HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: s902211@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Zoran Kalenic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Re: hey SCUM: JEWS & USTASE
Date: 4 Oct 92 23:34:44 GMT

s902211@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Zoran Kalenic) writes:

>I soon hope to receive a reply from Stuart stating whether he did write the
>original article..  If no reply is received the article will be mailed to the
>appropriate administrators who will remove his account.

>Zoran.

Well, here is Stuarts reply :

-----
From s924819@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU Mon Oct  5 09:06:44 1992
	id AA26943; Mon, 5 Oct 92 09:06:43 EST
Received: by minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au 
From: s924819@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (Stuart Vincent Davison)
Message-Id: <9210042306.8722@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au>
Subject: Re: hey SCUM: JEWS & USTASE
To: s902211@yallara.cs.rmit.oz.au (Zoran Kalenic)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 9:06:35 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: OR

 dont know who did that garbage........NOT ME



 regards
	 Stuart
-----

Zoran
Xref: sparky soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna:219 soc.culture.yugoslavia:8983
From: wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Edward Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Chicago Cro's naivete
Date: 3 Oct 92 20:48:05 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.


Chicago Cro, a person already exposed for his ignorance of
Serbo-Croat, writes:

>I have enjoyed the readings in Raja i Papci. I can believe that there
>are Yugos because there is a Yugo country which is made up of Serbia
>Montenegro. But don't try to include Croatia and BiH in any type of future
>Yugo. WE will not be shackled and oppressed by Belgrade.
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


      Perhaps not... You will fall prey to a domestically bred,
      pernicious Croat nationalism that will shackle and oppress
      your people in ways that Belgrade could not even have dreamed
      of.  Any Croat who advocates that 11% of his country's
      population must be expelled on the basis of its RELIGIOUS
      AFFILIATION is leaving the door open for dictatorship that will
      make Tudjman appear to be small fry by comparison.


>-I'm no Yugo... I'm CROATIAN!!!
>-Love Chicago Cro



      Hmm... A Croat who cannot even speak his own language properly.
      It would indeed appear that nationalism is the last refuge
      of an ignoramus.


-- Eduard
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Subject: Re: Bosnian Future: My View
Organization: Enea Data AB
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 20:50:50 GMT

Senad Arnautovic (arnsenad@me.utoronto.ca) writes:
>You are right, actually these people make a substantial portion
>of the B & H population (according to 1981 Yugoslav census - I am not relying
>too much on '91 census when nationalistic flames were already burning
>Yugoslavia if not by arms but certainly with words of hatrid - there
>were about 25% of declared Yugoslavs coming mainly from ethnically-mixed
>marriages). I have completely overlooked them.

According to the 1981 census figures posted by Tom Grgic a while
ago to s.c.yu, the percentage of Yugoslavs were 7.9% in B-H.
Interesting enough, in 1981 the percentage of Muslims was as
low as 39.5, while Serbs were up to 32.0% and Croats 18.4%.

He also posted the 1991 figures, but there were no totals in
that article.

>If you claim, however, that Serbia is the one who wanted to preserve
>Yugoslav unity, I strongly disagree with you. Serbia is the first
>who destroyed Yugoslavia by crushing on Kosovo. I am not defending Albanians,
>but blame Serbia the way they handled the Kosovo situation opening
>the eyes to all republics in Yugoslavia and leading to the situation
>that Serbs managed to alienate ALL groups  in Yugoslavia.

Actually, there was nothing contradicting as such in doing what
they did in Kosovo and wanting to preserve Yugoslavia unity. It
was only the effects of the Kosovo actions, as you point out,
that were contrproductive to the other wish.

Then again, did they want Yugoslavia unity for everyone or only
for the Serbs?
-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
There are many sorts of Macedonians: Greek, Bulgarian, Roumanian, Macedonian...
From: ljubicic@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Robert LJUBICIC)
Subject: SERBS = PROLJEV
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 00:00:49 GMT



I hope one day that the Poglavnik Ante Pavelic's remains will
be returned to the homeland. Ante Pavelic was prognan as many
Croats were and are being prognani by the Serbs. 

The ONLY proljev and govno around is SERBIA and the fascist
Chetniks.

"Tito je ziv, Tito je s nama, njegova djela vjecno u nama..."
to this I say:
"Pavelica podrodila vila ali Tita vrsala KOBILA" 


To EDWARD THE FACIST LOVER I SAY:
	BOG I HRVATI - HRVATSKA HRVATOM
	ZA POGLAVNIKA I ZA DOM SPREMNI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

	B O G   I   H R V A T I

	 B O G   I   H R V A T I
	  B O G   I   H R V A T I
	   B O G   I   H R V A T I
	    B O G   I   H R V A T I
	     B O G   I   H R V A T I
	      B O G   I   H R V A T I
	       B O G   I   H R V A T I
		B O G   I   H R V A T I
		 B O G   I   H R V A T I
		  B O G   I   H R V A T I
		   B O G   I   H R V A T I
		    B O G   I   H R V A T I
		     B O G   I   H R V A T I
		      B O G   I   H R V A T I
		       B O G   I   H R V A T I
			B O G   I   H R V A T I
			 B O G   I   H R V A T I
			  B O G   I   H R V A T I
			   B O G   I   H R V A T I
			    B O G   I   H R V A T I
			     B O G   I   H R V A T I
			      B O G   I   H R V A T I
			       B O G   I   H R V A T I
				B O G   I   H R V A T I
				 B O G   I   H R V A T I
				  B O G   I   H R V A T I
				   B O G   I   H R V A T I


Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
From: U43587@uicvm.uic.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Bosnia and the Muslims of the world
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:53:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: uicvm.92276.105352U43587
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

Although many people already believe that the situation in Bosnia has
passed the point of being helped and that sending help is a lost cause,
I think not. On the contrary, the Bosnian war is in its initial stages.
I hope the Serbs are prepared for a long, drawn out war, in which they
are going to win nothing, if not lose something.

If the Serbs had half a brain, they would have researched recent
history, and found several interesting facts:

   a) Calling a war on Muslims does not restict it only to the
      muslims of that land, but rather, you are calling a war to
      the 1 billion muslims of the world.

   b) The vigor and willingness to die, held by muslims everywhere to
      uphold and establish their way of life (ISLAM) will not ever
       burn away.

   c) When the Soviet Union decided to invade Afghanistan, I don't
      think the Soviets thought it would last ten years.

       --EXPLANATION--


   a) Again , if the Serbs did their research properly they would have seen
      that it was a bad move to openly declare war on Muslims in Bosnia and
      openly stating that they are killing the birth of an Islamic state.
      The foolish Serbs would have been better off in an Islamic Bosnian
      State than they are right now (during the rule of the Muslim caliphate
      the jews living in the state had one of their most prosperous times__
      unoppressed).
      Secondly, if they thought international Muslim assistance would not
      arrive they must have been really dumb.  During the Soviet-Afghani war
      muslims from different countries poured in and laid their lives on the
      just as now in Bosnia.

  b)  When the Serbs declared war on ISLAM it was only a matter of time
      that muslims would come to the aid of their fellow Muslims. Although,
      not all muslim governments have sent aid, Iran and Pakistan have sent
      money, relief, and weapons, not to mention people have gone themselves.
      Many of them Afghani war veterans with training no Serbs have.
      These people are training and will continue to train the Bosnian
      muslim.  The best way for a muslim to die is for his way of life.

 c)   When the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan who would have thought
      that it would go on for ten years.  The Soviet Union, then Super-
      Power, it was believed could have easily swept over Afghanistan.
      But, the results have already been seen, ten years, the Soviets taking
      heavy losses, and eventually having to retreat without gaining an inch
      of Afghani land.  Also, the war lead to the fall of Communism and
      the break up of the Iron Curtain.  Allah's wrath was on them and will
      be on the Serbs.

 -M A R
 -T Y R
 -Ibrahim Sokolovic

P.S. don't believe this! read the latest issue of Newsweek.

                 Za dom Spermni! Zivila Ustasa!
From: keserovi@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Goran Keserovic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Re: Name Calling (Gorane, Gorane)
Date: 28 Sep 92 00:05:02 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia



In article <1992Sep25.052128.4981@tc.cornell.edu> stevan@alchemy.tn.cornell.edu (Stevan Vidic) writes:
>
>Goran:
>
>I will not call you an idiot or any other name.  I will not stoop so low to
>relegate my postings on this newsgroup to name calling.  Such approach
>embodies primitivism, comfortable provinciality, lack of intellectual
>arguments, and ignorance about network etiquette so amply demonstrated by
>yourself.  May I suggest that you work on your manners and familiarize
>yourself with basic prerequisites for civilized discussion.
>
>Have a nice day,
>Stevan

   You speak of mannners and acting civilized, and yet you defend the 
   Serb-Chetnik-barbarian-terrorist genocide of the Bosnian people, many 
   of whom are family, friends and relatives of the Croat/Muslim/Serb
   readers of soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna

   You talk about lack of intellect, and yet you are the one who is
   completely brainwashed by Milosevic-Karadzic propaganda that the 
   ENTIRE world realises as lies.
   
   May I suggest to you, that you work on your manners and familiarize
   yourself with basic prerequisites for civilized human behaviour such
   as not committing genocide against people who have done nothing to
   you and are unarmed.
From: aj3u@ruby.cs.virginia.edu (Asim Jalis)
Subject: Report on Mujahideen in Bosnia
Organization: University of Virginia, Charlottesville, VA 22903
Distribution: soc
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:41:55 GMT

There is a two page article on the multi-national mujahideen
force in Bosnia in the most recent issue of Newsweek (this is the
issue that has a cover story on Dan Quayle's cultural elite).
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
From: George Bogavac <K2GT@UNB.CA>
Subject: Re: Proglavnik's Return
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 22:41:30 GMT

In article <Oct.3.00.47.40.1992.16199@andromeda.rutgers.edu> pshane@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Ana M. Shane) writes:
>U52148@uicvm.uic.edu writes:
>
>>There will be a day my Croatian brothers and sisters when a
>>now departed leader of great honor returns to Croatia. Proglavnik
>>will return...                                         ^^^^^^^^^^

Sounds like that song we were taught in school:

"Tito je ziv, Tito je s nama, njegova djela vjecno u nama..."
( to be sung to the tune of "Patience" by Guns'n'Roses )

>In Croatian it is P O G L A V N I K!
>
POGlavnik, PROglavnik - same thing...
There is an even better word: PROljev.
A good one for describing 99% of the articles in this group.

Now *THAT'S* Bosnian humor.

--
Just another papak.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
From: damir@infopls.chi.il.us (Damir Matanic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Re: Drina II
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 22:34:37 CDT
Organization: INFOPLUS support, Wheeling, IL

<U52148@uicvm.uic.edu> (Chicago Cro) writes:

>  For Croats and Bosnians:
> 
>      Drinu treba pregaziti i Srbiju zapaliti
> 
>                  -Translation-
> 
>      The River Drina must be crossed and Serbia burned
> 
> 
>   Love, Chicago Cro

             Za Dom Spremni !

Cuj te Srbski dobrovoljci bando cetnitci !!
Stici ce vas nasa ruka i u Srbiji !!
Stici ce vas nasa ruka i u Srbiji !!




--
damir@infopls.chi.il.us (Damir Matanic)
Infoplus BBS, +1 708 537 0247, v32bis. Home of Infoplus.
From: U52148@uicvm.uic.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Stop crying Yugophiles
Date: 29 Sep 92 13:09:27 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

I have been reading a couple of articles in here in which people advocate
a re-united Yugo. I DON'T THINK SO!. Croatia, Slovenia, and BiH are
internationally recognized counrites with full membership in the U.N..
I do not see a re-united Yugo ever. The "Prison of Nations" has persecuted its
last nation. We have chosen our destiny by declaring independence from Yugo,
and if anything gets re-united, it will be a confederation of BiH and
Croatia.

          ___________
          |\  *   *  |
          |  \       |      Zivila nezavisna Hrvatska i
          | *  \  *  |                       Bosna-Hercegovina!!!
          |      \   |
          | *   *  \ |
          ------------
From: damir@infopls.chi.il.us (Damir Matanic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Re: Proglavnik's Return
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 92 15:04:58 CDT
Organization: INFOPLUS support, Wheeling, IL

<U52148@uicvm.uic.edu> (Chicago Cro) writes:

> There will be a day my Croatian brothers and sisters when a
> now departed leader of great honor returns to Croatia. Proglavnik
> will return... Dzafer Beg his right hand man will return... General
> Luburic will return... all the other fallen Croats who died under
> UDBA to make Croatia free will return. We will take our brothers
> and sisters who have died to make Croatia free again and bury them
> with honor in our homeland.
> 
> Slava im.
> -Chicago Cro

Exactly.  We must return them to their proper resting place, i.e. 
Hrvatska.  We must be patient; the communists will not be in power 
forever.

Bog i Hrvati
Za Dom Spremni  !


--
damir@infopls.chi.il.us (Damir Matanic)
Infoplus BBS, +1 708 537 0247, v32bis. Home of Infoplus.
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Tuesday, 6 Oct 1992 19:43:31 CDT
From: <U15231@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Rape of Muslim Women

From: BOSNET@math.msu.edu (Bosnian Electronic Network)
Organization: BOSNET (Bosnian Electronic Network)

Contribution by: SII


ALLEGATIONS OF SYSTEMATIC ASSAULTS ON MUSLIM WOMEN.  Western news
agencies on 2 October quoted Bosnian Serbian leaders as denying
recent media reports that their fighters are systematically raping
Muslim women, and military liaison officer Momo Starcevic promised
to punish any guilty parties.  On 25 September the Zagreb weekly
Globus reported on a particular incident in which 40 Muslim young
women from one village said they had been gang-raped by Serbs over
a period of several days. One of the men told them it was part of
a policy to wipe out the Muslim nation.  Globus further reported
that a team of UN gynecologists examined the women, confirmed
their stories, and concluded that such mistreatment appears to be
a "war strategy . . . [ordered] from the top." The story was not
corroborated, however.  (Patrick Moore, RFE/RL, Inc.)
From: svedja@lysator.liu.se (Dejan Ilic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Re: Bosnet
Date: 30 Sep 92 13:57:31 GMT
Distribution: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Organization: Lysator Academic Computer Society, Linkoping University, Sweden

ddc@nyquist.bellcore.com (Daniel Chukurov 21324) writes:

>Give me a break, when and were did you get information on
>existance of "BOSNIAN" language. The language can only be 
>SERBIAN or CROATIAN and not BOSNIAN. Face it the muslims of
>B-H are either serbian or croatians that converted to Islam,
>and bosnian language never did nor will it exist.
>Get it, you dummy.
>Who are Bosnians?
>		  BOSNIANS=MUSLIMS of B-H
>or                BOSNIANS=PEOPLE of B-H
>Anyhow you will never get the Cros or Serbs to say that they
>speek BOSNIAN?, my god!
>Redards.

I would even say that Serbo-Cratian (or Croato-Serbian if you like it more) would be more right. That even if these names exists only outside of former Yugoslavia (like here in Sweden) but one thing is for sure the language "Bosnian" doesn't exist.
2) Many newsnets (and thus the people) calls ONLY the muslims as Bosnians EVEN if all the people in B&H are Bosnians AND Hercegs (don't know how to write the late ones) and that include ALL THE PARTS IN THE WAR MUSLIMS,CROATS AND SERBS.
From: kutluk@ccl.umist.ac.uk (Kutluk Ozguven)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Re: B-H is NO place for IWN
Date: 1 Oct 92 22:12:16 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

sorry for the delay...

(Deniz Akkus) writes:

>I don't see why the 'Islamic Brotherhood' is that interested in Bosnia.
>And I do not buy the argument that it is feeling for the muslim

  Simple, if an army of destruction came (as impossible an idea today
as it was for Sarajevo two years ago) to Izmir and start massacring
the civilians some time, these people are the ones who will come to
die for our families and send us medicine. It was the Indian Muslims' gold 
during the comperatively-milder Greek occupation  that helped the
liberation of the city. The Muslim individuals are actually helping
themselves as well as their own children. 

>brothers.  Being part of an Ummah did not work for the Arabs when they
>fought against the Turks on the side of the British in WW1.  Never mind
>that they rebelled against the Khalifa.  So much for Islamic
>brotherhood.   

  Many Arabs fought in WWI on our side as well. Many Arabs perished in
Macedonia during the last Balkan wars. The fact Turks fought against
the Azeri Turks for centuries doesn't stop us from being concerned 
during the Khojaly massacre. In fact despite lack of ethnolinguistic
ties, I see many Turks as sensitive about Bosnia as Azerbaijan. 

  In the past, when it was more difficult to see what is happening
around the world, despite the enthusiasm was  there, the Muslim
leadership made lots of mistakes. Why didn't we Turks support the
Algerian independence ? Because we knew nothing about it apart from a few
distorted pictures. Now the common religion, or the cultural 
heritage if you like, is felt stronger with the free flow of
information. 

  Let's remember that the international Christian aid organizations are
also selective and  the donors are equally sensitive to the word
Christian, as a Pakistani is to the word Muslim. It is natural that
the first international countries that recognized Croatia after EC
were the catholic ones, and it is natural that Vatican has been more
active for people of communist Poland rather than communist
Kazakhstan. The unnatural is that if any starts to approve the
destruction of the other for political gain. 

  I disagree that the Muslims who are concerned about BiH
necessarily put the  a Khomeini model as a condition for
their donations. In that respect the original poster (with the conditional
help) is not representative of anything, and I agree that it was
controvertial as well as wrong. But there is no need to worry
about European states being swallowed by fundementalists, we'd rather
worry about the victims of the massacres and send them what
they need whoever it comes from. 

  The bearded fundementalists, the catholic Croats, the loyal Serbs and
the Bosnian small-m and capital-m Muslims,  all play in the same team,
which is for BiH'an unity with its civilian population. To claim the
glory first the match must be won. 

Kutluk
From: zxs6373@usl.edu (Siddiqui Zafar)
Subject: Re: Bosnia and the Muslims of the world
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 19:10:30 GMT

In article <Bvo5rn.FJ5@acsu.buffalo.edu> elkordy@acsu.buffalo.edu (Mohamed Elkordy) writes:
>
>>Do you respond on this horrible disaster because the victims are
>>Muslims or because they are human beings? Would you respond if they
>>were not Muslims?
>
>>Thanx a lot for the answer,
>
>
>  OF COURSE WE DO, AS A MATTER OF FACT WE ARE REQUIRED TO DO IF FOLLOWING
>ISLAMIC PERSPECTIVE.  
>
> In Islam, "human being" is respected for his "humanity", and who ever
>kills one "sole" , it is as if he killed all humanity in that sole.  Notice
            ^^^^^ 
Should be soul. I am sorry for nitpicking but this drastically changes the 
meaning. Sorry again.

>here I am saying "sole" not only "Muslim sole".
>
> God ... I just can not belive that such a question can be asked, if it is
>out of challenge ... that is O. K. and I would feel bad that I botherd 
>responding.  If it is out of not knowing Islam, this is really depressing.
>check the book "Islam: the most mis-understood religion", do not recall
>author.
>
>

The author is Muhammad Qutb brother of Shaheed Syed Qutb.
>elkordy

Salamalaikum,

Zafar
From: U52148@uicvm.uic.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: For: Ana
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:32:30 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

Thank you for correcting my Croatian, it is much appreciated.
I knew you were a Croat and I suspect that someone shanghied your
account to write pro-Yugo sentiments. I think you should look into
it and see that someone dosn't use your account number for the
promulgation of this pro-Yugo rubbish.

-Chicago Cro
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Subject: Re: Bosnian Future
Organization: Enea Data AB
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 20:08:33 GMT

Anonymous (U52148@uicvm.uic.edu) writes:
>There will be no Bosnia if the Serbs have their way. The citizens of
>Bosnia have chosen their own destiny once they voted for independence.

*Some* of the citizens chose their way.

>But the Serbs quickly put a damper on the independence celebrations.

That is, some others of the citizens.

Yes, the first group was bigger than the other. But never forget
that they were all citizens.

-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
There are many sorts of Macedonians: Greek, Bulgarian, Roumanian, Macedonian...
From: shafqat@neuro.duke.edu (Saad Shafqat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.afghanistan
Subject: Re: Report on Mujahideen in Bosnia
Date: 30 Sep 92 22:18:45 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Distribution: soc
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.



Radio Netherlands reported last pm (9/29/92) that Izzat Baig, the
Bosnian leader, has recently been in Pakistan shoring up support.
The Nawaz Sharif government has given a grant of $20 million, a
credit line of $10 million and $400,000 in other forms of support
for the Bosnian struggle.  In addition, Jamaat-e-Islami has diverted
its arms traffic route from Afghanistan to Bosnia, where consequently
many stingers and stinger-launchers have recently surfaced.  Several
Jamaati-e-Islami activists have also actually left for Bosnia to
participate in the war, much as they had done in Afghanistan.  May
Allah be with them.  Quite noble of Pakistan to help out this way,
I would think, given the overwhelming natural disaster it has
just endured.  Aren't the cash-rich Arabs helping Bosnia out ?


--