HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tutui@silk.imel.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Takashi &)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.admin
Subject: Can I use DAT adrive 5GB (SE 2000) for Sun?
Date: 10 Apr 92 16:24:45 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: Dept. of Medical Informatics, KYOTO Univ. Hospital, KYOTO, Japan.

Hi-.

 DAT adrive 5GB (Model SE 2000) is soled as Mac peripheral to use
with Retrospect 1.3 at the Mac shop "Third Wave". At the price $1595.
 There are (I hear) two types of DATs in the market.

 And I hear >=5GB DAT will be available in future ???
 And I am in trouble with the model id 1300 and 2000.

 I wonder if it were the bare capacity and if compressed the 1300's -> 2000MB
2000-> 5000MB ?
 I saw a AD. of "Relax" which says Archive DAT 4320NT(tape Vista) works fine
with SUN's. but its capacity is 1300-2000. That is soled as $1320.
 I want to make a better purchase for my SparcStation, because
exabytes are high priced and seems to have of several troubles.

My question is:

1	I prefer Bigger storage .
2	Compatible with SUN generic driver ?
3	Can the drive be used as filesystem (both streamer and
block type device) to make simulated MSS storage (5GB file system)?
4	Is 5GB dat available?

Thanks in Advance or post it!
--
TAKASHI Tsutsui M.D.		tutui@silk.imel.kyoto-u.ac.jp
Dept. of Medical Informatics Hospital of KYOTO Univ.
SAKYO-ku KYOTO JAPAN	Zip 606		Phone +81-75-751-3647
  (automaticaly switched to the fax)	Fax   +81-75-751-3647
From: bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Re: disc `clunks' & errors
Date: 15 Apr 92 10:11:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: chaos.bill.703332679
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.

ron@mlfarm.com (Ronald Florence) writes:

>Sporadially (perhaps once every 3 weeks), the 669 mb. disc on our Sun
>3/80, running Sunos 4.1.1, emits a `clunk' sound, like the sound when
>the power is shut down to the disc, followed by a cascade of SCSI
>errors.  The errors generally include a syslog failure, sometimes
>accompanied by the death of the xterm console window or by a switch of
>the console to the default Sun 34x80 screen.  The system is attached
>to a UPS.  The errors have all happened at night or in the early
>morning; the only correlation that comes to mind is that the
>temperature in the room is low.  There seems to be no permanent damage
>to file systems after one of these episodes.

>Do the symptoms indicate terminal problems with the disc?  Would
>backing up everything and reformatting the disc help?  If the disc is
>on its last leg, I'd welcome recommendations for brands and suppliers
>for a reliable 669mb or 1gb disc.  Thanks in advance for advice and
>suggestions.

hmmmmm. sounds like the heads are unloading, ummm ... lots of errors
sounds like the disk has decided to go to sleep. one thing you can 
verify is: what do the +5 and +-12 volt mains look like?
the supply could be going bad causing the drive to panic (thinking
possibly correctly) that it was losing power, ergo to save the surfaces
i'll just unload the heads and power down. to determin this you will need
to know what the pwr sup is doing at that time.

--
bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu
From: kohjin@marina.prug.or.jp (Kohjin Yamada JR1EDE)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Re: Help for 3rd vendors CDROM
Keywords: Sun CDROM drive
Date: 17 Apr 92 13:31:03 GMT
Organization: I am alone...

In article <4848@umriscc.isc.umr.edu> johns@mcs213h.cs.umr.edu (John Stone) writes:

>I say again, booting off of the CD-Rom is not important to me, I do have
>the tape drive for that purpose (albeit slow..)

I know you don't need any CDROM to boot off your Sun3/140 now but when you
upgrade to Sun4/*, you will need one.
I hope my understand is correct.

	Kohjin

-- 
      *---/---*         E-mail: {uunet}!reseau!sting!jh1ynw!marina!kohjin
    *----/----*         CIS: Kohjin Yamada, JR1EDE [76662,111]
  Q-----T------H        AMPR: kohjin@jr1ede.marina.ampr [44.129.20.128]
*------/|-------*       PBBS: JR1EDE@JR1EDE.11.JNET1.JPN.AS "Share and Enjoy!"
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: brad@island.COM (Bradley Mabe)
Subject: Re: Sparcstation ELC cpu in a Sparcstation SLC chassis
Organization: Island Graphics Corp.
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 15:01:49 GMT

jwt@duke.cs.duke.edu (Jeffrey W. Tannehill) writes:


>	We have some Sparcstation SLC's (Sun 4/20) and some newer 
>Sparcstation ELC's (Sun 4/25). When a monitor failed on an ELC
>we wondered if there would be any problem with putting the ELC cpu
>in the monitor/powersupply chassis of a spare SLC.  Has anyone tried
>this or is there any reason why the cpu's cannot be placed in either style
>monitor? 

>-- 
>/*______________________________Jeff Tannehill_______________________________*
> * MAIL:  Duke Dept. of Computer Science        Internet: jwt@cs.duke.edu    *
> *        Durham, NC 27708 USA                  PHONE: +1 919 660 6500       */


When ordering an slc -> elc upgrade, sun ships you an elc board which
is installed in place of the slc board in the chassis.  There should
be no problem doing what you describe.

   				Bradley Mabe 
   			    Island Graphics Corp.
                              brad@island.com

                     Disclaimer: It's not Islands fault.
From: rolf@davinci.ucsd.edu (Rolf Schreiber)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: SUMMARY: No GX on IPC?
Keywords: It works
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:26:38 GMT
Reply-To: rolf@davinci.ucsd.edu (Rolf Schreiber)
Organization: U.C. San Diego, AMES Department

As I suspected, the reason the GX (cg6) frame buffer is not available as an
upgrade for an IPC is for business reasons, not technical reasons. I heard 
from many people who were currently using the GX board with no problems in
their IPC systems. I also heard from Sun and was told that the GX could be
ordered directly from Sun Express (P/N 501-1672 $2,200 Category A discount).

Many thanks to all those who responded. Now that I know I can use a GX in
my IPC, all I have to do is talk my boss into buying one for me. :-)

---
Rolf Schreiber                              Internet:rolf@ames.ucsd.edu
Applied Mechanics and Engineering Sciences  UUCP: ...!ucsd!rolf
University of California at San Diego       Voice: (619)534-5414
From: lupe@ukw.uucp (Lupe Christoph)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Re: dd/Exabyte weirdness
Keywords: exabyte dd
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:50:23 GMT
Organization: cic

john@aplcomm.JHUAPL.EDU (John Hayes) writes:

>Hello,

>I am trying to connect an Exabyte tape drive to an embedded computer
>via SCSI bus.  To learn how to control the tape with SCSI commands
>I hooked a SCSI bus analyzer between our Sun3 and its Exabyte.
>I used dd with several different block sizes to write a tape; 
>there were no surprises.  But when I use block sizes greater than or
>equal to 64k, something interesting happens.  For example,
>	dd obs=64k of=/dev/rst1
>produces a block of 65534 (64k - 2) bytes followed by a 2 byte block,
>followed by a 65534 byte block, etc.  If I do
>	dd obs=128k of=/dev/rst1
>two 65534 bytes blocks are produced followed by a 4 byte block, etc.

>Can anyone explain this to me?

The DMA controller you have uses a 16 bit counter register. This limits
one transfer to 64 KBytes (65536). It also is not capable of using a
value of zero as meaning the full count. This leaves you at 65535
at most. And that controller is word-oriented (I believe, it's been
a long time). So you must round down to the next lower even count, 65534.

It is debatable if it wouldn't be better to halve the transfer count,
but that's the way it was done.
-- 
| ...!unido!ukw!lupe  (German EUNet, "bang")     |  Disclaimer:            |
| lupe@ukw.UUCP       (German EUNet, domain)     |  As I am self-employed, |
| suninfo!alanya!lupe (Sun Germany)              |  this *is* the opinion  |
| Res non sunt complicanda praeter necessitatem. |  of my employer.        |
From: lupe@ukw.uucp (Lupe Christoph)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Re: SS1 memory expansion
Keywords: memory, SS1
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:44:20 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: cic

nicolai@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Nicolai Leymann) writes:

>We have a SPARCStation 1 with 8 Meg RAM and a 32 Meg memory expansion.
>How can I add the memory expansion to the Workstation ? (I think, I 
>have to remove the 8 Megs). I heard different answers from different
>persons, like "No problem, just remove the old memory and plug in the new"
>or "Oooh, it's the best to call your local SUN dealer".

Depends if you have just the SIMMs or an SBus board. In order to plug
in an SBus board you have to remove the small metal plate that fills
the hole for the backplate by squeezing the two angled metal pieces
protruding from it. The SBus card is plugged in by first putting the
top of the backplate in places and then lowering the connector end
until the connector is seated.

If you have the SIMMs, you will probably have 8 SIMMs, 4 MByte each.
an SS1 with 8 MByte uses 8 SIMMs, 1 MByte each. As the SS1 has
four banks of memory, you should have two banks free. If you don't know
how to mount SIMMs, get some help, preferably an anti-static
environment, too. I've frequently inserted and removed SIMMs
and other electronics without this, but only after making sure
I don't carry statics with me. Do the same at your own risk.

BTW, at least the newer manual kit has instructions for inserting
SIMMs in the installation manual (the small one, about A5 in size).
-- 
| ...!unido!ukw!lupe  (German EUNet, "bang")     |  Disclaimer:            |
| lupe@ukw.UUCP       (German EUNet, domain)     |  As I am self-employed, |
| suninfo!alanya!lupe (Sun Germany)              |  this *is* the opinion  |
| Res non sunt complicanda praeter necessitatem. |  of my employer.        |
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: brad@island.COM (Bradley Mabe)
Subject: Re: powersupply SLC
Organization: Island Graphics Corp.
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 14:25:21 GMT

wj@tweety.informatik.uni-dortmund.de (Winfried Jansen) writes:


>-- 
>Hi there,

>we have got a defective 4/20 SLC power-supply.

>What we need is a power-transistor. It`s named with 1202-01 from SGS-Thomson.
>There is nothing else written on it.

>Does anyone know, where we coud get this part or an equivalent transistor?

>  Winfried Jansen             wj@irb.informatik.uni-dortmund.de
>  Univ. Dortmund, IRB         wj@unido.uucp, wj@unido.bitnet
>  Postfach 500500             Tel.: +49 231 755-2647
>  D-4600 Dortmund 50          Fax : +49 231 755-2386

That's interesting.  Recently we have had 2 slc systems that have
gone down with bad power supplies, one of which was diagnosed as
needing the same transistor you mention.  Our repair shop was 
unable to locate a replacement, so I would be interested in knowing
where such a thing can be found as well.


 Bradley Mabe 
 Island Graphics Corp.
 brad@island.com
 Disclaimer: It isn't Islands fault.
From: rolf@davinci.ucsd.edu (Rolf Schreiber)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: No GX for SPARCstation IPC?
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:48:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: deadmin.1612
Reply-To: rolf@davinci.ucsd.edu (Rolf Schreiber)
Organization: U.C. San Diego, AMES Department

After poking around in the upgrades section of the latest Sun price list,
I noticed that you can't get a GX upgrade for a SPARCstation IPC. Why is
this? The IPC has two S-bus slots and can be upgraded to 48Mb memory.
Is the single slot GX too much of a power hog for the IPC?

---
Rolf Schreiber                              Internet:rolf@ames.ucsd.edu
Applied Mechanics and Engineering Sciences  UUCP: ...!ucsd!rolf
University of California at San Diego       Voice: (619)534-5414
From: davidsen@yeti.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Re: disc `clunks' & errors
Date: 16 Apr 92 14:12:20 GMT
Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady NY

In article <1992Apr13.143340.692@mlfarm.com>, ron@mlfarm.com (Ronald Florence) writes:
|  Sporadially (perhaps once every 3 weeks), the 669 mb. disc on our Sun
|  3/80, running Sunos 4.1.1, emits a `clunk' sound, like the sound when
|  the power is shut down to the disc, followed by a cascade of SCSI
|  errors.  The errors generally include a syslog failure, sometimes

|  Do the symptoms indicate terminal problems with the disc?  Would
|  backing up everything and reformatting the disc help?  If the disc is
|  on its last leg, I'd welcome recommendations for brands and suppliers
|  for a reliable 669mb or 1gb disc.  Thanks in advance for advice and
|  suggestions.

  I would monitor the power going to the disk, first. The clunk is
usually a mechanical thing kicking in to park the heads using the
rotational inertia of the platters. You could be lucky and find you just
have a (pick one) loose cable, bad power supply, or other power problem.

  I just got a Fujitsu, haven't had a chance to see how well I like it,
just in service at 0120 today. I actually tried to get a Seagate
ST41766N, because we have used 20-30 of them in applications which ship
systems all over the world, and have gotten satisfactory (ie perfect)
reliability. However, no one had a drive in stock, and I got the Fujitsu
for the same price and 5 year warranty, so I'm trying it.

  Micropolous has a new HH in that size, for about $100 more, but
they've only been on the market (the model, not micropolous) for about 6
months, so I'll pass.
-- 
	- bill davidsen (davidsen@crd.ge.com)
	GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
By analysis of usenet source, the hardest part of C to use is the comment
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: laz@cheetah.ece.clarkson.edu (Matt Parker - N2MGI)
Subject: Re: Sun-2/120 Diag Mode
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 17:18:23 GMT

From article <JIVE.92Apr6140314@spanky.ssc.gov>, by jive@spanky.ssc.gov (Jim Ivey):
> 
>      Hello everyone.  I need a little help with my 2/120.  My monitor died
> recently, and I would like to connect a terminal up to the serial port to
> use the computer.  Unfortunately, I can't figure out how to get this thing
> into diagnostic mode.  I thought this was necessary to run off the serial
> port.
> 
Nope, simpally pull your Viedo/Keyboard card out of the multibus cage,
and the Sun 2/120 will default to ttya at 9600 baud, 7 databits.

good Luck,
Matt
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.wanted,alt.folklore.computers,misc.wanted
From: wargopl@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Peter L. Wargo)
Subject: The Parity Error from Hell.  URK!
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 22:21:06 GMT

I think I've been driven around the bend.  For a month or so now, I've
been trying to install SunOS 4.0.3 on my Sun 2/120.

The usual problem was this - at a random point, I would get the
following error:

Parity Error! Bus Error Reg 81<VALID,LPARERR>
...pause...
Can't find Parity Error (transient?)
panic: parity error

Following this, it dumps to disk and reboots.

Trying to track down this problem, I have swapped out every part of the
computer- from the CPU to the XYLOGICS board.  I've even swapped out the
Card Cage, Power Supply, and anything else I could think of.  Basically,
It is no longer the 2/120 I started with.

I finally got one good install, but it has now died in a horrible way
while I was running sunview.

I can't re-install any more -- I'll die of terminal "tape wait"...
(BTW, I even tried totally different disks - SCSI and SMD... no luck...)

On top of that, my monitor is reversed - I hate white on black...

This has been a nasty month.  If you have *any* ideas, I would be more
than grateful.  I would probably name kids after you.

-Pete

--
----------
Peter L. Wargo        | wargopl@sun.soe.clarkson.edu | "In other words...
Documentation         |                              |  R.T.F.M..."
Enable Software, Inc. | GEnie mail: PSYCLOPS         |
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: rich@island.COM (Rich Fanning)
Subject: Re: New viking sparc processor?
Organization: Island Graphics Corp.
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 20:11:01 GMT

tse@ra.nrl.navy.mil (Anthony Tse) writes:
>In article <404@idtg.UUCP> dow@idtg.UUCP (Keith Dow) writes:
>-I believe the Sparcstation-2 is 27Specmarks.  If the 486 puts out 16Specs
>-at 33Mhz, doesn't it put out 25Spec at 50Mhz?  Perhaps you can clarify
>-the issue.  Maybe Intel isn't that far away now? 

Based on my experience, a 486/50 can come quite close to a Sparc-2 when
executing certain CPU-intensive tasks.  For example, using the Independent
JPEG group's software, version 3.0, the time to compress and decompress
a 600 x 800 pixel image is:

		SS2	486/50

	cjpeg	6.8	7.7	seconds
	djpeg	6.0	7.5

These times are user CPU seconds, not elapsed time.  This software does not
use much, if any, floating point math, so these times reflect "integer"
performance.

>--(All through, of course, remember that both ISA and EISA are terrible
>--on IO, not something which comes into SPEC).

Yes.  For example, here are the maximum transfer rates I was able to get.
SS2 has an internal 200 MB SCSI drive, 486 a Conner 200MB IDE drive:

					SS2		486
	read from memory cache		14.3		3.8	MB/sec
	read from disk			 1.5		0.50
	write to disk			 1.3		0.18

The 486 is an ISA bus machine, and the best times were obtained with a
disk cache. (I like Norton's NCACHE best.) As you can see, read performance
is fair (though no match for the Sun) but write performance really
sucks.

>I don't care how fast the 586 is, PC will still be a piece of sh*t unless
>they do something about their bus.

For some uses, yes.  Any application which requires frequent reads or writes
which could not be adequately compensated by a disk cache is going to be slow.

For others, such as the JPEG software above, the 486 comes awfully close,
and at a *much* smaller price.  There's a strange imbalance when a CPU with
this much power is shackled by such a poor bus and operating system.

I'd be curious to see what kind of maximum transfer rates could be obtained
from a system with a fast SCSI disk and EISA bus.

-- 

     Rich Fanning       {sun,uunet}!island!rich
			    rich@island.COM
From: kohjin@marina.prug.or.jp (Kohjin Yamada JR1EDE)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Help for 3rd vendors CDROM
Date: 12 Apr 92 21:12:52 GMT
Organization: I am alone...

Hello all,

There're a lot of CDROM Ad. in magazine.
For example;
	Sony CDU 7211 - 300ms True SCSI BUS external.
	These are not so expensive as Sun's original.

I wonder if I can use it for Sun?
If not, does anyone know the other brand?

Thank you for reading,
	Kohjin
-- 
      *---/---*         CIS:  Kohjin Yamada, JR1EDE [76662,111] 
    *----/----*         UUCP: {...UUNET}!reseau!sting!jh1ynw!marina!kohjin
  Q-----T------H        AMPR: kohjin@jr1ede.marina.ampr [44.129.20.128]
*------/|-------*       PBBS: JR1EDE@JR1EDE.11.JNET1.JPN.AS "Share and Enjoy!"
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: ghh@clarity.Princeton.EDU (Gilbert Harman)
Subject: Cleaning the screen on a sun monitor
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University Cognitive Science Lab
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 00:09:58 GMT

Is there any reason not to use windex to clean the screen of a sun monitor?

--

	Gilbert Harman, Princeton University Cognitive Science Lab
	221 Nassau Street, Princeton, NJ 08542
	ghh@clarity.princeton.edu
From: wcs@cbnewsh.ATT.COM (Bill Stewart 908-949-0705 erebus.att.com!wcs)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Re: Will SunOS 4.1.1 handle Fujitsu 2.0 Gb drive?
Date: 17 Apr 92 02:10:36 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs Random Organization Name Generator

In article <1992Apr2.181105.11366@cichlid.com> aab@cichlid.com (Andy Burgess) writes:
>   I recall all the discussion about SunOS not handling a 1.2 Gb drive
>   and I believe the solution was to use only part of the drive.
>   I don't recall discussion about larger drives.
>   Will SunOS (and what version) work with this drive?

I don't know whether SunOS will support that drive, but the >1GB drive
problem was fixed by a patch-CD for SunOS 4.1.1 and is fixed in 4.1.2.
If you're stuck with pre-4.1.1, you've got to upgrade the OS.
-- 
				Pray for peace;      Bill
#Bill Stewart +1-908-949-0705 erebus.att.com!wcs AT&T Bell Labs 4M312 Holmdel NJ
# My *other* computer is a Sun 2/50!  
#    (New dinosaur owner looking for software, advice, etc.)
From: billd@fps.com (Bill Davidson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Format parameters for a Siemens Megafile Model 1300?
Date: 10 Apr 92 06:42:27 GMT
Organization: Cray Research Superservers Inc., San Diego CA, USA

For those of you that saw my question about Emulex controllers earlier
today, I wish to give public thanks to matthew@sunpix.East.Sun.COM for
the answer, a couple of hours or so after I posted.

Now I've got another inheritance without documentation problem with one
of these shoeboxes.  One has a Siemens Megafile Model 1300 and whoever
formated it before, formated it for 1160 cylinders yet the flaw map
that was attached to the disk claims flaws in cylinder 1208.
Unfortunately, the Sun 4.0.3 format program knows nothing about this
drive so I have to enter parameters by hand.  Can someone please send
me the number of cylinders, alternates, heads, sectors and rpm's for
this drive?

--Bill Davidson
From: thad@public.BTR.COM (Thaddeus P. Floryan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Re: dd/Exabyte weirdness
Keywords: exabyte dd
Date: 7 Apr 92 05:35:13 GMT
Organization: BTR Public Access UNIX, Mountain View CA

In article <898@aplcomm.JHUAPL.EDU> john@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu (John Hayes) writes:
|[...]
|there were no surprises.  But when I use block sizes greater than or
|equal to 64k, something interesting happens.  For example,
|	dd obs=64k of=/dev/rst1
|produces a block of 65534 (64k - 2) bytes followed by a 2 byte block,
|followed by a 65534 byte block, etc.  If I do
|	dd obs=128k of=/dev/rst1
|two 65534 bytes blocks are produced followed by a 4 byte block, etc.
|
|Can anyone explain this to me?

You can read all about it per "man mtio".  The 65534 is clearly documented
for 1/2" and 8mm tape drives as a "feature" of the device driver for handling
variable-length I/O operations.

Thad Floryan [ thad@btr.com (OR) {decwrl, mips, fernwood}!btr!thad ]
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Overhead display of Sparc II screens
From: M.W.Stern@massey.ac.nz (M.W. Stern)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 12:42:09 GMT
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c

Hi,

I am looking for product that will allow me to display SUN Sparc2 screens
on an overhead projector, preferably in color.

I believe there are two options:

1) Purchase an overhead projector displayer that runs directly off the
   SUN using whatever the standard SUN video display is. I have been informed
   that these cost NZ$30000 - NZ$50000. 

2) Purchase a SBUS VGA card that will produce standard VGA that I can run
   through the existing VGA overhead projecter displayer I have at my
   disposal.

Any ideas and advice welcome, especially regarding a cheaper option 1).

Thanks in advance

==============================================================================
Mark Stern,             | "There are holes in the sky,
Massey University       |  where the rain gets in,
NEW ZEALAND             |  but they're ever so small,
                        |  that's why rain is thin"
Internet:               |  ...
M.W.Stern@massey.ac.nz  |     Spike Milligan
==============================================================================