HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ewen@naos.actrix.gen.nz (Ewen McNeill)
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: Re: newsgroups, flames, et al.
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 92 22:35:26   Y
Organization: Naos - Inside the Z80

dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz writes:

> I have a proposal. I can see a need for a group for BBS sysops to pass
> info. Perhaps nz.general is the place to do it, perhaps not.

I've feel I should comment about this, having seen how "well" the
FidoNet NZ Sysop operates.  FidoNet's NZ Sysop is limited to "Nodelisted
Sysops".  For those that don't know about FidoNet, all nodes actually
(ie, officially) in FidoNet are in a node list (which at last count is
>1.5MB for the entire world).  UseNet doesn't have an equivilent of
this.

The reason why it was limited to nodelisted sysops appears to have
something to do with a desire to keep "plebs" out, and also have some
way of checking on same.  It's a major pain in some ways because there
are some non-pleb people who are kept out of it by this restriction,
including some BBS sysops (for real) who for whatever reason have chosen
not to become full nodes (yes, it's technically possible, just not
allowed for as a concept by the rules).

Since UseNet doesn't actually have a similar concept - other than
perhaps restricting it to system administrators of domains (eg,
welly.gen.nz, actrix.gen.nz, etc, etc), that may be a problem. Certainly
a restriction of said type would leave a lot of people out (including the
sys admins over the various welly.gen.nz boards).

You mention about not having it seen in nz.general.  While FidoNet
doesn't do restrictions terribly well, it is at least possible to stop
users from reading areas.  Not all Usenet software appears to have this
facility which may cause a problem.

One also then has to face the flames (and believe me there are several)
from users/points (roughly equivilent in status to Usenets sub-feeds)
that they are missing out on things that they should know about.

I'm not knocking the concept; I think it is a good idea.  I'm just
pointing out that implementing it may be a major problem.  I'd almost be
tempted to suggest a mailing list, if it weren't for the fact that it'd
go through the billing computer several times, and probably generate
more net-traffic than a newsgroup would.

A final thing to consider for the charter - will it be limited to sysops
of BBSes which offer Usenet, or to all BBS sysops in NZ? (or no limits?)
The main reason I ask this is that I qualify as a BBS sysop, but not
first-hand as a BBS sysop of a board offering Usenet (although I guess I
qualify as that too, in a second-hand, assistant, when-the-boss-is-away
type manner).

> dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz

--
Ewen McNeill, ewen@naos.actrix.gen.nz (or ewen@actrix.gen.nz)
Newsgroups: nz.general
From: kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I)
Subject: Re: nz.waffle?? (was Re: Hello....hello...is anybody home)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 08:21:39 GMT
Organization: ACME BBS - Public Access Usenet, Palmerston North, New Zealand

jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers) writes:

> jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke):
> 
> >  Do I see an apology forth coming? (no, I doubt it)
> 
>     I think if your software supports it you should use kill files.
>     The stuff from acme, Vic computer services (or whatever they call
>     themselves) and clear has been painful to read recently.

Whereas the stuff from status, nacjack, and now it appears
templar.actrix.gen.nz has been wildly entertaining.

						- k
-- 
Craig Harding            kilroy@acme.gen.nz             ACME BBS +64 6 3551342
"Jub'er lbh pnyyvat n obmb?"
Newsgroups: nz.general
From: clear@cavebbs.welly.gen.nz (Charlie Lear)
Subject: Re: nz.waffle?? (was Re: Hello....hello...is anybody home)
Organization: The Cave MegaBBS, Public Access Usenet, Wellington, NZ
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 03:55:40 GMT

In article <jbickers.0gnw@templar.actrix.gen.nz> jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers) writes:
>    I think if your software supports it you should use kill files.
>    The stuff from acme, Vic computer services (or whatever they call
>    themselves) and clear has been painful to read recently.

Then I'm glad that you will never see this, as it will have been zapped 
as soon as it ever got to your newsreader.

I have received email from Jon Clarke claiming that the recent spate of 
postings have been forgeries.

However, I don't know what to believe - have the postings been forgeries,
or is the email a forgery?

I'm going to ring the man tomorrow to find out the real story.

-- 
Charlie "The Bear" Lear | clear@cavebbs.welly.gen.nz | Kawasaki 750GT DoD#0221
Databits Computer Co / Shareware Distribution NZ        Ph/Fax  +64 4 564-5307 
PO Box 2009, Wellington, New Zealand        The Cave MegaBBS +64 4 5642269 V32
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: newsgroups, flames, et al.
From: dgd@kcbbs.gen.nz (David Dix)
Date: 9 Oct 92 07:17:10 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis unix BBS, Auckland, NZ

The dogbowl@dogbox wimpers in message <NTBasB2w165w@dogbox.acme.gen.nz>
>OK. I think we've had enough of the flaming.
>Jon stuffed up twice in short sucession, and doesn't want to admit it.
>Fine.

Fine.

>I have a proposal. I can see a need for a group for BBS sysops to pass
>info. Perhaps nz.general is the place to do it, perhaps not.

Hmmm, maybe tell us a little more about the need you see.

>To decide whether it is or not, I propose a new group.
>
>nz.bbs.sysop
>-----------------
>Charter:
>
>nz.bbs.sysop is a group for bbs sysops to exchange news, views
>information and flamage without it having to be seen in nz.general.
>
>This newsgroup would serve a similar purpose to Fidonet's national Sysop
>echo.
>-----------------

The Fidonet NZ_SYSOP echo is kept private and access to it is restricted to
the sysops of NZ Fidonet bbs.
With a newsgroup this would not be possible as there is nothing to prevent any
sys admin from subscribing to a newsgroup and he/she and the site's users from
participating in it.

>I know it's lacking in lots of areas, but I think it's a start.

It is.

>Let's see if we can have a serious discussion for a change.

Dream on.

                                                               *
dgd@kcbbs.gen.nz (David Dix), Fidonet 3:772/90.
ZL1UZC (bbs on 144.75 Pac Comm 1200)                     k *      *
Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, NEW ZEALAND.                   .
Pth.9817-3725/3714 v32/v42bis/MNP5
   9817-3094/8424 v32bis/v42bis/MNP5                          *
   9817-3324/3393 v22bis/MNP5
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: Re: nz.waffle?? (was Re: Hello....hello...is anybody home)
Date: 11 Oct 92 13:20:53 PST
Organization: TAP

Quoted from <646BsB1w165w@status.gen.nz> by jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke):

>  Do I see an apology forth coming? (no, I doubt it)

    I think if your software supports it you should use kill files.
    The stuff from acme, Vic computer services (or whatever they call
    themselves) and clear has been painful to read recently.

>  Jon Clarke                                     o( )       
--
*** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
From: dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: newsgroups, flames, et al.
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 92 06:30:34 +1300
Organization: The Dawghaus BBS, Palmerston North, New Zealand (+64 6 357 9245)


OK. I think we've had enough of the flaming.
Jon stuffed up twice in short sucession, and doesn't want to admit it.
Fine.
Let him throw a wobbly tantrum in the corner like the three year
old, caught with his hand in the cookie jar who gets upset when we don't
believe his little sister made him do it.

I have a proposal. I can see a need for a group for BBS sysops to pass
info. Perhaps nz.general is the place to do it, perhaps not.

To decide whether it is or not, I propose a new group.

nz.bbs.sysop
-----------------
Charter:

nz.bbs.sysop is a group for bbs sysops to exchange news, views
information and flamage without it having to be seen in nz.general.

This newsgroup would serve a similar purpose to Fidonet's national Sysop
echo.
-----------------

I know it's lacking in lots of areas, but I think it's a start.

Discussions in this forum, flames to dev/null please.
 ( All email flamage will be gleefully posted )

Let's see if we can have a serious discussion for a change.




dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz
The Dawghaus BBS, Palmerston North, New Zealand (+64 6 357 9245)


Newsgroups: nz.general
From: thetroll@rata.vuw.ac.nz (The Troll)
Subject: Re: nz.waffle?? (was Re: Hello....hello...is anybody home)
Organization: Computing Serv. Ctr, Victoria Uni., Wellington, New Zealand
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 01:48:35 GMT

In article <@acme.gen.nz> kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I) writes:
John > jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers) writes:
Jon > jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke):
Jon > Do I see an apology forth coming? (no, I doubt it)
John>I think if your software supports it you should use kill files.
John>The stuff from acme, Vic computer services (or whatever they call
John>themselves) and clear has been painful to read recently.

Craig>Whereas the stuff from status, nacjack, and now it appears
Craig>templar.actrix.gen.nz has been wildly entertaining.

"irony, sarcasm. *Irony* is the use of words to convey a contradiction
between the literal and intended meanings. *Sarcasm* is very like irony
except that it is more stinging. Where the primary intent behind irony is
to amuse, with sarcasm it is to wound."
	--- The Penguin Dictionary of Troublesome Words. 

Just to make sure that certain people out there understand that Craig was
being ironical in reference to John's posting. Lately it has become
apparent that a number of people don't understand the use of irony and
sarcasm, let alone the difference between the two. 

This has been a nz.net.pitbull information service message brough to you
by:

--
Alex Heatley                                Computing Services Centre
Domain: Alex.Heatley@vuw.ac.nz              Victoria University of Wellington
"UNIX is supported by IBM, like a hanging man is supported by rope"
                               - Libes & Ressler in "Life With UNIX"


PS I highly recommend the "Dictionary of Troublesome words" it is a
reference that no writer without should be. And that includes posters to
the net.
From: Pat Cain <patrick@sideways.welly.gen.nz>
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: Re: nz.waffle?? (was Re: Hello....hello...is anybody home)
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1992 05:30:29 GMT
Organization: Sideways Bulletin Board, Lower Hutt, New Zealand

jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) in <gm38RB4w165w@status.gen.nz> writes:
>  So much for the so called net.polite and net.wise UNI users in this 
>  newsgroup.  I can imagine you all using this in every day speach but 
>  should the NZ education system turn out such horrible delights in

Well stop replying to their messages then -- you're making yourself look
silly by posting messages full of spelling mistakes and at the same time
complaining about the education system.  How about moving it to e-mail?
Newsgroups: nz.general
From: andy@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Andy Bond)
Subject: Re: nz.bbs.sysops
Organization: Distributed Systems Group, Comp Sci, Victoria University of Wellington
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 22:06:06 GMT

In article <Jy7csB2w165w@dogbox.acme.gen.nz> dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz writes:
><and someone else who wasn't quoted> says:
>>For a
>> start most of the people who look after news on their sites are system
>> administrators.
>
>That's 'cos most of the sites are mainframes.

What's a mainframe?  Would those using mainframes please stand up and
be counted ...

andy
Newsgroups: nz.general
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: Re: newsgroups, flames, et al.
From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke)
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 92 06:49:41 GMT
Organization: The Z*NET Global News Gateway. Parnell New Zealand

dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz writes:

> 
> OK. I think we've had enough of the flaming.
 
 I agree with that.

> Jon stuffed up twice in short sucession, and doesn't want to admit it.
> Fine.
 
 Hang on a minute here Mr Brown.  I did not stuff up at all and I will
 not admit to anything of the sort.

> Let him throw a wobbly tantrum in the corner like the three year
> old, caught with his hand in the cookie jar who gets upset when we don't
> believe his little sister made him do it.
 
 This is great from the boy who reposted my alt.config to this news group
 and had you taken the time to see the dates on those message you would 
 see they were all posted BEFORE you started your flame wars.
 
 
 Re the rest of the article you posted. 
 
 nz.general is the area to post it to we do not need a new newsgroup
 for bbs operators.
 
 nz.flamewars maybe an interesting one if you want to pursue it chap!

                                                  _
 Jon Clarke                                     o( )       
 jonc@status.gen.nz                            /  /\        GE: J.CLARKE6
 The Z*NET Global News Gateway in Auckland New Zealand      HSBC NZM  EBD
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: Re: nz.waffle?? (was Re: Hello....hello...is anybody home)
From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke)
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 92 06:33:19 GMT
Organization: The Z*NET Global News Gateway. Parnell New Zealand

Pat Cain <patrick@sideways.welly.gen.nz> writes:

> jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) in <gm38RB4w165w@status.gen.nz> writes:
> >  So much for the so called net.polite and net.wise UNI users in this 
> >  newsgroup.  I can imagine you all using this in every day speach but 
> >  should the NZ education system turn out such horrible delights in
> 
> Well stop replying to their messages then -- you're making yourself look
> silly by posting messages full of spelling mistakes and at the same time
> complaining about the education system.  How about moving it to e-mail?

 
 Well said Pat.

                                                  _
 Jon Clarke                                     o( )       
 jonc@status.gen.nz                            /  /\        GE: J.CLARKE6
 The Z*NET Global News Gateway in Auckland New Zealand      HSBC NZM  EBD
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: Re: nz.bbs.sysops
From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 17:24:48 GMT
Organization: The Z*NET Global News Gateway. Parnell New Zealand

dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz writes:

> 
> What I had in mind was an area for the small (BBS type) operations to be
> able to exchage info. Most DOS sites are waffle, but there are 3 sites
> here which run UUCP on amigas, and I have a user possibly looking at
> UUCPing on a mac - That's why I don't think nz.bbs.waffle is such a
> good name - too limiting.
> 
> I think both names have merit though. How about a bit more discussion on
> the issue?
 
 There is several groups under the alt areas that cover just this
 maybe you should be in there as answer to questions would be easy
 answered ie ... alt.bbs.internet or maybe comp.bbs.misc etc..

                                                  _
 Jon Clarke                                     o( )       
 jonc@status.gen.nz                            /  /\        GE: J.CLARKE6
 The Z*NET Global News Gateway in Auckland New Zealand      HSBC NZM  EBD
  
Newsgroups: nz.general,wgtn.char,cs.general
From: andy@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Andy Bond)
Subject: Free printer for school or something
Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., Victoria Uni. of Wellington, New Zealand.
X-Mailer: mail-news 4.0
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 00:47:32 GMT


I don't know if this is useful for someone but a friend has an IBM
5219 thermal printer with hood and a IBM 5202 pin wheel which need good
homes.

Send me email if interested.

andy
From: dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: Re: nz.bbs.sysops
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 92 19:38:18 +1300
Organization: The Dawghaus BBS, Palmerston North, New Zealand (+64 6 357 9245)

> > nz.bbs.sysop
> > -----------------
> 
> Nice idea but I don't believe that Usenet is anything like Fidonet.

Thank the lords of Chaos. Imagine how many poeple would lose their feeds
for not agreeing with the hubs.
Fido is full of weenie sysops with power complexes....

>For a
> start most of the people who look after news on their sites are system
> administrators.

That's 'cos most of the sites are mainframes.

> Therefore if we are going to have a group as suggested above
> I would think that a better name might be:
> 
> nz.news.admin
> 

What I had in mind was an area for the small (BBS type) operations to be
able to exchage info. Most DOS sites are waffle, but there are 3 sites
here which run UUCP on amigas, and I have a user possibly looking at
UUCPing on a mac - That's why I don't think nz.bbs.waffle is such a
good name - too limiting.

I think both names have merit though. How about a bit more discussion on
the issue?



dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz
The Dawghaus BBS, Palmerston North, New Zealand (+64 6 357 9245)


Xref: sparky nz.general:1445 nz.netstatus:239
Newsgroups: nz.general,nz.netstatus
Subject: Re: nz.waffle?? (was Re: Hello....hello...is anybody home)
From: ford@pinn.nacjack.gen.nz (Jamie Walker)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 07:44:21 +1200
Organization: The Pinnacle Club BBS, Auckland, New Zealand. +64-9-631-5382
Keywords: not NZ.*!

dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz writes:

> > You mean if I create a newsgroup which I send between me and say nacjack 
> > it'll automatically get sent overseas? Yeah, right. Only if the site 
> > sending overseas gets the newsgroup from the sites that are exchanging it 
> > amongst themselves.
> 
> It happened once. That was what started this mess.

Well in that case, a "please be more careful how you distribute this" 
would seem to be more appropriate than a "don't do it at all" type 
attitude...
Newsgroups: nz.general
From: kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I)
Subject: Re: nz.bbs.sysops
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 15:00:50 GMT
Organization: ACME BBS - Public Access Usenet, Palmerston North, New Zealand

john@actrix.gen.nz (John Vorstermans) writes:

> dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz writes:
> 
> > nz.bbs.sysop
> > -----------------
> > Charter:
> > 
> > nz.bbs.sysop is a group for bbs sysops to exchange news, views
> > information and flamage without it having to be seen in nz.general.
> > 
> > This newsgroup would serve a similar purpose to Fidonet's national Sysop
> > echo.
> 
> Nice idea but I don't believe that Usenet is anything like Fidonet.  For a 
> start most of the people who look after news on their sites are system
> administrators.  Therefore if we are going to have a group as suggested above
> I would think that a better name might be:
> 
> nz.news.admin
> 
> Now where have I seen this before.  :-)

I was thinking along similar lines, perhaps nz.admin might be an idea. Suggests
local news administration problems, as well as "admin" of the nz hierarchy.
nz.general isn't really appropriate for this, and despite my own attempts to
move things to nz.netstatus I don't really think that's what it's meant to be
used for either.

						- k
-- 
Craig Harding            kilroy@acme.gen.nz             ACME BBS +64 6 3551342
"Jub'er lbh pnyyvat n obmb?"
From: dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: Imminent Death of the net Predicted!!!
Summary: NZs very own flame war
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 92 18:56:59 +1300
Organization: The Dawghaus BBS, Palmerston North, New Zealand (+64 6 357 9245)


All this flamage makes me glad this isn't Fido(ugh)net



dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz
The Dawghaus BBS, Palmerston North, New Zealand (+64 6 357 9245)
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: DR DOS 6.0 and LAN Manager
From: ranald@pinn.nacjack.gen.nz (Ranald McIntosh)
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 92 21:26:56 +1200
Organization: The Pinnacle Club BBS, Auckland, New Zealand. +64-9-631-5382

I think that DR DOS 6.0 is great on stand-alone machines (both my work 
machines use it) but MS Lan and others don't seem to like it. The problem 
is that basically, for all it's dressing up, DR DOS 6.0 is MS DOS 3.1 
within a shell, and this raises a conflict with some LAN systems that 
look for the version of DOS being used. If it doesn't find what it 
expects, then it throws up an error message.
As far as a fix is concerned, sorry, haven'
t seen one yet.
Xref: sparky nz.general:1394 nz.comp:259
From: ihw@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: nz.general,nz.comp
Subject: Grad Assistantships in CS at Waikato
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:27:51 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

                      THE UNIVERSITY OF WAIKATO
             GRADUATE ASSISTANTSHIPS IN COMPUTER SCIENCE
                      (Several half-time posts)

Applications are invited for part-time graduate assistantships in the
Department of Computer Science.  These positions are intended to provide
financial support for students who are undertaking graduate studies in the
Department. Priority will be given to DPhil students but it is expected that
some of the posts will be offered to Masters- level students too.  In view of
funding uncertainties, the appointments are offered for one year terms in the
first instance.

Applicants should have completed a degree in Computer Science, and will
preferably have some tutoring or other teaching experience.  Duties will
include teaching of high-level programming languages (such as Modula-2) and the
use of popular software, as well as some marking and related support for
courses.

The appointments will be approximately half-time, (19.5 hours per week), and
the current rate of remuneration is $13,125 per annum.  Teaching duties extend
for 43 weeks in the year.  Graduate Assistants will not be expected to perform
teaching-related duties outside this period but will be expected to work
full-time on their degrees during the summer period.

Enquiries of an academic nature concerning the graduate programme may be made
to Professor Ian Witten, Department of Computer Science, telephone (7) 8384246,
fax (7) 8384155, email ihw@waikato.ac.nz; those relating to teaching duties
should be directed to Dr Lloyd Smith, telephone (7) 8384041, fax (7) 8384155,
email las@waikato.ac.nz.

Applicants should send a curriculum vitae and covering letter, naming three
referees whom the University may contact in confidence, to Academic Staffing
(Personnel), University of Waikato, Private Bag 3105, Hamilton, telephone (7)
8562889, Fax (7) 8560135.  Applications quoting reference number A92/54 should
reach Academic Staffing (Personnel) by 6 November 1992.

Places for appointees' children may be available in the creche run by the
Campus Creche Society (Inc).  Equal Opportunity is University policy.
Enquiries are welcome from all suitable applicants.
Newsgroups: nz.general
From: thetroll@rata.vuw.ac.nz (The Troll)
Subject: Re: nz.bbs.sysops
Organization: Computing Serv. Ctr, Victoria Uni., Wellington, New Zealand
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 01:52:48 GMT

In article <iBoksB3w165w@dogbox.acme.gen.nz> dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz writes:
>Depends on whether you want it to count. I define the average BBS owner
>as a sysop, as they don't do it for a living, they do it for fun.
>There is a usually a difference in philosophy between those who call
>themselves "system administrators" vs "system operators."

Professionism vs Amateurism? 

Sorry, couldn't resist. But an expansion on what you see the difference of
philosophy is (without having to promote one over the other, necessarily)
might be of interest to the net. 


--
Alex Heatley                                Computing Services Centre
Domain: Alex.Heatley@vuw.ac.nz              Victoria University of Wellington
"How does a project get to be a year late? ... One day at a time."