HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pavalin@bnr.ca (Paul Valin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: canadian subway
Date: 12 Jan 93 17:54:23 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.canada
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

Regarding the Montreal Metro, I've always wondered why they are missing
a line number.  What am I talking about?  Well... there are 4 lines 
right?  But they are numbered from 1 to 5.  One of the numbers is 
not used.  I don't have a map handy but I believe that the number 3
is missing (I'm not certain about this).  Anyone know why they 
skipped a number?

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Valin                                     Tel: + 1 613 763 7394
Bell-Northern Research Ltd.                    Email: pavalin@bnr.ca
P.O. Box 3511, Station C
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada K1Y 4H7               'only my opinions...'
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: Taxation as Theft (was Re: Negative Income Tax)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 00:26:04 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.034022.7724@news.columbia.edu> gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
>cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>>
>>even given this, there are some cases where individual opting out
>>would be impossible because doing so would threaten the rights of
>>others. the military is one case; how can the army defend my house
>>but not yours, which is next door to it? same with the fire department.
>>you might ask why i am willing to allow this. really, this prioritizes 
>>by saying that the right to life is at the top of the hierarchy, 
>>something i don't think (m)any would disagree with.
>
>Then you would agree with public health insurance if the risk of
>universal amortization is unacceptable to the private insurance
>sector?
>
>I'd say that an uninsured person is a menace ... not seeing a
>doctor and spreading disease, causing massive disturbance to the
>peace by involuntary barfing/pissing/collapsing in public places,
>running up massive tabs at hospitals passed on to you and me as a
>result ...

then let those who find such a problem offensive voluntarily
pay for it out of concern for their own health. this is consistent
with my principles.

btw, i see no such "massive disturbance" in the US... i agree that
things are not good. but the arguments are of the form "it's not
fair" not "massive disturbance to those with insurance". your
argument is more of the classic post hoc reasoning i have come to
expect from you.

i might be willing to accept social health
insurance as a practicality, but i already conceded this score
long ago -- you don't get more points for this in my book.

i will admit that at least your arguments in this area have some merit.
well done, Gary! see what happens when you stick to subjects you
know well? now if only i could get you to learn something about
economics or philosophy...

--
charles
From: uctlxpd@ucl.ac.uk (Peter Bartlett)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Abandoning the Politically Powerless
Date: 7 Jan 93 00:02:58 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium

godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:

>In article <13782@grayt>, grayt@Software.Mitel.COM (Tom Gray) writes:
>> 
>> The Ontario (NDP) government has announced a policy of eliminating
>> sheltered workshops for the developmentally handicapped (this is the
>> latest euphemism for those who used to be called mentally retarded).
>> 
>> The government has apparently decided to cease providing services to this
>> population and will instead provide politcally correct rhetoric on
>> "community living". The government realizes that shletered workshops
>> are a necessity as was admitted by the Minister of Social Services.
>> They just do not want to pay for them and hope that the ill defined
>> nebulous "community" will rally to support this group which is among the
>> most helpless in society.
>> 
In fact, at least until very recently, these workshops were money makers.
That's because the ever-so-enlightened Tories and Liberals only paid 
the people in the workshops 10 - 25 cents per hour.  People were employed
doing things like stuffing cutlery into plastic bags, for use on airplanes,
the government got paid by the companies and made a hefty profit.  If
that hadn't been the case, I would speculate that the workshops would have
disappeared years ago.

"Unfortunately" [:-)] some lawyer read the employment standards act, and
thought that the people were working and should be paid minimum wage.
All of a sudden they disappeared.

On the other hand, let's not get nostalgic about these places-- they were
basically sweat shops, and ghettoized sweat shops at that.

In fairness to the government, if funds would have to be spent on keeping
these places open, there may be much better entertainment value for 
the clients for comparable expenditures than working doing repetitive
piecework eight hours a day in a warehouse with mediocre ventilation
and minimal natural light (a description of one I have actually seen).

>This is exactly the same policy as the British government introduced about
>5 - 7 years ago.  It has been utterly disastrous, as has everything the
>Tory government has done here

>Laurence

No, actually.  The policy introduced by the British government involved
closing down asylums, and not funding community alternatives.  The people
who worked in sheltered sweat-- er, excuse me, WORKshops were virtually
all living in Homes for Special Care or other community housing arrangements
already.  (In this regard, at least as of 1989 when I was involved in 
this sort of stuff, Ontario was not particularly amazing, but in a different
league from the horrors that pass for community care over here in the UK.)
The reference to  the British government policy of closing asylums
really is a red herring in this context-- sheltered workshops are a
totally different situation.

peter.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: absmith@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Alfred Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: New DND Min
Date: 13 Jan 93 00:32:08 GMT
Reply-To: absmith@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Alfred Smith)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In soc.culture.canada, golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>In article <1993Jan11.235655.20057@philmtl.philips.ca> ray@philmtl.philips.ca (
>Ray Dunn) writes:
>>In refd article, golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>>>In article <29483@oasys.dt.navy.mil> absmith@oasys.dt.navy.mil writes:
>>>>Would anyone care to comment on the appointment of the
>>>>new Min for DND?
>

stuff deleted

>But in National Defense, Campbell will be able to let herself be known
>by an entirely different constituency, and perhaps somewhat of a more
>chauvinist one...and it allows her to build foreign policy credentials.
>
>>[why are a group of domestic Canadians discussing internal politics in
>>s.c.canada rather than in can.politics?]
>
>The question was posed by an American...
>
>Gerald

Not true.  The question was posed by a Canadian on exchange to 
the USA and in search of Canadian viewpoints.  My system does
not appear to have access to News Group can.politics or anything
similar.  I will speak to my system admin person.  Sorry if I
inconvenienced anyone.

It seems most comments focused on what the position means to
Campbell rather than what influence Campbell may have on the
Department.  The only media report I saw down here (a few lines)
quoted her as saying that she would bring a feminine perspective
to the department without elaboration as to what that may mean.

If this is the incorrect News Group to discuss the above then
it is alright with me if this post ends the thread.  For
those who were kind enough to email their comments to me,
thank-you, but please do not go to that trouble any more.
My real interest was in obtaining a gauge of the level of
interest and scope of comment via posted replies.  If
the posted replies are an accurate reflection of both,
then I think I would prefer to amend the first line of this
para to "No further comments requested." and delete the remaining
diatribe.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: montas@stable.ecn.purdue.edu (Hubert J Montas)
Subject: Canadian Skinheads
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 03:00:53 GMT

     Hi to all,

       I'm just coming back from Mtl. Had a great time up there; saw
Grim Skunk at the Rialto on Dec. 31, and Bad Brains at la Brique on Jan.
7. Yep, we were all down there, Mtl's punks and Skins and the atmosphere
was good.
       Then, I read in the Gazette that some skins had defaced three Jewish
temples and read in the Mirror that Skins attacks on Gays were on the rise!
What the fuck is going on? Care to enlighten me some?

      Hubert.

  (P.S. ain't Stretch Marks from Winnipeg? Anybody knows where they stand
        on this?)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: charles@cs.UAlberta.CA (Charles Jobagy)
Subject: Re: Taxation as Theft (was Re: Negative Income Tax)
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 19:26:20 GMT

cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:

>cheap, irrelevant shot, Gary, but not unexpected coming from a world-class yutz
>such as yourself.

>--
>charles

	Is this how you would converse with Gary in person and in public? 

Charles Jobagy
charles@cs.ualberta.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: madabhus@eng.umd.edu (Rajiv Madabhushi)
Subject: Prime minister
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 23:08:04 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Maryversity von Uniland, College Park
Originator: madabhus@emc.eng.umd.edu


Sorry for asking a stupid question, but who was the prime minister before
Mulroney?  Please send e-mail.  Thanks in advance.

	-Rajiv
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: NAFTA
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:53:00 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.155405.22241@crd.ge.com> farid@dso011.sch.ge.com (Farid) writes:
>
>	Hi ! Guys ... Will some kind soul provide me information about the
>	NAFTA ... What are the benifits we Canadians are getting out of it ?
>
>

The main benefit to Canada is that we want to stay on an equal footing
with other places for investment in North America.  If the U.S. were
to make a binational agreement with Mexico that did not include Canada,
and since the US-Canada FTA already exists, the US would be
hub-and-spoking the hemisphere in terms of trade, and thus would be
the favored location for investment.  With a multilateral deal,
we protect our position to the entire North American market, and
subsequently if the deal is expanded to include Chile or Australia
and New Zealand to the hemisphere.

Canadian-Mexican trade is relatively small compared to US-Mexican
trade right now...so there is really no huge immediate impact...
the big deal for Canada was the US-Canada agreement which now
becomes sort of incorporated into NAFTA.

The benefits of freer trade are obvious...there are things about
both the US-Canada FTA and NAFTA that I don't particularly like,
but on the whole, they are moderately positive, and provide a
measure of protection for Canada if GATT fails, and the US enters
into a full-blown trade-war with Europe or Japan.

Canada tends to get ignored in the US, and when it lobs trade missiles
at Europe or Japan, many of them often hit us as innocent bystanders.

Gerald

Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil.Idriss)
Subject: Help
Originator: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 93 20:44:08 GMT

I desperately need some information on how to get from Vancouver
Canada to Seatle Wahsington by land. If anybody is familiar with 
these areas, Please send me an email. I apprecaite your help in 
advances.

Thanks 

Nabil Idriss

-- 
Nabil Idriss                           |   We take customer satisfaction  
NCR - Midrange Products Division       |   personally.
      Columbia, South Carolina         |      
email: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: dmccrea6@mach1.wlu.ca (doug mccready F)
Subject: Re: canadian subway
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 22:10:18 GMT

It is the Montreal subway which has rubber wheels which make it much
quieter.
From: alan@ikkyu.Eng.Sun.COM (Alan Marr)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: 500 New Jobs Per Day
Date: 12 Jan 1993 08:35:42 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: alan@ikkyu.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: ikkyu

   When Canada recovered from the 1981-82 recession, the federal
   deficit was more than 8% of GDP, making an increase in the
   debt-to-GDP ratio inevitable, and hence higher taxes inevitable.  In
   the new recovery, the federal deficit is only 5% of GDP, and all
   forecasters expect the debt-to-GDP ratio to fall, so higher taxes
   are not inevitable at the federal level.  The provinces collectively
   are in a better debt position today than the federal government was
   at the end of the 1981-82 recession, so the provincial debt-to-GDP
   ratio should be falling within a few years too.

In the US, the deficit is $290 B (1991), the GDP about $5000 B, and the
debt about $4000 B.  Thus the deficit-to-GDP is about 6 % and the
debt-to-GDP is about 80 %.  If US government obligations such as Social
Security are included the indebtedness is about $7000 B, or about 140 %
of GDP.

What is the debt to GDP ratio in Canada?

Alan.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: New DND Min
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 13:19:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.235655.20057@philmtl.philips.ca> ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes:
>In refd article, golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>>In article <29483@oasys.dt.navy.mil> absmith@oasys.dt.navy.mil writes:
>>>Would anyone care to comment on the appointment of the
>>>new Min for DND?
>>
>>She's Mulroney's most likely successor as leader of the Progressive
>>Conservative Party...but there is a good chance that that means she
>>will be the next leader of the Opposition.
>>This move is designed to move her out of the controversial position
>>of Justice Minister, to a position where she can become up to date
>>on foreign policy issues...
>
>Oh?  In fact the analysis I heard pointed out that no leader has come from
>that position while several have come from Justice, and the opportunities
>to shine in National Defense are significantly less than in Justice.
>Mulroney protecting his position against the competition perhaps?
>

But in National Defense, Campbell will be able to let herself be known
by an entirely different constituency, and perhaps somewhat of a more
chauvinist one...and it allows her to build foreign policy credentials.  

>[why are a group of domestic Canadians discussing internal politics in
>s.c.canada rather than in can.politics?]

The question was posed by an American...

Gerald
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: absmith@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Alfred Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: New DND Min
Date: 10 Jan 93 17:16:02 GMT
Reply-To: absmith@oasys.dt.navy.mil
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

Would anyone care to comment on the appointment of the
new Min for DND?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: robert@isgtec.com (Robert Osborne)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
Subject: Re: Taxation as Theft (was Re: Negative Income Tax)
Date: 8 Jan 93 15:46:17 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

John G. Spragge (SPRAGGEJ@QUCDN.QueensU.CA) wrote:
> Consider this: in about AD 1600, no notion of intellectual property
> existed. [...]

> Now intellectual property makes sense as an instrument; like the
> US constitution says, it "encourages... the useful arts". But the
> claim that intellectual property represents a fundamental right
> does not make sense. Governments invented intellectual property.

Your assertion is unfounded.  I would say that governments
discovered intellectual property rights.   A right is not made
fundamental by being discovered before 1600 AD.

> They invented it partly out of a genuine desire to encourage
> and reward creativity, partly out of a desire to make creative
> people (artists, writes, inventors) into stakeholders in the
> economic order by making creativity into an investment. But
> motives aside, they invented it.

This is why they implemented intellectual property rights as law.
It does not prove that the right to intellectual property is not
a fundamental right.

> At the same time (mostly out of decency) they disinvented another
> form of property-- slavery-- that had endured since before the
> dawn of written history.

Again they discovered or finally recognized the right to freedom.

I'm always amazed by people who think governments can 'invent' and
'disinvent' human rights at will.

Rob.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: dmccrea6@mach1.wlu.ca (doug mccready F)
Subject: Re: Taxation as Theft (was Re: Negative Income Tax)
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 13:02:15 GMT

Most economics is based on there being property rights. How can it be said,
as it was in the last post that most people can be against property rights.
If that is the case, why would anyone want to stay in a country which did
not enter into giving their citizens such a basic right? True, I have not
been following this thread long enough but am quite interested. Is it not
correct that the federal government proposed entrenching property rights
into the constitution?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Subject: Property Rights are a Funny Thing
Originator: clamen@BYRON.SP.CS.CMU.EDU
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 06:52:14 GMT


Now, perhaps this is true of more commonly recognized rights (I
subscribe to the "no rights are natural" view of society), but rights
associated with property (ie. real estate) seem to vary alot, even
within the so-called Western World.

Some example from elsewhere that come to mind:

1) In Texas, I believe it is legal to shoot (and possibly kill) someone
   who is trespassing on your land.

2) In Norway, anyone is allowed to ski across your land so long as
   they are further than a certain distance (not sure how much)
   from your house.

3) Israel recognizes land ownership, but much of the land is actually
   the property of a semi-governmental agency, that leases it out.

4) Britain has a squatters law which prevents property owners from
   evicting people under certain conditions.


And from Canada, I have the following:

1) In Canada, people can own property without owning the mineral or
   oil rights "beneath" it. 

2) Quebec (and probably the rest of the country) has pretty powerful
   Tenants Rights Laws, which restricts the rights of landlords to
   evict and harass tenants, and guarantees a measure of service.


How might a Right to Property affect their implementation?


--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 681 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3891, USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: wheelan@cs.mcgill.ca (Bill HEELAN)
Subject: Re: canadian subway
Organization: SOCS, McGill University, Montreal, Canada
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 02:29:36 GMT

From article <1993Jan10.235430.10290@philmtl.philips.ca>, by ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn):
[...]
> It only costs $1.08 to travel from anywhere, to anywhere on the island of
> Montreal, with as many transfers as required (but only one part of the
> journey can be by metro unfortunately, all others by bus).
[...]

  It always amuses me when I hear about "the underground city", or all the
  shops and malls you can visit by just hopping on the Metro.  Sure, if you
  don't mind paying $1.50 (or $1.08, if you buy tickets) every time you
  pop into a store to have a look.

  I wonder if the city has ever considered day passes (or even several-day
  passes)?  A few tourists have mentioned this to me as a good idea.  Even
  though I only use the transit system a few times a month, there are times
  (Christmas shopping :-) when I seem to spend the entire day going from
  place to place, and don't want to blow $10 or more on the trip.

                                                        - Bill
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Taxation as Theft (was Re: Negative Income Tax)
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 11:47:21 GMT

In article <C0IK1L.H86@teleride.on.ca> stevew@teleride.on.ca (Stephen M. Webb) writes:
>
>Freedom (although so far that term remains undefined) is a right.  Voting is
>a priviledge.  Rights and priviledge do not go hand-in-hand.  A slave might
>have no right but might have the priviledge of serving her master.
>

Voting is not a privilege...it is a right...an individual is a sovereign
entity, and any government must seek the consent of the members of its
society to gain any legitimate authority.   

Gerald
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: montas@stable.ecn.purdue.edu (Hubert J Montas)
Subject: Re: canadian subway
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 02:50:03 GMT

In article <C0MG8F.28x@cs.mcgill.ca> wheelan@cs.mcgill.ca (Bill HEELAN) writes:
>
>  I seem to remember reading that a _lot_ more heat than expected was
>  generated by the trains, so the air-conditioning systems in the stations
>  had to be upgraded.
>
>  Maybe this explains why the stations are either far too hot, or far
>  too cold...
>
>                                                      - Bill

   Well, you should pass by Chicago then! Stations are not heated down there,
so you can get a chill waiting for the train. They also are boringly functio-
nal. So, you should appreciate Montreal's metro some more... all the artworks,
every station is different... as you get used to it, you just don't see it
anymore, but I just passed by Chicago and let me tell you: Mtl's metro IS nice!

   Hubert.
From: uctlxpd@ucl.ac.uk (Peter Bartlett)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: canadian subway
Date: 12 Jan 93 00:14:25 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium

drukier@mail.ast.cam.ac.uk (Gordon Drukier) writes:

>In article 10290@philmtl.philips.ca, ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes:
>>
>>I know of no other city that you can board a bus, do your business at the
>>other end, and _return_ home on the same fare (other than by buying a
>>return or two-way ticket of course), and who can imagine a 50 kilometer
>>journey in, say, London, for 60 pence?
>>-- 

>In Vancouver, as of about a year or more ago, the fare gets you a 90+ minute
>transfer (often up to 2 hours) for unlimited travel.  I think that San Francisco
>has a similar system on the buses there.

So does Rome, and (if memory serves) various other Italian cities.

peter.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics