From: ghbr@fmg.bt.co.uk (Hossein Bagherzadeh Rafsanjani)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Re: Sigheh and all the rest of it.
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:22:20 GMT
Organization: British Telecom

In article <1992Apr16.005502.1129@ucbeh.san.uc.edu> minhaszt@ucbeh.san.uc.edu writes:

> In article <1992Apr15.163324.10586@fmg.bt.co.uk>, ghbr@fmg.bt.co.uk (Hossein Bagherzadeh Rafsanjani) writes:
> > In article <1992Apr14.104944.1103@ucbeh.san.uc.edu> minhaszt@ucbeh.san.uc.edu writes:
> > 
> >> ps. there are somethings that Islam will not budge on Mr. Rafsanjani, marriage
> >> is the only way a woman can get pregnant. There are no ands, ifs, or buts on
> >> this issue, even if the society where YOU might come from has some strange
> >> ideas about what marriage is all about.
> > 
> > Zafar, 
> > 
> > I am well aware that "there are somethings that Islam will not budge on"
> > including that "marriage is the only way a woman can get pregnant".
> > (Notwithstanding the case of Mary the Virgin!)  Indeed, you do not need to
> > remind me of the horrible fate of women who became pregnant by being raped in
> > Islamic countries (as I have covered that in my piece).  
>  ********************************************************

> You haven't shown any evidence from Quran or anything from Mohammad's life that
> would confirm that such a thing is allowed.

I am not in the business of declaring waht is "allowed" or not allowed in
Islam.  I am not a Mofti or Marja'e Teqlid.  My points were about what actually
was happening in the Moslem countries, and my reference to Islam was in quoting
from you.

Moreover, the discussion of what is allowed by Qor'aan, Mohammad etc is more
suitable in s.r.i.  So, if you want to continue this, I suggest you take it
there and leave Iranians carry on with their lively "Moshaa'ere"*.

> No, I am not disputing
> > that.  My points about marriage emanates from some other fundamental (and if I
> > may say so, egalitarian and humane) principles.  They are self-explanatory if
> > you read them objectively and with an open mind.
> > 
> > And most of the facts (you call them "strange ideas") I referred to are common
> > in almost all patriarchial societies (which include Islamic and many
> > non-Islamic countries alike), and are not restricted to "the society where YOU
> > (=me) might come from".
> > 
> > -hossein

> The point that I was trying to make is that the existing social phenomenon in
> countries in the East whether their populations are Muslim majority or not is
> not in line with the ideals of Islam. I know what could happen to a woman who
> is found raped in such countries as well, however I don't think you think that
> that the realities that come along with that are some how caused by Islam.  Do 
> you think that is the case?

No.  There are certainly deeper and more fundamental factors at work -- factors
which also colour the different interpretations of Islam now current in these
societies.

> zafar

-hossein
------------------

* What a lively Moshaa'ere!  I really enjoy it.  Pitty that because of
distance (and the time lapse involved) I can not take part (at least it is a
good excuse :-)).

And just think of the side-benefit it has had in engaging many who would
otherwise be engaged in slanging matches with each other on the net :-)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian