From: julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas)
Subject: Re: Not sour enough!
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:29:19 GMT

In article <By6pGz.KoA@fc.sde.hp.com> fritz@fc.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz) writes:
>Julie Kangas (julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov) wrote:
>: One other thing, in your first post you mentioned a 'froth'.  When
>: proofing, the culture should go through a stage when it's very
>: puffy and bubbly (this is when mine tries to set up a puppet
>: government in the kitchen).  It then subsides leaving a few
>: bubbles on top (but still puffy inside).  
>
>Really?  I thought it was GOOD that it was still going nuts after
>13 hours.

Yes it's probably good but the way I understand it is that once
it subsides it's got the maximum amount of active yeast and 
lactobacilli in it.  Before it subsides, neither the yeast nor
the lactobacilli have reached their maximum population.  After
it subsides, the yeast begin to run out of food and start to
sporulate.  I think the lactobacilli keep on going though.

When I let my culture go a long time I always take out a cup
after about 10 hours (the 'normal' time for the Russian culture
to proof).  I think the sugar I add later to the bread revives
the yeast enough to raise the bread.

>
>: Usually, the culture 
>: is used at this stage.  If you use it before it will probably rise
>: ok but won't be as sour as it could be.   If you use it later
>: the yeast may not be as active but it will be more sour.  
>
>Hm.  Makes it sorta tough to schedule things if you don't know when
>the sponge is going to settle down.  As it was I was tied to the house
>until 5pm yesterday.  (Partly my fault, since I'd run out of flour
>when restarting the start the night before and couldn't make the dough
>until 11am, but still...)

I usually start mine on a Friday night when I know I won't be very
busy over the weekend.  Anyway, a few hours (or even several) probably
won't be too bad (unless you're trying to get things more sour).  
This is homemade bread here -- we're not expected to get the same
results each time.  Relax -- don't worry -- have a home-made 
sourdough loaf :)

>Out of curiosity, I tried tasting the frothy sponge.  It was VERY tart.
>I figured the lactobacilli were going nuts along with the yeast, and
>I was surprised when it turned out so mild.  I guess adding all the
>flour & etc to make the dough diluted the sour, and it didn't get
>much of a chance to recover while it was rising (~4+ hours).

How much sugar did you use? (I don't remember what you said)  Sugar 
will definitely mask the taste of the sourness.  I know Wood's 
'world bread' recipe has sugar but not enough to mask the sourness.
The recipe he has for black bread will mask most if not all of the
sourness however.

>
>: I've let mine go for over 24 hours (at a low temperature though) and still
>: had bread that rose very well and had a *most* sour taste. 
>
>I assume the 24hrs was the sponge/culture stage, and then you fed it more
>flour &etc to wake it up and get it to rise?

I follow Wood's procedure.  2 1/2 hours to prepare the culture.  Then
add more flour and water and proof for 10 hours and up.  I don't watch
the clock too much anymore with it.  (I've occasionally 'walked-in' on
it while it was in it's puffy mode.  I just discretely shut the
oven door and quietly walk away.)  Then I mix in everything else and 
let it rise for 2 hours or so.

I'll admit that sometimes it doesn't work out very well for me.  It
will be late at night and I realize 'oh my gosh, my starter's gone
24 hrs and it might die if I go to bed now!'.  Making bread at 10pm
can be an experience -- one that I never want to happen during the
work week.

Julie
DISCLAIMER:  All opinions here belong to my cat and no one else


Julie
DISCLAIMER:  All opinions here belong to my cat and no one else