HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Date: 11 Jan 1993 04:55:44 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <C0n57o.GDs@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>Give me a bfeak.  Let's not forget who wrote OS/2.  IBM.  THEY invented
>REXX.  THEY were multitasking before you were born.  So what in OS/2
>was "ripped off" of the Amiga?

The use of REXX as a user-level form of inter-process communication
rather than a scripting language from an outdated mainframe?

Greg



--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
From: dtiberio@engws10.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Date: 12 Jan 93 09:11:21 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook

In article <10410@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com> peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany) writes:
>In article <JKH.93Jan10020832@whisker.lotus.ie> jkh@whisker.lotus.ie (Jordan K. Hubbard) writes:
>>
>>	people like Bill Gates have spoken about in the future users being able to
>>	put together their own applications, except that for an interapplication macro
>>	language, he wanted to use BASIC!  :-)
>
>Nice idea, I love Basic!

>>Hey, don't laugh.  Visual Basic isn't half bad, 
>
>Yes, I heard good things about it, should really give it a try.

>-- 
>Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel  // E-Mail to \\  Only my personal opinions...
>Commodore Frankfurt, Germany  \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
>Wer's nicht kann, soll's bleiben klopfen oder Steine lassen!

	One thing that most people don't realize is that BASIC is the
language of the future.

	- It has more implementations than any other language, and the
	number of implementations grows every year

	- It is much easier to program in, since memory needs and other 
	things are automatically accounted for, making it easier and
	reachable by more programmers

	- Potentially many of the newer BASICs are approaching the
	power of C and Assembly by allowing those routines to be linked

	- Future languages will be more like CanDo (which I have never
	used). Assume that future languages will have intuitive interfaces
	and minimal typing or learning curves.

	- Assembly is necessary. C will be around until a better BASIC
	replaces it, only it won't be called BASIC, but it may as well be.
	F-Basic is very powerful, yet is more like Pascal than BASIC. 


	Remember a few hundred years ago when looms used punch cards to make
loom patterns? Well, that may as well have been the first computer, although
mechanical. The computer of the future will not use punchcards, and it
won't look like a loom.


-- 
      Amiga Graphics Association BBS (516) 473-6351  24 HRS 14.4 v.32bis
ixemul.library mpeg_play mpeg_movies jpegs gifs 3d_objs music_mods adobe_fonts
	 login: ANONYMOUS password: GUEST for unrestricted downloads
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie)
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Originator: torrie@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: 13 Jan 93 05:44:20 GMT

davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn) writes:

>In article <1993Jan11.170315.8297@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>>Donald R Lloyd (don@chopin.udel.edu) wrote:
>>
>>:      MicroSoft wanted to use a version of BASIC as the integrating language
>>: ofr OS/2.  Someone brought in some Amigas to show what could be done with
>>: AREXX, and MS conceded; REXX became part of OS/2.

>Why do you find it so hard to accept that some things have been done well on
>the Amiga?

 I have problems with the dates.  When exactly did A/REXX become
available for use as an interapp scripting language?  The OS/2
(although it wasn't called that) project was started at Microsoft
before 1986 (remember, it was sort-of released in late 1987). On the
other hand, I don't believe REXX was bundled with OS/2 until version
1.2 (?), which may indeed have been after A/REXX was available.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evan Torrie.  Stanford University, Class of 199?       torrie@cs.stanford.edu 
Embrace rationalism, reject superstition.           Break away from the past.
"...there is only one thing worse than having marketing people on a project,
 and that is having no marketing people on a project."  - Larry Tesler.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 16:11:45 GMT

In article <1ic9ieINNglq@mercury.kingston.ac.uk> cs_e445@ceres (Vlod Kalicun) writes:
>barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>: of CrossDOS.  If having two disk icons for every disk was a "feature" 
>: Commodore would have left the FastFileSystem that way, since the FFS did 
>: exactly the same thing under 1.3.  Yet Commodore rewrote the FFS to remove 
>: this "feature", but has never bothered to do so for CrossDOS in 2.1 or 3.0.
>
>Actually I don't really mind this because if I have PC disk in, and I wish to
>format it for the amiga, I can just select df1:??? and use the format menu.
>If I select the PC disk icon it will PC format it. (which it should) but not
>for FFS.
>
>If above icon didn't exist I would have to use a disk formatting prog, like
>SuperDuper etc.

   Wrong.  If CrossDOS were properly implemented in the OS, selecting the
'format' menu entry would simply result in a window that gives you MS-DOS
and Amiga formatting options in one window.  You would not have to use anyJCL]3extra disk-formatting programs.

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of another computer
is a kludge.  It has nothing to do with the AGA chipset." -- me
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: Supermarket lines (was: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...)
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:14:27 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.120604.15250@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au> davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn) writes:
>In article <73346@cup.portal.com> TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko) writes:
>>
>>Incidentally, does it burn you up that many people buy 11 items
>>in the "10 items only" line at the supermarket?
>
>Yes, it does!  The question is, what do you do about it?  Personally I just
>stand there, in line behind them, and silently fume, while casting the
>occasional evil glare at them.  But, you're probably the assertive type who
>knows his rights and stands up for them (you _are_ American, aren't you?  :-)

Aw, we're not all that bad.  I'm from the Deep South and we tend to have
a little more patience and manners than most Yankees...  :-)

>You probably tell them in no uncertain terms that they're in the wrong line
>and, if they don't move, you'll call the store manager.  Then again, I could
>be wrong.

I'd probably let them be unless they had 20 or so items.  But I'd probably
gossip about them with the cashier after they'd left the store, we tend to
do that sort of thing a lot in the South.  :-)

>The real question is, how would -MB- behave?

He'd probably post to rec.grocery.stores.foodway with an article entitled
"FECAL is Dead!" in which he describes the downfall of the express checkout
line at the Foodway chain.

-MB- writes:

"A friend of mine in the meat department of the Foodway store in my home
town of Bumfuck, Iowa told me that FECAL (Foodway Express Checkout Access
Lane) is dead.  This is exactly as I predicted and it is a sure sign that
Foodway is going down the tubes.  Foodway only spend 2.5% of their revenue
on R&D last year and FECAL is well behind offerings from leaders like
Kroger, Piggly Wiggly, and Safeway.  

This is then end of the FECAL matter."

>>TomK@cup.portal.com
>>Tom Krotchko

>David Meiklejohn (davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au)
> - PC's, Unix, and networks by day, Amigas by night...
>Currently residing in Mareeba, Far North Queensland, Australia

Skip Sauls, skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
Subject: Re: Amiga and Macintosh Printing
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 19:24:29 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.105036.2029@msus1.msus.edu> martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU writes:
>In article <C0IysA.KHH@news.iastate.edu>, barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>>In article <C0Ipwn.2tv@starnine.com> mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:
>>>Because the Amiga's printing system is flexible, and the can optimize
>>>things as they see fit.
>>
>>>The Amiga is designed for printing to a wider range of printers than
>>>the Mac.  ImageWriters & LaserWriters.  Wow.
>>
>>   I have a package here that includes Macintosh printer drivers for over 
>>1000 printers.  WOW!!
>>
>
>Yea, Marc wow.  You blew $99 on a GDT Softworks program that should be FREE.

   Yes, you are comparing the Macintosh's printer drivers to the Amiga's
pathetic printers drivers.  Yes, most Amiga printer drivers are free, but 
they should be, because they are not very good.  

   Here are some capabilities that nearly all Macintosh printer drivers have
that Amiga printer drivers do not have:

      Support of outline font systems such as TrueType and Adobe Type Manager
      Print enlargement
      Print reduction
      Portrait and landscape paper orientations (Amiga supports this in
         in graphics mode only)
      Fractional widths
      Multiple paper bins on printers with this capability
      Envelope support, for many envelope sizes
      Precision bitmap alignment 
      
   Yes, the drivers in this package are not free.  But you are comparing this
package of drivers for over 1000 printers to the Amiga's very-mediocre printer
drivers that are free because they are junk.  There is a lot more involved in
developing a Macintosh printer driver than in developing an Amiga printer
driver.  And you get what you pay for.

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of another computer
is a kludge.  It has nothing to do with the AGA chipset." -- me
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: rehrauer@apollo.hp.com (Steve Rehrauer)
Subject: Re: Byte A4000/A3000T-040 Review
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 14:57:04 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <93008.084819PAACC@CUNYVM.BITNET> <PAACC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>  And come on,how many "home" users (with all the images that brings up) need a
>25MHz 68040 machine?

Depends on what they want to do, and on what sort of software they want to
run.  There's never "enough" CPU cycles, memory, disk capacity; software
(especially GUI versant software) happily soaks it up.

Besides, "need" is a subjective thing in the home computer (or consumer
electronics in general) market.  My father's convinced himself that he
*needs* to upgrade from his PC-AT class DOS box to a '486 box.  His AT box
hasn't suddenly stopped running his old software, he hasn't been buying
new S/W that brings it to its knees; he just feels like he's driving an
old, clunky car.  Since he can afford a better vehicle, he'll buy one.
And he'll be happy for a few years, until '686 boxes are ubiquitous and
cheap, and he once again feels like he *needs* a new toy...

If the price is right and it's marketed properly, whether people "need" it
or not, it'll sell.  (I'm not saying either of the two caveats apply to
the A4000, yet.)
-- 
"Look, Max: 'Cheese in a pressurized can'! |   Steve rehrauer@apollo.hp.com
 Even WE wouldn't eat THAT!"               | H.P. Systems Technology Division
   -- Freelance Police                     |    Massachusetts Language Lab
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 07:55:00 GMT

In article <1it7bvINN3jh@uwm.edu> bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
>In article <C0nIsp.H9K@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>>   You conveniently forgot what they are.  They are Final Copy and ADPro.  Both
>>are garbage, and can't even begin to compare with Word for Windows or a 
>
>Garbage my sweet ass, you fool.  Perhaps they FC isn't better than
>everything for Windows, but it _IS_ a powerful WP of its own right.
>And I contest...

   Final Copy is garbage.  Outline fonts is its primary selling point, and
Final Copy's outline font support sucks.  It must be more than a little
embarassing for Commodore that the word processing program they are packaging
with their 'power up' A1200s can't even support the CompuGraphic outline fonts
that are included with the system.  Final Copy II also sucks, and FC II is
better than Final Copy.

>>Windows image-processing program.  (I say that ADPro is garbage because it is
>>a totally hands-off image processing program.  Almost everything is done 
>>completely blind, so that you cannot see what you are doing.  And it has no
>>image editing and painting features.  This is more escusable for a program
>>running on an older Amiga, but for a program for an AGA Amiga it is garbage)
>
>This is where you show your total ignorance to ADPro's capabilities
>_AND_ to the Amiga market in general.
>
>1)  Don't even consider calling it garbage.  It does an awesome job of
>batch processing, and though its hands-off approach isn't fantastic,
>it does an unequivocably _AWESOME_ job at the many things it can do on
>FULL and PARTS OF images.  Perhaps your limited knowledge is of old
>versions.  Though the "hands off" feeling still exists, there are ways
>of manipulating parts of images.

   Of the 26 operators, only four are visual.

>2)  You call it garbage, and by doing that, say that you know NOTHING,
>or close to, when you speak of image-processing programs for ANY
>system.

   I've used Adobe PhotoShop on the Mac II systems at school, and it is 
FANTASTIC.  In order to approximate Photo Shop on the Amiga, you have to
combine ADPro with a paint program such as DPaint IV.  And even then Photo Shop
blows the ADPro/DPaint combination away.  

   BTW, would the ADPro/DPaint combination include any support for EPSF
images?  Adobe PhotoShop includes a limited PostScript interpreter for 
visualizing EPSF files.

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of another computer
is a kludge.  It has nothing to do with the AGA chipset." -- me
From: bruce@zuhause.MN.ORG (Bruce Albrecht)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Distribution: world
Date: 7 Jan 93 22:47:06 CST
Organization: Society to Stamp Out Bogus Organizations

In article <C0CyxF.2FM@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>   But the Amiga makes it especially simple.  Many of the problems I mentioned
>should not have made it past the beta-test stage, and yet have made it through
>one than one final OS release.  Things like the defects in the implementation
>of CrossDOS.  If having two disk icons for every disk was a "feature" 
>Commodore would have left the FastFileSystem that way, since the FFS did 
>exactly the same thing under 1.3.  Yet Commodore rewrote the FFS to remove 
>this "feature", but has never bothered to do so for CrossDOS in 2.1 or 3.0.

Perhaps if CBM had written CrossDos, instead of buying it from Consultron,
it would have been done "right".  I think it's more important for them to
supply IBM file system compatibility now, and make it look nice later, than
to wait until it's perfect.
--
bruce@zuhause.mn.org
Youth is wasted on the young.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 20:55:33 GMT

In article <38353@cbmvax.commodore.com> andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes:
>I don't believe Marc actually _uses_ the computers he posts about. 

   I have to admit, you are partially correct.  I use Macintosh software, but
I try to avoid Macintoshes.  Confusing?  Read on.

   Right in from of me (the machine I am typing on now) is an Amiga 3000
system with 130M of HD space, devided evenly between Macintosh and Amiga
partitions.  On the Amiga side I am running Amiga OS 2.1.  On the Mac side,
under A-Max, I am running System 7.0.1.  

   So, you are right in that I write about Macintosh software and don't use
Macintosh computers.  You are wrong in your assumption that I don't use 
Amigas, though.

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of another computer
is a kludge.  It has nothing to do with the AGA chipset." -- me
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:12:48 GMT

In <bruce.0ds9@zuhause.MN.ORG> bruce@zuhause.MN.ORG (Bruce Albrecht) writes:
>There is one, it's called fixicons, and it's on a Fish disk.

Hmm, I know an old tool of that name but which only resets the icon
position. I have a look.

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: John.Carver@launchpad.unc.edu (John Carver)
Subject: Re: a MB style flame against IBMs
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 01:57:31 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.011749.5205@msi.com> bill@west.msi.com writes:

>I think you are getting too specific in your comparisons.  MS-DOS and

Ok, you're right, I was, I agree.  But that's kind of the whole point. 
Although I agree that most people don't need or care about a tape:
device, when you need it, its not there.  I'm not really talking about
just tape devices.  Its so MANY things that turn up like this - you
just want to do something and think it would be simple, but its not,
really. The answer is almost always the same ... "well, we *could* do
it, if we just had..." but it turns out what we need isn't there and
many times isn't available in the public domain either.  I've now
searched 4 major MSDOS BBSs for a PD tape device, and managed to find
one, but it wasn't for the tape drive he has and wouldn't work with it
at all.

If I didn't run across so dratted many things where "most people don't
want that, so they didn't add it", I'd be more accepting of these
things.  Its kind of like, I want to do what *I* want to do, not what
the designers of the computer thought I should be doing.  As long as
you stay within the narrow bounds they set up, everything works out OK.
Kinda like the Mac, from that standpoint.  Windows 3.1, to me, smacks of
"design by commitee", where AmigaDos strikes me as something a bunch of
engineers sat down and came up with that would be powerful, extensible,
and elegant.  (The tape device for the amiga works with ALL tape
drives, as far as I know.  At least I've never heard of one where it
didn't work.  As far as I can tell, most things are this way - on
DOS/Windows they look *superficially* as good as AmigaDos, but when you
get down beyond the surface layer, it really isn't in the same league. )

Ok, I know Windows NT will be kind of what I want in an OS - powerful,
etc.  But at a price: the price is payed in loosing all my old AmigaDos
apps and multi-thousand dollar investment therein (and not having
replacements for quite a while), loosing many things I like from the
AmigaDos environment, and requiring gobs more disk space, memory, and
CPU cycles to do what I do new with few.  It'll have some features
AmigaDos hasn't got, and lack some AmigaDos has.  I dunno.  The jury's
still out on NT.  Maybe someday.  But one wonders what could have been
accomplished if the industry chose AmigaDos way back in 1985 instead of
MS-DOS.  Where could we be now, with the industry support the DOS would
has enjoyed?

John

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Deleting Directories Re: VistaPro & clones
Date: Mon,  4 Jan 93 18:07:17 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1993Jan4.153339.22764@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>
  <1993Jan4.205610.27828@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu>
  <1993Jan4.224102.2314@usl.edu>

>
>Look, I think this $99 'shell' the original poster ever-so-slyly misrepresente
d
>is the Norton Desktop for Windows.  It costs $99, deletes directories, and SHI
T
>LOADS
>more, TOO!
>
>Good grief, you people really though Windows users were SO depraved that they
>bought a directory-deleter for a hundred buck! Gimme a break!  
>
>-Dan
>.
>-- 
>Dan Stephenson   das9674@usl.edu 

Nope, it wasn't Norton Desktop. It was a new package whose sole purpose
is to delete Windows directories and subdirs and their contents, like
I said in my original posting, but which you seem unwilling to believe.
Unfortunately I can't quote you the Newsbytes article, because it's
expired off this site and I didn't save it. Didn't think I'd have to.
That'll teach me, huh. 

As far as people shucking out bucks for software, look at the companies
getting rich selling Mac screen blankers and other kinds of trivia that
usually show up for Amigas as p/d or shareware for a pittance. 

Harv
From: jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov (Jack Radigan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 7 Jan 1993 18:10:06 -0500
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Pomona, NJ
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: faatcrl.faa.gov

jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:

>:   Anyone who's had the pleasure of using OS/2 on a machine with 4Meg of
>: ram (and again with 8Meg or more) knows full well how much of a performance
>: penalty VM is.
>:

>That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.  Don't you relize that the
>minimal-RAM machine wouldn't run AT ALL without VM?

  You still don't get it, do you?

  Although 4Meg is the bare minimum for OS/2 by itself, loading it down with
several applications pushes the bare minimum up to 8, maybe 12Meg of ram, it
all depends on how large your swapfile gets to figure out if you're pushing
the system too much.  When that happens, you add more memory, which drops
the amount of memory swapping down.

>Blaming VM for the bad performance of a minimal-RAM machine is like blaming
>the bulletproof vest for the bruise you get when you get shot while wearing
>one.

  VM has its place, in the multiuser environment, on a single user system
though its value is minimal since you're rarely going to run into the kind
of peak loads that an MU system encounters.

  Even with that, a tuned MU system has enough core installed to keep memory
swapping to a mimimum during average loading.

  Sure, VM is something that's nice to have around, when you need it.  The
point is that you shouldn't need it too often.

  -jack-