HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kcarroll@koko.pathology.washington.edu (Kris Carroll)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Yorkshire Sculpture Park
Date: 26 Jan 1993 00:03:04 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: koko.pathology.washington.edu

I'm passing along this info, emailed to me:

If you should visit Britain, don't miss the Yorkshire Sculpture Park
near Sheffield.  When I was there, they had great exhibitions of
Zimbabwean sculpture & of huge tangled-wire figures/animals.

        -- Ewart (unrepentant Ansel Adams admirer) Shaw
-- 
J.E.H.Shaw,  Department of Statistics,  |  JANET:  strgh@uk.ac.warwick
             University of Warwick,     |  BITNET:  
strgh%uk.ac.warwick.cu@UKACRL
             Coventry  CV4 7AL,  U.K.   |  PHONE:  +44 203 523069
yacc - the piece of code that understandeth all parsing
From: trout@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Re: Why chosen medium? (was Re:  cheaper paint)
Date: 27 Jan 93 11:42:22 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <1jqk2sINNdcn@shelley.u.washington.edu>, kcarroll@koko.pathology.washington.edu (Kris Carroll) writes:
> I have been looking for an old book I picked up at a funky antique store  
> in New York years ago about mixing one's own oils. Can't find it. But the  
> book made it sound inexpensive and a great side study for a painter. My  
> mother's medium is oil, so I've always avoided it.
> 
> Which brings up a question for the working artists in the group - what  
> medium do you prefer and why?

I prefer to use acylic for the underpainting, (because it drys fast), and I
paint over that with oils, usually using a wonderful product called Liquin
which causes oil paint to dry approximately overnight, (depending on how much
one mixes with the oils, if you use alot it can dry within one day). I use this
instead of the traditional medium of turp, damar varnish and linseed oil. 
I use oils because I prefer the richness of color, although I have been fooled
more than once by acrylic that looked to me to be oil, and because I like the
flexibility of the slower drying time, (but not too much slower).
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Re: 23rd C. scholars (was Re: Bandwagon)
Date: 22 Jan 1993 13:22 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Kurt Thearling write...
>Although I wasn't the one who first mentioned Duchamp, I was thinking the
>along similar lines.  I personally think Duchamp is the most important
>artist of this century.  His influence is far reaching.  From Dada and
>Surrealism to Fluxus, Pop Art (e.g., Johns, Rauschenberg, ...), and music
>(e.g., John Cage).  He redefined what art had to be.  Ordinary objects from
>everyday life were assimilated into art, and in some circumstances were
>themselves art.
>- kurt
>ps.  Picasso would be second on my list.

+-------------------------------------SubG------------------------------------+
..which raises some interesting questions, of course, of what constitutes
art, music, u.s.w.

I think that in some respects this falls more under the category of artist-
as-commentator (or artist-as-art-critic) rather than artist-as-creator.  I
suppose this involves some completely subjective judgements of what is of
importance in art, perhaps even more subjective in the visual arts than in
(as in the case of John Cage) the other arts, along with some more objective
criterion.

That is to say, in (for example) a Rene Magritte painting of a pipe with the
caption `Ceci n'est pas une pipe' (_The Air and the Song_ being the prime
example with numerous [that ought to be in italics] other examples) we
can judge it same manner we evaluate Van Gogh's _The Langlois Bridge_
(example chosen because it happens to be on the wall), i.e., composition
u.s.w., but we should more to the point evaluate Magritte with the fact
that there is active information in the painting--Magritte is in the
persona of artist-as-commentator--which is not present in the Van Gogh.
Colloquially, the Van Gogh is pretty but stupid and the Magritte is plain
but intelligent.

And anyone who's made it past the politics of junior high understands where
the majority favour falls.







Yours etc.,




SubGenius
From: kcarroll@koko.pathology.washington.edu (Kris Carroll)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Censorship (was Nut, Egyptian sky goddess)
Date: 27 Jan 93 01:04:07 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: koko.pathology.washington.edu

In article <1993Jan26.095332.28379@klaava.Helsinki.FI>  
amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell) writes:

>I was recently advised that a wooden representation
> I had made of the New Moon (essentially a black disk with a thin 
> silver sliver along one edge) would have to be withdrawn and replaced
> because it runs afoul of a "black list" of objects that it is still 
> forbidden for Jews to carve because these objects were once or 
> are still worshipped as gods somewhere.
 -- 
> Marko Amnell
> amnell@klaava.helsinki.fi

Who advised you? to withdraw it from where? I haven't been following this  
thread, but am interested in this aspect. Has anyone else been pressured  
to withdraw work from an exhibit due to content? I had a fun experience  
with a male nude that drove an entire art faculty off the deep end and  
much to my surprise caused me to cave in (they threatened my scholarship).  
Admittedly the nude pushed the edge a little ala Lucas Samaras and I was a  
mere woman student, but they all went nuts.
From: maverick@mahogany.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Re: Ansel Adams [was Re: A question (Was: Re: Bandwagon)]
Date: 24 Jan 1993 19:25:24 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: mahogany.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1jupb7$p4k@agate.berkeley.edu>, maverick@mahogany.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick) writes:
|> 
|> |> Classical art criticism places things like landscapes
|> |> on a "lower plane" than say portraits or people pictures.
|> 
|> Really?  Which classical criticism?  Seems to me the Dutch
|> landscape painters, Constable, and Ce'zanne's versions of Mont
|> Ste. Victoire are taken very seriously indeed.

Not to mention Caspar David Friedrich, who was definitely a
founding figure of the tradition which led up to the 19th-
century landscape photographers; some of these people,
especially the ones like Carleton Watkins and Timothy
O'Sullivan who went out into the American West, are obvious
antecedents for the most popular work of Adams.

	Vance
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
From: timper@iat.holonet.net (Tim Perkis)
Subject: Re: Crazy Murdering Artists
Organization: HoloNet National Internet Access BBS: 510-704-1058/modem
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:28:47 GMT

mf2w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Marc Kevin Fischer) writes:
: John Rightguard asks
: 
: >Does anybody know of any books about crazy murdering artists? I think my
: >friend would like to know (so would I).
: >I'll keep everybody posted about if he gets his novel published.
:  
There is the book "Naked in the Window" about Carl Andre's trial for
murdering his wife (he was acquitted).

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
	Tim Perkis		timper@holonet.net
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Ansel Adams [was Re: A question (Was: Re: Bandwagon)]
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 02:57:50 GMT

>>>What do other people think of Adams?  To me, he is a distinctly
>>>second-rate photographer.  [...]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.  I was just at the Adams
Gallery in Yosemite Valley looking for a gift to an officemate who
just resigned to raise her kid.

He is one of the people responsible for DEFINING what photography
IS perceived as today.  His subjects tended more to things like landscapes
(however, I have seen Adams people pictures, Adams color, and Adams
Polaroids(tm).)  f/64 was an important defining stage of the art.
Classical art criticism places things like landscapes
on a "lower plane" than say portraits or people pictures.  But then
many of these people (nearly had two as in-laws) also don't regard
photography as an art with a preference to painting as a true art form.

Additionally, Ansel was a great kidder, able to make fun of himself and
his position, one of the great recent conservationists (typically
never seen by the art world), a climber, and had interests in all kinds
of things like computers and astronomy.  I was lucky to have the chance
to meet him a couple of times, just missed a chance of having dinner with
him and Virginia, and some day will climb the peak named in his honor
in Yosemite.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: stribe@intacc.uucp (Shawn Tribe)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Re:  cheaper paint
Date: 21 Jan 93 02:18:46 GMT
Organization: Matrix Artists' Network


Using latex house paints is definitely not a good idea. The paint does not
hold well over time; it not only cracks but can discolour as well (a bit).

Using proper Oils (my preference) or Acrylics would be your best bet. 
Usually a house has to be repainted after 2-5 years, so a painting would
not much too much longer.
From: kcarroll@koko.pathology.washington.edu (Kris Carroll)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Why chosen medium? (was Re:  cheaper paint)
Date: 23 Jan 1993 05:11:56 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: koko.pathology.washington.edu

I have been looking for an old book I picked up at a funky antique store  
in New York years ago about mixing one's own oils. Can't find it. But the  
book made it sound inexpensive and a great side study for a painter. My  
mother's medium is oil, so I've always avoided it.

Which brings up a question for the working artists in the group - what  
medium do you prefer and why?

Photography appeals to my sense of "perfection" since I can always reject  
and trash the less than magic. The downside is, a number of my favorite  
prints and even negatives have been rescued from the trash. (I've ofen  
consider myself emotionally challanged.)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
From: paul@panix.com (Paul Gatker)
Subject: Re: Found a print...
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:27:36 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <1993Jan20.204540.16801@cbfsb.cb.att.com> mvm@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (michael.v.murphy) writes:

>    As the title line says, a came across a print in my parent's basement
>a couple of weeks ago. The print is by Toulise Latrek ( I kwow the spelling
>is wrong, but hope some will recognize the name), it is mounted on a piece
>of pressed board, and is in fair condition. Please respond if you have any
>clue as to the prints worth, as the print layes in a basement that gets water
>damage from time to time. (I don't have the $95 per hour to spend and getting
>a full appraisal). The print has two slightly different centering lines at
>the top and bottom. Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated...

>							M Murphy
>							mvmurphy@attmail.att.com

 If you're near a Sotheby's, or will be in the future, bring it with you. They
will have an expert give you an _unwritten_ appraisal of the items worth for
no charge.

 If it's an original I'm sure they'd be glad to sell it for you.


-- 
*******************************************************************
paul@panix.com                                    COMPULITE GRAPHICS
Brooklyn NY usa                                Design & Consultation
********************************************************************
From: maverick@mahogany.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Re: Ansel Adams [was Re: A question (Was: Re: Bandwagon)]
Date: 24 Jan 1993 19:06:15 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: mahogany.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan23.025750.16679@nas.nasa.gov>, eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
|> >>>What do other people think of Adams?  To me, he is a distinctly
|> >>>second-rate photographer.  [...]
|> 
|> You are certainly entitled to your opinion. [...]
|> 
|> He is one of the people responsible for DEFINING what photography
|> IS perceived as today.

Well, J.C. Bach was partly responsible for defining the
possibilities of post-Baroque music, yet many people like
Haydn and Mozart better.

|> f/64 was an important defining stage of the art.

Wasn't this a group of photographers?  My memory is vague.

|> Classical art criticism places things like landscapes
|> on a "lower plane" than say portraits or people pictures.

Really?  Which classical criticism?  Seems to me the Dutch
landscape painters, Constable, and Ce'zanne's versions of Mont
Ste. Victoire are taken very seriously indeed.

|> Additionally, Ansel was a great kidder, able to make fun of himself and
|> his position, one of the great recent conservationists (typically
|> never seen by the art world), a climber, and had interests in all kinds
|> of things like computers and astronomy.  I was lucky to have the chance
|> to meet him a couple of times, just missed a chance of having dinner with
|> him and Virginia, and some day will climb the peak named in his honor
|> in Yosemite.

I was talking about his photography.

	Vance
From: bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Re: Wildlife art (was ANSEL ADAMS)
Date: 26 Jan 1993 11:51:17 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Western art as in Charles M. Russell or Albert Bierstadt or
George Catlin or Karl Bodmer....
Confused you, no?
-- 
Ted....
From: kcarroll@koko.pathology.washington.edu (Kris Carroll)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Zone response
Date: 28 Jan 1993 00:46:07 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: koko.pathology.washington.edu

In article <1993Jan27.231851.1424@pmafire.inel.gov> geoff@pmafire.inel.gov  
(Geoff Allen) writes:
 No.  He sought the goal of making the print that he envisioned (which he
> called pre-visualization -- having the final photograph in mind when
> making the exposure).  The print starts with the negative.  So, one
> would like to make a negative which will provide the easiest time of
> making the desired print.

a control freak by any other name....


> (He was planning to be a
> classical pianist before photography diverted his course.)

other way around, he turned to photog because he had to abandon his piano   
career - injury or something I don't remember.


> 
> You speak rather condescendingly of the idea of measuring the light
> values of the photographic subject.  Why? 

the trap is obvious, those lacking talent turn to technique. And having  
read the rest of your post, I need to add Adam's is not to "blame" for any  
of this. He did his own work just fine. But the art schools and many  
photographers who adopted the dogma did turn it into a dreary bore. I also  
believe art is a bit more intuitive and it is foolish to think technical  
tricks will turn you into a good artist. Learn it, internalize it and use  
it intuitivly, but not anally.  And there are plenty of anal technicians  
around.
From: bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Wildlife art (was ANSEL ADAMS)
Date: 24 Jan 1993 13:44:05 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


  Having humped wooden 8x10 (and above) view cameras for nature/
landscape photographers around west Texas , Mexico and New Mexico
I truly appreciate the effort involved in producing these images.
  On another note, my wife (the museum exhibits person) has
run up against bias against all wildlife art amongst the "art"
types. It seems that unless the artist is depicting something
"tenuously serious"  many gallery types cringe when confronted
with "critter pictures".
  I'll admit that a lot of it is fairly schlocky, but a sub-
stantial portion is truly "fine art".
  Now I'll throw out the gauntlet of "Western Art". Let's see
what happens.....
   hasta siempre...
-- 
Ted....
From: corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley )
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Re: Zone System {Re: Ansel Adams,etc.}
Date: 26 Jan 93 02:37:15 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson

In article <1k1vv4INNnjj@shelley.u.washington.edu> kcarroll@koko.pathology.washington.edu (Kris Carroll) writes:
>I think E. Weston, Paul Strand, Minor White, I. Cunningham, T. Modotti and  
>several others produced work far more lasting and innovative than Adams.  
>He was more the darling of the amature photo guilds than the art circle,  
>though Bret Weston, a mere technician IMHO, was an admirer. Certain images  
>do stand the test of time and aestetic criterion, but Adam's focus always  
>seemed his technical studies - the 5 "Basic Photo Books"  and his damned  
>zone system.
>
>kristine carroll 

What is the damned zone system?  Why is it damned?  Enlighten a poor,
culture-illiterate scientist...
;-)

--
*******************************************************************************
"Keep an eye on the species below us...because you never know who may be next."
	----Bertha's Save The Cat Committee (Garrison Keillor)
Jason D. "corleyj@gas.uug.arizona.edu" Corley, Poet, Polymath, Scoundrel.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Sherri)
Subject: Re: Why chosen medium? (was Re:  cheaper paint)
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 01:00:00 GMT

Well, I don't know how common my primary medium is among users of
this group, but perhaps someone will have some ideas for me.  I mainly
work with masks of my own face, done with plaster bandages (the ones
that are used to make casts with, specifically I use 'Carapace Extra-Fast'--
there really is quite a lot of variation between brands).  I paint
them, and I am curious about what sorts of paints are best.  I would
gather from the recent discussions that my choice would be
somewhat broader than the choices for canvas since plaster is less flexible
Is this a correct way to view it, melynda?  (or anyone else, but I
was referring to her very helpful explanation).  Working with plaster
has made me more interested in frescoes (something that always appealed
to me), but doing this with a mask has problems since it will either dry
too quickly for a fairly slow painter like me to finish while moist, or
it will take a long time for me to be able to take it off my face.  There
are probably other possibilities, though, particularly if I'm willing to have
a thicker mask than I generally like.

My main questions are about plaster though.  I wonder how long these masks
will last, first of all, and how to best preserve them.  Anyone know how
Segal's works are preserved, or what conditions are important to keep
them in top condition?  I generally gesso the masks inside and out before
painting in order to make it stronger and to smooth the surface somewhat.
I have wanted to try adding additional plaster paste to the masks before 
complete drying in order to make them smoother, but a friend who tried this
said the plaster tended to get lots of cracks in the surface.  Does anyone
know how to prevent this or know of something better to use than plaster
or gesso to smooth, strengthen, and preserve?  I have also been told
that besides getting a slower setting plaster, I can control the drying
time by using cold water and/or adding vinegar.  Would vinegar be likely
to weaken the plaster?

I like this medium for a number of reasons.  One of the main ones is that
masks of all sorts are interesting to me.  I plan to do masks in other
media, perhaps papier-maiche and clay-mud, that will experiment with
varying degrees of flatness and roundness.  I've recently been looking
at Marija Gimbutas book _The Goddesses and Gods of Old Europe_ and
have found some pictures in there that really intrigue me.  I am lately
seeing faces in a very different way, the component shapes of a face
are very different if you are drawing light and shadow or even contours
than they are if you are looking almost solely at height and depth.

Anyway, sorry this is so long, if anyone has ideas or would like me
to post or email an explanation of how to make these masks, let me know..

Sherri
From: maverick@fir.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
Subject: Re: Jenny Holzer
Date: 27 Jan 1993 19:34:20 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: fir.cs.berkeley.edu

Your best bet is probably the university library.  Searching the
library system here at the University of California, I found
13 items published by university presses, art galleries, etc.,
such as

Author:        Holzer, Jenny.
Title:         Truisms and essays / Jenny Holzer. Halifax, N.S. : Press of the
                 Nova Scotia College of Art and Design, c1983.
Description:   [155] p. ; 22 cm.

Series:        Nova Scotia pamphlets ; 3.

Notes:         Text in English, French, German, and Spanish.
               Title from spine.
               On cover: Abuse of power comes as no surprise.
               Loose sheet in back.

Subjects:      Holzer, Jenny.
               Artists' books -- Canada.

and only one bona fide mainstream publication:

Author:        Waldman, Diane.
Title:         Jenny Holzer / Diane Waldman. New York : Solomon R. Guggenheim
                 Museum : H.N. Abrams, c1989.
Description:   116 p. : ill. (some col.) ; 26 x 28 cm.

Notes:         Catalog of an exhibition.
               Includes bibliographical references (p. 113-114).

Subjects:      Holzer, Jenny, 1950- -- Exhibitions.

It's conceivable copies of this:

Author:        Holzer, Jenny, 1950-
Title:         Jenny Holzer : signs. Rev. ed. London : Institute of
                 Contemporary Arts, [1988].
Description:   103 p. : ill. (some col.) ; 22 cm.

Notes:         Catalogue of an exhibition 7 December 1988-12 February 1989.
               " Originally published by the Des Moines Art Center, Iowa, USA
                 in 1986."
               Includes interview with Bruce Ferguson and essay by Joan Simon.
               Includes index.
               Bibliography: p. 95-100.

are still to be found, maybe directly through the Institute of
Contemporary Arts.

Good luck,
	Vance
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine
From: stribe@intacc.uucp (Shawn Tribe)
Subject: Re:  23rd C. scholars (was Re: Bandwagon)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 21:07:35 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Matrix Artists' Network


Kurt Thearling wrote..

>ps. Picasso would be second on my list...

WHAT?! I do of course respect your opinion, but let me try and argue this
point..
 
Duchamp's work existed because of Picasso.. Picasso was on of the very first
artists to start looking at things in a much different way. As I have stated
before, the invention of Cubism effected every artist from that point on.
 
Duchamp's work is riddled with cubist influences (as is quite evident in his
most famous piece "Nude descending a Staircase no.2". When you consider how
many people Picasso effected with his work, the monumental steps he took, I
can see no else being above him. (IMHO)