HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pete@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au (Peter Alexander Merel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Corner attacks
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:13:45 GMT
Organization: AOTC - CSSC

dxb105@phys.anu.edu.au (David Bofinger) writes:
>dif@bhprtc.scpd.oz.au (David Faulkner) wrote:
>> In my last game, I had two corners nicely sewn up, and my opponent
>> managed to make a nice little group complete with two eyes right in
>> the corner, somthing like [diagram deleted]
>> Does anyone have some advice on how
>> to stop opponents doing this to me.
>It's hard to say without seeing the position after his first move,
>but the short answer is probably that there isn't any way to stop
>him. I'd guess he invaded at the ever popular 3-3 point: such groups
>live unless you have stones reasonably close to them. A stone on the
>handicap point isn't enough.

>In short, your best method of revenge will be to learn to do it back
>to him.

Or better still, trade territory for presence. If you build a wall on the
outside of the corner while your partner is building territory inside, then
you need only sketch out a facing wall to threaten to grab huge chunks of the
side. Of course, if you were do this for all of the corners you'd probably
be screwed ...

-- 
Internet: pete@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au   UUCP: {uunet,mcvax}!munnari!cssc-syd!pete
Snail: 1/18-20 Orion Road, Lane Cove NSW 2066 Australia    Phone: +61 2 911 3130
I am a big pond in a small fish.
From: jb8285@guinea (Jeffrey R. Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Seeking Public Domain Go Programs
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:10:09 GMT
Organization: Medtronic, Inc.

Does anyone know of any public domain Go programs that run under the
X graphical interface?  I'm running SUN Open Look so it needs to be
compatible with that environment.

I'm not a complete beginner (I'm about 9 kyu) and I'd like to get a
program that's better.  I've tried some PC-based programs (e.g. Many
Faces of Go) and, depending on how one sets the difficulty, it is
either too slow or too stupid.

I didn't see an FAQ in the newsgroup, so if this information is in a
periodically posted FAQ, I apologize.

Reply by e-mail preferred.

--
Jeffrey R. Brown                Internet: jeffrey.brown@medtronic.com
Medtronic, Inc. (T430)          UUCP:     uunet!medtron!jb8285
7000 Central Avenue N.E.        Voice:    1-612-574-4698
Minneapolis, MN 55432 USA       FAX:      1-612-574-6150
From: fkschmid@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Frank Schmidt)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: How can I play on IGS?
Summary: igs
Keywords: igs
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:35:09 GMT
Organization: CSD., University of Erlangen

How can I play go on IGS?
What adress does it have?
What client do I need to play?

---
*********Frank Schmidt**********fkschmid@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de*********
From: tolvanen@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Martti Tolvanen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: etiquette of time on IGS
Date: 7 Oct 92 07:11:49 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

Just my $0.02 worth: I think adding time is justified when there are
network problems that steal time, but otherwise one should stick to the
time limit given at the start of the game.  If you can't play fast
enough, you lose, and maybe that'll motivate you to play faster or
choose a more appropriate time limit next time. 

Martti, 15k
-- 
Martti Tolvanen, Dept. Biochem., Univ. Helsinki, Finland
tolvanen@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: ratner@cs.columbia.edu (Michael Ratner)
Subject: Re: Corner attacks
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 04:41:31 GMT

In article <dxb105-151092122747@theophys1.anu.edu.au> dxb105@phys.anu.edu.au (David Bofinger) writes:
>In article <1992Oct15.010935.16553@bhprtc.scpd.oz.au>,
>dif@bhprtc.scpd.oz.au (David Faulkner) wrote:
>> In my last game, I had two corners nicely sewn up, and my opponent
>> managed to make a nice little group complete with two eyes right in
>> the corner, somthing like [diagram deleted]
>> Does anyone have some advice on how
>> to stop opponents doing this to me.
>
>It's hard to say without seeing the position after his first move,
>but the short answer is probably that there isn't any way to stop
>him. I'd guess he invaded at the ever popular 3-3 point: such groups
>live unless you have stones reasonably close to them. A stone on the
>handicap point isn't enough.

Actually the diagram that you presented shows that your opponent did not
go to sun-sun (3-3).  Or had there been your stone at 3-3 that was
later captured ?
I'd say if you are a beginner and don't have much experience in tightfisted
fighting, then do the following:

-- if your opponent made a move into the empty corner but NOT to 3-3,
go to 3-3 yourself and try to squeeze life out of him. 
-- if your opponent goes to 3-3, cap him at hoshi (4-4 ) and try to
minimize your losses by surrounding his group.
If you see that he lives, try to enclose his stones and make him live
in the corner.  Letting him out might spell out ruin for any territory
that you have in that part of the board.

Just MHO...

				-- Mike Ratner (2-kyu)

>David Bofinger  AARNet: dxb105@phys.anu.edu.au




-- 
******************************************************************************
			|  Michael B. Ratner  |
			|_____________________|
From: sloane@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Bob Sloane)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Blitz tournament
Date: 7 Oct 92 18:26:00 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1992Oct7.040832.16995@news.vanderbilt.edu>,
 LIPSCOJA@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu (Andy Lipscomb) writes:
>   If sudden-death is the way we go, I would suggest 15min, 19x19 in the
> winners' bracket and 10min, 13x13 in the losers' bracket.

The problem with time limits on igs is that you are limited by the
speed of your communications line.  I sometimes play from home over a
2400 baud modem. It takes about 10 seconds to update the board after
every move. That means that I can't finish a game in under 30 minutes,
even if I make my moves with no thought at all (which I frequently do :-).
-- 
USmail: Bob Sloane, University of Kansas Computer Center, Lawrence, KS, 66045
E-mail: sloane@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu, sloane@ukanvax.bitnet, AT&T: (913)864-0444 
Newsgroups: rec.games.go,rec.games.list
From: dif@bhprtc.scpd.oz.au (David Faulkner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Corner attacks
Date: 15 Oct 92 01:40:56 GMT
Organization: BHP Steel, Sheet & Coil, Research & Technology Centre

I am a relative beginner at go, playing regularly against someone a bit
better than myself but still without much proper background.

In my last game, I had two corners nicely sewn up, and my opponent
managed to make a nice little group complete with two eyes right in
the corner, somthing like this:
(can't exactly remember where my black stones were around it, so I've
left them out).
| . . . . . . . . . . . . .      The bugger did it to me TWICE, and I
| O O O O O O O . . . . . .      seemed unable to stop him. It cost me
| # # # # # # O O . . . . .      about 30 points all up (the other group
| . . . . . # # O O O O O .      was a bit bigger than this one). As it
| . . . . . . # # # # # O O      turned out, I lost by more than that,
| . O O . . . . . . . # # O      but I don't want it to happen again.
| O . O . . . . . . . . # O
| . O O . . . . . . . . # O      Does anyone have some advice on how
+--------------------------      to stop opponents doing this to me.

Any help much appreciated.
Thanks,
	-dif-
-- 
Dave Faulkner, Research Engineer                    (dif@bhprtc.scpd.oz.au)
BHP Coated Products Division, Research and Technology Centre
Port Kembla, New South Wales, Australia.
From: jy23+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jing Yang)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: HELP
Date: 13 Oct 92 23:44:54 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

I am a beginer to use IGS. I hope I can use it to play games at home with a 
IBM-PC/AT compatible computer. I try to telnet before,the connection is good 
but the screen is messy, I can't even watch a game. I will appreciate
anyone who offer me good suggustions.

Thank you very much

Jing Yang
From: cust_ts@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Tero Sand)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Blitz tournament
Date: 8 Oct 92 09:10:50 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <1992Oct7.182601.43670@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> sloane@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Bob Sloane) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.040832.16995@news.vanderbilt.edu>,
> LIPSCOJA@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu (Andy Lipscomb) writes:
>>   If sudden-death is the way we go, I would suggest 15min, 19x19 in the
>> winners' bracket and 10min, 13x13 in the losers' bracket.
>
>The problem with time limits on igs is that you are limited by the
>speed of your communications line.  I sometimes play from home over a
>2400 baud modem. It takes about 10 seconds to update the board after
>every move. That means that I can't finish a game in under 30 minutes,
>even if I make my moves with no thought at all (which I frequently do :-).

If you have a PC or a Mac, or are using a Unix account, pick up a
client. Highly recommended anyway.

(With a client, only the coordinate of the last move is sent, so the
whole board doesn't have to be updated.)
-- 
-Tero Sand
  EMail: cust_ts@cc.helsinki.fi     Snail mail: Auroran Sairaala os. 6-1
  (if that doesn't work, try                    Nordenskioldinkatu 20
   custts@cc.helsinki.fi)                       00250 Helsinki 25, Finland
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: tcasey@adobe.com (Tim Casey)
Subject: Re: Blitz tournament
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 07:10:15 GMT

In article <JT.92Oct9135355@fizyk1.fuw.edu.pl> jt@fuw.edu.pl (Jerzy Tarasiuk) writes:
>May be need for pause possibility: tell server what move is done and
>that a pause is requested, server would inform the opposite player
>about pause request and if he/she would agree, pause game WITHOUT
>informing the opposite player what move was done (similar rule of
>pausing is (or was) used on chess tounaments when game was to be
>continued on next day... ). Can IGS do it ?

I have heard it called sealed move adjournment.  A sealed move is
given so neither player has an opportunity to think.  I think,
for the level of play, that a sealed move adjourn is over kill.
Yes the software could do it.  Kinda sucks to actually have to do it,
though.

tim


Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: matbepx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Bob E. Peatman)
Subject: pc client problem
Summary: pc client problem
Organization: Georgia State University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 21:17:53 GMT

I can not get the pc client to talk over the modem, it seems to execute ok but
the terminal emulation part doesnt work. I am thinking the problem might
be that the computer at my school wants E 7 1 and there are no options for
this in the configuration set up. Could this be?
                                              Bob Peatman 15K

Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: tcasey@adobe.com (Tim Casey)
Subject: Re: IGS rankings (formerly Blitz tournament)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 07:02:53 GMT

In article <wschip76.718498569@ursa> wschip76@ursa.calvin.edu (W Schipper III) writes:
>>  As to handicaps, my concern is that with all the talk of bogus ranks, they
>>might not be accurate enough.  But in principle, good idea; two rated players
>>play at the appropriate handicap level, but if either is NR, no handicap.
>>  Would it be possible to set a threshold where if a player wins a handicap
>>game by more than X stones, his rating is bumped up (for tournament purposes
>>only) by 1 step (and the opponent's dropped)?

>Why not carry something like this over to the whole IGS?  Players start NR,

Actually I believe they should start at the `average' rank.
`NR' in ranks, actually means:  I do not want to tell you my rank (Not Ranked).

>are ranked by their first few games (5 or so).  As they continue to win or 
>lose, the rank is gradually adjusted.  This could make the rankings much less
>arbitrary.

How about this.
	1)  Use some accepted system.  For example, the AGA had some
	    old algorithms that worked, especially for the server
	    environment.  What can I say.  I am a computer person,
	    I like standards.  After this, I could probably go to
	    a book store and see how real people (math people) do it.
	    A *real* ranking system is computationally hairy.  A lesser
	    ranking system is easy, but not as acurate.
	
	2)  If ranks are *ever* done on IGS, computed ranks should be
	    kept *private*.  May people told me this.  I do not see
	    an advatage to computed ranks.  If you do not know your
	    strength, you are probably weaker than you think you are.

	3)  I personally do not like the politics of ranks.  The server
	    is already too political, but will not change.

	4)  Someone suggested that their should be different systems
	    for "blitz" games and regular 'play-for-real' games.
	    All games should be 'real', at least in my opinion.  But
	    there is a time limit, just for that purpose.  One of the
	    reasons the server is what it is today is I deleted all of
	    the 'blitz' code.  When I got the chess server it would not
	    stay up (to this day it will not stay up for more than a 
	    few days) for more than a few hours.  Simple codes means
	    a more reliable server.


I do not mean to be harsh.  With my experience, I call it the way I see it.
Anyone has any comments, suggestions, ideas, anything; tell me.  I do want
to hear in case I am incorrect.

thanks
tim
From: bailey@possum.den.mmc.com (Patrick Allen Bailey)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Go equipment for sale
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:03:14 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics Group, Denver

I have the following for sale:

A set of 9.8 mm Yuki grade slate and shell stones        $450
A set of 9.2 mm Jitsuyo (or whatever the second grade is called) grade
slate and shell stones        $150
A 4 inch (thickness) Katsura board        $95
A set of large Rose Keyaki bowls        $35

All are in excellant shape and are bargains considering the current
price at Ishi.

The Yuki grade stones were purchased in Japan, the rest of the items
were purchased from Ishi.

Pat Bailey
bailey@pogo.den.mmc.com

PO Box 3103
Littleton, CO  80161-3103
(303) 971-7909  (day)
From: nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: IGS-rankings (or better no rank)
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:09:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: ll.1992Oct16.180946.13732
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory

In article <16882C789.I0060301@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de> I0060301@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Klaus Blumberg) writes:
>i don't understand why people do not give their rank in the first place.

  a couple of things here - the rankings on the igs are allowed to be in
fun for fun's sake.  no one is really 30kyu, but UFO made the 30k rank a
very special tag successfully, with a good sense of humor.
the second, lesser, point is that if the high ranked players always
showed their truer rank, they might be besieged by newbies and have to
spend alot of time declining "educational" games.  at first i was also
somewhat annoyed, but after getting to know some of these player's in
the limited way you get to know them on the IGS, i think i find i like
the confusion & fun.
> 
>btw: how can players claim to be seven or eight dan, when even the
>japanese federation acknowledges just a handful of 7-dans?

there are 3 tiers of ranks on the IGS:  1p-9p, which is the group that
would have just a handful of 7-dans.  the 'p' is for professional.  we
actually had a game on the IGS, thanks to jansteen, between 2 9p players.

the 1d-9d group is the amatuer group.  1d here is pretty good.  9d is
very very good, but still not professional level.  although there may
be many more than a handful of 7d players, their actual slice of the
whole go world is still quite small.

and last there is the beginner group, created for the american players
long ago who were all so woefully behind, but still wanted to have a
sense of ranking.  these go the other way, with 1kyu being the best and
24k being a newgamer.  so 25-30k actually is impossible (unless you are
playing some kind of selfmate analogy :-) and therefore is available for
making humourous anecdotes in the kibitzing columns.

the top computer go games are around 10kyu, which makes them better than
me :-(....

- nate, 14kyu on the board, 30kyu in the kibitzing column :-)
From: dxb105@phys.anu.edu.au (David Bofinger)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Corner attacks
Followup-To: rec.games.go
Date: 16 Oct 1992 09:01:12 GMT
Organization: Theoretical Physics, Australian National University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.15.19

In article <dxb105-151092122747@theophys1.anu.edu.au>, I wrote:
> It's hard to say without seeing the position after his first move,
> but the short answer is probably that there isn't any way to stop
> him. I'd guess he invaded at the ever popular 3-3 point: such groups
> live unless you have stones reasonably close to them. A stone on the
> handicap point isn't enough.

Now for the disclaimer. All that was a lie. Sort of.

It is, in principle, possible to kill invasions like that. There is a
famous problem that has white attempting to invade a black corner moyo.
Black is given lines of stones along, say, the tenth lines (one
horizontal, one vertical). White plays wherever he likes, and black
tries to kill him. It turns out that the tenth line is about the size
at which whether white can live or not changes for professionals. When
amateurs play, the moyo usually has to be a fair bit smaller, in my
experience.

I'm adding this mostly for the sake of honesty, not because this sort
of thing tends to happen in a game. One of the ways white will usually
try to live is by exploiting the weaknesses in your shape, this case is
unusual because you don't have any. I hope that one of r.g.go's puzzle
freaks can give a better description than I have. (Given netlag to
Australia, maybe they already have.)

But in the real world, the proverb stands. 3-3 invasions succeed, so get
used to them. A stone on the 4-4 point looks toward edge and centre
territory more than the corner.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Bofinger  AARNet: dxb105@phys.anu.edu.au
                Snail:  Dept. of Theoretical Physics, RSPhysSE, ANU, ACT,
2601
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: hamilton@robin.rtp.dg.com (Eric Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Do you go on?
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 14:26:54 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC

In article <GRABINER.92Oct9124107@germain.harvard.edu>, grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner) writes:
|> 
|> North dealer, N-S vulnerable, matchpoints.  Sitting South, you hold:
|> 
|> AKxx
|> AQTxx
|> xxx
|> K
|> 
|> N   E   S   W
|> P   1D  1H  1S
|> P   2C  P   P
|> 2H  P   P   3C
|> P   P   ?
|> 
|> We play sound, unlimited overcalls (Kaplan-style).  Double here would be
|> action, not necessarily penalty.
|> 
|> Do you bid 3H, double, or pass?
|> 

Pass.  A testimonial to the law of total tricks.

One point worth noting is that over 1S partner, with a heart fit, should
raise immediately to the safety level suggested by the law of total tricks,
and that had he done so, the opponents would not have found their
club fit - unless that safety level happens to be 1H, and partner's second
pass was the "raise".  Thus, it is quite likely that partner has only two
hearts, and that the three level is a hostile place.

It's not at all hard to construct hands in which partner has a doubleton heart
and 3C goes down a few.  The opponents may well be in an eight-card fit, in
violation of the law themselves, and if RHO holds the heart king and partner
holds something like QTxx of clubs, they will be hurting.  Thus, I won't argue
with a double, but I try not to make partner regret having balanced.  I'd be
happier with an unambiguous penalty double than an action double here.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Hamilton				+1 919 248 6172
Data General Corporation		hamilton@dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com
62 Alexander Drive			...!mcnc!rti!xyzzy!hamilton
Research Triangle Park, NC  27709, USA
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: davidm@voltaire.Rational.COM (David Moore)
Subject: Re: Do you go on?
Keywords: perspective
Organization: Rational
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 18:43:42 GMT

willner@head-cfa.harvard.edu (Steve Willner) writes:


>> N-S vul      AKxx            N   E   S   W    
>> Matchpoints  AQTxx           P   1D  1H  1S   
>>              xxx             P   2C  P   P    
>>              K               2H  P   P   3C   
>>                              P   P   ?        

>Since I was North, let me comment on this.  The original article
>noted that we play our overcalls as constructive.  This means that
>the immediate single raise has to be somewhat disciplined, say 6 to
>10 support points. 

I still think pass is correct. If partner had passed throughout, 
I would not be doubling 3C with this hand. The fact that partner
has balanced into my suit actually makes it less likely, rather
than more, that 3C is going off. 

You expect to find partner with some clubs, but despite that, he
could not double 3C himself. You have to ask if your
hand has sufficient extra values to allow you to double. While
your hand has extras in offense which you have not shown, it 
has very little extra in defense.

Of course, I still consider 3H to be a very poor bid. And I am
speaking as someone who managed to go -200 three times in one
session a couple of weeks back (sigh).
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: pynq@quads.uchicago.edu (George Jetson)
Subject: Re: Funny story
Reply-To: pynq@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: D. J. Dougherty & Associates
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 16:37:01 GMT

>The bidding went:
>
>1NT on my right
>Pass
>3 NT on my left.
>All pass.
>
>Dummy came down with 1-4-4-4 distribution. Down 2, vulnerable. (I led
>a spade.) Dummy's explanation for not bidding 2 clubs (Stayman) was that
>she didn't want to describe her hand to the opponents. Everyone else 
>was in 4 hearts making.

It never works like this for me.  In a recent team game, after that same
auction, dummy hit with 5-2-4-2.  Yes, QJTxx of spades!
I asked her if maybe they don't believe in the majors...
Of course, her partner had only 2 spades and I, on lead, had 5, so it was
just as well...

My (&%*&#@) teammates were in 4S, going down, of course.

************************************************************************
A note to new readers:  the weasely :-) symbol is frowned upon in this
group.  Any questions, see Phil Gustafson who will gladly rearrange your
diodes for you.
			- From the AFU FAQ -

	- pynq@quads.uchicago.edu, who is still costing the net
	  hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars, every time he posts -
************************************************************************