HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: miballar@leland.Stanford.EDU (Michael Ballard)
Subject: Re: Goddam Commies n Capitalist Pigs
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 16:42:49 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.081521.3196@extropia.wimsey.bc.ca> miron@extropia.wimsey.bc.ca (Miron Cuperman) writes:
>cdwilde@babbage.waterloo.edu (Chris Wilde) writes:
>
>>The alternate side of the coin is the threatening of the Capitalist system
>>in the USA.
>
>The USA does not have capitalism, it has a mixed economy.  I would put
>it approximately at the middle of the spectrum.  (The extremes being
>Anarcho-capitalism and Communism.  More extreme forms of Communism
>will be possible in the future than we saw in the USSR.)
>-- 
>	Miron Cuperman <miron@extropia.wimsey.bc.ca>	(NeXTmail ok)
>	AMIX: MCuperman
>
>ImmortalCyberComputingLaissezfaire

As far as ownership of the U.S.A.'s productive apparatus goes,
a capitalist system exists here.  Almost all the capital in 
the U.S.A. is owned either outrightly or through stocks,
bonds or bank loans, privately.  
Even in Sweden, 90% of the economy is privately owned.
In the USSR, 100% of the economy was state owned; but because the
state was not democratically controlled and because labor was still traded like a 
commodity--there was still a wages system--it was not a 
communist system of production or ownership i.e. stalinism is/was not
communism (even the stalinists themselves never claimed it was a 
communist system)
Newsgroups: alt.society.revolution,rec.music.gdead,alt.drugs,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton
From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson)
Subject: Justice Dept. Appropriations for 1992-93
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:45:14 GMT

The following is taken under the Fair Use Act from clari.news.law:

"Noting the demands created by the increase in crime, more drug use, and the
need for more prison space, [Senator] Rudman said that for fiscal 1981, the
appropriation for the Justice Dept in 1981 was $2.45 billion, and has
increased 400% to the proposed $9.8 billion.

'If that doesnt tell you something about our country, nothing does,' Rudman
said, adding that, depsite the money, 'NONE OF THESE THINGS SO FAR HAVE 
HELPED.'" (emphasis added by me)

Well, there you have it. Why do they keep pouring money down the sink
called the War on Drugs?? Here is a Republican senator, admitting that
no amount of money can stop drug use, and yet they still do it. WHY? Are
they really just fronts for cocaine cartels??

ODC: when i lived in TKE, one of the houses that got busted by the Justice
Dept. in spring 1991, some unscrupulous cop stole the ticket i had to
the April Fools show. Another friend of mine had his tickets confiscated
because they were in an envelope with money amounts on it.
From: osiris@athena.mit.edu
Newsgroups: alt.society.revolution
Subject: re: alan freedman
Date: 22 Jul 92 15:47:11 GMT
Distribution: alt.society.revolution
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

ttj@doe.carleton.ca (Tomas Janacek) writes:
> Anyone, who commits a crime is a criminal regardless of the motivation.
> (That includes Mr. Mandela, too).

what about people who dodged the draft, or openly burned their draft
cards?  When they were thrown in jail were they political prisoners or
criminals.  I would consider them political prisoners because they
were put in jail for following their ideas and beliefs.

Phuck authority in '92
-marcel
--
--+  I like people better when I an not around them.
--+  I am, therefore I am a target.		osiris@athena.mit.edu
--+  All opinions are shared by all people and my employer (I wish)
--+  All warranties, express, implied, or otherwise are void and NULL
Newsgroups: alt.society.revolution
From: galt%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Greg Alt)
Subject: Re: Futility and Flame
Date: 23 Jul 92 02:43:51 MDT
Followup-To: alt.society.revolution 
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Distribution: world 

In article <1992Jul23.024714.10695@nntp.uoregon.edu> dcutter@oregon.uoregon.edu (dann cutter) writes:
>I am interested in why America is such a bad or tyranical place? I have
>seen politics as close as many could ever hope to get, and just see a
>bucnch of people no more burgious(sp?) than the next people, but just
>lacking any logical sense. Basically from where I see it; the world will
>suck for quite a while in most ways, and until our present stagnation is
>eased by the conquest of space, see little moral point in not just
>supporting the America, cause though misused as all good ideas are; I don't
>see anybody coming up with anything better. Query: isn't America's
>Government, its FBI, it everything made up of us all? comments... dann

Generally, when a government only mistreats parts of a society and not the
whole society, the people that are left alone don't see any problems.
If you happen to buy a plane ticket with cash and have the police confiscate
all of your money, you would feel differently.  If you sat down one weekend
to enjoy your favorite intoxicant and had the police send you to prison for
several years, you would feel differently.  If the police decided that they
since evil criminals have no rights they could just bust down their door and
shoot them, and they just happened to get your house by mistake, you would
feel differently.  And then there is the fact that police officers can
beat up any long-hair, black or homeless person they feel like and get away
with it (even when it is videotaped, which it usually isn't).  Maybe you
are one of the lucky ones that will never have any of this happen to you
in your lifetime.  Maybe you do everything the government wants you to do
to avoid being hassled, but give up your humanity in the process.
 
About coming up with a better system.  I know of one that is better--the
exact same thing that we have without police being able to seize money or
property without evidence.  It wouldn't be fundamentally better, but it
would definitely be a better system.  How about if we add to that new 
hiring procedures for police officers that specifically weed out racists
and sadists?  And how about if we abolish the selective service and ban the
draft forever.  All of these would make it better.  I went to the Utah 
State democratic convention, and even the most liberal candidates were too
conservative to even think about these issues.
-
sig?
-
From: jbs@korova (jacques)
Newsgroups: alt.society.revolution
Subject: Goddam Commies n Capitalist Pigs
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 23:03:15 CDT
Organization: VHF void tube of the mind

Does it help to define capitalism, communism, socialism, etc., as 
activities or types of behavior we take up as the situation demands? It 
seems that you otherwise risk making the above into idols to be slavishly 
worshipped and sacrificed (heretics) to. Evolution seems to have favored 
us for competing and sharing by turns.

--
              VHF void tube of the mind (713) 492-2783
        "where you can find the Zeta Greys SAFEWAYING themselves
                into the WONDERBREAD *heart* of America!"
Newsgroups: alt.society.revolution
From: gak@wrs.com (Richard Stueven)
Subject: Re: Ruling Class
Reply-To: gak@wrs.com
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 21:05:21 GMT

In article 711748611@vincent1.iastate.edu, sourada@iastate.edu (Steven D Ourada) writes:
>Amount of money owned (or even stocks, bonds, land, etc.) is not the
>ultimate measure of the value of a person. It's not even close.

You're talking about the difference between "value" and "worth".  The
original article referred to the "net worth" of those households.  (Sad
but true that there is a difference in the first place.)

>And money doesn't even make you a ruler.

Sure it does.  Them that has, gets.

>Ask me how Iowa State University is censoring my Usenet access!

OK...How is ISU censoring your Usenet access?

---
gak
107/H/3&4

Newsgroups: alt.society.revolution
From: miron@extropia.wimsey.bc.ca (Miron Cuperman)
Subject: Re: Goddam Commies n Capitalist Pigs
Organization: Immortal Freedom's Deck
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 08:15:21 GMT

cdwilde@babbage.waterloo.edu (Chris Wilde) writes:

>The alternate side of the coin is the threatening of the Capitalist system
>in the USA.

The USA does not have capitalism, it has a mixed economy.  I would put
it approximately at the middle of the spectrum.  (The extremes being
Anarcho-capitalism and Communism.  More extreme forms of Communism
will be possible in the future than we saw in the USSR.)
-- 
	Miron Cuperman <miron@extropia.wimsey.bc.ca>	(NeXTmail ok)
	AMIX: MCuperman

ImmortalCyberComputingLaissezfaire
From: ykcheu@sol.ctr.columbia.ed (YIHNSIANG KASAMA CHEU)
Newsgroups: alt.society.revolution
Subject: Re:  aforum
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:37:12 GMT
Reply-To: ykcheu@sol.ctr.columbia.ed (YIHNSIANG KASAMA CHEU)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Originator: ykcheu@c00405-346dan.eos.ncsu.edu


Where in the world do you get the time to write all this stuff?

Don't you have a job or something?
Newsgroups: alt.society.revolution
From: miballar@leland.Stanford.EDU (Michael Ballard)
Subject: Ruling Class
Summary: Top 1% of the U.S. Population
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 17:25:16 GMT

"The wealth of a household, or net worth, is what it owns (including stocks
and bonds, housing and other real estate, checking and savings accounts,
and so forth) minus what it owes in debt (including mortgage loans, credit
card balances and business loans)."

"By 1989, the top 1 percent (834,000 households with about $5.7 trillion
of net worth) was worth more than the bottom 90 percent of Americans
(84 million households, with about $4.8 trillion in net worth)."

Information printed in the April 21, 1992 issue of the "New York Times"
on page one as culled from the "Federal Reserve's triennial Survey of
Consumer Finances".
Newsgroups: alt.society.revolution
From: jcook@space.mit.edu (Jim Cook)
Subject: Re: Futility and Flame
Reply-To: jcook@space.mit.edu (Jim Cook)
Organization: MIT Center for Space Research
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:41:47 GMT


In article <1992Jul23.024714.10695@nntp.uoregon.edu>, dcutter@oregon.uoregon.edu (dann cutter) writes:
> Okay, if you intend to flame for this, basically don't bother; I'm cynical
> enough to be ammused but not very interested.
> 
> 	I am a young physicist looking at the world from a very naive standpoint.
> I am interested in why America is such a bad or tyranical place? I have
> seen politics as close as many could ever hope to get, and just see a
> bucnch of people no more burgious(sp?) than the next people, but just
> lacking any logical sense. Basically from where I see it; the world will
> suck for quite a while in most ways, and until our present stagnation is
> eased by the conquest of space, see little moral point in not just
> supporting the America, cause though misused as all good ideas are; I don't
> see anybody coming up with anything better. Query: isn't America's
> Government, its FBI, it everything made up of us all? comments... dann


  Yo Dann, dude.

   I helped Paul Tsongus get on th Lowell City Council, County Commissioner and 
  missed helping on his Congressional campaign.  So politics I know also.

   I liken America to a runaway horse; Congressmen bouncing checks, special
   interest groups pulling thier strings, abortions killing off our future
   hopefuls with them condoning it, the Federal Resereve Board depleating our
   money supply, privite banks serving thier own self intrest and running
   the Federal Resereve Board, billions of dollars going to foriegn countries
   in special loans and the American people getting the shaft.  The rider(us)
   has no control over that horse because the reins are held to loosely. This
   country belongs to you and me and we had better take it back by taking 
   names and kicking but or give it up forever. If we can not take it back
   through the system then we have to remain armed to the teeth like our
   forefathers knew that we would have to, just to protect us from them taking
   it all.  For the last 20 years they have been trying everything they can
   to get our guns away from us to try and do just that.  It is time for us
   to remind our leaders, FBI, CIA, Treasury Dept., Internal Revenue and the
   rest of our government that they work for the people, of the people and by
   the people.
   
   Reply to jcook@space.mit.edu 
> 
> ___________________________________________________| Stellar Enterprises	 
>      	       	
> "I know that one is left. And that once you        | private space explo...
> figure out that, then the other hard is your right.| 	 Pres: dann Cutter
> Then basically all you have to do is make a choice.|"because Space IS the 
> But the question is, how do you figure out that    |   Final Frontier!"
> first part." dann Cutter
> dcutter@oregon.uoregon.edu|
Newsgroups: alt.society.revolution
From: ttj@doe.carleton.ca (Tomas Janacek)
Subject: Alan Freedman
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 03:28:49 GMT

Re ..political prisoner...

I am sorry but I find it unacceptable to call Mr.Freedman a political prisoner.
Only the person that is being arrested because of his/her IDEAS and beliefs
may be called a political prisoner.

Anyone, who commits a crime is a criminal regardless of the motivation.
(That includes Mr. Mandela, too).

It is simply because no gov't ever may criminalize ideas (as happened many
times). And by the same token - any violent crime is unjustifiable by any
idea (again very commonplace).


		Bye
                                     Thomas Janacek
From: philip@vogon.cetia.fr (Philip Peake)
Newsgroups: alt.society.revolution
Subject: Re: What's the solution?
Date: 21 Jul 92 15:47:52 GMT
Reply-To: philip@vogon.cetia.fr (Philip Peake)
Organization: CETIA, France

In article <17JUL92180551@acad3.alaska.edu>, psrjd@acad3.alaska.edu (DENISON RAYMOND J) writes:
|> >I would see an active revolution even being so suttle as to mean having
|> >more people vote.  Look at the statistics for voter turn-out, especially in
|> >mid-term elections.  It's only like 30%, I believe.  If, simply, more people
|> >voted effective change COULD be made from within not from without.
|> 
|> Close enough.  (I'd heard ~39% in the last presidential election.)  I believe
|> we've reached the same conclusion, except that I perhaps failed to communicate
|> it properly in my previous post.  Currently (in the US at any rate) we still
|> have the ability to effect change without resorting to violence, terrorism,
|> etc.  If nothing else, the popular media loves violence, and any government
|> attempt to crush passive resistance would be a media field day.  (One of my
|> points being that it is much more desirable to educate than to alienate, which
|> is what violence will do.)
|> 
|> The only problem with getting people to vote is to get them to believe that
|> they do have the power to effect change.  How?  We need examples, something we
|> can wave in the average mans face and say "They can do it, why can't you?"

Nice thought, BUT, who are the other 60% going to vote FOR ?
You have a choice of one band of criminals, or a different band of
criminals - some choice !

Philip
Newsgroups: alt.society.revolution
From: zane@ddsw1.mcs.com (Sameer Parekh)
Subject: Re: Ruling Class
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 03:40:30 GMT
X-Disclaimer:  Material posted in this article is the sole responsibility of
                the poster and does not represent MCSNet or the system owners.

In article <BrrBwy.A2o@wrs.com> gak@wrs.com writes:
>
>>And money doesn't even make you a ruler.
>
>Sure it does.  Them that has, gets.
>
	True, but you need control of the armed forces. (Whether by friends
in high places or bribes...)



-- 
  _Sameer_Parekh_zane@ddsw1.MCS.COM_zane@infopls.chi.il.us__________________
 / STOP The War on Rights          | | Restore liberty in the United States \
 | "Specialization is for Insects" | | Vote Libertarian 1992          ______/
 \________- Robert A. Heinlein_____/ \_ap.2363@cupid.sai.com (anon)__/
Newsgroups: alt.society.revolution
From: cdwilde@morse.waterloo.edu (Chris Wilde)
Subject: Re: commies, etc
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 17:59:25 GMT

In article <7woeoB4w165w@korova>, jbs@korova (jacques) writes:
 
> On the other hand, most Revolutionary Workers I've run into haven't 
> exactly been living advertisements for the wonderful regime to come after 
> Amerika Pig Capitalism is overthrown. It's a shame that Hollywood/PTA 

It's spelled America!  After the continent.  Which is named after the
navigator.  Amerika is used solely as a propaganda measure, and you gain
no respect from anyone by insulting their names.  It's like calling
my country Kanada.  It's meaningless and petty.

> nightmare scenarios are a LOT more colorful (Invasion USA, The Red 
> Menace, etc) than the more likely result of a revolution. especially 

So the of the few examples we have, their won't be a slaughter and
terrorist state as Russia had under Stalin, Korea under Kim Il Suck, or
Vietnam after its 'liberation'.  Millions of people have died at the hands
of communist revolutionaries.  By precedent, the same would occur elsewhere.

> here. I guess it says something that even America's fears about life 
> under the Red Yoke were more grandiose than the actual threat. BTW, I 

There was no threat.  People with toasters will not fight so that they can
give their toasters to someone else.  The only places that Communist
Revolutions have occured are where the people are largely in the lower
class.  A middle class country has nothing to fear from Communists.

> read a long time ago that there was a special episode (never aired) of 
> "Father Knows Best," in which Buddy wakes up in post-Revolutionary 
> America. Ihope I'm not confusing this one with the one in which the local 
> church has been converted into a Museum of Communist Progress (did you 
> know that a Russian invented the telephone?). Anyway, this special 

Bell.  Bell.  The name sounds Russian.  Absolutely.  But even if he was,
I have no problem with a Russian inventing a telephone.  I have problems
with Communists.  The very concept denies the basic human desires of
competition, success=reward, and individuality.

> episode was reputedly shown only to PTA groups in the 1950s. Anyone else 
> heard this one?
> 
> --Comrade Fred Jones

Mister Chris Wilde

cdwilde@sunee.waterloo.edu

Newsgroups: alt.society.revolution
From: caress@cmnext.nrl.navy.mil (Peter N Caress)
Newsgroups: alt.society.civil-liberty
Subject: Re: KIDS 4 SALE BY US GOVT?
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:45:53 GMT
Reply-To: caress@cmnext.nrl.navy.mil

In article <1757.846.uupcb@factory.com> richard.donovan@factory.com  
(Richard Donovan) writes:
> Is anyone interested in PL 92-272 aka Adoption Assistance and Child
> Welfare Act of 1980 and its Code of Federal Regulations ( sec.  
13000 et
> seq ) as amended which offers a $25,000 + *bounty* per child taken  
by
> the state(s) in judicial proceedings?
>    Auditing requirements don't *start* until 1993. Reporting is
> discretionary with the Secretary of Health and Human Services.
>    Apparently the companion guide to this scam is the Child Avuse
> Prevention Act of 1985 and its CFR.
>     Money apparently comes from Social Security, Medicaid and Aid  
to
> Families with Dependent Children ( AFDC ).
>     Confidentiality is something that the *states* can elect. Any
> guesses?
>    BTW, both political parties are hip deep in this.
>                                                    

I guess I'm interested in PL 92-272 and its ramifications upon civil 
liberties, but you need to explain the law in greater detail so I can 
understand exactly what you're talking about. 

-- Peter Caress


-- NewsGrazer, a NeXTstep(tm) news reader, posting --
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From: richard.donovan@factory.com (Richard Donovan) 
Newsgroups: alt.society.civil-liberty
Subject: SLVAERY STILL
Date: 23 Jul 92 23:49:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-1243v.32bis
Reply-To: richard.donovan@factory.com (Richard Donovan) 

Dan : If you reead the Adoption Assistance and Child Welfare Act of 1980
and the Code of Fed Regs that fgovern it you will see that the Feds
offer the states a bounty of $25,000 +++ per child taken per year and
that the auditing requirements are mandated until 1993! SOunds like
slavery still to me.
   Where did all that money go?