HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rich@Rice.edu (& Murphey)
Subject: Re: 386BSD - novice questions - hardware requirements
Reply-To: Rich@rice.edu
Organization: Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, Rice
	University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 03:57:21 GMT

>>>>> In article <1992Dec16.194117.26101@netcom.com>, messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk) writes:
Tony> I've read all the articles back that I could retrieve, but I only
Tony> found an attempt to create a faq, so I decided to ask a few novice
Tony> questions here.  I have an unopened 386BSD compact disc with GNU
Tony> Software distribution, X, a.s.o.  I realize that installation notes
Tony> are on the disc, but I haven't purchased the machine for it yet and do
Tony> not have the compact disc drive.  Without it, I am not sure what
Tony> hardware to purchase...  If any of the more experienced 386BSD users
Tony> could answer the questions below, I would appreciate it:

Tony> 1. I am planning to purchase 340 MB drive and split it in half between
Tony>    OS/2 and 386BSD.  Will it be enough?  How much space does it
Tony>    require?  Can it be installed on the same drive as OS/2?
Tony> 2. Is Adaptec 1542B supported?

Yes, the 0.1 release supports the Adaptec 1542B.

Tony> 3. Is 16 MB of memory sufficient to run X comfortably?

Yes, 16Mb is plenty for X.  The only time I've seen significant
swapping with 16Mb is when running X, several emacs and compiliing
large C++ source files at the same time.

Tony> 4. Does it support dumb/intelligent serial terminal multiport cards?

Chris Demetriou's com driver does.

Tony> 5. I would like to buy Diamond SpeedStar 24X with the WD chipset.  Is
Tony>    this card supported?

It's a long story actually....

Xfree86 does not support any Diamond card designed after the Diamond
Speedstar+. This is due Diamond's unusual policy (among SVGA
vendors) of providing all technical details on programming the clock
synthesizer only under a non-disclosure agreement.  Since XFree86 is
distributed in source form we can't agree to non-disclosure.  All
attempts to work this out have been rejected by Diamond, so we are
no longer trying to get information from them, nor will we accept
code contributions to support their boards, as long as these
policies remain.  Actix and Orchid have been very active in making
sure that we have all the information we need.  So there is no
reason to bother with Diamond, for a chipset that no one else is
using, with anti-freeware policies.
  

Tony> 6. I know EISA would be preferrable, but I can't afford it.  Is there
Tony>    any point in even bothering with ISA bus?  Will it be very slow?
Tony> 7. Of the three (for those who use them all or two of them) - which
Tony>    one seems most stable: Coherent/Linux/386BSD?
Tony> Thanks,
Tony> Tony

Rich
Xref: sparky comp.unix.bsd:10466 comp.sys.3b1:4093
From: ptd2@po.CWRU.Edu (Palmer T. Davis)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd,comp.sys.3b1
Subject: Re: Need help with AT&T UNIX PC and DOS
Date: 20 Dec 1992 07:49:41 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ptd2@po.CWRU.Edu (Palmer T. Davis)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu
Followups-To: comp.sys.3b1


In a previous article, tsai@evax12.eng.fsu.edu () says:
>
>     We have several AT&T UNIX PCs (PC7300) in our lab.  They have been
>rarely used.  Recently, the chairperson wants them to run DOS and DOS
>applications such as MATLAB.  Is anyone familier with the way to make it
>work ?  Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.

(First of all, comp.unix.bsd is the wrong group for this question;
it really belongs in comp.sys.3b1, to which I'm redirecting followups.)

The 7300 and 3b1 are based on the 68010, not the 8086 family.  There
is a coprocessor board that was available (called DOS-73); if you don't
have this board installed, you simply can't run DOS at all.  With the
coprocessor board installed, the machine works more or less like a
512K IBM XT with a monochrome display adapter, but DOS software has to
be reasonably well-behaved to work.  (And you can simultaneously run
UNIX software in other windows, a feature notably lacking on most XT
clones....)

-- PTD --

-- 
Palmer T. Davis      ___
<ptd2@po.cwru.edu>   \X/   cthread.  cthread_fork().  Fork, thread, fork!
Xref: sparky comp.unix.bsd:10135 comp.os.linux:20071
From: ericy@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Eric Youngdale)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: 386BSD + LINIX + GNU + X11R5 on CDROM - let us know what you want!
Date: 12 Dec 1992 16:56:16 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In article <1992Dec11.225241.1941@nb.rockwell.com> wade@nb.rockwell.com (Wade Guthrie) writes:
>> >Perhaps using the rockridge extensions would be a better Idea than a 
>> >non-standard program hacked up just for this CD.. I believe that the
>> >Linux CD-ROM driver already handles them and it would be likely that
>> >the 386BSD driver would eventually support it as well... if it doesn't
>> >already... 
>
>The Linux cd-rom drivers may support this already, but if you don't already
>HAVE Linux up and running on your system, the point is moot.  I would not
>like to see the Rockridge extensions, 'cause then I wouldn't be able to 
>load Linux from the CD on a system that currently has only DOS.

	I am sorry, but this is totally incorrect.  Rock Ridge is an extension
to ISO9660.  This means that it is still a valid ISO9660 disc that can be read
on any DOS system.  This is because there are actually two filenames for every
file on a Rock Ridge disk - an ISO9660 8.3 name and the Rock Ridge name.  DOS
will use the 8.3 name, as will any other system that does not use the Rock
Ridge extensions.  Linux, SunOS and any other system that do understand Rock
Ridge will use the Rock Ridge name.  The linux filesystem even has an option
that lets you tell it to ignore the Rock Ridge extensions, and if you use this
you get the 8.3 names.

	I think it would be a serious mistake to make a 386bsd/linux disk
without Rock Ridge.

-Eric
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd,alt.suit.att-bsdi
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: AT&T/USL CD-ROM Review Process
Organization: The World
	<1992Dec13.183240.23944@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>
	<1992Dec14.165913.6896@fcom.cc.utah.edu>
	<1992Dec15.033540.483@cheops.qld.tne.oz.au>
	<9212152245.31@rmkhome.UUCP>
	<wilko.724689346@spoetnix.idca.tds.philips.nl>
	<BzJ9Cn.8IB@zoo.toronto.edu>
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 05:39:21 GMT


From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
>Nope.  I've seen source distributions you've never even heard of :-), and
>I still write redistributable software.
>
>There are a couple of touchy areas -- notably the kernel -- where, if I
>were writing such a thing for redistribution, I'd probably deliberately
>use a very different basic approach than the one used in code I've seen.
>If you end up producing something very similar to proprietary code, it's
>best to be able to document the process by which you arrived at it without
>making use of forbidden knowledge.  That can get tricky; it's easier to
>avoid the similarities in the first place.

That's all very rational Henry, but it's not at all clear that we're
dealing with rationality here, there are lawyers involved!

The problem is whether some software product employer out there is
going to start asking prospective hires whether or not they have seen
internals, and if so avoid hiring that person "just to avoid trouble
down the road." You may not even hear the reason to argue the point,
"Thank you for your interest...".

Worse, I don't know that it's illegal for AT&T to make available to
employers a list of names of people who they believe have had more
than passing acquaintance with Unix kernel sources. Such a list could
be generated from various sources (like comp.unix.wizards archives.)

Insane? So was Joe McCarthy, and look at all the trouble that
mentality caused (P.S. Alger Hiss was just cleared by the KGB as never
having done any spying for the Soviet Union, he's now in his 80's and
his name is almost synonymous among a lot of people with "commie spy",
very sad, wonder if Richard Nixon, the prosecuting attorney, is going
to apologize or even acknowledge this?)

This is bad voodoo.

What's worse is that AT&T/USL just have nothing to say about it all,
so we are free to assume the worst, it's the only safe option at this
point. These guys want some sort of monopoly back, and that's that.


-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd
From: dhess@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Drew William Hess)
Subject: [386bsd] gcc 2.3.2 compile problems
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date: 20 Dec 92 00:43:03 GMT

I'm having problems getting gcc 2.3.2 to compile under 386bsd.  It's choking
on enquire.c, line 2303, and complaining about a floating point constant
being out of range.  Can someone please post or email me a fix?  Thanks.

-dwh-
dhess@cs.stanford.edu

Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd
From: levinson@halcyon.com (Don Levinson)
Subject: [386bsd] Kernel build dies, unref symbol _version
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Distribution: comp.unix.bsd
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 17:07:35 GMT

I am trying to build a new kernel using the code in the src01 distribution
the only change was that I added the files for the DEPCA driver
I have not added the patchkit or anything else. after executing
config, make depend, I execute make and all goes well until it says
"loading 386bsd"
"init_main.o: something about an unreferenced symbol _version"
is there a standard fix for this?

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Don Levinson	  levinson@halcyon.com	| 	Fatigue Technology Inc.
 "Stupid answers for stupid questions"	| 	100 Andover Park West
    ph:206-246-2010 fax:206-244-9886	| 	Seattle, WA 98188
From: jpt@uh.msc.edu (Joseph Thomas)
Subject: Re: 386BSD: Problem in wd.c (?) - fixed (config is broken)
Organization: Minnesota Supercomputer Center, Minneapolis, MN
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 05:11:45 GMT


	Well - the problem is partially solved. Turns out that config writes
the wrong thing to ioconf.c. I now have 2 controller (both MFM) with two
drives on the first and one drive on the second. [I'm need to make a data
cable long enough to reach the 2nd/4th drive. The driver will send commands
to access the disk but obviously no data transfer can occur - thus access
hangs. [ie. dd hits the drive but never really reads anything]]

	My config file [relevent part] looks like:

	controller	isa0
	controller	wdc0	at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 vector wdintr
	disk		wd0	at wdc0 drive 0
	disk		wd1	at wdc0 drive 1
	controller	fdc0	at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr
	disk		fd0	at fdc0 drive 0
	disk		fd1	at fdc1 drive 1
	controller	wdc1	at isa? port "IO_WD2" bio irq 15 vector wdintr
	disk		wd2	at wdc1 drive 0
	disk		wd3	at wdc1 drive 1

(NOTE: I changed the 'controller wd?' to 'controller wdc?' to make things
less confusing.)

	Congif generates a ioconf.c which contains the following for bio
(block I/O) devices:


struct isa_device isa_devtab_bio[] = {
/* driver	iobase   irq   drq	maddr,	    msize, intr,   unit */
{ &wdcdriver,	IO_WD1,	IRQ14,	-1,	C 0x00000,	0, V(wdc0), 0},
{ &fdcdriver,	IO_FD1,	 IRQ6,	 2,	C 0x00000,	0, V(fdc0), 0},
{ &wdcdriver,	IO_WD2,	IRQ15,	-1,	C 0x00000,	0, V(wdc1), 1},
0
};

Note that the unit number for the wdc1 is 1!!! This causes wd.c to fill
the internal disk struct for drive 1 (wd1 on wdc0) with the information 
about wdc1. Very wrong!!! What i seems to be doing is generating an entry
for each controller name and NOT for each drive name. Changing ioconf.c
to the below fixes all (including the problem of not knowing the size
of the swap partition.)

struct isa_device isa_devtab_bio[] = {
/* driver	iobase   irq   drq	maddr,	    msize, intr,   unit */
{ &wdcdriver,	IO_WD1,	IRQ14,	-1,	C 0x00000,	0, V(wdc0), 0},
{ &wdcdriver,	IO_WD1,	IRQ14,	-1,	C 0x00000,	0, V(wdc0), 1},
{ &fdcdriver,	IO_FD1,	 IRQ6,	 2,	C 0x00000,	0, V(fdc0), 0},
{ &wdcdriver,	IO_WD2,	IRQ15,	-1,	C 0x00000,	0, V(wdc1), 2},
{ &wdcdriver,	IO_WD2,	IRQ15,	-1,	C 0x00000,	0, V(wdc1), 3},
0
};


Looks like I need to delve into config. Oh well Thanks to those people who
replyed.
From: blymn@awadi.com.au (Brett Lymn)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Re: 386BSD SLIP support
Date: 9 Dec 92 16:55:17
Organization: AWA Defence Industries
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: coolibah.awadi.com.au
In-reply-to: fn@waldorf.informatik.uni-dortmund.de's message of 2 Dec 1992 12:08:44 GMT

>>>>> On 2 Dec 1992 12:08:44 GMT, fn@waldorf.informatik.uni-dortmund.de (Frank Nobis) said:
F> NNTP-Posting-Host: waldorf

F> In article <3863@news.cerf.net>, lewis@nic.cerf.net (Lewis Jr. High) writes:
F> |> I know that 386BSD supports SLIP, but is there any way to command the
F> |> modem to dial a terminal server and log in with a username and password to
F> |> get the SLIP session started?
F> |> 
F> |> Jeff

F> I use tip to dial the modem and to log in an annexbox. At the annexcli I enter
F> 'slip' and the annex switches to SLIP. I suspend tip with '~^Z' and give the
F> slattach command. To disconnect I kill both tip and slattach. 

Even better yet, if you use kermit you can quit kermit without the
modem hanging up and you then just run slattach.  To disconnect kill
slip and run kermit again to hangup the modem (or do it manually).  I
made a short script that does the slattach and adding of routes, makes
life much easier.


--
Brett Lymn
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd
From: terry@cs.weber.edu (A Wizard of Earth C)
Subject: Re: Linux boots on Tandon but 386BSD doesn't 
Keywords: Hardware, Tandon, Architecture, install, boot
Organization: Weber State University  (Ogden, UT)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 21:44:18 GMT

In article <dosburn.724623556@cwis> dosburn@cwis.unomaha.edu (Don Osburn) writes:
>Since I was having no luck with the 386BSD boot, I decided to switch
>over and try the Linux boot for kicks.  It worked right off.
>
>Can anyone tell me why the Linux system will boot on my hardware, 
>but the BSD won't?  Does anyone think there is any value to be 
>gained by porting the BSD to a Tandon? (Other than my own educational
>value.)  If so, please let me know, else I may switch over to the Linux
>project.  :-|  Thanks in advance.

If this is the "it just sits there looking dumb" problem, there's a NOP in
the wd boot code that dorks a register.  Use one of the Compaq disk
images.  These are available from the machine "rachel", the address of
which is in the FAQ.

If this is the "it puts flashing colored characters on my screen", you need
a kernel with patch #2 from the patchkit.  Use one of the "starlan" disk
images from agate under unofficial/terry/...

If this is the "it can't find my disklabel", you need to either use the
entire drive for 386BSD, or set the geometry to match the physical drive
settings (utilities on agate) because you are probably suffering IDE drive
translation syndrome (contagious to some SCSI/ESDI drives).

If this is the "it boots OK when I hold down my shift key", you need about
3 patches from the patchkit.  Or just get the kernel off "of rachel".

If you don't have a standard WD drive IDE drive, ESDI drive (all of which
look like MFM controllers to the drivers), and it's not an Adaptek 1542B
or 1540B (1542B without floppy) you are out of luck... unless you get
Julian's SCSI drivers, which support the 1740/2B, Bustek, and one more
recent SCSI controller.

Most boot problems for which there are patches have kernels living on rachel.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@icarus.weber.edu
					terry_lambert@novell.com
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        "I have an 8 user poetic license" - me
 Get the 386bsd FAQ from agate.berkeley.edu:/pub/386BSD/386bsd-0.1/unofficial
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd,comp.os.linux
From: rich@Rice.edu (& Murphey)
Subject: Re: [386bsd] ftpd bugfix
Reply-To: Rich@rice.edu
Organization: Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, Rice
	University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 05:19:03 GMT

>>>>> In article <9212172115.aa05898@broccoli.robobar.co.uk>, gtoal@robobar.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:

Graham> Thanks to pauls@umich, we now know the reason for occassional problems
Graham> with the new ftp server that allows you to fetch whole directories as
Graham> .tar files.  What happens is that if the tar finds an unreadable file,
Graham> it skips it and outputs an error message to the 'screen' - unfortunately
Graham> because of the way the job is piped into ftp this ends up in the tar
Graham> file which then fails to unpack properly.

Graham> The interim solution is to make sure all your files are permitted!
Graham> The long-term solution is to fix the ftpd code so that error messages
Graham> are directed somewhere else, and if possible reported to the ftp client.

Graham> Graham

Thanks very much for tracking this down!

The following patch fixes the bug Graham describes.  We still need to
add error reporting, but this will help meanwhile.  Any comments on
that are welcome!

I'll update the sources and binaries on ref.tfs.com (140.145.254.251)
in /usr/packages/ftpd-*.tar.Z and post another followup. Rich


diff -c -r1.1 popen.c
*** /tmp/,RCSt1012643	Thu Dec 17 23:05:46 1992
--- popen.c	Thu Dec 17 23:05:02 1992
***************
*** 108,114 ****
  		if (*type == 'r') {
  			if (pdes[1] != 1) {
  				dup2(pdes[1], 1);
! 				dup2(pdes[1], 2);	/* stderr, too! */
  				(void)close(pdes[1]);
  			}
  			(void)close(pdes[0]);
--- 108,114 ----
  		if (*type == 'r') {
  			if (pdes[1] != 1) {
  				dup2(pdes[1], 1);
! 				/* dup2(pdes[1], 2);	/* stderr, too! */
  				(void)close(pdes[1]);
  			}
  			(void)close(pdes[0]);
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd
From: cchase@cs.cornell.edu (Craig Chase)
Subject: [386BSD] partitioning and other things
Summary: reading msdos partition, is QMAGIC defined
Keywords: partition, magic numbers
Organization: Electrical Engineering, Cornell University, Ithaca NY
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 22:14:31 GMT

I have just installed 386bsd on my computer and have a few questions:
(Before I begin, I should mention that this is being posted by a friend of
mine so all personal aspersions should be directed at me (mark) instead of 
craig)

On to the questions...

1) reading msdos partitions:  In the FAQ it mentions a method for reading a 
	msdos partition by altering the devices array in devices.c.  I cannot 
	find this file, should I create it?  If I do, will this method work, 
	and how do I get at the files.  Is there a better way?

2) I am currently running the os/2 2.0 boot manager which allows me to select
	which operating system to boot.  Problem, it will not boot 386bsd for
	me.  Is there another boot manager available that will work with
	dos, os/2 and 386bsd?

3) I am trying to compile an SML compiler (if you never heard of SML, you 
	probably will never need it).  Anyway, the sources require a magic 
	number QMAGIC.  In /usr/include/sys/exec.h there is defined: OMAGIC,
	NMAGIC and ZMAGIC.  Has anyone ever heard of QMAGIC?

4) Does pstat exist for 386bsd?  Any other way to find out available vm?

5) From 386bsd.bugs:  bug BOOT003, should that read 32MB partition instead of 
	30kb?

Answers to any of the above questions would be greatly appreciated.  I 
apolgize if any of these have already been hashed over on the net, I am net 
I am new to this group, and my unix knowledge ain't great.  

Cheers,
mark.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Linderman            |         Cornell University
linder@ee.cornell.edu     | Department of Electrical Engineering
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: gab10@griffincd.amdahl.com (Gary A Browning)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Re: 386BSD install program - where is it?
Date: 16 Dec 92 03:02:43 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation

In article <1992Dec15.144659.14169@wotan.compaq.com>,
hackney@wotan.compaq.com (Greg Hackney) writes:
> Where is the source code located for the 'install' program that's on
> the
> 386BSD dist.fs floppy?

The source for it was never released.

-- 
Gary Browning        | Exhilaration is that feeling you get just after a
		     | great idea hits you, and just before you realize
                     | what is wrong with it.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd,comp.os.linux
From: goer@ellis.uchicago.edu (Richard L. Goerwitz)
Subject: Re: Dumb Americans (was INTERNATIONALIZATION: JAPAN, FAR EAST)
Keywords: Han Kanji Katakana Hirugana ISO10646 Unicode Codepages
Reply-To: goer@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 17:36:47 GMT

terry@cs.weber.edu (A Wizard of Earth C) writes:
>
>If we assume booting to X on a VGA (640x480) as a default, and
>additional setup of the X to support alternate resoloutions, then we can
>cover nearly all written human languages, with exceptions for Arabic,
>Hebrew, and Tamil (and similar languages) which require "connection rules"
>to be drawn (not supported in X) or have differing drawing direction (for
>which there is only primitive support).

Drawing direction is a major minus.  Arabic, Aramaic, Hebrew, Persian, 
Ethiopic, etc. all go the "wrong" way.  That is, they are written from
right to left.  Ethiopic doesn't require ligatures, but the others do.
It's really a shame that X doesn't handle these scripts, since a sig-
nificant portion of the world's population uses the Arabic alphabet.

One poster suggested that a basic familiarity with a few scripts would
suffice for US engineers, i.e. make them able to code "multinationally."
This is true in one sense.  But there's hardly any way they can get this
education.  Where can they go, typically, to find training in how to
wordwrap text composed of both Arabic and English.  Language mixing is
quite common these days, and there are some very specific conventions
that are followed when wrapping mixed right-left and left-right lang-
uages.  I happen to know what they are.  I wonder, though, if there is
a single US-born engineer online here who knows.  My guess is that there
isn't.  I'd even guess that many of they people who think their engineer-
ing multilingual text objects and interfaces don't know.

This isn't mean to be a gripe, incidentally.  I just want to point out
our great cultural isolation, and note that, with this kind of disad-
vantage, can we realistically expect to design systems for the world as
a whole?

-- 

   -Richard L. Goerwitz              goer%midway@uchicago.bitnet
   goer@midway.uchicago.edu          rutgers!oddjob!ellis!goer
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd
From: bde@runx.oz.au (Bruce Evans)
Subject: Re: Occasional system hangs
Organization: RUNX Un*x Timeshare.  Sydney, Australia.
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 22:39:32 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.073053.2721@fcom.cc.utah.edu> terry@cs.weber.edu (A Wizard of Earth C) writes:

>RAM isn't a problem; I have run a sufficiently stripped kernel on a 640K
>(no extended or expanded memory!) 386 Box with an NE2K card for periods
>in excess of 4 days with moderate usage (20 Meg swap on a 30 Meg drive
>and /usr remote mounted).  Moderate usage is 3 users curious about it and
>beating on the compiler.  Obviously, no X  8-).

How fast does it run?  I have run a fairly large kernel on a 386 system with
1664K.  It runs OK until it starts swapping.  (Actually it runs dismally
because the disks are slow MFM 2:1 interleave and the system has to go to the
disk for almost everything.)  When it starts swapping, the disk light stays
on all the time and it takes several minutes to run the shell script
'umount -af; sync'.  The shell is bash (definitely too big).  All known
patches related to memory leaks and disk activity are installed.
-- 
Bruce Evans  (bde@runx.oz.au)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd