HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: orc@usite-next.uchicago.edu (David Parsons)
Subject: Re: Cost of transit systems vs highways
Followup-To: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games
Organization: Ministry of Skritching
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 04:23:56 GMT

In article <JMC.92Aug19205657@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
|I have a question about SimCity.  I thought about buying it for my son
|to play, but I worried about it having propaganda built in.  Does anyone
|have any comments about it?

  Well, aside from cars causing pollution and mass transit not, I'd suspect
there's nothing in the game that would corrupt your children...
                __
  david parsons \/ orc@pell.chi.il.us

  (followups to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games)
Xref: sparky rec.railroad:6510 ba.transportation:2001
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,ba.transportation
Subject: Re: RR bridges, was Cost of transit systems vs highways
Date: 15 Aug 92 05:13:23 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: LLNL

In article <2317@tymix.Tymnet.COM> romeo@niagara.Tymnet.COM (Michael Stimac) writes:
>In article <1992Aug15.011032.16062@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:

@were also slated to be BART counties. But Marin County pulled out
@after arguments over whether or not it would be safe to send BART
@trains over the Golden Gate Bridge. San Mateo County pulled out, after

>This is interesting; I've read that it is a general principle of
>civil engineering that a suspension bridge is not a suitable choice
>for a railroad bridge. The Golden Gate bridge is of the suspension
>type.

>All of the railroad bridges I know of are designs other than
>suspension.

	Actually, the Bay Bridge was once used for multiple-car trains
for the first few years of its existence, after its construction in
1938 or so, but its engineers worried like hell over whether the
bridge could support these trains. After that, it was used by the Key
System light-rail system until 1958, with no real qualms from the
engineers :-) There is a proposal to revive rail service across the
Bay Bridge, called BayLink, but it is also expected to involve
light-rail vehicles. I haven't yet seen any proposals for light-rail
service across the Golden Gate bridge, however.

	BART trains are actually relatively light by
intercity-railroad standards; a single car weighs about 32 tons,
making a total of 320 tons for a(n empty) 10-car train. 80
passengers/car adds 60 tons to make 380 tons for a full 10-car train.

	BART car weight is probably comparable to that of some
intercity-rail cars of comparable capacity; BART lacks locomotives,
however, which can be _very_ heavy. That Amtrak workhorse, the F40,
weighs about 80 tons, and some big diesels can go up to 200 tons. Some
steam locomotives have been even heavier. A fully loaded freight car
can go up to 100 tons. I wonder how heavy a (flat-road) truck can be?

	I'm mentioning weights here because I wonder if weight is the
big problem with trains on suspension bridges.

/Loren
Xref: sparky rec.railroad:6638 ba.transportation:2046
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,ba.transportation
Subject: Re: RR bridges, was Cost of transit systems vs highways
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:52:17 GMT
Followup-To: ba.transportation
Distribution: na
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <1992Aug18.035549.4394@redsox.bsw.com>, campbell@redsox.bsw.com (Larry Campbell) writes:
> (Boston's Green Line uses both Boeing LRVs (yuck) and newer Kinki LRVs
> (very nice, except that the air conditioning is too loud and sometimes
> too effective). Both go 50 MPH.)

I find it extraordinary that one can have air conditioning that is
'too effective'.  Are you sure about that?  Did it get the interior
below 50F?

	--Hal
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: strasser@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: <None>
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:46:16 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

Greetings to fellow RR interest group members.  I'm doing a little private
research on the Pere Marquette RR here in Michigan.  I have found brief references
to an article that appeared in TRAINS sometime in 1945 about the PM.  I've had
very little success getting ahold of the complete citation.  If anyone can
provide the exact month in '45, and the page numbers I'd be out of the woods
and could order a copy of the article via the interlibrary loan service here at
Western Michigan Univ. where I am an Asst. Prof in the libraries.
Thanks in advance to anyone who may help!
	Dennis Strasser - Internet address:  strasser@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Subject: Re: Train rides
Organization: LLNL
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:58:41 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.072459.17940@news.weeg.uiowa.edu> smills@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (MuffinHead) writes:
>First post to rec.railroad.

:   I've only been on a moving train 3 times in my life. The first was on
:a steam loc painted bright blue at some fair. Next was our senior class
:trip on Amtrak to Colorado. Both of these were before I got into trains.
:The 3rd was on the Star Clipper dinner train in Waverly, IA. They have a
:couple Fsomethings, maybe F7's? I'm not that good at spotting locomotives.

	If it was an Amtrak train, it was probably an F40.

:   My hometown lost its railroad about 10 years ago. Then they bought it
:and ran it for about a year. Damn trucking line put it out of business. I
:loved watching the brown or red Milwaukee engines pull into town when I was
:little. Or was it Rock Island? Both I think. Oh well.

	You sound like you're looking for opportunities to ride
trains. Aside from visiting some more populated area like the
Northeast Corridor neighborhood (Boston -- NYC -- Washington) or
California, you could ride one of Amtrak's long-distance trains (call
Amtrak's number, 1-800-USA-RAIL, for more info).

Xref: sparky rec.railroad:6501 ba.transportation:1989 talk.politics.misc:39822 talk.environment:3260
From: brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Trains - II.
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:13:10 GMT
Reply-To: brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan)
Organization: Columbia University

In article <1992Aug13.022741.3504@colorado.edu>
paulchem@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Icarus) writes:

>1] This is a write up about train travel in India.
>   If you dont like writeups about train travel hit "n" now.

But if you do, and missed this, go back!  I don't have much interest
in India or its railways and enjoyed this story very much.  I passed
it to a friend not on Usenet and he sent back the following-- showing
perhaps the universality of the railway experience--


From: WARES@rhoda.fordham.edu

"The troup train from Rouen--that interminable, twelve-mile-an-hour
train, in which no two coaches were alike--left at about ten in the
evening. Three other officers and I were allotted a compartment.
There was no heating; for light we brought our own candles; for
sanitation there were the windows. The journey would last about
fifteen hours.  It was freezing hard.  In the tunnel just outside
Rouen (all my generation remember it) there was a sudden wrenching and
grating noise and one of our doors dropped off bodily into the dark.
We sat with chattering teeth till the next stop, when the officer
commanding the train came bustling up and demanded what we had done
with our door. 'It came off, sir,' said we. 'Don't talk nonsense,'
said he, 'it wouldn't have come off if there hadn't been some
horseplay!'--as if nothing were more natural than that four officers
(being, of course, provided with screwdrivers) should begin a night
journey in winter by removing the door of their carriage."

					--C. S. Lewis, _Surprised by Joy_


--Joe Brennan
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ardie@UIUC (Richard D. McClary)
Subject: TIF-to-GIF conversion
Organization: Department of Plant Pathology
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 12:29:41 GMT
Keywords: Graphics

	I have a .tif of a newspaper picture.  It shows Wabash F-7A #1189, 
newly restored, completing its maiden voyage into the Monticello, IL Wabash 
depot (now on old IC tracks, but the old WAB tracks are not available to 
private museum railroads).  Considering I was using a ScanMan 32 and "Gray" 
software on a newspaper, the results are actually pretty good!  However, 
attempts to turn it into a .gif file involve converting it to a .pcx file 
first.  This looks like mud!  Suggestions for a good, DOS-based (not Win31) 
TIF-to-GIF program?  Thanks.
						Richard
From: gregb@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Greg Brahms)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:02:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Driver clunk
Organization: HP Signal Analysis Division - Rohnert Park, CA
Newsgroups: rec.railroad

If I understand you correctly, I believe what you heard was rod slop.  This
is normal but becomes louder as rod bearings wear.  It usually results from
a side-to-side motion of the rods.

Cheers,

Greg Brahms
"I'd rather be riding my speeder."


Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: gnn@wsl.dec.com (George Neville-Neil)
Subject: Re: Comparing other systems to BART
Organization: Western Software Lab
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 05:11:17 GMT

Hi Folks,

	A couple of days ago I mentioned that the people who did BART
didn't do the Auto Fare Collection for DC Metro (WMATA).  According to
_The Story of Metro_ by Ronald Deiter, IBM built the machines for BART.
WMATA originally contracted with CDC to produce the machines and gates
but when the price estimates got too high in 1985 they dumped them for
a San Diego company called Cubic Wester Data Corp.  CW delivered the machines
that are currently used by Metro. They also took over the BART contract
from IBM.

Hope this helps...

Later,
George



--
If you believe that there is a god, a god that made your body, and yet
you think that you can do anything with that body that's dirty, then the
fault lies with the manufacturer.
					Lenny Bruce
Xref: sparky rec.railroad:6575 ba.transportation:2026
From: gnn@wsl.dec.com (George Neville-Neil)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,ba.transportation
Subject: Re: RR bridges, was Cost of transit systems vs highways
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:55:55 GMT
Reply-To: gnn@wsl.dec.com (George Neville-Neil)
Distribution: na
Organization: DEC Western Software Lab

In article <1992Aug17.192242.10660@pbhya.PacBell.COM>, whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
|> You're comparing an LRV full out against a BART train in service.  I
|> encountered a story over ten years ago (from two different,
|> independent sources) that some BART engineers once tried to find out
|> how fast the trains could go.  Report was that they lost their nerve
|> going around a turn at 120 mph . . .
|> 

Which is when the motor burned out right?  Besides LRVs could go
much faster than 55 as well.  I'm talking about the use of both
systems in practice, not in a theoretical sense.

Later,
George



-- 
If you believe that there is a god, a god that made your body, and yet
you think that you can do anything with that body that's dirty, then the
fault lies with the manufacturer.
					Lenny Bruce
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ehr@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Ernest H. Robl)
Subject: Re: Note on Newport News Wreck
Summary: not fully electrically locked
Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:13:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.084731.8424@mailhost.ocs.mq.edu.au>, eoliver@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au (Eddie Oliver) writes:
> 
> Some recent postings have suggested that it is possible in US/Canadian power
> signalling areas for a switch to be moved after the train has passed the
> protecting signal.
> 
> In every safeworking system I know, the releasing arrangements for switches
> in power-signalling areas are arranged so that you cannot move the switches
> indiscriminately in such a manner. The occupancy of the relevant track 
> circuits will prevent the switches from being released, typically until
> some conditions are specifically tested to ensure safety (e.g. until a
> short approach track has been occupied for some sufficient time period).
> 
> What am I missing? Is such a precaution not provided in US/Canadian
> installations? Or are we talking about non-power-signalled areas, in
> which case the aspect of the previous signal seems substantially
> irrelevant????
> 
> Eddie Oliver


There is a difference between switches which are part of an 
interlocking and fully electrically locked and switches which are
not part of the routes controlled by the CTC installation.

In the first case, a variety of logic tests govern whether the
switch can be thrown and the switch position is in turn reflected
by signal indications.

In the second case, the switch is only locked mechanically, with a
switch lock.  It is, however, connected to the signal system so 
that if it is not properly lined for the main route, the signal
governing entrance to the block will show a restrictive aspect.

In this second case, the siding is not used for meets but for 
setting out cars, such as for a team track and industry loading
area.  In normal operations, the train is already in the block
when it stops for switching operations and the switch is thrown
to provide access to the siding.

The electrical connection for monitoring the switch position is
normally only for safteety purposes -- not for route control.  In
most cases, trains are not allowed to clear (completely leave the
mainline tracks) at these points.

-- Ernest

-- 

"My other computer is a Nikon N8008." -- Ernest H. Robl
Ernest H. Robl (ehr@ecsvax)  Durham, NC, USA   +1  919   286-3845
                                         FAX:  +1  919   286-1696
From: rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Comparing other systems to BART
Date: 12 Aug 1992 19:19:48 GMT
Organization: Bolt, Beranek & Newman, Inc.
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: spcsun25.bbn.com

In article <1992Aug12.084835@wsl.dec.com>, gnn@wsl.dec.com (George Neville-Neil) writes:

|> The fare collection systems were done by different companies.  I believe
|> that IBM did the DC Metro.  I can check when I get home.  I know that
|> the collection system is one place where Metro didn't learn from
|> BART and therefore repeated some mistakes which BART had fixed
|> before Metro was built.

Can you elaborate?  I've always found the DC fare collection system
to be pleasant and efficient, and would like to know more about
its `mistakes'.

-- 
Ron Newman		rnewman@bbn.com
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,ba.transportation
From: campbell@redsox.bsw.com (Larry Campbell)
Subject: Re: RR bridges, was Cost of transit systems vs highways
Organization: The Boston Software Works, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 03:55:49 GMT


In article <1992Aug17.192242.10660@pbhya.PacBell.COM>, whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
> In article <1992Aug17.102628@wsl.dec.com> gnn@wsl.dec.com (George Neville-Neil) writes:
> >Most current LRVs can travel at 55mph, which they do on private
> >rights of way.  MAX (Portland) is very speedy once out of downtown,
> >and SCCTD (San Jose) cruises quite nicely once passed Technology
> >Center.  BART will do ~70mph on the Concord line, very speedy, but
> >only 15mph faster than the LRVs at full out.  
> 
> You're comparing an LRV full out against a BART train in service....

I don't think an LRV has to be "full out" to go 55.  On Boston's Green
Line, even fully loaded trains go 50 MPH on the straight stretches of
grade-separated track (the Riverside line).  I imagine they could go
faster, but 50 is the speed limit.

(Boston's Green Line uses both Boeing LRVs (yuck) and newer Kinki LRVs
(very nice, except that the air conditioning is too loud and sometimes
too effective). Both go 50 MPH.)
-- 
Larry Campbell             The Boston Software Works, Inc., 120 Fulton Street
campbell@redsox.bsw.com    Boston, Massachusetts 02109 (USA)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
Subject: Re: New Amtrak Routes
Reply-To: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 05:00:24 GMT


In a previous article, schumann@msus1.msus.edu () says:

>The publication _News from the National Association of Railroad
>Passengers_ for July 1992 has an article titled "Amtrak Releases New
>Routes Study."  It reports that Amtrak has issued a new 121 page
>report that examines possible new routes.  The routes covered in this
>report include the following:

   I guess I'm a little surprised not to see the Denver-El Paso route 
mentioned.  Amtrak seemed quite gung-ho on the idea a few years back, anybody
know what happened to it?  Maybe Claytor paid a visit to the sparcely populated
wastes of the Jordnada del Muerto of New Mexico and decided to cut his losses.

-- 
 o__II___---__---__---___I~~~|~______________    |~~~~~~|~~|~~~~~~| |~~~~~~|~~|
 _|______________________|___|_|     3000    `\  |      |  |      | |      |  |
/ o~~O-O-O-O-O~~O-O-O-O-O~~o~~~~o-o-o~~~~o-o-o~~~~o--o~~~~~~~~o--o~~~o--o~~~~~~
Evan Werkema---------------------------------------------------elw4@po.cwru.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,misc.headlines,sci.misc
From: msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader)
Subject: Re: Note on Newport News Wreck
Followup-To: rec.railroad
Summary: A British comparison
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, Canada
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 07:39:08 GMT


Just for comparison, in 1967 a London-Bristol express derailed at Didcot.
Based on a verbal description by the railway writer O.S. Nock, who was
a passenger in the train, the track layout was something like this:

		siding ________________________ -> up relief
		siding _________/______________ <- down relief
	-> ___________________/__/_____________ -> up main
	<- ____________________/_______________ <- down main

The train was on the down relief line with a speed limit of 60 mph.
It was supposed to slow to 25 mph for the two crossovers to the down
main line.  The driver was apparently not as familiar with the layout
as he should have been, and thought he was continuing straight ahead;
in addition, he thought the speed limit was 70 mph.  So the train
entered the 25 mph crossovers at about that speed.  According to Nock,
the brakes had still not been applied when his car, the 8th, reached
the first crossover.

#  When we approached Didcot station without the slightest slackening
#  of speed I began to get concerned.  Recalling that in the fairly
#  recent changeover of the signalling from mechanical to colour light
#  there had been some track alterations I wondered if a high-speed
#  junction had been laid in, to enable full-speed transition from
#  relief to main to be made.  ...  Crossover there certainly had to
#  be, because the relief lines end...  But while I was quickly turning
#  this over in my mind the coach in which I was travelling was suddenly
#  but very smoothly swept to the left, and then in a split second
#  all was chaos.

		O.S.Nock, "Historic Railway Disasters", 1970 edition
		(Arrow Books, ISBN 0-09-907720-5)

The diesel locomotive, the first 5 cars, and the front of the 6th car
held the track through all 4 switches.  The rear bogie of the 6th car
derailed and followed the up main line.  The 7th, 8th, and 9th cars
came off their bogies; the 7th and 8th fell over to the right, while the
9th came uncoupled and fell over to the left.

Nock reports these effects without commenting on why those particular
cars behaved as they did.  One obvious conjecture is that the sideways
pounding of the switches by successive vehicles running at almost 3 times
the speed limit was enough to misalign the track slightly and this caused
the derailment of the final cars when combined with the high speed.  Or
slight variations in the physical properties of the different cars may
have made the difference.

There was one death in the accident, and 23 people were injured.

Followups are directed to rec.railroad.
-- 
Mark Brader		"Where is down special?" ...		"Good."
Toronto			"Do you refuse to answer my question?"	"Don't know."
utzoo!sq!msb, msb@sq.com

This article is in the public domain.
Xref: sparky rec.railroad:6780 ba.transportation:2101 talk.politics.misc:41064 talk.environment:3315
From: ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,ba.transportation,talk.politics.misc,talk.environment
Subject: Re: Cost of transit systems vs highways
Date: 21 Aug 92 16:45:37 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

Propaganda?  You bet.  The stupid game won't let you build a city without
some cars!  Or so I've heard.
-- 
****************************************************************************
Eric House			"My employer doesn't share its opinions with
			   	 me, so I can share only mine with you"
From: btarbox@sw.stratus.com (Brian Tarbox)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Coast Starlight late again
Date: 13 Aug 92 12:44:17 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

>Is Amtrak deferring maintenance to the point that it is 
>impacting their ability to maintain schedule?  Or, are the
>F40s so old that they are falling apart? Or, is it a
>combination of both?

While on the California Zephyr last week (eastbound)I heard a horror 
story from some other passengers about their westbound trip.

One their train's F40s died so Amtrak sent a replacement F40, which
also died.  They had no electric power to the consist for about 8 hours.
Since the diner car was out of action they stopped the train at
Kentucky Fried Chicken for 450 takeout dinners!

Gotta love that American style, eh?
From: gregg@pinot.zehntel.com (Gregg Fuhriman)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: UP hog train cars
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:45:33 GMT
Reply-To: gregg@pinot.UUCP (Gregg Fuhriman)
Distribution: na
Organization: Zehntel, Inc. Walnut Creek, CA

New cars were built for this service a few years back.  There was also an article
in CTC Board about this operation several years ago.  I think this article had
an interview with the man in Las Vegas who is responsible for watering the hogs,
and how he was teaching his son to carry on in his tracks.
From: Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: VIA's excellent, Amtrak sticks bigtime
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:28:10 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

> CZ94 writes:
> 
> They are pulled by FP9s rather than F40s, which probably aren't equipped to
> supply HEP.


Right...they are not.  They still use steam generators.

> 
> 
> 1. Ham & Cheese Sandwich         $ 4.25
> 

One nice surprise for me last month was when I travelled to Ottawa from
Toronto.  The ticket price (about $55 I think) included snacks (peanuts etc),
free coffee, tea, pop etc, and a full lunch including the above sandwich, a
sclie of cheddar cheese, crackers, pop etc for free.  This is a nice touch as
in the past this was charged for.

One other note...if you ever get a chance to try a VIA Ham & Cheese sandwich,
DO IT!  I don't know who their suppliers are, but the are absolutely fantastic!
Ham PILED on a soft croissant, with large slices of white cheese.  Andsolutely
delicious!


--

 steve_hooper@mindlink.bc.ca   []  Conductor on the High Iron of
 OR      a777@mindlink.bc.ca   []     CP Rail - Cascade Sub
 The Great White North in      []
 Vancouver, BC CANADA          []   Opinions are mine, NOT CP's