HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: STUCS204@UK.AC.BHAM.IBM3090
Subject: Re: Size of the orb??
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:22:19 GMT
Organization: The University of Birmingham, United Kingdom

>I don't have the books here with me, but I seem to remember the
>picture on the front of Pawn of Prophecy was Garion, Belgarath and
>Polgara standing on a rocky ledge, with Garion holding the sword
>above his head. I'm sure the orb was visible on the sword then,
>and it didn't appear to be much bigger that a clenched fist (about
>heart sized, then?). Maybe this wasn't THE sword at all (after all,
>we know little about Garion's heritage in this book), but I can't
>check it out at the series is currently sitting about 100 miles
>away from where I am... Oh! College life!
>--
>rjwalsh@maths.tcd.ie          \ Drain you of your sanity
>Robert Walsh                   \ Face the thing that should not be
>Student Computer Research Group \
>Trinity College, Dublin.         \             - Metallica
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think its called Artistic licence although I really don't want to dwell on th
et too closely.

              stucs204@uk.ac.bham   - Richard

 p.s or perhaps its the ultimate spoiler.....
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Tuesday, 17 Nov 1992 10:13:51 EST
From: The Judge <IO20444@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: About the proposed alt.fan.fantasy.writers...

Well, I just went and read some of the things in rec.arts.sf.written,
and, though I was prejudiced from the outset, I must admit, they do
cover a lot of fantasy works there.  Probably the best thing to do
is ask the regular readers of that group whether they think a new
group is necessary, which I don't think they will.  For instance,
I saw articles about Tolkien and Piers Anthony there, and a huge
list of books which included lots of fantasy books (for more, you'll
have to look there yourself! :)
   So it seems that perhaps we should just take any discussions of
other authors over there.  Or maybe we should try it for a week or
two, and then decide whether we really need a new group.
I thank you for your patience.  If you disagree, feel free to e-mail
or even flame here, if nobody minds...
:) :) :)
---***(((---Daphne Brinkerhoff---)))***---..## I TURNED MY LIFE AROUND,
---***(((---_University of Me.---)))***---..## AND NOW I'M BACK WHERE I
If these weren't my own opinions, why would.## STARTED!!! --ANONYMOUS
I be posting them?(IO20444@maine.maine.edu).## ---***(((&&&)))***---
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: dkf11@cl.cam.ac.uk (D.K. Fellows)
Subject: Re: The Orb and Aldur.
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 13:06:13 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.010604.23751@usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU>, 2120158@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU () writes:
>In article <924818114854@ibm3090.bham.ac.uk> STUCS204@UK.AC.BHAM.IBM3090 writes:
>>It has been suggested by a few users of this net that the orb has sentience. The
>>question that arises is 'Did Aldur,while forming the orb, give it sentience 
>>(addition - was Aldur the origonal Child of Light).Or did the prophecy (the 
>>voice that speaks to Garion on occasions) give the orb sentience. Or it the 
>>orbs' sentience the prophecy itself.
>
>   I agree that the orb does have some independant thought (witness Garion on his
> way to meet Torak, Belgarath "explained" to it why it should make itself 
> "unnoticable", also witness (somewhere in the Mallorean) the orb explaining to
> Garion how to fix the crack that Torak make in the world).
> 
>   However as to how it developed, I would like to say that I think that Aldur
> formed it, or it formed itself. Here are some reasons why:
>       1) If the prophecy formed it, why when the prophecy was destroyed in the
> end, did the orb retain it's intelligence. (Weak reasoning I know.)
> 

The universe formed it sometime before the Accident, which was when the Orb and
the Sardion also split apart.  Both stones then fell to Earth, one in Zamad (the
Sardion) and one in the Vale (the Orb).

There they were polished off. I suspect that Belagarath thought that Aldur was
'breathing life' into the Orb was a misunderstanding, as the Orb was already
alive. 

>       2) If the orb's sentience is the prophecy, then why is the orb described
> as childish (see Belgarath talking to the orb in Bk 4,Belgariad), while the
> prophecy is very intelligent.
> 

The Orb is closely connected with the Prophecy, but the two are still distinct.

Also, the Prophecy became merged into the new single Prophecy after the Choice.
The explanation is fairly clear, and quite a lot of light is thrown on what had
happened to create the sequence of events leading up to the Choice.

> Also to be taken into the arguement is that the prophecy has been around for a
> long time, where the orb appears to be relatively new.
> 

Incorrect. The Stones were One before the Accident.

Donal.

-- 
"Everything that is not nailed down is mine.
 Everything that I can pry loose is not nailed down."
    - Collis P. Huntingdon
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: p9b3@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Dan Fleet)
Subject: alt.fan.eddings flame wars 
Keywords: Moron, Idiot, Arsewipe, This.is.really.stupid 
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:54:07 GMT


Well, I didn't think that I would have to make a kill file for this 
newsgroup, but it seems that with the advent of some frothing lunatic
who seems to enjoy a hot keyboard, I'm gonna have to.

I suggest that we just all ignore this guy, or flame him in Email.
The last thing I want to read is screens of hate mail when I come looking
for discussions on Eddings' works.

(Though if he wants to fly all the way over here, he can give me a 
demonstration of the interesting atanomical contortions he suggested to
me...:-))


All flames are redirected to alt.i.can't.control.myself or
alt.childish.whining.bedwetters

ObEddingsTalk:

So who has read _Domes of Fire_ yet?  I found it to be excellent, and highly
suggest it to everyone.  (So we can talk about it without spoiling it for
everyone).  

---
Dan Fleet is p9b3@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca   University of New Brunswick  
[Mayble?  Where'd you put that asbestos suit?      Fredericton, NB CANADA 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: 2120158@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU ()
Subject: Re: Nope, it didn't show up...
Organization: school of Mathematics UNSW
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:03:24 GMT

In article <BxGL84.4qx@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> reason@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Jason E. Reasoner) writes:
>>Let's see if my .sig shows up here...I've been gone so long from this group
>>that I may have deleted it..
>Nope, it didn't show up...
>But I bet mine does...
>
>-- 
>     ******************************|---------------------------------|
>     *  reason@sage.cc.purdue.edu  |"I will not buy this record, it  |
>     *  aka  Smegma, Reason, Rand  | is scratched."      -John Cleese|
>     ******************************|---------------------------------|


 Well what about mine (sorry, but I just gotta do this...)

Later,
Matthew.

--- number 12 of the 100 things to do to your body when you're all alone ---
From: cupcake@cibbs.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Sorcery and Thought Duplication.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 21:31:47 EST
Reply-To: uunorth!cibbs!cupcake
Organization: DataSoft Consulting (Toronto, Ont. Canada)

STUCS204@UK.AC.BHAM.IBM3090 writes:

>   There is also the case that the incident with Zedar has no relevance to the
> iscussion. If you remember the incident where he threw/hit Durnik and killed 
> m he showed remorse to Pol and when Belgarath said 'so thats what it means' b
> ore breaking the door down and entering the room I get the impression that It
> as with *regret* that Zedar fought Belgarath and he already *knew* that he wa
> t going to win and that he probably expected that Belgarath would do somethin
> particulaly gruesome to him (Belgarath gets *very* angry when it concerns his
> amily) and had probably worked out that perhaps this would be the best way to
> scape Torak's will should Belgarion lose he probably allowed himself to be se
> ed up.
>      I do feel that Belgarath was too cruel on Zedar because without the deat
> of Durnik they wouldn't have been able to reject Torak. I assume that Belgara
>  must have known about this (so that's what it means) and so I feel that his 
> aling up of Zedar was not called for in that context. Perhaps it was more  fo
> the fact that Zedar betrayed Aldur more than anything else.



I think that Zedar got what he deserved, but not really to THAT extent of what
he actually got.  He did deserve some ....agrivation, but that is ...UGH!  I
think that since Zedar tried to fool Torak, that's when he made a mistake,
which he discusses with Polgara, and they both get to the idea that he was
born for this, his reason of WHY he was born in the first place.  (I think it's
a prophesy thing)  Anyway, they were about to talk more about it when there
was a fight between Zedar and Durnik, which you know about...obviously.
Anwyas, I think that Durnik got very jealous when Zedar told Polgara that she
would go to Torak when he called her and he just couldnt' control himself
anymore and got so mad that he just didnt' think and attacked and got himself
killed.  In killing Durnik, that got Belgarath mad enough to just freak out
and loose control of himself and do something horrible to Zedar.  Maybe, the
prophesy that was watching and nudging Garion's group, knew that there was no
place in the "future" if Zedar was to remain...above ground so to speak.    So
zedar was...superfluous and needed to be rid of....do you know what I mean?


Cupcake

#*#*#*  ______________________________________________________________  #*#*#*
                 cupcake@cibbs.UUCP uunorth!cibbs!cupcake
*#*#*#  ______________________________________________________________  *#*#*
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: JDRUM00@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU
Subject: Re: The Lock
Organization: Rice University  
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 06:24:34 GMT

>        Does anyone remember when Polgara was putting a young Garion to bed,
>he reached out his hand (the one with the mark on it) and touched Pol's white
>lock of hair....And it opened a 'window' of thoughts?
>        I've always wondered what this was.  Eddings seems to use this just
>to capture the reader's interest, but then seems to COMPLETELY forget about
>this. Garion doesn't even ask about this later on.
 
That's a very interesting question that's not terribly easy to
answer! Any way you explain it is really just conjecture...my personal
thought is that a telepathic link between two powerful sorcerers in an
quiet, intimate moment is quite easy to open, especially when you
touch their marks together...the two spots on their bodies which
apparently are the foci of their powers. Pol and Garion are very close,
and Pol's love combined with Garion's curiosity...well, it doesn't
seem unusual to me at all for that to happen.
 
WARNING -- Larger topic starting:
 
As for the specific mechanism, where the will came from, who opened
the link etc etc...well, one of the neatest things about Eddings is
the way he doesn't dwell on the picky details of magic. (Oh...sorry.
Sorcery. ;) ) I once tried to explain the Will and the Word system to
h friend unfamiliar with the books; when he started asking for specific
power levels, capacities, mechanisms, and limitations, I just sort of
had to cite specific examples from the book and make extrapolations.
 
Quotations from the books all over the place make it clear that this
system really isn't meant to be well-documented; Beldin and Belgarath
are always having long discussions about sorcery and its rules, and
they've been sorcerers for thousands of years! That's why there ARE
so many little episodes that aren't fully explained -- a certain
air of mystery makes sorcery fascinating. Either that or Eddings
left out explanations to generate newsgroup traffic.... ;)
 
Eddings' sorcery is also very personal stuff...one person can't
duplicate the thought of another, will can be lent to others, and
depleting one's will is fatal. This leaves plenty of room in the
story for sorcery to do just about anything...many things can be
rationalized on the basis of how a certain sorcerer thinks. (Of
course, given a devoted batch of fans, just about ANYTHING can
be rationalized. ;) )
 
=-=-> Jennifer Drummond
      a.k.a. jdrum00@ricevm1.rice.edu
      a.a.k.a. Jedra, PernMUSH
               Jenner, TooMUSH
From: mforget@elfhaven.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Michel Forget)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: The Empire Series by Raymond E. Feist
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 00:36:02 MDT
Reply-To: mforget@elfhaven.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca
Organization: Electric Storm
X-Software: HERMES GUS 1.00 Rev. Jan 16 1992

In <1992Nov15.213806.28382@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, Aik Siong Seow writes:

>Hello
>	I have just finished reading the Daughter of the Empire by Raymond
>E. Feist. I kinda like the plots in the story. Politics in fantasy....
>Is there anyone out there who have read the remainign 2 books, Servant and
>Mistress of the Empire? Are they good? I am contemplating whether to go ahead
>and read the remaining 2 books.....
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>|  Chris Seow  |  Computer & Electrical Engineering, Purdue University |
>| 317-743-4587 |      105 Columbia St #1, West Lafayette IN 47906      |
>------------------------------------------------------------------------

Both of the remaining two books are excellent.  The second book of the series
is slower than the others to get started, and I did not really like it at
first, but it picked up.

-- 
<<  -----------------------------------------  >>
<<    mforget@elfhaven.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca    >>
<<  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  >>
<<               Michel Forget                 >>
<<   The Key:  Spirit over mind over matter.   >>
<<  -----------------------------------------  >>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: 2120158@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU ()
Subject: Re: Why the Orb burns anybody at all?
Organization: school of Engineering UNSW
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 23:57:10 GMT

In article <s1140056.721449845@giaeb> s1140056@giaeb.cc.monash.edu.au (Jeffrey O. (*JEFF*)) writes:
>JDRUM00@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU writes:
>
>>>1) I may be wrong but didn't it say that Garion's family could touch the orb.
>>>  Well, why does the restriction apply to only the members of the family that
>>>  are descentants of (what's his name, the guy that married Pol's sister)?
>>>  Maybe the orb doesn't care if you are a descendant or an ancestor.....
>>>  Remember, Pol and her father were of the line.
>>>
>>>  Of course, Pol wouldn't be in a direct line but close.
>>
>>No, it's not 'Garion's family', per se, who can touch the Orb. It's the
>>line of RIVA (who's the guy who married Beldaran, Polgara's sister).
>>Polgara isn't related to Riva except by marriage; she is (or was) his
>>sister-in-law. This doesn't mean that Belgarath or Polgara are related by
>>blood to the line that can touch the Orb. Riva, just for reference, was
>>the son of Cherek Bear-Shoulders, King of the Alorns...no relation at all
>>to Belgarath or Polgara.
>>
>>Thought I'd clear that up, just for chuckles.
>>
>>=-=-> Jennifer Drummond
>
>  Riva Iron-grip, one of the sons of Cherek Bear-Shoulders, King of the
>  Alorns, married Beldaran, Polgara's sister and Belgarath's daughter.  This
>  effectively makes Riva Belgarath's son-in-law and Polgara's brother-in-law.
>  Belgarath and Polgara ARE related by blood to the line that can touch the Orb.
>  Makes sense, doesn't it?
>
>  Belgarath IS the Rivan King's (or Garion's) great-great-great...-great
>  -grandfather, and Garion is Polgara's great-great-great...-great-nephew.
>  Ce'Nedra is also Polgara's and Belgarath's great-great-...
>
>
>  Am I missing anything?
>  Jeffrey Ong.

I think the thing that you are missing is that the requirements for touching the
orb is to be of the line of the Rivian King and to bear the Mark.
                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  (I know that the mark is a sign of the next king, I'm almost certain it also
covers the orb.)

Later,
Matthew.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: bmargoli@dante.nmsu.edu (MARGOLIS)
Subject: Who can use the orb?
Organization: New Mexico State University, Las Cruces, NM
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:52:22 GMT

Gods can not hold the orb.  I believe that the passage in the Prologue to Pawn
of Prophecy which clarifies this says something to the extent that before
Torak used the orb to crack the world, "it welcomed the touch of man or god" 
but it would not be used in that manner again.  For that reason, only one 
who is without evil intent in his soul may take it up.  Eriond was one of 
these, and so was Riva.  Riva's descendants became a revision to this rule, 
presumably because the orb sensed that in order to aid the prophecy it 
would need to form a bond with the Rivan line.  Gods could touch it (as 
could anyone else) until Torak pissed it off.

Bernie
bmargoli@nmsu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: ins450m@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (T.F. Eccles)
Subject: Re: Book Two of The Tamuli(smart arses)
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 05:01:42 GMT

dkf11@cl.cam.ac.uk (Donal K. Fellows) writes:


>People like you should be shot at dawn.
Yes.

>Stop spreading your useless abuse across the world and at least restrain it to
>Australia.
No. Keep it to yourselves. You're on the same campus - go find each other.


>If you really feel like polluting the net, go and talk to alt.fan.monty.python,
>where they like that sort of thing.
NO. WE DON'T. And I don't appreciate the implications.

Eccles

Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: STUCS204@UK.AC.BHAM.IBM3090
Subject: Re: The Orb and Aldur.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:16:08 GMT
Organization: The University of Birmingham, United Kingdom

>It has been suggested by a few users of this net that the orb has sentience. Th
>e question that arises is 'Did Aldur,while forming the orb, give it sentience (
>addition - was Aldur the origonal Child of Light).Or did the prophecy (the voic
>e that speaks to Garion on occasions) give the orb sentience. Or it the orbs' s
>entience the prophecy itself.
>
>             What does anyone think.
>
>             /    stucs204@uk.ac.bham         \   - aka Richard.
>            /  or stucs204@uk.ac.bham.ibm3090  \
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 =>from the above - stucs204@uk.ac.bham.ibm3090 (Janet Address)
                  - stucs204@ibm3090.bham.ac.uk (Internet Address)
                  - oops
From: REA105@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Touching
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:01:46 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

Sorry, I did not think that I had to explain myself so clearly.  Garion had to
touch the orb when he was pure for the orb to know him.  Otherwise, why such a
big deal about having the new Rivan prices touch it as babies.  All of his Riva
n ancestors touched the orb when they were babies, just in case they became the
 Child of light.  My baby interpretation comes from(as my mind serves me) Ctutc
icks(sp) fight with Belgareth.
From: seow@ecn.purdue.edu (Aik Siong Seow)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: The Empire Series by Raymond E. Feist
Date: 15 Nov 92 21:38:06 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network


-- 
Hello
	I have just finished reading the Daughter of the Empire by Raymond
E. Feist. I kinda like the plots in the story. Politics in fantasy....
Is there anyone out there who have read the remainign 2 books, Servant and
Mistress of the Empire? Are they good? I am contemplating whether to go ahead
and read the remaining 2 books.....


------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Chris Seow  |  Computer & Electrical Engineering, Purdue University |
| 317-743-4587 |      105 Columbia St #1, West Lafayette IN 47906      |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: st1da@rosie.uh.edu (Jeff Phillips)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Sorcery
Date: 20 Nov 1992 12:32 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rosie.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <louis.721973288@manning>, louis@cs.UAlberta.CA 
(Wang Louis Tsz-min) writes...


>One last thing about Zedar's demise, I think that it was too easy.
>Considering how much power was taken out of Belgarath during his
>fight with Ctuchik, Belgarath should not have been able to handle
>Zedar so easily.  Zedar is a sorcerer with thousands of years of
>training.  Even is he was shocked, his reflexes alone should have
>allowed him to defend himself better against Belgarath.

You might be forgetting that Belgarath is THE most powerful sorcerer in the
world that ever was, since he is also the first disciple of Aldur and "The
Eternal Man" and other such gaudy titles and mentioned in many prophecies.
Also, he was enraged to the point of blind fury (if you will remember, at 
first, the fight was only physical because rage overcame him) and when 
controlled, this emotion can make anyone (even in the real world) 
very powerful.  

Annother though:  Zedar was depressed since he did something he didn't want to
do, so he put up less of a fight.  Maybe he was guilty and though he deserved
to be killed.  (he didn't know what his punishment would be, however.)

Jeff Phillips
From: pdochert@gssec.bt.co.uk (Peter Docherty)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: The Empire Series by Raymond E. Feist
Date: 17 Nov 92 12:12:30 GMT
Organization: BT

Yes - I agree the series is very good and worth buying.

Peter
-- 
       --    O   Peter Docherty				Email:	pdochert@gssec.bt.co.uk
     ---   </\_  BT, Glasgow Engineering Centre		Phone:	+44 41 220 3041
   ----  -\/\    West TEC
      ---   /_   24 Highburgh Road, Glasgow, UK, G12 9ND

If six people tell you you're sick, lie down .....
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: p9b3@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Dan Fleet)
Subject: Re: The Orb and Aldur.
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:41:07 GMT

In article <924818114854@ibm3090.bham.ac.uk> STUCS204@UK.AC.BHAM.IBM3090 writes:
>It has been suggested by a few users of this net that the orb has sentience. Th
>e question that arises is 'Did Aldur,while forming the orb, give it sentience (
>addition - was Aldur the origonal Child of Light).Or did the prophecy (the voic
>e that speaks to Garion on occasions) give the orb sentience. Or it the orbs' s
>entience the prophecy itself.

IMHO, the Orb/Sarion have been sentient since their creation at the beginning
of time.  They were originally one rock, and were split during the accident
that divided the universe.  

The Orb is a separate intelligence from the prophesy, but most likely responds
to anything the prohpesy asks of it. 

>             /    stucs204@uk.ac.bham         \   - aka Richard.
>            /  or stucs204@uk.ac.bham.ibm3090  \

Dan Fleet is p9b3@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca    University of New Brunswick
flamecatch <NIL: >NIL:                       Fredericton, NB, CANADA