HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: martillo@stars.clearpoint.com (Joachim Martillo)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship
Subject: Re: BACK TO LIMBAUGH'S SECRET NONAGENDA
Date: 23 Aug 92 16:47:26 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: Clearpoint Inc., Hopkinton, MA

In article <EGGERTJ.92Aug23000353@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu> eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu writes:

>[re the 1950's Israeli bomb attacks on the US information center
>libraries in Cairo and Alexandria]

As I remember, Egyptian Jews worried by the departure of Western
military forces tried to create an incident which would force the
Westerners to stay.  As the indigenes ruled themselves disastrously
over the next 40 years, wishing to keep Egypt under rule of civilized
Westerners was not necessarily a wrong wish.

The local Jews involved the Israeli intelligence in their effort but
it was never clear who were leaders and who were followers in the
Lavon affair.

>>   When you have to dig into pre-history to find anything that vaguely
>>   resembles the continuing and current modus-operandi of the PLO, it
>>   shows how weak your argument is.  

>Just what is your time limit on partisan politics, Jake?  Looks like
>40 years is too long when it involves Israeli terrorism, and (from
>earlier in your same posting)

>>   Palestinean Arabs, like other Arabs, have for centuries resorted to
>>   gross violence for the solution of even minor disputes.

>about two hundred years is none too long when it involves Palestinian
>violence.  What a hypocrite.

>=Jim  eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)

Whether those of us of Arabic/Islamic background wish to admit it or
not, violence, murder, slaughter and genocide is much more endemic to
Arabic/Islamic society, politics and culture than to Israeli/Jewish
society, politics and culture.  Now Eggert wishes to champion Arabic
causes against Israelis, and that is fine, but trying to obscure basic
Arabic/Islamic problems does nobody any favors (least of all Arabic
people who really have to address these problems some time soon) and
makes it easier for those either impartial or sympathetic to Israelis
to dismiss Arab grievances as vapid and vacuous.

--
Joachim Carlo Santos Martillo Ajami

The article represents noone's opinions other than the author's.
From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: zuma.UUCP ???
Date: 3 Sep 92 09:41:20 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

In article <1992Sep3.003353.524@vms.huji.ac.il>, backon@vms.huji.ac.il writes:
> Sigh !
>
> I actually took the trouble to check if zuma.uucp is, in fact, on the maps.
> I checked the UUMAP database via a WAIS server and got zilch. NOTHING !
> I had no idea one could forge a posting from a nonexistant UUCP site :-) :-)
>
> Score another one for MUTLU.
>
> Josh
> backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL


Well this time I  did a manual search of comp.mail.maps and I did come up with
a site called zuma0. I've already contacted the postmaster at the site to see
                  ^
whether Serdar Argic has an account there. Needless to say, his posts seem
to have been sent via  daemom@ucbvax.berkeley.edu.

In any case, if I see ANY postings by Hasan Mutlu (alias or not) on
talk.politics.mideast, on Monday I will go to the American Cultural Center in
Jerusalem, obtain the 1992 fax directory, find the fax number of the Turkish
Embassy in Washington, and fire off my complaint to the Information Officer
via an email to fax gateway in Washington I have access to.

Josh
backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL




Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: ebrahim@ee.umanitoba.ca (Mohamad Ebrahimi)
Subject: Re: Soviet Nuclear Weapons Stolen? / The Count
Organization: Elect & Comp Engineering, U of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba,Canada
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 23:34:35 GMT


   In article: <5819@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at>mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner) writes:

>                                           ...I remember a quote
>from the Iranian minister of foreign relations, about two or three
>years ago, to the effect of "There are no political prisoners in Iran.
>All of them have now be executed.  This sad chapter in our history is
>behind us and we can go on unhindered by human rights problems."


1-It's pure dishonesty to change someone's quote, and I'm sure
  you don't have any source to show about the above quote. But, it's
  not a bad idea to ask you to show your source.

2-Iranian authirities always have insisted that there is no political 
  prisoner in Iran, and whoever is arressted in Iran is for committing
  certain crimes or unlawful actions, and not merely having some kind
  of political view. I'm sure Iran's foreign minister has been telling
  some thing like this.

>Markus Stumptner                                mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at
>University of Technology Vienna                 vexpert!mst@relay.eu.net
>aniglg. 16, A-1040 Vienna, Austria             ...mcsun!vexpert!mst


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT: RABIN MEETING
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 03:41:53 GMT

martillo@stars.clearpoint.com (Joachim Martillo) writes:
#dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:

[My original posting deleted to save space].

#Be serious.  Elghani is a Christian Lebanese convert to Islam who is
#desparately trying to prove his Arabic and Muslim credentials by
#taking completely extreme positions.  He can hardly be considered
#representative either of any Arabic or any Muslim people except for
#the rather psychotic group of non-Arabic Oriental Christians who
#convert to Islam for ideological reasons.  Unfortunately these people
#tend to be rather more vocal than most other Islamic or Arabic people
#in Western languages.  While Arabic and Islamic culture has some major
#problems, hypothesizing that Arabic people are sheep blindly following
#dictators is a rather reductionist and somwhat insulting.

And it is a hypothesis I didn't make. That is why I mentioned
"historical importance". Elganhi seems to be caught in a time
warp, reciting the rantings of the great pan-arabism of the
fifties and sixties. When I wrote "most readers might regard
his posters as nothing but lunatic ravings" I included the
Arab/Muslim readers in as well.

-Danny Keren.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000)
Subject: Re: What are you sucking on, Anwar?  (was Re: John Elghani sucking on his toes)
Organization: LC
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:54:55 GMT

In article <Btv5uF.4z6@apollo.hp.com> goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman) writes:
>In article <3662@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>...
>>that is my point.  I am also saying, which you are ignoring, that
>>all Muslims are entitled to their equal share in the distribution
>>of wealth - this is not Sabah's land or money or even that of the
>>land know as Kuwait - it belongs to all the Muslim people. ...
>...
>
>    I wonder how one can tell if a land belongs to "all the Muslim 
>    people" as opposed to a Muslim tribe or even, gasp, infidels.
>
>    What happens, for example, when a Muslim like you or John Elghani
>    buys a parcel of land?  Does it make "all Muslims" entitled to
>    their equal share of that parcel, or is it a "mine is mine, and 
>    yours is mine too" line of reasoning?


Remember, those oil wells were not purchased by those thief Amirs.  When
OIL was discovered in the Gulf and other parts of the ME, people
that were in charge took it all.  An old Bahrain man was
describing these stories to a Lebanese journalist, and the 
interview was published in the Lebanese newspaper Sawt Al Haq.   The
man saying how those Amirs took those oil wells.   When an oil field
is discovered, the Sheikh or Amir then comes and says: its all mine,
mine, mine.  Recall, the Sabah family has been controlling Kuwait
way before the OIL was discovered in that land.    Ask Anwar,
why doesn't his father own some 100 oil wells like typical
Sabahis?

jle
>
>
>
>-- 
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Disclaimer: all opinions are mine.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000)
Subject: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT: RABIN MEETING
Organization: LC
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:15:23 GMT

In article <Btp39J.Cy0.2@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>In article <1992Aug27.191306.2431880@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
>>In article <BtnAz1.GCo.2@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>>>
>>>The point is that this is all a LOT MORE than you could say 
>>>for any other Arab country.  I've yet to see someone challenge 
>>>this statement.
>>>
>>>Before responding, it is important to point out that I 
>>>posted that this was a good "first step". 
>>
>>Question to Mr. Anwar Mxxxxxxd:
>>
>>Would you rather see Kuwait run by a 100% true moslem government
>>with a 100% true moslem leader regardless if the leader was Kuwaiti,
>>Iraqi, or Afghani?  Or you'd rather have the Shabah family continue
>>to ride Kuwait.
>
>I would like to see Kuwait run by a Kuwaiti, just like I'd like to 
>see Lebanon run by Lebanese, Syria run by Syrians, Jordan run by 
>Jordanians, Egypt run by Egyptians, etc.  My personal opinion is that
>state and religious institutions should reman seperate to a degree.
>You've got a problem with that?

I told you, you should not carry the name "Mohammed".  Islam and
politics cannot be separated.  Recall that the Prophet established
a government.  Read the Quran and the Serat,  both are full of
governmental guidance.

Besides, who placed the Kuwaiti or the Lebanese borders.  You appear
to believe in the British orders too much.  The British named you
Kuwaiti and the Hijaz people Saudi, then you adored his word, but 
the words of the Quran and the Prophet must be ignored right?

Accordingly, you perfer a kuwaiti thief ruler instead of a just 
Palestinian or Egyptian.  Therefore, you'd reject Pr. Mohammed to 
rule you since he's a Saudi, right?

I conclude from your words that you are anti islam just like your
Amir.

jle


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman)
Subject: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT: RABIN MEETING
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:50:57 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Aug28.223417.2436830@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
...
>I look forward for the day that Israel will occupy Mecca.
...
>I said it over and over.  The Iraqi war was initiated secretely by
>the Israelis ...

    John, you never told us how the Israelis did it.  Given that,
    by your own admission, your activities are planned by Israel,
    you may be uniquely qualified to shed some light on their
    secret plans.  Is Saddam Hussein an Israeli agent too?
    Saddam once revealed that King Fahd and his family were Jewish...
    If so, Mecca is already controlled, if not occupied, by the Jews!






-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: all opinions are mine.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: idfriedm@hertz.uwaterloo.ca (id friedman)
Subject: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT: RABIN MEETING
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 15:59:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.223417.2436830@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
>In article <1992Aug28.142332.20788@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
><<Abunch of senseless attacks deleted>>
>
>>Cheers to Kuwait. 
>
>Now that Kuwait has the Israelis on their side, they've got no one
>to fear.  Hopefully they can remember to fear their creator.
>Well, both Kuwait and the Israelis have the following in common:
>
>1- Slaughter the Palestinians.

   Right!!

>2- Unfair trials to the Palestinians.
>3- Iraq as #1 enemy.

 From Israel's standpoint, ** I think ** that Syria beats Iraq.

>4- Support to John Gurung against the fair government of Sudan.
>5- Palestinian expulsion.

 Israel expels people who have committed terrorist activity, and only
 in very select cases. Kuwait expels them by the thousands.

 People make a bigger deal of Israel's acts, than they do about those of
 Kuwait. Hypocracy?


>
>I look forward for the day that Israel will occupy Mecca.  Are we 
>going to see Kuwaiti women welcoming them like they welcomed the
>british in Kuwait?
>
>I said it over and over.  The Iraqi war was initiated secretely by
>the Israelis for the following reasons:

 Extremely absurd!!



 Proof???


 Personally I think that Argentina secretly initiated WWII so that
 Europe and America would weaken themselves out, thereby increasing
 its power!!!

>
>1-  To destroy any power the arabs have, or potentially the moslems.
>    They succeeded so far.

 And have the U.S refurnish Saudi and other countries with top weapons!!

>
>2-  To split the arabs in 1/2.  They succeeded so far. Look at the 

 Arabs have always been  split, to a larger or smaller extent.

 Israel was also hit by scuds, and the country ground to a halt.    
 I guess that's good too. 


>    fights between Anwar and Anisa for example.
>
>3-  To drain out the money out of the Gulf to eliminate potential
>    strength the arabs may gain via money.
>    They're succeeding so far;  Saudia is borrowing money.
>
>Israel fabricates, the US obeys/applies, and the arabs and the americans die,
>the israelis are saved.  Congratulations 
>to Al Khalifa Mr. Anwar Mohxxxed la radiya allaho anho.
>
>jle

IShay
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT: RABIN MEETING
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:02:44 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <Btp39J.Cy0.2@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>
>I would like to see Kuwait run by a Kuwaiti, just like I'd like to 
>see Lebanon run by Lebanese, Syria run by Syrians, Jordan run by 
>Jordanians, Egypt run by Egyptians, etc.  My personal opinion is that
>state and religious institutions should reman seperate to a degree.
>You've got a problem with that?

Unfortunately it is not that easy in such a traditionalist society.

The facts are, that the non-Muslim governments and people want to
mold it into their own standards and are too busy in intervening in
their policies and that is where the main conflict lies.  They are
too fearful of a strong Islamic government and nation, despite what
the majority *want*, and will continue to suppress it by installing
ruthless puppet regimes (Syria, Iraq, Algeria) and pseudo emirates
and sheikdoms (Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain).  The people,
of course, are always the recipients of injustice, poverty, and
dehumanization.  And that is why people like Kaddafi, et al are
allowed to exist.

Such is the case with your own government after the war, Anwar.

Anisa

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman)
Subject: Re: What are you sucking on, Anwar?  (was Re: John Elghani sucking on his toes)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 19:51:50 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

In article <3662@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
...
>that is my point.  I am also saying, which you are ignoring, that
>all Muslims are entitled to their equal share in the distribution
>of wealth - this is not Sabah's land or money or even that of the
>land know as Kuwait - it belongs to all the Muslim people. ...
...

    I wonder how one can tell if a land belongs to "all the Muslim 
    people" as opposed to a Muslim tribe or even, gasp, infidels.

    What happens, for example, when a Muslim like you or John Elghani
    buys a parcel of land?  Does it make "all Muslims" entitled to
    their equal share of that parcel, or is it a "mine is mine, and 
    yours is mine too" line of reasoning?



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: all opinions are mine.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Re: BILL CLINTON ON ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 20:13:13 GMT

>>You own it now? It looks like you are proud of admitting that it was
>>ours and now it is yours. 
>
>No; I'm proud to say it's ours; last people who had it were the
>British. You can try to say it *should* be yours all you want,
>but to suggest it is currently yours is a denial of reality that
>verges on the schizophrenic. Get used to the facts whether or not
>you like them -- because they're much easier to fight effectively
>that way, if for no other reason.
>


BULL!


-- 
Nabil Idriss                           |       FOR EVERY ACTION AN OPPOSITE  
NCR - Midrange Products Division       |       AND EQUAL REACTION.
      Columbia, South Carolina         |      
email: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM |
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.misc
From: horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen)
Subject: Re: Arabs/leftists? (was Re: Computer Science in Israel Ignored)
Organization: Renaissance Software, Inc.
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 18:56:14 PDT

In article <1992Aug30.165318.4726@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

[...]

>	Not that it matters, but I probably agree with you about
>Arab-Americans being typically conservative, at least as far as their
>organiztions go.  I do not know about the majority of individual Arabs,
>however I have seen some Arab Americans (James Zogby in particular)
>speaking on behalf of their organizations in what most people would
>call a "conservative" tone.

Of course they're conservative -- do you honestly think that any one of
them wants to go back to Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, etc.? Here
they are successful academics, students, respected business people; there
what will they do? Pick olives in the Galil?? Drive taxis?? Become "freedom
fighters"??

And for those 35+, do you think that any of them want to deny their children
the opportunity to acquire an education and/or profession?

Of course they're conservative -- and of course they're scared. I remember
what happened in 1979, when Muslim fundamentalists overthrew the Shah of
Iran; most Iranians in the US started displaying American flags in the
windows of their stores, flew them in front of their homes, or put American
flag bumper stickers on their cars. I remember what happened last year when
Saddam Hussein overran Kuwait, and the US military got involved; most Iraquis
in the US started displaying American flags...

We all remember what happened to the Japanese living in the US during WWII,
and to the Germans living here, as well.

And so do Arab-Americans. And so, too, do most Israeli-Americans.

(and before that trio-of-dickheads, Phill Hallem-Baker, Jeremy Henderson,
and Brendan McKay, accuse me of saying that Arab-Americans and other Arabs
in the US better be careful or we'll deport them, let me state that this
is neither my opinion nor my wish -- but let me also state that t.p.m.
readers ought to look at from where in the world these three are posting)

j.horen@rs.com
SysAdmin/TechWriter
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Subject: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT: RABIN MEETING
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 15:33:17 GMT

In article <3649@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>In article <1992Aug27.024445.4030@mcs.kent.edu> rayes@Snake.mcs.kent.edu (Sandra Rayes) writes:
>>
>>Of course, what Anwar does not tell our distinguished readers of tpm, and
>>I am more than happy to, are the following comparisons that make equating
>>England with Kuwait ridiculous:
>
>Great effort ... doing yourself proud :)

Sheesh.  I guess at least she didn't accuse Kuwaitis have having "harams" filled 
with women.   This is on par with an American friend of mine once asking me if
we all "rode on camels and wore swords".

-anwar


-- 
Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome)    School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT: RABIN MEETING
Date: 26 Aug 92 20:04:55 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <BtKFvM.8sD.2@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>In article <3628@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>
>>Yes, but do you have any solutions on getting rid of the dictators
first?
>
>Perhaps by following the example of Kuwait by holding constitutionally 
>mandated elections and allowing the Press to freely discuss issues related 
>to the elections.  

Does those 'constitutionally mandated elections' include opponents of
the monarchial regime?  Is the 'Press' allowed 'to freely discuss issues
related' to criticism of the corruption of the monarchial, non-Islamic,
and authoritative regime?

Are the majority of people just content with the newest in Mercedes Benz,
and Cadillacs?  Shopping for the latest style in 28 carat gold?  Counting
their interest in the bank?  Or of the tragedies and extremities of poverty
in the Arab and Muslim world?  Or supporting a government that calls on
world?  Of supporting a government that calls on another nation to defend
it?  
>
>I would also suggest to you that you clean up your own backyard before
>stepping into ours, as you seem to have a tendency to do.

Yes - and what about Algeria?  The Middle East Peace Talks?

Or are we back to being just self-centered, ignorant, and selfish
of our own needs and desires?

Anisa

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Re: BILL CLINTON ON ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 20:32:17 GMT

In article <25344@castle.ed.ac.uk> egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
>In article <1992Aug28.154918.2856@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
>=>In article <25274@castle.ed.ac.uk> egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
>=>>
>=>>It's pretty clear that the Cuban people preferred Castro to Batista, the
>=>>US puppet. The US boycott has nothing to do with morality, as is made
>=>>evident by US support for despots throughout the globe.
>=>
>=>Seriously, Jeremy.  That's just out-and-out revisionism.  If this were
>=>the case, where did 70% of South Florida's Cuban population come from?
>=>I'll give you a clue:  most of them fled the Castro regime either in the
>=>last months before he took over, or in the first year or so after he took
>=>over.
>
>They didn't want to live in a war-zone, or a country where life has been
>made difficult by constant US aggression. The same pattern was seen in
>Nicaragua.

And for both countries, you need to read some history, not propaganda.
Those people didn't just flee a war zone.  They fled for a specific
reason.  That reason has a name - Fidel Castro.


-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder