From: bill@kepler.ucsd.edu (Bill Reynolds)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Summary: Tracker/Sidekick or Samurai
Date: 8 Jan 93 11:10:22
Organization: Institute for Nonlinear Science, UCSD
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.ucsd.edu

Thank you all for the responses we got. We finally decided to bail on
the 4x4 and get a Subaru Loyale wagon - there were just to many
uncertainties about the Suzuki's; moreover the Subaru winds up being
about as cheap as the Suzuki, but includes AC, AM/FM and all that
stuff standard.  Anyways, thanks for all the help. What follows is my
original post and all the responses I've received.

My Original Post
================
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Tracker/Sidekick or Samurai: Cheap, Reliable and Safe 4x4's?
Date: 6 Jan 93 01:41:50
Organization: Institute for Nonlinear Science, UCSD
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.ucsd.edu

We're moving to the mountains, and we need a vehicle for the snow -
most people there (N. New Mexico) say a 4x4 is a necessity.  We'd like
to get a new vehicle, but don't have a lot to spend. After perusing
Consumer Reports, Money Magazine and the Car Book, we've come up with
the following.

Sidekick/Tracker:
  Pros: Cheap, Good mileage, Reliable, Low Complaint index, Tolerable
ride (in test drive). We've gotten a good quote on a new 92 Sidekick:
$9995.
  Cons: Poor Safety record (only have the 91 data, anybody got
anything for the 92's?), Samurai Cheaper.

Samurai:
  Pros: Cheaper Still. Better crash performance (again, 91 data).
  Cons: Consumer Reports says they tip easily - is this true? Bad
reputation, High complaint index.

Any comments and/or suggestions? I think the price we've got on the
Sidekick is pretty good, I'm tempted to jump at it. Is this the best
way to go if we're interested in economy - or would we be better off
getting a used 4WD truck, which is bigger and safer?

How serious are the safety issues - are these things deathtraps? It's
scary to think we might be putting our lives on the line to save a few
measly bucks. 

Much thanks in advance.

==================

From jmh@Turing.ORG  Wed Jan  6 05:27:48 1993
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Organization: The Turing Project, Public Access Internet Host
From: jmh@Turing.ORG
To: bill
Subject: Re: Tracker/Sidekick or Samurai: Cheap, Reliable and Safe 4x4's?
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 08:26 EST

In article <BILL.93Jan6014150@kepler.ucsd.edu> you write:
>We're moving to the mountains, and we need a vehicle for the snow -
>most people there (N. New Mexico) say a 4x4 is a necessity.  We'd like
>to get a new vehicle, but don't have a lot to spend. After perusing
>Consumer Reports, Money Magazine and the Car Book, we've come up with
>the following.
>
>Sidekick/Tracker:
>  Pros: Cheap, Good mileage, Reliable, Low Complaint index, Tolerable
>ride (in test drive). We've gotten a good quote on a new 92 Sidekick:
>$9995.
>  Cons: Poor Safety record (only have the 91 data, anybody got
>anything for the 92's?), Samurai Cheaper.
>
>Samurai:
>  Pros: Cheaper Still. Better crash performance (again, 91 data).
>  Cons: Consumer Reports says they tip easily - is this true? Bad
>reputation, High complaint index.
>
>Any comments and/or suggestions? I think the price we've got on the
>Sidekick is pretty good, I'm tempted to jump at it. Is this the best
>way to go if we're interested in economy - or would we be better off
>getting a used 4WD truck, which is bigger and safer?
>

ALL the vehicles you mentioned have very SHORT wheel bases, my general 
experience is that a short wheelbase vehicle in the snow is generally
useless (I've never had a 4X4 so I really don't know much difference
the 4 wheel drive will help).  I'd suggest talking to the new neighbors
in the mountains and see if they have any opinions about any of the
vehicles you mentioned.

>How serious are the safety issues - are these things deathtraps? It's
>scary to think we might be putting our lives on the line to save a few
>measly bucks. 
>
The safety issue can be a major one, insurance companies tend to have
high premiums on vehicles deemed "less safe".

>Much thanks in advance.
>--
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Bill Reynolds        | Hey Rocky! Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!
>bill@kepler.ucsd.edu |                                  -Bullwinkle


Good Luck

Jeff

jmh@turing.ORG

From tvervaek@cs.itc.hp.com  Wed Jan  6 07:33:36 1993
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: Tom Vervaeke <tvervaek@cs.itc.hp.com>
To: bill (Bill Reynolds)
Subject: Re: Tracker/Sidekick or Samurai: Cheap, Reliable and Safe 4x4's?
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 08:32:42 -0700


I own a Jeep Wrangler and a Jeep Cherokee so I am a little biased
towards them. However, the last time I drove a friend's Samurai it only
had a 1.3 litre 4 cylinder engine. With 2+ adults in the car we had
trouble maintaining speed on any sort of hill. A 1.3 Litre is very
small. Jeeps smallest engine is a 2.5 Litre and almost everyone gets the
4.0L. You must have decent power and 4wd to negotiate any kind of decent
snow. I live just north of Colorado Springs at 8000 ' altitude and we
get around 140 inches of snow per year. Ground clearance is also an
issue for mucho snow.

I've never ridden in a Sidekick, but if I had to purchase a foreign car,
I'd go for that over the Suzuki.  

Also, why not consider a good used 4x4? For the price of what you're
going to spend you could get a decent used Cherokee or something
similar. Perhaps even a 4wd subaru?

Good Luck.


( ___ )------------------------------------------------------------( ___ )
 | / | Tom Vervaeke           Email:tom_vervaeke@hp0800.desk.hp.com | \ |
 | / | Technology Specialist  Snail: 1900 Garden of the Gods Rd.    | \ |
 | / | Hewlett Packard Co.           Colorado Springs, CO 80901     | \ |
 | / | Colorado Springs, CO   Voice    : 719-590-2133               | \ |
 | / | USA                    Fax      : 719-590-2117               | \ |
 | / |--------------------------------------------------------------| \ |
 | / | Quote of the week...                                         | \ |
 |___|           Quote deleted do to lack of creativity !!!         |___|
(_____)------------------------------------------------------------(_____)
   ^                                                                  ^


From finnegan@invader.navo.navy.mil  Wed Jan  6 08:05:53 1993
From: finnegan@invader.navo.navy.mil (Kenneth Finnegan)
To: bill (Bill Reynolds)
Subject: Re: Tracker/Sidekick or Samurai: Cheap, Reliable and Safe 4x4's?
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 09:59:30 CST

In article <BILL.93Jan6014150@kepler.ucsd.edu> you write:
|> We're moving to the mountains, and we need a vehicle for the snow -
|> most people there (N. New Mexico) say a 4x4 is a necessity.  We'd like
|> to get a new vehicle, but don't have a lot to spend. After perusing
|> Consumer Reports, Money Magazine and the Car Book, we've come up with
|> the following.
[.......]
|> How serious are the safety issues - are these things deathtraps? It's
|> scary to think we might be putting our lives on the line to save a few
|> measly bucks.

Bill,

I just bought a 1990 Isuzu Trooper 4WD w/36k miles on it for
$10,500.  I would recommend going with a larger vehicle than
the Samurai/Tracker/Sidekick if you are using the vehicle for
real-life "practical" purposes.  For running down to the beach
on a sunny day, the little ones are great.  But they're not
something you want to have to use every day.

Good luck,

Kenneth
finnegan@navo.navy.mil

From barr@tramp.Colorado.EDU  Wed Jan  6 10:11:11 1993
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
From: BARR DOUG <barr@tramp.Colorado.EDU>
To: bill
Cc: 
Subject: Re: Tracker/Sidekick or Samurai: Cheap, Reliable and Safe 4x4's?
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 11:10:18 -0700

In article <BILL.93Jan6014150@kepler.ucsd.edu> you write:
>We're moving to the mountains, and we need a vehicle for the snow -
>most people there (N. New Mexico) say a 4x4 is a necessity.  We'd like
>to get a new vehicle, but don't have a lot to spend. After perusing
>Consumer Reports, Money Magazine and the Car Book, we've come up with
>the following.
>
>Sidekick/Tracker:
>  Pros: Cheap, Good mileage, Reliable, Low Complaint index, Tolerable
>ride (in test drive). We've gotten a good quote on a new 92 Sidekick:
>$9995.
>  Cons: Poor Safety record (only have the 91 data, anybody got
>anything for the 92's?), Samurai Cheaper.
>
>Samurai:
>  Pros: Cheaper Still. Better crash performance (again, 91 data).
>  Cons: Consumer Reports says they tip easily - is this true? Bad
>reputation, High complaint index.
>
>Any comments and/or suggestions? I think the price we've got on the
>Sidekick is pretty good, I'm tempted to jump at it. Is this the best
>way to go if we're interested in economy - or would we be better off
>getting a used 4WD truck, which is bigger and safer?
>
>How serious are the safety issues - are these things deathtraps? It's
>scary to think we might be putting our lives on the line to save a few
>measly bucks. 
>
>Much thanks in advance.
>--
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Bill Reynolds        | Hey Rocky! Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!
>bill@kepler.ucsd.edu |                                  -Bullwinkle

The safety concerns by Consumers Reports were for the older Samarai's.
The newer ones have been redesigned. The Sidekick is a different design
altogether. I know 2 people who own Suziki's (one Sidekick and on Samarai)
They both like them a lot. The Sidekick I'm refering to is the 4 door.
I am looking at a 4 door Sidekick. You get a lot more for your money.
The only drawback for us is that there is no Suzuki dealer in Boulder.
Happy car hunting!

From bruce@gordian.com  Wed Jan  6 15:37:24 1993
From: bruce@gordian.com (Bruce Hafford)
To: bill (Bill Reynolds)
Subject: Re: Tracker/Sidekick or Samurai: Cheap, Reliable and Safe 4x4's?
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 15:36:20 -0800


My SO has a Tracker (2wd) and it's been great. $10k for
a 4x4 sounds pretty damn good.  I also like the insides a lot
better than the Sam - the Sam seems like a hack, and the
SK is a bit more refined.

As far as tipping, the Sam isn't the only unstable vehicle.  But
I would assume that Suz learned their lesson real well and made
the SK a lot better in this respect.  It certainly looks wider than the
Sam....


From heimlich@watson.ibm.com  Wed Jan  6 20:53:10 1993
Message-Id: <9301070452.AA27184@kingbee.watson.ibm.com>
From: heimlich@watson.ibm.com (Steve Heimlich)
To: bill
Subject: Re: Tracker/Sidekick or Samurai: Cheap, Reliable and Safe 4x4's?
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 23:52:05 -0500

In article <BILL.93Jan6014150@kepler.ucsd.edu> you write:
>We're moving to the mountains, and we need a vehicle for the snow -
>most people there (N. New Mexico) say a 4x4 is a necessity.  We'd like
>to get a new vehicle, but don't have a lot to spend. After perusing
>Consumer Reports, Money Magazine and the Car Book, we've come up with
>the following.
>
>Sidekick/Tracker:
>  Pros: Cheap, Good mileage, Reliable, Low Complaint index, Tolerable
>ride (in test drive). We've gotten a good quote on a new 92 Sidekick:
>$9995.
>  Cons: Poor Safety record (only have the 91 data, anybody got
>anything for the 92's?), Samurai Cheaper.
>
>Samurai:
>  Pros: Cheaper Still. Better crash performance (again, 91 data).
>  Cons: Consumer Reports says they tip easily - is this true? Bad
>reputation, High complaint index.
>
>Any comments and/or suggestions? I think the price we've got on the
>Sidekick is pretty good, I'm tempted to jump at it. Is this the best
>way to go if we're interested in economy - or would we be better off
>getting a used 4WD truck, which is bigger and safer?
>
>How serious are the safety issues - are these things deathtraps? It's
>scary to think we might be putting our lives on the line to save a few
>measly bucks.
>
>Much thanks in advance.
>--
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Bill Reynolds        | Hey Rocky! Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!
>bill@kepler.ucsd.edu |                                  -Bullwinkle

A friend of mine has a Samurai which I've driven.  It's scary.  As for
its 4wd, you have to get out of the car and lock the hubs before you
turn it on, and there are warning stickers which say not to drive in
4wd on hard surfaces.  There is also a sticker which says that the thing
might not handle like an ordinary car, so be careful.

My feeling is that it just feels like its going to tip.  On dry pavement
it's just a cramped, truck-like ride, but sorta fun if you don't mind
a lot of bumps.  On wet or snow it's frightening.  The one I've driven
is a softtop, so it's pretty loud and the wind catches it really well.

My front wheel drive corolla is much better in dry, wet, snow, ride, etc.
I haven't driven your other choices.

Steve

From andrew@frip.wv.tek.com  Thu Jan  7 12:49:25 1993
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Reply-To: andrew@frip.wv.tek.com
Fcc: compostbox
Organization: Tektronix Color Printers, Wilsonville, Oregon
From: andrew@frip.wv.tek.com (Andrew Klossner)
To: bill
Subject: Re: Tracker/Sidekick or Samurai: Cheap, Reliable and Safe 4x4's?
Date: Thu,  7 Jan 93 12:33:18 PST

	"We're moving to the mountains, and we need a vehicle for the
	snow - most people there (N. New Mexico) say a 4x4 is a
	necessity."

Los Alamos, maybe?  Ask those folks what they think of tiny 4x4s like
the Samurai.  I wouldn't drive one on a bet.  Get a 4WD Subaru, the
standard cheap vehicle of the Rocky Mountains.

  -=- Andrew Klossner  (andrew@frip.wv.tek.com)
                       (uunet!tektronix!frip.WV.TEK!andrew)

From wfp@Turing.ORG  Thu Jan  7 13:11:05 1993
From: Bill Pemberton <wfp@Turing.ORG>
Subject: Re: Tracker/Sidekick or Samurai: Cheap, Reliable and Safe 4x4's?
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:09:56 -0500 (EST)

To: bill@kepler.ucsd.edu
Subject: Re: Tracker/Sidekick or Samurai: Cheap, Reliable and Safe 4x4's?
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Organization: The Turing Project, Public Access Internet Host
Cc: 
Bcc: 

I've got an 89 Sidekick and the only complaint that I have is that it is
hard to find parts for it.

$10,000 sounds mightly inexpensive.  That is the same price I paid for mine
almost 3 years ago.  Also, make sure it is 4WD, there are 2WD models of the
Sidekick.

If the choice is Sidekick vs. Tracker, go with the Sidekick.  They are not 
identical on the inside, the Sidekick has a much nicer interior.

As for safety data, the '91 info will be as good as any other.  The truck
has not been redesigned since it first came out.  I can't imagine the
Sidekick being any less safe then the Samurai!  Obviously, with a 
canvas top, you aren't very safe in a rollover.  I never wrecked mine, so
I can;t give you much more safety info.

--
Bill

--
______________________________________________________________________________
Bill Reynolds        | Hey Rocky! Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!
bill@kepler.ucsd.edu |                                  -Bullwinkle