From: saj31052@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Scotty A Johnson)
Subject: Re: PIRACY
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:52:11 GMT

jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov (Jack Radigan) writes:

>saj31052@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Scotty A Johnson) writes:

>>It is pertinent, since MANY pirated software titles come from these 
>>nations.  If this doesn't sound logical to you, then we have nothing
>>more to talk about.

>  If originals are not exported there, then the only way pirated versions
>can come from there is if pirated versions were sent there, ergo; the problem
>isn't there, it's where the piracy started in the first place.

You are ignoring the possibility of a legitimate copy finding its way
into the state.  If crackers do indeed reside here, it is unlikely
that they would choose to work with a version of the program which
is already hacked up.  It would be very easy to just go to a place
which DOES have a regularly distributed copy, and buy one.

>>It is true enough that many pirates wouldn't have the "balls" to
>>steal a car, though I myself wouldn't resort to such language to 
>>prove it.  

>  Somehow, "visceral fortitude" doesn't carry the same connotation as
>"balls".  

No, Jack, I was refering to the names you called me, and others
who have differing views than you do.  When most of us are trying
to have an interesting discussion (perhaps a debate), there are
people like you and Saul calling some of us "Twits" and "Assholes"
(respectively).

>>I have always thought that taking away the possibility
>>of punishment increases crime, and therefore exposes ones true
>>morals.  Make sense? 

>  Not at all.  Just look at the arguments for and against the death penalty
>for committing murder.  Studies prove it's not a deterrent, so why have it?

Well I must admit that I have not looked at these studies, not do I
know what the Hell you are talking about, since punishment against
crimes is in general an excellent deterent; if not, then why have laws?
By your argument, crime rates would not change one way or the other.


>society has become too materialistic, but it doesn't really excuse people from
>taking things that they don't own, no matter how convient it is to do so, or
>how easy it is, or how little harm it is percieved to cause on someone else.

>  It's still wrong, and it is harmful, if you choose to really see things for
>the way they really are.

This is true, I would say, in most cases.  However, for my illegal
use of software, I have yet to find a SINGLE person who has shown
how I am causing harm to anyone.  I cannot speak for anyone else on
this, since morals are personal, and it is a personal decision, but
if I'm not hurting anyone by increasing my enjoyment and productivity,
then I'm going to do it.  Please not that my premise for not hurting
anyone was based upon the fact that I would not, buy these products
given my present financial situation, and if there was some great
change in this situation, I would more than likely buy it.

>>This discussion was intended to give the anti-pirate people some
>>insight into the rationale behind many pirates; pirates who don't
>>view pirating as strict theft for more reasons than because they
>>simply cannot get caught.  However, it appears that you represent
>>a sensitive side of the anti-pirate community who doesn't want
>>to know what others are thinking, because it simply pisses you off
>>to the point of name calling.

>  What pisses me off is when people try to justify inexcusable behaviour with
>seemingly logical thought.  It's still a rationalization, pure and simple.

Humans rationalize.  It's one of the great and few things that seperates
us from the monkeys (no flames towards monkeys inteded).  You see this
behavior as inexcusable, while I believe that others who do not pirate
software have learned something about those who do.

Scotty AJ
-- 

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Scotty A. Johnson     "The beast with the four foot tail."     Iguana@uiuc.edu
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