From: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty)
Subject: Kyle 
Originator: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 18:54:18 GMT

kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.X. Saunders ) says:
Subject: Re: Wing Chun in general.


>	If you are doing chi dan sau, single sticky hands, there is wrist and
>some forearm contact.  If you are doing bong-lop rolling, then there is equal
>amounts of wrist and forearm contact.

Well, we were not talking about Chi Sao drills.  The rest of the
part of the message that you conviently cut out, mentioned that
it was being assumed that touch reference at the beginning
of a fight was being talked about.  I.E. two Wu Sau's touching.
Also convienently cut out was the fact that I said the
range of contacts in the various techniques in Wing Chun will in
the palm to elbow range.

>>it's incorrect structure or you should be allready doing
>>something.  But of course this was assuming you were talking
>>about pre-confrontation (no actuall hitting had started
>>yet).  A Tan Sao, Bon Sao, Garn Sao and many of the other defensive
>>blocks are going to make a natural contact in the forearm area.

>	The Tan Sau and Gaun Sau should be blocking with the wrist area, not
>the forearm.

Hardly.  While I will agree that the Gaun/Garn Sao makes a contact
more in the wrist area, the Tan Sao by no means should be in the 
wrist.  If it is then you are doing it at too low a level.
The only time you make any type of wrist contact in a Tan Sao
is in the initial contact, it hits the lower wrist area but
slides down a little as you extend the Tan Sao.  And just
so we get things straight, when I'm talking about the forearm
area, I'm not talking about the meaty area towards the
elbow, I'm talking about the part just before the wrist where
the muscles have tapered down and are going towards the
width of the wrist.  Then again, maybe that's what your
considering the wrist area.  I consider the wrist the
exact area where the hand is able to bend from the
rest of the arm.

>So of the defensive nature in Wing Chun, the contact for "sticking" will
>be more of the forearm area.  As a contact area for the

>	The contact for sticking will be the hands.

Hardly.  The only times your hands are going to make contact are
with the larp/lop sao.  Even a palm strike if you want to include
that.  Most of the contact is going to be in that wrist/forearm
overlap area.

>>Huen Sao.  And you can use it in either direction around the
>>arm, outside in or indside out.  Depends on what you want
>>to accomplish and what the opponent is doing of course.
>>Yah, sounds like your doing a Huen Sao into a larp sao
>>or possibly pak sao.  I LOVE taking apart those overcommitied
>>classical Karate and Kung Fu blocks like that.  Lot's of 
>>fun. ;)

>	Huh?  Huen Sau is used to trap using the back of the hand to create
>a small opening to attack.

Possibly you weren't shown it, but Huen Sau is a generic move used for
disengaging fist, and trapping second.  You need one to do the other.  
That's why Huen Sao is supposed to mean Circling Wrist Block.  The 
rotational movement leads to different areas.  Such as the back of the
hand trap as you explained, or even going into a larp/lop sao as is
often done too.

>	Trade secrets?  Oh please.  You can tell anyone all you want about 
>Wing Chun, but unless they diligently practice every day, it isn't going to do 
>them any good.

Contrary to opinion, information, even text describing information,
even information about theories alone, can be usefull in many
ways.  I've gone thru this with some friends that responded to
this in e-mail and don't feel the need to go into it here.
There are just some things that are privy to people in Wing Chun,
just like there are some things privy to those in Aikido or 
Kali or any other system you want to name.

>	Is this attitude of "I've got something to hide in my Wing Chun" your
>own or that of your school's?

It's got nothing to do with that and frankly I'm amazed at this silly
statement.  If I felt that way, then I wouldn't have even contributed
in the thread and possibly even saved myself the trouble of this conversation
with you that's obviously ready to turn into a flame war.
But it is a general attitude in many martial arts that certain types
of info is reserved for people in the art itself.  That's why
besides the fact of people sometimes not being able to understand the
advanced stuff, when you go to a seminar open to other styles you
will see that certain things will not be explained or certain
material not gone over because it is for people in that art only.
Whether it is anything from a technique, to a theory on how you should
pick your nose.


>- Kyle

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Marty

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