HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: david90@milton.u.washington.edu (Ernesto Alvarado)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.mexican
Subject: Re: Cristeros
Date: 17 Dec 92 19:54:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Dec17.195459.6216
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

>
>Al decir "Todos" Javier se refiere a quienes nos hemos leido
>un poco de otras fuentes que no sean las oficiales para saber sobre lo que
>realmente ocurrio en el pasado, especificamente en los tiempos de Hidalgo.
^^^^^^^^^^
Bastante pretencioso en tu aseveracion compadre. Para saber lo que REALMENTE
paso es necesario haber estado presente o leer a alguien de primera mano. Lo
demas es interpretacion personal de cualquier escritor, llamese oficial o no.
Aunque esta discusion inicio a raiz de la santificacion de algunos cristeros
y ahora anda por otro lado, Hidalgo desencadeno un movimiento que unio a todo
un pais (version oficial) en cambio el pleito de los cristeros estaba 
bastante obscuro en sus objetivos, aun no lo logro asimilar despues de haber
leido algo sobre ambas versiones (ademas de oido en la secundaria catolica
y universidad populachera en las que anduve metido).

>**************************************
>*                                    *  Disclaimer:
>* Jorge Fuentes de Leon              *  Lo ideas expresadas aqui son
>* Empresa Tecnologica Ericsson       *  propiedad de un servidor, excepto
>* Saltillo, Mexico                   *  la idea de incluir este disclaimer
>*                                    *  que es rentada de Arturo Sanchez.
>**************************************
>
Para ser franco, no he encontrado alguna fuente que apoye tu opinion. ?porque
no nos mandas las citas que mencionas? Mi interes en la lectura de los 
movimientos sociales en Mexico es de este siglo con raices en la Reforma. La
proxima vez que vaya a Mexicalpan tratare de conseguir algo sobre la 
independencia.

Disclaimer: Soy catolico, pero eso de andar canonizando es dar atole
bendito con el dedo.

Feliz natividad y que el nin~o dios les traiga muchos regalos y los reyes
magos se acuerden tambien de ustedes. (o ya de perdis que sea Santa Claus)

Ernesto Alvarado 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.mexican
From: rivera@techfak.uni-bielefeld.de (Stefan Fischer Rivera)
Subject: Extranjeros en Guatemala
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 12:15:21 GMT
Organization: Universitaet Bielefeld, Technische Fakultaet.

Holla Todos,

tengo unos amigos que estan ahora en Chiapas para aprender Espanol.
Ellos me llamaron por telefono que han cerado la frontera ha Guatemala
para todos los Extranjeros poque dicen que han matado ha algunos
europeos por razones politicas. Aqui en las noticias no he oido nada
que se refiere ha Guatemala. 

Si hay alguien quien me pueda dar algunas Informationes sobre este
caso se lo agradeceria mucho.

Gracias,
	Stefan

-- 
++ The first word of the first line - The card's not there ++
+                                  | Stefan Fischer Rivera  +
+ e-mail :                         | Technische Fakultaet   +
+ rivera@techfak.uni-bielefeld.de  | Universitaet Bielefeld +
+ stefan@unibi.uni-bielefeld.de    | W-4800 Bielefeld 1     +
+				   | Alemania		    +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: nyt@nyxfer.UUCP
Newsgroups: soc.culture.mexican
Date: 13 Dec 92 13:18 PST
Subject: Mexican Official Accused in DEA Mur
Nf-ID: #N:NwNqVB2w165w@nyxfer.uucp:-1418273236:000:2432
Nf-From: nyxfer.uucp!nyt    Dec 13 13:18:00 1992


Subject: Mexican Official Accused in DEA Murder
From: nyxfer!nyt (NY Transfer News)


Via The NY Transfer News Service * All the News that Doesn't Fit

edlp 12/10 Translated and edited by Toby Mailman.  "el Diario/La 
Prensa" is a Spanish language newspaper published in New York 
City.

MEXICAN OFFICIALS ACCUSED OF CAMARENA MURDER

In testimony on Dec. 9, in the trial of Dr. Humberto Alvarez
Machain and Ruben Zuno Arce, a former bodyguard of drug trafficker
Ernesto Fonscea, Jorge Godoy, described four meetings in which the
kidnapping of Enrique Camarena was discussed. 

Camarena was a US DEA agent killed in 1985. Machain and Zuno are
accused of involvement in the killing. Godoy said the meetings in
which Camareno's kidnapping was discussed were attended by heads
of the Guadalajara drug ring, then-Mexican Minister of Defense
Juan Arevalo and then-Minister of the Interior Manual Bartlett
Diaz.  He said that the governor of the state of Jalisco, Enrique
Alvarez del Castillo, and the director of Interpol, Manuel Aldana
Ibarra, also attended some meetings. He said Mexican authorities
located and identified Camarena so that the drug traffickers could
kidnap and kill him.

Mexican officials immediately reacted to the assertions. Bartlett
Diaz, recently elected as governor of the state of Puebla, denied
any involvement in the the case. Dr. Alvarez is accused of using
his medical knowledge to keep Camareno alive while he was being
tortured. (edlp 12/10 from AP)

edlp 12/11

MACHAIN MAY NOT FACE CHARGES IN CAMARENA CASE

Federal Judge Edward Rafeedie said he may drop the charges against
a Mexican doctor in the case of the torture and death of US DEA
agent Enrique Camarena. He said there was no evidence that the
doctor, Humberto Alvarez Machain, had directly participated in the
kidnapping of the agent. Prosecuting attorneys said that Alvarez
injected Camarena with drugs to keep him alive while he was
tortured by drug traffickers. However, Judge Rafeedie said the
only evidence was that the doctor was at the site, but not that he
had injected anything. Machain supposedly confessed that he had
been at the house but had not participated in the torture. His
defense lawyer, Alan Rubin, said the confession had been obtained
under pressure and could not be used in court. (edlp 12/11 from
AP)


 NY Transfer News Service * All the News that Doesn't Fit
 Modem: 718-448-2358  *  Internet: nytransfer@igc.apc.org
From: victors@sequent.com (Victor Sanchez)
Subject: Viajar por carretera entre Acapulco y Pto. Escondido?
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 21:06:10 GMT

Alguien podria comentar sobre la seguridad de viajar en carro por la
carretera federal 200 entre Acapulco y Puerto Escondido?

Segun un libro el viaje tomaria como seis horas y el parque nacional
"Lagunas de Chacahua" esta en el camino.

Sin embargo, mi mama' ha oido historias sobre asaltos, a menudo
cometidos por policias o soldados.  Otra advertencia que le han hecho
es sobre retenes militares donde, dizque por buscar drogas, toda clase
de abusos se cometen (por ejemplo, desnudar a los viajeros, sobre todo
si son mujeres, o "encontrar" drogas en los carros, plantadas por los
mismos militares).  Un consejo que ha recibido es nunca transitar por
esa carretera despues de las 6 de la tarde.

Alguien sabe si estas advertencias estan fundamentadas? Hay alguien
en la red quien halla hecho el viaje? Cuales es la condicion de la
carretera?

Yo pienso hacer el recorrido a finales de Diciembre (despues de
Navidad), y me preocupo mas porque voy a estar viajando con una amiga
americana.  (Por cierto que el plan tentativo es Mexico D.F.-> Taxco
-> Acapulco -> Puerto Escondido -> Oaxaca -> Puebla -> Mexico D.F.)

Gracias de antemano por cualquier informacion.

Victor Sanchez Bures                             victors@sequent.com
Sequent Computer Systems
Portland, Oregon
Newsgroups: soc.culture.mexican
From: A19547@ITESO.BITNET
Subject: Re: Posada en Guadalajara
Reply-To: Multiple recipients of list MEXICO-L <MEXICO-L@TECMTYVM.BITNET>
Organization: Instituto Tecnologico de Estudios Superiores de Occidente
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:13:14 GMT

>
> Raza Tapatia e interesados en una reunion Mexicolera/s.c.m en
> Guanatos. La fecha mas probable para la reunion es el martes 22
> de diciembre a mediodia. El lugar no se ha definido aun, ya les
> madnare mas informacion a los interesados. Por lo pronto somos
> 5 seguros y 2 probables.
> --rene
>
Apuntenme a su reunion, no les habia confirmado por que
no sabia si iba a estar por aqui pero ahora ya lo se, me parece
bien el martes, y el lugar creo que hay bastante de donde escoger

Como ya se acabaron las clases, la escuela cierra su tiendita
hasta el proximo mes asi que les desea que se la pasen bien
y que se porten mal para que se la pasen bien

Saludos desde Guadalajara donde empezo a llover y ahora
si huele a tierra mojada.
Pablo
Mendoza Ares

Newsgroups: soc.culture.mexican
From: "HECTOR ENRIQUE MONSIVAIS DE V." <txm.txmhemv@MEMO.ERICSSON.SE>
Subject: INFO
Reply-To: Multiple recipients of list MEXICO-L <MEXICO-L@TECMTYVM.BITNET>
Organization: Ericsson
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:07:19 GMT

      DIRIGIDO A :         MARCO A. PI~ONES


          ME ACABO  DE SUBCRIBIR AL VAX  MAILER Y ME DIGERON
QUE TU ME PODRIAS AYUDAR. QUISIERA SABER EL NOMBRE DE LOS
LUGARES QUE PUEDO ACCESAR DE MONTERREY SOLAMENTE, POR MEDIO
DEL VAX MAILER (INSTITUCIONES, COMPA~IAS O EMPRESAS, ECT.)
POR QUE ME QUIERO PONER EN CONTACTO CON ALGUNAS PERSONAS DE
MONTERREY.

                       GRACIAS  POR TU AYUDA.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.mexican
From: Arturo Sanchez <txmrtur@TXM.ERICSSON.SE>
Subject: Historia de Mexico (era Re: Cristeros)
Reply-To: Multiple recipients of list MEXICO-L <MEXICO-L@TECMTYVM.BITNET>
Organization: Ericsson
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:06:38 GMT

Javier Talancon escribe:

 ~>A Arturo intentate leer algo un poquito mas adecuado a el tema no qreo que
 ~>en Chanoc, Memin, o teleguia puedas encontrar algo relacinado con el tema

Eso fue lo que dije, o no? :-> Por eso pedi informacion, gracias por la
recomendacion del libro. :-) Aprovecho para agradecer a Eduardo su
recomendacion de igual manera...gracias! :-)

 ~>yo pense que tenias un poquito mas de criterio como para mencionar esas
 ~>tarugadas.

Mi criterio quizas no sea tan amplio como el tuyo y quizas por eso no
incluyo 3 correos anteriores (con todo y headers X-( )desperdiciando
asi un monton de ancho de banda y ahorrandoles todo ese rollo a los
demas miembros de la lista, dado que ya lo leyeron. ~:->

Tarugadas? Si verdad? Me la ban~e...bueno, fueron solo 2 lineas
asi que no chilles ni agarres piedras ;->

Por cierto, algo mas sobre la historia de Mexico... les recomiendo lo
siguiente:

- "Mexico, Land of Volcanoes" (luego te paso el nombre del autor)
- "El Nombre y el Quien de Mexico" (Gutierrez Tibon)
- "History of Mexico" (Parker)
- "Mexico: A History" (Miller)

Todos muy buenos libros, se los recomiendo mucho. Especialmente el
primero. En cuanto recuerde el nombre del autor se los mando. :-)
En efecto, se hablan cosas que no dicen los libros de la SEP o
similares. Solo queria saber que literatura utilizaban para basar
sus opiniones...He leido diferentes libros y muchos dicen unas
cosas que los otros rebaten...y viceversa. Creo que lo conveniente
es leer diferentes fuentes y formarse un propio criterio, tal y
como lo dijo Jorge. :-)

Saludos decembrinos!!!  :-{)
********************************************************************
* Arturo Sanchez                    | txmrtur@txm.ericsson.se      *
* Empresa Tecnologica Ericsson      | Tel. +52 (84) 11-4844        *
* Saltillo, Coahuila - Mexico       | FAX +52 (84) 11-4830         *
********************************************************************

Newsgroups: soc.culture.mexican
From: nagual@XOCHICALCO.EDU (Adolfo Aguilar Zinser)
Subject: Tonalamatl/Sun. Dec 20, 1992
Reply-To: Multiple recipients of list MEXICO-L <MEXICO-L@TECMTYVM.BITNET>
Organization: Xochicalco University, Tijuana, BCN
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 06:04:45 GMT

    Today is the 355th day of 1992 with 11 remaining.
    The moon is a waning crescent, moving towards its new phase.
    The morning stars are Mercury and Jupiter.
    The evening stars are Venus, Mars and Saturn.

Maya Long Count: 12. 18. 19. 12. 14.  CAN-Ix UUCLAHUN Mac
     Supplement: Day 27/29 of lunation number 6. Night Lord: Iztli.
Mexica  Xihuitl: 7-Calli. Tonal: 4-Ocelotl. Meztli: Tozoztontli 11
Otomi: YOHTO-Anegu. GOOHO-Anhmatzhani. Antzhotho RETANRA
Purepecha: CUIMU-Tzhinapu. TAMU-Puki. Cuingo TEMBENCUIMU
Zapotec: CAAYO-Quij. TAPA-Gueche. Cocijo: TOBI-Loo. Cocij: TOBI-Loo.
Domingo 20 de Diciembre de 1992
Chanukah

1503
    By Royal Decree is established the law of distribution of Indians
    as slaves for Spain and the New World.

1529
    Nuno de Guzman departs on an expedition to the western part of Mexico
    where he will visit regions of Jalisco, Nayarit and the Yaqui River.
    Another reason to leave Mexico was to escape from the many
    accusations against him as a member of the first Audience.

1546
    The spiritual songbook of Fr. Bartolome de la Casas is printed.

1773
    Juan Bautista de Anza begins an expedition to open commercial routes
    between San Miguel Horcasitas (Sonora-Sinaloa) and Monterrey in the
    Alta California. He founded San Francisco in 1776 and later served as
    governor of New Mexico.

1810
    The first issue of "El Despertador Americano", the newspaper of the
    Independence leaders, is released today.

1827
    President Victoria issues a law to expel all Spaniards from Mexico.

1829
    Congress declares Vicente Guerrero unfit to the Presidency and
    recognizes Anastacio Bustamente as the new president.

1882
    The Metric System is officially implemented in Mexico.

1916
    Article 3rd of the Constitution is approved in Queretaro.

1933
    Diego Rivera and F. Kahlo set sail for Mexico from the U.S.
---------------------
"There is a clear gap between the institutions of the [Mexican] Presidency
 and the prestige of the party... people feel confident with the President
 who exercises power, but they don't feel confident with the system in
 which all this operates."
 -- Adolfo Aguilar Zinser, in _LA Times_ (1989)
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.mexican
From: nagual@XOCHICALCO.EDU (Chuchkahau)
Subject: Tonalamatl/Sat. Dec 12, 1992
Reply-To: Multiple recipients of list MEXICO-L <MEXICO-L@TECMTYVM.BITNET>
Organization: Xochicalco University, Tijuana, BCN
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 06:04:27 GMT

    Today is the 347th day of 1992 with 19 remaining.
    The moon is waning and gibbous, moving towards its last quarter.
    The morning stars are Mercury and Jupiter.
    The evening stars are Venus, Mars and Saturn.

Maya Long Count: 12. 18. 19. 12. 6.  BOLON-Cimi BOLON Mac
     Supplement: Day 19/29 of lunation number 6. Night Lord: Piltzintecuhtli.
Mexica  Xihuitl: 7-Calli. Tonal: 9-Miquiztli. Meztli: Tozoztontli 3
Otomi: YOHTO-Anegu. GUTHO-Anyayay at. Antzhotho HIU
Purepecha: CUIMU-Tzhinapu. YUNTAMU-Uarhini. Cuingo YUNTANIMU
Zapotec: CAAYO-Quij. CAA-Lana. Cocijo: TOBI-Lana. Cocij: TOBI-Opa.
Sabado 12 de Diciembre de 1992

Guadalupe (Patron Saint of Mexico) Day

1325
    [Day 7-Ollin Year 2-Calli] Possible date of the foundation of Tenochtitlan,
    capital of the Aztec (or Mexica) kingdom. According to the legend, they
    came from northwestern Mexico - mythical Aztlan - and settled in two
    islands in the middle of Lake Texcoco, since it was there that they
    sighted a predestined sign - an eagle perched on a cactus with a writhing
    snake in its beak (which later became the national emblem). [Chimalpain]

1531
    [Day 4-Tecpatl Year 13-Acatl] Not by small chance, close to the sanctuary
    of the Mexic goddess Tonantzin on the Hill of Tepeyac outside Mexico City,
    the "dark" Madonna (or Virgin) of Guadalupe appears to a humble Indian,
    Juan Diego.

1575
    Foundation of the village of Leon (Guanajuato).

1754
    A Papal Bull declares the Virgin of Guadalupe Patroness and Protectress
    of New Spain.

1794
    Theologian Fr. Servando Teresa de Mier gives a speech on the Virgin of
    Guadalupe considered impious and is arrested and sentenced to ten years
    of exile in Spain. He argued that Quetzalcoatl was St. Thomas and that
    St. Mary was really Tonantzin, invalidating the religious justification
    of the conquest.

1881
    The Sonora-Baja California railroad contract is assigned.

1884
    Nayarit separates from Jalisco and becomes a sovereign state.

1901
    A law to regulate primary education is promulgated.

1905
    Songwriter Augusto (Guty) Cardenas is born in Merida, Yucatan.
    His most popular songs are: "Rayito de Sol", "Nunca", "Flor",
    "Golondrina viajera", etc.

1914
    President Carranza makes modifications to the Plan of Guadalupe
    to reject the agreements of the Aguascalientes Convention.

1934
    Politician Miguel de la Madrid Hurtado is born. President 1982-88.

1957
    Actress Ana Alicia (Ortiz) is born.

1959
    A resolution establishing a permanent UN Committee on the Peaceful
    Uses of Outer Space is adopted by the Assembly. Mexico is among
    24 member nations.

    Entertainer Sheila E (Escobedo) is born.
---------------------
"Yesterday is a memory
 Tomorrow is a dream
 Today is a bitch"    Unknown
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.mexican
From: "Rene G. Rodriguez" <rene@CS.RICE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cristeros
Reply-To: Multiple recipients of list MEXICO-L <MEXICO-L@TECMTYVM.BITNET>
Organization: Rice University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:01:44 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.230932.11865@cbnewse.cb.att.com> you write:
|> Joaquin tu respuesta es muy buena y claro todos sabemos que Hidalgo no fue
|> muy bueno que digamos.
|>                       Javier

Quienes son "todos" y como esta eso de que Hidalgo "no fue muy bueno
que digamos"???

--rene
From: nagual@XOCHICALCO.EDU (George Sand (Amandine Dupin))
Newsgroups: soc.culture.mexican
Subject: Tonalamatl/Mon. Dec 21, 1992
Date: 21 Dec 92 06:04:50 GMT
Reply-To: Multiple recipients of list MEXICO-L <MEXICO-L@TECMTYVM.BITNET>
Organization: Xochicalco University, Tijuana, BCN


    Today is the 356th day of 1992 with 10 remaining.
    The moon is a waning crescent, moving towards its new phase.
    The morning stars are Mercury and Jupiter.
    The evening stars are Venus, Mars and Saturn.
    Winter Solstice

Maya Long Count: 12. 18. 19. 12. 15.  5-Men  18 Mac
     Supplement: Day 28/29 of lunation number 6. Night Lord: Piltzintecuhtli.
Mexica: CHICOME-Calli. MACUILLI-Cuahtli Tozoztontli MACTLACTLIOME
Otomi: YOHTO-Anegu. K-UTA-Angaxeni. Antzhotho RETAYOHO
Purepecha: CUIMU-Tzhinapu. YUMU-Uakusi. Cuingo TENBENYUNTZIMAN
Zapotec Yza: 5-Quij. Chij: 5-Shna. Cocijo: 1-Loo. Cocij: 1-Loo.
Lunes 21 de Diciembre de 1992

1520
    [Day 12-Atl Year 2-Tecpatl] Cortes initiates its second attack to the
    Great Tenochtitlan.

1527
    The Bishopric of Mexico is created with Fr. Juan de Zumarraga
    as its first bishop.

1530
    Works on the cathedral of Mexico are initiated.

1720
    The system of escorting merchant ships to Spain is initiated.

1809
    Valladolid Conspiracy. This conspiracy for the independence of
    New Spain is discovered and its members arrested; among them:
    Mariano Michelena, Jose Gracia Obeso, etc.

1827
    [Montan~o Plan] Lt. Col. Manuel Montan~o uprises in Otumba, demanding
    the disappearance of secret societies, compliance with the Constitution
    and the expulsion of U.S. ambassador Poinsett.

1828
    The town of Valladolid is renamed Morelia in honor of Jose Maria
    Morelos, one of the highest leaders of Independence.

1844
    The daily "El Monitor Republicano" appears in the newsstands. It was
    edited by Vicente Garcia Torres.

1883
    Mutinies and protests occur when President Gonzalez decrees minting
    nickel coins.

1914
    The Mexican Union of Electricians is created.

1954
    Distinguished physician Francisco Castillo Najera dies in Mexico City.
---------------------
"We cannot tear out a single page of our life, but we can throw the whole
 book in the fire." -- George Sand (Amandine Dupin)
From: nagual@XOCHICALCO.EDU (W. Goethe)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.mexican
Subject: Tonalamatl/Sun. Dec 13, 1992
Date: 13 Dec 92 06:04:24 GMT
Reply-To: Multiple recipients of list MEXICO-L <MEXICO-L@TECMTYVM.BITNET>
Organization: Xochicalco University, Tijuana, BCN


    Today is the 348th day of 1992 with 18 remaining.
    The moon is waning and gibbous, moving towards its last quarter.
    The morning stars are Mercury and Jupiter.
    The evening stars are Venus, Mars and Saturn.

Maya Long Count: 12. 18. 19. 12. 7.  10-Manik  10 Mac
     Supplement: Day 20/29 of lunation number 6. Night Lord: Yam Kax.
Mexica: CHICOME-Calli. MACTLACTLI-Mazatl Tozoztontli NAHUI
Otomi: YOHTO-Anegu. RETA-Anphanixantoehoe. Antzhotho GOOHO
Purepecha: CUIMU-Tzhinapu. TEMBEN-Axuni. Cuingo YUNTAMU
Zapotec Yza: 5-Quij. Chij: 10-China. Cocijo: 1-Lana. Cocij: 1-Opa.
Domingo 13 de Diciembre de 1992

1527
    By Royal Decree of Carlos V of Spain, the form of Government in New Spain
    would be the _Audience_. The first Audience is formed by Nuno Beltran de
    Guzman, Diego Delgadillo, Juan Ortiz, etc.

1545
    Council of Trent is opened, during which Roman Catholics deal with
    doctrinal issues raised by Protestants.

1673
    Fr. Payo Enriquez de Ribera becomes the 27th Viceroy of New Spain.

1808
    Madrid, Spain, capitulates to Napoleon.

1811
    The parish priest of Jantetelco (Morelos) Mariano Matamoros joins the
    fight for independence.

1887
    The Porfirio Diaz administration is authorized by Congress to obtain
    a loan of 5,000 pounds from England and Germany to cover the external
    debt.

1914
    President Carranza appoints Gen. Alvaro Obregon to fight the
    Conventionist forces led by Eulalio Gutierrez.

1927
    Charles A. Lindbergh, bound for a "goodwill" tour of Latin American
    countries, sets out from Washington on a nonstop flight to Mexico City,
    where he will be the guest of American Ambassador Dwight W. Morrow.

1934
    President Cardenas makes important reforms to Article 3rd of the
    Constitution regulating on education and literacy.

1968
    Physical change of the path of Rio Bravo to return 630 acres of the
    Chamizal to Mexico. The US simultaneously receives 193 acres of
    Mexican territory, the northern half of Cordova Island.
---------------------
"The best thing we get from history is the enthusiasm it rouses."
 -- W. Goethe
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.mexican
From: "Rene G. Rodriguez" <rene@CS.RICE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cristeros
Reply-To: Multiple recipients of list MEXICO-L <MEXICO-L@TECMTYVM.BITNET>
Organization: Rice University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:27:14 GMT

Jorge dice:

[rollo tangencial, ataques ad hominem y sermon borrados por
intrascendentes]

Jorge, menos retorica de a peso y mas dialectica, no?

|>              Para mi el cura sigue siendo un personaje con intereses
|> politicos mas que religiosos, que estaba en la mira de los jerarcas de la
|> iglesia de aquellos tiempos, y que si no jalaba por su lado politico iba a
|> valer madre por el lado religioso.

Vaya! al fin algo sobre Hidalgo. Ahora bien, sigo sin ver la relacion
entre esto que pones y "la realidad" (que al menos ya se devaluo a "la
opinion") de que Hidalgo "no era tan bueno que digamos."

Javier dice:

>  existe una declaracion de el mismo Hidalgo que mato a gente
> sin ropa degollandola para despues vender la ropa mas adelante ademas les
> despojaba de todo lo que poseian, Ademas menciona que tenia una fulana
> pues para sus necesidades.

Te acuerdas de San Pablo? Entonces San Pablo tampoco era tan bueno
que digamos? Y San Ignacio de Loyola? Yo nomas pregunto...

Victor dice:

% Un libro interesante (y muy entretenido) es "Los Pasos de Lopez" cuyo
% autor no recuerdo (mil disculpas).

El autor es Jorge Ibarguengoitia.

--rene

Newsgroups: soc.culture.mexican
From: jpa2001@andy.bgsu.edu (Sherlette Dixon)
Subject: Voy a Guadalajara, Mxico (Ayudame!)
Followup-To: soc.culture.mexican
Organization: BGSU
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 00:48:22 GMT

Hola a todo el mundo!  Voy a Guadalajara, Mxico este verano para mi
Ethnic Studies Dept.  Este ser mi primera vez en un pas extranjero y me
gustara some input de knowledgeable gente.  Ayudame, por favor!

Gracias!

Sherlette Dixon