HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: timk@world.std.com (Tim King)
Subject: Re: Tradition
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 18:33:41 GMT

BKCOBB@LIFE.UAMS.EDU writes:

>Having attended an Assemblies of God church for the first 22 years of my
>life, I must have missed the tradition one could cut with a knife somewhere
>along the way.

Perhaps your church does not enforce such traditions, and if this is the case
then you are very fortunate.  However, many (most?) churches do subtly
promote their own flavor of "tradition," and any one who doesn't agree with
them is looked down upon.

Does your church not only believe in the validity of speaking in tounges, but
also look down on those who do not?  In many pentacostal churches, people
begin speaking in tounges as if it were on cue.  They all know what, when, and
how, and although noone has taught them to react this way (I hope) they all
know the procedure.

A of G is very Wesleyan, if I'm not mistaken.  So, if a Baptist should enter
your doors, would your church members jump all over him for his Calvanistic
beliefs?  You do know, of course, that he has just as much biblical reason
to believe as he does as the A of G can present for their position.

What would happen if your pastor one day decided to put the offering at the
beginning of the service instead of somewhere in the middle?  AWould half of
the congregation freak?

What if your church burnt down?  Could you survive without your church
building?

What if the only other place you could find to hold service was a church
down the street that had only a pipe organ?  What if that church would not
allow you to bring in a piano, Hammond, guitars, etc.?  (drums?)

I could go on, but I know that many people hold these things sacred.
Unfortunately, not one of the attitudes persented here is sanctioned
by scripture.

-TimK
-- 
Tim King                  |  Some of us favor logic in making decisions.
24 Myrtle Street          |  Some, emotions.  I, personally, get very    |\
Dedham, MA 02026          |  emotional about faulty logic! :-)           | >
timk@world.std.com        |                                             <>
From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Al Gore's (New Age) religious beliefs
Date: 13 Sep 92 08:25:03 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
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Tod,

You say, "amazing where you can find a little truth."  Isn't it though!
Even satan quoted scripture.

I have only read a little of the material Tex writes.  Basically I am not
into that kind of stuff.  However, I have read a lot of "New Age" materials
for apologetical reasons (I am from Ecotopia basically, although I haven't
lived there for years).

There are many similarities to Christian teachings in some "New Age" streams.
There are many reasons for this which in my opinion range from demonic parody
to borrowing in "good faith."  Some I think too, is just a reflection of the
light which enlightens every man.

Anthroposophy, Theosophy, some sects of Japanese Mahayana Buddhism, and various
ecclectic New Age groups have consciously borrowed from Christian teachings.
Of course, there are also those "churches" that have "New Age" world views (ple
ase don't ask me to go into this) with christian forms and terms - only the
meanings have been changed.
The purification thing can be a little scary.  Some groups believe that they
will have to help christians onto the next incarnation...   zane.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 03:18:39 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      Sola Scriptura

There has been some discussion on the list about the principle of
"Sola Scriptura" -- the assertion that nothing can properly be
called an article of the Christian faith unless it can be found in
or deduced from the Holy Scriptures. I have written an essay on the
subject, and I ask those interested in this dialogue to consider the
essay to be a part of the dialogue and to read it. To obtain a copy,
send the message GET SOLA SCRIPT to LISTSERV@ASUACAD. Note the
address. It is the same one you use to subscribe to the list, set
NOMAIL, etc.

 Yours,
 James Kiefer
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:46:00 GMT
From:         Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK
Subject:      Re: Spiritual Experiences

Date:     Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:57:00 N
From:     Wolfgang Hutter <HUTTER@EARN.DULRUU51>
Subject:  Re: Spiritual experience

>Could you be more specific as to what you count under 'spiritual
>experience'?

Wolfgang,

Sorry, I could have been clearer in what I meant but I am also looking for
other christians define such things, so I am trying to avoid excluding anyone.
What I am after I suppose is impossible to define in detail without it
sounding cranky or elitest or narrowing the field too much.

However, let's take as an example, how people experience their prayer time
and see if that makes it any clearer.

I hear people distinguish between "going through the motions" of prayer,
of how they feel when they have "really prayed" and a third set of experiences
when they have really felt as if there was another person there with them - God.
This other may hold them, just be there in the room or physically feel close
(like there is some one stood behind your shoulder but when you look round
there isn't)

Other examples I have been presented with are
- "seeing" Christ at a bus stop late on night and spending an hour talking;
- walking in the country and a third person appearing with a couple in the
  middle of nowhere - almost sounds biblical (!)

Do these examples help ?

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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:17:27 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Sheep hear one voice.
              11 Sep 1992 13:37:00 EST from
              <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>

Dear Dan Graham ;

AMEN!
And more ... He calls each one by NAME.
No generic sheep who call themselves by free spill, or is that free will?
Oh well, no such critter exists any who!!Only the Sovereign Lord who has
NO arms tied behind His back can and does call the shots.



Jesse
From: psyrobtw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: favorite scripture
Date: 11 Sep 92 01:47:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

for this season in my life it's:

Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
and lean not on your own understanding;
in all your ways acknowledge Him,
and He shall direct thy paths. 


Proverbs 3:3
From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: tradition
Date: 13 Sep 92 08:45:26 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
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X-Acknowledge-To: <FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET>

Most protestants I know of, feel pretty strongly about tradition too when
they get their tradition stepped on.  I have been to Assembly of God churches
(ever heard of them?) where you could cut the tradition with a knife.  I
have been to house churches (non-denom./non-protestant) where you didn't
mess with the traditions (outside of the Biblical record) they have con-
cerning the way and times the bread is broken and the wine distributed.

I don't think I have met witha church where there isn't some tradition -
even if the tradition is to have as little tradition as possible.  That is
tradition too!

Why do so many protestants bow their heads when they pray, and close their
eyes?  That is tradition.  Why do R.C. brothers and sisters cross themselves?
Why do protestants say, O Lord...and Lord...O Lord...in the name of Jesus
Christ, amen?  That is all tradition.

Tradition in itself isn't good or bad, just like the Bible.  It can either
bring life or minister death.  If it ministers Life, fantastic!  If it
smells like the rat traps around here, great!  Maybe it will get a few people
to move out and sniff the Rose.
                                          traditionally yours, zane.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sat, 5 Sep 1992 11:56:10 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      book recommendation--Glastonbury

Hi all:

I have just gotten around to starting Glastonbury: The Novel of Christian
England, by Donna Fletcher Crow, and I must tell you that it is, so far,
fantastic.  It begins with Joseph of Arimathea moving his little band
to Britian, and it follows the genesis of Christianity in the British
Isles.  Along the way, there are a great many interesting pieces of
Christian history and remembrances of the Gospel.

I recommend it highly; I greatly look forward to continuing with it over
this long weekend (don't be intimidated by its size--849 pages.)  It is
very well written and draws you in quickly.  Well worth the sore wrist.

The way she writes the flight of Joseph also made me think about something.
Joseph leaves, essentially out of fear for his life and that of his family,
during the persecution by Saul of the Jews.  However, he convinces his
people to leave by referring to the Lord's command to "preach the gospel
to all nations."  Hence, the persecution is in some sense a stimulus
for the following of the Great Commission.  It has occurred to me that
Crow may have something here.  When persecution comes, must everyone stand?
My mind opens to a prompting of the Spirit--"some must stand, some must
flee, some must fight."  As an Anabaptist, I have no problem with the first
two.  But I at first rebel at the third.  Then it becomes clear; different
groups of Christians are led by God to follow Him in different ways.  Though
I cannot do so, some Christians are called to be soldiers.  Though they may
be unable to do so, I am called to stand (and, if needed, die).  Though
others may seem cowards, their flight, too, is a fulfillment of the will of
the Lord, to move His purpose forward.  What we absolutely *cannot* do is
deny Him.  As we follow His word absolutely, we are led to different tasks.
He has His plans, and we can know only that we are following Him.  We may
not always know why.

Praise God for leading me to this book and through it, to a greater
understanding of His commands.

Love INC,
         --Kerry
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 09:33:16 CDT
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      RETURN OF CHRIST

 John...
 I believe what the BOOK says about Jesus' return...
 I'll quote from the KJV
 --------
 "WATCH THEREFORE, FOR YE KNOW NOT WHAT HOUR YOUR LORD DOTH COME"
 MATT 24:42
 -------
 -------
 Hal Camping might be a minister of the Gospel, but... that still
 doesn't discount the fact that he needs to look in up in the BOOK.
 uh... Christ himself stated the above verse.
 Believe that HE should know... after all, he IS JESUS>
 Smile, John... God Loves ya!
 Theresa ("G FORCE") Blackwell

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 14:39:00 EST
From:         "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>
Subject:      More Arbitrary.

Brian,

I know the Webster definition, however, in everyday speech, the word
"arbitrary" has a huge measure of randomness to it.  Most people think that
an arbitrary decision means one that is done "just because."  You are
correct about the word in its absolute meaning, however, I still object to
it in the context we are discussing because of the connotation placed on it
by most people.

Dan Graham
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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 08:22:29 CDT
From:         Tom Brewer <NOTTMB@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Re>Catholicism ?s
              14 Sep 1992 17:40:06 EDT from <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>

Leo:

Thanks for your input.

I'm curious as to how something popular in the world "with the people" can
be "made Christian." I understand that is not your statement, but rather a
quote you provided.

I also failed to mention at the wedding prayers were offered for the
ancestors of the bride and groom. That one really threw me. Especially
disconcerting was when the priest offered a prayer for the bride's recently
murdered sister.

From what I seem to understand about death in Scripture, man is appointed to
die once and after that comes judgment. I see nothing to signify our prayers
being used to change the status, help the status, relieve the suffering of
the dead. Why would prayers for the dead be offered at a wedding?

Tom Brewer
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 18:30:09 EDT
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         Angela Zimmerman <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Secular Humanism

Item Retrieval Assistant, DADS
Phone: 588-6757


> Angela Zimerman is proposing to post "a flyer that has the beliefs
> of the secular humanists." I have no objection to her doing so, but
> I should like to point out that there is no Secular Humanist
> organization, or any recognized leader. Most of those who say, "I am
> a Secular Humanist," mean simply, "I do not believe in God or any
> alleged supernatural entities or events." Those who do not believe
> in God will not necessarily agree with one another about what they
> do believe.
>      So, when you read it, do not think of it as "what Secular
> Humanists believe." Think of it as "what some Secular Humanists
> believe."

>  Yours,
>  James Kiefer


Hmm...let's see...what does it say here at the bottom of this flyer?

"Free Inquiry, P.O. Box 5, Buffalo, NY 14215"
"Distributed by Louisville Area Secular Humanists (LASH), P.O. Box 91554,
Louisville, KY 40291"

Hmm....that indicates that there is not one, but at least *two* organized
groups of secular humanists.  Do we have an organized religion of sorts
here?  I think so, although the secular humanists probably wouldn't admit
it.  I also think that the beliefs listed on the flyer are broad enough
to pretty much encompass anyone who claims to be a secular humanist.
I still haven't read all the mail from Christia that I have piled up,
but this post I wanted to make sure I responded to.  As soon as I finish
reading the rest of the mail, I will type the entire flyer out and post
it.
From: 78witherspoo@cua.edu
Subject: Re:      very weird rumor
Organization: The Catholic University of America
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 13:17:57 GMT

In article <CHRISTIA%92090509575595@ASUACAD.BITNET>,         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET> writes:
> Hi all:
> 
> A customer came in yesterday and told me something I do not yet believe.
> He has a secular friend who went to an Ozzy Osbourne concert last week
> at which he claims the following occured.  Can anyone *definitely*
> confirm or deny this:
> 
> At the concert, Ozzy brought his kids onstage, stated that he had become
> a Christian, and said that henceforth he will sing only Christian music.
> 
> This customer is someone I know fairly well.  Usually he is a reliable
> source of information.  However, on this one, I must have some independent
> confirmation before I can accept this rumor as true.
> 
> Any help?
> 
> Love INC,
>          --Kerry
__________________________________________________________________________
Kerry--

	While I can't confirm or deny that incident, I can tell you that Ozzy
Osbourne _has been_ a devout christian for most of his life.  His lyrics should
be enough to confirm this.

	A sample:

		"Crazy Train"

	Crazy, but that's how it goes
	Millions of people living as foes
	Maybe it's not too late
	To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

	Chorus:
	Make the wounds start healin'
	Driving me insane
	I'm goin' off the rails on the crazy train!
	I'm goin' off the rails on the crazy train!

All those rumors about biting heads off of doves and eating bats onstage are
just that-- rumors.

Love and good walking,

Tom Witherspoon

78witherspoo@cua.edu
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 12:46:59 EDT
From:         Leo W <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Double Meaning Prophecy

Jesse wrote: "By its inherent design, escatalogical Scripture references do not
and cannot have double meaning.
Double meaning exists only in Scripture when such a case is EXPLICITLY stated.
Otherwise, it does not exist, for we do not communicate thusly, and neither
does the Lord to us, on our terms."

For example,

"But I will send Elijah the prophet to you.  He will come before that great and
terrible day of the Lord's judging" (Malachi 4:5).

"John spoke freely and did not refuse to answer.  He said clearly, "I am not
the Christ ... I am not Elijah ... I am not the Prophet" (John 1:19-26).

"Jesus said ... if you will believe the things the law and the prophets said,
then you will believe that John is Elijah.  The law and the prophets said he
would come" (Matthew 11:7-15).

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo
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Date:         Sun, 13 Sep 1992 00:12:12 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Newsweek: Gays Under Fire
              13 Sep 1992 03:44:13 GMT from <kilroy@GBORO.GLASSBORO.EDU>

Nancy:

Could you please explain where you get the information that 10% of the
population is homosexual?

Thanks.

Love INC,
         --Kerry
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 12:47:49 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Election
              14 Sep 1992 04:25:01 GMT from <johnson@ELEC.UQ.OZ.AU>

Dear Craig Johnson ;

Tom Brewer and I are "Five-point" Calvinists, here at LSU in Baton Rouge, LA.
Where are you located, Craig?


In His Free and Sovereign Grace ;

Jesse Irwin Carnes
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Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 18:42:30 EDT
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         Angela Zimmerman <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Montel Williams Show

Item Retrieval Assistant, DADS
Phone: 588-6757

> I can find other ways of makin' money to support myself.
> Geez.....

Yeah, so can I, but selling drugs is an easy, fast way to make money.  It's
rather enticing to people who are looking for the easy way to fast cash.

> You're right... the kid in the audience had GUTS to
> ask that question!


I don't think it took guts at all to ask if the drug seller had any morals.
I think all it took was a heavy dose of self-righteousness, something that
we all suffer from, some more than others.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: timk@world.std.com (Tim King)
Subject: Re: Tradition (was Re: Second parousia in the past?)
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 02:18:34 GMT

nabil@cae.wisc.edu (Nabil Ayoub) writes:

>   John 21:25   And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if
>   they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could
>   not contain the books that would be written. Amen.

>So John The Evangelist, the author of this Gospel *clearly* states that
>there is *more* than what he has written in this gospel. So your "sola
>scriptura" is *in* contradiction with the Scripture itself!

Ahem...  This point has been answered quite nicely in James Keifer's essay
on the subject of Sola Scriptura.  It is in the Christia archives and can
be retrieved by sending the following command to the listserv:

        GET SOLA SCRIPT

-TimK
-- 
Tim King                  |  Some of us favor logic in making decisions.
24 Myrtle Street          |  Some, emotions.  I, personally, get very    |\
Dedham, MA 02026          |  emotional about faulty logic! :-)           | >
timk@world.std.com        |                                             <>
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:54:56 CDT
From:         Elizabeth Stevens <CCCAMPER@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Favorite Scripture
              10 Sep 1992 12:23:48 GMT from <laperla@BYRON.U.WASHINGTON.EDU>

On Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:23:48 GMT Juan Perla said:
>anyone?
>
>En Agape,
>juan

Juan, its hard to pick a *favorite* verse(s), but the ones that touch
me most deeply and are the most significant to me are Luke 23:42-47.

In Christ,
Elizabeth
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Date:         Sun, 13 Sep 1992 19:07:52 -0500
From:         CHRISTINEA@WINROCK.ORG
Subject:      study

Date:	13-SEP-92  7:02p
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  Date:    Sun, 13 Sep 1992 19:02:38 -0500 (CDT)
  From:    CHRISTINEA@WINROCK.ORG
  Message-Id: <920913190238.20403f59@WINROCK.ORG>
  Subject: STUDY
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    If you cannot express yourself
  well on each of your beliefs,
  work and study until you can.
  Strive to reexpress a truth of
  God to yourself clearly and
  understandably, and God will
  use that same explanation when
  you share it with someone else.
  But you must struggle,
  experiment, and rehearse your
  words to express God's truth
  clearly.  If you are not diligent
  and say, "I'll just borrow my
  words from someone else," then
  the words will be of no value to
  you or to others.
    Always make it a practice to
  stir your own mind thoroughly
  to think through what you have
  easily believed.  Your position is
  not really yours until you make
  it yours through suffering and
  study.

  Oswald Chambers -- MY UTMOST FOR HIS HIGHEST

  ===========================================================================
  Christine Ashby               Winrock International
                                Morrilton, Arkansas USA

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