HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: Cannondale M700 or M800?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 13:43:10 GMT

In article <93023.195103JXA12@psuvm.psu.edu> <JXA12@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>Hello!
>I'm planning to buy a Cannondale M700 or M800 MTB. They are both the same
>price, have almost the same components, but there are some differences in
>the frame geometry: M700 is "conservative" and M800 "beast of the east" is
>more "radical". I don't have much more info about them.

i have a '92 M800.  about the only difference in componentry between it
and the M700 was that the M800 had smokes instead of ritchey megabites.
the main difference is, as you say, the frame geometry: the M800 has
a radically sloped top tube and a higher bottom bracket.  i don't
have the exact numbers, but the M800 looks somewhat like an overgrown
BMX bike with its geometry.  the seat tube is so short that they didn't
put water bottle bosses on it; instead, there is a second set of bosses
on the underside of the down tube.

i don't remember the exact numbers, but i believe the M800's bottom
bracket is about an inch higher than the M700's.  nice for technical
riding.  on the road, i can pedal on the bottoms of the pedals without
dragging toeclips at all - a bonus for city riding when you want to get
through the intersection quickly.  the sloping top tube is nice, too.
it's already saved me from some serious pain when i had to bail out.
the tradeoff is less stable handling compared with my friend's M700.
you take your pick.  i thought the higher bottom bracket was worth
the slightly decreased stability.

-teddy
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: geoffrey@jagger.Berkeley.EDU (Geoffrey Mayne)
Subject: What Causes Drag?
Reply-To: geoffrey@jagger.Berkeley.EDU (Geoffrey Mayne)
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:24:51 GMT

I was wondering, how much drag do certain parts
of the create.  I see these ads for wheels that
have 20% less drag than other wheels.  What
percentage drag is caused by the wheels?  

I know it depends on speed.  I am particularly
curious at speed in excess of 25 mph.

Always wondering,
Geoff
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: praetzel@maxwell.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel)
Subject: Re: Pinging noise
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:26:50 GMT

In article <727984935.AA00305@f262.n620.z3.fidonet.org> ben.elliston@p1.f262.n620.z3.fidonet.org (ben elliston) writes:
>Has anyone ever worked out what that pinging noise is when your weight is over a front wheel?  It sounds like spokes shifting.

The most common reason is the way the wheel was built.  When you build a
wheel it is possible to turn the nipple and the spoke at the same time.  If
the threads are not lubricated (and even if they were) then you can "wind up"
the whole spoke by turning it.
  When you shift weight onto the wheel you reduce the tension just enough to
allow the nipple to turn in the rim.  This is usually a stiction type of slip
so it slips and then grabs.  That makes a pinging noise.  It should go away
within 5 to 10 min. of riding.  If now then it could be one of the other
problems mentioned.  Either way do a simple squeeze test on your spokes to
check their tightness and take the wheel out and see if the bearings turn
freely.  Then lift the front of the bike and spin the wheel and see if it
spins freely.  Put the wheel back in and make sure that it does not have
any side play.  Just keep trying things until something does not seem right
and you should have your problem.  But most likely its the spokes.
  - Eric 

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: feng@cs.uiuc.edu (Wuchun Feng)
Subject: Re: Flat Tires
Reply-To: Wuchun Feng <feng@cs.uiuc.edu>
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:44:54 GMT

feng@cs.uiuc.edu (Wuchun Feng) writes:

>I recently bought a Bridgestone RB-1 with Continental Grand Prix 700x23c
>tires (instead of the Ritchey Road Force 700x28c).  In less than one mile of
>riding, I've managed to get two flats.  In the past, I used Grand Prix's on
>my old Cannondale R500 and never had a single flat (which was pretty amazing
>considering the amount of riding that I did).

>Anyone out there in net-land have any idea what I'm doing wrong?

>Background info:
>  The tires were inflated properly (115-120 psi) before they flatted.
>  The rims are Ritchey Vantage Comp, 32-hole (the ones that come with the bike)
>  The tube was Bridgestone (the ones that come with the bike).

>Please post responses or e-mail me at feng@cs.uiuc.edu

------------

Someone has brought it to my attention that I did not provide sufficient
background information.  Here is some more information:

  Instead of using the flimsy rubber rim strips that Bridgestone provided, 
    they were replaced with wide plastic rim strips after my first flat.
  I checked the rims and the tube very carefully for glass, burrs, etc.
    (anything sharp that may have caused the flat).  I couldn't find 
    anything.
  The tubes both had holes on the rim-side of the tube (rather than the
    tire-side).

Many people suggested that the flat was due to an inferior rim strip.
Based on the position of the holes in the tubes and the fact that I didn't
replace the inferior rim strips until after the first flat, it looks like
the problem was indeed the rim strips.  My second flat occurred right after
replacing the rim strips but was still probably due to the inferior rim
strips.  I left the bike sitting in my room, and the next day the front
tire was flat.  Boy, I feel dumb ... I should have thought of this.

Other suggestions included:  Ritchey Vantage Comp rims may be too wide
for 700x23c tires --- try 700x25c (or narrower rims).  Is this really a
problem?

Many gracious thanks to all who responded (and those who are still
responding).  I can't wait until I can ride my new bike more than a mile.
:-)

-Wu
-- 
Wuchun Feng // feng@cs.uiuc.edu // University of Illinois // Urbana, IL 61801
From: mack@risc.sps.mot.com (Gregg Mack)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: DX Rear Derailleur Adjustment Problem
Date: 22 Jan 1993 07:45:25 -0600
Organization: Motorola (Austin,TX)
NNTP-Posting-Host: ome.sps.mot.com

stork+@cs.cmu.edu (David Zabowski) writes:

>I recently replaced my chain and rear cassette on my DX equipped bike.
>I went from a 12-28 to a 13-30.  Now, I can't shift into the 30.

You may have to add two links to your chain.

-- 
Gregg Mack                  ---------- __o       __o       __o       __o
gmack@paceline.sps.mot.com  -------- _`\<,_    _`\<,_    _`\<,_    _`\<,_
Motorola RISC uProcessors   ------- (*)/ (*)  (*)/ (*)  (*)/ (*)  (*)/ (*)
Austin, Texas  USA          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: jdm@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM (Jim Moore)
Subject: Re: Selle Italia Flite saddle
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 18:03:57 GMT

jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt) writes:

>The Selle Italia Flite saddle is a rebirth of the swallow saddle of
>old.  You can find pictures of it in patent literature and old
>catalogs.  The swallow never got wide acceptance for the same
>reasons that the Flite and its derivatives will most likely fade
>away.  The Flite bottoms easily on the seat post and, as previous
>titanium products, has a tendency to break.  The principal savings
>in weight is that it has no cheeks.  The cheeks of a saddle are not
>there as a styling whim but serve a purpose during various bicycling
>maneuvers.  Rearward thrust is caught by the back of the leg against
>the curvature of the cheek and when climbing steeply on poor
>traction, the legs steady the bike laterally against the cheeks
>while the rider rises slightly above the saddle.

I think the Flite, like all products, has a range of usefulness measured
in several ways. I have one on both my road and mountain bikes and it 
is the best saddle I have found for me. I ride mostly on the road and
very rarely on poor traction. Maybe that is what I don't miss the cheeks.
I weigh 145 and have never bottomed the saddle on the seat post. But
the test for me is that I have never been able to ride long distance w/o
having to rest every couple of hours because my crotch was sore or numb.
Last year I did 6 100+ miles rides on my new Flite and never had a problem
with my crotch. I found that I move around alot on the narrow saddle from
sitting right on the nose hammering out a time trial to setting way back
on a long, seated climb. I won't say I can't do this with other saddles,
but I have had Avocet, Vetta and Turbo saddles that I have hated. I 
recently put the Flite on my MTB to replace a Vetta Gel that would kill
me after a 90 minutes. The Flite may not serve me as well there, and I
have heard complaints that it tears too easily to be on MTBs. At least
I am comfortable for now.

jim
From: chandler@wc.novell.com (Mark Chandler)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: LX DX XT XTR Confusion
Date: 21 Jan 93 17:49:02 GMT
Organization: Novell, Inc. - Walnut Creek

In article <30003@oasys.dt.navy.mil> mackinto@oasys.dt.navy.mil (David Mackintosh) writes:
>In rec.bicycles.tech, paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter) writes:
>>I think that CX is the hybrid-specific groupset (if my memory serves me
>>correctly).
>
>This is correct, but I wonder what the price is or whether parts will
>be available individually.  The CX crank is polished and looks almost
>as good as XTR.  The brakes are similar to LX but silver, much better
>looking.

The CX groups (400 & 700) are the only groups (so far, remember how
the double-pivot brakes were introduced on the lower lines) that
feature the down-sized chainrings (ala MicroDrive).  My guess is that
we'll see this trickle up/down to other groups in '94.

I'm nearly positive that the CX brakes are LX brakes w/a different
finish.  Of course, getting Shimano to admit this is pretty hard.

The CX stuff is quite nice.  The 700 group is being used on several
manufacturers' top-of-the-line hybrids.  _Crosswords_ is hoping to
test some 700-equipped bikes in the very near future.

>David Mackintosh


--
Mark Chandler              Novell, Inc.         510/975-4522
chandler@wc.novell.com     Walnut Creek, CA     AOL: Crosswords
===============================================================
   The opinions expressed above are mine, not my employer's.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: A10377@waccvm.corp.mot.com (Michael Duke)
Subject: LX DX Comparison
Organization: Motorola
Date: 21 Jan 1993 22:13:28 MST


>amc@crash.wpd.sgi.com (Allan McNaughton) writes:
>>The 1993 LX group uses many design tricks they learned when building te
>>XTR line.  Not as well finished or durable as XTR.  MBA likes it, I lie
>>it on my bike...

>You forgot to mention that LX is not as well finished or durable as DX r XT
>either.  Of course if you have an LX bike then thats a strong incentiveto
>defend it...
>-Terry
>--
>-Terry

It also means that he has had actual experience with LX. Claiming that
LX is less durable than DX is speculation. Only time will tell. As far
as dismissing LX because it is painted - big deal. Is the quality or
performance of your frame lessened because it is painted and might
chip if ridden hard? Of course, if you have a DX bike then that's a
strong incentive to defend it (and apparently criticize LX).
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: LX DX XT XTR Confusion
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:55:07 GMT

schwarz@nucleus.ps.uci.edu (Randy Schwarz) writes:

>Shimano did a confusing thing this year. they reorganized the groupos.
>in 92 LX sucked. This year the LX groupo is a nice set of components.
>according to MBA the LX groupo works as well as XTR, for a while... it 
>is not as durable as the XTR, but it is much cheaper.
>also, the DX groupo has either been not recommended or its production 
>stopped by shimano since you won't find this groupo on any new production
>bikes. DX used to be between LX and XT until this year, now there is no DX 
>in the 93 line.
>XT is still a good groupo, and XTR is the best that shimano makes and you
>pay for this too.
>randy

Boy is this wrong.  I just received my 1993 Bridgestone MB-3 which comes
with DX components.  DX has not been discontinued by any means.  It is offered
on a large number of 1993 bikes although the new LX is on more.  IMHO
DX beats the hell out of painted LX unless you really want Rapidfailure Plus.
Even then you can get that on DX if you must.
-Terry
-- 
-Terry
From: falcon@camelot.bradley.edu (D. Nathan Hood)
Subject: shimano 400ex question
Summary: what is the biggest rear cog i can use with this deralleur?
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 26 Jan 93 00:17:18 GMT

two summers ago i was riding _alot_ about 1000 miles in the three month
break and got into pretty good shape... well just after that i worked in a
bike shop (schwinn (RIP)) and was able to get any bicycle i wanted for 25%
below dealer cost direct from schwinn... well i fell in love with a black
Schwinn 434 alumunum racing bike... well i found i prefered the red so i
ordered one...  my old bike was a Raliegh 460 Aluminum (yes i do have
somthing for aluminum bicycles) but it was configured as a tourer with i
believe a 42/26 or 28 gear ratio for the lowest gear... well since then i
have slowed my riding alot and gone to school... i am now in Peoria Il in
the Illinois river valley... there are alot of hills... i was never very
good at hills to begin with (i am a _big_ guy) and have found them now near
impossible... i have lost some muscle from my legs as a result of my
cycling slowdown and find the lowest gear on the bike too high for my
tastes... is there anyway that i can find out the largest cog i can put on
the back to lower that gear and another question... for a 7 speed
hyper-glide cogset what are some reccomended cog sizes for hilly riding...
(i almost never get onto the big chainring except on major downhills, even
then i don't get much out of 7th or 8th gear) i know how to make the change
to the cog set i am just wondering what sizes i should order and what the
biggest i can go is..

thanks in advance and sorry about the rambling...

D. Nathan Hood
--
Your contribution went unnoticed some                  \             / /   
Association with an image                               \\\' ,      / //      
Just credit time for showing up again                    \\\//,   _/ //,      
Attention wandered i'm left with it                       \_-//' /  //<,      
                                                            \ ///  <//`         
To die unsung would really bring you down                   /  >>  \\\`__/_   
Although wet eyes would never suit you                     /,)-^>>\` , \\\   
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: rodrigul@ibg.colorado.edu (Larry Rodriguez)
Subject: Zefal fender hanger
Organization: IBG, University of Colorado, Boulder
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 05:15:17 GMT

I recently had my moutain bike stolen, and with the bike went the
fender hangers/hooks that are used to attach the newer style Mt Zefal
fenders (the kind that can be removed by unscwrewing them from the
hangers).  Well, I still have the fenders, but they are unusable,
unless I can replace the missing hangers with some new ones.  Does
anyone familiar with these fenders know if it is possible to buy
replacement hangers from Zefal, or some other source?  I'm trying to
avoid paying another $15, or so dollars for a complete new set.

Thanks for any information.

Larry Rodriguez
rodrigul@abacus.colorado.edu
From: cs92mjd@cen.ex.ac.uk (M.J.Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: LX DX XT XTR Confusion
Date: 22 Jan 93 13:25:31 GMT
	<C17trw.3s3@cs.uiuc.edu>
Organization: Computer Unit. - University of Exeter. UK

In article <C17trw.3s3@cs.uiuc.edu> tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) writes:

   >Boy is this wrong.  I just received my 1993 Bridgestone MB-3 which comes
   >with DX components.
   

Wow! I never knew Terry was thinking of getting a 1993 Bridgestone MB-3 with
DX components! Anyone hear about this before? 

:-) :-) :-) :-)

Sorry, Terry, couldn't resist it. btw, does anyone know of any plans to
distribute Bridgestones here in the UK? I think you used to be able to get
them, but I've never seen one in the metal. They look like good bikes with
reassuringly imaginative component spec's. I'm sure a lot of people here
would be interested.

Just a thought...


Mikey D
From: rafael@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Ralph Grundler)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: CBR Crank Removal
Date: 28 Jan 93 16:47:10 GMT
Distribution: rec.bicycles.tech
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

Kurt Cannon (cannon@virus.kyoto-u.ac.jp) wrote:
: I have a set of Cooks Bros. Racing cranks that came on my bike when I
: purchased it used at a swap meet last year.  The inner chainring is a
: 26 tooth and I'd like to switch to a 24.  The problem is that my trusty
: sugino crank arm extracting tool(the socket end) won't fit into the 
: recessed area, so I can't remove the crankbolts.  Are there tools avail-
: able with a smaller outside socket diameter and where do I find them?

Yes.  At a bike store or a catalog or buy a quality 14mm socket (snap-on).

Ralph Grundler
"If you get the same fortune twice in a chinese cookie is it true?"
From: cao@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Christopher Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: The Future of the Bike
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:51:23 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh

It's just a little thing.  What I want is a
little metal loop on the handlebars wide enough
for a security cable to go through.  Vandals
could still nick your gear changers (this is a
mountain bike here) and brake levers, but not
the stem and bar, and it'd take about a hundred
times longer than undoing the Z-bolt and
cutting the cables.  Sound bitter?  Hey, it's a
hard world out there, kids.  

Like I said, it's just a little thing.

Chris.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: sjlt@leland.Stanford.EDU (Sean Lev-Tov)
Subject: Re: Demise of wool winter jerseys?
Keywords: wool
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 01:51:13 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.050228.14695@ecsvax.uncecs.edu> mvolo@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Michael R. Volow) writes:
>high tech fabrics. But I sure would like to get a light colored, long
>sleeve wool jersey. Anyone know where?

I know a guy in Berkely, California who sells beautiful wool
cycling jerseys from Italy.  They have a zipper and buttoned
pockets in the rear.  Email me if you want his address and number.

Sean
sjlt@leland.stanford.edu
From: mack@risc.sps.mot.com (Gregg Mack)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Removing cranks
Date: 21 Jan 1993 20:44:37 -0600
Organization: Motorola (Austin,TX)
NNTP-Posting-Host: ome.sps.mot.com

Orakel@sarpih.no (Jens Kr. Kirkeb) writes:

>How to I remove a crank without destroying anything?  The crank fits on a 
>square, and is pressed on by tightening of a nut.  Now; to get it off, you 
>should presumably remove the nut, and then pull the crank off.  Doing this 
>seems to bend the (spokes?) that hold the chainrings.  Any tips anyone?

Go to your bike shop and buy a toll named a "crankarm extractor".
I see one in the new Colorado Cyclist catalog for US$7.99.

-- 
Gregg Mack                  ---------- __o       __o       __o       __o
gmack@paceline.sps.mot.com  -------- _`\<,_    _`\<,_    _`\<,_    _`\<,_
Motorola RISC uProcessors   ------- (*)/ (*)  (*)/ (*)  (*)/ (*)  (*)/ (*)
Austin, Texas  USA          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: wilsonrc@vax1.bham.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Pinging noise
Date: 26 Jan 93 09:43:37 GMT
Organization: University of Birmingham
NNTP-Posting-Host: vax3.bham.ac.uk

> Has anyone ever worked out what that pinging noise is when your weight is over a front wheel?  It sounds like spokes shifting.> 

Is this pinging noise that same creaking noise we hear from the straining 
handlebars ?

Or is it loose/over tightened spokes !!!

Worse still that unsolved mystery of the noise that won't go away !!

Try oiling the stem clamp, check for rust on steel bars - especially under
the stem clamp, better still ask around everyone has suffered at some time,
maybe some one has the answer.  I would sure like to know !

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: Dura Ace or 600?
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 02:10:22 GMT

garyb@gcm.com (Gary Blumenstein) writes:
>Well I'm trying to decice which gruppo to get for my new Marinoni
>frame and it's going to be either Shimano Dura Ace or 600 (with STI).
>My question:
>Is Dura Ace really worth the extra cost?  Several of my racing pals
>swear by 600 saying that it's much more cost effective.  Any thoughts?

Ultegra is just as light and performs as well as Dura-Ace.  I personally
don't think Dura-Ace is worth twice the cost of Ultegra.  Ultegra is not
as durable but Shimano is not known for being concerned about the
longevity of their groups.  To put it another way, within 3 or 4 years you
probably won't be able to get any parts for the current Dura-Ace.
-Terry
-- 
-Terry
From: casseres@apple.com (David Casseres)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Selle Italia Flite saddle
Date: 21 Jan 93 18:46:10 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.tech
Distribution: usa
Organization: Apple Computer Inc.

In article <llr3jtINNgls@news.bbn.com>, ekearns@bbn.com (Edward Joseph
Kearns) wrote:
> 
> fhuang@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (RECKLESS ABANDON) writes:
> >   I didn't pay much attention to the discussion about the Flite a coupla
> >months ago and I'm interested in purchasing a ti seat. What problems has
> >anyone had with the Flite and if so, what saddle would you recommend? 
> 
> >Frank
> >fhuang@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
> 
> It's the most comfortable saddle I've ever ridden.
> The only problem I have is that it's expensive to replace if/when
> you crash and rip the leather.

To be fair, some people have reported that it breaks; on the other hand
some other people, including me, have reported that it lasts for at least
thousands of miles.  I also find it the most comfortable saddle I've tried,
and I do lots of 50-100 mile rides and weigh between 180 and 190.

Mine squeaked a lot when it was new.  I applied Armor-All generously to the
points where the rails join the plastic, and after about the third time I
did this it quit squeaking.

--

David Casseres
Exclaimer: Hey!
From: ilh@lcs.mit.edu (Lee Hetherington)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: LX DX XT XTR Confusion
Date: 22 Jan 93 14:27:34
Organization: MIT/LCS Spoken Language Systems
Reply-To: ilh@lcs.mit.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: chicago.ai.mit.edu
In-reply-to: schwarz@nucleus.ps.uci.edu's message of 20 Jan 93 18:14:24 GMT

Sorry Terry, I got my attributions wrong.  You weren't the one that
came right out and said "92 LX sucked", but you were thinking it :-)
Here is the quote that I was thinking about:

In article <2B5D9680.3653@news.service.uci.edu>
schwarz@nucleus.ps.uci.edu (Randy Schwarz) writes:
   Shimano did a confusing thing this year. they reorganized the groupos.
   in 92 LX sucked. This year the LX groupo is a nice set of components....

We're all entitled to our opinions.  Me too.  I really hate it when
people are so negative about other people's equipment.  Why not "93 LX
is much improved over the 92 version" and leave the "sucks" out of it?

Enough of me being a baby...I need to get up on the right side of the
bed tomorrow.

--

                                Lee Hetherington
                                ilh@lcs.mit.edu