HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Subject: t// Re: Deep Heat
Originator: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 03:05:49 GMT


ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
|> Oh, yeah? Is that why your automaton won't tangle with me then? Pfui.
|> Let's run some tests if you like. I can fox out your program - No Sweat.
|> 
|> You might take the advice already given, that the program should not try
|> to re-use material the opponent considers dispensed with.

Mai says she's sorry for reusing old files :)

--
Scott Tai -- tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: t// REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY - 09/28/92
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:17:05 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.085211.11800@syacus.acus.oz.au> ron@syacus.acus.oz.au (Ron Williams) writes:
>Mike Steiner (mike_steiner@qm.claris.com) wrote:
>: Because those who consider Mensa insignificant and ridiculous are themselves
>: insignificant and ridiculous, and feel the need to vent their frustration
>: about this fact, rather than seek the help they so obviously need.
>
>Non Sequitur.
>
>: 
>: You are a pathetic representative of the human race, Tai.
>
>
>I recommend "Straight and Crooked Thinking", by Robert Thouless.

Sounds good.  Thought I had all the books.  Details?

>
>Take a course in NLP.

NLP?

>Tsk tsk.
>
>Really, you should both wipe the slate clean, get out your books on
>elementary reasoning, and start over.

Well, I'd be willing to give Scott up if Mike and Scott want to 
make a life for themselves.

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: The Providence of Astrology
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 14:51:44 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.140915.8238@tfs.com> ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>All Right.
>
>We shall proceed - sort of, in fits and starts.
>
>Dave Casper. Has Virgo *up the ass*, and Moon in Taurus (he is a

I knew it!  I knew it!  What have I been telling you, Dave?!?  :-)


GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Subject: Re: Doubters Of Astrology
Originator: cjdcosta@zepplin.ece.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 02:10:11 GMT


GMS writes:
>I don't disbelieve in the possibility of things like
>mental transference or the movement of astral bodies affecting
>humans' actions or moods, but I find most examples of people
>claiming to understand or use these laughable.  But then,
>I'm very skeptical of people's claims about everything, due to
>not only my experiences, but what I know about rationalization
>and how the human brain works.  Due to that, I would probably
>fit the role of a skeptic regarding people's practice of
>astrology, or, for that matter, science and law.

Guess what, Mark, you're psychic too. See, you've voiced my opinions
so perfectly on this topic that I'm sure you've been reading my mind.
Maybe I'll just let you add my name to your .sig file (or your disclaimer)
and save all this time I spend on posting. (Provided it's gratis, of course)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: t-- Re: Circular Flames
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 10:44:36 GMT

tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>
>|> (steiner:) keeping silent would not do anything towards shunning him.
>
>Bullshit.  Here's a repost of that first "MENSA-bashing" article:
>
>--
>Several people have asked why there is such a strong bias against MENSA.
>I believe that it's because it's a highly segregated and discriminatory
>group.  Like many physical attributes, intelligence is not something that
>an individual has a lot of control over.  Studies have shown that
>intelligence is based primarily on hereditary and genetic factors.
>To have a group solely for people with a certain IQ or test score is
>nothing less than blatant discrimination.  I would like to know the
>approximate percentage of blacks or Hispanics currently in MENSA, since
>their standardized test scores generally tend to be significantly lower
>than those of whites.  I believe this amount will be a great deal less
>than the actual percentage from the population as a whole, in the US.
>Assuming this is correct, how can you say that your group ISN'T
>discriminatory?  Or do you just believe that these minority groups are
>unable to carry on intelligent conversations with white folk?

Suppose, for the sake of argument, that there was some aspect of black
culture, which eschewed participation in groups such as Mensa? Do we know
this? What does it mean? Say the Black %-age is less than it should be,
or might be? What inferences should we draw? - Well, Fuck, I don't know.

White culture is exclusive, generally to whites, or 'white-acting people'.
If mensa comes across as white, then no doubt blacks would say, why bother?
On the other hand, Mensa is self-declared based upon intelligence ONLY.
So look for tests to fairly evaluate "black intelligence" - are there any?
We have a long way to go to understand cultural differences and the impact
that has on measuring "intelligence". I think Whites just might be aghast
to discover what Blacks felt was human, interpersonal intelligence - because
they would largely *fail* a "Black beingness test". So maybe I agree with
you. If whites define 'acuity', it will be in their own image. Well, so,
fuck them - blacks can entirely do without white values, and have happy
lives. So yes, I think we have a hell of a lot of exceedingly serious work
to do in this area, because we still don't know how exactly to quantify
what it is that makes a person a successful human being - *hey* - WITHOUT
reference to cultural context. White Western Scientific Rational values
do not define reality, PERIOD. They only *contribute* to our [human]
understanding of the world. I as an occultist know this - things are
*desperately* relative to context.

Hmm. Ouzo is catching up to me - (keystrokes/hour). <== So, politically
incorrect as it may be for me to end on a punctuationally incorrect
syntactical phrase, I shall, nonetheless. Yeah - you raise good points,
when you are not making personal attacks. Some stupid statement about,
keep up the good work.

's any've this make any sense?
-ecsd
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: t// REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY - 09/28/92
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:07:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewse.1992Sep29.200747.26466
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Sep29.003539.28070@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>
>This is no definitive study here, but I have known enough people over enough 
>time from enough places that a pattern is quite clear: MENSA is considered 
>insignificant and ridiculous. Why should this be so?
>

Ironic that you should be so concerned, let alone consumed, with this.

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: kaufman@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Ken Kaufman)
Subject: Re: t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Va.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:51:50 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.221718.10324@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:

>This claim of joining MENSA for social reasons has always sounded hollow. 
>First, any area large enough for a MENSA chapter will also have any number 
>of other clubs, and any interest club on an intellectual subject will be 
>overloaded with intelligent people. Second, unless one is a gross 
>underachiever, anyone bright enough to qualify for MENSA will be 
>surrounded by intelligent people at college or at work. 

Scott, I can't speak for anyone else but I joined Mensa for social
reasons when I wasn't finding an outlet in any other 'intellectual
interest club.'  I had moved to this area several months before, and was
feeling socially frustrated because I was not meeting other people here with
whom I could interact on the same wavelength, so to speak.  (Note:  This
should not be construed as a put-down of the people I was encountering
in other places; the difficulties we were having in communicating or
sharing activities together were as much due to MY limitations, if not
more so.)  Anyway, someone (incidentally not a Mensan) suggested I look
into Mensa.  Well, guess what?  I went to a sample activity or two and
found lots of people I could interact comfortably with.  I joined soon
after and never looked back.

Although I am surrounded by intelligent people here, that does
not mean that the ones I work closest with and I have very much
commonality in experiences, culture or interests.  We do interact and
interchange ideas, but that alone is not sufficient for me.

All this means is that FOR ME, and presumably for at least a dozen
others somewhere, Mensa offered a chemistry I was not finding elsewhere.
The fact that it is not tied to a particular subject such as many other
intellectually oriented groups are appeals to me; I quickly tire of overdone
'shop talk' in almost all fields and appreciate the opportunity to be able
to find diversity in conversational common ground.

This does not stand as an endorsement of Mensa nor an indictment of
other groups, save for the statement that for me Mensa was the proper
social outlet.  My primary reason of joining was social, and that
remains the primary (but not necessary sole) reason I remain a member.

Always the exception :-)
Ken
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: jswthomp@milton.u.washington.edu (James Thompson)
Subject: Nothing to do with T -- T// T// *Tai ...
Keywords: Tai, Scott, Mai, N. O.
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 05:14:39 GMT

Please, everybody:  If you wish to discuss this topic, *please* put the word
'Tai', or at least the 'T//' word somewhere in the subject.  It will make
it much easier for me to skip these articles, for which I will be truly
grateful.

Jim



Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Subject: t// Re: T/T: Statistics - rec.org.mensa most prolific posters!
Originator: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 00:37:41 GMT


shrum@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Rick Shrum) writes:
              ^^^^^^^^
|> Sheesh dude, yer lacking.
|> YEE-HAWWW!!!!!

Are there others in NASA like yourself?
(If so, it explains a lot.)

--
Scott Tai -- tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
NCSU Artificial Intelligence Lab
Centennial Campus
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: yoo@netcom.com (Young-Kyu Yoo)
Subject: Re: Doubters Of Astrology
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 03:36:58 GMT

I'm not interested in debating the validity of astrology with those
uninterested in the scientific method.  

1.  I do not speak for the general astrological community.  I reject
much of the mumbo-jumbo of the professionals.

2.  My expertise are in math and logic and I don't have the time cut
through rhetorical crap.

3.  I'd much rather play scrabble, do a cryptic crossword, or engage
in wild animalistic sex.

If you would like to bash astrology on principle, I would refer you to 
the astrology newsgroup.  Have fun.

Young-Kyu
.

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: N.O. Tai
Organization: The Cat Factory
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 00:41:57 GMT

In article <9209300600.AA01328@physd1.phys.vt.edu> oconnell@physd1.phys.vt.edu (Richard Oconnell) writes:
}Hmm.  In a kind of zen fashion, I really like having Tai and N.O. Tai at the
}same time.   

Is that anything like having no tea?

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: radams@BNR.CA (Rodney Adams)
Subject: Re: Meaning of Intelligence
Reply-To: "Rodney Adams" <RADAMS@BNR.CA>
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ltd.
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1992 16:10:31 GMT

In article <1992Jul15.003110.17117@ncsu.edu>, tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai) wri
tes:
|>
|> MENSA's entrance qualifications depend directly on your scores from IQ
|> tests.  *Someone* in MENSA must have the idea that intelligence and
|> scores on standardized tests are somehow highly correlated.  If you
|> only had that piece of information about a person, how could you say
|> with any assurance that he or she could *act* like an "intelligent
|> person"?  (You can't.)

In article <1992Oct2.001731.19087@ncsu.edu>, mai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Mai Tai) writes:
|> 
|> Mensa's entrance qualifications depend directly on your scores from IQ
|> tests.  *Someone* in Mensa must have the idea that intelligence and
|> scores on standardized tests are somehow highly correlated.  If you
|> only had that piece of information about a person, how could you say
|> with any assurance that he or she could *act* like an "intelligent
|> person"?  (You can't.)

Need I say more?

The rest of the articles, by the way, were also identical.  The only 
differences between the two are in the capitalization of Mensa and in
the name used (Scott/Mai).  I, like GMS, have noticed this repetitiveness
in other articles as well.  I just happened to have more readily
available evidence of the above, as I had saved my reply to the original 
posting of this article.  Environmentalism is one thing, but recycling
old articles.... 

By the way, Mark, I liked your post detailing your valid complaints about
Scott and urging him to seek help.  However, this is apparently not the
work of a troubled individual seeking to share his views.  This is the
work of one or, likely, more individuals attempting to have fun at the expense
of those who read this newsgroup.

Perhaps they just wanted to test out their AI program, but it has grown
entirely too tiresome.  

"Tai," this will be my last response to one of your articles, barring 
some drastic change in your posts or some unforeseen whim.  I now see
why you choose to hide behind a pseudonym.  Once the "joke" was revealed,
you would not want you real name(s) to be associated with this charade.

I have been so tolerant of you....  Why could you not show the decency
to step forth, admit to the mistakes you make, write coherent and consistent
articles, and let us see who you are and why you believe what you believe?

*sigh*
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Rodney G. Adams
The opinions expressed above are not necessarily those of my employer.
As if you didn't already know that....
"When you're through changing, you're through." - Bruce Barton
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: Magik
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 10:24:01 GMT

bkdavis@eos.ncsu.edu (B K DAVIS) writes:
>
>I am curious as to what the people of Mensa think about witchcraft, magick and shamanism.
>Do you believe that such forces are possible in this world ?
>Have you expericened any of these things first hand ?

All work, I have seen all these. I am not a "witch", but what witches do
is not really different than Magick - just a different cast to it. Say,
more earth/nature oriented.
Possible what? What is it that is supposed to be possible?

Consider QUICKLY that all these are concerned with the subconscious mind,
and you will be in a much better position to appreciate them.

-ecsd
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Tai
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 06:59:01 GMT

tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>
>ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>
>|> I invited Tai to come forward to explain himself - there's no reason why he
>|> can't talk about himself and his conditions. This will give us a clearer
>|> picture of who he is, and how we might come to treat him. How old is he?
>|> What does he do? Is he in school? Why is he angry with standardized tests?
>|> What is his race and culture? Is he even a he? Is Dr. Tai really his father?
>|> We don't know these things, and it would help.
>
>Hey, maybe you could try to figure out these things using astrological
>methods :)  I'm totally serious; think about it.

I don't mind doing your chart, but I'm not going to spend time guessing.
I can't even send you private mail, so why should I use my energy with you?
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Subject: t// Re: Personal to gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Originator: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 03:08:32 GMT


ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
|> mai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Mai Tai) writes substitution into GMS's letter.
|> 
|> >Good Luck!
|> >
|> >Mai
|> 
|> I think we've been parsing this wrong. MAI = M AI, TAI = T AI.
|> "sisters" . . .

Ha.

--
Scott Tai -- tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
From: lumensa@lub001.lamar.edu (Dale Parish)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Doubters Of Astrology
Date: 4 Oct 92 15:03:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: lub001.1992Oct3.220347.1625
Organization: Lamar University - Beaumont

> To those
> who dismiss astrology without testing it empirically themselves or 
> critically examining the small body of serious scientific work on the
> subject (there have been many attempts to debunk it...but very few such
> attempts hold up under serious scientific or mathematical scrutiny...
> a consequence of the fact that most debunkers are not serious
> scientists), I would say that it is not skepticism they are practicing,
> but an UNscientific, unexamined prejudice against the so-called 
> pseudo-sciences.

Have to agree with you.  But the problem I see in getting that scrutiny
is that the evaluation of the "personality traits" that a good natal
chart indicates aren't really empirically *measurable*, but only
observable and dependant upon personal biases, cultural and
psychological, to access.  Unfortunately, those who could devise
indicators of them are some of astrology's greatest debunkers-- the
psychologists.  Without their soft-science, astrology lacks any
proponents who could give much meaning to a validity study on traits
observed and compared to those indicated by a natal chart.  Those who
have investigated for themselves believe, and those whose knowledge of
astrology is gained mostly from reading horoscopes in newspapers debunk. 
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: The Candidates in Oz
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 18:15:39 GMT

In article <15215@claris.com> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
>A number of the candidates visited the Wizard of Oz to help them gain what
>they lacked or most desired.  When the Wizard asked them what they wanted,
>
>Bush said, "I want a heart.
>Perot said, "I want courage.
>Qualye said, "I want a brain."

Is this another potatoe joke?

>Clinton said, "I want Dorothy."

Sammy said, "I want to be me."

GMS


Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com
Subject: Re: t// t// REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY - 09/28/92
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 06:33:20 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.223740.11317@ncsu.edu>, tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Brad Regenman) writes...
> 
>mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
>|> What you are ignoring is that you are the one who initiated the flames and
>|> attacks.

>Methinks you're the insecure one.  Where specifically did I initiate
>these "flames and attacks"?  

When you started posting inflammatory posts with no provocation except
old grudges for one.  And the time you did the same before...

>Let me guess:  you don't like Ben Franklin, Samuel Clemens, or Stephen King,
>do you?
> 
>And what the f***, may I ask, do you need someone's real name for?  
>Are you going to pay them a visit?  What is this, some kind of a net 
>police, registering names and addresses?  Can't you talk to someone 
>without seeing his or her birth certificate?

Did Franklin, Clemens, etc. try to make efforts to prevent people from finding
out who the real person behind the pseudonym is?  Did they use pseudonyms so
they didn't have to 'answer for' what they wrote?  Did they use pseudonyms
because what they wrote would be embarassing to them if penned under their
real name?  This is the difference between them and you.

>|> You are a pathetic representative of the human race, Tai.
> 
>This is fascinating.  Now may I ask why the hell are you calling
>another poster "pathetic" even though that poster has not attacked you
>or said anything insulting to anyone?

He hasn't?

-Mike
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Doubters Of Astrology
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:27:48 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.022455.8883@ncsu.edu> cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA) writes:
>
>I think Eric's made a fair offer, and I hope someone takes him up on it.
>I used to be one of astrology's many skeptics, until I noted certain
>characteristics in people that were startlingly close to what their signs
>would predict. Call it what you may, it was sufficient evidence for me not 
>to dismiss astrology completely out of hand.  


Given how many periodic systems there are in the world and how they
affect just about everything, biological and non-biological, it would
seem highly improbable that something as complex as a human being
would not be affected by annual changes in systems that are much
larger than it.  For there to be no connection between annual 
and monthly changes and human behavior seems, to me, to be a highly
irrational presumption.

However, given the many known problems with human perception and
interpretation -- the primacy factor, immediacy, etc., etc. --
I remain highly skeptical of those that profess to understand just
what those connections or the results of those connections are.

I would find it very interesting if someone were to compile a lot
of objective data about peoples' behaviors and abilities and such
and subject this data to statistical analysis.  We might end up
with an AI that could predict much useful information for people.

A discussion of the ethical and political impacts of this would
also be interesting.

GMS