HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pepke@scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
Subject: Re: Couple of quick questions...
Organization: Florida State University, but I don't speak for them
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 19:37:02 GMT

I would strongly suggest that you not pour hot wort into your fermenter, 
for a number of reasons:

1) Oxidation
The more you slosh hot wort about, the more likely it is to oxidize.  This 
causes it to taste bad.

2) Reaction with plastic
Food-grade plastics such as used in siphon hose and plastic buckets may be 
fine at room temperature but may leach solvents at higher temperatures.  I 
know that I can smell solvent when plastic hose is heated to near boiling. 
It's probably not harmful, but it might affect the aroma of the beer.

3) Safety
I removed most of the skin from the top of my left foot once by 
accidentally spilling hot wort on it.  Although I am glad to say that 
everything grew back nicely, the ensuing weeks were somewhat unpleasant.

Nowadays I use a wort chiller.  When I can't use a wort chiller, I just 
cover the wort tightly while it is still hot and wait for it to cool.  
Haven't had an infection yet.

One thing you should definitely do is make a starter for your yeast.  Boil 
up a couple cups of 1020 wort, cool to room temperature, and pitch in 
yeast.  I use an old Lipton iced tea jar.  I put it on its side in a pot 
of boiling water.  At the last minute I put in the lid.  With tongs, I 
empty the jar and pour in the boiling wort.  Then I put the lid on and 
with heavy leather welding gloves tighten the lid.  Let cool to room 
temperature, open jar, add yeast, and put lid on loosely.  Do this before you
start the wort, and you should have a roaring bunch o' yeast by the time
you need to pitch.

Eric Pepke                                    INTERNET: pepke@scri.fsu.edu
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute MFENET:   pepke@fsu
Florida State University                      SPAN:     scri::pepke
Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052                    BITNET:   pepke@fsu

Disclaimer: My employers seldom even LISTEN to my opinions.
Meta-disclaimer: Any society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: lbach@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Jim Loellbach)
Subject: Re: acidifying sparge/wyeast specs
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:17:07 GMT

homebrew@lupulus.ssc.gov writes:

>The past few HBD's have had a lot on sparging and acidification of sparge
>water.  Has anyone out there used ascorbic acid to acidify the sparge
>water?  

That's what I've been using because I couldn't find lactic acid.  At
a pH of about 5.7 I can't taste it and I haven't noticed any bad effects.
If anyone knows of a reason to avoid its use, please let us know.

Jim Loellbach
lbach@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren)
Subject: Re: Vodka found to be a pretty good tube clener
Organization: Test Systems Strategies, Inc., Beaverton, Oregon
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:25:42 GMT

jim@thor.albany.edu (SCHLEMMER JAMES A) writes:

>I know that even cheap vodka isn't a very cost effective 
>sanitizer but when you consider the price you pay for a 4 ft.
>length of hose at the brewer's supply store and what you pay,
>in terms of lost time *and* materials, for a bad batch of beer,
>well, the cost doesn't bug me so much.  

>Any comments?

Comments?  Of course!

I use TSP (tri-sodium phosphate) to clean all my equipment and
it works GREAT!!  In fact, I've put about a tbsp. into the 
carboy I used for fermentation (lotsa' grungy stuff at top),
filled it to the brim with hot water, let it set for an hour,
and all the grunge is gone from the sides.  Additionally, after
2-3 rinsings, all the odor is gone as well, and TSP is LOTS
cheaper than vodka!  Trust me, this stuff REALLY works, although
you should be wearing gloves when you use it, as it tends to
really dry out the hands.

BTW, I buy my hose at a hardware store.  LOTS, lots cheaper!

allen
From: jhh@sprite.berkeley.edu (John H. Hartman)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Dry hopping and siphoning
Date: 14 Dec 1992 23:19:55 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: loiter.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec14.121725.530@doc.bmd.trw.com> jharres@doc.bmd.trw.com writes:
>
>  In my current batch I tried dry hopping in the secondary.  I am please with 
>the improved results but I had troubles not siphoning the hops flakes into
>the bottles.  How do you bottle after dry hopping and not put hops in the
>bottles?  (Yes, I was careful and did not disturb the sediment on the bottom
>as I racked it into the bucket with the priming sugar.)
>
>Thanks,
>Jim           jharres@doc.bmd.trw.com


I put one of those plastic dish-scrubber things inside a hop bag and put
the whole thing over the end of the siphon tube.  Works for me.

John

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
John H. Hartman
Graduate Student, UCB Sprite project
jhh@sprite.berkeley.edu
From: mark@verdix.com (Mark Lundquist)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: ?!?->"DME"<-?!?
Date: 14 Dec 92 19:30:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: verdix.9252
Organization: Verdix Western Operations, Aloha  OR

In article <1giimqINNmki@hp-col.col.hp.com> rcm@col.hp.com (hpctdfc) writes:
>[Mark writes:]
   Not in the same way, and only if you substituted syrup for dry.  Your
   recipe does use "DME" to mean "dry malt" -- because there's no "dark
   diastatic malt extract", and even if there were, a recipe wouldn't
   call for 7 lbs. of it...(per my earlier comments).
>
>Sure there is, and sure it could.  Edme makes light diastatic malt
>extract AND DARK diastatic malt extract, readily available at most
>any good homebrew or mailorder shop.  How can you make a good stout
>without using 7 lbs or more of malt???

As we used to say in the third grade, "No duh."

But as I'm sure you could see from reading the rest of my article, I
had been under the impression that diastatic malt extract was a
supplement, rather than the bulk of the extract for a batch.

Anyway...I do apprectiate the correction, even though I don't
apprectiate you making me look like a doofus by responding to my
comments out of context!
From: afd@bellcore.com (Alex F. Dietz)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Best Brewing Tunes?
Date: 20 Dec 92 19:40:29 GMT
Reply-To: afd@bellcore.com
Organization: Bellcore

Paul Simon "Graceland" album.  And Loudan Wainwright III "More Love Songs"
Brewed my first skank-o-brew to those albums and been using 'em ever since.
Can't listen to them anymore without thinking "BREW!  I MUST BREW!" (thick
slavic accent).

-A Dietz
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: drebosio@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: Help
Organization: Clark University
Date: 18 DEC 92 04:04:44 GMT

LAST
RESPOND



Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: murray@rocky.raleigh.ibm.com (Charlie Murray)
Subject: Re: Fermentation time
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:05:00 GMT
Organization: IBM, Research Triangle Park, North Carolina

In article <1992Dec15.203239.13749@paladin.american.edu>, sayre@chopin (Kirk Sayre) writes:

|> Both batches started out with a tremendous initial fermentation (both
|> blew off close to 1.5 gallons of beer, and I almost had my eye put out
|> by the blowoff tube plug exploding out of the carboy on the most
|> recent batch).  The fermentation was done with ale yeast at
|> approximately 75 degrees.  I have tried re-aerating (sp) the partially
|> fermeneted beer, but it doesn't make any difference.

1.5 gallons?!?  This seems like a HUGE amount.  The wort may have been too
warm when you pitched.  I don't know if anyone has any other thoughts on this,
but 1.5 gallons seems like a lot of blowoff.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Charlie Murray           CompuServe:  73707,1752
  Consulting at IBM        Internet:    73707.1752@compuserve.com

  NOTE:  If sending email use the addresses given in this .sig,
         not the one in the header of this message.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ewan.Grantham@f62.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Ewan Grantham)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Beginning Brewer
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 09:09:00 -0600

Bought my first home-setup this past Saturday from a local homebrew shop, 
spent about an hour figuring out what everything does (Documentation of 
their kit left a little to be desired), and then started my first batch 
that evening - Amber Ale. My main concern is that according to the 
directions, I should bottle next week (no big deal) and leave at around 
70F, and then I gather I should move the bottles to a 50F area for three 
weeks. The problem is - no 50F area. Our basement is finished and heated. 
What will the effect of the higher temp. be? Would I be better off putting 
bottles in shed outdoors (20-30F here in Minnesota)?

One other thing, from my reading, I gather that yeast in the bottom of the 
bottle is inevitable. Is it? How do the commercial breweries and 
microbreweries avoid this?

Thanks,
Ewan Grantham


___
 X WinQwk 2.0 a#0 X Unregistered Evaluation Copy

 * Origin: The Spare Computer (1:282/62)
From: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Alternative Water Salts
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 01:00:57 EDT
Organization: 5 Sigma Software
Reply-To: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v5


I'm about to spring for some calcium sulfate and calcium chloride,
having finally found USP stuff at a reasonable price (about $10/lb
in 1-lb quantities).

I'm also contemplating getting some other salts.  Has anyone here
used calcium monohydrogen phosphate?  Seems like this might be a fine
way to add calcium.  Or perhaps calcium lactate?

Your comments would be appreciated.

---

Also, where can I get one of those residual sugar test kits?

uunet!joebloe!joseph   (609) 273-8200 day   joseph%joebloe@uunet.uu.net
2102 Ryan's Run East        Rt 38 & 41             Maple Shade NJ 08052
Copyright 1992 by Joseph N. Hall.   Permission granted to copy and
redistribute freely over USENET and by email.  Commercial use prohibited.
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: pcj1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Pierre Jelenc)
Subject: Re: Compuserve
Reply-To: pcj1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Pierre Jelenc)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:01:20 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.053611.12304@moliere.uucp> pmk@moliere.uucp (Peter Michael Klausler) writes:
>
>From the excerpts of Compuserve's homebrewing forum that were copied
>here to rec.crafts.brewing, it would seem that they have polite and
>worthwhile content. I would like to see it, and I wish that its
>posters would participate instead on free networks and the mailing lists;
>but the use of Compuserve is certainly their choice.
>
>I do wish that the AHA would not promote Compuserve as heavily as they do,
>though. Use of anarchic free networks would seem to be more in tune with
>the independent spirit of homebrewing, if you will, than the use of a large
>commercial service. Indeed, in the most recent Zymurgy, they advertised
>Compuserve and made passing mention of the Homebrew Digest, ignoring
>Usenet altogether.


Guess what, in the real world, nodody's heard of Usenet, Internet or 
newsgroups. Compuserve is everywhere, provides excellent service from
your home, be it with an Apple or a NeXt, an 8080 or a 486. Anyone can
access the libraries, that contain a wealth of files (how many of you
have a TCP/IP connection at home?).

Finally it is not that expensive, since a typical session takes only
2-5 minutes on-line, and all the time-consuming reading and writing is
done off-line.

Finally, people appear to be somewhat more relaxed, less prone to fly
off the handle at any minute than here.

Pierre

Pierre Jelenc                        pcj1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu 
                                    Columbia University, New York
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: rjhoffma@iastate.edu (Richard J. Hoffmann)
Subject: Re: DME
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 02:58:48 GMT

In article <klumpp-161292180358@alexander.nbp.nwu.edu> klumpp@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (David Klumpp) Klumpp) (David Klumpp) writes:

>Thinking about the recent discussion of weird results with Laaglander, I
>wonder if the cause lies in another recent thread.  Could Laaglander be one
>of the  anonymous DMEs (from the Canadian studies) which is heavily cut
>with dextrose?  When doing all-extract with Laag, my fermentations often
>seem to stop ca. 1.020.  If Laag cuts with sugar, the yeast may run out of
>nitrogen etc before completely fermenting.  This is consistent with another
>observation with Laag-based brews:  a frequent residual sweetness.  My
>ferments proceed more normally using Munton&Fison DME for all-extract.  The
>Laag effect is suppressed when I do partial mashes.

[rest deleted]

At the risk of sounding like the beginner I am, I wonder about the 
lack of nitrogen.  I recently posted my experience with this brand 
of malt, with which I made a batch of India Pale Ale from Papazian.
It had an O.G. of 1.058 and quit at 1.032, but when I added amylase it
began again and is presently down to 1.002.  Wouldn't this evidence 
suggest that there is unfermentable material in the extract, not a lack 
of nutrients? I didn't add anything other than the amylase.  A thought.

Dick


-- 
Richard J. Hoffmann                Internet: rjhoffma@iastate.edu
Department of Zoology & Genetics     Bitnet: rjhoffma%iastate.edu@isumvs
Iowa State University                 Voice: (515) 294-8075
Ames, Iowa 50011
From: unglenie@author.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Best Brewing Tunes?
Date: 20 Dec 92 18:29:46 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us writes:
>
>So, does anyone out there have a favored musical brewing accompaniment?
>
>Of course, Frank Zappa isn't so bad either after the first couple
>of homebrews.

Ah yes.... "One Size Fits All" seems to work very well.  But the last
couple of my batches have been to Enya's Watermark.... almost spiritual.
(I don't think the wort cares....)

Rob U
--
-       Rob Unglenieks             REAL race cars DON'T wear BOWTIES       -
-  "It is the foreign element that commits our crimes.   There is no       -
-   native criminal class except Congress."  [Samuel Langhorne Clemens]    -
-  (Don't look at me, I DIDN'T vote for Clinton.  Will Engineer For Food)  -
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: stewarte@sco.COM (nothing a bullet in the belly couldn't cure)
Subject: Re: COMPUSENET DEC 10
Organization: Captain Napalm's Thermonuclear League of Liberty
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 00:15:35 GMT


Hmm, so Compuserve subscribers get the (perhaps dubious) benefit
of our wit & wisdom, but we can't receive theirs?  Seems unfair.
I guess now I know why some folks put disclaimers on their Usenet
postings to the effect that they can be reproduced anywhere except
on commercial services.

-- Stewart
-- 
"A cold noodle is like a dog without fur...recognizable, 
 but very unpleasant."
				-- Gever Tully (gever@xaos.com)
/*  uunet!sco!stewarte  -or-  stewarte@sco.COM  -or-  Stewart Evans  */
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: watson@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (John S. Watson - FSC)
Subject: Simulating Fermentation?
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr. Mtn Vw CA 94035
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:50:53 GMT

Hello Net.Beer.Folks,

While lying awake last night, thinking about
my latest batch of brew bubbling away down stairs, 
I wondered: Has anyone ever simulated, on a computer (or otherwise)
the dynamics of a fermenting carboy of beer?

From what I can see from the outside, down toward the bottom, 
things are fairly calm.
But near the top, there are all sorts of fabulous turbulents.

Is any net circulation inside the carboy?
What would be the path of a yeast cell
during the most active stages of the ferment?
All sorts of questions pop into my mind.

Seems like this would be a fun program to write,
while I'm slurping down my homebrews.

So if anyone has any literature on previous work in this area, 
please send me the info.  

Thanks,
John

John S. Watson               watson@ames.arc.nasa.gov
#include <stddsclm.h> 

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: hasn@midway.uchicago.edu 
Subject: Watering down Beer after blowoff
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:31:34 GMT

I just brewed a batch of Elbro Nerkte (which unfortunately
turned out to be undercarbonated :(.  Also it tastes a bit 
watered down.  The initial fermentation took a lot of beer
with it, reducing the level by about 1/2 gallon(or a bit more).
I poured in filtered (BRITA)water until it reached the 5.25 gallon
mark.  I did the same for my last batch which turned out 
really well (no watered down taste).  Why does it tast watered
down?  Is it the EDME SFX Dark Extract? The EDME ale
yeast (dry)? Also it is not 
very bitter at all (infact hardly at all).  Are Fuggles not 
very bitter hops? Did other people that 
made Elbro Nerkte brown ale have their's turn out the 
same?  Maybe I just dont like this style of beer.  But maybe
I messed up somewhere.  The major question is : Is watering
the beer down okey?  Any advice would be appreciated.
I'm actually a bit disappointed with the results of this batch
after my first turned out so well.
Thanks.
From: norman_strampach@qm.is.lmsc.lockheed.com (Norman Strampach)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Gleaming immersion chiller
Date: 15 Dec 92 20:33:31 GMT
Organization: Lockheed

In article <1992Dec13.090045.22759@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, wolo@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Greg Wolodkin) writes:
> 
> Greetings - 
> 
> Having put together an immersion wort chiller from 25' of copper 
> tubing several weeks ago, I noticed the following: 
> 
>     1) the copper tubing oxidizes when not in use.. when it comes
>        time to use it, it looks fairly dull and brownish, like 
>        most copper pipes do.
> 
>     2) After chilling the wort, the copper comes out gleaming.
> 
> I clean the thing before and after use, and make sure to boil it
> for a minute or two before chilling just to be sure.  My question
> is this -- should I be worried about where the oxide coating
> (that used to be on the surface of the chiller) ends up?
> Thanks in advance for any comments/suggestions.

Do you have any aluminum in the system?  A method of polishing silver
is to put your silver stuff in an aluminum pot and throw in a little salt
as an electrolyte.  This may be happening to your copper.  You would be 
converting the copper oxides to copper and the aluminum to aluminum oxide.
It doesn't have to be aluminum but maybe steel or any metal that has a
higher oxidation potential than copper.
Good luck in tracking this down>
From: mark@verdix.com (Mark Lundquist)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Gleaming immersion chiller
Date: 19 Dec 92 17:02:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: verdix.9268
Organization: Verdix Western Operations, Aloha  OR

In article <1992Dec18.005233.26597@crash> jsawyer@crash.cts.com (John Sawyer) writes:
>
>	I have some Stainless steel hose, unfortunately it is braided.  
>The biggest drawback, though, is the small diameter.  (these were designed
>to circulate Liquid Helium in a Nuclear reactor at around 2000 psi. 
>--no, they were NEVER used... :-)  )

Do ya think...naw!!  A liquid helium wort chiller?  I bet you could
cool down a 5 gallon batch pretty quick! :-) :-) :-)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: feldman@hal9k.cxo.dec.com (james feldman)
Subject: Re: Sierra Neveda Celebration Ale
Reply-To: feldman@hal9k.cxo.dec.com (james feldman)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:23:58 GMT

In article <168BE898E.EG4459@uacsc2.albany.edu>, EG4459@uacsc2.albany.edu writes:
|>Does anyone have a recipe or source for S.N. Celebration Ale?
                               ^^^^^^
A Grocery Store?  ;'{)}...

It's good stuff, but it pushes the hops envelope for me.
--
Jim Feldman                         || This space for lease, contact your
Digital Equipment Corp              || Digital Sales Rep.
CSC/Colorado Springs                || 

My opinions are my own and in no way reflect Digital's POV (unless they're
charging somebody for me to give them).
From: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Best Brewing Tunes?
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 02:05:43 EDT
Organization: 5 Sigma Software
Reply-To: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v5


So, does anyone out there have a favored musical brewing accompaniment?

I nominate Carmina Burana.  It 1) gets you in that ol' Excalibur mood,
and 2) certainly is topical!  (In fact, note the latest sig.)

Of course, Frank Zappa isn't so bad either after the first couple
of homebrews.

================O Fortuna, velut Luna, statu variabilis================
uunet!joebloe!joseph   (609) 273-8200 day   joseph%joebloe@uunet.uu.net
2102 Ryan's Run East        Rt 38 & 41             Maple Shade NJ 08052
Copyright 1992 by Joseph N. Hall.   Permission granted to copy and
redistribute freely over USENET and by email.  Commercial use prohibited.
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: ulick@michaelangelo.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: Re: Beginning Brewer
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:36:38 GMT

In article <724402575.F00001@tdkt.kksys.com> Ewan.Grantham@f62.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Ewan Grantham) writes:
>Bought my first home-setup this past Saturday from a local homebrew shop, 
>spent about an hour figuring out what everything does (Documentation of 
>their kit left a little to be desired), and then started my first batch 
>that evening - Amber Ale. My main concern is that according to the 
>directions, I should bottle next week (no big deal) and leave at around 
>70F, and then I gather I should move the bottles to a 50F area for three 
>weeks. The problem is - no 50F area. Our basement is finished and heated. 
>What will the effect of the higher temp. be? Would I be better off putting 
>bottles in shed outdoors (20-30F here in Minnesota)?
>

No.  My beer freezes on the front porch in winter and Indiana is balmy
compared to Minnesota.  Unfinish part of your basement.  Build a styrofoam
or heavily insulated three walled structure in the coolest corner.  It
will get quite a bit cooler than the room.  Cooler temperatures clean up
flavours and are good serving temperatures for richer beer.

>One other thing, from my reading, I gather that yeast in the bottom of the 
>bottle is inevitable. Is it? How do the commercial breweries and 
>microbreweries avoid this?

By pasteurizing and pressure bottling (alternative cool filtered bullshit).


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+      B'fhearr liom bheith ag eitilt.      +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: howland@noc2.arc.nasa.gov (Curtis Howland)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Some People.... (was Re: Kegs)
Date: 17 Dec 92 15:23:50 GMT
Organization: NASA Science Internet Project Office

In article <klumpp-161292175438@alexander.nbp.nwu.edu>, 
klumpp@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (David Klumpp) Klumpp) (David Klumpp) writes:

|> David Klumpp
|> Dept. Biochemistry, Molecular Biology and Cell Biology
|> Northwestern Univeristy

Hmmmmm.... Sounds like just the person to ask yeast-questions
from, and expect good answers. :^>

Must admit, home brewing attracts all kinds.

---
Curt Howland        howland@nsipo.nasa.gov 
NSI Operations Center      NASA Ames
(800) 424-9920
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing