HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: corwin+@CMU.EDU (Scott Safier)
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Originator: scotts@MORPHEUS.CIMDS.RI.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
	<1992Nov11.182228.29647@gordian.com>
	<1992Nov12.171049.124281@watson.ibm.com> <1du8s5INNnbe@mizar.usc.edu>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:09:45 GMT

In article <1du8s5INNnbe@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

   In article <1992Nov12.171049.124281@watson.ibm.com> n
   omad@watson.ibm.com (Lee `nomaD` Damon) writes:

   > I'm curious to know how many of the people who are supporting the
   > removal of these 18 "gay men or fat women" in one year have actually
   > gone through a theatre program in college. I have the feeling I'm one
   > of the few in this discussion who has.

   I never said that I supported the removal of these people.
   What I've tried to say, over and over and over, is that
   subjective things like a student's appearance, voice,
   mannerisms, etc. ARE taken into consideration in acting
   programs. 

But where is the line?  If a faculty member is closeted, and knows
that the student isn't, and begins to criticize every performance of
this student as too effeminate, is this OK?  The faculty member does
this to every gay student, or student he thinks is gay.  Is this OK?
How do you guarantee that someone's prejudice does not cloud their
review of a student's work?  And how does the student go about making
a complaint without suffering repercussions?

These are serious questions.  I agree with Arne that there is a
subjective element to critiquing someone's performance.  But how do
you make assurances that someone's prejudices toward a person's real
or perceieved sexual orientation is not effecting the evaluation?
In a system where the best roles are awarded on this subjective
basis (normally by one person), how do you safeguard a person who does
complain from being labeled a "troublemaker"?  The complaint
could be used against them in future role assignments.  What type of
procedure can protect the person?  And lastly, would filing a
complaint in college that you were discriminated against because you
were gay label you for life.  In a field like acting, where people can
lead very public lives, could being identified as gay hurt that
person's chances to parts?

Scott
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Homos at Depth
Date: 18 Nov 92 23:59:39 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) wrote:
>What I don't understand is why there aren't more
>queers who dive.

Of course, it is much easier to find QWD where one can dive regularly.
There are a lot.

Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"Home is where your roof landed" - t-shirt seen in Miami
Hate, bigotry, and discrimination are not family values, even in
Colorado and Tampa.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: gandalf@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu (Thomas M Farrell)
Subject: Re: Velveeta (was Patrick Stewart & "Space Age")
Organization: College of Computer Science, Northeastern University
	<BxvCJ4.DCG@cs.vu.nl> <1992Nov17.214841.8685@reed.edu>
	<Bxyx83.JxL@cs.vu.nl>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:26:24 GMT

In article <Bxyx83.JxL@cs.vu.nl> fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!) writes:

   I was asked what I wanted to do on my trip to San Fransisco. I answered
   that I had some fixed stuff I just had to experience, one of them being
   going to a really big supermarket and looking at all those boxes,
   probably buying the worst of them to try..."like Twinkies and cheerios
   and stuff."
   "Twinkies? FJ, those are horrible!"
   -"Oh probably. But I want to know just _how_ horrible."

Ug, why? 
I had the pleasure of spending 10 days in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland
while in high school. Breakfast aside, I've never eaten so well in my life!
I've spent the years since dying for a good bakery and a nice restaurant that
knows how to make decent Roulladen. 
	Somebody teach us Americans how to cook, please!
			Tom

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson)
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Originator: glp@merlin
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:22:35 GMT


In article <74460@apple.apple.COM>, richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel) writes:
|> Steve: Oh.  Is there a queue forming?  :-)
|> 
|> John: Yeah. I wanna sit on Greg's face too.
|> 
|> Steve: What, and miss those sparkling eyes?
|> 
|> JD: I got eyes in the back of my... nevermind.
|> 
|> Squirrel: Stand in line, boys, stand in line.  Hey, no shoving!

But Senor Squirrel, I'm *much* too furry for you!
You, however, are well within my circle of acceptability.
Dave agrees.

|> Many thanks to the throngs that were brave enough to (a) meet me, (b)
|> enter the West Village, (c) enter a Caribbean restaurant, (d) ask me
|> about Matthew.  I had a great time.

We also asked you about you, too, as I remember,
and were properly fascinated by your answers.

And the next time you visit - let's *not* do Caribbean?
It hasn't been an easy morning.....


-- 
Greg Parkinson                  Phone: 212-657-7814  Fax: 212-825-8607
Citibank,111 Wall Street        E-Mail: glp@fig.citib.com
New York, New York  10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: The Hate Gene (was Re: Social Democracy)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 00:54:13 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <1992Nov16.225857.7844@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu
(Jess Anderson) wrote:
> 
> 
> In article <17930@autodesk.COM> owen@autodesk.com (D.  Owen
> Rowley) writes:
> 
> >Like the rest of her ilk, Ms shore never speaks directly to
> >individuals or issues which offer substantive differences of
> >opinion from her own.
> 
> Hey, I get it!  Like you did here, huh?
> 
> >A lovely .signature, it certainly got me to pay more
> >attention to you :-)
> 
> Well, what a winner that must be for all concerned, at least
> them of a certain ilk.


Poor little Jezeboo has been reduced to *one* *sentence* *responses*.
Truly fascinating!  First, crucified in a crucible of his own
babbling logic by one JBN.  And now, reduced to the impotence of 
teensy-tiny tirades by one OR.

Your strength, Jezeboo, is in the stamina with which you pound
out paragraph after paragraph of piffle - so much piffle that
your ass is left plenty of room to wiggle.  Rather like the 
octopian ink cloud.  Your attempts at biting wit, when reduced
to single fart-ations, resemble a gum attack (perhaps, given
your seniority, not particularly inappropriate...) far more than
a bite.  

Indeed, small threat you would be to dear Keanu, trapped alone
in a dreary castle...

*X*
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
From: cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:33:42 GMT
Organization: Eastern Illinois University

In article <1992Nov16.154610.652@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>In article <BxoBC2.Is5@fc.sde.hp.com> marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com writes:
>>
>>This is a (rather lame) argument in favor of discrimination in general, but it
>>does not give me a clue as to why one should be constitutionally guaranteed the
>>right to discriminate against gays, but not against say blacks.  
>
>Just because some people do not think that being Gay is the same 
>thing as being black?
>I know some people who think that being Gay is a psychological disorder, in
>some cases. They do not believe that Gay should be given minority status.

    Well, I know (or I should say "I have been exposed to") people who
think gays should be rounded up and shot.  Who cares what "some people
think"?

    *This* is an argument??

>>I could
>>subsitute "black" for "gay" above without changing the point.  So we should
>>have an amendment prohibiting African-Americans from protection against
>>disrimination, too?
>
>For some people it would not be the same. For some people being Gay is not
>an inborn thing but a disorder.

    See above. 
 

-- 
   ******************************************************************
     Howard Black                             cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu
     Department of Chemistry                  Eastern Illinois Univ. 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Subject: Re: Cheese-Louise
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:24:12 GMT

nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

:Don't forget the wine, FJ!!

I'm afraid you'll have to bring your own. I don't drink alcohol.

:Screw Oregon, I want to go to Amsterdam and be instructed there. FJ, I
:did tell you about my fee for C++ consulting? One round trip business
:class ticket from Portland to Amsterdam? Make it for June 1, if you
:please.

Pass it on to Niek. He's the one with the job.

:I'll trade physical labour for lodging.

Oh, you'll clean my house?
								FJ!!
From: jrd@frame.com (James Drew)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: 17 Nov 1992 11:44:05 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Gary Strand (gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu) continues to spew:

>  I don't see the reasoning behind the "discrimination is bad except in these
>  cases: whites, males, straights, non-handicapped, &c" as legitimate.

Whites *are* protected from discrimination, based on race.
Men *are* protected, based on gender.
I can't recall the rest of the standard EEO policy, but if it includes a
	protection for "handicapped," then it uses a term like "disability,"
	meaning that the non-disabled *are* likewise protected.

The law says, "You may not discriminate based on race, gender, religion, etc."
It does not say, "You may not discriminate because they are black, female,
Jewish, etc."  Thus, the "mainline" WASP genotype *is* protected.

In my opinion, quotas are a bad thing, and that time that you were let go so
that a married guy could have your job, you probably should have gone to court,
as you should have been protected by marital status.  (If you just let it
slide, figuring it wasn't worth it, then you are part of the problem, not the
solution.)

------------------------------
                             |     We guided the guy dressed as a nun up Dore
Jim Drew                     | Alley, to see the dead guy dressed as a nun.
jrd@frame.com                |     "Oh, this isn't one of *us,*" he said, and
(Furry: Randy Puritan)       | started patting down the dead nun's habit, until
"Innocent, but not naive."   | he found a silver flask of alcohol.
B2h t w- c k s g+(p) rv p    |     "We're the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence.
S8/5 g l+ y+ o+ a+ u++- j++  | This used to be one of the Sisters of Perpetual
{opinions: mine != frame's}  | Inebriation.  They're down at the other end of
                             | the fair.
                             |		- Marc Lynx, "Awl's Fare"
From: harris@gallium.cs.unc.edu (Trey Harris)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: 'Out': System 7 "Not Our Fault"
Date: 18 Nov 92 06:14:16 GMT
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

I was thumbing through a friend's copy of the fall issue of _Out_
yesterday when I saw something that intrigued me.  In their list of
things "Not Our Fault," along with Ross Perot and Woody and Mia's
problems, was "System 7."

Am I missing something, or is a gay mag doing Apple humor?

I remember thinking when I last installed System 7 on a machine that
this was a very het system, then laughed at myself for such a stupid
thought.  

Maybe someone agrees with me... :-)

I dunno, maybe the Balloon Help did it...would a queer have come
up with Balloon Help?  (I hope a lesbigay didn't come up with it, or
I have a major foot to stick in my mouth...)

Trey Harris
--Stranger in a Strange Thread!
From: mickw@autodesk.com (Mick Washbrook)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What Gay Sex (was Re: How Many Homosexuals?)
Date: 20 Nov 92 21:30:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.173842.11412@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>, gsmith@lauren.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Gene W. Smith) writes:
> 
> Well, what is your thesis about?  Try this as an example: "When
> considering fundamental regions for automorphic functions, we see many
> angles which look acute, but act as if they were obtuse.  This comes
> from the fact that the universal covering is a hyperbolic plane."
> 
> That sounded almost natural to me.  Maybe it would even be possible to
> work in cyclopean somehow.

Yeah, but what about "ululation," "stygian," "batrachian," and  "chthonic,"
huh?






--
Death to all fanatics!!

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sucking on Keanu Reeves
Date: 23 Nov 92 17:56:17 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <2b10d384@ThreeL.co.uk>, jf@threel.co.uk (John Fisher) wrote:

> What's all this anti-French shit that's been creeping
> around the group?

The French are very convenient.  They're white.  They're industrialized.
They're (according to their PM) rabidly heterosexual.  Can't find much
more politically correct cannon fodder than that...

*X*
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What Gay Sex (was Re: How Many Homosexuals?)
Date: 17 Nov 92 04:01:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Nov17.040101.13553
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Nov17.000530.29451@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>ObMotss - after learning the word "chthonian" (from what source, I am
>ashamed to admit), I did my damndest to use it in an English paper.

That's impossible.  Camille Paglia's book hadn't come out then.
(It's her most favorite word in _Sexual Personae_.)

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Re: Twice Fucked (Colorado gays)
Organization: Smiley Abolition Front
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 01:34:26 GMT

In article <q1qkuB2w165w@lily.arts.com> palepink@lily.arts.com (Suzii Abe) writes:
>solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay) writes:
>
>> But... but... he was right, wasn't he? CO-2 isn't nearly as bad
>> as OR-9. 
>
>CO:2 is *much* *worse* than OR:9.  CO:2 is a part of a state 
>constitution; OR:2 is a part of a history lesson.

Agreed, but you're taking me out of context. I was saying that
CO-2 wasn't nearly as bad as OR-9 *would have been*, had it
passed; I think that was clear in my original posting.
-- 
Andrew Michael Solovay    

"When angry, count four. When very angry, swear."
                --Mark Twain
From: ltp@uswest.com (Halfman-Halfmachine)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:08:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.194859.6744@craycos.com> sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi) writes:
>You could start by not paying your Va. income tax this year (since
>that indirectly supports Mr. Robertson's tax-exempt organization). 
					  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And isn`t THAT a pisser! It seems to me that if the Christian fund-
amentalists, Mormans, or whoever, want to play the political game, and
have the ability to propose changes to the state constitution, then
they should also pay taxes like everyone else. Isn't the Catholic
church one of the biggest money making organizations in the world?
It would be a sizable chunk of money fed directly into federal and
state coffers if religous organizations like those behind CFV had to 
pay Uncle Sam, state and local taxes. It might take enough money out
of their seemingly overflowing propaganda, I mean, campaign fund to
at least make them think twice before they launch an attack on in-
dividual rights.

-- 
Larry T. Paine   ltp@advtech.uswest.com   (303)541-6148
   DoD 789   
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tab@blitzen.cc.bellcore.com (biederman,thomas)
Subject: Bob Dole Quote
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 10:03:34 GMT


....International Hearald Tribune 11/16/92

Bob Dole, Republican of Kansas, the Senate minority leader, on
Mr. Clinton's plan to lift the ban on homosexuals in the armed forces:
"I'd advise him to appoint a commission and study it.  In my
view, he's going to get in more trouble than he can add up right now if  
he starts with an executive order on that issue.  It will cause real problems
with the military, and it seems to me that he'd be making a big mistake. 
He ought to put it on the back burner.  He ought to do like I guess,
the Bush administration did with women in combat, let somebody else take
a hard look at it first and then make recommendations."

--
Sounds like something from the 1940's to me         


tom biederman
Rome Italy
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Support the boycott (was Re: Don't boycott all of Colorado)
Date: 19 Nov 92 00:37:51 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA

In article <mattm-181192113943@mcmelmon.apple.com>, mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
> A fine load of cynical shit, that.  Perhaps a different approach
> is in order:  has it occured to the Totalitarian Tinkerbell set
> that a boycott by a faction within a faction that comprises 
> perhaps 10% of the total population (in other words, a boycott
> by some single-digit percentage of the population) - won't have
> *SQUAT* impact upon the Colorado economy?  Scream 'till your
> tonsils turn pink.  It will serve only as 'evidence' of a 
> 'homosexual agenda' - and it's complete *lack* of *impact* will
> serve as 'evidence' that the 'homosexual agenda' is nothing
> to be feared.

  This is not necessarily so. A boycott does not need to be all
encompassing or numerically widespread to get its point across.
A convention here, a superbowl there mixed liberally with
media are all the necessary ingredients to get people to
take notice.

> This boycott is *already* a flop.  Mr. Williams posted something
> which is far more likely to have an impact - and it is the
> exact *opposite* of what the TT's of soc.motss are calling for.

  I would say that the rumors of its death are greatly exaggerated.
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyarman@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Donald L Yarman)
Subject: Re: What Gay Sex (was Re: How Many Homosexuals?)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 12:36:45 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.112432.1902@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> 
gsmith@clio.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Gene W. Smith) writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.000530.29451@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson
>Minar) writes:
>
>>ObMotss - after learning the word "chthonian" (from what source, I am
>>ashamed to admit), I did my damndest to use it in an English paper.
>
>H. P. Lovecraft?

Marvel Comics?  (I think I picked it up in _The Avengers_)

--Don
dyarman@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Fundamentalists and the clitoris
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, California
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 22:48:34 GMT

> harvey@phoenix.princeton.edu (Harvey Cohen) writes:

>                        ..."Live and let live" is not in their vocabulary. 
>They do not recognize any alternative viewpoints (christian, Jewish, Muslim,
>atheist or otherwise)...

A case in point -- today's (11/18/92) New York Times reported
on a meeting of Republican state governors.  At a press
conference, a reporter "asked the governors whether they could
succeed in holding together a diverse conservative coalition
without alienating the religious right."

    ...Governor Kirk Fordice of Mississippi took issue with
    the questioner.

    He said the question "seemed to infer that there is a
    demise of Christianity in America," adding, "I totally
    reject that."

    Mr. Fordice went on to say: "The United States of America
    is a Christian nation, which does not in any way infer at
    any time that religious intolerance or any kind of
    particular dogma is being forced on anyone else.  It just
    is a simple fact of life in the United States of America."

    Governor [Carroll A.] Campbell [Jr., of South Carolina]
    then strode to the platform and said: "The value base of
    this country comes from the Judeo-Christian heritage that
    we have, and that is something we need to realize."  He
    added that a study of history showed that "the foundation
    of the country" was based on "a Judeo-Christian heritage."

    When Mr. Campbell returned to his spot on the dais next to
    Mr. Fordice, he said, "I just wanted to add the 'Judeo'
    part."

    Mr. Fordice responded tartly, "If I wanted to do that I
    would have done it."
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: bear vs. twink
Date: 20 Nov 92 07:47:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.46173
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR

In article <1992Nov19.205409.20229@infonode.ingr.com> norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris) writes:
>         I guess I'm one of those people who, when stating a preference, 
>would say "average".

Having met you and your SO, "average" is not the word I would use.

--mark
--
Mark Morrissey           One Hatred to rule them all.  One Hatred to find them.
markm@cse.ogi.edu        One Hatred to bring them all and in the darkness bind
                         them.  In the land of Bigotry where the Shadows lie.
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:14:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Nov16.161458.17889
Organization: insert anything here

Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>>>On the other hand, considering how anti-anything-but-bears you've
>>>established yourself to be, perhaps you mean what you wrote in a
>>>most offensive way.  I'll hope not and look for a clarification.

>Thank you.  I find it interesting that when the Bears are
>discussing what they find attractive in this forum, we get the
>cries of "Oh no, all that Bear crap again!"  

	George, you forget, if the "b" word is *in* the posting, it
gets counted as a "ohnonotanotherbearposting".

	In the last 4 1/2 years the %age of "bear-oriented" traffic
here has slowed to a crawl.  Mostly it's been moved to the BML
(which has lots more traffic in the last year than the previous 3 combined
I'll bet).

	The big umbrella only works as long as you can balance it
upside-down ont he tip of your finger.  Eventually it starts to tip
and tilt in different directions.

BBC
Newsgroups: soc.motss