From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Re: Electric Car summary
Date: 17 Oct 92 02:06:56 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Oct17.010923.18555@cs.brown.edu> kjb@cs.brown.edu (Ken Basye) writes:
>
>Carl Lydick writes:
>>ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
>>>I just don't see how you can claim that buying a car for 'niche use'
>>>is an economic hardship or a waste of resources.  
>>
>>Fine.  If your claim is true, then why the hell does it take a law to force
>>people to buy them?  Something smells fishy here.

>Could someone clear up the question about what CA's ZEV law requires
>and how this requirement will be enforced?  
>
>Carl's post seems to point to requiring purchase, which I find
>extremely unlikely given that the required number of ZEV's is fairly
>small.  

That is because Carl's post is, er, wrong.  There is no mandated 
*purchase* of ZEVs.  There are mandated *sales* ...  This puts the
problem on the manufacturer who may end up heavily subsidizing a
dog of a product line (in the ZEV) to literally give them away
so that they can sell their IC products.

>On the other hand, Carl's post also mentions forcing sales, which is
>easy to do at some low level with any company that wants to sell other
>products (like ic cars) in the state as well.  Assuming they don't
>want to lose a huge market, they will be forced to lower the prices of
>ZEV's until enough are sold.  

BINGO!  Right on the nose!

>Of course, they aren't going to just eat
>the loss from this (assuming that the required price is lower than
>what they would charge without coercion; this is not clear).  Instead,
>they will raise the prices of ic cars to make up for it.  To the
>extent that this is limited to cars sold in CA, they made their bed
>and will lie in it.  

It will likely be just like the other excessive costs of doing 
business in Calif.  {Cal OSHA, other env. laws, Ca. TAXES, etc.}
It will be BOHICA time for Californians ...  Unless you can get
the California emmisions pack in non-California states, you will
be stuck with the (what is is now?  $350?) non-compliant auto
import fee at registration time.  Given the low number of ZEVs
in the early years, their added cost should be far less than
$350/IC vehicle sold in California...  I'd expec the cost subsidy
will be tacked on to Cal. Cars only ...

>To the extent that prices are raised outside the
>state, they are getting cheaper ZEV's at other's expense, which seems
>strategically sound to me.  

I wish it were true ... but the auto companies have no reason to
do this.  Why be at a competitive disadvantage in Texas for a 
California law?  Stick it to the Californians, it's their law ...
(Or so I can imagine a Car Exec thinking...)

>I could imagine that there was an
>interstate trade issue here, although I suspect that it is not very
>different from CA's higher emissions standards, so perhaps not (bonus
>question: did non-californians pay for that, too?).

Non-Californias paid for it only in that we showed the technology
could be done, thus making it easier to mandate at the federal 
level for the rest of you.  On each Auto Sticker there is a specific
fee listed for 'California Emmisions' package...  I think we paid our
own freight ...

>So what's the scoop?

Rocky Road ...

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.