HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Michael_Pizolato@afs.com (Michael Pizolato)
Subject: Re: political propaganda in tag lines
Reply-To: Michael_Pizolato@afs.com
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 20:05:27 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.211433.18234@leland.Stanford.EDU> m@crito (M Carling)  
writes:
> Natural law, on the other hand (which proscribes killing the innocent),
> is the basis of the Declaration of Independence, the abolition of slavery,
> and the Nuernberg tribunals, and is, ultimately, the only intellectual
> foundation on which human freedom rests.
> 

Change that to "the only intellectual foundation on which human LIBERTY rests"  
and I'll agree.  You can't ever lose your freedom, because you are always free  
to do whatever the mythical "laws of nature" allow.  You may suffer consequences  
(natural - jumping off a cliff will likely injure you, or social - robbing a  
bank will likely get you arrested), but the freedom never goes away.  Too many  
people (especially in the U.S. - even the dictionary does it) confuse liberty  
and freedom.  Liberty is a political state, freedom is a natural state.

Michael

P.S.  To all "this-is-irrelevant-to-the-group" flamers:  you're right.  I only  
posted this because I can't e-mail to the original author.  I'd have done it  
sooner, but our poster was brain-dead for a few days.  I'll shut up now. ;-)

--
Michael_Pizolato@afs.com
~18 kyu
Q16
NeXTMail appreciated
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: eburk@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Eli Burk)
Subject: 3.0 & Risc
Originator: eburk@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu
Organization: California State University, Sacramento
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 03:32:52 GMT



-- 
..out in the street, with your cheap fur on, or maybe your plastic raincoat
and your plastic shoes, they look good too, standing in the snow you're young-
er than you look, {fall in love with me} 2X, how i wish you would...[Iggy Pop]
eburk@futon.sfsu.edu -or- eburk@sutro.sfsu.edu -or- eburk@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: Zacharias J. Beckman <zac@dolphin.com>
Subject: Articles Needed for BANGup Magazine
Reply-To: zac@dolphin.com
Organization: Dolphin Software
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 22:44:54 GMT

BANGup Magazine (An Excellent NeXT Magazine) Seeks Authors

We are rapidly approaching the publication deadline for the October issue  
of BANGup Magazine, and we need more articles!  If you are interested in  
writing about NeXT, whether the topic be fiction or fact, experience or  
desire, please get in touch with us!

Send us you postal address, electronic mail address, voice and fax  
telephone numbers (if you don't have one of these, don't worry).  We are  
looking for ideas, articles, and authors who wish to contribute.  Include  
what it is you would like to do for the magazine, and we'll get in touch  
with you right away!

	Zacharias J. Beckman <zac@dolphin.com>
	Editor in Chief, BANGup Magazine
	900 High School Way, Number 2106
	Mountain View, CA 94041
	415.966.8919
-- 
 Zacharias J. Beckman - Dolphin Software - zac@dolphin.com (NeXTMail welcome!)
         900 High School Way - Suite 2106 - Mountain View - CA - 94041
 To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy... and dull
 fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful. -- R. A. Heinlen
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: jcelam@confused (James Clifton Elam)
Subject: Wrong group dudes (was Re: political propaganda in tag lines
Keywords: This is what the soc (or whatever) groups are for
Organization: Encompass
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 14:10:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.211433.18234@leland.Stanford.EDU> m@crito (M Carling)  
writes:
> [buncha stuff about offensiveness]
> In article <1992Aug12.205616.13076@csi.on.ca> richard@csi.on.ca (Richard  
> Martin) writes:
> > [buncha stuff about law and Nazi (??!!) trials]

Am I missing something?  Is this the right group for this? Or did I flee the  
high noise to signal ratio groups for nothing?

Warning - tag line may be offensive to Mac/PC/IBM/Microsoft/Amiga hackers. :-0>
--
James "Cliff" Elam                      | I want NeXTStep 3.0. Now!
(919) 380-6522 (v,w)                    | I want NeXT/Intel too!
jce%confused@glv.com - NeXT mail        | DBKit will sell more NeXT's than IB!
From: mitroo@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Varun Mitroo)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Byte: Is Unix Dead ?
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:30:27 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <1992Aug21.21623.17276@ms.uky.edu> borders@ms.uky.edu (Johnny Borders) writes:
>ernest@pundit.cithep.caltech.edu (Ernest Prabhakar) writes:
>
>>In article <SXMRP.25.0@orca.alaska.edu> SXMRP@orca.alaska.edu (Michael R.  
>>Platzke) writes:
>
>>Otherwise, who would ever have bought IBM RS/6000s?
>
>Got me, man.. Rotten performance for most applications, lousy operating
>system, slow I/O (SCSI-1), and lack of a multiprocessing model.

I beg to differ.  They offer MUCH better performance than many other
workstations in many important aspects.  From my experiences, I have found
the hard disk to be much faster than NeXT.  The really big win is with the
compilers.  IBM has spent a lot of effort, and it shows.  Compiles are VERY
fast, and the executables are very small in size.  Even things like unix
compress runs at incredible speed.

I would never buy an RS6000, because it doesn't satisfy my needs, but there
definitely is a market for it.  People I know who take their computing very
seriously use the RS6000 over other computers like the HP 9000/700s and SUN
SS2.

Varun
From: pfkeb@kaon.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Paul Kunz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Summary of Amiga REXX, as it applies to NeXT
Date: 15 Aug 92 04:35:08 GMT
	<dillon.0kwu@overload.Berkeley.CA.US> <1992Aug9.194045.430@prim>
	<92222.143147MKK2@psuvm.psu.edu>
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
In-reply-to: MKK2@psuvm.psu.edu's message of 9 Aug 92 18:31:47 GMT


   MKK2 made a nice summary of Amiga REXX.  What he didn't mention is
that REXX is already available for the NeXT.  An implementation has
been sold by the Workstation Group company for over two years.  They
will soon distribute it free to academic sites.  Why free?  Because
there are now two public domain implemenations of REXX for UNIX which
must surely port easily to a NeXT.

   So we have REXX, now we need applications that listen to commands
from a shell script.

   By the way, REXX is to csh scripts like NeXTSTEP is to X-Windows.
When making this comparsion, I'm thinking about ease of use, ease of
learning, good defaults, ease to understand errors when they occur.
REXX is not object oriented, but there are people working on 
Objective-Rexx.

   I hope REXX makes it big time in the UNIX world of which NeXT is
a member.   It already has in the VM/CMS, MVS, Amiga, and OS/2 worlds.
And now it is available for UNIX and VMS.

   Can you believe it?   Something really good that came from IBM?
--
Paul F. Kunz	(NeXT mail ok)
Stanford Linear Accelerator Center, Stanford University
Voice: (415) 926-2884   (NeXT) Fax: (415) 926-3587
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: richard@csi.on.ca (Richard Martin)
Subject: Re: Question #2 "Are Macintosh Users Really Happy?"
Organization: Carp Systems International, Kanata, ON
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:22:16 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.004009.10542@leland.Stanford.EDU> kocks@jessica.stanford.edu (Peter Kocks) writes:
>In article <1992Aug6.143640.17193@ms.uky.edu> borders@ms.uky.edu (Johnny Borders) writes:
>a lowly Mac Classic with a 68000
>which came out in what, 1980, can do it in half the time.
>--Peter Kocks
>  kocks@chemistry.stanford.edu

I _think_ that the first Macs came out in 1984.
There was a really big ad campaign about breaking
free of Big Brother (IBM) etc.  I was 8.  I don't
know why I would remember, and not you.
Richard.
From: alberto@parsec.mixcom.com (Manuel Alberto Ricart)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: political propaganda in tag lines
Date: 15 Aug 92 03:53:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: parsec.1992Aug15.035306.855
Organization: Is the act or process of organizing or of being organized.


So what if someone expresses a private opinion on his ".signature".
Everyone is entitled, by law, to freedom of expression. Wheather you
like or not, doesn't make a difference. If anything the effect of
such message is to let you know where someone stands on certain issues:
it provokes thought.

Comp.sys.next.* is not the place for this sort of issue. Email those
people's whose ideas you don't like.



-- 
Manuel Alberto Ricart
alberto@parsec.mixcom.com <NeXTMail Welcome>

The best form of government is one which spends money
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: ctm@ardi.com (Clifford T. Matthews)
Subject: 68000 assembly code under NS486 (was Re: software ports...)
Organization: ARDI
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 20:21:52 GMT

While talking about why WriteNow is being rewritten over at Appsoft, Randy
Adams said:

	"Because 68000 assembly code has a low probability of running
	 under NS486..."

Although not germane to whether or not to rewrite WriteNow, I would like
to voice the opposing view that I think 68000 assembly code will have a
high probability of running under NS486, of course it will have to be
embedded in a program originally written on a Macintosh, just like if you
want to run 80x86 assembly on a NeXTstation, it needs to be embedded in
a PC application.

Summary:  we do intend to release Executor for NS486 and other non mc680x0
based platforms.  Much of our synthetic CPU design has already been completed
as has a significant amount of coding.  After we release 1.2.1, I will go back
to work on our synthetic CPU with a vengeance.


	--Cliff[ord T. Matthews]
	ctm@ardi.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: ernest@pundit.cithep.caltech.edu (Ernest Prabhakar)
Subject: Re: Byte: Is Unix Dead ?
Reply-To: ernest@pundit.cithep.caltech.edu (Ernest Prabhakar)
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:47:43 GMT

In article <SXMRP.25.0@orca.alaska.edu> SXMRP@orca.alaska.edu (Michael R.  
Platzke) writes:
> In article <1992Aug20.155849.147103@zeus.calpoly.edu>  
mneideng@thidwick.acs.calpoly.edu (Mark Neidengard) writes:
>>From: mneideng@thidwick.acs.calpoly.edu (Mark Neidengard)
>>YOU DON'T BUY A SNAKE TO RUN WINDOWS, NO MATTER WHAT QUALITY PLUMBING IS
>> UNDER IT!
>>Mark Neidengard
> 
> No, you don't buy a snake to run windows, you buy it to run APPLICATION
> SOFTWARE and to actually ACCOMPLISH PRODUCTIVE WORK.
> 
> -Michael R. Platzke (sxmrp@orca.alaska.edu)

Actually, among the snake-buying-type people I've known, Mark is correct.

People buy high-powered Unix workstations to run their 50-year legacy FORTRAN  
code 100times faster.  These people merely return blank looks at the terms  
"shrink-wrapped applications" and "productivity software".  GUIs are for  
"sissies", and X already has "all the applications we'll ever need."  The  
high-end Unix market is for people who the highest speed, most efficient  
machines available, and are willing to sacrfice everything to get it.

Otherwise, who would ever have bought IBM RS/6000s?

So, while I think Michael's statement in the sane one, Mark's statement is  
probably the true one. :-) :-)

- Ernie P.
--
Ernest N. Prabhakar                  Caltech High Energy Physics
Member, League for Programming Freedom (league@prep.ai.mit.edu)
CaJUN President        NeXTMail:ernest@pundit.cithep.caltech.edu
"...and ourselves, your servants for Jesus sake." - II Cor 4:5b
#import <std/disclaimer.h>
From: m@crito.stanford.edu (M Carling)
Subject: Re: NeXT won't let us upgrade cubes to turbos?
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 18:33:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.080819.8360@leland.Stanford.EDU>  
marcu@leland.Stanford.EDU (Marc Albert Ullman) writes:
> In article <1992Aug19.012749.14854@leland.Stanford.EDU>  
m@crito.stanford.edu (M Carling) writes:
> >It's right. You can build 3.0 onto an OD and then boot from it. Of  
course,  
> >you can't fit all the packages on, but you can fit most of them.
 
> Could you clarify this statement.  Which part is correct?  The "it's  
right",
> which implies you can't boot from an OD or the following sentence that
> states that you can.

"It's right" refers to:
>> NeXT's phone person said the following:
>> 
>> 4)  The OD cannot be configured as a boot device in NS3.0 (?!)

Taken out of context my sentence would have been ambiguous. But the  
following sentence cleary stated that 3.0 could be booted from an OD.
 
> >BANG had intended to provide a service to our members with OD-only  
cubes  
> >whereby we would do the builddisk for them. Even though we would have  
> >required that they provide the CD-ROM, and proof of purchase, in  
addition  
> >to a blank OD, to demonstrate that we wouldn't have been complicitious  
in  
> >software theft, NeXT's legal department wouldn't give us an ok. We are  
now  
> >exploring other means by which to make upgrading easier for members who  
> >can't afford to buy a CD-ROM drive.
> 
> Out of curiosity what aspect of the licensing agreement would this have
> violated?  How is it different from making a backup copy or installing  
it
> on one's hard disk?  In other words, what does NeXT's legal department
> have to do with it unless you were planning on charging for the service.
> How is this different from one doing it him or herself (e.g. produce a
> bootable OD if one has a CD-ROM) if one has a system with both an OD and
> a CD.

The End User License Agreement allows the end user to do it himself. The  
only difference is that someone else would have been doing. BANG is not  
going to copy software unless it is *clearly* legal. That is why we asked  
NeXT's legal department.

M Carling
Director, Bay Area NeXT Group
--
Dan Quayle needs a new running mate.
George Bush undermines his chances of being re-elected Vice President.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: borders@ms.uky.edu (Johnny Borders)
Subject: Re: Question #2 "Are Macintosh Users Really Happy?"
    <1992Aug11.191544.11423@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 05:50:58 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

eer1@midway.uchicago.edu(Paul Woods) writes:


>P&S is NOT what I would call seamless integration.  It's hardly able to handle  
>all the editions and such.

IT'S hardly able to handle all the editions or YOU'RE hardly able to handle
all of them? The machine knows what it's doing, and it handled editions
just fine on my local network. (if it didn't, I wouldn't use it)
-- 
*******************************************************************************
* The University of Kentucky is not responsible * AIX: Marketing or lunacy?   *
* for me, by reason of "Bureaucrats Syndrome,"  * "I never used anything by   *
* a crippling form of insanity.                 *  IBM that I liked."         *
From: Conrad_Geiger@NeXT.com (International NeXT User Groups)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Denver's rmNUG General Meeting, August 12th
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:16:04 GMT
Reply-To: user_groups@next.com

Announcing: rmNUG general meeting, August 12th

   WHAT: August rmNUG (NeXT User Group) meeting
   WHEN: Wednesday, August 12th, 7:00 pm
   WHERE: 8000 East Iliff, Denver, Colorado

The next meeting of the Rocky Mountain NeXT User Group  will be
Wednesday, August 12th, 7:00 pm, in Denver at Random Access's new
facility.

This month, Terry Tautz will be demonstrating some of the exciting
features in the impending release of NextStep 3.0. The NeXT
environment is superior in ease of use and productivity and 3.0 will
add several features that give users, programmers and apps even more
capabilities. A feature summary was included in the Summer issue of
nextword, the rmNUG newsletter. A brief list of my choosing includes
DBKit, 3DKit, Distributed Objects, Object Links, PostScript Level 2,
Pantone Matching, multimedia Help, and file compression.

This meeting will also mark the use of a slightly different format.
It will begin at 7:00 pm with some group business and announcements,
then quickly break into 3 special interest groups (SIGs). Each SIG
will have a machine and demonstrator to provide insight on how they
use an app(s) on the NeXT.  Interaction and ideas  exchange is the
goal during SIG gatherings. This month, Monty will host an
Illustration SIG using Icon and Adobe Illustrator;  Leann will show
us some of her magic, specifically with Right Brain's new Paste Up
page layout application; and Matt will show us how easy it is to get
organized with DataPhile.

Directions:
Random Access is at 8000 East Iliff - a white building on the
south side of the street.

Take Interstate 25 to east bound Evans (its near Colorado Blvd).
Drive east past Monaco, soon after Quebec, Evans will split. Iliff is
the left part of the split. Look to your right and you'll soon see
Random Access.

If you're coming from the southeast, you should take Parker Road to
west bound Iliff. Random Access is the white building on your left.

This meeting will show lots of NeXTs in action. Hope to see you all
there!
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXt vs Apple -- a couple comments
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:07:39 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com


In article <857@rtbrain.rightbrain.com> reynolds@rightbrain.com (Jack  
Reynolds) writes:

>Not exactly.  THIS Apple customer spent 15k more than he needed to 
>on a publishing system and is trying to comfort himself by saying, 
> "Maybe Apple will cut their prices one-third to half in the 
>future."

Sorry, but I still don't buy this.  I like my NeXT, but I still find
all the playing with numbers that NeXT advocates do to convince
folks that NeXTs are much cheaper than Macs are misleading.  For
15K, I can buy a more Mac than I need, yet you say that the
Apple Customer is spending 15 K more than the the next customer??
Sure, if you gold plate the Mac and be misleading about what
is needed for both (e.g., claim they both need the same amount
of memory to do the same job), use list prices for everything
(you can get much deeper discounts on Mac software than you
can on NeXT software), you can come up with this stuff.  The problem
is, most consumers know better, and therefore you lose credibility
by doing this.  The NeXT has many real strengths: sell the machine
on those, not on these bogus comparisons with the Mac.

--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: vin@netcom.com (Vin Locke)
Subject: Re: Byte: Is Unix Dead ?
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 15:59:52 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Aug21.21623.17276@ms.uky.edu> borders@ms.uky.edu (Johnny Borders) writes:
>ernest@pundit.cithep.caltech.edu (Ernest Prabhakar) writes:
>
>>In article <SXMRP.25.0@orca.alaska.edu> SXMRP@orca.alaska.edu (Michael R.  
>>Platzke) writes:
>
>>Otherwise, who would ever have bought IBM RS/6000s?
>
>Got me, man.. Rotten performance for most applications, lousy operating
>system, slow I/O (SCSI-1), and lack of a multiprocessing model. 

There is an outstanding factor in IBM's favor: name acceptance.
Among MIS and equipment-procurement types out in the business world, there is
a saying dating back (at least!) to the days of the PC-clone wares:
	"Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM"
The implication here being that some career middle-management types will be 
sqeamish about buying "some weird, non-standard" platform (like the NeXT?),
thinking that at some point, if things don't go well, it could be thrown in
their face and cost them their jobs.  Now, most of us know that there are 
probably more NeXTs out there than IBM RISC machines, but IBM still has that
name recognition, and I expect this factor will allow the IBM RISC machines to
perpetuate themselves.  On the other hand, name-recognition didn't do much for
Ashton-Tate after it screwed up dBase with the release of dBase IV.
	Us techie types can see through the emperor's new specs, but it is
usually the suits that allocate the funds.  I think, for our own sanity and 
amusement, we should clamor for renewed attempts to bring NeXTStep to the AIX
environment and help NeXTStep become somewhat of a (eek! I don't like using
this word -- it makes me feel like I'm wearing a suit and working at a trade
show!) standard.  Just think, if NeXT did this, and went with the Motorola 
RISC for it's own box, it would not only span several platforms, but would
probably become the interface of choice for the (yet to kick ass in the 
marketplace) 88 Open cartel.


-- 
					--vin

vin@netcom.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.programmer
From: kris@tpki.toppoint.de (Kristian Koehntopp)
Subject: Re: NeXT's, Amiga's, PC's, MAC'S, (was Re: Question #2 "Are Macintosh Users Really Happy?")
X-Copyright: (C) Copyright 1992 Kristian Koehntopp -- All rights reserved.
		 Reproduktion, auch auszugsweise, ausserhalb elektronischer,
		 nichtkommerzieller Datennetze nur mit ausdruecklichem,
		 schriftlichem Einverstaendnis des Autors.
Organization: Toppoint Mailbox e.V.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 13:28:06 GMT
X-Excuse: X-Copyright wegen Emma, Suedwestpresse und /C'T/DISKUSSIONEN.

In <basiji.714245142@milton> basiji@milton.u.washington.edu (David Basiji) writes:
[ ... machines from hell ... ]
>Oh yeah, I almost forgot, they're all running(?) Windows.

In de.talk.jokes, knoblauch@rz-berlin.mpg.de (Klaus v. Knoblauch)
wrote in message <1992Aug18.105308.7692@rz-berlin.mpg.de>:
] Aus dem Berliner Stadtmagazin TIP (17/92; Kleinanzeigen: S. 196):
] 
] Sollten Sie Probleme mit Ihrem Rechner ... haben ... helfen wir dem ab.
] 
] PS: Wir konnen auch die neuesten Softwareprobleme liefern: Windows3.1, OS/2 
] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
]     und andere Leckerbissen.
]     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

English translation:

From the berlin scene magazine TIP (17/92, p. 196, ads):

Should you have any problems with your computer - we will help
you.

PS: We deliver the lates software problems, also: Windows 3.1,
    OS/2 and other specialties.

Kristian
-- 
Kristian Koehntopp, Harmsstrasse 98, FRG W-2300 Kiel, +49 431 676689
"More Hardware! Less Software!" -- Old Marketing Chant
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy