HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
X-Envelope-to: CHRISTIA%ASUACAD.bitnet@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 10:37:00 CST
From:         "dr. Daniel Edward Taylor" <AUTENRKL@SLUVCA.SLU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Benny Hinn/fathers
X-To:         CHRISTIA%ASUACAD.bitnet@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu

> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:51:18 SAT
> From: zane of dhahran <FACN34B%SAUPM00.bitnet@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu>
> Subject: Benny Hinn/fathers
>
> P.S. John was a Baptist too.                  Irini pasi, Zane.

    Yes, but JESUS was a Nazarene. ;-)

    I just had to do it. (i'm one also)

dr. Daniel Edward Taylor
-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-
kevin autenrieth            U N D E R   T H E   G A Z E   O F   G O D
autenrkl@sluvca.slu.edu
-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-
 At the foot of the Cross -- Clouds, rain, fire -- on glassHouse records
                                 get it!
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 11:31:24 CDT
From:         CCCHRIS@MIZZOU1.BITNET
Subject:      Prayer request

A co-worker of mine is under extreme stress lately.  On top of managing the
renovation and installation of a couple of new lab sites here on campus, she
recently got news that her daughter requires surgery - again.  The little
girl has some rare disorder, and the long and short of it is that she has
a non-malignant tumor on the skull that must be removed.  This is her second
such operation in the past 6 months or so.
Please keep her (Lindsay), her parents and family in your prayers as they
face these difficult times.  Thank you.

Chris Reed
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Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 09:21:09 -0700
From:         MARK DRAKE <DRAKE@ASUCHM.LA.ASU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Homosexuality
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

>To me it
>  would seem as if the Homosexual would ask God to rid them of the desires
>  that he/she has.  God is not into only changing behavior, but He is also
>  into changing hearts.

>Carl-------+

	Does God remove the desire for alcohol from all people who at one time
were addicted to alcohol?  Or does God remove the desire for a cigarette from
all people who were addicted to cigarettes?  No.  Sometimes God doesn't remove
weakness from people.  I think Paul talks about that....

Mark
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 10:29:08 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Mary & colour blue
              13 Aug 1992 10:35:00 GMT from
              <Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK>

Carol L:

So, is the "color of Mary" thing more of an art thing than a theology
thing?

Love INC,
         --Kerry (just wondering about things today)
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Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 03:46:52 EDT
From:         Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Alleged changes in Catholic doctrine (Was something else

Jason,

You have been misinformed.  The Catholic Church never taught offi-
cially that the Earth is the center of the universe.

The only thing the Catholic Church did to Copernicus was ordain him.
Perhaps you are thinking of Galileo, but the worst that happened to
him is that when he was an old man he was sentenced to house arrest
in an Italian villa.  No informed Catholic claims that Church author-
ities acted wisely in the Galileo case, but it was an administrative
and disciplinary matter.  No doctrinal definitions were involved.

Opinions of theologians have changed, but the defined doctrines of
the Catholic Church have never changed.

Marty Helgesen
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: BIBLE
Date: 18 Aug 92 09:08:56 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
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X-Acknowledge-To: <FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET>

Jesse,

     Thanks for your reply.  OK, I can understand your use of the term
absolute now.
     I have another question.  You say, "We must remember that until the
canon was collated at the end of the Apostolic era, Direct Revelation from
God was still extant and viable, due to the not yet THEN finished product."
     I know you really believe this to be true, and I really don't want to
argue with you about this, but I do want to understand where you got this
idea.  That is, where does the idea that direct revelation went out at the
moment the canon was "finished" come from?  Or who?
     Incidently, do you know this is somewhat like the Islamic position on
the Koran and direct revelation?  People start frothing at the mouth when
I mention that God lives in me and there is a direct and vital union with
the Living Prophet....  Which makes me wonder if maybe someone didn't borrow
these ideas from Islamic scholars when Spain was liberated (or lost - what-
ever your perspective)...or something.  Just a wild guess, I would say it was
probably someone who wanted to justify breaking away from the Roman Church,
so came up with this idea to abbrogate R.C. authority... at least that would
be an expedient reason...
     You're a scholar so maybe you can give me a clear historical answer.
                                       Peace, Zane.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 10:00:00 EDT
From:         "Carl A. Lahetta" <U952020@RUTADMIN.BITNET>
Subject:      Rutgers Cuts 128 Administrators
X-To:         Politics List <politics@OHSTVMA.BITNET>

   Today was the day!  Rutgers announced to it's employees that 128
administrators were to be told to go home.  The state sut the University's
funding by 22 million and Rutgers was only able to come up with 15 million
through "creative accounting" measures.  THank God I still have my job :-)
Those who were laid off and have seniority will be able to "bump" others
with less seniority.  It is sad day on the Banks of the Ol' Raritan :-(

Carl--------------+
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 11:44:50 EDT
From:         Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Is the Bible Absolute Truth?

On 08/18/92 at 11:26:59 j.b. cormier said:
>With regards to this:

>For the word of God is living and active.  Sharper than any double-edged
>sword,
> it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow;  it judges
> the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.  -- Heb 4:12

>I still ask how can this argument count since over half the Bible as we
>know it wasn't written or accepted as Scripture at the time
>Hebrews was written?
That's where faith comes in.  We have to know that God did it his way.

>Jason
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 12:37:08 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: This won't win me any friends, but...

Dear Memo ;

Is not mediation equivalent to intercession?  Are not these two terms
synonomous?

Also, why honour Mary? Why not venerate Judas, one of Jesus' subsequent
brothers by Mary or one of His subsequent sisters?


Jesse Carnes
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: 75furlong@cuavax.dnet.cua.edu
Subject: Scouting
Organization: The Catholic University of America
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:34:12 GMT

In article <0F71CC5A697F000866@topaz.ucq.edu.au>,         Ken Diefenbach <DIEFENBAK@TOPAZ.UCQ.EDU.AU> writes:
> As a parent I must admit I would not send my kids out with a
> homosexual scoutmaster. I wouldn't send them out under a scoutmaster who
> displays a lot of other characteristics either - wrt sexual activities _or_not_.
> I may(?) be sounding judgemental, but my kids are very special to me.
> 
> Ken Diefenbach

Considering that, according to a study in England (I don't recall the exact
source, but American stats seem to agree) the vast majority of child molesters 
are heterosexual men (usually a relative), wouldn't you be more uneasy about 
sending your kids into the woods with a straight scoutmaster?

-Alison

Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: kilroy@gboro.glassboro.edu (Dr Nancy's Sweetie)
Subject: Lesser of Two Evils
Organization: Glassboro State College (Many Professors, No Waiting)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 06:59:44 GMT


Kerry Stephenson writes:

> If parents with Democrat values (or prochoice family values or whatever)
> want their kids to have condoms, let *them* buy them and give them to their
> kids.  [...]  ([Leave] the taxpayers' money and the government) out of it.

I think it is a mistake to assume that this has much to do with the two-party
system.  Having encountered both "Republicans for Choice" and "Catholics for
Choice" (presumably in the process of being excommunicated), I'm getting more
and more suspicious of the boxes we stick people in.

I personally tend to be fiscally `conservative', preferring a smaller federal
government take relatively little money.  On the other hand, I support strong
separation of church & state, and I tend to be `liberal' about many social
issues.  Neither party fits both descriptions (Paul Tsongas is a fiscally
conservative Democrat, which would have been ok), which is why I wanted to see
where Ross Perot was going.  I think we need a few more political parties, so
people who are liberal on some issues, but conservative on others, will get
some representation.  Anybody wanna help?


Anyway, Miss Stephenson brings up the interesting question of "Who decided to
distribute condoms in the first place?"  At best, it looks to me like a
`lesser of two evils' choice -- somebody figured it was better than having all
the kids die, since they are people and they are GOING to sin.  And while it
may cost money, the alternatively could cost a lot more.  But whose bright
idea was it, anyway?

In general, I'm not happy with "lesser of two evils" situations, but when you
live in a world with Original Sin there are times when there is no completely
good choice.  (As demonstrated by the alternatives we have next November when
it comes time to select a President.)  But somebody must have figured
distributing condoms was a good idea.  Do we know who?


Darren F Provine / kilroy@gboro.glassboro.edu
"Ask five economists and you'll get five different explanations (six if one
 went to Harvard)." -- Edgar R Fiedler
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:21:51 -0400
From:         "Toni J. Benner" <tjbenner@COLBY.EDU>
Subject: Re: update
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

Bernice, My heart goes out to you. My mother died of cancer 10 years  ago,
and I took care of her for the last few months. At first I prayed for
her to be healed, but she suffered so much, so I took my hands off of her.
I've heard it said that sometimes we hold them here. I'm not sure if
this is correct, but it wasn't long after I released her that she  died.
A short time before she died, she said that she could hear a gate opening,
and then she said that she wanted to go be with Jesus. I was sad at her
death, but glad also that she was no longer suffering and was with the
Lord. Praise  God! My prayers are with you.
Yours  in Christ,
Toni
From: spk@uk.ac.aber (Stephen Kingston)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Morris Cerullo
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:29:14 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., University of Wales at Aberystwyth.

Last sunday (16th) the BBC broadcast a programme called "Heart of the 
Matter" looking at the recent "Mission to London" led by Morris 
Cerullo and examining his extravagent claims that thousands were 
healed in each meeting.

The program was well produced, and seemed very balanced. The interesting 
conclusion was thus:

In the crusade Morris Cerullo claimed "Thousands of you will be healed
tonight".

Following the crusade 460 people claimed to have been healed.

Six weeks after the crusade Morris Cerullo was able to put forward 
12 names for closer medical scrutiny (he claimed he would put forward
these names within two weeks).

Of these twelve people only about 4 or 5 allowed access to records 
describing their condition before the crusade and a medical follow up
revealed that * none * of these were healed.

Meanwhile one person died because she stopped taking her medicine 
following the crusade, and all those who were filmed during the 
crusade testifying to healings were later advised (by their ministers 
mostly) not to talk to heart of the matter.

The program did carry two reports of genuine healings which actually 
occurred through prayer and laying on of hands in a small baptist 
fellowship (which went about its prayer in a much less emotional, and
much more reserved manner). 

It was thus seen that this particular "big gun" in charismatic healing 
circles could not produce any evidence whatsoever to back up his 
original claim that thousands would be healed.

Personally I am not surprised by these findings. I'm sure that similar 
findings would be true of many other "charismatic healers". My question 
is this:

Why do we allow this nonsense to continue within the church?

On a previous program, someone said of mr Cerullo - "It doesn't matter 
whether or not he is a fraud, the point is that God is working."

Now if someones ministry is not glorifying to God then he is a fraud 
and God will * not * work.

Personally I believe that Morris Cerullo's ministry is not glorifying 
to God.

Did anyone else see this programme? Has anyone else heard of Morris 
Cerullo? What do you think?


Stephen

-- 
Gweleis i rac neb nym gweles pop annwyl. ef diwyl yneges. Gweleis i pasc.
(I saw the one above all men,  he saw me;  he, the beloved of his people,
who fulfills his mission. I saw Easter.) "Yspeil Taliesin" ---Taliesin---
spk@uk.ac.aber --- spk%uk.ac.aber@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk --- Stephen Kingston
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:24:36 MST
From:         Madge McBurney <ISPMOM@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Christia and NetNews

Hello everyone,

I'm really busy with work related matters right now, but I do plan to
comment on this topic tonight (hopefully).  I appreciate everyone's
point of view on this matter, and I know that Steven will be interested
in this discussion as well.

Christia co-owner   Bitnet:   ispmom@asuacad
Madge McBurney      Internet: ispmom@asuvm.inre.asu.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: jeffries@iastate.edu (Anthony G Jeffries)
Subject: Re: My first sermon! Tonight!! ARRGH!
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 03:16:33 GMT

I'll be praying for you.

-- 
Anthony Glen Jeffries N0NRO               |------------------------|
N0NRO@N0AN.IA.USA.NA  (packet--ham radio) |-Iowa State University--|
jeffries@iastate.edu                      |-------Ames, Iowa-------|
tabl4@isuvax.iastate.edu                  |------------------------| 
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 10:26:25 -0700
From:         MARK DRAKE <DRAKE@ASUCHM.LA.ASU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Did JESUS respect beliefs?
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

>You cannot separate a person from their beliefs.  You have heard it said, "You
>are what you eat."  However, what is more relevant is "You are what you
>believe."

>Jesse Carnes


	I haven't followed this thread to closely, but I thought you were
amoung those saying that we are to respect people but not beliefs.  Now you say
that you can't separate people from their beliefs.

	Could you clarify you position?

Mark Drake
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Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:42:45 EDT
From:         Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Q: Origin of the term "mass".

On Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:18:26 EDT carol nemec said:
>According to Webster, mass is from the Latin verb for 'to dismiss'.
>I always thought mass was from to be born, as in Christmas.
>There must be different origins.
>
>Carol Nemec
Carol,

You've got it backwards.  Christmas meant Christ's Mass, that is, the
Mass on the feast of Christ's birth.  I think that's the only such
usage now common in the United States, but in Britain people still
speak of Michaelmas (the feast of St. Michael the Archangel), Martinmas
(the feast of St. Martin) etc.

Marty Helgesen
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Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:25:18 CDT
From:         CCCHRIS@MIZZOU1.BITNET
Subject:      Handling beggars

I must confess that I've got a bad attitude about beggars.  After being taken
in by someone misrepresenting an organization that later turned out to be the
Moonies, I was more guarded with my checkbook.  The pastor of the church I was
attending at the time said he personally did not give to street beggars, or
phone solicitors, or any organization he didn't check out ahead of time.  The
idea was to make sure the charity was legit.
Still, driving home for lunch each day, there's a convenience store I pass by
where many homeless gather.  And yes, they usually do "pass the paper bag that
holds the bottle," but they're hungry.  One day, my kids turned down homemade
chicken and dumplings "cuz the noodles were homemade," I packed up our dinner
and drove in to town to offer it to the homeless.  I nervously approached them
and asked if they were hungry, and they said they were, seemingly expecting me
to give them money.  I asked if they'd like some homemade chicken and dump-
lings, and their faces lit up!  They were tickled, and I was happy to see my
cooking appreciated.  This kind of giving made *me* feel great, as I lack the
resources to give much money to anyone these days.
The not so pretty side of me surfaced recently when my electricity had been
cut off because I was unable to pay the utility bill.  When payday rolled
along, I took my 15 minute break and ran to the city building to set things
right.  There was a man in a wheelchair at the entrance, with a sign that
read "HOMELESS VET" and he asked me, rather insistently, for money.  I said
I was sorry for his troubles, but that I was struggling myself.  His look was
both angry and disbelieving, while I felt both frustrated at having to make
the choice trying to provide for my family, or giving him money we desperately
needed in order to save face.  So I asked a (severely) disabled friend and
co-worker of mine what he thought about the situation. His answer was that
panhandling is a very lucerative, non-taxable income, and being in a wheel
chair makes it even easier.  He also said there are numerous agencies already
in place to help such people, if, indeed, there was legitimate need.  He said
my first obligation was to my family, and to give from the heart what and when
I'm able.  I don't know if I did the right thing, but when I got home, my
power was on, and I was able to send in a mortgage payment.
Please forgive me for rambling.  I guess I'm just wondering if there are
others on Christia who struggle financially, and if so, how they reconcile
this with the growing needs of those less fortunate than ourselves. :-\

Chris Reed
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: 78witherspoo@cua.edu
Subject: For Kerry
Organization: The Catholic University of America
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 17:02:12 GMT

In article <CHRISTIA%92082009165354@ASUACAD.BITNET>,         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET> writes:
 
> The Democrats like to say that good families talk with their children
> about sex.  Fine.  If they have all those great family values that
> Clinton claims they do, let them have those discussions and give out
> those condoms, and leave other families and other people's children
> (and the taxpayers' money and the government) out of it.
> 
> It just makes sense.
> 
> Love INC,
>          ---Kerry

Kerry--

	I understand your position. When it comes to spending money on condoms
or nuclear arms I would choose the former and not the latter. Unfortunately the
world is full of irresponsible people, and I would rather have the safety net
there than not, irregardless of my position (or anyone else's) on the issue of
teenage sexual promiscuity.

	I think that teenagers should practice abstinance.  I intend to council
my children this way.  But if they should decide to have sex, I will tell them
to make sure that they, and their partner, use proper protection and not to
engage in anything that they feel uncomfortable in doing.

	As to the use of the taxpayer's money for the distribution and purchase
of condoms, I can think of much sillier things the government is spending
_our_ money on right now.

	An ounce of prevention...

Love and good walking,

Tom Witherspoon

78witherspoo@cuavax.dnet.cua.edu
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Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 08:04:45 EDT
From:         Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Family values, a euphemism?

On 08/13/92 at 09:56:28 Kerry Stephenson said:
>Bernice:

>Praise God for your deliverance!  Your story demonstrates that
>alcoholism is *not* a disease, but a willful sin of the human will.
>Jesus can deliver us from *all* behaviors displeasing to Him,
>including drinking to excess, taking drugs, lying, and homosexual
>behavior.

I am not convinced it is not a disease.  I know that it is more of
a problem for some so I would say it is an affliction for some.  I
think it (alcoholism) has something to do with genetics because my family
had alot of problems with alcoholism.

I have only recently changed my mind about Homosexuality that it
too for some people is some type of affliction.  But it doesn't matter.
God is able to heal both.  The arguments for either are useless.  The
bible says that both are wrong.  If we are following Christ and have
faith in him to heal us from these afflictions, then he will.  But we
cannot justify any sin by saying that we were born that way.  Christ has
freed us from that problem.  He tells us plainly that we can count on him
to make us new.If we don't become changed, then we don't have his
spirit in us.

>Praise God for taking our sins, *all* of them, on the cross, that
>we might know true freedom--in Him, and Him alone.

I second that Praise God!!

>Love INC,
>         ---Kerry
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 12:35:25 EDT
From:         Leo W <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Scripturette 8/19
X-To:         Christia <christia@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>

"Do the best you can to be the kind of person that God will accept, and give
yourself to him.  Be a worker who is NOT ASHAMED of his work -- a worker who
uses the true teaching in the right way" (2 Timothy 2:15).

"If anyone is ashamed of me and my teaching, then I will be ashamed of him.  I
will be ashamed of him at the time I come with my glory and with the glory of
the Father and the holy angels" (Luke 9:26).

"But if anyone stands before others and says he does not believe in me, then I
will say that he does not belong to me.  I will say this before the angels of
God" (Luke 12:9).

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo

Scriptures quoted from the International Children's Bible (ICB), New Century
Version, copyright 1986, 1988 by Word Publishing, Dallas, Texas 75039.  Used by
permission.
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