HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Torah is the center of every Jew? (was Orthadox Judaism and women)
Date: 22 Jan 93 08:18:57
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: soldan.aero.org
In-reply-to: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com's message of Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:02:31 GMT

On Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:02:31 GMT, gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler) said:
> First, I must say that your wife doesn't know what she's talking
> about. [...]

I'll pass on your comments. I'm sure she'll have something to say :-)

> Does Reform discourage or in any way regard homosexuality as
> anything less than the ideal family structure?  If so, isn't that
> discrimination?  

Internally, Reform prefers that traditional family unit. However, it doesn't
think that homosexuality should be a reason for discrimination against the
family.

> After all, isn't that saying that the "better"
> spouse for a male is a female, and vice versa?  

I don't think you've ever seen me claiming that Reform is completly free of
Sexism. However, it is less sexist than Orthodoxy.

> Does R perform homosexual "marriages"?

No, although some Rabbi's have indicated that they will recognize some unions
(in fact, I think it was a conservative Rabbi that did this--perhaps
Shulweis). It's provoked quite a bit of discussion here in LA.

>> They argue with you because you are wrong. Statistics have shown in the US
>> that Reform and Conservative are *growing* in comparison with Orthodoxy,
>> although Judaism as a whole is shrinking.

> Could you please provide the statistics on this?  I am interested.

I believe you'll find these results if you check the recent surveys done by
the Federation.

Daniel
--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
		    "And as they say, the rest is compost"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: kranzer@adx.adelphi.edu (Herbert Kranzer)
Subject: Re: Fourscore and several years ...
Organization: Adelphi University
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 07:20:13 GMT

ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:


>In Torah portion we just read we find the words:   [ Ex 7:7 ]

>  U`Moshe ben-sh`monim shanah    And Moses was fourscore years
>  v`Aharon ben-shlosh u`sh`monim And Aaron was three and fourscore
>  shanah                         years
>  b`dabram el-paroh              when they spoke to Pharoah

>Why is shmonim translated by so many Jewish sources as "fourscore?"

>And another thing...
>Why is one 3 and 80 years while the other is 80 years and 3?
>---
>And when 90 or 30 or similar numbers are used, the translation is
>always 90 or 30 and not fourscore and 10 (or twoscore and 10).
>Oh well, ....
 
There is at least one well-known exception to the last remark.  In
Psalm 90, the measure of man's days (shiv'im shanah) is usually
translated as "threescore years and ten".   The translators may have
done this to form a parallel construction with the immediately
following phrase "or by reason of strength fourscore years", but
the expression "threescore and ten" has become a commonly used
locution in modern English, even among those who are unaware of its
Biblical origin.

Herb Kranzer
kranzer@adx.adelphi.edu


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: er@iscp.bellcore.com (Elie Rosenfeld)
Subject: Re: Ariel
Organization: Bellcore
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 19:55:33 GMT

In article <105961@netnews.upenn.edu>, weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
|> In article <199301211402.AA25759@das.wang.com>, MASH@WEIZMANN (Michael Shimshoni) writes:
|> >rmt51@cas.org (Rick Turkel) discusses possible Hassidic names: >Also,
|> >the name Ariel itself is somewhat unrealistic for a Chassidic man,
|> >>being a modern name.
|> 
|> >... it is incorrect to  consider Ariel a modern name, just look
|> >up Ezra 8,16.
|> 
|> And Isaiah 29:1, where Ariel is used as a personification of Jerusalem.
|> It's rather strange seeing a man's name referred to as "she".  Then
|> again, perhaps it's also a woman's name?

But of course!  Haven't you all seen "The Little Mermaid"?
-- 
Elie Rosenfeld      | "I am what I am, Leila -- and if there are self-made
Bellcore            |  purgatories, then we all must live in them.
Piscataway, N.J.    |  Mine is no worse than someone else's."
(908) 699-8800      |                     - Spock, "This Side of Paradise"
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: MASTURBATION/HANDSHAKING Halachah-Forbidden?
Date: 27 Jan 93 01:29:13 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1993Jan26.152517.5002@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>In article <9301241815.AA02364@nysernet.ORG> <@SEARN.SUNET.SE: 27916070@PLEARN.BITNET> writes:
>>Are the following things forbidden by Halachah (Jewish Law)?
>>(2) HANDSHAKES
>>    (a) Jewish Female:Jewish Male
>>    (b) Jewish:Nonjewish
>>        (aa) Jew/ess:Goy/ah Idolater/ress
>>        (bb) Jew/ess:Goy/ah Nonidolater/ress
>
>Modern society forces this to be permitted or to be isolated and
>outcast, but I think most Jewish-NonJewish contact was forbidden at
>one point in time or another.  Very few prohibit it today, though.

I asked someone who knew a bit more than I do.  It appears there is no
prohibition to handshaking man-man or woman-woman, regardless of
faith.  Man-woman, however causes problems.  It is generally not
allowed, since any physical contact between a man and woman who are
not married to each other can lead to immorality in the long run.  But
we live in a world, where handshakes are common and (to most people)
indicate no more than a business relationship.

Therefore: One should not proffer a handshake or accept one unless the
other person doesn't understand and would get insulted.  It is not
permitted to cause undue hostility in others.  Therefore, a handshake
prohibition, which is a rabbinic "fence" to keep one as far away from
immoral relationships as possible, takes a back seat to not causing
hostilities, which is a direct halacha.


-- 
  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
 /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses
 ~|~
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Fourscore and several years ...
Date: 24 Jan 93 15:43:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: netnews.106342
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)

In article <1993Jan24.003938.7205@cbnews.cb.att.com>, ask@cbnews (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>How did Lincoln come up with that particular phrase?

>I suspect, from the scriptures.

Of course!  Many of our glowing political phrases from the literate
pre-TV era are scriptural.  "Proclaim freedom throughout the land"
and so on.  Lincoln learned to read from the Bible.  Unlike the rest
of us, who learned to read from Dick and Jane.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Date: Tuesday, 26 January 1993 09:35:33 MST
X-Mailer: TMail version 1.15R
From: "D. C. Sessions" <dcs@witsend.tnet.com>
Organization: Nobody but me -- really
Subject: Re: Fourscore and several years ...
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Distribution: world

In <1993Jan24.003938.7205@cbnews.cb.att.com>, ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)  wrote:
# Another thing: Ex 7:7 uses:   v`Aharon ben-shlosh u`sh`monim 
# 
# elsewhere, e.g., Gen 16:16 uses: v`Avram ben-sh`monim
#                                        shanah v`sheish
# 
# Why is one 3 and 80 years while the other is 80 years and 3?

  Well, we know that the Creator was the first engineer (proof
  left to the reader); this simply shows that the Big Endian
  and Little Endian conventions also go all the way back...

--- D. C. Sessions                            Speaking for myself ---
--- Note new network address:                dcs@witsend.tnet.com ---
--- Author (and everything else!) of TMail  (DOS mail/news shell) ---
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:26018 talk.politics.mideast:26180 soc.culture.african.american:14306
From: barnhart@ddsw1.mcs.com (Mr. Aaron Barnhart)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Martin Luther King Quotes
Date: 24 Jan 93 15:05:59 GMT
Organization: Evanston, Illinois, U.S.A.

steven@maui.cs.ucla.edu (Steve Berson) wrote:
:
:Someone sent me a more complete version of this quote which I 
:include here in which Martin Luther King explains in more detail
:what he means about Zionism and anti-Semitism.
:
:
:".  .  .  You declare, my friend, that you do not hate the Jews, you
:are merely 'anti-Zionist.' And I say, let the truth ring forth
:from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of
:God's green earth:  When people criticize Zionism, they mean
:Jews--this is God's own truth.

Anybody know if King's old friend Stanley Levison was a Zionist
or active in pro-Israel matters?  (I speak as a friend.)

Aaron
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal)
Subject: Davidic Lineage
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:06:36 GMT


There have occasionally been posts from people talking
about Davidic lines, in particular missionaries make the
claim that we have lost all of our Davidic lines.

Interestingly, in "The Jews of Muslim Spain" there is
some discussion about the roots of various communities
of Jews in Spain, and in connection with this it is
stated that the Abrabanel (Abravanel) family tradition
was that it was Davidic, descended from Judaean
nobles who were brought to Spain at the time of the destruction
of the Second Temple.

If anyone has to answer the question, from where can the Messiah
come, here is one answer.


		Seth Rosenthal

Disclaimer: All opinions are my own not my employers'.
From: MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Go and see 'A Stranger among us'
Date: 21 Jan 93 13:58:54 GMT
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

In: <1993Jan20.232603.13934@cas.org>
rmt51@cas.org (Rick Turkel) discusses possible Hassidic names:

>In article <1993Jan19.235211.16353@ttinews.tti.com>, root@metis.tti.com
>(Operator) writes:
>|>
>|> My wife spotted an error in the movie: there's a scene where
>|> women are making challah, and they are breaking eggs right into the
>|> flour.
>|>
>|> BZZZZZT!  Wrong, they would break the eggs into a bowl to check
>|> for blood spots first.  Anyone else spot anything Judaically Incorrect?
>
>I saw the film a while ago, but I remember clearly that when Ariel first took
>the suitcase from the policewoman (I've forgotten her name) he caressed her
>hand, which was completely unrealistic.
>
>Also, the name Ariel itself is somewhat unrealistic for a Chassidic man,
>being a modern name.

I have *not* seen that movie, so I should be in great shape to discuss
all its aspects, but I will restrain myself this time. ;-)

Just as names go,  I do not know if Ariel is used  by Hassidim or not,
they have a tendency to use  half Yiddish sounding names like Dov Ber,
where Ber  is Yiddish  and Dov  not Biblical,  though Hebrew.   On the
other hand it is incorrect to  consider Ariel a modern name, just look
up Ezra 8,16.

>|> Reid Kneeland
>
>Rick Turkel         (___  ____  _  _  _  _  _     _  ___   _   _ _  ___

 Michael Shimshoni
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: wnbc@next01pg2.wam.umd.edu (Joseph Samuel Kaufman)
Subject: ARAFAT IS A GIRL
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 03:10:41 GMT

It is true.  Arafat was a girl.  What happened was, they chopped one of  
his big toes off and sewed it on his private area to make him look male.   
The only problem is now he pees out his foot.

**************************************************************************
In-Real-life: Joe Kaufman, University of Maryland College Park, MD, U.S.A.
------- "Howard Stern is number one, Magic Johnson will soon be done."----
	wnbc@eng.umd.edu 	 phone: 1 301 277-3339        :----)
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Ariel
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:03:49 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni)

In article <199301211402.AA25759@das.wang.com>, MASH@WEIZMANN (Michael Shimshoni) writes:
>rmt51@cas.org (Rick Turkel) discusses possible Hassidic names: >Also,
>the name Ariel itself is somewhat unrealistic for a Chassidic man,
>>being a modern name.

>... it is incorrect to  consider Ariel a modern name, just look
>up Ezra 8,16.

And Isaiah 29:1, where Ariel is used as a personification of Jerusalem.
It's rather strange seeing a man's name referred to as "she".  Then
again, perhaps it's also a woman's name?
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Cleaning up SCJ
Date: 24 Jan 93 15:40:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: netnews.106341
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: friedenb@boswell.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)

In article <1jt1hmINNf8s@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, friedenb@boswell (Gedaliah Friedenberg) writes:
>Please help the situation by not posting anything that is 
>inappropriate to SCJ.  

Unfortunately, there are some seriously clueless newbies that are
hellbent on trashing SCJ, refusing to respect the appropriate topics,
and absolutely unwilling to discuss things in e-mail with people who
point out their mistakes and idiocies.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: marrage question
Date: 21 Jan 93 10:37:44 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <93020.200520ERSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> ERSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET (Eric
Schweitzer) writes:

>I have heard that, according to the Talmud, there are 4 ways to
                                                      ^^^^
No there are just 3 ways.

> become betrothed (keseph-by payment of money; shetar-by delivery of
> contract; bi'ha-intercorse with a commitment of marrage;

> hulla-meeting under a huppa).
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 I din't understand the term  "hulla-meeting" . But the Hupa is not a
way of "enggement" but of MARRIAGE.

According to the Ashkenazic and sefaradic Minhag that means "being
together at their home", ( the "being alone at a room" is done too in
order to follow all opiunions ) . the sefaradic Minhag is that beside
being under the hupa the man cover the women with his talit , both are
covered)`.
Yammanite do no Hupa ( todays yamanites are "spoiled" and many do of
them do that).

>Similarly, is there more than one way to be married?

The only marriage way described above.

> Does there have to be a Rabbi presiding?

No, therte is nothing like "Rabbi" in judaism.
A rabbi is a person expert on jewish law and behave accordingly.
BUT
the 2 witnesses should be KOSHER ones, not relative to any of the
married couple or to each other, and they should be KOSHER persons ,
( namely person that do care about halacha ).

Practically you should have a REAL rabbi watching the wedding in order
that things will be done correctly. That rabbi plays no role in the
wedding beside inspecting that everything is done correctly.

The marriage is valid becouse of the actions, the existance of kosher
wirnesses and the willing of the couple to be married.

( Unlike civil or christian wedding when the judge or the priest
  declaration makes the marriage validity )

> (Of course, I am asking about a Jewish wedding, not a civil
>ceremony. This will settle a long standing argument between my wife and I).
>
>Thanks.
From: david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu (David Kaufmann)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Torah is the center of every Jew? (was Orthadox Judaism and women)
Date: 27 Jan 93 22:13:56 GMT
Organization: Department of Electrical Engineering, Tulane Univ.
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-11448]: bourbon


First, I want to thank Maddi for inspiring me to do a bit more
research.

In regard to the rape of the betrothed maiden (best of all bad
translations):

A woman has three possible statuses in Judaism: child (under 12),
young girl (can't translate the word) (12-12 1/2) and adult. Legally,
a child belongs to the parents and an adult to herself. The "young
girl" is in an in-between state. The law refer to is about the "young
girl" who is engaged, and whose status, therefore, requires special
consideration.

Rape is considered personal injury and subject to the same damages as
any other case of personal injury. Penalities for personal injury are
monetary compensation, corporal punishment or death, depending on the
crime and the evidence (and applied in all cases in that order).

The rapist must pay for pain & suffering, embarrassment (humiliation)
and injury, regardless of status. In the case of the "young girl,"
because of the transitional nature of her status, and thus greater
vulnerability, there is an additional penalty, a fine. It is this fine
the law you bring up discusses.

BTW, the evidence needed for conviction is essentially the woman's
testimony (more details can be found in Maimonides and the Talmud) and
the monetary penalties were far from trivial.

Rape was and is a serious crime in Judaism, long before "modern"
courts. Other systems of jurisprudence would benefit from a study of
it.

David Kaufmann
INTERNET:	david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Alter Rebbe?
Date: 22 Jan 93 20:54:06 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <199301211402.AA25753@das.wang.com> MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni) writes:
>I am always puzzled when I read this title the Alter Rebbe which means
>the old Rebbe.  I understand that this is how the Chabbad people refer
>to their  founder.  But why  "Alter"? Now  this title surely  fits the
>present Lubavitcher Rebbe,  him being alive but  not especially young,
>but it  seems odd to be  used for a  dead person...

Rabbis get names and titles like this based on books they've written
or on things they've done.  The Alter Rebbe was probably called this
as a nickname, which caught on.  I've never heard of someone's name
changing after death - at the very least, it's disrespectful.
-- 
  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
 /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses
 ~|~
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.african.american
From: hem@col400.att.com (Hillel E. Markowitz)
Subject: Re: Martin Luther King Quotes
Originator: news@cbnewsf.cb.att.com
Reply-To: H_Markowitz@att.com
Organization: AT&T Federal Systems
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:43:06 GMT

On 21 Jan 93 01:46:35 GMT, jhf@dbrus.Unify.Com (Jeff Fields) said:

> In article <1jh6jtINNgvm@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> friedenb@silver.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg) writes:
>>
>>Being the day after Dr. Martin Luther King's birthday, I felt that it
>>might be nice to post a few of his quotes.  There are many more like
>>these, but I don't have time to look up more at this time.
>>
>>
>>"When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews; you're taking anti-Semitism"

> Also not all Semites are Jews. Anti-Semitism was a term invented in the
> Zionist movement of the 19th century. It should have disappeared from
> the world vocabulary then. The Semites are a geographical class of people
> who have traditionally inhabited the area in and adjacent to the modern
> nation of Israel. There are many tribal and religious divisions in the
> Semitic peoples, which include Muslims, Jews, and Christians.

The word "anti-Semitism" was created in Germany in 1879 by Wilhelm Marr
as a more euphonious way of saying "Judenhass" (Jew-hatred), and has
always meant exactly that.  Its antonym, "Semitism" connoted a positive
attitude toward the Jewish people.  Marr was an equal-opportunity
bigot, hating many groups.  The word has become too sanitized and too
easily misunderstood, which is exactly what Marr tried to accomplish
with the word's creation.

--
____________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz    |     Im ain ani li mi li    |
| H_Markowitz@att.com | Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha |
|_____________________|____________________________|
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: ANTISEMITE - Is there a better word?
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 22:38:17 GMT

EXTDSM@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU (MADDISON,David) writes:

>Do people think that the word "antisemite" properly conveys its
intended use to >mean a person against Jews and Judaism? Technically,
semites are members of a >group which share the semitic languages and
include Jews, Arabs, Assyrians etc, >all of whom are descendants of
Shem. How about Judeophobe?

Except when deliberately distorted for their own purposes by
anti-semites, the word anti-semite quite properly conveys its meaning,
which has nothing to do with semites.
-- 
Alan H. Stein                     astein@israel.nysernet.org
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:25962 soc.culture.german:10227
From: jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Detest Germans?
Date: 23 Jan 1993 16:48:51 -0500
Organization: Mount Holyoke College
NNTP-Posting-Host: slab.mtholyoke.edu

In article <93022.014410U09416@uicvm.uic.edu> Pankaj Saxena <U09416@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>The point that several people have tried to make in this thread is that much of
>what the Nazis were able to get away with was because the general public didn't
>really think there was anything wrong about the idea of condemning a race as
>inferior. You typify that philosophy.

I don't know if anyone was trying to make that point, but there's
actually something to that, you know.  In the first half of this
century a vast majority of whites (in Europe, the US, and everywhere
else) still believed that blacks were lower on the evolutionary
ladder, for example.  The USA was an apartheit state.  The general
line justifying colonialism was that the subject-peoples weren't
developed enough to govern themselves.  Etc.  

However, this is essentially irrelevant as the continuing ethnic
violence perpetrated throughout the world demonstrats that the
universal acceptance of the idea of basic human rights and equality
(at least by the intellectual classes) has failed to prevent the
threat of genocide from being as real as ever.
-- 
Jurgen Botz, jbotz@mtholyoke.edu
Northampton, MA, USA