Newsgroups: misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.mideast,alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: ARF's racist remark was:Re: Treason vs. Espionage
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:20:01 GMT
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You know, I am stunned.  We actually have people arguing with ARF who
are stupider than he is.  Astonishing.

In article <1992Dec15.101822.27928@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
>In <BzA2vG.KyI@ddsw1.mcs.com> arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) writes:
>>In <1g4a63INNbi6@agate.berkeley.edu> dan@jonas.berkeley.edu (dan graves) says:

>>>|>  >You agree that non-whites are incapable of sustaining our 
>>>|>  civilization?  That's pretty raw even for you, Jack.

>>>|>  I was agreeing with sentiment.  I did not choose the words.  
>>>|>  It is someone elses' quote.

>>>|>  I would have used the culture instead of civilization.

>>>|>  Clearly when a whole group of Aamericans desides to call 
>>>|>  themselves African-Americans, they are implying a desire to 
>>>|>  promote a different culture.

>>>This comment is racist.  Clearly Schmidling thinks
>>>that African Americans have less right to their identity
>>>than Italian Americans or Irish Americans or 
>>>(insert Caucasian identity) Americans.

Let's note that Dan seems to be totally unable to read what Arf has
said.  Arf is quite reasonable on this point, for once.  Unlike other
groups in America which are steadily moving towards assimmilation, a
large fraction of blacks seem to be actively seeking to move further
away from the common culture.  I can't think of any other group that
does that.

>>>I've got news for you, Schmidling, you hateful racist
>>>bastard.  African Americans have been here longer than most groups
>>>and have made more of a contribution to American culture
>>>than any other ethnic group i can think of.

What about Whites/European Americans?

>>>They can call themselves anything they like and i for 
>>>one will respect their contribution to MY culture.

What is your culture?  It wouldn't happen to be the American Culture,
would it?  So in that case, who is "they"?  After all, if "they" are
part of the American Culture then how can they be contributing new and
extraneous elements to it?

>>>Yes, Schmidling, you filthy racist, African Americans
>>>are just as American as you are.  

Maybe as Schmidling, but not as American as I am.  You see, I am not a
hyphenated American, whether that's European-American or
Jewish-American or British/Romanian-American.  I'm an American.  Any
black who considers himself to be an American is as American as I am.
If he considers himself to be an African-American then he isn't.

>>I don't know where to begin editing this rubbish so I left in in tact.

>>All I said was the African Americans are (by definition) promoting African
>>culture.  Everything you said in response is nothing by hateful rubbish
>>because you can't think of anything objective to say about what is 
>>a given and are to stupid to keep your mouth shut.

>This was a dumb rebuttal to Schmidling's idiotic post.  Schmidling, your
>post was stupid because it made no sense.  (1) There is no such thing as
>"African culture."  Any more than there is such a thing as "European
>culture."  

I agree.  Interestingly enough, many American blacks do not.  

>(2) African-American's are not by definition promoting
>African culture at all. 

Then why are they suddenly hyphenating themselves instead of calling
themselves Americans?

>(3) When you say they are "promoting a
>different culture," what do you mean?  Different than what?  Different
>than non-African-Americans?  Sure.  But Italian-Americans promote a
>different culture than non-Italian-Americans, and you never seem to be
>complaining that Italian-Americans can't sustain "our" civilization.

Well this plain isn't true.  Do you know any Italian Americans?  After
a couple of generations they act just like everyone else, except for a
deplorable tendency to have names like Luigi, Vinny, and Guido.  If
you ask them what they are they say "American".  If you ask them their
origin/ethnic group they say Italian.  The only time they use the
word "Italian-American" is in a discussion like this.
-- 
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Newsgroups: misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal