HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jbradfor@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jeffrey Bradford)
Subject: Re: Final comma in lists
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 04:34:59 GMT

In article <01GPZ2GAGHQ88X007I@kiera.ericsson.se> LMEBGO@kiera.ericsson.se ("Bengt G{llmo, L M Ericsson, Stockholm, Sweden") writes:
>
>Speaking of but's and commas, how about "But, commas are ..."?  You could use
>"however" instead, but "but" is shorter.  Is this "but" really a coordinating
>conjunction?
>
As in "However, comma are ..."?  From Strunk and White, pg. 48-49,
reprinted without premission (of course):
	Avoid starting a sentence with _However_ when the meaning
	is "nevertheless." ... When _However_ comes first, it
	means "in whatever way" or "to whatever extent."
How many people, even readers of this news group, religiously
follow this rule?

Jeff

Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: gjditchf@plg.uwaterloo.ca (Glen Ditchfield)
Subject: Euphemisms (was Re: Cats'n'Dogs)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 19:14:39 GMT

Here's a nice one that is showing up in papers and books:

ISSUING BODY: Ontario. Ministry of Education.
TITLE: Children with communication exceptionalities.

AUTHOR, ETC.: Cleland, Charles Carr.
TITLE: Exceptionalities through the lifespan : an introduction / Charles C.
          Cleland, Jon D. Swartz. -
SUBJECT(S): Handicapped - United States. * Handicapped - United States -
          Psychology. * Handicapped - Education - United States. * Handicapped
          - Services for - United States.

I first saw this phrase on a textbook with a title like "Children with
Exceptionalities".  The introduction of the book made it plain that they
are not the same as "exceptional children".

    Glen Ditchfield  gjditchfield@violet.uwaterloo.ca  Office: DC 2517
Dept. of Computer Science, U of Waterloo, Waterloo, Ontario, Canada, N2L 3G1
		     Get a life -- before it gets you!
From: thayes@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: english teachers
Date: 16 Oct 92 17:21:55 GMT
Organization: Wright State University



DB>      But the idea that English teachers can change the
> course of the English language by slapping students around
> is ridiculous.  If we had any real effect on people's usage,
> then we'd quickly put ourselves out of business, wouldn't
> we?  And all those folks on the computer networks would have
> nothing left to turn their noses up at.

Dennis, you're harsh!  

But there's something about your logic in this paragraph that makes 
me wonder: if English teachers have almost no "real effect" on usage, why do
we continue to have to endure you folks throughout our schooling?!  

(ObSmly here)

-----ted hayes
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: tdlg9831@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Tracey Dianne Layng)
Subject: Re: Final comma in lists
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 05:19:37 GMT

jbradfor@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jeffrey Bradford) writes:

>In article <01GPZ2GAGHQ88X007I@kiera.ericsson.se> LMEBGO@kiera.ericsson.se ("Bengt G{llmo, L M Ericsson, Stockholm, Sweden") writes:
>>
>>Speaking of but's and commas, how about "But, commas are ..."?  You could use
>>"however" instead, but "but" is shorter.  Is this "but" really a coordinating
>>conjunction?
>>
>As in "However, comma are ..."?  From Strunk and White, pg. 48-49,
>reprinted without premission (of course):
>	Avoid starting a sentence with _However_ when the meaning
>	is "nevertheless." ... When _However_ comes first, it
>	means "in whatever way" or "to whatever extent."
>How many people, even readers of this news group, religiously
>follow this rule?

>Jeff


I know that the prescriptive rules don't allow sentences to start with
however or therefore, but you are right when you say that almost no one 
follows that rule anymore.

Tracey
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english,comp.text,misc.education,fj.comp.text
From: shakib.otaqui@almac.co.uk
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: airline language
Date: 15 Oct 92 22:18:22 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: ALMAC BBS Ltd

L >   Airline pilots keep saying things like "We will be landing in
  >   30 minutes from now".  Is this correct?  To me, it is an
  >   incorrect combination of two correct expressions, namely
  >   "... landing in 30 minutes." and "... landing 30 minutes
  >   from now".  Opinions?

  Agreed.  But my favourite bit of airline speak is "We shall be
  taking off momentarily."

  I'd much rather the flight lasts a bit longer.


  Shakib


---
 ~ PQ 2.15 189 ~ Internet: shakib.otaqui@almac.co.uk
--
ALMAC BBS Ltd. 0324-665371
Dos based USENET access,  call for details!
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: sds@henry.ece.cmu.edu (Sherwood Daniel Silliman)
Subject: Re: Possessives, Contractions, & Apostrophes
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 00:12:46 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.190108.20874@sq.sq.com> msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader) writes:
>Omnibus example:
>	"Is this your book?"
>	"No, it's yours."
>	"You're right, it's mine!  Thanks!"

But it's lost its dustjacket!

-- 
Sherwood D. Silliman         "When I give food to the poor, they call me a
                              saint.  When I ask why the poor have no food,
                              they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: jbradfor@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jeffrey Bradford)
Subject: Final comma in lists
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 08:04:28 GMT

Whenever someone lists several items, I've always seen it in
the form of item1, item2, and item3.  Recently, however, I've been
seeing more and more people leave off the final comma, so they
write item1, item2 and item3.  This seems rather silly to me, not to
mention at times confusing.  So my question is, what do people out
there think of this, and why are people leaving off the final comma?  
(Are we having a comma shortage that no one told me about?)

Jeff
From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: bicycle scenery adjective
Date: 9 Oct 92 14:51:16 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada

In article <Bvux3x.K75@acsu.buffalo.edu> meachem@acsu.buffalo.edu (The Meach) writes:
>
>In article <718607662snx@warren.demon.co.uk> leveret@warren.demon.co.uk (Nick Leverton) writes:
>
>>Alternatively "jarring" is a short simple adjective; might that serve
>>the writer's purpose ? Or how about "disconcerting" - I think that's
>>probably one of the best I can think of quickly!
>
>I *do* like 'disconcerting' in the context, as I see it.  I am beginning to 
>think that it is time to defer back to the original poster. . . is the wish to
>describe the [negative] shock of suddenly coming upon the fast, noisy, all
>too modern highway scene in the midst of pastoral beauty, or to simply
>describe the observed contrast of the two scenes viewed simultaneously?
>My point of view is angled toward the latter interpretation, which is why I
>was critical of words that seemed to have a heavily negative feel for me.
>['Jarring' hits me the same way, Nick!]

I'm beginning to think the original poster is trying to cram a lot
into one adjective.  Now, I do like getting the "mot juste", but we
shouldn't expect a single adjective to do the work of a whole sentence
or paragraph.

And Jo is right that we're all guessing at the original poster's intent.
I hope he'll let us know his intents and conclusions?

>{Jo Meachem}

The Rhealist - Rheal Nadeau - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself
                  You're my best friend - Queen
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: chorley@vms.ocom.okstate.edu
Subject: Re: regress
Organization: OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 23:03:22 GMT

In article <570@alden.UUCP>, sgr@alden.UUCP (Stan Ryckman) writes:
> In article <492.234.uupcb@nitelog.com> michael.hagerty@nitelog.com (Michael Hagerty) writes:
> :On 10-10-92, Roger MacNicol wrote:
> :
> :RM> I am looking for a suitable transitive verb :

How about " to assbacckwardate"
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Question on apostrophes...
Date: 13 Oct 92 16:08:45 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Oct12.211653.8702@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi) writes:

Hello, Mandar!  Where've you been?  

>The current discussion on apostrophes had me wondering as to which of the foll.
>forms are correct :
>1. "Here are some dos and donts"
>2. "Here are some do's and dont's"
>3. "Here are some do's and don't's"
>Lauren mentioned that rule 4 (an apostrophe should be placed when words are
>mentioned as words in the plural e.g. "There are so many if's") has fallen
>out of favour with some people. How would people who still prefer this form
>write the above sentence? 

They'd have do go with #3.  I think I'd prefer to write:
"Here are some dos and don'ts."  

>    Incidentally a recent issue of TIME magazine used form 1 (evidently its
>editors do not favour placing an apostrophe)

Death to TIME.     

>P.S. Please tell me if there are any differences in the American and British
>     usage too...

C'mon, Mandar, this was pretty tame.  Isn't there _anything_ you're upset
about these days?

-- 
The trick of reason is to get the imagination to seize the actual world --
if only from time to time.     -- Annie Dillard, "An American Childhood"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: what's the word for...?
From: nikolay@husc10.harvard.edu (Philip Nikolayev)
Date: 10 Oct 92 20:36:17
Organization: Poets for Physics
In-reply-to: jhhardy@silver.ucs.indiana.edu's message of Sat, 10 Oct 1992 21:51:25 GMT

jhhardy@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (J. Hardy) writes:

> Is there an english word that refer to the part of a loaf of bread
> that isn't crust?

> What is it?

It's called crumb.

Philip Nikolayev at nikolay@husc.harvard.edu

Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: wwhitman@nevada.edu (MICHAEL WISE)
Subject: meaning of "troso"
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 08:14:45 GMT

My professor is looking for the meaning of troso. A graduate student of his
(not me) found it in a quote by Will Durant, but wasn't able to find it 
in the OED, Webster's Third International, or even Webster's Second Inter-
national. Please post or e-mail me, and I'll pass it along.
Michael Wise 
Afoot and light-hearted I set out on the open road...
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Adjective needed for the following scene.
Date: 7 Oct 92 12:54:36 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <1992Oct06.205057.128466@watson.ibm.com>, yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo) writes:
> Describe the following scene with a one word adjective:
> ==========
> You are riding your bicycle along a country dirt road and up ahead you
> see the massive concrete pillars  and steel girders of a interstate highway
> bridge. At that moment, enormous tractor-trailers are passing overhead.  
> The stench and the roar of the highway is overwhelming.
> 
> Then, suddenly, out of the corner of your eye, you notice cattle peacefully
> grazing in a meadow not too far from the road.
> ===========
> 
> Some of the words that I am considering are: anachronous, 

ANACHRONISTIC surely

> Can someone come up with a better word to describe the situation?
> 

The British countryside.
-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: luikero@pcuf.fi (Lauri Kero)
Subject: Re: Question on apostrophes...
Organization: PCUF
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 13:36:13 GMT

*>Here are some "do"s and "don't"s.
 
 That seems good for that context, but what do I do when I talk about
compact disks, for instance? Do I write CD's or CDs?
From: sgr@alden.UUCP (Stan Ryckman)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: regress
Date: 13 Oct 92 16:31:44 GMT
Organization: Alden Electronics, Westboro, MA

In article <492.234.uupcb@nitelog.com> michael.hagerty@nitelog.com (Michael Hagerty) writes:
:On 10-10-92, Roger MacNicol wrote:
:
:RM> I am looking for a suitable transitive verb to describe the process of
:RM> reverting to an earlier state.  I had used 'to regress' transitively
:RM> when describing a software tool that makes a file available to an
:RM> earlier release of some software (eg make WordPerfect 5.1 files
:RM> available to WordPerfect 4.2).
:
:The most commonly used term I have seen in this context is "to generate
:downwardly compatible files".

Hmm.  We've always referred to "backwardly compatible files/programs"
in this neck of the woods (New England).

Thinking about it, I can see time as back<->forward, but not as
down<->up.  On a calendar, the newer days are at the bottom
(i.e., "down"), which is in the opposite sense from your "downwardly
compatible" usage.

Stan.
--
X-Obligatory-.sig
    Stan Ryckman   sgr@alden.UUCP
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Cats'n'Dogs
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:06:49 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <ldme0aINNlhn@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller) writes:

>This is as good a time as any to intrroduce you to Geoff's Guide To
>Euphemisms -- a modern primer to assist one`s navigation through the
>mysterious and hazardous shoals of modern mealy-mouthed obfuscation:

[stuff deleted]

>                physically handicapped,         crippled

>                emotionally handicapped         crazy

>                mentally handicapped,           mentally retarded

>                vitally handicapped             dead



You're behind the times, Geoff -- people no longer use the term
"handicapped."  They say "differently abled."  


  
-- 
The trick of reason is to get the imagination to seize the actual world --
if only from time to time.     -- Annie Dillard, "An American Childhood"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: chorley@vms.ocom.okstate.edu
Subject: Re: bicycle scenery adjective
Organization: OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 17:21:49 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.111930.9425@vax.oxford.ac.uk>, wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:.
>> 
>> [with reference to the country lane/motorway scene]
>>
>> How about "Oh shit, not *another* motorway."
>> -- 
> 
	No mate, that's not a motorway, it's the M25 car park.
From: casseres@apple.com (David Casseres)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Multimeter / Multi-meter
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:13:15 GMT
Followup-To: alt.usage.english
Organization: Apple Computer Inc.

In article <1992Oct15.182108.3454@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>,
C.Thomas.Eyford.III@dartmouth.edu (C. Thomas Eyford III) wrote:
> 
> Then there are the few of us who say neither MUL-ti-me-ter nor
> MUL-ti-ME-ter.
> I prefer mul-TI-me-ter, accent on the second syllable, like as in
> speedometer, altimeter, odometer, chronometer, tachometer, thermometer,
> and about every other single-word meter I can think of.  Of course,
> consistency is not the English language's greatest asset, so I'm
> probably wrong.  
> 
> Oh well.

Actually, it is just because of consistency that you are wrong.  All the
examples you give above derive the first part of the word (speedo-, alti-,
etc.) from the name of the thing measured.  But multimeter doesn't; it
isn't an instrument that measures multi's, it's a combination of multiple
kinds of instruments.

--

David Casseres
Exclaimer: Wow!
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: harkema@phil.indiana.edu (Henk Harkema)
Subject: Re: Adjective needed for the following scene.
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 03:22:36 GMT

In article <718613743snx@warren.demon.co.uk> Nick Leverton writes:
 
> > Symbiotic perhaps?
>
> No, definitely not 'symbiotic'. Symbiotic refers to two organisms which
> both depend on each other for their very existence. The situation here
> is rather the opposite ...

A contradistinction exists by the grace of the opposite nature of
both its parts. The two scenes described here are certainly not
organisms, but what keeps us from using the word `symbiotic'
metaphorically?

Henk.
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: eepjm@wombat.newcastle.edu.au (Peter Moylan)
Subject: Re: Possessives, Contractions, & Apostrophes
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 04:21:45 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.155820.29454@advtech.uswest.com>, eade@advtech.uswest.com (Elizabeth Erickson) writes:
> 
> Can anyone supply a simply formulated set of rules for the use of
> apostrophes?  My husband is woefully ignorant on the subject, and believes
> that "it doesn't matter anyway, no one else knows how to use them, either".
> This drives me nuts.

It's in the FAQ file.  Now, if only we could track down that FAQ file.

Has anyone heard from Mark lately?  There's some sort of jinx on the
FAQ file.  Twice now we've nearly had it, and each time the editor has
mysteriously disappeared.

-- 
Peter Moylan                      eepjm@wombat.newcastle.edu.au

P.S. If anyone still wants it, I have a copy of that section of the
FAQ file somewhere here.  I think Lauren has adequately covered the
main points, though.
From: C.Thomas.Eyford.III@dartmouth.edu (C. Thomas Eyford III)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Multimeter / Multi-meter
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:21:08 GMT
 <casseres-071092100740@kip2-29.apple.com>  <19302@acorn.co.uk>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

Then there are the few of us who say neither MUL-ti-me-ter nor
MUL-ti-ME-ter.
I prefer mul-TI-me-ter, accent on the second syllable, like as in
speedometer, altimeter, odometer, chronometer, tachometer, thermometer,
and about every other single-word meter I can think of.  Of course,
consistency is not the English language's greatest asset, so I'm
probably wrong.  

Oh well.

-Tom
From: geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Multimeter / Multi-meter
Date: 15 Oct 92 22:54:28 GMT
Followup-To: alt.usage.english
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Menlo Park, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: purplehaze.corp.sun.com



My grandfather, who was an aviator back in the scarf-and-goggles days,
once told me that inhis day, "altimeter" was pronounced with the accent
on the first syllable: AL-ti-mee-ter.



Geoff


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Geoff Miller                    + + + + + + + +        Sun Microsystems
geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM  + + + + + + + +     Menlo Park, California
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: snark@blegga.u.washington.edu (David Howell)
Subject: Re: Question on apostrophes...
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 05:44:20 GMT

Here are some "do"s and "don't"s.

Although, personally, this is another one of those things
that I think, just because you CAN do it, doesn't mean
you SHOULD.

Here are some things you should and should not do.

Things to do, and things to avoid.

Stuff to keep in mind...

Dave Howell
SnarkWorks Typesetting & Book Design


Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart)
Subject: Re: Cats'n'Dogs
Organization: peevish, at best
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 23:40:57 GMT

In article <ldme0aINNlhn@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>
geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller) writes:

>This is as good a time as any to intrroduce you to Geoff's Guide To
>Euphemisms -- a modern primer to assist one`s navigation through the
>mysterious and hazardous shoals of modern mealy-mouthed obfuscation:
>
>
>                EUPHEMISM                       TRANSLATION
>                ---------                       -----------
: 
>                food server or waitperson       waitress (otherwise simply
>                                                "waiter")
:
>                -person (suffix)                -woman
>                (e.g., "spokesperson")
No, that should be                               -man

E.g. "Chairman" refers to a position in an organization, not the sex
of the person holding that position.
 
>                person with AIDS (PWA)          AIDS victim
Or AIDS carrier, depending on context.
 
>                "battling" a disease            dying from a disease
Sometimes you win.

Peeve: I didn't think of some of those first.

Anti-peeve: They now publish entire dictionaries of PC-speak.  Some of
them are hilarious.  Some of them are intended to be funny.  These
sets do not coincide.

++++++++++++++++++++Seth     sethb@fid.morgan.com+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
     Once upon a time, a few brilliant men created a system that empowered its
users, gave them freedom, and provided a few essential services.
     Now it is old, slow, easily corrupted, overly restrictive, too large and
confusing for anyone to understand, plagued with inconsistencies, and
run by men who only care about money.  (The subject is UNIX :)
-- bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: kgs@panix.com (Karen Schneider)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Is "meaningfully" a word?
Date: 11 Oct 92 13:01:33 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <1992Oct8.230952.1441@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu> aroshwald@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes:

>In article <57560039@hpscit.sc.hp.com>, fish@hpscit.sc.hp.com (John Fisher) writes:
>> phil@iagu.itd.adelaide.edu.au (Phil Kernick) writes:
>> 
>>>Is "meaningfully" a word?
>>>
>>>I have checked several dictionarys but I cannot find it.
>>>
>>>Phil.
>> 
>> From Webster's New World Dictionary, Third College Edition:
>> "mean*ing*ful adj. full of meaning; having significance or purpose."
>> 
>> 
>> John Fisher at Hewlett-Packard |
>> in Santa Clara, CA             |  This is as bad as it can get,
>> fish@sc.hp.com                 |  but don't bet on it.
>Well that doesn't help much, does it? It's the adverbial form
>that Phil seems to have been after. In any case the Pocket Oxford
>Dictionary indicates that `meaningfully' is indeed meaningful.

Webster's New Collegiate (1979) duly notes the existence of 
"meaningfully" without comment or caveat.


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
K.G.Schneider  kgs@panix.com

"Prudence keeps life safe, but does not often make it happy"