HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (Ugga de Boogidie)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian <> Asian-American
Date: 29 Jul 1992 18:05:20 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: thedarktower.corp.sun.com
Keywords: underdog (for those who have killfiles)



		ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) :
		> ...  Some of us have studied
		> Asian languages or culture and history in college, 
		> but that's IT. CULTURAL AND LINGUISTIC KNOWLEDGE IS 
		> NOT GENETIC.

	underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) :
	> But Mr. Hu, Chinese-cu morons don't understand that simple fact.
	> They think that ethnicity = culture.  In other words, Chinese-cu
	> twits think like rednecks, Klansmen, and Nazis.

Your last sentence would imply that the Chinese are following the example
of the rednecks, etc. but in another article you said it was the other
way around. Remember the - and I'm paraphrasing - "the rednecks are doing
it cause they've probably observed some Chinese-cu doing it."

		Alan Hu:
		> In every sense of the
		> word, we are red-blooded, full-bodied, real, live, 
		> honest-to-God AMERICANS, with ALL the rights and 
		> responsibilities thereunto appertaining.
		> Yet, from the moment of our birth, we are told, thanks 
		> to our genes,	that we are second-rate foreigners who 
		> don't belong here, that we're worthless, that we're not 
		> REAL Americans.

	Dwight Joe:
	> Yeah, but Mr. Hu should at least understand the ignorance of those
	> rednecks.  Those idiots are only reiterating what Chinese-cu assholes
	> keep saying.

So which is it? Who's learning from who? 

Btw, there is nothing "to understand" about prejudice and bigotry whether 
it be from rednecks or a Chinese person. 

Dwight, you're mistaken if you believe rednecks and the KKK learned their
bigotry from the Chinese. Rednecks and the KKK have learned it all on
their own.

	Melinda
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: gwu@nujoizey.tcs.com (George Wu)
Subject: Re: Year of the Dragon (Re: Asian American Media Image)
Organization: Teknekron Communications Systems Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 01:16:32 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.182352.27795@leland.Stanford.EDU>, underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
> 
> I was not referring to just the criminal elements highlighted by
> the show.

     For reasons which will soon be clear, I'd like to draw your
attention to the preceding sentence.

> I was referring to the entire milieu of the scenes.
> There was one scene where a Chinese-American (born overseas) shows
> the cops the two dead bodies of the Chinese-Americans murdered
> by the Chinese-cu thugs.  The idiot says, aloud, (paraphrased)
> "I've been working here for the better part of my life.  When
> I was young, I had respect for others.  (pointing at the dead
> bodies) These boys had no respect.  They just copied the white
> guys, taking and selling drugs.  Doing all kinds of crap.  
> And now look at what happens."
> 
> What the idiot doesn't realize is that the culture responsible for
> the deaths of those two boys was Chinese-cu culture.

     Again, please draw your attention to the preceding sentence.  In
what way is Chinese culture responsible for the deaths of these two?
They were killed by the criminal organization portrayed in the film as
intent upon expanding their drug distribution territory.

     These two sentences show that Dwight Joe *is* representing the
criminal activities of the Chinese-Americans portrayed as typical of
Chinese culture.  Such representations are incorrect, and betray an
inexcusable racial hatred on Dwight Joe's part.

						George

----
George J Wu, Software Engineer         | gwu@tcs.com or uunet!tcs!gwu
Teknekron Communications Systems, Inc. | (510) 649-3700
2121 Allston Way, Berkeley, CA, 94704  | Never be the first to believe . . .
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: achin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin)
Subject: Re: Doonesbury this week
Originator: achin@math
Organization: Texas A&M University, Dept of Mathematics
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 00:17:37 GMT

Since everyone seems to be missing *my* point (points, actually),
I probably should have made them in the original post:

1.  Trudeau reinforces the misperception that Asian-Americans
    are taking over and running away with all the goodies, when
    the fact is that National Merit Scholars are the exception
    among Asian-Americans, not the rule.  ("Asian-Americans are
    winning all the scholarships!  What could they possibly have
    to complain about?")

2.  I for one resent having my scholastic achievements used as
    an object lesson for Caucasian students to study harder.
    They were the product of Real American public schools, and
    are an asset to Real America, not a threat.

But seeing as these points were too subtle for s.c.a.a, what
hope would I have with Trudeau?
-- 
Andrew Chin    Dept. of Math.    Texas A&M U.    College Station, TX 77843
achin@math.tamu.edu   Probably not TAMU's exact opinions.   (409) 845-1924
                * Fighting racism is not a special interest *
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: lchsu@cayley.waterloo.edu (Leon C. Hsu)
Subject: Re: Pencil-twirling (was Re: Self-examination)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:48:48 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.224325.29231@oakhill.sps.mot.com> jpak@manute.sps.mot.com writes:
>[My face is green with envy right now]
>
>AAAUUUGGHHHH!!!!!  I can't stand this!  Right after I read this, I tried
>twirling my pen in my hand several times.  I can't even get a half-revolution
>going.  What the hell's the matter with me?  You have no idea how worthless
>I feel right now.  No idea whatsoever...

Jim ... keep at it ... pretty quick meant that within a couple weeks I
could twirl my pencil, after maybe 15 minutes a day of flying pencils.
It is easier to start on a brand new pencil, nice and long, with an 
eraser. They are balanced well.

Good Luck!

-leon.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: skmathur@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Sameer Mathur)
Subject: Re: Perfect Families
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:12:53 GMT

In article <4572@dove.nist.gov> hira@cme.nist.gov writes:
>With the discussions about degree envy, one thing kept coming to mind.
>Every Asian-Indian family that I meet likes to put on a front that 
>their family is perfect and that everyone in it is doing exceptionally
>well. Its like they'll never admit any faults to you, which is quite
>the opposite of what most white people I've met do. This is one of 
>the reasons that I have trouble sustaining friendships with Indians.
>They never let their guard down, and you always feel like you're in
>competition with one another.
>

I don't quite agree.  In my experience, the "front" you speak of is only
held up by the parents, not the second-generation Indians.  In fact, I find
it easier to sustain friendships with other Indians because we can relate
to each other much better because of this common exposure to the "my son is
doing better than your son" syndrome and many others.

The only time I feel like I'm in competition with other Indians is when I
go home and my mother tells me about so and so doing this and that.  There's
always that unspoken message that I have to top so and so's
accomplishments.  But once I go back to school, all that is left behind
until my next visit home.


Sameer K. Mathur
skmathur@nwu.edu
From: edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Pencil-twirling (was Re: Self-examination)
Keywords: pencil-twirling
Date: 30 Jul 92 21:14:48 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The RAND Corporation

I've done this since college.  I was a math major, if that has anything
to do with it.  It seems that I spent a lot of time looking at problems
with pencil in hand but not actually writing.  Twirling it just seemed
to be a natural thing to do...  I never noticed anyone else doing it
until later.

		-Ed Hall
		edhall@rand.org
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: hlee@unixg.ubc.ca (Henry Lee)
Subject: Re: Asking someone his "nationality" (Today's "Dear Abby")
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 03:58:56 GMT

In article <13087.2a708701@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> luk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
>In article <3637@randvax.rand.org>, edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall) writes:
>> In article <131394@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov writes:
>>>I think that's very foolish of him to ask that question since only US
>>>citizens can work in government research labs.
>> 
>> If I'm not mistaken, this is no longer an absolute requirement for NIST,
>> although I've little doubt it is for LLNL.
>> 
>> In any case, even innocent questions can be asked in malicious ways.
>> And the fact that it was the "chief" and not someone in personnel who
>> asked the question /is/ strange.  I don't blame Mr. Hira for feeling
>> harrassed.
>
>I was in Livermore National Lab and found out US citizenship is not 
>required for some permanent positions. Besides, foreign students with 
>F1 visa etc. can be postdoc in government research labs. 

Really?  This *is* good to know - may come in really handy in a few years.  :-)

----
  Henry Lee			<lee@physics.ubc.ca>	Cosmic Microwave 
  Dept. of Physics, U.B.C.	<hlee@unixg.ubc.ca>	Background Balloon
  Vancouver, B.C.		                    	Anisotropy Measurement
  Canada  V6T 1Z1		(604) UBC-6709	    (Launch : fall93/spring94)
From: edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asking someone his "nationality" (Today's "Dear Abby")
Date: 24 Jul 92 13:51:18 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The RAND Corporation

In article <4465@dove.nist.gov> hira@cme.nist.gov writes:
>I had just finished my hour long presentation and answered questions, and 
>the next thing to do was to meet with the chief. The first question that
>came out of his mouth was, "Are you a US citizen?" I was pretty taken
>aback, but didn't retort anything (something I regret). I'm an asian 
>indian who was born and raised in the US, and shit like this pisses me
>off, but white friends shrug it off like its his job to ask me that 
>question. Who wants to bet that he *never* asks white applicants that 
>question? 

It might not be the "chief" who asks the question, but anyone at a
government lab will get asked about their citizenship at some point.  It
can have a direct influence on just what projects someone can work on,
since even some of the most innocuous-sounding stuff might require a
security clearance.  Only a government bureaucrat could understand why...

When I first came to RAND (which is quasi-governmental) it was one
of the first questions I was asked.

		-Ed Hall
		edhall@rand.org
From: ahsiung@bbn.com (Anita Hsiung)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Korean Views on Race (Re: LA Times. 7-13-92 [long])
Date: 29 Jul 92 21:27:50 GMT
Reply-To: ahsiung@labs-n.bbn.com (Anita Hsiung)
Distribution: na
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

Mike Fester writes:
>Dwight Joe writes:
>
>>citizenship.   Japan almost won't do it.  Even the USA wouldn't concede to such
>>outrageous demands.  But the Korean gov't is insisting that the Japanese
>
>The US DOES in fact recognize dual citizenship, if the other nation recognizes
>it as well. 

The United States does not recognize dual citizenship.  It is stated
very clearly when you apply for naturalization that you give up all
privileges and rights you had from your country of origin.  They
emphasize that again at the actual oath-taking.

	-- Anita --

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Anita Hsiung       | "I know I'm the best there is,                     |
| ahsiung@bbn.com    |  But all they want is a show.                      |
| BBN Canoga Park    |  Well that's all right, I'll be glad to oblige,    |
| California, USA    |  SRO, SRO!"		- Freddie                 |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: rtang@sunee.waterloo.edu (The One Your Mother Warned You About!)
Subject: Re: Dear Abby Letter:  Draft #2
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 06:47:32 GMT

In article <24916@dog.ee.lbl.gov> kevin@daffy.ee.lbl.gov (Kevin Gong) writes:
>Sincerely,
>	The Members of Soc. Culture Asian American
            ^^^^^^^^ Participants(?)
>	(SCAA is a nationwide forum for discussion of Asian American issues)
		   ^^^^^^^^^^ (International!)
>
>Member			Affiliation
>------			-----------
>Peter Chou		University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
>Kerry Go		Rice University
>Kevin Gong		University of California at Berkeley
>Ed Hall			RAND Corporation
>Alan Hu			Stanford University
>Kyung Yun Kwak		CWRU
>Jim Pak
>Judy Tseng		University of California at Berkeley
>Patsy Wang		Hewlett Packard
>George Wu		Teknekron Communications Systems, Inc.

RT
From: kevin@daffy.ee.lbl.gov (Kevin Gong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Dear Abby Letter:  Draft #2
Date: 27 Jul 1992 06:00:07 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley
Distribution: na
Reply-To: kevin@daffy.ee.lbl.gov (Kevin Gong)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.112.42
Summary: please mail comments/suggestions

Please mail me your comments, suggestions for changes, etc.
If you would like to be listed in the final letter we send off, send me e-mail.
(or, if I have mistakenly included your name, please send me e-mail)

My comments:
	- what do you think of the 3rd paragraph now?  (esp. the 2nd sentence)
	- does 'soc' stand for "society" or "sociology" or ...?
	- I know "member" is not accurate, but I figure it's too hard to
		explain in so few words...

 - kevin

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
DEAR ABBY:

This is in response to the debate over asking a person's ethnicity.  You
mentioned a man with "Asian features" who was asked "Where are you from?"
He replied, "Cincinnati," and you seemed to imply that he was purposely
avoiding the question and was offended that someone might ask him his
ethnicity.  This is not necessarily the case!

Asian Americans are generally not offended at all to reveal their ethnicity.
However, Asian Americans are AMERICANS.  So, when an American is asked,
"Where are you from?," the American will think the question is "Where are
you from?," not "What is your ethnicity?," and respond appropriately.

We are worried that your answer reflects a feeling that Asian Americans are
foreign -- that they are different.  This feeling can lead to a lack of
understanding and an increase in racial tensions.

It is important that people realize that Asian Americans are, in fact,
Americans.  If you want to know a person's ethnicity, you should simply
ask!

So, the man who replied "Cincinnati" probably wasn't offended and wasn't
trying to be rude -- he was probably just from Cincinnati.

Sincerely,
	The Members of Soc. Culture Asian American
	(SCAA is a nationwide forum for discussion of Asian American issues)

Member			Affiliation
------			-----------
Peter Chou		University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Kerry Go		Rice University
Kevin Gong		University of California at Berkeley
Ed Hall			RAND Corporation
Alan Hu			Stanford University
Kyung Yun Kwak		CWRU
Jim Pak
Judy Tseng		University of California at Berkeley
Patsy Wang		Hewlett Packard
George Wu		Teknekron Communications Systems, Inc.
From: patw@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Patsy Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Dear Abby Letter:  Draft #1
Date: 26 Jul 92 18:51:50 GMT
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server

Kevin- you've done a good job on this draft.  I'd like to offer
my opinions:
 
 1.  I don't think you should mention Asian-bashing.  I believe 
     it's best to focus on one topic.
 2.  If you do want to mention it, I suggest you do so subtlely,
     as in:

     "We are worried that your answer reflects a feeling that Asian
      Americans are foreign and different.  This is not the correct
      attitude for racial harmony, and contributes significantly to
      the amount of Asian-bashing going on in this nation.  We were
      born and raised in this country, and most of us are proud of
      of our heritage, but we are as American as anyone else here".

Thanks for putting together a great draft.
From: lchsu@cayley.waterloo.edu (Leon C. Hsu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: There's racism, and then there's RACISM (was Re: Racial preferences in choosing your mate)
Keywords: racism
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:52:47 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Waterloo

In article <14kuegINNh1r@agate.berkeley.edu> judyy@ocf.berkeley.edu (Judy Y. Tseng) writes:
>Hey Jim, nothing personal, but racism is the belief that one race is superior
>over another. I don't think mongoloids (*cringe*) are _superior_ to
>caucasoids. 


Come on Judy Y ... you know very well that the popular american 
usage of the word racism is not just the belief that one anthropological
race is superior to another. It is used to cover all sorts of ethnic 
hatred and dislike.

That is something I have noticed on this NewsGroup. Some people use
"racism" in the popular way and others in the strict sense of the
word. This leads to stuff like DJ calling people racist because they
call him racist, when what they really mean is that he is an ethnicist(?).
I would suggest that we adopt two different words, so that we don't run 
into too much unneeded confusion. I also would suggest that someone
post a FAQ every so often, so that new users don't get confused by
the discussions that go on here.

here's  some of my suggestions for terminology....

race == anthropological distinction ... mongoloids, caucasoids and negroids ...
(that means that many East Indians are caucasiods ... ask someone about
the Aryan invasion in India if you don't believe me)
white == mostly european extraction ... note this is not the same as
being caucasion ... see above ...
racism == what Judy calls it ... 

I can't think of a good word for the other kinds of things
that some people call racism. For example, If I say I think
such-and-such a ethnic group are all some-bad-thing, then 
that makes me a ...

anyone out there agree with me?


-leon.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: lchsu@cayley.waterloo.edu (Leon C. Hsu)
Subject: Re: Year of the Dragon [CORRECTION!]
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 01:20:11 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.183026.9771@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>Given that moronic reasoning, we can use my notation to rip apart
>their other cherished but racist notion that genes determine 
>ethnicity.
>^^^^^^^^^
>
>CORRECTION!:
>
>That should read, "
>Given that moronic reasoning, we can use my notation to rip apart
>their other cherished but racist notion that genes determine 
>culture."
>^^^^^^^


So Dwight ... you're saying that you confused ethnicity and culture. 
Hmmm ... interesting. Does that make you a baboon too?

-leon.
>
>I apologize for this mistake.
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
>Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
>                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
>Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: timlee@public.btr.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Political Marriage Re: Keeping in mind that this is AmeriKKKa
Date: 27 Jul 92 05:14:06 GMT
Reply-To: timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american

judyy@ocf.berkeley.edu (Judy Y. Tseng) writes:
|5. There is power in numbers. With sheer numbers, we can turn the tide. For
|    example, the presidential candidates are much more sensitive to African
|    Americans because they, as a united group, can sway the election. In our
|    corner, Asian Americans make up 10% of California's population, but only
|    2% of the state's registered voters.
|
|6. Asian Americans, as well as non-Whites in general, do not have the
|    influence that comes with size and unity.
|
|7. Chances are that the children of Asian-White couples do not wholly identify
|     as being Asian American. Many can easily melt into the pot of White
|     America. Is this good? Yes, say the out-marrying Asian Americans. But it
|     means another step backwards for non-Whites, specifically Asian
|     Americans.

Since the prevailing social winds in this country define as non-white
anyone who is of mixed ancestry, then the person who sees marriage as
a political technique to improve the position of non-white people should
encourage marriages between non-white people and white people.  This
would increase the numbers of non-white people in the next generation,
and breaks down the notions of racial purity that form the basis of
much racial prejudice and discrimination.  Even if some of these people
of mixed ancestry appear white and are mostly viewed as white, chances
are they would be not likely to tolerate insults to their close relatives.

Of course, most people have other motivations, like maybe love, for
choosing a spouse.
From: patw@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Patsy Wang)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 05:38:10 GMT
Subject: Re: S.C.A.A Party -- August 6
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american

Geez, all we wanted to do was have another party!  And we end up
talking about dating patterns, yet again! 

Why can't we post an announcement of an upcoming party without people
whining about the inequalities of life?  Jim - I'm sure your Shannen
look-alike noticed more than just the watch on your hand.  You're
a swell guy, easy to talk to, and I'm sure if you weren't posting
so much, you'd be out having fun with woman swooning at your feet.
Too bad you're not about to make it out here for the party - we
could have a nice little discussion about AF/CM dating "issues".

To everyone else - if you'd only stop whining and really open up
to people, you'd be surprised that woman will want to talk to you
and be your friend and who knows what else!  Personally there's
nothing I can't stand more than negative people who constantly
complain and don't do a damn thing to try to change things.

Why not try going to a party (you're welcome to ours!), smile,
chit-chat, and you might be surprised that people will be drawn
to you!  Asian and all!  See you Bay Area posters on Aug 6!

Patsy

ps - I'm really an amazingly horrible bowler

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american