HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bill@snoopy (Bill Poitras)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: ms gave up on os/2?
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:28:16 GMT
Reply-To: bill@msi.com
Distribution: comp
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

"robert fielder" (robert.fielder@canrem.com) wrote:
: Isn't Gates the guy who said the Microsoft would write for OS/2 as
: soon as it sold enough copies?
: 
: I have to wonder why anyone give this guy any credibility....

Being worth 7 Billion on paper, plus the CEO of one of the largest
software companies in the world, the maker of the ever popular MS-Windows
might have something to do with it.  Who cares if his company made a
decision hurt a handful of developers.

--
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Bill Poitras    | Molecular Simulations Inc.    | Tel (408)522-9229       |
| (bill)          | Sunnyvale, CA USA             |                         | 
|                 | FAX (408)732-0831             | bill@msi.com            |
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
From: u1665462@ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: OS/2 at Melbourne PC92 show.
Date: 15 Aug 92 06:33:19 GMT
Organization: The University of Melbourne

OS/2 marketing in Australia...

Melbourne just had its PC92 expo: sort of our Comdex. It runs for 4 days and
everybody is showing off everything...

When you walk in, you saw those huge OS/2 boxes (3m high) piled one on top of
the other. This was the IBM stand. OS/2 was everywhere. On the PS/2s, PS/1s,
laptops and notebooks... with little stickers that said "Thanks a Million: one
million copies of OS/2 sold!"

All the IBM'ers wore OS/2 windcheaters, very casual and non-IBM-like. 
They were selling OS/2 for $A 99 ($US75) as show special, and
they were very busy doing that! As well there were other marketing trivia like 
pens, pins, and even OS/2 umbrellas! Every 1/2 hour they would have an OS/2
presentation, and at the end they would draw a freebie OS/2. I won one myself,
and boy was I happy! There were also two computer booths, one from Lotus and
one from Borland. Lotus was showing beta 123 OS/2 2.0 version, while Borland
did ObjectVison for OS/2 2.0. 

The beauty came if you had technical questions or looked like a serious
customer. They would send you to a "OS/2 Test Drive Centre", a closed-off room
where they had 10 workstations to play with and IBM technical support to answer
questions. The tech-support immiedetly gave me vsvga.sys fix for my Tseng Labs
ET40000 card, and showed few neat tricks using shadows for workgroup
enviroments.

All in all, this was the most impressive bit of IBM mass-marketing I have seen
to date, and it lifted my hopes for OS/2 no end.

I should add that Microsoft were pushing Windows 3.1, but there was no sign nor
mention of NT. Hmmmm...

Now I have OS/2 2.0 running, with several applications in the background, DOS,
Windows and OS/2, a Banyan Vines card in a DOS 5 Virtual session downloading my 
work, while I write this on a modem connection via Kermit to the mainframe...

This is life...

Sven Zagala                                      OOO     SSSS     /  2222
Centre for Soviet and East European Studies,   OO   OO SS        /  2    22
University of Melbourne.                       OO   OO   SSS    /      22
Internet: Zagala@Sov_studs.Unimelb.Edu.Au      OO   00      SS /     22
.                                               OOO     SSSS /     2222222
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: thg@cam-orl.co.uk (Tim Glauert)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: More print ads for IBM and OS/2 stuff
Date: 20 Aug 92 08:35:33 GMT
Organization: Olivetti Research Ltd, Cambridge, England.

In article <1992Aug19.194927.959@njitgw.njit.edu>, dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
|> I wonder how much of the difference is tariffs.  I know that the UK
|> has Value-Added taxes, which can double and tripple the price of
|> things (especially if it's manufactured in the UK).

Umm, not quite. The whole point of a "Value Added Tax" is that a "middle man"
only pays tax on the value he adds to a product. Therefore the total VAT on
any product is fixed (17.5% at the moment) no matter how many hands it goes
through. A manufacturer can reclaim the VAT he pays on his raw materials from
the VAT he collects from selling his product.

BTW, this method of taxation is common across Europe although, at the moment,
the actual rate varies between countries.
Lines: 52
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 07:15:01 MDT
From: earlyd@ee.byu.edu (David Early)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Distribution: world
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA
Subject: MS Gave Up (Was Re: pc week and nt)


In article <1992Aug12.221342.21192@microsoft.com>, petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly) writes:
> In article <n0@byu.edu> earlyd@ee.byu.edu (David Early) writes:
> >
((STUFF DELETED))
> >
> >MS didn't 'give' OS/2 to IBM, MS gave up on OS/2 and IBM picked up the ball.
> >
> >David Early
> >earlyd@wombat.ee.byu.edu
> 
> MS did not give up on OS/2.  MS gave up working with IBM.  It was kind of like
                                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> a divorce settlement.  If MS had kep't OS/2, then IBM wouldn't have given it up.
                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

(Sounds like an 'All or nothing' situation.)

> IBM wanted the "kids" so MS gave IBM responsability for its portion of the 
> development and support for OS/2.  Why are y'all complaining that MS dropped
> you, when in truth, MS said that since MS and IBM couldn't get along any more
                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> IBM's getting the "kid", so you are going to have to go to IBM for your
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> support of OS/2.  
> 
> petesk@microsoft.com
> My Opinions...
> 
> 
You begin by stating MS didn't give up on OS/2, and then proceed to state(IMO)
that MS did give up on OS/2.   What are you talking about?  Has MS come out with any new
OS/2 apps? No.  Are there any plans to?  You'll have to answer that, but I think a new
Windows app will arrive long before any OS/2 version.  I don't believe (no proof here)
that MS plans to fully support OS/2 and in fact plans to combat its success.  Is that what
you call 'not giving up'? 



Look, to be honest, I don't care if MS gives up on OS/2.  Competition is good, as has
been stated here before, but it seems to me you are trying to make it look like MS
came out of the 'divorce' clean as a whistle (no fault) and that IBM is the slimey spouse.

The complaint that MS dropped OS/2 is not a complaint about support or where 
we can get it.  It has been used as an illustration of MS's (un)reliability in sticking 
with their declared direction.  

And incidentally, in your'divorce', you gave up the 'kid' very quickly.  I'm not sure
you ever cared about the poor sun-of-a-gun very much.  ;^)

Dave Early
earlyd@wombat.ee.byu.edu
From: bab@se39.wg2.waii.com (Brian Button)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: HAPPY 1,000,000th Copy!!!
Date: 13 Aug 92 13:04:08 GMT
Organization: Western Geophysical Exploration Products

I heard something great on the radio on the way in to work this
morning.

The announcer said IBM had announced delivery of 1,000,000 copies of
OS/2 to the hands of the end-users. He went on to say that this figure
is frequently used by software companies as the trigger to get them
developing applications for a specific platform.

CONGRATULATIONS IBM!

bab -  I guess this makes me 1 in a million :)
--
|-----------------------|----------------------------------------------------|
| Brian Button          | email : button@wg2.waii.com                        |
| Design Engineer       |         bab@buster.stafford.tx.us                  |
| Western Geophysical   | voice : (713)964-6221                              |
| 3600 Briarpark        |                                                    |
| Houston, Texas  77042 |                                                    |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: ekl@fics.uucp
Subject: Re: MS Gave Up (Was Re: pc week and nt)
Organization: Kvam data as
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 23:30:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.013406.22269@microsoft.com> petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.131240.15526@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> dab6@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas A. Bell) writes:
>>
>>So what actually did happen?
>
>Would you believe me if I told you? ;)

Try me!

>
>petesk@microsoft.com
>My Opinions...
>
>

Eirik
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara)
Subject: Re: Number of users etc.
Date: 16 Aug 92 00:57:15 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Aug14.105922.13684@actrix.gen.nz> Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.235913.22546@hellgate.utah.edu> brian%jaguar.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Brian Sturgill) writes:
>> >And last but not least, is the number of NT betatesters (prerelease
>> >users) known? 
>> Microsoft just announced that 10,000 pre-release SDK's have been shipped.
>
>Do they send these to people who plan to use them? Or do they just pump them
>out to a mailing list? I get all sorts of guff coming across my desk from
>vendors trying to get me on board with respect to their products.....
> 

      You actually have to fork over money for the SDK - I'm not aware
of anyone receiving copies for free, or being sent unsolicited copies. 
I would estimate that a reasonable percentage of those SDK copies went
to people who are either considering or committed to developing
applications for NT.  And, of course, some of them went to people who
just wanted to take a look.  But I would also venture to say that very,
very few of those 10,000 could be described as "shelfware."

					-Phil
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Lafornara         				1 Microsoft Way         
philipla@microsoft.com				Redmond, WA 98052-6399 
Note:  Microsoft doesn't even _know_ that these are my opinions. So there.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara)
Subject: Re: "My Opinions"
Date: 16 Aug 92 01:08:59 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Aug14.202558.6912@novell.com> chris@cad.gatech.edu (Chris McClellen) writes:
>
>Just curious.  I see the Microsoft employees saying everything they say
>is their opinions.
>
>I wonder if thats truly the case.  I wonder what would happen to
>an MS employeee if they posted on the net something like
>
>"NT Sucks rocks!  This alpha version reaks!"

Probably several things:

    1)  A wave of posts from other Microsoft employees disclaiming
	the original post. (We get to go first because we would
	see the article first.  So there.)
    2)  A wave of posts from OS/2 advocates saying "Look!  I told
	you so!  Finally a robot has broken free from the control
	of the great Microsoft mass-mind!"
    3)  A second wave of posts from other Microsoft employees flaming
	the OS/2 advocates.
    4)  A wave of posts from the OS/2 advocates flaming the Microsoft
	employees.
    5)  Goto 3.

    So, as you can see, things wouldn't be much different.


>(same thing that would happen to IBM employees if they said
>"OS2 is lame")

     Naw - IBM employees would be hanged by their neckties.


>Im just stating this as some posts seem to be trying to get petesk, etc
>to say something to this effect.  Folks, even if NT sucked
>(which I don't believe, even though UI dont want to use it) you'll
>never get them to admit it.

      If NT sucked, I could be persuaded to admit it, and I wouldn't
fear retribution by higher management.  I don't believe that it sucks
at the moment.  Ask me again when it ships.

					-Phil

P.S.  Scatter smileys about this post at your leisure.  Except for
	my last paragraph - that one was for real.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Lafornara         				1 Microsoft Way         
philipla@microsoft.com				Redmond, WA 98052-6399 
Note:  Microsoft doesn't even _know_ that these are my opinions. So there.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: stsshol@st.unocal.COM (Herb Lam)
Subject: Re: NT goes "late Beta" in 8 weeks! (was Re: Windows NT 'Alpha')
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:54:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.115026.10843@actrix.gen.nz> Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes:
>I read in Clari news tonight that MS says that NT is ontrack for a late '92
>delivery and that it will be going into late beta testing at the end of
>September/October..........

Do you really believe what MS is saying?  I think I read in PC Week that
they are going for a 3 month beta testing cycle.  To me, that seems very
unrealistic given the complexity of NT.  This is an OS that will be around
100 megabytes.  It includes multitasking, networking, gui, ability to run
on different machines/processors, etc.  You name it, everything including
the kitchen sink is in there.  Look how long it took MS to get Windows 3.1
out the door.  Look how long it took Sun to get Solaris out (didn't they
help develop SVr4?).  How about NextStep?  The last two are probably as
complicated as NT.  Plus, the last two companies, Sun and Next, have much
more experience since they are evolving the OS rather than building one
from the ground up.  There is no way they will be able to test everything
and debug and fix half the bugs and get it out by December.  If they do,
then MS deserves to dominate the software world.

Remember, NT is a brand new OS.  We've been hearing from people on the net
and elsewhere saying how good or how stable the pre-beta NT is.  Didn't we
hear the same thing about OS/2?  Then what happened after it was released--
now you have people criticizing it left and right for taking too much 
hardware, running too slow, not enough support, etc.  Since I don't have
the pre-beta NT, I have to take everything I read about how good it is
right now with a big grain of salt.

I'm not going to say MS can't get NT out by December, but I would bet that
if they did, users will run into 10x the problem they have now with OS/2.

>Looks like a counter to the IBM/OS2 ad campaign, to me.

I think all this talk about NT being released this year is just a ploy
to make people or corporations wait and not buy OS/2.  They'll say, OS/2 
is here now, but NT is coming soon, maybe we should wait until NT is out 
before we decide which one is better for our company.  MS is afraid of
OS/2.  They know that if and when OS/2 2.1 comes out and fixes and improves
upon what it is now, NT will have a war on its hand.

>Steve
>-- 
>Steve Withers - Wellington, New Zealand | If you don't vote for MMP on 
>Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz         |  September 19, 1992, then you 
>withers_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz            |  must like things the way they 
>**** Happy user of OS/2 v2!! ****       |  are.....can I live with YOU?

Just a few thoughts,

	Herb
Xref: sparky comp.os.os2.advocacy:3958 comp.os.os2.misc:27380
From: nevries@accucx.cc.ruu.nl (Nico E de Vries)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: I've seen NT......and I'll take OS/2 2.0 thanks!
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:10:09 GMT
Followup-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Organization: Academic Computer Centre Utrecht

In <alcocer.713723324@nestea> alcocer@parc.xerox.com (Dario Alcocer) writes:

>What would make it better, at least for developers IMHO, is to
>have OS/2 2.0 support Windows 386 Enhanced mode programs.  That
>way, you could enjoy the OS/2 environment while coding, building
>and debugging Windows 386Enh mode apps.  After all, almost all

True but probably VERY hard to do. With the upcoming (or already
release?) Windows porter recompilation might be easier than emulating.

>of my users are running Windows 386 in 386Enh mode.

Yes but are they running 386Enh specific programs ? Mostly their programs 
don't need that mode (exept usefull DOS boxes).

>Dario Alcocer      | Internet: alcocer@adoc.xerox.com
>Xerox Corporation  | Tel     : +1 415 813-6869


Nico E. de Vries
_ _
O O  USENET nevries@cc.ruu.nl  FIDO 2:281/708.1  COMPUSERVE "soon" ???? 
 o   This text reflects MY opinions, not that of my employer BITECH.      
\_/  This text is supplied 'AS IS', no waranties of any kind apply.      
     Don't waste your time on complaining about my hopeless typostyle.

"I would admit my mistakes, if I had any ..."  (Bumper Sticker)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: craigdo@microsoft.com (Craig Dowell)
Subject: Re: Distributed Systems
Date: 11 Aug 92 19:23:54 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Aug11.044425.10498@midway.uchicago.edu> soh3@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

[...]

>Archaic?  Stone age?  You seem to be out of touch with the state of the
>art yourself.  Have you heard of X-terminals?  You just plug the
>high resolution terminal into one of your TCP/IP node and then you
>can use X-Window based programs on the *true* multi-user unix machine.
>I thought this was a real nice way to go.
>
>Can you please tell me how NT will handle these X-Windows terminals if
>at all?

X-terminals?  State of the art?  The way to go?

I look at these as VT-100s with a GUI.  I would much rather have some
computational power local to my desktop than have to deal with load factors
of 50 on a central server.

The world seems to be moving towards distributed systems, and X-terminals
seem to be moving back toward centralized time-sharing systems.  The reason
is, of course, cost.  X-terminals are cheap, central servers give more bang
for the buck (don't have to duplicate power supplies, etc).

NT would handle these by having a server dispatch connection requests.
Just like those "*true* multi-user Unix machines," I suppose.

-- Craig
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: richk@grebyn.com (Richard Krehbiel)
Subject: Re: superVGA  (and misc top-blowing)
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 23:31:15 GMT

In article <SXMRP.13.0@orca.alaska.edu> SXMRP@orca.alaska.edu (Michael R. Platzke) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.080540.17580@actrix.gen.nz> Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes:
>>In article <1992Aug12.125401.18428@hellgate.utah.edu> brian%jensen.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Brian Sturgill) writes:
>>> 
>>> beta.  Borland said at the NT developers conference that they will
>>> have the NT version out within 2 months of NT's release.
>
>>That should sometime in September next year then......go on! Hold your breath!
>> 
>Come on, every indication is that NT will be available in early 93.

..except a serious evaluation of the current state of NT, as expressed
by the actual preliminary SDK itself, plus some of the comments I've
heard from MS folk here and in the MS newsgroups.  (For example, not
long ago an MS person talked about how the security features of NT
weren't in place yet.)

>Or maybe
>they could release a beta version in December of 92 without DOS or Windows
>16 or OS/2 1.3 support and just sell it as an LA release.

I suspect the NT beta program will be so open that no one will
consider NT "unavailable".
-- 
Richard Krehbiel                                 richk@grebyn.com
OS/2 2.0 will do for me until AmigaDOS for the 386 comes along...
From: sjb5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (STACY JOHN BEHRENS)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: pc week and nt
Date: 14 Aug 92 01:25:25 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Aug12.221342.21192@microsoft.com>, petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Sk
elly) writes:
>In article <n0@byu.edu> earlyd@ee.byu.edu (David Early) writes:
>>
>>
>>I doubt that Topview evolved into windows, and IBM probably didn't hand it ove
r
>>to MS.  Topview (in my understanding) was an IBM product, developed solo
>>with no help from Redmond.  OS/2 on the other hand was a joint venture.  In th
e
>>last line of your post you make OS/2 sound like MS's baby.
>>
>>MS didn't 'give' OS/2 to IBM, MS gave up on OS/2 and IBM picked up the ball.
>>
>>David Early
>>earlyd@wombat.ee.byu.edu
>
>MS did not give up on OS/2.  MS gave up working with IBM.  It was kind of like
>a divorce settlement.  If MS had kep't OS/2, then IBM wouldn't have given it up
.
>IBM wanted the "kids" so MS gave IBM responsability for its portion of the
>development and support for OS/2.  Why are y'all complaining that MS dropped
>you, when in truth, MS said that since MS and IBM couldn't get along any more
>IBM's getting the "kid", so you are going to have to go to IBM for your
>support of OS/2.
>
>petesk@microsoft.com
>My Opinions...
>

Nice deflection, but inconsistant with the facts.  MS realized that the
current version (1.x) was not going to sell very well, so they dropped it.  It
was a very easy to understand decision.  They went where the profit was at the
time (and so far still is).  Can you tell me with a straight face that MS
would have continued work on OS/2 instead of going the direction they have?  I
don't think so.  From all appearances, MS would have been happy to let OS/2
die, and is somewhat perturbed that is has turned out to be their biggest
competitor for Windows.

                                            Stacy John Behrens
                                            *===)-------------

                                            
Xref: sparky comp.os.os2.advocacy:4315 comp.os.os2.misc:27863
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: I've seen NT......and I'll take OS/2 2.0 thanks!
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:13:10 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <19AUG199215292756@vmsa.is.csupomona.edu> cvadrtbc@vmsa.is.csupomona.edu (Srikanth Viswanathan) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.114009.20723@actrix.gen.nz>, Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes...
>>In article <18AUG199210153123@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu> cvadrtbc@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu (Srikanth Viswanathan) writes:
>>> 
>>> What is IOPL?  I know it's a setting in the CONFIG.SYS but what does it do?
>>> What are the performance implications if I set it to no or yes?  Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Srikanth
>> 
>>Try typing "help iopl" at an OS/2 command prompt..........ain't os/2 great?
>
>Ok, how do I install the help so that I can type HELP IOPL? ;)  Thanks
>to the many people who replied it!  

Use the selective install utility.  Install the on-line documentation.
(If you're not extremely familiar with OS/2, you should have installed
this in the first place, IMO).



-- 
   |)  David Charlap           "I don't even represent myself
  /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu   sometimes so NJIT is right out!.
 ((|,)
  ~|~  Hi! I am a .signature virus, copy me into your .signature file.
Xref: sparky comp.os.os2.advocacy:3981 comp.os.os2.misc:27404