HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: d89-jsp@nada.kth.se (Jan Sparrendahl)
Subject: Re: Tracers
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:23:59 GMT


From d89-jsp@nada.kth.se (Jan Sparrendahl)




From d89-jsp@nada.kth.se (Jan Sparrendahl)

In article <1992Jul30.124559.17588@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, Codesmiths <dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk> writes:
|> From Codesmiths <dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk>
|> In-Reply-To:  viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
|> >         Something is wrong here -- lead is much more toxic than
                      ...
|> impact, and this is pyrophoric in air ...  the DU leaves fine
|> particles that are far more easily absorbed by humans & animals...
pyrophoric in air=> UO2 ??? Isn't UO2 an extremly inert substanse?
More inert than for instanse SiO2. The radiation dosis should be 
low, not to say insignificant even if natural uranium is used.
Do people fear some sort of radioactive silicosis? How come people
are worried?
Comments apreasiated!
|> 
|>           Andy Dingley    dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk
|> 

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: merlin@neuro.usc.edu (merlin)
Subject: Depleted Uranium -- Hydrogen Bombs
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:22:13 GMT


From merlin@neuro.usc.edu (merlin)


From merlin@neuro.usc.edu (merlin)


From merlin@neuro.usc.edu (merlin)

>Its nuclear properties are entirely, completely, utterly irrelevant.
>DU hardly has any nuclear activity worth mentioning.
>
>It can still be fun to expose depleted uranium to a reactor.
>
>Does anybody know how much d.u. we left lying around Kuwait and Iraq?

U-238 is a primary component for use in constructing thermonuclear
weapons -- fusion boosted, hydrogen, and neutron bombs.  It can be
used also in the construction of nuclear driven shaped charges for
boring instant tunnels through mountains.

Hopefully we didn't leave very much depleted U-328 in Iraq -- it would
be a significant boost to their 'weapons of mass destruction' program.
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: 20mm ammo for Phalanx (was Tracers)
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:47:59 GMT
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department


From     "Edward J. Rudnicki" (FSAC-SID) <erudnick@pica.army.mil>


Michael Chui writes:
#References?  Would the use of materials technology to manufacture
#expanding military rounds be legal under the Geneva Convention?


Conventions against expanding bullets seem to apply only to pure
military engagements these days. In an article in INTERNATIONAL
DEFENSE REVIEW last year, one of the requirements for the new US 
"Offensive Pistol" in .45 ACP was that it reliably feed FMJ ammo
for wartime use and hollow points for antiterrorist roles.

The USN SEALs also use JHP bullets in their suppressed MP5s. While
accuracy rather than expansion was the goal, they do expand.


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
"It demoralized them. Not to mention killed them."
     --- 3rd AD officer describing effects of DPICM in ODS
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: Rick Lafford <lafford@serum.clpd.Kodak.COM>
Subject: Re: is the A-10 going bye-bye?
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:28:11 GMT


From Rick Lafford <lafford@serum.clpd.Kodak.COM>




From Rick Lafford <lafford@serum.clpd.Kodak.COM>

In sci.military V10 #63  Brandon Cope writes:

>I have heard a rumor that the Air Force plans to phase out the A-10 in favor 
>of
>using the F-16 (!) for ground attack. This sounds stupid enough for our
>military to do, but I wanted to get a conformation. One of the reasons I 
>heard
>was that AF pilots considered the A-10 unglamorous and too slow.

No rumor, it's true, though I don't know what the thinking is now that
Desert Storm proved the A-10 in combat. There is more to the F-16 argument
than you would think. Remember that most of this thinking was done prior
to the desolution of the USSR and we were thinking of having to defend
Europe against T-80s and their offspring. The GAU-8 carried by the A-10
is considered fairly weak by current armor standards ie.I don't believe
it would stop an M1A1 or T-80. The USAF was looking for something more
powerful with a quicker response time and believed that the F-16 might
fit the bill. The NY Air Guard (the 137th TAC I believe) came up with the
idea of fitting a 30mm gun pod on the centerline station of an F-16 and
using it in an anti-armor role. The idea worked well in testing but the
amount of dumb AA fire encountered over Iraqi tank concentations made
it a risky proposition in practice. The 'Boys from Syracuse' chose to
use Mavericks and 1000lb bombs instead. These were, "Very effective,"
to quote an inside source. 

I believe that the usefulness of the A-10 is being rethought. They were
purpose built for the role they play and will be tough to replace with
an expensive delicate plane like the F-16 but they have the downside of
being slow to get to the battle. When you have to fly 300 miles to the 
fight, this can get to be a problem fast. Given the current state of the
world military, the A-10 just might get a second life. I believe that
they really did a great job as Sandys over Iraq much like the Skyraiders
did over Vietnam; large payload, tough to shoot down, with a good loiter
time. In addition, A-10's can be refueled in the air.

	Rick

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rick Lafford
Eastman Kodak Co.
lafford@serum.kodak.com
========================================================================
From: kamprath@caen.engin.umich.edu (Michael F. Kamprath)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: propeller planee's anti-torque problem
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:36:12 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan, Aerospace Engineering


From Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@caen.engin.umich.edu>

In article <Bsw1pJ.2vG@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> Anandeep Pannu, asp+@pitt.edu writes:
>From asp+@pitt.edu (Anandeep Pannu)
>
>
>Iskandar Taib talks about propwash effects being confused with torque. 
>He is partly right, there is a significant yaw effect due to propwash.
>But what I was talking about was the precession of the planes prop.
>When something is rotating in one plane and the plane of rotation is 
>forcibly changed then there is a force generated at right angles to
>the plane. I should not have called it a torque effect, but rather a
>precession effect of the prop (which is generating torque). So when 
>you raise the tailwheel off the ground and change the plane of the 
>propellers rotation a yaw effect is generated. The same thing applys
>to jet turbines which generate yaw when due to manuvers the plane 
>of rotattion of the turbine/compresser is changed. 

Putting this into dynamics:

         d  _    _
		 --(H) = M
		 dt

That is, when ever you change the orientation of the angular momentum
vector, you create a moment on the body (conservation of angular momentum).
Changing the orientation of the axis of a prop or jet engine changes
its angular momentum vector's orientationthus creating a moment (torque).
Take your front wheel off your bike, spin it real fast, then try to rotate 
perpendicular to the plane of the wheel.  Notice you feel more forces
than just the force resisting your motion.

(rembeber, pure translation does not necessarily mean the _orientation_ 
of a vector has changed).

>I believe the P-factor
>that Isakandar was talking about is the effect of one side of the prop
>rotating faster than the other thus causing yaw effect. I would like
>to hear more about the P-factor.
>

I believe what you are talking about applies to single engine, nose
mounted props.  what happens is that on one side of the fuselage, their
is a slighr upwash of air due to the upward motion (on that side) of 
the prop.  On the other side, there is a slight downwash of air.  This 
asymetric airflow onto the wings creates a slight rolling moment.

Michael F. Kamprath
kamprath@caen.engin.umich.edu
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: Rick Lafford <lafford@serum.clpd.Kodak.COM>
Subject: Re: DU ammo
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:27:56 GMT


From Rick Lafford <lafford@serum.clpd.Kodak.COM>




From Rick Lafford <lafford@serum.clpd.Kodak.COM>


ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:

>Worse yet would be the cleaning up of old firing ran-
>ges (now that many are to be closed) and shot-up tanks etc. The uranium
>probably ends up as finely divided oxides (since it burns in air)

I can't speak for all practice ranges but I strongly suspect that DU
rounds have been used for the most part on closed ranges and in combat. I
KNOW that A-10's use practice (aluminum) rounds on the test range. We have
a range with several shooting zones here in NY at Ft. Drum and the A-10's 
have practiced there for years. It is not considered a biohazard area.

I'll probably hate myself for this but I can get fired GUA-8 practice
rounds. If someone really wants one of these I can probably arrange to
get one or more. Collectors go into the ranges at night and dig them up.
Usually, they are in fair to good condition.

> I also imagine that the melting point might be low (I'll check the 
>CRC tonight). If so, why not cast it in molds under an inert atmos-
>phere?

Many bullet cores are molded but then machined to fit into a close fitting
sleeve. This is (probably) true for DU rounds, both for the GAU -8 and
the M1A1. DU is soft and wouldn't be a very good material if used to
penetrate armor. When clad with something stiff (like tungsten), it adds
substantial mass (kinetic energy) to the round. The idea is to apply large
forces to a small area. If the projectile blunts and expands on impact, the
force is dissipated over a larger area and is less effective. Keep the 
projectile point sharper longer will give it more time to expend energy
against that small point. The GAU-8 used by the A-10 tries to overcome
poor muzzle velocity and low mass (for an anti-armor round) with a large
volume of fire. Thus an A-10 can deliver enormous amounts of kinetic energy
to a target in a small amount of time. M1A1 sabot rounds penetrate main
armor while GAU-8's can damage most everything else exposed.

The GAU-8 is currently considered too low in muzzle velocity for the 
current crop of modern composite MBT armor but I guess Sadam's T-72's
weren't too effected by this thinking ;-).

	Rick

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rick Lafford			| In a struggle to protect my country, I'll use any
Eastman Kodak Co.		| means I can get my hands on be it bomb, rifle or
lafford@serum.kodak.com	| word processor and mass mailing. - me
=========================================================================== 


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: Alan Lonstein <alonstein@igc.apc.org>
Subject: Please Post as Pointer
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:11:40 GMT


From Alan Lonstein <alonstein@igc.apc.org>

Please post as a pointer. The conference and indeed, the 
_Bulletin_ itself seem perfect for your conf.

Thanks,
-Alan
Check out a new conference that will keep you well 
informed on issues of international security, arms 
control, militarism, and nuclear weapons. 

Check out 'bas.magazine.'

THE BULLETIN OF THE ATOMIC SCIENTISTS is a magazine 
specializing in nuclear and arms control issues, 
international affairs, and species survival. 

The conference includes: expanded contents pages, yearly 
index, history of the Doomsday Clock, and ordering 
information. 

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: th2_oate@csd.brispoly.ac.uk (Tom Oates)
Subject: Re: How to spike a gun?
Organization: Bristol Polytechnic, England
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:40:38 GMT


From th2_oate@csd.brispoly.ac.uk (Tom Oates)


From th2_oate@csd.brispoly.ac.uk (Tom Oates)

In article <BsKCnp.E2s@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> dgfritz@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Doug Fritz) writes:
>
>From dgfritz@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Doug Fritz)
>
>Spiking a gun such as a cannon or artillery piece disables the
>gun, but how does a foot soldier spike a gun?

* Pull the pin from a thermite grenade and quickly insert it into the 
breech of an artillery piece. Close the breech and the molten steel
produced will weld the breech shut.

* Fill the fuze pocket of an artillery shell with plastic explosive.
Insert a pencil detonator and initiate it. Load the artillery piece
with the shell. Leave one spiked shell among those in the ammunition 
store. Leave the area before detonation.

Both of the previous methods are quick to perform in a hurry. If you have
more time and no explosives:-

* Remove firing pin from the artillery piece. Mix several buckets of
concrete. With the breech closed, pour the concrete down the muzzle.
Use a pole to ram the concrete down tightly towards the breech. 
Allow to set.

Small Arms:-

* Remove internal 'organs' from the weapons ie. firing pins or rifle bolts 
etc. Take these items miles from the scene and dispose of in the sea,
a river, a deep hole. 

* Drop a white hot plug of steel down the barrel and allow to cool.

* Use an oxy-acetylene cutter to distort/weld parts.

Ammunition:-

* Use demolition charges/thermite.

* Alternatively open the crates/boxes of ammunition and douse with oil.
Any kind will do ie. motor-oil. This will 'kill' the primers unless they
have been sealed with lacquer.

* Take in ammunition which has already been spiked and 'seed' the
ammunition with it. To spike ammunition, use a bullet puller to
disassemble the bullet from the cartridge. Remove propellant. Ram a 
small amount of plastic explosive down onto the primer. Add enough
propellant so that the spiked bullet weighs the same as a normal
bullet. When the bullet is chambered and fired, it will cause the
gun to explode.

-- 
*************************************************************************
*  Tom Oates  (Bristol Poly, England)    *   DISCLAIMER:-               *
*  JANET: th2_oate@csd.brispoly.ac.uk    *   I speak only for myself.   *
*************************************************************************

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: wxb4@po.CWRU.Edu (William Blighglover)
Subject: Re: How to spike a gun?
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:41:52 GMT


From wxb4@po.CWRU.Edu (William Blighglover)


From wxb4@po.CWRU.Edu (William Blighglover)


	I believe that when cannon were fired through a fuze/
flintlock/percussion lock type of arrangement (i.e. up to the U.S.
Civil war, spiking the guns involved driving a heated spike into 
touch hole and hammering it home.  If the metal was hot enough, 
the spike has just been welded into the barrel, and it can't be
gotten out without redrilling the hole, and I'd hate to be the 
first to fire the gun after such an operation, it might blow up
in your face.  Not only that, other operations such as taking the
barrels off their carriages, tossing the guns into a river, and 
even plugging the barrels might have been tried, to keep the enemy
from getting the guns in working order until you are well out of
range.
-- 
William Zeus Bligh-Glover   Prospero on IRC   wxb4@po.cwru.edu
	Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine
		Pathology		Poison Centre
Basic research is what I do when I don't know what I'm doing. WvB

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis)
Subject: 20mm ammo for Phalanx (was Tracers)
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:43:20 GMT


From jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis)




From jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis)


	In answer to the question why Australians use tungsten instead of
	depleted uranium in the 20mm projectiles, it seems to me that the 
	later enjoys more penetration because it is heavier/denser and so
	depleted uranium projectiles are used by the A-10 to kill tanks,
	tungsten on the other hand although quite hard as a material may 
	with a specific coating allow the shell to expand after 
	impact offering greater stoping power by transfering more of the 
	kinetic energy (rather like a hollow-point vs. hardnose bullet)
	(the SAS use tungsten coated 9mm in their HK-MP5 submachine-guns
	to avoid overpenetration that might leave the enemy standing), 
	this is all speculation on my part but sounds plausible, any opinions?


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: wwo@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (Thomas Schoene)
Subject: Re: How to spike a gun?
Organization: Cornell University
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1992 17:51:37 GMT


From wwo@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (Thomas Schoene)

In article <BsKCnp.E2s@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>,
dgfritz@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Doug Fritz) writes: 
> 
> From dgfritz@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Doug Fritz)
> 
> Spiking a gun such as a cannon or artillery piece disables the
> gun, but how does a foot soldier spike a gun?
It is possible to temporarily disable the gun by driving a nail or bayonet into 
the touchhole of the gun.  To do it properly you need special spikes.  One
first rams a ball in under the vent and drive a spike down through the vent
until it bends over on the ball.  To get the gun back into action you have to
drill out the spike and draw the ball (not an easy operation). 
-- 
Tom Schoene
wwo@cornella.cit.cornell.edu  -or- wwo@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Whenever you're holding all the cards why does everyone else turn
out to be playing chess?"
From: short@asf.com (Lee Short)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Altered history of warfare
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:36:06 GMT
Organization: ASF


From Lee Short <short@asf.com>

In article <Bsw11M.EC@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> Tuomas Viljanen writes:
>
>Arab armies relied heavily on spear- and bow-armed infantry, their cavalry 
>being medium cav lancers and javelin-armed light cavalry (which were, in fact,
>more effective than mounted archers). Bow-armed light cavalry were almost
>totally absent in Arab armies.
>

Depends on your definition of "Arab armies".  Most of the Armies which
fought against the Crusaders in the Middle East had fair numbers of
cavalry archers.  Some of these armies -- those from Armenia,
Kurdistan, Iraq, and northern Syria -- were generally led by Turks,
and consisted of mixed Turks and Arabs.  The Damascene army was
generally in the same boat, though its composition was probably more
Arab than Turk.  Many people think of these as "Arab armies", and they
were partially Arabic in nature -- though the cavalry archers
themselves were Turks.  The only Moslem armies the Crusaders fought
which had no horse archers were probably the Fatamid Egyptian armies,
and I don't know if these really qualify as Arabic.  

Just clarifying some things,
Lee

-- 
short@asf.com              I'll believe in Virtual Reality when they create 
*NOT* short@xxx.asf.com                             the first virtual beer.  
Lee Short              I speak for none of the many steps in the food chain 
Hughes Training, Inc.         between myself and General Motors corporation.
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: pyrdek@edinboro.edu
Subject: DEW Line and "Blackbird"
Organization: Edinboro University of Pennsylvania
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1992 17:56:07 GMT


From pyrdek@edinboro.edu

I saw a post recently that indicated that the Distant Early Warning
radar line was shut down last year, I believe.

If this is true, does anyone know if the two sites which were in Iceland,
H-1 near Keflavik and especially H-3 Hofn (south-eastern corner of
the country) were shut down, converted to civilian (for air trafic
control of North Atlantic routes, or what happened to them?

I have a special fondness for H-3 since I spent a fun year there
in the 60's.

As a side note, a recent vist to the AF Museum at Wright-Pat AFB
was a minor disappointment.  The Blackbird has been moved to the annex
but they don't bother mentioning this fact on the PA announcements
or on the display floor in the "modern" hanger.  In fact, the
guide brochure still has it shown near one corner of the modern
hanger.  If you want to see the "Blackbird" at roost, be ready to
take a bus ride across the base....
From: bergman@afnews.pa.af.mil (CMSgt Mike Bergman)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: DoD News 08/17/92
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:41:26 GMT
Organization: Hq Air Force News Agency/SCC


From CMSgt Mike Bergman <bergman@afnews.pa.af.mil>

  <<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><>>
  <<>> Assistant Secretary Of Defense                                    <<>>
  <<>>        Public Affairs                     August 1992             <<>>
  <<>>    Pentagon, Washington DC       Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat      <<>>
  <<>>        DSN  225-3886                                      1       <<>>
  <<>>       - - - - - - -               2   3   4   5   6   7   8       <<>>
  <<>>  DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE NEWS       9  10  11  12  13  14  15       <<>>
  <<>>                                  16  17  18  19  20  21  22       <<>>
  <<>>   MONDAY, AUGUST 17, 1992        23  24  25  26  27  28  29       <<>>
  <<>>                                  30  31                           <<>>
  <<>>                                                                   <<>>
  <<>>                   - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -                   <<>>
  <<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><>>


* MEMORANDUM FOR CORRESPONDENTS:			August 14, 1992
* DoD News Briefing
* Contract Awards

=============================================================

MEMORANDUM FOR CORRESPONDENTS:			August 14, 1992

	The Departments of the Army, Navy and Air Force today announced the
following general/flag officer reassignments:

ARMY:
Brigadier General Robert E. Wynn, to be CG, U.S. Army Information Systems
Engineer Command/Program Manager, Army Information Systems, Fort Huachuca,
Arizona.  He is currently CG, 7th Signal Command and Fort Richie, Maryland.  

	Brigadier General John M. Watkins, Jr., to be Deputy CG, U.S. Army
Information Systems Command, Fort Huachuca, Arizona.  He is currently CG, U.S.
Army Information Systems Engineering/Program Manager, Army Information Systems,
Fort Huachuca, Arizona.

	Brigadier General Frederick H. Essig, to be CG, 7th Signal Command and


-- 
         
      // \\
    //     \\                    Air Force News Agency 
   |         |               Kelly Air Force Base, Texas, USA
   \\  {*}  //                   bergman@afpan.pa.af.mil  
   \  CMSgt  /      ___________________ /____________________________________
   \  Mike   /   
   \ Bergman /
     \     / 
Newsgroups: sci.military