HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu (Bob Kosovsky)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Film music
Date: 22 Jul 92 13:08:39 GMT
Reply-To: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Organization: Computer Center, CUNY Graduate School, New York NY 10036

In article <1992Jul16.174010.19795@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE>, niedermr@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Rolf Niedermeier) writes:
>Are there any suggestions, opinions, or advices concerning
>film music of any "serious" composers e.g. like Shostakovich or Prokofiev?

Bitte, entschuldigen-Sie, Rolf, but why do you make the distinction of
"serious"?  Is Prokofiev (who composed only a handful of film scores) less
"serious" than Alfred Newman (who composed over 200)?  I think not, and I
think composers whose primary compositional medium is film might take
offense at your categorization.  Perhaps what you are referring to are 
"classical" (also not the greatest word) composers who dabbled in the cinema?

There are too many films (and concert works derived therefrom) to list, but
I can recommend the chronological listing of "selected" films in the appendix
to Manvell and Huntley's "The Technique of Film Music."  If you would like,
I'll submit a list of composers, each one represented by (what I think is)
their best film effort.  Being that you are located in Germany which allows
better access to certain films,  I would strongly recommend anything having
a score by Herbert Windt (z.B. OLYMPIA), Hanns Eisler (z.B. NIEMANDSLAND),
Giuseppe Becce (z.B. DAS BLAUE LICHT).  Hans Werner Henze's one score
(for Alain Resnais's MURIEL) is very strange but worth a try.

Listening to film music solely by way of CDs gives a very distorted picture
of the literature, since only a fraction of film music has ever been 
recorded commercially.  I hope that you have a VCR at home.

Hope this is helpful.  I could post a lot more, but I think this is enough 
for a start.  Good luck.

Bob Kosovsky
Graduate Center -- Ph.D. Program in Music(student)/ City University of New York
New York Public Library -- Music Division
bitnet:   kos@cunyvms1.bitnet        internet: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Disclaimer:  My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my institutions.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: colby@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Colby Leider)
Subject: Cage
Organization: Not much.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 16:21:53 GMT


Is John Cage still alive?

colby@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie)
Subject: Cut Out Classical
Originator: spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 21:46:22 GMT

What happens to cds that have been deleted from the catalogs? An employee
of Tower Records told me that when cds are cut out, their unsold copies
are returned to the distributor. So what happens to these remaining copies.
In the book world, I know there are mail order companies that sell cut outs
at low prices (especially hardbacks that are now available in softcover).
Are there any outfits that do the same for cds? Does anyone get a catalog
of cd cutouts for sale? There are quite a few discs that I'd like, but that
have been deleted prematurely and are no longer in the stores, so any insider
knowledge on this matter would be appreciated.
From: midkiff@public.BTR.COM (Neil E. Midkiff  midkiff@btr.com)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Barber's String Quartets
Date: 21 Jul 92 23:45:55 GMT
Organization: BTR Public Access UNIX, MtnView CA. Contact: Customer Service cs@BTR.COM

In article <1992Jul20.182257.8109@oakhill.sps.mot.com>
 hohl@oakhill.sps.mot.com (William Hohl) writes:
>Does anyone out there know of any recordings (recent, preferably) on CD
>of Barber's String Quartet Op.11? This is the one from which the now famous
>"Adagio for strings" came. The adagio has been beaten to death and I would
>very much like to hear the entire quartet.

You're in luck!  There's a very nice recent issue on Koch International
Classics 3-7069-2 H1 by the Chester String Quartet, with the Barber quartet
as well as Quincy Porter's 3rd and Walter Piston's 1st quartets.

It's a well-balanced program; although the three works were written by
American composers between 1930 and 1936, they're very different in style.

I agree with you that the Adagio is overworked as an excerpt.  I think you'll
be delighted with how it works in context.  I heard it performed a few
years ago and had been astonished that recordings of the complete quartet
were hard to find.

The Chester Quartet's playing and the recording quality are both topnotch.
Highly recommended!

-Neil
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: smoliar@argon.iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar)
Subject: Re: minimalism
Reply-To: smoliar@iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar)
Organization: Institute of Systems Science, NUS, Singapore
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 23:00:04 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.015916.27739@Princeton.EDU> roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU
(Roger Lustig) writes:
>In article <Bs153C.127@quake.sylmar.ca.us> 
>brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:
>
>>Cage had a piece called something like "Constructions in Metal" in which
>>the "performers" banged on various metal objects including kitchen
>>utensils.  
>
>This is not the same as "rattling pots and pans."
>
>>I thought you were supposed to be some kind of Cage scholar?
>
>I see you have a faulty memory to go along with your poor reading
>comprehension, lack of argumentation skills, ignorance of music and
>philosophy, and absence of decency.
>
>Jamey Pritchett and Steve Smoliar are the Cage scholars around here.  I
>have listened to many piece by Cage, but am not a scholar of his works.
>
Brian has been corrected on this before.  Since he did not pay attention the
last time, I doubt whether this will have any better effect.  However, I hope
I can at least spare some of our other readers from being similarly confused.

In 1939 John Cage composed an all-percussion composition entitled "First
Construction (In Metal)" for "percussion sextet with assistant."  Here is
how the resources are allocated:

	Player 1--orchestra bells, suspended thundersheet
	Player 2--string piano
	Assistant--metal rods on the piano strings
	Player 3--suspended thundersheet, small sleigh bells, 12 graduated oxen
			bells
	Player 4--suspended thundersheet, 4 graduated muted brake drums, 8
			graduated cowbells, 3 graduated Japanese temple gongs
	Player 5--suspended thundersheet, 4 graduated suspended Turkish
			cymbals, 8 graduated muted anvils, 4 graduated
			suspended Chinese cymbals
	Player 6--suspended thundersheet, 4 graduated muted gongs, water gong,
			tam tam, suspended gong

The absence of pots and pans will be obvious to anyone who takes the trouble to
read this list (but probably not Yoder who seems more inclined to write than
read).
-- 
Stephen W. Smoliar; Institute of Systems Science
National University of Singapore; Heng Mui Keng Terrace
Kent Ridge, SINGAPORE 0511
Internet:  smoliar@iss.nus.sg
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rayc@tara.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Ray Cole)
Subject: Re: Minimalists/Andriessen
Reply-To: rayc@tara.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Ray Cole)
Organization: NCR Corporation, Rancho Bernardo
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 01:44:16 GMT

In article <music.711809223@batman> music@moravian.edu (Steve Heller) writes:
>In <l6oo5uINNfec@calvin.usc.edu> alves@calvin.usc.edu (William Alves) writes:
>
>>Here's a list of some of the composers who have been inflicted with
>>the minimalist label over the years:
>
>[ long list deleted except for...:]
>>Frederic Rzewski
>	  ^^^^^^^
>
>Hmmm... I know several of his works and never considered any of them
>to be minimal. His most famous work, The People United, is about as
>far from 'minimal' as you can get, exploring a vast arrays of styles
>from baroque to serial.

I've been looking for a recording, preferably on CD, of The People United...
Does anyone know if such a recording exists.  My father has an old LP (in
really terrible condition) but I think even that is out of print.  Anyone
know of a currently available recording?


				-Ray
  				 Ray.Cole@SanDiego.NCR.COM

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: lms@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Max Stern 310-524-6152)
Subject: Re: Speak-you English?
Organization: NCR (Torrey Pines Development Center)
Disclaimer: This posting does not neccessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 20:24:56 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.195902.262521@cs.cmu.edu> acid+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Colby) writes:
>From the August 1992 _Consumer Reports_ (reprinted here without
>permission):
>
>			SPEAK-YOU ENGLISH?
>
>  Those little booklets that accompany CDs often provide a wealth of
>  information about the music, the musicians, or the composer.  Sometimes,
>  however, a little something gets lost in the translation.  Witness the
>  booklet that came with a CD recording of Arthur Honegger's "Le Dit des Jeux
>  du Monde" from Cybelia, a French record company.
>      We flipped past the French text and on to the English version, hoping
>  to gain some insight into the composer's life and works.  We learned that
>  Honegger "should have written for makeshift orchestra or heterogeneous
>  instruments, sometimes invented, which has been called odd-jobs which can
>  play a stimulate function for musicale imagination and for artistic
>  evolution."
>      We learned, too, that "An other lyric testimony of the composer
>  particularly touching because he answers to a demonstrative wager."
>      The booklet calls the seventh number on the CD, "Les Hommes et la
>  Terre," a work "as fascinating as jail door" and mentions in passing a
>  Belgian musicologist who is "now disappeared."
>      But surely the most noteworthy bit of intelligence we gleaned is that
>  "Schoenberg's name has been said several times like a scarecrow for this
>  work!"


PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE give us the original French for the above gems!
-- 

 |\/|  /_\  \/
 |  | /   \ /\                              lms@torreypinesca.ncr.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ams@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Herbert Howells was Re: Choral discs by Slavyanka, St. John's
Date: 24 Jul 92 12:20:17 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster

In article <1992Jul24.124906.7790@vax.oxford.ac.uk>, 
wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes: 

> More about Howells: He was born in 1892, was a Roman Catholic (I think) but
> wrote mainly for the Anglican liturgy. Some liturgical works to look out for:
> the Evening Services "Collegium Regale" and "Gloucester" and the Communion
> Service "Coventry". There are also a number of anthems, notably "Like as a
> Hart" and some Christmas anthems, especially "A Spotless Rose", which has a
> beautiful baritone solo. [incidentally I made my solo recording debut---sounds
> impressive?!---singing this *very* badly on a CD sung by Oriel College, Oxford
> choir.]
> 
It didn't sound very impressive when I heard it ;-)


Michael.
From: lmeissne@milton.u.washington.edu (Loren Meissner)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Passion of Jonathan Wade
Date: 28 Jul 92 19:06:40 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

Seattle Opera is doing _THE PASSION OF JONATHAN WADE_
in November 1992. Does anyone know anything about this opera
i.e brief plot summary
    any recordings available and any comments on these recordings

Thanks.
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Herbert Howells was Re: Choral discs by Slavyanka, St. John's
Date: 24 Jul 92 11:49:06 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster

O.K. I managed to scrunge this well and good last time I tried, so here it is
again.

In article <1992Jul22.222436.15304@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>, rtut@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Raymond Tuttle) writes:
> This disc includes music by Tippett, Langlais, Orr, Hoddinott and
> Howells. Howells was an unfamiliar name to me, and the three works
> included here made a deep impression with their subtle beauty and rich
> harmonies. No stereotypical British pallor here! This CD is worth
> hearing for them alone. 
> 
If you're interested in Howells, and if you're not you ought to be, King's
College, Cambridge have just released a new CD purely of Howells' music. It had
a glowing review from Edward Greenfield in the Guardian, not that that is any
recommendation, but casting my moderately experienced eye down the list of
works it seems as though the disc is worth having no matter what the
performances are like. 

More about Howells: He was born in 1892, was a Roman Catholic (I think) but
wrote mainly for the Anglican liturgy. Some liturgical works to look out for:
the Evening Services "Collegium Regale" and "Gloucester" and the Communion
Service "Coventry". There are also a number of anthems, notably "Like as a
Hart" and some Christmas anthems, especially "A Spotless Rose", which has a
beautiful baritone solo. [incidentally I made my solo recording debut---sounds
impressive?!---singing this *very* badly on a CD sung by Oriel College, Oxford
choir.]

Possibly his greatest two works were written in response to the premature 
death of his son Michael. The "Requiem" for unaccompanied choir is a setting of
a variety of texts in English and two glorious settings of the verse "Requiem
aeternam dona eis, domine" from the Missa pro defunctis. This wasn't published
until after Howells' death, but some of the music was re-worked into the
"Hymnus Paradisi" for Chorus, Orchestra and Soloists. Howells also wrote some
Organ music, including a wonderfully triumphal Paean, which ought to be much
better known than it actually is.

-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: young@tellabs.com (Craig Young)
Subject: Re: Wagner's Ring: Solti still unrivalled?
Keywords: wagner ring solti
Organization: Tellabs, Inc., Lisle, IL
Distribution: rec
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 14:00:49 GMT

In the current thread discussing the extant recordings of Wagner's Ring
cycle, the idea of "original" versus "modern" brass instruments has been
used to explain differences in sound quality between the various orchestras
involved. I believe that what is being referred to here are effects caused
primarily by two things:

First, most European orchestra trumpet sections use rotary-valve trumpets of
several different makes. This has changed somewhat over the last 30 years. The
Vienna Philharmonic / Vienna State Opera Orchestra is probably the most
striking example of this type of sound. The VPO trombone section also contri-
butes to this because of the type of instruments that they play, combined with
their concept of proper sound quality, which is characterized by a brighter,
less focused or "spready" sound quality than is found in most American
orchestras. 

Second, the bore size of the instruments contributes to their overall sound
quality, with smaller bore instruments sounding more spready and less focused,
particularly when played at loud volumes.

Therefore, orchestras such as the VPO and Concertgebouw, which also use rotary
valve trumpets sound much different than English or American orchestras that
use piston valve instruments.

As I stated earlier, this has changed somewhat over the years, with the 
general trend being that orchestras sound more alike today than years ago.

Craig Young
From: marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: minimalism
Date: 22 Jul 92 02:20:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: slc.1992Jul22.022007.26318
Distribution: na
Organization: Servio Corp, Beaverton Oregon, US

music@moravian.edu writes:

> > Does anyone else feel that Glass is completely overrated?

> ... But before long Einstein was all the rage and I had become
> tremendously tired of it - nay, even hating it!

It still gives me that old thrill...


> Since then I've
> continued to listen to most of his recordings (but maybe only once),
> hoping that he would add some new elements, or in essence EXPAND his
> extremely tight hold on minimal techniques. There are a few
> exceptions, most notably, and probably my favorite Glass work, being
> Powaqqatsi (although I didn't care for the film). But considering the
> horiffic voulme of notes he has produced there are precius few (dare I
> say 'minimum') that are worth repeating.

Dare I suggest that Glass is the Mozart/Haydn/Vivaldi of our time? Cranking 
out endless variations in a single style with little significant change? In 
fact, in his book he suggests as much himself, saying (if I recall 
correctly) that modern composers change their styles too much, and don't 
adequately work out their ideas over time. Perhaps there isn't enough to 
the Einstein idea for 20 years' worth of music.


> Of all the so-called minimalists that I know, I like John Adams the 
> best, and one of my favorite CDs of his is "The Chairman Dances". 

So-called is right. He hasn't written a minimalist piece in years. His 
tunes just happen to pulsate occasionally, and use some traditional 
harmonies. Hardly minimalist, but excellent for the most part.


> Neither form can survive, although certain elements of each form will 
> almost certainly thrive.

Any style will survive if the composer can make it interesting enough.


Hey, as long as we're talking minimalists, let's also not forget Brian Eno, 
who is still one of the dominant creative forces of our time.

    Marc San Soucie
    Portland, Oregon
    marcs@slc.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Subject: Re: What if...
Reply-To: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: rec
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 04:22:50 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.212756.2172@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu> colby@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Colby Leider) writes:
>What if...
>...J.S. Bach were alive today?

He'd be suing Peter Schickele for defamation of character.


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Subject: Re: Grounds for criticism (was: Liverpool Oratorio)
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 10:55:44 GMT

ucap22w@ucl.ac.uk (Martin S T Watts) writes:
: But the only clear evidence that you have here of McCartney aspiring to write
: a classical oratorio is that it calls itself an "Oratorio", and as I've tried
: to elucidate, I really don't think that constitutes sufficient grounds because
: the work quite legitimately falls within the boundaries of verbal definitions
: of the term. The music itself does not make enough reference to more orthodox
: oratorios for people, generally, to be struck by the allusions and consequently
: this cannot be regarded as clear evidence either. Assuming you're addressing
: a general audience then, the value of criticisms on these grounds is very
: limited, and their location somewhere in the region of 'irrelevant', as far
: as most are concerned.
: 

I tuned out of this argument because there were so many >>>'s that it
looked like a sergeants' convention.

However I just had to put my oar in and say that this is a very feeble
argument. You only ever call a piece of traditional music with a name
invoking a tradition of style if you are being ironic (ie post-modern)
or you are writing _genre_ music. If Liverpool Oratorio sucks, it sucks
as an oratorio. I don't like Lloyd-Webber's variations, but they are
reasonably good variations. LO, IMHO sux. It is a _BAD_ oratorio. 

and no
>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
> ing will change that.
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Film music
Date: 21 Jul 92 15:06:56 GMT
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Originator: brad@buck


|> In article <1992Jul16.182350.1@camins.camosun.bc.ca> dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca writes:
|> >
|> >To my eyes/ears the *greatest* ever combination of sound and vision was
|> >Eisenstein/Prokofiev's "Alexander Nevsky" (1938). Nothing else comes close.
|> 
In case you didn't see my previous posting, I would say that "Ivan the
Terrible" certainly comes close. If you are familiar with this and don't
agree, oh well. BUT, if you have not seen "Ivan", by all means do so.
Interestingly enough, as with Nevsky, the music is by Prokofiev, the 
cinematography is by Eisenstein, and Ivan is played by the same guy 
who did Nevsky, Nikolai Cherkasov (sp?). 

"Ivan" is a long film, in fact it is in two parts, each part close to
two hours (this is nothing unusual for Russian cinema, check out the
Russian version of War and Peace). The score for Ivan is about twice
the length of Nevsky, and it is called an Oratorio whereas I think
Nevsky is called a Cantata (is that right?).

There are a few recordings of Ivan available. It contains some of the
most evocative "Russian" music I have heard. It includes several
passages of dramatic narration by Ivan, mostly with the music, and it 
is very effective indeed. There is also some interplay between Ivan 
and the choir, representing the people.

Awesome piece of music. If you have not heard it, by all means listen.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ashley@oasis.gtefsd.com (Bob Ashley)
Subject: Re: Classical CD Clubs
Reply-To: ashley@oasis.gtefsd.com
Organization: GTE Federal Systems Division
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 00:50:14 GMT

In article 5221@transfer.stratus.com, jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann) writes:
>In article <1992Jul28.191609.24277@u.washington.edu>  
>lmeissne@milton.u.washington.edu (Loren Meissner) writes:
>> 
>>  just recently bought a CD player. Are there any "classical" 
>> "record clubs" for CD's. If so which ones are the best ones. 
>> I will probably be ordering full-length operas and <ouch> those can get  
>costly at retail record stores. Also, are there any good mail order firms  
>aout there
>> for ordering entire opera CD sets?
>
>The BMG Compact Disc Club is by far the best.  You start out with
>4 CDs, but only have to buy one more, at which point you get a couple
>of more free CDs. They also most months work on a "buy one, get
>another for free or half price (depends upon the month; one month
>it was even two free for buying one). They have a good selection,
>and they are good at sending you what you want and not sending you
>what you don't want.
>

I will concur with the BMG recommendation.  Every three-four weeks, you
will receive a pamphlet with a different special, as described above.
They have a "Featured Selection", which comes to automatically if you do
not return you order card by the specified date.

By ordering the "Featured Selection", you also receive bonus selections
and if you don't use that right away, they will included a voucher for
a half-priced CD ... (I have a collection of those now).  Between the
specials and the vouchers, this Christmas looks to be a relative breeze
:-)

The only extra you are required to pay is the shipping and handling, which
would appear to be the norm with many mail order services.  IMHO, this is
worth trying out.

Good luck and enjoy


Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Ashley                        Internet:  Bob.Ashley@oasis.gtefsd.com

Software Engineer,                 | Summer Leagues 1992 -
   GTE Federal Systems Division    |    Monday Mixers: Mon 18:30
   Chantilly, VA   (703)-818-4656  |    Coca-Cola Classics: Wed 18:45
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   7th Communications Group,       | Winter League Secretary 1992-1993 -
   Pentagon   (703)-614-8086       |    GTE FSD Mixed: Thu 17:45
                                   |    NFL Mixed: Mon 21:00

Hail to the Redskins:   World Champions, Super Bowl 26
Orioles Baseball '92:   How 'Bout Them Birds !!