From: cantrell@seqp4.sequoia.com (Paul Cantrell)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Countersteering a shafty
Date: 31 Aug 92 15:26:28 GMT
Organization: Sequoia Computer Systems

In article <4010.2A986D28@kennel.FIDONET.ORG>, john@kennel.FIDONET.ORG (John Hamilton) writes:
> I will agree that a very very slow (any diameter) turn can be initiated
> and completed without countersteer (which is to say, front wheel always
> points left for a left turn and right for a right turn, never crossing
> zero degrees into the opposite quadrant), because I've done it several
> times. It feels unnatural to lean out of the turn to hold the bike up
> when you know you will fall over away from the turn, but you don't. As
> long as you NEVER countersteer during the turn.
> 
> Are you willing to let me take your motorcycle, put a steering head lock
> on it so it can't turn right (or left, your choice) and then you do a turn,
> say 100 feet in diameter, 90 degrees entrance to exit, in the direction
> of the quandrant the front wheel CAN turn in? All you have to do is ride
> 25 yards to the curve, negotiate the curve, and ride 25 yards past the
> exit of the curve, without touching any part of your body to the road.
> 
> Lets say, you have to maintain a speed of 40 miles per hour, that should
> be quite easy and normal for such a curve, eh?

I think John is a little confused here. He's confusing countersteering with
how the front wheel acts during a turn. Countersteering is when you apply
some sort of pressure to the handlebars in order to initiate lean. Any
other method of initiating lean isn't countersteering. As several people
have pointed out, a weight shift with your hands off the handlebars will
initiate a turn just fine, although generally this is slower than counter-
steering.

Part of how fast this is depends on the weight of the bike. My current
bike (a ZX-10 which weighs somewhere around 500 pounds) responds quite
slowly to weight shifts. However, some of the dirt bikes I've raced
were quite nimble. Rapid turns can be initiated with both wheels on the
ground, or even with only one wheel. The "tests" that have been proposed
by several people would be trivial on the 250 CC motorcrosser I used to
race (An Husqavarna which was light enough I could easily pick it up and
carry it - and I'm not that strong).

Final point - an old bike I had as a kid would do extended wheelies. I
could ride as long as I wanted to with the front wheel in the air. A
5 mile wheelie was no big deal. For the people who want to bring up
gyroscopic precession, great - but that stops after the first minute
or so when the front wheel stops spinning. The entire rest of the
wheelie is controlled by weight shift. In the case of this bike, I
could negotiate twisty roads, 90 degree turns at intersections, and
even do U-turns on a narrow road, all without touching the front wheel.

Countersteering is just one way to lean a bike. It works great, I use it
all the time, but don't get so wrapped up in it that you believe it's the
only "right" way to turn.

Paul
--
cantrell@sequoia
'89 ZX-10	(haven't tried an extended wheelie on this beast yet,
		 probably won't)
-- 
cantrell@sequoia.com
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles