From: ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu)
Subject: Re: What is Asian ?
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 06:05:21 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.135700.2034@ucbeh.san.uc.edu> vallamn@ucbeh.san.uc.edu writes:
>
>
>Hi !  I am an Indian student who occasionally reads s.c.a.a.  What
>I do not understand is this :  Why do the netters relate the word
>'Asian' with only those ethnic groups of far-eastern nationality ?

Because in the US (which dominates this group), the Asian-American
population is overwhelmingly of East Asian or Southeast Asian,
rather than South Asian, ancestry, and many people carelessly forget
about South Asians.

>
>Are not Arabs, Iranians, Indians etc. Asians ?

Yes, as are Siberians, too.  In the US, "Asian" usually means
East or Southeast Asian in casual conversation, although politically
South Asians are generally included (for things like admissions
data, political activism, etc.).  Middle Easterners usually aren't
included, which is ironic given that the "Orient" used to mean the
Near and Middle East.
						This may be one
>of the reasons why non-oriental(forgive me for being politically
>incorrect) people of Asian origin do not post in this newsgroup.

It's unfortunate.  In some ways, the issues faced by South Asian Americans
are somewhat different:  the immigrants are usually native (or long time)
English speakers, people aren't assumed to be evil-unfair-Japanese-who-are-
taking-over-and-destroying-the-American-way, etc.  On the other hand,
we face many similar issues:  adapting to a new country for the first
generation, the conflict between an ancient and mighty cultural heritage
and the reality of growing up an American in America for the second
generation, and the assumption of foreigness, of not really belonging in
the US burdening us all.

>The association of the word 'asian' with 'oriental' is of American
>( read white ) origin, and that does not mean you ( and me ) should
>accept it as what it is, namely a misnomer.  I am not criticizing 
>here, just suggesting.  So don't flame without explanations please.

This is incorrect.  The usage of "Asian" instead of "Oriental"
in the US to denote those of East and Southeast Asian (and eventually
South Asian as well) ancestry took root during social changes of the
late 60s and early 70s among politically-active Asian Americans.
I've enclosed my standard FAQ on that.

>
>
>Nalini Mohan Vallampati
>University of Cincinnati
>Cincinnati, OH 45221
>
>

It really seems that many South Asian Americans feel excluded from this
group, as well as from many "Asian-American" organizations in general,
and the issue seems much more fundamental than just the semantics of
"Asian" or "Caucasian" or whatever, although that's the form in which
this complaint is usually raised.  The situation seems especially
unfortunate for many 1.5 and 2nd generation South Asian Americans, who
grow up with the dual rejection by both white America for being foreign
as well as by their parents generation for being "too Americanized"
(the same situation many other Asian Americans face).  They turn to the
Asian-American community, only to find a clique of Chinese, Japanese,
and Korean Americans, busily planning a Lunar New Year celebration,
that excludes them yet again.  It's a pity, as broadening the community
could generate many new ideas, insights, and understandings.

Ultimately, the notion of race appears at fault.  The popular notion
of race is an archaic social construction that's scientifically utterly
bankrupt.  Unfortunately, people seem rather attached to the idea, so
we have continuing disputes over "What is Asian?", "What is hispanic?", or
"What box should I check on the ethnicity form if my dad is of Chinese
ancestry, but was born and raised in Brazil, and my mom is the Chicana
daughter of a family that was well-established in California long before
the Pilgrims were even born?"
						--Alan Hu
"Oriental" FAQ follows
----------
I am not Arthur Hu.  I am NOT Arthur Hu.  I AM NOT ARTHUR HU.

I am not a neo-conservative writer for AsianWeek.  I did not go
to MIT.  I do not conduct phone surveys.  I am not married.
I do not believe in Dan Quayle's family values.

Arthur Hu is a fine person.  So am I.  We are not, however, the same person.


----------

Here's my on-demand FAQ for the o-word debate:

In article <...> ...@leland.Stanford.EDU (...) writes:
>
>Please excuse my ignorance, but why is the term "Oriental" drogatory?  It's
>embarrassing when people ask me why it's not PC and I don't know the answer
>myself! 
>
>...
>
>

There's no need to be embarrassed; the vagaries of these kinds of terms
can be confusing.

OK, so a long time ago, people in Europe used to refer to everything to
the east of them as the Orient, including for example the Middle East,
since orient means "east".  So far, so good.  This mysterious area
was the source of all sorts of wonderful things like silk and spices,
so the Europeans attached also sorts of exotic, mysterious connotations
to the Orient.  As Europeans gained a better concept of world geography,
they eventually used "the Orient" and "Oriental" to refer to East and
Southeast Asia, where people look "Oriental" in our current usage.

Anyway, that usage of "Oriental" has survived a long time, and it still
frequently carries all of the exotic/foreign/inscrutable/mysterious
connotations.  These connotations happen to coincide with many of the
stereotypes held of Asian Americans.  Furthermore, by definition, the word
"Oriental" is Eurocentric, referring to things east of Europe.  For these
reasons, some Asian American activist types decided that "Oriental" was
a Bad Word, and that "Asian" was more accurate, less Eurocentric, and
less loaded with strange connotations.  No big deal, right?

Well, a lot of people didn't want to change their language usage.
Some people grew up using "Oriental" and saw nothing wrong with the
word.  Others came from other parts of the world, where hip-activist-
American-English-languistic-evolution hadn't hit.  Still others never
encountered anyone aware of Asian American politics, so had never heard
of this word usage change.  Some people were exploiting the exotic mysticism
connotations and resisted change.  (Very early on, you would see articles
about business and trade in Asia, whereas the travel articles would talk
about visiting the Exotic Mysterious Orient.)  Finally, some people were
convinced that this was a typical case of left-wing-politically-correct-
thought-police-mind-control (which it was) and decided in typical
right-wing-politically-correct-knee-jerk-response that the word usage
change was intrinsically evil and had to be resisted at all costs.

For a while, therefore, you could identify a person as being an
American who was aware of and sympathetic to Asian American politics
by his/her word choice.  Now, however, many exploitation-types have
realized that saying "Asian" instead of "Oriental" is the cool thing
to do, without changing any of their stereotypes and misconceptions.
(You can force a person to change his/her behavior, but you can't
for force a change in thought.)

The upshot is to use whatever word you feel most comfortable with, or
that makes your listeners most comfortable, but don't be surprised if
someone takes offense.  And in the time you save by not not worrying
about word-usage, try to make the world a better place.
						--Alan J. Hu


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.bangladesh