HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: smd@VAB02.LARC.NASA.GOV (Steve M. Dahmen)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Weekly Love Meditation #30
Date: 27 Jul 92 04:10:05 GMT

From "Worthy of Love - Meditations on Loving Ourselves and Others",
	a weekly meditation book from "The Hazelden Meditation Series"
---
			=====> WEEK THIRTY <=====

	Love is the magician, the enchanter, that changes worthless things
	to joy, and makes right royal kings and queens of common clay.
						- Robert G. Ingersoll

Love invites us to perform our very best.  Knowing we're loved removes the edge
of terror when we're contemplating the unfamiliar, the party with strangers,
or meeting a new boss.

We are transformed by love.  It comforts the questioning mind and the quavering
heart.  We can endure the long moments of suspense while awaiting a hoped-for
outcome when we know we're loved.  And those times we doubt another's love,
times that are sure to come, will quickly slip by if we're reaching out with
a loving heart to someone else.

Every event promises greater joy when experienced with a spirit laced with
love.  The robin's song, the laughter of children, the vibrant colors that
ooze from the petals of flowers capture our attention when we're feeling loved.

Love heals us and bonds us and promises us a life filled with moments of
magic.

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Steve Dahmen, Systems Analyst                         (804) 864-4519 (W)
Vigyan Research, Inc .- NASA Langley Research Center                    
Internet: smd@vab01.larc.nasa.gov
From: rjp1@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (be here now)
Subject: sun bear
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:01:37 GMT

Greetings!

I have perhaps some unpleasant news...
I've heard a rumor that Sun Bear is dead.
Can anyone confirm this? 

Last Fall, I received a flyer in the mail from Spokane stating that
Sun Bear had cancer of the throat.  It also said that his primary
reason for touring/visiting the world's remote places of power was to
seek out a healer.  But he had been unsuccessful in obtaining cure.

Sun Bear had a vision of all people coming together within the sacred
Medicine Wheel.  He talked about his vision with me once while I was
at one of his Earth Celebration gatherings.  The Medicine Wheel, like 
everything else, is a circle.  But it is a sacred, healing circle.
A place where one is renewed and/or absolved from the things that
have made our own personal visions opaque and/or impermeable to light. 

During this gathering, I stood at the southern gate dispensing tobacco
to those who would seek the humbleness of Tunkasila.  It was truly an
unexpected and enlightening experience, one that I won't forget.

Probably his best book (imho) is Earth Astrology.  The only criticism
I have about it is that it lacks depth.  But perhaps that speaks more
of my own expectations.  Books don't tell the whole story, and I think
this is very true of Bright Dawn/Black Day.  You have to hear him speak
about these issues; reading about them doesn't fill in the gaps or
answer questions you might have.

As with everything, be sure to take along a few grains of salt.
It will remind you of the non-absoluteness of things.


--
Bob Pietkivitch     |  "Moon, my long lost friend, is smiling from above."
rjp1@ihspa.att.com  |   -- Genesis, Stagnation 1970

Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: hillman@carina.unm.edu (Dan Hillman)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 09:46:56 GMT
Organization: Holy Order of Quadra 950 Lust

In article <62580@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
>Dear Dan: Your pretty cotton picking funny. Sounds like your having
>a good laugh out of all of this.
>John Winston.

Dear John,

Your (sic) right; I fudge my Levis in glee every time I see one of
you're (sic) posts.

I am amazed that fully half of the traffic of this newsgroup is comprised
of your three-line messages ("I'm having an astral wank, everybody!"),
empty posts (" "), and one-screen text dumps. 

Call me a skeptic, but I would think an intelligent life form who
wanted information distributed would get in touch with someone who had
a clue.

-- 
| _   ;/                                                          Dan Hillman
|(")_/   "I'm right and you're not."                   hillman@carina.unm.edu
|~~/                                                 University of New Mexico
|~/                                               Land of Fucking Enchantment
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery)
Subject: Re: absolute truth
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:19:21 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.101906.8532@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com> kambic@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Bonus, Iniquus, Celer - Delegitus Duo) writes:
>In article <1992Jul9.185030.9988@tc.fluke.COM>, emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery) writes:
>> To kill an innocent person in cold blood is wrong.
>> Does anyone disagree that this is not an absolute truth?
>
>Please define innocent.  If you choose to do so, why do you have the right to
>do so?  What is cold blood?  What if the person committing the act is "insane?" 
>Who judges?
>
>GXKambic
>standard slightly cynical disclaimer

Is there anyone out there that feels it would not be wrong for you
to shoot and kill any random person just for the sake of killing?

-- 
John Emery		"You say we've risen to a new age of light.
emery@tc.fluke.COM       You're telling me what used to be wrong
			 is now right."
From: gt0009b@prism.gatech.EDU (rahim)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: "quotes on talk.religion.newage"
Keywords: quotes
Date: 24 Jul 92 23:24:12 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Jul20.223205.25150@infonode.ingr.com> haefner@infonode.ingr.com (Mark W. Haefner) writes:
.In article <1992Jul20.072209.3041@u.washington.edu> cruiser1@milton.u.washington.edu (Walter D. Pullen) writes:
..
..     I have been a reader of talk.religion.newage for the last three
..years, and have been posting for the past two. During this time, I
..have met many interesting people, and have been exposed to many new
.
.
..All nature is art, unknown to thee;
..All chance, direction, which thou canst not see;
..All discord, harmony, not understood.
..All partial evil, Universal Good;
..And, spite of pride, in erring reason's spite,
..One truth is clear, Whatever is, is right.
.
.                                     - Pope
.
.
.Walter, is this quote from "The" Pope, or just some guy named Pope.

Maybe it's from Alexander Pope.

rahim
-- 
                  "...And my ties are severed clean
      The less I have the more I gain / Off the beaten path I reign"
                                -- "Wherever I May Roam," Metallica
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:3513 alt.alien.visitors:4835 sci.skeptic:13266
From: ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: 27 Jul 1992 17:42:22 GMT
Reply-To: ingria@BBN.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com
In-reply-to: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com's message of 27 Jul 92 16:01:33 GMT

In article <62886@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:

   Dear Dan: I wish that I had you with me yesterday down in Souther Calif.
   on a 5 miles hike into some American Indian ancient country. That would
   have taken some of the starch out of your levies. We were in an area
   where people have sightings of what the indians call Thunderbird and 
   what scientist call the pterodactyl.

You realize, of course, that partaking of what winos call Thunderbird
can produce visions of what scientists call the pterodactyl.

-30-
Bob

Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:3406 alt.alien.visitors:4655 sci.skeptic:13031
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 18:35:07 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <62479@cup.portal.com> <l6mh8tINNlq6@news.bbn.com>

Dear Bob: You don't get anywhere unless you heart is right.
John Winston.
Well is everbody ready for July 22, 1100 PM Milpitas, Calif. time?
I hope to take off then pick E. and go by and get J. then we may all
drop in on Shannon.  It will be an astral convoy.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: mw@frodo.ki.fht-mannheim.de (Marc Wachowitz)
Subject: Re: Looking for the Self (was Re: absolute truth)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 12:43:54 GMT
Organization: Fachhochschule fuer Technik Mannheim
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Len Moskowitz <moskowit@panix.com> wrote:
: Marc Wachowitz writes:
: >There are memories and concepts, no doubt.
: The ones "I" have are not the ones "You" have so where is oneness?
- If for some times you aren't aware of your arm, does it then cease to be part
  of you?
- Oneness doesn't mean absence of structure and differences, but no strictly
  separate entities; just like you can reasonably speak of different waves, but
  all are one process, the movement of the ocean
  (all this according to my current understanding - remember I don't claim
   omniscience or something like that; you introduced the idea of a teacher :-)
- There exist several reports of sharing thoughts/feelings of "others"; once
  Krishnamurti said he'd purposely avoid doing that, just as one wouldn't
  read other's private letters.

: >Three points about this:
: >1) The question is about some "separate self", and the focus in on the ego/I/
: >   psyche/mind/soul/whatever-you-call-it, not just about the body (hardly 
: >   anyone doubt's our arms and legs are somehow different); though this 
: >   shouldn't be seen as implying a separation of mind/matter.
: Separate ego is illusion but separate body isn't?  Hand isn't foot?
I'd propose first to investigate the nature of this ego, and not to worry so much
about metaphysical claims and all that stuff.

: If memory reflects continuity, what does "unchanging" matter?
: Everything is in constant change, yet there is continuity in memory.
: Separate threads of continuity implies distinct self, no?
What does then follow from direct access to "other's" memories?

: >3) Memory and thinking only consists of pictures of something, and doesn't
: >   provide evidence for the existence of some entity.
: My memory pictures are different than yours and both of ours are
: different from George Bush's.
The memory pictures when sleeping are different from those when awake, so are
there two persons?

: Who (what) remembers you?  Who remembers me?  Are they one?  Are you
: sure?
Oh, want to be sure of results before making experiments? :-)

: 	If someone has taught you even one single letter, that person
: 	is your teacher.  -- paraphrased from Mishnah Avot
Okay, then let's drop the restriction to words/letters and see all as teacher.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Wachowitz, mw@gandalf.ki.fht-mannheim.de, 75742@novell1.rz.fht-mannheim.de
  *  wonder everyday    *    nothing in particular    *    all is special  *
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: arsmith@nyx.cs.du.edu (Alan Smith)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 20:15:45 GMT

In article <62886@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
>Dear Dan: I wish that I had you with me yesterday down in Souther Calif.
>on a 5 miles hike into some American Indian ancient country. That would
>have taken some of the starch out of your levies. We were in an area
>where people have sightings of what the indians call Thunderbird and 
>what scientist call the pterodactyl.
>John Winston.


You're thinking of Condors, big vulturelike birds.  Pteradactyls were more
like flying squirrels than birds, although I suppose they could make use
of thermals to gain altitude.

Big Al.  Hey, what did Pteradactyls eat, anyway?  Any kind-hearted
palentologists out there?
From: kish@charon.rutgers.edu (Kish)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Birth, rebirth and near death experiences
Date: 28 Jul 92 04:29:01 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
To: wong@rkna50.riken.go.jp

>	I think the near-death experience also follow a similar line. As the
> brain is deteriorating, the senses' data no longer reach the brain as what
> they use to be. And all one get are "lights" and "sounds". There is also
> theories about how the deterioration of the brain leads to certain sensory
> paths to feedback and misfed information to the higher centres leading to the
> "great bright tunnel" experience.

Can you actually cite some references which explain some of the
"theories" you allude to ?  

>	See ! I'm sure there is a perfectly sound explanation for a lot of 
> these things. 

I'm sure glad that one's all cleared up :)  And there I was trying to
learn about bardo states and powa practices !  What a fool - all I had
to do was get cable !

> But of course most people here would prefer some mystic guru's
> version. ;-)
>
> Yours in skepticism (sorry, Tagi),
>
> W.F. Wong.

Don't be afraid to extend you skepticism to "science" as well.  And
don't be afraid to find a teacher who can turn your skepticism into
a hot ball of doubt !

-Bill
-- 

PHONE: (908) 932-5026
UUCP : {ames,att,harvard}!uunet!rutgers!jove.rutgers.edu!kish
INTERNET: kish@jove.rutgers.edu
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley)
Subject: Re: absolute truth
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:56:41 GMT

davidh@cascade.ens.tek.com (David Hatcher) writes:

>In article <1992Jul20.175927.641@tc.fluke.COM> nordenga@tc.fluke.COM (Arnold E. Nordeng) writes:
>>It is independent of whether there is existence or not.  I start of
>>on the premise, "if there is existence", and follow up, then God must
>>be a being.
>>
>>As for myself, I cannot deny my own existence.  On that basis,  I must
>>exist.  If I exist, I must be a being (in a state of existence). 

>  Using your argument than, I cannot deny the existence of that huge 
>rock in my backyard, it has always been in my way. So than, it must 
>exist.  Than as you say, if it exists, it must be a being (in a state 
>of existence). The car that I drive to work in than must also be a 
>"being". I cannot deny it's existence because I use it everyday.

>  Do I have this correct?

>  What I'm really trying to say here is that just because God may exist, 
>that does not mean that God is a "being".

  if you are correct in you understanding of rock and car, it is logically
inconsistent to say god may exist, yet not be a being.  can you show
me how it isn't illogical?

Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:3444 alt.alien.visitors:4715 sci.skeptic:13115
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: The Prime Directive
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 06:18:58 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Jul22.153119.375@talon.ucs.orst.edu>
  <1992Jul22.174720.16281@m.cs.uiuc.edu> <h7fmkyr@lynx.unm.edu>
  <62609@cup.portal.com>

Dear Fellow Travelers: Wow last night was really something else. About
23 years ago I became part of what is called the Sananda Sanat 
Kamara Association. I volunteered to become an Empath which is a person
who takes on negative energy when something needs to be disipated. Last
night as I attempted to make contact with the people in this group by
astral projection things were going along pretty good and received a 
good picture that was probubly one of the participants.  I then went
out of conciousness and received a lot of negative energy from many 
sources.  At 0145 I woke up  and was in bad shape and with the idea
that I'd never try that again but I changed my mind and now plan to do
this same thing each wednesday at the same time. More much later. J. W.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley)
Subject: Re: absolute truth
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 05:00:51 GMT

walsha@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Beginning to think is beginning to be undermined - Albert Camus.) writes:

>In article <sbuckley.710827511@sfu.ca>, sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley) writes:
>> 
>>   my question is more do you believe objective truth exists, 

>yes.

>> not whether you can fully know it.  

>for an excellant overview of this from a scientific point of view,
>check out the latest SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN - the article on
>Quantum Philosophy. Great stuff. 

>  ando.

  well, i've quite the background in quantum philosophy--enough to know
that it leads to more despair than hope.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: amorgan@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Crunchy Frog)
Subject: Re: The Prime Directive
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:29:15 GMT

In article <cass8806.108@elan.glassboro.edu> 
  cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY) writes:
>In article <62609@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
>
>>Dear Everybody: I don't have time to say much. A person by the name 
>>of Kumar in Germany has been sending me E-mail and my E-mail has not
>>been getting back to him so I sent him a telepathic message. He wrote 
>>me yesterday that he was aware of me sending him a telepathic message
>>and that I had woken him up and had also appeared in his dreams. This 
>>has happened to me and other people before. On sunday and monday nights
>>I did a little warm up astral projection.  Remember tonight at 1100 PM
>>it the time we'll do the experiment.
>>John Winston.
>
>that's AMAZING! Kumar has been appearing in MY dreams too! though in the 
>guise of a shoe salesman trying to sell filet mignon to sandinista rebels 
>with inflamed salvatory glands!!
>
>what could this mean?

I think it means you need to lay off the medication for a few weeks.

(BTW - John Winston has been appearing in my dreams too.  He is usually 
wearing leather and has a Golden retreiver and about 10 containers of
whipped cream with him.  Scares the shit out of me).

C Frog
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: pease@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Pease)
Subject: Re: God, the Universe, and You (Creation)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md. USA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 16:38:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.210253.2251@u.washington.edu>, mcfarlan@corona.math.washington.edu (Thomas J. McFarlane) writes...
>00mjdecaroli@bsu-ucs.uucp writes:
>>
>>    Does anyone have any theories or the like on the Origin of
>>the Universe? 
>>     It is my understanding that the Universe began as One, became many,
>>and will end up as One. The many are the dream of the One. When you or I,
>>who are a part of the One, wake up to Self, (who is the One in the begin-
>>ning) we BECOME the Self, or One. We then see the Self, or Him, in all
>>things: other people, nature, animals, stars, in fact the whole Universe.
>>      I'd like to question this still further, however. What, exactly,
>>is the nature of the Self, which created the Universe, which IS the 
>>Universe, or "God". 
>>      Where did God come from? We know now, or have theorized from
>>writings that God, or Self, created the Universe, IS the Universe,
>>yet the ultimate conclusion writhes out of our grasp: where did HE
>>come from?
> 
>When we ask "where did the Self come from?" we presuppose that It is
>created, has an origin, and is bound by time--we mistake It for what
>It is not.  Thus we end in perplexity.  When we ask "what is the nature
>of the Self?" we presuppose that It has some determinate nature.
>When we try to grasp It, we presuppose It is something other than
>ourself.  See these preconceptions clearly and I suspect that the
>questions will unask themselves.
> 
>Regards,
>Tom McFarlane

In the initial post it was stated that we all know about the big-bang; but
then dropped it and moved on to various religious/metaphysical beliefs.

Remember however that Einstein said that energy and matter are interchangable
and that energy can not be created or distroyed; but only changed in form.
If this is true, then there was no real beginning in the sense of something
being created out of nothing.  The beginning of the universe of matter,
space, and time was the formation of matter out of the field of energy (the
big-bang).

Is this scientific view different from the religious/metaphysical view?
I don't see any difference at all.  I think that science has indeed
answered the question and the conclusion is that the One or All is eternal.
The one thing that science has not concluded (yet) is that this All is
a conscious entity (GOD).

Phil Pease 
My witty disclaimer - everything I perceive, through either sensory or
extrasensory means, has been filtered to such an extent that you had better not
attempt to attribute anything I say to anyone else.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: moskowit@panix.com (Len Moskowitz)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: absolute truth
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:35:31 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

Stephen Buckley writes:

>well, it makes sense, but it makes me wonder if the conclusion isn't moot
>and irrelevant.  if being is dependent on time and god's above time thus
>god isn't a being, is god still relevant if he isn't a being like temporally
>bound beings?

Then the question becomes, does G-d, who is not a being, get involved
with creation.  If so, then G-d is relevant.  The question then
becomes why and how does G-d get involved, and what does that imply
for us?

For Jews, the answer is that G-d, though not a being, is intimately
involved with Creation, so as to bestow the ultimate good upon it.
This ultimate good is none other than G-d's presence.

Other religions have other answers.

-- 
Len Moskowitz
moskowit@panix.com
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:3490 alt.alien.visitors:4797 sci.skeptic:13212
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 07:24:02 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <62762@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul25.040417.22282@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>

Dear Press: 
One of the problems of astral travel is that is of not very high
frequency and you can run into some very low vibrational entities.
John Winston
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:3588 alt.messianic:2574 soc.culture.jewish:13259