HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.climbing

In rec.climbing, bsbarron@eos.ncsu.edu (BRADFORD SCOTT BARRON) writes:

> 
> You are forgetting the most important substance: liquid.

I agree.

> For those who dislike drinking anything resembling antifreeze and still
> want to replentish their electrolytes, a 50% fruit juice mixture will do
> just as well as gatorade or any of those other toxic drinks.  
> 
> As far as food, you want high energy (glucose and fat) foods for short,
> grunting
> sport climbs.  For longer climbs involving endurance, cut down on fats and 
> eat high carbohydrate foods.  By the way, granola is available in 
> normal (i.e. high fat) and fat-free varieties.  It thus makes a good snack
> and tastes 10,000 X better than Powerbars.

Yikes, where did you get your degree in nutrition?  This is a joke right?
Fat is dense with calories but they are not released easily.  You DON'T want
to eat fatty foods during or just before intense exercise.

As for liquids - water is great, "toxic sport" drinks are a little better.
Studies have shown that those special drinks are absorbed more quickly than
plain water.  Watered down fruit juices are good, but they should be less
than 50% juice for best absorption.

My own routine at the rocks:

1) Drink small amounts VERY often.  It's very hard to drink to much.  I use
   water or sport drinks.

2) Eat small amounts often.  Stuffing a big PB&J sandwich in your stomach in
   one sitting will definitely slow you down.  Your digestive system diverts
   blood to do its work.
   I eat foods with almost no fat, low protein, and high carbs - Powerbars,
   bananas, apples, bagels.
   Candy bars, cheese, granola bars, even most granola is high in fat.

3) When climbing consecutive days I make sure I do everything possible to
   recover at night:  re-hydrate as fast as possible, eat plenty of carbs
   and protein, stay warm or cool as needed, and drink a dark German beer!

Mort
From: eric@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Hirst)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Food to take on climbs
Date: 14 Oct 92 01:24:55 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn) writes:

>as opposed to a one-pitch sport route) ... he said he was afraid
>that they would collapse if they ran out of candy bars.  

No joke.  Having run out of candy bars myself, I know how serious the
water/energy/blood sugar issues can be.  Different "fuels" seem to work
differently for different people in different situations.  PowerBars
and Gatorade may or may not be enough for that whopper of a climb.
There are a lot of dense foods to experiment with, and each climber must
learn what works for her/himself before committing to a given serious
endeavor.  In addition to carbo/sugar/protein/fat/water/electrolyte intake,
consider sleep, altitude, heat, cold, maximum exertion during extreme
moments (eg. gripping strenuous leads), . . .  the whole she-bang.

Two relevant anecdotes:
***********************

On a car-to-car ascent of Dragontail this summer (3 hrs sleep, ~5500 ft
of total vertical, ~1600 ft of 3rd-5th class rock, ~13 miles of horizontal,
coffee, donuts, powerbars, Gatorade, a hardboiled egg or two), I was very
happy to be back on the maintained trail and feeling fine as we watched a
beautiful sunset.  But about 3 miles from the trailhead, hiking out with
headlamps, I "bonked" and was only able to continue by taking frequent 5
minute naps in the middle of the trail.  When we finally reached the car,
I joyously woofed down milk and burritos, but was unable to consume a single
Chips Ahoy cookie without extreme distress.  Lesson: balance out that sugar
with some real food next time, and get some sleep.

On a car-to-car Enchantments traverse with a climb of Prusik Peak thrown in
several years ago, (~5000 ft vertical, ~500 ft 3rd-5th class rock, ~20 miles
horizontal), a friend of mine hit the wall with about 2 hours of light and
10 miles of groomed trail to go.  His partner gave him an amphetamine, and
they charged like banshees to the trailhead.  After they reached the car,
he collapsed into a complete and miserable heap of shit, one that wished it
had never been extruded.  Lesson: don't get your ropes stuck on Prusik, and,
well, the amphetamine may have saved his butt after he bit off more than
he could chew.

Tips on foods/drinks to bring on climbs can be handy, but you really need
to figure out first hand what works for YOU and what doesn't.

Eric Hirst
eric@u.washington.edu
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska)
Subject: Re: Lubricating Cams
Organization: VEXCEL Corporation, Boulder CO
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 18:33:35 GMT

In article <ld6u10INNj0v@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand) writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.161530.23917@hellgate.utah.edu> allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:
>>gustave@ada.seas.ucla.edu (Gustave R. Stroes) writes:
>>>I was wondering if anyone out there has any advice on what
>>>to use to lubricate the various moving parts on climbing
>>>equipment (carabiners, cams etc.).
>>
I was told to use isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol.  Not only does it
evaporate, so that it doesn't atract dirt, but it helps away colected
sand and dirt, which dry lubricators probably won't.

-- 

		dingo in boulder	(dean@vexcel.com)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: george@windslc.seri.gov (George Scott)
Subject: Re: A social commentary about "climbers" vs. "People who climb (or play like it)"
Reply-To: george@windslc.nrel.gov
Organization: Colorado State Reformatory for Young Hussies and Trollops
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 19:40:27 GMT

rawl@lhotse.ucar.edu () writes:

>Let's face it.  Most of the population of climbing homosapiens belong to the 
>"climbing public", as that geek Alison Osius at CLIMBING calls them.  These are
>the people who climb in the gym and the safe, warm sport climbs (play climbing)
>...
> (rest of tirade against 'beautiful people' omitted)

Gee, what depth of feeling. It must have been quite a traumatic experience that
brought this outpouring of emotion to the surface - surely something much worse
than reading the latest Climbing or R&I. Care to share the story with us?

>--Rawl Stenson 
   ^^^^ Are you the fellow who makes those 'Rawl' bolts?

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
George N. Scott                         EMAIL: george@nrel.gov
Wind Research Program (formerly SERI)   VOICE: 303-231-7667
National Renewable Energy Laboratory    1617 Cole Blvd., Golden, CO  80401-3393
From: bruceb@roadrunner.denver.sgi.com (Bruce Bailey)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: OW was Overhangs
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:22:07 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.


Eugene agrees that Mort may benifit from "treatment".  In addition to 
"please sir, may I have another?" I must warn you that full "treatment"
includes ego-destruction/rebuilding, e.g., I did a route in the Splatte
last week that had a "5.8+" first pitch (for those of you interested, the
route is 'The Sandwich' on the Knight), and a second pitch rated "5.9+".
On the first pitch I was completely at my limit (gear was mostly big-bros
and #4 Camalots!), and had the pitch not ended when it did, I would have been
air-born.  My partner who has been climbing for years, and "can climb 5.11"
could not follow the pitch!

I guess that is why the first pitch was rated 5.8+ and not merely 5.8!!!!
"it was a bit hard for a 5.8".  Anyway, turns out the 2nd pitch handcrack
went easier at 5.9+!!!!

So whaddya say Mort?  Ready to regress back to floundering on 5.8??

Bruce Bailey (Dr. OW)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: bruceg@Cadence.COM (Bruce Gustifson)
Subject: Re: <None>
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 19:24:53 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.071814.59226@cc.usu.edu> sinclair@cc.usu.edu (Bob Sinclair) writes:
>When you push the hold onto the wall, wobble it around a little so the 
>glue gets into all the little nooks and crannies. 
                               ^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^^ 
  Has anyone tried english muffins as artificial holds? I would
think they would have a large surface area to hold it in place!
>
>Hope this is useful,
>Bob
>
>bobs@biocat.ncdmf.usu.edu                           bob the alien.
>
From: dak@biosys.apldbio.COM (David Knorr)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: isopropyl for cleaning cams?
Date: 9 Oct 92 15:03:06 GMT
Distribution: usa
  Just  an additional  comment  regarding the use   of isopropanol for
Organization: Applied Biosystems, Inc., Foster City, CA

little spacers between the cams of my Friends.  However, it's possible
the plastic may be  one of those that is  fairly  resistant.   Anybody
know what kind of plastic is used for spacers in camming devices?

Dave Knorr


Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: climbing helmets
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:13:05 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.160921.4005@Cadence.COM>,
bruceg@Cadence.COM (Bruce Gustifson) writes:
>  The 1 experience I had where I wish I had been wearing a helmet while leading
>was on a route that traverses over a cave on thin holds. When I fell, I went
>over the lip of the overhang and swung into the cave, bashing my brain into
>the rock and getting cut in the process. Not fatal, but the end of that day.
>
A few years ago I went to a slide presentation by John Dill who
heads up search and rescue for the NPS at Yosemitee.  I recall that
on the subject of helmets he had mixed feelings.  Yes they *could*
provide some extra saftey, but over a number of years (I think he
said 10) he had only seen a few (again I can't recall the exact
figure but it was less than 5) where a helmet made a life or death
difference.  He cited a somewhat higher but not immensly higher
figure for serious/permant vs. minor injuries.  In all cases
rockfall was the issue.  Appearently the helmets don't help much in
preventing injury when falling on ones head -- I guess the forces
are just too great.

I remember also from my motocycle days reading reports by Bell the
helmet mfgr that emphasised that helmets DONOT prevent injuries,
they only reduce them.  They really tried to impress consumers not
to put too much reliance on them.  Note that these helmets are
massive one-time crush type helmets which are much much heavier than
anything a climber might wear.  A sobering thought, if I recall
correctly, is that Bell claimed that resilient (i.e., the kind that
bounce back to their original shape) padding was not very effective
in absorbing impact forces.
From: belyaev@eldpa.epfl.ch
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Climbing in Tien Shan
Date: 14 Oct 92 08:22:53 GMT
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne

The gpoup of Russian semiprofessional alpinists from Moscow invites to
take part in unique expedition to Tien Shan. It will be climb on Hantengry
or Pobeda Peaks the highest peaks in Tien Shan. (Pobeda Peak(24406 ft)).
The expedition will take about two weeks with stop in Moscow. 

For more information, please contact:

Prof. Eugene Moscovets
Institute of Spectroscopy, RAS
142092 Troitsk, Moscow Region, Russia
fax +7-(095)-3340886
e-mail  lls@isan.msk.su
From: calum@ivy.clu.cf.ac.uk (Calum Gordon)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Longs peak,CO ?
Date: 12 Oct 92 15:17:37 GMT
Reply-To: Calum Gordon <calum@clu.cf.ac.uk>
Organization: Computational Linguistics Unit, Univ of Wales College of Cardiff
Posting-Software: GNUS: NNTP-based News Reader for GNU Emacs

mntneer@ccvax.ucd.ie writes:
  
 >Has anybody been up Longs peak in Colorado lately? 
 >I attempted an expedition on
 >September 23rd but on arriving at the keyhole was left with no alternative 
 >but to give up my attempt due to things such as lack of time, uncomfortable
 >feelings about the route and so on. I never found out if the route was
 >technical or not or if there was a simpler route to the peak. Back home now I
 >itch for information on the mountain and would welcome any news.
  
 >Alan O'Brien.
  
 >University College Dublin Mountaineering Club.

I went up twice in '89 while summering in Estes Park, once by the
Keyhole route, the second time over Meeker. Keyhole route is
non-technical and is basically a (strenous) hike, only immediate
danger being that of rock-fall, especially on the steep gully (is it
called the "Trough" or something, before the Narrows (only bit of
route with any exposure). I thought it was quite an easy climb but I
had been living at 9000ft. for several weeks (at LPI) and so was
acclimatised. Mind you, a few days after I'd been up a body was found
on the mountain and the following week a friend of mine couldn't
progress thru' the keyhole due to gale-force winds, so I guess the
moral is not to forget where you are i.e. 4000+ meters.

The route over Meeker is exciting (guide book says the ridge between
the twin tops "has been known to make some folks nervous"). I was
soloing and can vouch for this statement! On reaching the plateau
between Meeker and Longs it look an easy ascent up to  Longs summit
but the large chasm that makes Longs look like a beaver from the
valley is hidden, so it's best to traverse round the back to regain
the Home Stretch to the top. From the top it's interesting to scramble
down a bit to the top of the Diamond and take a look over!

BTW, can any of you Boulder/Fort Collins rec.climbers tell me what's
happened to LPI. I heard on the grapevine that the Salvation Army
bought it up. Anyone know about this?

--
** Calum Gordon <calum@clu.cf.ac.uk>      ** TEL: +44-222-874000-x5310 **
** Computational Linguistics Unit         ** FAX: +44-222-874293       **
** University of Wales College of Cardiff ** -----"Hello Everyone"---- **
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: A social commentary about "climbers" vs. "People who climb (or play like it)"
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 02:06:17 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Oct12.174240.17164@odin.corp.sgi.com>
bruceb@roadrunner.denver.sgi.com (Bruce Bailey) writes:
>Or how about this:
>"Everyone out there is basically a wanker except me!" (Dr. OW)
>Bruce Bailey (Dr. OW)

Sounds okay to me.
Like that guy wanking the bolt out in the Patagonia catalog?
See you in Anaheim at SIGGRAPH (maybe head to Suicide or Tahquitz).

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			Imhof, Cartographic Relief Presentation
			Books on or by Benjamin Whorf

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Subject: Re: Information request:  El Potrero Chico
Reply-To: uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 15:05:20 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.220715.2712@igor.tamri.com>, anne@igor.tamri.com (Anne Smith) writes:
>
>
>I have heard sketchy rumors concerning El Potrero Chico:
>"The Future Global Winter Sport Climbing Destination",
>located near Monterey, Mexico. Something about miles and
>miles of Buoux - quality limestone. . . .
>
>There was a brief article in the "Basecamp" section of
>_Climbing_ magazine about a year ago, containing general
>directions and topos of about a dozen routes.
>I am looking for any more recent information.

I think Rock and Ice ran a feature article by Sam Lightner/Todd Skinner on
two venues in Mexico -- not much in the way of topos or specific route info,
if I recall correctly, but a good description nonetheless.  Try calling
R&I -- they probably have Lightner's phone # if the guy isn't off climbing
in Vietnam, South Africa, or wherever else he turns up...I think he must have
a REALLY good job, or at least HAD a really great job at one point;  seems
to travel an awful lot :-)

Hope this helps.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: timtow@timtow.b1.ingr.com (Tim Tow)
Subject: Re: Food to take on climbs
Reply-To: timtow@timtow.b1.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corp, Huntsville, Alabama
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:25:19 GMT

In article <106480277@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Elison) writes:

|> 2) Eat small amounts often.  Stuffing a big PB&J sandwich in your stomach in
|>    one sitting will definitely slow you down.  Your digestive system diverts
|>    blood to do its work.
|>    I eat foods with almost no fat, low protein, and high carbs - Powerbars,
|>    bananas, apples, bagels.

	I agree...  I eat a package of bagels everyday..  It has helped me
	cut 22 lbs. this summer and my climbing has progressed from climbing
	8's on TR to leading sport and trad 5.10...  I credit some of the
	success to proper eating.

|> 3) When climbing consecutive days I make sure I do everything possible to
|>    recover at night:  re-hydrate as fast as possible, eat plenty of carbs
|>    and protein, stay warm or cool as needed, and drink a dark German beer!

	All of these are good even if not climbing on consecutive days.. :-)
	
Did anyone see that article on nutrition in Outside magazine a few months back?

-- 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Tim Tow                              |                                      
 Intergraph Corporation               | "Injustice anywhere is a             
 Huntsville, AL                       |      threat to justice everywhere"    
 Mailpath:..timtow@timtow.b1.ingr.com |                                      
 Voice:                  205-730-2117 |         - Dr Martin Luther King, Jr
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Lubricating Cams
Date: 8 Oct 92 01:41:49 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

>In article <1992Oct6.161530.23917@hellgate.utah.edu> allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:
>>PS Tri-Flow is a silicon if I remember correctly.

In article <1992Oct7.194930.11244@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> bobh@minaret.hwr.arizona.edu (Bob Harrington) writes:
>PPS I think Tri-flow is graphite in suspension in silicon.


Nope, we are both wrong.  I read the can this afternoon, it is teflon.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: bruceg@Cadence.COM (Bruce Gustifson)
Subject: Re: BEST climbing shoes
Keywords: shoe
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:53:22 GMT

In article <pevzner.717464141@ceg.uiuc.edu> pevzner@ceg.uiuc.edu (Vadim Pevzner) writes:
>Hey you expert out there!
>Enlighten me. What is the
>climbing shoe market like these days?
>Start by sharing with us
>your bias on the subject of purpose:
>should the smeering or
>the edging be more emphasised in the shoe design?
>Top it off with what
>YOU think the best shoe on the market is and what
>YOU are willing to pay for it?

  Nice post, poetry format, prosaic (or is that prozac). Only
problem...it doesn't rhyme!
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Subject: Re: Alpine Routes - Condition
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 23:28:43 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <8377@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> gustave@crowe.seas.ucla.edu (Gustave R. Stroes) writes:
>Now I'm still a little short on experience but is it generally aggeed
>that a climb's rating goes up when it's covered in snow and ice?

Depends on the climb and on the type of ice.  Sometimes ice can
render a climb easier.  Thin verglas and/or fresh snow are generally
a pain (but make beautiful scenery).

>I can't wait to try mixed climbing again under slightly less 
>ominous circumstances.

Me neither.  It's getting to be the time of year to add
to my ever growing list of failed attempts.  :-( 

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
From: aron@tikal.ced.berkeley.edu (aron bonar)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Artificial Walls
Date: 14 Oct 1992 21:53:36 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: tikal.ced.berkeley.edu

In article <106480276@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Elison) writes:
|> In rec.climbing, scott.powell@amail.amdahl.com writes:
|> 

|> 
|> Use method 3.  Save your money and time for more/better modular holds and
|> creating interesting features.  It's nice to have a vertical section for
|> warmup and footwork, but you will get the most use out of overhanging stuff.
|> Build some really overhanging stuff right off the ground so you can create
|> hard problems and fall safely.
|> 
|> Mort
|> 
 Thats totally the way to go.  At least for power training.  The steeper the better.
I train in "caves" which have an almost horizontal roof (about 80 degrees overhung) 
 that starts about 3 feet off the ground and goes for about 15 feet followed by a 45 degree
overhung section that goes for another 10 feet.  The top of the structure is about 15 feet 
off the ground.  I'll try to draw it in ASCI:  :-)

                                                               / Finish
                                                              /
							     /
                        				    /
							   /
							  /
							 /
			               _________________/
                          ____________/ 
                          |
			  |
			  |Start
			  |
             _____________|_______________________________________________Ground Level

                             Structural Details have been omitted

 You get the idea (hopefully)

But finger strength, as well as general pulling power improves dramatically while training in caves.  I'm now climbing 12+/13-after less than 3 years of climbing.  Also training on more
sloped holds rather than incut holds helps increase power.

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: rwaters@spdg.com (Rolland Waters)
Subject: Re: Food to take on climbs/ Job opening
Organization: Stratos Product Development Group (Seattle)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 20:10:45 GMT

In article <> j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Elison) writes:
> As for liquids - water is great, "toxic sport" drinks are a little better.
> Studies have shown that those special drinks are absorbed more quickly than
> plain water.  Watered down fruit juices are good, but they should be less
> than 50% juice for best absorption.

Studies also show that *cold* water (38-45 degrees Farenheit, ~3-5
degrees C) is absorbed significantly faster than warm water.  Yet
another reason to go sport climbing - you don't have to lug the cooler
so far!


Rolland
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Food to take on climbs/ Job opening
Date: 13 Oct 92 22:31:46 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <Bw2tAt.A00@spdg.com> rwaters@spdg.com (Rolland Waters) writes:
>In article <> j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Elison) writes:
>> As for liquids - water is great, "toxic sport" drinks are a little better.
>> Studies have shown that those special drinks are absorbed more quickly than
>> plain water.  Watered down fruit juices are good, but they should be less
>> than 50% juice for best absorption.
>
>Studies also show that *cold* water (38-45 degrees Farenheit, ~3-5
>degrees C) is absorbed significantly faster than warm water.  Yet
>another reason to go sport climbing - you don't have to lug the cooler
>so far!

You lug your cooler, I'll savor the snow-field fed crisp fresh mountain
streams.

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.climbing