From: scott@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Scott Hazelhurst)
Subject: Re: Freedom of Expression
Organization: CS Dept, University of the Witwatersrand
Date: 20 Aug 92 06:18:38 GMT

In <1992Aug19.172342.28964@ucthpx.uct.ac.za> gavan@ucthpx.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux) writes:
>Oh indeed. The ANC should have no say in our participation in
>sport, whatsoever, no say over what should be sung or what should
>not be sung, what should be waved or what should not be waved. 

Where's the right to freedom of expression? The ANC can say what
they want. If they want they have the right to call for you to
wear pink underpants. You don't have to listen to them.


>They
>have no right to bully, to intimidate, to threaten or to bend over to,
>any sporting body, or group of people in this country. And that is
>precisely what they have done. 

Double standards here? When the ANC makes a political statement you
say they are bullying. When a white crowd makes a political statement
they are not? 

>I have a right to swing a stick, but not when your head is in
>the way. Rights ought to be respected, especially those concerning
>touchy issues like symbolism. Let people choose their own symbols,
>and you should DEFEND their choice on the grounds that it 
>was theirs to make, and that it is an insult to suggest otherwise.


>: The action on Saturday was a political action. Anyone reading the
>: front page of Rapport or seeing Koos van der Merwe on TV on
>: Sunday would have seen the oozing self-satisfaction about the
>: action. The action shows what many whites think. Politics is
>: about changing political views of people. For this reason I
>: hope the Australian tour gets called off -- not for vindictiveness
>: (although someone like Tshete must feel really cheesed off) but
>: to show white South Africans that compromise is necessary in the
>: future.

>Rugby spectators, and ALL citizens, have the right not to be persecuted
>for their political beliefs. 

Persecuted. Oh please. If they are going to do silly things then they
must expect to be laughed at. Rugby isn't sacred and neither
are the spectators.

>That's a liberal principle you have yet to master. It won't flow from
>a bleeding heart. 
>And they ARE being persecuted for their beliefs, for their
>free choice of symbols and anthems, if any tours are called off
>as a result. 

Rubbish. I want to use the infinitesimal political influence I have
here to call for the test to be cancelled. If I had the time,
energy, and lived in Cape Town I would stand outside the Newlands
stadium with a placard. The Australians may choose to listen to me.
The spectators may choose to listen to me. They have the right
to watch the rugby. They have the right to sing Die Stem. They
have the right to wave any coloured pieces of cloth they wish. But,
I have the right to criticise them and to try to influence them in
iany direction. My understanding of liberalism is that it cherished
the clash of ideas (not just of rugby teams). you now insist that
I meekly accept whatever they do. Not only don't you have a
bleeding heart, you don't even understand liberalism (long
essays notwithstanding).


>Frankly Scott, I very much doubt whether you could tell
>a scrum from a scrotum.i

So that's why I didn't make the Under 13D team. Oh dear.


>"Choose anything you like, but I'll cut your water off if it's Die Stem."

You do take your rugby seriously -- I see this is a sore point. Rugby
has the same status as water?
--

----Scott Hazelhurst-------------------------scott@concave.cs.wits.ac.za---
Department of Computer Science, University of the Witwatersrand
2050 Wits, South Africa         phone 27(11)716-3309 fax 27(11)403-1926