From: rstevew@deeptht.santa-cruz.ca.us (Richard Steven Walz)
Newsgroups: alt.sex,soc.women
Subject: Re: HELP How do you help someone who won't be happy?
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 92 17:38:41 GMT
Organization: The Armory

In article <1992Apr3.075211.10859@midway.uchicago.edu> pmm7@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>>In <BLMLBs.4Jo@world.std.com> aep@world.std.com (Andrew E Page) writes:
>
>tells of his very depressed girlfriend...
>
>>amy wedell writes: 
>>>Your friend cannot help herself alone.  She needs someone to "coach"
>>>her through this.  Be the best friend you can be.  Take her out and try
>>>to have fun.  If she wants to just sit and talk, then let her.  I don't
>>>know your friend personally, so she may be an exception, but most people
>>>when they are clinically depressed (which it sounds like your friend is, 
>>>but I could be wrong since I am not a liscenced psychologist) do not
>>>like to be alone no matter how much they tell you to leave them alone.
>>>
>>>So, there are really only two things you can do for her.
>>>One is to be her friend.  And the other is to get her professional help.
>
>and then richard steven walz says:  
>>Amy, I think I disagree with you. There are a number of therapists who
>>would rather see someone come the long way by themselves and find out
>>if there is a way to feel better themselves, rather than just have
>>another try to tell them how to do it. They know that a therapist can
>>talk a person into a lot of things, but it goes away after they pay
>>for the therapist!!! No kidding. A professional can't do your internal
>>work for you, and often depression is simply a bad habit rather than a
>>life threatening illness. Sometimes you simply have to get over
>>wanting to feel bad about yourself. Check with psych texts for "cure"
>>rates for therapists vs spontaneous in this regard and you may be
>>surprised that more people seem to get over these maladies of the dark
>>night of the soul by themselves than if they turn the problem over to
>>someone else for months or years.
>
>idle curiosity, richard.  where did you get your psych or
>med degree?  depression is a medical illness.  yes, a certain 
>percentage of depressed patients get well w/out and despite 
>therapy.  so do a certain percentage of *any* medical disease.  
>
>yes, people have to work to get healthy.  no, a therapist can't
>do the work for you.  they *can* guide you, and help to diagnose
>you correctly.  
>
>i know of *no-one* for whom depression is merrely a *bad*habit*.
>check your facts before you start spouting *very* bad and
>potentially dangerous advice.  this woman shows many of the
>classic signs of *clinical*depression*, a treatable medical
>condition.  
>
>peg 

This is distilled from a book by a psychiatrist named David Cooper, M.
D. called Psychiatry & Anti-Psychiatry, in about 1974. You have a very
doctrinaire view of a profession's stature which has never had to
really prove whether it is "safe or effective" and in fact, cannot. I
believe a Dr. Satz in New York has written a book decrying the mythos
of psychiatry as well. It is no more sacred mumbo-jumbo than regular
medicine is. Many therapists have said that all most people need is a
good friend and that they go to therapists when they can't find one.

We need the same kind of revolution in psychiatric care as we have
demanded from M.D.'s in regular medicine. We need to demystify the
ailments of the mind. Didn't the "medicine for the people" efforts of
the sixties, like "Our Bodies, Ourselves" and other books and
treatises give you the thought that patients in need of therapy need
take some responsibility too for their problems. No therapist will
the patient willingly comes for therapy. And most therapists will tell
you that all most people need are close friends anyway, and that when
they can't find friends who can take time for them is the only time
they break down and go to a stranger, like a therapist. One doesn't
need degrees to make reasonable human decisions. Who licenses doctors
anyway? You and I and the rest of us do through our legislators, none
of us medically trained! And we say what is fraud or malpractice of
medicine, after being briefed about it in the jury box.   - Steve Walz
Newsgroups: soc.women