From: robert@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Rob Karmolinski)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Christianity is Stupid
Date: 27 Sep 92 13:51:13 GMT
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department


"Jordan M. Wolbrum" <jw67+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Just as an aside, I was wondering if T-shirts like this really solve
>anything.  I mean, I think the reason most of us don't believe in God,
>or observe a religion is because it doesn't make sense to us.

Yes, T-shirts like this *do* solve something.  For those of us who are
*willing* to admit that we don't believe in god, then *yes*, nonsense is
a really good reason.  But, there are a whole lot of people that do not
believe in god *or* christianity who are ashamed to admit this, due to
social (peer) pressure, or whatever reason.  So these people go through
the motions, going to church, donating support and/or money to these
religious organizations, and infecting their children, thereby giving
christianity (and other religions), a credibility and profitability they
do not deserve.  Christian leaders count their flock, and use these
numbers for political gains against non-christians in ever so (and not
so) subtle ways, often to the detriment of society as a whole.  Such
t-shirts serve to re-inforce the idea among those who have never had
reason to question this before, that it *is* ok to be non-christian and
that there are *valid* reasons to do so.  We need to get the word out
that there *are* non-christians, and that this is a *good* thing to be.

>								If our
>beliefs(nonbeliefs?) are to appear credible, should we be reacting in
>such a crass, unintellectual manner.  I am not a Christian, nor a member
>of any other religion, but I would find these T-shirts offensive, just
>as I find it offensive when Pres. Bush says athiests would not make good
>citizens.				     ^^^^^^^^ [sic]

"Our" beliefs will *never* appear credible among the devout christians,
or those dedicated to other religions, mythologies, cults, or folklore.
If "we" are appearing to act in a "crass, unintellectual manner", it is
because "we" are appealing to so many "crass, unintellectual" christians
who have *never* given a second thought as to why they should *not* be
christians; "we" are telling them that there are better alternatives to
christianity, and that they should be explored.  "We" are giving
*sound-bites* (ugh) to non-thinking christians, and trying to make them
*think*.  If you find this offensive, that's because it *is* offensive
to christianity, (the best defense ... ; it is a sad fact that too many
christians, and non-christians who have been infected with christianity
are not prone to active thinking;  this is also true of other religions,
but not as evident in the U.S.A.)  The fact that *you*, a non-christian,
find this offensive reflects the extent of christian brainwashing upon
our supposedly non-sectarian society, and underscores the vigour we need
to pursue, to eliminate this evil.  Christians (including our President
Bush) have been offending *thinking* people for far too long, and we
must fight back as hard as we can.

>Just because something is not true does not mean it never causes any
>good to be done.  Believe me, I think religion is more trouble than it
>is worth, but I recognize its virtues.

If christianity *never* caused any good to be done, it almost certainly
would not *still* be around.  I *recognize* the virtue of enforced
frontal labotomies upon every cognizant citizen, but I do not advocate
it, because the *cost* is vastly greater than the reward.  This is also
true of most any religion, not just christianity.  I have yet to hear
otherwise.

Religion is inherently antithetical to progress, and is IMHO, the reason
that too many people are stupid, today.  As little as two hundred years
ago, mobs attacked farmers for putting lightning rods on their houses
and barns; said farmers were illicitly attempting to avoid the "wrath of
god", and god responded by bringing forth droughts (sp?) and famine,
hence the mobs.  (Why do you think churches have steeples and bells?
To appease the gods of course; the fact that god showed his wrath by
killing many bell-ringers with lightning, in a high tower with a big
metal bell obviously means that they weren't ringing the bell enough).
People laugh at that today, but I wonder what they will be laughing at
200 years from now ... (I guess that all depends on who becomes the U.S.
president, now, and 1996, etc., as to whether people will be laughing,
or taking this crap seriously).  FYI, it took unil 1989, (yes, NINETEEN
EIGHTY NINE; thanks Elf!), for the Vatican to *pardon* Galileo, for his
heretical views that the earth revolved around the sun  (unfortunately,
his death sentence could not be commuted).

We "monkeys" (thanks again, Elf!, i think), have had to drag christians
(kicking and screaming all the way), into the twentieth century.
Religion is a poor substitute for a *real* philosophy.  As long as it
exists, we will have war, satanism, occultism, riots, civil unrest,
discrimination, sexism, astrology, psychic hotlines, etc., with
religious leaders shaking their heads and asking, "why is this so? it
*must* be man's sinful nature ... ".

--
Robert Karmolinski	(robert@ucla.cs.edu)
"A false hope is better than none at all; if it were otherwise, I would
have told you so ... " -Jesus, in one of those 396 gospels that were
			burned, along with their authors.
Newsgroups: alt.religion.messianic,alt.atheism,sci.skeptic,talk.origins