HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hdavies@rx.xerox.com (Hugh J.E. Davies)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:35:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: spectrum.1993Jan26.143539.6556
Reply-To: hdavies@rx.xerox.com
Organization: Rank Xerox Ltd.

In article 81825@hydra.gatech.EDU, gt5311b@prism.gatech.EDU (BHATTACHARYA,ABHIJIT) writes:
>In article <C1F01w.HG4@newcastle.ac.uk> Adrian.Waterworth@newcastle.ac.uk (Adrian Waterworth) writes:
>
>[stuff deleted]
>

[more stuff deleted]


> none of us can speak English properly.  It has gotten markedly better

Point proven, I think.

---


Regards,

Hugh.
------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't speak for Xerox. | It's no use being clever - we are all
Rank Xerox Centre, UK.   | clever here; just try to be kind - a
Huge.wgc1@rx.xerox.com   | little kind. (F.J. Foakes Jackson)
From: kim_sh@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Sung Hyun Kim)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re:Inflation
Date: 22 Jan 1993 15:53:43 -0500
Organization: Homewood Academic Computing, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu

In article <1993Jan21.211300.8065@athena.mit.edu> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>i really don't understand what you are trying to say here.
>inflation simply means an increase in prices. if the price of hammers
>in terms of bananas increases, then there is "price inflation"
>of hammers in terms of bananas. but that would only happen due to
>market effects. and when the number of bananas needed to buy a hammer
>increased, people would start making more hammers and growing fewer
>bananas. eventually an equilibrium, or at least a stable cycle
>would be reached. you wouldn't see the inflation continue endlessly.

Wait,wait..  You are obviously thinking in terms of MICROeconomics. I had
a hard time in swallowing those concepts of "aggregate demand","price level"
things since it didn't seem right when you think in terms of micro.

But anyway, inflation means increases in overall prices, not just one price
in terms of others..whatever "the overall prices" means, you have to figure
out that..but I am pretty sure that it doesn't what you are thinking.





-- 
 Sung Hyun Kim    kim_sh@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu : Economics, Johns Hopkins U.
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
From: deyoung@acs.harding.edu (Joel M. DeYoung)
Date: 24 Jan 93 15:10:05 -0600
Reply-To: deyoung@acs.harding.edu
 <1993Jan23.000840.20867@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> <C1BpGz.L20@news.iastate.edu>,<2423@blue.cis.pitt.edu>
Organization: Harding University

In article <2423@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, wbdst+@pitt.edu (William B Dwinnell) writes:
>
>How large is Canada's population, when compared to that of the
>United States?

Canada has approximately 25 000 000 people, whereas the US has somewhere
between 250 000 000 and 300 000 000 - a ratio of about 1 Canadian for
every 10 Americans.

Joel
=======================================================================
 ||  Joel M. DeYoung       With much wisdom comes much sorrow;      ||
 ||  Harding University      The more knowledge, the more grief.    ||
 ||  deyoung@harding.edu                             - The teacher  ||
=======================================================================
Xref: sparky sci.econ:9903 soc.culture.usa:10203 soc.culture.japan:14403 soc.culture.british:19536 soc.culture.canada:10477
From: sballant@iastate.edu (Susan Ballantine)
Newsgroups: sci.econ,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:49:55 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA

In article <1993Jan26.172037.2804@adobe.com> cjackson@adobe.com (Curtis Jackson) writes:
>In article <1993Jan26.120132.21873@cas.org> jac54@cas.org () writes:
>}	Going back to food, the U.S. offers some of the worst sausage
>}	it has ever been my dubious privilege to taste.  Oscar Meyer
>}	would cause riots in the streets in Poland, never mind Germany.
>
>Ah, but that is our *chief* advantage, you see. The unwashed masses
>may eat Oscar Meyer sausages, drink Budweiser beer, and eat Velveeta
>brand processed American cheese-like (not!) food-style product, but
>I don't. And why not? BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE TO, here in the SF bay
>area.
>
>What America lacks in the large commercial advertised arena it more
>than makes up for in small local businesses, many of them run by
>Nth-generation immigrants, where N is a small number. So I get my
>sausages at one of several local German delis, I get my beer from
>local microbreweries, and I get my cheese from local organic dairies.
>I also get my Thai food at restaurants run by Thai immigrants, my
>Vietnamese food at Vietnamese-run restaurants, and my Japanese cooking
>ingredients at a large local Japanese-run grocery.
>
>I have these wonderful nearly-infinite choices of locally-produced
>good quality foods, yet I still have the advantage of the electronics
>and clothing and myriad other consumer goods mass-produced in this
>country. So the American advantage is that the things we lack on a
>national scale can usually be made here by small businesses run by
>people who know how to do them right, whereas the things that Europe
>lacks would require huge capital investment and large factories.
>
>And, yes, Iowa is horrible, but America is so huge and diverse (despite
>the raging on-slaught of generic television and fast food franchises)
>that one can choose to live in some place almost, but not quite,
>completely unlike Iowa, yet remain in the same country.
>-- 
>Curtis Jackson			'91 Black Lab/Blue Heeler "Studley Doright"
>cjackson@mv.us.adobe.com	'92 Collie/Golden "George"
>DoD #721	KotB		'91 Hawk GT	'81 Maxim 650
>"I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead." -- J. Buffett
At risk of being flamed off the net by all these midewest-haters, I'd like
to firmly assert that Iowa is really not too bad.
sue b.
iowa state u.
Newsgroups: sci.econ
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: Inflation
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 15:18:18 GMT

In article <1jpmsnINN1sa@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> kim_sh@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Sung Hyun Kim) writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.211300.8065@athena.mit.edu> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>>i really don't understand what you are trying to say here.
>>inflation simply means an increase in prices. if the price of hammers
>>in terms of bananas increases, then there is "price inflation"
>>of hammers in terms of bananas. but that would only happen due to
>>market effects. and when the number of bananas needed to buy a hammer
>>increased, people would start making more hammers and growing fewer
>>bananas. eventually an equilibrium, or at least a stable cycle
>>would be reached. you wouldn't see the inflation continue endlessly.
>
>Wait,wait..  You are obviously thinking in terms of MICROeconomics. I had
>a hard time in swallowing those concepts of "aggregate demand","price level"
>things since it didn't seem right when you think in terms of micro.
>
>But anyway, inflation means increases in overall prices, not just one price
>in terms of others..whatever "the overall prices" means, you have to figure
>out that..but I am pretty sure that it doesn't what you are thinking.

well, the original poster was claiming that inflation did not require
money. i was simply trying to say that it did, because the kind of
"inflation" you get in a barter system would not be the same, they would
just be price fluctuations due to demand and supply. the confusion is
in trying to apply the word "inflation" to a system without currency.

--
charles
Newsgroups: sci.econ
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:17:04 GMT

In article <4044@wyse.wyse.com> jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497) writes:
>
>In any Silicon VAlley company, you will find a typical department has
>people from all over the world. MAny people speak more than one language, and
>often the second language is an Asian rather than a European language. The most
>common second language of course is Spanish, and almost everyone knows a few
>words.
>
>I would be very surprised if the US does not in fact have the highest immigrant
>population of any developed nation.
>

Canada has at least twice per capita the immigration rate of the United
States...   

Gerald
From: wbdst+@pitt.edu (William B Dwinnell)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: Inflation
Date: 21 Jan 93 13:19:23 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


Yes, some inflation is natural, and some is caused my economic policies
of the government. But why do you limit your explanation of inflation
to the eexxx effects of money, and supply and demand?  The reason for 
inflation happens before we even get to the market: the seller has 
forsaken some amount of value of the item in question, by waiting-
that is, by sliding through time. When the xxxx they finally get to
the market, supply and demand schedules have already moved, and the
seller has lost.  In truth, inflation of prices could occur in an economy
of hammers and banaanaxxxx bannanas. Remember supply and demand only
reflect underlying economic conditions, and the reason for inflation
is one of those conditions, not part of S/D.
Newsgroups: sci.econ,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
From: bigger@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Marcel Bigger)
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Followup-To: sci.econ
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 01:43:29 GMT


The US is No. 1!

Rather, for me Switzerland is.

Cheers
Marcel W. Bigger
From: tucker@shiva.edsg.hac.com (George Tucker)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: Inflation
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:39:54 GMT
Reply-To: tucker@shiva.UUCP (George Tucker)
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA

In article <1993Jan24.163821.3459@athena.mit.edu> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>In article <1993Jan23.183507.28658@csi.uottawa.ca> cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan23.170436.10269@athena.mit.edu> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>>>interest is simply rent for the use of a dollar. if that dollar
>>>will be worth 4 cents less a year from now, then i will include that
>>>amount in the rent i charge. you'll have to explain how it works the
>>>other way around. i don't see it.
>>
>>Supposing the basic interest rate is 4%, and there is no other source
>>of inflation, then it would be rather difficult to have an inflation
>>rate of below 4%, expressed as follows:
>>
>>Holding money costs 4%, and this will encourage the inflation rate to
>>grow toward 4%.
>>
>>The presence of interest WILL result in some inflation.
>
>second, history shows that inflation and interest rates *do* usually
>maintain a gap. your claim that inflation below interest rates
>would be hard to happen is not empirically indicated.

As a bunch of experts have already said, inflation is caused only by
a change in the supply/demand balance for the commodity called money.

Suppose we have a closed system where the inflation rate is zero and
the there is one interest rate of 10%.  In order for you to borrow
money you must expect better than a 10% return.  So you try to set
prices high enough to get it.  If the same product was cheaper
before at a lower interest rate, you are attempting to create
inflation.

But I have money making 10% above inflation.  I like that, and I 
don't need your product right now.  I want to retire rich.  You can't
sell your product.  You go bankrupt.  The economy sinks into 
Depression.  Interest rates go to zero and we have deflation.
I make a huge profit on my bonds, retire, and hire you
occasionally for odd jobs.

Then, of course, the government may stimulate the economy and 
create 10% inflation.  But it could be 5% or 20% also.  There is
no necessary relation between the old interest rate and the new
inflation rate.

In real life those non-scientific economists attempt to manage
the money supply so the cycle is not so extreme.  In real life
you can't raise your prices just because you borrowed expensive
money because someone else with cheaper money will undercut you.
In real life you will simply wait for cheaper money unless you have
a product that would not otherwise exist.  Or you will lose your
investment.
 
	 George Tucker        tucker@shiva.hac.com
	Signature line awaiting FDA approval.

Newsgroups: sci.econ,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:08:40 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.220321.8579@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (james.w.lacey) writes:
>
>One reason, IMHO, why Americans have the "USA #1" attitude is
>the relative amount of immigration to American vs. other
>countries.  Most Americans are decendents of people who came
>here in the last 100 or 150 years.  Most Americans know,
>work with, and have friends that were born in other countries
>and immigrated to America.   
>
>The logic is thus, "since hundreds of thousands of people
>immigrate to America every year, and millions have immigrated
>here over the past century, this must be the best country
>in the world."
>

Canada has twice the immigration rate per capita than the United
States has.

Gerald
Newsgroups: sci.econ
From: radford@cs.toronto.edu (Radford Neal)
Subject: Re: Surviving Hyper-Inflation
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Distribution: usa
Date: 22 Jan 93 17:16:07 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.061857.22935@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

>>>Are you including the $160 billion or so of debt that was monetized
>>>away due to inflation?  If not, you're double-counting.
>>
>>please explain what you mean by this.

>Say that there's a $1 trillion debt, $100 billion deficit, and 5% inflation...

>The "deficit" figure will include the interest for this inflation, but
>it's not a real expense.  Hence, deficit figures will always look larger
>than they really are.


This is certainly true, but it is not what is meant by "monetized" debt.

Monetized debt is debt that is held by the country's central bank.
Money borrowed by the goverment from the central bank is simply
created out of thin air.  Other things being equal, this will cause
inflation, with the effect that the goverment expenditures financed 
in this fashion are implicitly paid for by whoever was holding cash
when the currency was devalued by this money creation.  Since these
people cannot be identified, paying them back is impossible, as well
as not being legally required.  Paying back this debt to the central
bank would, indeed, result in the collapse of the financial system.

Accordingly, this debt cannot be regarded as real, and should not be
included in the figures on the cumulative debt (though it commonly is).
I believe, however, that the interest on this non-existent debt does
not distort the deficit figures, since it is cancelled out by the
central bank's profit on these loans, which gets credited as goverment
revenue. It does, however, distort the figures one sees on the percentage
of goverment revenue that goes to service the debt.

If I recall correctly, about 10% of goverment debt in countries such
as Canada and the US is owed to their central banks. I suspect that
in countries like Brazil the percentage is far higher (at least the
percentage of the debt in their own currency - Brazil's central bank
isn't allowed to create US dollars).

    Radford Neal
Newsgroups: sci.econ,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
From: jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (james.w.lacey)
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 22:03:21 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.151010.17928@acuson.com> miklg@acuson.com (Michael Goldman ) writes:
>
>	A lot of discussion on the net is of the nature of which
>	country is better or worse in some regard.  These discussions
>	usually suffer from lack of data comparing different
>	countries.  (Eg., the US murder rate is high, but how is it
>	compared to other countries?)  I would like to mention three
>	recent books that compare the US and many other countries in
>	such things as infant mortality, murder rates, rate of growth
>	of exports, etc.
>...

One reason, IMHO, why Americans have the "USA #1" attitude is
the relative amount of immigration to American vs. other
countries.  Most Americans are decendents of people who came
here in the last 100 or 150 years.  Most Americans know,
work with, and have friends that were born in other countries
and immigrated to America.   

The logic is thus, "since hundreds of thousands of people
immigrate to America every year, and millions have immigrated
here over the past century, this must be the best country
in the world."


-- 
     Jim Lacey  --  my own opinions    
     email:  att!cbnewsl!jlacey  or  jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com
     D'ou venons-nous? Que sommes-nous? Ou allons-nous?
Newsgroups: sci.econ
From: radford@cs.toronto.edu (Radford Neal)
Subject: Re: Inflation
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:48:08 GMT

In article <2455@blue.cis.pitt.edu> wbdst+@pitt.edu (William B Dwinnell) writes:

>...let's say that we live in an economy where there is a bank
>which is willing to pay 5% interest on money deposited. If anyone at
>all deposits money in that bank, his nominal wealth will increase by
>5% in in one year, right?  Let's say someone else does not. The depositor
>now has 5% more nominal wealth to play with than the non-depositor,
>and is thus more able to compete in the market than he was before, whereas
>the non-depositor hasn't changed, in terms of nominal wealth. The
>demand curve will shift, moving the quilibrium point, dragging prices
>up with it. This is what I "know".  Where have I strayed?

You forgot that the bank loans out the money that people deposit. 
Somebody borrowed the money at, say, 6% interest, and now has less
nominal wealth before. The depositor has 5% more nominal wealth, and
the bank's owners and employees pick up the 1% difference. It's 
quite possible that it all works out to the same number of dollars
as before, with no money having been created.

It's also possible that money WAS created - the operation of the banking 
system is indeed one of the ways this is done in the present economic
system. If money was created, it will likely cause inflation, other
things being equal. This is NOT an inevitable consequence of the existence
of interest, however.

    Radford Neal
From: pcollac@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Paul Collacchi)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: Inflation
Date: 26 Jan 93 00:48:29 GMT
Reply-To: pcollac@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Paul Collacchi)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Pyramid Technologies, Mt. View, California.

In article <1993Jan25.161854.16450@Princeton.EDU>, nfs@volkl (Norbert
Schlenker) writes:
|> In article <2455@blue.cis.pitt.edu> wbdst+@pitt.edu (William B
Dwinnell) writes:
|> >
|> >Okay, Norbert, let's say that we live in an economy where there is a bank
|> >which is willing to pay 5% interest on money deposited. If anyone at
|> >all deposits money in that bank, his nominal wealth will increase by
|> >5% iunxx in one year, right?  Let's say someone else does not. The
depositor
|> >now has 5% more nominal wealth to play with than the non-depositor,
|> >and is thus more able to compete in the market than he was before, whreas
|> >the non-edpositor hasn't changed, in terms of nominal wealth. The
|> >demand curve will shift, moving the quilibrium point, dragging prices
|> >up with it. Thsixxx This is what I "know".  Where have I strayed?
|> 
|> If the bank pays a person 5% interest, it's because the bank is able to
|> lend the money for at least 5% itself.  If it lends that money for a
|> productive purpose, the supply curve shifts too.  The bank depositor bids
|> for more; the producer supplies more.  There is no a priori reason to
|> believe that inflation will result from the shifting of both curves.
|> 
|>

Or, rather than increasing supply, the bank loan may go toward increased
productvity -- the same supply costs less to produce.  The producer may 
end up with increased profit, but maybe his competitor makes him
reduce his prices.  In that case there is price "deflation" since prices
are going down.

Paul Collacchi
Newsgroups: sci.econ,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
From: mjkugel@iastate.edu (Michael J Kugel)
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 20:12:35 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.000840.20867@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>In article <1993Jan22.220321.8579@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (james.w.lacey) writes:
>>
>>One reason, IMHO, why Americans have the "USA #1" attitude is
>>the relative amount of immigration to American vs. other
>>countries.  Most Americans are decendents of people who came
>>here in the last 100 or 150 years.  Most Americans know,
>>work with, and have friends that were born in other countries
>>and immigrated to America.   
>>
>>The logic is thus, "since hundreds of thousands of people
>>immigrate to America every year, and millions have immigrated
>>here over the past century, this must be the best country
>>in the world."
>>
>
>Canada has twice the immigration rate per capita than the United
>States has.
>
>Gerald

Does this include illegal immigration?


Mike
Newsgroups: sci.econ,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
From: cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Ottawa
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 05:40:09 GMT

In article <2423@blue.cis.pitt.edu> wbdst+@pitt.edu (William B Dwinnell) writes:
>
>How large is Canada's population, when compared to that of the
>United States?

Roughly 10% ,give or take a little.  The population of Canada is
approximately 26.5 million people (plus or minus 0.5 million - It's
been a few months since I last saw a figure, and it might have been
26.9M).  The US has something on the order of 250-300 million, I
believe?

-- 
Christopher Browne                |     PGP 2.0 key available
cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca           |======================================
University of Ottawa              | Genius may have its limitations, but
Master of System Science Program  | stupidity is not thus handicapped.
Xref: sparky sci.econ:9874 soc.culture.usa:10128 soc.culture.japan:14325 soc.culture.british:19444 soc.culture.canada:10408