HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hunter@nsslsun.nssl.uoknor.edu (Steve Hunter)
Subject: Re: Chaco Canyon next week?
Originator: usenet@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 14:44:51 GMT
Organization: National Severe Storms Laboratory

In article <x7krglr@lynx.unm.edu> galway@chtm.eece.unm.edu (Denis McKeon) writes:
>in them that everyone just drives around the side of, but the worst
>thing about the roads is that there is enough traffic over them when
>they are dry to produce almost continous washboard.  Clench your teeth.
>
>I haven't travelled them in winter, but to judge from other well
>travelled dirt roads in NW NM I would expect them to be very travelable -
>except perhaps during the spring rainy season.  Traction shouldn't be
>much of a problem during the rest of the year, but reasonable ground
>clearance and a bit of suspension are recommended.

Denis,
A good description of the roads and the Chaco logistics.  A minor 
point, however.  The rainy season in NM is July and August, when the
Southwest monsoon kicks in.  Although snow/snowmelt can be a problem
for these roads' passability in winter/spring.  Either way, I highly
recommend the Chaco experience to any human.

Steve Hunter
National Weather Service/NEXRAD radar office
Norman, OK
(Albuquerque native)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: travis@eecs.nwu.edu (Travis Marlatte)
Subject: Re: First Aid Liability
Organization: Rauland-Borg Corporation, Skokie IL
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:41:42 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.131457.22726@brtph560.bnr.ca> JB <jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com> writes:
>following possibility:  If you are currently certified and neglect to
>give aid where no other aid is available, you can be liable.  In other

I am a Red Cross instructor for First Aid and CPR and as far as I know,
my training is not specific to any geographic area within the U.S.

I was told during training and tell my classes that one can pass
an accident by and not get involved. Once one approaches the accident
and begins to give aid, then that person is bound to follow through.


-- 
Travis Marlatte
travis@eecs.nwu.edu
708-297-0055
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: hamid@engrg.uwo.ca (Mr. Hamid Mir)
Subject: Re: Winter Boots
Organization: DA&MRL, Engineering, UWO, London Ont. CA
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 19:43:51 GMT

> I have looked for the Korea boot (aka Mickey Mouse boots) and have
> not been able to find them ...

> Ed Harstead

Ed, you can mail order the authentic Mickey Mouse boots from Cabelas.
I have the catalog at home. If you don't have the number I could get it
for you.

Hamid Mir
From: jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: San Isabel range talk
Date: 29 Dec 92 03:05:57 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <725570122.AA08131@urchin.fidonet.org>, Carl.Seiler@f10.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Carl Seiler) writes:
> In a msg on <Dec 28 00:27>, jamiller writes:

       [San Isabel intro stuff...]

>  j> Has anyone else been there?  I really like the area and have been
>  j> there twice.
> 
> I was up there last May and hiked up to Venable Falls.  We tried to make
> it to Venable lakes, but the snow was too deep a the top and we couldn't
> find the trail.

The first year we went out was two years ago and I was with my wife.
We really only spent two days right around 85xx where the rainbow
trail comes around (wheels spinning to remember the name) wherever it
was we were.  This summer I went back with some friends and we hiked
over three peaks.  I don't have the map here with me but the venebale
lake area is nice.  I was really taken with the whole range.  Did you
get over to the hot springs on the west side of the mountain?  We
usually go up to a hot springs near Mt. Prestone.

BTW, has anyone done any hiking in Japan.  I know some really fine
spots in the Hokuriku area (I was in Fukui in high school for a year).

> Carl
-- 
jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
James Miller

_chicchai .sig no ho ga ichiban iin janai ka..._
             Enlightenment Happens?
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: neville@cs.washington.edu (Dorothy Neville)
Subject: Re: Slot canyon hiking
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 22:04:34 GMT

In article <3020027@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> frank@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Frank Cada (Contractor)) writes:
>Some brief advice:

>2. find a book written by Kelsey that describes canyons and indian
>   ruins in S Utah.

Beware, Kelsey is full of bad information, sometimes so wrong that it
is dangerous.  It is clear to me, after having done some of the hikes
in his books, that he has not done them himself (even though he said
he did).  According to a friend who is a national park ranger in
Southern Utah (lucky woman), he is regarded very poorly by those who
work in the backcountry.  Both for his incorrect information and his
unscrupulous ways of getting information from other people and not
crediting them for it.  My husband bought the Kelsey that we have
before we heard about the pitfalls.  After using Kelsey and
discovering the pitfalls myself, I would not buy another Kelsey guide
and provide him with any more royalties.  There is a somwhat better
guide now to the San Rafael Swell, by Steve Allen.

>6. Check into Bell and Wildhorse canyons for good slot canyons, see Kelsey.
>
you mean -little- wild horse canyon. the daytrip going up one and down
the other is a nice hike.

Dorothy Neville


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: dek2@cec2.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Dean E Kassmann)
Subject: Re: Maps in Binary form?  FTP sites for them?
Organization: Washington University, School of Engineering, St. Louis MO
Distribution: na 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 17:28:50 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.002128.45924@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
|> Does anyone know if there are topo or other maps in digital form
|> available anywhere?  Format of the pictures really wouldn't matter I
|> could convert them from pretty much anything.  They wouldn't need to
|> be too high depth so maybe you could mail them if you have them?
|> -- 

I looked into that exact same question.  What I found is the following:

1) The USGS does produce digital maps
2) Not all quads are available in digital form
3) Chances are, what you are interested in is what the USGS calls DEM's
   (Digital Elevation Maps.)  They are the same as topos but digitalized.
4) The main problem here is that these maps are only available in tape format.
5) There are, however, 4 different companies in the U.S. (if I remember
   correctly) that take these tape and covert them to something usable by the
   average person for use on a pc or the like.   
6) I believe what is needed is some type of CAD system, whether it be AutoCAD
   or whatever.  You can then load up the maps on that.   
7) The only company whose name I can currently remember is American Digital
   Cartography.  I don't know the number offhand.
   Your best line of attack is to contact both the USGS and American Digital 
   Cartography and request information on the subject.  (They will be happy to
   send you all kinds of stuff, I know).  Also, the USGS will be able to
   provide the names and numbers of the other companies.

I do not know of any FTP sites or of any place with binary files of maps. The
closest information I know is above.  I hope it helps.


-- 
Dean Kassmann            |
 dek2@wucec1.wustl.edu   |  
--  The other night I was lying in bed, looking up at the stars, and  --
           I wondered, "Where the FUCK is my ROOF ?!?"
From: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: iodine crystals: how?
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 22:13:47 EST(-0500)
Organization: Accuracy, Ltd.
Reply-To: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v0

zulauf@orbit.Colorado.EDU (Mike Zulauf) writes:
>   How do I use this stuff?

You have discovered why people buy Polar Pure -- it comes with instructions,
all the necessary equipment, and the right size crystals.  And at a very
reasonable price for the complete package, even if it is high just for the
iodine.

Edward Reid  (8*}>
  eel:   ed@titipu.resun.com  or  nosc.mil!titipu.resun.com!ed
  snail: PO Box 378/Greensboro FL 32330
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: bcollins@utdallas.edu (ARLIN B COLLINS)
Subject: Re: Nice low-traffic hike in Central Colorado, San Isabel range.
Organization: Univ. of Texas at Dallas
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 07:49:24 GMT

In article <725570122.AA08131@urchin.fidonet.org> Carl.Seiler@f10.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Carl Seiler) writes:
>In a msg on <Dec 28 00:27>, jamiller writes:
>
> j> If anyone is looking for nice sites for spring in Colorado, look 
> j> into to the San Isabel range in central Colorado.  There's a 
> j> small town called Westcliffe on the east side of the range 
                       ^^^^^^^^^^
     I was at a church retreat back in '78 or so and hiked
     up Mt.Horn (14K ft) -- early June.  wonderful trip...
     In town, I took a photo of the delivery truck for the
     local hotel, the "slogan" was:
	   "Westcliffe, CO - Home of the Toad Hotel,
	    where kids with warts stay free"
                            -Arlin

> j> that has supplies if you ever get desperate but other than 
> j> that it's free of tourists and a really nice hike with about 5 
> j> peaks all over 12,xxx ft.  There's plenty of small lakes and 
> j> rivers and some nice places to climb, although I didn't see 
> j> anyone climbing nor did I.
> j> Has anyone else been there?  I really like the area and have been
> j> there twice.
>I was up there last May and hiked up to Venable Falls.  We tried to make
>it to Venable lakes, but the snow was too deep a the top and we couldn't
>find the trail.
>Carl
> 

-- 
 Arlin B Collins    Tue 29 Dec   Sun   Civil  Naut   Astro
 bcollins@utdallas.edu   rise:  07:30  07:02  06:32  06:02
 lat N32.9 long W096.9    set:  17:30  17:58  18:29  18:59
From: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: HOLLOW POINTS in the backcountry
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 18:15:21 EST(-0500)
Organization: Accuracy, Ltd.
Reply-To: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v0

dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard) writes:
> An assassin is murdering loan hunters in the backwoods, by sniping from cover.

Holy cow!  And just when I thought taking out a loan was safe because
interest rates are so low!

Edward Reid  (8*}>
  eel:   ed@titipu.resun.com  or  nosc.mil!titipu.resun.com!ed
  snail: PO Box 378/Greensboro FL 32330
From: ST1T0@jetson.uh.edu (Carl Seiler)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Nice low-traffic hike in Central Colorado, San Isabel ra
Date: 31 Dec 1992 17:15:26 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: elroy.uh.edu
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

In <1hv8ouINN3lf@menudo.uh.edu> ST1T0@jetson.uh.edu writes:

>  In <1hu71nINNijf@hp-col.col.hp.com> jerryk@col.hp.com writes:
>  
>  >  San Isabel National Forest is in the Wet Mtns, East of Westcliff,
>  > The range west of Westcliffe is the Sangre de Christo.
>  >
>  
>  San Isabel National Forest is on both sides of Westcliffe, covering 
>  the West Mtns and the Sangre de Christos.  Along the top of the 
>  mountains, San Isabel NF backs up to Rio Grande NF.    

I should add that I don't know of any mountain range that goes by San 
Isabel, just the NF.  The San Isabel range was something the original 
poster used in his/her post.  It just remained in the subject line.

Carl

--
Carl Seiler                         |  Department of Econonmics
Graduate Student                    |  University of Houston
ST1T0@jetson.uh.edu                 |  Tel: (713)743-3844
FidoNet: 1:106/10.0                 |  Data: (713)748-7353
All babbling is mine, not UofH's.   |  I've got a CI$ number somewhere...
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: zulauf@orbit.Colorado.EDU (Mike Zulauf)
Subject: iodine crystals: how?
Originator: zulauf@orbit
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:25:42 GMT

Hello Again, Netters,

     Last week I posted a question concerning the use of different forms
of iodine for water purification.  Based on various replies concerning
shelf life, cost, reliability after exposure to moisture, etc., I chose
to give iodine crystals a try.
     I very easily located a 1 oz. bottle of resublimed iodine crystals
at a local drug store.  Now the question remains:

  How do I use this stuff?

More precisely, how do I accurately measure out the correct amount to
add to my water?  The crystals seem to be relatively dense, so I'm sure
not much is needed.  They range in size from about 1 cubic milimeter,
up to maybe 20 times as large.
     Also, how should the crystals be handled and stored?  The label
notes:

   Severe contact hazard!  Light sensitive material.

Thanks in advance for any replies,
                                   Mike Zulauf
                                   zulauf@orbit.colorado.edu
From: sheart@toz.buffalo.ny.us (Saltheart Foamfollowe)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Snowshoeing (sp?)
Date: 27 Dec 92 21:26:27 GMT
Organization: The Tower of Zot - (716)8338-616


 
Hello people...
 
I have a friend of mine that has expressed an interest in doing 
snowshoeing (is that how you spell it with the "-ing" ?!).  And, after 
giving it some thought I thing that it is probably a lot of fun and I 
think I might like to get started also...
 
Can someone suggest a good place to get started?  I mean, when/how to buy 
snow shoes, recommended places, other tips/techniques/references?  Any 
info would be greatly appreciated...
 
   -Adrian

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Real Life:  Adrian Zannin            |  Riker: "Looks like he died in |
|  Internet:  sheart@toz.buffalo.ny.us |          his sleep."           |
|       CIS:  75360,630                |                                |
|--------------------------------------|   Worf: "What a horrible way   |
|    >  This space for rent <          |          to die."              |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: jwmorris@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Jeff Morris)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: HOLLOW POINTS in the backcountry
Date: 21 Dec 92 12:45:03 GMT
Reply-To: jwmorris@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Jeff Morris)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.backcountry, dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb) writes:
>
>Nothing like a little disinformation to try to give hunters a bad name.
>Eh, Woodie? Good try but even the world's biggest idiot wouldn't buy
>a load that smells this rotten.
>--
 I agree.  This "Woody" posting is phony.  This type of tactic disgusts
me.
From: Carl.Seiler@f10.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Carl Seiler)
Sender: Jpunix@urchin.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Winter Boots
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 16:00:46 -0500

In a msg on <Dec 25 20:54>, Mikael Niku writes:

 MN>         There has been some discussion about winter boots.
 MN> I'd like to ask (again !) if the concept of RUBBER BOOT is 
 MN> totally unknown to Americans, etc. !
 MN>  
 MN>         In Finland, we have these winter rubber boots with
 MN> extra warm soles and thick removable felt shoe inside. A little
 MN> bit heavy, perhaps, but keep your feet warm - and dry, in all
 MN> weathers. Easy to get dry, as you can pull the felt shoe out of 
 MN> the boot. Durable. And can be used as ski boots. 

Sounds like what I call a snowmobile boot.  I wear a rubber boot like
that before and after skiing.  They fit your description exactly, except
you can't use them as ski boots.  Most ski boots I've seen are
hard-shelled with clips for the skis.  These aren't like that at all,
but do have the rubber outsides with the removable wool-felt insides as
you describe.

Carl
 


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Subject: Re: GPS, PC or non-PC?
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu
Organization: BSU - Data Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 22:15:53 GMT

In article <1hnemeINN7np@morrow.stanford.edu>, AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu
 (Marc Whitney) writes:
|>The original concern of this thread was that the writer felt one
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Nope, my original concern was that I would spend the holiday reading
nothing but discussions on how to waterproof tentbottoms.

|>might be tainted or morally compromised by using a device for
|>recreational purposes that had its technological origin in weapons
|>research.  I don't propose to debate that topic in this arena, i.e.,
|>wether or not such reaearch is justifiable or not, etc., etc.  I
|>would like to argue, however, that such a debate is somewhat
|>contrived since it is nearly impossible to participate in any
|>backcountry activity (or nearly any other activity!) without the use
|>of some technology developed to adress a military need.  Perhaps the
|>the most pervasive of all is Nylon (aka Perlon) which was developed
|>as a sustitute for silk and other natual fibers in WWI.
|>
|>Of course one could always run through the woods buck nekkid -- not
|>entirely out of the question.
|>

I mostly agree, that's why I used the term PC in the title, since,
it's also darn near impossible to be politically correct these days.

What I DO think is important, however, is that one at least keeps in
mind that 1) it's much easier to accept new technology if it's personally
beneficial and not harmfull to one's own backyard, and 2) there is
a difference between the judging of actions and the discussion of actions,
well, err, at least, there CAN be, should be, ...

Just think of it, if a few of us can buy these toys to run around
locating ourselves, why can't people with very nasty and violent 
agendas use this stuff?  The EF! article implied the Chinese govt
used this technology during the Tienanmen massacre ... I doubt it,
but ... why not?
 
--
Greg Jahn Boise State Univ.| "Spoils of war are spoils of war,
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu /|  says junk man, owner of the junk. 
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    /|  Grafitti man's got something to
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  /|  say. "   - John Trudell

From: jimy@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Jimmie Yarnell)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:50:28 GMT
Subject: Re: Chaco Canyon next week?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

In rec.backcountry, jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn) writes:

    Briefly, has anyone out there been to Chaco Canyon, New Mexico
    in winter?  Is it reasonable to go there as a day trip from
    Albequerque?  How are the roads?

    mucho thanks

    --
    Greg Jahn Boise State Univ.| "Spoils of war are spoils of war,
    / jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu /|  says junk man, owner of the junk. 
    / dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    /|  Grafitti man's got something to
    / (208)385-3891.thephone  /|  say. "   - John Trudell


Briefly, has anyone out there been to Chaco Canyon, New Mexico
in winter?  Is it reasonable to go there as a day trip from
Albequerque?  How are the roads?

mucho thanks


A friend of mine visited Chaco Canyon a few winters ago, he said that

it wasn't too bad with the few inches of snow on the road, I might add

he was driving a Jeep 4 wheel drive Cherakee, as best as I could understand 

it the road is dirt so maybe there is traction that wouldn't be on asphalt.

  As for the time to round trip it , it didn't sound like it was much

more than a long day from Santa Fe, I plan on making the trip to Chaco

next week so I hope the snow doesn't become an issue.

         good luck!!!!!
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon)
Subject: Re: Recommendations wanted: day hikes at Big Bend NP, Texas
Organization: Texas Instruments
Distribution: na 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:37:02 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.161801.11550@newshost.lanl.gov>
mwj@beta.lanl.gov (William Johnson) writes:

>My turn to ask for some hiking advice: we'll be attending a mini-family reunion
>at Big Bend National Park between Christmas and New Years and are looking for
>suggestions on what to do.  The circumstances of the trip don't allow us to do
>anything on the river, so we're looking for day hikes of up to 10 miles (we'll
>be traveling with 8- and 5-year-olds, but the 5-year-old is *tough*...) with
>trailheads reachable via passenger car from the park HQ.  We're plenty
>experienced dry-country hikers, even the kids, and can handle ourselves in 
>rough country.  Any suggestions other than what's in the standard tourist
>blurbs?  Thanks in advance ...

It's been a few years since I've been to Big Bend, and I don't have the old
brochures at hand.  But this is what I remember.  The main lodge and camp
ground are in a basin in the center of the Chisos Mountains above the park
headquarters.  The road into the basin is fairly steep.  The camp ground is
first come first serve; the lodge requires reservations nearly a year in
advance.  The lodge is run by the same outfit that runs the lodge at Mammoth
Cave.  From the lodge, the easiest trail runs down to the keyhole.  Start the
trail so that you're at the keyhole at sunset.  The view across the
Chihuahuan Desert is awesome.  You'll be coming back in the dark.  Javelina
use the trail in the evening.  They're NOT tame.

Another popular trek goes up from the basin to the southwest rim.  It's too
strenuous a hike for small children.  However, you can rent horses for it in
the basin.  The rim provides the best views in the park.  Ansel Adams took
photographs up there.

Not far off this route is Emory Peak.  I think it's about 8000 feet.  It's
the highest point in the park.  There's a trail that goes all the way to the
summit.  It's an easy climb but may be too much for a small child.

Cary Czichon
czichon@csc.ti.com
From: au143@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mikael Niku)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Winter Boots
Date: 25 Dec 1992 20:54:14 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


        There has been some discussion about winter boots.
I'd like to ask (again !) if the concept of RUBBER BOOT is 
totally unknown to Americans, etc. !
 
        In Finland, we have these winter rubber boots with
extra warm soles and thick removable felt shoe inside. A little
bit heavy, perhaps, but keep your feet warm - and dry, in all
weathers. Easy to get dry, as you can pull the felt shoe out of the 
boot. Durable. And can be used as ski boots. 
 
-- 
----- Mikael Niku [a.k.a. Turilas]
***** E-Mail: au143@cleveland.freenet.edu
----- SnailMail: Puodinmaentie 23, 91900 Liminka, FINLAND
*********************************************************
From: frank@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Frank Cada (Contractor))
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:19:53 GMT
Subject: Re: Slot canyon hiking
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

Some brief advice:

1. don't go in the summer unless you enjoy very hot sunny days.

2. find a book written by Kelsey that describes canyons and indian
   ruins in S Utah.

3. get a good pair of hiking boots that stick to sandstone, most do.

4. look into Capitol Reef National Park and Needles district of Canyonlands
   National Park.

5. Look into the Grand Gulch area near National Bridges National Monument.
   Go to the Kane Ranger Station to ask advice.  There are many Anazazi
   indian ruin here.  Look but don't remove any artifacts.

6. Check into Bell and Wildhorse canyons for good slot canyons, see Kelsey.

7. Always take plenty of water, sunscreen, maps,  and raingear when you hike. 

8. learn about the danger of flash floods.


Enjoy and leave no trace of your visit.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.outdoors.fishing