HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga Future?!?
From: fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu
Date: 24 Jul 92 07:29:48 EST
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Distribution: world
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <192049@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov>, pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes:
> In article <1992Jul23.073751.3061@desire.wright.edu>, fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu writes:
>> In article <1100@se.alcbel.be>, magu@se.alcbel.be (Mike Aguilar) writes:
 
>> 	How do you think Commodore would make money and stay in business
>> 	by letting the Amiga architecture be cloned?
> 
> Yes, well, that brings up a key issue:  which are you more concerned about,
> the survival of the Amiga or the survival of Commodore?  If cloning the
> Amiga brought lower prices, competing chipsets, new capabilities, etc., and
> Commodore lacked the flexibility to compete, then I say let them go under.
> 
	Your point is well taken.  At the time I bought my 2000 it was
	the only machine that had priority/preemptive multitasking, 
	expandibility, built in to OS stereo sound, and a text based shell
	that was well integrated with a GUI that was made for the
	general user (that I knew of).

	I cut my computing teeth on PCs and VAX and deciding to buy an
	Amiga was tough; Not much software, "Game machine" stigma,
	premium price, etc.  Even friends that liked Amigas kinda said:
	"well are you sure you really want an Amiga because....."

	Now, the PC has caught up, in some respects, to the Amiga and
	is cheaper to boot.

	Back to your point....
	The PC world is interesting in that there is one big company
	making the OS, one big company making the CPUs (mostly), one company
	(mostly) making the video chips (TSENG right?) and lots of 
	smaller companies putting the stuff together.  This situation
	evolved from a unique beginning.  How can this be fitted to the 
	Amiga/Commodore situation?

	Most of the well respected names in the computer industry seem
	to be going toward, not away from, proprietary acrhitechtures,
	IMHO.  They all run mostly some version of Un*x.

> People are often willing to pay a higher price if they are convinced that,
> one way or another, they are getting their money's worth.
>
	Now there's the rub!
 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Paul Bartholomew          |   "The time has come, the walrus said, to talk of
>                           |    many things..."                  Lewis Carroll
> pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov   |   Disclaimer:  Opinions?  What opinions?
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fred Heitkamp,  
** I claim only my own BS, and it in no way reflects anything else **
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,rec.video.production
From: dtiberio@libws2.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio)
Subject: Re: The future of the Amiga is clear
Keywords: PEROT for President
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 05:55:56 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.101246.20783@newstand.syr.edu> ksalper@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Ken Alper) writes:
>  Not being a particular fan of the Amiga myself, I was just wondering...
>
>  How do all you Amiga-Lovers out there feel about someone saying Amiga has
>  a terrific future...and ending his post with 'Perot in '96"???
>
>  Seems like a real winner to me.
>
>  Not.
>
>  Ken
>

	I changed it to '96 as a joke. And I never bothered to change it back.

	I am also a registered Republican, if that matters. Who the hell
knows why, but that's the truth.

	I have avoided talking about Perot in this group. Most responses
so far have been from idiots who know nothing about Perot. And don't seem
to know that our current president, former head of the CIA, the educational
president who cut financial aid, the environmental president who deregulated
pollution controls on industries (such as scrubbers on smoke stacks), the
no-new-taxes president who raised taxes, and the man who overthrows other
governments for personal profit...just might not be the right candidate.

	He also was heavily invlved with overthrowing our own government by
supplying Iran and Iraq with armaments during the 1970's and 1980's. What
kind of a country funds both sides of a war? A greedy one does. And he was
well know to have helped cause trouble during the Carter administration
in order to get him voted out.

	Carter threatened to bomb Tehren (in Iran), and sent a helicopter 
mission to rescue the hostages. But the hostages weren't released until 
around January 28th, the day Reagan was sworn in. The Iranians were
afraid of Reagan, but were not afraid of having their capital city bombed.
Interesting, eh?


-- 
      //   David Tiberio  SUNY Stony Brook 516-473-5156 AMIGA  DDD-MEN   
     //  bounce-resistant:    dtiberio%libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu@sunysb.edu
   \X/	    Perot for President 1-516-399-2259 Long Island, New York

 	PPPP  EEEEE RRRR   OOO  TTTTT    IIIII N   N      999   6666
	P   P E     R   R O   O   T        I   NN  N     9   9 6
	PPPP  EEEE  RRRR  O   O   T        I   N N N      9999 6666
 	P     E     R R   O   O   T        I   N  NN         9 6   6
 	P     EEEEE R  R   OOO    T      IIIII N   N     9999   666
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amigas are cool(MP and VM)
From: fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu
Date: 28 Jul 92 06:45:00 EST
 <1992Jul25.214840.24771@ctr.columbia.edu> <1992Jul26.093409.3092@desire.wright.edu> <1992Jul27.152601.21696@ctr.columbia.edu>
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <1992Jul27.152601.21696@ctr.columbia.edu>, jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
> fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu writes:
>>
>>	As far as memory protection, I fail to see the big deal about not
>>	having it.  If you run good software, your memory should never get
>>	trashed.  Now if your a developer, that's a different story.
>>	I mean you have to kill -9 processes on Un*x occasionally.
>>
> 
> This is like saying, "Car insurance?  Who needs it!  If you only drive in
> cities where there are no bad drivers, you should never have an accident."
> 
	Actually, memory protection is only part of the story.  You also
	need a ups, backup hardware, and possibly a redundant harddrive.
	For data security, memory protection is only a start.  To elaborate
	my contention is that for a majority, the value added by memory
	protection will be minimal.  The car insurance analogy is not that
	good for one reason: I can't get horribly maimed and disfigured or 
	lose a loved one when my computer writes to the system area :-)

>>
>>	As for VM, it again is over-rated.  you can always put in more
>>	memory.
>>
> 
> This is like saying, "Credit cards are overrated.  You can always carry
> more cash.
>
	Some people play fast and loose with their credit cards and it
	gets them in trouble!

	From reading this news group, I get the impression that adding
	VM to the Amiga is not a real problem.  Although A500 owners
	with no harddrive might not see any benefit.

	Adding memory protection to the Amiga will slow down and bulk up 
	the operating system and also require a major rewrite of the kernel.

	My experience when 2.04 crashes has been that about half the time
	the OS will catch the errant process and you can then suspend it.
	The other half requires a hard reboot.
  
Fred Heitkamp,  ** Not claiming any organization **
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: ! Pournelle [sic] says that there is a new amiga !
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 20:16:43 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.191906.11567@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> rickan@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Mark Rickan) writes:
>In article <0eQNm4600XNI1NmFA0@cs.cmu.edu> Michael.Witbrock@cs.cmu.edu writes:
>
>>Well, I was looking in a copy of BYTE in a bookstore, and I looked at
>>the list of topics (not the index, the other list), which I do, rather
>>forlornly, out of habit, and lo and behold, the word "AMIGA" was on the
>>list. So I turned to the page mentioned, and it was Pournelle's
>>``column''. I searched, and near the end, I found about two sentences to
>>the effect that: His next column would be about the state of amigas, and
>>that he had recieved a *new Amiga* just the previous week. 
>>O.K. that's what it said. Fire up the rumour mills.
>
>If there is a God, please let it not be an A600.

I hope it is not any of the current offerings.  I fail to see why anyone
would listen to his constant bitching and moaning about the hardware and
software given to him, but obviously Byte thinks that someone is reading
it.  My opinion of him will be even worse if he uses his column as a 
vehicle for trashing a once great machine which has suffered miserably 
due to the neglect from its abusive parent company.

He might actually have a new Amiga and may heap praise upon it, but I
doubt that it would be enough to save the platform in the US.

                                                          ___         __
  Skip Sauls, TKKC Charter Member                          |  |/  |/ / 
  skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu                                |  |\  |\ \__
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: MINDLIGHT: info WANTED!
From: avogel@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 27 Jul 92 11:05:03 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

As the subject indicates, I am looking fo info on the AMINDLIGHT
oops the MINDLIGHT.
Here is what I know (I saw one at a demo and know of someone who has one).
It is a circular petri-dish sorta looking thing that is see-through.
It has inside a circuit board and a bunch 'o lights.
What it does is synch some cool graphics shapes to music pumped in from an
outside souce (and the software allows you to do 100s of variations), it plugs
into the joystick port.
As far as I know it is patented by someone in California and it is not mass
produced.  I think he has sold maybe 100-200 of these things and they go for
about #200  oops $200 new.  If anyone has any info on where to get one or
someone has one to sell let me know.  Thanks.
AVOGEL@EAGLE.WESLEYAN.EDU

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:24:31 GMT

In article <mykes.09vc@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>In article <doctor.017n@k9.UUCP> doctor@k9.UUCP (Paul Broe) writes:
>> In article <1992Jul22.025609.11779@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>> >    Not quite.  AmigaOS runs very well on an A2000 with a 14Mhz 68020
>                                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^
>> > accelerator, 4M of RAM, and 40M SCSI hard drive.  No modern versions of UNIX
>                 ^^^^^^^^^      ^^^
>> > will run at all on such a system, because it lacks an MMU, doesn't have enough
>>                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>
>Mark is wrong about the MMU (wish I had the 851 for the HW breakpoints :)  He is
>not wrong about a 4M RAM, 40M HD machine being a ridiculously small machine to
>run Unix with a GUI.  Can't swap.  Not enough RAM to load "hello, world" and
>not enough HD to install Unix on.

   I'm not wrong, I was simply misunderstood.  I was not referring to any 
accelerators in particular.  I was simply saying that an Amiga with a 14Mhz
68020, 4M of RAM, and 40M HD would be a very nixce platform for AmigaOS.  
There are many such systems out there; Commodore's '020 accelerator was the
only one that I know of that included theMMU, while dozens of such third-party
acclerators were produced that did not have the MMU.  The MMU isn't much 
good for AmigaOS, though.

>
>> If you are referring to the A2620, you are wrong. Ask someone who owns one. :-)

   I most certainly WASN'T referring to the A2620.  

>Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
>Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
>Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
>1124 Fremont Ave.
>Los Altos, CA 94024

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
-----------------------------------------------------
"If you like Congress, you'll **LOVE** Bill Clinton."
                                --new campaign slogan
From: dvan@pnet01.cts.com (David Vandeven)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: A message from the National Amiga PC haters Group..
Date: 28 Jul 92 02:16:03 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet01], El Cajon CA

A message from the National Amiga PC haters Group..

PC's SUCK!
Any questions?
______________________________________________________________________________
 "Knowing everything would be impractical: access time would be enourmous."
                                      -Eve- 'Mann & Machine'
David Vandeven-     ********************************************************
Systems Progammer   *   UUCP: {hplabs!hp-sdd ucsd nosc}!crash!pnet01!dvan  *
                    *   ARPA: crash!pnet01!dvan@nosc.mil                   *
    PRIMUS          *   INET: dvan@pnet01.cts.com                          *
     SUCKS!         ********************************************************
From: ricci@cbmvax.commodore.com (Mark Ricci - CATS)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,connect.audit
Subject: Re: OH MY GOD...I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I JUST SAW
Date: 30 Jul 92 16:08:30 GMT
Reply-To: ricci@cbmvax.commodore.com (Mark Ricci - CATS)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

dtiberio@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:
>In article <1992Jul28.182214.4922@ibmpcug.co.uk> george@ibmpcug.co.uk (Michael Veltman) writes:
>>
>>So,  If I'd like to mail 
>>the big C= myself, and tell them
>>that I love the Amiga, but dont
>>like what's happening with it,
>>
>>How (or where) can I do this?

>	suggestions@cbmvax.commodore.com


Wrong!  Please do not do that.

The suggestions address is for Amiga suggestions, not for general feelings 
about what C= should and should not be doing.  

Thanks.


Mark
-- 
===============================================================================
 Mark Ricci - CATS          |   Perot For President -- oh well, not anymore
 Commodore Applications and |             Hello, Andre Marrou
 Technical Support          |             
 ricci@cbmvax.commodore.com |       (but I'd still rather have Jack Kemp)
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata FSO)
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:50:35 GMT

In article <dano.711954555@srl01> dano@srl01.usl.edu (Dan Stephenson) writes:
>ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata FSO) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Jul22.213200.24803@ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>>>ata@hfsi.UUCP (John Ata FSO) writes:
>>>>
>>>Exactly my point, John.  OS/2 2.0 and AmigaDOS 2.04 do *not* have roughly
>>>equivalent usefulness and functionality.  So why should they be expected
>>>to run on the same hardware and occupy the same amount of RAM and HD space?
>>>
>>What functionality/usefulness does OS/2 posess that AmigaDOS 2.04 does
>>not?  I am talking about the operating system here, not what runs on top
>>of it.  Also please stay clear of VM/non-VM issues as there are clearly
>>tradeoffs as to which approach is desired.  The same can be said for
>>memory protection as well.  Other than these issues, OS/2 has better
>>capabilities and functionality than AmigaDOS 2.04 because:___________
>
>What's wrong with VM? You seem to think that VM capability is BAD.
>The capability, whether you have RAM enogh to not neeed it or not.

I *never* said there was anything wrong with VM.  As a matter of
fact, I like VM :).  Jerry made the comment that one shouln't
compare OS/2 with AmigaDOS 2.0 because the former had much more
functionality.  I was trying to find out what this was.  When one
considers functionality, one shouldn't compare HOW the operating
system functions but what it actually accomplishes.  Yes, we all
know that we can run programs bigger than physical memory size
with VM.  But there are sacrifices that are made to achieve this
and so rather than getting into a debate about which approach was
better, I asked that VM not be included.  Surely there must be
something else?

>
>More importantly, there is a big misconception about the size of OS/2 on 
>your hardisk.  You see, OS/2 comes with LOTS of stuff.  Stuff like
>Windows compatiblilty, MSDOS compatiblility, and zillion and zillions
>of 'applets', games, etc etc etc.  I saved my self many megs
>getting rid of REXX, some sillier games, and lotsof 'personal
>productivity' garbage.  I kept the DOS and Windows, though, of course. 

Well, the question is how much resources do you need to do a defined
task on one operating system vs. another.  Anyone can strip down an
operating system by deleting commands and utilites.
>
>Dan Stephenson|das9674@usl.edu masres10@ucs.usl.edu dano@srl01.cacs.usl.edu
>Come all of you you/Who are not satisfied/As rulers in a lone wall/
>papered room/Full of mute bird and flowers that /Falsely bloom/And
>closets choked with dreams that long ago died,... --Judy Collins


-- 
John G. Ata - Technical Consultant | Internet:     hfsi!ata@UUNET.UU.NET
HFS, Inc.		  VA20     |     UUCP:     uunet.uu.net!hfsi!ata
7900 Westpark Drive	 MS:601	   |    Voice:	(703) 827-6810
McLean, VA  22102	           |      FAX:	(703) 827-3729
From: nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: AMIGA vs. IBM AUDIO???
Date: 22 Jul 1992 02:00:21 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

avogel@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
>nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou) writes:

[ PAS-16 and SunRize board ]

>> The PAS-16 sure can sample, 2 channel 16-bit stereo sampling at 44.1 KHz.
>> It also has a nice FM chip for 20 synthesized voices.  To compare quality
>> you'll have to listen to each of them

>No I know a bit about the SunRize product Studio 16 (I had the oportunity to
>play around with one) and I am curious if you know how the PAS 16 compares in
>some of the following features.  After all the Studio 16 goes for about $600

I'm not really qualified to comment since I've never heard either one.

>while the PAS 16 goes for $219, I am hoping that Studio-16 owners are paying
>for something.

I would sure hope so, for Studio-16 owners' sake.

>	Ok, I know that you can take the audio off lets say a video tape -
>digitize it and then be able to edit it but synched with the video like when
>you playback the audio you see the counter for the video so you can do perfect
>synching of your audio to your video (a usually hard and laborious task).

Nice card for video work, a market the PAS-16 is not exactly tailored for.

>	You can also fade, cross fade, and eliminate sections of audio.  You
>can trigger just about as many sounds as you want as Studio 16 works off the
>hard drive.

From the second-hand info I got, yes, these effects are possible, with the
built-in analog mixer.

>	You can cut copy paste, reverse, zoom, scale audio.  And an ad I have
>says that offers CD fequency response and 70db signal to noise ratio.
>	How does PAS-16 compare?

Hard to say, never having heard either.  The SunRize board certainly seem
more powerful, people probably buy it for professional video and audio work
while most PAS-16 owners use their cards for games.   One thing to note is
that since the PC has device independant audio (Microsoft MPC, IBM
Ultimedia, PAS-16 drivers are available for both) the PAS-16 has a much
bigger potential market.

A closer comparison to the Studio 16 would be the Turtle Beach MultiSound,
it has a DSP56001 for CD quality playback and sampling (64x oversampling),
a 128-voice MIDI synthesizer with 4 MB of ROM samples, this card lists for 
$999.

-- Nan
From: marks@castle.ed.ac.uk (Mark Steyn)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Ok Dan, What is Gleeep?
Date: 27 Jul 92 11:13:28 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: Edinburgh University

Don't keep us in suspense!

	Mark

-- 
? As long as the youngest child is free to dream,  ? Mark Steyn :          ?
? In the forest that we call imagination,          ? marks@castle.ed.ac.uk ?
? There shall always be a Unicorn.                 ? mpjs@dcs.ed.ac.uk     ?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: bill@snoopy (Bill Poitras)
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Reply-To: bill@msi.com
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:48:23 GMT

andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes:
: >Ahhh more Amigoid OS/2 bullshit.  Have you seen it run?  From what I've
: >heard, a 386SX-20 w/8MB RAM runs OS/2 2.0 quite well.  If you just want
: 
: 
: Let me get this straight...you flame someone for complaining on the
: speed of OS/2 on anything less than a 386DX-33 without seeing
: it run;  yet you imply that you've not seen it run on a 386SX either 
: in your counter aggument ?

I haven't seen it run, but other OS/2 users have.  I believe it was
Timothy Sipples, quite a trustworthy source.

: That's an interesting argument;   The old 
: "You've never tried it so you don't know; I've never tried it, so I do know"
: line of reasoning isn't often used.
: 
: There's probably a good reason for this.
: 
: >| Bill Poitras    | Molecular Simulations Inc.    | Tel (408)522-9229       |

What are you implying, my name, the name of my company, or the fact I
work in the 408 area code ;-)

--
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Bill Poitras    | Molecular Simulations Inc.    | Tel (408)522-9229       |
| (bill)          | Sunnyvale, CA USA             |                         | 
|                 | FAX (408)732-0831             | bill@msi.com            |
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
From: rknop@cco.caltech.edu (Robert Andrew Knop)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Well, Jerry Pournell says that there is a new amiga
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:21:02 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena

lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad) writes:

>If Jerry Pournelle tells us about a new Amiga, he will probably tell
>about A600.... (or about A3000 :-)

I predict it's a 3000; as of a couple of months ago, he had recently received
an A3000 that he was playing with.

-Rob Knop
rknop@tybalt.caltech.edu
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Games on consoles
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (beta) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 29 Jul 92 23:54:50 PST
Organization: Amiga makes it possible

In article <1992Jul29.210450.3649@newshost.unh.edu> ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
> >Well I've purchased several PC games over the past little while. Most have
> >been worthless.
> >
> >PC games (and I've tried a lot recently) quite
> >frankly are poor ( with exceptions, such as many from Sierra)
>
> 	I think you underestimate PC games.  There are quite a few out there
>    that are very nice.  Over the last few months I bought quite a few great
>    PC games: Ultima Underworld, Star Trek the 25th Anniversary, Links 386 Pro,
>    Red Baron, to name some.  The future of PC games looks even nicer, with
>    great games on the horizon, like Strike Commander.
>

OK, looks like you mentioned 4 or 5 "must have" games for the PC.  Can anyone
name one for the Amiga?

> 							G.Greene
>
>
> >
> >
> >Philip McDunnough
> >philip@utstat.toronto.edu

--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy