From: bavafa@netcom.com (Hooshyar Naraghi)
Subject: [(c) Iran, 10000 BCE]
Organization: "Akbar the Great"
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 06:52:06 GMT

In article <19509.2b2bb452@levels.unisa.edu.au> 8809787l@levels.unisa.edu.au
writes:
>Dorood Bar Shoma Iranianeh Aziz

SalAm, ostAd Peyam;

Thanks for your historical article about Iran.  I enjoyed it the most.  It
generated some thoughts and as a result few questions that I hope you would
bother to address, if you have the time to research.  Please take my reply
not being directed at you.  In fact, it's nice that you posted the article.
Oh, one more thing.  This is a long article, but I promise it has a happy 
ending.

>From what has been found in terms of archaeological finds it is
>apparent that some 6000 years before Christ ( 6000 BC ) there
>were farming and organised village communities [1] and also
>excavations at Sharh-i-Sokhla ( south-east Iran ) have showed
>evidence of flourishing city and trading centres in Iran as far
>back as 3000 BC. We must also take into consideration the recent
>reports of a 10000 year old city found in recent excavations in
>Iran. These and other finds have conclusively shown that some of
>the earliest known prehistoric settlements took place in Iran.

Point very well established.  I am going to trust the scientists and
archeologists who have come up with those _conclusive_ showings.

Fact one:  they are as old as 10,000 years.  I am going to call them the
original Iranians for the sake of this discussion only (because there
could be more original than them too that we don't know yet), and I will
be referring to them as OI's for brevity in the rest of my post.

>The people that did populate these regions in the indicated
>period were not the Aryan tribes which were to dominate the
>worlds affairs for many centuries to come but these were people
>who originated probably from central Asia.

Fact two:  OI's originated from Centeral Asia.

>It must be noted here that although we talk about the great
>PERSIAN EMPIRE of CYRUS THE GREAT but the piece of history which
>we have been looking at above simply means IRAN HAS HAD
>CIVILIZATION ( ie. organised cities and trade place ) FOR OVER
>10000 YEARS,in contrast Mesopotamia ( Iraq ) , Egypt and
>Phoenicians and Hebrews have their beginnings marked as 3000 BC
>or 5000 years ago and the Indians and Chinese have their epochs
>of civilization as 2000 to 2500 BC which simply means 4000 to
>4500 years ago [2]. 

Of course until some archeologists one of these days discover an even
older relic some place in the above non-Iranian lands.  :-)  :-)  You
know the science of archeology is being benefited from the technological
advances made on a daily basis.

Science (Archeology is a branch of science) is self-regulating.  It always
enhances research to better understand the world and how it works (worked).
What is considered common knowledge today can be viewed as old knowledge
tomorrow.

I am wrong in above saying, when some researcher can demonstrate that
there WILL NOT BE any more findings on the planet to reference an older
civilization than 10,000 years anywhere outside what is identified as Iran.

>The Aryan influx into what is now Iran began some 3000 years ago
>( about 1000 BC ). These Aryans ( or noble tribes as the word
>Aryan has this meaning )

Fact three:  Aryans from beginning were referred to by the _noble_ tribe.

I wonder if they KNEW they were going to be the noble tribe.  BTW, is
this what they wanted to be called or their 10000 old OI's gave them this
title?  It seems from beginning there was some pride in Aryans.  'ghAsem
tofango biyAr!' [(c) dAee jAn, 1356]

Another question: as a result of this influx what happened to OI's?  Any
historical evidence?  Were OI's destroyed by Aryans?

>It was around 546 BC that CYRUS THE GREAT

Fact four:  Cyrus the Great was an Aryan for sure, but was he an OI too?

>.  .  . together with the fact that the SASSANIAN Empire had for many
>years suffered from internal corruption lead to the over throw
>of the king and the arabs took over.

Fact five:  Aryans (the noble tribe) got corrupted right then during 
Sassanid Empire (600's AD).

>people should know that although Iranians are decedents of the Aryan 
>tribes of europe but the so called raciest attitudes of the europeans 
>have never been found in our country as history shows.
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (1)
Fact six:  Aryans (at least their European sho'beh) have exhibited some
sort of racist behaviours.

======  mikhAm be sahrAy-e karbalA bezanam so please bear with me  =========
(1) Can you explain who coined the term 'arab-e soosmAr khor' for the
first time? 
============================================================================

Fact seven [this is _my_ fact after returning from my karbalA trip :-)]:
Aryans (their Iranian sho'beh) have exhibited some sort of racist
behaviours too.

>Who would have been more nationalist than CYRUS the great and we
>know that he was the saviour of all of his people including the
>people whose lands he gained in battle and for the period which
>he ruled Iran he had always respected all of his people and their
>individual cultures and religions.

History-1A is repeated here.  We know all the above; we KNOW.  It is a
good old distant past.  I wish I lived in 546 BCE.  I wonder if Cyrus
the Great would have permitted me to stay in my land and practise my
religion too!  But, we are living in TODAY.  Oh, well .  .  .

>We are as can be seen made up of many different tribes in the
>region and have learned to live with each over the 100's of
>centuries and the tribes described encompass peoples of such
>countries as Afghanistan and many of the caspian sea countries.
>This was evident right upto the last century. 

What happened in the last century that we SUDDENLY lost 100 centuries of
unity?  I am going to refer to it as the "Missing Century!"

>This why I believe that Mr Sehari can not be put down by
>suggesting that countries such as Afghanistan could be part of
>a Iranian federation.

Fact eight:  Afghans did not author civilization 10,000 years ago, and they
did not produce a Cyrus the Great some 2,500 years ago.  What a miss on
their part!  I wonder if bAbA history played a different historical tone
and made Afghans the author and gave them "Akbar the Great," what would we
be hearing today:  an Afghanistan federation?

>that before such moves could take place countries like Iran and
>Afghanistan would have to become stable both economically and
>politically and socially. This means that civil war and fenatisim
>must give way to freedom and democracy.

True!  You are promoting more understanding amongst the peoples of our
region because perhaps there seems to be a feeling that our enemy is a
common one:  People buying into prejudice and fanaticism.

>Iran forexample is in a situation which is unmatched since the
>collapse of the PERSIAN EMPIRE some 2000 years ago or the Arab
>invasion some 1300 years ago. We have seen that even under the
>Arab rulers we experienced prosperity during some periods , but
>yes this time we have been invaded by our own gang of lutes and
>ravagers and this is a new experience for us.

How did this happen?  How can we find our way back to prosperities of
10,000 years ago and enjoy freedom as those fortunate Babylonians did
around 500 BCE?

>Anyways when Iran and our other neighbours start to move towards
>democracy then a situation will eventuate which may result in closer
>ties . . . 

And when is when?

Regards,
Hooshyar F. Naraghi
bavafa@netcom.com
(415) 322-8056

==================  Message for Cyrus the Great Only  =======================
koorosh, shAh-e shAhan!  kojAee dAee?  sarAsimeh BidAr sho, zirA keh mA
digar khAb nadArim.  mA vazifey-e melliy-e khod rA adA kardim va hamvAreh az
shomA khoob goftim.  yAdet miyAd when you freed the slave Jews?  Remember
when you freed the people of Babylon from their king mardook?

kojAee dAee?  We need you, because we are screwed up and we find no one to
take the torch from you and continue the trend.  koorosh, shAh-e shAhAn!
You ought to arise by yourself, for today we ain't find any successor to
free people.

PS.  Please send your reply to SCI.  We even set up anonymous posting so
you won't be disturbed by your 'bad khAhAn!'
=============================================================================