HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:25:34 GMT

David Plumpton says:

>>>My Karate Sensei has told us a couple of times that a sufficiently enraged,
>>>drugged or mentally handicapped person can escape from *any* form of joint
>>>lock or hold by simple brute force.

Stephen Chan replies:
>
>>	I suggest that your Sensei, while an expert at Karate, isn't
>>necessarily an expert in locking/pinning techniques. If you're good at what
>>you do, then as soon as someone squirms out of pin #1, you herd them into
>>pin #2, and so on, until you nail them down with one (or decide to be nasty and
>>break something).

I think I'd have to agree with David's sensei here.  I've done Hapkido
for a number of years (ok, so I didn't get my black belt!) and I work
out with the Hapkido black belts quite often.  Against a determined,
skilled, or stronger opponent about 3/4 of the jointlocks and
techniques just don't work.  They are great for teaching concepts,
but only a few really work.  Since I outweigh any of them by 20
pounds, they always use me as a test dummy, and I can often either
ignore the lock and do an attack, or reverse the technique simply by
the use of strength (NOT by my knowledge of the technique).  Of
course, you can always kick him in the shins and THEN go into the
lock, increasing your chance for success.

>>	As a matter of fact, I know a Hapkido instructor who successfully
>>gained control of and pinned a PCP'ed assailant for about 15 minutes, until
>>the police came. He claims that while the guy had lots of strength, it was very
>>"shallow", and *extremely* easy to manipulate him.

Now THIS is really interesting.  I've never heard about a similar 
incident.  Can you give us details?  How much did each person weigh?
Was either already injured?  How long had PCP-madman been running
amok?  What control was used?

Dakin
burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: conditioned reflexive chins
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:16:57 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <75482@apple.apple.COM> mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins) writes:
>and it might not always work. Therefore, it is prudent to
>develop a conditioned reflex to drop the chin whenever you
>feel something going around your neck.

	Like you get from studying

	JUDO!!!!

	:-) :-) :-)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Stupid Religious Views
From: ttrimble@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 19 Dec 92 16:27:17 EST
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <1992Dec18.104506.803@hls.com>, silatman@hls.com writes:
> 
> 
>                THE OLD MAN HAD TIMING!
>                by Khalid Khan.
> 
>    Some people in today's society think that all talk about
> God and prayer should be kept for a time different than

[lots o' bullshit and a cute story deleated] 

>    Timing!
> 
>    The old man had timing. 
> 
>    For power and speed you can work at it yourself.
> But for Timing you need Seeing. This is not just
> physical Seeing from the eyeballs, but a kind of 
> Spiritual Seeing, which is infinitely faster.
> 
>    For this second kind of Seeing, you need
> the Grace of God. You need to pray to Him, because
> without that Seeing all your technique,
> all your power, all your speed adds to nothing.
> 
>                Salam Alaikum!
> 
>                               Khalid Khan
> 
	seems funny that you should say that this 90 year old master has an
attribute that has something to do with YOUR narrow little religion!  i would
tend to think that this 90 year old master is a BUDDHIST and has INTUITION
rather than some sort of "spiritual seeing".  also seems funny that the KEY to
the martial arts should be a religious belief comming origionally from the
middle-east.  i would immagine that the buddhist beliefs around which most
martial arts were developed would lend more aid in the understanding and
mastery of the arts.
	perhaps i am biased.  i seem to be unable to pray to HIM because i
burst into fits of laughter at the stupidity of HIS religion...

							-tom
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ek@patty.gud.siemens.co.at (Ernst Krudl)
Subject: Re: group for judo?
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 07:27:22 GMT
Organization: SIEMENS Austria Corp., A-1100 Wien, Gudrunstr. 11
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

In the beginning I was confused about all the different articles, and
would have preferred a special group for taiji, but now after some
month I say to myself: thanks god martial arts is one group and I hope it
will stay that way. I can choose what I like to read and do not have to 
switch and look and switch and look and search etc.

Ernst Krudl, Vienna, Austria, Europe (ek@patty.gud.siemens.co.at)
From: JTCHEW@lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: where to buy a CLUB for my car
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts
Date: 17 Dec 1992 20:44:09 GMT
Organization: Honest Ernie's Used Ions
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.252.152

>  police officers beat motorist to death with MAG-LITE-type flashlights
    ^^^^^^
>There has been some discussion of regulating such flashlights here.

As a pretty smart fellow I know put it in another context, you're going 
to need a good sense of irony to get along in the 90s.

Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
From: silatman@hls.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Why they like Bruce
Date: 16 Dec 92 01:29:08 GMT


    I would like to ask: 

     When some martial artists say they meditate, or
do heavy breathing for development of chi, etc. what
are they concentrating on? Are they thinking about 
their Creator [God], or is it a "secular" meditation? 

     Where does chi, or whatever ability they are
seeking originate from? Does it come from their own
willpower? 

     When Bruce says your truth is your truth and
my truth is my truth, many people like to hear that.
But now Bruce himself is with absolute truth.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: robin2@garfield.cs.mun.ca (Robin Collier)
Subject: Re: Kenpo
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:03:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.134658.2907@gacvx2.gac.edu> croberts@next-1.gac.edu (Christopher J Roberts) writes:
>A local gym recently began to offer classes on Kenpo.
>My question is "What exactly is it?  I was told it was
>a Korean style of karate but other than that I am ignorant.
>Any information would be greatly appreciated.  Feel free to
>email me or to post.
>
>			-- Chris --
>
>croberts@gac.edu
>
><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Did Adam and Eve have belly buttons?

Kenpo has its roots in China, not Korea.  There are several different
styles or schools of kenpo around, I train in kenpo myself but I am
sure I would probably find a lot of differences between some of the
training I do and some of the kenpo systems in the States (I am in
eastern Canada).  My training involves a little bit of everything, 
grappling, joint locks and other self defense, as well as punching and 
kicking in both tournament and street situations.  We are continually 
trying new things and learn to keep an open mind, my head instructor 
thinks that another style such as JUDO (emphasized for all those judoko 
who aren't getting enough air time.  Chuckle, chuckle) would be great to 
enhance ones skill as a martial artist and all around fighter.

To really know what its all about, go to a class and ask the instructor,
its the only way to be sure.


Robin Collier 
robin2@garfield.cs.mun.ca


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ftit@ob.engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman)
Subject: Re: Agreed: rec.martial-arts hierarchy
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 16:32:23 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: ftit@ob.engin.umich.edu


In article <BzJIMI.JHJ@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
|
|I think we should really break up this group.  martial arts as a term is
|so general.  hapkido, judo, 200 types of karate, gun-fu, PCP-fu.. :)
|
|This is just a little suggestion, no need to flame. :)
|
|rec.martial-arts.hapkido  -  Hapkido discussions
|                 judo     -  Judo, obviously..
|                 karate   -  all styles of karate..
|                 hype     -  martial-art bullshit like super ninjas and 
|                             catching bullets. :)
|                 western  -  Western martial arts.. knives, guns,
|                             general non-Asian combat
|                 misc     -   Anything else.
|

                  celtic   -  Anything requiring the wearing of kilts
                              and teaching of Death Touches (tm)

|I say we do it! :)  Let's get this baby sorted out so it's more
|efficiently read..
|

By all means!

|    // Amiga 3000   ___ \ Sam Hulick: shulick@indiana.edu (NeXTmail OK!)

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  ftit@engin.umich.edu   |   "... a stainless steel rat in the       |
|    (Sergej Roytman)     |  ferroconcrete wainscoting of Internet"   |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Say no to four-line .sigs.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jlahti@pcuf.fi (Jarmo Lahti)
Subject: Re: group for judo?
Organization: The PC-users of Finland
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:48:20 GMT

*>From: dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe)
*>Message-ID: <1992Dec14.081434.19231@netcom.com>
*>Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 08:14:34 GMT
*>Use a kill-file.  Kill everything, and only re-mark articles
*>containing the word JUDO.
*> The consensus around here seems to be that the cross-
*>pollination that occurs (when the terminology is not too much of a
*>barrier) from having different styles discussed in the same forum
*>far outweighs the minimal effort required to ignore messages that
*>you are not interested in.  If your newsreader doesn't do this for
*>you, get a better one.  RN, TRN, NN, TIN, GNUS should all be able to
*>handle it.. 
I am reading news in a system having no rn,trn,nn,tin,gnus... but
after reading several comments on the subject and thinking it over
again: I can handle this 50-150 kB daily martial-arts portion. After
all, there are much interesting posts not even one occurrense of word
"judo" anywhere.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar)
Subject: Re: Sternum strike vs. Solar plexus
Reply-To: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:11:00 +0000

Mary Malmros writes:
>*sigh*
>
>*count to 10*
>
>People.  Please.  Read before posting.
>
>As I have said over and over again, the point of a sternum strike is
>to help propel yourself away from your attacker, NOT to break your
>attacker's sternum or something equally silly.
>
>You are all -- Dakin, Steve G., and Lieven -- making the same mistake, and
>that is to assume that the only point of a strike is the damage that
>it will do to your attacker.  Generally speaking, that's the purpose of
>a strike, but it's not always the exclusive purpose, or even the primary
>purpose.  The sternum strike is an example of a case where the "strike"
>is actually part of an escape.
>
                                            
For what it's worth -I agree with you, Mary, perhaps you would get
more mileage by calling it a stong/sharp push or a shove (something
like that). The sternum is an excellent place to push because it
propels the whole of the opponents torso away from you (or you away
from it) rather than folding them thus bringing their head forwards
as would happen when you strike to the solar plexus.


Bill Burgar.
From: roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com (Robert Stroud)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: qi - any simple exercises?
Date: 18 Dec 92 21:49:11 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

In article <mcdevitt.724674635@taupe> mcdevitt@rtsg.mot.com (Aidan McDevitt) writes:
>
>I was wondering if there are any simple exercises by which one
>could build up qi in the body to the point of being able to feel it.
 
    I have always noticed that I can feel my "gi" on my
    body after a fresh ironing and starch :-)


-- 
Robert Stroud       Robert_Stroud@simulacrum.wv.tek.com
Obukan Kendo Club   Portland Oregon USA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: wut@acf3.NYU.EDU (Tom Wu)
Subject: Tai Chi Instructor in Highland Park, NJ
Organization: New York University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 01:16:00 GMT



	Since there seems to be a lot of people on this net
looking for a good Tai Chi Instructor in NJ, I'll post one of
them here. His name is Benjamin, and he has been practicing 
tai chi for 30 years. His style is "Wu" short form, consisting
about 200 movements. If you are interested, give him a call.
His number is (908)220-1406. Call if you are seriously interested.
And don't expect quick results from him. It usually takes a 
beginner about a year and half to get half decent with the
complete form. And if you have an explosive personality( looking
at martial arts as a way to harass others) don't even bother.
He is teaching Tai Chi strictly for self defense purposes.
He also teaches pushing hand, both stationary and dynamic.


	Tell him that you heard it from the net.


					---Tom
From: mmoore@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Mike Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: new SEAL book title?
Date: 11 Dec 92 16:30:36 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Dec10.200330.17205@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
>>A SEAL named Sharkman? Must of had a Whale of a good time writting that one.
>	And made some clams while having it!

I hear the movie version will have Dolph-in it.

Mike Moore
From: weltman@adoc.xerox.com (Rob Weltman)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Tae Kwon Do in Mountain View, CA
Keywords: Class, Taekwondo
Date: 16 Dec 92 22:35:19 GMT
Reply-To: weltman@adoc.xerox.com
Organization: Xerox PARC, Palo Alto, CA


  Hope it's OK to post a little info on a non-profit
class that is offered in the SF Bay Area?


Tae Kwon Do Classes Offered in Mountain View, California
--------------------------------------------------------

WHAT IS TAE KWON DO?

Tae Kwon Do is a Korean form of Karate that has dramatically grown
in popularity. This traditional martial art teaches basic skills
and emphasizes the development of a sound mind and body.  The goal of
Tae Kwon Do training is the realization of an individual's physical
potential concentrated in the study of blocks, punches and kicks
designed to develop skill and confidence in self-defense.


WHERE IS IT TAUGHT?

The Mountain View School of Tae Kwon Do is located at the Mountain
View Community Center at 201 S. Rengstorff Ave in Mountain View.
All classes are offered through the City of Mountain View Parks
and Recreation Dept.

WHO TEACHES?

All instructors are third and second degree black belts.  Each
instructor has over 10 years teaching experience.


WHAT IS THE MOUNTAIN VIEW SCHOOL OF TAE KWON DO ALL ABOUT?

The school is a non-profit organization.  All instructors volunteer
their time so the classes are very inexpensive.  The cost for a three
month session for a non Mountain View resident is $40.00, this works
out to less than a $1.75 a class.  The adult class meets Tuesdays and
Thursdays from 7:00 to 8:30.  The club also does other fun activities
outside of class like bay area camping trips and movie nights that the
club usually subsidizes.  The club has about 60 members; 35 in the 
childrens class and 25 in the adult class.  If you want to get in
shape, learn a new and valuable skill and meet new friends come check
us out!  The next class session starts soon, sign-up at the
Community Center or come by and watch a workout.  Spectators are
always welcome.

DETAILS:
                                                                   Fee
                  Age           Day    Time        Class Date     res/non res
Adult class       16+           T/TH   7:00-8:30   1/5-3/25      $35/40
Childrens class   2nd-8th grds  T/TH   6:00-6:50   1/12-3/25     $25/30



For class registration information call the City of Mountain View Parks
and Recreation at (415) 903-6331 or for general information call Bob Hodges
at (408) 943-7925 (hodges%ralph@sde.mdso.vf.ge.com) or Neil Kruse at 
(415) 961-9709 (KRUSE_NEIL@tandem.com).


---

---------------------------------------------
| Rob Weltman                               |
| Xerox                                     |
| 3400 Hillview Ave, building 5             |
| Palo Alto, CA  94303                      |
|                                           |
| weltman@adoc.xerox.com                    |
| phone (415)-813-7477   fax (415)-813-6792 |
---------------------------------------------
From: jchristian@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: stranglehold
Date: 13 Dec 92 21:45:45 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

In article <4364@unisql.UUCP>, wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
> In article <1992Dec12.013515.6182@desire.wright.edu> jchristian@desire.wright.edu writes:
> 
>> If you feel like your throat's being mangled after just one
>>second, then the other person is doing it right.
> 
> 	No, if that's the feeling then the other guy is relying on 
> strength and not doing it right at all.  A proper strangle looks (and
> feels) like a caress.
> 							W.rat
> 
> 

How do you define "right?"  Seems to me it doesn't matter much if someone is
strangling me the "right" way vs. the "wrong" way, if the end result is me
being incapacitated.  I would argue difference of style.

Jeff
From: peterf@ariel.yorku.ca (Peter Forth)
Subject: Re: Drugs & Fighting (was Finishing techniques)
Originator: peterf@juno.ariel.yorku.ca
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Distribution: york
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:44:50 GMT




Once my old instructor told me a story about two guys who he used to know
who would take Acid before sparring with each other.  He tried sparring with
them once and discovered that although neither opponent was very skilled while
off the drug, while the drug was in effect, their awareness approached the
level of a good blackbelt.  Of course it goes without saying that the more
aware you are in a fight (of yourself, your opponent, your surroundings etc) the
better you'll do.


Peter Forth.
From: jchristian@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: stranglehold
Date: 12 Dec 92 01:35:15 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

In article <4325@unisql.UUCP>, wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
> In article <1g4uudINNi8i@usenet.pa.dec.com> stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark) writes:
>>You don't consider being unconscious to be an incapacitation ?
> 
> 	Unless you attack my arteries or crush my windpipe, I won't 
> be unconcious.  The attack being described doesn't attack those targets,
> except indirectly by pressure on the surrounding tissues.
> 
> 	No, I don't consider the kind of primitive attack being described- 
> fingers around the neck - to be incapacitating.  Not quickly, at least.  
> Uncomfortable, yes.  In my opinion, only a proper carotid choke or a strong
> bar-across-the-larynx attack is dangerous enough to panic over.  
> 									wr
> 
> 
> 



Beg to differ on that point.  Someone who knows what they're doing with a
strangehold can render you helpless in about one second.  That's nothing fancy,
no strong armbars-across the larynx kinda stuff.  That kind of grip is not
merely uncomfortable, like a bad movie-style choke, and it doesn't give you
time to play with like a blood choke.  You're not helpless, by any means, but
you have only that one second of self-control to pull something off.  Anything
else after that is going to be desperately grabbing at straws.  The problem is
worse for guys who have the huge Adam's apple.

If you've never experienced a really good stranglehold, try to get someone to
perform it on you.  If you feel like your throat's being mangled after just one
second, then the other person is doing it right.


Jeff
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: stranglehold
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:23:39 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Dec14.145139.6213@desire.wright.edu> jchristian@desire.wright.edu writes:
> [ deleted ]

	<sigh>

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jo.lavoy%theweb@meaddata.com (Jo Lavoy) 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: MARTIAL ARTS INFO
Date: 14 Dec 92 06:41:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Web BBS 1-513-436-9011 6 Lines 1200 News groups 50,000 files!
Reply-To: jo.lavoy%theweb@meaddata.com (Jo Lavoy) 

I can't tell where you  live, Nancy, but I feel that ninjutsu offers
what you're looking for.  It's a self-protection art, has no
competitions or trophy-collecting, is quite pragmatic, and I haven't
found anyone involved in the authentic art who's on any sort of ego trip
at the expense of new students.   Note the word "authentic".  There are
a heck of a lot of just plain fake ninjutsu schools out there.  I'm not
going to risk insulting anyone by listing the outright fakes, but I WILL
name a group I know is legitimate.  Any club or dojo associated with
Stephen K. Hayes' is okay.   If you're wondering if there's anyone in
your area, a letter to the Nine Gates Institute, P.O. Box 160,
Germantown, Ohio 45327 will get you the information you need.
   I'm a 53-year old woman who's been practicing ninjutsu for almost 7
years.
From: jchristian@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Date: 13 Dec 92 21:34:36 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

In article <1992Dec12.201036.4602@cs.brown.edu>, tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus) writes:
> 
> jchristian@desire.wright.edu writes:
> 
>>OK for the dojo, but that PCP condition really throws a monkey wrench 
>>into the works.  Plenty of cases where a normal joe spaced out on PCP 
>>fights off 5-6 cops who are trying to BEAT him into submission.  
> 
> 
>    As a general rule, an intoxicated person has an increased 
>    resistance to pain & damage, but an impaired sense of balance.
>    This implies a throw is in order.  To make sure you are not 
>    grabbed, be sure to "lead" them off-balance as much as possible --
> 
>      -- Ted --

I'll admit I don't know the effects of PCP vs. alcohol, but I'm pretty sure
that it's very dangerous to say that they're similar.  There are too many cases
of PCP'd out people with broken arms still punching the bejeezus out of cops. 
I don't know enough about PCP to know how it affects balance.  I would much
rather face an enraged drunk MA than ANYBODY on PCP.  That idea scares me
silly.

Jeff
>
From: trose@next.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: bags
Keywords: thai bag, heavy bag
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:11:24 GMT
Reply-To: trose@next.com


while we are the subject of bags...
Does anyone know where I might obtain
a 6 foot bag??  of any weight.....


thanks 

tracy in boston
trose@next.com
From: z_coolidgeas@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: re: Sparring with women (again) (was RE:Model Mugging)
Date: 11 Dec 92 17:50:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: ccsvax.1992Dec11.115000.2153
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

When I sparring, I don't expect a guy to hold back since I'm female, and I let
him know this by going as full out as instructed.  In my experience, they got
over the fact that I was female and concentrated on the sparring.  No
questions, no feelings hurt.

--Akane
From: td06@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (THOMAS EDWARD DEFLAVEES)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Separate Newsgroup for Judo? (was: Re: Judo Esoterica )
Date: 19 Dec 92 16:16:25 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

>>One of the two fundamental principals of judo is "Maximum Efficiency,
>>Minimum Effort."  "That sounds exactly like my art!" I hear you exclaim.
>
>Has anyone else noticed there's *way* too much discussion
>of Judo in this newsgroup?  Why don't we make a separate
>newgroup, like rec.martial-arts.judo, so we can get these
>throwey-chokey types the hell out of here?
>
>Any votes?
>
how wonderfully narrow-minded !  How beautifully exclusionary !  However, I
supposed each and Every one of us is entitled to hold their own opinions.
>
>
>Hey, it was a joke, ok?
>
Ok...we'll let it slide ...... this time
>--
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts