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Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:34:54 EST
From:         MacPhil <IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU>
Subject:      Re: ratings for tv
Comments: To: Forum for the Discussion of Politics <POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>

On Fri, 24 Jul 1992 15:59:42 -0500 Jason Briggs Cormier said:
>MacPhil:
>
>>The ratings have little to do /c it.  The advantage to seeing a movie
>>in a theater late @ night during the last viewing is that there are
>>fewer children and young teens.  Beyond that, most parents drop their
>>kids off @ the door and pick them up two hours later.  And theatres
>>seem reluctant to screen people based upon age because of lost
>>revenue.
>
>Would you prefer strengthening the enforcement of such guidelines?
>Maybe having police at the entrance to cinemas?

I really don't have any preferences, so please don't try to suppose
what I may or may not prefer.  But having grown up in a community
which burned books not fifteen years ago and now living in a community
where a would-be politician favours removal of Bob & Tom from the
airwaves, I think the responsibility should be in the hand(s) of the
parents.  If they don't want their children to watch nasty stuff,
don't let them.  If you don't want them to hear suggestive lyrics,
turn off the radio.  The problem /c Tipper et al is they aren't
willing to be the censors and play the harda*s /c their children
by listening to an album they purchase and making them take it back
if they don't approve.  Far, far easier to attack entities outside
the household so they have a sanctuary to return to.  If they
have to hash it out /c their children, then it's an ongoing situation
which they have to face.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
When ambidextrous people can't do it right, we do it left.

MacPhil / iqti400@indycms.bitnet / iqti400@indycms.iupui.edu
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:42:00 EST
From:         ZIMMERJ@WABASH.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Language of violence

Robert:

While I must have missed the post that has generated such condemnation, I get
teh impression that you believe that homosexual acts are inherently sinful, or
some position like that.  I agree with this position.

However, stop and think about the ramifications of the "jokes" you posted.
While I can understand how one justifies hating a particular action, I cannot
understand a Christian rationale for hating the individuals who commit such
actions.  Moreover, your post contributed the the mistaken image (held by some)
of Christians as gay-bashers, while Christianity teaches exactly the opposite.

The next time you feel a need to make a wisecrack, please stop and think about
what you're saying before you do it.

Jason Zimmerman
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From: ANTHLAL@UMNACVX.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: can the disabilities act be extended to cover foreign policy?
Date: 31 Jul 92 15:22:41 GMT
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j.b. cormier, the paragon of economic policy that he is, has stated that
protecting a specific commodity is lame.  okay, i buy that.  this means,
then, that all foreign policy of all countries is basically lame.  u.s.
policy in central america was developed to protect specific commodities
in which u.s. companies had interests.  policy towards the new world was
developed to protect the market in slaves and gold.  what did you *think*
was the reason for the development of the world theater as we see it today?
(the first one to bring up ian mckellen, kenneth branagh, and satyajit ray
gets a prize....)
this approach to foreign policy...i.e., treating countries equably, with
no eye to profit/loss or the ability to control their resources, is a real
nice idea.  one might even call it kinder and gentler.  one might also call
it hopelessly naive.
                                   * * *anneliese"i had to do something to
                                        justify wasting bandwidth" l.
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:12:46 -0400
From:         KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU
Subject:      Re: How to defeat AIDS

Hi, Sean:
>(1) Avoid premarital sex
>(2) Avoid adultery
>
>Now I realize that AIDS can be transmitted by other means than by sex, such as
>giving blood in which an infected needle was used. But to the best of my
>knowledge, sex is the number one way it is transmitted. However, it is
>unfortunate that not everyone will all of a sudden abide by my to points. I
>really think that, while it probably won't eliminate AIDS completely, it will
>reduce it dramatically. Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Last I checked, the HIV virus doesn't ask to see copies of your marriage
license.  More to the point would be efforts to reduce the incidence of
promiscuous and unprotected intercourse.  To do this, though, you have to
learn why people engage in intercourse in the first place.  As I mentioned
earlier, the reasons are sometimes pretty simple, but not always.   While
you're doing that, you could lobby for increased spending for research into
protective measures that *women* can control.

Kerry
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 23:15:00 EST
From:         the anti-elvis <199561011@VUVAXCOM.BITNET>
Subject:      carl said:

somewhere along the line carl------+ said:

        "No matter what system is in place the same mistakes will
occur because we are human and are imperfect."

i think that it had to do with the children's rights thing, but i'm not
sure.  i was just wondering, carl, since we will make the same mistakes
no matter what, wouldn't we be just as well off in another system?
say feudalism?  or communism?

brni
"it is not enough
it is just a habit
nostalgia, its too much
our future is in our past"
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 16:00:00 EST
From:         "Peter J. Schledorn" <UNCPJS@UNC.BITNET>
Subject: Re: N-tickets

If my supporters will get me on the ballot in all 50 states, I
hereby solemnly promise to run for President.  Okay, 45 states
and Guam will do :-).

Best,
Peter SchledorN

(Detailed economic proposals and social engineering blueprints
to follow after an appropriate interval.  That's all I'm saying,
except that they won't be pretty . . . )
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1992 02:26:16 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      re: ... tough choice
              25 Jul 1992 06:01:39 GMT from <HUMPHRY@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU>

PLH:

You state that  outlawing abortion didn't work prior to 1973.  Please
elaborate.
                   --Missy Justice
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Date:         Sun, 26 Jul 1992 23:24:00 EDT
From:         "push the button, frank!" <SWEDE@DRYCAS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: this place is infested!

Uh-oh.  Here we finally had a truce, sort of, on debating theological
matters in politics, and Jimbo starts launching some mortar rounds on
Missy J (and she's the most reasonable of the theology-oriented persons
on the list - just wait 'till you read any of Robert's posts! :))

Gary W. "cuz God is a groovy    "Turn the tables with our unity,    -L7,
 guy, uh-huh, git down," Olson   they're not a moral nor majority.  "Pretend
SWEDE@DRYCAS.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU     Wake up and smell the coffee,       We're
                                 or just say no to individualty."    Dead"
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 09:23:53 -0400
From:         KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU
Subject:      Re: Pro-Choice and the GOP Convention

j.b.:
>If men must share legal responsibility after a child is born, why can't
>he share legal responsibility before?  Why is the right to abort purely
>the woman's perogative?
>
>For record, I am not pro-choice.  Everyone should be given a chance to
>live.  That is the way I see the issue.  I couldn't speak with a woman
>who chose to abort my child.  I would share responsibility in raising
>as is my right and duty, I couldn't accept losing a child that is as
>much mine as hers.

I'm adamantly pro-choice, but I think you've raised a valid point.  For
what it's worth, the close friends I know who've opted for abortion have
done so with the consensus of the man in question.  The friends I have
who've opted for carrying the baby to term are split:  two did so with at
least the financial support of the man in question, and two did so without
it.  I am willing to entertain the possibility that, were more men willing
to take on their full share of responsibility (not just financial), fewer
women would choose abortion.

Kerry
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 11:40:47 EDT
From:         jcs <GE777009@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Is Quayle pro-choice?

>From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
>
>Paul:
>
>You are incorrect.  Quayle is right.  If a D & C is done *immediately*
>after a rape (key word: immediately), there is almost no chance that
>conception has taken place, if the D & C is done within 72 hours of
>intercourse.  Sperm and egg do *not* meet instantaneously.  It takes
>a *little* time.
>                --MJ

other Kerry, if a d&c is done within that "little time" between
intercourse and conception, do you consider that a bad thing?
is that an abortion?

if it is not a bad thing, then where does the "abortion pill"
measure on the goodthing/badthing scale?  while i'm not
an expert on this thing, i was under the impression that
RU486 or whatever its called, was taken after intercourse...

would there be a difference if you took it 2 hours after or,
48 hours after? would there be legislation on how many hours
you can go before you take it? or do you think that that pill
shouldn't even be available?

not trying to bait anyone, just curious.

jenna
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
From: jwales@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (jimmy donal wales)
Subject: Re: N-tickets
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 23:40:10 GMT

N-tickets, please.

It is plainly obvious that only the J1/J2 ticket can possibly win.

--Jimbo

p.s. I'm back.

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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Sun, 26 Jul 1992 18:12:00 EST
From:         MING the Destroyer <199561011@VUVAXCOM.BITNET>
Subject:      j. danforth quayle: live or memorex?

uh, hi.

just to risk sticking my neck out for my foucaultian convictions,
i would like to say the following.

it doesn't matter what dan quayle actually said.  what matters is what
everyone else thinks he said, and how they interpret that.  once the
statement is made, the author of the statement is "dead" and meaning
and content come from the arrays of voices that hear, interpret, comment
on, and continually reinterpret the statement (namely, the press, the
masses, and the political damage control folk).

brni
"elected to power men suspend self interest"
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:13:53 -0400
From:         KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU
Subject:      Re: dumping Dan: myth or reality?

Missy J (and others, of course):
>I think that replacing Quayle would be a positive move *if* Quayle
>voluntarily removed himself from the ticket and was not perceived
>as having been *dumped*, and if Kemp were to take his place.  (I'm
>sure there are plenty of other high-impact positions Quayle could
>bargain for in the new administration.)  However, if Bush is perceived
>as *betraying* Quayle for political expedience, he will lose the
>hard-core conservatives (and any others who feel that Bush's treatment
>of Quayle was untoward.)  I like Quayle, but I like Kemp more.  And
>Bush is on thin ice with conservatives, so he would have to be very
>very careful about any such substitution.

This makes sense, as have the other responses.  But it kinda misses the
question my partner was asking:  even if Bush dumped Quayle, and this were
perceived as betrayal, what do you think the hard-core conservatives would
do?  They'd be mad, but would that prevent them from voting the Republican
ticket?  If they *didn't* vote for Bush, would they simply not vote?  (I
can't imagine they'd switch parties :))  And would any such loss of votes
be compensated for by an increase in votes from more moderate conservatives
?

Just out of curiosity, what do you like about Quayle?  Private e-mail is
fine on that one :)

Thanks
Kerry
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 12:45:24 -0400
From:         KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU
Subject: Re: hilary or carl? tough choice!

j.b.:
>        Is it that the laws don't work or that condidtions in
>        society make it harder for them to work?  Is it the
>        fault of the law that society "frowns" on this type
>        of behavior?
>
>        I know many people who advocate things like:
>
>        Children obey your parents. . . to the point that it
>        would be sin for them to report their parents.
>
>        Furthermore, I don't think that making it easier to
>        do something of this nature is going to help the
>        situation, but will bring a plethora of problems of
>        its own.

Are you suggesting something along the lines of "the proposals being
discussed treat the symptoms, not the disease"?  If so, I agree with you --
we need to fix the underlying problems.  But I also think we need a way of
dealing with current effects in the interim.  Now, I absolutely agree that
we seem to be really good at coming up with "solutions" that cause more
problems than they cure.  We therefore need to be really cautious in
implementing new legal methods.  To me, that means looking at specific
proposals and evaluating them carefully -- not just dismissing them out-of-
hand.

Kerry
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:14:00 EST
From:         ZIMMERJ@WABASH.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Financing the govt

j.b.:

>Some people in Europe think "their fair share" could be as high as 80%
>of their income.
>
>What do you think?

80% seems horribly draconian.  If it were a flat 80%, it would at least be
nondiscriminatory, but I would still oppose that level of taxation.  Since
European gov'ts are more welfare-oriented than ours, they are essentially
confiscating the wealth of their citizens and then giving it back, minus a
hefty brokerage fee.  While taxation is okay in the case of public goods (like
defense), an 80% tax rate is clearly unnecessary for these purposes.

If we had an 80% tax rate in this country, I would say its time to slash
spending and let people keep more of what they earn.  Since we're talking about
Europe, though, they can tax themselves into the Atlantic for all I care.

>-j.b.

Jason
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Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 15:53:42 EST
From:         MacPhil <IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU>
Subject:      Re: ratings for tv
Comments: To: Forum for the Discussion of Politics <POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>

On Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:54:52 EDT todd pukanecz said:

>This is an indication that the movie ratings system is screwed up.  In
>some European countries, ultraviolent, Rambo-like moves are given very
>harsh ratings while those with sexual themes are given lighter ratings.
>I would agree that graphic violence deserves an NC17 rating, while
>soft-core porn could be PG13.  Although I'm not a parent, if children
>are really that influenced by entertainment I think I'd rather have
>my kids smooching than smashing.

The ratings have little to do /c it.  The advantage to seeing a movie
in a theater late @ night during the last viewing is that there are
fewer children and young teens.  Beyond that, most parents drop their
kids off @ the door and pick them up two hours later.  And theatres
seem reluctant to screen people based upon age because of lost
revenue.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
When ambidextrous people can't do it right, we do it left.

MacPhil / iqti400@indycms.bitnet / iqti400@indycms.iupui.edu
From: 92price@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: The theme of men's magazines ...
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:16:41 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

Kerry writes:
> who thought the theme of all women's magazines was how to transform
> ourselves into the American male's ideal of feminine perfection . . .
> :)

That too, of course one has to remember the inverse is also true of men's
magazines--"the American women's ideal of masculine perfection" is someone who
is a self-centerred, egotistical, womanizing ass who is not only a jock, but 
apparently extremely wealthy too.  Of course, in both cases we are generalizing
about the taste and character of the American male/female, so that what we are
really talking about is shallow frat boy/sorority girl-types (who _may_
actually make up a majority, I don't know if that myth is true).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW, frat boys and sorority "chicks" deserve each other  |  Kai Alexis Price
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:35:03 EST
From:         MacPhil <IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU>
Subject:      Re: How to defeat AIDS
Comments: To: Forum for the Discussion of Politics <POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>

On Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:53:00 EST linda said:

>what would be nice would be research into a protective device that women could
>use to protect themselves. i know something of this sort was reported in the
>media some time ago (this past year maybe-don't remember-sorry). didn't appear
>to go over in a big way.  oh well.

You are referring to the "female condom" ?  Introduced in Europe but not
yet available here.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
When ambidextrous people can't do it right, we do it left.

MacPhil / iqti400@indycms.bitnet / iqti400@indycms.iupui.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 13:06:00 EDT
From:         "Carl A. Lahetta" <U952020@RUTADMIN.BITNET>
Subject: Re: hilary or carl? tough choice!

> From:         KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU
> Subject:      Re: Re: Re: hilary or carl? tough choice!
> To:           "Carl A. Lahetta" <U952020>
>
> Carl:
> >> But do the current laws really work?
> >
> >  Yes they do.
> Could you please expand on your answer?  I don't think you're suggesting
> that child abuse *doesn't* happen.  Perhaps you're suggesting that all
> cases of child abuse *are* resolved in favor of the best interest of the
> child?  That's not been my experience.  Moreover, I understand that at
> least some studies have demonstrated that some forms of abusive behavior
> never get reported.

  Kerry,
    I am not suggesting that child abuse does not happen and that all
    child abuse cases are resolved in the interest of the child.  Despite
    the tragedy of child abuse the way to eradicate it is not to furhter
    invade the sanctity of the family with laws that will be used by
    disgruntles teenagers to get back at their parents.  You also forgot
    about another side of the equation, what about parents that were
    mistakenly prosecuted and lost thier children and suffered harm from
    the system.  Their pain is just as unbearable and ghastly as the pain
    felt by abused children.  The system works, but it is not perfect and
    it will never be able to be *perfect* because of the human factor.
    Humans usually make wrong decisions, setting the guilty free sometimes
    and jailing the innocent sometimes.  No matter what system is in place
    the same mistakes will occur because we are human and are imperfect.

> Thanks
> Kerry


Carl---------+
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 09:09:38 -0500
From:         Jason Briggs Cormier <CORJB@RHODES.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: the upcoming war

brni:

>people in the united states can always leave and settle just about anywhere
>(except australia, which is even more picky about immigrations than we are)

fyi:  I believe that Switzerland has significantly stricter immigration
laws than either the US or Australia.

-j.b.
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 13:07:00 EST
From:         linda <SABOE@VUVAXCOM.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Language Of Violence

dear robert,
all your post managed to do was to shed light on how truly mean-spirited you can
be.
i doubt if even missy justice can come to your rescue with this pitiful display
of bad taste.
-linda
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