From: udcrusd@meaddata.com (Sylvia D'Cruz)
Subject: Re: More About India
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 21:33:45 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Oct7.123921.1@uwovax.uwo.ca>, rpsingh@uwovax.uwo.ca writes:
|> In article <1992Oct7.072254.16233@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, usubrama@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Uma M Subramanian) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> > produce something that doesn't exist, I'm going to take this question seriously
|> > and answer it: Yes, I can give you numerous incidents, but it's too
|>       ^^^^^^^^^^
|> > painful and degrading to do so.
|> 
|> Better still, Talk about it. It won't serve any purpose keeping all these
|> incidents bottled up inside yourself. Share it with us, may be that would help
|> 'us' understand Indian females in general, and would give us pointers as to
|> how to treat Indian females.

I would not share details on the net, especially SCI. A support group maybe
more understanding than SCI. For an Indian male, to actually understand an
Indian female, would take more than a "net discussion". He is so divided.

On the one hand, he has a mother that he worships, a sister that he protects,
a daughter that he defends, a wife that does his call and becking, that 
somehow all these images that he needs to live upto has its toll on the rest
of the women, outside the inner circle. He tries to fit the indian women into
one of these categories. You will start to understand her, when you treat her
as an individual. Remember "Raksha Bandan", many a man has duped many a girl,
tying a raksha at the end of a love affair. Most of what we are today, is 
because of age old traditions and customs. They are good, if they keep up with
the times.

|> > The worst thing in my experience is that fo rmany women, it is not
|> > possible to tell even family members about such cases for fear of losing
|>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> > the little freedom to move around in the city. The reaction in my
|> > can't go out alone"    and you soon learn to never talk abou t this to
|> > anyone. If this is the kind of support a woman/girl has at home, one
|> 
|> Well ! That's an incredibly weak argument for defending yourself.
|> At the same time I don't think its proper to accuse your family/parents
|> of insensitivity and lack of support to their daughter. Do you wish to say:
|> If (God Forbid) something demeaning/distasteful/derogatory happens to you
|> in the streets of USA and you tell your parents about that, they'll call
|> you back???  And Will you go back??
|> I'm happy and fortunate that these things never happened in my
|> household and yes, I've three sisters.

I agree with "Uma". There are a lot of things I suspect a lot of females have 
not told the male members in their family. Due, to the roles they play in the 
family. Yes, I would have had my little freedom curtailed, too. Just goes to
show, you don't even understand that there is a problem. I think, you think
your three sisters confided and told you all. Go on believing in that. The
things that they held back, may not be big incidents. The small little ones.

[Maybe, I should give you an example. Normally, I would not bother...but then
the server is down ....SYBASE problems and I have some time. That's the reason
I am SCI...]

I wanted to go to IIM, after I finished and was planning on sitting for the
exams. I had the support from my parents. Both, were strong believers in 
education. I think, if I had got through, I would have been out of Bombay and
in a hostel. My brother, an IITian, did not like the idea at all. He convinced
my dad, that the few girls that he had seen in IIT Bombay, that lived in the
hostel, were shabilly treated and I should not be allowed to go.  Yes! I cried 
and fought, but of no avail. He said it is time I got married.

How many of you guys have done the same ? How many of you try to get them
married against their wishes ?  Talk about double standards.

|> > it is for married Indian women to tell their husbands about such things,
|> > if the reaction is often one of blaming the wife for "asking for it".)
|> 
|> You have crossed the edge here. This is plainly untrue and a figment
|> of your own skewed imagination. No husband would do that. I'm really sorry
|> about the circumstances that led you to concoct such ideas about Indian men.

Some married women, have confided stuff in me and other female friends, that
they have not told their husbands. The attitude of the husband, in most cases,
"You should have listened to me. I told you not to go there." The "listen to
me", I am the male, I know what is good for you sermon........

The fact that you think, it is a figment of her imagination, just goes to
show, you have a long way to go, in learning and understanding an Indian women.
But, then you don't need to understand her, you can get away, by bossing a
nice little bride that your mother finds for you.

|> > The pseudo-respect for women in the Indian culture is based on this
|> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> > implicit agreement: "woman, don't you create any trouble or else..."
|>  
|> Ma'm somewhere in the midst of your rantings you lost control of what you
|> were saying. I won't even try to defend Indian men/culture to someone with
|> such opinions. But I'll tell you something: Wait till you age, when the bodily
|> charm is not there, when your smooth skin is unable to attract an American soul
|> perhaps, then you'd realize the sense of duty in Indian men and the virtues of
|> our culture.
|> 
|> > Uma Subramanian 
|> Ravi

How typical of an Indian man, to think, that feminine bodily charm, is only 
thing that attracts an American man ! The sense of duty and loyalty that
I have seen in some Indian men, stems more from selfish interests, than the
interests of the family. Peer pressure from other Indian men when they meet
over a cup of chai, to discuss worldly affairs, that their dumb wives cannot
fathom, or dicussions on how well, their son is doing in school, or how many
proposals have come for their daughter. 

I know, what "Uma" means when she says "woman, don't you create any trouble 
or else...". Some Indian men are so egocentric, that their word has to be
final in everything. The women is more often suppressed, restricted and not
allowed to grow. She is relegated to certain chores and duties, and if they
are going fine, the man can sleep, with a sense of duty accomplished and a
sense of pride in himself and his culture, that he has got what he wants
for the day, from his beloved, submissive wife. 

I think the ultimate companion for an Indian male, should be the dog, the 
ever faithful, ever at your service, if well trained can show some tricks to 
his male friends and is around in sight only when needed. Maybe the indian
male may have to resort to that in the future, if he does not change.

|> *******************************************************************************
|> `It's foolish to be wise in the company of fools.' 
|>                                                      
|> *******************************************************************************
|> Ravi P. Singh                    *    E-mail: rpsingh@hydra.uwo.ca
|> Dept. of Physics                 *    Phone : (519)-679-2111 Ext.6556 [off]
|> University of Western Ontario    *            (519)-433-6291 [Res.]
|> London N6A 3K7, Ontario          *    Fax   : (519)-661-2033 
|>  C A N A D A                     *
|> ********************************************************************************
|> -- 
|> 
|> *******************************************************************************
|> `It's foolish to be wise in the company of fools.' 
|>                                                      
|> *******************************************************************************
|> Ravi P. Singh                    *    E-mail: rpsingh@hydra.uwo.ca
|> Dept. of Physics                 *    Phone : (519)-679-2111 Ext.6556 [off]
|> University of Western Ontario    *            (519)-433-6291 [Res.]
|> London N6A 3K7, Ontario          *    Fax   : (519)-661-2033 
|>  C A N A D A                     *
|> ********************************************************************************

-- 
Sylvia D. D'Cruz                                
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian