From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: pagan self-defense
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 21:46:02 GMT

In article <2AAD4490.10608@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>In article <eq0RqB5w165w@brewich.hou.tx.us> donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal) writes:

	[snip]	
>
>My SO the Magnificent Mikey and I were discussing this the other day,
>and we came to the conclusion that we couldn't come to a conclusion.
>You get a gun, a device that is capable of dropping someone like lead in
>a millisecond, and to keep it safe until you need it, you unload it and
>do all the safety things you've heard.  Then, when you need it, the gun
>is in your sock drawer buried and the ammo is out in the toolshed.

	Uh, pardon this interruption, but it sounds as if you are not
	terribly well versed in the keeping, jandling and use of fire
	arms.  You make them sound like tactical nuclear warheads that
	cannot be safely kept.  This is not true.  I keep my arms in the
	house and fully loaded at all times.  I have never had an accident,
	I have never almost had an accident and I intend on never having 
	one and am willing to be responsible enough to do what is needed
	to ensure that this remains true.

>
>However, you get the gun, load it and keep it handy, and one day a
>neighbor kid takes it out and wastes Junior with it.  Or perhaps Junior
>takes it out and wastes the neighbor kid, causing you to feel like slime
>for th erest of your life, as well as having a big nasty lawsuit to
>makes matters worse when the neighbors drag your ass in court as guilty
>of endangering their kid's life by leaving a loaded gun where kids could
>find it a play with it.

	This only happens when a gunowner does not take the proper
	precautions to ensure that kids cannot get their paws on the
	weapons.  Such precautions are not difficult to take, but they
	must be applied at all times, which means a person must act
	responsibly all the time and not only when it suits them.
>
>They are all one way or all the other
>-- you either keep them loaded and capable of killing 100% of the time
>or they are owrthless little hunks of cast-metal.

	Heavens to Murgatroyd, where on earth do you get this stuff?
	And I suppose Black people have tails too, eh?  I'm sorry,
	but you apparently have no sound knowledge of firearms to 
	speak of.  In your case I might agree that it is better that
	you do not keep a gun.
>
>There just isn't a resolution for this question, especially if you have
>kids in or around your house at any time.  

	Nonsense.  I grew up in a house that at any given time had several
	DOZENS of firearms, including scores of full automatic military
	arms.  I fiddled and played with these often.  There was ammo up
	the gazoo in the house and lots of gun powder and yet I never
	screwed around with any of these things.  I had been properly
	taught about them, I knew what they were and what they were capable
	of and that they were not toys.  The thought of playing games with
	these things never even crossed my mind.  I believe your statement
	is proven false.

>Many of these exchanges are taking place TOO quickly, due to the fact
>that sometimes -- and this is just too fucking bad for the NRA types --
		   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	And what, pray tell, is this supposed to mean?

>Guns are just too big a can
>of worms for anyone to take a concrete stand on whether they should be
>in the house or not. 

	Again, I think you need to educate yourself just a little bit
	better before you go making statements like this.  You do
	nothing for your credibility.
>
>>The Glazer's 
>>will not go thru walls, the hollow points will destroy anything they 
>>hit, and the 9mm Parabellum has more penetration than a .357 and will 
>>penetrate most brands of body armor, as well as stop the engine of a 
>>mack truck.

	Holy shit.  This too is a bunch of schlock.  People, please get
	a clue.
>
>>"An armed society is a polite society."

	Well, something I can agree with.
>
>Nope.  An armed society is one where people are blown away constantly --

	Hee hee hee...  that's rich... constantly bown away... hee hee hee...

>witness the good old U. S. of A.  An armed society is a murder-crazed
>one.  An armed society is a dangerous society.  An armed society is a
>psychotic society, needing only a small tip before it overturns and
>crushed you underneath.  An armed society is a deadly society.  

	My heavens... if you only knew how foolish you appear.  You
	are spouting off with all these hyperbolic and bombastic
	statements, all of which are so ridiculous that I'm not
	sure where I would start in on ridiculing them, so I guess I
	wont bother, but really, you should be horribly embarassed by
	this pitiful display of ignorance.  Pardon me.

>I'm sorry -- an armed society forces ME to be armed; it
>takes away MY freedom to remain unarmed.  

	And how exactly do you arrive at this profound conclusion?  You may
	go unarmed anywhere and any time you wish.  No one will twist your
	arm to carry a weapon.
	

>It's either that, or allow
>every man on the street the power to rape and murder me at will.  

	Man?  MAN?  What about the women?  My oh my, you're beginning to
	sound a bit paranoid...

	OK, let's say we disarm the whole world... no more guns anywhere.
	I can still rape or murder you any time I please and I can assure
	you that you will be quite helpless to stop me.  I know perhaps 
	several thousand ways to knock a person off.  I am a fairly able
	martial artist.  What will you do to stop me, especially when you
	never even see me coming?  This is a erious and non-rhetorical
	question.  What do you think you would do?

>I am not anti-gun; target shooting is fun as hell.  However, I
>fucking refuse to pick up a gun like that and keep it loaded and worry
>about intruders in my house constantly.  

	That is your choice.

>I will move somewhere else
>first; there are countries that are likely going to remain stable for my
>lifetime.  I will NOT live like that.  A knife, okay.  I have one.  BUt
>a gun is just too damned FINAL.  

	Pardon me, but I'll do one HELL of alot more damage to you with a 
	knife that I will with a gun.  I know just where to cut you so that
	you'll go down like a sack of potato's in neural paralysis.  A knife
	is, generally speaking, a substantially deadler weapon than a gun.
	The main advantage to the gun is effective range.  if I had to
	take may chance with one or the other, I'd probably opt to be shot.
	I've been stabbed and can tell you from first hand experience that
	it is at least every bit as bad as a gunshot.

>Pagans and Witches and other people on the right-wing's hit list who
>have kids are forced to remain at the mercy of the armed freaks around
>them.) 

	Who, exactly, are these armed freaks?  I trust you are not referring
	to me.
>

	Andy V.