From: mrh@centerline.com (Mike Huben)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.libertarian,alt.amateur-comp,soc.culture.usa,alt.activism
Subject: Re: [misc.activism.progressive] Clinton Office Requests Comments
Date: 7 Jan 1993 15:33:50 GMT
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
Distribution: inet
NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.239.2.36

In article <1993Jan7.144527.29368@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bobd@marune.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan5.151520.20299@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bobd@marune.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula) writes:
>>>In article <1iab94INNsdv@armory.centerline.com> mrh@centerline.com (Mike Huben) writes:
>>>>No, we don't see.  Because we can no more see libertarian governments than
>>>>we can see heaven.  You sound just like a communist promising the withering
>>>>away of the state, or a Christian promising heavenly rule, or a cargo-
>>>>cultist propitiating the great silver birds.
>>>
>>>Or a demopublican promising deficit reductions?
>
>To be more blatantly obvious, my point was that ridiculous claims
>are frequently made by politicians of the two major parties. Deficit
>reduction (while at the same time talking about numerous expensive
>national programs and low/no tax increases) is an *example* of such 
>a claim from the recent election.  Claiming that Libertarians, on average,
>are more ridiculous/gullible than major party members is in itself 
>ridiculous.
>
>My point was that your broadly brushed claim that 
>Libertarians are somehow in Lala land alone, is just plain ridiculous
>in light of the political absurdities perpetrated upon us by the 
>Republocrats (since having the order the other way about
>apparently keyed you off :-) on an almost daily basis.

I partly agree with you.  But let's talk about claims, beliefs and
understanding for a moment.  "Demopublicans" only have (roughly) 200 years
of real world example of functioning government here in the USA with which
to evaluate claims.  Libertarians have science fiction novels and their own
cult literature.

If we were actually to adopt libertarian programs, the change would probably
be at least as wrenching as it has been for East Germany and the former
Soviet Union.  Except they at least knew more or less what they were trying
to transform to, because there are plenty of capitalistic nations that have
travelled in similar directions.  There has never been a minarchist or
anarchist libertaria, and I don't believe anyone knows where the chips will
fall if one is instituted.

>I was attempting to point out that Demopublicans make many pie in the sky
>claims as a matter of course (we are discussing *politics* after all :).

Yup.  And with 200 years of experience to judge them by, we can probably
guess better about those claims than we can about claims made about
non-existent libertarias.

>Many people seem to foster the notion that if we ever elected a few 
>Libertarian members to Congress that the Libertarian ideals would be 
>enacted part an parcel the same day. The reality is that there would 
>be compromise just as there is right now.

We're agreed here.

>Unfortunately, the two party system currently seems to be fostering the idea
>that government *control* is always a good thing....

Unfortunately, libertarians seem to be fostering the idea that government
control is always a BAD thing.  Like the sheep in "Animal Farm", many of them
bleat "Private goooood, government baaaaaad."

Mike Huben

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point
than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.  The happiness
of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality."  George Bernard Shaw
Newsgroups: alt.politics.libertarian,comp.org.eff.talk,soc.culture.usa,alt.activism