HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davem@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave McCrady)
Newsgroups: can.domain
Subject: Re: locality abbreviations 
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 13:26:37 MST
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #1, Edmonton, AB, Canada

timk@tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (Tim Kuehn) writes:

- In article <C0DG76.Ltv@wimsey.bc.ca> sl@wimsey.bc.ca (Stuart Lynne) writes:
- >I don't think (airport code are) as practical as postal codes. I can give 
- >you the PC for any currently registered domain, or someone I have a business
- >card for in a few seconds. But airport would require looking up in a list. 
- >And there is a minor problem with knowing what airport someone is near. But 
- >that doesn't make it unusuable.
- 
- Another problem is "Which airport"? I am close to three I can think of:
- Breslau, one in Hamilton, and one in Toronto. And who knows how many 
- private or small sites there are out there.
- 
- Which to use? :-)
- 

   Good question.  That's why I suggested "closest" airport in the original 
post.  Finding out the three-character designation is a phone call to 
the airport or to any airline or flying club .. or a look at an airline 
schedule.  Not a difficult piece of research.  Certainly no more difficult
than coming up with the map co-ordinates required for a uumap application.

   Perhaps in areas served by more than one airport, the "major" one should
be designated as the one of choice.     

   And as mentioned previously, it really eliminates the need for a 
province.country designation, since these airport codes are recognized 
world-wide.

Dave McCrady              davem@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca 
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: dave@revcan.rct.ca (David Blackwood)
Subject: Re: Q: organizational subdomains?
Organization: Revenue Canada, Taxation; Office Communications Division
Distribution: can.domain
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:32:53 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.053622.10995@julian.uwo.ca> morton@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Brent Morton) writes:
>
>
>I've wondered for some time why Canada chose not to adopt the organizational
>subdomain system in use in countries such as the UK, Australia, Taiwan,
>New Zealand, South Africa, Austria, and even, as a domain, in the US. By this
>I mean 'ac.uk', 'edu.tw', 'ac.za', 'co.uk', 'gen.nz', etc. I've noticed that
>a couple of sites in B.C. and one, I believe, in Ontario, voluntarily use
>'gov.bc.ca' and 'gov.on.ca' -- why not nationwide? 

I thought this too and tried registering as rct.gov.ca but was refused.
We compromised and it was shortened to rct.ca.  Now for an X.400 PRMD
name they want to use GC+RCT.RCI.  Go figure.
-- 
D. J. Blackwood			Room 1139, 400 Cumberland Street
Systems Integration Manager	Ottawa, Ontario, Canada  K1A 0L8
Office Communications Division	voice: +1 613 957 9305, fax: +1 613 952 1095
Revenue Canada, Taxation	email: uunet.ca!revcan!dave, dave@revcan.rct.ca
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: cdshaw@cs.UAlberta.CA (Chris Shaw)
Subject: Re: Domain naming conventions
Organization: University of Alberta
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 07:40:03 GMT

In <C098As.KF1@wimsey.bc.ca> sl@wimsey.bc.ca (Stuart Lynne) writes:
>In article <1993Jan2.234428.886@cs.UAlberta.CA> cdshaw@cs.UAlberta.CA (Chris Shaw) writes:
>>Thousands of studies of human memory performance bear this out. Postal
>>codes (and other seemingly random strings of letters and digits) are harder 
>>to remember than place names.

>You will of course give us some journal references so we can check out this
>assertion.

Journal references are unnecessary. This is Psych 101 stuff.

Read 
  "The Psychology of Human-Computer Interaction", a wonderful book by
   Stuart K Card, Thomas P Moran, and Allen Newell

Chapter 2 bears on the topic of "chunking" of memory items.

Here's a standard test that proves my point. Try to remember the following 
sequence of letters:

    B C S B M I C R A



Now try these:

    C B S I B M R C A


You'll find the second set much easier than the first because the second set
is three chunks instead of nine chunks. Also chunks can be nested, as in
chunk4 = (chunk1,chunk2,chunk3)

Typically, addresses such as waterloo.on.ca end up being coded as one chunk
because they rely on one's knowledge of geography. So, cognitively,
waterloo.on.ca is SHORTER than N2L.

Admittedly, multiple addresses for one domain won't hurt, although I'd be 
stupid to put  cdshaw@T6G.ca  as my email address on a business card.

----
How do I remember people's email addresses?

Most of the time, I go to a saved message in  elm  and reply to it.
Other times, I use finger name@site
--
Chris Shaw               University of Alberta
cdshaw@cs.UAlberta.ca    CatchPhrase: Bogus as HELL !
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: anton@analsyn.gts.org (Anton J Aylward)
Subject: Re: locality abbreviations 
Reply-To: anton@lethe.gts.org
Organization: ASCI: UNIX Database and Communications
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 12:25:36 GMT

In the article (<1993Jan5.174445.6217@tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca>) Tim Kuehn (timk@tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca) posted to can.domain:
: In article <C0DG76.Ltv@wimsey.bc.ca> sl@wimsey.bc.ca (Stuart Lynne) writes:
: >I don't think (airport code are) as practical as postal codes. I can give 
: >you the PC for any currently registered domain, or someone I have a business 
: >card for in a few seconds. But airport would require looking up in a list. 
: >And there is a minor problem with knowing what airport someone is near. But 
: >that doesn't make it unusuable.

: Another problem is "Which airport"? I am close to three I can think of:
: Breslau, one in Hamilton, and one in Toronto. And who knows how many 
: private or small sites there are out there.

: Which to use? :-)

I'll suggest the DHL aabbreviation for your address....
But then we go round this geographic loop again.
What if I'm located in Ottawa but all my cutomers are in the USA? 
Vance Shipley mentioned this.  At least airport designators
don't need ".ca" and are crytic if you don't have the directory ;-)

--
Anton J Aylward
	"The body politic is swerving from left to right and right to
	 left looking for quick fixes for systemic problems."
	   - Paul Palango, Journalist, ex The Globe and Mail
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: timk@tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (Tim Kuehn)
Subject: Re: locality abbreviations 
Organization: TDK Consulting Services
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:50:22 GMT

In article <C0EKsz.EG7@wimsey.bc.ca> sl@wimsey.bc.ca (Stuart Lynne) writes:
>The basic problem with both of these, is that there are some crazed
>radicals out there who don't feel comfortable with tying themselves
>to political geographical designations. There are also problems with
>having to change your email address when you move. Proponents say 
>that it is not hard to change it. Oponents say that computers should
>be able to hide these gritty details from the user.

They should complain to the postal office then too. I don't see the 
problem with leaving the prior registration so it points to their new 
domain name for around 6 months or so until that site's contacts know 
their new address, and then at some suitable time wipe out the old MX 
record.

Companies do that all the time already with snail mail. It's called 
"having your mail forwarded" :-) I had to do something quite similar
in the uucp maps when I had to change site names when I went from 
"wynnds.xenitec.on.ca" to ".tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca"

So what's the hassle with doing the electronic equivalent? Or are people 
too lazy to deal with it? It's not *that* painful. 

While it may be true that a good, professionally run system should hide 
these gritty details from the user, until someone comes up with such a 
system, or finds someone to setup and run (and pay for!) a system which 
does this, we have to deal with the current level of technology and 
naming conventions, all working under a mostly volunteer staff.

Maybe the ones crying for such the "non-geographic" system should 
setup their own top-level domain ".cspace?"  :-), and admin the ad-hoc 
system such a domain naming convention based on the fluid nature of 
cyberspace would generate. Or go to .com, .org, or other existing 
top-level domain where they can do what they want with their own 
subdomain and generate all the ad-hoc systems they want.

>Stuart Lynne <sl@wimsey.com> ......................... UNIX Facsimile Software

 +-----------+-----------------------------------+---------------------------+
 | Tim Kuehn | TDK Consulting Services           | timk@tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca |
 | <><       | Ask me about news and mail in KW! | (519)-888-0766            |
 +-----------+-----------------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: anton@analsyn.gts.org (Anton J Aylward)
Subject: Re: locality abbreviations 
Reply-To: anton@lethe.gts.org
Organization: ASCI: UNIX Database and Communications
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 02:12:46 GMT

In article (<1993Jan5.123035.22172@analsyn.gts.org>) I wrote

: I ran a count of these last week while loading the database.
: I will check it again this week now the database if fully loaded and
: normalized.

: There are only 600 distinct entries.

Opps -typo!  That should be 6,000.  5749 actually.

There are actually 757,753 records in the database which represent
649,644 distinct postalcodes.   I haven't worked out how many distinct
FSAs there are yet.

This database, published by CPC on 9-track in COBOL records (ugh!)
is a standard reference.  The accompanying documetns give standard
abbrviations for things like "Street", "Rue", but not for the
municpalities.

The database also contains 'reverse' information, naturally enough.
Single postalcodes map to more than one location, in some cases more
than one city.  Detailed examination shows this is is usually a central
mail office for a large organization or governement office.  I guess
this makes the handling easier for CPC.

--
Anton J Aylward						
	"The body politic is swerving from left to right and right to
	 left looking for quick fixes for systemic problems."
	   - Paul Palango, Journalist, ex The Globe and Mail
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: lawrence@combdyn.com (Lawrence Chen)
Subject: Re: Domain naming conventions
Organization: Combustion Dynamics Ltd.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:30:49 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.174007.6132@tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca> timk@tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (Tim Kuehn) writes:
>In article <1993Jan4.191742.709@combdyn.com> lawrence@combdyn.com (Lawrence Chen) writes:
>
>>The company on the other hand....(at the time was only in Medicine Hat) so
>>following the guidelines that came with the application-form....
>>
>>We came up with a domain name of .CombDynLtd.MedicineHat.AB.CA, 
>
>why the "ltd" in there?
>
Originally, we came up with cdl.medhat.ab.ca which was much simplier, but
medhat wasn't an approved abreviation....and there was some discussion 
internally if 'cdl' had been over abreviated.  Our Calgary office is known
as "CDL Systems" now, so I don't know how we'd stand now.

>
>Under this scheme, you would be lawrence@combdyn.medihat.ab.ca, which is 
>not unreasonable at all. (It'd be your decision to make it 
>lawrence@combdyn.CombDyn.medihat.ab.ca though, in which case the 
>excess verbosity would be your own fault.)
>
Actually, the default mailer configuration would have given us
combdyn.combdyn.com...but I rewrote the sendmail.cf to drop the extra 'combdyn'

>
> +-----------+-----------------------------------+---------------------------+
> | Tim Kuehn | TDK Consulting Services           | timk@tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca |
> | <><       | Ask me about news and mail in KW! | (519)-888-0766            |
> +-----------+-----------------------------------+---------------------------+


-- 
 --EMAIL-----------------------------PHONE-----------FAX------------
 | WORK: lawrence@combdyn.com      | (403)529-2162 | (403)529-2516 |
 | HOME: dreamer@lhaven.uumh.ab.ca | (403)526-6019 | (403)529-5102 |
 -------------------------------------------------------------------
  disclamer = (working_for && !representing) + (Combustion Dynamics Ltd.);
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: sl@wimsey.bc.ca (Stuart Lynne)
Subject: Re: Q: organizational subdomains?
Organization: Wimsey Information Services
Distribution: can.domain
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 02:16:45 GMT

In article <C0EKMr.5pA@uunet.ca> smd@uunet.ca (Sean Doran) writes:
>hooper@ccs.QueensU.CA (Andy Hooper) writes:
>
>
>>Try to think about what might be an upper bound on the size. Making up some
>>numbers, say an average of 30 medium to large size cities and towns per
>>province, with an average 300 businesses each. That's 90,000 right there,
>>without even thinking about home personal systems.
>
>Great!  Point them at us.  :-)

Hey Sean, leave some for us :-)

Both Sean and I would be more than happy to provide these services to
ten's of thousands of customers. That's our business. The overhead for
providing DNS services compared to the other things these 90,000 customers
will be lost in the noise.

-- 
Stuart Lynne <sl@wimsey.com> ......................... UNIX Facsimile Software
Wimsey Information Technologies ................... moderator biz.sco.binaries
uucp login:nuucp passwd:nuucp .................... ftp.wimsey.com:~ftp/ls-lR.Z
PD Software for SCO UNIX .................... ftp.wimsey.com:~ftp/pub/wimseypd
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: eah@xenitec.on.ca (Ed Hew)
Subject: Re: Domain naming conventions
Organization: XeniTec Consulting, Kitchener, Ontario, CANADA
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1993 21:03:34 GMT

In article <383@unbc.edu> lyndon@unbc.edu (Lyndon Nerenberg) writes:
>What concerns me is a statement that was mae earlier in the discussion
>about abbreviations for city names being rejected because there was no
>"official" list of them. Has the committee really become so OSIified that
>they are letting standards that don't exist stand in the way of common sense?

When the committee discussed the abbreviation issue in the spring of
'92, the point was made that locality names were "officially" recognized
only in their full format and that lacking any sort of an "official"
abbreviation list, the use of abbreviations be deferred until such
time as we had something that we could use.

While I don't recall the exact circumstances, a comment was made by
a committee member about a couple of weeks ago, just prior to the
start of this discussion in can.domain, which allowed me to re-open
the discussion on the use of locality abbreviations.

The in-committee locality discussion is currently pending as the
secondary item to resolution of our current discussion on revision
of the CA domain guidelines and application form.  I _hope_ to be
able to report positive resolution on both these issues in the near
future.

                --ed            (Ed Hew)
--
        Canadian UUCP Map Coordinator           <path@cs.toronto.edu>
   ==>  UUCP liason to .CA Domain Registry	<registry@cs.toronto.edu>
        XeniTec Consulting Services             <edhew@xenitec.on.ca>
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: eah@xenitec.on.ca (Ed Hew)
Subject: Re: Domain naming conventions
Organization: XeniTec Consulting, Kitchener, Ontario, CANADA
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1993 22:41:25 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.191742.709@combdyn.com> lawrence@combdyn.com (Lawrence Chen) writes:
>We came up with a domain name of .CombDynLtd.MedicineHat.AB.CA, along the
>way we needed to exchange mail with DRES...and I had to try to tell the
>person what our email address was going to be.  I told him that my address
>was 'lawrence@combdyn.CombDynLtd.MedicineHat.AB.CA'....now its just
>'lawrence@combdyn.com'.  I wonder which is easier to tell people, remember,
>and type? 8-)

Indeed, I recall dealing with this application, and the _applicant's_
choice after applying the recommended naming conventions was:
	CombDynLtd.MedicineHat.AB.CA
I'd have been just as happy to submit an application for:
	combdyn.medicinehat.ab.ca
and if and when locality abbreviations become allowable, would prefer
	combdyn.mhat.ab.ca

>The company on the other hand....(at the time was only in Medicine Hat) so
>following the guidelines that came with the application-form....

This implies that if the application were to be submitted today,
it could very well be for:
	combdyn.ab.ca

Not that bad, is it?

                --ed            (Ed Hew)
--
        Canadian UUCP Map Coordinator           <path@cs.toronto.edu>
   ==>  UUCP liason to .CA Domain Registry	<registry@cs.toronto.edu>
        XeniTec Consulting Services             <edhew@xenitec.on.ca>
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: sl@wimsey.bc.ca (Stuart Lynne)
Subject: Re: Domain naming conventions
Organization: Wimsey Information Services
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:47:51 GMT

In article <394@unbc.edu> lyndon@unbc.edu (Lyndon Nerenberg) writes:
>
>OK, I volunteer Stuart to write the reference implementation of the
>sendmail.cf file :-)

No but I'll volunteer to show you how to do it with smail 3. :-)

-- 
Stuart Lynne <sl@wimsey.com> ......................... UNIX Facsimile Software
Wimsey Information Technologies ................... moderator biz.sco.binaries
uucp login:nuucp passwd:nuucp .................... ftp.wimsey.com:~ftp/ls-lR.Z
PD Software for SCO UNIX .................... ftp.wimsey.com:~ftp/pub/wimseypd
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: anton@analsyn.gts.org (Anton J Aylward)
Subject: Re: Q: organizational subdomains?
Reply-To: anton@lethe.gts.org
Organization: ASCI: UNIX Database and Communications
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Distribution: can
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 00:01:33 GMT

In the article (<C0Gtvq.7AL@wimsey.bc.ca>) Stuart Lynne (sl@wimsey.bc.ca) posted to can.domain:

: The reason we don't have functional sub-domains is that the committee 
: made that decision for us. I remain to be convinced that it was a good
: decision. I would also like the committee to release it's archives of
: discussions if it does not want to re-iterate them here.

As someone earlier pointed out, functional subdomains are just as
arbitrary and articial as geograpic ones.
This simple point deserves re-iterating.  It makes a lot more sense to
start from this admission than to arguu about L4Y vs YYZ.

However, let me play devils advocate for a moment...
If geographic subdomains are arbitrary, the the corrolary is that
geographic domains are arbitrary as well.....

Now I've got Jon mad at me, by implicitly undermining his power base...  ;-)

So lets look at it the other way.  What would it take to make people 
WANT to register under .CA rather than under .COM ?
--
Anton J Aylward				
	"The body politic is swerving from left to right and right to
	 left looking for quick fixes for systemic problems."
	   - Paul Palango, Journalist, ex The Globe and Mail
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: sl@wimsey.bc.ca (Stuart Lynne)
Subject: Re: locality abbreviations (was Re: What is this group for?)
Organization: Wimsey Information Services
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 02:12:05 GMT

In article <93Jan05.235304.27504@acs.ucalgary.ca> kozlowsk@acs.ucalgary.ca (Don M. Kozlowski) writes:
>In article <C0Cwxz.381@wimsey.bc.ca> sl@wimsey.bc.ca (Stuart Lynne) writes:
>>In article <93Jan04.222358.34201@acs.ucalgary.ca> kozlowsk@acs.ucalgary.ca (Don M. Kozlowski) writes:
>[...]
>code right is by checking my business cards. So let us in on your
>secret. How do you magically convert addresses to postal codes?
>And why would you want to? 

I peeked at your CA-Domain Registration.

>These political geopgraphics designations are important to me.
>When I get mail, or see a posting, or get an internet address,
>it's nice to be able to determine where that address is. If I'm
>ftp'ing from a site in Ontario I then know enough to allow for the
>time change.  If I'm sending mail to Edmonton, I type real slow
>(just joking, put that flamethrower away :-).  

Well some people like hiding in the cyberspace. Why should they
give up their privacy for something you like.

>I know that V3H is in BC, but only because you've mentioned it
>several times. I still don't know where in BC it is.

You don't need to know where in BC it is. But I'll tell you anyway,
it's Port Moody.

-- 
Stuart Lynne <sl@wimsey.com> ......................... UNIX Facsimile Software
Wimsey Information Technologies ................... moderator biz.sco.binaries
uucp login:nuucp passwd:nuucp .................... ftp.wimsey.com:~ftp/ls-lR.Z
PD Software for SCO UNIX .................... ftp.wimsey.com:~ftp/pub/wimseypd
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: timk@tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (Tim Kuehn)
Subject: Re: Domain naming conventions
Organization: TDK Consulting Services
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 19:37:45 GMT

In article <C0KFLq.Avy@wimsey.bc.ca> sl@wimsey.bc.ca (Stuart Lynne) writes:
>In article <C0Iu73.1I9@uunet.ca> smd@uunet.ca (Sean Doran) writes:
>>davidf@golem.waterloo.on.ca (David J. Fiander) writes:
>>To be fair, though, should one day the topology of Canadian networking
>>change dramatically, allowing all sorts of nameservers to be used near
>>all sorts of fast connections to the rest of the world, then CA does
>>have an advantage.
>
>If we assume that the size of the ca-domain will double each year it
>would indicate that the domain committee is setting themselves up to
>vette about two applications per working day this year, four next 
>year, eight the year after. One wonders when they will get sick and
>tired of rigidly applying rules and come up with something that can
>be rubber stamped by one person quickly.

I got the general impression that they're also moulding the guidelines/etc.
 to cover new areas and situations which haven't been dealt with before, 
which is a bit more involved than just stamping applications.

Moulding policy makes for a lot more work than rubber-stamping applications.
And a non-conformant application can't be rubber-stamped.

>>Realistically, breaking CA-DOM into provincial subdomains only makes
>>sense in terms of the DNS if the top-level-nameservers are constantly
>>being bashed by lots and lots queries per second.  Unless there are
>>people out there pointing their resolvers at the top-level-nameservers
>>for CA, this seems unlikely.
>Another case of a solution looking for a problem.

ie the problem of allocating name-space as the Canadian cyberspace grows?

>Stuart Lynne <sl@wimsey.com> ......................... UNIX Facsimile Software

 +-----------+-----------------------------------+---------------------------+
 | Tim Kuehn | TDK Consulting Services           | timk@tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca |
 | <><       | Ask me about news and mail in KW! | (519)-888-0766            |
 +-----------+-----------------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: can.domain