HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: yewang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Yenwen Wang)
Subject: Re: Why don't you stay ?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 01:44:04 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.180524.15801@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li) writes:

>1. the point is not what you think you are but what the others think you are.
>and
>2. UN was considering PRC as the rebel of the KMT government before 1971.
>
>So do you think PRC should accept the fact "PRC was the rebel of the KMT
>government before 1971"? If so, I guess history books in China should be 
>rewitten.
>

While we are at it(U.N.), does any netter have info on the new
development in the design of Security Council?

I read from somewhere that in 1995, the 50th anniversary of U.N.,
the Security Council will be expanded to accomodate new countries.
Maybe from 5 permanent seats to 10. It reflects the development 
after WWII:

1. Countries recovering from WWII: Japan, Germany.

2. Newly emerging regional power: India, Iran? Indonesia?

3. For regional balance: Egypt? Brazil? Argentina?

ROC may have a better(slightly at this time) chance of
returning to U.N. because under the new design, even with one
or two(I am not sure) council members' veto, ROC can still be
admitted.

Yenwen Wang

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  Yenwen Wang                        wangy@kaa.eng.ohio-state.edu
  The Ohio State University          yewang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: v999qx29@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: F-16's fear?
Date: 8 Sep 92 02:48:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Sep7.162941.16749@cc.uow.edu.au>, u9259236@cc.uow.edu.au (Leslie Shing Chi Tong) writes...
> 
>As far as it can remember from reading history books,when the Japanese
>first invaded china,the Nationalist didn't fight the japs to defend china,
>but instead let the communist do the fighting,so they can preserve their 
>resources to fight the communist when they(communist) has defeated japan,
>there were some nationalists soldiers who choose to fight the japanese to
>defend their country but Cheng Kai Shek decided to cut off their supplies
>to force them to withdrawn,it wasn't until Shek was kidnapped in the
>**** **** incident(can't remember the english name) in which he was forced
>to co-operate with the communist to fight the japanese.
>When the war is over,Shek was eventually defeated by the communist and 
>escaped to Taiwan,many nationalist soldier(about a million) was left in china
>and eventually masscare by communist,
>can I get a explaination for the above incident?
>(note: I'm not a communist supporter nor a TIers,I just wanted to know why
>Shek was such a shit-head,while he has "awarded" himself many medals,but I 
>don't think that he has actcaully took part in any battle at all)


I suggest you to read the history book written by foreigners instead of those
written by any side of the straights. 
As can be recalled by elder Taiwanese who has experienced WWII in Japanese
ruled Taiwan, the Japanese propaganda was "Destroy Roosvelt,Churchill and
Chiang". Never heard about Mao or Communist.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:25538 soc.culture.taiwan:13357
From: zzuo@iastate.edu (Zhiqi Zuo)
Subject: Re: Japanese Imperial Army Was Invited by CCP?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 22:20:17 GMT

In article <2569@aegis.or.jp> davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:
>zzuo@iastate.edu (Zhiqi Zuo) writes:
>
>>The above speculation is confirmed by my grandchildren,
>
>I guess you mean't grandparents....

No. Sorry for having not made a typo.

I meant my grandchildren, who are as real as the theory 
that Japan was tricked, by CCP, into another agressive war 
against the chinese army. Later, the Japanese army was
tricked into many other countries, without being aware of
it. Since many people are supposed to belive that CCP can
do almost everything terribly imaginable, this can be a 
pertty persuasive excuse, among many others. Another theory, 
that the eight countries took the capital of Qing dynasty
caused by Boxing bandit, has already been widespred among
western people and even many of our chinese. There is no 
Excuse for us to belive an additional one. After all, the 
history can be written by people, usually the people on the 
winning side.

>>who were on the scene, on that day of 1937, at the Marco 
>>Polo Bridge.
>
>>At the time, CCP forced a couple of the Japanese 
>>soldiers to make some water. Since they were too slow 
>>in doing that...(you know what happened.)
>
>They didn't say anything about shots being invovled?

They didn't. Being too young, they alredy had much 
difficulty to talk about the event. I can't demand more 
than this. :=)

But I guess that 6 years' preparation in Manchuria was 
enough for the Japanese army to fufill its initial 
ambition further into the South. All in all, Manchuria 
was too small in its eyes, if the combined size of East 
and South Asia is considered.

There is a map, surely very old, in our department. 
In it, China was a country with a part of Yangtz River, 
from Shanghai to at least Wuhan, as its long boundary 
with Japan. This might have reflect the official attitude 
of America to some extent, sometime before 1942.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: zzuo@iastate.edu (Zhiqi Zuo)
Subject: Re: Japanese Imperial Army Was Invited by CCP?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 21:36:35 GMT

In article <2589@aegis.or.jp> davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:

>>>>The above speculation is confirmed by my grandchildren,
>>>
>>>I guess you mean't grandparents....
>
>>No. Sorry for having not made a typo.
>
>Sorry I responded to your post thinking it was serious.

It was, though my tone sounded not serious.

>[* remainder of post omitted *]
>
>Not wanting to make the same mistake again, I'll just pass
>on the rest of your post.

Then you made another mistake this time. Anyway, it is not 
too late to correct both of them. :-(

>
>Regards,

Zhiqi

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
From: elelyc@nuscc.nus.sg (Y.C. Liang)
Subject: Re: Who Cares 150 F-16s.
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 03:59:14 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.174825.20736@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> jqtan@northstar60 (Jian-Qi Tan) writes:
>Taiwanese government's feeling of insecurity is a result of its own ambition
>to rule the whole China someday.  Especially these days, many foreign powers
>are keen on promoting "human rights and democracy" in China.  Taiwan couldn't
>wait for the day when the central government collapse and it becomes the
>biggest warlord in China, with many F-16s and Mirages.
>
>Right now as the informal exchanges across the straight become heavier, the
>Taiwanese government fears losing its influence over its own business and
>industry.  That's why it's balking on any talk on more official exchange.
>Why can't Taiwanese government accept the fact that it doesn't have any
>real foreign politicy and it is only a provincial power.  This realization
>is a good starting point of any meaningful talk.

I am wondering how old is this Mr. Tan and how long has he been
overseas.  What he said is really difficult to be agreed with.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:25062 soc.culture.taiwan:13009 soc.culture.korean:4233 soc.culture.hongkong:10570
From: michaels@teal.csn.org (Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Harbin, Yansong Liang
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:14:43 GMT
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.

This message is for Mr. Yansong Liang from Harbin Institute of Technology who
is pursuing a Ph.D study in the United Kingdom. I would appreciate very much 
if you would forward this message to him (or you could send me a message tellingme his address, phone #, etc.).

Yansong, please send me a message at this address:

michaels@teal.csn.org

or call me at 1-303-491-8915 (USA phone number) at home.

We have a lot to talk about.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: becherer@suna7.cs.uiuc.edu (Max Becherer)
Subject: Vincent Chin Murder
Summary: A poem
Keywords: Vincent Chin Murder
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 06:52:36 GMT

Epitaph to Ronald Ebens

He who murders shall in time,
Have to answer for his crime.

Mr. Ebens, thou hath murdered Vincent Chin,
Thou hath committed a Cardinal Sin.

Earthly law punished not thine brutal act,
But always remember this most important fact:

Thou can run, but cannot hide,
From the justice of the Other Side,

Thine destiny is known all too well -
Thou shalt forever burn in Hell.

Max Becherer   becherer@cs.uiuc.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: d10590@tanus.oz.au (Robert Chalmers)
Subject: John McLoughlin
Organization: Pro-Net Australia
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 12:41:48 GMT

Looking for John \ John McLoughlin, formerly of Mass., and the class of 84, Di
Yi, Beijing.
_________________________________________________________________________
|Robert Chalmers. d10590@tanus.oz.au       Mackay, Queensland. Australia|
|APCUG nanguo!root   (AUS)               UUCP mwcbbs!nanguo!earth  (USA)|
|---------------------* ao zhong youyi wan sui *------------------------|
|  UUCP nanguo!root  +61  79-521070 AEST:24 Hours. in:nuucp rd:uupublic |
|  MYNAME=bbsuser   ~/INFO   Australian-Pacific Coherent User Group     |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: jwtlai@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca (Jim W "GrimJim" Lai)
Subject: Re: Please educate this man
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 00:56:45 GMT

In article <24539@oasys.dt.navy.mil> mulvihil@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Lawrence Mulvihill) quotes from a newspaper:
>If Judy Mann had called me, I would have suggested that
>multiculturalism is explicitly wrong, because it denies
>the superiority of Western values as a way of life for
>humans (in effect, setting up situational
>ethics relativism for cultures).
>
>-- Newt Gingrich
>   Republican Whip
>   U.S. Representative (R-Ga.)
>
>   From a letter to the Washington Post Sept 2, 1992

This, of course, ignores the fact that the West has never been of a single
culture.  In this context, "Western values" no doubt meant "proper American
values".
From: K.Shiono@bradford.ac.uk (K SHIONO)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: ~{N'Fe3LPr~}
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:12:10 GMT
Distribution: all
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Originator: s1188@muser

In article <honglin.25@apmaths.uwo.ca> honglin@apmaths.uwo.ca (Honglin Ye) writes:
>
>
>Does anyone have any computer go-game (wei2 qi2 cheng2 xyu4)?
>
>About four years ago, I heard some very good computer go-game
>
>program ( be equivilent to ~{6~6N~})
>
> had been avaliable. I have been looking for such software
>
>for a long time. I played with two go-games, it seems that they are
>
>still far from ~{3u6N~}. Can anyone tell  me where to get such
>
>programs?  Thank you in advance.
> 

subscribe rec.games.go.
From: jlam@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (Lord Automato)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Insensitive mainland chauvinist view. (Was: Who Cares 150 F-16s.)
Date: 13 Sep 92 09:01:34 GMT
Organization: University of Melbourne


In article <18t1nmINNlk3@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU>, xzh@eddy.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Xiang Zhou) writes:
|> In article <3119@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU>, jlam@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (Lord Automato) writes:
|> |> 
|> |> In article <18qo6rINNant@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU>, xzh@eddy.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Xiang Zhou) writes:
|> |> |> In article <1992Sep11.164318.3341@news.acns.nwu.edu>, usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:
|> |> |> |> >     Suppose Guangdong wants to be indepedent some day and pass
|> |> |> |> > a referendum, is that O.K. ? Then maybe other Provinces will follow.
|> |> |> |> > There will be some thirty countries on mainland, is that what you want ?
|> |> |> |> > 
|> |> |> |> 
|> |> |> |> Ask people in Guangdong whether they want independence. Ask them! Let them  
|> |> |> |> vote! If most people in Guangdong want to be independent, let them go! Again,  
|> |> |> |> let people choose their future! If most people in Guangdong or Fujian or Yunan,  
|> |> |> |> etc. want to be independent, you just can't stop them even you have troops of  
|> |> |> |> 10 million.
|> |> |> |> 
|> |> |> 
|> |> |>     I must admit that I have to try very hard to hold my anger and not to be
|> |> |> rude.  But I must ask: who the hell are you ?  If you are a Chinese, you must
|> |> |> be the first to sell your conutry and friends for your own good whenever
|> |> |> you have a chance. 
|> |> 
|> |> I don't see there there is any logic behind your assertion.
|> |> 
|> 
|> 
|>      For your information, I am a mathematician and I know how to use
|> logic when it's necessary. I have met people like him (or you), I just
|> know what stuff is in his (or your) mind.
|> 

So this time you want to prove by intimidation? Sure you are not using logic
in this case (you only say when it is necessary, prove that you have used
it last time .. :-) ). 

By the way, your statements has no reasons in it. Keep your feeling behind
and use your logic.

|> |> |> If you are not a Chinese, you must be someone who wants
|> |> |> to gain benefits from a chaotic China. 
|> |> 
|> |> How do you know that it would be chaotic?
|> |> 
|> 
|> 
|>     Do you know it wouldn't ? You want to put 1 billion Chinese on risk ?
|> Do you have family there? Your parents ? Brothers ? Sisters ? None !! You
|> just want to have something to watch, (maybe your life is too boring.) go
|> to a zoo, find a pet to play or something.

Hey, mathematician, are you running out of logic now?

Lin Can
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: hong@mbfys.kun.nl (Hong Zhou)
Subject: Looking for a friend at Univ. of Texas
Organization: University of Nijmegen
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 08:46:02 GMT

Hi Everyone out Texas,

I am in search of the address/telephone number of a friend
whose name is Elsje Verhagen. She is a graduate student majoring
in Education at Univ. of Texas. If you can help me to locate 
her, please drop me a message. Your help is deeply appreciated. 

Thanks in advance, 

Hong Zhou
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hong Zhou            |-----|    \       Dept. of Med. Physics & Biophysics
Muzenplaats 30       |__|__| |-----|    University of Nijmegen
6525 JA Nijmegen     | _|_ |  --|--     6525 EZ Nijmegen, The Netherlands
The Netherlands      |  _  |   / 	
                     | |_| |  / /       Tel.   +31-80-614230
Tel. +31-80-556412  /     \|   /__\     email: hong@mbfys.kun.nl
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: 150 F-16 to Taiwan
Date: 6 Sep 92 21:11:00 GMT
Organization: New York University

v999qx29@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu writes:
> 
>In article <65500094@acf3.NYU.EDU>, yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , ) writes...
>>Why did you use the word "even", there is no doubt in most ereas, their
>>technology is incomparative to ours, only in a few ereas, because
>>the USA has a weaker control on technology export to them, they
>>do better than mainland.
>>They are eventually feeded up by USA, they do not have too much things
>>feel proud of.
>> 
>>Ze Yang

>Have you been hurt by some Taiwanese who look down at you because you are
>not as rich as they? Once again, instead of speaking something to put down
>Taiwanese so you will feel less hurt, do your best to improve mainland.

Maybe this is the first time I am hurt by a Taiwanese, I can not
imagine what Taiwanese have to feel proud of, not to say
look down at others. 
Don't you think the USA fed up Taiwan, Taiwan benefited from the cold
war.
I said this because some Taiwanese posted a few posts recently saying
how much surplus they have, etc.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: gang@ms.uky.edu (Gang Li)
Subject: Re: Insensitive mainland chauvinist view. (Was: Who Cares 150 F-16s.)
    <1992Sep14.151016.29990@news.acns.nwu.edu>
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:57:17 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:

>As long as you believe most people are not fool, then let them choose future  
>for themselves. If the majority of the not-fool-people choose to leave, do you  
	The logic problem here is the majority of what, should the majority
	of the country follow the majority of a province? Let history
	decide whether a country should exist, we have the right to select
	not sufferring, if we are the majority. As whether people are fool
	or not which depends on your standard.
>see there is a very very serious problem in China. If it were so (I doubt it  
>seriously), then there would be no need for a country call China exit in the  
>world.

>Carl
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
From: 129.83.161.10 (H. Chao)
Subject: Re: Specification of F-16, SU-27 (I)
Organization: MITRE
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:35:58 GMT

In article <92Sep11.115523edt.121@orasis.vis.toronto.edu>,
liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Sep11.142630.7956@linus.mitre.org> 129.83.161.10 (H. Chao) writes:
> > 
> >>   PROC(Mainland)
> >>     1). purchased about 24 SU-27 fighters last year.
> >>     2). bought 72 SU-27 and 24 MIG-31 interceptors early this year.
> >>     3). acquired the right to license-production of 200+ MIG-31
> >
> >Why they want to acquire the right to license-production of 200+ MIG-31
> >instead of MiG-29 or Su-27??  MiG-31 is not an air-superiority fighter.  It
> >is only a interceptor with surveillance cappability. 
> >
> Maybe they are much more concerned about develop interceptors to defend its own
> airspace rather than carpeting bombing Taiwan or others like lots of people 
> would like you to believe.  
> 
 I still can not understand the logic even they want to "develop
interceptors to defend its own airspace rather than carpeting bombing
Taiwan."  Usually, four MiG-31's in formation can cover an area equivalent
to a US AWACS does.  Finding enemy warplanes, the MiG-31 will conduct
air-superiority fighters (MiG-29 or Su-27) to approach and attact them. 
Without enough air-superiority fighters how to control (defend) their own
airspace?
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:25316 soc.culture.taiwan:13174
From: yang-allan@CS.YALE.EDU (J. Allan Yang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Who Cares 150 F-16s.
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:20:16 GMT
	<lb1ko4INNd4g@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
Organization: Dept of CS, Yale University, New Haven, CT 06520-2158


 > From: stlin@stevelin.Eng.Sun.COM (Steven Lin)
 > Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
 > Date: 11 Sep 92 17:10:28 GMT
 > References: <BuCEr5.JB9@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> <10SEP199215495996@deimos.ucc.umass.edu>
 > ....
 > Da Yeh has money, what you can do about it? Da Yeh is buying Shanghai
 > streets, what you can do about it?
 > ...

I feel very ashamed to see another people from Taiwan posted
something like this. The best way to deal with Mr. Steven Lin is to
ignore him.

Just to let everyone know that most Taiwanese are not this kind of
vulgarian.

- Allan
From: binlee@vtcc1.cc.vt.edu (L. D. ROPER)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Nankai Alumni Address Book
Date: 13 Sep 92 17:59:00 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Virginia
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


Hi,all you guys:

   I will edit a Nankai Alumni Address Book for Nankai Alumni in North 
America.If you are Nankai Alumni or you know any of your friends are
Nankai Alumni,would you please or ask your friends send me a short 
message if you or your friends are willing to have their name list on
the Nankai Alumni Address Book(North America).

   In the short message,please including the years and major studied in
Nankai,your current position and your address,phone number,email address
I will post all I got on soc.culture.china and I will send each Alumni
a email message and mail if possible.

   Please contact me at:

     binlee@vtcc1.bitnet
or   binlee@vtcc1.cc.vt.edu

     my phone number are:   (703)231-5575 (office)
                            (703)951-3067 (home)

Your assistance will be highly appreciated!


Best regard to every one!

Bin Lee
From: v999qx29@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Taiwanese and Mainlander
Date: 12 Sep 92 19:00:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

I've been communicating with netters in this newsgroup for a while. Summarized
from the coversations between Taiwanese and Mainlanders , It seems to me that
the bottom line of Taiwanese and that of Mainlanders are quite different though 
both agree If it is possible a democratic ,rich and united China is the most
favorable. The bottom line of Taiwanese is that they have the full right to
deside which way they are going in the future and keep their hard earned
democrocy and wealth safe from any challenge and they reserve the possibility
of TI while Mainlanders' bottom line is the integrity of China and they reserve
the possibility of invading Taiwan. Why not let us just sit down and wait. 
I believe things will turn out to be O.K. for everybody after all. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: cyc@z.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang)
Subject: Re: F-16's fear?
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:21:17 GMT

>>>>But, do you know that PRC refused to pay back ROC's war debt borrowed from
>>>>the USA during the Civil war at 1949 ?
>>>
>>>No matter what, most countries and the UN acknoledge that PRC is the
>>>legal seccesor of ROC.
>>>
>
>>Totally wrong. CCP won and KMT lost China thats it. Did any rule said that
>>a loser must give up everything he owned to the winner ?
>
>I just want to repeat my statement: Most countries (including
>the United Stated of America, and Japan--which are your goingtobe
>masters if you secede from China) and the United Union acknowledge
>that People's Republic of China is the legal seccesor of ROC.
>

Even so, they only recognized what ROC has lost to PRC, such as mainland
China, not what ROC still owned. It's true that PRC is now recognized as
China, but since ROC is still there, PRC has to destroy ROC to claim what
still belonged to ROC, don't you ?
A loser lost whatever he lost in a war, but unless it is eliminated, he
will surely hold on what still left to him. Taiwan belong to ROC, there is
no doubt of it. If PRC want it, come to get it. But, be careful don't be 
kicked by the whole world to condemn PRC as an invader. 

Yi-Chieh
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li)
Subject: Re: Who Cares 150 F-16s.
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 23:55:55 GMT


In article <Sep.11.14.47.38.1992.11128@sol.rutgers.edu>, lixj@sol.rutgers.edu (Xiao-jian Li) writes...
>li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li) writes:
> 
>>Again, Taiwan has proposed "no war" agreement but Mainland China refused. 
>>Tell me why?
> 
>Is that obvious? It is just a common topics that both CCP and KMT can
>talk about, keep the friendly conversation,
>KMT: no war
>CCP: no no war
>KMT: got to have no war
>CCP: no way to have no war
>KMT: I will have F16...
>Uncle Sam: I will count my green
> 
>Yuan1 Da4 Tou2
> 
>sorry, folks. just can't help:-)

Irrelevant. This guy's brain must have been bombarded by F16. :-)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china