HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy)
Subject: Texas Concealed Carry (Was: 2nd Ammendment)
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<1992Nov6.140706.23686@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
	<1992Nov6.170211.18927@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
	<pa142548.409.721347434@utkvm1.utk.edu>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:12:50 GMT

In article <pa142548.409.721347434@utkvm1.utk.edu> pa142548@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer) writes:

<Texas is not Georgia, and getting a conceal carry permit in Texas is no easy 
<thing.  

	That is certainly true, as there are no concealed carry
	permits at all in Texas.

<You have to have "a compelling reason."

	No, that's incorrect. An individual who legally
	can own a firearm may carry that firearm concealed:

	1. On ones own property.

	2. While "traveling" on a "bona fide trip": that means
	   from point A to point B with no sidetrips and few
	   or no stops. It is strongly suggested that at least
	   one county line be crossed in the process; this is
	   a gray area where one police officer might arrest	
	   one and another might not. Obviously, I'm not a
	   legal advisor, this isn't legal advice, etc.

	3. While a law enforcement officer.

	So basically, the only people who can carry concealed
	firearms in Texas without fear of arrest are police
	officers or other officers of the law. "Compelling
	reason" does not enter into it; that phrase is used
	in other states CCP applications, however.

	There will be another attempt in the Legislature
	next year to bring some sanity to this situation, I
	am certain.

	I hope the bill is named after Al Gratia. It would
	be only fitting.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: jbf@wts.com (Jens B. Fiederer)
Subject: Re: I HATE to vote for Bush! But...
Organization: Wegmans Transaction Services
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:07:13 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.134740.15793@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bobd@marune.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula) writes:
>
>No what Frank is saying is that people who sit around and
>vote the sewers choice end up with increasingly larger piles of
>manure to deal with. People *did* endorse the *idea* of a third
>party with as ~20% endorsement of Ross Perot. IMHO the LP problem
>is that they are approaching things from the wrong end. They need
>to win (the relatively inexpensive) local offices, then state
>offices *before* they worry a lot about the presidency or US
>Congress.
>
Actually, although the Presidential race was disastrous for Libertarians,
they did not do badly in the state and local races, gaining permanent
ballot status in Pennsylvania for example.  In my county in NY, Marrou
got only 712 votes, but Norma Segal who was running for the Senate got
7343 votes (still only 2.6 %, but over 10x better than Marrou).  Althoug
the Libertarian party did twice as well in the last election, they didn't
have Perot to contend with -- people who could not accept either Bush or
Clinton in this election had a third, well publicized choice.

Jens
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: goguenm@bach.udel.edu (Matthew L Goguen)
Subject: Guns and Car Jacking.
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:18:28 GMT

On the front page of my local paper  were the following headlines:
"Police warn Del. to be prepared for carjackings."
Now not only do we have a 'serial' rapist on the loose but we have
to watch out for a new rash of idiots.  I propose that all new cars
be equipped with an anti-carjack mechinism before the ask me to
turn in my pistol.  Something like a spring loaded sword or lead pipe
that would drop a perp at the ankles where they wern't expecting it.
Del. has an 'instant' backround check on handgun purchases. (Takes about
15 min for the State Police to verify that you are not a felon, or ex-felon
via the telephone.)   However it is almost impossible to get a CCW for DE.
It is very difficult, but if this trend arrives as predicted I may explore
the former and the latter possibilites for carjackers.  (I like the idea of a 
lead pipe dropping a carjacker to the ground with two shattered ankles.)
We will see what kind of finances I can come up with after the IRS muggs
me in 7 weeks. :)
	Matt Goguen
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
//  Matthew L. Goguen       // Choose this day whom ye  //   
//  Engineer to be.         // will serve as for me and //
//  goguenm@chopin.udel.edu // my house we will serve   //
//  Shadowmiester           // the LORD. Joshua 24:15   //
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: Damage Assessment after Comrade Clinton's victory?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 06:42:29 GMT

urbin@interlan.interlan.com (Mark Urbin) writes:

>   Here in the PRM (also know as the Commonwealth of Massachusetts), NRA F 
>rated congresscritter Joe `I can bring home the pork' Early lost his job to 
>the NRA endorsed challenger.

	Iowa helped put Clinton in the White House, and two pro-gun
republicans back on the Hill.  Mandate my ass!

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<  "This isn't an answer, it's a pagan dance around a midnight fire  >
<   written in intellectual runes." -- Rich Young                    >
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Must courses be mandatory?
Date: 5 Nov 92 19:33:09 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Nov5.115645.18277@cci632.cci.com>, sjo@cci632.cci.com (Steve Owens) writes:

> 	The NRA currently has some excellent training programs that
> are given for free or at cost, yet I haven't heard of overcrowding
> in these classes.  IMHO, I don't think people would spend the money
> on something like this if they didn't feel it was mandatory.

Neither of those statements appears to be the case here.  Our local
club has had to DOUBLE its class days (they can't make the classes
bigger and still be able to fit everybody on the range).  The course 
is also not "free or at cost" ($75 to $125 per person) and people 
are indeed spending the money on it.  

Yes, a gun safety course IS required here, but that doesn't explain 
why people are spending $75 money on an eight-week course instead of 
taking the one-day, two-hour, no-exam, $15 "lecture and video" gut
course from the city PD that also happens to satisfy the requirement.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: howard@Metaphor.COM (Lee Howard)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Queston on NRA Funding
Date: 9 Nov 92 10:21:33 GMT
Reply-To: howard@Metaphor.COM (Lee Howard)
Followup-To: talk.politics.guns
Organization: m4

This weekend I was embroiled in a heated discussion about gun control
with some of my on-this-subject-unenlightened friends, and the issue
of NRA funding came up.  My friends argued (without providing numbers)
that the arms manufacturers "own" the NRA by virtue of their financial
contributions; I argued (without providing numbers) that a) the arms
manufacturers are in such financial straits that they don't have
much to spare, and b) whatever arms industry does give, it is merely
a drop in the bucket compared to the contributions of 3 million
members.

Can anybody help me locate data on NRA funding?

Thanks a lot.

--- lee  KC6KXI  NRA-Life     Support the NRA/ILA/PVF ---

Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: mjp@austin.ibm.com (Michael Phelps)
Subject: Re: 2nd Ammendment
Originator: mjp@bwa.kgn.ibm.com
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 11:41:46 GMT
Reply-To: mjp@vnet.ibm.com (Michael J. Phelps)
Organization: IBM Kingston NY


In article <1992Nov6.170211.18927@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, colten@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (marc.colten) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov6.140706.23686@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, bobd@marune.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula) writes:
|> > In article <1992Nov6.041425.24217@cbfsb.cb.att.com> colten@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (marc.colten) writes:
|> > >
|> > >Guns are a lot different from knives.  I can sit a block away with
|> > >a knife and be considered a mild threat - but a gun makes me a 
|> > >major threat.  I've had this argument before  "oh then let's ban
|> > >steak knives" - tell that to the people in Killeen.  If that guy
|> > >had a steak knife 90% of his victims might be alive.  Guns are
|> > >a very different matter.
|> > >
|> > 
|> > *Sigh*, if the folks in the restaurant had been able to carry
|> > concealed, then most probably the incident in Killeen would never
|> > have been on the national news in the first place. The unreasonable
|> > restriction of their RKBA kept them from defending themselves
|> > and others in this situation. This situation was more of
|> > a defeat for the HCI crowd than the RKBA crowd if you think about
|> > it a bit. I *know* there are a lot more folks in this forum who can/will
|> > probably jump on this assertion of yours with additional
|> > evidence/facts relating to that case. All of this has been rehashed
|> > here in tpg *numerous* times.
|> > 
|> 
|> In the first place who said they couldn't "carry concealed" - they
|> could apply for licenses and get the guns.  Hell, they sell them

Texas does not allow citizens to carry concealed.  They can carry in their
cars, but not on their person.  So, in answer to your question, the state
of Texas sez they couldn't carry concealed.  

[deleted]
|
|> marc colten
|> 

-- 
Michael Phelps, (external) mjp@vnet.ibm.com ..
                (internal) mjp@bwa.kgn.ibm.com .. mjp at kgnvmy         
 (and last but not least a disclaimer)  These opinions are mine..       
Xref: sparky talk.politics.guns:23835 soc.culture.japan:10406
From: ra01+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rikiya Asano)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Yoshi Hattori / UPI
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:08:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.EezoD6200iV0E_3DBD
	<BxGt5C.8KA@world.std.com>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Mr. Richmond,

Oh yea, if this did happen I bet that his friend was white.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: cwt@mitre.org (Carl Traber)
Subject: Re: I want my Coke
Organization: Mitre Corporation, Bedford, MA.
	<1992Nov12.103042.3224@ke4zv.uucp>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:51:31 GMT

gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman) writes:

   Here in the "backward" South we use Voteomatics. The tallies are by
   machine. You punch it, the machine counts it. I happen to know that
   Kentucky uses voting machines. What states still use paper ballots
   that have to be counted by hand?

   Gary

New Hampshire still uses paper ballots.  My town (Hollis, NH) does
not appear to have any reason or inclination towards any other
national and/or state voting mechanism.

Then again, town meetings seem to use counting of raised hands for
non-crucial questions, and paper ballots for the more controversial
ones.  These methods work fine for us.

-- Carl Traber    cwt@shockley.mitre.org
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: Re: You can't fast forward through the next four years
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 02:46:51 GMT

In article <4400265@iftccu.boeing.com> bressler@iftccu.boeing.com (Rick Bressler) writes:
>How about sending a letter?  Messages are letters, telegrams and phone 
>calls.  If the election was 'sending' a message, it was awfully ambiguous.
>Everybody is still arguing over what the message was.  Three million letters,
>(one from each NRA member, for starters) would be a very 'clear message.'

Not necessarily: Congressmen don't care what you think or write; they care
how you vote. 

                                             Frank Crary
                                             CU Boulder
From: m0102@tnc.UUCP (FRANK NEY)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Need Better NRA Ads NOW !
Date: 9 Nov 92 13:04:45 GMT
Reply-To: m0102@tnc.UUCP (FRANK NEY)
Organization: The Next Challenge, Fairfax, Va.


>KILL file, meet John DeArmond

Except that John does have several valid points.  When you are
detained to have your stomach pumped by court order because some 'law
enforcement officer' saw you taking asprin in public, you'll finally
understand the real world.

I wouldn't laugh, it happened to me two months ago.  Even the ACLU
told me this is an unwinnable case.  Welcome to Nazi America.

Frank Ney N4ZHG EMT-A  LPVa NRA ILA GOA CCRTKBA "M-O-U-S-E"
Commandant and Acting President, Northern Virginia Free Militia
Send e-mail for an application and more information
----------------------------------------------------------------
"...I am opposed to all attempts to license or restrict the arming of
individuals...I consider such laws a violation of civil liberty, 
subversive of democratic political institutions, and self-defeating
in their purpose."
        - Robert Heinlein, in a 1949 letter concerning "Red Planet"
-- 
The Next Challenge - Public Access Unix in Northern Va. - Washington D.C.
703-803-0391 To log in for trial and account info.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Reality and Home Made Firearms (Was: Registering "Assault Keys")
Date: 12 Nov 92 21:09:38 GMT
	<1dn0q0INN6qa@CATHY.NA.CS.YALE.EDU>
	<1992Nov10.211153.8434@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
	<1dpes0INN95e@CATHY.NA.CS.YALE.EDU>
Organization: NMSU Computer Science

<In article <1dpes0INN95e@CATHY.NA.CS.YALE.EDU> yarvin@cs.yale.edu (Norman Yarvin) writes:

<There is no possibility an Afghan tribesman is going to manufacture a gun.
<(A sword, yes.  But it will take him a long time.)  

	Sorry, Yarvin, that is a false statement. There was far
	too much videotape and film shot of people in Pakistan
	and parts of Afghanistan manufacturing everything from
	simple zip-guns to Short Magazine Lee Enfield rifles
	to Kalashnikov look-alikes to bolt-action 12.7mm 
	anti-aircraft/anti-vehicle firearms for this claim
	to be believed.

	And these firearms were fabricated with hand tools,
	for the most part, although the "high volume" shops
	often had a drill press and grinding wheel; muscle
	powered, usually.

	Yarvin needs to look into the reality of firearms
	manufacture a bit before making assertions such as this.


<Now perhaps the Soviets
<were sufficiently inept that the Afghans could have lived on captured
<ammunition alone.  But they did not have to, for we supplied them quite a
<bit.

	Hardly. The primary weapon in Afghanistan in 1979 was the
	.303 Enfield; within 4 years, most of the muhjhaddin were
	carrying Kalashnikovs. Obviously, some of these rifles came
	from dead Soviets. Others no doubt "leaked" out of Afghan
	Army depots...just as munitions and weapons "leaked" out
	of US Army depots during the Viet Nam war.

	For the US to supply ammunition to the Afghans would have
	been absurd; it was far easier to give them money to buy
	arms and ammo on the world market.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: Spraying Bullets with Dangerous Guns
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 01:33:02 GMT

watt-alan@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt) writes:

>Maybe if Bush joins the chorus of people endorsing "assault rifle"
>bans, I will re-activate my offer.  Anyone know what Bush shoots with?
>I also thought of trying the same demo with a black-powder revolver
>with removable cylinders.  Suppose you had a pocketfull of pre-loaded
>cylinders -- how long does it take to remove a completely fired
>cylinder and replace it with a fresh one?

	If I keep the ramrod/cylinder shaft locking bolt loose, I can
do it in about five seconds.  The problem is that it takes a great deal
of practice to coordinate the hammer/cylinder movements, and it is a bit
dangerous to shoot without that shaft locked in place.  Effectively,
though, assume five to ten seconds to exchange cylinders.  If you jam
things up, expect ten to fifteen seconds to get the cylinder in.

	The gun in question is a Ruger Old Army single-action revolver
in .45 black powner.

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<  "This isn't an answer, it's a pagan dance around a midnight fire  >
<   written in intellectual runes." -- Rich Young                    >
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: sjo@cci632.cci.com (Steve Owens)
Subject: Re: NBC, CBS news reports
Organization: [Computer Consoles, Inc., Rochester, NY
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:25:23 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.151437.3706@stortek.com> vojak@icebucket.stortek.com (Bill Vojak) writes:

>Just saw a piece on the news (NBC) last night.  Last year in LA County alone,
>60 children were murdered by their parents.  No gun/knives were used, just
>strong armed murder.  70% of these kids were 2 years old or less.  This
>is in LA county ALONE.  They said that there are similar trends in other 
>areas of the country.  To hell with Gun Control,  let's start a new group
>called PCI. (Parent Control Inc).  I want mandatory traing for everyone before
>they can become a parent, permits systems on a child by child basis, a 30
>day cooling off period before conception, and no children allowed to convicted
>felons.  It's obvious that parents are far more dangerous than guns.

	Nah.  A ban on parents will take care of the problem. :-)

>Also, CBS is at it again with a special on Kids with Guns.  They had some
>bozo from Harvard saying: "We need to remove the guns from the communities".
>Not "we need to get the guns from the kids", but instead his cure is to get
>rid of all the guns.  They had to use the phrase "Drugs & Guns" at least 5
>time.  Got to create that relationship in the viewers mind over and over
>again.  

	Of course, they also never mention the fact that its illegal
for these kids to own a pistol, right?

>                                Bill Vojak
>                                Bill_Vojak@stortek.com
>                                NRA, ILA, CFC

	(sigh) And people wonder why I never watch network TV.

						Steve


------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Read between the lines                             Steven J Owens @ CCI
 Criticize the words they're selling             (716) 482-5000 Ext 2867
 Think for yourself and feel the walls                 sjo@op632.cci.com
 Become sand beneath your feet." - Queensryche "Anybody Listening?"
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman)
Subject: Re: Registering "Assault Keys"
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:11:53 GMT

In article <1dn0q0INN6qa@CATHY.NA.CS.YALE.EDU> yarvin@cs.yale.edu (Norman Yarvin) writes:
>>There's also the case of the Afganistani rebels who successfully repelled
>>the Soviet Army (including Yeltsin) with the aid of stinger missiles.
>
>I was not talking about the possibilities of producing a nationwide
>revolution of a military sort.  Such a thing is even more impossible than a
>local homeowner standing off the cops.

Really?  Then why have such nationwide revolutions succeeded 65% of
the time since 1945?

>The Afghans would never have been able to counter the Soviets without
>importing their weapons from friendly surrounding nations.

The majority of their weapons were self-manufactured or stolen.

>Stinger missiles
>may be man-portable, but they are sophisticated and expensive -- extremely
>difficult either to design or to manufacture.  The role that the Stingers
>played in the conflict was not exaggerated.

Sure it was; and Yarvin does so.  If their use was so damn important,
why did the Afghans SELL them?

>Without them, the Soviets could
>have used their armored helicopter gunships with impunity.

Note that a govt can't use helicopter gunships with impunity on its
own territory and in its own cities, no matter what the rabble is
doing.  A govt requires some base of support, and can't destroy it to
win a revolution.

-andy
--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: pes3@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Paul Eric Stoufflet)
Subject: Re: CLINTON WINS
Reply-To: pes3@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Paul Eric Stoufflet)
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 04:35:42 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.232540.2429@micom.com> jclymore@micom.com (Jimmy Clymore) writes:
>MEET THE NEW BOSS!!!!!!!!
>SAME AS THE OLD BOSS!!!!!

Or perhaps "The King is dead, long live the King"

  / \ / \     Paul Stoufflet                          / \ / \
 |  / \  |    Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center   |  / \  |
 |  \ /  |    internet: pes3@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu  |  \ /  |
  \_/_\_/     All opinions are my own                 \_/_\_/ 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: rrw@philabs.philips.com (Roger White)
Subject: Re: Fundamentalist Nightmare
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff Manor, NY.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 19:15:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov2.221952.15678@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> cs922058@ariel.yorku.ca (JEFFREY F HAY) writes:
>
>I wrote...
>Furthermore, our Canadian government allows us ""at least"" as much freedom of
>expression as it's American counterpart offers it's people.
>
>> Andy Freeman responded ...
>> Really?  Whose customs service is seizing books these days?
>
>Well, well i can site hundreds of cases where freedom of expression has been
>limited in the States. Just so you don't think i am bluffing ... whoever that
>rap singer that sang kill cops ... was banned outright all over the US.


                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     NOT BY THE GOVERNMENT!
     
>Fact is that we could both site lots of cases and would probably end up in a
>virtual tie. However if you believe, however ignorantly, that Canada restricts
>our freedom more than the U.S. does yours ... feel free to question my opinion
>so that i can show you the err of your thinking.
From: bill@wabworld.atl.ga.us (Angus MacPeevy)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Act Now!
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 23:09:07 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Shaque d'Amour

IZZYOE8@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Daniel) writes:

> AM I JUST RETARDED OR DO I HAVE A POINT?
> DANIEL


It's tough to tell.  Your entire posting was in ALL CAPS and as a result 
it was so difficult to read that I just skipped right to the bottom.  
Please, turn off your caps lock or find a terminal that works right.  

In anticipation of more readable postings, thanks.

--
"I'm not only the Hair Club president, but I'm also a client."
  -Sy Sperling
Date: Tuesday, 10 Nov 1992 16:52:36 EST
From: <34AEJ7D@CMUVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Distribution: usa
Subject: Clinton: Perot's revenge?

Did the Republicans offend Perot somewhere along the line? Was the
whole third party campaign aimed at denying the Republicans
the Presidency out of pique?

Are we having fun yet?
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns