HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu Ayala)
Subject: Re: Working full-time out of choice
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 15:29:00 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.014343.901851@locus.com> judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer) writes:
>around him.  Now, you may disagree with standard child psychology, but what
>a child begins believing the world revolves around him and this is healthy.
>Children are extremely ego centered in their early years.  It usually isn't
>until they reach adolescence that they discover that, "wow, parents are people
>too".
>
  Teenagers?  Naw, they're still extremely ego-centric.  More like "parents
  are ogres who won't let me do this, won't give me that."
  I don't believe people reach this stage "wow, parents are people too",
  until they become parents themselves. ;-)
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clare Chu, Ph.D.             Data & Information Services
NYNEX Science & Technology   clare@nynexst.com
White Plains, NY 10462       AMIGA RULES!!!
From: ahelmers@umiami.ir.miami.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Phone Ettiquette
Date: 10 Apr 92 11:39:16 EDT
Organization: Univ of Miami IR

In article <1963@shuksan.boeing.com>, major@shuksan.boeing.com (Mike Schmitt) writes:
>   My oldest daughter lived in 11 different sets of military 'quarters' in
>   14 years.  (I moved 22 times in 22 years - don't ask - too complicated)
>   Therefore they never really get too attached to a "home".  

Funny, my experience is exactly the opposite!  We moved frequently also, but
I've lived in one place since I was 18 and NEVER want to have to get used to
new streets, new grocery stores, new schools...in fact about once a year I have
a nightmare that my husband comes to me and we have to move somewhere new :(.
  
>   So, where were you stationed, Ms Colonel's Daughter?

Hmmm, we didn't move as much as you but:

Germany
Georgia
Maryland
Virginia
Florida

Ann Helmers
the colonel's daughter and the no-war-toys mom.
From: JXT109@psuvm.psu.edu (Jennie)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Another baby teeth question
Date: 15 Apr 92 22:04:49 GMT
 <1992Apr10.210708.13755@aus.intel.com>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Penn State University


In article <1992Apr10.210708.13755@aus.intel.com>, robin@aus.intel.com (robin
rosenbaum) says:
>
>My son is past 6.5, just had a dental checkup.  The dentist seemed to find
>it worthy of mention that the baby teeth show no sign of loosening.  He
>(dentist) wasn't *worried* but said we might ought to keep an eye on the
>teeth development.
>Robin Hilp

Gee, my first baby tooth didn't fall out until I was 7.5.  No problems here :-)
--Jennie
From: mbb@keps.kodak.com (Maureen Busch)
Subject: Re: Seeking information about Tuboplasty
Organization: Kodak Electronic Printing Systems
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:17:20 GMT

In article <tsrjdfp.valentin@netcom.com> valentin@netcom.com (Valentin Pepelea)
breaks the participants of misc.kids into 3 categories:
    (Type 1):
>Most of the people here debate issues, and justify their point of view with
>
>	"I have several children, therefore I know how to treat children."
    (Type 2):
>Not all of us are telepathic; not all of us can determine our effects on
>children by just looking at them. Therefore some of us have a more enlightened
>approach to analyzing parental behavior, and we justify our opinions with
>
>	"I remember what worked with me when I was a child, and know how I
>	 would have liked to be treated, therefore I know how to treat
>	 children."
    and (Type 3) (yes, Mr. Green is a type unto himself.  How special!):
>Eric Lee Green on the other hand is breath of fresh air, as he seems the only
>one on the net to exclude his personal superficial perceptions, and submit
>opinions that can be summerized by
>
>	"I heave read and analyzed the research, therefore I know how to treat
>	 children."
>
Valentin, I beg to differ with your analysis.  Most people who post here offer
sincerely intended helpful advice of the type "This is what worked for us in
this situation."  Some of them back it up with "Such-and-such noted expert
stated in his well-known book that blah, blah, blah.  We tried his approach
and it worked for us."  There are others who post "My parents did thus and
such with me when I was a kid, and it worked out well" or "My parents did
thus and such and it was horrible, so you might want to avoid this strategy."
Of course, exceptions abound, and when we wander from the concrete examples
into the hypothetical situations and general philosophy, discussions tend to 
degenerate into the diatribes and mud-slinging so typical of some other groups.
As others have already pointed out, Mr. Green's posts do not always contain
only impartial summaries of research.  As a matter of fact, the post that
prompted this thread contained absolutely no information on the original topic,
and it did contain a lot of judgemental grandstanding based on personal opinion
and absolutely no real fact.  Not exactly a breath of fresh air, in my opinion.
Quite often his posts fall into your Type 2 category.

>Hopefully, personal attacks will not scare Eric away from correcting our
>misguided impressions and beliefs. He continues to be my favorite author of
>news on both misc.kids and misc.education, and look forward to his next

No, if he would like to post more helpful articles such as his response to
my inquiry about 5 year olds and reading, he would be a welcome source of 
information.  If he juust has an axe to grind, then he is no more welcome than 
any of the other axe-grinders that clutter this group, including you. 


-- 
Maureen Busch
Internet: mbb@keps.kodak.com
UUCP: ...!{harvard!ima,uunet!atexnet}!munsell!cairo!mbb
DISCLAIMER:  The opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's.
From: n9146269@honeydew.cc.wwu.edu (OverLord of Underlings)
Newsgroups: misc.kids,alt.satanism,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Raising Satanic children
Date: 6 Apr 92 20:48:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: honeydew.n9146269.702593324
Organization: Western Washington University

house@helios.usq.EDU.AU (ron house) writes:

>kenr@sol.usc.edu (Ken Richards) writes:

>>(Just in case you are wondering, we do not engage anything criminal you
>>might be thinking is associated with our religion, e.g. human sacrifice,
>>animal sacrifice, drug use, abuse of any form...etc.)

>Then what do you do?  If it has nothing to do with what most people
>consider Satan to refer to, then are you just grandstanding, with your
>children the victims?  That is, if you believe in a non-evil religion,
>why give it a bad name when (I am sure) you could find a more
>descriptive title?

Ron, that is a good question...

What most people associate with Satanism is, well alot of bullshit...
Those that DO go out and kill animals in the name of Satan, or any other 
diety usually do not represent the true religion... and as far as the net
goes, would do better in alt.evil, not alt.satanism.

Most of these people are teens, and are looking for attention or acceptance
among peers... These are not true Satanists... Satanism is an alternative to 
Christianity, with much more freedom and the ability to do whatever they want
at will, without guilt and without shame... 

Much of the sacrifice, and abuse is media hype, through the news and 
hollywood... It is THIS image that makes Satanism much worse in the eyes
of the public than it is...

RWD
_O_
 |
-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
RWD
_O_  Ryan Walker Davis >> The HeadHunter >> OverLord of Underlings
 |   n9146269@henson.cc.wwu.edu
From: las@ai.mit.edu (Lynn Stein)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Newborn advice/anecdotes wanted
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:43:24 GMT
Reply-To: las@ai.mit.edu (Lynn Andrea Stein)
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
In-reply-to: las@ai.mit.edu's message of 9 Apr 92 13:46:48 GMT

Oops.  That should read

> Some good friends of mine just had THEIR first baby (one week old
> tomorrow).  

Thanks to all who have responded so far and keep those stories coming
in! 

                                          Lynn 

                                          las@ai.mit.edu


 
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Subject: Re: Morning Dressing Battles
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1992 23:31:47 GMT

This thought just struck me as I was reading, but what are his day clothes like.
We used to have the same battles with Mitchell, but it was because he was a
nudist at heart (as is Erin and as was/am I).  

I was wondering if he sleeps in these soft wonderful baggy pajamas and has to
put on rought, constricting day clothes.  If so, try putting him/her (I forget
whose child this was), in stretchy, comfy knits for daytime.  Hanna is a good
place to find them as is Gymboree.  See if that helps.




-- 
I finally decided what I want on my tombstone...

	"Here lies Judy Leedom Tyrer.  The world will never see another like 
	 her.  We are undecided on whether this is a good thing or a bad thing."
From: forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: La Leche League
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:20:47 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: National Optical Astronomy Observatories, Tucson, AZ, USA

From article <1992Apr7.172831.12127@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, by sgilley@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (The Idealistic Cynic):
> Ok, I give up.  Just what exactly is the LLL?  I had thought from the
> name that it is/was a support group for breast-feeding mothers (and
> families, perhaps).  

That is EXACTLY what it is!


> But now I'm to understand it's also a group that
> doesn't believe in eating refined carbohydrates?  What else is it?

Oh come on.  Many mothers who attend not only have nursing babies but very
active, busy, toddlers too.   Since breastfeeding is so important in the 
discussions on nutrition for the babies, discussion naturally turns to
good nutrition for the walking children too.   I don't know about you,
but I've never heard anyone refer to a candy bar as good nutrition.  I
think it pretty normal that these mothers discuss alternatives.


> My wife and I had planned to get in touch with them a little later
> on in our pregnancy about breast feeding, so any info you can give
> would be helpful..

Please do!   But now you know that you and your wife need not drop out
once your baby is a little older and even weaned  :-)


> Sean.

Suzanne.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mhn@cs.brown.edu (Marian H. Nodine)
Subject: Re: Little Rabbit Foo-Foo: words wanted
Keywords: song
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 15:36:53 GMT

In article <1992Apr4.052320.8902@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> smorine@isis.cs.du.edu (Suzanne Morine) writes:
>Does anyone know the words to Little Rabbit Foo-Foo?
>
(tune):
Little Rabbit Foo-Foo
Hopping through the forest,
Scooping up the field mice
And bopping them on the head.

(narrator voice)
Then along came the gooood fairy, and she said:

(tune)
Little Rabbit Foo-Foo
I don't like your attitude
Scooping up the field mice
And bopping them on the head

(narrator voice)
I'll give you three (two, one) chances to beeee-have
and if you don't, I'm gonna turn you into a goooooon.

(the above repeats three times, with appropriate countdown)

Little rabbit Foo-Foo
Hopping through the forest
Scooping up the field mice
And bopping them on the head.

(narrator voice)
Then along came the goooodd fairy, and she said

(tune)
Little Rabbit Foo-Foo
I don't like your attitude
Scooping up the field mice
And bopping them on the head

(narrator's voice)
I gave you threeee chances to beeeee-have,
and now I'm going to turn you into a goooooon!

The moral of the story is:
Hare today, goon tomorrow!

******************************
There are also hand motions to the sung part.  My children love this 
song!

-- Misty
From: bill@az.stratus.com (Bill Everts)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Cute things they say (10 yr)
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:14:33 GMT

My son and I were on our way back to our apartment from the swimming pool one  
hot summer day. We were both barefoot. I told him to stay on the concrete and  
not to walk on the asphalt. I explained how black things get hotter because  
they absorb the suns rays while white things are cooler because they reflect  
the rays. So, "to stay cool, stay away from the black stuff." He thought about  
what I said for about a half a second and asked, "So why is it cooler in the  
shade?"

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
-everts-                     		bill@az.stratus.com

Real reality is nothing more than virtual reality which has yet to be realized.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: valentin@netcom.com (Valentin Pepelea)
Subject: Re: More on Girls in Math and Science
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 92 06:46:20 GMT
Organization: Netcom Communications, Santa Clara, CA

In article <wcFuiB1w163w@madhouse.cavebbs.gen.nz>
karen@madhouse.cavebbs.gen.nz ((Karen Hayward)) writes:
>
>I wouldn't totally agree with you there...presently I am the only female pupil
>at Catholic boy's high school. I have gone back to school to gain further
>qualifications. I'm actually at school with two of my sons :-)
>
>I find the atmosphere great...the boys are lively and thier behaviour is
>fine!! It in noway resembles Hell....

Yes, but that's because *you* are there!

Valentin
-- 
"An operating system without virtual memory      Name:      Valentin Pepelea
 is an operating system without virtue."         Phone:     (408) 985-1700
                                                 Usenet:    netcom!valentin
                     - Ancient Inca Proverb      Internet:  valentin@netcom.com
From: Tammy.Vandenboom@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Tammy Vandenboom)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: another testrun
Date: 6 Apr 92 18:49:11 GMT
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

t
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: bettis@mycin.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Debra Bettis 283-4333)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: RE: headaches
Keywords: headaches, tmj
Date: 8 Apr 1992 02:31:19 GMT
Organization: nasa-jsc

In my previous posting I failed to mention that a common behavior which is often
found in TMJ patients is jaw clinching and/or grinding ones teeth at night.  I
think the key to accurate diagnosis is being seen by a specialist.  There are
many who know a little and a few dentists who really know alot.  Find the best.
From: rice@cray.com (Jonathan Rice)
Subject: How long are kids' memories?
Keywords: not a flame, no agenda, no moral high ground, not crossposted
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:52:43 CDT


Sheesh.  I leave misc.kids for a few days and come back to a queue of 537
messages, about 500 of which are toxic.  Let's all go to the playground and
take a few spins down the roller slide to cool off.

An incident this weekend started me to thinking, always dangerous, and I
thought I'd solicit anecdotes.  Daughter the First was looking at the
newspaper and said aloud the name of a man whose photograph she recognized:
Kirby Puckett, an employee of a local entertainment corporation called the
Minnesota Twins.  All of a sudden, Daughter the Second got her "I'm getting a
message from my home planet" look, and she cried "Kiiiiiiiiiiiirby PUCKETT!"
in a pretty good imitation of the way he is typically announced.  Well, it
happens that I can date that memory: the only baseball game she's been
exposed to was in October 1991, about six months ago.  Furthermore, I can
make a definite statement that the catch phrase was not reinforced by us
during the game, nor have we spoken it since.  So I have a benchmark for the
length of Ellen's memory: 6 months, or 1/3 of her life, for details in the
category of random noise.  (I surmise without proof that her memory for
important things is longer.)

Now what struck me about this is that a similar benchmark for Anna, her 3
year old recollection of an obscure and unremarked detail from a hotel we
stayed at when she was just turning 2, also represented 1/3 of her life.

On the principle that anything that happens twice is probably a universal
law :o) I find myself wondering if 9 year olds remember back to age 6, or if
36 year olds remember...remember...darn, I forgot what I was going to say.

Anyway, it would be amusing to hear anecdotes about the length of your
children's memories.  See if you can think of things that they couldn't
possibly have been reminded of, as in the stories above.  (Despite tongue in
cheek remarks I'm not trying to prove anything.)  I'll try to find your
responses amidst the brouhaha.

-- 
Jonathan C. Rice    | rice@zizania.cray.com |   Anna, 4.5; Ellen, 1.5
Cray Research Inc.  | (612) 683 - 5370      | "I'm a man who's rich in
655F Lone Oak Drive | Eagan MN USA 55121    |  daughters." -- G. Brown
From: seanna@bnr.ca (Seanna Watson)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Potty Training Book Request
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:21:31 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada

In article <1992Apr15.030207.24519@a.cs.okstate.edu> rjs@a.cs.okstate.edu (STOLFA ROLAND JOSE) writes:
>My wife and I are looking for a good book to help our daughter through
>potty training.  We have seen "Once Upon a Potty" 

I once had an awful potty-training book which my son's babysitter
lent me (might have been "Once Upon a Potty").  When she gave it
to me she said something like, "some people think this book is
too explicit, but I like to use proper names for things".  I was
surprised and amused to discover that this book used explicit 
words like "pee-pee" and "wee-wee" and "poo-poo" (can't even
remember which was the excrement and which was the body part).
Anyway, I (and my kids) really liked "Mister Rogers Talks
About Toilet Training" (not sure if that is the exact title--it's
been a while).  It has pictures of real children (from a
variety of different ethnic groups), and good explanations about
things like differences between how boys and girls use the toilet, 
accidents, public places, etc.  (It also uses "moms & dads".) 
Good Luck!

-- 
Seanna Watson   Bell-Northern Research, 
                Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Opinions, what opinions?  Oh *these* opinions. | It's hard to seize the
No, they're not BNR's, they're mine.           | day when you must first
I knew I'd left them somewhere.                | grapple with the morning.

 
From: jean@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jean Jasinski)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 20:11:49 GMT
Subject: Re: Growth rates
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: misc.kids

Judy,

I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but this was one topic
discused in my developmental psych class last year.  The growth rate of 
children slows downs between 3-4 (and levels off) and doesn't increase 
until puberty.  If the growth rate didn't slow down, we would end up 
about 10-11 feet tall (some kids are 36" on second birthday; 20"
at birth=8" growth per year * 16 years + 20" birth height).  

If you are concerned, take your son to the doctors for a height
check and the nurse will measure and plot your son's height.  Even
if the %-tile your son is in dropped from the last time, doctors
only get concerned if there is a downward TREND (more than one
data point).  Unless you have a problem with growth hormone, then 
all conservative bets are off.

Jean Jasinski
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
Subject: headaches
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 12:52:17 GMT


	I am not going to be so naive as to suggest that I actually
	*know* anything, or that a single solution is always valid.


	But I posted a thing about the Feingold Association/diet a
	while ago.  Headaches have been shown to be a symptom of
	sensitivity to different food colors, preservatives, etc.,
	particularly in older kids/adults.  And people with these
	sensitivities *do* seem to "inherit" it, or it seems to
	run in families.  I can give anyone more info that needs it.

-- 
	Alan Yasutovich
	"inquiring  (and nosey) minds WANT TO KNOW!!!"
	I can remember when "safe sex" meant having a padded headboard!!
	Tick Tock.....Tick Tock......Tick Tock .....Tick Tock......
From: CLH7@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Growth rates
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:16:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: psuvm.92100.161632CLH7
Organization: Penn State University

In article <2728@master.CNA.TEK.COM>, judyd@pendragon.CNA.TEK.COM (Judy E.
Drake) says:
>  stuff deleted
>  I read somewhere that growth only takes place when
>they're asleep--is this true?
>
>Just curious!
>
>Judy Drake

A few months ago my husband saw some report of infants growing as much as
2 inches overnight.  He read it out loud to me one evening, so he wasn't
making this up, but we can't seem to find the source again.  Does anyone
else remember reading something like this, somewhere, sometime?  It's one
of those fun facts I would like to be able to toss out at appropriate
times.

Chris Himes
From: jbm@hpcndpc.CND.HP.COM (Jane Marcus)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: More on Girls in Math and Science
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:00:37 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Networks Division

I had the opportunity to visit a school in my area for National Read Aloud
Day.  In introducing myself to the 2nd grade class I was assigned to, I
made a point to tell the kids that I worked in computer science.  After 
making this statement, many of the boys in the class were jumping out of 
their seats, waving their hands so that they could tell me how they have
computers at home, or how they love to use computers, or how they wish they
had a computer etc.  The girls were remarkably silent, not one of them 
offering some statement of interest to me or the group.  At one point, I 
thought one of the girls was raising her hand and I asked her what she wanted 
to tell us, but then she said she was just stretching and didn't have anything 
to say, and I couldn't tell if she was feeling shy or really didn't have 
something to contribute.  Needless to say, I was disappointed.  So does this 
mean that these girls have already, by 2nd grade, been socialized to shy away 
from computers??  It seemed to me to be the case since the girls got lively
when I started reading a story to them and then they participated as much
as the boys did.

Jane Marcus
janem@hpfclg.fc.hp.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Subject: Re: Six YO "Meany"
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 02:19:55 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.210836.29766@uc.msc.edu> tbachman@hamline.edu (Toni Bachman) writes:
>I have a six year old son (seven in two weeks) and he is soooooo mean!!
>He chokes his two brothers and his "friends" for no good reason - We
>use time-outs as punishment and do not understand this - perhaps another
>kid had choked him before?????   At any rate - I would be interested in
>finding out if anyone else has encountered this problem - he also hits,
>kicks, bites, you name it!!!!
>

This is not politically correct advice, but it sure worked for us.  When
Mitchell started beating up on Erin, we made a rule (Erin was about 17 mos, 
Mitchell just over 3).  You hit Erin, we hit you.  And we did - tit for tat.
And in 2 weeks the hitting was almost ended.  He still gets frustrated with
her and forgets.  But as often as not he'll get mad and start to hit and then
pull away and hit the floor or couch instead.  Sometimes he just growls at
her.

I think younger siblings deserve to have adults be their advocates against
abuse by their older siblings.  And the lesson is quite valuable.  It isn't
fair to make a kids live with abuse, no matter where the abuse comes from.
And that means older siblings have to be dealt with swiftly and efficiently.

-- 
"This is just a test.  Had this been a real life, you would have been given
further instructions on where to go and what to do."
							Judy Leedom Tyrer