HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: U53734%uicvm.uic.edu@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU (Wesley Bielinski)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: IL/IN regulations
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:40:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: uicvm.92280.120603U53734
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

In article <1992Oct3.214637.27198@midway.uchicago.edu>,
haase@vogon.uchicago.edu (Mark Haase) says:
#
#Dear Users,
#
#I recently discovered (as a new resident of Illinois) that some target
#ranges (possibly all) in Illinois require an Illinois firearms ID card
#to utilize their facilities and to *rent* are firearm.  Does anyone know
#whether Indiana has similar such regulations?  Moreover, does anyone know
#of any ranges that exist ouside Chicago, off 65, or possibly in the
#city of Indianapolis?  Just interested in any recommendations.
#
#Thanks very much.
#
#Sincerely,
#
#Chris Haase

Actually, you have to have an Firearm Owner's Identification Card (FOID)
to purchase a gun and/or ammo.  You can get an application at any gun
shop and it costs $5, but you probably know that now.

Wesley J. Bielinski                    | "I love my country,
SGT, USAR       U53734@uicvm.uic.edu   |   it's my government I fear!"
12th Special Forces Group (Airborne)   |

PS  I tried to e-mail this but it was kicked back.
From: watt-alan@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .40 Black Talon Oddities
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:57:59 GMT
Organization: Yale University, Computing & Information Systems


In article <19226@smoke.brl.mil>, gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes:
|> 
|> In article <9209280513.AA03994@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> jimfost@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Jim Foster) writes:
|> #"Winchester Safety Blossoms: Real Flower Power! The choice of 9 of 10 hippie 
|> #handgun enthusiasts!"
|> 
|> Reminds me of the suggestion I once heard that one could reduce legal
|> hassles in case of a self-defense shooting if his carry gun was
|> decorated appealingly, e.g. with pastel colors, cartoon characters
|> (but NOT Yosemite Sam), etc.
|> 

Massad Ayoob has a cut-down .44 magnum he calls "Fluffy, my pet Magnum".

	"Yes, officer, he was very aggressive and threatening and I
	thought a little discussion with Fluffy here would calm him
	down."
-- 
  Alan S. Watt
  Yale University			Computing and Information Systems
  Box 2112 Yale Station			(203) 432-6602
  New Haven, CT  06520-2112		Watt-Alan@Yale.Edu
From: watt-alan@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: Carry in public places
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:29:51 GMT
Organization: Yale University, Computing & Information Systems


In article <1act6sINN1cp@bigboote.WPI.EDU>, wrm@friskie.WPI.EDU (William Michalson) writes:
|> There has been much bantering here about "legal carry" in the peoples
|> republic of massachusetts.  Is there anyone who knows of specific
|> sections in the General Laws that spell out restrictions on carry?
|> 
|>   ....

If our humble moderator will bear with yet another posting on this topic
(this is information: really!), I suggest anyone living in Massachussetts
contact the Gun Owner's Action League (GOAL).  They are very active on
behalf of gun owners and far more effective than the political climate
there would naturally suggest.

They should be able to tell you (1) what the law says, and (2) how it
is enforced.  And I'm sure they would welcome a new member.

If you own a gun, you should belong to (1) the NRA, and (2) your state
NRA-affiliated organization, and other national or local organizations
which work for your interests, to the extent your pocketbook can afford.
They're working hard out there to keep your hobby legal and they need
your support to do it.  End of soapbox; thank you Mr. Moderator.
-- 
  Alan S. Watt
  Yale University			Computing and Information Systems
  Box 2112 Yale Station			(203) 432-6602
  New Haven, CT  06520-2112		Watt-Alan@Yale.Edu

[MODERATOR:  welll ..... okay, Allan does have good info..... ]
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 1911 10mm mag for sale
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:57:46 GMT
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

I have a springfield mag for a 1911 10mm, very
good condition. $15 gets it to your mailbox.

-c

*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu 
* for sale: Springfield Armory Factory Comp, 38 Super, +3 mags. All new
* in box (never fired at all).  $650 or best offer over $600 as of Sep 30.
From: rnoguchi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ryan Alexander Noguchi)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock doesn't *need* a safety (Re: .40 S&W Help Sought)
Date: 3 Oct 92 20:37:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: phoenix.9210031728.AA22328
Organization: Princeton University

In article <1992Oct3.073823.18836@netcom.com> tmi@netcom.com (Peter Alan
Kasler) writes:
#In <1992Oct2.182959.19963@netcom.com> messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk) writes:
##In fact, you can order Glock with different trigger pulls.  I believe
##that 8.5 lb is available.  Check with your local friendly dealer.
#
#	Glock pistols are available with various combinations of
#trigger "pull" and "feel" -- most civilian Glocks leave the factory
#with the "standard" 5-pound trigger. The connector that provides the
#5-pound trigger resistance can be changed to an 8-pound connector
#(part costs <$6.00; labor = <10 minutes). Another way to achieve an
#8-pound trigger is to add a standard New York trigger spring (which
#replaces the standard coil-type trigger spring) to the 5-pound
#connector (part costs <$3.00; labor = <10 minutes). If even greater
#trigger force is desired, a NY+ trigger spring can be used with the
#5-pound connector to provide about 11-pounds of trigger force.

But don't add the New York trigger spring (in either strength) to the
8 pound connector unless you like to live on the edge of engineering
tolerances... ;-)  The New York trigger spring tends to even up the
trigger pull; makes it feel more like a revolver.
 
- Ryan                               rnoguchi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU
===================================================================
"We, too, born to freedom, and believing in freedom, are willing to 
fight to maintain freedom. We, and all others who believe as deeply
as we do, would rather die on our feet than live on our knees."-FDR
===================================================================
From: tarl@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Tarl Neustaedter)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Silencer questions
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:14:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: transfer.6903
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.


In article <1992Sep29.123738.478@email.tuwien.ac.at>, robert@cuba.vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Robert Glock) writes:
# - How much of the bang do they _really_ suppress (I don't think movies
#   are good reference 8-) )? Could you compare the resulting noise 
#   to some everyday noise?

At the last machine-gun shoot I went to, there was a silencer-equipped UZI.
The .45 slugs hitting the car downrange were louder than the sound of the
action cycling a few yards away. Not knowing ahead of time what was going 
on, I would not have guessed that shots were coming from somewhere close
by me - I would have looked in the direction of the car (target).

This was .45s - undoubtedly subsonic. A 9mm silencer would likely be much
less effective. I know the silencer-equipped M-16s (.223) were not nearly
as quiet. [You had no doubt where the gunshots were coming from, and that
they were gunshots, but you didn't need hearing protection].
-- 
         Tarl Neustaedter	tarl@sw.stratus.com
         Marlboro, Mass.	Stratus Computer
Disclaimer: My employer is not responsible for my opinions.
From: rnoguchi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ryan Alexander Noguchi)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .40 S&W Help Sought
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:39:15 GMT
Organization: Princeton University

In article <1992Sep27.132956.29775@ke4zv.uucp> wa4mei!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu writes:
#In article <9209261635.AA29291@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> rnoguchi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ryan Alexander Noguchi) writes:
##If you take a Glock and replace its Safe-Action operating system with a
##squeeze cocker ala H&K, it's still a Glock; i.e. it still has all the
##other features of a Glock, but it's a bit safer in practice since you
##can make it "safe."  Ditto with simply giving it a frame-mounted safety.
##The latter shouldn't be too difficult an engineering problem, and one
##could always choose to ignore it in use, leaving him with the original
##Glock operating system.  It'd certainly ease a lot of minds unaccustomed
##to the thought of holstering  what essentially acts as a Condition
##Zero piece.  If I recall correctly, this was Massad Ayoob's only beef
##with the Glock.
#
#Since the Glock system gives you, in practice, the exact same safety
#as a transfer bar equipped revolver, and most people have little concern
#about holster carrying loaded revolvers, I fail to see the issue. *If*
#you are terrified of carrying a loaded revolver, *then* I can see that
#the Glock is not for you. The Glock was designed to be a revolver 
#replacement with more firepower for police and personal defense use.
#Manual safeties are not popular on revolvers, so there isn't one on
#the Glock either.

Well, I'd personally pass on a "revolver" with a ~5 lb double
action trigger pull myself.  One of the main advantages of the
traditional semiautomatic is the reduced trigger pull for at least the
second and subsequent shots, making followup hits easier.  This
advantage is lost with DAO semiautos and revolvers.  For all intents and
purposes, the Glock with the New York trigger or heavy connector or
whatever for an 8-12 lb pull *IS* a double-action only weapon, and
therefore needs a safety about as much as any revolver.  However, a
standard 5lb triggered Glock needs a safety IMHO just as much as any
cocked-and-unlocked (Condition Zero) pistol.  I'm not worried about
dropping the piece (I understand they were dropped cocked out of
helicopters and out of moving cars without discharging) but in
inadvertent AD's when reholstering in an inside-pants holster in the
wake of a shooting incident, for instance.  There's also the 
"proprietary to the user" factor if your sidearm is snatched from your
holster.


- Ryan                               rnoguchi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU
===================================================================
"We, too, born to freedom, and believing in freedom, are willing to 
fight to maintain freedom. We, and all others who believe as deeply
as we do, would rather die on our feet than live on our knees."-FDR
===================================================================
From: minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov (Minh Lang)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 223 case sizing question
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:13:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: elroy.9209301750.AA05341
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory

Hi, I just started loading .223 for my T/C 14". I bought a
Redding 2-die-set. The first one does sizing/depriming/expanding.
However, after I resized/deprimed/expanded the case, I have
trouble putting the bullet (55g .224 FMJ) on the case mouth. It
looks like that the mouth wasn't expanded large enough for
the bullet. I had to force it by hand for the bullet to barely sit a
little
in the case mouth so I can put the round into the bullet
seating die without the bullet falling out (but it still fell out 
pretty often when I pull the press handle)
I'm wondering is this normal ? If not, what did I do wrong? 
As the neck expander is not adjustable like the one for pistol.
BTW, the die-set is brand new and .223 was stamped on the dies.
 I would really appreciate any help. Thank you very much.

  == Minh ==
+------------------------------------------------------------+
 Minh Lang, Software Engineer  - Jet Propulsion Laboratory
 Instrumentation Systems Group - Instrumentation section 375
 Note:  My employer has nothing to do with what I said here...
+------------------------------------------------------------+
From: km4ba!alan@kd4nc.ampr.org (Alan Barrow)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AMT Backup .380 problems...
Date: 28 Sep 92 11:21:10 GMT
Organization: km4ba's packet radio gateway


In <4r9nr7+@lynx.unm.edu> boardman%cancer.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Bob Boardman) writes:

#  high quality as a SIG, but many people have found it to be an optimum
#  trade-off between power and concealability.  It is well known that
#  SOME .380 Backups exhibit feeding problems as they come from the factory.
#  As one gunsmith descibed it to me, "There are 2 kinds of .380 Backups -
#  those that feed just fine, and those that don't".  He had sold many

Very true words....

My brother had a .380 backup for several years. (Wore it at my wedding!)
It never failed, and we plinked quite a bit with it. 

This is just one data point, but there does seem to be two categories.

#  Backups, and was of the opinion that close to half of them needed a little
#  work to get them feeding reliably.  He said that of those with feeding
#  problems, almost all of them could be fixed with just a little polishing
#  of the feed ramp, since the usual cause of the misfeeding was milling
#  marks left on the feed ramp.  When I bought mine, there were very
#  visible milling marks on the feed ramp, which I removed with less than
#  15 minutes work with silicon carbide paper (#240, then #320, then #400),

Before we slam AMT too hard on this, I will mention the Colt Commander
in .38 super I bought new for 2-3X the cost of an AMT backup that needed
the same work done to function reliably. (It was worse because 
the factory loads for .38 super at the time used .38 hollowpoints 
which did not feed well. Using 9mm bullets cured the problem.)

Still, I would only buy an AMT from a dealer I trusted to make it good.

Good Luck!

Alan Barrow
From: edhresko@hresko.EOS.NCSU.EDU (ERIC DAVID HRESKO)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Silencer questions
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:39:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: ncsu.1992Oct6.155410.20869
Organization: Techno-Geeks Inc.



|>In article <1992Oct1.043422.20389@netcom.com> geo@netcom.com (George Pontis) writes:
|>(I said the first shot through a silencer is louder than others)
|>#I could be your hearing that's changing ! There is a mechanism in one's
|>#ear that can temporarily reduce the ear's sensitivity to protect it against
|>#loud noises. 
|>
|>Yes, that would work for a gun WITHOUT a silencer. With one, there is
|>so little noise that it CAN'T affect hearing. If you shoot in the


	I dunno.  At the gun club I belong to, we had a guy bring out a bunch
of silenced and full auto stuff, and I shot an MP5SD.  The pop on the gun
was definitely reduced, but just on the threshold of causing my ears to ring
a bit...
-- 


Eric

******************************************************************************
Eric Hresko		* Mail:  edhresko@eos.ncsu.edu                       * 
Kanki House of Steaks   * Voice: (why would you want to call?) 1-919-821-5168*
Dishwasher 2nd Class    * HK Rules!!! (But a FAL will do in a pinch)         *
DISCLAIMER:  I don't wear sandals, eat granola, or tiptoe thru the Tulips    *
******************************************************************************
From: harrism@aquila.rtp.dg.com (Mike Harris)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Dillon 650 review - questions answered
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:02:40 GMT
Organization: Data General Corp., Research Triangle Park, NC

In article <D2150096.pjcno4@sproul.sproul.com>, Sproul@sproul.sproul.com (Mark Sproul) writes:
|> 
|> In response to some questions about the Dillon 650:
|> 
|> # 
|> # How often does the motor run (every time a case is extracted, or
|> # when the tube is empty?).
|> 
|> The motor on the case feeder is quite, it has two speeds, and it runs
|> every time a case is extracted.
|> 
|> 
|> Also, when setting up the machine, it takes q fair amount of effort
|> due to the fact that it always wants to rotate the shell plate.  This
|> makes adjusting the powder measure and the bullet seating die a little
|> bit more involved.

	Can the auto indexing be disabled? I found with the Dillon 550
	that I never missed auto-indexing as it's part of the natural
	flow for your hand. I also often thought that auto-indexing *would*
	be a pain for the same reasons. 
	
	It's a shame, though, as it appears they bowed to marketing
	pressures as auto-indexing was always listed as *missing* when
	comparisions were made in reviews.

	My bets as to '650 futures are that we'll see 1) easy switch
	to manual indexing, and 2) case feeder motor that runs only
	when the feed tube is near empty.
From: U53734%uicvm.uic.edu@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU (Wesley Bielinski)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: Carry in public places
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:40:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: uicvm.92280.114700U53734
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

In article <1992Oct1.142553.16633@news.yale.edu>, watt-alan@net.yale.edu (Alan
Watt) says:
#If our humble moderator will bear with yet another posting on this topic
#(this is information: really!), I suggest anyone living in Massachussetts
#contact the Gun Owner's Action League (GOAL).  They are very active on
#behalf of gun owners and far more effective than the political climate
#there would naturally suggest.
#
#They should be able to tell you (1) what the law says, and (2) how it
#is enforced.  And I'm sure they would welcome a new member.

Would you (or anyone) happen to know about the CW laws in Illinois,  I'd
really hate to have to defend my second amendment rights in court because
I didn't have the proper permit/license to carry a concealed weapon.

Wesley J. Bielinski                    | "I love my country,
SGT, USAR       U53734@uicvm.uic.edu   |   it's my government I fear!"
12th Special Forces Group (Airborne)   |
Xref: sparky rec.guns:13875 talk.politics.guns:21770
From: sun330!brath@uunet.UU.NET (Mario N. Brathwaite)
Newsgroups: rec.guns,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Gunning down children (was Children and toy guns...)
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:39:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: almserv.1992Oct6.114806.11621
Followup-To: talk.politics.guns
Organization: Fannie Mae

In article <9210051903.AA26165@outmail.microsoft.com> davidst@microsoft.com (David  
Steckler) writes:

[ SNIP SNIP SNIP 8< ]
#Considering how many cops are gunned down by "children" each year, I don't
#see your argument as correct. Cops put their lives on the line each day
#with "kids" pointing _real_ guns at them. The cop who responded to the alarm
#at my wife's school _did_ put his life on the line by _not_ shooting the
#kid who pointed a gun at him.
#
#Maybe in some distant, golden past, when 9-year olds weren't running drug 
#deal interference, when there weren't drug-related drive by shootings at the
#suburban mall where I get my hair cut, maybe back then cops could assume
#that an armed child was actually carrying a toy, chuckle and show the kid
#the bullets on his belt. Nowdays, the officer is just as likely to see the
#kid's bullets, up close and personal.

Has there been a rash of 9-year olds running around your state forming cop-killing gangs?
Inquiring minds want to know. 

I do not argue the point that children have been used as front "men" for the drug trade. In 
fact, last year on Long Island NY (my former home) a 10-year old was used to sell drugs. 
That however doesn't mean that he's taking pot shots at law men.

--
Mario N. Brathwaite (brath@fnma.com)
"By any means necessary." -- El Hajj Malik Al-Shabazz ( Malcolm X )

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed herein do not represent FNMA's in any form.
From: vojak@icebucket.stortek.com (Bill Vojak)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Glock system
Date: 29 Sep 92 00:04:05 GMT
Organization: Storage Technology Corp.

wa4mei!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:

#Since the Glock system gives you, in practice, the exact same safety
#as a transfer bar equipped revolver, and most people have little concern
#about holster carrying loaded revolvers, I fail to see the issue. *If*
#you are terrified of carrying a loaded revolver, *then* I can see that
#the Glock is not for you. The Glock was designed to be a revolver 
#replacement with more firepower for police and personal defense use.
#Manual safeties are not popular on revolvers, so there isn't one on
#the Glock either.


 No way! I've owned both DA revolvers and a Glock 19.  There is
 a huge difference between a Glock and a DA revolver.  About 7lbs
 of pull.  A Glock with a round chambered has about the same pull
 as a revolver, (or my SIG 228), in SA mode.  THAT'S what use to
 make me nervous about the Glock.  Granted the trigger pull is longer on
 the Glock.  And yes I know: Keep your finger off the trigger and the
 gun won't go bang.  That still doesn't mean that I considered
 their system ideal.  A safety would have made me alot more
 comfortable with the Glock.  My SIG has a smooth 12.X lb DA trigger,
 plus the visual feedback of a moving hammer. I like their system,
 and it doesn't have a safety on it.


                                Bill Vojak
                                Bill_Vojak@stortek.com
                                NRA, ILA, CFC

------------------------------------------------------------
The CBS Nightly Propaganda With Dan Rather. (RATHER NOT!)
------------------------------------------------------------
From: klofgren@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Bart Man )
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: GUN SHOWS
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:04:20 GMT



Two questions:

1)  Which is the better gun show a) Del Mar or/ b) Costa Mesa?  I want
    to find the best deal of course!

2)  What is the usual procedure for purchasing a gun at a show in CA.?
    I know that the 15 wait still applies..., but how is payment and such
    worked out?  Full payment at the show, or $$$ down and the rest upon
    receiving the firearm???  Most of the vendors would not be from my town
    (San Diego), so the gun would have to be sent to a local dealer for me.
    How does this complicate things?

Thanks,

Brent          please e-mail to: klofgren@sdcc13.ucsd.edu

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Brent Kronenberg   bkronenb@sdcc13.ucsd.edu    GLOCK. There is NO substitute!
		   klofgren@sdcc13.ucsd.edu
From: nsc!jrr@decwrl.dec.com (Jerry Roe)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Handgun Ammunition Debate
Date: 26 Sep 92 15:38:49 GMT
Organization: National Semiconductor, Santa Clara


In article <1992Sep17.203930.17609@news.yale.edu> watt-alan@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt) writes:
#
...
#
#At one point in the article Dr. Fackler states:
#
#	"Luck is a factor that cannot be ignored. Sometimes an
#	apparently well-placed bullet will just miss every important
#	structure you think it should hit.  Several well-placed hits is
#	the only way to get around the luck problem."
...
#
#Fackler also criticises the methodology Evan Marshall uses in coming
#up with his numbers; several posters here have made similar comments.
#Basically, Marshall throws out of his survey any incident with
#multiple torso hits.

Well, Fackler is right, and he's (in my opinion) wrong.  Right in the
sense that sure, luck is always going to be a factor, whether good or
bad.  But the criticism of Marshall's methodology, as I've pointed
out here before, misses the point.  When Marshall discards multiple-
torso hits, he's doing so because the statistic he's measuring is:
*in those cases where there's only one torso hit*, what percentage
of them are stoppers?  In other words, if there's only one torso hit,
the guy either stops hostilities, or he doesn't.  He's not measuring
how many shots it takes to put someone down - he's measuring which
round will do it the most reliably *when there's only one hit in a
vital area*.  The reason he throws out the multiple-hit cases is that
he can't tell if it would have been a one-shot stop or not, since
there was more than one hit.  Some of them may well have been one-
shot stops and the guy was on his way down but the shooter pumped
another round into him anyway - not an uncommon occurrence, I believe.
But Marshall has no way of proving whether or not that was the case, so
he eliminates it from consideration.


Jerry Roe
jrr@nsc.nsc.com		...!{sun,pyramid,decwrl)!nsc!jrr