HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: soufi@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Khaled S. Soufi)
Subject: Re: Pleasure Marriages
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 04:20:05 GMT

Despite all of the losses inflicted on most of the Lebanese people, it
has always been my feelings that the under-represented Shi'a of
Lebanon emerged as the only victors (if we can call it that way) of
the bloody conflict.  Either way you look at it, they have definitely
gained a significant weight in the government and they are finally a
force to reckon with.  Nowhere this was more obvious than in the
momentus creation of the Janoub "South" ministry back then with Nabih
Birri and the Amal group.  

Of course, this means big trouble for people like Mr. Karam and those
who normally share his views.  These Shi'a are all of a sudden an
obstacle, I mean, can you imagine?  Karam's ancestors were trying to
pave the way for him to be in the driver seat in Lebanon!  They tried
to make sure that these Shi'a would be kept quiet and subservient.
Well, it is not the case anymore, unfortunately for our friend Karam!
His post is a simple manifestation of how pissed with the situation he
simply is.  If you doubt what I say, just watch, for example, how he
he avoided Mr.  Jrad's challenge of providing evidence/references to
the contents of the article he posted!  Mr. Karam is simply ignorant
and I suggest to the good people out there not to waste their time
discussing this crappy article of his because he himself doesn't know
what he is talking about.

By the way, I remember a Michel Karam who was the representative of
the "Kataeb" at AUB.  I remember he ran away to the OCP in 1983 (not
very sure about the date) after he was involved in some violent
incidents that took place on campus.  That was not the end of it.  I
remember that Michel Karam kept making obcsene phone calls to all the
Shi'a AUB students some of whom were close friends of mine.  I
actually picked up the PBX phone one time and struck a really weird
conversation with that Karam.  He just kept cussing at me thinking I
was Shi'a using the most deragatory terms anyone would ever hear in
one's lifetime!  I finally told him that I am not Shi'a; he stopped
and baldly asked me if I would go and call a Shi'a student who used to
live on the same floor at Kerr Hall for him.  Of course I just hung
up.  Was that you Michel?  or is it one of your relatives?  Did you go
to AUB?  Because if you are the guy I think you are, then there is
even a stronger case against your obvious bias in your post!

-- 
+-----------Khaled Soufi-------------+--------------------------+
|   Department of Computer Science   | email: soufi@cs.uiuc.edu |
| U. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign | phone: (217)244-2274 (W) |
+------------------------------------+--------------------------+
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: On Aoun (was Re: Are Arabs incompetent)
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:16:57 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Apr09.153612.17823@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>In article <1992Apr6.121215.26516@njitgw.njit.edu> elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr4.224201.7864@ctr.columbia.edu> sion@sioux.ctr.columbia.edu (Boudi Sahyoun) writes:
>>>In article <1992Apr4.223320.7776@ctr.columbia.edu> sion@sioux.ctr.columbia.edu (Boudi Sahyoun) writes:
>>>
>>>>And regarding the issue of Aoun serving Irak in contradiction with the
>>>>interests of Lebanon, the statement remains to be proven. To me it is not
>>>>clear that Aoun's actions were dictated by Irak or that they were against
>>>>Lebanon's interest. Surely you are not saying that the liberation of Lebanon
>>>>and getting rid of the is against the Lebanese interest.
>>>                    ^^^^^^^
>>>                    militias
>>>
>>>Boudi
>>
>>
>>No ya Boudi, read between the lines.
>>I think what Basil was trying to say is that Aoun should have
>>allied himself strictly with France because France is democratic and
>>does not have the human rights abuses found in Arab countries.
>>I think we should get Lebanon to join the EEC.
>>
>>Jokingly yours, 
>>Elie.
>
>I don't ignore that most of the Arab countries are not democratic. But believe
>me, the EEC will not consider joining Lebanon or any other arabic country to 
>their market just for the simple reason that none of these countries is industrial.
>
>Nabil


Hmmm if Cyprus is able to start the process of becoming a member of the
EEC I see no problems with Lebanon doing the same. 

Regards, Elie.

PS: Sorry guys for no reply but I was in Montreal.
From: elie@hdtv.tmc.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: On Lebanon (was Re: post)
Date: 14 Apr 92 10:03:53 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1187.29e9b16b@mbcl.rutgers.edu> fadel@mbcl.rutgers.edu writes:
>La France et les Libanais.
>Je m'addresse a ceux qui pretendent etre francais et oublient leurs origines.
>Les Francais s'en foutent completement de nous, comme tous les autres
>occidentaux par ailleurs. On est Libanais avant tout!!! On a detruit le Liban
>car on ne l'a pas respecte.Oublions l'Iran, la Syrie, la France,les Etats-Unis,
>et pensons d'abord au Liban.Il va falloir rebatir en ignorant les differents
>religieux et les influences etrangeres et peut etre qu'un jour, le Liban nous
>pardonnera de l'avoir bafoue.  

I believe that is specifically what I am asking for. 

You see, I see nothing wrong in your article, even if you included 
"oublions les Arabes aussi, pensons Libanais".

If you are directing your article to me, tell me where I pretended to be
French. ? I said I don't want to be an Arab. And that post was directed
to Walid Saba who was praising the (rumoured) new Iraki-Syrian entente. 
Walid Saba said that this entente is what "nationalist" Arabs have been 
waiting for. He even went further to say, that BY DEFAULT, Lebanon will
be aligned on the same axis. 

Also how can one ignore Syria (our Arab neighbor) when they in fact occupy 
Lebanon and are running things and have their own long term agenda
concerning the Lebanon.

Regards, Elie.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: gmarkari@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Georges Z Markarian)
Subject: JUST A JOKE!
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:23:28 GMT


I carefully thought about this for a long, long time before I decided to post 
this article because I'll probably get hammered for even telling this joke. 
Just remember one thing before you start attacking me I did not invent this one
but rather just repeating what I heard from some American colleagues.

     A scientist walked into a brain bank one day in an effort to buy a brain
     to do some research regarding neuronal connections.
     One of the sales representatives showed him the only two brains that were
     available and told him:" The brain on the right is priced at one million
     dollars whereas the one on the left is only 500,000 dollars"
     The scientist carefully looked at the two brains and failed to see any
     major anatomical difference. So he asked the sales rep.:" I really don't
     see any difference between the two, but could you tell me why one is so
     much more expensive than the other?" and the sales rep. answered:" the
     expensive brain is brand new; it belonged to an arab who never used it
     while the cheap brain belonged to an israeli who used it extensively
     and we couldn't possibly sell you a used brain for the same price as a
     new one"

My comment:
If the whole world feels this way about Arabs then I think that it's about time
that Arabs do something constructive to erase this image that they've created 
for themselves.

Best regards.
Georges Markarian
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: RED CROSS WORKER FOUND STABBED TO DEATH IN SOUTH LEBANON
Date: 7 Apr 92 11:54:42 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.


beirut(april 2) xinhua - a lebanese red cross worker was found stabbed to death
after being missing for 18 hours, security sources said today. 
  the body, naked and bearing red scars that indicated torture, was dumped on a
beach in sidon, south lebanon, said the sources on condition of anonymity. 
   there was no immediate report of a motive in the slaying. the dead was
identified as claude matta, 34, a christian, who had worked as a relief worker
since 1976. 
   matta's body was discovered 18 hours after his family reported him missing,
said the sources. 
   they said the red scars on his body might have been from whipping. matta had
no military or religious affiliations associated with lebanon's 1975-1990 civil
war, according to the sources.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Re: The racist Mr. Mourad (was Re: Bottom Line: Arabs Are Incompetent (was Re: Are Arabs incompetent))
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 13:08:29 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.160449.16461@ctr.columbia.edu> sion@sioux.ctr.columbia.edu (Boudi Sahyoun) writes:
>In article <1992Apr09.152842.17564@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>
>>If you are not
>>Arabs then don't speak Arabic. Speak French!!!
>
>Who told you we spoke Arabic? :-) :-) 
>We speak Lebanese!

Thank you for the clarification.

>
>
>
>
From: ali@koala.inria.fr (Ali Atie)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: JUST A JOKE
Date: 17 Apr 92 08:36:53 GMT


I suggest that Mr. Kharian Mu Darian use his brain to liberate 
Armenia, his beloved country, since there will be no place
in Lebanon to racist refugees like him.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: jrad@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (ahmad.m.jrad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Pleasure Marriages
Date: 9 Apr 92 18:17:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Apr6.215519.14925@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, at392@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michel M. Karam) writes:
>
> [snip] 
>
> The traditional split between the two main sects of Islam also embraces
> 'pleasure marriages.' Sunnis claim that Mohammed annulled the practice because
> the great Islamic wars were over and soldiers were no longer away from their
> wives. The Shias claim that Mohammed condoned 'pleasure marriages' and that it
> was the second caliph, Omar, who overturned the Koran-approved practice, and
> that a caliph cannot overrule a prophet.
> 

The above is written in such a way as to convince the reader of its truthfulness
in a very insidious way. Congratulations, but just a minute. You state
that:

	'Sunnis claim that Mohammed annulled the practice'

This suggests to the reader that Sunnis at least admit the the practice did
exist for a time. Perhaps you would be kind enough as to provide references
that such practice did exist before we believe you.

I am not an expert on the marriages you speak of. You mention that the Holy
Qur'an approves of such marriages but you do not give any references from the
Qur'an or anywhere else. Could you provide us with such references or else
could you retract the above statement.

Now if you do not know of such references, and have not verified them by
yourself, then this is a grave accusation to pass on without verification.
Also you accuse the khalifa Omar (rAa) of overturning the practice which
was condoned by the Prophet (sAas). This is a grave accusation to make in
itself. First of all why would Omar (rAa) overturn any practice condoned
by the Prophet (sAas)? Secondly, why in the world would he overturn a
practice that can potentially bring great pleasures to men at apparently
little cost (he is a man)? And how could he get away with it?

If you can not back your statements with facts from historical books or
from the Holly Qur'an then I suggest that you use the word 'alledgedly'
before the accusations made. This implies that someone made the statement,
but you could not independently verify its truthfulness. 

Ahmad
From: jrad@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (ahmad.m.jrad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Pleasure Marriages
Date: 9 Apr 92 22:10:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Apr9.202317.16661@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, at392@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michel M. Karam) writes:
> 
> In a previous article, jrad@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (ahmad.m.jrad) says:
> 
> >In article <1992Apr6.215519.14925@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, at392@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michel M. Karam) writes:
> >>
> >> [snip] 
> >>
> >> The traditional split between the two main sects of Islam also embraces
> >> 'pleasure marriages.' Sunnis claim that Mohammed annulled the practice because
> >> the great Islamic wars were over and soldiers were no longer away from their
> >> wives. The Shias claim that Mohammed condoned 'pleasure marriages' and that it
> >> was the second caliph, Omar, who overturned the Koran-approved practice, and
> >> that a caliph cannot overrule a prophet.
> >> 
> >
> >The above is written in such a way as to convince the reader of its truthfulness
> >in a very insidious way. Congratulations, but just a minute. You state
> >that:
> >
> >	'Sunnis claim that Mohammed annulled the practice'
> 
> Hadn't you snipped, you would have noticed that the article comes from 
> a newspaper. Maybe you would like to write the Middle East Times a reply
> questioning the article. Maybe someone would reply to you...
> 
> 
> Michel

The fact that this is a newspaper article does not make any difference in
the basic idea which I was trying to express:

This article which is given without any supporting material should be taken
with a grain of salt. (or a handful if you prefer :-)

Much trash is reported nowadays in newspaper articles. And while I am not
saying that this article is trash, or accusing you of authoring the article,
I was just curious to see if you knew of any references that support
the claims that the article makes.

I had not noticed that it was a newspaper article. Thank you for pointing
that out.

Ahmad
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: kamel@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Kamel Chbaro)
Subject: arab vs lebanese
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 22:55:30 GMT

I've been reading and observing the discussion that is taking place now about
being an arab or a lebanese, Which brings up this question to my mind :

Was there ever a Great Arabic Nation, an arabic republic, kingdom or even
a Dynasty that ruled over an "arabic world"?

What is Arabisim, its goals and how are they achieved? 
When did the arabic movement start and by whom? who is the current leader for
such a movement?
 
Is this movement a divine one, or is it just political?
From: haidar@ces.cwru.edu (H. Harmanani)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: A better joke :)))
Date: 14 Apr 92 07:50:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.1992Apr14.075027.4868
Organization: Computer Engineering & Science/CWRU


    Two Jews are sitting in the window and middle seats on a plane.
The Jews ask the Arab sitting in the aisle seat to get them a glass of
orange juice so they won't have to crawl over him.  While he is up getting
the drinks, they spit in his shoes.  When they are about to land the
Arab guy puts on his shoes and realizes what has happened.  He complains
to the Jews, "When will it all end?  The hatred... the violence... the
killing... the spitting in shoes... the peeing in orange juice..."

-- 
H. Harmanani (haidar@alpha.ces.cwru.edu)
Dept. of Computer Engineering
Crawford Hall 215C
Case Western Reserve U
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Re: On Aoun (was Re: Are Arabs incompetent)
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 92 15:36:12 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.121215.26516@njitgw.njit.edu> elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad) writes:
>In article <1992Apr4.224201.7864@ctr.columbia.edu> sion@sioux.ctr.columbia.edu (Boudi Sahyoun) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr4.223320.7776@ctr.columbia.edu> sion@sioux.ctr.columbia.edu (Boudi Sahyoun) writes:
>>
>>>And regarding the issue of Aoun serving Irak in contradiction with the
>>>interests of Lebanon, the statement remains to be proven. To me it is not
>>>clear that Aoun's actions were dictated by Irak or that they were against
>>>Lebanon's interest. Surely you are not saying that the liberation of Lebanon
>>>and getting rid of the is against the Lebanese interest.
>>                    ^^^^^^^
>>                    militias
>>
>>Boudi
>
>
>No ya Boudi, read between the lines.
>I think what Basil was trying to say is that Aoun should have
>allied himself strictly with France because France is democratic and
>does not have the human rights abuses found in Arab countries.
>I think we should get Lebanon to join the EEC.
>
>Jokingly yours, 
>Elie.

I don't ignore that most of the Arab countries are not democratic. But believe
me, the EEC will not consider joining Lebanon or any other arabic country to 
their market just for the simple reason that none of these countries is industrial.

Nabil


Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Re: On Aoun (was Re: Are Arabs incompetent)
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 20:59:03 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.170443.18308@njitgw.njit.edu> elie@hdtv.tmc.edu (Elie I. Mourad) writes:
>In article <1992Apr13.211258.8623@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>>>>I don't ignore that most of the Arab countries are not democratic. But believe
>>>>me, the EEC will not consider joining Lebanon or any other arabic country to 
>>>>their market just for the simple reason that none of these countries is industrial.
>>>>
>>>>Nabil
>>>
>>>
>>>Hmmm if Cyprus is able to start the process of becoming a member of the
>>>EEC I see no problems with Lebanon doing the same. 
>>>
>>>Regards, Elie.
>>>
>>>PS: Sorry guys for no reply but I was in Montreal.
>>
>>That is great if you are right. But it seems to me like it is geographically 
>>difficult for Lebanon to be a Member. EEC members have to be Europeans as the
>>abbreviation imply.
>>
>>Nabil
>
>Yes it is true! And believe me, during the past 15 years I witnessed an 
>unbelievable progress in Greece and Cyprus.
>One thing I like about Cyprus, is that they are very democratic, and 
>political issues relating to government do not conflict with issues 
>such as nationalism, defense, security, ...
>
>Regards, Elie.

Is this apply to both sides of Cyprus, that is the Greek and Turkish?.

Nabil

Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: saouma@bechtel (SAOUMA VICTOR E)
Subject: Re: The racist Mr. Mourad (was Re: Bottom Line: Arabs Are Incompetent (was Re: Are Arabs incompetent))
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 18:37:48 GMT

Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: The racist Mr. Mourad (was Re: Bottom Line: Arabs Are Incompetent (was Re: Are Arabs incompetent))
Summary: 
Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Keywords: 

At the risk of starting to sound like the ACLU, I wonder why is everybody
after Mr. Mourad.

To some extent, he reminds me of Jean Marie Le Pen. At first everyone
criticize LePen because his message was a racist one. Then people realize
that after all he is saying loudly and by the way in these days and
age it takes courage to stand against what some people consider the
politically coorect way, what many think silently but do not dare
to speak up. Result, LePen got close to 15% of the electorate.

If Elie feels little in common with the Arabs, it is his right.
Personally, I do not give a damn whether I am referred to as an
Arab, Lebanese, or Maronite. However, I would say that looking
around me in the Middle East and going back for over 100 years
there is little to make you proud of being an Arab.

As a matter of fact, I would like someone to come up with the
10 top reasons why we should be proud of our "Arabicity", 
And please do not take us back to ANdalusia eventhough this is 1992!.

On the other hand, I would promise 10 reasons why I am proud of being
a Lebanese, and if you insist 10 reasons not to be proud of being
an Arab.

In summary, you guys who have been taking cheap shots through 
demagogical statements, come up with facts to backup your
outrage or drop it.

Victor
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bh437292@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Basil Hamdan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Travel Agencies to Lebanon
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:27:24 GMT
Reply-To: bh437292@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Basil Hamdan)
Organization: Engineering College, Colorado State University


Updated List of travel agencies to Lebanon:
(note to Naji: maybe this should on the FAQ list)

All Travel: (800) 344 7060 (ask for Matthew)
Comments: gave someone very good deal

VISTA Int'l : (800) 228 4782 (located in West Virginia ??)

Admiral (ask for Lina Makhlouf): (800) 822 2727 (located in Marietta GA)
Comments: works with Swissair, Lina is very helpful.

Travel All(??) : (800) 621 4795

Lotus :  (800) 344 2220 (located in Los Angeles area)
Comments: works with Alia

Golden Arch: (800) 749 2724

Atlantis :  (212) 972 5540 (no 800 number given; you can check the 800
number directory to see if it has one).

Oxford Travel & Tours :  (800) 245 7264 Fax: (404) 266 8783
              (ask for Sami Silfani) located in the Atlanta area.
Comments: very efficient.  Got tickets for Lebanon from NY 
                           for $ 875.00 on Air France.

No name for travel agency: ask for Hala (800) 426 8831

Travel Agency in the Wasington D.C. area :  (202) 625 0770
                             (ask for Marwan or Maha)

Travel Agency in Florida : (305) 856 3434

Travel Agency in Florida (another one) : (904) 763 2933

Travel agency in Montreal- Canada : (ask for Pierre or Nathalie)
                       Business: (514) 398 0771
                       Fax     : (514) 398 0795
Comments: 

Travel Agency in Charlotte NC (ask for Isaaf Masood):
    (704) 523 3620 
 or (704) 527 8880.
Comments: gets cheap tickets on Roumanian airlines.

for 800 number directory call 1 (800) 555 1212

Source of information: Leb-Net articles.

Thanks to all contributors who shall remain unnamed.

Please post additions, corrections and/or updates if you have any.

Basil
From: hayek@eemips.tamu.edu (Khalil Hayek)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: just a joke!
Date: 14 Apr 92 21:05:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: tamsun.12412
Organization: Texas A&M University

In article <1992Apr14.130600.28715@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> gmarkari@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Georges Z Markarian) writes:
>
>     me a racist are too immature to take a joke (who knows may be if they
>     did not think that this stupid joke had some truth to it they might not
>     have been so offended).
>
>Best regards
>Georges Markarian

This is very disgusting.... The "joke" you posted was offensive, whether
it reflected your opinion or not. The reply quoted above is even more 
offensive; you're now giving some credibility to the stupid joke instead
of feeling ashamed for posting it.................


-- 
|  Khalil Fares Hayek                |   hayek@eemips.tamu.edu                |
|  Looking for a job: electrical/electronic engineer or computer programmer.  |
|  C, C++, Pascal, Prolog, LISP, , FORTRAN, assembler, UNIX, VMS.             |
|  English, French, Arabic and German.                                        |