HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: david@cats.ucsc.edu (David Wright)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Tippett murder and Oswald revolver
Date: 29 Jul 92 20:33:17 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: mingong-ws-4.ucsc.edu


In article <schuck.712359126@sfu.ca> Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes:
|CONEGA@APPSTATE.EDU (Greg Cone) writes:
|
|>I have read a lot about the analysis done to associate the bullet(s)
|>found in the presidential limo to Oswald's M-C rifle, but what, if any,
|>analysis was done to link bullets found in or around Tippett's body to
|>Oswald's revolver (the one he was in possesion of when arrested in the
|>movie theater)?
|
|The bullets in Tippits body could not be linked to Oswalds revolver.

I think the best place for this, the best perspective, is given by Mark Lane's
new book, Plausible denial. I think Crossfire has all the witnesses too.

The info sums up to this. The bullets in Tippett's body cannot match to
Oswald's revolver, since the slugs were a bit to small and thus could not be
positively identified.

The shells had a firing pin mark that appears to only have come from Oswald's
revolver, although I have heard a poster disagree with such identification
proceedures. 

There are some interesting anomolies. First, the slugs in the body do not match
the type of shells found, although there could be missing shells or misfired
shots. The shells were found scatterd about, which is uncharcteristic of
reloading a revolver. Further, the first police reports did indicate that the
shells were from an automatic.

The phyisical testimony is of course suspect, like all the phyisical evidence
in this case. The shells, the crucial piece of evidence, could not be
identified by the person who supposedly marked them. There were discrepencies
in the number of shells found at the time, and it took, I think a week or so
for the Dallas police to suddenly find another shell. At any rate, you can read
the particulars, but the fact is that the chain of possesion is lost, so we
have to rely on eyewitness testimony.

For that, there are a number of witnesses. The one the Warren Report relies on
was led into identifying Oswald, at first saying that in fact she did not
recognize him. Her story is also incredible on other grounds. Two reliable
witnesses, i.e., whose stories are not conflicting, found by Lane tell of two
men firing at Tippett, and neither having Oswald's I.D. Interestingly, When
Lane told the WC of these witnesses, the FBI promptly told it's agents 
*not* to interview them. 
-- 
   |^^^^^^|      _______________________________________________________
   |      |      |"There is nothing in the marginal conditions that    | 
   |      |      | distinguish a mountain from a mole hill"            |
   | (o)(o)      O         Kenneth Boulding                            | 
   @      _)    o|_____________________________________________________|  
    |  ____\ o o
    |     /   
   /     \                              All comments  are mine---(David Wright) 
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy.jfk:2609 sci.skeptic:13028 alt.conspiracy:9292
From: jmk@cbnews.cb.att.com (joseph.m.knapp)
Subject: Re: The Mary Eno Pinchot Meyer story (relations with JFK + Timmy Leary)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 12:23:35 GMT

crathbun@nmsu.edu (Chriss Rathbun) writes:
>                                                     he withdrew his
>consent for air support. result=slaughter of all actively opposed to
>castro's cuba and 1/2 of the cia.

He had made it eminently clear that US forces would NOT take an active role.
The CIA fantasy was that Cubans would rise up and join the rebellion. When
that failed, hotter heads wanted to use the occasion to launch a full scale
US involvement. Sorry. Did JFK make a mistake in believing the CIA? Yes.

>                                maybe i missed it but i don't see,
>"remove those missiles now! or else!" as give and take negotiation...

The deal was we remove missiles from Turkey and promise not to invade Cuba
in the future. They get the missiles out of Cuba. Tit for tat.

---
Joe Knapp    jmk@cbvox.att.com
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy.jfk:2625 alt.conspiracy:9312 sci.skeptic:13065
From: N020BA@tamvm1.tamu.edu
Subject: Many films Make a 3-D scene?
Organization: Texas A&M University
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 04:39:24 GMT

    Since there are two known movies of the JFK assassination, why can't
someone reconstruct a 3-D picture of the event(s)? I understand that two
different (in most cases) pictures of something can be made into a 3-D
picture.
========================================================================
If forced to choose between truth and beauty, choose truth.
Truth may hurt, but lies will harm.
He goes too far right ends up in left field.
Reply to N020BA@tamvm1.tamu.edu. My opinions are mine and mine alone.
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy.jfk:2618 alt.conspiracy:9305 sci.skeptic:13044
From: dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,guns.rec
Subject: Re: The Other Rifles on the Scene (JFK)
Date: 22 Jul 92 08:25:51 GMT
Organization: Electrical and Electronic Eng., University of Adelaide

In article <21JUL199216245904@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> scdorcy@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES DORCEY) writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.071429.556@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU>,
>dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott) writes...
>>
>>As well as the MC rifle found in the TSDB, there was a Mauser found inside and
>>an yet another rifle found on the roof of the building?
>>
>>Does any one know the "official" explanation of these other rifles?
>
>To my knowledge, there is no "official" explanation of other rifles
>because "officially" didn't exist.  The "official" line is that the M-C was
>initially misidentified as a Mauser - there was only one rifle found in the
>TSBD --> the M-C.  No explaination of a rifle on the top of the TSBD
>(actually, I was unaware of a contention that there was a rifle found on the
>roof of the TSBD.  Someone shooting from behind the Hertz sign?)

Yes. If I remember rightly, in Jim Garrison's book he says there was some
news footage showing a policeman recovering a rifle from the roof.
Now the M-C and the "Mauser" both had sights, but the one on the roof
had NO SIGHTS. So there can be no excuses about misidentification here.

Does anyone know what the "official" explanation of the roof rifle was?

>
>Officially, one rifle on scene, sixth floor TSBD, M-C, Oswald as trigger-
>man (per WCR).  WCR states M-C initially mis-identified as a Mauser, which
>led to speculation of a Mauser on scene.
>
>I still find the mis-identification thing far-fetched.  It would be kind of
>like mistaking my bolt-action .22LR Marlin for my custom, bolt-action .300
>Winchester Magnum or vice-versa.
>
>JD
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Saturday, 25 Jul 1992 04:23:58 CDT
From: <U54778@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Bullet Velocities

In article <24JUL199216245284@zeus.tamu.edu>, mst4298@zeus.tamu.edu (Mitchell S
Todd) says:
>>In fact, the Connally thigh wound is what you would expect if a bullet
>>fragment embedded itself in his thigh, not a complete bullet with
>>enough energy left to devestate his thigh.
>
>        So, where is the fragment? the fragment found by Dr Shires
>        is far too small to have caused the 1cm wound, and no
>        fragment was found on the stretcher, or in Connelly's clothes.
>        Further, no appropriately sized fragment was found in the
>        limo that is consistent with Connelly's wound.

I do not know with first hand experience how big a 1cm wound is.
(having been born too early to think in metric terms) but there is a famous
photo in chief Curry's book on his investigation which shows a fragment
identified as coming from Connally's wounds.  From matching it with other
objects in the picture, I would judge it to be larger than a hearing aid
battery and smaller than a dime.  This photogaph is usually linked in the
assassination literature with the famous letter to, I believe, Robert Tatro
from Nurse Bell, Parkland Hospital, who draws a picture of the sizes and
number of fragments.  One of her fragments matches the picture in shape and
size.  Is this the fragment from the leg?  I haven't read of anyone pinning
down which fragment was which.  The usual point to this exercise is to
try to show that more than enough lead was excised from the victims to
exclude CE399.  But if you're looking for a possible candidate for
the fragment that you speak of, this one might be it.
ALAN ROGERS
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy.jfk:2701 alt.smouldering.dog.zone:19
From: bdb@becker.GTS.ORG (Bruce Becker)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.smouldering.dog.zone
Subject: Re: The Mary Eno Pinchot Meyer story (relations with JFK + Timmy Leary)
Date: 27 Jul 92 09:30:53 GMT
Organization: G. T. S., Toronto, Ontario

In article <1992Jul20.173751.21702@cbnews.cb.att.com> jmk@cbnews.cb.att.com (joseph.m.knapp) writes:
|
|One of Leary's "theories" is that LSD was invented by DNA when the atomic
|age presented a grave threat to the integrity of DNA: radiation. LSD was
|to counter that threat by providing the necessary enlightenment to prevent 
|nuclear holocaust. Maybe the JFK assassination was a similar response
|by the military-industrial complex's immune system?


	it's also possible that atomics were invented
	by DNA as a means to overcome the grave imbalance
	of human population explosion, or perhaps to
	accelerate mutation in order to go on to another
	phase more rapidly


	altho it's fashionable to portray jfk as some
	sort of basically right-thinking dude who could
	be saved by lsd etc., it must be mentioned that
	he lusted deeply for power within an inhuman and
	corrupt system  - it seems unlikely that he was
	any less dehumanised than anyone else who has
	needed to be a "national leader"...


-- 
  ,u,	 Bruce Becker			Toronto, Ontario
a /i/	 Internet: bdb@becker.gts.org	Uucp: ...!web!becker!bdb
 `\o\-e	 -=[ ]=-=[ ]=-=[ ]=-=[ ]=-=[ ]=-=[ ]=-=[ ]=-=[ ]=-=[ ]=-
 _< /_	 "Usenet is never having to say you're sorry" - Handy Andy
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy.jfk:2728 alt.smouldering.dog.zone:23
From: saltzman@crd.ge.com (Bob Saltzman)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.smouldering.dog.zone
Subject: Re: The Mary Eno Pinchot Meyer story (relations with JFK + Timmy Leary)
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:10:10 GMT
Reply-To: saltzman@crd.ge.com
Organization: GE Corporate Research & Development, Schenectady, NY

In article <CRATHBUN.92Jul28185731@dante.nmsu.edu>, crathbun@nmsu.edu (Chriss Rathbun) writes:
>re: kennedy
>actually kennedy was an idiot!
>he was a power crazed, sex fiend(guess he wasn't all bad),
>meglomaniacal fool who brought the world to the brink of nuclear
>anhilation several times with his grandstanding politics designed to
>make him look good regardless of the threat to peace he caused.
> 
yeh, ok, and maybe so, but...
what does that have to do with issues associated with his death
and the subsequent coverup by elements of the federal government?
==============================================================================
Robert B. Saltzman (Bob)            Internet: saltzman@crd.ge.com
Information System Operation        Snailnet: Bldg KW, Room C120, PO Box 8
General Electric Company            AT&Tnet:  518-387-5828(B), 387-6560(FAX),
Corporate Research and Development            370-2222(H)
Schenectady, New York 12301 USA     ICBMnet:  42 50 04 N, 73 54 14 W, Alt 246
AEMT-4 Paramedic/Firefighter        HAMnet:   WB2ARK
==============================================================================
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy.jfk:2586 alt.conspiracy:9246 sci.skeptic:12970
From: dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Subject: The Other Rifles on the Scene (JFK)
Date: 21 Jul 92 07:14:29 GMT
Organization: Electrical and Electronic Eng., University of Adelaide


As well as the MC rifle found in the TSDB, there was a Mauser found inside and
an yet another rifle found on the roof of the building?

Does any one know the "official" explanation of these other rifles?
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: kuch@reed.edu (Jerry Kuch)
Subject: Re: JFK -- a meglomaniacal fool?
Organization: The Morbid Monomaniac's Society
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:13:46 GMT

In article <schuck.712379630@sfu.ca> Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes:
>crathbun@nmsu.edu (Chriss Rathbun) writes:
>
>>re: kennedy
>>actually kennedy was an idiot!
>>he was a power crazed, sex fiend(guess he wasn't all bad),
>>meglomaniacal fool who brought the world to the brink of nuclear
>>anhilation several times with his grandstanding politics designed to
>>make him look good regardless of the threat to peace he caused.
>> 
>
>Maybe so. 
>
>But try and imagine US history over the last 30 years 
>with Soviet IRBM's in Cuba.
>

Or, try to imagine the world trying to live down an early 1960's US/USSR 
War that began when John Kennedy took the advice of most of his military
advisors and began bombing the Hell out of Cuba in response to Khruschev's
actions.

>


-- 
Jerry Kuch (t-gerldk@microsoft.com) | "Sic Gorgianus Allos Subjectatus Nunc."
  "I was wrong to play God.  Life is precious, not a thing to be toyed with.
   Now take out that brain and flush it down the toilet." - Montgomery Burns

Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: lej@pdn.paradyne.com (Leo James)
Subject: Re: write1224
Organization: AT&T Paradyne, Largo, Florida
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 21:49:17 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.100146.1@ccsua.ctstateu.edu> parys@ccsua.ctstateu.edu writes:
>
>Kennedy gets quite a bit of praise for the Cuban Missle crisis, yet
>had he supported the Bay of Pigs invasion the crisis might never have
>happened in the first place.
>
>If a little boy starts a fire and then calls the Fire department.....
>
>                            IS HE A HERO?

Well, what if the president's agenda was for real, meaningful, dialog to
be fostered and begun between ourselves and the Soviets by the mid-60's?
What if he saw Richard Nixon's,  self-gratifying, "Bay of Pigs" invasion
as a deterent to that agenda?  As for his domestic policies, I feel that
he offered  the American people  more than we have  come close to seeing
since 12:30 p.m., November 22nd, 1963.   So,  you ask,  "was he a hero?"
Yeah, I really believe that he was.
--
+---------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+
|Leopold E. James     | "A heart, a soul, AND | AT&T Paradyne         |
|ph: (813) 530-8425   |  a mind are terrible  | P.O. Box 2826, LG-132,|
|lej@pdn.paradyne.com |  things to waste."    | Largo, FL 34649 (USA) |
From: saltzman@crd.ge.com (Bob Saltzman)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Back to the Past
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:07:11 GMT
Reply-To: saltzman@crd.ge.com
Organization: GE Corporate Research & Development, Schenectady, NY

In article <1992Jul29.005840.15216@lester.appstate.edu>, CONEGA@APPSTATE.EDU (Greg Cone) writes:
>I would like to invite the readers of a.c.jfk to take part in a little
>imaginary journey back in time.  You suddenly find yourself transported
>(never mind how) to Dealy Plaza, Dallas, Texas.  Its late in the morning,
>around 11:30 AM, as you gaze out at the gathering crowd awaiting the
>presidential motorcade.  With what you know, or at least think you know,
>about the events that transpired that day, what would you do?
>(no, I'm not fishing for ideas for a book or movie script)

Your hypothetical "back to the past" question brings to mind a
vague remembrance of a film that I believe that I saw on television
some time ago that developed this very scenerio.  A young man
found himself transported back to November 22, 1963, with knowledge
of the events that were about to transpire and was challenged with
the dilema about whether he should change history.  Interestingly
that question was as I recall the central theme, not what would
have happened had he figured a way to change it.  My recollection
is that he screen-writers opted for the protagonist to not interfere!

I know that I didn't answer your question.  I am not sure that I could.

Bob Saltzman
Committee to Investigate Assassinations
==============================================================================
Robert B. Saltzman (Bob)            Internet: saltzman@crd.ge.com
Information System Operation        Snailnet: Bldg KW, Room C120, PO Box 8
General Electric Company            AT&Tnet:  518-387-5828(B), 387-6560(FAX),
Corporate Research and Development            370-2222(H)
Schenectady, New York 12301 USA     ICBMnet:  42 50 04 N, 73 54 14 W, Alt 246
AEMT-4 Paramedic/Firefighter        HAMnet:   WB2ARK
==============================================================================
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Friday, 24 Jul 1992 18:55:43 EDT
From: <32GCHRG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Clay Shaw

Is Shaw still alive...if so coulnd't he be arrested for
lying in his trial?  Pictures show that he knew David Ferrie,
yet he claimed that he newver met him.

                    Derek
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: scdorcy@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES DORCEY)
Subject: Re: Oswald's Photograph
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 23 Jul 1992 11:43 EST  

In article <22JUL199214450858@rigel.tamu.edu>, mst4298@rigel.tamu.edu 
(Mitchell S Todd) writes...

>	Funny. I was generally under the impression that *all* bullets
>	were designed so that they would not scrape off while travelling	
>	down a steel barrel. Sarcasm aside, who would make a bullet
>	that left pieces of metal in the barrel?

Pieces, no.  However, all bullets that I am aware of leave metal deposits 
on the inside of the barrel (haven't bought one of those neat electrical 
devices for electrolytic removal of copper deposits yet).

>	Actually, even hunting bullets are jacketed. In the case of a
>	soft-nose, the jacket extends from the base to just a few
>	millimeters behind the head, exposing the core at the tip of the
>	bullet. A hollow point is fully jacketed, save for a small hole
>	in the very tip of the bullet. Unjacketed ammunition is quite
>	rare, and I've never fired any, nor can I find anyone who has.

The reason for this jacketing, other than to reduce the amount of lead 
deposits in the barrel, is to control the expansion of a soft-nosed or 
hollow-point bullet upon impact and to leave the bullet fairly intact (I 
hate lead fragments in my venison :-) ).  As for unjacketed ammunition, I 
know of several individuals who cast their own _rifle_ bullets.  They 
aren't the most accurate reloaded rounds in the world, but they do some 
wicked things on impact.  (Side note - unjacketed pistol ammunition is 
commonplace, particularly for revolver rounds)

JD
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: Question (J.F.K. brain wound)
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 04:26:23 GMT

mst4298@zeus.tamu.edu (Mitchell S Todd) writes:

>In article <schuck.711992007@sfu.ca>, Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes...
>>priotti@torino.maraut.it (Enrico Priotti) writes:

>>>In Oliver Stone's "J.F.K." movie is clearly described the President's autopsy.
>>>There it is said that half of his brain was taken away by the fatal bullet.
>>>Is it credible? Is there anyone who has sure information about this?

>>There are many conflicting reports about the damage to the President's
>>brain.

>>The Neurologist who examined JFK while he was in Trauma Room 1 at
>>Parkland Hospital said the Occipital lobe and part of the Parietal Lobe
>>on the right side were destroyed.

>>The attendant at Bethesda, whose job it was to remove the brain, said
>>there was almost nothing left.

>>The autospy pictures that have been published show almost no damage to
>>the brain.

>	A drawing made by the HSCA of an autopsy photo shows that
>	most of the right cerebral hemisphere is missing.

A drawing? Are sketches of pictures considered adequate substitutes
for the actual pictures? What a joke.

>       Dr Lattimer,	
>	who has seen the autopsy photos estimates that 70% of the
>	right cer. hem. is has been blown away. The drawing shows
>	that the wound extends from the occipital lobe to the
>	frontal lobe.

Thats nice of you to admit. Now explain how a bullet that supposedly
entered above the occipital lobe, and would have missed it completely
[if you believe the HSCA] managed to destroy only the occipital lobe
and part of the parietal, which is Dr Kemp Clarks testimony.

> Because of the shape and size of the wound, 
>	it is easy to see why Dr Clark didn't describe damage to
>	the frontal lobe, and why Paul O'Connor would say that
>	he thought there was little left.
>	

How can you say, with no evidence at all, that a very experience
neurologist would miss damage to the frontal lobe of the brain and
describe a wound only in the right rear of the head?

>>There are no definitive answers about the damage to the brain because
>>it was never sectioned. 

>	Sectioning woudn't be very valuable at all for describing
>	the amount of missing matter.

If the sections were fixed and photographed they would be perfect for
describing all the damage to the brain.

> The autopsy photos are the
>	most important information, short of having the
>	whole brain.

The autopsy photos published in various books are obvious fakes
because they completely miss the damage to the right rear of the head
so well described by Kemp Clark and most of the medical staff at
Parkland.


Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy.jfk:2634 sci.skeptic:13100 alt.conspiracy:9330
From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: Oswald's Request for a Laywer (JFK)
Reply-To: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:11:16 GMT

If you don't mind, please keep the JFK stuff out of sci.skeptic.

--
Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  They collapsed....
Rosemount Inc.                                |like nuns in the street...
                                              |they had no teen appeal!
grante@aquarius.rosemount.com                 |
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: How many stairwells in the TSDB? (JFK)
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:14:22 GMT

ajs9462@zeus.tamu.edu (SIMON, ANTHONY JOE) writes:

>Actually, I'm not sure that I understand your scenario. The stairs are
>diagonally across the building from Oswald's sniper position, so there is no
>retracing of steps. He drops the gun off as he makes his way to the stairs.

'drops the gun off' makes it sound as if the rifle was in plain sight.

The evidence shows that it was among a stack of boxes that were
difficult to get to and probably was covered by boxes as well.

It is very likely that the sniper didn't have enough time to hide the
gun and make to the 2nd floor lunchroom before Baker and Truly.

That makes Oswalds statement that he came up a different staircase
[the one that only went up to the 2nd floor] and entered the lunchroom
much more likely.


Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk