HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: coleman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Michele Coleman)
Subject: Milk and calcium (here we go again)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 03:42:04 GMT

    I'm not sure why I'm posting, because I've seen this topic discussed
before, without any good resolution.  There seems to be a lot of
conflicting opinion.
    Basically, I stopped drinking milk for awhile, then I went back to it
this week because I was feeling very poor and it costs 1/3 to 1/4 what
Rice Dream does.  But then I discovered that I prefer the taste of Rice Dream.
So if I go back to Rice Dream, I'll be eating mostly vegan food.
But after all those years of agribusiness propaganda :-) I guess I've
been brainwashed enough that I'm at least a bit worried about, yep,
calcium.
    I've wondered about a few things when I've considered this whole
question of whether milk is essential for good health, so in no particular
order:
    What about all those places in the world where people don't drink
milk at all, like parts of Africa and Asia?  How do women there fare?
Does this osteoperosis thing appear in other mammels--that would be
interesting to know.  Elephants and moose seem like they have an awful
lot of bone--so where does all that calcium come from?  The soil must be
chalk (sorry) full of it.  How about when I have a baby--from conception
to weaning that child grows lots of bone--does it all come from mine
(yikes!) if I'm not drinking my milk?  If protein leaches calcium from
the bones, is that true of all protein, or just animal protein?  How
much protein is too much?  I mean, how much rice and beans and tofu can
I eat each day before I have to get worried?  If I already have a full
set of bones, why do I have to keep getting more calcium?  Why can't I
just keep the bones I've got?  Am I just doomed if I don't eat kale?
To be honest, it's just not going to happen that I eat green leafy
vegetables every day.  What about those multivitamin pills--is the
calcium there at all worthwhile?  Since there are an awful lot of
vertebrates in the world, there's an awful lot of bone, so it seems to
me that calcium must be everywhere, in all the plants we eat.  After all,
all the vertebrates and even some other critters always seem to find it.
So why are we worried at all?  Is it all dairy products that are harmful,
or only fatty ones; i.e., how about skim milk?
     In advance, I'd like to fend off two arguments that I consider
unhelpful.

a)  Conventional wisdom from the medical establishment or diary
industry.  Don't just say that old women don't have enough calcium
in their bones so young women should eat more cheese.  If you have data
showing that the old women with brittle bones actually did eat less
cheese in their youth than the women with strong bones, _that_ would
be worth posting.

b)  "No other animal drinks the milk of another species, so we shouldn't
either."  No other animal ferments soybeans to make tofu, either.

    Facts appreciated more than ideology.  If everyone's sick of this
topic, let me know and I'll go away and be quiet.

--Michele Coleman
From: brad@delfin.com (Brad Heckman)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Oil Fat Absorption Through Skin?
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:18:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: delfin.1993Jan25.221853.20066
Organization: Delfin Systems
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

I am on an oil-free diet.
 
Does anyone know how applying oil to your skin compares to eating it,
with regard to body absorption of saturated fat?
 
Why? I am interested in Ayurvedic sesame oil massage.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: uad1214@dircon.co.uk (Peter Cox)
Subject: Re: REQUEST: recipes for 'okara'/tempeh
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:34:11 GMT
Keywords: soybean, okara, tempeh

mikem@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Michael McCaffrey) writes:

>okara is the slurry left in producing tofu. dried, and flavoured,
>sliced - it is a lovely addition to any meal.
>
>tempeh is soybean, ferment & packed in cakes. again flavoured,
>etc.
>


There are some great okara / tempeh recipes in:

THE FARM VEGETARIAN COOKBOOK.

Actually, it's vegan.
-- 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                     Peter Cox
uad1214@dircon.co.uk           CompuServe 100012,221
From: mad4@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Maddex)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: "MANLY" food ***
Date: 27 Jan 93 01:01:43 GMT
Reply-To: mad4@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Pranksters for Peace

In article <1jt4p4INNl8f@cbl.umd.edu> tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara McDermott) writes:
>kbanaian@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu (King Banaian) writes:
>
>>BTW, Tara, can we put "I eat tofu, and I vote" on a bumpersticker and mail 
>>it to Bill?  Perhaps we could attach a picture of a chicken factory?

Yeah, if you think any amount of pressure will open that whore's mind you're
in for four years of ugly disillusionment.

>If you want, write to White Wave (they now make tofu, as well as vegan
>soy yogurt and other meat alternatives) and ask them for one.  I
>actually saw this on a bumper sticker from White Wave on Neal
>Barnard's car (the vegan M.D.)!

The Chicago Diner has one on the cash register.  I saw it from halfway across
the restaurant and knew I had to get one.  That was in September, and the 
thing's been sitting on my night table ever since.  I gotta wash my car and
put it on one of these days...

>Tara McDermott               
>tara@starburst.umd.edu       
>I eat tofu, and I vote.

Billy Magic
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen)
Subject: Re: chocolate -- what's the story
Followup-To: rec.food.veg
Organization: NRL
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:18:19 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.155443.10963@julian.uwo.ca>, zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca
(Lance R. Bailey) wrote:
> 
> 
> I know that *milk* chocalate is not vegan, but is standard chocolate, say
> a hershey's bar or a snickers, vegetarian? and if not, why not.

If it's made with honey or refined sugar, many vegans won't eat it. More
complicated stuff like Snickers, etc. might have gelatin, egg whites, etc.
in the nonchocolate part --- READ THE LABELS! Plain cocoa powder, or baking
chocolate, should be vegan-friendly (thank goodness); it's the stuff they
put into candy bars after that point that can make a difference. The safest
bet would be bittersweet chocolate without anything else in it, but read
labels anyway. There's a company making organic dark chocolate bars with
succanat ..... excellent, but i don't recall the name. 

Judy Karpen                "pushing back the frontiers of science"
karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil  Naval Research Lab, Washington, DC USA
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: thamano@pi.titech.ac.jp (Te Hamano)
Subject: REQUEST: recipes for 'okara'/tempeh
Organization: Precision and Intelligence Lab., Tokyo Institute of Tech.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 07:03:52 GMT


Hello there!

I am new on this r.f.v.  In this newsgroup, I found that 'okara', 'the rest of
soy beans curd', or tempeh (I am not sure tempeh is 'okara') is popular among
vegetarians over the world.  

Anyway, I would like to know how you veggies cook 'okara'/tempeh there.  
Please let me know of your recipes.

Thanks in advance.

_____________________

Te Hamano  (emails are also welcome to: thamano@pi.titech.ac.jp)
P&I lab., Tokyo Inst. of Tech.

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,misc.fitness
From: jspence@cmptrc.lonestar.org (John Spence)
Subject: Re: Textured Vegtable Protien
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 04:35:51 GMT
Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX

In article <1993Jan21.014047.13017@wam.umd.edu> sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve Russell) writes:
>Anyone know the nutritional breakdown on Textured Vegtable Protien (TVP)?
>Especically the amt of fat and calories?
This is from the Harvest Direct catalog. TVP (r) of Archer Daniels Midland Inc
in the standard Ground beef style has per 100 grams/3.5 oz.
    Calories		280
    protein (g)		52
    Carbo (g)		32
    fiber		18
    fat (g)		1
    saturates (g)	.10
    monounsaturates (g)	.25
    polyunsaturates (g)	.65
    Cholesterol (mg)	0
    Sodium (mg)		15
    Potassium (mg)	2200

	
-- 
jspence@cmptrc.lonestar.org                                (214) 235-7161 x4100
John E. Spence                                                  CompuTrac, Inc.
            "Mostly people change not because they see the light,
               but because they feel the feel the heat." Anon.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve Russell)
Subject: Re: Manly Food
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:06:51 GMT

	Since there are many other "mavens" and nutrition bibliophiles
on the net, I think most everyone here will get the intended humor
in my thoughts with out statistics from here to the Sea Of Tranquility.


These are some rhetorical questions about what is masculine and
what is "Manly Food" 

How masculine "Manly" are the various conditions caused/contributed to
by lifelong consumption of animal products, ie "Manly Foods"?

1.  Being so fat you have breasts?

2.  Having less endurance/strength then an athletic vegetarian?

3.  Testical Cancer?  They cure it by shutting testosterone production down.
4.  Prostate Cancer?   Ditto

5.  Impotentence?  Arteriolschelosis cuts back on circulation to the genitals
    that is why many "manly" meat eaters find hobbies when they hit their
    forties instead of spending more time with their wives.  Men in
    countries with mostly vegan diets father children way past this age.

6.  Decreased Fertility?  Vegetarians have higher sperm counts. Eating
    the cows fed pesticide treated crops gives you a higher concentration
    of these sperm killers.

7.  Being britlle from osteoporsis?  Meat irritates osteoporsis.
8.  Being unable to walk a block from heart problems.  


Gee! *sarcastic smile* If this is what being "manly and eating manly food"
means as far as masculinity pass me the veggies!

Steve R
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: omitchel@jarthur.claremont.edu (Ocie Mitchell)
Subject: Re: "MANLY" food ***
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 01:23:12 GMT

In article <C1BKAs.432@world.std.com> levin@world.std.com (Levin F Magruder) writes:
>thmiley@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Tim Miley) writes:
>>I find it rather amusing in a pathetic sort of way.  The commercials might as
>>well just come out and say the truth: "Heart disease: the Manly Way to Die."
>>;^)
>
>Perhaps it will be a few years before there are readers here too young
>to remember, but LET US NEVER FORGET:
>
>About 5 years ago, James "rockford files" Gar(d?)ner was doing a LONG,
>OBNOXIOUS (worse than ALL CAPS) series of ads with the slogan "Beef --
>real food for real people" and, while or shortly after he was the most
>visible spokesman for the industry, he needed quadruple or quintuple
>bypass surgery.
>
>And, to the best of my knowlege, the irresponsible comics at
>SatNightLive never made any mention of this.  Further proof of
>meat tycoons' conspiracy to control the consumer's mind.
>
>

I thought I posted this, but I can't seem to find it here, so here we go.  
Although SNL didn't pick up on the James Garner, Sybil Shepard (never eats
red meat) Beef adds, they have done several "anti meat" skits.
One was I believe in reference to the pork comercials saying "Lard, Today's
food for today's lifestyle" or something to that effect.  There was also the
comercial for the chicken restauraunt where a cartoon chicken is beheaded
and then narates a pictorial essay on how chcken is prepared (in all it's
gut-spilling splendor).  There was a catle drive song that didn't pull any
punches, except for the fact that they mentioned stunning the cattle, which
is not always done.  And last but not least, the Chicago bears superfans who
exchange lines like "I had two heart attacks last week my friend".  All in
all, SNL's attitudes towards meat range from the silly to the disturbing.
Ocie

----------------------------------------------+-------------------------------
``What do you think sirs?''  -Joel (mst3k)    | .sig lite- all .sig no guilt
----------------------------------------------+------------------------------- 
   __             _ _ _                       | Ocie Mitchell
  / ')           ' ) ) )  _/_    /      /) /) | omitchel@jarthur.claremont.edu
 /  / _. o _      / / / o /  _. /_  _  // //  | Q:is that your real name? 
(__/ (__(_(<_    / ' (_(_(__(__/ /_(<_(/_(/_  | A:yes, it is my real name.
----------------------------------------------+-------------------------------
From: timi@mendel.berkeley.edu ( Tim Ikeda)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: References for Vegan/Vegetarian environment
Date: 22 Jan 1993 01:18:06 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: mendel.berkeley.edu
Keywords: environment vegan

ekeller@aerie.CalStateLA.EDU (eddy keller) writes:
>I am looking for publications which discuss environmental
>reasons for/against a vegetarian or vegan diet.
> [...]

tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara McDermott) says:
>>Some of the best and well known ones are:
>>
>> [...]
>>Beyond Beef - Jeremy Rifkin (explaining the history and problems with
>>  the cattle culture, as well as explaining what it is doing to our
>>  environment, and the role it has played in shaping our history.  A
>>  GREAT book to read)

I think Rifkin's works should always be read with a touch of
incredulity. Put mildly, he has a tendency to gloss-over 
contradictory information while at other times over-inflating the
significance of his pet ideas. It as if he doesn't realize
that two half-truths don't add up to the whole truth.

This is not to say that some of the points he makes are off
the mark; some may be spot-on. But when building the foundation
for an arguement, it's not a very good idea to fill in the gaps
between the solid "bricks" with bullshit. It only detracts.

<<Jeremy's book, "Algeny" is a particularly good example of
"Rifkin-esque" rhetoric - Anyone with more than an 8th grade
understanding of evolution should easily chop it to shreads.>>

Regards,
Tim Ikeda
From: kathy@col.hp.com (Kathy Lankford)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: "MANLY" food ***
Date: 23 Jan 1993 00:02:58 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: netdud1.cs.itc.hp.com

I just moved from California to the midwest, where I was
a bit surprised to find that there's still a lot of 
"men are men and women are women" attitude.  I was further
interested to note that men show their membership in the
male group and try to "one-up" each other by eating large
amounts of extremely raw beef.  I'm not keen on being
thought a lesser human being, but stuffing my face with
raw beef is one thing I won't do to prove my equality!
From: red_trek@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Spanish Rice
Date: 24 Jan 93 16:28:55 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

SPANISH RICE

3 cups warm cooked brown rice
4 stalks celery, diced
1 onion, chopped
1 green pepper, diced
2 cloves garlic
1 teaspoon chili powder
1 teaspoon cumin
1 Tablespoon vegetable oil
1 cup chopped tomatoes
1 teaspoon salt
1/2 teaspoon oregano
1 teaspoon basil
1/4 teaspoon paprika

Saute onion, celery, pepper and garlic in oil until vegetables
are tender.  Add salt, oregano, basil, paprika, chili powder, cumin
and tomatoes.  Cook until tomatoes are soft.  Stir in rice.
From: schumach@cetus4e.utk.edu (Chris Schumacher)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: World Guide to Vegetarianism - 3/5 - USA
Date: 25 Jan 93 00:02:54
Organization: University of Tennessee, CS dept.
NNTP-Posting-Host: cetus4e.cs.utk.edu
In-reply-to: mwisdom@bnr.ca's message of Thu, 21 Jan 93 03:42:56 GMT


Taco Bell also has a "no meat" button.  I often get a Burrito Supreme
with no meat. 

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: Janet_Wilson@mindlink.bc.ca (Janet Wilson)
Subject: Re: Question about food combining..., and a recipe.
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:45:16 GMT

Yes, you are right, but one still needs to be aware of combining over the
course of a day (I think it is a day, maybe longer...does anyone know?)
From: tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara McDermott)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Can Reason And Information Stop Meat Eating
Date: 22 Jan 1993 14:27:47 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, Chesapeake Biological Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: starburst.umd.edu

wendymas@gnu.ai.mit.edu (orange buttercat) writes:

> 	hi, everyone. today is the first day of me being a vegetarian.

Congratulations!  Welcome to the rest of your life.

>can anyone give me a place to start? my main hesitation has been finding
>substitute foods for the meats i am giving up and also finding intersting
>new ways to make veggies.  I am interested in obtaining suggestions for:
>1 - cookbooks with quik and easy recipes. i am a poor college student with 
>a busy schedule and limited budget. anything too complicated or fancy is 
>too much of a bother.

You might want to check out several cookbooks from Debra Wasserman of
the Vegetarian Resource Group.  She has written one book called
_Simply Vegan_.  It is very simplistic, but may give you a few ideas
as how to proceed.  I hardly ever use this book, because of the fact
that it is too simple for me.  This costs $12.

I also recommend (more than I can say here) the New Farm Vegetarian
Cookbook.  It costs $7.95, and almost everything in there is fairly
quick.  It takes as long as cooking with meat does.  Everything is
very tasty, and there are lots of meals to replace meat (such as my
sloppy joe recipe, and many others).  Tofu, tempeh, tvp, vegetable
casseroles, lentils, you name it.  It's fairly easy to follow, and I
think you would love it.

The American Vegetarian Cookbook from the Fit For Life Kitchen by
Marilyn Diamond (around $21 or so), may be suitable for you.  I
haven't used this as often as I would like, but the recipes are fairly
straightforward.  It's a regular vegan cookbook, but there are several
recipes that are quick, if you look for them. 

The Single Vegan (or the Single Vegetarian), are other suggestions.  I
don't have them, but the appeal should be evident.

>2 - organizations in the Boston area that provide information and support
>for vegetarians.  i am interested in maybe joining a group that engages 
>in dinners so i can get an idea of what is out there to eat.

See if there's a vegetarian society in the area.  I couldn't find any
in NAVS' list.

>3 - veg foods and recipes that i can eat along the lines of tahini, hummus, 
>etc.

Most cookbooks have recipes for or using these ingredients.  Other
than that, keep your eyes peeled on rfv, and get recipes here!

>i really appreciate this. i want to be as healthy as possible. i want to
>thank whomever is responsible for starting this group and all those who
>have contributed interesting info and recipes. i predict that i will be 
>saving a lot of recipes for use. 

>wendymas

--
Tara McDermott               
tara@starburst.umd.edu       
I eat tofu, and I vote.
From: bosman@vtx.ma.man.ac.uk (Steve Bosman)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: "MANLY" food ***
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:41:42 GMT
Organization: The Outlaws

this ain't related but...

In article <1jporjINNq85@cbl.umd.edu>, tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara McDermott) writes:
|> sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve Russell) writes:
|> 
|> >I remember reading some feminst book awhile back stating your opinions
|> >and going deeper comparing our "meat culture" to the oppression of women.
|> 
|> The book is called _The Sexual Politics of Meat_ by Carol Adams.  One
|> interesting fact - 3 out of every 4 vegetarians are women.  

is this where the song by Consolidated (i think thats the group) comes from?

|> 
|> >Steve R
|> 
|> --
|> Tara McDermott               
|> tara@starburst.umd.edu       
|> I eat tofu, and I vote.

thanks

-- 
=== Steve Bosman === email: bosman@uk.ac.man.ma.vtx =========================
=== snail: Maths building, Manchester University, Oxford Road, Manchester ===
"A brave man once requested me, to answer questions that are key
 is it to be or not to be and i replied `oh why ask me?'"
                               Theme from M*A*S*H (Suicide is Painless)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: "The Unexamined Life" 
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:25:15 GMT


                    THE UNEXAMINED LIFE
                    by Judith V. Waters


    Don't drink coffee?
    Don't drink tea?
    Don't use liquor?
    It's fine with me.
    
    Don't eat chicken?
    Don't eat beef?
    Don't even eat fish?
    Beyond belief!
    
    What do you eat?
    How do you survive?
    Whence comes your protein?
    Plants too are alive.
    
    What do your spouse and offspring say?
    How about your parents, do they eat this way?
    Do your friends still come around today?
    What kind of game are you trying to play?
    
    Some people are good and they eat meat,
    While some are bad and forego this treat.
    You mention ozone and global heat,
    How can it help to eat beans and wheat?
    
    I like meat, my friends like to hunt.
    Animals are dumb, they snort and grunt.
    People are smart and clever and wise.
    I think you ignore that everything dies.
    
    Even if you're right and that our diet is to blame
    And disease of the globe and of us is the same,
    And if world hunger is, as you claim,
    Bound up with this, it's truly a shame.
    
    But change my ways?  that is too much!
    My folkways are too "right" to touch.
    They're obviously right, they're what everyone does,
    And your presence to the contrary puts my head in a buzz.
    
    Do whatever crazy thing you want,
    I'm surprised you're not all weak and gaunt.
    But don't tell others and don't tell me,
    I'll turn deaf ear on any plea.
    
    To question what's plain for all to see
    And shake accepted customs uncomfortably.
    To examine my worldview would cause me unease. . .
    I might see a difference 'tween rabbits and peas.

Judith V. Waters is an itinerant philosopher naturalist who
writes poems and essays on nature and metaphysical themes.
She has been a vegetarian for almost 20 years.  The above
poem was published in BETWEEN THE SPECIES, 1992, 8:(2):72-3.

					ted
3
From: rovel@eng.umd.edu (Amy L. Rovelstad)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Cheese replacements (was Re: Meat replacements)
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:32:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: mojo.1k4akkINNfd
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park
NNTP-Posting-Host: bagend.eng.umd.edu

In article <1993Jan26.020158.12187@bmerh85.bnr.ca> mwisdom@bnr.ca (Mark Wisdom) writes:

[deletions]

>I've tried the veggie pepperoni on a cheese-less pizza. It's great!
>My question is, are there any good vegan cheese substitutes out there?
 
[deletions]

>-----------------------------------------------------
>Mark Wisdom,  Bell-Northern Research,  Ottawa, Canada
>Disclaimer: Above opinions are my own, and not BNR's.
>-----------------------------------------------------

I've posted before about the ``cheese'' recipe based on nutritional
yeast in _The Farm_ cookbook (haven't gotten the new edition - is it
worth replacing the old one?).  If anyone wants it, I can post it again,
or, better, go out and buy the book!!

I think Tara mentioned a few days ago how good this book is, especially,
It seems to me, for kids.  They've got tons of vegan versions of comfort
foods like Sloppy Joes, burritoes, etc.  It is somewhat soy based,
at least insofar as their entree recipes go, and I wouldn't exactly
call it low-fat, either.  But if you are looking for a coffeecake recipe,
or a good minestrone soup, it's the place to go.  (Plus, all those groovy
pictures...kind of takes me back.)


Amy
Xref: sparky rec.food.veg:12642 misc.health.alternative:750 sci.med.nutrition:2055