HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Air?  Wossat? (was Re: Terms)
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:30:36 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA

In article <1992Apr6.155031.21647@bristol.ac.uk> P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
>Well, now I've done it, sigh.  As a result of my explanation of
>'imaging' and 'transparency', I've had mail from someone wanting to
>know if I could explain 'air' in similar terms.  I can't.  In fact,
>it's only recently that I've seen reviewers using the term.  Anyone
>want to have a go?
>
    AIR    As in "hot".  The nauseating output of the typical 
	   digiphile, digiphobe, vinylophile, vinylopath, etc.


    Usually "air" means a speaker with a very smooth, accurate, and
    extended high frequency response.  Often applied to ribbons,
    electrostatics, etc...and rarely a dynamic.

    The term is also misused a lot to describe the high frequency
    undamped resonance of a lot of moving coil cartridges...which to
    the uncritical ear SOUNDS like an extended high frequency
    response.  
From: myers@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Myers)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 18:37:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Listening
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.audio

> B) Studies have shown that Double Blind Testing masks audible
> differences between components.
> 

This is very interesting - how were the differences determined to be
"audible" in the first place?

(Please note that I'm not disagreeing with the above statement - or agreeing
with it, for that matter - I'd just like some further information.)


Bob Myers            | "The difference between science and the fuzzy subjects
myers%hpfcla@hplabs. |   is that science requires reasoning, while those other
hp.com               |     subjects merely require scholarship." - R. Heinlein
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: byrns-j@gamma.corp.mot.com
Subject: Re: Class "A" Amplifier
Organization: Motorola CCRL
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 22:14:25 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.174439.2542@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> gfl@hera.uucp
(27223-lenahan) writes:
>2frlclover@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>
>I would object if this happened to my name, but moving on....
>
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I am a beginner in this field. I heard that Class "A" amplifier is the best.
So,
>> I plan to build one. Has anyone out there build a Mark V. Electronics Class
"A"
>> amplifier ? Or any kit amplifier ?
>
>Have fun, you'll learn much and enjoy it.
>BUT.... don't feel the need to build a class-A amplifier.  Many 
>wonderful amps, that few of us can afford, aren't class-A.  In
>addition, many so-called class-A amps, are not.  They "stretch"
>the truth (lie).
>
>A class-a amp must dissipate 200% of its rated power at all times;
>thus it is large, inefficient, and expensive.  One popular way to
>save money and metal is to lower the power, which can lead to 
>clipping distortion (high) while reducing residual distortion
>caused by class-AB operation (low).  Bad trade-off.
>

I believe that the disapation of a class A amp is 200% of rated power only with
no signal. It decreases to 100% at full output.

John Byrns

Xref: sparky rec.audio:7171 rec.video:6060
From: jonke@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Stephen Jonke)
Newsgroups: rec.audio,rec.video
Subject: Re: CD rot -- who gives a damn?
Date: 9 Apr 92 14:21:16 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center

In article <1992Apr9.140703.9496@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov>, jonke@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Stephen Jonke) writes:
> 

Oi!  If I could push off my post as part of the "joke" I would, but alas
I have to admit that I was duped (in fact doubly duped.)  I hate April
fools jokes anyway!  At least I pointed out that the article hadn't been
verified -- that's worth two points isn't it?  (insert smiley face)

Steve
From: smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Air?  Wossat? (was Re: Terms)
Date: 9 Apr 92 16:53:58 GMT
Reply-To: P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Organization: University of Bristol

In article <1190696@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com> kurts@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Kurt Strain) writes:
>		  Kurt's Audiophilese-English Dictionary
>
>The best way to understand these terms is to listen to really high-end
>systems and try to observe them.  It comes a little at a time.

Thanks, Kurt.

Apropos the tiny bit I quoted, I can't speak for some of the more
complicated terms (maybe I need an upgrade? :-) but certainly for the
simpler ones, once you've heard it, you'll recognise it, even if you
weren't absolutely sure what you were looking for at first.

-- 
Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
 P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk - ..!uunet!uknet!bsmail!p.smee - Tel +44 272 303132
From: wood@uk.tele.nokia.fi (Peter Wood)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: New LP-CD flame material
Date: 7 Apr 92 15:27:01 GMT
	<1992Apr6.193457.15311@news.eng.convex.com>
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications, Transmission Product Development,
	Cambridge, UK

>>>>> On 6 Apr 92 19:34:57 GMT, jgardner@convex.com (John B. Gardner) said:

John> Anyway, Kurt (or anybody) have you an opinion on DCC (or MD)?  A recent
John> article in SR or Audio indicated that extensive ABX tests with a wide
John> variety of source material (and test equipment) found that there was
John> *no* reviewer who could indicate any difference what so ever between DCC
John> processing and straight-wire.

John> This is significant, not only could the (fairly elite) panel not
John> identify the processed signal, they could not statistically determine
John> there was any difference at all.

At this side of the Atlantic, I'm not familiar with the two magazines you
quote.  However our own Hifi World magazine went to a demo laid on by Philips
and joined a panel who listened and could hear very little or no discernible
difference.  However, they commented that the music that was used in the
demonstration played to the strengths, not the weaknesses of the PASC system
(the music was, in the main, light classical).

This sounds similar to the situation/demonstration you describe.

However, after studying the technical principles of the system, Hifi World
requested another audition using source material of their choice.  They went
armed with heavier rock material, which clearly exposed the weaknesses of PASC
- they said that the differences were audible, that detail was definitely
being lost, though the resulting quality would be acceptable for a mass-market
system.  To their credit, the staff organising the demonstration agreed with
everything the reviewers said.

So I don't think that you're quite justified in your rather sweeping
acceptance of PASC.

Cheers
Pete


--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Peter Wood,   Nokia Telecommunications,  Transmission Product Development -
-                    Cambridge, UK.  Tel:  +44 223 423 123                  -
- External Email: wood@uk.tele.nokia.fi         Internal Email: NTL02::WOOD -
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: root@irisa.fr (Operator)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Turtable advice
Date: 8 Apr 92 13:26:22 GMT
Organization: IRISA, Rennes (Fr)

I previously own only a CD player but I recently bought a turntable just to compare
with CD.
It's an old thorens mk155 with a grado mc + .
I am novice in turntable and I'm looking for any informations about
turntable in general and about this thorens in particular.
How to tune it, possible mods etc ...
For the moment I just change the cables and the connectors but I plan to
change the base by heavy and thick plywood to increase the weight and 
to add some rubber isolators.
Any others idees are welcome !

Thanks

 ___________________
/_______  _______  /        Thierry LECONTE
       / /      / /            BULL/IRISA
      / /      / /         Campus de Beaulieu
     / /      / /_____     35042 RENNES CEDEX
    /_/      /_______/           FRANCE
email : leconte@irisa.fr   telex : 950473 UNIRISA
phone : 99 84 72 93        fax   : 99 38 38 32 
bureau AB 302
From: smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Thought for the day
Date: 6 Apr 92 14:45:28 GMT
Reply-To: P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Organization: University of Bristol

In article <180885@pyramid.pyramid.com> lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
>In article <1992Apr3.142522.24187@bristol.ac.uk> P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
>>
>>In the intro to one of his last numbers he said 'There's one thing
>>you've got to understand about us Americans.  We believe that if it's
>>louder, it's more real.'  I immediately thought of rec.audio.
>   
>   Wasn't Spinal Tap a BRITISH rock group?   

To tell the truth, I've never been sure.  Seem to recall that they were
in the movie, but I believe the most recent incarnation of them that
I've heard of was American.

Either way, they demonstrate my thesis.  Certainly loud, and people
over here don't seem to believe they're real, so that must be an
American trait. :-)

-- 
Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
 P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk - ..!uunet!uknet!bsmail!p.smee - Tel +44 272 303132
From: lionel@cs.city.ac.uk (Lionel Tun)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: James Bond microphone wanted
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:11:01 GMT
Organization: City University, London

In article <9204042122.aa09981@Bonnie.ics.uci.edu> mmcguire@Bonnie.ICS.UCI.EDU writes:
>Netters,
>  I live in an apt. complex with very thin walls.  I can tell whenever anyone
>is talking in the next apt., but I can not understand it unless I put my ear
>to the wall.  Is there some sort of microphone that I can attach to the wall
>that will pick up voices in the next apt.?  If so, what is it, where is it, and
>apprx. how much does it cost?
>
>Me

I think pressing your ear hard against the wall will give the best
reproduction. I can't see how a microphone can possibly improve on
that. Maybe your signal is not high enough. Ask your neighbours to
speak up a bit:-). A high quality wine glass can be used if you 
don't like having your ear against the wall, but it does diminish
the volume and clarity a little. Presumable anything which samples
only a small area of the wall is going to be inferior to having
your ear agains the whole of the wall. Experts?

Your best bet is probably to drill a small hole through the wall
(when your neighbours are out) and stick a small condensor mike
through the hole. Make sure the hole comes out somewhere unseen
like behind a picture or plant or something. (Do you know the
layout of their apartment? If not you may have to break in while
they are out to have a look around, or else if you are good at
acting, you can dress up as a TV licence inspector and knock on
the door. If you are auditioning for the James Bond part these
activities should be good practice for you.) Alternatively if it
is for a short time, you could conceal a radio mike in the apart-
ment. However the battery life is in the region of hours, not
days.

Lionel Tun

--
Lionel Tun   (lionel@cs.city.ac.uk)
Vision Group, City University, London, EC1V 0HB. 071-477 8000 x 3889
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: jgardner@convex.com (John B. Gardner)
Subject: Re: New LP-CD flame material
Summary: Strawman! Strawman!
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 03:14:15 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <ku1ib2INN2kp@network.ucsd.edu> mbk@lyapunov.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel) writes:
>I bet that if the same test were done, but with standard CD technology A/D 
>and D/A vs. straight wire, one would get the same null result.

Strawman!  Strawman!  :-)

>And yet, how do CD players sound different if digital sounds like nothing?

Yikes!  I thought 99% of us have agreed that there *are* audiable differences 
between CD players.  To suddenly purport that "all digital sounds like 
nothing" is a pretty major leap.

First, you'd lose the above bet.  Unequivocal ABX tests have shown CD players 
can and do sound different, most notably the 1st generation with brick wall 
filters and poor D/A's vs. the current 1 bit (bitstream) technology.

Second, CD and DCC technology are worlds apart.  Did you know that DCC 
actually has (variable) 18 bit resolution?  It most certainly affects the 
data recorded in a major way, such that it would be a poor choice for 
archival purposes, but hey - the report said despite the modulation of the 
noise floor and variable quantitization, the process on 1st generation
processsing was inaudiable - which is significant.

>I find it very plausible that some of the CD players one buys off the shelf
>are measurably "out of spec" compared to the prototype A-D/digital
>processing/D-A hardware that the engineers rigged up for a scientific test.
>Perhaps quality control is poor enough that different units of the same model
>can have widely varying performance.

Maybe, but one could argue that the *engineered* performance differences
between the CD players of 5 years ago and today are audiable.  Certainly
the differences between "middle ground" players now are much smaller than 
in the past, if due to nothing else than not relying on ultra-percison D/A's
thanks to 1 bit technology.

-- 
   /\ /_  _    jgardner@convex.com
   \//_//_/
   /     /     "Poor is the man whose pleasures depend
  /    \/       on the permission of another" -Madonna
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: mageej@nason104.its.rpi.edu (Jeffrey A Magee)
Subject:  -==))) JVC CD Player BARGAIN (((==-
Keywords: cd, cd player
Reply-To: mageej@rpi.edu
Organization: Rennselaer Polytechnic Institute.
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 02:07:41 GMT


        Are you looking for one of the BEST CD Players on the market?

                             ---> YES!!! <---

        Are you willing to pay list price for this dream machine?

                           ---> HELL NO!!! <---

        I though so :)

        So I present unto you the JVC XL-M505TN *7* Disc Changer for $225
        (6 disc cartriges and a single disc tray)

Here's the specs:


        Frequency Response:             2 Hz - 20 kHz
        Sampling:                       4 X 44.1 kHz
        Total Harmonic Distortion:      0.0020% (at 1 kHz)
        Channel Separation:             94 dB!
        Dynamic Range:                  98 dB!!
        Signal/Noise:                   108 dB!!!
        Wow and Flutter:                What? Sorry, I don't think so...

Features:

        Pulse Edge Modulation Differential Linearity Errorless D/A Converter
                (don't know what that means, but it sounds NICE!)
        Compu-Link (controll thru your JVC recieve
        32 Track/Disc program memory + a unique program mode for dubbing
                to tape, where you enter tape length and then program the
                selections.  It tells you time remaining, and once you
                finish, it automatically controls the recording process
                (requires a JVC Compu-link deck)
        Random & Repeat play
        Color - Titanium

        REMOTE CONTROL!!!!!  -- batteries included ;)

        All manuals and documentation included.


Reason for selling:

        Elvis needs boats & I need money ;)


-- 
I'm a *Sun-King* baby...  (mageej@rpi.edu)
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: visintre@infonode.ingr.com (Bob Visintainer)
Subject: FORSALE Speakers and CABLES
Summary: For SAle
Keywords: Speakers and cables
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Distribution: rec
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 17:35:12 GMT


FOR SALE:	Martin Logan Quest Speakers, 3 months old, Warranty, 
		dk. oak / black, as new.  $3,100. Plus shipping.

		NBS Speaker Cables, 2 pr., 8ft., $300./pr. or $550 for
		both pair.

 		NBS Serpent Interconnects, 2 sets, 4 ft., $550./set.


		Call Bob at 205-730-2024 between 8 A.M. and 3 P.M. C.S.T.
From: chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com (Chris Christensen)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Blind Listening
Date: 17 Apr 92 05:12:46 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <1992Apr16.220724.4187@intelhf.hf.intel.com> 
labelle@intelhf.hf.intel.com (George La Belle) writes:

>	I second this! Musicians notoriously have "poor" stereo systems.
>
>	I think the quality of sound is simply not noticed by them, for the
>	most part - just like you can watch a good movie and get all of
>	its meaning in black and white!

Me thinks that you are taunting me!   I'll bite!!!!!

I can get a full Image from a good black and white picture.  I have
a live recording that I did a few years ago.  It's in mono.  It still
brings back memories of the live show!

-- 
Chris Christensen                  The opinions I express are my own,
chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com            and sometimes they are wrong!
916-478-3419 FAX 916-478-3887      After all, I AM only human.
From: strong@tc.fluke.COM (Norm Strong)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: A question for TUBE-lovers
Date: 13 Apr 92 14:15:59 GMT
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA

In article <1992Apr9.133543.11460@watserv1.waterloo.edu> awelker@watarts.UWaterloo.ca (a welker) writes:
}In article <1992Apr9.061726.9378@usl.edu> ws@cacs.usl.edu (Werasak Suengtaworn) writes:
}>Hi folks, what are the best (sonically) brand names of 12AX7 and 6DJ8, 
}>or substitute ones, you ever heard? 
}>
}>werasak
}
}Telefunken!

The brand name on the tube has nothing to do with the identity of the
manufacturer.  One factory may make all the 12AX7's in the world, and
simply brand them for each OEM--or they may not.  You really can't tell.

-- 

Norm Strong  (strong@tc.fluke.com)
2528 31st S.   Seattle WA 98144   USA
From: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Golden Ear perspective on digital......
Date: 10 Apr 92 22:29:41 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA

In article <92101.124706MSC109@psuvm.psu.edu> MSC109@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>
>>"all tones are sine waves, complex tones are combinations thereof.."
>
>Just a simpleminded question. Are triangular and square waves, etc.,
>just simple combinations of sine waves? 
   
   You can make a perfect square wave or triangle wave from a simple
   sine wave...then adding harmonics of that (the "fundamental")
   wave.  To create a PERFECT square or sine wave, you need to add
   the harmonics into infinity.  To create a square or sine wave
   with a given amount of distortion you just add enough harmonics
   to create that amount of distortion.   One is all the even
   harmonics, the other is all the odd harmonics.  

   Of course to reproduce a square or triangle wave with absolute
   fidelity, you would also need an amplifier (and speaker, and
   cable, and...you get the picture...) with infinite frequency
   response.

   In practice it is enough to create only the first "N"
   harmonics,,,where "N" is frequency dependent.   Basically as soon
   as the harmonics move up and out of the 20 KHz range, they are
   not needed.   


     
>Does the A/D or D/A converter
>see these waves as sine waves? What is the D/A output of a triangular
>wave recorded digitally (at, say 10KHz)?
>
    The A/D converter sees a band-limited signal.  This is true for
    ANY practical circuit input...as nothing has an infinite
    frequency response.  Sometimes the A/D converter is fed from
    additional band filters...on other designs the removal of
    aliasing is done numerically.

    And at 10 KHz, you have a real problem telling the difference
    between a square and triangle wave.  The first harmonic (which
    one has and the other doesn't) is at 20 Khz.  The second
    harmonic (which one has and the other doesn't--but the reverse)
    is even higher.  

>I guess what I'm getting at is this: does the Nyquist theorem hold for
>non-sine waves at high frequency, or are all tones sinusoidal in the
>digital domain?
>
    No, all tones can be said to be sinusoidal for the purposes of
    evaluating the effects of a common amplifier, crossover, or D/A,
    A/D on the tone.  Digital has nothing to do with it other than
    that it is often used as an example....

    But crossovers also have an effect which can most easily be
    explained by Fourier (or Hartley) analysis...which takes a
    complex (non-sine) waveform and expresses it as a series of
    harmonically and NON-harmonically related sine waves.  

    For example, a organ tone might have a 100 Hz fundamental..which
    would spew forth from your woofer cone.  It's 200, 300, 400,
    etc. harmonics would come out the midrange...or even the
    tweeter.
From: Janne.Anttila@lut.fi (Janne Anttila)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: WIERD CD PLAYER
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:16:48 GMT
	<sduRzNC00Uh745it4a@andrew.cmu.edu>
Organization: Lappeenranta University of Technology, Finland
Disclaimer: Ei kaupungin ty|ntekij|ill{ ole luppaoikaa.

In article <sduRzNC00Uh745it4a@andrew.cmu.edu> sp3u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Shiv Swarup Pathak) writes:

   I'm looking in to buying the Pioneer 7700 CD player.  It has an unusual
   design which accepts the CD upside down (music side up).  Pioneer says
   that this eliminates skipping and improves bass and transparency.  

Yes, so they say to sell their "revolutionary" idea. The "stable platter
mechanism" might reduce skipping if the player is placed on a violently
vibrating surface, but I really can't understand how it could affect on
bass and transparency. In analog turntables platter is one of the most 
important parts and certainly affects sound quality, but this is not the
case with digital CD players.

More than an improvement Pioneer's platter is a nuisance. At least if
you have been using other CD players for years. You have to either
turn the disc after taking it from the jewel box or store them label
side down in their boxes. I guess most of us like to see the disc
label every now and then. And if you happen to drop the disc on the
floor it's even more likely to land on its delicate label side...
It's fun to see a first timer trying to play a disc on these new
Pioneers, there should be display message like "try turning disc".

No doubt that Pioneer 7700 is sonically a good player, though.

  
--
	Spirits make me move in mysterious ways...
						   Janne Anttila
From: smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Mini system question.
Date: 10 Apr 92 15:12:55 GMT
Reply-To: P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Organization: University of Bristol

In article <1992Apr9.213747.13158@apollo.hp.com> champine@apollo.HP.COM (Mark Champine) writes:
>I have a slightly different question along the same lines:  Can I put together
>a system from individual components that sounds better than a mini system, and
>for not much more money?
>
>I listened to a Panasonic mini system (SC-CH55) and it sounded suprisingly
>good for $500.   I wonder though, if I could do better spending :
>
>   Speakers $200
>   Reciever $200
>       CD   $120
>      Tape  $130
>   --------------
>            $650
>
>And get a better sounding system for slightly more money. 

Yes.  See my other posting today about 'picking a shop'.  You can
definitely get better sound by going to separates, AND you get the
added advantage that you can upgrade to better stuff one box at a time
as the money comes in.  If you buy a mini, improvement is an all or
nothing proposition.  

>1.  Are my price ratios out of whack to maximize sound quality / dollar ?

Don't ask.  We disagree violently in here about that.  *My* guess is
that you'll have a hard time finding a reasonable CD for $120, and that
you'll need to push a bit more money that way; if so, I'd trim a bit
off the receiver and the speakers, in that order.  I *know* there are
people in here who disagree violently with that, and the only real
answer is that you need to find a shop which will demo things for you
so you can check out the possibilities for yourself.

-- 
Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
 P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk - ..!uunet!uknet!bsmail!p.smee - Tel +44 272 303132