From: kalki33!system@lakes.trenton.sc.us
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Probability of Evolution
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 92 04:45:25 EST
Reply-To: kalki33!system@lakes.trenton.sc.us
Organization: Kalki's Infoline BBS, Aiken, SC, USA

kv07@IASTATE.EDU (Warren Vonroeschlaub) writes:

> > Yes, we agree that if matter is somehow manipulated under the control of
> > a sufficiently advanced computer program --and that necessarily means a
> > computer programmer too-- then the body of a living organism can be
> > formed out of simple materials. The more advanced the computer --and
> > that means the more knowledgable the programmer-- the faster this can be
> > accomplished. If the programmer is intelligent enough, he can write a
> > program that will turn stones into bread in a nanosecond!
> 
>   1) Do you know any programming?  Download and examine the Tierra simulator.
> The program does not do anything to the artificial life it is simulationg exc
> obey their commands and randomly mutate them.
> 
>   2) The universe can be viewed as a computer processor.  The laws of physics
> are the assembly code, the atoms & molecules are commands & data.

And who, in this analogy, is the programmer?

> 
>   3) No computer can be programmed to change reality, trust me on this.

So the computer that is programmed to control the operation of a
gene-splicer is not changing reality? What do you mean by "reality",
then? If you mean matter, then certainly a computer can be programmed to
change matter. The electrons that are in the computer are changing their
positions as a direct result of the program being run.

> 
> > But the best computer in the universe will do nothing without being
> > programmed, and it will never be programmed unless a living person comes
> > along and programs it. And of course the computer will never exist in
> > the first place unless someone designs and builds it.
>

>   False assumption.  First, the universe _is_ a computer (so to speak).  Seco
> the mear existence of code actives the Universe 1.0, one atom and it is up &
> running, no programmer needed.

Where did the code come from, if there is no programmer?

> 
> > So what is your point? That you agree with us that life was caused by an
> > intelligent being? If not, then what becomes of your computer example?
> 
>   The point was that the life wasn't created by an intelligent being.  The
> "physical laws" were determined by a human, but the rest happened on its own.

If the "physical laws" were determined by a human, then where was the
human before he invented the laws? Where did the human come from, since
he could not have been produced by the action of the laws, which did not
exist until he determined them?

I don't know, prabhu, your statements seem to be getting less and less
scientific.

Sincerely,
Kalki Dasa



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