HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: elster@cs.cornell.edu (Anne C. Elster)
Subject: Re: Speak for yourself (Was: Serpae Tetra beating goldfish)
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 05:52:28 GMT

In some previous post I wrote in an article about fancy goldfish, etc:
>...
>Die-hard fish hobbyists tend to have aversions for anything "fancy" --
>Guess we feel there  is something unnatural about them. A similar dislike
>exisits for painted/died fish (cruel).

Followed by some lengthy posts.


Seeing the respose, I guess I should have used a weaker statement than
"tend to have". Sigh! All I tried to do was warn the novices on this
group that they may encounter unexpected biases re. aestethics from some
of the posters here.. 

I will be the first to agree that which fish we find the most beautiful
(or not as appealing) is, unlike technical things like water quality and
such, highly subjective notions. As a foreigner (in the U.S.) I am also
well aware of how cultural, etc. these attitudes can be.

I am not going to defend my notions of finding fancy goldfish and long-finned
danios more unnatural than, say guppies. After all, we live in an "unnatural"
world. (Where would we have been w.o. chemistry and modern medicine?)

All I can say is that, to me, the fancy goldfish LOOK more unnatural and
uncomfortable.  Granted I find the notion of painted fish even more repulsive
since that brings to mind plain cruelty, but who am I to prove that painted
fish are more uncomfortable than any of my tropicals? All I can say is that
I rather not have these creatures as pets.
 
So I prefer sandy colored gravel, solid dark backgrounds and live plants
over bright multicolored accessories. So what? I also dislike the concept of,
piercing my ears, shaving my legs and wearing make-up. That doesn't mean
I don't get along with Synoeve, my fancy-goldfish-keeping friend who gave
me my first fish bowl, most American women, and so on. 

To paraphrase a Norwegian proverb:

	"Taste is like your behind -- it is split." :-)

						
To comment on my original point of suggesting that we include a warning
against mixing gold fish and tropicals:

David Pocock of Australia just sent me a note saying that he has had
great success in mixing goldfish (up to 7 yrs old) w/ tropicals.

I am sure there are exception to just about any advice one can give.
I would still not recommend mixing gold fish and tropicals for beginners.
That doesn't mean one shoould always follow the general advice. Hey, 
as a researcher I thrive on the unusual and unknown! :-) 

						Anne C. Elster







Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
From: ron@minnow.sp.unisys.com (Ron Burns)
Subject: Re: Bio Filter     Also another Small Marine tank setup...10 gallon
Reply-To: ron@minnow.UUCP (Ron Burns)
Organization: Unisys Corporation
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 14:45:51 GMT

Here's the method I came up with for my 10 gallon fish/invert tank.
I use a Hagen Aqua Clear 150 hang-on-the-back filter.  I use the open
cell foam on the bottom as the mechanical filter, as reccomended.  I also
placed the carbon bag in, as the top layer (this may be adequate surface area
on it's own).  But the key is the middle layer.  
Go to a crafts store and ask for plastic canvas.  This stuff is plastic mesh
with enough rigidity to hold it's shape, but flexible enough to bend around
corners and it cuts easily. 
I used it to form a box that fits inside the filter box.  I filled the plastic
canvas box with ceramic Bio-Beads. Sewwed it up with monofilament fishline. 
Since this was the initial setup of my first marine aquarium, and I wanted
to minimize new tank cycle time.  So I used the Frit-zyme bacteria culture
product.  Since it was the BioBeads I wanted seeded, I immersed the newly
made bioball box with dry beads into the fritzyme solution.  The bacteria was
'sucked' directly into the beads.  Then I dumped the remainder of the dosage
into the tank, placed the loaded filter basket into the filter, and ran it.
Works great.

Current inhabitants of the 10 gallon tank are:
around 5 pounds of live rock (doesn't even cover the floor of the tank)
the rock has various mussel/clam/barnacle/things, TINY feather duster type
tube worms, christmas tree worms, initially (after a month or so) three
anenomies, now, at last count, 8 anenomies.  They're multiplying! 
1 - Blue Devil Damsel
1 - Picasso Triggerfish (small, about 1/2" longer than the damsel)
2 - Turbo snails who insist on rearranging the rocks by pushing them around
the bottom of the tank.

Filtration:
AquaClear 150 prepared as above.
Home made protein skimmer.
NO substrate.  Bare glass.  DEFINATELY the way to go!

Lighting:
one 15W Ultra Tri Lume.

Tank running for 6 months now.  Only fatalities have been of some temperate 
climate crabs forced to live in the 80 degree water.  Held on for 4 months,
though!  No losses of tropical specimens.

------
In article <1992Aug19.145546.29828@Cadence.COM> bruceg@Cadence.COM (Bruce Gustifson) writes:
>
>... to take an old breeding trap that was laying around, putting a hole in 
>the bottom to fit the uplift tube of the filter through, and hanging it under 
>the return of the whisper. I put a small amount of filter pad on the bottom 
>of the trap so the gravel wouldn't fall through the slits in the trap, and 
>filled it to 3/4 height with clean gravel. No more problems with nitrite

-- 
Ron Burns              
Unisys Corporation                                      ...!rosevax!minnow!ron
Phone:(612)635-6927                           minnow%ron@rosevax.rosemount.com
Xref: sparky rec.aquaria:7082 alt.aquaria:4887
From: ouyang@yoko.rutgers.edu (Ming Ouyang)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria
Subject: zeolite
Keywords: water softening
Date: 3 Sep 92 20:41:23 GMT
Followup-To: rec.aquaria
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


According to the FAQ, zeolite can exchange "hard" metal ions for
"soft" ones. And it can be reactivated by immersing it in salt water.
Now there is a product by Aquarium Pharm* called water softening
pillow. Is it simply a bag of zeolite in a bottle of salt water?
If no, is it much more efficient than zeolite in water softening?

-- Ming Ouayng
   ouyang@paul.rutgers.edu
From: mattk@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (matthew.kaufman)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Hurricane Andrews Damage
Summary: Follow-up (Old World Tropicals)
Date: 2 Sep 92 12:56:09 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <36889@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> cichlid@pine.circa.ufl.edu writes:
>
>Relax! Most of the fish farms in Florida are in the Tampa area, not near
>Miami. There are dozens of fish farms down here and only one or two
>have been damaged. If you see price increases, someone is cashing in
>on the disaster!

I checked with Dr. Loiselle last night. He'd spoken with Laif De Maison on
Monday. Old world's 'fish house' got flattened and that's not great, but
the breeding operation (the source of most of the store-bought rift lake
cichlids that Laif sells) was largely undamaged. Laif is fine as well.
-- 
"I am the chosen one."  | Copyright 1992 mattk@usl.com. Permission for
                        | reproduction in printed media or by pay-for-read
"And I Choose to be     | services explicitly disallowed. Permission granted to
shopping!"              | USENET and like free facilities.
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria
From: johnmc@btree.uucp (John McCaffrey)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 16:51:07 GMT
Organization: Brooktree Corporation
Subject: Re: Nitrex Box
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Organization: Brooktree Corporation, San Diego
Keywords: 

In article <410@bertha.HyperDesk.com> arch@hyperdesk.com writes:
>It appears from test results and observation the my Nitrex box is
>working.  My nitrates have moved from about 100 ppm to 44 ppm.  While
>I was cleaning my tank last night, I "poked" the top of the Nitrex box
>(with the UGF vacuum) and a few large bubbles (presumably of N2) came
>out. 

I, too, have been using a Nitrex Box on my 55g. fish-only marine tank
with UGF.  I've had it for almost 2 years now and am convinced that it
works.  When I first installed it, my nitrates were at about 40 ppm. 
Over about 5 months, they were reduced to about 10 ppm.  During that
time, N2 bubbles would occaisionally appear.  Poking the box also forced
many bubbles out.

Since that time, I moved and re-setup the whole aquarium.  This time I
installed the Nitrex Box with fresh media from the start.  To date (one
year later) I still read 0 ppm Nitrates!  I never see any bubbles
either, but I assume that's because the nitrate removal is so gradual
you can't see it.  The bottom line is: I'm pleased with it.

The only problem I have is that gravel continually gets trapped in the
box opening.  I guess, if it gets bad enough, it could impede the flow
of water into and out of the box.  I just clean it out every few water
changes and everything seems fine.

=======================================================================
John McCaffrey                                   Brooktree Corporation
btree!johnmc@ucsd.com                            San Diego, CA
=======================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria,sci.aquaria
From: Igor Livshits <igorl@uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: What Invert is that? book
X-Xxdate: Mon, 31 Aug 92 20:56:41 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
Organization: NCSA
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 20:02:33 GMT
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A6C7E3A9080114C6@spiff.ncsa.uiuc.edu>

While we are on this topic :-) I have an invert that I simply cannot find
any references on.  It is a worm that build a hard ube about 1/8"
diameter.  He has two "horns' that look similar to feather duster gills. 
Mostly nocturnal, he gets food by releasing a 'silk' thread and then
reeling anything that it ctaches in.  He has been eating hair algae quite
actively in the past.  However, all the hair algae is gone at this point
(low nitrates and phosphates, and a voracious pencil urchin).

His tube is a nifty white and brown striped.  He came with a green star
polyps rock.

Does anyone know what this animal is?  And, will he perish due to this
lack of algae?

Many thanks, igor
Xref: sparky rec.aquaria:6916 alt.aquaria:4792
From: putzolu@toadflax.cs.ucdavis.edu (David Putzolu)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria
Subject: Lighting: Why spend big $?
Date: 30 Aug 92 06:14:13 GMT
Followup-To: rec.aquaria
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of California, Davis

Since I'm converting my marine tank to a semi/full (we'll see)
reef setup, I naturally am getting better lighting for it. Looking
through the two mail order catalogs I have (TFP & MOPS) I've noticed
EXORBITANT prices for lighting.
TFP: Ballast for two 40 watt bulbs: 22.95
MOPS: Generic Double Strip 48" Hood (w/o bulbs): 82.49
TFP: Dual Light Strip: 99.95
MOPS: 48" Fluorescent Fixture Kit (w/o bulb, hood): 26.35 per light.

I was looking at this stuff and my girlfriend wandered over and said,
"Hey, I can get a cheapo metal generic dual 48" fluorescent 40W fixture
for $12 at the hardware store!"
If I can put a couple of these in a wood hood that I make, why should
I bother with the above prices? Is there something about the above that is
particularly worth it?

As a second question, would 4 48" fluorescent bulbs (perhaps
two coralife 50/50's and two tritons or blue moons) for a total
of 160 watts be enough for live rock + anemone's? I will probably
use my old 20Watt 36" as well for a total of 180 Watts - is this
enough? I want to _avoid_ metal halide if possible - price seems
quite high. Also, why isn't this in the FAQ? Perhaps a new 
addition to the FAQ list is in order: FAQ.lighting
IF I get enough info from people about lighting configs,
etc., I will work do one myself. Thanks for any info!

-David (that new guy who is incessantly posting on *.aquaria!)

| David M. A. Putzolu               | putzolu@cs.ucdavis.edu              |
| Senior Undergraduate              | op disclaimer(opinion : ptr mine)   |
| Computer Science and Psychology   |      Money? Who needs money?        |
| University of California at Davis |          I've got fish!             |
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
From: frazier@kona.cs.ucla.edu (Gregory Frazier)
Subject: Re: [F] Serpae Tetra beating the tar out of goldfish!?
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 23:18:30 GMT

 (HCM100@psuvm.psu.edu) wrote:
: 
: Thoughts on the matter:  are two too few?  (read that fast!)  Do they
: need a school so that they can beat each other and not the goldfish?

Bingo.  Schooling fish like to be in schools, where they spend
their time playing dominance games.  With only one other tetra
in the tank, your dominant tetra recruited a new player.  Getting
more serpae (or closely related) tetras *should* help, but there
are no guarentees - goldfish are just an easy mark.  Note that
comment about "closely related" - I don't know how true that is.
I've had African and S. American characins successfully school
together, but I don't think there are any guarentees for two
species successfully inter-schooling.  Buying more serpaes is
your best bet.

--
"They thought to use and shame me but I win out by nature, because a true
freak cannot be made.  A true freak must be born." - Geek Love

Greg Frazier	frazier@CS.UCLA.EDU	!{ucbvax,rutgers}!ucla-cs!frazier
Xref: sparky rec.aquaria:7086 alt.aquaria:4890
From: steve@celia.UUCP (Steve Tyree)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria
Subject: Re: [M][R] Improving Captive Reef Base Rock
Keywords: reef marine coralline live rock
Date: 4 Sep 92 00:21:33 GMT
Reply-To: celia!steve@usc.edu (Steve Tyree)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Rhythm & Hues, Inc., Hollywood

In article <1992Sep3.181649.24207@javelin.sim.es.com> krogers@javelin.sim.es.com writes:
>ron@minnow.sp.unisys.com (Ron Burns) writes:
>>I, too, have planned a similar arrangement on this 100g project.  I was 
>>thinking of having the sump return line go clear to the bottom of the tank,
>>and then run the length of the tank along the back wall/floor corner.  
>>I would cap the end, and drill several small holes in the pipe to shoot water 
>>across the floor of the tank, beneath the egg crate.  In an ideal world, I 
>>would come up with a flow pattern which would cause detritus to 'pile up' in 
>>one or two areas for easy removal.  We'll see.
>
>My tank is set up this way.  The detritus does indeed collect at the
>front for easy siphoning.  It works nicely.

 My reef tank is 2 feet deep in the section where I am installing a elevation
system. I dont think that just one pvc pipe along the back wall will be enough
to push detritus all the way to the front edge. Therefore, I will need a pvc
manifold matrix system. If I construct the matrix correctly the need for egg
crate could be eliminated. My worries about egg crate are animals getting 
trapped under or in crate, screen cover on crate trapping air or inhibiting
water flow and inability to access bottom of tank through crate. So, the
manifold matrix will be 3 1/2 inch square open rectangles with rows and 
columns of 3/4 inch pvc pipe separating them. This will mean that long rocks
will be needed for the base and smaller rocks can be put on top of them.
The 3 1/2 inch square open areas should allow plenty of access for any maint-
enance that needs to be performed. Also, the matrix might be lifted off the
bottom by 1 inch solid acrylic cubes. This will allow room for fish to swim
freely under reef. Thas the basic outline so far. Will edit mail responses
for posting here later and will start construction this weekend. Any comments
or suggestions will be welcomed.

 Steve Tyree - Reef Breeder
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria
From: faith@wam.umd.edu (Jay)
Subject: Re: 
Summary: Ammonia Removal
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:42:42 GMT

Does anyone know if that ammonia removal stuff you put in your
filters can be re-charged?  I forget the name of it.

Jerome.
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria
From: russell@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (David Russell)
Subject: Re: Suggestions for a Long, Short Tank
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:25:49 GMT

From article <1992Aug28.131314.18532@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov>, by mstephens.520@postman.gsfc.nasa.gov (mark stephens):
> Why not tie the two tanks together? There are many options depending
> on the specific setup you have.  The bonus tank becomes the sump.
> But you can still put fish in there.  You  might simply put a submersable
> pump capable of a good flow at 4' of head (Eheim ?) and use an overflow
> box on the 55.  A large school of fish that like to live in strong 
> water flow (and it won't be THAT strong) would look great.  Make it 
> into a stream!
> 
>            mark
> 
  Great Idea, I'm going to have to remember that. What do you suggest
for fish. My first thought was White Cload Mountain fish. The ones
I have spend a lot of time in the UGF's exhaust 'playing in the current.
As I understand it they come from small streams. A good choice?

--
David M. Russell, Mechanical Eng. Dept.
Clarkson University, Potsdam, NY 13676
(315) 268-9806 
russell@sun.soe.clarkson.edu
Xref: sparky rec.aquaria:6850 alt.aquaria:4767
From: ahughes@arch386.hyperdesk.com (Arch Hughes)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria
Subject: Nitrex Box
Date: 27 Aug 92 19:14:41 GMT
Reply-To: arch@hyperdesk.com
Organization: HyperDesk Corporation

It appears from test results and observaction the my Nitrex box is
working.  My nitrates have moved from about 100 ppm to 44 ppm.  While
I was cleaning my tank last night, I "poked" the top of the Nitrex box
(with the UGF vacuum) and a few large bubbles (presumably of N2) came
out. 

(Note that neither result/observation is definitive.  The Nitrates
could have dropped because of changes in feeding habits, my putting an
additional lift tube on my UGF, or my new use of floss in my power
filter with twice per week replacement there of.  The bubbles could be
collected CO2 or O2 condensed out of the water, but I don't know what
would have caused it to collect there.)

The N2 is supposed to "stream" out of the slot at the top of the
Nitrex box.  It's collection in the box could be problematic, causing
the box to eventually float, or killing the nitrate-eating bacteria
eventually.  Poking the box every once in awhile won't be too
much trouble.  Anyway, isn't that every male's ambition?  8-)

-- 
o o|  Arch Hughes, HyperDesk Corp.        Phone   508-366-5050 x103
o o|  Suite 300, 2000 West Park Dr.       Fax     508-898-3841
---+  Westboro, MA   01581                E-Mail  arch@hyperdesk.com
Xref: sparky rec.aquaria:7005 alt.aquaria:4844
From: joanm@moe.coe.uga.edu (Joan Maxfield UCNS)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Goldfish sick: Help
Date: 29 Aug 92 18:02:17 GMT
Organization: College of Education, University of Georgia


Sounds like a fungus to me.  Get yourself some books on fish diseases
and care (at tthe library or bookstore, heck my Wal-Mart carries
some!) and see if you can't recognise it.  Then invest in some
fungiside to clear it up.  You may also try some aquarium salt to
reduse stress.  Do it quick before he dies!  Goldfish are alot of fun,
I'm glad to see yours in in a 20g tank.  My 5 goldfish are all about
7inches each!  Do your friend a favor and read up about his care so
he'll live a good long time!

Hope that helps!

Joan
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
From: lee@nova.npac.syr.edu (Lee C Brink)
Subject: Re: [F] Setup for plants and fish
In-reply-to: booth@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM's message of 25 Aug 92 18:57:24 GMT
Organization: Northeast Parallel Architectures Center (NPAC)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 18:39:47 EDT

In article <2800200@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> booth@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (George Booth) writes:

   Gee, Lee, check a ruler when you get a chance.  10 mm is a little over 
   3/8" - more like rocks than aquarium gravel!  The sandblasting gravel we
   use is about 2-3 mm (roughly 1/16 to 1/8"). 

Hey, I never said I could eyeball small sizes :-).

      Lee

(Ah well.  That's what I get for guessing)

--
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Lee C Brink	            | Office Support Co-ordinator at NPAC	   |
| lee@nova.npac.syr.edu     | Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY 13244-4100 |
|			    | 315-443-1722				   |
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
Xref: sparky rec.aquaria:6787 alt.aquaria:4726
From: oleg@Veritas.COM (Oleg Kiselev)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria
Subject: Re: Novaqua and phosphates
Date: 26 Aug 92 07:58:55 GMT
Reply-To: oleg@veritas.com (Oleg Kiselev)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Palo Alto Killifish Loft
X-Disclaimer: I speak for myself only unless explicitly indicated otherwise

jony@microsoft.com (Jon Yeargers) writes:
>what do you  recommend for water conditioners? We are having a drought
>here in Seattle right now, so the city is putting 2-3x chlorine in

Use sodium thiosulphate -- available cheap in large quantities from chemical 
supply houses, or at outrageous prices in small diluted quantities from
the pet shops.  It works great on chlorine.

For ammonia/chloramines I find AmQuell to be the most reliable.
-- 
"Republicans understand the importance of bondage between a mother and 
child." -- Dan Quayle
 
Oleg Kiselev                                             oleg@veritas.com
From: frazier@kona.cs.ucla.edu (Gregory Frazier)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Plastic Coasters, Water, Mail-Order
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:48:33 GMT
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

cliff (cliff@watson.ibm.com) wrote:
: 1. I am setting up a 110 gallon tank on a tile floor in the basement.  The
: 12x12 tiles are on concrete.   I have a metal stand. I was told I should
: not put the stand directly on the tiles because it could crack or scratch them.	
: Is this true?  Should I buy those little plastic coasters one puts under
: the legs of chairs, or will the weight of the tank crack any plastic coaster?

Of course it's true.  Have you ever droped a piece of tile?  They
break.  And, yes, your tank probably will eventually split a
plastic coaster.  I would put squares of plywood down.  How to
make this look good?  I don't know...
 
: 2. In the tank I am setting up, should I add some water from a stable
: tank I already have before adding fish to help get the
: bacterial population get started.

Some water will help, but some of the filter material from
your established filter will do more.  Put some of the
material from your old filter into the new one (if you are
using a UG filter, trade some of the gravel between the two).

--
"They thought to use and shame me but I win out by nature, because a true
freak cannot be made.  A true freak must be born." - Geek Love

Greg Frazier	frazier@CS.UCLA.EDU	!{ucbvax,rutgers}!ucla-cs!frazier
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
From: jimh@ultra.com (Jim Hurley)
Subject: Blue Gouramis for free
Organization: Ultra Network Technologies
Distribution: ba
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 21:20:46 GMT

I have a whole tankful of blue gourami fry that are now
1/2->3/4" in size. In another month I'll probably sell them
to a local store.

If anyone in the area wants some for free, drop me a line.

-- 
Jim Hurley --> jimh@ultra.com  ...!ames!ultra!jimh  (408) 922-0100
Ultra Network Technologies / 101 Daggett Drive / San Jose CA 95134