HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: too much realoding
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:46:45 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1992Nov14.035630.21539@bbxrbk> bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler) writes:
#In article <9211131442.AA20794@rutgers.edu> amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves) writes:
##Back to technical stuff.  I've reloaded over 550 rounds of ammo on a
##single stage press over the last two days, what a job!
#
#Interesting - when I take a few friends out for a day of shooting it's
#not uncommon to spend an hour or so the night before loading up 500
#rounds of pistol ammo on the Dillon.  If you're reloading *that* much,
#and do it often then I'd say that a progressive is in order.
#

I figured my total time for the 550 rounds of ammo was about 7 hours,
for everything, including cleaning the cases.  It isn't that I shoot
that much, usually less than 100 rounds a week, it's just that I let
it go so long between times I do it (I normally load 100 rounds at a
time).  This included 3 different calibers.  The .45 I loaded 250
rounds of with 5 different loadings, and I weighed every 10th charge
on all loads.  I don't think 7 hours is unreasonable.  It was just
doing it all at once that got to me.  When you factor in the fact that
if I had a spare $300-$400 to get a dillon press I'd probably be more
likely to put it towards a Colt Sporter.  Another point is that I
*like* reloading.  I think I like it as much as shooting.  I often
feel empty when all the ammo is loaded and I can't go out shooting to
use up my cases so I can do more loading.  Some day, when all the guns
are bought, the land is paid off, the house is built, the range is
finished, and I don't have to work, I'll buy a Dillon and spend my
days shooting.  Until then my Lee Challenger press works just fine,
thank you!

Just to legitimize this to actually have some shooting content worth
reading, my Springfield 1911 A1 is great!  I've now cycled about 500
rounds through it, with no jams, and no problem other than the dinged
case mouth problem.  My range now boasts a cloth backstop for behind
the shooter, and I've stopped losing cases, and the weeds downrange
are totally cleared away.  I tried the couple of drops of diesel in a
2 liter bottle trick.  Hitting it with a .357 158gr JHP loaded to max
loads had no effect other than to punch a couple of holes in the
bottle.  I even tried warming the bottle and the fuel to no avail.

-- 
Anmar Mirza   # Chief of Tranquility  #My Opinions! NotIU's!#Purveyor of
EMT-D         # Base, Lawrence Co. IN # Legalize Explosives!#nontraditional
N9ISY (tech)  # Somewhere out on the  # Politicians prefer  #family values
Networks Tech.# Mirza Ranch.C'mon over# unarmed peasants.   #Space For Rent
From: hhtra@usho21.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Recoil Formula
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:07:10 GMT
Organization: Chevron


 I was flipping through my reloading manuals and books and I came across
 a short blurb about How to Figure Recoil.  I remember that someone had
 asked about how much recoil certain calibers produced so I figured I'd
 post it for general interest.

 Source:  Handbook for Shooters & Reloaders, Volume II, pg 102 
          P.O. Ackley
          Plaza Publishing
          Reprinted without permission.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                             FIGURING RECOIL

 If one wishes to figure recoil, the following method of computing recoil
 was devised by Homer S. Powley.

 To calculate a very close estimate of total gun recoil energy when using
 DuPont's PB, SR, or IMR powders.

   Add the powder charge, in grains, to the weight of the bullet (or shot
   plus wads), also in grains, multiply the sum by the powder charge, in
   grains; this product is then divided by eighty (80) times the gun
   weight in pounds to get the answer in foot pounds.

   The answer agrees with a recoil pendulum because it allows for the Jet
   Effect of the escaping gases.  The recoil is different for other types
   of powders where the Kinetic Energy of the powder is different.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 So, using the formula:

    Recoil =  ((Powder Wgt + Bullet Wgt) x Powder Wgt) / (80 x Gun Wgt) 
 
 with reloading data from my Hornady Reloading Manual, I get the following
 recoil numbers for these popular calibers:   

                                     IMR
               Gun  Bullet  Powder  Powder  Recoil
      Caliber  Wgt   Wgt     Wgt     Type   Energy
      -------  ---  ------  ------  ------  ------

      .223      7     55     25.9    4895     3.74 ft/lbs
      .243      7     87     42.3    4831     9.77
      .25-06    8    117     49.7    4831    12.95 
      .270      8    130     57.2    4831    16.73
      .280      8    139     57.0    4350    17.46
       7mm      8    154     60.1    4831    20.11 
      .308      8    150     44.9    4064    13.67 
      .30-06    8    150     60.3    4831    19.81
      .300      9    150     68.0    4350    20.59
      .338      9    225     70.0    4831    28.68
      .416      9    400     83.3    4350    55.92
      .458      9    500     77.3    4320    61.98


 As always, your mileage may vary.  I know that the .300 Win Mag I've
 shot sure seemed to kick alot harder than 1 ft/lb more than the 30-06!

 TRAVIS

 Disclaimer:  Formulas and loads are taken from reliable sources but
              are used here for example purposes only and should not
              be used for actual reloading data.
From: lklawson@acs.harding.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Carrying Weapons Laws - Oklahoma, Arkansas, Missouri
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:12:54 GMT
Organization: Harding University

In article <9211170812.AA03076@rutgers.edu>, wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf) writes:

#I believe that in all of the states mentioned, concealed and open
#carry is illegal. As seen in discussions on here, even the Texas
#travelling exemption is vague and is likely to lead to, at least,
#an arrest depending on the jurisdiction you pass through. Ark. has
#a prohibition against ready availability, in a car or anywhere off
#your own property. I think you may have to keep them in the trunk

I'm a College student in AR right now and there is an stipulation for carry
that is left on the books from "the olden days."  Acording to the cops I've
asked down here, if you are going 50 miles or more along a rout that you do not
normally travel, then you may wear your weapon loaded (not concealed).  I'm
pretty sure that this is indended for residents only and its intent is clearly
based upon the assumption that someone going on a long trip may need to defend
himself against bandits.  I'm not exactly sure when this peice of legislation
was penned but I believe that, at the time, the usuall form of locomotion was a
horse.

#on this trip.  Such laws are very distressing to me as I have
#to attend an academic conference in San Francisco next week
#and one in Dallas in December. I'm not looking forward to either.

Kirk Lawson
LKLAWSON@ACS.HARDING.EDU
Q: If a philosopher falls from his bed in the middle of the night and there is
   no one there to hear, does he make any noise?
A: Yes.  He says "@%!*&#$(*)%^$!"
From: keith@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca (Keith de Solla)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: .357 in a 9mm
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:12:39 GMT
Organization: Canadian Microelectronics Corporation


This is probably a silly question but, is there any problem with
reloading 9mm with .357 JSP bullets?  I tried a few rounds and
though they are shorter & shaped differently from 9mm JSP bullets,
they fed ok in my Hi-Power.  The Speer .357JSPs are somewhat cheaper
(where I shop) than Speer 9mm JSPs & I would like to load a lot up
to break in my Hi-Power.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
| Keith P. de Solla        |  "Be sure brain is engaged before    |
| CMC                      |   putting mouth in gear"             |
| keith@orion.ic.cmc.ca    |                                      |
From: lucifer@world.std.com (Kevin S Green)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Carrying Weapons Laws - Oklahoma, Arkansas, Missouri
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:15:28 GMT
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

In article <1992Nov16.162600.12840@hou.amoco.com> zwbm07@hou.amoco.com (Walter Moore) writes:
|I'm going to travel from Houston Texas to St. Louis Missouri and back again.
|I was wondering what the laws were concerning carrying handguns in/thru the
|states of Oklahoma, Arkansas and Missouri.  I know that I can carry in Texas while
|traveling. Any help would be appreciated.

I am moving back to OK in a very short bit so I've been researching
this very sort of thing. Basically:
- _NO_ concealed carry at any time
- You can carry an unloaded firearm in a motor vehicle at any time.
- I spoke with a State Trooper not long ago that said that I could
  probably get away with carrying my unloaded pistol(s) in the glove
  compartment so long as there weren't any loaded magazines nearby.
  (I wouldn't rely on that though...best to just lock everything up).

There are other considerations, but that gives you the jist of it. I
would recommend getting a copy of the NRA/ILA state law brochures
for each state you go through.
-- 
Kevin S. Green / lucifer@world.std.com / {xylogics;uunet}!world!lucifer
               /America Online: Gargoth
From: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Get Out vs. Freeze ( was: Re: Bad tactical position)
Date: 17 Nov 92 02:09:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: cherokee.199211170051.AA12286
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

In article <1992Nov16.112309.1032@email.tuwien.ac.at> holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe)) writes:
#....
#IMHO, the best course of action is to leave  a  suspect  a  clear
#possibility  to  escape.  If I found somebody inside my flat, I'd
#yell "GET OUT  HERE  OR  I  SHOOT  YOU!  OUT  NOW!",  instead  of
#"FREEZE!" or something similar.

This looks like a very good idea to me. How come I'd never thought
of that? ;) I've never seen/heard people using that either.
Are there any drawbacks of using this method?

David
-- 
 K. David Lin, Ph.D.              | E-mail: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com  
 Communication Services Research  | Defend your life with style! -- Beretta
 U S WEST Advanced Technologies   | Disclaimer: Only personal opinions
From: loki@acca.nmsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 40 S&W Firestar for sale
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:32:05 GMT


	40 S&W Firestar, Starvel finish (electroless nickel), 
	with box, <500 rounds fired, 1 clip, cleaning kit.
	$350 Negotiable, includes 20 odd rounds commercial ammo.

Also available:

	Extended safety for Firestar:  sculpted on original 
	firestar safeties, these look like the extended safeties
	used on full race .45's.  Should fit .40 or 9mm; not sure
	about .45.  Blue finish.  $75 negotiable.

	Surface-hardened slide stop for Firestar:  One problem
	with the firestar seems to be that star used a soft
	steel on the slide stop and failed to harden it.  As a
	result, the bearing surface of the slide stop gets 
	rounded off, and it won't hold the slide properly.  This
	reground, hardened slide stop should fix this problem.
	Starvel finish.  $20.

	220 odd .40 S&W brass also available.

	All the above can be yours for $400, for the package. 
	Shipping is negotiable, but as a starting point, its
	not included in the asking prices.

contact me via email to loki@acca.nmsu.edu if you're interested.

PS:
I have 1000 187grain lead semi-wadcutter bullets, sized
.401, for sale (actually, they might be truncated cones; its hard
for me to tell, since I don't know the difference ;).  $30, shipping
not included.  contact me via email to loki@acca.nmsu.edu if you're
interested.
From: lriggins@afit.af.mil (L. Maurice Riggins)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:09:49 GMT
Organization: Air Force Institute of Technology

In article <iuLauB2w165w@bluemoon.use.com> jamaass@bluemoon.use.com (Jeffrey A. Maass) writes:
#amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves) writes:
## Back to technical stuff.  I've reloaded over 550 rounds of ammo on a
## single stage press over the last two days, what a job!
#
#Gee, I just came up from 1.5 hours loading ammunition on my Dillon
#RL-550B (500 rounds): what a job!
#
#8-)
#
I must be doing something wrong... it takes me around 3 hours to do
500 rounds of pistol ammo.  Maybe it's all those "attention" breaks 
from the wife and kids trying to compete with the Dillon :-) (tough
competition).  I can't even imagine the pain of a single-stage press.

(lotsa smilies)
-- 
Maurice               INTERNET:  lriggins@afit.af.mil
From: moore@tc.fluke.COM (Matt Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Accidental Discharges
Date: 24 Nov 92 00:03:01 GMT
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA

In article <9211171851.AA04010@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov> weed@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (daniel weed 283-4162) writes:
#
#I've read a few posts in the last few days describing the humbling 
#aftereffects of having an AD.  What I would like to know is:  How did
#this AD occur? What events lead up to it, what will you do differently 
#next time?
#I would also like to clarify the difference (IMHO) between Accidental
#Discharges and Negligent Discharges.  "Accidental" implys to me an unexpected
#discharge through no fault of the shooter, perhaps due to the gun failing
#to operate properly - such as firing with the safety on.  Negligent means
#the discharge was due to the shooter's error.  I suspect there are
#very few ADs, and many NDs.

 I have never had an AD because I buy high-quality guns (S&W, Ruger,
Glock) and keep them in good repair. I had one ND when I was just getting
started with shooting. I was at an indoor range with my brand new Ruger
revolver. I thought it would be cool to shoot single action, one handed
(cocking the hammer with the thumb of the shooting hand). This worked fine
for a while, but then my hand slipped while cocking the hammer, I clenched
to keep from dropping the gun, and bang. My finger had been inside the
trigger guard, of course, without my having planned it one way or the
other. The bullet hit the concrete floor about 15 yds downrange and
bounced into the bullet traps. No-one noticed anything unusual, and I gave
up Clint Eastwood style show-off shooting forever.

 Lessons learned:

 1) Do not believe *anything* you see on TV and the movies. Those people
 know nothing about gun safety.

 2) Shooting revolvers single action is for two hands only. My shooting
 book ("Shoot a Handgun" by Dave Arnold) covered this point, but I hadn't
 gottent to that page yet.

 3) Read the whole book first. Better yet, take shooting courses.

						Matt Moore
						John Fluke Mfg. Co.
						standard disclaimers apply
From: roy@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Roy W. Reter)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: S&W 5906
Date: 16 Nov 92 01:09:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: ncsu.1992Nov15.215737.9116
Organization: Computer and Technologies Theme Program, NCSU, Raleigh


I want to get some ideas from some people on the S&W 5906 good, bad, 
or indifferent.  I already own a Taurus 92, and would like to stay in the
9mm family for my second gun, and I have looked at the 5906.  Anyone that owns
one (or used to own one) what are your opinion?

Please email all replies to:

roy@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu


Thanks for any advice,


Roy
From: upchrch!joel@peora.sdc.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch  )
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:07:56 GMT
Organization: Upchurch Computer Consulting, Orlando FL

viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes:

# 	In Omaha, Nebraska a 7-11 store was robbed.  The clerk gave
# them the money and then walked outside to get a better view of the
# license plate.  He was beaten with a hammer and, get this, fired by
# 7-11 for attempting to get a plate number!  Sheesh!  Reports from
# the police were very sketchy as to what the subjects were wearing,
# distinguishing features, and the like, and this from a guy who has
# stood face-to-face with the punks.

I don't find this too surprising. I was held up while I was working
at a motel in 76 and the only things I could remember about the guy
was that he was white, had long blond hair, was barefoot and had a
semi-automatic pistol. I didn't know anything about handguns at the
time, if fact I didn't own one until two years ago. I suspect today
I'd give a lot better description of the pistol, but I'm not sure
I'd notice much more about the guy. I suspect that the ability to
notice and remember details in a high stress situation takes a lot
of training and practice.

(If your mail bounces use the address below.)
Joel Upchurch/Upchurch Computer Consulting/718 Galsworthy/Orlando, FL 32809
joel@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982
From: mjalava@lk-hp-17.hut.fi (Mika Matti Jalava)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Eye injuries from telescopic sights
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:16:34 GMT
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology

In article <1992Nov16.144141.21072@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson) writes:
#It is interesting how a scope can come back and smack you
#in the eye. Current doctrine in US Army for M-16 is to put
...
#My 7 year old son shoots my Remington 788 .44mag with a 4x
#leopold scope and has no problems other than the one he held
#too loose.

These are both very low-recoil guns compared with big high power
rifles. I think you could keep a scope attached to an M-16 against
your eye when firing with no problems. The recoil is not far from
zero. The .44 mag is also quite light as a rifle cartridge. When you
go to .300 Win mag or similar (even many lighter calibers kick rather
hard) this is a real problem. Don't try it, you won't like it. I mean
a scope too near, not firing big rifles :-)

	Mika
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 21 Nov 92 13:18:54 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

apskato@vax1.mankato.msus.edu writes:

#Yes, it is typical.  TV has warped our perceptions of how accurate police and
#civilians are with their weapons.  A statistic that has been quoted to me by a
#prof I know (Dr. William Lewinski, a co-contributor to Tactical Edge by
#Calibre press and formerly of the Street Survival seminar by that same 
#company) says that cops hit what they are shooting at 21 percent of the time
#and non-officers hit what they shoot at like 18 percent of the time.

Recently in Bellingham a perp was shot by police after he threatened to
kill them with a shotgun and fired at them.

9 shots and 1 hit I believe.   In the elbow.   They missed his chest
apparently.
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:16:01 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <Bxu306.AGz@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
#Here's an interesting question...according to some news report or another,
#there's been a rise in burglaries (or, I guess, technically, robberies)
#committed while the residents were at home--and they were purposefully 
#committed while there was someone there. These perps were doing it for 
#feeling of power, and they were bent on harm...

I think that's burglary (entering private property with the intention
of committing a crime) not robbery (where the intention is theft.)

#...and posed a clear and
#present danger. Question: If you catch one of these, and he tries
#to leave, do you shoot him? He poses a clear and present danger, and
#will likely try it again (according to the report), if not with you
#as the target, then with someone else...

Can you be sure of that? Perhaps the experience of being held at gun
point will reform him. I suspect a court of law would take that
view: You can not be sure that individual will be a future threat,
and therefore you are not justified in acting in self-defense.

#I know the FBI's position is that a Special Agent who witnesses a 
#a robbery is bound to try and apprehend the subject, even though it
#is technically not under FBI jurisdiction; do we, as "a well
#regulated militia," do the same?

The militia has no legal status in this respect. You could hold him
until the police arived. If he ran away, I think you could legally
consider this "resisting a citizen's arrest" and use force to
prevent it _in_some_states_.

#(I think the answer is to shoot, under
#Arizona's laws, but I'm not certain what any other laws are. I think
#that, under Colorado and Oklahoma law, the moment he enters my
#house, he's at my mercy, no matter what he does, so I'd shoot, no
#question. What would _you_ do?)

At least under Colorado law, you might get away with it: Without
evidence to the contrary, it is assumed that someone in your
home without your permission is a threat. I'm not sure about 
cases where evidence suggests there was no threat (e.g. someone
shot "execution style", shot in the back, etc...)

                                        Frank Crary
                                        CU Boulder
From: srhineha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Shawn L Rhinehart)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: I need opinions
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:41:27 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University



     Hi guys,

      I need some advice. I have several old guns that I think might be worth
  something. What I need to know is wether or not I should refinish then or
  not. The main two that I am wondering about are and old Remington .32 cal
  rimfire. I think it might be a model No. 4 because of the takedown barrel but
  I'm not sure. The other one it a Winchester model 37 20 gauge shotgun. It has
  "Winchester" in red on the bottom of the gun in front of the trigger. I've
  heard that that is a rare feature.

   Does anyone know approximate values on these guns?

   Should I refinish (strip,stain,varnish, and reblue) them or not?


   I enjoy doing the refinishing, but I don't want to reduce the value of the
   guns. All opinions are welcome.

...............................................................................
From: ai298@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jerry Cergol)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Value assessment
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:04:09 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)


I have acquired through inheritance a genuine 1863 Springfield 
muzzle-loader. It appears to be 58 caliber with percussion cap
ignition. It has the loading rod and is clearly engraved. It 
seems to be in beautiful condition. It is about 50 inches long and
has folding range elevation rear sights.  Does anyone have an
idea of this gun's value as a collector's item?

-- 
Captain Jerry Cergol  ai298
Net-Work SportFishing Charters
Lake Erie Walleye/Lake Ontario Salmon
Your Connection to Great Lakes SportFishing
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .357 in a 9mm
Date: 20 Nov 92 13:46:50 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

keith@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca (Keith de Solla) writes:

#This is probably a silly question but, is there any problem with
#reloading 9mm with .357 JSP bullets?  I tried a few rounds and
#though they are shorter & shaped differently from 9mm JSP bullets,
#they fed ok in my Hi-Power.  The Speer .357JSPs are somewhat cheaper
#(where I shop) than Speer 9mm JSPs & I would like to load a lot up
#to break in my Hi-Power.

I've done it and it works just fine.  I don't think there is enough
difference between the calibers to matter.

Jim D