HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jwa@vipunen.hut.fi (Jyrki J Wahlstedt)
Subject: Re: Korngold
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
	<1992Sep2.180017.15220@spang.Camosun.BC.CA>
Date: 3 Sep 92 02:06:51

In article <1992Sep2.180017.15220@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:

>It depends what you mean by 'second rate'. I, for instance, consider
>R. Strauss a second rate composer (as he did himself). The symphony is
>interesting, but very outdated for its time (written 1946-7), and
>hardly in the same league as, for example, Mahler. A prodigy who
>failed to live up to his prodigiosity (as it were). He wroted damned
>good film music, and maybe he actually did find his forte in
>Hollywood.

  This is off the point (Korngold), but couldn't resist: I think that a
  second rate composer (was he serious? I have not seen this statement in
  its context) could possibly have written music like Metamorphosen.
  I admit that it is outdated etc., but I do not know any piece of music
  more beautiful. And I think it is of no consequence to the value of a
  composition how uptodate or outdated it is. Too many people tend to
  esteem highly those seen as modern or pioneers, so outdated is (here too)
  used pejoratively (sorry if I misunderstood).

  Just came to my mind that Mahler composed only on vacations. Can he
  then be first rate composer?
--
!
!	Jyrki Wahlstedt
!		Jyrki.Wahlstedt@hut.fi
!
!  Our life is no dream, but it should and will perhaps become one.
!
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: smitra@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Samindranath Mitra)
Subject: Re: Supertitling
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 02:29:27 GMT

Most of the critics of supertitling seem to come from
among those that already know the various operas rather well.
For such folks the only way to go would be without translation
as well. In the present day most people listen to operas more
than see them staged. Not too many translated recordings exist.
Repeated listening in the original language would certainly
turn one off the incongruent results that most translations
turn into. In fact, if you listen to any much-listened opera in
an English version and go and listen to a *genuine* English
opera, "Peter Grimes" comes to mind instantly, you tend
to wonder how much you have missed out on. There are indeed
very few exceptions. I can only think Andrew Porter's
translation of the Ring.
	Here at Indiana University, the Opera 
School productions are sometimes in an English version.
If I don't sit in the first 7 rows I can't figure out
the words. I'd rather not follow the words in the original
language than not follow them in English! And since no one,
even here, a place where a sizable chunk of the audience is
informed, laughs at the right places if there are no 
supertitles (operas not staged in English always come with
supertitles) I figure they could use some. 
	Incidentally, more often than not, it is the
blockbuster operas that come with supertitles. Among
last years productions Carmen and Rigoletto were 
staged in the original languages. With supertitles. The
IU music school seems too think that if you "know"
the opera you'll want supertitles.


				Sami 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rchrd@netcom.com (Richard Friedman)
Subject: Re: There's a Place in France
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 92 20:59:19 GMT
Organization: Applied Parallel Rsrch (Berkeley)

bryan@netcom.com (Bryan Higgins) writes:

>There's a tune to which is often sung the words "there's a place in France
>where the ladies wear no pants" etc.  Can anyone identify the origin of the
>tune?
>-- 
No, I don;t know the name either, but CHarles Ives uses it
alot.  Listen to  Scherzo: Holding Your Own
its on the Kronos White Man Sleeps recording.

You should also try to find out all the alternative
lyrics.  Its probably so old that it can be traced
back to some cave.
-- 
/\=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/\
\/Richard Friedman (510)528-7055  |  rchrd@netcom.com    
/\Applied Parallel Rsch (Berkeley)|                          /\
\/=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\/
From: egras@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: operas in Cleveland
Date: 27 Aug 92 17:12:21 EDT



	I was hoping that someone could tell me what operas are going to
be performed in Cleveland this coming season.  I'd also appreciate the
corresponding dates.

Thank you,

BrianE
From: chrism@persoft.com (Chris Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: records-database
Date: 1 Sep 92 14:18:52 GMT
Organization: Persoft, Inc.

In article <TML.92Sep1090023@tiuhti.tik.vtt.fi> tml@tik.vtt.fi (Tor Lillqvist) writes:
>More difficult questions about recording databases:
>
>What's the name of a piece or a recording? Classical pieces and
>recordings especially often don't have a definite, explicit name like
>most rock or popular songs/recordings.
>
>An example: DG 431 813-2, "Matt Haimowitz plays Suites and Sonatas for
>Solo Cello". Is that the title? Or is it "Suites and ..." and M.H. the
>performer? Or should one simply use verbatim the text that appears in
>the CD "spine" or front as its title?
>
>Should the names of pieces be in the composer's native language? Or in
>English because "everybody knows English" (even if neither the
>composer nor the performer were English-speaking?) Or in the language
>of the record company, as it appears on the disc? Should "generic"
>names like "<instrument> <n-tet> #n" not be in text form at all, but
>some kind of tuple (instrument-class, #-of-players, number)?
>--
>Tor Lillqvist,
>working, but not speaking, for the Technical Research Centre of Finland

I would strongly recommend following the standards for bibliographic (or,
in this case, discographic) entries found in a standard reference such as
Turabian or the Chicago Manual of Style or the MLA Style Guide. The thing
to remember when doing this is that the point of an entry is to make it
easy (or possible) to find the item in question. The entry is actually a
compressed reproduction of the information on the title page (of a book or
score) or the cover of an album or CD. Save cross-referencing for indexes
and such; reproduce the information on the title or cover for the main
entry.

-- 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Miller
Persoft, Inc.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: inr@eccles.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid)
Subject: re: Last Night of the Proms/words
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 08:38:00 GMT

From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)

>>> William Blake / Parry : Jerusalem
>>> 
>>The poem, which is likely to be in something like the Oxford Book of English
>>Verse, starts:
>>
>>And did those feet in ancient time,
>>Walk upon England's mountains green?
>And was the hol lamb of God
>In England's pleasant pastures seen? etc etc etc

>Hardly your tub-thumping jingoistic tosh..

>England's second national anthem - should be the first if you ask me.

>Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.

 England doesn't have any national anthems - having got all they wanted,
they decided to give up nationalism

 Neill Reid    inr@eccles.caltech.edu

 (a native of one of the bits left in the hands of unfriendly powers)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Subject: Re: Winterreise
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 03:39:48 GMT

steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:
: ... anybody know of any switcheroo recordings?

Melba accompanied some young Australian talent on the piano - John
Amadio playing "By the brook" by Lemmone from memory. I also have a 78
of her accompanying a cellist.
From: MATGBB@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU (BYRNES,Graham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: CD shops in London/Paris
Date: 27 Aug 92 07:11:44 GMT
Organization: La Trobe University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.22

Hi there.
In two days I'm heading to Belgium for a conference. En route, I'd like
to do some browsing on fields more exotic than those imported to Australia.
I have 12 hrs in London on Sunday, during which I have to get from Heathrow
to Gatwick. The following Saturday I have free in Paris.
  Any suggestions for CD shops to be visited in these two cities?
Thanks,
Graham Byrnes
PS I know Paris pretty well, London much less, so a hint on location would
be appreciated.. Thanks again.
From: amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Bottom ten operas
Date: 31 Aug 92 07:37:09 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at Austin

Kiran Wagle writes:
> How about the No Musical Merit Whatsoever standard:
> All of Puccini except Turandot

What?!?  Oh, no.  I can't agree.  Perhaps I should be a more exacting
critic, with all my years of music school training, but anything that
invariably stirs me to singing (as does _La Boheme_) has oodles of
Musical Merit -- whatever *that* is supposed to mean.

Is it not cool to love _Boheme_ so dearly?  Should there be a _Boheme_
recovery group?  _Boheme_ survivors, maybe?  "Hello, my name is Susan
K., and I love _La Boheme_.  I get goose bumps every time Rodolfo
touches Mimi's hand in that dark little garrett.  I'm on the edge of
my seat during 'Addio, senza rancor.'  And I practically have to be
helped out of the theatre at the end, because I've tired myself out by
sobbing so quietly when I wanted to bawl.  I love _Boheme_.  Is that
so terrible?"

Seriously, I have noticed an attitude among some so-called "serious
musicians" of "Oh, it's just Puccini; what kitsch [or whatever the
Italian word for kitsch might be]."  Anybody have any idea why?  (No
fair saying "Because it's kitsch.")

Just someone who's foolish enough to think that a muff might save a
life...  :)

-- 
-----Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik-------------------------------*<:-)-------------
"Queens never make bargains."  -- The Red Queen, _Through the Looking Glass_
-----amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu--------------The University of Texas @Austin---
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025))
Subject: Re: Korngold
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 23:04:42 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.155335.16991@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie) writes...
>I have heard that Korngold was a child prodigy acclaimed by Strauss, Mahler
>and Schoenberg. I know he worked for Hollywood after being forced to flee
>from the Nazis, but did he ever realize his potential with 'serious' music.
>I have heard his violin concerto but nothing else. There are some recordings
>of orchestral music out there (eg. symphony, sinfonietta) and also some
>chamber works and operas (Die Tote Stadt). Are any of these of interest
>or are they second rate works?
> 
I really like Die Tote Stadt.  It is well worth investing in, the music
is what you would get if you could produce a R. Strauss/Puccini cross
to my ears, and it has a great story too.  He was only 20-21 when he wrote
it, so it makes one wonder what if...

I only know of the recording with Kollo/Neblett/Leinsdorf on RCA.  Maybe 
by now there are others. 


Ron
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: schissel@mace.Princeton.EDU (Eric Schissel)
Subject: Re: Lyric Opera Schedule (was: proposal to this list)
Organization: Cornell University
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 17:14:29 GMT

Hm- there's nothing by Sessions, Berg, Schoenberg or Dallapiccola
on that schedule (or by Brian, either)- and some Tippett would be
nice.  Still, i suppose there's about as much chance of getting
something British (Brian, Tippett) staged here (Byzantium aside-
though thanks for that, whoever's responsible) in the U.S. as there
is of getting Sessions- or Brian- opera staged in Britain.

Well, tomorrow's another day.  Has anyone heard of any projected
stagings of Schoenberg's Von Heute Auf Morgen?  (Hopefully by that
time i'll have funds to buy a ticket- unlike now).
Thanks!

Please respond by email to schissel@math.cornell.edu.  They finally
figured out that i'm no longer at Princeton and close my account
here (and my ability to read news) on the 11th September.
Thanks!
From: ca_ac@gsbacd.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Bottom ten operas
Date: 29 Aug 92 21:46:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: gsbacd.1992Aug29.154648.1

In article <kiran.715080111@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>, kiran@bronze.ucs.indiana.
edu (Kiran Wagle) writes:
> How about the No Musical Merit Whatsoever standard:
> 
> Cav & Pag (Cavalleria Rusticana & I Pagliacci)

Why do you think that these have no musical merit?

> All of Puccini except Turandot
> 
> -- 
> Kiran Wagle     <kiran@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>     (812) 335-0420

Surely you jest! I suggest you listen closely to La Boheme, Tosca, Madama
Butterfly, La Fanciulla del West, Il Tabarro etc. before you make such an
assertion.

						Alak Chakravorty
From: darkmage@toz.buffalo.ny.us (Dark Mage)
Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
Subject: 5892 setlist
Date: 29 Aug 92 04:09:46 GMT
Organization: The Tower of Zot - (716)691-3865

the setlist for buffalo 5-8-92 was...
the curtain
caverns
reba
uncle penn
it's ice
eliza
llama

mound, all things reconsidered, bouncing, david bowie, memories

2: wilson, my sweet one, stash, magilla, maze, You enjoy myself, silent
in the morning, chalkdust torture, cold as ice->terrapin, Harry the Hood,
Golgi apparatus, BBFCFM


Happy! Happy! Joy! Joy!
Set the gearshift for the high gear of your soul
DM
Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
From: ericbi@microsoft.com (Eric Bidstrup)
Subject: Does anyone know... 
Date: 01 Sep 92 17:28:39 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Summary: Taping policy:Spin Doctors & Widespread Panic

Anyone know what Spin Doctors & Widespread Panic policy is
on audience taping?

soory, no phish content....
-Eric Bidstrup
ericbi@microsoft.com


Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
From: kalang@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (kenneth.lang)
Subject: Vacuum Cleaner noises
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:52:11 GMT

I bought the re-release of Lawn Boy and love it. I had most of these songs
on a live tape, I copied from a friend, but its good to hear how they
use the "magic" of the studio. ANYWAY, I see on the liner notes that
Jon Fishman is credited with "vacuum" and from reading this group I know
he plays it on stage. In what songs on this album is this strange instrument
used ? The only guess I can make are those weird background noises in
"Bathtub Gin". 

One other thing -- I've heard that Phish has another CD available but only
through mail order. Does their record company plan to release this too ?
[ I already have Picture of Nectar, that's not the one I mean. ]

Thanks in advance.


-- 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
**    Ken Lang                                              AT&T          *
*"The dust blows forward and the dust blows back on the toads of the      *
* short forest and every newt in Idaho."- A sampling of Don Van Vliet & FZ*
From: Jennifer.L.Bishko@dartmouth.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
Subject: Personal to Alex Jones
Date: 2 Sep 92 02:05:58 GMT
Reply-To: Jennifer.L.Bishko@dartmouth.edu
Organization: The Internet

Sorry for the personal note everyone!  I can't contact this person at a
private address....

Hey Alex-
I'm going to be in London in the fall and won't have access to e-mail, so
please mail me your MAILING address so I can drop you a note from there.  I
don't know my address in London, so just send your address to my following
address and it will get forwarded to me wherever I end up:
Jennifer Bishko
HB 1584
Dartmouth College
Hanover, NH 03755

Hope you had a great summer!
Jen  :-)
From: jon@troi.cc.rochester.edu (JD)
Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
Subject: Setlist for Buffalo 5-8-92?
Summary: I'm looking for the setlist from the 5-8-92 show in Buffalo, NY.
Keywords: buffalo riviera theater 5-8-92
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:51:48 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

Could some kind soul out there provide me with the setlist from this
summer's Buffalo show?  The date was 5-8-92, at the Riviera Theater.

Thanx much.

-JD
                               
------------------------------------|\----o------------------------------------
Jonathan Dick                      |  \    o            University of Rochester
jon@cc.rochester.edu           |\ /    .\ o                       Rochester, NY
----------------------------   | |       (   ----------------------------------
                               |/ \     /  
                                   |  /
                                    |/
  
Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
From: SCF8747@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu
Subject: Re: Phish Digest #472
Reply-To: SCF8747@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 23:26:25 GMT

well folks I know that this is comming a bit late but I just thought that 
the Phish set at the end of the HORDE concert at Jones Beach just wasn't 
that good. It thought it sad that their set was cut short and to be honest 
I thought that their kind of sound just didn't fit the kind of set up they 
had at that theater. There was just too much distortion in the big speakers 
to really appreciate the intricacy of their sound. They really only sound 
well at this point in the small clubs they play at. If they got a better pa 
system that brought down the distortion they would sound better at open 
concert like that. At well I thought that they just were too hot that 
night. Page was especially not up to usual par. 

Oh well...still one of the best bands in this nation and probably the 
world.... speaking of which did anyone go to the Europe shows or did they 
not go yet? Anyone who went...give a lowdown through email if it was 
already discussed here on the net....


well I am sure that some of you are just getting back. A good year to all 
of you and see you around the net and the shows!

Zonk.

Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
From: Cassidy Curtis <herc.xaos.com!cjc@mofo.net.netcom.com>
Subject: Weekaparg Groove
Reply-To: herc.xaos.com!cjc@mofo.net.netcom.com
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 04:09:27 GMT


Weekaparg is the name of a place in Rhode Island, I think it's an
American Indian name, and that is how it's spelled.

	-Cassidy

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cassidy Curtis		What does this mean? WHAT DOES THIS ME-E-EAN?
cjc@xaos.com		What is the meaning of this? -Captain Beefheart
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
From: AFOSTER@cmcvx1.claremont.edu
Subject: Warfield or Stanford tapes???
Reply-To: AFOSTER@cmcvx1.claremont.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 22:20:46 GMT

Hi there.   I've been gone all summer, and don't know if I've missed any
tape trees, but I really want to find copies of the Warfield and/or
Stanford shows, if anyone has them.  I can trade tapes, or just send you 
some.  Can anyone help me out?
					-Andrew
From: v132hpne@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
Subject: 4/19/91 second grovel
Date: 31 Aug 92 02:06:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


  Doesn't anyone have a copy of this tape?  Please...
It was my 21st birthday and it would be really nice to
listen to what I missed when Phish was playing at
Nietzche's in downtown Buffalo and I didn't even go (Arghhh!)
Plenty to trade for it :-)

Tony Brown
From: rafael@cats.ucsc.edu (David Konerding)
Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
Subject: Re: Santana/Phish, Shoreline, 8/29/92
Date: 30 Aug 1992 20:45:40 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


In article <Btt7yL.IJ6@well.sf.ca.us> dang@well.sf.ca.us (Daniel) writes:
>
>Phish's set was amazing, although no amount of discussion about the
>length of their set could prepare me for the shock of them walking
>off stage after only 45 minutes or so.  Still, I'm happy I went and
>only wish I could be in Sacramento for tonight's show.
>
	Maybe in ten years we'll be treated to Santana opening for Phish.  I
went, of course, to see Phish (Santana's great, but I was born after he was in
his prime) and felt dejected as soon as Phish left the stage.  I'm only
glad I was treated to the San Juan Cap show two weeks before.

>As expected, all four of the boys joined Santana on stage, and
>there were points when I couldn't tell who was taking the leads --
>Carlos or Trey.  
	Did you notice the crowd's reaction during YEM when Phish broke
into (I think) Black Magic Woman sounding EXACTLY like Santana does it?
That made my night... I bet everybody who couldn't see the stage thought
Santana had started playing :-)

Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
From: dsteinbe@nmsu.edu
Subject: The Las Cruces Show
Reply-To: dsteinbe@nmsu.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 22:31:54 GMT

        Greetings from southern New Mexico.  I am just starting grad school here at NMSU; I came from Bard College which is very much a Phish outpost.  New Mexico State is not quite the same. The crowd for the show was well o
Santana (It was mostly Hispanic.)  In fact I figured that I had seen more shows
than the rest of the audience combined...

        Phish's set was hot.  It went Golgi, Foam, Stash!, Squirming Coil->
David Bowie, Sweet Adeline.  The jam between Coil and Bowie was extremely loud
.  During the Bowie, by the way, Trey played the fall down riff.
      Unlike the other Phish/Santana show I saw (Merriwether), the band came
out during Santana's set.  Trey, Page, & Mike played for about 20-30 minutes,
and Fish even took a lengthy vacuum solo.  The crowd, which seemed bored
during Phish's set, enjoyed the jam a lot more.
      One unrelated point, someone mentioned that an Antelope (Santa Cruz show?
) was the best (s)he heard...  Let me recommend 3/13/92 Providence.  Best show
I ever saw & the Antelope->BBFCFM->Vocal Jam->Antelope->Creature->Antelope
was the highlight.
                                Have Fun
                                David "ZZYZX" Steinberg
P.S. See y'all at New Year's...
Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
From: dang@well.sf.ca.us (Daniel)
Subject: Shoreline Show Time Changed to 7:30
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Distribution: us
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 05:29:01 GMT


Hey, y'all,

I learned from BGP this morning that Phish will be going on stage at 7:30,
and not at 8:00 as the ticket suggests.  I'm looking forward to being there,
and hoping that I'll meet some of you.

Peace, love and joy to all.

Dan
Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
From: Harry McQuillen <bluefox@well.sf.ca.us>
Subject: Video
Reply-To: bluefox@well.sf.ca.us
Organization: The Internet
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 23:13:14 GMT


I'm just wondering about the current situation on Phish Video.

Audience- I know they allow/encourage audio taping, but is it allowed/reccomended
to tape audience video?

Professional Video- Any way we can get that video from Shoreline and maybe new
years 90, (I KNOW they don't want to release it because it was a medicore show, but
maybe we could tree it or vine it on the phishnet)

And if anyone has any Phish Videos, drop me an email.

Harry
From: MEG94@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Subject: Hypnotic in Roch.
Reply-To: MEG94@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:43:08 GMT

This Friday:  Hypnotic Clambake is performing in
          Rochester, NY at the Horizontal Boogie Bar
                       (North Water Street)
         they are opening for the Horseflies.
         
                                   Takin' a stand for the Ants,
                                             Michael G.
                                                Geneseo