HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gds@ficus.cs.ucla.EDU (Greg Skinner)
Subject: Re: men crossing the street at night to avoid frightening women
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: in your face!
Date: 31 Dec 92 19:28:42 GMT

In article <1ho1c9INN1f7@agate.berkeley.edu> infmx!hartman writes:
>As a man, I must say that I don't have any problem with keeping a wide
>berth when I see a woman walking alone at night.  If I'm by myself, and
>I'm not in a huge hurry, it's just not that big a deal to adjust my
>pace to maintain a constant, respectable distance.

For argument's sake, let's say all non-threatening men decided to
maintain a respectable distance from women late at night, but it is
not possible to distinguish a non-threatening man from a man who
intends to do harm to women.  Would you say that women still have
something to fear, even though they would no longer be frightened by
non-threatening men? Would you say that steps ought to be taken to
empower women to defend themsleves against these men?  In other words,
does avoiding frightening women really help them protect themselves?
If women are given (and take) the means to protect themselves, what
purpose does the non-threatening men keeping a respectable distance
serve?

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From: turpin@cs.utexas.EDU (Russell Turpin)
Subject: Re: Pornography and values
Summary: Pornography a *male* interest?
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
Date: 2 Jan 93 05:25:59 GMT

-*----
In article <38029@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> djohns@elm.circa.ufl.EDU ("David A. Johns") writes:
> One interesting aspect of this debate about pornography is that
> *interest* in pornography, in our society, at least, is primarily
> male. ...

That depends on now one draws the categories.  Should one count
Harlequin romances as pornographic?  I think so.  If one does
this, then one recognizes that women have as much interest in
titillating media, i.e., pornography, as men.

> ... This leaves women in the enviable position of having
> nothing to lose in the battle to eliminate it.

There are many women who disagree, even if one restricts the
issue to the kind of pornography that appeals mostly to men.

> In fact, it seems that most activities that we define as immoral --
> generally those that involve sex or risk-taking -- are much more
> appealing to men than to women. ...

Damn.  Another blow to my chances of finding a compatible date.

Russell

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From: dwelch@devnull.mpd.tandem.com (Dan Welch)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Women's and men's safety
Date: 22 Dec 1992 16:20:01 GMT
Organization: Tandem Computers (MPD) Austin, TX
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

In article <MUFFY.92Dec17113231@remarque.berkeley.edu> muffy@remarque.berkeley.EDU (Muffy Barkocy) writes:
>In article <3144@devnull.mpd.tandem.com> dwelch@devnull.mpd.tandem.COM (Dan Welch) writes:
>>Karen, I understand your feelings, but you have to understand that the
>>"safety" men have is just an attitude, and one that may be wrong.
>
>1. Women are, on average, smaller.  My SO can pick me up and toss me
>across the room if he wants to.  He's not in incredible shape, although
>he's fairly strong, but I am very light.

This is, of course, completely true.  Unfortunately, there isn't much we
can do about it.  Size (and strength) difference is the biggest weakness
women have, I think.  Most of the things you can do to prevent crime,
though, don't have very much to do with size.  Self-defense, martial arts,
using a hatpin, or (if it's legal) a gun, are all size independent.  There
is a certain attitude one must have to use them, though.

>3. Women are less likely to be trained in defense.  My brother was sent
>to self-defense training; I was not.  Certainly, I *could* take such
>training, but how many people really do?  A lot more men learn to fight,
>one way or another.  Not all attackers have guns, after all.  The guy
>who tried to snatch my purse didn't have any weapons at all.

This is the crux of the matter, IMHO.  You ask "how many people really
do?" and the answer, certainly, is very few.  But it shouldn't be.  The
main reason men feel safer is that they feel more confident of their
ability to defend themselves.  Women can gain that confidence, but so
very few do that it's distressing.  Many don't want to even think about
it, but just accept their status as "targets".  For the life of me, I
don't understand that.

I tried to get my fiance to take self-defense classes for a long time,
and only succeeded after someone exposed himself to her while she was
jogging.  She had a can of pepper gas, but never carried it with her,
which she always does now.  It took a near-incident to get her to take
an active interest in her own safety.  It drove me crazy!  I can't figure
out why someone who thinks they are more vulnerable won't do anything
to make themselves *less* vulnerable.

What do we come back to?  The old "men protecting women" thing.  Just
speculating, but how many women do you suppose won't take self-defense
classes because it is "unfeminine", in one way or another?  This is
the attitude we must fight.

Daniel Welch


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From: gazit@cs.duke.edu (Hillel Gazit)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Version Five -- I better shut up!
Date: 25 Dec 1992 20:59:24 GMT
Organization: The Scorpions Nest
Distribution: world
Reply-To: gazit@cs.duke.edu (Hillel)
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

In article <199212212056.AA24308@altair.math.uiuc.edu> 
levine@symcom.math.uiuc.EDU (Lenore Levine) writes:

>I think the fourth category of antifeminist posters is not as obvious.
>I suspect that many of the male posters, complaining how they
>have been mistreated (on the job, in academia, or in the courts),
>actually have been. They are wrong only when they attribute this
>mistreatment to women (in general), affirmative action, or feminism.

How do you know?

What do you know about my life that you can say so surely that I'm 
wrong when I say that I was discriminated against by affirmative action?



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From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve Russell)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Clinton's Cabinet
Date: 29 Dec 1992 20:38:57 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

What do people think of Clinton's cabinet?

He did appoint four women, but Shalala aside, they seem very ordinary,
perhaps conservative.  It seems like the women who do climb up high
on the political ladder are mostly like this.  While it means something
for the opportunities for women who are into ladder climbing I dont see
any value in it beyond that.

Same shit, differnt sex.  For a white man who already has doors open
to him I dont see how it changes my world any beyond some cosmetic
alterations.

Any opinions

Steve


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From: kowan@rice-chex.ai.mit.edu (Rich Cowan)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: RESOURCE available on Masculinity and War
Date: 4 Jan 1993 05:06:20 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

The University Conversion Project, 
in the September 1992 issue, published
a 32-page booklet with bibliographies,
articles, list of organizations, and
organizing ideas pertaining to the
links between "Masculinity, War, Feminism
and Non-Violence."

Articles include "White Men in Ties Discussing
Missile Size," by Carol Cohn, "Male Violence
and Imperialism," by Lundy Bancroft, "Prostitution
and the Military," by Suniti Kumar, etc.

The Guide is available for $3 plus $1 postage from
UCP, P.O. Box 748, Cambridge, MA  02142.  You can
get more information by calling (617) 354-9363 from
10am to 6pm.



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From: falcao@felix.Metaphor.COM (Ronnie Falcao)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: NOMAS conference
Date: 2 Jan 1993 09:18:46 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

I just received an announcement for the 18th National
Conference on Men & Masculinity to be held at San Francisco
State University from July 8-11, 1993.

The conference is sponsored by The National Organization
for Men Against Sexism (NOMAS), "an activist organization
supporting positive changes for men.  NOMAS advocates 
a perspective that is pro-feminist, gay-affirmative, and
committed to justice on a broad range of social issues.
We affirm that working to make this nation's ideal of
equality real and substantive is the finest expression
of what it means to be men."

The announcement doesn't provide an official program, but
it does mention one-day institutes on:
	Men's Studies
	Ending Men's Violence
	Gay Rights/Homophobia
	Men, Mental Health & Psychology

The announcement does also contain a call for papers, 
presentations and performances at the coffeehouse.
Deadline Jan. 31, 1993.

For more information, write to:

M & M 18
P.O. Box 43714
Tucson, AZ  85733-3714

or call 602-577-7234

Or, if you want a short answer to a quick question about
the announcement, send me e-mail.

	- Ronnie

falcao@metaphor.com



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Newsgroups: soc.college
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Herstory
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:34:53 GMT

In article <85720@ut-emx.uucp> andy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Andrew Hackard) writes:
>thf2@midway.uchicago.edu (Ted) writes:
>>No one ever said the word 
>>"history" was sexist or wants to abolish it.  "Herstory" is a play on words 
>>and refers to a distinctly different approach to historical interpretation.
>
>I happen to object to the word "herstory" on purely esthetic grounds.  It
>ranks right up with PC abominations such as "looksism" and "womyn"
>(plural womien?).  It has nothing to do at all with my views on the place 
>of women (or wimmin, or womyn) in our society.

"Herstory" is different than "history" -- it's not an attempt to replace
one word for a single concept with another, it's an attempt to create a
word for an entirely different concept.  

As such, I propose that the people who run the field have every right to
call it whatever they want, be it "herstory," "feminist history," or "Bob."

>>If you're so dead-set on attacking feminism, there's enough out there to
>>address without making up these straw men (or women as the case may be :) 
>
>I'm not in the least trying to attack feminism.  I'd object equally
>strenuously to someone referring to Andrew as a "himmicaine".

<rim shot>.  I suggest the two are not analagous.  Andrew is substantially
the same concept as Alicia, and there would be no point in having a different
word to describe the hurricanes.  "Herstory" is a play on words to name
a specific kind of "history" study.  

I agree with you that it sounds grating to unfamiliar ears.  But I'd imagine
most newly-named fields of subject have eventually escaped that problem,
otherwise everyone would still be studying philosophy (which is at least as
contrived a word as "herstory," but escapes scrutiny because the word's been
around much longer).
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
From: geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: TEXAS SOUTHERN UNIVERSITY
Date: 23 Dec 92 20:09:45 GMT
Reply-To: geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU
Organization: Amos Tuck School
Disclaimer: I don't represent Dartmouth and Dartmouth doesn't represent me.

In <2239.347.uupcb@yob.sccsi.com> erich.lim@yob.sccsi.com (Erich Lim)  writes:

>Now Japan and other countries are going to think negative
>about the U.S. schools.  

That's OK, Japan already has a low opinion of the United States,
especially when it comes to crime.

>Yesterday (Thursday), the President of TSU has
>disbanded their Marching Band.  I don't know if the students were
>expelled or not, but they were thinking about that..  

Well, that's part of the problem. Once they got everyone back at TSU and
started looking into things they discovered that a lot of people in the
band weren't even TSU students!

-Geoff
--
geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU - Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business
    "I feel like a hypocrite talking to you... and your rascist firends."
                            - They Might Be Giants
Xref: sparky soc.college:5864 alt.usage.english:9930
From: meachem@acsu.buffalo.edu (The Meach)
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Sexist language
Date: 23 Dec 92 17:07:01 GMT
Organization: UB

For all of those who don't believe that we are so accustomed to seeing the
singular 'they' that we can read right past it without even seeing it:

In article <1992Dec23.155119.4419@cc.umontreal.ca> cholette@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Cholette Martin) writes:
>In article <1992Dec23.063815.433@news.eng.convex.com> tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen) writes:
>>:>>    "Ask your SO whether they're interested."
>>:       This sentence is improper,  when I ask a friend if their Significant
                                                             ^^^^^ 
>>:       Other is comming,  I know what sex his girlfriend is! :-)
From: turnerbl@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Repost: Gift for friend joining fraternity?
Date: 3 Jan 93 19:07:51 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati

In article <1993Jan1.054437.5810@news.columbia.edu>, jsl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (J. Shawn Landres) writes:
> In article <92365.115027ICSCH@ASUACAD.BITNET> <ICSCH@ASUACAD.BITNET> writes:
>>A humorous gift for a guy joining a fraternity might be a shirt which equates
>>beer with college.  
>>
>>--Scott Hume, Chapter Advisor, Sigma Pi at ASU
> 
> It's ideas like this and advisers like you who hinder any attempt at making 
> the fraternity experience a meaningful one. Go read your charter, read your
> creed, and check out your risk-reduction policy.
> 
> /Shawn Landres
> Marshal, Chaplain-elect, Sigma Nu Fraternity, Delta Gamma Chapter
> Columbia University
> 
> Ours is a multi-racial group of men of all backgrounds, dedicated to honor 
> above all, and to living up to the pre-drunken-stupor and pre-rape-happy 
> ideals of fraternal life. We are founded against hazing, as well.


Hey Shawn, 

Lighten up pal!  How easy the answers must seem, as an undergraduate.  The orig
poster asked for a gift idea, and Scott responded with a suggestion.  You too
have the option to respond with a suggestion too.  All of us who are chapter
advisors face similar problems, and zelots like you only complicate them.

A tee-shirt does not a drunk make, the idiot in the shirt does the drinking. 
Additionaly, the shirt is not worn by greeks only, hence, you can have drunk
shirtless greeks,  drunks in shirts who are not greeks as well as sober shirted
greeks.  

As far as your creedo, I suggest you check back into your history as to exactly
how long your fraternity has been multi ethnic.  I would'nt go touting any 
greek house as partic open minded these days, as the whole idea of selective 
membership is just a tad hard to tout as being "open." 

There are many battles to be waged, and wars to be won.  Be nice to your
advisors, we are a valuable resource.  Be nice to each other, as we are all in
this together.  Give of your intelligence, not your opinions, as intelligence
is based in fact, opinions are based in perceptions.  Actions, not words.

B. Turner
University of Cincinnati
Chapter Advisor
 
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@convex.COM>
Subject: Re: They (was Re: Shaking people up with "she"? (was Re: Sexist language))
Originator: tchrist@pixel.convex.com
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 06:37:40 GMT
Reply-To: tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen)
Organization: Convex Computer Corporation, Colorado Springs, CO
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

From the keyboard of mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi):
:>Few people object to
:>"Someone's been eating my porridge, and they've eaten it all up."
:
:And few would object to :
:"Someone's been eating my porridge, and he or she has eaten it all up."

I would -- it sounds ridiculous to my ear to go through such complex
contortions when 'they' is perfectly fine.

:Both usages are acceptable, though the latter is grammatically correct.

Wrong.  'they' is also grammatically correct.  Get a clue, Mandar.

--tom
-- 
    Tom Christiansen      tchrist@convex.com      convex!tchrist

    "A witty saying proves nothing."
		    -- Voltaire
Xref: sparky soc.college:5863 alt.usage.english:9928
From: cholette@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Cholette Martin)
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Sexist language
Date: 23 Dec 92 15:51:19 GMT
Organization: Universite de Montreal

In article <1992Dec23.063815.433@news.eng.convex.com> tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen) writes:
>:>>    "Ask your SO whether they're interested."
>:       This sentence is improper,  when I ask a friend if their Significant
>:       Other is comming,  I know what sex his girlfriend is! :-)
>
>Apparently you hang out with a rather conservative crowd.  Don't assume
>you know the gender of someone's SO.

You can read?  I said 'a' friend. I have many friends some of them are 
homosexual.  Besides the fact that even if I do hang out with a 'conservative'
(a normative quality, and something that we can always argue about... I say I am
not conservative but to your standards (warped as they may or may not be) I am
'Conservativ Man' (tm)) crowd it doesn't change the fact that the sentence is
unecessarily ambiguous.

>
>The sentence is not improper -- you spelling of 'coming', however, is.
                                !!??^??!!
Well it seems that we are not all perfect.  But *I* understand that mistakes
can made and not noticed.  *I* know that while trying to answer a post people
get excited and start typing a little faster than they should and that they 
may make a few mistakes.  But hey that is 'Conservative Man' (tm) for you!

Happy Holidays,
Michael Bertrand,
 __________    _      _   ________         _      _    _      _
|             |     /    |                |     /      \     /  
    |         |    /     |   _____        |    /        \   /   
    |         |          |                |              >      
    |         |    \     |   _____        |    \        /   \   
    |         |     \    |                |     \      /     \ _ 
  
cholette@jsp.umontreal.ca
Xref: sparky soc.college:5862 alt.usage.english:9916
From: mckeonj@ul.ie
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
Subject: Schuerzinger SIG
Date: 23 Dec 92 09:41:36 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland

In article <1992Dec16.163403.18890@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger) writes:
> --Ted Schuerzinger
> email: .zed@Dartmouth.EDU
> "I should have known it would be bad vodka when all the label said was
> 'Russian Vodka'."
If you think the VODKA is bad, try the KONYAK - Sheesh!
-- 
"If England sleeps, shall Ireland dream?" : Se/an macEoin
-------------------------------------------------------------------
John McKeon, Material Science Dept. University of Limerick, Ireland
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
From: pel@resntl.bhp.com.au (Paul Osborn)
Subject: Re: Frosh (was Re: Sexist language (was...
Organization: BHP Research - Newcastle Labs
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 21:51:59 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.153645.28797@bmerh85.bnr.ca> nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau) writes:
>From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
>Subject: Re: Frosh (was Re: Sexist language (was...
>Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 15:36:45 GMT
>In article <BzDLxF.I1M@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi) writes:
>>
>>I didn't intend to insult feminists. But you realise that there *are*
>>feminists who believe that the female race is superior to the male
>>race, don't you? Not just that, they allow this prejudice to distance
>>themselves from men.
>
>The male "race"?  The female "race"?
>
>       The Rhealist - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself

Perhaps the poster meant the male race and female race as subsets of the 
human race ? And sometimes the feminists mentioned are right, some females 
are superior to some males, in some things.


-------- PAUL R OSBORN, Research Scientist, Sensing Technology --- /\/\ --
                BHP Research - Newcastle Laboratories, Australia  / / /\
Snail   :       P.O. Box 188, Wallsend, NSW 2287                 / / /  \
Tel     :       +61 49 51-0605  Fax : +61 49 50-2126            / / / /\ \
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