HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
Subject: Re: Libertarians & Abortion (was: Please let Marrou debate!)
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:54:19 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

ethridge@bnr.ca (Allen Ethridge) writes:
> jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner) writes:
> >ethridge@bnr.ca (Allen Ethridge) writes:
> >> 
> >> Then why isn't the embryo held responsible for its own 
> >> conception?   After all, neither the woman nor the man forced 
> >> the ovum and sperm  to become a single cell and start growing.
> >
> >c'mon. that's absurd.
>
> If you read all three of my posts you'll know i think it absurd, 
> just as absurd as holding the woman (or the couple - in theory) 
> wholly responsible. The sex act serves several purposes, only one 

someone has to be. and the couple are the only people who can
rightly take that position.

> of which is reproduction. It is absurd, and even silly, to hold 
> human beings completely responsible for the results of drives and 
> desires over which they have little control. It is possible to 

if they have "little control" then they should grow up and get some.

> abstain, but that is not normal, healthy human behavior.

it is if someone is still too immature to take responsibility.

> So even if people attempt to behave responsibly, that's not enough -
> random chance overrides their best efforts and forces this higher 
> responsibility on them.  I take it you also oppose abortion in the 

yup. nobody ever said the world was fair. if you gamble you can't
expect to win all the time.

> case of rape, as the woman could have worn a cast iron chastity 
> belt or allowed herself to die rather than be raped or just not 
> gone for a walk in the park that late at  night.  Your notion of 
> responsibility makes no sense to me, since it seems to be outside 
> of the scope of human control. -- 

straw man. or rape, anyway. rape is not something that happens by 
chance, like pregnancy. there is a definite decision made by the 
rapist. in that case the rapist is the one responsible. if we're 
going to be killing fetuses that had no say in their conception 
because they're "violating the woman's rights" without their consent
then we should be damn well be killing rapists who are responsible 
for putting women in that situation without consent.

jason

--
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`
`,`   "...my fellow neuronaughts were all linked up, plugged in, speed-   `,`
`,`  crazed, and increasing the bandwith of love." - carlsoje@umn.mr.edu  `,`
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,` jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu ,`,`,`
From: fsspr@acad3.alaska.edu (Sean P. Ryan, Hardcore Alaskan)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
Subject: Re: Media coverage for Marrou/Lord (call these #'s!)
Date: 9 Oct 92 15:54:00 GMT
Followup-To: alt.politics.marrou
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Fairbanks, Alaska...no wait, that's not right...
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41.UAC

In article <1992Oct5.171522.8500@u.washington.edu>, sieferme@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Sieferman) writes...
> 
>BTW, the best coverage I've seen so far of the Marrou
>candidacy has been on PBS, the only tv network
>which receives any federal funding (BWAAHAAHAAHAA!).

I detest public broadcasting, so I observe it as little as humanly
possible, but I seem to recall that PBS has also acknowledged the
existence of Bo Gritz, as well.  Though, Gritz has received quite a bit
more national media coverage than Marrou has.  Wonder why that's so?

************************************************************************
Sean Patrick Ryan, Hardcore Alaskan*****Internet: fsspr@acad3.alaska.edu
WWIVnet: 220@9704*CFN: au414*IRC: RadioKAOS, Aoxomoxoa*Ph: (907)488-8365
BITnet: FSSPR@ALASKA****Snail: P.O. Box 83381, Fairbanks, AK  99708-3381
***"I'm gonna Kentucky Fried Chickenize your prostate surgery." - Oswald
Bates, In Living Color***Disclaimer?  BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!***
From: bu008@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brandon D. Ray)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
Subject: St. Louis Demonstration
Date: 12 Oct 1992 06:43:31 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I caught the St. Louis demonstration on CNN Headline News.  Looks
like a good crowd, and it got national coverage...the announcer
even gave a brief but correct of the Libertarian position, and
wonder of wonders pronounced Marrou's name correctly.

Good job.  Here's hoping we do as well at the other sites.
 
And I wish I could have been there!
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou,alt.politics.libertarian
From: backpack@access.digex.com (Stuart Reges)
Subject: Marrou on Larry King Live
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 20:28:48 GMT

Unless something goes awry, Andre should be on Larry King Live on CNN Monday
evening (10/12).  The show runs from 9pm-10pm EST (I think it's also
rebroadcast later in the evening).  Larry usually has 2 guests on for 30
minutes each, athough sometimes he has a single guest.  I'm not sure what the
plans are for Andre.  If the plans change or if I find I'm in error, I'll post
an update as soon as I can.  Our Marrou commercial should also be shown on 3
different days on Larry King next week.

--Stuart


Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou,alt.politics.libertarian
From: mrl28033@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael R Linksvayer)
Subject: new "U." poll (was Re: "U." poll)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 00:29:47 GMT
Keywords: poll, college, students, marrou

U. is taking another call-in poll for president now.
Call them at 1-800-6UVIEWS. You get to leave a message
with your name, year, and college and who you will vote
for. You can also leave a comment. Ask them to run an
editorial from a College Libertarian as they have
already given space to the D's and R's. Marrou got 10%
in their last poll.

-- 
Mike Linksvayer   m-linksvayer@uiuc.edu   +1 217 344 1326
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
From: fsspr@acad3.alaska.edu (Sean P. Ryan, Hardcore Alaskan)
Subject: Re: Ballot Access in Alaska?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41.UAC
Organization: University of Fairbanks, Alaska...no wait, that's not right...
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:15:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.191635.24217@bnlux1.bnl.gov>, bam@bnlux1.bnl.gov (Bruce A. Martin) writes...
>In article <1992Sep18.115831.20149@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> gliesche@lonestar.utsa.edu (Jules D. Gliesche) writes:
>>
>>According to the Marrou / Lord campaign HQ -
>>WE HAVE OFFICIALLY QUALIFIED FOR THE BALLOT IN ALL 50 STATES PLUS DC ...
> 
>Does that mean the state has dropped all appeals?
>(Or just that we won in lower court, and there may be an appeal?)
>More importantly, has Board of Elections agreed to print ballot with 
>LP on them?

I just discovered this thread;  pardon me if I'm getting into it too
late.

The courts (specifically, I believe it was Superior Court Judge Mark
Rowland, but I don't have my references in front of me) ordered that
the Marrou/Lord and Phillips/Knight tickets be placed on the ballot in 
response to their respective lawsuits.  HOWEVER, I spoke with the
"official in charge" down in Juneau one week ago, and he said that
neither petition has been certified yet.  They weren't able to certify
the results of the primary election until October 1st, so they had
intended to wait to certify the petitions until after that time.  What 
this means is that if either or both petition is nullified, then they 
will remain on the ballot, but technically will not exist in the eyes of 
the state.  I'm supporting Phillips, so I've taken an interest in this
particular case, though I haven't had the time to dwell on it that much.

************************************************************************
Sean Patrick Ryan, Hardcore Alaskan*****Internet: fsspr@acad3.alaska.edu
WWIVnet: 220@9704*CFN: au414*IRC: RadioKAOS, Aoxomoxoa*Ph: (907)488-8365
BITnet: FSSPR@ALASKA****Snail: P.O. Box 83381, Fairbanks, AK  99708-3381
***"I'm gonna Kentucky Fried Chickenize your prostate surgery." - Oswald
Bates, In Living Color***Disclaimer?  BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!***
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
Subject: Re: Libertarians & Abortion (was: Please let Marrou debate!)
From: jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner)
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:18:21 EST
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

amc1@cec2.wustl.edu (Adam M. Costello) writes:
> nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz) writes:
> >amc1@cec2.wustl.edu (Adam M. Costello) writes:
> >>
> >>Why do I claim that children have no rights?  Well, what rights 
> >>should they have?  The right to life?  No one has a right to 
> >>life, as evidenced by the fact that everyone must die eventually. 

i think you are misreading "right to life". it is a simplification
of "the right to not be killed." yes, we all die. but that does
not give me the right to kill someone & then claim it was ok
just because "it was going to happen eventually."

> >>The only right that's really necessary is the right of a 
> >>reasoning being to exert its will over its possessions, without 
> >>direct interference from other wills.  I see any other right as a 
> >>corollory to this one.  Since children lack the ability to reason 
> >>or even to have a will (both are aquired as the child enters 
> >>adulthood, and admittedly that's a gradual process), they can't 
> >>have this right.
> 
> If you find unsatisfactory my argument for denying children the 
> right of autonomy based on their lack of reason and will, please 
> propose an alternate justification.  I'd be interested to hear it, 
> since my ideas are only a couple of months old.

i see no problem with withholding autonomy based on reason and will.
a person should not be treated as an adult unless they are capable
of functioning as such.

i -do- sincerely hope you don't advocate withholding life based
on reason, will or any other personal quality or characteristic.
when that happens we get into the terrifying question of "who
decides what qualities are important?" and we're only one
step away from another Stalin or Hitler.

jason

--
me
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
From: jkresse@ptimtc.tadw.panasonic.com (Jim Kresse ATVL )
Subject: Re: Would someone please post a summary of Marrou's positions?
Organization: Panasonic ATVL, Burlington, NJ
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 17:57:33 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.141935.16251@netcom.com> bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig) writes:
>I know nothing at all about Marrou nor the Libertarian party -- I've
>never even heard them mentioned on the news!  Would someone please
>post a summary of the Libertarian platform, to satisfy my curiosity?
>
>-- 
>_/_/_/  Brian Kendig                             Je ne suis fait comme aucun
> _/_/  bskendig@netcom.com                de ceux que j'ai vus; j'ose croire
>  _/                            n'etre fait comme aucun de ceux qui existent.
>        "Sex is DEATH!"      Si je ne vaux pas mieux, au moins je suis autre.
>         -- Barbara Bush                                         -- Rousseau

There is about a 2-4 page platform which is out there somewhere,
but I can't track it down right now.  What I can do is tell you the
pledge which members of the party agree to, and you can at least get a
start on where we stand:

"I hereby certify that I do not believe in or advocate the initiation
of force as a means of achieving political or social goals."

Jim Kresse
jim@atvl.panasonic.com

Standard disclaimers apply

Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
From: sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Conley)
Subject: Re: Libertarians & Abortion (was: Please let Marrou debate!)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 17:34:08 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.202945.10528@uoft02.utoledo.edu> jsteiner@anwsun.phya.uto
ledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner) writes:

>you're right that pregnancy is not always -intentional-. that does
>not change the fact that people should be responsible for the
>effects of their fun, whether they intended pregnancy to happen or not.
>
>auto accidents aren't totally voluntary either, but if i get in
>an accident i am -still- held responsible for the damages.
>nobody gives a flying freak if i intended to wreak that other
>guy's car or not. and if i happened to kill the other driver
>i could be held liable for vehicular manslaughter. "But golly,
>judge, I was just doing 200 klicks per for the fun of it, and
>I -was- wearing a seatbelt!"

Absolutely right, which is why both partners (or all participants,
depending on your lifestyle) should be financially responsible for
the cost of an abortion or carrying the pregnancy to term, whichever
the mother chooses.  Nobody's trying to eliminate responsibility here,
so quit pretending that we are.

Steve Conley
sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
"Chastity is not an option."
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
From: gak@wrs.com (Richard Stueven)
Subject: Re: Debate results
Reply-To: gak@wrs.com
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 19:19:42 GMT

In article 1487@genie.slhs.udel.edu, tom@genie.slhs.udel.edu (tom) writes:
>
>picking the winner and loser on this question is a real tough call.

Picking the winner is difficult; picking the loser is not.

The United States of America is the loser.

---
Richard Stueven        gak@wrs.com         attmail!gakhaus!gak        107/H/3&4
	Did William Faulkner have little creatures on his old typewriter?
	If so, they were the product of whiskey, which addles the brain less
	than cartoon creatures and menus and buttons that send messages to
	the screen demanding: "Abort? Quit? Try Again? Drop Dead? Exit? Go To
	Hell You Schnook?" - Mike Royko

Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
From: sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Conley)
Subject: Re: Libertarians & Abortion (was: Please let Marrou debate!)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 17:35:18 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.003753.10486@uoft02.utoledo.edu> jsteiner@anwsun.phya.uto
ledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner) writes:
>
>o   by destroying the life of a fetus you are also taking away its
                                                                ^^^
>    rights to liberty, pursuit of happiness and property.
     ^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^^^^^  ^^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^^^

I deny that the underlined items exist.  However, I have a funny feeling that
this has been hashed and rehashed and that nobody's minds will change by going
through it all again.  If you want to continue in email, be my guest.

Steve Conley
sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou,alt.politics.libertarian
From: gl1@cec2.wustl.edu (Greg Lyon)
Subject: Re: Presidential Debates
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 06:24:09 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.020208.3402@esd.dl.nec.com> mlee@esd.dl.nec.com (Michael Lee) writes:
>
>1% is speculation.
>
>PROVE IT WITH A SCIENTIFIC POLL.
>

   1 % is a very common estimate from the media and, based on previous
showings by the libertarians, not out of line.  

   At least I'm not using a figure like 10 % (like the U. poll) from the 
treetops without telling anyone or realizing that the polls like that are
TOTALLY unscientific.

   In many areas of the country, 90 % of the people have not even HEARD of
Andre Marrou, and of the people that have, not all that many support him...

   We shall see the true results on election day, until then, I think it's
your burden of proof which is required.

Greg


-- 
*******************************************************************************
Greg Lyon		             	         Student Union Attorney General
gl1@cec2.wustl.edu			                       Clinton/Gore '92 
Washington University in St. Louis - Site of the First 1992 Presidential Debate
From: bu008@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brandon D. Ray)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
Subject: Re: Please let Marrou debate! -- and CNN's Crossfire
Date: 10 Oct 1992 06:49:10 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


From: garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin)
Subject: Re: Please let Marrou debate! -- and CNN's Crossfire
Date: Fri Oct  9 19:41:34 1992


The Libertarian candidate for U.S. Senate in PA is (loudly)
anti-abortion.  He's running the controversial ads which
show pictures of dismembered fetuses.  I had previously
thought that the Libertarian stand did not include 
advocating the criminalization of abortion.  Was I wrong?
Is there a split on this issue?

Susan

--------------------------------------

Most Libertarians appear to be pro-choice, and the party
platform and program are unmistakably and unequivocally
pro-choice.  As abortion is an extremely divisive issue,
however, there is bound to be dissent.  There is a 
group called Libertarians for Life.  Apparently this 
fellow comes from that camp.
From: mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
Subject: Whoops
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:00:35 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

Please forgive; I was aiming for a.p.libertarian and missed.  (If anyone
here can answer the question, though, I'd be grateful for email or posts
in a.p.l.  Please don't add to my clutter in this group.)

Monica
Newsgroups: alt.politics.europe.misc
From: r0r1544@venus.tamu.edu (RUCHHOEFT, RICHARD)
Subject: Re: _name_ of the european currency
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:51:00 GMT

In article <dennis.718804621@marie>, dennis@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de (Dennis
 Schulze) writes...
>In <1992Oct8.110629.7331@arbi.Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE> Onno.Meyer@arbi.
informatik.uni-oldenburg.de (Onno Meyer) writes:
> 
>>I support the idea of a common european currency, but I'm a little
>>"unlucky" to have mark, pound, etc. replaced by an currency called
>>"currency unit". Don't you think that a real name, and not some funny
>>abbreviation, could increase the public acceptance of the common
>>european currency?
> 
>You may have a single European currency but different names for it...
>So why don't call it Euro-Mark in Germany, Euro-Franc in France, 
>Euro-Pound in Great Britain and so on? 
>This would certainly increase public acceptance and stress the national
>identity of the European nations.
> 
>Dennis
>p.s.: This is not my idea... Mr. Waigel, Germany's finance minister 
>supposed this during a session of the German Bundestag this week.
>---
>Dennis Schulze                               Free University of Berlin
>Johannisthaler Ch. 361                       Department of Meteorology
>W - 1000 Berlin 47                       dennis@metw3.met.fu-berlin.de
>Germany                               dennis@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de

Wouldn't it just be easier to interlock all EC Currencies and from now on
define a pound as 1.2 Marks and the mark as 1000 lire and so forth. Then
if John Smith goes to Italy he can use his pound to buy the 1200 lire bread.
No more worry about wierd names and loosing one's identity.

                     Richard Ruchhoeft
                Texas A&M University Student
---------------------------------
|All opinions expressed are mine|
---------------------------------
From: audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.europe.misc
Subject: Re: _name_ of the european currency
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:43:27 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <1992Oct8.110629.7331@arbi.Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE> Onno.Meyer@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de (Onno Meyer) writes:
]I support the idea of a common european currency, but I'm a little
]"unlucky" to have mark, pound, etc. replaced by an currency called
]"currency unit". Don't you think that a real name, and not some funny
]abbreviation, could increase the public acceptance of the common
]european currency?

The amusing part is that ECU (European Currency Unit) is also a word
designating an old monetary unit used in France a long time ago. Le
hasard?


-- 
                                                       Francois Audet
                                                           '
        Telephone: (613) 592-2121 x1754     Facsimile: (613) 592-4784
                          Internet: Francois.Audet@software.Mitel.COM
Newsgroups: alt.politics.europe.misc
From: dennis@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de (Dennis Schulze)
Subject: Re: _name_ of the european currency
Organization: ZRZ/TU-Berlin
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 12:15:29 GMT

In <BvyMI3.89C@cs.psu.edu> beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver) writes:

>Which term would you use in mixed company? I can imagine offending 
>a non-German by using "Euro-Mark," for example.  And what would we
>Americans call it?  (Don't say you couldn't care less!  :-)  The term 
>"eurodollar" already exists.  There would still have to be a unified
>name.

Good question. I could live with the ECU as a short form for 
European Currency Unit. I mean, this could be the official name and
national names like Euro-Mark, Euro-Franc etc. are also valid. BTW,
I don't care much about the name - more about what's behind it. But
there is no reason why a German worker should call the new money ECU
when he goes shopping while he is used to call it Mark!

Dennis
---
Dennis Schulze                               Free University of Berlin
Johannisthaler Ch. 361                       Department of Meteorology
W - 1000 Berlin 47                       dennis@metw3.met.fu-berlin.de
Germany                               dennis@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de
From: defee@tukkasotka.tut.fi (Irek Defee)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.europe.misc
Subject: Re: German hate crime resurgence and GDR education since WWII
Date: 7 Oct 1992 06:30:42 GMT
Organization: Tampere University of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: tukkasotka.cs.tut.fi

In article <1992Oct6.175347.2586@sfu.ca> duxbury@fraser.sfu.ca (Nancy Ann Duxbury) writes:
>Interestingly, the problem of neo-nazi groups may be more entrenched
>in the eastern parts of Germany than first believed. I was listening
>to the english service of Radio Deutsche Welle last night. They said
>...
>Amazing what you can hear on shortwave these days...

Government propaganda mostly...

I am pretty sure that if the recession and unemployment in the West would
be approaching similar proportions as in the East, there would be no differences
in the neo-nazi activity. It is thus hard to talk about the "entrenchment"
or origin of neo-nazi from the past. Except from propaganda...

Irek Defee
From: jl@CS.CMU.EDU (Juan Leon)
Subject: Re: _name_ of the european currency
Originator: jl@SHELLEY.SP.CS.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
	<mikael.71.718548850@udac.uu.se>
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 15:08:02 GMT


  A couple of years ago _The_Economist_ was proposing, half-jokingly,
that a future EEC currency be named "Monnet."  Jean-Claude Monnet
(I think that was his first name) had the vision behind the 
initial European Community of Coal and Steel and everything that came
afterwards, culminating in the currently unpopular European Union.
"Monnet" also sounds like "money" in English.

Juan
Newsgroups: alt.politics.europe.misc
From: hm@fwi.uva.nl (Hans Mulder)
Subject: Re: _name_ of the european currency
Organization: FWI, University of Amsterdam
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 22:50:40 GMT

In <1992Oct9.214525.6521@kth.se> mike writes:

>In article <1992Oct9.112027.27926@odin.diku.dk>, rossen@diku.dk (Peter Rossen Skadhauge) writes:
>|> olevi@daimi.aau.dk (Ole Villumsen) writes:
>|> >  But one ecu is more than a US dollar, so we will need the ability of
>|> >dividing it into smaller units. (Let me suggest splitting it into
>|> >100 of the smaller unit. :-) And then we'll need a name for the small ones,
>|> >the 'centi-ecu's. (Centi-ecu is not the right word, is it?)
>|> 
>|> Member of the EC Commission Henning Christophersen once proposed
>|> 'ecu-lette' for a name of a 1/100 ECU.

>ecu-light?

Except, of course, in the UK the ecu will be divided into 240 of the
smaller units, called "cherry-ecu"s.

--
Hans Mulder					hm@fwi.uva.nl