From: ts2a+@andrew.cmu.edu (Thomas Omar Smith)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.rush-limbaugh,talk.rumors,alt.activism,alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: Anita Hill to Head EEOC
Date: 13 Nov 92 01:42:32 GMT
	<BxLvyA.24G@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

In article <1992Nov11.192822.27139@osf.org> Terri Buchman
<buchman@osf.org> writes:
>In article <BxK9K7.Mvn@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> Greg Trotter,
>greg@gallifrey.ucs.uoknor.edu writes:
>>P.S. You ever notice that companies will put EEO/AA on
>applications, ads,
>>etc.? Of course, this expands to mean "Equal Opportunity
>Employer/Affirmative
>>Action." Isn't this contradictory? If you have a quota system in
>place, it's
>>not equal opportunity.
>
>Yah right.  I have listened to people complaining about this for
>years.  I have heard people in my town complain about a close friend
>or relative who scored highly on the test for police/firemen etc.
>and then can't get a job because an AA was hired who scored much
>lower on the test.  This complainer lives in the suburbs, wants to
>be hired in the suburbs.  When I ask them to tell me how many
>minorities actually work in their community at that job they usually
>can't name any.
>
So the fact they don't happen to know the name of lots of
firemen/policemen proves their racist?

>I'll believe your complaints when:
>	Colleges do away with legacy admits (AA for rich white people -
>more spaces are held for the children for alumni at Ivy colleges
>than are held for all minorities put together.  Most be okay when
>some folks do it.)

Legacies generate huge amounts of money for colleges, since those whose
children attend a school as a legacy are far more likely to make alumni
donations.  Legacies are good business for colleges, not a form of
discrimination.

>	Redlining is done away with in financially strapped communities. 
>Why can't low income areas get small business loans.  Isn't the
>great conservative panacea supposed to be the small business person
>who builds a business by dint of sweat and blood.  So where's the
>money for people of color so they can pull themselves up.  (See
>Federal Government Study published this year detailing the failure
>of the banking industry to service communities of color.)  How come
>LA is still waiting for the SBA to dispense approved funds?  Will
>the folks in Florida have to wait as long?  What percentage of tax
>money paid by people of color actually goes back into their
>communities?

This is the whole point of Enterprise zones, as put forward by Jack kemp
and rejected by the Democratic Congress.  The government should focus
its efforts on bringing jobs to poor areas.  However, if it ever
actually did it, significant parts of the local population wouldn't have
to depend on the government for a handout, and democrats would lose
their seats.  So they stonewall all real efforts in this area and then
call the Republicans cold hearted for wanting to make people get off the
dole and into a job.

>	Women start making some gains in income.  We're still getting 68
>cents for every dollar a man makes.  Women are still overwhelming
>stuck in the pink collar ghetto/low paying wage jobs.  Less than one
>tenth of one percent of the CEO's in this country are women.  The
>percentages for people of color are equally bad.  If there are
>quotas, then where the hell are the quotees?

The 68 cent figure is one of the most biased figures ever generated.  It
does not count in the fact that many women choose to work part time (so
they can raise families) or that women may have to take extended time
off from a job for child bearing.  When men and women work the same job,
with the same experience and qualifications for the same length of time,
they are paid the same.  many studies have shown this to be the case. 
And where it is not the case the is legal recourse.

As for the CEO argument, how many women/minorities have the educational
base and the number of years working at this time to be CEOs?  Since
most of this started in the 60s, I think you'll find the number
surprisingly small, since there simply hasn't been enough time for them
to rise to that level.

>This sounds like the same old bullshit I've been hearing for years. 
>Americans talk a good game about believing in equality of
>opportunity and equal access.  But when put to an actual test they
>would rather believe that another person was given special
>preference than believe that a minority or a woman might just be
>able to do their job as well or better than they do.   Learn to
>share power or get the hell out of the way.

The first rule of power is: if you want it, take it.  Women and
minorities have been doing this for years, and continue to do so.  And
eventually it will balance out.  but you cannot get true equality
overnight.  And you really can't get true, lasting equality using an
arbitary quota.  Equality demand both social and legal evolution, and
that process is ongoing.  IN the meantime, excuse me if I try and stop
short sighted people from destroying the process with their holier than
thou attitudes and ill conceived concepts of equality.

					Tom the non hacker
					Kemp in 96!
					"If patriotism is the last refuge
					of scoundrels,  Then environmentalism
					is the current refuge of totalitarians."
					Bob Jackson
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