HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: serafin@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Mike Serafin)
Subject: Re: MLMs=Entreprenuers?
Organization: TI Semiconductor Process and Design Center
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 21:49:55 GMT

In article <18obr5INNqum@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh Friedman) writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.135934.26585@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> ogden_jon@macmail1.rtsg.mot.com writes:
>>Aryeh,
>>
>>YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN!!!!
>
>	Maybe in some cosmic joke I am.
>
>>MLM's don't claim to be get rich quick schemes.  In fact we tell people:
>
>	Then why does every ad around I see for MLM does.
>
>>           * We talk about a 2-5 year plan - Is that quick, maybe quicker than
>>40 yrs
>>                     but not it's not a get rich quick scheme.
>
>	That is short range for me.
>
>>The people I know of in my business work harder and perform more services than
>>90%
>>of the idiots out there.  So stop shooting off your mouth and showing your 
>>ignorance.
>
>	I will when you stop naming the exception not the rule.  Most employees
>work there asses off too.
>
>>The mind is like a parachute  - it only works when its open!
>
>	It is possible to have too open of a mind you must be able to see 
>fact from fiction and MLM's claims are fiction.

Aryeh,
    You are the biggest horse's ass I have ever had the distinct displeasure to
be even remotely :-) acquainted with.  I do not understand how any person with 
such a negative and closed mind could ever possibly think that he/she could
ever succeed in the business world.  If the attitude you portray here comes
across in your business and personal dealings as it does on the net I am
suprised that you have any friends at all, much less business contacts. It
appears to me that the only real business you are in is harrassing legitimate
business people. I'm sure if it wasn't the MLM folks, you'd find some other
group that you feel you are so much more superior than.  But frankly, I would
think a god such as yourself would not have the time to bother with such petty
goings on.
From: rians@CFSMO.HONEYWELL.COM (Rian Schmidt)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Merchant Visa accounts
Date: 15 Sep 92 18:16:13 GMT
Reply-To: rians@cfsmo.honeywell.com

Hi...

Is there a FAQ, or could someone answer a question for me (which I'm sure must
have been asked before)?

What are the options for processing Visa and/or Amex charges for a start-up
mail order house?

I'd really be interested in specifics (i.e., names, numbers, addresses, prices)
if you have that type of info.

Thanks for any help you might be able to provide me.

Feel free to e-mail me directly.

--
Rian Schmidt - rians@cfsmo.honeywell.com
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: ogden_jon@macmail1.rtsg.mot.com
Subject: Re: Definition
Organization: CSG Group
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 13:49:58 GMT

In article <18j9fkINNi3e@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh
Friedman) writes:
>In article <1992Sep8.145947.25355@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>
ogden_jon@macmail1.rtsg.mot.com writes:
>>We are NOT employees!  I am not on Amway's payroll nor is any other
>>distributor.  
>        
>        See my arguments in a.b.m-l
>
I am SORRY, but I do NOT have access to a.b.m-l nor any other "alt"
notesfiles, so you can post them here where we all can see them.

Besides, I do things in MY business to promote my own interests not
the interests of those above me.  In fact unless I help my distributors
succeed, I CANNOT be a success.  Amway will continue to make billions
with or without me, so what I do really has no bearing to them, but all
the bearing in the world to me.  Besides most of us don't agree with 
your so-called, self-proclaimed philosophy on business!  I prefer
to go by LEGAL definitions, so just close your trap!

Jon

From: Richard.Willis@iphase.UUCP (Richard Willis)
Sender: FredGate@iphase.UUCP
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Hair imaging
Date: 14 Sep 92 21:13:00 EST

We have an entire computer imaging system for hair designs for sale. This
 system cost us over $17,000 new. We used it approx. 3 mos. It is like brand
 new, must sale for $6,900 O.B.O. System has over 250 hair styles to use, runs
off a Targa board, you can add your own hair styles plus much more! If
 interested please call Richard at (904)720-0084 or leave message.


 * Origin: U_MISCENTRE: <<<<<<<<<< RE-ELECT NOBODY! >>>>>>>>>> (1:112/29)

From: antles@hpspkla.spk.hp.com (Tom L. Antles)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 23:36:49 GMT
Subject: Re: Starting a MLM...
Organization: Hewlett Packard Company, Spokane, Wa.
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs

In misc.entrepreneurs, uloren@mcl.ucsb.edu (Loren D. Koss) writes:
    I've been working on this
    for awhile and I'd like some advice.. 

    What I need is advice on how people should pay for it and what type 
    of prices are okay.  I ve already designed the marketing plan and it 
    pays very well for a monthly
    fee of $10, and annual fee of $25 (prices increase as you move up the
    marketing plan).


I have recently been exposed for the first time to a service based MLM.

I found it quite intriguing that NO SELLING OF PRODUCTS ON A MONTHLY
basis was required.  Having to sell products on a monthly basis is the 
worst part of any MLM in my mind.  If you don't meet quota, you forfiet
income, position in the plan or both.  In a service based plan, the monthly
fees replace the need to sell.

So the critical part is the service must really be worth the montly fee.
Showing people a service that is WORTHWHILE and getting signups if it
it really worth while is the easy part.   

The question on the previous MLM I discovered was if the service was 
REALLY WORTH the monthly fee.  If it is, it seems like a win win situation 
where everyone can make money.

So I would be interested in hearing more about your program.  After all it
isn't clear what advice I could offer without additional information.   For
example what is the service that people are paying for?   And How does the 
Marketing plan work?
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: ddavis@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu (dave davis)
Subject: Entrepreneur Group Management Guide Info Wanted
Summary: Looking info on Entrepreneur Group Management Guides
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 16:03:13 GMT
Keywords: Management guides, Entrepreneur Magazine

Has anyone purchased one of the Entrepreneur Business Guides?  What did you
think?  A couple look interesting and they offer a 30-day money back guarentee
(less shipping and handling costs).  Thanks for any information...

dave
ddavis@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu


Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: edwin@tellabs.com (Ed "Space Ace" Whitfield)
Subject: Continental Financial
Keywords: credit
Organization: Tellabs, Inc.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 03:24:59 GMT

Does anyone have any information on this company.

Continental Financial
2830 Arden Way #700
Sacramento, CA 95825

They are offering free info on Foreign Investment Capital.
They are requesting $10 for a "OFFSHORE BANK CARD PAK" that is suppose
to tell you how to get money from foreign banks.

If you live in Sacramento, I would greatly appreciate a 411 on this company.
Is this address valid?
Is there a phone?
Does the Better Business Bureau know about this company?


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Ed "Space Ace" Whitfield                Voice: 708/955-3126 
Information Guru                        Data.: 312/326-4750 

Tellabs Operations, Inc.                Lisle/Naperville, IL 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cdb@waikato.ac.nz (Craig D. Beere)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Amway vs Primerica vs Whatever vs Widgets Inc
Date: 8 Sep 92 17:10:06 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <REB.92Sep3175454@punch.EBay.Sun.COM>,
 reb@punch.EBay.Sun.COM (Bob Brown) writes:
> One of the challenges in stating assets (or income) between companies
> is how are the numbers measured.

True.  When I said Amway was a $US33B company I meant that $US33B retail
dollars of products have moved through Amway distributors in the last year.

> Uhhh, my daddy is bigger than yours and he can beat him up!

So, I have smellier feet than you! :=)

> craig> Opinions on this?
> 
> I think I gave mine--- I'd prefer a company with more products not
> less, I'd prefer a company that requires no licenses, I'd prefer a
> company that's been around longer, I'd prefer a company that is debt
> free. HOWEVER, I believe people can make money in any of them.
> (Incidently, one of the really good books is _All YOU CAN DO IS ALL
> YOU CAN DO BUT ALL YOU CAN DO IS ENOUGH_ by Art Williams, one of the
> founders of AL Williams, now Primerica (and other branches).

I would add to this that I would prefer a company that protects distributors
and customers.  I mean this in two specific ways:
1. 100% money-back, which applies to distributirs as well as end-users
2. Environmental concerns.

> Can we move this to alt.business.multi-level?!

There is a bit of argument about this...[understatement]

I feel that MLMs are just as entreprenurial as other business ideas.  I advise
people to read the description of misc.entrepreneurs if they feel MLMs are not
appropriate here.  I feel that MLM should maybe be a subset of
entrepreneurship.  Maybe we should have misc.entrepreneur.multi-level?

> --Bob
> Systar Technologies, Inc.		   Sun: robert.brown@EBay.Sun.COM
> 1712 Picasso Avenue, #B & #C            Office: reb@systar.com
> Davis, California  95616		 Phone: (916) 753 - 2611

BTW Bob, thank you for an adult reply to my message.  I have had rather a lot
of immature flamings in the last month, it's nice to get an intelligent reply.
It's a little sad that adult replies are the exception, tho...

{*******************************************************************************
** Craig D. Beere  (a.k.a. ++Byron)
** University of Waikato, New Zealand
** CDB@waikato.ac.nz
*}
{$I standard_disclaimer}
{$I witty_quote}
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: mspace@netcom.com (Brian Hall)
Subject: Re: New Product Marketing
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 05:57:32 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa

zaid@seas.gwu.edu (Zaid AL-wandawi) writes:
>	I am trying to advertise a product to HW/SW developers & resellers.
>It seems that most of the magazines I'm familiar with are intended for people
>who buy rather than sell computer products. 
>	If anyone can answer the following questions I will grately
> appreciate it:


>	1. If I have an account with online services such as CompuServe, Ao
>	 AppleLink, etc., can I place adds there?

That can be considered being in poor taste.  AppleLink will sell space
in the daily announcement (1/2 or full screen) that people see when they first
connect to AppleLink.

>	2. Any magazine(s) out there specificaly for HW/SW developers?

Try MacTutor, SPLash Journal, Midnight Engineer, and the like.  You may
also want to target programming SIGs of User groups.

>	My add would appear with product inf. and contact number. I would 
>like to place my company's name also, but thats not a priority. Please, E-Mail
>me any information and advice that you might think is of value and I will 
>forward it to whom ever requests it. Thank you in advance for your help.

You should also make yourself known at the various events that developers
attend - the Apple WWDC, MacHack, Developer University, etc.

-- 

 \ | /   | Brian Hall                 mspace@netcom.com
 - : -   | Mark/Space Softworks       Applelink: markspace
  /|\    |                            America Online: MarkSpace
 |-+-|   |
/-\|/-\  | The tornado ate my powerbook.
From: ivory@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (John Ivory)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: DBA for Partnerships?
Date: 8 Sep 92 15:53:55 GMT
Reply-To: ivory@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com
Organization: Tower Concepts

>>So, the question is: can we legally use a name without having to go
>>through the process of incorporation.  Can we set up a bank account
>>without hassles?  This is for a partnership -- not an individual.
>
>Yep - a DBA is perfect for doing this.  Just walk into your friendly
>neighborhood bank with your DBA registration paperwork, and they'll
>be glad to let you open a business account.  (The fees are generally 
>more on business accounts).  One thing to know about business accounts -
>you must DEPOSIT all checks written to your business into the account.  
>You can't just cash them, and you can't sign them over to yourself and
>deposit it into a personal account.  Good Luck!
>

The rule of depositing all your checks actually works a little
to your advantage.  It forces some recording of your transactions.
For my operation, I then write checks for everything.  They then
serve as receipts and reminders at tax time.  You then 'pay' yourself
by writing a check to yourself from the business account.  I always
make these out to 'cash', get the $$$, and deposit directly into
my personal account.  The 'cash' route shortcuts the clearing
delays that the banks jerk people around with.

Towards your original question, I only had to insure that my name
was unique within the county I applied for the DBA in.  They kept
a file of 3x5 cards for all existing companies, so the research effort
was almost nothing.


------------------------------------------------------------------------- \ \ \ 
   Tower Concepts                                          John E. Ivory   \ \
   103 Sylvan Way                                       ivory@crd.ge.com    \ \
   New Hartford, NY  13413                     ivory@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com     \
   (315) 724-1471                                                             \
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cliff@allen.com (Cliff Allen)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: New Product Marketing
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 00:28:48 EDT
Organization: Allen Marketing Group - Raleigh, NC

zaid@seas.gwu.edu (Zaid AL-wandawi) writes:

> 	2. Any magazine(s) out there specificaly for HW/SW developers?

There are a number of publications aimed at PC software developers, such 
as Computer Language, Dr. Dobbs, C Users Journal, plus several database 
pubs.  For hardware developers, a good magazine is Midnight Engineering.

If the product could be sold by resellers, you might contact Programmers 
Shop or some of the other catalogs.

There may be magazines that are more focused than these, so take a look 
at the SRDS directory of publications at the library -- section 5A.

Cliff
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: Brennan.J.Murphy.53@nd.edu (Brennan Murphy)
Subject: College Reps Wanted
Followup-To: misc.entrepreneurs
Organization: University of Notre Dame
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:05:29 GMT


I am looking for bright college students who are interested in being a
marketing representative at their respective schools.  The job entails
promoting the Wall Street Investment Challenge. For more information, send
email to Brennan.J.Murphy.53@nd.edu.  In the subject line of the header
please include the school you attend, for example, Info Request--Univ. of
Notre Dame.
From: Ken_J_Siegel@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Info needed to sell food product
Date: Fri,  4 Sep 92 22:13:33 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

First, I have never tried to sell home made food commercially, but I am a 
chef in a 5-Diamond hotel in NJ (so you milage might vary in a different 
state.)  I believe it is illegal to sell food commercially without 
having a health inspection of your kitchen.  Having read the NJ health
inspection laws/codes, it would almost be impossible to get approval
in a regular home kitchen.  If you want to spend 50-100k and put a 
commercial kitchen in you basement, that could work (I think).  You would
be putting yourself in total financial risk by selling food products
without a commercial kitchen.  Though there are ways around it.  A    
co-worker of mine does some catering on the side, and if she ever got/gets
in trouble she will tell them that she uses the kitchen of a former 
employer (he knows she is doing this.)  You could make an arrangement to
use the commercial/licensed kitchen of a restaurant in off hours (or    
just on paper), say a couple of hours a week.  You would probably have
to pay to use it, maybe you could give them a cut of the action.  Also, 
many churches/temples have licensed kitchens that are not used often, you 
could probably make an offer of regular donations (rent) that somebody
would accept.  Good luck, any questions, just ask...
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: reznik@robios.me.wisc.edu (Dan S. Reznik)
Subject: Formal Education in Entrepeneurship
Organization: U. Wisconsin-Madison, Robotics Laboratory
Date: 13 Sep 92 14:34:07


Dear members of misc.entrepreneurs:

In May 93, I will have finished the residence requirements for my
PhD in Computer Science. From then on, and for 2-3 semesters,
my only activity will be writing my dissertation.
However, during that time I would also like to take some classes in
business/marketing/economics since I plan to eventually start my own
business. What formal exposure, specifically: classes, do you think is
appropriate, and in what order ?

Dan

Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: burgoyne@access.digex.com (J. Robert Burgoyne)
Subject: Re: Market research - a missing ingredient?
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 01:54:39 GMT


Yes. The market before the product. With the market established before there
is a product, Ben Suarez claims a success rate of 1 in 7.

With the product before the market, the success rate is 1 in 70,000.

My best suggestion would be to get some of the classic books by the
entrepreneurs who have already done something that you may be interested in.

There is always plenty of time -- you certainly don't need to make a 
commitment now because good ideas come along all the time.
commitment to do something before you are ready.

I am in the process of putting together a file which contains the best
books on being an entrepreneur that I have read. Send email or wait a bit
and I'll post.

Others are likely to respond to your post as well.

Robert Burgoyne
burgoyne@access.digex.com
From: uloren@mcl.ucsb.edu (Loren D. Koss)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: MLMs=Entreprenuers?
Date: 9 Sep 92 00:31:24 GMT

In <1992Sep8.115806.18409@hellgate.utah.edu> llarsen%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Loren Larsen) writes:
>elements.  I've been recruited by MLMers before and they always have these
>great stories to tell of how "so and so just spoke at our last meeting and
>they make $1 million every year and they don't even have to work any more."
>How many times have we heard that?  Most people I know who are in MLMs are
>really gung ho about it for a couple months and then once they find out that
>their hard sell sales pitches have lost them all their friends and now that
>they have quit their job and they have less income than they did before they
>have a big time reality check.

Obviousely, anyone who quits their job BEFORE they make big money is a
complete fool.  I know someone who just recently quit their job for one of
the MLM's I am in, and that was only because his last check was 5 digits.

>The truth is very very few people strike it ruch in MLMs.  The majority of
>people I know hate the idea and are flee MLMs with more vigor than Jehovas
>Witnesses.  Most people I know in MLMs are extrelemly naive and easily 
>persuaded to jump on bandwagons too.  Of course I'm generalizing, but in MY
>experience this is 100% true without exception.

Check in the record book.  MLM has created more millionnaires THAN ANY OTHER
INDUSTRY IN THE WORLD!!  You only know a few poor souls who didn't make it.
Their are a lot more people out there!!

>Go ahead flame away as I'm sure you will.  Of course that will just reinforce

I am not flaming, just telling you reality.  I wish we could just drop
arguments.  Obviously, you people are COMPLETELY uneducated in the field and
that is fine. I don't know where you went to college, but I was just in
Berkeley and know that a professor there is involved.  Not only that, I
visited Chico recently and know that their Economics teacher ENCOURAGES MLM
participation. 

>the image I've portrayed of MLMers, but I'm sure that won't stop anyone. 
>The last question is this, is MLM a form of entrepreneurship?  Yeah, it 
>is a special case of entrepreneurship, one that requires little creativity 
>and no original development of a product or service, but it does involve
>risk.  Okay I'll grant that is is A form of entrepreneurship.  For that
>reason, there has been a SPECIAL newsgroup created just for it.  So go use it
>and DON'T crosspost.  Maybe we should rename this group 
>misc.entrepreneurs.not.mlm

>Loren
 Nice name...

 Loren
From: aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh Friedman)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: MLMs=Entreprenuers?
Date: 10 Sep 1992 20:40:05 GMT
Organization: Marsnet
NNTP-Posting-Host: cash.ucsc.edu

In article <1992Sep10.135934.26585@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> ogden_jon@macmail1.rtsg.mot.com writes:
>Aryeh,
>
>YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN!!!!

	Maybe in some cosmic joke I am.

>MLM's don't claim to be get rich quick schemes.  In fact we tell people:

	Then why does every ad around I see for MLM does.

>           * We talk about a 2-5 year plan - Is that quick, maybe quicker than
>40 yrs
>                     but not it's not a get rich quick scheme.

	That is short range for me.

>The people I know of in my business work harder and perform more services than
>90%
>of the idiots out there.  So stop shooting off your mouth and showing your 
>ignorance.

	I will when you stop naming the exception not the rule.  Most employees
work there asses off too.

>The mind is like a parachute  - it only works when its open!

	It is possible to have too open of a mind you must be able to see 
fact from fiction and MLM's claims are fiction.
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Need info on correspondence degree programs
From: jack@myamiga.mixcom.com (Jack Decker)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 15:11:04 GMT
Organization: Northern Bytes BBS - Sault Ste. Marie, MI U.S.A.

In article <92246.38584.J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM> dated Wed, 2 Sep 92
17:46:46 GMT, J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM wrote:

 > Frank Sayre had a lot of questions.  I have one answer, but chose not to
 > repost his question.

 > When looking at accreditation, look for the Western Association of
 > Colleges. This (according to a counselor at De Anza College in Cupertino,
 > CA) is the only accreditation honored by places such as Stanford, Harvard,
 > University of California, Yale, etc., etc,.  I wanted to get a degree at
 > UOP (University of Phoenix) in our local area.  My employer would not
 > accept it as a degree because it lacked this accreditation.

Sounds to me like your employer has a problem, or an axe to grind, or is an
ultra-liberal who wants to make sure that your thinking is "politically
correct".

I'd VERY seriously think about finding a different employer.  This one is going
to try and control every aspect of what you think, say, and do.

Jack

Jack Decker                               | No, I don't own an Amiga; I just
Internet address: jack@myamiga.mixcom.com | get Internet mail via a gateway
Fidonet address:  1:154/8                 | system that runs on an Amiga.