From: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad)
Subject: Re: Words Feminists find Demeaning!
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 05:05:08 GMT

Joachim Martillo (martillo@stars.clearpoint.com) wrote:

: Islam and Abrahamic religion in general are merely social mechanisms
: which the human race have outgrown.  And as a consequence, applying
Can you outgrow the truth? CAn you deny the existence of God? Can you deny
the properties of electron with passing time?
	religion is just that belief in God? The practitioners can outgrow
the interpretation of that belief but not the belief itself. Look at how
Christianity has evolved.

: them to today's world and society practically guarantees abuse and
: disaster.  Abrahamic religion provides a mechanism for dealing
: arbitrary abuse of power on the part of the ruling elite, and also
: provides a fault tolerance mechanism for reconstructing society after
: major disasters like plagues or invasions.

: But in fact the civilized West developed better mechanisms for dealing
Don't you agree that the West uses Christianity as a basis for those 
mechanisms. Is there in any of the religion where the mechanisms are
disallowed by religion.
: with such issues like concepts of social contract and natural rights
: as well as modern science.
It is only in cases which are clearly against the word of God: the preservation
of human life, that the conflict occurs, cases like:

uncontrolled sex, abortion



: 1945 are just the concrete expression of the ideological battle
: between modernity and pre-modern traditional culture.

: Now we have reached the point where the centers of modernity are
: Western Europe, N. America, Japan and perhaps Korea, Taiwan and
: Singapore and the surrounding countryside consists of the backward and
Don't you agree that they were formerly non-modern?
Singapore, Japan still stick to their cultural roots.

: benighted regions of the 3rd world and China.
But things can change but what is that change?
Is it the removal or religion like marxism which is proven to be a total
failure?

: At this point there probably is no pressing economic need to
: coordinate these regions into civilized modernity, but weapons of mass
: destruction are much more powerful today and more easily obtainable
: than they were in the 17th century, and the combination of civilized
: modernity confronting mindsets of howling third world savagery is
: simply too explosive.
It is strange that the former barbarians were given control of the weapons of
mass destruction, and they have proven to be barbaric indeed, just look at
the mafia, bosnian serbs and the nazis. These people just do not change.

: The only way to deal with such diversity of mindset and attitude is to
: obliterate it.  Obliteration of such diversity means either we
: civilized people in the West renounce our wealth, power and technology
: and become howling third world savages or we make the howling third
: world savages civilized Westerners in attitude and mindset.  There can
: only be one choice.
You should refer to the Social science study on the virtues of co-operation:
exemplified by the Prisoners Dilemma etc.

: As for my specific attitude to Islam, I come from a family which has
: produced many fine `ulama over the past several centuries.  As a
: consequence the question of Islam touches me nearer and I am more
: familiar with the backwardness and barbarism of Islam than of Hinduism
: or Chinese culture.  But in truth, my research indicates that Islam,
: Judaism and Christianity are all equally garbage and that no
: traditional culture anywhere in the world has any redeeming value.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Including the traditional western culture, which will be traditional in 100
years time. Haven't you forgotten about the hippies culture?


: Joachim Carlo Santos Martillo Ajami

: From Leszek Kolakowski, Main Currents of Marxism, 1. The Founders p. 1.
: The analysis is directly applicable to Islam if we replace Marxism
: with Islam and Marx with Muhammad.  I consider fundamentalists more or
: less equivalent to revisionistic Marxists.  Islamic fundamentalism has
: few points of contact with traditional Islam and is in fact a profound
: reinterpretation of Islam.

I thought it is the western culture that is closes to Marxism.

Islam believe in God but marxism doesn't and so is western culture(?).
Islam is not idealist but marxism is and so is western culture,
	imagine releasing murderers on the street to kill again.