From: david mardiste <dam@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Ethnic violence in ESTONIA Against Jews
Date: 14 Oct 1992 06:55:58 GMT
Organization: federalism research centre   RSSS ANU
Distribution: world
     <1992Oct13.153002.6159@Princeton.EDU> <ldm3taINNjnr@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
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Subject: Re: Ethnic violence in ESTONIA Against Jews
From: Eric Silber, silber@orfeo.Eng.Sun.COM
In article <ldm3taINNjnr@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> Eric Silber,
silber@orfeo.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>In article <1992Oct13.093058.12192@cs.hut.fi> linnan@sandman.cs.hut.fi
(Matti 
>Linnanvuori) writes:

>>  In 1944 the Germans were leaving Estonia, and the Waffen-SS troops
>>consisting of Estonians were the only way the Estonians could defend
>>their country from the Soviet invaders. It is very easy to use the
>>decision of those desperate Estonians to promote your anti-Estonian
>>rage. These SS troops did not kill any Jews, partly because the
>>Germans had already killed most of Jews living in Estonia.

>You miss entirely the point, pal! Were not all ss-troops volunteers? 
>The very idea that any Estonian, or Frenchman, or Belgian etc. was in
>the ss is an indiccation of their pre-existing racist tendancy!
>COLLABORATION with the nazis is not the same as suffering their
occupation
>or the consequences of theri occupation !!!!!!

>There is no sympathy to be lost on any damn collaborator wihth the nazis!

Hmm. A bit of interesting logic which fails to prove your point, that is
if 
the point is anti-Semite activity was strong in Estonia pre-World War II. 

your statment could only be valid if it could be proven: 
(1)that all SS units were the same: having some quality that you do not
mention 
but imply (a racially based reason for existing?, i'm not sure what you
mean, you will have to be clearer, in your statements).
(2) that all members of Estonian society were members of such SS units.
Or equally all
Estonians that served with the German froces were all members of such
units.
(3) that anyone who joined the SS units in the later stages of the war
were solely racialiy motivated for doing so.

Seriously, it is easier to prove that opposite to these points.
(1) and (3)
Waffen SS units was a straight forward combat unit which the Berlin
leadership provided as connon fodder for the front. To preserve the
"purity" of the German army all soldiers of the "inferior race" came
under the Waffen SS. This included the Estonian Legion that was formed in
the autumn of 1942.  The Estonians could never be admitted to the SS as
an organisation (the so -called  (Gr)"Allgemeine" SS). The special forces
that operated at the death camps in Klooga and Kalevi-Liiva and included
some Estonians were NOT part of the Waffen SS.
In 1944 more than 1,800 so-called Finnish boys returned to Estonia from
Finland where thay had fled to escape conscription into the German army
and fought against the Soviets. Many of them fought against the Soviets
in September 1944 near Tartu in the ranks of the 20th Waffen SS Division.
 If you know your history, I think that in 1943 The Nazi's boasted that
there was no Jews or Gypsies left in Estonia. Given that there was only
under 5000 Jews in Estonia in 1935 and the country's Jewish population
had already been murdered or deported by the Nazi orgsanisations, these
men/boys could not have come back to Estonia to murder Jews. If they
wanted to do that why did they escape the German draft in the first place
and return when the Nazis were pulling back?

Perhaps, the point is that you will find it impossible to support your
claims 
that Estonians have a history of racial discrimation. To cite the
involvement 
by some sociopaths in the murder of Jews and other inhuman activities. Is
not 
an argument for saying that all Estonians are so disturbed.