HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cep@taligent.com (Christophe Pettus)
Subject: Re: Car Loan
Organization: Taligent, a little subsidiary of two really big companies.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 18:47:30 GMT

In article <8190125@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> sjb@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Stuart Bobb) writes:
>Are you 100% sure about this?  I am under the impression that my own 401K
>loan is being repaid with _after_ tax dollars.

That's correct; only withheld salary contributions are contributed on
a pre-tax basis (and 401(k) contributions are only pre-income tax;
FICA and Medicare are still figured on the full salary amount).

>It seems like this is too big a loop-hole to have been overlooked!

It wasn't, unfortunately.

>Thus it seems to me that you will have been taxed _twice_ on some small part
>of the money in the account since you can no longer deduct the interest on
>the 401K loan.

This is true; it raises the effective interest rate of the loan.

>But maybe this all balances out since by paying interest on a 401K loan, you
>can effectively get more money into your 401K (and thus defer more taxes on
>your growing investment) than somebody else without a loan since your
>contribution maximum is really (MAX + interest on outstanding loans).

Doing some back-of-the-envelope calculations, it doesn't appear to cost
very much (the double taxation on interest), but it depends on so many
variable that it is quite hard to tell.
--
-- Christophe

"He presented it with a length of string, and then passed on to the
Statue of Corrupted Endevour, there to await the arrival of autumn."
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: tsp@controls.ccd.harris.com (Timothy S. Pillsbury)
Subject: Re: Request for FAQ
Originator: tsp@sp1
Organization: Harris Corp.
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 22:13:20 GMT


In article <2AC53EBD.12099@ics.uci.edu>, davida@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (David A. Andersen) writes:
|> 
|> >I just started this newsgroup. Could the archive-site please
|> >send me a FAQ; by email please to avoid using bandwidth. Thanks.
|> 
|> [stealing someone else's top lines]
|> 
|> Ditto in my direction too please!
|> 
|> 
|> David Andersen
|> UC Irvine
|> 

Me too please.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Pillsbury          Internet:  tsp@ccd.harris.com
                          uunet:  uunet!ccd.harris.com!timothy.pillsbury
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: milo@cbnews.cb.att.com (guy.f.klose)
Subject: Re: Hulbert (Japan no more?)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: bl
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 13:25:19 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.233841.9751@pony.Ingres.COM>, rion@Ingres.COM (Rion Cassidy (x3357) OGT) writes:
> It seems a little strange to me that the best way to pick a financial 
> newsletter is to subscribe to another newsletter that rates financial
> newsletters!  Next thing we know there will be a newsletter that rates
> newsletters like Hulbert!  How many levels deep will it get?
> 
> It seems analogous to hiring one attorney to help you find one that will
> really represent you.

I don't think it's strange at all!  Since I've subscribed to a newsletter,
I've been inundated with sample issues of other newsletters...and how am
I supposed to know which ones print advice worth the paper they are printed
on?  I certainly can't base my decision on the "glitziness" of the sample
issue, or the outrageous claims they make in their blurbs.  Hulbert's
ranking, as another net.person has pointed out, are often misquoted...
on purpose.

It's rather interesting...I do subscribe to Fidelity Monitor, which is one
of Hulbert's top picks for long-term performance.  It is one of the most
"non-glitzy" newsletters I've seen.  It pales in comparison to some of the
other ones I've seen...but it's model portfolios, over the longer-term, have
consistently out-performed most other newsletters (there must be hundreds
of others).  BTW, I chose Fidelity Monitor because it deals specifically
with Fidelity, not because I was chasing "top performers".

Another thought...my local library subscribes to a couple of newsletters,
one of which is Donohue's newsletter.  When I looked up the ranking of his
newsletter in the Hulbert newsletter, I saw that Donohue doesn't do all that
hot, compared to some of the standard indices.  So why follow his advice?
Why should my local library subscribe to that newsletter in particular?
Granted, Donohue (my apologies if his name is spelled wrong) may print
something of value for certain people, but the way Hulbert sees it, his
"model portfolio" choices are sub-par.  Far more valuable if my library
would subscribe to Hulbert instead of Donohue.

A wrong way to use Hulbert's newsletter would be to chase the top-performing
newsletter every time the rankings change.  The right way, as I see it,
would be to decide what kind of advice you're looking for, pick the specific
letters that would give you that advice, and then use Hulbert to figure
out which newsletters are the best choices.

A last note to Boston-area readers:  I've searched most of the local
libraries, including the Boston Public Library and MIT's Sloan School
Library, and none of them carry the Hulbert Financial Digest.  Any
pointers to a local library that does would be greatly appreciated.

Guy
-- 
Guy Klose
milo@mvuxi.att.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: rravi@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (ramesh.ravi)
Subject: mini-crash in the wallstreet
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:19:51 GMT
Keywords: Dow down about 100 points

Dow is down about 100 points at 11:15 AM. 


Ramesh Ravi
ramesh@hugo.att.com
From: chedley@carthago.intel.com (CHEDLEY_AOURIRI)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: The end of media generated recession is close.
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:00:47 GMT
Reply-To: chedley@carthago.intel.com (CHEDLEY_AOURIRI)
Organization: Intel-Corp,_Hillsboro,_Oregon

In article <sehari.718236805@vincent1.iastate.edu>, sehari@iastate.edu (Babak Sehari) writes:
|> ---
|> Therefore, we should expect a huge market gain next year.  However, the 
|> question is when does it start this time. Second half of Dec. or sometime
|> in Nov.?  My own opinion is this time market start to pick up earlier, due
|> to huge short volume out there and the fact that most money managers are
|> out of market now, and have huge cash holdings.
|> 
|> What is your opinion?  Where is the best place to put money to get the most
|> out of this up turn?
|> 
|>                          With highest regards,
|>                               Babak   Sehari.

Well, this Monday morning (10/5/92) the stock market dropped over 120 points.
Rumor has it that the Federal Reserve Bank (FED) intervened again on the index 
futures market to prop up the stock market and prevent a pre-elections crash.
But after the elections, all bets are off, especially if Governor Clinton wins 
and Greenspan realizes that he's not going to stay at the FED anyway.

So, right now, the best place to put your money is probably in CASH,
or on the SHORT side of the stock market. Long term index put options 
are also attractive!!!

-- 
..CHEDLEY..
..!{uunet|tektronix|ogicse}!littlei!chedley    chedley@carthago.intel.com     
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Standard Disclaim: The above statements and opinions are strictly mine,
and do not represent any company or organization's position.
......................................................................

Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: rion@Ingres.COM (Rion Cassidy (x3357) OGT)
Subject: Re: Hulbert (Japan no more?)
Reply-To: rion@Ingres.COM 
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:23:27 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.184916.29986@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> dbk@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu (Don Katz) writes:
>In article <1992Sep28.233841.9751@pony.Ingres.COM> rion@Ingres.COM  writes:
>>It seems a little strange to me that the best way to pick a financial 
>>newsletter is to subscribe to another newsletter that rates financial
>>newsletters!  Next thing we know there will be a newsletter that rates
>>newsletters like Hulbert!  How many levels deep will it get?
>>
>>It seems analogous to hiring one attorney to help you find one that will
>>really represent you.
>
>If you need a really good criminal lawyer, would it be so crazy to
>hire an general practice attorney to find the person with the best record and
>reputation and arrange for her to take your case?
>
>When you buy a car, do you take a look at Consumer Reports to find out
>what they think the best cars are?
>

I might look at Consumer Reports.   The question is: do you need another
magazine/newsletter to tell you to read Consumer Reports vs. Consumer Digest?

Rion


Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: geopi@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (george.p.cotsonas)
Subject: Re: Inheritance exemption to be reduced to $200K??!!
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 22:22:31 GMT
Summary: what is the legality of this ???

In article <1992Sep25.151942.9246@microsoft.com>, philco@microsoft.com (Phillip Cooper) writes:
> 
> In any event, I surely hope you are not counting on any benefits from
> the FICA you are now paying.  It won't be there when you retire. Period.
> There is no way that this pyramid scheme can possibly continue for more
> than another 10-20 years.

Anybody ever sued the government about this abominable chicanery?

I'm sick of this tax being masqueraded as "social security",
and haven't for a decade or so believed there would be any $$
for my retirement, after the retired/working ratio becomes
too unbalanced in the near future...
-- 
George P. Cotsonas
AT&T BL/CPL
att!hocpa!geopi
From: McAldon International Inc. <mcaldon@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:08 PDT
Subject: Re: Setting up MF account for unborn ch
Nf-ID: #R:1992Sep28.145358.19605@schbbs.mo:-1963290967:cdp:1426500268:000:1404
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!mcaldon    Sep 28 21:08:00 1992


|    Now comes the scenario of what I am thinking:  For the next several
|months until baby is born and social security number is issued I just
|place $$ into my own accounts.  Yeah, I'll pay the taxes on the income
|until then, but not much.  But, after baby is born and has been issued
|a SSN, open up an account in the child's name and manage it as guardian.
|
|    Does this sound right?  Any other ideas?  I basically want the fund
|available for the use of the child at my discretion.  After year 'X' (18, 21,
|etc) I would allow freedom of access to a point.  Effectively, I want to set
|this investment aside for the child's needs, but not necessarily whenever
|(or for whatever) the child wants a new toy.  I'm sure many of you have done
|similar things.

First I went the UGMA route, but realized it would expire when the kid
was 18, which is too early IMHO.  So I wrote a trust myself, swiping
most of the boilerplate, arranging for expiration at age 25.  It worked
fine, and was never questioned.  You don't need an SS# for your child to
do this; the trust gets its own Tax ID#.       DMcKenzie
                           
|                        |     "Nobody ever went broke from     |    
|    mcaldon@igc.org     |   underestimating the intelligence   |
|                        | of the American public."  HL Mencken |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
From: nfs@dynastar (Norbert Schlenker)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Brokerage stocks?
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:20:44 GMT
Organization: Princeton University, Dept. of Computer Science
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1426500271@igc.apc.org> mcaldon@igc.apc.org (McAldon International Inc.) writes:
>
>Of course the brokers will make money on people
>leaving the markets.

Actually, they don't make any money.  What happens in a bear market is
that people hold their positions in the hope that they can get out at
a profit.  They also stop buying anything new, since they are so far
under water on their portfolios.  Volume declines, brokers take long
lunches, the market just keeps going down.  The price of Merrill Lynch
falls.

>I suppose it's too much to ask that some of these
>new investors learn how to short:-(

It's too much to ask.

Norbert
nfs@cs.princeton.edu
From: 6500amd@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Amitav Das)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: deep discount brokers
Date: 5 Oct 92 16:18:18 GMT
Distribution: misc



It could be a repeat request but I'd deeply appreciate any opinions about deep
discount brokers. My main questions are:

  1. Are they fast in executing your order, specially during a busy day? Would they
     be as effective as full service brokers when you want fast sale when everyone
     else is also trying to sell too?
  2. Do they send you a confirmation report same day reporting the sale/buy price?
  3. Do they handle bonds/Govt investments?
  4. Do you have to put money in their mmkt account and buy something only if you
     have the money in that account or can you call and tell them to buy something
     and then send the money (within a fixed number of days) ?
  5. Can you have your own agent/broker or do you deal with whoever available? Do you
     usually have to listen a minute or two of elevator music before someone actually
     talk to you?


I am dealing with a full service broker now but are not happy with the commision rates but
I also do not want to loose any efficiency.

I'd appreciate if you could offer your suggestions based on your experience.

Also any info on Divident Reinvestment Plans would be highly appreciated. Do any of you
participate/set up such plans? What are the companies who offer such plans at present?

Please send email to das@kane.ucsb.edu


Thanks in advance.

...Amitav Das.
Newsgroups: misc.invest,misc.taxes
From: shoaf@helix.nih.gov (Susan E. Shoaf)
Subject: Re: FAQ -- Wash Sale Rule
Followup-To: shoaf@clinpharm.niaaa.nih.gov
Organization: (National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD)
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 13:01:10 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.232306.15244@tandem.com> pearson_steven@tandem.com (Steven R. Pearson) writes:
>
>Hi, all.
>  In partial response to recent requests for FAQs on misc.invest, here is the one I am
>    rest of good stuff deleted.

My only comment is to reformat your document into a line width that fits on one
line!  Makes reading really difficult.

Susan
I'd post to you direct but I can't mail to .com sites :-(



Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: england@helix.nih.gov (Mad Vlad)
Subject: Options-Fact of Fantasy???
Followup-To: misc.invest
Organization: Nat'l Inst of Health
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:25:38 GMT

Dear Misc Invest Netters,
       I am curious to know if anybody has ever heard of the newsletter/
advisory service run by Bernie Schaeffer out of Cincinnati called the      
       
Options Advisor?  Does he have as good a track record as he claims?  Any
input concerning this newsletter would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.
                           MAD VLAD......    
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re:  Effects of the U.S. Debt
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 92 19:48:51 CDT
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

greg@cherokee.b32b.ingr.com (Greg Moritz) writes:
>    The latest figures that I saw for the distribution of income
>    in the US was:
> 
>        41% for the top  20% of the population
>        25% for the next 20% of the population
>        20% for the next 20% of the population
>        12% for the next 20% of the population
>         5% for the next 20% of the population
        -----
         103%

Hmmmm.... something about this just bothers me.

Gary Heston, at home....
gary@cdthq.uucp
From: dodson@convex.COM (Dave Dodson)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: What if you don't have a new 401k in 60 days?
Date: 28 Sep 92 15:23:47 GMT
Reply-To: dodson@convex.COM (Dave Dodson)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Originator: dodson@bach.convex.com
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <23852@sybase.sybase.com> coop@sybase.com (John Cooper) writes:
>Concerning the various posts recently about the new tax withholding on 401k
>payouts:
>
>What happens if you change employers, but your new employer requires more than
>60 days with the company before you can enter its 401k plan?  Or you quit or
>are fired from an employer, and it takes more than 60 days to get a new job?
>Does one have the option of simply leaving one's funds in the 401k of the
>former employer?  I realize you can't contribute anything for awhile, but are
>there any restrictions against the funds staying put and accumulating interest
>and dividends?

If you quit or lose your job and your old employer's plan does not permit
you to leave them in its plan, the safe thing to do with your 401(k) funds
is to move them into a new Rollover IRA at your favorite bank, mutual fund,
etc.  Later on, if you have not comingled other IRA funds with that account,
you can move the balance to your new company's 401(k) if that is what you
want to do.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave Dodson		                             dodson@convex.COM
Convex Computer Corporation      Richardson, Texas      (214) 497-4234
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: kendall@adobe.com (Janice Kendall)
Subject: Re: The end of media generated recession is close.
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 02:57:10 GMT

In article <1992Oct05.003134.28445@rat.csc.calpoly.edu> rteasdal@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Rusty) writes:
>In article <sehari.718236805@vincent1.iastate.edu> sehari@iastate.edu (Babak Sehari) writes:
>>---
>>Even though, there are a lot of pessimism out there; however, I believe
>>no mater who wins the election, this media generated recession will be over
>>soon after the election.  People are sick and tired of hearing the negatively
>>presented news, and most people have stopped listening to the media. if major 
>>networks try still to push the negatively presented news, their rating would
>>go down the drain.
>>
>
>	Oh, goodness! _That's_ who is responsible for all those closed
>businesses I was driving by this afternoon - the media! Why, I should
>have guessed it from the very start. And here I'd been hoodwinked into
>thinking that it was something so mundane as a huge debt overhang from
>the Splurge Decades of the Eighties, when federal, state, local and
>individual debt loads all tripled. No, you're right, it must be Dan
>Rather and Peter Jennings who are personally at fault. Gracious, I
>wouldn't put it past them to have been placing subliminal messages
>in their broadcasts to make us all feel unduly gloomy! Perhaps they're
>even going so far as to sneak into our homes at night, and whisper
>unemployment statistics in our defenseless ears! Something must be
>done about this at once!
> 
>>Therefore, we should expect a huge market gain next year.  
>
>
>	Impeccably reasoned. Maybe if we could just (cf. Spiro Agnew)
>get the Evil Media Manipulators (an earlier synonym for Cultural Elite)
>to stop telling us how bad everything is, and tell us some Good News,
>larded about heavily with some Old Time Family Values, then the big bad
>recession would just go away, like the media generated phantasm it was
>to begin with.
>
>	I seem to be a little unclear on the concept. Excuse me.
>
>
>
>-- 
>||||||||   Russ Teasdale -- rteasdal@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU  --  (Rusty)  ||||||||
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Gentlemen, if we do not succeed, then we run the risk of failure." - D. Quayle
>

 <sarcasm on>
 It worked for Reagan!  He was sure able to take the whole country into
 denial while he took us into debt...  In fact, many people believe the
 country was doing great! while we were becoming a major debtor nation.
 <sarcasm off>
 
 Aside from my obviously biased comment above, question:  
   *Is* Reagan responsible for the economic policy which drowned
   us in debt, or was it the democratic congress?  I've heard it
   was Reagan who pushed for tax credits to businesses for debt.
   
 Janice Kendall    kendall@adobe.com    ...!{decwrl|sun}!adobe!kendall

        "Giving power and money to the government is like giving 
         whiskey and car keys to teenage boys."  

		- P.J. O'Rourke, former gulf war correspondant, summing
		up what he learned during two years of research on how
		our government functions.
From: dxper@dtek.chalmers.se (Per Anders Olausson)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: How can anyone take CNN seriously?
Keywords: CNN SWEDEN SILENCE
Date: 30 Sep 92 12:08:01 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg Sweden


  Thuesday Sep 29th:

	CNN yet again goes out with their totally insane devaluation rumours about
	the Swedish currency.

  Wednesday Sep 30th Night:

	Swedish politicians jointly make plan nr 2 which is two days of vacation
	removed for everybody, Sales tax to remain at 25%, rise of Food Sales Tax
	from 18% to 21% and employers tax down by 5%

  Wednesday Sep 30th 0900

	Swedish Central bank cuts interest from 40% to 24%

  Wednesday Sep 30th 12:58

	Swedish 6 month bills interests down 4% from 21% to 17%
	Foreign investors rushing to invest in interest bonds while they last
	The Swedish stockmarket up by 6%
	Swedish real estate and builders up by 20.89%
	Swedish Finance and Banks up 12%

  Why haven't I still anything from CNN about this?

  How can *anyone* take them serious? Are they actually that full of prestige
or do they have any interests in a devaluation of the Swedish currency?

pao




--
-------------------------------Andrew Olausson--------------------------------
--------------------------Unemployed Unix Specialist--------------------------
------------------------------pao@cd.chalmers.se------------------------------
-------------------------------pa-ola@proxxi.se-------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: dnmiller@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David Neal Miller)
Subject: Quicken 3.0 (Mac) for Sale
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 09:47:14 GMT

Quicken 3.0 for the Macintosh

A new copy of the latest version of what is arguably the best financial software
for the Mac, with registration card still blank.

I have opted to run Quicken 6.0 for IBM compatibles on my LC under PC emulation 
(it's s-l-o-w, but has the portfolio management feature lacking in the Mac 
version), which is why this newly-purchased package is for sale.

The discount houses charge about $45 (Mac Connection, Sept. Macworld price, $42 
plus $3 s/h). I'd be happy to sell it to you for a nonnegotiable $30, including 
postage.

David Neal Miller
miller.3@osu.edu
-- 
David Neal Miller

Internet: miller.3@osu.edu
Bitnet:   miller.3@ohstmail
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: dkulkarn@handel.helios.nd.edu (Dinesh Kulkarni)
Subject: Discount or Premium
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 01:48:07 GMT

How can one figure out the discount/premium for a closed end fund from the
daily tables in newspapers ?  Are there specific newspapers (IBD, ...)
that carry this info. on a daily/weekly basis ?

Thanks.

Dinesh


Newsgroups: misc.invest