HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: burgoyne@access.digex.com (J. Robert Burgoyne)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Clean time -- A Different Perspective
Date: 12 Jan 1993 14:29:41 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

I'm not fixated on clean time, but I don't dismiss it as easily as some of
the other folks. I've now got 10+ years, and the issues I look at are
commitment to the program, service to others, and ability to help new
people (or people in need).

My commitment to staying sober is paramount, but my commitment to attending
meetings is much less, due to a wife and small son. However, I am thankful
that others are able to make a greater time commitment to attending meetings,
because at this point in my life it's not possible for me.

As for service to others, I've had less than 5 people ever ask me to 
perform service (other than leading meetings) in the entire time I've been 
in AA. My major service is driving a 70 year old former colleague on a 
regular basis to a Wednesday meeting. No question about it, service brings
rewards far in excess of what it costs you, and I will continue to do
what little is asked of me with pride. But at this point in life, I simply
don't have the opportunity to do more.

As for ability to help people in need, I've got more training in speech
than most people, and when asked to speak I usually do a fair amount of
mental preparation beforehand. Also, since I'm involved professionally in
advertising/marketing, I have some skill at influencing people and knowing
what they want to hear. So, given those precursors, I humbly submit that
when I speak at a meeting, I often have several people come up to me later
and tell me that they liked/learned/benefitted from what I said.

This didn't begin to happen until the last several years. 

So my God given ability to speak publicly is my greatest asset I can 
provide to AA. And indeed, I'm a much better speaker with 10+ years than
I was at 5 yrs, 2 yrs, or 1 year. But, I enjoy listening to people with all 
different levels of sobriety. However, due to the nature of the problems
this stage of life presents me with, I find myself needing to speak with
gentlemen who have 20+ years of sobriety, and who are generally in their
50s, 60s, or 70s. That's just me.

Time in the program just kinda creeps up on you. I never planned on having
10 years, I just kept coming back and the time accrued.


J. Robert Burgoyne		  Maryland FYI		  Laurel, Maryland
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  301-317-0726 24 Hours	   burgoyne@access.digex.com	301-317-0587 FAX
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		     Have a Happy and Prosperous New Year! 

Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: dhawk@netcom.com (David Hawkins)
Subject: Step One
Keywords: powerless
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 01:23:59 GMT

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol [substance/behavior] --
that our lives had become unmanageable.

Actually I like being powerless at times.  And today's one of those
days ...

later, david
--
David Hawkins    dhawk@netcom.com
Unfortunately, nothing in life is nothing but; it always something
more.  -- William Barrett
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: an3203@anon.penet.fi (Andrew)
Subject: Re: My sobriety date
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.recovery
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 21:46:07 GMT

Robert Singers wrote:
> Sure.  I agree with you.  The reason I posted the question was that 
> after a while I found the clean time accountancy became a bit of a trap.  

And it is a trap.

> I recently decided to see if I could drink without becoming addicted 
> again.  I felt I had got my shit together sufficently to not need 
> alcohol as a crutch.  Well I drank.  I decided it wasn't such a big deal 
> after all.  I didn't fall of the wagon.  I simply decided that I liked 
> not drinking.  It's more fun, and it doesn't poison my body (NB: 
> drinking soft drinks all night can give you a bigger hang over than 
> alcohol - my tip is orange juice and tonic water).
> 
> Oh well.  If you decide I'm a heritic you can flame me.  But I just 
> thought I'd share my experience.

Says right in the Big Book that if we aren't sure about our condition,
that we should step right over to the nearest bar and try some
controlled drinking.  Try it more than once.  Says that's the way we
can diagnose ourselves.  Nothing wrong with that.

I can tell you that your reason for not continuing to drink was
something that didn't work for me.  I didn't stop drinking because
I didn't like the stuff.  Cause I do.  I love the stuff.  My mouth
still waters when I even hear someone mention "rum & coke."
I quit the stuff because it was killing me.

Andrew
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Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: ssalter@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (-=[SLS]=-)
Subject: Re: Layoffs
Organization: OFSA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 13:30:07 GMT

amigan@cup.portal.com (Mike - Medwid)
>My company announced they will be laying off 500 of our 5500 people
>in the next couple of months.  I don't feel panicked about this.  
>Not sure just what I feel about it.  Actually I have a good sense
>that my HP will take care of things however it turns out with this
>company.  Turning it over..


that's all you can do. The company I work for has laid off a
significant number of people over the last couple years...we are at an
all time low. 56 people were just laid off from the factory and the
latest rumor has about 40 going out of the office. We are at an
alltime low.

People ask me why I stay cheerful and crazy (as is my wont). Ijust
tell them that if I get laid off I will find something else to do. I
know I can make as much money on my own as for the company. The
benefits will be a great loss but with the severance pay I can still
pay bills long enough for me to grab a few consulting jobs and bring
in some money. I dunno..I just don't worry about things like this. I
don't worry about death or taxes or snowstorms...anything out of my
control..which means I just don't worry. :)
From: pierre@Autodesk.COM (Pierre Malraison)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Addictive Organizations
Date: 12 Jan 93 17:50:23 GMT
Organization: Autodesk Inc., Sausalito CA, USA

Anyone besides me read
"The Addicitve Organization" by Wilson-Schef and Fassel?
I just finished it and REALLY liked it.
Now all we need is a new O-A
Organizations Anonymous

Hi, I'm a fortune 500 company and i am powerless
over myself...

But SERIOUSLY, it's a good book to understand how and
why work may/can make you crazy. 


-- 
Pierre Malraison
U.S. Snail: Autodesk ,Inc. 2320 Marinship Way,Sausalito CA 94965
e-mail:         pierre@autodesk.com
Opinions expressed above purely personal.
From: amigan@cup.portal.com (Mike - Medwid)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Layoffs
Date: Thu,  7 Jan 93 22:10:17 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

My company announced they will be laying off 500 of our 5500 people
in the next couple of months.  I don't feel panicked about this.  
Not sure just what I feel about it.  Actually I have a good sense
that my HP will take care of things however it turns out with this
company.  Turning it over..
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com ()
Subject: Meetings and Words
Originator: suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com
Reply-To: suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com ()
Organization: TRW Space & Defense
Distribution: alt
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 23:11:35 GMT


=====Begin post for Adria=====
     I've been in far too many meetings where I have heard the
following line from too many people:
     "I've heard a lot of people say that they went out
      because they stopped going to meetings, but I've
      never heard anyone say that they got drunk because
      they kept going to meetings"

     I'm not quite sure what these people are talking about,
because I've seen ppl relapse who have stopped going to
meetings, and I have seen ppl relapse who didn't stop going
to meetings.  I don't know what it is that may trigger any
one of us, myself included, to relapsing or not relapsing
; nor is it my place to say that one particular program of
recovery is better for anyone else than another.
     I used to get uptight during the holiday season because
in my mind the holidays were to get drunk.  It was the thing
to do.  I started going to program functions (usually dances)
during the new year time, and a dinner/dance/speaker meeting
during turkey-time.
     I needed the time off work so the holidays are wonderful
times of rest for me now.  MST3k has a bunch of horrible
sci-fi movies on during turkey-time.  There is a Twilight
Zone 24 hr marathon during the new year time; and I do like
my horror and science fiction!  The holidays are not times
to drink for me anymore -- they are times to rest from
work and do stuff around my house, and watch stuff on TV
that I never normally get a chance to, and do my beloved
jigsaw puzzles.
     As long as I don't let the chaos of thoughts that
used to take over my brain take over my brain, I'm okay.
It's a lovely vacation from work and I'm glad it's here.
But I won't drive during the holiday season after dark,
nor will I lend my car to my significant other after dark.
Too many careless amatuer drunks out there.
=====End post for Adria=======
-- 
Maurice Suhre
suhre@trwrb.dsd.trw.com
Newsgroups: la.general
From: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Subject: Re: Hiking fees for L.A. County trails?
Reply-To: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Organization: Altruistic Intentions, Hollywood CA
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 07:02:16 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.033513.28849@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> fod@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Frank O'Donnell) writes:
>A friend tells me that, as of the first of the year,
>L.A. County is charging a $23 annual fee per person
>for a permit to hike on county trails.  Supposedly there
>is a fine in the $40-$50 range if one is caught on trails
>without a permit.
>

Oh my god.  I am going to go to bed now and sleep on this, but my
first reaction is, how utterly preposterous.  If the money is used to
maintain the trails, then maybe, if it were enforceable--and it is
not--it would be worthwhile.  Who will enforce it?  Just what is a
"county trail"?  And how does LA County propose to inform hikers that
this fee is demanded--erect large signs at every trailhead (which
would cost more than the program brings in)?

>Does anyone know anything about this?  I'm trying to 
>figure out if anywhere we usually hike is covered --
>usually we're in Angeles National Forest, though
>occasionally get over to Griffith Park.

I run in Griffith Park every morning.  I thought it was a city park?

You see how ridiculous it will be?  One will have to inquire as to the
jurisdiction of the trails one hikes, and then perhaps stop at the
border of city/county land, if one hasn't paid the fee.

I consider myself a fairly open-minded person, but if this rumor is
true, then I have just lost any regard I had left for the local
government.  I will demonstrate against it.

Are there other jurisdictions in the US that charge fees for day
hiking on publicly-owned land?  Overnight permits, yes, and the odd
parking fee (rte 39 above Azusa)...
-- 
Rob Lingelbach KB6CUN | 2660 Hollyridge Dr LA CA 90068 213 464 6266 (voice) 
rob@xyzoom.info.com   | "I care not much for a man's religion whose dog or 
robl@netcom.com       |  cat are not the better for it."  --Abraham Lincoln
Newsgroups: la.general
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Subject: Re: Motor Oil!
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.
Distribution: la
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 22:18:23 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.203623.21312@ttinews.tti.com> hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
>In article <1hra7pINNf04@gizmo.usc.edu> alan@gizmo.usc.edu (Alan Petersen) writes:
>}Does anyone know where one can deposit used motor
>}oil ...
>
>}I'm looking for something on the west side, 
>}either SM or WLA/Westwood.
>
>Sears Automotive Center in Santa Monica used to take mine.  About the only
>thing they were good for ...

The big recycling center in Sanata Monica takes oil.  It's somewhere
near 26th and Olympic.

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@tti.com  (that's MISTER reid@tti.com to you!)
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
Newsgroups: la.general
From: rob@xyzoom.info.com.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Subject: Re: vet recommendation needed in Pasadena/Duarte area
Reply-To: rob@xyzoom.info.com.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Organization: Altruistic Intentions, Hollywood, CA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 21:44:39 GMT

In article <1icqunINNmn3@usenet.pa.dec.com> tsoi@lint.tus.dec.com (Stella M. Tsoi) writes:
>
>Can anyone recommend a caring, responsible vet in the Pasadena/Arcadia/Monrovia/Duarte area?  Preferably one that specializes or cares
>for cats a great deal.  I've tried vets from 2 animal hospitals so far, and
>found them lacking.
>
>Also, can anyone recommend a pet sitting service in that area?

I just spoke to my friend Janet whose father was a vet for many years
in Pasadena before retiring last year, and she said Dr. Diegnan is
Pasadena's best feline veterinarian.  He is at 818 795 5916, 1986 E.
Foothill.  

--Rob




-- 
Rob Lingelbach KB6CUN | 2660 Hollyridge Dr LA CA 90068 213 464 6266 (voice) 
rob@xyzoom.info.com   | "I care not much for a man's religion whose dog or 
robl@netcom.com       |  cat are not the better for it."  --Abraham Lincoln
Newsgroups: la.general
From: alan@elroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Alan S. Mazer)
Subject: Re: Hiking fees for L.A. County trails?
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:12:12 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.033513.28849@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> fod@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Frank O'Donnell) writes:
>A friend tells me that, as of the first of the year,
>L.A. County is charging a $23 annual fee per person
>for a permit to hike on county trails.  Supposedly there
>is a fine in the $40-$50 range if one is caught on trails
>without a permit.
>
>Does anyone know anything about this?  I'm trying to 
>figure out if anywhere we usually hike is covered --
>usually we're in Angeles National Forest, though
>occasionally get over to Griffith Park.

Yikes.  Pretty soon we're gonna get charged for air to breathe.

I just called the Forest Service who referred me to Parks and Recreation.
Parks and Recreation says the policy is more or less right as you have it,
but that it only includes County Parks.  It specifically does not include any
national (or I presume state) land.  So if Griffith Park is a "County Park"
rather than just a park in the county, you are liable.  Angeles NF is still
okay.
-- 
 
-- Alan                        # Mountain Dew and doughnuts...
   ..!ames!elroy!alan          # because breakfast is the most important meal
   alan@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov     # of the day.
Xref: sparky la.general:1132 oc.general:139
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: la.general,oc.general
Subject: Re: I hate "Rapid" Transit District (RTD)
Followup-To: la.general,oc.general
Date: 6 Jan 93 07:25:59
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Distribution: ca
	<1993Jan6.072337.9054@netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: soldan.aero.org
In-reply-to: johnwu@netcom.com's message of Wed, 6 Jan 1993 07:23:37 GMT

On Wed, 6 Jan 1993 07:23:37 GMT, johnwu@netcom.com (John M. Wu) said:
> Instead of stretching freeways, let's remove most of the gap between the
> first lane and the center divider.  Japanese freeways don't even have
> shoulder lanes but have gaps every 1/4 km for broken down vehicles.
> Boom!  Instant carpool(bus) lane.

In most freeways, the gap has already been removed, and the lanes reduced the
minimum width. Extra lanes are *still* needed. Also, experience has shown
(consider the first diamond lane on the I-10, for those that remember it) that
diamond lanes are not successful when you obtain them by removing existing
lanes and not separating them suitably from the normal traffic lanes (that is,
something wider than a single line of paint -- at least a foot of space
between double yellow lines is more effective).

Daniel
--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
		    "And as they say, the rest is compost"
Newsgroups: la.general
From: dhosek@hmcvax.claremont.edu
Subject: Room for rent in Claremont
Organization: Quixote Digital Typography
Date: 4 Jan 93 21:32:43 PST

Room for rent in Claremont home. Walk to Claremont colleges, bike
to University of LaVerne, short drive to Cal Poly Pomona. Nice
neighborhood.

Private room, share bath, full house privileges. $350 includes
utilities, not phone. For more information contact Don Hosek at
909-625-0147 (eves) or 909-621-1291 (day)

-dh
Xref: sparky la.general:1117 oc.general:135 ba.transportation:3020
From: bq834@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark  Panitz)
Newsgroups: la.general,ba.transportation
Subject: Re: I hate "Rapid" Transit District (RTD)
Date: 13 Jan 93 05:52:53 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


where do you get your info about the Green line?  last I heard it was
*suppose* to meet a people mover system at lot c. and not go anywhere
Manhattan Beach. also I use the public transit here in LA a  lot, and
one thing I have learned is that you must have patince (and plently of time
to allow you to get to places on time.
v
as you might know RTD and LACTC are mergring into LACMTA in March.
-- 
send all replies/email to my 'main' account 
markp@pro-palmtree.socal.com
thanks a lot! and have a nice day !
Newsgroups: la.general
From: ostubble@agsm.ucla.edu (Otha Stubblefield III)
Subject: Correction:  re. BofA closure in Westwood Village
Summary: Oops
Date: 7 Jan 93 09:12:49 PST


I must apologize for a previous posting concerning the repercussions of
the closure of BofA branch #99 at 1101 Westwood Blvd.  I spoke to someone
from BofA customer service (AGAIN!) and this time, they told me that the
accounts would be transferred as is and NOT CHANGED.  No new checks or
VERSATEL cards will be issued.  The folks that have accounts at the
Security Pacific (930 Westwood) will have their account information 
changed, and new checks and cards issued.  Sorry for the confusion,
but I was given mis-information.


Xref: sparky la.general:1115 rec.music.makers:11701
From: wpf@cco.caltech.edu (William P. Fornaciari)
Newsgroups: la.general,rec.music.makers
Subject: Re: Bands for parties
Date: 5 Jan 1993 17:19:59 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: la
NNTP-Posting-Host: alumni.caltech.edu

other ways to find bands,

consult the people who cater the party or who provide the4 space.  they probably
hear  a lot of local bands and can judge who does a good party..
From: nedelman@pasadena-dc.bofa.com
Newsgroups: la.general
Subject: Re: Warning to UCLA folks that bank at BofA in Westwood Village
Date: 6 Jan 93 08:45:02 PDT
Organization: Bank America Systems Engineering, Pasadena, CA

In article <ostubble.726280596@uclagsm>, ostubble@agsm.ucla.edu (Otha Stubblefield III) writes:
> 
> This is primarily to UCLA employees with SUREPAY, but may be of interest
> to people who have electronic transfer from checking accounts.
> 
> Bank of America is closing the branch at 1101 Westwood Blvd (@ Kinross)
> -- you should have or will receive a notice in the mail -- in late March or
> early April and is transferring those accounts to the Security Pacific 
> at Le Conte.  A customer service rep said that those accounts will be 
> given NEW ACCOUNT NUMBERS.  You may go through hell to get paid if your
> check is transmitted to a non-existant account.  
> 
> While SUREPAY advises that you change your account information when you
> know it, they advised that while it takes 2-3 days to cancel it, it takes
> 30-40 days to start the service, so you should expect at least one
> paper check.  Definitely allow yourself plenty of time before the
> April paydays to change your SUREPAY.
> 

Any transaction against your old account number (like a check trying to clear,
electronic payments, or electronic deposits) will automatically be applied to
the new account.  In this case, if an attempt is made to deposit money to the
old account, it will show up in the new account automatically.  Your account
rep. SHOULD have mentioned this to you also.

-- 
Dean (The Shadow)
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Dean I. Nedelman                            nedelman@pasadena-dc.bofa.com |
| Advisory Systems Engineer                    nedelman@spacm1.spac.spc.com |
| Bank America System Engineering   nedelman%spacm1.uucp@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov |
| Pasadena, CA  91101           {...,decwrl,ames,usc}!elroy!spacm1!nedelman |
+------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
| Systems programmers are the high   |      *** PGP Public Key ***          |
| priests of a low cult.             |      Available upon request          |
+------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
  ************** I DO NOT SPEAK FOR MY EMPLOYEER ***************************

Newsgroups: la.general
From: elliottm@csulb.edu (Mike Elliott)
Subject: Getting a January 31, 1933 newspaper
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
Distribution: us
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 06:00:58 GMT

I need to get a copy of a January 31, 1933 newspaper, (preferably from Los
Angeles, but not necessary) for my Father-in-law's 60th birthday.  I heard
a bookstore in Burbank has old newspapers, but I don't have the name.  Any
ideas? 
-- 
======================================================================
Mike Elliott                                        elliottm@csulb.edu
======================================================================
From: nickn@midiline.la.ca.us (nick nelson)
Newsgroups: la.general
Subject: Re: Bands for parties
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 93 19:46:22 PST
Organization: MIDILine BBS - Altadena, CA - (818) 797-3285

fod@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Frank O'Donnell) writes:

> Does anyone know of any good places to check in greater
> Los Angeles for listings of bands of various sorts to
> play private parties?
> 
You might try BAM magazine, distributed free at many record
stores.  They seem to specialize in big-hair, pseudo metal
wanna-bes, but they do have a section where bands advertise
their availability (the classifieds in the back).


-----
nickn@midiline.la.ca.us (nick nelson) 
MIDILine BBS (midiline.la.ca.us) - Altadena CA - (818)797-3285
Newsgroups: la.general