From: jay@metran.UUCP (Jay Ts)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: media permanence (was Re: photo-developing, specifically nudes)
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:52:58 GMT
Organization: Metran Technology, Tampa, Florida

gsnow@clark.edu (Gary Snow) writes:
: In article <1992Aug19.182734.871@craycos.com> sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi) writes:
: >In article <1992Aug19.155539.17331@clark.edu> gsnow@clark.edu (Gary Snow) writes:
: >>
: >>Hold it, are you trying to tell me that a B&W PRINT can out live its digital
: >>counter-part?  I don't think so.
: >
: >An archivally processed B&W print ought to be good for a few centuries.
: >That may or may not be true of a Photo-CD. You pays your money and you takes
: >your chances.
: 
: What kind of process is that, "archivally processed B&W print", and what does
: it do to help an image retain its ORIGINAL likeness?

Hmm, Gary is apparently maintaining that Photo CD will outlive a B&W print,
and doesn't know what an archivally-processed B&W print is.  Now I understand!

				:-)

I guess I should know better than to post on this subject, it being another
form of the "Analog vs. Digital Religious War" that appears in various
newsgroups from time to time.

All I want to say is this:  Can we please get real?  Neither the conventional
(analog) technology nor the new digital technology are perfect.  (If this is
news to you, please send your remarks to alt.flame :-)

As far as reliability goes, each technology has its own failure mode.  The
tendency is for analog to fade, subject to signal loss, noise and distortion,
but staying somewhat recognizeable.  Digital tends to retain integrity up
to a point, but then loses wildly due to what may seem to be a relatively
minor problem.  I guess that this is really a good subject for chaos theory
analysis.  Unfortunately (?) I am not qualified to do that.

Mainly, I think the points in favor of silver-based technology are that it
is definitely possible to make a B&W print that lasts over 100 years.  This
has been proven by example.  Very many, in fact.

I feel it is a good point that 50 years from now, Photo CD may be almost
entirely obsolete, or at least enough so that it is not practical for anyone
but the Smithsonian to reconstruct images from them.  I think it is important
to touch upon the use of the word "outlive" here.  What is live?  As I see
it, a black and white print is "live", in that a human can look at it and
perceive the image.  As long as the print was made carefully ("archivally",
if you will) it will remain so even without significant care.  That is, it
can be shoved into a box in the attic and forgotten with little chance of
degradation.  (Remember, the image is made up of silver metal, which is very
stable over time.)

On the other hand, if you put a Photo CD in the same box with the print,
what happens when it is found 50 years later by your grandchildren?  Here
is a guess:  They look at it, and figure out what it is.  Then they wonder
if there are any good pictures on it.  They wonder what it would take to
convert the data to a human-viewable image.  So they take it down to the
HyperMall Holoshop, where they are told that there is only one company in
the world that still performs the service of image conversion from antique
Photo CD's and it will take 3 months and cost them the same as the new set
of batteries that they need for their superconducting electric car.  "It's
not worth it!" they both say to the Holoshop attendant, and leave to buy the
car batteries.  When they get back, they find the black and white photo
(your portrait) and decide that with a suitable frame it would look good in
the living room, and make a nice conversation piece.  For some reason, none
of their friends seem to have pictures of their grandparents!  (Guess why! ;-)

OK, I hope you enjoyed my science fiction.  Now that I'm done with that, I'd
like to point out that I think a lot of the reservations to Photo CD are
unjustified.  After all, the Photo CD does not have to last, as long as
you have archival prints made from it!  Certainly it is possible to have
dye-transfer prints made from Photo CD, right?  It happens that those last
a long, long time.  As long as there are printing presses, it will be
possible to make archival prints from any common and current imaging
technology.  (I hope!)

So here's a question for you:  If I make a print from a Photo CD on my
(hypothetical :-() laser printer, how long will that last?

Jay Ts
Newsgroups: rec.photo