From: czl30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Chris Lee)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: I feel threatened by Christianity...
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:57:26 GMT
Reply-To: czl30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Chris Lee)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1993Jan11.221419.9773@iscsvax.uni.edu> sperry2699@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>In article <1993Jan11.214149.22353@netcom.com>, bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig) writes:
>> I just saw part of Pat Robertson's TV show "The 700 Club" for the
>> first time today while I was home on my lunch break, and I'll admit,
>> it frightened me.  I was never really aware of what large Christian
>> organizations are doing these days.
>> 
>> Robertson kept talking about how society is moving farther and farther
>> away from God, and how this nation is falling into such sinful
>> activities as drug use, murder, abortion, homosexuality and sodomy,
>> and materialism as a result.  
>
>Society IS moving further away from God.  Don't you believe drug use or murder
>(for example) are sin?

I have no idea what "sin" is. The only people who use it seem to be
christian fundies who apply it to everything from farting in bed to
not sharing their delusion.

>
>> He urged his audience to rally together
>> and fight the anti-Christian oppression.  He spoke highly of the fight
>> to put official prayer back into schools, 

Unfortunately the loonies scream that they are oppressed when they are
prevented from trying to enforce their believes on everybody else. It's
a common tactic amongst fringe groups. Define everybody else as the enemy
and accuse them of attacking you. Its all rather pathetic and more that
a little paranoid.

>
>There should be a time set aside for those who wish to pray.

Why?

>                                                              Possibly a break
>from the classroom.  Is it so bad to have 20 min set aside for people to pray?
>
>> and he encouraged the
>> pro-life crowd to keep striving for their goal, 
>
>Why not.  The NOW people are always pushing the pro-abortion side.

An example of a typical Pat Robertson tactic: if you are not 100% for us,
then you are 100% against us. No middle ground. What has the NOW got to
do with classrooms or atheists? (Hint: nothing at all)

>
>> and he even did an
>> interview with one of the lawyers from a Christian legal firm which is
>> working to defend the ability of students to distribute pro-life
>> pamphlets in schools.  
>
>Isn't that a good thing?  Shouldn't people be defending the pro-lifer's rights? 
>Others do a good job of defending the pro-abortion side.

Actually, it's not equivalent. The bigots want to prevent ALL women having
abortions. The pro-choicers just want women to be able to choose. They
aren't forcing women to have abortions. The rest of us realise that if the
bigots have their way, it will mean a return to illegal back-street
abortions.

I don't know anybody who is pro-abortion. Do you? I do know a lot of folk
who are so certain of their views about abortion, whose only justification
for their views is a collection of religious myths and legends, who try
to force these views on everybody else.

I find the idea of abortion rather disquieting. I am a man. It's not up
to me to tell a woman she can or can't have an abortion. Women I have
known who have had abortions have agonised over the decision, and not
taken them lightly.

>
>> Throughout the whole time I watched him,
>> Robertson kept talking about his desire to return America to
>> traditional family values, despite his opposition (which, it could be
>> inferred from his words, is quite morally depraved).
>
>There is a lacking of traditional family values in this country.  If you don't
>see that problem, then maybe you are part of it.

Define "traditional family values".

>
>> I'm worried.  What am I to do if much of this comes to pass?  I don't
>> want my children to be singled out by sitting quietly during a school
>> prayer, 
>
>What's the difference?  Your kids don't have to pray if they don't want to. 
>Isn't that good enough?

Children who seem in any way different to the majority get singled out.
I know this from bitter experience when I was an 8-year old atheist.

Also, how would you force who doesn't want to join in, to sit quietly?

>
>> I don't want my tax money to be spent on a public nativity
>> scene, 
>
>Too late.  It already is.

In spite of the First Amendment to the Constitution of The United States
Of America.

>
>> I don't want Jehovah's Witnesses to come by my door (as they
>> did twice right after Christmas).  
>
>They have the right to walk the streets and spread the twisted gospel that they
>do (unfortunately).

How do you know that their gospel is twisted and your's isn't? They are
both equally valid in that people believe it. They are both equally
invalid when they to force themselves on other people.

>
>> I just want to be left alone, and
>> not have well-meaning people try to bring the word of Jesus to me, and
>
>Then tell them to leave.  Is that too hard?

Please leave alt.atheism stop trying to force your bigotry on me. There,
that wasn't too hard, was it?

>
>> not have a well-meaning government decide what's morally best for me.
>
>Good!  Then oppose the liberal government that we have and push for the
>conservative stand!

What liberal government?

>
>> I have my own moral values which I'm perfectly happy to keep to
>> myself.  Heck, I won't even complain about the "In God We Trust" on
>> all my money, if it would just convince the Christians to keep their
>> religion out of my life.
>> 
>> I'm overreacting, I know, but just seeing Pat Robertson voicing a lot
>> of arguments so one-sided 
>
>I hate to break it to you, but your side is only one also.

But it's a side that just wants everybody to live together in peace.
Pat Robertson and his followers want to enforce their particular brand
of bigotry, ignorance and fundamental religion on everybody else. The
other side is A REACTION to this.

>
>> I'm surprised they don't fall over is bad
>> enough -- seeing him on TV, with the phones around him ringing off the
>> hook with people pledging money to support him, really got to me.  How
>> _dare_ he try to pass _himself_ off as the oppressed one!
>
>Christianity is opressed in the U.S.  However, I've always heard that the
>opressed Church is the best!
> 

Christianity is not oppressed in the U.S. The crazies claim it is when
the rest of us (including mainstream christians) try to stop them
forcing their fundamentalism, bigotry and ignorance on everybody else.

>
>ECM

Chris
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism