From: ratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Stainless Steel Rat)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Re: SRUN magicalness
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:58:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: splinter.RATINOX.92Apr6125814
Reply-To: ratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu
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In-reply-to: thornt_g@cs.uwa.oz.au's message of 6 Apr 92 04:46:20 GMT
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>>>>> On 6 Apr 92 04:46:20 GMT, thornt_g@cs.uwa.oz.au (Sebastian Nobwit DeLaBler) said:

thornt_g> I would like to say something in light of all the discussion about
thornt_g> magical/astral stuff in shadowrun.

thornt_g> Ahem.

thornt_g> The shadowrun magic system is SILLY.

Silly? I personally find it quite refreshing that PCs can actually start
out as COMPETANT mages.

thornt_g> I HATE the way mages can learn any kind of spell that you could
thornt_g> possibly think of.

With the concurrent major cost in Karma.

thornt_g> I HATE the way that magic can emulate basically any effect you 
thornt_g> could get from cyberware, and do it better.

Not necessarily better. Magic and tech are roughly equal, though there are
some exceptions.

thornt_g> I HATE the way most magic takes no time, gestures, 
thornt_g> ingredients, preperations, or ANYTHING AT ALL that makes using 
thornt_g> magic a hassle! (I know that there is ritual magic and summoning)

Sure it does. Check the Grimoire. Most spells, especially healing, take
time to cast. Gestures, ingredients (foci), preparation, etc., are all part
of Geasa in the Grimoire.

thornt_g> I HATE the way that magic is totally documented in a scientific
thornt_g> way so that a magic-user knows EXACTLY what a spell will do, and
thornt_g> it's PRECISE effects. 

What about shamanism? :-)

thornt_g> Basically, mages in shadowrun are gods. They can do whatever they
thornt_g> like, whenever they like, and better than anyone without magic.
thornt_g> You let a plauer design a mage, just watch him assign particular
thornt_g> priorities in the right place, and BANG! He has a mage that can
thornt_g> do anything! You name it! Dial-A-Spell!

Here, eat my 1/2 level fireball (tosses a grenade). Scratch 1 mage.

thornt_g> Magic should be MYSTERIOUS! Not entirely defined. There should be
thornt_g> some things about magic that you can NEVER know. 

Ah, this sounds like someone who's played DnD too much :-). Just because
the *rules* say that you can do this, that, and the other doesn't mean
magic isn't mysterious. Roleplay it, for cripes' sake.

thornt_g> It also should be a hassle! You shouldn't be able to summon
thornt_g> magical energies, form them into something uselful, channel/control
thornt_g> them, all in the same time it takes to throw a punch or fire a gun!
thornt_g> It should be DIFFICULT! Not so easy that anyone who wants to cast
thornt_g> a spell automatically does it!

It is. That's what the willpower check is for.

thornt_g> There should be some sacrifice involved! Magic should take it's
thornt_g> toll! Not simply be at the beck and call of anyone who wants to use
thornt_g> it! 

There is. First, time spent studying new spells. Second, the restrictions
on grafting tech to your body. Third, Geasa if you fall into that category.
And there are more. Roleplay it.

thornt_g> It should be LIMITED! Magic should not be able to do EVERYTHING!

Why? And why not? Magic is power, magic is capable of doing anything if you
know how to direct it properly.

thornt_g> It should not emulate the exact effects of science! It's MAGIC
thornt_g> afterall! Magic is something not possible in a scientific view!

To paraphrase: any technology advanced enough to your perspective is
indistinguishable from magic. The hermetic path is just that: the
scientific application of magical energies. You want mystical, take a look
at it from the shaman's perspective.

thornt_g> I'm sorry, but I just had to say that. Of course, all is IMHO.

thornt_g> The problem is, I love shadowrun, but I hate the magic!

Now *that* is an oxymoron, like ``military intelligence.''

thornt_g> Comments, anyone?

Yeah, how long have you been playing DnD?

--Rat
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