HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Radio stations in Quebec, Western Canada
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:32:57 GMT
Organization: McGill University

In article <1368@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca> hlynka@server.uwindsor.ca (Myron Hlynka) writes:
>In article <BsstLv.9G6@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) writes:
>
>>I think the coverage of FM stations and the availability of Anglos AM
>>signals almost every where should be taken into account.  In western
>>provinces, SRC has a few clear channels, but is it enough for a complete
>>coverage?
>
>RC certainly covers the big cities, which hold the vast majority of
>the population.
>
Radio-Canada also provides extensive coverage outside the big cities,
not by having 50 kW clear-channel AM stations, but by having a
dense network of low-power repeater stations, mostly on FM.

>But having Federally funded French language stations in cities like
>Winnipeg or Edmonton is one of my major complaints about Canada.
>The Ukrainian Canadian and German Canadian populations in Winnipeg
>or Edmonton (more generally in Manitoba or Alberta) are far larger
>than the French population. But tax dollars from ALL Canadians are
>used to fund French language stations. Where is the Federal funding
>for Ukrainian language stations? Or German language stations?
>
I don't see why you are looking at this in a purely local or
provincial context.  CBC and SRC are not just a chain of local
stations, they are *national networks*.  And the English and
French-speaking populations are *far* larger than for any other
language, on the pan-Canadian scale.

I think having French radio and TV across Canada is a tremendous
asset.  I learned a vast amount about the French language and
French Canada by listening to CJBC and CBLFT from Toronto before
I moved to Quebec.

>This inequitable use of funds from ALL Canadian taxpayers to fund
>only two langauge groups is GROSS DISCRIMINATION.
>
>Ah yes. I forgot. Pierre Trudeau and Brian Mulroney and their
>Bilingualism laws state that FRENCH and ENGLISH are the MASTER
>languages and all others are INFERIOR.
>
Your choice of vocabulary is designed to provoke a negative
reaction, but aside from that point, I'll agree with you.  English
and French have a status different from that of other languages.
The historical and demographic reasons why this is so seem pretty
obvious to me.  Where's your problem?

>Now it makes sense that the French population, though considerably
>smaller than the Ukrainian Canadian population, should get a
>CBC (Radio Canada) Radio Station and TV station.
>
Not to belabour the point, but again, on the national level,
the population of French-speakers is far greater than that of
Ukrainian-speakers.

Tom Box
CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: mwh@socrates.umd.edu (Michael Hrybyk)
Subject: Re: Canadian taxes and govt debt (was: Re: Income tax rate in Canada)
Organization: University of Maryland University College
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:27:24 GMT

I wrote:

>>1. The marginal rate for those earning < 60k US is 48% in MD, as cited
>>   above and confirmed by my experience here (includes SS tax).
>>2. The marginal rate for those earning < 70k CDN is 46% in BC, according
>>   to Coopers and Lybrand. This includes provincial taxes, surtaxes, ...
>>   One must add 2.1% Canada pension and ~1% for UIC, summing to 49%.

durham@mpr.ca (Paul Durham) responded:

>Wrong. You have already hit the maximum contribution level for CPP and UIC
>long before you got to the 46% marginal rate.

Then, happily, I am overstating the CDN case. Thanks for pointing out
that the CPP/UIC cutoff point is at a lower income level.

>>Note that various deductions and credits are not considered in the above.
>>Also note, for you rich capitalists out there, that capital gains in
>>Canada are taxed as ordinary income.

>Wrong. There is a lifetime capital gains exemption of $100,000. After this
>is used up, capital gains are multiplied by 2/3 and _then_ added to the
>income.

Yes, I was a bit extreme in my presentation, as the info I looked at
clearly states this fact. Still, the marginal capital gains rate for the
wealthy CDN investor looks higher than in the US.
From: CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: We are all foreigners, save the NATIVE Aboriginal Canadians!
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:55:08 GMT
Organization: McGill University

In article <BtABHM.FHq@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> robert@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Robert Meunier) writes:
>In article wL7qPB2w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca, yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee) writes:
>>
>>Let's admit it,  we are ALL foreigners here, except the Aboriginals.
>
>Correction. Whe are all foreigner including Aboriginal which came from
>Asia. Only time separate us.

Another correction.  The aboriginals here now did not come from Asia.
Their ancestors did.  There's a *big* difference.  Saying "I have
more rights than you, because my ancestors have been here longer,"
is stupid.  (Not a flame -- I'm not accusing you of saying this.
But a lot of people seem to be saying it.)
>
Tom Box
CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
From: clamen@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Subject: Re: "F/E" versus "Bienvenue/Welcome": Update
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
	<CLAMEN.92Aug16082311@BYRON.SP.CS.CMU.EDU>
	<1992Aug16.124308.7895@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 03:28:55 GMT
X-Posted-From: byron.sp.cs.cmu.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Aug16.124308.7895@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> ematias@dgp.toronto.edu (Edgar Matias) writes:

   In article <1992Aug12.231921.15668@spxtech.qc.ca> steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter
   ) writes:

	New Update: Quebec Gov.'s "Welcome" message to tourists is in
	no less than 9 languages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

	Harry Schick (Viennese pastry shop in Pt. Claire) is being
	prosecuted for having multilingual "Welcome" on his windows.

	Apparently, so long as the "principle" message is in French
	only, you can put whatever you like!

   This is *very* interesting.  So, if I understand correctly, it would be
   *legal* to have a sign that said (in French) in BIG letters "F*CK THE 
   LANGUAGE LAWS" with the word "welcome" (in many languages) written
   in _small_ letters underneath?

   Hm...  Maybe it's a good thing I don't live in Quebec...  ;-)

Actually, "F*UCK THE LANGUAGE LAWS" is political, not commercial
speech, and could be in whatever language you want.  The so-called
"sign laws" only apply to commercial signs.

Private citizens can put whatever they want on their signs.




--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 268 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890, USA
From: thood@corvus.matrox.com (Thomas Hood)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: god save your queen
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:31:50 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: Matrox Ltd.

GOGOLEKP@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Peter Gogolek) writes:

>In article <1992Aug19.160713.26192@pandora.matrox.com>, thood@corvus.matrox.com
>(Thomas Hood) says:
>>Peter Gogolek <GOGOLEKP@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>>>Can you imagine a case where the Canadian monarch acts contrary to
>>>the wishes of the government of the day or equivalently refuses to
>>>carry out the wishes of the government of the day?
>>Yes.
>Care to provide details?

Not really.  Who can predict what unusual situations will arise,
requiring the intervention of the head of state?

--
Thomas Hood                                                    thood@matrox.com
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: clamen@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Subject: Re: Radio stations in Quebec, Western Canada
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
	<tech.713654185@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca>
	<1371@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca>
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:03:23 GMT
X-Posted-From: byron.sp.cs.cmu.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1371@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca> hlynka@server.uwindsor.ca (Myron Hlynka) writes:

   In response to Myron Hlynka's comments on the unfairness of the 
   federal government in funding French radio in Winnipeg and Edmonton
   and providing no funding for the larger Ukrainian Canadian and
   German Canadian communities, 
   (Richard Loken) writes:

   >
   >Cry me a river.  French and English are official languages, Ukrainian and
   >German are not.  The various levels of government spend much too much money
   >funding every homesick ethnic splinter in existence already.  
   >We need federally funded ethnic radio stations like we need small pox.
   >
   >You want to listen to German broadcasting then YOU can pay for it.  
   >And no, I am not English or French but my forefathers came here to 
   >be Canadian not whatever it was that they were before they got here. If 
   >the home country was so great they would have stayed there.
   >

   I think you misunderstood me. I was not advocating federal funding of 
   Ukrainian langauge and German language radio and TV. I think that the 
   Federal government should not fund French language radio in Winnipeg
   and Edmonton considering how small an audience is there for the 
   programming and considering how unfair it is to the other ethnic
   groups.

   You want French langauage in Edmonton. If you want French language
   radio and TV in Edmonton, then YOU can pay for it. 

   When my forefathers came to Canada, it was not officially bilingual.

When your forefathers came to Canada, English and French were official
languages in the Parliament and in Federal courts.

   In fact, I must have missed the referendum that made Canada bilingual,
   with French and English as first class and everyone else as 
   second class. What year was that referendum again??

Sorry, but I am going to yell here.

WHEN MANITOBA WAS CREATED (1870), IT WAS OFFICIALLY BILINGUAL.  

I'm very sorry.  I will try not to do that again.

The Manitoba provincial government unconstitutionally removed the
bilingualism provision.  In the early 1980s (I cannot remember the
year), the Supreme Court of Canada ruled (the appeal case had to do
with someone receiving a unilingual parking ticket, I believe) that
Manitoba had been illegally passing legislation all those years, since
they had not been published in both official languages.

--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 268 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890, USA
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: richard@csi.on.ca (Richard Martin)
Subject: Re: Official languages (was Re: Radio stations...)
Organization: Carp Systems International, Kanata, ON
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:08:09 GMT

In article <14AUG92.10646917.0069@VM1.MCGILL.CA> CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94000) writes:
>What solution are you proposing?  That there should be one official
>language?  Why would this be any less "discriminatory" against
>all the non-official languages?  Or do you want the federal
>government to use every language spoken in Canada?  That'd be
>less discriminatory, but hardly practical.
I have a solution!
Let the only official language of Canada be something that only a
few people have any vested interest in--Latin, or ancient Greek.
Why not be the first nation in the world to adopt Esperanto as
its official language?
Shadum ergo sum!
Richard. =)
-- 
Richard Martin               	richard@csi.on.ca
Sorry, no NeXTmail. <sniff> :(
"Don't Panic Yet!  Things are about to get much worse!"
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Absolute Madness... Naturally.
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 21:28:59 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.200901.20164@bcrka451.bnr.ca> nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau) writes:
>Hmm.  Denis and Gerald are both complaining loudly about this deal.
>Maybe it does strike the right balance between the conflicting
>claims?  (After all, a deal that would satisfy one would be totally
>unacceptable to the other.)
>

This is not true...I could live with Senate abolition, and have argued
for an equitable Senate rather than an equal one for over a year now.
I support the essence of official bilingualism in the federal government
and its institutions.

This deal abandons representation by population...that should concern
you...I wonder what the position of most Canadians would be if
White South Africans and Ingatha Zulus asked for fixed representation
for perpetuity any new legislature in South Africa, based on today's
population figures.  The ANC and Mandela would go apoplectic and
do with such proposals.

I'm more than willing to give Quebec 20% (it now will have to be at
least 25%) of a Senate...I am not willing to abandon the most
fundamental of democratic principles, that of representation by
population.

The abolition of the Senate is now the preferable option since to
advocate a Senate where Quebec has 25% and Ontario would have to
have 25% is rather pointless...it is not worth the money.

Gerald

Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins)
Subject: Re: We are all foreigners, save the NATIVE Aboriginal Canadians!!
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 20:45:55 GMT

In article <wL7qPB2w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee) writes:
>Let's admit it,  we are ALL foreigners here, except the Aboriginals.

Let's not.

I would hesitate to confuse the Original peoples who are all dead, with
their descendants (the Aboriginals) who are no more Native than any other
person born here, and hopefully no more equal that any citizen native-born
or immigrant.

Frank.

Newsgroups: can.politics
From: clamen@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Subject: Re: Radio stations in Quebec, Western Canada
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
	<1368@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca>
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 01:20:41 GMT
X-Posted-From: byron.sp.cs.cmu.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1368@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca> hlynka@server.uwindsor.ca (Myron Hlynka) writes:


   >I think the coverage of FM stations and the availability of Anglos AM
   >signals almost every where should be taken into account.  In western
   >provinces, SRC has a few clear channels, but is it enough for a complete
   >coverage?


   RC certainly covers the big cities, which hold the vast majority of 
   the population. 

   But having Federally funded French language stations in cities like 
   Winnipeg or Edmonton is one of my major complaints about Canada.
   The Ukrainian Canadian and German Canadian populations in Winnipeg
   or Edmonton (more generally in Manitoba or Alberta) are far larger
   than the French population. But tax dollars from ALL Canadians are
   used to fund French language stations. Where is the Federal funding
   for Ukrainian language stations? Or German language stations? 

Although allocation of radio spectrum is currently an exclusively
federal power, that might be changed soon.  In any case, there is
probably nothing unconstitional with Manitoba setting up
provincially-subsidized German and Ukrainian radio networks.  Quebec
and Ontario, for instance, have provincially funded French language
networks.
--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 268 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890, USA
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: pierre@chaos.phys.ualberta.ca (Pierre Rouleau)
Subject: Re: Criticizing "My Canada includes Quebec"
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 00:38:10 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.224135.19029@pandora.matrox.com>
thood@corvus.matrox.com (Thomas Hood) writes:

> As for "doing something to save Canada," I am hereby
> announcing my candidacy for the position of King of
> Canada.  On guard, Rheal and  Peter!

SAY WHAT ! ?  none of you guys are qualifed for this;
who do you think you are ?  The idea is to replace
Q. E-II by another QUEEN ...
                   ^^^^^
I propose Mitsou.

Pierre R.  :-)



Newsgroups: can.politics
From: jnetto@bnr.ca (John Netto)
Subject: Re: Radio stations in Quebec: Data
Reply-To: jnetto@bnr.ca (John Netto)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Distribution: can
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 16:04:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.231021.15648@spxtech.qc.ca>, steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter) writes:
|> From article <BsstLv.9G6@ireq.hydro.qc.ca>, by beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
|>  Denis Beauregard wrote, following my posting of QC radio station data:-
|> 
|>  [stuff deleted]...
|>  
|>   Perhaps people who think the same way as Denis should consider having
|>   legislation introduced to prevent francophones and immigrants from
|>   listening to English radio!???
|> 
|>   Why not? - They have legislation banning English commercial signs
|>   already and there is legislation in place to prevent francophones
|>   and immigrants from sending their children to English schools 
|>   (even if they are English!) >:-( !!!!!!!
|> 
|> 
|> -- 
|>   ///==================================================================\\\
|>   ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
|>   ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
|>   |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||

  You are absolutely right about demographics, # of stations, etc. This presents
  a problem to the 'French Face' of Montreal <-- the main problem to nationalists.

  At the present time, COMMUNICATIONS is a Federal jurisdiction. The Qc
  government has been negotiating with the Feds to have it turned over to them.
  Till now, the Feds have been unwilling. I remember that COMMUNICATIONS was a
  'request' in the Qc gov't Belanger-Campeau report on the constitution; ie powers
  that Qc should have... someone care to verify this ?
 
  Steve, for now, they can't pass legislation worth the paper it's written on;
  not to say that it would happen of course - I don't want to start a flame war..
  
  Cheers,
 
  John
Xref: sparky can.politics:6111 soc.culture.canada:5977
From: robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins)
Subject: Re: Canadian Collectivism
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Distribution: can
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 13:33:10 GMT

In article <aidler.713741766@sanjuan> aidler@sanjuan.UVic.CA (E Alan Idler) writes:
>
>While working collectively towards any beneficial goal is a basic 
>human right I wouldn't want to deny anyone, I object that the 
>organizational efforts of many of these groups are funded through 
>the public purse.
>The Reform Party is correct that people should sustain these causes 
>through their own efforts.


And herein lies the danger. The Reform Party is taking advantage of
a malaise that has overcome us. It is quite true that this cult
of collectivism (or "new sovereignty") is damaging. Why oh why is it
only a reactionary organization like the RP that is pointing this out? 

What has happened to the left? 

My view is that the Left has betrayed the very principles that 
were its foundation: Equality, fraternity, liberty.
The Right is now moving into the vacuum.
This is potentially a very dangerous period. Those that simply claim
that the Reform Party program is "racist" are missing the point.
Yes there is a substantial amount of bigotry within the RP (and within
all the political parties for that matter). The RP, however, has an
economic agenda that is desires to implement, after winning populist
support based on its "no special privileges" agenda.
We must be very cautious here, it seems to me. We should be also insisting
on equal rights for all, no special rights for anyone. That doesn't mean
that we need adopt the rightwing "individualistic" economic 
agenda (ie laissez faire capitalism) of the Reformists.

Frank.
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: ematias@dgp.toronto.edu (Edgar Matias)
Subject: Re: "F/E" versus "Bienvenue/Welcome": Update
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Date: 16 Aug 92 16:43:08 GMT


In article <1992Aug12.231921.15668@spxtech.qc.ca> steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter
) writes:
 
     New Update: Quebec Gov.'s "Welcome" message to tourists is in
     no less than 9 languages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
     Harry Schick (Viennese pastry shop in Pt. Claire) is being
     prosecuted for having multilingual "Welcome" on his windows.
 
     Apparently, so long as the "principle" message is in French
     only, you can put whatever you like!

This is *very* interesting.  So, if I understand correctly, it would be
*legal* to have a sign that said (in French) in BIG letters "F*CK THE 
LANGUAGE LAWS" with the word "welcome" (in many languages) written in _small_
letters underneath?

Hm...  Maybe it's a good thing I don't live in Quebec...  ;-)

Edgar
Xref: sparky can.politics:6140 soc.culture.canada:6015
From: beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard)
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Opinions about recent agreement (was Re: Absolute Madness... Naturally.)
Date: 22 Aug 92 23:25:57 GMT
Organization: Institut de recherche d'Hydro-Quebec, Varennes, Canada

If someone what to see another opinion (still very close to mine), just
read this Saturday edition of La Presse.  La Presse is known as a 
federalist newspaper, so that you will agree it is objective when
talking against the aforesaid agreement.

Some extracts :
(front page) : Pouvoirs : Quebec reste sur son appetit (Powers : Quebec
still get nothing more).  

Summary : the agreement is far under the Allaire report expectations and
Quebec government objectives.

Page A13 : Une entente "catastrophique" sur le Senat (a very bad agreement
about the Senate).
Extracts from an interview with the constitutionalist Daniel Turp.
Among other things, he said that it is probable that there will be
more francophones senators from outside of Quebec than in Quebec
(which would have 5 if one is kept for an anglophone). 

Page B3 : Un Senat insatisfaisant (a non-satisfying Senate)
extract : the temporary agreement is more of (Bourassa) style : it is
an improvised compromise (un compromis improvise), made with a variety
of different features arbitrarily linked together, a structure without
internal logic, not-rational and complicated, enough fuzzy (embrouille)
so that nobody could made a clear idea, cleared from anything that
could lead to an immediate mobilisation.

And this is from a federalist newspaper!

-- 
  \_\    Denis Beauregard  *  internet:beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
 /   \   Genealogiste officiel : Beauregard/Jarret/Jarest/Vincent
J   __>  Vient de paraitre : Andre Jarret et ses Ancetres
\_.-===  En vente par l'auteur                      Opinions ? Et pis non !
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada