From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Freedom, Social Responsibility, Individual Responsibility
Date: 16 Dec 1992 17:27:48 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: gondolin.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Dec16.164049.2990@mmm.serc.3m.com> ccg@tcdsp1.mmm.com  
("Charles Ganzhorn") writes:
> In article <1992Dec16.135700.1991@bmerh85.bnr.ca>, paynter@bnr.ca  
(Stuart Paynter) writes:
>> |> I go....  Yes it is your skull.  By you cracking your skull  
open, you 
> |> affect (possibly)
> |> 
> |>      - any people that may present when the accident occured
> 
> The only effect is they see something unpleasant.  Sorry folks, but  
I don't
> change my behaviour just to coddle your sensibilities.

First of all, why not?  In most situations, we all make tradeoffs,
and we all (or almost all) make some changes in behavior based
on what those around us think.  This is a cost/benefit analysis
sort of decision: how much are others affected vs. how much
the changed behavior means to me.  But, for example, I don't
belch loudly after a meal with friends since this gives me
very little benefit while annoying those around me.

Secondly, most accidents have more profound effects on those
present when the accident occurs.  Have you never been in a long
traffic jam, caused by someone who has had an accident?  

> 
> |>      - ambulance/paramedics/fire/police who have to come and  
patch
> |>        you up
> |>      - hospital emergency staff
> |>      - hospital staff (doctors, nurses, orderlies, kitchen staff
> |>        etc etc) while you recover.
> 
> I pay for all that stuff so I'm just being a good consumer.  It's  
their job to
> patch silly fools like me up.

No, we all pay for them.  Why should folks who behave responsibly
and therefore rarely get into accidents have to pay the same 
amount as the silly fools (to use your words) who behave 
irresponsibly and get into accidents.

Furthermore, all towns have limited resources.  The ambulance
and police who have to come and help you because you've spilled
your brains all over the sidewalk can't be across town to help
the kid who just fell down the stairs or the old woman who
just got hit by a car.
> 
> |>      - any person who also needs the hospital bed you are  
occupying
> 
> I have just as much right to use the services as anyone else

Why?  Just to take on of those hypothetical, "this will never
really happen this way" situation: what if the hospital has
one bed left (or, more realistically, one doctor available
in the emergency room).  Now, they wheel you and someone who
just had a heart attack into the emergency room. Both of you
need attention NOW.  Who should that one doctor help?  Should
he give priority to you?  Why?

> 
> |>      - your (and/or your employers) medical insurance
> |>      - every other person on that medical insurance plan
> 
> So do the hypocondriacs, and people with cronic conditions.  Again,  
I have
> these services because I NEED them.  Perhaps I'll use more than I  
might have
> but that's what they are there for.

Fine. The solution to this part of it then is to make you pay more
for you insurance so the rest of us don't have to pay for you.
Many insurance companies now charge less to those who don't smoke,
since it costs them less to service these folks. Why not do the
same with helmets and seat belts:  charge those who wear them
less than those who don't.   If someone claims to wear them,
but gets into an accident not wearing them (helmet or seat belt),
than the insurance company only pays X% instead of Y%, and the
"fool" has to pay for the rest him/herself.

> |>      - lawyers/judges/court employees if there is a lawsuit
> 
> Again, I pay for this stuff either directly or through taxes.  I'm  
just using
> services I've already paid for.

But, we all pay the same. If you want to use more of these 
services, perhaps you should have to pay more.

--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  

Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc