HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Say it's so! Baseball in Tampa Bay!!!
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:21:46 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.210943.18865@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.200557.18069@parc.xerox.com> zappala@Xerox.com (Daniel Zappala) writes:
>>I'll have to paraphrase your original posting, since you didn't include it,
>>but my point was that it is difficult to buy a franchise when you are faced
>>with having the franchise lose money every year. 
>
>No team really loses money every year.  The Giants certainly haven't.  
					 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Do you have any evidence for this?

>>The above excerpt, beyond telling us that Grousbeck doesn't want to buy the
>>team, also indicates that the projected annual losses *are* in fact enough
>>to hinder someone from buying the team.  

Lurie has claimed losing about $5 mill/year. Grousbeck claimed that the Giants
would "continue to lose about 3-5 million a year" if they continued to 
play in the `Stick.

>No, it tells us that Grousbeck doesn't want to buy the team.  Since he's
>been painted in the local media as the knight in shining armor come to
>rescue the team, it's difficult for him to say "I don't want to buy the
>team".  It's much easier to say "I can't afford to buy the team".  

Uh, it might also be true. And he has been depicted as being *ONE* of a possible
several buyers for the team; the current favorite is now George Shinn, who
owns the Charlotte Hornets. He said he wants to see the plans for the new park
first.

>Let's think about whether a $10 million loss/year sounds realistic.  Say
>the Giants only draw 1.5 million a year.  My standard average ticket price,
>which seems pretty reasonable, is $8.  That's $12 million in revenues.  I
>just read the other day that the A's broadcast revenues are currently $10
>million.  I would bet that the Giants are higher: they're on better
>stations.  Let's conservatively put the Giants local broadcast revenues at
>$12 million.  This year's national broadcast revenues are $16 million.
>We're up to $40 million in revenues (more than the payroll, the single
>biggest cost), and we still haven't counted all the revenues.  There's
>still revenues from merchandising, parking, concessions.  The Giants might
>be able to come up with a way to show a $10 million paper loss this year
>(after all, the Yankees managed to show a paper loss this past year), but
>it will take some work.

And outlays?

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - These opiini^H^H damn! ^H^H ^Q ^[ .... :w  :q  :wq  :wq! ^d  X ^?
exit X Q  ^C ^? :quitbye  CtrlAltDel   ~~q  :~q  logout  save/quit :!QUIT
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man help ^C ^c help exit ?Quit ?q CtrlShftDel "Hey, what does this button d..."
From: twright@smcl415.smkt (Tom Wright)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: AL Cy Young update
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:14:51 GMT
Reply-To: twright@smcl415.smkt
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation

In article 26930@cs.cornell.edu, tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>
>Two of the three pitchers with the best records went against each
>other tonight.  McDowell (16-7) pitched a complete game shutout, his
>first, beating Brown (16-8) to take the league lead in W-L.
>(Actually, they are tied in wins, but most newspapers list pitchers
>with the first sort on wins, the second sort on reverse losses, and
>the third sort alphabetically.  So McDowell will now appear at the top
>of that list, which is more significant than it should be.)
>
>In other action, Clemens (15-7) blanked the Angels.  He didn't have
>his best stuff, but allowed only 4 hits and 3 walks in the complete
>game.  He hit one batter and struck out eight.
>
>Clemens now leads the league in ERA (2.10), strikeouts (164), and
>shutouts (5).  His next closest competition is Guzman in ERA (2.35),
>Perez in K's (157), and Darling/Mussina/Nagy in shutouts (3).
>
>Clemens is fourth in W-L (behind McDowell, Brown, and Morris (15-5)),
>is second with 9 CG (behind McDowell with 10), and is at least second
>in innings with 197.1 IP.  (Brown had 191.1 starting tonight, and I
>don't know how many innings he pitched.)
>
>If McDowell, Brown, and Morris all lose their next start, Clemens
>could possibly take the league lead in all of the above categories.
>
>Unbiasedly yours,
>-Valentine
>
>P.S. I think Fleming beat Baltimore behind Buhner's HR.  That would
>make him fifth in the league with a 14-5 record.  Good enough for ROY?
>-- 
>Ob. woof: Clemens is the best pitcher ever!	tedward@cs.cornell.edu


Just an observation, but how can you post an AL Cy Young update and not even
consider The Eck???!! A little short-sighted...

Tom Wright
twright@lsil.com
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Padre roster for mock expansion draft
Date: 21 Aug 92 03:49:27 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

I believe that J.D. Noland does not have to be protected,
but I could be wrong.  If he is eligible for the
draft, then I'd probably put him in the "second" tier;
that is, not initially protected, but one of the
three additional if he's not the first player chosen
from the Padres' roster.

btw, I *still* feel that if the Padres had fired Riddoch
in May and hired Dick Williams, they'd be in first place
or at least hot on the Braves' heels...


-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
From: pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Astacio Shuts Out Mets for Dodger Win
Date: 18 Aug 1992 22:58:06 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

Pedro Astacio pitched another complete game shut out tonight, his
second in four starts and the Dodgers second in a row.

The Dodgers stole 5 bases in the 7th inning.  Tom Goodwin
bunted beautifully for a single, his third of the game.
He stole second and stole third when Offerman walked.
Offerman promptly stole second.  Butler grounded to
third, Goodwin tried to score and was out at the plate,
Offerman took third.  Butler promptly stole second.
Webster hit one up the middle that was deflected into
the outfield, Offerman and Butler scoring, and Webster
then stole second for the fifth steal of the inning.

Another Dodger rookie, Henry Rodriquez had a clutch two
out RBI single to score Butler, who had tripled with none
out and was almost stranded at third.  Rodriquez now has
an 8 game hitting streak.

The Dodgers are showing their look of the future, and
suddenly, things don't look quite so bad.  Karros
has all but sewn up Rookie of the Year honors, Rodriquez
is hitting around .300, Goodwin is getting ready to
replace Butler, Offerman is settling down at short,
Young is getting work at second...and the two Pedros
will soon be starting for the Dodgers with Ramon,
Orel, and Candiotti.

				BleedsDodgerBlue
From: rstimets@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Phillies take rubber game against Reds  Phil/Cinci  Aug 19
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:50:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.Bt90KD.KJI
Distribution: na
Organization: Indiana University

Three two-run homers and a painful three-run eighth gave Philadelphia its
fourth win in six games and its second in a row to take the series from
Cincinnati.  
Mariano Duncan, Dave Hollings, and Darren Daulton each hit two run shots, and 
Daulton took over the RBI lead with his two.  Ricky Jordan hit a two-run double
in the eighth off Norm Charlton to ice it for the home team, 3-9.
The Reds sputtered again on offense, managing only five hits (including a
Reggie Sanders homer in the eighth) today after only four in last night's
game.  Chris Hammond lost after giving up two of the three homers in 3+ innings.
Ben Rivera won with seemingly good stuff, but then again lately anything 
fools the likes of Paul O'Neill, who went hitless (No, really) but picked up
a meaningless SacFly RBI in the fifth with the Reds down 1-4.
Steve Foster gave up the other two-run dinger; Scott Bankhead and Rob Dibble 
pitched a perfect inning a piece, and Charlton gave up three runs in one inning.
John Kruk, who went 1 for 7 last night did not play.
Barry Larkin and Bip Roberts combined for one hit, a single in the ninth by
the Bipster off the Wild Thing.  Overworked as these guys are, their .300+
batting averages aren't going be around for long, and Reggie Sanders just can't
carry the team.
The only bit of good news I heard today was that Hal Morris will be taken off
the disabled list Friday.  That seems possibly to be a call of desperation
with the Reds playing as BAD as they have, and the Braves playing the best baseball
anywhere.  With today's loss the Reds are 6 back, and will no doubt be seven 
back by the time they get to play in Montreal Friday.  

No Box today--I'm too disgusted to think about it any more.


Cinci       0  1  0    0  1  0    0  1  0    3
Philly      2  0  2    0  2  0    0  3  x    9

Wake me when it's over.

RStimets
From: Tanya_Davis.esh@qmail.slac.stanford.edu (Tanya Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: ABOUT THE GIANTS
Date: 12 Aug 92 23:27:03 GMT
Followup-To: rec.sport.baseball
Organization: SLAC



HEY ALL YOU GIANTS FANS--

I just saw a post in Bay Area Sports group and wanted to pass this info
along just in case you haven't seen it -- since it wasn't also posted here
in baseball...... a John Behlen (jbehlen@astro) has a form letter at the
end of his posting (Called SAVE THE GIANTS)-- to send to Fay Vincent ... I
think it's worth a try -- I printed it out and made a bunch of copies and
think that if everyone who would like to see the Giants stay in the Bay
Area would send one of these to Vincent, maybe we can make an impact.  Go
check out his posting if you already haven't.

--Tanya 


- Tanya_Davis.esh@qmail.slac.stanford.edu
From: hfrg@cs.mcgill.ca (Peter Choi)
Subject: Re: infield fly II ?
Organization: McGill University, Montreal, Canada
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:45:20 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.155140.26482@julian.uwo.ca> brianm@engrg.uwo.ca (Mr. Brian McNeilly) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.154417.25531@julian.uwo.ca>, brianm@engrg.uwo.ca (Mr. Brian McNeilly) writes:
>|> In article <92225.225402U43461@uicvm.uic.edu>, <U43461@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:

[... explanation deleted ...]

I'm a scorekeeper for Baseball Quebec. What we are told about the infield
fly rule is as follows :

	If the ball is a pop fly (within fair territory) and inside the
	infield, and that the infielder(s) can catch the ball effortlessly,
	then it is an INFIELD FLY (batter automatic out), runners run at
	thier risk. This applies even if under the above condition, the
	infielder does not catch the ball (not due to an error).

Usually when the ump calls the infiled fly, the ball is dead. I have yet to
see other scenerios.

			Peter
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: RC/27 for 2Bs
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:44:03 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

In article <1992Aug13.165017.11144@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.051010.4289@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>
>>There are (or used to be) some restrictions about jumping teams; once you
>>had competed for one country in any international competition, you couldn't
>>jump to another country's team.
>
>Is that the case?  If so, how can Zola Budd jump from the South African team
>to the British team and back to the South African team?

Who knows?  I do know that there was a woman basketball player a few years
back who couldn't compete for the US team because she had played on a
Puerto Rican team in the Pan American games or something like that.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: alvstad@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Joel D Alvstad)
Subject: Re: Dream Team
Organization: St. Olaf College; Northfield, MN
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 04:52:41 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.205002.24904@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.194834.16081@newshost.unh.edu> ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
>>>Oops.  Guess I must be a stat-head to not see that Cone is *obviously*
>>>the better pitcher.  More mentally stable, too (NOT!!!).
>>
>>	Jesus, I wouldn't exactly call Clemens mentally stable.
>
>Neither of them is a model of sanity, but I think Cone out-flips
>Clemens.  Has Clemens ever gone non-linear while baserunners score
>unchallenged?
>
>Cheers,
>-Valentine
>-- 
>Ob. woof: Clemens is the best pitcher ever!	tedward@cs.cornell.edu

Has Cone ever been tossed from a LCS game for uttering obscenities towards the
umpire???

Joel Alvstad 
St. Olaf College
Northfield, MN
alvstad@stolaf.edu

TWINS 1992--Back 2 Back!!!


From: mjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Sabatella)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 22:07:23 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Emotional Attachment to Teams
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

In article <1992Aug13.192643.801973@locus.com>, aardvark@locus.com (Warren Usui) writes:

>However, I still root for the same team, even though the players have
>changed.  I find this irrational because I have no real reason to root
>for them.  So I would like to ask the net this question to any hardcore
>fans of any team out there:  Would you root for your team, even if the
>entire personnel of that team changed, just because it's your team?
>
>For example, let's say you are a New York Met fan.  You just heard it
>was announced that the entire New York Met team was traded for the
>entire Boston Red Sox team.  If you were going to a game that day,
>would you root for the ex-Boston guys just because they were wearing
>Met uniforms?

This is not as hypothetical as it seems, as any A's fan the days of Charlie
Finley's fire sales and the mass exodus of free agents around 1976 could tell
you.  I'll tell you what I did - I still followed the A's - although I lived
in Connecticut in Florida, and had never even been to California - but
developed a deeper attachment for the California Angels, who picked up several
ex-A's, and in particluar, Joe Rudi (funny, my heart still pounds just to see
that name in type :-).  This attachment wore off as my ex-A's retired or left,
although Wally Joyner did his best to keep it alive.  The A's were temporarily
relegated to my second favorite team, at least until I moved to the Bay Area
about five years ago...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc "Dave" Sabatella		Disclaimer: OPS is not the One True Statistic
marc@fc.hp.com			that makes all others obsolete
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mmmm - po-ta-to chips!" - John Stuart Mill
From: gene@ok.sw.stratus.com (Eugene Loparco)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Oriole News -
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:06:20 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering

In article <1992Aug17.172614.29772@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <86333@netnews.upenn.edu> blankman@sel2.hep.upenn.edu (Alan Blankman) writes:
>
>>Give me Eddie for Milligan, any day. I'd take back the Glenn Davis deal, too.
>>All we've seen from Davis is a lot of injury and a brief spurt of hitting 
>>recently.  Schilling is doing great with the Phils - 10-7, 2.68 ERA as of 8/11.
>>Harnisch is in the Unlucky pitchers list (see article 82723), and Finley is doing 
>>just fine with his 11 triples...
>
>I don't think anyone will hesistate at taking Finley, Harnisch, and Schilling
>back for Glenn Davis, but why do you want to take Murray back for Milligan?
>Murray is having a subpar year for a first baseman, while Milligan's is above
>average, even when accounting for the park differences.  And Murray is 6 years
>older than Milligan.
>

How is Milligan having an above average year and Murray a subpar year for
first basemen?  Last time I checked Milligan was having a pretty mediocre
year FOR ANY POSITION, let alone first base.  And although I don't have any
stats in front of me, I thought that Murray was having a decent year.  Are
you one of those walk devotees who thinks that a walk is the most important
offensive stat there is?  That's the only way I can understand your statement.

This will probably clear things up...

Who's having a better year, Randy Milligan or Don Mattingly?


-Gene
From: rsk@ssurf.ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Left-Handed Knuckleballers??
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:21:25 PST
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: ssurf.ucsd.edu

   This may be a strange question, but during a recent discussion about
Tim Wakefield and his knuckleball, a friend of mine mentioned that he used
to play in a league with a left-handed knuckleball pitcher!  Does anyone
know whether or not there has ever been a left-handed knuckleballer at
the major league level?  Thanks!

Ron Kaufmann
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Subject: Re: Inf-fly WAS(Re: Mel's Enfant Terrible Todd (WAS Question-infield fly rule))
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:46:17 GMT


In article <1992Aug16.012944.11685@midway.uchicago.edu>  
thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:
> In article <1992Aug15.175003.16739@cs.rose-hulman.edu>  
rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert) writes:
> >Nope. If there's a runner on first only and the fielder drops the popup
> >the runner will have had sufficient time to get to first base. No DP.
> 
> But that's only if the runner's going.  No runners going to go on a popup
> because if the popup is caught, they'll be doubled up if they do go.

Sorry 'bout that. Corrected version:
If there's a runner on first only and the fielder drops the popup
the batter-runner will have had sufficient time to get to first base. No DP.

john rickert
rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
half ewe thing huh spill chigger is gong two fax awl ewer probe lambs, 
yew heave got an other thin gumming
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Oriole News
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 00:26:50 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.235657.17683@leland.Stanford.EDU> paladin@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jason Gische) writes:

>I don't undertand what's wrong with Eddie Murray's numbers.
>Last I checked he was hitting around .260 but was in the top ten in the league
>in RBI and in the top five in the league in doubles.   It's not his best season, but I sure wouldn't call it a poor performance.  Especially in a year that looks to be dominated by pitchers for the most part.

A year dominated by pitchers?  Check Brady Anderson's and Rene Gonzales' career
numbers vs. their numbers this year. :-)

Besides, when you are batting cleanup, it is not that difficult to be in the
top 10 in RBIs!  Pete O'Brien had a thoroughly horrible season last season, but
he had 81 RBIs.  Murray's OBP is pathetic, and that means that when he walks
up there, *68%* of the time he will make an out.

>Please leave Eddie alone.  He's been one of the few bright spots for us Mets fans.  Pathetic, I know.  At least he's not on the DL!

You are getting the honest truth.  (And I don't think I provoked this one
either.)

Bobby Bonilla's contribution, despite injuries, was much greater than Murray's.
(I am not even sure if Murray's contribution is positive.)  Magadan also did
an excellent job.  Murray is *not* one of the Mets' more valuable players.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: gaf5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Gail A. Fullman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Last-place Cy Young
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:30:06 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1137.2a8ba9c3@atlas.nafb.trw.com>, dsimon@atlas.nafb.trw.com writes:
>I'm rooting for Boston to end up in last place and Clemens to win
>the Cy Young Award.  Of course, in his acceptance speech, Clemens
>would defer all of the credit to his team mates.
>
>Has the Cy Young Award ever been awarded to a pitcher on a last place team?
>------------
>Dan
>
Steve Carlton for the Phillies, 1972.  Carlton had a record of 27-10.  He won
about half the games for the Phils that season.
-- 

        ***********************
        *   Gail A. Fullman   *
        *   Manager - ADMO    *
        *   Ext. 83113        *
        ***********************
From: 2me@mace.cc.purdue.edu (M Bosilovich)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: simulation games
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:53:05 GMT
Followup-To: Sender
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University, Dept. of Earth and Atmospheric Sci.

In article <17AUG199216124689@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu> hasch@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Bruce M Hasch) writes:
>In article <1992Aug15.002524.690@adobe.com>, snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes...
>>In article <14AUG199216220398@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu> hasch@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Bruce M Hasch) writes:
>>>It's interesting to note that the board game ratings for PTP are different
>>>than those used in the computer version of the game.
>> 

>>>computer version had very different ratings (for example, Van Slyke was
>>>given the highest 'range' rating in the board game (certainly justifiable)
>>>, but a rating of FAIR in the computer game!!).  There are numerous
>

I have a thought on this, but I am not very familiar with the computer
simulation. Perhaps if a rating of Excellent is given, the results
might be unrealistic. For instance, in the simulation, he may start
fielding foul balls. Is there any player in the computer version
given a better rating than fair, and if so, what are that players
other ratings. It would seem to me that that the different parameters
that define the player may interact. 

I would like to learn more about computer simulations of baseball
games. Can Anyone e-mail me with more information. 
Sorry I got in on this discussion late, I've been away from this 
group for a while.

Thanks in advance,
Michael G. Bosilovich
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: It ain't over yet
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:42:01 GMT

In article <4656@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek) writes:
>I mean I'm certainly no expert in contract law but didn't Lurie's public 
>announcement of an acceptance of an offer for the purchase of the team 
>constitute a valid contract?  I know the "best interest of baseball" clause
>carries alot of weight in internal baseball matters but now that the deal 
>has been struck with the city of Tampa to not carry through for no other reason
>than an offer from a local buyer n SF would seem to be an open and shut law
>suit for the city of Tampa.

There's little doubt in my mind that if MLB rejects the sale, the Tampa Bay
ownership group will file a lawsuit.  Can they win?  You'd have to ask
someone who knows a lot more about the law than I do.   In the agreements
between the teams, MLB retains the right to approve or reject sales of
teams.  The question would likely hinge on whether or not MLB could reject
a sale for any arbitrary reason (as well as what the nature of the reason
was should they reject the sale).  For example, should the Tampa Bay
ownership group turn out to have ties to legalized gambling, they'd
probably have a harder time in any lawsuit against baseball.  However, were
MLB to reject the sale because there was a local buyer, and MLB prefers not
to move teams, it's harder to say.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball