HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kkrh@troi.cc.rochester.edu (K. Karcich)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: pre-1964's? Why are they special?
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:21:47 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <1992Dec10.204148.14404@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> tjohnson@xenon.stanford.edu (Ted C. Johnson) writes:

#What's so special about pre-1964 Winchester bolt-action rifles?
#Every now and then someone mentions (in a gun magazine) about
#how great their pre-'64 Winchester rifle is, or an advertisement will
#say that their rifle is as good as a pre-64 Winchester.

#If they were so great in '64, why aren't they good now?
#Did they break the mold in '64?
#Did Mrs. Winchester stop blessing the rifles in '64?
#Did they change the design of the rifle (despite the fact that the pre-64
#design is more popular)?

Ted,

	The overriding reason that the pre-64 rifle was discontinued was cost
of manufacture. At that time Winchester was getting significant price competition from Remington who was refining its earlier rifles into what became the 700
series. Since this rifle is much cheaper to manufacture than the pre 64 Mod
70, Winchesters management saw their profit margins eroding. When Winchester
presented the new design in 64, it was poorly stocked, showed evidence of minimal hand finishing or poor finishing on internal surfaces and did away with the 
revered mauser extractor in favor of a smaller claw extractor and a enclosed
bolt face.

	I personally did not think that changing the breeching was a bad thing
because the enclosed breech is safer the the Springfield type of coned barrel
entry. I did not like the poor finish and workmanship and the cheap appearance
of the early post 64 rifles, however. It should be pointed out that the current
Mod 70 is a far cry from those early post 64 rifles, quality wise, and I think
are the equal of any of the pre 64 rifles.

	The pre 64 rifles do live on as they are built by various semi-custom
manufacturers, but they are expensive as might be expected. Brownells lists
a pre 64 type at about 1200 bucks for a bare action in the white.

	By the way, I have my pre 64 (Mint) and I wouldn't think of selling it.

regds,

Ken Karcich
#Thanks.

#-Ted "born in '64 :-)"
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: BANG BANG YOUR DEAD
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:35:30 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De Arras) writes:

#Sorry, as a new gun owner, I follow this group as a lurky, mostly, but the  
#horrible misuse of "your" when you mean "you're" is so prevalent here as to  
#make the group look like a bunch of ignorant backwoods folks at times!  And I 
#know that is not the case.  

#Please try to use "you're" as the contraction for "you are", not the possessi 
#pronoun "your"!  Don't re-enforce the anti-gun force's stereotype of gun  
#owners.

	A sterotype of computer users is what it is more likely to
re-enforce.  I see the same kind of typing and spelling slips on
many groups.

JD
From: crumrine@erenj.com (MDCRUMR  Crumrine)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AKMs
Date: 19 Dec 92 00:24:06 GMT
Organization: Exxon Research and Engineering, NJ

In article <1992Dec18.042837.18990@athena.mit.edu> sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Rifleman) writes:
#I'd like opinions as to which is more reliable:
#
#        1.) The "MAADI AK-47 RIFLE"
#            Egyptian Made.  (Not PRC.)
#            Chromed Barrel.
#            Phosphate finish.
#            @ $229,
# 
#           or
#
#        2.) Hungarian "SA 85M (AK47)"
#            Comes with 6rd mag.
#            @ $299.
#
#
[stuff deleted]
#

I owned the Egyptian model for 5 years and found it to be *very*
reliable. It came with 2 30 round mags (don't know if they were
"standard").  The tool and dies for this weapon were supplied to
Egypt by the Soviets during a period in which they were trying to
woo them. Probably as close to the real thing as you can get
(legally ;-) ).

Mike Crumrine
crumrine@erenj.com
From: bigdog@bones.et.byu.edu (Dan Canfield)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 9mm reloading question
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:54:09 GMT
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA

Just a quick question.  My brother and I have 9mm semiautos.  His
is a Beretta and mine a Taurus.  We have both reloaded before, but
not 9mm, primarily rifle ammo and some .357 stuff.  I have read 
a couple of sections in reloading manuals about reloading for the
9mm and feel like I am ready to try it.

My question is what powder is a good on to work with.  We are going
to reloading 124gr. jacketed ball ammo for plinking.  I am just
curious as to which powder of the several each reloading manual uses
I should try.  What ones have you had success with.

Also, if there is something dramatically different about reloading 9mm
vrs .357 I would like to hear about that also.

Thanks,

Dan Canfield
bigdog@bones.et.byu.edu

DoD #0071,RP90
'89 FJ1200
'89 Indy707
------------------------------------------------------------------
"Excuss me while I kiss the sky" - Jimi Hendrix
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ranges/Clubs nr Rochester
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:59:34 GMT
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma

In article <1992Dec16.233413.27007@cs.rochester.edu> brown@cs.rochester.edu (Chris Brown) writes:
#I'm interested in info or opinions on gun clubs and/or ranges
#around Rochester NY.   If it makes a difference I'm just getting
#started, and shotgun is what I'm interested in.
#Thanks --
#Chris Brown
#brown@cs.rochester.edu

In no particular order....

Genessee Consevration League - Penfield, NY - across the street from
Panorama plaza.  Outdoor rifle/pistol range; indoor pistol range/
clubhouse.

Rochester Brooks - Honeye area, 10-15 min. south of Rochester off of rt 15.
Numerous outdoor trap & skeet ranges (at least 16 of each), and an outdoor 
IPSC area.  A first class operation.

Rochester Rifle Club - Indoor Rifle & Pistol range on Winton Road.
Right near where Winton Road crosses over the canal (west of Winton, south
of canal) - there is a parking lot next to radio transmission towers.  The 
small building is for the towers.  The similarly styled, unmarked and
somewhat larger building located abutting the same parking lot is Rochester 
Rifle Club.  24 hour access for members; very minimal membership fee.  Sign 
by entrance is labeled "RRC" with no further information.  A "best bargain"


...call any area gunshop for directions to these places...

Also...

Creekside gunshop, Holcomb NY (east of Rochester by about 30-40 minutes).
Nice, large, gunshop (not cheap prices though) witn 25/50/100 yard outdoor
range and clay bird throwing area (no charge for range use!).
 
#-- 
#Chris Brown                     INTER: brown@cs.rochester.edu
#Dept. of Computer Science       
#University of Rochester         VOX:   (716) 275-7852
#Rochester  NY  14627-0226       FAX:   (716) 461-2018
From: justice@panix.com (Michael Justice)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Transporting guns on planes
Date: 13 Dec 92 15:46:22 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <1992Dec11.162446.28807@btree.uucp> Bob Hale wrote:
#In <1992Dec9.214546.18979@den.mmc.com> hobbes@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com (Stephen Camp) writes:
#[ my posting concerning 'who to ask about guns' deleted ]
##When traveling / moving to a new city or one you've not taken a firearm
##to ....  what suggestions do you have regarding who to ask?  especially
##when you don't know anyone there?  (I suppose you could ask rec.guns,
##but I didn't know about rec.guns then :-()
#
#Be advised that in certain parts of the country the legal system is
#thoroughly corrupt and they might just enjoy entrapping someone
#who isn't a local.  What's the latin for "asker beware"?

Which is why I prefer to call up gun stores in the immediate area I'll
be stuck in, er, "sent to", and ask the sales staff.  Taken as a whole,
they've been quite good both times.

In contrast, when I talked to the Maryland cops, I got a neurotic psycho
who peppered me with leading questions about what I planned to have the
gun around for, then told me that I couldn't do X, Y, Z, Q, . . ., &c.
(New York was easier.  "You can't have a gun.  Be polite to the muggers
and they won't usually hurt you.  BWAHAHAHAHAHA!")

#Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
#...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net

			-- Michael.

BTW, I too would like to extend a warm welcome to our newest NRA member,
Bart Simpson.  Make us proud, dude! :-)
-- 
Michael A. Justice / Will hack X11 for peanuts (stolen, with apologies).
justice@panix.com /  "It's barbaric, but hey! it's home!" -- "Aladdin"
From: bz269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James D. Del Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AMT backup .380
Date: 19 Dec 92 15:20:31 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


In a previous article, earlw@Apple.COM (Earl Wallace) says:

#  >The main attractive feature of the backup is it's REALLY small size. 
#  >The firestar is BIGGER than the colt officers which is BIGGER than the 

#I thought the Firestar .40S&W was smaller than the Colt Officers model! It
#may be heavier :-), but I was sure it was smaller. 

	It sure is smaller, and lighter.   The Colt is 34 oz, the Star
.40 is 30 oz.  The FStar .45 is 36 oz, and the the Colt aluminum frame
OM is 24 oz.  The aluminum Star PD is about 25 oz, (it seems smaller
than the OM),  but you hardly ever see those anymore.  Too bad, they're 
handier than their new .45 by  far.

#  >Colt Mustang which is CONSIDERABLKY BIGGER than the Backup. Seriously 

I don't know about that. Not only did the smallest Colt look smaller than
the AMT side by side, it was quite a bit lighter due to the alloy frame.

#  >folks, this is a TINY gun (hence the kick). If I wanted something bigger 
#  >I would DEFINITELY go for a Colt Double Eagle Officers model in .45. As a 
#  >matter of fact, I think I'll go for one anyway (money permitting.........)

DEO:
It seemed ok.  It was essentialy like the Astra I bought instead, but it
is flatter and takes standard (inexpensive) 1911 mags.  The Colt kicks 
harder, and bites the palm web.  I would have bought the Colt if they were
the same price, but, of course, the Astra was about $200 less.

The Colt is much prettier.

Jim Del Vecchio
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Looking for 10mm recomendations
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:17:37 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <1992Dec15.165357.4981@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
##alternated .40 and 10mm in the same clip, ...
#... how did the .40 seat itself (headspace wise) in the longer 10mm chamber?

It had to headspace on the extractor hook.  This is not something one should
do except in an emergency!
From: L630614@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: "Deadly Weapons"
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:23:14 GMT
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
From: jltaylor@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Jeff Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 'Deadly Weapons'
Date: 10 Dec 92 22:43:55 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In <9212091251.AA07198@mimsy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:

#Someone asked me about the film 'Deadly Weapons' in e-mail, but
#for some reason I couldn't reply.

"Deadly Weapons" is a B-grade 'adult film' which shows off the `talents`
of a woman named Chesty Morgan. The film was made in the 70's and the
main idea of the film was "a woman's boyfriend is killed, so she smothers
the perps with her breasts" (by the way, he measurements are 73-34-38,
73 being the one that counts in this film).  There was a second film
with this woman as the start. This film was called "Double Agent 73",
Chesty is a spy (or something similar) and has a camera in her left (?)
breast. She snaps a photo every times she tugs on her upper breast area.
I include this just for those folks who want to watch as much of Chesty
as possible in one sitting, and I assure you that one of these films will
be plenty!

Likely, the person who asked Rob was thinking of "Deadly Effects", or
maybe not 8-) .. If you are interested in "DW", I can force myself to
re-watch the film and tell you more about it ...

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

You saw a different video called "Deadly Weapons" that we did.
I guess that's what gun control will do to you.
                                 Wild Bill
From: doc@webrider.Central.Sun.COM (Steve Bunis SE Southwest Chicago)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Belgium Shotgun Information wanted
Date: 18 Dec 92 01:56:38 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.

Greetings -

My father owns several very nicely made Belgium shotguns 
(circa 1920-1940).  I would very much like to track down
any books/references etc. that would provide information 
about them.  Unfortunately I don't know the manufacturer's
name at present (will find out when I do my Christmas visit),
but if anyone knows of any general information sources to 
start with I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,

---
Steve Bunis, SE Chicago-Metro Office, Sun Microsystems
From: boone@athena.cs.uga.edu (Roggie Boone)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Gun blast noise in a car?
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:54:48 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

This is probably a dumb question but here goes anyway.

When I was in college, I was basically kidnapped at gunpoint in my
car.  (Luckily I was released unharmed).  I did not own a gun then,
and in retrospect, I remember that had I had one, there would have 
been plenty of chances to shoot the guy inside the car (since I didn't
know I would have had a chance when he let me go too).  So now I 
own a Glock 10mm and a .357 magnum.  

My question is, if one has to shoot inside a car (either at someone
in your car, or through a windshield to get someone trying to get 
into your car), how do you protect your ears (and those of passengers)
from the blast noise?
Are certain loads "better" for noise suppression (and/or ricochet)
or are certain guns preferable?
Certainly, one would not want to fire a .357 magnum inside of a 
closed auto, but it would be nice to disable the guy in one shot
so that you don't have to fire again.

Or should one forget about the ears and just be happy to be alive
(or pray the noise doesn't knock you out and cause you to run off
the road and hit a tree)?

Thanks for bearing with this question.

Roggie Boone
boone@athena.cs.uga.edu


-- 
Roggie Boone
Dept. of Ag and Applied Economics

Internet:  boone@athena.cs.uga.edu          Phone:  (706) 542-2482
From: sjo@sunsrvr1.cci.com (Steve Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AMT backup .380
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:19:47 GMT
Organization: [Computer Consoles, Inc., Rochester, NY

In article <9212151109.aa07559@ingate.microsoft.COM> you write:
#In article <6034@rosie.NeXT.COM> trose@NeXT.COM writes:
##
##
##I am looking for a small pocket pistol for occasional carry
##when belt carry isnot available.   I read an article on the 
##AMT .380 "backup".  The article was very positive.   From I
##have heard there first version of the backup was unreliable
##(the SA version).  Supposedly this new version (DA only) does a better
##job w/ QA.   Has anybody had any experince with the AMT?  I would like
##to decide soon so that I can get the pistol for under the tree!!
##
#
#
#Let me repeat myself again: AVOID THE AMT BACKUP, EVEN THE DA MODEL.
#Get a Walther PPK(/S) or a Colt Mustang. You'll be a lot happier. Check out
#the discussion from a few months ago (and a few months before that, etc.)
#for more discussion of small .380's. There's an ftp archive out there
#somewhere(???); look through it. 

	I tried to respond via email, but it appears to have bounced.

	Why not look into the new Firestars?  American Rifleman gave
a good review of them this month (If I remember correctly, the article 
said they were reliable and well made.  For a minute, I wondered whether 
I was reading American Rifleman or not. :-)  and they come in more 
effective calibers than the .380 (they come in 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP).
Looking at them in the local gun shop, the Firestars didn't appear to be 
much bigger than a Colt Mustang.

#	...Dave


					Just a thought.

						Steve


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Read between the lines                             Steven J Owens @ CCI
 Criticize the words they're selling             (716) 482-5000 Ext 2867
 Think for yourself and feel the walls                 sjo@op632.cci.com
 Become sand beneath your feet." - Queensryche "Anybody Listening?"
From: calspan!schabel@uu.psi.com (Dave Schabel)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Use of Lethal Force in the Defense of a loved one.
Date: 12 Dec 92 17:15:56 GMT
Organization: Calspan Advanced Technology Center

In article <1992Dec9.171711.16760@u.washington.edu> ryanm@stein.u.washington.edu (Ryan Mcneilly) writes:
#In article <ByyAID.38o@techbook.com> roc@techbook.com (Ron Christian) writes:
##
##Umm, please check with an authority before doing this.  When I took
##my CCW class in Oregon, the instructor said never to volunteer information
##about whether you're armed to anyone, including police officers if you are
##pulled over.  First, because it excites the cop unnecessarily, and
##second, because it's none of his damned business.  With concealed
##carry, the operative word is "concealed".  Talking about it or showing
##it off constitutes "brandishment", which is a special little crime all
##in it's own.
##
##My personal feelings on this:  Why get the officer all excited, get
##frisked and/or pulled out of the car and jammed across the roof, and
##possibly lose your weapon and your permit when you've done nothing wrong?
##If you have no legal requirement in your state to do so, keep legally
##quiet about your legally carried concealed weapon.
#^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
#
#I earlier posted an answer about this question taking the above position
#but not stating it clearly.  I agree fully with the imediate above.  If
#you are asked to get out for any reason then inform the officer and expose
#the weapon (DON'T REACH FOR IT).  --Ryan
#

UNLESS some other action you are requested to take runs the risk
of exposing the weapon to the officer's sight.  For example, you
are wearing an inside-the-pants hip holster on your right side.
You need to reach behind you and move your jacket to get to your
wallet (for your driver's license, not a bribe 8^} ).  If there's
a good chance that the officer will spot the weapon, I would suggest
that you inform him about it _before_ he spots it for himself.

				Dave Schabel



-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Schabel         | Opinions and comments contained herein are mine and  |
schabel@calspan.com  | do not necessarilly reflect those of Calspan Corp or |
                     | its customers.                                       |
From: jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: .357mag vs .44mag
Date: 15 Dec 92 13:29:51 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia


	.357mag is a better man-stoper than .44mag due to the 
	overpenetration the .44 is capable of, at least that's 
	what the experts say.
	.357mag is also more likely to penetrate body armor
	because of the thiness and speed of round, .44 has too
	large a cross section, at least some people think so.

	hence the question does .44 offer some advantage over
	.357 when used for defense purposes? And under what
	set of conceivable circumstances?

	Thanks, for any and all comments.
							jd
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: RECOIL REDUCTION
Date: 14 Dec 92 14:15:00 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <13794.122.uupcb@cccbbs.UUCP> cccbbs!bill.preuss@uceng.uc.EDU (Bill Preuss) writes:
#Well, I did it.  After reading two articles about drilling holes in the
#top of your pistol to reduce the recoil I decided to try it.  I took my
#S&W 686 with a 6" bbl and drilled 5 holes ( starting small and going
#larger) into the top of the barrel.  I then counter bored (drilled)
#about half way down the first holes - this gave me a step as I had no
#means of drilling a conical shaped hole.   ...

  You didn't mention that the ports (holes) are near the muzzle
end of the barrel.  I would also think that such a fact need not be
mentioned, except that this weekend I heard about a man who had
his shotgun ported and that as a result he was looking for a
replacement barrel.  Yes - you guessed it - the ports were made
at the chamber end of the barrel!

  I've never ported anything myself, but have had a barrel
ported by Magna-Port.  I was very pleased at the reduction in
recoil and in muzzle lift.  They weren't dramatic, but were
substantial enough to greatly improve how the gun reacted
in my hands.

--henry schaffer
From: IA80024@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Nicholas C. Hester)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Colt or Springfield 1911 A1
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:21:23 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System

In article <1g6oe3INN764@male.EBay.Sun.COM>, 49ers@eb5ts4.EBay.Sun.COM (Renie
Maycon) says:
#
#Which is a better gun for the money springfield or colt?
#
#Is it really worth spending more money for a colt?

Not according to a friend of mine.  He spent over 20 years in the Marines
as an armorer, and now works in a gunshop handling all types of firearms.
His considered opinion is that Colt quality no longer justifies paying
the price.  Not only that, but that Springfield has far better quality,
period.

As for me, I don't own either of them, but's that's due to poverty. :)
When I save enough for it I'm getting a Springfield.

___

  Nicholas  Hester
ia80024@maine.Bitnet
ia80024@maine.maine.edu
From: chuckh@apex.com (Chuck Huffington)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: More on dry firing
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:26:26 GMT
Organization: Apex Computer Company

In article <1992Dec16.014824.12112@ttinews.tti.com> hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
#}There aren't many shooters around with more money in their pistols than
#}IPSC shooters, and they are REQUIRED to dry fire at least once each time
#}they run a stage.
#}
#}So there.			
#
#Well, _I'm_ going to use the decocker lever as God and SIG intended, rules
#or no rules.
#
#Harumph! (-:
#
#(Seriously, would this be a rules violation?  Sounds pretty silly, if so).

The reason for dropping the hammer as oppossed to lowering it is simple.
It is a form of proof the weapon is unloaded.  No one is supposed to
be wandering around with loaded guns at an IPSC match.

The IPSC safety rules are well done.  You really have to violate more than
one of them to have a tragedy.

If dry firing hurts your SIG, I suggest you get something else.

If you are just un-willing to follow the rules of the sport, by
all means please find another sport.  IPSC has a excellent safety record
for two reasons.

1) Good safety rules.
2) People willing to follow (and enforce them).

I'm sorry if this comes across as heavy handed,  but I consider safety
to be more important.

Chuck Huffington