HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bfoo_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Brian E. Foont)
Subject: Re: ACLU/AJC Menorah Police?
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 01:17:33 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.183142.3687@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:>
>That it's non-Jewish seems incontrovertible, but so is Halloween. If
>Brian wants to get excited, let him find a few crosses in public
>places.
>
>:-)
>
>David

Yes, I think I will "get excited."  You must be kidding, as much as 
Chirstmas trees are non-Jewish, and as you correctly point out actually of
Pagan origin, if anything this is even WORSE.  As to Holloween, "celebrating"
this is just as much a violation of Judaism, and in fact when I was little
(from a non-Orthodox home) both myself and many of my orthodox friends were
forbidden to participate in Holloween activities on the grounds that is
was Non-Jewish, not because it was Christian specifically, but just not
Jewish.

As to crosses in public places, I think that you will find that generally
there are not a lot of them, and yes, I object to those that are there.

Brian E. Foont
bfoo_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu

My opinions are my own, but you may share them.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: ACLU/AJC Menorah Police?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 21:05:11 GMT


I don't know if Norman Miller is aware of it, but there are now
large Menorahs all over Los Angeles--in public parks, shopping
centers, etc.  Most of them have been erected and are lit each
night by Chabad.

I find it a welcome balance to all the Christmas symbols, and see
nothing wrong in such multicultural observances, as long as they
are accessible to all.

I suppose that if the Moslems wanted to put up some symbol to
celebrate Ramadan or some other major seasonal observance,
few would object.

The danger is when the State does it, or when the State starts
picking and choosing among whose symbols are displayed,
or when symbols are used for evangelical, rather than commemorative
purposes. None of those apply to the Los Angeles situation.

David
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: ACLU/AJC Menorah Police?
Date: 21 Dec 92 17:34:03 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <1992Dec21.073102.12213@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:

>At the Beverly Hills Menorah lighting ceremony Sunday night, presided
>over by the Mayor of Beverly Hills, the Vice-Mayor, and a Chabad Rabbi,
>it was stated that the ACLU and the American Jewish Committee went
>to court Sunday morning to stop it (and lost).

>Does anyone know what the h... is going on when the AJC tries to stop
>a menorah lighting?

Lighting a menorah for the celebration of Chanukkah has meaning when
done as a Jewish religious ceremony.  I too object to it being done
as a ceremony participated in by members of the government acting as
such, even (or maybe especially) if they are Jewish.  

If the state, acting as such, can participate in public Jewish 
ceremonies, they can have state-sponsored Christian, Muslim, Hindu,
Baha'i, Parsi, etc. ceremonies, and in fact will be asked to.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: the end
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 20:37:09 GMT
Keywords: good bye; it was fun

Much to the joy of some and to the chagrin of others (hopefully more of
the latter than the former) tomorrow is my last day at this assignment
and, for at least the time being, the end of my access to the net.  As
always, I've enjoyed reading and posting and I wish everyone hatzlacha in
1993 and beyond.

Now, what am I going to do with al this free time......
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jacobw@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jacob Solomon Weinstein)
Subject: Re: Jewish STEREOTYPES - the last time
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 03:15:15 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.020404.3628@unixland.natick.ma.us> sharon@unixland.natick.ma.us (Sharon Machlis Gartenberg) writes:
>META000 <META@UNB.CA> writes:
>
>>Having said that, I have to emphasize, however, that in humour,
>>context is EVERYTHING.  The same joke told by a rabbi, during a
>>sermon, is funny and socially connecting, and when told by a gentile
>>person at a Knights of Columbus meeting, can be divisive and
>>hurtful.
>
>I would add: laughing at your own pain is humor. Laughing at someone
>else's pain is usually closer to cruelty than comedy.
I agree with you, although I cannot resist the urge to quote Mel Brooks: 
"Tragedy is when I cut myself. Comedy is when you walk into an open 
manhole and die."
On a serious note, I've noticed that a certain type of sense of humor
seems most common among African-Americans and Jews. I would describe it
as the ability to see the humor in everything, even things you take very
seriously. Obviously, not all members of those groups have that type of
sense of humor, and not all people with that sense of humor belong to
one of those groups. Nonetheless, I can't help wondering  if a people
who face constant oppression have to develop the ability to laugh at
everything in order to stay sane.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 01:16:09 GMT

cohen@quartz.ciw.edu (Ronald Cohen) writes:
> <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)> writes:
> >cohen@quartz.ciw.edu (Ronald Cohen) writes:

> >What constitutes a Conservative Jew?  
> I guess someone who doesn't accept fundamentalism.
> 
> >Is it that he/she does not
> >accept that the Torah was given by G-d to Moshe at Sinai?  
> Nope.

Well then, what is C?  I had thought that a major distinction -- litmus
test, if you will -- was that O believes in Torah leMoshe miSinai (a
physical or dictational transfer), whereas C believes in Torah min
haShamayim (more like a spiritual inspiration).

> >It's relativley recent
> >that the fight to accept any flavor of "convert" has arisen, thereby
> >changing the status quo.
> 
> This is clear nonsense.  I guess most of the jews in Israel aren't
> real jews according to you.  I wonder if you can prove that you
> are a real jew.  I doubt it from your attitude.

As I have posted in follow-ups, I may have been in error on my
understanding of the LoR's history.  Rabbi Arian has responded to
me on that, and I clarified my statements, which may still be in
error.  I don't think proof has yet been offered to contradict
me.  Of course, no proof has been offered to support me either.

Nevertheless, where did you invent that nonsense that I feel that
most of the Jews in Israel aren't real Jews?  I wish you (and others)
would stop resorting to such ridiculous arguments.  If you disagree
with something I have said, then say so.  If you disagree with
something I *haven't* said, please realize that *I* may disagree
with it as well.  If you feel the need to have me fulfill your
biased stereotypes of the Orthodox, please have the decency to
trap me into them first, then flame me.  Thank you.

I guess I am destined (read "plagued") to have to periodically
remind [see, Jack] people that I feel all Jews are real Jews,
regardless of their adherence (or lack thereof) to normative
Judaism.

-Don Gertler
Date: Sunday, 20 December 1992 11:02:17 MST
X-Mailer: TMail version 1.15R
From: "D. C. Sessions" <dcs@witsend.tnet.com>
Organization: Nobody but me -- really
Subject: Re: Here we go again
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Distribution: world

In <RLK.92Dec20003736@underprize.think.com>, rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)  wrote:
# 
# While I'm still opposed to the idea of clogging mailboxes, I have to
# confess to considerable sympathy for the idea.  Alas, there's no door to
# slam in their faces.

  Hey! maybe there is!

  Would anyone out there be willing to set up scripts to allow a
  broadcast KILL list of known J4Jerks and their threads?  If the
  update could be automated, the moment they're spotted LOTS of
  us will immediately start bouncing their junk back at them.


--- D. C. Sessions                            Speaking for myself ---
--- Note new network address:                dcs@witsend.tnet.com ---
--- Author (and everything else!) of TMail  (DOS mail/news shell) ---
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ah287@yfn.ysu.edu (Murray Kahl)
Subject: Re: I have yet to meet a Jewish murderer.
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:49:29 GMT


Your reading of the biblical passages indicate a primitive understanding at best. I suggest you contact a qualified teacher.
-- 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Re: antisemitism in action
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:27:32 GMT

In article <4598@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
>In article <531@owl.ukc.ac.uk> dat@ukc.ac.uk (D.A.Turner) writes:
>>During the last seven days  12  palestinians  have  been  shot  dead  by
>>Israeli  forces in Gaza and the West Bank.  This includes a ten year old
>>girl, Rana Abu Tyour, shot while she went to get milk in a curfew break.
>>She  bled  to  death  in  an  alley,  while  Israeli  soldiers with guns
>>prevented anyone from going to help her.
>
>A typical anti-Semite propaganda., based on hatered only.

I do not see where the anti-semitic propaganda is. 

>
>>David Turner
>>(A British Jew who does NOT support Israel)
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>"Just a racist may say that just a gentile may be an anti-Semite "
>                                                            M.Y. Self
>

Being a Jew who does not support Israel is not being an anti-semite or a 
racist. 
I resent that quotation. 


AAP
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: WHERE DO THE "palestinians" COME FROM?
Date: 3 Jan 93 11:40:17 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL


(Zeyd M. Ben-Halim) writes:

> Where do the palestinians come from?

From : Egypt , Syria , Afgahnistan, Iran, Magrab ( North Africa),
      Turky, Bosnia , Saudi-Arabia  ....

For more details look at : Britanica (1910) PALESTINE , population .

and at the new very detailed scientific book:

 Prof.  DAVID GROSSMAN:  RURAL PROCESS-PATERN RELATIONSHIPS
        Published by Praeger   March 1992.

The book is based on both: written old sources and an extensive
researches in the area , aspecially in the samaria farms where the big
Egyptian mass population is located.
There are a lot of maps tables and diagrams.
A must for everyone interesting in the topic.

  Shalom     Gideon Ehrlich



Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel)
Subject: Re: Jewish Singers
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 00:24:38 GMT


On a more highbrow note, I just learned the other day that Bizet (the
composer of "Carmen") was Jewish.  The only other highbrown obscure bit of
cultural information I have is that the impressionist painter, Camile
Pissaro, was Jewish.  (And suffered a certain amount of discrimination in
the Paris art world because of it.  He was not welcomed by the other
impressionists.  Incidentally, he was born in the West Indies - Martinique,
if I remember correctly.)

It is rather astonishing how many Jews have been involved in the American
musical theatre.  Aside from the most obvious (Berlin, the Gershwins,
Bernstein, Hammerstein), just offhand I can think of:
Jule Styne
Bob Merrill (actually, I'm not positive about this one)
Martin Charnin
Lee Strouse
Harvey Schmidt
Jerry Herman
Jerry Bock
Sheldon Harnick
John Kander
Cy Coleman
David Shire
Stephen Sondheim


Miriam Nadel

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp)
Subject: Re: Jesus: Would he support the Turks or Armenians?
Organization: LA&W RR
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 18:26:13 GMT

In article <1h4n3oINNf5g@FRIDGE.AI.CS.YALE.EDU> engelson-sean@cs.yale.edu writes:
>
>In article <3092@israel.nysernet.org>, warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) writes:
>|> In <1992Dec17.054957.24748@urartu.sdpa.org> dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian) writes:
>|> 
>|>     The real question should be, if there was a Jesus, where was he during the
>|>     genocide of the Armenians? 
>|> 
>|> 
>|> And what does he think of Mutlu?
>
>And would he like latkes?

What NJB (Nice Jewish Boy) wouldn't?

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller)
Subject: Re: ACLU/AJC Menorah Police?
Organization: AL/HRTI, Brooks AFB
	<1992Dec23.130531.26701@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 13:44:57 GMT

On Wed, 23 Dec 1992 13:05:31 GMT, colten@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (marc.colten) said:

M> Police officials identified the man as David Miller, 44, of suburban
M> Loveland.  He was arrested, charged with disorderly conduct and
M> released.

	[...]

M> Now, what is the public going to remember - that the Klan put the
M> cross up, or (and I'm guessing here) that a Jew tore it down?

	Who said he was Jewish?  Plenty of goys named Miller out there,
I assure you.

-- Cerebus <tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil>
"A murderer...is only an extroverted suicide."
From: pinkas@skywalker.intel.com (Israel Pinkas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Kosher slaughter (was Re: Medicine & the Mall)
Date: 22 Dec 92 01:11:50 GMT
	<1gsrtaINN8db@FRIDGE.AI.CS.YALE.EDU> <62953@mimsy.umd.edu>
Organization: Software Technologies, INTeL Corporation, Santa Clara, CA

tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:

	The problem, as I understand it, is that kosher laws requires the
   animal be conscious when this occurs. Health regulations require that
   no animal fall dead into the blood of a previously slain animal. So
   conscious animals are hung upside by a shackle around one foot, to
   await having their throats cut.

I suggest that you check out a local slaughter-house.  I have visited a
number, and know a number of people that have worked in the business.  I
can assure you that the animals are dead before the are hung by the hoof.

In a typical slaughter-house, the animals are moved into a narrow path.
There is a mechanism at the end that grabs the animal's head and imobilizes
it.  This mechanism also holds the animal after it is dead to prevent it
from falling over.

For non-kosher slaughter, the stun gun is then applied.  In many places,
they check whether the animal is stunned.  If it isn't, they try again.
They then kill the animal by whatever method the state allows.  As soon as
the animal is dead, they raise it by the hoof and dip it in hot water to
loosen the skin before hanging it to bleed.

For kosher meat, the shochet checks the blade before each use.  He then
cuts the animal's throat.  The animal usually stops moving and goes limp
within 10-20 seconds.  They typically wait a minute or so before they
raise the animal by the hoof to drain the blood.

The major difference that I noticed was that for kosher meat they were
pretty sure that the animal was dead before raising it by the hoof.


	The fact that a razor-sharp knife is used hardly guarntees a
   painless death.

But it is the best known method that does not involve drugs.

-Israel
--
Israel Pinkas		pinkas@stps18.intel.com		408-765-4210

	"Everybody's askaird of death, until it hits you ...
	 then you don't care"		-Archie Bunker
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Kahane's philosophy
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 21:19:48 GMT

In article <199212271557.AA21824@das.wang.com> MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni) writes:

# In: <1992Dec27.011755.23978@ennews.eas.asu.edu>
# makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
 
# >In article <3107@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:

# ># In <1992Dec18.012721.23664@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
# >(David Makowsky) writes:

# ># me: If an action was objectionable when Jews were the recipient, it
# ># me: remains objectionable if another ethnic group is, with Jews those
# ># me: doing it.  Since I agree neither to the expulsion/disenfranchisement
# ># me: of Israeli citizens based on their religion/ethnicity, nor to the
# ># me: disbandment of the Jewish State, I prefer other solutions.

# ># > I prefer other solutions also.  Unfortunately, they don't exist.

# To this replied Warren:
 
# ># Were I convinced of this, I would have stayed in the US.

# >	I would like to be convinced of this also.  What are these other
# >solutions?
 
# Is that  the reason that  while Warren posts from  Jerusalem, Makowsky
# posts from America.  A careful person that Makowsky....

	Fine Shimshoni.  Why don't you convince me instead of using this
ad hominem attack?
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: deportation
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 03:45:45 GMT

In article <1i89tjINNahs@crcnis1.unl.edu> fall266@cse.unl.edu () writes:

#  I am surprised to see some people defanding the action of deportation,
# how can you do that?
# What is the homeland? by any defination palastine is not the home land of jews
# of russia etc.. because niether they are born their even their ancestors were
# not born their.

	Well, their ancestors most certainly were born there.  And thge
Russians of Russia made sure the "jews of russia" had no place in
Russia.

# Jews migrated from the opprssion of feroh they were given refuge in palastine.   I tell you now no one will give any refuge to any jew any were because they have no respect for those people who have been protecting them.
# These jews are arrogent, shamless and selfish.

	Your grammer is very similar to the author of a vicously anti
semitic post (of which I still have a copy) directed against me on
labor day 1988 (titled "To the Jew DAVIDM").

	I wonder if you wrote that?  The anti semitic style is also
similar.  So is the fact that in both that article and this the
author's identity has been concealed.  By the way, what is your real
name?

# what about the eight year old girl which was killed by the I.army.

	Her parents should be charged with child abuse for puting her in
that situation.

# Belive me 
# I dont think they are even care for the people whom they are causing trouble.
# I want to tell all jews think If moses(pbuh) would be amoung you what he 
# would have done?  He would have fight against you, As he fought against feroh.

	Ahem, but he was one of us, and he would have fought against Jewish
enemies (such as yourself) as he did then.

# If you belive that you are chosen people then let me tell you you are not 
# chosen for destiny.  Israel is doing every thing which feroh did or hitler did.
# What is the difference btw hitler, feroh or I.goverment every body who support such a behaviour will be destent with those.  

	More anti semitic drivel.

# It is shameful to occupy a land and to bring people from all over but to 
# not give the right to those people who are living in the neighbour hoods.

	More ignorant drivel.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: ACLU/AJC Menorah Police?
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 16:32:22 GMT

In article <1993Jan3.035409.2468@Princeton.EDU> jacobw@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jacob Solomon Weinstein) writes:

# makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes (in reference to the
# ACLU):

# >	If they wanted to fight for a secular society that permitted
# >religious expression that would be one thing.  After all, my tax
# >dollars were used to buy public property and I would like to be able
# >to use it (although I do not think the state should pay for the
# >menorah - I should be allowed to use my own).  However, it would seem
# >that they are fighting for a secular society without any religion at
# >all.  If you prefer that, I suggest you contemplate the consequences.
 
# One problem that seems to often pop up in debates about Church and State
# is that people confuse the government with society. I think that the
# government ought to be utterly free of religion. I also think that
# religion contributes tremendously to society. Just because you view
# something as a good thing doesn't mean that you think it ought to be
# federally subsidized. I don't claim to have any unusual insight
# into the Divine, but I find it difficult to imagine a Supreme Being that
# depends on the succor of the United States government.

	I do not remember exactly what it was that I replied to, but I
believe if you included it that my useage of the word "society"
instead of "government" would have been easily seen as justified.

	At any rate, I believe it is impossible (due to human nature if
nothing else) to completely make government utterly free of religion.
And I just want to state that while I support the right to put
religious utems in public places I believe all religions should have
an equal shot and I also believe the state should not pay for any of
the displays.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
From: z_ablesrl@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Import/Export research
Date: 29 Dec 92 00:17:15 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

Hello all,

	We are doing research on various items that international countries
would be interested in exporting and importing.  The items can consist of
anything from clothing to large machines.  Of course, they must be a legal
product to enter and exit the different countries.  These are some questions 
that we are trying to find the answers to:
 
1.) How would we gather information concerning the legal regulations on
	shipping to Isreal? 

2.) Who would an individual contact about shipping requirements for that
	country?  

3.) What kind of licences or paper work does a company need to enter
	that foreign market place?


I really would appreciate any help concerning this matter.  Thank you very
much for your time and hope to hear from you soon.




Sincerely,


Ron Ables

********************************************************************************
Internet Addresses:
			z_ablesrl@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
       			    
				   or
			   
			   sfa1@jetson.uh.edu

**********************************************************************************           
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: Andy the Canadian 
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems
Distribution: na 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:23:38 GMT

In <9212211501.AA10800@hrt213.brooks.af.mil> tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller) writes:

>On Sat, 19 Dec 1992 20:32:04 GMT, pasward@maytag.uwaterloo.ca (Paul A.S. Ward) said:

> P> Hey, now wait a minute; both David Skoll and I come from Canada.  (Besides 
> P> which, we're certainly not mediocre in Baseball - yes (and here we really 
> P> rub it in!) CANADA won the WORLD SERIES!  HA!  Yes the American national
> P> pastime is now no longer in American hands!

>	Yeah right.  You can count the Canadians that play for the Jays
>on one hand.

>-- Cerebus <tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil>
>"Canadian team, my butt."

Yeah, sort of like our American hockey teams, eh?

REB

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish