HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: etkovacs@UNITY.NCSU.EDU
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: Software
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:27:15 GMT
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet

Re MANGAJIN -

The magazine is in English with Japanese. It contains some manga,
articles on cultural topics, vocab, and so on. I do not have the
address with me here, will post it when I get home. It is
available in many bookstores, and there is a special student
subscription rate for 5 issues. If you are a student, ask the
foreign language dept at your school about this.

I will give you more info when I get home this afternoon.

evatc

etkovacs@unity.ncsu.edu
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: mk0i@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (MONICA KELLNER)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: (none)
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:58:32 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <9207211912.AA15053@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU>, sdwyer@AGSM.UCLA.EDU (Stev
e Dwyer) writes:
>>
>> Victor--I hate to have to tell you this, and this is just my opinion,
>> but I think the Japanese are very racist. You need but look at the
>> history of the "Greater East Asian Coprosperity Sphere" to find this
>> out. In fact, you might want to read John Dower's book "War Without
>> Mercy" to get an idea of what the Japanese in the 1930s meant about the
>
>You say "the" (the implication sounds like "all") Japanese "are" (i.e.,
>present tense) racist, and back up your testimony with evidence from the
>1930s and citizenship requirements that are at least 10 years out of
>date.
>
>In fact, there are some prejudices the Japanese have.  However, Japan
>never had a KKK.  The Japanese people would never treat Korean athletes
>the way the Koreans treated the Japanese athletes in the opening
>ceremonies of the Olympic Games four years ago.  Although the Japanese
>do tend to over-generalize when it comes to ethniticity and national
>identity, these days it is more from a respect for the differences and
>sometimes a preference to uchi over soto, and it is not from any
>malevolence you see in the racism in most countries.
>
>Steve Dwyer
>
I agree, Steve
-- 
                                   Monica
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: klatta@MERIT.EDU
Subject: (none)
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:57:58 GMT

>Victor--I hate to have to tell you this, and this is just my opinion,
>but I think the Japanese are very racist.

Well, the term racist has maybe a little more baggage than I'd like.
Maybe ethnocentric would be better. Most Asians have a cultural value
that places preference on their own group. Japans insularity make that
more identified with their entire nation. In contrast the levels
of the same phenomena in China result in preferences for Chinese above
others, but even for members of their region over those from other parts
of the country. The part of Japanese behaviour I'd explicitly call
racists involves the attitude towards the "native" sub-population of
the other islands including Okinawa and Saipan. This is very similar
to the White Southerners who have African-American heritage or are
worried about that. That is, there's an element of denial about their
ethnic origin that is reflected in hostility to these "hairy, dark
skinned" members of their society (who of course don't lok particularly
dark or hairy to most of the rest of the people in the world).
A good general discussion (indeed one of the few such discussions I've ever
seen in print, only close friends will even discuss these things in
person) of these issues is in the recent book, "The Asian Mind Game." Written
by a Chinese woman who was born on the mainland, raised in Taiwan/Taipei,
and now an international business consultant in the States, it covers the
differences and similarities among Japanese, Chinese, and Koreans (primarily)
as well as the interactions among those groups. Very interesting reading.

Ken Latta, University of Michigan
From: mikem@comspec.com (Mike Martinez)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: OTAKU
Date: 28 Jul 92 09:55:44 GMT
Reply-To: mikem@comspec.com (Mike Martinez)
Followup-To: sci.lang.japan
Distribution: soc
Organization: Comspec Communications - Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Disclaimer:  Comspec Communications knows nothing of what I write.

tkim@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Tonghyun Kim) writes:

| Someone mentioned that the word "OTAKU" ("you" OR "fanboy/nerd" as a
| slang) has a feminine flavor. This is very different from my 
| understanding of the word "otaku". Can anyone give me an insight on this?

If I'm not mistaken, this derives from the traditional use of
"otaku-san" as a term for the lady of the house.  "Otaku" proper
refers to the residence, as in "X no otaku" for "X residence",
so this is how the associative term "otaku-san" relates.  (The
lady of the house would tend to be home, you see...)

The modern term "otaku" has come to mean (from what I have been
able to ascertain) any person with a hobby who is sufficiently
obsessed that it keeps that person indoors, at home, most of 
the time.  Many model and animation enthusiasts get hit by this
tag nowadays, among others.  It has an unpleasant connotation,
especially after the Miyazaki Tsutomu murders.
--
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.        | M. Martinez -- mikem@comspec.com
But I have promises to keep,                |---------------------------------
And miles to go before I sleep,             | UUCP:  ...uunet!mnetor!
And miles to go before I sleep.             |        lsuc!comspec!mikem
From: yoichi@milton.u.washington.edu (Yoichi Ii)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: Asuna???
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:00:12 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

>>"Asuna" sounds like Japanese, but there isn't such a word.

rto051@hippo.sps.mot.com (Chang Suk-Kyung) [David Luke]writes:
>One of those words like "Fiero", which Pontiac made up to sound Italian.

Mazda's Miata sounds like it's Italian *and* Japanese (Miyata) :-).
BTW, has there ever been a Japanese (passenger) car sold in Japan with a
Japanese name?  I mean, there are the Bluebirds, Camrys, Civics, etc, but I
can't think of any with "real" Japanese name.
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: sdwyer@AGSM.UCLA.EDU (Steve Dwyer)
Subject: @(HDESQview/X
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:48:51 GMT

>
> I beg to differ. I lived in Japan for 26 years, and I saw a great
> deal of ugly stuff. As for the immigration regulations, they may
> be out of date. I'd appreciate an update.
>
Automatic citizenship uesed to be granted only if the father was
Japanese.  Now a Japanese mother is enough.  Permanent residency is
possible after only 5 years in Japan; it used to be something like 10 or
12 years.  I do not know of the regulations requiring a Japanese name,
but I have heard of one famous guitarist who changed his citizenshpi
from French to Japanese without changing his name.  (I suppose it is
possible he was an exception -- this case was about 15 years ago.)

I never said there is no prejudice in Japan, but I did imply that the
prejudice is not as open as in other countries.  I would imagine that
none of the "ugly stuff" was actually ugly enough to be considered
criminal.  Am I wrong?

Having said that, I must apologize for seeming to apologize for the
Japanese.  The Koreans living in Japan do have a very rough time.  They
are discriminated in employment, then the Japanese blame them for not
having more respectable jobs.  The Japanese do allow Koreans to gain
Japanese citizenship, but the allotment for Koreans does not reflect the
number of Koreans with strong justification for citizenship.  My guess
is that the easiest way for a Korean to gain Japanese citizenship is to
first become French.  It does not seem fair to me.

What is wrong with requiring Japanese fluency to become Japanese?  I
would imagine that that would give an edge to the Japanese-born Koreans,
if it were not for the allotment system (which most coountries have).

Steve
From: SHERWOO@mitvma.mit.EDU (sue)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: (none)
Date: 21 Jul 92 15:16:59 GMT
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet

Victor--I hate to have to tell you this, and this is just my opinion,
but I think the Japanese are very racist. You need but look at the
history of the "Greater East Asian Coprosperity Sphere" to find this
out. In fact, you might want to read John Dower's book "War Without
Mercy" to get an idea of what the Japanese in the 1930s meant about the
nations of Asia assuming their "proper position." Their immigration
policies are exclusionary, and the vast majority of Japanese-born people
of Asian ancestry are not Japanese citizens. To become a Japanese citizen,
one must first steel oneself against prejudice and insularity. One must
then be able to speak, read and write Japanese very well and, finally,
be willing to abandon one's name for a Japanese name. This much I know
for sure. There is probably much more.
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: ASH733@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU (Akiko Hosler)
Subject: Re: racism in Japan
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 23:44:30 GMT

======================================================================== 49

  Thanks for the comments on the issue of racism.  (Especially James G.,
 Steve D., Warren R., Calude H., and Smittie, among others).

  There are a couple of things I want to add on this subject (sorry it is
 not directly related to Japan or the Japanese).
  First of all, the definition of ethnocentrism I used is based on the
 "Primordialist" view of ethnicity; that is, ethnicity (or the sense of
 peoplehood)is innate, instinctive, and present at birth.  There is an
 opposing view, of course, which is often called "rational model" or
 "Ethnogenesis".  In this view, ethnicity is also socially constructed
  just like "race", and that people use ethnicity to advocate
  political interests (Glazer and Moynahan, for example).
     Primordialists think basically an ethnic group is a kinship group
  (I mean, way back in history when the basic unit of people was tribe).
  When people did not have a means to travel a long distance (before the
  creation of a large ocean vessle, for example), there was almost no
  opportunity that people would meet other people with very different
  physical features.  (Scandinavians did not meet Bushmen).  The concept
  of race was introduced to people AFTER they could travel a long
  distance.  Namely CONQUEST and SLAVE TRANSFER created the inter-mix
  of peoples. (and later, nation-state building and immigration
  also created diversity of people within a state boundary).  This
  is why racism is assumed to be purposeful.  Racism in this context is
  understood as a system to legitimate exploitation of the subordinate
  people who were either conqured, enslaved, or became a part of minority
  population through annexation of territory.  Again, this view may not
  be a majority view and I expect some criticism on this as well.
     Some people define "racism" as "racial prejudice" (more emphasis
  on attitude than behavior). Social psychologists have done so much
  studies on this subject and there are millions of publications.
  I am more or less "structurlist" (that is, my focus of study is on
  the system or "the hardware" of a society rather than what people
  think or feel or "the software" of a society).  So I'm not an expert
  on this side of argument.

  Akiko Hosler
======================================================================== 19
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: thao@bnr.ca (Anthony Murtagh)
Subject: Re: OTAKU
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 14:01:46 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.071444.21631@uwm.edu> circuit@convex.csd.uwm.edu writes:
>From article <36166@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, by tkim@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Tonghyun Kim):
>> Someone mentioned that the word "OTAKU" ("you" OR "fanboy/nerd" as a
>> slang) has a feminine flavor. This is very different from my 
>> understanding of the word "otaku". Can anyone give me an insight on this?
>
>	OTAKU I believe really means home, house, residence. And Otaku
>used in slang as Computer-Otaku, Techno-Otaku, Manga-Otaku etc etc..
>Probably refers to that fact that that's all these people do. IN other
>words stay HOME and do their hobby all the time. 
>
>
>	Anybody want to elaborate...
>

hmmm...then it would be safe to imply that since women used to stay home
most of the time, the word has been associated with women/femininity.
seems like a good connection!

laly thao

/***********************************************************************************\
*   thao@cse.uta.edu	   |  "The lipstick is purple.  The mecha is Psycho."	    *
*   B645ZAY@UTARLG.UTA.EDU |                          -old Panime newsletter        *
\***********************************************************************************/

Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: CCC_KARG@rzmain.rz.uni-ulm.de (ComRam)
Subject: Japanese-IRC-Client
Organization: University of Ulm, Germany
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 07:57:11 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.23

Hello everyone ...
rumors spread that there should exist a Japanese Version of an IRC-Client.
I am not shure if it is using Katakana,Hiragana or even Kanji. If anyone
around knows details wether or not these piece of software exists
or even where to get it I would be very thankfull.

    +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
   /    +-           +-+                                                 /|
  /    /  +-+ +-+-+ / +  +-+ +-+-+                                      / |
 /    +- +-+ + + + + \  +-+ + + +                                      /  |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+   |
| Frank Kargl                       | IRC:ComRam Nightfall:Terminator |   |
| IP: CCC_KARG@RZMAIN.RZ.UNI-ULM.DE +---------------------------------|   |
|       COMRAM@IRAV17.IRA.UKA.DE    | Hasta la Vista , Baby.          |   |
| Bitnet:  CCC_KARG@DULRUU51.BITNET | I'll be back.                   |   +
| DECnet:  50186::CCC_KARG          +---------------------------------+  /
| PSImail: 0262450502601::RZMAIN::CCC_KARG                            | /
| X.400:   s=CCC_KARG;ou=RZ;p=uni-ulm;a=dbp;c=de (only in emergencies)|/
+-----------------------------------+---------------------------------+
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Subject: Re: nai desu
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
	<1992Jul20.180051.18128@news.Hawaii.Edu>
	<1992Jul20.233732.21951@nevada.edu>
	<1992Jul21.144451.20103@u.washington.edu>
	<1992Jul22.185323.24492@news.Hawaii.Edu>
	<1992Jul23.110210.2464@sics.se>
	<1992Jul24.175913.13401@news.Hawaii.Edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 19:19:30 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.175913.13401@news.Hawaii.Edu> mathias@uhunix.uhcc.
Hawaii.Edu (Gerald B. Mathias) writes:

  >I doubt that Martin derives "takai desu" from "takai no desu."  I just tried
  >to see what he does say in _A Reference Grammar of Japanese_, but decided to
  >postpone it to when I don't have the phone line tied up.  :-)

  I don't have Martin's big fat grammar - I held it my hand but came to my
senses - but this is what he says in Essential Japanese, Lesson 5:

   ..certain forms which have become a part of Standard Japanese
   originated in the dropping of the no: the polite forms of the
   adjective - atarashii desu, ii desu - came from the forms
   atarashii no desu, ii no desu. Some older Japanese still consider
   it poor style to say atarashii desu, ii desu - preferring at
   least atarashii n desu, ii n desu - but the younger people use
   the forms without even n constantly, so that they are now a
   part of Standard Japanese.

Martin's book dates from 1954.

  >Usually contractions retain the meaning of the full form, while "takai desu"
  >and "takai n(o) desu" are rather distinct.  Can you think of any other
  >contractions where sound loss is exactly mirrored by meaning loss?
  >Further, if "takai n(o) desu" could contract to "takai desu," what's to
  >keep "takai n(o) da" from turning to (yech!) *"takai da"?

  I don't know a thing about this, but perhaps "takai no desu" was used
precisely in order to have a form of the adjective that was both polite and
grammatically correct? No such special use of "takai no da" is needed, and
there is no corresponding reason why "takai da" should appear in the language.
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: claude@TRC.MEW.MEI.CO.JP (Claude Huss)
Subject: Only ethnicity? (Was racism in Japan)
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 03:41:24 GMT

Hi Gary!

brown> From my point of view, Japanese consider Americans of Japanese decent
brown> to be Japanese residing abroad.  Doesn't this relate to the concept of
brown> ethnocentrism, where "Japanese" as an ethnicity is a stronger trait from
brown> the Japanese persepctive than one's citizenship or home country.

IMHO, I think many people of japanese descent will consider themselves as
"Japanese", but the people in Japan will not consider it that way.
I know a lot of cases about it. As I'm an italian-brazilian, I know a
lot of people with japanese descent in Japan and they receive a very
"strange" treatment. Sometimes they are treated as completely "foreigners"
and only a few times like "japanese". I know even some cases where the
person has double citizenship and the japanese don't consider them japanese!
I know other cases where first-generation japaneses after some time came
back to Japan and were considered as a completely foreigner!!

We cannot forget about the question of "KIKOKUSHIJO" (Children of returned
expatriates) who are treated sometimes very bad. There are cases of
children of mixed descent who are treated as "IJIMEKO" in the school...

IMHO, much more the ethnicity, the japanese take care about if that person
"share same values or have same way of thinking or look like a japanese
or act as a 'japanese'". There are a lot of requirements, not only
ethnicity...

Ciao,


--
Claude Huss
Matsushita Electric Works, Ltd. Tokyo Research Labs.
Phone: +81-3-3452-4941	FAX: +81-3-3451-0793  Home:(044) 549-4913
Mita 5-13-2, Minato-Ku, Tokyo 108, JAPAN
DISCLAIMER:"I'm not singing, dancing, joking or even working for my employer"
From: peters@cs.city.ac.uk (Peter Smith)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: The "n" in all of us.
Date: 22 Jul 92 11:47:41 GMT
Organization: City University

My favourite Japanese word that means something in another language is
sakana -fish. In Portuguese it is a swear word, nothing very much, but then
I saw a film called "Piranha", where this Brazilian guy stuck his foot in the
water and said - you guessed it, sakana.

Peter Smith
City University
London, England.
peters@cs.city.ac.uk

In <qeDqNB2w165w@tsoft.sf-bay.org> bbs.lar@tsoft.sf-bay.org (Larry Greenfield) writes:

>"Shin Shin", eh?  Good... now everyone, how about some others?
>:::::Larry:::::

>--
>Larry Greenfield (bbs.lar@tsoft.sf-bay.org)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: FWG@CU.NIH.GOV
Subject: Re:  PC Software for Teaching Japanese
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 13:30:24 GMT

Please unsubscribe me from the list!
<FWG@NIHCU.BITNET> (I have requested this 4 times with no success)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: mark@hpcvxmsr.cv.hp.com (Mark Rowe)
Subject: Re: racism in Japan
Keywords: FLAME netiquette
Reply-To: mark@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com
Organization: UDT-CV (ITO)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 17:58:30 GMT

In article <346@suite.uunet.uu.net>, Mark-Tarbell@suite.com writes:
> ...
> ..just a call for discussion. 

HOLD EVERYTHING!  This has really gone on long enough.  This news group is
sci.lang.japan and my understanding is that the proper subject for its
postings is the Japanese language.  By extension it will naturally include
postings on Japanese alphabet, literature, word-processors, etc., and the
inevitable basenote drift will result in occassional detours into other
topics.  However, there is a news group called soc.culture.japan and
discussions on racism in Japan, Japanese car theft, etc. would be much
more appropriately placed in that news group.  I hope I am not being
overly sensitive on the subject, but there has been an excessive amount
of traffic in the news group lately which has little if anything to do
with the Japanese language. My apologies to anyone who feels I'm out of
line, but I felt it needed to be said.

Mark Rowe             email: mark@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com
Hewlett Packard       voice: (503) 750-3246
Corvallis, OR         FAX:   (503) 750-3788
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: etkovacs@UNITY.NCSU.EDU
Subject: Re: Software on Unix.
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:57:37 GMT

Hallo -

NJSTAR ist fuer MSDOS und ist im wuarchive.wustl.edu /mirrors/editors,
ich denke ( meine?). Es gibt auch in(m?) Europa, weiss nicht wo.

Please excuse the lousy Deutsch.
evatc
etkovacs@unity.ncsu.edu
From: saka@nff.ncl.omron.co.jp (SAKAGUCHI Takeyuki (OES))
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: nai desu
Date: 23 Jul 92 09:48:57 GMT
	<1992Jul20.180051.18128@news.Hawaii.Edu>
	<1992Jul20.233732.21951@nevada.edu>
	<1992Jul21.144451.20103@u.washington.edu>
	<1992Jul22.185323.24492@news.Hawaii.Edu>
Reply-To: saka@nff.ncl.omron.co.jp
Organization: OMRON Co., Kyoto, 617 Japan.
In-reply-to: mathias@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu's message of 22 Jul 92 18:53:23 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.185323.24492@news.Hawaii.Edu> mathias@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Gerald B. Mathias) writes:

 |[his profound inspection on `nai desu' deleted]
 |
 |     *`Nai da' is out because the `-i' handles all three functions and `da'
 |is totally redundant.  `Nai desu' is in, because without the `desu' there is no
 |way to mark the politeness.  `Gozaimasen deshita' is in, because the `deshita'
 |is needed for the tense.  (I have heard `Gozaimasen desu,' but it should be
 |out.  How common are such?  Is it like `o-go-chiso^sama'?)

  I agree. `nai desu' is not grammatical, but we (Japanese natives) often use it
because there is no other way to mark the politeness in handy. I remember
announcement on a platform in our local railroad station says:

    abunai desu kara hakusen no uchigawa de o-machi kudasai.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  - please keep outside of the white line because it's dangerous inside.

More grammatically, it could be:

    abunai no de hakusen no uchigawa de o-machi kudasai.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^

# I wonder which side is `uchigawa(inside)' on a platform? if railroad track
# side is uchigawa, many Japanese will be hit by passing express trains! :)

----
    _____                     ==============================
_|_ |___   ______             |   SAKAGUCHI Takeyuki
 |  |  |   |    |             |   saka@nff.ncl.omron.co.jp
_|_ | \|   |    |             |     OMRON Corporation,
   /  /\   |____|             |     Kyoto, JAPAN.
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: sielmann@DKRZ-HAMBURG.DBP.DE ("F.Sielmann")
Subject: kanji-software
X-Unparsable-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 03: 57:39 TZONE
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 07:58:00 GMT

Hello Hartwig,

You can find an kanji-editor at ftp-site utsun.u-tokyo.ac.jp (133.11.11.11)
in the directory fj/moke .
You'll find there packed files beginning with mk* which you have to tranfer
in the binary mode to your site.
This editor is able to read jis-coded sjis-coded and EUC-coded japanese
files. Usually the files in the newsgroups are jis-coded.
Please refer to the included manual for details !

The same directory contains a file kanjips.tar.Z .
This is a program packet enabling to print japanese file in the jis-code
on a postscript-printer.

This packet only runs on Unix-maschines.

The moke packet runs on MSDOS-maschines, but just contains a NEC-P6-24
printer driver. This driver is invoked with "jprint" as you will see.

If you have any more questions concerning the installation please
don't hesitate to send an e-mail to sielmann@dkrz-hamburg.dbp.de .

Good luck !

Frank