HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pierson@cimcad.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
Subject: Re: Even pros mess up
Date: 19 Nov 92 18:02:02 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In article <Bxz0BH.HC@ccu.umanitoba.ca>, umwieb80@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Alexander
David Wiebe) writes, in part:

>However, I just read an article in todays paper (Winnipeg Free Press)
>about another problem with fireworks (or pyrotechnical displays).
....

>For some reason the people in charge were
>given permission to set these things off from the roof of a building which
>I am assuming to be very close to the crowd, because many people were
>complaining of getting expended powder and debris in their eyes.  What I
>am wondering is...

>a) what is this debris (it was claimed to have come from the fireworks
>seeing as how the people were actually down wind from the display due to
>an unexpected change in wind direction)?
	Typically most of what drifts down is partially burnt paper from the
	shells.  The comp burns, unless there is a complete dud.  The products
	of combustion are gaseous, mostly, with the remainder drifting off as
	"smoke".

>b) how harmful can it be?
>		(ie: is it just like a real annoying find sand, or are
>there chemicals involved that could cause nasty problems)
	There are a wide range of chemicals used.  Its almost impossible to
	say for sure.  The bulk of the material is burnt paper, but I would not
	(and hope the authorities did not) take chances & got good eyewashing
	done for anyone reporting in.  (This seems to be a growing problem,
	we had one show in New England recently with similar problems.  In this
	case the general public was allowed closer than necessary.)

thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
40 Old Bolton Rd		|I am the NRA.
Stow, Mass		01775	pierson@msd26.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: csmumfor@eos.ncsu.edu (CHARLES STUART MUMFORD)
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Originator: csmumfor@c00561-1403br.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: csmumfor@eos.ncsu.edu (CHARLES STUART MUMFORD)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:58:29 GMT


In article <tarrall.721552901@qso>, tarrall@Colorado.EDU (Captain Neon) writes:
|>You know, this reminds me.  I've always kinda wondered what would happen if
|>you managed to ping the President with a paint pellet gun.  Have to shoot
|>him in the back to avoid endangering his eyesight, but still... Talk about
|>causing a commotion.  Difficult to pull off without getting yourself shot,
|>too; have to do it from some distance away.  I just wonder what the media, 
|>feds, etc would make of something like that.
|>						-Neon.-

Probably something similar to what happened to the poor bastard who popped
off a few blanks at the queen of england back around 1980.  ie, deep, deep
doo-doo.

--Shadow-powered
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: u926135@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au (Adrian Hassall Lewis)
Subject: capacitor discharge initiation
Summary: what are capacitor discharge detonators and how do they work
Keywords: capacitor discharge initiation
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 12:54:29 GMT

I was looking over some old posts that I'd saved and found this -

[...]
>	Because PE is soo dangerous, it is not used in application where an 
>	accident would be catastrophic, such as for nuclear weapons. Instead 
>	high energy capacitor discharge initiation of a secondary explosive 
>	is employed (in these applications timing of the initiation is also
>	highly critical).
>
>	Please be careful if using any high explosive,
>
>	Mark.

As I'm not sure who "Mark" is, I'm asking the net -
	Exactly what are capacity discharge detonators?
	How do they work?
	Can anyone point me to any refrences?

Any help greatly appreciated.

		ajax

Adrian.Lewis@iasos.utas.edu.au

Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: explosive bullets
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:32:58 GMT

nds@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Neil Stevenson) writes:
: 
: What you are describing seems similar to dum-dum bullets, which also make quite a
: mess.

Bah! Dum-dum bullets are very much overrated and hyped. They are not very
effective at all. A good hollowpoint bullet does much better.

Bill

Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Flash (was Re: Ammonium Nitrate)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:15:50 GMT

mordes@b30.ingr.com (Tony Mordeszewski) writes:
: >: >I don't recall for sure - about 5 grams?
: >: I have heard that there was 2 grams in M80s, but that was about 6 months ago
: >: from an article from this groups and I have no clue how accurate the source
: >: is...
: >Yeah. I have the same problem. Since I do not use them, I don't know what
: >they contain. However, 2 - 5 grams is in the right range.
: >: >Bill
: 
: I don't have hemoroids but I know someone who has...
: Ya all are asking the wrong question. This is what you need to know.
: A conventional M80; How big is the tube? When I was about 15 years old
: my neighbor came from boot camp where they had cannon practice. He had 
: a device that was red in color, outside diameter of a fusee (approx)
: and had writing on it. -M80- Is M80 a military spec? Does 80 represent
: grains? 15 grains = 1 gram. The story was that they 
: would dump these things out of a gunny sack down the barel of a cannon 
: to simulate cannon fire. I don't know...

Then you have to find out if what the military calls an M80 is the same
thing that was sold in the consumer market. There is a good chance that
they are not.

: Once you find out what the real size of an authentic M80, 1/4 stick, etc
: then you can calculate the weight based on volume. There was an 
: article in AFN written by Monte Whitlock (sp). He places 50 grams of flash
: in a 3'' salute then adds 6 grams of rice hulls so it doesn't cake up.
: 4 oz of flash is very wastfull...

Well, you can calculate the theoretical maximum density. That would give you
a rough approximation only.

I agree that 4 oz of flash, in a 3" salute, would be very wasteful. However,
that is what many people use - or did use, according to my references. Like
Monte, I certainly would not do so.

Bill
From: pbray@envy.reed.edu (Peter Bray)
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
Subject: thermite once more
Date: 17 Nov 92 04:26:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov17.042600.20256
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR



since i posted three before i thought why not make it four:
what would happen if i ignited thermite in my hands?  my mouth?  would i  
be okay the next morning?  HAHAHAHAHA
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: jheath@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Jim Heath)
Subject: Re: explosive bullets
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:28:42 GMT

From article <By65wJ.14J@dcs.ed.ac.uk>, by nds@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Neil Stevenson):
> In article <y7nq1k-@lynx.unm.edu>, edith@triton.unm.edu (peter menning) writes:
>> I do know about a scheme to make bullets explose when striking fleshy tissue.
> <i think it is in Tbbom .. you acctually hollow out bullets and then fill them
>  with water or mercury or some other non compressable fluid... When the bullet
>  hits the mushroom cau> ses the fluid to compress and the bullet pops like 
> popcorn.. and much mre safe then NG  
>> 
>> Edith@triton.unm.edu
> 
> What you are describing seems similar to dum-dum bullets, which also make quite a
> mess.

The original dum-dum was made by cutting an x (cross) in the nose of the
bullet.  It isn't clear if the things actually worked or not.  The modern
hollowpoint bullet expands to make a bigger hole than otherwise.  

Note: I believe dum-dums were pistol bullets.
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: samw@bucket.rain.com (Sam Warden)
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
Subject: nuke nuts
Date: 22 Nov 92 20:11:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: bucket.samw.722463092
Organization: Rick's Home-Grown Un*x

It appears that the nuke nuts are among us once again.  I've
been exerting great restraint, but I must get this off my
chest.  :-/
 
I walked away from a career in physics, at what turned out to
be great personal sacrifice, to get away from this stuff.
These things are not toys.  I've wanted to say this many times,
and now I'm going to:

        Go away Saddam.  You are not fooling anybody.

        :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)

The end.

-- 
 
samw@bucket.rain.com (Sam Warden) -- and not a mere Device.
 
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: howdy
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:58:04 GMT

bw004b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (brian denny williams) writes:

:     Well that is one way to do it. But there is a better way. I used a 1
: inch steel pipe that was 4 ft long, and filed the back end with lead. The
: trick in keeping the lead in place is to put an Al foil ball down one end so
: that there is 2 inches of pipe open. Then put a rod up the other side to
: suport the foil and smash it in place. Then you can drill (not easy) a hole
: through both sides of the pipe. The holes should be 1 inch down. Then put a
: nail through the holes, and pour molten lead into the opening. After it
: cools the last thing to do is to dril a fuse hole and compress the Al foil.
: The big advantage with this method is that the pipe is not weakened,
: and you don't have to do all that hammering.The bigest problem is that if it
: dosen't fire it is a major pain in the ass to get the prodjectile, wadding,
: and powder out.I had to cut the back end off, and repeat the process. Dose
: any one have a good way to make a breach loading cannon? 

Yes, but I won't describe it. A breach would make the "cannon" even weaker
than it is. Look at the illustrations of the real items and see how very
substantial they make the breach block. They don't do that just to have a
place to fasten the opening mechanism and firing mechanism - they do it for
the strength necessary for safe breachloader operation.

Drilling the holes weakens the pipe considerably - not as much as folding
and hammering, however.  Remember that the nails are all that are holding
in the lead plug. 

Your "cannon" is far too long, for the diameter. It would be ok for a
firearm, such as a black powder rifle, where the projectile fit is very
good.  For your loosely fitting projectile, you probably do not need a
length over 24 inches maximum. Even that length would probably be too
long.

Bill
From: pbray@envy.reed.edu (Peter Bray)
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
Subject: Re: Duraluminum
Date: 17 Nov 92 04:15:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov17.041510.19223
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR



I bought some radiator stop leak which is, for the most part, AL powder.   
This did not work for thermite compilation although someone suggested on  
this group that it did.  I think the chemicals need to be very pure.  I  
wouldn't try to make thermite using rust from your brother's bike, or from  
the underbelly of a bridge.  On this note... if any one knows where to get  
some pure ferrous could you tell me?  Please email it directly to me as  
well.  If you do want to try the radiator stop leak you can buy it from  
any car type store... it is cheap and comes in a small vial.  I suppose it  
is largely AL since it sparkles when you sprinkle it into a flame.
From: tlea@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Thomas C. Lea)
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
Subject: Compiled list?
Date: 17 Nov 92 01:20:18 GMT
Organization: none
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d10
X-XXMessage-ID: <A72DA3A6D601B9A3@slip-63.ots.utexas.edu>
X-XXDate: Mon, 16 Nov 92 03:14:46 GMT

I was wondering if there was an ftp sight that would have a compiled list
on        building various pyrotechnic devices.  I'm mostly interested in
projectiles (rockets).   Or if anyone knows where to get a modern book on
the subject.  I have the book "Pyrotechnics" which is about 50 years old.
 And info would be greatly appretiated.  

												Thanks,
													tlea@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
From: rpeacock@cudnvr.denver.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
Subject: Al and HCl (was Toilet bowl...)
Date: 15 Nov 92 13:31:47 GMT

Since I haven't figured out how to quote and post at the same time yet, I'll
just give an overview. 

Someone wrote about using tiolet bowl cleaner and aluminum foil in a 2l plastic
bottle to make a bomb.

We just did a similar reaction in a chem lab but it used 6M HCl and aluminum
from a pop can.  We used about 25 mg Al and 15 ml HCl. I can't remember what
the exact # of moles were that were produced but we got about 47 ml of wet H2
from the reaction. With this much gas being produced, and the temp increase, it
is probable that you could burst the bottle. If there were any sources of
ignition nearby, you could also get a pretty good H2 bang!

Since you can buy fairly decent HCl in the form of muratic acid from your local
lumber yard or pool supply house, this is one more reason to "recycle" all of
your alimunum pop cans!


*******************************************************************************
*        Rob Peacock         *  He who dies with the most toys WINS!          *
*  University of Colorado    *  BITNET rpeacock@CUDENVER                      *
*         at Denver          *  INTERNET rpeacock@cudnvr.denver.colorado.edu  *
*                                                                             *
*             /\ /\ /\  Gateway to the Fourteeners  /\ /\ /\                  *
*                                                                             *
*        Nobody pays any attention to what I have to say anyway!              *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: mckillnm@unix2.tcd.ie (Marky Mark)
Subject: Looking for a recipe for "safe" explosive !
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 22:28:58 GMT


Hi netters ,


Recently I obtained a copy of paladins press catalogue. In it were such titles asitles
as "homemade c-4" and other such nicities.can anyone tell me are these books as 
safety concious as they make out or should I turn to other sources for my 
continuing search for a reasonably safe hi powered explosive.

If anyone has any recipes or booktitles they can recommened i would be very grat
grateful. 


The chemicals I have at my disposal are:

pottasium chlorate
H2SO4 (>10 mol)
HCl (>10 mol)
nitric acid (>10 mol)
zinc powder 
ammonium nitrate (presently v.damp)
Hg
sulfer , pot. nitrate,carbon.
sodium azide 
lead nitrate

                     thanks .
                        From an experienced and bored with gunpowder maker.

				Mark .....

        
--
  _ _ _                 _ _ _                        |  mckillnm@unix2.tcd.ie
 ' ) ) )         /     ' ) ) )    /     /) /)        |-------------------------
  / / / __  __  /_      / / / _  /_ o  // // _  __   |As they say in Russia ..
 / ' (_(_(_/ (_/ <_    / ' (_(__/ <_(_(/_(/_(<_/) )_ |    "Mascow...."
From: mingos@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
Subject: Re: fireworks?
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:38:06 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <1992Nov13.222231.10785@hellgate.utah.edu>, mwcallah%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Michael Callahan) writes:
> After reading that last batch of news, about 76 articles in all, and seeing
> only 2 posts on fireworks, I was wondering.  Should this newsgroup just be 
> relabeled alt.bombs?  Or maybe split?  Or would the newsgroup be too boring
> without all of the interesting traffic on explosives?  I am just more
> interested in pyrotechnics devices than bombs.  After a couple hundred salutes,
> they start to lose there appeal.  How about the recipe for strobe rockets or 
> some other such device instead?
> 
> 
> Just wondering,
>   Mike


   It'd be nice if the group did split - I thought it was great when I found an
 rec.pyro group initially.  Then after 2 months it became clear that it forms
 an almost predictable cycle of topics : "how do I make a) nitroglycerine
 b) thermite c) gunpowder"  this is then usually followed by "I've got
 a great idea about how to make a) a pipe bomb  b) a CO2 bomb  c) an utterly
 unworkable thermonuclear device using old cigarette ends".  I don't want to
 knock these things (it's all interesting when you start out on this hobby),
 but the persistent lack of discussion about pyrotechnics seems to rapidly 
 drive away anyone who *is* interested in pyrotechnics.  I include myself here
 - I only drop in on the group occasionally (not that I'm any great loss :-( )
 for this very reason.  

   Maybe there aren't enough people out there who take pyro work seriously to
 make a split worthwhile, but I'd like to give it a try.  It may entice back
 some of the pyro's who've been put off by the current state of rec.pyro.

             
					Gav.
From: edith@triton.unm.edu (peter menning)
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
Subject: Re: explosive bullets
Date: 21 Nov 92 05:14:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.y7nq1k-
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

I do know about a scheme to make bullets explose when striking fleshy tissue.<i think it is in Tbbom .. you acctually hollow out bullets and then fill them with water or mercury or some other non compressable fluid... When the bullet hits the mushroom causes the fluid to compress and the bullet pops like popcorn.. and much mre safe then NG  

Edith@triton.unm.edu
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: pdevri95@ursa.calvin.edu (Paul De Vries)
Subject: Misc.
Summary: Misc. questions
Keywords: books bombs boom
Organization: Calvin College
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:19:51 GMT

I just saw this newsgroup and had some questions I'd been saving for the right people... I'm hoping they're here!

1) I've seen (and have bits and pieces of) The Anarchist's Cookbook (ppft)
   Kitchen Improvised Plastic Explosives, Kitchen Improvised Fertilizer
   Explosives, and the 1960's-era military manuals Improvised Munitions,
   Booby Traps, Explosives, and one or two other books, not to mention having
   seen (and subsiquently dismissed/deleted) hundreds of "anarchy" files
   that friends of mine have gotten off underground BBSs.  I don't use 'em
   at all and I suspect that much of the information is inaccurate or just
   plain trash.  Any ideas?

2) I'm mildly interested in making homemade fireworks -- I've made potassium
   nitrate smoke bombs before (gee, real heavy stuff!) and made nitrogen
   tri-iodide and thermite in high school chem classes, but where can I get
   info and supplies for fireworks?

3) Awhile back, friends of mine were looking for ammonium nitrate -- our
   school didn't have any, nor would chem supply companies sell them to 'em.
   I recently saw some instant Quik-Freez ice packs in a camping supply
   store and realized that -- since it is just a bag of water with an a.n.
   pouch inside it -- this might be fairly pure stuff.  Any ideas?

Thanks.

 - PD

Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: pierson@ggone.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson)
Subject: Re: Oxy-acetylene bombs & cannons
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 23:27:02 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.114706.1@sc9.intel.com>, rcrandall@sc9.intel.com writes...

>When about 14, my buddy and I were watching fireworks on the 4th.  When walking
>home, we found a big ball of paper laying on the ground.  It had a small  hole
>and some white (if I remember right) powder in it.  The thing was about
>4 inches in diameter.
....
>Ahh childhood.  Do you guys think this was flash or what inside this thing?

	Almost certainly.  You were luck, and the display operator was (imo)
	sloppy and lucky...

thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
40 Old Bolton Rd		|I am the NRA.
Stow, Mass		01775	pierson@msd26.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: jrkitchi@eos.ncsu.edu (JOHN ROBERT KITCHIN)
Subject: Re: sigh... once more: thermite
Originator: jrkitchi@c00478-224wi.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: jrkitchi@eos.ncsu.edu (JOHN ROBERT KITCHIN)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:15:40 GMT



|>
|>while on the subject of tennis balls i read an interesting article in the  
|>los angeles rag Ben Is Dead about tennis ball bombs.. apparently what  
|>someone did was to cut a whole bunch of heads of strike any where matches  
|>and stuff them inside a tennis ball.  they then threw this thing and it  
|>exploded on contact.  pretty interesting i thought.
|>
I've played tennis a time or two, but the balls never exploded. Every time, 
flames and burning match heads came shooting out of the hole they were put 
in through.  Makes an interesting fountain though.  Put all kinds of things
in it.  rocket engines, sulphur, KNO3, etc...  Burning chunks went about 25-30
feet in the air.  Now put that tennis ball under something heavy like say a 
car tire....
-sally
From: v104pwrb@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Michael J Peet)
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
Subject: Re: sigh... once more: thermite
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:37:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Nov17.141540.3952@ncsu.edu>, jrkitchi@eos.ncsu.edu (JOHN ROBERT KITCHIN) writes...

>|>[..Stuff about tennis ball bombs deleted..]

>I've played tennis a time or two, but the balls never exploded. Every time, 
>flames and burning match heads came shooting out of the hole they were put 
>in through.  Makes an interesting fountain though.  Put all kinds of things
>in it.  rocket engines, sulphur, KNO3, etc...  Burning chunks went about 25-30
>feet in the air.  Now put that tennis ball under something heavy like say a 
>car tire....

	..Or how about wrapping the filled tennis ball with duct
	tape or some such thing? A lot. Anybody out there tried 
	this?

>-sally

Mike
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics