From: oberland@vax.sonoma.edu
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Re: Electric Vehicle
Date: 12 Dec 92 01:36:43 GMT
Organization: Sonoma State University

In article <Dec11.232412.63015@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, kk881595@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (kevin knappmiller) writes:
> In article <1992Dec11.154137.15298@cs.rochester.edu>, dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes:
> 
> |> more difficult to repair.  Increasing the mileage of a car from 30 to
> |> 40 mpg only saves about $1300 or so over the (say) 150,000 mile life
>                            ^^^^^
> |> of the car.  This savings would be spread over years in the future,
> |> while the higher price of the car would have to be paid up front.
> 
> Bingo.  So lets raise the price of gas to $10/gal and it will
> then be economical for us all to drive electric cars. ;?)

BUT... This is exactly what will happen(after a fashion)

Expect gas prices to raise to near 1.75-2.00 a gallon in the next few years.
They are going to tax gas so much that electricity will REALLY be cheap by
comparison.

About the mileage "thing": Every bit helps.
Imagine the cost of rising gas and then figure that 130K miles is about 10yrs.
so, over the next ten years, HOW many $1300 dollar savings is that?
(acutally, you would have to factor in the new taxes and such as well)
more like 1500-2000*all those vehicles...

This may be fun(returning to Electric vehicles thread):
Figure in the cost of maintaining a vehicle for 100K miles.
now an electirc vehicle(no transmission probs(WHY you use a IV transmission))
no cooling system. on tuneups. no oil changes. no muffler changes(this just
cost me 150 lately-they had to fix the exhaust system as well), etc...

This is why an electric vehicle is so good, imo.  You can finance the cost of a 
more expensive vehicle, but the higher cost of maintaining a gas vehicle is
soimething that you have to live with on a monthly basis.

"..gheez... they want HOW much for a new muffler?"
"..600 for a clutch job!?!?"
"..<whine>I can't afford a new transmission.  Guess I'll have to sell the car"

I would quite gladly spend a bit more to get this peace-of-mind.  Adding a
new(whatever) usually comes at a time when you cannot afford it.

As I see it, only the problem of range is what makes them unwanted.
IF they can make one that would do 400+ miles with Ni-H batteries,
(simply replce the ni-cads for Ni-H in that 300+ vehicle.  In fact, you may
exceed 500 miles!)
why not one that could do 200 with the same technology, but a larger car?
It may even PASS the crash-tests(heh)

I still say that the cost of ANY prototype is not what you base your prices on.
If you just copied the design with on your own(assumiung they didn't do any
wierd things), it should cost a mere fraction to make.  Now add in
mass-production, and see it really drop.

I know, someone will scream about the Impact being 30K...
DO you really think GM is interested in selling these things?
Or are they saying:
1:"we TRIED to sell 10% electric and nobody would buy them"
2:"we are targeting the rich eco-yuppies who can afford the gouging"
Either way they get what they want, namely:

I think that they know that if they used better technology and lowered the
price to, say, 20k, they would loose a LOT of business on their IC designs.
The profit margin is really high for IC designs compared to Electric, and
the IC designs almost SEEM to be made to require dealer-replacement

Why ruin a good thing for GM? THey currently get you when you buy, and when
it breaks.  My car cost me 1500 this last year alone(computers all went south)
HAD to go to GM shop to get them fixed.
I was not pleased at this show of planned obsolesence.
NEXT car is a Honda or Saturn...
;)

I expect that some gung-ho overseas company will sell electric mini-cars
fashioned after one of the 50mpg mini's for about 10-12 k in a few years,
and fry us again...

Joe