From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: Part of a reply to Rodney - more later re: the dark side
Keywords: way long
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 08:12:58 GMT

gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>rodney's questions about x-sexuals &c. -- ecsd's long reply
>
>Very interesting, complete, and logical.  On both your counts.
>Just one minor point to make:

>>THE OPEN AVAILABILITY OF ALL OPTIONS IS THE ONLY WAY.  <== way radical idea!!

>I have to point out that the abortion issue is often stated in a
>very simplistic and idealistic way.
>
>At the risk of pointing out the obvious, the Pro-Choice people argue that
>a woman has a right as to how to treat her own body.  This sounds right.
>The Pro-Life people argue that the child has a right to its own life.
>This sounds right as well.
>
>{ proof, assumptions, subjective, ill-will, workarounds }

My workaround like I said before is pretty easy. Let everyone do what they
feel is best, short of stopping other people from doing what those people
feel is best. Then nobody will be doing anything that damages their own
values.

But if we begin to interfere in each other's lives -- interference works
both ways, so you've got a choice, strife or peace. If my abortion in
California causes an acute moral reaction in a person in Louisiana,
my assessment is that their ego-space is just a tad too large.

Let us do as we choose, this is not an issue where either side can prove
that they are thoroughly right. And not one which can be forced upon us
for decision, either. If your beliefs come at me to injure me, I will injure
you around your beliefs {which allow you to do so}, and if that doesn't
stop you, I will injure you.

The arguments that say that since it's undecided, it should come down on the
"side of caution" in favor of the fetus - those beliefs are part and parcel
of the antiabortionist side. The antiabortionists do not admit the theoretical
basis of the other side - the pro-choice world views. So fuck them. Reason
fair or eat it. They don't play fair. And they say they don't have to. No
compromise with adults behaving like stupid children - and I *mean* stupid.
Same animal drive that lets them equate "how I feel" == "what is fact",
is the same animal drive that likes to fuck and makes babies in the absence
of birth-control, thanks to - you guessed it.

Sorry, GMS, I'm a Capricorn, and practical about it. I don't have time to
waste debating it. There are times when I feel free to indulge my ardor at
the expense of being open to rational discussion, and this is one of them.
{anticipate this offered to "other side as well"; read on.}
When it comes time to *decide*, I say - let as all do for ourselves as our
nature dictates to us as individuals. It's an arbitrary choice should we,
or should we not, have the freedom while the issue is being discussed; but
the issue is NOT symmetrical. The people who want to compel childbirth in
no way suffer direct consequences for forcing others to do so. I will not
have my rights - as *I* see them - interfered with by people who are not
*responsible* to me. Do as we say, and You pay the bill. To this I say,
get the Fuck out of my Face, I'm not your slave and I'm not trying to
enslave you. My way makes us *both* happy, as long as your happiness does
not consist in controlling my behavior. What you do in your churches I don't
CARE about, have fun. As I said, I offer a non-zero-sum game and they offer
only a zero-sum game. So I'll pick up the gun.

I don't mind offering rational discussion about it - but the opponent can't
prove anything with me; nor I them. I show over and over again it comes down
to emotional reasoning backed up by some rational thought, and ends up a
matter of belief. So if nothing else my *religion* says I have the right to
an abortion and my *god* and *bible* say so too. No, no, no, they say, the
Bible says "blah" and it also says "what the Bible says is true", so You're
Wrong. How long do you want me to argue with someone like this? Fine: you
got a closed mind, I got a closed mind. Equal rights again, thank you and
goodbye, have a nice train ride back to Indiana or wherever {that's unfair,
I know.}

It touches a nerve, GMS, because these people live in a monochromatic world.
A lot of people will have to die, before the remainder will be happy living
in one. I like people better than that. And I'd be one of the dead ones.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa