and back roads, but am willing to stay out of the
way for a time to let others enjoy the outdoors in their own way. 

I do have a problem with hunting in suburban and semi-rural areas such
as my own. It is unfortunately not uncommon for hunters to fire across
public highways, within 500 feet of dwellings, after dusk, before dawn,
and during periods of near zero visibility. There were even two cases
last year here in central New York of people being injured by stray
bullets in their own homes! Because of incidents like these I have
gradually abondoned running on secondary roads during deer-hunting
season. I now drive into the city or head for a track (preferably
indoors at this time of year.)

If you must run on country roads during deer-hunting season, especially
in areas where high-powered rifles are allowed, I urge you to wear
bright colored clothing and to run only in broad daylight. 

***********************************************************************
Terry McConnell           (315)443-1481  Dept. Office: (315)443-1471
Math Dept/Syracuse University	         mcconnel@rodan.acs.syr.edu
215 Carnegie/Syracuse,NY 13244-1150      tmc@barnyard.syr.edu
************************************************************************
-- 
***********************************************************************
Terry McConnell           (315)443-1481  Dept. Office: (315)443-1471
Math Dept/Syracuse University	         mcconnel@rodan.acs.syr.edu
215 Carnegie/Syracuse,NY 13244-1150      tmc@barnyard.syr.edu
From: lawrence@studsys.mscs.mu.edu (peter r lawrence    )
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Nike Any Good? (was: Nike Air Pegasus vs. Air Anodyne)
Date: 21 Nov 1992 06:35:36 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Department MSCS
Distribution: na,world
NNTP-Posting-Host: studsys.mscs.mu.edu

Nike?  what is that?  I haven't seen a pair of those in years!!!
You said your toes were crushed, I have the same prob sometimes.
Try Saucony -- They are the best!  Far and away better than any Nike!
			pete
From: lawrence@studsys.mscs.mu.edu (peter r lawrence    )
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Anyone use Brooks Hydroflow
Date: 23 Nov 1992 18:37:51 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Department MSCS
NNTP-Posting-Host: studsys.mscs.mu.edu

In article <bond.722541019@regulus.sce.carleton.ca> bond@sce.carleton.ca (Greg Bond) writes:
>pairs have utilized the Hydroflow system. One of the shoes in the
>first pair blew a Hydroflow sac after no more than 100km. However,
>Brooks replaced them with the next year's model free of charge. I've
>put upwards of 700km on the new pair now and no sac blowout is
>apparent. I find them to be a really sturdy, comfortable training
>shoe. I'm beginning to get the impression that they've lost enough of
>their cushioning at this point to warrant purchasing a new pair of
>shoes. Does anyone have any feelings about whether 700km is a
>reasonable distance for replacement? It seems a little soon to me but
>perhaps this is the norm...
>
>--
Generally, shoes are supposed to last about 500-700 miles (800 - 1100? km).
I usually use mine for about 700 miles -- anything over that and I always
start to get nagging injuries.  It depends on the runner and the shoe tho.
Some need to get new shoes early and some keep them much longer than myself.
As far as the shoe goes, if you have a "lite" shoe of some sort, they
usually break down quicker.   Likewise if you run in mud/rain alot.
	Hope this helps a little.
			pete


Newsgroups: rec.running
From: prom@src.honeywell.com (Greg Prom)
Subject: Re: jogging in London
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:49:45 GMT


In article <98492@netnews.upenn.edu> isler@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (L. Rosanne M. Adderley) writes:

>> Beginning in January, I will be spending 5 months in London on a research
>> trip.  I am seeking advice on issues pertinent to the casual jogger.

>> How safe is it to jog in the streets, even at dusk, dawn, evenings?  My

>> Are there parks that are noticeable popular with joggers and/or more 
>> serious runners?  Again, in Philadelphia I quickly discovered an area

A few years ago I vacationed in London for a week. We were staying just a
couple of blocks from Kensington and Hyde Parks and I ran their daily.
There were a lot of other runners using the paths there also. It looked
reasonably safe during the daylight hours (usually early morning) when I
ran.

   prom@src.honeywell.com (Greg Prom)
   Honeywell Systems & Research Center 
   Minneapolis, MN
   
-- 
   prom@src.honeywell.com (Greg Prom)
   Honeywell Systems & Research Center 
   Minneapolis, MN
   
Newsgroups: rec.running