HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: erwin@bend.ucsd.edu (Sean Erwin)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: news about the Rio
Date: 7 Jan 1993 05:33:39 GMT
Organization: Linguistics Department, UCSD
NNTP-Posting-Host: bend.ucsd.edu

In article <73067@cup.portal.com> TRADER@cup.portal.com (Paul Vincent McGinnis) writes:
>Has the Rio got anything going for it gambling-wise ? I've never been inside
>the place. Besides the Brazilian style T&A they show in their ads, what's
>the big attraction ? 

Well, those outfits are definitely a lot more A than T, and yes, all their rooms
are suites.  Their buffet is the best in vegas for the money ($4.50 lunch).  And
their carpets are o-so-festive.  And they have real sand by the pool.
>
>Just curious - does anyone else think Vegas is getting overdeveloped? Maybe
>I've just felt the urge one too many times to mow down tourists with the
>rental car because hordes of them walk all over the middle of the street...

You haven't really been to Vegas until you've done a few vehicular manslaughters

Speaking of developments, that pyramid they're building by the Excalibur has
claimed another life, bringing the death toll to two.  Many people feel that
the building is 'jinxed' and many dealers at other Circus enterprises casinos
do not want to work there when it opens.  I guess that the pyramid design is
just does not lend itself to fatality-free construction.  Think of how many
people died building the originals in Egypt!
>
>Paul McGinnis / TRADER@cup.portal.com

---Sean

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: gustafso@lars.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Brian Gustafson)
Subject: BJ software
Organization: St. Olaf College; Northfield, MN
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 05:31:21 GMT

Hi...I'm sorry if this is mentioned in the FAQ, I don't have my copy
with me.  Could anyone recommend a good program or programs that
simulate BJ?  Macintosh preferred, but also PC and even UNIX would
be OK.  E-mail replies are fine.  Thanks!

					   Brian Gustafson
From: leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: The Price of Poker
Date: 6 Jan 93 22:25:08 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: diver.asd.sgi.com

In article <1ifdv3INNjc4@fido.asd.sgi.com> hashimoto@sgi.com (Roy Hashimoto) writes:
>
>On that note, how much are the dealers making?  The typical tip in Las
>Vegas for low-limit is fifty cents per hand, but it seems to be a dollar
>in California.  Say three rounds an hour, and we're talking about a $50K
>income in tips alone if they work the standard number of hours.  Are the
>dealers really doing that well?

I've wondered about that, but never asked.  I think $1 per hand is not an
unreasonable guess, and I see some of the wilder players throw $5-6 to the
dealer after a big pot.  It is, of course, a function of the dealer's speed.
San Jose area types - check out Gigi - a dealer at Garden City, who seems to
work mostly late shifts.  She's got big beautiful hands, deals at warp speed,
and makes the whole game hum like an 18K Rolex.  I wouldn't be surprised if
she's putting down 40-45 hands an hour.  

In terms of tips, I play in a $6-12.  I will tip a dealer a $1 if I won
any 4th street or later bets.  $.50 if not.  If I drag a humongous pot, 
I'll give 'em $2.  Theoretically, it shouldn't have any effect (i.e. a
poker dealer should be an automaton), but if from sheer pleasantness if 
nothing else, I think it helps (I have theories about other ways it helps
but won't go into it here).  Also, the way the $6-12 is raked, it's $3.50
on the button.  Since that creates a large number of $.50 chips, I often
toss them back to the very best dealers.  A dealer who runs a fast smooth
game is putting down more hands in the amount of time I'm there.  If I
have a positive expectation by playing, the more hands the better, so I
reward fast competent dealers.

One other factor that is somewhat orthogonal, but relevant: A *lot* of the
dealers put a *lot* of their pay back into the games from the players'
chairs.  As a rule, they are some of the worst players around.  Furthermore,
they tend to be very straightforward players (don't want to upset the 
customers).  I can't remember the last time a dealer check-raised me, and
I've had them show down absolute monsters on the end where they were sure
to get a bet called.

Regards, Lee
From: schumann@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Chris Schumann)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Just in case...
Date: 5 Jan 93 01:41:00 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center

anybody cares...

Ho-Chunk Menominee casino is now open 24 hours
800-362-8404 (might be good only in WI)
Near Wisconsin Dells on Hwy 12.

Newly expanded to about 20 BJ tables.
$3-$50, $5-200, $25-(i dunno)

Double after split, no resplitting,
dealer stands on A6.  Insurance pays 2:1.
6 Deck shoes.

New (fairly) casino in Bowler, WI
has $1 tables, 5 or 6 deck shoes
(can't remember), dealer HITS A6.

Keshena still has $2 tables, dealer
stands on A6, resplitting of any pair
(yes, even Aces), two deck shoes sometimes
available on $10 and $25 tables.  They pay
$25 to a first hand of 3 seven's, gratis!


I don't see any familiar names around here.
I didn't think I was gone THAT long.

Oh yes, Carnival Cruises trip to the Bahamas...
I was up $370 betting $5 units, but lost
some of it back (net plus $280).  Paid for
my airfare!  If I can do that some more, I
could see going twice a year!

(Book your flight early, and the cruise late.)


One more thing...

	were is the FAQ?  I've lost mine, and I'm
sure there is plenty of new stuff in it.

Thanks all.

chris
schumann@macc.wisc.edu
From: lance@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (lance.r.ogasawara)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Poker players that rathole chips
Summary: why would someone want to do this?
Date: 5 Jan 93 20:08:12 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <1icffeINNe60@seven-up.East.Sun.COM>, tahajian@aries.East.Sun.COM (David Tahajian - Sun BOS Software) writes:

...
> 
> The same thing was happening at my 6-12 limit 7 stud game at Foxwoods 
> over the break.
> 
> The ante is 50 cents, and since the lowest "chip" is $1, the dealer 
> breaks a roll of quarters to make change for the ante. Now the rake
> is initially 25 cents per player, so after everyone antes, the 
> dealer takes most of these quarters back into his rack.
>
...
> 
> So here I was playing next to an old guy (unshaven, unlit cigar in mouth, 
> old golf hat, never cracked a smile... i.e. a typical poker type) who kept 
> a stack of quarters behind his chips (so the dealer could not seem them). 
> He would never ante with 2 quarters, but always with a $1 chip to get 
> change. Whenever he had a bunch of quarters, he would pocket a few of them. 
> I was thinking of saying something, but he had $300-$400 in front of him, 
> so I didn't bother.
>

I'm a bit confused here, maybe I don't understand what "table stakes"
means. What would be the point of "rat holing" quarters? If the guy
wanted to pocket some of his winnings wouldn't it make more sense
to just some $1 or $5 chips in his pocket, or is this not allowed?

Lance
From: bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Poker players that rathole chips
Date: 5 Jan 1993 22:55:43 GMT
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, Arizona
NNTP-Posting-Host: stealth.intel.com

In article <1icffeINNe60@seven-up.East.Sun.COM> tahajian@east.sun.com (David Tahajian - Sun BOS Software) writes:
>The ante is 50 cents, and since the lowest "chip" is $1, the dealer 
>breaks a roll of quarters to make change for the ante. Now the rake
>is initially 25 cents per player, so after everyone antes, the 
>dealer takes most of these quarters back into his rack. In theory,

What is the actual rake?  If it's 5-10%, then the dealer has
to constantly track the pot with the rake, and the rake
usually includes several quarters.

That's where the silver goes in Vegas.

If the rake is really half the ante, then I wanna play at
Foxwoods forever.

Personally, I dislike having an odd number of quarters,
or much more than 4, in front of me, so I'll bet them as $1
calls (and antes of course) to reduce the stack and pocket
the odd one when I get below 8 of them and recognize I've
got an odd number.  This is probably my only superstition,
and it's more anal retentive than superstitious; the odd
quarter never seems to go away, even though it should be
paired up with the next odd quarter...  After an average
session (12 hrs) I'll end up with $3-6 or so in my pocket.
Anyone who bitches about that is asking to step outside.

				--Blair
				  "And call me a cab."
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: irwin@uvmark.uucp (Frank Irwin)
Subject: YAJR
Summary: Yet Another JR
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 93 15:51:33 GMT
Organization: VMARK Software, Inc.

In article <1ii9joINNic@jrzsun.hal.COM> jr@hal.COM (John Reed) writes:

[ Tournament article deleted. ]

>JR (John Reed)

I don't know about you folks, but I think we're getting dangerously close
to our UseNet allowance of JR's in one newsfroup.

				-- Frank (Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: weinstoc@sei.cmu.edu (Chuck Weinstock)
Subject: Re: Indian reservations
Organization: The Software Engineering Institute
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 09:11:25 EST


In article <ofGAzj_00iV004_r4z@andrew.cmu.edu>, Bruce Kerr <bk22+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
|> Concerning the post by Weinstock about the "Good gambling in Chi-town",
|> I'd like to know what is considered good by this group. Limits on bets
|> and on your winnings doesn't seem good to me. Next time anyone is in
|> Chicago and they would like some action why not just drive around lake
|> Michigan and play Poker, craps, roulett, blackjack, or video poker and
|> slots at one of the many Indian reservations in Michigan. They are
|> located in Mt. Pleasant, Traverse City, St. Ignance, and at the Soo.
|> These places are not that big for example TC has only three craps
|> tables, two roulett tables, 50 BJ tables and 100 or so video machines
|> but they are a hell of a lot better then the limit games you'd find at
|> any charity night. By the way, by year's end there will be one in
|> downtown Detroit seems the Indians have found a loop hole in the local
|> laws and have been donated a building by some local merchants; it
|> appears that it will be at least twice the size as the one in TC. Just
|> to pass on some other info of importance, Harra's has bought a large
|> piece of land in a town about 60 miles north on Detroit, They do plan to
|> build a Casino within the next 5 years. 
|> 

I wasn't claiming that the Rockford Casino Player's games were necessarily
good (though I suspect they are the best in the windy city.)  I was just
passing the information along.

Of the places you mention, I don't know where Mt. Pleasant is, but Traverse
City and St. Ignace are both a *long* way from Chicago (a many hours drive).
You are comparing apples and oranges.



Chuck Weinstock				weinstock@sei.cmu.edu
Software Engineering Institute		(412) 268-7719
Carnegie Mellon University		(412) 268-5758 (Fax)
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
From: leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: California Aces?
Date: 6 Jan 93 21:10:46 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: diver.asd.sgi.com

In article <1992Dec30.031758.21344@netcom.com> mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes:
>
>Hey gang -
>
>I know this has been asked before; apologies for my inattentiveness.
>I popped into Garden City today to try some Omaha.  Yeah, right -- 
>the place gave new meaning to the word "packed". 

I am told by Asian friends that the words "holiday" and "gambling" go together
like "peanut butter" and "jelly".  Around any major holiday, you will find
Garden City PACKED with folks.

> I watched a little
>of the California Aces and was mildly intrigued (though it's beyond
>me how CA can keep up this charade of not permitting gambling).

Nobody said California prohibits gambling.  It prohibits house-banked
games, which California Aces (C) is not.  Off the top of my head:

1. You can't count cards.  They shuffle between every deal.

2. Most people are totally clueless how to play.  In gambling in general,
   this gives you an overlay if you know what you're doing. 

3. Like pai-gow poker, there may be a way to get an advantage if you're banker.

Regards, Lee
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: s4lawren@student.business.uwo.ca (Stephen Lawrence)
Subject: Re: Roulette data
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:34:11 GMT
Keywords: Eudaemonic Pie

adkins@singha.eng.ohio-state.edu (Kenneth C. Adkins) writes:

> 
> I just got done reading "The Eudaemonic Pie" by Thomas Bass, which has
> been discussed in the past in this group.  I guess I was a little
> disappointed with the book, because I wanted more details.  (It seems
> obvious that Bass is not a techy.)  Anyway, in a fit of curiosity, I
> started playing with the physics of estimating where the roulette ball
> would land on the wheel.  I think I've got the basic equations, but I
> had to make some assumptions (e.g. the only significant drag on the
> ball is wind resistance, as was reported in the book) that I cannot
> verify without a wheel or some data on a wheel.  So now the question
> is: do any of you have any real world data on something like this?
> Better yet, does anyone own a roulette wheel in the Columbus, OH area?
> OK, maybe I'm asking a bit much with that one.  It's just that I'd
> hate to waste any significant portion of time at a casino taking data
> if it turns out not to be practical.  One last question: (I'm assuming
> that the story is true here) do any of you know any of the characters
> in the book? (What?  It's possible.)
> 
> Please email any response, as our SysAdm just restricted this group to
> expire articles 4 times per day!!
> 
> Thanks,
> Ken
> 
> -- 
>                                             ____________
> Kenneth C. Adkins                          /           /  
>                -------8888888888===========------------ 
> adkins@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu               \___________\  

        I have a warehouse full of them on a farm outside of North Las 
Vegas.  I'd be glad to make a deal, but I really would recommend that you 
look into regression forcasting systems to predict normal distribution in 
the Roulette cycle.
        For instance, the Rabinowitz sub sampling regression system has 
been discussed here on several occasions and I think that a lot of people 
have made a lot of money at this method of numerical prediction using 
regression analysis.
        Rabinowitz sub sampling ("RSSM") also works accurately on "Pai 
Dow" (or whatever the hell it's called), Baccarat and versions of Red Dog 
and Carribean Stud.
        Be glad to send you the details!

        David Harrisburg

s4lawren@student.business.uwo.ca (Stephen Lawrence)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: gribble@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (steve gribble)
Subject: Re: Atlantic City
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 20:32:43 GMT

Speaking of Atlantic City--which hotels do people consider
as the nicest place to stay and which are best for gambling.  
Primarily, blackjack, poker, and craps.

thanks,
steve gribble


Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: irwin@uvmark.uucp (Frank Irwin)
Subject: Re: Poker in Las Vegas (and ratholing)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 18:26:34 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: VMARK Software, Inc.

In article <1993Jan11.230525.21943@ntg.com> slandrum@ntg.com (Stephen H. Landrum) writes:
>
>It did not seem that Vegas was the place to look for weak poker
>players.  By far the majority of players in the games there seemed to
>be locals.

From my experience there back in November, I'm convinced that the locals
aren't really something to be afraid of.  True, they may play tighter than
a lot of tourists, but that doesn't mean they are good players.

You wouldn't think that the house would want to use shills and props that
are so good that they would wipe out the tourists bankrolls in a matter of
minutes, would you?  I wouldn't.  The best thing for the house is to have
full tables, not a bunch of people that they're paying to play.  The house
makes their money from the rake, so they want to keep the game going as
long as possible.

We had a local at our table ($3-6 Omaha Hi-Lo) who said that he wasn't
happy unless he was winning $50/hour.  He wasn't a bad player, but I
never saw him making anywhere near that much.  (Unless, of course, he
was ratholing. :-)

Don't be intimidated by locals, especially the dealers.

-- 
 ============================================================================
 Frank Irwin                | "I've got 5 tokens.  You've got 5 tokens.
 Vmark Software, Inc.       |  Let's get us a room."
 irwin%uvmark@merk.com      |           -- New pick-up line at the Frontier
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: latto@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Andrew Latto)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Poker in Las Vegas (and ratholing)
Date: 6 Jan 1993 18:22:31 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu
Summary: Where should I play?

I'm going to Vegas in a couple of weeks (Jan 20-25, for the Nevada
State Backgammon Championship; will any other rec.gamblers be there?)
and am looking for recommendations as to where to play poker. What I'm
looking for is:

Low stakes ($5-$10 or less)
Variety of games (7-stud, Hold-'em, Omaha, both high and 8-or-better,
	7-stud-high-low)
Low rakes
Some weak players so I don't lose my shirt.

Which casinos are best for the poker player?

Which casinos have poker tournaments?

Can poker players expect anything in the way of comps?

On the subject of ratholing, why does anyone care if another player
ratholes? The ratholing player could get up, and be replaced by a new
player with less money, which would have the same effect on the money
on the table as ratholing. If the casino wasn't crowded, the ratholer
could even get back into the game himself, and put any amount he
wanted on the table. Conventional wisdom (which I don't necessarily
buy) is that sitting down with only the minimum buy-in is a bad idea.
So if the ratholing player wants to sit down with less money in front
of him for the next hand, and this is a bad idea for him, it must be
good for you, so why should you complain?

I'm assuming the ratholing is taking place between hands. Changing the
amount of money in front of you in the middle of the hand obviously
shouldn't be allowed, though as long as the game is limit, and total
amount the ratholer has in front of him stays large enough that he
won't be all in on that hand, it still seems harmless to me.

					Andy Latto
					latto@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu
From: bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Roulette data
Date: 7 Jan 1993 23:29:07 GMT
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, Arizona
NNTP-Posting-Host: stealth.intel.com
Keywords: Eudaemonic Pie

In article <oJ9ywB2w165w@student.business.uwo.ca> s4lawren@student.business.uwo.ca (Stephen Lawrence) writes:
>        Rabinowitz sub sampling ("RSSM") also works accurately on "Pai 
>Dow" (or whatever the hell it's called), Baccarat and versions of Red Dog 
>and Carribean Stud.

I think this is the funniest posting I've seen in
a year, but I think Mikey would have to find it
even funnier, so I'll keep looking for something
more along my line...

				--Blair
				  "You want fries with that?"
From: slandrum@ntg.com (Stephen H. Landrum)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Poker in Las Vegas (and ratholing)
Date: 11 Jan 93 23:05:25 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: New Technologies Group, Inc.  Palo Alto CA

In article <1if817INN8e1@life.ai.mit.edu> latto@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Andrew Latto) writes:
>I'm going to Vegas in a couple of weeks (Jan 20-25, for the Nevada
>State Backgammon Championship; will any other rec.gamblers be there?)
>and am looking for recommendations as to where to play poker. What I'm
>looking for is:
>
>Low stakes ($5-$10 or less)
>Variety of games (7-stud, Hold-'em, Omaha, both high and 8-or-better,
>	7-stud-high-low)
>Low rakes
>Some weak players so I don't lose my shirt.
>
>Which casinos are best for the poker player?
>
>Which casinos have poker tournaments?
>
>Can poker players expect anything in the way of comps?
 [ Ratholing discussion deleted ... ]
>					Andy Latto
>					latto@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu

Well, I just got back from Vegas (I was there for CES).

Binions Horseshoe had 15 tables, and they had 1-4-8, 4-8 and 10-20
Hold'em and 4-8 Omaha.  They might have had some other games going as
well, but I didn't notice.  Their tables were generally pretty full.
I played 1-4-8 and wasn't quite used to the betting structure or the
general tightness of the players.  There were some suckers at the
table, but they seemed to run out of money quick and leave.  I didn't
do very well at this game.  The rake at Binion's is 5%.  Max. rake is
$2 at the 1-4-8.

C^2 has 12 tables in their cardroom, but they didn't have many games
going when I was there, and the friends I was with wanted to play BJ.

The Stardust has 12 tables in their cardroom, and I played 3-6 Hold'em
there for a couple of hours Sunday morning.  I felt right at home at
this game, and came out $165 ahead.  It felt pretty much like poker in
the California cardrooms, except again that the players were just a
little tighter than I was used to.  At the time I played (3-5am) they
only had a couple of games going.  The rake was 10% with a $2.50 max
rake.  They also took up to $.50 for a bad beat jackpot, so the rake
actually maxed at $3.00.

The Stardust has freeroll tournaments if you log enough hours in their
cardroom, but that would be assuming you are staying in Vegas for quite
a while.

It did not seem that Vegas was the place to look for weak poker
players.  By far the majority of players in the games there seemed to
be locals.

I wouldn't expect much other than free drinks for comps since the house
is making no more than the rake (unless they have the game seeded with
shills and proposition players).

Check out the Card Player magazine for upcoming tournaments and times.
-- 
Stephen H. Landrum                                        VOICE: (415) 813-8909
        Domain: slandrum@ntg.com           UUCP: ...netcomsv!ntg!slandrum
 USNAIL: New Technologies Group Inc. 2470 Embarcardero Way, Palo Alto CA 94303
From: dcc@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com (Don Cameron)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 21:02:49 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: hold'em trivia
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.gambling

: >If you want to make a straight in hold'em, what are the best two cards
: >to start with?  I was analyzing starting hands and this question came
: >up because the numbers I was getting ran counter to my intuition.  In
: >fact, I was pretty sure I had found a bug.
: >
: >I thought that the best hand would be something like 87, giving you
: >plenty of room in both directions to fill the straight.  But 65 and T9
: >are marginally better, and surprisingly, 54 and JT are better still.
: >This last result is what astonished me.  I had to work the combinatorics
: >by hand before I believed it.
: 
: This makes sense when you realize that you can't have a straight without
: having a 5 or a T.  I don't understand, though, why a 65 would be any better
: than a 54, and JT better than a T9.

I'm probably belaboring the obvious, but using both hole cards, JT is the
only holding that can flop four different nut straights.

I also fail to see why 54 should be better than 65.

dcc