HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jcollier@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU (John Donald Collier)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: The ungrateful dead (grass doesn't kill)
Date: 16 Dec 1992 19:46:55 +1100
Organization: University of Melbourne
NNTP-Posting-Host: ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au

linden@positive.Eng.Sun.COM (Peter van der Linden) writes:

>In what sense is a death by over-eating "due to" marijuana?  It looks like
>(if you're reporting it accurately) the Royal Commission has a definition
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That is relatively easy to check. Many libraries have the report.

>of proximate cause that differs from that in use in the rest of the world.

The same way as a person who dies of internal bleeding after
being hit by a car was caused to die by being hit by a car.
I don't know the details of the case reported, but the Le Dain
commission was very reliable. I expect that the person would
not have eaten so much had they not been stoned. That is 
a pretty normal sense of "due to".

A similar sense would be an automobile acident death of a person
who had drunk too much alcohol -- the death would have been due
to over-drinking. 

I think it is you that has a definition of "due to" that is peculiar.
If you want to argue the details, I suggest you read Part Three
of Ron Giere's _Understanding Scientific Reasoning_ first to get
you up to speed. It is elementary, and I used to teach it. It leaves 
some room for you to argue your position.

Incidentally, the point of the case, both for Le Dain and myself,
is that the idea of marijuana causing death borders on the comic, 
even when the results are tragic.

-- 
John Collier 			Email: jcollier@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au
HPS -- U. of Melbourne		  	Fax:   +61 3 344 7959
Parkville, Victoria, AUSTRALIA 3052
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,alt.folklore.urban
From: bowman@reed.edu (Mr. Stress Tensor)
Subject: Re: UL: Monumental LSD overdose taken (was: Re: Brands of LSD)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:34:06 GMT

In article <BzAr0B.4Jy@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> (null pointer)@symphony.cc.purdue.edu (Dartanyan the Witchling) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.194426.11977@reed.edu> bowman@reed.edu (BoBoRamDos) writes:
>>>	c) are there not makers or distributers who just MIGHT affix strychnine
>>>to blotter along with acid JUST BECAUSE of believing that somehow this would
>>>make the trip from THEIR ACID more "individual"?

>>No.  People who are smart enough to make LSD are smart enough to know about
>>The Strychnine Universe (tm).

>	But people who SELL it aren't.  ANd distributers often do things that
>are not all that smart, like the making of "wicci stix" by dipping a joint
>in formaldehyde. (yes this IS done, since I kew a few people out to make a
>quick buck who tried it.  I didn't smoke any out of paranoia, mostly.)
>	I said makers OR distributers, and I can see some brain-fried dealer
>deciding he wants to make the sheet he just bought speedier, so people
>like "his" acid better.

So, some "brain-fried" dealer is going to go out and spend extra money on 
something to add to his acid to make it speedier?  Sure, it's difficult to
overestimate the stupidity of the brain-fried, but this seem very, very unlikely
to me.  Everyone I've ever met who liked acid definitely *did not* prefer
"speedier" acid.

>	Which would make for strychnine-containing LSD.  In this case it's a 
>matter of human behaviour, not chemistry, but it is possible.
>	Not that that strychnine would make ANY difference, but it COULD be 
>there.  It is not "impossible" and actually, due to this, has SOME likelihood.

Of course it's possible.  Everything's possible; in fact just about everything
you all discuss over there on a.f.u is possible.  However, most of them are
highly, highly unlikely, and in the case of strychnine in LSD, EVERY SINGLE
STUDY we've been able to find (please refer to the a.d FAQ) indicates that
strychnine in LSD simply DOES NOT HAPPEN.  Sure, maybe once or twice it has
happened for whatever reason, but with those odds, it's rather like saying
Tylenol has cyanide in it "for flavor".

cheers,
bobo              In seeking the unattainable,
bowman@reed.edu            simplicity only gets in the way.
Ask not what's inside your head but what your head's inside of. - W. Mace
From: mtymp15@staff.tc.umn.edu (David Hutton)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Subject: Scientific experiment (red eyes)
Date: 20 Dec 92 22:10:15 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota

I have very* sensitive eyes which get VERY red whenever I... smoke.  I have   
used eye drops, but they tend to irritate my eyes over the long run... so I'm
going to try this experiment and thought I'd share:

I will put air-tight goggles over my eyes before the "session" and then smoke
my usual amount.  This way, no smoke will make contact with the surface of my
eyes.  Then I will keep the goggles on (and look silly) and go air myself out
to insure that there is no smoke hanging around to irritate.

When I take off the goggles and start to relax, we will see if this helps my
situation any.

Has anyone else ever tried anything like this?


-- 
"Peace of mind produces right values, right values produce right thoughts.
Right thoughts produce right actions and right actions produce work which will
be a material reflection for others to see of the serentity at the center of it
all." - Robert M. Pirsig  "Ride the surf of the sea of neuron activity." - Me
From: mccoy39@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Subject: DMT Vit C MDMA laws and a ?
Date: 15 Dec 92 05:07:54 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania



As for DMT, I have talked to people who have used it, as well as
read accounts of its use, and the trip lasts from half an hour
to an hour in most cases.

In Medline there are studies showing that Vitamin C is better
than placebo in treating emergency-room PCP freakouts.  Haloperidol
(HALDOL) works better than Vitamin C, but the two can be used
together.  

My guess about the enhanced LSD effects with Vitamin C is that
many frequent trippers are also smokers, and are probably in need
of some extra Vitamin C anyway.  The same could be said for people
experiencing bad reactions too, although I am sure that much of
this is placebo effect.  That *something* is being done helps calm
the tripper.

Now, as for the legality of hallucinogens, they aren't.  Our all-knowing
government has given us a Designer Drug Act, which makes any substance
having properties similar to a controlled substance a controlled 
substance.  The law was designed to keep chemical analogs of no-no
drugs like speed and heroin off the market.  Thus you can't make a 
legal version of Adam or X or DMT or anything else.  The same applies
to plants.  Perhaps the authorities aren't looking for the exotic stuff,
but you can still get busted for it.

About the toxicity of MDMA, I know many people who have taken a lot,
and they seem as normal as any other heavy drug users.  However, unlike
LSD it is clear that you can really screw yourself by overdosing.
The theraputic dose is only about half the toxic dose, and it is likely
that taking ten or twenty hits would kill you.  Granted, I don't know of
any people actually taking big doses, but it is not a good idea.  If
one were to take a dose, then decide nothing is happening and take two
more, the results could be very bad.  Psychologically safe, but not really
a safe drug compared with LSD or mj. 

As an aside, if you know sources abroad for L-tryptophan please let me
know.  I can get it into the US legally, but I don't know who sells it.

Email mccoy39@wharton.upenn.edu, or post.  Thanks.

Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: lw24lag@rs1.tcs.tulane.edu (peter lavallee)
Subject: Questions on MDMA (XTC) 
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-7725]: rs1.tcs.tulane.edu
Organization: Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:27:22 GMT


Hi folks.  Having referred to several reputable drug manuals,
my roommates and I can find no reference to the alleged side
effect of MDMA -- that is that it drains fluid from the spine.

I can't keep up with the traffic here, so an e-mail reply would
be greatly appreciated.  (Keep it sensible: if you're reading 
this a week after the posting, please don't add to my overloaded
mailbox.)

Sorry if this is a FAQ and thanks,

pjl

--
Peter J. Lavallee		: "Live free or die."
lw24lag@rs1.tcs.tulane.edu	:          -- Major Gen. John Stark
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,alt.folklore.urban
From: mch6@ellis.uchicago.edu (Huitzilopochtli)
Subject: Re: The ungrateful dead (grass doesn't kill)
Reply-To: mch6@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 02:30:25 GMT


Once and for all. I beilive that all of this talk concerning the LD 50 has invariably shown that suicide by marijuana is both costly, and very difficult, if not impossible.


feliz navidad, Hui



Newsgroups: alt.drugs,alt.folklore.urban
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Subject: Re: UL: Monumental LSD overdose taken (was: Re: Brands of LSD)
Organization: Western Washington University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 03:44:14 GMT

cucem@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Chad Mattingly) writes:

>I was asking a friend of mine who has used acid in the past about it and
>he said that you can't get it anymore and that all the people that talk
>about it are really taking strychnine or something else, but not lsd. Is
>this true? 

No it is 100% an urban ledgend,  no less so than the exploding cactus
story.  There is, however, a very sick boy named Craig Sherinburgstein 
who is trying to collect as many false reports of strychine poisioning 
he can before he dies, so keep those rumors going.

>Also, what's strychnine like?  James Herriott said it

It is neither exactly like being shot in the head or being squashed with
a car.  It is a poison, so people who can testify what it is like
are rare.   The dunce who wrote "evething you ever wanted to know
about sex" had something to say about s., but his book was an UL
treasure if I remember right (couple stuck during sex, lightbulb in
ass UL, hamsters even?)

>amplifies sensory inputby such an extreme factor that a dog who had
>eaten strychnine (back before regurgitants were included in rat poison)
>had to bekept in a dark room that was kept completely silent, since any
>light or sound would so frighten the dog that his whole body would go
>into spasms of an almost lethal severity.

	It amplifies death to such a extreme factor that you die.

	The drug itself is lethal.  The dog story is likely another  UL, 
because the only kind thing that could be done for a dog so afflicted 
would be to kill it or treat it (doggie blood transfusion?)

	There is simply no connection between strychnine and LSD.  One is
a drug, the other is a deadly pest poison.  Stychnine in no way mimics or 
enhances any bad or good LSD effect.  The ammount of strychnine it would 
take to have any felt effect (which is close to the ammount that it would
take to make you very sick or worse) would not even fit on a piece of LSD 
blotter paper.
	I don't know the orgin of the strichnine in LSD UL, but it
has yet to be substantiated.   I used to believe it myself, because
I knew people who swore it was "true", but it is only true to the same
extent that Elvis sightings are true because many people believe they
happen.

Jim "PCP has been known to contain Elvis"
Del Vecchio
From: chelf@lunatix.uucp (Chad Helfenberger)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Subject: Re: Marijuana Effects
Keywords: Marijuana Effects
Date: 18 Dec 92 21:23:28 GMT
Organization: Lexington Public Access Unix. -KY- (606) 255-9121

In article <BzFGBF.Hv5@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cjf49655@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Chuck) writes:
>>are bad for you is because (if you smoke them regularly), they mask the pain 
>>caused by smoking.  If you're going to smoke cigarettes, just smoke regular 
>>ones; so you'll know when you're smoking too much.
>
>actually i think the "active" ingredient(actually its more the tasty ingredient)
>in menthol cigarettes is, oddly enough, menthol, which is an extract of mint.
>how bout that.
>mentholyptus is Hall's trade name for a combination of menthol and eucalyptus
>oil.

Heh.. Yeah, you're right.  I'm sure I'll have to deal with a few hundred 
messages after this one telling me the same thing :)


-- 
Chad Helfenberger
(chelf@lunatix.uucp) 
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: gak@wrs.com (Richard Stueven)
Subject: Re: What happened to Psylocybin mushrooms?
Reply-To: gak@wrs.com
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:31:46 GMT

In article L15@phage.cshl.org, pjm@isis.cshl.org (Pat Monardo) writes:
>
>you mean the mushrooms with the sun on the top
>and little purple rings on the stem (which i think is
>(yuck) strychnine, or so we were told)?

Egad!  First they put strychnine in blotter, and now in mushrooms as well!

How long before they start putting strychnine in my fish & chips?
Maybe they already have!

When will this scourge end?!?

gak

---
Richard Stueven        gak@wrs.com         attmail!gakhaus!gak        107/H/3&4

        I'm always more outspoken after a few pints of Guinness.
                - Mrs. E. Slocombe

Newsgroups: alt.drugs,alt.folklore.urban
From: carmien@tramp.Colorado.EDU (CARMIEN STEFAN)
Subject: Re: UL: Monumental LSD overdose taken (was: Re: Brands of LSD)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 07:33:25 GMT

 re: acid thru the skin
	Art Kelps, the head boo-hoo of the neo-american church,
a group from Milbrook (when Leary was there), humorously (!!??)
sugested that a sub group of his church, I think he called
them the kights of SPIN, protect the church & it's sacrements
by spreading a mixture of DMSO & LSD on the door handles of 
shurch 'sancturarys' to dose the bad guys & convert them.
	Anybody know what Kleps is up to these days? Please mail me.
Xref: sparky alt.drugs:19522 talk.politics.drugs:7912
From: probst@selkirk.sfu.ca (Scott Probst)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,talk.politics.drugs
Subject: Re: MDMA and self-esteem
Date: 12 Dec 92 01:33:46 GMT
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada

just a note.. the current issue of Gnosis (#26), a magazine devoted to
western inner traditions, is all about psychedelic drugs, including our
old friend MDMA...

scott
Xref: sparky alt.drugs:20062 alt.folklore.urban:31699
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: The ungrateful dead (grass doesn't kill)
From: system@codewks.nacjack.gen.nz (Wayne McDougall)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 13:23:16 NZST
Organization: The Code Works Limited, PO Box 10 155, Auckland, New Zealand

wisp@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Wisp) writes:

> In article <ringo.724436061@craft.camp.clarkson.edu> ringo@craft.camp.clarkso
> >wisp@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Wisp) writes:
> >
> >>>> There is no "lethal dose" of marijuana.
> >>>
> >
> >>Finally, the point I was making was that it *is* horseshit to say that
> >>there is no lethal dose of marijuana. I stand by that: it's like saying
> >>there's no lethal dose of alcohol, or tobacco, or sugar. The fact that the
> >>lethal dose cannot be feasibly consumed in the case of marijuana is
> >>neither here nor there...
> >
> >Then what on earth was your original point??? That there is, in fact, a
> >lethal dose of marijuana? There's a lethal dose of water, there is a
> 
> You got it in one. There *is* a lethal dose of marijuana. That's it, that's
> all. End of story. That's all she wrote. The fat lady's sung. There is no
> more. It's over...

This has become a definitional argument.
1. There is a lethal does of ANYTHING if you ignore all physical constraints
   [Interesting point - is there ANYTHING that can't kill you by ingesting it?]
   [Uninteresting point - what is the lethal dose of a black hole?]
2. A more reasonable definition of lethal dose is something that could be
obtained - even if virtually impossible - but not definitively impossible.

Choose your definition, and choose your answer.




-- 
  Wayne McDougall, BCNU
  This .sig unintentionally left blank.

Hello! I'm a .SIG Virus. Copy me and spread the fun.
From: mccoy39@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Subject: Re: LSD and Violent Behavior. Yes.
Date: 12 Dec 92 02:43:52 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


My friend had a bad acid trip, he recovered, then he started experiencing
flashbacks and was convinced he had ruined his brain, and jumped out a
window.

Several people have asked me for references about this incident.  
The incident happened at the University of Pennsylvania last spring.
No one talked to the press.  There is nothing to read in the papers
other than "college student jumps from window" and "details of personal
life were unavailable."  No one talked to the press.

Personally, I do not believe the LSD actually caused his problems,
but rather when he became depressed the memories of his horrifying
experience helped convince him he really had lost his mind.  His freak-
out served as proof to him that he was unstable, destined to become
psychotic forever, etc.  I tried to dissuade him with arguments of
"look, it could have happened to anyone, you lived through it, don't
trip again, etc." but he would conter by talking about typical LSD
horror stories, and argue that his loss of control proved he was
going crazy.

Perhaps one of the biggest risks for people have a bad trip is the 
media horror stories.  Obviously most people who trip don't wind up
in the hospital, so when you actually do it "proves" that you must
be screwed-up.  There are so many accounts of people who took acid
and then "were never the same again" that if you have a bad 
experience it can convince you that you are permanently damaged. 

The shrink he saw told him "Using LSD is like strapping a stick of
dynamite to your head and lighting the fuse," then proceeded to 
prescribe Prozac and Haldol and Xanax and said he should be hospitalized.
All this served simply to validate his theory that he was going nuts,
so he killed himself.

I think all the posters have been making good points.  BE CAREFUL.

MCCOY39
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,alt.folklore.urban
From: carmien@tramp.Colorado.EDU (CARMIEN STEFAN)
Subject: Re: UL: Monumental LSD overdose taken (was: Re: Brands of LSD)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 07:26:10 GMT

I had a friend when I was an acid-head in the late 60's who was dealing
acid and regulary made (hitch hiking) trips from LA to Berkley and back
(to score) and was asleep in the back of a car on the way back from 
Berkley when the car was stopped by the California Hi Way patrol. He 
woke up to a cop's flashlight in his face and his first reaction was to 
take his stach, something like 50 hits of 'purple micro dot'. This was
in the days of 175 - 250 micro gramm dosages. He didn't get busted and
arrived on my doorstep about 3 hours later in _VERY_ spacy shape. 
	We took care of him but it took several days before he was him self 
again.
Also - there is the probibly apocraphal story of the baby elephant
that died after a very large dose (usually something like 2 grams).

Xref: sparky alt.drugs:19984 talk.politics.drugs:8008 talk.politics.misc:64791
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,talk.politics.drugs,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: "Drugs" threaten democracy in former Soviet Union
Date: 18 Dec 92 17:41:08 GMT
Followup-To: alt.drugs
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>
>Who said anything about paying them? No, I wouldn't starve them. However,
>a very bland vegetarian diet would probably do wonders at gaining their
>cooperation.

     AHEM!

     Something wrong with a vegetarian diet? B->

>: I think that for property crimes anyway, they should get time taken off
>: only if and when they fully repay their victim for all damages (like
>: half off).   Whether they get this money from making shoes in prison
>: or by borrowing it all from a relative is not important.  Making the
>: victim whole again financialy is the most important goal.
>
>Agreed.

     Wonderful. A criminal justice system that discriminates even more
between rich and poor. No thank you. 

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@cs.umd.edu  |  "Born to die"   |   Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
                     Keep your values off my family.
  "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in
   the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
   -- _Calvin and Hobbes_
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,alt.folklore.urban
From: cliftonr@netcom.com (Pope Clifton)
Subject: Re: LSD scarcity. was Re: UL: Monumental LSD overdose taken
Organization: t.b, t.p.d, & a.d
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 08:24:41 GMT

Ryan Craig (craig@ug.cs.dal.ca) wrote:
: I wonder if this is a common situation elsewhere on this continent, or in the
: world for that matter.  As of late, (last year or so) acid has become increas-
: ingly difficult to find in these parts.  I've heard of people paying $10(Cdn)
: per hit for several of them.  ...
: ....  Has the supply been reduced?  People more worried
: about getting caught for possesion of acid, due to raised penalties?  More
: demand among the new wave of college students?  I don't know, but the
: days of cheap acid (among other things) seem to have passed.  Anyway, just
: something to think about.

  I suspect import or distribution problems.  My brother who lives in
SF told me a couple of weeks ago that acid is cheaper than it's ever been
in the Bay Area -- down as low as $50 for a sheet of 100 (light) blotters,
or the equivalent in liquid form.
  No, I won't put you in touch with anyone who has any.
  -- Clifton

--
cliftonr@netcom.com     Home: +1 808 521 9073  Work: +1 808 625 3234
Clifton Royston, Pope of the Church of the Subgenius in Paradise
"Have a revelation, the first one's free/Soon to be addicted to eternity" - HMR
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,alt.folklore.urban
From: bowman@reed.edu (BoBoRamDos)
Subject: Re: UL: Monumental LSD overdose taken (was: Re: Brands of LSD)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:04:39 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.200601.20901@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>Strychnine does not have any psychedelic effect - at all.

Actually, Bill, I think this statement's a little strong.  For the record, I
*have* ingested strychnine recreationally, and -- though "psychedelic" is
a little hard to define -- it sure *seemed* psychedelic to me.  Not alot,
but a little.  BTW, when this occurred I was as-yet still unsubjected to
the LSD-strychnine bullshit.

cheers,
bobo              In seeking the unattainable,
bowman@reed.edu            simplicity only gets in the way.
Ask not what's inside your head but what your head's inside of. - W. Mace
Newsgroups: alt.drugs