From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: How should we decline singular 'they' ?
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:29:20 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1992Aug27.095508.10385@waikato.ac.nz> maj@waikato.ac.nz writes:
>How should we decline singular 'they' ?

>I address this question to those who, like me, would
>like to substitute a singular 'they' for 'he/she' and
>similar constructions, and to those who are willing to
>think themselves into this position for the sake of
>the discussion.

>Consider the sentence :

>  'The reader will find it easier to understand C
>  declarations and definitions if he/she keeps in 
>  perspective that an object declaration or definition
>  looks very much like the way the object will be
>  referenced in an expression.'

(Quick point: "by keeping in perspective that" is not exactly 
idiomatic.  One keeps in *mind* that...and keeps things in perspective.
At least, that's true around here; as an editor, I'd probably make
that repair, not least for brevity.  Also, "perspective/looks like" is 
perhaps unnecesarily and confusingly metaphoric.)

(Quick genderless recasting: "by keeping in mond that...")

>If we could treat 'they' as singular we would replace
>'he/she keeps' with 'they keeps'. If we use 'they keep'
>it sounds better but clashes in number with 'the reader'.

Do you know any counterpoint?  (Not intended to be condescending;
just an analogy.)  In counterpoint, simultaneous cross-relations
are forbidden; e.g., F and F Sharp may not sound together.  In the
strictest forms of counterpoint, consecutive cross-relation is also
forbidden; that is, if you have an F in any part on one beat, you may  
not have an f sharp in any part on the next (or the previous) beat.

Clashes of number are like that, too.  "He keep" and "they keeps"
don't work because subject and verb are so close; they are in their 
canonical adjacent positions.  Whn you make a sentence in several clauses,
even though the referent may remain the same thing, things can change
because the distance is much greater, both in time/space on the page
and within the structure of the sentence.  As in counterpoint, the 
clash is less intense.

>Do you think that if we grit our teeth, get ready for
>flack and condescension, and go on saying 'they keeps'
>it will come to sound better in time ?

Probably not; but the number shift within a larger sentence is not 
something that its users grit their teeth about.  Besides, you can
save a lot of expensive dental work later on by just recasting the
90% of sentences that trouble you so, e.g., the one above.

Again, no condescension; just a way of writing comfortably.

Note that nobody naturally says "they keeps"; but many people 
naturally use the g-s "they" with the plural verb when the rest of
the sentence has already signalled the g-s meaning.

>This problem does not arise with singular and plural
>'you' because there is no difference in inflection.
>Which raises another option: should we instead attack
>our last remaining inflection and start saying 'he keep'
>and 'she keep' ?

Why?  Why attack anything?  The g-s "they" has the problem of
floating verb number within a sentence because we *can't* attack 
something so basic.  

Roger
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english