HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jerry@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Jerry Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Strength Rating of INL Teams (8/11/92)
Date: 12 Aug 1992 13:48:06 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

INL Ranking by Strength of Opponents
------------------------------------
1.  Arrogant Assholes
2.  Team Crackpot
3.  The Good, The Bad, and the Oggly
4.  12 Angry Men
5.  Gashouse Gorillas
6.  Team Rankscum
7.  The Commanders
8.  Conforganized Disfusion
9.  Golden Bears
10. Hell's Bagels
11. Sons of Dorothy
12. Muppet Attack
13. Lagg U

beat:    10   4   2  12   7   8   1  11   3  13   6   5   9
lost to: -4 -10 -12  -2  -7  -6 -13  -3 -11  -1  -8  -9  -5
        12M  HB  MA  CP  TC  RS  LU GBO SOD  AA  CD  GB  GG  w/l   strength
       *---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*-----*----------*
   12M | *  12M 12M  CP 12M                                | 3/1 |    11    |
   HB  |12M  *           TC                                | 0/2 |   -11    |
   MA  |12M      *   CP  TC         GBO                    | 0/4 |   -16    |
   CP  | CP      CP  *                       AA          CP| 3/1 |    20    |
   TC  |12M  TC  TC      *                   AA            | 2/2 |     1    |
   RS  |                     *               AA      RS    | 1/1 |     4    |
   LU  |                         *      SOD  AA      GB    | 0/3 |   -21    |
   GBO |        GBO                  *  GBO     GBO GBO    | 4/0 |    16    |
   SOD |                        SOD GBO  *       CD      GG| 1/3 |   -15    |
   AA  |             AA  AA  AA  AA          *             | 4/0 |    28    |
   CD  |                            GBO  CD      *       GG| 1/2 |    -5    |
   GB  |                     RS  GB GBO              *     | 1/2 |    -8    |
   GG  |             CP                  GG      GG      * | 2/1 |     7    |
       *---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*---*-----*----------*

INL Ranking by W/L Record
------------------------------------
1.  Arrogant Assholes
    The Good, The Bad, and the Oggly
3.  Team Crackpot
    12 Angry Men
5.  Gashouse Gorillas
6.  The Commanders
7.  Team Rankscum
8.  Conforganized Disfusion
    Golden Bears
10. Sons of Dorothy
11. Hell's Bagels
12. Lagg U
13. Muppet Attack

12M 12 Angry Men
HB  Hell's Bagels
MA  Muppet Attack
CP  Team Crackpot
TC  The Commanders
RS  Team Rankscum
LU  Lagg U
GBO The Good, The Bad, and the Oggly
SOD Sons of Dorothy
AA  Arrogant Assholes
CD  Conforganized Disfusion
GB  Golden Bears
GG  Gashouse Gorillas
-- 
#include ~jerry/ftp/j.gif                 Jerry Anderson
                                          Kansas State University
vox: (913) 532-7001                           Telecommunications
fax: (913) 532-7114                       Manhattan  KS  66506
From: mehlhaff@soda.Berkeley.EDU (ERic Mehlhaff)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Playing with lag
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:31:02
Organization: The U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
	<1992Aug11.021103.23956@u.washington.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: lectro@milton.u.washington.edu's message of Tue, 11 Aug 1992 02:11:03 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.021103.23956@u.washington.edu> lectro@milton.u.washington.edu (Jonathan E. Maier) writes:

   In article <1992Aug11.012429.261681@cs.cmu.edu> jch+@cs.cmu.edu (Jonathan Hardwick) writes:
   >Yes.  Andy, put this in the Frequent Suggestions list.
   >
   >Last time it came up, one objection I remember is that it would become
   >trivial to abuse.  Want to take that last planet?  Lock on, cloak, max
   >warp, and then yank the ethernet connector out of your machine.  Wait
   >30 seconds while the defenders waste all their fuel on you, and then
   >finally realize that you're in Protected Mode.  Stick the ethernet
   >connector back in, beam down your armies, genocide the galaxy.
   >
   How about the "protected mode" meaning not only are *you* protected, but
   you are not allowed to inflict any *offensive* damage.  Thus, you may
   have been locked onto a planet and set to beam down, but during the lag,
   all you did was reach and orbit the plan (whilst receiving no damage
   from the enemy planet nor beaming down any armies).

I'd been contemplating something along these lines for some time. My idea
was more like a 'time-warp', where the 'lagged' player disappears from the
map as soon as the server realizes he is gone.  When the net's back, the 
player mysteriously reappears where they disappeared, exactly as they were
before.  
	The primary abuse I can see from this is that their opposition might
realize this and be waiting for them to reappear at that point.  Obvious
solutions to that are to displace randomly (if enemies are near? ).

What'cha all think?

.s
--
ERic mehlhaff					Hoser at large
mehlhaff@soda.Berzerkeley.EDU
mehlhaff@ocf.berkeley.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: wk5w@luca.bme.Virginia.EDU (William Thang Katz)
Subject: Re: Concept
Reply-To: wk5w@luca.bme.Virginia.EDU (William Thang Katz)
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 12:37:41 GMT

In article <weXo45a00VAxE2P0ss@andrew.cmu.edu>, ts2a+@andrew.cmu.edu
(Thomas Omar Smith) writes:
|> I'm thinking about forming an at large team for the INL, but I'm
going
|> to do it a bit differently if I do.
|> 
|> Instead of building a team to win the tourney, I'm going to build a
|> netrek farm team, consisting of relatively new netrekkers who want
to
|> learn the game better and have problems getting onto teams.  No
|> admirals, rear admirals or commodores for us.  Commanders and
Captains
|> and fleet captains will be our membership.  And instead of trying to
|> crush people, we will try to hone our techniques and become better
team
|> players by fighting against the best there is to offer, and doing it
as
|> best we can.  I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who would
|> like to be on a team, but aren't really sure they are qualified. 
Well,
|> then you can join us.  You might not make the finals, but you may
become
|> a better player for it.
|> 
|>  [...]
|> 					Tom the non hacker
|> 					Kemp in 96!
|> 					"If patriotism is the last refuge
|> 					of scoundrels,  Then environmentalism
|> 					is the current refuge of totalitarians."
|> 					Bob Jackson

There already is a team like this and it's called the Twelve Angry Men.
The original 12 AM team, I believe, had nobody above Flt. Capt. status.
Some of us were less than a couple months into netrek.  The Fall 12 AM
roster may include a number of players at Commodore or higher rank.
We are currently looking at recruits (*still looking for new
applicants*)
through some internal 8x8 scrimmages.  The bottom line is that we don't
turn away veterans, but we also don't turn away the *lowly* Commander
who
has clue but hasn't been in netrek for long.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

-D'Spayre/Unknown Ogger/ and now Gandhi (the non-aggressive ogger)
 Twelve Angry Men
Organization: Freshman, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 03:44:06 -0400 
From: Rick <stimpy+@cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: AA vs 12AM

Excerpts from rec.games.netrek wk5w@@mtaac.bme.Virginia.EDU
# Towards the end of the game, my client died for some
# reason and I had to restart it.  Does this reset stats or is the army
# bombed counter busted?

Yes, that resets the session stats. Here are the true game stats:
5 planets and 50 armies for D'Spayre.

--Rick
"Bronco Netrek Server. You will never find a more wretched hive of
scum and villainy." -- Admiral Kenobi (aka Terence Chang)
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: MetaServerII v0.1
Date: 22 Aug 92 21:02:15 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Aug21.202053@cunix4.Prime.COM> jasonp@cunix4.Prime.COM (Jason R. Pascucci) writes:
>Clever suggestions:
>
>How about a more 'formatted' port? Something which gives,
>basically, all the data of 1 and 4, with some nice

Just for the sake of conversation, let's call them:
3520: old
3521: new
3522: verbose
3523: info
3524: faq

(this is how they're referred to internally, and it's easier to remember
them that way.)

>I was thinking something along the idea of:
>
>S: <servername>
>I: <inet addr?>
>P: <port>
>C: <short comment>
>D: <date checked>
>#: <number of players active?>
>W: <number of players waiting?>
>P: <player info>
>P: <player info>
>P: <player info>
>S: <servername>....

My god, it's Netrek in bib format! :-)

You can only have "#" or "W" *unless* port-1 is supported, in which case
you can get both.  Note that I haven't actually written the code to support
port 2591 yet (beyond a grep for "No one is playing"), so if you want 2591
to do more than just give a player list a la Sturgeon NOW WOULD BE A GOOD TIME
to talk about it (hint, hint).

But, certainly, this could be done.  It's relatively easy to add new ports
to MS-II (although not as easy as I would've liked... I was set on having
just the "old" and "new" ports until the code was about 75% done, and I had
a sudden revelation...)

>With additional information on another port, perhaps
>B: <borgs? YES/NO/MAYBE>
>H: <Hours, in a nice format>
>T: <contact name>
>1: <comments>
>9: <more comments>

The only thing I dislike about this is that it becomes difficult to just
plop the faq in.  Of course, if the server faq came in this format, it'd
be a lot easier.

Something Beorn suggested while I was plugging MS-II on Bezier last night
was to include a flag for LPS.  I'm not sure what info on planets gets sent
initially (drat, forgot to look); if it's just the planet names, forget it,
but if it also sends army counts or ownership, it could be done.  There's
room on the "new" screen for a "flags" column, which could have stuff like
'L' for LPS, 'B' for borg hours, etc, etc.

>Jason R. Pascucci
>jasonp@primerd.prime.com

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
From: rone@girtab.usc.edu (Ron Echeverri)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: SOLUTION TO FILLING UP ALL SERVERS
Date: 16 Aug 1992 03:39:52 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: girtab.usc.edu


Eliminate the wait queue.  That'll force people to collect on the next 
available server.

Earlier today i saw a 14person waitQ on bezier, followed by a 5pwQ, a 2pwQ
and a 1pwQ on the metaserver.  The next 'available' server was one of the
chaos servers at KSU.

Eliminate the wait queue (again).  Perhaps this will lead to more games being
played and less time wasted doing actual work while waiting for the window
to pop up.


5150
maybe i should go to sleep now
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: cks@hawkwind.utcs.toronto.edu (Chris Siebenmann)
Subject: Re: Unhappy
Organization: Ziebmef home away from home
Date: 16 Aug 92 10:17:49 GMT

"Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
| 	There seem to be two reasons to have the INL: to play fun, high-quality
| games instead of normal pick-up games, and to vent some ego and
| determine who are the best teams.

 I have said before, and I will say again, that I think the (S)INL would
be a much better place if we threw out end of season championships and
simply considered it a good way to get quality games together regularly.
People who cared about rankings could take raw or cooked stats from the
statisticians (like the people computing 'ranks') and derive something
from them. People who disagreed with relative rankings could arrange
games against other teams to add more data.

--
	"Apart from the side-mounted railguns, I demand very little
	 from my car but that it get me around in reasonable comfort
	 and dubious safety."				- J Greely
cks@hawkwind.utcs.toronto.edu	           ...!{utgpu,utzoo,watmath}!utgpu!cks
From: leonard@mimsy.umd.edu (Leonard Dickens)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Wait Que Solution????????
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:35:35 GMT
Organization: Universal Export Ltd, Regent's Park, London

>>How difficult would it be to implement something such that the
>>people in the wait queue could send messages to each other?
>
>This is possibly in the suggested enhancements of the Official NBR.

Nope.  There is a tmode-queue change, but nothing like this.  The
problem here is that the server would have to be hacked too in order
to accept messages from non-players... using either the ALL board, or
the warning facility would probably be the easiest way to adapt the
current client and server to do this.

-Leonard
From: bharat@shadow.Eng.Sun.COM (Bharat Mediratta)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: compiling netrek client
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:34:15 GMT
Reply-To: bharat@shadow.Eng.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: shadow

In article 16vjvcINN3db@agate.berkeley.edu, c60b-3eb@web-3e.berkeley.edu (Kevin Campbell) writes:
>Hi all,
>  In a couple of days I Summer semester will end and I will lose my
>account, from which I have been getting my netrek fix.  Fortunately, I
>have access to a couple of Sun SparcStation 2's (yes!), but I have
>been unable to get a client that will work on these machines.  I have
>tried compiling the source code (which I ftp'd from scam.berkeley.edu) but
>but it didn't quite work.  What happened was that I could connect to
>the server and enter the game, but after that it wouldn't accept any
>more input or give me any output (in other words, it froze).  My guess
>is that this has something to do with the Xwindows environment, but
>that's just my guess.  I'm running in Xwindows version 11.

This is most likely happening because the server just threw your client
out for not being blessed :-).  You should be able to get a blessed sun4
client from pittslug.sug.org or one of those netrek ftp servers...

>
>_Kevin
>"It's not how you say it, it's whether there's a booger hanging out of
>your nose when you say it."



---
    /\        Bharat Mediratta
   \\ \       Graphics Continuation Group
  \ \\ /      
 / \/ / /     
/ /   \//\    SUN Microsystems, Inc.	
\//\   / /    Mailstop: MTV18-218
 / / /\ /     2550 Garcia Avenue, Building 18
  / \\ \      Mountain View, CA 94043
   \ \\       Phone:  (415)336-4347, FAX:(415)336-5471
    \/        Email:  bharat.mediratta@eng.sun.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: rjones@itchy.dsd.es.com (Ray Jones - Perp)
Subject: Re: Warp vs Acclereation
Organization: Design Systems Division, Evans & Sutherland, SLC, UT
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 04:28:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.023311.820@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> jiangwu@sickdog.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Jiang Wu) writes:
>The Netrek game for the Macintosh does this acceleration idea.  I don't
>like it at all.  It is too hard to control.  Besides, with all the 
>technology of the 23rd century, the ship computer should be able to 
>maintain constant speed for you.  :-)

It is hell to control... From max warp to docking on a planet in a SC or DD
takes around 10 secs, assuming you've had practice.  In an SB, it's a
minute or so.  (warp 15 is the unofficial speed of light I used... it
seemed about right... it may be a little high.)

The nice thing is, you don't need to dock except to beam down/up.  Hurt?
Get going at a reasonable speed, then start repairing.  Your Thrust goes to
0, and you use no fuel.  Meanwhile you're bouncing around the galaxy, and
anyone trying to kill you first has to catch up with you.  Claoking and
sitting still is perhaps one of hte most effective ways not to die.  People
shoot by, spraying torps, one hits, but by then, they're off the screen...

Flint may have the change as an option soon.... I'd like to set up a game
so everyone can get the chance to try it.  As long as you go into it
expecting to have fun and be completely thwarted at everything you
normallly take for granted, it's loads of fun.  

Anyone interested?

>-- Jiang Wu
>   jiangwu@postgres.berkeley.edu


--
                                          rjones@dsd.es.com
Organization: Sophomore, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 03:56:47 -0400 
From: "Robert W. Hill" <rh3b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: SINL finals


Howdy.

After close consultation with team AA and RS captains, we have decided
to call the SINL championship a tie.  Neither team could field a team to
play for at least 2 weeks.  We feel that this is way to long a wait to
finish up the SINL, so we are calling the game a tie.  After 2 weeks, we
may play a scrimmage game for bragging rights, but the official word is
TIE.

Perhaps the ogglies can play crackpot, just to see who'd win (for
kicks)?  I'd like to see it, anyway :-).

Thanks for the games, guys!  Hope to play you in the fall.

Rob
aka Spaceace!

acting co-captain Arrogant Assholes
From: davidt@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (David Teo)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: gfborg renewal
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:57:38 GMT
Reply-To: davidt@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (David Teo)


If you find a bug, first ftp it again from the site and if the bug is
still there, send me mail at davidt@cs.utexas.edu.  Someone else may
have found the bug before you do.
I will try to update the gfborg on the ftp site constantly.
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: genie@netcom.com (The Genie)
Subject: Re: different approach for INL
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 18:03:51 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Aug20.145708.1589@leland.Stanford.EDU> tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen) writes:
>In article <16sd7jINNcdv@agate.berkeley.edu> tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:
>> This idea has proponents on the Council, but I don't like it.  I *like*
>>playing with people I know; it's not only a question of skill or 
>>communication, it's a question of being able to do stuff after the
>>game, to have team parties, to watch CAL kick some stanford ASS in the
>>Big Game, whatever.
>
>ha!  you weenies haven't beaten us in the four years i've been at stanford.
>perhaps you should change that to "watch cal get kicked in the ass by
>stanford in the Big Game."
>

Hey, go complain to someone about stanford's net.  Everything
from the bay area has to go out that way, but stanford can't even
keep a net up and running half the time.  Every time I get hosed
playing on an away server, stanford's barrnet is to blame (e.g. oggly
game).  Shish.
From: btd@IASTATE.EDU (Benjamin T Dehner)
Subject: Re: HELP with my .xtrekrc
Reply-To: btd@IASTATE.EDU (Benjamin T Dehner)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 18:16:03 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.150057@IASTATE.EDU>, haefner@IASTATE.EDU (Ralph I Haefner)
writes:
> Hi, 
> 
> I am having trouble with my .xtrekrc
> 
> my keymaps are like this:
> 
> 
> keymap: tT DCrrT
> 
> the problem is, i want the space bar to det my torps, but that doesnt work
> however, the tractor is r or t, and change ship is C, just as i wish it
> to be.  So why isnt the  " D" making the space bar det my torps?
> 
> If you could help me, thanks
> 
> Tal
> (Clueless)

	I think I found the problem with his keymap; there was an extra space
on the end after the 'T', thus the space was either mapped into nothing or
into a carriage return.  Haven't tried it yet, so don't know.

Cthulhu

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benjamin T. Dehner    Dept. of Physics and Astronomy 
btd@iastate.edu       Iowa State University 
                      Ames, IA 50011
From: leonard@mimsy.umd.edu (Leonard Dickens)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: YAR.C (yet another reserved.c)
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:03:46 GMT
Organization: Universal Export Ltd, Regent's Park, London

Alan Cabrera writes:
>[Ray Jones:]
>> > [Alan:]
>> > [RSA might sue if we use RSA encryption.]
>> 
>> I don't think so... YOu may be thinking of DES encryption.  Even so, they
>> are free to sue me for every peeny I make off of writing it up.
>> 
>> >[Government may not like the idea either]
>> 
>> the method for RSA is completely public.  Exporting it isn't a problem. 
>
>Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong!  I'm speaking from experience.  They, RSA
>Inc., WILL have their hoard of lawyers hound you till you obtain a
>license

After checking with archie yesterday, I found a RSA package
(admittedly for PCs, but even shitty computers need security) named
"pgp10.zip": pretty good privacy.  Reading through the meager
documentation that came with it, I certainly had the impression that
the RSA encryption -- large prime number exponentiation -- was NOT
protected.  (Pgp is distrubted under copyleft, and there were no other
copyrights that I noticed.)  There was a digestifying (signature)
module that came with it, that was apparently from RSA, that did have
use conditions.

What experience do you have with the RSA lawyers?  What did you do,
and how did they hound you?


>RSA is not public, it is covered by a United States Government patent.
>Exporting it is COMPLETELY forbidden.

The pgp package is available all over the world, in ftp sites in
places like Finland, Germany, Australia, etc.  Check archie, really.
I don't understand how this could be if it is forbidden.

Perhaps there are only versions of it that Officialdom care about?  In
which case, we need only use one of the acceptable variants... like pgp.

-Leonard
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: esj@cs.brown.edu (Eugene Santos Jr.)
Subject: Re: NEW NETREK LEAGUE
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 06:10:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.005752@cunix4.Prime.COM> jasonp@cunix4.Prime.COM (Jason R. Pascucci) writes:
>Interesting idea. 
>
>However, I prefer the notion of a 'Minor League' INL-type organization, 
 [...]

This idea has been indirectly hinted at before: So, to make it a proposal:
Someone start up a netrek camp for beginners!!!!!! Preferably
someone with a server!!!

uucp:	...!{ihnp4,decvax}!brunix!esj		Eugene Santos Jr.
bitnet:	esj@browncs.bitnet			PO Box 1910, Computer Science
arpa:	esj%cs.brown.edu@relay.cs.net		Brown University
csnet:	esj@cs.brown.edu			Providence, RI 02912
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: fortony@sonne.cso.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: the endless quest for the perfect keymap
Originator: fortony@murphy
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 05:13:19 GMT
Keywords: keymap

rjones@itchy.dsd.es.com (Ray Jones - Perp) writes:

>In article <fortony.714262107@murphy> fortony@sonne.cso.uiuc.edu writes:

>>Space bar as pressor is the One True Keymap.  Especially in light ships,
>>where you really don't want to be any closer than you have to.  I think
>>I snagged this habit from Spiff or Red Shirt, one of whom sent me his
>>keymap when I was a wee lad.

>Lies!  Blasphemy!  And from a SC bomber, no less.  

Look, Ray, you bleating, verminous gutterweed, I am *the* scout bomber.

>Space Bar is and shall always be MAX WARP.  Especially for SCs, where
>pressoring and tractoring only differ in that one puts a 'P' and one puts a
>'T' in your status bar.

I have escaped from Mojo Riser.  I have escaped from Videodrome.  I have
escaped from, yes, even Ged.

The extra little warp 2 or so that you get by fighting the tide 
can be everything.  If I am near enough to someone that they are
grabbing onto me and seeing how many licks it takes to get to
a sunscreamer pop, I'm already going maxwarp and struggling
to throw headfakes with the mouse.  I don't need to try to find
a pressor key at this point.

Also, I dogfight like a quadruplegic chihuahua.  When I do try
to fly up a ship class or two, I want to be able to get some
breathing space and/or put the hex on incoming uncloaking oggers.
Pressors are the lifeblood of .5 ratio/.5 defense people like
myself.

rear ensign sunscreamer

(gotta use that undertow directional pull, you know)
>--
>                                          rjones@dsd.es.com
-- 
a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
Felix Sebastian Ortony	fortony@murphy.gis.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek