From: gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: The Ecocentric Criterion (again)
Distribution: world
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 01:37:25 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <1992Dec7.220403.17484@vexcel.com> dean@vexcel.com writes:

 > It would be nice to suggest approaches, but an admitted lack of an 
 > answer does not mean that magic is expected.  It means more work is
 > needed.

In spite of your noble ideals, Dean, it is a pity you don't simply
knuckle down to getting some of that work done, instead of sitting
their arguing about it all the time. What really does give me the
shits is that some of us have actually spent twenty years and more
of our lives analysing these issues, to find a mob of "concerned"
fruitcake bloody ning-nongs who have not bothered to think at all
seriously through the complex of issues at hand, jumping the queue
to disrupt and obfuscate our discussions just when we are actually
beginning making some progress.

In Australian Aboriginal society, known for the sheer effectiveness of
its environmental management strategies, its ability to control its
population, for its promotion of an extraordinary diversity of species
in a marginal environment, and many other desirable ends we ourselves
are only beginning to understand, you would have got a spear through
you for speaking out of turn as you do, for showing such an egregious
disrespect by interrupting the elders while they are talking, and by
disrupting important meetings on issues of concern to the society as a
whole.

You should understand also that the Australian Academic and Research
Network, into which your US Internet end is fed, is *not* generally a
public access network. It is a research network, while the chatter is
sent through Fidonet and Pegasus. Load of bloody stupid bullshit just
giving everyone free access and lumping the entire hoi-poloi in with
scientists and scholars trying to work through some of the problems
we have here.

The *minimum* entry requirement should be graduate level, while the
rest get on with mastering the undergraduate basics. Or qualifying for
fresher entry to start with would help . . .

 > As for part 1 of your paragraph (what does CW stand for?), this may
 > be a generalization. Aplicability varies.  The difference in mortality
 > rates vary (usually focused on infant mortality) but may not always be so
 > great as originally thought.  I am reading a book on the Ladakhi
 > culture in northern India and these attitudes do not seem to apply
 > to Ladakh.  I don't know whether Ladakh is an exception or not (the
 > author doesn't think so) but some of these beliefs may need 
 > reexamination.  If the high fertility
 > rates were merely to offset high mortality, then better medical care
 > should lead to lower fertility, but it clearly doesn't.  Other factors
 > clearly contribute and sudden cultural breakdown is suspected.
 >  
 > As to the second part, it was clearly true for the now-developed
 > societies, but may be problematic for developing ones.  Their
 > population may be growing too fast for their development to proceed
 > far enough along to turn the corner on fertility rates.  This is
 > also a generalization as some countries appear on the verge of 
 > turning this corner, but others are far from it.  Also, one can
 > ask what is the prime factor in the death rate/birth rate decline
 > model.  Is it urbanization?  Economic development?  Social development?
 > Some people would emphasize the technological end of development as
 > bringing these changes about while others say rights for women is
 > most important.  Urbanization may be coincidental to these other factors.

You are just probing and hypothesising here; apparently because you just
don't know what you are talking about to start with. How about going and
actually doing a bit of homework on these issues and then come back to
us with something worthwhile to contribute?

--
Gil Hardwick                          Internet:  gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                  Fidonet:  3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                         Voice:  (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
Xref: sparky sci.environment:13664 talk.environment:5100