HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tjreynol@zephyr.cair.du.edu (The Jumpin Dude)
Subject: Re: the best
Organization: University of Denver
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 01:37:17 GMT

In article <744.2AA60ED1@ehsnet.fidonet.org> SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org (SKYDIVE) writes:
>Reply-to: Bill.Caefer@p0.f853.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Caefer)
>Fido-To: romulus!cbnews.cb.att.com!tel
>
> r> To: romulus!cbnews.cb.att.com!tel (thomas.e.lester)
>
> r> I certainly don't mean to condemn any single individual, but the
> r> tone of this group seems to be one of dare devils seeing how
> r> far they can break the rules and get away with it.
>
> r> Is that part of the nature of people that sky dive ???
>
>No.  It most certainly is NOT the nature or attitude of skydivers.  It is only a couple of assholes/jerks who think rules are not for them.  These kinds of people exist in EVERY group.  I'm sure you know some guys like this also in the crowds you hang out with.

i wonder how many times you people throwing around "asshole"
"assholes/jerks" and "darwinism" have driven home from the DZ
after a night of drinking. or broken the speed limit. or not 
used your turn signal properly.

keep your name calling to yourselves.
From: jerrys@umiacs.umd.edu (Jerry Sobieski)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Please define a few abbreviations
Date: 31 Aug 92 16:00:58 GMT
Organization: UMIACS, University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742

In article <1992Aug31.140325.11649@seq.uncwil.edu> cosper@seq.uncwil.edu (Kit Cosper) writes:
>nws@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Eddie Roberts (The National Weather Service)) writes:
>
>>   defined.  Can someone help me out on the meainings?
>>   (I guessed on a few...correct me if I am wrong)
>
>>	-   BSR

		"Basic Safety Regulations".  The set of rules laid down by
		the USPA by which all members and affiliates are expected to
		comply.  The USPA is not a government organization,
		and therefore, the BSRs are not law.


>
>>	-   FAR         Federal Aviation Regulations.

		The FAA is part of the government, and so, FARs *are* law.



>>	-   The difference between a throw-away pilot-chute and a
>>	    pull-out pilot chute.

	Commonly called "throw-outs" vs "pull-outs".
	With a throwout, the pilot chute is packed is pocket
	outside the main container (generally on the legstrap).
	The pilot chute bridle is attached to the closing pin
	on the main container.  The bridle continues past the pin
	into the container and is attached to the canopy as normal.

	On deployment, the pilot chute first pulls the main closing 
	pin, then continues on to deploy the main canopy.

	A "pull out" pilot chute, however, is packed inside the
	main container with the main.  A short bridle extends
	from the pilot chute to a small handle outside the closed 
	main container.  This short bridle is attached to the
	main closing pin and to a small handle (or the "pud").

	At deployment, the jumper grasps the pud, and extracts 
	the main closing pin at the same time as they deploy the
	pilot chute.

	The relative merits of each are still being argued 
	(Generally by the throwout guys.)
	The pullout system will not have a pilot chute in tow
	if a total occurs, and will not horseshoe (due to the
	pilot chute) if a premature pack opening occurs.


Jerry

-- 
Domain: jerrys@umiacs.umd.edu		    Jerry Sobieski
  UUCP:	uunet!mimsy!jerrys		University of Maryland
 Phone:	(301)405-6735		Institute for Advanced Computer Studies
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From: bob@pta.pyramid.com.au (Robert Vernon)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: you aren't going to believe this...
Summary: Or dumb things students do and say.
Date: 2 Sep 92 11:01:39 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Sydney

In article <1992Sep1.143918.23279@daffy.cs.wisc.edu> sparkie@uhura.cs.wisc.edu writes:
>Well someone went and picked him up.  When we examined the rig, the  
>reserve steering toggles were out of the reserve container.  It turns out  
>that this guy saw the reserve toggles, DUG THEM OUT, and tried using them  
>to steer his main canopy!  It wasn't until about 300 - 500 ft that he  
>realized that there were much more accessable steering toggles right above  
>his head!
>
>Aren't students amazing?

2 of my favourite student stories :

-  The student who cut-away because he couldn't pump the slider up.
He flared the canopy twice as he was taught but the slider stayed
down, so he used his emergencies procedures.  He did everything by the
book, except for one misunderstanding.

-  The student who steered her square canopy all the way to the ground
on rear risers because she thought she had a round parachute.  Her
conversation with the TCO after she landed went something like :

   TCO: Why didn't you use your toggles.
   S  : I was taught to steer a round parachute with rear risers.
   TCO: But thats for a round reserve.  This is your main.
   S  : Yes.  I had a round main.
   TCO: Did it look round when you looked up.
   S  : It looked a bit funny.  But the end cells were open and I
        pumped the slider down, so I thought it would be OK.
   TCO: (One of us is confused).


Bob V!
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: tjreynol@zephyr.cair.du.edu (The Jumpin Dude)
Subject: dreams
Organization: University of Denver
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 01:28:37 GMT

Richard's article finally got me; I've had about 10 skydiving nightmares.
anyone else? i'll describe some of them in some detail if anyone's
interested.

tim
From: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org (SKYDIVE)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Boogie Ad
Date: 2 Sep 92 04:19:06 GMT

Reply-to: Bill.Caefer@p0.f853.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Caefer)
Fido-To: romulus!zia.aoc.nrao.edu!dbriggs

 r> Blue Skies,

 r> (Any hints on getting a stand up right out of the plane door?  I tried it
 r> today, and really didn't hit it at all.  I think went head down a bit and
 r> just ended up going belly stable.)

Just remember that a stand up at exit time isn't feet to earth.  It's feet toward the relative wind, which is almost direction of flight.

Bill Caefer
NSCR-1369

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From: artb@hplsla.hp.com (Art Bori)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: DZ's near Vancouver BC
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:39:45 GMT
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA

In article <rec.skydiving / davidm@slc.com (David Monnie) / 
            11:19 pm  Aug 29, 1992 />

>In article <1992Aug26.174832.7342@zellweger.ch> bisc@zellweger.CH (Thomas K. Bischoff) writes:
>>I am going to visit some friends in Vancouver BC in october. I would also
>>like do some jumps so I am looking for info (location,planes,etc)
>>of drop zones near Vancouver.
>>What's the the weather like in october. Is it good enough for skydiving?
>
>If you can cross the border, October 10th to 12th, the NW Skydiving
>Tour will be taking place in the San Juan Islands (a couple hours South
>of Vancouver BC, in the state of Washington, USA).  The Islands are in
>the Puget Sound, and it's very pretty there.  You can take ferrys there
>from Sydney BC or Victoria.  I believe jumping takes place at a little
>airport on the edge of the town of Friday Harbor.  I don't think it's a
>regular DZ, so skydiving will probably only be during that particular
>weekend.
>
>Might see you there!
>
>David Monnie
>Servio Corp
>Beaverton, OR
>davidm@slc.com
>----------

Unfortunately, the NW Skydiving Tour was rescheduled and will be
held at Kapowsin Air Sports, (SE of Tacoma, WA).  Too bad, I was at
the boogie in May on Orcas Island and it was a blast.  Although spotting
over the water and having to fly back to the island was a little 
disconcerting.

To answer the original question, there are 3 DZs close to Vancouver: 
Chilliwack, Abbotsford, and Pitt Meadows.  I think Pitt Meadows has
a Beech D-18 and the others fly Cessnas.  Heading south from BC 
are Snohomish Parachute Center (Cessnas) and Kapowsin (Twin Otter, Porter,
and Cessnas).  Snohomish is about 2 hours from BC and Kapowsin is about
3.5 hours.

Blue skies,
Art Bori
D-11402
From: eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello)
Subject: Re: Clouds?! (was Re: the best)
Keywords: safety, legality, VFR, clouds
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 19:06:19 GMT

>
>Just a couple points from the GA side:
>
>  1.  Unfortunately, IFR charts don't have any lil' parachutes.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it FAA rules that you gotta have
a (less than 6 mo. old) sectional to fly over an area (at less than 
10k or some altitude)? 

>
>  2.  If an IFR pilot is in cloud and that close to an airport, it means
>      s/he is doing an approach.  They are bound to very specific routes and
>      altitudes.  It's not a simple matter of "avoiding the lil' chutes.'

Agreed. There are certain pieces of the air that cannot be safely shared
(at all times). This is why some airspace is controlled. "parachuting
activity areas" are not "controlled", but shouldn't GA pilots stay outa
this space in order to "minimize the risk"?  Most airports tell me to
stay off the approach below 1000'. I do, because I ain't  stupid.  

>
>  4.  Most GA pilots think skydiving is cool (though they can't understand
>      why you would jump out of a perfectly good ....   you know the joke).

Actually most (non-DZ ) pilots i know think it's nuts (my brother included). 
Lack of understanding, I guess.  My brother says he doesn't wanna make a jump
unless he's punching out in an emergency. I say I don't wanna land with
the plane unless my reserve is poped in the plane!!  ;^)
From: bchurch@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Robert Church)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: how often does this happen?
Date: 1 Sep 92 02:13:38 GMT
Organization: Ohio University School of Art. Athens

I don't work with students but wanted to throw this out to those who do.
What about using an actual throwout on student rigs? Would having a system
where you don't have to break an arch or look be a help? I don't see how
someone could accidentally pull a cutaway handle when going for a pilot
chute mounted on thier butt.


-- 
*********************************************
*    bob church                             *
*    bchurch@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu           *
*    D-8195 NFS #27                         *
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: dbriggs@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Daniel Briggs)
Subject: Big container, small canopy?
Summary: How small can you go?
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 00:14:20 GMT

I'm just musing about the possible failure modes that one might run into
when combining a larger container with a small main.  Clearly, there must
be adequate tension on the closing loop, else you run the risk of a
premature opening.  And of course, a given loop can only be shortened so
far.  Is that it, when asking the question of "will this canopy fit into
this container?"

Clearly, this is something that I'm going to have to hash out with the
manufacturer of my container.  But right now, I'm a long way from reaching
for my checbook.  More in the random word association stage.  (Perfect for
a post to rec.skydiving!)  To make matters a little more concrete, I jump a
Javelin J-4, with a Raven III main and a Raven II reserve.  The main is a
real truck.  It gets me down, but that's about it.  It's 247 feet^2, and
the glide ratio isn't all that good for the square footage.  (But it *does*
open crisply and quickly, in spite of what other Raven owners have said.)
It has done me well enough for now, but I'm starting to feel the urge for
something a little zoomier.  If I hold off for another 100 jumps, maybe
even a lot zoomier!  So how badly am I constrained by wanting to fit a
smallish canopy into a J-4?  Could I put a Sabre 190 into it?  A 170?  A
150?  (Not that I'm likely to go from 247 to 150 in a single step.  :)

Blue skies everyone,  (It's good to be back!)

-- 
| Daniel Briggs  (dbriggs@nrao.edu)                      |        USPA B-14993
| New Mexico Tech / National Radio Astronomy Observatory |            DoD #387
| P.O. Box O / Socorro, NM 87801   (505) 835-7391        |
Support the League for Programming Freedom  (info from league@prep.ai.mit.edu)
From: esj@wasp.eng.ufl.edu (Eric S. Johnson)
Subject: Re: 11-Cell Canopy Question
Reply-To: esj@wasp.eng.ufl.edu (Eric S. Johnson)
Organization: U of Florida Engineering Computing Services
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 03:34:16 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.151434.1@acad3.alaska.edu> fsbgf@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
>Does anyone out there jump an 11 cell canopy (like the AR11)?? I'm just asking
>out of curiosity. Here at our small DZ we don't see a large variety of
>gear and I'm just trying to get some idea of what's out there and what's new.
>
>Brandon

Funny you should mention the ar-11. I just jumedp one this last weekend. A
guy from Strong was at my home DZ putting the canopy through some test
jump phases (packing the retractable slider wrong to see if it would 
(mal)function.

After he did a couple of these "test" jumps he said it could be demo jumped.
It was a 180 square, and in a rig with a big ole PD reserve in it. 
(for reference, my RW main is a ariel 150, and I have over 100 jumps on
a sabre 135. I weigh in it 180 without gear) 

He (my brain locks when I try to remember his name. Severe apoligies, as
he was a real nice guy and I should remember these things ;-( ) packed it
and I did a JM jump with it. 

The opening was somewhat hard, but not worse then a straight propacked Nova or
new Sabre. But when I looked up to check the canopy there was a big ole rip
on the bottem skin between the left end cell and the next left cell. The rip
was from the b line attachment to slightly past the c line attachment. 

With great caution I put the canopy through a few test turn and flares. 
It responded well, ie the rip didn't expand, and the built in turn was minor
enough to correct for so I decide to try to land it.  My approach and 
landing was quite conservative, and it landed safely.

In fact it landed fine. In fact, with a straight in no riser or toggle turn
approach it wanted to surf me. Ie, I got a good plane out with moderate
flare input, and could have gone up with more. This with 2 of the 11 cells 
basicly down. 

I was impressed. If the thing hadn't blown up I would have been REALY 
impressed. The guy showed me a patch on the right side where the same thing 
had happened ( the canopy had a bottem skin rip between the right end cell 
and next on opening). 

I look forward to putting a ar11 through the paces, once they stop blowing up
on opening. ;-) Seemed like it could be faster and have a better glide ratio
then a Nova. (which is undoubtly (IMnsHO) the slickest canopy around right now)

Ej
(When people ask me about zp canopies  I tell em:
	1. REALLY fast
	2. Hard to pack
	3. Really expensive

	Everything else is personal preference ;-)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: tjreynol@zephyr.cair.du.edu (The Jumpin Dude)
Subject: Re: More questions from a begginer.
Organization: University of Denver
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 15:54:41 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.114534.23680@ncar.ucar.edu> nws@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Eddie Roberts (The National Weather Service)) writes:
>
>4. Is there a good book for a person just of student status, plans on
>   staying with the sport but doesn't know very much about the 
>   sport.

you might checkout the Whuff- er, um i mean the Skydiver's Handbook,
by Dan Poynter. i'd seel you mine but i can't find it; the Tattered
Cover in Denver sometimes has it, or look under Aviation in a good
bookstore. or, order it from ParaGear.
your DZ has a ParaGear catalog.
you might also check out United We Fall, by Pat and Jan Works,
i really enjoed that book, and re-read bits and pieces of it all the time.
keep in mind tho, most of what's in that book is 15+ years old.

>
>	Thanks (again)
>		Eddie	nws@stout.atd.ucar.edu

tim
From: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org (SKYDIVE)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: the best
Date: 1 Sep 92 15:49:18 GMT

Reply-to: Bill.Caefer@p0.f853.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Caefer)
Fido-To: romulus!cbnews.cb.att.com!tel

 r> To: romulus!cbnews.cb.att.com!tel (thomas.e.lester)

 r> I certainly don't mean to condemn any single individual, but the
 r> tone of this group seems to be one of dare devils seeing how
 r> far they can break the rules and get away with it.

 r> Is that part of the nature of people that sky dive ???

No.  It most certainly is NOT the nature or attitude of skydivers.  It is only a couple of assholes/jerks who think rules are not for them.  These kinds of people exist in EVERY group.  I'm sure you know some guys like this also in the crowds you hang out with.

 r>  Do I need to totally avoid a DZ even on overcast days for fear 
 r>  of someone breaking reg.s and dropping on top of me ??

As much as I agree that the airspace is for everyone, flying DIRECTLY over a DZ during jump operations doesn't sound like a smart thing to do.  It wouldn't take someone breaking a reg to ruin your day.  But then again, what kind of overcast are you talking about?  You weren't very specific.

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Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: hersey@cis.ohio-state.edu (james arthur ii hersey)
Subject: Where can I jump?
Originator: hersey@gecko.cis.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
Distribution: oh
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:57:16 GMT

My friend and I are on college budgets and are in desperate need of a place to 
go skydiving.  Can anyone help us?  Fast response would be appreciated as
he leaves for school soon.       
                                        Thanks
From: jerrys@umiacs.umd.edu (Jerry Sobieski)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: how often does this happen?
Date: 1 Sep 92 22:20:15 GMT
Organization: UMIACS, University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742

In article <6490@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> yzarn@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille) writes:
>In article <10EG02VK20IR01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> drp40@cd.amdahl.com writes:
>>In article <1992Aug31.185924.25915@eng.ufl.edu>, esj@viper.eng.ufl.edu (Eric S. Johnson) writes:
>>
>>What's the difference between having an SOS (pulling the reserve handle)
>>and an RSL (cutting away?)???
>
[stuff deleted]
>The trick with an SOS system is to pull twice: once to cut-away, so you
>pull on the handle maybe 6 inches then you *wait* 1/2 sec to one sec, then
>you resume the pulling such that the reserve will open. Of course, in the
>heat of the action, this is very hard to do.....

I wouldn't try to train a student to stage a SOS deployment.  
It is unnecessary and IMO risky.

The SOS systems are designed to release first, then activate the reserve
(like you said).  If there is enough tension on main to release the risers,
the main will effectively stop as the jumper continues to fall.
I don't think there is any significant chance of the reserve being dumped
into the main - if the main detaches properly.  (And no other choice
if it doesn't:-().  

If the the student pulls too slowly, the RSL will activate the reserve anyway.
And the RSL is only a foot long (or so), so I don't think you'd get
a 1/2 second fall after separation.

Now, an AAD firing can dump the reserve into the main.

-- 
Domain: jerrys@umiacs.umd.edu		    Jerry Sobieski
  UUCP:	uunet!mimsy!jerrys		University of Maryland
 Phone:	(301)405-6735		Institute for Advanced Computer Studies
 					College Park, Md 20742
From: jerrys@umiacs.umd.edu (Jerry Sobieski)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: how often does this happen?
Date: 1 Sep 92 22:29:21 GMT
Organization: UMIACS, University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742

In article <1992Sep1.020622.312@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu> bchurch@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Robert Church) writes:
>In article <59983@mimsy.umd.edu> jerrys@umiacs.umd.edu (Jerry Sobieski) writes:
>
>>Turns out, the sequence of events leading to the first AFF level 1 fatality 
>>(occured last month) began when the student mistakenly pulled his 
>>cutaway handle instead of his ripcord.  (The student landed under a spinning
>>reserve and later died of the injuries sustained.)
>
>Any clues as to the cause of the reserve malfunction?
>
No.  The sequence of events was sketchy and 3rd hand, so I don't recall
all of what was said, and it could be inaccuarte too.  I *do* know it
was confirmed an AFF fatality.

I'll post if/when I get something more credible.

Jerry


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Domain: jerrys@umiacs.umd.edu		    Jerry Sobieski
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From: bchurch@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Robert Church)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: You may pick up your pencils...
Date: 4 Sep 92 02:24:04 GMT
Organization: Ohio University School of Art. Athens

In article <4190012@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> boucher@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Richard A Boucher Jr) writes:
>
>
>All this talk about reserve rides and a couple of recent dreams about 
>malfunctions have got me to wondering...
>
>Statement: One cannot fully define one's commitment to or relationship with 
>the sport of skydiving until one's first reserve ride.
>
> 1. True or False?

I don't think that you can really know how you will react to a malfunction
until you've had one. As to the commitment and relationship part, I think
that gets defined the day you see your first bounce. You realize that that
can and might be you and have to decide if skydiving is worth the risk or
not.

 
-- 
*********************************************
*    bob church                             *
*    bchurch@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu           *
*    D-8195 NFS #27                         *
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: laubach@hpl.hp.com (Mark Laubach)
Subject: Re: Clouds?! (was Re: the best)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 18:33:12 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories Palo Alto,CA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1scd1 PL4

galperin@endor.uucp (Greg Galperin) writes:
: Mark ends his message with:
: >STAY AWAY from my space.  The air is for everyone.
: 	WAIT!!!  You can't say that everybody has a right to the air
: in the same breath that you try to claim a chunk of it exclusively for
: yourself!  First, this doesn't make sense; it's self-contradictory.
: Second, this sounds just as bad as the people we're fighting in the
: Airport Access Defense battles who are trying to keep skydiving off
: General aviation airports.  We can't try to keep GA off of what we
: think of as "skydiving airports!"  (We'd lose!)

It makes perfect sense to me.  My space is the space I'm in right now.
Under canopy - I don't want someone else wrapping themselves around my
face.  Under power - I don't want someone else trying to disprove the
one little basic law of physics of two objects trying to occupy the
same space at the same time.  If someone is trying to kiss my plane
with theirs, then stay wayyyy over there in the air please as it is
free and stay away from the space I'm currently in , i.e. my space.
Another way of saying it is sound judgement, safety, and collision
avoidance.

Markus
PP-ASEL-Gat
D-14706