HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: warwick@cs.uq.oz.au (Warwick Allison)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Beef minus the cow
Date: 9 Apr 92 06:15:07 GMT
Reply-To: warwick@cs.uq.oz.au

gt4646a@prism.gatech.EDU (Rob Beauchamp) writes:

>From today's USA TODAY, Life section, page 1:

>  SAN FRANCISCO -- Tofu that tastes like T-bone steaks and veggie burgers
>  with intense ground beef flavor could be staples on the future U.S.
>  menu, a scientist predicted Tuesday.


How do you think the Beef Industry is going to react to this?

Will the FDA require all BMP products to be labelled:

	    WARNING: This product contains BMP,
	any resemblance to Real, Health Giving Meat
	   is a chemical induced mind alteration.


--
Warwick
--
  _-_|\      warwick@cs.uq.oz.au            / eastings genistas /
 /     * <-- Computer Science Department,  / giantess seatings /
 \_.-._/     University of Queensland,    / teasings tsiganes /
      v      Brisbane, Australia.        / -------- -------- /
From: sbhattac@sales.GBA.NYU.EDU (Shankar Bhattacharyya)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: pets (was Re: LEATHER)
Date: 16 Apr 92 20:37:51 GMT
Organization: NYU Stern School of Business

In article <1992Apr13.143205.28295@newstand.syr.edu> wender@top.cis.syr.edu (Elaine Wenderholm) writes:

>If you want to extend this to quantum mechanics, then you're in a realm where
>even logic doesn't hold.

How so?

- Shankar
From: young@sasquatch.serum.kodak.com (Rich Young (x37176))
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: De-muffining
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:02:53 GMT
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company

In article <kdsk3IK00awY83Z0Fz@andrew.cmu.edu> dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (David F. McWade) writes:
>
>>"But as for whether they need to be eaten at exactly the >same time
>>	for the desired effect, the data have been somewhat contradictory.
>>	In one of the more recent experiments on the subject, scientists fed
>>	protein from rice and protein from mung beans to different groups
>>	of weanling rats.  The rats who were fed just rice protein or just
>>	mung bean protein did not grow well, as was to be expected.  But
>>	those who were fed rice and bean protein as many as five hours apart
>>	grew just as well as those who were given rice and bean protein
>>	simultaneously.  The researchers concede they have no 'tangible'
>>	data for whether the same would be true in humans, but they believe
>>	some preliminary evidence indicates that perhaps it would be."
>
>I think Tufts should stop doing studies like this.  They should not be
>doing experiments on RATS to find out what humans' needs are.  Rats need
>so much more protein than humans that the implications of the study are
>misleading.
>
>Remember, it was a study done on rats decades ago that "proved" that
>meat protein was "superior" to vegetable protein.  There is a lot of
>evidence today to suggest otherwise.  Apparently, the amino acid chain
>in meat may be broken due to cooking (as stated in Fit For Life).  I
>don't know how true this is, but to automatically state that meat
>protein is superior to vegetable protein may easily be the  opposite of
>the truth.

	1. NOTHING in the quoted article says that Tufts did the study; in
		fact, the Tufts newsletter only REPORTED the study.

	2. The last sentence above, which begins, "The researchers concede...,"
		clearly states that the results may not be applicable to
		humans.

	3. The rest of the article (which you've chosen to omit without
		appropriate mark, like [...], or some such) clearly states
		that worry about what to eat with what is probably more of
		an acedemic exercise than a necessity, especially in our
		Western society.  It is also clearly stated that "better"
		in this case refers only to number of required amino acids
		included in the substance...it is clearly NOT a moral
		judgement.

-Rich (young@serum.kodak.com)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are MY opinions, don't blame them on my employer.

Don't get angry, get accurate information.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: aem@paris.cs.miami.edu (a.e.mossberg)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Vegetarians we know and love
Date: 13 Apr 92 01:50:29 GMT
Reply-To: aem@paris.cs.miami.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: Dept. of Mathematics & Computer Science, University of Miami
NNTP-Posting-Host: paris.cs.miami.edu


Went to see _Kafka_ last night - when I got home I read a short
biographical article about him - it said that he was a vegetarian.
Add him to the official famous vegetarians list..

aem

-- 
a.e.mossberg   -   aem@paris.cs.miami.edu   -   aem@umiami.bitnet
University of Miami Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
From: biehler@acsu.buffalo.edu (Timothy J. Biehler)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Minestrone
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:12:11 GMT
Organization: UB

Hello, my name is Tim, and I have a problem.

I really love Campbell's hearty minestrone soup, and it is vegetarian,
but it costs about $1.19 per can and I'm a grad student ('nuff said?).

ANYWAY, does anybody have a good recipe for minestrone?  I and my food
budget will thank you!!!

Tim Biehler
*******************************************************************************
* "I'm too sexy for my cat,		*				      *
*	I'm too sexy for my hat!	*  Tim Biehler			      *
*  I'm too sexy for my car,		*  biehler@acsu.buffalo.edu	      *
*	I'm more sexy than you are!"	*  V116jugp@ubvms.buffalo.edu	      *
*	  	-- Dr. Seuss            * 				      *
*******************************************************************************
From: biehler@acsu.buffalo.edu (Timothy J. Biehler)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegetarians and Missionaries
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:45:58 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <QdulO0a00VAuM9LUcx@andrew.cmu.edu> dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (David F. McWade) writes:
>>	Rich's sarcasm may have gotten the better of him, but your
>>	claim is dangerous.  An extremely low fat diet is of questionable
>>	value to a diabetic.  It may have advantages, but it may have
>>	equally serious disadvantages.
>
>Since most "normal humans" can function on diets ranging from 4-10% fat,
>please give me a reason why diabetics might not be able to.
 
Hmmm... seems to me that you were saying this is the *ideal*.
Sure, diabetics can function on 4-10% fat.  I was under the impression
that somehow this was supposed to be ideal.

>
>>	Your claim that diabetes is more aggravated by fat intake
>>	than sugar intake is, well, let's be generous and say it's
>>	just controversial.  Ask *any* diabetes professional and they	
>>	will tell you that while fat intake is factor to be watched,
>>	it's not nearly as important as watching simple sugar intake.
>>	Or better yet, get two diabetics, feed one a diet high in
>>	simple sugar but low in fat, and feed the other a high fat
>>	diet.  Hell, make it all saturated fat if you like.  And see
>>	who gets sick quicker.
>
>Yes, that would be the perfect study.  Why don't you recommend to the
>Diabetes Association that such a study be attempted.  Would they even do
>it?

Are you missing the point or evading it?

I really don't need any such study done ... I know the answer.

You nonsensically claimed that fat was a more significant dietary
factor for diabetics than sugar.  This is known as BULLSHIT.

Controlling fat intake is important for people with diabetes.
It is nowhere near as important as maintaining blood sugars
under control, and this is virtually impossible to do without
carefully watching intake of simple sugars.


As for recommending to the ADA that such a study be done, I will
leave that for you.  I merely suggested this as a hypothetical.
Rather, ask any diabetes professional what the outcome of suh
a test would be.

Tim Biehler

*******************************************************************************
* "I'm too sexy for my cat,		*				      *
*	I'm too sexy for my hat!	*  Tim Biehler			      *
*  I'm too sexy for my car,		*  biehler@acsu.buffalo.edu	      *
*	I'm more sexy than you are!"	*  V116jugp@ubvms.buffalo.edu	      *
*	  	-- Dr. Seuss            * 				      *
*******************************************************************************
From: traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Supermarkets
Date: 15 Apr 92 09:24:48 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

In article <5020390@hpindda.cup.hp.com> gph@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Paul Houtz) writes:
>
>I am still waiting for Ben and Jerries to begin producing a soy-based desert
>product and phase out their diary based products.

Our local *supermarkets* (i.e. like Safeways) sell Vegan ice cream now. Maybe
you Americans should start balloting Safeway et al to provide the food you
actually want to eat?

Naturally all our supermarkets sell Soya Milk. Most of our supermarkets
use the vegetarian logo on foodstuffs so it is easy to pick out what's
ok (not always a lot of help if you're a vegan though).




-- 
Michael Traub
BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@rtf.bt.co.uk
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: mcdermot@socrates.umd.edu (Tara McDermott)
Subject: Re: Request: Vegan Cake Frosting
Organization: University of Maryland University College
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 21:26:56 GMT

From a friend of mine (Hi ddave!!).  He got it from some vegan
cookbook, which I can't remember.  I've had the peanut butter
frosting, and it is better than any frosting I have EVER had:

Cake
2 1/4 WW pastry flr
1 tspn baking soda
1/4 tspn salt
1/2 cupt carob or cocoa powder
1/2 cup sucanat
1/2 cup unrefined corn oil (or a couple of tblspns more)
3/4 cup water
1 1/4 cups maple syrup
1 tblspn cider vinegar
2 tspns vanilla

(makes 2 8inch pans - bake 20-35 minutes, cool 10 minutes before removing
from pans to finish cooling)

Chocolate frosting

melt 1/2 pound chocolate - stirring constantly and avoiding burning
rinse 1/2 pound firm tofu and blend with 1/2 cup brn rice syrup, transfer
to a mixing bowl and add 1/2 pound margerine (a bit less might be better
actually), and 1/2 tspn vanilla.  beat 'till smooth.  then slowly pour
the chocolate into the bowl and gradually mix the ingredients until well
blended.  Refridgerate icing for one hour before applying to cake.

P'nut butter frosting

crush 1/4 pound firm tofu by hand, combine with 1/2 cup brn rice syrup and
1/2 cup sucanat in a small saucepan over medium heat.  Heat for 'bout 5
minutes stirring continuouly.  Then blend 'till smooth.  add 1/2 cup crmy
pnut butter, 1 stick margerine and beat until smooth - again refridgerate
an hour before application or utilization.  Then stand on your hands,
clap your heels together 2 and a half times while saying MOOOOOOOOOOO!


Tara
-- 
"Look Sis, I don't anything about douche, but I DO know anti-freeze
when I see it, and THAT's what you're holding."   - Dead Milkmen

Tara McDermott                            mcdermot@socrates.umd.edu
From: traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: What's to eat in Finland/Sweden?
Date: 11 Apr 92 17:24:01 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

In article <1992Apr3.231352.7882@stat.wisc.edu> newton@atlas.stat.wisc.edu (Michael Newton) writes:
>
>Speaking of "What's to eat in Austria," as someone was, I'm going to be
>spending two weeks in Finland, and one day in Sweden, and am wondering 
>if anyone has any recommendations-
>as to what to order in restaurants?  I am vegetarian, trying to go
>vegan, but probably will have to put up with lots o' cheese or starve,
>I'm guessing...  Any cheap restaurant recommendations in Helsinki or in
>Stockholm?  
>
>Marianna Wright-Newton

My out of date International Vegetarian Travel Guide has the following:

Helsinki:
Aurinkotuuli
Lapinlahdenkatu 25
A 00180
(90) 694 2563
Open 10.45am to 2.45pm and 12 noon to 5pm Saturday, Closed Sunday.

Kasvis Ravintola Vegetarian Restaurant
Korkeavourenkatu 3
14
Open 11am to 6pm weekdays, 12noon to 6pm Saturday and Sunday.


Stockholm:
Cafe Vega
Vegagatan 15
11329
316440 or 314350
Open 11am to 7pm Monday to Friday, 11am to 4pm Sunday

Restaurant Miso
Karlsbergsvagen 86
11335
(08) 348879
Creole food served on Saturdays. Open 11am to 4pm. Saturdays 1pm to 5pm.
Closed Sundays.

From the lack of choice and the poor opening hours I would say be
prepared to go hungry!


-- 
Michael Traub
BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@rtf.bt.co.uk
From: grx0751@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: India (was Re: Dairy farming 
Date: 17 Apr 92 13:00:56 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <1992Apr17.093851.17746@rtf.bt.co.uk>, traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael 
Traub) writes:
> On a personal note I have never drunk anything more *foul* than a
> salted lassi!
> 
	You are off the hook since you are a vegan, but if you were a
vegetarian and made the above comment, I have strong reasons to believe your
taste buds are/were dead!  :-) :-)

	Give me a glass of salted lassi anyday!

	Siva Prasad.			(grx0751@uoft02.utoledo.edu)
Organization: Doctoral student, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 12:52:43 -0400 
From: "Yashodhara P. Pawar" <yp02+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: India (was Re: Dairy farming (Was: Ben & Jerry's ice cream))

True, there are at least 90 % meat eaters in India. But meat is soooo...
expensive that it is at best, eaten only on Sunday afternoons and more
commonly on festive occasions (marriages and family gatherings). So it
is a fallacy to say that "....cow pop is held at bay by meat eaters". As
an example, most car drivers in India have to weave their way through
somnambulating bovines on their way to work!! 
Also, in my opinion, milk is highly in demand. And since the cows are so
inefficient, the prices are mind boggling! Several families own
lactometers to check if the milk supplied by the local milkman is not
watered down. The best milk in India is just a little fattier than the
skim milk here.   
Leather footwear is indeed manufactured but the hoi polloi on the
streets cannot afford them. They are purchased and worn on, again,
special occasions i.e; interviews. Most sandals are made of cheap man
made materials. And may last one monsoon downpour!

Yashodhara
From: lisa@bit.UUCP (Lisa Lowell)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: need list of famous vegetarians
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:39:33 GMT
Organization: BIT, Portland, OR


Hi!
This is my first post to rec.food.veg.  I need the net wisdom.  I have just
recently joined the Portland Vegetarians and have been volunteered to help
plan next years Great American Meat Out.  I need some ideas and I need to find
the list of famous vegetarians.  If anyone has a copy of the list and can send
it to me that would be great!  What did everyone do this year for the Great
American Meat Out?
		  Thanks in advance,
				  Lisa
From: gph@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Paul Houtz)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Breast Cancer and Pesticides
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:36:16 GMT
Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA

das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz) writes:

>My doctor, a breast cancer specialist, told me that she suspects that household
>chemicals, as well as pesticides and too much fat in  the diet, are major
>contributing factors to the fact that she has been seeing a dramatic
>increase in breast cancer in women with none of the commonly accepted
>'risk' factors (she says 60% of her new cases fall into this category).

   I think this is interesting.

   Of course, without a study, this kind of an opinion, even from the most
   qualified specialist is meaningless.  

   I personally believe that we have been looking at environmental pollutants
   too much.   I think that what we eat is going to affect us more directly
   than what we inhale or spill on our skin.   

   While your M.D. mentions these too, it seems she thinks that the household
   chemicals are more of a factor, and I don't agree.
From: asannuti@dae.Princeton.EDU (Arun M. Sannuti)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: A suggestion for rec.food.recipies
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:17:44 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU

In article <1992Apr9.073323.14475@rtf.bt.co.uk> traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:

>I  really  wonder  why  we  keep  getting  this  sort  of  thing. This is a
>newsgroup  for  *vegetarians*.  If  meat eaters want to read it fine, its a
>free  net,  but  please  remember  if  we consider meat eating intolerable,
>that's *our* problem.
>
>We  don't  need  you to tell us we are intolerant, we know we are, and most
>of us are quite happy being intolerant.
>
>I  think  *everbody*  should  stop  killing  animals  for  food,  clothing,
>experimentation,  whatever.  No  if's  no but's, no nothing. If you think I
>am  a  looney,  good for you, I probably am, but you aren't going to change
>my  mind  just  by telling me I am. Come to that you aren't going to change
>my  mind  no  matter  what  you say, so please go away unless you can leave
>your  preaching  out  of  this  newsgroup.  This  is  *not* a newsgroup for
>animal  killers  to  convince  vegetarians of the errors of their ways, nor
>is it a newsgroup to teach tolerance amongst vegetarians, so just butt out!
>-- 
>Michael Traub
>BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@rtf.bt.co.uk

Ditto.  I thought the reason talk.politics.animals existed was to get
all the vegetarian haters out of rec.food.veg.  If its that important
that you convince us ignorant vegetarians the errors in our ways, then
do so there.  Or advertise in the real world.  I would love to have a
vegetarian newsgroup that was for vegetarians, where we can talk and
be ourselves freely, without having to defend ourselves all the time.
If you can't deal with that, leave.  Please.

I doubt this diatribe, or Michael's, will do any good, but hey,
sometimes you've got to try.

Arun Sannuti
asannuti@phoenix.princeton.edu
From: biehler@acsu.buffalo.edu (Timothy J. Biehler)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Lavilin
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:20:20 GMT
Organization: UB

In this month's issue of Vegetarian Times there was an advert for
Lavilin, a deodorant of sorts which supposedly you apply once to
your 'pits and don't need to again for about a weeks or two.  SUpposedly
it's made from some herbal extracts, and supposedly has some
rearch conducted at Tel Aviv university to bacj up thier claims
of effectiveness.

I called them up this morning and they said they would send me a 
free sample to try (the stuff costs about $12 though it supposedly
lasts many months, but obviously I wasn't about to fork over
$12 to try it) when I asked if I could get a refund if it didn't
work.  So I'll try it, but I was wondering if anyone has used this
product, and if so, 

(a) is it vegetarian in source?
(b) how effective is it?

Any info will be appreciated.

Tim Biehler
*******************************************************************************
* "I'm too sexy for my cat,		*				      *
*	I'm too sexy for my hat!	*  Tim Biehler			      *
*  I'm too sexy for my car,		*  biehler@acsu.buffalo.edu	      *
*	I'm more sexy than you are!"	*  V116jugp@ubvms.buffalo.edu	      *
*	  	-- Dr. Seuss            * 				      *
*******************************************************************************
From: young@sasquatch.serum.kodak.com (Rich Young (x37176))
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Diabetes and Vegetarianism (was re: Vegetarians and Missionaries.)
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:22:56 GMT
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company

dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (David F. McWade) writes:

[...]

>A scientific study involving 25000 people for 21 years found that
>vegetarians have a much lower risk of diabetes than meat-eaters.  Dr.
>David Snowden summarized the findings:
>
>"We suspect it is the abscence of meat that may explain our findings. 
>In this study we looked at various levels of meat consumption, and as
>those levels got lower and lower, the risk of diabetes also decreased."

[...]

	THIS IS NOT A FLAME!!!!!!!!  Given that obesity contributes to the
	expression of Type II (non-insulin dependent or "adult onset")
	diabetes, and given that vegetarians are rarely obese, it would
	seem reasonable that there would be a decrease in the appearance
	of this type of diabetes in vegetarians.  The quote from Dr. Snowden
	does not make it clear that relative obesity was eliminated as a
	factor in his conclusion, however.  Does Dr. Snowden mention this
	in other statements (not quoted here)?  Does he separate the
	incidence of Type I diabetes from Type II?

	As for whether or not I've read DfaNA, Mr. McWade has no personal
	knowledge of this.  I have stated, however, that I consider Mr.
	Robbins to be as biased as the Cattlemen's Association and the
	Dairy Council in his presentation of data.  Neither is a particularly
	trustworthy source.

-Rich (young@serum.kodak.com)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are MY opinions, don't blame them on my employer.

Don't get angry, get accurate information.
From: gt4646a@prism.gatech.EDU (Rob Beauchamp)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Minestrone
Date: 15 Apr 92 01:28:27 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


 Timothy J. Biehler writes:
> [...]  does anybody have a good recipe for minestrone?  

That's mu cue. This makes some mighty good soup. A note before 
I get started: If, like the original poster, you're on a grad student
budget, don't be daunted by the long list of ingredients. They're all
_cheap_ ingredients, on top of which, this makes a LOT of soup. 
(Serves a dozen or so.) 

    MINESTRONE: THE RECIPE  

1 1/4 c dry great northern beans, soaked
1 large onion, chopped 
2 carrots, chopped 
3 stalks celery, chopped
2 leeks (see note below)
4 cloves garlic, minced
1/2 head savoy cabbage, chopped
1 potato, diced
1 bay leaf
1 15-oz can chopped Italian plum tomatoes, with juice
1 c green beans cut in 1-in lengths 
1/2 T dried oregano
1/2 t each dried rosemary and thyme
salt and pepper to taste
1/2 c dry pasta (orzo or any other small shape) 
1/4 c each fresh parsley and fresh basil, chopped

1. Put the beans (drained) and the next eight ingredients (up through the
   bay leaf) into a big pot with 2 quarts fresh water. Bring to a boil,
   lower heat and simmer, covered, about an hour, til beans are soft.

2. Add remaining ingredients _except_ pasta and fresh herbs. Continue 
   cooking about 20 minutes. 

3. Add pasta; cook about 10 minutes. 

4. Remove from heat; stir in fresh parsley and basil. Remove bay leaf
   before serving (if you can find it; if not, just remind your guests
   not to eat it :-). 

That's it! Since most of the ingredients are fresh vegetables, there's
a fair amount of chopping involved, but the results will be ample reward
for your effort. This keeps up to a week or so in the fridge. 

A Note About The Leeks: To prepare the leeks, trim off the green part and
the roots. (Only white part is used.) Cut leeks in half lengthwise and 
slice into C's. Rinse well in a colander to remove any grit. 

A Note About The Beans: Cannellini beans (aka great northern, white kidney) 
are traditional for minestrone, but red kidney and/or garbanzos may be
substituted. If you want to use canned, use a 20-oz can, drained, and add
with the pasta in step 3.

A Note About Other Substitutions: If you can't find/don't like savoy cabbage,
substitute about 3 cups of any kind of greens, chopped. Feel free to
substitute, for the fresh green beans, a 9-oz package of frozen. In fact, 
just generally make any substitutions you like, and vary the amounts too,
if you feel like it; this should be regarded as a good starting point for
your OWN minestrone recipe. 

Other Things You Could Throw In, If The Mood Hits You:
8 oz fresh mushrooms, cleaned and sliced
2 zucchini, chopped
1/2 c peas (fresh or frozen)
2 T tomato paste   



-- 
Rob Beauchamp                           \  It's better to be rich and healthy
Georgia Institute of Technology           \    than poor and sick.    
Disclaimer: Back off, man. I'm a scientist. \    -- Dave Barry's mother