HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bjpocock@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Beastor the Mad)
Subject: Regulations concerning Amway in Ontario
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: kw
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 20:18:45 GMT

There seems to be alot of interest in the Regulations surronding Amway.  Amway
is not a pyramid scheme!  A pyramid is a scheme whereby an individual pays for
the right to recruit additional persons into the scheme who in turn, receive
the same right to recruit others.

Three common elements of a pyramid scheme have been identified as: (1) a large
required initial investment or purchase of inventory; (2) direct payment for
the recruitment of additional persons in the scheme; and (3) heavy emphasis
on the recruitment of additional persons with little or no emphasis on the
sale of the product.

The Amway Sales and Marketing Plan contains none of the above described 
elements.  Distributors of AMWAY products earn monies by selling products
to their retail customers and other distributors in their sales organization,
not from the introduction of additional persons into the business.  AMWAY
distributors who require large initial investments in sales kits or inventory
and do not properly emphasis retail sales of AMWAY products may invite
scrutiny under various provincal pyramid laws.

In summary, it is mandatory that distributors of AMWAY products present the
AMWAY sales and Marketing Plan in accordance with AMWAY literature and sales
aids, properly emphasize retail selling, and only require purchase of the
literature portion of the Amway Sales Kit to enter the business.  IT is 
important to realize that simple and innocent changes made by well-meaning
distributors could violate these laws.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As you may note... I did not present the Marketing Plan to anyone as of yet...
and I certainly have not said that getting people is how you make money up
front.  YOu make money by selling products through your distributors and
by selling them yourself.  It is fairly large difference there.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: kw.general,uw.general
From: bowerman@dial.uwaterloo.ca (Bob Bowerman)
Subject: Funky Blues Band coming to town.
Reply-To: bowerman@dial.uwaterloo.ca
Organization: U of Waterloo, Dept. of Systems Design
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 16:58:25 GMT

Hi Everyone:

School got you down? Sick of getting ready for the midterm crunch. Well
if you want a good break from everything, c'mon down to Pop the Gator
on Thursday night. A band called Incity Dreams is playing. The main
emphasis of the music is funky blues and it is quite a lively and enjoyable
set.

Why am I posting this? A couple people in the band are friends of mine
from way back in my Ottawa days. This is their first tour of SouthWestern
Ontario and I'm trying to help them out. 

-- 
I don't care if my signature does not have zen nature, as long as
it has got sig.nature!

Bob (bowerman@dial.uwaterloo.ca)


Newsgroups: kw.general,uw.general
From: bjpocock@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Beastor the Mad)
Subject: Re: Small Business Oportunity
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: kw
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 12:48:39 GMT

>If it's so wonderful, why not post all the details here that you
>would give if we were to go to one of your meetings?

There are many reasons.  One, it is too hard to show over email.  At meetings
I can draw pictures and elaborate far better. If people really are interested,
then I expect they want to know the whole story, not just part of it.  Can you
imagine explaining any business to some potential investors via EMAIL and
getting interest.  I doubt it.

Two, people that go are definately kindof interested.  I can give them
informations and tapes and reference material while they're there.

Three, I don't trust my writings skills to try and tell people about the
business.

Reason number 1 and 3 are the main ones.

Newsgroups: kw.general
From: jklancto@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (Kevin Lanctot)
Subject: Where can I donate used clothes
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: kw
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 23:45:11 GMT

I have some clothes that are still in good condition but I don't
wear them anymore.  Does anyone know of a place in KW were I can
drop them off. (Preferably a place close to the University of 
Waterloo).

-- Kevin Lanctot




Newsgroups: kw.general,uw.general,tor.general
From: bjpocock@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Beastor the Mad)
Subject: Small Business Oportunity
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: kw
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 19:09:59 GMT


Ok... here's a chance for anyone wanting to start a small business with 
practically no capital.  The business is in distribution networking, and
is really easy to do.  There is no door-to-door sales nor telephone stuff.
It is MEGA easy to do.  It costs very little money.  Many people will help
you... in both training and understanding the business -- FREE!  There is
never any obligation on your part to do anything.  You are never pushed into
doing it, if you don't want to.

I'm only telling you this cause I think there are many people out there.  As
I've said above... I make no money by you joining.  In fact, I probably spend
about 10 hours with people and do numerous meetings and other crap with
everyone which is interested.  Keep you mind open, and give me a call.  There
are numerous ways I can get you started.  I can bring you to a meeting, do
a 1 on 1 with ya, or even take you to a huge gathering were the big guys talk
about how they made it.

The organization that does this makes about 4 billion a year in gross income,
is completely debt free, and has 800,000 people in it.  This is not a scam
operation.  Fortune 500 rated this one of the TOP 10 small business operations
in the world to begin.

Give me some private E-mail, or phone 725-4461 and ask for Ben.  I'll answer
your questions as best as possible and discuss it with you.

Newsgroups: kw.general,uw.general,tor.general
From: idallen@watcgl.uwaterloo.ca (Ian! D. Allen [CGL])
Subject: Re: Small Business Oportunity -- fervour means cult (?!)
Reply-To: idallen@watcgl.uwaterloo.ca (Ian! D. Allen [CGL])
Organization: Computer Graphics Lab, University of Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Distribution: kw
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:35:13 GMT

>judging from the fervor(sp?) and zeal of MLM types, i would wonder if this
>is a business, or a religious cult?

Am I seeing the implication that zeal and fervour don't belong in a business?

Or that zeal and fervour are cult-ish and therefore a Bad Thing?

How dull and pastel life is getting!  Whatever happened to zeal and fervour?
-- 
-IAN! (Ian! D. Allen)  idallen@watcgl.uwaterloo.ca  [129.97.140.64]
 Computer Graphics Lab/University of Waterloo/Ontario/Canada (519)888-4534
Newsgroups: kw.general
From: brea9430@mach1.wlu.ca (breadner kenneth cecil joseph u)
Subject: Re: Women's Prison
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 15:32:12 GMT

Paul Cormier (pcormier@bfield.uucp) wrote:
: Does anyone live near the newly proposed women prison that's going up in south
: Kitchener?
: 
: Personally I don't think that was a very smart choice when there is land
: available on the outskirts of the town with no body around it.  An even better
: idea, one that should have been put forward a long time ago would be to put
: them all in 1 central *ISLAND* isolated somewhere... up north!  Who cares about
: their rights?  Why does the prisons have to be scattered around the country...
: so that they can be closer to whatever friends/family they have?  Nah, just
: doesn't cut it.


Well, well, well.

Let's put it this way. If all the prisons were concentrated, any residents
in their midst would be even more offended than you are. Also, the area
would become a ghetto. This is not desirable--for the sake of the prisoners.

Now, just because they have run afoul of the law doesn't make them any less
human beings. Especially in this case. Less than 4% of the women in Canadian
prisons today are there because they committed some violent crime. Of that
4%, I'd bet lock, stock and barrel that at least half of them rose up
righteous and beat the crap out of their boyfriends/husbands who put them
through hell and back. I don't condone killing, but their are arguments for
justifiable homicide in cases where the perpetrator has been abused beyond
belief...or repair.

Not in my back-yard, hmmm? This 19th-century attitude makes me want to throw
up. Do you think sir, that if we just lock them away the problem will
disappear and you can go back to your WASP world where everything is
perfect?

I close with a snatch of song: Spirit Of The West's "(Putting Up With) The
Joneses":

...Lock  'em up, and throw away the key, boys,
The Joneses, they're not like you and me. 
Lock 'em up tight, 'cause if they had the chance they might
Show us that we're wrong and that's the one thing we can't be...

: 
-- 
KEN BREADNER: student lunatic. Opinions expressed herein are mine, unless
they aren't, in which case, well, they aren't. Wilfrid Laurier University:
'abandon hope, all ye who enter here!' --Waterloo, Ontario, Canada. 
"2+2=5, the future is behind us and the past is on its way. Please hold."
Newsgroups: kw.general
From: timk@tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (Tim Kuehn)
Subject: Re: Small Business Oportunity
Organization: TDK Consulting Services
Distribution: kw
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:47:06 GMT

[uw.general deleted from the article, since this doesn't belong there]

In article <BvE6r7.30n@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> bjpocock@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Beastor the Mad) writes:
>>>practically no capital.  The business is in distribution networking, and
>>>is really easy to do.  
>>Can you say Amway? NuSkin? Network Marketing? Multi-level Marketing? 
>>Yawn.
>Yes, in fact it is Amway.  Why you dislike it so much is beyond me.  Then
>again, just because you don't like it doesn't mean other people won't like
>it.

No, but then again I've been to more than one of their presentations. 
And you know what? I have *yet* to be told what products they sell! All 
I get is a lot of smoke blown into my nether regions saying "Hard Work -->
Get rich! Make money! Make money! Make money!" The presentations have been 
so materialistic it's mind numbing.

The other aspect of Amway's typical recruiting techniques was the high-
pressure, secretive (almost deceptive) tactics they seem to like so much. 
I actually got suckered out to Mississagua once to meet with what I thought 
was a prospect for some computer work. WRONG. That experience taught me to 
*never* agree to meet with anyone who's not willing to tell me up-front 
what it is they want to talk about. (Turns out this character did the 
same thing to a few other computer professionals in the area as well.)

Now, if someone actually had the guts to drop all the stuff that's designed
to appeal to my greed factor and showed me some of the products I could get 
better for cheaper, and were worth selling to other people, then you may get 
my interest. Something like that could be sold. Things *I* can get if 
someone else buys things from me *can't*.

>I'm not trying to sell anyone anything... those that are interested will
>reply.  Those that are not, won't.  Those that are interest will go to
>a meeting for an hour or I'll come over and tell it to you personally.

Personally, I know the whole story about downstreams, etc. etc., but
I'll put it bluntly that you'll never get my attention until you can 
show me there's something worth selling in there.

>Just don't let people who are close-minded change your mind.  

No need for that, the Amwaysians did that all by themselves.

>Remember, if you were to start up any business, many people 
>would think that you didn't have a chance.

I did start a business. And six years later I'm still here. :-)
But then again, I don't base all my decisions on what other 
people think either.

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Tim Kuehn | TDK Consulting |(519)-888-0766| 				|
| <><       | Services       | timk@tdkcs.uucp timk@tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca|
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: kw.general,uw.general
From: mskucher@math.uwaterloo.ca (Murray S. Kucherawy [MFCF])
Subject: Re: Small Business Oportunity
Organization: Math Faculty Computing Facility, University of Waterloo, Canada
Distribution: kw
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:19:59 GMT

bjpocock@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Beastor the Mad) writes:
>ONE... it is perfectly LEGIT in 44 countries (including US and CANADA).

So are a lot of scams that (for example) travel agencies get away with.
Legal loopholes.  Doesn't mean it's right.

You'll have to give a lot more information before people (well, at least I)
will stop being skeptical.
Newsgroups: kw.general,uw.general
From: rbutterw@math.uwaterloo.ca (Ray Butterworth [MFCF])
Subject: Re: Small Business Oportunity
Organization: Math Faculty Computing Facility, University of Waterloo
Distribution: kw
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:21:23 GMT

In article <BvE694.2LH@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> bjpocock@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Beastor the Mad) writes:
>>If it's so wonderful, why not post all the details here that you
>>would give if we were to go to one of your meetings?
>
>One, it is too hard to show over email.
>... Can you
>imagine explaining any business to some potential investors via EMAIL and
>getting interest.  I doubt it.

But your original posing said:
   Give me some private E-mail, or phone 725-4461 and ask for Ben.  I'll
   answer your questions as best as possible and discuss it with you.

>Three, I don't trust my writings skills to try and tell people about the
>business.

I don't think it's difficult or requires a lot of skill to list a few
details such as the name of the company, or the types of product(s) sold
or service(s) provided by the company.

You spent 4 lines telling us that the business is in the Fortune 500
top 10 for small businesses.  Wouldn't giving the name of the company
have been a lot simpler, easier, and and look a lot less like you are
trying to hide something?
Newsgroups: kw.general
From: marshall@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (Jim Marshall - DCS)
Subject: Re: Women's Prison
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:35:01 GMT

In article <BvFyuG.AC4@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, afleming@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca (Allan Fleming) writes:
> Paul Cormier (pcormier@bfield.uucp) wrote:
> > Does anyone live near the newly proposed women prison that's going up in south
> > Kitchener?
> > 
> > Personally I don't think that was a very smart choice when there is land
> > available on the outskirts of the town with no body around it.  An even better
> > idea, one that should have been put forward a long time ago would be to put
> > them all in 1 central *ISLAND* isolated somewhere... up north!  Who cares about
>                                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > their rights?  Why does the prisons have to be scattered around the country..  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Bet he cares at lot about his own rights though...
> 
> -- 
> Allan Fleming - afleming@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca
************************************************************************

Why should the rights of the inmates be of paramount concern, if I felt
sorry for anyone being stuck "out in the wilderness", it would be the
guards and their families.  The inmates are there for a finite period,
usually several years or less, the guards could be there for 30+.
Anyways I think there could be a fairly easy solution, concentrate
prisons, ie reduce the number, place them near but not in large urban
centres, which have the necessary transportation.

jim m.
***********************************************************************



Newsgroups: kw.general
From: wool8657@mach1.wlu.ca (john woolsey 9209 U)
Subject: Re: Women's Prison
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 01:26:42 GMT

In article <BvCAsE.1Fp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> eboritz@watarts.uwaterloo.ca (Efrim Boritz) writes:
>> [stuff about prison in town]
>This just begs a response (even if just to show that someone doesn't
>agree with these inhumane (for lack of a better word) views).
>
>Sure, let's go back to penal colonies (maybe even debtors prison?).
>Or, since criminals should have no rights, lets sell them into slavery.
>Even better, since it is a womens's prison we are talking about, let's
>open a state run brothel and have them earn their keep.

I would hate to sound anti-personal, and this really doesn't have to do
with a woman's prison. But don't you feel slightly sorry for the people
who have to worry about escapees causing problems. For example that guy
who recently escaped and raped some woman. Yeah he can't reform because
everyone keeps saying he is such a mean guy. Well it doesn't seem like
he is getting there. I wouldn't want to live across the street from a
prison, and I think that most people will back me up on this one. The
person HAD a trial they were convicted of the crime. They knew the
penalties before they were convicted, and now they have to live with
them. I don't have a heck of a lot of simpathy for them. Tough. They
will get out eventually, and then they again will have the chance
to do something about it.

>Was that knee-jerk enough?
>Nick.
Newsgroups: kw.general
From: bdcrafto@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Brad Crafton)
Subject: REQUEST - List of BBS's in the K/W Area
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: kw
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 18:25:48 GMT


I saw such a list posted here last year.  Could someone please repost
an up to date list (if one exists).

Thanks,

Brad

-- 
-----
Brad Crafton                            bdcrafton@descartes.UWaterloo.CA
3B Actuarial Science, University of Waterloo, Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
Newsgroups: kw.general,uw.general
From: bjpocock@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Beastor the Mad)
Subject: Re:Small Business Opportunity
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: kw
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:39:40 GMT

Ok... I just wanted to say I made a few mistakes.  Indeed, I am new to EMAIL
and new to Amway.  I bent the net rules a bit... I didn't think this would
turn out to be a flame war.

I'll list the mistakes I made so people don't have to flame me for them:
1.	Left out Amway's name.  This lead to suspicion about business.
2.	Said I don't make any money from getting you to join.  This is
	the truth, as I don't make any money unless you make money. However,
	people were put on the defensive immediately when I said this.
3.	I should have made it more clear that this is not a once in the life
	opportunity, nor is it a get rich quick scheme.
4.	Should have stated that Amway is often thought of with misconceptions,
	but is legal, has been in business for 30 years, is in 44 countries,
	had a court case with Customs Canada but won, and uses a device
	similar to the "ladder" or "pyramid" scheme but not quite.
5.	Allows you to buy items for wholesale price... one of the main reasons
	to join.
6.	Should have been more forward with my views to this business.

Hopefully... flames will end here.  Maybe some of you who were in doubt may
change your mind a bit, and allow me to drop off information or get a meeting
with you.

Last... the big mistake I made was to post this article in a medium which
allows for critical response.  My objective (I've said for all my articles
that I've posted) was to simply get I'm interested. I have had quite a few of
those... so my objective was achieved.  I'll let people decide for themselves
whether they like it or not, not by some story they heard somewhere from
some person.  Most of the flames have completely mixed up what Amway is like.
I regret this has happened, but I should have known.  If you want to know what
it is really like, give me a call or email me to set up an appointment or
drop off some information.
 
Newsgroups: kw.movies
From: jadischk@53iss5.Waterloo.NCR.COM (Alfred Jadischke)
Newsgroups: kw.jobs,ont.jobs,can.jobs
Subject: Software Quality Assurance Analyst Position
Date: 5 Oct 92 13:52:05 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: Imaging Systems Division, NCR Corp, Waterloo, Ont., CANADA


Software Quality Assurance Analyst Position
-------------------------------------------
         Company:   NCR Corporation
         Location:  Waterloo, Ontario

The job of the QA professional is to gather data, analyze it, draw
conclusions, and then make or initiate change to improve results.

Working alongside a senior Software Quality Assurance analyst, you
will learn the application of Quality Assurance techniques to
ensure that all software products and systems released by
NCR Waterloo meet the internal and customer expectations for quality.

This role will require you to interface closely with development, Product
Management, and product support departments.  You will obtain a good
overview of all the functions required to bring a new product to the
market.

You will become skilled in testing techniques, software metrics, CASE
tools, software engineering practices, and QA methodologies including
TQM, Process Management and Standards (such as ISO 9000).

Because QA is organized as a separate group within NCR, we can also offer
management growth within the QA role.  Our QA staff work with the
Engineering development group as peer team members.


Qualifications
==============
This junior level position requires an graduate with a Bachelors Degree,
preferrably in Computer Science or Electrical Engineering, or equivalent.
You will be a new graduate, or an individual with up to three years
experience.  As the successful candidate you must be a confident self-
starter, with a desire to continue the learning process.  You must be
open-minded, free-thinking, and committed to continuous quality improvement.
You require a well developed set of people skills, and the willingness to work
with and depend on others, are a must.  Oral and written communication skills
are mandatory.


Contact
=======
Please send your resume detailing your credentials to:

       Art MacLeod,
       NCR Corporation,
       580 Weber Street North,
       Waterloo, Ontario.
       N2J 4G5
--
Alfred Jadischke, Software QA
NCR Waterloo, Canada
alfred.jadischke@waterloo.NCR.COM
Xref: sparky kw.forsale:856 ont.forsale:1065 uw.forsale:106
From: geoff@zswamp.UUCP (Geoffrey Welsh)
Newsgroups: kw.forsale,ont.forsale,uw.forsale
Subject: Re: Another classic forsale (was Re: Computer pricing on this net)
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 92 16:37:59 EDT
Organization: Izot's Swamp

pjyamamo@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca writes:

> Commodore Pet ("Professional Series")
> (jointly developed right here at UW; or so I read somewhere).

   Actually, the PET was developed by Commodore for Radio Shack, which decided 
to design their own in stead of selling Commodore's.

   UW did the 6809 board of what became the SuperPET in '82 or thereabouts.

   If this is an original PET, with a 9" white screen (which 'snows'), a 
'chicklet' keyboard, 4K or 8K RAM etc., then I would like it... but, of 
course, not at an exhorbitant price, since it would be on display only.  
Nonetheless, I'd only buy one in working condition. 

Geoffrey Welsh, 7 Strath Humber Court, Islington, Ontario, M9A 4C8 Canada
geoff@zswamp.uucp, [xenitec.on.ca|m2xenix.psg.com]!zswamp!geoff (416)258-8467
         Coincidentally, most people who fight for "fairness" would be
         significantly better off under the system they call "fair"...
Newsgroups: kw.forsale
From: kjtaylor@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca (Krista Taylor)
Subject: Need 3 Oktoberfest tickets!
Summary:  Heidelberg Haus, Oktober 16th
Keywords:  party, beer ...
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 15:35:33 GMT

Howdy!
  I need 3 Oktoberfest tickets for Oktober 16th at the Moses Springer
Arena (Heidelberg Haus).  If you have tickets you do not need, please
let me know!

Thanks in Advance!
Krista
Newsgroups: kw.forsale