HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: clane@csws2.ic.sunysb.edu (Charles F Lane)
Subject: Re: behavior of typed constants in subroutines
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:26:56 GMT

* = deleted region
In article <Bw0o2C.9qn@news.cso.uiuc.edu> amead@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Alan Mead) writes:
*
>all the important things.  I always thought that if you wanted a
>variable's value to persist from subroutine call to subroutine call
>(like a C static) that you had to declare it global...  I never knew
>that a typed constant would do the same thing:
>program test;
>  procedure fgj;
>    const
>      x : longint = 1;
>    begin
>      x := x + 1;
>      write( x:10 );
>    end;
>begin
>  fgj;
>  fgj;
>  fgj;
>  fgj;
>end.
>
>Is there any way I can get burned?  Is this slower or faster than
>declareing the structure globally?  I really prefer keeping the scope
>to the routine that needs to use it.
>-alan mead

	In my current comp sci course the professor discourages the
use of globals for a number of reasons.  Various side effects can occur,
like unrealized changing of a var through procedures or problems with
nested procedures which use the same global variable.  I see no way that
you can get burned by keeping it local.
	As for speed, my guess would be that it is slower to use the
local constant because memory must be allocated/deallocated for it for
every new call to the procedure (or function).  But remember it does have
its advantages (protection from hair loss and high blood pressure when
debugging is among them).
-- 
                          | "So who is this Al Gorithm guy they keep
Charles F. Lane           |  mentioning in my Computer Science classes?"
clane@Libws1.ic.sunysb.edu|
Newsgroups: comp.lang.pascal
From: nenaas@ulrik.uio.no (Nils-Eivind Naas)
Subject: Postscript from Turbo Pascal
Organization: University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:59:01 GMT

Sorry if this is a FAQ, but :

Does anybody know of a way to generate Postscript output from a TP program?
What is needed is simply :-) a Postscript printer driver to allow PS text
output. Commercial or freeware solutions are welcome.

Nils-Eivind Naas, ISAF, Oslo
Newsgroups: comp.lang.pascal
From: pfrants@cs.vu.nl (Frants P)
Subject: NextChar???
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 13:00:40 GMT

Maybe this is a FAQ...

I am used to use NextChar in Modula-2, but currently I am working with
Turbo-Pascal. It would be very usefull to have a similar function in 
Turbo-Pascal, wich I assume it has. The following code doesn't work:

VAR
	Data : text;

FUNCTION NextChar(Data : text):char;
BEGIN
	Data := Data^; { This is according standard Pascal }
END;

In the read.me file it is written that this doesn't work but could anybody
send me some code that does the job. If i need to use Turbo Vision then please
explain how I use Turbo Vision.

	Please E-Mail: pfrants@cs.vu.nl

Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
From: qmdbms@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Brian Schott)
Subject: a useful (?) example of J
Organization: Georgia State University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 19:03:46 GMT


I have struggled with the following problem and have finally 
come up with a practical solution.  I am posting this message
in the assumption that others may have a similar need.

Within an explicitly defined function (variable) I would like to
either continue with the next line of the function or exit from
the function, depending on the user's numerical keyboard input.
The function uses 1!:1 to read the keyboard.  Suite ($.) must be 
set to empty in order to exit or it is unchanged if an exit is
not needed (except that by the time suite is accessed it needs
to be beheaded (}.). See the example dummy function below.

     kb =. 1
     read =. 1!:1
     t =. 0 0$''
     t =. t, 'in =. ". read kb'
     t =. t, 'cont =. >'''' ; ": }. $.'
     t =. t, '$. =. ". (0 <: in){cont'
     t =. t, 'y. + in'

     ( t : '') 7
NB. at this point I enter either a positive or negative number at kb.

-- 
Brian Schott/Decision Sciences Dept.             qmdbms@gsusgi2.gsu.edu
College of Business Administration                         404-651-4070
Georgia State University                  interests: approx. reasoning,
Atlanta, Georgia USA 30303-3083     (B=)       decision support systems
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
From: rockwell@socrates.umd.edu (Raul Deluth Miller-Rockwell)
Subject: Re: spoke to Ken Iverson about J written material
Organization: Traveller
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 03:13:11 GMT

Richard J. Gaylord:
. ... I told whoever answered the phone that i had tried to learn J
. last year but was quite unsuccessful and i found the written
. material accompanying the program to be completely unhelpful to me
. but I was trying again since I found Smillie's article on Statistics
. and J to be totally fascinating.
.
. Well, i guess i shouldn't have said the written material was unhelpful
. since it turned out that i was speaking to Ken Iverson, the creator of
. APL and J. 

An interesting question occurs to me: which written material had you
tried to use?  If you were working with status.doc, and j.hlp, and the
like, you are completely correct -- this material is inadequate.  If
you're talking about Ken Iverson's books, I think it's fairly likely
that you've not gone through all the examples, or perhaps not even all
the books.

It's true, these books are fairly slow going, the first time around,
and some of the earlier editions had some typos in them [which can be
very confusing].  But this is very much in line with the "poetic"
aspect of the language -- it takes a certain amount of effort to
appreciate it, but there are people find it an incredibly expressive
language, once they've come to know it.

But without a transcript of your conversation, it will be difficult to
ascertain exactly what was said, and on what points [if any] the
conversation should have gone differently.

. he explained at great (endless) length how well wriiten the material
. was and how anyone who couldn't understand it just doesn't know how
. to learn a programming language or how to learn math for that
. matter.

Considering how easily I've seen someone with barely a high-school
education pick up some of this stuff, I think he might have a point.
Then again, maybe you were not talking about the same material.

Also, note that he's not getting paid any more for this than you are.
So it is, perhaps, fair to say that he is the customer as much as you
are.  And, he's no more a sales droid than you are.  Though I can
understand if you wish that he had been.

.    i expect to be told encouraging words like " well, some people,
.    because of the way they approach the textual material and because
.    of their particular approach to learning other programming
.    languages find it difficult to shift mental gears as is needed to
.    learn J.. however, if they keep at it (and maybe use the net
.    group to help them resolve their questions) they are inevitably
.    rewarded by having mastered an extremely powerful and productive
.    language"

There is some truth to this.

-- 
Raul Deluth Miller-Rockwell                   <rockwell@socrates.umd.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
From: Lou Glassy (fortran@giac1.oscs.montana.edu)
Subject: Use of J in Geostatistics
Originator: oususalg@nero.cs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University, Bozeman Montana USA
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 17:30:52 GMT

A question or two for the J community.  Do you know of anyone using J
in a geostatistics?  On a related vein, how would you J-users /
statisticians out there compare J as a statistical tool, relative to
ready-made stat packages (SAS, BMDP, SPSS, MiniTab...).  Clearly, J
doesn't have the extensive libraries of stat functions these other
packages have, but if one could generate the functions one needed...
what then?  How would you rate J vs these other tools?

Hamming's saying 'The purpose of computing is insight, not numbers'
comes to mind.  My experience thus far tells me J is a handy
'insight-tool'.

Specifically, there are some aspects of data in a spatial context that
require a slightly different treatment than standard classical
statistics would admit.  J's way of handling data in a uniform way (via
the rank operator, and other things besides) seems superbly suited for
the kinds of analyses I'd like to do.

When I play with J's capabilities for munging large aggregates of data
in a functional way, I am struck by the potential it (J) may have for
reduction of geographical data.

The adventure of learning J continues.  A Large-Thank-You goes to ISI
for making J available, and to Dr. Keith Smillie, whose document
'Statistics and J' was just the thing I needed to get going with J.

Lou.

-- 
Lou Glassy (oususalg@cs.montana.edu)                  C Delenda Est
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
From: Richard J. Gaylord <gaylord@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: spoke to Ken Iverson about J written material
X-Xxdate: Wed, 14 Oct 92 03:23:28 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Organization: University of Illinois
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 08:21:20 GMT
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A701433093019B15@mm-mac21.mse.uiuc.edu>

i called up Iverson Software yesterday to order the new version 6 of J. 

I told whoever answered the phone that i had tried to learn J last year
but was quite unsuccessful and i found the written material accompanying
the program to be completely unhelpful to me but I was trying again since
I found Smillie's article on Statistics and J to be totally fascinating.

Well, i guess i shouldn't have said the written material was unhelpful
since it turned out that i was speaking to Ken Iverson, the creator of
APL and J. 

he explained at great (endless) length how well wriiten the material was
and how anyone who couldn't understand it just doesn't know how to learn
a programming language or how to learn math for that matter.

i don't know if i was more ticked off by receiving a schoolboy lecture 
or being harangued at my own expense since it was  a long distance call
from my home in midday.

anyway, i'm going to keep trying to master M but Iverson Software ought
to keep that guy off the phone or he'll drive away all of J's customers.

If you call Iverson Software and you think you're talking to an elderly
gent, for god's sake don't discuss the merits of his language or his
wriiten material. fair warning.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
From: weg@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Eythan Weg)
Subject: Re: spoke to Ken Iverson about J written material
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 18:38:57 GMT

In article <Bw3r7M.9MJ@news.cso.uiuc.edu> Richard J. Gaylord <gaylord@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> writes:

   i called up Iverson Software yesterday to order the new version 6 of J. 

   I told whoever answered the phone that i had tried to learn J last year
   but was quite unsuccessful and i found the written material accompanying
   the program to be completely unhelpful to me but I was trying again since
   I found Smillie's article on Statistics and J to be totally fascinating.

   Well, i guess i shouldn't have said the written material was unhelpful
   since it turned out that i was speaking to Ken Iverson, the creator of
   APL and J. 

   he explained at great (endless) length how well wriiten the material was
   and how anyone who couldn't understand it just doesn't know how to learn
   a programming language or how to learn math for that matter.

   i don't know if i was more ticked off by receiving a schoolboy lecture 
   or being harangued at my own expense since it was  a long distance call
   from my home in midday.

   anyway, i'm going to keep trying to master M but Iverson Software ought
   to keep that guy off the phone or he'll drive away all of J's customers.

   If you call Iverson Software and you think you're talking to an elderly
   gent, for god's sake don't discuss the merits of his language or his
   wriiten material. fair warning.

I am flabbergasted.  If you found your conversation increasing in
cost, you should have asked to discontinue it.  Perfectly
understandable.  But to be sheepishly unhappy with it and then slug
your discontent on the net is shameful.

Besides, what exactly do expect from any ISI employee when you recount
your travail with J.  You might have simply put in your order.

Eythan
From: emclean@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Emmett McLean)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
Subject: Re: J verb for reading a file into J
Date: 14 Oct 92 06:44:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: csus.1992Oct14.064420.10927
Organization: San Francisco State University


 Here is an alternative which works for me on the VAX and NeXT.
 It could probably be cleaned up.  Not nearly as enlightening
 as Dr. Dickey's post ! (Until now I haven't used f.)

   read_helper =. ' (<;.1)~ 1, (10 { a.) = y. ':11 
   read  =.' (; }:&.> read_helper y.) <;.1 (y. #~ (10 { a.) ~: y.) ':11

 For example :

J5.1a   Copyright (c) 1990-1992, Iverson Software Inc.  All Rights Reserved.

   0!:2<'read_file.js'
   
   read_helper =. ' (<;.1)~ 1, (10 { a.) = y. ':11 
   read  =.' (; }:&.> read_helper y.) <;.1 (y. #~ (10 { a.) ~: y.) ':11
   
   x =. 1!:1<'test'
   x               NB. look at x
1 2 3
4 5 6
6 7 8
1 1 1

   $ x             NB. x is presently a character matrix
24
   $ > read x      NB. x as a character matrix
4 5
   3 * ". > read x NB. numeric matrix times 3
 3  6  9
12 15 18
18 21 24
 3  3  3
   
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
From: weg@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Eythan Weg)
Subject: Re: J verb for reading a file into J
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 18:10:58 GMT

In article <Bw159F.730@math.uwaterloo.ca> ljdickey@math.uwaterloo.ca (L.J. Dickey) writes:

   % J
   J5.1a   Copyright (c) 1990-1992, Iverson Software Inc.  All Rights Reserved.

      scr=.0!:2&<

      read=.1!:1&<

      scr 'out'

      fn =. 'profile.js'
      display =. 9!:3
      display 5   

      y =. read fn
      y
   scr=.0!:2&<

   read=.1!:1&<

      boxer =. < ;. _2
      boxer y
   +-----------++------------+
   |scr=.0!:2&<||read=.1!:1&<|
   +-----------++------------+
      > boxer y
   scr=.0!:2&< 

   read=.1!:1&<
      $ > boxer y
   3 12
      f =. > @ boxer @ read





One can obtain (??) an equivalent to f by:
	 lines=.];._2 @read

Eythan
From: wchang@phage.cshl.org (William Chang at Cold Spring Harbor Lab)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
Subject: Re: box vs. nest
Summary: Simplicity and power
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:14:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: phage.BvrH7p.G3J
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Lab, Long Is New York

The premise of nested arrays as I understand it, is that a simple and
elegant theory makes possible a language that is intuitive yet powerful.
The "religion" here is that simplicity is good.  Trenchard More's array 
theory starts with a handful of primitives (comparable to those of set 
theory), then builds a whole "language" in a way that minimizes special
cases and exceptions.  There are fewer design decisions to be made (but 
they are critical) because the language is constrained by powerful theorems,
i.e. functional identities.  (Hence there is less that one has to remember.)
For example, there is an identity involving REDUCTION and CONCATENATION 
called the "linking hypothesis", which is quite intuitive.  If it is true,
reduction can be defined without special cases; but it turns out to be 
false for most alternative theories.  The question is, how should such 
knowledge influence language design?

It seems to me that the argument for boxed arrays is based on the opposite 
"religion" that power is good.  Since box can be used to define enclose, 
this system is more powerful (indeed box is pretty close to reference 
in a conventional language).  Hook and fork, function rank, are all
great features to have.  If they work well, and are reasonably easy 
to learn, who can complain? 

Of course there is more to language design than the underlying theory.
The final product is the result of many practical design decisions.
(I have a fortune cookie that says--really--"Simplicity of character
is the natural result of profound thought", taped to my Macintosh.
The Mac user interface took several years to design, another several
years to implement.)  So there may not be a direct correlation between
theory and practice.  I have before me APL2, APL*PLUS, VAXAPL, and 
Dyalog; APL2 is the most inelegant of the bunch.  Really a poor rendition
of nested arrays, compared to Nial.  But I use it because it is cheap
and fast and powerful enough and stable and easy to set up and talks
to unix and runs under X windows and prints to postscript.

As for J, given my limited knowledge I think it is too big and too 
complicated, several steps in the wrong direction from Dictionary APL 
or even APL\?.  It is not yet stable and lacks good documentation, 
perhaps the result of its complexity?  As a scientist, I cannot
get immersed in it because I have real work to do.

-- Bill Chang (wchang@cshl.org)      Cold Spring Harbor Lab, NY
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
From: Mike Kent <70530.1226@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: flames
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 07:22:11 GMT

That tag line about dousing flames with gasoline was intended to be read
as irony.  It clearly missed, and I apoligize to all.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
From: john@dyadic.co.uk (Dyadic Systems - John Scholes)
Subject: None (mail relay)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 16:59:12 +0000



Dyadic Systems Ltd. now has an email address.

If you have any  questions about  Dyalog APL,

under Unix, X-windows, MS-DOS, or MS-Windows,

you can reach us at : support@dyadic.co.uk
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
Subject: How to learn?
From: <REGHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thursday, 15 Oct 1992 10:26:54 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

I am interested in learning apl computer language.  Can anyone recommend a book
that I can get?
From: wgilson@ll.mit.edu (William Gilson)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
Subject: Math library
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:39:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: ll.1992Oct15.203910.27968
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Originator: wgilson@ll.mit.edu (William Gilson)


Is there an on-line APL math library available?  I am looking for something on
the order of a poor-man's IMSL library for APL.   Any leads would be appreciated.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
From: emclean@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Emmett McLean)
Subject: Re: J written material (Emmett repost)
Organization: San Francisco State University
Distribution: NA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 04:23:06 GMT

  Sorry. There were so many misspelled words in
  my earlier post that I made an idiot of myself.
 
  As I see it there are two issues, the rebuff issue,
  (already discussed) and the quality of Iverson's
  publications on J.  Here are my thoughts.

  The Dictionary of J " gets my thumbs up. 
  It is terse reading for the person new to J  but
  for the person familiar with J it is concise. I read
  it every day, and have purchased three new versions.

  An "Introduction to J" is great in that it covers most
  of what J is about and presents it in a way that anyone
  can understand. I like the fact that most of the
  interactive sessions in the book show the computers'
  response.  This aspect allows the reader to learn about J
  while reading at the local coffee shop. (And here in San 
  Francisco there's lots of um.)

  "Programming in J"  is kind of disappointing. The section 
  on branching has some good examples, but no written 
  explanation. In most cases, the computer's responses to 
  interactive commands is omitted so you must be at a terminal 
  to benefit from reading the book. (A drag) The explanation of
  creating functions via explicit definition could
  be improved and put in the section on writting programs.
  (I learned about explicit definition by reading Raul 
  Rockwell's translation of an eigenvalue problem on 
  the net.) Most disappointing is what the text omits.
  No useful examples on user defined conjunctions. No
  useful examples of how to glue verbs together in
  tacit definition. Too many questions which, if the
  reader can't figure out, have no answers.(  In this
  aspect the book seems like it was written by a professor
  instead of a software publisher. ) No comprehensive
  look at the " :m" uses of a gerund.  Mostly vanilla
  stuff . Nothing about how to execute the equivalent
  APL instruction "A[3;] = ,b" , a must for a programmer.
  No write up on the advantages of J over APL or explanation
  of the difference in orientation of the items (down not
  sideways -why is this better again?) or how much
  tacit definition helps the compiler.

  Much of this stuff I suppose I will find by reading
  ACM APL literature. 

  "Arithmetic" is also kind ofdisappointing. Mostly a 
  rehash of "Programming in J" with a few shards of stuff
  about polynomials and combinations.  I never reference it.
  I expect "Calculus" to be about as useful.

  PS.  Just because I say something is disappointing doesn't
  mean I'd discourage someone from buying it . I want to
  see J survive and hope ISI sells lots of books.

  Emmett, vpcsc4@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu 

  My opinions only.
From: vpcsc4@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Emmett McLean)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
Subject: Re: J verb for reading a file into J
Date: 14 Oct 92 07:02:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: csus.1992Oct14.070249.11308
Organization: San Francisco State University


 Here is an alternative which works on the VAX and NeXT.
 It could probably be cleaned up.

   read_helper =. ' (<;.1)~ 1, (10 { a.) = y. ':11 
   read  =.' (; }:&.> read_helper y.) <;.1 (y. #~ (10 { a.) ~: y.) ':11

 For example :

J5.1a   Copyright (c) 1990-1992, Iverson Software Inc.  All Rights Reserved.

   0!:2<'read_file.js'
   
   read_helper =. ' (<;.1)~ 1, (10 { a.) = y. ':11 
   read  =.' (; }:&.> read_helper y.) <;.1 (y. #~ (10 { a.) ~: y.) ':11
   
   x =. 1!:1<'test'
   x               NB. look at x
1 2 3
4 5 6
6 7 8
1 1 1

   $ x             NB. x is presently a character matrix
24
   $ > read x      NB. x as a character matrix
4 5
   3 * ". > read x NB. numeric matrix times 3
 3  6  9
12 15 18
18 21 24
 3  3  3
   
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
From: "Tansin A. Darcos & Company" <0005066432@mcimail.com>
Subject: APL Book Auction, Final Results
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:31:00 GMT

Winning bidders: Please send check and mailing address to:
    Dick Holt, Box 4496, Silver Spring  MD  20914.  
Upon reciept of check, I'll send the books.
==========================================================
                           Winning Bids   
=======================================
>>> Paul Robinson
Sprint Word Processor:        $8       
=======================================
>>> Pedro Conte de Barros     barros@imr.no
Bergquist Adv. Utilities      $30        
Probability in APL (Alvord)   $15      
=======================================
>>> Bill Chang 8/29           wchang@cshl.org
APL92 proceedings             $15        
APL as Tool of Thought NY     $10      
APL87 Tutorials               $5       
APL89 Tutorials               $5       
APL-CAM                       $4 each  
Sharp APL manual              $5       
=======================================
>>> Russ Urquhart             russur@bach.convex.com
Algebra, a New Treatment      $5       
Calculus in a New Key         $10      
=======================================
>>> Steve Drossel             hexagen@world.std.org
NASA Viking Images of Mars    $5        
=======================================
<end of list>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl