From: datepper@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Aaron Tepper)
Subject: Re: Christian Pro-Choicers (was Re: An Abortion Argument that has nothing to do with OT and NT)
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 05:14:12 GMT

In article  <C0q4x6.L8p@athena.cs.uga.edu>, hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu
(Paul Hudson Jr) writes:

>Why do people get so shocked to see the fetus-in-a-bottle?  I have seen
>cataracts in a bottle and I don't get shocked.  But when you carry a
>dead human body around, it is shocking.  It is supposed to be.  (That is
>why i wouldn't carry an preborn baby in a jar- I wouldn't lug the victim
>of a holocoast victim for its shock value either.)

Why do people get so shocked to see gore and splatter in a Jason
movie? Why do people get so shocked at Madonna's book _Sex_? Shock
value and moral judgements do not go hand-in-hand -- nor should
they. And yes, I have seen the fetus-in-a-bottle trick, at the
medical museum of the Universite de Montpellier. Your pickled
abortoids hold nothing to some of the stuff there. That doesn't
make them good or bad, just strange to human eyes.

>>You're kidding, right?  Let's get one thing straight, Paul.  The
>>Holocaust doesn't work very well as an analogy to the abortion
>>issue. I'd suggest backpedalling at flank speed to avoid being
>>flamed to a crisp. The Holocaust, the systematic and deliberately
>>cruel extermination of Jews. Slavs, gypsies, assorted other
>>"undesirable" ethnic minorities and disabled people by a
>>totalitarian government, is not an analogy to anything.
>So, you still haven't given me a reason why the holocoust is not a most
>excellent analogy.  Nazi's killed Jews and took their money.  Here in
>the U.S, unborn children are killed in order to free up some extra cash.
>Its not much different.  Its not much different from sacrificing
>children to Molech, a sex-god, in order to get a better grain
>harvest (to bring in a religious aspect.)

Z/e/f's are not only aborted to free up extra cash. Sometimes the
mother is too young; sometimes she just doesn't know how to raise
a baby; sometimes she puts children aside for know so she can make
a better life for the ones she plans to have later; sometimes
she's physically or mentally ill; sometimes she doesn't have the
equipment or motivation to care for a child. While abortion can be
and has been used for evil purpose, there is no connection between
abortion and the wholesale, nationally premeditated massacre that
was the Holocaust.

[stuff deleted to save bandwidth]

>Don't try to trivialize this holocaust.  That holocaust was truely
>horrible, but it is similar in many ways to what is happening now.  A
>kind of moral blindness descended on the people.  The soldiers and other
>Germans were actually able to convince themselves that what they were
>doing was okay. It is true that many Germans did not know everything
>that was happening, but they did know that the Jews were sent away from
>their homes to concentration camps.  Can you believe that the German
>people actually allowed this to happen?
>Many people today just believe the lie that the fetus is a lump of
>tissue. Maybe it is a good idea that we be forced to walk through the
>concetration camp and see what has been done.

Okay. Then afterwards we can all visit the children who were unwanted
and unloved, and whose lives are truly wretched as a result, as well
as those women who did obtain a legal abortion whose lives
are the better for it. I should warn you, though, that I'm a biology
major. If you're trying to make me sick, I don't gross out easily.

Since we fundamentally disagree on what the fetus is, I should ask
you the same question I asked another anti-choicer here: what
defines a person? And before you say, "DNA", I've got another
centrifuge tube full of saline solution, and I'll swish out
my mouth again if I have to.

>Again, this is horrible.  and I take your word for it that this is true.
>But I did not pour the gas in the building, and I told you how I felt
>about such things.  I don't lump you together with specific groups of
>people who behave immorally at pro-choice rallies.

That's right, you did tell us how you felt about such things. You didn't
want to come out and condemn it, so you hemmed and hawed and praised
with faint damnation. You them implied it was okay to hit and kick
somebody escorting a patient into a family-planning clinic, a place
that, last time I checked, was perfectly legal to enter.

Okay, Link--start backpedaling!

Tep

-- 
I don't need you to worry for me 'cause I'm all right | Dear Lord, give
I don't want you to tell me it's time to come home.   | me chastity... 
I don't care what you say anymore, this is my life.   |    but not yet.
Go ahead with your own life, leave me alone. --B. Joel| --St. Augustine
Newsgroups: talk.abortion