From: inkblot@leland.Stanford.EDU (Thomas Calvin Cannon)
Subject: Re: SFII-CE Match-UPs and Ratings
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 19:12:57 GMT

In article <Bz4y6p.H9D@news.cso.uiuc.edu> caine@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Lord of the Sith) writes:
>inkblot@leland.Stanford.EDU (Thomas Calvin Cannon) writes:
>
[comments on Ryu/Ken vs. Sagat deleted]
>
>  Ok.  About Ken.  After some more thought, I would have to say that I 
>*dislike* fighting Ken with Sagat.  I don't like fighting against the DP of
>his, but I like fighting with it.  To me, Ryu is an easier fight.  I happen
>to play the defensive Sagat, and the only thing that really troubles me is
>the "deep" uppercut.  Once I get that down, I should be more dangerous.
>However, it easy to fall into playing a pattern Sagat, and some Ryu players
>here (yeah, you Seth) are figuring this out.  Grrrrr...

Hmmmm...Try this.

TIPS ON EXECUTING A 'DEEP' UPPERCUT
-----------------------------------
1) Get a little bit farther away than you think you should be.

   At the 'bottom' of the TU (_very_ close to the ground), Sagat's range is a 
little further than even Ken's.  I've found that executing a TU at the 
furthest extent of Sagat's horizontal range gives a higher 'clean-hit' (no
trade) percentage.

2) Late, Late, Late
   
   If you follow tip 1, then you can afford to TU extremely late in your
opponent's jump.  The reason is that even if you're too late and the TU gets 
blocked, you're out of your opponent's effective range (if you do a jab TU).
You may have to block a fireball, but that's no biggie.  Soon you'll get the
timing right, and you can start executing fierce 'deep' uppercuts without
fear. >=)

>  Fireball trap?  I don't think so.  His FB speed is amazing, but the low
>firebird is way easy to avoid for Ken/Ryu.  Nothing a short HK can't fix.
>Guile has his problems...two low firebirds usually do the trick (roundhouse).
>Most players that can propel their bodies (ie. Honda, Bison, etc.) also
>should have any problems in escaping...  The FB trap usually gets started,
>but it is broken by mixing up high- and low-tigers.  I doubt it can be
>sustained as Ryu's can.  Other comments?

RYU/KEN
-------
I don't think a hurricane kick will do it.  A high tiger will sway Ryu/Ken
out of the air, or at least keep him pinned (although not in the corner).  This
is definately a partial break though.

BISON/HONDA
-----------

The firebird trap won't work to these two, primarily because the cheezepedo/
blubber express sails right over a low tiger.  (smacking Sagat in the face)
To counter, Sagat must mix between high and low tigers, which destroys the
trap.

GUILE
------

Toast.  Against Guile, the trap is every bit as effective as Ryu's is.  I 
haven't found a Guile yet that's been able to get out, although it _is_
possible to turn the trap into a stalemate.  All Guile has to do is duck the 
high tigers, and do a forward 'turn kick' (neutral stick + forward) over the
low tigers.

ALL OTHERS
----------
Combined with a deep TU, the trap is very effective.  It doesn't have the 
killing potential that Ryu's has, but it's a good way to force your opponent
into making a mistake (like jumping into a fierce TU)
>
>Ken is #1.
>Caine Schneider
>
---
T. Cannon
(who thinks Ken's SPAM against Sagat)


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