HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Geoff@equinox.gen.nz (Geoff Mccaughan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: Sir Robert Muldoon Dies
Date: 12 Aug 92 23:08:46 GMT
Organization: Equinox Networks
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

meachen@med.wcc.govt.nz writes:
>
>In article <Geoff.12fr@equinox.gen.nz>, Geoff@equinox.gen.nz (Geoff
Mccaughan) writes:
>>
>>So where are all the women crying "politics would be so much more caring
and
>>non-agressive with women in control" ?
>>
>>Funny how you don't hear this so much these days...
>
>I cant see how gender has anything to do with it, why blame women for
>Government policies, just because they are women? Maybe because they
>are text-book academics maybe, not just mere women.

I am not 'blaming women for Government policies' I am simply providing a
counterargument for the facile and oft-heard argument that blames men and
'patriarchal society' for Government policies, and asserts that things would
be be all smiles and warm fuzziness with women in control.

As you say, gender has nothing to do with it. Politics is simply one of the
lowest forms of human activity.

--
Geoff, Sysop Equinox (equinox.gen.nz) +64 (3) 3854406 [4 Lines]
                               Voice: +64 (3) 3852101
        "Hi. You have just entered the fourth dimension. Small isn't it?"
From: cdb@waikato.ac.nz (Craig D. Beere)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: Religion (Duck! incoming flames!)
Date: 13 Aug 92 14:01:16 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

> I mean this in the nicest possible way.....honest. 
>  
> I don't remember any announcement appointing Mr Beer the arbitor of what is
> appropriate matter for discussion in this group. 
>  
> Amway operates in New Zealand. Some people actually spend time selling the
> stuff - or trying to anyway. If we forbid discussions on multi-nationals we
> won't even be able to talk about the Bank of New Zealand soon. 
>  
> If you don't want to talk about Amway in New Zealand, Craig......fine. But
> don't go around telling others what they should or should not talk about.
>  
> Thank you.
>  
> Steve

Mea culpa on that one.

My intention was not to tell people what do do but to point them in the right
direction (well, what I in MHO think is the right direction :-).  
Sorry if my choice of words didn't indicate that.

{*******************************************************************************
** Craig D. Beere  (a.k.a. ++Byron)
** University of Waikato, New Zealand
** CDB@waikato.ac.nz
*}
{$I standard_disclaimer}
{$I witty_quote}
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: Sir Robert Muldoon Dies
From: Geoff@equinox.gen.nz (Geoff Mccaughan)
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:04:04 +1200
Organization: Equinox Networks
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

meachen@med.wcc.govt.nz writes:
>
>Well answer this would you rather be on the dole or in employment?
>New Zealand will never be a self-sufficient country and borrowing is
>not such a bad thing, its the way you go about reducing the national
>debt. 

Since you assert we will never be self-sufficient, just where do you expect
to get the money to repay those loans?

Borrowing to reduce the national deby makes about as much sense as fucking
for chastity.

>Why should'nt these people be able to retire early, why not the age
>50 and why should'nt they live in the style they have worked for all
>their working lives. After all if they dont give up work at some 
>stage, there will be less jobs for the young people who need a vocation
>in life, isnt this obvious?

No it's not 'obvious', what is obvious is that generous retirement schemes
are a good idea if and only if the country can afford them [i.e. the rest of
the economy has to be up to scratch]. Muldoon's scheme would have bankrupted
the country by the time my retirement comes around.

>Wasn't Muldoon in the IMF? The wage-price freeze hasnt had the effect
>on this country like the dole cuts and employment contracts bill has.

Agreed, but it also didn't achieve any positive result.

>>Really, I think the last two sucessive governments are into a bit of
>overkill, some of the changes were quite unnecessary, attempts to
>introduce a class system in New Zealand are culturally and morally
>unacceptable and should'nt be allowed to continue. 

The attempts have been [whatever their merits] to sort out the countries
economic problems. Any percieved 'class system' as a result has been a side
effect rather than the initial aim.

>What kind of attitude is that? Maybe his family and close friends may
>object to that, I would. I'll always remember him as the policitian
>game enough to take on the role of the narrator in The Rocky Horror
>Picture Show.

A pity he didn't confine this energies to acting IMHO.

--
Geoff, Sysop Equinox (equinox.gen.nz) +64 (3) 3854406 [4 Lines]
                               Voice: +64 (3) 3852101
        "Hi. You have just entered the fourth dimension. Small isn't it?"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
From: meachen@med.wcc.govt.nz
Subject: Re: Sir Robert Muldoon Dies
Reply-To: meachen@med.wcc.govt.nz
Organization: Wellington City Council, Wgtn, NZ
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:22:26 GMT


In article <1992Aug14.123021.16415@actrix.gen.nz>, Bruce.Hoult@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes:
>In article <1992Aug11.234031.25131@peponi.wcc.govt.nz> meachen@med.wcc.govt.nz writes:
>> 
>> New Zealand will never be a self-sufficient country and borrowing is
>> not such a bad thing, its the way you go about reducing the national
>> debt. 
>
>
>!!!!!! Holy cow !!!!!!
>
>Earth calling meachen, earth calling meachen.  Do you read?  Over.
>
>-- 
>Bruce.Hoult@bbs.actrix.gen.nz   Twisted pair: +64 4 477 2116
>BIX: brucehoult                 Last Resort:  PO Box 4145 Wellington, NZ
>"Cray's producing a 500 MIPS personal computer with 256MB RAM and 8 GB
>hard disk that fits in your pocket!"   "Great!  Is it PC compatible?"

Yea I read you

--
Red
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Superannuation  (was :Re Muldoon dies)
From: barryp@otago.ac.nz
Date: 14 Aug 92 11:25:22 +1300
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand

In article <1992Aug13.093733.304@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>, paul@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva) writes:
> From article <1992Aug12.161416.10051@waikato.ac.nz>, by hist1261@waikato.ac.nz:
>> In article <1992Aug12.075038.280@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>, paul@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva) writes:
> 
>> Whether or not the "scheme was always unsustainable" is also debatable. 
> 
> Most things are debatable :-).  Given the country's demographics though,
> the sceheme would have come under tremendous pressure when the baby boomers
> start reaching 60 in about 12 years time.  Any scheme based on funding
> retirement income almost entirely out of current taxation is going to get
> into big trouble when a large population bulge reaches retirment age.
> 
Any retirement income can only be based on the country's ability to support
it.  That is independant of whether it is funded out of taxes or savings.  If
outputs are low and the retired have large amounts of money to spend then
they are going to get them at the expense of the people producing them.  the
problem with retired people's incomes is that not enough is being produced
relative to consumption.  rather than encourage the elderly to eat less we
should be producing more.

Whether a savings scheme would encourage growth or not is another matter.  the

fact is that any superannuation scheme is paid for by the workers even if the
recipients think they have saved for it.

Barry Phease
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: $10 note ..
From: meachen@med.wcc.govt.nz
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 04:40:42 GMT
Reply-To: meachen@med.wcc.govt.nz
Organization: Wellington City Council, Wgtn, NZ


In article <1992Aug18.034650.5556@actrix.gen.nz>, patrick@actrix.gen.nz (Pat Cain) writes:
>Recently I've noticed a new $10 note.. does anyone know how long it's
>been available?

I got a fright when I went to the money machine today and nearly
dropped the cash on recieving these odd coloured notes, a new $20 
dollar note is out as well, unfortuanately I spent it so I can't say 
what was on it.

>-- 
>Pat Cain, PO Box 2060, Wellington, NZ  ()  em: cain_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

--
Red
From: ramorgan@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Maori Fisheries Continued ...
Date: 20 Aug 92 04:08:02 GMT
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

If the Ngai Tahu iwi get control of the fisheries down south, then it will be
among the most progressive and positive things that has happened in this
country for a while. My trust in the Ngai Tahu people to administrate, conserve
and value the fisheries far outweighs my trust in the govt.

I'm not Ngai Tahu, but I have no problem with the fisheries being under their
control, they've done their homework and the spinoffs to ALL people in this
country will be forthcoming.

Hey, just think of how many more Maori tax payers there will be ! And at least
we can be pretty sure none of it will be sold to overseas interests.

Kia ora Tipene for all of your hard work, and those around you. Kia kaha. 

PS : Nobody will waste good taiaha (spears?) on fear borne from ignorance.
From: nigel@tarawera (Nigel Keam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: Maori LT award ??
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:28:10 GMT
Organization: Pencom Software

In article <vt3nbzg8@csv.warwick.ac.uk> bsahl@warwick.ac.uk (Cathi Maryon)  
writes:
> 
> 
> What's this I heard about the recent Maori land tribunal award giving
> some tribes all fishing rights around the South Island and a 
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ OK, I'll buy this part
> percentage of the economy in some parts of the South Island? 
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ but NOW I'm puzzled
> (reported in the London "Independent" on Tuesday 11th August I think).
> 

How do you give anyone part of an economy??? - taxes on non-Maoris ???

- I hope this is some kind of sick joke

Disclaimer:
- ooo look,... a spear... and its headed my way!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: $10 note ..
From: patrick@actrix.gen.nz (Pat Cain)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 03:46:50 GMT
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange

Recently I've noticed a new $10 note.. does anyone know how long it's
been available?

Front is the same except top left and bottom right corners are in
a lighter shade of blue, so is part of the middle of the note.
On the right hand side is the New Zealand 1990 logo.

The back is also similar but with a picture of the treaty
being signed and thords "New Zealand 1990 Commemorating the
signing of the Treaty of Waitangi 1840".  Is this a new note
(and if so, why put it out in 1992?) or are the banks doing
some recycling?
-- 
Pat Cain, PO Box 2060, Wellington, NZ  ()  em: cain_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Bits of an economy
From: James_Swindells@f210.n771.z3.fidonet.org (James Swindells)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 10:36:54 +1200
Organization: Te Wahapu 
X-Comment-To: Nigel_Keam@f170.n771.z3.fidonet.org (Nigel Keam)

The only sick joke going on here is that the New Zealand Government assumed 
the rights to property that belonged to another group the South Island Maori 
tribe Ngai Tahu.  Its just not cricket to go and claim something to be yours 
when in fact it is not.  This is what the New Zealand Government did when it 
divied up the fishing resource and sold it off to private interests.  The 
Treaty of Waitangi assured those Maori representatives who signed it that 
their native property rights would be protected other than when of their own 
free will, they chose to alienate them.  There is no evidence to support the 
claim that Ngai Tahu alienated their native tenure of fishing resources 
inland and sea fisheries.  This has been established by the Waitangi Tribunal 
in a 409 page report that has been unfortunately garbled by the media in 
their enthusiasm to report upon it.  
 To qualm your fears there is no recommendation that anything be given back.  
The recommendation is that the New Zealand Government, having been 
established to have acted inappropriately in assuming property rights in 
contravention of the Treaty of Waitangi,  negotiate with the Ngai Tahu to 
arrive at some fair compensation.  This will doubtless mean more than a cash 
settlement.  An unfair situation has existed in New Zealand for too long,  
thank goodness that the rapid retreat from Government intervention has 
focussed the issue on property rights.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: Quayleman
From: bill bennett <billy@sideways.welly.gen.nz>
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 13:55:39 +1200
Organization: Sideways Bulletin Board, Lower Hutt, New Zealand

>  
> Some guy called "Craig Beer" sent me e-mail accusing me of defamation for
> relating the story of my mother and Amway. He must sell the stuff. That rules
> him out of the MP stakes,eh? Since when is it defamation to tell the truth?
>  
> Steve
> 
> -- 
> Steve Withers - Wellington, New Zealand | "But the glory kept shining
> Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz         |  and bright in my eyes, 
> withers_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz            |  And the stars going round in 
> **** Happy user of OS/2 v2!! ****       |  my head." R. L. S.

Steve,
 
Truth is only part of a defence against a defamation action. In fact, no 
one has ever won a defamation case in recent new Zealand history with 
truth as the single line of defence.
 
Allow me to put that another way: on its own, simply stating the truth is 
not enough.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
From: jonathan@CS.Stanford.EDU (Jonathan Stone)
Subject: Re: Sir Robert Muldoon Dies
Reply-To: jonathan@CS.Stanford.EDU (Jonathan Stone)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 00:45:11 GMT

>I was actually thinking of the likes of Merv Wellington and another idiot
>who I am completely unable to recall the name of at the moment.

Ben Couch, perhaps??   Though the Muldoon cabinet had so many idiots it's
hard to guess...
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: Muldoon on the death penalty
From: tom@thegrove.welly.gen.nz (Peter Browne)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 18:02:28 +1200
Organization: TheGrove Unlimited

patrick@actrix.gen.nz (Pat Cain) writes:

> 
> > >I was a bit surprised
> > >to hear Muldoon was strongly opposed to bringing back the death
> > >penalty.  He said he had been opposed to it ever since seeing
> > >his friends die in the war and that he could never support killing

His speech when he stood out against the National Party at the time of
the abolution of the death penalty is one of the gems of parliamentary
speech making, this was one of the occasions when he was not afraid to
speak out against the flow. Worth getting a copy of it.i think it's
available from the Gen Assembly Library. Well worth a read if you are
interested in hearing a real NZ politician speak out!

Tom

I have nothing to declare except my genius! (Oscar Wilde)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
From: omundsen@sce.carleton.ca (Daniel Simon Omundsen)
Subject: Re: Quayleman
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:17:28 GMT

Bruce.Hoult@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes:

>In article <1992Aug11.115405.12223@actrix.gen.nz> Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes:
>>  
>> BTW....I drove over the Hayward's Hill Road today from the Hutt to Paremata.
>> What a beautiful day! Then i went up the coast to Waikanae. At the bottom of
>> the Pukerua Bay hill there were big waves rolling in and crashing on the rocky
>> shore; salt spray everywhere and the smell of seaweed. Kapiti was shrouded in
>> haze (Mt. Pinatubo ash?) as was the South Island in the distance.


>Yep, on a good day that's one of the best drives around -- and the last
>part where you come out onto the cliff-tops is simply *amazing*.  I've
>taken a number of prople who don't know the area (including several
>foreign visitors) up that road on my motorcycle, just cruising along,
>looking at the view.  It's great the way you go along a pretty little
>valley floor, climbing slowly but steadily, and your passenger has
>*no* idea how close to the sea or how high you're getting.  Then you
>go around a right-hand corner through a little cutting and as the bank
>on your left-hand side ends you really suddenly (enhanced by my swinging
>out almost to the left shoulder of the road a few seconds earlier) find
>yourself on the top of a 1000' cliff with the sea below and a magnificent
>view of Kapiti Island.

>It's so stunningly beautiful and sudden that people nearly fall off
>the back of the bike!


Hey come on you guys! Some of us are living in flat places with erratic
climates thousands of km's from the ocean! What are you trying to do to us?

There is still nearly two months before I get back to NZ, and this stuff is
torture...   :-)


(Actually, I kind of like it. Keep it coming...)

Daniel Omundsen.  (Native of Wanganui, which ain't too far from those places
described...)

omundsen@sce.carleton.ca
Dept of Systems and Computer Engineering,
Carleton University,
Ottawa, Ontario K1S 5B6
CANADA. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
From: Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
Subject: Re: Telecom price hike (again)
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 08:35:25 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.010046.28463@actrix.gen.nz> patrick@actrix.gen.nz (Pat Cain) writes:
> Yesterday Telecom announced several price increases:
> * Local calls from cardphones will now cost 40 CENTS/MINUTE!
>   International calls from payphones rise between 20 and 40%.
>   Cellphone charges increase too.
> * The cost of renting a phone will rise 67% -- from $2.40/month
>   to $4.01/month ($48/year) -- this inccludes the old dial phones.
>   Phones are sold for $12.95 upwards so this charge seems slightly
>   excessive.
> 
> These increases have received widespread criticism from consumer
> groups, the elderly and disabled.  They come at a time when
> inflation is at below 2%, and two weeks ago Telecom announced
> an annual profit of $402 million -- not bad for a country of
> 3.5 million people  in the middle of a depression.
> -- 
> Pat Cain, PO Box 2060, Wellington, NZ  ()  em: cain_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

Telecom's profit/line averages about NZ$260/annum. In the US, the average is
about US$110. Clearly, we are making Telecom better-than-US profits in an NZ
economy.

-- 
Steve Withers - Wellington, New Zealand | If you don't vote for MMP on 
Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz         |  September 19, 1992, then you 
withers_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz            |  must like things the way they 
**** Happy user of OS/2 v2!! ****       |  are.....can I live with YOU?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: Maori LT award ??
From: barryp@otago.ac.nz
Date: 16 Aug 92 13:40:40 +1300
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand

In article <1992Aug14.132810.22914@pencom.com>, nigel@tarawera (Nigel Keam) writes:
> In article <vt3nbzg8@csv.warwick.ac.uk> bsahl@warwick.ac.uk (Cathi Maryon)  
> writes:
>> What's this I heard about the recent Maori land tribunal award giving
>> some tribes all fishing rights around the South Island and a 
>                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ OK, I'll buy this part
>> percentage of the economy in some parts of the South Island? 
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ but NOW I'm puzzled
>> (reported in the London "Independent" on Tuesday 11th August I think).
>> 
> 
> How do you give anyone part of an economy??? - taxes on non-Maoris ???
> 
> - I hope this is some kind of sick joke
> 

The Waitangi Tribunal recognised the rights of the Ngai Tahu people to all
the fisheries to a limit of 12 miles around the South Island.  They recommended
negotiation btween the crown and the Ngai Tahu to settle the issue.  I would
say the original article "percentage of the economy" referred to the fact that
many parts of the South Island are economically dependant on fishing.  One
shouldn't give to much credence to the rubbish reported in foreign newspapers.
After all look at the rubbish reported inours about some other parts of the
world.

Barry Phease
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: Electronic Matchmaker
From: moselecw@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (C.W. Moseley)
Date: 20 Aug 92 12:20:59 +1200
Distribution: world
Organization: Electrical Engineering, University of Canterbury, New Zealand

Michael.Witbrock@cs.cmu.edu writes:
> New Zealander women, having a problem finding a New Zealander man?
> 
> What  about woman New Zealanders who neither want nor need to find a New
> Zealand man, but who would prefer to find another New Zealand woman. Or
> conversely?

yeah, can we have a BiSexual electronic matchmaker?

I mean, these things usually have a heap of categories anyway, adding
sexuality can hardly be that complex... And given the `activity' level
on soc.bi especially, I reckon it should go down a treat, mate.

MOZ
weirdly queer, you know.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: Quayleman
From: Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 11:43:03 GMT
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange

In article <59622@mimsy.umd.edu> moir@cs.umd.edu (Mark Moir) writes:
> In article <59619@mimsy.umd.edu> moir@cs.umd.edu (Mark Moir) writes:
> >In article <1992Aug11.115405.12223@actrix.gen.nz> Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes:
> >
> >
> >Steve - you BASTARD!  How could you do this to us?  Today it's 35 deg C and
> >95% humidity in Maryland.  Oh joy!
> 
> 
> Can you believe that I went outside 20 minutes after I wrote that,
> and there was torrential rain, thunder and lightening, and HAIL!
> What a truly insane place!  This is what they call summer!!
> 
> Enjoy what you have, guys.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Mark

You'll be glad to hear, Mark, that today was miserable - leaden skies, raining
buckets - cool southerly alternating with an erratic north westerly. I was
trapped in a Computer trade show (Bits & Bytes) at the Wellington Show
buildings. The car was 400 metres away and NO WAY was I going outside for
anything!
 
Steve

-- 
Steve Withers - Wellington, New Zealand | "But the glory kept shining
Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz         |  and bright in my eyes, 
withers_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz            |  And the stars going round in 
**** Happy user of OS/2 v2!! ****       |  my head." R. L. S.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand
Subject: Re: Telecom price hike (again)
From: moselecw@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (C.W. Moseley)
Date: 15 Aug 92 18:27:56 +1200
Distribution: world
Organization: Electrical Engineering, University of Canterbury, New Zealand

In article <1992Aug14.083525.10486@actrix.gen.nz>, Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes:
> patrick@actrix.gen.nz (Pat Cain) writes:
> > inflation is at below 2%, and two weeks ago Telecom announced
> > an annual profit of $402 million -- not bad for a country of
> > 3.5 million people  in the middle of a depression.

but thats ONLY about $130 per person, surely they can do better??

> Telecom's profit/line averages about NZ$260/annum. In the US, the average is
> about US$110. Clearly, we are making Telecom better-than-US profits in an NZ
> economy.

yeah, but in the USA there has always been compeditition for subscribers,
here we don't know the meaning of the word. What I would like to see is
someone offering Broadband ISDN (or equivalent) into homes. Even if it
was just a central-city extension to a toll call franchise, it would
certainly get my subscription. Like, currently I have the best part of
$2000 tied up in a modem just to communicate at 7200 baud on a good night
to nelson (from christchurch - about 400kms). It works out to be about as
cheap to courier disks back and forth, except that then we end up talking
on the phone to sort out what to send...

hopefully the profit will go on upgrading services (but, why do I seriously
doubt that one?? could it be the government & foreign owners...)

MOZ