HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: sockets and netrek
Date: 5 Jan 93 20:17:03 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1993Jan4.030555.8332@doug.cae.wisc.edu> chris@inconel.uucp (Christian) writes:
>Has anyone noticed the daemon grabing socktes and then not releasing them??
>I notice that when I do a pstat -f on my sparc 2, every day I get an
>inceasing # of sockets piling up. 

The daemon doesn't grab sockets.  ntserv does.  Check your machine for
defunct processes that haven't exited (try ps -auxg).

The sockets SHOULD be freed when the processes exit; if not, they should time
out shortly thereafter.  My best guess is that the ntservs aren't getting
reaped.

>-Chris
>(SunOS 4.1.1, Sparc2, running the RSA version of the bronco.final server.)

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
From: bav@hobbes.ksu.ksu.edu (Brick Verser)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: misconceptions
Date: 11 Jan 1993 05:45:48 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: hobbes.ksu.ksu.edu

In article <1993Jan10.230814.28042@ncsu.edu> jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu writes:
>>4) Dying with armies is worse than not picking them up.  FALSE
>This one should be tattooed on the back of the neck of anyone in a LPS or
>core-planet situation.  If a planet being attacked has armies, PICK THEM UP.

If your team can't stop someone from bombing your only planet, then
they also can't stop someone from dropping armies on it.  And if you
grab those armies, then you're essentially taking yourself out of the
game since you'll be so nervous about keeping those armies alive that
you won't likely participate much in defending that last planet.  I'm
more comfy when folks just leave the popped armies on the home planet
until there are enough to actually do something useful, though I've
seen the other approach work just fine.  But please, let's not start
teaching newbies to grab LPS armies and try to live with 'em.

> 4a)  Running away while carrying armies is better than going for the
> planet, trying to drop and dying.       FALSE

Depends.  I rather enjoy getting three enemy oggers to chase me and often
feel like I'm doing my team more good by taking three enemy players out
into 3rd space than had I stayed around.  And if you DO run, the enemy has 
to keep resources aimed at you, which then takes pressure off the next
teammate who picks up.  And a short run back to the escorts you managed
to outrun is often highly strategic.  While it's good to try to make
timid newbie planet scums less timid, don't preach that retreat is 
sinful, either; it depends too much on the situation.

--Brick
From: jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu (have clue, will travel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: manual for newbies
Date: 7 Jan 93 00:44:49 GMT
Reply-To: jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu
Organization: The Ghost Of Christmas Past Society


takekosh@aludra.usc.edu (Tetsu Takekoshi) writes:

>has anyone written a basic "how to play" manual for newbies?
>i'd be willing to crank one out if it'll help clue at all.
> Crunchy Frog

A nice idea, but it involves a basic assumption--that the newbies
who would benefit from a basic how-to-play manual would know WHERE
to find it or have the initiative to take time out and go READ the
bloody thing, instead of flying around randomly shooting things.

Hell, when you buy a new game or a new toy, do you read the instructions
first, or tear the wrapper off and start flailing away?  I know I'm the
latter, and was merrily clueless for my first semester of netrek before
I started paying attention to small details like planets and armies.

For the intermediate player who's GOT the barest basics down (how to
control a ship, what a planet is/does, what armies are/do, etc.), the
reams of info on Jon Hardwick's CMU account would seem to do nicely,
along with the never-substitutable-for experience factor.

If you're interested in writing something, though, fire away.  The netrek
world can always use more comprehensible documentation.

		--Commodore Video Sex Pope, NCSU (weeeeeeeeeeeeeasel!)
		--"Chapter 24: How to Send Messages and Shoot Simultaneously"
--
     jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu      \\              To KLH:
 "I don't know where you took   --=--      Love ya, Katya!
 me, but I didn't want to leave."   \\  have clue, will travel.
       ---------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: markiel@callisto.pas.rochester.edu (Andrew Markiel)
Subject: Re: Sometimes you just gotta wonder....
Organization: U(r) AstroTheory Group
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 09:53:42 GMT

This might be worth putting in the FAQ.

If I remember the explanation correctly (insert foot in mouth), if the
netrek daemon dies or is killed, but ntserv is still running, then you
can connect to the server, choose a ship, send messages, info planets,
and do all the standard netrek things, but because the daemon isn't
running, there is no time flow, so ships don't move, torps don't fly,
planets don't grow, etc. You also can't get out, I assume since shift-Q
never gets processed by the daemon. Thus, the only way out is to kill
the client, and the server never gets around to removing the connection.
Thus, as people continue to join and get stuck, the pile of players
grows and grows, until the whole game is full. Whenever you see a
seldom used server with a wait queue, this is the usual situation.

So, alas, there was no game, it was just a cruel joke. Sorry :)

I wonder:  is there any way for the Metaserver to detect
a server that is stuck like this? If so, it would be very useful to
let people know that there isn't a game going on on that server.

-Grey Elf
markiel@callisto.pas.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: markiel@callisto.pas.rochester.edu (Andrew Markiel)
Subject: Re: Coaches (again).
Organization: U(r) AstroTheory Group
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 10:51:08 GMT

In article <1ii38kINN7i2@agate.berkeley.edu> mehlhaff@soda.berkeley.edu (ERic MeHlHaFf) writes:
>In article <1i2qjbINN75c@agate.berkeley.edu> tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:
>>
>>Yes, this is a live issue, that will be dealt with right after the
>>scheduling and the INL Council replacements are.  It will be done
>>by the Server Hack (ERic Mehlhaff).  
>>
>
>Shouldn't be too hard, considering I've already done half of the work in
>my copilot hacks to the NBR server. 
>However, some of the description suggests a possible need for a special
>client for the 'coaches' to use. I think this can be avoided, depending on how
>much kludging people want to see.
>
>Come to think of it, it might not be that bad.
>Use lock-on packets to switch tactical map around, message normally. Coach
>has 'invisible constantly dead ship' or something like that...
>Should be pretty simple, actually.
>
>I'd like to see some more discussion on how this should be implemented before
I start working on it.
>

The dogfight server had observers who were invisible, undamagable,
and who could change focus using the lock command. They could see
the standard messages for themselves, their team, and all. Could
you just pirate that code?

>Anyway, gotta go!
>
>Keep those photons flying!
>-- 
>ERic mehlhaff					   mehlhaff@soda.Berzerkeley.EDU
>mehlhaff@ocf.berkeley.EDU         "Life? Don't talk to me about life..." -Marvin

-Grey Elf
markiel@callisto.pas.rochester.edu
Organization: Doctoral student, Mathematics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Fri,  8 Jan 1993 00:51:34 -0500 
From: Erik Lauer <el0g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: INL pop code
	<1993Jan7.150306.25073@cis.ohio-state.edu>

amueller@beech.cis.ohio-state.edu (andrew j mueller) writes:

>	very interesting point. while most people are still trying to
>	learn how to fly a ship or bomb a planet, joe (while SC bombing)
>	KNOWS he has 30 seconds to OGG and get back into position to
>	bomb any possible popping armies. it's refreshing to see some
>	careful analysis of the game shared in the newsgroup rather
>	than worthless flame wars.


Doesn't everyone who knows about this use clocks?  Don't takers care
when then planets pop (theirs to grab armies, and better to take soon
after the opposing pop)?  Don't oggers want to know if they should die
and get a new ship or stay in position with the current weakened ship?


Erik
---=
From: dtabb@ecst.csuchico.edu (Don Tabb)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Elements of teamwork (long)
Date: 5 Jan 93 20:44:14 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: hairball.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <C0Aqsz.ACG.1@cs.cmu.edu> spot@CS.CMU.EDU (Scott Draves) writes:
>
>bert> Tell your team that you'll be playing a certain role, such as
>bert> scout-bomber, ogger, or escort, and then stick to it for a long time.
>
>tom> I've never found it to be as effective as having everyone do
>tom> everything.  This worked for the Golden Bears this fall because
>tom> we had 8 dynamic players who could do it all ... , but I think the
>tom> quintessential INL team wouldn't have assigned roles.
>
>bert> Interesting, I didn't realize GB worked without roles.  I tend to agree
>bert> that everybody-do-everything is probably superior, especially for a
>bert> team that can talk in the room.  Side Salad did it that way too.
>
scott>hmm, well sort of.  we never told people what role to fill mostly
scott>because each of us mostly just played our favorite role.  i'm not sure
scott>about other people, but i don't take my role too literally, if there's
scott>an army and i have a kill i pick it up unless a planet scum is nearby.


from what I remember, Side Salad started with 
 
   2 bombers
   2 defenders (sb + another)
   1 fulltime ogger 
   3 planet scums/ogger/escorts/bombers/defenders.
       (in that order)

after the armies were bombed, we went to 
   
   3 bombers/oggers
   1 defenders
   1 fulltime ogger
   3 planet scums/ogger/escorts/bombers/defenders.


the joy of side salad was that we didn't really talk that much.  we
just knew what to do.  we would have 1 bomber clear the planet and 
another  bomb. but we never 'said' anything.  we just did it.  if the
armies were bombed, the bombers ogged or escorted.  if they had few 
people with kills, the oggers would bomb.  you did what you felt like
doing.  If they needed to be bombed, you jumped into a scout.  If they
needed ogged, you jumped into a CA.  You never really told anyone what
to do.   My first game sums it up well.  My orders that game: 
"bomb, ogg, take planets"


don
dtabb@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu
Scorn!
aka Misc. Spices    
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: markiel@callisto.pas.rochester.edu (Andrew Markiel)
Subject: Re: ntserv
Organization: U(r) AstroTheory Group
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 10:53:43 GMT

In article <1ii9k2INNdpq@tamsun.tamu.edu> jeffw@cs.tamu.edu (Jeffrey A Waller) writes:
>
>Does the server reverify after a ghostbust?
>
>							-Jeff

Yes, it does. (Whenever I get ghostbusted, after I reenter I get another
"requestion verification" message).

-Grey Elf
markiel@callisto.pas.rochester.edu
From: sjsmith@cs.umd.edu (Stephen Joseph Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: I was in charge of the music...
Date: 10 Jan 93 08:11:35 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Maryland at College Park

(((
Kate Bush, _Lionheart_
Scorpions, _Best of Rockers 'n' Ballads_
AC/DC, _Back in Black_
Alphaville, _Afternoons in Utopia_
Survivor, _Vital Signs_
)))

...Wreck was in charge of the Bronco Starbase Maxkills Record, 436.27 [or so.]

- Gamera
From: btd@iastate.edu (Benjamin T Dehner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Cluechecking on servers - get the twinks!
Date: 8 Jan 93 00:48:45 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

In <1iifnqINNari@agate.berkeley.edu> sfd@soda.berkeley.edu (Scott Drellishak) writes:

>In article <1993Jan7.155555.62539@cc.usu.edu> sl7sg@cc.usu.edu writes:
>)  [ "CLEVER" SCHEME DELETED ]
>)
>)		Comments?

>You're an asshole.  I presume you were born full-clued from you
>mother's womb?  How do you expect people to learn how to play the
>game?

	They learn just as well when they just get kicked off the server 
instead?

Cthulhu

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benjamin T. Dehner    Dept. of Physics and Astronomy 
btd@iastate.edu       Iowa State University 
                      Ames, IA 50011
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: osyjm@cs.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen)
Subject: Teensy correction: (was Re: Scattered Pops in INL)
Organization: CS
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:46:58 GMT

In article <gfH5m9G00YUoE=lXQU@andrew.cmu.edu> jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph E. Beck) writes:
>
>difficult than 40).  But 10 is just an arbitrary number.  Scott said
>his pop code worked on 1 second intervals (I think he said 1), and
>since he's the INL server hack he shouldn't have any problems.  If the

Minor correction, unless my co-council members slipped something by me
while my back was turned, Eric Mehlhaff is the INL hack not Scott...
-- 
 Jaye Mathisen, COE Systems Manager                (406) 994-4780
 410 Roberts Hall,Dept. of Computer Science
 Montana State University,Bozeman MT 59717	osyjm@cs.montana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: piperno@mars.Colorado.EDU (Serge Piperno)
Subject: Re: Cluechecking on servers - get the twinks!
Reply-To: piperno@boulder.Colorado.EDU
Organization: University of Colorado at Boulder
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 19:18:47 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.155555.62539@cc.usu.edu>, sl7sg@cc.usu.edu writes:
sl7sg|>          ... the first time they don't read, they are killed, the
sl7sg|>          second time, they are placed into a special ship.

I have another proposal for a cluechecking tmode in xtrek.

definition of the cluechecking tmode :

An entering player is automatically in spectator mode (irrevocably 
in peace with everybody). If he answers God's cluechecking messages
like in DOORSTOP right, he is in normal condition till the next
message. We could imagine an smooth ejection procedure for a
certain number of divine unanswered messages...
Of course, this applies for TMODE WITH WAITING LIST.

Pipo.
From: hadley@cad.ics.uci.edu (Tedd Hadley)
Subject: Re: UDP question (was Re: Netrek 358: Starbase Theory & Concept)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Organization: UC Irvine Department of ICS
Date: 11 Jan 93 09:50:17 GMT

In <C0oIzq.H7E@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig) writes:

>An even more distantly related question :

>What is the difference between simple UDP and enforced UDP?

    - Send with TCP only.  If your TCP link is decent but you are dropping UDP
      commands, this is useful.
    - Send with simple UDP.  Most commands will be sent via UDP.  This is the
      default.
    - Send with enforced UDP (state only).  Several of the commands which are
      sent via UDP will be repeated if the next update doesn't reflect that
      change.  For example, if you try to raise shields but they aren't up
      on the next update, the "raise shields" command will be resent.  Note
      that some commands will be repeated up to 10 times.  On a lagged system,
      this can result in every command being sent twice.
    - Send with enforced UDP (state+weap).  This is like the previous, except
      that phasers and plasmas are also repeated (but only once).  This will
      usually result in warnings about phasers not recharging or limits on
      computer power, which should be ignored.

   [Andy McFadden, Apr 92]

++
   Tedd Hadley (hadley@uci.edu)
From: jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu (have clue, will travel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: INL pop code
Date: 7 Jan 93 01:24:29 GMT
Reply-To: jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu
Organization: The Ghost Of Christmas Past Society


jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph E. Beck) writes:

>I'd like to make an INL proposal to change the pop timer from the
>current 40 seconds to a 25% every 10 seconds (like the final Bronco
>release).  People have commented that it doesn't make much difference
>how the pops work but it *does*.  If you know that your opponents
>won't be popping any armies for 30 seconds, that certainly changes
>your SC bombers strategy (they're now free to ogg for awhile).  Also,
>you can take an AGRI in 2 trips and be certain of it not popping in
>the meantime.  If you aren't popping for awhile there's no reason to
>sit in your home space and wait for armies.  It fixes this, and
>shouldn't be that difficult (the code has been written).

By George, he's right.  I'll second this proposal (as if anyone gives a
rat's ass what I second).  Not only do I prefer the scattered-pop system
for personal reasons, I agree that the 2-trip-Agri-take situation does
make a difference in gameplay.

Or am I just being broncocentric?

			--Commander RandomAnnoyance, NCSU (bigmax scum-boy)
			--"Scattered pops == a more steady stream of oggables.
				Sign me up."

--
     jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu      \\              To KLH:
 "I don't know where you took   --=--      Love ya, Katya!
 me, but I didn't want to leave."   \\  have clue, will travel.
       ---------------------------------------------------
Organization: Doctoral student, Mathematics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Thu,  7 Jan 1993 06:54:44 -0500 
From: Erik Lauer <el0g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: INL pop code
	<1ifubuINNrb9@agate.berkeley.edu>

 sfd@soda.berkeley.edu (Scott Drellishak) writes:

>In article <MfGqZVG00YUn895KYE@andrew.cmu.edu> jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu
(Joseph E. Beck) writes:
>)
>)I'd like to make an INL proposal to change the pop timer from the
>)current 40 seconds to a 25% every 10 seconds (like the final Bronco
>)release).  [ STUFF DELETED ]
>)
>)Comments?
>
>I think this is a good idea, but why go half way?  The problem is:
>
>	All planets are given a chance to pop every 40 seconds.  This
>	makes pops too predictable -- there is a galaxy-wide burst of
>	armies every 40 seconds.
>
>I don't think the proper solution is reducing the chances of a pop by
>a factor of 4 and then popping 4 times as often -- there is still a
>galaxy-wide pop every 10 seconds, although a smaller one.  This is
>still too "discrete" of an army growth pattern.  The solution I
>implemented on bezier, ages ago, was to randomly pick one planet every
>second and give it a chance to pop.  The total army growth rate of the
>galaxy is unchanged, but now players can't easily predict and prepare
>for a galaxy-wide pop.
>
>Comments?

How about a comprimise:  every quarter second a random planet has a 1/4
normal chance of popping :-)

I like your idea better, though I would want to play a few games of it first.

BTW, an early plague of a core planet is a big random problem.  Has
anyone though of making planets not plague the first few minutes (or
maybe not plague unless the planet has lots of armies)?

>-- 
>/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
>| Scott Drellishak   sfd@neuromancer.metaphor.com                          |
>|                "Spumco ... the Danes call it quality."                   |
>\--------------------------------------------------------------------------/


Erik
---=
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: amueller@beech.cis.ohio-state.edu (andrew j mueller)
Subject: Re: INL pop code
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 12:18:51 GMT

In article <QfHFNai00VB4E1h0gA@andrew.cmu.edu> Erik Lauer <el0g+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>amueller@beech.cis.ohio-state.edu (andrew j mueller) writes:
>
>>	very interesting point. while most people are still trying to
>>	learn how to fly a ship or bomb a planet, joe (while SC bombing)
>>	KNOWS he has 30 seconds to OGG and get back into position to
>>	bomb any possible popping armies. it's refreshing to see some
>>	careful analysis of the game shared in the newsgroup rather
>>	than worthless flame wars.
>
>
>Doesn't everyone who knows about this use clocks?  Don't takers care
>when then planets pop (theirs to grab armies, and better to take soon
>after the opposing pop)?  Don't oggers want to know if they should die
>and get a new ship or stay in position with the current weakened ship?
>
>
>Erik
>---=
	Sure, I have a system clock(with seconds hand) in the upper right
	corner of my CRT, but I find it not always handy to keep watching
	it. Within 5 min of a game I know which planets pop more than others
	and about when they pop. when SC bombing, I'll usually drift between
	the 2 aggies and the 2 planets that pop most often. The point I was
	MOST concerned with was the clueful analysis of the game being
	discussed in this forum. Now, (hopefully) there will be alot
	of people getting clocks,watching planet pops more carefully,
	and playing better because someone decided to share something
	usefull. The only problem is that there is no standard, most every
	server is running a different version.

*****************************************************************************
GOD->ALL: bloodwing(K1) was kill 4.0 for .sig(R0)
GOD->ALL: bloodwing(K1) was kill 5.0 for .sig(R0)
K1--->R0: lucky shot
GOD->ALL: bloodwing(K1) was kill 6.0 for .sig(R0)
GOD->ALL: bloodwing(K1) was kill 7.0 for .sig(R0)
K1-->ALL: Commodore bloodwing(K1) leaving the game.
*****************************************************************************
From: sl7sg@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Cluechecking on servers - get the twinks!
Date: 9 Jan 93 12:47:30 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <books.167.0@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu>, books@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu (Roger Books) writes:
> // Bogus post deleted
> 
        Woa, and I thought it was a totally tubular idea...
>>
>>                                        
> It's is an interesting idea, but still bogus.  On doorstop the clueless
> are kicked off and will go looking to find out what is wrong.  On this
> server they are going to think this is normal play.  If this is the first
> machine they have played on they might drop the whole netrek thing entirely.
> "Yeah, I played, the game sucks.  After you die a few times it sticks you
> in this really sucky ship.  You have to quit and get back on to get a decent
> ship."
> 
	Good point.


		-Lynx
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: INL plague code (was: Re: INL pop code)
Date: 8 Jan 1993 23:17:24 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <C0I2In.5I0.1@cs.cmu.edu> spot@CS.CMU.EDU (Scott Draves) writes:
)>>>>> On 7 Jan 93 17:30:38 GMT, leonard@mimsy.umd.edu (Leonard Dickens) said:
)
)Leonard> As it stands the plague code essentially limits the good a
)Leonard> team can do for itself defensively in the opening.
)
)"limit" isn't the right word.  "effect" is better.  it introduces a
)risk to the obvious strategy of piling everything on the homeworld.  i
)think this is good.  it's a tradeoff.  

I agree; it's too difficult to deal with 75 armies on Earth as
a Romulan; there should be some kind of risk to doing that.

)yes, currently the mid-game lasts so long that the opening has little
)impact on the outcome of the match.  i don't like this.  i think INL
)matches should be shorter, more like 60 minutes.  

I have been thinking of proposing a shorter game, 60-90 minutes.
There have been very few upsets in the INL and I agree that this
is symptompatic of a game that lasts too long.  Of course, the question
becomes, are we interested in finding who is the better team, or
are we interested in emulating a sporting event?  I have always 
felt that the latter makes the INL more interesting and useful to
the netrek community.
 -Tom