From: keith@sisters.cs.uoregon.edu (Keith Steiger)
Subject: Re: Yet more civilization questions
Organization: University of Oregon Computer and Information Sciences Dept.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 00:02:21 GMT

In article <BvpEA8.CIv@fc.hp.com> koren@fc.hp.com (Steve Koren) writes:
>I have some questions.  For reference: I can do well consistently at
>level 1 ("Chieftain").  Level 2 ("Warlord") feels like an even match,
>and level 3 ("Prince") I can only do well at until the mid 1800s or so,
>and then things go downhill quickly from there :-)

I play most games at the King level, and play games at the Emperor level when
I don't have enough stress in my life.  Now that school has started, I just
play at the King level.  ;-)

>  - I usually move from Despotism to Republic as quickly as possible,
>    skipping all intermediate steps.  Is there any particular reason to
>    go through the others?  It doesn't take very long to develop the
>    Republic, and that's usually about the time I want to change anyway.
>    I figure that the fewer governmental changes, the better.

I don't find that Monarchy is too much trouble to pick up along the way, so I
tend to just grab it.  And since Monarchy makes your population grow faster
if you have fish, game, or irrigated squares, it just makes everything else
in your civilization go that much faster.

>  - Along similar lines, I usually stay at Republic for the duration of
>    the game and not move to Democracy.  From the description in the
>    manual, Democracy sounds very close to Republic, except that you
>    make more citizens unhappy by moving military units out of the city.
>    Is there any good reason to go to Democracy instead of Republic?  It
>    just sounds harder to keep your people happy.

Democracy eliminates corruption, but all in all, I and many others feel that
it's not worth the added problems.  It makes it harder to have a military, and
it makes civil disorder MUCH more serious--if it doesn't end after one turn,
your civilization goes into ANARCHY.  Unless you know exactly how to deal with
Democracy, staying with Republic is better.

>    Along about
>    2040 or so, the game puts up a banner saying, "<your leader> plans
>    retirement in 20 years!".  (This is *without* using the retire
>    option in the game menu).  Then, in 20 years, the game ends.

This is mentioned in the system-specific manual.  The game has a time limit
built in, and this time limit gets shorter at higher difficulty levels--
although not much shorter.

>  - Similarly, does it seem to anyone else that there isn't enough time
>    to get all the needed advances and build the spaceship?  Here's what
>    happens for me.  I start out with a 100% scientific budget.  I get a
>    new discovery about every 8 to 11 turns.  As soon as possible, I
>    convert to Republic, and build libraries, universities, and a few
>    scientists.  I have to lower the scientific budget to about 50% or
>    so in order to make some money, but with everything else, I still
>    get advancements about every 15 to 21 turns.

Okay.  Some of the things you can do to increase scientific production that
you don't mention:  Build roads.  Make more cities.  Build railroads.  Get
one of the knowledge/trade Wonders of the World.  Build more roads, even if
your units never use them.  Make trade routes.  Cover EVERY desert, plains or
grassland square in the city radius with roads.  Build marketplaces and banks,
and then lower your tax rate.  Increase the population of the city--with
irrigation and granaries--so you can use more roads.  Steal other people's
technology, through diplomats or through capturing a city.  And, finally,
make sure you've built enough roads.

>  - Often, I build a large city which is more or less thriving.  Then,
>    some units from another civ. will move in and plop themselves on top
>    of the squares around my city, and "pillage" to destroy the
>    irrigation and mines.  I can't kick them out, because my Republic
>    government won't let me break a truce.  Why can't I "return the favor"?

They aren't pillaging.  However, the people in the city can't use a square
while a military unit from another civilization is sitting on it.  You can
do this to the opposition--just sit some units on irrigated and roaded squares
near their cities.  This sometimes provokes the computer into breaking the
truce, but sometimes you have to break it yourself.  One hint about this:
Start a revolution, break the truce during the period of anarchy, and then
go straight back to the original form of government when it asks you what
government type to choose.

>  - Similarly, once in a while enemy units will surround my city with an
>    impressive array of military hardware, building up what is obviously
>    an invasion force over about 5 or 10 turns.  Doing this, they can
>    stop *my* units from moving near them.  They are obviously going to
>    invade, but I can't attack them first.  So I have to sit there and
>    wait for them to attack me.  Is there any way to be a bit more
>    proactive about this?

You can ALWAYS move units into one of your own cities, so unless they have 3
or more units well-placed around your city (so you can't even get near it)
you can move units in.  I tend to either break the treaty, as seen above, or
rush city walls in the city in question, or just keep the computer on the
defensive.  The computer is so much worse at defense than at offense, it's
frightening.  Give him something to think about.

>  - How much does it cost to "support" various military units?  Often,
>    right before a critical battle, I'll get a message like "Boston
>    can't support battleship!" and my battleship will up and disappear
>    off the face of the map.  This can be annoying!

One gold per unit--straight from the "production" (shields) of the city.
Except under Despotism, where units are free.  Remember, you can "home" a
unit to a different city, at which point that city pays maintenance costs.
I tend to have one barracks-equipped city pumping out military unit after
military unit, and then I "home" the units elsewhere to stop them from slowing
the production of the producing city.

>  - Is it useful to enlist the aid of one civilization against another
>    you are at war with?  I've never done this because they always
>    demand some huge fee (like 2000 units) that I'm not able to pay
>    since I've used most of my money to buy hardware to fight the folks
>    who declared war on me in the first place.

I rarely do this.  If you're ahead, you don't need them; if you're behind,
you can't afford them.  Either way, they're not that helpful, and they
sometimes take your money and don't attack the opposition, particularly if
they have a peace treaty with the opposition.

>  - What's the "optimal" number of cities to found early in the game?  I
>    usually try to get about 5 to 7 major cities.  Usually 2 or 3 of
>    them turn out to be really good, 1 or 2 are a big flop, and the rest
>    are average.  Is there any reason not to build more cities early in
>    the game in order to get more production capacity later?  I've been
>    thinking about trying, as early as possible, to send out as many
>    settlers as possible to found new cities.

I produce one militia, a settler, another militia, and then I build NOTHING
but settlers and temples (mostly settlers) for two THOUSAND years or so.
Until you meet the opposition, military units are just for exploration; and
when you do meet them, getting a peace treaty is usually not that hard.  Peace
treaties are good until you get Republic, at which point breaking them becomes
hard.  Until then, take peace treaties unless they're in your way.
	
>  - I've found that the size of the continent you start on has a lot to
>    do with how well you can do.  Since it takes a little while to get
>    ships, you are sometimes limited to 3 cities or so if you have the
>    misfortune to get a small island from the beginning.

Either play on Earth, or make a custom world with "large continents".  Unless
you LIKE being on tiny islands, or want that extra challenge.

>  - There are 20 squares around your city to put people in.  After your
>    city size reaches 20, what happens to the extra people?  (I've never
>    gotten a city over 19, but I've heard its possible).

They are forced to become specialists.  It's amazing how much knowledge a city
with a library, a university, and 15 Einsteins can produce.  ;-)

>  - After you get a better defensive unit type for a city, is there any
>    reason to keep the old type around?  Should i keep militia after
>    I've gotten riflemen?  Is there any cost to support them if they are
>    in the city itself?

They do have a maintenance cost once you're past Despotism.  And I tend to
be one step back in the "militia/phalanx/musketeer/riflemen" chain, but I
demolish the units two steps back.  So when I get riflemen, I destroy all
phalanxes.

>  - Whenever I'm in the "negotiation" menu, the "demand payment for our
>    trouble" option is always greyed out and unselectable.  Why?

It depends (I believe) on how scared the opposition is, and under what
circumstances the peace was achieved.  Generally, if it's ghosted out, there
isn't any chance of getting tribute.  (Of course, when it is active, you don't
usually get tribute, either.)

My general impressions from the article are that you aren't making enough
settlers, particularly for roads/irrigation/mining purposes.  It takes a while
to know when to improve the area.

	Keith Steiger
	"I haven't played Civilization in weeks!  This school thing...."