HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Subject: Re: Michael Jordan in coma
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 03:56:25 GMT
Organization: VMARK Software, Inc.

In article <725036772@tigris.cs.duke.edu> cig@duke.cs.duke.edu (Curry I. Guinn) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec21.185348.25740@ll.mit.edu> nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith) writes:
>>
>>   boston won that game, so the defense was equal to the task.  they would
>>   have won by a lot more, except that jordan was unconscious.  no defense
>                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Hey, the great ones like MJ play through their injuries unlike those wusses
>like Mark Price and Danny Manning.

Yeah.. you think they are bad, you should have seen Len Bias... he would
have been a legend if he would have just played through that unfortunate
death...
-- 
David T. Meeks            || "New shadows tugging at the corner of his eye
VMark Software, Inc.      ||  Jostling for attention as the sunlight flares
uvmark!davem@merk.com     ||  Through a curtains tear, shuffling its beams
davem%uvmark@merk.com     ||  As if in nervous anticipation of another day"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: jcp29389@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (I Spike - Therefore I Am)
Subject: Re: Bulls vs. Knicks!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 23:27:34 GMT


u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei) writes:

>Pat Riley messed things up too.  I don't know why he left Greg Anthony out
>to get his butt messed up by the Bulls' trap.  How many straight times did
>he turn the ball over for dunks?  Riley is supposed to know how to get out
>of traps, they weren't that tough.  Maybe sometimes he needs Rivers and Anthony
>out there at the same time because Blackman and Starks don't dribble too well.
>After scoring 10 easy points the first half, the Knicks forgot to set up
>Charles Smith.  Give Starks less playing time!  That boy just can't resist
>shooting.  Maybe play a tape of his teammate, Blackman to teach him about
>shot selection.  If Ro had been given more time, he would have outplayed Jordan
>from a shooting standpoint.  One additional thing...Doc Rivers has offensive
>potential, unlike Anthony.  He can drive to the hoop, but he never looks to do
>so.  If he could do that, he could create for his teammates, but Riley seems
>to favor an offense with no one on one play.

All those championships that Riley won mean nothing, he sucks.  I think this
guy here should be the Knick's coach.  He certanly knows what he's talking
about.

>Chicago has immense problems to overcome as well if they are to threepeat.
>Michael Jordan shooting 40% on route to a 35 point game isn't going to do it.
>B.J. Armstrong isn't the answer at point, and Scottie Pippen...any more
>questions on how he didn't deserve to be an Olympian?  Every other Olympian
>could take charge on the court...heck, even Christian Laettner is having a
>better season than Pippen.  Why does he look like such a wimp out there?
>There definitely isn't a Knick he couldn't take it to the hole against, but
>again he settled for dump off shots.  16 points from him and virtually nothing
>from the other Bulls isn't the answer to a championship.

The fact that they won two championships in a row, plus the success so far
this year means nothing, they suck.  They definitely should listen to this guy
and make some major trades, maybe for some more "olympians".

have a nice day

-- 
   _/    _/   _/_/_/		Jay Pardee
  _/    _/     _/		pardee@cs.uiuc.edu	University of Illinois
   _/_/     _/_/_/					 Urbana-Champaign
From: nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Shaq vs. Wilt
Date: 23 Dec 92 21:13:36 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory

In article <1992Dec23.154048.2418@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei) writes:
>In article <1992Dec22.202247.19591@ll.mit.edu> nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith) writes:
>>...[]...Bill was better at making his team better.  i dont know if wilt
>>ever made his team better, even when he decided to lead the league in
>> assists.....
>Making his team better?  That's a term that everyone seems to like to use
>for no apparent reason.  Russell made his team better?  What, you mean by
>putting his 6'10'' body out there, rebounding the crap out of the ball,
>playing great defense and slamming in 17 ppg?  I suppose that works.  His
>team won or lost the championship depending on Russell?  Well, take any
>championship team, remove their most valuable player and do you think they'll
>still have a championship?

ok - certainly, you lose your starting center and your chances go south
real fast.  no argument.  what i am saying is that Russell made the team
more than a simple sum of its parts.  remember, russell was also the coach
at the end there.  now when was wilt ever a coach?  what does this say
about understanding team chemistry?
>
>I say Wilt was better at making his teams better.  Without him, they probably
>would have been in last place, while Russell's teams wouldn't have died.

i disagree.  i think wilt made his team LESS than the sum of its simple
parts.  admittedly wilt is a Very Huge Part in that simple sum.

if you put wilt on the celtic teams they dont win as many titles - not 11
out of 13.  i assume wilt never gets injured...they win maybe 5.  okay?
there is the issue we are arguing.  and you certainly have a right to
think 13 out of 13 if you like.  or - wilt doesnt retire and 15 for 15 -
if you like.  we are all entitled to our opinions.  i say wilt wins maybe
5 out of the 13 or 15.  remember, of course, if wilt is with the C's,
russell is with some other team, maybe the lakers :-).

- nate
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
|   Wilt Chamberlain:   A  stiff  20,000  times  over....      |
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith)
Subject: Re: Phoenix is absolutely scary...
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 15:50:33 GMT

In article <jjonsson.314@alexandria.lib.utah.edu> jjonsson@alexandria.lib.utah.edu writes:
>In article <C02zpq.7EM@chinet.chi.il.us> prb@chinet.chi.il.us (Paul Botts) writes:
>>If you want to take points allowed per game as the measure of team
>>defense, sure, Utah's right up there. That is, however, a ridiculous way
>>to measure team defense, 
>
>Huh? Excuse me? What's the point of defense if not to stop the other team 
>from scoring. . .
>
>>since it is highly dependant on a team's *offensive* style of play. 
>
>Again, Huh? I just don't get this one. The Jazz play a very good "defensive" 
>offense, keeping control of the ball, and playing half-court offense. 
>Slowing the pace of the game keeps the scores down, and the Jazz can beat 
>anyone in the half-court. I don't understand how transition teams like the 
>Suns, Portland, and Bulls are in the same league as Utah when it comes to 
>half-court play. On the other hand, the Knicks play a very similar style of 
>ball. Pat Riley has seen his share of defensive battles with the Jazz, and I 
>think he's learned quite a lot from the Jazz, Jerry Sloan, and the man-
>mountain defense of Mark Eaton.
>
>Jeff Jonsson

a half-court team isnt necessarily a defensive team and vice-versa.  i
dont think the term "defensive offense" is what Paul was talking about.

the incredible defense we've seen from the bulls isnt attributed to
their half-court offense or their transition offense, both of which are
also very good.  Utah is a good defensive team, but not because the
opponents scoring average is so low.  its more accurately reflected in
the opponents feild goal percentage, although that isnt the whole picture
either.  the low scores of both sides have to do with dictating the tempo
of the game.  on the other hand, if we see a team averaging 112 points
per game while yeilding 91, then the low scores do reflect defense.
teams play to their strengths.  teams with low scores on both sides
show a desire to dictate a slow pace to fit their player make-up.

- nate
From: halpin@sw.stratus.com (Jim Halpin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Who are the tallest point guards?
Date: 21 Dec 92 18:46:46 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: turkey.sw.stratus.com

In article <1992Dec21.174149.14430@micom.com>, jscott@micom.com (James Scott) writes:
>
> > Dallas:		Mike Iuzzolino???	????
> 
> well, if Iuzzolino played pg, he would certainly be the tallest.  the
> lowly mavs pg is their only bona-fied nba starter ... derek harper.
> he goes about 6'3".


	Iuzzolini does play point guard and he is only 5'11' according to TSN.
He currently leads the Mavs in assist game with 5.6. Haper is averaging 4.9.

	I also notice that both Harper and Iuzzolino are averaging over 30 minutes
a game. I suspect that when they are in the backcourt together, Harper plays the
2-spot.

-- 
!	Jim  Halpin
!	Stratus Computer
!	Marlboro, MA
!
!	halpin@turkey.sw.stratus.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: rajesh@unlv.edu (Rajesh Viswanathan)
Subject: Re: GO CAVS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Organization: UNLV
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 18:13:30 GMT

And dont forget to mention that they're just three games out of first
chasing a stumbling, bumbling bull! or that they have a 6 game win 
streak - go cavs indeed!!
-- 
Rajesh
:: I hope if dogs ever take over the world, and they chose a king, they     ::
:: don't just go by size, because I bet there are some Chihuahuas with some ::
:: good ideas.								    ::
From: robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Lakers are in Trouble
Date: 29 Dec 1992 19:12:41 GMT
Organization: Psychedelic Suburbia
NNTP-Posting-Host: halcyon.aero.org

Well, it may soon be time for Jerry West to act. The optimism
of a few weeks ago has been shattered completely. The offense
has gone completely flat - with the exception of Sam Perkins, and
occasionally James Edwards, NO ONE is scoring from the paint. The Lakers
have gone to a perimeter game - perhaps not intentionally, but they
are not getting anything else. The defensive intensity of a few weeks
ago is GONE, Divac and Campbell have all but dissappeared at both ends
of the floor. Edwards is too old to carry the inside scoring responsibilities
himself, and Green and Perkins need Vlade and Campbell to carry their
share.

The loss last night in Miami was pathetic. The Lakers were marvelous
during the first quarter and the first 4 minutes of the second, twice
leading by 18. Then they went absolutely FLAT. Completely outplayed
by those two "superstars", Harold Miner and Grant Long.

Sad irony: a large reason why the Lakers surged to the early lead
was the play of James Worthy, who look as if he regained his touch
last night. But after the first 18 min or so of the game, the
team just gave up. The rest of the team failed to become inspired
by Worthy's play - in fact, they may have gone back on their
heels a bit and watched him, or perhaps became deferential to
him instead of each player doing what was needed, when it was needed.

What do the Lakers need? A true point guard, so that Sedale could start
as offguard and average the consistent 20+ per night that he would
if he didn't have the responsibility of running the offense. And
a center who is tough and animated all of the time, instead of one
who's tough and animated for a few weeks and then takes a month off.

Will West do something soon? My guess is that he won't. I suspect
he'll wait until about midseason to see how things look before
deciding if any changes are needed. In the meantime, we're along 
for the ride.......

				R.S.
From: as232@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Lerner)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Phoenix is absolutely scary...
Date: 28 Dec 1992 18:15:57 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


They're peaking too early.  Look out for late season injuries.

Mike
--
From: tamada@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael K. Tamada)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: All-time Coaching Wins  (was Re: Spurs, etc.)
Date: 31 Dec 92 02:14:10 GMT
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.

In article <1992Dec30.212733.11682@microsoft.com> paulg@microsoft.com (Paul Goode) writes:

     [...stuff about the Spurs deleted]

>Point taken. However, I don't believe that Red Auerbach could
>coach this club to a championship without a better starting 
>backcourt. The current group is either slow, one-dimensional, or

     Speaking of Red, last week the Seattle Times listed the all-time
winningest NBA head coaches.  Auerbach of course leads the list with
something like 738 or 938, people like Jack Ramsey, Dick Motta, etc.
were up there too.  
     But what caught my eye was that Lenny Wilkens was only 110 victories 
behind Auerbach.  Which means if the Cavaliers stay at about their current 
level and Wilkens keeps on coaching, in a little over two years he'll 
overtake Red Auerbach!
     It's sort of like whem Hank Aaron overtook Babe Ruth:  everyone knew
Aaron was great, but they didn't even think about him in relation to
Ruth until Aaron had about 650 home runs, and suddenly people realized 
Hey!  This guy could overtake the legend!
     (Disclaimer:  yes I know Wilkens only has 1 championship ring and
that number of victories doesn't tell us who the best coach is.  But it's
still an achievement.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  |__	       o
  | W			   Mike Tamada
		  |\	   Institutional Research Office
		   \O	   Occidental College
		    |      tamada@oxy.edu
		   /|
		  | |
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: oliver@athena.mit.edu (James D. Oliver III)
Subject: Culture comes to USENET (was Re: Jordan & Pippen: No Olympics)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
	<1992Dec30.221708.21896@ll.mit.edu> <C03K75.CrB@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 03:59:22 GMT

In article <C03K75.CrB@news.cso.uiuc.edu> dmd39855@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Daniel DuBois) wrote:
> An ignorant statement like that makes me just want to
> pimp-slap you.

Now, this is definitely a first!  I have never seen the term "pimp-slap" in
a newsgroup before.

Am now anxiously awaiting the first usage of "bust upside your nappy head"
. . .
____________________________
	Jim Oliver  
	oliver@athena.mit.edu /	joliver@hstbme.mit.edu
	oliver%mitwccf.BITNET@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei)
Subject: Re: Bulls vs. Knicks!
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 04:45:10 GMT

In article <BzxyI0.HwL@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jcp29389@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (I Spike - Therefore I Am) writes:
>
>All those championships that Riley won mean nothing, he sucks.  I think this
>guy here should be the Knick's coach.  He certanly knows what he's talking
>about.
>The fact that they won two championships in a row, plus the success so far
>this year means nothing, they suck.  They definitely should listen to this guy
>and make some major trades, maybe for some more "olympians".
>have a nice day

You arrogant bastard.  I have a right to an opinion, it certainly doesn't mean
that I think I'm Pat Riley's superior.  I just say what I see.  So you're
telling me that you agree with every single thing you see out in the NBA?
After all, how did any of those people get coaching jobs anyway.  Your words
depict the weakest and most useless sort of personality.  Instead of arguing
against me with normal weapons like logic and fact, you spew things out of
your rectum.

The fact that all those championships happened doesn't mean those guys are
perfect...otherwise, they'd never lose a game.  The Bulls themselves admit
they are struggling this year and the Knicks are fighting to acquaint them-
selves with a lot of new players.  But gee, you're right.  All of those
columnists who don't agree with coaches should be hung.  Have a nice day
yourself.
From: hruo@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM (Hiro Ruo)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: WANTED: Hornets/Bulls
Date: 28 Dec 92 19:54:35 GMT
Reply-To: hruo@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM (Hiro Ruo)
Distribution: usa
Organization: NCR E&M CLEMSON Liberty, SC

if you have tickets for any Hornets/Bulls game, please contact me at
(803)843-1962.  This is my work number, so leave a message if i'm not in the
office.

i don't have the schedule for the rest of the season, so i don't have any
particular dates in mind (or any idea if there are any more games left between
these two teams).  but i would make time to go to a game.

thanks.
hiro.ruo@clemsonsc.ncr.com
From: nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: <None>
Date: 24 Dec 92 17:13:34 GMT
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory

In article <1992Dec24.092903.1@ccsua.ctstateu.edu> kellyb@ccsua.ctstateu.edu writes:
>
>  Just saw the footage of last nights Pistons vs. Hornets game, screw the
>  basketball,I liked the fight better.Allthough it never came to blows,it
>  had the potential of being the greatest bout since

ah yes...bill baits and hooks another newcomer....

- nate
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 07:20:54 EST
From: <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Bullets fans, what's wrong with Pervis?

In article <1h3qeqINNesd@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, as232@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
(Michael Lerner) says:
>
>Ellison was regularly putting up 20+pt/10+reb games just a year ago.  Is
>he running out of steam?  I look in the paper and see he has about 10pts a
>night.
>
>Mike
>--

    Pervis has been fighting injury all season.  Since he is now a disciple of
Wes Unseld's, Pervis doesn't complain about it, he just goes out and
contributes what he can to the team effort.  I think it is a knee that is
bothering him.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Michael Jordan in coma
Date: 22 Dec 92 14:11:52 GMT
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory

In article <DOWDING.92Dec21143520@palm.ai.sri.com> dowding@ai.sri.com (John Dowding) writes:
>
>How did 'playing unconscious' ever get to mean something like 'playing
>well'?
>--
>John Dowding

indeed  :-)  "he was zoned out tonight".  well, consider, "he was really
Bad, man" and other similar things (infact, this head-bonking, which Chuck
Person exemplifies so much, could fall into this Reverse World thinking).

on a serious note, though, Bill Lee did say something about going out
to the pitcher's mound, something like "when you go out there, you gotta
cut your head off...." referring to the danger of thinking to much about
the action you are about to take.  perhaps this is an allusion to letting
your muscles make the shot, not your head - your head is going to add on
all these rococco things like: "is that the mailman's elbow coming my way?"
and "if i step back another 4 inches, maybe it'll be a 3" or "is this
going to be 11 misses in a row?" - so maybe unconscious is where you
want to be.....

- nate
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: jscott@micom.com (James Scott)
Subject: Re: Tark is fired
Keywords: spurs
Organization: Micom Communications Corp., Simi Valley, Ca.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:52:27 GMT

i heard sonny vaccaro on the jim lampley show this morning talking about
tark. lampley touted vaccaro as being "probably tarks best friend in the
world of basketball."  vaccaro said that the combination of losing and
the bleak prospects of winning without a decent PG brought tark to 
decide to escape.  vaccaro said that tark essentially  "forced" redmac
to can him.  of course, redmac has the itchiest trigger finger in the
west ... much to the detriment of the club.

terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU writes:

>The Spurs inexplicably let Rod Strickland go.  Though he wasn't the
>best point guard in the world, he's a lot better than anything they've
>got.

(spur fan hat on)

agreed.  the spurs have, at best, a backup 2 guard playing point.
strickland came along in the wake of the wingate/maxwell scandals
and spur mgmt generally doesn't put up with off court problems these
days.  btw, i'm holding my breath on lloy_ _aniels.

(hat off)

james

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: jlesgold@pangaea.earth.nwu.edu (Jacob Lesgold)
Subject: Re: What is the scoop on Laetner?
Organization: Department of Geological Sciences, Northwestern University
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 22:30:33 GMT

In article <1ht7giINN8vb@malibog.hal.COM> rc@hal.COM (Rolland Crunk) writes:
>
>From USA Today 12/29/92 (abbreviated):
>
>		    G  fg fga  fg%  ft fta  ft% 3fg 3fga reb as st to bl ppg 
>	---------------------------------------------------------------------
>	Laettner   22 148 393 .502 118 145 .814   3   13 181 41 19 75 27 19.0

But in this case, the stats don't add up.  148/393=.377.  

--
JJ Cool L  	Sable Scarab	  jlesgold@nwu.edu
"My spectacles, my white lab coat, my coffee thermos and my notes
 I pat my pocket, feel the key to the secrets of the observatory"
				-- Jethro Tull
From: dougs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Steele)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:40:39 GMT
Subject: Re: Team Standings and Stats
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
From: raczka@HQ.Ileaf.COM (christopher raczka)
Subject: Re: Lakers are in Trouble
Reply-To: raczka@HQ.Ileaf.COM (christopher raczka)
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 19:34:05 GMT

In article <1hq7v9INNj89@news.aero.org> robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger) writes:
> 
> Will West do something soon? My guess is that he won't. I suspect
> he'll wait until about midseason to see how things look before
> deciding if any changes are needed. In the meantime, we're along 
> for the ride.......
> 
> 				R.S.
> 

    I don't think there is much Jerry can do, there isn't a GM
    inclined to deal with him and rightly so.

    I think the *best* move, is the one that they missed last year ...
    (thanks to Dunleavy)
    screw the playoffs and get in the lottery!!

chris

-- 
"Any comments, opinions, and views expressed here (on Usenet) are MINE
and are in no way shared nor endorsed by my employer."
                        christopher raczka
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Monday, 28 Dec 1992 09:43:50 MST
From: <ICJPS@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: What happened to the Big O (Miller)?

Ollie hurt his right foot a while back...I forget which game.  He should
return in early January.  He's a real crowd fave here.
From: nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: La Lakers
Date: 23 Dec 92 20:50:47 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory

In article <1992Dec23.152357.28826@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei) writes:
>
>Scott's game benefitted from Kareem or Worthy, e.g. someone who goes to the
>hole?  Where is that from?  You might not that Michael Jordan and Scottie
>Pippen get a lot of assists from spotting guys like Paxson.  So just how
>many assists did Kareem and Worthy have anyway?  Give the fact that Magic
>got 12 a game, isn't it likely that players were more dependent on him?
>...[]......you mention Horace Grant being a factor for helping Paxson
>out.  I have watched a hell of a lot of Bulls games...and I don't even
>remember even an accidental assist from Grant to Paxson.

you dont get it do you?  when low post players have the defense collapse
on them, they kick it back out to the passer (Magic or Pippen or Jordan
above), and the passer quickly feeds the bombadier (Scott or Paxson) for
a wide open jumper.  when the low post threats deteriorate (as in the
Celtics case) or the passer drops a notch in court recognition (as in
the Lakers), the outside shot isnt that open anymore.  actually in
Grant's case its more like that he gets an Offensive rebound and kicks
it out to pippen or michael and then they find paxson all alone.

by the way, "oscar" gamble would do very well in paxson's role.  and i
know that if the C's trade him, he'll come back and haunt them Bad...
just the ol' Murphy law in action there.

- nate