HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: weiss872@snake.cs.uidaho.edu (Phil Weiss)
Subject: Step Eight (a few comments)
Organization: none
Reply-To: weiss@leopard.cs.uidaho.edu
Keywords: AA alcoholism
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 19:29:33 GMT
X-Posted-From: potlatch.cs.uidaho.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu


First off, I ought to mention that Step Eight is exactly where I
am right now, so please really try to take anything I say with
a grain of salt, as my sponsor might correct me.  Also, please
make any comments at all; someone may point out something I am
doing wrong.

Also, I am going to comment mainly on Step Eight, even though
"Alcoholics Anonymous" covers them together.

The book tells me that I have already got a list of people I have
likely harmed.  I made it when I took inventory.  My sponsor tells
me that this list is a start.  The people who have been running
around in my head are the most important ones I have to make amends
to, otherwise they will continue to occupy space.

In fact, that's a big part of how I am to decide who on the list
will get an amend and who will not.  Who has power over me?  Which
person in my head is blocking me from being useful?

What my sponsor tells me that I am to do is to make three lists:
People that I know I need to make amends to, people I am not sure
I owe amends, and people I know I do not owe amends.  Afterwards,
we ill sit down and some will be moved to another list.

How can I tell if I owe amends?  I ask myself the question: How much
power over me does this person have?  How much room inside my head
does he/she take?  Those that take up space in my head go on the
"definately" list.

I note with a little humor that the Big Book, in talking about amends,
first talks about making amends to enemies, or in other words, the
people I dislike the most.

My directions when I am to go make amends are that I am to go to the
person and admit my fault, explain that I feel I may have caused
harm, and ask what I may do to make it right.  I am not to discuss
the other's part, nor to criticize them.  If the request is reasonable,
I am to do my utmost in accomplishing it.  If the request is not,
then I do not do it.  (Book says we are not to be "scraping or servile")

Thus I am not to do something as Sherri did.  (I'm not criticizing you,
SHerri; my instructions are just different than yours.)  I cannot send
money to a cleanup fund because I am uncomfortable with my company.
I could do that, if my former boss made that request only.

In any case, I have not yet completed any amend, so Step 9 is pretty
much theory to me now.  However, by the time September has rolled
around, I should have.

Phil.

The spiritual life is not a theory.  WE HAVE TO LIVE IT.
From: amigan@cup.portal.com (R Michael Medwid)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Back From Vacation
Date: 17 Aug 92 03:09:36 GMT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Hi all.

I just got back from a weeks vacation with the family..mom, dad, brother,
his wife, uncle, aunt, two cousins and my girlfriend.  We all stayed
in this small cabin in the northern part of the Adirondak mountains
of New York.  Recovery continues to work strongly and I really enjoyed
myself.  Canoeing, swimming, hiking, singing around the campfire.

I didn't have a chance to get to a meeting while out there..but now
back in California I feel in good spirits and have a sense of having
been refreshed getting out to nature and all.

If there was an uncomfortable part..it was my mom's inquiries as to the
religious affiliations of my girfriends parents.  In mom's recovery she's
become more closely tied with her religion.  I see that I'm uncomfortable
with her labels of people as "good christians" in that it seems to imply
that if you're not getting with the program and getting closer to the
church you're somehow flailing about aimlessly or at least not being all
you could be.  Frankly, it seems bigoted.  But I really didn't know what
to say at the time..with so many people and all.  Writing helps me to
separate my spiritual beliefs from hers and from others in the family.
I felt uncomfortable with her religious zeal.

It feels good to be writing again.

By the way..I'm speaking on Tradition 8 this Friday.  If anyone has any
wisdom to pass along (experience will suffice!) on this tradition..please
post.

Thanks.

-Mike
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: sher@umbc4.umbc.edu (Sherri Crain)
Subject: Re: Step Eight
Keywords: willing amends
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:35:35 GMT

In article <cv9mfmd.dhawk@netcom.com> dhawk@netcom.com (David Hawkins) writes:
>Well, it's August, so it must be Step Eight, eh?
>Step 8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to
>make amends to them all.
>
>What is it with this little word "all" - isn't that a bit extreme?
>
>8-)
>
>later, david

  I can relate!  I remember when I had to make an amends to my old Boss,
at an Exxon station,I had stolen a lot of money from him while working
for him in my drinking years.  Anyway,I thought..the step says willing
to make amends to them *all* not .."unless they're an asshole or their
company spilled tons of oil in Alaska and refused to act quickly!"

  So,what I did was I went to him and told him I stole from him but I
still didn't feel comfortable giving him the money I knew I owed him.
So,I made out 4 money orders for several hundred dollars,the amount we agreed
on,and I sent them to the Alaskan Oil Spill Clean-Up Fund in his name.
He accepted this as payment!  This was the only way I could make the amends
and feel good about it.

-- 

     Lack of planning on your part                 -sher   
doesn't justify an emergency on my part     sher@umbc3.umbc.edu
From: ccb@axemax.zk3.dec.com (Charlie Bennett)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Low blood sugar
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:38:50 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - Nashua, NH

In article <4644@news.duke.edu>, nielsen@math.duke.edu (Jeanne Nielsen) writes:
|> Does anyone out there know anything about recommended food plans for
|> hypoglycemia (a.k.a. low blood sugar)?  I've been reading a book on
|> it that recommends some pretty radical dietary changes.  The book's
|> about 13 years old, and I wondered if anyone knew of anything more
|> recent.
|> 
|> 				-Jeanne
|> 
|> -- 
|> Jeanne Nielsen  (nielsen@math.duke.edu)
|> 
|> "Sex is the mathematics urge sublimated."
|> 		-M. C. Reed

Talk to your doctor. Most HMOs have dieticians on staff who can help
you analyze your current eating habits and recommend appropriate
actions. If you are not in an HMO, ask your doctor to recommend a
licenced dietician/nutritionist. Make sure that any program that is
recommended to you has an intuitive validity and makes sense. Don't
go looking around in the streets for dietary advice.


 
-- 

The opinions expressed are those of the author and do not represent the
opinion of DEC's UNIX Engineering Group or Digital Equipment Corp.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charlie Bennett, UNIX Engineering	| "What the hail is that thing?"
Digital Equipment Corporation		|		- Steve Martin
110 Spitbrook Road, ZKO3-3/X18		| "Everybody needs somebody sometime"
Nashua, NH 03062	603.881.0360	|		- Dean Martin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: drice@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Keith Rice)
Subject: Re: where is everyone????
Organization: University of North Texas
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 02:11:44 GMT

My apologies to you who see this twice.  I accidentally posted with 'local'
distribution. -- Keith

=========================== post follows ====================================

In <drice.714100977@ponder> drice@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Keith Rice) writes:

>In <1992Aug17.181451.13742@cbfsb.cb.att.com> joni@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (joni.dunlap) writes:

>[some text deleted]

>>2. How do I know that I'm doing Gods will?

>>To me the only indication that I'm not doing Gods will is the presence
>>of pain.

>[some text deleted]

>The presence of pain does not necessarily mean that you aren't doing
>God's will.  As I'm sure many will attest, recovery is not a painless
>process.  I have confronted certain family members of their hurtful
>practices more than once and I cannot say that it was painless.  It was
>the right thing to do but I did have pain.

>--
>Keith
>drice@ponder.csci.unt.edu

Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: joannee@sco.COM (Joanne Eglash)
Subject: Mind-reading/gloomin' time
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 22:05:41 GMT


Does anyone else relate to this scenario?

I have a bathroom floor that's buckling and warping ...
it's been getting worse since I moved in.  I was afraid
to call my landlady because I thought she would scream,
yell, carry on, blame me, instantly threaten to withhold
my cleaning deposit -- all sorts of lovely sunshiney thoughts.

So I finally called her... she sounded a bit irritable but
said she'd have someone to look at it. 

Then I panicked because I have a kitten who's been sick and is
at the vet's. And I'm supposed to get the kitten tomorrow and
take her home.  So THEN I envisioned the kitten escaping and/or
getting stepped on and/or infuriating the landlady . 

so I called the vet...after having doomed and gloomed myself into
a depression.  The vet cheerfully said, "No problem! She's a sweet
kitten and we'll just keep her here until you can get her."

Sigh.  Talk about being your own worst enemy!!!  So hey everyone,
say one for me that the floor is easily taken care of and I get to
take sweet kitty on home!
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: moy@acf3.NYU.EDU (Gloria J. Moy,N.DORM C3,(212)9983456,)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Pain
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:16:00 GMT
Organization: New York University


Joanne,

	I'm in a similar situation with my apartment, but I don't have a
leak unless my upstairs neighbors do things like stop up their drain
and have it flood out my apartment or not close the shower curtain....
(Yes,  I have no kitchen, or bathroom ceilings.) Because I am paying
cheap rent, my landlord won't take any actions, but they will foot the
bill for the plumber. Anyhow...when I am up against this and water is
leaking from my ceiling, I am extemely powerless and can only clean up 
the mess and wait for the plumber, My fantasy is to kill these people,
but that would not be right, so I deal with this.
	As far as the attitudes of nina and tracy, thats them...there
isn't alot you can do. No matter what, people always have something to
say and (I know this is hard, and struggle with it too!) just remember
that you handled the situation and yourself in an appropriate manner.
These folks don't know you except that you are having problems with the
plumbing and that you are trying to resolve it. Blow them off, and 
pray for them.

I can't help you out legally. But don't move until you are ready.
Don't let this or them drive you out.

good luck
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: sammy@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (Sammy)
Subject: Re: Low blood sugar
Organization: The Comp Center
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 21:56:36 GMT

In article <4644@news.duke.edu> nielsen@math.duke.edu (Jeanne Nielsen) writes:
>Does anyone out there know anything about recommended food plans for
>hypoglycemia (a.k.a. low blood sugar)?  I've been reading a book on
>it that recommends some pretty radical dietary changes.  The book's
>about 13 years old, and I wondered if anyone knew of anything more
>recent.
>
>				-Jeanne
>
>-- 
>Jeanne Nielsen  (nielsen@math.duke.edu)
>
>"Sex is the mathematics urge sublimated."
>		-M. C. Reed


According to John Robbins in _A Diet for a New America_:

	Hypoglycemia is found wherever people consume significant amounts of
	meats, sugar and fats.

	You may assume that moderating your sugar consumption is the
	chief factor in preventing hypoglycemia; but fat consumption is also
	greatly involved.

He then gets a little cute, but you get the idea:

	If you want to get hypoglycemia, or if you already have it
	and want to make it worse, eat lots of fat, sugar, animal
	protein, dairy products and processed foods. Stay away from
	fresh vegetables and whole grains. Don't believe all that
	stuff you hear about smoking and meat being dangerous to your
	health. And don't worry about getting your vitamins and minerals
	from your food - you can always pop a vitamin pill any time you
	want. There is no need for regular meals, as long as you really
	load up when you have the chance. Remember that coffee is the
	key to mental alertness, and alcohol is the path to relaxation
	and freedom from your fears. And, God forbid, don't exercise.
	Such a regime is guaranteed to make your pancreas forget it
	ever knew health, and alter your consciousness in a decidedly
	unpleasant direction.

John McDougall, in The McDougall Program: 12 Days to Dynamic Health,
recommends a low fat, high complex-carbohydrate vegetarian diet for
improving many medical conditions, including hypoglycemia.



-- 
Sammy=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The enemy of women...is not men, just as the enemy of blacks is not whites.
The enemy is "the tyranny of the dull mind." Carol S. Pearson, _The Hero Within_ 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: sanders@cwis.unomaha.edu (Sue Sanders)
Subject: Re: Pain
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 14:14:50 GMT

My first question after reading your post is do you have a sponsor?  If not
get one.  If you do then work through this with her/him.  As alcoholics we
all tend to be OVER sensitive.  I cant tell you how many times my sponsor
has said to me "How important is it?".  People will hurt my feelings no matter
where I move to.  Running away is seldom a good answer.  (That doesnt mean its
not an option that I've taken from time to time)  

After one particularly bad weekend my sponsor suggested, "Take 15 minutes out
and have a good cry.  Blow your nose.  Wash your face.  Go to a meeting, and
ask someone else how they are."  Here's hoping next weekend is better.

Sue

Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: sher@umbc4.umbc.edu (Sherri Crain)
Subject: Re: Pain
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:48:04 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.203548.20966@sco.com> joannee@sco.COM (Joanne Eglash) writes:
>
Most of the article deleted for sake of time and space...

>Well, now I want to move, but I'm really worried about the money situation.
>I paid a $500 deposit, plus my last month's rent. So if I give notice on
>September 1, I have to stay there for the month of September because it's
>already paid for.  And what if she keeps my entire $500 cleaning deposit,
>even if I clean the whole place, because she says the water damage was
>my fault????

First,let me say I think moving would be an extreme reaction to this
situation.  You want to move because a situation brought up old feelings?
I think Nina could've handled herself a little better in this situation,
but she didn't and that's on her.  If you decide to move because of this,
what are you going to do in similiar situations?  Like,say someone on the
job says something to you that spurs those old "tapes" and thoughts from
your childhood?  Are you going to quit your job?  You could spend a good
deal of your life running from your emotions.

It sounds to me like you handled the situation very well.  You confronted
Nina on what needed to be done and when she said something harsh in response,
you confronted her on that too.  Now,the landlord is sending someone over
to try to fix the problem.  Why move?  Give your emotions time to settle
before you do anything as harsh as moving.  If you still decide it's best
to move,try not to project what is going to happen with the deposit.

>Do I have any legal protection????

I don't know what the laws in your area are,maybe it would be best to call
a lawyer and ask.  You can usually get free advise if you call any law office.

Good Luck!

-- 

     Lack of planning on your part                 -sher   
doesn't justify an emergency on my part     sher@umbc3.umbc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: dhawk@netcom.com (David Hawkins)
Subject: Step Eight
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 15:38:58 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: na
Keywords: willing amends

Well, it's August, so it must be Step Eight, eh?
Step 8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to
make amends to them all.

What is it with this little word "all" - isn't that a bit extreme?

8-)

later, david
--
David Hawkins    dhawk@netcom.com
They who give have all things; they who withhold have nothing.  
                      -- Hindu proverb
From: esteward@bbseg5.isi.edu (Elaine Steward)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Still Smoke Free
Date: 21 Aug 92 15:43:50 GMT

NINE MONTHS WITHOUT A CIGARETTE!!!!  THIS CONTINUES TO BE VERY HARD.  
I KEEP REMINDING MYSELF THAT THERE'S ONLY ONE CIGARETTE I CAN'T HAVE. 
THANKS FOR MY *.A PROGRAMS --- I COULDN'T HAVE DONE THIS WITHOUT THEM.

elaine
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: enigma@netcom.com (Enigma)
Subject: Re: Pain
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 15:11:56 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


Joanne,

In my opinion, Nina and Tracy were wrong on both counts.  Your contract
was with Nina, not with the owner of the building.  She should call him,
not you.  And leaving one's cat at the veterinarian's is a perfectly
reasonable thing to do.

I suggest you call the Santa Cruz Consumer Affairs Tenant/Landlord
office at 425-2054.  I would think they would be able to answer any
questions you may have.  Good luck.
-- 
Holly McGrath   <enigma@netcom.com> 
1803 Mission Street, #339          
Santa Cruz, CA 95060              
(408) 479-4072  (voice mail)     
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Subject: Re: Step Eight
Keywords: willing amends
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 13:43:54 GMT

alawrenc@sobeco.com (a.lawrence) writes:

>In <cv9mfmd.dhawk@netcom.com> dhawk@netcom.com (David Hawkins) writes:

>>Well, it's August, so it must be Step Eight, eh?
>>Step 8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to
>>make amends to them all.

>>What is it with this little word "all" - isn't that a bit extreme?

>Very much so.  Along with "rigourous honesty", "constitutionally 
>incapable", "let go absoluty", "Our human resources ... failed utterly",
>"My Creator ... have all of me" (that word again), "go to any lengths",
>"The spiritual life is *not* a theory, we *have* to live it", "daily
>reprieve", etc, etc, etc.

>I often think of Bill's adjectives as the got'cha's.  Just when I
>am beginning to believe I am approaching perfection, I find another
>adjective.

Yup. Extreme problems require extremem solutions!

love and service,

jim p.
-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
Huntsville,AL (205)461-4922  
This life is a test. It is only a test. If it had been a real life, you 
would have been given instructions....
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: joni@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (joni.dunlap)
Subject: where is everyone????
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:14:51 GMT

Where is everyone????? Is everyone on vacation???? I've only seen 
one post a day here for a week.

I guess it's time to start a new topic. Lets see how about doing Gods
will. 

1. What is Gods will?

The plan that God has for me.

2. How do I know that I'm doing Gods will?

To me the only indication that I'm not doing Gods will is the presence
of pain.

3. What happens when I do Gods will.

For me life is a lot less complicated, and I tend to be much more serene.


Joni :)
From: nielsen@math.duke.edu (Jeanne Nielsen)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Low blood sugar
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:48:21 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.
Originator: nielsen@cauchy.math.duke.edu

Does anyone out there know anything about recommended food plans for
hypoglycemia (a.k.a. low blood sugar)?  I've been reading a book on
it that recommends some pretty radical dietary changes.  The book's
about 13 years old, and I wondered if anyone knew of anything more
recent.

				-Jeanne

-- 
Jeanne Nielsen  (nielsen@math.duke.edu)

"Sex is the mathematics urge sublimated."
		-M. C. Reed
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: gpotts@hebb.uoregon.edu
Subject: Re: where is everyone????
Organization: Brain Electrophysiology Lab, University of Oregon
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 15:30:06 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.181451.13742@cbfsb.cb.att.com> joni@cbnewsf.cb.att.com
(joni.dunlap) writes:
>Where is everyone????? Is everyone on vacation???? I've only seen 
>one post a day here for a week.
>

We all know what opinions are like -- here's mine.

>
>1. What is Gods will?
>
>The plan that God has for me.

I've always had trouble with this western concept of a supernatural being
with a personal plan for me. It has always seemed somewhat arrogant that, if
there is such an entity as God, he would have a pesonal plan for me. I once
read that when a farmer plants, he is interested in the crop, not the
individual seeds. I find that concept more humble and somehow more
comforting.

>
>2. How do I know that I'm doing Gods will?
>
>To me the only indication that I'm not doing Gods will is the presence
>of pain.

Pain is part of life. Absence of pain is NOT the goal of life (though it has
often been my motivation). I do have a pretty good internal barometer,
though, that tells me if I'm contemplating some action that is unhealthy
for me, mentally, emotionally, physically, or spiritually. If I don't heed
that barometer and follow the voice that says "f*ck it, do it anyway", then
I know I'm going to pay with some suffering I didn't have to do.

>
>3. What happens when I do Gods will.
>
>For me life is a lot less complicated, and I tend to be much more serene.

Mine too.

>
>
>Joni :)
>
>

--geoff

Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: alawrenc@sobeco.com (a.lawrence)
Subject: Re: Why talk.bizarre is like an AA meeting.
Organization: Sobeco Ernst & Young
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 02:07:58 GMT

In <5907@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil> rpwhite@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (rpwhite) writes:

>Because both are filled with clueless newbies that you can have fun
>with.

>rp -- introduced "newbie" to replace "newcomer" in my home group.
>      I saw a great need.

Been sober long?  You don't seem to have very much respect for the
people the meetings are intended to serve most.  
-- 
On a clear disk you can seek forever.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Lawrence, Informaticien Conseil           |  alawrenc@sobeco.com
3605 St-Urbain, #1605                            |  uunet!sobeco!alawrenc
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Subject: Re: Step Eight
Keywords: willing amends
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 20:22:31 GMT

dhawk@netcom.com (David Hawkins) writes:

>Well, it's August, so it must be Step Eight, eh?
>Step 8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to
>make amends to them all.

>What is it with this little word "all" - isn't that a bit extreme?

8-)'Remember, it was agreed at the beginning that we would go to any lengths
for victory over alcohol...if we haven't the will to do this, we ask until
it comes.'

I've been noticing how the Daily Reflections sticks pretty closely to
the _step_of_the_month_club. This month it helped me get rid of some 
nagging things - things which I would tell myself 'That's not important'
but kept thinking about it, so obviously it was...8-)

come to think of it, with this little 'not all, really?' attitude which
(while I saw David's smiley face) I know I get, you could almost make
an axiom out of 'those amends which I most want to avoid, I most need
to make.'

once again, I need to do what i don't want to do...8-)

love and service,
jim p.
-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
Huntsville,AL (205)461-4922  
This life is a test. It is only a test. If it had been a real life, you 
would have been given instructions....
Newsgroups: alt.recovery