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Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 09:35:00 -06
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         Brenda A Perlman <PERLMBA@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU>
Subject:      Exercise and Yoga

In response to previous a message discussing the positive benefits of
yoga in an exercise program, I completely agree. I have only taken a
beginning course in yoga and then was unable to do some of the
postures. But the breathing routine is extremely helpful in increasing
the blood flow and I feel my thinking processes are much improved after
a short session, even a few minutes during the day at work when I
really am having difficulties concentrating and remembering. My
instructor suggested the following times as the most beneficial: 6 am,
9 am, 12 pm, 3 pm, 9 pm. I keep these times taped to the bottom of my
computer terminal (in case I forget).  Also, I have also found that
stretching, especially after a warm bath or shower, can help ease some
of the stiffness and pain I feel early in the morning. As a subscriber
previously mentioned, the shoulder stand is especially helpful although
in my household it has evoked some good-natured humor from my husband
when finding me on the floor early in the morning turned upside down
with my legs over my head. It is especially helpful if I feel able to
go on a short walk afterwards. Of course some days the body just isn't
willing to go along with this routine.

Brenda
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
From: prb@access.digex.com (Pat)
Subject: Re: Dale's thank you to Roger
Organization: UDSI
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:30:02 GMT

In article <m0mrHoY-0000GfC@StarConn.com> Liz Heller <lizh@STARCONN.COM> writes:
>>Well, I think this is an appropriate time to thank you, Roger, for starting
>>this list and doing such a fine job maintaining it.  We all just sit here
>>chattering away about our various aches and pains while you're working away
>>in the background to keep us all informed and in touch.  It's a thankless
>>job, I know ... except today, when you get one big *THANKS*!
>>
>>
>>===  Dale
>
>I second that emotion! ;-)


For all you who wish to know.   Roger humped his body out of bed at
zero dark thirty  to catch a grey hound bus down to Richmond for the CFS 
Medical session hosted by The CFS Association.  Roger then taped the
whole meeting and will undoubtedly post us the highlights.  So a 
Big hand for roger....

I myself wimped out  { or conserved energy}  three of us drove down
friday to save energy and camped at the suites.  THe meeting was very
informative for me.  I just wish i had remembered to ask cheney about
the prognosis for meeting kochs postulates on CFS.
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Monday, 23 Nov 1992 13:42:13 MST
From: <AUCBF@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Subject:    INFO & EFFECTS OF MEGESTROL?


Does anyone have any info on Megestrol acetate - a cancer drug?

A friend (male) is going to participate in a test where he will recieve
2 doses of 80mg over two weeks.  This test is supposed to measure absorbtion
and retention  in the blood over a 4 day period.

Is this dangerous?  What is the chance of side effects? - If any one can help-
it would much appreciated.    -Chris in Tempe, AZ
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Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Tue, 17 Nov 1992 09:56:40 EDT
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         Susan Walker <SUSAN@COMP1.CC.WM.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Dale's thank you to Roger

> >Well, I think this is an appropriate time to thank you, Roger, for starting
> >this list and doing such a fine job maintaining it.  We all just sit here
> >chattering away about our various aches and pains while you're working away
> >in the background to keep us all informed and in touch.  It's a thankless
> >job, I know ... except today, when you get one big *THANKS*!
> >
> >
> >===  Dale
>
> I second that emotion! ;-)
>
You've got a third !!   - Susan Walker
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
From: jkenton@world.std.com (Jeff Kenton)
Subject: Re: (no subject given)
Organization: Kenton Systems Corporation, Weston MA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 03:30:22 GMT

In article <BxoD0C.J5J@ccu.umanitoba.ca> thorntn@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Duncan Peter G. Thornton) writes:
.. 
.. I used Restoril sometimes to help me sleep, and Imipramine helped both
.. the depression and (a little) the fatigue for about a year, but nothing
.. has come close to making me better - though I want to plug a _careful_
.. program of exercise yet again. The fitter I've become, the better I'm
.. able to cope with CFS both physically and emotionally. It doesn't make
.. you better, but just like healthy people, being fit helps you be more
.. energetic and use the energy you have more fully.
.. 

It doesn't cure you.  But, since some recent studies have indicated
impaired blood flow in the brain ("microcirculation") some exercise
may make you "better" in some sense.


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
=			Jeff Kenton	(617) 894-4508			=
=			    jkenton@world.std.com			=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
Organization: SIMULATION & GAMING / PROJECT IDEALS
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Mon, 16 Nov 1992 11:09:51 CST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         Alexandra Bernstein <ABERNSTE@UA1VM.BITNET>

Hi - this is a great list and I was wondering about something for my sister
in the Boston area.  She doesn't have access to an on-line computer, so
I thought I'd ask you guys.  At the moment, Elisa has had CFS for several
years, it started from environmental exposure and she is between jobs.  She
is looking to rent a room in a house, either a shared house or just renting
from someone who has extra space.  I thought it might be very appropriate
to see if one of the CFS people in the Boston area would be interested in
that.  She is very reliable, always pays her bills on time.  I'd say one
of her greatest talents (and she has many) is that she has a quick mind
for herbal and CFS material.  She has changed her diet radically to
control her symptoms and has done a lot of research to find a cfs-wise
physician.  She is very generous and would be a good person to have around
the house for a CFS owner (I don't like to say sufferer, but that is
probably just pc of me).

If any cfs-l reader has a room to rent of knows of some nice people who
do, especially in the Lexington area, please let me know.  I could give
you her number or you could give me yours to pass on.

Thanks.


+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  Alexandra N. Bernstein            !   English / 103 Morgan           |
|  SIMULATION & GAMING               !   TUSCALOOSA, AL  35487-0244
|  University of Alabama             !   tel 205-348-9494               |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  "Vote; the symbols of democracy are paramount." - Errika Alexandrovna|
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
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Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:08:06 EST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         Dale Drake <DDRAKE@INDYCMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Lyme disease and CFS

I have a Lyme disease question:  could the CFS-like symptoms appear *many
years* later?  I had an all-over unexplained rash many years ago (ca 1980)
and CFS appeared Feb 1990.  At the time, I didn't really get sick, though,
no fever, lymph nodes, etc., just the rash.  I haven't been tested for Lyme
Disease by my doctor, who has diagnosed me as having CFS; but then again,
based on what folks are saying here, the tests are pretty unreliable anyway.
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Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:16:00 EST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         KEGANRO@HUGSE1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Exercise and Yoga

I've been reading the posts on CFS and exercise with alot of interest --
I'm trying to figure out how to find that fine balance between doing as
much as possible without over doing it.  I've been sick since July 1990.
Before that I was a real jock -- swam and hiked and biked.  It has been
incredibly frustrating for me, because exercise used to be what I did when
I felt tired, because it gave me energy.  Now it just seems to take it.  I remem
   ber
remember when I'd been sick for about 6 months, and still couldn't believe
what was happening, I decided to try and gently work-out, and to try and
just push through.  I went to the pool I used to swim at, got in the water
and swam very slowly for 20 minutes.  I never felt good, but I did manage
to push through it.  I did that for 4 days, and suddenly got overwhelmingly
sick -- fluey and utterly exhausted, unable to get out of bed at all.  It
blew me away that such an easy gentle workout could knock me out for so long.
Anyway, I was completely unable to exercise for the next year.  For the past
6 months or so, I've been able to either walk for 10 minutes, or swim gently
for 7-8 minutes, 3 or 4 times a week.  But I can't seem to build up from there.
Even trying 15 minutes of gentle stretching so often makes me feel so gross
for the rest of the day, or longer, that I've stopped trying.  I guess I'm
just wondering whether anyone has had similar problems, or if anyone has
any suggestions for ways of building up.  I'd love to be able to take a
yoga class, or even a breathing/relaxation class (does anyone know of any
really easy ones in the Boston/Cambridge area?)  But I'm nervous about having
to do anything at a set time.  Someone mentioned recently that they had a
videotape of some short yoga classes -- sorry, I forget who, but if you're
reading this, would you be willing to lend me the tape for a few days, so I
could make a copy?  I have access to 2 VCR's, and would be happy to make a
copy for anyone who wanted one.
Well, I guess this post is getting long enough -- next time I'll have to
remember to break it up into smaller paragraphs.  -- Kate
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Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 09:47:31 PST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         Melcir Erskine-Richmond <globalcp@CUE.BC.CA>
Subject:      Holistic List ...

This list may be of interest:

>
> HOLISTIC@SIUCVMB.BITNET is the listserv for the holistic health group.  I
> have been a subscriber for about 4 or 5 months and really enjoy the
> diversity of topics discussed with the group.  It is a *lower volume*
> group, so you need not worry about a deluge of messages either.
>
> Diane
>
Cheers,
Melcir
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Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:01:11 EST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         Dale Drake <DDRAKE@INDYCMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: (no subject given)
              18 Nov 1992 03:30:22 GMT from <jkenton@WORLD.STD.C OM>

>..                                    - though I want to plug a _careful_
>.. program of exercise yet again. The fitter I've become, the better I'm
>.. able to cope with CFS both physically and emotionally.
>..
>
>It doesn't cure you.  But, since some recent studies have indicated
>impaired blood flow in the brain ("microcirculation") some exercise
>may make you "better" in some sense.
>
I think this is really important.  I've found that I can do short
sessions of yoga even when unable to manage anything else - and the
stretching helps tremendously with the loss of muscle tone.  The
inversion postures are particularly important, I think (the plow, the
shoulder stand, etc) to increase blood to the brain.

Here in Indy we have a 15-minute program on our PBS channel (To Life
with, I think, Priscilla - darn this memory thing) - I have about
a hundred or so of them on tape now.  It's just about the right
amount of time, although a lot of the time I'm modifying what she's
doing down to what I'm capable of.  And I don't tackle the balancing
postures on days when my balance is off.
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Date:         Mon, 16 Nov 1992 10:25:00 -06
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         Brenda A Perlman <PERLMBA@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Beki's Brother

In response to entry by Nathan Brindle, regarding work related CFS
symptoms, I would like to say I personally understand his
situation. It brings up the topic again of the relationship between CFS
and Environmental Illness. As an undiagnosed sufferer, I too have
worked in a situation for 5 years, the first 2 1/2 years were during
construction of an addition to the building, the last 2 1/2 in a new
building. I have been constantly exposed to fumes from chemicals, some
of which I am not even sure what it was. Until recently some of the air
coming into our below-ground-level-no-window working area was from the
storage basement area where the custodial staff occasionally painted
and cleaned various pieces of furniture, the air was drawn into our
area, causing headaches, and nose and eye irritations. It seemed that I
was the only one who got sick enough that I had to constantly leave
work and go home (on my own leave time). In the past three years I have
lost about half of my sense of smell and had numerous sinus infections,
etc, not to mention the fatigue and muddled thinking that seems to
worsen as the week progresses. If you are asking why I stay, I have
asked myself that question. But where do you go to work where there is
not fumes from carpets, cleaners, copy machines and where you know the
ventilation system is safely constructed. When you interview for a new
job do you run around sniffing the air (for fumes you still can smell)
or do you ask questions about the safety of the workplace? I don't know
the answer.
Do any other CFS diagnosed sufferer's who are still able to work
have similar situations and reactions?
Brenda
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Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Tue, 17 Nov 1992 11:09:25 PST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         Melcir Erskine-Richmond <globalcp@CUE.BC.CA>
Subject:      Lyme/CFS links

David ---
I was bitten by a tick while on holiday in West Virginia, summer 1980.
I was EXTREMELY ill and weak/feverish ... Recouperation was slow.
I began noticing my general health was sliding considerably by 1982/3,
and became totally bed-ridden for a week in 1986, when I had a blood-
test (but Lime was not a factor in the considerations, of course).
The intermittent weakened phases became more frequent, and a post-viral
condition was suspected by around 1989.  A blood-test for Lime was included
in tests around 1991 - but no evidence was found.  Does this mean that the
tests might be inadequate?

What tests should be specified?

Cheers,
Melcir
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Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:05:16 EST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         Dale Drake <DDRAKE@INDYCMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: resources for fibromyalgia, Lyme disease and EI/MCS

Well, I think this is an appropriate time to thank you, Roger, for starting
this list and doing such a fine job maintaining it.  We all just sit here
chattering away about our various aches and pains while you're working away
in the background to keep us all informed and in touch.  It's a thankless
job, I know ... except today, when you get one big *THANKS*!


===  Dale
From: David_Dorward@RML.NIAID.PC.NIAID.NIH.GOV (David Dorward)
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Subject: Lyme disease information
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:25:54 GMT
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: Unix/3Com MX v4.4 92.02.13

As part of my research into Lyme diagnostics and the effects (long and
short term) of infection with the Lyme spirochete, I am interested in
possible correlations between Lyme disease sequelae and CFS.  In
particular, I am seeking information regarding whether Lyme has been
ruled out in CFS patients, and what criteria were used to rule out Lyme,
if such had been done.

I would greatly appreciate any input members of this list might have.

Also, if any of you need information on Lyme, please ask.  I don't have
all the answers, but I'll try to respond with the best information
available.

You can reach be at:  dwd@rml.niaid.pc.niaid.nih.gov

or:  NIH/Rocky Mountain Laboratories
     903 S. Fourth Street
     Hamilton, MT  59840

Thanks for your time.

Dave Dorward, Ph. D.
Senior Staff Fellow
Laboratory of Vectors and Pathogens
From: frank@AECOM.YU.EDU (Claire Frank)
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Subject: mercury fillings
Date: 16 Nov 92 00:54:26 GMT
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
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I would like to change from my very highly recommended mainstream dentist
to a holistic dentist who is equally competant.

Does anyone know how to check out a dentist? (Is there an organization
that maintains files on complaints, etc?)

               - or -

Does anyone have one to reccommend in the NYC area?
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Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 11:16:33 EST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         Dale Drake <DDRAKE@INDYCMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Exercise and Yoga
              19 Nov 1992 09:35:00 -06 from <PERLMBA@AUDUCADM.DU C.AUBURN.EDU>

On Thu, 19 Nov 1992 09:35:00 -06 Brenda A Perlman said:
> ...      But the breathing routine is extremely helpful in increasing
>the blood flow and I feel my thinking processes are much improved after
>a short session, even a few minutes during the day at work when I
>really am having difficulties concentrating and remembering.

Yep, and helps with stress of course, too.

>   ...                                                 As a subscriber
>previously mentioned, the shoulder stand is especially helpful although
>in my household it has evoked some good-natured humor from my husband
>when finding me on the floor early in the morning turned upside down
>with my legs over my head.
>
>Brenda

*Always* do yoga alone - wise cracks from the audience can lead to
toppling out of positions, sometimes with disastrous effect.  I tell
mine he can only stick around if he joins in - that gets rid of him.
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
From: jkenton@world.std.com (Jeff Kenton)
Subject: Re: Exercise and Yoga
Organization: Kenton Systems Corporation, Weston MA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:44:33 GMT

In article <01GRCDODQKNK9LV83L@HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU> KEGANRO@HUGSE1.BITNET writes:
..
..	. . .
..
.. Anyway, I was completely unable to exercise for the next year.

My daughter's soccer coach let her play an entire game without a substitute
(before we knew she was sick) and she spent the next 3 months in bed.

.. Even trying 15 minutes of gentle stretching so often makes me feel so gross
.. for the rest of the day, or longer, that I've stopped trying.  I guess I'm
.. just wondering whether anyone has had similar problems, or if anyone has
.. any suggestions for ways of building up.

Whatever works, as we all remind each other.  Short walks are
another good possibility.


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
=			Jeff Kenton	(617) 894-4508			=
=			    jkenton@world.std.com			=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:33:00 PST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         Liz Heller <lizh@STARCONN.COM>
Subject:      Dale's thank you to Roger

>Well, I think this is an appropriate time to thank you, Roger, for starting
>this list and doing such a fine job maintaining it.  We all just sit here
>chattering away about our various aches and pains while you're working away
>in the background to keep us all informed and in touch.  It's a thankless
>job, I know ... except today, when you get one big *THANKS*!
>
>
>===  Dale

I second that emotion! ;-)
From: vader@meryl.csd.uu.se (]ke Eldberg)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: Why isn't this rec.archery?
Date: 18 Nov 92 13:42:44
Organization: University of Uppsala, Sweden
NNTP-Posting-Host: meryl.csd.uu.se
In-reply-to: mcoonrod@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com's message of Tue, 17 Nov 1992 00:13:43 GMT

Someone asked the question in the subject line.

I do not know what constitutes the difference between alt and rec
groups. But before this group appeared, I had access to no archery
group at all on the local usenet machine. Perhaps alt.archery gets
further than rec.archery? (I am in Sweden).

]ke Eldberg
From: mss@endor.uucp (Marty Sasaki)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: Of Release Aids & Recurves
Date: 20 Nov 92 14:59:49 GMT
Organization: Sasaki Kite Fabrications

Many folks believe that the explosive release that people sometimes
experience while using a release is the "proper" way to release. When
I was a teenager I took lessons from Chester Seay (he wrote a column
in Archery World in the late '60s/early '70s). Chester would tie one
end of a piece of string to a pencil and the other to the bowstring.
The length of this string was set so that the bowstring would be
pulled back a few inches when you pulled the pencil back to your
anchor.

Chester would then cut the string while yo had pulled the pencil to
your anchor. The result would be a mini-explosion.

Your bow arm would first push directly towards the target, then to the
left (for right handers) and up slightly. The release hand would be
directly over the right shoulder.

The theory is that when the arrow is gone before you can react to the
shot, that the resulting shot will be cleaner.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Marty Sasaki			  Sasaki Kite Fabrications		
  mss@das.harvard.edu		  26 Green Street
  phone:  617-522-8546		  Jamaica Plain, MA 02130
From: leonardo@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul Scott Bartelt)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: darkness
Date: 19 Nov 1992 21:21:00 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: w
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: leonardo@csd4.csd.uwm.edu


	I've got a question for all you bonfide arhers out there....

A few years ago, I worked in a large warehouse. At night after
everybody left, my supervisor would let me practice indoors down the
long isles. We would set up a bunch of cardboard water-melon crates as
a backstop. It's kind of hard to miss a target that is 3 feet high and
6 feet wide, so I'd take some pretty long shots. at 40 yards I could
keep the arrows in about a nine inch diameter patern (paper plate to
shoot at). My boss, mildly impressed, then shut off all the lights to
my dismay. He told me to shoot at what I 'know' not what I 'see'.
Of the 3 shots I took in the dark (it was almost as black as the
screen you are reading this of of) all three hit the back stop. Mind
you they didn't hit the plate I put up as a target but they were
close. Not being an instinctive shooter (pins and release) I thought i
did prety good. Has any body else tried blind shooting. I suppose this
would be much easier for instinctive shooters, but the target was not
visible and even they need to aim at an object. Some of you long bow
and recurve guys should have some input.


					Paul Scott Bartelt
					leonardo@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Newsgroups: alt.archery