From: Godfrey de Shipbrook <jlee@smylex.UUCP>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 20:39:39 EST
Organization: Shipbrook Software  (Tampa, FL)

Greetings from Godfrey!

( Master Arval -- or any others who want to respond to this -- if you
  reply to this message, would you please be so kind as to e-mail a copy
  to me?  I leave for vacation in a couple of days, and I don't wish to
  miss your response. )

Arval writes:
> Greetings from Arval!  Godfrey wrote concerning heraldic registration:
>> If one *doesn't* wish to follow the rules, or if (as in the case of the
>> esteemed Carolus) one follows the rules but for one reason or another
>> does not *wish* to register, one simply *doesn't register the device*,
>> and goes ahead and uses it anyway.  No sanctions are imposed upon a
>> person who does this.
> 
> This is incorrect.  In some kingdoms, a registered or submitted name or
> device is required for participation in certain activities.

Very well, then; I guess I've just lived in the `wrong' kingdoms, for
I'd never heard of this rule until *very* recently on the Rialto.  Yet
this is not the fault of the College of Arms, is it?


> More to the point, there is a general attitude that having a registered
> name and device is the right way to play the game.

Ah.  The `general attitude'.  Please bear that phrase in mind; I shall
address it presently.


> If we were to make it very clear that the services provided by the College
> are entirely optional, and that no one should feel pressured to use them,
> then I suppose the College could totter along oblivious to the rest of the
> Society.  Of course that makes the entire notion of a College of Arms
> pretty meaningless: What is the point of doing all that work if the office
> is so thoroughly marginalized?

I would agree with that:  there would be no point.

Unlike you, however, I feel that the CoA is doing a worthy job.  I'd
enjoy the Society quite a bit less if I were continually running into
people named Elrond Halfelven and Conan the Barbarian.  To my mind,
it's a Good Thing that -- if, as you say, the general attitude causes
people to feel that they *must* register names and devices -- the CoA
enforces a standard of authenticity in the devices (and, to an [IMHO]
unfortunately lesser extent, the names) which it accepts.  If someone
feels that he NEEDS to have a registered name and device, the CoA's
requirements by their very nature provide a more mediaeval atmosphere
than if they accepted just *anything* for registration.

Certainly, the Society could get along if there were no registration
of names or devices.  It would make calligraphers' lives hell, of
course, and perhaps some of the pageantry would be lost if this
alleged pressure to register devices were no longer present.


> And, even more to the point, it is a question of focus of activity, rather
> than actual effect.  The College of Arms expends hundreds of man-hours each
> months on regulatory activities.  Whether or not these activities have any
> real impact on the average SCA member, I think that time could be far
> better used in activities that are directly educational.

Now that is true.  Certainly it would be extremely beneficial if
someone would codify the conflict-checking rules into an expert
system, and thus remove a heavy burden from a great many heralds
(this, though, would probably necessitate the possession of the
standard mundane heraldic references in electronic form, which I have
apprehended is not available at the present time).  Certainly, it is
also not necessary for each submitted device to be checked for `proper
style' at every level of the submission process; ideally, the
consulting herald should be able to determine this when working with
the member who's submitting the device.  Or name, for that matter.

But to completely eliminate these activities: that is a suggestion
which I am loath to support.  As I've said, I wouldn't want someone
else to bear my arms.  Nor would I want another Godfrey de Shipbrook
out there; I get into enough trouble with my own actions and words,
and don't need someone else out there doing more of it for me.  :-)


>> I, personally, would like to think that my arms are unique to me...
>> The ultimate point is, what do the *members* want?  Would most members be
>> uncaring if someone in another kingdom bore the same device as they?  Or
>> is a wish for singular arms more the prevalent desire in our Society?
> 
> Exactly.  No one knows.  I think we should find out what the populace
> really does want from the College of Arms, decide if we have the resources
> to provide those services and if they are indeed in the long-term interests
> of the Society, and then decide what services to provide.  No one has ever
> done that.

And yet, *without knowing the answer to that question*, you've already
been proposing that those services which are currently in place should
be unilaterally eliminated.


> Fine, Godfrey, let me
> make the question more specific: Granting for the moment that there might
> be valid reasons for registering names and armory, why should they be
> judged for authenticity before being registered?

Presumably because, when that set of rules was put into place, it was
deemed a desirable thing.  Now, perhaps the general attitude of which
you've spoken has since changed.  But then again, perhaps it has not.

You've said before that you have no desire to impose your views onto
other people.  But by working to eliminate these `arbitrary and
restrictive' rules without first finding out whether or not that's
what the populace really wants, are you not potentially doing just
that?

Perhaps the populace *would* like the rules eliminated.  Perhaps they
would like them to remain.  And yet again, and most probably, perhaps
they would like something in between, by retaining some rules but
eliminating others.

Master Arval, might I respectfully suggest that perhaps you should
heed your own words: that an effort should be made FIRST to ascertain
the desire of the populace, rather than heedlessly acting towards
what you think they *should* want?


+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Net:  Jeff Lee / jlee@smylex.uucp / jlee%smylex.uucp@tscs.tscs.com     |
| SCA:  Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook / Wyvernwood, Trimaris                 |
|       Per pale azure and argent, a clarion counterchanged or and gules |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
    "The only thing that helps me maintain my slender grip on reality
    is the friendship I share with my collection of singing potatoes."