HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bobf@intermec.com (Bob Folline)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Which handle to pull?  (Was Re: AAD Question)
Date: 17 Apr 92 02:40:37 GMT
Reply-To: bobf@intermec.com (Bob Folline)
Organization: Intermec Corporation, Everett WA

>>I agree with the fact that there is some altitude below which I would 
>>pull my reserve first, probably 700-500 ft, not 1300 ft.  At that altitude
>>your only going to get one chance and your reserve is your best bet.
>>I would be interested in hearing what other jumpers think is the cross
>>over point between pulling your main or your reserve first.

I have had a "Grand opening" only one time in 15 years of jumping.  My choice
was for the main, (a Mark IV PC), not the reserve.  I got to 1000 feet only
as the canopy was open and felt this much too low.  However the reason for 
getting to the low altitude was failure to break off by other jumpers at a
reasonable altitude.  This was on my 28th jump and only two jumps off student
status.

The problem I have with your question is planning for opening at low altitude.
You obviously will someday be another statistic in the sport.  If the group
you are jumping with regularly pulls low,  it is time to get a new group.
Skydiving cannot afford the bad press by "Stupidity Kills".

Please keep the breakoffs to a good altitude and use the reserve only
because the main had a problem.  If you open high and leave some room you
can take care of problems without panic.
>
>     Unfortunately, in the beginning months of my RW jumps, I have made
>     a few low pulls.  It's amazing how complete concentration on keeping
>     up with the skygods can do that to you.

It is a wonderful sport but you have to continue living to stay in it.
Of the friends I lost in the sport over the years only one was due to
a problem.  All the rest were due to regular low pulls and then one day
they had a minor problem and no altitude to fix it.

When John Bird went in at Paris, none of us who knew him were surprised.
After 4 years of low openings he had a minor problem and worked on it
till impact.


Don't do low openings!  The result will one day be death!

>     Anyway, I have dumped my main at altitudes as low as 800 ft.

Why dont you just go bungie jumping?

>     In answer to your question about opinions, I think that I would go
>     for my reserve first at 600/700 ft.

So would I because if I got to 600 or 700 feet it is because my main could
not be flown safely.

>     My main opens fairly fast, and I have come to trust it.  Stupid??,
>     MAYBE.

So do I at 3500 to 2500 feet!
>
>     One man's opinion deserves another man's flame!

You got it.

>     Steve C-21030

Bob Folline  D-9512

P.S.  Please lets not have this discussion.  People will start thinking
they have to pull low to be a "Sky God".  They may have to account to
a different god than they had planned.

By the way I have lost 5 friends to stupidity over the years.  I really
dont want to see anybody else die of stupidity.

An AAD may have made this posting invalid.
From: robbins@ecs.umass.edu
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: DZ's in Northcentral Massachusettes?
Date: 16 Apr 92 00:36:43 GMT

In article <4190003@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, boucher@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Richard A Boucher Jr) writes:
>  Can anybody give me some info on any DZ's in Northcentral Massachusettes?
> I'll be there from 4/19 thru 4/23 and would like to check one out...
> 
> Thanks.     
> :c

I have two favorites.  One is in Pepperill ma.  near the New Hampshire 
border.  You can jump in Massachusetts and land in New Hampshire : )
Some good RW goes on there and the folks are really friendly.  The
Fort Devens crew hangs there and provides a lot of fun.

The other is in Turner's Falls.  Turner's has a mixed crowd with the
gang from the Umass Sport Parachute club calling it home.  

Northampton has some jumping but I dont know too much about it.

				Steve


Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: dpuchals@caen.engin.umich.edu (Douglas Puchalski)
Subject: Saved by the Sentinel
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 92 21:02:49 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

AAD Incident report:

On April 5, 1992, a student exitted at 3.5k feet from a Cessna 182
on his first static line jump.  He was wearing an SST Racer with
a Manta main and a spring loaded (freefall) pilot chute.

He apparently negative arched on his hanging exit (pushed off?) and
went immediately back to earth.  The static line extracted the pin
and began to pull out the pilot chute, but somehow either the
bridle or the main's lines got wrapped around his arm.

Uh oh.  This seems to be the WORST possible malfunction for a 
student.  He's got lines around his arms, and a bag out that's
not opening.  All those lines flying around would scare the hell
out of me.

I assume this all means that the pilot chute and/or bridle was
caught on his arm.

He attempted to get "it" off his arm, and as we watched from the
ground (in horror:  I forgot **all** about his AAD).  Right before
we would lose sight of him behind the trees, with everyone saying
"pull it man!" (ala Fandango) we saw the round reserve open.

The jumpmaster followed him out.  They landed in between four 
houses with large (thank God) yards.  He was OK!

The cutaway handle was found near him, and neighbors found the
reserve handle some unkown distance away (not too great, the
wind was LV so he probably went almost straight down).  He claims
that he pulled the reserve and thought that he opened it, but
investigation revealed the AAD did fire.  However, I don't think
it would be unusual for the AAD to fire right after the handle
is pulled, if close enough to the firing altitude.  (It was a
sentinel AAD, the one with the green and red light, I forget
the model #).

All of this leads *me* to believe that he pulled his reserve and
*then* cut away.  But whatever he did, he was lucky his reserve
didn't entangle with all of those lines.

Whew.

AAD's:  I'll definately have one.  If another jumper knocks me 
unconscious, I'll want to live.  Or if I just screw up.  It
happens.
From: pat@moscom.UUCP (Product Assurance Testing)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Which handle to pull?  (Was Re: AAD Question)
Date: 14 Apr 92 12:02:31 GMT
Reply-To: pat@moscom.UUCP (Product Assurance Testing)
Organization: Moscom Corp., Pittsford, NY

>
>I agree with the fact that there is some altitude below which I would 
>pull my reserve first, probably 700-500 ft, not 1300 ft.  At that altitude
>your only going to get one chance and your reserve is your best bet.
>I would be interested in hearing what other jumpers think is the cross
>over point between pulling your main or your reserve first.



     Unfortunately, in the beginning months of my RW jumps, I have made
     a few low pulls.  It's amazing how complete concentration on keeping
     up with the skygods can do that to you.

     Anyway, I have dumped my main at altitudes as low as 800 ft.

     In answer to your question about opinions, I think that I would go
     for my reserve first at 600/700 ft.

     My main opens fairly fast, and I have come to trust it.  Stupid??,
     MAYBE.

     One man's opinion deserves another man's flame!


     Steve C-21030
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRCCCCCCCCCCHHHHHHH
From: mertes@vax.sonoma.edu
Date: 11 Apr 92 23:54:38 -0800
Organization: Sonoma State University
Summary: fun

So you will exit here, and look up for mae west and the WDI 
indicator, leaving the plane frog modified. If you dont see mae west 
than toggle and jettison......
AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRCCCCCCCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHHH
just a little fun.

seen fandago?
From: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.FIDONET.ORG (SKYDIVE)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Any reasons not to get a Cypress AAD?
Date: 5 Apr 92 19:16:17 GMT

Reply-to: Chris.Irwin@p0.f68.n110.z1.fidonet.org (Chris Irwin)
Fido-To: jmills@cass.ma02.bull.com

> Will the explosive sniffing dogs seek me out?
> (The Cypress uses a small pyrotechnic device to open the
> reserve)
 
Then it's illegal to take this with you as checked luggage.  You'll probably get arrested trying to carry a threatening explosive device onto a plane. The judge might believe you, but the security cops probably won't.
 
One time I had to argue about carrying my rig on board, just because the guy had some idea that all rigs had these "explosive, pressure-sensitive things that would blow up."   I convinced him that my rig contained no exposives after a while and they let me take it.

--- DB A1065/009283
--- eecp 1.45 LM2 

 * Origin: BETA 1063 available - 300 baud MINIMUM! (1:110/68)
--  
SKYDIVE - via FidoNet node 1:233/13    (ehsnet.fidonet.org)
From: yzarn@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: AAD Question
Date: 6 Apr 92 19:22:09 GMT
Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research, La Habra, CA.

In article <11981@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> bonitz@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Bob Bonitz) writes:
>One last point.  The bulk of the fatalities listed in Parachutist where
>one sees the phrase "an AAD may have prevented this fatality" might also
>include the phrase "a brain may have prevented this fatality."  In 
>addition to examining the potential benefits of widespread AAD use, we
>should also continue to emphasize better and continued training to 
>reduce fatalities due to brain malfunctions.

Hear! Hear!
-- 
  Philip Yzarn de Louraille                 Internet: yzarn@chevron.com
  Research Support Division                 Unix & Open Systems
  Chevron Information & Technology Co.      Tel: (310) 694-9232
  P.O. Box 446, La Habra, CA 90633-0446     Fax: (310) 694-7709
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: tjreynol@zephyr.cair.du.edu (The Jumpin Dude)
Subject: Re: Saved by the Sentinel
Organization: University of Denver
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 15:09:18 GMT


can you post that a dozen or so more times?

i missed the first few
From: kim@i5160e.nrl.navy.mil (Ellis Kim)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: paragliding,skydiving and hang-gliding
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:00:26 GMT
Distribution: rec.skydiving

I have done some hang-gliding and recently did a bungee jump.
The most enjoyable part of the bungee jump was the first second spent
in freefall.  I think i would very much enjoy skydiving and am planning to
try it out in the fall. (am kind of short on cash till then)
Anyway, as i said i have done some hang-gliding and really enjoy the sport.
I also heard about para-gliding and that you can soar with those chutes as
well as you can with hang-gliding. 

So i thought why not combine those two.  Can one skydive with a paraglider?
enjoy the freefall and then after having pulled the chute, go soaring for
an hour or so?  Does anybody in this group do that? Has anyone heard of 
anyone else doing it?  


--- Ellis
-- 
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
email to:        | My professors are not at fault.  | First things first.  
70kim@cua.bitnet | These thoughts are my own        | But not necessarily 
                 | I am not a grad student yet.     | in that order.  - who
From: yzarn@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Which handle to pull?  (Was Re: AAD Question)
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:05:08 GMT
Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research, La Habra, CA.

In article <3477@moscom.UUCP> pat@moscom.UUCP (Product Assurance Testing) writes:
>>
>>I agree with the fact that there is some altitude below which I would 
>>pull my reserve first, probably 700-500 ft, not 1300 ft.  At that altitude
>>your only going to get one chance and your reserve is your best bet.
>>I would be interested in hearing what other jumpers think is the cross
>>over point between pulling your main or your reserve first.
>
>
>
>     Unfortunately, in the beginning months of my RW jumps, I have made
>     a few low pulls.  It's amazing how complete concentration on keeping
>     up with the skygods can do that to you.

Steve, I have a hard time understanding your last sentence. In other
words, how can "keeping up with the skygods" make you dump low????
>
>     Anyway, I have dumped my main at altitudes as low as 800 ft.
>
>     In answer to your question about opinions, I think that I would go
>     for my reserve first at 600/700 ft.
>
>     My main opens fairly fast, and I have come to trust it.  Stupid??,
>     MAYBE.
>
>     One man's opinion deserves another man's flame!
-- 
  Philip Yzarn de Louraille                 Internet: yzarn@chevron.com
  Research Support Division                 Unix & Open Systems
  Chevron Information & Technology Co.      Tel: (310) 694-9232
  P.O. Box 446, La Habra, CA 90633-0446     Fax: (310) 694-7709
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: mtimko@pdx066.intel.com (Mark Timko)
Subject: Re: Which handle to pull?  (Was Re: AAD Question)
Reply-To: mtimko@ichips.intel.com
Organization: Workgroup Computing Division, PDX, Intel
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 15:13:57 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.065537.779@zia.aoc.nrao.edu>, dbriggs@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Daniel Briggs) writes:
|> In article <1992Apr8.202914.11562@ichips.intel.com>
|>  mtimko@ichips.intel.com writes:
|> >I would rather deal with two canopies than ASSUME my AAD will fire
|> >and pull my reserve instead just in case.  I don't think you'll see 
|> >the USPA supporting your recommendation all too soon.  The biggest 
|> >reason is for those people with reserve static lines (which is 
|> >recommended), pulling your reserve first means you don't get a second 
|> >chance.  Even if you don't have a RSL, your logic would have you pull 
|> >a reserve that could possibly malfunction and CANNOT be cut away. If 
|> >you then pulled your main, it would probably get tangled in the 
|> >malfunctioned reserve and then your really screwed.
|> 
|> Ummm, maybe I'm dense, but I don't follow your reasoning.  What does an RSL
|> have to do with anything?  Are you assuming that the presence of an RSL
|> allows one to cut away lower than someone without one?  I grant you that
|> there probably is a slight difference here, but I but that it's less than
|> 100' feet of altitude for an experienced jumper who's on the ball.
|> Certainly it's a lot less cutting away from an even half inflated canopy.

Forget about my argument on RSL's. Minor brain fart on my part but the 
argument of not being able to cut away a malfunctioned reserve still
holds.

I agree with the fact that there is some altitude below which I would 
pull my reserve first, probably 700-500 ft, not 1300 ft.  At that altitude
your only going to get one chance and your reserve is your best bet.
I would be interested in hearing what other jumpers think is the cross
over point between pulling your main or your reserve first.

- Mark Timko
  A-11659
-- 
                  Mark A. Timko  (mtimko@ichips.intel.com)
      My opinions are mine, not my employer's - all disclaimers apply 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 Never forget: A bad day skydiving is always better than a good day at work  
     Two wrongs don't make a right but three rights make a left ..... right?
From: pat@moscom.UUCP (Product Assurance Testing)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: AAD Question
Date: 9 Apr 92 12:17:29 GMT
Reply-To: pat@moscom.UUCP (Product Assurance Testing)
Organization: Moscom Corp., Pittsford, NY

>
>One last point.  The bulk of the fatalities listed in Parachutist where
>one sees the phrase "an AAD may have prevented this fatality" might also
>include the phrase "a brain may have prevented this fatality."  


     This is one of the smartest things I've read yet concerning all
     these postings about AAD's.

     Be smart when your jumping and never forget the golden rule
     "He who Hesitates,  Shall Inherit the Earth!!"


     It's kind of funny. I was watching the movie Top Gun again for the
     100th time the other day.  When the students first arrive at the
     school, remember when they are talking about dogfighting?  The
     instructor says that during vietnam, the kill ratio of our pilots
     to their pilots had increased because they became dependent on
     missles, instead of their flying techniques.

     This got me thinking that before audible alarms and AAD's, what
     did people use to tell them when to pull. Hmmmmm! Maybe their
     own sensible altitude awareness.

     Maybe we should concentrate on promoting good altitude awareness
     and less on what devices we can use to compensate for the lack
     there of?????


     One of those things that make you go,     Hmmmmmmmm!!


     Steve Albert  C-21030
From: artb@hplsla.hp.com (Art Bori)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 17:03:24 GMT
Subject: Colorado DZ info request
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving

Is it jumpable in Colorado?  I'll be either in Fort Collins or Colorado
Springs at the end of the month.  Should I bring my gear?  How cold is it?
Any info will be appreciated.

Blue skies,
Art Bori
D-11402
From: jmills@cass.ma02.bull.com (John Luke Mills)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Which handle to pull?  (Was Re: AAD Question)
Date: 10 Apr 92 20:02:37 GMT
Organization: Bull World Wide Information Systems Inc.

There seem to be some questions about some of my reasoning on AADs,
when to pull the reserve instead of the main, etc.

This was particularly true of my comment that if you are at 1,300
feet in free-fall, it would probably be better to pull your reserve even
if you don't have an AAD.

Philip Yzarn de Louraille and others correctly inferred that I think a reserve
generally will open faster than a main, is better maintained, etc.

Even Mark Timko, who originally objected most strenuously to the idea of ever
deploying the reserve before the main, finally admitted,
"I agree with the fact that there is some altitude below which I would 
pull my reserve first, probably 700-500 ft, not 1300 ft.  At that altitude
your only going to get one chance and your reserve is your best bet."

So it seems we have some consensus that at some low altitude your
reserve is the way to go.  All I added was that people with AADs
should consider raising that altitude a bit to avoid having the main
and reserve fighting for the same air during opening.

I doubt USPA would object to this idea.  At 1,300 ft, you are already
below the officially recommended altitude to cut-away.  How could they
fault you for pulling reserve?  I personally define being in free-fall
at 1,300 ft an emergency situation.  You are about 6.5 seconds away
from impact.


                )
         o     /
        >     /    )__  __
       /     /    /   )   )
      /     (    /   (   (
  (__/
--
From: jwas_ss@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Jason Wasson)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Geting started
Date: 17 Apr 92 00:14:59 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

I would like to try sky diving this summer. I  was wondering if anyone
could provide a criterion that I could use in picking a school for the
first jump.  Also how much does it usually cost and what kind of physical
condition do you need to be in?


						Thanks,
						Jason Wasson
					jwas_ss@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: dpuchals@caen.engin.umich.edu (Douglas Puchalski)
Subject: Re: Saved by the Sentinel
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 21:40:29 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

Thanks, I meant to do that...
From: jld@lookout.uswest.com (Jeffrey DeMent)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Skydiving Vacation
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:28:26 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Originator: jld@lookout

I'm planning on taking a skydiving vacation - leaving Denver
and travelling to Phoenix Arizona (and passing through
Albuquerque).  I already know Eloy is on my agenda and
possibly Marina Skydiving Center (opinions ?), are there
any good DZ's in New Mexico I could stop at for a jump or
two along the way ?

Thanks.
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: koning@koning.enet.dec.com (Paul Koning)
Subject: Re: DZ's in Northcentral Massachusettes?
Reply-To: koning@koning.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Co., distributed systems architecture
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 15:11:10 GMT


In article <4190003@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, boucher@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Richard A Boucher Jr) writes:
|> Can anybody give me some info on any DZ's in Northcentral Massachusettes?
|>I'll be there from 4/19 thru 4/23 and would like to check one out...
|>
|>Thanks.     
|>:c
|>   
|>k

There are several; the one I know is Pepperell: 508-433-9222.

	paul, A-13683

Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: tjreynol@zephyr.cair.du.edu (The Jumpin Dude)
Subject: altimeters
Organization: University of Denver
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 17:19:27 GMT

i'm looking for general opinions of different altimeters

anything you'd like to add is cool to me;

a specific question: how do the Barigo and French units compare to the 
Altimasters?

anyone know the warranties on different units?

thanks
tim
tjreynol@du.edu
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: esj@viper.eng.ufl.edu (Eric S. Johnson)
Subject: Re: Opinions on a Glide Path Nova (**LONG**)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 18:11:54 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.011029.964@daffy.cs.wisc.edu>, sparkie@spock.cs.wisc.edu (Mark Horn) writes:
|> Hi Y'all,
|> 
|> Well, I just got back from Tennessee and I can't stop talking like a south'ner.   
|> Anyway, while I was down there, I got to jump a Nova 110 for three jumps.  Nova  
|> is a new line of zero porosity canopies manufactured by Glide Path  
|> International.  The smallest of which is a 99 sq. ft. canopy!
|> 

I put 5 jumps on a demo Nova 170 a few weeks ago. I weigh 185, and my 
regular RW canopy is a Ariel 150. I want to jump a Nova 150, but they
didn't have any, and no proding by Chris Gay would get me to jump a 135. ;-)
(And he was trying... Kept telling me a 135 would be no problem. By the
end of the weekend I almost beleived him. )

I too was quite impressed with the canopy. It has amazing forward speed and 
an excellent glide ratio. They told me that a 150 would have a even 
better glide ratio, and that  I was "not properly loading the 170".
An example of the glide ratio. A bad spot put me about 1/2 mile 
away from the airport at 2500'. At 2000' I was back on the airport. 
I was impressed. 

|> 
|> The risers that this canopy was on didn't have dive loops :-(  So it required  
|> some strong fingers to do a front riser turn.  Nonetheless the front riser  
|> pressure was light.  Front riser turns are a little faster and dive a little  
|> more than a Sabre.  But they aren't as fast and don't dive as much as an Excal.
|> 

A quote from a GP employee: If you have to dive it to get a good swoop, something
is wrong with the canopy. Front riser dives seemed tamer then my ariel's, but
my demo didn't have dive loops either, so maybe I wasn't cranking it as well.
Stall spins and stalls were just as fun on a nova as on a ariel. The swoop was
impressive, and flare range seemed quite forgiving, though this may have 
been because I was on a "oversized" demo. The canopy seemed a bit more stable in
tubulence then a ariel or a sabre. 

|> 
|> The first jump I made on the canopy, the Glide Path Rep packed the parachute  
|> for me.  And it opened in what I would describe as a snivel.  The Rep rolled  
|> the four end cells on each side and stuffed them into the center cell, then  
|> rolled the tail up over that.  He spent quite a bit of time rolling stuff.  He  
|> said that if I didn't do it right, I could get a pretty strong opening shock.   
|> He was right.  When I packed the canopy I tried rolling things the way that he  
|> did, but apparently was unsuccessful.  I got some pretty severe opening shocks.   
|> MUCH harder than a Sabre 135 and a bit harder than an Excal 135. 

I propacked it and rolled the whole nose a few times. Had smooth openings. About
on par with my ariel.

|> I also  
|> noticed, however that packing the canopy was easier than packing other zero-P  
|> canopies. 

The Nova has F111 ribs in the cells. This helps make it easier to pack also.

I am looking forward to jumping a 150. 

Ej