HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 09:45:26 -0400 
From: Alexander Samuel McDiarmid <am2o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: dirty tricks
	<1992Oct14.200748.17914@fs7.ece.cmu.edu>


mds@henry.ece.cmu.edu writes
In article <QepNhgC00awAQW=UY1@andrew.cmu.edu> Alexander Samuel
McDiarmid <am2o+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>How about when chasing a disk down the field  with your defender right
>behind you & you think the catch is iffy with him/her there, stop dead
>just short of where you need to be, have them collide with you.  This
>slows them down, pushes you foreward to where you need to be, and they
>foul you in the process b/c they didn't avoud you.  (just a little
>ASORG.)


This is a foul on you.  It is specifically a violation to play the man
rather than the disc.  This is playing the man.


Yes this is a violation, however if one has to stop in order not to
overrun the disk, evidenced by stopping, you are playing the disk not
the man. As long as you can get the disk if your defender does not touch
you, you are not 'playing the man' or so you can claim.
								-A
From: Eric.Simon@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Eric Simon)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Rules Question
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:52:12 -0500

CL>people are starting to play by the "significance" factor.i.e., I know that i
CL>I get a diving block & I get the disk before I make contact with the
CL>player, I don't feel that is a foul. (Unless the contact was severe, then
CL>it is a dangerous play.)

I would add another factor - if the contact, potentially, could have
been severe it is a foul.  After all, dangerous doesn't mean the contact
is necessarily harmful, but that there is a non-trivial probability that
it *could* have been harmful.  In a word - danger, or, dangerous.

 * SLMR 2.1a * REALITY.SYS corrupted: Re-boot universe (Y/N)?

From: "KAMHI, VICTOR" <KAMHIV@pt.cyanamid.com>
Approved: news@is.morgan.com
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:24:05 GMT
Munged: news-gateway (is.morgan.com: $Revision: 1.8 $)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Company, Inc.
Distribution: world
Subject: RE: Forwarded news from rec.sport.disc


Results of Penn/Del Sectional

Oaks, PA. -- Oct. 10 & 11

1) Philmore (7-0)
2) Club Nimeo (6-1; announced will compete in Masters)
3) Gouda (5-2)
4) Double Secret (4-3)
5) T2 (??-??)
6) Penn State (??-??; capped game win over rival UPenn 
in last game of tourney for final slot)


From: Frank Revi <71551.2461@CompuServe.COM>
Approved: news@is.morgan.com
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 12:13:54 GMT
Munged: news-gateway (is.morgan.com: $Revision: 1.8 $)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Company, Inc.
Distribution: world
Subject: Re: Mighty Tired at Sectionals

>>Regarding NE Sectionals:

>>Some may not like Mighty Tired's style (i.e., lots of drinking and
>>doobies), but they played great and won their pool.  Furthermore, they
>>didn't make one bad call in our game against them.  

I'm happy that Mighty Tired was good to play against on the field. That's
always welcome and it makes for fun times.

Regarding the doobies, alcohol, and their past antics, pushing the limit is
no problem as long as you're willing to take the full hit for crossing the
line "just a little".

Mighty Tired tests our community's way of dealing with itself, and forces
us to constantly examine our self-governing procedures, and keeps us on
our toes.  I'm not saying that this is what they consciously have decided
to do, after all they're just a bunch of dysfunctional Ultimate players
doing their own thing.

However, they have proven that they can get out of hand and really screw
their fellow players, especially the ones working hard to make it all
happen.  Plus, let's face it.  It wouldn't take much in the way of
illegal activity and its consequences to put Ultimate out of business at
certain sites in the site-starved Northeast, if not worse.

Their behavior really risks serious consequences in the sense that they
do illegal and prohibited things and it's just a question of whether
someone, e.g. the person letting us use their fields, puts the hammer
down.  

Should the UPA take steps to stop this type of thing at sanctioned events? 
On the one hand, you might say it violates players "rights" to do
whatever they feel like, or feels like a wet blanket.  On the other hand,
it really does put a large sector of the membership at risk of having
their ultimate hassled; doesn't the UPA have the responsibility to the
membership at large to reduce that risk?  I think so.

Not to mention, god forbid, any question of ethics.  Note that I'm not
passing a judgement with that remark, only pointing out that the question
isn't even being asked of whether it's "right" or "wrong" to behave in a
given way.

So I say, they may be fun, but show me a clear violation of a law, or a
regulation that puts other players at risk of losing fields (or
whatever), and let's can their ass for a while.  We've tried the lax
experiment for a while, let's mix it up and see what happens when we use
the limits we've established for ourselves.

-Frank



Distribution:
  INTERNET:Pablo_Martinez.LOTUS@CRD.lotus.com INTERNET:Pablo_Martinez.LOTUS@CRD.lotus.com
  Eric Simon [70540,1522]
  The Net >INTERNET:ultimate-list@doe.carleton.ca
  Mark Licata [70743,3232]
From: schmidt@a.cs.wvu.wvnet.edu (Evan Schmidt)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: SMOKED GOUDA
Keywords: Name correction
Date: 14 Oct 92 11:43:29 GMT

Hello Ultimate Players,
	A small clarification, but the name of the Pittsburgh Club
Team was mistakenly reported as gouda in the posting about the results
of the Pennsylvania Sectional tournament.  The name is "Smoked Gouda".
We play "gouda O" and we play "gouda D".

--
Eat, Drink, and Play FRIZBEE!

--
Evan Schmidt
Smoked Gouda (Pittsburgh Ultimate)
schmidt@cs.wvu.wvnet.edu
From: Eric.Simon@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Eric Simon)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: masters wild cards
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:46:08 -0500

NFS>Interesting about the wild card berth.  Out of curiosity,
NFS>do you have an idea how many masters teams are competing
NFS>per region?

No, but I had heard that Central was planning on having SEVEN!  The West
four or five.

 * SLMR 2.1a * Old soldiers never die.  Young ones do.
From: ho@cs.arizona.edu (Hilarie Orman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Re: dirty tricks
Date: 7 Oct 92 22:39:25 GMT

In article <troy.718489765@buck>, troy@cqs.washington.edu (Troy Frever) writes:
|> ziskin@climate.gsfc.nasa.gov (Daniel C. Ziskin) writes:
|> 
|> - On the other side of the coin, the marker can be pretty nasty, too.

Of course.  Just keep one foot on the disc until the thrower arrives
and demonstrates his acute willingness to take possession.

|> 
|> - You're playing deep (O) and your defender is watching you very
|> closely, but not checking in with the disc.  Your team turns it over.
|> Keep pretending to play O, so your defender (who should be playing O
|> now) keeps covering you.  Defense the easy way!

I once did this, convincing my defender for almost a minute that a
long pass was just about to come my way.  But I ended up laughing so
hard that the defender took umbrage.  And that's the problem with dirty
tricks.


Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: dlwilson@fenix.encore.com (David L Wilson)
Subject: Re: Dirty tricks (or would these just be "stupid tricks"?)
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 17:34:21 GMT
Summary: confused

chrisf@jna.com.au (Chris Ford) writes:

>should watch where he is going. If someone is moving in a straight line then
>he can move at what ever pace he likes, if the other guy wants to get past
>then just run around the slow person. If the slow guy suddenly steps

 [...] deleted

>When this becomes a problem is when someone intentionally slows up to block
>someone off the disc letting another team mate make an unhindered play. In
>that case it is definitely a pick.

In that case, shouldn't the defender run around the slowing offense player?
How do you differentiate between someone slowing so they don't run into the
play, and slowing to create a pick?

I don't call picks often, but when I do, I don't care too much where I am on
the field.  If I get picked and my guy gets a few steps on me, and runs the
length the field to catch a score, it's a bit late to say, "Oh, sorry, you
were in the play after all."

on to regionals,
Dave Wilson
WPB Illegitimate Kennedys
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: mpg@doe.carleton.ca (Mike Gagnon)
Subject: Re: Awful SOTG play...
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 19:29:07 GMT

In <1992Oct12.165734.16308@husc3.harvard.edu> dnolan@husc10.harvard.edu (David Nolan) writes:

>...  We (Boston Kremes) were making a comeback late in the
>game against Mighty Tired.  Mighty Tired was playing in character, screaming
>and complaining about every call, and we were doing our fair share of
>...
>more than one member of Mighty Tired began yelling "Foul him! Foul him!"
>Dave Nolan

There have been alot of memorable moment's in my 6 years of playing,
and very few of these memories are bad ones :-), but I'll never forget
the frustration and anger I felt when we played these guys (Mighty Tired)
two years ago at Spring Regionals!

THERE NOTHING BUT ...... (No, I'm over that now !!!!)

Mike Gagnon
"The WAX" Ottawa Ultimate.
P.S. It's good to be back.

--
  |   Mike Gagnon.                       Ottawa Ultimate.  |
-(+)-      Once in a while you get shown the light,      -(+)-
  |  in the strangest of places if you look at it right.   |
From: bn442@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Marc S. Queen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: OU tourney on Nov 1
Date: 11 Oct 92 17:19:42 GMT
Reply-To: bn442@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Marc S. Queen)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I would like some more information on this event.  How many teams have
said they'll be there on Sunday?  I know the captain's meeting is at
10:30 or so, but --How long will the games last? ..til 6:00?  I have the
phone number for OU's team, but this is cheaper.  =)
I would like to form a team to play that weekend. I have a few guys so far.
However, it looks like I'll just be a spectator IF I can find a way there.
Thanks in advance,
msq
-- 
Marc "elvis" Queen
*4th yr Pharmacy student at Ohio Northern*
*Founder of ONU Ultimate Frisbee*
115 1/2 S Main St, Ada, OH 45810  419-634-8013
From: bell@beethoven.cs.unc.edu (Andrew Bell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Ultimate in Atlanta, GA
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:52:40 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

Anyone out there know of any ultimate groups/pick-up games in the Atlanta
area, particularly around Norcross or Georgia Tech?  I'll be spending a
fair amount of my time there, and could use the occasional game...

   -Andrew Bell
bell@cs.unc.edu
From: ce448@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chris Lehmann)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: RE: Penn V. Penn State
Date: 13 Oct 1992 01:32:19 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ce448@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chris Lehmann)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, KAMHIV@pt.cyanamid.com (KAMHI, VICTOR) says:

>
>Results of Penn/Del Sectional
>
>Oaks, PA. -- Oct. 10 & 11
>
>1) Philmore (7-0)
>2) Club Nimeo (6-1; announced will compete in Masters)
>3) Gouda (5-2)
>4) Double Secret (4-3)
>5) T2 (??-??)
>6) Penn State (??-??; capped game win over rival UPenn 
>in last game of tourney for final slot)
>
About that capped game against Penn State (I think they finished 6-2 for the
weekend,) I just wanted to post a note saying that it was one of the best
games in which I have ever been fortunate enough to play. Congrats to 
Penn State for their come back & let notice be served that we are looking
forward to the Spring rematch! 

To all those who didn't see the game:

Penn & Penn State (yes, we are not the same school!) played in the final
game of Sectionals for the right to go to Wilmington as the fifth seed in
the Region. Penn was playing in their ninth game of the weekend, fifth of the
day, having worked their way up the losers bracket with victories over
CMU (13-11), Ace Lumber Co. (13-10) and Lafayette (13-12). (For the record,
T2 put us into the losers bracket in the first game of the day 11-7) 
Penn State had beaten us the week before 12-5, and again on Saturday by the
score of 13-6 (I think.) 

With the stage thus set, we took the first half 7-4. Penn State battled back
to tie the game at 7-7. We then took the lead back & with the score being 12-9,
had three chances to end the game. Then Penn State scored the next three
points to tie the score. We managed one more score before Penn State ended
the game by beating us 15-13. 

Congrats to Penn State who really battled us until the end. The final few
turnovers were forced by some great State defense. Congrats to all the
members of the U. Penn Void for putting together some of the best Ultimate
I've ever seen them play. After eight games, the Void played on sheer heart.
Division II LOOK OUT! Here we come! (Wilmington, monkeyman.)

Two last things, thanks to Ann Carson for bailing out our section & running
the tournament for us. & lastly, a speedy recovery is wished to my 
co-captain Steve Grantz who separated his shoulder on a defensive bid
during that game. 

					Chris
				
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Lehmann	 	 	 ce448@Cleveland.Freenet.Edu
University of Pennsylvania	 "When a ball dreams, it dreams 
Breed Ultimate	 	 	 it's a frisbee."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: fontes@astro.psu.edu (Chris Fontes)
Subject: Re: Forwarded news from rec.sport.disc
Organization: Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics, Penn State University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 18:36:13 GMT

In article <daemon.92Oct12172405@is.morgan.com> "KAMHI, VICTOR" <KAMHIV@pt.cyanamid.com> writes:

   Results of Penn/Del Sectional

   Oaks, PA. -- Oct. 10 & 11

   1) Philmore (7-0)
   2) Club Nimeo (6-1; announced will compete in Masters)
   3) Gouda (5-2)
   4) Double Secret (4-3)
   5) T2 (??-??)
*********   6) Penn State (??-??; capped game win over rival UPenn 
*********    in last game of tourney for final slot)

Ahhh, it does this ex-Penn Stater's heart good to see this result.
There have been several classic games between PSU/UPENN for the
coveted sixth spot to regionals...

Chris "Wipin the tears from eyes." Fontes
From: Eric.Simon@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Eric Simon)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Dirty tricks (or would t
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 10:16:12 -0500

RVG>You have the disc and the stall count is getting pretty high.  Instead
RVG>of making a risky throw and turning it over, simply grab the disc with
RVG>both hands, and bounce it off of the defender's head.  If you completely
RVG>let go of the disc and then catch it again, they must restart the stall
RVG>count.  The ensuing confusion is fun to watch too.

Bzzzt.  Turnover.

From the Ninth Edition Rules:

XII.  Turnovers
      2.  The following actions result in a loss of possession and a
      check:
          C.  If the thrower intentionally deflects a pass to
          him/herself off another player

All that means is that someone thought of this trick a long time ago,
and prevented it with a specific rule.

And now, for laughs, here's how to get around it:

. . . let youself (your throw) get blocked, and catch it after the
block.  Then the count would go back to zero . . .

(Just kidding)

 * SLMR 2.1a * Evolution is God's way of issuing upgrades

Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: mds@henry.ece.cmu.edu (Mark Schultz)
Subject: Re: dirty tricks
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 20:07:48 GMT

In article <QepNhgC00awAQW=UY1@andrew.cmu.edu> Alexander Samuel McDiarmid <am2o+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>How about when chasing a disk down the field  with your defender right
>behind you & you think the catch is iffy with him/her there, stop dead
>just short of where you need to be, have them collide with you.  This
>slows them down, pushes you foreward to where you need to be, and they
>foul you in the process b/c they didn't avoud you.  (just a little
>ASORG.)

This is a foul on you.  It is specifically a violation to play the man
rather than the disc.  This is playing the man.

                                                                  Mark



Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu (George Ferguson)
Subject: Re: Rules Question
Reply-To: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu (George Ferguson)
Organization: Computer Science Department University of Rochester.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 13:57:50 GMT


In article <ld6r8sINNhlf@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> bharat@shadow.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>Here's a rule question.  A player on the offensive team
>is lined up to make a pass.  Another, taller, player on
>the defensive team comes running in and they both jump
>at the same time.  The defensive player *out-jumps* the
>offensive player and reaches *over his head* and gets
>the disc, without making any kind of contact whatsoever.

I presume by "make a pass" you mean "receive a pass".  In that case,
no contact, no foul. Happens to me all the time -- I wish it were a
foul. :-)

George
-- 
George Ferguson                 ARPA: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu
Dept. of Computer Science       UUCP: rutgers!rochester!ferguson
University of Rochester         VOX:  (716) 275-2527
Rochester  NY  14627-0226       FAX:  (716) 461-2018
From: brehob@plantain.cps.msu.edu (Mark W Brehob)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Any stuff int the Midwest this winter?
Date: 11 Oct 92 20:57:14 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University

Questions...
Are there any plans for games in the midwest this winter?  Does anyone  
have plans for early Spring?  Hey Ben or Mike, does Rose-Hulamn have 
a date or gneral idea of when the Dirty Sock will be?  
Also how did that small event you all had go?

Just curious,
Mark Brehob
Michigan State Now
Rose-Hulman Then.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: fulton@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Ben Fulton)
Subject: Re: Dirty tricks (or would these just be "stupid tricks"?)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 14:10:30 GMT

In <1992Oct15.033821.14590@snow.geology.wisc.edu> peter@geology.wisc.edu (Peter Burkholder) writes:

>Does Maharashi University have an Ultimate team?  I once heard that they
>had an exhibition in D.C., but only the levitation demonstrations by the
>novices were open to the public.

I know at least two graduates of Maharishi High School that play ultimate.
And after seeing one of them throwing, I'm not willing to guarantee
that he doesn't levitate the disc into the proper position...

-- 
ben                                     fulton@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
 "A tight bunch of bastards who want to win while loving each other,
  if they don't destroy their knees first, or start sleeping with 
  each other's girlfriends." - Rigler, about Indiana Ultimate
From: Eric.Simon@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Eric Simon)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Jersey Sectional Results
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 10:07:10 -0500

CB-SB>earlier each season is the right thing to do. I think it would help if
CB-SB>one of the directors could post what the long term (next 3-5 seasons) pla
CB-SB>for the masters division are so that we could see an end to some of the
CB-SB>problems outlined above.

There is no long term plan, unfortunately.  But I am thinking of a
submitting a proposal along the lines you were talking of -

1993 - Rosters finalized BEFORE Sectionals, can not play on both Open
and Masters
1994 - Age limit to 31
1996 - Age limit to 32
1998 - Age limit to 33
2000 - Age limit to 34
2002 - Age limit to 35 (Yikes - I'll be 45 then!)
                                        ^
I would also like to tighten up the Women's Masters - but don't know how
fast to go.

Any ideas for either Open Masters or Women's Masters?


 * SLMR 2.1a * Daddy, what does 'Formatting Drive C' mean?
From: skoehler@tangelo.usc.edu (steffen koehler)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Req: Cal tourney schedule
Date: 7 Oct 1992 10:35:04 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: tangelo.usc.edu
Summary: Looking for tournament dates for the fall
Keywords: tournaments, california, schedule

Does anyone have a more-or-less comprehensive schedule of upcoming
California (and Arizona) ultimate tournaments for the near future?
Some kind soul posted such a list, with contacts, about a year ago,
and I'd love to see another.

                       Steffen
                         --  LA Smog

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steffen Koehler    |                      University of Southern California
skoehler@usc.edu   |                               Center for Laser Studies
(213) 740-4249     |    National Center for Integrated Photonics Technology
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: tnt@netcom.com (Terry Turner)
Subject: good position vs playing the disc.
Organization: Watch the Skies
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 18:44:42 GMT

this was suggested by a recent post and is a point in the rules that i
think is almost universally played different from the rules. 

the rules, as we all know, state that it is illegal to "play the man"
instead of the disc. in other words you may not box out as they say in
basketball. but i think that everyone does and, in fact, i tell new
players my favorite play, which involves putting your body between the
disc and your opponent.  i am not alone in this reckless disregard of the
rules. one of the most common phrases used when discussing plays in
ultimate is "i/he/she had position". this is ultimate jargon for, "i had
you boxed out". 

so what's the point of this post? i have been intrigued by this
discrepancy and realized that it causes a lot of confussion for new
players because they are told (or read) one thing and see just the
opposite. i would like to hear other opinions on this. why do we have a
rule that no one follows?

-- 
terry
	tnt@netcom.com
From: kjoye@uts.amdahl.com (Ken Joye)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: airplane tix to nationals
Date: 14 Oct 92 20:58:13 GMT
Reply-To: kjoye@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (Ken Joye)
Distribution: ba
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

I am making travel plans for the UPA nationals in San Diego next month
and have found out about a good deal on a flight.

There is a "2 for 1" deal from Southwest Air, San Francisco to San Diego,
$69 per person.  This compares to $103, SF -> SD, United or USAir and
$108, SJ -> SD, American.

If you think that you would be interested in splitting a "2 for 1" with me,
please contact me by this weekend.  (The other prices are good only if you
reserve three weeks in advance, or by October 21st for the tournament).
I would probably want to meet you at my travel agent in Palo Alto to deal 
with the tickets...

Either send email or leave a message on the phone

	W: (408) 737-5735
	H: (415) 857-9056

thanks,
Ken
-- 
		Ken Joye          kjoye@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com
[If you think Joe Zemke would let me speak for Amdahl, repeat after me: "NOT!"]
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: fulton@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Ben Fulton)
Subject: Re: dirty tricks
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:12:47 GMT

In <1992Oct9.031935.12292@infonode.ingr.com> krajnatg@infonode.ingr.com (Tom G. Krajna) writes:

>Strike up a friendly conversation with your defender in the stack.  (You
>can do this to be nice [SOTG] or to take the "edge" off his/her psych.
>Your call.)

This one's especially bad when you're guarding a former member of your
team :-)  Happened to me last weekend.  "So, Bill, how's it going, enjoying
Chicago?  SHIT!  Where are you going?"

-- 
ben                                     fulton@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
 "A tight bunch of bastards who want to win while loving each other,
  if they don't destroy their knees first, or start sleeping with 
  each other's girlfriends." - Rigler, about Indiana Ultimate
From: Eric.Simon@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Eric Simon)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP