HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:01:08 EDT
From:         Computers and Writing <USERK9TG@UMICHUM.BITNET>

Here is the call for papers for the 1993 Computers and Writing Conference.
Please post this call in your departmental offices and forward it to
interested colleagues or other lists where you feel subscribers might be
interested in this conference.  Ann Arbor is lovely in the spring!



                                C A L L   F O R   P A P E R S

                         NINTH CONFERENCE ON COMPUTERS AND WRITING

                               The University of Michigan
                                   Ann Arbor, Michigan
                                United States of America
                                     May 20-23, 1993

Conference Theme:

Lessons from the Past, Learning for the Future

Conference chairs:  Emily Jessup, Susanmarie Harrington, William
Condon, Wayne Butler

Poised as we are at the end of the first decade of using computers in
writing classes, 1993 seems a good time to pause and reflect upon
what we have discovered during the last ten years and to look
forward to the next ten.  The program chairs invite interested parties
to propose papers, sessions, or workshops.  We are particularly
interested in proposals exploring one or more of the following
themes:

   --Computers, Writing, and the K-12 classroom
   --Getting started with computers and writing instruction
   --Applications of hypertext in the teaching of writing
   --Multimedia and writing instruction
   --Computers and the reading-writing connection
   --Explorations of the virtual classroom
   --Uses of computers in promoting collaborations:
          --among students
          --across disciplines
          --over long distances
   --The effects of computers:
          --on the learning process
          --on the interactions among students and teachers
   --Changing sociopolitical contexts for computer use

Proposals:  Send three copies of a two-page (double-spaced) abstract
for a paper, panel, or workshop.  Include:  name(s), affiliation(s),
address(es), telephone number(s) and, if possible, e-mail address(es)
for all partcipants.  Also include audiovisual or other equipment
needs (including computers, projection, etc).

Deadline:  All proposals must be postmarked by November 1, 1992.
Notification of acceptance will be mailed by January 1993.

Mail proposals to:
Computers and Writing Conference
English Composition Board
1025 Angell Hall
University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48109

OR

E-mail Proposals to:
Computers_and_Writing@um.cc.umich.edu
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 10:10:49 -0400
From:         "Karen R. Schnakenberg" <ks3c+%ANDREW.CMU.EDU@CARNEGIE.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Texas (*MBU*) (8)

Could someone fill me in on the E-306, Linda Brodkey controversy. I've
entered the conversation in the middle.

thanks

Karen Schnakenberg
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Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 11:34:07 -0400
From:         ENGMYLES@UBVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Transferring real life to Lit classes (7)

Jim: saving words is reality.  Let them write about that!
I accept the fact that most of my students are in my classes because they
need three credits and they had that hour free for some reason, mostly
because none of their required courses in engineering were offered then.
And if they have any reason at all for thinking about writing skills, I'm
happy.
Myles
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Date:         Sun, 13 Sep 1992 07:59:05 HST
From:         James Shimabukuro <JAMESS@UHUNIX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Texas

Re the UT-Austin Composition-English Split

I find troubling a couple of ideas that have been associated with the split:
service and skills.  If (or when) a composition department materialized, it
should not be a service-to-other-disciplines department, such as counseling.
Furthermore, it should not be a strictly-skills department, such as a
learning lab.  This is not to say that the newly formed composition
department should not work with other disciplines, or that it should not
teach skills.

Composition has arrived as a distinct discipline, an area worthy of study at
both the undergrad and graduate levels.  It has a substantial body of
knowledge that's worthy of discipline (or department) status.  Freshman comp
is an introduction to this field.

Am I alone in my fears?

Jim Shimabukuro
jamess@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 21:59:35 EDT
From:         Roni Keane <VKEANE@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Trent's Address

Trent,
I think David's problem with your address was that he spelled it "llau" as
Gallaudet is spelled rather than "llua" as your address is weirdly spelled.Or
is it my spelling that's wrong? --Roni
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Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 14:46:13 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      gulp

 I was cleaning out my note log and reread some of my entries on Murphy Brown an
 d Ice T.  Damned if those puppies don't look like flames.  Sorry about that. Mu
 st be the alignment of the planets, or maybe I'm developing multiple personalit
 ies. Apologies.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 22:07:56 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Trent's Address

 *** Reply to note of 09/08/92 19:11
 You nailed it, Roni. Once I read what was there rather than what I socially
 constructed (is that loaded or what?) I was able to get a message through.
 However, I then got a personal response from Trent, and his address went into
 my nickname file, and I was sure I had him locked in. However, what his system
 sent to my nickname file was TWBATSON@GALLUA.BITNET.BITNET. That second
 "bitnet" made a mess of things. All I want is for Trent to put me on his
 mailing list, andI'll free his soul from my nickname file.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Date:         Sun, 6 Sep 1992 17:14:01 CDT
From:         Eric Crump <C509379@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Definition question for MBU

On Sun, 6 Sep 1992 07:53:10 HST James Shimabukuro said:
>I'd agree that it is a response.  However, I wonder if we shouldn't invest it
>with an active, generative dimension.  Instead of learning how to respond to
>questions, problems, etc., it should perhaps include the ability to raise
>significant questions or anomalies that are outside the paradigms we--the
>teachers--have constructed.
>
Jim,
I think you've hit on an important aspect of critical thinking that
may get left out of classroom applications if not theoretical
and pedagogical discussions. I attended a faculty development
workshop a couple of weeks ago for prospective WAC teachers.
The program emphasized the words "critical thinking" but I was
rather surprised when each of three faculty presenters who
are experienced teachers of writing in the disciplines said
they provided students with questions and topics for their
writing assignments. I asked one of them about that, and he
said his students in lower division history survey classes
just weren't ready to formulate good questions.

How, I wonder, are they ever going to be prepared to ask good
critical questions within or of disciplinary frameworks of
knowledge if they aren't given a chance to? Seems to me that
part of the cause for the artificiality of writing in many
classrooms is this hesitancy on the part of teachers to trust
students with the task of setting up their own problems. Why
should students see the relevency of and be committed to
teacher-generated questions and tasks? (I know the answer:
to get a good grade.)


--Eric Crump
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:01:44 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Is Bloom Off Rose?

 *** Reply to note of 09/10/92 12:56
 Bloom died of AIDS about a year ago, I think.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 00:06:12 HST
From:         James Shimabukuro <JAMESS@UHUNIX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) About setting up list servers (9)

Robert Boyar,
   And have you found that the "daemon" keeps entropy at bay?  :)

Jim Shimabukuro
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:40:33 -0400
From:         "Stuart A. Moulthrop" <sm51@PRISM.GATECH.EDU>
Subject:      Order in the Disciplines

TO: The Faculty
FROM: Above

It has come to our attention that the majority of the faculty no longer
trust the English Department.  We cannot say whether this sentiment
applies to individual members as well as to their massed numbers, but
we do regard the situation as serious.

You are reminded of the cries of "My God, they'll kill us all" heard at
our last convocation.

In the interest of institutional harmony, please comply with the
following requests:

1.  Members of the Department of English will avoid gathering in
groups larger than three.  Should it be necessary to exceed this number
in mobilized groups, one member of the mob in question will precede
his or her fellows, calling out loudly, "The English Are Coming."

2.  Members of other departments are asked to refrain from following
members of the English Department in unmarked state vehicles,
eavesdropping on their telephone conversations, or giving information
about them to the Secret Service (no matter how warranted these
activities may seem at the time).  We have the reputation of the
University to consider.

3.  The singing of limericks of any sort, especially those mentioning the
school mascot or any other species of aquatic waterfowl, is strictly
forbidden in faculty washrooms.

4.  Any further affronts to the national flag of our great state will be
regarded as conduct unbecoming a gentleman.

5.  Graduate students in English are warned not to use the terms
"simulacrum," "logocentric," or "mise-en-abyme" in mixed company.
Breaches will result in disciplinary action not to exceed trebling of
outstanding library fines.

6.  Faculty in English, their families, their acquaintances, and their
livestock are hereby excused from attendance at home football games.
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 12:01:53 CDT
From:         McDonald James C <jcm5337@USL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Texas

I'm also concerned about what's going on at UT.  When I visited Austin this
summer, I understood that the proposal came from a university committee assigned
to study the undergraduate curriculum and that the proposal to remove the
writing program reflects a general distrust of the English Department in the
wake of the E-306 controversy (and past controversies?).  Kinneavy, I know,
opposed this plan, but I heard that the composition/rhetoric faculty are split
on this just as they were over Linda Brodkey's curriculum.
  If the hope is that, removed from the English Department, freshman comp will
get back to the real business of teaching writing--teaching grammatical
correctness, etc.--this isn't the same situation as when the composition faculty
fight to create a writing program independent of the English department.  It
looks as if most of the faculty for these courses will be T.A.'s and adjuncts?
  But I'm very curious who UT can find to run such a program and who the
program will be responsible to.
    Jim McDonald
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 11:47:16 EST
From:         Jim Porter <jporter@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject:      Suspicion, paranoia, etc.
              92 9:03 am

>End of flame.  I think we need each other, folks; I think we *do* have common
>interests and common concerns; I think the theories driving much literary
>investigation are important issues for writing instruction

I too believe that literary theory has something valuable to offer
rhetoric/composition (and vice versa)--but I'm not convinced that
it follows that we need to be in the same institutional unit in
order to share our insights.  The research I do, for instance,
borrows from literary theory but also from visual design,
speech/communication, electronic publishing--not to mention
rhetoric and composition itself (note the singular).  I don't see
literary theory as the only or even the best source for work in rhetoric
or composition.  In terms of research interests, I might be just as
comfortable in the speech/comm department, or the engineering school,
or the instructional design department.

The question for me is Do the gains outweigh the pains?
I think the answer to that question has to be, will be answered
locally.  In particularly painful places, it might be a good thing
for rhet/comp to become its own department.  (Though I am generally
distrustful of non-departmental status--like a division, program,
or board--viewing it as a way for rhet/comp to be marginalized as
not or not fully academic.)  In other places rhet/comp might be
better off staying connected to English.  I see some signs, too, that
English departments are changing, and in directions that would make
them cozier places for rhet/comp to reside.  All in all, though, I
don't think rhet/comp _has_ to stay put for reasons related to its
research.

--------------------
Jim Porter
Purdue University
jporter@mace.cc.purdue.edu
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 13:17:36 -0500
From:         sm51@PRISM.GATECH.EDU
Subject:      Battle of Slatingrad

I greatly respect my colleagues who do pedagogical research and don't do
literary theory.  I endorse the idea that these people ought to have their
own tenure lines and equal institutional standing if that is what they
want.

But there's also a danger in such separations.  You've all no doubt heard
the bad rep deconstruction has gotten.  It's a nihilist practice, people
say, morally corrupt because it denies the possibility of truth.  Okay
maybe that's so, if you take deconstruction to extremes.

But I want to warn of a corresponding danger in this practical,
functionalist defense of pedagogy that a lot of folks are expounding.  The
danger is in overlooking the way that skills, performance, and standards
emerge from social context.  As thinking people, we need to subject that
context to inquiry and criticism.  Sure it's important to study the
practice of teaching; and in autonomous programs if necessary.  But just as
deconstruction can lead to a nihilism that ruins the sacred truths, a
narrow focus on practice may engender a complacency that ultimately serves
those who would stifle critique.

Practice keeps theory honest by reminding it of social reality.  Believe it
or not, theory can sometimes do the same for practice.  If we let it.

Stuart Moulthrop
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Date:         Sat, 12 Sep 1992 16:50:58 --500
From:         Allene Cooper <IFCAC@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      wac-l

 Gail, could you tell us once more how to subscribe to wac-l.  Thanks.

 -- Allene Cooper
 Dept. of Business Administration            (602) 965-3231
 Ass't Director, Writing Across the Curriculum  (602)965-3097
 Arizona State Univ., Tempe, AZ 85287  BITNET: IFCAC@ASUACAD
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Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 12:20:37 HST
From:         James Shimabukuro <JAMESS@UHUNIX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Definition question for MBU

David,
   Dd you say "real problems"?

;-)

Jim
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Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 11:00:50 EDT
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From:         BAHUOT01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU
Subject:      Critical thinking and assigned tasks

I think Lili Velez makes some valid points about teacher assumptions concerning
what students want.  I wonder though if it isn't a little naive of us to try
and free students from pedagogical restraints without helping them learn how to
 do it.  I wasn't surprised that the Freshmen at CMU wanted assignments.
That's what they know how to do, and they have been rewarded for doing it.  On
the other hand, if we believe (as most of us do) that to learn how to do
intellectual work a student needs to move beyond just responding to assignments
then we need to structure that within the curriculum, starting with more rigid
assignments and moving to writing and other projects which have less structure.
It's like wanting students to work in peer groups but realizing we have to
show them how to do it.
Brian Huot
University of Louisville
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Date:         Sat, 5 Sep 1992 16:02:49 -0400
From:         ENGMYLES@UBVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Transferring real life to Lit classes (7)

Jim:  glad to see we share the same different realities.  Myles
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Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 12:21:00 EST
From:         "Rhoda Carroll, Vermont College,
              Montpelier" <RHODA%MUNIN%HUGIN@NORWICH.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Definition question for MBU

Marcia, how could I forget the Biloxi 'gators or anything else about
B.B.'s Harem.....  great to hear your e-voice --  and yes, separating BS
out of ordinary discourse seems a grand ( & perhaps attainable) goal.  Like
Jim, you emphasize _action_ in your definition.  I will too.  Are you going
to C & W in ANn Arbor?  Wouldn't it be nice to have a reunion!

Thanks to all who have tried to define critical thinking...  It's
so interesting to look closer at this ubiquitous term and discover
how intuitive our thinking about it really is despite our valiant
attempts to quantify it.

Cheers,
Rhoda
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Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 10:00:46 EDT
From:         Marcia Halio <AFK11654@UDELVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: EnfiLOG List; 2nd posting

Hi Trent,
Please add me to the list of readers for the EnfiLOG.  We have not gone
realtime yet at Delaware, but if we can find some money somewhere in our
sparse budge, we might.
USMAIL--   Marcia Halio
           English Department
           University of Delaware
           Newark, DE 19716
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 21:31:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) How _did_ we learn? (Was: RE: Wetware) (4)

Date:         Wed, 09 Sep 1992 22:05:38 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:   <1992Sep09.220538.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      How _did_ we learn? (Was: RE: Wetware) (4)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

Lili,

That's quite a question, and applicable to mycelia.  The relationship
between the learning and the learner are similar to the relationship
between the mass of mycelia (which lies hidden) and the visible "fruiting
body" which is visible.  The learning has a will of its own.  Once in a
while it allows itself to surface and manifest itself in some conscious
action on the learner's behalf. When this occurs, it transforms the
learner--often without her/is knowledge.

An Association:

The summer was so humid three years ago that we began to find mushrooms
growing in the corners of our bathroom.  They sprouted two-three times a
week.  About a year later the wall began to callapse.  The mycelia had
decomposed the organic material (some idiot used sheet rock instead of
wet-wall materials on the tub surround).  I also think of this when I see a
commercial for athletes foot medication.

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology
    Maybe you thought I was the Packard Goose!
            Run ne run ne run ne run ne ooo
                            Or the Ronald McDonald of the nouveau abstruse
                                           -- Frank Zappa
                                              Well-known-musician type guy

------------------------------
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:38:07 EDT
From:         rselfe@MTU.EDU
Subject: Re: listserv-like software

I almost hate to post this on MBU.  The response may be overwhelming.  But
if you really want to set up a listserv (the real thing) this is a message
from one of the fine technical people here at MTU.



>Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 09:35:11 EDT
>From: tjsold@mtu.edu (THEODORE SOLDAN)
>Message-Id: <9209091335.AA11144@mtu.edu>
>To: rselfe@mtu.edu
>Subject: Re:  listserv-like software
>
>Dickie, If I understand this guys's question correctly, he wants to start a
>listserv.  The best way I know to do this is to contact a site that already
>supports the software and talk them into letting you run it from their site.
>You can install it at your own site, but most beginners opt for running it
>remotely.  A real popular site is NDUSSVM on bitnet.  Hope this helps.  Ted
>
>
Dickie Selfe
Technical Communication Specialist-102 WAHC
Michigan Technological U.
Houghton, Michigan  49931
906-487-2447
<rselfe@mtu.edu>
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