HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dmf@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: "fj" newsgroups
Date: 24 Jan 1993 20:00:21 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: ba
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu
Summary: How to read on Mac?

I just recently started reading news again after a hiatus of a few years,
and I noticed that thee is a substantial set of "fj" newsgroups which
appear on my Mac Plus as garbage.  Presumably this garbage represents
kanji?  Does anyone out there know how I can read it?  If it requires
KanjiTalk, I've got it -- though I've never used it.

Hope someone can help

Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: tauq7@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Wai Ho)
Subject: Re: (none)
Summary: ...forget...
Organization: University of Sussex
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 10:17:05 GMT

In article <9301270804.AA25936@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU>, nozomi@YUCCA.CC.TSUKUBA.AC.JP (Ytow) writes:
>    If I want to say "don't forget Tienanmen Square", is it "Tenanmon wa
>    oboenachatta ikemasen" or "oboenakucha"?
> 
> It depends on the context.
> Most suitable answer is
> "Tenanmon wo wasureru na," = Remember Tienanmon.
> 
> Nozomi
Hello,
	How about 'Tenanmon wo wasurenai' or 'Tenanmon wo wasurenai de
kudasai' ? Please forgive me if the grammar is inappropriate in this
context.Just trying to give a suggestion and to learn the language as
well.By the way,as mentioned in the above article, does "oboenachatta
ikemasen" mean "cannot forget" ? Pointers most appreciated.

Thanks,
WM Ho
tauq7@central.sussex.ac.uk
or
tauq7@syma.sussex.ac.uk
From: BFLV@MUSICT.MCGILL.CA (BFLV)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Looking for a Japanese Word Processor For MS-DOS
Date: 22 Jan 93 01:28:47 GMT
Organization: McGill University

Could anyone tell the FTP addresses where I can find Japanese word
processors for MS-DOS or Windows ?  ThanX!


                                               M.Y.
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: knudsen@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (michael.j.knudsen)
Subject: Re: Canon Wordtank ID-8500 sold out in Japan
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 01:27:43 GMT

In article <C10nxG.88J.1@cs.cmu.edu>, tygar+@cs.cmu.edu (Doug Tygar) writes:
> In article <C0sFF4.1IC@world.std.com> cmr@world.std.com (Charles M Richmond) writes:
> >When I was in Akihabara (12/28) the 8500 was commonly available for 26000Y
> >and the 7200 for 18800Y. I was a little chagrinned, since I had paid 20000Y
> >for my 7200 a few months before. If you are at all interested in carrying

I got a 7200 in Akihabara for Y17000, about 93/1/16.  I like it except for
some complaints below.  Actually, I got it in the arcade-mall, not one of
the multi-story shops (these were very short on such devices).

> >a pocket. Note also that the 7200 can switch to English menus (except for the
> >calendar) and the 8500 only has Japanese menus.

Exactly right.  BTW, the salesclerk traded me up from some smaller models
of translators by claiming that only the 7200 had Eigo instruction book!
Without the book, you'd never find those Eigo menus.

> Another question -- a year and a half ago I saw an advertisement for an ID-8000
> (I think that was the number) which was a Wordtank for European languages
> and English.  I've never seen this in electronic shops; has anyone actually

What about the IC cards for the 7200?  Might these supply other languages,
or the database of proper names?  Anybody ever see any available?
If so, outside Nihon?

MAJOR COMPLAINT: The 7200 should allow you to find the English meaning
of any single kanji on the screen, eg, after a Radical Search.
Lack of that really lowers its value to a beginning student of Nihongo.

Also it should allow instant conversion of any displayed (whether typed
in or from a lookup) harigana to katakana to romaji, and any of the
inter-conversions thereof.

The whole machine is clearly intended for native Nihonjin, or advanced
gaijin nihongo students, rather than the reverse.  Is there an export model
better suited to non-native needs?  An IC card?

Domo -- mike k
-- 
	"I don't think so, Al"
	knudsen@iexist.att.com
From: jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Looking for sources for Japanese Linguistic Journals.
Date: 24 Jan 93 02:42:26 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Does anyone know if there would be Japanese linguistic journals
on-line anywhere?  I would be interested in any related responses?
-- 
jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
James Miller

_chicchai .sig no ho ga ichiban iin janai ka..._
             Enlightenment Happens?
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: cmr@world.std.com (Charles M Richmond)
Subject: Re: is this group about Japanese language or what?
Keywords: claims on thie newgroup
Organization: Integrated International Systems Corp. One Longfellow Place, Suite 3309, Boston, Ma.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:03:08 GMT

asano@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Yoshiteru ASANO) writes:

>I noticed that there are so many articles on computer-related matters in this
>newsgroup.  Is this the original purpose of the group?  I thought this group
>is to talk about "Japanese language", about its grammar and other 'linguistic'
>aspects of Japanese.  Am I wrong?  Is there any other newsgroup appropriate
>for talking about Japanese-related computer affairs?
>     y.a.



Asano san $B@uLn$5$s(J
We do talk about "Japanese language" , grammar , characters etc, but I would
think that this is the most appropriate group for questions about editting
and displaying the Japanese kanji and kana. If you think about it you will
realize that the ability to express and discuss Nihongo  is immeasurably
affected by the presence or absence of the ability to display and to input 
in Japanese.

One person recently had some problems with kterm. That discussion took took
all of 3 short posts and is now being conducted both offline and in 
comp.unix.ultrix. Today someone was asking for help in installing MOKE. He
is not taking up much bandwidth and I can not think of a better group for
him to post to. Perhaps you have a suggestion?

Charlie Richmond

P.S. Do you have a relative named Rikiya studying at CMU?
-- 
*****************************************************************************
*  Charles Richmond 	Integrated International Systems Corporation        *
*  cmr@world.std.com	(Temporary) cmr@koneko.shr.dec.com		    *
*  Specializing in UNIX, X, Image Processing, and Communications.           *
From: pbm@mdis2.wdl1 (Paul Melville)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: Inquiry
Keywords: Heart, Kokoro
Date: 22 Jan 93 01:10:47 GMT
Organization: /users/pbm/.organization


>   How does one say "heart," and its synonyms in
>   Japanese?

	"Heart" is often translated as "kokoro".  "Change-of-heart" kind of
thing is more like "mind" to a Japanese. i.e. we occidentals think of the
heart as the seat of emotions, whereas the Japanese consider the mind to be
the seat of emotions.  So, I've seen "kokoro" translated as "mind" by some.
"seishin" is a word used by Japanese to indicate the "spirit" or "mind" or
"life-ness" of a person.

	The "heart" in English which is poetic would usu. be "kokoro" in
Japanese

"shinzo^" is most often used to indicate the blood-pumping organ in your chest.

mmmm, What synonyms, specifically?

+   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +
Paul Melville
pbm@wdl1.wdl.loral.com
-   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
"Nomu nara noru na, Noru nara nomu na"
O-wakari-shima-haru?
Lines: 28
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 10:50:09 MST
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: What word is this??
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA
From: luke@newt.ee.byu.edu (David Luke)

In article <1993Jan26.220407.25507@Csli.Stanford.EDU> hiraga@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Yuzuru Hiraga) writes:
>In article <1993Jan26.202040.25821@wam.umd.edu> rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes:
>>	In Kawabata's Sho no syousetu (palm of hand stories)
>>	in the story "Natu to Huyu" on page 3 there is a word,
>>	"haehairazu" (with the characters for hae "fly" (the insect)
>>	and "hairu" (enters)).  Is this a screen door?
>
>Not knowing the original, the best I can guess is that it should
>be read as "hae-irazu"; and identical to what is more commonly
>known as "hae-tori-gami".
>Haetorigami is a roll of paper hung from the ceiling, with
>sticky substance (and possibly some attractor substance) on both
>sides so that a fly that touches it gest caught.
>After a few days with a number of flies on it, it's quite an ugly sight.
>I don't think you can find them much nowadays.
>
>By the way, "neko-irazu" is the name of anti-rat pesticide tablets.
>Literally, this means "cats not needed".
>If my above supposition is correct, note the asymmetry in the naming --
>here, it is flies that need get rid of.

Um, I hate to point this out, but the "iru" of "hairu" and the "iru" of
"neko ga iranai" are two different words, written with different kanji...
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  David Luke                      "There's nothing worse than a brilliant     |
|  luke@wombat.ee.byu.edu           image of a fuzzy concept."                 |
|                                                               -- Ansel Adams |
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: HIROMI@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU
Subject: Japanese wordprocessor for DOC
X-Unparsable-Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20: 33:00 TZONE
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 01:33:08 GMT

A while ago, someone mentioned on this net group the following
sharewares for DOS: NJStar and MOKE.  Could anyone tell me how I
can get these?  Also, if any of you have tried either one (or
both), let me know how they are.

Many thanks!
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: LACURE@UTKVX1.BITNET
Subject: missing subscribers to Nihongo
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 04:17:00 GMT

Dear Nihongo subscriber,

        We have had a lot of undeliverable mail on the server.
This mail bounces and fills up my mail box.  As a consequence I
have had to temporarily delete a number of subscribers:

<mgilula@MIASUN.MED.MIAMI.EDU>... User unknown
vkkang@caesi.scg.hac.com>... User unknown
<WEDZINGA@NLR.nl>... User unknown
akira@UK.AC.ED.COGSCI....User unknown
<P.Nguyen@FRPR.BULL.FR>... User unknown
<HRMTS@vax.ox.ac.uk>
<LOEBNER@DD0RUD81.BITNET>
<jayu@SOLAR.ENERGY>Host 'SOLAR.ENERGY' Unknown
sensei@SUTRO.SFSU.EDU>
cg@MS_ASPEN.hac.com
<incoming-nihongo%nttlab.ntt.jp@RELAY.CS.NET>

        If you happen to know any of these subscribers please ask
them to re-subscribe to the listserv@mitvma or contact me
directly at LACURE@UTKVX.  It could be that their address has
changed since they first subscribed or there may be problems with
gates.

        Jon W. LaCure
        manager, NIHONGO list

Jon W. LaCure / Dept. of Romance and Asian Languages and Literatures
601 McClung Tower / Univ. of Tennessee, Knoxville / Knoxville, TN
37996-0460 / bitnet: lacure@utkvx / internet: lacure@utkvx.utk.edu
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: gperkins@netcom.com (Glen C. Perkins)
Subject: Re: is this group about Japanese language or what?
Keywords: claims on thie newgroup
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:52:31 GMT

asano@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Yoshiteru ASANO) writes:

>I noticed that there are so many articles on computer-related matters in this
>newsgroup.  Is this the original purpose of the group?  I thought this group
>is to talk about "Japanese language", about its grammar and other 'linguistic'
>aspects of Japanese.  Am I wrong?  Is there any other newsgroup appropriate
>for talking about Japanese-related computer affairs?
>     y.a.

We're all computer users interested in Japanese language, so most of 
us are interested in having Japanese language on our computers.
We talk about that, grammar, Japanese puns, slang, learning
strategies... This is the place.

-- 
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------------+
|--- Glen C. Perkins ---|                                                   |
| <gperkins@netcom.com> |             "Don't forget, your mind              |
| Native Guide Software |              only *simulates* logic."             |
| Palo Alto, California |                                                   |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------------+
From: schulman@matzah.hrl.hac.com
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: mule0.96/wnn4.108/tamago
Date: 21 Jan 93 20:46:13 GMT
Reply-To: schulman@matzah.hrl.hac.com

Since I received a request to post the responses I received to my
question about inputting Kanji in mule0.9.6, here they are...

From Caltech--

	Try 

	M-x busyu-input

From Berkeley--

	Type C-\ and then C-^.  "Bushu" and "Kakusuu" inputs are the ninth and
	tenth menu items (2 and 3 on the second page if you are using a
	8-column window).

Both methods worked for me.

JOel


Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: sel1783@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Mac Japanese word processor
Reply-To: sel1783@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:47:14 GMT

Hello!  I'm new to this group so I apologize if this question has been asked 
before.

I'm looking for a japanese word processor for use on a macintosh classic II
4/80.  I'd like a program similar to Kanji-talk that converts english into
kanji and kana. I'd especially like a shareware or freenet version since
I'm just a struggling college student. 

Thank you in advance,

Sharon Lefebvre
From: butterworths@mala.bc.ca
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Jap wordprocessor for Atari???
Date: 27 Jan 93 11:53:58 -0700
Organization: Malaspina College

Looking for a Japanese word processor for Atari STe 1040.
Shareware or company name that produces it.
From: wk04975@worldlink.com (Bill Brekke)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: JWP - Japanese Word Processor for Windows 3.1
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:52:22 GMT
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
X-Mailer: WORLDLink-DOS (3.3)


	There is an alpha version of a Japanese Word processor available called JWP. I recently got it by anonymous FTP from kilroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov in 
directory \pub\misc  .  It is also available on GENIE in the Japan group  (type JAPAN at a prompt).  This is MUCH better than MOKE.  It is also very 
large.  It is in at least 6 zip files and there are some optional files and more than one alpha version of the main program.  The list of files on Genie 
differs slightly from those at the kilroy address.  I have nothing to do 
with it except I have been taking some Japanese classes and I'm into computers.

	To prevent you from having to spend hours downloading it just to 
get a general idea what it does, here's a description:

To enter hiragana, just be sure the hiragana icon is clicked "on" on the 
icon bar and type in the sounds on your regular keyboard in all lower 
case.  As soon as a full hiragana sound has been entered, such as "ni" 
the hiragan will pop up on the screen.  To enter katakana, do the same 
thing, but in all caps.  
	To enter Kanji, this is the neat part of course, begin the word with a capital 
letter and make the rest lower case.  Each letter you type causes the 
system to check to see if the letters you have typed form the longest 
kanji containing that combination of sounds.  When it does a kanji pops 
on the screen where you're typing and a list of homonyms appears across 
the bottom of the screen.  You can either accept that kanji (probably 
not the one you want) or you can choose one from the bottom instead.  
You can scroll through them with the scroll bar.  You can also get a 
definition of any of the suggested kanji by pressing F6 to help you 
choose the one you want.  If the kanji you want is a sound which is a 
subset of a longer kanji you can force the system to stop looking for 
the longest kaji containing that combination of sounds and give you what it has for that set of 
sounds by pressing F2 as you're building the Kanji.  As you're building 
the Kanji the hiragana appears on the screen in reverse video.
	You can use the pop-up dictionary to find the japanese kanji or 
kana for any English word you key in and the dictionary is always only 
F6 away.  Remember though, I said is is an Alpha version, and I've found some 
odd inconsistencies.
	The prinout is very nice and uses the windows 3.1 features so it 
will work with YOUR printer (unless you have a Diablo type!).  MOKE, the 
last time I checked only works with Epson 24 pin printers.  Apparently 
the dictionary is the same one used in MOKE, by the way.
	If you know anything about Japanese you know that you would have to 
know a good deal about Japanese to get much useful work out of this even 
with all it's conveniences.  Still, it's seems pretty awesome to me.
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: gperkins@netcom.com (Glen C. Perkins)
Subject: Re: ``Kanji Education'' paper available by anonymous-ftp
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:17:03 GMT

I find this discussion fascinating because I'm VERY interested in
coming up with a prioritized list of kanji, prioritized by
frequency of use in "real life." Of course "real life" is different
from person to person, but I'd love to obtain the results of a
study such as this.

Follow a typical sarariiman for a few days. Notice all the kanji
he is exposed to: on the TV screen while eating breakfast, in
the subway on all the ads, in his morning newspaper (or manga!),
on the documents he reads at work, on his menu at lunch, etc.
Do everything you can to determine what his real use of kanji is.

Then repeat the study with his wife. Then his college-age daughter.

Of course, this will depend on where they live (subway signs),
where he works, what his daughter's major is, etc., but a few
of these studies would be a pretty good indicator of where the
gaijin should begin and how to proceed. What are the characters
that are relatively constant for every "real life"? Which vary
the most widely?

The study should also be done for vocabulary. (Ohh, that one's
nearly impossibly tough to do, what with transcribing
conversations and other non-printed sources of "real language.")
What a fantastic resource that would be for students, though.

The curve you keep seeing over and over again is described by
"Zipf's Law" which was further modified by Benoit Mandelbrot.
It's a tremendously powerful concept, but you need good data
to take advantage of it.

If anyone knows of other sources of good frequency data for
Japanese vocab. or kanji, let us all know!
-- 
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------------+
|--- Glen C. Perkins ---|                                                   |
| <gperkins@netcom.com> |             "Don't forget, your mind              |
| Native Guide Software |              only *simulates* logic."             |
| Palo Alto, California |                                                   |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: kschwarz@netcom.com (Kenneth L. Schwarz)
Subject: Sorting Japanese
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 20:42:14 GMT

Does anyone know how sorts are implemented on lists of Japanese words?
For example, let's say we have a database with 10 fields per record, and
these records contain Roman characters, kanji, or kana, or any combination
thereof.  If we want to be able to sort this database with any of the fields as
the sort key, what do we do?

I know that in Japan telephone books are sorted by aiueo jun (that is, by the
phonetic order of a kana matrix.)  And CDs are sorted in a similar way
in record stores.  So it seems likely that a phonetic sort is the most 
useful organization for human's to deal with.

But that would not be so for computers.  Sorting kanji by stroke count is
easy:  there is one and only one stroke count for any particular glyph.
But to do a phonetic sort would require that the algorithm recognize the
particular reading of the character in context.  This is a bear of a
problem.

Still, there must be ways that Japanese databases handle such problems.
Anybody know how it's done?

	- Ken
	  kschwarz@netcom.com
From: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: Postscript fonts for Mac/HP LJ ?
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:03:04 GMT
Reply-To: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN

In article <4500006@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, okamoto@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Jeff 
Okamoto) writes:
> cov@spa3.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Richard Covington) asks:
> > Can anyone tell me what the state of postscript Japanese fonts is?
> > If they exist, do you know where I could get them and if I need
> > special printer drivers to use them?
> 
> The only place to get Japanese PostScript fonts right now is Adobe's
> ATM-J.  It costs about $250 and has an extremely obnoxious one-time-only
> installation.
> 
> The marketing folks at MacWorld didn't seem to realize what a big
> opportunity they missed.


	If you're using a PostScript printer and just need Type 1's for your
Mac, then there's something like 20 companies currently supplying or
developing fonts which have Kanji, Hiragana, and Katakana characters.

	FontWorks, FontBank, and NMI leap immediately to mind.

	If there's something special about the printer you're using which
requires you to have a font cassette or something like that then of course
your choices will be more limited.  For printing to PS printers which can
take the double-byte fonts, however, all you need is System 6.0.7.1-J or 
the new release of the Japanese 7.0 system.  I use both at work with a
couple of different "Kanji" printers and have had few problems.

	I do, however, take exception to Apple's solution to printing the 
double-byte TrueTypes from System 7.x.  Essentially, the driver sends
them to the printer as bitmaps -- if you're printing on anything more than
600 dpi they look noticibly chunky.  Some are even truncated.  Make sure
you have a barf-bag handy if you try them past 1000 dpi.

	As Jeff Okamoto says, it would have been nice to have seen more
attention paid to Japanese-language products at Mac World.

	Ciaran.

----------
Ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org                    NOT an LM SpokesBeing

"... hey but I don't care 'cause sometimes I said sometimes I hear
  my voice and it's been HERE silent all these years" -- TORI AMOS
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan