Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: Question about Libertarian Idealogy posted to sci.econ
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:44:26 EST
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.

In article <1992Sep14.150920.9404@spdc.ti.com>, burris@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Jim Burris) writes:
> In article <1992Sep13.223901.4088@desire.wright.edu> demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep12.011348.3455@leland.Stanford.EDU>, bohnert@leland.Stanford.EDU (matthew bohnert) writes:
>>> Hello to all...
>>> 
>>	Bureaucrats usually don't make good businessmen.
>>
>>	Actually, my views are pretty close to yours, I simply don't trust the
>>bureaucracy to do a good job.  Personally, I have no objections to government
> 
>    Actually, the "various" bureaucracies in this country are surprisingly good
> at what they are asked to do. Therin lies the problem. They are asked to do too
> much. They are given unsolvable problems. They are subject to political winds,
> which changes their mission every 2-4 years. They are underfunded and underpaid
> when compared to the private sector. And they are constantly hounded, blamed,
> chastised, and otherwise castigated by politicians needing a scapegoat, and by
> people with an anti-govt bias, neither of which back up their wild assertions
> with data. 

	Well....  I'm not going to lump all gov. agencies in the same boat.  To
a degree, the agencies most visible to the public (HUD, EPA, etc.) will do
better/worse depending on who is running them and to what degree the president
believes in their mission.
	However, for some of these agencies, their mission is to perpetuate
their existence, usually by perpetuating the problems.  And some agencies are
simply making the problems worse (EPA, for example).

	Now if we want to remove politics from agencies, why not privatize
them?  Let businesses contribute to an OSHA or EPA to be the watchdog.  Then
they can all advertize "approved by FOOBAR, so you know it's safe!". :)
	UL does a great job for consumer safety.  How about letting they are
another similar setup do the same thing for workplace safety?

>    The information I've seen in studying public administration in this country,
> from the federal system down to the township or school district, is that most
> of the customers these bureaus serve are satisfied that they've been treated
> fairly, within the context of the rules they must operate under. And, though it
> is difficult to compare, productivity of the public sector seems to approach
> that of the private sector.

	Satisfied is a relative thing, though.  Often people measure it by
comparing it to the worst-case scenario.  Am I getting *any* benefits?  If yes,
then at least it's better than nothing, etc.
	By taking one or two agencies and letting private concerns run the show
we'd have test cases to see if government is the best answer.

>    Politicians pass laws and regulations that are of dubious quality for
> electioneering purposes. Thus, eliminating special-interest campaign financing,
> imposing term limitations, holding politicians accountable for their actions,
> and limiting our expectations of government in general ("ask not..."), will
> improve the operation of our governments. Even a limited government needs the
> bureaucracy. Let's see: armed services; police and fire depts.; FDA; EPA; DOA;
> school supers/principals/teachers; forest rangers .......... These are all
> bureaucrats. The problem is their politically-appointed directors. Do you
> agree?

	(What the government needs to do:)
	Armed services, police, courts: yes.  FDA, no.  EPA, no.  DOA?  Public
land administration and schools: I don't think government should have the
monopoly in these cases.

	As far as the problems go, the directors may simply be a symptom of the
problem.  Since the Peter principle and political rewards seem to be the
primary method of advancement in government bureaucracies, the top will almost
always be composed of yes-men, incompetents, and people beholden to political
interests.
	But if promotions were based on results....

	The problems with government agencies extend beyond bad leadership. 
OSHA is apparently trying to see how little work they can actually do, the EPA
is more concerned with treating the symptoms of pollution rather than the
causes, the DEA and IRS are become feudal-style land grabbers, etc.

	We're giving government absolute power.  Are we surprised at the
results?

Brett                                                      
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