HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: julian@frey.lbl.gov (julian cortella)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Diapers and the Environment
Date: 10 Nov 1992 17:05:00 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley CA USA
Reply-To: julian@frey.lbl.gov (julian cortella)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.81

In article <1816@pacvax.UUCP> lynne@pacersoft.com (Lynne Chantler) writes:
>Water is also a precious and limited resource.  The amount of pollution
>caused by detergents used in laundering the diapers.  The health risks
>associated with the use of cloth diapers when not laundered correctly or
>a dirty diaper pail.

With a diaper service, the newer, more efficient washing machines use
less water and less bleach than in manufacturing a disposable.  This
is according to all the diaper service literature (unreliable source)
and a couple of the baby mags I've been reading (Parenting, for one).

>
>If you use a diaper service, what about the pollution released into the
>environment from the delivery trucks?

What about the pollution from the trucks delivering diapers to the stores?

>
>The cost for infants is usually more expensive with a diaper service in
>the first few months, but then levels out.  If you use a diaper service
>for the entire time the child is in diapers, then the price averages out
>to be slightly cheaper than disposables.

Not by my comparisons.  I get 80 diapers a week delivered to me for
my poop-monster for $11.  I have seen disposables for close to this
price, but never as cheap.

>
>As you can see there is pollution, and waste of natural resources on both
>sides of the coin.  Neither cloth or disposable is a perfect solution.  

I agree here, but *I* feel there are better choices.  Yes, this
is an opinion.
>
>When all the factors are weighed, it will still boil down to convenience.
>
>Being a single mom with a 10 month old, and a full time job the last
>thing I need is 5 more loads of laundry or tracking down a delivery truck
>that failed to show up.  Besides most daycare facilities will only allow
>disposables for health and sanitation factors.

Not around here.  I don't use a daycare, but the few I've talked to all
accept cloth.  I've never had to track down a truck, and I've never
had to run to the store at 2:00 am because I forgot to buy diapers.
>
>No flames please I just wanted to point out the facts of the other side.
                                               ???^^^^???
I hope my opinions aren't considered flames.

>
>Lynne
From: kate_smith@next.com (Kate Smith)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: critical relatives
Date: 2 Nov 92 19:03:37 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <sew4SgS00iUyE4w1ca@andrew.cmu.edu> jm5p+@andrew.cmu.edu (Judi  
Mancuso) writes:
> Lindsay says-- 
> > 
> >Yesterday my father said, "You're such a fussy mother. You're
> >always fussing over him." (Him is my son, David, almost 9
> >months.) Then later he said, "Just let him exercise his lungs a
> >little." (Translation: let him cry and be unhappy --- ignore it,
> >so we can continue our converstion.)  I get similar vibes from
> >another family member --- my sister-in-law who doesn't have kids
> >--- that I'm paying too much attention to David. These comments
> >really bother me. 
> 

I'm a new mom too (my first child is 6 months).  I'd wondered often about  
the "let them cry" vs "attend to their every need" dilemma.  The thing  
that finally clinched it for me is that I've been told by a reputable  
source that there are new studies that show that children whose needs are  
met as infants are better behaved as toddlers.  I don't remember the  
details, but I suspect that they feel secure that their needs are being  
met so they don't need to act out.  It's nice to be able to recite this  
information when people say things like your relatives do.

Now, the problem is to know the difference between when they really need  
something and when they are just testing as they start getting older and  
more able to wrap you around their little fingers.

Kate Smith
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: kati@glnserv.UUCP (Lady Dragon)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Spanking other peoples Kids, NOT
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 15:59:19 CST
Organization: Vermi-net, Houston, Tx. 77098

clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:

> In article <25614@optima.cs.arizona.edu> bweiss@cs.arizona.edu (Beth Weiss) w
> >In article <1992Nov2.220612.13514@dptg.att.com>:
> >>now that we are one the alternative method of dicipline what do I do
> >>as an adoring auntie when my 2.5 year old nephew pops me one in the face??
> >
> >
> >1) If every greeting of this sorts results in him hitting you, find a
> >different way of greeting.  Perhaps he'd be more receptive to a kiss
> >at the end of your visit than at the beginning.
> >
>
>   I'd just go with this one.  I wouldn't ask for a kiss.  I think
>   maybe your nephew doesn't mean anything bad.  He's probably
>   seen the Hawaiian punch commercial.  To a rambunctious kid it
>   just seems like an obvious target when you offer your face.
>   Offer a hug, or if that doesn't work, shake his hand.

Just offhand, how often does your nephew see you? Is it possible that he does
not yet remember you from time to time? If this is so, he may feel defensive at
having a "stranger" come at him in such a familiar way.

* * email address: nuchat!xcluud!glnserv!kati * Houston, Texas, USA, Earth * *
From: floom@cco.caltech.edu (Laura E. Floom)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Date: 11 Nov 1992 21:09:31 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer) writes:

>In article <1992Nov10.001634.8940@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> lauraf@classy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Laura Floom) writes:
>>
>>                               .... YOu seem to think it odd that I wonder
>>where David Shackelford is coming from with these posts. I think it is 
>>important. 

>One of the problems I have noticed with this group is that we are long on
>memories of inflammatory posts and short on memories of supportive posts.
>Anyone who has been at the flame end of the net will understand what I mean.

I guess that is why it is so important to be careful what you are saying. If
David didnt want to come off sounding as he did, he shoudl have thought about
what he posted in his >23 posts. The net is an unusual media, and what people
write is the only way we can gauge where they are coming from. Perhaps you 
are more perfect then the rest of us, but if my first contact with someone is
particularly negative, it may take a while to get over that.  

>Alan Y has posted dozens of insightful, helpful, contributions to this net,
>but that one post about leaving his colicky daughter in the bathroom to keep
>himself sane has labelled him forever as a "child abuser" in the eyes of
>the net.  I have such a label from previous flame wars ("Christian bigot" would
>probably be the label, but I'd be guessing).  And now David Shackleford has
>gotten one.

Actually, I havent seen anything from Alan Y that would make me change my 
mind about him. Maybe someday he will. 

And as for you thinking we think of you as a christian bigot, well I have a 
very good memory of why you may have earned that label (since you were 
responding, in part, to things I was posting). Maybe you arent as narrow
minded as you sounded, but you wrote what you did. Maybe you should put a
disclaimer on all your posts not to take you seriously.

This reply from you really irks me.  You have posted other things like this
before that always seem to imply a conspiracy to attack certain people for
no good reason. You get flamed alot because you post alot and on lots of
controversial topics. You also post some good things occasionally.  Actually, 
I am always surprised when you complain about it because you seem os big on 
people taking personal responsiblity for thier actions. I think people ought 
to take personal repsonsibilty for what they post. If they are misinterpreted 
then they should try and explain better what they are saying, and not just dig 
themselves deeper. If they cant be understood by the net, then maybe it is time
to just lurk for a while or accept that people will disagree with them.

>Gee, I hope we treat our children better than we treat each other.

Cheap shot, Judy.

Laura Floom
From: petel@sequent.com (Pete Lancashire)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: punishment, kids vs parents (Was: Spanking...)
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:10:53 GMT
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.

kayvan@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Kayvan Sylvan) writes:

>		      PLAIN TALK ABOUT SPANKING
>			    by Jordan Riak

TO ALL PARENTS AND PARENTS TO BE.. PLEASE THAKE THE TIME TO READ
WHAT KAYVAN POSTED !!! PLEASE.

I guess it is my time to stop being a lurker and join this thread.
I'm not married or have ever fathered a child, but this summer became
a 'mentor' to a 14 year old boy, J. and in a small way, the same
to his 10 year old brother.

For you out there that don't feel that I or someone who
has not been a 'parent' in the classical sense is not 'qualified'
to comment, I'm sorry. For me, i did not desire for many
years to 'raise' a family because I would not want my kids
to go through what I did, thats another story.

For those that feel 1/2 a year does not count, I'm not saying I
know everyting, infact I feel I never will. But what I want to get
across is have an OPEN mind.

Not being an 'expert', I have (and stil am going) gone out and listened
to many people about kids, parents, 'experts', teachers, the state CSD,
etc. In fact I have gotten so involved that I will be going back
to school with the goal to help kids in some way. (Behavioral Sci, etc).

If you believe 'just a little spanking' does not do any harm, 
I reccomend (actually to all parents and parents to be), take some time
and go to center for runaway kids, or talk to a counsellor that
deals with kids, become a Big Brother or Big Sister, never take the
position that what you see and here could never happen to your kids.

For me the most disturbing is the kids that come from 'normal,
middle class loving families' there are a lot of them.

When you talk with (note I did not say to) these kids, and get them to
open up, you may be suprised what they have to say. Bringing up SPANKING 
gets some very interesting insite into some of their problems.

With J. all that spanking did was teach him to not respect his
male parents (father, now a step-father), and since his mother did
the old 'wait to your father get home', he has lost respect for
her. Over simplification, but one of his main problems.

Thats all for now,

-pete
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: xtkmg@trentu.ca (Kate Gregory)
Subject: Re: Big = Good?
Organization: Trent University, Ontario
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 02:17:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.232630.27479@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com> ishizaki@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (Audrey Ishizaki) writes:
>Hmm...  my son is about 1yr2mo old; at 13 months he weighed about 18lb13oz.
>He's also consistently weighed in at the 10-20%ile, his height has usually
>been in the 20-40%ile and his head at the 50-65%ile!
>
>I know of another "happa" (half asian, half caucasian) baby who has similar
>numbers.  I know that Clare's baby is also a "mixed" baby.  An anecdotal
>trend of big-headed (w.r.t. the rest of their measurements) babies?
>
>
Well, the only "half a loaf" I know had a 10% head while being about 5%
for weight and 25% for height, so I think she breaks the pattern. Beth
had a 90% head at least till she was two, when we stopped measuring
so obessively. You think those baby clothes are tough to get over
a 50% head... :-( actually there are things she never wore because
we literally could not get them over her head!

The thing is, if you compared Heather's 10% head to Beth's 90%,
the volume of their heads was about the same. It's just that Heather's
is largest from the top down around the chin and back up, while
Beth's is largest around the forehead which is what they measure for
head size. I think the only use for the measurement is if the
child drifts away from "their" percentile you know something has
happened to the underlying growth rate.

Kate
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: How Long in Bassinet?  was(Re: big = good?)
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 14:28:43 GMT


  I need to do some figuring out between transferring my son to
  a bed, moving, and a new baby.  What I'm wondering is how many
  months can a newborn baby sleep in a bassinet.  We want a bassinet
  so we can wheel the baby into my son's room (after my son is asleep)
  and wheel him/her out when needed.  A crib is a more permanent
  fixture and we don't want to get the baby his/her own crib until
  we get a bigger place, and/or my son gets his own bed.

  My son has been on the small side.  He is only 25 lbs, at 21-months.
  I would be happy if I could keep the baby in a bassinet for 3-4
  months because that would mean that we can buy my son a new bed
  after we move.

  Any experience with bassinets and how they work?

  Thanks, Clare
  clare@nynexst.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: amy@hubcap.clemson.edu (Amy Slankard)
Subject: Re: How to help the "oops" of a family...
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:10:59 GMT

bets@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Beth Schwindt) writes:

>Now, on to my question...

>Billy and Jo pick on Em all the time about not being planned.  Jo was
>planned for a year earlier than she appeared.  Also, Em appeared about 
>the time the family began having financial problems, so Billy blames her
>for those (Jo doesn't know about that).  

>Any suggestions on how to help Em deal with the constant teasing, and how
>to help convince Billy and Jo that their sister isn't a ready-made
>verbal punching bag and that she does have feelings?

>Beth

[some of original post deleted...]

I don't have any suggestions but I do have a story to shed a little 
humor on the issue.  My father and step-mother between them have seven
children.  My father had four (including me) from his marriage to my 
mother and my step-mother brought two sons to our family, then they
had a daughter together (my half-sister).  

At a family gathering several years ago my father mentioned that the
oldest six were all "birth control failures".  (Yeah, my father and
step-mother are the king and queen of insensitive comments.  Depending
on how I feel about them on any given day, I don't know whether it's 
because they just put things insensitively or they are really that 
way.)  So my teenage half-sister is the only "planned" child.  Being
the precosious (sp?), obnoxious teenager that she can be at times
she started saying less than nice things about this little fact.  

My response was "Well, maybe Dad and Sandra wanted you but God wanted us
to be born."  My other sister (late twenties) responded "Oh no, you mean I'm
failing God too." 

Amy Slankard
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 15:40:28 CST
From: Sheryl Bloom <U32667@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: grandpa in hospital

I have seen lots of advice in the net on dealing with the death of relatives, b
ut is there an FAQ file or someone with wisdom on dealing with ill grandparents
.  My 81 year-old father, who is very close to my daughter (Arielle aged 3.5),
is in the hospital for his fifth heart procedure in 2 years.  He's probably goi
ng to be in the hospital for a while, and I want to know if it will help or hur
t to bring her there to see him...all the tubes, monitors, etc...will they scar
e her to death or help her understand that grandpa is sick but (hopefully) gett
ing better?  Thanks in advance
Sheryl Bloom, University of Illinois at Chicago
U32667@uicvm.uic.edu
From: gbk@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (g.b.karlovsky)
Subject: Re: It's a boy!  It's a boy!
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:54:38 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.213636.5189@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> cma@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (christine.m.dakes) writes:
>> Twin 'A', Noam Yefet, arrived at 6:43am weighing in at 6 lbs 15oz.
>> Twin 'B', Tal Yair, arrived at 6:56am weighing in at 7 lbs 5oz.
>
>Congrats and best wishes!!
>
>> I expect this to be a real boost to my thesis productivity as I now
>> have a rocking chair in front of my keyboard and can work on my thesis
>> at 3am while I rock the babies.  All I need are two extra arms.
>
>My thesis is due by 3/1/93, and our baby is due 1/19/93.  so I expect
>the same "thesis productivity", maybe even worse since I'll be
>breastfeeding.  But being out of work on maternity leave should(?)
>help.  Can you say "vehemently work on my thesis over xmas break?"
>At least all my classes are over 11/23....
>Good luck with the thesis and the boys!
>
>Christine
>first-time-mom-2-b 1/19/93
>

Just wanted the two of you to know that I was due 4/20/90, and delivered
(via c-section) on 4/30/90.  I had an outline by 10/90, started working full
time in 6/91, and didn't deposit my thesis until 8/92.  I wish you both more 
and quicker success than I had...  but I still finished it :-)



	***********************************************************
	*							  *
	*   Gail Karlovsky	(gail.karlovsky@att.com)	  *
	*        		(mom to Adrienne - born 4/30/90)  *
	*							  *
	*							  *
	*   The ideas expressed here are mine and do not 	  *
	*   reflect the opinions of my employer.		  *
	*							  *
	***********************************************************



Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: barb@sq.sq.com (Barbara Burrows)
Subject: Re: Need help with breastfeeding summary & thanks
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, Canada
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 15:13:55 GMT

In article <209180004@hpcuhc.cup.hp.com> janeth@hpcuhc.cup.hp.com (Janet Helmbolt) writes:
>With all due sympathy to the mother who would like to continue nursing but
>her 10 month old will not have any part of it anymore, you may have to face
>the fact that in your previous life you were not a jersey cow.  Some women
>are super nursers and other just are not that way.  It should not reflect 
>on you in any way shape or form.  My son gave up nursing at six months and
>that was that.  Not much I could do about it.  He knew what he wanted much
>better than I did and I had to respect that decision.  Your son knows what
>he wants.  It sounds like he is healthy and happy and that is what is 
>important.  There are plenty of other ways to be close to your child without
>doing the nursing thing as I am sure you will find out.  Take solace that
>you got to nurse this long, I know women who could not do it for more than
>a month. 
>
>jrh
>

	This is quite similar to my situation too.  At about six months
	Jordan was weaned quite easily and with no trouble (I worried
	before about engorgement and pain having listened to lots of
	horror stories about same).  Part of the reason, I think, is 
	because I had returned to work full-time and was probably 
	producing less and less milk.  Initially, I pumped....then
	didn't have enough to pump....then was down to overnight feedings
	only....and finally, just after he was six months old (and had
	bitten me heartily) I decided I really was only prolonging this
	for me...  He was doing fine with his formula supplements.  I
	really felt awful about giving up breastfeeding...something only
	I could do for him, you know....and so warm and close feeling.
	And I did a real number on myself....this will be the last time
	I nurse my baby....or any baby....ever again.  Will he think I
	abandoned him....will he feel deprived....maybe I shouldn't...
	maybe I should cut down my hours at work and build my supply
	back up.....maybe he won't be as healthy (most of the health
	books say they get the most benefit in the first few months)...
	and on and on.  In the end, he sort of decided himself.
	
	And, I agree with the writer above.  There are plenty of other
	ways to be close to your child.  In fact, I was just commenting
	on that a few nights ago.  We now have something of a ritual
	with the last bottle of the day.  We get a pillow and a 
	blanket (Mom and Dad watch the news), lights are dimmed and
	Mom lies down with baby tucked in beside her.  It's very cosy
	and calm and close and is now one of my favorite times of the day.

						
					|
					|  I know you are
	Barbara				|   but what am I?				
					|
					|      - Whatever happened to
					|        Pee Wee anyway?
					|


Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mhn@cs.brown.edu (Marian H. Nodine)
Subject: Re: Flames about Spanking
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 16:33:03 GMT

In article <LOWRY.92Nov5151750@rotor.watson.ibm.com> lowry@watson.ibm.com (Andy Lowry) writes:
(Concerning the spanking discussion ...

...
> - Poster #3 says childproofing by itself isn't adequate because ...
> - Poster #4 says the child shouldn't be punished and
>   (tongue-in-cheek) that the husband should be, etc,

Being Poster #3, I do want to point out to the group that poster #4
and I have since had a constructive email exchange, and that he has
apologized for any misunderstandings I may have had with respect to 
his post.

-- Misty
From: shack@cs.arizona.edu (David Shackelford)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 20/20 SPANKING COMPLAINT
Date: 8 Nov 92 07:07:56 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <00720919386@elgamy.uucp.taronga.com> elg@elgamy.uucp.taronga.com (Eric Lee Green) writes:
>From article <25765@optima.cs.arizona.edu>, by shack@cs.arizona.edu (David Shackelford):
 >> SOME kids don't respond to anything else but a spanking.  It is imperative
 >> that kids obey.  Therefore if spanking is the only thing that works for
                             ^^^^^^  NOTE CONDITIONAL
    
 >> that child, then it is imperative that you spank.
    ^^^^^^ NOTE MODIFIER

 >
 >This argument that "spanking is the only thing that works" is bogus.

I respect your opinion and experience (deleted because they are not
related to this response, to save a few K of transmission).

See my two notes, marked with ^^^?  I am saying that if there exists
a child and behavior situation for which spanking is the only thing
that works in that situation with that child, then spanking should
be used.  I did not say "spanking is the only thing that works"
(which means logically "for all children, spanking is the only
thing that works in all situations").  This is trivially false,
and I would never try to propose it, much less argue it.

Given that the proposition of my statement can be neither proven true
nor proven false, it follows that spanking might be necessary in some
circumstance, which is the crux of my position.  If you can prove it
wrong (IE spanking is NEVER necessary) please go ahead.  Remember that
proving non-existence requires examination of every member of the
universe set -- a time consuming task [more time than you'll ever have
since the universe set is dynamically changing].

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: sgauch@ccs.northeastern.edu (Susan Gauch)
Subject: Re: What does it mean when it's WHITE?
Organization: College of CS, Northeastern U
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:01:21 GMT

>kvt@willow.mitre.org writes:
>
>> her daughter
>>had a BM that resulted in an almost floresent
>>green color. 
>
>>Any info would be greatly appreciated.
>
It can mean an upset to the digestive system.  When I was breastfeeding Laura
and ate a whole bag of potato chips she had a vibrant green stool.
The sins of the mother being vested on the daughter...
-- 
Susan Gauch
sgauch@flora.ccs.northeastern.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids