From: benjamin@tuna.az05.bull.com (Paul Benjamin)
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
Subject: Re: Re - Mall Of America
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:39:10 GMT
Organization: Bull HN

In article <1992Aug20.110320.3226@ausom.oz.au> rkay@ausom.oz.au (Richard Kay)
writes:
>As I observe them, shopping malls in Australia are not "community
>centres".

>| Richard Kay          | Telephone:     +61 03 362801                |
>| PO Box 1567          | Facsimile:     +61 03 344572                |
>| Launceston  Tasmania | Internet: rkay%ausom.oz@sol.cc.deakin.oz.au |
>| Australia       7250 | BE REALISTIC.............PLAN FOR A MIRACLE!|
>

I am not sure that they are here, either.  Our planners would like them
to be, though.  Phoenix' urban village concept divides the city into
something like 9 or 10 villages, each in theory with its own village
core, employment center, etc.  The "core" of most of the villages turns
out to be a mall.  The mall does serve as a social gathering point and
there is entertainment of sorts (n-plex movie theatres) but very little
in the way of government offices, etc.  I live in Paradise Valley 
Village, and used to be the chairman of its Village Planning Committee.
The core is, predictably, Paradise Valley Mall.  When planned, the core
had land zoned for various uses including industrial park and resort
but that laid empty for a long time and ultimately the developer would
return with a sad story that he couldn't make money on anything but
commercial retail.  We did squeeze some land for a library out of him
but other than a golf course which runs through a wash that cuts through
the property, the rest of it is retail and multi-family.  The mall 
itself has 5 anchors (Dillards, Sears, Robinsons, JCPenney, Broadway).
There are several peripheral strip centers with more planned.  None
of it has any pretense of pedestrian access.

The problem is that a mall as the center of a community sounds good
on paper but doesn't necessarily turn out that way.  Any mixed use
proposal has the flaw that if the guy isn't compelled to make all of
the uses happen he is going to build only the parts that he wanted
to begin with, namely the parts that make money.

Our "urban village" turns out to be a bedroom community with a mall.
That mall is only the community center on paper.  If you went to the
mall with the notion of paying your water bill or expressing your
opinion to your City Councilperson you would be sadly disappointed.

As a side note, 4 years ago we had a dreadful experience here with a
governor who most people wanted rid of.  The only means at that time
was a petition drive to place his ouster on the ballot.  The drive
was started at such a time that the majority of the signatures had to
be obtained in the summer months.  In case you missed it, the typical
high temperature in those months in Phoenix is in excess of 105.  The
only places that people gather in any numbers during those months
are the malls.  The mall people refused to let petition gatherers
on their property.  The petition people went to court but were 
unsuccessful in convincing the court that the mall was in fact Main
Street and that they had a constitutional right to be there.  (We
did get the SOB out of office, though.)

Paul Benjamin                 Phone:  (602) 862-4627
Bull HN Information Systems   Fax:    (602) 862-4535
Phoenix, Arizona              E-mail: benjamin@tuna.az05.bull.com