HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: young@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (young.u.huh)
Subject: Re: who has the open mind
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 05:46:02 GMT

From article <1ems59INNqv9@uwm.edu>, by randyd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Randall Elton Ding): 
>[... about Christians telling him to have an "open mind" ...]
>
>I have never really known any other atheists that well.  Maybe I met
>one or two in passing, but just never learned what to do in these
>situations.  Living here in the bible belt, seems like I'm all alone.
>Do you just ignore it and take the abuse, or do you have a fiew snappy
>one liners that'll put them back in their place.

It's a difficult thing to do, when your family is in the church.
The pastor of a local church visited my home unannounced one day with
his wife.  My wife attends that church, and I *used*to*.  After some
general converations, he said, "Let's pray before we leave."  I told 
him, since my wife was not around at the time, "No, that's okay, just 
go ahead."  Then the conversation went as follows (still vivid in my 
memory):

Pastor's wife: "You mean, you don't want to pray?"
Me: "Prayer is a personal communication between you and your God, and
    I could pray to God directly by myself.  So you don't really need 
    to pray for me."
Pastor: "But the Bible says that we should ..."
Me: "You don't know what my concerns are ..."
Pastor: "Why don't you tell me what your concerns are, so that we can
    pray for you?"
Me: "Well, God knows exactly what my concerns are.  He knows everything, 
    right?"
Pastor and his wife: "Yes, he knows everything."
Me: "Since he knows it already, there's no need for you to pray for me."
Pastor's wife: "So, do you have communication with God?"
Me: "You don't need to know that."
Pastor's wife: "Why not?"
Me: "Because, God knows it himself if I communicate with him.  So why do 
    you need to know?"
Pause...  As they were getting up to leave:
Pastor's wife: "You know that I will be praying for you."
Me: "Okay.  You keep doing that.  It's good for you."
Pastor's wife: "It's good for you too.  You know how much your mother
    is praying for you!  Sigh...  Someday, your mother's prayers will
    be answered, and my prayers will be answered."

This is particularly difficult for me, because my wife has very 
strong emotional and social ties with the church.  In addition,
all my relatives are members of the same denomination.  
They're hopelessly hopeful...

Young Huh
yhuh@ihlpe.att.com
Xref: sparky alt.atheism:21608 talk.religion.misc:21480
From: parsons@cis.ksu.edu (Scott S Parish )
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: leave us alone!!!!
Date: 19 Nov 92 17:54:58 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: cygnus.cis.ksu.edu

bx461@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Leo J. Mauler) writes:


>> why on earth, if you're a christian, are you posting on this 
>> board.  maybe you're even subscribed to it, i don't know. 
>> but do atheists spend their spare time posting on christian ...
>> stop trying to convert. 
>> get a hobby. 
>> stop posting on this damn board!!!

[...]
>I find the occasional posts from Christians to be refreshing
>glimpses of the ignorant, closed-minded, fanatical, intolerant,
>and incompetent Xian madness I left behind when I became an
>agnostic.  I also think that it reinforces other atheists and
>agnostics viewpoints, like exercise strengthens the body or
>debate strengthens the wit.

I'm glad to see that we view each other in similar ways.  Though
I wouldn't go so far as to insult you by calling you "ignorant, closed-
minded, fanatical, intolerant, and incompetent."  This group also
seems to have the same effect of strengthening the beliefs of Christians.
So, in the end, it looks like we just re-enforcing each others positions.
 
-- 
Scott Parish                |  The Truth is still the Truth      |  John 14:6
parsons@cygnus.cis.ksu.edu  |  even if you choose to ignore it.  |
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 12:17:42 EST
From: John A. Johnson <J5J@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Help (OoBEs)

In article <62129@mimsy.umd.edu>, mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate) says:
>
>Richard Griffith writes:
>
>>Warning pure conjecture follows!!
>>Anyone here involved in research on OOB experiences.
>
>It sure is.
>
>>How does the OOB experience sound as the after images of hitting the reset
>>button on the brain.
>
>It sounds lousy.
>
>I once had a grand mal seizure, which is the closest thing the brain has to
>a computer system crash.  I simply woke up in the hallway (surrounded by a
>crowd of very worried people).  No visions, nothing at all.  I just woke up,
>exactly like waking up in the morning.  This is typical of people who have
>had such seizures.
>
Well, this explains a lot, actually.  Michael Persinger of Laurentian
University indicates that temporal lobe syndrome underlies religiosity *and*
mystical experiences such as oobe.  Persons who suffer from epileptic
seizures often report the same symptoms as those who have temporal lobe
transients.
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Help (OoBEs)
From: kmagnacca@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 17 Nov 92 12:40:29 EST
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <62129@mimsy.umd.edu>, mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate) writes:
> Richard Griffith writes:
> 
> I once had a grand mal seizure, which is the closest thing the brain has to
> a computer system crash.  I simply woke up in the hallway (surrounded by a
> crowd of very worried people).  No visions, nothing at all.  I just woke up,
> exactly like waking up in the morning.  This is typical of people who have
> had such seizures.

   I have epilepsy (temporal lobe/absence seizures); for about 
eight years I had the same experience (ie nothing), but in the
three seizures I have had since last year I have had sort of 
a dream/OOBE.  Not only that, it is always the same one, of me
slumped in the corner of a room; every few minutes a man and a 
woman come up to me and taunt me (I don't know how they do this
because there is no sound), but I can't get up.  After a while
they stop coming and a while after that I manage to get up and
the surroundings blur into the real world again.  I wonder if 
this "OOBE center" that Michelle was talking about was located 
in the temporal lobe.

Karl
------
"Find a great ideal, a great purpose, marry it, and raise a family."
					 --Negativland, "U2"
Newsgroups: alt.pcnews,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
From: laug@fraser.sfu.ca (Christopher Lau)
Subject: Re: Can't buy me SIMM's - no no no, no (Again!)
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:54:10 GMT

sct2m@Virginia.EDU (Sean Christopher Timm) writes:

>I have some 256K X 9 SIMMS which I took out when I upgraded my
>system from 2M to 4M.  I anyone is looking for some I will sell
>mine to them.  I have 8 SIMMS.

  If you are really interested in selling your simms then you should post
this article to one of the "wanted" newsgroups like "comp.sys.ibm.wanted" or
something like that.
From: toddy@uni-paderborn.de (Thomas Rose)
Newsgroups: alt.pcnews
Subject: Giga Byte Streamer Problem
Date: 22 Nov 1992 13:20:28 GMT
Organization: Uni-GH Paderborn, Germany
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: greco.uni-paderborn.de

Hi !

I've a problem. I like to use the Streamer GiGa 1200 (Giga Tape Corp) with
my Adaptec 1542 B. The Streamer should manage 1.2 GB Bakups onto a
120 min DAT Tape.

We only came up to 600 MB (Data Transfer Rate 6 MB/min). Where is the
Problem. Which Software could manage this ???

We tried NOVA, and Sytos. Are there better Programs ? Does anybody
know good parameters for NOVA Backup with such DAT Streamers ?              

We also have no manuals for the Streamer ! Is there anybody, who has worked
with it up to now ?


       Please answer via elm  toddy@uni-paderborn.de

                Thomas Rose

                Uni Paderborn
From: AK6@vm.urz.uni-heidelberg.de
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
Subject: wetzrillen/rundna(e)pfchen
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:20:30 GMT
Organization: University of Heidelberg, Germany

Dear Droogies,
 
does anyone know anything about "Wetzrillen" and/or "Rundna(e)pfchen"
at medieval churches in central Europe? Do you know if there exists a
history of architecture where those are discussed? Is it possible that
there are "Wetzrillen" at roman churches in Spain (Salamanca) or elsewhere
in the visigothic area?
Thanks for helping, Rafael.
 
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
From: svissa@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Sirish Vissa)
Subject: Software Question....
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 23:22:13 GMT

Hi All,
   Im sorry if this is the wrong place for this post, but.....
 The question I have is ..
  I heard something about a program that runs under DOS that would let
any idiot (like me ) design a building.  I heard that it would do all
the calculations and tell you if it is possible with the given material
and design etc. It is supposed to calculate the placement of support 
etc.  I was just wondering if any of you have any idea if such a program
exists and what it is called if it exists.
           thanks in advance
                Sirish

-- 
| Sirish 'RACE OR DIE' Vissa                       |--\__            _____  |
| Gen II  Motorsports, India              /-------|     \---\       /  27 | |
| svissa@mentor.cc.purdue.edu        /--\/__/-----------------\_ /--\\----/ |
| sirish@mn.ecn.purdue.edu       _/_|_()_|__|##|_FERRARI______|:|_()_|      |
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
From: Todd Sandrock <@bnr.ca>
Subject: Re: Salk Institute problem
X-Xxdate: Mon, 23 Nov 92 12:36:02 GMT
Organization: Northern Telecom
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:28:17 GMT

In article <churayj-201192144200@morse-college-kstar-node.net.yale.edu>
raymond Chung, churayj@yalevm.edu writes:
>For those of you who haven't heard, there's been a great noise over in La
>Jolla, CA, where one of Lou Kahn's masterpieces (the Salk Institute) is
>located.  Apparently Dr. Salk wants to make an addition to the laboratory
>complex (a design proposal that would drastically alter Kahn's idea), but
>architects across the country are trying desperately to change his mind. 
>It's a funny question: does the man for whom the Institute was built and
>dedicated have the right to alter what many architects have agreed to be
>one of the best architectural spaces in America?  Most of us, I think,
>would quickly say, "no, not in this case."  But this is, of course, a
>special situation; not every building is so wonderful.

I'll preface this by stating what I know of the Institute is from a fuzzy
slide in a dark overheated room, and I may or may not have been asleep at
the time...

1) It would seem to me that Lou made a grave error in not forseeing, or
at least allowing for the institute's future expansion or expandibility.
Unfortunately, the program has changed, and his 'idea' is no longer a
solution to it.

2) Could we make the converse argument that, if there were a building
which many architects agree is one of the ugliest, would the owner have a
right to keep them from demolishing it?  

3) For whom was the institute designed? Who is the client? Does the
building meet his needs? If it doesn't, what would you crackling
electrical revolutionaries suggest?

4) the answer to 3) above is: Concerned electrical crackling
revolutionary preservationist architect(ural critic)s must purchase the
shrine for their religious activities.

Let's not make out Dr. Salk to be the bad guy here. That it is rare that
architects are in agreement is not his fault, nor does it change his
situation.

Todd Sandrock M.Arch
Northern Telecom Ltd.
From: cr@farpoint.tucson.az.us (Clint Ruoho)
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
Subject: Architecture as a career?
Date: 22 Nov 1992 19:33:16 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

I'm a high school student, and I'm considering a career in architecture,
and was hoping somebody out there could answer a few questions I have.

Will I have a good chance of getting a job if I have a degree in
architecture?  What colleges have good architecture programs?  What
is involved in licensing architects?  Do I need a Masters to get
anywhere?  

I've been unable to find answers to these questions.  Please reply via
e-mail, as I don't get alt.architecture here.

Thanks,
cr@farpoint.tucson.az.us
From: allan@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Allan M Sellers)
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
Subject: Ricardo Bofill 1986-present??
Date: 24 Nov 1992 04:38:19 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: allan@csd4.csd.uwm.edu



	Can anyone point me towards any recent articles (or books for that
	matter) that deal with the work of Ricardo Bofill?

	Thanks,

	Allan

	allan@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
From: tsioutsias-dimitris@cs.yale.edu (Dimitris Ioannis Tsioutsias)
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
Subject: Architect Expo in Baltimore ?
Date: 17 Nov 1992 11:04:24 -0500
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: nyaya.systemsz.cs.yale.edu

Hi. Does any of you out there know if there is any architecture/design
exposition/convention taking place this month in Baltimore? Thanks,

->dimitris

PS. Please, try replying by personal. I am not a frequent reader of this
    newsgroup.

Newsgroups: alt.architecture
From: churayj@yalevm.edu (raymond Chung)
Subject: Salk Institute problem
Followup-To: alt.architecture
Organization: overrated Yale University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:27:32 GMT

For those of you who haven't heard, there's been a great noise over in La
Jolla, CA, where one of Lou Kahn's masterpieces (the Salk Institute) is
located.  Apparently Dr. Salk wants to make an addition to the laboratory
complex (a design proposal that would drastically alter Kahn's idea), but
architects across the country are trying desperately to change his mind. 
It's a funny question: does the man for whom the Institute was built and
dedicated have the right to alter what many architects have agreed to be
one of the best architectural spaces in America?  Most of us, I think,
would quickly say, "no, not in this case."  But this is, of course, a
special situation; not every building is so wonderful.

So I would like to (cynically) say that Dr. Salk and the Salk Institute
represent a certain rare moment in the history of architecture, where
architects convene upon a building, not to scorn it but to preserve it. 
When on the attack, words of theory crackle with the electricity of
revolution, but here, on the defensive, they simply pose heartfelt
suggestions to one man who has the legal right to do whatever he pleases.

Maybe the saying applies best here, that loving something is so much more
difficult than hating something, for you must understand the thing you
love.


                                 ? = ! > .
                              raymond  Chung
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
From: janson@athena.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Salk Institute problem
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:15:44 GMT

In article <churayj-201192144200@morse-college-kstar-node.net.yale.edu>, churayj@yalevm.edu (raymond Chung) writes:
|> For those of you who haven't heard, there's been a great noise over in La
|> Jolla, CA, where one of Lou Kahn's masterpieces (the Salk Institute) is
|> located. 
|> ...
|> It's a funny question: does the man for whom the Institute was built and
|> dedicated have the right to alter what many architects have agreed to be
|> one of the best architectural spaces in America?  Most of us, I think,
|> would quickly say, "no, not in this case." 
|> ...

the more accurate question is whether an icon to a conception is to be preserved
when the institution so conceived has now grown and been transformed to a
point where that conception, though perhaps of timeless value, is but a mis-conception.

if it really matters that much, let the AIA buy it.
otherwise it will stand only for failures.
that of a master architect to conceive of a sufficiently robust model for
the institution in question, and that of a tradition of professional
eduaction to equip designers with tools to extend and transform existing
contexts without overwhelming and destroying them...

james.
From: CCS105@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
Subject: To people whom know of old beings...
Date: 20 Nov 92 21:09:29 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: Penn State University

Has there ever been a story about a "bluish color goat lady..or man.."
As in a man, in blue, with a goats face kind of...except the horns stick
kind of straight up...and yes the face is blue too....I heard a story...
and would like to find out what the goat form person is...

smitty
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: jkorpela@lesti.hut.fi (Jukka Korpela)
Subject: Re: Where do the months come from?
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: 17 Nov 92 07:42:54

In article <92319.173218IO20816@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO20816@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Kevin Foss) writes:

   April has two possible origins, possibly after Aphrodite (Greek name
   of Venus),

This hypothesis sounds very strange.

   or (and I like this one better) April being the month where flowers came
   out, e.g. open,  the name comes from the Latin, aperio, to open.

Sounds better, but I think a more common interpretation is that April
"opened" the year. It was originally the first month of the year,
which fact is still reflected by month names like September
(from Latin septem 'seven').

   And May supposedely comes from the the Latin maior, meaning greater,
   and the month was dedicated to Jupiter, (deus maius - greater god).

Sounds odd, both linguistically and otherwise. "Maius" is just the
irregular nominative form of the word; the more regular forms have
the stem maiore-. And Jupiter was not called "greater god" but
"greatest god", i.e. superlative attributes like maximus, optimus,
etc. were used. The usual explanation is that May (Maius) was the
month dedicated to the goddess Maia. (The Latin month names are
actually adjectives, with the implicit noun being mens 'month'.
So May is "Maius (mens)" in Latin, and the -us ending is the normal
masculine ending required by the gender of the word "mens".)

Jukka "Yucca" Korpela
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: 004107w@ace.acadiau.ca (CHRISTOPHER KEITH WILDBORE)
Subject: Nordic Gods
Keywords: Description
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:37:00 GMT

Hi I need info on the Nordic Gods (and Goddesses). What they look like,
where they live, who worshipped them and where, what they ruled over.
                            'til Aquarius ends,
                             Syl-Van Cyr
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: kamata01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Questions ...
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:41:41 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

>>1) What exactly is the myth of the phoenix?  Is the phoenix the same bird that
>>tears out its feathers in order to feed its blood/flesh to its children?  If
>>not, which bird is that?

The pheonix is a mythical bird, often associated with the Native Americans, and
at times called Fire Bird.  The story of the pheonix, for one tribe, is that he
helped create what we now see as their culture.
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
Subject: Re: Questions...
From: kaplan4@husc10.harvard.edu (Merrill Kaplan)
Date: 19 Nov 92 05:38:59 GMT

t00022@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU writes:

>In times of famine, the pelican will tear strips of flesh off her own breast
>to feed her young.  I don't remember if this is all a bunch of baloney or
>if pelicans actually do this.

>                                             Fledermaus, the sometimes
>                                                nature expert
Actually, it's a bunch of hooey.  ;}
It comes from the medieval bestiaries .. didactic animal books written
to demonstrate religious points of doctrine.  The pelican was to be
exemplary of Christian charity and selflessness or some such ...

Merrill

Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: bcushman@bagpipe.reed.edu (Ben Cushman)
Subject: Involuntary Cannibalism
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 12:38:27 GMT


Hello out there--

	I am working on a thesis, and I need a good case of someone
unkowingingly eating someone else to illustrate a point.  Can anyone think
of a good example from mythology-- Greek prefered.  
	I think that Herodotus mentions some such case, but I haven't been
able to find it.

					Ben Cushman
					Reed College
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: mooreej@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Edward J. Moore)
Subject: Re: Involuntary Cannibalism
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:27:15 GMT

bcushman@bagpipe.reed.edu (Ben Cushman) writes:


>Hello out there--

>	I am working on a thesis, and I need a good case of someone
>unkowingingly eating someone else to illustrate a point.  Can anyone think
>of a good example from mythology-- Greek prefered.  
>	I think that Herodotus mentions some such case, but I haven't been
>able to find it.

>					Ben Cushman
>					Reed College

Yeah, there are lots.  One instance is where Tantalus served his son, Pelops,
to the gods at a feast, just to see if they could tell the difference.  Of
course, they did, except for Demeter, who was still grieving over the loss
of Persephone, and failed to see through the trick.  She took a bite out of
his shoulder.  Anyway, to punish Tantalus, he's the one in Hades who is
continually being teased and "tantalized" by the food and water, with no
reward.  Pelops was given his life back, and to replace his shoulder, the
gods gave him one of ivory.  

Hope this help.

Ed.

Xref: sparky alt.mythology:2067 alt.religion.sabaean:74
From: columbus@strident.think.com (Michael Weiss)
Newsgroups: alt.mythology,alt.religion.sabaean
Subject: Re: Where do the months come from?
Date: 19 Nov 92 16:03:18
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: strident.think.com
In-reply-to: eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com's message of Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:43:47 GMT

In article <Bxz2H0.2zA@ddsw1.mcs.com> eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun)
writes: 
   [...]
   In 1582 Pope Gregory ordered that ten days should be left out in thyat year
   after the 4th of October was called the 15th.
   The change was not made in England until 1751, when eleven days were dropped
   and it led to a great deal of discontent among uneducated people who thought
   these days had been stolen from them!
   [...]

Those on a unix system may want to look at the manual page for 'cal' (or
just run cal 1752).
From: IO20816@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Kevin Foss)
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
Subject: Re: where do the months come
Date: 20 Nov 92 03:12:37 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: University of Maine System

In article <1992Nov19.3064.1543@dosgate>, david.meadows@canrem.com (david
meadows) says:
>
>JK4In article <92319.173218IO20816#MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO20816@MAINE.MAINE.EDU
>(Kevin Foss) writes:
>
>JK4   And May supposedely comes from the the Latin maior, meaning greater,
>  4   and the month was dedicated to Jupiter, (deus maius - greater god).
>
>JK4Sounds odd, both linguistically and otherwise. "Maius" is just the
>  4irregular nominative form of the word; the more regular forms have
>  4the stem maiore-. And Jupiter was not called "greater god" but
>  4"greatest god", i.e. superlative attributes like maximus, optimus,
>  4etc. were used. The usual explanation is that May (Maius) was the
>  4month dedicated to the goddess Maia. (The Latin month names are
>  4actually adjectives, with the implicit noun being mens 'month'.
>  4So May is "Maius (mens)" in Latin, and the -us ending is the normal
>  4masculine ending required by the gender of the word "mens".)
>
>This one is definitely correct ... the month, according to ancient
>authors, was named for the daughter of Vulcan, Maia by name and has
>nothing to do with Jupiter.

Well the moral of this story, is that Shipley's "Dictionary of Word Origins"
isn't too reliable (or in this case at least).   Thanks to both of you for
the corrections.

-Kevin
--
  Kevin A. Foss        EMail:1)  io20816@maine.maine.edu
                             2)  kevin_foss@macact.umeres.maine.edu
--
Newsgroups: alt.mythology