From: hobbes@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com (Stephen Camp)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Mortal danger?
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:41:55 GMT
Organization: Martin Marietta, Denver

In article <EfNJw430Bwx28TITd4@transarc.com> Stephen_Y._Chan@transarc.com writes:

[snip]

>
>	It seems to me that when you are only responsible for
>yourself, then you can be as humble as you damn well please. But if
>you are responsible for your family, your friends, your school, your
>style, whatever, then your personal humility may turn into some kind
>of communal shame or embarassment. All kinds of hairy concepts like
>honor and duty get thrown into the decision process. While they may
>seem empty and stupid to yourself, others may not feel the same way.
>Like they say, no man is an island.
>

First, I would like to thank Stephen (I think you sent me advice) and all
the others for their time to send me e-mail recommending martial arts to 
consider.  (I specified that I was interested in self-defense, not sport.)
At first, I was more or less set on Wing Chun, or one of the Chinese forms.
But several people wrote about Jeet Kune Do, Bruce Lee's art (i.e. the one
he developed), which, from what I've been told, is combat modified wing chun
with influence from western boxing and fencing (the footwork, i think).
Anyways, I don't mean to get into a flame fest about JKD is better than this
art or that art.  I'm just saying I chose JKD and thanks for all the 
suggestion.

Anyways, to the matter at hand... I am a born-again Christian and to this
minute I still struggle with resolving what Christ would do in a situation,
and what _I_ would want to do.  However, Stephen Chan raises a very good point:
self-defense vs defense of your wife, your children etc.  If I'm at a bar,
walking down the street to my car in the evening, or, say, street evangelising,
and someone pops me in the face, or threatens to mug me, how much better 
if I "turn the other cheek" and allow that to happen.  Now, I _do_ not know
if that is what Christ meant or not.  Surely if I'm in an argument and someone
slaps me across the face to insult or humiliate me, I think it best to take
it.  (Someone mentioned MA training removing 'fear.'  I think that is true
to a certain degree.  I have nothing to fear from this person, I can kick
his/her ass... but to take it anyways.)

(Now, one may argue that it is better to stand up to the mugger and stop
his/her actions so that they do not continue this behavior.  I suppose if 
you executed a 'citizen's arrest' and they went to jail, that might be true,
but otherwise, I doubt you will change their behavior.  Problem is, I don't
ever remember Jesus getting mugged, except by Pontius Pilot and his boys.)

But I think the situation is entirely different if others are involved, whether
it be your family, your wife/husband, girl/boyfriend, etc.  I may be willing
to take a beating, but what about my wife?  There is a lot of Christian 
teaching (this is from _my_ point of view, don't mean to inflict it on any
of you out there) that says I am the head/provider/protector of my family.
Then am I not appointed by God to act to protect her?  (Again, don't mean
to promote a big religious thread here, just presenting my reasoning.)  How
about another case:  I'm driving kids involved in a youth outreach ministry
home from our weekly meeting and one of them is confronted by a gang-banger
as he/she gets out of the car.  Do I drive away?  No!  I have a responsibility
to see that they get into their house safely.  What if he has a gun, and i've
got more kids in the car?  Different thread.  sorry.  Let's assume he starts
harrassing a girl on her way to her front door and I confront him and start
to escort her, verbally trying to defuse the situation (white guy escorting
black girl in black area of town with black guy harassing).  "Hey, c'mon guy,
we don't want any trouble.  Cut me some slack, man, I've got to escort her
to the door."  Well, hopefully you see where I'm coming from.  

If it's just me, that's one thing.  Maybe I take a beating.  (If for Jesus,
great!  though maybe you think i'm nuts.)  But if I'm in a position of 
responsibility for others, that's another thing entirely.  

Hey, if this was long-winded or totally off the thread, flame away!  There's 
got to be some asbestos around here somewhere ;-)

-- 

Steve Camp
(303)971-4379
hobbes@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com