From: llyons@next.com (Liza Lyons)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Increasing Control on a Hot Event Horse
Date: 12 Aug 92 00:03:36 GMT

Thanks so much to everyone's comments and suggestions (and explanations of the  
difference between French Training Snaffles and Dr. Bristols)!!  For the most  
part, ideas fell into two camps:  1) various bit suggestions (with the majority  
of you suggesting a slow twist snaffle) and 2) suggestions that we "go back to  
the basics on the flat."  I'm really intrigued by all of the input, and did  
want to clarify a few points to see if I can get a little bit more specific  
info with regards to my problem.

First, given that we compete in horse trials, we divide up 6 days of  
training/week between dressage, conditioning (mild at this level :-), stadium,  
cross counrty and a little hacking so mom doesn't go crazy from all the  
structure!  I'd say we do the least cross counrty - maybe once every other week  
- and the most dressage.  Kinsale's dressage work (and conditioning) is lovely:   
soft and round.  

For stadium, my trainer focuses the majority of our time on gymnastic lines and  
various combinations (using placement poles) that emphasize control,  
responsiveness and accuracy.  Excercises often include halting between fences  
on the line, and the use of lines that have 2 curving options for the last  
fence (one to the right and one to the left) to work on having collected little  
ponies who wait for instructions from the rider on which way to go:-)  We do  
complete courses fairly infrequently (again, once every other week unless  
competing), and when we do, we often begin with trotting between fences,  
halting between fences and so forth.  

The problem:  Kinsale *loves* to jump and gallop (he also began his career on  
the track).  When we condition, he is extremely well balanced, round and  
responsive even when going fairly forward (400 - 500 mm).  He is also all of  
these things when working on lines and regimented jumping excercises.  When  
confronted with fences going cross counrty, or fences in a complete stadium  
round, he becomes extremely strong (believe it or not:  he's worse on this  
score in stadium than he is on cross counrty.  He'll easily come back to me to  
trot water and so forth, but he can be a monster in stadium).  

And yes, in answer to one question, this behavior is reproducable with my  
trainer.  In answer to another related question "why do I *let* him get that  
fast in stadium?" well, this is the essence of my problem :-)  Kinsale can  
approach a downhill stadium fence in balance at a controlled pace, but be in  
"barrel racing mode" after only 2 strides on the other side.  Now, I have  
*never* had a horse point-blank take off with me and Kinsale wouldn't get far  
if this was his plan.  Believe me, in my nice, thick snaffle I can stop this  
horse on a dime.  But this is not the objective when all he needs is a little  
more respect for half-halts when he's having too much fun to slow down !

The other problem (the more I thought about it, the more I think it might be an  
issue):  my trainer views Kinsale as a "control horse."  She often coaches me  
to "let him take care of me" when going cross country or around stadium  
courses.  She thinks he's a blast to ride since he's such a jumping machine.  I  
think her logic behind the suggested change in bit or bridle is:  while we have  
to continue working on our partnership, I need to let him "be in charge" as  
much as possible.  I'm not sure if I'm even making sense, but this is at the  
root of the isse.  She doesn't want to see me "overriding him," just being more  
effective - and therefore less obtrusive - with what I need to contribute to  
our jumping efforts.  

The reason I'm reluctant to look towards a gag or running martingale for help  
is simple:  Kinsale never avoids the bit.  A gag helps rasie the poll on horses  
that tend to bury their heads and pull (I've seen this bridle work miracles  
with a big, fat snaffle on a warmblood who would arch his neck, buck and take  
off after cross counrty fences while wearing a pelham).  Martingales help - as  
I understand them - whith horses that tend to raise their heads (you see alot  
of this action in Grand Prix jumping).

I think I'm going to try a thinner, solid snaffle as a first step towards  
turning up the volume on the control.  Basically, I just need a subtle  
adjustment - I hope - to get the response I'm seeking.  If this doesn't work,  
I'll try a Dr. Bristol.  While all the suggestions about ground work and the  
basics are helpful, I really feel that we're addressing these in our regular  
training program.  Beyond that, I'll let you know what happens and welcome any  
other opinions !! 

Liza Lyons and Kinsale

> This definitely sound like a flat-work problem, not a jumping problem.  
> I agree with the earlier post that said go back to basics.  Until the horse  
can
> canter up and down rolling terrain maintaining a basic balanced frame, you
> can't expect him to jump properly on rolling terrain.
> 
> Novice stadium speeds are around 350mpm - that's hardly top speed.  If he's 
> not running off with you, why do you let him get that fast?  I always warm-up
> with lots of halt/trot transitions for stadium to get the horse on his  
haunches.
> Don't forget when riding the course your objective must be to use the space
> between fences to balance and control - ie. bring him back to trot *before*
> you start down the hill, balance your canter *before* you turn the corners  
etc.
> 
> This may be a simple 'respect' problem, so be insistent.  Has your trainer  
had
> the same trouble when riding him?
> 
> >
> >Given his basic sensitivity, I'm reluctant to step up the bit or bridle.  My  
> >trainer mentioned a Dr. Bristol or a gag. 
> 
> My coach (Jamie Smart) has a philosophy about bits..... First, the snaffle 
> isn't as 'gentle' as everyone makes it out to be if you know how to use it.
> Most horses find a non-jointed bit more comfortable and these straight bits  
do
> have a 'milder' action.  Second, he believes he could stop *any* horse in an
> ordinary jointed snaffle.  He thinks gags have too much of a distracting  
action
> on a horse (head up, hollow back) and that pelhams have leverage, but make
> pullers.  His fail-safe method of stopping a horse - virtually on a dime -
> consists of a short pulley rein to use the nutcracker action of the bit, 
> compounded with body weight leverage.  And it *really* works.  Face it, you
> can't win a tug of war with something that weighs 10x as much as you, so you
> have to out-smart them.  I've found that once horses have felt the pulley  
rein
> a couple of times, they give up trying to beat it - a bit like snapping a
> choker chain on a dog.
> 
> I like your idea of a running martingale.  I always school stadium *without*
> one, but compete *with* one.  Lucinda Green gives annual clinics here and 
> feels that a whip, spurs and a running martingale should be standard part of
> your tack - then they're there if you need them.
> 
> 
> Good luck sorting this out - let us know what tricks you come up with :-)
> 
> 	Sue Grocott