HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!SIVM.SI.EDU!SECSI003
Subject: Campell
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 22:19:16 GMT

Original-Sender: SIVM.SI.EDU!SECSI003

To Jim Larimore:

     Why don't you air your complaints to this net, and let us form an opinion
that includes your opinions? You simply trash some comments, and provide no
backup. I'd be happy to give you a break, if you give me a way to do so.

     You talk about sampling a broader pool. Do you know what pool it was that
the information was gained? I'm a statistician, and I share your concerns
about this, but I can't give your complaints much credence without knowing
the sampling frame about which you're complaining. Nor can I give much credence
to the figures given (Which I haven't seen) without knowing how they were
arrived at.

     Let me know how the figures were arrived at, and why you have problems
with them, and then maybe we can do something with this. Don't just air beefs
about alleged results without the ability to refute them. Or the willingness
to do so. It doesn't say very much. That goes for the poster of said results
if they were posted without info about how the results were obtained.

            Sorry, I get a bit test on these things.

                                       Steve Smith

Newsgroups: alt.native
From: Steve Smith <beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!SIVM.SI.EDU!SECSI003>
Subject: Environment for its own sake
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:29:04 GMT

Original-Sender: Steve Smith <SIVM.SI.EDU!SECSI003>

From: Steve Smith
      Institutional Studies Office
Something to add to the environmentalist talk...there seem to be too many out
there who seem to be more of what I would call species-survivalists. They see
the field not as trying to preserve the earth for its own sake, but in terms
of how we are to survive as a species on/in it. Certainly not all, perhaps
not even a majority, but too much talk that I hear, and writing that I read
seems to be filtered through such a lens. Perhaps that's because so much
opposition to environmentalists comes from people who are worried about their
livelihoods, and those concerns ought to be addressed when dealing with them,
but I'd like to be aware of more pure environmentalism out there if that's
possible. If something more deadly and contagious than AIDS were
unassailably obliterating humanity, would environmentalists still be concerned
with the preservation of a world that would survive us?
(an extreme case, no doubt, but I'm curious...)
                                               Steve Smith
                                           (Oneida/Menominee)

*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
#  We did not weave the web of life. We are merely a strand   #
*    in it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.    *
#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#--Chief Seattle, 1854#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#
From: slucas@grant.ncd.com (Steve Lucas)
Newsgroups: alt.native
Subject: Thanksgiving
Keywords: Lakota
Date: 21 Nov 92 16:43:56 GMT
Organization: Network Computing Devices, Mt. View, CA, USA


	I'm still researching into my heritage and also learning about the lakota/ogala/teton people.  This is a long process, yet I know that it is worth all the work going into it.  In fact, my daughter is learning about the Ameican Indians in school, 3rd grade.  She has already challenged the teacher on many of the things that the school books say.  With the help from the various listings received from all of you, She has been allowed to share the truth with her class by her teacher.  BTW, her teacher now has 

a copy of the listings and also want to thank all of you for helping her teach the truth.
	I'm not sure if it applies, but, Happy Thanksgiving to all my brothers and sisters of all tribes.  Not in recognition of the europeans arrival in this country, but for the survival of our race and culture.
	Before I had asked for names of Sioux and Blackfoot reservations in and around the Montana area.  I have to correct myself.  The request should have been for Blackfoot Sioux.  Anyway, all of your help has been a great asset to me.


Thanks again,

Steve Lucas


	"Hecel lena Oyate Kin nipi kte"
From: gford@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: alt.native
Subject: Question from Aotearoa, LANGUAGES
Date: 22 Nov 92 21:12:29 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

Greetings,
A question on languages and writing.

Can anyone help me? I have been working on a children's word processor
for Maori school children, here in Aotearoa (New Zealand). There is a
growing Maori language revival here, as few of my generation or my parents
generation grew up speaking Maori. We are working at giving our next 
generation the language we are struggling to learn ourselves.

I am particularly interested in similarities to the way North American 
languages are written. Maori is written using English characters, but the 
structure of the words is syllabic. There are 50 basic syllables: 
'ha','ka','ma'....'he','ke'...'ngu', 'whu'. Notice that 'ng' and 'wh' are 
the only consonants that appear in pairs. 

I know that there is a Cherokee script which is syllabic, but I have not
been able to find a good description of the script. I suspect that other
languages may be syllabic in structure, but use English characters (like 
Maori does). I am interested in knowing more about languages in either of 
these two categories. Particularly:
	how many letters in the alphabet?
	what combinations they can/cannot appear in
	has the language ever been used in a computer program?
	references (our library is small here at Waikato),
	comment?

Any help would be appreciated, I would be happy to correspond further.

Kia Ora
Naku noa 
Na Greg						gford@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: alt.native
From: adams@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Brynach ap Adda)
Subject: Re: Subscription details for WELSH-L (and Breto
Organization: St. Olaf College; Northfield, MN
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 11:58:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov14.233546.27715@exu.ericsson.se> exudms@exu.ericsson.se writes:
>I would say that you have the wrong News group, to say the least.

Oh, don't you know? They're still searching for those elusive
Welsh-speaking Indians.

:) :) :)

- Brynach ap Adda

Newsgroups: alt.native
From: beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!eagle.fsl.noaa.gov!inyan (Barbara Inyan)
Subject: Re: Native American Congressman?
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:58:36 GMT

Original-Sender: eagle.fsl.noaa.gov!inyan (Barbara Inyan)

Although I think it is definitely positive in some respects that Ben
Nighthorse Campbell, an American Indian, was elected to the Senate,
I am also aware that at least some of the Native Americans in his
home state of Colorado (also my home state) were against his candi-
dacy.  According to them, Campbell is an "apple", red on the outside
and white on the inside.  The feelings toward him seemed to me to be
pretty negative.

-Barbara

Newsgroups: alt.native
From: "jim larimore" <beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!Forsythe.Stanford.EDU!Jim.Larimore>
Subject: reply to 'Native American Congressman?'
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:49:30 GMT

Original-Sender: "jim larimore" <Forsythe.Stanford.EDU!Jim.Larimore>

REPLY TO 11/16/92 13:49 FROM nn.chat@gnosys.svle.ma.us: Re: Native American
Congressman?

I usually try not to get pulled into the discussions which appear
on Nativenet because the electronic mail format in use seems to
provide an excessive opportunity for spreading gossip and opinion
from which people may try to pull some general understanding -- or
misunderstanding.

The comments about Ben Nighthorse Campbell interest me because the
implication is that an Indian candidate should pull 100% of the
Indian vote and be loved and respected by Indian people of all
tribes and generations.  Give me a break!

I am as opinionated as anyone out there, but I don't think it is
appropriate to electronically blast second hand opinions and
characterizations out to folks who may not know much about Campbell's
work in Colorado and Washington on behalf of Native people.  If there
are folks out there who form their opinions about people based on
what they pick up through this media source, I urge you to sample
a broader pool of information before passing along or accepting
my or others opinions.

Jim Larimore
Director, American Indian Program
Stanford University
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Thursday, 19 Nov 1992 13:20:38 MST
From: <AZKLB@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: alt.native
Subject: Re: Marriage in NC
 <1992Nov12.171111.21141@samba.oit.unc.edu>

I am wondering if the law prohibiting marriage between Native Americans in
North Carolina is being confused with a law from the slave-owning states
which forbade African slaves to marry.

I don't know off hand, but there may be an old law still on the books which
may forbid Native Americans to marry but which is not enforced.  There is a
of unenforced laws still around... many of them are pretty silly (forbidding
shelling of peanuts on Sunday, for example).  Does anyone know if there have
been any attempts to enforce such a law in North Carolina?  The gentleman from
Chapel Hill might check the state law books.

                                     Kristie Butler,
                                     azklb@asuacad
From: ca855@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert Allen Coody)
Newsgroups: alt.native
Subject: Information needed on Hopi land.
Date: 23 Nov 1992 15:30:38 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


I am seeking information relating to the Hopi land exchange
located near Flagstaff, Arizona.  Any legals by township and
range would be appreciated along with any information or
suggested sources of information. Excuse my logo, but I work
for Cline Library in Flagstaff, Arizona. The information here,
even though it is in our own backyard is minimal.
-- 
Juan de los Caballeros
Time Traveler 1540-?
NAU CFN ETC...        "The Past Lives within the Present" Nemo nd
Newsgroups: alt.native
From: ariar1008@bestsd.sdsu.edu (ARIAS A)
Newsgroups: alt.native
Subject: inquiry
Date: 16 Nov 92 20:22:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: San Diego State University - Dept. of Redundancy Dept.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bestsd.sdsu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In the student newspaper at Texas A&I Universin announcement was printed for
students to attend "a special teleconference/interactive forum entitled
COLUMBUS DID NOT DISCOVER AMERICA
TAKE BACK YOUR HISTORY
As mainstream Euro-America celebrates the 500th anniversary of the rape and
destruction of Cem-Anahuac ('The one World' in Nahuatl), we as Chicanas and
Chicanos must take a stand to proclaim the truth!  As students, fortunate
enough to study the history of the tragic event, we must take it upon
ourselves to educate the community.
Presented by: The National Chicana/Chicano Empowerment Network."

What is "Cem-Anahuac"?
Would anyone care to comment?
Xref: sparky alt.native:1296 alt.activism.d:4208
From: beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!eagle.fsl.noaa.gov!inyan (Barbara Inyan)
Subject: Re:  reply to 'Native American Congressman?'
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:06:36 GMT

Original-Sender: eagle.fsl.noaa.gov!inyan (Barbara Inyan)

I'd like to respond to Jim's mail since I think at least part of it
was aimed at the message I sent about Ben Nighthorse Campbell.
>
> The comments about Ben Nighthorse Campbell interest me because the
> implication is that an Indian candidate should pull 100% of the
> Indian vote and be loved and respected by Indian people of all
> tribes and generations.  Give me a break!

If you feel that I was implying this, you misunderstood where I
was coming from.  In fact, part of my motivation for my message was
to present that there are other feelings about Campbell than the positive
ones that were expressed in the original message.
>
> I am as opinionated as anyone out there, but I don't think it is
> appropriate to electronically blast second hand opinions and
> characterizations out to folks who may not know much about Campbell's
> work in Colorado and Washington on behalf of Native people.  If there
> are folks out there who form their opinions about people based on
> what they pick up through this media source, I urge you to sample
> a broader pool of information before passing along or accepting
> my or others opinions.
>

Again, I think my message was misunderstood.  Perhaps I could have
stated it in a less offensive way.  I certainly didn't intend to
"electronically blast" Campbell.  Rather, as I said above, I was
adding more information so that what was presented in this forum
covered a wider range of opinions.  This is, I think, what you are
advocating - getting more information.  The opinions I reported,
by the way, were directly expressed to me by Native Americans.  I
know it is still second hand information on the net, but it is
certainly not hearsay.

I would be very happy to know about positive things Campbell has
done on behalf of Native people.


In peace,
Barbara

Newsgroups: alt.native
From: zedaker@next01wor.wam.umd.edu (Pamela Marie Weller)
Subject: Help!! I NEED INFO!!
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:51:08 GMT

Hello,

I am interested in any Native American information that I can get my hands  
on.  I've always been interested but I never knew who to believe, i.e.  
which stories are true and which are not.  I mostly want to know about  
Native American traditions, beliefs, philosophies, etc.  Also perhaps  
Native American literature by Native Americans.  

Is there a library in the Maryland/D.C. area that has a good collection?

Also,  I've heard that "A Man Called Horse" is a myth.  Is this true of  
"Dances With Wolves" also?  I truely enjoyed this movie and I hope that  
there were at least some facts in it.  I especially liked the idea that  
they used real Native American language (I believe that they even brought  
in a Native language specialist).

Also, I would be interested in corresponding through email with a Native  
American if anyone would be interested in talking to a  
"white-Scottish-countryish-girl-who-moved-to-the-city".

Thanks so much for you time.
--Pam  (zedaker@wam.umd.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.native
From: lcatlett@carson.u.washington.edu (Lynn Catlett)
Subject: Re: Marriage in NC
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:43:07 GMT

Perhaps the information about laws in NC
is from some period in the past:  When I was
in grade school in NC (late '50's/early '60's), it was technically
illegal for me to attend public school because
my ancestry exceeded the miniscule fraction of
Native American blood allowed.  I don't know 
how much it was ever enforced--at least in the
Piedmont--and it was repealed as an anachronism
before I left school.  There were probably laws
against intermarriage (miscegenation) on the books
until embarassingly recently, too, but they are
surely not there anymore...  There might also be
*tribal* laws... 'though the original post was 
so long ago that I don't know what I'm second-
guessing anymore!  
Cheers!
Lynn

Newsgroups: alt.native
From: mlw@moscow.cc.bellcore.com (wason,mary lu l)
Subject: romance novels
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 19:46:25 GMT



Hi everybody,

I'm interested in your opinions about the benefits and/or
disadvantages of native american characters in a popular 
genre called "the historical romance novel".
The time frame of these books takes place between 
1800 - 1860. I'm referring to the subset of these that
have native american heros and/or heroines.  
(I would guess this is about 10% of a huge market,
where each label prints 6 new titles a month.)

For those of you who have never read one of these books,
you might be surprised that they seem to be heavily
researched, the last one I read even had footnotes. They
often have a list of references at the end. And they
always use the native language for frequently used 
phrases.

Following are some pros and cons of portraying native
americans in these books that I see:

PROS:

The hero (native american) is portrayed as "the good guy" and most
often "the bad guy" is white. 

The culture of the hero's people is described in detail, with
emphasis on how women and children are treated.

The wiseness of certain native customs (like frequent bathing)
are contrasted with the stupidity of some white customs
(you'll get sick if you bathe).

The white heroine always gives up her white culture and lives
with the hero's people. She doesn't try to convince him to
live with her people.

Often references are given for further study of the hero's
culture.

The hero (native american) is portrayed as sensitive, caring, 
spiritual and patient. 


CONS:

The hero is ALWAYS a chief by the end of the book, if not
in the beginning. 


They always have a "happy ending", so it's interesting to see
how the author deals with this, based on the time frame of 
these novels. Usually it's dealt with 1) the hero moves his 
people further west or 2) the hero (with heroine's help)
gets a lot of money and buys land for his people. 
The books often have the final chapter as "ten years later",
when we see the couple with all their kids and how happy
they are, settled in their new place. This just doesn't
seem realistic.

The heroine is almost
always white and the hero is Native american. I've only seen
one novel where both the hero and heroine were native american.

Stereotyping, with positive or negative attributes, is 
stereotyping none the less.


Can you add to this list of pros and cons?
Thanks.
 	-Mary Lu

____________________________________________________________________

Mary Lu Wason 				mlw@moscow.cc.bellcore.com			
Bellcore 				Bell Communications Research 



-- 

-----------------
Mary Lu Wason
mlw@cc.bellcore.com
Newsgroups: alt.non.sequitur,talk.bizarre
From: mdw@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Re: what you have all been missing
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 20:37:12 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.201659.13813@netcom.com> gooley@netcom.com (Mark. Gooley) writes:
>
>From my dead.article file:

Post the entire file. The whole thing. Either that, or send it to me, and I'll
arrange it into something wonderful. 

I'd like to see works from the untarnished mind of Markian Gooley.

mdw

-- 
Matt Welsh    mdw@tc.cornell.edu        +1 607 253 2737
Systems Programmer, Cornell Theory Center
  "We're going away now. I fed the cat."
Newsgroups: alt.non.sequitur,alt.religion.kibology
From: mdw@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Lunch Today
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:33:59 GMT

Something called a "Steam Roll" which was actually an eggroll after an attack
by the Sta-Puff Marshmallow Man. Horrendous, if you ever encounter one of
these mutations I advise you steer WELL clear of it.

A dozen or so Wimpy French Fries. 

Two (2) Twelve (12) Oz. glasses of Dr. Pepper [tm]. As always.

A bowl of Honey Smacks with whole milk, eaten with my fingers because I 
didn't have a spoon.

A busload of nubile giggly Girl Scouts.

Wait. That wasn't lunch, never mind.

mdw

Xref: sparky alt.non.sequitur:730 alt.fan.matt.welsh:137 alt.magnus.and.ketil:39 alt.religion.kibology:4759
From: pentangl@spdcc.com (Scott Moir)
Newsgroups: alt.non.sequitur,alt.fan.matt.welsh,alt.magnus.and.ketil,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Poetry.
Date: 18 Nov 92 02:36:20 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Nov16.043914.9654@tc.cornell.edu> mdw@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Matt Welsh) writes:
>Le Morte D' Magnus and Ketil (part 1 of 318)
>
>Hark! He programmeth in Many Tounges!
>Upon Small Crawling Machines that knoweth not
>Of Multitasking, Flat Address Space of Thirty Two Bits,
>Yea! Even Page'd Memory!
>Upon Large Lumbering Machines, fast as Zeus'
>Lightning itself! Spinning endless webs, 
>Coding, Compiling, Linking, and doth Executing.
>
>He wasteth Time! He feeds the Hungry Tract of
>Shub-Internet, Eater of Mankind's Soul!
>He posteth, and flameth, and createth Bogus Groups,

Shouldnt that be Boguth Groupths? I read it out loud and it sounded natural.

Yay, fjords!

-- 
Deanne Taylor, undergrad, Wellesley College.|  My candle burns at both ends
Email address: dtaylor@lucy.wellesley.edu   |  It will not last the night 
Opinions are probably not S.Moir's. Okay?   |  But ah my foes and oh my friends
____________Quote: Edna St. Vincent Millay. |  It gives such lovely light!
Newsgroups: alt.non.sequitur,talk.bizarre
From: gooley@netcom.com (Mark. Gooley)
Subject: delicious sprockets squirm with relief
Followup-To: alt.fan.gooley
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:30:38 GMT

	The spirit of carnauba wax filled her veins, and she precipitated
out of solution and formed the scum of the earth in the secret places of
the stares of the incredulous crowd.  Sigmoid Frund, the great-uncle of
modern cycle-analysis and S-shaped, brought his colonoscopy instruments
and played a sonata on them, enchanting her into the form of a slug made
of motor-oil meringue.  With spoons chipped by robotic beavers from human
skulls, the mob attacked and ate her.  I levitated above this sorry scene,
taking notes for posterity and a newspaper article I was writing about
Grenoble, wondering about Canberra and eels.
	When the bustle had died down and women no longer enhanced their
backsides so arsiduously, I plummeted gently to the rubber paving-bricks
of the circular square, landing in front of the equestrian statue of
Trigger, Roy and Buck and Mister Rogers' horse, mounted on a stallion and
gimbals that would never tell Macy's Tanks-giving Day Parade.  Unorthodox
priests, incensed, were censing it with incense, insensible of the
nonsensicality of the act and of my presence.  The words of their chants
were from songs unpopularized by Elves' Parsley, but the tunes were based
on debased Ambrosian Chant that sounded ambrosial nevertheless, nevermore.
	A strong hand raised me from the pavement; it was attached to a
beautiful blonde Amazon from the Amazon, six foot two of hard muscle sheathed
in soft woman-skin.  Her wistful gray eyes had the maternal tenderness of
a good steak, and I melted into a blob of disgusting jelly, which she
carefully wrapped in a used garbage-can and ocean liner and sailed into the
Atlantic.  By the third day out, I had pulled myself together into a
sensitive Alan Alda type, whom she disdained and threw overboard to the
rare salt-water piranhas that swam in our Finnegans wake.
 
Mark.
gooley@netcom.com

Newsgroups: alt.non.sequitur,alt.fan.matt.welsh,alt.religion.kibology,alt.magnus.and.ketil,alt.prose
From: mdw@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Wheat Thins
Organization: Cornell Theory, Diet, and Nutrition Center
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 19:32:25 GMT

NUTRITION INFORMATION PER SERVING
Serving Size 1/2 oz.   (8 crackers)
Servings per package..........3 1/2
Calories.........................70
Protein......................1 GRAM
Carbohydrate................9 GRAMS
Fat.........................3 GRAMS
  Polysaturated...................*
  Saturated.......................*
Cholesterol............0 MILLIGRAMS
Sodium...............120 MILLIGRAMS

* Contains less than 1 gram

PERCENTAGE OF U.S. RECOMMENDED DAILY ALLOWANCES (U.S. RDA)
Protein...........................2
Vitamin A........................**
Vitamin C........................**
Thiamine..........................4
Riboflavin........................2
Niacin............................4
Calcium..........................**
Iron..............................2

** Contains less than 2% of the U.S. RDA of these nutrients

mdw

Newsgroups: alt.non.sequitur,talk.bizarre