HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox)
Subject: Re: Engineers must communicate better.
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 07:51:47 GMT

In article <11DEC199215182870@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov> ecaxron@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Ron Graham) writes:
>There is no newsgroup in all off Usenet in which more indignant eighth-
>grade English teachers can be found.  I have asked questions in misc.writing
>several times - honest questions, for which I wanted an honest answer, and
>I have never failed to be flamed.  It's a club, not a useful tool.

	I'm somewhat mystified by this--i.e., I usually at least skim this
newsgroup and haven't seen this happen.  So I ask Mr. Graham:  what have you
asked that didn't get answered but got you flamed?  And I promise to give an
answer if I have one to any of his questions.


-- 
				Tom Maddox
		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
		"The Reptoids eat humans like we eat chickens."
				Alex Alexander
From: jl3j+@andrew.cmu.edu (John Robert Leavitt)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Rejection Slips
Date: 20 Dec 92 06:49:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.UfB_E5W00WB6A2DXo6
Organization: Center for Machine Translation, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes:

>bjones@denitqm.uswest.com (Brent Jones) writes:
>
>>>      I can almost see why you would waste your time by writing
>>>      this, but I cannot even comprehend why you would waste mine,
>>>      by sending it to me.
>
>>I don't think you need to maintain the anonymity of someone who wrote a
>>rejection letter like this
>
>If I could make a guess, it's probably WEIRD TALES, and George Scithers.
>He's well known for his crotchetyness, and this seems like his style.
>


I'm glad I'm not the only one to encounter Mr. Scithers in this manner.  A
few years back when he was editing Amazing, he sent me some rejection slips
that were quite nasty indeed.

-John.
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: waffle@steer.sdsu.edu (waffle)
Subject: RE: Palindromes
Keywords: 51-pound sack o' palindromes
Organization: SDSU Computing Services
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 04:58:15 GMT

I found this list of palindromes on LambdaMOO (lambda.parc.xerox.com 8888).
Some are stupid, but I like #38 best.

1   Able was I ere I saw Elba.
2   A man, a plan, a canal- Panama.
3   Rats live on no evil star.
4   Madam, I'm Adam.
5   Sums are not set as a test on Erasmus.
6   Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas!
7   A Dog, A Plan, A Cat, A Canal, Pagoda!
8   Remarkable was I, ere I saw Elba - Kramer.
9   Doc, note, I dissent.  A fast never prevents a fatness.  I diet on cod.
10  No lemons, no melon.
11  Red rum, sir, is murder
12  pull up if I pull up
13  He goddam mad dog eh
14  Sit on a potato pan, Otis.
15  Lewd did I live & evil I did dwel.
16  Drat!  Saddam, mad dastard!
17  Ten animals i slam in a net.
18  If Arnold Schwarzenegger were gagged, his plea for help might sound
 something like, "ekilg nihtem osd nuosth gimpleh rofa elps ihdeg gager ewreg
 genez rawhcsd lon rafi!"
19  Live not on evil, madam, live not on evil.
20  A fool, a tool, a pool--Loopalootaloofa!
21  Now ere we nine were held idle here, we nine were won.
22  Ah, Satan sees Natasha.
23  Lonely Tylenol
24  Lisa Bonet ate no basil.
25  Wednesday ads end.  Ew!
26  Yreka Bakery
27  Noon
28  Radar
29  Wow!
30  I'm a... I'm a... Miami!
31  Smart? Not on trams.
32  Elite Tile
33  race car
34  ALLEGRO LISP'S EVAL SLAVES PSI LORGELLA
35  DumbMUD
36  Harpo not on Oprah.
37  bonk omen nemo knob
38  A man, a plan, a canoe, pasta, heros, rajahs, a coloratura, maps, snipe,
 percale, macaroni, a gag, a banana bag, a tan, a tag, a banana bag again (or
 a camel), a crepe, pins, Spam, a rut, a Rolo, cash, a jar, sore hats, a peon,
 a canal--Panama!
39  Hell, a spacecraft farce caps all, eh?
40  "Deliver desserts," demanded Nemesis, "emended, named, stressed, reviled!"
41  Spam on dogs is poor, oops is God, no maps.
42  Straw? No, too stupid a fad. I put soot on warts.
43  Booga: a goob
44  A mall llama.
45  A slut was I ere I saw Tulsa
46  snug gnus sung GUNS
47  Egad, a base tone denotes a bad age!
48  UFO Tofu
49  Was it a car or a cat I saw?
50  Ha! Fool on tub, but no loofah!
51  bonk nuts stun knob


Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com (Fred Welden)
Subject: Re: Publishers on the Net??
Originator: sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 14:53:27 GMT
Organization: Dobonia


In article <1992Dec11.224020.24608@cs.sfu.ca>, shell@cs.sfu.ca (Barry Shell) writes:
|
|Does anyone know if the big New York publishing houses are on
|the Internet? Like Simon and Shuster, HarperCollins, Houghton Mifflin,
|Bantam Doubleday Dell, Penguin USA, Random House, etc.

Houghton Mifflin is a big Boston publishing house.  (Not that this
affects their net-access status, but we may as well get the city right.)
-- 
--Fred, or another blind 8th-century BC  |  sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com
        Hellenic poet of the same name.  |
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: kathy@nevada.edu (Kathy Eyster)
Subject: Re: LIBRARIES
Organization: UCCSN Computing Services
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:25:57 GMT

In his article of 1992 Dec 16 Jonathan B. Horen asks:

>
>How about others? Also, does anyone know of online, ASCII-format collections
>available for browsing/ftp/etc. over the Internet?
>

Yes, Jon, there are other library catalogs available for electronic
access. One of the best ways into them is through Gopher, an Internet
search program. If you don't have Gopher available on any of your
machines, you can connect to the original Gopher server (the Mother of all
Gophers) at the University of Minnesota by following these 2 steps:

1. telnet consultant.micro.umn.edu
2. Log in as "gopher"

A menu will appear through which you can connect to library catalogs
in Colorado, Nevada, California, even the Library of Congress in
Washington, D.C. You can also gain access to weather information for
North America, files of recipes, sounds to play on your workstation,
and a host of other fun things. 

Enjoy!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kathy Eyster				Internet: kathy@nevada.edu	
System Computing Services		Bitnet: kathy@nevada2
4505 Maryland Parkway			Phone: (702) 895-4587
Box 454016				FAX: (702) 895-3791
Las Vegas, NV  USA  89154-4016
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: shell@cs.sfu.ca (Barry Shell)
Subject: Publishers on the Net??
Organization: CSS, Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:40:20 GMT


Does anyone know if the big New York publishing houses are on
the Internet? Like Simon and Shuster, HarperCollins, Houghton Mifflin,
Bantam Doubleday Dell, Penguin USA, Random House, etc.
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: mbrownel@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Mark Brownell)
Subject: RE: support for the arts in the US
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:41:00 GMT

e: support for the arts in the US

For any of you Americans who are considering adopting a Canadian style
of funding for the arts, I would like to point out some fundamental
problems with our system that merit some thought. 

Adopting a granting body like the Canada Council will create the
following problems:

1) Ossification of the bureacracy: As the granting body ages, more and
more money goes towards the infrastructure of the council and less goes
towards the artists themselves. (A recent case in Toronto featured a
local council siphoning funds out of artist's pockets and into their
employee pension fund.) 

2) Creation of artistic fiefs: Jury members often recommend grants to
"contemporaries" whose work is familiar to them. There are even a few
examples of individual jury members recommending a project in which they
are directly involved in - "leaving the room" as other members vote.
Many young artists feel that they are shut out of this process merely
because they don't have the right connections.

3) "What is Art?": Who is to determine which project is valid and which
is not? The acceptance of one applicant automatically means the
exclusion of another. 

4) Artists turn into grant writers! There are many out there who have
evolved into great grant writers but have lost their artististic ability
along the way! 

5) Juries begin shying away from politically incorrect material until
all that remains is watered down pablum that no one has any interest in.

6) ...the list goes on...

Before my fellow Kanucks flame me to a crisp (no doubt they have all
received council funding!) I would like to close by saying that I
support government funding of the arts. The system may not be perfect
but I've yet to see a better way. If you Yanks spent 1/10th of your
military budget on the arts, you would be the envy of the world!

Sincerely,


Chuck Cook


(oops! just kidding) :-)

Sincerely,


Mark B.
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: sprague@nihal.NoSubdomain.NoDomain 
Subject: Idea Collecting Software?
Reply-To: sprague.henr801c@xerox.com
Organization: Xerox Corporation
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 12:38:09 GMT

Someone mentioned in the near past a software package called Memory
Mate.  I'd like to know more about the package.  It isn't easy to find
and I'd like to know more before I order it.

Or, are there any other other software packages that are made for
collecting ideas.  I have many tidbits that I'd like to characterize
by topic or date or something to review a list of relevant ideas. 
Searching through pages of ideas that aren't organized doesn't seem
right when I have a 386 sitting at my desk. 

Any help would be appreciated.

Mary Ann
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Scripts
Date: 20 Dec 1992 20:47 PST
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

>> ... looking from any internet or FTP sites that hold screenplays.  
>> All I've gotten so far is Star Wars screenplays and Monty Python.

> I find it somewhat distressing that someone in misc.writing, of 
> all places, would be asking for help in violating other writers'
> copyrights.  Dave Barry and Douglas Adams, among others, have not
> appreciated the massive electronic copying of their work without
> authorization or payment.

I wouldn't want to break my record of (as far as I know) 100% 
net.agreement with Elle by saying that we're comparing apples 
to oranges.  :)  But we're at least comparing Golden Delicious
to Granny Smith.  Dave Barry's humorous column can be enjoyed
in its entirety on a computer terminal, depriving him and his
syndicator and his publishers of their money.  Somehow I don't
think *reading* about Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader chasing down
the canyon is going to be quite the same as seeing it...

It's still wrong, though.  If you post copyrighted works to the 
net beyond the bounds of fair use, at least have the good grace 
to blush, so to speak -- acknowledge that *you*, not your sysadmin 
or employer or other net.entities, are the responsible party.
Better yet, restrict yourself to fair use or write for permission.

Cheers,

Joe
"Broken English is the unofficial language of science."
                               Francois Kourilsky, CRNS
From: horen@netcom.com (Jonathan B. Horen -- [408] 736-3923)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: LIBRARIES
Date: 16 Dec 92 19:05:09 GMT
Organization: NetCom -- OnLine Communication Services

In article <BzCtKt.Cz9@nocusuhs.nnmc.navy.mil> yoshi@nocusuhs.nnmc.navy.mil (D M Yoshikami) writes:

[informative posting deleted only for brevity's sake]

I would like to add that increasingly, libraries are permitting remote access
to their computerized catalogs, via modem -- the Sunnyvale (CA) Public Library
is one such critter. Here, I can perform a limited number of commands (search
by title, author, subject; display entries, # of copies), but cannot (yet)
reserve books or access inter-library databases.

How about others? Also, does anyone know of online, ASCII-format collections
available for browsing/ftp/etc. over the Internet?

I know, for example, that one can ftp to ftp.uu.net and find a lot of
interesting stuff in the /docs directory...


Jonathan B. Horen
Sun System Administrator/Sr. Technical Writer
tel: (408) 736-3923 | email: horen@netcom.com
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: argent@iastate.edu (The Great Grendel-Khan)
Subject: Re: The ultimate rejection slip
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 04:47:22 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.150526.1@ducvax.auburn.edu> wkeown@ducvax.auburn.edu writes:
>
>   I found this article on rec.humor.funny (moderated by Maddi Hausmann)
>and thought this group could truly appreciate it.
>
>Originally from: shallit@graceland.uwaterloo.ca (Jeffrey Shallit)
>
>The Humanist Association of Canada Spring 1992 Newsletter
>contains the following item:
>
>	For writers only -- Every writer has received rejection
>	slips; too many of them for most.  The "Financial Times"
>	has quoted the "mother of all rejection slips", translated
>	from a Chinese economic journal.  It goes like this:
>
>	We have read your manuscript with boundless delight.  If
>	we were to publish your paper, it would be impossible for
>	us to publish any work of lower standard.  And as it is
>	unthinkable that in the next thousand years we shall see
>	its equal, we are, to our regret, compelled to return your
>	divine composition, and to beg you a thousand times to
>	overlook our short sight and timidity.
>
>

How about this one?
I fugure he was having a bad day, and I won't even say what magazine
sent me this (I have it hanging on my wall).


	I can almost see why you would waste your time by writing
	this, but I cannot even comprehend why you would waste mine,
	by sending it to me.

			     sincerely,
					[sig deleted]

Hand written too.
-- 
The Great Grendel-Khan,  | They called me the fool, they called me the child
Earth Rim Roamer.        | I found an angel of the night;
                         | The voice was low, the look was bright.
argent@iastate.edu       | She looked upon my crown and smiled. -Tennyson-
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: Alan_Barclay@mindlink.bc.ca (Alan Barclay)
Subject: Re: support for the arts in the US
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 07:54:34 GMT

Curtis Yarvin writes on his oppinion on government support for the arts:

/*
The difference is that presumably you are old enough now to pay
for your own artistic voices, and do not have to stick a gun in
the back of poor Great-Aunt Mildred, who has not read anything
but TV Guide since 1974 and cannot tell artistic voices from
the mating calls of plumbing.

Do not automatically assume that you are superior to old bag
Mildred and thus have a right to take her money; even were the
former true the latter is not, I think, the sort of precedent
you want to be setting.
*/

Aunt Mildred also knows (and cares) nothing for the trillions spent on
defence, government subsidy of business, welfare, and lots of other things.
Government already takes it upon itself to decide 1) that people should pay
taxes, and 2) what to spend it on.

Are you arguing that one shouldn't subsidize the arts because some
taxpayers don't care about it?


--
Alan


alan_barclay@mindlink.bc.ca

"When is a leg of lamb like a poet?"

Answer: "When it's browning."
From: bg843@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Don Canaan)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Andre Schwartzbart-Where is he?
Date: 12 Dec 1992 22:23:48 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I'm trying to get in touch with him. can anyone give me his
address? Please e-mail me at usr0432a@cbos.uc.edu.

Thanx, Don Canaan
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Subject: Re: support for the arts in the US
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 04:23:09 GMT

In article <1gdnomINN3or@agate.berkeley.edu> curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin) writes:
>
>You raise the example of education - a fine one.  Education is
>a public good; public goods cannot be financed by anything
>other than forcible theft.  And because my education was
>financed thus I have an obligation to so finance other peoples'.

Then our "disagreement" may come down to defining education.  In brief,
education isn't restricted to the schools - education comes in many
forms, including reasonable access to a number of artistic voices
(and not just those that happen to be profitable this week).

Of course, not everyone will benefit - but then, some people come out
of the schools still illiterate.  An imperfect process, to be sure, but
then, all the system can do is provide the opportunities . . .

       The Rhealist - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: mapd1@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Nigel Ling)
Subject: Re: support for the arts in the US
Organization: University of Sussex
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 13:02:44 GMT

In article <bjones-091292160427@130.13.26.216> bjones@denitqm.uswest.com (Brent Jones) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.142911.14125@syma.sussex.ac.uk>,
>mapd1@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Nigel Ling) wrote:
>> 
>> I agree, art is created in spite of govts, not because of them. But
>> that doesn't mean a "cultured" society should necessarily leave
>> the artists to struggle to survive. Poe, for example, was I think
>> desperately poor all his life. Artists should at least have the
>> chance to make a living from their work. Otherwise art will surely
>> become more and more marginalised, as I think is already happening,
>> as time goes on.

>How would you recommend that artists be given this chance to make a living?
>Should they be paid a monthly stipend after applying for "artist" status at
>
>the local Ministry of Culture? "I'm sorry Mr. Smith, but we must reject
>your application. Although your soul does indeed seem to be tortured, the
>Standardized Test of Unbridled Potential for Inspired Dogma reveals
>that you have the artistic talents of a rutabaga. Next!" 
>
>Who decides what art is worth subsidizing, and what art isn't? I don't want
>Uncle Sam making that choice with *my* bucks.

With respect this is not I was suggesting. For artists to be able to
make a living means providing a climate in which they can do so -
ie a society which values art and artists. In my other post I mentioned
that a literary magazine in England is partly supported by a grant from
a public body. If this grant did not exist the magazine would be
unlikely to survive, and hence there would be one less outlet for
writers of serious literature. So writers are not paid to write, but
there are buyers for their work.

>
>I don't believe society or the government *owes* anyone a 
>living for choosing to pursue private avenues of investigation like 
>art and writing. If the resulting product is something others are 
>willing to pay for,fine. The artist makes his or her living. 

But the point is a writer must get into print before others will
buy the work. If there is no support for literature then it is
in danger of being swamped by all the pulp. Some may think this
would be no bad thing: I don't.

>If not, too bad. Or should we all be forced by the government to
>arbitrarily 
>buy a certain number of works of art each year? This is what the funding of
>artistic endeavors with tax money amounts to.

Well, we all pay taxes and no doubt we all object to the way some of
the money is spent. It all depends on one's values.

>
>Private foundations and grants are, of course, a different story.
>
>Don't mean to sound harsh, but as a writer of fiction I've published a few
>stories and never made a penny, and will probably never make a living with 
>my craft. So perhaps I should whine, "But....but...I *write* these stories 
>and nobody *pays* me for it. No fair!" 

What you might be justified in whining about, however, is the lack of
opportunity to publish.

Nigel

Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: sasjcs@canoe.unx.sas.com (Joan Stout)
Subject: Re: Style, grammar, punctuation - recommendation?
Originator: sasjcs@canoe.unx.sas.com
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:41:44 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.


In article <75615@apple.apple.COM>, chuq@Apple.COM (Eeyore's Evil Twin) writes:
|> wherndon@smiley.mitre.org (William Herndon) writes:
|>
|> >    Can anyone recommend a good guide to style, grammar, and punctua-
|> >    tion for a novice fiction writer?
|>
|> I like MRS. THISTLEBOTTOM'S HOBGOBLINS from Thomas Bernstein. Very
|> un-dogmatic and fun to read. In fact, anything by Bernstein is usually worth
|> reading, but this book not only discusses good grammar, but also discusses
|> all of the stuff you're taught taht is either wrong or blown out of
|> proportion.
|>

For something else a little different, try _The Well-Tempered Sentence,
A Punctuation Handbook for the Innocent, the Eager, and the Doomed_, and
_The Transitive Vampire, A Handbook of Grammar for the Innocent, the 
Eager, and the Doomed_. Both are by Karen Elizabeth Gordon.

Rules are presented briefly and clearly. Each rule is followed by
interesting examples. Illustrations are entertaining, too.

Here's an example from _The Well-Tempered Sentence_.

        Appositives - words that follow a noun or pronoun and identify
        it - are usually set off by commas if they are nonrestrictive. 
        Such words add parenthetical information.

                Her cat, Mount Diablo Base Line as Seen from Highway
                395 Just North of Bridgeport, knew how to give an
                admirable back rub with his well-tempered and discreet
                claws.

Joan
<------------------------------->
|  Joan Stout                   |
|  Technical Writer             |
|  sasjcs@unx.sas.com           |
|  SAS Institute, Inc.          |
|  Cary, NC 919 677-8000        |
<------------------------------->
From: chuq@Apple.COM (Eeyore's Evil Twin)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Publishers on the Net??
Date: 15 Dec 92 01:43:31 GMT
Organization: Pooh Corner Country Club -- A Planned Community

sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com (Fred Welden) writes:

>Houghton Mifflin is a big Boston publishing house.  (Not that this
>affects their net-access status, but we may as well get the city right.)

Good point. My initial question was "Why does he want to know?", followed by
a quick "what in the heck good would it do for a publishing house to be on
the net, anyway?" but then, what do I know?

-- 
            Chuq "IMHO" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX)
                      Member, SFWA =+= Editor, OtherRealms
                chuq@apple.com | GEnie: MAC.BIGOT | ALink:CHUQ 

                       Sterling Holloway: We'll miss you.
From: nicolas@stam.nl (Nico Veenkamp)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Libraries (was Re: support for the arts in the US)
Date: 17 Dec 92 16:51:26 GMT
Organization: Stam Tijdschriften bv, Rijswijk, The Netherlands

yoshi@nocusuhs.nnmc.navy.mil (D M Yoshikami) writes:
> This brings up an interesting point.  Libraries are a tremendous
> resource, when used properly, is a terrific tool not only for
> research, but also for commerce, business, and war.  For instance,
> 
As a reference librarian I wholehartedly agree. It amazes me everytime 
again how ignorant people are about libraries and the use of it. I give 
courses regulary for new employees within our company. And when I tell 
them what I can do for them they won't believe me until I show them.

I access lot's of databases in Holland and outside. There's a wealth of 
information, as on the Internet, if only you are willing to spend some 
time and effort in it.


      *================================================================*
      |  Nico Veenkamp	        | You write, we publish                |
      |  Stam Tijdschriften bv  | -------------------------------------|
      |  P.O. Box 235           | Internet : nicolas@stam.nl           |
      |  2280 AE  Rijswijk      | FidoNet  : 2:281/1.7                 |
      |  The Netherlands        | BIX      : nicolas                   |
      *================================================================*