HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (Andreas  Tovornik)
Subject: Re: BARBIE DOES IT AGAIN!!!!
Reply-To: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 22:52:54 GMT

In article 3737@master.CNA.TEK.COM, judyd@rosebud.CNA.TEK.COM (Judy E. Drake) writes:

>She has said over and over (how many times does it have to be 
>repeated, anyway?) that she isn't talking about defending oneself
>against violence, that she is condemning _unprovoked_ violence.

Unprovoked violence: Why does it happen anyway? IMHO children who are
violent without provocation have problems with their self esteem.
Why is their self esteem so low that they have to derive security
by beating up on other kids? The ol' nuclear family thing could be at
fault. Both parents work hard to afford the nice house, a car and a
minivan, piano lessons, orthodontia, etc.

The parents are working so hard that the children get neglected between
the ages of six and sixteen. If they don't do well at school, then what
do they get their security from? Dominance is the only thing they
understand in this context. Parents come home from a long day at the
office, and yes, they are tired and their fuses are short. When I was
Thirteen, My father had a heart attack. He was off from work for a
year recuperating. I got to know him better because he had time for me.

HE went back to work and the weird drugs that the doctor prescribed
made it so that he could handle no stress. He tried to kill me on one
occasion just for closing the door in such a way that he heard it 
closing.This illustration is the extreme case. 

If I end up marrying and become a parent, I would make sure that the 
wife (or myself as househusband) would be at home to spend quality time 
with the kid(s) while they are growing up into self-confident adults.

BTW, the thing about my father physically assaulting me helped to start
a downward spiral in my own self-confidence that took years to get out 
of. Children learn by example, and the bullies are those that get 
smacked around at home. 

Andreas. 



>Being non-violent and non-aggressive does NOT mean that a person is
>unprepared to defend him or herself.  I know some pretty peaceful,
>unaggressive black belts who could really do some damage if seriously
>threatened.  But that's not the issue here.  The issue is uncalled-for
>aggression and unprovoked violence.  I'm with Diane--I don't see any
>value in encouraging it, in children or anyone else.
>
>Judy Drake




Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: sbass@monarch.dev.cdx.mot.com (Steven M. Bass)
Subject: Re: baby backpacks
Organization: Motorola Codex, Canton, Massachusetts
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 12:20:36 GMT

daved@convex.com (David Dorfman) writes:

>In <1992Oct6.154755.17261@u.washington.edu> wolffie@u.washington.edu writes:

>>The *Tough Traveller* backpack (the more expensive model) is a good unit  
>>that I've been quite satisfied with.  One thing impressive about it is that  
>>the designers came up with the only *quickly* adjustable back height  
>>adjustment I've ever seen on a backpack; this is important because Mom & Dad  
>>are seldom the same height. 

When we bought our Tough Traveler child carriers from REI, there was a
model which came without the frame and attached to your own standard
backpack frame. In addition to getting the advantage of using your own
well-adjusted frame, it was significantly cheaper. (Of course it isn't
as adjustable.) We bought our last one four years ago, so I don't know
if this is still available. It wasn't in REI's catalog, but was
available when we called and asked.

(Our son having now outgrown his, if anyone in the Boston area is
interested in buying one give me a call.)

Steven Bass										617-821-7081
Motorola Codex									sbass@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com

This disclaimer void where prohibited by law
Xref: sparky misc.kids:25615 misc.education:3650 k12.chat.teacher:4167 sci.med:18846
From: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Newsgroups: misc.kids,misc.education,k12.chat.teacher,sci.med
Subject: Re: Attention Deficit Disorder Resources
Date: 9 Oct 92 13:07:56 GMT
Reply-To: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Followup-To: misc.kids
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <aidler.718466968@sanjuan| aidler@sanjuan.UVic.CA (E Alan Idler) writes:
|My response:
|
|How many M.D.s perform unnecessary surgery routinely
|just to make some (a lot of) dollars?
|How many unnecessary hysterectomies are performed because
|the M.D. receives a fee for removing a woman's ovaries
|and/or uterus and zip for leaving them alone?

So this means that hysterectomies are never indicated?
Seems like you would like to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

|
|So, you take your child to an impartial M.D. who can
|receive a fee for prescribing and monitoring a drug
|or lose a patient to alternative therapy.
|Which would any reputable M.D. recommend?

Hmm. You take your car to a shop which profits from
fixing the problem it diagnoses. Do you find it
improbable that a physician might be as scrupulous
as a car mechanic?

|When Canada's College of Chiropractic was going to relocate
|from Toronto to the University of Victoria, why did the
|B.C.M.A. (the doctor's union) appear in force to block them?
|How can alternative medical practitioners demonstrate the
|scientific basis for their treatments without any resources
|for research?
|Could better trained chiropractors be a threat to M.D.s
|incomes through their monopoly on health care?

Well, the last ad I got in the mail from a chiropracter
claimed that misaligned disks caused everything from
rheumatoid arthritis to diabetes. I have also seen a
couple of people about to pith themselves who were
"manipulated" in an attempt to control their symptoms.
If chiropracters stuck to what they know how to do,
they would receive less antagonism from doctor.

Doctor's union! What a horrible thought.

|Why can't chiropractors and midwifes treat their patients
|in hospitals, even at the patient's request?
|Could it be that M.D.s won't risk competing for the care
|of an informed public?

The answer probably lies more in liability considerations
for the hospital than objection from doctors. I can't
honestly think of what a chiropracter would be doing on
a patient who requires hospitatization, but I'm probably
just ignorant in this area.

|And *you* think I am naive ...

No. I think your attitude is tragic, especially if
you prevent a child from receiving proper diagnosis
and treatment.


 -km
From: rmorey@utrcv1 (Randall Morey)
Subject: Re: Names (don't do this to your kids)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: United Technologies Research Center
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 21:26:00 GMT

Do nicknames count? I used to know a "Buster Hymen" and a "Buster Orifice".

There was also a TV reporter in Connecticut named "Skip Church".

Randy Morey
United Technologies Research Center
East Hartford, CT
"Those who play the sax play twice."
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: cew@med.unc.edu (Cathryn W. Chiesa)
Subject: Just a test
Originator: cew@pelham
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 12:42:34 GMT

I have gotten no news for two days and am just testing to
see what happens to this message.

Cathryn Chiesa

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: cma@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (christine.m.dakes)
Subject: "ear" thermometers
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:25:34 GMT
Keywords: questions, cheaper source?


Re: "ear" thermometers

They sound great, and I'd like to get one.  In all my baby-stuff catalogs
they are always $119.95, and it seems to be the same brand.

Questions:  Is there more than one brand?  Is one kind better than
another?  Are they always $119.95 or does anyone know a cheaper source?
I haven't seen them in stores, only in catalogs, any stores offer
them (or are cheaper?).  I haven't checked medical supply stores yet,
but there's 2 by me I should check.

Thanks...

Christine
first-time-mom-2-b 1/19/93
From: judyd@rosebud.CNA.TEK.COM (Judy E. Drake)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: places to live in the USA
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:29:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: master.3746
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Redmond,  OR.

In article <3363@isgtec.isgtec.com> mike@isgtec.com (Mike Sellers) writes:
>
>My top choice for livability, cost, etc., especially considering factors 
>like gardening, traffic, crime, climate, schools, and other family needs,
>is still the Portland area, specifically Tualatin/Sherwood, without question.
>The entire Pacific NorthWest ("upper left coast" :-) ) is quite good...

Actually, Oregon (and the whole Pacific Northwest, for that matter) is
a TERRIBLE place to live!!  It's cold, wet, damp here--terrible climate,
really unfriendly people, awful schools.  Oh yeah, and crime--LOTS of
crime.  And I almost forgot--no jobs here either.  Not to mention a
bunch of active volcanoes.  No point in coming here at all, actually!  
California is much, much nicer.

;^)

Judy Drake
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: lauraf@classy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Laura Floom)
Subject: Re: Air travel w/2 yr old!
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 22:31:51 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.165413.17054@octel.com> cathy@octel.com (Cathy Kearns) writes:
>
>We also use the toy/45 minutes of flight method.  (As you can see I changed
>the timespan, really just assuming some toys would be total flops.)  The
>toy that kept her attention the longest was, believe it or not, the old
>99cent Silly Putty.  She could "make balls", "make snakes", bounce the
>balls, flatten the balls and make copies of my crossword puzzles... I
>was amazed.  Since I only alotted that toy 45 minutes to an hour, and
>she was enthralled for 4 hours with it, I have left over toys for the
>next trip.  (By the way, my daughter was 2 and 1/2 at the time. Today
>she turns three!  Happy Birthday Alison.)

Jeffrey (2.5+ years) is about to take his first plane ride. It is going to
be a long one - to Miami (from LA). We are having no problems stocking up on
toys, and if we dont stop soon, we will end up with a new one every 10 minutes.
It is surprising how many fun little toys there are out there. 

We also bought Jeffrey a new book that we will start reading a couple of
days before take off. It is called Airport by Byron Barton, and is geared
to a young toddler. It covers a flight from arriving at the airport to 
take off. 

The only think I havent figured out is what to do about his ears. He doesnt
drink from a bottle and he is too young for chewing gum. Those are the two
standard I have heard to handle the problem. I suppose I can give him juice
with a straw, but unless he is thirsty he isnt going to drink it. Anyone
out there have any good ideas that they have used?

Laura Floom

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: smb@ulysses.att.com (Steven Bellovin)
Subject: 3 YO and relabeling...
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 23:12:52 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

Daniel, age 3, will arbitrarily relabel things.  For example, at times
he'll insist that his lovey, a Fuzzy Friend raccoon, is really a cat,
a lion, an alligator, a wolf, etc.  Once he does this, he'll refer to
it only by his new name.  What's worse, he'll insist that we use the
new name as well.  Makes life confusing...

Not at all to my surprise, he's now started talking about an imaginary
friend.  Actually, it was gratifying, since just two days earlier I'd
predicted that that he'd start doing that soon.
From: owens@gargoyle.uchicago.edu (Christopher Owens)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Sugarbabies
Date: 9 Oct 92 21:32:29 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, The Univ of Chicago

In article <1b4qmgINNona@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> pburch@bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch) writes:

>"It's so important," they said, "to use honey instead of sugar."
>

Honey, btw, may be implicated in infant botulism, and is consequently
not recommended for infants.  Apparently it supports the growth of
anaerobic bacteria, in particular the producer of botulism toxin, at
levels that, while no problem for adults, can cause problems for
infants.

One of my favorite nutritional labeling absurdities was the listed
presence of "dehydrated refined cane juice" in a "no added sugar"
product. 

Is there any evidence to support the oft-repeated claim that eating an
equivalent amount of fructose, as compared with sucrose, produces less
of an abrupt spike in blood glucose?  I had always dismissed it, but I
keep hearing it again and again.
From: srb@aretha.jax.org (Susan Dewey)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: When did you feel "grown-up"  (was: Re: maternity lingerie)
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:20:45 GMT
Followup-To: misc.kids
Organization: The Jackson Laboratory

In article <6OCT199210193592@eldyn.gsfc.nasa.gov>,
goldberg@eldyn.gsfc.nasa.gov (Patti Twigg) wrote:
> Well, similar thing here. When my mother died suddenly, just 6 months after
> watching my father-in-law die, I realized we were next in line. But,
> on the up side, it was also the time I realized that I wanted to
> have kids.


Me too. Except it was my father and it took a year. At that point I started
feeling responsible for my mom as well as myself. A friend had told me that
you never really grow up until a parent dies. I think he was right.

A lot had made me feel old before, though:

- I was 23 and a 6 year-old had stared up at me: "How many years ago did
you learn to swim?" and I answered 20.

- Another little girl asked what I had wanted to be when I grew up -- a
mother or a teacher. I was 28 and a teacher by then.

- Realizing I was getting up by myself, making my own coffee & breakfast.

- Realizing that my friend who had had her first kid at age 36, ten years
before, was the same age I was when I had mine. And I had thought she was
old!

- Looking at people on the street/bus and thinking "My God, he must be at
least 40" then realizing that so am I and he looks a lot older than I feel.
From: liz@marvin.contex.com (Elizabeth Cyr Jones)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: What happened to Barney?
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:10:27 GMT
Organization: Xyvision Design Systems

In article <1992Oct13.163925.13847@nas.nasa.gov> choi@wk59.nas.nasa.gov (Diana Choi) writes:
>In article <4570271@hpfcdc.fc.hp.com> janem@hpfcdc.fc.hp.com (Jane Marcus) writes:
>>>Uhmm, interesting.  Can you tell us why you don't like Barney?
>>
>>I agree that Barney is good entertainment for my kids; I have no
>>objection to them watching it.  My point was that *I* hate to watch it.
[stuff deleted here]
>>
>Same here ...yuck seems real phoney to me.  But my nieces LOVE it and even
[other deletions]
>
>diana


Thank goodness! I thought I was the only one who couldn't stand
Barney and the kids on the show. There's something "strange"
about them. I'd wondered about their overacting and moronic
smiles so much so that it crossed my mind that they were from
some bizarre cult. (No offense intended to those who believe in
their cult of choice.) But the kids do seem to be sort of vacant
eyed...

liz jones
liz@contex.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids,soc.singles
From: nance@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (nancy.l.colucci)
Subject: Re: BARBIE DOES IT AGAIN!!!!
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 13:23:11 GMT

I said:
>> I didn't know married people were better or worse that single people.
>> I do, however, know some single people who are single because they
>> have a hell of a lot of guts.  Why did YOU get married??
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
In article <DANIEL.92Oct9105904@algol.clsi.COM> daniel@clsi.COM (Daniel Barclay) writes:
>I'm curious.  What do you mean?  Are you referring to single parents or other
>single people?

Single parents, single people, etc.  Those who choose to get out of
abusive marriages and face life as a single person, even if it means
raising a very young child on their own.  AND, those who choose the
single life instead of getting married for a meal ticket.

Healthy loving marriages are great, and in my opinion the best
marriage is where you marry your best friend.

-Nance
-- 
Nance Colucci  *^*^*^*^*^*    o__    *^*^*^*^*  |  Work that body!
att!ihlpk!colucci            _.>/               | Stay fit for life.
                            (_) \(_)                           
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: willis@sscvx1.ssc.gov
Subject: Re: When did you feel "grown-up" 
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:52:23 GMT

Well, I remember when I first started teaching as a new assistant professor,
and realizing that I couldn't cut class any more! It was a bit of a shock - 
and I've felt a bit jealous of my students ever since... :-)
			Sue Willis
			mom to Leo, 34 months

Xref: sparky misc.kids:25379 misc.education:3613 k12.chat.teacher:4127 sci.med:18672
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: misc.kids,misc.education,k12.chat.teacher,sci.med
Subject: Re: Attention Deficit Disorder Resources
Date: 7 Oct 92 14:54:53 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Followup-To: misc.kids
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <aidler.718259472@sanjuan> aidler@sanjuan.UVic.CA (E Alan Idler) writes:

>The allergy treatments, modified diet, forbidding him to
>watch violence on T.V., and more rigid routine at school 
>and home has allowed my son to make some progress in 
>controlling his own behavior without the possible
>side-effects of Ritalin.
>I don't know whether he will ever reach the point where 
>he will be able to participate in a regular classroom.
>
>I empathize with parents efforts to manage an ADD child
>within their family.  Providing for my son's care has 
>taken concerted effort from my wife (a full-time mother), 
>myself, his two younger sisters, and our school district.
>For families with less resources (time) to contain one of 
>these children, perhaps Ritalin is more appropriate treatment.
>

It is painful to watch devoted and well meaning parents
who are trying to protect their child from something terrible
that doesn't exist ("possible long term effects of Ritalin")
and in the process perhaps causing him serious long term harm.
I would urge you and your wife to make a thorough study of
the literature on Ritalin.  At least, you should consider trying it short
term to see what a difference in might make for your son.
No one thinks there are any harmful effects from a short
course.  That would give you more data in order to make a
decision which will have lifelong repercussions for this
child.  I'm assuming, of course, that your son has had
a proper consultation with a pediatric neurologist or
psychiatrist to determine that the correct diagnosis is ADD.
(In addition, there are other drugs, such as Cylert, which
are less potent than Ritalin and might work for him).



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky misc.kids:25817 sci.med:19000 misc.education:3669
From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David A. Nye MD)
Newsgroups: misc.kids,sci.med,misc.education
Subject: Re: Attention Deficit Disorder Resources
Date: 10 Oct 92 01:13:05 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire

In article <1992Oct7.194618.20243@newstand.syr.edu>, mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Mark D. Kline) writes:
[stuff about ADD, Ritalin and Pamelor]

Although the tricyclics don't work quite as well as stimulants in
my experience in the treatment of ADD, they are better when the
child also has Tourettes (multiple tics), which Ritalin will often
exacerbate.  I've used imipramine.  It also works well for bed-
wetting.  The main problem with nortriptyline (Pamelor) is it's
price.  Amitriptyline and imipramine cost around a tenth as much
because they are both available as generics.
Xref: sparky misc.kids:25634 soc.singles:27364
From: pburch@bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch)
Newsgroups: misc.kids,soc.singles
Subject: Re: BARBIE DOES IT AGAIN!!!!
Date: 9 Oct 1992 14:57:24 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
Distribution: na
Reply-To: pburch@bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch)
NNTP-Posting-Host: roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu
Originator: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu


In article <1992Oct8.074136.7232@newstand.syr.edu>, kgatling@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Keith E Gatling) writes:
|> Regarding the thread here about Diane supposedly not letting her son fight
|> back (and I suspect that a lot of you read that wrong), let me add my 2c
|> without importing previous transcripts.
|> 
|> First of all, I was one of those kids who was raised to not fight back, or
|> at least to avoid confrontations where possible.  The result?  I got beat up
|> on a regular basis.  

I always fought back, but I was still the favorite target for beating 
up on a regular basis.

My anecdote cancels out your anecdote!

(I suppose it might have helped if I'd known how to do it better, but 
I don't want to chime in on that side of the argument right now.)

Paula Burch
pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
From: tbachman@hamline.edu. (Toni Bachmann 6412947)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: ADD FAQ Person back - alive and well
Date: 16 Oct 92 17:28:16 GMT
Organization: Hamline University, St. Paul, Minnesota. [The Little U]

Hi misc.kidder's:

I have been out of commission for a while due to system upgrades - I wanted
to post to let you know that if you have e-mailed stories for or requests for
the ADD/ADHD FAQ they may have bounced.  (Our news reader and e-mail was not
working for two weeks.)  It appears that everything is now working again.

I also am realizing (after a long reading period yesterday) that I missed
much discussion on ADD lately, and I'm wondering if anyone kept copies of
the articles posted - and if so, would you mind mailing them to me????

If you are interested in posting a story to the FAQ, I would really 
appreciate it - it is very skimpy still. xxxxxxx VERY xxxxxxx :-)

Thanks for the air-time!

Toni

tbachman@hamline.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: jeffk@dosXX.med.utah.edu (Jeff Knell)
Subject: Re: places to live in the USA
Organization: Department of Genetics, University of Utah
Date: 7 Oct 92 13:21:57

   ...
   I'd like some idea from the group of good places to work and bring up kids in
   the USA, Canada or Aus. It is very impt for us to get good jobs but it is also
   very impt to have a good life style for us as a family.
   ...
   We want a place with good schools, good creches, afterschool activities, nice
   place to live, gardens, afford our own house etc etc

   We dont want to commute, large cities or violence.
   ...
   Thanks 
   Mary Jane Sneyd
   Dunedin
   New Zealand

============================

I would recommend the medium sized cities of the western US.
The primary restriction is, I believe, finding jobs in technical
fields; cities with universities would probably suffice.

A few examples (not based on any "survey" that I know of):

	Boise, Idaho	--mountains, good school
	Durango, Colorado   --mountains, skiing, college town
	Eugene, Oregon   --moderate climate, good school
	Albuquerque (?), New Mexico  --warmer, mountains/desert
	Sante Fe (area), New Mexico  --jobs at "the Labs", beautiful
	Tucson, Arizona  --warm (to hot), the no-snow option
		

I can't recommend my own home -- Salt Lake City, Utah.
The schools are adsurdly overcrowded and under funded,
and it is probably the only state in the US that is
culturally and politically dominated by a religion.

My wife and I like it here--the variable climate, the 
proximity to mountains and desert--but we're are still
making plans to leave because we do not want to raise
our two kids here. (I'm speaking from experience; I was
raised here.)

Good luck.


jeff

feitctaj
Xref: sparky misc.kids:25850 sci.med:19035