HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ronda@ais.org (Ronda Hauben)
Subject: ACN Supplement-Usenet README FIRST
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 15:00:14 EST
Organization: UMCC
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]


The Amateur Computerist Supplement on Usenet News has been posted 
in 4 parts. The parts are labeled Part 1, Part II, Part 3, Part 4.

Due to some difficulty in posting the parts, they appear in this 
newsgroup out of sequential order.

The Contents ofthe 4 parts of the Supplement are listed at the beginning
of part 1. They are

Part 1
Introduction
The Net Works
The Computer as a Democratizer

Part 2 (listed as II)
CityNet in New Zealand
Learning About Usenet
Freenet BBS's
`Arte', Computers and Usenet News (Part 1)

Part 3
`Arte', Computers and Usenet News (Part 2)

Part 4
Two Books to Help Users
Liberation Technology

We welcome comments on any of the articles either online, via email
or snail mail.

We hope for a broad a distribution as possible and welcome any help
with distribution.

Also this Supplement on Usenet News is available email by request to 
au329@cleveland.freenet.edu

And it will be available via anonymous ftp at wuarchive.wustl.edu
in the directory /doc/misc/acn in both ascii and wordperfect 
format sometime in January.

Happy Holidays to Everyone from the Staff of the Amateur Computerist.
From: hstark@caip.rutgers.edu (howard stark)
Newsgroups: news.misc
Subject: What's MCIMAIL.COM ???
Date: 13 Dec 92 20:49:49 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


I have seen addresses which resemble  ####@mcimail.com

  Does mci offer a net service of some sort or is this
just wishful thinking on my behalf.  I am looking for 
a way to obtain EMAIL FTP NEWS after I leave school.
   thank you
 hstark@caip.rutgers.edu
Newsgroups: news.misc,comp.bbs.misc,alt.culture.usenet
From: bm@shadow.columbia.edu (Blair MacIntyre)
Subject: Re: A Paper on the Social Forces Behind the Development of Usenet
Reply-To: Blair MacIntyre <bm@cs.columbia.edu>
Organization: Columbia University
	<1992Dec10.192501.181@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>
	<1992Dec11.003402.20832@clarinet.com> <1992Dec11.182025.11431@rei.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 21:36:21 GMT

>>>>> On Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:20:25 GMT, fox@rei.com (Fuzzy Fox) said:

Fuzzy> I'm not sure, but perhaps the article writer intended to show
Fuzzy> that the _discussion_ which takes place in a newsgroup is
Fuzzy> democratic, and not the actual newsgroup creation process.  After
Fuzzy> all, the discussion that will take place in a newsgroup is based
Fuzzy> on what the majority of the people want to talk about.

This is hardly true.  The discussions that take place in a newsgroup are
based on what any number of people, usually at least 2, want them to be.

Two people could go into rec.bicycles and talk about the pros and cons
of the US going to Somolia, for example.  If they can take the flames
and constant mesages telling them to "take it elsewhere", they can chat
about it to their hearts content.

This is not democracy.  This is anarchy.
--
Blair MacIntyre --- bm@cs.columbia.edu --- CS Department, Columbia University

"Men can get into shaving, because it reminds them of what stud hombres
they are, having to tame their manliness on a regular basis." - Dave Barry
Newsgroups: news.misc,news.newusers.questions
From: mayers@gnu.syr.EDU (Michael  Ayers)
Subject: Re: Archie: how to use it
In-reply-to: shmuelm@mot.com's message of Wed, 9 Dec 1992 23:54:46 GMT
Organization: Syracuse University
	<1992Dec9.175739.10844@netcom.com>
	<1992Dec9.235446.24048@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 18:02:13 EST

In article <1992Dec9.235446.24048@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> shmuelm@mot.com (Shmuel Marmari) writes:

>I have other questions regarding this,
>Because I have no direct access to nodes outside MOTOROLA, what should I do in order
>to get to archie and get info out of it ??
>Does ftpmail supports it ??  (if so, how ??)

	Archie can be accessed through standard email facilities.  I have a
 copy of archie's own man entry, which gives an excellent description of
 mail usage, and will be glad to mail it to anyone who asks.



--

             Mike                       mayers@rodan.acs.syr.edu

    C: Unintelligible code means job security.
  
Newsgroups: news.misc,comp.bbs.misc,alt.culture.usenet
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: A Paper on the Social Forces Behind the Development of Usenet
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 01:37:28 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to fox@rei.com (Fuzzy Fox):
>I'm not sure, but perhaps the article writer intended to show that the
>_discussion_ which takes place in a newsgroup is democratic...

Nonsense.  Discussion cannot be democratic, in which _decision-making_
and _control_ are excecised based on majority vote.  No discussion can
either make a decision or control anything.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
  "you make me want to break the laws of time and space / you make me
   want to eat pork / you make me want to staple bagles to my face /
   and remove them with a pitchfork" -- Weird Al Yankovic, "You Make Me"
From: zombie@EBay.Sun.COM (zombie)
Newsgroups: news.misc
Subject: Re: Archie: how to use it
Date: 15 Dec 1992 17:44:36 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: zombie@EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: redeye.ebay.sun.com

Could someone please publish the IP address for archie?  For
example, mine is 129.150.40.54.

Thanks,
Erik

---
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<>                    zombie@redeye.EBay.Sun.COM                    <>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>


Newsgroups: news.misc
From: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton)
Subject: Re: A Paper on the Social Forces Behind the Development of Usenet
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 23:04:02 GMT

In article <8463@public.BTR.COM> rem@public.BTR.COM (Robert E. Maas  rem@btr.com) writes:
>The only things that make a vote in a democracy a real vote
>is (1) people have agreed on the voting rules ahead of time and agreed
>to accept the vote, and (2) there are police and courts to enforce the
>rules. But (1) applies on Usenet too, and your sysadmin or feed can
>certainly force you to obey the rules if he/she chooses. The major

Not at all true.  I never agreed to any voting rules.  Neither did any
other sysadmin.  I am under no requirement to create any group created by
these rules.  Each group is on a case by case basis.  Like most, I go
with the flow -- but that is all we are doing, going with the flow.
People "agree" with these rules only in the loose sense, not in the
contractual sense of "I agree to do this." 

Of course I am talking sysadmins here.  Users have no special rights on
the net, in spite of its name, except as granted to them by machine owners
and the law.  Of course for a few dollars any user can become an admin.

As owner of a net machine with telebit modems and a dedicated internet
connection, it would be difficult to police me.  There is no legal group you
can stop me from getting, and no group you force me to take.
-- 
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366
From: millerm@skie.ECE.ORST.EDU (Mike Miller)
Newsgroups: news.misc
Subject: Re: A Paper on the Social Forces Behind the Development of Usenet
Date: 18 Dec 92 02:22:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: flop.1grck9INNbbb
Distribution: world
Organization: College of Engineering, Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: skie.ece.orst.edu

Could I please get a copy of that paper mailed to me?

Thanks. :-)

Mike Miller			millerm@skie.ece.orst.edu
Xref: sparky news.misc:2013 comp.bbs.misc:1498 alt.culture.usenet:953
From: jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca (John Henders)
Newsgroups: news.misc,comp.bbs.misc,alt.culture.usenet
Distribution: world
Organization:  One of these days for sure
X-News: HERMES MMAIL 1.10 Rev. Nov 25 1992
Subject: Re: A Paper on the Social Forces Behind the Development of Usenet
	<1992Dec10.192501.181@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>
	<1992Dec11.003402.20832@clarinet.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:51:22 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In <1992Dec11.003402.20832@clarinet.com> brad@clarinet.com 
	(Brad Templeton) writes:

>......  People figured that if they
>held a pretend vote -- and there were no illusions that it was anything
>but a pretend vote -- the whiner would feel forced to shut up rather than
>go against the "will of the majority."   This is engrained into us as
>kids, it's pretty effective.

	Brad, could you pop by news.groups and explain this to David Hayes?
Thanks. 

-- 

 "If Rush fans were braindead, why are there so   Bruce Bufalini
 many people posting to alt.music.rush?"              PSU
From: hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman)
Newsgroups: news.misc
Subject: Re: A Paper on the Social Forces Behind the Development of Usenet
Date: 18 Dec 92 00:51:02 GMT
Organization: negligable

In article <1992Dec13.230402.14330@clarinet.com: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes:
:In article <8463@public.BTR.COM> rem@public.BTR.COM (Robert E. Maas  rem@btr.com) writes:
:>The only things that make a vote in a democracy a real vote
:>is (1) people have agreed on the voting rules ahead of time and agreed
:>to accept the vote, and (2) there are police and courts to enforce the
:>rules. But (1) applies on Usenet too, and your sysadmin or feed can
:>certainly force you to obey the rules if he/she chooses. The major
:
:Not at all true.  I never agreed to any voting rules.  Neither did any
:other sysadmin.  I am under no requirement to create any group created by
:these rules.  Each group is on a case by case basis.  Like most, I go
:with the flow -- but that is all we are doing, going with the flow.
:People "agree" with these rules only in the loose sense, not in the
:contractual sense of "I agree to do this." 

For proof of this, one need only refer to the "Dave Hayes" threads
currently going on (and on and on) in news.groups.  He has stated 
his intention to not abide by the vote on rec.music[.makers].synth
and there is nothing we, outside of his site, can do to get the
renamed group distributed at his site.  As that site's sysadmin
(I believe he has stated that he is...) he is the one with control
there.  Where is the enforcement?  For that matter, where is the
agreement on voting procedures?  From what I understand of the
process the news.groups votes are basically interest surveys to
determine whether a proposed group has sufficient interest to
be worth carrying with prior discussion to determine the appropriate
group name in an attempt to control and organize this unwieldy
assemblage.

		-Richard Hartman
		hartman@uLogic.COM

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Ideas are not responsible for the people who believe them."
Newsgroups: news.misc
From: candy@breezy.ssc.gov (Candy Robinson)
Subject: Re: Archie: how to use it
Organization: SSC Laboratory, Dallas, TX
	<1gl5i4INNou0@male.EBay.Sun.COM>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:25:07 GMT

Don't know the IP address, but here are the hosts where Archie servers can
be found:

archie.ans.net		U.S. (ANSNET)
archie.rutgers.edu	U.S. (JVNCNET)
archie.sura.net		U.S. (SURANET)
archie.mcgill.ca	Canada
archie.funet.fi		Finland
archie.au		Australia
archie.doc.ic.ac.uk	Great Britain

There is a nice article in the December issue of SunExpert on Archie (p.
75).

Actually, looks like from the article, that the IP for ANSNET is 147.225.1.2
and for SURANET is 128.167.254.179.

You can get it by PINGing:

/usr/etc/ping archie.sura.net

This is a way to also find out which route is the shortest for you by
comparing the round-trip statistic times from the 'ping'.
--
Candy Robinson
Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
2550 Beckleymeade Ave., MS-1002
Dallas, TX 75237
-----------------------------------------
candy@grumpy.ssc.gov
Magnet Test/Data Management Group
From: rem@public.BTR.COM (Robert E. Maas  rem@btr.com)
Newsgroups: news.misc
Subject: Re: A Paper on the Social Forces Behind the Development of Usenet
Date: 13 Dec 92 09:52:17 GMT
Organization: BTR Public Access UNIX, MtnView CA. For info contact: info@BTR.COM

brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) says <<The pretend votes are not
votes, but rather surveys which can help you to convince others that
you have support, which is sometimes necessary to convince other people
to follow you.>>

That's partly true. But there's always a little concensus in a
democracy (without agreement to accept the vote, democracy doesn't
work). So there really isn't any fundamental difference between pretend
votes that everyone agrees to accept and real votes that everyone
agrees to accept, just a matter of degree. Even enforcement is a
difference of degree. In the USA, if you break a really serious law and
get caught and convicted, bad things happen to you. But on Usenet if
you violate the rules bad things will happen to you also, just not as
bad as being in jail or gas chamber, just mild things like having to
spend hours purging your inbox of nasty flames without losing the
regular e-mail you want to read, or even losing your account or your
newsfeed. The only things that make a vote in a democracy a real vote
is (1) people have agreed on the voting rules ahead of time and agreed
to accept the vote, and (2) there are police and courts to enforce the
rules. But (1) applies on Usenet too, and your sysadmin or feed can
certainly force you to obey the rules if he/she chooses. The major
difference seems to be that in a democracy a majority of the police and
courts choose to enforce the rules as voted on, whereas on Usenet the
sysadmin and newsfeed more often enforce their own personal
preferences. But even in a democracy the police and courts make their
own interpretation of the rules.

I think it's correct to say the voting procedure for establishing new
standard (non-alternative) newsgroups really is more democratic than
not; whereas what people discuss once the newsgroups are formed, and
which hosts accept which of the standard newsgroups, and EVERYTHING
about the alternative newsgroups, are more like an anarchy.

(Sigh, two of the three newsgroups where Brad's article were posted
aren't available here, so my first attempt at posting resulted in:)
inews: Unknown newsgroup comp.bbs.misc
inews: Unknown newsgroup alt.culture.usenet
News saved in /h1/g101/rem/dead.article
Article appended to /h1/g101/rem/dead.article
A copy may be temporarily found in /h1/g101/rem/.article
(So I flushed those two and am posting ONLY to news.misc this time. If
you're looking in one of those groups and don't see my article, please
look in news.misc instead. :-)
From: cliff@cutler.com
Newsgroups: news.misc
Subject: wargames by e-mail
Date: 16 Dec 92 19:11:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: cutler.1992Dec16.111123.324
Organization: Cutler & Company, Inc., Medford OR (503) 770-9000

I am looking for people interested in playing wargames through e-mail.
Please send me e-mail if interested.

Sincerely,
Cliff Quisenberry
cliff@cutler.com
Xref: sparky news.misc:2038 news.newusers.questions:5440
From: fox@rei.com (Fuzzy Fox)
Subject: Re: A Paper on the Social Forces Behind the Development of Usenet
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:20:25 GMT
Organization: Recognition Equipment, Inc.

I'm not sure, but perhaps the article writer intended to show that the
_discussion_ which takes place in a newsgroup is democratic, and not the
actual newsgroup creation process.  After all, the discussion that will
take place in a newsgroup is based on what the majority of the people
want to talk about.

-- 
#ifdef TRUE        | Fuzzy Fox (a.k.a. David DeSimone)       fuzzy@netcom.com
#define  TRUE   0  |
#define  FALSE  1  |  "You have been recruited by the Star League to defend
#endif             |     the Frontier against Xur and the Kodan Armada."
Newsgroups: news.misc
From: tthompso@bjudev.UUCP (Troy Thompson)
Subject: Packard Bell Reliability
Keywords: packard,bell,reliability,fault
Reply-To: tthompso@bjudev.UUCP (Troy Thompson)
Organization: Bob Jones University, Greenville, SC
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 03:13:27 GMT

Probably the wrong newsgroup for this, but I don't subscribe to a lot of
'em... here goes...

My family recently purchased a Packard Bell 386sx 16 computer.  To be blunt,
we've rather regretted it!  After some really bizarre runarounds by the sales-
men at the store, we finally got the system home. (This was Feb 1992)

We've had trouble with the mouse ever since we got the system (seems
to go absolutely nuts at times).  There are some other random weird things with
the keyboard that I could never quite figure out (lockups, mainly, and it wasn't
the software...)  

Two months ago, the motherboard bit the dust.  The store where we bought the   
system refused to do the repair, so we talked with P.Bell (toll-free).
Packard Bell did (finally) send a technician from Illinois to our
house in middle-of-nowhere Indiana; he replaced the motherboard with a
386sx-25, so I can't complain about the service.  The original system was
still under warranty at that time, so it was all paid for.  Hopefully, this
is the end of the problem...   

After some investigation, I've discovered that 3 of the 4 other Packard Bell
 owners I've met have had trouble with mouse and/or keyboard, as well as some
 other random quirks (unable to configure a new VGA card, etc). 

Another well-meaning friend informed me (too late, I'm afraid!) that a certain
"reputable computer magazine" said that Packard Bell motherboards have a
>10% failure rate.  Does anyone have any ideas about this? Can we replace
the 386sx-25 with a 386dx from another company to prevent future blowouts?
(Granted, we sacrifice the warranty...)  Have we been stuck with a lemon of
a PC?  Is there any way we can prevent problems other than buy a whole
new system (can't afford to do that now...) Any flames/ideas/suggestions about
this situation are appreciated.  Especially ones about where I _should_ be
posting questions like this...

 - Troy Thompson

--------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
tthompso@bjudev             | Box 41422 BJU         | Rt 2 Box 32
uunet!bjudev!tthompso       | Greenville SC  29614  | Wheatfield, IN  46392
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The Commodore 64; the world may never know how they sold so many of 'em!"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Troy Thompson: uunet!bjudev!tthompso   | "If all the world's a stage, Who set
 Box 41422  Bob Jones University        | the stage, Who's the director, and
 Greenville SC  29614                   | Who may the audience be?..." ANahnyms
Xref: sparky news.misc:2022 news.config:510 misc.legal:21305 alt.config:7850
Newsgroups: news.misc,news.config,misc.legal,alt.config
Subject: Re: Court Rulings Hierarchy
From: system@codewks.nacjack.gen.nz (Wayne McDougall)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 10:09:57 NZST
Organization: The Code Works Limited, PO Box 10 155, Auckland, New Zealand

suopanki@stekt5.oulu.fi (Heikki T. Suopanki) writes:

> 
> I don't think there is much interest of the US courts outside
> the USA, so why not put in the existing us hierarchy (us.court.*)?
> us hierarchy is not very well propagated, so maybe this would give it a
> boost...

I disagree. You could say that there wouldn't be much interest in US politics
outside the US as well, and that would be wrong also. However, it would only
be the higher court (probably only the supreme court) decisions that would
be of interest. The proposed hierarchy sounds like an excellent way for people
like me to get the pieces they want.


-- 
  Wayne McDougall, BCNU
  This .sig unintentionally left blank.

Hello! I'm a .SIG Virus. Copy me and spread the fun.
Newsgroups: news.lists,news.announce.newusers,news.answers
From: gauthier@unilim.fr (Michel Gauthier)
Newsgroups: news.announce.conferences
Subject: Preliminary program of the Ada-Europe '93 conference
Date: 21 Dec 92 01:00:10 GMT
Organization: AFCET


14-18 June 1993, Paris

Monday 14
=========

Tutorials

Tuesday 15
==========

Robert F. MATHIS
ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22 WG9 Ada - Status as of august 1992

Alain B. FONTAINE
Distributed real-time applications in Ada : the RERA project

C. BAILEY, A. BURNS, E. FYFE & A. WELLINGS
The Olympus attitude and orbital control system - a study in hard
real-time system design and implementation

Benjamin M. BROSGOL
Information systems support in Ada 9X

Riadh LEBIB
The impact of Ada on MIS applications

Barrie BATSON, Robert SCHOENBORN & Deb WATERMAN
SAMeDL - a pilot project

Mike KAMRAD
Applying Ada-9X to two real-time applications : a case study

Michael TONNDORF
An efficient Ada compiler validation method for Ada-9X

Wednesday 16
============

Fred WILD
Avoiding anomalies in inheritance schemes

Ronald E. PIERCE
Object-oriented design of an air defence simulator

Jesper JORGENSEN
A comparison of the object-oriented features of Ada and C++

Jorgen SCHWILLE
Use and abuse of exceptions

Gary N. BUNDY & Diane MULARZ
Common defects in the exception handling of large Ada systems

John BEIDLER
Structuring iterators to encourage reuse

J. R. CHERNAICK, H. S. DHAMA & J. F. FANDOZZI
Tool for computing cohesion and coupling in Ada programs

Mike GLASGOW
Data compatibility in a heterogeneous processor environment

Marie-Gabrielle BLOCH
An operational computer aided software environment : Iliade

Goran WALL, Lars ASPLUND, Lars BJORNFOT & Kristina LUNDQVIST
Performance expectations on Ada programs

Andrew HUTCHEON, Brian JEPSON, John McDERMID & Ian WAND
The formal analysis of Ada programs

Thursday 17
===========

A. BURNS, A. D. HUTCHEON & A. J. WELLINGS
The impact of an Ada run-time systems performances characteristics on
scheduling models

Lars BJORNFOT, Lars ASPLUND, Kristina LUNDQVIST & Goran WALL
Distributed run-time system, a protocol for Ada

Nicolas COURAUD
Certification of safety-critical run-times.

Lars LUNDBERG
Performance evaluation of parallel Ada programs using an experimental multiprocessor

Magnus SJOLAND, Rune THYSELIUS & Barbro SJOLAND
Adam, an Ada simulation toolkit

Richard MANCUSI, Joyce L. TOKAR, Moshe RABINOWITZ, Marc J. PITARYS,
Clive L. BENJAMIN & Eliezer N. SOLOMON
Real and virtual interrupt support : the mapping of a CARTS feature to
two different architectures

Vincent CELIER & Nasser KETTANI
Toward a secondary standard for hard real-time Ada

Brigitte BAUER, Christophe GOETHALS, Nasser KETTANI & Pascal LEROY
Ex2, a portable extended executive for hard real-time Ada, implementing
the coming RRG secondary standard

Friday 18
=========

Tutorials
From: baker@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Sean Baker)
Newsgroups: news.announce.conferences
Subject: VLDB'93 CFP - SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT
Date: 21 Dec 92 01:00:28 GMT
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin


                 VLDB 93 Call for Papers
		   (vldbinfo@vldb93.ie)

                  Special Announcement


VLDB Conferences have played a pivotal role in catalyzing the
development, furtherance and deployment of database technology.  These
conferences have provided forums for the dissemination and discussion of
database techniques and their applications.  They have also served as
platforms where new technological directions and areas for research in
databases have been initiated.

VLDB 93 will strive to continue this tradition.  However, it will make
special effort to further the goal of VLDB to lead the reporting and
stimulating of new research directions.  To this end, we solicit papers
and panel proposals on relatively speculative and futuristic topics.  We
also encourage papers on novel and challenging applications of database
technology in designing and building complex information systems.

We also draw your attention to the poster sessions that will be a first
for a VLDB.  We encourage you to use these sessions for describing work
that is still under development but presents interesting directions for
databases and to share your experiences in applying databases to real
life situations.

Rakesh Agrawal and David Bell
Programme Committee Co-Chairs, VLDB 93