HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: msquared@tc.fluke.COM (Mark Mullins)
Subject: Info wanted on kids' parties
Keywords: kids, parties
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:32:12 GMT

I'm looking for suggestions for a party for seven-year old twin boys.  We're
already considering the "usual" (Chuck E Cheese, Discovery Zone, trashing
our house, etc.), but would like to hear any suggestions that have worked for
others.  Has anybody used a magician or a clown that was really great?  

We're located in Mill Creek (just south of Everett), so don't suggest any
acts that think Edmonds is somewhere near Alaska.

Thanks!

- Mark Mullins
  John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc.
 
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: dbj@cs.washington.edu (Dave Johnson)
Subject: Re: HUSKIES vs OREGON TIX FOR SALE
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 15:27:23 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.044127.21550@u.washington.edu> hhll@stein.u.washington.edu (Steven Hodas) writes:
>I have two unreserved end-zone seats for the homecoming game against Oregon
>State on November 14. Best offer by Friday gets them.

Okay, pay me $10 and I'll take 'em.

(rim shot)
-- 
  Dave Johnson

"You're not too smart, are you?  I like that in a man."
    --Kathleen Turner in Body Heat 
Xref: sparky seattle.general:3609 pnw.general:2682 alt.society.anarchy:686
From: robs@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert Sipe)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Term Limits Initiative
Date: 5 Nov 92 00:21:09 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Boeing

In article <4095@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert J. Hall) writes:
>With the (presumed) passage of the Washington Term Limits initiative, I was
>wondering about the prospects of this law being overturned in the courts?
>
>Anybody have a clue?
>
>-- 
> Bob Hall                   |
> Boeing Computer Services   |  Behind every dark cloud,
> root@chicken.ca.boeing.com |  there's a Seattle Skyline.

   I have a question re: this issue too.  If it is constitutional for 
the presidential position why would it be unconstitutional for other
elections?  I know Foley claims that it would be and Arizona has ruled
that it is.  Seems like a contridiction!











-- 
Statement made by Oliver North when asked to comment on Clinton's draft
record.  "I would rather vote for Jane Fonda than Gov. Clinton!  At least
she has been to North Vietnam."
From: tzs@carson.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Term Limits Initiative
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:36:16 GMT
Organization: University of Washington School of Law, Class of '95

bobk@gibdo.engr.washington.edu (Bob) writes:
>  The Washington term limits initiative, along with most of the other
>  term-limits proposals, stands on firm legal ground.

A lot of Constitutional experts don't agree with this.  The New York
Times had a long article on this a month or so ago, and I don't remember
any big-name Constitutional experts saying that these kind of
amendments were on firm ground.

For an argument that they are on very shakey ground, see "Congressional
Term Limits: Unconstitutional By Initiative" in the April 1992 Washington
Law Review (which should be be easy for anyone at UW to find).

--Tim Smith
From: das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Wanted: Post election comments on Prop. 9
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:38:03 GMT
Organization: Yet Another Graphics Project, Bellevue, WA


In article <2834@uswnvg.uswnvg.com> jstaffe@uswnvg.com (Jarrod Staffen) writes:
>
>Very well put, Christopher! You're absolutely right on target.  I get so
>frustrated when the ignorant try to tell us that they know for a fact
>that homosexuality is premeditated or decided.  I am very close to a number
>of homosexuals, including my own brother, ang have discussed the issue of
>choice with them.  Most of them start out hating themselves because of the
>attraction they feel towards their own gender, while being told left and
>right that such feelings are perverse.  My brother tried to be heterosexual,
>but it was as repulsive to him as I think it would be for me to be gay.
>
A question for those who think sexuality is a 'choice':  this is a society 
where, as Jarrod says, homosexuals are constantly being told that such
feelings are perverse, where they can't walk down the street holding the hand
of the person they love because they'll probably be harassed or worse, where
they can't marry the person they love, where they've often been denied housing
and jobs if they're open about who they are.  I ask those of you who think
that sexuality is a choice, why in the world do you think that anyone would
voluntarily make such a choice?
------
Debbie Schwartz // das@voodoo.ca.boeing.com  // or uunet!bcstec!voodoo!das 
                           
                 "Hatred is not a family value"
Xref: sparky seattle.general:3631 pnw.general:2703
From: anamioka@bcsaic.boeing.com (Aki Namioka)
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.general
Subject: Government Technology Policy
Keywords: CPSR/Seattle, Policy and Government
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:36:00 GMT
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle


** PLEASE POST ** PLEASE POST ** PLEASE POST ** PLEASE POST ** PLEASE POST **

				CPSR/Seattle
	      Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility

				PUBLIC TALK

		       "Government Technology Policy"
		Gary Chapman - Director 21st Century Project

			       November 16th
				    7:30

		     University Friends Meeting Center
				4001 9th NE
				  Seattle

				  ABSTRACT

Government "technology policy" has been a controversial issue in the 1992
Presidential campaign, with sharp differences between the two major party
candidates, George Bush and Bill Clinton.  While Bush argued for a
continuation of his administration's largely laissez-faire approach, Bill
Clinton proposed an ambitious six-point program for supporting technology
with government programs and funding.

Gary Chapman, coordinator of the 21st Century Project, a program of Computer
Professionals for Social Responsibility, will review the controversy and
discuss the direction of the winning candidate's technology policy.  This
review will be accompanied by an assessment of the forces that are likely to
be brought into play to accomplish this program, and a critique of the
government's approach for supporting technology.  Chapman will also discuss
The 21st Century Project, which is aimed at reforming government technology
policy to make it more democratic, peaceful, and environmentally sound.


			     ABOUT THE SPEAKER

Gary Chapman is director of the Cambridge office of Computer Professionals
for Social Responsibility and coordinator of the 21st Century Project. He
was executive director of Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility
from 1985 to 1991.  Chapman was co-editor of the 1987 book, Computers in
Battle: Will They Work?, which won runner-up as Best Computer Book of the
Year by the National Computer Press Association.  The book has been
translated into Italian and Japanese.  Chapman is president of the board of
directors of ACCESS, an international security information service based in
Washington, D.C.  He has served on advisory boards for the National Science
Foundation, the Congressional Office of Technology Assessment, and the
National Center for Research on Computers and Society. His article on
technology policy and the 1992 Presidential election is the cover story of
the November 1992 issue of Technology Review magazine, published by MIT.

			  Suggested Donation $2.00

For more information call: Douglas Schuler - 865-3832 (days) 632-1659 (eves)

** PLEASE POST ** PLEASE POST ** PLEASE POST ** PLEASE POST ** PLEASE POST **
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: bill@Celestial.COM (Bill Campbell)
Subject: Re: Travel agent rec. requested
Organization: Celestial Software, Mercer Island, WA
Distribution: seattle
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1992 06:50:32 GMT

In <3297@voodoo.UUCP> jdt@voodoo.boeing.com (Jim Tomlinson) writes:


>We're trying to plan a spring break trip to Hawaii (the Big Island),
>and are a little daunted by the choices.  Does anyone have a travel
>agent in the Ballard/N. Seattle area they could recommend to help us
>out?  Also, are there any places you'd recommend we visit/stay at while
>there?  Please post or email; much thanks in advance.

I've had very good experience with Scott Cobb at Corporate Travel
Consultants 527-2111.  He has always gone out of his way when
I've needed tickets, both on price and service.  When I needed to
get back to the east coast after my father had a stroke, I called
him at 9:00 on Monday morning and he had me $250.00 tickets by
11:00 for the red-eye that evening.

His office is on Lake Unios.

Bill
-- 
INTERNET:  bill@Celestial.COM   Bill Campbell; Celestial Software
UUCP:   ...!thebes!camco!bill   6641 East Mercer Way
             uunet!camco!bill   Mercer Island, WA 98040; (206) 947-5591
SPEED COSTS MONEY -- HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO?
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: aberman@cs.washington.edu (Andrew Berman)
Subject: Re: Term Limits and Abortion
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 00:34:01 GMT

In article <MS-C.721091783.377401575.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> Mark Crispin <mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> writes:
>I find it bizarre and not a little bit disgusting that we have people howling
>for the courts to overturn the Term Limits Initiative on the grounds that
>somehow, with some suspension of disbelief, it can be `unconstitutional.'
...
>
>In both cases, we are dealing with sore losers who are unwilling to accept the
>verdict of the people.  They are seeking to use the courts as a way to impose
>their own political viewpoint.  There is a word for this.  That word is
>dictatorship.

I completely disagree.  The constitution has several functions.  One of them
is to protect the people from the government.  Another, equally important,
is to protect the people from the people.

Have you ever heard the phrase "tyranny of the majority?"  We need the
constitution and the court system to -slow-down- populist changes.
Would you make the same argument if the people pass an anti-gay law?
How about one mandating seperate water fountains? Or a return to
the death penalty for stealing?  How about slavery?  Every one of
these these potential laws would have received a strong majority
vote at one time or another.

Term limits is a completely appropriate case.  I see the argument for
term limits.  On the other hand, I feel that I should have the right to
vote for whomever I want, and that any law against that is an abrogation
those rights. 

I think people don't realize how things like "term limits" could be
abused. Suppose a state legislature somewhere goes a bit futher?
Suppose a Democratic state legislature one year gets sick of the fact
that most of it's representatives and both senators are Republican and
passes a law stating that no current congressman could run for
re-election?  It's stuff like this which makes me wonder about the
constitutionality of term limits.  And that's why its completely fair
game to bring it up in the Federal Court system.

Look, if you don't like your congressman, why vote for him/her?
I find it completely hypocritical that people voted for term limits
while re-electing most incumbents.  I think what these people *really*
want is term limits for everyone else's congressmen.


>The courts should not be in the business of making law, or of breaking it.  A
>law is overturned only if it is made by a lessor body in defiance of a higher
>law.  The highest law is ultimately the US Constitution itself, and its
>amendment process.

Exactly.  And it's perfectly reasonable to examine all laws in that light.
(Marbury Vs. Madison)

Andrew Berman



-- 
Andrew P. Berman           |  "I have no idea what White House statement was
Dept. of Computer Science  |  was issued, but I stand by it 100 percent"
University of Washington   |    -- Richard Darman
aberman@cs.washington.edu  |
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: baron@halcyon.com (Joseph L Portman III)
Subject: Wanted - 4BM SIMMS
Followup-To: baron@halcyon.com
Summary: I need 16MB of 4MB simms (70ns) or better
Keywords: wanted chips simms memory
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Distribution: seattle
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:21:01 GMT



Hello out there in netland. 
I am looking for a cheap source of 4MB 70ns SIMMS.
I need 4 right away. If you have any, or know of
a place to acquire them at a reasonable cost, please
reply by e-mail to baron@halcyon.com.

Thank you,

Joe Portman
-- 

-----------------------------
Joe Portman
baron@halcyon.halcyon.com
From: oster@sleepy.UUCP (Ken Oster)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Term Limits Initiative
Summary: term limits consitutionality
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:50:55 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle

In article <4105@bcstec.ca.boeing.com>, robs@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert Sipe) writes:
> In article <4095@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert J. Hall) writes:
> >With the (presumed) passage of the Washington Term Limits initiative, I was
> >wondering about the prospects of this law being overturned in the courts?
> >Anybody have a clue?
>
>    I have a question re: this issue too.  If it is constitutional for 
> the presidential position why would it be unconstitutional for other
> elections?  I know Foley claims that it would be and Arizona has ruled
> that it is.  Seems like a contridiction!
> 
The deal is that the Presidential Term Limit was a U.S. Constitutional Amendment.
It cannot be argued to be unconstitutional if it is now part of the constitution.
Term Limits Initiatives do not have the same authority as amendments.  They may
prove to be an unfair restriction to candidates eligibility.  It seems if 14 states
could pass them on Tuesday, we could do this with a consitutional amendment easily.

Our new Pres-Elect though for some reason is against them....

Ken O
-- 
----------------------------------------------------
Ken Oster               oster@sleepy.ns.cs.boeing.com
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: jewell@Data-IO.COM (Cal Jewell)
Subject: Re: Term Limits Initiative
Organization: Data I/O Corporation
Distribution: seattle
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:14:07 GMT

In article <4105@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> robs@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert Sipe) writes:
#In article <4095@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert J. Hall) writes:
#>With the (presumed) passage of the Washington Term Limits initiative, I was
#>wondering about the prospects of this law being overturned in the courts?
#>
#
#   I have a question re: this issue too.  If it is constitutional for 
#the presidential position why would it be unconstitutional for other
#elections?  I know Foley claims that it would be and Arizona has ruled
#that it is.  Seems like a contridiction!

The Presidential term limit (2 full 4-year terms) is written into the
Constitution via Ammendment.

There is no EXPLICIT Constitutional restriction on the number of terms 
a Congresscritter can serve. Sure, there is a clause in the Constitution
that says that States can determine the "matter" of election of
their Senators and Representatives. But the Constitution doesn't spell
out a specific limit on the number of terms or years a Congreesscritter
can serve. And this is where term limits come in.

Look for this issue to come to a court near you. Any bets on which
state will be the first to overturn term limits?

-- 
Cal...                        "Mountain Dew and doughnuts:
                               because breakfast is the most
jewell@Data-IO.COM             important meal of the day."
From: randall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Michael Randall)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Hi.
Date: 5 Nov 92 00:32:18 GMT
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle

In article <1992Oct30.060240.13304@ssc.com>, markz@ssc.com (Mark Zenier) writes:
> Tracy E. Finifter (finifter@gandalf.rutgers.edu) wrote:
> : Gee, if I had known I'd get this reaction when I posted my note, I wouldn't
> : have posted it!
> 
> Just wait until you get here and can catch a ring side seat of the 
> local sport of "California Bashing".  (The definition of 
> Californian is broad enough to cover all the way to the
> east coast.)  There's a local newspaper columnist (a local) 
> who has a long running joke about his (fictional) organization, 
> the KBO.  (Keep the Bastards Out).
[ cut down version ]
> Mark Zenier  markz@ssc.wa.com  
> And the supposed Mellowness of the locals is myth by immigrants
> who mistook tolerant insularity for acceptance.  And now it's
> feeling crowded enough that we can't ignore things.

Ok, I just had to comment. (FYI I was born in Seattle... toward the end of
the 50's). It somehow doesn't matter to most local's that the majority of
people moving here from out of state are from Oregon. Or that lots of those
from Oregon, keep their Oregon license plates (because they don't feel that
the law applies to them I guess) and they don't want to help pay for road 
improvements etc. There is also Lesser Seattle Inc. on the list of KBO
types. (Excuse me while I ramble) One of the main reasons for the bad
traffic here is the water. There just isn't any "alternate routes" most
places, because we can't spread roads out in some directions (due to Puget
Sound, and the lakes). Another being that the Freeways aren't wide enough
and they are being widened "too little, too late". Then there is the custom
of not letting anyone get in front of you. All to many drivers here will
speed up when you try to merge onto the Freeway in front of them (and the
person behind them will do the same... etc, etc). But there are some folks
out there who do remember courtesy, and will let you in, or stop and see if
you need help when you break down. But DON'T shout obscenities, or make
gestures at people you are not friends with around here. Unlike
East-Coasters, some of the folks here will attempt to do you bodily harm for
such silliness. (I think it's a sport back east).
-- 
-------------------- Peace Love & E-Mail ---------------------------------
  Michael W. Randall             |   There is no problem which cannot 
  randall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com   |   be solved with a sufficient 
   ...!uunet!bcstec!randall      |   amount of High Explosives.
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: wix@eskimo.celestial.com (Dennis Wicks)
Subject: Re: Hi.
Summary: It ain't that bad, yet!
Organization: >>> Eskimo North (206)-FOR-EVER <<<
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 18:04:48 GMT

In article <crystal.721177759@glia> crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Crystal) writes:
>In <1992Nov1.090336.1489@u.washington.edu> tzs@stein.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) writes:
>
>>witters@tc.fluke.COM (John Witters) writes:
>>>Seattle has inherited many features of more famous cities:  Gridlock hour
>>>looks much the same here as it does in Los Angeles.
 "Gridlock" is actually what occurs at controlled intersections, ie. 
 those with traffic signals, when the people with the green light
 can't get through the intersection because it is blocked by those
 that now have a red light.  It became "famous" in NY City where the
 short cross-town blocks and the long up/down-town blocks make it
 nearly impossible to synchronize the lights in either direction.
>>There's a big difference, though.  In Los Angeles, your destination might
>>easily be twenty or thirty miles away, all of it gridlocked.  That's much
>>more annoying.
>
>>--Tim Smith
>
>I just couldn't let this go without comment - especially after driving in
>Los Angeles for several days a week or so ago..
>
Me neither.  I had the "priviledge" of living in Stamford, CT, a
suburb of NYC, for a little over four years.

For a while I was making regular trips between Cranford, NJ and
Stamford.  It was not unusual to find a half mile of cars at a dead
stop on the Cross-Bronx Expressway, at 3:00AM!!

Finally couldn't stand it anymore.  Left Stamford with two U-Haul
trucks and a car at about 1:00 on a sunny July afternoon.  Got to the
George Washington Bridge about 5:30.  For those of you that aren't
familiar with the area, that is a distance of ~30 miles!  That is an
average speed of something like 7 mph!

So, if you think this area is bad, or "Just like ...," it isn't that
bad yet, by a heck of a long ways!  Why do you think the people from
where-ever want to move here?
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: hhll@stein.u.washington.edu (Steven Hodas)
Subject: HUSKIES vs OREGON TIX FOR SALE
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 04:41:27 GMT

I have two unreserved end-zone seats for the homecoming game against Oregon
State on November 14. Best offer by Friday gets them.

Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: tzs@carson.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith)
Subject: Asshole Driver Award
Organization: University of Washington School of Law, Class of '95
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 08:20:48 GMT

Yesterday I witnessed the most obnoxious thing I've ever personally seen
a driver do.  This topped anything I saw in ten years of living in Pasadena
and four years of living in the Bay Area.

This bozo pulled into a handicapped parking space, got out of his car,
*pulled* *the* *handicapped* *sign* *out* *of* *the* *ground*, and went
off go wherever he was going!

By the time I got back with security guards to nail this person, he
had left.  He didn't even put back the sign when he left.


--Tim Smith
From: vanzwol@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Ted Van Zwol)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Term Limits Initiative
Date: 6 Nov 92 17:29:49 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Boeing

In article <1992Nov5.155934.13423@u.washington.edu> monaghan@cac.washington.edu (Tracy Monaghan ) writes:
>representative.  The constitution was amended to limit the president to
>two terms.  To limit US senator and representative terms would also take
>an amendment to the constitution.  It is possible for a state to limits
>its (state) elected officials.  Of course, in theory, the voters can
>always limit the terms of their representatives by voting them out of office.


I don't normally throw in my two bits on political issues...but, coming from
this beautiful state and wanting our representatives to be heard just as
strongly as the rest...

I think that term limits on a national level may be just the thing.  But, I
have strong concern having some states implementing limits and others not.
I fear that the good ole boy network will keep working among the non-limited
incumbents.  I fear that having a new wipper-snapper coming into the seat
every six years may not be heard over the other well-established representatives
whom may wish to pass bills that are not in Washington's interest.  If you have
a great representative for the state doing his/her job well and protecting our
interests, I don't see why at the state level he/she should be limited.  We
can always vote them out of office!

I find it ironic that in the 14 states that passed the initiative, most of them
re-elected the incumbants.  It's the "we need to limit these bastards; but ours
is doing OK" syndrome.  I don't think that all people realize that when they're
voting for these limits, it's at the state level affecting only those that they
can re-elect or not next time.

With the current system and the new addition of term limits in this state, we
are going to need reps that are stronger leaders, more articulate and 
persuasive than ever if we wish to have our voice heard above the old timers.

-- 
Ted C Van Zwol                           |    Genius does what it must,
uucp:      {...!}uunet!bcstec!vanzwol    |    Talent does what it can.
internet:  vanzwol@bcstec.boeing.com     |                  -Emerson
Newsgroups: seattle.general