HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: mandatory transponders
From: Geoff Hugo <mt_hugo@fencer.cis.dsto.gov.au>
Date: 10 Nov 92 10:03:11 CST
Distribution: world
Organization: ARL Airframes and Engines Division

The Civil Aviation Authority (Australia) intends to make the carriage of mode C
transponders mandatory for all aircraft, including gliders, hang-gliders etc
(no exemptions), operating above 5000 feet within a large area along the east
and south east coast of Australia.  The area involved is HUGE, running almost
the entire length of the east / southeast coast and extending hundreds of miles
inland, and includes almost all of the popular sites currently used for soaring
in Australia.  The restriction is to be applied to airspace which is currently
uncontrolled and to which gliders currently have completely unrestricted
access.  The affected airspace is to become ICAO class E and the new
requirements will take effect from 1 July 1993.  Given the extremely low
traffic density in Australia, the imposition of a mandatory transponder
requirement over such an enormous area would seem to be both unjustified and
unduly restrictive on sports aviation.  Needless to say the sports aviation
bodies including the Gliding Federation of Australia are campaigning against
the restriction, however, time is running out as the proposal is due to be "set
in concrete" on 9th December 92.

I would be very interested to hear about any other countries which have imposed
similar transponder requirements.  I have heard that transponders may be
mandatory for gliders operating in some areas of the USA and also possibly New
Zealand.  I would be very interested to get information about:
1.  the size and location of areas in which transponders are mandatory.  Are
they only around major airports, or are large areas of en-route airspace
affected as is proposed for Australia?
2.  did the transponder requirements result from easing restrictions on access
to previously controlled airspace or from increased restrictions on access to
previously uncontrolled airspace?
3.  what is the power drain of a transponder - is it feasible to run one off a
glider battery for the entire duration of say a 10 hour flight?
4.  what is the cost of a transponder? what costs are associated with mandatory
periodic calibrations?
5.  does the local soaring fraternity view the transponder requirements as
reasonable or as an unnecessary restriction?
6.  did the airspace authority base the imposition of a transponder requirement
on an established level of IFR traffic in a given area? If so, what level of
IFR traffic was considered necessary to justify the imposition of a transponder
requirement?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.  Please email information to
mt_hugo@fencer.cis.dsto.gov.au  or post it to this newsgroup.  

Thanks in advance,
Geoff 
 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: peny@ppc.lpc.ethz.ch (Peter Nyffeler ,x4399)
Subject: Re: Turnpoint Cameras
Reply-To: peny@ppc.lpc.ethz.ch
Organization: ETH-Zuerich, Physical-Chemistry-Lab. - Switzerland
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:02:59 GMT

In article 777@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu, petri@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (HOWARD PETRI) writes:

>I wonder if Aland or anyone could comment upon what to buy in the way
>of a databack turnpoint camera. 

>Wabash Valley Soaring and Indianapolis Soaring are going to host a regional
>next year and we would like to eliminate the start gate by using data back
>cameras to record start time and place. One can even do remote starts
>using this technique, starting different classes at different locations
>with the benefit of thinning out the congestion and improved safety.

>Howard Petri
>Pegasus (EJ)


In Switerland we used a silent start and finish methode, on allmost all contests.

The camera we use is PhotoTime II made by Raeber. 
It is a modified Yashica with 35mm focal length (fix focus). 
The build in timer has a resulution of 1s and starts with the first photo taken.

The order of Photo you have to make is:

1. The offical clook with your imatriculation.
	This is to check, that you didn't start before the start line was open.
2. Start line
	Last time we had different lines for standart and open classes.
3. Turnpoints.
4. Finish line.
	Also they can by at different places to improve safety.
5. The offical clook with your imatriculation.

If you have a Raeber barograph, you can connect it to the camera and you get a
mark for each photo on the barogram. 

Unfortunatly there is no alternative camera avaiable for this methode.

	Peter Nyffeler (member of Soaring Club Zuerich)

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: dinsdale@berlioz.nsc.com (Steve McRobert)
Subject: Re: SSA
Summary: don't subscribe to soaring magazine
Keywords: gliding soaring magazines
Organization: National Semiconductor Corporation
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:19:17 GMT

In article <1drdukINNlhm@uwm.edu> hodgeman@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes:
>
> Is anyone in this group a member of SSA?
> How would you rate their magazine, compared to something like
> Sport Aviation?  I would like to join, just for the magazine,
> but I don't want to spend all that money for a small
> magazine with b/w pictures.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Bill Hodgeman   (hodgeman@csd4.csd.uwm.edu)

I'm afraid I don't rate soaring magazine (produced by the SSA) very much
at all.  It seems to be the house magazine of the "in crowd" with very
little in teh way of reviews of new gliders etc.

Many people rate the british magazine produced byy the BGA (sailplane &
gliding I think) much more highly



-- 
Steve Mc Robert (a.k.a. Dinsdale Piranha) PP ASEL, Glider, Tow Pilot
Organisation: National Semiconductor. Aircraft: DG300 GJ
Want to soar?  Call the Ames soaring club 510 516 1745 at Byron airport
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: jon@dikas.no (Jon Marthins)
Subject: Re: mandatory transponders
Organization: Dikas (Digitale Kartsystemer)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:12:09 GMT

In the US they have gone through a battle like that in 90/91, with a
positive outcome.  I recommend you get in touch with the Soaring Society
of America (SSA) who coordinated the work of reducing the requirement
that all gliders must have mode-C transponders.

Some notes on glider flying in controlled airspace in my own country, Norway: 
We are allowed to operate in controlled airspace provided we establish
radio contact with the Air Traffic Control (ATC). Transponders used to be an 
issue, but this season we experienced that Air Traffic Controllers in the
area I normally fly could see us on the radar, even fiberglass gliders.  
They had got a new radar and by switching it to primary mode (raw signals)
they could locate the glider echo.

We were surprised by this and of course tightened up our radio procedures.
I once flew inside the Oslo TMA which is quite busy, but the controller
found the echo from my glider and asked my altitude once in a while.
He even gave me traffic information, and seemed to enjoy having a glider
inbetween the airliners.

In areas with large glider activity we operate in "boxes" inside
controlled airspace.  We allocate the relevant boxes in the morning with
a fixed upper limit and can operate freely inside these (on a local frequency).
All IFR traffic are routed outside these boxes.  If we want to go outside a
box we contact the ATC on a normal basis.

The bottom line is that gliding in controlled airspace can be handled by
careful cooperation between the national aeroclub and the aviation authorities.

	-jon

       ___
________|________  Jon Marthins
        0	   jon@dikas.no      "Gliderpilots keep it up longer...."
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: mkfeil@bcrki9.bnr.ca (Max Feil)
Subject: Re: Audio Variometer
Reply-To: mkfeil@bcrki9.bnr.ca (Max Feil)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 20:28:19 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.171457.10256@brtph560.bnr.ca>, rlarsen@bnr.ca
(Richard Larsen P220) writes:
] I do not know what principle it operates on. I don't know if it will
] work in tight glass slipper. Maybe I will have to keep the vent open
] in winter weather for it to work.

Hey, just make a rear-facing vent, and presto - you get "total energy system"
for free!   :)

Max
--
Max Feil  mkfeil@bnr.ca | Disclaimer:
Bell-Northern Research  |   What do I know? I'm just a Nerd on the Big Ranch.
P.O Box 3511 Station C, |
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.| "Enrich The Soil, Not EveryBody's Goal" Peter Gabriel
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: gregg@sunbeam (ron gregg)
Subject: Re: Paragliding nr LA
Followup-To: Paragliding nr LA
Keywords: Paragliding
Reply-To: gregg@sunbeam (ron gregg)
Organization: Tekelec, Inc.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 05:03:31 GMT

I don't know of any myself, but I am working at the 
moment in Agoura Hills. 

If you don't get what you need before you come over the pond, ring 
me up and I will help you.

Ron Gregg @ (818) 880-7839 Days


ron gregg@tekelec.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: gregg@sunbeam (ron gregg)
Subject: Wing Loading Controversy
Keywords: Wing Loading, Competition, 15m class
Reply-To: gregg@sunbeam (ron gregg)
Organization: Tekelec, Inc.
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 02:48:25 GMT

Does anyone have the latest information concerning the wing loading limit for competition in 
the USA?

I understand that it has been passed in the Standard class and am just wondering about the 
15m class. 

Stick forward = win, right or left = lose.

Ron Gregg ASW-20  ("A")

ron gregg@tekelec.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: tks@kestrel.nwc.navy.mil (Tom Serkowski)
Subject: Re: Wing Loading Controversy
Keywords: Wing Loading, Competition, 15m class
Organization: NAWS, China Lake, CA
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:23:35 GMT

I believe the 15m class will have no wing loading limit within the
near future.  The only limit will be certified max gross weight.
I believe the standard class is now limited to 9 (or is it 9.5)
lb/sq ft in national competition.


Tom Serkowski
ASW-20B
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: Re: mandatory transponders
From: Bruce@hoult.actrix.gen.nz
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 19:38:31 +1300 (NZDT)
X-Mailer: rnMac Buggy, I mean Beta, Test Version


I haven't yet got to the stage where I've needed to worry about this, but I
happened to talk to Max Stevens (well known NZ competition pilot and CAA
Director of Certification (?)) about transponders last weekend and so I
*think* the following is accurate...


> A transponder is required in any controlled airspace. That includes 
> everything above 9000 feet.

It also means almost everything over 5500, including in the CTA/VE (Control
Area/Visual Exempt) over in the Wairarapa.

Apparently you don't need to be in radio contact with ATC and assigned a
squark number etc, but all gliders just set the same number (1300?) on their
transponders.  I don't know whether this means you can use a cheaper unit.


> I don't have the costs handy, but I think it was around NZ$2000 but the cost 
> could be spread over several years

I was told CAA would sell you one for either $800 up front, or $100 a year for
10 years.


General opinion seems to be that the NZ Gliding Association gave way *far*
too easily on the issue of transponders.
From: guy.byars@feguy.infoserv.com (Guy Byars) 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: Re: SSA
Date: 13 Nov 92 19:47:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Soaring Society of America's BBS
Reply-To: guy.byars@feguy.infoserv.com (Guy Byars) 


>In article <1drdukINNlhm@uwm.edu> hodgeman@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes:
>>
>> Is anyone in this group a member of SSA?
>> How would you rate their magazine, compared to something like
>> Sport Aviation?  I would like to join, just for the magazine,
>> but I don't want to spend all that money for a small
>> magazine with b/w pictures.
>>
>>Thanks in advance,
>>
>>Bill Hodgeman   (hodgeman@csd4.csd.uwm.edu)
>
>I'm afraid I don't rate soaring magazine (produced by the SSA) very mu
>at all.  It seems to be the house magazine of the "in crowd" with very
>little in teh way of reviews of new gliders etc.
>
>Many people rate the british magazine produced byy the BGA (sailplane 
>gliding I think) much more highly
>
>-- 
>Steve Mc Robert 

I disagree with this opinion of Soaring Magazine.  While it is not in the
 same class as like "Sport Aviation", it is still a good and worthwhile
 magazine for soaring pilots.

> It seems to be the house magazine of the "in crowd"

  While there is a small group of pilots who consistantly win contest 
that appear frequently in racing news, the magazine tries to provide
something for people interested in different areas of soaring... (racing,
clubs, instruction, motorgliders...etc).  As Soaring has no "staff writers"
as such, it depends on members to contribute news and articles.  So if you are 
not satisfied with what is published, then submit something yourself!  This is 
more productive than criticism.

> with very little in the way of reviews of new gliders etc.

It is probably not news to anyone, but not many new gliders are being built.  
And Soaring Magazine has published numerious flight test evaluations by Dick 
Johnson.  Soaring has also made an effort to provide information on the new 
World Class Design, and the American entry the Cygnet.

As was posted earlier, there are many other benifits of SSA membership than just
the Magazine.  Not the least of which is their lobbying efforts on the FAA's  NPRMs.

I reccomend both the SSA and Soaring magazine.

                                                        Guy Ford Byars








--- WinQwk 2.0 a#571
                                                        
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: news@massey.ac.nz (USENET News System)
Subject: Re: mandatory transponders
Organization: School of Maths and Info Sciences, Massey University, NZ.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 19:29:32 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.100311.165057@dstos3.dsto.gov.au> Geoff Hugo <mt_hugo@fencer.cis.dsto.gov.au> writes:

>I would be very interested to hear about any other countries which have 
>imposed similar transponder requirements.  I have heard that transponders 
>may be mandatory for gliders operating in some areas of the USA and also 
>possibly New Zealand.  I would be very interested to get information about:

Yes, New Zealand has a similar requirement.

>1.  the size and location of areas in which transponders are mandatory.  Are
>they only around major airports, or are large areas of en-route airspace
>affected as is proposed for Australia?

A transponder is required in any controlled airspace. That includes 
everything above 9000 feet.

>2.  did the transponder requirements result from easing restrictions on 
>access to previously controlled airspace or from increased restrictions on 
>access to previously uncontrolled airspace?

There has been no easing of access.

>3.  what is the power drain of a transponder - is it feasible to run one off a
>glider battery for the entire duration of say a 10 hour flight?

Gliders in NZ are allowed to use low power transponders that are practical 
to run on a glider battery for a days flying.

>4.  what is the cost of a transponder? what costs are associated with 
> mandatory periodic calibrations?

I don't have the costs handy, but I think it was around NZ$2000 but the cost 
could be spread over several years

>5.  does the local soaring fraternity view the transponder requirements as
>reasonable or as an unnecessary restriction?

Some people think it's reasonable, others think it's an unnecesary 
restriction. Personally I think it benefits the commercial operators, 
airlines etc, who can easily justify an extra couple of thousand dollars in 
their multi-million dollar operation, but is of little benefit to private 
operations, who may think a couple of thousand dollars is a lot of money.

>6.  did the airspace authority base the imposition of a transponder 
>requirement on an established level of IFR traffic in a given area? If so, 
>what level of IFR traffic was considered necessary to justify the 
>imposition of a transponder requirement?

Pass.

Transponders have been pushed onto all aircraft on the basis that every 
aircraft must have a transponder or the system is useless. I'm still not 
sure what the reason for all this control is. We don't have a lot of traffic 
in NZ and I haven't noticed any of it crashing into other aircraft. The last 
air to air I heard about was two VFR aircraft in uncontrolled airspace. 

I'm sure that the busy international airports in NZ would have  some 
benefit, but requiring everything bigger than a seagull to carry a little 
beacon seems a bit over the top to me.


        Philip Plane      __|__     P.J.Plane@massey.ac.nz
       --------------------( )--------------------
      Glider pilots have no visible means of support
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: josh@sol.asl.hitachi.com (Joshua Koslov)
Subject: Re: SSA
Reply-To: josh@sol.asl.hitachi.com
Organization: Hitachi America Ltd
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:52:06 GMT


There are some entertaining color pictures, but in general Soaring magazine seems
to provide a good overview of what is happening in the sport.  There are generally
articles of interest to beginners (e.g. Safety Corner) as well as contest stuff geared
towards the competition guys.  If you are interested in soaring, I would certainly advocate joining the SSA--not just for the magazine, but because it serves as our
advocate to the FAA in regulatory issues.

Josh Koslov PP-G
(Ham NG2V)
From: latyr@IASTATE.EDU (Leslie A Tyrrell)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: Q: US Collegiate Club Budgets
Keywords: CSA Collegiate Budgets
Date: 5 Nov 92 08:45:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: IASTATE.1992Nov5.024505
Reply-To: latyr@IASTATE.EDU (Leslie A Tyrrell)
Organization: Iowa State University

Hello US Collegiate Soaring Fans !

I am starting a collegiate soaring club on my campus, and need
information about typical budgets and costs in order to draft
a budget request to submit to my school.

I am primarily interested in getting budget information for
U.S. collegiate clubs, and what level of funding they recieve
from their schools.

Any information regarding membership fees, flight rates, typical
travel expenditures, costs of attending soaring meets, maintenance
costs, etc. would be appreciated.

We are presently a member of CSA, so any clubs out there interested
in someday competing with a team from Iowa State University, please
respond !  Your assistance is greatly appreciated !

Ballpark figures will do for right now, we are putting together a
rough draft for our budget.

Thanks !

Les Tyrrell
Soaring Cyclones
Iowa State University, Ames IA
	
latyr@iastate.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: cs922038@ariel.yorku.ca (PAUL R DAVISON)
Subject: GLIDER INSTRUCTION
Originator: cs922038@a01.ariel.yorku.ca
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Distribution: york
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:02:53 GMT


	I am a Canadian glider instructor. I would like to hear from 
other instructors about methods in other countries.

	I work with the Air Cadet program here. This program provides a
six week summer course in which the students are given a 58 flight syllabus
which puts the student at Glider License standards.

	As you can imagine, not a lot of time is spent teaching the finer points
of soaring. (we sometimes refer to it as the air cadet elevator) But the 
students become well versed in the more basic requirements for safe and 
enjoyable gliding.

	anyone involved in a similiar program please send or post details

 Paul Davison        email - cs922038@juno.ariel.yorku.ca

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: rmiller@i88.isc.com (Richard J. Miller)
Subject: Re: SSA
Keywords: gliding soaring magazines
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 17:00:09 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.211917.17328@berlioz.nsc.com> dinsdale@berlioz.nsc.com (Steve McRobert) writes:
...
>I'm afraid I don't rate soaring magazine (produced by the SSA) very much
>at all.  It seems to be the house magazine of the "in crowd" with very
>little in teh way of reviews of new gliders etc.
...

slightly sarcastic mode on, who is the "in-crowd"? and what new gliders
have shown up to be reviewed recently?

on a calmer note, soaring is a very small community. the SSA has just
under 15,000 members. in a small community, it is easy to lose people
who have interests that are different from the "in crowd" because there
is no one to carry their cause, whereas a bigger organization would
provide bigger subgroups and more opportunity.

am i a member of the "in crowd"? maybe, the president of the SSA, Gene
Hammond, is a member of my club and a friend of mine. but i haven't been
active in contest flying for a long time (and never was known for that),
nor do i have much name recognition anywhere within the SSA. but i AM a
member of the SSA, just the airspace fight was worth that much.

as for Soaring magazine, the articles they print come from the
membership. there are no "professional" writers working for the magazine
in the same sense that Flying or Road&Track have full time staff
writers. i'm amazed that the story quality can be as good as it is.

how do you make it better? write an article! or convince me you have a
good idea (which isn't really as hard as that may sound), and i will pass
it to Gene. he has spent the last several years working at fixing
headquarters support and fighting airspace battles, maybe he can get
something going for you too.

Rich Miller
ex-Schempp-Hirth Discus JBX and
ex-Rolladen-Schneider LS-4 TQ
rmiller@i88.isc.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.misc
From: doshay@ursa.arc.nasa.gov (David Doshay)
Subject: Re: Public perception of general aviation
Organization: NASA-Ames Biocomputation Center
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:04:39 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.215146.2185@ccad.uiowa.edu>, yiannis@ccad.uiowa.edu (Yiannis Papelis) writes:
|> > I think that the most effective way to popularize GA would be to have
|> >characters in a popular television show make use of GA. (i.e. Bring back 
|> >Sky King.)  It would be hard for television to provide an accurate picture
|> >of GA but if it could, then this would be the easiest way to educate 
|> >millions and millions of people.
|> 
|> From what I read in Flying and other aviation magazines, private pilots
|> were the first to help after the hurricane in florida by transporting
|> supplies using their small private planes.  I was rather
|> dissapointed when I didn't even see a remote mention of such news in 
|> any of the national reports.  I believe that was a unique opportunity
|> for GA to get some good publicity.  Maybe there is still time ?
|> 

The same was true out here in the Bay area after the World Series Earthquake.
Pilots ammassed a huge quantity of blankets, clothes, food, and other stuff
and flew it all over th Watsonville from Reid Hillview, an airport that the
county kept trying to close. A bit of it made the news and the papers, but it
was kind of in the corner in the back kind of coverage. The County Board of
Supervisors even gave a certificate of commendation to the airport and pilots
that did the airlift. A few of the Supervisors seem to have cut out some of 
the more extreme "close the airport" retoric.

Doing good deeds helps our image, now we have to get them to look.

David		doshay@soma.arc.nasa.gov

The thought police insist I tell you:
my thoughts, not NASA's
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: al@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Alan Peterman)
Subject: Re: Handheld scanners (not in faq)
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:45:35 GMT

The Rip Schlock units go on sale about every 3rd month - usually at
about $229.  A better way is to check out rec.radio.swap (? or 
some such)..and local radio shops.  The normal price of a used
Pro-34 (200 channels, covers aviation and can be modded to cover celluar)
is around $150.


-- 
Alan L. Peterman                                 (503)-684-1984 hm & work
                       al@qiclab.scn.rain.com
It's odd how as I get older, the days are longer, but the years are shorter!
Newsgroups: rec.aviation