HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rita@EFF.ORG (Rita Marie Rouvalis)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: Scary but True [tm] 10/13/92
Date: 13 Oct 92 17:09:37 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
              Oct 13, 92 12:59 pm

> As for this gratuitous slap at Robert Bly, it reflects a certain willful
> ignorance of what he represents and advocates.

	No, Marty, you misunderstood my rather oblique statement.  It
was a gratuitious slap at the struggle of the sexes to get what the other
has... including the mistakes.  If men can get slaughtered in war, then
so should women.  If women can do stupid things to their bodies like
breast implants, men should be able to do the next best thing which is
a penis implant.

	Sometimes it seems the more we struggle to get what the other
has, the less we learn from the other's mistakes.

Rita
Who has nothing against Robert Bly.. except his poetry, which I don't like.
From: bsinger@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Bayla Singer)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: Ross
Date: 8 Oct 92 23:39:28 GMT
Organization: Misers United


 [Ross Perot]   noted that
>a small percentage of the population controls a disproportionate amount
>of the wealth and earns a disproportionate amount of income.  He stated
>something like: "A society can't work with these kinds of disparities."
>(or something like that; somebody with a better memory can correct me).
>
>I've been saying that for a long time.


--Sorry, Marty, you'll have to get him to give you some of *his* --
I'm not going to give you any of  *mine*.

Can you repeat after me, "Do what I say, not what I do"?  Last I heard, 
Perot's philanthropy ran to right-wing militaristic causes.  You think
-Perot- is going to give you "kinder, gentler"?

Please, please, wake up and go back to cynicism: this creeping Perotitis
scares me.

--bayla
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
From: karsten@netcom.com (karsten)
Subject: Re: What's wrong with the Post Office
Organization: Karsten's Bit Bucket
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 04:24:46 GMT

rashmi%Spl3.ECE.Drexel.EDU@COE.DREXEL.EDU (Rashmi) writes:
> I've never lost letters etc sent via snail mail either, one tattered letter
> made it even though most of the address was no longer legible.

One summer I sublet an apartment from a friend.  He taped the key between
two pieces of thin cardboard, placed it into a sturdy envelope and
sent it on its 130 mile journey with the US Postal Service.

Two weeks later I found a clear plastic bag with "Sorry for the
inconvenience" written on it in my mailbox.  Inside I could see the key
and at most three square inches of the original envelope, both embedded
in a puddle of grease.  What had happened and how they managed to figure
out where to send the remnants I will never know.

I suppose I should be glad I got the key - my friend had only that one.

>> Dear Mr. Karsten:
> I thought Karsten was your first name??

It is.  The bureaucrat managed to get confused somewhere between the
first address line and the salutation.

--karsten

(I guess "Dear Sucker" would have been too impersonal)
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Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 09:17:05 -0400
From:         Marty Rosen <crosen@ANDY.BGSU.EDU>
Subject:      gas tax
Comments: To: words-l@uga.bitnet

Greetings,

Steve writes:
>No, I don't know why gas stations figure prices to the .009 of a dollar.

Try going to a gas station, purchasing a gallon of gas, and asking for
your change.

Marty
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Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 03:24:10 MED
From:         "(Graham Toal)" <gtoal@STACK.URC.TUE.NL>
Subject:      Re: The Hyena Has A Sexy Voice!
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

	He doesn't just laugh wildly!  He *talks*!  And he has a *very* sexy
	voice -- but a bad ear...

Meaning he reckons you have a Southern accent? :-)

G
From: PRIMATE@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (Judith E. Schrier)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: Clinton and, well, you know
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:10:40 GMT
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Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

>>As committed as I am to the
>>Singer/Schrier (or is that Schrier/Singer?)  ticket, subtle pleas of
>>this sort might get you a nice sympathy vote....
>
>        Good God, no!  If the issue ever came up, and it wouldn't, I'd quote
>        W.T. Sherman,
Doesn't do a bit of good, Neal. That was the first thing I
did when the issue came up...

>        then point out my past use of illegal substances and
>        participation in antiwar activities.
I didn't do that, but I couldda...

love, judith

>        Vote the Schrier/Singer Singer/Schrier ticket...
Pffffttttt!
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Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1992 11:40:00 CDT
From:         "Stephen H. Karlson 753-6980 (815)"
 <TA0SHK1%NIU.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject: Re: VP debate

> Washington (DC) is north of the Mason-Dixon line.

Nope, sorry, the Northeast Corridor route of Amtrak crosses the
Mason-Dixon line at the border of Maryland with Delaware.  The
construction "south of the Mason-Dixon line" ofttimes refers to
the old secessionist states, but it's geographically incorrect.

The District of Columbia comprises land donated by Maryland and
Virginia.  During the War of the Southern Rebellion, DC was the
most heavily fortified city in the world.  General Lee's mansion
(now atop Arlington Cemetery) was confiscated by the Republic
during that war.

Steve Karlson
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Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:42:34 MST
From:         Dan Lester <ALILESTE@IDBSU.IDBSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Gleanings (63)
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
              13 Oct 1992 10:46:00 HST from <MACMILLM%EWC.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>

On Tue, 13 Oct 1992 10:46:00 HST Michael E. Macmillan said:
>>Paul, who works the late shift on WSJ 750 AM in Atlanta.
>>
>Last time I looked, the Atlanta station was WSB and there was no WSJ
>anywhere.  Been WSB since 1922.
>
   Thanks....that is just what I thought, but didn't have resources at
hand to verify.  I'm a REAL old time AM logger, and also SWL and ham....
so....I just figured maybe WSJ was another station I hadn't run across.

dan
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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:03:14 EDT
From:         EL406041@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU
Subject:      Re: 99 and 44/100 percent pure
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

Posted on 9 Oct 1992 at 14:47:51 by (Natalie Maynor)
> Please don't make me give up my new-soap pleasure!!

No, Natalie, it's okay.  I know what you mean about a new bar of soap and
sticking on old pieces.  I bought these little sponges w/ holes in them
that I put the bits inside of.  And then I use the sponges instead of a
washcloth, and we're all happy.  No waste, and new soap, and the old soap
is used.

Karen
who spent 1/2 hour this morning cutting up 10 pounds of chocolate into
hunks for students.  Karsten made it sound like I was going to eat it
all myself!  Oh, and the 10lb chunk was fresher than the bit I bought
to share w/ Cole on the airplane.
From: bsinger@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Bayla Singer)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: justice
Summary: justice
Keywords: justice
Date: 7 Oct 92 11:22:12 GMT
Organization: Diogenes-L?

Alert: Long, serious post.
---------
For Yom Kippur, I had intended to refrain from words-l as part of my
fast (thou shalt afflict thy soul, it says here), but the subject of
the VMI students and 'justice' seems appropriate for the day.  I am, 
however, limiting myself to just posting this -- I'll read all the
tasty stuff tonight, after the new sin-year starts, so I'll have
enough time to work on repentance ;-).

We are faced once again with the issue "what to do in the face of 
behavior we find objectionable."  The two types of response seem to
be, (1) why should there be any rules [strong form: who are <x> to
make rules, anyhow?], and (2) various coping strategies ranging from
<ignore them, they'll go away> and <if you don't like it, leave -- 
*you're the one with the problem> to <thrash them>.  

None of this seems satisfactory to me.  'Slippery slopes' run in all
directions: is the limitation of tolerance different in any essential
way in the physical rather than the language arena?  Shall I be required
to permit physical assault as well as verbal assault?  Can we who take
words and ideas seriously, seriously argue that the latter is less
damaging?  Indeed, the Supreme Court has moved toward the position of
considering political (and other) behavior as a form of "speech."  How 
can we justify the imposition of arbitrary (?) standards in any arena?

Is there a multi-layered regress of meta-standards, by which we can 
evaluate standards?  It seems to me this must be the case, or we run
into "because <X> says so, that's why" which is ok for those of us
who believe in some Final Authority or in the Sanctity of the Process,
but will not satisfy the self-confident anarchists who think themselves
capable of meeting any threat.

As a practical matter, standards have been found useful, as long as there
are meta-standards to which most people agree.  In the VMI case, it's
"netiquette"; in civil rights cases, it used to be only "morality,"
now it's also the law; and so on.  But what are we to do about people
who stay within the letter of the law, perhaps, and <abuse their 
privilege>?  When simple expressions of disapproval do not have their
intended effect (or worse, have the effect of intensifying the unwanted
behavior), have we an escalating set of sanctions to apply, *and* a
solid foundation of justice for doing so?

I find myself between the Scylla of permissiveness and the Charybdis
of tyrrany, and I am uncomfortable.  Maybe that's the best answer
available: do the best one can, but be uncomfortable, open to 
alternatives.  

--bayla
From: WILLIAMS%MC.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu (JOHN WHAT'S-THE-M-FOR? WILLIAMS)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: 4 over easy on two, one with bacon and home fries,
              burn the toast
Date: 13 Oct 92 22:22:22 GMT
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>went to a local restaurant supply store and purchased my very own spatula,

>Marty

        Oh, got tired of using an aplomb, huh?  8-)

JMW
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Date:         Sun, 11 Oct 1992 19:33:49 -0500
From:         Nancy Harwood <harwood@TENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Dennis! There's some lovely filth down here!"
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list WORDS-L <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

> > Speaking of the debates...did anyone else see the Kennedy-Nixon debate on
> > CNN today? I remember thinking at the time of the original debate that
> > Kennedy came out way ahead...I still thought so, but wonder now if it was
> > simply hindsight that made Nixon look so shifty to me when I saw it today.
>
> Didn't Nixon have a five-o'clock-shadow in that debate (which made him look
> like a rather shady character to some)?
> Emily

I didn't notice it in what I saw today...but I think there were several
debates, weren't there?  What I did notice is how incredibly uncomfortable
Nixon seemed in contrast to Kennedy's poise.
ndh
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Date:         Sun, 11 Oct 1992 21:48:48 CDT
From:         "(Natalie Maynor)" <maynor@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: The debates
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

> Oy -- what'm I to DO?

Vote for Clinton (unless you and Judith are still considering running,
of course).
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
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Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:51:56 EDT
From:         EL406041@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU
Subject:      Re: Ross
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

Posted on 7 Oct 1992 at 17:21:47 by Dan Lester
>   As you sorta point out below in the original, Germany and Japan
>also signed treaties after WWTwo limiting their defense organizations.

Note that these treaties were *our* idea, not *their* idea. This is an
important concept that a lot of American politicians seem not to grasp.

Karen
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Original-From: mhwpa!ktw (Kenneth T Wolman +1 201 564 2866)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:11:00 EDT
From:         ktw@MHWPA.ATT.COM
Subject:      Re: Bly
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

>I first heard Robert Bly read in, oh, 1973 or so.  His is a powerful and
>humane voice (both figuratively and literally).  His poems, translations,
>prose poems, and critical essays are challenging and well-crafted.  Those
>of us who are engaged by his work also find it often moving.  There is,
>of course, no disputing taste.  I, for instance, don't care for either
>Sylvian Plath or Ted Hughes.

I won't comment on Marty's remarks about Bly's philosophy.  However, I
heard/saw him read in Binghamton in 1974.  What I saw affected the way
I reacted to him forever after: both his poetry and his ideas.  What I
saw the night he read at SUNY/Binghamton was an intellectual and
physical bully.  He spent a good part of the evening verbally
attacking people he viewed as rivals, especially Ben Belitt, who to
his mind had the temerity to attempt translations of Neruda after he,
Bly, had done so.  And, wearing shaman masks and robes, part of his
performance included wading into the audience, grabbing select people,
and shouting in their faces.  Maybe Bly thought/thinks he is a
throwback to some bard reciting by a fire in our prehistory, but he
simply terrified and intimidated people.

Ken
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Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 10:02:22 +0100
From:         torkel@SICS.SE
Subject:      Re: Induction (was Mensa) (Now just mathematics)
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
              06 Oct 92 19:45:00 -0500. <9210070046.AA04229@sics.se>

  Mathematical pedantry follows.

  Steve formulates a mathematical argument:

 >If n is a natural
 >number, it is either prime or not prime.  If it is prime, it is the
 >product of itself and 1.  If it is not prime, it is the product of two
 >natural numbers k1 x k2.  Each ki is either prime or not prime ...
 >Therefore there is no natural number that cannot be expressed as a
 >product of primes.

  This is a rather odd formulation. The student is bound to wonder
what "..." means. What I had in mind was, rather, the following.

  We want to prove that every natural number n is a product of primes.
Actually we can't do this, since 1 is by convention not a prime. So
we want to prove instead that every natural number >= 2 is a product of primes.
First (the basis case) 2 is itself a prime, and therefore a
product of primes, again by convention. Next (the induction step),
assume that every number < k is a product of primes. If k is itself
a prime, it is again a product of primes. If k is not a prime, then
by definition, k is m*n for natural numbers m,n>1. By an earlier
lemma, m and n are smaller than k. Hence, by the induction hypothesis,
m and n are products of primes, and multiplying these products we
get a representation of k as a product of primes.

  Two notes:

  This proof does not use "induction from n to n+1", but a variant of
induction over the natural numbers, traditionally known as "proof by
infinite descent", but these days more naturally formulated in the
explicit induction principle:

  (I)  If A is a set of natural numbers satisfying

                0 is in A
                x is in A whenever every y<x is in A

       then A contains every natural number.

The principle (I') used in the proof of the arithmetical summation
formula is obtained by replacing the second assumption by "x+1 is in A
whenever x is in A".

  Using the example above also brings in an excuse for trying to make the
students prove the equivalence of these two principles. Of course,
in many cases this is hopeless.

  A second point: The proof is not a proof by contradiction, although it
does use a non-constructive dilemma. However, in this case the
non-constructive dilemma is inessential, since it is in fact provable
using only constructive logic that for every number k, k is or is not
a prime.
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Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 18:37:52 EDT
From:         EL406041@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU
Subject:      Amvets
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

Posted on 10 Oct 1992 at 16:03:31 by (Ruth M. Hanschka)
>[Amvets = disabled
>American Veterans, Akio]

No, Ruth.  It's simply an abbreviation for American Veterans.  Most of
the members were active in World War II.  My dad used to be quite active
in this, until he discovered politics.  Since then, the Republican party
has been his primary social activity.

Karen
who remembers Sunday afternoons at the Amvets post, dancing to the juke
box and hanging out
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Date:         Thu, 15 Oct 1992 19:06:00 EST
From:         CROSEN%BGSUOPIE.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      The economics of love

Greetings,

Most of you are already curled up with your personal copies of Gary Becker's
latest bestseller (Becker is the most recent Nobel laureate in economics).
For those who don't have copies, I thought I'd post a few excerpts.  By
the way, I'm quite impressed with the book I have in hand, but I'm going
to post some entertaining excerpts taken out of very dense contexts.  This
is unfair to Mr. Becker, and I suggest those who have a genuine interest
take a look for themselves.

These are from *A treatise on the family.*

"Although marriage for love has been much less important in other societies
than in contemporary Western societies, love marriages do not have to be
ignored; aspects of such marriages can be analyzed by the economic
approach...Here I show only that the effect of love on the equilibrium
sorting is analytically a special case of the effect of differences in
prferences...

It can be said that M loves F if her welfare enters his utility
function, and perhaps also if M values emotionl and physical contact
with F.  Clearly, M can benefit from a match with F, because he could then
have a more favorable effect on her welfare--and thereby on his own
utility--and because the commodities measuring "contract" with F can be
produced more cheaply when they are matched than when M has to seek an
"illicit" relationship with F.  Even if F were "selfish" and did not
return M's love, she would benefit from a match with someone who loves her,
because he would transfer resources to her to increase his own utility.
Moreover, a marriage involving love is more efficient than other
marriages, even when one of the mates is selfish and, and increased
efficiency benefits the selfish mate also...Marriages involving love
are likely to be part of the equilibrium sorting because in market
terms they are more productive than other marriages."

"An efficient marriage market assigns imputed incomes or "prices" to all
participants that attract them to suitable polygamous or monogamous
marriages.  Imputed prices are also used to match men and women of
different qualities: some participants choose to be matched with "inferior"
persons because they feel "superior" persons are too expensive....An
efficient marriage market usually has positive assortative mating, where
high quality men are matched with high-quality women and low-quality
men with low-quality women, although negative assortative mating is
sometimes important."

Well, you get the picture.  If I have time, I'll post more excerpts, but
all this romantic talk is distracting; maybe I sould post this to alt.sex?

Marty
From: maynor@RA.MSSTATE.EDU ((Natalie Maynor))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: Clinton and, well, you know
Date: 13 Oct 92 16:16:49 GMT
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Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

> I can't speak about Clinton on this, but Gore is well known as an advocate
> of NREN; he has spoken on this topic many times, notably at library
> conferences.

I think Quayle tried logging on once but kept misspelling his password.
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 19:20:56 EDT
From:         EL406041@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU
Subject:      Re: Thermodynamics
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

Posted on 9 Oct 1992 at 17:52:24 by (Rashmi)
>Does this help, O Karen?

Mais oui, O Rashmi!:)

>> Karen
>> who wishes she were in sunny Spain w/ Torkel, drinking white sangria.
>Me too, it's been raining all day.

This is the rain we had yesterday--total uckiness.  But, take heart, it
will stop soon, and today was lovely.  But another cold front comes in
from Nebraska tomorrow AM.  I am happy that my hibiscus is still blooming--
bright red blooms the size of dinner plates.  It's been blooming since...
gosh, I think since August.  Though that seems awfully long.

Karen
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Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 03:16:17 MED
From:         "(Graham Toal)" <gtoal@STACK.URC.TUE.NL>
Subject:      Re: Fun in Webster's
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

:> 	feist \'fi-st\ n [obs. fisting hound, fr. obs. fist (to break wind)]
:> 	   chiefly dial  : a small dog
:>
:> Good grief.  That's obscene.
:
:I know.  I've never told Bernard the etymology.  He's half feist.
:   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)

Oh, so you only use two fingers?

G
From: maynor@RA.MSSTATE.EDU ((Natalie Maynor))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: First Pre-Goat-Roast Gathering
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:27:23 GMT
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Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

> P.S. Is Natalie going to go outside to smoke?:)

Natalie hasn't smoked in house, car, or office for the past 24 hours --
ever since Mama Primate's plans became definite.  House windows and car
windows have been open to air the air.  Can't open office windows since
there aren't any.
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
From: rita@EFF.ORG (Rita Marie Rouvalis)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: Clinton and, well, you know
Date: 13 Oct 92 16:52:58 GMT
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Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
              rain" at Oct 13, 92 12:39 pm

> 	I suppose I'm wondering whether any of these guys would sit down with
> 	screen and keyboard (or mouse, for you Mac/GUI fans) and start
> 	playing/working/using.
>
> 	Al Gore?  He's a tough read for me.

	Al Gore actually has a good understanding of the NREN and its
trappings.  He even uses e-mail.

Rita
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