From: kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy)
Subject: Re: pro-choice == pro-(womens' only) choice?
Organization: Who, me???
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 17:53:58 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.194013.30957@watson.ibm.com> margoli@watson.ibm.com writes:
>In  <1992Apr16.063554.10977@rotag.mi.org>  kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy) writes:
>> In article <1992Apr14.234409.14637@watson.ibm.com> margoli@watson.ibm.com writes
>> >In  <1992Apr13.234221.17114@cfctech.cfc.com>  kevin@cfctech.cfc.com (Kevin Darc
>> >> In article <1992Apr13.072108.10596@watson.ibm.com> margoli@watson.IBM.com wri
>> >> >In  <1992Apr11.160950.8203@rotag.mi.org>  kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy) w
>> >> >> In article <1992Apr06.151018.19614@sdd.hp.com> regard@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com (A
>> [... dictionary games...]
>
>Yes, I'd love to have an OED at home.  However, you're the one that asked
>me to look it up.  If you didn't like the above, how about:
>aspect n 1 C lit appearance, esp. an
>   expression of the face: We became afraid
>   of the angry aspect of the man 2 C a
                                         ^
>   particular side of a many-sided state of
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   affairs, idea, plan, etc.: You have only
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   considered one aspect of the difficulty,
>   but there are many 3 C9 the direction in
>   which a window, room, front of a building,
>   etc., faces: The house has a south-facing
>   aspect -see VIEW (USAGE) 4 C the
>   position of the stars in regard to each
>   other, seen by some as influencing the
>   affairs of man 5 U; C the form a verb
>   takes to mark the difference in time, as
>   between a continuing action (as in is
>   singing) and a completed action (as in
>   sang)
>(c) Longman

Works for me.

>> An "aspect" is the way a particular thing is "presented to the mind".
>
>I'm only going to bother including definitions from on-line dictionaries,
>but I've checked a number of others, and they all agree with me.  Care to
>tell me what dictionary you got the above definition from?  

If I do, will you stop hair-splitting?

>Or would you
>rather just agree that using the dictionary definitions, we were right and
>you were wrong, but you got confused because you have your own personal
>definition for the word and were using that?

Nice try, Larry. If you want to flame me, just go ahead and flame me.
Don't pretend that I'm *ASKING* to be flamed. Why do you have to be so
obtuse all the time?

>> Under that abstract definition,
>
>Weren't you complaining earlier about someone using an abstract
>definition for "rape"?  (I know *someone* was.)

Rape has a specific definition in Criminal Law, which circumscribes its 
meaning, and which gives the word a strong negative stigma. I have no problem 
with people making COMPARISONS to rape or rapists, e.g. "like rape", "similar 
to a rapist", etc. but don't actually call someone "rapist" without being able 
to prove it. And don't hide behind ersatz "abstract" REdefinitions of concrete 
common-usage terms.

By way of contrast, do you know of anyone who has ever served prison time for 
committing an "aspect", Larry? 

>> >For example, registering for a class is a prerequisite for taking a
>> >class, but it's not an *aspect* of the class.
>>
>> Sure, whatever, Larry...
>>
>> Would it make you happier if I said that the man was involved in the physical
>> aspects of GESTATION, where "gestation" encompasses conception + pregnancy?
>
>Absolutely, since then you're not using words incorrectly.

Then perhaps we can resolve this simply. I was criticizing Adrienne for
making men "invisible" with her assertion that we are "uninvolved" with the
physical aspects of pregnancy. Maybe in a strictly-literal sense of "aspect"
and of "pregnancy", men are in fact "uninvolved". However, I can just as easily 
say that by arbitrarily focussing on pregnancy, as a -subset- of gestation, 
and thereby deliberately EXCLUDING the role the man plays in the process, 
Adrienne _still_ makes men "invisible". So the basic objection, i.e. of
"invisibility", stands regardless.

								- Kevin