HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism
Date: 3 Oct 92 18:06:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: sarah.1992Oct3.180623.8322
Reply-To: pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu
Organization: SUNYA School of Public Health, Albany, NY

In article <1992Oct2.223341.13897@Princeton.EDU>, roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.210905.23940@sarah.albany.edu> pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu writes:
>>>that's the issue under discussion.  Polish nationalism (as most other
>>>nationalism) included a "Jewish Question," but not, say, a Wendish
>>>question.
>
>>>Roger
>
>>  It it difficult to answer your quite general statement "who was
>>accepted far more readily" in Poland.  It varied in the history,
>>we are talking about at least 800 years.
>
>Of course -- but Jews were often an Other in the sense that individuals
>of other groups were not.  It's a difficult question, one best answered
>in scholarly debate, not in text-bites (byte-bites?) on the net...

  You are right, we cannot easily answer the question why Jews were
often "singled out" as "Others".  This subject calls for the scolarly
debate and some texts were published on the network during this
discussion.


>
>>  Nevertheless I want to assure you that Polish pre-WWII nationalism
>>included  "Unkrainian question", "German question" (reason
>>for WWII, BTW) 
>
>*a* reason, let's say.  And a useful excuse for the Gleiwitz Radio
>Station Incident -- which took place about 100 meters from the house
>my father's family had left behind, btw.
>
>>and all kind of other questions. Nothing to be proud
>>about, of course, but that was the reality of rising nationalisms
>>in XIX and XX centuries in Central and Eastern Europe.  You certainly
>>remember that modern Jewish nationalism arose in XIX century and
>>that it lead to the modern state of Israel.
>
>Indeed -- but it arose in self-defense, mainly, after the wave of
>anti-Semitism that followed the other nationalist movements...
>
>Roger
>

  This is a metter of interpretation.  Again, we cannot answer easily
the reason of the rise of nationalism in Europe in XIX and XX centuries.
(As you see from events in former Yugoslav it seem to be still on
the rise, although this time "Jewish question" has nothing to do with the
problem).  Some Polish historians would argue that Polish nationalism
arose in self-defense after Poland was partitioned between the neighbouring
powers at the end of XVIII century.  It is partly true, but it doesn't
explain (nor does it justify) the extremes of Polish nationalism
after WWI.  I would risk the statement that ALL nationalisms are rooted
in the feeling of supression and call for self-defense (even German one).

  I can only hope that Polish nation left this period behind and recent
events can justify this hope.  After Poland emerged from the communist
period she didn't sink into factional or ethnic fights nor did she
split into smaller (purer ?) entities.

                                              Pawel Penczek
From: ejd3@po.cwru.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Date: 1 Oct 92 21:02:16 GMT
Reply-To: <<ejd3@po.cwru.edu>>
Organization: Nysernet
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org


 
Dave, There is no viable solution to this dillema accept for 
breaking up.  You cant convert to Judaism just for the sake
of marrying somebody Jewish.  I dont think you want to destroy
her family by pressuring her to marry you.  I dont think you
want to agonize your girlfriend either.  Set her free, there
are other (non-Jewish) fish in the sea.  Sincerely, Eliot.    
     
     
     
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 18:22:17 GMT

In article <1992Oct06.143454.37494@watson.ibm.com> strom@Watson.Ibm.Com (Rob Strom) writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.124947.14182@umbc3.umbc.edu>, shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:
>
>|> 
>|> Does intermarriage compromise Jewish survival?  Sociologists agree that
>|> is does.  Check it out.  Are you seriously arguing that the grandchildren
>|> of an intermarried couple are likely to identify themselves as Jews?
>|> 
>
>My mother (an agnostic Jew) married my father (an agnostic Gentile).
>
>My son David became Bar Mitzvah last year and celebrated
>that event in a Jewish service.
>
>My daughter Tamara becomes Bat Mitzvah this year and
>will celebrate the event in a Jewish service.
>
>I don't necessarily say that the position on intermarriage
>is wrong, but I think one should look at the numbers carefully.
>A significant percentage of intermarried couples are
>bringing their children up Jewish.  In our local temple,
>this is being supported even in those cases where the
>children are not halachically Jewish but the parents
>have chosen to raise the children as Jews.
>

If I'm not mistaken, you and I had this out about a year ago,
and I ended up unintentionally hurting your feelings.  It is
just a few hours before Yom Kippur, and I certainly don't
want to repeat my performance.

Still, the standard texts on Jewish sociology are pretty consistent
and clear in their assertion that most children of intermarriage
are not raised as Jewish.  I am pleased that you are an exception,
and that your parents' grandchildren are also exceptions.  The point
is, however, is that you are exceptions.

Gmar Tov.



-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Fast day bris
Date: 2 Oct 92 14:15:04 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz)

In article <1992Oct1.220225.28863@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, hillel@cbnewsf (hillel.e.markowitz) writes:
>There is a difference in that if someone has a bris on the tenth of
>Av which is the fast day, the father, the sandek, and the mohel must
>eat the seudah.  This does not apply to Tzom Gedaliah.

The (Orthodox, 90% Lubavitcher) mohel I knew in Berkeley mentioned that
he had permission to eat on minor fast days when he did a bris.  His own
personal minhag was to not partake of any food when the seuda was traif.
One minor fast, before mincha, he was complaining about how he had _two_
traif brisses that day, and couldn't break his fast as a result.  At one
point during services, a street person came in and viciously kneed the
mohel in the groin.  The mohel's only comment, when he could stand, was
that God was appropriately punishing him for his kvetching.

(His personal record for busy busy day was five brisses one Purim.  Also,
his first-born, a son, was born early on the night of Yom Kippur.)
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:54:06 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.095448.29172@walter.cray.com> aleks@cray.com (Aleksander Mazur) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.143334.16141@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>>pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu writes:

>>#  I believe that the same is true about Israel.  I can live there
>>#for ages and it won't make me a Jew.

>>No, but it will make you an Israeli.

>Did Israel accept people of whatever background or religion as Poland did
>through ages ? In Poland there was a rule, that whoever gets on Polish
>soil, free is. What about assimiliation of Palestinians ?

What about it?  MAny Palestinian Arabs are fully assimilated into Israeli
life.

Of course, unlike Poland, Israel was set up specifically to be
a homeland for those who had been refused assimilation -- to the point
of their attempted extermination.  It was to be one more nation-state,
for a nation previously defined as such and specifically denied a homeland.
Israel was defined from the start as a special case, created under special
circumstances.  Whether the idea was fully a good one as it was carried
out remains debatable, but criticizing the country for not fully assimilating
its sworn enemies (many Palestinians call for the destruction of the State
of Israel, and have in the past used rhetoric like "push the Jews into the
sea").  So to ask aboutthe Palestinians is perhaps a bit irrelevant to
the issue of Poles and Jews over the centuries.

Roger

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lms@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Max Stern 310-524-6152)
Subject: Re: Synagogue Financing
Organization: NCR (Torrey Pines Development Center)
Disclaimer: This posting does not neccessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 16:36:03 GMT

In article <2599@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
>dg = dsg@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (david.s.green)
>
>me: How many O shul's have a cantor every week?  
>dg: I'll answer your question with a question.  Why does Yeshiva
>dg: University have a Cantorial school - The Belz School?
>
>Someone gave money, probably.  Seriously, there are O shuls with
>cantors.  I don't think they're in the majority (every shul has at
>least one person who thinks he's one, however ...).  We have some
>cantors in our shul, but we send them into Exile for the holidays.
>That is, they get well-paying jobs in congregations abroad, so we make
>do with members with plainer voices who lead services at no cost.
>
>me: And those that do, who goes to them, anyway?
>dg: Is there some sort of judgement in that question?
>
>Yes, but it's aesthetic rather than religious.  I prefer simplicity to
>chazzanut, and if someone prefers otherwise, fine, as long as I don't
>have to listen.  I know people who like opera, too.  Go figure.

Yes, and I know a chazzan who thinks he's Luciano Pararotti (chazzan
Alberto Mizrachi) (;>)

On the other hand, I have been to services at the Great Synagogue in
Jerusalem, and the chazzanut there seemed frequently to enhance my
kavannah... especially the choir, which is to die for!  In my case, I
would die for a chance to sing with them!
-- 

 |\/|  /_\  \/
 |  | /   \ /\                      Max.Stern@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Shul name
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:40:38 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM (Janice Gelb)

In article <ld11d7INN60e@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM>, janiceg@marvin (Janice Gelb) writes:
>Then of course there's a friend of mine's name for an extremely lax 
>Reform synagogue where we used to live: "Our Lady of the Perpetual 
>Simchas" 

Here in Philadelphia, the gay synagogue is named Beis Ahavah.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: amos@huji.ac.il (amos shapir)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,il.board
Subject: Small bug in hcal
Date: 30 Sep 92 12:45:35 GMT
Reply-To: amos@cs.huji.ac.il
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish

There's a small bug in the Jewish Calendar program, causing Hanukah to
have an extra day when a whole year calendar is printed, for certain
years (one of which happens to be 1993).  I will put a new version in
place shortly (with some other enhancements); meanwhile, those of you
who want to fix it immediately, please apply the following patch to
hcal.c:

162c162
< 	if(dl.hd_flg < 0)	/* Hanukah in a short year */
---
> 	if(dl.hd_mon==3 && dl.hd_flg<0)	/* Hanukah in a short year */

The Jewish Calendar program is available from ftp.huji.ac.il, directory
pub/misc/amos/Hdate; (it's also on nysernet.org but I'm not sure where,
look it up in their index).

--
	Amos Shapir		Net: amos@cs.huji.ac.il
Paper: The Hebrew Univ. of Jerusalem, Dept. of Comp. Science.
       Givat-Ram, Jerusalem 91904, Israel
Tel: +972 2 585706               GEO: 35 11 46 E / 31 46 21 N
From: jared.hecker@factory.com (Jared Hecker) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: shana tovah
Date: 28 Sep 92 22:14:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-1243v.32bis
Reply-To: jared.hecker@factory.com (Jared Hecker) 

to:peter.koenigsberg@newyorkny.ncr.com

Hi, Pete.  Shana tovah!

Hope things are well at good the Not Completely Rewarding computer co.

jh
---
 . RoseReader 1.70 G002691
                                                                                     
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:16730 soc.culture.polish:2909
From: lmk2@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: correct logic (was: On Polish and Jewish nationalism)
Date: 5 Oct 1992 15:56:05 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <69973@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt6390a@prism.gatech.EDU (BERNSTEIN,AVRON P) writes:
>
>Earlier, someone said that anti-Semite's have more frequent anti-Israeli
>feelings than non-anti-Semites.  But to infer from this that an anti-Israeli
>comments are indicative of anti-Semitic feelings too, is illogical.  It simply
>cannot be implied.  To use an example, say we have the statements: 

............
>is incorrect.  An anti-Israeli post could come from someone anti-Semitic, but
>it need not.  To take it further, an anti-Zionist who is an Orthodox Jew could
>post a very anti-Israeli message (possibly), but would this mean that he is 
>anti-Semite?  The same logic as from above could lead someone to say that:
>some Jews are anti-Polish, therefore, an anti-Polish remark more likely comes
>from a Jew than from a non-Jew.  This too would be wrong, but it uses incorrect
>logic, just as the other statement does.

In Michael Lerner's book "Socialism of Fools: Antisemitism on the Left", he
has a very good breakdown of which kinds of criticism are anti-Semitic and
which aren't.  To sum up one of his points, every criticism is context 
dependent.  The same comment from a Polish person whose family/society has
a history of antisemitism may be suspected to be anti-Semitic, while from
a person with strong Jewish identity may be suspected to be not anti-Semitic.
Even so, both comments must be judged within the immediate context, for
even a person with strong Jewish identity may criticize Israel overly much
because of internalized anti-Semitism, while the Polish person from a 
very anti-Semitic background may be giving legitimate criticism.  The key
is whether the person making the complaint also makes the same human
rights complaint about the other nations in the Middle East, most of which
have much greater human rights violations than those perpetrated in the
Occupied Territories.

Leslie
From: avi@seal.imagen.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: HELP - Bible Qestion (Concordance)
Date: 1 Oct 92 19:12:56 GMT
Reply-To: avi@seal.imagen.com
Organization: none

Shana Tova !

I am looking for the Book , Chapter and Verse of a particluar verse I remember
off-hand as quoted in the Bible, possibly either is Psalms (Tehilim) or in
Issaiah or some other book. If somebody has access to a Bible concordance or know
where this is written - it would be of great help for me.

The verse is:

 Hebrew:   Harpoo Odeoo Ki Ani Elohim
 English:  Be silent and know that I am God


Can somebody please email me where this is written ? (Book , Chapter and Verse)

Also, if possible, I'm looking for the traditional commentary on this particluar
verse (Rashi, Even-Ezra, etc.) if this could be also included - this would be of
great help.

Please Email me your answer (avi@imagen.com) if you can.


Ketiva VeHatima Tova !
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: markr@mot.com (Mark)
Subject: Re: Chasidic Mysteries
Reply-To: markr@mcil.comm.mot.com
Organization: MCIL
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 09:24:48 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.123044.19035@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> lhsux@swingset.bae.bellcore.com (Lorne Schachter) writes:
>In article <1aci4kINNquk@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, ad980@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul S. Wolf) writes:
>|> 
>|> I believe the Author you are looking for is Faye Kellerman.
>|> 
>|> She has written a number of mysteries about an Orthodox widow
>|> who meets, falls in love with, and marries a Police Detective.
>|> 
>|> The first in the Series is: Ritual Bath
>|> Others include: Sacred and Profane, and Day of Atonement.
>|> She has written about 7 stories in all.  
>|> 
>|> I've enjoyed them all and recommend the series.
>|> 
>|> ps: Her Husband, Jonathan Kellerman, is also a mystery writer.
>|> 	His books include one, _The Killing Ground_ , about a
>|> 	Detective in Jerusalem.  The rest are based in L.A. and
>|> 	feature a Child Psycholgist as the lead character.
>|> 	I also recommend these books.
>|> 
>Hear, hear.   My wife and I are both big Jonathan and Faye Kellerman
>fans.  Their books are great and she treats Orthodox Jewish issues
>very well.

Here is another fan.  BTW, she has written another book called
"Milk and Honey" which I haven't gotten to yet.

Mark


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 17:04:18 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.154349.24614@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:

>If that isn't enough, then a person shouldn't be so selfish as to
>ignore the devastating effect such a marriage will have on her
>parents.  

How about her parents selfishness?
They do not seem to consider the effects of their actions on her.
After all, it is her life and not her parent's. And, what is more important
yet, they have no right to imposse on her their own principles.


>In the extreme case, the parents can declare the child dead
>and go through the appropriate mourning rituals; is any child so
>wicked as to put his or parents through that?

And, are her parents so wicked as to put her through that?.


>-- 
>Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
>UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
>Summit, NJ
>smk@usl.com

AAP

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz)
Subject: Re: Shul name
Organization: AT&T Federal Systems
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 14:20:27 GMT

In article <4OCT92.13483142@meena.cc.uregina.ca> isilver@meena.cc.uregina.ca writes:
>Some names I've liked:
>-      Anshe England (in Toronto)
>-      Holy Blossom (likewise)
>-      The Christchurch Synagogue (its official name, as per
>Goldman's "The History of the Jews in New Zealand". This latter
>building is 111 years old. My father was bar-mitzvah there.
>      What is the name of the shul in Corpus Christi?
>       Regards
>                            Ian
>


In Hawaii ther is a (Conservative, I think) shul called
Congregation Sof Maarav.

Hillel Markowitz        H_Markowitz@att.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Shul name
Organization: University of Toronto -- Office of the Provost
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 21:15:37 GMT

>In article <1992Sep23.011351.10613@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> ayf@pruxp.att.com (Avi Feldblum) writes:

>>Then there is the Saint Regis Shul in Rochester, N.Y. where I davened
>>for about a year and a half. I know it had some "real" name (I think it
>>might have been Beth Hakaneset Hachadash?), but I would guess that the

The real name of St. Regis is "Beth Hakneses Hachodosh Congregation".  The
word "hachodosh" doesn't mean anything, though.  It was intended, no doubt,
to be called "he-chadash" -- the New Shul.  Perhaps it was intended to be
called Beth Hakneset Ha-chodesh -- the Shul of the Month.

In real life it was called by nicknames, the most common being "St. Regis",
with "Beth Hakneses" (the generic name), "The Nusbaum Shul" (a name which
dated back to the split which created the shul back when it was in the
Old Neigbourhood), and plain Regis following behind.

The shul routinely got mail addressed to Miss Beth Hakneses.

Lest anyone worry about accidental avodah zarah, there is no saint in the
Christian canon named "Regis".  St. Regis Drive North is named after a
Latin term which refers to the kingship of God.

The real question is why so many alumni of the shul are on this net.

Aryk Nusbacher

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rmt51@cas.org (Rick Turkel)
Subject: Re: T'chelet: can anyone help this guy?
Reply-To: rmt51@cas.org
Organization: S.W.I.G.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:24:55 GMT

In article <1a9e23INNo1@werple.apana.org.au>, kimel@werple.apana.org.au (Moishe
Kimelman) writes:
|> 
|> I know next to nothing about biology, but I do know that the dye
|> specified by the Radziner Rebbe zal comes from a species of shellfish.
|> How then can it be inorganic?
|> 
|> G'mar chatimah tovah
|> 
|> Moishe

This dye itself does NOT come from a shellfish, nor does the tekhelet described
in the Talmud.  Rather, both are prepared from an extract from the shellfish. 
However, as I understand it, the Radziner process involves the chemical
reduction of this extract with iron filings, which are thereby oxidized.  The
presence of organic matter containing nitrogen (i.e., protein) in the extract
leads to the formation of a ferriferrocyanide, a mixed-valence inorganic iron
compound known as Prussian blue.  The same product would be formed from ANY
protein solution put through this process, and is therefore an unlikely
candidate for true tekhelet.  See Irving I. Ziderman's article in the Journal
of the Society of Dyers and Colorists, Vol. 97, (August 1981), pp. 362-4 for
more details.
-- 
Rick Turkel           (___  ____ _  _  _  _  _     _  ___   _  _ _  ___
(rmt51@cas.org)           )    |  |  \  )  |/ \     |    |   |  \_)    |
(rmt51@cas.bitnet)       /     | _| __)/   | __)    | ___|_  | _( \    |
			Ein navi be`iro.            |

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Hebrew origin of some English words
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 06:38:50 GMT

When a word sounds like it might come from Hebrew, one should look in
a dictionary and see what its etymology is.  To do otherwise borders
on that which prevents piety, something we ought to be striving
for at this time of year.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          The entire world		still in Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/        is a very strange apple	just telnetting to NY
 |warren@         But the cabbie
/ nysernet.org    is not worried at all.
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:10:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: wam.1992Oct6.131051.23312
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1992Oct6.123111.23779@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>Even if completely
>man-made, G-d helps those who help themselves.... (to borrow a
>phrase).
>--

It did not work for at least 6 million Jews. 
Or, may be, they did not help themselves?


 
>Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
>	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton

AAP