HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ron@pageworks.com (Ron Creamer)
Subject: Sybase, Ingres, or Interbase? 
Reply-To: ron@pageworks.com (Ron Creamer)
Organization: PageWorks Electronic Publishing Centers
Distribution: usa 
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1992 19:36:50 GMT
Keywords: sybase ingres interbase jam 

I'm very near plunking down a lot of money for an SCO UNIX based 
dbms. I've narrowed the field down to Ingres, Sybase and Interbase. We 
are looking for both a back-end and front-end tools. In general, the 
application will help us manage a chain of electronic publishing 
service bureaus that essentially receive jobs (files) via disk, e-
mail, ftp, bbs or couriers, on a variety of media which will then be 
run through a variety of Postscript output devices such as film 
recorders, color printers, color separators, imagesetters, and the 
final product will then run through QC and then shipped and invoiced 
from any location within our system. (All stores linked via T1s)

We will be making heavy use of traditionally non-dbms services 
provided by UNIX (scanning, ftp, mail, fax <-> Xwindows, file 
compression, etc.) hopefully via triggers, events, and System calls.

We've talked to all the major vendors, and they seem primarily 
trained to speak to larger corporations that are "downsizing" not a 
smaller company "upsizing", thus getting answers to our questions has 
been difficult.

Although impressed with Sybase and Ingres, we are leaning towards 
Interbase due to their advance handling of BLOBS (in our case, fax 
files, and the compressed jobs themselves) but we are hesitant to 
commit to them because they seem to have a much smaller market 
presence, and much fewer front-end development tools than the others 
(Although this may change if you consider that they are now owned by 
Borland).

Does anybody have experience out there creating applications that are 
both transactional oriented with arbritraily large binary files with 
these dbms? Are there any major "gotchas" on these 3 systems given our 
application? We'd really appreciate anything you'd care to add. You 
may e-mail me directly and I'll post a summary if there is enough 
interest.

Hesitantly yours,

Ron Creamer

Ron Creamer
PageWorks, 36 JFK Street, Cambridge, MA 02138
617/868-2943, ron@pageworks.com
Newsgroups: comp.databases
From: paul@fraost.enet.dec.com (Oliver Paul)
Subject: Microsoft DB "Cirrus"
Reply-To: paul@paulus.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Frankfurt/Germany
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 08:06:13 GMT


Hi there,

does anybody have information on the Microsoft DB codenamed "Cirrus" ?

The only thing I know about it is the codename and that it will be
released this summer.

What are the features of "Cirrus" ?

Will it have a MS-Windows interface ?

Thanx in advance.

Bye,

oli

===========================================================================
Oliver Paul                      |
                                 |EASYnet: PAULUS::PAUL
Digital Equipment Corporation    |ALL-IN-1: Oliver Paul @FRO
International Systems Engineering|Internet: paul@paulus.enet.dec.com
Localization Center Frankfurt    |uucp: ...!decwrl!paulus.enet.dec.com!paul
===========================================================================
From: grx1344@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: Accessing dBASE files on VAX
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:35:07 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

 Hi! I need source code in (C or Pascal) to allow me to access (read and
 write) dBASE files on a VAX. If anybody knows where I can find such
 code, please E-Mail me. Thanks


	Nik Kalyani
        GRX1344@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.databases
From: GO.MSB@isumvs.iastate.edu 
Subject: Re: Anyone with experience with Recital?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 20:24:47 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.133306.1395@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>,
hwilliam@isis.cs.du.edu (Hywel Williams) writes:
>My company is taking a very serious look at Recital, a 4gl which claims
>to be xbase compatible.  Everything is looking good so far and everything
>that we hear and see is positive.
>
>Has anyone has a good/bad experience with this product?
>
>Any help is GREATLY appreciated...
>
>Please send any email to the address below of possible as email takes much
>longer to get through using the above email address!
>
>
>Cheer,
>
>--david
>        Care of: cshjw@pyr.swan.ac.uk
---------------------------------------------------------------
We are just evaluating Recital, but only in a limited way as we cannot get
it to run properly in out environment (NFS, but without file locking).
It emulates dBase III very well and has some added features of dBase IV
and FoxPro.  Our main complaint is the lack of context sensitive help.
You cannot enter  HELP command and get help, or if you are in an ASSIST
menu, no specific help.  HELP always gives a menu from which you must
wade through to find what is wanted--not always a trivial task.
We cannot access database files, so cannot comment on speed (our
machines are DEC 2100/3100 ULTRIX).  Earlier comments on the net
have indicated it was slow, but this probably depends on cpu.

Marvin Beck     Iowa State University
Newsgroups: comp.databases
From: raghavav@cs.rpi.edu (Vijay Raghavan)
Subject: Re: Implementing Referential Integrity ( Possible in Oracle ?)
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Computer Science, Troy NY
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 14:04:33 GMT

In article <10414@inews.intel.com> kortikar@mipos2.intel.com (Aniruddha Kortikar) writes:
>Consider following tables
>
>Item-vendor table				Vendor Table
>-----------------------				----------------------------
>Item_code,vendor_code				vendor_code,name,address etc.
>
>Following rules have to observed
>
>1. Vendor can not be deleted if used in item-vendor table.
>2. every vendor in item-vendor table must be present in vendor table.
>Rule 1 - can be enforced by putting appropriate triggers (key-delrec etc)
>	 in data entry programs of vendor table.
>Rule 2 - this is a problem issue.
>
>Consider following scenario
>
>Time 	User1 Action			User 2 Action
>
>10:30   Selected Add data 
>        For Adding Data into 
>	Item-vendor table
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	Assume you are adding v1. For any database system which uses two phase
locking. It will have to do a read on on Vendor to verify existance of v1. 
Thus placing a lock on it. This will prevent User 2 from deleting it. Check
out Phantom problems in any good book. User 2 should not be able to delete.

>
>10:31  Checked existence of vendor     
>       code v1
>
>10:33					deleted vendor v1
>					(Succedded because there was
>  					 no entry in item-vendor table)
>
>					Commited.
>10:35  commited transaction.
>
>Now item-vendor table contains vendor which does not exist.
>
>(In any case how do other major RDBMS's handles issue of refrence checking ?)
>
Quite a few systems such DB2, Sybase etc do. 

My Question:

DO Any RDBMS support reference checking at COMMIT time? 


-- 
===============================================================================
Vijay Raghavan                     | We can sort things out together.
Dept of Comp Sc                    | 
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute   | Ph:(518)-276-4838  
Newsgroups: comp.databases
From: roycel@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Royce Lithgo)
Subject: Anyone heard of `Access RDM' produced by n.i.s?
Organization: Uni Computing Service, Uni of Sydney, Australia
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 01:28:49 GMT

I am using a system called RDM and would like to talk to anyone 
who has experience with it.

thanks in advance

Royce
From: mcopen@stiatl.salestech.com (Mark Copenhaver)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: Re: Can E-R express this?
Date: 10 Apr 92 21:08:25 GMT
Organization: Sales Technologies, Inc.

cimshop!davidm@uunet.UU.NET (David S. Masterson) writes:

>>>>>> On 5 Apr 92 05:01:17 GMT, Mischa_Sandberg@mindlink.bc.ca (Mischa
>>>>>> Sandberg) said:

>> In the  following, my shorthand is TABLE<PRIMARY KEY> NON-KEY ATTRIBUTES.

>> ORDER<ORDER#>
>> ORDER_DETAIL<ORDER#, PRODUCT#>
>> INVOICE<INVOICE#> ORDER#
>> INVOICE_DETAIL<INVOICE#, PRODUCT#>

>> i.e. there is a one-to-many relationship between:

>> ORDER and INVOICE
>> ORDER and ORDER_DETAIL
>> INVOICE and INVOICE_DETAIL

>> ... with which E-R diagrams have no problem. On the other hand, there is the
>> referential integrity constraint that an INVOICE_DETAIL must have an
>> ORDER_DETAIL. I can expres this algebraically, but the client doesn't dig
>> algebra. What am I missing?

>ORDER_DETAIL and INVOICE_DETAIL are many to many related on PRODUCT# (I assume
>you have a PRODUCT entity to go with this).  The referential integrity
>constraint says that ORDER_DETAIL and INVOICE_DETAIL must participate in this
>relationship.  Ultimately, what this says is that any PRODUCT that was ORDERed
>must have also been INVOICEd (a little strange time sequence in that the
>invoice would usually come after the order, but if that's what the customer
>wants... ;-)
>--

Right idea, but you got it backwards.  The referential integrity constraint
mentioned says that any PRODUCT that was INVOICEd must first have been
ORDEREd.  

Back to the original question, referential integrity means that a foreign
key in one entity refers to precisely one unique key in another entity.
If you do not have a foreign key in the INVOICE_DETAIL entity refering
to a unique key in the ORDER_DETAIL entity, then it's not a referential
integrity constraint, it's a business rule.

I'm not trying to play semantic games here, I just want to point out that
if INVOICE_DETAIL really is dependent on ORDER_DETAIL, then putting
a complete foreign key in the INVOICE_DETAIL table is not phony or
abnormal... it's expected.

Another thing you might want to consider is whether INVOICE_DETAIL and
ORDER_DETAIL are really seperate entities.  The constraint implies a
0:1 relationship.  0:1 and 1:1 relationships should always rais a red
flag which asks "Are you sure these aren't the same thing?".

Maybe something like this is appropriate:

ORDER<ORDER#>
ORDER_DETAIL<ORDER#, PRODUCT#> INVOICE#
INVOICE<INVOICE#> ORDER#


These are my thoughts, hope they help.


-- 
---
Mark Copenhaver              mcopen@salestech.com
Sales Technologies, Inc.
Atlanta  GA
From: vsystem@pa881a.inland.com
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: Paradox App. HELP!!!
Date: 8 Apr 92 13:57:41 GMT
Organization: Inland Steel Company, East Chicago, IN
Nntp-Posting-User: butzen

I am planning to write a Paradox based application networked primarily in 
Novell. The app. has to run in less than 640 K. Need to know a few things.
Sorry to repeat some questions that may have already been asked, but here goes:

1) How easy is Paradox engine to use? Does it interface cleanly with Turbo C++?
2) What minimum memory req. does a networked Paradox engine application need?
3) Has anybody developed a Paradox client-server app.? Care to comment?
4) What the hell are Novell NMLs and what would they have to do with a
   networked Paradox app. (I have a user worried sick about whether the app. 
   would 'support' NMLs.
5) Is there a good book that would help me with this kind of development?

				Thanx for reading this far. 
                                				Adarbad Master

"Answers are only as smart as the questions"
From: david@hccwmv2
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: Objectivity/DB ?
Date: 16 Apr 92 13:28:26 PDT
Organization: Health Care Computer Works, Las Vegas, Nevada

Does anyone have any experience with Objectivity/DB from Objectivity INC?

-- 
-----------------------------
| David R. Robison          |
| hccwmv2!david@nevada.edu  |
-----------------------------
From: glenn@sw.stratus.com (Glenn Butler)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: DOS DBase compiler
Keywords: DBase, Compiler
Date: 8 Apr 92 14:26:12 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

Howdy all,

I  want  to  buy  an PC DBase compiler, and I'd like to get some
advice from anyone on the net.  I have experience programming in
DBase III+, and have been "evaluating" Clipper 5  for  the  last
few  months.  I've  been  using Clipper 5.0a, and it seems quite
buggy, though I'm sure the  current  version  of  5.01  is  more
stable.  I think I'm about ready to purchase Clipper, but before
I make a substantial investment (in money and development time),
I want to consider all my options.

I  love  the  Clipper language, but I'm a little concerned about
mouse/windows/os2 support.  I've also heard that FOX has a great
system, but in order to generate stand alone .exe's,  I  believe
you  need  to  purchase  a  runtime library (or something) which
brings the price up to about $1200 for the entire system.

Anyway, these are my requirements...

*    Generate .exe's w/o royalties
*    Good user interface library/commands
*    Relational
*    Ability to link w/ .c and .asm modules

This  is  my  wish  list  (many  of which are lacking in Clipper
5.0)...

*    Good application generator
*    Mouse support
*    Windows and/or OS2 2.0 support
*    Portability to other platforms (Mac, Unix, etc...)

If people would like to email me, I'll summarize and post later.

Thanks in advance,

Glenn

glenn@cj.sw.stratus.com
Glenn_Butler@vos.stratus.com
From: vjones@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: shareware databases
Date: 11 Apr 92 14:37:09 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services


Hi!  

Someone posted this a while ago, but I didn't see any replies:  Does anyone
know where I might find free or share ware databases?  They don't need to be
complex at all- I just want to index a small library for my department at KU. 
Any suggestions of possible ftp sites are appreciated.  Thanks.

-- 






                                                _____
                                              /  __  \
                             / \ ----/ \     / /    \ \
                                             \/      \ \
       Valerie Jones          < >   < >              | |
 vjones@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu  \     ^     /------------| |
    University of Kansas      \  -^-  /        ____    |       
                             |   ---          /    \   |
                             |                      |  |
                              \--  \         /------|  /
                               --------------_________/





                                 
Newsgroups: comp.databases
From: par@sirius.Aus.Sun.COM (Paul Riethmuller SE Brisbane)
Subject: Re: Sybase Open Gateways ... experiences.
Reply-To: par@sirius.Aus.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 09:23:11 GMT

In article 11433@mindlink.bc.ca, Mischa_Sandberg@mindlink.bc.ca (Mischa Sandberg) writes:
>I'm sussing out a project that would integrate a Sybase SQL server
>with a database we developed in-house -- a sort of humongous
>three-dimensional spreadsheet. Simply migrating the data to Sybase
>is not an option --- 20Mb ballooned out to 600Mb when I tried a
>non-normal conversion, and the normalized version would have been
>truly horrid. I have a "select" verb parser, and I would like to
>make the tables accessible to Sybase users; i.e. allow joins,
>etc.    ....

I won't comment on the rest, but I do have experience with real users
in this sort of scenario.

Have a close look at normalised representations.   Life for the DBA is so
much easier with normalised data - no update anomalies ...  And, there is
a significant processing cost involved in maintaing and checking the
integrity of data stored denormalised.

Given that, look at the performance of typical joins and see if its at all practical.
Don't worry about how horrible the queries may look - just see if performance is within
reasonable bounds for typical queries against normalised data.

Then define views which are joins which are the necessary views.  Your users will
truly appreciate you saving them from worrying about correctness and elapsed time
of many queries.


HTH

Paul Riethmuller - par@aus.sun.com

Newsgroups: comp.databases,comp.databases.informix,comp.databases.oracle,comp.databases.ingres
From: nmrdb@vms.macc.wisc.edu (BEVERLY SEAVEY)
Subject: Re: Relational Systems set back DP by at least 10 yrs.
Organization:  University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center
Date: 10 APR 92 09:21:59    


>Henry G. Baker,
>Nimble Computer Corp,
>16231 Meadow Ridge Way,
>Encino,CA 91436.
> 
> 
>Relational databases:
> 
> 
>	Biological systems follow the rule of "ontogeny recapitulates
>phylogeny", which states that every organism goes through a
>developmental history which mirrors the evolutionary development of
>the species itself. 

  So is Mr. Baker trying to set developmental biology back 100 years?
From: andrew@cubetech.com (Andrew Loewenstern)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: Re: postgres on SYSV R2
Date: 12 Apr 92 01:55:05 GMT
Reply-To: andrew@cubetech.com
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Apr9.173337.29812@murphy.com> gregb@murphy.com (Greg Banschbach  
(Unigroup of New York)) writes:

>  	Has anyone ever successfully installed Postgres on my 
>  	machine?  I know it was REALLY designed for BSD and 
>  	is ported to ULTRIX and SUN-OS.
   
Actually it's really for SysV!  It uses tons of Sys V shared memory stuff like  
kmem and semaphores, etc...  That's why it works on Sunos and Ultrix (which  
have SysV features) and not my NeXT (which is just 4.3BSD).  However, I'm sure  
it would be difficult to port it to a different SysV box than what is supported  
right now (SunOs, Ultrix, and Dynix) since it uses lots of kernel dependant  
stuff.  It's a pretty evil package.

>          It said that I 
>  	must have a System 5 R3 level version of "make" to run
>  	the install script.   Well, I tried to sneak around this
>  	but to no success :(

Get gmake off the archives.  GNU make should be able to handle their Makefiles  
without a hitch.  Whether the rest of POSTGRES will work on your box is another  
question.


andrew
-- 
andrew@cubetech.com
Andrew Loewenstern            |  "listen: there's a hell of a good universe
Cube Technologies, Inc.       |   next door; let's go." --- e.e. cummings
Newsgroups: comp.databases
From: kobet@picker.com (harry kobetitsch)
Subject: Interface for huge data types
Organization: Picker International, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 17:27:47 GMT


I am trying to write an interface to handle huge data types
not supported by most DBMS' (specifically Raima's DataManager).

Has anyone tried to do this for DataManager or any of the
DBMS' that run on UNIX platforms? The data types are as large
as 2MB per occurrence.
 
I know Sybase has a 2GB data type limit but how does something
like that get implemented?

-- 
Harry Kobetitsch (216)-473-2624
Picker International, Inc.
595 Miner Rd, Highland Heights, OH  44143
(UUCP: ...!uunet!picker!kobet) (Internet: kobet@picker.com)
From: vv@mbunix.mitre.org (Ventrone)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: Re: E-R modelling ?= 5th Normal Form
Date: 1 Apr 92 17:29:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: linus.1992Apr1.172911.19585
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA


In article <873@6sceng.UUCP> blm@6sceng.UUCP (Brian Matthews) writes:
>In article <CIMSHOP!DAVIDM.92Mar27103128@uunet.UU.NET> cimshop!davidm@uunet.UU.NET (David S. Masterson) writes:
>|> What's Attribute Relationship Modeling?  Aren't attributes related
>|> directly to the entity?
>|Attribute Relationship modeling is something you would use when you don't
>|really know what entities exist in your data model.
>
...(stuff deleted)...

>If you try to come up with entities, a lot of them will probably result
>from collecting a group of attributes together and then replacing them
>with the entity.  Also, unless you're proficient with ER modeling, it
>can often be difficult deciding if something is an entity or how
>abstract to make entities.  It's usually much easier to come up with
>attributes.  Basically anything you want to store information about
>is an attribute.
>
>- A data model designed using Attribute Relationship modeling can
>  be normalized automatically because all of the necessary information
>  is present.
>
>- AR modeling deals with concrete things.  ER modeling deals with
>  abstract entities.  It's probably easier for people to collect
>  attributes than try to abstract things to the degree necessary
>  with ER modeling.  Also, existing processes use pieces of paper
>  just chock-full of attributes!


This thread has been quite interesting--particularly in that there seems to be
an underlying assumption that ER models are ONLY useful as design tools for
implementing a relational database.  That is probably how the technique is
most commonly used, but I believe the primary advantage of creating an ER model
at all is to provide an abstract view of data in some Universe of Discourse 
(indeed, I think that was the motivation of Chen's original paper).  So
references to primary keys and foreign keys seems strange--tends to mix
an abstract model with implementation issues.  ER models are probably rarely
used to implement, say, a CODASYL or O-O database--but they could (though in 
the O-O case it would be a poor fit since ER models have no constructs for
representing behavior).  There are various transforms that can be used
to turn ER models into relational tables, but I think it is useful to separate
these two:  the model and the implementation of the model.  There is no 
reason not to create entities that have no natural primary key--as long as
they can be identified SOME way and as long as they represent people, places
or things in the real world.


-- 
   Vince Ventrone
   The MITRE Corporation
   Bedford, MA 01730
   vav@mitre.org
Newsgroups: comp.databases
From: alessio@cs.columbia.edu (Eduardo Alessio)
Subject: Re: OODB questions
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 16:33:12 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.153928.5906@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> wsmith@isis.cs.du.edu (Walter Smith) writes:
>Greetings!
>
>A couple of questions from a database neophyte...
>
>What OODBs are available in UNIX (Suns)?

	For Unix world there are:

		O2, 
		ObjectStore
		GemStone

	There other prototypes which rather than being 100% OO,
are considered Extended-RDBMS, most of them include several of
the absolutely necessary (and some optional) pieces which
make them part of the Third generation DBMS.  (read the 
"third generation DBMS manifesto for details). Some of those
are:

	Postgres
	Genesis
	Exodus,
	Eiffel, etc.

	You might want to read the October Issue of 
Communications of the ACM, the whole number is dedicated
to OODBMS.
	
>What OODBs are available for PCs (DOS or OS/2)?
>

	Don't know of any. Anyone else can answer?.

>Are OODBs the only solution for creating variable-length records (for
>managing larges amounts of text)?

	The idea of OODBMS is not only to manage very large variable
length text fields, but to support NEW data types, created on the run
by the user, as well as Persistent Objects, encapsulation, etc, etc.
>
>Any product names (commercial/shareware) or company names/numbers would be
>helpful.
>

	Same as above.


	Greeting.

	Eduardo Alessio
	Computer Science Dept.
	Columbia University
From: gunelson@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Jeff Gunelson)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: CDO-less RMS
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:01:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: msus1.1992Apr13.110139.358
Reply-To: gunelson@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Organization: St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN

I am trying to use the Load/Unload Data Utility on Rally to move one RMS 
data source to another.  My problem is that my original RMS data source came
from a system that did not have CDD/Plus, so therefore I have find a way to
create a data source definition without CDD/Plus, or create, through CDO,
an RMS_DATABASE and/or DATABASE for the file.

My question is, can you create a database through CDD/Plus and connect it
to an already existing RMS datafile?  If you cannot, how can you bypass the
"CDD/Plus path name:" requirement?

Thank you in advance,
Jeff