From: smithmc@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Lost Boy)
Subject: Re: just passing through on way to alt.real-men.grunt.thud ....
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 19:38:53 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.162323.21575@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu> conditt@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Paul Conditt) writes:
>In article <1992Dec18.041148.14307@watson.ibm.com> margoli@watson.IBM.com writes:
>>In <1992Dec17.211922.15114@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu> conditt@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Paul Conditt) writes:
>>>
>>>Believe it or not, we *all* have the right to choose what happens to our
>>>bodies.  The thing that we don't seem to be willing to accept is *when*
>>>that choice occurs.  The choice occurs *before* you have sex, not during
>>>and certainly not after.
>>
>>Yup.  And if you chose to not reproduce, by using birth control, then you
>>*have* made your choice.  And if the birth control fails, then it's certainly
>>a responsible decision to stick with your original choice.
>>--
>>Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
>
>Forgive me if I've misinterpreted your comment, but I'm not sure it 
>would be considered a responsible decision to abort a child just because
>birth control failed.  

That is obviously where we disagree.

>The fact is, if I'm engaging in sex, there is 
>*always* the possibility of a pregnancy.  That's the way our bodies were
>designed.  Just because I take every precaution possible doesn't mean
>that I shouldn't also take the responsibility for the possibility of 
>caring for a child that may come out of the act.  

The fact of the matter is that you *haven't* taken every precaution. If
a woman has sex, she most certainly  has the right to take all sorts of
contraceptive measures. If she gets pregnant because those measures fail,
she has a backup if she needs one. Abortion as a means of birth control 
may seem unsavory or immoral to some, but it is a fact of life and I have
a hard time seeing why it is immoral for most cases, where the fetus
is 6-9 weeks into gestation and is clearly incapable of higher brain 
function and therefore is incapable of having a soul.

>If I go bunji-jumping
>and take every safety precaution but the chord still breaks, is it my
>fault that I get splattered all over the ground?  I'd say yes, because in
>a sport like that, there's always the possibility of an accident.  

Are you sure? What if the manager of the jump facility was negligent in
his/her maintainence?

>All of
>our actions have consequences, and if we're not willing to deal with those
>consequences, we shouldn't put ourselves in situations where we'll have
>to deal with them.  So, I guess I would say the bottom line is, if you
>don't want the possibility of a child, then don't have sex.  

Agreed.

>If you do
>have sex, again in my opinion, you should be in a relationship where if
>a child does come along, it would be a good thing, overall.

Agreed.

However, these *are* the ideal situations. 
If the world were ideal - ie every child obeyed their parents, every parent
were understanding, nobody could die from childbirth, everyone in society
had enough to be secure, nobody got into weird relationships, and we weren't
all screaming at each other because we feel threatened - then we would
not need abortion, would we?

>  
>===============================================================================
>Paul Conditt		Internet: conditt@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu

Lost Boy

****************************************************************************
* Ideals are for Plato. I'm living in the real world. Give me a cigarette. *
*                                              -Cathy Regis                *
****************************************************************************

Newsgroups: talk.abortion