HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Chester)
Newsgroups: alt.desert-storm
Subject: Re: Another Cover-Up?
Date: 5 Oct 92 05:01:46 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Sep29.170202.9130@menudo.uh.edu> HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.) writes:
)In <01GPCRMVZJSYG9L8C5@UMAECS> VIGNESWA@ecs.umass.edu writes:
)
)> According to another volunteer organization, 
)
)  Who?  Your statistic is meaningless without a source to back it up.
)
)>the child death in Iraq is
)> 1500 per day and there would be 170,000 child deaths in the next 5 year
)> period.  Due to this a whole generation has been destroyed.  The modern
)> techniques of war create a long term effect.
Wrong. Do your math. 1500x365.25x5= 2,739,375 dead. 
I have doubts about that number of dead, too.
)
)  Incorrect.  Most such areas could be up and running today if not for Saddam's
)intransigence.  And his desire to kill Kurds and Shiites.
)
)>  Destruction  of hospitals  
)> and waste treatment facilities etc  were the main cause of the indirect
)> effect of war in Iraq.
)
)  I saw no destroyed hospitals even during the Iraqi-led tours of devastated
)areas via CNN.  Hospitals are poor targets -- such deliberate actions would
)have lead to massive public outrage, and they do little good in destroying
)military effectiveness, i.e., casualties are already out of the war, the 
)bombs are wasted.
Actually, I did see coverage of a hospital that had been supposedly bombed
by Coalition forces. Looks like we got one or two.....rooms. Yeah right. One
500 pounder (guestimating) would probably take out an entire wing if not the
main building. Whatever did the damage shown was either a flak shell that had
a failed proximity fuse or one cluster bomblet. I doubt the bomblet because I 
saw no evidence of other similar damage since cluster bombs tend to saturate
a small area with bomblets.
)
)> Though I respect the  RED CROSS and AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL, I guess they
)> are not beyond the patriotism.
)
)  Which is to say they disagree with you.  Amnesty has never hesitated to be
>critical of the US.  Perhaps they have less of an agenda than Greepeace.
I severely doubt that those two organizations were influenced by our government.
Amnesty International regularly cites abuses in this country by our government
and the Red Cross is based in Switzerland which is out of reach.
)
)
)
)semper fi,
)
)Jammer Jim Miller 
)Texas A&M University '89 and '91
Never thought I'd agree with an Aggie.:)

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Chester            |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep
wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu |  all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein
Politically Incorrect      |"The meek shall inherit the earth. The rest of us
Future Lunar Colonist      |  are going to the stars." Anonymous
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
Newsgroups: alt.desert-storm
Subject: Re: **** ANOTHER COVER-UP - Please read this... ****
Date: 1 Oct 92 08:49:55 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.) writes:

>In <1992Sep29.224443.14036@oracle.us.oracle.com> rchilder@us.oracle.com writes:

>  I'm not Mr. McCullough, but I hope you don't mind my interjecting a comment
>or two.

>> mccullou@cae.wisc.edu (Mark McCullough) writes:
>> >a very major fundamental difference: Iraq was the aggressor.  They invaded
>> >Kuwait.  The US intervened to stop this invasion.  For a better comparison,
>> 
>> Save me the party line. Think for yourself.

>  Actually, we intervened because we were concerned about the Kuwaiti and
>Saudi oil, and what SH might do with the revenues from that oil.  We did not
>intervene "just" to reverse the invasion for it's own sake.  I see nothing
>wrong with this.  The US does not have the resources to go out and play world
>policeman all the time.  It must pick and choose those areas where it feels its
>vital interests are threatened. 

Oh great!
Two years ago, the pro-war people were bending over backwards in this group
and it's predescesor alt.desert-shield stressing that the anti-war lot had got
it all wrong, this war was about 'freedom and democracy' and had absolutely
nothing to do with oil. Even George Bush was following that line.

You've got to admire their brass neck!

Looks like all those neo-Red "No war for Oil" liberals had it right all along.


Dave

-- 
Newsgroups: alt.desert-storm
From: HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.)
Subject: Re: **** ANOTHER COVER-UP - Please read this... ****
Organization: University of Houston Administrative Computing
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:28:26 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <1992Sep28.144405.1261@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> bobh@troy.uucp writes:

[lots deleted]
> Then why didn't we nuke them and get it over with?  What a bonus, 100% Iraqi
> casulties and 0% American casulties.  That's what it is about, right?  right?
> 
> -Bob

  Well, the Kuwaiti's would have been a little miffed...


semper fi,

Jammer Jim Miller 
Texas A&M University '89 and '91
********************************************************************************
* Speak for my employers?  They don't even know I exist!		       *
*"Become one with the Student Billing System. *BE* the Student Billing System."*
* "Power finds its way to those who take a stand.  Stand up, Ordinary Man."    *
*      ---Rik Emmet, Gil Moore, Mike Levine: Triumph 		               *
********************************************************************************
From: aj336@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Pat Weber)
Newsgroups: alt.desert-storm
Subject: Re: Mike Royko Column
Date: 1 Oct 92 12:21:08 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


Don't you liberals get it? It doesn't matter how many women & kids,
we killed or how many Iraqis got buried alive. This war was not
OUR doing! It was Saddam's - HE'S the BAD guy! We're the GOOD guys!
War is hell! Let's thank God that HE supported US and not Iraq!


It took a MONTH of round-the clock night time bombing by our air
crews to suppress the danger those Iraqis possed to the civilized
world! We didn't use weapons of mass destruction! Saddam did!


If we didn't stop him, you'd be stranded on the highway with no
gas in your car. We'd see how that'd change your leftist mind!
Xref: sparky alt.desert-storm:1903 alt.conspiracy:10997
From: biow@cs.umd.edu (chris biow)
Newsgroups: alt.desert-storm,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Burying of POWs, not in Combat [was: **** ANOTHER COVER-UP ]
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:13:47 GMT
Followup-To: alt.desert-storm
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742
Followups-to: alt.conspiracy

In article <1992Oct5.144949.18486@ousrvr.oulu.fi> dfo@tko.vtt.fi (Foxvog Douglas) writes:

>Is anyone out there willing to support the alleged activity, the burying
>of Prisoners of War?  Are pro-war people willing to label
>such activity, IF IT OCCURRED, a war crime?  Should such a charge be 
>investigated?  

Yes, Doug, any such activity would be a grievous breach of the 
Law of Armed Combat, punishable by hanging. If you really believe
that a pair of posts forged by the same nut in Georgia is sufficient
basis, you should investigate it, Doug. Report back to alt.conspiracy
when your investigation is complete.
From: Chris.Holt@newcastle.ac.uk (Chris Holt)
Newsgroups: alt.desert-storm
Subject: Re: **** ANOTHER COVER-UP - Please read this... ****
Date: 30 Sep 92 11:24:15 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU

HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.) writes:
> rchilder@us.oracle.com writes:

>> I suspect that we could have waited them out, no ?

>  Indeed.  And when the EXACT SAME hardships began to be felt by the Iraqi
>common people around now or perhaps next year (not to mention the Jordanians
>and the Kuwaitis) and Saddam and his cronies continued to eat roast duck for
>dinner every night, then what?  We are rather back where we started, are we
>not?

This makes some fairly controversial assumptions about what would
have happened if the blockade had been maintained.  Remember, it
is much harder for a politician (SH) to be seen to be negotiating
with an enemy if lives have been lost.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Chris.Holt@newcastle.ac.uk      Computing Lab, U of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Still shone the candlelight on the empty screen, after the power went.
Newsgroups: alt.desert-storm
From: dworden@cwis.unomaha.edu (David Paul Worden)
Subject: Cover up crap
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 13:00:48 GMT

It is not my intention to insult anyone's intelligence.  However, I am 
getting sick and tired of reading the same garbage about the alleged
"cover up."   Whether it happened as stated or not, the fact remains that
it has now been written into the history books and there is nothing that
anyone can do about it.  It is my opinion that the original author(s) of the
post were only trying to get a reaction.  I feel that the article was and 
should never have gotten the merit it did.  How can someone claim something
is 100% absolutely and positively correct just by talking to a small number
of people.  

Let's all wake up now and drop this subject.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David P. Worden                                        dworden@cwis.unomaha.edu

ALWAYS A MAN AHEAD OF HIS TIME.  At his Highland Park, Michigan auto plant, 
Xref: sparky alt.out-of-body:146 alt.oobe:307
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: MORE EXPERIENCE
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:59:58 GMT

In article <1992Oct05.115126.44708@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk>, ucsatsd@ucl.ac.uk (-8  Big Bad Bob (B3)  8-) writes in part:
|> It doesn't really matter very much, as far as I'm concerned. The crux is that
|> I have proven to personal satisfaction that it is possible to use OOBEs to
|> view areas of the planet that were previously unknown, in real-time. 

Now THAT is something I'd like to see demonstrated to my own satisfaction.
Any possiblility of a little demonstration?

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.oobe
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: MORE EXPERIENCE
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:10:45 GMT

In article <1992Oct01.104950.39732@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk>, ucsatsd@ucl.ac.uk (-8  Big Bad Bob (B3)  8-) writes in part:
|> Anyway, it has no bearing on the real crux of my post, which was that the
|> second body is electromagnetic, and that I have never found electricity to
|> be problematic during OOBE, despite reasonable possibility of interference.

Huh?  How can the second body possibly be electromagnetic?  No test has
EVER detected such a second body on ANY electromagnetic frequency.  
Whatever the second body might be, it has been DECISIVELY shown NOT
to be elctromagnetic.  Just what are you basing this claim on?

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Astral Hands and separation tricks.
From: S952092@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 21:42:37 GMT
Organization: UM ST. LOUIS

       Hi All!
This morning I had a very interesting experience:
       I woke up, astrally, then began to do some astral tricks, first
       I separated my both hands from physical, I was interested how would
    it feel like if I put them together. My astral hands looked like a
    transperend outline of physical hands. When I my hands touched each other
   they felt like real touch in physical.
        Some tip for separating:  If you want to float up to the cieling
  try to separate you head first, the rest would be easier. If it does not
  work -- try to turn yourself to the side. When I did it -- I began
   to gently falling down on the floor (it took about 5 seconds for my second
   body to touch the floor).
 
   P.S. Those tips should be working in self (any) induced trance achieved
    by reducing consciouness(getting deeply relaxed) in the parts of your body.
 
      GOOD LUCK!
                OOBE Newbies -- email me if you need any help in OOBE.
 
 
                   "Share The Light"
 
                                                Jack.
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.oobe
From: KHATCH@130.187.170.178 (kh)
Subject: Re: Flight of Fancy?
Organization: Terra Incognita
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:54:56 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

In <1a0o4lINN3l6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cf549@cleveland.Freenet.Edu writes:

> 	A few years later, I heard about out-of body-experiences for the first
> time. Now I know what they are, I want to try to induce it, but I can't. I get
> this feeling of intense vibration that scares the hell out of me. I tell myself
> not to fear it, I know it is coming, but I can not ride it out.  Can anyone get
> me past that stage. Does anyone else know what I mean by "vibration"?
> 

    There has been quite a bit of talk here about sleep paralysis and
vibrations.  There are a number of people who have described the vibrations
that you mention.  I have read that about 30% of us experience this from time
to time.  I just wanted to mention that my vibration experiences (they occur
two or three times per month) were once horrifying but since I've learned to
use them to induce OBEs they are more than welcome and now I actually consider
it a pleasant experience.  The nature of the phenomenon is the same but my
perspective has changed. 

Xref: sparky alt.out-of-body:123 alt.oobe:293
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.oobe
Subject: Re: MORE EXPERIENCE
From: S952092@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 21:48:20 GMT
Organization: UM ST. LOUIS

In article <1992Sep29.194915.2309@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes:
 
>
>In article <16871B6BF.S952092@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU>, S952092@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU writes in part:
>|> In article <1992Sep28.194359.14124@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
>|> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes:
>|>
>|> >
>|> >In article <1992Sep20.204054.1@husky1.stmarys.ca>, gen5006@husky1.stmarys.ca (Bill McKinnon) writes in aprt:
>|> >|> *Pessimist Mode On*
>|> >|>
>|> >|> First, and most obvious to most who've done obe's, stay away from sources of
>|> >|> electricity.  They do nasty things to you.
>|> >
>|>
>|> Robert McGrath asked:
>|> >Huh?  Just what sort of nasty things do you claim might happen?
>|> >How can electricity have any effect at all on you when you are OBE'ing?
>|>
>|>    Have ever thought of material of the second body? If you look at
>|>   cases of haunted houses-a lot of static ELECTRICITY was detected.Well,
>|>   I can haunt a house myself :), but it is not fun anymore.
>|> Anyway electric fieldsshould have some affect on your second body.
>|>
>|> Jack.
>
>I HAVE thought of the second body, but I was pretty sure that it is NOT
>material OR electrical.  Assuming the second body actually exists
>outside your own head (which has not been demonstrated) an electric
>field should NOT have any effect.  How could it?  If the second body
>is affected by electricity, then it would be effected by the electrical
>properties of all ordinary matter, and would interact with them.
>
>As to static ELECTRICITY in hounted houses, I simply note that there
>is a lot of static electricity at non-haunted houses.  So what?
>
>IMHO, this idea of yours is pure fantasy--OBE's have nothing to do
>with electricity.
>
>By the way, if you can haunt a house in a way that I can detect, I'd sure
>like to see (or whatever) it.
 
         I need you home address. I am sure you will detect it :)
 
               Jack.
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: sbiles@nmsu.edu (Susannah E Biles)
Subject: I volunteer!
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
Distribution: alt.out-of-body
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 01:38:47 GMT

Greetings all...
I mailed Greg, and volunteerd to be 'secretary' if we wish to follow
the plan he introduced sometime last week.
If we follow the suggestion of approaching one topic or one aspect of
a topic at a time, it would be very easy for me to keep 'minutes' and
create a log and/or a FAQ list (Frequently Asked Questions).
I am currently student teaching and working 1/2 time at a lab, so my
time is limited..but I am willing to check in and record on an almost
daily basis if you all will have me :->

I suggested that perhaps we begin with introductions...I think it
would be pretty neat if all of us who are consistently contributing to
the group here to post a letter of introduction, per se, to just say
who you are, what you do, your exp. with OOBE's or your interests in
this group etc....I would  like to know you all better to kind of put
a 'face' to your names :->

Please respond via posting so we all can discuss if we want to
approach the group in this manner. Any further suggestions would be
greatly appreciated!

Thanks folx!

(btw....I myself have not been able to have an OOBE as of
yet...perhaps spending my free time writing about everyone eleses will
induce one!)

Ohh.....IMHO means In My Humble Opinion...

Susannah
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: RE: Spiritual Guides and more
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:53:28 GMT

In article <1as9u5INNboa@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, oldham@ces.cwru.edu (Daniel Oldham) writes in part:
|> >You may be right.  Just how do you measure "pyramid power"?
|> 
|> Pyramid power can not be measured with normal devices but the effect on an
|> object can be detected. You take a reading before, apply the energy, and then
|> read the result and compare it to the first reading.
"take a reading" of what?  "apply" what "energy"?  "compare" what to what?
This doesn't help me at all.

|> >|> Ever person has a spiritual guide called your Overself. You may call upon your
|> >|> Overself to aid in your development. There are also guides among us to help
|> >|> answer questions in a more direct manner.
|> >Oh yes?  And how do you know this?
|> 
|> By looking at the answers to the questions.
What answers to what questions?  What am I supposed to look at?  This doesn't
help me at all.

|> You should not! You should continue with questions but you need to take some
|> time out to relax. Just for once close your eyes and look inside your head.
I wonder where you think I got my questions from?  I relaxed, looked
inside my head, and saw that what you said was a bunch of incomprehensible
nonsense.  This being an unsatisfactory result, I asked you to give
me some help.  If you have nothing better than this to offer then I will
have to go with what I see inside my head....

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: mayor@ic17.umeeng (Cam "You didn't see me!" Mayor)
Subject: (Re: MORE EXPERIENCE)->Burden of Proof
Reply-To: mayor@ic17.umeeng
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 09:45:35 GMT

In article 29302@m.cs.uiuc.edu, mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes:
>In article <1992Oct01.104950.39732@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk>, ucsatsd@ucl.ac.uk (-8  Big Bad Bob (B3)  8-) writes in part:
>|> Anyway, it has no bearing on the real crux of my post, which was that the
>|> second body is electromagnetic, and that I have never found electricity to
>|> be problematic during OOBE, despite reasonable possibility of interference.
>
>Huh?  How can the second body possibly be electromagnetic?  No test has
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  To me, this question is the first indicator of a Closed Mind.

>EVER detected such a second body on ANY electromagnetic frequency.
>Whatever the second body might be, it has been DECISIVELY shown NOT
>to be elctromagnetic.  Just what are you basing this claim on?

  Are you ABSOLUTELY sure of this.  I will tend to agree that the second
body is PROBABLY not electromagnetic in nature.  I know of NO works where
it has "been DECISIVELY shown NOT to be electromagnetic."  That is a pretty
large spectrum, and detecting higher and higher frequencies gets more and
more expensive for limited grant money.  Alternately, what if the most
common second body "frequency" is close, or equal, to that of a more 
observable natural noise source.  Sublime patterns would be lost in the
background.
  I, myself, do not feel that the second body is electromagnetic in nature, 
yet I DO believe that it is linked to electromagnetics (ie. similar properties
or analogues).  In my EXPERIENCE, I have found definite similarities with
the second body and electricity.  But just as i am not convinced that
the s.b. is electromagnetic in nature, i am always ready to find out that i
am wrong.

>-- 
>  Robert E. McGrath
>  Urbana Illinois
>  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu


But i digress.  You have seemed to DEMAND proof from all those that graciously
share their experiences and belief with us, yet you have not cited any of your
alleged sources.  So, in the interest of open minds and free interpretation,
Put Up or Shut Up!

Sincerely,
cam mayor

ps.  In case you were wondering about *my* opinions, I am an electrical 
     engineer.  Currently, I am doing a master's degree in applied 
     electromagnetics.
From: S952092@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: How?
Date: 27 Sep 92 20:45:21 GMT
Organization: UM ST. LOUIS

In article <1992Sep16.162445.18500@walter.bellcore.com>
pgoudas@faline.bellcore.com writes:
 
>
>        I've been reading this group for a day or two and I am curious.
>How does one achieve an out of body experience?
>
>
      Try concentration exercises first.  Look at your reflection in the
 large mirror for ten minutes, concentrate at the point on your forehead.
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.oobe
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: MORE EXPERIENCE
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:40:12 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.145429.10762@javelin.sim.es.com>, KHATCH@130.187.170.178 (kh) writes in part:
|> 
|>   I've noticed that flying too close to power lines in OBEs can be very 
|> unpleasant.  Since I'm from the camp that says that OBEs are purely mental 
|> (not supernatural) I have attributed this effect to the fact that I have been 
|> so heavily warned about powerlines from the time I was old enough to fly a 
|> kite. Do we fly our kites near power lines? No, they're DANGEROUS! Do we fly 
|> our (second) body near powerlines?

This is plausible, although it should be true of lots of other things that
you "know" are dangerous.  And under this hypothesis, the discomfort
obviously it has nothing to do with electricity, per se.

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: fsrsg@acad3.alaska.edu (Richard S. Guse)
Subject: Re: MORE EXPERIENCE
Organization: Psi INc.
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 22:04:38 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.211045.29302@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes:
> In article <1992Oct01.104950.39732@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk>, ucsatsd@ucl.ac.uk (-8  Big Bad Bob (B3)  8-) writes in part:
> |> Anyway, it has no bearing on the real crux of my post, which was that the
> |> second body is electromagnetic, and that I have never found electricity to
> |> be problematic during OOBE, despite reasonable possibility of interference.
> 
> Huh?  How can the second body possibly be electromagnetic?  No test has
> EVER detected such a second body on ANY electromagnetic frequency.  
> Whatever the second body might be, it has been DECISIVELY shown NOT
> to be elctromagnetic.  Just what are you basing this claim on?
> 
on the contrary.  In many books I've read, including Monroe, they have
mentioned an affinity of the astral body to power lines.  However, I believe
there is more here than meets the eye...in more ways than one!

-r
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body