Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 08:10:31 CST
From:         "jesse i. carnes" <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      jesse replies on Gospel

Dear all ;

Gordon Zaft made two interesting statements regarding my re-posting of the
article on the Gospel.
In it, he said to the effect that he disagreed that Jesus was passive in
his Resurrection.  Also, he said to the effect that it was fallacious to
believe that Jesus actually EARNED a Righteousness for His people.

OK, I would like to make 2 short replies to Gordon's views.

As to the first point, Gordon sees rather, that Jesus raised himself from the
dead.  Now, I will admit that Jesus, Himself, did RISE ; but that is different
from saying that Jesus raised HIMSELF by His own inertia -- by His own power.
So what is the Scriptural analysis on this?
1 Corintheans reports that not only did Christ RISE from the dead, but that
he was RAISED -- implying an extrinsic source by which he did so.
In specific, Paul states in chapter 15, verse 15 that " ... we have testified
that about God that HE RAISED Christ from the dead ..."
Further, Peter himself, reports in 1 Peter 3:18 that " ... He was put to death
in the body but MADE ALIVE BY THE SPIRIT ..."
Grammatical/historical context of Scripture must have priority over our
presuppositions.

Now as to Gordon's second objection, Hebrews is an excellent source on any
aspect dealing with Christology.
Specifically, I assert that Christ HAD to EARN a Righteousnessfor those for
whom He died.  Why?
Because although we agree that Christ was, is, and ever shall be inherently
Righteous -- in His own right as Diety, that attribute of Divine Righteousness
CANNOT be given to anyone.  It is what theologians call a "non-transferrable"
attribute of God.  God also has attributes that CAN be transferrable, such as
the attribute of THOUGHT.  God is a mind in the purest sense.  We think only
because God made us in His image and a part of that image is being able to
think, muse, ponder, know, etc.

God HAD to deal with the problem of sin, regarding man.  He could not have
merely have just said, "Well, let's let bygones be bygones."
He had to have sin dealt with before He could declare anyone righteous in
His sight.  This brings in the idea that Christ HAD to earn a Righteousness
for His people, rather than just stay in Heaven and dump, as it were, a
Righteousness INTO us.  Again, God will not nor cannot impart to us a
Divine attribute that He alone can possess like Righteousness, with our
SINS still staring Him in the face.  He is merciful, indeed.  His is kind and
gracious, indeed.  But He is HOLY above all and His justice can never be
violated with impunity.

So Christ was necessary to KEEP the Law for our sakes ... obviously not for
His sake, for He is Righteous in His own right.
Nevertheless, Hebrews 5 indicates that "...although He was a son, He LEARNED
obedience from what He suffered and, once mad perfect, he became the SOURCE of
eternal salvation for all who obey Him."
Romans 5:12 and following, say something more to this effect.
In fact, if Christ gave us, lets say, his inherent righteousness, then WHY
did He come to earth and LEARN obedience?
Remembering that He did all for His elect people, He became a MAN forever and
did so that we could have a high priest who understood our sufferings.  Jesus
always KNEW our sufferings were real, but NEVER had any reference point with
which to come from in the area of EXPERIENCE, prior to His Incarnation.
It was a new experience for Diety to SUFFER.

So, all I am saying is that Christ became all that He was and still is for
the reason of obtaining a Righteousness for His elect, through the means of
suffering.  He could not merely call off His justice in light of our sins,
for God is Holy above all things.

So Gordon, any questions?
Agreements?  Disagreements?
My intention was to go through the Word of God in Contextual and Logical
fashion in order to arrive at some correct conclusions.



Jesse Carnes
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