HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: PYGMY Forth
Date: 22 Nov 92 21:04:43 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

Category 7,  Topic 22
Message 123       Sat Nov 21, 1992
B.RODRIGUEZ2 [Brad]          at 11:48 EST
 
Jeffery: probably you can get Pygmy 1.4 by sending a blank 5.25" disk and a
self-addressed, stamped return diskette mailer to the author:
   Frank Sergeant
   809 W. San Antonio St.
   San Marcos, TX  78666  USA

Or, as custodian of our local FIG chapter library, I'd be willing to oblige --
on the same terms, of course (you send disk & postage):
   Brad Rodriguez
   221 King St. E., #32
   Hamilton, ON  L8N 1B5  Canada

Brad Rodriguez
 B.RODRIGUEZ2 on GEnie   |   bradford@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca
 So many projects....so little time.

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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: From the xCFB's / ForthNet
Date: 22 Nov 92 21:04:51 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

Category 14,  Topic 2
Message 63        Sat Nov 21, 1992
ELLIOTT.C                    at 10:23 EST
 
 -----via CRS Premium Bulletin Board -
 USR 16.8K Dual Standard  (416) 629-7000

 Date: 11-20-92 (04:00)
   To: JACK WOEHR
 From: RAY DUNCAN
 Subj: XCFB'S

    >incidentally, Ray may have started the xCFB net...

 No, that credit belongs to Jerry.  The concept of networking the
 various Forth boards was entirely his, as far as I know, and he
 helped us out enormously when we decided to join the ForthNet --
 first by convincing us to switch from RBBS to PC-BOARD, and then
 through the various aggravations of getting NetMail working.

 We've been running our LMI Forth BBS continuously since late
 1984, with only a few days of downtime during that 8-year period,
 so we've been in this racket a long time, but we certainly
 weren't the first Forth BBS. There was a very crude Apple-based
 BBS called the FIG-TREE in the Silicon Valley area at least a
 couple years earlier, and of course Creative Solutions had their
 ForthNet on CompuServe as well. ---

  * The GrapeVine/Ferret Face BBS * NLR,ARK * 501-753-8121 DS *
  * PostLink(tm) v1.03  GRAPEVINE (#318) : RelayNet(tm) Hub

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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: PYGMY Forth
Date: 22 Nov 92 21:04:46 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

Category 7,  Topic 22
Message 124       Sat Nov 21, 1992
F.SERGEANT [Frank]           at 18:32 EST
 
     To Ian Watters
   Date 14 Nov 92
     Thanks for your email note (I received it today).  I'll look forward  to
your disk/letter/etc around Christmas.  Are you reachable by bitnet or 
internet?  I am available via bitnet as  fs07675@swtexas and, I think,  maybe,
via internet by something like fs07675%swt.decnet@relay.the.net.
  -- Frank
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Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: mikc@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mike Coughlin)
Subject: Re: No CONSTANT in eforth??
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:17:50 GMT

In article <1dnu46INN3ah@minnie.informatik.uni-kiel.dbp.de> uho@informatik.uni-kiel.dbp.de (Ulrich Hoffmann) writes:
>
>How can anyone be productive with eFORTH without these features?!
 [constant, vocabulary, does>]
>Just wondering,
>                Ulrich
>
    Why do people assume that eFORTH is a "complete" system? No Forth 
implemtation is complete, and eFORTH is just less complete than most.
Some versions of Forth have a lot of words, but only work on one computer.
eFORTH has very few words but has been ported to several computers. There
is a difference in purpose. 
    Those who want a larger version of eFORTH should be sure to publish
their additions and should find a way to edit everything so all versions
will be the same. Easier said than done.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Wanted .. CASE,OF,ENDOF,ENDCASE
From: mentink@wronz.org.nz
Date: 24 Nov 92 10:18:57 +1300



	Can anyone help with source ( masm/forth) to the CASE statement
	word set. I.E .... CASE OF ENDOF ENDCASE ....

	Thanks in advance.


	Bernie Mentink   ( Christchurch N.Z. )
	email: mentink@wronz.org.nz

	.... Some things have to be seen to be believed,
     	     Most things have to be believed to be seen ....
From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Searching For Connections
Date: 16 Nov 92 11:43:27 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

Category 14,  Topic 12
Message 24        Sun Nov 15, 1992
ELLIOTT.C                    at 10:52 EST
 
 -----via CRS Premium Bulletin Board -
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 Date: 11-11-92 (22:00)
   To: ALL
 From: IRVE TOWERS
 Subj: NOW ECHOING

 The Hub bbs in Arlington, Va. is pleased to be carrying this
 conference via RIME(tm). ---
  * The Hub bbs (703) 685-0019 HST
  * PostLink(tm) v1.03  THEHUB (#319) : RelayNet(tm) HUB


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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: PYGMY Forth
Date: 22 Nov 92 21:04:41 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

Category 7,  Topic 22
Message 122       Fri Nov 20, 1992
L.SQUARED                    at 23:57 EST
 
  Following some of Frank's patterns, I wish to offer the following suggestion
for standardizing screen usage:

        0 Program Description
        1 Development Environment LOAD screen
        2 Screen Directory or Index
        3 Optional utilities, LOADs, or change record
        4    ditto
        5 Target LOAD screen

  Any comments from the community?

                                             - L. Greg Lisle -
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: PYGMY Forth
Date: 22 Nov 92 21:04:48 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

Category 7,  Topic 22
Message 125       Sat Nov 21, 1992
F.SERGEANT [Frank]           at 20:31 EST
 
  No, No!  Do NOT send me a blank disk, etc. for a copy of Pygmy 1.4! Send it
to Brad, per his recent posting, or order a disk from FIG
   Forth Interest Group        (510) 89-FORTH (voice)
   P.O. Box 2154               (510) 535-1295 (FAX)
   Oakland, CA  94621
 or download via anonymous ftp (if you can find it).  Or, send me  a
contribution of at least $15 (in North America, more if outside North 
America) in US dollars, and I will send you the bonus disk, which among  other
things will include Pygmy 1.4.
  -- Frank Sergeant
     809 W. San Antonio St.
     San Marcos, TX  78666
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: PYGMY Forth
Date: 22 Nov 92 21:04:38 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

Category 7,  Topic 22
Message 121       Fri Nov 20, 1992
ELLIOTT.C                    at 16:03 EST
 
 -----via CRS Premium Bulletin Board -
 USR 16.8K Dual Standard  (416) 629-7000
 Date: 11-19-92 (11:00)
   To: ALL
 From: JEFFERY WOOD
 Subj: Pygmy Forth 1.4

 Anyone know where I can find a copy of the latest version of
 Pygmy Forth (version 1.4)?  I don't have a Genie account so I
 need to find another way.  Thanks in advance.

                        Jeffery
 ---
    SLMR 2.1a   This is your CPU - - This is yor CPU on Windows  
  !@#$%@)@*  
  * Blue Lake System West Linn Oregon 503-656-9790 v.32bis 4.5 Gig
  * PostLink(tm) v1.03  BLUELAKE (#433) : RelayNet(tm) Regional
 Hub  

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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Files on-line
Date: 22 Nov 92 21:04:33 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

Category 1,  Topic 3
Message 172       Fri Nov 20, 1992
ELLIOTT.C                    at 14:39 EST
 
 *********************NEW FILE *******************
 Number: 2679  Name: FB0492.ARC
 Address: ELLIOTT.C                Date: 921119
 Approximate # of bytes: 124800
 Number of Accesses: 0  Library: 8
 Description:
 Messages - disussion of the future of FIG, Forth Dimensions,
 ANS-FIG cooperation ...   January 1992 - April 1992.
 Keywords: FIG,Forth Dimensions,GEnie,ANS
  ---------------------------------



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Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: antero@csr.UVic.CA (Antero Taivalsaari)
Subject: re: Experimental ideas (interactive control structures)
Originator: antero@csr
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 22:57:50 GMT

>Category 3,  Topic 5
>Message 78        Fri Nov 13, 1992
>ELLIOTT.C                    at 16:08 EST
> 
> -----via CRS Premium Bulletin Board - USR Dual Standard 16.8K
> (416) 629-7000
> Date: 11-06-92 (09:00)
>   To: ALL
> From: MARCEL HENDRIX
> Subj: INTERPRETER

> At EuroForth '92 Christophe Lavarenne (`FreeForth') proposed to
> get rid of the Forth interpreter altogether and use a "compile
> buffer" (my interpretation). The idea, which has also been
> proposed by Mitch Bradley and John Hayes (among others), is to
> compile each line typed by the user into a nameless colon
> definition, execute that code and forget it again.
>
> The idea certainly has its advantages. The most obvious one is
> that constructs like IF and LOOP can now be typed at the
> keyboard.

My Kevo system, which is available by anonymous FTP from 
'ursamajor.uvic.ca' (128.88.189.151), directory '/ursa/kevo',
uses this kind of an approach. Personally, after using the
idea for years now, I would no longer accept any Forth which 
does not allow me to use control structures similarly in both
interactive state and within colon definitions.

-- Antero Taivalsaari
   antero@cs.uvic.ca
   antero@cs.jyu.fi
From:  (Randolph M. Peters)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Pocket Forth: question about doer/make and interpret
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:17:53 GMT
Followup-To: comp.lang.forth
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


I am a very satisfied pocket forth user (many thanks to its creator for a
shareware product that is well thought out and enjoyable to use), but I am
having some difficulties with two problems. 

     First, I've been trying to create a doer/make construct similar to
that described in the book THINKING FORTH (a truly excellent book for both
programming in general and the forth paradigm in particular). The
obstacles? Well, the alternative code samples (F-83, figForth, etc models)
provided make some assumptions about compilation. Pocket Forth code is
compiled directly to machine language, so words inside a colon definition
are not compiled as addresses (which are taken off in sequence by an
address interpreter) but rather directly as machine language JSR routines.
I am unsure how the return stack is supposed to operate in Pocket Forth if
this is the case. Additionally, there seems to be no easy way to obtain the
pfa of a word  (ie, no body> or pfa> command). 

     The second problem involves invoking the standard command interpret
(which is supposed to begin interpreting the contents of the text input
buffer). When I create a word which EXPECTs a line of text into the TIB and
then INTERPRETs it,  it seems to start interpretation partway through the
buffer. There is no user variable provided for IN> (marking the position in
the input stream). Now, according to the glossary provided with the
software, the token "{cr}" (ie, the token consisting of an ascii 13) will
reset the return stack and the input stream. But there's no way to generate
this token, since cr's are intercepted by the event handler. I thought I'd
be able to find the cfa of this token by searching for a pascal-style
string consisting of a 1 in the length byte and ascii 13 in the second
byte, but this doesn't work. 

     Again, I greatly enjoy using Pocket Forth and would strongly recommend
it to anyone thinking of using Forth on the Mac. It's a great learning
tool. However, I would appreciate any tips on these two problems. I don't
have an e-mail address, so please post answers to this net. I believe that
a discussion of these problems could be informative to most forthers since
there seems to be a dearth of sample code on this newsnet at present.

THanks in advance for your help, 

                                     Randolph M. Peters
                                     Medical Clinic, Suite C, 
                                     3rd floor Silverstein Building
                                     Hospital of the University of PA
                                     34th and Spruce Streets, 
                                     Phila, PA 19104
Newsgroups: comp.lang.visual
From: dek2@cec2.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Dean E Kassmann)
Subject: Visual Basic
Keywords: Microsoft,programming, Windows, Basic
Organization: Washington University, School of Engineering, St. Louis MO
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 10:46:34 GMT

I am new to this group and am checking to see if the topic of Visual Basic
is ok to be discussed here.  Please let me know either way. 


                        
-- 
Dean Kassmann            |
 dek2@wucec1.wustl.edu   |  
--  The other night I was lying in bed, looking up at the stars, and  --
           I wondered, "Where the FUCK is my ROOF ?!?"
From: mlindholm@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: comp.lang.visual
Subject: VL conferences in winter 1993-94?
Date: 20 Nov 92 14:37:27 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

Is there going to be any visual language conferences held in winter 1993-94?

Mikko Lindholm
mlindholm@cc.helsinki.fi
From: tmb@arolla.idiap.ch (Thomas M. Breuel)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: how to advocate new software/hardware features (Re: Hardware Support for Numeric Algorithms)
Followup-To: comp.lang.misc
Date: 18 Nov 92 18:45:15
Organization: IDIAP (Institut Dalle Molle d'Intelligence Artificielle
	Perceptive)
	<TMB.92Nov16140138@arolla.idiap.ch> <BxtFoF.BGn@mentor.cc.pur
	<KERS.92Nov17090305@cdollin.hpl.hp.com>
Reply-To: tmb@idiap.ch
NNTP-Posting-Host: arolla.idiap.ch
In-reply-to: kers@hplb.hpl.hp.com's message of 17 Nov 92 09:03:05 GMT

In article <KERS.92Nov17090305@cdollin.hpl.hp.com> kers@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Chris Dollin) writes:

   In article ... tmb@arolla.idiap.ch (Thomas M. Breuel) writes:

      The problem is that user-defined operators cause problems about which
      the compiler cannot warn reliably. For the rationale and some examples
      of what can go wrong, see the ARM, p331.

   It says ``This extension, however, would imply a significant extension of
   complexity of syntax analysis and an uncertain gain in readability.'' It then
   remarks that precedence and associativity must either be fixed for all
   user-defined operators, or a mechanism must be present to define them; it is
   this latter that is the tricky point. (The ``complexity of syntax analysis''
   argument seems to be terribly weak, given that (a) Stroustrup is not stupid,
   and (b) the rest of C++.)

It goes on to give several examples that behave rather unexpectedly.
Also, I think by "complexity" he means "difficulty of bringing the
user's expectations in line with what the language actually does",
rather than speed.

   There are many other things compilers cannot warn about reliably, or indeed, at all;

So, let's not increase the number of cases in which this can happen.

   writing ``-'' when one meant ``+'', forgetting to increment a counter,
   calling the wrong function (or not calling the right one), writing ``0'' when
   style demands FALSE or NULL_String, and so on. Has anyone done some *research*
   on the issue, rather than making *-informed speculation?

That's a question of psychology and taste. I don't think I have
speculated (informedly or uninformedly) about your tastes in
particular. But I think it is fair to point out that the fact that
modern programming languages severely limit user-defined syntactic
extensions is probably a reflection of common needs and tastes.

					Thomas.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
From: ian@syacus.acus.oz.au (Ian Joyner)
Subject: Re: Pointers
Organization: ACUS Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Sydney
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 11:52:30 GMT

nevin@apple.com (Nevin ":-]" Liber) writes:

>In article <TMB.92Nov19002135@arolla.idiap.ch>, tmb@arolla.idiap.ch (Thomas
>M. Breuel) wrote:

>> C's
>> lack (in fact, intolerance) of runtime typing and array bounds
>> checking, on the other hand, mean that hardware designers these days
>> seem to make little effort to support such features,

>I don't see anything wrong with getting rid of features that people aren't
>using.  If those features were popular, C probably wouldn't be as popular
>as it is today.  We have lots of CISC archetectures with cool features that
>very few people ever find useful.  Why waste the silicon?

Firstly, I agree that we should have very regular instruction set computers
(RISC). However, building bounds checking into silicon while being
something that is not essential is highly desirable. I make this comment
against the background that silicon (gallium arsenide) if you like is
getting cheaper and more powerful, whereas software development is getting
more complex, and very expensive.

Unfortunately these days, not many people have had experience developing
software for machines that have such inbuilt semantics checks. However, I
can assure you that it makes tracking down errors much easier, as the
program is terminated straight away, with a specific error in a specific
line of the program. Thus most bugs are found during development before
software is shipped to customers. So better quality software is produced.

That is why you would waste silicon. To get a bit philosophical, why do
we have computers anyway? The answer is because people are important.
They are more important than computers. So it is better to waste a computers
time than a persons time. The whole argument of processor efficiency comes
from the misguided philosophy that computers are more important than people.
It is true that in the past they were very expensive. But now they are cheap,
so why do we persist with this old assumption.

Having hardware that does not have bounds checking is rather like having
a car that has no brakes.

>It's simply a feedback loop.  I much prefer it to having hardware and
>software people totally oblivious to each other.

Close. I would not say "totally oblivious", but "mutually independent". This
does not happen by accident though, but by careful design. Unfortunately,
this C/hardware combination is making hardware and software "mutually
dependent", and we will pay the price for this mistake in the long term.
-- 
Ian Joyner  ACUS (Australian Centre for Unisys Software)    ian@syacus.acus.oz
"Where is the man with all the great directions?...You can't imagine it,
 how hard it is to grow, Can you imagine the order of the universe?" ABWH
Disclaimer:Opinions and comments are personal.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
From: Darren New <dnew@thumper.bellcore.com>
Subject: Re: Syntax and expressiveness (Re: Accessing the hardware directly
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 02:45:45 GMT


> >	c{'z} ={tc} {-}{|}{ta} a{'x} OP{mod} {|}{tb} b{'y} {/\{~}w}
> >	  1     2    3  4   5     6  7   8    9  10    11   12 13

    This situation is far from the impossible. 

I have already done this for Herman, several years ago, using a macro
interpreter I wrote called LOME.
When I sent him the results, along with the source of the interpreter,
he completely failed to answer me. The next time he posted this problem,
I said "I already answered that" via email, and he replied "I didn't
understand".

So the answer is that he wants it exactly his way but doesn't seem to
want to learn how to use what's out there to get that.  While I
sympathise with some of his points, this macro-bashing bit is getting a
bit old.
From: mbk@poincare.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: languages which allow the introduction of new operators
Date: 22 Nov 92 21:31:14 GMT
Organization: Institute For Nonlinear Science, UCSD
NNTP-Posting-Host: poincare.ucsd.edu
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
: In article <722322705@sheol.UUCP> throopw@sheol.UUCP (Wayne Throop) writes:
: 
: 			...................
: 
:                   e can communicate binary integers across machines
: >: and implementations; the much used notation 0ddddd for octal and
: >: 0xdddddddd for hexadecimal, bad as they are, do this explicitly.
: >
: >So, what does this have to do with the semantic model of the language?
: >What prevents one from converting the floats to binary representation
: >in ascii, transmitting that, reading the result, and doing the
: >inverse conversion?
: 
: This will not do the job.   The binary representations of floats on
: CRAYs, CYBERs, VAXen, RS/6000s, etc., are all different.  Also, these
: are only the representations of floats within the precision of the
: machine.  In addition, there is NO remotely standard fixed-point 
: binary representation of non-integers which can be communicated.

Most digital computers have binary floating point, so
some number like

+/- B1 * 2^(B2),

with b1 a number between 0 and 1 expressed as a binary fraction,
and b2 an integer ought to do the trick.  It is proabably very
ugly, but isn't this the right idea?

In the "fortran E exponent model" (from 1959 or so!)

1000101110010 B 0010101010

: -- 
: Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
: Phone: (317)494-6054
: hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
: {purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)

--
-Matt Kennel  		mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu
-Institute for Nonlinear Science, University of California, San Diego
-*** AD: Archive for nonlinear dynamics papers & programs: FTP to
-***     lyapunov.ucsd.edu, username "anonymous".
Xref: sparky comp.lang.misc:3763 comp.lang.c:16732