HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: browne@Apple.COM (Sean Browne)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: British gun laws circa 1960
Date: 25 Jul 92 00:29:17 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA



I own a Webley Mk VI from 1918 (it has '18 stamped on it).
Mine is in excellent shape. Unfortunately, the cylinder 
was machined to accept .45 ACP rounds with moon clips.
I fired it once and found it to be reasonably accurate.
It's hell on primers though. I'm surprised none of them
ruptured. A couple times their distortion prevented the 
cylinder from moving. I really like the way the lever by
the hammer activates the top break. It's really pretty 
ergonomic for such a seriously industrial looking piece
of equipment. With full moon clips it can be reloaded pretty
quickly too. A great piece of history! I see the .38's now
and then with Military Police markings now and then. I think
they are from Hong Kong. I'll probably add one of those to
my collection some day. -Sean.
From: barry@uts.amdahl.com (Barry Needham)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Wanted: rifle/pistol ->same ammo
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:33:58 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


In article <9207190631.AA28430@iitmax.iit.edu> technews@iitmax.iit.edu (Kevin Kadow) writes:
#I like the idea of having a rifle and a pistol that can share ammunition ...
#
#Can anybody suggest a good combo, or a handgun that fires cartridges that can
#be used in a semi-auto rifle, other than .22 rimfire?

I think that this is the one area where the .44 Magnum really comes into its
own.  Marlin, Winchester and Browning all have lever actions carbines
chambered for it and there are a couple of semi-autos available as well.  The
hot rifle rounds are a bit sharp for a revolver, but they are controllable.

Barry.

-- 
Barry Needham          barry@uts.amdahl.com          USA (408) 992-2527
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: An embarrassing question...
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:37:53 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.

In article <3752@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> dcwst8+@pitt.edu (David C Winters) writes:
#
#What is/are the primary name(s) for the semi-auto only, civilian
#version of the M14??

M1A (Springfield Armory).

#I _know_ that I should know this, so I'm now hiding my head in shame...

If you were the *only* person to ever do something like this...

#RE: my mistakenly describing the AC-130H Spectre instead of the AC-47D
#Dragon Ship:  Ooops.     Which was the gunship that they called
#"Spooky?"  Was that the Spectre?

The local loose usage for the Spectre may have been Spooky, but
there was a C-119 ("flying boxcar") variant on the converted
transport gunship theme, the AC-119. It may have been called
Spooky as well.



--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of making many books there is no end...  |  What's wrong with chasing 
                       -- Eccl. 12:12    |  nebulae till 3 am?  |-(
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hollowpoints illegal in N.J. ?
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:37:00 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Laboratory, APG, MD.


In article <1992Jul21.031454.23408@csl.sri.com> dstine@cisco.com (David S.A. Stine) writes:
#How utterly humorous. It was just 4 years ago that there was a flap when the
#LAPD decided to run a trial using semi-jacket hollowpoints in service
#sidearms. They claimed that it was a good idea, since overpenetration of FMJ
#9's resulted in bystander injuries.

Since a responsible defensive user of a handgun would select hollow-point
bullets as the most appropriate choice for the intended purpose, one has
to wonder what the lay public's perception of hollow-points is.  I guess
I'm too familiar with weapons technology to grasp what the public perception
is -- could somebody who's sure of it please summarize what the "man on the
street" thinks about hollow-point rounds?  Apparently they have a bad rep..
From: syoung@pecanpi.UUCP (Stan Young)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Georgia - Land of Paradise for Progunners???
Date: 28 Jul 92 20:37:53 GMT
Organization: Pecan Pi, Doraville, Georgia


In article <1992Jul27.013407.26236@massey.ac.nz> C.T.Teo@massey.ac.nz (C.T. Teo) writes:
#Re: Georgia - Land of Paradise for Pro-gunners???
#
#Our local TV Frontline programme shown a few minutes clip on firearms ownership
#in the State of Georgia, USA. Beside showing the residents (young and old)
#carrying firearms in the open, it was said that the crime rates are
#comparatively low and that (listen to this) it is MANDATORY for household to
#possess firearm(s)!!! It this true???

You can carry openly on your own property, in your car, at your place of work,
and while hunting or target shooting.  Concealed carry (or open carry in public)
requires a permit, which the state MUST issue if you have a clean record.

The mandatory firearms ownership requirement is NOT a state requirement; there
is a small town just north of Atlanta named Kennesaw that has such a statute.
And the cities and counties of Georgia may not pass any sort of gun ban bill;
they've been thrown out by the state Supreme Court.

It isn't QUITE paradise for gun owners - but it IS pretty good!

-- 
Stan Young                                {emory, slammer}!pecanpi!syoung
From: webdw@mvutd.att.com (Bruce D Woods)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Neat baby name ...
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:33:41 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <11358@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer) writes:
#
#In article <16134.9207201957@fishn.chpc.org>, rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes:
## My IPSC practice partner and his wife had their first kid Sunday.
## 
## Its name is William Cooper <lastname_here#.
## 

Assume last name is Jeffrey?????
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: HK VP70Z
Date: 31 Jul 92 12:58:05 GMT

Simple question...

What's the going rate on a used HK VP70Z?

Rob
C08926RC@WUVMD
From: post@hpfcso.fc.hp.com (David Post)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Deputy Sheriff killed on the job
Date: 25 Jul 92 00:29:30 GMT

Blair:
[...]
 >#And in the interest of balanced reinforcement:  Yesterday
 >#an AZ DPS Officer (a cop) was accidentally shot in the
 >#chest by another officer while serving a warrant, but was
 >#saved by his vest.

And Darrin:
[...]
 >the dude with the rammer.  He shot the rammer in the hand by
 >pure accident and probably over-adrenalized and squeezed the
 >trigger just a little too much.

 >He was reprimanded for a failure to maitain control of his
 >weapon and for having his S&W 9mm cocked.  

I am wondering about this.  Aren't these good arguments for keeping your
finger off the trigger until you are on target?

I don't think the real issue is vests protecting you from the good guys or 
whether your gun is cocked.

I don't think there is any added time to fire if your finger is off the
trigger until on target, because it can be done while moving your arms.

Has anyone measured a time difference?  If not, why are these police being
trained to have their fingers on the trigger before getting on target?

To the best of my knowledge, all the pistol schools teach the off trigger
until on target technique.

David Post  davep@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com  hplabs!hpfcla!post
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ricochets
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:37:18 GMT


Alvin White writes:
#Weapons were drawn and you were carted away because you set off the
#metal detector!!!?  I think that there must be A LOT more to this
#story. I have been through airport metal detectors in probably 15

But you probably didn't have to go through one when the Desert Storm
air campaign started, as I did, or when the ground war started, as
Paul Ritter did. I was in Phoenix when the air war started, and when
I flew back to Newark the next day I though the airport had been moved
to some 3rd world country, as there were almost as many armed guards as pa              
passengers. I saw anything even remotely suspicious on the X-ray being
carefully examined by hand, and people who set off the magnetometers
were checked more carefully than I'd ever seen. No drawn guns though :)

Airport security is capable of doing this all the time if they wanted
to. And if they did we wouldn't be hearing about bogus "plastic guns"
from living-dead politicians.


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
From: pismobch@well.sf.ca.us (Ed Devinney)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Need info on W. Scott shotgun
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:51:12 GMT
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link

In article <1992Jul21.014403.23750@ncsu.edu> hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:
##On the top it has:  Imperial Damascus
## ...
#
#  The only Scott listed in the Blue Book is  W.C. Scott, Ltd. of
#Birmingham, England, which has been absorbed by Holland & Holland.
#The prices for these are high, with the 90% prices at $4,500 and up.

WRT Damascus barrels on fine shotguns, American Rifleman recently ran an
article about sleeving them with new steel barrels.  If this shotgun is
not quite as valuable as it seems, it apparently can be redeemed as a shooter.

-- 
ed devinney						pismobch@well.sf.ca.us
	"I don't know what the world may need, 
	 but a V8 engine's a good start for me..." - Cracker
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Georgia - Land of Paradise for Progunners???
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:37:41 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <1992Jul27.013407.26236@massey.ac.nz>, C.T.Teo@massey.ac.nz (C.T. Teo) writes:
# Re: Georgia - Land of Paradise for Pro-gunners???
# 
# Our local TV Frontline programme shown a few minutes clip on firearms ownership
# in the State of Georgia, USA. Beside showing the residents (young and old)
# carrying firearms in the open, it was said that the crime rates are
# comparatively low and that (listen to this) it is MANDATORY for household to
# possess firearm(s)!!! It this true???

That's just in Kennesaw, Georgia.  The federal law requiring
gun ownership was repealed in 1901.

# In New Zealand with a population of over 3M, I was told that the number of
# firearm licences for restricted weapons(small arms) is less than 3000 and these
# are strictly for sporting purpose. Essentially, you are permitted to carry
# the restricted weapon from your residence to the shooting range and back ONLY.
# Although my understanding was that there are over 300,000 general firearm licences (for rifles and shotguns) in this
# country.
# 
# GEORGIA here I come...........
# 
# C.T.Teo@massey.ac.nz

A number of American states are considerably more gun friendly than
Georgia.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.
From: steffen@stud.cs.uit.no (Steffen Baeroe)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Laser range finder
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:37:21 GMT
Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway

In article <9207270007.AA00241@leland.Stanford.EDU>, ami@leland.Stanford.EDU (Amitava Biswas) writes:
|> 
|> Hello, I'm new to this group so please excuse my ignorance. I'm looking for
|> information (or where to find information) on a laser range finder for 
|> archery. I know this is not really gun-related, but I thought this readership
|> might be able to help me out - sorry if it's too off-topic.
|> 
|> 		[MODERATOR:  Looks okay to me...  actually, I haven't
|> 		 seen anything like this for archers, and it sounds like
|> 		 an interesting engineering project to try and adapt a
|> 		 mount.   Sure would help in *practice* too, so one 
|> 		 could study one's follow through... well, I distract... ]
|> 
|> I'd like to find out what sorts of devices exist if any that enable a
|> marksman(woman) to measure distace to target, short of actually getting a 
|> ruler out. Are there laser devices that do this? Can you tell me what their
|> accuracy is, and what sorts of ranges they can measure (eg 110-300 yds?).
|> Who makes them, can they be used to measure distances to a moving target
|> (eg deer), can they measure range in real time, are they reflectable, etc.
|> Are they available with a digital readout?
|> 
|> Finally, are such devices usually gun-mounted, or handheld, or in any case
|> do you think it would be possible to modify one for mounting on a compound
|> bow?
|> 
|> I'll follow the group for a few weeks, so feel free to reply here, but I
|> would prefer it if you would respond directly to me at
|> 
|> 	ami@leland.stanford.edu
|> 
|> Thanks in advance!
|> 
|> Ami


I have seen a laser range finder put ON TOP of a scope mounted on a
Mauser 86/66 sniper rifle. I don't know anything about it exept 
that is was aprox. H 3-4 cm , L 20-25 cm , W 5-7 cm.

Steffen Baeroe
From: fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: BB Machine Guns
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:34:02 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)

Check out one of your local amusement parks or a county/
state fair, most have them on the midway where you are 
supposed to shoot the star out of the middle of a target.
-- 
##########################################################
There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES 
                 and TARGETS !!!
#1/XS1100LH	#2/10/10/92
Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
Internet: fist@iscp.belcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist  
#include <std.disclaimer> My opinions are my own!!!
I DONT CARE IF I SOUND CONFUSED, I KNOW WHAT I MEAN !!!
From: btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: revolver handling
Date: 28 Jul 92 20:38:43 GMT
Organization: Brooktree Corporation, San Diego

In article <1992Jul27.172938.3975@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> tjohnson@xenon.stanford.edu (Ted C. Johnson) writes:
#
#Is it necessary/advisable to keep an empty chamber under the hammer
#for modern revolvers (e.g., Ruger GP-100)?  Or is this just something
#that was required "in the old days", before revolvers were designed
#better?

Newer Rugers use a transfer bar to deliver the impact from the hammer
to the firing pin.  The transfer bar is moved into firing position
when the trigger is pulled, therefore the firing pin can't be struck
until the trigger is pulled.

Other manufacturers vary; some have safety devices to prevent firing
if the trigger isn't pulled and some don't.  Check it out for the
particular model(s) that are of interest.

Of course, any mechanical device *can* fail.  You should exercise
your own judgement regarding the advisability of keeping a live round
in front of the firing pin.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Winchester 97's
Date: 28 Jul 92 21:41:34 GMT
Organization: Twilight Zone

Hi folks,

I was wondering if any of you have any idea of what Winchester Model 97's
and Model 12's sell for these days.

I'm also wondering if they could possibly be considered as an Evil(tm)
assault weapon since they have Evil(tm) bayonet lugs?

The 97's occupy one of those 'special' places in my heart and I would not
mind picking one up if I can find one and it is affordable.

Thanks very much.

	-Andy V.
From: gmk@falstaff.MAE.CWRU.EDU (Geoff Kotzar)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hollowpoints illegal in N.J. ?
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:36:18 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University

In article <9207262135.AA01663@gtephx.com> forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes:
#In article <Bruy0K.JG7@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v148rb5b@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (COLLIN MCCULLEY) writes:
## In article <18982@smoke.brl.mil>, gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes...
## # 
## 
## 	As someone new to firearms, though not to firearms political 
## discussions, my impression of hollowpoints as gathered, no doubt,
## from numerous
## sources and recorded in my subconscious is as follows:  When I hear the word
## "hollowpoints" my mind automatically brings up the phrase "lots of damage to
## the person being shot".  I've no idea if this is correct, its just the
## impression that combinations of movies, newsreports, and discussions have
## given me.
## 
#
#That's about right: a hollowpoint is designed to expand more on impact and
#make a wider wound channel (bigger hole).  It is more likely to kill the
#person hit and less likely to go clean through the person and hit someone
#else.
#

The above statements run counter to the collective observations of trauma
surgeons in this country. In 1973 when high-velocity (relatively speaking)
hollow-point handguns rounds were hitting the street -no pun intended- the
FBI released a survey stating that trauma surgeons could distinguish a wound
from an expanding bullet (hollow-point) from one produced by its non-expanding
counterpart. After twenty additional years development and experience, that
same observation was made by Dr. Vincent DiMaio of the Southwest Forensic
Institute in his book "Gunshot Wounds" that was published by Elsevier Scien-
tific Publishers in 1989, I think. Correction: Southwest Institute of Forensic
Sciences.

When surgeons experienced in treating gunshot injuries are asked to predict
what kind of missile was used to produce a particular injury based on its
appearance they cannot do it. Even estimating calibers used or magnum vs
non-magnum is difficult if not impossible.

The medical literature tends to break gunshot injuries down into two fairly
broad groups based upon striking velocity; essentially rifle versus hadngun.
This assumes of course that we do not include the exotic handguns. The break
point is roughly 2000 fps but it depends somewhat on bullet design. The
difference in tissue reaction between expanding and solid rifle bullets is
much much greater than between expanding and non-expanding pistol bullets.
The point here is that bullet construction is a more important factor in
determining tissue destroyed when a rifle was used than when a pistol was
used.

As far as mortality is concerned, where you are hit and how long it takes
before treatment is initiated appear more important than what caliber
handgun or what bullet design was used. However, I have no quantitative
info in my files on mortality as a function of handgun bullet design so
I am less certain about the mortality issue than about the morbidity issue.


geoff kotzar             gmk@falstaff.mae.cwru.edu
From: btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Best defense: Machine gun or shotgun?
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:33:38 GMT
Organization: Brooktree Corporation, San Diego

In article <1992Jul21.083005.2443@email.tuwien.ac.at> holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. ALF in spe)) writes:
[ part of my original post omitted ]
#We had much of the same discussion some weeks ago in the aftermath of
#the LA riots.  While it might be interesting from a theoretical and
#purely technical point of view to have a whole arsenal of small arms 
#at your disposal, it's utterly unpractical.

I think that Holger has read something into my posting that I did
not intend: I was advocating having enough tools to do the expected
job, not everything under the sun.

#I'm exaggerating, but the bottom line is that you are better off with
#a by all standards "mediocre" weapon *and* good tactics and proficiency
#with your weapon than by the biggest arsenal of "specific tools".
#You can't be well trained with all of them and it's strategically
#inopportune to rely on a complex selecion process in a stess situation.
#It's just not practical.

Now here we agree - tactics are far more valuable than an armload
of firearms.

Something that I didn't mention in my first post (I thought that
it was obvious) is that some redundancy is a good idea; if your
single firearm malfunctions then you are in deep trouble.  Having
more than one at least gives you a second (third, etc.) chance.
And you only need to be proficient with a few different firearms,
perhaps one each of pistol, rifle, and shotgun.

Actually, I think that Holger and I agree but that we weren't
discussing the same situation :-).

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: grab-and-run
Date: 31 Jul 92 00:24:34 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <1992Jul29.015603.4044@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, andy@sail.stanford.edu (Andy Freeman) writes:
# #I saw a news program recently about that problem. The commentator said the
# #car rental agencies at the Miami airport had removed the identifing decals
# #from their cars because their customers were being cased as 'out-of-towners' 
# #and better hits.
# 
# In Florida, all rental cars have distinctive license plates.  (I think
# the tag "number" always starts with "Y".)  That isn't changing.
# 
# While tourists may not know this, everyone else does.
# 
# -andy

I'm gratified -- now you know that the "grab-and-run" robbers are
at least minimally literate.


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.
From: steve@lawday.daytonoh.ncr.com (Steve Bridges)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: "Puff the Magic Dragon"
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:53:52 GMT
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department

schow@sol.UVic.CA (Stirling Chow) writes:

##Aside from the song, the "Puff the Magic Dragon" I remember was a
##cargo plane with 2 or 3 miniguns mounted in it to fire behind the
##wings.  Miniguns used .308 ammo I believe.  The 20mm cannon of
##the same (or similar) design was called a Gatling Gun.  At least,
##that's what I remember from ROTC movies a long time ago.  (and
##then there was "The Green Berets" ;-{)  ) 
##-- 

#And if i'm not mistaken, is the "Puff the Magic Dragon" the C-130; if so it
#was also mounted with two 40mm Bauffer (sp?) guns.  Not something I would like
#sighting in on me if I was on the ground :)

The AC-47 was known as "Puff the Magic Dragon".  There was no real name
assigned to it.  It was armed with 3 7.62mm mini-guns.

The AC-130 Spectre was armed with a variety of weapons throughout it's life

	Aircraft	Weapons
	--------	--------
	AC-130A		7 7.62mm mini-guns
			2 20mm Vulcans
			2 40mm Bofors cannons
	AC-130E/H	2 7.62mm mini-guns (may have since been removed)
			2 20mm Vulcans
			1 40mm Bofors
			1 105mm howitzer

The AC-130 also used the call signs Spectre and Spooky.

The big advantage of the AC-130 over the AC-47 was the sensor systems.  It
had all the goodies --

	Low-Light Level TV (LLLTV)
	FLIR
	Beacon Tracking Radar
	Laser Designator (for marking targets for the GBU-15)
	Xenon Visible light/IR searchlight
	IR defensive flares
	Chaff
	AN/ALQ-131 ECM pod (I think the designator is right).

In the early versions, one of the gunner's jobs was to lie on the open ramp
to watch for SAM launches (secured to the aircraft via a "monkey" strap).
In later versions, he got a blister to look out of.


Steve
--
Steve Bridges, Programmer/Analyst| NCR - Law Department, WHQ-5
Steve.Bridges@DaytonOH.NCR.COM   | Phone:(513)-445-4486 622-4486 (VOICEplus)
steve@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM    | AOPA #916233
Reserve sci.military moderator   | PP-ASEL, AMEL (I want a P-38 type rating)