From: pavenant@dos-lan.cs.up.ac.za (Paul Avenant)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Hello All!
Date: 13 Oct 92 18:08:15 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Pretoria

>In article <1b4unhINNr3k@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cb366@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
>(Mark B. Bendiksen) wrote:
>> Hello Atheists:
> 
>> I am what most of you would probably call a "Jesus Freak".
>> I have spent some time reading through many of the posts on
>> this newsgroup with much interest. I expected to find much more
>> discussion on deeper philosophical issues (i.e. why you
>> believe in no God, etc.). Instead, this group seems to be
>> If you scan through articles on religious newgroups I dare
>> say you'll find little space wasted talking about "those
>> nutty atheists who don't believe in God". 

Mark, I believe that some of what you say is true. Unfortunately you have 
chosen to make your point in a fairly unconstructive manner, thereby 
negating most of it. However I still think it warrants an answer.


1) There are often deep philosophical issues that get discussed in 
depth (see Atheism and morals etc etc.) Often atheists and theists partake 
in these discussions without any "bashing" taking place, but lets face it : 
statements like "I know GOD exists" or "Jesus loves you" etc. are not great 
starting points for rational discussions.

2) Atheists understand (should at least) that your religion requires you (or 
at least encourages you) to actively spread the word of God and save us non-
believers. Alt.atheism is most probably not the right place to attempt this. 
If you however feel compelled to do it here :
	(i)   do not expect the bible to be accepted as a reference
	(ii)  do not expect to use unsubstantiated emotional arguments
	      and have them accepted
	(iii) do not expect us to WANT to be saved
	(iv)  do not expect us to BE saved
	(v)   remember that all these years of Christians trying to force 
	      their moral views and beliefs down our throats have made us 
              just a little upset. Please learn to discuss things, NOT to 
              preach them

3) The reason why few articles on religious newsgroups "waste time" by 
talking about those "nutty atheists" are:
	(i)   it would seems that the people of the religious newsgroups 
	      spend most of their time under alt.atheism and have little 
	      time for talking about anyting in their own newsgroup
	(ii)  not many atheists have any reason for posting under 
              these newsgroups. We do not have a calling to save 
              anybody	
        (iii) most "nutty atheists who don't believe in God" are 
              searching for those, as implied by your mail, "nutty 
              atheists who DO believe in God" (which is 
              of course really nutty), and therefor do not have time to
	      mail under these religious newsgroups

4) But, yes, you are correct - we do sometimes lose control and go "
christian bashing". Although I understand why we do it (see 2(v), I still do 
not believe that it is right. Atheists should not fall into the same trap as 
Christians ie. 
	should not be intolerant of people with different opinions,
		(including Christians)
	should be open-minded
	should accept the possibility of being wrong
	should brush after every meal
	

"Don't be like sheep and follow the flock" - Cheap Trick
Newsgroups: alt.atheism