From: morphy@cco.caltech.edu (Jones Maxime Murphy)
Subject: Re: Social perquisites of non-slaveholding whites
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:25:04 GMT

casper@vxcrna.cern.ch (CASPER,DAVI./PPE) writes:

>Well, we went almost a day without hearing from Mr. Murphy.  I thought for a
>moment the economic recovery was finally underway, and the investment bankers
>had gotten back to gouging the third world for interest money on their food
>and medicine.

Nah, and miss trashing you clueless dodos? No way, even raking in the millions
can wait...

>Apparently not...

Damn right!

>Putdowns indeed seem to be more your forte than reasoned argumentation, that
>much is clear.  "As water to a fish and air to a bird, so is contempt to the
>contemptible." - Blake

You're the expert on contemptibility. I defer to you, sir.*Sweeping bow*

>>I'm not sure. I guess it's the pure sadistic pleasure of doing intellectual
>>battle with unarmed opponents.

>I see.  Your contempt for us is equalled only by your own glowing opinion of
>yourself.  Did it ever seem odd to you that no one else seems to share it?

Hey, the pretty white lady sitting next to me says you're dead wrong, sucker.

>True, your knowledge of English is (barely) better than your knowledge of
>history.  At least you don't make up words as often as you make up facts.

Chill, homes. My knowledge of English (vastly) exceeds yours.

>No you need me to put *sensible* words in your mouth.  What you said was that
>you were going to "straighten us out".  That sounds like using verbal coercion
>and brow-beating to me.

No, actually. It sounds like I'm going to straighten you out, just like I said.

>Again, a quip rather than any engagement of the point made.  Apparently you do
>not deny making a gross and utter simplification of history either.

If you made points, I'd engage them. And I won't dignify your accusation with
a rebuttal.

>Nice try.  So now you admit that you are pushing an ideology and worrying about 
>the truth later.  Now you are just accusing me of the same.

>Look, your statement above would be roughly analogous to the following one:

>Exposure to the white man's culture and society (one of the benefits of slavery 
>and colonialism, for which blacks should be grateful) have been the fundamental
>catalyst for everything achieved by Africans subsequently.

Yes, they have. Chaos, starvation, misery, all due to the centuries of military
occupation by the plundering Europeans. For once, you're right, if
unintentionally.

>[I bit him,he'll bite back]

Let's leave the sadomasochistic fantasies out of this.

>OK.  Please define:

>1) Colonialism.  Try to differentiate it from wars of conquest and pillage which
>have been practiced all over the world since the beginning of recorded history.

Why should I? It's no different! It's the same barbaric activity, except it's 
now being practiced by "democracies" which believe in "equality" and share
"Enlightenment" values. NOT!

You're trying to snare me an a semantic web. You're terribly out of your league,
old chap.

>2) Slavery.  Do you mean all slavery, including enslavement of Africans by
>Africans which predates African enslavement by Europeans?  Enslavement of
>Europeans by other Europeans?

In the context of this discussion, I refer to the massive onslaught of Western
European countries on Africa and the Americas, and the enslavement and
kidnapping of millions.

>3) Western Europe.  Does this include nations like Switzerland, Sweden, Poland, 
>etc. who did not amass overseas colonies?  Does it include the Slavs and Greeks 

Sweden did have overseas colonies.

>of southern Europe who were themselves being colonized by the Turks at this
>time?

Are you just stupid? Does Greece or any Slav country look like it's in the 
West of Europe??

>  Does it include the Italian merchant cities who were mainly involved with
>Mediterranean trade and already quite well off?  Does it include Spain and
>Portugal who were driven into obscurity by their empires?

Spain and Portugal were vastly enriched by the empires! They were fearsome
economic and military powers in their brutal heyday. Their collapse was due to
incompetent economic policies, not to "their empires".

>4) Everything Western Europe achieved.  Is there any achievement which you feel
>could have been made even in the absence of colonialism and slavery?  If not,
>had the Europeans not practiced colonialism, would modern medicine, agricultural
>techniques, etc. which have materially improved conditions around the world
>not have been invented?

That's unlikely, to say the least. The massive accumulation of wealth resulting
from vast crimes was a tremendous contributing factor, to say the least. It is
also far from clear how much of modern medicine and agriculture were in fact
invented by Europeans. It is much clearer that Europeans appropriated the fruit
of other people's work, including their inventions.


>Oh I see.  Since you think this group exists purely for your enjoyment, maybe
>we should change its name to alt.gratification.self.jones.murphy

Wow. A group devoted to my masturbation techniques.

>You know Jones, from your attitude, you probably would have made a good slave
>merchant.  I'm glad to see from your .sig that at least you've found the next
>closest thing...

..Well, I'm a worthy descendant of slave merchants. And I think I've found my
first cargo. C'mere, Dave baby...
Jones
-- 
Jones M Murphy Jr                                        (212) 602-4375
NatWest Investment Bancorp, National Westminster Bank PLC
100 Wall Street, New York, NY10005                   FAX (212) 269-0113
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa