From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.feminism
Subject: Re: _Backlash_ ( Sort of )
Date: 2 Oct 92 22:45:34 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <MUFFY.92Oct2120550@remarque.berkeley.edu> muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.002927.15042@netcom.com> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct1.190112.14711@ils.nwu.edu> lynch@ils.nwu.edu (Richard Lynch) writes:
>>>I'm curious, Rich.  Who are the extreme feminists you are arguing with?
>>>Are they here on this forum?
>>>IMHO, most of the people on this forum seem quite moderate.
>
>>Maybe so, maybe not. From previous re-posts, it seems that Muffy's
>>idea of male reproductive responsibility amounts to sterilization or
>>abstinance. 
>
>Rather than "re-posts," shall we say "quotes out of context?"  

I agree that they were out of context of the conversation, but what I
recall seeing were complete posts, from header to your sig.

>                                                                   To
>re-supply the context:  Hillel claimed that women frequently lie about
>having used birth control so that they can get a man to get them
>pregnant and then use that to make him support them and the child for
>years.  So, I said, any man who thinks that that is what women are like
>should either get a vasectomy or not have sex with women.  Seems
>perfectly sensible to me.  

So what you are offering is sensible advice for the paranoid?  :^)
Perhaps this could use a bit more consideration?

>                             What's so "extreme" about suggesting some
>useful ways for a man to avoid this horrible risk?  

There is nothing extreme in the act of offering advice. But if the advice
be extreme, it is a bit shortsighted to look no father than the act of
offering it. 

>                                                 By the way, please
>note that I am not really recommending abstinence, just no sex with
>women.  They would be perfectly safe (from this danger) if they had sex
>with other men, blow-up dolls, sheep, or whatever.

I'm really happy to know that you are not being extreme. :^}
Also this reminds me of certain Texan jokes...
 
>>This seems rather extreme to me. I asked for clarification and whether
>>she thought that female reproductive responsibility would also be
>>sterilization or abstinance. She did not respond.
>
>Well, I almost never read all of your articles anymore because they are
>so long.  

You know, I'm beginning to feel the same way. Guess it's time to start
editing. The latest beaut has got to be from 10-15K. 

>         I probably just missed this.  You might be better off sending
>me email, if you want answers to these burning questions.  

It was not that vital that I know. But the question remained open...

>                                                           Anyway, yes,
>I would recommend sterilization or not having sex with men to any woman
>who believed  that all men were lying about birth control in order to
>get them  pregnant.  

Or having sex with other women, blow-up dolls, sheep, or whatever???

>                      Somehow, though, I haven't met/seen posts from a
>woman who was this paranoid yet.

Somehow I rather think most women would like to keep their options open
as far as having a family goes (correct me if I'm wrong). I rather think
most men would like to keep their options open as well. 
 
>Muffy
>
>Muffy Barkocy                               muffy@mica.berkeley.edu

Rich

payner@netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.feminism