From: goh@nyquist.usc.edu (K.C.Goh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: US vs British university degree
Date: 26 Aug 1992 12:49:31 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: nyquist.usc.edu

In article <1992Aug26.060234.4707@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
>echong@porpoise.ecn.purdue.edu (Edwin Chong) writes:
>: In article <l9kvr9INN4n0@nyquist.usc.edu> goh@nyquist.usc.edu (K.C.Goh) writes:
>: >[comparison of UK and US education deleted]
>: >
>: 
>: A terrific summary.
>: 
>: >I've discussed undergraduate degrees. The situation is probably
>: >not similar for MSc/PhD degrees.
>: >
>
>Unfortunately I do not have any experience with US method of education.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And it shows.
In what follows, I will confine myself to discussing some of the
points made by Encik Ahmad in his posting.  The discussion will be
limited to what I think are reasonably reputable EE PhD programs in the US.  

>If you are good at passing exams you can do well in US universities. For
>example there was a Malaysian PSD scholar who graduated with PhD in 5 years
>after MCE(GCE O level). This is fact, I read in in Malaysian newspaper.
>	 In UK , no matter how brilliat you are, you can only
>get it in 6 years, 1 year A level, 3 year BSc, 2 year PhD.
>	Because you can take exams in USA for your PhD, your research work
>need not be of greater depth. In UK system, you must do more original unguided
>work to complete your PhD.
>	A colleague of mine who got his PhD from USA commented that, in USA
>ordinary student can get PhD because he is guided whereas he may fail in a 
>UK system because he is unguided.
>

Fact: 	
One usually takes at least three to four years after the
MSc to graduate with a PhD in the US.  Can Edwin confirm that this is also
the case in Purdue?  How about the people in MIT?

Fact:  
The PhD course is usually regarded as training to do independent creative
academic research and the ability to do well in exams is usually regarded
to be irrelevant, although there is obvious correlation between the
ability to do research and the ability to do well in exams.
The students are expected to demonstrate their ability to do research by
presenting their work in conferences and journals.

Fact:
A typical PhD course in the US includes about 1/3 cousework which
provides the basics for the 2/3 independent research leading up to
a dissertation.  For a EE Systems type PhDs the cousework usually 
and necessarily include Masters level Mathematics courses, eg Real 
Analysis and Operator Theory.  Personally speaking, I find that 
advanced courses are a tremendous help for getting one up to the 
standard required to make real contributions to the latest research.

Fact:
All PhD students are guided.  It is extremely unlikely that a person with
no guidance can get a PhD.  The level of guidance may of course differ.

>: Virtually all PhD programs in the US require students to pass a
>: "qualifying exam". This is a comprehensive exam on the student's area
>: of specialization, typically at an advanced level. Preparation for
>: this exam is usually much more intensive than any undergraduate exam.
>
>Those who graduate from UK system like Hong Kong can score A easily in these
>courses.

Personal opinion:
This is totally incorrect and in fact absurd.

>This explains why UK trained professionals tend to develop original ideas and
>are in great demand even in USA, at least the better ones. This is called
>brain drain from UK and Europe.

Personal opinion:
The people from UK, Europe, India, Far East, Latin America etc. come to US
because that's where the state of the art research and funding is found.
Have a look at the IEEE Transactions.

>many years. From Cambridge University, 90% got 1st class.

Fact:
The typical breakdown in EE in Cambridge is aprroximately
25% 1st Class Honours.  The proportion is usually much lower for other
departments.

Regards,

K.C. Goh

Xref: sparky soc.culture.asean:5644 soc.culture.thai:2491 soc.culture.korean:3815 soc.culture.china:23701 soc.culture.taiwan:12304 rec.travel:12195