HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Subject: Re: Importing trees/seeds.
Organization: Alex Technologies Ltd, London, England
Apparently-To: mail2news@demon.co.uk
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 11:48:06 +0000

In article <1993Jan20.214001.9311@infodev.cam.ac.uk>, amd@mail.ast.cam.ac.uk (Andrew Dunn) writes:
|> 
|> Does anybody know whether the restrictions have changed with the new
|> single European market in place?
|> 
I don't think things have got any less restrictive since the change. 

Peter Chan gave a talk about his buying trips to Japan at our club 2 
weeks ago and showed pictures of beautiful Black Pines which he was 
not allowed to bring into the country. He mentioned that it was 
possible that White Pines could soon be on the forbidden list too.

As for growing restricted trees from seed, I would imagine that this 
does not pose a problem because you would not actually be importing
diseased trees. I know that garden centers and bonsai shops near me
sell Black Pine seeds.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                     (          *#/*           )  Alex Technologies Ltd.
     David Quinn      )       *##*\##         (   CP House,
    dave@alex.com    (      *###*_/-*##*       )  97-107 Uxbridge Road,
                      )     _____/______      (   Ealing,London W5 5TL
_____________________(______\----------/_______)________________________
From: cs688@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michel Bartolone)
Newsgroups: alt.bonsai
Subject: The PROPOSED rec.arts.bonsai RFD
Date: 24 Jan 1993 16:51:22 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cs688@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michel Bartolone)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


This is the PROPOSED Request For Discussion that I intend to post
to the news.groups group, here, and the BONSAI mailing list on
Friday. THIS IS NOT THE OFFICIAL POSTING. I want all of YOU,
the alt.bonsai readers to review this document and e-mail me
suggestions, criticisms, and corrections by THURSDAY so I can
adjust this document as necessary.

===============================================================


                 REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION

RFD for creation of rec.arts.bonsai group for discussion of
the art, and techniques of bonsai. Also mailed to rec.gardens,
and the Bonsai mailing list for distribution to their 
readership.

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION

Create an UNMODERATED Usenet newsgroup called "rec.arts.bonsai".

  This announcement is cross-posted to newsgroups and mailing 
  lists whose readers may have an interest in the discussion 
  about the new group;
  follow-up discussion will take place in "news.groups".
  Suggestions, comments or problems may also be emailed to me 
  at bartlone@gemed.ge.com, OR cs688@freenet-in-a.cwru.edu.

PURPOSE

  The newsgroup rec.arts.bonsai would be a forum for 
discussing all aspects of the hobby of training, growing,
displaying, purchase and sales of bonsai.


RATIONALE

  Currently, discussion of the art of bonsai is carried out in
the BONSAI mailing list, AND in alt.bonsai. This group has, in
the 6 months since its creation, been a forum for the discussion
of the joys and woes, the art and techniques of growing and
maintaining the beautiful dwarfed trees known as bonsai. Even
though this group is carried by only 40% of the sites, it has
maintained a reasonable flow of traffic, and has fostered
discussions between people from Australia, to Japan, to the US 
and Canada, to numerous countries in Europe. We feel that to
reach a larger possible audience would enhance this group, and
the information that we share.
  

CONTENT

This newsgroup is open to all people interested in knowing
more, or sharing information they have gathered about the
art of growing and training bonsai.


NEWSGROUP CREATION

  The discussion period will be from 29 January 1993 to 26 
February 1993.

Please post all discussion in "news.groups".

If a consensus is reached by  the end of the discussion period,
a CFV (Call for Votes) will be posted at that time.

The voting period will last for 30 days.

Thank you for your interest.

Michel Bartolone  
bartlone@gemed.ge.com
cs688@freenet-in-a.cwru.edu
-- 
Mike Bartolone bartlone@gemed.ge.com

Newsgroups: alt.bonsai
From: edmtl@alf.uib.no (Thor Legvold)
Subject: Re: Moving alt.bonsai to rec.arts.bonsai
Organization: University of Bergen, Norway
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 15:45:58 GMT

cabhhmm@cli74aa.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Michele Morin 5115 A408) writes:
: I think also that the best idea is to have crossing names on alt and rec groups.
: Bonsai are not my job at Electricite de France - Direction des Etudes et Recherches ! 
: It's the same for many readers and writers and listeners : it's a hobby !
: We have to give our time first for job and after for bonsai.
: In the same way, our news administrators accept easily "serious" groups" as alt.*
: Reminber what happened in December with Mike account!
: 

Crossposting is nice but increases traffic...
Would it be possible to set up a mailing list to mirror the (eventual) rec.?.?
group?  We do it in sci.lang.japan and it works well, as there is not a very
large amount of trafic (nor is there here, relatively speaking).  This way
those not receiving rec.* could 'subscribe' and not miss out (posting works 
fine to, via mail to the group).

Otherwise, I tend to agree to the crossposting solution (we receive both 
alt.* and rec.*) as the audience would be increased substatially without 
losing existing 'fans'.  :-)

Regards,
-- 
--
Thor Legvold                 |    This is the strangest life
NorNeXT User Group leader    |    I've ever known...
University of Bergen         |         - Jim Morrison,
From: bil@jetson.Eng.Sun.COM (William Shannon(temp))
Newsgroups: alt.bonsai
Subject: Re: Is anybody there????
Date: 25 Jan 1993 19:32:32 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: bil@jetson.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: jetson

 Hi Jackie,
	Groves of trees are fairly easy, but Maples exude a chemical
that is poisonous ( or at least unfriendly) to other plant life, so they
should be in an all maple grove.  As far as the Quince is concerned
"try it you'll like it", just be careful not to damage the parent.
	O.K.
	bil dbad1

Newsgroups: alt.bonsai
From: janet@ntmtv.UUCP (Janet Jakstys)
Subject: When is the best time to...
Organization: Northern Telecom Inc, Mountain View, CA
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 23:16:53 GMT

I'm a bit confused on when to do certain bonsai activities.
When is the best time to transplant?
When is the best time to take cuttings?
When is the best time to do major pruning?

i.e. before, during, or after the growing season?
-- 
**********************************************************************
Janet Jakstys         UUCP:{ames,pyramid!amdahl,hplabs}!ntmtv!janet
Northern Telecom      INTERNET:ntmtv!janet@ames.arc.nasa.gov
Mtn. View, CA.

**********************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.bonsai
From: moreland@conan.jsc.nasa.gov (Linda Moreland)
Subject: Re: a beginners question
Organization: NASA Johnson Space Center
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 20:52:44 GMT

In article <C1H32q.6t5@sunfish.usd.edu> mgranaas@charlie.usd.edu writes:
>Hi all,
>I just recently discovered this list, so I'm not sure what all has been
>discussed.  I do know that I like the looks of the bonsai trees that i've
>seen, and would like to try growing one on my own.  (I've even bought a 
>couple of books on the topic, but never got to far.)  So, if you'll
>allow me to impose, I have a couple of questions about getting started:
>
>	1.  If I want to succeed with my next attempt at bonsai should I
>	    purchase a tree that has already been started by someone else,
>	    or do I buy something from the nursery and do my own dirty work?
>
	It is more fun and satifying if you get an unfinished one and
	train it yourself.  If you have the $$, get a finished one
	and an unfinished one.  So you can have one that already looks
	good, and one that you can train yourself.  

	I only had "in training" ones when I got started until 
	someone came over and looked at them and commented that they 
	don't look like the ones they saw in "karate Kid"  :-)
	So now I have one that looks like a bonsai in "Karate Kid"
	and a bunch that don't.

>	2.  I live in the upper midwest (read COLD winters), what sort of 
>	    trees are best suited to indoor living (currently a nice 
>	    southern exposure)?  Are there any trees that can tolerate winter
>	    in a pot?
>
	When we lived in Iowa, we had serissa, ficus, chinese elms, and
	boxwoods for indoor bonsai.  They are did pretty good.  

	My zelkova didn't survive it's 2nd Iowa winter.  But we were
	moving so I didn't bury it like I did the 1st year.  My
	Amur Maples enjoyed the cold winter.  I also have a white birch
	grove that really like the cold.
	
>I'm sure there is more, but I can't think of them right now.
>
>The suggestion of cross posting to both an alt.* and rec.* list appeals
>to me.
>

I agree.

>Thanks
>
>Mike

-- 
---------------------------
Linda Moreland	
(713)244-5283		
Intelligent Systems Branch
From: cabhhmm@cli74aa.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Michele Morin 5115 A408)
Newsgroups: alt.bonsai
Subject: Re: pomegranate
Date: 27 Jan 93 08:57:19 GMT
Organization: EDF Direction des Etudes et Recherches

In article <1k4oorINN3bj@male.EBay.Sun.COM>, tmkelly@shootist.EBay.Sun.COM (Tk) writes:
|> In article 728076508@rwzl12, daane@sysmanzl.zld.rws.nl (Bert Daane) writes:
|> > 
|> > I have a pomegranate-tree (punica granatum) of 19 years old.
|> > It never blossomed and i wonder if it ever will.
|> > Is there anybody who knows how i can make it blossom ??
|> > Another question: is it possible to leave this tree outside at
|> > temperatures below 0 C (till about -5 C)?
|> 
|> 
|> It should not be exposed to temperatures colder than 10 degrees C (about 45-50 F)... 
|> 
|> According to my books, if you want flowers/fruit DO NOT prune after spring growth
|> even though the tree begins to look stingy or gangly.  Trim and prune *hard* after
|> flowering/fruit process is done to regain the desired compact appearance.
|> 
|> (I don't have experience with the pomegranate, I looked it up in two texts.)
|> 
|> Good luck!
|> 
|>  Tk

I agree with this answer : in south of France, you can see pomegranate-tree 
in the gardens because in the winter, the colder is generally around 0 degrees C.
I don't have punica but 2 malus cerasifera. The first one, about 30 years old,
4 meters high ( and last past year, we prune it hardly!) is in the garden : the
flowers are purple and also the little apples. With the most colder winter ( -15 C)
it don't have any problem. The second one, 18 years old, 30 centimeters high, give
white and rose flowers and red apples but .... in the winter, it stay outdoor with
protection around its pot, on the soil if temperature is announced to fall under
0 degrees C. In spring, I never prune it, admire the flowers and later cut new 
branches keeping only 2 or 4 leaves.  I hope tha next spring you'll do the same
with your "grenadier" (french name).

Michele

michele.morin@der.edf.fr
From: mgranaas@charlie.usd.edu
Newsgroups: alt.bonsai
Subject: a beginners question
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:54:25 GMT
Reply-To: mgranaas@charlie.usd.edu
Organization: The University of South Dakota Computer Science Dept.

Hi all,
I just recently discovered this list, so I'm not sure what all has been
discussed.  I do know that I like the looks of the bonsai trees that i've
seen, and would like to try growing one on my own.  (I've even bought a 
couple of books on the topic, but never got to far.)  So, if you'll
allow me to impose, I have a couple of questions about getting started:

	1.  If I want to succeed with my next attempt at bonsai should I
	    purchase a tree that has already been started by someone else,
	    or do I buy something from the nursery and do my own dirty work?

	2.  I live in the upper midwest (read COLD winters), what sort of 
	    trees are best suited to indoor living (currently a nice 
	    southern exposure)?  Are there any trees that can tolerate winter
	    in a pot?

I'm sure there is more, but I can't think of them right now.

The suggestion of cross posting to both an alt.* and rec.* list appeals
to me.

Thanks

Mike
From: cs688@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michel Bartolone)
Newsgroups: alt.bonsai
Subject: FAQ News and notes
Date: 24 Jan 93 15:47:00 GMT
Reply-To: cs688@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michel Bartolone)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


FAQ Notes (Changes and info about the FAQ)

The FAQ has been reformatted to a 65 character line so I can 
post it from my Freenet account. 

Munerous pytos (Numerous typos) have been corrected, and one 
additional question has been answered. 

There are still a few questions that need answers, so if you 
have time, type one up and mail it to me for inclusion in the 
FAQ. 

You don't have to be a total bonsai expert to answer a FAQ,
you just need to have an answer to one question! And
considering the very low flame level of this group, it would
be a good place to make your mistakes!

Please tell me if you want to be listed in the contributors 
when you write.

The FAQ has also been broken into 5 pieces to avoid mail
mangler problems. and when you look at it you will notice
that it will be very easy to know if a piece made it to you
intact.

As always..send additions, and corrections to me, preferably
via e-mail (but if that costs you money, you can just post
it). All of my Freenet mail will get forwarded to my
other account, so it doesn't matter which one you use.

Starting two weeks from now, I will institute the use of
change-bars to show which sections of the FAQ have been 
modified. If you want the diff output that I used to post,
let me know and I can make it available to you.

If your name was supposed to be in the FAQ under contributors,
or if you sent me a correction/addition, or change and it
isn't in the FAQ, drop me another note. A hardware malfunction
caused me to lose a directory or two..one of which was the
FAQ things I was working on...thank god for back-ups!
(Too bad you can't make a back-up of a tree before you start
 working on it!;)
                                              Mike
                                              
-- 
Mike Bartolone bartlone@gemed.ge.com
Newsgroups: alt.bonsai
From: cabhhmm@cli74aa.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Michele Morin 5115 A408)
Subject: Re: Moving alt.bonsai to rec.arts.bonsai
Organization: EDF Direction des Etudes et Recherches
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 08:51:59 GMT

I think also that the best idea is to have crossing names on alt and rec groups.
Bonsai are not my job at Electricite de France - Direction des Etudes et Recherches ! 
It's the same for many readers and writers and listeners : it's a hobby !
We have to give our time first for job and after for bonsai.
In the same way, our news administrators accept easily "serious" groups" as alt.*
Reminber what happened in December with Mike account!

About  FAQ, Michel asked for translation : I can do that in french, but I want
to know how many people are interesrted with. OK ?

Bye.

Michele
From: dimento@cs.tu-berlin.de (Christian Moskal)
Newsgroups: alt.bonsai
Subject: FAQ, archive site?
Date: 28 Jan 1993 13:31:14 GMT
Organization: Technical University of Berlin, Germany
NNTP-Posting-Host: tick.cs.tu-berlin.de

Hello,

is there a FAQ available or an archive site being maintained? Any pointers
are greatly appreciated.

Kindest Regards
-- Chris
-- 
Christian Moskal, PIS Inc., Tel# ++49 (0)30-451-4488, Fax# ++49 (0)30-451-4692,
#*-->         Internet: dimento@cs.tu-berlin.de, CIS: 100115,3153         <--*#
'Es gibt keinen Weg zum Frieden, denn Frieden ist der Weg.'; Mohandas K. Gandhi
From: daane@sysmanzl.zld.rws.nl (Bert Daane)
Newsgroups: alt.bonsai
Subject: pomegranate
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:28:28 GMT


I have a pomegranate-tree (punica granatum) of 19 years old.
It never blossomed and i wonder if it ever will.
Is there anybody who knows how i can make it blossom ??
Another question: is it possible to leave this tree outside at
temperatures below 0 C (till about -5 C)?
From: cs688@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michel Bartolone)
Newsgroups: alt.bonsai
Subject: Re: When is the best time to...
Date: 23 Jan 1993 02:02:06 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Janet,

    All that I have read suggests that you you should prune
and wire just at the start of the growing season, for MOST
trees, and for a few almost any time during the season is OK,
so it depends on the type of tree...
                                           Mike
-- 
Mike Bartolone bartlone@gemed.ge.com
From: tmkelly@shootist.EBay.Sun.COM (Tk)
Newsgroups: alt.bonsai
Subject: Re: Groves and Forests (was "...there????")
Date: 21 Jan 1993 17:14:09 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: tmkelly@shootist.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: shootist.ebay.sun.com

The latest Bonsai Today magazine is out, and almost the entire magazine is
devoted to Forests and Group plantings.

It's $7.95 US at your local Bonsai shop, probably... 

or you can order this or back issues from:  Stone Lantern Publishing Company
					    PO Box 816
					    Sudbury, MA 01776   (USA)
				
					    They *do* mail worldwide.

					    or phone 508-443-7110

					    (I am not affiliated, just helpful)

There are quite a number of sources advertised for tools, pots, trees, soil, etc.
in addition to the Gallery photos of *GREAT* trees, and interesting articles.

Enjoy...

Tk
From: cczcole@mips.nott.ac.uk (Marlon Cole)
Newsgroups: alt.bonsai
Subject: Re: Is anybody there????
Date: 22 Jan 93 14:46:05 GMT
Reply-To: cczcole@mips.nott.ac.uk (Marlon Cole)
Organization: Nottingham University

In article <1jk116INN3bj@male.EBay.Sun.COM>, tmkelly@shootist.EBay.Sun.COM (Thomas McCabe Kelly) writes:
|> In article 20616@netcom.com, aldridge@netcom.com (Jacquelyn Aldridge) writes:
|> >
|> > 	I'd like to plant a grove of some kind of tree. Does anyone have
|> > any ideas about this. Should I choose a deep pot or something shallower. I
|> > don't mind if it's 20+ inches wide since I like large, scenic bonsai. 
|> > 
|> They do not require deeper pots than normal, in fact, I believe it is 
|> the opposite... generally (not for all species necessarily) the pot is
|> relatively shallow.  
|> 

   Just a quick tuppenth worth at this point - some of the best group plantings
I've seen both in the flesh ("in the bark"?) and in books have involved the
container not being a pot at all, but a slab of rock of some sort, for
instance a piece of slate.  Alternatively (and probably cheaper :-), I've even
seen a planting on a cross-section of a tree trunk (cut about an inch thick,
and at an angle so that it's oval-shaped rather than round).
   Being a flat container the soil, roots, moss, etc. must then be built up
from that base and thus appears as a hump or dome with a bunch of trees on
top.  This gives a very pleasing impression of a copse on a hilltop and has a
very natural feel to it.

   Hope this helps,

                       marlon

------------
Marlon Cole                  email:  cczcole@unicorn.nott.ac.uk or
Systems Programmer                   cczcole@uk.ac.nott.unicorn depending.....
Cripps Computing Centre
University of Nottingham
NOTTINGHAM. NG7 2RD
England
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:11:22 EST
From: <BXH13@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.bonsai
Subject: winter storage

Each year I store my bonsai laying them out in my yard & covering most of each
plant with spagnum or leaves. This alows nature to do the watering. This has be
en very successful. I am considering bringing the plants indoors earlier in the
 season to increase the length of their growing season for obvious reasons. Can
 anyone suggest a process for doing this & how soon should I start?

Thanks in advance.
Newsgroups: alt.bonsai
From: cabhhmm@cli74aa.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Michele Morin 5115 A408)
Subject: Re: Is anybody there????
Followup-To: alt.bonsai
Organization: EDF Direction des Etudes et Recherches
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 10:36:12 GMT

In article <1993Jan19.213359.27414@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>, kell@lark.jsc.nasa.gov (TED KELL) writes:
|> Hello........is anybody here?????   This group has been awfully quiet for
|> several days.  I don't say much (kind of a lurker) but, rather, listen and
|> learn.  I hope this group hasn't gone away.  
|> 

No : this group is always alive and Mike Bartlone has found a new account 
to connect with news.
But I think that bonsai are not your job at NASA Johnson Space Flight Center ? 
It's the same for many readers and writers and listeners : it's a hobby !
We have to give our time first for job and after for bonsai.

|> By the way, I picked up a book at Half Price Books the other day.  It is called
|> "Popular Bonsai" by ????.  Has anyone seen it and have any comments??
|>
I'm in France ... Perhaps the same book exists here, but I haven't seen it.

|> Please reply in this group, there isn't enought activity here to have to go
|> to email.
|>
Yes, I do ! 
|> Thanks
|> 
|> Ted Kell  kell@lark.jsc.nasa.gov

Bye !
Michele    michele.morin@der.edf.fr


Newsgroups: alt.bonsai
From: fdhammitt@happy.colorado.edu
Subject: <None>
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: 25 Jan 93 13:50:07 MDT

I am getting ready to join the Bonsai culture -- two questions

	Is anybody familiar with working with Aspens?  As the Colorado state
tree I would like to use them as a Bonsai source.

	Are there any Bonsai groups specifi to Colorado?  Our climate and
altitude may pose unique problems and I would like to get area specific
information on resources, if available.

For what it is worth, I've appreciated the information I have gotten already --
the FAQ and references already have me well on my way to being well-read, now I
just have to go out and get the materials to get started.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
#                                             |                               !
#  FRANK D. HAMMITT, SAFETY OFFICER	      |	OFFICIAL DISCLAIMER:          !
#  RISK MANAGEMENT SECTION		      |	ALL VIEWS EXPRESSED IN THIS   !
#  DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY		      | POSTING ARE STRICTLY MY OWN   !
#  UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO, COLORADO SPRINGS   | AND ARE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED   !
#  1420 AUSTIN BLUFFS PARKWAY, P.O. BOX 7150  |	TO OFFICIALLY REPRESENT MY    !
#  COLORADO SPRINGS, CO   80933-7150 	      | PEERS, SUPERVISORS, OR UCCS!  !
#  (719) 593-3525	FAX: (719) 593-3362   | /S/	FRANK D. HAMMITT      !
#                                             |                               !
===============================================================================
*                                                                             *
*  "Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man ... that with well doing ye   *
*  may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men."  I Peter 2:13,15 (KJV)   *
*                                                                             *
*******************************************************************************
From: coyote@smurf.sti.com (Ron Lussier)
Newsgroups: alt.bonsai
Subject: Japanese watering cans: sources?
Date: 20 Jan 1993 20:33:33 -0800
Organization: National Man-Smurf Love Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: smurf.sti.com

Howdy,

Does anyone know of companies which stock japanese watering cans and the
ultra-fine roses for them?  I am getting to the point where watering my plants
from a jar isn't good for the soil or my mental health.  Thanks!

Ron
-- 
Ron 'Coyote' Lussier            /|               Software Transformation
coyote@sti.com                 / |      1601 Saratoga-Sunnyvale Rd, #100
(408) 973-8081 x315           /__\                   Cupertino, CA 95014
From: bil@jetson.Eng.Sun.COM (William Shannon(temp))
Newsgroups: alt.bonsai
Subject: Re: FAQ (for real this time)
Date: 25 Jan 1993 19:35:45 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: bil@jetson.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: jetson

	Hi David,

  No, I gave the tree away to an ex's mother and
she murdered it. :-(
	O.K.
	bil dbad1

Newsgroups: alt.bonsai