HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nsc!jrr@decwrl.dec.com (Jerry Roe)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .40 S&W Help Sought
Date: 3 Oct 92 13:21:25 GMT
Organization: National Semiconductor, Santa Clara

In article <20769@drutx.ATT.COM> ljb@parkcity.dr.att.com (BLO54620-BonhamLJ(DR2194)240) writes:
#
...
#However, I run into the same problem again and again with the Star. Namely,
#the 45 dgree chamfer that they put on the top side of the thumb safety
#severly reduces my ability to flick it into the "fire" position.
...
#My only thought on fixing this problem would be to silver solder some
#sort of extention or something which would square off that surface onto the
#top of the safety.
#This poses two problems.  First, why should I pay $400US or so for this
#beastie and then sink another $100 into gunsmithing when my box stock Colt
#Officers ACP does everthing the Star does and more in the same size range?

Last time I saw an Officer's Model, I sure thought it looked quite a bit
bulkier than the .40 Firestar...?

#Second, there's Massad Ayoob's rule of never, never, ever modify the
#safeties on a weapon because it could cost you dearly in court or on the
#street.  'Nuff said.

I don't think he was talking about the kind of modification you're
talking about.  He has said many, many times not to (for example)
remove the grip safety or magazine disconnect safety on any pistol that
has it.  This, by the way, is in reference to "in court".  Simply sculpting
the safety lever to make it more accessible for your own hand shouldn't
cause any liability problems.  (I said "shouldn't".)

On the other hand, *not* modifying it, if it doesn't fit your hand,
could cause you much more serious problems "on the street".

Whatever - although the .40 S&W is my preferred cartridge, I found the .40
Firestar to be simply too small for my hand.  Now, the .45 ACP model, that's
another matter...sized up just a little, same magazine capacity (6) as the
.40, fits my hand ju-u-ust right...{:^)
#
#LJB


Jerry Roe
jrr@nsc.nsc.com		...!{sun,pyramid,decwrl)!nsc!jrr
From: cower@SSD.intel.com (Rich Cower)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: A bunch of 223 reloading questions
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:39:12 GMT
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division, Intel Corp.


I'm planning on loading up a bunch of 223 ammo for a Colt HBAR. I'm
not looking for extremely accurate ammo, reliability is important.
I've found brass and bullets are inexpensive, TCCI has once fired 
military brass and Win. 55 gr. FMJ bullets for $54 per 1000. If anyone 
has any experience with this brass, bullets or company - please let me know.

Powder is not this easy. I can get Hodgson mil. spec powder - H108,
H872, H5010, H870 very inexpensively. I need about 8 lbs. for what I
plan to do, and these cost around $55 for a keg. I'd like to use
one of these powders, as the cost is right for what I'm trying to do. 
However, I can't find any loading data in my books (Speer or Nosler) for 
any of these powders in 223. Will they work? Which one might be best?
H335 runs about $78 per keg, will it do a good job with the 55 grain
bullet? I think the Nosler manual lists it as being most accuarte, but
they weren't using a Colt HBAR. TCCI has some powder they list as T-2202 
and T2208 for 223 and 308, anyone know what this stuff is? 

Does the new Hodgson loading manual has data for their powders?

Oh - TCCI is in Phoenix, this brass is cleaned. Midway has the same
stuff but de-primed and crimp removed, for a bit more money. I'm trying
to do this as inexpensively as possible.

I'm Clinton-proofing my hobby....thanks...rich
From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Dillon XL 650 progressive reloader
Date: 27 Sep 92 00:17:33 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <D2150096.oq3vv6@sproul.sproul.com> Sproul@sproul.sproul.com (Mark Sproul) writes:
#
#I just recieved my new Dillon 650 reloading press......
#...........  I will post a better
#review of it once I get it up and operatinal.

#[MODERATOR: Please do!]

Ditto. Also please detail how you are mounting it and how well that
works out. I'm considering one and want to know how massive a loading
bench I'm going to have to have. I use two RCBS presses now on a steel
reinforced plywood and 4x4 bench 38 inches high. That's ideal for my
height with these presses. The 650 appears to be a monster, table
size and strength, as well as ceiling clearance are concerns.

Gary
From: toby@milton.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rifling Twist Angles - stability
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:56:34 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Sep28.151736.17873@cbnewse.cb.att.com> sfaber@ihlpb.att.com (Steven R Faber) writes:
#Came across the book "Methods of Exterior Ballistics" written 
#just after WW1 that is a detailed mathematical treatment of 
#the subject, and has the answer we've been looking for.

[Equations deleted]
		
#So stability is independent of velocity or the caliber! 
#Don't you love it when everything drops out:)
#Guess Bart's post really summed things up.

#The above ratio implies that for greater stablity you want to
#concentrate the mass in the center of the bullet, so a longer projectile
#gives poorer stability, and denser air gives poorer stability.
#Stability is independent of the density of the projectile since it
#has the ratio of moments of inertia along the different axes.

Now, this is interesting.  Like other benchrest shooters,
I've had bullet stability problems in cooler, wetter weather
(not here in Seattle, of course :)...) but could compensate with
hotter loads.  Some shooters have gone to a 1:13 twist in 6PPC
for colder weather, from the 1:14 normally used.  Admittedly,
benchrest shooters are on the ragged edge of stability, like
their bullets :)

I've asked several top-flight shooters why they don't go
with a heavier, higher-BC bullet in a smaller caliber (like
22PPC) when conditions are windy.  This would keep the recoil
down, with enhanced wind-bucking ability.  For example, a
65gr .224 bullet has a higher BC than the 68gr .243 bullet
used in most 6PPCs, but would produce about the same
recoil levels.  However, the longitudinal moment of inertia
would be higher in the .224, and perhaps the stability
loss is a significant detriment to accuracy.

About the only way to get a higher BC without going to a longer
bullet (assuming the form factors are already pretty good) is
to go to a larger caliber.  Maybe that's why some hunter class
shooters are using those Speedy Gonzales 110gr match bullets
in their short .308 cases...with S-L-O-W twists (like 1:16).

"It was my understanding there would be no math." - Chevy Chase as
Gerald Ford

Toby Bradshaw
Department of Biochemistry and College of Forest Resources
University of Washington, Seattle
toby@u.washington.edu

"A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of
a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall
not be infringed."  Does this statement make you want to register
books, or ban some of them, or prevent them from being read in public?
From: maxxon@swob.nullnet.fi (Mikko Kurki-Suonio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Colt Sporter safety
Date: 3 Oct 92 20:37:57 GMT
Organization: Sweet Oblivion

I have a standard Colt sporter, which I like very much.

However, the rifle is clearly designed with a right-handed shooter in
mind. I just happen to shoot a rifle left-handed, so all the controls
are not very optimal for me.

I can live with the magazine ejector and quite like the slide stop
position actually, but the safetu lever makes me furious.

I was wondering if it was possible switch the safety lever around
somehow. Or would it be possible to add another lever on the other
side, making the safety ambidextrous? With minimal tooling? Can I drill
a small hole in the safety lever axis for this? The manual is not very
helpful when comes to trigger assembly (I wonder why...)

As I live in Finland and do not hold a major credit card, ordering even
a small part from the USA is going to be rather costly, so I'm propably
not going to do it if that (or the services of a competent (read =
costly) gunsmith) are needed.

I hope I can get this straight, as I like the rifle very much otherwise.


--------
maxxon@swob.nullnet.fi (Mikko Kurki-Suonio)
Sweet Oblivion (+358 0 8092678, V.32bis 8N1) Official SRP Headquarters
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Need advice on semi-auto rifles
Date: 5 Oct 92 12:47:11 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <9210021745.AA00228@spsgate.sps.mot.com> wloka@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com (Markus G. Wloka) writes:
#() Budget ~$1200, for new or almost new rifle.

Whatever you buy, you might want to do it soon: Prices will probably
rise as the presidential election approaches....

#HK-91 308:  Roller system.  I have some concern on the HK's ability to feed
#when slightly dirty.  Is that concern unfounded?  

I think so: A friend owns one, and he isn't too meticulous about cleaning.
He's never had any problems.

                                                      Frank Crary
                                                      CU Boulder
From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AR15 accuracy
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:57:12 GMT
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi

In article <HOLLEN.92Sep23134824@peg.megatek.UUCP> megatek!hollen@uunet.UU.NET (Dion Hollenbeck) writes:
#
#Do those if you with experience of AR15 type rifles in .223 feel that
#a 16" heavy barrel 1 in 9 twist and a scope will enable it to achieve
#1" groups at 100 yards from a rest?  It is assumed that the ammunition
#will be carefully crafted to be optimum for that particular chamber.
#If not, would a longer barrel reach the goal, and how long should it
#be?
#
Highpower shooters regularly shoot scores of 190+ at 600 yards with
the AR. A master class shooter with a custom AR will average about
195. The 10 ring at 600 is about 1 MOA in radius. When you consider
that the wind is blowing the bullet off track, the mirage can make
the target look like it is dancing the cha-cha and you are holding
the rifle (not benchresting), I would say that the AR should be 
capable of shooting a 1" group at 100  yards. However, even though
I shot a 191-4X from  600 at a "Leg" match (no sighters) yesterday,
I have never been able to get the same gun to print a 6" group
from a bench at 100 yards. Go figure!

As for the short barrel, you should ask some metalic silhouette
shooters. I understand they have started counter boring their
barrels so that  they are hollow tubes for all but about 18
inches. This reduces weight  while giving the stabilizing
effect of a longer barrel without sacrificing accuracy. I don't
know too much about that, I'm not a chicken shooter.
-- 

Donald R. Newcomb
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .40 S&W Help Sought
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:40:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: ttinews.1992Oct6.190014.13275
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <19272@smoke.brl.mil> gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes:
}
}In article <1992Oct2.163801.11217@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
}#What I don't like about the glock is the fact that you don't get a
}#second chance on a misfire.
}
}Just as much as with an M1911A1 -- you rack the slide to chamber another
}round.  Certainly, with a revolver one merely goes through the same
}motions for each shot whether or not the previous one actually fired,
}but jam (much more probable than ignition failure) recovery should be a
}standard part of one's semiautomatic pistol training.  Revolvers can also
}fail in mysterious ways, for example when a cartridge is not fully seated
}in the cylinder and prevents the cylinder from rotating..

An improperly seated primer can have the same effect.  One of the tips I
picked up from the LAPD was, immediately after loading a revolver, to pull
the hammer part way back with your strong hand _index finger_ and spin the
cylinder to be sure all is well. (The index finger is used to be
absolutely certain it's _not_ on the trigger).

BTW, how do you practice jam recovery if your gun never jams?  I know most
1911's give their owners lots of practice (-:{, but my SIG hasn't given me
any.

Further BTW, I've only had one misfire in over 1000 rounds.  It was a CCI
Blazer Lead Free and trying it again made no difference.  I eventually
took it apart and found nothing obviously wrong.  Just a bad primer, I
guess.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: watt-alan@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Recommendation for bullet-proof vest wanted.
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:02:31 GMT
Organization: Yale University, Computing & Information Systems


In article <9210012130.AA05024@gtephx.com>, forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes:

|> 
|> Top 18 handguns used by criminals:
|> 
|> The federal BATF traced 56,509 handguns for law enforcement 
|> agencies in 1990-1991.  Here, in descending order, are the 18 
|> handguns (12 semi-autos, 6 revolvers) most frequently traced, 
|> as described by the ATF:

	<lots of posting deleted ...>


I may be wrong, but just because the BATF (A.K.A. "Waffen Staats Polizei")
"traces" a handgun for a law enforcement agency does not mean that firearm
was used in a crime.  It may have been recovered as stolen property, or
several other reasons.  A similar statistic was used to distort the criminal
use of "assault weapons" in California: the Attorney General had *initiated*
forward traces of "assault weapons" and then reported they were used by
criminals in the proportion they appeared in the trace statistics!

Other studies have shown that carreer criminals generally prefer to be
armed with comparable weapons used by police.  Back in the days when
most police had .38 special revolvers, that was the choice of criminals.
Now that police are moving to high capacity 9mm semi-autos, the crooks
want them too.

The obvious conclusion: disarm the police and the crooks will follow :-)
-- 
  Alan S. Watt
  Yale University			Computing and Information Systems
  Box 2112 Yale Station			(203) 432-6602
  New Haven, CT  06520-2112		Watt-Alan@Yale.Edu
From: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Concealed Weapons Permit ( again.... )
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:57:36 GMT
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

There is this company in Beaverton, Oregon, that advertized in Handguns
and Guns and Ammo regarding obtaining CWPs in your state. They asked
you to send SASE to them.

I received their reply 2 months later, after I sent them the SASE. In this 
reply, they asked me to send money to them to obtain booklets and/or tapes
regarding how to apply CWP in my state ( Colorado now... ).

Are there any of you guys who obtained their booklet before? If yes, was it
helpful?

#From my understand, it is impossible for a normal person like me to
obtain a CWP here in Boulder, Colorado. However, do I really want to
have a CWP? It seems to be very safe around here and people seem to
be very friendly too. My job is computer related and no chance to deal with
violent criminals. It is legal here to carry a loaded handgun in your car,
unlike California.  However, I don't even feel the need to do so. So are 
there any reasons for me to try to obtain a CWP? Thanks.

As a side question, if I do put my loaded pistol ( Beretta -- Hey! Defend your
life with style!! :) in my car and get stopped by a cop for traffic violations,
what are the good excuses to tell him/her about why do I have a loaded 
shinning beautiful pistol in my car? Thanks again.

David
-- 
 K. David Lin, Ph.D.            | E-mail: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com
 Science & Technology Division  | Reserved for future use.
 U S WEST Advanced Technologies | Disclaimer: Only personal opinions.
From: holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe))
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Advice Wanted: CC
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:38:58 GMT
Organization: Technical University Vienna, Dept. for Realtime Systems, AUSTRIA

kmarko@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Kurt Marko) writes:

#So, I guess my real decision is whether to go for a snub revolver, or
#try and find a compact SA that is a good compromise between size and
#`strength'.

Although it might be a question of ideology, IMHO a SA gun is tactically
inferior to a DA gun for defense purposes.  In a stress situation, just
pulling the trigger again is more instinctive than a full tap-rack-bang
drill.  Furthermore, you lose a possibly good cartridge in the latter
maneuver (this could be a problem with a small CC gun).

-- 
| Holger Reusch                             |
| Technical University of Vienna, Austria <-+--- No kangaroos here,
| Dept. for Real-Time Systems               |    sorry!
| holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at                 |
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: Ruger .44 Magnum Semi-Auto
Date: 30 Sep 92 13:23:27 GMT

#Does anyone have any information about any .44 magnum rifles especially about
#a semi-auto carbine Ruger made a few years ago?

The Ruger .44 Magnum carbine was Ruger's first rifle, introduced in
1962.  It was originally called the Deerstalker, but a lawsuit from
Ithaca prompted Ruger to change the designation.  It was in production
until 1987, and there are several variations (mostly in stock design).


#Also, if you have one you want to get rid of please let me know.

These rifles are slowly becoming collector's items, so it's best
to pick one up when you find one.  I'm looking for one also...

Rob
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .40 Black Talon Oddities
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:56:51 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <1992Sep25.192329.18561@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
}The try to come up with a worse marketing name than Black Talon contest:
}
}[...]

}It could be worse of course, but I wish they would re-name it 
}"Happy Face", or Winchester Safety Blossoms, or something.

The LAPD recently faced this problem when they (finally) decided to switch
to hollowpoints as their standard carry round.  Their solution:  They
don't use hollowpoints.  They use "controlled expansion rounds." (Funny,
they look just like hollowpoints).  I kid you not.

Now, if we could just get the ammunition manufacturers to label their
products that way ...

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: kunz@avalon.physik.unizh.ch (kunz peter)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: police marksmenship?
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:58:03 GMT
Organization: Informatik Club Uni Zurich

In article <1992Sep23.185802.7448@ttinews.tti.com> hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
#
#IMHO they're good.  Some of them are very, very good.  They routinely
#shot the spots out of playing cards at 50 ft with .38 revolvers, double
#action standing (not their service weapons).  Most had no trouble
#splitting a playing card edgewise with a .22 rifle. (I split one too, but
#it took me five shots to do it and I used a bench rest).
#
#I don't know what standards their recruits have to meet, but their
#instructors are impressive.
#
sounds dangerous, but i don't think your out of the box untuned police
officer is that good.


cu
-pete



-- 
Peter J. Kunz		Home:		(+41) 061 721 75 56 (Weekends)
P.O. Box 315		Business:	(+41) 01  261 35 74 (Weekdays)
4106 Therwil		Fax:		(+41) 061 324 71 88
Switzerland		E-Mail:		pkunz@amiga.physik.unizh.ch
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Info on "walther P88".
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:03:10 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <1992Oct1.052355.13553@latcs1.lat.oz.au> jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis) writes:
}
}	Hi, I know the Walther-P88 is quite expensive but money aside how good 
}is it against its contemporaries (sigP226 etc), it seems to get a mention in 
}various magazines/books as an alternative to poppular high capacity 9mm semi-
}autos, but no real comments are made on its performance. Anyone familiar with
}this weapon?

The P88 was one of the guns I considered before getting my P226.  Two
things steered me away from it.  First, consensus opinion was that it was
not enough better to justify its price. (Some people thought the H&Ks and
SIGs were at least as good -- at half the cost).  Second, some people
thought it was _too_ precisely made.  I.e.:  The action is so closely fit
that it's more sensitive to dirt and contamination than other combat
pistols, hence less reliable.

As everyone here is probably tired of hearing, I'm very happy with my SIG.
Your mileage may vary.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: jimfost@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Jim Foster)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .40 Black Talon Oddities
Date: 28 Sep 92 11:21:05 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University


#The try to come up with a worse marketing name than Black Talon contest:

#Winchester "Arty Bremmer" ammo
#Winchester "You look fine, here's another" ammo
#Winchester "Are you talking to _me_?" ammo

Winchester "Schwazzenegger Special" ammo
Winchester "Are you gonna draw or whistle dixie" ammo
Winchester "Bite on This" ammo
c
#.....
#It could be worse of course, but I wish they would re-name it 
#"Happy Face", or Winchester Safety Blossoms, or something.

"Winchester Safety Blossoms: Real Flower Power! The choice of 9 of 10 hippie 
handgun enthusiasts!"


-- 
Jim Foster                [        The stars are right... Cthulhu in '92!     ]
jimfost@matt.ksu.ksu.edu  [       "Why choose the lesser of three evils?"     ]
Kansas State University   [                                                   ]
From: asdch@acad2.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 12 gague ammo question
Date: 5 Oct 92 02:19:49 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska


	Is it possible to use less than 3 inch shells in a 3-inch chambered 12
gague shotgun without causing damage?
From: cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm: Which *not* to buy?
Date: 2 Oct 92 11:39:13 GMT
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH

As quoted from <9209302156.AA09885@outmail.microsoft.com> by alane@microsoft.com (Alan Ezekiel):

# If you have small hands, stay away from Glocks.

I have relatively small hands and find the Glock 17 and 22 very comfortable.
The Glock 20 and 21 are a bit big, but still MUCH better than the S&W 45 or 10
series guns.


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------  

"Well whose opinions did you THINK these were...?" 
------------------------------------------------------------------  
"It's 11:59pm, do you know where your congressman's checkbook is?"
------------------------------------------------------------------ 
Christopher Morton
{uunet|backbone}!ncoast.org!cmort                      cmort@ncoast.org