HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wmorgan@stsci.edu (Windsor A. Morgan)
Subject: Re: Popularity in Comics (was Liefield Throws Tantrum)
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 18:58:54 GMT

In article <-y#nc5_@lynx.unm.edu> lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
>wmorgan@stsci.edu (Windsor A. Morgan) writes:

>> The company has been around for less than a year, and has only produced
>> about five or six comics (I'm not sure).  That is no reason to be scared
>> or frightened of a comic company. 

>There are plenty of reasons to be bothered by Image's success.  In case
>you missed it, Image has pushed Malibu -- a thoroughly undistinguished
>publisher no matter how you measure it -- up to the #2 slot in the comics
>industry for this month.  For the first time in just about forever, DC is
>number *three*.  All this on the basis of a handful of Image titles, most
>of which are complete unadulterated tripe.  Do you think that this in any
>way helps comics as a medium?  Do you think that this is something to
>embrace, to celebrate? 

First, I don't think Malibu/Image's position will last.  Second, I
think that once these adolescent fanboy/speculators get a bit older,
they will realize that those comics are crap and turn to other, better
comics (unless, of course, the Image creators learn how to write and
draw better).  Third, I think anything which brings people into comics
shops or lets them know that comics are still being made is good.
Once they are in the comics shops, a dealer can steer a novice to
something she thinks he'll like, like a Watchmen or a Sandman.

>Of course people are frustrated when fools and no-talents like McFarlane
>and Liefeld rake in more money for a single issue of a comic than most
>people in the industry will see over the course of an entire career.  It
>confirms what many of us have always known or at least suspected -- that
>talent and hard work don't mean a damned thing in this business; that all
>that counts is how good you are at pandering to 12-year-old speculators
>and fanboys, most of whom don't even read the damned books after they
>take them home.  Of course that pisses people off.  Should it *not*? 

Again, I don't think it will last long.  Of course the scenario you
describe pisses people off.  *I* would be pissed off.  I still think
there is a market out there for what we would call "good writing" and
"good art", and in the end, we know that the stereotypical material
published by Image will not prevail.

In the early 1960s, Marvel pandered to adolescent comics readers, and
it paid off.  Those of you who grew up with Marvel's books left to go
to other comics companies when they realized that Marvel wasn't
offering what you needed/wanted.  Marvel's existence revitalized an
industry (even more so than did DC's new Silver Age characters).  The
same thing will happen here.



-- 
'Verily, there be no leader as wise as the Vision!'
                         Windsor Morgan (wmorgan@stsci.edu OR NHT@PSUVM.BITNET)
                         Space Telescope Science Institute
                         Baltimore, MD   21218
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver)
Subject: Re: DC's plans
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 16:08:55 GMT

 morrow@fnalo.fnal.gov (Dan Elmoe) writes:
 
>	Funny you should mention this; I ordered a second-printing black SS tee
>specifically to give to Neil Gaiman when I finally meet him.  Black is, of
>course, the only color he wears.

Black is not a colour. & colours are allowed *on* the black. Hmm. The guy
who prompted you to the above statement mentioned Squiddy playing with Death's
goldfish... I know what their names are. Ner ner |-)

>	Tanaqui, has he moved to Minnesota yet?

Dunno what he's doing. He went off on this signing tour thingy to the States.
I haven't had the little "I'm back" email yet.

Tanaqui

I don't get mad, I get odd
From: lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Popularity in Comics (was Liefield Throws Tantrum)
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:40:45 GMT
Organization: Sporadic and incomplete

wmorgan@stsci.edu (Windsor A. Morgan) writes:

> The company has been around for less than a year, and has only produced
> about five or six comics (I'm not sure).  That is no reason to be scred
> or frightened of a comic company. 

There are plenty of reasons to be bothered by Image's success.  In case
you missed it, Image has pushed Malibu -- a thoroughly undistinguished
publisher no matter how you measure it -- up to the #2 slot in the comics
industry for this month.  For the first time in just about forever, DC is
number *three*.  All this on the basis of a handful of Image titles, most
of which are complete unadulterated tripe.  Do you think that this in any
way helps comics as a medium?  Do you think that this is something to
embrace, to celebrate? 

Of course people are frustrated when fools and no-talents like McFarlane
and Liefeld rake in more money for a single issue of a comic than most
people in the industry will see over the course of an entire career.  It
confirms what many of us have always known or at least suspected -- that
talent and hard work don't mean a damned thing in this business; that all
that counts is how good you are at pandering to 12-year-old speculators
and fanboys, most of whom don't even read the damned books after they
take them home.  Of course that pisses people off.  Should it *not*? 

--
Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)

"It's not the *gun* that kills you . . . it's these LITTLE HARD THINGS!"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: gls@windmill.ATT.COM (the Colonel)
Subject: Re: CEREBUS: chess (spoilers)
Organization: The Eat More Wombat Association
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 16:49:40 GMT

In <BszpqM.4y5@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, ndj20710@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes:
> If you look at the chess board near the end, you can see that Po had indeed
> been setting up a fool's mate. With Cerebus pushing his queen's bishop, it
> would appear that he is going to successfully counter it though. Congratula-
> tions to everyone that guessed right on that.

You're wrong on three counts.

1. Dave and you are both misnaming the bishop; it's King Bishop to Queen's
   Bishop 4.
2. It's a Scholar's Mate, not a Fool's Mate.
3. Aardvarksky is playing right into it:  1. P-K4 P-K4; 2. B-B4 B-B4; 3. Q-R5
   N-QB3 (or 3... P-Q3); 4. QxBP mate.

But then nobody said chess is easy!

-:-
	"The Surgeon General of Australia has determined that
	 canned wombat is every bit as nutritious as fresh."
-- 
Col. G. L. Sicherman
gls@windmill.att.COM
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.animation,rec.arts.tv
From: kathyli@sdcrsi.cray.com (the Rev. Mom)
Subject: [SDCC] Re: BATMAN CARTOON 
Summary: Good stuff!
Organization: CRS San Diego UUCP Gateway
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 08:37:41 GMT


Please note the distribution change, and edit replies accordingly.

The San Diego Comic Con presentation on the animated Batman
series was *very* impressive. I'd definitely recommend getting a
few blank tapes for this sucker.  It *really* has the feel and
look of the old Fleisher Superman, and a real feel for the comic
book history of the character.  Liberties have been taken, but
they're *cool* liberties.

The guys who gave the presentation said that the show is
premiering on Fox, September 5th, a second show will air on the
6th, and from there the show will air Mondays through Fridays
sometime around 4:00 or 5:00 pm.  Not primetime, which seems sort
of a crime, given how good the thing looks.

Robin will appear in about one out of every five episodes (and
it's Dick Grayson, but not in the robin redbreast suit), and near
the end of the season (36 episodes, I think is what they stated)
Barbara Gordon (voiced by Melissa Gilbert Brinkman) will also
appear.  The voices listed were very very impressive, only I
can't remember them off the top of my head, now (except for Adrienne
Barbeau doing Catwoman) and I seem to have lost the tape I made
in lieu of notes, but I'm sure Peter David will fill out the list,
given that he was telling them to me before they were mentioned. :-)

--Kathy Li aka the Rev. Mom
-- 
--------------------|  Always gets a replay/And never tilts at all!
my address bounces. |  That deaf, dumb and blind kid/ Sure plays a mean pinball!
--------------------|             --The Who's TOMMY (LJ Playhouse)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: rutled@bnr.ca (Philip Rutledge)
Subject: Magnus #0 Variants
Reply-To: rutled@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:08:57 GMT


I've seen references to two different  versions of Magnus, Robot Fighter
#0:  The send-in version and the in-store version.

What's the difference?  How do you tell them apart.

I didn't  think  Magnus #0 was  available  for  retail  purchase  in any
stores, I didn't see any up here in my area.

Later,
Phil

--
......................................................................
Philip Rutledge (rutled@bnr.ca)                  Bell-Northern Research
......................................................................
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David VanDomelen)
Subject: Endless Chess Sets
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 20:46:52 GMT

Despair Chess Board: designed so that both kings begin checkmated
Destiny Chess Set: Large leatherbound book included that will tell how every 
game played with this set will end.
Death Chess Set: Lifesize, and you get friends together to play the pieces.  
When a piece is removed, the person dies.
Delirium Chess Set v2: Remember Double Cranko from MASH? Make it 3-D.
Dream Chess Set: no game is ever finished, since both participants fall asleep 
before the thrid move.
     Dave Van Domelen, Desire was well done already and I can't remember the 
7th Endless
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: LSH #34, cont.
Date: 21 Aug 92 23:27:27 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

5. It occurs to me that if McCauley Industries has a previously
unknown way to communicate with Omnicoms, then it probably has
the ability to inconspicuously *tap* people's Omnicoms as well.

6. Universo isn't a very convincing actor, but I suppose that
you don't *have* to be, if you're a super-hypnotist.

7. Is that a piece of Imra's file being erase on page ten?

8. I like the reference to "soulless flesh-eaters".  It's amusing,
though consistent, to think of the Dominators as vegetarians.
(I once asked whether those teeth were for tearing flesh or for
straining liquids, and was told that the latter was more likely.)

9. It's only been about ten issues for Luornu (the one with the
enormous eyes?) since she lost her third body, so no wonder she's
not handling it very well.  We heard some time back that her
cloned body *can* triplicate.  How does this tie in with the implication,
from the annual, that each body has its own personality?  Has she
failed to notice that she has her third personality back, or does
she have two remaining personalities that'll share three bodies, or
is the combined personality typically a *fourth* independent personality?

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   The inability of snakes to count is actually a refusal, on their part,
    to appreciate the Cardinal Number system. -- "Actual Facts"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: tpjg9663@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (The Tomfool)
Subject: Re: Strange Sports( Was Re:JLA/JSA team-up history)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:52:52 GMT

danfrank@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Daniel Frank) writes:

>In article <1992Aug9.131152.1@happy.colorado.edu> mamcconnell@happy.colorado.edu (Mark (MacBear) McConnell) writes:

>>
>>My guess is that it was in one of the Strange Sports Stories, or else in 
>>one of the weird anthologies in the late 70's, (i.e. Super-Team Family,
>>DC Special, DC Super-Stars, etc.)

>Speaking of which, what comic magazine had a story with a baseball
>game between DC heros and villains? I recall it was set-up by some
>villain to prove to his female sidekick that the good-guys don't
>always beat the bad-guys. Uncle Sam was the ump.

I think the SportsMaster and the Huntress set that up.  The pair had
also previously fought Batgirl & Robin, Starman & Black Canary, and
the Justice Society.

I think it was a DC Special, featuring Strange Sports Stories.

Anyone care to test their memory by listing the participants?  To
get things started, I think these characters were present:

Heros:  Black Canary   Kid Flash  Green Arrow  ?Huntress  
Villains:  Felix Faust   Chronos  Sportsmaster

Tom
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: morrow@fnalo.fnal.gov (Dan Elmoe)
Subject: Re: LSH: New version number wanted 
Organization: The Democrats' Best Hope in '96
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 04:41:03 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalo.fnal.gov
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Aug19.064928.14831@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>, arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
> In article <1992Aug18.183218.4705@news.nd.edu> mkelly@happy.helios.nd.edu (michael kelly) writes:
>>	3.21 Lightning Lad retcon (issue 45)
> 
> Um, I don't think this was much of a retcon, at least compared to such things
> as Validus's origin, Laurel Kent/Manhunter, and a host of minor retcons stuck
> through the Levitz era....

	Validus's origin was hardly a retcon, considering that he had never had
an origin prior to v2 ann 3.  And Laurel Kent is tied into the overall Superman
retcon that was forced upon the Legion.
-- 
"Here we find a thriving city:  Brand new buildings, a bustling economy.  A    
scenic thoroughfare winds through this happy municipality.  Here, a farmer     
drives his livestock to market.  Tragically, this serene metropolis lie        
directly beneath THE HOOVER DAM."                                              
--Calvin at play                                                               
  
elmo (morrow@physics.rice.edu,morrow@fnal.fnal.gov)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.animation,rec.arts.tv
From: arielle@taronga.com (Stephanie da Silva)
Subject: Re: [SDCC] Re: BATMAN CARTOON
Organization: Taronga Park BBS
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 06:46:42 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.175431.3995@midway.uchicago.edu>, ttak@ellis.uchicago.edu (toki  takeuchi) writes:
> This sounds interesting.  Is Batman aimed at kids or everyone?"

I haven't gotten up on my "Animations aren't just for children"
soapbox in a while; now's a good a time as any.

Actually, there may be several different audiences for any given
animation.  For example, there's the target audience which is most
often children of certain age groups, like the 5-7 and the 8-12 (the
latter which is the target audience of the new Batman, I believe).

The writers, who are all adults, write for themselves and also for
adults like us who they know are out there watching, something network
executives don't seem to want to admit.

I did see that survey from the Disney comics publication and something
like 3/4s of the surveys sent in were from people 17 and under.  Hm.
The problem with surveys is that they're only a good indication of
who bothered to send in the survey and not who's really out there
reading/watching/whatever.

-- 
Stephanie da Silva                        Taronga Park * Houston, Texas
arielle@taronga.com                           568-0480   568-1032   
  "We are the beaters that scramble your eggmen.  We are..." 
                    "Really dumb." -- The Darkwing Squad and Steelbeak
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: mac7@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael A. Chary)
Subject: Best and Worst Villain Names
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 17:20:38 GMT



What are the best names of villains in comics?
What are the worst?  Five choices of each from MHO.

BEST:  Vandal Savage, I just love this name and the concept.
       Victor von Doom,  I think it's better than Doctor Doom which is
       also okay.
       Two-Face, good name for a guy who used to be a lawyer.
       Lex Luthor, the name just sings menace!
       Pulsar Stargrave, idiosyncratic selection but it's my favorite.

WORST:  Parasite, nice concept for a villain, but the name sounds
        like he's some sort of liver fluke.
        Terra-Man, again I like the concept, but the name does nothing for
        me.
        The Fixer,  sounds like a boxing promoter.
        The Owl, why would anyone, regardless of appearance call himself
        this?
        Satannus, just because.
 ###
-- 
"Ipsa scientia potestas est."
             -Roger Bacon
"The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with
the average voter." -Winston Churchill
From: phaedrus@milton.u.washington.edu (Phaedrus)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: The Care and Feeding of Comics
Date: 13 Aug 92 02:55:48 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <BswHLL.72x@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Matt Hucke) writes:
>In article <1992Aug11.040403.28897@u.washington.edu> phaedrus@milton.u.washington.edu (Phaedrus) writes:
>>   This really has me curious; what exactly is it about comic book protection
>>that makes it such a forbidden topic, even among those who do it?
>Possibly it's because the primary reason for using a bag is to preserve the
>comic's resale value.  Therefore, if you use one, you seem to be  interested
>in money rather than reading.  If you'd rather read it than sell it, a bag 
>just gets in the way. 

     Aha!  I knew there had to be a reason.  Well, this I can clear up. :)  I
most definitely do *not* buy for resale value; I buy almost entirely for
pleasure.  I'm also not satisfied with most of the current comics, so I buy 
lots of back issues.  In order to sustain my habit without breaking the bank, I
buy comics in as low a condition as I can find them, as long as the stories are
still intact.  (While everyone else in line is asking "Do you have this in Near
Mint?", I'm the one asking "Do you have this in Fair?" :) )  Because I buy them
in the lower grades, the poor things tend to go to pieces unless I'm extremely
careful with them.  So when I bag a comic, it's not to preserve any resale
value (which it probably doesn't have much of even now); it's to preserve its
reading value, so that hopefully in a few years I can go back and get the same
enjoyment out of them.
     I should have guessed that this was the reasoning in at least some
people's minds; every time I show up at a comic store with my neat little
computerized list of my collection and my wish list, everyone either thinks I
work there or that I'm the ultimate fanboy.  Then I show them the "Average
Condition," "Average Value" and "Total Estimated Resale Value" columns, and
that cures them of those delusions real quick-like. :)
-- 
Internet: phaedrus@u.washington.edu        (University of Washington, Seattle)
 "If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs,
    consider an exciting career as a guillotine operator!"
From: acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur C. Adams)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: DC's plans
Date: 18 Aug 92 00:09:25 GMT
Organization: The Great Beyond

In article <k79mqr#.dani@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>
>Rumor has it that GL: Mosaic and JSA have already gotten
>the axe.
>

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Jeez, Mosaic is on its fifth issue, and JSA is on its second.

Not giving either of them much of a chance, are they?

Of course, who would have expected them to succeed.

In JSA, the heroes are all nice guys (and gals). No psychopaths, no killers,
just a bunch of people with super-powers that enjoy fighthing the bad
guys. 

Mosaic is a heavy psychological book, dealing with a hero who may
or may not be crazy. Not crazy like the standard blood-lust
character, nor a little bit unbalanced like Batman. No, this
book deals with a man really over the edge. And the world 
is truly different.

Hell, of course they're on a cancellation list. They're too good,
just like Suicide Squad. 
-- 
The world is not analog. The world is digital,
with an incredible number of bits.
Arthur C. Adams (not the comic-book artist)                        <fnord>
E-Mail acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble)
Subject: Re: The Care and Feeding of Comics
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 21:38:18 GMT
Organization: Sporadic and incomplete

faill@gca.com (Peter Faill) writes:

> There seems to be this reoccurring idea that if you like high grade
> books and you spend alot of money on them, your some kind of jerk. 

No . . . if you like high-grade older books and spend a lot of money on
them, you're a *collector*.  If you buy lots of current stuff in the hopes
of making a killing reselling it, *then* you're a jerk.  (You're also a
fool, for reasons which have been explained in detail elsewhere.  But hey,
it's your money.) 

--
Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)
From: jjonsson@alexandria.lib.utah.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Fox's Fall Animation--Batman and X-men
Date: 18 Aug 92 02:29:59 GMT
Organization: Marriott Library, University of Utah

In article <BssGA6.280@news.cso.uiuc.edu> mlj44080@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael Lee Jacobs) writes:

>kay I have now seen the Fox previews for both of these series and I must
>say that the stills I had seen for Batman did not do it justice...
>X-men of course looks stunning but in a different way from Batman's syunning

Saw several episodes of the Batman series at THE CON, and I must say it was 
rather good. It is reminiscent of the Fleischer Superman series in 
animation style but it's a lot smoother. Also, the stories are 
sophisticated, and not exactly kiddie fare. Bob Kane was there and said he 
liked the show, and I must concur, I liked it too, and think it's going to 
appeal to just about all Bat-fans.



Jeff Jonsson
Marriott Library System Support, University of Utah.
==============================================================================
--"It's the sound of the secret--  jjonsson@alexandria.lib.utah.edu
-- machinery at the center of  --  jjonsson@utahlib.bitnet
-- the world." -Cliff Steele   --  "You talkin' to me?"
From: watts@csa3.lbl.gov (PAUL N WATTS)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: What a week!
Date: 15 Aug 92 23:51:58 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Reply-To: watts@csa3.lbl.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   

Amazing.  New Sam & Max, new Milk & Cheese, new Ren & Stimpy.

I feel curiously refreshed.

Paul
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: lf7z@ellis.uchicago.edu (glenn alan carnagey jr)
Subject: Re: DC's plans
Reply-To: lf7z@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 07:03:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.231402.18655@news2.cis.umn.edu> lsmith@mega.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.163038.1993@news.nd.edu> mkelly@happy.helios.nd.edu (michael kelly) writes:
>> lsmith@myria.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith) writes:
>>
>> Maybe a Suicide Squid crossover?
>
>Oh I like this! Squiddy is constantly trying to "get a date."
>
>Death: "For the last time, I'm not taking you until I get a black SS T-shirt!
>        And stop playing with my goldfish!" 

I thought Squiddy won a "Date with Stinky".  Is he already two-timing with 
Death?

Pax ex machina,
Glenn
......................................................................
"Are you really alive in there, or is Thing One a ventriloguist?
 What's this fake body made of?  How often do you clean this water?"
   --- Max, Freelance Police
......................................................................

Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc