From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.usenet,news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing
Subject: Re: NetNews Contract?  NOT!
Date: 24 Aug 92 22:59:08 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: gte

In article <1992Aug20.002301.29324@wolves.uucp>, news@wolves.uucp (The Wolfe of the Den) writes:
> In article <1992Aug17.171337.10576@gtephx.UUCP> forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes:
> >
> >In posting here, you enter into an contractual agreement - ignorance
> >of the terms does not alter them in the least.]
> 
> Horse hockey.
> 
> Find me an entity or person with whom I have a valid contract with for
> netnews.
> 
> You keep talking about this imaginary contract.  Are you trying to
> convince yourself?
> 
> Simply repeating something often enough does NOT make it true, as much
> as you might like to convince someone of the existence of this imaginary
> contractual arrangement.
> 
> If there were a contract, please specify exactly what you think is
> covered, what actions are required, what is the consideration, what are
> the penalties for non-completion, where is the assent?

A contract is an agreement between two parties to exchanges goods, services
and/or money.  The only requirements for forming a binding contract are 
that the parties entered into the agreement voluntarily and that the 
original intent of the parties has not be obstructed by outside forces.

You may not be aware of this, but you have a contract with your state
governemnt (if you have a valid driver's license): part of that contract
states that you waive your right to a trial by jury for certain 
traffic violations -- don't believe me? try getting a ticket and 
then asking the judge for a jury trial -- You *do* have a constitutional
right to trial by jury -- even for civil cases.  But you *can* contract
away those rights, provided no-one forces you.  And since it is very 
unlikely that anyone has ever forced you to get a Driver's license, you
entered that contract willingly, if unknowingly.

As to the netnews contract: you want to send information to computers
all over and get responses back from them: the owners those computers
agree to let you send and receive provided that they get certain 
distribution rights: we have a freely entered into agreement to
exchanges goods(your works) and services(transmission of those
works) and sometimes money.  This meets the requirements of a 
contract, even if you do not realize that you have done so.

Part of the fine print of the agreement, or contract, is found in
news.announce.newusers.  The software automatically subscribes you
to that group (at least the stuff we're using does) so that you
may become informed of the terms and conditions of using netnews.

If you do not read or agreee with that info, but use netnews anyway,
you are legally agreeing to the content anyway.  (Just try signing a 
contract without reading the fine print and then see if you can get
it voided because you did not know what it said.)

Go look up the legal definition of a contract (not legal advice for
writing a contract, but a real definition).  Words are not necessary
to form a contract: granted, written, signed and notarized contracts
are easier to prove, but there are many other ways to form a contract
which can be binding in court.

-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda
Newsgroups: alt.culture.usenet,news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing