HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo)
Subject: Re: Diamond-hard SF
Organization: TECHbooks of Beaverton Oregon - Public Access Unix
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:01:58 GMT


Should diamond-hard be classified as "non-fiction" once it
has thrown out the conventions of character and plot?  Hardly.
Sterling's "Twenty Evocations" is SF with settings and characters but 
no plot.  In much of SF the characters could be edited out with no 
significant loss, except for timber workers.  There are several no-plot 
and no-character post-modern works to look to, if we just have to resort 
to the inferiority complex and follow the dictates of mundane fiction.

_Engines of Creation_ and related future-tech works are fiction,
however they are classified.  But they typically do not
create future societies or peoples for the tech to interact with.
They usually don't fit the >1 idea/per page criterion.  They often hide
the tech in obscure Latin-Greek explanation or tech-manual
style, instead off _illustrating_ it.  They are not diamond-hard.  

In contrast to interesting and important, but poorly written,
evocations of the future like _Engines of Creation_, diamond-hard 
would use the vivid descriptive style of Gibson or Dilliard or Wolfe.  
Listen to Wolfe describe the best part of a stock car race:

  The pack will be going into a curve when suddenly two cars,
  three cars, four cars tangle, spinning and splattering all
  over each other and the retaining walls, upside down, right
  side up, inside out and in pieces, with the seams bursting
  open and discs, rods, wires, and gasoline spewing out and
  yards of sheet metal shearing off like Reynolds Wrap and
  crumpling into the most baroque shapes, after which an 
  ash-blue smoke starts seeping up from the ruins and a thrill
  begins to spread over the stands like Newburg sauce.

That's hard.  That's _diamond_ hard.  If only SF authors would
describe future tech like that!

Written diamond's primary tool is prose -- succinct and powerful 
descriptions of technology in the native tongue.  Flatlining.  
Cyberspace.  Diamond-hard is about creating in the mind, and
describing in the medium, future tech and society.  

Diamond-hard is not into political schticks.  Its goal is not to 
"fight the status quo", show the evil effects of future society,
or the wonders ahead, ad nauseum.  The goal of diamond-hard
is to describe honestly the terror, wonder, revulsion, or
thrill of the new possibilities it raises.  

Too bad authors, fandom, editors & critics are too hog-tied
by their inferiority complex to "literature", and its cult
worship of "character" and "plot", to dare try ignoring 
its prejudices.


-- 
Nick Szabo					 szabo@techboook.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: wade@samish.stanford.edu (Elizabeth Wade)
Subject: origins of "ansible"
Organization: Psychology Dept, Stanford Univ.
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 06:14:04 GMT

Does anyone know the origins of the word "ansible" (meaning
instantaneous communications device)?  I know Ursula Le Guin 
used it (in _Rocannon's World_ and _The Dispossessed_ among 
others), but did she invent it?  I also noticed it being used in 
Orson Scott Card's _Ender_ books.  Has anyone seen it elsewhere?

(Apologies if this has come up before; I'm relatively new to this
newsgroup.)

Liz
wade@waldron.stanford.edu
.sig reported missing, feared lost
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: alix@iastate.edu (L.A. Melloy)
Subject: Info on book releases...
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:35:30 GMT

I figure I've done something like this before, might as well do it again...

Basically, I'm asking y'all out there if anyone has any information about
when a couple authors' new books would be coming out.

1)  Jennifer Roberson's _Tapestry_of_Lions_ in her Chronicles of the Cheysuli
    series.  It's the eighth and last book in the series, and I've been
    waiting for it to come out for the last three years (at least).
2)  Kathryn Kurtz's newest _Heirs_of_St._Camber_ book.  It's been a while
    since _Harrowing_of_Gwenydd_ came out.

Any ideas?


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leigh Ann Melloy  |  "I would like us to come together and build......
alix@iastate.edu  |                a chopstick." - From the movie _Mr._Baseball
===============================================================================
From: eah4@po.CWRU.Edu (Elizabeth A. Hlabse)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: release date for _Javan's_Year_
Date: 21 Nov 1992 21:24:18 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: eah4@po.CWRU.Edu (Elizabeth A. Hlabse)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, mfterman@flower.Princeton.EDU (Mutant for Hire) says:

>Its already out in some places. I saw a copy at Philcon at one of the
>dealer's tables, but didn't get it figuring I'll ask it for Xmas or
>wait for the paperback version that comes out. The ending isn't too
>much of a surprise once you've read the cover blurb and have taken a
>look at Javan's life expectancy in the geneologies. It looks like there
>might be another Deryni book set in this era, but not necessarily.
>
There is another book set in this era.  _Javan's Year_ is the
second book in the Heirs of St. Camber trilogy.  The third book
is supposed to cover the year 948.  Check the geneologies in the
back to get an inkling of what that's going to be like.


-- 
             Beth Hlabse    eah4@po.CWRU.Edu     Assistant Sysop
                The Science Fiction and Fantasy Sig (GO SCIFI)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      And it harm none, do as you will.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: harsh@owlnet.rice.edu (Anish Harshad Masharani)
Subject: Brust, P.J.F., and Cat's Laughing 
Organization: Rice University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:18:34 GMT

Have any of you heard anything by Cat's Laughing?
It's a group that is supposedly made up of Stephen Brust, Emma Bull, and some
other folks.

Also, does anyone know what P.J.F. stands for at the end of Brust's name
-- 
Both God and the government watch over us constantly,
	but we don't pay God taxes.

					The King of Fools
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: mirage@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dean Joseph Sanvitale)
Subject: Search Help
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 23:56:46 GMT

Can anyone help me find some books with themes relating to other worlds
that are right under our noses, perceptually and physically (i.e. PHIL DICK).

				Thanx 
					mirage
From: tom@HAN.Paramax.COM (Tom Jewell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Ecologies Wanted
Date: 18 Nov 92 14:12:35 GMT
Originator: tom@hpwisf1.han.paramax.com

I'm looking for titles of books that have detailed non-Earth
ecologies. David Gerrold's "War Against the Chthor" series
has quite a detailed one, including bugs, scavengers,
herbivores, carnivores, etc.

Can anyone recommend another source where a complete
ecosystem is described?

What I'm NOT looking for is "this planet had a cool monster"
(or whatever), I'm looking for a whole system.

Thanks in Advance,

Tom Jewell
tom@han.paramax.com

-- 
Tom Jewell

tom@han.paramax.com
From: Beth.Friedman@p5.f341.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Beth Friedman)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Looking for short story; spoilers, I suppose
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 15:24:16 -0600

 F>  Two children meet a strange little boy who teaches 
 F> them how to fly.  One day one of the kids is showing 
 F> off at school, and begins flying on (or rather, off) 
 F> the playground.  The other kids want to learn to fly, 
 F> and the strange little boy teaches them. One day a 
 F> teacher catches the kids flying, and instead of getting 
 F> mad, just watches with utter longing.  The strange 
 F> little boy offers to try to teach her to fly, but she 
 F> says she's too old and wishes that he'd been there when 
 F> she was little.  In the end of the story, the little 
 F> boy goes away.

It's a short children's novel by Penelope Farmer entitled THE SUMMER OF THE
BIRDS.  She has another book that I like better, CHARLOTTE SOMETIMES. 

 * Origin: Beth's Point: Minneapolis, MN (1:282/341.5)
From: jkusters@zeus.calpoly.edu (Chrome Jester)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Amber questoin:  Could Oberon still be alive?
Date: 18 Nov 92 07:17:23 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo

Okay, I've read the first set of Amber books a few times, and I have a
question that I was hoping someone could shed some light on.  Could Oberon
still be alive?  Could he have made a deal with Dworkin and staged a phoney
funeral?  Could Brand have actually lied about seeing Dad die?  (As if that
would be any surprise?)  The question arises from some thoughts I've had
towards a Amber Role-Playing campaign I'm working on...

Any answers (posted or e-mail) will be very much appreciated.

Thanks,
JOhn.
-- 
/-John A Kusters, jr.--------------------------------------------------- ______
| jkusters@ares.calpoly.edu   b0- f- w g- s-- r p++                      \    /
Silence keeps us all in darkness, We can't change things overnight;       \  /
But we can shed a little light, Be Political not Polite! -Romanovsky & Phillips
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dcs@neutron.chem.yale.edu (Dave Schweisguth)
Subject: Re: Why Hard SF Should Be Character-Oriented (was Re: Diamond-hard SF)
Organization: Yale University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:47:35 GMT

James Eugene Alloway (cg533@cleveland.Freenet.Edu) wrote:
: I not only agree with Mr. Yamaguchi, I am rather disappointed in a purely
: technological interest in SF. [snip] I feel that learning about technology
: or reading sf is enjoyable and enlightening when people are involved. Sure,
: there is some "oh, neat" feelings when I learn a new tech, but I always
: ask myself, "How will this affect me and those around me. Or my society."

Perhaps this discussion is about the extent to which one likes an author, as
opposed to oneself, to work out the human consequences of SFnal technology.
I'm content with either good story or tech which is so compelling as to imply
the story itself, or rather I'm content with a wide range of proportions
between the two. Of course 1:0 isn't _science_ fiction and 0:1 isn't fiction.

Note that all this is completely orthogonal to Sturgeon's Law.

Cheers,

--
| Dave Schweisguth   Yale MB&B & Chemistry   Net: dcs@neutron.chem.yale.edu |
| Lab phone: 203-432-5208     Fax: 203-432-6144    Home phone: 203-624-3866 |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: doom@elaine6.Stanford.EDU (Joseph Brenner)
Subject: Algis Budrys' HARD LANDING     (spoilers?)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University
Date: 18 Nov 92 01:02:42


I had high hopes for Budrys latest novel (which I read in
the October/November 1992 issue of Fantasy & Science
Fiction), but I don't think I get the point.

This is not to say that it's a bad book... Budrys has
written some excellent books where the point may not be
obvious (for example, _The Amsirs and the Iron Thorn_).

So what might he be up to this time?  One thing: he's
rationalizing away the standard UFO scenario.  You know how
a lot of skeptical types (like myself) will sometimes argue
that the claims of the UFO fanatics are crazy on the face of
it, because there's no reason for an alien race to act that
way?  Well, Budrys tries to explain why they might, and he
doesn't do so bad a job.

I can't say I entirely believe in his crew of aliens -- they
seem too much like the classic pulp story concept of a
spaceship crew.  They're all male, there's a ship's
chaplain, etc.  But then, it could be that that's the idea,
this is one more absurdity Budrys wanted to make credible.
And I guess they're at least not incredible.

There's another thing: the premises of Budrys story
interlock with our recent history in some odd ways, so that
some current events (the rise of certain politicians, the
advent of Adidas shoes and so on) are "explained" in a
different way than we would.  So he might be interested in
alternate views of history... 

But anyway, there's this small crew performing one of their
infrequent visits to our planet.  They develop some engine
trouble and they crash.  Our ship-wrecked crew of aliens
actually has a strict code about what they're supposed to do
when they crash, which is to split up and go into hiding,
and more or less forget about any rescue.

And _this_ is what I think Budrys really wanted to write
about: you have four aliens stuck in what to them is a
primitive, strange place, and they have to adapt to it, they
have to find ways of living there.  And each of them reacts
differently, and I guess this illustrates something, but I
don't exactly see the structure to it...  one of them is a
lover, one's a killer, one is power-hungry, and one finds no
way to cope at all.  Or maybe these are the wrong labels?
Maybe the Power-Hungry is better termed a Schemer, maybe the
Killer is really just the Expedient...

So what is Budrys really trying to say?  Why did he select
these four characters?  Are they supposed to exhaustively
demonstrate the only ways of being?
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Brust, P.J.F., and Cat's Laughing
Date: 20 Nov 1992 23:23:39 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <By172z.7o4@rice.edu> harsh@owlnet.rice.edu (Anish Harshad Masharani) writes:
>Have any of you heard anything by Cat's Laughing?
>It's a group that is supposedly made up of Stephen Brust, Emma Bull, and some
>other folks.

As in rock group.  I believe there's mention of it in the back of some
of Bull's books (Bone Dance, for instance), with instructions on how to
send away for tapes.

>Also, does anyone know what P.J.F. stands for at the end of Brust's name

"Pre-Joycean Fellowship."  It's a (not terribly serious) name for this
group of Mpls writers.  Name's modeled on the Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood,
a bunch of nineteenth-century painters who wanted to paint like
Botticelli.  The PJF presumably want to write in coherent English
sentences using real vocabulary in such a way as to be understood,
and I'll drink to that....
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: mirage@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dean Joseph Sanvitale)
Subject: The best sf story ever
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 04:49:19 GMT

The best sf story ever written, or at least one of the best, in my opinion
was PRESS ENTER which appeasr in Wolfheim's 1984 anthology.  I'm a CS major
and yet, after reading this computer horror tale, I was afraid or my once
friendly MAC for a week.  Read it, but BEWARE

			mirage@leland.stanford.edu
From: pnh@panix.com (Patrick Nielsen Hayden)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Brust, P.J.F., and Cats Laughing
Date: 22 Nov 92 18:35:34 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

Cats Laughing went out of business for a while, but appear to have
reformed on at least an occasional basis.  They played at Minicon
last spring, and sounded (to my ears) tighter than they'd ever been
before, live.  Bill Colsher, however, has left permanently.

The first album, CATS LAUGHING, is out of print; it's been replaced
by a remastered version entitled REISSUE, available from Steeldragon.
It's a serious improvement, though still nowhere near as good as the
second album.

The last time I talked to Steve about it he was hot to get the Cats
to record the music in his & Megan Lindholm's THE GYPSY.  Sounds good
to me.

--------
Patrick Nielsen Hayden
pnh@panix.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Subject: Re: The Wheel of Time Series
Keywords: Spoilers
Organization: University of Kentucky, USA. -5 GMT
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 03:49:17 GMT

harrity@sumax.seattleu.edu (Zak) writes:

>In article <mlebrun.5@bss2.umd.edu> mlebrun@bss2.umd.edu (Mike Lebrun) writes:

>>I know who Luc is, but I cannot seem to unearth the identy of Isam.  Any 
>>help out there?

>Isam was the son of that Malkieri woman responsible (at least partly) for
>it's downfall to the Shadow.  What was her name?  Began with a B...  ???

>Anyways, all this business of smushing people together is all well and
>good, to an extent.  I mean, it's at least feasible for Mordeth and Fain
>to become one...and even for Mat and his Menethereni ancestor... but
>c'mon, for crying out loud, how's Jordan going to justify merging Luc and
>Isam?  If that's even the case....

>Are we to believe that Luc was a darkfriend?  Or was he turned to the
>Shadow after his capture in the Blight?  (Then again, if he were turned to
>the Shadow against his will it would mean he could channel, and there'd be
>another problem altogether to deal with...) 

Actually, since Isam's mother was turned to the dark, since she ran with him,
I would say he could have easily been turned to the dark also.     

Fain seems to have been changed by the taint of Mordeth. If Maichin Shaim<sp.
the Black Wind> feels akin to Fain, then I believe he has evolved into 
something darker. A creature of Shai'tan and Shador Logoth. He is seeking
the destruction of all.

Mat appears to be a reincarnation of the ancient king of Manetherean<I really
need a book handy to catch all these spellings>
Since Rand is Lews Therin Telemon reborn, so is Mat reborn. Even the dead
heros mentioned they always come back.

Also, I thought Tigraine, former Daughter Heir to Andor, was Rand's mother.
She disappeared for no reason, a woman showed up to become a Mistress of
the Shield, and on page 373 of _The Dragon Reborn_, Elayne mentioned Rand
sort of looked like a cross between an Aiel and Tigraine. Also, I don't
believe the Madness will hit Rand any time soon. When he was trying to use
a portal stone to get to Falme, he saw his "alternate" lives. They all
seemed to show the rotting disease in stage, with him sane, before he died.
I think he will either burn himself out channeling to fight the Dark One,
burn the taint off Saidar, or he will die in the Last Battle.

Any other ideas?

>--
>Daniel John Kelly-Harrity ---------| |--------- "Sooner spit in a 
>Seattle University ----------------| |---------  Wolf's Eye,
>Seattle, Washington ---------------| |---------  than cross an
>USA 98122 -------------------------| |---------  Aes Sedai."

>  "Welcome to All Things Scottish...If it's not Scottish, It's *CRAP*!"


Steve
From: cs_d637@ceres (Paul Neve)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Foundation and Nemesis?
Date: 16 Nov 1992 12:52:34 GMT
Organization: Kingston University
NNTP-Posting-Host: ceres.kingston.ac.uk
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

I've just reread Nemesis...

Are there any other Asimov fans out there who have any idea whether he
intended to link Nemesis with the Foundation/Robot/Empire/just about
everything else series? The Ethyro people look as if they were going to
evolve into the Spacers, and the line at the end of the book, "who could
make sense of a galaxy of chaos" (or something) sounds like he had ol'
Hari Seldon when he wrote this...

Ideas, anyone...?
..PN...


Email (INTERNET): cs_d637@uk.ac.king.ceres
-------------------------------------+-------------------------------------
This post is shareware. If you read  | "Pleased to meet you, Mr. Worf. 
it and like it you are required to   | I know a good cure for space mumps."
send me 5 pounds registration fee.   |      (Kryten, upon meeting Lt. Worf)
-------------------------------------+-------------------------------------
                                        Paul "Insanity is an art form" Neve
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: morlan@afit.af.mil (Bruce W. Morlan)
Subject: A Diamond-Hard SF story
Summary: The ultimate diamond-hard SF story.
Organization: Air Force Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:56:49 GMT

Submitted for your disapproval:


               1.999
      E = M * C


Short, succinct, no messy human characters.

Fiction falls in a spectrum, I like my SF hard, but am also interested
in the people in the story.  In terms of personal taste, I prefer to not
find a lot of psychobabble in my books, because that branch of
"engineering" (in the sense of engineering as applied science) is not as
credible _to_me_.  For examples, I would also point out Crichton (SP?),
who's books include "Andromeda Strain" and "Jurassic Park", both of
which were good mixes of technology, science, and people.  The good guys
were never perfect, the bad guys were never ultimately evil.  IMNSHO.
-- 
Bruce W. Morlan, Major, USAF             Air Force Institute of Technology
Dept. Department Head                    AFIT/ENC
Department of Mathematics                WPAFB  OH  45433
From: higgins@fnalc.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Edward E. Smith, Ph.D?
Date: 18 Nov 92 20:19:29 -0600
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: fnalc.fnal.gov

In article <1edveaINN6go@agate.berkeley.edu>, cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu () writes:
> In article <1992Nov18.162922.14196@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> fong_jh@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Julian H Fong) writes:
>>	A quick question: In what subject did E. E. "Doc" Smith get his
>>doctorate?
> 
> Chemistry.  He spent most of his working life developing new and better
> baking powders for (I think) Nabisco.

Not Nabisco.  He was a food chemist for a doughnut-mix company in Jackson,
Michigan for most of the Forties and Fifties.  Don't know what
contributions he made, don't know the name of the company.  Before
"settling down" he worked a lot of jobs, including miner and
lumberjack, if memory serves.

     O~~*           /_) ' / /   /_/ '  ,   ,  ' ,_  _           \|/
   - ~ -~~~~~~~~~~~/_) / / /   / / / (_) (_) / / / _\~~~~~~~~~~~zap!
 /       \                          (_) (_)                    / | \
 |       |     Bill Higgins   Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
 \       /     Bitnet:     HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET
   -   -       Internet:  HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV
     ~         SPAN/Hepnet:      43011::HIGGINS 
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:15187 rec.arts.books:20566
From: eabu202@orion.oac.uci.edu (Virany Margaret Kreng)
Subject: Gregory Benford
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.books
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 23 Nov 92 22:18:44 GMT

Hi everybody...

I'm just curious.  Are there any Gregory Benford fans out there?  Or
anyone who's at least read his books?  I was just interested to see
if he's a real big name in SF books or whatever.  Thanx.  Cool guy.
Great professor.

Virany
eabu202@orion.oac.uci.edu

************************************************************
* "I don't want to sell anything, buy anything, or process *
* anything as a career.  I don't want to sell anything     *
* bought or processed; or buy anything sold or processed;  *
* or process anything sold, bought, or processed; or       *
* repair anything sold, bought, or processed.  My father's *
* in the army.  He wanted me to join, but I can't work for *
* that corporation.  So what I've been doing lately is     *
* kickboxing."       -- John Cusack, SAY ANYTHING          *
************************************************************
 

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: JLINTHI1@ua1vm.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Guy Kay's _Song For Arbonne_:  US release date?
Organization: The University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:09:23 GMT

    If I remember correctly, I have already seen the Kay's "Song of
Arbonne at a convention. One of the book dealers had a copy. I do
not remember whether it was in hardback or paperback, though. Might
check with your local bookstore for better information though.
          Yours,
             Julia E. Linthicum
             Internet: jlinthi1@ua1vm.ua.edu