HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: yodaiken@chelm.cs.umass.edu (victor yodaiken)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: State Socialism
Date: 29 Dec 92 20:37:28 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst

In article <4253@mitech.com> gjc@mitech.com (George J. Carrette) writes:
>In article <58039@dime.cs.umass.edu>, yodaiken@chelm.cs.umass.edu (victor yodaiken) writes:
>> When I traveled in China in 1982 I met more than
>> one Indian student who was wildly enthusiastic about a poor nation where
>> children on the street looked well fed and healthy. And none of us had
>> any illusions about how despotic, corrupt, and inefficient the Maoist
>> government was. 
>
>But I think you may have some illusions about how free-market India is!

No country is capitalist, if you want to be doctrinaire about it. 
There always was some free-market in the USSR and the US government has
developed long term technology policies since the 1940's, but the 
difference between the economic systems is great. In any case, the point
is simply that no purpose is served by rah-rah cheering  for the
glories of capitalism (or any other ism). The governments of the USSR and
China came to power because the previous governments failed, not because
of a plot by some baddies. Both Mao and Stalin lead their nations through
rapid industrializations  at tremendous cost. It is nice to believe
that nations might industrialize without the help of these kinds of
criminals, but a clear eyed look at how the US and UK became industrial
powers will turn up some appalling events. Investment capital for
industrialization has to come from somewhere, and industrializing nations
seem to need strong governments to protect fledgling industries from
competition and to force open markets. One does not have to be an apologist
for slave labor camps to admit the accomplishments of Stalinist Russia, any
more than one has to be an apologist for genocide of the indians or 
african slavery to admit the accomplishments of the 19th century USA. 
Maoist china was a prison camp, but Maoist China did something that 
pre-maoist china did not: it restored social order and freed agriculture
from the grip of feudalism, and it gave china an industrial base. 
There are many third world nations that did not enjoy governments even
so minimally competent. 




-- 


yodaiken@chelm.cs.umass.edu
From: gjc@mitech.com (George J. Carrette)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: State Socialism
Date: 29 Dec 92 10:14:07 GMT
Organization: Mitech Corporation, Concord MA

In article <58039@dime.cs.umass.edu>, yodaiken@chelm.cs.umass.edu (victor yodaiken) writes:
> When I traveled in China in 1982 I met more than
> one Indian student who was wildly enthusiastic about a poor nation where
> children on the street looked well fed and healthy. And none of us had
> any illusions about how despotic, corrupt, and inefficient the Maoist
> government was. 

But I think you may have some illusions about how free-market India is!
From: gjc@mitech.com (George J. Carrette)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: State Socialism (last one, for sure)
Date: 30 Dec 92 12:00:46 GMT
Organization: Mitech Corporation, Concord MA

In article <J.TURNER.92Dec29111414@lynx.coe.northeastern.edu>, j.turner@lynx.coe.northeastern.edu (Jeffrey Turner) writes:
> In article <20472@ksr.com> cher@ksr.com (Mike Cherepov) writes:
> 
>>We know now that Soviet incomes were never better than third-world
>>level.  Historians who argued otherwise should re-examine their
>>methods and selection of sources - they were wrong.
> 
>     This argument might make some sort of sense IF the economy
> of the world were neatly divisible by country.  The big questions
> are:  Would the US standard of living be as high as it is if not
> for the impoverishment and exploitation of the "Third World"?

The US built its standard of living in the environment where Europe
and Japan, destroyed to well below the level of "Third World" by
the great WWII, was being rebuilt.

If the US standard of living is built on anything it is built
on the impoverished Japanese, Germans, South Koreans, Tawainese.
Those poor exploited bastards! Have pity on them.

On the other hand, those third world countries have all manner
of legal protection to prevent them from being exploited in like
manner.

Things like making private property ownership subject to revocation
by action of legislature. Rules that prevent foreign companies
from owning more than 30% of a domestic company. 

Those kinds of rules do not protect the average citizen.

   => They they protect the interests of domestic exploiters.

> What has the effect of exclusion from the"capitalist" economy
> been on the quality and quantity of Soviet production?

Drastic! The Soviet Union excluded itself from the ability to
import management and engineering expertise, information, the
true capital, by laws and policies that did not respect private
property rights. 

> What has
> the effect of a net transfer of wealth from the Soviet Union to
> its "satellites" been, as opposed to the net transfer of wealth
> from the US's Latin American "satellites" to the US? 

Ah, now we see the true colors. But you miss out on an important
transfer from soviet satellites, the BRAIN DRAIN.

The Soviet Union after WWII was able to strip vast amounts of factory
equipment from the satellites. East Germany was being looted before the
war was even over. 

But millions of people representing valuable intellectual capital
left eastern europe during the confusion, and after, although at
a much lower rate when the soviets realised they needed to stop
the drainage of true capital.

And what is the most valuable thing that the USA strips from 
these third world countries, and latin america?

People! Not raw materials. Not cheap labor in factories.

Is the system in the USA is -evil- because it sucks people from all
over the world into itself? 

-gjc
From: rjk@world.std.com (robert j kolker)
Subject: Term Limitation in MA
Keywords: CONCON, Term Limitation
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 01:38:43 GMT

The latest I have heard is that Gov. Weld is not going to be able to force 
the great and general court of Massachussetts to vote on the term limitation
item. This item was placed on the ballot by the voters, but that does not
stop those moral midgets in the State House from ignoring the will of the
People.

What we need in Massachussetts is a latter day Guy Fawkes. When we get
one, we can set a day aside, not because he failed to blow up the
legislature, but because he succeeded.

Conan the Libertarian

-- 
"If you can't love the Constitution, then at least hate the Government"
From: gjc@mitech.com (George J. Carrette)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: State Socialism (last one, for sure)
Date: 31 Dec 92 10:32:39 GMT
Organization: Mitech Corporation, Concord MA

In article <58131@dime.cs.umass.edu>, yodaiken@chelm.cs.umass.edu (victor yodaiken) writes:
>>What was it about the Communist systems that made it possible,
>>convenient, or otherwise available to kill millions of people in order
>>to effect these "massive changes?"
> 
> And what was it about the capitalist system that made it possible to
> enforce the enclosure laws, use human beings as property, ...

But the communists in the USSR were killing their own people!

 Why can't you *address* the difference between -importation- of people
 into a country (southern USA, slavery) and the massive destruction
 of human capitol inside a country?

[Slavery killed millions during capture and shipment. But once arrived
 in the US those slaves had economical value and were not in general
 destroyed in the wholesale manner that Stalin destroyed people.]

[Comments about my supposed ignorance of US history, totally ignored.
 For example, do you have a book that shows the -auction- value of slaves
 in various places in the US over a period of about 200 years?
 I think not. But if you did you would see that slaves were never cheap, 
 and never had the negative value (worth more dead than alive) that 
 the "majorityites" (translate that into Russian please) in the USSR
 obviously placed on millions of lives].

In other words, pretend that I don't care at all about the humanistic
value of life. 

  Just explain why industrial development in capitalist systems
  tended to import labor and/or increase population while
  the great development programs under communist systems seemed
  to need to destroy their own people?

---------
From: ttan@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Charles Tan)
Subject: Wanted: Borland C++ Application Frameworks
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Northeastern University
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 20:56:43 GMT

I am looking for Borland C++ 3.1's Application Frameworks. I have
BC++ 3.1, and need only the Application Frameworks. If anyone would
like to sell theirs, please e-mail me at:

ttan@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu

The edu price from Borland is $99, so any reasonable price below that
is welcomed. Thanks.

Charles


Newsgroups: ne.wanted
From: shapiro@cfsctc.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro)
Subject: ** PC Stuff FORsale **
Organisation: SKS Computer Consulting, Inc.
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - Marlboro, MA
Date:  2 JAN 93 18:59:32 EST


OK folks, it's the start of a new year and I resolved to get rid of all of the
miscellaneous parts running around my house. I don't care what they go for as
the best offer will take them! If I don't get offers, they get donated to the
local school system. Everything is offered as-is. When last I used each of these
parts they worked just fine, but I make no guarantees as they have been laying
around the house for a while.

So, without any further ado, here's whats left:

Full-size desktop AT case w/power supply (200 watt)

Genuine IBM PC AT 286/8 motherboard w/512k RAM

40 meg Miniscribe 6053 full ht mfm

40 meg Miniscribe 3650 1/2 ht mfm

Seagate ST-225 20meg 1/2 ht mfm

1.2meg floppy drive (black)

360k floppy drive (black)

MFM HD/FD controller card

Generic EGA card (8bit, 1/2 slot)

NEC Multisync EGA CARD w/Disks (8 bit, full slot w/piggyback)

Serial / Parallel card (16450N UART)

AST Advantage with memory daughterboard (fully populated) w/256k x 150ns
        DRAM (3 meg total), 1 parallel port, 2 comm ports (1 empty socket
        and the other has a 16550 UART)

Zuckerboard memory expansion card w/1meg of 256k x 150ns DRAM

Aparat 2Meg memory expansion card for XT w/0k ram

35 64k x 1 150ns DRAM chips

Prices do not include shipping.

Regards,
Steve.

/*******************************************************************
* Steve Shapiro                 * All views and opinions expressed *
* SKS Computer Consulting, Inc. * are my own and are offered as-is *
********************************************************************
* Steve.Shapiro@f440.n101.z1.fidonet.org  BBS: (508) 664-6354 N81  *
*******************************************************************/

Newsgroups: ne.wanted
From: hafemann@claude.ma30.bull.com (Charles Hafemann)
Subject: Boat, motor & trailer for Nashua NH area
Organization: Bull HN Informations Systems Inc.
Date: 22 Dec 92 16:04:47 GMT
Summary: Boat, motor & trailer wanted for Nashua NH area
Keywords: Boat, motor & trailer wanted for Nashua NH area

WANTED: BOAT, MOTOR & TRAILER FOR NASHUA NH AREA

I'm looking for an entry level setup to do some fishing
and hope to find a reasonable deal on something like
the following:

  14' aluminum boat (easily handled by two people

  Working 10 hp (approx.) outboard motor (reliable
   is preferable to fancy)

  Trailer for the above

  Extras like oars, life jackets, etc. would also be
   considered.

If you're looking to sell sopmething like the above,
please mail to:  hafemann@chuckh.ma30.bull.com   

or call 603/880-0538 evenings

Please be withing a reasonable drive of Nashua so I
can come look at your offer.  Thanks.

P.S. - Yes, I can spell.  I just can't use this damn 
editor.
:
:
From: broberts@wpi.WPI.EDU (broberts)
Newsgroups: ne.wanted
Subject: WANTED!! BOSTON CELTICS TICKETS!!
Date: 26 Dec 1992 15:10:36 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Distribution: ne
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu


	WANTED-------

	Two Boston Celtics Home Game Tickets for sometime in the month of
	January.

	Please respond to broberts@wpi.wpi.edu

	Thanks!!!


Newsgroups: ne.wanted
From: psm@cs.brown.edu (Phoebe Martone)
Subject: wanted - keyboard
Organization: Brown Computer Science Dept.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:32:26 GMT

wanted -

ibm/clone keyboard with Fkeys on left side, rather than on top.
From: mnovello@tri.com (Mike Novello)
Newsgroups: ne.wanted
Subject: IMMEDIATE NEED- KITTEN NEEDED
Summary: KITTEN NEEDED
Keywords: KITTEN
Date: 23 Dec 92 14:59:03 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The Registry Inc.  Wellesley, MA  02181

KITTEN NEEDED FOR CHRISTMAS GIFT. I NEED A REPLY ASAP 
(PREFERABLY BY 12/23/92.)

IF YOU HAVE A KITTEN OR KNOW ANYONE WITH KITTENS, PLEASE CONTACT ME AT 
617-237-9119.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| _ _ _              _ __             _  _     | The Registry Inc.      |
|' ) ) )   /        ' )  )           // //     | Fax (617)237-0723      |
| / / / o /_  _      /  / ___  . _  // // __   | Voice(617)237-9119     |
|/ ' (_<_/ <_</_    /  (_(_) \/_</_</_</_(_)   | email mnovello@tri.com |
|                                              |                        |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: ne.wanted
From: jdarnold@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Jonathan Arnold)
Subject: Borland OOP Tape(s)
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Distribution: ne
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 13:19:25 GMT

I was wondering if anyone had bought the Borland OOP VCR tapes/books
and was willing to either lend them, rent them, or sell them?  I'm
interested in the one on C++ programming and I think there is also one
on OOP programming in general.
 Thanks,

+=================================+================================+
| Jonathan Arnold                 |  Interleaf, Inc.               |
| jdarnold@ileaf.com              |  Prospect Place                |
| Home: (617)335-5457             |  9 Hillside Avenue             |
| Bus: (617)290-4990 x5489        |  Waltham, MA 02154             |
+=================================+================================+

Newsgroups: ne.wanted
From: scholl@uvmark.uucp (Kathryn Scholl)
Subject: Need a reputable watch cleaner
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 14:46:39 GMT
Organization: VMARK Software, Inc.


I have a 40 year old Longines watch that my dad gave to me, and
it needs a good cleaning.

Basically, I need the face cleaned, a new crystal over the face,
a nice watchband, and probably a tune-up or clean inside the watch
(whatever they do in there).

It seems to work fine now (windup).  I just want to restore it to
a nice-looking and clean watch.

If anyone knows of a reputable, respected, and trusted watch-repair
type who would take good care of the watch and do a good job, please
let me know.

I appreciate any info, and thanks,
Kathryn
-- 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 Kathryn Scholl  -- Above text reflects opinions of the author, not VMark --
 Vmark Software, Inc., 30 Speen Street, Framingham, MA  01701, USA
 Internet: uvmark!scholl@merk.com, UUCP: uunet!merk.com!uvmark!scholl
From: daniels_d@apollo.HP.COM
Newsgroups: ne.wanted
Subject: Distributors Wanted
Date: 22 Dec 92 19:18:50 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

QUORUM International, Ltd. is looking for several highly motivated
individuals to join our company in YOUR LOCAL AREA.  All requests
from anywhere in the US, Canada, and the UK considered.

                          COMPANY PROFILE
                Name : Quorum International Limited
    Date Established : June, 1991.
Principal Activities : Marketing and Distribution of Consumer Electronics
            Officers : President - Martin J. Matthews
                       Vice President Sales - Doug Ridley
                       Vice President Administration - Jerald Lewis

        Sales Volume : Gross Sales in US Dollars
                       1st Quarter 1991  -   .107 Million
                       2nd Quarter 1991  -  1.591 Million
                       3rd Quarter 1991  -  3.611 Million
                       4th Quarter 1991  -  6.691 Million
                       1st Quarter 1992  -  9.052 Million
                         Projected 1992  -  80 Million+

Quorum International's parent company is Applied Electronics, Ltd which
since 1975, has supplied some of the world's largest companies: Texas
Instruments, IBM, Philips Electronics, Intel, etc.

Join a company that has in just over one year shown incredible growth and
has earned its customers respect for quality and innovative products.
Quorum is a company with a diversified product line, experienced management,
heavy capitaliztion, and a generous compensation plan.  Since it is only now
starting in it's second year the opportunity for advancement is unmatched in
today's job market.  If you have the entrepreneural spirit DON'T PASS
UP THIS OPPORTUNITY!

No previous knowledge in electronics is required.

Serious inquiries only please.


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Daniels                           | 
daniels_d@apollo.hp.com                | "Life is a highway, I wan't  
Hewlett Packard, Inc.                  |  to ride it all night long...."
From: glazier@isr.harvard.edu (Andrew Baker Glazier)
Newsgroups: ne.wanted
Subject: Cheap joystick wanted for IBM
Date: 29 Dec 92 14:38:28 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

Wanted :
a cheap joystick for an XT machine, preferably with card. 
-- 
"A horse! A horse! Somebody give me a horse, man, because|glazier@ 
I come to bury this dirtball, not to praise him. Whaddya |harvard.isr.edu
think I am? Whether it's nobler for the mind to make people suffer with all
these totally outrageous arrows arrows for a fortune, or what!" -- D.R.
Xref: sparky ne.wanted:1631 rec.music.marketplace:2867
From: damir@coal.WPI.EDU (MR. Boy)
Newsgroups: ne.wanted,rec.music.marketplace
Subject: WANTED:  speakers
Date: 4 Jan 93 01:42:32 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: WPI
NNTP-Posting-Host: coal.wpi.edu

for a friend, reply to damir@wpi.wpi.edu

wanted,
	JBL or Infinity speakers, 
	NO MORE than 5 years old.
Xref: sparky ne.wanted:1614 ne.forsale:5613
From: churley@warren.med.harvard.edu (Carol Hurley)
Newsgroups: ne.wanted,ne.forsale
Subject: Need cheap futon & frame
Date: 30 Dec 92 15:48:39 GMT
Followup-To: ne.wanted
Organization: Harvard Medical School

I'm looking for a cheap futon and frame to use as a couch.  If anyone is
getting rid of one mail me the details.  Thanks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Carol Hurley
churley@warren.med.harvard.edu

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: betsys@cs.umb.edu (Elizabeth Schwartz)
Newsgroups: ne.wanted
Subject: Re: Looking for Boston/local college dialups
Date: 31 Dec 92 18:33:57 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston

You can *telnet* to some sample gophers. There's a whole list of them
in the internet resources guide. 
  You won't find anonymous DIALUPS anywhere on the net. Plagues of
hackers have forced them all to shut down. Sometimes you can dial up
some limited resource like a library catalog.
  
Betsy
Here's the gopher list from the last resource mailing:

From: yanoff@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Scott A. Yanoff)
Newsgroups: alt.internet.services,comp.misc,biz.comp.services,alt.bbs.internet,news.answers
Subject: Updated Internet Services List
Archive-name: internet-services

 -Gopher		telnet consultant.micro.umn.edu or telnet 134.84.132.4
			telnet panda.uiowa.edu or telnet 128.255.40.201
			telnet gdunix.gd.chalmers.se or 129.16.221.40 (SWEDISH)
			telnet gopher.uiuc.edu or telnet 128.174.33.160
		        telnet tolten.puc.cl or telnet 146.155.1.16 (CHILE)
		        telnet wsuaix.csc.wsu.edu  (Login: wsuinfo)
		        telnet gopher.ora.com or telnet 140.186.65.25
		       +telnet gopher.th-darmstadt.de or telnet 130.83.55.75
		       +telnet nstn.ns.ca or 137.186.128.11 (login: fred)
--
System Administrator                  Internet: betsys@cs.umb.edu
MACS Dept, UMass/Boston               Phone   : 617-287-6448
100 Morrissey Blvd                    Staccato signals
Boston, MA 02125-3393                      of constant information....
Newsgroups: ne.wanted,misc.wanted,rec.pets.cats,misc.forsale.wanted
From: helena@world.std.com (helena cragg)
Subject: Kitten(s) wanted!!
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution: ne
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 20:48:41 GMT

I'm looking for a kitten (maybe two) and can't find one anywhere in the
Boston area.  I would prefer to get one in order of preference (1) a shelter,
(2) an individual with a litter, or (3) a pet shop if I have to.

If you know where I can find one in the New England area (preferably Boston)
please contact me.

Thanx,
*Helena*

e-mail:  helena@world.std.com or helenac@ccmail.kenan.com
From: richb@jti.com (Richard Braun)
Newsgroups: ne.wanted
Subject: 16550 UARTs and highspeed modems
Date: 21 Dec 92 16:40:58 GMT
Organization: Jupiter Technology Inc. / Waltham, MA

A couple of months ago, I posted here looking for a used $200 V.32 modem.
Prices have fallen so fast, I'm glad I waited:  at Lechmere, they have
a $254.99 price on a Zoom 14.4K external modem, complete with fax and
terminal-emulator software.  (The Zoom is made in Boston, so I feel kinda
like I'm helping the local economy, and also feel confident that during
the 7-year [!] warranty period I'll be able to easily get ROM updates.)

To use the modem at its top speeds, though, I need a 16550 UART.  At the
Comp USA store (which is housed in the old Highland Superstore building in
Brighton), I got a rather blank expression when I asked several employees
for this chip.  By the way, Lechmere has generally better prices than
Comp USA, though not as much selection.

Is it possible to (a) find this chip locally, or preferably (b) buy an
inexpensive four-port serial board which contains these chips?  I have two
serial printers, a modem, and a terminal to hook up to my PC (which also
serves as a Linux test system).

-rich
Newsgroups: ne.wanted
From: klosp@rimail.interlan.com (Patrick Klos)
Subject: **** WANTED: NEC PowerMate 386/20 Memory board ****
Keywords: NEC POWERMATE MEMORY
Organization: Klos Technologies, Inc. (603) 424-0138
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:59:44 GMT


I am looking for the "special" memory board that goes in the leftmost slot
(when looking from front to back) of a NEC PowerMate 386/20 system.  I have
a system that is missing this board, and now it's totally unusable!  If
anyone has one they'd like to sell, or knows where I might be able to find
one, I'd appreciate hearing from them.

Sincerely,

Patrick
========================================================================
        Patrick Klos                 Internet: klosp@rimail.interlan.com
        Klos Technologies, Inc.      Compuserve: 71521,145
        (603) 424-0138
========================All opinions are my own!========================
From: davidc@das.harvard.edu (David Carter)
Newsgroups: ne.wanted
Subject: Wanted - cheap used PC or Mac
Date: 31 Dec 92 14:38:32 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Division of Applied Sciences, Harvard University


I'm posting this for a friend, so please don't reply to me directly.



Looking for an inexpensive used IBM PC or Macintosh (say 512KE or Plus)
basically as an alternative to a typewriter.


If you have an old computer, preferably with some word processing
software, that you'd like to part with, contact Patrick at
(617) 776-7924.
Newsgroups: ne.wanted