From: shetline@bbn.com (Kerry Shetline)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Losing My Religion (Was...many times tangentially removed)
Followup-To: rec.audio
Date: 12 Jan 1993 00:53:09 GMT
Organization: BBN
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <3340380@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, kirk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk
Lindstrom) wrote:
> You've changed what we were discussing into something I didn't say.  I
> stated that I don't believe digital cables will improve sound if the
> cables are shielded and well constructed.  On this we agree.  I DID say
> that jitter (some types at some levels) is audible.

Oops! I guess I got confused. The original thread (or a least one of the
ancestor threads) seemed to just be debating differences different kinds of
coax, such as $30 vs. $300, with optical as just a tangent. (There's got to
more expensive ones too. No matter how much I'm floored by some of the
prices I see, someone always manages to top it!)

 [Stereophile is...]
>Well worth the $19 subscription price since the newsstand price is $5 or $6.
>It is entertaining and I'm impressed that they use some scientific method
>in their listening tests (the low priced speaker test - <$1000! - is a good

I know there's some good stuff in Stereophile, but there's quite a bit of
serious BS too, and I don't know if I can bear to pay them for it. I'd feel
like I was paying the Jehovah's Witnesses for a subscription to the
Watchtower -- or at least a version of the Watchtower with an op-ed column.
Then again, paying for TAS would make me feel like I was joining the Flat
Earth Society.

The December Stereophile (that I read in the library) had a review of
interconnects that really strained credibility with its detailed, intricate
descriptions of how some $700(?) wire sounded compared to the $1360(!)
stuff. One kind of wire supposedly sounded like detailed building facades
-- if you look (listen?) straight at it, it looks (sounds) great, but the
side view (side listen?) shows something missing. Real poetic, I guess, but
suspect that at $700, the whole building is already there (it damn well
better be!), and can be had a whole lot cheaper, too. [But then again,
maybe ambience electrons are finicky :-) ] I'm not sure REALITY sounds as
good as these $1360 speaker wires should!

>OK 8-).  But... Math, statistics, and theory are NO substitute for listening.

When I talk about statistics, I mean statistical summaries of listening
experiments -- so I'm talking about an incorporation, not a substitution.
I'll certainly agree that when you buy something for yourself, what matters
is what you here. I'd just like to encourage people to be skeptical enough
about their own hearing that they aren't paying for the placebo effect.

>If someone believes music sounds better after they burn a $20 in their
>fireplace, I can't tell them that it doesn't as it is an art form and there
>could be a reason that I don't yet understand (maybe the smoke from the
>flame gets them high?). 

Don't worry. I'll tell 'em ;-)

While for the most part I'd say "Don't pay for what you can't hear" there
are some things that can be appreciated as simply as art. The January (93)
Audio has a review of the Mark Levinson Reference Digital Processor No. 30.
The design and the measured performance of the thing is awe inspiring. (So
is the (gulp), $13,950 price tag!) I can *almost* see buying such a piece
of equipment as a gesture of appreciation for fine (over-?) engineering.

I'm sure the MLRDP#30 sounds great, but I don't know if I could tell the
difference between it and my $1100 Panasonic LX-1000 CD/Laserdisc player. I
at least imagine that my LX-1000 sounds a little better than my Sony 5-disc
machine. (One of these days I should get a decibel meter to accurately
match levels, and an extra copy of some disc I already have and run a real
test.) I am intrinsically suspicious, however, of people who are paid to
show just how sublime their hearing is, and people, paid by the page, who
manage to find pages of exquisite distinctions upon which to explicate.
Doesn't mean they're wrong, but...

Anyway, next time I have $14,000 to toss around, I'll finish off my
basement as an acoustically-designed listening room/home theater. Now
that'll be money well spent!

-Kerry

P.S.: Anyone want to invest in this important, um...uh..., research
project? I assure you that you'll get not only a complete report, but that
special, warm feeling inside that only comes from giving to private audio
research projects.