HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thistle@brewich.hou.tx.us (Thistle)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Braanshelm,Atenveldt
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 20:06:34 CDT
Organization: The Brewer's Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

Is there still a shire in existence in Billings, MT?  When I left there 
in AS XXII it was known as Braanshelm (Incipient Shire).  I would dearly 
love to hear from someone in that area.  I would like to try to get in 
touch with some people that were there at that time.  I now reside in 
Ansteorra in the Barony of Stargate.  Any help would be appreciated.  
Sigvald Browncloak./

------------------
thistle@brewich.hou.tx.us (Thistle)
Origin: The Brewer's Witch BBS -- Houston, TX -- +1 713 272 7350
     "Silence is the voice of complicity" - Vote Early, Vote Often!
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.fencing
Reply-To: ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel)
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology - DSP
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:03:35 GMT

I would be interested in reading such a newsgroup.

sign me up.


-- 
     The comments and spelling herein are mine and nobody
                     else lays claim to them.
================================================================
Lonnie D. Harvel                 |  ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu
From: atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Montgomery J. Moose)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Why have the SCA, Inc.?
Date: 13 Oct 92 18:48:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: vela.atterlep.719002131
Organization: National Association for the Disorganized

aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:

>In article <Bw0z50.7Mz@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes) writes:

>>Here's my list of things that the BoD does well.
>>
>>1) Standardization of Fighting and Archery rules. So you don't have to
>>reauthorize every time you go out of kingdom.

>Yeah, thank Bod for all those helmets that had to be retrofitted because
>of the possibility that a 1 1/4" sword might penetrate a 1" occularium.
>And I'm really glad that I could turn my hardwood spear into a tent pole.

  On the other hand, you can fight at Estrella, Pennsic, and in any other
kingdom without any trouble.  C'mon, Aryk, give them credit for allowing
someone to move from Caid to Trimaris without having to re-authorize.

>>2) Central source for publications for the SCA (officer's Handbooks and
>>the like).

>Handbooks for navigating the corporation's bureaucracy, you mean?  Like
>the handbook which explains the armour regulations as discussed above?

  There are a number of useful publications that come out of the corporation,
and which would not be possible without it (ever read the _Known World
Handbook_, Aryk?)  TI is only one of these--Compleat Ananchronist is another.)

>>3) Central registry for names and armory. So we don't have armory
>>conflicts when we go out of kingdom.  

  Actually, the CoA could take this over with no problem--it's almost
completely independent of the BoD anyway.

>>4) Standardization of rules for Kingdom organization and behavior.
>>So that people have a "legal" recourse when King Swaetsochs the Obtuse
>>decides that he wants to go against public opinion, good taste and commn
>>sense with some folly or another.

  Again, the BoD has served a useful purpose in these cases ("Michael of
Bedford" should ring a bell)

>>5) Insurance. Which started the whole fuss.

  The cost of insurance for one organization is less than the cost for twelve.

  Don't forget that centralization is actually cheaper than 12 orgs.  The cost
of offices, furniture, and paid people for 12 organizations would be very
expensive, and kingdoms would have to find some way to pay for the increased
costs.

		Alan Fairfax Aluricson, Fenris Herald
		Canton of the Riding of Hawkland Moor
		Barony of Northwoods, Midrealm
		atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu		**Magnitudo Vocis**
From: Elwyn.Halfmoon@f555.n387.z1.fidonet.org (Elwyn Halfmoon)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: a request for information
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1992 16:21:00 -0500

 > From: RGUSTAVSON@ocs.dir.texas.GOV

 > I wish to hail the good knights of the kingdoms which follow the
 > river Colorado, in the region where it flows from below Travis Lake
 > to the southern reaches ofTowne Lake; that place in the river known
 > as Waterloo.

Hmm, it's a good thing I know a bit about the geography of that nearby barony
known as Bryn Gwlad (Austin, TX), as most might find your request to be quite
cryptic.  (I still don't know where this watery-loo is, though)  I would
recommend you contact the Seneschale, Lady Mirrim of Bristol (Margaret Mitchell
at 512-282-8572).  I know they had a baronial investiture just last week, so
alas that I do not have the contact information for the new Baron.



From: Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ruth Woodring)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: membership
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1992 19:43:20

 NH>   Requiring membership to fight sounds like a lot more work
 NH> for the list officers. (can you tell I want to fight, but
 NH> don't want to worry about paperwork?) When I can't find
 NH> my authorization card there are any number of Knights,
 NH> masters, listmistresses, and marshals I know who can vouch
 NH> for me at a local event. I don't know anything like that
 NH> for membership.

 Just last weekend, I had as listmistress a lady who knows me quite well.  She  still insisted that I show her my fighter authorization card.  She did the  same thing to the Baron behind me in line, a close personal friend of hers.   And to her husband.  Sometimes we have to play by the rules.

 I keep my card in my changepurse in my pouch, along with my driver's  license -- that way I always have it at an event.  Much more convenient than  having to dig it out every weekend.

 ...as for the times I've been required to show a membership card, it makes  good sense --- even the best of us lapse due to lack of funds that month, or  just because we forgot.  You;d be surprised.  A friend of mine ended up  fighting for me in Crown because the first 5 women he asked had allowed their  memberships to laspe during the month of May.  They've all since renewed, but  good intentions and no membership will still keep you out of Crown List.

 -- Vashti, Regional Seneschal (26 more days, and counting!), Ansteorra


 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: JBrandt@AAA.UOregon.EDU (Laurie Brandt)
Subject: Dance
Organization: The Polyhedron Group
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 20:38:31 GMT

Looking for a bibliography and diskography for Eurpoean medieval and
renissance dances.  I am also posting this on rec.arts.dance. but I would
like to meet all like minded folk where ever they are.

Laurie E. W.
Brandt
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: samlb@optilink.UUCP (Sam Bassett)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: ... "Autocr Dancing from Pictures; Waivers
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:36:55 GMT
Organization: Ex-Russian Linguist, U.S. Army (1964-68)

In article <BvqAzF.11A@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:
>Anybody know when the Little Father started to be called the Tsar and
>Autocrat of All the Russias?

	"Tsar" goes back to Ivan Groznij ("the Terrible") -- it is the
Russification of "Caesar" == "Emperor".  Roughly contemporary with the
early reign of Elizabeth I.

	The title "Imperator i Samoderzhavets" (Emperor & Autocrat) was
adopted by Pyotr Velikij (Peter the Great) in the 1600s.
	"...all the Russias" was certainly used through the 19th Century,
and may be 18th -- I don't think it is much earlier than that.

-- 
Sam'l Bassett -- System Administrator 	      (among other silly things)
Work: DSC/Optilink, 1310-C Redwood Wy, Petaluma CA 94954; 1-707-792-7253
Internet: samlb@optilink.com 		      UUCP: uunet!optilink!samlb
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Citrons (was Re: Linen and wool)
Organization: University of Toronto -- Office of the Provost
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 22:57:26 GMT

In article <VADER.92Oct7143550@meryl.csd.uu.se> vader@meryl.csd.uu.se (]ke Eldberg) writes:

>Forgive my ignorance: "Citron" is the Swedish word for "lemon".
>What is the difference between a citron and a lemon in English?

The English word Citron (and the Hebrew word Etrog) denotes the fruit of
the tree _Citrus medica_.  The English word Lemon denotes the fruit of the
tree _Citrus limonia_.  On observation one will note the citron has a thicker
skin, more usually yellow (most Asian lemons are green), and in some subspecies
the stalk of the flower remains on the fruit as it matures.  The citron also
has a more pronounced aroma, both when fresh and dried.

Aryk Nusbacher
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Strict Membership Silliness
Organization: University of Toronto -- Office of the Provost
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:34:43 GMT

In article <Bw0t1G.Apx@wrs.com> james@wrs.com (James Moore) writes:

>This strikes me as very strange.  If your dance and fighter practices aren't
>listed in the kingdom newsletter, how do new members find out about
>them?  I would think that it's just as important to list these
>regularly occuring events in the kingdom newsletters as it is to list
>one-time events.

Another Westie.

If you live in, say, the Middle Kingdom, do you want the kingdom's
newsletter to tell you as a hypothetical resident of Winnipeg, Manitoba,
about a fighting practice in Louisville, Kentucky?  Does Balderik over
there in Ottawa want to read about dance practice in Davenport, Iowa?

Just so you don't worry about ill-informed newbies, James, every Principal-
ity and barony in the Middle is required to have a newsletter.  Redundant?
Sometimes.

Aryk

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Seneschal's courts
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 15:58:36 GMT

In article <1566@niktow.canisius.edu> salley@niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley) writes:
>> = Hal Ravn 
>> > = Morgan 
>
>> I was talking with the Prince of the Mists about a month ago and was
>> kidding him by asking if he'd been to every group in the Principality.
>> His (quite serious) answer was, "No, but by the time I step down, I
>> will have."
>
>Bravo!  As apposed to the recent-but-shall-remain-nameless Prince and Princess
>who, upon being told that the Principality Seneschal had accepted a bid for
>their investiture from West Virginia sniffed, "Surely you don't expect us to
>travel all the way down there?" 

One trusts that the Seneschal replied that, yes, he *did* expect them
to 'all the way down there' because doing so was a vital part of the
job they'd just fought to get--and if they didn't want to go would
they kindly abdicate now and let the kingdom get on with the business
of replacing them?

By comparison, at 12th Night this (mundane) year, it was announced
that August Purgatorio Coronation would be in Oertha (Alaska), which
meant that anyone fighting in either March Corwn or June Crown was
explicitly promising to get to Anchorage for one end of their reign.
At March Crown, there were 103 entrants in the field....

>> >At a 1-5 ratio of paid to non-paid
>> >(aproximately right for our group, and probably typical for the SCA) that
>> >means you need about 150 people in your group.  
> 
>> For kingdom-level events the ratio of members to non-members has
>> slipped from 3:1 to 2:1 over the last 2 to 3 years.  That's now 2
>> members for every non-member at these events.  I have heard claims
>> that the ratio for East kingdom events is roughly the reverse--1
>> member for every 3 non-members.
>
>Based on the waivers for Ice Dragon, I'd say that's about right.  However,
>I also admit Ice Dragon is atypical for an event.  It seems to be the annual
>"mundane spouse goes with active SCAdian to an event" event. ;-)

Next year I'll be in a postition to provide specifics from the West.
Anyone out there that has hard data from other kingdoms is *urged* to
post it.  This whole area of how many folks we've 'really' got needs
to be looked into--at least by us amateurs.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: Phyllis_Gilmore@rand.org (Phyllis Gilmore)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Dancing; post-period sources...
Date: 13 Oct 92 23:09:29 GMT
Organization: RAND

In article <718582331.F00001@ocitor.fidonet>, Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton) writes:
> 
> 
>  RW>  Somehow, Strip the Willow doesn't 'feel' early enough to me.  I 
 [STUFF DELETED]
>  Dances.  It's a Scots Reel.  Would you base the accuracy of the Italian 
>  dances you know on what you know about English Country?  Apples and 
>  oranges.....
>      Gwenllian CfM
> 
>  * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
> 
I'm not familiar with Strip the Willow, but I dance Scottish Country
Dances.  I doubt that any of them could be considered SCA period, at least
not according to my teacher and the books I've read.  The modern steps have
a great deal in common with ballet, for example, and the documented history
according to the leading proponents goes back no earlier than the 17th century
(if that, I'm not looking at the book at the moment).  It's assumed that these
dances are related to older forms, but I'd suspect the four- and five-couple 
sets to be more modern than "everybody join in" forms.

But then again, you may not be dancing Scottish reels as we do today.  I haven't
been to an SCA event involving dancing (yet).  (Here's a test:  Do your legs want
a divorce when you've finished?) And then there's are the Strathspeys . . .

Phillipa d'Ecosse
Lyondemere
Caid
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: On Barons and Membership
Date: 9 Oct 92 23:14:34 GMT
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <PA142548.361.718648114@utkvm1.utk.edu> PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer) writes:
>In article <1992Oct8.035236.22378@wixer.cactus.org> badger@wixer.cactus.org (Badger) writes:
>>	Much more bureaucracy, and its associated rules and regulations, and
>>this game is going to cease to be fun for, in my opinion, a large portion
>>of the populace, and this 20+ year old Dream that we all share is going to
>>start turning nightmarish, and I, for one, don't voluntarily hang around for
>>nightmares.
>
>The Marklanders are looking better and better, hey?

That doesn't neccesarily follow.

As for Badgers comment....  There were about 950 people on site at
October Crown (West) last weekend.  A rather large number of them
appeared to be reasonably happy most of the time so, at least in part,
we must be doing *something* right.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: Jeff Lee <jlee@smylex.UUCP>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCAidians who FRP games (part II)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 08:43:43 EDT
Organization: Shipbrook Software  (Tampa, FL)

Greetings from Godfrey!

Hal Ravn writes:
> 
> I think the problem is not the crossover in indivduals, so much as
> making the point that they are separate activities--even while
> acknowledging that the SCA has a lot to teach gamers and (especially)
> game designers about how medievaloid worlds have to work if they're to
> make sense and how muscle-powered weapons work in practice.

Or *any* weapons, for that matter.  (Anyone who believes that a crossbow
will only do 1-4 points of damage has obviously never fired one!)

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Net:  Jeff Lee / jlee@smylex.uucp / jlee%smylex.uucp@tscs.tscs.com     |
| SCA:  Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook / Wyvernwood, Trimaris                 |
|       Per pale azure and argent, a clarion counterchanged or and gules |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
      "Of course!  Lager!  The only thing that can kill a vindaloo!"
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Autocrats, members & insurance; ancient baronies
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 92 15:39:12 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

Greetings from Arval!  Justin wrote:

> why not eliminate "membership" entirely, unbundle all of those features
> that the Corporation has been increasingly wrapping into "membership",
> and simply define everyone who comes to events as "members"?

One important point: Our insurance company will not provide liability
protection for an undefined & arbitrarily large group of people.  We have
to tell them who to cover, and ensure that there is a well-defined list of
those people.  Currently, that list is the membership roll.  We might be
able to use some other definition (e.g., rostered officers, royalty, landed
barons, and dues-paying members), but as far as I know the corporation has
not investigated this possibility.

So, we could do what you suggest, Justin (and I look forward to more
detail), but it assumes approval by the insurance company.

> ...have an "autocrat of record", who is a member, and who signs the
> contract if one is needed, and have a "sub-autocrat" (maybe with the
> title "Steward", hmm?)  who actually does all the work. Fills the letter
> of the law, while not really requiring anyone to change their habits
> much...

It does satisfy the letter of the law, but it circumvents the purpose of
the law in a very dangerous way: The autocrat of record is legally
responsible for the event.  He has to understand that he will be a target
of any legal problems that arise from the "steward's" decisions.
Contrariwise, if the steward is not a member, he must realize that he is
not covered by the liability insurance for his actions in his
pseudo-official capacity, but is still quite likely to be a target of any
legal actions.


In other news:

> Which leads to an interesting little question (I always love starting
> discussions): how many "ancient" Baronies are there around? For the
> sake of argument, let's define an "ancient Barony" as one that was
> around when a Barony was defined as somewhere not inside a Kingdom.

Was there such a definition?  I have been told that there was once a policy
that the first branch in any state was automatically a barony; one of the
early issues of TI lists a branch as "The Barony in Pennsylvania" (which
seems ot have died without ever taking a real name).  I wasn't aware that
there was ever a notion of "not inside a kingdom."

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Multi-Multi-Dukes
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 16:39:01 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

I wrote:

>Siegfried is widely favored as the most likely to be the first four-time
>Eastern ruler.

Mikjal replied:

> Interesting.  I would have put my money on either Morgunn or Randel.
> Hasn't been a rather long time since Siegfried was last on the throne?

Yes, he dropped away from the Society for a few years.  He's back, in
training, and reportedly the hot prospect for this month's Crown Tourney.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Ukraine
From: kgassner@cstp.umkc.edu
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 03:44:01 GMT
Organization: UM - Kansas City, Computer Science


Hi everybody!

A friend of mine selected 13th century Ukraine as the period for
her persona and is now having a very hard time finding out something
about that not-so-well-documented time and place?

Does anyone out there know about some books that contain information on
that topic, especially on the costume of that place?

Thanx
	Klaus

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Why have the SCA, Inc.?
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:23:57 GMT

In article <35LJsB1w165w@mala.proteus.qc.ca> ranfry@mala.proteus.qc.ca (Ranfry) writes:
>ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Schroeder) writes:
>
>> What do others think?  What would be the 'minimum effective set'
>> of responsibilities, if any, that the corporation should retain?
>> Clearly the Steward's job *as currently defined* has become too
>> much for any single person.  What's the right balance between
>> centralizing and decentralization?
>> 
>In mine own opinion, kingdom business should be handled by the kingdom 
>and not the corporation.  Inter kingdom business should either be the 
>jurisdiction of the corporation, or a special inter kindom board set up 
>for this purpose.

[This may just be rephrasing what you meant....  --whh]

There's "Inter-Kingdom" and there's "Inter-Kingdom."  Anything
involving two or more kingdoms ought to be settled by the Kingd (or
their representatives.  If that is not possible, then (I think) it
becomes what one might term an 'etra-Kingdom' or 'extra-Fuedal' issue
that has to be passed beyond the Medieval/Mundane interface to a (or
the) Board.

A case can be made for directly taking all extrea-fuedal issues
directly to the external entity, or even creating a parallel,
non-Medieval structure to deal with such things.  We have, at least
partially, done so by giving Senschals, Autocrats, Exchequers, and
Constables one foot in the 20th century.  Most of the difficulties we
encounter seem to arise from this dualism of job.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Multi-Multi-Dukes (was Re: Dancing from Pictures; Waivers)
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:18:21 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.162030.20475@odin.corp.sgi.com> lindal@goddess.asd.sgi.com (Linda Levy) writes:
>
>come-on Hal, What about Radnor???
>7 times King of the West
>
>(and counting)

I *said* I tend to forget the more recet Dukes.  :-)

the reason I'm fairly sure that Henrik has been king 5 times was
because of the proposal to create Archduke when so people thought he
was going to make it 6.  (Come to think of it, I think he some time
thereafter and made sure that particular title never got enacted at
all.)

Simplest way to get a complete list, with number of reigns, would be
to pull out a West Kindom OP.  As was commented on this subject last
night before the Bratchet meeting--that's too much like work.
Still...  I suppose that someone with a copy will check.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca