HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: robie@umbc4.umbc.edu (Mr. William Robie; POSI (GRAD))
Subject: Re: Place to eat near Maryland or Del
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 23:41:34 GMT

In article <stellabo.722030534@phage.cshl.org> stellabo@phage.cshl.org (Fred Stellabotte in Computer Center - CSHL) writes:
>I am planning a flight south from NY to Maryland or
>Del. .. This Sunday .. Just for lunch ..
>
>Can anyone suggest a Airport with a restrant that has
>good seafood ..??
>
>What about Tangeir Island ..?? has any one been there ..?
>Is anything open this time of the year ..??

Tangier Island has a couple of very good restaurants, but I'm not sure they
are open this time of year -- or even if they are the best choice in any
case.

You might wqant to go to Bay Bridge airport.  It is across the bay from
Annapolis, MD, and right at the foot of -- you guessed it -- the Chesapeake
Bay Bridge.  There are two choices.  One is a restaurant at the marina just
next to the airport (but at the far end of the runway from the FBO).  I have
not eaten there, but hear *very* favorable reports from those who have.

The other is the Kent Manor Inn.  It is about a mile from the airport, but they
have a shuttle.  I **HIGHLY** recommend the Sunday brunch (I was introduced
to it by other rec.aviators). There are a variety of dishes from which to
choose, and a couple are seafood things (usually).  We spent the first night
of our honeymoon there (before heading to Jamaica), so it is a pretty special
place.

I'd like to hear opinions from "Dr. Dan" Masys and Prof. Rogers.  They both
live in that vicinity, so should know all the neat spots.




Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: mpaton@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Michael J Paton)
Subject: Re: The home field accident...
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 21:15:10 GMT
Reply-To: mpaton@tempest.UUCP (Michael J Paton)
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin, Texas

In article <1992Nov20.171828.20532@nlm.nih.gov> masys@nlm.nih.gov (Dr. Daniel R. Masys) writes:
>In article <1992Nov20.154051.27951@b30.ingr.com> medin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com writes:
>...an account of a brand new pilot killing self and friends in an
>   overloaded 172.  
>
>I recall that as a young, newly minted pilot, a key element of personal
>experience I lacked was understanding the difference in aircraft
>performance at or near gross weights.  And naturally so, because all
>of my training was either just an instructor and I, or flying solo.
>Though I knew of the *theoretical* problems of flying a heavily loaded
>plane, I never experienced it and at age 19 I guess I wouldn't have
>believed it either.  After all, aren't airplanes "over-engineered" to
>perform beyond their published limitations??
>
>There is no substitute for experience.  So let me ask how many of the
>net.CFI's make it a practice to put their students in a 4 seater, fill
>the other 3 seats, and get some real experience with that real
>queasy feeling of an airplane struggling to climb at gross weight?
>I bet it would save a life every now and then.
>
And let me also ask the same people about how much experience they give their
students of "legal VFR"? Several of my colleagues have recently got licences,
and have (as is usual) had some lessons cancelled due to weather. In many
cases when this has happened the weather has been 2000 ft and 3-4 miles vis.
Fair enough, the instructor couldn't carry out the planned instruction, but
I feel strongly that at some stage very close to getting a private certificate
(either before or after), pilots should be safely exposed to the minimum
weather that they're rated to fly in. They'll learn both what it's like to
fly under a low ceiling or with 3 miles visibility, or that one ca still
fly in only 6 miles vis quite easily (I know about california VFR, but these
texas neophytes don't). They might even learn that despite 3 hours of hood,
it's different inside a cloud, and there's quite a lot of work besides keeping
the aircraft right side up.

Discussion??

Mike Paton
mpaton@tempest.sps.mot.com
From: dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC))
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Place to eat near Maryland or Del
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:23:29 GMT
Organization: U. S. Naval Academy

In article <stellabo.722030534@phage.cshl.org> stellabo@phage.cshl.org (Fred Stellabotte in Computer Center - CSHL) writes:
>I am planning a flight south from NY to Maryland or
>Del. .. This Sunday .. Just for lunch ..
>
>Can anyone suggest a Airport with a restrant that has
>good seafood ..??

Bay Bridge (W29) right at the eastern edge of the Chesapeake
Bay Bridge (the one at Annapolis). There are two restaurants
within walking distance and they will come and get you
if you call. The first is Hemingway's--good sea food
moderately priced. The second is the Kent Manor Inn. Good
food, moderately to moderately expensive and more elegant.
You might want slightly better cloths on Sunday. Good Sunday
Brunch.

Dave Rogers

Look me up! 410-757-5724
Bonanza 2255A based at Bay Bridge
From: B249888@vmtecqro.qro.itesm.mx (Manuel E. Ayala G.)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: What about ultralights and gliders???
Date: 17 Nov 92 03:57:14 GMT
Organization: Instituto Tecnologico de Monterrey, Campus Queretaro

Hello guys!!!
    I'm very interested in learning to fly ultralights and/or gliders.
Unfortunately, I live in Mexico, and I've a really bad luck. All the
times that I've tried to order things from the US via air mail, I've
been cheated. So, could you pleasetell me where can I buy cheap
gliders/UL's??? Preferably at the south of USA.
 
    Finally, do you know of a discussion list on the subject???
 
Thanx in advance!!!
From: gopal@cirrus.com (Gopal Ramachandran)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Pitts for Competition
Date: 24 Nov 92 03:04:17 GMT
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.

In article <19921123.112707.562@almaden.ibm.com> martinl@torolab6.VNET.IBM.COM writes:
>> S2A,S2B,S2E ...... are not suitable for competition..
>
>Sorry, Gopal, I have to disagree with you on this.

I guess I should qualify my statement. I was thinking about Unlimited
category. For the lower categories, it's a different story. The S2E
would do OK through Intermediate, the S2A could do OK in Advanced, and
the S2B will get through an Unlimited sequence. But these days, the
competition from the super-expensive monoplanes is pretty fierce in
the upper categories and you wont find too many stock factory Pittses
flying Unlimited, or even Advanced, especially 2-holers.

>I can get 2 full vertical rolls from straight and level at 185. How many
>can one get from a FP 200HP S1S?

I used to be able to get 2 vertical rolls out of my 200hp FP S1S as
well, but mine is a home-built, and superior to the factory 180hp FP
S1S. I havent flown any factory stock Pittses except for the S2A so
I'm not sure what they will do. Guido Lepore, a Canadian Unlimited
pilot and member of their National team used to fly a 180hp S1S but
even he has modified his airplane somewhat now. He does pretty well on
a pretty low budget, but the only biplanes that have matched the 3x to
5x more expensive monoplanes have been aircraft like Kermit's Weeks
Solution, or the Pittses that Henry Haigh and Harold Chappell built,
or the Pitts that Sean Tucker flies, or the Pitts look-alike from
Ultimate aircraft in Canada (out of business now) etc

>what sort of stuff did you do accumulating all that time.

Mainly practice and flying to and from contests. Though I first got
checked out in an S2A in '80, and have owned various S1 models since
the end of '82, most of my flying in Pittses was between mid-'83 to
mid-'88, about 100 hrs/year, and only 300 hours of those were in
actual aerobatics. It could take 4 hours each way to fly to a contest,
and then you fly all three programs in a total of 15 minutes. I'm
hoping to have my new Pitts ready by early next year, something which
I've been saying for several years now, but it looks a little more
realistic now.

As for Pitts war stories, I've had my share, probably more than I can
tell on the net. I've had various landing problems, various things go
wrong or break, been disoriented lots of times during akro, been
caught in the dark or in IMC (from forest fire smoke!), or over an
overcast or in weather, but have always had fun. An open cockpit
biplane with no electrical system, no gyros, no radios (except
handheld) can be very demanding even in benigh conditions (like try
refolding a chart in an open-cockpit Pitts with less-than-perfect
rigging).

Gopal



-- 

Gopal Ramachandran <gopal@cirrus.com>
UUCP:  uunet!cirrus.com!gopal
Cirrus Logic Inc, Fremont CA  PH: (510)-226-2138 FAX: (510)-226-2160
From: amm@NeXT.COM (Alan M. Marcum)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: The home field accident...
Date: 23 Nov 92 19:52:17 GMT
Reply-To: amm@NeXT.COM (Alan M. Marcum)

Michael J Paton writes
> In article <1992Nov20.171828.20532@nlm.nih.gov> masys@nlm.nih.gov
> (Dr. Daniel R. Masys) writes:
> >In article <1992Nov20.154051.27951@b30.ingr.com>
> >medin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com writes:
> >...an account of a brand new pilot killing self and friends in an
> >   overloaded 172.  
> >
> >There is no substitute for experience.  So let me ask how many of
> >the net.CFI's make it a practice to [give real experience]...

I'm not a CFI; I've just flown with a few, and, like most of
us, have some opinions and experiences.

I remember vividly checking out in some higher-performance and
higher-capacity planes.  My instructors insisted I get some
experience with the planes fully loaded.  The difference between
a C-206 or a C-210 with two aboard and with six aboard is just
amazing the first time.  I was so used to hauling back on the
yoke like crazy to get a reasonable flare that with aft CG it's
just a good thing I was warned about what to expect...

I've used flights like these as excuses to go to dinner with
my instructor and some friends.  My C-206 checkout included a
dinner flight to Harris Ranch; my CT-210 checkout inclued one
to Lake Tahoe.

I'm also a strong believer in instrument students getting some
time in actual IMC, and shooting a moderately low approach in
IMC (when ready) with an appropriate instructor prior to getting
the rating.  And I also think spin training is a good idea.
(Heck, as long as I'm airing my biases, I might as well get them
all out there....)
--
Alan M. Marcum
NeXT Tech Support
amm@NeXT.COM
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: ahng@ee.ualberta.ca (Allan Hong-Kay Ng)
Subject: Re: Stay on the ground, Reba.
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:45:52 GMT

phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre) writes:

>Warning:  pet peeve ahead.....


Edited 
>I guess it's just that old "airplanes are deadly mentality":  the
>newscasters are calling it a "close call", etc.  I'm sorry, but that
>didn't sound like a "close call" to me.

Maybe I am just a candy ass but landing without nose gear sounds pretty
scary to me.  Like a former instructor used to say "A superior pilot tries,
not to get into a situation where she/he (not gender sensitivity) might 
have to display her/his (again) superior skill."  Paraphrased don't ask
for it.
					
					I am woss.
					A. Ng
From: dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC))
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: Talk about an unusual "field"!
Date: 19 Nov 92 20:22:37 GMT
Organization: U. S. Naval Academy

In article <ritter.722187870@claude> ritter@claude.ma30.bull.com (Roger Ritter) writes:
!rkaplan@netcom.com (Richard Kaplan) writes:
!
!!An interesting aviation event is scheduled for February 6, 1993....
!!The Cedar Lake, Wisconsin "fly ON."  This is a fly-in event where
!!the "field" is 3000 feet of ice on a plowed lake.
!
!They do this up here in New Hampshire, also.  On the southern end
!of Lake Winnepesaukee, in Alton Bay, someone plows out a runway during
!the winter (once the ice is solid enough), and hosts a fly-in (usually
!during February).  Last year I didn't feel confident enough (in either
!the ice or my ability to land well) to try it; this year, though, I
!might.  As I believe Richard asked, has anyone else actually done this?
!How difficult is it to land on the ice?

Well I've never landed and airplane on ice but I learned to
drive on a frozen lake in a WWII jeep! Much depends on
the condition of the ice. Ice is not necessarily very slippery.
For example, if the ice has quite a bit of air in it (like rime ice
on the wings) or has been plowed not quite down to the `bare' ice
it might have quite a bit of snow on it hence you might end
up with a soft field landing and take-off. If the ice has
melted and refrozen perhaps when it was windy or had a bit of
surface melt on it and refrozen while it was snowing then it
could be quite unslippery. So it depends on the condition of
the ice.

Dave Rogers
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: braner@trantor.emba.uvm.edu (Moshe Braner)
Subject: Re: Talk about an unusual "field"!
Summary: isn't that bad
Organization: University of Vermont, EMBA Computer Facility
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:15:07 GMT

I have not landed on a frozen lake thus far, but I have landed many times
on a paved runway that is covered by rather slick ice or packed snow.
It is really no big deal if there isn't too much crosswind.  The lake
can have several advantages over a slick runway:

*	Presumably rather cold (WAY below freezing).  Ice becomes less
	slippery as the temperature goes down.  A far cry from the WET
	ice I used to encounter at the Ithaca, NY airport (fun!)
	This is helpful in keeping the rollout reasonably short.

*	If they plow the right portion of the lake, it will be possible
	to land directly into the wind.

*	If they plow a "strip" wide enough, there is less chance of hitting
	something by losing precise directional control.

*	If you don't hit anything non-slick, you can't ground-loop,
	even a 180 (or more) degree swerve will leave you right-side-up.

- Moshe

(But I still prefer summer)
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Moshe Braner                          braner@emily.emba.uvm.edu
47 McGee Road, Essex, VT 05452        (802) 879-0876                        
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ritter@claude.ma30.bull.com (Roger Ritter)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: Talk about an unusual "field"!
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:44:30 GMT
Organization: Bull HN Informations Systems Inc.

rkaplan@netcom.com (Richard Kaplan) writes:

>An interesting aviation event is scheduled for February 6, 1993....
>The Cedar Lake, Wisconsin "fly ON."  This is a fly-in event where
>the "field" is 3000 feet of ice on a plowed lake.

They do this up here in New Hampshire, also.  On the southern end
of Lake Winnepesaukee, in Alton Bay, someone plows out a runway during
the winter (once the ice is solid enough), and hosts a fly-in (usually
during February).  Last year I didn't feel confident enough (in either
the ice or my ability to land well) to try it; this year, though, I
might.  As I believe Richard asked, has anyone else actually done this?
How difficult is it to land on the ice?
-- 
Roger Ritter N1FZZ (R.Ritter@ma30.bull.com) PP-ASEL, AGI
1946 Luscombe 8A N71983 "Rocky"
Sheep do not so much fly as plummet!        NH CAP: Profile 49
From: hdnea@usho92.hou281.chevron.com (David Neal)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: Please help me...
Date: 17 Nov 92 15:33:09 GMT
Organization: Chevron

In article <1e9btsINNs9g@topaz.bds.com> ron@topaz.bds.com (Ron Natalie) writes:
>If you can get a copy of AOPA's Airports USA book, they're all there.
>
>If you don't have a copy ($24.95 or free if you join AOPA), then let me
>know which particular ones you want (it's quite a list).
>
>-Ron

I've been very happy with Half Price Books for finding back issues of
things. In fact, I bought a '92 Jepps Aim/Far that still had the 
midyear update card in the back for $6.00. Not bad. Sent in the card too.


-- 
David Neal -- hdnea@hou281.chevron.com 

My processes aren't dead! They're only resource impaired!
Computationally challenged!
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: twomblyk@next03cville.wam.umd.edu (Heres Waldo)
Subject: Re: Please help me...
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 04:49:14 GMT

In article <1e9btsINNs9g@topaz.bds.com> ron@topaz.bds.com (Ron Natalie)  
writes:
> If you can get a copy of AOPA's Airports USA book, they're all there.
> 
> If you don't have a copy ($24.95 or free if you join AOPA), then let me
> know which particular ones you want (it's quite a list).
> 
> -Ron

Well, I know that this is semi-off subject, but as a first hand witness, I  
know that the AOPA staff spends countless hours in the office gathering  
information about airports just for that book...And if you're interested  
in joining AOPA, Scotty, I think that you would find that AOPA has a lot  
to offer someone in your postion.  Try calling their new 800 number, which  
is 1 800 USA AOPA.  Anyone there will be glad to help you...And if you  
have a more difficult question for AOPA, ask me, I have an inside  
line...*hee hee*

Kristian Mark Twombly
twomblyk@wam.umd.edu

Go 'Miss America' Reno 93!
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:37:59 -0500 
From: Jeffrey Dunkle <jd5f+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Fun Location/Added Ratings

THIS IS NOT AN ADVERTISEMENT
It IS a report of a fun place to fly to.

A group of us are thinking about buying a taildragger for fun... I have
35 hours of Cub/Champ time.....one other in the group is a US Air
captain with oodles of Pitts time.  To help other people in the "clan"
get exposure to little tail wheel planes so they could "try before we
buy"...I groused around for somewhere to fly in something other than a
Citabria.  I found a place...and you northeasterners might want to check
it out come spring.

The place: Sunbury PA, the person Shane Hayhurst.  Sunbury is a 3000
foot, very wide grass strip on an island in the Susquehanna River about
50 nm or so north of Harrisburg.  Shane inherited part of this airport
from his grandfather ( his uncle also has an operation there) and spends
most of his time in the summer giving $495 Cub/sea plane package
ratings.  There are camp sites on the island for those wanting to crash
there for a few days and in the spring and fall when the river water
isn't right for the little Cub...he puts it on wheels and will do tail
wheel check-outs/rentals to those qualified in the Cub.  He also owns a
Stearman which he'll do some instructing in should you wish.

He also has a medium performance two place sailplane which is used in
the summer by anyone qualified or who want some glider instruction.

The island has a village on it, a state park with rental boats, jet
skis, etc. but nothing like a formal resort or anything....just a grass
strip........and loads of nostalgia in the '90s.  I went there and got
time this weekend in the Cub  with one of my no tail time buddys and we
had a blast.

Here's the kicker.  Shane's just a kid, all of 25 or so, been flying
forever, has 4,500 hours, an ATP, CFII/land and sea, and a Citation type
rating thrown in.  And he teaches people to fly in Cubs because its what
he loves to do.  He used to fly the Citation for a local company week
days, and his sea plane business only on weekends...but got tired of the
"beeper leash" and is just doing his Cub/Stearman/sailplane thing for
now.  

For you netters in the southeast...he moves to South Carolina for the
winter and does his Cub/sea plane rating thing on some lake down there
till spring...he also takes his Stearman south too.  

I don't remember which issue, but Shane was the featured pilot on the
last page of AOPA Pilot a year or so ago which is where I first heard
about him.  Like I said, I'm not selling a darned thing....it was just
such a treat to go through the time warp with this kid that I had to
pass this along...hope you netters don't mind.

Jeff Dunkle

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: rkaplan@netcom.com (Richard Kaplan)
Subject: Talk about an unusual "field"!
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 04:17:49 GMT

An interesting aviation event is scheduled for February 6, 1993....
The Cedar Lake, Wisconsin "fly ON."  This is a fly-in event where
the "field" is 3000 feet of ice on a plowed lake.

A fellow netter has invited me to join him in this event.
My club will not allow landings on "unofficial" airports
(and I think this qualifies as such).  I am thinking
of joining him in his airplane, but I wonder what the
collective net.experience says about this type of aircraft
operation.

My intuitive feeling is that the landing roll for a C-172
on ice is unknown and therefore this type of operation
should not be attempted without extensive prior experience
or an extremely long and wide "field" (neither of which will be 
present in this case).  The minimal friction on landing
could present problems regarding both length of the
landing roll and directional control.

Our fellow pilot feels that even though he hasn't done
this before, he is capable of doing so since (1) "rotational
friction" will be sufficient to stop the aircraft (2) he is
proficient at short field technique (3) directional control
will not be necessary if the approach velocity vector is
aligned with the landing surface.

I'm skeptical.  Comments?

Is anyone else interested in an "UMWAFI Freeze Your Buns
Off Fly-On"?
-- 
Richard Kaplan M.D.           Medical Software Exchange BBS
806 2nd St. SW # 104          (507) 281-1989 14,400 HST
Rochester, MN  55902          (507) 281-1689 Voice
PP-ASEL-IA     N4VRB          rkaplan@mayo.edu|netcom.netcom.com  
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: huoviala@hkkk.fi (Matti Huoviala)
Subject: Lake Lehi Airport
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 11:17:03 GMT
Organization: Helsinki School of Economics, Finland

Up here in Finland, we have had every winter for several years, a
strip on a frozen lake Lehi. People who fly out from it, use the strip
for basic training during winter and have no problems because of ice.
When the ice is thick enough to suppurt the equipement needed to
plough snow out of runway, it will support c150 or even twins.
Friction on landing is always one thing to remenber when flying in
ice/snow covered runways. As long as you are aware of reduced braking
action, and remember to apply brakes lightly, it is really no problem.
If you have crosswind, it may be more difficult, and sometimes it is
not a good idea to use slippery runway. To my knowledge, asymmetrical
braking action has caused some noseovers, but those could have been
avoided by being gentle on the brakes, also xwinds have been accused
for a couple of them. All these during *a long period* of time.
So, if you think ahead how to do it, flying in icerunways is no big
deal. Runway markings do have signicance however, it is more difficult
to see altitude or direction when everything is white.
It is always a good idea to have someone to give you a checkout for
something you have not done before.
Northern Sweden is also known for soaring camp in early spring. They
use also runway on a frozen lake, and tow out of it, even with
tailwheel aircraft.

Masa