HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: John_Morgan@mindlink.bc.ca (John Morgan)
Subject: None
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 04:20:55 GMT

The following is posted for one of my Scout as part of the Gold Citizen
Achievment Award.  Any response can be sent to me and I'll forward it to the
necessary party.  Thanks in advance.

November 9, 1992

        Hi my name is Jeremy Bieber.  I would like to communicate with a
scout from Australia.  I am a member of the 4th West Whalley Scout Troop in
Surrey, British Columbia, Canada.  I am 13 years old and live in a big blue
house.  I have blonde hair and am 5 feet 3 inches tall.  I wear braces and
the bands are blue.  I have a brother that is 10 years old.  I play soccer
ant the position I play is midfield.  My favorite basketball team is Chicago
Bulls.  My favorite basketball player is Micheal Jordan.  I am in band and I
have a nintendo game system and 5 video games for it.  I like to collect lots
of hockey cards.  In the summer I like to swim and go rollerblading.  I like
to read adventure, mystery and comic books.

Jeremy Bieber, 4th West Whalley Troop, Fraser Valley Region
Surrey, British Columbia, Canada


John Morgan, 4th West Whalley Scouts, Fraser Valley Region, Surrey, BC,
Canada

--
######################################################################
#                        #                   ARMY                    #
#  John Morgan           #              Another fine game            #
#  a345@mindlink.uucp    #              By Milton Bradley            #
#                        #                 Ages 17 & up              #
########################################
From: crenn@hpcuhc.cup.hp.com (Charley Renn)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 23:41:40 GMT
Subject: Re: Last minute Den Meeting planning
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.scouting

     Dwight,
	Why not plan a couple of "pop-out" meetings that you can just
pop out when you get behind?  These meetings could be related to arrow
points, or outdoor activities, or preparing for upcoming pack events
like the pinewood derby or blue&gold.  You might have them work on 
their den flag, or their den yell, or practice knots, put together a 
skit for a future pack meeting, do a science project (like shooting
corks from bottles with vinegar and baking soda or making potatoe guns).
Don't feel constrained to work on advancement, or always have an opening,
a game, a closing, etc.  And don't overlook field trips as a great way
to keep the boys excited.

Charley Renn, COR - Pack 390, San Jose, CA

** Not a den leader.  But, my wife is, and I took den 10 to the 
   CUB-U-REE last saturday!  cr

Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: lfw@pssparc2.mitek.com (Larry Weiss)
Subject: Re: Sad News - Green Bar Bill is dead
Organization: OpenConnect Systems, Dallas, TX
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:59:46 GMT

bk233@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jack W. Weinmann) writes:


>I have met many great Scouters in the years that I have been in the
>movement, but Bill was without a doubt the ultimate Scouter of our time.

>His wisdom will be missed, but let us all see to it that his spirit lives on.

I am sorry that I did not have the honor of knowing him.  For those like
myself, could you please give us some of the highlights of Bill's
scouting contributions?   That way, his influence will never cease.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo)
Subject: Re: Standards  (Was: More on God)
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 16:57:44 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Nov5.171513.14303@sei.cmu.edu> rsd@sei.cmu.edu (Richard S D'Ippolito) writes:
>Here's one for you folks to ponder:  The opinion has been expressed here (by
>others) that they do not want to start their own groups because the BSA is
>such a high-quality, exciting, successful, and attractive organization.  Do
>you not think that the membership standards might have something to do with
>it?
   Part of the idea behind starting the other groups was not just for the 
reasons you state above, (now who's twisting meaning and words) but the 
simple idea that to start seperate organizations takes so long, and would
be counter-productive and could possibly be labeled with stigma, and thus 
would do no good.  
  Now, as far as the membership standards, they really don't have an impact 
on the organization being so good, or have you never worked with pro scouters?
Many are extremely intelligent hard-working well meaning individuals, but 
many ohters are incompetent.  Maybe it was just the three councils I worked
with, but in two of them, the level of problems and political infighting and 
incompetence was astounding.  The third was not so bad, but it was like any
other work-place I had seen.  
   No, the high standing of the troops (not I'm talking units here) are 
gained individually, and most deserve it.  It isn't becuse of the membership 
rules, it's becuse of the structure of the program itself, which teaches
maturity, leadership,a nd caring.  If you truely believe that it is some
sort of membership status that makes the scouting program as good as it is, 
then you are setting yourself up for being more and more elitest, in which
case you might as well stop the inner-city outreach programs, and other 
similar programs.  If someone wants to join the elite, let them come to 
you.  Sorry, no, I don't beleive you really think this way.  (At least I 
hope not!)  The only exceptions the BSA currently has to it's membership
is females (until Explorer programs), atheists and lesbigays.  Now are
you going to tell me that by excluding girls from troops that is a 
reason for the high standards of the BSA?  I don't think  this is what
you mean, but it is what you've said.  

WWW
Dominick V. Zurlo
Eagle Scout '87
blacklisted '88
"If the World's my oyster, why am I allergic to Mollusks?"
From: hilding@catfish.ocpt.ccur.com (Hilding Holroyd)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Coming Full Circle?
Summary: Troop Sponsors
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:50:57 GMT
Organization: Concurrent Computer ,Oceanport NJ

In article <_s#q-lq@lynx.unm.edu>, anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo) writes:
> ....  To allow the individual units the autonomy
> to choose leaders is important to the basic infrastructure of the BSA.  
> THe local leaders are from the community, are members of the community, and
> the BSA should not dictate to the local community who should be their
> role models and leaders.  ANyone disagree on this?  Now, the BSA has a 
> policy to exclude lesbigays.  that interferres with the local community 
> which may or may not have lesbigays who are qualified and willing to be 
> leaders, and acceptable to the community (see San Diego).  
>    Now, a troop is being sponsored (this is hypothetical) by the Metropolitan
> Community Church, and the scoutmaster is gay.  the BSA says no.  WHy.  Two
> reasons.  1). the scoutmaster has violated BSA policy and can not hold 
> his position if he is gay.  2). MCC is a predominately lesbigay oriented 
> non-denominational Christian Church.  Now, most of the boys in this troop
> are the children of lesbigays.  In this scenario, the parents rights have 
> been abandoned and disallowed by the BSA.  Is this a right or wrong 
> situation?  It is wrong in that it has violated the BSA's stance of serving
> the boys primarily and foremost. 
> 

First of all, I have to "disallow" your second point. I submit that a
local council would NOT grant a charter to this hypothetical church.
This, in turn, would also negate your first point - no charter means no
troop which means no SM. Since your premise cannot occur, your 
arguments and conclusions are not valid.

Let me pose a question.

How many children of lesbigays have been denied membership in the BSA
based solely upon their PARENTs' lifestyle? 
If this has occurred, I whole-heartedly support that this is wrong,
assuming, of course, that these children have not openly declared
that they, themselves, are lesbigay.
I think that we really need some (substantiated!) statistics to prove
some points that are presented, on both sides of the argument.

-- 

US MAIL: Hilding W. Holroyd - CONCURRENT COMPUTER CORP.(Ex MASSCOMP,Interdata)
FAX: 908-870-5952    2 Crescent Place, Oceanport NJ 07757   PH 908-870-4558 
UUCP:  rutgers.edu!ocpt!holroyd    or   Internet:  holroyd@ocpt.ccur.com
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: jfarmer@fraser.sfu.ca (Jason Michael Farmer)
Subject: Re: Rovering Membership
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 23:04:50 GMT

cs911275@ariel.yorku.ca (MICHAEL A MACDONALD) writes:

>  If I was asked a year ago, how the membership in my crew was, I woud tell
>them that our membership was  going through the floor. (I had left my crew
>for a year due to financial reasons. Ie. Registration was too much. 
>) As of about august, I brought 3 new squires into our crew (2 of them were
>female, and as a resuult we decided to go co-ed) We have also, since our
>decision to go co-ed, had had to get a female advisor. I forsee our membership
>will rise as time goes on. The 3 new squires are very positive about the
>crew. Since the arrival of the new squires, our crew has seen an increase in
>the amount of "life" we have.

I attended the Provincial Roundtable meeting and found that all regions 
except for a couple in the interior of B.C. and the Yukon are showing increases
in their member ship.  In my opinion this is a very good sign.

 
-- 
Jason Farmer                 |  Daisemi'in rhhaensuriuu
jfarmer@fraser.sfu.ca        |      meillunsiateve
Simon Fraser University      |           Rh'e Mnhei'sahe yie ahr'en:
Burnaby, British Columbia    |  
Canada                       |   Mnahe afw'ein qiuu;
                             |      rh'e hweithnaef
                             |           mrht Heis'he ehl'ein qiuu.

Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: gjh@ukc.ac.uk (G.J.Harewood)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: A Scout is Tolerant?
Date: 12 Nov 92 02:08:36 GMT
Organization: Computing Lab, University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.

In article <1dr2tdINN6d1@nuala.hal.COM> juan@hal.COM (John Thompson Reynolds) writes:
>
>Maybe we need a 13th point to the Scout Law?
>
>Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly,
>Curteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, 
>Thrify, Brave, Clean, Reverent, 
>and sometimes Tolerant?
>
>One would have thought that Curteous and Kind would have
>been enough, but apparently they aren't.

I think the British version ir probably more comprehensive; the
following is embarrassingly paraphrased since I do not have it to hand...
learning it was never compulsary at my troop:

A Scout is Loyal.
A Scout is to be trusted.
A Scout makes good use of his time and is careful of possessions and property.
A Scout is ??? and has courage in all difficulties.
A Scout is friendly and considerate.
A Scout has respect for himself and for others.
A Scout is a brother to all Scouts.


Several of these seem very relevant; why is the BSA version so scant?
Even more interesting perhaps is the original version (which I do have to
hand!)...

 1. A Scout's honour is to be trusted.
 2. A Scout is loyal to the Queen, his country, his Scouters, his parents,
    his employers, and to those under him.
 3. A Scout's duty is to be useful and to help others.
 4. A Scout is a friend to all, and a brother to every other Scout, no matter
    to what country, class or creed the other may belong.
 5. A Scout is courteous.
 6. A Scout is a friend to animals.
 7. A Scout obeys orders of his parents, Patrol Leader, or Scoutmaster without
    question.
 8. A Scout smiles and whistles under all difficulties.
 9. A Scout is thrifty.
10. A Scout is clean in thought, word and deed.


Enlightening stuff eh? Now try to justify your prejudices in terms of anything
other than narrow mindedness...

In Scouting,

Greg
ASL
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: graham@ravel.udel.edu (Graham McK Segroves)
Subject: More homosexuality opinions that don't belong in rec.scouting...
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 05:52:05 GMT

Someone made a couple of assertions recently that many people will not agree
with when they consider the facts, and they were something like this:

> 1. Homosexuality is immoral; and
> 2. We have control of our own behavior and should know right from wrong.

I do _not_ think homsexuality is immoral (I am heterosexual). I can understand
the arguments of those who say that it is _unnatural_, given that homosexual
contact is not nature's way of providing for our species' survival. (I do not 
necessarily agree, but I understand.) But while I can see the logic in saying
that homosexuality may be unnatural, I understand the fundamental difference   
between _unnatural_ and _immoral_. Just because something is unnatural does
not mean that it's immoral. Plastic, for example, isn't natural, but few would
seriously say that it's immoral. Religion does not occur in nature, but I
dare not try telling a churchgoer that he is immoral because of that fact.

I would also hesitate to label homosexuality as "behavior" in the wake of
scientific studies pointing to the possibilty that it is instead a _genetic_
characteristic. If it indeed is, then, no, we _don't_ have control over it.
Homosexuality would therefore be not a matter of right or wrong, since it would
thus be a _natural_occurrence_. But the scientific jury is still out on this
one.

One thing is plain to me: those statements I quoted from another article
_ARE_NOT_ givens. The attempt to use them to justify BSA policy shows a lack
of depth, not to mention compassion.

GRAHAM
Eagle '91
University of Delaware.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: hunter@master.lds-az.loral.com (Bill Hunter)
Subject: Re: More homosexuality opinions that don't belong in rec.scouting...
Followup-To: rec.scouting
Organization: Loral Defense Systems - Arizona
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 15:10:28 GMT

In article <BxJEyu.6MG@news.udel.edu>, graham@ravel.udel.edu (Graham McK
Segroves) wrote:
> 
> Someone made a couple of assertions recently that many people will not agree
> with when they consider the facts, and they were something like this:
> 
> > 1. Homosexuality is immoral; and
> > 2. We have control of our own behavior and should know right from wrong.
> 
The day kids have control over their behavior is the day I will be the
happiest Scoutmaster in the world.

Bill Hunter
Scoutmaster, The Vertical Edge
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: jfarmer@fraser.sfu.ca (Jason Michael Farmer)
Subject: Rovers
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:33:36 GMT

What do you other Rovers out there find to be the best method of recruiting new
members from younger sections and from outside of Scouting?

Jason Farmer
11th Sur-Del "Errant Knights" Rover Crew


-- 
Jason Farmer                 |  Daisemi'in rhhaensuriuu
jfarmer@fraser.sfu.ca        |      meillunsiateve
Simon Fraser University      |           Rh'e Mnhei'sahe yie ahr'en:
Burnaby, British Columbia    |  
Canada                       |   Mnahe afw'ein qiuu;
                             |      rh'e hweithnaef
                             |           mrht Heis'he ehl'ein qiuu.

Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: hunter@master.lds-az.loral.com (Bill Hunter)
Subject: Venture Crew
Followup-To: rec.scouting
Organization: Loral Defense Systems - Arizona
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:50:40 GMT

I have started a Venture Crew.  As a Scoutmaster of a High Adventure Troop
I see no problem from an activity viewpoint.  However, I can't find any
literature at our council on the "program."  Anyone out there no something
on program, advancement, etc?

Bill Hunter
Scoutmaster, The Vertical Edge
Loral Defense Systems - Arizona
1300 S. Litchfield Rd.
Goodyear, AZ  85338
PH 602 925 7929  Fax 602 925 6988
From: TYOUNG@auvm.american.edu
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Washington State Scouts
Date: 11 Nov 92 22:31:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: auvm.92316.173140TYOUNG
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center

I am currently at college in Washington, DC and I was wondering whether
they are any Scouts/Scouters from the Washington State who use this
news group - specifically from the Tumwater Area Council.

I'm an ASM in Troop #373 of Chehalis, WA and was just checking if there is
anyone I know back home who reads this - if so send me a message either
through the net or e-mail.

In Scouting,
Eagle Scout Todd Young, ASM
A rpoud Sasquatch and member of Tillicum Lodge #392
From: kati@glnserv.UUCP (Lady Dragon)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Girls in Scouting
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 08:33:15 CST
Organization: Vermi-net, Houston, Tx. 77098

jsgoldma@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeremy Goldman) writes:

> As a BOY scout, I have many problems in allowing girls into my troop.  I
> am not sexist in any way, and I believe that women are just as capable as
> men to camp, play sports, and do all the other things we do in scouts.
> The problem would be this:
> I have many girls that are friends, and when I am around them, my guy
> friends and I are always sure to act proper, and NEVER immature.  To me,
> that's what scouting is all about..  Being able to act yourself, not
> trying to impress anyone.  Allowing girls into scouts would ruin the
> atmosphere of freedom.  Equally, I don't think that boys should be
> permitted to join a girl scout group for the same reason.
> This is my opinion... What's your's?
>
> Jeremy     --    jsgoldma@nyx.cs.du.edu
> (Write me anytime)
> p.s.  I love amil
>

I agree with you. It's important to have a time when you can "let your hair
down". As for being able to do what "men" do at camp, we do many of the same
things at Girl Scout camp and have a wonderful time doing it too.

* * email address: nuchat!xcluud!glnserv!kati * Houston, Texas, USA, Earth * *
From: hunter@master.lds-az.loral.com (Bill Hunter)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Coming Full Circle?
Date: 12 Nov 92 02:33:35 GMT
Followup-To: rec.scouting
Organization: Loral Defense Systems - Arizona


>  
> For those others reading this, I apologise for my outburst, but as
> a survivor of child abuse I am offended and outraged at this 
> libelous post of Stan's.  I ask that if this continues that 
> this group become regulated.  and to Danny, what would that 
> entail.  
> 
No one "type" of person has a monopoly on child abuse.  I have seen all
kinds by all types.  The worst, most constant offense I see is having boys
make fools of themselves at camporee campfires in order to get a lost
article returned.  Various areas use different names for this.  We stopped
it in our Council several years ago.

Just an example.

Bill Hunter
Scoutmaster, The Vertical Edge
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb)
Subject: Re: Standards  (Was: More on God)
Keywords: BSA policy religion
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 02:06:23 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.180104.941@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> mayne@cs.fsu.edu writes:
>Read it again. It implies exactly what I said it implies. "X is necessary
>to Y" then without X you can't have Y. It further says that "the best type
>of citizenship" is impossible for Buddhists and members of other religions
>outside the Judaic/Christian/Islamic fold.
>
Bill,
  I think that you may be hung up here on a stump and you are having
so much fun reving the engine and watching the tires spin that you
have forgotten about getting off. If there were a hypothetical
Scout Association, let's call it the Buddhist Scout Association (BSA for
short ;-), and  they said,

"Every member of the BSA must show the proper respect for the Buddha *"

"* The BSA takes no position on what constitutes the Buddha. Each member
may interpret this word to mean whatever he or she wants."

I, as a Christian, would have no problem with being a member of this,
hypothetical, organization. I would just interpret the word as
applying according to my personal beliefs. We have agreed that we will
use a special definition. There is nothing unusual about this, most
professions have a special vocabulary, many of which redefine ordinary
words.

As I demonstrated earlier one Scout could easily interpret the word
"God" in the Scout Law as meaning "Gravity" and this would be
quite withing the bounds of BSA (not hypothetical) policy.

IMHO, further argumentation on this particular point seems more aimed
at keeping the pot boiling (and tires spinning) than at solving any
real problems.

-- 

Donald R. Newcomb                * The one who dies with the most toys
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu        * has accomplished nothing beyond
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet            * enslaving himself to his possessions.
From: Brian.K.Sward@dartmouth.edu (Brian K. Sward)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Parent choice, not mandates (was: Gays miss...)
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:57:26 GMT
 <1992Nov2.232609.11899@news.duc.auburn.edu> 
 <1d4sm6INN52g@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>  <13876@pogo.wv.tek.com>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0b1@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <13876@pogo.wv.tek.com>
rickcl@pogo.wv.tek.com (Rick Clements) writes:

> Our society hasn't yet come to terms with the gay issue.  Two states had issues
> on the ballot to limit gay rights.  The news said the one in Colorado passed.
> I don't know much about the one in Colorado, but the one in Oregon, that didn't
> pass, defined homosexuality as wrong.  Their TV ads call it a life style that's
> wrong like taking drugs.

The Colorado referendum just said that sexual preference cannot be used
to obtain minority status with regards to afirmative action and other
policies.  

Brian
brian.sward@dartmouth.edu
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: pnsf01dw@UMASSD.EDU (Dennis J. Wilkinson)
Subject: Re: Backpacking
Reply-To: pnsf01dw@UMASSD.EDU
Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:14:09 GMT

In article <750.1087.uupcb@freddy.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca>, bob.kenyon@freddy.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Bob Kenyon)  writes:
>Besides Scouting one of my hobbies is backpacking and hiking. If there
>are any folks out there that would like information on doing so in the
>Canadian Rockies (Jasper, Banff, ect.), please leave me a message.
>
>If you're planning a trip, I can suggest good places to go, and how to
>get permits, etc. I also have a good set of resources, and can suggest
>the best guide books to use for reference.

Same goes here.... my own troop runs a Venture Crew here in the US (just 
starting up, but so far so good) and we're always looking for places to go.
I myself (along with 2 of my assistant Scoutmasters) thru-hiked the Appalachian
Trail this spring/summer, and there are plenty of spots along the Trail that 
are easy to hike, easily accessible, and beautiful, that offer great oppor-
tunities for *SMALL* Scout groups.

----------------------------------------------------
Dennis J. Wilkinson, II  (pnsf01dw@umassd.edu)
University of Massachusetts Dartmouth - Design/CS Project

The opinions reflected in this post are MINE!!!! ALL MINE!!!!!
From: gascan@dcst16.dc (Bill Gascoyne)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: 13th point (was Re: A Scout is Tolerant?
Date: 13 Nov 92 21:48:39 GMT
Reply-To: gascan@dcst16.dc
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation

Oh, come on now!  Everyone knows the 13th and 14th points of the Scout law:

13. A Scout is Hungry
14. A Scout is Sleepy

;-)

---
1. Bill Gascoyne
Newsgroups: rec.scouting