HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Bruce.Scott@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Bruce Scott)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.fluids
Subject: Re: Coherent structures
Summary: review reference, effects of inhomogeneity
Keywords: turbulence
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:26:38 GMT
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

fearnley@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Fearnley Anne) writes:
>give me some references, I will be very grateful. 

A recent reference which discusses both plasmas and geo-fluids is
  A Hasegawa, Adv Phys 34, 1 (1985).

>     As well, how about some opinions on the subject itself, with
>supporting arguments. Some folks think the coherent structure business
>is rubbish and a craze, and some think its the key to turbulence.

Understanding why coherent structures (usually long-lived monopolar or
dipolar vortices) emerge from turbulence and survive it is interesting
and important. However, the practical importance is overblown. Most of
the results are specific to homogeneous and isotropic situations, which
do not describe the important natural ones. In plasmas, inhomogeneity
usually kills these things. Claims that coherent solitons can explain
turbulent transport of heat, particles, or momentum is certainly going
too far.

Gruss,
Dr Bruce Scott                             The deadliest bullshit is
Max-Planck-Institut fuer Plasmaphysik       odorless and transparent
bds at spl6n1.aug.ipp-garching.mpg.de                 -- W Gibson



--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: sci.geo.fluids
From: crb7q@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Cameron Randale Bass)
Subject: Re: Coherent structures
Keywords: turbulence
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:50:36 GMT

In article <29JUL199209002676@rigel.tamu.edu> s1b3832@rigel.tamu.edu (BAUM, STEVEN K) writes:
>In article <1992Jul28.014855.27248@cc.umontreal.ca>, fearnley@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Fearnley Anne) writes...
>>(I am posting this on my wife's account. Send any e-mail to me at
>>        TURNER@OSIRIS.PHY.UQAM.CA )
>> 
>>      I am a Ph.D. student trying to get a grasp of the subject of
>>coherent structures in turbulence, particularly in the atmospheric
>>surface layer. The articles are all over the place! If anyone can
>>give me some references, I will be very grateful. Wouldn't want to
>>miss some important 'thread' buried away in the literature.

     [stuff deleted]

>        Also, if I remember correctly, there is a chapter about
>      coherent structures by Hussain in the recent book that
>      overviews and critiques all the major approaches to
>      turbulence entitled _Whither Turbulence?_.  Methinks
>      that John Lumley is one of the editors.  Happy trails.

     Yes, Lumley (basically the father of coherent structures)
     is the editor.  It is a very good book from Springer-Verlag.
     There is a good section on coherent structures by people like
     Hussain and Bradshaw.

     You might also want to look up other papers by Lumley:

     "Coherent structures in turbulence",  In Transition and Turbulence
     edited by R. Meyer and "The state of turbulence research", in Advances
     in Turbulence edited by K. George and R. Arndt.

     In these papers and the ones mentioned by the previous poster,
     one can get a much better feel for the importance and applicability
     of the research, probably, than is likely from this type of forum.

     If this seems to fail, you could always give Lumley a call and see if he 
     will talk to you for a couple of minutes.

     Good luck.

                                 dale bass
--
C. R. Bass                                           crb7q@virginia.edu
Department of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering
University of Virginia
Charlottesville, Virginia                            (804) 924-7926
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology,ca.earthquakes
From: derion@VAX309.NOSC.MIL (Toni Derion)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
Subject: Big One probability
Date: 27 Jul 92 19:55:44 GMT
Reply-To: derion@VAX309.NOSC.MIL
Organization: Naval Health Research Center, San Diego, CA

I recently moved to southern CA and was jolted (or rather, shaken)
awake at 5 a.m. on June 28 by the "Landers" quake.  Being a native
of western NY state, I had no previous experience with this kind of
natural phenomenon.  Needless to say, I was unnerved!

Having never taken a geology course, and given the superb job the
media do at misquoting seismologists and others knowledgeable on
such matters as earthquakes, I just don't know what to think or believe
anymore.  Can someone answer these questions for me?

1) what is the probablility that the "Big One" will REALLY happen,
soon, given the recent seismic activity?

2) I was told that seismic activity has really increased in this
part of the country within the last 5 yrs.  Is this true and does
it mean we'd better get ready for an 8.0'er or greater?

3) Is it true that the farther we get away, calendar-wise, from June
28 without another major quake occurring, the LESS the chances are of
a big one occurring?

Thanks in advance!

Toni Derion
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
Subject: ploting pyroxene chemistries
From: reyes@elspeth.la.asu.edu (David Reyes)
Date: 18 Jul 92 13:02:31 GMT
Distribution: sci.geo.geology
Organization: Mars Observer TES Project, ASU, Tempe AZ


Hi!

I'm trying to plot pyroxene chemistries on a MgSiO3-CaSiO3-FeSiO3 ternary
diagram. My problem is that I have a *lot* of points to plot.  Therefore,
I was wondering if anyone out there is aware of any software or shareware
that runs on an IBM-PC, Mac, or Sparc that would plot ternary diagrams.
I would appreciate any suggestions.
Please post any response to this news group or to my address below.
Thanks for your time!

David Reyes

reyes@elspeth.la.asu.edu

*************************

Clinton/Gore 1992!

************************
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
From: hough@seismo.gps.caltech.edu (Susan Hough)
Subject: Re: "Early Warning Earthquake Forecast" from Jack Cole
Summary:  yes, but eventually one of these has to be right 
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:14:05 GMT

In article <24726@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM> wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Bruce Watson) writes:
>In article <#dcml3f.jefff@netcom.com- jefff@netcom.com (Jeff Irwin) writes:
>-: This would indicate to this forecaster that there is a 54% probability
>-: of a 3.5 - 5.0+ earthquake with the epicenter within a 150 mile radius
>-: of areas South of South San Jose California beginning Tuesday, July
>-: 14, 1992, 08:01 GMT and ending at Saturday, July 18, 1992, 08:01 GMT.
>-
>-I've been out of town for a couple days... Did I miss it?? How big was
>-it? Was there any damage? Any injuries? I just hate it when they give an 
>-earthquake and I miss it!

Here in Pasadena, the office has been getting a steady stream of phone
calls from pyschics and other concerned citizens who give us their
earthquake forecasts.  Combining this with the various other forecasts
and predictions that pop up on the newsgroups and elsewhere, I conclude
that it's almost inevitable that the next big earthquake will indeed
be predicted by somebody.

Sue Hough
USGS, Pasadena 

Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
From: anne@cco.caltech.edu (Anneliese Lilje)
Subject: Re: "Early Warning Earthquake Forecast" from Jack Cole
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 03:02:03 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.080815.12884@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk> uccgfbm@ucl.ac.uk (Mr William Murphy) writes:
>hough@seismo.gps.caltech.edu (Susan Hough) writes:
>
>>In article <24726@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM> wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Bruce Watson) writes:
>>>In article <#dcml3f.jefff@netcom.com- jefff@netcom.com (Jeff Irwin) writes:
>>>-: This would indicate to this forecaster that there is a 54% probability
>>>-: of a 3.5 - 5.0+ earthquake with the epicenter within a 150 mile radius
>>>-: of areas South of South San Jose California beginning Tuesday, July
>>>-: 14, 1992, 08:01 GMT and ending at Saturday, July 18, 1992, 08:01 GMT.
>>>-
>>>-I've been out of town for a couple days... Did I miss it?? How big was
>>>-it? Was there any damage? Any injuries? I just hate it when they give an 
>>>-earthquake and I miss it!
>
>>Here in Pasadena, the office has been getting a steady stream of phone
>>calls from pyschics and other concerned citizens who give us their
>>earthquake forecasts.  Combining this with the various other forecasts
>>and predictions that pop up on the newsgroups and elsewhere, I conclude
>>that it's almost inevitable that the next big earthquake will indeed
>>be predicted by somebody.
>
>>Sue Hough
>>USGS, Pasadena
>The most effective piece of earthquake prediction was done by the mass
>mobilization of the Chinese population in the Luaoning province. They 
>monitered everything from well levels by school children to animal
>behaviour by owners. Seismologists of course did the technical bit. Very
>few people were killed by this earthquake despite it being magnitude 7.4.
>Personally, I'm not in the prediction business and it working one time in
>many thousands is not very satisfactory. At least it will keep the US Mail
>in revenue!

okay...I might almost agree with this....

so how do we get all the grammer school aged children in L.A. to do this
in between gang shootings.

ann

>
>Bill Murphy
>UCL


Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology,ca.earthquakes
From: baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
Subject: International Venus Colloquium
Keywords: Venus, Magellan
Date: 31 Jul 92 06:10:55 GMT
Reply-To: baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

This is being forwarded from a Magellan team member.

  *****************************************************

     From August 10-12, 1992, an "International Venus Colloquium"
will be help at the California Institute of Technology's Ramo
Auditorium in Pasadena.  More than 100 scientific researchers
from around the world will present their results based on data
from NASA's Magellan and Pioneer Venus missions and on earlier
Soviet missions to Venus.  The colloquium will be particularly
timely, as Magellan has almost completed its third radar mapping
cycle around Venus, while Pioneer Venus is nearing its final
entry into the planet's atmosphere.

     The Lunar and Planetary Institute is providing organization
for the colloquium.  Pam Jones (telephone 713-486-2150, facsimile
713-486-2160) is the point of contact for registration or
logistics questions.

     The conveners of the scientific program are Dr. R. Stephen
Saunders at JPL (telephone 818-393-0877, facsimile 818-393-0530)
and Dr. Sean C. Solomon at MIT (telephone 617-253-3786, facsimile
617-253-1699).

     Registration before August 3 through LPI is $40 (students
$20).  At the colloquium, registration will be $50 (students
$30).  A free public lecture hosted by the Planetary Society will
be held on Monday evening, August 10 at 8:00 PM.  Dr. A. T.
Basilevsky from the Vernadsky Institute, of the Russian Academy
of Sciences will speak on "Views of Venus: An Historical
Perspective".

     Those interested in more information about this colloquium
or any of a broad range of other planetary programs in which the
Lunar and Planetary Institute is involved may use an electronic
bulletin board over the national computer networks.  On SPAN
(DECNET), set host to LPI::.  On Internet, connect by "telnet" to
"lpi.jsc.nasa.gov" (192.101.147.11).  On either network, give the
username "lpi".  Among many other topics, this system gives
access to the latest announcement and registration form for the
Venus colloguium.  It also provides access to the full set of
abstracts for the papers which will be presented.
     ___    _____     ___
    /_ /|  /____/ \  /_ /|     Ron Baalke         | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov
    | | | |  __ \ /| | | |     Jet Propulsion Lab |
 ___| | | | |__) |/  | | |__   M/S 525-3684 Telos | Most of the things you 
/___| | | |  ___/    | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | worry about will never
|_____|/  |_|/       |_____|/                     | happen.
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology,ca.earthquakes
From: tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu
Subject: Re: Proposal for News Awareness
Organization: Indiana University
Date: 25 Jul 92 01:31:03 -0500

In article <1992Jul23.233151.19839@nezsdc.icl.co.nz>, derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne) writes:
> In article <1992Jul18.163852.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes:
>>People: I have been following the discussion of the abuses of the facts
>>that take place when the news media report on things geological.  I
>>have come up with a hare-brained idea.
>>
>>Proposal:
>>Generate, in sci.geology, a primer for the "hot topics" (in the eyes of
>>the public and journalism) in geology.  The primer to be in the form of
>>papers written by professional geologist then edited by journalists to
>>conform to journalistic style, etc.  And THEN re-submitted to the
>>geologists for final checks on accuracy.  
> 
> Great idea.  The objective being to put an end to stereotypes like the 
> slow, stupid dinosaur,  Tyranosaurus Rex fighting the Triceratops and the....
> 
>>gin soaked, lazy, knuckle-dragging, nuchal ridged, Homo habilis of a
>                    ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^  ^^^^ ^^^^^^^
>>journalist would have to work to screw it up.
>  
> We'll never get rid of these mistakes if we use them ourselves.  Just
> one picture of the march of evolution from stooping knuckle dragging ape 
> gradually getting bigger and more upright until modern man  (even on a 
> guiness advert) and we're back to square one.
> 
> Habilis was pretty squarely upright.  No knuckle dragging there! and just 
> because they came before us doesn't mean they were lazy (or stupid). 
> They would probably have drunk Gin though given half a chance...
> 
> Did Habilines have nuchal ridges?(I am not to clear on this point)
> 
> This is not a flame - just trying to point out how careful _we_
> have to be when complaining about others lack of knowledge.
> 
> 
> Derek Tearne

Sigh...
It seemed like such an easy, workable idea.  Really not very labor intensive
for the good it might have done.

At age forty you would think I would have the idealism kicked out of me by
now.

Other than one favorable posting and two gracious personal replies for
which I am most grateful, the only other entity I have heard from seems
to be the Habiline Antidefamation League and it seems they are incapable
of differentiating between fact and the exaggeration inherent to _humor_.
(This, sadly, is a flame.)

Proposal withdrawn.

Thomas Freebairn
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
Subject: Geology GRE Study Guide?
From: sbailey@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 03:35:11 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City

Greetings!

Does anyone know of a study guide (i.e. Barron's or the like) for the 
geology GRE?  

I may be stuck with thumbing through old textbooks but I thought I'd ask
around anyway.

Thanks!

sbailey@VAX.1.umkc.edu
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
Subject: Re: Proposal for News Awareness
From: derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 23:31:51 GMT
Organization: Fujitsu New Zealand

In article <1992Jul18.163852.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes:
>People: I have been following the discussion of the abuses of the facts
>that take place when the news media report on things geological.  I
>have come up with a hare-brained idea.
>
>Proposal:
>Generate, in sci.geology, a primer for the "hot topics" (in the eyes of
>the public and journalism) in geology.  The primer to be in the form of
>papers written by professional geologist then edited by journalists to
>conform to journalistic style, etc.  And THEN re-submitted to the
>geologists for final checks on accuracy.  

Great idea.  The objective being to put an end to stereotypes like the 
slow, stupid dinosaur,  Tyranosaurus Rex fighting the Triceratops and the....

>gin soaked, lazy, knuckle-dragging, nuchal ridged, Homo habilis of a
                   ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^  ^^^^ ^^^^^^^
>journalist would have to work to screw it up.
 
We'll never get rid of these mistakes if we use them ourselves.  Just
one picture of the march of evolution from stooping knuckle dragging ape 
gradually getting bigger and more upright until modern man  (even on a 
guiness advert) and we're back to square one.

Habilis was pretty squarely upright.  No knuckle dragging there! and just 
because they came before us doesn't mean they were lazy (or stupid). 
They would probably have drunk Gin though given half a chance...

Did Habilines have nuchal ridges?(I am not to clear on this point)

This is not a flame - just trying to point out how careful _we_
have to be when complaining about others lack of knowledge.


Derek Tearne


-- 
Derek Tearne  derek@icl.co.nz or derek@fivegl.co.nz --Fujitsu SDC,Auckland,NZ

My 'self aware' .signature file failed his Turing test.  
It turns out he was just a chess playing midget in a decorative box.
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
From: clarkg@xenolith.its.rpi.edu (George Clarkson)
Subject: digitized plate boundaries??
Reply-To: clarkg@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 15:07:59 GMT


Does anyone know of a source of digitized plate boundaries? I routinely
produce earthquake maps from the NEIC data that I receive over BITNET. I
would like to overlay on these maps the plate boundaries (not that most
of them aren't pretty obvious from the earthquake distribution) so that
the non-geologists that look at these maps can readily pick out some of
the less-defined boundaries. 
 
Does anyone know of a source for such data? 
Thanks!
 
George R. Clarkson
    Scientific Applications Consultant
    Information Technology Services
    VCC 218
    Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
    Troy, NY 12180
     
    (518)-276-2752
    clarkg@rpi.edu (should work from anywhere)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
From: frank@mlb.geomechanics.csiro.au (Frank Horowitz)
Subject: Re: What is happening in California?
Followup-To: sci.geo.geology
Organization: CSIRO Geomechanics
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 10:27:30 GMT

In article <1992Jul19.171928.2554@acc.com>, art@acc.com (Art Berggreen)
wrote:
> 
> In article <ta+my!n@lynx.unm.edu> pjohnso@triton.unm.edu (Paddy Johnson CIRT) writes:
> >Mention was made earlier today of an article in the NY Times about 
> >the Landers, Big Bear, etc earthquakes and what they mean in terms
> >of possibly leading up to something (the big one?).  For those of 
> >use who will have access to the July 13, 1992 somewhere around July
> >21, 1992 or later because we live in New Mexico (obviously a foreign
> >country) can someone out there either summarize the article or 
> >give some ideas as to what these earthquakes mean, if any thing?
> 
> I hope someone from Caltech with the proper credentials will reply, but
> I'll toss out what I think I've heard.
> 
> It's my understanding that the Landers and Big Bear quake sequences form
> a rough triangle with a locked segment of the San Andreas as its base.
> The net result of the quakes has been to suddenly dump more stress onto
> the locked segment, which could already be nearly ready to rupture.  I
> believe this is the major concern being voiced.
> 
> Art

Is it true (as is seemingly reported in the NY Times sketch map of the
situation) that the fault motion from the Big Bear event was left-lateral
strike-slip?

__________________________________________________________________
Frank Horowitz;                            frank@mlb.geomechanics.csiro.au 

CSIRO-Geomechanics, P.O. Box 54, Mt. Waverley, Victoria 3149, AUSTRALIA
Tel. (03)881-1247 (Int'l +61 3 881 1247),FAX (03)803-2052 (+61 3 803 2052)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
From: okunewck@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Phil OKunewick)
Subject: Re: "Early Warning Earthquake Forecast" from Jack Cole
Organization: Random, at best
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 21:20:33 GMT

rchilder@us.oracle.com (Richard Childers) writes:
>karl@ttank.ttank.com (Karl Bunch) writes:
>
>>Hmm.. I know a "psychic" that said there would be a "big one" tomorrow
>>Tuesday, July 21st around 10:00 am and/or pm.  (Wasn't sure, she saw
>>an analog clock on the wall in her "image" that read sometime around 10:00).
>>
>>I think she's probally as acurate as Jack Coles is.. ;-)
>
>I think your lack of respect for pure research is appalling.

   Pure research?  Who said anything about pure research?  We were
discussing Jack Cole.
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
Subject: CalTech/USGS "Information" line???
From: karl@ttank.ttank.com (Karl Bunch)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 05:53:55 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Think Tank Software, Norwalk, CA

Is there an "Information" line that can be called at CalTech Re: earthquakes?

I was camping just outside Arrowhead (Big Bear area) this weekend and I 
would swear that around 20:07 pst we had several light quakes.  Me and
my brother were sitting on a huge rock formation and could feel the
ground "quake" when we laid our hands flat on the rocks.  It seemed
to go on until around 20:39 or so.. And then it tapered off and/or
we got less sensitive.  (Not to mention we went back to camp shortly
after that).

It would've been nice to have called CalTech and listen to a recording
or something.  Or even ftp to a host that kept "semi-on-line" reports.

I would really rather not "distract" anyone that was getting real work done. 

Thanks,
Karl
-- 
% ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
% Karl Bunch                        ||| UUCP: ..!uunet!cerritos.edu!ttank!karl
% Think Tank Software               ||| INTERNET: karl@ttank.com
% 42.5% of all quoted statistics are made up, of those 23.185% are right. :-)
From: ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez)
Subject: science journalists
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 20:14:19 GMT

I can't resist jumping into the controversy on science journalism. In my
capacity as contributing editor to a small special interest horticulture
magazine, I have have had the opportunity to interview a number (admittedly
a small number) of USDA ARS researchers.  I have had no complaints from
any of them (so far).  Maybe my approach is unique, maybe not.  I really
don't know.

First of all, I always approach them with respect.  If possible I get
reprints relevant to the article to be written and read these before I
actually conduct the interview.  I prefer having these in advance because
I can then ask more sophisticated, and deeper, questions. If necessary I
will read the reprints afterward.  After the article has been written, I
fax (or would be willing to email) a copy of this to the resesearcher.
This gives my subject to catch anything either glaringly incorrect or
possibly politically awkward. ( In one instance, involving a man doing
fairly controversal work in tissue culture, vulnerability on a political
level was an issue.)

I think the fundamental issue is the need to approach the researcher (and
her or his work) with respect.  Granted I am only a part-timer in this and
the magazine in question is pretty obscure, but I believe my approach has
some merit.  And I doubt that I am the only one involved in science journalism
who approaches the topic this way.  We are not all gin-soaked knuckle-draggers.

Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology,ca.earthquakes
From: martin@space.ualberta.ca (Martin Connors)
Subject: heat flow on grid available?
Keywords: heat flow
Reply-To: martin@space.ualberta.ca (Martin Connors)
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:21:45 GMT

I wonder if there is a readily available source of gridded Earth heat flow  
on a relatively coarse grid (1 or 2 degrees, say). This would be very  
useful for correlative studies.

Martin Connors
Space Research
University of Alberta