From: mykes@shell.portal.com (mike myke schwartz)
Subject: Re: Conservative Values (Re: New group proposal:  alt.conservative.forum)
Followup-To: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.misc
Organization: Portal Communications Company
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 13:55:24 GMT

Russ Anderson (rja@mahogany126.cray.com) wrote:
: 
: In article <1gl52rINN4mf@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu>, pearsodc@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU (if God's your father then call home!) writes:
: > I would like to formally propose a new group, alt.conservative.forum, 
: > a moderated group to discuss conservative values and assorted political
: > goings-on from a distinctly right-wing standpoint.
: 
: What are "conservative values"?
: 
: Take the following issues:
: 
: Drug prohibition: Conservative (former Drug Czar) Bill Bennett supports the
:     "War on Drugs" while Conservatives such as Milton Friedman, William F.
:     Buckley, and George Schultz oppose it.  Which side represents the 
:     conservative view?
: 

The difference between Bennett and the othes mentioned are that Bennett
is a pragmatist who was put in the position of Drug Czar, because the war on
drugs was mandated by the people.  Friedman, Buckley, and Shultz are strong
believers in the FREE MARKET...  in a TRUE free market, legalized drugs would
result in a significant decrease in drug use - or at least the least harmful
drugs would get more use than the harmful ones.  A pragmatist like Bennett
knows we don't have a free market, and even the most radical conservative
policies implemented towards a move to free market would take decades to
achieve.  After all, it took us 60 years to go as far downhill as we have
since FDR's massive anti-free market policies were enacted...

Bennett's policies are good today, while the others' are good goals to
achieve over the next half century...

: Abortion: Conservatives such as George Bush & Dan Quayle want abortion 
:     made illegal (in most cases) while Conservative Barry Goldwater does
:     not. Which side represents the conservative view?
: 

You make a HUGE mistake in calling Bush a conservative.  That aside,
consider that Bush was in favor of legalized abortion in 1980, but as the
increase in volume of abortions became an alarming trend, his position changed.
As for Goldwater, not all of his ideas are mainstream conservative.  In 1964,
he proposed using nuclear weapons in VietNam...

: Isolationism:  Conservative George Bush supports an activist US role in
:     the "new world order" while conservative Pat Buchannan does not.  
:     Which side represents the conservative view?
: 

Flat out wrong assertion here.  Buchannan advocated america first as a policy,
which is not the same thing as isolationism.  The only reason America First
was deemed important was the slow economy.  Also, Buchannan sure got a lot
of votes and won a lot of states during the primaries... that should indicate
to you which side represents the conservative view.

A more appropriate question is "Does Reagan support america first or an
active foreign policy role?"  After all, Reagan won almost 100% of the
conservative vote in two elections, plus a LOT of democrats, too...
(In case you don't figure it out, no doubt you will, Reagan would favor
active foreign policy...).


: Free-Trade:  Conservative George Bush supports free-trade while conservative 
:     Pat Buchannan does not.  Which side represents the conservative view?
: 
: Capital gains tax: Conservative Ronald Reagan wanted capital gains taxed 
:     at the same rate as other income (1986 tax reform) while Conservatives
:     George Bush and Jack Kemp want capital gains taxed at a lower rate than
:     other income.  Which side represents the conservative view?
: 

If you want a real laugh, conservative Patrick Moynahan suggests a capital
gains tax cut to 15% from 28%.  How can you lump Bush and Kemp into the
same camp?  Bush never followed any of Kemp's policies, and even had promised
to not have Kemp in his next cabinet.  The most successful governmental
economic policies in this century, known as trickle-down, were a Kemp/Reagan
implementation.  Reagan's terms not only produced enormous prosperity and
growth, but year after year the debt and defecit as a percentage of 
GDP _decreased_ (source: Milton Friedman, interviewd on Wall Street Week).

Allow me to refer to Rush's book, which I got as a Christmas present (note:
I would not have bought it for myself :)...  The difference between
conservatives and liberals is that liberals believe that there is a finite
pie which must be allocated among the population, while conservatives believe
the pie grows all the time.  Kemp's (and Moynahan's) capital gains tax cuts
are meant to spur growth of the pie at a time the pie is growing slower
than we would have liked.  Given the spending controls Reagan (and Bush, btw)
proposed, Reagan would have liked to have lowered capital gains more than he
proposed in '86.

: Yugoslovia breakup: Conservative (former Sec of State) George Schultz supports
:     intervention in the former Yugoslovia while conservative George Bush does
:     not.  Which side represents the conservative view?
: 

Who says (besides you) that Bush doesn't favor intervention in the former
Yugoslavia?  Bush is simply a lot slower at getting involved because he
(and consistently so) prefers to use force and commit american lives to such
noble causes only if he can see a logical, successful, and rapid solution.
Remember VietNam?  VietNam is similar to this situation in that it is a civil
war, albeit with attrocities being committed that nobody here likes.


: -- 
: Russ Anderson    |  Disclaimer: Any statements are my own and do not reflect
: ------------------              upon my employer or anyone else.  (c) 1992
: EX-Twins' Jack Morris, 10 innings pitched, 0 runs (World Series MVP!)


my turn:

Last night on larry king, guest hosted by liberal Bob Beckel (who also filled
in for Mike Kinsley on Cross Fire), two guests were Patricia Ireland (NOW)
and a woman from Clinton's campaign staff.  The hypocracy was sooo evident.

1)	Clinton's cabinet is representative of America.
	Who on the cabinet represents me, or Pat Buchannan, or (gasp)
	Pat Robertson, or Dan Quayle, or George Bush, or Ross Perot,
	or John Switzer, or the 57% of the population that didn't vote for
	clinoccio?

2)	Both women agreed that they were comfortable with clinton because
	with hillary as his wife, he is obviously comfortable with strong,
	capable women...  Comfortable enough to have a 12 year long affair
	with someone else?

3)	Clinton promised a NEW kind of government and change.  How does
	appointing several former Carter administration people to his
	cabinet mean NEW or change (other than change back to the old that
	failed)?

Any answer to 2) above that includes statements like "his personal life is
irrelevant" or "that didn't play well in the election" are avoiding the
question.

Xref: sparky alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:10899 alt.rush-limbaugh:12479