HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Heavy Rains in Iowa?
Date: 26 Sep 92 22:32:55 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <3931@phred.UUCP> mattp@phred.UUCP writes:
> In article 122200150@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM, rogerm@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Roger Mitchell) writes:
> >With today's diesel locomotives if the water is over the rail head they can't
> >be operated.
> 
> So why is that?  What is it about the wheels being in water that prevents
> the unit from operating?  I realize that if the traction motors get submerged
> the loco obviously won't work, but wouldn't it be possible to operate if the
> water were just "slightly" above the railheads?  Just how low are the traction
> motors slung on the trucks, anyways?

The traction motors are between the axles on the same vertical centerline.
They are not tiny, roughly 24-30 inchs tall, with the your normal wheels
being some inches larger in diameter.

So yes, you could run in water just slightly higher than the railheads.  Of course
the potential damage is much greater than the steam locomotive, where at worst
you crack a few grate bars if the water starts splashing around - since most fire
boxes are above the axle centerline (of much larger wheels) or at least have a
couple feet of ashpan under them.

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: Nigel.Allen@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Nigel Allen)
Subject: Re: garbage trains, money trains, and other novelties for out of towners.
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 11:27:16 GMT


Toronto's subway has garbage trains (or at least one garbage train, anyway),
for the same reasons that the New York subway does. It starts its run
while regular subway trains are still running. It's an aluminum car (all
Toronto's revenue subway cars are aluminum now; the original, red
Gloucester cars were sold to Lima, Peru, I think) with circular windows.
The plastic garbage bags have TTC printed on them, possibly to discourage
TTC employees from taking them home. 

There's some other work equipment that I haven't seen except in
photographs. I think at least one piece of subway work equipment was
rebuilt from a PCC streetcar.


Fare collections are picked up by an armored truck, not by a subway car.

On the surface, the most visible piece of work equipment for the TTC's
streetcars is the rail grinding car, which is bright yellow. As the name
suggests, it grinds the rails to eliminate corrugation in them.


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Subject: Re: Trains Magazine
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:02:31 GMT


MORE ON MAGAZINE ARROGANCE

I would like to add a few more thoughts to my previous
posting.  I got so carried away that these got lost 
until after I hit the send key.

What most often irks me about magazines is the attitude
displayed in print by RAIL MODEL JOURNAL.  The claim
that they are the "state of the art" magazine, whatever
that means in the real world.  It can't mean editorially,
because their proof reading is terrible and they frequently
print how-to photos upside down.  What I get from this term
is that they are the only magazine for serious model
railroaders, and that every other magazine is for people
who play with trains.  Looking down your nose at people 
who don't shave the moulded ladders off their Athern cars
is petty.  More power to those who do upgrade their cars,
but not everyone has the time or skill.  We are here to
relax and have fun.  No matter how much research and 
effort we do or do not put into a model, we are all still
*gasp* playing with trains.

Now on the plus side, I do buy RMJ, and drive nearly 70
miles each way to do it every month.  It is the best 
source yet for freight car lettering, and frequently has
other interesting articles.  I only wish they would be a
bit more humble.

~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,rec.models.railroad
From: dawdy@tellabs.com (Dan Dawdy)
Subject: New Set of GIF's Posted
Originator: dawdy@sunk13
Organization: Tellabs, Inc., Lisle, IL
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 13:23:59 GMT

Three new pictures have been posted to
alt.binaries.pictures.misc.  They include a shot of the trackage
you are faced with as you enter Chicago's Union Station.  Also
two Southern Pacific freights (Same train number, two sections)
heading north into Chicago as they cross the diamonds in Joliet,
IL.

*******WARNING*******WARNING*******WARNING*******WARNING*******

If you like bright sunny pictures with new clean shinny engines,
don't bother to download these pictures.  If you like early
morning, gritty, smokey, realism, the SP GIF's are for you :-)

As always, if someone can move these to a FTP site, please do. 
If you can't get these from the net, I will mail them out, just
send a quick note to me.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
File Name.....CHIUNION.GIF
Resolution....792x524x256
Size..........314,800
Description..:
               This is the scene which greets some Amtrak and
Metra engineers as they round the bend and head into Chicago's
Union Station.  Looking North from the Roosevelt overpass.  (I
would love to see you "N" scaler's hand lay this mess :-)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
File Name.....SSW_7781
Resolution....786x533x256
Size..........247,704
Description..:
               Railroading the old fashion way as seen in Joliet,
IL in August of 1990.  Written orders being handed from Metra
tower person to a Southern Pacific brakeman.  Cotton Belt #7781,
GE B30-7 heads up the freight.  Note the semaphore signals in
background.  This is the first section of this train with the
second section following 10 minutes behind.  See SP_7828.GIF
which is the following section.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
File Name.....SP_7828.GIF
Resolution....
Size..........
Description..:
               Early morning shot of Northbound Southern Pacific
freight pass under the semaphores in Joliet, IL.  With smoke
pouring out of the GE B30-7 the train makes it's way over the
diamonds at a breath taking 10 MPH.  Since this photo was taken
in August of 1990 the SP has improved track on this stretch of
trackage.  This train is following the SSW_7781.GIF by 10 minutes
and is considered it's second section.
-- 
************************************************************************
  |\\                                   *
  |  \ \                                *   Internet: 
  J    \ \         --------|            *      dawdy@tellabs.com
         \ \     / [] ZORRO|            *   Compu$erve:
           \ \  |  ||      |            *      70661,2422
             \ \|  ||      |            *
               =============            *        "O" Scale
     ____________()______()__________   *       King of Scales
   The painters last day on the job :-) *
From: macman+@pitt.edu (Dennis H Lippert)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: national railroad boxcar pool
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:40:15 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

The "National Railroad Boxcar Pool" - commonly known as RailBox, is a 
subsidiary of the Trailer Train corp (now TTX Inc.) It was formed in
1974... and it's purpose was twofold:

(1) Boxcars were becoming terribly shabby, but nobody wanted to buy 
new ones.

(2) Boxcars were the most "general" type of car, and yet they ran 
empty nearly 50% of the time.

The reason for #2 is the "per-diem" charges on freight cars.  Say railroad
A owns a boxcar.  They fill it at an on-line shipper, and send it to the
destination on railroad B.  Railroad B has to pay $x to railroad A for
every day that the car is on B's property. It is much more efficient for
B to send the car to another shipper for loading, but it's cheaper to just
send it back empty (unless heading back to a destination on railroad A).

RailBox was formed by "most" of the major railroads to create a "free pool"
of boxcars, which could be loaded and sent anywhere without undue Per Diem
charges.  I.e. a car can go from railroad A to B to C to A to D etc.
without any charges, and without having to go "home" in between runs.

At the same time, a bunch of shortlines bought new boxcars, with the 
single purpose of getting the per-diem money.  The were referred to
as "incentive per diem" cars (IPD), and were generally the same type of
car as the railbox, and also were run anywhere... but at a cost.

At the time, nice boxcars were in demand, so the railroads used them.
Rumor was that a few of the shortlines that owned the cars wouldn't
be able to fit them all on their own tracks!

As the 80's appraoched, the per-diem system laws were changed, and 
intermodal traffic largely replaced boxcars for general merchandise.
Railbox sold a large number of cars, and most of the shortline fleets
dried up also.

-Den
-- 
===============================================================================
Dennis Lippert   -   macman+@pitt.edu or macman@vm2.cis.pitt.edu
The "Mac Maniac" operator at the Hillman Research Lab - Univ. of Pittsburgh
"All comments are mine, you'd look like a fool if *you* used them"
From: brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: NYC color-coding, again (was Re: Chicago Rapid Transit reference.)
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:20:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Sep30.172044.9268
Reply-To: brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan)
Organization: Columbia University

I was actually thinking of posting all the letter and number codes
that have been used on the New York subway, but it would be quite a
research project, so let me just put up this list of the "original"
meanings, and leave the rest to the reader.  The letter code
originated with the IND in 1932, using A-H only, with single letters
for express and double letters for local.  It was expanded to the BMT
about 1964, displacing a number system that had not been used on all
trains anyway.  The number code for the IRT dates to about 1948 and
never used doubling for locals.

A   8th Ave--Washington Heights
B   6th Ave--Washington Heights
C   8th Ave--Concourse
D   6th Ave--Concourse
E   8th Ave--Queens
F   6th Ave--Queens
G   Brooklyn-Queens Crosstown
H   Fulton St.
S   Special

I   unknown
J   Broadway El--Jamaica
K   unknown, possibly Broadway El--Canarsie.  used for various things.
L   14th St--Canarsie
M   Myrtle Ave El
N   Broadway--Sea Beach
O   unknown, possibly Culver or Franklin
P   unknown, possibly Culver or Franklin
Q   Broadway--Brighton Beach
R   Broadway--Fourth Ave
S   Special (old IND code)
T   Broadway--West End
U   unused?  
V   unused?  Seen in post-1968 2d Ave subway drawings.
W   unused?  Seen in post-1968 2d Ave subway drawings.
X   unused?
Y   unused?  Seen in post-1968 2d Ave subway drawings.
Z   unused?  later a variant of J.

1   7th Ave--Broadway
2   7th Ave--Bronx
3   7th Ave--Lenox
4   Lexington Ave--Jerome
5   Lexington Ave--White Plains
6   Lexington Ave--Pelham
7   Queens--Flushing
8   unknown, probably Queens--Astoria.  later 3d Ave El.
9   Dyre Ave shuttle, known from roll signs.  later a variant of 1.


--Joe Brennan
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ehr@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Ernest H. Robl)
Subject: Re: locomotive cables
Summary: cables and hoses
Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 02:04:30 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.230814.944@ulysses.att.com>, smb@ulysses.att.com (Steven Bellovin) writes:
> What are all those cables at the ends of modern locomotives?
> 
> Let me be precise...  I've often seen the three cables on either side
> of the coupler referred to as MU cables.  Fair enough, but I've sometimes
> seen four on each side.  (For example, see the back cover of the very
> latest (October '92) Railpace.)  But if those are MU cables, what are the
> larger, multi-pin sockets above and on either side of the coupler?  Again,
> there's a good example on the back cover of the current Railpace, which
> even shows what appears to be a loopback connector between the two.  One
> thought I had was HEP pass-through, but I've seen 'em on engines I'd assume
> were dedicated freight units, such as Conrail GP-38's.


The multi-pin cables are indeed for MU-ing multiple locomotives --
allowing a variety of functions to be controlled on trailing units
from the control stand of the lead locomotive.  Because of the 
problems of either not having a cable available when one was needed
(or was faulty) or having the ends get clogged up with debris, most
modern diesels have MU cables semi-permanently attached -- with 
the other end plugged into a dummy connector when not it use.  The
latter both keeps the end from dragging and from accumulating dirt.

The rest of what you are talking about are AIR HOSES.  The big hose
under the coupler is the main train line for the train air brakes.
Trains actually have two brake systems -- one for the train, the
other for the engines.  The air brakes on the engines are normally
not used, except in emergencies and when a set of engines is 
operating light (without any cars).  This cuts down on the wear on
both the engine wheels and brakes.

The smaller air hoses are used to operate the brakes for the 
engines -- both to actuate the brakes and to balance the air
pressure in the engine reservoirs (for example if an engine is off-
line and its compressor is not running).

Finally, one of the air connections can be used between the engine
and specially-equipped cars to actuate equipment.  For example, there
are side-dump (tilt) and other cars which have their dumping 
mechanism actuated by compressed air.  These cars, which must run
right behind the engine, have an extra air hose, which is connected
to one of the hoses on the engine.

As far as I know, the hoses on either side of the coupler are
symmetrical, and between two units only one set of hoses needs to be
connected, though often both sets are used.

-- Ernest
-- 
"My other computer is a Nikon N8008." -- Ernest H. Robl
Ernest H. Robl (ehr@ecsvax)  Durham, NC, USA   +1  919   286-3845
                                         FAX:  +1  919   286-1696
This .signature exceeds plate C specifications (for rec.railroad fans)
From: sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu (Sandy F. Smith, Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: NYC color-coding, again (was Re: Chicago Rapid Transit reference.)
Date: 29 Sep 92 21:19:27 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <RABIN.92Sep26174501@epic.CS.Yale.Edu>, rabin@CS.Yale.Edu (Dan Rabin) writes:
> 
> There was an 8-train in New York City.  It was the remaining Bronx
> portion of the Third Avenue El.  I have a subway map of the former
> color scheme (colors for routes) on which it is present.  The line
> died before the new maps were made.  
> 

Actually, every NYCTA subway map since the current color-coding scheme was
adopted in the early 1980's shows a Bronx bus route (I think it's the Bx55),
which runs along Third Avenue from 149 St-3 Av subway station to Gun Hill
Road (?), in the same red color used for the IRT West Side (#2) service
with which it connects, and the map indicates that a transfer from the subway
to that bus route is free.  (Look for the dotted red line in the Bronx.)

As for the H (or HH), somehow I recall that on that abstract wonder of a 
subway map the TA used in the 1970's, the line was magenta, but my memory
often plays tricks on me...

WRT the unused letters/numbers:  I don't recall there ever being an "I"
train, either, for reasons similar to the lack of an "O" train (i.e., possible
confusion with the IRT #1).  As for the 2 Av subway (R.I.P.), as the TA
assigned the next letters in sequence to the ex-BMT lines, who knows?
BTW, how was this line to connect with the rest of the IND system?
What outer-borough services would have hooked up to it, and where?

**************************************************************************
Sandy F. Smith, Jr. ____________________________ sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu
Graduate Division, School of Arts and Sciences, University of Pennsylvania
16 College Hall, Philadelphia, PA 19104-6378.  (Opinions mine, not Penn's)
 
"The God I serve don't make no trash!"
      -- Rev. Emanuel Cleaver, Mayor, City of Kansas City, Mo.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Subject: Re: Trains Magazine
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:44:25 GMT

MAGAZINE ARROGANCE

I have to second Mr. Harper's comments about arrogance
among editors in both their attitudes and their choice
of materials.  I think that most of the magazines tend
to reflect the lines closest to their geographical
home.  Yes, MODEL RAILROADER does tend to focus on
midwestern lines, but RAILROAD MODEL CRAFTSMAN tends
to be heavily slanted toward New Jersey/New York/
Pennsylvania.  This may in part be because their photo
files were built by staffers shooting local lines.  
The magazines' staffs and contribution networks were
built around personal friendships with the authors.
This tended to foster a regional following which has
eroded as new staffers came aboard and new contributors
rose to prominence, but still has some vestiges in
article selection.  MR and RMC are not the only 
magazines that suffer from this.  RAIL MODEL JOURNAL
leans heavily toward Colorado, for example.  In some
ways this can be a good thing, because fans of 
particular regions can get better coverage of their
favorite area in one magazine, but too much makes a
magazine lopsided.  One should also consider that 
railfanning and model railroading, for both historic, 
demographic and cultural reasons, has tended to have
certain centers.  Los Angeles and San Francisco, New
York, Chicago and Milwaukee come to mind as hotbeds
of interesting train action, which in turn stimulates
both prototype train fanning and model railroading in
those areas.  By contrast, Virginia and much of the
south has lagged behind these other interest centers.
Just look at the number of hobby stores in Southern
states that advertize in MR or RMC, compared to other
areas.  There are probably more advertising shops in
the Los Angeles or New York City areas than in any
one of the Southern states.  With such concentrations
of interest, and there both contributing authors and
readers, it should not be a surprise that magazine
editors cater to readers in these areas.  I suppose it
is similar to the logic that drives model manufacturers
to bring out locomotives lettered for SP, ATSF, BN and
UP, sometimes to the exclusion of other roadnames.  
These are the ones that will sell.

Any other thoughts?

~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Transporting helicopters on flatcars
Date: 29 Sep 92 12:11:49 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia



SHIPPING HELICOPTERS

According to the military manuals I researched for my
earlier responses, the Army's usual method of shipping
helicopters is by air.  When trucks are used, they must
have a soft-ride suspension.  No policies for rail 
shipment have been formulated, and it probably isn't
often done.  Our previous poster doesn't indicate if
the helos he saw were military or civilian.

~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
From: PLAWS@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU (Peter Laws)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Texas TGV mailing list???
Date: 2 Oct 1992 11:25:50 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Subj: about says it all.  Any leads?  Paper mailing list is "OK".

================================================================================
Peter Laws            |"The '90s are gonna make the '60s|    pcl@engr.uark.edu
n5uwy@ka5bml.ar.usa.na| look like the '50s"--D. Hopper  | plaws@uafsysb.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: sgard@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (sanford.gardner)
Subject: Re: NYC color-coding, again (was Re: Chicago Rapid Transit reference.)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 12:33:26 GMT
Summary: some more letter codes

In article <1992Sep30.172044.9268@news.columbia.edu>, brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan) writes:
> I was actually thinking of posting all the letter and number codes
> that have been used on the New York subway, but it would be quite a
> research project, so let me just put up this list of the "original"
> meanings, and leave the rest to the reader.  The letter code
> originated with the IND in 1932, using A-H only, with single letters
> for express and double letters for local.  It was expanded to the BMT
> about 1964, displacing a number system that had not been used on all
> trains anyway.  The number code for the IRT dates to about 1948 and
> never used doubling for locals.

From the Feb 1978 NYCTA Map (when train routes still had names, rather
than numbers/letters only); the items in () are the original BMT
route numbers.
 
> B   6th Ave--Washington Heights
      Became the 6th Av-West End Exp/Lcl (Coney Is. to 168th St, WH)
> 
> I   unknown
> J   Broadway El--Jamaica  (15)
      there was also a B'way Bklyn Short Line (14) that ran from
      Bway Jct (or Canarsie) to Nassau St. Man.
> K   unknown, possibly Broadway El--Canarsie.  used for various things.
  K   6th Ave-Bway Bklyn; ran from Bway Jct to 57th & 6th Av, Man via
      IND-BMT connector link at Delancy St.
> L   14th St--Canarsie  (16)
> M   Myrtle Ave El  (10)
> N   Broadway--Sea Beach  (4)
  NX  An experiment that failed. Trying to attract riders off the 
      heavily loaded Brighton line, the TA had a service that started at
      Brighton Beach Station, made all stops to Stillwell Ave. From
      Stillwell, the the train used the Sea Beach center (exp) tracks
      to 59th St/4 th Av. From there, the train followed the normal
      Sea Beach schedule/route in Manhattan. Suffice to say, the riders
      didn't go for this train route in a big way.
> O   unknown, possibly Culver or Franklin
      Culver Line (7; marker on the Model D Tri-plex units when 
                      they were used)
> P   unknown, possibly Culver or Franklin
> Q   Broadway--Brighton Beach
  Q   What should have been the Bway-Brighton Beach Exp, but was actually
      the QB (Brighton Exp. via Bridge)
      The QT (Brighton Lcl. via Tunnel) ran from BB to 57th/7th Av.
      Later, the QJ (Brighton Lcl) from BB to Bway Jct via Nassau St.
> R   Broadway--Fourth Ave  (2, I think)
> S   Special (old IND code)
> T   Broadway--West End  (3)
> Z   unused?  later a variant of J.
> 
> 
> --Joe Brennan
>
Sanford Gardner    AT&T Bell Labs  (908)582-6046    sgard@mhnmc.att.com

no .sig yet, but working on it 
From: wbrill@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Warren Brill)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:39:42 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Penna. Turnpike
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA