From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: People Are Nice
Date: 11 Nov 92 14:16:28 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <k3uwTB2w165w@tworaven.lonestar.org> bchan@tworaven.lonestar.org (bchan) writes:

>I don't care what anybody says. People are basically GOOD. How'd'ye like 
>THEM apples, Ayn Rand groupies? That's right, I'm sitting here claiming 
>that, left to themselves and well-fed, most humans are an amiable enough 
>lot, content to do their thing and enjoy life in peace and happiness.

If that were true, then I would not be nearly so leery of libertarian
economic and social philsophy.  However, several thousand years of
recorded history would seem to indicate that you are wrong.  

> 
>Well, I say SCREW PROFIT and SCREW WEALTH as well. I'm poor and I like 
>it, at least in terms of material wealth. My attitude: we were put here 
>to enjoy life...and that means NOT WORKING, or at least not working at a 
>"job". People should rise up in anger at the thought of toiling away all 
>day for the privelege of eating regularly.

Fine.  Then one can presume that you will go find your own free
lunches and not want those of us who work to pay for them for you? 

> 
>"Oh, but there ain't no free lunch", they'll tell you. Bullshit. That's a 
>quote from a bad science-fiction novel, not a statement of economic fact. 

First of all, I thought _The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress_ was actually
pretty good science fiction.  Secondly, economics is DEFINED to be the
study of the allocation of finite resources in a world of infinite
wants.  If you studied the field a bit you would know that.  Hence,
feel free to take the TANSTAAFL principle as not only a statement of
economic fact, but as the bedrock foundation of the whole field of
economics. 

>The fact is that enough exists RIGHT THIS MINUTE for everyone on Earth to 
>enjoy a clean, fun, healthy, and affluent lifestyle, and work less or 
>even not at all to get it. 

Sure there is, but if everyone stops working it won't be there very
long.  Now, perhaps you'd like to explain to us why people should work
to pay for your free lunch?

>A fruit tree is a perfect example of a free 
>lunch machine: give it free sunlight, your bad breath, and the waste from 
>your body, and it will go on producing FREE LUNCHES for you indefinitely. 

Assuming, of course, that no one else comes and eats all your fruit,
that the tree remains healthy and you have no bugs or pests, that you
can live on fruit alone (study some biology, chemistry, and nutrition
while you're looking in those economics books), that there is
sufficient rainfall, and that you only need to eat during the fruit
season.  Of course, the tree requires a certain amount of care to
remain healthy (talk to anyone who owns an orchard -- there's a lot
more to it than just hanging around waiting to pick the fruit).  Who's
to do all that work so you can have your free lunch?

>Just remember to spit out and bury the seeds and you've got free lunch 
>forever. We can build machines that will be our "fruit trees" and produce 
>food, housing, clothing, and toys so cheaply it will easier to just GIVE 
>them away than to sell them.

Who's to build those machines, maintain them, gather the raw
materials, produce the power, move the goods about, etc.?  Why is it
that the phrase 'totally clueless' occurs to me at this point?  Why is
it that I get the feeling that you're just a stalking horse -- perhaps
because no one could be this shallow or this stupid?

> 
>FREE LUNCH EXISTS. SIT DOWN AND EAT IT.
> 
>The world is created by us, by our dreams and efforts. It need not be a 
>dreary cycle of 9-to-5 madness in exchange for a lifetime of worry. We 
>can make the world into Hell or Heaven if we choose to. I'm betting on 
>heaven. 

Yes, it certainly is created by our efforts.  Now tell us why we
should make efforts so you can have a free lunch?

> 
>We must destroy the false god of Wealth before we can raise the human 
>spirit to its rightful place above the altar. We can do that by 
>guaranteeing every man, woman, and child a decent living as their fair 
>share of our planet, without forcing them to sell themselves as wage 
>slaves, replaceable "human resources", grist for some 
>wolf-in-human-clothing's profit mill. EVERYONE DESERVES A GOOD LIFE JUST 
>BECAUSE THEY ARE HUMAN. PERIOD.

Fine.  Now tell me why I should have to produce it for them.  It is
one thing to maintain that people who CANNOT help themselves or who
have fallen upon TEMPORARY bad times should be cared for -- which is
what I do (and what has gotten me called 'liberal', 'socialist', etc.
in this group).  It is quite another to expect that people should work
so you don't have to.

> 
>Clear enough? I'm ready. Let's join together and figure it out.

Crystal.  If you're ready, go to work.  After all, there's someone
else out there with your attitude who you think deserves an indefinite
free lunch.  You're going to have to work harder to provide for both
theirs and yours.

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
Newsgroups: tx.politics