HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ee5391aa@triton.unm.edu (Duke McMullan n5gax)
Subject: Re: Pronghorns != Antelope
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 15:57:13 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Aug25.175548.14984@morrow.stanford.edu>
AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>In article <mwan=1b@lynx.unm.edu>,
>ee5391aa@triton.unm.edu (Duke McMullan n5gax) writes:
>>
>>Several genera of Antilocaprids are known from the fossil record; only
>>_Antilocapra_americana_ (these similar names can get confusing) survives,
>...
>Not true!  What about "Jackalopus Cityslickerus Foolae"?

Ooohhhh!  Color my face red!  I forgot that one!

				d

-- 
	So effectively have environmentalists greened public opinion that
      it takes an unashamed reactionary to question the wisdom of becoming
      ever greener and cleaner.		-- The Economist, 08 Aug 92 p. 11
     Duke McMullan n5gax nss13429r phon505-255-4642 ee5391aa@triton.unm.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: JB <jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com>
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Organization: NT/BNR
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1b3
     <1992Aug25.131441.19606@hemlock.cray.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:51:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.131441.19606@hemlock.cray.com> David Adams,
dadams@cray.com writes:
>The problem is not that people have dogs, or that they want to bring them
>to any specific place, backcountry, country, or city, but the problem
>occurs when dog owners have unrealistic ideas about what they sould
>let their dog do.

Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes.  This is the idea.  Dogs are not the
problem, the owner is the problem.  Dogs are more "natural" out there
than people, and have no problem adjusting (even to giardia, guys, don't
think it's just those mountain streams that are infested), unlike people.
 A well behaved dog, though few and far between, is going to be fine. 
And no, I don't bury my dog's poop, or the moose, deer, rabbit poop that
I encounter (yes, of course, my own.  Please.).  Dogs are eminently
trainable, and incredible companions, and no one has yet to pose an
argument that will compel me to leave mine home.  OK, OK, I'll stop being
sanctimonious.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: patf@silvlis.com (Pat Fitzgibbons)
Subject: Looking for hiking groups in the BAY area.
Organization: Silvar-Lisco
Distribution: ba
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 19:59:24 GMT


   My girl friend and I moved to Sunnyvale about a year ago
from Minnesota and we would like to join some group which
does hiking and camping. Is the local Sierra club
our best bet or are there other such organizations ?
Is there a more appropriate newsgroup I can post this to ?
--
 O O O  Patrick Fitzgibbons   /\            |         These are my opinions.
  \ /    patf@silvlis.com    /--\  Sunnyvale ) --     Any agreement with my 
   X                      /\/    \   CA     |         company is purely     
  / \        in          /  \     \                   coincidental.
From: igb@fulcrum.bt.co.uk (Ian G Batten)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Thread Sizes (was: Exploding fuel bottles)
Date: 28 Aug 92 10:22:18 GMT
Organization: Fulcrum Communications

>>>>> On 27 Aug 92 16:09:44 GMT, gascan@dcst16.dc (Bill Gascoyne) said:

Bill>  Anyone else notice that, along about a year or two ago, MSR changed the thread
Bill>  size on the Whisperlite and their fuel bottles, so you can no longer buy a

Could someone confirm this?  I have had a Whisperlite for a few years
and was planning to buy a second one for when I want to cook something
more interesting (when we are boot-packing (truck-packing to the
Americans)).   If the threads are different --- so I'd have to label the
fuel bottles to use them with the ``right'' pump --- it would be a
severe pain.

ian
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: hfoster@ssd.kodak.com (Henrietta Foster)
Subject: Need phone/address for Campmor
Originator: hfoster@liebnitz
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 16:01:26 GMT

Hi.  Would someone please email me the phone # and or address for
Campmor?  Thanks.

Henrietta
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: National Park Mortality Rates (was Re: No dogs in Natl Parks)
Date: 3 Sep 92 23:38:25 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Sep3.154158.7479@unocal.com> stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:
>No that we are on the stupid-tourist thread again,
>I wonder if the statistics on how many fatalities and accidents in National
>Parks are published somewhere.
>I personally saw twp heart attack casualties in the Grand Canyon last Easter,
>but never heard how many overall deaths there are.

I saw some gruesom mountain-bike casualties at Slick Rock last year.
The whole scene at Slick Rock reminds of a downhill skiing area without
the soft snow.  The Moab Chamber of Commerce should hire a full-time
ambulance service for the place.


-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: Custom boots in the West
Date: 1 Sep 92 11:03:52 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

>morrison@cup.hp.com (Bobbie_Morrison) writes:

>|I'mserious about getting some custom boots made.

In Salt Lake City (SCL) there is Gary Mekan (Mekan Boots).  He has an
800 number so you can easily get it from information.

Cheers,
Allen R. Sanderson

Salt Lake City, Oootah


"I always wanted to climb those peaks ...
	 just didn't think I would them all in one day."

	My climbing partner after walking/climbing in the Wasatch last weekend.
From: ajs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Alan Silverstein)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 01:23:20 GMT
Subject: Re: Death on the Knife Edge :-(
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

> Does anyone know more about this accident?  Alan?  Randy?

No, I'm afraid I don't.  I heard there was a brief mention in a Denver
paper I don't read; nothing locally, and I seldom catch TV news.  I've
run into several people who've discussed it, but not with any more
information.  It's usually that way.  Only the local sheriff, rescue
folks, and family/friends know the full story.

I understand there have been about seven deaths in Rocky Mountain
National Park this summer too.  Few details ever available.  Oh well,
there's always Accidents in North American Mountaineering -- for the
stories that get submitted, anyway.  I have heard that Colorado rescue
groups seldom submit.  Well, I sent in my story of nearly dying on
Capitol last summer, we'll see if they use it.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: Tim Dudley <dudley.chi@xerox.com>
Subject: boots
Organization: bnr
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1b3
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 14:59:03 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.141409.14228@cs.brown.edu> Philip M. Hubbard,
pmh@cs.brown.edu writes:
>I recently returned from backpacking in Alaska.  The trip was great, but
I
>was somewhat disappointed with my leather hiking boots.  Even though I
>covered them thoroughly with Sno-Seal, they still leaked a considerable
>amount of water.
>
>I am now considering buying a new pair of boots.  I have a few ideas
about
>what I might buy, but I would love to hear any advice from people out
there.
>The two options I have thought of so far are as follows:
>
>1. Buy a pair of L.L. Bean's Maine Hunting Boots and replace their
>rounded-bottom soles with Vibram soles.  A friend of mine who is a
ranger at
>Denali says some of his fellow rangers like this approach because the
Bean
>boots are quite waterproof.  But how comfortable are Bean boots for
hiking?
>
>2. Buy a pair of light-weight (i.e., not all leather) hiking boots and a
pair
>of Gore-Tex socks to make them more waterproof.  I have a few concerns
about
>this chioce, though.  Are Gore-Tex socks really waterproof and
comfortable in
>field conditions?  Which light-weight boots are the best?  Do the
Gore-Tex
>boots remain at all waterproof and/or breathable when they get muddy?
>
>I know little about Gore-Tex socks and boots, so I would particularly
>appreciate advice on those topics.  Thanks in advance.
>
Before you buy, I'd suggest you phone Schnee's Boot Shop in 
Bozeman, Montana, tell them your problem, ask their advice, and ask
them to send you a catalog.  They build their boots on the premises, 
and they know what they're doing.

Schnee's number is (406) 587-0981

Tim
From: psilsbee@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Peter Silsbee)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: WAS: Mono Pass...     BEARS! (Oh my!)
Date: 23 Aug 92 23:28:55 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <8490005@hplred.HP.COM> fitzhugh@hplred.HP.COM (Andrew Fitzhugh) writes:
>I've heard several people say they fought off bears by throwing stones
>-- is that really such a good idea?  In a place with no suitable trees

This is pretty standard practice. I believe the greatest danger is that
you may hit your hiking partner with an errant throw.

Peter

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: micki@netcom.com (Michelle Stone)
Subject: I'm back!
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 18:06:13 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

I finally made it back!  Boy...  talk about a tuff year!  So 
far I have worked for 3 companies.  Sheesh.  In any case3,
hello again!

Micki
From: scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:35:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvca.1992Aug27.183541.22214
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
: 
: Let see.  So far this month we've had someone suggest pushing someone off a
: cliff for building cairns and now shooting or using an ice axe on someones
: dog.
: 
: I think some people are taking the backcountry experience way too serious.

I take it very seriously if a dog attacks me, whether in the city or in
the backcountry.  Like I said in an earlier posting, I have a friend who
was attacked by a dog in a Wilderness area, and he had to beat the dog off.

One interesting thing is that in the majority of my encounters with dogs,
they have been overly hostile when out in the woods, compared to the city.
Anyone thoughts on this one?

If a dog attacks me either place, I will try to kill it.   Period.

--

Scott Linn
scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: drchambe@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Dennis Chamberlin)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: handy tip: priming MSR whisperlite
Date: 27 Aug 92 20:47:36 GMT
Reply-To: drchambe@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Dennis Chamberlin)
Distribution: na
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <3640020@hplsla.hp.com> jaym@hplsla.hp.com (Jay Miazga) writes:
>
>What kind of alchohol do you use?  

I use Marine Stove Fuel. It's a little hard to start when cold, but otherwise
burns fine.
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:23:09 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Sep2.160248.4715@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> mefels@triples.math.mcgill.ca (Mark Fels) writes:
|The first time I saw dogs out on hiking trails was last week in the
|White mountains and in every single case the people were hiking without
|enough water (so it seemed) for the dogs. The animals did not seem to
|be enjoying the heat especially without the ability to get water. 
|A ban in this case might be the humane thing to do.

Yes, a ban on the human from entering the backcountry.  If the person doesn't
have the common sense to bring a canteen or other container full of water they
are a danger to themselves. 

The water topic brings up another question.  How do you stop a dog from 
drinking giardia infested water?  Have any of you dog owners that have 
brought a dog into the backcountry had the dog get giardia?

-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
From: bohack@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (edward.e.harstead)
Subject: Re: Good/bad experiences with (sleeping) overbags
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:22:40 GMT

In article <Btz7nv.K5I.2@cs.cmu.edu> cline+@cs.cmu.edu (Kenneth Cline) writes:
>I bought a down overbag from Feathered Friends.  Aside from the
>unreasonable delay and lies about delivery ("the bag's in the mail" -
>yeah, right), I have been extremely pleased with it.

Just for the record, I also had a real lousy experience with
Feathered Friends, including delays and misinformation.  Very
unprofessional mail order staff. 

Ed
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: cottle@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (David M. Cottle)
Subject: Water Proofing advice (Helly-Hansen jacket)
Organization: University of Illinois School of Music
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 00:12:56 GMT

Hi,

I just spent a good amount of my limited student budget on a 
Helly Hansen jacket (one of the new line -- they didn't even 
have it on display) and it seems to work well enough, except 
water is seeping through the seams.  

Any advice?  Can I seal it with something similar to what you
would use on a tent?  Should I just give up and get something
better?  I've done enough mountaineering to know a half-baked
solution is almost worse than no solution.

Thanks in advance.  I'll post a summary if warranted.



=============================
David Cottle
Lime Consultant
CERL Sound Group at UIUC
103 S Mathews
Urbana, IL 61801

(217) 244-6686
Lime@uiuc.edu
=============================
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: Tim Dudley <dudley.chi@xerox.com>
Subject: Source for reflector ovens?
Organization: bnr
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1b3
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 13:31:42 GMT

Does anyone know of a source for reflector ovens?  One local shop
here has them, but they're over $70, and I won't pay that much.

Any ideas?

Tim
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: msc@ssigate.ssinc.com (Michael S. Cross)
Subject: Re: MSR Stoves - Whisperlite (how about Peak I)
Organization: Systems and Synchronous Inc., Naperville, IL
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 13:08:07 GMT

clindh@abalon.se (Christer Lindh) writes:

>In an article pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu (Pierre VonKaenel) writes:
>>  Unfortunately, I put my old Peak I aside and bought a Whisperlite for
>>  size and weight.  I've read a number of posts concerning the built-in
>>  Peak I fuel resevoir.
>>
>Has anyone out there used the new Coleman "Whisperlite lookalike"
>(forgot the name), that has a separate fuel reservoir/bottle just like
>the MSR's?  Looks good and all that, but what's the verdict?

No.

>I'm getting fed up with my MSR. During this summers US trip it started
>behaving badly again, sputtering, flame going down to the jet etc.
>Cleaning/replacing all possible parts didn't help. Tried all the
>tricks I received when I asked about it several months ago on this
>group.  Now I'm gonna send the darn thing back to MSR.

My (older model) Peak One does this flame-over and sputtering garbage.
I didn't see the posted tricks you mention, but I did clean all the tubes
in my stove and replaced the generator with the one they now sell for
the newer model stove.  It didn't help much.

I never had the Peak One leak except when I was trying to start it.  I
have carried it mostly full in my pack for over 5 years, I never
de-pressurized it, but after cooking on it there isn't much pressure
left in it anyway.

The one difference between the Peak One and the Wisperlite (and my buddy's
MSR GXK (?)) is that there is an adjustable flame on the Peak One.  I can
cook a variety of foods like pancakes without burning the middle.  I have
a new Whisperlite stove now because it boils water fast.  I still like to
cook over my Peak One, but I am buying more dehydrated foods now that they
are starting to taste better. :^)  All you really need to do to cook a 
dehydrated food pouch is boil water, let it sit for a few minutes, then eat.

One other reason I purchased a Whisperlite is the size/weight.  I was always
carrying an extra fuel bottle anyway, so the difference between the ~1 pound
Peak One and the ~5 oz. Wisperlite is noticable.  One bad thing though, my
cook-kit fits over the Peak One, and the Wisperlite is just the wrong size.

>So I gave up, bought a cheapo Spider butane-stove to be able to still
>cook outdoors. Not a bad stove actually, but the cartridges don't last
>long and are expensive.

Ug.  More trash to pack out and fill up our dumps.

Hope it helps (tm).

Mike

-- 
Michael S. Cross         Work: msc@ssihub.ssinc.com               708-505-4508
      Home: 73750.1363@CompuServe.com  (but not exactly *proud* of it)
Systems and Synchronous Inc., 900 E. Diehl Rd, Suite 110, Naperville, IL 60563
__________________________To Live is to risk Dying____________________________
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jwag9429@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (John Wilbur Althauser)
Subject: Re: Hiking the AT N->S
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 20:45:54 GMT

lwvanels@athena.mit.edu (Lucien W. Van Elsen) writes:

>I'm interested in hiking the Appalachian trail in the next couple of years,
>and I'm finally getting to the point where I'd like to make up some tenative
>schedules.  I'd like to do it from N->S, but it seems most people do it in
>the other direction- I'm wondering what sort of problems or pleasant
>surprises I'd run into by going against the flow.  If you've had any
>experience with this, I'd appreciate hearing from you-

>	-Lucien

>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Lucien Van Elsen               | lwvanels@mit.edu
>			       | The secret to a long life is knowing when

I've read a book about a newly married couple who hiked the trail
from north to south in the 1970's.  Both were from an artists
colony in New England, and the dedication in the front is to E. Abbey,
who was a friend.  This book talks a great deal about the problems and
pleasures of their 'backward' trip.  

But I can't recall the name.  Can someone help us out here?

John Althauser
jwag9429@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:6793 rec.climbing:3364
From: cline+@cs.cmu.edu (Kenneth Cline)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Good/bad experiences with (sleeping) overbags
Date: 3 Sep 92 00:21:30 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

I bought a down overbag from Feathered Friends.  Aside from the
unreasonable delay and lies about delivery ("the bag's in the mail" -
yeah, right), I have been extremely pleased with it.

The overbag is roomy, reasonably light (down only covers the top 2/3,
and a sleeping pad slips in a pocket on the bottom, and nearly as warm
as my three season bag.  Together, they are warm enough for winter
trips to New Hampshire.  During the summer, I always choose the
overbag for comfort because of its size.  It looks like pretty soon
now, I'll be taking the other bag for its hood.  (n.b. for winter
warmth, I always build a big pile of clothing around my head with an
air tunnel).

One final note:  In warmer than arctic conditions, leave the inner bag
unzipped.  You can move around with the freedom of movement the large
overbag gives you (I like this, in case you didn't know), without
sacrificing much in the way of insulation.

Ken
From: jjk@astro.umd.edu (Jim Klavetter)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 27 Aug 92 15:01:57 GMT
Organization: U. of Maryland @ College Park, Astronomy

In article <1950042@hpgrla.gr.hp.com> edb@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Ed Beshore) writes:
>Regarding dogs in the backcountry.....
>
>This is a topic regularly debated in this forum, but I can't resist.
>
You should have resisted...

>My wife and I spent a few wonderful days in the Mummy range of RMNP
>2 years ago.  While walking above Lawn lake, we looked around and
>found ourselves in the middle of a herd of bighorns.  They were
>clearly skittish, but not intimidated.  We simply sat down and
>enjoyed them for nearly an hour.  There were other folks
>in the area, and I can conclude with 98% certainty that if anyone
>would have had their dog with them, we simply could have not had
>that experience.
>
Bullshit.  This again is nothing inherent in the dog, but the owner
(and wind direction).  While in AK, my TWO dogs and I got close to
bighorn sheep.  My pups were, of course, strictly controlled to be at
my side and we oh so slowly moved and then sat and then moved some
more and then finally decided not to get any closer since we didn't
want to disturb them.  In fact, I'm sure that with caribou (and
perhaps the sheep) the dogs HELPED us get close since they were very
interested and curious about the dogs and came and circled around us
as we walked (this is far out in the backcountry you understand).  So
the old thing about dogs and wildlife is not necesarrily true.  Who
knows, if you had a WELL BEHAVED dog with you, the sheep might have
been more curious and come closer to you!

>I understand that some folks consider their animals part of the
>family, but remember those animals don't get the aesthetic
>pleasure of parks like we do.  Since the National Parks are
>a shared resource, and there are plenty of places that do
>allow dogs, I just can't be sympathetic to those who object
>to the ban.

See my posting from yesterday (or the FAQ, #5 I think) and the
falseness of dogs being banned from all NPs.  RMNP, yes, but
Wrangell-St.Elias NP, no.

jjk@astro.umd.edu also for Athabasca and Reudi
Jim Klavetter
Astronomy
UMD
College Park, MD  20742
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: bill@gaza.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (William J. King)
Subject: Binoculars recommendation sought
Organization: University of Hawaii
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:25:23 GMT



	Any fellow trecker recommend a pair of smallish
	binoculars for me. Something that will stand up
	to salt water, and take the bumps.
	REI, Campmor, etc, or othre mailorder houses prefered.
	Got the cost?
	thanx
	wm

--
    bill@uhunix.bitnet 
    bill@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu 
    21.19 N.LAT by 157.52 W.LONG          
    Fish on the Byte
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.travel
From: watson@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (John S. Watson - FSC)
Subject: SUMMARY: a visit to edward abbey land
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr. Mtn Vw CA 94035
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 17:07:49 GMT


Hello again Folks!

Here is the summary I promised to the question:
"From now until January,  when is the best time to visit the
South West (from Big Bend to southern Utah in 2 weeks)?".

Of the ten or so people that responded, Fall was the unanimous
vote.  Many people said Winter was a neat, but for many reasons,
travel at that time was not as advisable.

It was also unanimous that 2 week is no where nearly enough
time to visit all I want to see.   I agree, but figure I'll
do this foot loose trip this time, and find out what I like best,
and next time, if I should live so long, return and devote much more time
in places that I like.

So thanks once again to everyone that took the
time to respond.

See you out there,
John

John S. Watson, Civil Servent from Hell          ARPA: watson@ames.arc.nasa.gov

HOMEBREW NAKED! --- Ursus cerevisiae nudium  (The Bare Beer Bear)
All right, then, I'll GO to hell"  --- Mark Twain
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.nude