From: de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill)
Subject: Us v. Them (was: Wolf Summit in Alaska)
Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, TN
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 14:54:29 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.123642.531@nstn.ns.ca>, dc_ags@ac.nsac.ns.ca (Don Christie) writes:
>
>... In all fairness, sustainable agriculture
>is _NOT_ about just one point of view... there are many, and they are _ALL_
>legitimate in one way or another. To insist differently (as do some in this
>group)

Oops, that was a potshot, Don.  Who here has insisted that there's only
one point of view?  If there was, there'd be nothing to argue.

>Kill files are a childish way of dealing with opinions that don't agree with
>those of the reader. By denying others their freedom of expression, the
>users of these `kill files' are contributing to the problem we see in
>communication. 

Kill files don't deny anyone's freedom of expression.  That's just plain
ignorant.  People are free to post whatever they want, and recipients are
free to decide whether or not to read it.

>... It is the
>`venom and vitriol' expressed on all sides that is preventing the 
>powers that be from taking a clear direction... they read things like the
>blather on this newsgroup and they dismiss the whole topic as garbage...

What "powers that be" are basing their decisions on our insignificant
little debate?  Or are you extrapolating the situation in
alt.sustainable.agriculture to the entire international agricultural
community?

>Make no mistake... these so-called `powers that be' read things like this
>newsgroup...

BZZZT!  Thanks for playing.

>their objective may well be to get new ideas and insights into
>what they can contribute in their executive capacity... but what they
>actually get to read is little more than people `taking potshots' at any
>thing they disagree with...

USENET is not a big input into the executive decision making process.  You
apparently have little understanding of the makeup of USENET readership. 
Nobody who's been involved with USENET for more than a year or who has
even the barest understanding of human nature would be the least bit
surprised that people take "potshots" at each other in debates.  It's the
grandest of USENET traditions: the flame.

>and/or one-sided bibliographic references...

What exactly is a one-sided bibliographic reference?

>`ACTION ALERT' bulletins in relation to killing wolves in Alaska... 

That was kinda inappropriate, but then, so was Gil's response.  Mature
USENET'ers just let isolated off-the-wall articles pass.  They realize
that bitching about them just fuels the fire.  This thread is a perfect
example.

>So when these people turn off their terminals and shake their heads, and
>when they conclude that sustainable is a noble objective... but that there
>are relatively few truly viable ideas being expressed, can we really blame
>them?

This is really funny.  Do you honestly take this newsgroup that seriously?
You and Gil both seem to think that this is some grand "International
Forum on Sustainable Agriculture" where the top researchers and
practitioners in the field meet to exchange ideas and politely debate the
issues.

You're wrong.  It's an electronic "bulletin board" open to the public. 
It's not moderated, and there are no requirements or even guidelines on
the level of expertise required to participate.  The objective is not to
mold world policies or steer research and development or publish new
findings, as they would be in a serious forum like the one I described in
the previous paragraph.  Those are great, important, and necessary, but
that's not what this newsgroup is about.  It's a place where interested
people of varying levels of knowledge on the topic can informally discuss,
debate, and pass information on to others.

>One side expresses its views and the other takes pot shots... 

Deal with it, Don.

-- 
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)                 Computers should work the way beginners
Martin Marietta Energy Systems           expect them to, and one day they will.
Workstation Support                                                -- Ted Nelson
Xref: sparky alt.sustainable.agriculture:487 bionet.plants:776 rec.gardens:8590 misc.rural:2643