From: cobarruvias@asd2.jsc.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Organization: NASA/JSC
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 22:57:59 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.212708.3638@cs.brown.edu> mhn@cs.brown.edu (Marian H.
Nodine) writes:
>In article <1992Nov5.164205.3455@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>
cobarruvias@asd2.jsc.nasa.gov writes:
>>In article <1992Nov5.153951.21920@cs.brown.edu> mhn@cs.brown.edu (Marian H.
>>Nodine) writes:
>(my examples of where childproofing does not work)
>
>>Come on now. What are the alternatives? 1) spank the kid so he/she will never
>>ever pick up a permanent marker that the husband left in a place she could
get
>>it? or 2) Spank the husband so he would be more careful the next time.
>
>PLEASE!  Read the message.  I was not trying to say that spanking was
>the "right" thing to do here!  I was saying that relying on childproofing
>for keeping your kids always out of dangerous situations *is not enough*.
>Kids are ingenious, curious, and more capable than we often give credit
>for.  In neither situation was the parent careless -- the knife was not left
>where it was easy to grab.  The pen was *at the back of the mantel, which
>currently has a table full of gerbils in front of it*.  The kids still
>managed to get at them.  When you are cooking, where do you put the
>knife when you are done with it?  My kids can get at the sink and
>at all the counters.  Do I wash it immediately and put it away?  What
>if I only need to put it down for a minute or two?  To me, the best
>thing here is not childproofing, but instruction on what to do and what
>not to do with knives, at least once they are old enough.

Marian,

I am sorry. After I read, and posted that, I noticed my phrasology wasn't
exactly the best. I didn't mean what I wrote. What I was trying to do was give
an example of what I would do in that case and also point out that parents
really need to think, think, think and not spank.

Again, I didn't mean to sound or write harse. I guess I need to re-read before
I post. Or put my mind in gear before I speak.

>
>Please note what I said at the end:
>>My point here is that, I can work hard at childproofing to some reasonable
>>level, but I am a finite person, and cannot foresee everything.  I also
>>do not want to be childproofing forever, so some instruction is needed
>>including, I think, occasionally letting the child take the consequences
>>of the action.  (Where here "consequences" do not necessarily mean
>>spanking)
>
>Did I say, "spank the kid and she won't get the pen"?  No, I merely
>pointed out that sometimes, because parents are not perfect, and 
>do not always foresee every action their kids might try, kids *do*
>get into dangerous situations.  For example, with Tim and the knife,
>the consequence was that he didn't get to stand on the chair and
>watch me cook in the kitchen any more, until I have some reasonable
>assurance that he is not going to play with the knives.  Since he
>*loves* to watch, he has been working hard at assuring me of this.
>And someday soon, he will be able to watch again.  I hope at that
>time he will not repeat the behavior.
>
>-- Misty
>



*****************************************************************
John R. Cobarruvias, Texas A&M Class of '78, 
NASA Johnson Space Center Houston Tx.
(713)483-9357

"And to think..................I hesitated" (Hellraiser II)
*****************************************************************

From: jean@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jean Jasinski)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 23:37:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Thomas the Tank Merchandise
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA