HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: manes@bu-pub.bu.edu (Michelle Manes)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Literary Canon
Date: 26 Aug 92 17:42:31 GMT
Organization: Boston University

In article <BtLF0C.EGy@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, msmorris@watsci.waterloo.edu (Mike Morris) writes:
|> He only
|> pointed out that it was a little bizarre for Michelle to complain
|> about the absence of minorities and women in the Great Books set, and
|> then use the apparently quite arbitrary notion of race that she did
|> to turn around and assert that the classical Greeks were non-white.

I never asserted the classical Greeks were non-white, or I did not
mean to.  I meant to imply that I was unsure which category they
belonged in.  I did not want to include them as "nonwhites," but I
didn't want to imply they were white (as in modernish European).
The whole thing originated because my devil's advocate husband
argued with me when I said there were no nonwhites represented in the
set.  He mentioned Plato and Cervantes.  As someone else pointed out,
Cervantes is a tough call -- is Spanish a white race too?  I was
willing to concede that one but not the ancient Greeks.  I was only
willing to give them their own special category -- neither white
nor nonwhite.  Of course, this whole discussion took place off the
net and prior to my post.  Therefore, none of you knew what I was
talking about or how I was making my classifications.  I seem to
have caused much confusion and debate.  Sorry.


michelle
-- 
Michelle Manes		|	"What should I be when I grow up?"
manes@bass.bu.edu	|	"Honest."
			|	-Robert M. Pirsig
From: wagner@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Back to Books
Date: 4 Sep 92 16:48:52 GMT

> I am reading nonfiction books on parenting, spirituality, religion and
> such, but I cannot seem to find a book of fiction that interests me.
> This is surprising, as I usually thrive on a diet of novels only.
> Can anyone recommend a book that will knock my socks off? I'm looking
> for something entertaining but not empty. Nothing that might dampen
> the spirit, please. I could use a change of scenery, so something
> set in a country other than the U.S. might be nice.
> 
> What do I usually read, you might ask. I enjoy Pynchon, Faulkner,
> T. Coraghessan Boyle, Austen, Dickens, Philip Roth, Willa Cather,
> R.K. Narayan, Graham Greene, Bernard Malamud, some of Martin
> Amis's work, Louise Erdrich. . . . I enjoy anything
> that's good. I'm not crazy about the little science fiction that
> I've read, and the only mysteries I've enjoyed were written
> by Tony Hillerman and Georges Simenon. I don't read romance novels,
> although I will confess that, after a friend's suggestion that
> I try to read what the "masses" read, I read _Princess Daisy_
> by what's-her-name. My doctor has just authorized my return to
> solid foods, thank you.
> 
> Suggestions?

I like most of the authors you like, and I liked Remains of The Day
by Kazuo Ishiguro very much.  Ditto Midnight's Children by one S. Rushdie.
Two apparently unknown early twentieth century Russian authors who 
don't deserve their oblivion are Yuri Olesha and Mikhail Bulgakov 
(although Bulgakov's Master and Margarita far outshines anything else 
I've found by him- it's a book about a visit the Devil paid to Moscow
in the 1920's.  He wore tweed.)  And of course, you could always reread 
Madame Bovary.
							-Luke
From: wmartin@STL-06SIMA.ARMY.MIL (Will Martin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: John McPhee
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:20:52 GMT

I noted some references to John McPhee in various postings in r.a.b
recently. I consider him the best nonfiction author writing in 
America today, and have read everything by him I could find. He is
so good that he can write about a topic I care absolutely nothing
for and make it interesting and a joy to read. (For example, I despise
sports, yet I enjoyed reading his books on Arthur Ashe and Bill Bradley.)

Anyway, I write to ask if anyone knows what he is currently working on.
I subscribed to The New Yorker a year or so ago with one of the primary
motivations being to be able to read the next McPhee series in there.
(His works always appeared serialized in TNY before coming out in book
form.) Unfortunately, over a year has gone by with no McPhee in there!
Sob! 

I think his last book was LOOKING FOR A SHIP, about the US Merchant
Marine. Am I right in that, or has there been something more recent?

Regards, Will
wmartin@st-louis-emh2.army.mil OR wmartin@stl-06sima.army.mil
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:15270 rec.humor:27358 alt.folklore.urban:22474 rec.arts.sf.misc:2754
From: qsnow@lonestar.utsa.edu (Quentin . Snow)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 29 Aug 92 22:44:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: ringer.1992Aug29.224438.6644
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio

In article <1992Aug29.173357.15216@husc3.harvard.edu> rocher@husc8.harvard.edu (Jean-Marc Rocher) writes:
>In article <1992Aug27.145103.14601@ncmicro.lonestar.org> ltf@ncmicro.lonestar.org (Lance Franklin) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug25.194259.853@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> gfm@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (George Francis McBay) writes:
>>}In article <1992Aug25.153404.2055@ccs.QueensU.CA> 3005904@jeff-lab.queensu.ca (Colleen Davis (Dexter)) writes:
>>} >>>>>>>IF THIS DOESN'T STOP, IM GOING TO START THE WORST CASCADE EVER.
>>} >>>>>>WHILE EATING THIS SLOP, I SEWED THE FIRST BROCADE BEAVER.
>>} >>>>>BILE FITTING RIG STOP, LIE SPEWED THIRST LIVER !!!!
>>} >>>>IF YOU MUST CONTRIBUTE, AT LEAST DELIVER...
>>} >>>WHO MAY I ATTRIBUTE TO THIS BEASTLY SLIVER?
>>} >>TO SPAY A LUTE IN A GREASY RIVER
>>} >DAMN CASCADERS THINK YOU'RE SO CLEVER
>>} I WILL NOT CASCADE; NOPE, NO, NEVER
>>WOULD YOU, COULD YOU, ON A TRAIN?
>WOULD YOU, COULD YOU, IN THE RAIN?
PLEASE STOP TAKING MY CAIN
>>
>>
>>Sam I am!
>
>					...Jean-Marc Rocher
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Why I read the Economist
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:49:13 GMT


<wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith)> AKA
Sburgfort (accent on the second syllable) writes:

> MICHAEL WISE, from the English Department at UNLV writes:

>        I have to recommend good newsmagazines to my undergraduates for their
>        term papers. As it stands, there is no American newsmagazine on that
>        list.


> Mark Taranto writes:

>       But I'm sure there is some perfectly good reason why Michael's students
>       are writing term papers using "newsmagazines" instead of books.


> I don't think the English language has been confined to books just yet.


Not yet -- but many English departments only teach courses in Literature,
Language (e.g., Grammar & Linguistics) and writing.  When I was at
Villanova, even the writing classes were also literature classes.
I know that there are composition classes at some universities
which are JUST writing classes, and I imagine that there are others
where Journalism or Communications are folded into the English
Department.

I wrote e-mail to Michael, when I posted it, explaining that the snide
comment was just a joke, but that I was curious as to why he was using
magazines.

Mark

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Why I read the Economist
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 14:27:55 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.082621.29382@nevada.edu> wwhitman@nevada.edu (MICHAEL WISE) writes:

>But you don't get it, Mike. Saying one American newmagazine is better 
>than another is like saying Coke is better than Pepsi, when your original
>subject was Chardonnay.

Your conclusion is unwarranted. I enjoy THE ECONOMIST and regard it as
superior in most respects to both TIME and NEWSWEEK. I was responding to
a particular comment of Crawford Kilian's about TIME.

You will forgive me, I hope, if I don't think the difference between the
American newsweeklies and THE ECONOMIST is quite so vast as you do.
As I said above, I do think the magazine is superior in most respects,
but I wasn't trying to talk about THE ECONOMIST in the posting to which
you respond here.

Coke *is* superior to Pepsi, by the way.

>On one hand, you have nothing but sugar, coloring,
>and water; Timeweek & World Report, with their fluff articles, glitzy 
>photos and complete disregard for what the reader knows (or would like to
>know, even if he has to check an encyclopedia for it) sadly seem to be
>regular fare for American readers, even though they are so unreliable
>that high school debate teams are cautioned against using them as a source,
>and undergraduates must search elsewhere for articles relevent to their
>term papers.

Me, I love fluff articles and glitzy photos, but I feel compelled to point out
that NEWSWEEK, and to a lesser extent, TIME, are generally more perceptive
in their reporting of domestic American politics than THE ECONOMIST is.
The latter magazine never "got" the appeal of Ross Perot, for example,
and its reporters have a poor grasp of the dynamics of an American
presidential campaign. (At this point, let me reiterate for the r.a.b.id
that Richard Ben Cramer's WHAT IT TAKES, which deals with the '88
presidential campaign, is a remarkably perceptive, brilliantly written
book that's well worth buying in hardback.)

As for high-school debate teams, well, I can't say that the needs of this
benighted class of American high-school students ought to say anything
about what normal, sane, and nonvicious people ought to read.

>I have to recommend good newsmagazines to my undergraduates for their
>term papers. As it stands, there is no American newsmagazine on that 
>list. Quite a shame, I've always felt, that the best news about America
>comes from London.

Given what you write here, I suspect your opinion of NEWSWEEK comes
from your reading of TIME.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact 
mnemonic@eff.org| of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, 
(617) 864-0665  | both are transformed."
EFF, Cambridge  |                           --Carl Jung
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Why I read the Economist
Date: 1 Sep 92 17:02:12 GMT



I stopped reading Time and Newsweek in the mid-80s.

My problems with these magazines do not come from their glitz, style
or political bent, but rather because they are not national news magazines.
There was a prevailing provincial attitude expressed in their articles
which indicated that they believed that if something wasn't happening
in New York, Washington or L.A, it wasn't happening.

Two incidents come to mind.  In 1980, both Time and Newsweek had cover
articles on the Picasso exhibit at the Museum of Modern Art in New York.
The exhibit was considered an important one, and I did not mind it
getting the coverage.  It only came to two museums.  I saw the exhibit
when it opened four months earlier in Minneapolis.  I wondered why it
only became newsworthy a few months later when it arrived in New York.

A few years later, two or three Catholic cardinals were installed.
Newsweek had a two or three page article on the new Cardinal from New
York.  There was one paragraph on the Cardinal from Boston.  There
are two reasons why this struck me as strange.  While it is true that
the Cardinal from New York is considered one of the leaders in American
Catholicism, the Cardinal from Boston is also.  During the 1950s & 1960s,
Cardinal Spellman (NY) and Cardinal Cushing (Boston) were both in the news
frequently.  But the second reason was that the Cardinal from Boston was
a black man.  I believe that he is the first black to be an American
cardinal -- and I wanted to find out more about him.

This sort of regionalism swore me off of those magazines.  When I moved to
New York, I thought about resubscribing.  But, then, I figured that if
I wanted New York news, I'd get the Times.

Mark
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Take a Chill (Re: The Literary Canon)
Keywords: race canon
Date: 4 Sep 92 13:46:12 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <12138@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>
>Hey, stupid, work on your reading skills.


I can't.  Liberalism has eaten my brain.



-- 
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu

I believe we are on the irreversible trend toward more freedom and
democracy -- but that could change.   -- J. Danforth Quayle  
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:15216 rec.humor:27257 alt.folklore.urban:22327 rec.arts.sf.misc:2734
From: twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:02:48 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <Btp8CJ.6A2@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> ajmiller@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Arkayn) writes:
>In <26AUG92.21515793@bright.pfc.mit.edu> casey@bright.pfc.mit.edu writes:
>
>>FRAIL, MISSPELLED POTATOeS AROUND US DO HOVER!
>Incidently, if you check your Oxford English Dictionary, as well as most
>others, you will find that, contrary to popular opinion, potatoe is not only
>a correct spelling, but for many years was THE correct spelling.


But not in this century, which is the century we live in, or rather, 
WOULD live in if we had a choice, or if we were Americans, which I and 
my mother and brother and so on, many of my great-great grandparents, 
have been for many many years now. 

But that's just us, and that's what I mean when I say "family."  

(Am I in the right solar system yet?) 


--Barbara
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025))
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Literary Canon
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:19:26 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <9208280318.AA16765@cfdev1.shearson.com>, mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes...
> 
>I find myself, once again, in the uncomfortable position of defending
>Clayton Cramer's position.  Uncomfortable, because I have been very
>hard on him.  In my mind, I was also fair.  My sense of fairness is
>what brings me to his defence on this subject.
> 

Boy, Cramer is so lucky to have a friend like you.  

Yawn...
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox)
Subject: Re: Family Relationships
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 08:07:29 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)

	Stephan Spender is Father Guido Sarducci's mother.  I know; I met 
him once--Fred Cody said, "This is Stephan Spender.  We went to school 
together" (or words to that effect), and I said, "Hi."  Spender seemed very 
tall and much too tan to be English.
-- 
				Tom Maddox
		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
		   "I swear I never heard the first shot"
                Wm. Gibson, "Agrippa:  a book of the dead"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Why I've stopped reading The New Republic
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 23:51:15 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.223456.6327@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> scasburn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven M Casburn) writes:

>The biggest case in point is TNR's Middle Eastern coverage. Correct me if I'm
>wrong, but has TNR ever run an article even *mildly* critical of Israel's
>policy in the West Bank? I have a hard time stomaching the endless pro-Israel
>bias. It truly is annoying.

I alluded in my earlier post to TNR's Israel stance. I wasn't clear on this,
but one should take my generalizations about THE NEW REPUBLIC to apply
to the magazine's coverage of areas other than Israel and the Middle East.
Even so, TNR does occasionally criticize Israel--it's just that Martin
Peretz is guaranteed to overcompensate in his own editorializing for any
such criticism. And Peretz publishes TNR.

>On the other hand, Mike Kinsley usually does a great job in bringing logic to
>bear on arguments he disagrees with. So, no, TNR isn't all bad. But I wouldn't
>extol it as a model for others to follow, either.

With the exception of its Israel coverage (with which I often agree, by
the way, but which is nonetheless heavily biased pro-Israel), TNR is,
IMHO, a very good model for opinion journals.



--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact 
mnemonic@eff.org| of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, 
(617) 864-0665  | both are transformed."
EFF, Cambridge  |                           --Carl Jung
From: lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (Larry Hammer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Why I read the Economist
Date: 30 Aug 92 18:52:16 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson AZ

Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian) writes:
>The Economist, whatever its politics (and I find its confident tone sometimes
>absurd), has aimed for a market of educated, literate readers who want
>information rather than glitzy layouts and color photographs. While it's
>expensive compared to the US and Canadian newsweeklies, on a per-fact basis
>it's the best bargain around.

What He Said.

	Larry "Echo of the Net" Hammer

(yeah, but to whose Narcisis?)
--

LNH@albert.physics.arizona.edu   \  "One like a wombat prowled obtuse
The insane don't need disclaimers \  and furry"  --Christina Rossetti
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Titles for Tom Maddox Biography Needed
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:29:18 GMT


doland@mammoth.com (Doug Doland) writes:

> "I'm so witty, I'm so witty and pretty and gay..."

> but what do think of this:

>         TOM MADDOX: THE ZIT WHO MADE MEDICAL SCIENCE WEEP

I think that this might pass for wit in some of the other newsgroups,
but most of the r.a.b.ble will think it rather dull and sophomoric.


Mark

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: stcmille@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Stephen C. Miller)
Subject: Re: John McPhee
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:52:01 GMT

How strange that you would post about McPhee today.

His new series, on Californian Geology, starts in this months New
Yorker.

He is indeed a fine writer, and Looking for a Ship is one of my faves.

I love the way that book ends - with the author sitting on a broken down
ship in hte middle of hte ocean.  Lovely.
-- 
--------------------
=
(former rock star turned grad student)
Steve Miller	 		    stcmille@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: James Joyce available online (sort of)
Date: 27 Aug 92 17:58:22 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.
Originator: proberts@moose


The following small ad appears in the current issue of the
"London Review of Books" (volumn 14, number 16. 20 Aug 92).
I reproduce it here for that tiny minority of r.a.b readers 
who do not take the LRB.

I don't know anything about this beyond what is said in the
text below. Note that "I" and "me" refers to David J. Wilson,
not to Paul M. Roberts.

------------------ begin quoted text ------------------------------

SINCE THE EXPIRY OF THE JAMES JOYCE COPYRIGHTS at the beginning
of this year I have been putting Joyce's books onto computer
disc. Beginning with the major works, Ulysses is complete, and
Finnegan's Wake  will be ready in a couple of weeks. I intend
to make it available on `Public Domain' terms to anyone else 
who may be interested. What this means is that all anyone needs
to do is send me the right number of formatted discs, with return 
postage and a small copying fee.

For more information please send an SAE to:

  David J. Wilson
  Ivy Cottage
  Chathill
  Northumberland
  NE67 5DE
  England

------------------- end quoted text --------------------------------

It sounds as if David J. Wilson would have no objection to someone
making the text available by FTP. Isn't there a project somewhere 
to get all the world's literature available online, as the copyrights
expire? Let's hope they are not double-keying the whole of Joyce!
From: jzimm@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Joann Zimmerman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Worthwhile newspapers (WAS Re: Why I read the Economist
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:40:01 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Sep1.205641.10644@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:

>I read the Chron only for my daily ration of Herb Caen; nothing else. 
>If I wanted to buy or sell something, I guess I'd use the Merc.
 
When I was resident in those parts, I read both the Chron and the
Smerc; when I was looking for financial and technical stuff, or
progress reports on the latest reworking of 101 between Palo Alto and
San Jose, the Smerc was invaluable, but if I wanted cultural news
(opera reviews, art openings, obscure film screenings) I had to look
to the Chron. Neither of them seemed to be truly amazing on foreign
and national news, to my mind.

>	What newspapers are read by members of the r.a.b.ble, and
>	what are their strong and weak points?

I now read the New York Times, the local fishwrap and the daily campus
paper. I can count on the Times to be considerably more completist
than anything else available near campus; unfortunately this also
applies to their typo level, which appears to have increased
exponentially over the last 3 years. I find their editorial and OpEd
balance to be, well, *interesting*; I agree with about half and
disagree violently with the other half, which suggests either that I
have extreme views or they are being well-balanced, or maybe both.

The local paper (_Austin American-Statesman_, generally known as the
_RealEstatesman_ or the _SpaceCase_) is notable chiefly for its
consistency in underestimating the intelligence of its readers; given
a university community of 60,000 students, faculty and staff, as well
as a large state governmental presence, I would, in the best of all
possible worlds (and perhaps even in some less blessed) expect a
higher level of analysis and reporting. (Actually it shows recent
signs of occasional improvement, but I argue from long experience.)
NYT articles are reprinted therein, but almost always in an abridged
fashion - sometimes so much so as to render the result nonsensical. 

The campus paper is *highly* variable on a yearly basis, depending on
what political cabal has taken control of the editorship. The most
recent bunch makes me wonder if they passed any of the required
journalism courses.  


-- 
"[Fiction's] function is not to detail the actual world, but to create
a parallel one. Image by image, phrase by phrase, through artifice and
evocation it must then make that world at once credible and meaningful."
-- Robert Stone               ...!cs.utexas.edu!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!jzimm
From: Lisa.Levine@Corp.Sun.COM (Lisa Levine)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Sea Stories
Date: 28 Aug 92 21:35:27 GMT

_Dead Ned_  and  _Live and Kicking Ned_ by John Masefield. 

He has one or two other seafaring-type novels.  These are
children's books, but as I recall, well written and based 
(no doubt loosely, since there are pirates) on some of his 
own experiences.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books