HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: hinges
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 19:57:17 GMT

In article <66629@cup.portal.com> sbixby@cup.portal.com (Steven W Bixby) writes:
>>    Questions: The GL was done with solid red, vs translucent red on
>>the Zephyr. Do the translucent colors let go of their backing more easily
>>than the solids?

>YES!  YES!  This stuff definitely 'delaminates' quite easily.  I like 
>transparent finishes, but I'll never use it on high-powered planes unless
>it's bordered by solid colors.  My experience with transparent monokote
>sez it will eventually fall apart around the corners.  No amount of fidgeting
>with the heat or method will prevent or stop it.

Combat fliers use strips of FasCal on the edges if they use a 
covering that tends to come off (eg. Seal Lamin or no-glue My-
lar). The FasCal will NOT let go. It does have to be ironed down 
even though it is "pre-sticky". It is also trasparent and very 
clear so it should be pretty invisible when used to edge Monokote.










-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
From: earl@trsvax.tandy.com
Date: 25 Sep 92 17:17 CDT
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: Putting together a heli FAQ; sugges
Message-ID: <1195667311@trsvax>
From: soc1070                         
Subject: Re: NARAM SUMMARY????
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Minnesota CIS
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 14:54:00 GMT

In article <6774@transfer.stratus.com>, cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes...
>In article <25SEP199212385839@vx.cis.umn.edu>, soc1070 writes:
> 
>> The cost of larger-than-D composite reloads is not much more than an
>> Estes BP D ($6.?? for 3). So maybe those trying to keep costs down opt for
>> reloads (if available), or have a reload-only event so all participants 
>> are handicapped with the casing.
> 
>You DO realize that reloads are not contest certified?

Ok. Reloads were a poor choice for an example. I am not a avid competitor
(but plan on getting more into it next year) and was not aware reloads
were not contest certified. However, they probably will be at some
point.(?) [Help me on this one - are they likey NOT to be contest 
certified?]

>> My point is that the cost of competiting to participants should not
>> determine the events.
> 
>Tell the event management.

To further explain, the competitors will spend what they feel is necessary
to be in whatever position they want at the end of the event. If someone
has made up their mind to win, they will spend what they can afford to 
make an effort to achieve that goal. Regardless of the nature of the event.

Don't try to make competition *affordable*; competition is to WIN! A person
can sport fly to have fun (not that competition isn't fun, but its still
competition...)

>> Have an F payload altitude - if no one flys, drop
>> it. If people want to fly, they'll invest $4 in a motor.
> 
>I don't understand how this argument applies to a NARAM.  It's a little
>late to "drop it" on the day no one showed up to fly it.
>-- 
> 
>cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com

I mean that determining events needs to be an ongoing process of change
that also reflects the current state of the hobby. Sure, have the
standard battery of A-C PD, BG, EL, Altitude, etc. But throw in one or
two new things. If they work, try 'em again next year. If they don't,
try something different. 

Tim Harincar			"Always listen to experts.			
Central Minnesota 		They'll tell you what can't
Association of Rocketry		be done and why. Then do it."
soc1070@vx.acs.umn.edu			-Lazarus Long
From: george@agora.rain.com (George Rachor)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Prang Film Update
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:00:51 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Open Communications Forum

hrbob@ixstar.ih.att.com (R.E. Wiersbe) writes:

>After numerous attempts to copy "The Prang Film" it has become obvious that
>my equipment (and a couple of other people's too) just won't cut it. Bob Kaplow
>tells me the tape works fine on his machine, I can't get it to stop rolling
>and jumping on the machines I tried. When I find the time I'll go to Bob's and
>try it there, and I'll see if I can find a video place that could do it cheap.
>(I work with switching systems, not video equipment - which is part of the 
>reason this is taking so long.)

>Bob Wiersbe 	NAR# 44588	hrbob@ihlpb.att.com

Thanks for keeping us informed!  I was wondering how that was going.
From: iqv@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: newbie q's
Date: 26 Sep 92 21:38:17 EDT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University

I just re-entered the hobby about 2 months ago, from a rather long hiatus.
I've been building estes rockets (I hope that doesn't make me the subject of
ridicule), and I have several questions.
   1)  I can get fins pretty straight, but does anyone have any really good
ways to align them really well (and spaced well)
   2)  Which multi-stage rockets actually seperate mid-flight?  I got the
mini-cobra, and I'm pretty sure that it doesn't.
   3)  When you design a rocket, how can you tell whether or not it is balanced
before you fly it?
for stable flight.
   4)  Estes charges a lot for their parts.  What ways can you homebuild
rocPlease E-mail responses
          				David Sebba
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: hrbob@ixstar.ih.att.com (R.E. Wiersbe)
Subject: Re: NARAM SUMMARY????
Summary: Summary?? I never saw one!
Originator: news@cbnewsb.cb.att.com
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 21:06:56 GMT

With all the discussions about which events should or should not be run, how
much it will cost, the reload debate, etc, I never saw anyone post a summary
of NARAM from this year. Did anyone go, or should I wait for the next couple 
of AmSpam's to read about it? 

I'm getting the impression that this year was ho-hum, even the guys who went
from our club didn't have much to say. The only things I heard about were the
Great Estes Prang and some insanity about scaring turtles to death. Oh yeah,
they also said it was hot.

Bob Wiersbe	NAR# 44588	hrbob@ihlpb.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: <Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu>  (Roger Wilfong)
Subject: Re: parachute 101
Organization: UofM Hospitals
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 12:48:00 GMT

In Article <28SEP199209401461@vx.cis.umn.edu> "soc1070                         " says:
> In article <1992Sep28.045902.10967@cs.umb.edu>, mrubin@ra.cs.umb.edu (Mark Rubin) writes...
> > ...
> >with the way the instructs told of attaching the shroud line to the chute.
> > 
> >Here's a stupid diagram of the way it tells ya:
> > 
> >		1          2
> >	       ______________
> >	      /	x	   x \
> >	     /		      \
> >	 3  / x		     x \ 4
> >	    \		       /
> >	     \  x	   x  /
> >	   5  \______________/  6
> > 
> > 
> >Connect:  1 -> 2
> >	  3 -> 5
> >	  4 -> 6
> > 
> >The lines do not line up with each other. If you put the 3 -> 5 and 4 -> 6
> >...
I always do:
   1 -> 6
   2 -> 5
   3 -> 4
under the unconfirmed belief that it distributes the stress better.  Of 
course if you tie them all together in a knot, what difference does it make.
 
> 
> Making your oun parachutes is pretty easy. Start with the desired material
> ...
> XACTO KNIFE cut along the outside of the template.
> 
An even easier way is to fold the material in half, in half again, and once
more, so that you have a 1/8 wedge.  Cut through all eight layers at a 
distance 1/2 of the desired diameter from the point, and you get an eigth 
sided chute.
> Make shrouds from a heavy guage thread - cut three equal lengths twice
> as long as the diameter of the chute and connect the ends to corner
> points adjacent to each other.
> 
Cut the individual shrouds to 3 time the diameter of the chute.  Use 3M 
MagicMending tape or mylar trim Monocoat for the attachment.
> >Any help would be greatly appreciated along with any tips on judging
> >the wind and how far the rocket should be angled into it - as well
> >as predicting where the rocket may land.
> >
> I'll leave that one for another..
> 
I've never been good at that one.  Some times I luck out and get it right, 
more often I have a long walk, but I need the execsise any way.
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Cost of Competition (was NARAM SUMMARY????)
Date: 1 Oct 92 18:52:23 GMT
Reply-To: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd.

In article <1992Sep28.225911.20271@rsd0.rsd.dl.nec.com> buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott) writes:
>|> <comments about choice of events potentially being based on cost
>|>  considerations deleted>
>It was good thinking on the part of the CD and contest committee
>for the next NARAM to try to ensure inexpensive events were available.  That
>wasn't my opinion at first, but it is now, and I think it is the right way
>to approach an event like a NARAM.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but compared to the cost of flying/driving
across country, staying in a big hotel for a week (even at group rates),
eating resturaunt food and other miscelaneous travel expenses, worrying
about the difference in the cost of motors seems trivial.

The point is, that to anyone who can afford dropping $2-3K on a week of
rocket flying, the difference between a $1 motor and a $4 motor is
lost in the noise. Unless you're going to be making *hundreds* of BP
flights or *dozens* of HP flights, the difference just won't be significant.

- Jack

=============================================================================
||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd.                 jack@rml.com        ||
||Livermore, CA		           NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^        ||
||(510) 455-1143	            (old ones will still work)             ||
||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
||  "I, like all men, have never grown up. Other men lie and say they      ||
||    have. I refuse to lie. I try to be a creative child, using my        ||
||    immaturity in such ways as benefit my society rather than harm it."  ||
||                           - Ray Bradbury, _Yestermorrow_                ||
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: dlw@engr.ucf.edu (Chip Wuerz)
Subject: Re: Rogers Aeroscience Programs?
Summary: Altitude perdiction programs
Organization: engineering, University of Central Florida, Orlando
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 03:41:57 GMT

I currently have and use Rogers Aeroscience programs (RASP).  I really 
like the package.  Alt4 is a very good altitude simulator for flights under
mach speeds.  It also works for supersonic flights, but not as well.

The programs are a little optimistic because they assume very little 
drag due to such things as protruding epoxy/glue joints and the like.
However, the altitude prediction simulations have been used to check optically 
tracked flights and have produced very close results.

The package has several menue driven programs which includes CD2 (a CD 
program), Alt4 (altitude prediction program), motor (contains motor 
thrust curves), CP (a CP program).  It also includes a plotting
package for CD, altitude and mach number.  The plotting package
has an HP LaserJet printer option to produce pretty plots.

CD2 is a package which takes rocket parameters to produce a CD file
good to mach 5.  This file is to be used by alt4.

Motor is a menue driven program which accesses the provided list of
motor thrust curves.  You can also input other motor curves.

Alt4 is the main simulator.  It takes a CD file (or hard number), 
motor file, weight, length, diameter, fin configuration and other info..
After putting in all the numbers Alt4 produces the velocity, altitude,
coast time, CD, and mach numbers for the whole flight.

I use RASP for just about every flight I make.  It is very handy in
giving the user very important flight information.


Chip Wuerz
From: jas@tellabs.com (John Schwarz)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: danville
Date: 29 Sep 92 13:43:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: tellab5.1992Sep29.134308.6776
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tellabs, Inc., Lisle, IL
Originator: jas@nu1


hi netters
	anyone out there going to the fall danville,ill. launch?

	I plan on attempting to get certified/comfirmed.

	I have never been there, so any comments, sugestions
	ect.. would be appreciated.

nar # 38355sr
TRA # in the mail

jas
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: NARAM SUMMARY????
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:49:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvaac.1992Sep30.184911.23707
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
: In article <1992Sep29.164831.9264@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>, billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
: > cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
: > : (on many reloads, you
: > : have to insert the nozzle over the tail of the igniter, because the
: > : head won't fit through).
: > 
: > If that is a problem, then I would manufacture my own igniters - unless
: > it is prohibited by NAR rules. I prefer using thermalite - it seems to
: > be more reliable than Copperheads, which are better than Estes and similar
: > igniters.
: 
: I'm not sure how manufacturing your own igniters addresses the topic of
: reload authentication at check-in.  You're certainly not suggesting that
: all competitors be forced to manufacture their own igniters.

No. Only that it was a way to make an igniter that, for me at least, is
far easier to insert through the nozzle than a Copperhead.  I have not
used anything smaller than an F reloadable - so my experience may not be
applicable. 

I was not addressing reload authentication, just the comment about the
igniters.

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: jsivier@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jonathon Sivier )
Subject: Re: Wadding
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 18:32:08 GMT

hack@arabia.uucp (Edmund Hack) writes:

>In all the recent discussion on baffles for ejection charge protection,
>a passing mention was made of using cellulose insulation instead of the
>usual TP wadding, lettuce leaves or fiberglass.  I assume that this is
>just the stuff available in bags at Home Depot/Builder's Square that
>looks like partially digested and dried newspaper?  I'm building my
>first HP rocket (LOC Graduator) and any light and low cost replacement
>for Estes/Quest TP is attractive.

   I've been using the cellulose insulation as wadding for some time now and
it works fine.  You can get it on sale at a building supply store for something
like $2.50 for a cubic yard, a lifetime supply even for big rockets.

Jonathan

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |  Secretary, Central Illinois Aerospace |
|  jsivier@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu      |  NAR #56437                            |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |  Tripoli #1906
|  Beckman Institute             |  Home Address:                         |
|  405 N. Mathews                |    5 The Summit                        |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |    Champaign, IL 61820                 |
|  217/244-1923                  |    217/359-8225                        |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: what are payloads for?
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: rec
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:41:54 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.204120.15104@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> iqv@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:

>What do people do with a payload, besides cameras?  Are there any cool things
>to send up, or what?

Eggs..



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Working SRB's - Take 2
Keywords: SRB's, boosters
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:30:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.BvCLv0.AAr
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1992Sep18.144734.390@HQ.Ileaf.COM> hal@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Hal Wadleigh) writes:

>It was a very impressive demo rocket--especially
>with magenta tempura in the chutes for good smoke puffs.
              ^^^^^^^

I don't get it.. deep fried beets hanging from a parachute?  9-)





-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: Guidance - rc aircraft pains
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Ottawa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 19:40:17 GMT

In article <19921005112939.Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu> Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu writes:
>In Article <1992Oct5.135918.527@HQ.Ileaf.COM> "hal@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Hal Wadleigh)" says:
>> What you really need is not a tracking rocket, but a good 12-guage skeet gun.`

This was one of the truly great moments in the old series, Magnum P.I.
The unflappable Higgins had built a scale Spitfire, and Magnum was
getting EXTREMELY annoyed because it was disturbing his sleep.  So he
borrowed a shotgun, and we have the scene:

Higgins is flying the plane along.  Suddenly, there's a loud Bang!,
and the plane isn't there anymore.  He looks back, and sees Magnum, a
smoking shotgun in hand, with an evil grin on his face.

Definitely an application of "appropriate technology."  Why spend
$5,000 developing a small tracking missile when a $150 shotgun will do
the job FAR more effectively?

However, building a guidance system is of interest for many other
better reasons.

-- 
Christopher Browne
cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca
University of Ottawa
Master of System Science Program
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: NARAM SUMMARY????
Date: 29 Sep 92 02:24:49 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Sep28.225911.20271@rsd0.rsd.dl.nec.com>, buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott) writes:
> I've noticed one thing about getting into high power this past year...it blinds
> you to cost considerations. 

> Reading the several postings in this thread has reminded me that not everybody
> can afford to spend (potentially) hundreds of dollars for a weekend of 
> flying. 

Yeah, sometimes just to GET THERE!

Trustees are doubly stupid.  They spend hundreds of dollars to get there
for a weekend of meetings and NO FLYING!  Of course, this year, we fixed 
that...
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: msjohnso@donald.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Mark Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Is There a List of Records Available?
Keywords: model rocketry competition
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:44:25 GMT
Reply-To: msjohnso@donald.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Mark Johnson)
Organization: NCR Corporation Wichita, KS

In article <1992Sep29.010506.7331@ennews.eas.asu.edu> elder@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Greg Elder) writes:
>Is there a list of records for model rocketry competition events
>available anywhere (perhaps from NARTS)?  I'd be interested in something
>of the following form:

The list is maintained by the NAR's Records Subcommittee. The last time the
list was published in _American Spacemodeling_ was about two years ago; a
more current list may be available on CompuServe Modelnet. I'll check there
and see; if I find a reasonably current records list. 

Mark Johnson
American Spacemodeling Contest & Events Editor
-- 
Mark Johnson                          USnail: NCR Peripheral Products Division
E-mail:  Mark.Johnson@WichitaKS.NCR.COM       3718 N. Rock Rd.
Voice: (316) 636-8189 [V+ 654-8189]           Wichita, KS  67226
[Non-business email: 76670.1775@compuserve.com]
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: soc1070                         
Subject: Re: Drag coefficients for Estes rockets
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Minnesota CIS
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:03:00 GMT

In article <6889@transfer.stratus.com>, cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes...
>In article <salmon.717837061@cfht.hawaii.edu>, salmon@cfht.hawaii.edu (Rick Salmon) writes:
>> Does anyone have drag coefficients for Estes model rockets?  Can
>> a single coeeficent be used at all speeds, does anyone know ?

Anyone:

Didn't those grad students from MIT who wrote the book on model rocket
theory in the early 70's do wind tunnel testing on some models?

I can't remember the name of the book or authors... sorry.

Tim Harincar				Kill Your Television.			
Central Minnesota 		
Association of Rocketry		
soc1070@vx.acs.umn.edu
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Drag coefficients for Estes rockets
Date: 1 Oct 92 19:21:00 GMT
Reply-To: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd.

In article <salmon.717837061@cfht.hawaii.edu> salmon@cfht.hawaii.edu (Rick Salmon) writes:
>Does anyone have drag coefficients for Estes model rockets?  Can
>a single coeeficent be used at all speeds, does anyone know ?

Well, it changes with speed, it changes with angle of attack and it
changes with rocket configuration.

Back in a previous life, I ran an Estes Cineroc/Omega through the
low turbulence wind tunnel at U.C. Berkeley as part of my Senior Project.

A (really rough) rule of thumb is to use a Cd of .75 for a two stage 
rocket under thrust, .45 for a single stage rocket while under thrust 
and .50 for a single stage rocket under coast (the base drag increases 
when the motor quits). This all assumes a zero angle of attack. If you 
get off course it goes up incredibly fast: 1.0 at 10 deg, 3.0 at 20 deg 
and 4.0 at 25 deg for the two stage version.

The change with speed is less dramatic. The Cd actually drops slightly
with speed until you reach the critical Reynolds number for your
design (for model rockets, this is around an Re of 50,000 to 100,000). 
After that it stays relatively constant until you start bumping up 
against Mach 1 when all bets are off (along with most of your fins :-)

- Jack
From: mrubin@cs.umb.edu (Mark Rubin)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: discount rockets, etc.
Date: 3 Oct 92 21:33:37 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston

Belleville Wholesale Hobby in Illinois offers Estes products at 30% off
retail sugg. price, Custom Rockets Company at 35% off and Model Rectifier
Corp at 40% off. They have a $30 minimum after discount which can be made
up of mixed manufaturers products. If you are in the Boston area and are
interested in getting together to order because you don't want to order
$30 worth of stuff then send me e-mail. They offer COD, no credit cards,
and will ship within 24 hours if the items are in stock.

-Mark
--
==========================================================================
|| Mark Rubin		|| Don't let your schooling interfere with	||
|| mrubin@ra.cs.umb.edu	|| your education.				||
|| UMass/Boston		|| 			-Mark Twain		||
==========================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets