Newsgroups: bit.listserv.csg-l
Date:         Sat, 21 Nov 1992 09:52:29 MST
From:         Ed Ford <ATEDF@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Using Standards

from Ed Ford (921121:0953)

I said on (921116)

>Any time I deal with anyone, whether in private practice or elsewhere,
standards and rules are a part of his life.

Rick Marken (921116.900)

>I just don't get it, Ed. What does "teaching standards" have to do
>with the PCT based view of human nature?  What I get from PCT is the
>idea that nothing could be less important -- the actual substance of a
>persons references for relationships, program categories, principles,
>"standards", etc matters only in terms of how these satisfy higher
>level goals.  The system should just be error free -- and this happens
>by having working (conflict free) control systems....

I am not teaching standards, but the intelligent evaluation and use of
the ones people create for themselves.  Or, I am trying to help people
deal with the standards in the environment in which they find
themselves to satisfy their own goals.  An example would be helping a
person to think through the best way to satisfy the goal of getting
released from a lock up facility within the reality of his/her present
environment.  When trying to help others achieve or satisfy "these
higher level goals" that you suggest, how do you think a person does
this?  When you're down in the trenches, you have to be very practical.
They can only achieve their goals by establishing in their own mind
criteria (standards, rules, guidelines) upon which they are going to
base their decisions.  You say the system should be "error free" and I
agree, and then you go on to say "this happens by having working
(conflict free) control systems" to which I agree.  My question is how
do you help another system get to that point?  When you set a reference
for driving on the freeway, for establishing a closer relationship with
a member of your family, for satisfying an employer or improving your
job performance in a working environment, for employing a worker, or
for just buying food at a grocery store, you sure do have standards or
criteria based on your reference for the choices you're going to make
to achieve your goal.  And in order for you to function in the
environment in which you find yourself in some of the above situations,
you are going to have to become aware of what the agreed to standards
or rules are that others in that environment have agreed upon to live
by so that you and they can function cooperatively.  You can't see a
reference for safe driving but you can see stop signs, speed limits,
and you are made aware when you get a state drivers license of the
various rules or standards for driving.

Obviously, my friend, you have never read Freedom From Stress which
goes into great detail on explaining the relationship of standards,
principles, or whatever you want to call it, to the other levels on the
hierarchy of control and how all of that understanding helps people
control much more effectively and efficiently for references or goals.
You just don't deal exclusively with the highest goal.  And, more
importantly, the various people with whom I work evidence a need for
help in learning how to use their system more efficiently so that they
can function more effectively and get what they want.

People are able to articulate, prioritize, and evaluate not only
references, but set appropriate standards or rules or criteria that
will help them reach their goals.  Also, these rules or standards will
then act as a guide for the various choices they have to make IF they
have learned to use their system properly.  What I am trying to say is
you teach people how to use their own system, to set their own goals,
their own standards upon which they can make choices, because PCT
teaches me that that is how the system is designed.  This hierarchical
system is highly inter-connected, cross-connected, interdependent, and
being able to satisfy goals often demands the awareness and evaluation
of all these various levels.  And you know what, it all works.

This past week, I was at a conference where I was exposing educators
from around the country to my Teaching Responsible Thinking card.  What
excited them most was the obvious connection between PCT and the
practical use of the concepts on the card, regardless of the setting,
whether home, school, business, or wherever.  It gave them a very
logical and clear understanding between PCT and what I was teaching
them.  And, they saw the practical, down-to-earth aspects of what I was
saying.

You were absolutely wrong when you said...

>but you should be clear that this focuses your treatment strategy on
>getting a person to act in ways that are better FOR YOU -- and,
>incidentally, for the person him/herself.

I never, ever push people to act in a way that would be better for me.
That is absolutely wrong.  Please explain to me how this focuses my
treatment strategy on my goals (except that of helping them to function
more effectively and responsibly on their own).  Have you ever seen me
work with anyone or explain what I do through a role play
demonstration.  I suggest you read the role plays in chapters nine and
ten in Freedom From Stress.  If these people are a part of my life, a
necessary part of the environment in which I attempt to live and work
cooperatively with others (for example, at work or at home), I have to
find out what their goals are, what they are planning to do, how they
perceive things, so that I can deal with my life within the reality of
the choices these others are making.  In my counseling, it is the
clients who are asking for help in learning how to deal with their
world in such a way that they can satisfy their internal reference
signals, including getting along with the people in their lives.  It is
these living control systems that are asking for help.  They are asking
to be taught the skills of functioning more efficiently and to learn
how to reach their goals with the least amount of hassle.  My goal is
to help them with what they want.  The last thing I do is to impose my
values or beliefs on them.  They are going to have to deal with the
consequences that are a result of the goals, standards, and choices
they make.  I teach them how to manipulate themselves, to ride their
own bike, to make their own choices, to satisfy their own goals.  To
manipulate people in such a way as to get them to do what I want is
totally against good, sound counseling and teaching and totally against
the PCT design.  It is totally repugnant to everything I believe.

Ed Ford ATEDF@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU
10209 N. 56th St., Scottsdale, Arizona 85253            Ph.602 991-481
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU