HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu (Michael Feldman)
Subject: Re: Who uses Ada??
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 05:00:09 GMT

In article <SRCTRAN.92Nov8115517@world.std.com> srctran@world.std.com (Gregory Aharonian) writes:
>   With regard to Dr. Feldman's list of use of Ada in non-mandated areas,
>his parody of comparative analysis was perfect.  ANyone familiar with the
>demographics of software in the real world will realize that even a list of
>the use of Lisp and Prolog commercial applications, and probably Forth also,
>exceeds the list and LOC counts for the Ada list.  Cheers, cheers for such
>a good parody !!!!
>
Well, the LOC counts may be wrong, but the list of projects is - for better
or worse - pretty correct. I'm glad you find humor in it, Greg, but it was
unintended...

I have gotten some private mail with a few more projects, and will fix the
list up shortly. You'll like it even better then :-)

Mike Feldman
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael B. Feldman
co-chair, SIGAda Education Committee

Professor, Dept. of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
School of Engineering and Applied Science
The George Washington University
Washington, DC 20052 USA
(202) 994-5253 (voice)
(202) 994-5296 (fax)
mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu (Internet)

"Americans wants the fruits of patience -- and they want them now."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: robichau@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Paul Robichaux)
Subject: Re: Who uses Ada??
Reply-To: robichau@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov
Organization: New Technology, Inc.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 18:24:44 GMT

In <EMERY.92Nov6111557@Dr_No.mitre.org> emery@Dr_No.mitre.org (David Emery) writes:

>>the estimated difference in lifecycle cost (i.e. the total delta over
>>the estimated 30-year life of a particular system) was $45 million
>>HIGHER if Ada was the development language?

>I'd very much like to see a reference/citation for this, as it flies
>in the face of both deeply held religious beliefs and also most of the
>available data (e.g.  Reifer studies, AFATDS preliminary data, etc).

The prediction was for a somewhat higher startup cost (including
retraining, buying expensive Ada compilers (as though there were any
other kind), and so on), and I suspect what happened is what you
wrote: the higher startup cost was iterated over the program lifetime.

Of course, I'm sure there are/were other political, and possibly
financial, reasons for not using Ada on this particular project. None
of the ones I've heard make any more sense than the $45 million delta.

-Paul
 employed by, but not speaking for, New Technology, Inc.
 not _even_ employed by NASA
-- 
Paul Robichaux, KD4JZG              | May explode if disposed of improperly.
Mission Software Development Div.   | Printed on recycled phosphors.
New Technology, Inc.		    | ** PGP 2.0 key available on request **
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: rhill@dale.ksc.nasa.gov (Russ Hill)
Subject: WANTED: good ada pretty printer
Organization: NASA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:25:47 GMT


I am looking for a good ada pretty printer
I will post a summary.

please respond with email
thanks



-- 

Russ Hill
rhill@dale.ksc.nasa.gov
(407) 633-3950
From: jordan@warped.pnl.gov (Randy Jordan)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: Re: Who uses Ada??
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:50:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: oracle.1992Nov6.195013.8685
Reply-To: jordan@warped.pnl.gov (Randy Jordan)
Organization: Battelle, Pacific Northwest Laboratory


In article <9110003@hpavla.lf.hp.com>, hawk@hpavla.lf.hp.com (Dave Hawk) writes:
|>Path: pnl-oracle!ogicse!emory!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!scd.hp.com!hpscdm!hplextra!hpcss01!hpwala!hpavla!hawk
|>From: hawk@hpavla.lf.hp.com (Dave Hawk)
|>Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
|>Subject: Re: Who uses Ada??
|>Message-ID: <9110003@hpavla.lf.hp.com>
|>Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 05:02:21 PST
|>Article-I.D.: hpavla.9110003
|>References: <1992Nov3.191829.22803@csusac.csus.edu>
|>Organization: Hewlett-Packard Little Falls Site
|>Lines: 7
|>
|>In article <1992Nov3.191829.22803@csusac.csus.edu> cs13517@athena.ecs.csus.edu writes:
|>>Who uses Ada because they want to, not
|>>because they were told to?
|>>
|>>Kevin Metcalfe
|>
|>How about those of us that want to use Ada, but are told to use C?
|>
--

	I second that, maybe when GNU-Ada comes I can overcome the Cost
	objection.

	"C is it's own virus..."
				ANON.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
	To Thyne Own Self be true...
	                             myne opinions are.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Xref: sparky comp.lang.ada:3269 comp.lang.lisp:2873 comp.lang.c:16459 comp.theory:2406
From: rsn@spl1.spl.loral.com (Richard S Neale)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.lisp,comp.lang.c,comp.theory
Subject: Re: Looking for info on Reverse Engineering tools
Date: 13 Nov 92 14:54:25 GMT
Organization: Loral Software Productivity Laboratory

While at the KBSE-92 Conference I was exposed to the Software Refinery
by Reasoning Systems, 3260 Hillview Av., Palo Alto, CA 94304.  This was
a tool that reverse engineered a given application with output describing
in graphical and report form the structure of the code.  To note, it is
capable of extracting algorithms and language constructs and allow 
transforms which can be brought back out.  That is, it can do language 
translations or restructuring without loss of content.

I hope this helps.

Richard Neale
-- 
with STANDARD_DISCLAIMER;
use  STANDARD_DISCLAIMER;
function MESSAGE (TEXT: in CLEVER_IDEAS) return BETTER_IDEAS is...
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada

In article <1992Nov3.191829.22803@csusac.csus.edu> cs13517@athena.ecs.csus.edu writes:
>Who uses Ada because they want to, not
>because they were told to?
>
>Kevin Metcalfe

How about those of us that want to use Ada, but are told to use C?
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: tne@world.std.com (Thomas N Erickson)
Subject: Re: Help me with Educational Use for Ada on Sparcs
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 15:50:06 GMT

Alsys is also willing to provide extremely favorable conditions for
educational use of Ada, including SPARCstations.

Contact Kathy Ruggiero at (617)270-0030.


Tom Erickson
Alsys



-- 
Tom Erickson
Alsys
tne@world.std.com
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: dennisk@aplcenmp.apl.jhu.edu (Dennis M. Kavanagh)
Subject: UNIX/ADA
Organization: Johns Hopkins Continuing Professional Programs
Distribution: world 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 13:42:38 GMT

My group is looking at implementing a system with both 'C' and ADA on
the same application. This requires that we use sockets or shared memory
for IPC. Any ideas on using sockets tied to an ADA task? Is it possible?
Is it possible to tie a pipe to an ADA task?
We will be using IBM Rs6000. We have not selected a compiler yet, so
that is open. 'Aint computing fun...?

Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: ppc1@cec1.wustl.edu (Peter Pui Tak Chiu)
Subject: ftp
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 14:39:14 GMT

hi there,

is there any ada compiler for DOS available on anonymous ftp sites?

thanx

peter

Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: jgg@evb.com (John Goodsen)
Subject: Re: The Obfuscated Ada Contest (was Re: An admittedly biased ...)
Organization: EVB Software Engineering, Inc.
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 19:11:31 GMT

troj@cwis.unomaha.edu (Kevin Trojanowski) writes:

>
>In the group of people I work with, we have a myriad variety of styles, even
>though we have a published "Ada standard" we're supposed to follow.  One of the
>worst, in my mind, things people are doing in their code is preceding every
>variable name with "The_".  Thus, you have statements assigning to record
>componenets like this:  The_Box.The_Left_Side.The_Color
>
>To me, that's NOT readable.  In addition, it's very annoying to have to type
>when working on the code.  What's wrong with:  Box.Left_Side.Color or something
>similar?
>

Try using "The_" as a prefix ONLY in cases such as parameter names.
It makes the code readable on the procedure call:

       Set_Color ( The_Window => Root_Window,
                   The_Color  => BLUE       );

Using "the_" as a prefix for record field names, local
variables, etc. does nothing for readability, and in fact
confuses the issue as shown above...


>There are also compromises made in the "pass the world" notion.  Some 
>packages do this, some do not -- we had to allow global variables in some
>code, as we're dealing with X-Windows, and thus the Ada code isn't always
>in "control".  X-Callbacks basically force you to use global variables.
>There's a time and a place for everything.  Sometimes, globals are best,
>sometimes passing as parameters is best -- to me, to try to force it into
>rigid rules is a mistake, and produces hard to follow, and hard to maintain
>code.
>
> X-Callbacks basically force you to use global variables.
  ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

X callbacks ? Xt callbacks ?  Motif Callbacks ?

All three provide mechanisms to pass client data.  Using global data
in X windows will only further complicate matters if you ever want 
your software to be Multi-Thread (Ada task) safe...  Possibly you've
just skimmed over the ability to pass client data with callbacks ???


$.02 + impending 50% taxation of the liberal 90's == my $.03 worth :-)

--
John Goodsen                           PCIS Programme
Software Process & Environments        Ada Joint Program Office       
EVB Software Engineering               goodsenj@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu
jgg@evb.com
From: michael.hagerty@nitelog.com (Michael Hagerty) 
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: Incorporation of Fortran
Date: 10 Nov 92 22:12:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Nitelog BBS - Monterey, CA - 408-655-1096
Reply-To: michael.hagerty@nitelog.com (Michael Hagerty) 

On 11-10-92, RUSS JOHNSON wrote to ALL:

RJ> As part of an effort to add new functionality to a large real-time
RJ> embedded Ada system, we wish to incorporate an existing FORTRAN CSCI
RJ> into this system.  Does anyone know of any similar efforts - past,
RJ> present, or planned?

Curious...  I was just reading the Ada-9X proposed annex on numerics the
other day and, viola, there was a FORTRAN (language of the lesser gods)
interface all spec'd out...

Regards, Mikey (michael.hagerty@nitelog.com)

 * JABBER v1.3B1 #B042 * Just got a new car for my wife... Great trade...
                                                                
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: cupak@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com (John J Cupak Jr CCP)
Subject: Re: Incorporation of Fortran CSCI into Ada system
Reply-To: cupak@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com (John J Cupak Jr CCP)
Organization: Lockheed Sanders, Inc.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 13:53:33 GMT


The December 3-7, 1990 Tri-Ada'90 Proceedings included a presentation by Lt. Col. James Ware of the U.S. Marine Corps  on "Integrating Ada with Existing Systems: the ATACC Experience." 

Grumman incorporated 217 KSLOC of existing FORTRAN and Pascal code with COTS and new Ada software. The system was scheduled to fielded in August, 1991. 

You might contact Ware at (703) 640-2232 (last number I had for him in 1990).
--
John J. Cupak, Jr., CCP       Lockheed DECNet: MERVAX::CUPAK
Lockheed Sanders, Inc.        Internet       : cupak@rapnet.sanders.LOCKHEED.COM
95 Canal Street / NCA15-221   CompuServe     : 72411,3176 
Nashua, NH 03061-0868         Telephone      : (603) 885-2134     FAX: 885-8033
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: philippe@telesoft.com (Philippe Collard @pulsar)
Subject: Re: Help me with Educational Use for Ada on Sparcs
Organization: TeleSoft, San Diego, CA, USA
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:48:21 GMT

	TeleSoft offers all its Ada products at a significant
	discount to academic institutions. Please call Serena Vackert
	at (619) 457-2700 (x341) for information on RISCAda, our
	OSF/Motif based development environment for SPARC machines.

	Philippe Collard
	Sr. Marketing Manager, Unix Products
	TeleSoft
	5959 Cornerstone Court
	San Diego, CA 92111
	Tel: (619) 457-2700 (x310)
	email: philippe@telesoft.com
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: robichau@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Paul Robichaux)
Subject: Re: Who uses Ada??
Reply-To: robichau@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov
Organization: New Technology, Inc.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:19:16 GMT

In <9110003@hpavla.lf.hp.com> hawk@hpavla.lf.hp.com (Dave Hawk) writes:

>How about those of us that want to use Ada, but are told to use C?

Amen to that. Would you believe that at one point, the estimated difference
in lifecycle cost (i.e. the total delta over the estimated 30-year
life of a particular system) was $45 million HIGHER if Ada was the
development language?

I didn't believe it either, but it's unfortunately true.

And of course I'm not speaking for NASA or New Technology, Inc.

-Paul
-- 
Paul Robichaux, KD4JZG              | May explode if disposed of improperly.
Mission Software Development Div.   | Printed on recycled phosphors.
New Technology, Inc.		    | ** PGP 2.0 key available on request **
From: adainfo@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu (Michele L. Kee (AdaIC))
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: Re: MIL-STD-1553 interface? *CORRECTION*
Keywords: AdaIC, MIL-STD-1553, AJPO, ATIP
Date: 6 Nov 92 17:20:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: sei.1992Nov6.172005.24521
Organization: Ada Information Clearinghouse

In article <rlk.720991686@amstel> rlk@VisiCom.COM (Bob Kitzberger) writes:
>> I wrote:
>>
>>Recently, someone posted a pointer to some work being done on developing
>>a standardized Ada API interface to the MIL-STD-1553 bus.  I didn't save
>>the pointer...
>
>Here's the scoop:
>
>	It's called the Generic Avionics Data Bus Tool Kit, developed
>	under AJPO's Ada Technology Insertion Program, by the
>	Manned Flight Simulator office of the Naval Air Warfare
>	Center (don't call them, they're trying to get other work done).
>
>	It's supposed to be available at the end of next week on the
>	Ada IC BBS, 1-703-614-0215.  September 1992's Ada IC newsletter
>	included an article on it.
>	
>
>   .Bob.
>----------------
>Bob Kitzberger          VisiCom Laboratories, Inc.
>rlk@visicom.com         10052 Mesa Ridge Court, San Diego CA 92121 USA
>                        +1 619 457 2111    FAX +1 619 457 0888


The MIL-STD-1553 Ada Binding code is *NOT* yet available.  It's going
through the clearance process.  We'll put up an announcement as soon
as it becomes available.

-- 
Ada Information Clearinghouse (AdaIC)		|  IIT Research Institute
703/685-1477, 800/AdaIC-11, FAX 703/685-7019	|  operates the AdaIC for
Internet:  adainfo@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu		|  the Ada Joint Program
CompuServe:  70312,3303				|  Office (AJPO).
Xref: sparky comp.lang.ada:3251 comp.object:4190
From: mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu (Michael Feldman)
Subject: Re: Who uses Ada??
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 03:57:06 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.015812.17210@fcom.cc.utah.edu> val@news.ccutah.edu (Val Kartchner) writes:

[stuff deleted]
>
>I consider it telling that it is endorsed (by mandate) by an organization
>which can't balance it's collective checkbook (and many individual ones).

Someday over a cup of coffee, we can talk about how stuff gets into law
in this town. It ain't what you learned in civics class, for sure.

Mike Feldman
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael B. Feldman
co-chair, SIGAda Education Committee

Professor, Dept. of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
School of Engineering and Applied Science
The George Washington University
Washington, DC 20052 USA
(202) 994-5253 (voice)
(202) 994-5296 (fax)
mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu (Internet)

"Americans wants the fruits of patience -- and they want them now."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rlk@VisiCom.COM (Bob Kitzberger)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: Re: Who uses Ada??
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:59:42 GMT

val@news.ccutah.edu (Val Kartchner) writes:

>I prefer to use the right tool for the job.  If that's Ada, then I'll
>use that.  However, many people only know one language and assume that
>that language is best for everything.

This isn't directed at you, Val, but it's related to the sentiment
you express above:

The "right tool for the job" is not the same as "my personal preference".
If both "the right tool for the job" and "personal preference" point to
the same language/toolset, then great.  If not, then you have a decision
to make.  You can tell a hacker from an engineer in how that decision
is made.

The more tools you have experience with, the better equipped you are
to make that decision.  The more problem domains you have experience
with, the better equipped you are, as well.

	.Bob.
----------------
Bob Kitzberger          VisiCom Laboratories, Inc.
rlk@visicom.com         10052 Mesa Ridge Court, San Diego CA 92121 USA
                        +1 619 457 2111    FAX +1 619 457 0888
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: karam@sce.carleton.ca (Gerald Karam)
Subject: TimeBench Contact at TRI-Ada Next Week
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:48:00 GMT

I will be at TRI-Ada in orlando on tuesday/wednesday nov 17/18
(i will actually be in monday but harder to find).

I would be interested in talking to anyone who has been using our
TimeBench tool regarding their experiences; also i would be happy to
chat with anyone regarding the tool and provide info for anaonymous
FTP pickup. i will also bring stuff on diskettes for the truly eager.

contact me by email before sunday nov 15 or leave a message for me on the 
message board at the meeting.

Gerald Karam
--
Gerald Karam           | Even Bart Simpson is a Blue Jay fan. 
karam@sce.carleton.ca  | Gerald's Great Canadian Referendum Question:
Fax: +1 613 788 5727   | Who should be Canada's next Prime Minister?
Ph:  +1 613 788 5749   |  _                     _
From: poncelet@smr.slb.com (Paul Poncelet - SFM - (33)-1-4746-7117)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: Is comp.lang.ada acessible via e-mail only
Date: 6 Nov 92 13:02:34 GMT
Reply-To: poncelet@smr.slb.com
Organization: SMR Montrouge, France.

Does anyone know if this newsgroup can also be accessed by someone who only has
e-mail internet access? I have a colleague working on ADA who does not have
access to Internet news.


Thanks

Paul

Sedco Forex Schlumberger
Montrouge 
France

e-mail: poncelet@sfm.sinet.slb.com
Xref: sparky comp.lang.ada:3239 comp.object:4181
From: rathert@speedy.ada.cci.de (Jochen Rathert)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.windows.x.motif
Subject: STARS Ada OSF/Motif-Binding
Date: 6 Nov 92 10:49:33 GMT
Followup-To: comp.lang.ada
Organization: Competence Center Informatik G.m.b.H.

Hi,

I did some work with the STARS Ada-binding for OSF / Motif v1.1.
There are some mistakes in this binding. If anyone have experience
with this binding, please mail them back to me.

The biggest mistake I've found:
    Some OSF / Motif functions allocate memory and give back a
    pointer. But the Ada-binding doesn't give this pointer to 
    the application and doesn't free itself the allocated memory.
    So no one (can) frees the memory.
    Function: xm_string_get_l_to_r.

Thanks

Jochen Rathert      rathert@speedy.ada.cci.de (Jochen Rathert)
CCI GmbH
4470 Meppen
Germany
From: mark@irvine.com (Mark Schimmel)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: C to Ada translator
Date: 13 Nov 92 02:07:16 GMT
Organization: Irvine Compiler Corp., Irvine, California, USA

Irvine Compiler Corporation (ICC) has agreed to let me release (in
executable form only for now) the C header file to Ada translator
that I've written.  This is a preliminary trial release to get
feed-back on its Ada portability and performance.  It is my hope that
it will be provided in source form soon.  Please be patient.

As an example of how c2ada works, I'm hoping to include an example
that converts X-windows C header files to Ada entirely automatically.
The translation is fast (approximately 6 seconds for all Xlib files on
an HP-9000/710) and (hopefully) 100% complete.  The generated Ada
files should compile using any Ada compiler that supports pragma
INTERFACE (to C) and pragma INTERFACE_NAME.  I'm also including a
"hello world" program which uses the binding.  You will find more
documentation about the implementation details with the release.


RATIONALE

The C programming language enjoys a great deal of popularity thanks to
its free distribution with the Unix operating system and its early
acceptance among the academic community.  Large amounts of useful
software, libraries and algorithms are freely available to C
programmers just for the asking.  I'd like to provide a means of
making this software base easily accessible to Ada programmers as
well.


DISTRIBUTION

Please send me mail if you would like a copy of the translator.  I
will uuencode and send it to you.  Be sure to provide the type of
machine you'd like it to run on (Sparc, Sun-3, PC, SGI, HP, MIPS,
etc.) and the operating system you're using.  I'm not promising to
have a port for your particular target, so be prepared for a "sorry,
its not ready yet" reply.  I am purposely NOT providing the names of
the currently supported hosts because I'm interested in seeing which
systems are being used for Ada development out there in "net-land".
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: jhvh3@fel.tno.nl (Willem Treurniet)
Subject: HOOD
Keywords: OOD, SA, Design
Organization: TNO Physics and Electronics Laboratory
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:07:55 GMT

LS,

is there anyone having some experience with the combination SA(RT)-HOOD-Ada?
I'm especially interested in HOOD experiences (or interesting references).

Please send your response to my by e-mail. Eventually I'll summarize in this
newgroup.

Thanks in advance,

Willem Treurniet
-- 
*******************************************************************************
* Willem Treurniet                                                            *
* TNO Physics and Electronics Laboratory                  Fax: +31 70 3280961 *
* PO Box 96864                                          Phone: +31 70 3264221 *
From: rsimonia@dale.ksc.nasa.gov (Rick Simonian)
Subject: Calling Ada from a non-Ada language
Organization: NASA
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:24:55 GMT


I'm sure that most will consider this to be gross and unwieldy,
but we need to be able to call Ada routines from non-Ada 
languages.  We first want to solve the problem from C; other
languages need to be addressed later.

I would like to know of any experience doing this in a Unix
environment, both where Ada is the main procedure, and where
C (for example) is the main procedure.  I'm aware of the
obvious problems: how to link the executable if Ada is not
the main, how to elaborate the Ada runtime, use of exceptions, 
passing complex structures, how tasking works, and so forth.

Ada provides a reasonable means of calling non-Ada routines,
but you hit a brick wall going the other way.  This problem
needs to be addressed in order to better integrate Ada into
a heterogeneous environment.

Rick Simonian
Harris Space Systems Corp.
simonian@x102a.ess.harris.com