HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: GO -levels (kyu to dan)
Keywords: GO -levels, HELP
Date: 6 Apr 92 12:51:32 GMT
Distribution: rec.games.go
Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany

In article <1992Apr3.091337.21248@cc.tut.fi>, korkki@cc.tut.fi (Korhonen Mika) writes:
>I am intresdet in these GO -levels (kyu to dan). Can anyone tell me about
>these levels. What are these levels and how are they defined?
>
>How can I define my own GO -levels?

Nobody seems to answer, so I'll do it.
Is this something for the FAQ list?

Kyu means pupil, dan is master; but there is no qualitative
difference.  The ranks are tantamount to positive and negative
numbers, but there is no zero.

The weakest dan is 1 dan (shodan), then 2 dan etc. up to 7 dan
(for amateurs).
1 kyu is the strongest kyu, and the list goes down to around
20-30 kyu (beginners).
When you play with handicap, the number of handicap stones should
be the level difference (on a 19x19 board).  That is, a 3 kyu
gives a 10 kyu seven stones, and a 1 dan gives a 2 kyu two stones.
(because there is no zero, a 1 dan is a sort of 0 kyu, 2 dan
is -1 kyu etc.)
Normally, the handicap is not higher than 9, though.

Then there are professional dan rankings, which go up to 9 dan.

You can determine your strength only by playing against others
with known strength, for example at the go server.  There are
books like "Test Your Rating", but those tests are very unreliable.

-- 
-Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)-----
The question of whether the electron is a wave or a particle
has a clear and definite answer:  No.
Newsgroups: rec.games.go,rec.games.chess,alt.suicide.holiday,alt.romance
From: polsak@nuscc.nus.sg (Suzaina Abdul Kadir (Ms))
Subject: Re: NIGHTMARE AT 10 DOWNING ST!!!
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 08:18:05 GMT




OH NO ! SAY IT ISN'T SO  !!!

PLEASE......


- Suzaina

P.S Why is this here ?
From: nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith)
Subject: Re: Life or death?
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 14:35:13 GMT

In article <Mdu5BCS00VtjRDt3wO@andrew.cmu.edu> wjh+@andrew.cmu.edu (Fred Hansen) writes:
>
8 . . . . . . . .
7 . . . . . . . .
6 # # . . . . . .
5 O O # . . . . .
4 . O O # . . . .
3 O # O O # . . .
2 O # O O # . . .
1 . # . O # . . .
  A B C D E F G H
>Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.go: 12-Apr-92 Re: Life or death? The
>Chenster@informatics (905)
>
>> This is a situation called "seki," where the rule is neither side can
>> claim captured stones or territory (including that one white "eye" on
>> the left.)
>
>As I read the AGA rules, white IS entitled to count one point for A4.
>
>Fred Hansen

we should let stig tell us how the outside black group is.  in this case
white plays at D5, double atari, and breaks out anyway....

i assume that the black wall is more solid than it appears in his post, or
he wouldnt have sent this problem.

- nate, ~13k
From: palmerp@math.orst.edu (Paul A Palmer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: net game
Date: 7 Apr 92 05:49:37 GMT
Reply-To: palmerp@math.orst.edu
Organization: Dept. of Math, Oregon State University


What ever happened to the net game? My last post on it is dated 9 Feb. and is
through move 89. Have I missed a later post?

--
Paul Palmer
Department of Mathematics     	E-mail: palmerp@math.orst.edu
Kidder Hall 368
Oregon State University, Corvallis, Oregon 97331-4605

	 "It's moving so fast, it's standing still." - William Gibson
From: d9jesper@dtek.chalmers.se (Jesper Blommaskog)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Improving One's Game
Date: 9 Apr 92 16:43:35 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg Sweden

cust_ts@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Tero Sand) writes:

>I maintain that playing a lot, and (perhaps even more important)
>playing many different opponents, is the best way to improve 
>_at_the_20-kyu_ level.

The fastest way to get beyond the 20k-level is to study the book
"Graded Go Problems for Beginners vol 2 25-20 kyu". Most people who
have worked through this book properly must be better than 20k. After
that, vol 3 of the same series would perhaps bring you to 14-15 kyu or
so. Most problems are of the type "capture stones" or "kill group"
which are the most profitable problems to study in the beginning. 

It's fun to capture stones and kill groups. Much funnier than
surrounding territory. 

Believe it or not, but I play very defensively. That's probably
because I played my first 50 games or so against a 3-6 stones better
opponent (made me meek but calm).

See you at the tournament in Gothenburg 1-3 of May.

-Jesper, 3k
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: jfbuss@maytag.waterloo.edu (Jonathan Buss)
Subject: Re: Improving One's Game
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 15:29:18 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.114454.1719@klaava.Helsinki.FI> cust_ts@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Tero Sand) writes:
>In article <MOHRI.92Apr8042445@amber.math.keio.ac.jp> mohri@math.keio.ac.jp (Nobuyuki &) writes:
>>
>>In article <1992Mar30.163240.8642@sunb10.cs.uiuc.edu>
>>droberts@sunc5.cs.uiuc.edu (Donald B Roberts) writes:
>>
>>>I was wondering what the best way is to improve my game. I know that playing
>>>many, many games is important, but what other methods should I employ? When
>>>should I study joseki? Etc.
>>
>>Playing many games isn't so important.
>>You'd better study and appreciate good professional games.
>>
>
>That's a load of you-know-what. Of course, it depends on the level you
>are, but I understood the original poster was about 20 kyu. You don't
>have much to appreciate prof. games with.
>Play a lot.

Playing many games isn't all-important; it can even be hazardous to
your ability.  Studying one professional game will teach you more than
playing several games of your own.

One difficulty, of course, is that properly explained professional
games can be difficult to find anywhere near Indiana.  [Insert ad for
Go World here.]  The usual compromise is to find any opponent to take
the black stones against.  But it is definitely a compromise.  The
usual opponent will allow many mistakes to pass unpunished, and defeat
you with mistakes that you don't understand.

The second difficulty is that it's more fun to play than to learn.
Of course, some people find playing more fun if they've learned....

Jonathan Buss
From: jopollack@vaxsar.vassar.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: About go
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:02:52 +1000
Organization: Vassar College

What are the rules of go?  I'm told Othello is modelled on it; Othello happens
to be one of my all-time faves.  Anyone?

--Josh
From: hale@xcf.Berkeley.EDU (Greg Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Jujo Jiang 9 dan/Go Camp
Date: 16 Apr 1992 23:59:03 GMT
Organization: UC Berkeley Experimental Computing Facility (XCF)
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: xcf.berkeley.edu



	You can Play a Go tournament and study with Jujo Jiang professional
	9 dan and other Chinese professionals while vactioning in the clear
	mountain air of a redwood forest, three hours north of
	San Francisco, at our week long training camp.  This is a beautiful
	area near the Mendocino coast.  This is a week long event with a
	shuttle buf from San Francisco July 18-25.  Facilities include
	tent-cabins with wood floors, gourmet meals and a redwood lodge.
	Call Yari Leski for more information  415 563-4617

	About Jujo Jiang 9 dan

	Jujo came to San Francisco in August, 1990.  He is renowned for his
	excellent results against the Japanese in the China/Japan 
	Super-Go tournaments.  HIs tournament results include wins against
	Kato and Takemiya.  He cane in 5th out of 30 in the last Ying World
	Championship and will play again the end of April.  Jujo was the
	main Go commentator for Chinese television and is one of the few
	9 dan teachers in the world.  His English is good and his style is
	clear and humorous.  Jujo currently teaches privately and in three
	clubs around the San Francisco Bay Area.  His in-deapth analytical
	style teaches students how to think about Go positions in the
	way professionals do.

	The idea for this camp was inspired by the popular summer
	"Go Stage" in France.  These workshops are training intensive
	that precede the European Go Congress every year.
From: bate@silver.cs.umanitoba.ca (John Bate)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: GoServant 0.12
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:04:09 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada

GoServant 0.12 available
------------------------

Version 0.12 marks the last stone played, and has been updated to
keep pace with changes in the server's "observe" command. Version 0.12
will be sent to those who received 0.1 automatically. Those who have
used it, or tried to, please inform me of your sucess (or failure).

GoServant is a Macintosh application which provides a convenient user
interface for the Internet Go Server. You can play games on a graphical
board, making your moves by simply clicking on the desired points. You
can also observe up to 4 games, also on graphical go boards in
separate windows. A terminal window is also provided for messages, etc.
It supports the Communications Toolbox for connecting to the Internet, or
it will use the serial interfaces directly. You can get a copy by sending
a brief request to: bate@cs.umanitoba.ca (John Bate). Newer versions will
be emailed to all registered users as they become available.

-----------------------------------+-----------------------------
Dr. John A. Bate    (2 kyu)        | Phone: (204) 474-6791
Department of Computer Science     | FAX: (204) 269-9178
University of Manitoba             |
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3T 2N2 | email: bate@cs.umanitoba.ca
-----------------------------------+-----------------------------
From: S.Schwartz@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Go for X windows
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:19:15 GMT


Does anyone know how can I get a "go" game running under X windows?

Thanks,
Sara
From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Problem
Date: 9 Apr 92 16:17:51 GMT
Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany

In article <1992Apr7.162921.2467@descartes.waterloo.edu>, tdprime@laplace.waterloo.edu (Timothy D. Prime) writes:
>
>>Organization: IRISA, Rennes (Fr)
>>Lines: 15
>>
>>How about this one ?
>>
>>. O . . . . . . .
>>O O . . . . . . .
>>. . # # . . . . .
>>. . # # . . . . .
>>. . . . . . . . .
>>. . . . . . . . .
>>. . . . . . . . .
>>. . . . . . . . .
>>. . . . . . . . .
>>
>>Black to kill
>>
>>J-Yves.
>>
>>
>
>Isn't the correct move "PASS"?

No, White can play the monkey-jump at 1.

 . O . . . . . . .
 O O . . 1 . . . .
 . . # # . . . . .
 . . # # . . . . .
 . . . . . . . . .
 . . . . . . . . .
 . . . . . . . . .
 . . . . . . . . .
 . . . . . . . . .

-- 
-Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)-----
The question of whether the electron is a wave or a particle
has a clear and definite answer:  No.
From: tcasey@lacerta.unm.edu (Dionysus)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: IGS I would like opinions from everyone.  Yes everyone.
Summary: Just how international should the server be?
Keywords: IGS, Internet Go Server, International
Date: 16 Apr 92 09:39:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.zyzjt_h
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque


I would like to know how much people would like me to do an internationally
supported server.  All this means to me is having a native language in stats,
and getting messages in that language.

So what do you all think?

tim
From: xiang@chaos.utexas.edu (Xiang-Ming Liu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Problem
Date: 10 Apr 92 20:59:34 GMT
Reply-To: xiang@chaos.UUCP (Xiang-Ming Liu)
Organization: University of Texas at Austin, Center for Nonlinear Dynamics

In article <1992Apr7.124253.21465@irisa.fr> giordano@irisa.fr (Jean-Yves Giordano) writes:
>How about this one ?
>
>. O . . . . . . .
>O O . . . . . . .
>. . # # . . . . .
>. . # # . . . . .
>. . . . . . . . .
>. . . . . . . . .
>. . . . . . . . .
>. . . . . . . . .
>. . . . . . . . .
>
>Black to kill
>
>J-Yves.

. O . . . . . . .	. O . . . . . . .
O O . . . . . . .	O O . . . . . . .
. a # # . . . . .	. . # # . . . . .
. b # # . . . . .	4 3 # # . . . . .
. 2 . . 1 . . . .	. 2 . . 1 . . . .
. 3 . . . . . . .	. 5 . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . .	. 6 . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . .	. . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . .	. . . . . . . . .

    Fig.1			Fig.2

black at 1 kills white.
best white can do is 2 on either side.

black at 3 is important. if black play 3 and exchange with white
4,as in Fig.2, the final result will be a ko.
By playing at 3 in Fig.1, black give himself a choice at 'a'
or 'b' later, depend on white's response.

Xiangming Liu
(2-dan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: gdridle@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Guy D. Ridley)
Subject: Current state of go software for PC or Atari ST?
Organization: Pacific * Bell
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 15:28:09 GMT


Is there anything that's substantially better than Nemesis?   Is a 10-12kyu
program still far in the future?   I'm mainly interested in what I can
buy for home.
 
(P.S. to Terry G: I lost your address, please email it to me.)
 
 
Guy Ridley
pacbell!pbhya!gdridle
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: tdprime@laplace.waterloo.edu (Timothy D. Prime)
Subject: Re: Problem
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:29:21 GMT


> Organization: IRISA, Rennes (Fr)
> Lines: 15
> 
> How about this one ?
> 
> . O . . . . . . .
> O O . . . . . . .
> . . # # . . . . .
> . . # # . . . . .
> . . . . . . . . .
> . . . . . . . . .
> . . . . . . . . .
> . . . . . . . . .
> . . . . . . . . .
> 
> Black to kill
> 
> J-Yves.
> 
> 

Isn't the correct move "PASS"?

suppose white were to 'fight'.

 . O . 2 . . . . .
 O O 1 3 4 . . . .
 7 6 # # . . . . .
 . 5 # # . . . . .
 . 8 . . . . . . .
 . . . . . . . . .
 . . . . . . . . .
 . . . . . . . . .
 . . . . . . . . .

	Timothy D. Prime	(5 kyu)
From: cust_ts@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Tero Sand)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Improving One's Game
Date: 9 Apr 92 09:05:25 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <1992Apr8.152918.8925@watdragon.waterloo.edu> jfbuss@maytag.waterloo.edu (Jonathan Buss) writes:
>Playing many games isn't all-important; it can even be hazardous to
>your ability.  Studying one professional game will teach you more than
>playing several games of your own.
>

I maintain that playing a lot, and (perhaps even more important)
playing many different opponents, is the best way to improve 
_at_the_20-kyu_ level.

-- 
-Tero Sand
  EMail: cust_ts@cc.helsinki.fi     Snail mail: Auroran Sairaala os. 8
  (if that doesn't work, try                    Nordenskioldinkatu 20
   cust_ts@kruuna.helsinki.fi)                  00250 Helsinki 25, Finland
From: hansm@cs.kun.nl (Hans Mulder)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Go Timing
Date: 10 Apr 92 23:40:43 GMT
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands

In <1992Apr10.184430.29524@ll.mit.edu> nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith) writes:

>i like the idea of 2 timers.  in our croquet league each player is given
>40 seconds to shoot, after which their total allotted team time (160 secs)
>starts to dwindle.  then if they use up all their time, they at least have
>40 seconds to shoot.  in go you could do the same, setting the 2 parameters,
>40 seconds and 160 seconds to something more appropriate for go.  the clock
>to do it was designed by our electronics wizards from radio-shack parts, but
>we still havent built it.  (sigh)  someday maybe.

"Fast games" by Japanese pros work like that, setting the parameters to
30 and 1200 seconds respectively.

>the clock to do it was designed by our electronics wizards from radio-shack
>parts, but we still havent built it.

Some people at the University of Twente built 20 copies of an electronic
clock that can do every known way of time keeping for chess, go and then some.

The funniest mode of that clock is called "sand-clock mode": you start with,
say, 60 seconds per player.  If it's your move, your clock counts down and
your opponent's clock counts up!  Pressing your clock reverses both.  When
your clock has counted down to zero, it beeps and you've lost on time.
If on average you use as little as second longer per move than your opponent,
you'll be in serious time trouble by move 110.

Too bad those clocks are not readily available.

--
Hans Mulder		hansm@cs.kun.nl			1 kyu
Xref: sparky rec.games.go:918 soc.culture.japan:3379
From: lemonies@ingrid.laas.fr (Camille Le Monies de Sagazan,28B,6242)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go,soc.culture.japan
Subject: Rules of Japanese Mahjongg
Keywords: mahjongg
Date: 6 Apr 92 10:36:58 GMT
Reply-To: lemonies@ingrid.laas.fr
Followup-To: rec.games.go
Organization: LAAS-CNRS, Toulouse (France)


I have had the opportunity to play Japanese Mahjongg and the people I
was playing with didn't have a full set of the rules. Could someone
send me a description of them, especially the roles, or advise me a
book? If it could be in French, I would be at the most pleased.

		--Camille le Monies de Sagazan--
From: olounela@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Olli Lounela)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Improving One's Game
Date: 9 Apr 92 16:52:08 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <1992Apr8.152918.8925@watdragon.waterloo.edu> jfbuss@maytag.waterloo.edu (Jonathan Buss) writes:
>Playing many games isn't all-important; it can even be hazardous to
>your ability.  Studying one professional game will teach you more than
>playing several games of your own.

I beg to differ.  While the advantages of studying pro games are *never*
to be underestimated, very weak players have difficulty understanding
them and learning from them.  This is how I remember them from the time
I was below, say, 7 kyu. 

This really does not mean I would be underestimating.  Nowadays the only
way I do any studying of the subject (go, that is), is to pick up a book
of pro games.  There are several that are in english but only one of
them is really indispensable: Invincible - the games of Shusaku.  I also
call it "the red book of a go player".  Naturally, I also play through
games from Kido Yearbooks. 

>One difficulty, of course, is that properly explained professional
>games can be difficult to find anywhere near Indiana.  [Insert ad for
>Go World here.]  

Well, I think it should be an ad for Ishi Press (they publish Go World
and lots of books in English :-)

>The usual compromise is to find any opponent to take
>the black stones against.  But it is definitely a compromise.  The
>usual opponent will allow many mistakes to pass unpunished, and defeat
>you with mistakes that you don't understand.

Yet again I disagree.  Playing with any opponent stronger than yourself
should be advantageous.  Even if the opponent does mistaeks, he still
*is* better at playing. 

>The second difficulty is that it's more fun to play than to learn.
>Of course, some people find playing more fun if they've learned....

Now, this sounds more like it.  I competely agree that playing should
*not* be the sole way of learning the game.  However, I really doubt the
pro games are very useful to the weak player (around 20 kyu as Tero put
it). 

	Olli Lounela, 3 dan

PS. Yet again (it's been about a month, or maybe two) I find that just
	about nobody writes with their rank included. I consider this
	both unpolite and unconsiderate. I think it is almost as bad
	as writing without your own name (bogus names/uids are not
	unheard of). 
-- 
E-mail: olounela@cc.helsinki.fi           ! .sig still under construction.
Blame me only for any opinions expressed. !  Never you mind, I don't either.
From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Beginner seeks introductory games
Date: 8 Apr 92 12:25:21 GMT
Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany

In article <dove.702694157@elaine9.Stanford.EDU>, dove@elaine9.Stanford.EDU (Dav Somebody) writes:
>Hi all,
>
>I am a brand new beginner and I am looking for a few games to help
>improve (ie start) my game.  I have a lot of questions and would
>really like to learn how to play this game a little better.  For
>example, how do you know when a game is over?  How do you know when a
>position is secure and you shouldn't attack it?  

Games you can get at the Internet Go Server.
Type 
  telnet lacerta.unm.edu 6969
or
  telnet 129.29.14.70 6969
and you are in an environment
where you have other go players to play and talk with.

Finding out when the game is over means knowing when nothing
profitable can be done anymore, so you can find that by looking
for profitable moves.  That means you have to read out
positions, that is, thinking about possible sequences of moves
and counting territory differences.  That requires a bit of
training.

Training is also necessary to know when a position is secure.
Necessary, but not sufficing.  It even happens to relatively
strong players that they think a position is secure which is not.

-- 
-Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)-----
The question of whether the electron is a wave or a particle
has a clear and definite answer:  No.
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: haider@zwei.F3SERVER (Christian Haider, F3.KI 2668)
Subject: Re: Japanese tournament results.
Reply-To: haider@gmdzi.gmd.de
Organization: GMD, Sankt Augustin, Germany
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 08:35:52 GMT


If you are planning to compile a little database with these infos, please post 
it to the group. At least I would be interested in it.

Christian



Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
From: dove@elaine9.Stanford.EDU (Dav Somebody)
Subject: Beginner seeks introductory games
Organization: DSG, Stanford University
Date:  8 Apr 92 00:49:17 GMT

Hi all,

I am a brand new beginner and I am looking for a few games to help
improve (ie start) my game.  I have a lot of questions and would
really like to learn how to play this game a little better.  For
example, how do you know when a game is over?  How do you know when a
position is secure and you shouldn't attack it?  

Any help appreciated.

dav
From: Kenneth.E.Harker@dartmouth.edu (Kenneth E. Harker)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Long Distance companies that sell at company costs....
Date: 7 Apr 92 01:57:30 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

In article <1992Apr5.221410.8681@news2.cis.umn.edu>
peschko@seasnake.micro.umn.edu (Edward Peschko) writes:

> I have heard various rumours that there are some companies that will sell you 
> long distance phone service at WAREHOUSE rates.... This would come in VERY handy
> because I have been wanting to play Go long-distance for a long time now, and 
> have not have the means by which to do so...
> 
> Are these rumors true?!?! And if so, could someone tell me where I could 
> sign up?!!!!
> 
> Thanks a lot
> 
> Ed

     Think about US Sprint's PC Pursuit service.  In major cities, you
can connect to a node in that city, and the company puts you through at
like $3 an hour.  I don't use it because I live in the middle of
nowhere, and it would cost more than $3 an hour to get to the service,
but if you live in a large city, it might be worth looking into.  For
more info, call them at 1-800-736-1130.  Make sure to ask about PC
Pursuit.

=======================================================================
          Ken Harker             "And there's bound to be rough waters
Official Chimney Sweep of the     And I know I'll take some falls
  Romantic Fire Association       But with the good Lord as my captain
Kenneth.E.Harker@Dartmouth.Edu    I can make it through them all..."
       Vote GOP in 1992!                   -Victoria Shaw, Garth Brooks
=======================================================================