From: rich@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Rich Schwartzman)
Subject: Re: Libertarian freedom quiz Was: Re: Libertarians
Organization: Sometimes
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:38:18 GMT

In article <C17vyu.B9n@dscomsa.desy.de> Hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
}In article <ARCHER.825.727473060@utkvm1.utk.edu>, ARCHER@utkvm1.utk.edu (T.
}Archer) writes:
}
}|>In article <C1419u.CzK@dscomsa.desy.de> hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill
}|>Hallam-Baker) writes:
}|>>|> You may have missed the point of my posting. I was providing an example 
}|>of>|>a socialist workers compensation fallacy.
}|>>
}|>>The Socialist Workers is a political party of roughly four times the size of
}|>the
}|>>US Libs and about as politicaly credible. Although they ascribe to Castro
}|>style
}|>>equal compensation regardless of effort few other Socialists consider it a
}|>>sensible idea.
}|>
}|>Where?  The Libs are the third largest party in the US, behind the Dems and 
}|>the Republicans.  Fourth is the New Alliance.  
}
}Are US Libertarians incapable of recognising that the US is not the only country
}in the world?

No, we are not incapable of recognizing this fact.  However, as a political
party on state and national levels our primary focus is the US and the
erosions of liberty here.  There is, however, the International Society
for Individual Liberty.  Perhaps someone on the net can tell you how you
can get information on that group.

}
}|>>Perhaps if the "Libertarian" Party spent a little more time arguing against
}|>the
}|>>encroachment of government on established rights a bit more and pushed their
}|>>ecconomic Utopia a little less the term would be accurate.
}|>
}|>Alas, you don't challenge them on those issues, so you never get to see 
}|>them.  As a result, the only thing that you will see in this forum is the 
}|>effort for Libs to keep what they have earned instead of consigning it to 
}|>the state for "redistribution."
}
}Libertarian party members were in any way concerned with liberty they would make
}it their business to find out about the many abuses of political liberty that
}occur in the US and elsewhere and raise them themselves. A Libertarian is
}someone who is active in the defense of liberty, not someone who merely accepts
}the government line on everything but dosen't like paying taxes.


I commend you, Phill, for finally characterizing Libertarians accurately,
in that we are defenders of and advocates for the condition of liberty.  I
suggest you find a copy of the LP Platform in which you will find our
concerns are much broader based than simply the nature and execution of tax
policies.    Should you disagree with any of the planks, then so be it.  At
least both sides of the debate will be focused on the same point.

}
}O.K. then since the "Libertarians" have asked for a quiz perhaps they could
}defend US involvement in third world regimes which oppress human rights. What is
}the "Libertarian" position on the air strikes in Iraq? Specificaly is the UN
}entitled to determine the borders of countries and is the movement of the
}Kewaiti border 1/2 Km into former Iraqui territory valid in terms of property
}rights? If the answer is yes is it nevertheless a good idea to do something
}which may be used as casum belli in the future?
}

From the 1992 LP Platform:  

"American foreign policy should seek an America at peace with the world and
the defense -- against attack from abroad -- of the lives, liberty, and
property of the American people on American soil.  Provision of such
defense must respect the individual rights of people everywhere."

Further, "We support the withdrawal of the United States government from,
and an end to its financial support for, the United Nations.  We oppose the
U.S. government participation in any world or international government.  We
oppose any treaty under which individual rights would be violated."


}Easier topics, is the US govt entitled to tap the phones of its citizens within
}its borders? Is it entitled to tap the phones of it's citizens in other
}countries? If not is there any circumstance in which it is permissible for the
}government to tap a phone?
}
}
The Libertarian Party supports and defends the fourth amendment to the US
Constitution which guarantees protection against unreasonable searches and
seizures.

To repeat what I said earlier, the application of liberty far exceeds the
issue of taxes.

}--
}
}Phill Hallam-Baker



-- 
   ---------------------------------------------
  | Richard B. Schwartzman, RBS Communications  |
  |  Media Coordinator, DE. Libertarian Party   |
  |         rich@genie.slhs.udel.edu            |
  |              (302) 455-0354                 |
   ---------------------------------------------

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