HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ndallen@r-node.gts.org (Nigel Allen)
Subject: AFT Applauds Choice of Riley as Education Secretary
Organization: Echo Beach, Toronto
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 08:54:11 GMT

Here is a press release from the American Federation of Teachers.

 AFT Applauds Choice of Riley as Education Secretary
 To: National Desk
 Contact: Janet Bass of the American Federation of Teachers,
          202-879-4554

   WASHINGTON, Dec. 21   -- American Federation of Teachers 
President Albert Shanker said President-elect Clinton's
choice today of former South Carolina Gov. Richard Riley to run the
Department of Education is an excellent decision.
   "The choice of Dick Riley as education secretary signals an
important and exciting change for our nation's students.  As a
visionary education reformer in South Carolina, Riley recognized that
real changes require transforming the whole system, not just
depending on a single magic bullet," Shanker said.
   South Carolina's reform plan included boosting academic standards,
improving testing to assess student achievement, upgrading teacher
and principal training and providing schools with incentives to
improve student performance.
   "Many others are only now catching up with him.  He will be an
asset in our nation's efforts to ensure that all students leave
school literate, numerate and ready to compete in a global economy,"
Shanker said.
   The AFT represents 796,000 teachers, professors, paraprofessionals
and school-related personnel, nurses and health care workers, state
and municipal employees.
 -30-
-- 
Newsgroups: misc.education,soc.culture.african.american
From: solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky)
Subject: Re: What A White Person Learned in College About AfAm Culture
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 22:43:17 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.045728.27773@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, ndw2u@curry.edschool.Virginia.EDU (Nicole Danielle Woodard) writes:
|> I am shocked at what I am reading on this network!  It is 1992
|> and this sounds like the rhetoric of a century ago.  If you
|> know your history so well then you realize that affirmative
|> action has its roots in the veterans preference programs that
|> were started after World War I.  It was not called affirmative
|> action merely "preference".  This preferential treatment lead
|> to access to housing, loans, education, jobs, etc.  People did
|> not claim that it was "unfair" for veterans to have access to
|> these opportunities yet this supposed "unfairness" is the
|> premise that people use to end affirmative action policies.

The reason for this was that people generally felt that veterans deserved
to be treated better. The two world wars had a tremendous level of popular
support, and the men who fought and risked their lives while earning less
than fair pay were considered above those who didn't. Every single person
that lost a job because of this preference personally owed the veterans a
debt. Virtually everybody benefited from the war (or thought they had),
but only the veterans had to risk their lives.

Jason W. Solinsky
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: usgcjsx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Craig_J_Stadler)
Subject: Free Test Generation Software (P2)
Organization: Georgia State University
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 18:49:21 GMT

TestPRO 2.0 is available for IBM compatible computers on the sites listed in the
previous message.  
To find it, search for tpro2_0.zip.
Use an archie client server or get it from a site.

Craig J. Stadler
From: rowland@zorba7.larc.nasa.gov (Michael W. Rowland)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: Administrators: Respond, Please.
Date: 4 Jan 1993 00:06:20 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA 23681  USA
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: rowland@zorba7.larc.nasa.gov (Michael W. Rowland)
NNTP-Posting-Host: zorba7.larc.nasa.gov

As a citizen of this country, I am extremely interested in
what is happening in the public schools and private
universities around the country.  My interest has recently
peeked, and I just read two extremely informative books that
I would like to get opinions on.  They are:

1) "Why Johnny Can't Tell Right from Wrong--moral illiteracy
    and the case for character education,"  William Kilpatrick,
    Vintage Books, 1992

2) "Illiberal Education--the politics of race and sex on
    campus,"  Dinesh D'Souza, Simon & Schuster, 1992

If you have read these books, please send your opinions
and comments to my e-mail address along with your position
within the educational system, if any.  Name optional.

Thank for any responses you offer, and all responses
will be for my personal use only--I promise!

Mike

Mike Rowland (Contractor),  MS 475
NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton VA 23681
internet: rowland@zorba7.larc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: era@ncar.ucar.edu (Ed Arnold)
Subject: school vouchers
Reply-To: era@ncar.ucar.edu (Ed Arnold)
Organization: Nat'l Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR); Boulder, CO
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:56:56 GMT

In the wake of Colorado's passage of Amendment #1 (a tax-limitation
amendment, which threatens to gut public schools) and Amendment #2 (the
anti-gay-rights bill), people are still concerned about an amendment
that will probably come around again: Amendment #7, which would have
provided $2500 vouchers to K-12 students from public funds, to take to
the school of their choice.

I am interested in knowing if there is anyone on this list who has
studied the vouchers issue and/or has references to the many articles
that must have been published on this subject.  Please email me if you
are that person; I will summarize on misc.education (which I don't
usually read) if I receive any replies.
--
Ed Arnold * NCAR * POB 3000, Boulder, CO 80307-3000 * 303-497-1253(voice)
303-497-{1298,1137}(fax) * internet: era@ncar.ucar.edu * bitnet: era@ncario
compuserve: internet:era@ncar.ucar.edu
Xref: sparky misc.education:5625 soc.culture.african.american:13401
From: betsys@cs.umb.edu (Elizabeth Schwartz)
Newsgroups: misc.education,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: What A White Person Learned in College About AfAm Culture
Date: 4 Jan 93 02:06:54 GMT
	<1993Jan3.150812.2351@ucbeh.san.uc.edu>
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston

I like the idea of Bridge programs, and also programs that go into the
high schools. I work in a CS dept (I'm a tech not a teacher tho) and
I'm not sure that you can cure years of inadequate math prep with a
summer course. Someone who is going to do college-level Calculus and
computer science should be doing Algebra in 7th or 8th grade and
should have mastered the basics in grade school. 
  I have a nasty suspicion that the kids in the poor neighborhoods are
just not getting the math and science prep that they need. Once a
teenager has gotten fed up with math and graduated with Voc. Ed
courses instead of the hard stuff, not to mention graduating with no
idea how to write a research paper, that kid is not going to be able
to compete. Maybe a few really dedicated exceptionnaly bright kids
will fight their way out, but your average kid isn't going to make it.
   Go out to the rich white suburbs, and every kid is sweating through
research papers and enough math and science to meet admission
standards of most colleges, whether the kid has an aptitude or not. 
   Go out to the rich white suburbs, and you won't find 1/3 of their
kids labelled slow learners or "emotionally disturbed." You won't even
find metal shops in the high schools, unless the art classes use them.
   I think busing is hell on kids, but I'd like to see someone switch
the kids in Roxbury with the kids in Lexington. Just take a week and
ship all the city kids out and all the suburban kids in. Let the
suburban kids play with the leaky radiators, and let the city kids at
the fancy computer labs. No later than 5th grade, and for two weeks.
  I bet you'd get a few more scientists out of that bunch of kids.

  
--
System Administrator                  Internet: betsys@cs.umb.edu
MACS Dept, UMass/Boston               Phone   : 617-287-6448
100 Morrissey Blvd                    Staccato signals
Boston, MA 02125-3393                      of constant information....
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: DRPORTER@SUVM.SYR.EDU (Brad Porter)
Subject: Re: What A White Person Learned in College About AfAm Cul
Organization: Syracuse University
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 22:40:51 EST

Being as I haven't figured out all the intracacies of my message posting
software, I'm going to quote nothing, but discuss it all.  :-)
    Comments were made that small towns don't seem to have the same prdjudices,
and I don't really live in the real world of inter-racial relations.  I agree.
Actually, I agree with everything that was said in response.  Conditions ARE
improving aren't they - especially in the professional world?  Animosity and
prejudice may never leave the cities because in many instances any manner of
classification leads to resentment by one class of another class.  For some
reason my English class got in a spontaneous debate over what to refer
to African-Americans when refering to them as a group.  No resolution was
reached, so I'm asking here "If we must attach a name to this group of people,
what names are acceptable?"  White, and caucasian apply for me...  The best
we may be able to hope for is that we ourselves can remain objective always
and prejudiced never, setting an exaple for the future.
 
                                       -Brad Porter
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: radinsky@spot.Colorado.EDU (Wayne Radinsky)
Subject: Re: education & a philosophical tangent
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:49:12 GMT

jpark@rwja.umdnj.edu (John Park) writes:
> How do people identify with oneself?  I'm refering to one of three
> broad possibilities/catagories in my makeshift system.
> 	1. with one's mind, ie., thoughts equate with self
> 		"I think, therefore I am." "My thoughts make me the
> 		person I am." "My perception of myself, is based on
> 		the character of my thoughts" "My mind is the only
> 		enduring thing", etc...
> 	2. with one's body, ie., physical body equates with self
> 		"Who I see in the mirror is who I am" "I am pretty/ugly
> 		and therefore [am really] a good/bad person"  
> 		"appearance is everything or most important"
> 		"I judge other people based on their appearances," etc...
> 	3. with a roughly equal administration of both extremes of thought.
> 
> It would follow that people who are mostly type 1, will think of self
> improvement, through intellectual pursuits & efforts to improve one's 
> intelligence or mind (or soul)  ie. learning a new language, 
> reading a book, getting an advanced degree, etc.
> 
> It would seem that people who are mostly type2, will not have same
> level of motivation for intellectual pursuits.  Self improvement will
> be seen in improving one's body and appearance.  -- note a potential
> imprisioning effect that this mode of self identification can have on
> women, if carried to an extreme. (for example, the psychology of
> anorexia)

Both of your "types" have a potential imprisioning effect.

Using your thoughts for self-identity is not a good idea -- your thoughts
are controlled by others, more than you would like to believe.  You go
through school and get indoctrinated.  You watch TV and get indoctrinated.
You worry about your job, you worry about crime, you worry about survival.
And you get imprisioned in the process.

Besides, you cannot even predict what you will be doing or what you will be
thinking about 24 hours from now.

You have identified how people get imprisioned.  But for everyone to become
"type 1"'s will not free us.

My $0.02.
--Wayne, the anxious puppy
Xref: sparky misc.education:5608 sci.math:17572
From: solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky)
Subject: Re: What A White Person Learned in College About AfAm Culture
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 21:30:07 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.185447.1223@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu>, johnson@whitewater.chem.wisc.edu (Art Johnson) writes:
|> > In article <1992Dec24.224317.25542@athena.mit.edu> solman@athena.mit.edu  
|> (Jason W Solinsky) writes:
|> > 
|> > # Every single person that lost a job because of this preference
|> > # personally owed the veterans a debt. Virtually everybody benefited
|> > # from the war (or thought they had), but only the veterans had to
|> > # risk their lives.
|> 
|>      So what you're saying is, there *are* circumstances under which it is  
|> just to hire someone for reasons other than merit. Interesting.

Some people believe (I think I fall [very slightly] into this catagory) that
having served ones country increases the merit of the applicant.

More importantly (in my opinion) a preference like this which has nearly
unanimous approval of the persons affected is unlikely to leave many
disgruntled people.

A final (and important) note is that like affirmative action, "preference was
supposed to be a very temporary thing. Except for the first reason listed (that
serving increases merit) this form of AA disappeared very quickly. The AA
that we have today has lasted far longer than its intended lifetime.

Jason W. Solinsky
Xref: sparky misc.education:5589 sci.math:17524
From: dont@execu.execu.com (Don Thompson)
Newsgroups: misc.education,sci.math
Subject: Math ( and other ) education.
Date: 30 Dec 92 21:56:56 GMT
Followup-To: sci.math
Distribution: na
Organization: Austin Dev. Center, Comshare Inc.


	Hello,

	Regarding the recent thread discussing the state of mathematical
	education in the U.S.

	I decided about a month ago to try to salvage the wreckage of my
	math education after realizing that the things I wanted to do
	require more than + - /  and *. Some of the math I need to
	to learn is the higher levels of Trig, Calc, and Geometry.

	Now I live in Austin, Texas. We have at least four public or private
	universities within driving distance and an extensive Community college
	system. I work full time and my company is willing to foot the bill of 
	any higher education including Masters and PhDs. 

	"Great, I have a B.S. I'll just enroll in a few night classes, or
	maybe even get into a Masters program". Well, It would work for the
	community college, except that their math classes stop at "intro
	to trig". "Try the University", I thought. Crash and Burn. My   
	SAT-GREP-XYZ-ZZTOP-YOUR-TEST-GOES-HERE scores are not in the top
	.00025% of the nation, I don't have a 4.2 grade average, and besides
	there are no night classes for the "serious" subjects. You want to
	learn that stuff? Quit your job, move into the student slums, and 
	repeat all your general ed. THEN you can learn the math. 

	So, here I am. A productive member of society. I pay taxes, I vote,
	I'm willing to give up my evenings with my family, to study hard,
	to PAY, and what do I get? "Sorry, you not good enough. Return to
	Go and pay $200". All because those pin heads did'nt have a slot that 
	I fit into.

	I always thought that education was a continuing process. It seems  
	that the educational establishment disagrees. The only thing that
	people want to learn after they get their degree is dBase or MSWord
	and other "fun" classes. Unless of course you completely trash your
	life and start over again.

	Any suggestions?
 
-- 
________________________________________________________________________________
Don "Syco" Thompson                 |   I may be opinionated, but at least
Comshare Inc. dont@execu.execu.com  |   my opinions are my own.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "There's no kill like a guns kill".  Lt Commander Joe "Hoser" Satrapa, USN
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: misc.education
From: klf@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (karen.l.fenton)
Subject: Six Goals
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:54:19 GMT
Keywords: too much fun to miss

I'm posting this excerpt of an article I clipped a while ago. 
It's from "School Leader" (Jul/Aug '92) and was written by William Banach. 

Banach sums up (albeit humorously) one of the major problems
in education today: public expectations which are reactive and 
unrealistic. We're supposed to solve all of our social
problems, address every handicap, every value problem, attract
and retain excellent teachers with competitive salaries/benefits, 
 - all within an instructional budget that shrinks every year
and makes no allowance for additional programs. "Money is not the
answer" is specious when we expected to do twice as much
at yesterdays level of support.

I admire the effort (however slim) Bush put into focusing
on the problem, but the result was political salve and it's basically 
useless. 

As Branach reasons,
	"The absence of financial support in combination with a 
plethora of lip service from politicians and business people has 
made the assignment even more difficult."..."We educators have 
it wrong. We have assumed responsibility for six goals that may be
more societal than educational. And as we work to attain them, we
are getting bashed for our efforts. We need to adopt some goals all right. 
I think we should convene a group of educators in a stimulating
environment and present our national goals amid much fanfare."...

The Goals:
   
		"National Goals for Business
 		---------------------------

By the year 2000:
	* every employee will come to the job ready to work;
	* customer satisfaction will increase to at least 90%;
	* American workers will demonstrate competency and will show
		evidence of using their minds as well;
	* U.S. workers will be first in the world in productivity
		and quality;
	* every worker will be a literate, skilled, responsible
		citizen; and
	* every workplace in America will be free of drugs and
		violence.

   [[EVEN BETTER :-) ]]

		National Political Goals
		------------------------
By the year 2000:
	* every politician will come to the job ready to work;
	* 90% of legislation will be addressed to the needs and
		wants of U.S. citizens;
	* all politicians will demonstrate and show evidence of using their
		minds well;
	* U.S. politicians will be first in the world in integrity and
		ethical behavior;
	* every politician will be a literate, skilled, and 
		responsible citizen; and
	* every legislative body in America will be free of scandal
		and corruption."  END OF EXCERPT
Xref: sparky misc.education:5596 soc.culture.african.american:13350
From: turnerbl@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: misc.education,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: What A White Person Learned in College About AfAm Culture
Date: 31 Dec 92 10:40:50 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati

.
> 
> So what's your point?  The sky is blue.  Simple truth.  Also irrelevant.
> 
>>Like I said, if you don't, you don't. And come to think of it, who cares 
>>if you don't?  We hardly need your approval.
> 
>>Make all the comparisons you wish, for whatever jollies you may derive 
>>from it. But when you're done, an apple will still be an apple, an orange 
>>will still be an orange, and the experience of different minorities in 
>>this country will still be different.
> 
> Certainly.  And the experiences of different people in this country
> will still be different.  But we still find it useful to deal with
> groups of people and it is still useful to deal with groups of
> minorities

Hi, it's me, the voice of reason.  Sorry to intrude on your debate here, but I
have a question?

Just what would make you happy, either of you?

I mean, the nasty tone (exampled above) developing here seem to be de-volving
into a loop, he said, he said...  I mean, are not both points justifiable in
this society?

I work at a large (36K) public university.  I grew up here, attended school
both here and in the deep south.  I have seen both sides of this arguemnet, and
both sides feel justified, so, to paraphrase, what's you point?

African-American students feel the very real need to look back and find their
basis in this society that is largely indifferent to their needs.  other
students don't see the need, because it is not as importnat to them.  Not that
they don't care, when the issue is developed for them, indeed they are
sympathetic, but in the large picture, it is just not as importnat to them, as
say working to put them selves through school, or even finding a place to park!

This is a big world, and i believe that there is room enough for both points of
view.  But there is not enough room for people to ignore each other.  

A basic principle i learned in debate.  Listening is not the same thing as
waiting to talk.  neither of you are accepting the logic that is the
fundamental basis for the other's arguement.

If you both wish to continue this debate, great, but take it to the mail
because I am sorely disapointed to pick up thread and see " " " " said" " ", it
becomes frustrating.  

How about a new topic, like the horrible failure of the academic system to
graduate african american students?  Just a thought.  

back to the bickering

B Turner
Admissions Officer
University of Cincinnati

	"Views are my own, and nasty remarks will be giggled at "
Xref: sparky misc.education:5552 soc.culture.african.american:13252
From: rowland@zorba7.larc.nasa.gov (Michael W. Rowland)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: Professors: Respond, Please.
Date: 4 Jan 1993 00:05:15 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA 23681  USA
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: rowland@zorba7.larc.nasa.gov (Michael W. Rowland)
NNTP-Posting-Host: zorba7.larc.nasa.gov

As a citizen of this country, I am extremely interested in
what is happening in the public schools and private
universities around the country.  My interest has recently
peeked, and I just read two extremely informative books that
I would like to get opinions on.  They are:

1) "Why Johnny Can't Tell Right from Wrong--moral illiteracy
    and the case for character education,"  William Kilpatrick,
    Vintage Books, 1992

2) "Illiberal Education--the politics of race and sex on
    campus,"  Dinesh D'Souza, Simon & Schuster, 1992

If you have read these books, please send your opinions
and comments to my e-mail address along with your position
within the educational system, if any.  Name optional.

Thank for any responses you offer, and all responses
will be for my personal use only--I promise!

Mike

Mike Rowland (Contractor),  MS 475
NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton VA 23681
internet: rowland@zorba7.larc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: misc.education