HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eoliver@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au (Eddie Oliver)
Subject: Re: CityRail (Sydney)
Organization: Macquarie University, Australia.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 03:20:09 GMT

In article <1992Dec9.084034.21235@physiol.su.OZ.AU> john@physiol.su.OZ.AU (John Mackin) writes:
>> The cheapest [weekly rail ticket] is A$7.70 per week (about US$5.40),
>> covering the inner city zone (to Redfern, Milsons Point and Kings
>> Cross).  The next up is A$13.00 per week and covers a much larger area
>> (to Tempe, St Leonards etc).  They go on up the further you go away.
>> The dearest, I think, covers the entire CityRail network and is about
>> A$30 per week.
>
>This is interesting.  I have to admit that it's been a long, long time
>since I had occasion to buy a weekly rail ticket, but I've seen friends
>do it fairly recently, and I didn't think that it worked like that at all.
>The above-quoted text seems to me to imply that weekly tickets work
>sort of like travelpasses, in that they are valid for travel within
>specified zones.  Certainly the final quoted sentence strongly suggests
>that one of the dearest weekly tickets should be valid to go from
>any station in the System to any other.
>

There are two types of weekly ticket: station-to-station (rail only, with few
exceptions) and travelpasses which are zone-based and cover government buses
and ferries also.

If you want to travel over multiple routes, the travelpasses are the 
appropriate methods in most cases.
>
>> At off-peak times, the return ticket is 20c more than
>> the single fare, even to far flung places outside of CityRail!
>
That's not true universally. SOME off-peak tickets for certain distance
ranges are 20c more than the singles, but others are not. I don't understand
the full history of the politics etc. but it is a complicated story.

Essentially, they decided to set a maximum fare for an off-peak return journey
anywhere in the CityRail area. This used to be $16, I think it is now about
$16.90. Consequently there are off-peak return fares which ARE CHEAPER than
single journey fares. On the other hand, there is a jump after a certain
point in the scale where the off-peak tickets cease to be 20c dearer than
single tickets, and are more expensive. Thus it goes something like

shortest journeys: off-peak = single + 20 cents
longer journeys: off-peak = single + greater than 20 cents
longest journeys: off-peak  = less than single

There have been a few other errors in these recent postings, which have
generally been too trivial to correct (e.g. re the exact boundaries of the
CityRail area).

Fare structures have had other crazy anomalies, like trains to Canberra
(a Countrylink destination) being amalgamated with CityRail services to
Goulburn, so that if you travel to Goulburn, you can pay a Countrylink
fare to travel in their part of the train or a (cheaper) CityRail fare to
travel in their part!

Eddie Oliver
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: roma@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Roma)
Subject: Re: CMStP&P RR
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:57:57 GMT

Joe.Russ <Joe.Russ@mixcom.mixcom.com> writes:

>>diamond logo in the late 1940's.  However, the official corporate
>>name remained Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific until the
>>Milwaukee was merged into the Soo Line in 1985.

>Okay, if that was the official corporate name, where did the (Chicago
>Milwaukee Corp.) come from? Keep in mind there are currently two CMCs
>- one is the above which still holds railroad interests in trackage,
>equipment, a shortline or two, and some other businesses while the
>other, the CMC Heartland Partners, is a spin-off of it which was
>formed to handle the real estate transactions after the merger but has
>failed (at least here in Milwaukee) to do anything.

The Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific was the official name of the
rail operating company.  Chicago Milwaukee Corporation is/was the holding
company that was the parent of CMStP&P and owned CMC's non-rail assets.  A
number of other railroads are/were owned by holding companies.  The Illinois
Central Railroad (and later the ICG) was owned by Illinois Central Industries.
Besides the railroad, the parent company owned Midas Mufflers, Pet Foods, a
Pepsi Cola bottling firm, and a panty hose manufacturer, among other things.
In the late eighties, ICI sold off the rail assets and is now known as
Whitman, Inc.

This practice exists for a variety of reasons.  One of the reasons has to
do with federal regulations that prohibited railroads from entering other
markets.  This prohibition doesn't prevent the railroad from forming a
parent holding company that can diversify.  There are also tax reasons one
might do this but I am fuzzy on the details.

Right off the top of my head, I think CSX, UP, KCS, D&RGW/SP are all owned
by holding companies that operate non-rail businesses.  There are undoubtedly
others.
-- 
Jon Roma
Computing and Communications Services Office,
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Internet:  roma@uiuc.edu      	UUCP:      uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!roma
From: Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Incident on Boston (MBTA) Commuter Rail
Date: 18 Dec 92 20:33:46 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

> Ron Mura writes:
>
> The train was proceeding at normal speed (45 mph?).  As we approached
> the crossover point called CP (control point) 11, near route 128,
> there was a loud "pop."  The brakes were applied (either manually or
> automatically, I couldn't tell) immediately and everyone was jolted.
> The train slowed rapidly but still went through the signals and both
> switches of the crossover.  After a minute the train slowly
> backed up to a point before the signals.


It could have been anything...torpedoes are used in many different situations
as  a means of flag protection.  Perhaps a foreman had some work to do and
was unable to get a proper Rule 42 (Form Y2 train order protection), and
simply placed a Rule 40 manual flag there.  In this case, a train would have
hit the torpedoes, then stopped at the flagman's position, received
instructions, and proceeded.  The backing up is a bit strange, but I cannot
say.

>
> The train seemingly had gone through a red signal at a dangerous point.


Why do you say that?

Torpedoes are used all over the place, although not as much now with radios
being so easy to use.  But hitting a torpedo at a crossover or CP does not
mean the guy went through a signal.  Far from it.  If he had gone through a
signal, he would have plugged it (Emergancy application).  And there would
not have been a torpedo.  Who would have placed it there, KNOWING the next
train was going to run a signal??  Naw, this is very very doubtful.


Sounds to me like something quite normal under the rules took place, and
rather than try and explain the rule book to you, the managers you talked to
simply brushed you off after they discovered that what happened was quite
legal.

BTW, you say that you got jolted...well, when you hit torpedoes, it scares
the living shit out of the engine crew (trust me, I've been over them!).
When it happens, you are required to proceed at restricted speed, and the
faster you get the train slowed down, the safer, because at that point you do
not know why they were placed there.  Thus, I am sure the hog gave a full-set
brake as soon as he ran over the torps, and thus the big jerk of the train.


--

 steve_hooper@mindlink.bc.ca   []  The Great White North in
 OR      a777@mindlink.bc.ca   []   Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Conductor on the Cascade Sub.  []         CP Rail
                     Opinions are my OWN!
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 10:12:57 -0500 
From: Steve_Lammert@transarc.com
Subject: Eurotunnel/ Transmanche feud


   LONDON -DJ- Eurotunnel PLC said ''the way is open to continue constructive
 discussions'' with Transmanche Link, the 10-member construction consortium
 feuding with it over cost overruns on the English Channel tunnel.   
 
   The contractors had said negotiations between them and Eurotunnel concerning
 1.2 billion pounds of cost overruns on the project ''are at a standstill.''
   
 
   ''Eurotunnel's first priority remains the completion of the project
 as early as already jointly agreed possible with TML, so that it can
 open for revenue service in December 1993,'' Eurotunnel said.   
 
   ''In that context, Eurotunnel notes with particular regret the indication
 at the end of TML's statement that they may withhold co-operation, thus
 delaying completion,'' Eurotunnel said in a press release.   
 
   Transmanche Link had said in a release that it announces ''with regret
 that they have been unable to reach agreement with their client, Eurotunnel,
 on the payment to which they are entitled. The member companies today
 confirm their unanimous view that the total sum proposed by Eurotunnel
 and the structure of the proposals, particularly the quantity and nature
 of the non-cash financial instruments, remain unacceptable.''   
 
   Eurotunnel was originally slated to open June 15, 1993, but the date
 was officially pushed back as a result of building delays and the cost
 overruns that are at dispute with the contractors.   
 
   A Transmanche Link spokesperson said a full opening by December 1993
 is definitely out, and the partial opening it was discussing with Eurotunnel
 is now in jeopardy. ''The further delays, the less likely'' it is to
 open on time, the spokesperson said.
From: sef@drutx.ATT.COM (Scott E. Farleigh)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: New Superliner Question
Date: 15 Dec 92 16:00:12 GMT
Organization: AT&T, Denver, CO

In article <15DEC92.10597228.0220@VM1.MCGILL.CA>, CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94) writes:
> According to the Sept. 1991 Passenger Train Journal, the order is
> for 140 cars: 6 deluxe sleepers, 55 standard sleepers, 20 diners,
> 15 lounges, 12 crew dorms, and 32 coaches.  There's an option for
> an additional 39 cars.
> 
> Tom Box

What is the difference between a deluxe sleeper and a standard
sleeper? Way back in 1983 my wife and I rode the CZ/Desert Wind
from Denver to L.A. we had the cheapest room. I thought that there
was only one type of sleeper car.

Scott Farleigh
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Newsgroups: rec.railroad

In rec.railroad, js@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Jon Sawyer) writes:

> In rec.railroad, M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org writes:
> 
> >   Until then the original D&RG route via Pueblo and the Royal Gorge
> >   (originally built as a narrow gauge line) was the only "Main Line
> >   Through the Rockies".
> 
> Not quite.  The Colorado Midland ran from Colorado Springs, west
> through Woodland Park, Buena Vista, north up to Leadville, then west
> through the Hagerman (and later the Busk-Ivanhoe) tunnel under the
> continental divide and on to Glenwood Springs.  From there it ran on
> D&RG RoW to Grand Junction and perhaps beyond.  The CM was standard
> gauge all the way.  It was completed around 1890 and went out of
> business in 1921.
> 
> 			    j "an aspiring CM modeller" s
> 
> PS - Since this thread was originally about walking tunnels, I thought
>      I'd mention that both the Hagerman and Busk-Ivanhoe tunnels are
>      impassible; the Hagerman has collapsed and the B-I is fenced and
>      is used as an irrigation water tunnel.

Busk-Ivanhoe was actually built by an "independent" company (with ties to
CM, but not like the typical construction company which built most RRs and
then gave the RoW to the RR a section at a time), and LEASED to the CM, at
rates which made CM try the old "high line" again when finances got low.
This cost the CM some 9 million dollars just the get the high line to 
Hagerman back up to standards (there were miles of snowsheds, and some
fifteen trestles, one 1100 feet long, on the high line) and then in 1899
(I think) the line was closed for most of January, all of February, all
of March, and some of April. After this fiasco, CM bought the Busk-Ivanhoe
outright, even though they weren't flush with cash. When Albert Carleton
bought the CM around the beginning of WWI, he was fixing it up to be a first-
class operation, until the government shut it down, and the CM never 
recovered. After the tracks were taken out of B-I, it was called the Carleton
Tunnel, and used as a one-way auto tunnel for some years. Now, as you say,
it carries only water. :-( 
 
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
o                                          i---i_________________      o
o    Warren T. Brill, a.k.a.          *----|[|]|  #### #### #### |*    o
o    wbrill@hpxxx.fc.hp.com         i_|___/|___|\________________|_i   o
o    wbrill@hpfcso.fc.hp.com       =++()=()=() `========' ()=()=()++=  o
o                                  =================================== o
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: bobmacd@well.sf.ca.us (Robert MacDowell)
Subject: Re: X2000 run on Thursday 12/10/1992
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 03:33:49 GMT


FBCB@iunsys.iun.indiana.edu (Dave Chary)  says:
>Thursday, December 10:  Amtrak will hold a presentation and test run
>of the X2000 trainset to the media between 10:00 and 2:00 pm...
>What probably happened, though, was that two of the test runs were
>successful (The Lancaster-Harrisburg and the Brunswick-Trenton 150
>mph) that they decided to show its power to the media.  What make
>this more amazing if true is that the Harrisburg-Lancaster segment
>is still jointed, not welded rail.

Does anybody know if the X-2000 ran 150 on jointed rail?
I'm very curious because I'm writing a piece of fiction which revolves
around a designer trying to adapt high speed technology to existing
railroad lines.

-- Bob MacDowell
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,alt.radio.scanner
From: adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian Brandt)
Subject: Amtrak police frequency?
Organization: Northern Telecom Inc, Mountain View, CA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:41:56 GMT

Can anyone tell me the Amtrak police frequencies?  I'm specifically
interested in the frequency used by the detachment that covers the
Amtrak-operated CalTrain service between San Francisco and San Jose
and on to Gilroy...  Thanks.

-- 

Adrian Brandt (415) 940-2379
UUCP: ...!ames!ntmtv!adrian
ARPA: ntmtv!adrian@ames.arc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jbvb@vax.ftp.com  (James B. VanBokkelen)
Subject: Re: New York <-> Washington DC: air shuttle was better
Nntp-Software: PC/TCP NNTP
Reply-To: jbvb@ftp.com
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:43:07

In article <Bz9FrL.8LK@cmcl2.nyu.edu> mckenney@gauss.cims.nyu.edu (Alan M. McKenney) writes:

    ... By contrast, I have never heard of any public transportation to
    an AMTRAK station beyond what would have gone there in the absence
    of the station. 

In Boston, considerable money has/will be spent moving the bus
terminals to near South Station.  New subway construction put the
Orange line near Back Bay.  DC's metro goes to Union Station.
Wilmington, DE has bus lines uptown.

    With the possible exception of Yonkers (I haven't driven there), none
    have short-term (10--30 min.) parking so you can see someone off and
    help them with their luggage.

Rte. 128 outside Boston does.  This is where I drive to if I'm going
south on the corridor, even though South Station is 30 minutes closer,
just because it has a big, cheap (by airline standards) lot.

    ... I have never seen signs directing you to an AMTRAK station,
    despite the fact that you can *see* the Hartford and Windsor Locks
    stations from the highway, and the Springfield station is just off I-91.
    (I do believe that the freeway exits near the New Haven and the
    Albany/Renssalaer stations are marked.)

I had felt that NY did a much better job than many in putting up
signs for RR stations - I've seen them from Syracuse to Rouses Point
to Brewster.  They come in handy railfanning, but I will admit that
they aren't huge, and they aren't brightly colored, and they don't
cover every possible route to the station.  I've seen similar signs
in CA, MA, CT and VT.

        A final complaint: every commercial airport has a car rental
    on-site, that is pretty much open whenever the planes are flying.
    So far, only in Washington have I found a car rental at a train
    station.

From personal experience, Philadelphia and Wilmington both have them
right at the station - in Baltimore and Denver there is a free phone
and they'll come pick you up, just like many airports.

        Impossible if you have more luggage than you can easily
        carry.  Often crowded.

Personally, I don't like *any* travel with more luggage than I can easily
carry (frame backpack and a couple of small bags in hand).  Whether I'm
flying or training (two weeks in Asia, or a recent 3 week cross country
rail trip in US and Canada), I want my luggage where I can see it, and
I don't want to have to wait/pay for a Red Cap/cab/bellhop.  This is why
hotels can charge so much for laundry service...

James B. VanBokkelen		2 High St., North Andover, MA  01845
FTP Software Inc.		voice: (508) 685-4000  fax: (508) 794-4488
From: msjohnso@donald.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Mark Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Carl Loucks selling timetables
Date: 14 Dec 92 21:59:52 GMT
Organization: NCR Corporation Wichita, KS

santafe@watserv.ucr.edu (michael a parisi) writes:



>Has anyone ever bought timetables from this guy?  I was wondering if 
>the timetables are in good condition and if they seem worth the money.

I used to buy some stuff from him every once in a while; he puts out a
monthly price sheet which alternates between Employee TT's, Public TT's
and other railroad related stuff (e.g. advertising brochures, loco 
operation manuals)

His prices are high compared to some other sources of railroadiana, but
his selection is probably better than most. In general, his price for a
particular item seems to be 1.5-2x what you'll see a similar item priced
at a rail show.

My impression is that he's honest...if something isn't in the best of 
shape, he'll say so. Also, if you want something out of his monthly lists,
get a call in the same day you get the list, if it's one of a kind. He 
lets it go to the first comer, holds stuff for 10 days after a call pending
a check. If you're #2, he _might_ take your name as a JIC, in the event
the first guy doesn't follow up.

>There is an ad in the Dec. issue of trains advertising a set of 3 system
>timetables: one from the 40's, one from the 50's, and one from the 60's.
>The price is $20 and you get to choose from a list of railroads.
>My question is: do you get to match the railroads with a particular time
>period?  (e.g.- I want a AT&SF from the 40's, a PRR from the 50's, and a
>DL&W from the 60's.)

Don't know; I've usually bought one of a kind items. If you have any train
shows coming your way, it'll be a (somewhat) less expensive way to get 
the things you really want.
-- 
Mark Johnson                          USnail: NCR Peripheral Products Division
E-mail:  Mark.Johnson@WichitaKS.NCR.COM       3718 N. Rock Rd.
Voice: (316) 636-8189 [V+ 654-8189]           Wichita, KS  67226
[Non-business email: 76670.1775@compuserve.com]
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan)
Subject: Re: PATH (was Re: H&M )
Reply-To: brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 18:06:21 GMT

In article <11085@disc.dla.mil> ioiab09@disc.dla.mil (william spollen) writes:

>The H&M Terminal building was not demolished.  The structure remains.It was
>gutted, rebuilt and refaced.  It sits on the NE corner of the World Trade 
>Center Complex, across from the Post Office.

Not so.  Hudson Terminal was on the west side of Church/Trinity and
had almost direct access to the BMT Cortlandt St station.  Look at an
old map if you don't believe me.

--Joe Brennan

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp)
Subject: Re: PATH (was Re: H&M )
Organization: LA&W RR
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 13:17:40 GMT

In article <102358@netnews.upenn.edu> sfsmith@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Sandy F. Smith, Jr.) writes:
>In article <1992Dec8.015603.9212@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, R.Todd.Minsk@dartmouth.edu (R. Todd Minsk) writes:
>> 
>> In article <1992Dec7.160108.1370@bony1.bony.com>

>The H&M tunnels were constructed to the same dimensions as those of the IRT,
>as the H&M management envisioned the possibility of abtaining a franchise
>from the City of New York that would enable it to operate through the city
>subway tunnels in the future.
>
>When the City awarded the contracts for the new subway under Broadway to the
>Brooklyn Rapid Transit in 1917, this hope was dashed, as the BRT's rolling
>stock was both longer and wider than the IRT's.

I realize that.  For the longest time the IND/BMT cars were ~60' long by
~10' wide (until the R40's(?) which are ~75' long) while the IRT cars
are something like ~54' x 8 1/2'.  I don't have my NYCTA data handy =B^(

I somehow thought that the PATH cars had IRT length and IND/BMT width.
Since my PATH info is with my NYCTA info I can't look this up right now.
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Tunnel Motors
Date: 15 Dec 92 05:29:45 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <6092@sumax.seattleu.edu> daveike@sumax.seattleu.edu (Eickerman) writes:
> 
> Some people mentioned the Tunnel Motors that DRG&W and SP bought.  What
> amazes me is that they have cabs.  The theory is that they were designed
> to be used in the back of a consist of locos, thus they wouldn't need a
> cab.  I have also seen pictures of SD40T-2s leading the pack of 'normal'
> locomotives through tunnel country.  It would seem logical to save money
> and not put the cab on or the controls, and just make it a B unit.

I suspsect the railroads have learned that the cost savings of "B units"
are generally outweighed by the loss of flexibility over the lifetime of
the units...

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...
but no way officially representing:   uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
Commodore, Engineering Department     domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: dptodey@IASTATE.EDU (Dennis P Todey)
Subject: Milwaukee Road Line Northwest 
Reply-To: dptodey@IASTATE.EDU (Dennis P Todey)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:31:51 GMT

Having been a Milwaukee fan since I was young, (their
Kansas City line went through my hometown) I have
always wondered where their line to the Pacific went.
They had a line through to Rapid City, SD.  I think
it went northwest from their, but I'm not sure.
Can anyone fill me in on its route ?
From: ovr@lk-hp-19.hut.fi (Otto-Ville Ronkainen)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Switch Heaters?
Date: 14 Dec 1992 16:43:35 GMT
Organization: L{nsi-Uudenmaan Keisarillinen Polyteknillinen Koulu
Distribution: inet
Reply-To: ovr@snakemail.hut.fi (Otto-Ville Ronkainen)
NNTP-Posting-Host: lk-hp-19.hut.fi

In article <1gh3o1INNog1@hp-col.col.hp.com> tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke) writes:
>Do switches have heaters built into them to allow them to function in
>very cold weather? Currently here it's about -10 wind chill outside and
>about 1 foot of snow on the ground. I've never heard of heaters.  

At least VR uses them. For instance, all switches on CTCed track have
electric heaters.
--
Ott-Vill R______________________
ovr@snakemail.hut.fi
Newsgroups: rec.railroad