HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: har@ux.acs.umn.edu (--SeebS--)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  The Under $10K Unix Workstation!
Date: 6 Apr 92 19:56:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: ux.1992Apr6.195658.9992
Organization: University of Minnesota

In article <1992Apr6.114450.22359@nic.unh.edu> pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro) writes:
>I thought Solaris was supposed to cost $795 for the basic version
>(that may be with a limited user license, though - I'm not sure)?  The
>neat thing about Solaris 2.0 is that it comes with all the C libraries
>and header files, so you can go out and grab a GCC binary and have a
>compiler for free without having to buy the devlopment kit just to get
>the libraries.

See? "Buy the development kit." When you buy amiga unix, at least you
get the whole damn thing - gcc, g++, header files, libraries, even the
damn kernel object modules - ALL of it. No screwing around with developer's
packages, etc. etc.

Why should you have to grab a binary? I've only ever *considered* buying
one computer that didn't come with a C compiler - and I made sure I ordered
the C compiler when I ordered the computer.

>I think it's more a function of volume.  A UNIX license costs, what,
>$100K or so?  That's not a lot of money for a large company.  IBM
>spent hundreds of millions on OS/2 2.0 (maybe billions), and you can
>buy a copy for $49 (Windows upgrade price).

Sure, but they're looking to get a captive market for upgrades, not to
make their investment back.

>I don't see why there couldn't be a good UNIX package for $200 or less
>(for any theoretical machine for which sufficient demand exists).  Or
>does AT&T charge a per-copy royalty?  That might be a problem.

I believe there is a per-copy royalty dependant on the license; thus
the added cost of unlimited user licenses.

>Paul
>Paul Secinaro            | Synthetic Vision and Pattern Analysis Lab
>pss1@kepler.unh.edu      | Dept. of Computer and Electrical Engineering
>p_secinaro@unhh.unh.edu  | University of New Hampshire

-s
-- 
Peter Seebach, using my fiancee's acount. (Please use "SEEBS" in the subject
line, so we know who it's for.)  Polygamy: "There can be more than one."
"I love using MS-DOS - waiting for the machine gives me so much free time!"
har@ux.acs.umn.edu (Love Incarnate)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: Archimedes?
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 05:52:50 GMT

In article <torrie.702874384@Xenon.Stanford.EDU> torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) writes:
[ ]
>
>  The Archimedes is certainly sold through ordinary dealers in NZ
>and Australia.  I believe you can even get it in Canada if you 
>look hard enough... It's just here in the U.S. that it's never been
>seen.

It's not hiding. In Canada you just call Olivetti. It's a neat computer.

philip
philip@utstat.toronto.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Subject: Re: Considering switching to IBM
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 02:36:52 GMT

> 
> >I thought OS/2 2.0 will only work on a 386/486 ?
> >The PS/1 is a 80286-10 with 1 waitstate. Do you want to run OS/2 on
> >such a slow processor ?
> >
> 
> OS/2 2.0 does require at least a 386SX CPU.  IBM will bundle OS/2 2.0
> with its *new* PS/1's, which have the 386SX.  As far as I know, the original
> 286 PS/1's have been discontinued.
> 
> >
> >Gerrit
> >
> --
> +-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
> | Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
> | Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
> |    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
> +-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
> |           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
> |                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
> +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

	I think I read something in Computer Shopper about IBM licensing out
  Geoworks for there low end machines.  It might have said IBM was just looking
  into it though.  Still, not a bad idea.

							G.Greene
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: 040 and 486 and nap42487 knows nothing about CPUs.
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 18:15:05 GMT

jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
: If you had taken a "deeper look into the messages of someone and not read
: what you want to read" (tm), you would have known that I have no Intel bias,
: just an anti-bullsh*t bias.

Aww, if that were true, your head would blow up.  :)

Greg
-- 
"Walking in London, and you are watching me walk,      gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
 Talking Italian, and you are watching me talk,            Gregory R Block
 Singing in Sydney, and you are sitting right there,
 Feeling you with me, everywhere, everywhere."  -Concrete Blonde
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.games
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: Considering switching to IBM
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 05:25:58 GMT

ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
>>    And look at the speed comparisons of a A3000 w/68040 to a 486.. The 40
>> wins.. But as stated above, with the Amiga, its not JUST the processor that
>> does all the work...
>
>	Plus the 486 system is a heck of a lot less expensive then an 040
>  based A3000. 

If you are going to get an 040 board, you might as well get an A2000.  This
is much cheaper, plus it can use a Video Toaster.

-- Gerald
From: tron1@tronsbox.UUCP (Kenneth Jamieson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Apple problems "Home computer"
Date: 8 Apr 92 12:43:54 GMT
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises Inc.

In article <1992Apr6.191733.712@maths.tcd.ie> mike@maths.tcd.ie (Mike Rogers) writes:
>
>Does the name Osbourne mean anything to you? 

	There is a difference in the business cases here.

>
>Seriously though, suppose tomorrow C= were to announce the Amiga Plus line, say
>030/040 based, varying configuration. Say they came with (hypothetical) AA 
>32bit chipset giving 4 channel 16bit voice, 8bit hires and 24bit super HAM
>graphics. Now, imagine how many 'old' Amigas they'd sell in the interim...
>It was enough to sink Osbourne, it'd hurt C= badly.

	They would sell MORE of them IMHO. You see, the new "high end"
machines would not effect the customer base for the 600 and so on, but
would give confidence to those people that there will BE a high end.

	Debacles like the 3000UX are not helping either.



-- 

+--[ Xanadu Enterprises Inc. Lingerie, Consulting, RPG's and ANIME ]-+.sign
|  Please send email for detailed product or catalogue information!  |ature
|             Ken Jamieson: uunet!tronsbox.xei.com!tron1             |Virus
|---NONE of the opinions represented here are endorsed by anybody!---|V3.2
|              Original contents are Copyright (c)1992               |1992!
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: justin@mik.uky.edu (Justin Sullivan)
Subject: Re: Mac OS just sucks -- "ease of use" = "lack of freedom"
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 13:07:04 GMT
X-Bytes: 

Rob Healey writes
 
> 	TrueType is a marketing scam, PostScript Type 1 is the only real
> 	scalable standard and it has probably been pointed out before than
> 	the scaler used in AmigaDOS does not preclude the use of Postscript
> 	as the font technology.

TrueType is technically superior to PostScript Type 1. It defines 30-some  
points per letter, whereas PS Type 1 defines about 17. The difference in  
quality is noticeable, particularly at smaller point sizes. Small PostScript  
fonts (about 8 or 9 point and below) don't print very well, even on  
high-resolution output devices. TrueType allows for 3D fonts I'm not mistaken..  
That's just on of the perks, even though everyone knows it will never replace  
PostScript Type 1.

--
*******************************************************************************
* "Imagine sky.. High above, in Caribbean Blue.." <sigh>                      *
* The University of Kentucky doesn't pay well enough to share my opinions.    *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: *** ULTIMATE BASHING for PeeCee Users
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 17:49:30 GMT

jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
: Cool.  I have another question.  Imagine you're running ADOS 2.0x.  Imagine

I'm imagining.  ;)

: you've got several LARGE apps (each at least 800K) in memory, each using

Let's say three.

: lots of scalable fonts, graphics, images, etc.  How much memory do you

Okay...  but remember, the scalable fonts aren't kept in memory.  Just
the bitmaps...  Graphics and images in chip... usually.

: need to keep such a system running?  512K?  1MB?  I don't think so.

That depends, doesn't it?  You say SEVERAL 800K apps.  That'll equal
over a meg there.  Of course, find several 800k apps to run...  ;)
And?  I'd guess, including chip, what you'd wanted could be done in
3-5 meg without heavy trouble, depending on size of data (font
bitmaps, graphics images, etc).  However, your space is there, taken
up by your PROGRAMS, not your OS.  How much memory would you need to
fit all of the above (or EVEN THE APPS, without the data) into OS/2?

I think it's a fair comparison...  Somewhat.  Though it's not.  I
imagine VM and MP could be done in a relatively small amount of code,
if there weren't certain things involved--mainly message passing.  And
I wouldn't give up the way the Amiga message-passes for MP.

: Does OS-9 have a GUI with a device-independent graphics engine consisting of
: several hundred calls?  How about a windowing library?

Points taken, but if you take the 160K or so of code that OS/9 uses
for MP, and were to throw it into an Amiga system (rewriting the code,
of course), let's say it's 200 then.  200k more than what is currently
taken is still lots less than OS/2, do you see?  And VM is a LOT
easier to implement than MP.

And we're still not up to OS/2.

: OS-9 doesn't require several megabytes.  Neither does OS/2, if all you
: want to do is multitask non-GUI apps.

I'm not saying that OS/2 is bad, just inefficient.  As are quite a few
OSes.  AmigaDos, OS/9, and lots of others are just fine...  Even the
mac is getting closer to being efficient.  Half an OS isn't efficient.
;)  (excuse the pun, but it makes a nice ending)

Greg
-- 
 __________________________________________________________________________
|				     The Chesterfield Electronic Towel (TM)|
|gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu                    Don't leave Krikkit without it!|
|__________________________________________________________________________|
From: kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Apple problems "Home computer"
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:59:35 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

peterk@public.sub.org (Peter Kittel) writes:
>tron1@tronsbox.UUCP (Kenneth Jamieson) writes:
>>	I realize that C= can't commit to a delivery date, but I think
>>many of us need some info on what is ON IT'S WAY - and what is
>>POSSIBLY on the way etc so we can decide on out future plans.
>
> [...]
>Murphy's law: As long as you don't announce a product, all works flawlessly.
>The minute you tell the world a single word about it, everything fails
>miserably.

This is a very true rule!   I like it :-)

So... the answer is to not announce what you're planning on selling, but
instead get into the habit of constantly showing off "dream technology".
That is, do like Apple and give public demonstrations of things that may
(or may not) be coming.  Or of things in R&D.  Or just talk about raw ideas.

Once people are used to this, it won't hurt current sales (Osborne syndrome),
but rather will build up confidence that the company is thinking ahead...
whether any of it actually is sold or not really doesn't matter ;-)
Kind of like auto companies showing off futuristic dream cars.

just thinking aloud - kev <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: What to do about CBM
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:06:33 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Amiga makes it possible
X-NewsSoftware: Amiga GRn V1.28 2/25/92 (Beta) by Mike Schwartz

Since I posted my article about how CBM is a game company, many people
have written to me to ask what we can do about it.  Seems everyone, like
me, is interested in seeing CBM keep up with the rest of the computer
systems in its class.  Here's what I suggest is THE best policy.


BOYCOTT any new CBM computer systems (at the high end) until they come
to their senses.  The problem does NOT lie with the engineers at CBM -
they are all fine.  The problem lies with the marketing, as MB has always
reminded us.

A boycott of a new $5000+ Amiga system is certain to have impact where it
hurts CBM management the most - in the wallet.  In the past, CBM has had
fire sales on computer systems they couldn't move.  This will end up driving
the prices on their high-end machines down to reality.  CBM historically
cuts the prices on those machine that don't sell well.  When the machines get
to be a good value, they start selling.

If people keep accepting the low-end stuff stuffed into a high-end package
with unfulfilled potential, that's all we're going to get.

If it doesn't do RTG, don't buy it.  If it costs too much, don't buy it.
If it doesn't do VM, don't buy it.  If it doesn't do memory protection,
don't buy it.  The secret is to hit them in the wallet.

--
Author of Amiga GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle,
and Genesis Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024
From: daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: New Amigas, A Proposal Re: New Amigs, Finally
Date: 7 Apr 92 00:37:03 GMT
Reply-To: daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <itocddg@fido.asd.sgi.com> schaem@sgi.com (greg schaem) writes:
>In article <29846@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes:

>I see 25mhz 020 for 30$... 68030+6882 25mhz combo for 600$...

You're way, way, way, way off on that figure.  Looking in the Motorola price 
book I just happen to keep handy, you get a CQFP 68030 at 25MHz, quantity one,
for $144.00, and the PLCC 68882 at 25MHz for $64.21, quantity one, for a 
total of $208.21.  The PQFP 68020 is listed at $52.99, quantity one.  So that's
less than a factor of four difference, not the factor of twenty you imply, 
assuming you bought these one at a time.  I assure you, C= doesn't buy anything
one at a time, so the cost differential will be significantly less.
-- 
Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests"
   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh      BIX: hazy
 "I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused" - Elvis Costello
 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: tron1@tronsbox.UUCP (Kenneth Jamieson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: AppleEvents, how to they work?
Date: 10 Apr 92 13:05:08 GMT
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises Inc.

In article <torrie.702873897@Xenon.Stanford.EDU> torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) writes:
>
>  Wouldn't it be better to standardise messages between applications?
>I think if you really want to get lots of people using/writing scripts
>(rather than just privileged programmers), the messages between apps
>should be as consistent as possible.

	Very true.


>  I read in another message that there is some standardisation in the
>style guide, but how far is this taken?  Are there standards
>for things like word processors (e.g. changeFont message), spreadsheets, 
>spelling checkers etc?

	No - it was not very complete in that manner.


-- 

+--[ Xanadu Enterprises Inc. Lingerie, Consulting, RPG's and ANIME ]-+.sign
|  Please send email for detailed product or catalogue information!  |ature
|             Ken Jamieson: uunet!tronsbox.xei.com!tron1             |Virus
|---NONE of the opinions represented here are endorsed by anybody!---|V3.2
|              Original contents are Copyright (c)1992               |1992!
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro)
Subject: Re:  The Under $10K Unix Workstation!
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 11:44:50 GMT

In article <p9ztbrc@rpi.edu> borres@aix.rpi.edu (Steven D. Borrelli) writes:
>>Steve Jobs seems to like it that way.  NeXTStep for 486 clones is going to
>>be about $2500 dollars.
>>
>It's going to be $1000 for the basic version and $2500 for the developer
>version. That's about the same price as Solaris. 

I thought Solaris was supposed to cost $795 for the basic version
(that may be with a limited user license, though - I'm not sure)?  The
neat thing about Solaris 2.0 is that it comes with all the C libraries
and header files, so you can go out and grab a GCC binary and have a
compiler for free without having to buy the devlopment kit just to get
the libraries.


>
>After paying lic. fees to AT&T and Adobe, UNIX is going to be expensive. 
>Price Commodore's UNIX offering or any other one (like AU/X).
>


I think it's more a function of volume.  A UNIX license costs, what,
$100K or so?  That's not a lot of money for a large company.  IBM
spent hundreds of millions on OS/2 2.0 (maybe billions), and you can
buy a copy for $49 (Windows upgrade price).

I don't see why there couldn't be a good UNIX package for $200 or less
(for any theoretical machine for which sufficient demand exists).  Or
does AT&T charge a per-copy royalty?  That might be a problem.

Paul

-- 
Paul Secinaro            | Synthetic Vision and Pattern Analysis Lab
pss1@kepler.unh.edu      | Dept. of Computer and Electrical Engineering
p_secinaro@unhh.unh.edu  | University of New Hampshire
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: sck@watson.ibm.com (Scott C. Kennedy)
Subject: Re: "Room" for Windows
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1992 19:10:55 GMT
Distribution: na
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
Keywords: Xerox brings multitasking to Windows

In article <1992Apr6.144908.27235@clipper.ingr.com>, kontos@clipper.ingr.com (Thorne Kontos) writes:
|> Peanut #2: If Commodore has any patents/copyrights to multitasking
|>            then perhaps now is the time to fire up the big
|>            lawyers, and go for the jugular vein. (Or at least
|>            license it out for an enormously fat fee. Perhaps
|>            then we will see all those things the posters on
|>            .advocacy dream about come true.)

I'm afraid that Commodore doesn't own any patents or copyrights to the idea of
pre-emptive multi-tasking, but they were the first company to successfully sell
a low-end multi-tasking machine. For examples of other multi-tasking boxes, look
at Mutlics, Unix, OS/9, VM, MVS, VMS, and others. All of which predate the 
Amiga.
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott C. Kennedy (sck@watson.ibm.com)  | This post does not reflect the intent 
Distributed High Performance Computing | or actions of my employer, and their 
IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Facility | actions don't reflect mine either.:)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
****************** CAUTION: DEADLIEST JOKE IN THE WORLD **********************
"Venn ist das nurnstuck git und Slotermeyer?
 Ja! Beigerhund das oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!"
From: om@dist.dist.unige.it (Mauro Migliardi. DIST University of Genoa. Italy. +39 010 3532709/510278)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Intel HW
Date: 10 Apr 92 14:13:55 GMT
Organization: DIST - Universita` di Genova, Italy

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Intel HW
Summary: 
Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: DIST - Universita` di Genova, Italy
Keywords: 

Lot of stuff deleted.

I always try to avoid flamin' people. I hate doing it. But enuf'z'nuf.

>Screen refreshes! you have to be joking! If the Amiga becomes a powerful
>machine when doing a trivial chore like screen refreshes (compared to the
>utility and ability of doing anything else a computer does), then it
>obviously sucks when doing some serious work. Nobody takes screen
>refresh into account when considering how powerful a computer is. As for
>disk access, the same applies. The Amiga chipset only provides support for
>floppy drives, not hard drives. The floppy drive speed is of no concern
>to people doing any real work with a computer. You use a hard drive, not
>a floppy. Unless the chipset is real magical and makes the floppy drive
>faster than a hard drive and allows more megabytes and megabytes of storage
>on a flopp,y which obviously is not the case, good floppy access doesn't
>do squat for the power of the system. 

[Flowers, nightingale chirping and honey dripping from every single
sillable]

Let me know what are you talking about? Personal or supercomputers like a
Cray? If you are talking about the latter, well, I do agree, an Amiga 3000
is a piece of rubbish, you cannot solve complete non linear differential
systems in useful time, and screen refresh is a waste of time and nobody
needs floppies.

[no more kindness, just crude reality]

If you use a GUI a screen refresh can be a cumbersome operation and eat a
lot of CPU time (Just try MS Windows 3.0 with a 8Mhz 286 (that is more
powerful than a 7.xx MHz 68000) and enjoy yourself waiting for the OS
drawing the icons!(Windows paladins do not flame me hard for this, I know
3.1 is much faster, this was just an example)), and just because it can use
a lot of CPU prevents you from doing anything useful.
And this means also using something like a very good spreadsheet like excel.

Nothing else.
I do not even reply to your statement about floppies.

I just hope you were joking in the whole posting.

best regards.

--
*Mauro Migliardi,PhD student at Department*If I, as I'm not you, cannot know *
*of Comunications and Computer Science    *what you know, then you as you are*
*University of Genoa (ITALY)		  *not a fish, cannot understand the *
*E-mail om@dist.dist.unige.it		  *fishes' happiness. (Huei Tzu) *