HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (Goof)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Answer to nabeel
Date: 13 Nov 92 04:39:00 GMT
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711

In article <Nov.12.15.24.31.1992.16007@caip.rutgers.edu> marwang@caip.rutgers.edu (Marwan Gharaybeh) writes:
>gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (Manu) writes:
>
>>	Actually, I don't go to either Claremont-McKenna or Pomona but
>>	to Harvey Mudd, the science school of the 5 colleges.  If anyone
>>	cares to look, you'll see that this school has been ranked the
>>	#1 engineering school in the US by US News and World Report.  
>        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>I do not know how the US News and World Report do their ratings, but
>from what I know the MIT is the #1 school in Engineering.

	It seems you know less than I thought (if that was possible).
	Maybe you ought to read it and find out how and what they
	rate.   Mudd is a school that specializes in engineering and is
	not ranked against MIT, which by the way is NOT an engineering
	school.  While many of its students are studying engineering,
	I believe that most undergrads major in computer science.  
	Furthermore there is the Sloan school of business and the liberal
	arts school at MIT.  Mudd has neither.  Mudd is an undergraduate
	college as opposed to MIT which caters to its grad students.  Thus
	MIT is NOT best place for an undergrad student to study engineering.
	If you're a grad student MIT is infinitely superior than Mudd.
>
>>	However I made the orginal post to defend CMU which is a fine
>>	university.
>
>And CMU is rated much higher than your mud university.

	Uh huh and you know what you're talking about.  


	Geoff


-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            

A .sig?  A .sig? We don't need no stinkin' .sigs!
From: zmood@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: MEQ #17: Ben-Gurion on Israeli expansi
Date: 11 Nov 92 22:55:16 GMT
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia

In article <1992Nov10.021120.25720@trl.oz.au>, faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris) writes:
> In article <1dn0i5INNb29@manuel.anu.edu.au>, bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:
> |> 
> |> In article 18155@trl.oz.au, faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris) writes:
> |> >In article <1dk9h2INNnqm@manuel.anu.edu.au>, bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:
> |> 
> |> >|>       MEQ #17.  Teveth on Ben-Gurion's vision of the future of Israel, 1937.
> |> [...]
> |> 
> |> >Did Ben-Gurion have an idea of where the Jewish state's borders should be?.
> |> 
> |> I don't have a clear idea of this.  I think it varied during his life,
> |> but I don't know of any instance where he called for an empire from the
> |> Nile to the Euphrates as a few Zionists did.  Certainly he wanted all
> |> of what was called Palestine in 1937 (now Israel+WB+Gaza) but probably
> |> also Lebanon up to the Litani, the Golan, and parts of Jordan.
> |> 
> |> >A.Faris
> |> 
> |> Brendan.
> |>
>  
> Thus if the peace process comes to an end (which it will), Israel will annex
> south Lebanon. Then 2/3 of the Israeli expansion goal beyond the borders of 
> Palestine would have been realised. This leaves the east bank of the Jordan
> river for future conquest.
> 
> A.Faris

Ben-Gurion's views don't necessarily constitute those of present day Israeli's.
There has been a considerable volume of water under many bridges since his
passing. 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal)
Subject: Re: Those Wacky Iranians (Apologies to Harry)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:05:42 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.054021.11972@cs.brown.edu>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
> Seems Iran is going at it again... what do they think? If it worked
> in Sudan, it will work in Jordan? No way Hoze, not with Hussein.
> 
> 
> From today's Israel line:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------- 
> Today's YEDIOT AHRONOT reports that Syrian President Hafez Assad
> recently relayed intelligence information to King Hussein of Jordan
> which assisted in revealing a coup aimed at overthrowing the King.
> Assad even allowed a Syrian citizen at the beginning of this week
> to appear before a military court in Amman to testify on funds
> transferred from Iran to the Islamic underground in Jordan, for the
> purpose of assisting plans to overthrow King Hussein. Among those
> arrested in the plotted coup are two members of the Jordanian
> parliament who represent the Islamic front. According to the
> newspaper, investigations revealed that Iran, Libya, and Ahmed
> Jibril's Organization the Democratic Front for the Liberation of
> Palestine (DFLP) were all involved in the subversive scheme.
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> 

So, is this a good sign?  Does this mean that Syria
is really serious about peace with Israel, and peace
in the region?  I have no doubts Hussein wants a peaceful
region, and a compromise on the territories.

Asad could have allowed Iran to upset the frontline
states, and radicalize the conflict by putting an
Islamic, militant government on the East Bank.

		Seth Rosenthal

Disclaimer: All opinions are my own not my employers'.
From: marwang@caip.rutgers.edu (Marwan Gharaybeh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Rebel attack kills 5 Israeli soldiers, wounds 5 more
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:22:59 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (Manu) writes:

>In article <Nov.10.21.37.51.1992.22601@caip.rutgers.edu> marwang@caip.rutgers.edu (Marwan Gharaybeh) writes:
>>
>>The answer is simple and could be extracted from recent history ... In the
>>late 1930's/early 1940's a country called germany was run by a group of
>>NAZI's ... the Nazis used this very same procedure that you have just
>>outlined namely; when a nazi soldier is killed in a country that they
>>brutally occupied (France as an example) by the resistance hero's they
>>used to get a group of the resisdents of the nearby village (women/children
>>included) and execute them with there blood-thirsty/black-hatred rifles.
>>
>>Israel is using this same procedure again ... Now.

>	I would like you to citye an example of when Israel rounded up
>	the residents of a village and executed them.  Until then, your
>	post is pure BS.

Manu ... Your reply is not consistent with the contents of my post this
is why I am not quit sure who is the B.Ser among the two of us ... 
Anyway, I did not mean that they are exactly equal but I meant that they
very similar. But since you asked for it the Hagana did round up several
arabic villages in 1948, killed most of their residents, took a photograph
of the massacre and then distribute it throughout palestine with a line
on the bottom saying "This is what will happen to you if you do not
leave".

Now to go back to the subject of my post.I meant that when 
Israel retaliates for the death of one of its soldiers that is illegally 
occupying south lebanon by bombing villages killing mostly innocent
civilians is very similar to the nazi ways.

If we look at the motives behind what the nazis/israelis did we can simply 
conclude that it is to scare out the resistance freedom-fighters
so that they would know that they would not get away with it even though
they might be successful in escaping the israeli/nazi blood-thirsty
guns ... They would get it in the life of their beloved wifes sons and
daughters.

______________________________________________________________________________
                                                                             _
Marwan Gharaybeh:                         ||                               _(_ 
                                          ||               | |               |
Better Known as ...                       ||    ()         | |               |
                                          ||           _   | |      .-     | |
Hadi el-gossah gossat hamdah ...          ||      \___/ \__/ |      (_|____/ |
Hamdah, el-rimsh elly yitehaddah ...      ||       |  \_/    |        |      |
galat mareedak ...                        ||  \___/      /   |   \___/    *  |
mareedak, lo tethbahnee be`eedak mareedak.||            /
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.lebanon
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Bulbul)
Subject: Re: Arithmetic Error (was Re: It's no Use (was Re: ...))
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:17:33 GMT

ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira) writes:

>In article <nabeel.721258003@oracle.sce.carleton.ca> nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Bulbul) writes:
>> A lot of equations..

>I do not about your lengthy analysis (I have my probability  side of the
>brain shut down right now :-)

>but you did not have to make such analysis..
>For our purposes now:
>Assumes Israel does not kill its own agents so P(killed by IDF/agent)=0

>550 killed by Palestinians: assume  500 agents killed by Palestinians
>out of 1000 agents: Bernoulli trials with p=0.5, N=1000 gives:
>sigma=sqrt(1000x0.5x0.5)= 15.8  and average=500 when we use the Gaussian
>approximation)

>and 550-500= 50 innocents killed by Palestinians.
>Prob(killed by pal/innocent)= 50/999,000= 0.0051%
>prob (k by IDF/ innocent)= 450/999,000= 0.046%
>much higher than the first.

   My assumption was that one thousand Palestinians were killed and that
p(k_p) = p(k_i) as Dave claimed, so you are solving for another problem.

   Also regarding Eric's post, if his assumption was true, Israel will
be the happiest about intifada: Palestinians killing one another saving
Israel the job. I think, this is not the case. Or Israel is very happy
and just appearing in the sheep image.

   Anyway, all we can do is to solve for a general formula to be used
for any assumption.


** 1 + 1 = 1 (but obviously, a bigger 1)




Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: ifaz706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Noam Tractinsky)
Subject: Re: Litani River
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin
Date: 11 Nov 92 18:59:58 CST

In article <Nov11.233131.30420@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, bh437292@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Basil Hamdan) writes:
> In article <1992Nov11.152839.1@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu>, ifaz706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Noam Tractinsky) writes:
>  
> -> 	Can someone correct me on this (I don't have a map here):
> -> 	To the best of my knowledge, the Hasbani contributes mainly
> -> 	(if not solely) to the Jordan river. Again, to the best of
> -> 	my knowledge, the Hasbani's contributions to the Litani are
> -> 	at most, marginal.
> 
> 
> -> 	Now, let's try to be more specific. Is Israel accused here
> -> 	of diverting the Litani's water or the Hasbani's? 
> 
> The Hasbani and the Litani.  I am not sure of the amount of contribution 
> fromn the hasbani to the Litani, but I know that the study cited
> was done on the Litani river.  


	I hate to be picky, but since you are our only source of 
	information, and since you have reviewed the report, I want 
	to make sure that we are on the same wavelength. In the 
	original post you suggested that:

"Now, after reviewing the report, I can confidently say that
we soon will have proof of the Israeli water diversion.
According to that report and a comprehensive book, which
has extensive data on the Litani river flows, the waters of the Hasbani, 
which is a tributary stream to the Litani in the Israeli controlled
region, are currently being diverted to Israel."


	Which I took to mean that the book deals with the Litani, 
	but the evidence on water diversion relates to the Hasbani.
	Now from your reply I get that the _evidence_ on _diversion_ 
	relates to both. Is that correct?
 


Now if Israel is disinterested in 
> the Litani, I wonder why it would pay for a study of the river flows.


	I'm sure Israel is very interested in the Litani's water.
	But there's a long way between being interested in 
	something and stealing it. 


> My speculation is further bolstered by the fact that Israel has insisted
> that Lebanon join the regional peace talks on water resourceseven though 
> we have no common water interests.


	Of course there are common interests. The Hasbani, for 
	example. Perhaps Lebanon is not interested in cooperation,
	but this doesn't mean that both countries do not have
	interest in the same water resources. Now, it is my understanding
	that all those regional peace talks were meant to gather _all_
	sides in the mideast to come up with solutions to as many 
	problems as possible. Each country can contribute in one or
	many areas. You can give in one area and take in the other.

 
> -> 	Well, you'd better post it quickly, before the Mossad
> -> 	lay its hands on it. 
> 
> Hmmm I think this is supposed to be humorous and sarcastic,
> I will pass on it.
> 
> -> 	On a more serious note, I think that if Israel is diverting
> -> 	the Litani water it should be condemned most vigorously.
> 
> Great, we are in agreement on the fundamental principle.
> 
> |
> -> 
> -> Noam
> -> 
> 
> Basil

Noam
From: anne@techunix.technion.ac.il (Anne Weill)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Question in Arabic (was: Re: EGYPT: LET MY....)
Date: 10 Nov 92 08:51:28 GMT
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology

kgivon@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (karen lee givon) writes:

>In article <4301@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Ohm Salam) writes:
>>In article <43040@imag.imag.fr> oueichek@imag.fr (Ibaa Oueichek) writes:
>>>
>>> The word "Kulthum" means cheeks. Little kids are described as "Mukaltham"
>>> which means "has beautiful cheeks".
>>
>I have an Arab friend standing here next to me as i type this and he
>says:  Um Kulthum means one who has a ring through her nose.  This
>signifying beauty. 
It seems Arabic has a lot of interpretations . The explanation I got
from an Arabic -speaking person was : Kul- signifying voice 
and Thum (sp)( signifying  mouth , so that we would get :

 The mother of all the voices 

 Any other explanation?
 Anne
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Subject: Re: Question in Arabic (was: Re: EGYPT: LET MY....)
Reply-To: a.Faris@trl.oz.au 
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne,Australia
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:33:36 GMT

In article <BxABFG.E3r@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, kgivon@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (karen lee givon) writes:
|> >In article <43040@imag.imag.fr> oueichek@imag.fr (Ibaa Oueichek) writes:
|> >>
|> >> The word "Kulthum" means cheeks. Little kids are described as "Mukaltham"
|> >> which means "has beautiful cheeks".
|> >
|> >:-)
|> >
|> >>: What do you say Yahia?
|> >> Well, i'm not Yahia, but i hope my answer is OK :-).
|> >
|> >Of course ... I didn't mean to exclude other contributers to the
|> >discussion.  Food for thought ya Ibaa.  :-)
|> > 
|> >Anisa
|> >	So, can we apply the meaning to Ms. Koukab Asharaq?  :-)
|> > 
|> 
|> I have an Arab friend standing here next to me as i type this and he
|> says:  Um Kulthum means one who has a ring through her nose.  This
|> signifying beauty.  So it does not actually mean she has a ring in her
|> nose, but that she is a thing of beauty.  Apparently, at one time, a
|> ring through one's nose was thought to be beautiful, (and still is to
|> many people) so Kulthum now would be taken to mean beauty. (not ring
|> through one's nose)
|> 
|> -Keren
|> 

Judging from the pictures and video I have seen of Ohm Kalthoum, she was not
a very beautiful woman, however, she was very Cheeky as Ibaa has indicated.

A.Faris
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.lebanon
From: ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira)
Subject: Re: Arithmetic Error (was Re: It's no Use (was Re: ...))
Organization: ECE - Concordia University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 15:07:31 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.193430.15467@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
>
>My post concentrated only on refuting the completely wrong assumption
>that Ilyess made.  Indeed, it's an assumption that numerous Palestinian

The fact that I did not have the time to reply to your message yesterday
does not mean that you were right..
If you read my original post correctly, you would understand that
my main point was to show that YOU DO NOT HAVE TO MAKE THAT ASSUMPTION.
It is a result from another reasonable assumption:
That there are more than 1000 spies within the Palestinians and that
the Palestinians are successful in killing 50% of them..
Can you claim that there are less than 1000 agents within the 1million
palestinians? can you claim that israel is successful in protecting
more than 50% of them? That is the only way you can prove my assumption
wrong.
>observers also repudiate, as illustrated in Steven Emerson's piece in
>the latest New Republic (which I just got in yesterday's mail; it may
>not have arrived in libraries yet.  If there is demand, I will post the
>relevant quotes.).  Further, do you actually think that Israel *wants*
>to kill Palestinians en masse?  If your answer is yes, I think you need
>to do some serious re-reading, as that conclusion cannot be drawn from
>historical facts.  Indeed, the number of Palestinians killed by IDF
>personnel has *declined* steadily year by year during the intifada.

Israel is not killing Palestinians en masse, they are only killing
enough people to prevent Palestinians from acquiring a critical mass
in their Intifadah. I would expect them to do so.
In the theory of peasant rebellion (Olsen and friends), the interest
of the government is to crush the rebellion and make it look costly
in the eyes of the peasants even if it isn't so, this prevents the
less couragious from joining because of lack of critical mass.
As I mentioned before
the probability of being killed by IDF is  still very small right now, but still
not many people are rebelling although they are opposed to the occupation.
In their subconscious, they  have the impression that they will all be 
slaughtered if they rebel.. This of course is wrong.
This means that the IDF is so far successful in reducing the impact of the
Intifadah by increasing the negative feedback.. But they are not yet 
successful in creating a "reverse-avalanche" process..
>
>
>-- 
>"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
>A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
>     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
>  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:21887 soc.culture.arabic:4722 soc.culture.lebanon:4815
From: shaig@think.com (Shai Guday)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Rebel attack kills 5 Israeli soldiers, wounds 5 more
Date: 14 Nov 1992 03:57:07 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: shimshon.think.com

In article <Nov.13.14.52.22.1992.8862@caip.rutgers.edu> marwang@caip.rutgers.edu (Marwan Gharaybeh) writes:
%shaig@Think.COM (Shai Guday) writes:
%
%>I would like to point out one thing.  If the Hizbollah operates from
%>within villages, and is supported by the local populace, then how innocent
%>are these villagers?  If I am giving you food and shelter, doesn't that
%>violate my non-combatant status?
%
%Let me go with your logic for a minute and see where this leads to. You
%are implying that the civilians are responsible and should be slaughtered.

No, I am not.   All I said was that by actively supporting combatants
villagers might be violating their non-combatant status.  This should
not result in their being slaughtered, but it neither should it result in a
lack of responsibility for their actions.

%For example if we have a 6 year old boy living in a village where some of
%those resistanse heros live, then the Israeli vampires should thrive on
%this young boy's blood. Taking this screwed up logic why do we hear this
%loud critisim about terrorism since you say that civilians and militery
%are at the same level of responsibility ?!!!

Israeli "vampires" should not thrive upon his blood (and yes, you
were being offensive but I will not dwell upon it), however his parents
should not be absolved of their responsibility either!
They are using their homes to support an armed struggle, and often
that results in a terrible price to pay.

If the Hizbollah were to operate from bases outside the villages
then the Israelis would not be attacking the villages.  Of course,
you would probably not believe that seeing them as vampires anyway.

%>I would appreciate comments from anyone knowledgeable about int'l law....
%
%My friend you do not need a knowledgeable person to tell you weather
%or not it is illegal to kill innocent lives for the sake of revenge.

No, but some points of Int'l law should address the issue at hand,
which is different from that which you stated.  It is not a question
of killing for revenge's sake, but as part of a conflict, and should be
regarded as such.


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Another Missed Opportunity
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 21:51:38 GMT

In article <1d9tttINNr8n@manuel.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:

# In article 743@ennews.eas.asu.edu, makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

# >In article <1d4sqjINNt1u@manuel.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
 
# ># In article 1d3pkjINNksf@haven.umd.edu, spinoza@next06wor.wam.umd.edu (Yon Bonnie Laird of Cairn Robbing) writes:
 
# ># >In article <1d213nINNc6s@manuel.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan  
# ># >McKay) writes:
 
# ># >> Nabil's statement is true.  There were many Arabs who fought the Axis
# ># >> during WWII, many more than the number of active collaborators with
# ># >> Germany.  
 
# ># >Which Arabs, and with what armies did they serve? Unless you count the  
# ># >Palestinian Jews (who enlisted in the Jewish Brigade of the British Army)  
# ># >as Arabs, it seems you are engaging in fantasy. Could you provide some  
# ># >stats on Arab participation please?
 
# ># I have never seen any statistics.  The most notable example is the Arab
# ># Legion of Jordan (the best Arab army, as Israel found out in 1948).
# ># Abdulluh declared war on Germany, and his army assisted British forces
# ># in crushing the pro-Nazi coup in Iraq and overthrowing the Vic[h]y-French
# ># administration in Lebanon.
 
# >	My dates may be off a bit, but wasn't the Arab legion of Jordan
# >essentially a British army (ie.e Jordanian soldiers but British
# >commanders)?
 
# There were British officers but they were under Abdullah's command.
# (In theory; of course Britain had strong influence.) 

	"Strong influence"?  I would guess total influence (up to the point
that they cared to extend it).  Who do you think those Brittish
officers would be loyal to?

# ># Incidentally, I would not count as "collaborators with Germany" those
# ># Arabs who fought the British for purely local reasons, just as I would
# ># not include the Irgun for the same reason.

# >	This is slightly misleading, unless you meant the Stern gang instead
# >of the Irgun.  The Irgun stayed away (as much as they could) from the
# >British during World War II.  This was one of the differences between
# >the Irgun and the Stern gang.
 
# You are only correct up to 1944.  The Irgun "Revolt" against the British
# began considerably before the war ended.

	But not while the end of the war was in doubt.

# ># My reply is incomplete, but it's all I have time for.

# >	Going to another David Palmer rally?

# Have you ever considered that maybe I _am_ David Palmer?

	Would not surprise me one bit.
--
"For all I care, you can send your money to the Hitler memorial fund, too, if
that pleases you."

From  arens@vaxa.isi.edu (Yigal Arens) in article <9323@venera.isi.edu>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast