From: biehler@acsu.buffalo.edu (Timothy J. Biehler)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Diabetes and Vegetarianism (was re: Vegetarians and Missionaries.)
Date: 9 Apr 92 19:05:49 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <Ydt7Pf_00VAwQfpUEF@andrew.cmu.edu> dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (David F. McWade) writes:
>
>	>(While one might be going awfully far to say that the "ideal"
>	>diabetic diet is vegetarian, it is true that the ideal tends
>	>toward low to moderate meat consumption.)
>
>	>Overweight leads to greater risk of developing diabetes,
>	>and so for a non-diabetic fat intake may be of greater
>	>concern in terms of avoiding diabetes.  But for a person
>	>who already has is, sugar is generally more significant than
>	>fat.
>
>	>This is not meant as a major flame, but is merely intended
>	>to correct misinformation.  The actual details of what
>	>and what not diabetics should eat is a bit far removed
>	>from the original point of minding one's own business
>	>(I am inclined to agree that you shouldn't yank any
>	>food out of another person's mouth, whether it is fatty
>	>or sweet or both :-)).  But if folx must go off on tangents
>	>the info should be correct.
>
>You seem so sure of yourself.  

	I am.

>Yet in many cases (~75%) diabetics (who
>need insulin therapy) who are restricted to an extremely low-fat diet
>(20 to 30 grams, or about *7-10 percent fat*, which is almost impossible
>to achieve on a non-vegetarian diet) are able to discontinue the insulin
>injections.  Diabetes is RARE or NONEXISTENT among people whose diets
>are primarily grains, vegetables, or fruits.

	I question this 75% business, but I presume you do have some 
	studies to back this up.  It is true that a high carbohydrate 
	and fiber diet is extremely helpful, and many individuals who
	previously took insulin can go off it when adopting the HCF diet.

	
>A scientific study involving 25000 people for 21 years found that
>vegetarians have a much lower risk of diabetes than meat-eaters.  Dr.
>David Snowden summarized the findings:
>
>"We suspect it is the abscence of meat that may explain our findings. 
>In this study we looked at various levels of meat consumption, and as
>those levels got lower and lower, the risk of diabetes also decreased."
>
>"Low to moderate meat consumption" just doesn't cut it.  YOUR info
>should be correct.

	Vegetarians do in fact have a much lower risk of Type II
	diabetes, which is far more common (though vegetarianism
	doesn't have any connexion whatever with Type I, the more
	serious though less common variety).

	There is nothing quoted here which states that 
	eating meat is harmful to people who presently have diabetes.

	If you will read my original post once again, I believe you
	will find that I stated that lower fat intake has been
	show to reduce complications of diabetes, and there is
	some indication that lower protein consumption will as well.

>A reduction to 20-25 percent fat will, I imagine, have half the positive
>effect of a reduction to 7-10 percent fat for diabetics.

	7 - 10 percent is a rather low figure, but if it makes you
	happy to believe this is necessary, feel free.  However,
	though it may be harder to get to this level without becoming
	a vegetarian, it is possible with low to moderate comsumption
	of lean meats and fish.

	Vegetarianism is a good thing for most people with diabetes.
	However, it is not necessary.  

>Further details (which I don't have time to expand upon) are available
>in Diet For A New America, 

	I will look this up,.

>which Rich Young refuses to read,  on pages

	That's nice.  I'm happy for him.

>275-278.  The sources which Robbins uses for the diabetes include the
>American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Lancet, etc.  (Look it up
>yourself.)

	My girlfriend has my copy right now out in Chicago, but
	I'll look it up as soon as I can get a copy.

	I would suspect, though, that Robbins would tend to skew
	things in favour of his opinion.  Other organizations,
	such as the American Diabetes Association, have access
	to the same studies, and while concluding that vegetarianism
	can be beneficial for diabetics, it is not necessary.

>David McWade

Tim Biehler

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