HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mattf@cac.washington.edu (Matthew Freedman)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Wheel Failure/Crash/Warranty Question
Date: 18 Nov 92 01:00:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov18.010032.12893
Organization: U.W. Information Systems

In article <BxvpLw.AI8@rice.edu>, shenry@cs.rice.edu (Sam Henry) writes:
> mattf@cac.washington.edu (Matthew Freedman) writes: 
> >What exactly is a side load? 
> >How do you give one to a wheel, 
>
> I think you just did it by dropping 6' to 8' into rocks, wedging the
> wheel, and allowing the forward momentum of the mass of bike and rider
> to torque the wheel sideways.  

I think I was unclear in describing the accident. By 6' to 8' drop, I meant
that I rode down a slightly, but not extremely, steep hill, whose total 
altitude was 6 or 8 feet. The "hill" was somewhat, but not extremely, rocky. 
This was definitely not what anyone would consider a difficult or technical 
maneuver. I certainly was not airborne (before I went over the handlebars 
that is). And I am a fairly cautious rider, definitely not "gonzo".
 
> Do not practice any of the above.

I really don't think any mountain biker beyond the most absolute beginner
would go out of his/her way to avoid this section of trail. Perhaps I just 
should have gone slower, and looked at the terrain more carefully for possible wedges.

	-- Matt
From: fleminpm@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Paul M Fleming)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: chain pins
Date: 18 Nov 1992 23:43:15 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Reply-To: fleminpm@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Paul M Fleming)
NNTP-Posting-Host: o233-14.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

In article <Nov.18.16.58.17.1992.28597@gandalf.rutgers.edu>  
davef@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Dave Fischer) writes:
> 
> 
> I had a broken chain the other day, and needed a new link and a pin.
> The guy at the bike shop (a great place, I don't think he would try to
> rip me off) told me that with the new shimano chains, you can't
> replace pins, but rather have to put in a new pin whenever you take
> one out.  The new pin is 2X as long, and you put it in and then snap
> off the end of it with a pliers.  And they cost $1 apiece!
> This has something to do with the hyperglide system, but I'm not sure
> exactly what.
> In any case, I guess I'll be cleaning my chain with it ON the bike
> from now on.
> Anybody know about this?
> -- 
> Dave Fischer    davef@gandalf.rutgers.edu
> "Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell"
>                                                - Edward Abbey

	The guy is for real.. I used to work at a bicycle shop and the  
Shimano chains do require new pins EVERYTIME.. It is possible to get away  
without a new one each time but it isn't recommended. The hyperglide  
system is pretty high tech stuff and the spacing of the chain and  
sprockets is very important. Therefore, to reduce the possibility of error  
Shimano made it factory procedure to replace the entire pin each time one  
is removed.
		Paul
From: x3420abo@maple.circa.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: ?'s on Ti Bikes
Date: 19 Nov 92 07:21:27 GMT
Reply-To: x3420abo@maple.circa.ufl.edu
Organization: University of Florida - CIRCA

Can anyone tell me the technical differences between the these frames
besides the obvious:
	1. Fuji Ti
	2. Merlin Ti (both regular and extralight)
	3. Dean Ti

I really want to know how each frame differs in tube diameters, butting
,shaping of tubes, etc...
Personal opinions welcomed also

And for a real frame tease.... How about that Beryllium frame in this
months issue of Bicycling??
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: kpalm@doc.qualcomm.com (Kent Palm)
Subject: Re: Handlebar stem from hell
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:25:41 GMT

I know this is no help, but "that's funny" and I couldn't help laughing
to myself when I pictured you working on it.  Maybe that's because I can
say, "Been there; done that."

Have you tried to spin it around?  How about a little heat?  Cold?
From: shenry@cs.rice.edu (Sam Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Wheel Failure/Crash/Warranty Question
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:13:07 GMT
Organization: Rice University, Houston

mattf@cac.washington.edu (Matthew Freedman) writes: 
>(William Koenig Lloyd) writes:
>> ... What probably happened is you gave the wheel a side load, ...

In article <1992Nov17.201815.25513@u.washington.edu>

>What exactly is a side load? 

A "load" and "force", in this case, are the same thing.
A side load is force applied to the wheel tangential to its intended
bearing surface.  The intended bearing surface is between the two rims
wehre the tire is installed.

>How do you give one to a wheel, 

I think you just did it by dropping 6' to 8' into rocks, wedging the
wheel, and allowing the forward momentum of the mass of bike and rider
to torque the wheel sideways.  My favorite method is to go down with
rider(s) behind you and let them ride over the bike.  If they are good
at holding their line, they will proceed relatively unscathed, but
your wheel will be potato-chipped.  Alternatively, you could remove
the wheel from your bike, hold the rim in your hands with the point
180 degs opposite resting on the ground, place you foot on the axle,
and press firmly.

>and more importantly, how do you avoid doing it?

Do not practice any of the above.

>Since I am going to be replacing the rim, what kind is best for
>avoiding this problem?

The problem lies in the practices of the user of the wheel, not in the
rim.  A properly built wheel (cf:  Brand, Jobst; _The_Bicycle_Wheel_)
is nearly indestructible in the face of direct force applied to its
intended beraring surface.  Side loads, lateral forces, et al will
destroy almost all.

-- 
sam henry <shenry@rice.edu>
Wanna ride?
From: jmyers@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM (Jonathan E Myers)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Cannondale MTB's (was Cannondale Crit)
Date: 18 Nov 92 00:40:04 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

I have owned a Cannondale Delta-Vee 900 (front suspension only) for about one
racing season.  The bike is fantastic!  I used to be a extremely bad
downhiller.  I used to try to calculate how much time I would have to have on    
people at the top so they would not catch me on the decent.  Now I decend much
better.  The bike makes riding much more comfortable than any I have ever ridden.
I love this bike!!

			Jon Myers
From: dhm1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DANIEL HILL MCCAULEY)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: CHANGING TO STI??????
Date: 23 Nov 92 16:50:58 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

I am planning on converting my bike to the shimano 600sti shifting.
Could someone please tell me what is needed to make the changover.  I
currently have the following setup.

    7 speed 105 cassette.
    105 rear der. and frnt der.

        Thanks.  All help is appreciated!


-Dan McCauley (DHM1@NS3.CC.LEHIGH.EDU)

-- 
*******************************************************************************
*Dan McCauley       (Lair of Sam, Lisa, Spot, Spot II, and Victoria)
*                              ...with carcasses of dead smelly vermin!
*******************************************************************************
From: jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 02:40:34 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: spoke prep
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech

Neal Margolis writes:

> I've built only about a half dozen wheels, but it seems to me you're
> overlooking the lubricating ability of prep.  For my last two
> wheels, I built one with and one without and I was amazed that the
> one built with prep made not a single "squeak" when I stressed it.

From what you say, I am not so sure you have any reason to feel
reassured about your spokes' welfare.  Spoke prep may just suppress
sounds from unwinding spokes that are relaxed by what you call
"stressing".  I don't know how you go about this but it seems you are
not stress relieving the spokes.  To do this, individual spokes must
be over-tensioned temporarily by a substantial amount.  Doing this
will not make any sounds come from the wheel.  Therefore, I suspect
you are performing the "bend the wheel" ritual, that makes spokes go
slack but does little or nothing to stress relieve them.

Residual twist from truing is what causes wheels to click and squeak
when first ridden.  These sounds are proof that spokes were not
untwisted during final tightening and releasing this twist by
"stressing" only guarantees that the wheel will lose alignment even if
the rim is not bent by this procedure (although it often is).

I agree that building with well lubricated spokes is markedly better
than without, but I don't think that was the question here.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: sjlt@leland.Stanford.EDU (Sean Lev-Tov)
Subject: Re: CHANGING TO STI??????
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 02:18:47 GMT

In article <1992Nov24.015245.20027@leland.Stanford.EDU> lloyd@leland.Stanford.EDU (William Koenig Lloyd) writes:
>In article <1992Nov23.165058.25369@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> dhm1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DANIEL HILL MCCAULEY) writes:
>>I am planning on converting my bike to the shimano 600sti shifting.
>>Could someone please tell me what is needed to make the changover.  I
>>currently have the following setup.
>>
>>    7 speed 105 cassette.
>>    105 rear der. and frnt der.
>>
>>        Thanks.  All help is appreciated!
>>
>>
>>-Dan McCauley (DHM1@NS3.CC.LEHIGH.EDU)
>>
>>-- 
>>*******************************************************************************
>>*Dan McCauley       (Lair of Sam, Lisa, Spot, Spot II, and Victoria)
>>*                              ...with carcasses of dead smelly vermin!
>>*******************************************************************************
>
>Well, now that I've seen 2 posts recommending he get 105 shifters, etc.
>that did absolutely nothing to answer his question, I guess I'll answer it.
>
>To run 600 STI with your 105 derailleurs, you need the 600 STI shifters, and
>you need an 8-speed rear cassette hub and cassette.  The hub can be either
>600 or 105.  Your 105 derailleurs are fine to run the new stuff.

I've seen some people running STI (I don't remember if it was Ultegra or
Dura Ace) with 7-speeds.  I was told that the levers have an extra click
that won't do anything.  What I don't know is if the cassetes (or freewheels)
were standard 7-speed ones, or if they were specially spaced to work with
STI.  Does anyone know if the spacing of 8-speed clusters is the same as
7-speed or not?  With this solution, you'd have working STI; but you wouldn't
have 8-speed.

Sean
From: cs92mjd@cen.ex.ac.uk (M.J.Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Symmetric rear hub
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:28:24 GMT
	<27505@oasys.dt.navy.mil>
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: Computer Unit. - University of Exeter. UK

David Mackintosh writes:

[oops, didn't mean to delete that...]
   asymetric rear end do you then offset the BB also?  Use an extra-long
   spindle?  Long chainstays to minimize the chain angles?  Shaft drive?

Ah. This'll be me blazing away without thinking again :-). Let me think...
OK, if we're using a 135mm rear hub, the flanges are something like 70mm
apart (please correct this, as I'm just guessing). So I imagine we'd be 
offsetting the rear triangle by something in the order of 15-20mm (?).
So you'd be looking at a 140mm bottom bracket spindle. Ah. Eerrrmmm. Well,
I have a feeling that the much-referred-to Manitou has a 85-90mm B\B shell,
with a custom bottom bracket of these dimensions. I hope. Damn, I wish I'd
never embarked on this now. I _know_ that bikes with offset rear triangles
exist. I have to admit this chainline thang has me kinda flummoxed now. Don't
you just hate it when that happens?

Help!

Mikey D

--




"Ride and find where all the freedom has gone..."

Michael J. Davis          |   M.J.Davis@ac.uk.ex.cen
Dept of Computer Science  |   M.J.Davis@cen.ex.uk.ac
University of Exeter      |
UK                        |   #include<disclaimer.std>




   








--
From: fleminpm@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Paul M Fleming)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Out of Control Front wheel
Date: 18 Nov 1992 23:32:23 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Reply-To: fleminpm@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Paul M Fleming)
NNTP-Posting-Host: o233-14.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

In article <1992Nov18.015110.25920@leland.Stanford.EDU>  
lloyd@leland.Stanford.EDU (William Koenig Lloyd) writes:
> In article <1992Nov17.160749.22456@msc.cornell.edu>  
tan@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (David Tan,Box 219 Baker Lab,54810,2720402)  
writes:
> >From article <alanf.721963497@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au>, by  
alanf@cs.monash.edu.au (Alan Grant Finlay):
> >> My question is, is there a speed above which all bikes are likely to  
develop
> >[stuff about causes of shimmy...]
> >
> >> such resonances with no hands on the handlebars?
> >> 
> >I don't think so; at least, not until you get to unreasonable speeds.   
Mine

	One thing to check for is how the wheel is balanced. I have ridden  
racing and touring frames and the biggest cause of wheel wobble has been  
an out of true wheel or reflectors. The higher the speed the more stable  
the wheel becomes (simple physics). I have ridden my racing bike at 65 mph  
no handed and it was as smooth as imaginable. The touring frame should be  
even more stable. My advice check to see the wheel is balanced.
			Paul
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: Cannondale Delta V question
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 09:09:38 GMT

In article <27583@oasys.dt.navy.mil> mackinto@oasys.dt.navy.mil (David Mackintosh) writes:
>In rec.bicycles.tech, vvkmj@sven.lerc.nasa.gov (Keith Jackson) writes:
>>build it up.  The guys at the shop don't know what to do with the
>>little pulley wheel just above where the brakes will go.
>
>Take it off and use a regular cable cable stop in the back.  The front
>may be a little trickier.  If you do want to set it up with the "Force
>40" braking, you'll need a piece from Cannondale that clamps the end
>of the wire from one cantilever (over the pulley) to the end of the
>housing that goes toward the other cantilever...forget that, you'll
>have to find one of these to see how its done.

i've got a 'dale with the force 40 braking system described.
one of these days, i'm going to switch it back to the regular
system.  the problem is that the force 40 system, combined
with the deore 2-finger brakes, requires a lot of cable travel.
i find that the deore levers don't pull enough cable.  so i end
up with brakes that ride uncomfortably close to the rim (meaning
that if the wheel goes slightly out of true the brakes will rub)
and levers that go awfully close to the bottom under hard braking.
the advantage is that the brakes are powerful.  i can stop hard
using my little fingers.  if you're using diacompe SS-7 or SS-5
levers it might be worthwhile to use the force 40 system (these
levers pull more cable), but otherwise i'd just skip it.
as david said, you'll need the little metal piece (one for each
set of cantilevers) which shouldn't cost much.  you can try it
out, and if you don't like it, chuck it.  my advice is to skip it.
the only drawback is that you will have to find a cable hanger for
the front brake, which is why i haven't done anything yet.

-teddy
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Symmetric rear hub
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 06:38:30 GMT

In article <47460004@hpopd.pwd.hp.com> apm@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Andrew Merritt) writes:

>This is unfortunately not an infallible argument; the last time I looked,
>most moutain bikes on sale in this area had Biopace fitted as standard, and
>you got a funny look from the shop assistant if you suggested that you
>wanted a bike with round chain rings.

Just today I rode up Divisadero in San Francisco. I was riding my old
Peugeot PX-10 with 170 cranks and pushing a 42-21 except near the top
(the steepest part of course) where the shifter slipped a little and
downshifted me into the 19. I almost busted my eyeballs going over the
top in that gear.

I was riding with a friend who had gotten ahold of some of those
absolutely rediculous chain rings made in someone's garage in
Berkeley. They are so elliptical they look like footballs. While he 
was in a slightly smaller gear it was pretty apparent that he was having
lots less trouble pushing the cranks through the dead spot at TDC/BDC.

Although I don't think that elliptical chainrings are the answer to a
large problem, they are probably an answer to a very small problem.


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: freshair@iastate.edu (James W Gregory)
Subject: runny noses and face masks
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:22:55 GMT

Now that winter time is approaching and we in the north will have to
don some kind of face protection, I wonder if anyone has found a good
solution to the problem of having a runny nose (which I always get
when I'm out in cold air for a while) while wearing some kind of a
face mask?  The inside of the mask (or scarf, or whatever) will then
invariably get wet, leaving my skin cold and chapped.  Any ideas?

-Jim

P.S.  The best mask I've found yet for keeping one's face warm when it
gets really cold (below 0 F along with strong north winds) is a
neoprene mask (e.g. Gator)
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Gregory      freshair@iastate.edu    |  "10,000 lemmings can't be wrong"
Dept. of Plant Pathology, ISU (by day)   |          - anonymous
Fresh Aire Delivery Services (by night/weekends)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: fike@chezp.enet.dec.com (Mike Fike, Augusta, Maine)
Subject: Re: building my own bar-ends
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:19:49 GMT


In article <1992Nov13.225159.29784@leland.Stanford.EDU>, sjlt@leland.Stanford.EDU (Sean Lev-Tov) writes...
.>In article <Af10Xdq00Uh_44m20f@andrew.cmu.edu> Christopher Herbert Carroll <cc5i+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

	Much text deleted re: requesting input on building barends.


You could make them out of 3/8" scrap aluminum or delrin stock and they will
be very light; something like the straight ones they sell (for about $50 a 
pop!)
					
					Side view: drill and tap for 
					Hex tightening screw here.
					|
	/~~~\				|    ______
	|    \______________________________/ ---- \
	\    ___________________________| |__/    \ \
	 \  (________________________________	   | |		
	  \_____________________________|_|__ \___/ /
					     \_____/

				Slot to save weight and cutout to fit snuggly
				on handlebar.

	Forgive the lousy ascii graphics, but you get the idea; straight ends,
 any length you want.
			Mike
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: jcollias@src.dec.com (Jim Collias)
Subject: Force 40 Brakes [was Delta V question]
Organization: DEC Systems Research Center
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 21:11:50 GMT

Howdy,

This is all simple physics.  The Force 40 system seems to stop better with 'less 
effort,' but you're pulling more cable, so it all evens out.  That's conservation
of energy.  Also, a pair of long cantilevers like grafton's or paul's feel
stronger because they are longer and have more leverage, but you are still pulling
more cable to do the same job as a smaller-armed canti.  They just feel stronger 
at the lever because the increased leverage of the brake arm allows your hands to
exert LESS force over a GREATER distance (cable travel).  Again, this all evens 
out, but it gives you great relief because your hands and your brain would PREFER 
squeezing 10 pounds 100 times, instead of 50 pounds 20 times, even though the
energy needed comes out to be 10 fig newtons and a power bar either way.

	If it takes 'X' to stop your bike, then your muscles HAVE to put out 'X'. 

	Force 40 seems to take this 'more cable feels better' concept a bit too
far, physically, and i've never absolutely trusted it.  Getting suicidal brake 
response out of the system requires setting the pads up way too close to the rim,
and i've found out the hard way that if the system is not dialed in like that, the
lever can bottom out on the handlebar while your wheel is still spinnin' and
you're hurtling down the mountain.

	Regular xtra-long cantis are good enough to provide this advantage of
reduced hand fatigue (by pulling more cable all of the time), while allowing a
panic-wheel-lockup with plenty of space left between the lever and bar, with the 
pads set-up a good distance away from the rim.  Unfortunatly, most of these
xtra long brake sets are mucho expensive, but once you set up a NORMAL pair of
cantis right, they will always perform with the best.


How's the weather?


Jim
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: johnr@bohra.cpg.oz.au (John Reid)
Subject: Re: Spokes Breaking on Rear MTB Wheel
Organization: Computer Power Software
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 03:41:35 GMT

gustilo@pop-server.upenn.edu writes:

>greetings,

>I seem to have a recurring problem with spoke breakage. In the past two
>months I have had to replace 4 spokes on the drive side of my back wheel.
>The spokes break at the bend where they go into the hub and it looks like
>metal fatigue to my non-metallurgically trained eye. (15 ga ss of unknown
>make being replaced with 15 ga DTs, 32 hole XT hub, cross 3 lacing)

>Is this going to continue until I end up replacing all the spokes on the
>backwheel? Is there anything I can do to lessen the incidence of breakage?

>I'm not a gonzo rider but the trails are covered with leaves and its a
>little hard to avoid those rocks and stuff.

>thanks in advance for any advice.

First thing: a 32 spoke wheel is not very strong - standard road wheel has
36 spokes. New wheels with more spokes should help.

Second: I suggest you have your existing wheels rebuilt with tandem spokes,
assuming you are not prepared to buy a new set of wheels.


John Reid

-- 

_____________________________________________________________________________

John Reid                           
From: jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:44:32 GMT
Subject: Re: Out of Control Front wheel
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech

Alan Grant Finlay writes:

> My question is, is there a speed above which all bikes are likely to
> develop such resonances with no hands on the handlebars?

There are characteristic speeds at which most bikes will shimmy but
also speeds where they will not.  Although it isn't exactly what might
come naturally under the circumstances, if you take the weight off the
saddle at the onset of shimmy, the bike will stabilize.  It takes the
mass of the rider, attached to seat and pedals to maintain the
oscillations.  On the other hand, most changes in body to bicycle
frame contact will also stop the oscillations.  THe obvious one is to
press the knee against the side of the top tube while riding no hands.

Above the critical speed the system becomes more stable if you are
suitably positioned on the bicycle.  I customarily coast down fast
descents with both hands on the stem, and elbows and knees tucked
against the top tube.  This is essentially a no hands position that
gives great stability that improves with speed.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech