HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Newsgroups: ba.general,misc.kids,misc.legal
Subject: Re: Attractive Nuisances (Was: Re: East Bay Regional Parks/dog restrictions)
Date: 7 Oct 92 05:04:30 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Oct6.184857.12075@adobe.com> pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai) writes:

>In article <1992Oct6.104628.25500@netcom.com> mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes:

>>I'd like a better answer, please.  First, what is it about this
>>particular law that you find so satisfactory?  Second, exactly

>Because it is effective. The kind of children who are most likely to be

OK, I throw in the towel.  A once-proud and philosophical libertarian
has tossed his values in favor of "effective" and "reasonable" aims.
When I ask who gets to decide what constitutes "effective" and
"reasonable" I am told that existing case law is quite clear.

The coercive army claims another soldier, and personal liberty is
dealt another setback.  What the heck, in about a month, such invasions
upon personal freedom are going to seem trivial...
-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
From: desmond@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM
Newsgroups: ba.general
Subject: ba.singles
Date: 9 Oct 92 21:48:19 GMT
Reply-To: desmond@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM ()
Distribution: ba
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver-248


The following is being posted for a friend.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

		Free Dance Workshop by Ariel School of Dance

			Sunday October 11, 1992
		
		
	
Come join the fun and discover dance as a CREATIVE and RELAXING avenue

for self-expression.  You are invited to Ariel School of Dance's FREE

WORKSHOP for adults and children this Sunday, October 11, 1992 from

9 am to 2 pm.  Experience a day of creative expression through dance!


Schedule:

	 9 am - 10 am	Adult Beginning Jazz with Oanh
	
	10 am - 11 am	Adult Intermediate Jazz with Gail
	
	11 am - 12 pm	Adult Beginning Modern with Oanh

	12 pm -  1 pm 	Adult Beginning Hip Hop with Rodel

	 1 pm - 1:30 pm Children Pre-ballet (3 1/2 - 5 1/2 yrs) with Kerry

	1:30pm - 2:00pm	Children Beg. Dance (5 1/2 - 9 1/2 yrs) with Kerry


Ariel School of Dance
3068 Scott Blvd.
Santa Clara, CA 95054

between Space Park & San Thomas Expressway 
(408) 247-3657
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ba.general
Subject: Re: stupid consumers
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:15:57 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Oct10.063007.23176@odin.corp.sgi.com>, pcd@otter.esd.sgi.com (Paul C. David) writes:
> As for "Mr. Wonderful,the Governor".  I just can't say that I think
> of Pete Wilson as  "Mr. Wonderful,the Governor".  This doesn't make me 
> angry though.  What does make me angry is that Pete Wilson cut the
> public school budgets enough to necessitate a 40+% fee hike in the 
> CSU.  Enough to force faculty layoffs and curriculum reductions.

And then they were rehired.  Like my philosophy professor this
semester.

> Enough to vaporize entire academic programs.  And he betrayed a 

Which ones?  Alas, the non-academic programs, like Women's Studies
and Ethnic Studies don't ever seem to go away.

> promise to the women, minorities, and homosexuals of the state by 
> not signing anti-discrimination laws (after promising to do so).  

AB 2601 wasn't signed?

> Paul C. David 
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Lesson learned from Gov. Wilson's signing of AB 2601: if you don't get 
your way, have a riot.  Next time, Gov. Wilson will cower appropriately.
Newsgroups: ba.general
From: pedwards@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Paul N Edwards)
Subject: Available to House-sit between 10/15 and 12/23
Organization: Stanford University CSLI
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 01:02:50 GMT


I'm a former Santa Cruz resident (9 years) who's just returned to
the Bay area as a visiting professor at Stanford. I'm looking for 
housesitting situations anywhere in the Peninsula area, for any duration
longer than two weeks, anytime between Oct. 15th and
Christmas. I'm clean, responsible, and good with plants and animals.
I'm trying to finish a book about the cultural and political
history of computers, so I mostly need a quiet desk and a coffeemaker.

Range: anywhere from Los Gatos to San Francisco, though the Palo Alto
area is best for me. Will also consider Santa Cruz and La Honda
areas.

Arrangements: I'll take care of your house, yard, plants, and animals,
take messages, and do anything else you need (within reason) in
exchange for a place to stay.

If you or anyone you know is taking a long vacation or leaving town
for a while, I'd appreciate a call.

My name is Paul Edwards. You can reach me in any of the following
ways:

voicemail 415-804-5952, theoretically toll-free
office phone 415-723-2780 
email pedwards@euphrates.stanford.edu

mail: Dept. of Computer Science
	Bldg. 460, Margaret Jacks Hall
	Stanford University
	Stanford, CA  94305
From: nchen@rainbow.Tymnet.COM (Nancy Chen)
Newsgroups: ba.market,ba.general
Subject: Single House for Rent
Date: 12 Oct 92 21:03:13 GMT
Followup-To: ba.market
Distribution: ba
Organization: BT North America (Tymnet)

****************************************************************
*   3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms single house at Fremont for RENT   *
****************************************************************
- walking distance to the library, park and high school
- 7 years old one floor single house 
- 1250 sq feet living area and 4100 sq feet lot size
- Front yard is taken care by the community
- Between FWY 680 and 880
- South Fremont area
- Rent: $1100 per month 
  Deposit: $1300 (one-month rent + Cleaning deposit $200)

Please call Nancy at 408-922-6050 during the day or 
		     408-255-8456 at night.
Xref: sparky ba.general:4403 misc.legal:18500
From: whs70@dancer.uucp (22501-sohl)
Newsgroups: ba.general,misc.legal
Subject: Re: East Bay Regional Parks/dog restrictions
Date: 11 Oct 92 22:23:16 GMT
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ

In article <1b4sqmINNinl@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> larrabee@cse.ucsc.edu (Tracy Larrabee) writes:
>In article <1992Oct9.202916.29848@leland.Stanford.EDU> eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) writes:
>&>
>&>Children are not responsible. This seems to be a difficult concept for
>&>many of the participants in this discussion. Maybe you could recall
>&>your childhood to help you get a grip on this concept.
>&>
>&
>&When I was a child, My parents forbid me to leave the property.
>&Once I was a little older (prob 13 yrs) I could wander the neighbor-
>&hood, but only areas THEY were familiar with. If I went outside 
>&of this, I was punished by NOT being alowed to leave the house. 
>&Seemed pretty simple to me- I learned to be responsible this 
>&way too.
>&
>
>And you learned good social interaction skills too, we imagine.

I suppose the implication of that statement is that by restricting the
child's area in which s/he can roam at will means the child will
be hampered in his/her development of social interaction skills.
What a stupid (sorry no other description fits) jump in logic.

Standard Disclaimer- Any opinions, etc. are mine and NOT my employer's.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note - If email replying to me with an automatic addressing process
bounces, manually address the resend using one of the addresses below.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Sohl (K2UNK) BELLCORE (Bell Communications Research, Inc.)
Morristown, NJ             email via UUCP      bcr!dancer!whs70
201-829-2879 Weekdays      email via Internet  whs70@dancer.cc.bellcore.com
From: jamesf@btr.btr.com (James G. Franklin  jamesf@btr.com)
Newsgroups: ba.general
Subject: Inexpensive Physical needed soon- any ideas/experience?
Date: 8 Oct 92 23:21:31 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: BTR Public Access UNIX, MtnView CA. For info contact: info@BTR.COM

Hi all. I'm applying for Blue Cross medical insurance and they want me to
fill out a form which is essentially a complete physical. They only 
reimburse $25 and all teh places I called are at least $170. There's no
way I can afford the difference right now. Does any know where (if) I 
can get a physical for less than that?  Any help is greatly appreciated.

thanks, jim
From: henry@tahurangi.ads.com (Henry Mensch)
Newsgroups: ba.general
Subject: Re: stupid consumers
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:24:16 GMT
Reply-To: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Distribution: ba
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems, a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton

eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stupid Consumer) writes:
|> >the japanese airlines cater better to japanese needs than us airlines
|> >do ... 
|> 
|> I hardly care about the meal service on aplane- I rather care about 
|> safety, when such a substantial difference exists.

like i said: put up or shut up.  you've failed to demonstrate (with facts)
that this is true.  being a frequent flyer and follower of the airline
industry myself, i know of no evidence which suggests that carriers like
singapore, jal, ana, cathay pacific, etc. are less safe than us carriers.

|> Ignoring the rude attitude of your request, In fact, I do have the data.
|> The data was compiled by a private firm, and they 
|> logged such things as "passenger fatalities per flight", and "passenger
|> fatalities per passenger carried".  the Japanese airlines were
|> almost four times higher (worse) in each catagory.

cite a reference that i can check.  an ISBN or a title/author combination
will do fine.

|> Someone else brought up the issue about the US not importing certain 
|> vehicles. i know nothing about these vehicles that  they are refering to.

obviously not the only think you know nothing about.

-- 
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
Newsgroups: ba.general
From: pedwards@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Paul N Edwards)
Subject: Available to House-sit 10/15 to 12/23
Organization: Stanford University CSLI
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 21:21:03 GMT


I'm a former Santa Cruz resident (9 years) who's just returned to
the Bay area as a visiting professor at Stanford. I'm looking for 
housesitting situations anywhere in the Peninsula area, for any duration
longer than two weeks, anytime between Oct. 15th and
Christmas. I'm clean, responsible, and good with plants and animals.
I'm trying to finish a book about the cultural and political
history of computers, so I mostly need a quiet desk and a coffeemaker.

Range: anywhere from Los Gatos to San Francisco, though the Palo Alto
area is best for me. Will also consider Santa Cruz and La Honda
areas.

Arrangements: I'll take care of your house, yard, plants, and animals,
take messages, and do anything else you need (within reason) in
exchange for a place to stay.

If you or anyone you know is taking a long vacation or leaving town
for a while, I'd appreciate a call.

My name is Paul Edwards. You can reach me in any of the following
ways:

voicemail 415-804-5952, theoretically toll-free
office phone 415-723-2780 
email pedwards@euphrates.stanford.edu

mail: Dept. of Computer Science
	Bldg. 460, Margaret Jacks Hall
	Stanford University
	Stanford, CA  94305
From: lindae@netcom.com
Newsgroups: ba.general
Subject: Shared Housing in Sunnyvale
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:30:31 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)



Available November 15th
This is a 2 bedroom, 2 bath apt. with a Loft
You would have your own bedroom (the Master Bedroom) with your own
private bathroom in your bedroom.  You would also be able to share
the Loft area which I will be using as an office... you can have
half of that room to use as office/study space, or whatever.

This is a modern apt. complex (only about 4 years old) with 2 swimming
pools, a jacuzzi, and a small workout room.  Most of the residents are
young couples or singles in their 20's and 30's.

I am looking for a female roommate who is a professional (or student) and
who is responsible, 25-35 years old, non-smoker, no drugs, and no pets.
I am all of the above.

Your half of the rent will be $567.50 (DON'T FORGET -- THAT ALSO INCLUDES
1/2 OF THE LOFT AREA)

If this sounds good to you, please send e-mail IMMEDIATELY!  I have a 
deposit down on this apartment and need to find a roommate ASAP!!

Thanks,
Linda
lindae@netcom.com
Newsgroups: ba.general
From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Subject: Re: stupid consumers
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 15:43:46 GMT

In article 23003@leland.Stanford.EDU, eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) writes:
>>
>>|> cite a reference that i can check.  an ISBN or a title/author
>>|> combination will do fine.
>>
>
>Ever hear of a Card-Catalog?  Or don't they teach that in grammer 
>school anymore?  Maybe you were absent that day     :^)


Gee, Eric, for a Stanford student you sure are thick.  You come up with some 
unreasonable claim, which no one else has ever heard, and when someone asks for
any kind of substantiation, you point to the library.

Here is a clue:  if you make up facts, you are better off to ignore people asking
for some substantiation.  Or mayby say that you had it yesterday, but that your
dog ate it.  


---
Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141

Newsgroups: ba.general,misc.kids,misc.legal
From: tzs@stein.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith)
Subject: Re: Attractive Nuisances (Was: Re: East Bay Regional Parks/dog restrictions)
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 02:41:18 GMT

mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes:
>In the past 30-odd years, however, there seems to have been an
>increased public awareness of property rights, and a desire to
>further restrict them.  The Civil Rights Act of 1963 (?) for example
>was opposed by conservatives like Barry Goldwater specifically
>because of its implication for property rights.  I don't know when
>the first attractive nuisance law was passed, but it wouldn't
>surprise me if it were from about the same era.

Attractive nuisance is at least 100 years old.

--Tim Smith
Newsgroups: ba.general,misc.kids,misc.legal
From: brunner@telebit.com (Eric Brunner)
Subject: Re: Attractive Nuisanaces, was..Re: East Bay Regi..........
Organization: Telebit Corporation; Sunnyvale, CA, USA
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 00:20:03 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.191812.15085@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> whs70@dancer.uucp (22501-sohl) writes:

[In response to my earlier post, fragments omitted.]

>>Reset. The parents didn't know that the turntable even existed.
>
>Now if the turntable is within 1/2 mile or less of the kid's home,
>then that's really neglect on the parents part.  And if the parents
>are content with letting a 10 year lod roam far and wide, then that's
>just another inducation of the "let everyone else worry about
>my kid" attitude that society seems unwilling to address.

According to the facts, the turntable was 20 feet from a public road,
the plaintiffs lived on property adjoining the defendant's, about 125
yards distant from the turntable.

Plaintiff's children and others of the neighborhood passed along the
public road and by this turntable in their daily travels or sports.

-- 
Eric Brunner Tule Network Services
uucp: uunet!practic!brunner
trying to understand multiprocessing is like having bees live inside your head.

Newsgroups: ba.general
From: king@glacier.Stanford.EDU (Robin King)
Subject: Re: stupid consumers
Organization: Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University, California
Distribution: ba
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 02:00:41 GMT

(Eric Perozziello) writes:
>Ignoring the rude attitude of your request, In fact, I do have the data.
>The data was compiled by a private firm, and they 
>logged such things as "passenger fatalities per flight", and "passenger
>fatalities per passenger carried".  the Japanese airlines were
>almost four times higher (worse) in each catagory.
>
>>Henry Mensch:
>>how do you know this?  substantiate your statements.
>>

	I saw the same article.  US companies were way ahead
	of the Japanese in safety.  


Newsgroups: ba.general
From: king@glacier.Stanford.EDU (Robin King)
Subject: Re: stupid consumers
Organization: Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University, California
Distribution: ba
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 01:37:59 GMT

glo@dvlseq.us.oracle.com (George Lo) writes:
>
>If you have flown on any Asian airlines, Cathay, SIA, JAL, you
>probably would not want to fly on any American airlines anymore
>unless they are significantly cheaper.  The services are just
>completely different.

	Yes, perhaps they are, but I'll give my money to an American 
	company, thank you. I don't care whether I get some flight 
	attendant fawning all over me, I just want to get there safely,
	on time (reasonably), and with luggage.

	But since I HAVEN'T flown any Asian airline, what exactly
	is the big difference that would make one send their
	dollars to Japan?  What is so great?  I'm interested.

	Robin

Xref: sparky ba.general:4435 misc.kids:25904 misc.legal:18579
From: pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai)
Newsgroups: ba.general,misc.kids,misc.legal
Subject: Re: Attractive Nuisance
Date: 13 Oct 92 05:14:23 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

In article <1bcsrvINNhdt@smaug.West.Sun.COM> dab@ism.isc.com (Dave Butterfield) writes:
>Really?  Can you cite a court opinion stating that parents were
>not lax in their parental duties under such circumstances?

I think the turntable case is a pretty good example.

-- 
My opinions are my own.
Happy owner of a new Mitsubishi Expo.
From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Newsgroups: ba.general
Subject: Re: Attractive Nuisance
Date: 13 Oct 92 17:47:36 GMT
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting

In article 8bBb02A3258o01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com, tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Terry Carroll) writes:
>
>If your parents let you run around unaccompanied in a neighborhood with 
>unknown dangers at an age when you were incapable of comprehending them, it 
>sounds like they were lax in their parental duties.

I hate to point out the obvious, but if the dangers are unknown, what do you 
expect the parents to do?  Protect their children from dangers which they aren't 
aware of?

>
>Terry Carroll - tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com - 408/992-2152
>The opinions presented above are not necessarily those of a sound mind.

Well, ...



---
Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141
Newsgroups: ba.general
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: Threats and Name-calling
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 03:48:14 GMT

king@glacier.Stanford.EDU (Robin King) wrote: 
->	Lefty and Henry:  Your postings are disgraceful.  No one is 
->	expected to remember every source/author/title off the top of 
->	their head and you have NO right to call someone a liar for 
->	failing to do so.

i have not called "lefty" a liar, but i will call you a butthead:
"robin, you're a butthead." 

this isn't a church; it's the net ... people who make points should be
prepared to back them up.  saying "i saw a non-specific article a few
months ago in a doctor's office" is not the basis for a conclusion.

->	YOU haven't come up with any solid references about Japanese
->	airlines being as safe as US ones, yet you "know" they are.  

i said nothing of the sort.  

->	I support Eric P's statement about safety because *I SAW* the 
->	same study he did.

then how come *you* can't substantiate his argument?

->      ... YOU have seen nothing written in favor of 
->	YOUR opinion, you've offered NO substantiation (your criteria 
->	for being a labelled liar), yet you call OTHER people LIARS?   

once again: i've said nothing of the sort.   you might read for
content next time ... you seem to have a lot of emotion invested in
this issue ... 

->	PEOPLE, IF YOU'RE TOO IMMATURE OR OTHERWISE INCAPABLE OF
->	BEHAVING CIVILLY THEN DON'T READ THE NET.

you seem to need your own medicine.

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
From: rah@public.BTR.COM (Richard A Hyde  rah@btr.com)
Newsgroups: ba.general
Subject: Re: East Bay Regional Parks/dog restrictions
Date: 10 Oct 92 03:02:30 GMT
Organization: BTR Public Access UNIX, MtnView CA. For info contact: info@BTR.COM

In article <1992Oct9.212748.1725@telebit.com> brunner@telebit.com (Eric Brunner) writes:
|In article <8101@public.BTR.COM> rah@public.BTR.COM (Richard A Hyde  rah@btr.com) writes:
|
|>I talk to my neighbors all the time?  Don't you?  Don't you work *together*
|>to make the neighborhood a safe, comfortable place?  Why not??
|>
|>Sorry, Phil, this isn't aimed at you personally.. your posting was just
|>the last in a long series that triggerd the outburst  :-)
|
|Well Rick, you probably should have aimed at me personally. Keep in mind
|that your friendly local property owner may take the position that his/her
|use of the property superceedes his/her obligations towards you...

Eric, I *never* aim at personalities.  net.discussions are on much to high
a plane for that!   :-)

|Let me see, a shitload of toxic nuclear dioxin sprinkled on the soil -- that
|should do for a fairly hard to apprehend "risk" for the trespassser, ignoring
|statutes concerning particular forms of littering, and a bit of decorative
|sculpture which looks remarkably like a playground slide. We now add the
|random trespass, perhaps by a person incapable of forming intent (I really
|liked the smoking infant carried by the dog)... see any liability? Do you
|really think you should displace the property owner from the minor expense
|of moving every speck of dirt to some salt dome in the south west? 
|

I think the discussion is about where each of us draw the line on
responsibility and culpability.  Current law isn't an issue.. it just
is what it is.  Whether the current law is *right* is a point of discussion.
"Right" is different for each of us, and debating those differences is
the whole point of this thread (I hope  :-)

For me, malicious intent is clearly bad.

Nuclear dioxin?  Well, we would have to know more about the background
of the situation?  Was the dumping with foreknowledge of the danger?
Was it fenced?  If not fenced, were neighbors apprised of the danger?
If they were, was it reasonable to expect them to keep their children out?

What does reasonable mean?  *That* is the point of the discussion.

I, personally, believe that product liability has gotten way out of
hand.  How do we get people to  recognize that they have to put more
effort in taking care of themselves and their children then society
does?  I don't know.



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|   Richard Hyde  |  RaH@btr.com  |    This space intentionally left blank   |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky ba.general:4271 misc.kids:25453 misc.legal:18264
From: dab@ism.isc.com (Dave Butterfield)
Newsgroups: ba.general,misc.kids,misc.legal
Subject: Re: East Bay Regional Parks/dog restrictions
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:51:11 GMT
Organization: x
NNTP-Posting-Host: change

lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
>>=>>>Exactly to whom is it the worth the cost of a fence to put the
>>=>>>fence around Mr. Sohl's swimming pool?  Let that person speak up.
>
>    How explicit an answer would you like?

The name of someone who considers having a fence around Mr. Sohl's
swimming pool worthwhile enough to pay the cost would be satisfactory.
-- 
          Magic is the art of assuming a role strongly enough
          that the Universe falls into the complementary role.
Newsgroups: ba.general,misc.kids,misc.legal