HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ys3359@thor.albany.edu (Yazmasterj)
Subject: Re: Young and Restless
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 15:26:07 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.191753.10184@topaz.ucq.edu.au> chishtim@topaz.ucq.edu.au writes:
>Whenever I read Pakistan Bulletin Board, I find either a
>religous, or a political war in progress.
>
>It made one of Pakistani MBA student, totally ignorant of his
>studies, even though he is the only "cape of good hope" for his parents
>in this world.
>
>Can we make a better use of this facility ?
>
>It is a point to ponder for those, who are dumping all this junk
>on this bulletin board, without thinking about the feelings of other peoples.
>
>I will suggest this "Young and Restless" group to re-direct it's
>energies towards better goals.

Assalamoalaikum

	The point of the Pakistan newsgroup is to discuss things which
are important and relevant to Pakistanis (not to slight our Indian
counterparts in this newsgroup :) .  When you have such a large group
of people, disagreements are inevitable.  It would not be prudent to
sweep these disagreements under the proverbial rug.  Disagreements allow
both sides to analyze and carefully justify their points of view, hopefully
shedding misconceptions and rumors in the process.  While I fully believe
that a respect for the readers and their beliefs must always be preserved,
doing away with the disagreements would take away an important analytical
process clarifying our various beliefs.  Eventually I suppose, when the
disagreement comes down to a repetition of the basic ideas, people should
probably agree to disagree (strictly IMHO).

	Those who find it distracting may use their respective KILL files
for maximum utility.

Khudahafiz

Yasmin

**************************************************************************
*                                   *                                    *
*  Yasmin Sohrawardy                *  "Only Nixon can go to China"      *
*                                   *                                    *
*  Internet:  ys3359@csc.albany.edu *            - Ancient Vulcan        *
*                                   *              Proverb               *
**************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: iqbal@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu (Kamran Iqbal)
Subject: THE TRUTH ABOUT THE "PROMISED MESSIAH"- III
Originator: iqbal@seine.eng.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Electrical Engineering
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 16:28:54 GMT


		THE TRUTH ABOUT THE "PROMISED MESSIAH" - III
		********************************************

	It may be said (without making any comparision) that his
advent will be like the visit of former head of the state in the time
of the ruling head of the state under him.  Even a person of ordinary
common sence can understand that the mere visit and arrival of the
former head of the state in the time of a ruling head of the state
does not effect the constitution at all.  The constitution, however,
will be violated in two cases: First, that the former head of the
should, on his return, try to resume office of the head of state;
second; that somebody should challenge his former position of the head
of the stae, for this would be tantamount to challenging the validity
of all the works that has been accomplished during his past tenure of
office.  If neither case exits, the former head of the states' arrival
by itself does not effect any change in the constitutional position of
the country.

	The same will be case with the Prophet Jesuss' second coming.
His mere advent does not effect the Finallity of the Prophethood.
However, if he resumes the office of prophethood on his advent and
start performing the duties and the functions of Prophethood, or
somebody repudiates and disowns his being the former Prophet also,
this would certainly violate the sanctity of Allah's Law of raising
Prophets in the world.  The traditions have clearly ruled out the
possibility of both.  On the one hand, they explain that no other
prophet will be raised after the Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and on
the other, they give the news thaat Jesus son of Mary will come for
the second time.  This clearly shows that this second coming of Jesus
will not be for the purpose of performing the duties of the office of
the Prophethood.

	Likewise, his second advent will also not create the new
question of belief and unbelief among the Muslims.  Even a person's
disbelief in his being the former Prophet, he turns an apostate.  The
Holy prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself believed in his Prophethood and
entire Ummah has been his believer from the very beginning.  The same
will be his position then.  The muslims will not have to beleive in a
new Prophet, but will believe in Jesus son of Mary as a former prophet
as do they do today.  This neither contrary to the belief in the
Finality of Prophethood today nor will be so then.

-- 
KAMRAN IQBAL	  | In the name of Allah, the beneficient, the merciful.
Dept of Elec Eng  |  "I bear witness that there is no god but ALLAH,
Ohio State Univ   |   I bear witness that MUHAMMAD is his messenger".
From: merchant@davidsys.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Women and Burqa: Analyzing the recent discussion
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:33:25 PST
Organization: DAVID Systems Inc, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Apr13.094709.30010@davidsys.com>, merchant@davidsys.com writes:
> In article <12281@tamsun.tamu.edu>, gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal) writes:

>> Yes, I have read one of the translations of some verse that goes like this:
>> "And tell the believeing women-folk to be chaste in their looking and to keep
>> their sexual instincts under control and not parading their charms beyond what
>> is chastely seen but drawing their veils over their bosoms. Let them not
>> display their charms except to ...(a whole lot relations mentioned here...)
>> Let them not draw attention to theirr hidden charms by the way they tap their
>> legs..."   -- surah 24.27-33 (I'm not sure what this means). 

This means that a woman may be fully covered but she also needs to
ensure that movement of her chest not be visible, I think. [embarassed..]

>> 
> 
> No, the hadith I was referring to follows:
> 'Aishah related that when Asmah the daughter of Abu Bakr came to
> visit Rasulullah (pbuh) waring thin clothes he turned away from

I meant wearing instead of waring.  I tend to blind type. As a result
my thoughts run faster than my fingers, and have a tendency to drop
words or letters as one may have noticed.  Ussually, I go back and
check, but sometimes I dont. :-) Sorry. :-)

> her and said:
> 	When a woman comes of age, it is not right that any part
> 	of her should be seen, except this and this.  And he pointed
> 	to his face and his hands. 
> 	(Abu Daud)
> ------------------
> The above hadith was taken from the book "Guidance from the Messenger(pbuh)",
> a treasury of ahadith, by Dr. Mazhar ul-Hag Kazi.
> 
Rukhsana [red-faced :-) ] Merchant
From: salama@topaz.ucq.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: ashaar
Date: 7 Apr 92 16:32:53 AET
Organization: University of Central Queensland, Australia

       
    
Chand Ashaar hazir-e-khidmat,
    aor kea mushkil bemakani ki
    jub safar hi main zindagani ki

    ghair sey mera haal poocha hay
    kea khabar kispar mehrbani ki
From: aq0@engr.uark.edu (Amer Qureshi)
Subject: NEWS from DAWN March 27, 1992.
Organization: University of Arkansas
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 04:46:22 GMT

Govt. thinking of Privatising higher education.

Government of Pakistan is thinking of Privitising Higher education.
This would reduce the burden of govt. in this field. Though uptil
now this was just discussed in a meeting, but may be applied in
1992.

Govt. has encouraged private sector to come up in establishing
Private higher education institutions. 

Also this type of privitisation has been also demanded by World
Bank.

Amer Qureshi. source: DAWN, March 27, 1992.


-------------------------------------------------------


French Jogger feared lost in Pakistan.

An ameature French Jogger, planning to jog 1 the world in
3 years covering 50,000 kms approx. has been not heard of after
reaching Pakistan.

The Jogger who started from a small french town in Sep '91, called
his family from Quetta and mailed a postcard from Sibbi in mid of
Feb '92. That was the last when his family ever heard from him.
His family said that he had no financial or health troubles of any
kind when he last called.

Frech embassy in Islamabad is investigating.

Amer Qureshi, source: DAWN, March 27, 1992.
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: number of wives : Analyzing the recent discussion
Date: 12 Apr 1992 13:44:51 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu

In article <IdtSuSy00WAoA1tlQd@andrew.cmu.edu> sohan+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sohan C. Ramakrishna-Pillai) writes:
:Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.pakistan: 8-Apr-92 Re: Women and
:Burqa: Analyz.. Yazmasterj@sarah.albany. (2580)
:
:: There are many cases where the passages of the Quran were
:: 	addressed directly to the Prophet or members of his household
:: 	which were not applied to others.  For example, the Prophet
:: 	was allowed to have nine wives while the limit on all other
:: 	Muslim men is four.  The wives of the Prophet were not allowed
:
:Hmm...cough...cough...
:Actually, it is not clear whether the limit of nine wives is restricted
:to the Prophet. Nor is it clear that the limit is indeed nine. Some
:accounts give the number of the Prophet's wives as nine, some say n
:wives and 12 minus n concubines or some such.

Recently, we found that in such discussion it does a world of
good to first lay down the basic ground rules. Before we start on 
Sohan C. Ramakrishna-Pillai's tangent we first must lay down
our frame of reference. Simply, are we going to debate this
issue from "within" Quran and "sunnah" or from out of it.
That's the whole problem. As we say earlier when Mr. Gopal
Agarwal really did the world of good from his thought experiment.
It clarified much of the ambiguity from many people's mind
about their own position.

His thought experiment was similar to the following:


-------------------------------------------------------------------
The Thought Experiment: 
			Now ASSUME that the Quran explicitly (I mean 
really explicitly in big bold CAP fonts) mentioned that the maximum
number of wives (100%/definetely/under all circumstances) is exactly
"four". I mean there is no ambiguity whatsoever as to this
injunction. The position is exactly as the present Ulema state, then:

WOULD YOU ACCEPT the injunction?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Then Mr. Gopal added:

  I have once posted a similar question on the net. The kind of response
  I got was "But its not conceivable that the Quran will say such a thing
  because it doesn't.... Its illogical to imagine things about what the 
  Quran says if it does not say it... Since it does not say this, your 
  question is invalid" etc. 
  
  Clearly they did not understand the meaning of 'thought experiment'. 
  I hope you do. Or if you feel this is offending to Quran, maybe you 
  could assume that you belong to some religion X (not Islam) and your 
  faith in X is just as strong as it is now in Islam. Then assume that 
  the holy book of X says the above thing.  (Is it too unimaginable
  for you as being born in another religion?).  


Thanks are due to Mr. Gopal who showed me the correct way
of approaching such questions

Irfan Hyder

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: vu0208@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (!)
Subject: Re: SCARY THOUGHT
Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 11:36:43 GMT

In article <45006@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> khan@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (LAHORI POOND) writes:


>I just had a very scary thought.What would happen if all the people
> on SCP were locked in a room without any exits.This is a very scary thought     indded any comments??.


An ingenious thought experiment indeed.

How big is this room, does it have any windows or a ceiling!
Also imagine if there is no cold water or ice in this room! scarier...!


>   lahori(LHL 111) Poond
>
>


Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: aq0@engr10.uark.edu (Amer Qureshi)
Subject: Pak Hockey star in drug net...
Organization: University of Arkansas
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 18:54:10 GMT

PAK HOCKEY STAR IN DRUG NET
ISLAMABAD - Mussadiq Hussain, a centre-forward in the Pakistan Hockey team,
has tested positive for anabolic steroids and, thus, faces a mandatory
two year ban according to the International Olympic Committee rules.

Amer Qureshi, India news Digest, Tuesday Apr 7, 1992, issue.
From: jamal@caen.engin.umich.edu (Jamal Mubarak)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Eid Mubarak
Date: 4 Apr 92 10:33:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: engin.bZh+VN-
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

Okay, okay.  Now that my last name has been thrown about so many
times on this net (and misspelled too), here are Eid Greetings
from me to all muslims who read this net.

Wassalaam,

Jamal [Mubarak] ...
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: ys3359@thor.albany.edu (Yazmasterj)
Subject: Re: Women and Burqa: Analyzing the recent discussion
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 23:55:06 GMT

In article <ku95uvINN7b2@pageboy.cs.utexas.edu> hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder) writes:
>>	There are many cases where the passages of the Quran were
>>	addressed directly to the Prophet or members of his household
>>	which were not applied to others.  For example, the Prophet
>>	was allowed to have nine wives while the limit on all other
>>	Muslim men is four.  The wives of the Prophet were not allowed
>>	to remarry after his death.  The verse in question here 
>>	specifically declared that the wives of the Prophet were not
>>	like others.  As I am at work right now and do not have the
>>	Quran with me I cannot give you an exact quote, however I
>>	believe the verse pointedly stated that the wives of the
>>	Prophet were not like other women.  This would seem to imply
>>	that this is another of the rules which were applicable only
>>	to the Prophet and his household.  The exact verse has
>>	been quoted in a previous post of mine in reply to Mr. Jafry.
>>
>
>The reply above, in fact supports my argument. The above rejoinder to
>my comment gives example of some verses which are ONLY intended for the people
>who were being addressed, while I pointed to some example of verses which
>were specifically addressed to certain people but were intended for
>all Muslims for all times. 

	In general, addressing a statement to Ibrahim or Noah would
	be rather futile in the Quran since they were long dead.
	The statements to them were part of stories which provided rules
	by example.  However, the statements addressed to the Prophet
	or to members of his household were being addressed to living
	people.  There is a difference here.  In addition, the verse
	in question specifically said YOU ARE NOT LIKE OTHER WOMEN.
	This is something which you keep ignoring in your replies calling
	me naive.

>We therefore can say that there is some
>"more complex" criteria for determining which one is which. This
>in fact supports my contention that:


	I sense some missing statements.


>Concluding  that:
>  
>	simply  because 
>		a certain verse adrresses, "specificaly" the "addressee", 
>
>	it is therefore 
>		intended for ONLY the addressee 
>
>is a  "naive attempt". 
>
>QED

Khudahafiz

Yasmin


**************************************************************************
*                                   *                                    *
*  Yasmin Sohrawardy                *  "Only Nixon can go to China"      *
*                                   *                                    *
*  Internet:  ys3359@csc.albany.edu *            - Ancient Vulcan        *
*                                   *              Proverb               *
**************************************************************************
From: khan@davidsys.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: An Absence of Saints
Date: 13 Apr 92 11:57:50 PST
Organization: DAVID Systems Inc, Sunnyvale CA

  Most muslims think that they can learn Islam
just by reading the Holy Quran and praying,
all by themselves, without the need for any teacher.
  Although, Allah [swt] will send His light to
whomever He wishes, depending upon the cleanliness
of the person's heart, it is recommended that
people search for teachers of Islam. 
  A true teacher of Islam will be devoid of 
any political goal for self-exaltation or
to be admired by those around him or her.
A true teacher of Islam will also have spiritual
gifts, which can only come by permission of
the Vice President of the Universe, 
Muhammad Mustafa, the Rasul-Allah [saw].
  How do we recognise a true teacher of Islam?
By Signs. A true teacher of Islam will invite
and embrace all people, and no matter if anyone
accepts his or her point of view, that person 
would still be inspired by the meeting, and
leave a little wiser than before.
  A true teacher of Islam does not address
the brain. A true teacher of Islam addresses
the soul of the person. The knowledge from
beyond cannot be comprehended by the brain,
it can only be comprehended by the soul.
The connection between the living body and
the soul is made once the wall of ego is
destroyed. Then the heart is opened and
the communication is established.
  There seems to be an absence of wali's
and saints in our time. People are following
a dry interpretation of Islam where the implementation
of the religion seems awkward. And it should,
as it is devoid of interpretation thru soul.
  Knowledge can only be applied if there is
a developed perception. If you can see and identify
a certain situation, only then can you apply 
the knowledge. If you cannot even see, you
are lost. This seeing is developed thru the heart.
Thus, dry application of all the rules and regulations
just leads to more confusion, and people turning away
from the religion.
  At one time there were a lot of students and
carriers of knowledge that propagated knowledge
from the Prophet [saw] and his companions, 
onwards thru the centuries. This was a special
knowledge that was more than the apparent knowledge
as understood by the ordinary human being 
thru the Quran and the recorded Hadith.
  Some people do not understand that the Holy Quran
does not contain all the knowledge of the Universe,
other wise it would be more than a million books.
The Holy Quran is the KEY to all the knowledge
of the Universe! 
  You can learn to use this key under the guidance
of a teacher. 
  When the Wahabis came to power, they tried to
destroy this connection. In the Wahabi system
there are no wali's or saints. The Wahabis
discarded all the knowledge carried on by
the wali's and the saints, and now you have to
believe in a guy sitting in an office getting
a monthly salary to interpret the Quran and
the Hadith. 

                          Your servant
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Nabeel Ghuzlaan)
Subject: Re: WHY ARGUE ON KHATAM AL NABAYYIN ?
Keywords: Ahmadiyya Islam
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 01:19:53 GMT

nr503637@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Nabeel Ahmad Rana) writes:

>Dear Netters:

>All those Ahmadi/non-Ahmadi Muslims who are debating on Khatum al
>Nabiyyin are requested to stop because we all are in agreement to that.

>All of us, who are Muslims agree to the fact that a Prophet/Massenger
>has appeared or would appear in the later days! So there is no point
>argue on Khatam? Everybody, agrees that the Messiah and Mahdi would
>appear. The Ahmadi Muslims are saying, HE HAS APPEARED, that is the
>difference. The argument should not be whether he can or cannot appear?

>Here, I think I close the debate on Khatum-e-Nabuwat, by giving the
>Ahmadi Muslims a victory, because no body can deny the fact that the
>Messiah and Mahdi shall appear. You can not say that there is absolutely
>no prophet after Muhammad (PBUH) and still say that the Messiah and
>Mahdi shall appear??

   First, Mahdi has nothing to do with prophethood. Second, we agree that
Jesus Christ (son of) Mary Imran will appear later. We agree that he won't
change/modify anything of Islam, so he won't bear new law. Therefore, if he
still held his position as a prophet, it does not matter as he was sent
BEFORE the Prophet, not after him. I want to draw the attention to the
Hadith, "You are to me like Aaron to Moses, but there will be no prophets
after me." Aaron died before Moses as all historians agree, so why did the
Prophet say there would be no prophets after him in that CONTEXT? Because
Aaron was sent after Moses in answer of his request, "I am weak and have a
problem with my tongue so send my brother with me."

   Does this obliterate your victory? I hope so, good luck.

**Nabeel
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: mirza@sce.carleton.ca (Murad A. Mirza)
Subject: Afghanistan back under the belt, New Afghanistan (Bosnia)
Keywords: bosnia
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 18:26:55 GMT

assalam alaikum

It is a day for thanking Allah. HIS bounties are unlimited, but the
lesson learned is for muslims to sober up (remember Jang'e'Uhud).  
Bosnia is now becoming the new Afghanistan, same stories of crimes
against humanity are being repeated there, and this time it is the
boundry of Europe where this is taking place.

Allah is all powerful and mighty, muslims are being challanged to think
and think deeply about the happenings around them, Allah is challanging
the Ahle Ilm, Oulil Albab, and the TataFakkaroon to wake up from the
deep slumber.
 
Inshallah Allah permitting the victory will be sealed and may Allah
give Afghans the guidance to sit together and form one government.

Murad [ partly Afghan ] Mirza.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: mirza@sce.carleton.ca (Murad A. Mirza)
Subject: Human Concern Int'l (Relief Agency)
Keywords: relief
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 14:28:43 GMT

assalam alaikum

Persons reading this posting can further this cause by passing the address
to friends and relatives.

	Human Concern International
	POBox 3984, Station C
	Ottawa, Ontario K1Y 4P2
	Canada.
	
	Phone: (613) 234-4585
	Fax: (613) 234-4775

	Regional offices in: Lebanon and Pakistan.
	Charitable Registration Number: 0576488-09
	(this number is for use in Tax Deductions)

The organization as you note is located in Ottawa (Capital of Canada).  This
gives it a good position to get Matching Funds from the Canadian Govt. 

HCI helps mostly women and children in form of child sponsorship programs,
mother child care centers, clinics/hospitals, education, relief work,
small public projects, and many more programs of charity and help.

The list of countries benifiting from these programs includes Afghanistan 
(refugee/child/widows/disabled), Lebanon (mostly orphaned children), Bangladesh
(flood victims/needy), Somalia, victims of Gulf war especially the children
who are currently dying of hunger.

Eid'e'Baqara is around the corner. So, if you can please do donate before Eid.
If you have any questions please contact the above address.

Murad Mirza.




Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: aamir@IASTATE.EDU (Mohammad Asif)
Subject: Asian Development Bank
Keywords: Report.
Reply-To: aamir@IASTATE.EDU (Mohammad Asif)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 00:53:07 GMT

I am looking for the article posted a couple of days back giving statistics
issued by the Asian Development Bank giving figures as to GDP, inflation rates
etc.
Thanks.