From: hahn@plugh.network.com (Peter Hahn)
Subject: Re: Savate and Muay Thai kicking principles (was Boxing and Kicks)
Organization: Network Systems Corporation
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 21:01:08 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.193442.20194@PA.dec.com> stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com
(Todd I. Stark) mistakes me for someone knowledgeable:

>
>In article <1992Sep10.184100.27829@ns.network.com>, hahn@plugh.network.com 
>(Peter Hahn) writes...
>
>>Possibly -- this seems to be the case with Kyokushinkai and its
>>offshoots.  On the other hand, not necessarily: consider Savate, or PKA
>>style kickboxing.  Neither style is terribly similar to Muay Thai.  And
>>Savate, like Muay Thai, even allows leg kicks.
>> 
>
>Peter (or others knowledgable in these two arts) :
>
>	Would you please describe the difference in approach for me ?

Well, I'm not knowledgable, but that's never stopped me from running
my mouth...

The commonly given analogy is that a Muay Thai kick is like a blow with a
baseball bat, and a Savate kick is like a blow with a ball-peen hammer.

Muay Thai really only has two kicks.  One is what's called a foot jab --
done like a front kick, but used more to position one's opponent -- sort
of as a push.  The other kick -- this is the one that people usually
are talking about -- is a round kick, almost always thrown off the
rear leg, and done with one's body weight fully committed.  I.e., if
you miss, you end up spinning a 360.  The leg is kept more or less
straight throughout.  It most definitely is not a snap kick  (it is
said that Thai trainers have a habit of knocking out people who throw
snap kicks during a pad drill).  One makes contact with one's shin,
BTW.  Typically, the kick is thrown to "uke's" legs, ribs, or head.

OK, so that's Muay Thai -- you're throwing haymakers, all the time.

Savate has a greater repertoire -- commonly seen techniques
are a roundhouse, done either with the instep (for kicking the legs),
or with the toe (remember, they had shoes), to the ribs, head, or
wherever; a sort of sidekick (used, as near as I can tell, a lot
like Thai fighters use a footjab); and the "coup de bas" (more
or less what some people call an oblique kick) -- a kind of soccer
style kick to one's opponent's ankle; a front kick, either rising
(with the instep), or with the toe (I think -- we usually don't
do that one).  They also have stuff like crescent and spin kicks,
with which I am almost totally unfamiliar.

Most of the above would probably qualify as snap kicks -- at any rate,
the kicks are usually retracted.  Commonly, one will see someone kick
two or three times without setting down the leg, in different lines, in
a manner not dissimilar to good, old-fashioned tournament karate.  The
kicks have sort of an odd, stylized look.  They can be, and often are,
very deceptive.

In last week's discussion, you talked about good boxers targeting
specific areas.  Good savatuers are supposedly capable of targeting
specific areas (liver, solar plexus, etc), in much the same fashion.
Precise, that's the word :-).

I'm sure advanced practitioners of either art can do a lot more than
I've talked about, and are, to some extent, capable of working the
other side of the street, but, anyway, that's how it looks to a
hopeless perennial beginner such as myself.  So, that's it in a
nutshell, near as I know.  Bat vs. hammer, broadsword vs. rapier, pick
your analogy...

-- 
Peter Hahn           |hahn@network.com|"...Ch'en worked in a drugstore on the
7600 Boone Ave. N    |+1 612 424-4888 |second story...and at noon each day he
Brooklyn Park, MN USA|                |would leave for lunch in an eccentric
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