HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
Subject: Re: Advocacy? What do you want for the Amiga?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 04:10:54 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.224236.9800@klaava.Helsinki.FI> lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad) writes:
>Marc N. Barrett (barrett@iastate.edu) wrote:
>> In article <1inccgINNqbh@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> dstuve@storm.CS.ORST.EDU (David Stuve) writes:
>
>> >A word processor/database/drawing/spreadsheet/communications package?
>> >How much would you be willing to pay for such a monster?
>> 
>>    $170.  That's how much MicroSoft Works costs.  I still say that it should
>> be packaged with high-end and mid-range Amigas, since Apple packages 
>> Claris Works with many of their systems.
>
>And the word processor of this package is at least as good as Word for
>Windows? And the spreadsheet is at least as good as Excel? And so on.
>According to you everything that's below Word for Windows or Excel or
>comparable products is not good enough.

   There you go again, comparing watermelons and grapefruit.

   I compare standalone word processors to standalone word processors, and
integrated software (like 'works' packages) to integrated software.  So when
I need to compare Final Copy II or ProWrite to something, I compare them 
to MS Word or Word Perfect for MAC/Windows .  After all, Final Copy II, 
ProWrite, MS Word, and Word Perfect are all standalone word processors.  But
when comparing software in 'works' packages, it should be compared to 
similar software in other 'works' packages.  Thus, if Commodore were to write
a 'works' package to be included with some Amiga system, the included word
processing, spreadsheet, database, and drawing software would be compared to
the word processing, spreadsheet, database, and drawing software included
with Claris Works or MS Works.  (However, Commodore should endeavor to make
the software much better than the software in other 'works' packages, because
Commodore has lots and lots of catching up to do)

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of another computer
is a kludge.  It has nothing to do with the AGA chipset." -- me
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 4 Jan 1993 21:35:11 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <1993Jan4.154640.23245@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Could you please mail (or post) the source code?

I'd love to, but it's something I hacked together at the PC lab at
school.  I'm not even sure where it would be.  I think I was using PC9
that day, so if it's still there, I'll bring it home.  But they
routinely delete everything in the temp drive, so we'll see.

It's really not hard to do.  Just look for the image, and remove it.
I should really have tried to find out just how far into the image it
got...

Ah well, it makes an interesting experiment.  Someone from microsoft
said that it uses the MS-DOS interrupts, so that probably would
explain it.

Greg



--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason 'KodaK' Balicki)
Subject: Re: A4000 Pricing
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:44:16 GMT

In article <1ikd7sINNil5@mercury.kingston.ac.uk> cs_e445@ceres (Vlod Kalicun) writes:
>Why does the Power Up only apply to the states.
>The Europe market is quite a big chunk for C= and yet we don't get
>any of these offers.

You don't get the Power Up's BECAUSE you are a big chunk of C='s market.
Supply and demand.  Sucks to be you, over there with Amiga dealers on 
every corner and great support. :)

>Is it C= UK just being greedy or just lazy??

I'd wager greedy.

>Regards..
>
>Vlod
>-Amiga Advocate.
>----------------------------------------------
>Amiga - Anything else isn't worth considering
>----------------------------------------------

--Jason Balicki
kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
From: cyclone@netcom.com (Bill Sheppard)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Truth about Iowa.....
Date: 6 Jan 93 01:24:47 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Paula_Lieberman@amicol.UUCP (Paula Lieberman) writes:

>Iowa is a basket case in the United States -- it's full of cornfields, and
>looked down on as a place full of yokel farmers and -cornfields- without
>much culture, interesting things to see, or intelligence..... [Iowa's part
>of the "bread basket"] There are lots of jokes about there being nothing of
>interest between the east and west coast of the US -- it's a 6 hour
>airplane flight, over a lot of -boring-, flat, -cornfield- landscape.  It's
>less tedious than -driving across- the midwest (I've never drived across
>Iowa.  I;ve driven for 9 hours across Kansas, I've driven across Texas..
>Iowa's merely further north.  It's -boring-... the same landscape without
>change for hours....

What the Hell this has to do with Amigas is beyond me, and I certainly don't
want to be on the same side as MB, but I simply cannot let such drivel go
unanswered.  

Yes, Iowa has lots of cornfields, and by extrapolation, lots of farmers. 
Intelligence, however, is far from lacking (MB excepted) - ignoring the fact
that Iowa has the highest literacy rate in the country, or the highest average
SAT scores in the country, you might also recall that the electronic digital
computer was invented there (no, not ENIAC - the plagiarists at Penn stole
most of their designs from a professor at Iowa State six years earlier).

As far as landscape, Iowa is not simply Kansas-North.  Though I-80 and I-35
don't display much diversity (they both go through the center of the state,
I-80 E/W and I-35 N/S), Iowa ranges from table-top flat in the north-central
part of the state to wooded rolling hills in the north-east.  The western edge
is lined by bluffs, and the south is hill after hill after hill.  Try riding
your bike across the state and you'll quickly appreciate the diversity of
terrain (as well as the tremendous generousity of its citizens).

Do you care?  No.  But perhaps a few _facts_ somewhere in this newsgroup will
be a breath of fresh air...
From: g2z092@rick.cs.ubc.ca (Ron Siemens)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 8 Jan 1993 17:22:08 -0800
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: gambier.rick.cs.ubc.ca

In article <jprad.726453403@faatcrl> jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov (Jack Radigan) writes:
>pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro) writes:
>
>
>>One nice thing about VM is that it takes away some of the workload
>>from the programmer, at the expense of some performance.  No need to
>>worry about overlays and such, for example - it's all managed by the
>>OS.
>
>  If the programmer is bad to average, probably.  But, just like hand-coded
>assembly versus compiled code, in the hands of an expert, never...  ;-)
>

Yikes!  -jack- using this kind of reasoning, you'd also have to admit the Mac's
method of multi-tasking is superior to the Amiga's.

But anyway, I'd have to agree that in most cases VM adds little overhead to the OS
when swapping doesn't occur.  I'd also have to agree that the benefits of VM on a
single-user system are minimal.  This might not be so true of memory-starved beasts
such as Windows and OS/2.  It is true in a memory efficient environment such as the
Amiga's.  The rare situations where it is desired, I think the 3rd party options are
sufficient.


Ron

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 06:37:42 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.162755.6993@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Skip Sauls (skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu) wrote:
>:
>: How long have they had a popular widely available multitasking OS for the
>: Intel architecture?
>
>Well, UNIX was available in 1984, and OS/2 in 1987...

Popular, Jerry, popular...

>: As for being ripped off, ask the software engineers
>: who worked on OS/2 about the Amigas in their labs...
>
>I've read two of their books, and there was no mention of the Amiga...

Of course it didn't make it in the books, didn't you know that IBM has
an Amiga filter for all of its publications?

>: No, but you can get an A1200 for around $600 that is comparable to 486sx
>: SVGA systems for twice the price.
>
>If you think a 1200 is as fast or powerful as a 486sx, you are sadly mistaken.

Sure, the 486sx has a lot of raw CPU power, but not much more.  It doesn't
have a blitter, it doesn't have a copper, it doesn't have sprites, and it
doesn't have a sound coprocessor to help it out.  It may run Lotus 123 and
other boring apps very quickly, but it pales next to the A1200 for the 
exciting stuff.

Sure, we know that you use the boring software and feel that it is more
important, but most of us around here feel differently.  My 486 at work
stomps the daylights out of silly little 486sx boxes, yet I'd rather
have an A1200 for a personal machine.

>+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
>| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
>| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
>|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
>+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+

Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)
Subject: Integrated Application Packages
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 04:48:50 GMT

Greg (the attribution has vanished) writes:

>>You can't get integration in a vacuum. Regardless of how effective AREXX can
>>be used for IPC, the majority of end-users are not interested in programming
>>macros so they can do simple operations like cutting and pasting objects
>>between applications...

>Unsatisfactory.  Simple operations like "cutting and pasting objects
>between applications" is done with the clipboard, not ARexx.

In retrospect, the cut and paste operation was a poor example. A better
illustration would be basic interoperability like having a table in
your word processor update in tandem with changes in your spread sheet.
The onus for this should be on the software, not the end user. 

The point moreover, is that the clipboard is poorly supported. Regardless
of how adequate it is to the task at hand, it has be made use of 
bidirectionally. What happens if I want to paste a DR2D structured graphics
object into my current document? None of the current word processing
packages support this format. So, you either use AREXX to convert the
graphic to a bitmap and then and paste it, or you go without. This is
unsatisfactory. If a single vendor or number of vendors were to develop
applications with a standardized interface and data format, this would
not be a problem. 

>If you don't know how the clipboard works, ask, I'm sure I or someone else
>can fill you in.

No reason to be caustic. I know what the clipboard is and how it works.
I also know that it is one of the weakest links in the OS. Whether or
not it has functional potential is of little use unless this potential is
realized.

>ARexx -IS- designed for IPC, and it's rather simple
>to support.  If one is going to create an "integrated productivity"
>package, then one should make each module separate, and give the user
>pre-written arexx scripts which he must only "drag" and "drop" into
>his Rexx: partition/drawer/whatever.  Advanced users could alter these
>scripts to call their own applications, and not have to waste space on
>your module if they don't like it.

I agree entirely and I'm sure this is the point Marc is trying to make.
The degree of integration is what is essential, not the means. If the
clipboard can be used, terrific. If AREXX is at your disposal even better.
But at the moment, this is seldom the case. And for entry-level users,
it is neither convenient nor easy. 

>And as to having a consistent interface, I'd advise the applications
>programmer to go out and buy a Style Guide.

Certainly. Unfortunately, this is too often used as a suggested strategy,
not a standard policy. Consistency has to be system-wide, not just within
individual applications.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
Subject: Re: Advocacy? What do you want for the Amiga?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 18:53:10 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.171010.18797@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA> tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran) writes:
>In article <C0MEA7.MwA@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
>writes:
>
>>Thus, if Commodore were to write a 'works' package to be included with 
>>some Amiga system, the included word processing, spreadsheet, database, and
>>drawing software would be compared to the word processing, spreadsheet,
>>database, and drawing software included with Claris Works or MS Works.
>
>Given the waning popularity of Geoworks Professional in the PC market,
>why not simply have Berkeley develop an Amiga-specific version of Geoworks?
>The expense of having one of the major players develop such a package
>would be prohibitive, while I'd prefer CBM to commit their internal 
>resources to getting RTG and 3.1/4.0 out the door. Geoworks would offer
>a reasonable compromise, and a package which would prove to be a lot more
>useful than AmigaVision for the average user.

   That's a very good idea.  I don't really care who Commodore has develop the
package, as long as the package is done well.  And you are right that it is
better for Commodore to subcontract the writing of the software to a third-
party than to do it themselves.  I think it can be argued that one of the 
reasons why the first incarnation of AmigaVision was halfway good was because
it was done by a third-party and not by Commodore.

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of another computer
is a kludge.  It has nothing to do with the AGA chipset." -- me
From: dtaylor@garnet.acns.fsu.edu (Douglas Taylor)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Summary: Icons Tooltypes and More
Keywords: Icons Tooltypes File-Links
Date: 5 Jan 93 21:16:51 GMT
Organization: Florida State University

In article <barnabas.33e5@terapin.com> barnabas@terapin.com (Colin Smith) writes:
>um, er, what is your point? i have notin against the mac, but I like the fact
>that the Amiga cannot run a program that is on say dh0 and the icon is on dh1.

 Actually, the Amiga CAN run a program on DH0: when an Icon is on DH1: - one
	could either use an Icon's Tooltypes to call another device (I have
	literally hundreds of files all over that call prowrite...), OR you
	can use MakeLink (or something to that effect) off of OS 2.xx; you just
	link a certain number of commands to one specific executable, and voila!
 For example - I use MakeLink (I can't remember the command right now; I have it
	aliased...) to link all calls to More, MuchMore, PPMore, etc. to my
	program "ReadIt" . . . it works wonders!

>That forces you to keep track of where your files are. What if you cannot find
>that file or your entire HD is a total mess? As for this Mac vs Amiga crap,
>Just give it up. The Mac has it's capabilities, and so does the Amiga. your
>happy, I'm happy. So what's the prob?

/============================================================================\
| L. Douglas Taylor InterNet: dtaylor@garnet.acns.fsu.edu |    IMPORTANT:    |
|=========================================================|   This message   |
| Guildenstern: We cross our bridges when we come to them | has cost the Net |
|   and burn them behind us, with nothing to show for our | hundreds, if not |
|   progress except a memory of the smell of smoke, and a |    thousands,    |
|   presumption that once our eyes watered...             |    of dollars    |
|                                                         |     to send.     |
\============================================================================/
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Date: 7 Jan 1993 02:02:22 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

'>CORRECTION!  $2700 is more the selling price of the Amiga 4000.  You wanna
'>quote retail prices for the Amiga, then you'd better do the same thing for
'>the compatibles, to be fair.  Naturally, this is what I expected from some
'>Ms-Dog-Head comparing Apples and Oranges. :)

	CORRECTION!  YOU might be able to get an Amiga 4000 for $2700, but 
   that is not the absolute selling price.  Its $3200 without monitor around 
   here, $3700 with A1960.  So the other persons prices may be quite accurate
   I'm afraid.

							Greg Greene
                                                        ggg@kepler.unh.edu

'>--__-----------------------------------------------------------------------
'> / /\     Raymond Hines              Internet: Ray_Hines%dream.uucp@ufl.edu
'>/_/  \  DreamStates BBS                    or: dream!Ray_Hines@ufl.edu
'>\ \  /   1-904-331-4317                  UUCP: uflorida!dream!Ray_Hines
'> \_\/ FidoNet 1:3601/30  DreamStates: An Amiga supporting Amiga, Mac, IBM!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Date: 5 Jan 1993 19:56:37 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <C0E2BM.224@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>   Wrong.  If CrossDOS were properly implemented in the OS, selecting the
>'format' menu entry would simply result in a window that gives you MS-DOS
>and Amiga formatting options in one window.  You would not have to
>use anyextra disk-formatting programs.

I think the problem, in part, is that, unlike the FastFileSystem, the
CrossDos filesystem isn't just a filesystem...

Greg
--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 06:12:37 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.182913.18137@microsoft.com> iank@microsoft.com (Ian Kennedy) writes:
>In article <1993Jan10.043322.7254@src4src.linet.org> scottw@src4src.linet.org (Scott Weintraub) writes:
>>the ATI card can play back Video for Windows
>>movies which reportedly can animate 1024 x 768 at 30fps.
>
>Sorry, but AVI only supports the one small, postage stamp size
>resolution. (200x170 or something like that...). You can zoom
>the pivture to a bigger size but the resolution is still the same,
>you just have a chunkier picture.

Oh well, it still sounds nifty...

>Well, on another note: My new Gateway 486/33 VESA died after two
>days of normal use (normal at MS is on 24 hours a day).

Time to call that 24 hour help line that Paul is so proud of...

>While I had the chance to use the ATI graphics card I was very
>impressed. It whoooped the livin' daylights out of the AGA machines
>I've used when it comes to bitmap scrolling and graphics response.
>I loaded a 256 color BMP into "WinGIF" and loaded a 256 color IFF
>into MultiView on the A4000. The 486 was scrolling a 1024x768
>GIF in a 640x480 window with perfect spped and smoothness. The Amiga
>on the other hand displayed obvious redraws and poor scrolling
>response. Word was a joy to use on the PC, while Final Copy II
>was a chore as it sucked serious bilge while running in 256 colors.

The problem is not the A4000, it is the application.  Try ViewTek on
the bitmaps.  The OldMill pic which is 1024x768 256 colors scrolls 
very smoothly using ViewTek on my A4000.

As far as graphics goes, I have converted around 12M of pics from 
various sources into AGA 256 color and HAM8 modes.  If anyone is
interested, you can ftp directly into my A4000 and download the
pictures.  Email me with an account name and password and I'll set
up an account for you.

Try FC II in 64 or 128 colors, it is very responsive in those modes.

>I was not using CPUBlit on the A4000, maybe it would have helped?
>It sure does on my A1200!

Yes, it helps for some things.  I use it all the time and have had no
problems with it.

>On the other hand I don't think the ATI card would do a game like
>Shadow of the Beast III very well as it lacks cool things like BOBS and
>sprites.

Don't forget copperlists, multiple screens of different resolutions at 
the same time, overscan, and other nifty features.

>I still await the SKBCS (Super Kick Butt Chip Set).

You'd better copyright that name quick...  :-)

>"Apple's attitude toward its ROM code is a little like that of a rich kid
>toward his inheritance. Not actually knowing how to create wealth himself,
>he guards what he has with hysterical fervor." - John Perry Barlow
>MAIL : IANK@MICROSOFT.COM			 Crime and Puzzlement

Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Advocacy? What do you want for the Amiga?
Date: 9 Jan 1993 06:58:38 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: world,public
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33
Keywords: Spam AGA Amiga

In article <C0IK0K.1Mw@starnine.com> mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:
>   As Rodney King approaches the microphone, the crowd hushes

I could _KILL_ you.  I was going to log in as "RodneyKing", and do a
REALLY, REALLY cool speech.  (sniff)

Ah well.

>Hell no.  What really matters are large breasts.

Damn straight.  Uhh.  Curved.  Uhh.  Well.  I guess it's kind of
personal, then.  :)

So, let's get Paula Lieberman into a "My breasts sag lower than your
breasts" war.  I'll bet my brother's got the biggest set since Dolly
Parton got implants.  :)

(Now Paula, breathe deeply.  It's a joke, and it was meant to make you
SMILE, you know, that thing called HUMOR that they beat out of you
when you join the service...)

Greg


--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)