HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: spz@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (S.P.Zeidler)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Open Letter to Dave Haynie!
Date: 5 Oct 92 19:46:32 GMT
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie

In <35530@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes:
>I can understand the CD ROM and tape backup, but nobody needs 6 hard drives.
>Larger drives go faster, so if you're really performance concerned, you'd
>dump the smaller drives or at least set them up as scratch drives.

Why should this be so ?
Given an A4k, 3 Z3 SCSI-II cards and a Ethernet card, you can have
a decent dedicated fileserver for rather cheap.
Always assuming that the soft gets better soon *bitchbitch*.

BTW, we do have machines here that have >10 disks of the order of 1GB
and larger on them, and I have no problem whatsoever to fill that space
in less than a day. In fact I spend most of my time devising ways
_not_ to fill that amount of diskspace.

regards,
	spz
--
who does astronomical high angular resolution imaging for bread & butter
From: rws@dstos3.dsto.gov.au
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: COMMODORE - HERE'S A CLUE
Date: 28 Sep 92 15:54:22 GMT
Organization: Defence Science and Technology Organisation

In article <1992Sep25.180152.21225@klaava.Helsinki.FI>, lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad) writes:
> kontos@clipper.ingr.com (Thorne Kontos) writes:
> : HEY COMMODORE, PAY ATTENTION ...
> : 
> : My opinions for what they are worth...
> : 
> : 1) Minimum CPU in any of your systems ... 68030. If a company like
> :    Atari can follow Apple's lead, then so should you. 
> 
> Atari followed Apple quite well - Apple offered a 16 bit system with
> 32 bit CPU and Atari cripples it's system by only having a single bus
> for both graphics and programs - in any case the system crawls...

This really is the worst thing atari could have done, there should have been a
fast ram type system so the processor could get on with whatever while the ST
RAM was being chewed up by the display.  Incidentally this is also the worst
design feature of the archimedes, however on the low end machine this is
minimised by the fact that the ARM2 only needs 8Mhz to get its 4.5 MIPS.  On
the ARM3 machines I beleive the built in cache helps with the bus contention
issue.  Any real figures on how much the falcon is affected for each display
mode?


> 
> --
> Jarkko Lindblad
> lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi

Russell.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: amiga@uhunix2.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (ftp Amiga Manager)
Subject: Sampling Theorem stuff (was: Re: Amiga 4000 & HYPE!...)
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 21:51:57 GMT

In article <1739@lysator.liu.se> boberg@lysator.liu.se (Stefan Boberg) writes:
>8800529@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU () writes:
>
> [lotsa stuff deleted]
>
>  Another analogy that might help understanding this theorem (Nyquist,
>which BTW is a Swedish name :-) 

To digress even further  :-), the sampling theorem was developed 
independently by a number of folks (Whittaker, Nyquist, Shannon, Ville,
Kotelnikov, Someya...) about the same time around WWII in conjunction
with developing radar technology, I think.  Who gets credit for the theorem 
is usually dependent on which country you are in and which of the researchers 
hail from said country.

--
  // uhunix amiga archive | amiga@ftp.hawaii.edu         | ftp: ftp.hawaii.edu
\X/  my alter ego account | baron@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu |      128.171.44.7
From: Hans_Bergengren@p1.thulos.bbs.bad.se (Hans Bergengren)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: COMMODORE - HERE'S A CLUE
Date: 3 Oct 92 16:18:39 GMT
Reply-To: Hans_Bergengren@p1.thulos.bbs.bad.se (Hans Bergengren)
Organization: THULOS!, STROMSTAD, SWEDEN
OD-Comment-To: Gregory_R_Block


 GR> Not even Atari was dumb enough to try and create a custom chip that
 GR> did 16-bit audio, the job is much better given to a DSP to handle.

It's NOT! Suppose you want the DSP to do other stuff, like voice recognition,
image enhancing, or 3D graphics, or any other of that nice stuff a DSP can do,
why waste bandwidth on such a simple task as outputting audio?


   /  /
  /--/
 /  /B - No Mr. Nice-Guy Anymore...

--- Point Manager 3.00 Beta Unreg.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: stud11@cc4.kuleuven.ac.be (Lode Vande Sande)
Distribution: world
Date: Thursday, 1 Oct 1992 13:11:13 +01
Organization: K.U.Leuven - Academic Computing Center
Subject: Re: Struggling computer science student needs a free A4000.
Keywords: Money, money, ... M.O.N.E.Y. !!!

Well, I think my method has more chances of succeeding ...

To all news-readers out there ...

I'm a poor CS student who really needs an A4000 to replace the broken
A500 he has ... All the rich folks out there are already being
exploited by other net-guys, so I won't ask them to send me a lot
of cash.  Instead I would like to ask *ALL* of you to send me at
least $1, that way I'll get the money and none of you will have to
contribute huge amounts of it.  So, send $1 or more to

                Kurt Haenen
                Homsemstraat 53
                3891 Borlo
                Belgium

I hope to get my A4000 real soon now ...
From: tevonian@dcl-nxt01 (Pete Tevonian)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: My next machine: Amiga or PC Clone? Help me out.
Date: 29 Sep 92 05:58:29 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

dtiberio@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:

>In article <1992Sep25.174831.11207@news2.cis.umn.edu> 
coult@poincare.geom.umn.edu (coult) writes:

>>Recently, I've seen adds touting _extremely_ fast PC clones
>>(For example, I saw an add for a Dell 66Mhz 486 DX2 with 4 megs of ram,
>				       ^^^^^

>	The 486 25Mhz is about 20 mips. Therefor the 66Mhz must be about
>50 mips. Is it? I expect it to be more like 30 mips. Now that is not any
>faster than the 68040 at 33Mhz, unless of course I am wrong.

The Dell 66 DX2 system is rated at 29.3MIPS by PowerMeter 1.5. Dunno
about the 040.

>-- 
>      //   David Tiberio  SUNY Stony Brook 516-473-5156 AMIGA  DDD-MEN   
>     //  bounce-resistant:    dtiberio%libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu@sunysb.edu
>   \X/	 "Who will PROTECT TRUTH when I no LONGER HERE?!!"  - Jeff Young

--Pete Tevonian
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ccb8m@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Charles C. Bundy)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: PC -vs- Amiga in Math
Date: 27 Sep 92 20:38:17 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia Computer Science Department
Originator: ccb8m@onyx.cs.Virginia.EDU

My two cents on picking an Amiga or an Intel Clone:

If you are going to be doing a lot of number crunching, and you
don't need animated visual display go with the Intel box.  In
terms of raw number crunching the Amiga doesn't keep up with
a 486 or Weitek based Intel 386.

If you want to do some dazzling presentations, would like to be
running something in conjunction with your math programs, or
want to do some memory intensive stuff, go with a motorola
based Amiga.

Bottom line - software and compatibility at school.

The Intel box has tons of stuff (Mathematica, Maple, Math CAD, etc)
Most educational institutions use Messy Dog machines + WordPerfect.
Most journal submissions require WordPerfect (unfortunately) format,
tho many will accept other text formats w/ conversion fees & delay
to print.  The Amiga can be used in this scenario, it just requires
more work on the part of the user to interface with a Messy Dog
mindset.  (Please don't yowl about MS-DOS = Messy Dog.  It was a
wonderful accomplishment in 1980, its just a pity that MS hasn't
improved upon it.)

If you don't want to deal with interoperability issues, and you
want extensive software and support go with the Intel box.  In
your case of running math programs it will be the best choice.

Charles C. Bundy IV
From: Holt@cheme.washington.edu (Brad Holt)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Some random thoughts on the A4000
Date: 28 Sep 92 02:50:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: 128.Holt-270992195154
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Organization: Chemical Engineering, U Washington

> 
> The Quadra does have LocalTalk built in, along with all the other Macs. It is
> misinformation however to say that it has Ethernet Built in. (It is a partial
> truth). To get the Quadra's "built in" ethernet to work, you must buy an
> Ethernet Tranceiver for $187.50 w/ tax. This Tranciever is poorly designed, 
> in that moving your Mac to a new location means "breaking" the Ethernet cabling.
>  

   It costs us $59 here.  
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: boberg@lysator.liu.se (Stefan Boberg)
Subject: Re: A4000 at WOC
Organization: Lysator Academic Computer Society, Linkoping University, Sweden
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 10:28:55 GMT

peter@cbmvax.commodore.com (Peter Cherna) writes:

>Some of the operations you mention have always been pretty high-performance.
>Our graphics engineers, by the way, take a lot of pride in the performance
>boosts they were able to achieve.  The biggest boost is probably in
>ScrollVPort() (I think Chris Green told me it's faster by a factor of 20).

>Double-buffering support is great under 3.0.  The most important aspect of
>   <....>

  There's one thing I wonder: Is it possible to change the bitmap pointers
somewhere mid-way through a ViewPort by using OS calls? You see, this is
necessary to get any kind of performance when making vertically scrolling
games. Using two ViewPorts is not an option since this introduces at least
one blank scanline (not acceptable).

  I.e. like this (hope you understand this messy diagram):

                   +----------------+
                   |   Off-screen   |
                   | rendering area |
 BplPtr = x + n -->+----------------+
                   |                |
                   |                |
 BplPtr = x     -->|                |<--- Here we currently use the
                   |                |     copper to change the bitmap
                   |                |     pointers. Can it be done
                   +----------------+     through the OS?
                   |   Off-screen   |
                   | rendering area |
                   +----------------+

  n changes when we scroll up and down, of course.

  Could one use the system copper functions in this case, and would
it be legal?

>     Peter
>--
>Peter Cherna, User Interface Development Group, Commodore-Amiga, Inc.
--
Stefan Boberg - AP & EE student at Linkoping Institute of Technology, Sweden
 Author of LhA, ArjA and LhArcA. Co-author of Alien Breed, Project X ...
  EMail: boberg@lysator.liu.se, lha@augs.se           FIDO: 2:204/404.7
    UUCP:  {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmehq!cbmswe!team17!boberg
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: AmigaDOS differences-
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 19:59:36 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Sep13.180938.8263@ra.msstate.edu> <92262.121638KXN2@psuvm.psu.edu>
  <1992Sep19.041054.19977@nntp.uoregon.edu>
  <1992Sep20.013021.2088@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu>
  <35371@cbmvax.commodore.com> <#zfz08@rpi.edu>

>Now, how about the fan? Still grunge up once a year or so?
>
>BTW: I know this is the wrong area, but is the A2000 fan "standard" equipment?
>I'd assume Commodore didn't have a fan built Just For Them... so I **SHOULD**
>be able to get a replacement at some place like Radio Shack, if I know the
>power requirements and approx. speed...
>
>Riiiight?

Riiight. But don't get the Radio Shack fans. They will die every 2 years or
so. Get something with decent bearings that will last at least as long as
the computer. They cost all of $2 more than the radio shack variety.

TomK@cup.portal.com
Tom Krotchko
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: bill@snoopy (Bill Poitras)
Subject: Re: Its a sad sad day...
Reply-To: bill@msi.com
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 02:34:44 GMT

Frank R. Dana Jr. (danaf@bray1a.its.rpi.edu) wrote:
: In article <1992Sep28.201732.19672@msi.com>, bill@snoopy (Bill Poitras) writes:
: |> We don't have to.  The PC clone makers have become innovative and made it
: |> so a system can be upgraded by just replacing the CPU card or just adding
: |> a CPU to a special motherboard socket.
: 
: WOW! A "CPU slot"!!! Geez, what a great idea! Why didn't Jay and R.J. think of
: that one??? You PC guys have all the luck.

<Sigh>.  The _special_ motherboard socket is designed to take ANOTHER CPU
in addition to the one already in the system when you get it.  When the
_special_ motherboard socket is filled with a faster CPU, the system gets
faster.

--
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Bill Poitras    | Molecular Simulations Inc.    | Tel (408)522-9229       |
| (bill)          | Sunnyvale, CA USA             |                         | 
|                 | FAX (408)732-0831             | bill@msi.com            |
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: Chris_Millar@lppl.mi.org (Chris Millar)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: REAL FALCON 030 SPECS
Distribution: world
Date: 29 Sep 92 00:40:47 EST
Organization: Les's Place BBS

About the combined video/memory bus, etc....
Atari installed a new BLITTER chip in the Falcon - technically, it is not a
Blitter, but a multi-purpose I/O processor - it is called the COMBEL - it
handles a great deal of disk reads and writes and all of the video mode
handlings......the bandwidth limitations lie in the COMBEL's ability to
process the video, and nothing else - and if you think the Falcon's video
is slow, you have obviously never seen one - it zips!
Oh, BTW, since the 68030 doesn't handle video, it is realistically rated at
4.5 MIPS.....

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992
From: spamboy@illiterate.edu (Yeff Jung)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: RE:Amiga 4000 bites donkey wangs
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 16:43:20 GMT
Organization: illiterate.edu: Illiterate's public Network
Reply-To: your ugly ass
Distribution: us
Keywords: up,your,bloody,bum
Summary: Anthem of Doom for Commodore
X-Mailer: uAccess - Mac Release: 1.5

I LUST FOR MARC BARRET, YOW!

________________________
|spamboy@illiterate.edu|       "Why ask why?"- Beer Commercial
________________________
From: lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: COMMODORE - HERE'S A CLUE
Date: 4 Oct 92 21:22:21 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

Hans_Bergengren@p1.thulos.bbs.bad.se (Hans Bergengren) writes:
: 
:  FR> While that LCD is the 68000, we're not gonna see a LOT
:  FR> of really good A4000 software.
: 
: Why not? With the 040's backward compatibility, it will run 68000 code up to
: 25 times faster than an A500 (extreme case, I know), but this is no

More like an average case - extreme case would use floating points and
the difference in speed would be perhaps x200 or so...

:  FR> A few specialized applications, sure, but nothing major.
: 
: Real '040 optimization will be rare until the user base is big enough, but in
: the meanwhile, we can study the raw power in the '040 and enjoy an average 13x
: speed increase (at 28 MHz)...

Hmm, I wonder from what you got the 13x increase in speed - a 25 MHz
68030 is perhaps 7 times faster (probably more) than 68000 @7MHz,
68040 is perhaps 3-4 times faster than 030 at the same clockspeed....

Of course these numbers only apply to number crunching, not for
drawing graphics or accessing disks or any such things.

--
Jarkko Lindblad
lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mettinen@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Kari J Mettinen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: a4000
Summary: Amiga + 64 software = YES
Keywords: 64 Emulator, Amiga
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:18:46 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <1992Oct5.4477.30478@dosgate> "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com> writes:

> So true, Too bad Commodore never went after these users with Hardware
>emulators. To think, we can emulate an IBM 286/386 and a Mac but we
>can't emulate an Apple II or Comomdore 64. I have a lot of friends who

  Actually there is a 64 emulator for Amiga :-) I remember reading about
it in a local magazine, so if somebody is interested I can dig it up.

>--
>Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
>World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
-- 
INTERNET:mettinen@cc.helsinki.fi   | _ // |  
         Kari.Mettinen@helsinki.fi | \X/  |  
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com>
Subject: real falcon 030 specs
Reply-To: "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: comp
Date: 4 Oct 92 19:26:30 EST


EK> But it's still nice to see how many applications run faster on a
EK>humble Atari 520ST computer (compared to an Amiga 500).

 It's even nicer seeing Atari ST programs running on an Amiga 500 with an
Atari Emulator at a faster speed then they do on an Atari ST!

          robert.buonincontro&canrem.com
---
  DeLuxe 1.12 #8947  AMIGA : The Power To Be Creative!
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: 24 hours of advocacy...
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 18:36:40 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.155415.9818@crc.ac.uk> ifenton@crc.ac.uk (I. Fenton) writes:
>dear net,
>
>looking at teh various advocacy groups here, i notice what 24 hours worth
>of advocacy leads to :-
>
>  comp.os.os2         103 postings (mostly os/2 vs. windows-nt)
>  comp.sys.amiga       89 postings (mostly amiga vs. atari falcon)
>  comp.sys.mac         62 postings (mostly mac vs. pc's)
>  comp.os.mw-windows   24 postings (mostly is windows an os ?)
>  comp.sys.next        15 postings (mostly should nextstep be cheaper)
>  comp.sys.acorn        5 postings (mostly about acorn's share price)
>
>as can be seen most of the discussion is about one system vs. another, rather
>than discussion about that particular os/system.  this is interesting as most
>groups have their zealots saying that other people should leave their group
>alone.  does the net have any comment on these figures ?!

One.

Did you read those groups for 24 hours and COUNT all those 
posts??

>IAIN FENTON                             | All errors of spelling, grammar &
>Email = fenton@uk.ac.cardiff | permission to board the Titanic because of
-- 
*Dan Stephenson   das9674@usl.edu  
*
* "To conquer death, you only have to die,..."                   
*                             -Jesus , from _Jesus Christ Superstar_
From: bobl@bobsbox.rent.com (Bob Lindabury - SysAdm)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Open Letter to Dave Haynie!
Date: 2 Oct 92 13:39:41 GMT
Organization: Raven Enterprises -- Piscataway, NJ USA
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (9/26/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith

In article <35530@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes:
> In article <1992Sep25.161306.21709@cs.mcgill.ca> storm@cs.mcgill.ca (Marc WANDSCHNEIDER) writes:
>
> >and why the stupid morons at Commodore decided to put an IDE interface
> >instead of the obviously superior SCSI-II interface???
>
> It was a management decision, most likely predicated on cost and the theory
> that "50-million PClones can't be wrong".  Now, most of here know that
> 50-million PClones must be wrong in some way, or we wouldn't waste any time
> with Amigas.  That's not necessarily the opinion of the average A4000 buyer,
> only time will tell.  As I have stated, I would prefer SCSI myself.

I don't see what all the fuss is about.  Just because SCSI is not part
of the system doesn't mean we can't use one anyway.  Now instead of
having SCSI built in, we have to purchase a 3rd party SCSI card.  Not
that big of a deal if you ask me.  I don't mind IDE drives at all as
I've been using them on my (erg) IBM AT.  They seem plenty fast enough
for most applications.  Besides, SCSI cards are not that expensive OR
hard to come by for the Amiga.

>
> >I want to have at LEAST 6 hard drives, a tape backup and a CD ROM in my
> >machine.
>
> I can understand the CD ROM and tape backup, but nobody needs 6 hard drives.
> Larger drives go faster, so if you're really performance concerned, you'd
> dump the smaller drives or at least set them up as scratch drives.

Well, I'm running UUCP with CNews and other items like that.  In this
case the use of several smaller drives for spool, news, binaries, etc.,
is better than churning all that away on a single large drive.

I think the bottom line is that while putting IDE on the motherboard may
be an inconvienient decision for those of us with lots of SCSI
peripherals, it certainly isn't restricting us from using these devices.

--
 Bob Lindabury

InterNet: bobl@bobsbox.rent.com                | Raven Enterprises
    UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!bobl              | 25 Raven Avenue
  BitNet: bobl%bobsbox.rent.com@pucc           | Piscataway, NJ 08854
  Home #: +1 908/560-7353                      | +1 908/271-8878
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: trevore@vast.unsw.edu.au (Trevor Elbourne (Supr. Hell) BE)
Subject: Re: AGA compatible graphics board
Organization: University of New South Wales
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 00:29:45 GMT

: Will it be some kind of AGA 'super emulator' for A3000 and A2000 then?
: Sounds really nice! How expensive do you think it is going to be compared to 
: the available third-party graphic boards that we can buy today?
: 
: 
: --
: ***************************************************************************
: * Per Salmi         * Voice: +46-13-172267            * - Fusion Forty -  *
: * BJKG. 15B:12      * BBS:   +46-13-172333 (AUGS BBS) *                   *
: * S-58251 Linkoping * e-mail: per_salmi@augs.se       * the SPARC killer! *
: * SWEDEN            * FidoNet: Per Salmi 2:204/404.0  *                   *
: ***************************************************************************
  
  Yes its going to emulate the AGA modes as well as doing a few others,
  like 1024x768 and 1280x1024 for example. With C= urging developers
  to write system friendly software, the board shouldn't have very
  many software incompatibility problems. Of course earlier software
  which uses the hardware directly wont work here, but neither will
  it work on new C= machines either.  

  The aim is to make it a lot cheaper. My opinion is that current
  graphics boards are *way* too expensive for the average joe,
  take a look at GVP's graphics board its around the $3000 mark,
  hell that's more than I paid for my A2000+68030+6 MEGS RAM+120 HD !!
  Though at this stage I cannot say how much cheaper, but our
  initial hopes are that it will sell for under $1000.

Cheers,
-Trevor
From: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kelvin Leung)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 in stores by October 7
Date: 3 Oct 92 15:20:21 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

blackbelt@cup.portal.com (Ben - Williams) writes:

>My dealer HAS his a40000's, and in fact, mine was shipped to me today. :^)

>Ben

Someone told me the A4000 comes with a 68ec040 instead of 68040... is it 
a rumor or is it a truth?  How much does a 68ec040 cost and how much does a
68040 cost?  

Curious,
Kelvin
e-mail:abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy