HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: which witch
Summary: movie time again!
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:14:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: cis.1992Aug19.211429.26947
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: out in linguistics, etc.

subverting threads again (but i *did* change the subject line)...

could we have some discussion of _bell, book, and candle_ and _i
married a witch_ (kim novak and veronica lake, respectively)?  i
haven't seen _bbc_ for a great many years, but remember it with
fondness; and i had a late-adolescent crush on kim novak because of
it.  (ah, yes, it has jack lemmon, ernie kovacs, and *hermione
gingold* - hermione is a topic all in herself - doing characteristic
things.)  _imw_ was made 15 or 16 years before _bbc_, but i have
it on tape and have watched it many times.  marvelous stuff.

comparisons, someone?  arne?

meanwhile, rather than ruin our good humors and blood pressures
by watching the fundamentalist homophobe anti-abortion rally in
houston, jacques and i have been watching movies.  last night,
_something for everyone_, which j had never seen before but i
have watched five or six times.  look, it has the shirtless
michael york enthusiastically kissing another man (getting in
shape for _cabaret_), and that gets *my* attention any day.
yum, yum.

an odd movie, though.  the direction (by hal prince, his first time on
a movie set rather than a stage) is just awful in parts; sections drag
along laconically, and prince has angela lansbury, who otherwise camps
stunningly through the role of the countess ornstein, talking in
something that is supposed to be a german accent and that seriously
distracts you (well, *me*) from those remarkable dresses and her
remarkable attitude.  konrad's (michael york's) various wicked means
for eliminating obstacles that stand in the way of his getting the
castle ornstein and a lifetime with the hunky helmut are mostly
managed with a light comic hand - except, alas, for the crucial and
climactic one, where only the most detached will fail to share the
victim's anguish.  jacques cried out in dismay at this point.
the genuinely funny denouement doesn't suck the pain out of what
happened just before.

arnold (who loves the scenes of konrad and helmut cruising one another
         so outrageously)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: hsu@sp24.csrd.uiuc.edu (William Tsun-Yuk Hsu)
Subject: Re: redefining masculinity
Organization: UIUC Center for Supercomputing Research and Development
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 19:46:08 GMT

Me:
>: Being a radio fag...

mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton) writes:
>So, tell us how we can hear you!  

Unfortunately, a 10,000W station (WEFT Champaign, 90.1FM) in the wilds of 
Central Illinois doesn't reach very far. However, I'm sure there are
plenty of radio fags in most civilized parts of the world.

Bill

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: wearing symbols
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
	<1992Aug16.153253.2613@spdcc.com> <1992Aug16.193801.4950@reed.edu>
	<1992Aug18.025344.28860@plts.uucp>
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 16:05:11 GMT

On 18 Aug 92 02:53:44 GMT, tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli) said:

Tom> In <1992Aug16.193801.4950@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>Yeah, but the only people who get International Male are queer. So if
>they're being co-opted, at least it stays in the family.

Tom> Wow.  When I came out I suddenly IM started appearing in my
Tom> mail box.  Now I know why!

There's something seriously wrong with the algorithm, though, because
_I_ recently got IM.  I will say that there are some very nice buns in
there, but I'm unlikely to buy anything that they're actually selling.

I think that I got on the list by subscribing to Muscle and Fitness,
which I get for our gym here at work.

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous
--
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Introduction
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 16:44:48 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <64292@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) 
writes:
>adolphson squeals:
>>Someone with the preposterous name of "Lovegod" bounds onto
>>[blather, blather, blather]
>>What the fuck do you think you're talking about? 
>
>The fact that you've been behaving like a vicious queen of the
>worst kind for no apparent reason, to someone who hardly even
>begins to merit it.

The reason was apparent to me (although I wouldn't respond the way Arne did).
Perhaps you're just missing something.  

And he certainly begins to merit it.  I wonder if you read either Arne's
postings or "Lovegod"'s postings carefully. 

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
From: wendyt@cs.washington.edu (Wendy Thrash)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: net queen??
Keywords: brutal passion
Date: 20 Aug 92 09:05:31 GMT
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Aug20.022648.21099@tc.cornell.edu> shore@tc.cornell.edu writes:
>Indeed.  I'm delighted to see Wendy back among us;  I hope
>that this means that she's finally emerging (victorious) on
>the other side of the academic experience and can now be
>counted among the more-or-less living.

Not exactly.  More like sinking back in; I return to school in late September.
I withdrew from motss because 1) the Cupcake was getting most of my attention,
I missed Clay,  and 2) I was reading news at 2400 baud.  I'm returning
because 1) returning to school means back to 9600 baud, 2) I miss everyone
else, and 3) the Cupcake is out of town for six months.

>I remember a time when Wendy was indisputably net.motss Head Lesbian;

Really?  Your memory must be better than mine.  After all, mail.sow never
quite got off the ground.  [Mail.sow, for sisters-of-wendy, was a mailing
list I proposed a few years ago in response to a disagreement on mail.sappho.]
I would have said Ellen (though maybe she was Head Bi), Dana, Doretta, . . .
take this yoke, oh Melinda!

Interestingly enough, the Cupcake absolutely despised my postings from those
days.  Too nasty.  That's OK, I've mellowed now (except for a little BS
now and then).

>let's see if she can get the title back without
>grabbing the nearest mare by the withers with her teeth and 
>throwing her to the ground. 

And what's wrong with that?  Heck, how do you think I get dates, anyway?
(Or would get dates, if I were still doing that sort of thing.)  I may be
old, but I've still got my teeth . . . well, at least the front ones, which
are all you really need to grab those withers.  (And when you can't, you . . .
wither away, of course.)

As for the title, maybe it can be resolved the way the Cupcake and I handle
such things -- we both get to be age group winners.
---
-Wendy T., saluting all the Great Motss Dykes out there
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tom@flood.com (Tom Chatt)
Subject: Re: GRANDPA WALTON: Is he gay?  Help please....
Organization: The Flood Group, Inc.  Torrance, Ca.
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 04:51:22 GMT

dgwelton@ecst.csuchico.edu (David G. Welton) writes:
| 
| In a speech a few days ago Bush said:
|  
| [He'd like] "to make American families a lot more like the Walton's
|  and less like the Simpson's."
|  
| Well I seem to recall that the actor Will Geer, who played Grandpa
| Zeb Walton, has come out and proclaimed he is gay. Is this fact
| or urban legend?
|  
| I'm writing an article about the Convention and would love to
| be able to add this little tidbit...if I can substantiate it.
|  
| Can you help?

Don't know about Geer, but another little amusing tidbit from the
convention: On "Family Values Wednesday", when Barbara and the kids
called George up to join them on the podium, the music being played
was "The Best of Times"(?) from _La Cage aux Folles_!

-- 
Tom Chatt                        \   Don't take offense, take action.
Internet: tom@flood.com           \    Speak up. When we remain silent,
UUCP: ...!uunet!flood!tom        / \     we oppress ourselves.
From: hughes@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Date: 23 Aug 92 01:31:24 GMT
Organization: Botany Department - U of Georgia, Athens

In article <1992Aug23.005403.29395@cis.ohio-state.edu> amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) writes of the fabulous nelliphobe: 
>
>glad as i am to have read this stuff, it seems odd to me that so much
>effort is directed against something so impervious.  i suspect, in

     I know I responded not because it seemed like it was possible
     to be constructive, but because the twit walked into a room
     full of thousands of different faces, and pronounced his own
     to be the only one worth looking at.  

     I think people are shifting in and then out as they realize that
     he has only one thing to say and is not interested in alternative
     or even additional thoughts.  He's a boor and a bore, and is
     a lousy editor.

     And arnold, you don't *want* a gay card; it's just one more thing
     people can take away from you.


     Wayne
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)
Subject: Re: Morrison & Foerster: any comments?
Organization: Pacific * Bell
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 00:52:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.181826.20072@leland.Stanford.EDU> wjw@leland.Stanford.EDU (Wilhelmus Johannes Wytenburg) writes:
>
>A general question to all the motssies out there:
>Does anyone have any info about or experience with
>the EOE/non-descrimination policy of the law firm
>Morrison & Foerster?  Any comments about good, bad,
>or indifferent experiences are welcomed.

My wife works for them and she has often commented on
how gay-positive they seem to be.  Some of the partners
are gay as are many of the other employees and quite
'out' about it.  They do a lot of socially conscious
pro bono work and provide free counseling for all employees.
They have also been very supportive of HIV infected
employees and in at least one case were extremely flexible
in allowing one lawyer with AIDS to work on and off as his
condition permitted.  I can't really comment on their
official EOE/non-descrimination policy, but I suppose I
could ask my wife to look into it.  Was there anything specific
you wanted to know?

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee Fogel/\/\/\/\/\eVerything/\Is/\possiBlE/\/\/\/\/\lxfogel@srv.pacbell.com
____________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: wearing symbols
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 18:49:31 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

amz@cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky):
> shucks, they don't understand the symbols you flash at them and
> then come all unglued at minor bits of jewelry.  how *are* we
> going to get them educated?

kill them and start over.  hell, it worked for God.
-- 
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
Queer Without A Cause!
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: wendyt@cs.washington.edu (Wendy Thrash)
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Keywords:  auto-followup
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 22:56:25 GMT

Kathy wrote:
>>We can make up whatever rules we want. Butches make the rules, femmes have to
>>follow them!

and I replied:
>Not in any universe I've ever inhabited.

To clarify:
1) Not one of the beautiful, soft, femmy femmes I've had the pleasure to
   be involved with has ever done one damned thing I told her to, asked her
   to, or begged her to, unless she was planning to do it anyway.  Especially
   not the Southern ones!
2) Not one of the big, strong, butchy butches I've had the pleasure to be
   involved with has ever made me do one damned thing I didn't really
   want to.  Last time one tried, I almost had to break her wrist.  Poor
   baby never did get her ego back.  She sure was a cute thang, though!

About sarcasm-impairment:  Don't worry about me; I've been cleared
by the DOD for high-level sarcasm.  If in doubt, check my Smurf code.
---
-Wendy T., Clarity Queen

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: Jay and Arsenio on gay issues
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 17:37:44 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport):
> What's the big deal? I mean, would you have preferred that he devote the
> rest of the interview to Sir Ian being queer?

it's no big deal, roy -- we're just cramming our orientation down
het throats again.  you know!  we have a tendency to do that because
if ian had children jay would have asked about the children, and
we would have listened to a 10 minute, prepared monologue about
the joys of breeding.  if ian had a wife, we would have heard little
anecdotes about what happens when ian doesn't do as he supposed to
do, and wifey, the real man of the house, would have done something
extreme.  knudge, knudge!

but, ian's a faggot, a sodomite.  he has no children because
everyone knows that faggots can't breed.  he has no wife because
we know that faggots are promiscuous and can't enter into longterm
relationships.  ian's a faggot so he doesn't have any affirming
stories to tell middle-class america, struggling with the repression.
instead, ian's a faggot, struggling against the entire world just
for his very existance.

> *shrug*

yes, it's really no bid deal tho, roy, because ian, as a faggot,
is no big deal.

jake, who's feeling a little dirty today...
-- 
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
Queer Without A Cause!
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
From: tdbear@tandon.com (Tom Barrett)
Subject: Re: Just please shoot me : )
Organization: Tandon Corporation, Moorpark, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:42:39 GMT

In article <65978@hydra.gatech.EDU> mb33@prism.gatech.edu (Martin H. Brooks) writes:
>
>Personally, I feel that people have a lot of control over whether or not
>they will like living in a new place.  It has a lot to do with attitude.
>Of course, even the best of attitudes don't come with a guarantee.

Well... attitude can only go so far.  When I first accepted a
position in the computer biz, I was happy to get away from
school and start making mucho bucks... that lasted a good
2years.  Then it began to dawn on me that I hadn't picked the
right place to live.  4years and a couple of relationships
later it wasn't getting any better, so I decided to look
around.  That's when I made up my mind to move someplace with
a good g/l support population.  I didn't make it to SanFran,
but I did make it to Calif... hated it (too smoggy and crime
infested... not to mention the traffic).  Now the economy is
giving me the creeps and it's time to move on.  

I think that it is a learning experience in figuring out what
the best environment is in which to live and work.  I know now
that I want to get back with a company that has a
non-descrimination policy and was open about it (Zenith and
Zenith Data Systems had a closeted policy, as did Unisys when
I interviewed with them a couple of years ago in NJ), it would
be nice for the State to have a g/l rights law (but that can
be worked on), I need green grass, clean air, and nice
streets/trails on which to walk, and I want some sort of g/l
unity (doesn't have to be a formal community with facilities
and boards of directors... that can come later)... 

These are all things that they should really teach in college
during the last year along with dealing with problem bosses
and dysfunctional companies... there are probably a lots of
seniors and grad students that were like me... being blinded
by the $$$ and ignored their our needs beyond that.

-- 
Tom Barrett (TDBear)    tdbear@tandon.com                 voice 805-378-6207
Tandon Corporation      tdbear@p6.f1006.n102.z1.fidonet.org fax 805-529-8895
Sr. HW Design Engineer  "War is Peace, No is Yes, And We're All Free!" 
[The views expressed herein may not be shared by the organization of origin]
From: markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: OR:9 Supporter Sighting
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:28:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.41663
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR

In article <1992Aug19.163914.12705@lclark.edu> klotz@lclark.edu (Gretchen Klotz) writes:
>                             Sigh.  Just had to share my downer with
>people who can cheer me up...  Encouragement and epithet suggestions (or
>instant enlightenment phrases) welcome.

If I pass someone who is obviously 'one of them', I usually say something
like "mornin' bigot".  For this particular person, I probably would
have shouted "Hey!  You left off the swastika!".

Which reminds me.  I remember last year hearing a ripoff of a
CW song that went "Momma, don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys"
where the words were changed to "Momma, don't let your babies grow up
to be bigots".  If someone has the words to this, please send them
my way, I may be able to get a radio station or two to record it
and play it on the air when that are slamming the OCA (it's starting
to happen more and more).

--mark
--
Mark Morrissey           One Hatred to rule them all.  One Hatred to find them.
markm@cse.ogi.edu        One Hatred to bring them all and in the darkness bind
                         them.  In the land of Bigotry where the Shadows lie.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly)
Subject: Oscar Wilde and Green Carnations
Date: 13 Aug 92 03:45:37 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
	<1992Aug5.213230.5207@amhux2.amherst.edu>

twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
) georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly) writes:
) >Speaking of which, I wonder how many of those who wear
) >green carnations on St. Patrick's Day would be appalled
) >to know that green carnations were quite the in thing
) >in Oscar Wilde's circle.
)
) Well, I would be.  Green carnations?  How tacky.  Sounds like some
) heterosexual invention to me.

I had to get another copy of Richard Ellman's excellent
biography (its predecessor having being lost when I moved
to Seattle) to back me up.

	The theatre was fully booked for the first performance
	[of _Lady_Windermere's_Fan_], on 20 February 1892.  ...
	[Wilde] sent one [ticket] to the young artist Graham
	Robertson and asked him to participate in a little
	subplot.  Robertson was to buy a green carnation at
	Goodyear's in the Royal Arcade---'They grow them
	there,' said Wilde---and to wear it at the performance.
	Other friends, such as Robert Ross, were to be similarly
	adorned, and so was Ben Webster, who played Cecil Graham....
	'And what does it mean?' asked Robertson.  Wilde replied,
	'Nothing whatever, but is just what nobody will guess.'
	The suggestion of a mysterious confraternity enigmatically
	binding one of the players with some members of the
	audience, gave Wilde the delight he had found in
	Masonic signs.  The green carnation was to take on
	some of the suggestiveness of lilies and sunflowers.
	With a hint of decadence, the painted flower blended
	art and nature.

Wilde and his friends wore green carnations on other occasions
too, such as the opening night of _The_Importance_of_Being_Earnest_,
three years later.

Furthermore, a friend of Wilde's, Robert Hichens, wrote
_The_Green_Carnation_ (published in September 1894), which
"pretended to be a parody  [of Wilde and Douglas's
relationship], but was more like a documentary."  The book
initially amused Wilde but later grew to irritate him,
especially as it was rumoured that he had written it himself. 
The book also made "its small but noticeable contribution to
the growing disfavor that Wilde was encountering," and it
particularly annoyed Queensberry, Alfred Douglas's father, who
provoked Wilde in the following year into the fatal mistake
of prosecuting Queensberry for libel.
________________
George V. Reilly   <GeorgeRe@Microsoft.Com>
From: asuccop@milton.u.washington.edu (Annemarie Succop)
Subject: vanity fair
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 21:22:59 GMT


	this month's issue of _vanity_fair_ (sept 92, $3) has, in
	additon to an interview w/camille paglia & one w/gore vidal (with
	a totally adorable picture of him in the 50's, a more recent pic,
	& some mention of his partner of 42 years), on pp 262-263, an ad
	for banana republic w/two 20ish whiteboys w/long hair sitting on a 
	rooftop.

	together.

	w/one man's arm around the other, the other sort of holding the
	first one's hand, & the first one's other hand sort of tucked
	gropingly bw/ the second man's shirt & jacket.

	i was impressed.

	(there's a series of banana republic ads in this issue, all couples
	in romanticish poses, w/ 'free souls' or 'free spirits' written
	on the page; all of the others are het couples, tho some of the
	other male & female models are fairly androgynous.)

	here i just bought this issue for the interview w/courtney love
	(in a pregnant picture with her hand in a weird pose, since her
	cigarette was airbrushed out).

	annemarie
	asuccop@u.washington.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: brent@syacus.acus.oz.au (Brent Davies)
Subject: Re: Metzenbaum introduces Senate bill to end military ban
Organization: Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Melbourne
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 00:01:53 GMT

drp@dosbears.UUCP (David R. Preston) writes:

>In article <1992Aug10.183339.7261@spdcc.com> joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) writes:

>>I think
>>everyone should serve in the army for a year unless they are a
>>concientious objector in which case they are forced to fill potholes
>>in Boston roads for a few months.

>Sounds OK to me. Dominik K. Jacob's year in the German army
>should be up in a few months, maybe he'll tell us how well that
>system works.

(*urk*)--Uh, indentureship may have been okay with Dominik, but it wouldn't
be okay with *lots* of others.  Me included.

--Brent
Newsgroups: soc.motss