From: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Subject: Re: the "oh" experience
Originator: elf@halcyon.com
Reply-To: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Organization: Pendor, UnLtd.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 08:35:22 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.091952.28939@specialix.co.uk>
     kamal@specialix.co.uk (Kamal Mortoza) writes:

>Well - my wife and I are both bi-sexual. But we found that the sharing 
>experience was more important than plain fooling around seperately - which
>all too often can cause jealosy, no matter how hard one tries to control it.

   BZZZZT.  No matter how hard YOU try to control it.  My wife and I
have had a successfully open and bisexual relationship for seven years
now.  Not only do we _not_ insist on being in on each other's sexual
lives, we've found we cannot function that way.  Yes, Omaha and DeWolf
are the best of friends and love each other very much; Yes, I find May
very attractive and, if Omaha's relationship with her starts going
anywhere I'd love to get to know May better, but I don't insist that I
be a part of those relationships, and I don't insist that Omaha be a
sexual component of DeWolf and my sexual lives.

   This method works, for us.  Not what's happening here... _You_ are
lecturing to the audience about what, In Your Apparently Not So Humble
Opinion, works.  Sorry, not only does your method not always work, but
in the case of _my_ relationship, it would be downright destructive!

   But don't presume to lecture to Piglet, or anyone else, about how it
"should be," because what you think "should" ain't necessarily so.
Offering examples is wonderful; in your case you have some to offer,
and I think you should do so.  But presuming to have "the answer" is
arrogant in the extreme.

>Going seperate ways will always raise the suspicion of deception - even
>if there isn't any.

   *SNORT*.  In other words, you don't trust your wife to come home,
eventually.  Those niggling little fears of yours can't be dealt with
by your love and trust in her.  Omaha and I have no such trouble.  And
if we did, it would be our _responsibility_, as adults, to understand
why, and decide whether we should fix it, or forget it.

   You want my rude, crude, and socially unacceptable blanket
statement?  Your marriage isn't secure; you need to have each other _in
sight_ when you're "sharing."

>Try to relax a little, try threesomes. It can be just as fulfilling as
>one on one lovemaking.

   [ Snide mode on ]

   Nineteen years, huh... let's see... 1973?  Well, that explains a
lot.  Your entire post reads like a swingers manifesto from 1976.
Guess what?  The 70's are DEAD!

   [ Snide mode off ]

   In my soft and tender (not to mention tenderized) 26 years, I have
relaxed a number of times, I have tried a number of things.  Some of
them have worked, some of them have not.  Threesomes are one of the
things that have _not_ worked for me.  I find the "third" person in a
threesome distracting; I find myself feeling responsible for more than
one other person's pleasure.

   _For me_, having someone inflict massive amounts of pain on me is,
in certain settings, as fulfilling as one-on-one lovemaking.  But I am
not going to suggest to _you_, or anyone else, that the road to
pleasure and joy is through being whipped so hard that your lips turn
blue, your skin goes cold and you pass out.

   Couples, triples, even working dozensomes, have their own rules made
up by the people in them, and those rules work for them.  Those rules
may include complicated charts, diagrams, and LOTUS 1-2-3 spreadsheets
organizing who will sleep with whom and when... and if they're
functioning, leave them alone.  Piglet said, quite emphatically, that
she doesn't feel comfortable with the thought of a threesome.  Telling
her to relax isn't helpful.  That's like telling a rape victim to relax
and enjoy it.  (Okay, maybe the analogy's a little strong, but Piglet
is _not_ having a good day and I don't think any of us want her doing
something she won't enjoy because it's presented as "the only way.)

   MY relationship works because I know, beyond the shadow of a doubt,
that my wife WILL come home.  No questions asked.  And she knows I
will.  No doubt, no suspicion, no deception.

   Cite examples, encourage communication.  Laying down the law,
especially where humans are involved, doesn't help.

         Elf !!!
-- 
Elf Sternberg    __   |     I have looked into the abyss, and the abyss
elf@halcyon.com  \/   | has looked into me.  Neither liked what we saw.
elf@polari.online.com |                              - Brother Theodore