Organization: Virginia Department of Health
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 11 Jan 1993 22:18:05 EST
From:         "Michael A. Kline" <MKLINE@VDH.BITNET>
Subject:      Christian Nation-5 Comments

                      On the Christian Nation Posts

    I'm going to try more comments this time, actually these have been
split from the actual post as this got to be a post in itself. I seem to
be taking a lot of heat for this series. I would like to know that some
are really getting some benefit out of this particular series.  There are
other series, other current events I could be working on. :-) I shall
attempt to address some of them. before I start. With more comments, I'll
be keeping the "base postings" much shorter and devote more time and
space to comments, though I sometimes think this only to give those who
object something more to object to. No problem with that.

    Also, some of the topics discussed here were brought up on one list
and not another, so if I talk about something and you think, "I don't
remember that." it may have been on one of the other lists. Thanks.
Many of you probably know I'm not the best speaker, etc, and that
sometimes I don't come across all that well, so if something sounds weird,
give me the benefit of the doubt and ask "What did you mean by this...?"

    One topic that was brought up was simply the title. Did our Founding
Fathers intend America to be a Christian Nation? Okay, let's remember
that they did NOT have the benefit of BITNET so that they could send
notes to all the Christian lists and ask if this was possible. They did
NOT have all the commentators, or the benefit of seeing how well Russia
worked out. They did not get to see how well Brazil worked out who were
in essence the same people, but went to that country looking for gold,
not to do what Christ would have them to do. They didn't have the benefit
of Martin Luther King to tell them how wrong slavery was.

    If you had your own private island and were doing the same as our
Founding Fathers, what "rules" would you put into effect? You may say
that would never happen, and you may be right, but it DID happen to our
Founding Fathers. They really thought they were doing something, at least
I think so, that would please God, that would be a sample of "How would
Jesus do this?" Where would you start? Is murder bad? Should you allow
religion in your "schools?" Let's say the citizens are members of this
list. We're all Christian. Do we pray in school? Do we pray at work?

    Today America leads and is #1 in several categories:
         #1 in the WORLD in violent crime.
         #1 in the WORLD in divorce.
         #1 in the WESTERN WORLD in teen pregnancies.
         #1 in the WORLD in voluntary abortions.
         #1 in illegal drug use.
         #1 in the INDUSTRIAL NATIONS in illiteracy.
            (from 1/11/93 700 Club)
            "Millions in the shadow of a nation that's forgotten God."

    Russia and some of the countries can't get enough of Jesus and the
gospel message. They are using government helicopters, government TV
stations, and government schools to preach the gospel, but here in
America, everyone is sure we'll be better off without God, confine
Him into a small corner of our life and keep Him private. We wouldn't
want to offend anyone with the Savior of the World, after all maybe
they are happy in their sin. Maybe a loving God will not commit them
to Hell. That was then, God has changed. Jesus didn't come to fulfil
the law, He came to change it, to make Christian mush that is good to
eat, all sugary and without lumps, and you can eat your fill.

    Ironically, as I typed this in, there was a story on the 700
Club about their program in the Ukraine who saw the 700 Club in Russian
on government TV and found her need to have a Savior. So she accepted
Jesus Christ and a while later, he father did at a revival.

    I, actually Ankerberg and Wallbuilder Ministries, show that the
Founding Fathers wanted a Christian Nation and we are told you can't have
a Christian Nation. Maybe we are right. Maybe we should say a nation that
is blessed by God. The Old Testament shows "good kings" and "bad kings".
Bad kings usually reap the "rewards" of their "badness". I hear "How
could they be Christians, they had slaves?" I know, but look at David and
all the things that he did, had Uraih(?) killed and took his wife, even
got her pregnant before her husband was dead. What did God say, "David
was a man after My own heart." Why? Because he wanted to please God. He
just got "side tracked" from time to time. David wasn't perfect. Neither
are the Founding Fathers. I'm sure they were flawed.

    I'm told we're not talking being politically correct, but it seems
that the objects are of a manner of "You have to show at least 1 bad
point, for every good point they did. If Washington wanted to follow God,
then you have to show where he owned a slave or beat someone, or falsely
accused someone." I know this isn't exactly the case, but it's like if we
hold someone "up", then we are worshiping a false idol. I wonder if it
isn't that we have to tear down any "idols" so that we look pretty good
to ourselves. My daughters do this all the time. If the problem is that
Susy has not cleaned her bed, I'm reminded of the time Rachel was so slow
doing the dishes and Sarah took a week to pick up such and such.

    It seems we can't have "heroes" any more. If we do, Christ somehow
takes a lesser position. There is only ONE GOD, no one can take that
place. James Kiefer could probably help me out here. Logic is not my
thing unless it's in REXX or COBOL or some other language. Can you
understand what I mean? Yes, we ARE supposed to be like Jesus, but there
ought to be others that we can use to pattern our lives after as well.
Look at all the devotionals. How many have read biographies of "Great
Men?" How many continue to do so?

    Okay, so much for heroes, now on to "Founding Fathers".

    I post on Clinton. Says he'll help schools and puts his daughter in
public school. (That one may still be a post.) Says he'll cut White House
and Congress. Now no Congress cuts, no White House staffs. Says he'll cut
the budget when he thinks it will be $309 billion and now "just can't
manage when it's up to $292" or what ever. I'm told "How dare you
complain, he is our president. We ought to be praying for him." I post on
our Founding Fathers and it seems they are "fair game" even though some
of them were presidents, etc. I guess once they are out of office, they
are fair game for anything. It's just that I see a lot of inconsistencies
in the criticisms. I need to be careful myself that I don't fall into it.

    Someone posted about confused Christians who go around and say that
if we can establish a Christian "world" we can give Christ a present when
He gets back. This WAS a big movement and had captured a lot of people.
I think Pat Robertson was quoted saying something to that effect. James
Robinson was also mentioned. I don't know about JR, but currently I've
even heard Pat criticize the movement in Korea(?) saying the same thing,
and even naming a date. I don't think very many would disagree anymore
that no matter what we do, it won't "help" Jesus when He comes back to
rule. Hey, He don't need any help.

    700 Club is doing a series on "For Such A Time As This" this week.
It's a calling of the nation to prayer. I recommend it to any of you able
to see it. They even had the portion of Rush talking about the soul of
America "What happened to it?" Yes, they are also calling for members,
but even so, it's good, and I'm not getting anything by telling you to do
so. I am a member and feel comfortable with what they do. It's my "world
outreach" portion of my funding.

Maks.
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