HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: awbaben@accucx.cc.ruu.nl (Marcel Kramer)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Steward's office restructuring.
Date: 31 Jul 92 16:13:08 GMT
Reply-To: awbaben@accucx.UUCP (Marcel Kramer)
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: Academic Computer Centre Utrecht, The Netherlands

Greetings to those (still) assembled on this fair bridge from Gerulf

Joseph d'Aquitaine wrote:

>	Mikjal, I understand from a herald in Polderslot (Netherlands,
> right Arval?) that he looked into SCA heraldry in regard to his country's
> laws.  The upshot there was that he talked with appropriate authorities,
> emphasized the "theater" and educational nature of the SCA, and (I believe)
> got Royal permission to continue these activities in those contexts. I think
> that Brigantia (or one of his predecessors) would have more of the story if
> your interest continues.

Gentle Lord, I fear that there must be a little misunderstanding. Since I
am the Herald of the fair shire of Polderslot, I think I should have heard
about this. I am only the 2nd herald of our shire, and my predecessor
never mentioned this fact to me. I also believe that the 'heraldic authori-
ties' in my country (indeed the Netherlands) are not very vigilant, to say
the least. Any *Royal* permission would no doubt have found its way into
our shires archives. They certainly are not in the heralds files.
Maybe another shire? Perhaps we can find out. If Master Arval, or Brigantia 
can't shed any light I can talk to the principality historian.

    Yours in service,


	Gerulf

    Polderslot Pursuivant
    Drachenwald, East Kingdom.

Gerulf sign's with his name and title to avoid being taken for somebody
else. Gerulf does not have a last name. (They seldom do in the 9th c :-)

=========================================================================
=  M. Kramer, Dep. B & V, State University of Utrecht, The Netherlands  =
=  E-Mail: m.kramer@cc.ruu.nl | Phone: 31-30-533318 | Fax: 31-30-532837 =
=========================================================================

From: Stephen.Whitis@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Whitis)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Courtesy, Filking, Viole
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 11:03:20

On the subject of violence at events, Brynjolfr wrote...

>These facts are true anywhere. One thing I learned a long time ago is that
>nowhere is safe... The supposedly safer rural areas can be just as
>extremely violent as cities. This applies to events, too.

It also seems to apply to the Rialto.  :^)

>-Brynjolfr Myrkjartanarson, Compaignie Mercurie, Seashire, Ruantallan,
>East                                                                      

Stephen of the Grove
Steppes/Ansteorra        FIDO 1:124/4229
Stephen.Whitis@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org
___
 X MegaMail 2.10 #0:CRUSADE CRUSADE CRUSADE!!!!

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Understanding (was Basic Courtesy)
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:19:32 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: SCA

Unto the good gentles of the Rialto does Hossein Ali Qomi send greetings
and prayers for the blessings of Allah, and especially unto Esmeralda la
Sabia.

Esmeralda writes:

>Hossein responds to Bertram. What I heard, (and please correct me
>as to your intent, because at this point, I can only think that I
>misinterpreted) is that discourtesy, and hurting others is o.k. if
>you are saying the truth. That saying your peace and trying to spare
>others feelings a little is not just possible.
>
>It was this that I was railing against so strongly. I beleive it is
>possible to state an opinion, or give constructive critisism without
>it coming across as attacking the individual.

I fear that you have fundamentally misunderstood my point.  I do not think
that in all cases stating an opinion or giving constructive criticism has
to come across as a personal attack.  What I firmly believe is that honest,
straightforward comment and criticism, particularly where it touches
matters of principle, is more important than sollicitude for possible
hurt feelings.  Thus, if the choice is between tolerating infringement of
principle and hurting somebody's feelings, I'm prepared to accept the
consequences of hurting somebody's feelings or, conversely, having my
own hurt.  If you can serve the point of principle without hurting anyone's
feelings, that is best, but I'm not prepared to second-guess anybody about
that possibility.

Best Wishes,

Hossein/Greg
From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: "Twinkie" names and "of X"
Date: 27 Jul 92 06:36:26 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: SCA

Unto the good gentles of the Rialto does Hossein Ali Qomi send greetings and
prayers for the blessings of Allah.

Wolfrick recently posted in response to Arval:

>I believe that an appropriate translation of Pierre Cheval might be
>"Horse Peter."

Far be it from me to denigrate a pleasant little exercise in scatology, but
you are wrong on this.  And, I fear, so also is Master Arval who argues
that Pierre Cheval was likely a horse-merchant's name.  The far more common
use of "cheval" as a descriptor is in France south of the Loire from the
mid-thirteenth century onward.  "Chevalier" was beginning to displace "miles"
as a descriptor of knights at this time in Aquitanian, Poitevin, Gascon, and
Burgundian charters.  The most common abbreviation for "chevalier" in these
documents was "cheval."  De Vic's _Histoire generale de Languedoc_ provides
literally hundreds of examples of this phenomenon.

"Horse Peter" was probably "Peter, Knight," and usually he was endowing
abbeys with lands (as most of the charters suggest) rather than being 
well-endowed himself.

Best Wishes,

Hossein/Greg
From: Katherine.Stewart@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Katherine Stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Regarding Cameras at SCA events
Date: 23 Jul 92 11:51:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.712043902.F00003

BA>   G> general.  I actively detest sitting in a candlelit
BA>   G> hall, hearing someone being roundly praised for their good service 
BA>   G> to King and Baron, and having a mess of flashbulbs go off.  Right 
BA>   G> up there with hurling bckets of ice water on newlyweds for spoiling 
BA>   G> the mood.

I have to agree with this statement!

BA>  For my two pence worth, I don't mind being photographed, although
BA>  I do look better if I realize it and have a chance to "pose" -- not a
BA>  lotjust a bit to get the double chin out of the way and add a smile.
BA>  not too fond of camcorders, but I tolerate them.  Flashes, OTOH, are
BA>  a very mundane intrusion.  You can't ignore them and they catch your
BA>  attention regardless of where you were looking.  I firmly believe
BA>  that flash units of any kind should be banned.  Ansteorra's more
BA>  enlightened crowns *have* banned them from court.  Let those who would 
BA>  have photos learn about film speeds!  Candle-lit pictures from a 
BA>  medium-good photographer look very nice!  (period, no, but still nice)

As a (very) amature photo taker, I've found that patience, a good fast film, 
a tripod, and a cable shutter release are all the tools I need to take 
quality pictures, and at *very* low light levels. I try to respect the 
wishes of people and ask before taking a picture of a person. However I do 
take my camera to court (I got a nice picture of Moreach standing guard at 
July coronation, and I'm not even dead yet...) I noticed that those who were 
using flashes were standing too far away from what they were taking a 
picture of.  A flash has a very limited range and makes for very harsh ugly 
pictures at night as well as robbing *everyone* of their night vision! Not 
only does not using flash units make sense photography wise, it's a very 
kind and courteous act for the photographer to do as well.

I also try to gauge the reactions of those around me, If I see a lot of 
glaring I put the camera away. I often wear an Airsaidh (which is more or 
less a very large blanket worn by Scot women in period) and keep my camera 
in it so it isn't so obtrusive. I've even toyed with the idea of putting my 
camera in a relicquary (sp?) and mounting it on a monopod (staff), to 
minimize the effect of the camera's presence.

If those of you using a camera practice reasonable discretion, courtesy, and 
a bit of good sense there shouldn't be any problems, especially if you 
respect the wishes of those gentles who don't want their picture taken. If 
someone says "No" believe them!

Katherine FitzAlan
katherine.stewart@f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org
yoshi@agora.rain.com 
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: RS_NUSSLEBR@APPSTATE.EDU (*Bob Nussle)
Subject: Re: Rape, women, carrying weapons
Organization: APPALACHIAN STATE UNIVERSITY
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 13:50:12 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.23


In <archer.126@utkux1.utk.edu> archer@utkux1.utk.edu writes:

> In article <1992Jul22.181209.24994@samba.oit.unc.edu> 
Ann.Feeney@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Ann Feeney) writes:
> 
> >Not only that they can lead to fatalities, but if your attacker
> >is bigger, srtonger, luckier, whatever, your little knife can
> >quickly be used _against_ you, either as extra co-ercion, or
> >as a weapon.
> 
> While this is a possibility, this is not always the case.
> 
> >So in other words, they can't help, and they're very likely to get 
> >not only the attacker (for whom I have little sympathy--if it's
> >a question of his/her safety, I'd say carry all the knives you
> >want), but the weapon is more likely to hurt you.
>                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> This is not accurate.  Last years Uniform Crime Report, issued annually by 
> the FBI, showed resistance in ANY form is better than non-resistance.  
> Further, less than 7% of weapons used in self-defense were turned against 
> the victim.

It seems that there is no definitive answer to the question of whether or
not to defend one's self agaisnt an attacker.  The only response I can
personally have to this is that the only time I've ever been put in the
situation of a potential rape, I am absolutely certain that had I not been
carrying the Gerber knife I'd been given for a (then recent) birthday, I 
would not be writing this post today, ten years later.  I do not know the
disposition of that would-have-been rapist/car theif, but I suspect he's
dead.  I never gave the s.o.b. the chance to take my blade, I just used
it.  I was not then, and am not now 'trained' with a knife -- in any self
defense situation I'd much rather have a pistol in my paws, but I don't
habitually carry either weapon.  I guess that all I can say is that I was
very lucky, and further make every effort to avoid putting myself in the
situation again -- but further, if it ever comes to it again, at the very
least I'll do my damndest to take the b*****d out with me.

Pagane
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Carl J.M. Alexander)
Subject: Re: Basic Courtesy
Organization:  Organization??? 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 02:24:58 GMT

Hossein Ali Qomi writes:
 
[Quoting Yaakov:] 
>
>>                            Christian Von Jauregg
>>be a worthy story teller and a beginning bard.
>>Though cursed with inexperience and youth, I have
>>heard it said that many good bards have overcome
>>such handicaps....
>>  
>>But why did this song so rouse your ire....
>>                             Look around lords.
>>This be no event, no campground, not even
>>a post revel. THIS IS A COMPUTER SCREEN....
>>                              Nor did Christian
>>ever sing this song at an event. 
>
>                                                                Tibor
>informs us that young Christian performed this work at a period poetry
>session.  If Tibor is mistaken, please tell me.  
 
Tibor was, indeed, mistaken -- though innocently enough:  Christian 
Von Juaregg recently completed, and nearly simultaneously published, 
two items; Tibor was simply in error as to which was under discussion 
here.  Christian performed his other recently completed composition, a 
work in verse based upon occurrences at a recent event, at that party. 
While this piece of work has its problems -- it makes rather silly and 
mocking use of heroic and mythic emblems common to period works, and is 
overall just a bit too much on the silly side for my tastes -- it is 
nevertheless not without merit and shows promise.
 
I am a writer of some modest skills (sufficient to have made for me 
some of my mundane living; I have seen print in national magazines);
I can well imagine that this might not be the case had I been met, 
at Christian's age, with the sort of reception he is currently getting 
here.  I would like to take this opportunity to suggest to him that 
he not throw up his hands in dismay, but continue to try to improve 
his skills.  And, if I may be so bold as to publish here a bit of my 
own verse (Copyright 1992 by CJM Alexander  ;^) ), I would like to pass 
on to him, and other aspiring writers, a bit of advice that I have 
followed for years, and found useful:    
 
     The aspiring poet's greatest curse
     Is too great desire to publish his verse.
 
Alexander of Kiev                       Carolingia, East

Carl Alexander                          Harvard Square, Cambridge, Mass.
carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu 
 
Organization: Engineering Design Research Center, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 12:44:10 -0400 
From: "Andrea B. Gansley-Ortiz" <ag1v+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Period vs. Filk (was Basic Courtesy)

Most worshipful company of readers, I recommend me to you.

I am interested in what people see as filk and where they 
think it's appropriate to be sung or published.

I think there are many levels of filk. I enjoy sometimes 
taking a period song and writing about an SCA event. I 
don't know who's recognized this or not, but no one has
ever really commented about the songs to me.  I will sing
these songs at SCA events. Is this a filk? Is it appropriate
to sing at an event?

Some people will take a modern song and write very period
sounding lyrics. (i.e. not about the SCA) If the song is
recognizable, is it a filk? If the song is not recognizable
to most, is it a filk? Would the first be inappropriate at
an event and the second not. (please excuse the double negative.)

A person takes a modern song and writes specifically about an
SCA related incident or phenomena? What are the appropriate 
places for this type of song? Are there those who believe there
are no appropriate places? Why or why not?


Su segura servidora,
   Esmeralda la Sabia
From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period vs. Filk (was Basic Courtesy)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 17:32:09 EST
Organization: Ailanthus Project

asparrow@mcs213f.cs.umr.edu (Angelia Sparrow) writes:

> Esmeralda asks about definitions of filk.
> 
> The definition I work from is very broad:
> any words put to a non-original tune.
> 
> This includes everything from the Calontir Hampster
> Song to many, many hymns. (Lutherns and Baptists don't
> sing the same tunes)

by this definition, a song can be filk AND period at the same time.  i 
went to a midieval christmas carol concert a few years back, where they 
explained the background of the songs before they sang them, and one of 
them had been this REALLY bawdy tavern song about a prostitute with 
bedsores...  but it was a lovely carol...

i favor a more restrictive definition of filk, myself...  are songs 
translated form the original language filk by this definition?

                                         -ailsa

                ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
 
"If it has tires or testicles, you're going to have trouble with it."
                            _Ohio state Senator Linda Furney
From: samlb@optilink.UUCP (Sam Bassett)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Libel Suits
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:51:01 GMT
Organization: Old, used burocrat

In article <1992Jul20.194919.4835@watson.ibm.com> mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman) writes:
>Our lawyers
>may be able to eliminate part of that problem.  If that isn't what we pay
>the corporation for, what is?

	It is not clear to me that the Society even _has_ regular legal
counsel, nor what the budget items for "Legal Services" really get us.
	Anecdotal evidence (unconfirmed rumors) indicate that the BoD and
Steward have been less than agressive in the past about taking legal
action to protect the Society from various sorts of legal harassment.

-- 
Sam'l Bassett -- System Administrator 	      (among other silly things)
Work: DSC/Optilink, 1310-C Redwood Wy, Petaluma CA 94954; 1-707-792-7253
Internet: samlb@optilink.com 		      UUCP: uunet!optilink!samlb
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Period vs. Filk (was Basic Courtesy)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 20:37:58

Milady Esmeralda said:
 ABG> I think there are many levels of filk. I enjoy sometimes 
 ABG> taking a period song and writing about an SCA event. I 
 ABG> don't know who's recognized this or not, but no one has
 ABG> ever really commented about the songs to me.  I will sing
 ABG> these songs at SCA events. Is this a filk? Is it appropriate
 ABG> to sing at an event?
   While this is "technically" a filk, I think Hal's term of contrefait 
 fits best.  I would be very content to hear this type of combination 
 anytime, at an event or even post-revel.  After all, what you have done 
 here is something that was done in period -- composing tunes seems the 
 rarest of gifts, musically speaking.
..
 ABG> Some people will take a modern song and write very period
 ABG> sounding lyrics. (i.e. not about the SCA) If the song is
 ABG> recognizable, is it a filk? If the song is not recognizable
 ABG> to most, is it a filk? Would the first be inappropriate at
 ABG> an event and the second not. (please excuse the double negative.)
   If I can recognize the tune as something modern, I'd prefer not to 
 hear it at all.  I once listened to Mistress Aelflaed of the Outlands 
 discussing such.  In particular, outdoors, a tune will carry far beyond 
 the words.  So, to the hearer in the distance, the acceptable words have  faded away, and only the modernness remains.  Such folk should be 
 encouraged to listen to some of the tapes available with period music. 
 Thus they can start using better music to contrefait from....
..
 ABG> A person takes a modern song and writes specifically about an
 ABG> SCA related incident or phenomena? What are the appropriate 
 ABG> places for this type of song? Are there those who believe there
 ABG> are no appropriate places? Why or why not?
   I'd really prefer not to hear this at any place I'm in costume at, 
 with the possible exception of a post-revel, where my costume is the 
 exception.  Usually songs of this type are distinguished by closely 
 following the words of the original, and tend to use rock songs, rather 
 than modern folk songs.  Modern folk songs don't sound the same as 
 older ones.
    So, if I don't hear the modern referrent, I won't object.  Heck, I 
 don't object when I hear the 3rd type, although I generally don't sing 
 them.  (Occassional point-making aside).  If I hear someone who seems 
 to have a flair, I'd consider making them a gift of a period-music 
 tape.
      Gwenllian CfM

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: sjvn@access.digex.com (Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols)
Subject: Re: Advice for Pennsic
Keywords: Pennsic, Camping, linen
Organization: Express Access Public Access UNIX, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 18:16:19 GMT

Linens and such often become wet in this situation from interior wall
condensation.  The solution is to simply move everything at least
an inch from the wall and all should be well.

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols
In society, Alexis Stephanovich Monomach 
sjvn@access.digex.com
-- 
Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols
sjvn@access.digex.com
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Photography in the SCA (long)
Keywords: photo, camera
Date: 22 Jul 92 19:37:08 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Jul22.190905.8490@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> amlsmith@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Andrew Smith) writes:
>
[A long, good post on the pros and cons of cameras which ends by defining
this as the least offensive phenomenon:]

>Having the camera so well hidden, that no one knows about it until the
>next post-revel when the photos come out, and _everyone_ agrees that they
>are all superb photos.  (I should wish! :)

This is what Hal's photo sessions usually come up with.  He sits there
with the camera in his lap till you've forgotten he has it, and then
he goes [tiny sound of shutter, not followed by the roar of the autowind]
and you never know it till you see it at the following week's BART practice.

Now, I shall be bringing Hal's camera to the War, and I shall be taking
pictures with it.  If you don't want the image of your physical envelope
to travel to the West, come and tell me, "Hi, I'm So-and-so and I don't
want my picture taken."  I can relate to that.  Even My Lord Husband
has never managed to take a picture of me that doesn't look like an
elderly elephant.  

Because otherwise probably I _shall_ take your picture and take it home
and tell Hal, "See, that's what So-and-so looks like!"

(Remember the thread, some months back, when we all tried to guess what
we looked like?  And people thought I was *thin*?)

(N.B.  I'm not even going to _bring_ the flash attachment.)



Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Argent, a cross forme'e sable

Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Subject: Re: "Once upon a Weekend" demo tape
Reply-To: boylan@ljohub.enet.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: usa, world, na
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:25:24 GMT


In article <1992Jul23.182936.22256@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>,
tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin) writes a most courteous
message, the lengthy body of which I do not wish to quote - I only wish
to offer my compliments on a most polite and well-written missive.

	Thank you, m'lord!

				- - Steve

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Subject: Re: Guns 'n' Armour (was: Re
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:05:58 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Alexander of Kiev (Carl J.M. Alexander) writes:

>>I'm afraid not.  It is easy to tell when firearms are loaded: always.
> 
>You know that, and I know that; the problem is: what assurance do we 
>have that the guy carrying the gun knows that?

Exactly the same assurance that the guy carrying the sword
knows it's sharp.

-- Nicholas van Leyden



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca