From: mvishnu@bcr3.uwaterloo.ca (Meenan Vishnu)
Subject: Re: A ThEvaaram verse (translation)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 03:19:27 GMT

In article <9301241834.AA03614@cec2.wustl.edu> sp2@cec2.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian) writes:
>In a previous article, mvishnu@bcr3.waterloo.ca (Meenan Vishnu) writes:
>
>>>>>  `maasil veeNaiyum maalai madhiyamum
>>>>>   veesu  thenRalum veenkiLa vEnilum
>>>>>   moosu  vaNdaRai poykaiyum pOnRadhE
>>>>>   eesan  endhai  iNaiydai neezhalE. '
>>>
>
>>I am quite sure that I learned in school (Hinduism is a compulsory
>>subject in Sri Lanka for Hindu Tamils) that this song was sung my
>>thiru-naavukku-arasu alias appar.
>
>  So it is by appar..
>
>>As I indicated with a question mark, I do not know the meaning of 
>>moosu.  In colloquial Tamil (used in Jaffna) this word means heavy and noisy
>>breathing (especillay after a hard work or of an asthma patient).
>
>    This meaning for `moosu' is in colloquial Tamil in TN also..
>
>> Your interpretion of vaNdaRai as vaNdu + thuRai does not convince me.
>> Here are some wild guesses:
> 
>> moosu == lotus, (or any other water flower)
>> vaNdu == beetles, bees 
>> aRai == attract, surround
>> poykai == pond
>
>> So the line 'moosu vaNdaRai poykaiyum pOnRathE' could mean
>> Like a pond where (beautiful) lotus flowers attracts (or are surrounded by)
>> bees.
>
>   I think you have given the correct translation for `moosu vaNdaRai poykai'.

Here is one more try with higher probability of correctness

moosu ==  my pocket dictionary does not have this.  But it has 
          moosal.  One of the meaning given to moosal is moyththal.
          That is presence (esp of insects, bees etc)

vaNdu == bee, beetle etc

aRai == one of the meaning given in the dictionary is noise (Osai)

So the line could be 'A pond where noisy bees gather'  (Surprisingly
there is no mention of flowers).
          
>  I have heard this in a ThEvaarap pathikam ( Maanikka Vaasakar ? ) also :
>
>   `ariyodu piramarkku aLavaRi onnaan
>    nariyaik kuthirai aakkiya  nanmaiyum
>    aaNdukoNdu aruLa azhakuru thoruvadi
>    PaaNdian thanakku parimaa viRRu
>    eeNdu  kanakam isaiyap peRaadhu
>    aaNdaan enkOn aruLvazhi iruppa..'
>
>      ari  = Vishnu
>  piramar  = Brahma
>  aLavaRi  = size measurable
>   onnaan  = stood up

I think the words 'oN' 'ol' etc  means do, make, possible etc.

ollum, oNNum both means 'possible (to do)'
oNNathu means 'impossible (to do)'

I think VaLLuvar has a kuRaL 'ollum vaay olha...' (Wherever it is possible to
do, do! ...) 

Here oNNaan means '(he who is impossible (to do)'

It was impossible for both Vishnu and Brahma to measure Shiva.

(This is the version of Shaivaites.  The Vaishnavaites have quite a different
version of the set up.  They say that this Shiva foolishly gives boons to
all tom dick and harry and ends up in trouble and their Vishnu has to 
save him.  One story says that shiva gave a boon to an asura (bad guy)
a boon by which if he placed his hand over any one (be it god, human, etc)
then he/she/it would die.  As soon as the asura got this boon, he wanted 
to test it on Shiva.  Shiva ran for his life and came to Vishnu, who 
cleaverly averted Shiva's destruction.  Vishnu told the asura that Shiva
being powerless could not have given such a boon, and that if he was in doubt
he could see it by placing his hand over his head.  The asura did
as was asked and guess what, the asura died and once again Shiva was
saved)

Reading these stories, I can't help but come to the conclusion that
at one time or other, our ancestors intelligence must have been no 
more than that of a five year old child.

 
>
>ariyodu piramarkku aLavaRi onnaan = Siva, whose Viswarupa form was
>                                    unmeasurable by Vishnu and
>                                    Brahma in their fight who was
>                                    the superior.
>
>
>-SP.
>

I think our ancestors enriched our language by developing bakthi 
thoughts in our language more than in any other language.  Tamil
is rivaling Hebrew in the quantity (as well as quality) of 
devotional hymns  (evan after massive number of losses in the hands
of Skt. zealots).

Our duty at the moment, as Sornam Sankara wrote in ACT, is to develop
our language in Scientific and Rational thoughts.  Let Tamil have more
original works in these (as Bharathi requested).

Meenan Vishnu