Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:50:39 CST
From: <U53644@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Job Application Skills
Distribution: sci
 <1993Jan9.194557.10082@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>

Uhhhhhh...........Well, at the risk of repeating some bad history.......

         Yes, recent graduates in Mathematics HAVE been having a rough time
getting work, as almost everyone acknowledges right now (kind of like
admitting that the weather has been getting cold). However, while I might
respect the determination of someone who is about to renew his abandoned job
hunt, I can't respect his judgement. After a while, one has to face the reality
that a certain avenue of attack is futile, and try something else.

         Find an area of application, be it engineering, medicine, computer
science, business, whatever - so long as your area of Mathematics finds real
application there (I'm afraid that Differential Geometers are out of luck here)
. Develop real expertise in that field, and branch out into it. Don't fall prey
to the preconception that application work is dry and uncreative - far from it.
OK, so you aren't going to get that academic post. It's a shame that you can't
get the position you worked for, and that rather misleading NSF study came out
(currently under Senate subcommittee investigation (Science & Technology)), and
that you might have been denied the opportunity to make an informed decision
about grad school. It's OK to be angry - you have every reason to be. But move
on. And, you know, the academic life isn't perfect either - most faculty
members don't have graders - and nothing is duller (or more time consuming)
than grading. While you may have to do some research that isn't in your
favorite area, and a lot of your time is taken up by it - faculty generally
are burdened with their share of tedious responsibilities too.

One thing you can't do is drift - you'll be doing that forever if you don't
stop yourself. When planning out your additional education and work.....

    1. Go out, and talk to people in the field about what the current work
       situation is really like.

    2. When looking at a school, ask to see the placement statistics for their
       alumni, and what they do in general to help their students find work.
       If the answer is nothing - move on. Their reputation will not get you a
       job. Not even if they're Harvard (sad but true).

    3. Graduate students in the applied sciences are not only allowed access to
       the labs - they're openly encouraged to work in them. Great chance for
       resume building. Also, there is no law against selling the products you
       might develop in the process of doing your research (often done).

    4. Don't forget about consulting work (Wiley puts out a nice introductory
       guide). Remember, though, that you must have 5 years of work experience
       before you can legally call yourself a consulting engineer (at least
       here in Illinois).

    5. Be sure to be active in those professional student organizations.
       Not only are they good learning opportunities, but a good one will
       get you valuable contacts, and possibly past the old boys network.

    6. Try to maintain some vision of what, SPECIFICALLY, it is you're
       trying to accomplish (beyond "having lots of fun making big bucks").
       What are you going to help your company, society, etc. with ?
       What specific tasks are there that need doing, how do you plan on
       doing them, how are you preparing yourself ?

       Read through the trade journals to find out what the various companies
       and organizations are doing, what their products are, what their
       strenghts and weaknesses are. What research are their employees doing ?
       A look through the membership lists of the professional organizations
       will tell you where those in your field work - look up their
       publications. AND GO TO THOSE MEETINGS !

In short, you're going to have to get aggressive in an organized fashion.
(Oh, and when someone gives you figures - be sure to check around. Is this
school as sucessful as it bills itself to be ? Talk to prospective employers
about it). Mere persistance is futile - and don't think that anyone will be
doing you any favors.

It'll be hard, no matter what you do - but not impossible. It is worth the
effort.

                              Joseph B. Dunphy
                              PhD Student, Mathematics - Indiana U. (on leave)
                              Graduate Student - Electrical Eng. (U. Illinois
                                                                    at Chicago)

Newsgroups: sci.math,alt.flame