HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mw@irfu.se (Mattias Waldenvik)
Subject: Re: Backcountry Coffee
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 23:29:11 GMT
Organization: Swedish Institute of Space Physics, Uppsala, Sweden

In article <1992Aug12.223747.2729@odin.corp.sgi.com> kamk@sgi.com (Kameran Kashani) writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.164700.29244@midway.uchicago.edu> rtp1@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>+ ...
>+ ...  Through the grounds in the kettle with 
>+ water, and bring to a boil (Don't boil for long).  Take it off,
>+ and let it stop boiling.  Throw in a small splash of cold water
>+ to settle the grounds and pour off carefully into your cup.
>+ 
>
>Yup. Works great. I start with the grounds in cold
>water, just bring to a boil ever-so-briefly, let sit
>for a minute or two, then carefully pour the coffee
>into a cup. Your mileage may vary.

	Amen !! I never knew there was another way to make coffee.
	Not the fine grind, that's for brewers. Be careful with the
	kettle, it'll boil over when you turn your back. Bring a 
	separate kettle for coffee since the kettle will be rather
	greasy after a while and everything you make in it will have 
	a slight taste of coffee. The secret to good coffee ?? 
	Well, I personally believe it is 1) Fresh coffee kept in
	an airthight container 2) A rough grind and 3) prepared
	as above. 

			Cheers!
-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
	Mattias Waldenvik			Phone:	intl.+46 18 303674
	Swedish Institute of Space Physics	Fax:	intl.+46 18 403100
	Uppsala Division
	S-755 90 Uppsala, Sweden		mw@irfu.se
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: cgates@mitre.org (Curt Gates)
Subject: Re: Acadia Report & A Controversial Issue (somewhat long)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 13:40:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.030208.22634@athena.mit.edu> misterl@athena.mit.edu 
(Lawrence P Lubowsky) writes:
> However, I don't think it's right for the stores in Bar Harbor to
> bad-mouth the stores in the park simply because some businessmen
> managed to get a contract from the NPS.  I don't think that getting
> rid of the shops and restaurants in Acadia will have any effect on the
> road congestion in the park.  People don't drive through Acadia to
> shop, they drive through in order to see the park.  I think that this
> is a slightly unfair piece of propaganda.

The *real* issue is about too many cars!  And a system that must cater to 
visitors who want to see Acadia through a windshield.  How about just 
closing the roads from 8 am to 8 pm in July and August, and possibly 
offering bus or train service to the campgrounds?  That should solve the 
congestion problem and also put an end to the petty merchant squabble.

************************************
I worked as a technical writer ... editing manuals ... on how to dispose 
of sewage in permafrost; we all had to wear white shirts -- that was 
mandatory -- and I was fired at the end of two weeks for spending too much 
time staring out the window.  
(Edward Abbey)
************************************ 
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: clindh@abalon.se (Christer Lindh)
Subject: Re: MSR Stoves - Whisperlite (how about Peak I)
Organization: Abalon AB, Stockholm, Sweden
	<1992Aug18.123317.19987@scott.skidmore.edu>
Date: 19 Aug 92 07:05:13 GMT


In an article pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu (Pierre VonKaenel) writes:
>  Unfortunately, I put my old Peak I aside and bought a Whisperlite for
>  size and weight.  I've read a number of posts concerning the built-in
>  Peak I fuel resevoir.
>
Has anyone out there used the new Coleman "Whisperlite lookalike"
(forgot the name), that has a separate fuel reservoir/bottle just like
the MSR's?  Looks good and all that, but what's the verdict?

I'm getting fed up with my MSR. During this summers US trip it started
behaving badly again, sputtering, flame going down to the jet etc.
Cleaning/replacing all possible parts didn't help. Tried all the
tricks I received when I asked about it several months ago on this
group.  Now I'm gonna send the darn thing back to MSR.

So I gave up, bought a cheapo Spider butane-stove to be able to still
cook outdoors. Not a bad stove actually, but the cartridges don't last
long and are expensive.
-- 
::        clindh@abalon.se        ::   o/       ::                          ::
::  Abalon AB, Stockholm, Sweden  ::  /@        ::          Earth.          ::
::        59.19 N, 17.57 E        ::  <|\  acro ::   Love it or leave it.   ::
::    * All disclaimers apply *   ::   |   phil ::                          ::
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Public perceptions.
Date: 12 Aug 92 21:21:33 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <jstewart.713543122@cunews> jstewart@alfred.carleton.ca (John Stewart) writes:
|In <1992Aug11.134040.10416@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> bobh@troy.uucp (22131-hettmansperger) writes:
|>What a bunch of arrogant self-important snobs you people are.  The greed
|>and selfishness of the 80s goes backwoods.
|
|I was going to reply by mail until I checked out your mail address and
|determined that it is unusable.  You claim to be bobh@troy.uucp but a
|look at the UUCP maps shows that the name troy belongs to a UUCP site in the
|Netherlands.  I can only conclude that you are too stupid to properly 
|configure your news software or (if you really are a uucp site) too lazy to
|go to the trouble of properly registering a unique uucp name for your system.
|Usenet is full of people like you! :-)

Dear Mr. Canoehead,

Brilliant.  Mr. Hettmansperger (funny, it sounds a bit Dutch to me) makes
an observation about people that are making elitist comments about their
superior knowledge of the backcountry and what do you do.  You make an
elitist comment about his ability to configure his news software.  I'd say
you pretty much proved his point.


-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
From: kenm@array.com (Ken Murphy)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Moose & Elk
Date: 21 Aug 92 15:53:06 GMT
Organization: Array Microsystems, Colorado Springs, CO. USA

eman@niepce.foto.lpc.ethz.ch (Eric Maniloff x4440) writes:
: Big question here!  What is the difference between a moose & an elk?

Moose are generally black, (or dark in color) have longs legs and have 
antlers like Bullwinkle.  They like marshy type areas.
They have tufts of hair under their chins that look like beards.


Elk look like large deer.  Their antlers will grow to sizes of 4-5 feet in
height.  Elk are dark brown to almost red with a lighter colored haunch.
: 
: Is there a difference?  I thought that moose were expanded versions of elk,
  ^^^^                    ^^^^
  Most definitely Yes.    Most definitly No. 
: 
: but someone found a dictionary saying moose:  common name for elk.
 
       Throw that dictionary away or at least tear out that page.
Merf
From: heatherb@NREL.ColoState.EDU (Heather Bean)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Backcountry Coffee:  Heresy!!!!!!
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:52:19 GMT
Organization: College of Natural Resources, Colo. State Univ.

In article <1992Aug14.115948.18885@brtph560.bnr.ca> jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com (JB) writes:
>Am I to infer from all the previous furor that I am the only trekker to
>use (oh God, do I dare say the word.....shudder) INSTANT coffee?????

No, no, you're not the only one... :^)

BTW, While I was in a King Soopers here in Fort Collins last night I noticed 
that Boyer's brand coffee is now selling the coffee bags that were mentioned
earlier--they appeared to have several flavors and varieties.
-- 
Heather Bean
heatherb@opuntia.CFNR.ColoState.edu
From: estell@uoftcse.cse.utoledo.edu (John K. Estell)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Comments on Yellowstone
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:13:38 GMT

ray@skink.cis.ohio-state.edu (william c ray) writes:
: This just in from a friend who has just returned from his
: first trip to the american west, uploaded with permission
: for your amusement(?)...
: 
: 
: Scene:  Enormous crowd of suburban-inbred and suburban-raised suburbanites
:         of various ages standing, slouching, sitting on the wooden platform
:         intended to keep these mindless creatures from falling through any
:         thin spots in the earth's crust and being scalded to the point of
:         non-existence.   ...........  They are waiting for the predictable
:         eruption of Old Faithful, an appropriate activity for this group,
:         which will, no doubt, be the highlight of each individual's day,
:         inspiring and uplifting each for many days to come.  As it starts
:         to rise, the crowd utters its favorable response, the volume propor-
:         tional to the height of the column of water and steam.  As it dies
:         away, the crowd applauds and stares, waiting for the park people
:         to turn it back on for an encore.
: 
: --- Craig
: 

One of the things I like to show from my trip to Yellowstone is a sequence
of photos I taped together for a panoramic view of Old Faithful.  It starts
out with trees and mountains in the background, then Old Faithful as it is
starting to erupt, then as you continue you see a platform full of "Gaukus
Americanus" (I deliberately took the end seat for such a photo).  When I
was there, the majority of the visitors left once Old Faithful reached the
apex of its eruption.  Fortunately, you don't have to go far in order to
get away from >90% of the couch potatoes; the trails by Old Faithful were 
uncrowded even though the area around the Inn was packed.

As for depressing sights at Yellowstone, my top nomination goes to the
Canyon of the Yellowstone at the place ("Artist's View"?) where one can 
see up the canyon to the Lower Falls of the Yellowstone River.  It's a
great view, until you look down at your feet and see all the cigarette
butts, candy wrappers, chewing gum, and other vulgar pieces of trash
strewn about the place, including items deliberately thrown over the edge.
It makes you really wonder about people.....

John

==============================================================================
John K. Estell, Computer Science & Engineering Dept., The University of Toledo
estell@uoftcse.cse.utoledo.edu, estell@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu
   "There's no place like $FC58."
       - What Dorothy would have said if she owned an Apple II
-- 
==============================================================================
John K. Estell, Computer Science & Engineering Dept., The University of Toledo
estell@uoftcse.cse.utoledo.edu, estell@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu
   "There's no place like $FC58."
From: jwmorris@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Jeff Morris)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Frequency of Bear Encounters on Hiking Trails
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:47:29 GMT
Reply-To: jwmorris@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Jeff Morris)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In response to the question regarding bear encounters while hiking,
my family was going up the Cedar Run trail in Shenandoah National Park
when our 8-year-old point man alerted us to the presense of an adult
bear and a cub.  The bears were about thirty feet off the trail and
simply wandered away from us to a tree fifty yards up the hillside from
which they observed us observing them.  Eventually, both groups had
their fill of each other and left the area.  This occurred in daylight.

I am glad this is all that happened.
From: jhurst@amb4.ese.ogi.edu (James Hurst)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Point to Ponder (Wolves in Yellowst
Summary: No Moo in 92, Cattle Free in 93, Moo No More in 94, etc, etc.
Keywords: Smash the oppressive bovine totalitarian state of things, etc, etc
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:42:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.41309
Organization: Center for High Energy Metaphysics

wayne trzyna writes:

>Moose were re-introduced to Colorado not too long ago.  They seem to
>be doing well.  I saw my first Colorado moose last weekend.  

I saw my first a couple years ago on the back side of Rocky Park.  The Park
people were ecstatic, they had apparently come *over* the Neversummer Mtns
from some FS wilderness areas, so the NPS got them for free.  What a deal,
the PS people we talked to were almost jumping up and down, since we were
only about the third sighting in the park.

>What a humongous creature! 

Moose are pretty amazing, a horse with a dragline on its face. 

>Its size was equalled only by its clumsiness.

>Recent postings have pointed out to me that it is childish and
>self-righteous to pay homage to the moose without giving equal
>recognition to creatures such as the cow.  

Fair enough.

>Cattle are, more useful to society, and generally better behaved
>than moose.  It is selfish to want to see moose, when cattle provide
>us with so much beef.  

However, the value of cows must be relative, right?  Cows are designed for 
a humid climate.  They are grazers, while most of the native fauna in the 
arid west are browsers.  In fragile landscapes, this is important.  Cows can
strip the land bare in a single seasons, and it can take decades to recover.
Unfortunately, this is the norm on a couple of hundred million acres of 
public lands in the West.

Cows have their place.  If it's not east of Colorado's front range, or on 
private land, then they should be managed with the health and productivity
of the land in mind, not for welfare to ranchers and the public be damned,
as has largely been the case to date.

>My (relativist) therapist says I should recognize
>other's points of view as legitimate.  

Very true.  It is quite logical for ranchers to desire to preserve the status
quo, since it amounts to an entitlement at public expense.  It is equally 
logical for those of us who pay their bills to resent it, and work to change
that circumstance.

>My (relativist) therapist says I'm going to be *ALL RIGHT*.

Hey, not only that, Wayne, but you're already ALL RIGHT.  And you'll likely 
stay that way.  

						Jim
From: Dan Yurman <dyurman@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:58 PDT
Subject: Re: Comments on Yellowstone
Nf-ID: #R:1992Aug14.130810.10904@cis.ohio-:1832592726:cdp:1449600021:000:649
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dyurman    Aug 14 14:58:00 1992


The best time to see Old Faithful is in a rainstorm, preferably
a summer downpour of tropical dimensions. It's very pretty
and there is no one out there except you and the ground
squirrils.  

PS: Facts to impress your friends with.  The residence time
for water underground coming up with each eruption of old
faithful is about 500 years.  Basically, the water flowing
past your feet last saw the surface of the earth about the
time Columbus set out to discover the new world.

Dan Yurman            | dyurman@igc.org          | 43N
PO Box 1569           | dyurman%igc.org@stanford | 112W
Idaho Falls, ID 83403 | MCI Mail: 364-1277       | -7 GMT


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: campbell@clam.med.ge.com (Scott Campbell Mfg QIE 4-6778)
Subject: tents
Reply-To: campbell@clam.med.ge.com (Scott Campbell Mfg QIE 4-6778)
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Milwaukee,  WI
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 22:56:01 GMT


I am looking for a good light weight tent.  the specs would be 
2 person, folds to 5 X 16 or better, 5 - 6 lbs free standing
with good wind resistance.
So far the closest I can find is the Moss net outland.  I could 
live with the floor layout but cant justify the price.  I like the 
north face tadpole, but its folded size is no better then what I 
now have.  Any one have suggestions?
Also were can I get a Kelty and Walrus cataloge.  
  

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: HF.MMS@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark Skubik)
Subject: Re: Bear Identification
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 02:06:21 GMT

Hi,

Besides for size (a variable), Black bears and Grizzlies vary
in three inportant ways:

1)  The face of a grizzly is much more "dished" than that
    of a black bear, ie, more clearly contoured.

2)  The obvious hump over the front sholders of a grizzly
    is missing in a black bear.

3)  A grizzly has long claws extending well out from it's
    paws while a black bear's claws really aren't very
    visable, being much shorter and closer to the paw.

As for color, Black bears range to cinnamon, brown and blond.
Sometimes, black bears will have white patches on their chests.
How come the color variance?  How come I have green eyes while
yours are brown or blue?

As to mating between blacks and grizzlies...there is an adult
size differential that would probably work against it.

My two cents worth,

mms
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: burris@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Jim Burris)
Subject: Re: Oregon Wallowas
Keywords: alpine lakes - where?
Organization: TI Semiconductor Process and Design Center
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:12:20 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.232055.5399@nmt.edu> houle@nmt.edu (Paul Houle) writes:
>In article <1992Aug11.133632.22530@ms.uky.edu> cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug10.230759.28314@sequent.com> karlm@sequent.com (Karl Maerz) writes:
>>>trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>>>
>>>* Children should not be allowed in wilderness areas since they

>	One or two kids aren't bad -- but taking a whole bunch of them is!
>I was working with a summer program about endangered species which took a
>group of junior high school students on field trips every day.  One day

>	In all,  children en masse at that age seem to have little conception
>of why one should try to leave a minimal impact in wild/semi-wild places.  I
>found this really frustrating.
>
   Granted, children can be very frustrating. Two points: 1) groups of children
require the proper adult/child ratio, say 0.2 - 0.1, in order for the adults to
remain sane and the children to be properly supervised/safguarded/taught. 
2) yes, children (and most adults) have a limited concept of having a minimal
impact in the wilderness. It is up to those of us with that knowledge to
transfer that knowledge, especially to the next generation(s).

Jim Burris

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov (David Paul Encisco)
Subject: Re: pack animals
Keywords: alpine lakes - where?
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:49:32 GMT

allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:

>Unfortunately, most people associate pack aminals as being horses,
>mules, and burros.  However there are other less destructive pack
>animals such llamas...and goats.

When it comes to meadow grazing, goats are far more destructive than
horses. Maybe they trample less than a horse, but with limited
vegetation they'll eat down to the ground. I don't know anything
about llama other than running into a llama packer in Trinity Alps
who was grazing his llama in a meadow that had signs posted saying
"no horse grazing". When I asked him about it he said, "but they're
not horses". Seems that more than just horse packers need to be
educated.

>When an active education
>program has been initated and the trails / meadows are still being
>trashed then ban the people and their horses.  Until then sorry no
>support from me (and I hate seeing horses on the trails as much as I
>seeing cairns).  I find the attitude of banning everything bad in the
>woods like the voice of people who want to ban abortion without
>supporting sex education.  Finding a cure without searching for the
>cause it plain damm stupid.

Well I agree with the abortion statement, but I think the analogy is
fallacious in this example. Much of the damage has already been done
decades ago. Some areas just need time to heal (fortunately
Kings Canyon and parts of Muir Wilderness have rerouted trails
that use to go through meadows). Some areas will never recover,
like areas where pumiceous type soil is predominate.

>"If you don't vote then don't bitch"

I vote and write my congressmen, thus I can bitch!

Dave
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: m_henderson@csc32.enet.dec.com (Marty Henderson)
Subject: Info Request: Isle Royal Michigan
Reply-To: m_henderson@csc32.enet.dec.com (Marty Henderson)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp. (VMS Software Support - Colorado)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:29:38 GMT

--
I am looking for information regarding Isle Royal Michigan. As I understand
it this is an island (or perhaps a series of islands) in lake Supperior off
the coast of the Michigan UP. I have heard that this is an unspoiled island
with wolf, bear, moose, etc...

I am looking for info regarding the following:

	* Who runs the park? U.S. parks? State of Michigan?
		Phone numbers for the organization that runs it

	* Any info regarding backpacking on the island.
		Personal experiences
		Good places etc...

	* Access to the island.
		Driving distance/time from Chicago
		Info about Ferry access to the island
		Length of ferry trip, cost, etc...

	* Best time of year to backpack.
		Weather
		Bugs

	* Island/park rules
		Campfires?
		How long can you camp?
		Permits needed?

Any info you can provide will be most helpfull and appreciated. You can Email
to me or post to the newsgroup for all to see.

Thanks in advance,

Marty
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 M_Henderson               | "Could you please continue the petty bickering?
 Marty Henderson           |  I find it most intriguing."   ---    Data, 
 Woodland Park, Colorado   |  Star Trek, The Next Generation, "Haven"
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: accessible = !wilderness (WAS Re: Oregon Wallowas
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 19:09:40 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.174436.20504@javelin.sim.es.com>,
biesel@javelin.sim.es.com (Heiner Biesel) writes:
>
>
>Since many areas of potential wilderness status are currently open to
>travel by means other than walking and "simple" gear, those who don't
>want to hike are opposed to extending the wilderness areas. This in turn
>leaves many scenic areas open for commercial exploitation, which is the
>exact opposite of what is desired by most people. A better compromise
>might be a designation short of full wilderness status that still preserves
>access while preventing extensive development.
>
There is some merit to the idea of a "semi-wilderness" area.  I have
read that there have been instances of BLM or NFS pushing a road
through an area just so it would no longer be "roadless" and hence
not qualify for protection.  I've also heard of some group sueing
against establishment of a wilderness designation on the basis that
sometime in the 19th century there was a road!   If the alternative
is some protection vs. no protection this might be a valid idea.  I
would want some assurance that it would be difficult to use a
"semi-wilderness" designation to downgrade a "wilderness"
designation or sneak development into an area that was a legitamate
candidate for a "wilderness" designation.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: rtp1@quads.uchicago.edu (raymond thomas pierrehumbert)
Subject: Re: light weight coffee makers - (was: totally obnoxious camper w/o my espresso)
Reply-To: rtp1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 02:24:23 GMT


>   I've read somewhere that drinking boiled coffee increases your risk of
>cancer; filtered coffee reduces or eliminates this hazard
No, what the study showed is that only boiled coffee had a
noticable effect on heart disease and cholesterol levels (though
still a very small effect).  Filtered coffee, if anything,
would increase your cancer risk, because of dioxin residues
in the bleached filters.  I have never seen unbleached
filters for sale in this country.

The health effects are very small for even boiled coffee.  It's
not something for backpacking vegetarians to worry about.