HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett)
Subject: Re: ILS? MLS?
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, Austin, Tx
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 12:14:50 GMT

In article <1992Oct02.235449.23224@bnr.ca> shams@bnr.ca (Shams) writes:
>
>What are the functions of ILS and MLS? What ILS stands for? How these two 
>systems compare to each other? It will be highly appreciated if you can 
>elaborate to shed a light on these.

ILS = Instrument Landing System.
MLS = Microwave Landing System.

The hardware component, when used with a prescribed instrument approach
procedure, allows air traffic to safely conduct an approach and land the
airplane.

ILS is the older system, first developed during World War II, first serious
implementations in the 50's.  It is comprised of:

1.  A localizer, which provides directional guidance.  This is located
at the far end of the runway one is approaching.

2.  A glide slope, which provides vertical guidance.  This is located
about 1000' down and to the side of the runway.

3.  One or more marker beacons, which are used as cross-checks of a 
proper approach profile, in conjunction with the published IAP and 
signal information from the ground.

ILS comes in flavors, depending upon what level of approach precision is
required.  This can involve extensive, and very expensive, testing of the
ground sites, strict controls on ground or air traffic in the area, 
restrictions on other RF emitters in the area, etc.

MLS is sort of like ILS: it provides lateral and vertical guidance.  However,
it operates in a higher frequency range, is less susceptible to outside
interference (and is thus much cheaper to install), can accomodate multiple 
approach-path profiles (including curved approaches), has built-in distance
information, etc (which, in an ILS system, must be provided by yet more
hardware).  All part of the standard.

Cons:

FAA: Cost of upgrading the airspace system, likely to run into the billions
of dollars.

FAA/Municipalities: Cost of cross-installations: light aircraft are not 
likely to need or use MLS, and won't include the receivers, so airports will 
have the expense of maintaining both systems.

Airlines: Costs of training.  Costs of upgrading avionics.  Uncertainties
as to the longetivity of the technology.  Issues involve appropriate display
design (how DO you fly curved approaches, anyway?) to best take advantage
of the technology.  The nagging feeling that, perhaps, GPS/inertial 
approaches might provide a satisfactory solution, later on.  Not wanting to 
invest hundreds of millions in a technology that may not have ever really been 
viable.

Everyone: who's going to pay for it? 

Pros: cheaper installations, compared with ILS, more precise guidance, more
airports accessible to carriers certified for low minima operations (per-
sonally, I think we're landing airplanes in bad enough weather, as it is).






---
Robert Dorsett
rdd@cactus.org
...cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!rdd
Xref: sparky rec.travel.air:4926 misc.wanted:8792
From: zaheer@felix.filenet.com (Zaheer Siddiqui)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air,misc.wanted
Subject: WANTED: One-way Airline ticket from Chicago - LA Area
Keywords: airline ticket
Date: 2 Oct 92 23:25:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: FileNet Corp., Costa Mesa, CA


I need a one-way airline ticket between Chicago and any airport in
metropolitan Los Angeles (LAX, Burbank, Ontario, Orange County).
The ticket has to be for a female passenger and the preferred dates 
are between October 15th and 22nd.

Thanks in advance.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
(714) 966-3486 (9am - 6 pm PST)
(714) 278-1719 (all other times)

"My opinions are my own."					Zaheer 

Internet: zaheer@filenet.com

Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: pal@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (Peter Loibl)
Subject: Re: visit the States
Organization: Technical University of Munich, Germany
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 14:00:57 GMT

hong@nttsgw.yh.ntts.co.jp (Zhang Hong) writes:

>Dear Netters:

>	I am going to visit L.A., San Franciso, Seattle and Austin on
>this December from Japan. In Japan, the cheapest ticket is from Tokyo
>to L.A. So I need the airpass that I can fly to San Franciso->Seattle->
>Austin->L.A.. My question is how I can buy the cheapest airpass? I will
>stay in the United States for 3 weeks, from Dec.16 to Jan.10.

>Thanks in advance.

>H.Zhang
>NTT Software Corp. Japan
>hong@nttsgw.yh.ntts.co.jp

Hi!

Well I don't know about prices of tickets. You will have to ask the
specific airlines in Japan.

Here are some possibilities:

- Standby: Delta offers a standby-ticket (at least in Europe), that
	   allows unlimitted flying in the US (excluding Alaska and
	   Hawaii). There is no guarantee, that you will get a certain
	   flight. If you check the combination the day before, then
	   there should be little problem. My experience is, that one
	   makes about 90% of the flights. DL has hubs in LAX, SLC,
	   DFW, ATL, CVG and MCO. So this should be no problem.
	   Northwest and Continental used to offer Standby-tickets, but
	   I don't know if these tickets are still sold. Northwest has
	   no hub in the West and the rules used be, that you can go
	   only ONCE through a hub and Continental is pretty shaky
	   right now, but has real good changes to survive.

- Confirmed Tickets: There are pretty good offers from almost each
	   major carrier in the US about special tickets for this
	   combination. I would try American, Delta, United,
	   Continental and Northwest. Try to find out about the special
	   rules, flight times and fees. Each of this carries should
	   have a office in Japan. The fees and flying times can vary
	   very much. The big advantage is that each of these flights
	   is fixed and confirmed to a special flight and special time.
	   If you don't make it, or you have to change plans - bad luck.

I have flown a lot with Delta this year in the US (about 45.000km) as
standby (2-months-ticket). The 1-month-standby-ticket sells in Germany
for about DM800.--. The airpass for this flight-combination might be
cheaper. Your flying-combination could look like this:
LAX -> SFO -> SLC -> SEA -> DFW -> AUS -> DFW -> LAX (SLC and DFW only
for changing flights).

Hope this helps a litte bit,
Peter
pal@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de
From: wmorgan@stsci.edu (Windsor A. Morgan)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: Summary: BWI <-> Washington D.C. ground transport
Date: 1 Oct 92 17:34:36 GMT
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute

>On 30 Sep 92 12:26:08, Kraig R. Meyer asked:
>> Recently there was a thread about the best way of getting from
>> Baltimore Airport to Downtown D.C. via ground transport.  If someone
>> saved these articles or has suggestions, please email me.

In article <KMEYER.92Oct1101121@solarium.aero.org> kmeyer@aero.org (Kraig R. Meyer) writes:
>1. MARC Rail.  MARC Rail has an information line that provides station
>location, schedule, and fare information from a touch tone phone, call
>800-325-7245.  (800-325-RAIL).  According to that number, MARC's Penn
>Line runs from Union Station in D.C. to BWI/Baltimore Airport with
>continuing service to the University of Baltimore.

Just to clarify, the train runs to Baltimore's Pennsylvania Station,
which is near the Uniersity of Baltimore.  Also, the MARC runs Monday
through Friday only.

Amtrak runs seven days a week between Baltimore and Washington, with a
few trains stopping at the BWI Airport rail station.

-- 
'Verily, there be no leader as wise as the Vision!'
                         Windsor Morgan (wmorgan@stsci.edu OR NHT@PSUVM.BITNET)
                         Space Telescope Science Institute
                         Baltimore, MD   21218
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: sjones@alfred.carleton.ca (Stan Jones)
Subject: Re: BAGGAGE AT CAROUSEL
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 13:43:42 GMT

In <1992Oct4.052243.7156@ads.com> henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:

>->This is not entirely true at some airports. There are security people
>->at these airports who do not let you walk out of the carousel area unless
>->they cross check the stub on your baggae and the stub on the ticket ...

>i've only seen this happen at ATL and LAX; i've never seen this happen
>at other big city airports (SFO, JFK, LGA, EWR, BOS, ...)

On the other hand...I have seen it at LGA, specifically at the US Air
carousels.  Perhaps it depedns on the airline where each has some
control over its carousels.  I have never seen it at a Canadian
airport (and at some time in the last two years I have been in every
one of the major terminals).
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: NEED Airline Operations Info !
From: <SALOMONE@NDSUVM1.BITNET>
Date: Friday, 2 Oct 1992 09:54:12 CDT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network

PLEASE ! - If ANYONE has information on "inside" operations (or even a text
file) of Airlines like United Airlines, etc.. or even Air Wisconsin /
United Express and how they normally handle PASS privileges/benefits I would
be grateful.

Basically I was advised that United Express employees don't get "ID90"
privileges until after 4 months of employment, but I was also told that
some airlines will allow standby travel anyway just with the airline ID -
any thoughts / comments ?

Please send any replies to me at:

salomone@ndsuvm1                            ---- Thanks in advance, John
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: gl1@cec2.wustl.edu (Greg Lyon)
Subject: Re: Aircraft Age
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 02:38:28 GMT

In article <HROSE.92Sep28162927@rocza.eff.org> hrose@eff.org (Helen Trillian Rose) writes:
>
>
>I'm kind of surprised American's fleet is this young. Admitted, they've
>been adding 757s and 767s like it's going out of style, but their main
>trunk aircraft are still DC-10's. 

What helps American is the fact that they use MD-80s as their main short and
medium range aircraft.  American uses a lot of DC-10s, but they have many more
MD-80s.
>
>Southwest is no surprise. They've launched two 737 models in the past
>ten years. That's the only aircraft they fly. I think they've ditched
>all of their 737-200's (I'd have to check my JP to be sure).

They only fly the 737-200, -300, and -500.  As far as I can tell, they still
have quite a few -200s (according to EAASY SABRE and OAG).
>
>I'm *very* surprised Delta didn't show up. I would have been interested
>to see their aircraft age.

Delta is right around 10 years as well.  They have received a lot of MD-80s,
757s and 767s over the past few years, but still have a good number of 
737-200s, and 727s.

Greg
From: shams@bnr.ca (Shams)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: ILS? MLS?
Date: 2 Oct 92 23:54:49 GMT
Organization: BNR


In article <92275.235833RFRANCIS@ESTEC.BITNET>, C R Francis <RFRANCIS@ESTEC.BITNET> writes:|>  
|> [..... lines deleted  ....]
|>
|> Guess who won, and ask yourself why MLS is still not a worldwide
|>                                    ^^^^^
|> standard (we use ILS today) when we had a working system 15 years ago.
|>                  ^^^^^
|> 
|>  [.....lines deleted...]

What are the functions of ILS and MLS? What ILS stands for? How these two systems
compare to each other? It will be highly appreciated if you can elaborate to shed a light on these.

Thanx in advance.

Shams.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Disclaimer: Views expressed here is none of my employer's or of anybody else's 
but mine. Views and facts presented in this article have no relationship with 
reality or anybody. 
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: rubin@watson.ibm.com (Bill Rubin)
Subject: Re: Charge Card for ticket purchase (Q)
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1992 16:25:39 GMT
Distribution: usa
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.14 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: rubin@watson.ibm.com (Bill Rubin)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In  <1992Oct5.135530.6212@infonode.ingr.com>  reddyv@infonode.ingr.com (Venu Reddy) writes:
>henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:
>credit card companies don't provide "travel insurance," generally;
>
>       My Discover card and NWA Visa card from Bank One, both PROVIDE
>me travel insurance worth more than 300,000 for free.

Actually, Discover provides $500,000 for free, at least they do for me.  On 
the other hand, Henry may be correct in that it is not really "travel 
insurance" but really a very specific form of life insurance.  

-- Bill rubin@watson.ibm.com
From: kmeyer@aero.org (Kraig R. Meyer)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: Charge Card for ticket purchase (Q)
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:21:57
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: solarium.aero.org
In-reply-to: Anand.Rao@bbs.oit.unc.edu's message of Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:33:41 GMT

On Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:33:41 GMT, Anand.Rao@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Anand Rao) said:
> My travel agent booked round-trip tickets to India (British Air) for me. 
> However, she told me that she can not accept charge card for British
> Air... She would accept credit card if the tickets were booked on
> Lufthansa.  What's the deal?!  
>  Should I be smelling a rat here? 
>  What about the travel insurance provided by the credit card companies?

According to the Official Airlines Guide, British Air will accept 
Visa, Mastercard, American Express, and five other credit cards for 
ticket purchases provided at least 50% of the travel is on British
Air and the $ value is authorized by the card issuer.

Ask your travel agent what the deal is, and/or find a different agent.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| The opinions expressed above are my own and do not necessarily          |
| represent those of The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA.           |
|									  |
| Kraig R. Meyer		   	                 kmeyer@aero.org  |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Organisation: European Space Technology Centre (E.S.T.E.C)
Date: Sunday, 27 Sep 1992 14:30:01 CET
From: C R Francis <RFRANCIS@ESTEC.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: Seeking information on Amsterdam

With a 12hr stopover in Amsterdam of the type you mention you have a perfect
opportunity to sample the city.  In addition to the self-help method (train
from the airport etc --- which will work fine)  there are also tours arranged
from the airport for specifically this situation.  In the third week of
November the weather is bit unpredicatable.  It can be awful (rain + wind +
cold)  but may equally well be cool, crisp and sunny.

You will get by in English with no problem --- it's almost impossible to find
 anyone over the age of 2 who can't speak it.

One additional point for that time of year.  The Dutch celebrate a Christmas-
like festival on Dec 5th, which features Saint Nicholas, aka Santa Claus, or
in Dutch: Sinterklas.  He arrives in Holland with great ceremony about 3 weeks
prior to that date, on a Saturday (He apparently spends the rest of the year
in Spain), and is accompanied by numerous Moorish helpers, with the generic
name Zwarte Piet.  You will almost certainly bump into these characters in
the street  (BTW Sinterklas rides a white horse) and find all the shops
geared up for this festival.  This is when presents are given.  Christmas
preparations do not  start until after Sinterklas, and this is a religious,
not commercial, festival.

-------------------------------------        Richard Francis
Internet: rfrancis@estec.estec.esa.nl        European Space Research and
Bitnet  : rfrancis@estec.bitnet                Technology Centre (ESTEC)
SPAN    : ESTERS::FRANCIS
smail   : C R Francis, OEE/OWP, ESTEC, Keplerlaan 1, 2200AG NOORDWIJK NL
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: kester@mte.ncsu.edu (Dan Kester)
Subject: Re: Luggage (was: AIRLINE SCAM)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:34:21 GMT

In article <39-PCNews-120beta@hart.actrix.gen.nz> graeme@hart.actrix.gen.nz
(Graeme Hart) writes:

>(comments on flying with lots of luggage).

One thing that you can do is keep much of your luggage as hand luggage, i.e.
only check in what would be under the weight limit (and maybe not let the
agents see the rest of your luggage).  When you then get to the gate to board
the plane, the gate agents may say "that's too much hand luggage, we'll have to
check that in."  Which is what you wanted in the first place!  They generally
won't weigh it or start charging you for excess baggage.  They just want to get
the plane going, and will just have someone carry your bags down the stairs and
load it directly onto the plane.
From: shin@hpysora.tky.hp.com (Shinichi Saito)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 09:53:38 GMT
Subject: Re: Bangkok
Organization: HACHIOJI SEMICONDUCTOR TEST DIVISION, R/D Mech.
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air


 My Answer . 1) If you have a return ticket, you do not need Visa of Thailand.
             2) Only The Airport Hotel stands near by. But very expensive.
               Going to downtown of Bangkok, you can find a reasonable one.

             3) ? ,   Perhaps it's possible. 
                                                          shin from Tokyo.
From: zombie@voodoo.boeing.com (Mike York)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: Govenment subsidy: Was Re: Aircraft Age
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:31:28 GMT
Reply-To: zombie@voodoo.boeing.com
Organization: BoGART System Development

In article <1992Sep29.024330.27143@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>, brit@wagner.Physics.McGill.CA (Dave Britton) writes:
|> All the American aircraft companies owe their existence due
|> to govenment subsidies in the form of military contracts.
|> I much prefer the european subsidy since that didn't
|> result in weapons of destruction.


Hmmmm.  Does this mean that the companies that make up the Airbus consortium
have never had any defense related contracts?

-- 
    Mike York                   |   My opinions and my opinions only...                
    Boeing Computer Services    |    
    (206) 865-6577              |
    zombie@voodoo.boeing.com    |
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: ajcueva@pbhyb.PacBell.COM (Al Cuevas)
Subject: Re: "Window" seats (was Re: Aircraft 
Organization: Pacific * Bell
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 21:00:24 GMT
Summary: KC135

> In article <138044@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV>, ed@wente.llnl.gov (Ed Suranyi) says:
> >
> >   {...}   The thing
> >that annoyed me the most when I flew in a UA DC-8 a couple of years
> >ago was that half the "window" seats did not have a window -- they
> >had a blank wall.    {...}
> >But as someone who had to take a cross-country flight sitting next to
> >a wall, rather than the window I had expected, I was VERY disappointed.
> 
> United's 767's which are still in the 2-class configuration do *not* have a
> window in row 8.  (The 3-class ones, where row 8 is in business class, do).

American has a 767 configuration with the same problem.  I always ask for 
a window seat as I like to see where we are.  Thought I was riding in a 
KC-135 early this year when my window seat didn't have a window.
fortunately there were vacant seats and I moved to another one.

Al Cuevas
Pac Bell
510-823-1498

Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: staggers@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Ken Staggers)
Subject: Luggage (was Re: AIRLINE SCAM (Was "Quantas and too much luggage"))
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 21:27:35 GMT

>
>Reality check: The NORMAL baggage allowance on international flights
>not originating in the US is 20kg (1st class might be more). If you
>exceed that weight limit there can be very substantial excess baggage
>charges. I think part of this may be because they handle overweight
>bags with a fork lift rather than by hand. :)

I was afraid I would get hit with the baggage charges as well.  So I decided
to try this trick, pay for first class!

I had to go from Chicago to NYC a day before my NYC-Tokyo trip.  I had
NINE bags with me including the luggage cart.  I was doing a 1-way ticket,
so it was either pay $265 (I think) for full fare coach or $380 for 1st.
Basically I was told that there would be a 99% chance I would be charged for
at least 3-4 of the bags by flying coach.  There would be a better chance
of not being charged at all for flying first with all of that luggage.
So I went first, and lo and behold, no charge.

From NYC-Tokyo I had EIGHT bags.  No charge in first.  I had 5 bags
from Tokyo-Beijing in coach.  No charge.  I bought lots of stuff in Hong Kong,
so I had SIX bags in b-class from HK to Tokyo.  Thus from Tokyo-Honolulu
I had NINE bags.  Aloha and American, both coach flights within Hawaii
didnt really care.  My last flight from HNL-SFO-MSP-LGA, the Northwest
agent did remind me that I was over the bag limit.  But I gave her a polite
"I'm flying first class on an Asian international ticket...dont charge me
if you want me to fly again" look, and she didnt charge me.

--Ken, back from Asia
From: shell@gandalf.Berkeley.EDU (Shelly Culbertson)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: Mensch
Date: 28 Sep 1992 17:00:25 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, U. C. Berkeley
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: gandalf.berkeley.edu

Gee, virtually the only reason I read this group is so I can
see what airline tickets might be for sale (since the fares
are so high these days)!  Please, if you have a ticket for
sale, post it!!  Thank you :-)

Shelly

p.s.:  I'm particularly looking for any tickets for a female 
passenger that would get me from SFO to NYC (or somehwere
close) and back between now and the end of the year....
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air,rec.travel
From: staggers@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Ken Staggers)
Subject: back from Asia
Followup-To: rec.travel.air
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 23:33:00 GMT

what a trip.  Lets see: Chicago-New York-Tokyo-Beijing-Shanghai-Guangzhou-
Hong Kong-Tokyo-Honolulu-Maui-Honolulu-(SFO-MSP-)New York-Chicago!

And I still have Chicago-New York-Rochester, NY-New York-San Jose still
left to go!

If it wasnt for my masters defense next week, I would post more.  Lets see,
I have flown during the last 40 days Northwest (First class JFK-NRT; Coach
NRT-PEK), American (Coach HNL-OGG, LGA-ORD), United (First ORD-LGA; Business
HKG-NRT), China Eastern Air (Coach PEK-Shanghai, Shanghai-CAN), and Aloha
(Coach OGG-HNL).  

Thanks to all those who replied to my postings.  It was a great trip!
Maui Downhill was a LOT of fun!

It will take a while before I can post my travel itinerary. 

Its good to be back!  So what happened in the world of aviation since i
have been gone?  Whats this about coupon wars and more fare wars?  A British
fellow in Hong Kong wanted me to explain US airline fare structures and the
fare wars.  He patiently listened to me for 45 minutes, and took notes!

--Ken
  Ever take a stuffed penguin named Opus up to the Great Wall of China before?