HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla)
Subject: Re: Leg Protection for cold weather?
Organization: Rescorla for himself.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 18:45:25 GMT

In article <1elu71INNhck@im4u.cs.utexas.edu> osborn@cs.utexas.edu (John Howard Osborn) writes:
>In article <skais7k@zola.esd.sgi.com> cj@sgi.com writes:
>>For warmth during cool weather (since nothing we've had so far
>>in northern Cal could be actually called "cold"), I've been
>>wearing spandex athletic shorts under my jeans.  Well, they're
>>not really "shorts", since the ones I've been using are
>>ankle-length.  
>)smirk(  Not to pick on you or anything, but this looks like
>a prime example of danskinaphobia - the masculine fear of
>wearing tights.
CJ Silverio is female. Trust me.

> Or, in some cases, (see above) of rationalizing
>"Well, yes I'm wearing a skin-tight hip-to-ankle garment, but
>they're shorts, or running pants, not tights."
Well, I personally have worn skin tight hip to full foot garments
which are genuine "danskin" or some varient thereof. I'd wear
pantyhose (I figure they're cheaper) but I can't figure out
the sizing.
-Ekr

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Rescorla, DoD#431 (Nighthawk S)              rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu
Former chemist now CM400 mechanic                 ekr@eitech.com(preferred)
                "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: crowder@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Mark Crowder)
Subject: Re: Slip-sliding away (was Re: What would you ride...)
Organization: TI Semiconductor Process and Design Center
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:12:30 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.194212.6271@colorado.edu> alex@lyra.colorado.edu (Alex Matthews) writes:
>"You are riding your bike in a straight line.  Is your front wheel rotating
>about its hub, or about its contact point with the road, or both, or
>neither?"
  Movement about an axis (hub) is "rotation".  Movement in a straight
  line is "translation".  The contact point with the road is not
  relevent if there is no acceleration.
>
Mark Crowder                                            crowder@spdc.ti.com 
Dallas, Tx                    88 BMW R100RS         Texas Instruments, Inc.
"Some degree of honesty must be present in conversation, or it lapses into
a lower form of art such as literature" 
                         -- P.J. O'Rourke "Republican Party Reptile"

Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: jet@boxer.nas.nasa.gov (J. Eric Townsend)
Subject: Re: FORTUNE magazine profiles Hells Angels
Organization: Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation, NASA Ames
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:00:25
Distribution: usa

"bd" == Brice Dowaliby <bd%fluent@dartmouth.EDU> writes:

bd> Fortune [magazine] says:
bd>      The feds believe the Hells Angels and the other large outlaw
bd> gangs earn up to $1 billion a year worldwide from drug dealing,

Wait.  I thought there were only 300 or so "real" Angels in the *world*.
I suspect the "other large outlaw gangs" are *much* larger than the
Angels...

--
             J. Eric Townsend --  jet@nas.nasa.gov -- 415.604.4311
               '92 R100R, DoD# 0378, BMWOA, AMA, ACLU, EFF, CPSR
                                "HotHead Rules!"
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin)
Subject: Re: SURVEY -- PLEASE PARTICIPATE!
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 04:36:53 GMT

Huh uh buddy.  Speak for yourself.  I'm the biggest gearhead here.
I've been riding and fixing and talking shit about bikes since before you
were born---minor exaggeration---I have no idea how I got into computers
here at college.  I just want to go home so I can ride and be free again.

Send all the surveys to me, thats right---bring em on!


    -----"There are only two types of bikers-- those who ride Harleys and
          those who wish they could."

                                       -I don't know
                                        I don't care
 Ride to Live-Live to Ride

sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: manes@magpie.nycenet.edu (Steve Manes)
Subject: Re: NYTimes Letter To Editor
Organization: Manes and Associates, NYC
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:52:05 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

Sebastian C Sears (scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu) wrote:
: 
: From letters to editor column, New York Times, November 19th, reprinted without
: permission:
: 
: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
: 
: 	To the Editors:
: 	Richard Brookhiser makes a valid point about not judging people by
: 	their wardrobes in his Oct. 31 Op-Ed article on what happened to him 
: 	when a fellow Manhattanite slapped a sticker for the Republican ticket 
: 	on his motorcycle jacket, "Bikers for Bush-Quayle. No Kidding."
:
:       <stuff deleted>
: 			Barbara Ann Ann Mahoney, Water Mill, L.I., Nov. 1 1992
: 

Barbara Mahoney is a regular on Genie's Motorcycle Roundtable, in case
anyone's interested.
-- 
Stephen Manes					   manes@magpie.nycenet.edu
Manes and Associates/Commontech-NoHo		   New York, NY, USA  =o&>o
From: conrad@pico.qpsx.oz.au (Conrad Drake)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: FOR SALES SUPERMOTORCYCLES Trade mark DNEPR from USSR
Date: 18 Nov 92 00:32:36 GMT
Reply-To: conrad@pico.qpsx.oz.au
Distribution: world
Organization: QPSX Communications
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

adis@adis.msk.su () writes:
[delete,delete]
: 
:   PRICES:   MORE THEN MODERATE FOR MOTORCYCLES OF THIS CLASS
:             DNEPR-11:     1695 $
:             DNEPR-16:     1895 $
: 
:   DELIVERY TERM:     EX WORKS
: 
[delete,delete] 
:   Motorcycles have passed homologations in EUROPE.
And also in Australia.  Both the Dnepr  & the Ural are available from
the local distributor, (whose name escapes me), who has done the mod's
needed for a) ADR compliance (Dot tyres, globes &tc) b) local
conditions.  Apparently some of the parts (oil & coil?) don't like 45C
temperatures.   They also do a comprehensive pre-delivery using lots of
Loktite & silicon.  


There have been a number of reviews in the  local bike rags which have
been overwhelmingly positive with two caveats.  1) this not a '90s bike
that looks like a '60s bike, it's a brand new '60s bike.  2) predeliver
carefully & to suit local conditions.

This is definitely a bike for Persig devotees!

If anyone is particularily interested I will go and dig up proper
reference to some reviews. Or if you hassle me enough I could photocopy
or scan them. P'haps.

Conrad Drake

--
"A carnival of misery so tragically our own,
 Where gathered 'round the ballot box we reap what we have sown"
               "These Festivals" Leunig, 1992

Email: conrad@pico.qpsx.oz.au
Snail: QPSX Communications, Private Bag 24, West Perth 6005, Australia. 
Numbers:(ph) +61 9 324 1641, (fx) +61 9 321 2984 (dod) 0604

Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
Subject: Re: Helmet Cleaning
Reply-To: fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 14:30:19 GMT

If you are looking for a liner for a helmet they are made 
for the US Military and are called "Liner, helmet, cold
weather" these are made to be worn under the new kevlar
helmet and even have slots cut for the chin strap. They
only come in camoflage but do cover your ears and chin
using velcro flaps, I think theyu are about $6.00 at
clothing sales so they are probably $7.00 outside in an
army/navy or surplus store. If interested I can bring in
the FSN so that if you find one youll know if it is the
same thing. 
FSN=Federal Supply Number
-- 
##########################################################
There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES 
                 and TARGETS !!!
#1/XS1100LH	#2/10/10/92
Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
Internet: fist@iscp.bellcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist  
#include <std.disclaimer> My opinions are my own!!!
I Don't shop in malls, I by my jeans, jackets and ammo
in the same store.
From: cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Japanese Motorcycle Repair Kit
Date: 17 Nov 92 03:59:46 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Nov16.202109.28337@asl.dl.nec.com> drinckes@nzl.abk.nec.co.jp writes:

>Have you noticed it's usually the grottiest, rustiest cars pumping out the 
>most smoke and oil that have the Greenpeace stickers on?  Yeah, save the 
>environment with carbon dioxide.  Right on.

What a moron! It is elementary chemistry that the more smoke and oil
the car pumps out the _less_ carbon dioxide it is producing. In any
case there is nothing wrong with carbon dioxide -- it happens to be
the main exhaust gas produced by animal lungs, and is one of the main
foods of plant life. But if you really want to stop producing carbon
dioxide I suggest you stop breathing.

-- 
Chris Malcolm    cam@uk.ac.ed.aifh          +44 (0)31 650 3085
Department of Artificial Intelligence,    Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK                DoD #205
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: What would you ride on a long distance trip?
From: emd@ham.almanac.bc.ca
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 21:31:50 PST
Distribution: world
Organization: Robert Smits

brady_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Brady) writes:

> Recently I've been thinking about taking a long distance solo ride -- a ride 
> Alaska from my home in New Hampshire. I'd ride the Trans-Alaska Hwy through
> Canada (my 2nd favourite country, and sometimes my most!), go up through the
> Territories to Dawson, over to Circle, down to Fairbanks, then Anchorage. Fro
> there, I'll take the state ferry to Sitka and Juneau, then down to Vancouver,
> into the Pacific Northwest, then trundle my way back across the USA to New
> England.
> 


I suggest one small diversion from your suggested route, that you
consider going from Alaska to Prince Rupert on the US ferry, then down 
the inside passage on the BC Ferry to Port Hardy. You could then travel 
down the length of Vancouver Island, and return to the US from Victoria. 
A really picturesque trip.

Have fun, either way.


Robert Smits Ladysmith BC  | I don't wanna pickle,
emd@ham.almanac.bc.ca      | just wanna ride my motorsickle - AG
From: garyb@lclark.edu (Gary Bliefernich)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Cycle World: the Pot Calling the Kettle Black?
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:50:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: lclark.1992Nov16.195009.2121
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR

>Oh, and if you wnat to flame me on the net, please use all of my posting
>not just a section, as it gives a distorted view of my opinion, Thanks!!

>I miss Ed Hertfelder!!!
>./gb

Pleas disreguard this part, It's monday and I shouldn't read news while
asleep, let alone respond.

He did use all of my post./gb
From: dboddy@pulsar.lrmsc.loral.com (Dave Boddy 5973)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: DOD launches payload???
Date: 23 Nov 92 16:44:03 GMT
Organization: Loral Rolm Mil-Spec Computers

In article <2193@shaman.wv.tek.com> robd@orca.wv.tek.com writes:
>From sci.space.news....
>
>
>Newsgroups: sci.space.news
>Subject: NASA Daily News for 11/20/92 (Forwarded)
>Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
>
>Daily                 News
>Friday, November 20, 1992  24-hour audio service at 202/755-1788
>
> % Space flight management sets December 2 as launch date 
>                  for STS-53;
> % Third NASA Town Meeting begins today at 1:00 pm from 
>                  Indianapolis;
> % DOD payload scheduled for launch aboard Scout from 
>                  Vandenberg tomorrow;
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
>
>
>Alright damnit! What are you Californicators up to now????

 Well, what would YOU do with all those DoD polo shirts ?????

-- 
Dining on Duckheads..Driving over Dickheads..Dunking of Donuts...Damn i usta know...
DoD # 0677   (408) 432-5973  dboddy@pulsar.lrmsc.loral.com
From: mstorer@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Michael Storer)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: For sale, 1979 XS1100 Special
Keywords: For sale
Date: 17 Nov 92 14:55:31 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.



For Sale, parts or whole:

1979 Yamaha XS1100 Special

20 K Miles
Recent clutch, shocks, and exhaust.

Bike was stored indoors since 1987 with a 1/2 tank of gas.  Tank 
is consequently filled with gunk.  The carbs have also suffered a 
similar fate.  I have not tried to start it, but the engine does 
turn freely.

Other extras include:

New high back seat, and original seat in good condition.

Sissy bar and luggage rack.

	I would like to sell it whole, but will consider parting out.  
I also can deliver within a 3 hour radius of Bridgewater NJ.  Make me
an offer I can't refuse.


Michael Storer
 work # 908-932-5896
 home # 908-722-5040
email	mstorer@gandalf.rutgers.edu


	
-- 

Michael Storer
Telecommunications Analyst
Rutgers University Libraries
Voice:	908-932-5896
Fax:	908-932-5888
E-mail:	mstorer@gandalf.rutgers.edu

"Dedicated to making the knotwork a network....."
From: cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Break-in (what is it?)
Date: 19 Nov 92 12:21:37 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <4206@unisql.UUCP> ray@unisql.UUCP (Ray Shea) writes:
>In article <5122@prcrs.prc.com> terry@prcrs.prc.com (Terry Cunningham) writes:

>>Possibly the worst thing I can think of being is young and hip.

>How come everyone I know who thinks that is old and dorky?

An old dork writes:

Young people suffering from hipness often ask this question. The
answer is simple. Because people who are young and hip are like people
who have just spent a fortune on a ridiculous piece of advertising
hype only vaguley resembling a useful motorcycle: they'd lose too much
face admitting the truth, so they club together with similar
unfortunates and persuade each other that what has happened to them is
really great, and everybody else just doesn't understand the cool
subtle mystique of it.

This is a very distressing condition, and the sufferers often wake up
sweating in the night. Fortunately most people grow out of it as they
older.

-- 
Chris Malcolm    cam@uk.ac.ed.aifh          +44 (0)31 650 3085
Department of Artificial Intelligence,    Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK                DoD #205
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: datasbld@bnr.ca (Datasbuild)
Subject: Re: HELMETS
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, UK
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 12:19:03 GMT

Dave Williams (dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us) wrote:
: 
: -> Many studies and much personal testimony indicates that a primary
: -> cause of motorcycle - automobile accidents result from poor
: -> conspicuity of motorcycles.
: 
:  I was rather amused to find out that "poor conspicuity" has also been
: a common reason given for wrecks involving marked police cars, fire
: engines, and ambulances.  Interestingly, the use of lights and/or siren
: didn't appear to make much difference.
: 
:  The usual sworn statement of the citizen involved was, of course, "I
: didn't SEE him..."

Some bobbies were killed recently.  They were on the hard-shoulder of the
motorway, with all the lights on, including the American style nick-nick bar
on the roof, full of flashing red and blue lights.  A lorry ran into them at
about 65 MPH and killed them.  What the lorry was doing, driving on the 
hard-shoulder, I don't know.  Perhaps another Brit-DoDer can enlighten me,
but this serves as an example that existance is a risk, whatever the
circumstances.  Enjoy it while you can, "now" maybe all you have!


Nick (the existentialistical Biker)   MAG 73516   DoD 1069   Concise Oxford


M'Lud.
From: ljb@parkcity.dr.att.com (BLO54620-BonhamLJ(DR2194)240)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Fastest Bike Known
Date: 20 Nov 92 18:21:18 GMT

Hopefully the title got some attention.  I chose it because I've noticed FAQ type
newbie questions don't get much response on this net and I, unfortunately, have 
such a question.

I am considering buying a new bike, which would also be my first bike, and I'm
not sure what to get.  Also, I've not found a wealth of info talking to bike
dealers here in the Denver area and have had to make assessments based on
reading the magazines and talking to the few people I know who ride.

Let me narrow the field for recomendations down with what I've decided up to this
point.

A. Probably not a hog, though I love the style and sound.
B. Not a dual sport, as I have little interest in dirt riding.
C. Sport bikes really appeal to me.  They seam to be light, nimble and well
   powered.  This type of bike relates well to the types of cars I own and like.
   ('68 Charger R/T, '70 454 Vette).  Also I have some experience road racing
   cars, yes I know it's very different from bikes but some skills might transfer.
   Drawbacks as I see it are the scruntched up riding position and the fact that
   one might be too much bike for a novice.  Would staying under 650cc's alter
   this perception?
D. Sport touring.  Sounds like this might be the ticket, but I'm concerned that
   like many other compromises, these won't do either very well.
E. Standard.  The Seca II looks interesting and felt reasonably good in the
   show room.  Most I've looked at don't have much flavor (eg. Nighthawk)and I
   wonder if I'll soon be bored with one.
F. Harley clone.  Come highly recomended but I don't think they would handle as
   well as I'd like.

Some info about me and the type of riding I plan to do.  6'1'', in good shape, 
legs are rather long, proportionate to the rest of me.  I live in the Rocky
Mountains and would like something that handles responsively yet feels stable and
not overly twitchy.  The powerplant must perform well between 5000' and
11000' altitude.  This includes both standing acceleration and roll on.  Must
have fantastic brakes.  I forsee mainly riding on the weekends for recreation.
Mainly in the mountains with occaisional vists to Denver.  Roads will range from 
country dirt to eight lane interstates.  I would like to be able to ride for an
afternoon or whole day with out lots of breaks and without feeling hammered at
the end of the ride, but I want the bike to reward enthusiastic (not insane) 
input when called upon.

Hope you folks can help.  Spending a bunch of bucks on the wrong machine would
probably burn me out to the point of selling the beast and not ever returning to
the sport, so your advice will really be appreciated.

Thanks.

Larry
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: howland@noc2.arc.nasa.gov (Curtis Howland)
Subject: Re: GINA'S STORY - 9 YR OLD ON DAD'S MOTO
Organization: NASA Science Internet Project Office
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 15:55:34 GMT

In article <3880166@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, gharriso@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Graeme Harrison) writes:
|> Gina's Story 
|> Forwarded by JD Whitaker DoD #0729, written by Gina Whitaker,
|> age 9, on 11/8/92
...
|> all around you.  I like the fresh air and you can smell things, but sometimes
|> the smells are stinky - like buses and skunks.

The immediacy of the smells, trees-flowers-road, was
one of the first things I noticed about riding, and
one thing I consistantly look forward to.

Welcome to R.M., Gina.

Curt
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: csl@swl.msd.ray.com (Scott Lilliott)
Subject: Re: Indian???? BSA???
Organization: Raytheon Company, Tewksbury, MA
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:40:36 GMT

labrg@emory.edu (Ryan Montieth Gill) writes:


>	I am somewhat confused...indians are American made right...BSA
>	is British or did BSA aquire indian or something...different
>	people have given me different info concerning the above...

>					Ryan

If I remember correctly (flames aside), Royal Enfield bought the rights to the
Indian *name* and used it for some Enfields (Enfield Indian) imported into 
the U.S. the exact model names I don't know. Royal Enfield did have a 750cc
twin Interceptor in the mid/late 60's. After R-E closed it's doors, the Indian
name was used by ???? for minibikes and small displ. dirt bikes (100/125).

Can anyone else elaborate on Indian history ?
S.
-- 
#   Scott Lilliott -- csl@swl.msd.ray.com 
 #  AMA #600897   "Countersteering is like benchracing. A bunch of posers   
#   DoD #0227      standing around the parts counter lying about all the
 #  INOA #8563     great twisties they've steered through."- Bill Ranck DoD 496
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: druth@erg.sri.com (Doug Ruth)
Subject: Re: Alaska Route (was What would you ride on a long distance trip?)
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, CA
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 19:04:56 GMT

In article <62265@mimsy.umd.edu> leavitt@cs.umd.edu (Mr. Bill) writes:
>ObOriginalThread:  For this ride, I'd select a R100GS P/D.  I don't expect
>to see a lot of Exxon stations between Inuvik and Dawson...
>
Just happened to be in that area this summer.  There's only one gas
station in the 460 mile stretch between Dawson City and Inuvik.



-- 
-- Doug Ruth         | druth@erg.sri.com  | SRI International
-- '91 BMW R100GS/PD | Work:(415)859-3860 | 333 Ravenswood Ave.
-- AMA #: 197665     | Home:(415)962-9808 | Menlo Park, CA 94025
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com (Dances With Bikers)
Subject: Re: KEVLAR suits, any good?
Reply-To: blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:57:32 GMT

jah@slc.slac.stanford.edu writes:

>        I would like to find out what your opinions are about the 
>various KEVLAR riding suits on the market. I've seen/heard of three
>diferent brands. AEROstitch, Motosport, and Marsee.

I don't know about the others, but the Aerostich is nylon/Goretex, not
Kevlar.
-- 
Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland  blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com  BIX:blaine_g
580 Arapeen Drive, SLC, Utah 84108           Favorite road signs:
Dumper of Dirtbikes #46             FJ1200   Winding Road Next 77 Miles
My other motorcycle is a Quadracer           Caution: Passing Areas Not Marked
From: davet@loowit.wr.tek.com (Dave Tharp CDS)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: What would you ride on a long distance trip?
Date: 21 Nov 92 23:07:48 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix - Colorado Data Systems, Englewood, CO

In article <Bxyvzz.EE5@javelin.sim.es.com> blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com writes:
>martinn@mksol.dseg.ti.com (niels r martin) writes:
>
>>I have never had trouble riding my 78 Goldwing on gravel/dirt--of course I
>>don't drive like a crazyman either.
>
>What's the point of riding in the dirt if you _don't_ ride like a
>crazyman?
>
  What's the point of riding at _all_ if you don't ride like a crazyman?

  What's the point of having a bike that you can't ride like a crazyman?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Dave Tharp                      | DoD #0751   | "You can't wear out       |
| davet@loowit.WR.TEK.COM         | MRA #151    |   an Indian Scout,        |
| '88 K75S  '48 Indian Chief      | AHRMA #751  |  Or its brother the Chief.|
| '75 R90S(#151) '68 CB450(#751)  | AMA #524737 |  They're built like rocks |
| '65 R50/2/Velorex  '57 NSU Max  |             |   to take the knocks,     |
|       1936 BMW R12              | (Compulsive | It's the Harleys that     |
| My employer has no idea.        |   Joiner)   |   give you grief."        |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------