From: cassidy@cps.msu.edu (John J Cassidy)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Superhero rp
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:53:11 GMT
Reply-To: cassidy@cps.msu.edu (John J Cassidy)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Originator: cassidy@cypress.cps.msu.edu

In article <6353@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
>In article <Bv5L81.M57@rice.edu> tomscud@ruf.rice.edu (Thomas Reid Scudder) writes:
>>In article <6286@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:

>>|>     In my completely godlike opinon, Chumpions isn't at all what I
>>|> want in a superhero game. I like Marvel Super Heroes for a simple
>>|> system; if I want more detail, I use a slightly modified Villains
>>|> and Vigilantes.

>>How much did you have to modify V&V?

>       Not that much. As I recall, there were only three mods of any
>significance.

[ Stuff deleted for brevity ]

>The one thing i do remember about V&V is that it takes slightly less time to
>make a character than in Champions, but only slightly, because of the amount
>of calculations and referencing tables that is required.

        Well, I'd expect that an experienced user of both systems would
find it a lot faster to make a CONCEPT character in V&V than in 
Champions.


                                        Sea Wasp

	Well, I think I qualify as an experienced user of both systems, and I say
that V&V takes only slightly less time.  I ran a V&V campaign once, and for a 
while I considered in better than Champions, because of the atmosphere that the 
random characters allowed.  I then switched to DC Heroes, which I liked better 
because of the universal systems, this I then realized was enough like Champions
to give Champions a second look.  After all, I did not have to run Champions the 
way I've seen it run before, right?  I mean if this weren't true, all D&D-ers
would be stuck running games like they did when they were in highschool ( Yuk! )
	Anyway, I've generated NUMEROUS characters in V&V.  The ones that go the
fastest are skill oriented characters.  Just roll on the small skills table (
hope you don't get "pet". ) and useually it is just a matter of adding rolls to
your attributes via "heightened" entries.  Compute carrying capacity and all the rest.
This is, of course, where alot of the time goes in generating a character, BTW.
When I got good at this I would say that the average character took me about 20-30 
minutes.  Some characters took alot longer.  
	I can generate a Champions character in about 45 minutes, less if I have a
complete character conception from the outset.  But here again, a mostly skill based
character is simple: simple stats, pick some skills, pick some gadgets if necessary, 
add some disads, and I'm done.  And instead of calculating my HP`s, carrying capacity,
HTH damage, Invention points, etc.
	On the other hand the characters that took EXTREMES of time in V&V are relatively
easy to make in Champions:  I once rolled a character with two occurances of Growth, he didn`t 
have much else to pick from so I kept the two rolls of Growth.  I rolled and got a 7 multiplier
both times, so that my character could grow 49 times human height ( a cool 300 feet ).
Because he was not permanently tall, he could grow to any level of these 49 levels.  I had 
to compute 49 different heights and weights, Base Hits, Hit Points, CC, and I had to adjust
each level because agility adjusts according to weight-- so this means recomputing HP mods, Power,
Movement, and the like.
	In Hero this is just the Power Growth, with 17 levels.  
	Also the speed at which characters can be generated slow down, as you think up
some really neat Mutant Powers, Willpowers, Body Powers, Mutations, Magic and Psionic Powers,
Chemical Powers, and any of these variable powers.  The mechanics of the powers rather suggested
themselves, once I had an idea for the powers.  It`s the powers themselves that took the time
to think up.  
	Like I said before, V&V is got a slight edge on time.  And no edge at all in some
cases.

	John J Cassidy		cassidy@cps.msu.edu
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