HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Wow! I can't believe the inspiration here! :)
Date: 7 Sep 92 15:06:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Intermetrics Inc, Cambridge MA

In article <5502@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> jsl+@pitt.edu (John S Lundberg) writes:
>In article <22214@galaxy.ucr.edu> samari@watserv.ucr.edu writes:
>>The reason why swimming is not goo for losing fat, is that the body
>>is constantly losing heat in the water, and it needs the added
>>insulation to keep it warm.  
>
>I have to wonder about this...it seems to me that if your body
>is losing heat in the water that that heat must come from somewhere.
>Also, swimming places little strain on the joints in contrast to
>activities such as running which may be a plus for someone who is
>carrying extra weight.  

Nobody said you didn't expend calories while swimming.  The theory is,
that like seals, humans tend to keep a subcutaneous layer of fat to
minimize heat loss to the water (which is usually colder than body
temperature).

In his PBS special, Covert Bailey pointed out that one of the problems
with swimming, as it applies to fat burning (NOT fitness), is that it
uses primarily the upper body muscles.  I wouldn't have believed this
except they did such a good job with the underwater cameras at the
Olympics that you could see that the strong freestyle swimmers were
practically *dragging* their legs!  

The other problem for fat people is that their extra fat actually makes
it easier for them to stay afloat, which ironically makes it easier to
swim!  I had to swim 100 yards (5 laps) in order to sign up for a 
rowing program recently.  I thought, no problem.  Well, I had lost close
to 100 lbs since I had swam last, and I'll tell you, that 100 yards
was much harder without the extra fat to keep me floating :-).

>I also wonder whether the actual calories burned in exercise is
>really as important as breaking sedentary habits and establishing
>new ones.  If one enjoys swimming then that's probably what one
>should do.  

I agree 100%.  You can lose fat and become fit swimming--but you can
probably do both things faster (and with less mental stress if you
don't want to be seen in public in a bathing suit :-) if you pick
a different exercise such as cycling or walking.

I've always hated walking.  But I signed up for the same VLCD as Peter
Brooks, and they required a minimum of 2000 calories a week of PA--
physical activity.  So I started walking.  And I'm still walking--usually
I do 9 miles a day (3x3).  According to my calculations, I have
lost about 60 pounds since January, just from the walking alone.

Beth Mazur                   "...life is more than a vision.  The sweetest
mazur@inmet.inmet.com         part is acting after making a decision."
...!uunet!inmet!mazur                                  -- The Indigo Girls
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: GC.AVW@forsythe.stanford.edu (RAGIN CAJUN)
Subject: Re: vacation from hell
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 09:16:59 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.130849.10650@newstand.syr.edu>,
mprisco@lynx.cat.syr.edu writes:
>
>Well, I thought I'd post this since I hadn't done a status
>update and wanted some ideas on how I SHOULD have handled
>this vacation....
>
>First, status: total loss so far 66.5 lbs.  But....I have not
>been exercising and have lost the last 10 lbs ONLY becuase
>I was under alot of stress (I don't eat when I'm really
>nervous...but its not a fun way to lose...).  Meanwhile,
>I haven't been eating well and have just totally lost
>my exercise motivation.  I even got my brother to lend me
>his bicycle that he never rides, but I'm just not motivated
>to use it!
>
>Anyway, the vacation:  we did a New England trip this weekend.
>We stayed at a relative's on Saturday and that was OK.  We
>hit a grocery store so I was able to get my lite
>salad dressing and frozen yogurt.  But then we went on to
>Boston....first off, for me Boston isn't an "eater's"
>city since I don't like traditional Boston fare...(broiled,
>boiled, etc).  But we were there with a friend and
>around 4 pm I was getting hungry (had only ahd a 1/2
>bagel that day) so I suggested some frozen yogurt figuring
>I'd save my WW exchanges for dinner.  Well, our friend
>was hungry too and wanted chinese so I said "is this
>lunch or dinner?" and they (the guys...) said "a snack!"
>So I ordered won ton soup but didn't realize how hungry I
>was until the rest of the food came.  I went bad on the
>fried rice!  And, yes, I found out that I cannot tolerate
>greasy food any more.....  About 4 hours later the guys were
>ready for dinner....  I was still feeling kinda sick but we
>went to the No Name restaurant, and since I don't care much
>for sea food, I had a club soda and wound up eating
>my husband's cole slaw ( more guilt!) since the place
>didn't serve salads and the only side dishes were cole
>slaw and french fries!  I finally got my frozen yogurt (at 10pm).
>But I was shocked at how much lack of control I had in the
>chinese place!  I love chinese and hadn't had it in at least
>9 months but......I knew I shouldn't be eating that stuff,
>I think I just waited too long to eat!  I haven't done
>anything like that since I started WW!  Bummer.  At least I
>walked alot.  Sorry this is so long!
>
>Margot
>
>--
>=====================================================================
>=          H A V E   A   D A Y             :|                       =
>=====================================================================

Sounds like you made the best of a bad situation.  I am diabetic and
can't go for very long without eating and when I am someplace where
there is no "diet" food available I just take what I figure is the
best I can do.  I, of course, will choose something like cole slaw
over something that may contain sugar, but it is the same thing I
know I shouldn't have it, but I have to have something.  My SO said
I use hypoglycemia to be a bitch.

Alma
From: alyoung@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu (Amy Young Leith)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Always a new issue!
Date: 5 Sep 92 03:31:39 GMT
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington

In article <weceGxO00WBMQ7FnBs@andrew.cmu.edu> Cory Harper Jacques <cj14+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
[...]
>So that's one issue which is tied up in my self image that seems to sway
>with the time of day. Sometimes I feel very good about what I have
>accomplished and feel great and other times I worry that my weight loss
>is temporary or that I don't look any different or feel any different.
>Lately my moods and self image seems so unstable...as if you couldn't
>tell.
>
>So that's what's up...I do feel good about all of the changes, but I
>also feel uncomfortable in the new way people are looking at me and the
>way people are approaching me. Maybe weight really does keep people at a
>distance - I had read that theypry before but never believed it...
>Cory

I understand where you are coming from.  In high school I lost
approximately 60-70 pounds, in a rather small time span (5-6 months).
The difference in the way I was treated in society in general was
amazing.  I was always helped IMMEDIATELY in a store, especially by
male clerks, I was never brushed off as before, and I was much more of
an *object*.  This last one made me uncomfortable then, and the others
made me rather pissed off, in general.  

I regained that weight, and now I want to lose it again, and I am
preparing myself for the change, once again.  Yes, the weight DOES
keep others at a distance, both physically and socially, I believe.  

amy

-- 
alyoung@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu for personal mail
			    All business mail to alyoung@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       I only speak for myself.  Anyone who thinks differently is a fool.
From: lmc@duke.cs.duke.edu (Lynn Mueller Canaday)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Fat Substitutes
Keywords: Simplesse, etc.
Date: 15 Sep 92 18:25:55 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.

Hey All!  Hope the lifestyle changes are going well!

I just read an article in the September issue of Runner's World about
fat substitutes.  It talks about Simplesse and other fat sub's.  I will
quote some of it here since there has been some interest in Simplesse
raised here.  The following is taken directly from the magazine:

     "Starch from potato and maltodextrin form corn are fat substitutes that
can replace virtually all of the fat found in foods such as dips, salad
dressings, frozen desserts and margarine spreads.  These substitutes carry
only 1 to 4 calories per gram, reducing the 9 calorie per gram that fat
contains by over half.  And because starches and dextrins are stable at 
high temperatures, they can be substituted on baked products such as
pastries and cakes."

skip paragraph

     "Proteins are also used as fat replacements, the most notable being
Simplesse from the NutraSweet Company.  Simplesse is made from egg whites
or milk protein, which is processed to form tiny spheres called
microparticulated protein.  These spheres give food the same feel as fat
and are used in yogurt, cheese, frozen desserts and salad dressings.  And
microparticulated protein can be heated, so fat-free cheese made with 
Simpleese can be used to make hot foods such as Pizza, casseroles and
cheesecake."

     "Simplesse contains only 1 to 2 calories per gram - less than one-
fifth that of fat.  As a result, fat-free ice cream made with Simplesse
contains only 100 calories per serving and no fat.  It wins hands down
over standard ice cream, which is loaded with 240 calories and 14 grams
of fat per serving."

Anyway this is some of the very useful information I found in the 
mag, so if you are interested pick one up!  Good luck everyone!

Lynn
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: jfrawley@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Judy Frawley)
Subject: New To The Group
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 10:06:22 EDT


Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix)
Subject: Re: How do you walk that much?  (was Re: inspiration)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 14:30:11 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa

In article <24746@oasys.dt.navy.mil> dudley@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Karen Witkoski) writes:
>afterwards.  But after sitting for a while, then trying to get up, oooooh
>what pain.  I'm not sure why my heels hurt.  Does anyone have any comments?
>I bought good walking shoes that are well padded.  But this hasn't helped.
>I'm only 36 years old...not too old yet :).
>
>Karen

I would try two things. First I would try wearing an additional pair
of socks and see if the extra padding helps (also, be *absolutely
sure* that your shoes fit well)

Otherwise you may need orthotics, if the pain persists go to a sports
therapy clinic and get a professional involved!

Good luck!

rf

ps. When I quit smoking I walked 10-15 miles per day ( from sheer
frusteration!) in addition to my regular 5 mile run! I had sore feet
too!!!
From: klb@stiatl.salestech.com (Kathy Ball)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: How do you walk that much?  (was Re: inspiration)
Date: 8 Sep 92 20:05:17 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Sales Technologies, Inc.

mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur) writes:

>I've always hated walking.  But I signed up for the same VLCD as Peter
>Brooks, and they required a minimum of 2000 calories a week of PA--
>physical activity.  So I started walking.  And I'm still walking--usually
>I do 9 miles a day (3x3).  According to my calculations, I have
>lost about 60 pounds since January, just from the walking alone.

OK, Beth and Peter and anyone else who can do this, 
how do you walk 9 miles a day?  I've been trying
to exercise more, and I just run out of steam at about 3 miles of walking.

And where do you find the time to walk that far?  There's a nice golf
course near my house, and if I walk all the way around it it's 3 miles.
I can't imagine going around it 3 times.  I'm prone to shin splints,
and I've got mild planar fascitis (I think that's how you spell it),
so I have to be careful when I walk to stretch out carefully and
thoroughly.

I'm sure both of those are worsened by all the excess weight I'm carrying 
around (~150 lbs), so I'd dearly like to dump the weight and fat, but
I'm horrible at diets.  One day on a very strict diet just makes me
irritable and dying to go eat something forbidden.  I've been slowly
changing my eating habits - I hardly ever eat butter, very little 
red meat, mostly veggies.  I've started keeping closer tabs on
my fat intake, which isn't too hard.  But I still eat too much fat.
I can take or leave sugar - sweet desserts are too much for me.

My weight has at least stabilized, and I've lost around 5 lbs in the
last 6 months, but given how much there is left to lose, I hardly
even notice the difference.

One more - what's a VLCD?  If it's Very Low Calorie Diet, I've been
considering doing something medically supervised and rather severe
just to get started so it's not so hard to move all this weight around.
Is that a good idea?  How do you find a good doctor for such a thing?

Kathy.

-- 
Kathy Ball                                             uupsi!stiatl!klb
Sales Technologies, Inc	                              klb@salestech.com
3399 Peachtree Rd, NE
Atlanta, GA  30326                               voice:  (404) 841-4159
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: leslie@cgrg.ohio-state.edu (Leslie Bishko)
Subject: Re: Water weight!?!?
Organization: Advanced Computing Center for the Arts and Design
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 18:21:06 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.145956.4127@m.cs.uiuc.edu> howard@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Bonnie Howard) writes:
>dianeg@bcm.tmc.edu (Diane Ellen Griffiths) writes:
>
>>Hi! Does anyone else have MAJOR problems with water weight? I can gain
> .......
>I seem to have the same problem with higher humidity and when the temperature rises - I 
>try to cut down on salt.  I have noticed that drinking caffeine and having sugar in the 
>diet seems to increase the problem too - 
>

I've found that going for a swim and sitting in the sauna afterwards
can provide some immediate relief.  I've had this trouble in humid
weather too, the last serious bout of it was in Dallas, coinciding
with Tex Mex food and alcohol!  Those days are over for me...

Another instigator can be dairy - yogurt and cheese are high in
sodium!  To get over this in a few days, go on a simple cleansing
regimen: cooked grains, steamed veggies, lots of water, and some
relaxing excercise such as walking, swimming, yoga.  The PMS
Self-help book (a large yellow paperback) has lots of info on fluid
retention.

 - Leslie


-- 
Leslie Bishko
leslie@cgrg.ohio-state.edu


Newsgroups: alt.support
From: jimd@m2xenix.psg.com (Jim Dorman)
Subject: Re: Why Live?
Organization: Pacific Systems Group, Portland Oregon US
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 07:33:08 GMT

Ed, allow me to add my thanks to Kathleen's for the poem.  I've been there,
too, and even after 2 years there are times when I'm reminded that it isn't
"all over with".  It took a long time for me to see the points you made, but
I'm glad I'm still here, and plan to stay awhile.  

Thanks again.


Jim the Juggler, a.k.a.:  jimd@m2xenix.psg.com
Newsgroups: alt.support
From: allanc@cs.su.oz.au (Restless Wanderer)
Subject: Re: Why Live?
Reply-To: allanc@cluster.cs.su.oz (Restless Wanderer)
Organization: Basser Dept of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 23:23:52 GMT

YOU have a dog called Taylor ?

Thats my altime favourite first name.I use it oftern just for the sake of
not using my name.

I read your post with much empathy and guilt.I can feel what you feel
and can see the same logic.
I tried to kill myself recently(almost made it ),but upon reflection
I am glad that I failed.My attempt was not a cry for help,merely the
supposition that I didn't matter.Although only 2 people are aware of what
happened,I still feel that I did matter to someone.

I'd ask you to consider writing to me whenever you feel low and down.
I have some knowledge about what you went and are going thru,I made it
through the rough times and I'd like to offer my ear for you.
I have found solice by being able to talk to someone so far removed from
my situation,that I can only suggest that it may work for you also.

Please take care 
allanc
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Newsgroups: alt.support
Subject: Re: Denial -- Update
Date: 10 Sep 92 01:30:07 GMT
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs

I'm back from Dallas and points beyond.

Integrating a _lot_ of information (a time consuming process since I
need to filter out my own reactions) it appears I was right, natch :-)
She had a lot of unspoken hopes/expectations about our trip to Mexico
last year and 'latched onto' someone when she got back because I didn't
respond as she hoped.

A year passes and she learns she does not have her act as together
as she thought....

This year she asked me several questions before I left (but after I
posted the original article) so I was able to be unambiguous in 
'renegotiating' our relationship.  She still refuses, but it is because
she refuses to believe my answers and she doubts herself.

Those questions are the key to this puzzle.... but it is extremely
hard to explain.  Pam (and I) are extremely intelligent but come from
environments where it was forbidden to ask for what we want, so we
'signal' others.  I used to do this, but over the past few years have
managed to make it much more conscious and explicit.  Pam still does
this -- and complains when I vocalize my desires!  (For instance, when
we reached the last few miles I made an off-handed comment about
'getting a hug, or even a kiss, for getting us there safely' (in part
because she has complained mercilessly about my driving since I spun
out on an icy interstate shortly after we met -- an interstate with
numerous accidents on the downslope lanes) and later made an open-armed
gesture (with an upraised eyebrow) as we carried our bags into the motel.
She snapped at me that she _would_ have probably/possibly hugged me but
not since I asked for it).  Considering her brother, who apparently
delighted in destroying things she cared about....

Anyway, she has been dropping 'hints' about what to say.  I don't
always follow them, but I'm aware of them.  One of these hints was
several questions for me -- questions which were extremely disturbing
because they showed she knows me much better than she has been letting
on.  (These were the type of questions which turn the world upside
down).

Had she not asked those questions, I would be wondering if I've
been deluding myself through selective memories, etc.  But those
questions are impossible to ignore... and she has refused to accept
my answers to them (and I get a sense that she is _afraid_ to
accept those answers).

BTW, that is what misled me in Mexico last year.  I could easily
read her 'signals,' but I didn't realize there was another entire
level below that.  Since she was too afraid to signal, and didn't
realize I couldn't read the more subtle signs at the time, she thought
I was rejecting her (and fears I am still rejecting her).

More later....


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov
Newsgroups: alt.support
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Subject: Re: Denial
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 00:16:50 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.164018.3495@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> davis@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Barbara Davis) writes:
>I'm asking that you just "try on" the notion that you are a rescuer of hurt
>women.  Only you will be able to tell if the label fits and if you reject it
>I won't bring it up again.

I don't think so, but this is a difficult question.  I do have 'unhurt'
friends (of both genders) but our relationships tend to be shallow
compared to those with 'hurt' friends.

Are the latter relationships deeper because of greater experience, or
simply because they are 'hurt' and I want to rescue them?  What about
the fact that I turn to these 'rescued' women for support of my own?

>You appear to feel that you can love someone enough to give them good self
>esteem.  You seem to be saying that if someone loved you as much as you love
>them and if they were as supportive of you as you try to be of them, all
>other issues of self-esteem would be healed.

Nope.

>It is my experience that self-esteem doesn't come from someone telling us we
>are worthwhile.  It comes from us telling ourselves we are worthwhile.  The
>more someone else tries to convince us we are great the more of our energy 
>goes into proving them wrong.  Soon we have no energy for anything else.

There's a difference between telling someone they are 'great' and 
telling them they aren't dog-shit.  I see your point, but I think
there is a middle ground.

>When someone tries to rescue us in the name of love, they actually rob us of
>the power to heal ourselves.  If one of these women you have been involved
>with tried to rescue you, you would be furious and would reject their
>efforts.

That depends upon _how_ you are rescued.  You yourself suggested 
non-destructive approaches in a later paragraph (listening without
offering advice, etc).

>This is why I think you are meeting so much of what feels like rejection to
>you.  You are so sensitive to the feelings of others.  You see their pain
>and you want to make it go away.  You are a giving and caring person and so
>you try and try to heal their pain.  The harder you try the more they push
>you away.

At least this week I wasn't trying to heal her pain.  I would like to
help her discover herself, but I know that is an _extremely_ painful
process.


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov
From: stef@Apple.COM (Stef Jones)
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
Subject: Hiding one's preferences (was Re: CHOOSING to be attracted to someone)
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:53:52 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

avery@netcom.com (Avery Ray Colter) writes:

>What happened in practice was
>that other people made so many comments about the girls I had eyes for being
>fat, and I started to become influenced by that. [...]
>So I wound up exploding, and turned on the people who were being the
>main pushers of this anti-fat "influence", and at the top of my lungs bellowed
>in their faces, "I like fat girls, SO BITE ME!" 

What were these people trying to gain by discouraging you from liking "fat
girls"? I've gotten the impression from my experience that many men are 
attracted to fat women, but feel the need to be secretive or dismissive 
about it. That is, they enjoy sexual contact and friendship with a fat
woman but don't want to be perceived as being in a relationship with one.

So where is the pressure coming from? If so many men are indeed attracted 
to fat women, how did this attraction get driven underground; by whom or 
what; to what end?

Disclaimer: I do not think this is true for all men. It is just a pattern I
noticed in my life for a while (fortunately, not recently).

--
Stef                 In the force if Yoda's so strong, construct a 
stef@apple.com       sentence with words in the proper order then 
                     why can't he?                         /fortune
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks