HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: RSPEIRS@130.187.170.178 (RON SPEIRS)
Subject: Perfect Pitch Ability - Questions
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:23:21 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

I hope that this newsgroup is appropriate for this question.
I have always been interested in the ability called "Perfect Pitch".  As I
understand it, it is the ability of a person to recognize and identify a
note of the 12-tone scale, and to reproduce by humming or singing any note
of the scale.  Related to this, "Relative Pitch" ability would be the ability
of a person to recognize intervals and chords, and to hum or sing intervals
correctly.

Has anyone published any research on this subject?  My specific questions are:
1.  Is this ability always innate (people born with it)?
2.  Can it be learned later in life?
3.  What percentage of the population has this ability?
4.  Is it heriditary?  Is it a product of the environment?
5.  If a person has this ability, is it ever lost later in life?
6.  If a person is "tone-deaf" (common term for a person who can't sing
    intervals correctly or recognize tones), can this person develop relative
    or perfect pitch ability?

A little of my background:  From my earliest recollection, I had Perfect Pitch
and Relative Pitch ability.  It was never taught to me.  I started piano
lessons at age 5 and continued them until age 12 when we moved too far from
my teacher.  I did not pursue a musical career, but I still play the piano
a little and enjoy listening to classical music.  The only "formal" musical
training past my childhood piano lessons were classes in music appreciation
and music theory taken while studying Electrical Engineering in college.
My parents did not have this ability, although my dad had a good "ear" for
music and could sometimes tell when I made a mistake while practicing the 
piano.  My mother, bless her heart, can't "carry a tune in a bucket".  When
I was about age 4 or 5, she would try to sing to me.  I would reply, 
"Mommy, you're singing off key".  We still get a laugh recalling those
memories.

Any comments or references would be appreciated.

Ron Speirs, Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, Utah

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: bryan@netcom.com (Bryan Higgins)
Subject: Re: Stravinsky, Gesualdo
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 06:23:09 GMT

leighann@rocky.sybase.com (Leigh Ann Hussey) writes:

>Many years (like 10) back, I saw a recording in a store, which appeared to
>be Stravinsky arrangements of pieces by Gesualdo, or something like that --
>anyway the names of the two composers figured prominently on the cover
>(which, as I recall, was silver metallic).  Has anybody seen this album?

I've got it.  It's a collection of Gesualdo's madrigals, one keyboard piece,
and one piece by Stravinsky entitled "Monumentum pro Gesualdo" for orchestra,
a kind of Gesualdo pastiche.  A Columbia Special Products LP, I'm sure long
out of print.

The madrigals, conducted by Robert Craft and featuring one person on a part
(including Marilyn Horne) are quite good performances.  In tune!  These same
recordings also appeared on another Columbia recording of Gesualdo madrigals
only.

The Stravinsky piece is quite short, but an interesting curiosity.
-- 
Bryan Higgins, Berkeley, California  (bryan@netcom.com)
From: r_mcdon@pavo.concordia.ca (Bob McDonald)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Requesting info:
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:17:00 GMT

Organization: Concordia University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

I am looking for some information and if anyone could respond to my
request via E-Mail or a post it would be greatly appreciated.

I am trying to get a complete list of all the works of the following
artists with relevant Opus, K, etc. numbers to identify the order
of publication. The composers are;

Antonio Vivaldi
Johann Sebastian Bach
George Frideric Haldel
Joseph Haydn
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
Ludwig van Beethoven
Franz Schubert
Felix Mendelssohn
Frederic Chopin
Robert Schumann
Giuseppe Verdi
Peter Tchaikovsky
Richard Strauss
Holst

If the above information could be provided I would greatly appreciate it.
As well maybe there already exists a book or some documentation regarding
the above, if this is so please refer me to the book: Author, ISBN etc.

As well I would like to know if there exists a complete set of CD's on all of
any of the above-mentioned composers works and if so who is the 
performer and who produces the CD.



Thank you in advance to anyone who responds to this request.

			Robert McDonald

			R_MCDON@PAVO.CONCORDIA.CA
			(Internet)
From: gordon@dcs.exeter.ac.uk (Gordon Watson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: HAYDN
Date: 9 Nov 92 10:01:48 GMT
	<hudu.721036905@well.sf.ca.us>
Organization: Computer Unit, University of Exeter, UK

>>>>> On 6 Nov 92 08:01:45 GMT, hudu@well.sf.ca.us (Scott Marley) said:

Scott> Just to take two obvious examples, Haydn was depending on his
Scott> audience hearing the key changes and therefore following his
Scott> modulations; I doubt that one person in a thousand hears key
Scott> changes now, 200 years of increasing chromaticism later.  And
Scott> Haydn was also counting on his audience following the
Scott> forms--sonata form, theme and variations, whatever.

Scott> A lot of
Scott> the pleasure of listening to Haydn lurks in the way he leads
Scott> you to expect one thing and gives you another, but if you
Scott> aren't paying close enough attention to the shape of the music
Scott> to have your expectations raised as to what you're about to
Scott> hear next, you can't enjoy the difference of what you actually
Scott> *do* hear next.

I like Haydn, but I'm one of your 999 persons out of a 1000 who can't
hear key changes.  Can someone tell me and the other 998 how to learn?
--
Gordon Watson
 UNIX Systems Manager
  Department of Computer Science
   University of Exeter
From: u6404369@ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Piano Show-Piece
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:33:01 +1100
Organization: The University of Melbourne

Hi,
   I think this has been discussed before, but since I haven't 
read this newsgroup for a long time, I will mention it again.
 
Does anyone know of any good classical pieces for piano, that sound and/or 
look virtuoso but are not so hard to play. I am at the technical 
level of pieces such as Mozart sonatas etc.

The piece should be musically interesting, but not dull like a Czerny 
study etc. In other words, a show-piece.

Any suggestions ?
Please do not e-mail me.

Thanks very much.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: lungtt@gus5.ecn.purdue.edu (Terence T. Lung)
Subject: Re: Any Classical Music Suggestions
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: rec
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 04:52:29 GMT

In article <DINESH.92Nov9215126@civic.ece.cmu.edu> dinesh@civic.ece.cmu.edu (Dinesh D. Gaitonde) writes:
>
>I am a newcomer to Western Classical Music. I just bought a CD with
>Mozart's 'Eine Kline Nachtmusik' (sp?) and was very impressed. I would
>like to explore more. Any suggestions? Please note that I am newcomer
>and suggest accordingly.
>
>Thanks in advance
>dinesh

Apparently, you like Mozart.  Go watch the movie 'Amadeus.'
It's a nice sampling--kind of long of course.  If you enjoyed
Warner Bro's cartoons, you'll like Rossini's overtures like
Guilliaume Tell (The Lone Ranger), Barber of Seville (Bugs
torturing Elmer on the Barber chair), etc.  Fantasia's also
another neat way to get a sampling (Beethoven's 6th Symphony,
Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D minor, Dukas' Sorcerer's Apprentice,
etc.).  Back to Mozart, you may remember the overture to the
Marriage of Figaro throughout the Eddie Murphy/Dan Akyroyd movie
Trading Places.  Then there's Mendelssohn's Italian Symphony in
Breaking Away.  Bo Derek did a number with Ravel's Bolero a few
years ago in '10.'  If you go to Six Flags in Cincinnati, 
Brahms' Hungarian Rhapsody blasts at you all day.  Let's see,
what else might you enjoy right off the bat?...
Barber's Adagio Op 11 -- Platoon
Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue -- United Airlines' commercials
Bernstein's Overture to Candide -- wonderful American 20th century piece

ahhh... that's plenty.
Terence
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: CPE Bach, Wq. 182
Date: 13 Nov 92 21:00:34 GMT
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <2B03D8EE.21400@news.service.uci.edu> jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu (John R. Dooley) writes:
>Also, any comment or comparison between these and
>his later symphonies would also be appreciated.  I've heard
>at least two of the Wq 182 pieces and enjoyed them
>immensely.  My question is whether the inspiration
>(admittedly a difficult and subjective measure) grew
>as he experimented with the symphony or if the
>ideas in Wq 182 include his main innovations.

CPE Bach was such an innovator that no set of six pieces could sum
up even a small portion of his ideas.  He did all kinds of interesting
things with the symphony and the keyboard sonata; you have lots of 
pleasurable exploring ahead of you!

Roger
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dmc@tcs.com (Deirdre McClure)
Subject: Re: KDFC - a question.
Reply-To: dmc@tcs.com
Organization: Teknekron Communications Systems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 23:04:04 GMT


I can't STAND listening to the radio in the Bay Area.  I'm really
frustrated that the menu is 95% music written by heretofore unknown (with
good reason) baroque and classical composers, with a little
Albinoni and Vivaldi thrown in for good measure.
  
I want *real* radio. Something written after 1920 that isn't the
Barber Adagio. That canned announcer has probably never said
Messeian - or Riley or Glass or Schwantner, for that matter.

grrrrrr.

Deirdre McClure
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Glenn Gould Collection video
From: sowhat@gphs.vuw.ac.nz (Christian Zick)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 23:31:44 GMT
Organization: Institute of Geophysics, Victoria University of Wellington, NZ

In article <51rH03Zjb8MQ00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com>, jzl10@uts.amdahl.com (Jay Lee) writes:
> I saw the Sony's 13 VHS tape and 7 Laserdisc issue of GG's performance
> recording appearing in record/video stores (Towers) in California.  Does
> anyone know how good these things are?  Are they worth to consider buying
> a LD player this time, since the LD set is cheaper and would probably be
> better quality and last longer?
> 
> Also, does anyone know why in the world they are issued in MONO sound track?
> 
> Jay Lee
> jzl10@uts.amdahl.com

How much do they cost in the US? I just received a quotation from a Wellington/
New Zealand dealer saying about 70 $NZ (=120$US) PER LD !!!. This is the PAL
TV format, however. May be your NTSC market is bigger, and, thus, NTSC discs
cheaper. The VHS, lousy poor quality, would be much cheaper.

I know that there are multi-disc players on the market (Pioneer, I think) which
eat both CDs and LDs. This would be a good reason to go for the LDs, in particular, since the LD, for me personally, fits better into my LP+CD shelves
than a video. And I never liked things on tape, too.

The reason for the mono edition may be found (1) in the original mono recording,
but, more important (2) in the readability of these LDs in different types
of LD players. This is a mere assumption. I don`t have my LD technical info
material with me - it is in Germany - so I can't verify it in detail.

Christian Zick
sowhat@gphs.vuw.ac.nz

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: marca@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Marc Andreessen)
Subject: Re: HAYDN (& unrelated, Bax)
	<1992Nov9.170657.19854@spang.Camosun.BC.CA>
	<hudu.721387565@well.sf.ca.us>
Organization: Nat'l Center for Supercomputing Applications
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 13:10:11 GMT

In article <hudu.721387565@well.sf.ca.us> hudu@well.sf.ca.us (Scott
Marley) writes:

   As far as recommendations go, I think a great place to start would
   be the op. 76 string quartets.  I like the Takacs Quartet's
   recording a lot.

Also the Endellion Quartet on Virgin (for Op 54 & 74) is superb.

   As for period instrument performances, I like the Salomon Quartet's
   recordings of the string quartets a lot; they've recorded op. 20,
   71, and 74, and an op. 33 set is supposed to be on the way.

According to the liner notes for Op 20, ``Op 33, Compact Discs
CDA66681/2 (2 records, available separately)''.  Haven't seen 'em yet,
though.

While I'm posting, I'll pitch in another question -- can someone
experienced in these things tell me what Arnold Bax's music is like?
I've been hearing good things about the cycle of symphonic works on
Chandos by Bryden Thomson, but I've never actually heard the music.
To be blunt, I know he started composing about the time I usually
consider music to have gone to hell.

Marc

--
Marc Andreessen
Software Development Group
National Center for Supercomputing Applications
marca@ncsa.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Cimarosa sonatas
From: hanly@brandonu.ca
Date: 10 Nov 92 14:22:38 CST
Organization: Brandon University, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

There is a delightful set of 31 short sonatas by Domenico Cimarosa
played by Donatella Failoni on a Hungaraton CD. These seem to me
be neglected pieces and are delightful little gems. Anyone else any
opinion on these early sonatas? Some of them sound as if they might
be suitable for the person who was looking for piano music. Cimarosa
died around 1800 I believe.

Cheers, Ken Hanly
From: elkies@kovalevskaia.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Ridiculous stretches [Re: Chopin's hands, etc.]
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:21:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Nov12.132130.17376
Organization: Harvard Math Department

In article <EIJKHOUT.92Nov12122942@cupid.cs.utk.edu>
eijkhout@cupid.cs.utk.edu (Victor Eijkhout) writes:
>Not all tenths are created equal. If you can play C-E, you may
>not be able to play D-F# or Ab-C. [...]

Right, and conversely C#-E is even easier...

>By the way, does anyone know in what piece the incredible
>Db-F-Ab-Db-F stretch appears? That one is beyond me.

No idea, but the piano part of Franck's Violin Sonata has
in the first movement such monstrosities as E-A-C#-E-A in the
right hand and E-E-Bb and even E-E-B-B in the left hand
(I kid you not --- and the RH is otherwise occupied, so
can't help out)!  Maybe Franck thought he was still writing
for the organ?

--Noam D. Elkies (elkies@zariski.harvard.edu)
  Dept. of Mathematics, Harvard University
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Subject: Re: Dummies (was Re: Bad Brahms)
Originator: brad@buck
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 17:30:01 GMT


In article <ykr1lcf@rpi.edu>, mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd Michel McComb) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov12.235644.2609@viewlogic.com> Bradford Kellogg writes:
|> >I think it is implicit in this forum that the use of any superlatives
|> >are accompanied by an IMHO.
|> 
|> Yes.  This is exactly what we need.  And let's put a :-) in every sentence
|> too.  That way we can be absolutely sure that we are giving our own opinions
|> and not someone else's.  We can't be too careful!
|> 
Apparently not. Even my use of the word IMPLICIT was evidently not enough.
You're agreeing with me, but it seems you intended to disagree with what
you thought I was saying, whereas my intended meaning was the very same
as the meaning I think you intend by disagreeing with what you thought
was my meaning, which in fact it was not.

Sometimes this can be a real struggle. Time for a new thread.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: KDFC - a question.
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:15:55 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.002551.7076@netcom.com>, tomrice@netcom.com (Tom R. Rice) writes:
> ca_ac@gsbacd.uchicago.edu writes:
> 
> 
> >piece, then it is indeed "Liebesleid" or "Love's Sorrow" as it is commonly
> >translated. The foil is the other piece by Kreisler called "Liebesfreud" or
> >"Love's Joy".
> 
> 	By golly, you're right; I've learned something and Mr. Ledine
> 	was unjustly maligned!  After 50 years of listening to inept
> 	radio announcers, all of whom called it "Liebeslied", I never
> 	thought 'twas anything else and never bothered to look it up,
> 	not really being a Kreisler fan.  

Which doesn't mean that we haven't all heard announcements of Brahms's
"Liebesleider" waltzes (leider).
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Velde Francois)
Subject: Re: It's in the wrists.
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 13:06:51 GMT

In article <1dmo02INNt8h@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes) writes:
>
>In article <1992Nov9.150713.4035@math.ucla.edu> pugh@pico.math.ucla.edu (David Pugh) writes:
>>I don't ever remember Liszt having hands that big. Rachmaninov could...
>
>That's OK.  Hardly anybody living today remembers Liszt at all  :-)
>-- 

I think a plaster cast of Liszt's hand was made (I am sure I saw it on
the cover of some recording). I don't know where it is, but it is possible
to find out how large his hands were.

-- 

	Francois Velde

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: Charles.R.Hohenstein.1@nd.edu  (Charles R. Hohenstein)
Subject: Prokofiev, Romeo, Maazel/Cleveland
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Organization: University of Notre Dame
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:34:23 GMT

I have been attempting to purchase the Maazel/Cleveland recording of the
complete Romeo and Juliet ballet on London, but it seems to be out of
print. Does anyone know where I could obtain a copy? I.e., have you seen it
lately in your favorite shop? I have been looking for it in the Chicago
area for some time now, with no success.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: alexande@borland.com (Mark Alexander)
Subject: Re: Brahms symphonies question
Originator: alexande@genghis.borland.com
Organization: Borland International
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:14:38 GMT

Robert Martino writes:
>However, my disappointment had faded by the end of the concert after
>they played Brahms Piano Quintet in F-minor (Op.34) because I
>was simply amazed by it.

I like the Barry Douglas/Tokyo Quartet recording of the Op. 34, but
some critics found it anemic.  I guess it depends one what you grew up
with.

But for me, the real prizes on this CD are the solo piano pieces: the
Ballade Op. 10/4, and three selections from the Op. 116 Fantasies.  It
was Douglas's performance of the Op. 116/4 that inspired me to learn
to play the piano again.  (Too bad RCA hasn't seen fit to record Douglas
playing some more Brahms solo stuff; I heard him play the Op. 118 pieces
and the rarely heard C major Sonata, Op. 1, and it was wonderful.)

I think you'll find the Brahms chamber music and solo pieces to be
every bit as satisfying as the symphonies, if not more so.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Velde Francois)
Subject: Re: KDFC - a question.
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:22:13 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.180832.4429@eos.arc.nasa.gov> dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov (David Paul Encisco) writes:

>Actually with such a diverse area you would think that the Bay
>Area would have an excellent classical (noncommercial) radio station.
>We don't! KDFC and KKHI are "pop-classical" stations with too many
>degrading and insulting commercials. 
>The Bay Area is
>hurting for a good classical station, one with personality, and not
>one of these preprogramed "monotonic" announced stations with damn
>march music at 8 a.m. every week day.

Agreed. A (meager?) consolation in my move from SF to Baltimore was to find 
at least 4 classical stations in the area, one at least without commercials.

KKHI is the better of the two (the announcers have some personnality),
but their mental block on vocal and chamber music was really irritating.

But... I kinda liked the morning march... Nothing like John Philip
Souza and a good cup of espresso to get you started in the morning...
And then, at 4PM, another Souza march, and another cup of espresso, to
pick you up... I got used to the regimen, and I miss it.


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: lrm28@cas.org ()
Subject: PDQ Bach sheet music request  THANK YOU!!!!!
Summary: boy, is the mail box full!!!
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:39:51 GMT

Within three hours of posting, I received the publisher (T. Presser in
Bryn Mawr, PA), a dealer in FL (Heads House of Music) and two references
for Carl Fischer Music in IL (800-621-4496).  I _knew_ the Usenet
would come through for me.

Thanks to all who responded.  Now back to "Bernstein does 2 Live Crew".
-- 
Luke Mayercin  lrm28@cas.org  "Why does ear wax taste like it does?"
Chemical Abstracts Service is not responsible for these comments.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: tomrice@netcom.com (Tom R. Rice)
Subject: Re: KDFC - a question.
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 00:25:51 GMT

ca_ac@gsbacd.uchicago.edu writes:


>piece, then it is indeed "Liebesleid" or "Love's Sorrow" as it is commonly
>translated. The foil is the other piece by Kreisler called "Liebesfreud" or
>"Love's Joy".

	By golly, you're right; I've learned something and Mr. Ledine
	was unjustly maligned!  After 50 years of listening to inept
	radio announcers, all of whom called it "Liebeslied", I never
	thought 'twas anything else and never bothered to look it up,
	not really being a Kreisler fan.  

	It's a shame we never hear the "L-freud" piece.  Perhaps it
	has suffered an untimely Liebestod.

	thanks for the correction,
	trr
-- 
"Start off every day with a smile and get it over with."  --W.C.Fields
Tom R. Rice   WB6BYH                   Holler Observatory - 
tomrice@netcom.com                     Longitude:  121 d  30 m  20 s W 
CIS: 71160,1122                        Latitude:    37 d  25 m  10 s N 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Subject: Re: Best recording of "1812 Overture"?
Reply-To: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:59:05 GMT

In article <92317.082805RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET> Robert Haskins <RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET> writes:
>gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes:
>> ||: THE TELARC RECORDING OF THE 1812 IS NOT GOOD :||
>>
>> Now that we've gotten that out of the way, let me tell you why.
>
>And he does so very impressively.  He neglects, however, to include
>what is, at least to me, the reddest red light of all in the case of
>this recording:  Erich (Mr. "Pops Pap") Kunzel's conducting.  Ick.

Hey!  The *FIRST* thing I said was that "musically, it is simply
blah."  I don't know about you, but that's a fair condemnation.


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical