HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: megabyte@chinet.chi.il.us (Dr. Megabyte)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: The Bugles: Pitched higher or lower than Bb?
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:30:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: chinet.C1F4Ir.107
Organization: Abacus Computers - You Can Count On Us

Well, as a new bugle player in a _struggling_ new corp, no one can yet tell
me this:

Are the G bugles pitched higher or lower than their Bb equivilents?

Thus, as a Contra player, when I see a written middle C, shoould I be
sounding the G onthe bottom line of the Bass cleff, or the G one octave
below that?

How about a list for each instrument that lloks like:

Soprano's Middle C sounds concert ????
Mellophone ""    " """     "
Baritone
etc, etc?
-- 
"It is a pity that even a single drop of this noble 
 gift of God should be spilled" - J.S. Bach on wine
Mark E. Sunderlin: Technocrat in Winchester, Virginia  KD4HRI
 aka Dr. Megabyte: megabyte@chinet.chi.il.us  (703) 722-9330
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
From: jvbutera@grad04.math.ncsu.edu (Jeffrey V. Butera)
Subject: Re: Pat Metheny on Prodigy!
Organization: NCSU Mathematics Dept.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:59:58 GMT

In article <1jmoanINN9em@gap.caltech.edu> michaelw@cco.caltech.edu (Michael Wong) writes:
*        You know, will the general public recognize a musician host as easily
*as they do Gowdy?  I agree that Gowdy is quite the drum corps novice but in
*the public eye, his presence gives the finals legitimacy, I think.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yup - that's what you think. I say bull.  To me, "forcing" DCI to use
a sport commentator is like saying that the public can't fathom what 
they're seeing, so we'll relate it to a football game which, OBVIOUSLY,
everyone understands.  This is horse manure.  As I commented earlier,
John Tesh would be a:
  a) great choice among musicians (composers)
  b) great choice in public eye (they see him as a reporter)
How could he go wrong (although I'm not saying that he'd be the best or only
choice, there are other good people available.)`

My point is just that why do we have to take an art and transform it into a
sport for the average joe-blow to appreciate it?


* Michaelw@cco.caltech.edu *





-- 
Jeff Butera                 "Life is what happens while
Math Graduate Student        you're making other plans."
N.C. State University  
jvbutera@math.ncsu.edu          My post - my opinon.
From: niel@cars.com (Niel Bornstein)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: Drumcorps on Compu$erve
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 13:16:29 EDT
Organization: NMB productions
Reply-To: chinchilla!niel@cars.com
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v1

I was snooping around on Compu$erve yesterday and lucked into a burgeoning
thread on drum corps in the Music/Arts Forum.  I thought about seeing
if I could cross-post some of the messages.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could gateway all the relevant UseNet, Compu$serve,
and Prodigy newsgroups together?  Maybe a digest to those users without
direct UseNet access?  I know OTL served this kind of purpose before
r.a.m.d, but there are still people on Prodigy and Compu$erve (and
AppleLink, SprintMail, MCIMail, America Online, etc.) who would love
to have acces to the kinds of things we talk about.  Also, I know
our scope is pretty much limited to college students and computer
professionals due to the nature of UseNet, so we get a smaller focus
of fans and participants in the activity than we could have.

Any thoughts?

Niel

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Niel M. Bornstein                              chinchilla!niel@cars.com |
|                                            ...csn!sable!chinchilla!niel |
|  _   _   _   ___                              71730.1056@compuserve.com |
| | | | | | | | __)                          1352 North Morningside Drive |
| | | | | | | | (_                                Atlanta, Georgia  30306 |
| | |_| |_| |_| __)  productions          (404) 872-6883   (404) 551-8075 |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: Re: where is everyone
From: <MHUGHES@MIAMIU.BITNET>
Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1993 15:41:11 EST
Organization: Miami University - Academic Computer Service

In article <01050023.o893eh@chinchilla.cars.com>, niel@cars.com (Niel Bornstein)
says:
>
>In article <1993Jan20.181634.1@d0gs03.fnal.gov> (rec.arts.marching.drumcorps),
>jerger@d0gs03.fnal.gov writes:
>>    By the way, message to Brad : speaking of SCV '87, I just got that
>>tape of the end snare cat who taped his walkman to his harness and
>>recorded Finals ...
>
>Hey, hey, hey, what are you doing passing confidential messages like
>this around.  Now _I_ want a copy.  And share with the rest of the group,
>too.

Seconded.  Is there a way one can arrange to get a copy of this *insider*
recording?

Much obliged, Mike
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
From: citurra@araucaria.cec.uchile.cl (  D A R K S E I D)
Subject: predicciones.1993
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 20:30:16 GMT
Organization: Centro de Computacion (CEC), Universidad de Chile
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
From: rlapham@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Richard Lapham)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: Woodwins - bands vs corps
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:57:29 GMT
Organization: NCR Engineering and Manufacturing Atlanta -- Atlanta, GA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

I lost track of who said it, but a point of who is better Corps or Bands?
brings up an interesting thought.  Why not have a competition pitting the DCI
open class champions against the best Marching Bands, be they H.S. or College
or whoever.  Seems this would be interesting, but a bit difficult as the
seasons are not overlaping and a lot of corps members also march in top bands
also.  But boy would that be a show to see, better yet put the top 6 DCI against
the top 6 Bands.  I won't say who would win, but they wouldn't carrying a 
lot of dead wood.   

Here it is --- The DCI Champions vs the Top Band -- Half Time at the Super Bowl.

PS I like both in there own way.

  Richard.Lapham@AtlantaGA.NCR.COM           
     "Don't peak too early" all Corp directors.
         "All opinions are my own - unless I state otherwise" 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
From: scottm@helena.stat.uga.edu (scott mclure)
Subject: Re: Blue Devils
Organization: UGA Statistics Department
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:26:56 GMT

If you will notice the caption scores from this past year and from 91,
the reason Devils keep losing is the poor percussion scores.  Being 1st
in brass, 3rd in visual, 4th in G.E. is okay, but when your drumline is
8th, that's not going to cut it.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
From: stderic7@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu (Eric Camburn)
Subject: Re: Cadets cymbal line
Organization: U of Chicago, SSPPCC
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:38:48 GMT

In article <h9n1Hl#o1c@atlantis.psu.edu> AMR@ECLX.PSU.EDU (Adam M Ray) writes:
>I just heard that the Cadets are abolishing their cymbal line for the '93
>season so that they can add five spots, some to the guard and some to the
>horn lines.  This may be a permanent thing, or it may just be for this
>year.  Can anyone verify this?
>
Other rumor deleted.

I can't verify the rumor about the Cadets but in a similar vein
I thought I saw someone (perhaps Brad?) post earlier that the Cavies
were going sans cymbals in '93.  Is this a trend?  It looks like 
the Cavies may have added a tenor or two in place of the cymbals.
I also thought someone posted earlier that SCV was going
without cymbals as well.  Alas, the carriers of the brass disks
may be a dying breed.  I was always impressed by cymbal players
who could do cartwheels while holding their cymbals.  In a similar
vein, I'd be interested in hearing people discuss theories about
deciding on the numbers of people to put into each position.  
For example, how/why do corps decide to go with 8 rather than
10 snares, or 6 rather than 8 contras (aside from the fact
that those are as many people that the corps can get for
those positions)? 


++++--++++--++++--++++--++++--++++--++++--++++--++++--++++--++++--++++--++++
|                    							   |
| Eric Camburn				abaeric7@polis.spc.uchicago.edu    |	
| Department of Education                                                  |
| University of Chicago                                                    |
|                                                                          |
++++--++++--++++--++++--++++--++++--++++--++++--++++--++++--++++--++++--++++

Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
From: rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu (Robert W Berry)
Subject: Re: Cymbal lines
Organization: Clemson University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 02:47:52 GMT

tmv@cupid.cc.bellcore.com (vandewater,thomas m) writes:

>I don't think I'll miss cymbal lines in general, but here's one I've
>missed for a few years.  Do you remember when VK used an all-female
>cymbal line that had great legs?  (sorry about this sexist comment,
>but I had to mention it).   I have no idea if they were good...but
>they looked great!!

This would be the "sex cymbals"!  Not only did they look great, but they
were a blast to watch (as are most of the better cymbal lines.)

I'll miss them, but I think cymbal lines in top-25 corps are becoming a
thing of the past.  Firstly, there's very little they do that can't be
covered in the pit.  Secondly, the cymbal line was originally where you
put people that weren't talented or experienced enough to play in the
battery.  Modern drumlines really don't have a lot of these people
trying out, so extremely talented people (who could be playing other
battery instruments) were being relegated to the cymbal line.

Kind of like marching tymps and the American flag squad come to think of
it.

Later,
Bob

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=- Bob Berry -=- Net-Guru's Inc.        ! rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu   -=-
-=- Teach them quick, before they think. ! 803-654-7623 || 803-656-1076 -=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: dowzycki@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Ken Dowzycki)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: Blue Devils and stuff
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:28:02 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.



     Well, I guess I have to defend the Blue Devils somewhat.  First
let me state that their drill is always pale in comparison to the
rest of the "big guns", so much that I am tired of seeing the same
patterns from them regurgitated.  I think that the philosophy of 
those in charge is that the Blue Devils are all about sound and
the risk of losing that for the sake of drill innovation is not
worth it to them (This is my theory alone).  Now, you might say
that other corps have done it and been sucessful.  Maybe.  I am
willing to buy this on a single great year basis but not 
consistently.  Would the Cavaliers be willing to tame their drill
for the sake of a horn line?  They have really never been known
for horns, and never won high horns at DCI.  Instead they are
known for drill, guard, GE, and drums.  They have never won best
guard at DCI yet are regarded as one of the best.

    I wonder what the politics are behind J. Murphy remaining 
the drill writer for BD?  Would Wayne Downey veto a very demanding
drill at the expense of one of his arrangements?

   I am not convinced that BD couldn't win DCI now if their drum
line was better.  They were 8th, so let's add a point to drums and
maybe five tenths to GE drums and there they are in the hunt.

   I guess I am defending BD and criticizing them and also pointing
out that other corps have costly weaknesses too.  Maybe Cavies would
have won in '90 and '91 if their hornline was up to snuff.  Maybe SCV
would have never been 6,4,and 7 respectively, if their hornline did
not become ghastly.  Who knows?

    If the Blue Devils haven't seen the writing on the wall yet then
they must be content or truly believe that this is the direction for 
the corps.  Imagine if I saw the Cavaliers every year and complained
"When are they going to learn how to play!"  Then I would miss everything
that I enjoy about what they offer.  The same is true for all of the
other corps.

   These, of course, are my opinions, observations, etc.


                                             Ken
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
From: knights@IASTATE.EDU (Andrew H Combites)
Subject: Re: Blue Devils
Reply-To: knights@IASTATE.EDU (Andrew H Combites)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:46:14 GMT

I agree that the Blue Devils drill is very boring.  I have seen things in petri
dishes move more than BD.  Anyway, at ISU, we refer to there marching style as
"Paisley 'A' to Paisley 'B'" because that's what the drill looks like most of
the time.

Later,
Andy
Xref: sparky rec.arts.marching.drumcorps:478 rec.arts.marching.misc:689
From: tmv@cupid.cc.bellcore.com (vandewater,thomas m)
Subject: Re: Woodwinds (was Re: Cadets cymbal line)
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 17:56:01 GMT
Summary: Another opinion on woodwinds


As a former woodwind player and a DCI alumni, I'm against woodwinds
in drumcorps.  I wouldn't be totally opposed to limiting woodwinds
to the pit to create some new effects, but that's it.

Keep drum and bugle corps without woodwinds marching!

Tom
---
From: phantom@stein2.u.washington.edu (The Phantom)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: Re: If someone were to ask you...
Date: 24 Jan 1993 20:18:29 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein2.u.washington.edu

In article <1jurdmINNgsc@early-bird.think.com> fath@mbcrr.dfci.harvard.edu (Michael Fath) writes:
>In article <1jstlhINNl70@gap.caltech.edu> michaelw@cco.caltech.edu (Michael Wong) writes:
>;>	If someone were to ask you what drum corps was, how would you explain
>;>it to this non-drum-corps person?  What would anyone do?  Bring this person
>;>to a show?  Show him (or her) a program from a drum corps show (finals, 
>
>I like to take them to a show, they have always come out having enjoyed
>it a lot, but then I still try not to force-feed it to them.
>
>...
>I find that playing a video or audio recording is NOT effective.  While I
>can look at a video and appreciate everything that is going on, most
>non-fans cannot and just get turned off by it.  The only way to really
>introduce a new person is to take them to a live show!

I find this, too. However, a video is *much* more effective than is a CD, and
up in the Northwest we have so few 'big production' DCI shows (here in WA,
about 2/year) that I end up using the taped versions. Any good Cadets year
will show them more movement than they've ever seen at a marching band show...

*Then* you can introduce them to the quality of the music and they are 
impressed that much more. 

Matt

Matt Thomlinson
University of Washington, Seattle, Washington.
Internet: phantom@u.washington.edu      	    phone: (206) 528-5732
PGP 2.0 key availaible via email or finger phantom@hardy.u.washington.edu

Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
From: AMR@ECLX.PSU.EDU (Adam M Ray)
Subject: Cadets cymbal line
Organization: Penn State Engineering Computer Lab
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 14:51:39 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

I just heard that the Cadets are abolishing their cymbal line for the '93
season so that they can add five spots, some to the guard and some to the
horn lines.  This may be a permanent thing, or it may just be for this
year.  Can anyone verify this?

An even more remote rumor that I have heard is that the Cadets might even
stop competing in DCI to do exhibition shows with expanded pit instruments
and, gasp, maybe even woodwinds in their shows.

Oh the two rumors, the first comes from a pretty reliable source, but the
second I am not so sure about.  Anyone who has information about these
things would you please post.  Thanks...

adam ray      ray@crayola.cs.psu.edu
              AMR@ecl.psu.edu
From: cf123@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Christopher Leigh Putnam)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: Marching Bands vs. Corps
Date: 28 Jan 1993 00:38:06 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cf123@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Christopher Leigh Putnam)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


No contest.  Corps would win hands down.  Most top 6 corps could put out as
much power as almost any college band, regardless of size.  The fact that
corps use only brass, projection instruments and college bands use
everything is enough.  Not too mention that the corps players are generally
in much better playing shape than most college players.  Volume goes to the
corps.

Corps also win in the area of precision.  A college band that could compete
with the volume of a corps would have to be HUGE.  This leads to a great
deal more mistakes.  This also makes moving much more difficult, so there
goes any chance of doing real drill.  General effect goes to the corps
then.  Color guards are no contest, corps win hands down.  Percussion is
the only possible thing a college band could win, caption wise.

Crowd?  Coming from a wanna be Star member, who cares what the crowd
thinks?  Corps would dominate, and I'd like to see it.
-- 
Chris Putnam (still a Blue Devils lover at heart)
Euphonium/Baritone
Star in '93?????
Go Devils Winterguard!!!!!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
From: bjh42543@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Brian J. Haag)
Subject: Re: Winning prelims & Not Finals\Judging
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 06:02:45 GMT

scottm@helena.stat.uga.edu (scott mclure) writes:


>remember reading that in DCI Today's recap of scores.  Am I wrong?
>Scott


I read that too.  Also, I think they mentioned it on the telecast that year.

-- 
    Brian J. Haag             |  "System + Spirit = Success" -- Gary Smith
    bjh42543@uiuc.edu         |                                          
    Senior, Dept. of Finance  |   My opinions don't necessarily represent      
    University of Illinois    |   what *I* think, much less anyone else.
From: cf123@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Christopher Leigh Putnam)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: Other poll answers
Date: 23 Jan 1993 22:48:40 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cf123@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Christopher Leigh Putnam)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Here are the answers to the other two polls going around (besides the drum
solo poll):

0. Next non-champion to win DCI: Blue Knights-The up and coming
Star/Garfield

.5. Next non-finalist corps to break into top 12: Glassmen with the
Crusaders close behind

1. Best corps show of all time: No question-the 86 Devils.  Any corps that
can win ALL captions deserves legendary status!

2. Most difficult show of all time: 91 Star.  Never has a production of
that difficulty been dreamed of, much less attempted.

3. Best drill writer of all time: Zingalli and Brubaker.  The two giants of
the 80's that set the standards we follow today.

4. Best arranger of all time: Wayne Downey.  You have to look no further
than his arrangement of Tommy in '90.  A couple of guitars and a vocalist
scored into a full corps.  AMAZING!!!

5. Best hornline of all time: Either the 86 Devils (most likely) or the 84
Devils (who could forget that rendition of La Fiesta?!?)

6. Best drumline of all time: '86 Devils.  I'm not a drum expert by any
stretch of the imagination, but I like listening to that one more than
most.

7. Best color guard of all time: '90 Devils.  The Devils are setting the
new standards, and that was the first of their new style.

8. Who is my favorite corps: This is tough.  I'm a loyal Devils fan for
life, but by trying out for Star (still have my fingers crossed-which makes
it difficult to play) has tested that resolve.  My current favorite is
Star, but I will ALWAYS want the Devils to win.

9. a) Next corps to fade out of existence: Magic (we can only hope)

9. b) Next corps to fade out of top twelve: Bluecoats.

Someone was rebutting the choice of Phantom Regiment for this last
selection by saying that last year was an off year and "what corps hasn't
had a bad year".

The Blue Devils.  18 years in the top 5.  17 of those 18 in the top 4.  A
horrible year is 5th for the Devils.  The most consistent in the history of
the World.  That's why I say the are the best of all time, even though SCV
has been in the top 12 forever, the Devils have been in the top 5 for
almost forever.

-- 
Chris Putnam (still a Blue Devils lover at heart)
Euphonium/Baritone
Star in '93?????
Go Devils Winterguard!!!!!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
From: knights@IASTATE.EDU (Andrew H Combites)
Subject: Replys 
Reply-To: knights@IASTATE.EDU (Andrew H Combites)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 22:52:30 GMT


Seeing as I just read about 50 postings all at one sitting, I'll reply to all of
them at once.  In regards, to small corps, I had to do a lot of sticking up for
them this summer in the Cavaliers.  One time a kid in the hornline said we
sounded like the Manadarins and meant it as in insult and most of the hornline
thought it was funny also.  However, there are a few of us who took it as a
compliment because we now what it is like since we came from small corps.  That
really pisses me off when people make fun of corps that they have never heard
and know nothing about!  In regards to all the talk about the Blue Devils, I
still can't believe they were beating us in field visual for about two weeks in
August.  What a joke.  I also think people are neglecting the fact that Phantom
Regiment usually has a good hornline.  Except for 1992 when it sounds like the
contras are "breaking wind" under the mike in "1812."  

Later,
Andy
Cavaliers '92-'94
From: fath@mbcrr.dfci.harvard.edu (Michael Fath)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: Blue Devils (was Re: MY 1993 Predictions)
Date: 24 Jan 1993 19:57:00 GMT
Organization: Dana-Farber Cancer Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: mbcrr.harvard.edu

In article <81530@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt1293c@prism.gatech.EDU (W. Scott Radeker, IV) writes:
>1.   Blue Devils

Hmmm,

A lot of people put Blue Devils at 1st or 2nd and I just can't see that
happening until BD has a real philosophy change.  

I like BD a lot.  Their horns and guard are great.  But they no longer
try write shows for themselves that will win DCI.  They don't integrate
the visual and musical programs to the degree of sophistication that many
corps now do.  Instead, they have historically avoided using the innovative
ideas that have propelled Cadets, Star and Cavies to the top spot in the
last several years.  Until they rethink their visual program and bring it
into the same league as used by Cadets, Cavies and Star, they will not place
higher than fourth  (I Predict (tm)), no matter how good their hornline is.  
1993 will be no different.

Last observation, BD never surges near finals.  Either they have a show
that is SO good that no one can touch it or they will be passed up by
other corps thoughout the season.  It happens time and time again.  They
started ahead of just about everyone in 1992.  Then Star passed them, 
Cavies passed them and during the last week Cadets passed them.  Thus,
once a corps outscores BD at even one contest, they will probably end up 
higher than BD at DCI.


-- 
MM   MM FFFFF 	Michael J. Fath		
M M M M F	Dept of Microbiology and Molecular Genetics
M  M  M FFF     Harvard Medical School         
M     M F       Boston, MA 02115	            fath@mbcrr.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps