HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: zrepachol@cc.curtin.edu.au (Paul Repacholi)
Subject: Re: Have you heard of the Religious Left?
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 18:24:41 GMT

In article <1992Sep16.091717.17830@nntp.uoregon.edu>, eisimps@cie.uoregon.edu (Eileen Simpson) writes:
> 
...
> situation is that the "we need to stand up to the new Hitler or Nazi"
> argument is made on very weak facts. The times when a situation like
> Germany really exists are few and far between.
> 
Iraq, Iran, whats left of Yugoslavia, North and South Korea off the top of my
head. Don't know enough of Africa and S America, but I would expect a few from
each. Chile is probably a good candidate.

~Paul

Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton
From: news@brtph560.bnr.ca (Usenet News)
Subject: BILL GORE THE QUAYLE IN THE BUSH!!
Organization: bnr
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1992 20:03:25 GMT

Hey BILL GORE THE QUALYE IN THE BUSH!!!!!!
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: Bob Dornan on Bill Clinton - IMPORTANT
From: dfriedman@misvax.mis.arizona.edu (D R Friedman)
Date: 4 Oct 1992 13:55 MST  
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona MIS Department
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <Oct.4.01.05.38.1992.21212@andromeda.rutgers.edu>, detrolio@andromeda.rutgers.edu (David De Trolio) writes...
> 
>     Rep. Bob Dornan has been speaking on C-Span in the House
>live concerning Bill Clinton and his anti-war, anti-Vietnam
>protests during his college days.
> 
>    Most specificly, in 1970, Bill Clinton was invited to go
>to Moscow to be part of the so called "Peace Movement".  During
>this time period, an American in the former Soviet Union had to
>be invited by the Communist govt., and they had to have prior
>knowledge or provide instruction on where he may travel along
>with what he may say while in the former Soviet Union.
> 
>     This is the same Bill Clinton who, while at Oxford, sought
>information on either obtaining dual citizenship or obtaining
>British citizenship.
> 
>     Is this the individual the American people should send to
>The White House?
> 
>     Rep. Bob Dornan should be addressing the house again this
>weekend.  I urge those concerned about what I have briefly outlined
>here to call:
> 
>UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
>WASHINGTON, D.C. 20515
> 
>(202) 224-3121
> 
>     Your can either ask for Rep. Dornan's office or staff, or attempt
>to reach your own.  This information must be presented to the American
>public, and the events which occurred there must be researched and
>addressed by Bill Clinton.
> 
> 
>-- 
>---------------------------------
>     David De Trolio
>---------------------------------
>(detrolio@andromeda.rutgers.edu)

Who the hell cares anymore?  Rep.Dornan was a check bouncer and maybe he
should be focusing on economic issues since the Soviet Government does
not exist anymore.  Anyways, in 1970 some people I know went to Laos,
Cambodia and North Vietnam to kill people and I don't think we were
supposed to exist and do things.  Also remember:

In the 60s and 70s Ross Perot wanted to go to North Vietnam
Richard Nixson went to China
Kissinger went to North Vietnam 
50,000 Vets marched against the war
And a whole bunch of us threw our medals against the Pentagon because of
the bullshit that the government laid on us vets.  

A lot of us Vietnam Vets became real interested in peace movements after
coming home to America and were labelled as "communists" and the like by
ilk with the same political philosophy as Rep. Dornan.  Maybe Dornan
should explain why he votes against upgrading veterans facilities and
supports gving money to savings and loan bailouts.

Damn these pin head politicians with no vision.

Denny 
-------------------------------------
Imagination is the beginning of creation.  You imagine what you desire, you 
will what you imagine, and at last you create what you will.
From: sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: The essence of Clinton
Date: 6 Oct 92 07:54:19 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio


No, I don't plan to be Secretary of State, just a politically incorrect
writer :-)



Simon
Xref: sparky alt.politics.bush:7075 alt.politics.clinton:7678 alt.politics.elections:14576
From: yount@crchh473.BNR.CA (Jeff Yount)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.elections
Subject: Republican cowardice in Dallas
Date: 29 Sep 92 14:58:25 GMT
Reply-To: yount@crchh473.BNR.CA (Jeff Yount)
Organization: BNR

It looks like we had another "Penn State" style George Bush
photo-op here in Dallas yesterday. According to the article
this morning in the Dallas Morning News, which could never
be called "liberal media", George's appearance was restricted
to Bush supporters. When as many as 200 protesters, many wearing
beaks or chicken outfits, tried to disrupt the event from
outside the main area, Bush first tried to say that Clinton
was the chicken and then just told the people to "get outta
here." He's told that to alot of us in the past four years.
The DMN article written by Ann Scales and Laurie Wilson states
in part:
---
  Several protesters managed to get inside the barricaded area to
hear Mr. Bush's speech, including Stephanie Sheldon, a senior at
Southern Methodist University, and some of her friends.
  The students, supporters of Mr. Clinton, said they gained entry
by telling security they were from SMU's Young College Republicans
club. They put down their Clinton/Gore placards, only to be
handed the signs through a fence by people on the outside.
  Tywanna Malone, who lives in the 4300 block of Swiss Avenue,
didn't get to hear Mr. Bush's speech. She said she was escorted
out by authorities because she was overheard criticizing the
president's visit.
  "I was telling the guy who rented the property, 'Yeah, you'll
close down this one, but there are two more (crack houses) down
the street. '"she said.
---  
Most of the local news agencies mentioned the protesters, and a
few mentioned the restrictions on entrance. One TV station showed
a Bush campaign official telling a Clinton supporter "When you rent
a house, you can throw your own party." But I noticed that the 
national media portrayed the event as some kind of Texas Bush love
fest. 
Chicken George, why don't you "get outta here."

Just say no to photo-op presidents.
George Bush thinks the presidency is just a cerimonial position.
Vote Clinton/Gore in November.
Leadership for a change.
Xref: sparky alt.politics.bush:7163 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:6070 alt.politics.clinton:7779
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: It gets bigger (was Re: The Big Lie)
Keywords: significant words from a document used as an index to content
Date: 30 Sep 92 00:25:34 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <BvCxJr.DAp@news.cso.uiuc.edu> StarOwl@uiuc.edu writes:
>mzhao@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Min Zhao) writes in reply to Anwar Mohammed's
>article:
>
>[Multiple screenfulls of quoted text deleted.... Come on now people!  Quote
> as little as possible.  Only include previously posted text that is
> relevant to your comments.]
>
>:     Amazing, this guy listed all the numbers and estimates, but didn't
>: list source of reference.  
>
>No, but he did say,
>
>: >[I can e-mail you the references as I dig them up, if you like, although
>: >they'll likely be dismissed as products of the deluded mainstream press
>: >or "conservative tools of the media".]
>
>Yes, I would rather he posted the references right there, but it seems
>like appropriate foot/endnoting of arguments is next to nonexistant on
>USENET....  At least he did say that he has references, and that he
>is willing to name them to people who express an interest.

Well, I was being a little lazy about it.  I'll repost an
annotated version with references to articles, reports and
organizations soon.  I'd figured the numbers weren't so 
important as I'd basically deferred by picking mostly pessimistic
estimates.  My main goal was to challenge the blame apportionment
many seem to mindlessly accept. Do we blame the government of Iraq, 
which launched an unprovoked attack on, refused to leave, and 
annexed a peaceful neighbor and then subsequently proceeded to 
slaughter tens to hundreds of thousands of its own civilians? Or 
the government of the U.S., which, with international approval, 
launched a military operation to reverse this act of aggression?

I don't want to get off the real issue, which is that John 
Palmer doesn't seem to want to get caught in a lie.  He claims
that he has an Amnesty International report sitting in front of 
him which says "the U.S. killed 250,000 innocent people".
We're still waiting.



-- 
Anwar Mohammed                FREE       Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu              THE       School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043     KUWAITI       Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739        POWS       Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
From: bagchi@eecs.umich.edu (Ranjan Drzzzzt!  Bagchi)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: Democrats & Hippocracy
Date: 4 Oct 92 17:42:29 GMT
Organization: Recreational Creationists, Inc.


	Don't meant to be culturally elit(e) or anything, but
it's spelled "Hypocrisy."

	-rj
--
Ranjan Bagchi					       Ranjan.Bagchi@umich.edu
		Don't trust anything with an odd number of lips
oo   oooo  o oo   ooo oo oo   oo       o o  oooo ooo o       o        oooooooo
From: fox@cs.nyu.edu (David Fox)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: Bush Never Had to Fight an Unjust War
Date: 7 Oct 92 02:48:43 GMT
	<1992Oct5.232634.14126@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>
	<1992Oct06.145614.26643@watson.ibm.com>
	<1992Oct6.234015.29976@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>
Organization: Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences

In article <1992Oct6.234015.29976@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> shackeld@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (david m shackelford ) writes:

   >Exactly what law did Clinton break?

   The one prohibiting false official statements to obtain
   deferment from military service.  (Re: the letter stating
   he intended to enter ROTC which is shown by his subsequent
   actions to be false.  He never intended to complete ROTC...)

Subsequent actions can not prove an intention or lack thereof.
Otherwise it would be illegal for Bush not to build on his vacant lot
and move to Texas, since he sent a letter of intent that he would do
so in order to dodge his taxes.
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
From: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Subject: Re: The essence of Clinton
Reply-To: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 06:05:25 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.034944.1999@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth) writes:
>
>We always hear when someone calls Quayle an idiot, but how often do we
>hear when someone calls Clinton a socialist??

Er, whenever Bush has opened his mouth this past season?

Quayle has been called an idiot more often partially because he's been
in the national spotlight for quite a whiles longer than this campaign
season.


--
"Sounds interesting....  Sounds interesting...."
				-- Homer Simpson
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
From: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Subject: Re: Bush Never Had to Fight an Unjust War
Reply-To: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 17:55:09 GMT

In article <crb2.718039930@Ra.MsState.Edu> crb2@Ra.MsState.Edu (Chad R. Berthelson) writes:
>fox@cs.nyu.edu (David Fox) writes:
>
>>I don't think a man who was never confronted with the dilemma
>>of an unjust war and an unjust selective service system is
>>really qualified to be president.
>
>HUH?  What are you rambling about?  No war is 'just', and the selective service
>system wouldn't enter into Bush's history anyway...He joined on his own accord,
>as early as legally possible.  The only people who worry about the selective
>service being unjust are those who don't want to be in the military (the
>ones that would DODGE A DRAFT to get out of it).

Mr. J. Danforth Quayle.
Mr. Patrick Buchanan
etc.

The selective service, as it was organized, was unjust in that the
wealthier segments of the population could find ways out of it.  As
always, the less well-off bore the brunt of the fighting.

>The war in VN was as 'just
>as the one in the gulf.  We went to keep a communist country from forcibly
>taking over another country.

Vietnam can be legitimately seen as a War of Independence.  See Neil
Sheenan's _A Bright Shining Lie_.  Also, I believe the Pentagon Papers
discusses the roots of the war (the US's rejection of Ho Chi Minh's
pleas for aid in favor of re-establishing French colonialism, to put
it bluntly.  There were other geopolitical concerns, of course, but in
many ways this was a cynical repudiation of stated American ideals of
self-determination.)  The regime imposed on South Vietnam was in many
ways less legitimate than the Communist regime in Hanoi.

Granted the Iraqi regime is socialistic.  The Gulf War was never
couched in such terms.  Hitler was a more appealing image, though
perhaps just as wrong.  Your statement tends to imply a global
Communist conspiracy for world domination.  Clearly, this was not the
case.

>
>You my friend (and I use that loosely) are a pinko.

Since we'll throw names back and forth, we can call you a McCarthyite
(if only for the "pinko" quip), or at least one who does not want to
reasonably discuss the morality of a conflict, and would instead
follow blindly.


--
"Sounds interesting....  Sounds interesting...."
				-- Homer Simpson
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton
From: StarOwl@uiuc.edu (StarOwl)
Subject: Re: Slick Willy's Peace Movement
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Reply-To: StarOwl@uiuc.edu
Organization: Actuarial Science Program at UIUC
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 05:23:15 GMT
Keywords: significant words from a document used as an index to content

green@plains.NoDak.edu (Brad Green) writes:

: So, what was he doing over there?  How about leading candlelight marches
: to the US Embassy to put crosses in front of it?  How about going to
: Oslo in January of 69 to meet with draft evaders and deserters at the
: Institute For Peace Research?  How about taking a peace train to Moscow,
: where he described it as having a "very friendly atmosphere" in a 1989
: article?  (At a time when Moscow was supplying the bullets to kill
: soldiers in Viet Nam.)
: 
: Seems Boy Clinton was a little more than a draft dodger.

Man with a conscience, maybe?

--
Michael Adams (aka StarOwl)	 		"Republicans understand the
Internet:  StarOwl@uiuc.edu			 importance of bondage between
Bitnet:    FREE1217@UIUCVMD			 parent and child."
Anonymous: wi.5467@n7kbt.rain.com			-- Dan Quayle
UUCP:      ...!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!StarOwl                                    

Marrou/Lord in '92
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
Subject: QUAYLE QUOTES LIST
From: emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp)
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:00:59 -0600
From: strom@Watson.Ibm.Com (Rob Strom)
Subject: Re: Bush Never Had to Fight an Unjust War
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 14:56:14 GMT
Organization: IBM Research

In article <1992Oct5.232634.14126@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>, shackeld@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (david m shackelford ) writes:

|> nation.  We got into Viet Nam because the President decided
|> it was necessary for national security.  We entered every
|> other war for the same reason.  
|> 

Please reread the Constitution.  The president cannot
declare war.

And if every war the president decides to fight
is "just" by definition, then it's not surprising
that you think we've never been in an unjust war.


|> There is no dilemma involved -- the only right choice is
|> to obey the law.  (Or leave and never come back)  The
|> only people who are qualified to be President are law-
|> abiding citizens.
|> 
|> Clinton broke the law, and is unqualified to be President.
|> 

Exactly what law did Clinton break?
-- 
Rob Strom, strom@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7641
IBM Research, 30 Saw Mill River Road, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598
From: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: Bush Never Had to Fight an Unjust War
Date: 7 Oct 92 03:05:01 GMT
Reply-To: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Organization: Columbia University

In article <1992Oct6.232616.29823@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> shackeld@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (david m shackelford ) writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.043049.11014@news.columbia.edu > egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy) writes:
> >In article <1992Oct5.232634.14126@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> shackeld@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (david m shackelford ) writes:
> >>
> >>The United States has never participated in an unjust war.
> >>Neither is the selective service system unjust.  The fundamental
> >>principle involved is that the citizens of a nation should
> >>be required to take action to preserve the security of that
> >>nation.  We got into Viet Nam because the President decided
> >>it was necessary for national security.  We entered every
> >>other war for the same reason.  

Oh, one more thing: leaving it solely for the President to decide who
the enemy is may be a tad dangerous, no?  Concentration of power and
all that.  War is a serious business, and should be open to public
debate, not the whim of the Executive branch.

And let me amend my argument slightly: war is amoral, neither
just nor unjust.  We should consider the morality of the policy
driving the war.

> >>
> >>There is no dilemma involved -- the only right choice is
> >>to obey the law.  (Or leave and never come back)  The
>
>  Clarification : with respect to military service...
>
> >>only people who are qualified to be President are law-
> >>abiding citizens.
> >>
> >>Clinton broke the law, and is unqualified to be President.
> >
> >I hope this was a joke.  If not, I want you to think carefully
> >about what you said.  Authority should not be questioned if
> >Authority has done something you feel is morally wrong? 
>
>I omitted an important parenthetical remark in my above post.
>The discussion is aimed at military service, not "civil disobedience"
>We have to assume the responsibility of citizens to protect our
>country or the existence of our country is jeapordized.

Granted that there should be discipline and a clear chain of command
for the military to function effectively, but shouldn't soldiers be
able to express their views?  And soldiers are still accountable for
their actions.  They cannot commit atrocities and say that they
were following orders.  Even if they put on a uniform, they are still
moral actors, and should be able to express their opinion.

In any case, Clinton was not in the military at the time.  He was still
a private citizen and should be able to express his displeasure at the
war.  In the end, you consider his resistance to the war an illict
act of protest.  I, however, do not.


--
"Sounds interesting....  Sounds interesting...."
				-- Homer Simpson
Xref: sparky alt.politics.bush:6814 alt.politics.clinton:7355 alt.politics.elections:14353
From: cdpert01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: Another example of the UNBIASED media!
Date: 27 Sep 92 17:52:17 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1992Sep27.164058.22154@athena.mit.edu>, wdstarr@athena.mit.edu (William December Starr) writes:
>
     [substantive text deleted] 
> 
> (Y'know, just _once_ I'd like to see the President make a congratulatory 
> phone call to the locker room of the winning team in the World Series,
> Super Bowl or NBA Championship Series or something and have the team
> captain, still in his uniform and soaked with cheap champagne, say
> something like, "Well, thanks for the phone call, Mr.  President, but
> don't you have any real work that you should be doing right now?" :-)
> 
> -- William December Starr <wdstarr@athena.mit.edu>
>
     I bet that our friends in Arkansas felt the same way when
they saw their Governor appear on MTV, the Arsenio Hall Show, 
and Donahue -- the same Governor who promised in 1990 to complete 
the 1991-1995 gubernatorial term if elected.  I sure hope that
this promise is fulfilled....

     C. Perttunen
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
From: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Subject: Re: The essence of Clinton
Reply-To: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 17:57:50 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.170640.16600@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth) writes:
>
>I hate Clinton--something to add "Economic policy found in Communist Manifesto,
>his name mentioned in the book of Revelation!!"

Huh?  Ah, I see.  A further decent into some sort of inanity.
I guess we may have been equally harsh to Bush and Quayle, but
at least there's a measure of cleverness in talking about the Shrub
and the Vice Shrub.


--
"Sounds interesting....  Sounds interesting...."
				-- Homer Simpson
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
From: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Subject: Re: Slick Willy's Peace Movement
Keywords: significant words from a document used as an index to content
Reply-To: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 03:41:07 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.225041.12890@rchland.ibm.com> jdahl@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Jared Dahl) writes:
>
>(PS- Aces of the Pacific(WWII PC game) has a GWHB mission)  

There is an interesting article in the current New Republic (October
12, the one with the picture from the Republican National Convention
on the cover) about how Bush's story about bailing out of his Avenger
has changed several times over the years.  The versions contradict
each other, and contradict the account from an eyewitness (the tailgunner
from the plane in front of his).

>
>Jared "Vote Clinton-Bush can't play Jazz" Dahl

GHWB in a Karaoke Bar!  "Tomorrow, tomorrow, it's only a day a-way!"


--
"I was trying to figure out which of my friends were hedgehogs, and which
were foxes...."
"Shakespeare wrote _King Lear_, NOT _King Leo_...."
Xref: sparky alt.politics.bush:7227 talk.politics.misc:48660
From: fay@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
Subject: not-George
Date: 5 Oct 92 12:55:53 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

If you think that Bush has done a good job, vote for him.

If you think Bush has done a bad job, vote for Clinton.

Don't just vote for someone who is not-George, because enough splintering of
the not-George vote means that we will again have George.

And don't stay home w/o voting.  The non-vote helps Bush too.
Xref: sparky alt.politics.bush:7811 alt.politics.clinton:8588 alt.rush-limbaugh:6601
From: mvp@netcom.com (Mike Van Pelt)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton,alt.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Slick Willy's Peace Movement
Date: 6 Oct 92 08:44:45 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Oct5.220240.8299@dbsun.uucp> hulsey@dbsun.uucp (hulsey) writes:
>Four students came home from Kent State in bodybags, and not all of them
>were even protestors.
>
>Yeah, I guess those cowardly anti-war protestors didn't have a *thing* to
>worry about.

Let's see, that's four (OK, make it five or six; I recall a couple
of students were killed in riots at other campuses) out of, oh,
umpteen million college students wildly indignant about nearly
everything.  That makes protesting safer than your average frat
party, statistically speaking.

-- 
Mike Van Pelt                                When guns are outlawed,
mvp@netcom.com                               only Carl Rowan will have guns.
mvp@hsv3.lsil.com
Xref: sparky alt.politics.bush:7293 talk.politics.misc:48755