HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: RULEBOOK TRIVIA 14
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:04:40 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <92205.211559IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ryan Robbins) writes:
>With nobody on, the batter hits a high pop-up in front of the
>plate. The catcher gets into position to make the catch, but loses
>sight of the ball just before it comes down and bounces off his
>glove, which is over the plate. The ball squirts to the backstop.
>The catcher retrieves the ball and throws it back to the pitcher.
>The pitcher takes his position on the rubber, the catcher and
>batter go to their boxes, and the pitcher pitches. The batter
>grounds the ball back to the pitcher, and the pitcher throws the
>ball to first for the out. How is this play scored?

There are a couple of issues.  First, was the popup fair or foul?
From the description, it sounds like it was a fair ball; however,
there would have been a ruling from the umpires and I must infer
that the ruling was "foul ball", based on later actions.
This might be wrong, but there's nothing to be done about it.

Second, is the catcher charged with an error?  That's up to
the scorer, but based on the description, I'd charge an error.

My ruling:  E2 + 1-3

-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: pyacm@trentu.ca (A Colin Morton)
Subject: Re: A *Sure* sign of the apocalypse...
Keywords: Email me for entry-level mid fi and hi fi equipment, cheap.
Organization: Trent University, Ontario
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 14:24:48 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.172154.10695@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> ven@eecg.toronto.edu (Ven Seshadri) writes:
>
>Something like this has already happened.  Do any Blue Jays fans out
>there remember the times Cecil played 3rd base and 2nd base in late
>inning situations in (I think) 1987?  I seem to recall that he made
>a game-losing error in one of those 2 games.
>
Ah yes -- the ill-fated West coast swing where both Lee and Liriano went
down with injuries, and Pat Gillick was really slow at filling the hole.
Jimy Williams, in his finest hour as a major-league manager, inserted
Cecil Fielder (and, in another game, Pat Borders) into the lineup at
second, and then fiddled the actual defensive placement to suit the
batter.  With a lefty batting, Kelly Gruber came over to play second,
while Fielder or Borders played third; with a right-handed hitter at the
plate, Gruber went back to third, and Fielder/Borders to second.  In
this way Williams minimized the number of chances that Fielder and
Borders had to face.

The scary part was that it actually worked fairly well, though, what
with it being a West coast trip, I didn't get to see much.

Colin.
From: a_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Date: 27 Jul 92 12:48:21 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <1992Jul26.181556.1714@panix.com>, spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira) writes:
> I don't claim that RC/27 is a perfect stat - there is no such thing - but
> it gives you a reasonable idea of player performance because it places what
> the player does in context.

	It certianly doesn't see to be, though I am arguing from ignorance
here. If RC/27 is adjusted for *teams* runs scored, then I don't see a gaping
hole.  If, on the other hand, the team's overall performance doesn't come into
play, then the stat is severely flawed. If the latter is true, ignore the next
paragraph.
	
	For example, take player A and B, two full-time players from two 
different teams. A has a RC/27 of 7, and B has a RC/27 of 8, then this would 
seem to indicate that player B is slightly better. However, if player A's 
team scored only 500 runs for the season, and player B's scored 750, it would
seem that player A is actually better, adjusting for the team.
	
	Could someone post the formula for RC/27, BTW?

Brandon Cope

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: usscoop1@bnr.ca (Chuck McCusker P015)
Subject: Re: Twins Fans Was Re:Braves Fans
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP 
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:55:07 GMT

|> In article <55126@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> poutsmaj@mace.cc.purdue.edu (unknown) writes:
|> >It is wonderful for Braves fans to see their team in first place in the 
|> >west, but before anyone starts talking too much just remember that winning
|> >streaks do not last forever.  The Braves WILL lose again.  The other teams
|> >in the division will win some games and lose some games as well.  Granted,
|> >the way things look now it appears that the Braves should be good enough
|> >to win enough games to take the division title again.  Stay optimistic but
|> >don't get too cocky yet.
|> >
|> >
|> >a humble twins fan
|> >paul
|>
You think that last week we could have substituted Twins for Braves in this 
post. :) 

Chuck Ross - doesn't know then meaning of the word humble A's fan

 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: 6694430@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Need injury update
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 06:40:05 GMT


What is the status of John Franco of the METS  ?????
I understand that he's eligible to come off the 15-day DL.
Last week's Baseball Weekly states that his injury may be worse than the
Mets are letting on....
Any truth to this????


Thanks in advance for any info..........

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: wilbanks@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Dylan Wilbanks)
Subject: Southern League/Texas League standings?
Keywords: minor texas southern league
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 03:32:44 GMT

Does anyone have the current standings for the Southern 
and Texas Leagues? the Denver and Boulder papers don't carry them.

-- 
Dylan Wilbanks, Classics major, AND NOW Environmental Conservation!
"Look! An X-man movie's coming out!"          |Currently at:
c.10 year old in a Tulsa movie theater,       |Box 1143
looking at a poster for _Malcolm X_           |Boulder, CO 80306
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tannerg@milton.u.washington.edu (Glenn Tanner)
Subject: Re: All 6th-best team
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 00:40:59 GMT

>In article <1992Jul29.151938.23661@panix.com> spira@panix.com (Greg Spira) writes:
>>Actually, this brings up an interesting question regarding the expansion
>>draft - is Texas going to protect Ryan?  I think it's possible they could
>>avoid this in order to protect a younger player.  Ryan could announce that
>>there's no way he's ever going to pitch for any non-Texas team, and if an
>>expansion team selects him, he's retiring.  I tend to think Miami and
>>Denver would believe him, and just not select him even if he's available.
>
>One thing you might see is Texas treating this situation the same way
>that the LA Lakers treated Kareem Abdul-Jabbar when the NBA expanded.
>They left Kareem unprotected, but they made a deal with both expansion
>clubs that they'd give a draft pick to whichever team selected a Laker
>player, provided that player wasn't Kareem.  

This won't happen.  I believe it's illegal to trade draft picks in baseball.
The Rangers might be willing to give up Steve Balboni and Don Carman, though.

Seriously, the Rangers will leave Nolan unprotected and either team would be
idiotic to waste a pick on him.  Nolan's 40-something, extremely wealthy, 
runs a ranch and a bank in his Alvin, and there's no way he's going to spend
the last year of his career playing for a team in Colorado or Florida that will
lose 100 games.

GT

>-Michael
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Wolverton                       "Is that clear?"
mjw@cs.stanford.edu                     "No, but it's consistent!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:37:23 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Dept. of Mathematics
In-reply-to: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com's message of 28 Jul 92 19:45:35 GMT

In article <5195@transfer.stratus.com>, Jim Mann writes:

> First of all, looking at this stuff isn't just for prediction. It's
> also for evaluating how a player did in some past season.  It's
> interesting to look back and say "Yeah, that was a close series,
> but XXX making that dive into the stands for the ball (or YYY
> beating out that infield hit, even though he hurt his ankle the day
> before or ____) was a real turning point."  

It may be interesting, but is it meaningful for evaluation?  Can you
assign *value* to such a play?

The first time in post-season history that a team trailed by three runs
going into the ninth inning and came back to win happened in the 1986
American League Championship Series.  Does anyone remember that this
game was the turning point of the series, with the winning team tearing
through the rest of the series, winning Game 7 in a rout, and the losers
choking?

If you do, I'm surprised; the game that I am describing is Game 4, in
which the *Angels* came back, but fell just short of taking the series
in Game 5.  If Game 5 had any inspirational value for the Red Sox, Game
4 should have had the same value for the Angels, but nobody talks about
it.

And any team, inspired or not, can easily lose any game; last-place
teams beat first-place teams one time in four.

--
David Grabiner, grabiner@zariski.harvard.edu
"We are sorry, but the number you have dialed is imaginary."
"Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again."
Disclaimer: I speak for no one and no one speaks for me.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mike@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Michael Chen)
Subject: Re: Yankees..Whats UP?
Reply-To: mike@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Michael Chen)
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 01:12:36 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.224456.22591@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>In article <SHIAO.92Jul28165622@foo.ans.net> shiao@ans.net (Dennis Shiao) writes:
>>
>>The Williams' (Bernie and Gerald) are both fine prospects. Bernie didn't
>>even play a full season with the "big club". Granted, his numbers weren't
>>great. He's an excellent outfielder with above average speed. They've got to
>>give him a chance soon.
>
>Huh???  I grant *nothing*.  Lemme put it this way...  Lofton is
>often mentioned as a likely ROY candidate.  Compare Lofton this
>year to Williams last year:
>
>		OBP	SLG	SB/CS
>Lofton		.323	.326	34/7
>Williams	.336	.350	10/5
>
>Now Lofton is 25.  Bernie was 22 last year.  A *three* year
>difference.  And Bernie is at *least* as good defensively.  Basically,
>he totally blows away Lofton.  You can see why I would have *loved* a
>trade of Cooper for Williams?

Hey, there were even talks of Bernie for Hesketh.  But, back to the
point of discussion...Last season, Bernie (IMHO) did not do as well as
he could.  Bernie has the tools, but he is still learning.  He still
needs to learn how to run the bases.  In terms of hitting, I would
think Bernie would be a more feared hitter than a Lofton, who is often
considered a slap hitter.  

>
>>There's plenty of talent at the other positions, too, like J.T. Snow
>>at 1st. I'm sure a more detailed report can be done. 
>
>I don't know if Snow has enough power to make it.  He looks like he
>could hit for a good average, but without walks, power, or speed...
>
I thought the same of Snow, but at a closer look, Snow has 9 homers in
slightlyh less than 300 AB.  Granted, he is not Mark McGwire, but...
remember, Columbus is not an easy park to homer in, and remember,
Mattingly before his big years, did not show much power either.
Kevin Maas did not show much power in his Columbus days either. 

>As for Gerald Williams, he is a non-prospect at this point.  He is
>already 25, has minimal power, is only hitting .273 in AAA, and has
>below-average patience at the plate.  So he has speed.  He still
>sucks.  GWilliams languished in A-ball for three and a half years,
>before breaking out to post .250/.324/.435 totals in Albany at the end
>of 1990, followed by a performance worth a .244/.294/.339 MLE last
>year.  He has improved somewhat this year.  Might even be worth a
>.300/.380 MLE.  But that's not particularly good.
>
I do not know if he would be considered a non-prospect.  He is
considered to have more power than his younger brother.  I would not
think Gerald has a shot with the Yankees though.

>Cheers,
>-Valentine
>-- 
>Vaughn, Irvine, Valentin...  Where is Wedge?	tedward@cs.cornell.edu

/Mike

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: djohnson@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (David Johnson)
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:45:45 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.172130.20817@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>In article <BrwI81.4vC@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson) writes:
>>Sherri, let me ask you one question.  Assume a .250 7 HR 24 RBI guy demands
>>to play instead of a .300 15 HR 50 RBI even if it means losing more games, 
>>is he a team player?  (Assume defensive abilities are equal) 
>
>I don't know.  But further, I don't really care, because I don't really
>care to chacterize players as "team players" or "not team players".

Ok. Lets take this a little further.  Would you like to have a player on
your team who makes this demand and when he isn't played makes a disturbance
in the clubhouse and publically complains to the media about the .300 hitter
and about the manager not playing him.  Would you keep this player or get rid
of him?  If he wasn't causing a disturbance would you keep him or get rid of
him?

>
>Sherri Nichols
>snichols@adobe.com

--David Johnson
From: csquared@coos.dartmouth.edu (Christopher M. Cohen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Red Sox roster moves
Date: 27 Jul 92 03:21:10 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

For anyone who cares, John Marzano and John Valentin have been called up by the
Red Sox, Marzano before this evening's game and Valentin after.  To make room,
John Flaherty was sent to Pawtucket and Tim Naehring was put on the 15 day DL.

C Squared
From: g_waugaman@nac.enet.dec.com (Glenn R. Waugaman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: ARTIFICIAL TURF: EMBARASSMENT TO THE GAME
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:40:16 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <9207211753.AA21188@sumac09.cray.com>, jjd@TEAK.CRAY.COM (Jeff Drummond) writes...
> 
>Yes, who knows.  Perhaps in another park Clemens would have gotten
>shelled for a loss.  But I'm puzzled.  Fenway fans see weird caroms off
>the wall and the angled stands behind third base and talk about the
>charm of an old ballpark.  But a high bouncer off the plate in the
>MetroMuffin is an embarrassment to the game.  Go figure.

Go figure is right.  We've been through this before.  Fenway Park does not
change the basic character of the game.  Fenway Park does not turn
weakly-hit ground balls into singles and bloopers into doubles, and
sharply-hit balls in the infield into outs (a property of artificial
turf).  Fenway Park does not affect at all balls that are hit in the
infield or which drop in front of outfielders.  In fact, Fenway Park does
not significantly affect balls put into play that travel any less than
300-350 feet.  In general, Fenway Park affects the value of certain
extra-base hits, both positively and negatively, and that's about it. 

It's aesthetics.  Anyone is perfectly free to like that which they prefer
(although I've seen polls that say that baseball fans don't generally like
domes and artificial turf).  I like the occasional quirk as much as the
next guy, but if you get your kicks from fly balls dropping from dangling
speaker wires, I can't argue with you... 

---
Glenn Waugaman
Digital Equipment Corporation
Littleton, MA
g_waugaman@nac.enet.dec.com
---
From: dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Dawson, was: Re: GMaddux to Test Free Agency Waters
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:01:47 GMT
Organization: Factors of Ys, Inc.

In article <s3lmygp@lynx.unm.edu> kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt Bose "of Biscayzee") writes:
>In article <3801@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes:
>>
>>We should see 25 HR out of almost *any* hitter with any power at all, if he
>>plays half his games in Wrigley.  

>I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, Dave, but just what percentage of 
>power hitters in Wrigley show do you attribute to the park?  All to most of 
>attempts to show this I've seen or done come up with a relatively stable 8%
>increase in power (home runs, anyway) over a neutral park.  Is 22 home runs in
>Riverfront as unimpressive?  


I was asked the same question by email, and it's a fair cop.  Let me clarify
what I was saying.

Andre Dawson's *entire* value to the Cubs lies in his slugging percentage,
now that his defense is average at best, and his OBP is even worse than it
used to be.  His entire game is average or below, except for his power.  For
him to still be a good player, worth trying to keep around for a few more
years, he would have to have *real* power.  My point is that 25 HR per year,
especially in Wrigley (where, as you say, it's really the same as about 22 HR
per year in Riverfront, or 19 (?) in Shea), isn't real power.  A hitter can
be an awesome force while hitting 25 HR per year (see Henderson, R., 1990),
but he can also be a pile of tofu.  See Kingman, D.

So, my objections to the original defense of Dawson are

	1. Being the best, or near-best, on a rotten team is not a reason
	   to be considered valuable.

	2. Hitting 25 HR as a Cub is not enough reason to be considered
	   valuable, all by itself.

	3. Even if Dawson were marginally desirable this year, his chances
	   of being even this good two years from now are slim to none.  He's
	   just too old and beat up.  Occasionally, a player like Winfield
	   will beat those odds, but it's *very* rare.  And anyone who signs
	   Winfield to multi-year contract at this point is insane.

Is that more clear?

-- 
        David M. Tate        | "And that inverted Bowl we call The Dome
   dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu   |  Whereunder crawling coop'd we field and bat,
   Edward "Mike" Fitzgerald  |     Lift not your eyes to *it* for help--for it
     from "The Ruthaiyat"    |  Will drop the tow'ring fly upon your hat."
From: cs.umd.edu!chernesk@overmind.mind.org
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Question on Free Agency
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:32:00 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742
X-mailer: Stadel 3.4a-227
X-Spam-content: irrelevant

The other day, I read article in the Washington Post about Mel Hall.  It
said that his contract is up this year, but since he was a free agent 
three(?)
years ago, he is uneligible to be a free agent at the end of this year.
I believe it said that a player can only be a free agent every five years.
If the Yankees want to keep him and if a contract is not agreed upon,
the article stated that the Yankees and he would go to salary arbitration.
I was surprised to learn that a player with at least nine years of duty
could have salary arbitration.

My questions are then, is the above true?  What implications does
this have for this year's crop of free agents and will this possibly change
in the next labor agreement (if there is one)?

Mike Chernesky
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dwbruce@mta.ca
Subject: Expos Schedule
Reply-To: dwbruce@mta.ca
Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada 
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 11:25:39 GMT

I will be in Montreal from July 29 to Aug 2.  Could someone please post the 
Expos schedule for that thime

time period.  I would like to catch a game or two if they are playing at
home.  Thanks in advance,  DAVE
From: dgemoets@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Darren Gemoets-- CSC)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Expos Update
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:17:03 GMT
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center

p_emond@pavo.concordia.ca (PATRICK EMOND) writes:

> A few odds and ends from Montreal, the city that discovered ten days ago that
>they have a major league team...

I noticed some Big-O attendance in the 30,000 range.  Let's hope is lasts.

>--Glen Colbrunn hit his first major league dinger leading off the 9th in last
>  night's 4-1 loss to the Giants--he's been playing well since his call-up from
>  AAA giving Felipe Alou another problem along with...

Yeah, I like what I've seen of this guy.  Do the Expos plan on keeping him
on the major-league roster?

>--the outfield: Moises Alou is 'a few days away' from returning to the lineup,

Good.  I've been waiting "with breath abait" for his return.  I hope he
gets lots-o-at-bats and continues to perform well.  I'd love to see him as
ROY.  I'm still reeling from Bill Gullickson's losing out to Steve Howe
in 1980.

> and The Gazette reported today that Darren Reed, who has barely played, would 
>  be sent down or released when Alou returns to the lineup.

I've tried to be patient with this guy, but he just hasn't performed well.
When I was at the Expos-Giants game July 13, Reed replaced Walker in the lineup
when the latter got injured.  It was quite embarrasing to have a .138 hitter
in the cleanup spot!  I like his name, though... (see below).

>--Larry Walker should (but won't) get MVP votes at the end of the year--

He might get a few.  :-)  I'm glad to see he's showing some of that potential
we've seen for the past couple of years.  The Expos have been looking for a
left-handed power hitter for years (remember the Jason Thompson incident?).

> the Expos' starting foursome of DeShields(.308),Grissom(.280,50sb),
> Vanderwal/Alou (both .300ish) and Walker (17hr) is at least as good as
> SD's Four Tops of Fernandez,Sheffield,Gwynn and McGriff,

Whoa, now!  I'm a devout Expos fan and sometimes overstate their greatness,
but I don't think these four Expos are yet up to F/S/G/Mc proportions.  Have
you seen those four guys' stats lately?  They're outrageously good.  There
should be a law against what these guys do.  I don't mean to cut the Expos
fab-four short, though:  Grissom & DeShields 1-2 in SB and in the leaders in
runs; Walker showing his promised power, speed, and arm; and Alou (when
healthy) has been really exciting to watch.

>Any other legitimate candidates for NL manager of the year besides Felipe Alou
>  ?? 

Maybe Lou Piniella (what with the Reds hospital ward).  But Felipe is doing
very well.

>--4 games out and breathing down the Pirates' necks...

Remember, although the Expos are contending and only 4 games out
(as of today), they're only hovering around .500.  There's still a ways to go.

Go Expos!!!

> Patrick Emond    *  LARRY WALKER-BEST RIGHT FIELDER IN BASEBALL...

Darren Gemoets			... Expos fan stranded in the DC area ...
dgemoets@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov
From: zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Not Just For The Dead Huckabay)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: AMATEUR: Kirsch, cue 'Mexican Hat Dance.'
Summary: Wheee!
Keywords: Deer, Incaviglia, Jackson, Canseco, Samuel, Huckabay.
Date: 31 Jul 92 18:08:09 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Audio Buffs With Stuff To Sell, Ltd. (Email me for

[Cue Music: Mexican Hat Dance]

Miskatonic played 15 grueling innings last night.

Your humble scribe:

AB   R   H    BI    BB    K
 6   0   0    0     1     6

And, in center field, three errors to go with no range, and zero
assists.

Miskatonic loses, 2-1, in 15.

(Fade to black.)


-- 
* Gary Huckabay *  Need a good Integrated Amp?  $350 buys a Yamaha AX-400U   *
*****************  With Upgraded caps and pots - sounds better than an Adcom *
"Lundy..." -JSM *  GFA-535 w/Adcom preamp.  Great starter Mid-Fi - beats any *
		*  comparable receiver.  Email me.  It's a WONDERFUL sound.  *
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball