HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 09:25:05 +1000
From:         Marion Diamond <med@LINGUA.CLTR.UQ.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Immigrant Literature
Comments: To: HISTORY%RUTVM1.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU

Denis Paz asked me for further comments on the socio-economic background of
emigrants to Australia, NZ, etc.  (I can't really generalise beyond the
Antipodes, I'm afraid).  Much of this is speculation, Denis, but here goes:

The immigrants to Australia were in 2 main categories - assisted (ie. by
government bounties, etc) and unassisted.  Those who were unassisted needed
a reasonable amount of money to get to Australia - it was a very long journey,
with all the costs aboard ship in addition to fare and foregone income during
the voyage.  Hence they were likely to be at least skilled working class who,
for some reason (who am I to speculate to an American audience!) preferred to
come to Australia rather than tackle themuch shorter trip across the Atlantic.
Many of them had relatives or other 'chains' here, hence their choice, but
others were certainly attracted by the literature available.  I don't know
about adventure novels, etc (although look at John MacKenzie's work on
literature and imperialism - I can't remember the title right now), but
certainly published letters in newspapers and journals, as well as private
correspondence.The assisted migrants had fewer options - I think they turned up
 at the
immigration agencies (mainly in London, but also Liverpool and Cork) and
looked at what the best deal going was at the time - which probably meant,
which ship left first, since they had to pay board until a ship left.  I can't
be sure what they read, although by 1840 a large number would have been
adequately literate to havea go at what was going.

By the way, Denis (and anybody else interested) the person I'm working on
(Maria Rye, English journalist, philanthropist, etc) worked as an emigration
agent, and publisheda good deal in the journals about the advantages of life
in the colonies - her recruitment was done through amixture of advertising
ion the newspapers (sometimes in collaboratione with the shipping companies)
and letters to boards of guardians of parish workhouses.

Cheers -
Marion Diamond
History Department
University of Queensland
Brisbane 4072
Australia
med@lingua.cltr.uq.oz.au
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 12:52:54 METDST
From:         George Welling <welling@GUFALET.LET.RUG.NL>
Subject:      Re: Phillip II of Spain....

 Why did he have a wheel-chair? Was it for the
> skin-disease? Can someone confirm that it _was_ psoriasis?
> And, finally, does anybody out there know if he was known as
> anything in the Netherlands like _Philip the Terrible_, or
> something like that? I know of several Dutch historians who
> have called him all sorts of things...Motley described him
> as the 'incarnation of evil'; von Rancke called him the
> 'dilatory hermit of the Escorial'; but what did the people
> call him?
>
> Any and all help appreciated!
>
> Anthony.
>
> lawbehan@orbsen.ucg.ie
>
I think, but I am not sure that he had some sort of arthritis also, which made
walking difficult for him. (his wheel-chair)
I don't know of any nicknames of Filips: in fact he is still mentioned in our
national anthem in a very polite way.

--
===============================================================================
|   __   __            || George M. Welling         ||   __   __              |
|  /  '-' (         ,, || welling@let.rug.nl        ||  /  '-' (         ,,,  |
| {  I I ||||||||||[::]|| dep. Alfa-Informatica HCI || {  I I ||||||||||[:::] |
|  \__.-._(         '' || University of Groningen   ||  \__.-._(         '''  |
| tel : +31 50 63 5474 || The Netherlands           || fax : +31 50 63 4900   |
===============================================================================
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Sun, 12 Apr 1992 00:47:43 EDT
From:         "Daniel A. Foss" <DFOSS@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject:      Jefferson Davis,
              living mummy? And did tomb-robbers make off with that of Grant as
              in Ramesside Theban Necropolis Scandal?

   Can't recall offhand and it'd take too long to look up wherefrom I got the
Idea that Jefferson Davis did not do very much in a political way as CSA Head
of State. Which would if true fit what the framers of the CSA system of govern-
ment, states-rights ideological fanatics as they were, had in mind for his
office.
   Formal structures are of course not everything and in certain times and
places paper constitutions haven't been anything. See that of USSR, 1936. Much
is said to depend on the character of the person filling the top job which in
the US 1787 model was designed for Geo Washington but nobody gave a thought for
the bumbler John Adams as his successor. "The system worked," as they say.
   Back in grade school Jewish History there was perverse, outright perverted,
pride in onetime Senator Judah P. Benjamin (D, MS), CSA Secretary of the Treas-
ury and so-called "Brains of the Confederacy." As such he was in our kiddie
textbooks credited with the greatest Jewish miracle-working since the imaginary
Moses by keeping a government of a large country, whose armed forces were third
in West Civ behind Russia and the Union, functioning grosso modo for four years
without (for practical purposes) revenues.
   ****
   Now:
   1. Should anyone have been hung from a sour apple tree? And
   2. If yes, should it have been Davis or Benjamin? And
   3. If not, why let whoever-it-is live as the Mexicans most emphatically did
not the Emperor Maximilian (1867)?
   ****
   Been spending altogether too much time in Ancient Egypt lately (lastest: M.
Bernal, Black Athena, Vol. II; nobody can say, whatever else they may say, the
thing is not full of facts), so it occurs to me: If Grant is NOT buried in
Grant's Tomb, when did they notice his mummy was missing? And how come he
wasn't buried in the Valley of the Kings or Arlington Cemetery or whatever you
call it?

Daniel A. Foss, broken reed
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 14:18:15 EST
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         Bob Spore <SOSPORR@VCCSCENT.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: HELP GRANT'S TOMB!!!

Well said, Jim. Since the debate over Grant's Tomb has arisen, I can't help
wondering why it was built in New York City in the first place. Certainly, few
have argued that Grant would be remembered as a great president after his
death in 1885. Does anyone know how New York City won out over Grant's home
town, Arlington Cemetery, or a Civil War cemetery? Aside from the perennial
joke, is the tomb considered a major attraction? It appears to me that it
would be wiser (and cheaper) to consider a re-internment at a more "honored"
site.

Bob Spore
Virginia Community College System
Bitnet: SOSPORR@VCCSCENT
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 14:33:20 EDT
From:         Rafal Konopka <rafalk@PARALLEL.PARK.UGA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: History through Films
Comments: To: HISTORY@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu

> From: "Stephen C. Miller" <stcmille@COPPER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>

> This movie had a big effect on me when I was a kid - for stuff with a
> similar tone there's a wonderful movie by Eisenstein named after its
> hero that I'm blanking on right now - incredible Russian revolutionary
> socialist cinema with a very famous and awesome cavalry vs. footsoldier
> battle on ice at the end - Rubelov??

The movie you're referring to is "Alexander Nevsky"

Rafal Konopka
Department of English
University of Georgia
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Sun, 5 Apr 1992 14:29:57 EST
From:         Tom <RICKS@VILLVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: HELP GRANT'S TOMB!!!
              3 Apr 1992 06:02:28 GMT from <imj1@CUNIXA.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>

Imad-
Thanks for the warning about Grant's Tomb. I suggest that you contact the Civil
 War News and place a short notice, or ask for an interview with them. The news
paper is circulated among 15,000 Civil War reinactors who share your strong fee
lings about Civil War monuments - I myself will put a number of units on notice
who are with the Mifflin Guard.

Looking forward to your notice and thanks again for the plea!

Tom
28th Penn. IV, C Co.
Philadelphia, PA
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 07:43:37 MST
From:         Skip Knox <DUSKNOX@IDBSU.BITNET>
Subject:      Crusades textbooks

Hans Eberhard Mayer has what is probably the most widely used textbook
on the history of the Crusades, titled (in the tradition of Germanic
playfulness) "The Crusades."  It is, however, beginning to show its
age (originally published 1965).  Has anyone used a different book in
an upper division history course and if so could they please give me
a quick assessment?

Ellis "Skip" Knox       dusknox@idbsu.idbsu.edu
PC Coordinator & Faculty Computer Lab Supervisor
Professor of History
Boise State University  Boise, Idaho
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 16:57:16 PDT
From:         "Robert B. Pasker" <rbp@SUTRO.SFSU.EDU>
Subject:      the social history list

i have started a social history mailing list.  if you would like to be
on it, please reply to this message.  it is temporarily housed here at
sfsu until a listserv site can be found to support it.  if you
previously sent me mail but you did not receive the welcome message
which went out this afternoon, then for some reason i was unable to
add your address and you should tell me again (there were a couple of
messages to which i could not respond).

thanks, bob pasker
rbp@sutro.sfsu.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 02:16:11 -0400
From:         Thomas Anthony Greene <tg1j+%ANDREW.CMU.EDU@CARNEGIE.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: the social history list

I don't know how much I will be able to add to the discussions, since I
am only a junior undergrad, but I would also be interested being added
to the list.  My only concern is that I am on an Internet machine, and
am unsure as to my being able to recieve bitnet mail...

Thomas Greene
Dept. of History
Carnegie-Mellon University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 92 01:00:37 CST
Reply-To:     History <HISTORY@IRLEARN>
From:         "LHNELSON --UKANVM" <LHNELSON@UKANVM>
Subject:      Re: Latin Dictionary on PC?


You're quite welcome, Dusty. That's an excellent idea about putting the
wordlist on the wordperfect SPELLER.

For anyone else who is interested, I compiled this Latin wordlist for the use
of students in the University of Kansas graduate program, and limited its size
because most of our people were using rather slow machines. For this reason,
there are deficiencies in its coverage. Over the past year, however, most
students have upgraded and we will be increasing the size of the wordlist this
summer. We also have LATGRAMM stored in ftp kuhub.cc.ukans. edu cd malin. This
is a simple compilation of endings and their identifications, together with
an explanation of the uses of the various cases. It's useful if you are just
starting out in Latin, or if you have a poor memory. :-)

I will shortly be adding full citation bibliographies of recent books in
English on: Arthur's Britain, the Crusades, Medieval Military History,
Medieval Spain, Medieval Heroes (Beowulf, Roland, Cid, and Francis), Roman
Republic, Roman Empire, Roman Britain, Roman Law. We have several others in
preparation, and I will keep you posted as they are placed in MALIN.

Lynn

Lynn_Nelson
Department of History
University of Kansas
From: v064lnev@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Avatar)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Jefferson Davis (?)
Date: 9 Apr 92 12:27:00 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Hello Historians...

	I would like to think I am well versed in civil war history, however, I
have been bothered by one question that I have not been able to find an answer
to.  Perhaps someone out there can help me...
	What happenned to Jefferson Davis after Lee surrendered at Appomatox
(sp?) Courthouse?
                                       .
                                     .' `.                                      
___________________________________.'-{*}-`.____________________________________
Zerxes M. Bhagalia                '---------` TCP: v064lnev@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
State University of New York   .---------------.    bhaga-z@acsu.buffalo.edu    
  at Buffalo                 .'                 `.  BIT: v064lnev@ubvms.bitnet
Recovering Engineer        .'                     `.  Director, News Information
Computer Science         .'________MDCCLXXVI________`.    Division, WFFT 90.5 FM
---------------------N O V U S   O R D O   S E C L O R U M----------------------
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 15:20:00 EDT
From:         DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Historical Accuracy

On Thu, 9 Apr 1992 14:37:14 EDT "Daniel A. Foss" <DFOSS@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU> said:
said:                                                                   e prose
                                                                        lieve
> the place to take LSD was I recall Venice Beach in 1970-1971          ith one
                                                                        ard; the
The place to take LSD was in your head.                                 ont one
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 14:53:00 +08:00
From:         S30285@BC750.BITNET
Subject:      The Papers of Robert Morrison

Dear Colleagues,
        For several years I have been working on a project which will
culminate in the publication of an edition of the papers of Robert
Morrison (the first Protestant missionary to China 1807-34; born 1782;
died 1834).  I have secured several research grants which have enabled
this work to continue.  I am still in the collection stage of the project
and have been a bit overwhelmed by the extent of the papers still in
existence.  They are widely scattered throughout Asia, Europe and the United
States (and perhaps even other areas).  I have already secured the pertinent
papers from the London Missionary Society's collections, as well as the large
holdings at the Wellcome Institute for the History of Medicine.

        I wish to obtain copies of all correspondence both TO and FROM Robert
Morrison.  While I have collected a great deal already, it has become pain-
fully clear that there is still a lot "out there" that I have not yet seen.
I would be most grateful if you would send me a note if you know of any
papers related to Morrison.  Thus far, I am finding it easier to locate
papers written by Morrison rather than to him as most of the indices are
indexed by author rather than recipient.  Morrison wrote to many people
all over the world, and I have already found that in many collections there
are the odd letters that I would not normally be able to find.  If you now of
such materials, if possible, please send me the appropriate name and address
of the depository so that I can follow up.

        While these materials are in public depositories, I suspect there
are some in privately-held collections as well.  If you know of any of these
please let me know.

        For those of you in Europe, I know that Morrison corresponded with
people in France, Germany, Switzerland, Portugal, Italy, the Netherlands,
and several Scandinavian countries.  Thus far, I am having more difficulty
locating these materials.  If you have any good suggestions, please let men
me know.

        Finally, does anybody know the addresses of any computer networks such
as this History network which would be accessed by scholars of religion,
theology, religious history, etc.?  If so, I would be most grateful for the
appropriate address.

        Thank you for your time and consideration.

J. Barton Starr
Reader in History
Hong Kong Baptist College
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Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 16:22:19 -0400
From:         Agnes Kruchio <kruchio@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject:      Re: request for info on history lists etc.
Comments: To: HISTORY@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
              Apr 14, 92 1:31 pm

 Norman Coombs
( Rochester Institute of Technology) writes:

>      I have been off this list for many months and am trying to squeeze time
 to
> keep up with it again.  I recall seeing passing info about other history
 lists:
> histec-l and I think one on world history.  Does anyone have a comprehensive
> list of history lists?
>      Also, I recall noticing something about an anonymous ftp site with some
> history documents.  Can anyone catch me up to speed, please?

As I a new-ish recruit, I would also be interested in some such
information; where, for example, is histec-l located? (I assume that
is "history of technology".) Would anyone have an address they could post
please? And is there a list for history of science? What about
intellectual and European history (not necessarily synonymous, of course!)

THX
A.Kruchio
<kruchio@epas.utoronto.ca>
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Original_To:  HISTORY
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 21:55:00 EST
From:         BROWNH@CTSTATEU.BITNET
Subject:      social history

Robert, which do I prefer, Toynbee or Spengler? Well, I probably agree
to a large extent with current scholarly opinion of both: Spengler is
far more important and respectable than he is often seen in US circles,
and Toynbee far less so. But I hold neither up as positive models.  I
only prefer Spengler because I thrilled reading him as a 'teenager, and
I could never warm to Toynbee.

About the only thing I like about Toynbee is that he is a conflict
theorist, but in this he is hardly original. Does anyone know if his
notion derives directly from Gumplowicz? In any case, Ibn Khaldun de-
serves the title of father of conflict theory among historians, al-
though I suspect the basis of the idea lies at the foundation of Wes-
tern feudal and modern culture.

What world historians do I admire? Believe it or not, who comes immedi-
ately to mind is H.G. Wells and Winwood Reade. There is much to admire
in implicit world historians such as Bodin, Marx, and Adam Ferguson.
But when it comes down to it, I believe historiography serves a quite
different function in the 20th century (somewhat for the reasons pro-
posed in Plumb's The Death of the Past), and I cannot point to any
world history that adequately meets our modern requirements. Spengler
and Toynbee are arguably products of 19th century thinking, and I have
serious reservations about a McNeill or Braudel. I don't believe a mo-
dern world history adequate to our times exists. Incidentally, the
word "universal" in the 20th century simply means the total environ-
ment, and has not for a long time had metaphysical implications.

Haines Brown  (brownh@ccsu.ctstateu.edu)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history,alt.noise
From: cheating@ccvm.sunysb.edu (harrangue)
Subject: Re: Spanish heraldry
Followup-To: alt.noise,bit.listserv.words-l,misc.test,rec.arts.poems,soc.culture.usa,talk.bizarre
Keywords: H760
Organization: Mollusk Infrastructure
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1992 14:25:36 GMT

What mottoe might that have been?  I can't seem to remove the ones from
off of the floor, so it may yet be there -- for my future reference.  So
many to choose from!  Lions with crowns holding sabres, snakes entwining
bottles, ships asea with all square sheets to the wind -- oh, blast, I'm
thinking of Galway again; I do that, now and again, pondering if in fact
I'm resisting the same set of deft escapades (obligatory) ... but should
there be any doubt?  Such shrill recriminations (for being in such a sad
state merely through the mention of your name), and I'd hoped so for the
tragic embrace pushing past holiday revelers returning home as storefront
Santas chime in on the nature of giving and junk slag fixes and the music
reaches now crescendo (crash! bam! boom! bang!) and then the necessarily
brief promises of unrequited failsafe routines, after this long drought.
So is this how it is -- you follow on all the bit.listserv newsgroups?
Fear not, I shall not ditch you, nor heraldry, without fulfilling on at
least one of those promises to catch you as catch can to the quick in yr
quietest moments.  To keep attentiveness, I shall pose: can any of the
very learned out there recommend a good read on the history of paranoia,
particularly as it pertains to the sickness of young lovers?  She may
kill me yet, if either of us has our way.  Nary a BAD FORM to behold;
best be careful, you seem to be learning to read.


or so she said.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 17:49:00 EDT
From:         Stephen Amster <SAMSTER@WHEATNMA.BITNET>
Subject:      Partial listing of Hist lists

String to Search For: hist

AHC-L            AHC-L@DGOGWDG1    Association for History & Computing
AMERCATH         AMERCATH@UKCC     AMERCATH - A DISCUSSION LIST ON THE HISTORY O

ASEH-L           ASEH-L@TTUVM1     AMERICAN SOCIETY OF ENVIRONMENTAL HISTORIANS
BUDDHIST         BUDDHIST@JPNTOHOK Forum on Indian and Buddhist Studies
                 BUDDHIST@JPNTUVM0 Forum on Indian and Buddhist Studies
CAAH             CAAH@PUCC         CONSORTIUM OF ART AND ARCHITECTURAL HISTORIAN

EMHIST-L         EMHIST-L@RUTVM1   (Peered) EMHIST-L Early Modern History Forum
                 EMHIST-L@USCVM    (Peered) EMHIST-L Early Modern History Forum
ESPORA-L         ESPORA-L@UKANVM   History of the Iberian Peninsula
FRANCEHS         FRANCEHS@UWAVM    FRANCEHS List for french history scholars
GRMNHIST         GRMNHIST@DGOGWDG1 (Peered) GRMNHIST - German History Forum
                 GRMNHIST@USCVM    (Peered) GRMNHIST - German History Forum
HABSBURG         HABSBURG@PURCCVM  Austrian History since 1500
HIST-L           HIST-L@UKANVM     (Peered) History - Peer Distribution List
HISTEC-L         HISTEC-L@UKANVM   History of evangelical Christianity
HISTORY          HISTORY@DGOGWDG1  (Peered) History
                 HISTORY@FINHUTC   (Peered) History
                 HISTORY@IRLEARN   (Peered) History
                 HISTORY@RUTVM1    (Peered) History
                 HISTORY@UBVM      (Peered) History
                 HISTORY@UMRVMB    (Peered) History Discussion List
HISTORYA         HISTORYA@UWAVM    HISTORYA History Department
HISTORYF         HISTORYF@UWAVM    LISTNAME History Faculty
HISTOWNR         HISTOWNR@UBVM     HistOwnr - Discussion list for owners of hist

KUHIST-L         KUHIST-L@UKANVM   History at KU
L-CHA            L-CHA@UQAM        Canadian Hist. Association Conference on Comp

SHOTHC-L         SHOTHC-L@SIVM     History of Computing Issues
THYST-L          THYST-L@BROWNVM   Thistle Discussion List
WORLD-L          WORLD-L@UBVM      World-L - Forum on non-Eurocentric world hist

-----------------------------

Hope this helps.  It's just a listing of all lists with 'hist' in their titles
taken from the larger Global list of lists available from any listserver on
request.
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