HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: adh@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.d.hay)
Subject: Re: porsche engines
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 12:43:49 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.203939.18168@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> springs@wings.dartmouth.edu (David Fisher) writes:
"
"Hello.
"
"   I am in the process of building a kitplane (hence the posting to this
"newsgroup) and am currently looking into what kind of engine I should put
"in this.  I could go with a conventional engine (Lycoming or Continental),
"but the problem there is that a low-time engine costs a great deal.  I told
"a friend of mine about this, and he suggested using a Porsche engine.  He
"has some experience with them, (he is a certified Porsche mechanic) but only
"in cars, not in planes.  I also read an article in AOPA Pilot (November '89)
"describing Mooney's Porsche-powered plane, the M20L.  All in all, it sounds
"interesting enough to research.  My questions for the net are these:  does
"anyone have the address or phone number of Mooney so that I could call and
"ask about the plane, or any experience putting Porsche engines in planes?
"Specifically, I'm curious how Mooney geared down the shaft rpm's, and what
"kind of reliability they have seen with this combination.  Any gratuitous
"information is welcomed also.

porsche supplied the engine and gearbox.  they gave up on the general
aviation market shortly afterward.
perhaps they only wanted to get a little stress/durability data...

-- 
		+--------------------------------------------------------------+
Andrew Hay	|	one step beyond the outer limits of the twilight       |
a_d_hay@att.com	|	zone in the darkened room at the night gallery	       |
		+--------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
From: adh@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.d.hay)
Subject: Re: porsche engines
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 11:58:15 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.210124.3562@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Charles.K.Scott@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott) writes:
"SHHHHHHHHHHHHH, keep it quiet will ya, there are still thousands of
"ground pilots out there driving around thinking they're being powered
"by a *PORSCHE* (pronounced poor shuh :-)) engine.  They would be very
"unhappy to hear that it's merely a Vee dub. :-) :-)

that reminds me of the joke about the high school kid that painted the
trim on the rich guy's house.  when he's finished the rich guy says,
"you did such a good job, here's $50; paint my porch too -- it's
around the side of the house, next to the garage".  so the kid goes
speeding off and comes back about 30 minutes later, and says "it's all
finished, sir, but i don't think it's a porch.

it looks more like a ferrari to me."

-- 
		+--------------------------------------------------------------+
Andrew Hay	|	one step beyond the outer limits of the twilight       |
a_d_hay@att.com	|	zone in the darkened room at the night gallery	       |
		+--------------------------------------------------------------+
From: Charles.K.Scott@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
Subject: Re: porsche engines
Date: 16 Dec 92 21:01:24 GMT
 <BzCE3x.F6B@plato.ds.boeing.com>  
 <1992Dec16.124950.20082@cbnews.cb.att.com>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1992Dec16.124950.20082@cbnews.cb.att.com>
adh@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.d.hay) writes:

> this is actually a vw engine.  it was developed for the 411/412 and
> used in the bus from the early '70s [at least] until fairly recently,
> as well as the 914-4.

SHHHHHHHHHHHHH, keep it quiet will ya, there are still thousands of
ground pilots out there driving around thinking they're being powered
by a *PORSCHE* (pronounced poor shuh :-)) engine.  They would be very
unhappy to hear that it's merely a Vee dub. :-) :-)

Corky Scott
From: jmmatthe@apgea.army.mil (Jeffrey M. Matthews <jmmatthe>)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Wag Aero Sport Trainer
Date: 17 Dec 92 22:25:40 GMT
Organization: CRDEC APG

In article <BzCxy2.9tq@cmptrc.lonestar.org> mitch@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Mitch Veenstra) writes:
>in the world. :)  Also, has anybody used the observer supplement drawings?
>Would be pretty neet to have a L4 look alike.
>
>Any help is greatly appreciated.
>Mitch

And useful too!  Satchel Paige wasn't a pilot.  Almost everything in the
sky will be gaining on you.  I've rebuilt some Cubs, and love them, but
can't tell you anything about the W.A. S.T.  Wag Aero can be a bit of a
nuisance to deal with, as has been discussed in this group before, so
document and get it in writing if you decide to go for it.

J. Matthews
Standard Disclaimers Apply
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
From: mitch@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Mitch Veenstra)
Subject: Wag Aero Sport Trainer
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:06:02 GMT
Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX

I've been thinking about building a plane for a long time now.  What I really 
want is a j3 cub look alike.  Wag Aero sells a Sport Trainer set of plans
that is pretty much a cub in all but name.  Has anybody built any of these?
Have you used the fuselage kit? the wing kits?  How well are the plans laid
out?  I realize that this is not a complete 250 hour kit, that it will take
much more time and work to complete, but thats okay.  I've got all the time
in the world. :)  Also, has anybody used the observer supplement drawings?
Would be pretty neet to have a L4 look alike.

Any help is greatly appreciated.
Mitch
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
From: toby@carson.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw)
Subject: RV-4 plans for sale
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:24:20 GMT

RV-4 plans for sale.  Approximately 4 years old, complete and
never even looked at :(  I couldn't resist rolling inverted in
Van's RV-6 over his home strip, but I'd like $100 to get the
plans out of my closet.  Email, please.

Toby Bradshaw                       |
Department of Biochemistry          |  
and College of Forest Resources     |           
University of Washington, Seattle   |
toby@u.washington.edu               |


Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
From: prang@plato.ds.boeing.com (Ron Wanttaja)
Subject: Re: porsche engines
Organization: Boeing Defense & Space Group
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 07:57:32 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.203939.18168@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> springs@wings.dartmouth.edu (David Fisher) writes:
>
>   I am in the process of building a kitplane (hence the posting to this
>newsgroup) and am currently looking into what kind of engine I should put
>in this.  I could go with a conventional engine (Lycoming or Continental),
>but the problem there is that a low-time engine costs a great deal.  I told
>a friend of mine about this, and he suggested using a Porsche engine.

I have a friend with a popular homebuilt powered by a Porsche engine, and
he swears by it.  Cheap to operate, and a power to weight ratio about 25%
higher than the normal engine that goes in his aircraft.

Mind you, the airplane is an Evans Volksplane.  He mounted the 4-cylinder
Porsche 914 engine (65 HP) instead of the standard 1600 cc VW (50 HP).

As far as the PFM (Porshe Flugzeug Motor) mounted in the Mooney, I believe
they've discontinued it.  It had few advantages over the Lycoming, and cost
was not one of them.

                                          Ron Wanttaja
					  prang@plato.ds.boeing.com
From: ken@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com (Kenneth M. Sumrall)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 01:50:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Supersonic BD-10J for real?
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt

Thanks for all the resonses I got.  It seems like the BD-10 is a
real plane after all.

>While I'm on the the subject, are BD-5J's still being sold?
>
I didn't get an answer on this one.  Anyone have any info?

Enquiring minds want to know!  Like me!

Thanks in advance for any info you may have.

| Ken Sumrall                          |     Internet: ken%hpda@hplabs.hp.com |
| HP California Language Labs          |           UUCP:  ...!hplabs!hpda!ken |
|    "I'd stomp desert dope heads for some gas in my moped!" - Bill the Cat   |
|              "What a stupid world" -Calvin (speaking to Hobbes)             |
From: spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Supersonic BD-10J for real?
Date: 14 Dec 1992 23:13:21 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: wiley.ts.stratus.com

In article <112850002@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com>, ken@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com (Kenneth M. Sumrall) writes:
> 
> >While I'm on the the subject, are BD-5J's still being sold?
> >
> I didn't get an answer on this one.  Anyone have any info?

I didn't answer this in my original response because what I know about 
current builders of BD-5s is pretty slim and possibly inaccurate.  But, 
since nobody else responded, I'll write what I believe to be true.  Someone 
correct me if I'm wrong.  Maybe my information will jog someone elses memory
and they can post more info (or corrections) here.

Jim Bede stopped selling BD-5s when he ran into financial difficulties 
several years ago.  The engine deal which Bede depended on to provide 
builders with powerplants fell through.  Unfortunately, this happened after
deposits were taken for kits, and Bede had already used up this cash, leaving
builders with partial or complete kits (or nothing at all) and a lot less
money than they used to have.  Can you say "bankrupt"?  Jim Bede can.  

Partially built BD-5s are still often listed in the back of KITPLANES and in
Trade A Plane.  Partially built after... HOW LONG????  These kits don't 
exactly have a high completion rate.  Aside from the engine problems (which
a few people have gotten around, as evidenced by the few BD-5s which are 
currently flying and haven't crashed yet), I believe there were certain kit
parts which were extremely difficult to fabricate, and if you didn't get 
these parts with your kit you were in trouble.  I remember hearing at least
one rumor that one or more people were somehow involved in trying to solve
these problems and get more BD-5s flying, but that was a few years ago and
I haven't seen any tangible results yet so I doubt it's happening.

All of this is a long winded way of saying nobody is making a BD-5 kit today.
-- 
     Steve Pennypacker		     PP-ASEL

     spenny@wiley.ts.stratus.com     Stephen_Pennypacker@vos.stratus.com
From: Charles.K.Scott@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Impending Velocity factory visit
Date: 18 Dec 92 18:51:32 GMT
 <1992Dec18.154143.10436@anasazi.com>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1992Dec18.154143.10436@anasazi.com>
best@anasazi.com (Mike Best) writes:

> Ask them how it was that their Velocity (a Rutan Long EZ variant with the 
> canard for stall proofing) got into a stalled canard situation that almost
> killed the test pilot (he pancaked with the plane into a marshy area).
> I have never once seen any mention that the canard was either installed
> wrong or had too much lift which would potentially result in the canard
> stalling before the main wing.

This has been dealt with extensively in both Kitplanes and Sport
Aviation and also in rec.aviation.  The canard was not the problem, it
was the strake which has since been either modified or kits sold which
eliminate the situation.  The exact definition of the phenominon was
called "deep stall".

Corky Scott
From: raymond.hoem@dwarp.sccsi.com (Raymond Hoem) 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
Subject: Roomy Kit Planes
Date: 10 Dec 92 13:06:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Data Warp Premium BBS - Spring/Houston, TX - 713-355-6107
Reply-To: raymond.hoem@dwarp.sccsi.com (Raymond Hoem) 

WP>    What is available in the kit plane market that would be an equivalent
WP>to a Cessna 172. I am looking for something that can move two greater than
WP>FAA size people that are well over 6 foot tall and wider than the norm.
WP>All the kitplanes I have seen are very tiny (or very expensive) and can
WP>not carry a good load. I guess if I did not put doors on a Glasair and
WP>stuck my arms out the side I would be OK! Of course I have seen very few
WP>homebuilts myself and I know that there is quite a variety.

WP>   Any advice (or a good thread) would be appreciated!

Check out the most recent issue of Kitplanes.  There probably aren't a whole
lot left since the January issue is out shortly.  Anyway, there is a big list
comparing all the available kit planes on the market in the US - at least the
ones which Kitplanes is familiar with.  I never counted them but there is 
well over a hundred - maybe even a couple hundred.

I did a comparison of all airplanes exceeding 3 places with a cruise speed
in excess of 185 MPH.  It is a lotus file and would be willing to share it 
if you wanted the info!
---
 . SLMR 2.0 . hAS ANYONE SEEN MY cAPSLOCK KEY?
                                                                                                                    
Xref: sparky rec.aviation.homebuilt:478 rec.aviation:17521
From: dralle@roxanne.llnl.gov (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation
Subject: Lancair, Glasair, Venture, RV-x, etc...
Summary: Questions About Fuel Senders for Aircraft...
Keywords: Also - Fuel Management System Questions...
Date: 14 Dec 92 22:57:24 GMT
Followup-To: rec.aviation.homebuilt
Distribution: usa
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory


I am designing a Fuel System monitor for homebuilt aircraft and would like
some input on a couple of points:

First, can builders of the formentioned homebuilts and other types, please
send me email regarding the following information on the fuel senders used 
in their aircraft:


	#	Aircraft type

	# 	Number of fuel tanks with fuel senders

	# 	Size of each tank in gallons

			- total
		
			- usable

	#	Fuel sender type (part #, manufacture, etc)

	#	Ohm resistance of sender

	#	Resistance measurment:

			- at full tank

			- at empty tank

	#	Is fuel sender connected to Ground?



Second, what kind of features would you find useful in a fuel system monitor
that had the following raw data information available:

	#	Fuel Flow (i.e. Gallons per hour)

	#	Fuel remaining in each tank as measured directly from sender

	#	Loran or GPS measured distance and time to destination
	

Please send any kind of features that come to mind; nothing should be
considered to far-out.

Also, please use email to responed as I don't get to read email as often as I
would like.  Send to dralle@roxanne.llnl.gov.

Thankyou for any and all information you can provide,

Matt Dralle

-- 
********************************************************************************
         Matt Dralle - Lawrence Livermore National Lab - 510.422.4896
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
From: venky@thelonious.bellcore.com (G A Venkatesh)
Subject: Impending Velocity factory visit
Reply-To: venky@thelonious.bellcore.com (G A Venkatesh)
Organization: Bellcore, Morristown NJ
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 13:59:49 GMT

We will be going down to Florida in two weeks to visit the Velocity kitplane
factory and to get checked out in the Velocity 173. I am trying to make a 
list of things to observe and questions to ask. Send me any question that you
would like to be aswered or observation to be made (however trivial or obvious
it may be). It will help me in my own evaluation. I will post a report after I
get back. But do e-mail me before Christmas.

venky
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
From: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Subject: Re: Supersonic BD-10J for real?
Reply-To: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 15 Dec 92 01:16:42 GMT

In article <1gj4ehINNcob@transfer.stratus.com> spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker) writes:
>> 
>> >While I'm on the the subject, are BD-5J's still being sold?
>> >
>> I didn't get an answer on this one.  Anyone have any info?
>

At an airshow with the Coors Silver Bullet, one of the ground crew said
they bought the remaining -5J kits that were available at the time
(this was about 5 years ago) to use as spares.  Some of the kits were
still wrapped and no plans to use them other than upkeep of the
existing plane.

Kerry
From: springs@wings.dartmouth.edu (David Fisher)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
Subject: porsche engines
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:39:39 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH


Hello.

   I am in the process of building a kitplane (hence the posting to this
newsgroup) and am currently looking into what kind of engine I should put
in this.  I could go with a conventional engine (Lycoming or Continental),
but the problem there is that a low-time engine costs a great deal.  I told
a friend of mine about this, and he suggested using a Porsche engine.  He
has some experience with them, (he is a certified Porsche mechanic) but only
in cars, not in planes.  I also read an article in AOPA Pilot (November '89)
describing Mooney's Porsche-powered plane, the M20L.  All in all, it sounds
interesting enough to research.  My questions for the net are these:  does
anyone have the address or phone number of Mooney so that I could call and
ask about the plane, or any experience putting Porsche engines in planes?
Specifically, I'm curious how Mooney geared down the shaft rpm's, and what
kind of reliability they have seen with this combination.  Any gratuitous
information is welcomed also.

    -David Fisher
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
From: best@anasazi.com (Mike Best)
Subject: Re: Impending Velocity factory visit
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Arizona USA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:41:43 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.135949.14803@walter.bellcore.com> venky@thelonious.bellcore.com (G A Venkatesh) writes:
>We will be going down to Florida in two weeks to visit the Velocity kitplane
>factory and to get checked out in the Velocity 173. I am trying to make a 
>list of things to observe and questions to ask. Send me any question that you
>would like to be aswered or observation to be made (however trivial or obvious
>it may be). It will help me in my own evaluation. I will post a report after I
>get back. But do e-mail me before Christmas.
>
>venky

Ask them how it was that their Velocity (a Rutan Long EZ variant with the 
canard for stall proofing) got into a stalled canard situation that almost
killed the test pilot (he pancaked with the plane into a marshy area).
I have never once seen any mention that the canard was either installed
wrong or had too much lift which would potentially result in the canard
stalling before the main wing.


Mike Best
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.ifr
From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris)
Subject: Re: IFR Icing Strategies
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 16:44:49 GMT

osh@cray.com (O'Shaughnessy John) writes:

>On one flight last year with an instructor, we picked up a little ice during
>climbout, but it sublimated once on top.  The trouble is, from the inside,
>it's hard to gauge how much is out there.  Narrow items, such as structs may
>have had a 1/4 inch, but the middle of the leading edge probably had 1/8 inch.

>Would this be reported on a pirep as a trace?  light? 

>Are there any standards in this area?

See AIM paragraph 521:

521. PIREP'S RELATING TO AIRFRAME ICING

  [...]
 (1) Trace -- Ice becomes perceptible.  Rage of accumulation is slightly
     greater than the rate of sublimation.  It is not hazardous even 
     though deicing/anti-icing equipment is not utilized unless encountered
     for an extended period of time (over 1 hour).

 (2) Light -- the rate of accumulation may create a problem if flight is
     prolonged in this environment (over 1 hour).  Occasional use of
     deicing/anti-icing equipment removes/prevents accumulation.  It
     does not present a problem if the deicing/anti-icing equipment is
     used.

 (3) Moderate -- The rate of accumumation is such that even short
     encounters become potentially hazardous and the use of deicing/
     anti-icing equipment or flight diversion is necessary.

 (4) Severe -- The rate of accumulation is such that deicing/anti-icing
     equipment fails to reduce or control the hazard.  Immediate flight
     diversion is necessary.


[me talking again]

Note that a SEVERE icing PIREP is automatically transmitted by the FAA
as a UUA: Urgent Pilot Report.  The other icing reports are distributed
as normal UA's.  I think that all the automated briefing systems are 
designed to include UUA reports whenever the user calls for UA.

The icing severity reports are keyed to the accumulation *rate*, not
the amount of ice you happen to pick up.  Note that "trace" ice could
still eventually turn you into a flying ice cube with a 90 degree
glide angle...but it would still be "trace" if the ice accumulated only
slowly.  

For a small bird, a 1/4" ridge on the leading edges is more than enough
to make life interesting...and maybe short.  And don't forget that ice
is probably accumulating on the prop as well if you don't have deice
equipment, and that ice can suddenly unbalance the system.

Oh yes, one more item: especially if you've got passengers when you happen
into ice, but later descend into above-freezing air, be prepared for some
loud noises as the bird sheds the ice load.  The dislodged ice will announce
its departure by breaking across the leading edge of the stabilizers.  The
first time that happened to me was over the mountains of Arizona and it
took me a while to realize that the airplane wasn't coming apart under me...

Joe Morris
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.ifr
From: philf@xymox.palo-alto.ca.us (Phil Fernandez)
Subject: Re: Intersection names
Organization: Jade and Jett Incorporated
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 03:56:08 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.034652.5420@xymox.palo-alto.ca.us> philf@xymox.palo-alto.ca.us (Phil Fernandez) writes:
>In article <1992Dec18.160624.13247@nntpserver.chevron.com> hdnea@usho92.hou281.chevron.com (David Neal) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec18.051532.14458@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> buchanan@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (BUCHANAN TIMOTHY E) writes:
>>>The FAA turned down my suggestion for an intersection name, and I can't
>>>imagine why-
>>>
>>>November so/and/so, cleared to EATME; hold as published.

Since I'm in a silly mood about silly intersection names, one more:

Off the coast west of Santa Monica is the DINTY intersection.  It is
an initial fix for a transition to the Moorpark Three arrival (STAR)
for LAX.  Given the naming convention for STAR transitions
(fix-id.transition-id) this one for the Moorpark three arrival
(abbreviated MOOR3) produces the DINTY.MOOR3 arrival.

For those of us who grew up eating Dinty Moore chile, this is pretty
odd.  Not an accident, I'm sure...

pmf
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.simulators
From: jeremy@deneb.Princeton.EDU (Jeremy Goodman)
Subject: IFR simulator for Sun workstation
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:20:58 GMT

(You may have seen this before---I tried to post this last Wednesday and
received confirmation but the posting didn't show up at my site.)

Does anyone know of an IFR simulator program that will run on a Sun 
workstation (which is what I've got at home)?  I am an IFR student and
would like to practice approaches inexpensively even if I can't log the time.
From: hdnea@usho92.hou281.chevron.com (David Neal)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.ifr
Subject: Re: Intersection names
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:06:24 GMT
Organization: Chevron

In article <1992Dec18.051532.14458@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> buchanan@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (BUCHANAN TIMOTHY E) writes:
>The FAA turned down my suggestion for an intersection name, and I can't
>imagine why-
>
>November so/and/so, cleared to EATME; hold as published.


And of course, over Frank Sinatra's house, it would have
to be: MYWAY. 

Or perhaps: HOFFA.

:-)


-- 
David Neal -- hdnea@hou281.chevron.com 

My processes aren't dead! They're only resource impaired!
Computationally challenged!
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.misc,rec.aviation.student