HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: whs70@dancer.uucp (22501-sohl)
Newsgroups: ba.general,misc.kids,misc.legal
Subject: attractive nuisance, was..Re: East Bay Regional Parks/dog restrictions
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:40:25 GMT
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ

In article <1992Oct2.181324.18587@netcom.com> kudzu@netcom.com (Michael Sierchio) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.154058.29552@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> 
>	whs70@dancer.uucp (22501-sohl) writes:
>
>>The line is very clear.  It is (or should be) the line which marks
>>the boundary of my property.  Neighbor's kids do not belong on my
>>property....period!  
>
>You're entitled to your opinion, of course,  however misinformed.

I fully know my opinion doesn't necessarilly sync with many court
decisions in this area, it does not make my opinion misinformed, however.

>It's often the case that some particular person's notion of what is right
>differs from the law.  In which case you'd be doing yourself a favor to
>learn and accept what the law says.  It is seldom arbitrary and, in the
>case of Common Law, has existed since before there were lawyers.

I can learn what the law is, I do not have to accept it because I
make every effort to educate others to my opinion and if I can effect
legislation to change things I can and will.  Likewise, I doubt that
I would ever find for a plaintiff in such a trespassing situation 
if I was on a jury.  That is probably my ultimate goal or opportunity.

>You have certain very specific rights regarding your domicile, but your
>rights regarding the surrounding property are more restrictive. In some
>cases, you can limit access to your property, but you are also limited
>in the means you use to do so.  
>
>If you own a swimming pool, you have certain liabilities, just as you
>do in owning a motor vehicle -- if a pedestrian steps out in front of
>your car and you hit him unavoidably, breaking his legs, it's his fault
>and your liability.

Every pedestrian/vehicle incident does not automatically result in
the liability being assessed against the motor vehicle owner.  That
is probably true in no-fault states, but certainly wasn't always
that way, nor do I believe it is that way in all the states today.

Standard Disclaimer- Any opinions, etc. are mine and NOT my employer's.
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Bill Sohl (K2UNK) BELLCORE (Bell Communications Research, Inc.)
Morristown, NJ             email via UUCP      bcr!dancer!whs70
201-829-2879 Weekdays      email via Internet  whs70@dancer.cc.bellcore.com
Newsgroups: ba.general,misc.kids,misc.legal
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Subject: Re: East Bay Regional Parks/dog restrictions
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 04:52:47 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.235128.491@adobe.com> pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai) writes:

>The owner of the attractive nuisance is responsible for securing it.

According to whom?  I'm aware of the legal implications, but you're about
the last person I know who'd hide behind codified law to justify his
opinions.

From what *moral* perspective do you draw the right to impose your
personal values on responsibility onto others, and then subject them
to economic coercion to meet your personal agenda?

And what will you say to those who find handguns in the household
to be just as grave a danger as uncovered swimming pools, and insist
that you turn yours in?

-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
Newsgroups: ba.general,misc.kids,misc.legal
From: pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai)
Subject: Re: East Bay Regional Parks/dog restrictions
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 05:24:55 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.044838.12578@netcom.com> mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.235006.336@adobe.com> pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai) writes:
>>Blame is secondary. Death is primary.
>Meaning what?

Meaning that my concern is not over making it possible for the parents
of a child who dies in an unsecured pool to get rich. After someone
dies, it's too late. The idea is to prevent an accident. Unfortunately
the most effective means that has been found is to hold the owner
of the attractive nuisance responsible.

-- 
My opinions are my own.
Happy owner of a new Mitsubishi Expo.

Newsgroups: ba.general,misc.kids
From: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Subject: Re: training considered useful
Reply-To: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 28 Sep 92 02:46:28 GMT

Phil Ngai figures:
> You seem like the kind of person who...

Here's an idea, Phil.  If you can't or won't address my point, why not
attack me?  Maybe somebody will be impressed.

-- Jon
--
Jon Krueger  jpk@ingres.com
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Newsgroups: ba.general
Subject: Re: stupid consumers
Date: 4 Oct 92 04:28:34 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton

eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) wrote: 
->>Why not just buy products which work well, and thereby give the US
->>companies a reason to get off their asses instead of trying to get
->>by on their reputations, earned long ago when they didn't have any
->>real competition?
->>
->
->I think the fault lies in DC, where our companies are forced to 
->fight with their hands tied behind their backs. 
->The US gov't almost encourages imports, while japan heavily 
->discourages imports.

what has this got to do with anything?  if the imports are junk then
they won't succeed.

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
Newsgroups: ba.general,misc.kids
From: eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello)
Subject: Re: stupid consumers
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 01:10:03 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.065344.24182@odin.corp.sgi.com> pcd@otter.esd.sgi.com (Paul C. David) writes:
>In article <1992Oct3.013758.11004@leland.Stanford.EDU>, eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) writes:
>|> I have no problem with freedoms that you wish to take. But when we're 
>|> all getting economically taken advantage of, don't you think we should
>|> wake up.  I consider myself a good american, and I hate to see others
>|> destroy the country out of stupidity.
>|>  
>|> You talk about peace. I remember a professor with "Beyond War" or
>|> somesuch group saying a few years ago that their concern was not
>|> with the US/USSR cold war. They said that their concern was with
>|> the US/JAPAN economic condition. He said when a nation is 
>|> strangled by another (Fairly or unfairly), they tend to take
>|> things to the battlefront (as history has shown). Anyway, he
>|> said their primary concern (at that time) was this very subject.
>|> 
>|> Such an imbalance of trade cannot exist forever. Things won't
>|> stay this happy forever. 
>
>I don't think that you understand how what you say come across.  Your tipoff
>could be that no one has rushed to your aid :*).

I might not expect many to, givin that this is a local BB in the most
liberal part of the USA.

>
>My intent was to address the silliness of your "Love it or leave it"
>remark.  No doubt it was a purely emotional response.  I know you're
>not capable of personal attack.  Except when speaking of Japanese
>people.  But its OK ... unpopular views and insensitive racially
>oriented remarks are not a crime here.  You're not by chance a 
>proponent of the gentleman with the large ears are you?  I hesitate
>to mention him by name as he might misinterpret that as a 'yes'
>of sorts.
>

Well, I don't really endorse anyone.  But I can't stand that jerk
that cheated on his wife for twelve years, dodged the draft, and
smoked pot and NOW wants to be PRESIDENT of this land. 

I hate to mention him by name, but everyone knows who that SLEAZE is.



Newsgroups: ba.general
From: pedwards@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Paul N Edwards)
Subject: AVAILABLE TO HOUSESIT BETWEEN 10/15 AND 12/25
Organization: Stanford University CSLI
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 23:20:28 GMT


I'm a former Santa Cruz resident (9 years) who's just returned to
the Bay area as a visiting professor at Stanford. I'm looking for 
housesitting situations anywhere in the Peninsula area, for any duration
longer than two weeks, anytime between Oct. 15th and
Christmas. I'm clean, responsible, and good with plants and animals.
I'm trying to finish a book about the cultural and political
history of computers, so I mostly need a quiet desk and a coffeemaker.

Range: anywhere from Los Gatos to San Francisco, though the Palo Alto
area is best for me. Will also consider Santa Cruz and La Honda
areas.

Arrangements: I'll take care of your house, yard, plants, and animals,
take messages, and do anything else you need (within reason) in
exchange for a place to stay.

If you or anyone you know is taking a long vacation or leaving town
for a while, I'd appreciate a call.

My name is Paul Edwards. You can reach me in any of the following
ways:

voicemail 415-804-5952, theoretically toll-free
office phone 415-723-2780 
email pedwards@euphrates.stanford.edu

mail: Dept. of Computer Science
	Bldg. 460, Margaret Jacks Hall
	Stanford University
	Stanford, CA  94305

Newsgroups: ba.general
From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Subject: Re: East Bay Regional Parks/dog restrictions
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:16:57 GMT

In article 6998@transfer.stratus.com, leadfoot@bigbootay.sw.stratus.com (Mark Curtis) writes:

   [much deleted]

>Face it Phil, I'm not a public service to protect everyone else's child.
>I don't want them around, I told them to stay out, I told their parents
>that they weren't welcome, and that is as far as it goes.  Beyond that
>it is their parents who are their legal responsibility.  I didn't build
>a pool on public property, I didn't plant a tree in public property,
>and I don't want my yard to become their playground.  They have their
>own yards for that.  If they don't, their parents should move to a place
>proper for raising children.  If they're really that important to
>their parents they would move to a more suitable location.

In general, all of this is irrelevant.

You seem to think that you set the rules.  I'm sorry to tell you that this
is not the case.  Over the course of many years, the community (call it
society) has established rules of good conduct that are there to benefit
the community as a whole.  Sometimes (actually, pretty often) these rules
place obligations or constraints on individuals.

You don't have to agree with these.  If you fail to follow the laws (both
explicit and common) of the community, you will be corrected in one form
or another.

>Attitudes like your's only make me care less about your children.  Saying
>it doesn't matter what kind of damage, noise, trespassing, and liability
>you try to FORCE upon me goes way too far.  The more of that crap I hear
>the less I care.  They just become the little rug rats nextdoor who's
>parents think are more important than everyone else.  And the parents
>really don't care enough to control/supply their environment.  To justify
>this they declare their children exempt from all responsibility and state
>they're never at fault.  If you're exempting them you must pick up the
>responsibility you can't volunteer me.

Nobody says that parents are not responsible for their children.  But you
have an obligation and responsibility as well.  Whether you like it or
not.

>|> Fencing children in like animals is unacceptable.
>
>THEY ARE ANIMALS!

Self-centered folks who think that the world revolves around them, that 
their opinions are the only ones which matter, that express no concern
for the others in the community are relatively uncommon.  Society either
manages to compel them to conform, at least minimally, or places them
in confined areas where they fewer opportunities to damage the society.


---
Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141

Xref: sparky ba.general:4205 misc.kids:25235 misc.legal:18140
From: dcook@garnet.berkeley.edu (Dan Cook)
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles
Subject: Nice Roads - Mostly Nice Ride
Date: 1 Oct 1992 23:32:54 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: ba
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

I just wanted to let people know about a nice north bay ride
that I went on a few weeks ago... North up 80 to a little past
vallejo... Take the Suisun Road exit... this runs mostly up
to lake berryessa (sp?).. Beautiful sweeping roads with great
pavement and very little traffic! I was really amazed by how
nice the ride was and how few bikes were out on the road...

-uncle dan
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles
From: 928s4@leland.Stanford.EDU (Benjamin Sloss)
Subject: Enough of this DOD stuff
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: ba
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 18:18:28 GMT

  One of the things I really liked about ba.mc was that it maintained a high
signal-to-noise ratio, a property notable for its absence in rec.mc.  Now
we've had the first invasion of "I've got a DOD number and you don't 
hahahahahaha" and followup messages.  I'd like to plead with my fellow
posters to keep that sort of stuff over in rec. where everyone likes
to play those games.  This ba.mc board is a great place to exchange information
which is relevant to us locals; let's keep it that way, and not let it 
degenerate into another flame forum with a smaller distribution.

  Thank you for your attention.
-- 
Ben Sloss        Email: ben@osc.versant.com   Work: (415) 329-7500 x172
Quote:          "It's all fun and games until someone gets paid."
Transportation: '83 CB650SC (straight roads) '93 CBR 900RR   (twisty roads)
		'91 XR 250L (dirty    roads) '87 Mustang 5.0 (wet    roads)
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles
From: francis@csli.stanford.edu (Dude of Life)
Subject: MOTORCYCLE FOR SALE
Organization: CSLI, Stanford University
Distribution: ba
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 00:02:55 GMT

1980 Honda CX500 Custom with 28,000 miles
 
Solid working condition, well maintained.
Average to good cosmetically.
Has Vindicator windshield, great for highway.
Helmet included.
 
$500 obo.

contact Dave Francis @ 415-940-6766 (daytime)
or 408-255-3291 (evening) or reply to
francis@csli.stanford.edu
From: txd@ESD.3Com.COM (Tom Dietrich)
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Shoei X-8 Who has one?
Date: 30 Sep 92 14:43:44 GMT
Distribution: ba

alexb@sybase.com (Alex Burmester) writes:

>I have a RF200 and I was wondering if the wind noise is significantly
>different between the two shoei's.

>My particular problem is that I have a Seca II and I'm tall,  therefore the
>tiny windscreen deflects a whole lot of turbulence right at my neck which
>makes it sound like I'm inside a turbine engine at > 45mph.

Initially, I was a bit disappointed with the X-8. First, they run a
bit on the small side. I usually wear an XL, and I have to wear an XXL
in the X-8. While I'm on the Concours, the turbulance from the
windscreen runs right over the top of the helmet, causing a lot of
noise with the shield down. It's quiet when it's up??? Go figger. The
true nature of the problem became apparent  when I got he Sportster
running, and was greeted with the quietest helmet I've ever worn.


>If you send mail to alexb@sybase.com I should get it,  If you forward mail
>back along the path it came I might get it.

I'm assuming that you'll read it here in  the newsgroup.

*********************************************************************
'86 Concours.....Sophisticated Lady            Tom Dietrich             
'72 1000cc Sportster.....'Ol Sport               DoD # 055
^^^^^^^^^^^It *LIVES*!^^^^^^^^^^^^              AMA #524245
                                    Cool as a rule, but sometimes....
Two Jousts and a Gather, *BIG fun!*            (H. Lewis)
e-mail txd@Able.MKT.3Com.COM                   Ma Bell (408) 738-8301
Disclaimer: 3Com takes no responsibility for opinions preceding this.

*********************************************************************
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles,ca.driving
From: leslie@loki.Stanford.edu (leslie gordon)
Subject: plastic welding: was Cycle City
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: ba
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 18:10:55 GMT

A few weeks ago I said that I thought that Larry Randall Sr was still
plastic welding as a business. It turns out that I was wrong. He welded
my fairing for me as a favour after I crashed this summer, but he got
out of the business when he sold Cycle City. If anyone else needs some
plastic welding done, Santa Clara Cycle Salvage is now providing that
service as well as a few other shops in the area.

leslie

--
..if you really stop to think about it, Bambi is a parable of sexism,
nihilism, and despair, portraying absentee fathers and passive mothers
in a world of death and violence.
                                	-- Roger Ebert
From: dbc@po.cwru.edu (Dean Cookson)
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles
Subject: Re: eletric vests
Followup-To: ba.motorcycles
Date: 28 Sep 1992 05:36:37 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: ba
NNTP-Posting-Host: b62003.student.cwru.edu

In article <23629@sybase.sybase.com>, thorick@sybase.com (Thorick Chow)
wrote:
> 
> well, I was very satisfied with the vest, I was cool but alert
> rather than cold and sluggish...  worn between a T-shirt and
> a heavy flannel shirt, I was treated to a bath of conmforting warmth...
> I would guess that the morning temperature was probably 50.

You needed an electric vest for 50?  Hell, I've just closed the vents
in my concord by then. :-)  Seriously though, 50F means either a long
sleaved shirt under the leather jacket, or a t-shirt with the liner
snapped into the jacket and a pair of jeans (I just bought my first
set of leather pants this weekend).  You ba types must be spoiled just
like the LA types.  And all this time I thought it actually got cold
by the bay. :-)

> 
> 
> well, we'll see how it fares when the temperature gets into the
> 40s...
> 

Man, you'd HATE Cleveland.
> -t.c.
> 

| Dean Cookson / dbc@po.cwru.edu / 216 754-1834 | DoD #207  AMA #573534|
| Case Western Reserve U. Computer E. and Sci.  | KotNML  /  KotB      |
| "You can lead the house to order, but you     | '81 CB750C           |
| can't make it think"  -William Weld (Gov. Ma.)| '88 Bianchi Limited  |
From: leighann@spaghetti.sybase.com (Leigh Ann Hussey)
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Renfair
Date: 25 Sep 92 20:16:27 GMT
Organization: Decade of Destiny

Well, come hell or high water, *I'm* riding to the Renfaire this Sunday,
by myself if I have to.  Give me a call at 510-849-1970 if you're
interested in coming with.

	- Leigh Ann


----------------
Leigh Ann Hussey  leighann@sybase.com  DoD#5913  AMA#624549  AWRRA#23 (skidoo!)
'74 Honda CB360 "Fyrdraka"   			'81 Yamaha Maxim650 "Elhaz"
"And they ride, and they ride/ And the White Hounds run beside/ And they'll
seize the night and shake it by the throat."
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles
From: edg@netcom.com (Ed Greenberg)
Subject: Re: Enough of this DOD stuff
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 22:58:44 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: ba

In article <1a7qbqINN2do@fido.asd.sgi.com> danac@morc.asd.sgi.com (Dana Crom) writes:
>Ob Input:  If you are going south from San Jose to Gilroy or beyond, the old
>Monterey Highway is MUCH nice than 101.  Not twisty, but prettier, more to
>see, goes right through downtown Morgan Hill and Gilroy - doesn't take much
>longer, either. 101 is straight, bumpy, raingrooved, and ugly till you get
>down past Gilroy a ways.  Get onto Monterey Highway in southern San Jose
>at Blossom Hill Road or Bernal Road - it rejoins 101 just south of Gilroy.
>
How about Uvas Road from the south end of Almaden Road.  It takes you
past the Uvas Reservoir and comes out on 152, just west of Gilroy.  From
there you can go west to Watsonville and the coast, or east to Gilroy
and pick up 101.  Nice alternative to 101 or Monterey Hwy.
-- 
Ed Greenberg 		| Home: +1 408 283 0511 | edg@netcom.com
P. O. Box 28618		| Work: +1 408 764 5305 | DoD#: 0357
San Jose, CA  95159	| Fax:  +1 408 764 5003 | KM6CG (ex WB2GOH)
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist on Skyline Blvd. (10/4/92, 1:30p)
Date: 7 Oct 1992 00:58:03 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Oct6.033513.19829@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com> bushnell@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (William D. Bushnell) writes:
[Sorry saga of big Hog vs. small bicycle deleted]

>Except for those with overly noisy exhaust systems, I'm usually not bothered by
>motorcycles.  Since they're narrower than autos, there's usually enough room
>for a motorcycle to pass a bicycle safely.

This reminds me of one of my favorite scenarios, which I think should be 
addressed in the DMV motorcycle supplement, or something:

                                  <-downhill
                             _----------------
     steep dropoff,   -->  /         < M
     no shoulder         /     
                        |     ^ / ------------
                        |  ^  B | blind 
                        |  C    | corner
                        |       |
                        |       |

        M: Our heroic motorcyclist.
        B: An otherwise innocuous bicyclist on a recreational ride.
        C: An idiotic cager, obstructing the oncoming lane while 
           trying to pass the slow-moving bicyclist around a blind
           corner, and looking at the bicyclist instead of where 
           he/she is going.


This used to happen to me all the time.  Usually what happened in my case
was I would see the bicyclist, slow down and move to the outside of the lane
(once I learned about the hazard of this situation), and sure enough, a 
car would come barreling around the corner all the way into my lane--at the
last moment, the cager would see me, and swerve sharply to the right.  I 
don't know how many bicyclists I saw almost wiped out by this clever
manuever.

Of course, this is when the bicyclist gets around the corner first. 
Otherwise, there's no warning, and everybody concerned gets to cash in major
karma points.

My question is this:  is there a proper procedure for the scenario?  Or is
it just a matter of blind luck?


-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu