HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bvandepe@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Com. Straker)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Hungarian GP
Date: 18 Aug 92 23:58:41 GMT

winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:


>In article <bvandepe.714093885@adelphi>,
>bvandepe@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Ivan E. Rection) writes:

>|>Could you elaborate on this please? The BBC coverage seemed to imply that
>|>Schumacher had previously been rear-ended and had his wing damaged. Was
>|>something said on ESPN (or whatever) to suggest otherwise?

>It was Schumacher's teammate, Martin Brundle, who rear-ended him, causing the
>wing to snap off seconds later.  From the replays, it looked like the incident
>was at least partly Schumacher's fault--he moved over on Brundle unexpectedly.

Thanks for that - I must have fallen asleep for a minute there!
( It's tiring watching these races in Oz you know :-)

Also, I'd better apologise for my finger info above.....
It seems that I'm the victim of the phantom finger changer again.
Teach me to post before checking, won't it...

Regards,
--

Brenton Vandepeer, University of Adelaide, South Australia.

email: bvandepe@physics.adelaide.edu.au
From: nxn@uts.amdahl.com (David J. Nixon)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Senna, Prost & Mansell
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:45:25 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

b617zbb@utarlg.uta.edu (George M. Smiley) writes:

>In article <1992Aug19.020644.22283@rdg.dec.com>, winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes...
>> 
>>In article <1992Aug18.171619.226@den.mmc.com>,
>>hagood@sabre.den.mmc.com (Dave Hagood) writes:
>>|>
>>|>	Also, you don't see the flagrant blocking techniques in IndyCars
>>|>like you do in F1 (Berger squeezing Mansell, twice, in the Hungarian GP).
>> 
>>Au contraire.  Al Unser, Jr. had some words with Paul Tracy after the
>>Michegan 500 over exactly this issue.  Mario has a running feud with Eddie
>>Cheever about alleged questionable driving tactics, as well.
>> 

>So ? Cheever is an F1 driver refusing to let go of his old ways and Tracy
>is an almost rookie learning by his mistakes. Come up with some better
>examples,

How about Little Al's move on Goodyear in the final moments of Indy.
That looked like a flagrant blocking technique to me.
Blocking is part of racing - getting to the finish line first.
Blocking on ovals is generally much more difficult than on road circuits.
On an oval, a faster car should be able to get around a slower car.
This wasn't true at Hungaroring.

Dave Nixon
nxn@uts.amdahl.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Subject: F1: Forwarded from cix.compulink.co.uk
Reply-To: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 23:17:28 +0000

For those with a sense of humour...

motor.racing/f1 #958, from mark2, 510 chars, Aug 13 16:43 92

>So let me see if I've got this straight...

>Senna, who likes to be in charge, is going to Ferrari - who like to
>be in charge - where Postlethwaite, whose name is unpronounceable, is
>probably going to leave because, Barnard, WLTBIC, is coming along to
>look after the team - having left them once before cos he wasn't
>allowed to be in charge.

>Now where does that leave Nikki Lauda who I thought WAS in charge?

>And I thought F1 was simply about driving round in circles...

>l\=.=/l
>l \ / l
>l  v  l
>l     lARK.

!!!!
shaman
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: hodges@Breakaway.Stanford.EDU (Jeff Hodges)
Subject: Re: Cheap open wheel racing
Followup-To: rec.autos.sport
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 19:55:52 GMT

I don't know about karting, but it sure is something to check into (I'm going to). 

In SCCA club racing, Foumula 440 is about the cheapest apparently, along with Formula Vee -- as already stated. F440 cars are quicker than V's tho, and look like more fun (to me, anyway). I've noted that the asking prices for F440 setups vary between $3500 and $6000. 

There's a LOT of autocrossing going on out here in the Bay Area. I'm betting that the SCCA stuff is what you termed "professional". Well, if you look close, there's lots of folks just out there having fun and it's way easy to get started. We do have a couple of "practice" events a year where it's possible to get lots of runs in. The regular 'crosses are so full that we're just getting in the three competition runs and there's usually no time for fun runs afterwards. SCCA's San Fran. region has a fall/winte

r "slush" (ha!) series in addition to the Regional Champ summer series. That'll start in Sep, I believe, and there'll be quite a few events. They are typically a tad lower key than the summer series. 

Then there's the Northern California Sports Car Council (NCSCC, pronounced "nik-sik") autox series. I don't have the info phone number here, but there will be lots of NCSCC crosses this fall, mostly in Pleasanton. 

And then there's the American AutoX series, which is being put on by a bunch of corvette-wielding SCCA guys, with events mostly out at Crow's Landing Navel Air Station in the Valley. The event's aren't sactioned by SCCA (I believe), but they use SCCA rules and classes. I haven't gone to one yet, but hope to. They apparently favor long, open courses, which favor the cars they favor. (you don't need to drive a corvette to go to one)

You should join the SCCA: all this stuff is written up in our excellent regional monthly newspaper, The Wheel. I'll try to remember and post appropriate phone numbers and such in the next few days. 

Jeff

ps: so could some of the Karters here in the bay area post as to where they race in the area and what the schedule looks like and the ph numbers of the local karking org chapters?

 
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: I'm confused
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:55:13 GMT

I'm soooooo confused.

About the latest topic discussing Rabbit Diesels.  Are we
talking F1, IMSA, Bonneville Salt Flats, Open-Wheel Racing
or what?

Hey....I'm supposed to know about these things.  Where have
I gone wrong?

-c'ball-

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: gbg@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (gerald.b.green)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Land Speed Record
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:23:01 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <tlm1.713672999@Ra.MsState.Edu> tlm1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Terry Matula) writes:
>gbg@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (gerald.b.green) writes:
>
>>>>Hal Needham's "Budweiser Rocket" probably reached the highest top speed
>>>>(reportedly clocked by USAF radar at over 720 MPH)
>
>>I don't remember whether or not Hal did any of the testing in the
>>car (I thought he just owned it), but the "record" attempts had
>>Stan Barrett (sp?) as the "pilot". This seem eminently more applicable
>>than "driver", especially as as he was allegedly (barely) airborn for
>>approximately 100-200 yards from the shock wave of breaking the
>>the sound barrier. I don't remember if this was ever refuted, but
>>I do remember TV pictures of the nosewheel tire tracks disappearing
>>and then reappearing down the run a bit.
>
>I'm not disagreeing with you, but just wanted to add a little info.
>The speed of sound at sea level is about 742 mph.  It decreases with
>altitude until it is about 661 mph at 36,000 feet.
>
>Now, assuming that the speed of sound/altitude relationship is linear.  
>(Not true, I know.)  Here would be the speed of sound at various heights: 
>
>   500 ft       741 mph
> 1,000 ft       740 mph
> 2,000 ft       738 mph
> 5,000 ft       731 mph
>10,000 ft       720 mph
>
>So, what is the elevation of these record attempts?  Also, anybody know the
>true speed of sound/altitude relationship?
>
>--
>Terry Matula
>tlm1@ra.msstate.edu
>matula@ee.msstate.edu

No offense taken. The "allegedly" was meant to apply to both
being airborn and breaking the  sound barrier. I did not make
that very clear. It was at Bonneville, so I don't believe it
was anywhere near 10,000 feet. Of course, temperature and humidity
would affect the *density* altitude, which is what I believe the
critical reference is.

Gerry
From: duane@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (duane.galensky)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Senna, Prost & Mansell
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:59:09 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <93949@bu.edu> nicos@cs.bu.edu (Nicos Kontopoulos) writes:
>
>So I guess the drivers competition in 1993 will be within the Williams
>drivers. And now for the historians: Has there been such a case in RECENT
>years (after lets say the 70s)?
>Drivers of the same team fighting for the championship doesn't seem very
>exciting to me. It should be (equipment advantage eliminated), but with all
>the politics in F1... I don't know.
>
>
>What do you think about that?
>

ANY drivers fighting for the championship would be preferable
to a single driver simply running away with it this early.

about the only thing left to do this season is follow who's
driving where next season!

duane
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis)
Subject: Re: New fuel regs. for Hungarian Grand Prix???
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:37:50 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA
Keywords: fuel,Hungarian Grand Prix

danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones) writes:
>
>If the fuels can be found to be illegal under current rules, I don't know
>how people can expect FISA to look the other way.  But maybe FISA is bluffing
>and won't make a ruling until the end of the season.  If that's the case
>then I think they are wrong.

Ah, but only a lawyer could claim the fuels are illegal under the current
rules, which say, in essence:   [a joke for the french-speakers among us]

         Fuel must consist only of hydrocarbons.  Alcohols, nitrides,
         and other power-boosting additives are not permitted.

FISA are choosing to interpret this to mean the additives that Elf uses
are illegal, even though everyone agrees they are hydrocarbons.  Anyone
but a lawyer would interpret the second sentence as a clarification of
the first, rather than a completely independent rule.  It's getting to
be like the Americas Cup:
    "Why bother to hold the race? Let's go straight to the courtroom!"
-- 
John Francis                                johnf@apollo.hp.com
The world can be divided into two classes :-
 those who divide people into two classes, and those who don't.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh)
Subject: Re: New group
Originator: kevinh@mira
Reply-To: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch
Organization: Ascom Hasler AG
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 18:09:46 GMT


In article <1992Aug20.165858.26077@tcom.stc.co.uk>, hale@ares.tcom.stc.co.uk (Dave Hale x5501) writes:
|> 
|> I would like to see a group for general car and driving enthusiasts.
|> Somewhere where one can talk about a certain car they drive or ask others about
|> a car they want to buy etc.
|> Also I would be interested in a group about modified road cars
|> as I have a modified Mini and would like to descuss this subject with others.
|> 
|> Any thoughts?

rec.autos,rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.tech ?!?!

kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch
From: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Alboreto: 11 starts, 11 finishes
Date: 18 Aug 92 01:54:23 GMT
Reply-To: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua NH


Yep.  He must be getting tired of 7th place.  Footwork/Mugen have the
reliability down pat.  Now if they can only find a bit more speed.

--PSW
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Hungarian GP
From: smith_p@qis.dofasco.ca
Date: 17 Aug 92 10:57:49 GMT
Organization: Dofasco Inc, Hamilton, Ont. Can.
Nntp-Posting-User: smith_p

In article <memo.579402@cix.compulink.co.uk>, shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith) writes:
> Bob Barker writes..
> 
> '...It would be interesting to know why he [Mansell] dogged it so badly at the
> start...'
> 
> 
> Well: As an armchair theorist, lets have fun speculating, and see if
> we can come up with a theory conssistent with the facts, and
> rumoours.
> 
> 
>         1/. Patrese was PISSED off. James hunt said he was really
>         angry. I think Frank just gave him the boot, and maybe he
>         doesn't have a team to go to.
> 
>         2/. Patrese pulled out the stops - and switched off the rev
>         limiter to get the drop on Nigel. He reported later 'my
>         engine went sour after 20 laps' I wonder why....As Murray
>         said, its the first engine failure for Renault. But Patrese
>         wants to two-finger Williams, and Nigel has no axe to grind.
>         So he let him go.. See the way the two Willimas are evenly
>         matched for the first few yards, and then Patreses surges
>         away. Looks like he held a lower gear longer to me.
> 
>         3/. Senna simply outbraked Mansell. He has nothing to lose by
>         taking Nigel off. Nigel used his head and let him go.
> 
>         4/. The irrepressible Berger just followed Senna. Good for
>         him. On soft tyres they had the edge into the first corner
>         anyway.
> 
> 
          5/. Mansell's slow start was because he was on the right side of
	      the grid. All the cars on that side were away slow.  After that
	      I think it was just the case of nigel using his head and being
	      relatively careful. 

                                    *    *       
                               *            *
                          *                  *
                    *                        *|~~~|
 __O          *       NICE SHOT OLD BOY !!   *|~~~'
'  |  *                                      *|
- /| -----------------------------------------|------------------------
 Paul Smith                      
 Dofasco Inc    		
 Box 2460, Hamilton 		
 Ontario, Canada	     	 *********************************************
 E-mail smith_p@qis.dofasco.ca           Telephone 416-544-3761 ext. 6106
 *****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Subject: Re: Hungary etc
Reply-To: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua NH
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 02:18:51 GMT


In article <714147432.1467@minster.york.ac.uk>, dss@minster.york.ac.uk writes:

|>> It would be interesting to know why he [Mansell] dogged it so badly
|>> at the start
|>
|>Aren't Williams using their traction control device?  Yet Mansell
|>consistently spins the wheels at the start.  Is it possible that
|>he refuses to use it - perhaps he is letting Patrese try it out until
|>he knows it is reliable?  Is that why Patrese has been making better
|>starts.  However, in a BBC interview at the weekend, Mansell said
|>that he made a bad start in Germany because "the computer changed up
|>far too early".  What was he talking about?

Mansell never has been very good at starts.  He's thrown away several pole
positions this way.  If I were in his shoes, I'd spend some time on the test
track practicing starts (Prost did this at Ferrari when he had a very bad
start and improved his starting technique immensely).

Yes, Williams do have a traction control device, precisely to help out in
starts.

The comment about the computer changing up too early sounds like Mansell
trying to blame the equipment for his own failings.

--PSW
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Alboreto: 11 starts, 11 finishes
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:05:15 GMT
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies

one wonders just how far away Footwork is from becoming a
serious contender; their improvement this season is rather
impressive (as is Alboreto's ability to keep his car together
for the duration of a race.)

i'll wager that next season, Footwork will do about as well as
Lotus is this season.

richard
-- 
richard welty                            518-393-7228
welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
  ``if you can read this, mario, you're too close''
    -- bumper sticker seen on a CART safety truck
From: jaslow@bissun.kodak.com (Russell Jaslow)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Chances of Indy car race in NYC
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:05:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: pixel.1992Aug19.190557.29108
Organization: Eastman Kodak

In article <1992Aug19.100903.52284@gmuvax.gmu.edu> dreining@gmuvax.gmu.edu writes:
>I hate to see it happen,but I think that the
>chances of IndyCars racing in NYC are much 
>better than 50/50.

I remember back a few years when there was talk of an F1 race in Flushing,
Queens near the old Worlds Fair site.  My friend, who lives near there, was 
all excited (and he wasn't even a race fan).  I made the following statement
at the time:

"There will NEVER, EVER be a race car event in the streets of New York City,
with the possible exception of Staten Island.  NEVER, NEVER, NEVER!!!!"

I based this fact simply on knowing how much the locals hate cars, how the
local press doesn't know anything beyond the big 4 stick and ball (and puck)
sports, and how the NYC politics and special interest groups always manage to
screw everything up.  Remember the talk about an F1 race in Central Park?
Needless to say, Flushing went the way I expected after local interest groups
managed to nix the idea.  The Meadowlands jumped in, and got an Indy car race.
And look how well that drew....

I will stand by my statement.  Granted, it looks quite perilous at the moment.
But, I am fully confident that NYC politics will rear its ugly head, and 
somehow, someway, the race will be cancelled.  I will not believe a race will
be held until the green flag actually falls.

Now, if only Bridgehampton could get fixed up in time...
-- 
Russell Jaslow          | Spec Racer #33  Finger Lakes Region | My employer
Eastman Kodak Company   |     In memorium: Andrew Spiller     | has nothing
Rochester, New York     |       Cynthia Bishop Halstead       | to do with
jaslow@bissun.kodak.com | Keep the damn drunks off our roads! | my drivel.
From: pete@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Driver-owned teams; are they the best?
Date: 19 Aug 92 09:20:41 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

James Montebello (james@Bridge.COM) wrote:
: 
: Colin Chapman never raced cars of his own construction; so, no, Lotus
: is not on this list.

Yes he did, and with immense success, but never in F1. Lotus was
_started_ so he could build trials cars for himself; he later branched
out into 750 and 1172 Formula sports cars, other small-capacity sports
racers and finally single seaters.

(Chapman _almost_ drove a Vanwall in the 1956 French Grand Prix. Not sure if
that was before he'd sorted the chassis out or after...)

Pete
--
*Peter Fenelon -- Research Associate -- Software Safety Assessment Procedures*
Dept. of Computer Science, University of York, York, Y01 5DD (+44/0)904 433388
EMAIL: pete@minster.york.ac.uk `There's no room for enigmas in built up areas'
From: cjp53999@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Cory James Padfield)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1: Forwarded from cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:27:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BsznDp.42D
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith) writes:

>For those with a sense of humour...

>motor.racing/f1 #958, from mark2, 510 chars, Aug 13 16:43 92

>>So let me see if I've got this straight...

>>Senna, who likes to be in charge, is going to Ferrari - who like to
>>be in charge - where Postlethwaite, whose name is unpronounceable, is
>>probably going to leave because, Barnard, WLTBIC, is coming along to
>>look after the team - having left them once before cos he wasn't
>>allowed to be in charge.

>>Now where does that leave Nikki Lauda who I thought WAS in charge?

>>And I thought F1 was simply about driving round in circles...

>>l\=.=/l
>>l \ / l
>>l  v  l
>>l     lARK.

>!!!!
>shaman




      I would just like to say that this post was hysterical!!! Anyone 
      disagree?

Regards,
Cory

 
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: Re: Hungarian GP
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 17:52:07 GMT

In article <barkerb.40.713986232@slab.unt.edu> barkerb@slab.unt.edu (BOB BARKER) writes:
>I just saw something this morning that I couldn't believe.  It actually 
>looked as though Nigel was using his head for something to hang his mouth 
>on.  Naw - I must have been tuned to the family channel or something.  It 
>would be interesting to know why he dogged it so badly at the start.  Was 
>there a problem or did he decide to finish and let the race come to him?

as i recall, starts have never been one of Mansell's strong points;
Patrese has cleanly outstarted Mansell on numerous occasions this year.
Nigel looked to have been snookered rather badly there.

i think that the pattern the race fell into was exactly the sort that
Senna is particularly good at; difficult to pass, and a tire conservation
race in nature.  either Mansell figured it out, or somebody pointed this
out to him on the radio.  there's not much point in trying to catch
and pass Senna under the circumstances that Mansell found himeself in.

for my money, the best part of the race was berger/schumacher/brundel/
hakkinen, complete with the brief interlude with nigel.  nice of the
broadcasters to pick up on _why_ michael schumacher's rear wing decided
to part ways with him.

i wonder if there were fisticuffs in the beneton pits later?

this was definitely more interesting than most F1 races have been
of late.

cheers,
  richard
-- 
richard welty                            518-393-7228
welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
  ``if you can read this, mario, you're too close''
    -- bumper sticker seen on a CART safety truck
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Re: Cheap open wheel racing
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:41:38 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.162301.15071@cabot.balltown.cma.COM> welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty) writes:
>In article <a#9mxcp.esprit@netcom.com> esprit@netcom.com (Alan F. Perry) writes:
>>Is there any organization or location or formula or whatever where one
>>can do some cheap open wheel racing?  I have no clue about what kind of
>>open wheel racing is done in the U.S.
>
Best 'bang' for the buck (imo) for open-wheel racing:  Karting.

Many options to choose from; sprint/lay-down (shifter) chassis; run on
road courses, paved ovals, dirt ovals.  Build 'em yourself or buy the
complete package.  Huge assortment of classes to run in.  Great stuff
and probably the best training ground if you have aspirations of moving
up to F1, IMSA, IndyCars, or.....NASCAR!!

-cannonball-
From: dlhpfm!dlh@NCoast.org (daniel lance herrick)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: On Board Cameras
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 18:28:26 EDT
Organization: dlh Performance Marketing

rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Richard Beckett) writes:

> In article <1992Aug19.122353.19392@cm.cf.ac.uk>,
> Robert.Hartill@cm.cf.ac.uk (Hmmm) writes:
> 
> |> I like the on board camera shots. I particularly liked the 
> |> shot of Mansell taking Berger on the straight in Hungury.
> 
> 	Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the on board camera shots. I just don't
> 	understand why we don't see more of them, especially after all
> 	the trouble and expense they went to to install them.

The cameras are installed because somebody connected with the car paid
somebody else a fee (a thousand dollars or a thousand pounds or
something).  The company that installed them provides a few feeds to
the producers of the television coverage.  The video director decides
which video source to put on the air.

The decision to air car-camera video is far removed from the decision
to make it available.  Presumably there are some contractual
obligations here and there in the chain.  But it sounds like a mess to
me.  How much did Marlboro pay for that wasted shot out Senna's tail?

dan  of dlh Performance Marketing  POBox 1419  Mentor Ohio 44061
         NCoast.org!dlhpfm!dlh or ab.com!dlhpfm.uucp!dlh 

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport