Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems

An exchange involving Mr. N.

>FT
>> I'd suggest Philip to not suggest.  Please let this guy write what he thinks.

>OK, I hereby permit this guy to write whatever trash he thinks.

Ah, as if one non-entity need acquire the permission of another to
shit on the ground.

>FT
>> Poetry like every other form of art does not deserve to be suggested by others.

>OK, I also permit you to believe in whatever nonsense you you choose.

Please sir, grant it me so's I can sleep at night.


Yet another exchange:

>ramakris@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Balaji Ramakrishnan) writes:


>> Neither music from 106.7 Nor the noise from the fan Can stop the
>> thought I just expressed Every thought is unique That`s lifes great
>> mystique

>                                       --- Balaji
>
>How unique, and how banal. This is not a contradiction.
>Everything is unique; most things are banal. What I like
>about this poem, though, is the Freudian slip in the last
>line. 'Mystique', contrary to what you seem to think,
>does not mean 'mystery'; but the word describes the poem
>itself very accurately.

Of course, somehow our clever critic seems to have missed
that fact that the misuse of a word through ignorance of
its definition is not typically defined as a Fruedian slip.
Look it up Phil, a Fruedian slip is something else.  I would
not point this out were it not for the rigorous and sloppy
hypocrisy of your comment.

>Why is all poetry _about_ the uniqueness of anything -
>about every moment being unlike any other; about any new 
>home being something different; about beauties inimitable,
>et cetera - always such unpardonable trash? 

A reasonable question punctuated with typical self-righteousness.

>I'd suggest that you flush your thoughts, and stick to ideas.

I have some suggestions for you.  They will follow soon.

Another exchange:

>WP
>>     Let's see how far I can push this metaphor : I write poetry for
>> the same reason that I learned how to speak.  I listen to/read
>> poetry for the same reason that I learned how to understand the
>> spoken words of others.
>>   -- bill

>Arrrrghhh! Aren't you people sick of meaningless, 
>moth-eaten metaphors?

Yes, and we also are rather tired of meaningless, moth-eaten criticisms.  
You have established exactly zero credibility in this
group, and yet you come in with Joe Green's 
hostility, but without the humor and flair that
made him fun, interesting, and instructive (at least to me.)

> Universal human functions have 
>no inherent aesthetic value.

Oh really?  Perhaps you would deign to stop ragging on
neophyte poets long enough to explain why.  Of course, 
I doubt that you will or can.

> Self-aggrandizing
>graphomania undoubtedly results from a tender,
>romantic attitude towards oneself.

Yes, I suppose it does.  So what?

You seem to think that all these people are guilty of
some sort of crime and that you are the sanctioned
judge.  The problem is that you have given no one 
any reason whatsoever to care about your opinion.
Joe was well-hated in this group, but at least
he gave a FEW of us a reason to care what his opinion
was.  Part of this process involved posting his poetry.  HINT HINT.

Also, you seem to have this idea that your opinion means
something.  Phil, saying that you are equal to zero 
would be granting you an identity that you do not deserve.
You, me, and everyone here are less than nothing.
We are the pieces of filth churned out by the mechanism
of thousands of years of civilization.  We are robbed
of even the dignity of being one in five billion.  We
are less than that.  You can claw your way to the top
of RAP by insulting everyone here, PERHAPS, and you will
still be far below the level you would have to achieve
to even be considered NOTHING.

And you have yet to do anything whatsoever to convince
even an objective observer that you are even as good
as the worst poet here.  Insulting is easy, and your
art pales compared to those who are really good at it.

Your chest thumping would lead one to suspect that
you know the secret for rising above the less-than-nothingness
that we are all caught within.  Perhaps you would
be so kind as to write it down on a piece of toilet paper.
That way, I can read it and then wipe my ass, thus assuring
that I get at least one good use from your efforts.

What I suggest that you do is make an effort to get a
grasp on the REALITY of your own relative importance,
and then perhaps come in and change people's work 
by superior example.  And if you insist in insulting
to no apparently productive purpose, at least be amusing
when you do it rather than so tediously pious.  Your
piety has been, thus far, entirely mundane.

I still suspect from what I have seen that you are
quite intelligent and discerning.  But the mistake 
you make is in assuming that you can demonstrate this
by excoriating people who are marginally talented (or
not talented at all) at poetry.  Many of the posters
here probably are engaged in a rather sad little fantasy,
an attempt to add meaning to existence by interacting with
others through poetry (often bad poetry), but exactly what
purpose of yours is served by simply savaging their efforts?
It is quite safe to say that many of us will never amount to
much of anything as poets or writers or artists or whatever,
but the same is very likely true of you for all we know.

I am not even suggesting you stop criticizing.  If some
purpose of yours IS served by this public flogging, you
are welcome to it, but as I told Joe, you are unlikely to
teach people about good peotry by flogging them although you
are more than welcome to try, but it is likely futile to
hope that you will gain respect for your opinions through 
this method.  Of course one as great as yourself certainly
has no interest in the respect of the herd.  An eagle 
flying about his home on the edge of the abyss does not
hear the cries of the herd, right?  So one is forced to
wonder why you choose to flap your wings about our heads
to make us bleat rather than exploring the heights and
depths where your interaction would suggest that you belong.
(Yes I am alluding to Nietzsche.  I only point this out to
avoid being accused of stealing the rhetoric.)

I myself will quite possibly grow to like you if you really
are a man of ideas.  I can see through the hostility,
but, being a bit of a fool, I will slap you around 
regardless of how much better you are than I at prose
or poetry, because I do not bow, and one can grow
and improve by slapping one's betters.  Assuming you
are my better, I will grow from the experience of
opposing you.

doug
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems