From: MATGBB@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU (BYRNES,Graham)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Very expensive cables
Date: 10 Sep 92 07:31:17 GMT
 <1992Sep9.150741.141@scic.intel.com> <1992Sep10.000119.26345@lugb.latrobe.edu.au> <1992Sep10.023020.7221@scic.intel.com>
Organization: La Trobe University
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In <1992Sep10.023020.7221@scic.intel.com> sbradley@scic.intel.com writes:
> The tough part is - who decides what circumstances, the manufacturer or
> some consumer protection agency (like the one in NYC which wants to make
> it automatic fraud to sell high-end cables).
I'm happy to go with weak conditions: let the manufacturer decide the set-up,
subject only to some hasic rules to exclude pathological cases (speakers
whose Z goes < 1 Ohm, valve or other amps with Z>.5 Ohm, cable length>10 m).
What people in my trade call an existance proof (you may not be able to make
it, but someone can).
                     
> Even Stereo Review reliably got differences in a double blind test, and
> that was with Monster Cable, which is pretty awful :-).
Between Monster and what? Are we still talking speaker cable?
It certainly will be possible to get differences: that is why I used the
qualifier "sane" in front of cable. Using 75 Ohm coax will probably
make a difference: it might change things in a way some people like, which
is fine by me. Ditto for cables made of closely placed copper strips or
other constructions that give seriously large capacitance. For these things,
you are right. Not just the R, C and L be marked, there should be a warning
saying "this cable may turn a marginally stable amp into a short lived
radio station", or words to that effect.

My problem is this. An audio sleeze goes to Pirelli or whichever manufacturer
of 50c/m cable. He pays $2/m for the same stuff with pretty coloured insulation
and his name on it. He might even stuff it through a bit of hose with cotton
packing around it. He then sells it for $50/m, with the L, C, R specs
printed on it. 

How many people out there now recognise those numbers as being completely
ordinary? Even if they do, there is the argument that those numbers
don't tell us everything (viz your wine comment), so where have the numbers
on the box got us?

As for wine, I'm not an Oenologist. I know there are measured differences
between levels of higher alcohols, sugars etc in different wines. I can imagine
the case where 2 wines could be found with the same spectrum and different
tastes, however: there are compounds which can be tasted at a concentration 
of 2-3ppb (ie parts per billion), which you are not likely to find unless
you look very hard for them. (As an aside, these critters are apparently
formed in beer when it is exposed to light...the story is that Heineken
technical people would love to get rid of the green bottles in favour of cans
or darker glass for this reason, but since the marketing people have made a 
big deal about green bottles,.... they stay).

I'm not sure the propagation of AF signals down a bit of wire is of comparable
complexity (but I like to make several mistakes a day to stay in practice 8-)
Regards,
Graham
> >And remember that wine judges test blind: they don't see the labels before
> >they taste, sunshine. So is it outrageous to ask someone to hear a cable
> >without seeing it?
> Not at all, I'm working on a DB test for interconnects, its a bit
> non-trivial to set up, though.
> >Also, MSA on wine DOES reveal differences.
> The last I heard, no qualitative differences could be obtained by such
> methods (which is "better").  Has anything new been published?
> 
> -- 
> Seth J. Bradley, Senior System Administrator, Intel SCIC
> Internet: sbradley@scic.intel.com   UUCP: uunet!scic.intel.com!sbradley
> ----------------------------------------
> "A system admin's life is a sorry one.  The only advantage he has over
> Emergency Room doctors is that malpractice suits are rare.  On the other
> hand, ER doctors never have to deal with patients installing new versions
> of their own innards!"  -Michael O'Brien
Newsgroups: rec.audio