HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: samurai@homer.cs.mcgill.ca (Darcy Brockbank)
Subject: Re: Stability of Next as a company
Reply-To: samurai@uriel.cs.mgill.ca
Organization: SOCS, McGill University, Montreal, Canada
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:33:33 GMT

In article <1964@ltb.ltb.bso.nl> wierda@ltb.ltb.bso.nl (Gerben Wierda) writes:
> In <1992Aug23.195508.566@prim> prim!dave@germany.eu.net (Dave Griffiths)  
writes:
> at all). The only problem is that Microsoft has so much money that they can
> campaign vigorously to hide the deficiencies. Note for instance that they
> still don't have a C++ out. They must have been trying for years now.

Didn't C 7.0 ship? I thought that had C++ support...

> And maybe NeXT can strike a deal with HP.....

Not before gcc supports  "-g" on the HP :-).

- db

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: pluther@percy.rain.com (Pat Luther)
Subject: dialing into a next (actually, this may be a unix question)
Organization: Percy's mach, Portland, OR
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 23:11:18 GMT

How can I let people dial into my NeXTcube?
Right now I've got a modem on cua and a mac on cub
The mac is directly connected, and whenever I turn it on and run
the terminal program, the login message comes on. No problem.

BUT the modem on cua, if I use the same line in my L-devices, 
with "hayes2400tone" in place of "direct" still won't give the
caller the login prompt. 
If I tip dial2400, then type ats0=1 directly to the modem,
my modem will answer the phone, and even transfer characters back
and forth, letting me type to the caller, but won't give a login
prompt....

anyone know how to do this/what I'm doing wrong?
Should there be another line in my L-devices, or /etc/remote, or what?


					??pat

-- 
Pat Luther: Lex's Evil Twin
picard!pat@percy.rain.com <-- NeXTmail OK.
pluther@percy.rain.com (sometimes quicker)
luther@uop.edu (slowest of all...)
From: william@moica.berkeley.edu (William E. Grosso)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: Mail sounds?
Date: 29 Aug 1992 22:20:00 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinoko.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Aug29.024626.10576@liveware.com> todd@liveware.com  
writes:
> In article <Btpy8x.BrK@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jeffo@uiuc.edu (J.B.  
Nicholson-Owens)  
> writes:
> > I don't know if this has been said before, but elsewhere I have read  
that  
> > 3.0's Mail.app has an option to select a sound to play when new mail  
> > arrives.
> > --


How is this significantly different from using a .forward file 
to play a sound when mail arrives ?


Bill Grosso
From: greg@agog (Greg Cockroft)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: Recommendations sought for HEADSET microphones for SimonSays
Date: 2 Sep 92 01:56:00 GMT
Organization: Agog, Inc.

In article <2AA19CA3.6601@deneva.sdd.trw.com> verket@venice.sedd.trw.com  
(Paul Verket) writes:
> In article <17o6f1INNi1a@agate.berkeley.edu> et@ocf.berkeley.edu (Eric  
> Thompson) writes:
> > I want to buy a headset microphone for use with SimonSays.  (The new
> > version even has a Preference setting for headset or non-headset; I  
wonder
> > what it does..)
> > 

The headset checkbox in Preferences modifies the recognition code to  
handle the the noise that you make at the end of words. For instance if  
you say "stop" and really pop the p at the end there is a burst of air.  
This is quite loud on a headset mike because the mike element is close to  
your mouth, but negligible on the builtin mike compared to background  
noise. You will get lower hit rates if you do not set this and you have a  
headset mike, if you leave it set and you do not have a headset mike you  
will get more false hits.

> > Anyhow, if you know of headset mics that WORK and WHERE they can be  
found
> > I would appreciate hearing about it!  I've seen some in Hello Direct's
> > telephony catalog (1800HIHELLO) but I'm not sure they'll work.
> 
> I use the Audio Technica ATM71. Works quite well though it doesn't  
cancel  
> background noise as well as I'd like (My 3 year old is deadly!). I got  
it at a  
> Guitar Center.

Allot of music stores carry the Audio Technica line. The ATM71 is a step  
up price wise from the Pro8. I bought a Pro8 at Guitar Showcase in SanJose  
for $119. The ATM71 is $179 there and also takes a battery. It is a  
condensor mike. (Don't ask me what that means. I have no clue.)
These mikes all have 3 pin connectors so you need to get an adapter or  
wire up your own cable. I find that buying the connectors from Radio Shack  
and soldering your own cable works best.

One other point. If you also want to use your mike on a Sparc I would go  
with the ATM71. It has a stronger signal. The Pro8 doesn't work very well  
on a Sparc. If you happen to be at UNIX expo next month you can check out  
the Sparc port of SimonSays in the Sun booth. It will be called SayIt  
because of an altercation with HSD over the SimonSays trademark.
(I know it's a blatant plug, but I can't get on Letterman to plug my  
products :-)

	-greg.















-- 
Greg Cockroft                       greg@agog.com    
Agog, Inc.                          (517) 627-2186   fax 2673
13780 North River Highway
Grand Ledge, MI  48837
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: kucerarj@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Ryan J Kucera)
Subject: Re: NeXTdimension questions
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 22:03:51 GMT


In article <1992Aug29.211158.10769@socrates.umd.edu> ice@socrates.umd.edu  
(Fredrik Nyman) writes:
> I'm thinking seriously about getting a NeXTdimension board
> despite the (probably well-deserved) flames NeXT has gotten
> for its handling of that board.
> 
> One question: I know on-board JPEG compression was promised but never
> delivered.  Is there anything else that was omitted?  I heard that
> support for closed-captioning isn't there; true or false?
> 
> Also, I'm wondering about what monitor to use.  I Will Not buy the 
> (IMO rather pitifully bad) 17" Philips monitor NeXT OEMs.  The 21"
> monitor is very nice, but at almost $3K educational it's quite pricey.
> 
> Y'all who have been in the same situation, what did you get?  Sony or  
NEC
> 17+" multisync monitors that can handle the NeXT's scan rate?
> 
> Thanks for any help,
> Fredrik

Well I got the 21".  It was well worth the money.  Let me tell you, the  
dimension is very nice.  Even without jpeg I find a lot of uses for it.


Ryan Kucera
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: jake@skatter.usask.ca
Subject: Re: NeXT Sales figures
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 23:00:35 GMT

From article <BtGGwz.7JJ.2@cs.cmu.edu>, by anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed):
> In article <1992Aug20.164517.2148@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>>
>>In article <1992Aug20.161439.7358@leland.Stanford.EDU>
>>m@crito.stanford.edu (M Carling) writes:
>>
>>>M Carling
>>>Director, Bay Area NeXT Group
>>
>>>I believe George Bush, Anita Hill, and Pinocchio.
>>
[stuff deleted]

> Can we stop complaining about .sig's?  What is the freaking point?
> I see a lot of .sig's I've found offensive and I haven't seen you 
> complain about them.
> 
> -anwar
> 
> Bill Clinton and Al Gore, Vote Ecoterrorists in '92!
> -- 
> Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome)    School of Computer Science
> Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
> Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890

Why does ANYONE ANYWHERE EVER get their shit in a knot over something
as completely insignificant as a .sig?

I second Anwar's opinion.

jake
From: ab@nova.cc.purdue.edu (Allen B)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: Mail <> NextMail
Date: 26 Aug 92 17:30:07 GMT
Organization: Purdue University

In article <borrel.714485846@fenris.dhhalden.no> borrel@dhhalden.no (B|rre  
Ludvigsen) writes:
> Can anyone please explain how I get Mail and NextNMail to coexist?

I don't have much trouble using BSD Mail (as opposed to
mail) on NeXT mboxes.  You can use it straight up on
unincorporated mail and with -f even after NeXTmail has
incorporated it.

I'd much rather use mh (as I do on every other UNIX system). 
If someone would rewrite NeXTmail to keep its folders the
way mh does so I could use them interchangeably, I'd be a
>very< happy camper.

I can see that this would be very nice and I think small
changes to both environments would make them work great
together.  Anybody considered this? 

ab
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: moksha!mgb (Michael Branton)
Subject: Re: Back-up solution?
Reply-To: mgb@stetson.bitnet
Organization: Totally Disorganized
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 16:34:06 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.193424.3029@leland.Stanford.EDU>  
frederic@kchalot.Stanford.EDU (Frederic Chalot) writes:
> 
> I am looking for a reasonably cheap back-up solution (below $1000) for a  
> Station with a 400MB disk. I was thinking about a 1/4 in tape drive (QIC  
> 250 such as the Archive Viper). Would you have any recommendation in that  
> field, and where to find such a piece of hardware?
> 
> Thanks

I've been using a 600 Meg casette drive. It's a Teac mechanism (MT-2ST/F50) and  
I bought it from Relax, a mac outfit (510-471-6112;ask for Raylene @ X 240) for  
just under $800. I've been very happy with it. I back up my 400MB drive in  
about 30-40 minutes using dump. It comes in 2 different style enclosures. I  
recommend the portable one, as they've had some grounding problems with the  
other enclosure (called a "vista" enclosure by Relax.)

---


-Michael


  ...uflorida!ki4pv!moksha!mgb   (NeXT mail)  UUCP

  mgb@stetson.BITNET
-- 


-Michael

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: timm@void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Tim McClarren)
Subject: Re: Placing NeXTstation Slab on its Side
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 21:38:00 GMT

jgg@proforma.com (J. G. Gregory) writes:

>In article <Btr2x3.EtE@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>  
>tagreen@lothario.cica.indiana.edu (Todd A Green) writes:
>>
>>I highly doubt your bearings will go bad by turning a drive on its
>>side...

>Cooling is the big issue.  Don't put anything within 3-4 inches (8-10 cm) of a  
>forced convection (i.e. fan) system inlet or outlet.  That means if you stand  
>it up, don't block the vents.  I don't know how NeXT slabs are cooled.  But it  
>is 99% likely they use side vents, which means you need a stand.

Well, I guess 99% isn't good enough...the fan/vent is on the bottom.
Like Izumi said, I'd look into attaching a plate across the fins...if
the idea is that the fins are heat sinks and air flow across them is
the cooling mechanism (like a manifold), then without said plate, you're
probably not going to get enough air flowing directly over the fins.


-- 
Tim McClarren     | "...a bajillion brilliant Jobsian lithium licks."
timm@ncsa.uiuc.edu|
(217)244-0015     |
From: et@ocf.berkeley.edu (Eric Thompson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: The Big Question
Date: 25 Aug 1992 19:16:27 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: lightning.berkeley.edu

Anwar Mohammed writes:
>
>Now that 3.0 is allegedly shipping, when can we expect it at
>our local friendly campus computer store? 

I talked to our local rep today: the first people should expect to begin
receiving 3.0 in mid-September.  Depending on where you or your reseller
is in the queue, it may be a bit after that.  They expect to have 3.0 to
nearly everyone by the end of September/beginning of October, however.

Eric
From: waltrip@capd.jhuapl.edu
Subject: Re: Prices on c.s.n.announce
Organization: CAPVAX, JHU/APL
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 22:59:45 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.174555.347@prim>, prim!dave@germany.eu.net (Dave 
Griffiths) writes:
	[...]
> Why don't you create a subgroup called c.s.n.announce.prices, whose
> contents are identical to c.s.n.announce except WITH the unmodified pricing
> info? (Bandwidth on this group is so low as to make the duplication a
> non-issue). That way, these commercial-free subnets can just refuse to carry 
> csna.prices.
> 
> Dave Griffiths
	Now there's a neat idea...addresses the only objection I've seen to
	prices in c.s.n.announce.  Now what's that procedure for proposing a
	new newsgroup again?

_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_ _/      _/      _/ _/     _/   _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/
_/  cfwaltrip     _/    _/_/    _/ _/_/    _/       _/     _/    _/ _/ _/    _/
_/       _/_/_/    _/  _/  _/  _/ _/_/_/   _/       _/     _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/
_/  Internet: <waltrip@capsrv.jhuapl.edu>  _/       _/     _/  _/   _/ _/
_/_/_/_/ _/          _/      _/ _/      _/ _/_/_/_/ _/     _/    _/ _/ _/
Xref: sparky comp.sys.next.misc:18994 comp.sys.next.programmer:5805
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer
Subject: tarZan SOURCE CODE....
From: <JTRQC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Wednesday, 26 Aug 1992 11:04:25 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

The Source code and everything for tarZan has been uploaded to
sonata.cc.purdue.edu in  /pub/next/submissions   I had a request so
I made the move to upload the source...There are zero comments to the code
(didn't have time!!!) so if you have any questions mail me.... SEND MAIL
TO MY NeXT Account .........
                   romano@alehouse.acc.qc.edu (NeXTMail)
James T. Romano
romano@alehouse.qcc.qc.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: modman@liveware.com
Subject: Re: soft carrying cases for mono stations...
Keywords: Paget Taylor Cases NeXT Soft Quality
Reply-To: modman@liveware.com
Organization: Liveware Corporation   Fort Collins, CO.  USA.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 00:45:02 GMT

In article <6076@vtserf.cc.vt.edu> gbol@rglnext.geol.vt.edu (Gregory Lampshire)  
writes:
> 
> 
> Does anybody have a contact for soft carrying cases for NeXTstation monos?   
> I have seen ads for hard cases but they are more protection than I need...
> 
Jesse Taylor of Taylor Made and Paget Press does make custom
carrying cases for cubes and slabs as well as other
NeXT products.  He can be reached as Paget during regular
business hours.  Paget is located in Seattle Washington, USA

Todd Nathan
From: billabs@nic.cerf.net (Bill Romanowski)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Desktop to a buffer
Summary: (fake a color display)
Date: 4 Sep 92 16:36:54 GMT
Organization: CERFnet

Is it possible to have the destop "bitmap" that is
imaged by the display driver output into an offscreen
bitmap? 

Can the system be told, perhaps, that this would 
be a color(12/16/32/??bit) display on a mono station?

Maybe send the result to another system via network to 
some window somewhere (or peecee with a targa).

Color apps on a mono station? hmmm...

bill romanowski
prairie research
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: greyham@research.canon.oz.au (Graham Stoney)
Subject: Re: Prices on c.s.n.announce
Organization: Canon Information Systems Research Australia
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 04:46:21 GMT

lytras@avalon.physik.unizh.ch (Lytras Apostolos) writes:
>I think that it is not such an easy topic to decide upon, and I
>certainly don't think this discussion is 'ridiculous', as the original
>poster (the one to whom I answered initially) put it.

The discussion is rediculous because we are discussing the wrong thing. We're
discussing whether advertisements posted to Usenet should include prices or
not, when the question is whether advertisements should be posted to Usenet at
all.

Graham
-- 
Graham Stoney. Ph: +61-2-805-2909.         Totally unrelated message follows:
Since 1900, there are 23 known cases of innocent people being put to death in
the USA; but since the execution ends any effort to investigate possible
misscarriages of justice, the real figure is certainly much higher.
From: fermat@fermat.dartmouth.edu (Michael Glenn)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: TalkBack
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:20:19 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH


Do people out there ever use TalkBack?  Any interesting conferences that  
are started up often?  (involving more than 2 people)  Would it be  
possible to organize some?

I run a mud, which lets people telnet in from all over the world and talk  
to each other, etc.  But it would be way cool to actually be able to send  
voice messages, pictures, files, etc...

fermat@fermat.dartmouth.edu (NeXTmail or TalkBack)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: d1h1883@sc.tamu.edu (Dave Hess)
Subject: Re: Looking for PD Music software
Reply-To: David-Hess@tamu.edu
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:22:25 GMT


I received this from Glen Diener a while back. I have not had
a chance to use his software much but I did print an example
that looked prety neat.

> I've put Nutation on our archive server,
> ccrma-ftp.stanford.edu.  Its free for the
> taking.  Here is the README from there...
> 
> This is the first ever Beta release of Nutation,
> a music notation program based on my dissertation
> research. There is very little documentation
> on the program, but I'm working on it. Nutation has
> a long way to go, but I'm hoping that by
> letting others bang on it, it will get there
> faster.
> 
> Nutation requires OS 2.0 or later
> (I've only tested it under 2.1, but it *should*
> work on 2.0).  It is a big program...together
> with all the example files, it currently consumes
> in excess of 3 megabytes. (Future releases
> will be much smaller, but I haven't had time
> to figure out just what symbols I can strip
> yet...whatever you do, don't strip the executable!
> It won't work if you do!).
> 
> Nutation requires that the Adobe sonata font be
> installed on your machine. You can buy this
> from several sources; I bought mine from
> RightBrain software... 1-800-472-7246, or
> (415) 326-2974.  About $100 US overnight
> shipping included. I have no connection
> with them whatsoever, other than as a
> satisfied customer.   
> 
> 
> You can get Nutation via anonymous ftp from machine ccrma-ftp.
> Look for it as Nu.tar.Z in the pub directory.
> 
> To install Nutation, untar the entire contents
> into Nu.app to your Apps directory (or, if you
> prefer, to your /LocalApps directory). The 
> 
> magic incantation should look something like this...
> 
> zcat Nu.tar.Z | (cd ~/Apps ; tar xf -)
> 
> You need to execute one "dwrite" in order to get things
> working.  The "NuPath" default for Nu must be set
> to the path of wherever you installed Nu.app.
> If, for example, you put it in /user/jones/Apps, then
> you'll need to execute...
> 
> dwrite Nu NuPath /user/jones/Apps/Nu.app
> 
> 
> After you launch Nutation, the place to start is by
> going directly to the Info/Help menu item.  It will 
> 
> pop up a Nutation "workspace" with an introduction
> in it.
> 
> Don't hesitate to email me if you have any trouble.
> 
> -glen diener
> grd@ccrma.stanford.edu

Enjoy.

--
David K. Hess
Graduate Assistant                     David-Hess@tamu.edu
Supercomputer Center                  Texas A&M University
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: john@nextdoor.com (John McCracken)
Subject: Re: Stability of Next as a company
Reply-To: john@nextdoor.com
Organization: Nextdoor Software, San Jose, CA, USA
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 08:52:18 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.181314.21909@leland.Stanford.EDU>  
spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (Stefano Pagiola) writes:

> C.A. sells their NeXTs at full list price, so it may not be  
> surprising if they're not doing too well with it.

At LEAST list price!  I remember last year they had a little expo at the
Santa Clara convention center.  Jobs gave a demo and talked about NeXT's
then-cozy relationship with Computer Attic.  They had some NeXT hardware/
software bundles with "show-only" special prices.  Guess what?  The
special prices totaled *more* than the combined list prices of the
pieces.  Shit!

I recently called them for a price on the CD-ROM/3.0 bundle.  The salesman
claimed he hadn't heard of NeXT's $695 list price promo deal.  He wanted
to sell me the CD-ROM only for $895.  What a joke!  I can't believe C.A. is
NeXT's #1 commercial reseller in the S.F. Bay area.  I bet if they'd knock
25-30% off their prices, put the NeXTs in the fronts of their stores, and
advertise a bit, they'd triple their sales.

-- 
 John McCracken                   White Computers
 john@nextdoor.com                  Can't Jump
 NeXTMail welcome
From: chesnutt@adobe.com (Stan Chesnutt)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: ModPlayer unpacking instructions needed
Date: 1 Sep 92 22:54:31 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tuesday Weld Fan Club

Hi:

I have copied the file "ModPlayer_V2.4.tar" from the sonata submissions
directory.  This file contains the element "ModPlayer.app.squfold".

Both my NeXT and I are confused by the suffix "squfold".  How can I create
an executable from this file?

Thanks,
stan

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Stan Chesnutt,  Adobe Systems			      chesnutt@mv.us.adobe.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: ciardo@cs.tu-berlin.de (Gianfranco Ciardo)
Subject: Re: Prices on c.s.n.announce
Organization: Technical University of Berlin, Germany
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 10:48:39 GMT

In article <!xtygpa@rpi.edu> gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn) writes:
> In any case, I would kinda like to see the prices included too.

Good!

> I do have some reservations though.  I don't want to see the newsgroups  
> flooded with pricing wars, and I don't want to see the newsgroups flooded  
> with product information.  Assuming the prices show up only in moderated  
> posts (to csn.announce), maybe there isn't much danger of the above  
> happening.  I don't feel comfortable about it, however.

Maybe???? There is exactly as much danger as there is now!!!!
Why should the "commercial advertisement" increase once the price is allowed?
At most, there will be more reasons to do repeated postings following a price
change, but that seems much better than seeing an announce saying that product
XYZ is now selling at the reduced price of $xxx.xx, down from $xxx.xx. :-(
Now, that will be informative!

The moderator will still have the opportunity to refuse a posting if it
is a repeat, exactly as much as he does now.

> I know if *I* was selling something, there would be a strong temptation for  
> me to figure out any way possible to keep my product in the "public eye"  
> (usenet) for as much as possible.  I don't want usenet to become the  
> electronic equivalent of my own US mailbox, where I get much more junk mail  
> than real information.

What has this to do with the "price" VS. "no price" issue ?????
The possibility of being flooded with commercial advertisement is already
here.  The reason we do not see twenty times a day ads for product XYZ in
the csn* newsgroup is certainly not the "no price" policy currently in place.

I don't mind a discussion about the price issue in this group, but please,
let's use some solid arguments.

BTW, I find it funny that the price censorship applies to actual values,
but not to orders of magnitude (I am sure everyone has noted the $xx.xx
VS. the $xxx.xx in several postings, lately).
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.hardware
From: frederic@kchalot.Stanford.EDU (Frederic Chalot)
Subject: Back-up solution?
Keywords: back-up, tape, QIC
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 19:34:24 GMT


I am looking for a reasonably cheap back-up solution (below $1000) for a  
Station with a 400MB disk. I was thinking about a 1/4 in tape drive (QIC  
250 such as the Archive Viper). Would you have any recommendation in that  
field, and where to find such a piece of hardware?

Thanks

                           -------*****-------
    Frederic Chalot, Scientific Computing & Computational Mathematics
           Division of Applied Mechanics, Stanford University
   "Il n'est pas defendu d'attendre et il est toujours doux d'esperer!"
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc