From: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Subject: Re: Pakistan
Reply-To: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 03:50:06 GMT

In article <ljffptINNdao@pageboy.cs.utexas.edu>, hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan
Hyder) writes:
> In article <1992Dec21.182542@IASTATE.EDU> jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed
Khan) writes:
> >
> >Do we have only Iqbal to look up to? 
> 
> No we have Quran that tells us about Prophet Ibrahim
> and we have the ideal of Mohammad (pbuh). 
> The ideals of Quran and Mohammad go beyond the geographical
> entities of what constitutes a few pieces of land.
> 
> As Iqbal reminded us about the essence of Shahadah:
> 	Yeh daur apnay biraheem ki talaash may hai
> 	Sanam kadah hey Jahan La illaha Il-al-Allah
> 
>    This age is searching for its Ibrahim
>    The whole world is now filled with idols
> 	[Is there any one to smash all the idols like Ibrahim
> 	 and can proclaim like Ibrahim did:]
> 		 There is no god, but Allah!






Iqbal again ?!! :)




> Agree to swap.
> 
> >
> >Was his dream true and right? A dream that subsisted on the division of
peoples
> >in the name of religious labels. 
> 
> The dream of Iqbal understood only in the context of
> those geographical entities is false. It was simply
> a stepping stone, which people misguidedly took as the
> ultimate goal!
> 
> Oh, I forgot. There are people, who are not even willing to take
> the first step.




A leap into darkness is foolish too. Being led like sheep is stupid too, right?





> >
> >Why was he unable to see that the ideology of the state he wished to create
> >would necessarily discriminate against non-muslims; that it would lead
neighbor
> >to fight neighbor; cause the massacre of millions of innocent people.
> 
> Well, he never knew that he  counted on people like us who are 
>  spine-less, dream less, lethargic, inept, 
> 	destitute in will, energy, and courage
> 	 capable of doing nothing except bicker
> 	about the past, instead of shaping the future.




Then he was a poor judge of people; a great poet but a poor leader.



> 
> >Why did he believe that a true "islamic" society could only be created by 
> >creating an "islamic" state? 
> 
> Yes, I wonder why?
> May be  he should have directly insisted on  a global empire!



Doesn't answer the question. Why is a *political state* required to establish
an "islamic" society ?





> 
> >> 
> >> No, we have Quran that gives us guidance. It deputes us (Muslims) to
> >> be the vicegerents of Allah!
> 
> >
> >Perhaps you could furnish some evidence from the Quran where it states that
> >its the God-ordained duty of all muslims to drive out non-muslims from their
> >lands or force them to accept the supremacy of muslims and create a
political
> >entity -> an "islamic" state.  
> >
> >Don't quote some hadith because I don't accept it as divine or in any way
> >binding. Just quote the Quran.
> >
> 
> My pleasure: [This reminds me of the Jews of Madinah who thought
                     ^^^^^^^
> 		that by resorting to their own law they will be
> 		saved by the punishment of the Prophet (pbuh).]


Well you aren't averse to playing the comparison game yourself, are you ? :)

> 
>    Fight those people who do not believe in Allah, nor in the Day of 
>    Judgement, nor do they treat as forbidden that which has been forbidden 
>    by Allah and His Prophet, and who do not make the true DEEN their 
>    DEEN; fight them until they decide to submit and agree to pay the 'jizya'.
> 		[Al Taubah 9:29]
> 
>    Insofar as Allah's scheme for man goes, the only DEEN for him is 
>    ISLAM and none other. [Ale Imran 3:19]
> 
>    And whosoever seeks any DEEN other than ISLAM, it shall never 
>    receive acceptance. [Ale Imran 3:85]
> 
> o	Primary mission of the prophet: DEEN of Allah must prevail
> 
>    It is He__ ALlah_ Who sent His Messenger with true Guidance, and with 
>    the True DEEN to make it triumph over other DEENs, caring naught 
>    what annoyance this may cause to those who associate others with Him. 
>    [Al Taubah 9:33]
> 
> o	Fight any system of thought, belief, and action not based on supreme 
> authority until unrest, strife and injustice has been eliminated.
> 
>    And continue the fight against them until all mischief is effectively 
>    destroyed and the only DEEN holding sway is Allah's DEEN and none 
>    other. [Al Anfaal 8:39]
> 
>    When Allah's help arrives, and victory results, and you see people joining
>    in Allah's DEEN in crowds then Glorify your Rubb, and beg forgiveness 
>    of Him, for He is Oft-forgiving. [Al Nasr 110:1-3]
> 
>




So what does this tell us? Kill and drive out people who are not called muslims
from their lands ? 

If that is what is being preached in the Quran, then it surely isn't a book of
God.


--Javed.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan