HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rallan@gun.com (Robb Aley Allan)
Subject: Zen Buddhist NeXTers?
Reply-To: rallan@gun.com
Organization: Helical Systems, Ltd.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 15:36:56 GMT

Nosy writes
   <In article <1992Jul16.133341.2390@afs.com> Michael_Pizolato@afs.com (Michael  
Pizolato) writes:
   <   In article <1992Jul15.172253.14723@cs.mcgill.ca> samurai@uriel.cs.mcgill.ca  
      (Darcy Brockbank) writes:
   <   > I prefer NeXTstep, since it goes with NeXTstation and NeXTdimension,
   <   > but it seems that the holy way of writing it is NeXTSTEP. I guess
   <   > you're supposed to shout it. Sounds like a Zen Buddhist thing :-).
   
   <   I'M A ZEN BUDDHIST, AND I DON'T SHOUT!!!
   
   <   Uh, oh, sorry.
   
   <   Does NeXTSTEP have Buddha nature?
   
   > 	Mu



OK. How many NeXT users out there are Zen Buddhists? (I am.)

And besides: isn't it
	MUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!
?

-- 
Robb Aley Allan, The Gulfstream Group
220 Sunrise Avenue, Palm Beach, FL 33480
voice: 407/ 832-4013   email: rallan@helical.com
Co-founder/director, Gotham Users of NeXT (GUN)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: peer@ccrma.stanford.edu (Peer Landa)
Subject: Define a new platform . . 
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 16:54:52 GMT


Incidentally, while SGI now releases an 85 mips 16 mflop Indigo @ $12,000 --  
SGI's president & CEO Ed McCracken said this about NeXT's CEO Steve Jobs in  
MicroTimes July 6:

"The world doesn't have very many computer companies left that are defining  
platforms; really trying to figure out how people want to use computers and  
defining a platform of software and hardware to provide that. Silicon Graphics  
is one of them that are still doing that, and I admire the fact that Steve Jobs  
is also doing that. Steve is trying to define a new platform. So many companies  
today are just copying what other companies do, and cloning them. It's nice to  
see a company that's willing to do the hard work of really defining how people  
are going to use computers and trying to design a platform that fits their  
needs. 
Whether it does that or not is another story. Frankly we haven't focused on it  
a lot; we don't compete with NeXT a lot. We've been focused more on our own  
customers and how to serve their needs better. Again I think we're caught up  
there in the RISC vs. CISC wars -- we really believe in high-performance RISC  
processors, I think the NeXT machines tend to be very low-performance machines  
compared to what our customer want. But you admire the fact that he's doing  
some good stuff there, and it is a new kind of platform. It's through  
experimentation and new ideas that things happen."

-- peer

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: tswan@trirex.com (Todd Swan)
Subject: Re: NeXT used in Ad Business
Reply-To: tswan@trirex.com
Organization: Trirex Systems Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 20:52:54 GMT

In article <CsR-yg_@engin.umich.edu> zmonster@engin.umich.edu (Eric  
Hermanson) writes:
>  Does anyone know of any advertising companies that use 
> NeXT systems for ad layout, photo retouching, cpm
> typesetting, etc?

Um, don't you have to actually *advertise* to need a advertising company?   
:-)  Well, I guess if you look at Ross Perot...  :-)

Todd
--
  "We're only immortal,   | Todd M. Swan
  for a limited time..."  | tswan@trirex.com
    -- Neil Peart,        | Westport, CT
    "Dreamline," Rush     | New York, NY
From: ernest@pundit.cithep.caltech.edu (Ernest Prabhakar)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXT Computer and Object Design Announce Joint Development Agreement
Date: 24 Jul 92 23:49:25 GMT
Reply-To: ernest@pundit.cithep.caltech.edu (Ernest Prabhakar)
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena

In article <4471@rosie.NeXT.COM> Conrad_Geiger@NeXT.com (International NeXT  
User Groups) writes:
> NeXT Computer and Object Design Announce Joint Development Agreement
> 
> Partnership Will Create Next-Generation Object-Oriented Storage
....
Okay, I heard about this at ObjectWorld, but I'm still trying to process what  
it means.  ObjectStore is described as a "layer on top of traditional file  
systems and networks" in the ObjectWare Catalog, and is written in C++.  The  
questions I'd like answered are:

a) Is this the real 'object-oriented' file system that has been bandied about?   
Is it possible to fake a Unix file system on top of it, or will the Unix file  
system always be underneath?

b) Will it support Objective-C?  If not, will we migrate to C++?

c) What's the timeframe?  NextStep 4.0, I imagine, which means what, late 1994?

d) If we combine this with a tool-based metaphor (versus application-based),  
will we basically have something that looks like Taligent?

Or perhaps I should be asking this in comp.object?

_ Ernie P.

--
Ernest N. Prabhakar                  Caltech High Energy Physics
Member, League for Programming Freedom (league@prep.ai.mit.edu)
CaJUN President        NeXTMail:ernest@pundit.cithep.caltech.edu
"...and ourselves, your servants for Jesus sake." - II Cor 5:13a
#import <std/disclaimer.h>
From: banshee@cats.ucsc.edu (Wailer at the Gates of Dawn)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: 486 vs NeXT for home fun
Date: 26 Jul 92 22:59:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


I'm not asking you to compare apples and oranges... so unclench on your
bits.  I've gotten to the point where I am going to buy a nice home computer.
My price range is approx $4000 and since I work QA in a MS windows environment,
a 486 is the logical first choice.  However I am lured by mathmatica and unix
and the rough prices for used Nexts that I've seen on the net.  Could someone
mail me a summary of the Next types?  I'm pretty certain that I'd want a color
system but I'd like to know about the others too.

-- 
The Wailer at the Gates of Dawn              | banshee@cats.UCSC.EDU       |
Just who ARE you calling a FROOFROO Head?    |                             |
DoD#0667  "Just a friend of the beast."      | banshee@ucscb.UCSC.EDU      |
2,3,5,7,13,17,19,31,61,89,107,127,521,607....| banshee@ucscb.BITNET        |
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: ray@mtl.mit.edu (Ray Ghanbari)
Subject: Re: Open letter to NextDevelopers (long)(Flamebait)
Organization: MIT Microsystems Technology Laboratories
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:30:01 GMT


(After that oh so eloquent "buggy" newsreader post, here is what NG
should have sent out...)

In article <1992Jul20.230813.26811@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca> sherwood@fenris.space.ualberta.ca (Sherwood Botsford) writes:
> 	
> Case in point:
> 	I downloaded EquationBuilder immediately on reading the announcement,  
> as it fills a function that several of my users have asked about.
> 		I read the doc file.  The program runs for two minutes, and  
> then quits.  One of my users wants to know how EqB handles multiline equations.   
> He can maybe type in three lines of equations in two minutes?  Another wants to  
> see how the various options interact in producing tex files, and so he wants to  
> print the file after each change.  Right.  Another wants to see how EqB  
> interacts with WriteNow, WordPerfect, Edit, FrameMaker, Diagram, Adobe  
> Illustrator, and Create.  Another wants to find out if he can easily use  
> characters from the Shalom or Cyrillic Fonts.  Another has half an equation  
> typed in, but times out while hunting for the set intersection symbol.  With a  
> two minute timeout, this is not a useful package.
> 	Twenty minutes, maybe.  It would be a nuisance to have to restart it  
> three times per hour.  People who needed it for a single equation wouldn't  
> register it.  People who used it day after day would pester me to get them a  
> copy.	
> 

Sherwood raises a lot of interesting points in his post.  I certainly
have felt similar frustrations myself.  It just hurts to see our
EquationBuilder app used as an example (ouch)

We agree that two minutes is not much time to demo an application.
However, we thought that it would be sufficient for a user to test
one concept or idea on each launch.  We hoped that by including our
120 page manual in the distribution already indexed for Digital
Librarian would help answer peoples questions (eg search for
multiline and Chapter 8: Multiline Equations pops up, or search
for FrameMaker and Appendix D: Working with other Applications
pops up).

But there is still the larger question of whether people prefer
crippled demos that run indefinitely, or fully functional demos
that die after some fixed time.  The jury seems to still be out
on this one.  It is just as easy for us to do either.  It depends
on what the community prefers.  (Perhaps both?)

Regardless, if someone feels that they need more time to evaluate
our app, just drop us a note and we will do our best to be accommodating.

Ray Ghanbari
Digital Tool Works
(617) 742-4057
ray@dtw.com
ray@mtl.mit.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: andrew@cubetech.com (Andrew Loewenstern)
Subject: Re: NeXTWORLD: Anybody else miss DockSoup???
Organization: Cube Technologies, Inc.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 00:29:45 GMT

In article <62456@cup.portal.com> midiapolis@cup.portal.com (Gerard Thomas Schwarz) writes:
>Is there anybody out there (besides me) that misses NeXTWORLD's
>DockSoup? DockSoup was in the first 2 issues of NeXTWORLD (Premier 
>and April 91) but hasn't been since. It was a wrap up of all
>third-party products for NeXTSTEP. It had a description of the
>products, the company phone number, etc. and the NeXTWORLD ratings
>(kind of like what MacUser used to do).
>
>I thought it was a good department then and is a much needed on now
>because it gives people just picking up NeXTWORLD for the first time
>to see the great software available for it. It would also give
>developers some free press which in the long run would benefit the
>NeXT environment and NeXTWORLD.

NeXT publishes the Software and Peripherals catalogue which contains
the same information, with longer descriptions, sans the ratings.  So
much software has come out since those first issues that a complete
dock-soup would be very large indeed and very few would have ratings.


andrew
-- 
andrew@cubetech.com
Andrew Loewenstern      | "If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
Cube Technologies, Inc. |  If I am only for myself, who am I?" -Hillel
From: glenn@rightbrain.com (Glenn Reid)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: RightBrain ad in Fall '92 NeXTWORLD
Date: 23 Jul 92 12:27:47 GMT
Reply-To: glenn@rightbrain.com

attila@liveware.com writes
> Agreed, the Pasteup ad is big and yes you would have to be empty
> headed not to wonder what the hell it is for.  But after reading
> the ad, hype and general silliness of the ad there seems
> to be a lack of technical information in the advert.

Advertising is supposed to get your attention, not be full of details.
The more technical content, the less likely you will read it.
All you have to do is call us, and we'll send you more technical
information than would fit in the ad, anyway.  Although I tend to
think that people spend more time reading ads in NeXTWORLD than in
most magazines, since it's quarterly, and since there's not much else
out there to read :-)

>                                           I laugh at the ad
> as it is funny and effective in getting me to stop and
> wonder what the hell it is going to say, but after reading
> the ad I came away with little more knowledge of the product
> as a whole than I had prior to reading it.

Glad you liked the ad!  We still chuckle about it around here.
I'm sorry there's not a bit more information in it, but we figured
the main job was to tell you that it was a page layout program.

Drop us an Email at "info@rightbrain.com" for more information....

--
 Glenn Reid        		NeXTmail: glenn@rightbrain.com
 RightBrain Software		415-326-2974 (NeXTfax 326-2977)
 Palo Alto, California
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: derek@oceania.com (Derek Collison)
Subject: Re: Define a new platform . . 
Reply-To: derek@oceania.com
Organization: Oceania Health Care Systems
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 19:00:16 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.165452.6057@leland.Stanford.EDU>  
peer@ccrma.stanford.edu (Peer Landa) writes:
> 
> Incidentally, while SGI now releases an 85 mips 16 mflop Indigo @  
$12,000 --  
> SGI's president & CEO Ed McCracken said this about NeXT's CEO Steve Jobs  
in  
> MicroTimes July 6:
> 
> "The world doesn't have very many computer companies left that are  
defining  
> platforms; really trying to figure out how people want to use computers  
and  
> defining a platform of software and hardware to provide that. Silicon  
Graphics  
> is one of them that are still doing that, and I admire the fact that  
Steve Jobs  
> is also doing that. Steve is trying to define a new platform. So many  
companies  
> today are just copying what other companies do, and cloning them. It's  
nice to  
> see a company that's willing to do the hard work of really defining how  
people  
> are going to use computers and trying to design a platform that fits  
their  
> needs. 
> Whether it does that or not is another story. Frankly we haven't focused  
on it  
> a lot; we don't compete with NeXT a lot. We've been focused more on our  
own  
> customers and how to serve their needs better. Again I think we're  
caught up  
> there in the RISC vs. CISC wars -- we really believe in high-performance  
RISC  
> processors, I think the NeXT machines tend to be very low-performance  
machines  
> compared to what our customer want. But you admire the fact that he's  
doing  
> some good stuff there, and it is a new kind of platform. It's through  
> experimentation and new ideas that things happen."
> 
> -- peer
> 


Wouldn't it be great, SGI Indigo running NeXTSTEP 3.0!! We can only hope  
that some unknown meetings are happening!

=derek
-- 
Derek Collison <---> derek@oceania.com  
Oceania Health Care Systems             
325 Lytton Avenue   Palo Alto, CA 94301 
(NeXT Mail accepted)
From: cjd@ukc.ac.uk (C.J.Durrant)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: $$$ NeXT Developer Support $$$
Date: 26 Jul 92 15:57:27 GMT
Reply-To: cjd@ukc.ac.uk (C.J.Durrant)
Organization: Computing Lab, University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.

[evidence of NeXT's death-wish deleted]

It's possible that NeXT have been under pressure from the larger developers to
stop giving nearly-free support in order to create more of a market for
consultancy/training firms. Remember when they removed BackSpace in case it
stifled third party efforts? And the same with WriteNow?

Also here is an announcement which appeared recently:

>AUSTIN, TX - June 29, 1992 - Pencom Software is doubling its staff of
>NeXT engineers in order to launch a training and consulting team
>specifically dedicated to serving both developers and end user
>organizations equipped with workstations from NeXT Computer, Inc.
>Already a NeXT-authorized systems integrator as well as a NeXT
>software developer, Pencom has added the new services in order to
>capitalize on the growth NeXT has recently experienced in key
>vertical markets, particularly the financial services industry.
>
>The new training services will be performed in some cases with
>NeXTedge, NeXT's service and support group, which Pencom will assist
>with post-sales support and possibly other activities that will be
>announced at a later date. "Pencom has been involved with NeXT on
>many levels -- as a customer, a product developer and as a co-bidder
>on several projects," said Ed Taylor, President of Pencom Software.
>"We are excited to embark upon a whole new relationship with NeXT
>through our expanded services."

I would guess that Pencom were well aware of the fothcoming change
in NeXT's policy (at the very least)...
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: esky@marathon.cs.ucla.edu (Eskandar Ensafi)
Subject: Cube Owners -- Are we shut out from RISC Upgrades?
Keywords: cube risc
Reply-To: esky@marathon.cs.ucla.edu
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 18:15:50 GMT

Hi,

Things are getting confusing now.  First someone posted than the rumored NeXT  
RISC Workstation (NRW or NeXTbrick) will have a 64-bit bus with a new, smaller  
form factor.  Then someone said that it will NOT be offered as a cube upgrade.   
Many posts appeared in comp.sys.next.advocacy, and finally came some VERY  
UNOFFICIAL GOOD NEWS:

* The backplane of the cube could be upgraded to support the 64-bit bus.
* The new form-factor would either fit in the cube.
* NeXT has decided to maintain the cube shape after all.

Then came some VERY DISTURBING POSTS, something along these lines:

* The cube will be dropped or made obsolete by the new form factor.
* No RISC or backplane upgrades for cubes -- EVER!!!

And then people stopped posting articles favoring maintaining the cube and  
upgrading it to a 64-bit bus w/ a RISC CPU... What happened?  You mean no one  
cares anymore?

Come on, people, do something.  Either get at the truth about the NRW, express  
your ideas or try to save the cube from a 680x0-bound future, if it even has a  
future at all!

- Eskandar Ensafi
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Stupid trivia
From: jhb@ezra.sfasu.edu (Jim Bills)
Date: 25 Jul 92 14:40:51 CST
Keywords: Kyeboard

In article <2A649261.1D47@deneva.sdd.trw.com>  writes:
> MKK2@psuvm.psu.edu writes
> >    But lately, I've seen an increased use of NeXTSTEP ...
> 
> NeXTSTEP appears to have been the new lexical standard as of NeXTWORLD
> Exposition in January ... it was started by NeXT.
> 
> Mark R. Thomsen

It probably is due to the BrainDEAD NeXT keyboard.  Most likey somebody got  
stuck in AlphaLock mode ;-)

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: shiva@vega.Stanford.EDU (Marcos Javier Polanco)
Subject: Re: NeXT to ship128MB EO's as replacements for 3.5" drives--Nice thought?
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 17:57:15 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.161155.28725@cs.yale.edu>  
nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette) writes:
> In article <1992Jul23.224330.189@digifix!uunet.ca> sanguish@digifix.com  
(Scott  
> Anguish) writes:
> > 	$49 for media is too high for product distribution.
> > 
> >  	Don't get me wrong, the MO format is my preferred form of  
archiving  
> > data, but I don't want it as the primary distribution media.

If NeXT were to innovate at this point, would it not make more sense to  
just wait for Sony's MiniDisc instead? Same capacity as a CD, 3.5" form  
factor, and read/writeable. Since Sony is pushing it as a distribution  
medium for music, it has got to be cheap. Now THAT would be innovation.

-Marcos J. Polanco
-shiva@vega.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: eer1@midway.uchicago.edu(Paul Woods)
Subject: Re: Publicity in Unix Review
Reply-To: eer1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:07:16 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.151531.1455@afs.com> greg@afs.com (Gregory H. Anderson)  
writes

 [PID]
 
> Even with the mistakes and oversights, it's a review. It's publicity. It's  
> invaluable. I'm getting tired of hearing "Oh yeah, NeXT, are they still  
> around? Haven't heard anything about them lately." Most people remember  
> that you GOT reviewed, not all of the hosed-up content. Keep it up!

They also received first billing in "Open Systems Today".  The article talked  
about how NeXT was trying to join the OMG and have most of it's object  
technology incorporated into any standard that the OMG defines.  

Most of the time I read an article about NeXT, it's usually a dig at the  
company.  I don't know what they have to do to get good coverage, but I do know  
that most of the people that write the articles that I read, are not very  
honest or fair IMO.


Paul-

 
> --
> Gregory H. Anderson          | "We're very tolerant around here,
> Benevolent Dictator-for-Life |  being only amateurs ourselves."
> Anderson Financial Systems   | - Tortoise (Godel, Escher, Bach)
> greg@afs.com  (Nextmail OK)  | 

--



____________________________________
	Paul R. Woods
     University of Chicago
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: zenon@resonex.com (Zenon Fortuna)
Subject: Re: $$$ NeXT Developer Support $$$
Organization: Resonex Inc., Sunnyvale CA
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 00:04:03 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.163142.1466@weigele.de> schnuffi.weigele.de!martin (Martin Weigele) writes:
>In article <1992Jul18.044311.22753@leland.Stanford.EDU>  
>marcu@leland.Stanford.EDU (Marc Albert Ullman) writes:
>> I was just curious if anyone else was somewhat dismayed/alarmed by the
>> fact that it now costs $225.00 to ask NeXT a technical question (by
>> e-mail no less).  A recent mailing to (presumably all) registered developers
>> states:
>> 
>
>In Germany, the situation is even more ridiculous. NeXT Germany has apparently
>closed down their local technical support entirely. It seems NeXT is letting  
>down their promoters entirely.
>
>-- 
>Martin Weigele, Kapellenweg 32, D-W-5300 Bonn 2
>phone +49 228 333252 home, +49 228 9866385 office
>email: martin@weigele.de

Bad news.

But there are some bright spots: again I observe increased activity of NeXT
employees on the Net (recently in the *.hardware and *sysadmin groups).
It is interesting, whether NeXT allows its employees to react, or they are
just positivists by nature, and cannot just watch problems of the NeXT
community without wish to help ?

It may be one of solutions for the future: increasing the frequency of reactions
on the Net, answering quickly shorter questions, ignoring the obvious ones,
thus leaving only the more complex for $225 charge.
This strategy would even simplify for NeXT collection of FAQ.
Why not ?

	-Z.

PS. I know, not everybody has access to NEWS, but in any case to arrange it
would be LESS expensive than to rely on official support only.
From: chris@island.COM (Chris King)
Subject: Re: Objective C for other environments (long)
Organization: Island Graphics Corp.
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 19:00:03 GMT

tagreen@lothario.cica.indiana.edu (Todd A. Green) writes:

>In article <59219@mimsy.umd.edu> alex@cs.umd.edu (Alex Blakemore) writes:
>>
>>There is a real nice screen saver called BackSpace, it is extendable in that
>>can be extended by the user in his own environment.  The user doesnt
>>need the source to the app to write the extended module - they arent
>>compiled at the same time.

>I've written several modules for AfterDark, an extensible screen saver
>on the Mac.  I didn't have the source for AfterDark.  I didn't need
>late binding (nor would it have made the task any easier. (In this context)).

>I've also created "objects" for ResEdit (editors and pickers in
>ResEdit lingo).  I don't have the source for ResEdit, nor again did I
>need late binding.

You did use late binding, you just didn't call it that! You don't have
to have Objective C to do late binding. It just makes it easier. You
can use any of the *techniques* of OOP that supported in Obj-C or C++
in any language. You just have to roll your own code to do it. 

I use MacApp on the Mac. They have late binding. You lay out a view in
ViewEdit and enter in what class you want to be associated with that
view and then at run time, when the view is substantiated, the string
that is in the view resource is looked up in a table and that class is
substantiated. Apple hacked their C++ compiler and linker to provide
this functionality.

Apple's solution works fine for dialog resources. To bad its useless
for anything else. Obj-C's late binding can be used for a lot more
than just implementing dialogs.

					Chris King
					Island Graphics Corp.
					San Rafael Ca.
					chris@island.com
					{sun,ucbcad,uunet}!island!chris