HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Perot ?
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (beta) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 30 Jul 92 00:55:18 PST
Organization: Amiga makes it possible

In article <1992Jul30.043359.20955@ctr.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes:
> In article <oleg.02tr@crumpet.cts.com> oleg@crumpet.cts.com (Oleg Rovner) writes:
> >
> >Bullshit. Both Democrats and Republicans have done a fair share of mud
> >slinging, but Democrats are much more notorious for having run quite
> >a few poltical machines, which did EVERYTHING to crush any opposition.
> >As far as democratic mudslinging, let's take a closer look at the Anita
> >Hill testimony, and the involvement of Democratic senatorial aides in it,
> >or the Robert Bork hearings, or Judge Ginsburg. I won't even  mention the
> >smearing of Ronald Reagan... Neither party can survive without the
> >mudslinging since they are now virtually equivalent in philosophy.
>
> (Note: I regret this already): Although both camps do tons of mud
> slinging, the republicans are usually far more unified. When a
> "Republican" bill goes through congress it is guaranteed to get
> almost every republican vote. The democrats cannot manage to get
> their members of congress to act so monolithically.
>

Not true.  On most things they get 100% of the vote, at least in the
house of representatives - I got bored of watching the senate on
C-SPAN :)  What I've seen in the last 3 years, and over 1000 hours
of C-SPAN II, is bills with votes split consistently along party lines.
And don't forget, the dems can afford to have a few vote the other way
(intentionally so, beyond a doubt) for appearances sake - they have
that kind of majority.

> 	And as to Anita Hill, while almost certainly it was a
> democrat who leaked the story, that isn't really as relevant as
> the fact that the democrats chose not to display all evidence and
> just allow her to be crucified. Who was telling the truth? I
> don't know. I tend to think her, but I could be wrong. But I
> would be kidding myself if I thought that we were told the whole
> story and given all the facts.

I tend to think Joseph McCarthy is alive and well and running the
democratic party.  Witch hunt.  Time and time again, witch hunt.

Who slung the first mud in 1988?  Al Gore brought up Willie Horton
before the democratic primary in New York state, at a debate.  Remember
"Where was George?"  That Ann Richards woman sure knows how to sling
mud well.

> 	-- Ethan
>
>

--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ddking@dante (Dwight King)
Subject: Amiga and More For Sale!!!!
Organization: New Mexico State University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 15:31:34 GMT

miga computer for Sale:

Amiga 2000 with 6MB Ram, 80MB Seagate SCSI HD, 2400 Baud Supra Modem,
14" RCA Monitor, 19" RGB Monitor, New still in the box DCTV, Gold
Internal Midi Interface, Deluxe Paint IV, SAS/C, A-Talk III, Perfect
Sound and Digitizer, and Mics. games.

Would like to sell all for $2200.00 but I will entertain all offers.

Call me (Bill Murphy) at (505) 524-3466 after 4:00pm MST.

--
               |^^^^^^^|                              
               |(o) (o)|                                
      =====!!!=====U=====!!!============================================
       || Dwight King    []HENRY VAUGHAN 1622-1695                   ||
       || ddking@NMSU.EDU[]Man is the shuttle, to whose winding quest||
       || (505) 646-4621 []And passage through these looms           ||
       || System Analyst []God order'd motion, but ordain'd no rest. ||
       ||                []Silex Scintillans (1650-55), Man          ||
      ==================================================================
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro)
Subject: Re: blah (WAS: Re: Wing Commander I ?)
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:04:53 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.071039.3007@desire.wright.edu> fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu writes:
>> Actually PC's are getting VERY CHEAP so your point here is void as well.
>> A 50mhz Gateway 2000 with a 100MB HD and SVGA can be got at about $3000.
>> That's the high end (since you mentioned Suns).  Lets not get into
>> the 386SX clones.  I've seen one 25mhz machine with 3megs of RAM and a
>> 50meg HD for under $1500.  (I think it was the BSD 386SX)
>>
>	A guy wearing a long trenchcoat came up to me while I was
>	getting into my car after work.  He said "Hey buddy, want
>	to buy a PC; cheap?"  He pulled open his trenchcoat and-you guessed
>	it-  There were dozens of PC clowns HANGING INSIDE!  Well,
>	people warned me about these types....

Dell 325SX
  - 386SX-25 CPU
  - 2MB RAM
  - 640x480 VGA monitor
  - 80MB HD
  - HD floppy (your choice 3.5 or 5.25)
  - MS-DOS 5.00
  - Full Dell support

  - $1,149

Dell Dimension 386SX/25
  - 386SX-25 CPU
  - 4MB RAM
  - SVGA w/ 0.28 monitor (1024x768 interlaced)
  - 80MB HD
  - Dual floppy drives (3.5", 5.25")
  - MS-DOS 5/MS-Windows 3.1
  - Microsoft Mouse
  - Full Dell support

  - $1,359 ($1,549 for same but 386DX-33 CPU)
    $2,299 (same system but 486DX-33, 212MB HD, NI monitor)
-- 
Niven's Law #14:   There exist minds that think as well as you do, but
                   differently.
Niven's Corollary: The gene-tampered turkey you're talking to isn't
                   necessarily one of them.
From: Mike_Whalen@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Mike Whalen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dave Hanie for C= Chairman of Board of Diretors! was Re: LET'S RESC
Distribution: world
Date: 30 Jul 92 09:20:58 CST
Organization: The Amiga GateWay BBS * New Orleans, La.

In a message dated Wed 29 Jul 92 18:03, Jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu wrote:

 J> I never meant this as a complaint with respect to C= employees.  Those
 J> three guys MUST be working very hard and I can only respect what
 J> efforts they are making and am quite sure they will do something
 J> exceptional, BUT three people??  They didn't go and hire themselves.
 J> Some body chose to ONLY hire THREE people.  The point I was trying to
 J> make was that C= management, who makes hiring decisions and decides
 J> the direction of the company, are making a serious blunder by so
 J> grossly understaffing such an important area of development.

  You know, a friend of mine reminded me of something yesterday.

  Way back in version 1.0 of WorkBench, there was a credit screen (or did
he say it was KickStart).. 

  Anyway, he said that at a certain point in the credits, it said the
something like "Amiga.. the Computer for the Future.." He told me that at
the point if you pull out the disk (which is hard to do he says considering
you have to hold down the mouse button as well and pull out the disk).. you
would quickly see, "But Commodore fucked it up."

  What we all have to remember is the Amiga was NEVER Commodore's. Amiga
Co. made the thing and Commodore bought it to market it. It may not have
gotten anywhere because Amiga Co. (if that was their name... but you know
what I am talking about) didn't have the money to market it.

  Now, I am sure that plays a significant role in upgrading of chips and
stuff like that.

  Not to mention the fact that Commodore FIRED the original developers.

  Why?

  Does anyone know why? 


 J> this the new C= professional company?  Skimp on adverstising, R&D, and
 J> people and let everyone else make up for the loss while you stuff your
 J> pockets with a annual $4mil salary?  Seems awfully fishy to me...-);

  Me too. It's quite possible that Commodore is merely one of those
companies that caught in the position where they are so comfortable with
where they are... they have devoted fans.. they keep coming out with
mediocre upgrades that appeal the masses.. you are making 4 million a
year.. you've got the European market opening wide up.. and you aren't in
danger of going out of business.

  Would YOU want to move much? Would YOU want to take risks on that salary?

  It would be hard to.. wouldn't you say?

Mike.. 

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

---------
Phillip Robinson author of Washington Post/San Jose Mercury
article is RIGHT about Commodore atrocities regarding the Amiga!
Let's make HIM our voice! Since Commodore won't listen to us!

                              Phil Robinson
                              P.O. Box 1377
                           Sausalito, CA  94966
---------

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:43:28 GMT

>I do not rate OS/2, personally, for performance.  I will say this, though.
>I went to the store to see OS/2 in action for myself.  I will say that it
>looks like the Amiga, with more resolution and colors.  Perhaps a better
>thought out user interface, too.  However, the first thing I did was double
>click on an app.  Waited a few seconds, but nothing seemed to be happening.
>So I double clicked again. Repeated this 8 times.  Finally the first invocation
>came up and after a while - a significant wait - the other 7 invocations also
>came up. I could learn to train myself to wait, I gues. But that's performance.

	What type of PC were you looking at?  OS2 is very fast on my system, 
   and I'm using orchid OS2 1024x768 beta drivers with a Diamond Speedstar +
   card.  When I click on icons, the app or window comes up almost instantly.
   It will be interesting to see how fast OS2 will be when real drivers
   for Diamond Cards are available and when IBM releases the 32 bit graphics
   engine in the September CSD. 

							G.Greene

>
>
>--
>Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
>Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
>Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
>1124 Fremont Ave.
>Los Altos, CA 94024
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:19776 rec.video.production:1171
From: pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro)
Subject: Re:  Amiga Future?!?
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 12:12:03 GMT

In article <gromyko.03o4@sputnik.rhein-main.de> gromyko@sputnik.rhein-main.de (Michael Grom) writes:

>Progress is too often expressed in Megabytes or Megaherz, IMHO. This
>is typical for clone advocates. It is the usability which makes a
>technology outstanding.

[description of old mainframe deleted]

>I have never seen something like Windows, excessivley rising the
>requirements in hardware and in turn offering so less.

[lots of criticism of Windows 3.0 deleted]

But wait.  Nobody said you have to run Windows to have a useful
system.  I know a few people who are still using 8088 systems and are
quite happy running WordPerfect, Lotus, etc., on them.  These packages
run just fine, and are quite powerful and useful.

You didn't require your old mainframe in the example above to run a
windowing system and the latest software, so why do you assume that a
PC has to run the latest windowing systems and software to be useable?

(Of course all the hackers will scream - It has to have preemptive
multitasking and a good API and a flat memory model with extensible
microkernel architecture!)

>Since we are in the age of Windows, PCs and clones need
>
>	* faster CPUs to execute slow code
>
>	* faster graphic boards to display colorful imagery.
>
>	* bigger harddisk to store your few Windows Apps on
>
>	* faster harddisks to speed up swapping
>
>        * more RAM to prevent Windows from doing the latter
>

All of this is available for well under $2500 from a top-notch dealer
(Dell 486P/33 - 486DX-33, 4MB RAM, 170MB 17ms HD, SVGA, $2199)

>The most of my collegues have clones, for a few simple reasons:
>
>        * they are cheap

Your colleagues or their clones?  If the former, you are full of it.
If the latter, that's a pretty good reason for most average-income
people.

>
>        * they all come with Windows, the GUI for novices ;-),
>          regardless how low equipped an Windows-unusable the
>          particular machine is.

Would you rather *not* have them bundle Windows, thus getting less for
your money?

>        * they can run the software their users
>          probably have pirated at the office

What crap.  Typical *.advocacy whining.  Says nothing about the
hardware.  It only attacks the users.

>PPS:	Only PC users appear absolutely narrow-minded an intolerant to
>        me. "What? You have an Amiga - hahaha!"

Check out some of the morons who've started an Amiga flamewar on
comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc recently.  It's not hard to find fools among the
*.advocacy crowd.  This is hardware independent.

-- 
Niven's Law #14:   There exist minds that think as well as you do, but
                   differently.
Niven's Corollary: The gene-tampered turkey you're talking to isn't
                   necessarily one of them.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: ! Pournelle [sic] says that there is a new amiga !
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Date: 29 Jul 92 19:25:18 PST
Organization: TAP, NZAmigaUG

Quoted from <1992Jul29.023453.12024@trl.oz.au> by aduncan@titan.trl.OZ.AU (Allan Duncan):

> This has been a continuing drift to Intel worship.  But remember - a lot
> of the early Amigas were sold on the basis of the Byte reviews.

    Really? Wasn't their first Amiga review the one that faulted the
    CLI because it wasn't enough like MS-DOS?

    The chap who wrote that, funnily enough, ended up doing a lot of
    Mac stuff for them after a while. Wierd. But still, EVEN THEN this
    MS-DOS compatibility thing was considered an issue by BYTE.

> Allan Duncan	ACSnet	 a.duncan@trl.oz
--
*** John Bickers, TAP, NZAmigaUG.        jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dtiberio@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio)
Subject: Re: OH MY GOD...I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I JUST SAW
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 05:58:22 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.182214.4922@ibmpcug.co.uk> george@ibmpcug.co.uk (Michael Veltman) writes:
>
>So,  If I'd like to mail 
>the big C= myself, and tell them
>that I love the Amiga, but dont
>like what's happening with it,
>
>How (or where) can I do this?
>
>Michael
>

	suggestions@cbmvax.commodore.com



-- 
      //   David Tiberio  SUNY Stony Brook 516-473-5156 AMIGA  DDD-MEN   
     //  bounce-resistant:    dtiberio%libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu@sunysb.edu
   \X/	    Perot for President 1-516-399-2259 Long Island, New York

 	PPPP  EEEEE RRRR   OOO  TTTTT    IIIII N   N      999  2222
	P   P E     R   R O   O   T        I   NN  N     9   9     2
	PPPP  EEEE  RRRR  O   O   T        I   N N N      9999  222
 	P     E     R R   O   O   T        I   N  NN         9 2
 	P     EEEEE R  R   OOO    T      IIIII N   N     9999  22222
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: Commodore and the Osborne Syndrome
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 04:06:48 GMT

jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
: This is INSANE.  What CPU was this implemented on?  Did it have an on-board
: MMU like the 386 or the 68030?  There's NO WAY those CPUs would experience
: that much of a slowdown.  I have a 386, and DOS applications under OS/2
: (full MP) don't run noticeably slower than they do under native DOS.
: Benchmarks indicate a slowdown of a few percent, no more.

CD-I's OS is CD-RTOS.  That's ONE of the ones I was talking about.
Percentages of slowdowns on a 68020 system's average was 58% on 12 apps.
Yes, I've got the little sheet we wrote out here when we ran through
several programs to see how much slower they were.

OS/9 was less than that, ranging from 38% to 52%, but THAT was on an
030 system with MMU.  Apps ranging from packers to wp's, various
system functions, quicksorts, etc.  App stuff.

And FYI, none of these were "benchmark" programs.

: It could be some incredibly bad hardware, too.  We were talking about adding
: MP to the Amiga, which as a 68030.

Or a 68020.

: Interesting.  And just how did you implement MP on a 68000?  If this was
: on a 68030 or a 68020+PMMU, maybe this indicates a flaw in the 68K line,
: because there sure isn't that much of a slowdown on the x86!

Make that a 2.  Sorry.  And no, it doesn't indicate a flaw.  You just
can't seem to get this through your head:  You didn't know of any
operating systems that had the option of running or not running under
MP, and you don't really know the difference between them.  I just
gave you two, so un-bury your head.

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :) :)
(:"The person who said size doesn't matter was probably a very small man":)
(:	gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu			Gregory R. Block         :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: Games on consoles
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:07:59 GMT

In article <mykes.0arh@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:

[ ]
>>
>> 	I think you underestimate PC games.  There are quite a few out there
>>    that are very nice.  Over the last few months I bought quite a few great
>>    PC games: Ultima Underworld, Star Trek the 25th Anniversary, Links 386 Pro,
>>    Red Baron, to name some.  The future of PC games looks even nicer, with
>>    great games on the horizon, like Strike Commander.
>>
>
>OK, looks like you mentioned 4 or 5 "must have" games for the PC.  Can anyone
>name one for the Amiga?

First of all I've never understood the obsession with any of those games
listed above [ have no idea about Strike Commander], nor Wind Commander, etc...
There are lot's of SNES games far better than these. Most golf games on 
computers are a waste. Links is truly no big deal. Mac Golf on the MacII was
ok (in colour) but it wasn't worth the money I spent on it.

As far as I'm concerned Lemmings on CDTV is better than all of the above.
So is Sonic on the Genesis, Super Mario V on the SNES, Adams Family,
CV IV on the SNES, etc...

Philip McDunnough
philip@utstat.toronto.edu
From: u2112539@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Marc Barrett is irrelevant.  Atari Falcon is REAL
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:28:42 +1000
Organization: University of New South Wales

In article <1992Jul22.013634.3503@cheshire.oxy.edu>, leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:
> Hmm... since 1040STe's are selling for $299 new retail, I don't suppose
> it beyond Atari's capabilities to design an '030 based machine for onluy
> $500 more... especially redoing much of the stuff from the ground up, and
> having the core of the OS already developed...
> 
> Think about it... with $300 Amigas, MMR could probably OEM them with
> installed accelerators for that price... and how much easier would it
> be to build it in?
> 
> Thom
> 
	Atari sales are $285 mill down from $411 last year. I think the
stupidity of anouncing the Falcon so early is yoing to hit them hard with the
Osborne syndrome. Ever heard of it ? Let alone if 1040SYe's are selling for
only that much ... looks like that is usualy the last method one uses to get
rid of it's stock. I have seen A64 for way under $100  ... wonder who thought
they's sell well and bought a bundle ...
	George
From: jhawes@everest.srd.bt.co.uk (Jason Hawes)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A50000 article
Date: 29 Jul 92 08:19:44 GMT
Reply-To: jhawes@srd.bt.co.uk
Organization: British Telecom

From article , by jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers):
> Quoted from <> by s915426@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Leanne Taylor):
>> kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.X. Saunders ) writes:
> 
>> >			The A4000
>> >		The Scoop on Commodore's Newest!
> 
>>Here we go again:-)When are we going to see in in the news columns of Amiga
>> World and Amiga Format etc...????

eeeerrr .. never
 
>     This K.X. Saunders must be thick as. Why on Earth do people post
>     articles if they're not reading the newsgroups? And this idiot
>     must not be reading the newsgroup, otherwise they'd have noticed
>     this article has come through before...

Well today I've waded through some 500 postings that have arrived since
friday (5 days) and I have to admit, I didn't read them all.
Did you ?

Mind you, even if it where true, it'd be too late (for me). If this sort
of product where already on the market I'd have brought mine by now, as
it is I'll just have to make do with a cheap PC clone .  . ..

Jaz.
From: dano@srl01.usl.edu (Dan Stephenson)
Subject: Re: 586/p5 not available in systems this year
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 06:05:09 GMT

cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:

>Found in comp.arch :

>Wall Street Journal, Thursday 23:

>'Intel delays debut of P-5 chip to refine production process & eliminate bugs'

>[...] Intel originally planned to introduce the P-5 and begin limited produc-
>tion in the fourth quarter of 1992. But it now plans to introduce the chip in
>the first quarter of 1993, said Paul Otellini, vice president in charge of 
>intel's microprocessor business.
>[...] Mr. Otellini said the postponement wasn't caused by any unexpected flaws
>in the P-5 or glitches in the manufacturing process, but added that it will
>allow intel extra time to test the chip for possible defects.


>I told you so.   :-)

Drat! Drat! And I was gonna insist on a 3.5"!!
Intels says they will have a very high initial production of it,
so the user from OTHER than IBm or Compaq or something will not
notice.

And drat again! :)

>-- 
>Colin Adams       Honours Student - James Cook University of North Queensland
>              "Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate."
--
Dan Stephenson|das9674@usl.edu masres10@ucs.usl.edu dano@srl01.cacs.usl.edu
Come all of you you/Who are not satisfied/As rulers in a lone wall/
papered room/Full of mute bird and flowers that /Falsely bloom/And
closets choked with dreams that long ago died,... --Judy Collins
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: engb@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Ben Eng)
Subject: Re: AmigaDroids will *never* change
Organization: Jet Penguin Lavatories
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:31:59 GMT

In <1992Jul21.025547.13061@seas.gwu.edu> gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:

>engb@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Ben Eng) writes:
>>gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>>>32 megs?!

>>Anyone running a full fledged Unix system with X11R5 and Open Look
>>or Motif running will undoubtedly consider 32 MB of RAM quite
>>nominal.

>Personal computers, please; let us speak of personal computers.

Hmmm... I personally don't see any distinction between what you
call a "personal computer" an a "workstation".  There may have
been in the past, but I believe the differences are harder to
define now.  Certainly, you can go to the trouble of saying that
there are enormous differences between high end workstations
(Sun SS10) and low end PC's (Amiga 500), but that is not being
fair to the middle ground (Amiga 3000 versus Sun IPC or NeXT).

I sure find the low end sparcstations (and other low end
RISC workstations) quite personal.  If I had the cash to
plop down on another computer right now, I would certainly
have a hard time deciding between the two.  To tell the
truth, something running Unix with 32 MB of RAM, X11R5, and
ethernet would probably win out.

Ben
-- 
e-mail: engb@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca or ben@jetpen.gts.org (Ben Eng)
UofT EngSci 9T2                   ``We are all masochists here.''
Home: (416)-979-8761, (416)-979-7885
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy