HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: grl@drutx.ATT.COM (Randy Lyman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Can a .22WRM revolver fire a .22LR cartridge?
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:26:24 GMT
Organization: AT&T, Denver, CO


Re: Can a .22 Winchester Magnum revolver fire .22LR cartridge?

Anthony K.B. Chan (chan@seattleu.edu) asked:
 
## I am wondering if it is possible to use .22LR cartridge in .22 Winchester
## Magnum revolver . . .

Peter Cash (cash@convex.com) answered:
 
# Absolutely not. Though the .22 LR will chamber in a .22 mag, it's dangerous
# to fire. The .22 mag case is slightly larger in diameter than the LR; thus,
# the LR will be loose in the mag chamber, and will not be sufficiently
# supported. This means that the .22 LR case may rupture when it is fired in
# a mag chamber, thus spewing brass and gases about. Don't do it.
 
James P. Callison (callison@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu) added:
 
* As I recall from my short tenure with a Ruger Single Six .22lr/.22WMR, the
* .22WMR was the same diameter, only longer. You _could_ fire .22lr in a
* .22WMR, but it's not recommended, as the chamber for a .22WMR is significantly
* longer...that's why the Single Six comes with both .22lr and .22WMR
* cylinders.
 
Peter is correct.  Although the bullets from both cartridges are
about the same diameter, the cartridge CASES are NOT.  The Federal
.22LR I'm holding at this moment has a case diameter measuring
0.223 inches.  By contrast, the Federal .22 Magnum case I am now
measuring has a diameter of 0.239 inches.
 
While James points out that you CAN fire a .22LR using the .22WRM 
cylinder in a Ruger, this is a dangerous practice (as Peter stated
above).
 
BTW, while I have my calipers out, the .22WRM has an OAL = 1.336 
inches and a case length of 1.050 inches; my sample .22LR reads
OAL = 0.978 inches, case length 0.610 inch.
 
Happy holidays, and safe shooting all y'all!
 
Randy Lyman		grl@drutx.att.com		"I'm the NMLRA!"
From: HODGSONT@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Jake Hodgson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: .22 Target Rifle Info Request
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:23:02 GMT
Organization: Queens University at Kingston

Me again, with yet another question about what rifle to buy.
 
 For an asortment of reasons (some more pragmatic than you might guess)
I want to get involved in the Winter Shooting Program of the DCRA (the
closest thing in Canada to the NRA-- our NFA is almost exlussively
political.)
 
 I'd like to hear some recomendation on various 3 position rifles in the
'target rifle'  I'm not that familiar with DCRA rules, so for
the sake of argument let's stick with UIT rules as far as target/free
rifle distinctions.  I do recall that DCRA limits weight to 12lbs or so.
 
 The other key point is that I'm doing this on a budget.  ie. don't
tell me about AnshutzShutzenriflenthingens that I can get for a mere
2000$.  I'd like to stay under 500$CDN.  Preferably a lot under, but that's
abit unrealistic.
 
  As always, email me directly or, if there is interest, post it to the
world.
 
                                                   Thanks in Advance
                                               Warm Hearth!
                                                     Jake
 
Jake Hodgson____________________________________________________________
HODGSONT@QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA               |  All skill is in vain when
Disclaimer: It must be my doing because |  an angel pisses in the
            THIS bunch won't take       |  touchhole of your musket.
            responsibility for ANYTHING |  -old German proverb
From: trose@NeXT.COM
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: AMT backup .380
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:54:36 GMT



I am looking for a small pocket pistol for occasional carry
when belt carry isnot available.   I read an article on the 
AMT .380 "backup".  The article was very positive.   From I
have heard there first version of the backup was unreliable
(the SA version).  Supposedly this new version (DA only) does a better
job w/ QA.   Has anybody had any experince with the AMT?  I would like
to decide soon so that I can get the pistol for under the tree!!

thanks for the help
tracy in boston

trose@next.com
From: assaf@acad2.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Smith & Wesson Autos
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:54:42 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska

In article <9212081431.AA29646@news.cis.ohio-state.edu>, mopar+@cs.cmu.edu (Paul Kikuchi) writes:
# 
# If you own a 3rd generation Smith & Wesson Auto, could
# you please take a couple seconds to send me a note
# on your thoughts about the guns.  Likes, dislikes, strength,
# reliability, etc...  Any help would be appreciated.
# I don't care what model or caliber...I have not made that
# decision yet.  
# 
# Thanks,
# Paul Kikuchi
# Pittsburgh PA.
# 

   I have owned a S+W 5906 for 2 years.  It is not as light as the Berretta 92f 
 It is solidly built.  Care should be taken to avoid the alloy frames though
the simple way of doing this is to get one with the last two digits of 04 or 06
which is blued or stainless respectively.  I have read that the factory pull on
the trigger needs to be adjusted but I have never had a problem with it.  Also
if your going to spend the money do yourself a favor and get the adjustable
sights.

Shane Forth
Anchorage AK
From: cccbbs!michael.proffitt@uceng.uc.EDU (Michael Proffitt)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: .45 PISTOL
Date: 12 Dec 92 17:17:01 GMT
Organization: Cincinnati Computer Connection BBS - Cincinnati, OH - 513-752-8248

I am thinking about buying a .45 cal Colt Gold Cup, and would like some
input from those who know more about this than I do.  Is this a good
move, or are there better .45's out there which will offer me better
accuracy and dependebility without busting my wallet?  For the most
part, I will be shooting bowling pins, paper targets and falling plates.
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Denver Police shoot man
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:54:03 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <RTARAZ.92Dec13145923@realsoon.WPI.EDU>, by rtaraz@realsoon.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz):
# #>>>> On 12 Dec 92 00:19:21 GMT, dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb) said:
# 
# dnewcomb> BTW, the assailant's attack was effectively brought to an
# dnewcomb> end and he was taken into custody and delivered to the city
# dnewcomb> morgue. So, I don't think we need to hear any more about 9
# dnewcomb> mm not being good enough for police work.  -
#              
# 	good point!
# 

Beg your pardon, but does anyone know where the guy was hit?  Since he was
killed, I have a suspcion that .45 acp rounds that hit him in the same
sequence/places would not have stopped this particular person any faster. 
The oaken stake and mallet might have done better though ;-{).
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu (John Stephens Cronin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SK  (Chinese version of AK47)
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:20:30 GMT
Organization: Common Container Liberation Front


In article <1992Dec11.002409.21121@ennews.eas.asu.edu> whetten@enws286.EAS.ASU.EDU (Frank L. Whetten) writes:
->That's SKS.  Can you get a *new* one?  I thought they were all used,
->Chinese army surplus.

Many of them were unissued, and can be had in as new condition except for
a little wear and tear on the exterior, particularly the wood.  Most of the
ones I have seen lately seem to be in this condition, both the older versions
and the new versions (ie 196? and 199? versions).

->#Questions:
->#    Is this really like the famed AK47?
->
->Actually its the precursor.  When looking at an AK, the lineage is
->obvious. 

It is like the famed AK47 in that it is utterly reliable, it fires the
same cartridge, and it was issued to Communist troops all over the world.
Other than that, they are not the same.

->#    Am I getting a good deal?
->
->I bought my SKS for $88.00 if I remember right (but it was obviously
->used, so that might be the difference).

$110 is good if it comes with the bayonet and a sling.

->#    Can it be full auto converted?

There was never a military version that was full auto.  It really doesn't
make much sense to have a full auto rifle with a 10 round magazine.  It
probably CAN be converted to full auto, but at what cost, will it be reliable
and safe, and is it really worth it?

->#    What are the chances of the value going up because of some change in 
->#        assault rifle laws (would it be a good investment to get one and 
->#        not shoot it)?
->
->I wouldn't think they will ever be *too* valuable, if only because
->everybody I know has one (or two).

Shoot the thing.  It is even more ludicrous than AKs or M16s going up
in price because they are "rare".  Hell, any kid in Somalia can get one
of the newer ones and would probably turn his nose up at an SKS.

The point is that all of these weapons were manufactured in the many millions.
They will not be "rare" on this planet for many decades, although it may get
more difficult to legally obtain them in the USA.

-- 
John Cronin	Internet: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu	Phone: (404) 876-1419
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live each day as if it's your last.  One day you'll be right.  -- me
Lighten up, you're gonna die whether you have fun or not.      -- me again
From: rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com (Dana Rigg)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Group Measurement
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:55:22 GMT

Here's another one for that stealth FAQ :-).

What is the correct way for measuring group sizes?

1.  Using the two most-distant holes and measuring from

a.      Outside edges
    |-------------------|

b.    Center of holes
     |----------------|

c.      Inside edges
        |-----------|
     __               __
    /  \             /  \
    \__/             \__/


2. Some other way that I missed?

Dana Rigg
Chandler, AZ
rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com
From: reb@amc.com (Bob Brunjes)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: H20 soluble lube
Date: 15 Dec 92 03:42:21 GMT
Organization: Applied Microsystems, Redmond, WA

In article <HOLLEN.92Dec10085656@peg.megatek.UUCP> megatek!hollen@uunet.UU.NET (Dion Hollenbeck) writes:
#
#I believe that somewhere I have read that there is a sizing lube for
#cases which is water soluble, i.e., dissolve some of it in water, dip
#the cases and let dry.  I am about to process some once-fired military

RCBC case lube is water-soluble, although I've never used it this way.
Older RCBS case lube is _not_ water-soluble.  No, I don't know when they
changed; a tube of case lube lasts me years.

#.223 and .308 which I got for free and the are at least 5000 of them
#and I want to cut down handling as much as possible.  I will be
#tumbling after sizing and decrimping.

Bob Brunjes		Applied Microsystems Corp
			Redmond, WA
			reb@amc.com
From: btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Transporting guns on planes
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:23:33 GMT
Organization: Brooktree Corporation, San Diego

In article <1992Dec9.214546.18979@den.mmc.com> hobbes@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com (Stephen Camp)
writes:

[ my posting concerning 'who to ask about guns' deleted ]

#When traveling / moving to a new city or one you've not taken a firearm
#to ....  what suggestions do you have regarding who to ask?  especially
#when you don't know anyone there?  (I suppose you could ask rec.guns,
#but I didn't know about rec.guns then :-()


Who to ask will vary with the city/county in question but here are
some ideas:

An NRA certified instructor in or near the area

A lawyer who specializes in firearms cases in the general area

Several law enforcement officers from different agencies in the area

BATF (yes, sometimes they can be helpful)

The city attorney

Be advised that in certain parts of the country the legal system is
thoroughly corrupt and they might just enjoy entrapping someone
who isn't a local.  What's the latin for "asker beware"?

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net
From: sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Rifleman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Ammo Restrictions
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:54:57 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Being from Missouri, I was wondering if any states along the
path from MA to MO have restrictions on the _possession_ of ammo
(other than MA).  This would probably include MO, IL, OH, IN, PA, 
and NY, as well as MA.  (I have the appropriate license for MA, 
and none is required in MO, thank God.)


    "A soldier _never_ relinquishes his .45." -- Al Pacino
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Norinco M14/Mini14/SKS
Date: 19 Dec 92 15:19:56 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <1992Dec17.035225.20733@nuscc.nus.sg>, swkmorri@nuscc.nus.sg (Perry Morrison (Dr)) writes:
# I'd like to hear people's views on the relative merits demerits of
# Norinco's M-14 copies, Mini-14 (.223) and SKS. I'm looking for a
# general purpose rifle for foxes, pigs and maybe even self defence---
# eventually. Please address reliability, accuracy, weight, cost (tough
# I know), cost to feed it, parts availability in general.
# 
# Any help GREATLY appreciated.
# perry morrison

Norinco's M-14

I have no direct experience with this gun.  When I was looking to
buy such a weapon, a while back, I asked a company who sold both
the Norinco M-14, and their own U.S. manufactured M-14, if there
was any truth to the claims of soft steel in the Norinco receivers.
Keep in mind that they had both guns to sell, so it wasn't a matter
of talking down something they couldn't sell to me.  The response?
"I don't have three hours to spend telling you about all the problems
with the Norinco M-14 receivers."  In particular, there is some
difference in headspacing the barrel that is apparently a big
problem.

SKS

An OK gun at a GREAT price.  I have had problems getting after-
market accessories to fit on some SKSs -- perhaps because of how
many years the production has gone on, and consequent subtle
differences in dimensions.  My experience with aftermarket stocks,
larger fixed magazines, etc., leads to me think that the SKS should
be considered a non-upgradeable gun.  By the time you had all the
toys on to it, it's not so much cheaper than a newly manufactured
gun from a commercial maker.

-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
C++ is to C, as lung cancer is to lung.
From: hruo@ncrclm.clemsonsc.NCR.COM (Hiro Ruo)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rossi .357
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:23:50 GMT
Organization: NCR E&M CLEMSON Liberty, SC


i used to own a Rossi .357.  Model 971 Stainless.  Before firing the pistol, I
couldn't wait to go to the range.... the gun itself looked nice.  it had a
"tooling mark" near the barrel, but i didn't take notice.

Anyways, FIRST day i took it to the range, the damn thing jammed.  Now, this
is a BRAND NEW REVOLVER!!!  i didn't think revolvers jammed.  cylinder
wouldn't turn smooth, and you couldn't even use SINGLE action by pulling back
the hammer with your thumb.  

So i took it back to the dealer, and they sent it back to Interarms.  Well,
the GOOD thing was, they replaced it free.  of course, it took about 2 months.

Well, the second gun (they didn't repair it.... they just gave me a new one)
looked MUCH better... the stainless was cleaner, the lines were nicer, except
it looked like the barrell was tilted down JUST A LITTLE.  that worried me
about the bullet not entering the barrel right, but i took it to the range
anyways.  the gun shot fine.  except, using .357 Mag factory load rounds
really put the gun thru it's paces.  I could feel the trigger and hammer
action get slightly stiffer after only 100 rounds of firing.

The moral of the story?  if you just want any old gun, the Rossi is adequate. 
But if you want a GOOD gun, get a SMITH.  there's nothing like a good
stainless L-Frame .357 by S&W.

Hiro.Ruo@ClemsonSC.NCR.COM
From: jamaass@bluemoon.use.com (Jeffrey A. Maass)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Compensator design
Date: 14 Dec 92 14:15:02 GMT
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])

76334.1331@CompuServe.COM (Brian Millin) writes:

# Help the physics impaired:
# 
# Most compensator designs that I have seen work in one or both of two ways:
# redirect gases upwards to counteract muzzle flip, or have escaping gases
# act on a surface that will counteract recoil along the bore line. Some
# have a 45 degree surface like the Clark pinmaster, that does some of both,
# 										
# 
# 

  (Much deleted)

To quote J. Michael Plaxco, who developed one of the first useful
compensators:

  "A common misconception is that the reason a compensator works is
due to the "jet propulsion" of gasses escaping upward out of the port
to drive the muzzle down. The reason an effective compensaor design works 
is due to the flat area on the front plate of the comp. When the gasses
escaping the barrel hit that flat area, instead of keeping the gun from 
going up, this impact actually pushes the gun forward. The more flat 
surface area available at the front of the compensator, the more 
effective the compensator will be. ...the remaining "jet propulsion"
effect of gasses exiting through the ports gives only a marginal 
addition to the comp's effectiveness."

                         _Shooting_From_Within_, p. 150.

I have a Clark Heavy Recoil Master compensator. It has a single
port in the top, and two very large ports on each side of the comp.
There is no 45 degree slat (as on the Pin Master comp): all
surfaces are normal to the escaping gasses.

And yes, it *DOES* work very well!



Jeff Maass                   Amateur Radio: K8ND (@ W8CQK)
Powell OH (NW of Columbus)         Netmail: jamaass@bluemoon.uucp
From: callison@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: A gun in the home....
Date: 12 Dec 92 17:16:40 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <1992Dec11.203710.4811@chpc.org> rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes:
##the Beretta; I haven't tried it). Since it is impossible for either
##of these pistols to fire unless the trigger is pulled (well, on the
##SIGS and the Beretta 92FS/G/D/C, anyway), they are going to be safer
#
#Unless you pull the trigget draw bar on the Beretta 92 series back
#towards the read of the gun (same direction as the trigger), in  which
#case it could be argued that you are in fact pulling the trigger, though
#indirectly.

There's no indirectly about it; if you move the trigger bar, you move
the trigger, as it's a part of the assembly. It's also a very heavy
draw, especially from the hammer-down position.

However, I just put the Master lock on my Beretta, and you cannot
cock it past half-cock with the lock securely in place. (I imagine
you could, but I don't want to break a $500 pistol.) You can cock the
SIG with the lock in place, but the de-cocker is the only way to
drop the hammer, and it won't drop it all the way (due to the 
resistance against the trigger).

Just in case you were wondering.

BTW- does anybody know of a trigger lock for a lever-action rifle?
The closest I've seen are the hose-clamps on the rifles in Wal-Mart...

				James

James P. Callison       Microcomputer Coordinator        OU Law Library 
Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu
	constellation!biglaw!callison@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
	Your self esteem is enhanced by remaining an ignoramus?
	Please! Let's call it "informationally impaired."
		--Hobbes and Calvin, "Calvin and Hobbes"
From: smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: DCM M1s and competition
Date: 20 Dec 92 15:33:20 GMT
Organization: who knows

mrr1@Ra.MsState.Edu (mark r rauschkolb) writes...
## You could use you hunting rifle at most clubs matches, but your right, 
## rapid fire would be very hard.  Most hunting rifles hold only 4 rounds in 
#	It depends on how good you are with your hunting rifle.
#	I have seen a number of people shoot these matches with a bolt
#	action rifle, loading a single shot, firing, loading the next, etc.

NRA match-rifle rules require a magazine with a least 5-round capacity for
across-the-course matches.
From: 76334.1331@CompuServe.COM (Brian  T. Millin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Colt Sporter - M16 compatibility
Date: 19 Dec 92 00:24:09 GMT

Considering purchase of a Comp HBAR or Match HBAR style rifle- question is
how compatible the Colt lowers are with upper units from SGW or other
suppliers like Quality Parts. Anybody try another upper on their
Sporter lower? What did you use to change from the screw to push pins?

By the way, the (maybe) demise of Springfield Armory has folks looking 
for another 1911 clone. Safari Arms makes several configurations of
old slabsides in .45ACP for the dinosaurs out there.
From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Lead in brass confirmed, news at 11
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:26:57 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:

#On the nightly news was the report that California was leaning on 
#a bunch of faucette makers to clean up their act since all (37 or so)
#makes of faucette put unacceptable lead levels into the drinking water
#when water stands in the faucette.

#What does this have to do with guns?  They went into some depth on
#one of the news programs, and pointed out that it was the brass!
#One of the manufacturers reps was even shown talking about how 
#they had tried lots of other materials but nothing worked as well
#as brass.

#I feel vindicated now about my earlier discovery that the lead test
#kit found lead in new clean brass ...


No, you're not off the hook yet.  The brass in question is a special
leaded brass that contains up to about 10% lead by design.  The lead
is added to make the brass SOFT and ductile so it is easy to 
machine and so the seat will more comform to the valve plug and 
so the seat will not wire draw so easily.  This got back page 
coverage here, probably because no one cares other than California
where the government apparently has nothing else to worry about.  
The amount of leachant is below federal standards and every other
state except Ca.

Since brass is designed to remain fairly hard, I'd imagine lead
content would be minimized.  

So when is someone going to pick up the phone and call Winchester or
Remington and ASK what the composition is?

John
-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
jgd@dixie.com                        | perform@dixie.com for a free sample mag
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.