From: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re:  Why I gave up on my People (was Re: Another Holocaust)
Summary: Not a good reason to give up
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 07:20:09 GMT

In article <_-jm_ah.madhaus@netcom.com> madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann) writes:

# makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

# : In article <1992Jul16.225143.6540@unixland.natick.ma.us> sharon@unixland.natick.ma.us (Sharon Machlis Gartenberg) writes:
 
# : # I don't understand your assumption that any Jew who worries about people
# : # other than Jews, somehow does not care about the Jewish people. 
 
# : 	Well if they do care, at the very least they have a strange way of
# : showing it.  At the most, they have their priorities screwed up.  For
# : just one example (out of many), plenty of Jews were arrested
# : protesting policies in South Africa.  Most of these Jews did not do
# : anything for Soviet Jews, in fact many criticized some attempts on
# : behalf of Soviet Jews.  I really do not know why I have to remind you
# : of this since it is well known and documented.
 
# And I do not have to quote any reference since they are intuitively
# obvious to even the most casual observer. <sarcasm> 

	Do you actually deny what I wrote?  If you really want me to I can
dig up some examples, but I should not have to.  These were well
publicized.

# : # >	It is not a matter of caring, it is a matter of priorities.  As to
# : # >building a better world, worry about your own home first.
 
# : # First? Or only?
 
# : 	"First".  However, there are only 24 hours in a day, so it may be a
# : (completely legitimate) de fact "only".  I should not have to note
# : this however.  It should be obvious.
 
# You know, this is the reason I stopped going to synogogue, moved away
# from the NY metro area, and pretty much dropped out of the Jewish
# Community.  David, your attitudes and opinions are, in my opinion,
# offensive.  If you have so little regard for you fellow man, then
# at least consider that it is your selfish and provincial mindset
# that have alienated many Jews of my generation from the community. 
 
	I do not know what you are talking about, however, if that is the
reason you did those things, than you did them for a poor, in fact non
existent, reason.  Nothing in my attitudes or opinions show little
regard for my fellow man, or are of a selfish and provincial mindset
that have alienated many Jews from the Jewish community.  Those that
are offended by my views, and actually understand them, are already
alienated.

# If I am to commit the time, effort and resources it takes to join a
# group, you can bet it will be one that is a force for good and not
# evil.  David, I believe your attitude toward humanity is EVIL.  Your
# responses to Sharon are disrespectful, and you are disgracing your
# own people.  

	My responses are realistic and as they should be.  Either you do
not understand them, you have no concept of ahavat yisrael, and/or you
simply do not care, in which case it is you that is evil.

# I hope most of the Jews reading this group are more enlightened
# than David, and that the "Us first, everyone else last or not at all"
# attitude I grew up with is purged from the collective consciousness.

	I do not believe in "everyone not at all".  However, those of us
who do not believe in "Us first" are contributing to our destruction.

# : 	I hope it is not bigoted, as I am not a bigot.  However, bogoted
# : or not, it is correct.
 
# You are a bigot, David.

	I will repeat myself than.  I hope I am not a bigot.  However,
bigoted or not, I am correct.

# What you call FACT is your selective editing
# of history.

	Now you are just too much.  Where have I done any editing of
history in this thread, selective or not?

# Sure, Jews got a raw deal throughout their history.

	Gee, what a keen and insightful observation!

# And
# so did other groups.

	What are you trying to do?  Is this some sort of suffering
competition?

# Your view on the world is bigoted because you
# deliberately ignore any information on how any other group suffered,

	Where have I done this?

# and you also ignore FACTS about how the Jews persecuted other groups
# when they were in power in ancient Jerusalem.

	Let us assume (for the sake of argument only) that your usage of the word
"persecuted" is correct.  Where have I ignored this, and better yet,
why is it even relevent to this particular thread?

# I don't blame the Jews
# for this

	Gee, that is very nice of you!

# because it is human nature to oppress others.

	That's right.  It is my (and yours, and his, etc.) nature to
oppress others.  You seem to know us all real well.

# Heck, look
# at what is happening to the Palestinians now; proof that *all* of us
# are capable of both suffering and doing great evil.

	The only proof provided by the above statement of yours is your
ignorance.  Any suffering by the "palestinians?" is the fault of their
own leadership or their Arab bretheren.  However, that paragraph does
at least let us all know where you are coming from.

# Don't event bother replying, David; it's obvious you have no interest
# in anything other than perpetuation your hateful attitudes. 

	I did "bother" replying.  I guess it shows you really do not know
me that well after all.
--

David Makowsky
makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu