HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 08:14:42 -0400
From:         Rick George <RIGEORGE@VASSAR.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Zoe Baird

Welcome back, Joe.

Not only did Christine Todd Whitman, the person who almost beat Bill
Bradley in 1990, confess to having employed two illegal aliens for almost
four years (and she did not pay taxes on them), but her expected opponent
in the G.O.P. gubernatorial primary, Cary Edwards has also admitted
that he had employed an illegal alien for about 18 months while he was
the Attorney General of New Jersey (and did not pay taxes either).

Whitman admitted her actions, which forced Edwards to admit his.  After
Whitman's announcement on Friday, a reporter asked an Edwards spokesman
if Edwards had employed illegal workers.  That spokesman said the Edwards
had not.  But then late Friday night, Edwards issued a statement admitting
that he had employed the illegal alien in 1989 and 1990.

It will be interesting to see, given the public outcry at Baird, how
the New Jersey voters respond to these admissions.  The Republican primary
in NJ is on June 8.

I wonder how many other politicians will confess to having employed illegal
workers.

...Rick
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 00:14:34 -0400
From:         The Integral Differential <DEMON@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Further comments on Iraq ...
Comments: To: POLITICS@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU

>Jonathan says:
>
>>uhh, I don't think so.  By 'tracking', these units are in fact turning
>>on their radar.  With their radar turned on, it is a simple matter to
>>push a button and launch missles.  You don't launch missles until your
>>radar is on.  These planes are only acting in self-defense.
>
>If the US is ever held to account for its numerous war crimes, and the UN

        Which would be?

Brett'
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 00:58:11 -0500
From:         MCW001@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU
Subject:      Re: Bushwhacking Saddam
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

        Just to mention it Brett'... It was Bob Simon who was captured near
the Saudi/Kuwaiti border, suspiciously soon after he had, for all intents
and purposes, called a detatchment of Saudi Soldiers craven cowards
for their quick retreat from their positions after an Iraqui raid...
        BTW, not all citizensof an agressor state can rightly be called
aggressors themselves...esp. folks in a country run like Iraq.

                                Travlr
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 08:53:48 CST
From:         fred <CCHILDER@UNMCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      honest question seeks honest answer

The military brass and several congress critters, including those with
combat experience, have said that integrating gays into the military
will not work.

My question is: If the anti-gay bias is so strong in america, why aren't
non-military types joining the fray and saying "If they're not good
enough for the military, they're not good enough for the rest of us"?

When I was of draft age, I knew a number of people who were told "join
the services or go to jail". Are we still using the military as an
alternative to prison?

fred
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:24:39 EST
From:         Daniel David Benson <bensonda@STUDENT.MSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Uncl: Business Optimism
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu
              Differential" at Jan 25, 93 5:32 pm

>
> >That's a tough one. It will depend a lot on the monetary policy the Fed goes
> >with from this point along with the global economic climate (remember Japan
> >and its little "problem" with it's own economy?).  It would almost be easier
to
> >predict the weather for January 25th 1994.
> >
> >-Dan
>
>         Unseasonably warm and sunny.
>
> Brett'
> (Thankful that *where* isn't specified :)
>
Here are some more puzzlers. How many facelifts will Cher have this year? How
many intelligent statement will Rush make this year (trick question)? How many
"smart" bombs will it take to make Saddam go away? Will there be a made for TV
miniseries on the Gulf war (The Winds of [the Gulf] War or George and Saddam - A
Love story)?

-Dan
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 02:12:45 EST
From:         Daniel David Benson <bensonda@STUDENT.MSU.EDU>
Subject:      Sounds
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu
              "JDUTTON@YORKVM1.BITNET" at Jan 27, 93 12:54 am

"A man is a God in ruins. When men are innocent, life shall be long, and shall
pass into the immortal as gently as we awake from our dreams" HDT

As a political science major and a future grad student at U Washington, I am
extremely disenchanted with what I know. It seems from all the hypocracy of the
system we deal with (the best system to date I might add) that human nature
never improves and that tyranny just seems to be replaced by yet more subtle
" kinder and gentler" forms. I used to be a Republican. I opened my eyes and
became a Democrat. I opened my eyes again and now I am nothing. BOTH parties
are hypocritical along with their supporters which attempt toc justify
everything when it is plain and obvious to see for all what has really
transpired. Why have I chosen to make this field my life's work? To better
mankind? To understand? Obviously man is going nowhere fast as America, the
worlds "greatest, most free, rights oriented" country has proven time and time
again. I'm tired of defending US actions. Yet who else even comes close to
acting "right"? Got me. Comments?

-Dan
From: dreitman@oregon.uoregon.edu (Daniel R. Reitman, Attorney to Be)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re:      Re: Health Care Reform
Date: 28 Jan 1993 09:21 PST
Organization: University of Oregon
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: oregon.uoregon.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <93027.005421JDUTTON@YORKVM1.BITNET>,    
     JDUTTON@YORKVM1.BITNET writes...
>I'm not completely familiar with govt process and appointments in the
>US, but shouldn't the question be not what position Ms Clinton is best
>qualified, but rather who is the most qualified individual for the position.
>While I've read that she is a very good lawyer, wouldn't it be in the best
>best interest of the public good that this job be given to one of the
>country's top lawyers?  In a country that is stuffed full of lawyers, the
>law of large numbers would dictate that she isn't one of them.

Actually, she has long been recognized as one of the best.  Many stories during
the campaign pointed out that the jury of her peers put her in the top 100.

>. . . . 


							Dan, ad nauseum
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 08:29:12 -0500
From:         KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU
Subject:      Re: Health Care Reform

Hi, NINAR Kerry:

>Back when I was a gullible liberal taking PC history, I was told
>that America was an evil place because 50-something of the
>Founding fathers were lawyers.

Just out of curiosity -- where and when was this?  I ask because I took
American History at U.C. Berkeley in 1977 from a pretty liberal kinda guy,
and I was never taught this.

>So now, with the new PC president elected to "change" everything
>and make America a wonderful multicultural place to live,
>where everyone is equal, we have an administration full of.....
>
>LAWYERS??

Well, can't lawyers come from different cultural backgrounds?  Seriously --
to the extent that an administration has to deal with the law, then it
kinda makes sense to have lawyers.  But I can't help but think it would be
nice to have, say, an educator (a real one -- the kind that once taught in
the trenches for a living) as education secretary, etc.

>Shouldn't we be just a wee bit annoyed about that?

I don't necessarily get annoyed that they're lawyers.  I mostly worry when
someone doesn't have the relevant expertise for the job.

Kerry
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 09:51:27 -0400
From:         The Integral Differential <DEMON@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Reagan's legacy and the politics of the SC
Comments: To: POLITICS@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU

>On what grounds is the War Powers Act unconstitutional? Without a ruling
>saying such from the SC, what do you base your assertion upon? VMS

        Should have slipped an (IMO) in there.  Of course now that Jay is back
I can't use channeling as an excuse :).

        IMO, the WPA is unconstitutional because it interferes with the CinC
role of the president.  Analogous to a legislative veto of the prez's CinC
powers.  Since the prez is the *the* CinC, there are no constitutionally
correct :) ways to overrule him in that arena.

        The last thing we need is someone like Pat Schroeder trying to judge
military strategy.

        (She of "small carriers" ideas.  As in the kind of carrier that proved
ineffective in fleet defense against a third world power in the Falklands.)

Brett'
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 10:54:36 EDT
From:         BRYAMI@MOREKYPR.BITNET
Subject:      Debate Transcripts

Please excuse my intrusion.  I am looking for transcripts of the
presidential debates so I can study them.  Any help is greatly
appreciated...
                        Thank-you...

                        Mike Bryant
                        BRYAMI@MOREKYPR.BITNET
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Date:         Sun, 24 Jan 1993 00:31:23 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Rush

Yo, Rush-Busters:

That was nice talk coming from a supposedly college-educated computer-
literate individual.  (You eat with that mouth?  You kiss your mother
with that mouth?  Yeesh!)

The green-eyed monster is uglier than Hillary's hat these days.

When you sit on top the NYT Best Seller list for 17 straight weeks and
have an audience of over ten million people, call me.  We'll talk.

Until then, leave a message with my girl.  And don't forget to pick up
the dry cleaning.  And, oh yes.  I almost forgot.  Clean the cage.  Your
mother's coming over.

--NINAR Kerry
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:47:48 EST
From:         Robert Kelly <rkelly@GRITS.VALDOSTA.PEACHNET.EDU>
Subject:      Military Point of view
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu
Comments: cc: cug@catfish.BITNET

Once again it is necessary that I must pick up my pen!(EKO)

        As a former member of our armed forces I can tel you that the idea is a
 freightning thought.  Yet it is an equally scary thought of having legalize
 discrimination.

"This court is meant to make all equal before the law, it is were those without
 are forever defended."
                        -Justice Thurgood Marshal 1909-1993

Our constitution is not there just to defend the rights of the majority.  The
 constitution has a higher cause of defending the rights of the minority.  I
 feel like a hypocrite when I use to say that gays should not be allowed in the
 military.  I do not like feeling like a hypocrite.  Yet I remember the days of
 doing pushups naked in the community showers at basic training.  It bothers me
 to think that some of the guys there could have been gay.  As time passed I got
 accustomed to changing uniforms in zulu drills in front of the women of my
 platoon.  If the military could adapt to women and African Americans in the
 military they can also adapt to homosexuals.  If you would remember history
 there were people who said that if African Americans were allowed in the
 military they would destroy the greatest fighting force in America.  When
 Eisenhower lifted the ban he was hated but then he went down as one of the
 greatest Presidents in history.  We find ourselves at the same point in
 history.  It is unpopular it i

"What is popular is not always right,  What is right is not always popular!"

Nick Kelly
Valdosta State College(TO BE UNIVERSITY)
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:31:33 EST
From:         K=A*T <MEC038@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: William Jefferson Clinton -- anagram
              25 Jan 1993 00:16:17 -0400 from <DEMON@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU>

On Mon, 25 Jan 1993 00:16:17 -0400 The Integral Differential said:

>        ........................  Every cut in the capital gains tax rate has
>caused an increase in the revenues.
>
>Brett'

So would every INCREASE in the capital gains tax rate.

--KAT
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Date:         Sat, 23 Jan 1993 22:49:55 -0700
From:         Dom Maddalone <DMADDALONE@UH01.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Rush
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET> writes:
> Yo, Rush-Busters:
>
> That was nice talk coming from a supposedly college-educated computer-
> literate individual.  (You eat with that mouth?  You kiss your mother
> with that mouth?  Yeesh!)

    You do not have to college educated to know that what Limbaugh is selling
isn't worth half the coin of the realm.  Please, I have a hard enough time
that Rush fans have mothers.  So much for play ground rhetoric.

> The green-eyed monster is uglier than Hillary's hat these days.
>
> When you sit on top the NYT Best Seller list for 17 straight weeks and
> have an audience of over ten million people, call me.  We'll talk.

    The _National Enquierer_, Geraldo, and other sorted sources receive
populous response.  So?

> Until then, leave a message with my girl.  And don't forget to pick up
> the dry cleaning.  And, oh yes.  I almost forgot.  Clean the cage.  Your
> mother's coming over.

    What?  Nothing original.  Only what is heard on play grounds?  Seriously,
I expected more from an Rush fan.  Leave me your girl's number.  She'll be
mine within the week.

    Dom Maddalone, dmaddalone@uh01.colorado.edu
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 07:41:44 EST
From:         K=A*T <MEC038@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Playing House

Upon leaving office, ex-presidents of the US are
required to pick ONE residence as thier main residence
for the purpose of yearlong security.

So says our local newspaper... (Warning: this buzz word,
i.e. LOCAL newspaper might bring MacPhil back.)

Guess which residence Mr. Bush chose.

Guess again.  :-)

--KAT
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:26:03 EST
From:         Daniel David Benson <bensonda@STUDENT.MSU.EDU>
Subject:      retire Zoe
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu
              at Jan 25, 93 5:10 pm

Let's retire the Zoe Baird business. The woman is gone - G-O-N-E. It can be
mulled over forever but it won't change anything. There are better topics to
clutter up my e-mail message list with (I'm tired of hitting delete every time
I see that womans name - it's giving me a Zoe complex. I'm liable to hear that
name in a restraunt or other public place and have to be taken away for a
little ol' thorazine supplement).

-Dan
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:32:00 -0400
From:         The Integral Differential <DEMON@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Homosexuals in the Military
Comments: To: POLITICS@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU

>   uh, brett, i agree with you, except for one point. what do we do
>while the prejudices remain? do we accept a serious, perhaps very
>serious, loss of morale and experienced personnel to accommodate a
>few people who demand that the protector of this nation's freedom
>radically change to suit *them*?

        For one thing, we don't ignore it.  It would help to set up groups
where (for example) everyone relates some story or experience, etc, then after
all have discussed similar experiences sexual orientation is revealed.
        Our congress teacher did this for politics, splitting us up into
dems/reps (we had earlier filled out political info forms for our roles).
Everyone was amazed that they couldn't peg people to a particular label.
Personally, the Dems all thought I was a Rep and the Reps all thought I was a
Dem.  Kinda like here on the net :)

>  this country has an all-volunteer military. if a gay person wishes
>to join, there is a simple way to do so; lie. lying to enter the
>service is a long and honorable tradition. women joined the union
>army in disguise (maybe the confederate army, too) and lots of men
>lied about their age to enlist, my own father among them.

        Perpetuating the myth (that gays are disruptive) would only hurt
matters.  They need to be able to say "here I am, here I have always been"
without fear of losing their job.

>  it seems to me that what the advocates of overturning the ban want
>is not toleration, but official approval of homosexuality. no thanks.
>rtf

        As Libertarians have to say (frequently): not objecting to is not the
same thing as condoning.

Brett'
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 09:32:05 GMT
From:         Dunstan_Vavasour <dunstan@GEC-EPL.CO.UK>
Subject:      Well fancy that
Comments: To: politics@ohstvma.acs.ohio-state.edu

Sam:
[stuff deleted]
>Anyway, the way you express yourself is not perfect either.
>You are also not a native speaker, as I can tell.
[stuff deleted]

Well, I've been called a lot of things in my time, but never a non
native English speaker ! I can provide documentary evidence to show
that my family has lived in England for 800 years.

Dunstan
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 11:31:00 EST
From:         "Toby Fenwick, Middlebury College" <TFENWICK@MIDD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Uncl: Business Optimism

Brett;

        Since you are going to play a numbers game, I will have a shot.
Non-Farm unemployment in the United States in 1/1994? I reckon it will 6.8-7.2%
of the population.

Toby
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 21:23:06 -0500
From:         JCOCURUL@DREW.BITNET
Subject:      Re: two religion points
Comments: To: politics@ohstvma.bitnet

In article <tfilt464337@drew.edu>, TI0PSR1@NIU.BITNET writes:
> Joe,
>
> Doing a little research on secular humanism inthe Supreme Court, but
> if you ever hear anything about that case (around 1960, White), I
> would like to know which one it is.
> It's smelling like a draft case at this point, but please let me know
> if you come across anything.
>
>                             P.S.Ruckman,Jr.
>
  Good luck on your research, I'll look into it myself tomorrow.
Perhaps you think it was for conscientious objection?  I guess it's
possible, but I think that was covered in a different case.

It seems we have been forgetting something in our discussion of Stone
v. Graham.  I looked up the case and it seems that what was at issue
was a Kentucky state law that required the hanging of the ten
commandments in the classroom -- this makes it a lot different for
state action is sure present now.  Oral argument of some defense by
KY would have been helpful, but it shows why the SC was so suspicious.
It also said that if the Ten Commandments was used in some secular
context, like law or the study of religion, it would have be
permissible.  Alone it surely does look like a religious symbol, but
fairness required oral argument in my opinion.

   -Joe
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:49:00 EST
From:         linda <SABOE@VUVAXCOM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Ms. perception

>first game is.  And I was hoping *you* had a good falafel recipe -- I cheat
>and use packaged mixes.  Oh, and on the spelling thing -- near as I can

okey dokey, i'll go digging and then experiment on a recipe. (as if a bunch
of philosophers would be able to tell the difference btwn a mix and the real
thing....but i am obsessive about stuff so....)

>tell, falafel has as many alternate spellings as Hannukah :)

i love it when *everybody* is right. plus, it fosters creativity to have an
open spelling policy, dontchathink?

-linda

>Kerry
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 15:16:11 -0400
From:         The Integral Differential <DEMON@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: where liese is; or, i once was lost, but now am found
Comments: To: POLITICS@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU

>
>Have you read _Fatherland_ and if so, what'd you think?
>
>I found it interesting to say the least.  I didn't think that its
>the best-written book of the decade, but the intricasy, etc was
>fascinating.  I did like the way Stalin was the one denounced--
>it sort of worked along the lines that the one who loses the war
>is always made out to look like the devil, while the winner always
>is the angel.
>
>jbc

        Haven't seen it.  Who wrote it?  Most of the stories I've seen are
either a collection of "what if" type stories, or the Germany wins scenario is
a subplot to a future alternate history.

Brett'
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