HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Can Wood Trim Survive a Freezing Garage?
Date: 28 Sep 92 15:34:12 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ

In article <1992Sep28.134726.1187@cbfsb.cb.att.com> tln@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (teresa.l.green) writes:

>...... I'd like to move the trim to the garage.  I have an unheated,
>detached garage and I live in Illinois. Will freezing temperatures 
>adversely affect the wood trim?  This concern also applies to the doors. 
>The trim is douglas fir. Since the trim is approximately 90 years old, I am 
>concerned about warping and cracking. Thankyou for any comments or advice.

The temperature changes won't bother it any. What will give you problems
is extreme fluxuations in humidity. If it gets real damp in there, or
very hot and dry in summer, I'd recommend against it. Keep in mind that
most material in lumber yards is stored in open outdoor sheds without
a great deal of problems.

patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    |
George Patterson -  | If you maintain your motorcycle yourself,
                    | eventually you will have two of them.
                    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: edwards@world.std.com (Jonathan Edwards)
Subject: Square-D electrical panel
Organization: IntraNet, Inc.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 13:38:02 GMT

Following advice here and elsewhere, I have asked the electrician on my
new house construction to use a Square-D power panel instead of the cheapo
GE unit the builder usually uses. And also to use all copper wire (they would
use aluminium for the main feed and oven). The price for both of these
upgrades is $960! Is this a reasonable price, and is it worth it???
-- 
Jonathan Edwards				edwards@intranet.com
IntraNet, Inc					617-527-7020
From: kaplan@sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu (Peter Kaplan -Yodh)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Mildew and Shower Curtains
Date: 4 Oct 92 16:22:50 GMT
Followup-To: kaplan@sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu
Organization: Laboratory for Research on the Structure of Matter, University of Pennsylvania

Any ideas for how to
        1) Avoid growing mildew on shower curtains?
        2) Find curtains that are REALLY resistant to mildew?
        3) Clean shower curtains
                 We wash them with regular laundary detergent and bleach
                 in the washing machine.  Is there a better way (that
                 prevents regrowth)?

Many thanks,  I hate cleaning the shower cutain.

--Peter (kaplan@sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu)
From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: More on Vynil Siding
Date: 1 Oct 92 15:55:38 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ

In article <30SEP199217394941@watson.bms.com> ram@watson.bms.com (Gena Ram) writes:

>............................................  Where can I purchase 
>the material (I have never seen it for sale in a home improvement store)?

Home Depot sells it. The local branch doesn't stock much, so I assume you
would have to order the amount you'd need. They have several styles and
about seven colors available. They also stock a vinyl siding shingle that's
a dead ringer for the hard asbestos shingles commonly used in this area in
the 50s.

>* It seems to me that the most skill-intensive part would be wrapping the 
>soffits, facia, and trim.  Is this difficult?  Are special tools required?  
>How about letting a contractor do this phase (I beleive it is done first) and 
>doing the straightforward siding ourselves?

The hardest part is cutting the pieces that butt against the end of a soffit
or wall. These must be cut precisely to look good. If you've competent to
cut the main wall siding, you're skillfull enough to do the whole job.

I too have only watched it being installed, but I was able to get pretty
close for days on end (since I was doing the sheet rock installation on
the same job). Professionals start at the bottom and sides of the walls
and work up. I would bet that it would be difficult or impossible to do
the soffits first.

>* Am I going to save that much money by DIY, half? 1/4?  Any educated guesses?

If labor costs in your area are anything like they are here, materials
will cost you about 1/3 the cost of having a contractor do the job.
Your mileage...

patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    |
George Patterson -  | Of course truth is stranger than fiction; after
                    | all, good fiction must make sense.
                    |                        Samuel Clemens
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: abbott@priory.enet.dec.com (Robert Abbott)
Subject: Re: Medeco deadbolts
Organization: TP Performance
Distribution: usa
Date:  5 OCT 92 15:00:34    


In article <1992Oct5.172952.6925@exu.ericsson.se>, exukev@exu.ericsson.se (Kevin Autrey) writes...
>I've gone around to a couple of locksmiths and they've all quoted me
>around *** $170.00 *** for a double cylinder (key on each side) Medeco
>deadbolt (I explained that I didn't want the GOLD PLATED model - just
>the standard Bright Brass would do).  
> 
>In that $170 is an AWFUL lot to pay for a lock (apparently though, THE
>deadbolt to have if you want secure deadbolts), I'm wondering are
>Medeco locks available for retail sale through Home Depot's, Payless
>Cashways or the like?  I've looked, but been unable to find anything
>other than Weiserlocks and Kwiksets.
> 
>Any info would be appreciated.
> 

$170 does sound very high, perhaps that is an installed price?
I would expect something around $100. However, there are different
product lines (levels of security) that Medeco offers (not
just trim). Perhaps you got a quote on the full-blown key registration
system.

I don't think you will find Medeco locks any other place than a
locksmith. Even then, most locksmiths buy their Mededos from
a few authorized Medeco dealers in the area. That is, only 
authorized dealers can cut new keys for the locks.

The main advantages for Medeco are:
1. Pick proof
2. Drill proof
3. Controlled (registered) key distribution

If your door, striker plate or door jamb are weak then a Medeco
won't do you a bit of good. (See the results in Consumer Reports)
Most theives kick the door down, they don't stop to pick the lock.

My approach is to beef up the door itself so that it cannot be
kicked in. This means inspecting hinges, the door stile (where
the lock lives) and installing a high security striker plate with
3" screws or better. You want the screws to pass through the door
frame into the 2x6 framing stud.

Then I chose a heavy duty deadbolt from Schlage. This will run 
$40-50 at a discounter like Home Depot. Note Schlage (as most lock
companies) manufacture several lines. The cheapest line is usually
what is sold at discounters in the $20-25 price range. For Schlage,
this is the brown and yellow plastic package.  The heavy duty line
is the purple plastic package.  You can also buy the heavy duty
line in the more non-descript carboard boxes (this is how you'll
find them at the locksmith.)

I welcome comments on this approach.

------------------------
Robert K. Abbott
abbott@tay1.dec.com
From: emolinar@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Elizabeth Molinaro)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: siding options?
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:21:25 GMT
Reply-To: emolinar@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Elizabeth Molinaro)
Organization: Stakeholder Relations, NCR Corp in Dayton,OH

In article <1992Sep28.171309.2653@meteor.wisc.edu> foley@meteor.wisc.edu
writes:
>Hello!  My wife and I are living in a very old wooden house (it was built in
>the 1870s).  Paint does not last very long on this beast.  It was painted
every
>8 years or so for the last 30 years without much luck.  Paint just seems to
>peel right off the sucker.   We don't want to do this.  So, we are
considering 
>the options for various kinds of siding and such.  
>
>Any suggestions would be appreciated!  Email would be fine, or else post
>your responses here - they may be of general interest.  Thanks!
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

        I know what you mean....I have a nice 1920's jobby that seems to
        repel paint.

        We have, after much soul searching, decided on vinyl siding.
        I am, truly, probably morally opposed to the stuff but I cannot
        argue with the cost savings (over the long and short run: painting
        this time will cost AS MUCH as the siding) and increase in insula-
        tion (even if minimal it will be an improvement!).

        We have chosen a brand of siding from a manufacturer who makes
        "historical" patterns:  clapboarding with "edges", scallops, trim,
        and beadboard: all in vinyl.  

        Good luck.  It's a tough decision.  But I can't wait, in the
        end, to have a pretty house: one that I love coming home to,
        rather than one the looks awful all the time...and then of 
        course, there's the lovely lead paint chipping all over in
        a neighborhood full of kids and pets.


        Elizabeth

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: rhoover@watson.ibm.com (Roger Hoover)
Subject: Re: Cleaning Oriental Rugs
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:12:02 GMT
Distribution: na
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <1992Sep29.184144.1511@desktalk.desktalk.com>, eric@desktalk.com (Eric Lieber) writes:
|> Is there a way that I can clean my orienetal rug, ( a Boukara), myself.
|> One idea I've had is to use an ELECTROLUX carpet cleaner with water only, then let it dry. 
|> Is it possible to just hose it down with water & let it dry outside?
|> 
|> Do I have to use a professional service?

Well, I once called a professional service, acted very concerned
about the well being of my rug, and they told ma all of the details
of how they wash them.  What I have done successfully:

Wait for a nice dry warm day.  Take the rug out to your driveway
(you do have a driveway, don't you) which you have already cleaned.
Soak the rug with cold water.  Take a bucket with woolite and water
and slop on with a rag.  After soaking for a bit, suck up the stuff
with a wet/dry vac.  Rinse a couple of times.  Let dry in the sun
for a couple of days, turning over every now and then.  Hang it up
if you can, but they are very heavy.

roger
rhoover@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,misc.invest.real-estate
From: mcbride@rust.zso.dec.com (Melinda McBride)
Subject: Re: realty-reality dictionary v 1.0b
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:27:04 GMT

Here's another one (I'm currently renting this house):


Terraced lot:  eight-foot drop off; requires a ladder to get from front
               yard to back yard.


Mac
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: sweet@adobe.com (Dick Sweet)
Subject: Re: Gas piping question
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 23:25:37 GMT

There have been several postings recently about DIY gas plumbing, so I'm
passing along a couple of experiences from my kitchen remodel of several
years back.

I moved the location of my gas range to the other side of my kitchen.  I'm
on a slab, so the gas (and water) pipe is in the attic.  I rearranged things
by taking out the branch that ran to the old location and putting in a new
branch down to the new location.  Two things that I remember as rather
painful:

1. The plumbing inspector would not let me use a union in a place that I had
planned.  It would have still been accessable after the ceiling was back
on the kitchen, but not with enough headroom to make him happy.  I had to peel
things back through several elbows and use solid pipe in that part of the
world.  He did allow me a union in another part of the attic where one could
stand up.

2.  When I was done, the entire house had to pass a pressure test on the
gas line.  This is done by disconnecting the meter, closing all valves, pumping
the system up to 15 PSI with a bicycle pump and having the meter still read
15 PSI an hour or so later (I've forgotten the exact protocol).  The work
that I had done was solid, but an existing gas line had a slow leak.
Unfortunately, the leaking line went under one of the upstairs bedrooms
and made a right angle jog under the middle of the floor (which was covered
with seamless vinyl).  I was lucky that the leaking joint was on the other
end of one of the pipes that stuck out into the attic.  I was able to cut
it, tighten the leaking joint and put in a new union.

               ______________________________________
               |                                     |
               |         Bedroom                     |
               |                                     |
               |                                     |
  Heater  =====|===================                  |
               |                 ||                  |
               |                 ||  leaking joint   | new union
               |                 ||  /               |  /
               |                 || /                | /
               |                 ||==================|=====  Attic
               |                                     |
               |                                     |
               |                                     |
               |                                     |
               |_____________________________________|

On the whole, I'd say that DIY gas plumbing is not for the faint-at-heart
(and should be done with a permit and a picky inspector).

Dick Sweet
From: davek@informix.com (David Kosenko)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Electric Drill Recommendation
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:48:25 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1992Oct1.174329.1886@adobe.com> bennett@adobe.com writes:
>Mark Breland writes
>> 
>> Don't mess around...any model Craftsman from Sears.  Take your pick on the
>> features you want.  If it breaks, you get a new one.
>
>The general consensus over in rec.woodworking is that there are much better 
>tools, and better buys, than you get at Sears - even on "sale."

Let me start off by saying that I am in general agreement with the
sentiment  "buy Craftsman if the tool has no moving parts" (in direct
contrast to my Dad, who just went out and bought a new Sears 10" table
saw).

I was in Sears a few weeks back to buy a biscuit cutter attachment for my
(borrowed from Dad) Sears router.  I noticed that they are now selling
Makita, Skil, and one other brand I have forgotten hand tools.  So buying
from Sears yet avoiding Craftsman may be an option (I didn't check their
prices on these tools).

One other point: since Sears does not make their own tools, the underlying
quality will depend on who is the oem.  Some of the stuff may be decent
quality (although Sears warantee is none too swift).  Certainly their
older stuff was pretty good (I am in possession of my Dad's 30 year old
Craftsman 8.25" table saw - my borrowing it was his excuse for buying a
new one - that is still working pretty good. At 1/2hp, the motor is small
for some cuts, but I still use it for quick crosscutting - easier than pulling
the jetlock off the Delta).

Dave
-- 
Disclaimer: These opinions are not those of Informix Software, Inc.
**************************************************************************
The heart and the mind on a parallel course, never the two shall meet.
						-E. Saliers
From: rudolph@sparc20.hri.com (David Rudolph)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: fireplace doors
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:53:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: bigbird.7319
Reply-To: rudolph@sparc20.hri.com (David Rudolph)
Organization: Horizon Research


Can anyone say from experience what will be the difference over time
between buying a set of solid brass fireplace doors (generally 
> $400 at fireplace stores) and a set of brass plated doors, which
go for under $150 at discount department stores. Is the difference
really enough to make it worth paying 3-4 times the price?


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

David Rudolph                   |       phone: (617) 466-8370
Horizon Research, Inc.          |       email: rudolph@hri.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: smb@ulysses.att.com (Steven Bellovin)
Subject: Re: Sears tools (was Electric Drill Recommendation)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 01:23:10 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <91253@rphroy.ph.gmr.com>, rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com (Bob Haar) writes:
> You don't need to apologize for recommending Sears tools. The original
> request was for a drill to be used by someone new to
> do-it-yourself work.
> 
> I have been doing woodworking and home remodelling for almost 25
> years and have a number of Sears tools, including both stationary
> and portable power tools. I have retired several as I progressed in
> my woodworking skills and took on more ambitious projects. But this
> just means that my requirements changed.

Umm -- I haven't participated in this round of Sears-bashing, but I
do share the sentiments.  The feeling of many -- including me -- is that
*recent* Sears tools just aren't as good as the ones they used to make.
Put another way, Sears is still living on the reputation they built
up 20+ years ago -- and it's no longer entirely deserved.  There have
been many complaints in rec.woodworking about Sears tools that died a
very early death.  On the other hand, my father's 38-year-old Sears table
saw is, except for the Unifence, a match for my new Delta Contractor's saw.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: ram@watson.bms.com (Gena Ram)
Subject: More on Vynil Siding
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Bristol Myers Squibb Pharmaceutical Research Institute
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 22:39:00 GMT






Not to spark anymore Vinyl vs. Wood controversy, my husband and I have decided 
to side our house in vinyl.  We are doing it because it is actually considered 
a selling feature here, the house is not worth all that much money and it has 
no architectural significance.  I personally don't like it, but I think this 
is the best solution.

My questions:

* We have received bids from $18,000 to $8,000 for the same job, same 
material.  In light of this, it makes choosing a contractor difficult.  
Watching jobs being done, it does not look like a difficult process.  We are 
not weak of heart, we have replaced all of the windows, wiring, plumbing and 
most walls ourselves.  Has anyone done this themselves?  Where can I purchase 
the material (I have never seen it for sale in a home improvement store)?


* It seems to me that the most skill-intensive part would be wrapping the 
soffits, facia, and trim.  Is this difficult?  Are special tools required?  
How about letting a contractor do this phase (I beleive it is done first) and 
doing the straightforward siding ourselves?


* Am I going to save that much money by DIY, half? 1/4?  Any educated guesses?

I apreciate any input anyone may have, short of talking me into clapboard!

Thanks,  Gena
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: davel@booboo.SanDiego.NCR.COM (David Lord)
Subject: Re: IN-LINE WATER HEATERS
Reply-To: davel@booboo.SanDiego.NCR.COM (David Lord)
Organization: NCR Corporation, Rancho Bernardo
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:10:31 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.152457.9048@i88.isc.com> jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist) writes:
>In article <horwath.717449276@geode11> horwath@rtsg.mot.com (George Horwath) writes:
>>If inline heaters are soooooooo good, why aren't they used in commercial
>>situations? In health clubs with many showers in the locker room, they
>>just use a much larger tank than for a home.
>
>Simple.  It's because the building contractor who got the job doesn't
>care squat about operating costs after he's out of there, nor about
>energy efficiency or anything else.  He's trying to complete the terms
>of the contract at low cost, to maximize his profit.

Actually in-line water heaters have a really bad reputation in this
country. Reliability has been a big problem (corosion and hard-water
deposits) and alot more maintanance can be required. Also many people
who've tried them complain that they don't maintain a steady temperature.

While they've been used in Europe for many years, many
people I know who've travelled through Europe say the state of plumbing
there is appalling.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: englhq@elroy.uh.edu (Franklet, Duane L.)
Subject: Mortage Negotiating?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 23:51:00 GMT

I am a first-time home shopper, and I've approached a few lenders
to discuss the process and the fees involved. There seem to be about
$1600 worth of miscellaneous fees: $375 appraisal and credit report,
$175 underwriting fee, $100 processing fee, etc, etc. (I'm sure many of
you know the story well.) In addition, a 1% origination fee seems
to be pretty standard here in Houston.

I'm wondering if any of these items are negotiable, and, if so, 
to what extent? 

Any advice appreciated!

Duane Franklet
englhq@jetson.uh.edu
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: drmax@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Marianna Max)
Subject: Re: Leveling floors: another inquiry
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 15:50:57 GMT

In article <1992Sep23.180400.1@woods.ulowell.edu> callahanj@woods.ulowell.edu writes:
>I am very interested in the discussion about leveling floors.  There is one
>room in the older ranch house I just bought that has a definite rise and fall
>to it.  I think I will get used to it but I was wondering how to deal with
>it if I wanted to level the room.  It is about 10X12 and is used as a
>study/computer room.  The house was reinforced substantially by the previous
>owners and is very stable.  there are leveling problems in severa rooms but
>none as bad as the study.
>
>The tough part is that the hardwood floor is in great shape.  I guess I have to
>sacrifice it to overlay it. Can I start
>laying shims on top of the hardwood and then lay a second subfloor?
>Then a hardwood floor or carpet on top of this?
>
>I am going to stay in the house a few years and then we will move.  Is it all
>worth it?


I'm coming in late on this discussion but I don't see why one has to remove
any flooring to level the floors. Of course this assumes that one has a
crawl space under the house that is sufficiently tall to work in, actually
it doesn't have to be all that tall since one can manage this work lying on
ones back or stomache. I used to replace joists that had dryrot from under 
the house with no ill effects to the floor. On occasion I even replaced 
patches of subfloor that had rotted without having to remove the top flooring. 

The way I would do it is to take my level under the room and work out just
how low the low spots are. Then you have two options assuming we are
talking about correction of a few inches at most. 1) set concrete
blocks under the joists that are low, and cut posts to fit the desired height
increase for each joist. Then using another beam as a lifter to catch 2-3
joists, and a couple of screw type jacks, lift the joists enough to put the
new posts into place. Do this slowly, listening for sounds of stress on the
walls. This works best in situations where the house has settled into this
shape and probably shouldn't be used in situations where the floor was
built with a slope in the first place. 2) This is easier but I don't think 
its as good a fix. Drive shims (usually wooden shingles) between the 
subfloor and the low joists. Start with narrow strips and then fill in gaps
between subfloor and joist with pieces cut to fit.

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house