From: geddis@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Don Geddis)
Subject: Re: Speed scores (Rally Point Scoring)
Reply-To: Geddis@CS.Stanford.Edu
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: 30 Jul 92 21:23:09 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.135144.24285@awdprime.austin.ibm.com>, kaena@haleiwa.austin.ibm.com (The Crazy Hawaiian) writes:
> I disagree, rally scoring has GREAT effects on how you play and the final
> outcome of the game. 
> I tend to watch
> the way my team plays. If it takes us a LONG time between the scoring of
> points in the first two sets, I totally "cringe" when the rally point game
> comes around. However, if we are siding-out with regularity and putting the
> ball consistently down, I know we have a great chance of winning.

As mentioned, this group has been through this discussion before.  To add to
it, you should present _reasons_ why rally scoring _should_ change the way
you play.  Just because you alter your game in that situation means nothing.
As it turns out, you're making a mistake.

The only real effect of rally scoring is to shorten games.  This might have
an influence on strategy if, for example, you have some player that takes a
long time to warm up (i.e. plays poorly at the beginning of a game) but then
totally dominates at the end.  In a long (normal) game, you might have the
time to let him/her warm up, but in a short game (game to 11, or rally scored)
you can't afford the time.

No one has yet suggested a reason why you want to play any individual rally
differently, even though many, many players do change their games.

bobs@Think.COM ( Robert Schwartz) writes:
>I too feel that there is no doubt that rally scoring effects the outcome of a
>match (and usually a tournament for that matter).  I cant believe that anyone
>would argue differently.

Unfortunately for your claim, people do argue differently.

>If you look at the basic structure of the game of volleyball you will
>find it is unique in many ways.  The most important of which is the
>fact that you need to give the ball away (serve) to score a point.
>Therefore normally, no penalty (point to opposing team) is assesed for
>failing on an aggressive serve attempt or for beeing aggressive while
>the ball is in play during your serve.  To change this rule is to
>change the most fundamental aspect of the game.

No, the penalty for a failed serve is that you didn't give yourself the
opportunity to score a point.  If there's no penalty, then why not serve the
ball into the net each time?

As mentioned before, you'll make a choice like whether to serve aggressively
or not based on the likelihood that you can win the rally that way.  This
decision is unaffected by sideout vs rally scoring.

>What rally point scoring does is decide which team would be better if
>the rules were changed.

Except for team endurance (which would become less of a factor under _any_
game-shortening change, whether win at 11 or a game clock), those skills which
allow you to win a rally-scored game are exactly the same as those which let
you win sideout scored games.  You shouldn't play points any differently, so
the stronger team under normal rules should still win under the new scoring
system.

>If this system of rule changes for the sake of speed is really good
>that I think that we can expect to see the following rule changes in
>some other sports:
>Baseball: In the seventh game of a series; 2 strikes and youre out.
>Tennis:   Only one serve attempt during a tie breaker.
>Football: If the game is tied you only need 5 yards for a first down in OT.

You may be interested to know that the tie breaker in tennis was introduced
precisely to speed matches up, and came about because of increasing television
coverage.  Before that, you won sets by being up by two (or more) games.
(Many tennis tournaments revert to this system in the fifth set.)  I'm sure
they had these same discussions at the time, and decided that whoever won
the tie breaker probably would have won the extended set as well.

	-- Don Geddis
-- 
Don Geddis		"It's too bad that whole families have to be torn apart
Geddis@CS.Stanford.Edu	 by something as simple as wild dogs." -- DT on SNL
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