HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: zzaascd@hpa.ee.man.ac.uk (Colin Dente)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Socratic silliness (was Re: Multiple Orientations?)
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:57:21 GMT
Reply-To: zzaascd@hpa.ee.man.ac.uk (Colin Dente)
Distribution: soc.bi
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept Manchester University

In article <10898@scott.ed.ac.uk>, bethan@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Bethan Davies) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep29.063024.5478@leland.Stanford.EDU> mlloyd@westmark.Stanford.EDU (Mike Lloyd) writes:

|> >I think of Shakespeare, lauded beyond all proportion for
|> >what appear to be nationalistic reasons (I once heard Brian
|> >Gould, British MP, call him "The greatest genius who ever lived"
|> >on the BBC.  Poppycock, I say!).

Ah, but who listens to MPs anyway?  (Apart from you, that is...)

|> I have to say that 'overrated' is the word that comes to mind. Now, I
|> _do_ enjoy Shakespeare, but there are many authors who I find just as
|> fulfilling, and anyway,

Indeed.  There are many things in Shagspur which seem (at least when I read
them) to be archetypes for different situations.  Of course, the reason for
this is that so many subsequent authors have nicked Shaky's ideas (many of
them nicked from the classics), that, in some ways, they *are* archetypes.

|> I tend to go for _books_ not authors.

Yeah - but knowing a good author can take some of the uncertainty out of 
buying a book.  Having said that, buying books at random can be fun.


|> >"dulcia et decorum est, pro patria mori".  The correct 
|> >consonants have slipped away (Colin? Help?)

Nope - the consonants are fine, you just have a slight vowel problem...

|> 'dulci et decorum est, pro patria mori' (I think)

... as does Bethan.  Try:

"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori".

('dulce' - the 'it' in 'est' makes it neuter).

According to the little book I have here ("Le Mot Juste" or "The Penguin
Dictionary of Foreign Terms" (subtle shades of Shakespeare there...)) it's
by Horace.

|> (This is just to prove that I had a Real Education (tm) just like
|> Colin and Tanaqui...:)

Eek!  I'd better scotch this myth before it spreads.  I ain't no classical
scholar - I *didn't* have a Real Education (tm).  I am currently trying to
give myself one (ooh!), but currently, I am far from educated in these
matters.  If it's classics you're after, you're probably better off asking
Kay.


Colin
  Colin Dente                     | JANET: dente@uk.ac.manchester
  Manchester Computing Centre     | ARPA:  dente@manchester.ac.uk
  University of Manchester, UK    | UUCP:  ...!mcsun!ukc!manchester!dente
             	   ... I can't even *think* straight ...
From: mlloyd@westmark.Stanford.EDU (Mike Lloyd)
Subject: Re: Abba (was Re: Some fears and doubts about my sexuality)
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 92 17:02:43 GMT

ngervae@next.com (Nik Gervae) writes:
: mlloyd@westmark.Stanford.EDU (Mike Lloyd) writes:
: > Mike, who admits a certain nostlgic thrill - the Abba movie
: > soundtrack was the first music I ever bought :-)  
: 
: What was this? I never saw this! Where can I get it!? Title?

Erm, this goes back a few years, but I distinctly remember it
being sold under the title "ABBA The Movie".  My sister went to
the movie with a bunch of friends, and for some unknown reason
permitted me to tag along; to my rather juvenile eyes, it
actually seemed a rather good movie (I still remember some tosh
about an interview in an elevator).  Shortly afterwards, I
bought the (audio) tape, now long destroyed.  Stuff like
"Thankyou for the Music".

Mike, who wouldn't mind having that tape again, but would really
prefer the Jungle Book tape I was given some time earlier.
-- 
Mike Lloyd, B0/1 h- f- t w- c g+ k+ s m- e? |"Bloody nose and burning eyes
      Retro-hippy, music nut, bi and        | Raised in laughter to the skies"
          backrubber of devotion            |     - Bruce Cockburn
 ....."I suffer from internalized homophonophobia"....."Their, they're".....
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey)
Subject: Re: chocolate = sex
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center and Reptile Farm
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 19:06:38 GMT

In article <mv8qbkht@cck.coventry.ac.uk> idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>
>Only problem is: the ones that are long enough are just a tad too
>wide for me to take, and the short ones just don't contain enough
>chocolate.

So?  Why choose?  Get both sizes, and then you don't have to decide.
--scott
From: jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Weirdness
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:08:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: sdcc12.39034
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Oct4.163923.5433@ultb.isc.rit.edu> kdc5072@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.D. Colagio) writes:
+I am in the process of reading the bible (lower case for a reason <grin>)
+and what it says is that Adam and Eve had many sons and daughters
+(Genesis 5.3 - 5.5).  

I wish more people would. I feel that the bible along with a good
basis in 'the Classics' as in Greek and Roman Culture. And while
we're  at it, a good history from classical times to now. Then, a
good comparative sequence on other world system, such as Indian and
Chinese culture/history/religion.

+after checking with his religious leader (I have no idea what they are
+called in his church....) he said "yes, there is incest in the bible"

Lot and his daughters are the 'most notable'. What is interresting
is that althought the bible declares this to be a 'sin' Lot's
offspring from these relationships become 'nations', i.e. Lot and
company are not stoned/struck-dead on the spot. This also give one a
'consistency' check for the 'anti-abortion' crowd when they give
the 'abortion is terrible, except in incest and rape...'. Well if
these people are 'arguing biblically' then they have no basis to
exclude these situations from their prohibitions. This will then
lead the arguement to what it's really about 'woman seen as plowed
field, to be harvested".

+What is also interesting is that there is polygamy....<grin> I haven't
+brought that one up yet....

I have found only one statement in Paul limiting the number of wives
a man can have to one, and this in the case of a 'preacher of the
gospel'. The monogamy standard is a Roman thing, i.e.  pagan. Even
first century Jews practiced polygamy and only discontinued the
practice after the diaspora to the general Roman colonies where the
practice was not recognized.
-- 

John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu
From: mjw19@cl.cam.ac.uk (M.J. Williams)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: chocolate = sex
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:48:56 GMT
Reply-To: MJW19@phx.cam.ac.uk (M.J. Williams on cl.cam.ac.uk)
Organization: The National Society for the Inversion of Cudddly Tigers

In article <1992Sep29.191722.5760@bcrka451.bnr.ca> bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth) writes:
>John Clark writes:
>>
>> Candyman's got a stick 9 inches long,...
>
>But a foot-long bittersweet chocolate bar beats that anyday. ;)

 Do you have the giant size Toblerone in Canada? IAMFI

_______________________________________________________________________________
 \   ^   / Michael Williams                     Part II Computer Science Tripos
  |\/|\/\  MJW19@phx.cam.ac.uk                          University of Cambridge
  |  |(__) Cymdeithas Genedlaethol Traddodiad Troi Teigrod Mwythus Ben I Waered
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: chocolate = sex
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 17:42:57 GMT

In article <BvCwny.1yz@news.larc.nasa.gov> kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey) writes:
>Plus, you get to mention that you have a twelve-inch rod.  And it's 
>triangular, no less.
>--scott
>   (always a sucker for Toblerones, too)

Hmmmm... the Toblerone dildo has always been a favourite notion of mine,
though I worry a tad about the crunchy bits.

Only problem is: the ones that are long enough are just a tad too
wide for me to take, and the short ones just don't contain enough
chocolate.

				Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
From: orc@amber.uchicago.edu (David Parsons)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Multiple Orientations?
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:03:20 GMT
Reply-To: orc@sybase.com (If you're lucky!)
Organization: Ministry of Skritching

In article <1992Sep28.194234.1193@leland.Stanford.EDU>
mlloyd@westmark.Stanford.EDU (Mike Lloyd, whom it's always worthwhile to
flirt with) writes, about Socrates choosing death over censorship:
|What a twit!
|The unexamined life is indeed something of a waste, but to choose to
|die just because people don't like your opinions?  That's daft!

   Before people start leaping upon Mike(*) for making this comment
that has a distressing parallel to the closet, note that isn't not
completely the same.  Running away to fight another day is almost
always better than fighting and dying today (as some of us may do if
the Nazi^H^H^H^HRepublican party wins the November election/referendum
on human rights.)

   (* leaping upon, in this context, isn't quite as interesting as it
would be in some others, as may be demonstrated next saturday.)

                 ____
   david parsons \bi/ orc@sybase.com
		  \/
From: zen@death.corp.sun.com (d)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Socratic silliness (was Re: Multiple Orientations?)
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:50:17 GMT
	<1992Sep28.223504.4177@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Organization: savage hackers
NNTP-Posting-Host: death.corp.sun.com
In-reply-to: mlloyd@westmark.Stanford.EDU's message of Mon, 28 Sep 92 22:35:04 GMT


In article <1992Sep28.223504.4177@leland.Stanford.EDU> mlloyd@westmark.Stanford.EDU (Mike Lloyd) writes:
   [...]
> A good point, well made.  In my defense, I'll point out that it is
> precisely the _death_ part that I objected to.
> [...]
> I guess I still
> see some sacredness, some superb, colossal joke in human life,
> and it's a pity to throw one away for something as petty as
> *ideas* ....

  Sigh... I disagree, as usual... *laugh*...

  As *petty* as ideas?  Where would we be if people didn't stand up for
what they believed in?  The liberties, freedoms, and way of life that
some of us enjoy are directly related to people who gave their lives for
such things.  Most religions and governments, if you take stock of such
stuff, are based on the blood of some person or people.  It may be that
that has caused more problems than not... but... you didn't seem to be
saying that.

[...]
> There is an appropriate
> time to die in opposition, but it's very rare.

  It seems that you're being very arbitrary here.  Dissing people who
die for something that they believe is important, but then saying that
you do think that some things are that important after all.  What do you
think is important enough to die for?  When I look at history, it's not
actions of some person that I typically think of -- it's the ideas and
concepts that people did.  Most (to me, at least) of the "great" people
in the world were thinkers, not merely (wo)men of action (or their
actions followed their words so closely that it is hard to distinguish
the two.)  Thankfully most of them didn't have to die for their
thoughts, but... many people with wonderful ideas did die violently.  I
wonder what would happen if they had backed down when challenged.

  In a sense, I can see your point -- *you* don't want to die, and
wouldn't, for such things.  But saying it's foolish, say, for socrates
to do what he did?  I don't understand.  I think what he did pointed out
both the nobility and courage of some, while highlighting the dangers
that can befall a society that discourages freedom of expression.  I
don't know that he could have done so if he fled instead of dying... it
may have been a bum deal for socrates, but I pray that his lesson (and
other teachers of his ilk) hasn't died with his cup.

 -- d
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: vikki here for the first time,
Date: 2 Oct 92 12:56:56 GMT
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Followup-To: soc.bi
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu

In article <s882916.717839639@otto> s882916@otto (Vikki POLLARD) writes:
>
> Hello there everyone. I'm sick of just reading your articles 
> and not replying so here iam.

Welcome!
 
> I, too have seen  the photos Joe Woodhouse was sent, 
> in fact I think every person in Melbourne has seen them. 
> Joe stops people on the corners and says "hey look at my 
> beautiful photos." I must admit they are quite cute especially 
> that one of Mike. Hmm. I'll be in the US sometime next year!!!!!

We tremble in anticipation...

(We should start a soc.bi travel agency ;)

> Well i don't have much else to say. Except maybe some one could give 
> me some advice. I'm fucking this gut at the present time but i'm a 
> bit worried about his PC ness shall we say. He isn't political at all 
> and has no social consciousness. It kinds of worries me a bit to be 
> giving my energy to this guy. Should I just fuck him and enjoy it or 
> should i only give my energy to people that i beleive in. You know 
> those with a consciousness??? Gotta go Bye.

You have to set your own priorities.  How politically active/aware someone 
is would be only one factor that I would look at in context of the
rest of their behavior and worldview. Have they just not thought about
it or is it a deliberate decision?  Do they respect your (presumablely
different) outlook? Are they confused, willfully clueless or sort of
together but different?  What are they aware of/interested in?
Are they good in bed? ;)  How much "energy" do you have. etc. etc.

-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
 alunde@nuacvm.bitnet |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: h431@quads.uchicago.edu (heather e blair)
Subject: Re: Socratic silliness (was Re: Multiple Orientations?)
Reply-To: h431@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:16:27 GMT

In article <38837@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark) writes:

>Which brings up
>Aristotle. He was a Macedonian and hence had vertually no rights
>that couldn't be easily done away with, hence his flight from Athens
>when the going got rought (Being a Macedonian at the time was about
>the same as being from Arkansas in the US), then came Alexander.

Funny you should bring up Arkansas.  I'm from Arkansas.  

>Also as Plato aged his writings became more 'conservative' as
>compared in the 'Replic' (early), and the 'laws' (late, and
>sometimes contested). However, I really don't think that Plato was
>ever as prudish as many moderns, as given by the fact that he does
>allow Socrates at least 'lecherous' glances if not acts.

Nice point!
>
>On the issue of homosexuality and the Athenian mind set of the 4-5
>BCE era, the classification of 'gay married' really doesn't make
>sense. The arranged marriages of the time and the lack of 'love'
>requirement, the marriage for production of children and their
>support, is very different than what we would call 'marriage' even
>in the 'worst' of concepts.

Hey, don't you think the "family values" people want us queers to 
enter into loveless matches with motos?  For the production of children
and their support?  The only difference is that we have to do our own 
arranging.  

>
>The idea of 'man' and 'woman' was more of 'man' and 'less than man',
>i.e. woman. So Socrates was exhibiting a 'love' for the 'highest' of
>the human species, i.e. he had a 'choice' another man or a slightly
>factured 'man'. 

A lot of conservative gay men still think this way.  Sad, ain't it.
>
>John Clark
>jclark@ucsd.edu


-- 

- Heather Blair       h431@midway.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Ellen's Pix...
From: pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 00:01:13 GMT
Organization: Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, CA - aka Barnum & Bailey

cliveg@cix.compulink.co.uk (Clive Grace the adorable) wrote...
>Look, I have a copy of the pictures here with me, I've been too busy 
>firefighting my problems to properly do anything with them and I feel 
>guilty hoarding them, Ellen, can I give them to anyone you would want 
>them to go to? Would Bethan want them? or Angi or Colin or Tanaqui or
>....?

You do want to start a free for all don't you? :-)
Dare I say I trust your judgement?
My only suggestion is that since Sara has a set, you may want to choose
someone who is a bit further south than Edinburgh (while still staying
on the same island.)

Ellen
From: rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: being "in love"
Date: 7 Oct 92 02:34:11 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <67266@cup.portal.com> Drakon@cup.portal.com (HARRY BENJAMIN GIBSON) writes:

->But unforunately it has been my experience that most humans sleepwalk thru
->life, never thinking, never questioning, never feeling. I wouldn't call it
->bad or wrong or sick, I would call it tragic.

Oh my ... *bingo*, Ben ... couldn't have said it better ... that's _exactly_
how I feel about the way I was up to 122 days ago ... 

->I think attempting to show that we can feel the same for someone with our 
->plumbing as they do for someone with different plumbing might work. After all
->love is supposed to be Christian virtue:)

One of the warmest moments I had talking to straights was about a month ago
when I was talking to a devout Christian about homosexuality and
christianity, and she said something along the lines of "If you end up in
hell for being queer, I don't want to be in heaven."


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roy S. Rapoport         rsr@soda.berkeley.edu          bi-bdsm@ocf.berkeley.edu
          Yet another victim of the most dangerous man on Usenet.
DISCLAIMER:  "I meant every word of it ... but nobody else did."
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: mlloyd@westmark.Stanford.EDU (Mike Lloyd)
Subject: Re: Yay!
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 23:48:58 GMT

[another post from Mike - get the impression he's avoiding real
work? *grin*]

Drakon@cup.portal.com (HARRY BENJAMIN GIBSON) writes:
: I disagree with the last post. (Damn reader won't let me include)
: 
: I don't sense that the primary difference is olfactory, It is textile.
: I notice a man feels different than a woman, The musclature is different,
: the skin is different, (again not talking about stubble)

Well, musculature yes, but I see that as largely socially conditioned,
and the types I hang around with are often quite far from social
norms, I guess.  Recently I was giving a backrub to an amatuer
but dedicated singer - hir back-muscles are *really* impressive!
Now it so hapens that sie's a he, fitting stereotype, but I suspect
a similarly practiced female would have a similar muscle structure
from the repeated breath control.

Skin, though, I see even less difference in.  Again, women are
taught better care techniques, but I've certainly encountered
sufficient variation between individuals to make it hard to
say *purely* on that basis what sex the person was.  This is
confounded with the >>Wonderful<< variation in skin-textures
in an individual over time and states of arousal (or other).
There's *nothing* quite like skin, male or female, especially
when it's glad to see you ... *beam*

Still, I guess my objections are slightly spurious in that smell
is also affected by acculturation (and use of icky chemicals).
However, I think (am I wrong?) that smell is a widespread
distinguishing feature for most animals, including humans.
This may also be true of musculature and skin texture, but
I suspect it'd prove less so if you could strip away the
layers of stereotyping we carry.

Just another tuppence

Mike, humming "There's nothing quite as wonderful as Honey" (to make
a Pythonism into a Poohism)
-- 
Mike Lloyd, B0/1 h- f- t w- c g+ k+ s m- e? |"Bloody nose and burning eyes
      Retro-hippy, music nut, bi and        | Raised in laughter to the skies"
          backrubber of devotion            |     - Bruce Cockburn
 ....."I suffer from internalized homophonophobia"....."Their, they're".....
From: h431@quads.uchicago.edu (heather e blair)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: I'm unhappy
Date: 28 Sep 92 02:50:42 GMT
Reply-To: h431@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Sep17.231722.9664@latcs1.lat.oz.au> woodhous@latcs2.lat.oz.au (Joe P Woodhouse) writes:
>
>   I'm really upset because soc.bi, which is the only completely friendly
>& safe space I have, has got all sorts of nasty things happening in it
>now. One of my loves summed it up perfectly when they said "...I'm reading
>soc.bi and feeling bad! I don't read soc.bi to feel bad!".

I think it may have calmed down now.  That odd guy with the dick hanging
out the window brought up lots of anger.  I'm not sure it did us all good
or evil.
>
>   I should be really happy. I've got lots of good news that I'd normally
>want to be madly posting and telling everyone about.
>
>   But I can't. It's not appropriate any more.
>
I want to read your good news, joe.

>   Soc.bi is the last place I would have thought to find harassment &
>abuse. And even here I can't get away from it.
>
>   I feel sick.

I think the group will get back to normal.
>
>Joe.
>no .sig this time either


-- 

- Heather Blair       h431@midway.uchicago.edu
From: fenthe@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Blueberry Demuffinings.
Date: 6 Oct 92 12:27:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: drycas.1992Oct6.172709.2209
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <j5qz80p@rpi.edu>, safarj@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Jonah Emanuel Safar) writes:
> 
>  Sorry to be a bit off the wall, but I find it hard to take myself seriously
> after spending the majority of fourty hours awake.  I'm sure there are those
> of you who understand the feeling.  I've posted here once or twice on various
> subjects, nothing truly worthy of comment, and I've followed the various 
> threads as they've wound their sundry ways.  Just thought I'd finally suit
> actions to words and send out a more general greeting to the world at large.
>  So, erm... 'Hi.'

  Hi! Welcome to soc.bi!

  <sfx: yay!s happily at another muffin's arrival>

>  Well, either I am out of words, or I am just too tired to think of any more,
> so I'll just make a few parting comments then curl up again on the bed with
> my box of tissues (let's hear it for the common cold). 

 Aw..

 **hugs,snuggles, and generally warming'n comforting-type things**

-- 
Daniel Mitchell = Fenthe Marten = fenthe@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu =
m91djm@ecs.ox.ac.uk = dmitchell@cix.compulink.co.uk = bi furry juggler
Snailmail: 18, High St // Earls Colne // Essex CO6 2PA // ENGLAND