From: stehman@hubcap.clemson.edu (Jeff Stehman)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Power
Date: 6 Nov 92 08:35:08 GMT

A few weeks ago my Sunday school class discussed politics in general
and the presidential race in particular, and I nearly ODed on
republicanism. :-)  It was clear that everybody had a very strong
desire for the USA to become a godly nation.  What bothered me about
both the classroom discussion and the more intimate discussion over
lunch afterwards was that many of the participants seemed so intent on
establishing this godly nation, that they were overlooking the souls
of individuals.  For instance, many of them liked the idea of keeping
pagans or atheists from holding public office or positions in public
schools.  Along similar lines, I believe Bush once made a comment that
atheists shouldn't be citizens.  I'm not interested in discussing the
legality of these ideas, but rather, the consequences of establishing
such a nation.

Spose it happens.  Christians hold all the authority in the United
States -- they are in power.  More than that, they keep non-christians
from holding certain positions or doing certain things or whatever.  My
questions is, how do you then witness to these non-christians?  You would
be witnessing from a position of power where the power is based upon your
Christianity.  I have difficulty imagining that being very successful.  I
suspect that most converts would be converting to power, not to Christ.  
And people who rebel against power would be pushed away from Christianity.
I feel that, in order to witness effectively, we must approach others from
a position of equality or subservience.

Deep in my gut I feel that, while the political goals of groups like the
Christian Coalition may make ours a more godly nation, at least on the
surface, they would also turn many away from Christ.  Stephen Lawhead wrote
in one of his novels, "Even though a kingdom fell, it was not worth a
soul."  I agree.  I assume those seeking to move Christianity into a
position of power do so believing that they will be saving souls.  But in
the discussion I was involved in a few weeks ago, the discussion leader was
the only one who said anything about saving souls, and his comment was
ignored.  The discussion was about gaining control and power.  It literally
made me nauseous.

I would like to hear the opinions of others on this matter, both from
those who believe that putting Christianity in power (not Christians, but
Christianity) would be a Good Thing, and any others who believe that it
would be a Bad Thing.

						Jeff Stehman

[The following is talked from the alt.atheism FAQ:

23. "Did George Bush really say that atheists should not be considered
     citizens?"

     The following exchange took place at the Chicago airport between Robert
     Sherman of American Atheist Press and George Bush, on August 27 1988. 
     The Republican presidential nominee was there to announce federal
     disaster relief for Illinois.  The discussion turned to the presidential
     primary:

      RS: "What will you do to win the votes of Americans who are atheists?"

      GB: "I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community.  Faith in
           God is important to me."

      RS: "Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of
           Americans who are atheists?"

      GB: "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens,
           nor should they be considered patriots.  This is one nation under
           God."

      RS: "Do you support as a sound constitutional principle the separation
           of state and church?"

      GB: "Yes, I support the separation of church and state.  I'm just not
           very high on atheists."

     UPI reported on May 8, 1989, that various atheist organizations were
     still angry over the remarks.

     The exchange appeared in the Boulder Daily Camera on Monday February 27,
     1989.  It can also be found in "Free Enquiry" magazine, Fall 1988 issue,
     Volume 8, Number 4, page 16.


I don't have the impression that he was proposing to change the legal
status of atheists.  However I can see that a group of people might be
concerned about their treatment by a government whose head feels that
they aren't first-class citizens.

--clh]