HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hlj@hal.nta.no (Harald Ljoen FBA)
Subject: Re: MiniDiscs -- What Are They?
Reply-To: harald.ljoeen@nta.no
Organization: Norwegian Telecom Research
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 12:10:32 GMT

In article <24664@alice.att.com>, jj@alice.att.com (jj, curmudgeon and all-around grouch) writes:
>In article <1993Jan20.094857.28481@nntp.nta.no> harald.ljoeen@nta.no writes:
>>In article <24645@alice.att.com>, jj@alice.att.com (J. Johnston) writes:
>>>I disagree that the differences are likely to be due to the DAC.
>>>Some differences, perhaps.  BUT try recording a pulse train at
>>                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>630 Hz or so, or a set of non-harmonic tones spaced about 750 Hz
>>                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>apart, starting in the 690Hz range, or white noise, or something that
>>                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^     
>>>moves rapidly (i.e. on a 2ms basis) between the two channels,
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>or so on.
>>
>>Some people's musical taste is strange, indeed!
>
>Oh, you never listen to brushed cymbals close-miked miked 90 degrees apart?
>
>Never heard a recording with "phasing" between the two channels?
>
>Never heard a recording where a violin and viola play in unison
>across the orchestra?
>
>Never listened to a jazz recording with a line of brass spread
>out across the soundfield?
>
>You never listen to electronic music?  You never listen to a
>clarinet playing somewhere around e above middle c?
>
>A harpsichord miked one above one below the soundboard?
>
>Enya's "Shepherd Moon?"  Castanets in "Carmen"?  Gongs, bells,
>glockenspiel, vibes, marimba?
>
>Perhaps your taste is more exclusive than some.

These are all musical signals. The music I like to listen to have 
*non-stationarity* as one of its most dominant and important features.
You proposed to record

	- a pulse train at 630 Hz or so
	- set of non-harmonic tones spaced about 750 Hz apart, starting in
	   the 690Hz range
	- white noise

which are non-musical stationary noise signals constructed to reveal the
weaknesses of the coding scheme in DCC and MD. As such, it's OK. I was
merely trying to make the point that DCC (like any bit-rate reduction coding)
is designed to perform well with real-life signals, not necessarily with 
*any* weird synthetic waveform you might be able to construct.

-- 
** Also sprach harald.ljoeen@nta.no **
From: hsu@acuson.com (William Hsu)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Pro Audio Spectrum 16?
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:30:05 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Acuson; Mountain View, California

phr@telebit.com (Paul Rubin) writes:

>Have any audiophile or live recording buff types done any serious
>listening tests on the Pro Audio Spectrum 16 or comparable products?
>These are Soundblaster-like A/D-D/A boards that plug into a personal
>computer and do CD-like sampling (16 bits, 2 channels, 44.1 khz).
>Prices start around $200.

>Just think, with one of these and a 5 GB Exabyte tape drive,
>you could do bit for bit copies of ten CD's on a $4 videotape
>and not pay any DAT tax.... You wouldn't do *that* now would you though.


Although I am not a live recording buff, but I am an audiophile and own a
ProAudio Spectrum 16.  I didn't do any serious listening tests, but compared
to other PC based soundcard, the ProAudio Spectrum 16 has very low noise.
Other cards (such as the Soundblaster) are plagued by the noisy PC bus, and
you can definitely hear them.  Overall, the output is quite good on the
PAS16, considering that is it a PC-based soundcard.  I don't think it is up
to par with audio gear, even analog tape.

One comment about using this as a recording device.  First of all, you
can't record directly onto a tape drive, unless it can be accessed as a
logical drive and can handle the transfer rate.  What you can do though, is
to record onto a hard drive, and then transfer to tape.  But that means you
must have enough free space on the hard drive to store whatever you want to
record (enough space to record one continuous segment).  If you calculated
how much space you need (2 bytes/sample x 2 channels x 44100 samples/sec) =
172.3 Kbytes/sec.  A four minute long recording would take 40.4 Megs!

Unless you have a LARGE hard drive to spare, it is not practical for normal
recording/playback.  If you want to transfer to tape, then everytime you
want to play something, you must get it off tape first.  My hard drive space
is precious, so that's why I use an normal tape deck.

If you are interesting with PC-based soundcard, there is a net thread
specially devoted to this.  It's comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard

William
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| William Hsu				If it is bug-free, then I haven't     |
| Acuson, Test Engineering		got the chance to test it yet	      |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: tpremo@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Todd Premo)
Subject: a point about the Bose thread
Followup-To:  all this discussion
Summary: just a thought
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:06:04 GMT


I have read some of the articles posted here about the Bose 901 series
speakers.  This is a thread that must come through every year.

I have a simple question to those who are knowledgable about this stuff:

	The Bose 901's are attempting to do something that is 
already being taken care of with the recording- but I have a problem
with this.

	In the recording is going to take the reflected sound as the
time delayed sound that is of a differnt level and direction of last
reflection.  Now we send this signal through our point source speakers
and only get the delay effect comming from the same direction as all
the rest.  Now I know that decent speakers have imaging that essentially 
makes them non-locatable, however, this still does not reproduce the 
original effect.

	Wouldn't it be almost better to make the recording in a studio
that did not allow (or at least minimized) the reflections reaching the
mike and then reproduced them on a speaker that took care of sending the
sound in similar directions as the original source?  Of cource this 
would be a different set of reflections in your home than it would be
in the auditorium, but it would be equivilnt to having that same group in 
playing in your living room.  natural.

	I have not had the experience that many of you have with design
of sound systems.  I am doing a lot of research into the art of speaker
design and have got a few projects under my belt that have turned out OK
for my intent and purpose.  I hope to someday design something that will
be what I like for sound.

	I like the idea that Bose had but agree that the 901's are not 
the probable best way to go about doing this.  I feel that the "best"
was is probably with multiple speakers and some sort of "surround" 
processing.

	My $0.02.  please comment.

	ps.  I own a pair of Bose 901's series I speakers and have already
built speakers that have cost me 1/10 the price and sound "better" to 
my ears.  They probably do not address the "reflecting" portion of the 
music though.....


-- 
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 (___________________________________ %   Todd Premo  
         /              /      /      %   Purdue Universtiy 
       /    __	 __   / __   /        %   Engineering 
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: slegge@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: Re: Sony STR*70 problems not fixed in 
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 04:07:36 GMT

AV> After chatting with Sony several times they finally  
AV> upgraded m to a STR-D1090. While quieter, the noise is still
AV> there. I  m surprised to see such n obvious problem in such a
AV> wide variety of Sony   equipment. I have done the obvious
AV> grounding and filtering of the power line since my wiring is all
AV VERY old (although a Stereo should be immune to power line
AV> noise). Has anyone else encountered this and/or heard of a
AV> solution. I must point out that with the exception of this minor
AV nuisance noise, the STR-D1090 has some wonderful features and is
AV> a nice unit.
 
I bought an STR-AV310 a few years ago and after I had it for a couple 
weeks it developed a similar problem to the one you mentioned.  A
quiet hum.  One afternoon I was listening to some pretty *loud* music
and turned the CD player off when I left (but forgot to turn off the
receiver).  At any rate, when I returned the buzz was pretty loud --
(not deafening, mind you, but there obviously was a serious problem).
 
I called a friend of mine who was head electronic repairman at the
SONY dealer where I bought the item, and he gave me the following 
instructions:
 
It seems the robot at SONY doesn't tighten screws enough and this
was (is?) a *very* common problem with this equipment.  If you take 
the cover off the receiver, the right half (looking at the front) of
the inside is more or less a green circuit board.  In the top and 
bottom left corners of this circuit board component are two screws 
that keep the component in place -- they each have an arrow pointing 
at them drawn on the green surface.  Simply tightening these screws 
(and tighening them *well*) should make the buzz dissappear.
 
I did this once when I first bought the component (about three years
ago) and I had to do it again only recently.
 
Keep in mind that mine is an STR-AV310 receiver (I have no idea if the
same thing applies to all SONY receivers), that doing this type of 
work yourself probably invalidates your warrenty (if you want to get
*technical* ;-) and that I am in no way associated with SONY or any
dealership, and I cannot be held responsible for any explosions or
electricutions that occur because of the above advice. :-)
 
In all seriousness though -- it was a very simple procedure and it 
saved me at least a couple headaches.
 
Stephen Legge
SLEGGE@kean.ucs.mun.ca
 
PS.  I'm an electrician -- so *please* pull out the plug before you
start doing any of this stuff!!
From: BARRON@RHQVM14.VNET.IBM.COM
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 07:57:12 EST
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: A wire with loss
Reply-To: barron@rhqvm14.VNET.IBM.COM

Some have refered to an ideal amp as a wire with gain.

Along with a previous appender, I would like a 'wire with loss'.

This would go directly between my CD player and my amp for
'reference listening'.

Assume my amp and CD have input/output impedances of 50k.

Can I simply use a few 1% resistors and construct a voltage divider?

Anything else I should know?

Organization: Advantis Advanced Technology
Disclaimer: This reflects the poster's views, not those of Advantis
News-Software: Usenet 3.0
X-X-From: Dave Barron

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: roth@3d.enet.dec.com (Jim Roth)
Subject: Re: HDCD ???
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 24 JAN 93 21:57:05    


In article <C1C4sy.5nz@rot.qc.ca>, bruno@rot.qc.ca (Bruno Majewski) writes...

>I hope Sheffield Labs will reissue some of their albums using this 
>technology...

Won't do much good, they only have analog tape masters of the early LAB stuff
that was so amazing.  I only wish I'd bought multiple copies of some of
those back when.  The analog tape masters the CD's are made from are quite
inferior.  On the other hand, I've seen CD's that were supposedly played
from a shellac master of some early Crystal Clear material.  I've never
listened to these, but the 45 rpm albums were amazing in their day.

- Jim
Newsgroups: rec.audio,rec.video
From: aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri)
Subject: Re: LD player endurance as a primarily CD player
Organization: Siemens Corporate Research, Princeton (Plainsboro), NJ
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 15:38:20 GMT


My Pioneer 3090 is kind of inconvenient for playing CD's, and I think my
pre-existing Magnavox (Phillips) CD player has (subjectively) better sound.
-- 

======================================================================8--<
From: hoford@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (John Hoford)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: MD and DCC
Date: 21 Jan 93 20:57:55 GMT
Organization: Cardiothoracic Imaging Research Center

In article <1993Jan20.115434.24420@lut.ac.uk> M.Kwok1@lut.ac.uk (M Kwok) writes:
>For both however, I feel Sony and Philips are wrong in releasing pre-recorded
>MD's and DCC's because all it is, is lossy compressed versions of what is 
>available on CD. What I would do is to buy the CD, and dub it onto the blank
>MD or DCC. Therefore you have the perfect original for use at home and copy on
>the move ( or out of home).

Think of both products as attempts to replace the cassette.
The same way they sell prerecorded cassettes they hope to sell the MD and DCC

My preference is for the MD because even though the quality is lower
the random access and the small size are a big win, but I dont
have many cassettes so the advantage of the dcc is lost on me.

John D. Hoford


Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Subject: Re: how MiniDisc sounds
Reply-To: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 20:38:24 GMT

In article <2787@eagle.ukc.ac.uk>, nm1@ukc.ac.uk (N.McBride) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> I've just had a play with the new Sony MiniDisc walkman
|> player.
|> 
|> Now I wouldn't like to make comparisions with CD, LP, DCC
|> DAT etc as I only heard the thing as a unit ie with it's
|> own headphones, and in isolation.
|> But I can give my opinion on the thing in general in terms
|> of value for money. Here goes for anyone
|> who's interested:
|> 
|> I honestly thought it sounded terrible. Really bad. The
|> treble was just falling apart, timing and `drive'
|> were very poor, and the bass weak. All in all extremely nasty.
|> To me it sounded like the original CD players - but worse.
|> It really did not give as good a sound as a half decent
|> Walkman. I'll be intersted to hear one as part of a hifi.
|> 
|> Now considering that it cost 500 pounds sterling (recordable
|> version) and considering it's a damned site bigger and heavier
|> than a tape walkman, and considering that you could have a 
|> Sony Professional Walkman with a good pair of headphones
|> for less cash, then I ask myself, is anyone going to buy one?

You could buy a portable DAT such as the Sony, Aiwa, Casio, etc.
for around the same price as an MD or DCC player and record ALL
the music instead of just what it decides to record ! Media costs
should also be cheaper ...
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: eomiya@borland.com (Elliot Omiya)
Subject: Re: CD PLAYER not sensing CD...HELP
Originator: eomiya@genghis.borland.com
Organization: Borland International, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:23:23 GMT

I you haven't cleaned the lens, you might want to try that, but on a home
player, that can be a very tricky thing, depending on how the Pioneer was
constructed.

If you like the sound of the CD player, then you might want to have it
checked out and cleaned.  That may fix the problem.

If it doesn't, I'd say you're in the market for a new player.  It's probably
not worth fixing.  IMHO, CD players got better in the last 3 years.

-=<EHO>=-
From: kega@nobeltech.se (Kent Gabrin)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: DAT, DCC and MD
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:37:58 GMT
Organization: NobelTech AB

In article <GLAS.93Jan21081603@muresh.et.tudelft.nl> glas@donau.et.tudelft.nl writes:

...Deleted stuff...

>PASC is based on two phenomena of the human ear:
>* One can only hear sound above a certain level, called the absolute hearing threshold.
>* Loud sounds hide, or mask, softer sounds in their vicinity. They dynamially adapt the
>  hearing threshold. This applies to the frequency domain (spectral masking) as well as to 
>  the tiem domain (temporal masking).
>So you have to be a GOD to hear the differences between CD and DCC.

   I think that PASC and ATRAC is only the first step towards DAB
(Digital Audio Broadcast). Somewhere I read that to enable DAB to a
moving target like a car you must increase the 'lossyness' compression
from 1/4 (DCC) or 1/5 (MD) ratio to something like 1/9 or 1/10.  Last
year experiment was done i Sweden to transmit DAB over the ordinary FM
band. Invited journalists and other with 'golden' ears has reported a
much better sound quality than the analogue way.  Another benefit is
that each FM tranmitter that broadcast the same radio channel can use
the same FM frequency (without interference) and the power (Watts)
required to broadcast is decreased significantly. => Saves energy.

I think it would be interested to hear from someone who knows more
about DAB and how the future is planned.

/Kent

Kent Gabrin   NobelTech Systems    ! My thinking is not as great as
S-175 88 Jaerfaella      Sweden    ! Oliver Berendinus Bumble /Will Try
KEGA@nobeltech.se ! DAT owner. Not planning to move towards DCC/MD
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Subject: Re: DAT, DCC and MD
Reply-To: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua NH
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:08:11 GMT


In article <C19CFs.Fw1@fulcrum.co.uk>, igb@fulcrum.co.uk (Ian G Batten) writes:
|>
|>DAT also requires highly accurate helical scan heads.  These will always
|>be more expensive than fixed heads --- witness the quite high floor for
|>VCR mechanism prices as compared to Cassette mechanisms.

And DCC requires highly accurate thin-film fixed heads.  These also will always
be more expensive than the 4-track heads required for analog cassette
mechanisms.  Philips has had great difficulty getting DCC heads to track
reliably.

--PSW
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: eacj@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Julian Vrieslander)
Subject: Re: Denon or SonyES?
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 04:42:16 GMT

In article <199301221401.AA24054@europa.eng.gtefsd.com> whiting@europa.eng.gtefsd.com (claude whiting) writes:
>I may be purchasing a new cd player shortly and have narrowed my choices down 
>to two manufacturers and three models. These are: 
>
>Sony CDP-X339ES 
>Denon DCD-1560
>Denon DCD-2560
>
>Does anyone own one of these? What are your experiences? The Sony seems to be 
>extremely well built...the Denons less so. Is Denon reliable?

I have the Sony CDP-X339ES.  It was bought to replace a Philips CD-680X,
on which I had installed some standard tweak mods (better op-amps and caps
mostly).  The Philips was a fine sounding machine, but had repeated problems
with the front panel display - te driver/decoder chip for the alphanumeric
display has a habit of blowing out from static pops off my fingers.  That
machine will be sent to my father (who couldn't understand the front panel
display anyway).
 
I selected the Sony because (a) it got some decent reviews in the mags, (b) it
comes with a 3 year warranty, and (c) the internal circuitry is protected
from static discharges by a metal enclosure and partitions.  The Philips
had only a plastic front panel between my fingers and the decoder chip
(incompetent engineering, in my opinion).
 
The Philips unit has been compared aginst a variety of other CD players
and always acquitted itself well.  It has a very detailed and spatious
sound, with just a tiny bit of digital hardness (less than a lot of other
decks).  Compared to the Philips, the X339ES sounds smoother and softer.  A
bit less detail, a bit less spatiousness (what some audio freaks call "air").
The Sony is easier on the ears when bad recordings are played, maybe not so
impressive as the Phillips on very clean recordings.  But quite good.
 
Bear in mind that I have not modified the Sony in any way.  It still
has the same cheap 5532-grade op amps that I yanked from the Philips and
replaced (with Burr Brown OPA2604 chips).  When I have some free time, I
will be upgrading those op-amps in the Sony, and I would not be surprised
if that improves the sound to the level of the Philips deck, and maybe better.
 
Operationally, the Sony is a pleasure to use.  The front panel and remote
controls are logical and legible.  The transport looks pretty rugged.  The
machine looks attractive.  The manual is understandable, as these things go.
Another thing I like about Sony, is that you can easily obtain service
manuals, schematics and parts.  Philips has given me hassles in the past.
 
I have no info on the Denons, other than a recollection that they have
often been recommended by others on the net.
-- 
Julian Vrieslander 
Neurobiology & Behavior, Mudd Hall, Cornell University, Ithaca NY 14853    
INTERNET: eacj@theory.tc.cornell.edu     BITNET: eacj@crnlthry
UUCP: ..cornell!batcomputer!eacj
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Subject: Re: Headphone recommendations (again, but different)
Reply-To: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 18:32:08 GMT

Try Sennhesier if you are looking for an open air headphone.
They are used by a lot of pro studios. I have one (I forget the
model #) and I can wear it for several hours without discomfort.
The sound is very clean and neutral. My only complaint is that
the low end is a bit faint, but this is true of most open-air
headphones. 
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: phr@telebit.com (Paul Rubin)
Subject: Re: Digital vs Analogue, Yet Again!
Organization: Telebit Corporation; Sunnyvale, CA, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 05:35:39 GMT

    I envy my musicial suitemate who listens to and really enjoys his Sony
    box (nothing wrong with it inherently, just not overly impressive).
    My taste tends to keep my wallet empty too.

I found as I got more experienced with listening to music, I cared less
about the audio.  Now I do most of my listening through a $25 monophonic
radio cassette player.
From: rgonzal@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Ralph Gonzalez)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: WANTED: cheap new or used tuner
Keywords: tuner
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:03:38 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


I need a cheap (preferably under $50!) slimline or half-width tuner.
It will be used with a cable connection, so reception isn't an issue,
though (digital) presets would be nice.

Anyone see anything cheap in Damark recently, or have a used one
they want to get rid of?

Please email: rgonzal@elbereth.rutgers.edu
Thanks, 
Ralph

PS: If you want to sell me a used Creek tuner, I'll make a higher
offer.
-- 
Ralph Gonzalez, Computer Science, Rutgers Univ., Camden, NJ
Phone: (609) 225-6122; Internet: rgonzal@elbereth.rutgers.edu
--
From: myers@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Myers)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 00:00:40 GMT
Subject: Re: Comments on analog music
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA