From: yoshi@nocusuhs.nnmc.navy.mil (D M Yoshikami)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Grammar
Summary: My Grammar married my Grammpa back in nineteen Ought Six
Date: 22 Dec 92 15:47:19 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: National Naval Medical Center

In article <4200@eastman.UUCP> beaver@esl370.uucp (Robert L. Beaver (Systems Admin)) writes:
>	My eigth grade teacher was more interested in the Buffalo Bills
>than in teaching.  Thus my exposure to eigth grade grammer was next to
>nothing (Ask me what a past participle is and I give you a blank stare).
>I've been trying to educate myself as I learn the writing trade (I haven't
>submitted anything because I don't want to appear a complete fool).

Something that I forgot to mention.  One other very good way to learn
grammar is to take a foreign language such as German or Spanish.  If
you feel like going for the gusto, take Latin or Greek.  I found
German to be a bit more utilitarian because English still betrays its
Germanic roots if you look carefully enough, although it does have
quite a buncha romance loan words (about 45% of the vocabulary).

>	From my experience with published authors and college teachers,
>I've been slightly defensive about my lack of understanding.  I am very
>willing to learn, although, it sometimes looks like a thorn bush.  These
>"respected" individuals (some who were supposed to be teaching it) found
>it easy to target me (and others) with scorn and mockery.  Their pompous
>attitude brings about the excuses in others ( Yes, I realize that the
>indvidauls with the excuses are responsible for their excuses.  I also
>realize that the "respected" individuals may have been trying to to 
>inspire the people to learn from shame, anger, etc.  Not all individuals
>respond to that however). 

"Inspiring" to learn from shame and anger is not inspirition at all.
There is no reason for any teacher to scorn and mock an ignorant
student; the teacher's role is to dispel darkness and make the
ignorant knowledgeable, and if he is not doing that, he is not doing
his job.  Working a thorny bush so that it brings forth roses is a
tiresome painful task at times.  If the gardner only bulldozes it,
there'll be no flowers. But if the gardener fertilizes the bush,
prunes it, waters it, and keep the aphids and other pests at bay, the
bush, with much care, will flower.  But is that kind of patience and
dedication easily found today?

>	For instance, while taking a literature class at RIT (yes, it
>really isn't known for liberal arts, but my degree is in Computer Science),
>I asked "I understand where you get that interpretation of the story.  Why
>couldn't someone interpret it literally?  Why would that be wrong?"  His
>answer (an approximate quote)..."You really have no understanding of 
>literature, and it's all beyond your comprehension."  That said, he 
>dismissed me and did not readily acknowledge my presense in the class again.  
>I recieved a B in the course mostly because I can interpret the way he
>wanted me to.  I still don't agree that "his" is the only interpretation.

Huh?  The general practice is to take something literally, and if it doesn't
make sense, look at it figuratively.  Of course, some things you know you have
to take figuratively (Allegories, Fables, etc) and some things you must take
literally.  Most literature should be within your comprehension, the harder
stuff shouldn't be impossible if you've done enough reading or have some help.

The saddest thing about the "Doctrine of Correct Interpretation" is that
good works will speak different things to you as you re-read them.  Often
after you have grown and matured, a good book will have different treasures
from the same words that you've read before.  Of course, the mad philosophical
type could make anything mean anything if they tried hard enough, and even
convince you that there is no meaning and that nothing exists.  This is 
called the "Doctrine of Fsshrwwwweefwherrrrrpssssssssssssssss" (It is difficult
to make the sound of radio static with an Ascii keyboard).    :-)

>	Basically, what I'm saying is that I don't think most teachers 
>today are equiped to teach.  My eight grade english teacher certainly
>was not.  As far as I can remember, very few of my english teachers
>were.  I was not a rebellious student either.  I find more and more
>things I accepted in high school to be false.  I now advise my nieces
>and nephews to question their teachers, to make them prove it.

Many eighth grade teachers are ill equipped.  Actually I had a teacher
who told us the word "is" is not a verb, but later on I find it is a
part of a highly irregular verb.  Even the textbooks are in error --
one text book told us the posessive (e.g. John's book) came from a
contraction "John His Book", the "his" being contracted -- and a few
years later, I found out that this was not the case, that it came from
the Old Englisch Strong Masculine Genitive ending ("-es", if I
remember correctly), being practically the only one that has survived.
(I think Old Anguish roots also why the plural of "deer" is "deer", it
was a neuter noun -- does anyone know the details offhand?)

The problem with some teaching, especally of literature, is that there is so
much leeway with understanding (depending on the person's understanding) that
many make it a platform to exhault themselves and boost their own pride.
Good Englisch teachers do exist -- I was fortunate to have one.  The thing that
I remember most is that his class was a lot of fun, and that English didn't
have to be trying to find the Teacher's interpretation.  Teachers in the 
United States seem to be notoriously underpaid for the importance of their
work.  They are not supposed to be babysitters but trained professionals...
but nebbich, things are often not what they are supposed to be.

DY :-)

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Newsgroups: misc.writing