From: Rex.Beard@f32.n373.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Rex Beard)
Newsgroups: hsv.general
Subject: Libertarians (Continued)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 23:16:59 CDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:373/32

Here is a continuation of my endless ravings.

Re: Lawrence Hughes:
  (Quoting Leah)
>>   Without the Majority led (DEMOCRATIC) congress we would not have 
>> such BS laws as the confiscation laws et. al.
     
 LH> wrong - many of the worst abuses in this area ARE from 
 LH> "conservatives", who are willing to do ANYTHING (read: anything 
 LH> that increases THEIR power and reduces OUR freedom) in the holy 
 LH> name of the W.O.D. 

Come on. Both of you stop pointing fingers. It is a problem created
by both parties and the voters. "liberal" and "conservative"
are over worked words today. They have little meaning left because of
where they are used. People are always calling me either a radical
conservative or a radical liberal. I'm neither. I'm a moderate.
I'm a libertarian.

>>   Without the silly liberals we would not have such things as the 
>> "Brady Bill" Cuts in defense, Femi-Naziism, pro-gay movements, ....
     
 LH> and without the silly "conservatives" we would not have such 
 LH> things as laws against burning flags, laws forcing christian 
 LH> prayer and religion observances on all students in the public 
 LH> school system (another argument against it) regardless of 

Alabama is a Democratic state. There is strong support for
all those things. No both parties are after your wallet and your
rights.

>>   Liberals want to give our grade school children condoms and teach 
>> them how to use them---BEFORE it is too late and they catch aids...
     
 LH> practice it even now?). What I, and any other libertarian 
 LH> objects to, is when you try to apply your own standard and 
 LH> beliefs on other people who may not think the same way. 

Not quite. What is objected to is when people try to use the power of
*government* to *force* their agenda on others.

I consider myself a libertarian. There are many times when I *want*
people or groups to try to influence and apply standards to others.
That is what free people do. That is what the free market of ideas
does. Confront, debate, learn from one another.

 LH> I am afraid that like many SOCIAL conservatives, you are trying 
 LH> to use the AIDS problem to advance a mostly unrelated SOCIAL 
 LH> program (basically, you would rather that EVERYBODY have sex 
 LH> only as a part of a fine christian marriage, and possibly even 
 LH> only to make babies.. right?). In MY opinion, as well as many 

What is wrong with Leah wanting that? Not that she said she wanted
it. But what is wrong with it? She thinks it is a good thing. Why
shouldn't she encourage others to do so?

Just because libertarians don't want the *government* to pass
judgement and laws enforcing lifestyles, does not mean that others
shouldn't pass judgement. They are free to do so. Some of them will
be right. Some will be wrong. But passing moral judgement and
being a libertarian are not mutually exclusive.

My problem with your post was your exclusiveness on the "libertarian'
label. Even amongst libertarian philosophical debates there can be
broad disagreement. For example, the official Libertarian platform
is that the government stay out of the abortion decision. But there
is also a group opposed to that called "Libertarians for Life" and the
1988 LP Presidential Candidate was Pro Life.

And in the Libertarian Party there is a broad spectrum of people. There
are a few people who are even anarchists. There are some who just
want to see a big reduction in government. There are others who want
us to return to return to our founding Consitutional principles.
I fall into the later. I think most Libertarians do.

But regardless. *ALL* Libertarians *do* want to move toward less government
power. In *all* areas. In the bedroom and the boardroom.

The government controls *HALF* of the GNP. Our civil liberties are being
eroded. Government intrudes upon our lives more and more everyday.

We shouldn't be drawing narrow boxes to exclude others who don't fit
into some nefarious idea of libertarian purity. We need to find allies.
There is a broad base of libertarian leaning people. Band together.
No political force can ever have a litmous test on every issue.
The pressing danger of the growing power of the state. Let's confront
it.

As Winston Churchill said when reprimanded for his strong alliance with
Soviet Russia after Nazi Germany invaded: "If Hilter had marched into
the depths of Hell, I should have found time to make a favorable mention
of Lucifer in Parliament."

-rex-


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