HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder)
Subject: Re: JOHN CAGE
Summary: Aesthetics
Organization: Quake Public Access
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 22:01:12 GMT

In article <c1JuPB3w164w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> kevin@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Kevin Scott) writes:

>Music and philosophy are a bad mix.

Interesting...that's a philosophical statement itself!  Do you really think
that aesthetics is a worthless branch of philosophy?

If nothing else, a study of philosophy as it relates to art will explain
why it is that people have such radically different ideas of what art is
and what the difference between good art and bad art are.  Do you see no
value even in that?

--Brian
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025))
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Mozart REQUIEM
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:05:33 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Aug11.170305.1@venus.ycc.yale.edu>, bamn@venus.ycc.yale.edu writes...
>In article <1992Aug11.180142.21539@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu>, colby@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Colby Leider) writes:
>> 
>> This work is awesome.  (i just thought i would share this with everyone)
>> 
>> colby
>> 
> 
>i agree wholeheartedly, i consider it to be mozarts best!


I also enjoy this piece, but you do realize that Mozart did not compose 
the entire work.  So it may not be possible to view it as Mozart's, or 
anyone's, best.  The movie _Amadeus_ aside, someone other than Mozart had 
to finish the work.

Ron
From: irj@inf.rl.ac.uk (Ian R Jenkins)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Glazunov
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:24:34 GMT
Organization: Rutherford Appleton Laboratory

In article <1992Aug11.230437.15126@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie) writes:
|> I'd like to ask the net about Glazunov. Is his music worth exploring?
|> I've heard a couple of the ballets (The Seasons) and the Violin Concerto,
|> but none of the symphonies, quartets, etc. He seems to be a neglected composer.

I have heard 3 of his symphonies, nos 4,5 and 6. 4 is fairly boring apart
from a rather nice gentle scherzo.

No. 6 is possibly the biggest load of drivel I have heard from a repertoire
composer - there isn't a single theme worth remembering, it is full of banal
empty gestures and isn't worth the paper it is printed on (IMHO - in case it
is someones favourite piece of music !!)

No.5 however is terrific. It epitomises Russian Romantic symphonies, with
lucious flowing melodies, glowing orchestration, moving and energetic climaxes
and it stands the test of time pretty well. It is in the same tradition as
Rimsky Korsakov's scheherazade (sp) and other large scale Russian orchestral
showpieces.

He also wrote a saxophone concerto (plus some piano concertos too I believe).

At his best, he is a very competent 2nd rate composer, at his worst, kitsch.

I know he was very highly regarded by his contemporaries, and even some of his
more radical pupils worshipped him (Shostakovich).

Ian J

--

	"I'm not going to die, I've just bought a new pair of trousers"

				Havergal Brian, aged 92

Ian Jenkins				JANET:	irj@uk.ac.rl.inf
Rutherford Appleton Laboratory,		UUCP:	..!mcsun!ukc!rlinf!irj
Chilton, Didcot, Oxon. OX11 0QX.
From: dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: A quick guide to different musical periods...
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:48:56 GMT
Organization: Camosun College

In article <1992Aug18.222427.5069@cco.caltech.edu>, rmw@cco.caltech.edu (Richard M. Wilson) writes:
[....]
> The reference is CVLTVRE Made Stvpid by Tom Weller.  The complete paragraph is
> 
>    The progress of musical structure through the development of counterpoint,
>    chromaticism, etc., is a difficult subject.  You need only remember a few 
>    principles.  Baroque music goes "Dah DAH dah dah DAH dah dah"; Rococo
>    music goes "Tweedle-eedle ta ta TA."  The Classical period is characterized
>    by a lot of "DUM dum diddle diddle DUM" stuff, while Romantic music goes
>    "La-a-a LA-A-A-A la-a-a la-a-a-a-a-a-a-a." 

Wasn't it also this seminal work that described opera as the combination
of two previously existing art forms: music and fat people bellowing in
a foreign language? My sentiments exactly.
-- 
===============================================================
|Deryk Barker Computer Science Dept.  | Without music life    |
|Camosun College, Victoria, BC	      | would be a mistake    |
|Canada 			      | (Friedrich Nietsche). |
===============================================================
From: al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Haus Der Luge)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: WEBERN
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 10:26:13 CST
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB

 
Does anybody here have the BOULEZ/WEBERN box set?
 
I understand it's complete save for WEBERN's early pieces that did not 
have opus numbers.
 
Haus der Luge
 

;--- (Haus Der Luge) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
;E-mail: al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca
;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: viscaino@wichita.cs.tcu.edu (Ben Viscaino)
Subject: Gershwin
Organization: Texas Christian University
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 08:33:31 GMT

I am interested in knowing if anyone is aware of specific CDs for George
Gershwin where he actually played piano.  All the CDs I've seen seem to
have a different pianist.  I would like to find some original works.
I especially would like some versions of Rhapsody in Blue to include the
live version at the Aeolian Hall (1924?).

Thanks in advance for e-mail responses.

BEN
From: ctiao@riemann.math.purdue.edu (Chieh-Hsien Tiao)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Wedding music suggestions?
Date: 16 Aug 92 22:34:02 GMT
Reply-To: ctiao@riemann.math.purdue.edu (Chieh-Hsien Tiao)
Organization: Purdue University

Cesar Franck's organ musics might be quite suitable. I suggested his
Cantabile and Andandte from "Grand Piece Symphonique" to my friend who
got married this July. The music worked out pretty well.

You can find those out from a 2-CD set called "Franck: Complete Works
for Organ", Anthony Newman, Organ; labeled Newport Classic.

Jason Tiao
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: taha@sanantonio.cs.tcu.edu (Iraqi_Godfather)
Subject: Beethoven Violin Sonatas (Zukerman/Neikrug), a REVIEW
Originator: taha@sanantonio
Organization: Texas Christian University
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:48:39 GMT

Hello:

FIRST, SOME INFORMATION:

BEETHOVEN; Sonatas for Piano and Violin (Complete);
Pinchas Zukerman (pf); Marc Neikrug (vn).
RCA Victor Red Seal 09026-60991-2
about 248 minutes; [DDD]
Full-Priced 4-CD Box Set (I got it for $48 from Sound Warehouse)

PERSONAL COMPARISON:
    I. Perlman, V. Ashkenazy 421 453-2DM4
---------------------------------------------------------------
The first Sonata I heard was Op.47 in A-major ("Kreutzer")
and IT IS GREAT !

The "Spring" Sonata shows Zukerman at his best

Unlike what LvB may have intended, Zukerman is leading the
performances. However, Neikrug's is very warm.  I had the
feeling that the Steinway (Hamburg) would sound a bit too
"brilliante", but Neikrug's excellent transitions give a more
personable feel to the Piano's parts: compare him to D. Barenboim's
performace on his EMI release of LvB's Complete Piano Sonatas.

The Recording (done in New York, and Dallas) are superb.  This is the
first time I got to trun my 80-Watt Amplifier all the way up
(all my student neighbors are on vacation).  The sound never
lost any of its crispiness !

Apart from the Perlman/Ashkenazy set, I can't recall any 
other set with such superb Artistic/Technical qualities as this
set.

For further reading, refere to GRAMAPHONE magazine (July 1992) for a
second-opinion by Herbert Glass (reporting form Dallas). 

To me, Zukerman proves that, still, the World's greatest living
violinists are Jewish ! (Just a perosonal opinion).
may be they have circumcized fingers as well as ...  :)

ENJOY SHOPPING or LISTENING   :)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Shiekh/ Aras Ezadeen Taha
An Iraqi Getting BBQed by Bush's orders !, 
   America should kick this SOB out of office !.  
                             +----------------------------------------- 
Senior; Computer Science     | Q:  Why Computer Professionals may 
Texas Christian University   |       confuse Halloween and Christmas ?! 
Box 31558, TCU,              | A:  Dec 25 = Oct 31  
Fort Worth, Texas 76129, USA +-----------------------------------------
............................. E-MAIL: taha@riogrande.cs.tcu.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: gadfly@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (Gadfly)
Subject: Re: Authentic performance/pitch.
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:49:53 GMT
Summary: No big deal.

In article <1992Aug19.180904.23209@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk>, ucap22w@ucl.ac.uk
(Martin S T Watts) writes:
> ...I'm becoming pleasantly accustomed to the sound of authentic
> instruments, but it seems to me the advantages of balance they
> produce could be retained at the modern concert pitch which I have
> this feeling Bach and Handel would have preferred had they lived
> through the change. Would anybody object if THIS became common practice?

Even the most dogmatic "authenticity" zealots tend to be much less
orthodox about pre-classical pitch.  This is because there is often
very little choice--the instruments demand a particular standard.
The inflexibility is mostly from the wind instruments, of course,
but the strings were clearly designed for best resonance at a non-
modern, and usually lower, standard.  For many of those winds--
especially recorders--even copies scaled to modern pitch usually
do not have as good a sound as the original size.  And although it's
quite easy to tune a viol or violin from Baroque to modern pitch,
when you do it's like picking up somebody else's instrument.

Someone noted that string players may worry that tuning up could
add stresses that might break their instruments.  The really worry
in changing tuning is breaking the strings, and then the lack
of stability from those which do stand up to the frequent changes
in tension--remember they are gut.  For viols, anyway, there is a
whole class of lyra-style literature which employs literally
dozens of different tunings, so it was common practice to tune
some strings up or down a step or two, with the assumption that
the instrument could easily take it.

               *** ***
Ken Perlow   ***** *****
21 Aug 92   ****** ******   4 Fructidor An CC
            *****   *****   gadfly@ihlpa.ATT.COM
             ** ** ** **
...L'AUDACE!   *** ***   TOUJOURS DE L'AUDACE!  ENCORE DE L'AUDACE!
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Die Meistersinger
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 13:23:53 GMT

In article <92228.195259KSSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Ken Sherrill <KSSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:

>I find it amazing that fifteen years has passed since the last major recording
>of Meistersinger. I doubt that the work has lost its appeal. Has it become
>uncastable?

I think it has been considered uncastable through most of the LP era,
too.  It hasn't really had many recordings, relative to its popularity.
Finding your Sachs and your Walther is a real hurdle.

>It certainly has been noticeably absent from the Met's repertory. The coming
>season's new production has bizarre casting -- Jon Conrad's fantasy David is
>cast as Walther! (Francisco Araiza) 

I kind of half-remembered this when I pencilled Araiza in as "my" David.
I continue to believe that that's his proper role.

>I know that Weikl performs Sachs world-over
>but I expect he will be seriously overparted. 

I was of the same opinion when I saw Weikl do Sachs at Bayreuth in 1988.
I had to admit that he made it work his way -- he was warm and genial,
and rose to the great solo moments with some lyricism.  So I suppose he
deserves his success in the role.  I still find the voice all wrong for
the way Sachs is written, though -- Weikl is a high lyric baritone who
has lost control of the top, which is now how a bass-baritone is made.

>I assume that James Morris will
>learn the part one day. 

What's he waiting for ???

>The good news is the casting of Hermann Prey as Kothner
>(I wonder what his Beckmesser would be like? Better than Fischer-Dieskaus?)

Beckmesser is what Prey is singing at the Met.  (Replacing the
previously announced Hakan Hagegard.)  He has sung the role successfully
in Europe, including a number of seasons at Bayreuth.  (He didn't appear
the year I was there -- he was replaced by Alan Opie, who was just
sensationally good, being a real actor as well as a real singer.)

Jon Alan Conrad
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Glass' music performances
In-reply-to: clldomps@cs.ruu.nl's message of Fri, 21 Aug 1992 10:03:00 GMT
Organization: pubs
Date: 21 Aug 92 12:29:05 CDT

Louis van Dompselaar writes:

   Can anyone tell me about performances of new Philip Glass material
   ... And while you're at it, what exactly is his piece for piano and
   chorus called Requiem?

Can't answer your questions but I was amused to see Glass featured in an
ad for Baldwin pianos, looking as if he had just spent the day polishing
up his Chopin.  (He wasn't using a Baldwin when I saw him perform at the
Roxy in Los Angeles some years back.  I think it may have been a Farfisa.)

Chris Brewster
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks)
Subject: Re: SEARCH Help request
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Reply-To: dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks)
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 04:46:13 GMT

In article <13AUG199208573001@portal.lasc.lockheed.com> le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025)) writes:
>I need help locating two musical items.  
>
>1)  At the end of the movie _Chariots of Fire_ the boys choir is singing, 
>I believe, _Jerusalem_.  Who composed this?  Are there known recordings?
>If so are there recommendations between them, and is the other music by 
>this composer something to look into?  The soundtrack album contains only 
>the final minute of so featuring an annoying fade-in. 

It does only have 16 lines.

The words to "Jerusalem" are by William Blake, and published in "Milton
(1804-1808): II.34.  He was moaning about the effects of the Industrial
Revolution, and feeding off the then popular view of Jerusalem as the
original Shining City On A Hill.  Those who sing this song with patriotic
gusto probably don't stop to think how subversive the words are.  It was
written as four 4-line stanzas, incidentally.

The music is by C.H.H. (Hubert) Parry, and was first performed at a "Fight
For Right" meeting in March, 1916 (ugh).  For annoying copyright reasons,
it's not in many hymnbooks.  He died in 1918, so probably wasn't aware of
the popularity of his biggest hit.  Director of the Royal College of Music
for 24 years.

Parry was not a great orchestrator; Elgar revamped the orchestration, and
it's that version you should get if possible.  The most *enthusiastic*
rendition is probably on one of the Last Night Of The Proms recordings: try
Philips 420 085-2, on which you can hear me laugh at one of Colin Davis's
jokes :-).

Parry also wrote a particularly beautiful hymn-tune, "Repton" (Dear Lord
and Father of Mankind), even if it has quite an awkward range.  Then there
are the choral pieces "Songs of Farewell" (a capella), the coronation
anthem "I Was Glad" (my personal favorite), and "Blest Pair of Sirens",
which has nice tunes but is marred by Milton's usual impenetrability and
correspondingly stodgy orchestration.  He also wrote some symphonies:
Number 5 is bearable.

He was one of a group of second-rank English Victorian/Edwardian composers
who were completely eclipsed by Elgar, although Elgar himself held Parry in
high regard.  If you want similar, but better, music, try also the Elgar
pre-1900 oratorios.
-- 
David Brooks					dbrooks@osf.org
Open Software Foundation			uunet!osf.org!dbrooks
Five more months!  Five more months!
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Transcendental Etudes of Liszt
From: Marco Simionato <simion@iveuncc.unive.it>
Date: 18 Aug 92 11:21:49 +0100
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Venezia
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1a2Lines: 18

>For two completely different approaches try Claudio Arrau and Lazar
Berman.

Ok, but these are recordings of the 1851 (3rd) revision of the studies.
Add to these Cziffra's 1958 recording on EMI.

Back to the original query, the Janice Weber's recording I mentioned
is on IMP MCD10.

I heard Busoni's recording of Feux Follets: one of the most virtuosistic
things I've ever heard. You shouldn't miss it! I know of no other
recordings
by Busoni who, it must be remembered, is perhaps the man who made Liszt
a great composer beside a great pianist. His complete performance of the
12
studies in Berlin in 1910 (?) is most famous.

Marco Simionato
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Recommendations for a beginner
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 03:16:41 GMT

In article <16uk1uINNs41@agate.berkeley.edu> aim@ocf.berkeley.edu (Ali Mirza) writes:
>The title says it all. I'm interested in building a classical music collection
>of the most memorable pieces. Unfortunately, while I know which composers I
>like, I don't have the money to invest in all their works. If any of you 
>know of a list of the most famous works, could you please let me know how to
>get it? Please feeel free to send me your personnal recommendations.
>Thanks

So, which composers do you like best?  That would help us guess at what
you'd find most memorable...

Roger
From: ienne@lamisun3.epfl.ch (Paolo Ienne)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Shostakovich quartets
Date: 14 Aug 92 11:41:03 GMT
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne

Someone asked about a Shostakovich qt recommendation, a few days ago.

My advice is to buy the Fitzwilliam version (I have a few records on LP
and I'm going to buy the full set on CD). Here are the conclusions by 
Peter Marchbank on GRAMOPHONE 6/92:

"The quartets are well worth getting to know and the performances by the
Fitzwilliam Qt., despite being 15 years old, still seems to reach the hearth
of the composer's intentions."

In my opinion the sound is more than acceptable and the performances I know
more compelling than the others I listened to.


Paolo.


===============================================================================

Paolo IENNE
EPFL - Laboratoire de Microinformatique
IN-F Ecublens
CH - 1015 Lausanne

office: +41-21-693 3910 (or 2641)
fax:    +41-21-693 5263
home:   +41-21-25 35 03 (weekdays)
        +39-2-738 83 74 (most week-ends)

email:  ienne@lamisun.epfl.ch
        PSI%022846911008::ELDI::IENNE
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: smoliar@argon.iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar)
Subject: Re: John Cage is Dead
Reply-To: Smoliar@ISS.nus.sg (Stephen Smoliar)
Organization: Institute of Systems Science, NUS, Singapore
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 07:49:26 GMT


This is when I regret being isolated in a country whose news coverage ranges
from non-existent to mediocre.  Will some kind soul please post a statement
with the journalistic fundamentals (like where, when, and how)?  The word came
to me from a colleague whose girlfriend picked it up off the wire at Singapore
Broadcasting;  but if they never bothered to air his music, I doubt that they
will give any air time to reporting his death.
-- 
Stephen W. Smoliar; Institute of Systems Science
National University of Singapore; Heng Mui Keng Terrace
Kent Ridge, SINGAPORE 0511
Internet:  smoliar@iss.nus.sg
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: inr@eccles.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid)
Subject: re: Complete set of LvB piano sonatas
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 16:52:00 GMT

>From: sorin@techunix.technion.ac.il (Goldenberg Sorin)

>1) Is there a complete set of the sonatas played by Stephen Bishop ?

 pass

>2) What is considered "the best" set (except Schnabel) ?

 The Wilhelm Kempff DG set from (I think) the 60s is pretty remarkable
and my candidate for at least the most consistently enlightening and
satisfying (that I've heard) since Schnabel.
Alfred Brendel is another obvious candidate - the 
Phillips set has more depth than the earlier Turnabout (now Vox)
recordings, (although who can argue with the price of the latter!).
Then there are Arrau's magisterial performances, although on occasions
the slow tempi can be rather hard to take. 
 I've heard some excellent performances of individual sonatas by Radu 
Lupu, but I don't know whether he's recorded the complete set.

 Neill Reid   inr@eccles.caltech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ujwb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jeff Beer)
Subject: Re: John Cage is Dead
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:07:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.074926.2690@nuscc.nus.sg> Smoliar@ISS.nus.sg (Stephen Smoliar) writes:
>
>from non-existent to mediocre.  Will some kind soul please post a statement
>with the journalistic fundamentals (like where, when, and how)?  The word came

Died of a stroke in a New York hospital yesterday (Wednesday, Aug 12) in I 
believe the afternoon.   He was about 3 weeks short of his 80th
birthday.

Jeff
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dl@indetech.com (David Lieberman)
Subject: Re: Opera miscastings (Re: Immortal opera recordings)
Organization: Independence Technologies, Inc. Fremont, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 01:24:20 GMT

In article <92226.201105KSSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> KSSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET (Ken Sherrill) writes:
>I want to follow up on a few negatives that, to my mind, are undeserved.
>
>1. I didn't like Ramon Vinay's Bartolo either. I believe Vinay began as a
>baritone, transposed up to tenor for a glorious career, and (after no longer
>being able to negotiate tenor tessitura) returned to being a baritone. The
>bass/baritone distinction was not, in Rossini;s day, what it now is. Many other
>baritones, including Renato Capecchi and Louis Quilico, have tried to extend
>their careers by singing Dr. Bartolo.

A terrible performance by a great artist is still a terrible performance.
On top of that it has the additional burden of sadness and
embarrasment.

>
>2. My understanding is that Irene Dalis undertook Isolde at Jess Thomas'
>request/urging after their joint success in Parsifal. As Jon Conrad described
>Zinka Milanov's advice to Christa Ludwig, mezzo Isoldes endanger their career.
>All I've heard of Dalis' San Francisco Isolde is the Liebestod, which I found
>quite lovely.

Perhaps.  I'd left by then.

>
>3. Barry Morrell was no great artist and he had frequent pitch problems, but
>the voice itself could be quite lovely. There aren't many lirico spinto tenors
>around today as good as Morrell was in his average performances. He could sus-
>tain a lyric line better than Richard Leech, for example, who sings in roughly
>the same fach, but who is much more stentorian.

Granted.  But when you stand in the middle of the stage, eyes glued on
the prompter, who is SHOUTING out your part and occasionally bend your
arm at the elbow to indicate passion, joy, sorrow or whatever... that
is a travesty of the operatic art.
-- 
____*_  David Lieberman             dl@indetech.com
\  / /  Independence Technologies   {sun,uunet,pacbell}!indetech!dl
 \/ /   42705 Lawrence Place        FAX: 510 438-2034
  \/    Fremont, CA 94538           Voice: 510 438-2030
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical