HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: al.sorhaindo@brent.uucp (Al Sorhaindo) 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Heisman Criteria
Date: 25 Aug 92 16:14:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Brentwood BBS Harrison, NY  914-835-7898
Reply-To: al.sorhaindo@brent.uucp (Al Sorhaindo) 

What criteria should be used to decide the Heisman trophy winner?

I originally wrote:

>>Nothing. It should be abolished because it emphasizes individualism
>>in a team sport.

Cooper from Oklahoma St. writes:

CR>While it is quite true it is a bit over politicized, I think that
CR>every now and then the Heisman hits on a true class act.  A player
CR>who is playing for the love of the sport and who plays the game with
CR>grace both on the field and off.
CR>Some recent examples:
CR>  Staubauch, Cappelletti, Sanders.

I agree, I made an overstatement, but the Heisman should be demphasized.
It receives more attention than similar awards in any other sport, yet
the winner is more likely to depend on hype and circumstance than in
any other sport.

Another example is last year when Mario Bailey had similar receiving
statistics as Desmond Howard but might as well have not existed as
far as Heisman voters were concerned. Or, in 1989 when Andre Ware won
by padding his stats against teams like the all-freshmen SMU. (Ware
and Klingler both had terrible records against good competition.)

It is a slap in the face to all the good college defensive players and
offensive lineman that two of the highest scoring candidates from their
ranks have been Brian Bosworth, and Tony Mandarich, two of the most blatant
self promotors in the history of football.

It is ironic that only a few wide receivers have won the Heisman trophy,
yet one managed to do so five years ago with only around 20 receptions.

Heisman winners have had a terrible record recently in Bowl games.
I wonder if it is because their opponents are pumped up to put
what they believe is an overrated media child in his place.


1991: Washington 34 Michigan 14. Howard- Only one reception
1990: Texas A & M 52 BYU 14. Detmer is knocked out of the game, but not
before throwing a few interceptions. Just hours after he won the Heisman
Detmer's favored BYU squad is routed by Hawaii 59-28 with Ty tossing
four completions to the wrong side.
1989: Andre Ware's Houston team is ineligible for a bowl. 
1988: Sanders runs wild in a 62-14 whipping of Wyoming.
1987: Tim Brown and Notre Dame are ruined by an underdog A & M team.
1986: Testaverde is stifled by Penn St. Miami loses the national title.
1985: Bo Jackson's Auburn Tigers are upset in the cotton bowl. 
1984: Doug Flutie's BC eagles win the cotton bowl, I think.
1983: Mike Rozier's Cornhuskers lose to Miami in the Orange bowl. 

In a nine year period, Heisman winners go 2-7 in post Heisman games,
despite being favored in 7 of them.

                                      Al
---
 . DeLuxe. 1.21 #11688 . al.sorhaindo@execnet.com
                                 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: mjo@beat.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Michael J. Oatley)
Subject: Re: Alabama Football
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:14:19 GMT

In article <vaqy6vm@rpi.edu>, kollur@jec330.its.rpi.edu (Ramana Kolluri) writes:
|> Is there anyone out there willing to put out an Alabama report every week? I 
|> have seen such reports from other colleges and I would really love to see
|> a "Bama report". I am stuck here in upstate New York, a region that seems
|> to be unaware about the existance of college football. So if it's not
|> too much of a bother could someone please do it....

Well, I don't know if I'll do a weekly comprehensive, but I'll post info
as I hear, if not reported to the net first...and here's an item:

David Palmer was granted youthful offender status in his drunk driving
case. The record on the case is now permanently sealed. Some facts in 
the case: Palmer is 19, YO can be granted to persons 21 or younger;
his BAC was 0.236, legal limit in Alabama is 0.10; fines, court costs
and other punishments will not be revealed.

Editorial: I've known people near Palmer's age who were charged with
DWI in Alabama. None of them were near Palmer's BAC level. None were
ever granted youthful offender status. A couple even had to spend a
weekend in jail. Either Palmer was given preferential treatment as an
Bama athlete or the court chalked it up to his difficult childhood and
decided to give him a break. Or both. I don't think Stallings is going
to do anything by way of punishment.




	Michael J. Oatley		"When the going gets weird
	Intergraph Corp.		 the weird turn pro."
 	Huntsville, AL
	mjo@beat.b24a.ingr.com
	ingr!b24a!beat!mjo			Hunter S. Thompson
	205/730-8738
From: kennedy@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (Ralph Kennedy)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: CFPOOL: Week #1 Entry
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:23:30 GMT
Organization: Arizona State Univ, Tempe

In article <yrhn#3k.alc@netcom.com>, alc@netcom.com (Chris Stassen) writes:
> The reason I left UW/ASU off the list was that I don't think it is
> likely to be close.  Nobody is picking ASU to crack the top half of
> the Pac-10, while Washington is a unanimous pick to win the conference
> and a consensus pick to finish in the top three nationally.

     Well I agree with your basic premise about
chosing close games, but given your choices of:

	Louisiana Tech @ Baylor             Baylor by 12.5
	Louisville @ Ohio State             Ohio State by 15
	Miami (Florida) @ Iowa              Miami by 16
	TCU @ New Mexico                    TCU by 16

I really don't see how Washington-ASU is any worse, the
point spread being in the same range.  And it is one
of the few conference games this week.

     Oh well, enough said!  I've probably jinxed ASU
all to hell now.

--Ralph Kennedy      {ames,gatech,husc6,rutgers}!ncar!noao!asuvax!kennedy
                        {allegra,decvax,ihnp4,oddjob}--^
                                          ^---------------The Wrong Choice
                             internet: kennedy@asuvax.asu.edu
From: tech@maitland.cs.ucf.edu (Tony Travaglini)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: 91 BlockBuster (Was Re: Bama in the polls)
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:28:41 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Central Florida, Orlando

In article <1992Aug26.220727.4427@colorado.edu> manu@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Njan) writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.191236.330@cs.ucf.edu> tech@cs.ucf.edu (Tony Travaglini) writes:
>>
>>Just goes to show how lame the buffs are if they only have 4 downs to
>>do something..... 
>
>Say something original for a change... *Yawn*
>
>>Teauxny (Just say 'Noles) Travaglini
>
>Njan

In this case jan I'll forgo originality for accuracy... *Burp*

Tony (Just say 'Noles) Travaglini
tech@cs.ucf.edu
From: cubbie@garnet.berkeley.edu (                               )
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: ND's DuBose Situation
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:31:26 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu


>>Why was he cleared in the car loan ?  Did it not happen ?  It seemed
>>pretty clear,  by the Tribune reports that this was a violation.  DId the
>>NCAA give any indication why he was cleared ?

BECAUSE he plays at THE holiest football factory!!
From: HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Yes!  The Dreaded GCMB!
Date: 3 Sep 92 18:04:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: menudo.1992Sep3.180414.6910
Organization: University of Houston Administrative Computing
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <1992Sep2.210709.28265@usho93.hou281.chevron.com> hjjcl@usho77.hou281.chevron.com writes:

> JIMMY writes:
> >  Gentlemen and Ladies:
> >
> >  I have stumbled across something so insidious, so shocking, that I just *had*
> >to bring it to your attention.
> >
> >  Miami, Florida State, Florida, Texas A&M, Texas, Texas Tech, Alabama, all in
> >the top 25-30 or so...all from Gulf Coast states...
> >
> > YES!  It's the rise of the dreaded Gulf Coast Media Bias (GCMB[tm])!  
> >We must act swiftly to save College Football from these deadly MB plagues!
> 
> Too late Jammer.  I hear the FutureProbationers of Missy State have also
> been selected by fickle fate to play a part in this dreaded (and much
> appreciated) conspiracy.....
> 
> Thats all I kneaux for now....
> 
> (Will any others GCMB beneficiaries be ordained after Sept
> 5th....perhaps at the expense of another GCer?.....)
> James Clyde     LSU '91   |             -- Briscoe Darlin, T.A.G.S.

  Why James, who ever could you mean?  I think t.u. and Miss. State, already
benefitting from the GCMB, don't count.  Who does 'Bama play on the 5th?

BIG :-)


semper fi,

Jammer Jim Miller 
Texas A&M University '89 and '91
* Aggie in Cougarland -- I just work here.				       *
* Speak for my employers?  They don't even know I exist!		       *
*"Become one with the Student Billing System. *BE* the Student Billing System."*
* "Power finds its way to those who take a stand.  Stand up, Ordinary Man."    *
*      ---Rik Emmet, Gil Moore, Mark Levine: Triumph 		               *
From: ddavidson@cbacc.cba.uga.edu (Dennis Davidson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Tennessee Football
Date: 26 Aug 92 13:08:54 GMT
Organization: Terry College of Business, University of Georgia

Could someone out there send me some information on Johnny Majors' 
condition, and how the team will be run without him at the helm. Thank you 
in advance.
From: fierro@uts.amdahl.com (Doug Fierro)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: A&M BEATS BILL WALSH...er, I mean, STANFORD!!!
Date: 27 Aug 92 20:01:58 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <78469@ut-emx.uucp> pokey@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Vince Rhee) writes:
>
>
>	Gee, now maybe the media will quit talking about Bill Walsh's
>	genius...nothing against Walsh personally (he *is* a damn
>	great coach), but I had had about enough of "Can the Ags get
>	past Walsh?", etc. etc. ad nauseum.

  But where's Joe? :-)

  Yes, I think everyone on the Farm now realizes that Bill Walsh is just
a man, not a god (at least not without Montana).

  The Aggies are damn lucky to pull that one out, especially on that very
bad call where the Aggie defense guy not only was on top of the Stanford
receiver before he touched the ball, but then the guy falls on the ground
on top of the ball and it is ruled an interception.

  Tough defense from both; got pretty boring actually- the punters got
more action than the QBs- something like 22 punts total in the game.  I'm
sure all the Pac-10 fans were checking out Stanford's players.  They got
some good ones to watch out for during the season.

  Doug
-- 
                                                     Doug Fierro
                                      |\             UTS System Software
  O                         __________|_\______      CASE tools development
  \_.______________________| * * * * * * * * */      fierro@uts.amdahl.com
 __\____                   |=================/       (408)746-7102
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: ddn@cbnews.cb.att.com (david.d.nason)
Subject: Buckeye gameweek
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:45:56 GMT

Well, the Buckeyes open at Home against Louisville this Saturday
at 12:30 (ESPN), and news out of the Buckeye camp has been relatively
slow the last couple of weeks.  This is a welcome change from some
previous years, when preseason camp was plagued by unfortunate injuries
and/or incidents.

Most of the news has been about how good certain players have been
looking (Smith, Harper, Stringer, etc.).

Raymont Harris has been out 1-2 weeks with a sprained ankle.
He rejoined practice yesterday, but his status for Saturday
is questionable.  He is still listed as #1 tailback, but Robert
Smith will start if he can't go.

Last year, Louisville gave OSU a pretty good game, losing 15-23,
but after about the 4th game of the year, they were pretty awful.
They have some good players and quite a few starters back, but
they've got some serious rebuilding to do before getting back
to their level of two years ago.  My prediction:

	Ohio State:	30
	Louisville:	10

david
From: stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: ND Schedules
Date: 25 Aug 92 23:10:47 GMT
Distribution: usa

Susan E Schudt writes
+ 
+ Since there has been discussion on ND schedules, here they are from 1993 to 
+ 1997.  From Blue and Gold Illustrated:

+ S6   MIAMI(OHIO)

Hey, they didn't drop Miami!

James - :) :) :) :)
From: wft@soda.berkeley.edu (William F. Tell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Transitivity (was Re: SI Preseason Top 20)
Date: 1 Sep 1992 18:24:25 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <BILLMS.92Sep1081222@z.eecs.umich.edu> billms@eecs.umich.edu (William Mangione-Smith) writes:
>In article <17v6b1INNgv2@agate.berkeley.edu> wft@soda.berkeley.edu (William F. Tell) writes:
>
>   >
>   >And Washington is not in California, and its questionable
>   >if Michigan really benefits from the ECMB.
>
>   Michigan is in the Eastern Time Zone.  They get help from it.  Cal
>   played Washington down to the wire.  Michigan was romped by U-Dub.
>   Who's the better team?  
>
>Transitivity Law, huh?  Can't wait until something weird happens by the 4'th
>weekend that lets you tell us that Pacific is clearly the #1 team.
>
>Bill

I was just using that as a test case with a single common opponent.
I'm not going to do the stupid exercise of saying that because
Team A beat team B which beat team C which beat Team D that A is better
than C or D.  You don't really know who is the better team except on
game day on the field.   

For this reason, I think the preseason polls are dumb.  They set up a bias
system, largely controlled by the East Coast Media, that hurts teams from
the West.  

I think a lot of the polling problems would go away if they waited at least
4 weeks into the football season before publishing the first poll.  But
I know they will never do this because the polls drive up interest for
the games on Television.

William F. Tell
UC Berkeley
From: stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: 91 BlockBuster (Was Re: Bama in the polls)
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:53:46 GMT
Followup-To: rec.sport.football.college
Distribution: na
Organization: Murasami Labs

K. S. Manu wrote:

> >Marty Henderson writes:

> >Nebraska is a good team - but not a GREAT team - right now anyway.

> Good, you are half way there. Now if you could accept the GREATness of CU...

Is this the same CU that lost to Baylor last year at home?

James
From: gunner1+@pitt.edu (Jayant Rajgopal)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: IOWA vs MIAMI: 27:21
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:33:17 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Sep4.164918.25352@fcom.cc.utah.edu> jli@bingham.utah.edu (Jianliang Li) writes:
>
>	IOWA will recover its last week's fumble by upsetting #1 MIAMI:
>
>		IOWA 27 : MIAMI 21
>
>
>JLI,  PSU '90

HEY !  What's the story man ?  Are you a Miami fan or something ?  Don't
we have enough of them ?  If you're not one, don't you know that you're never,
and I mean NEVER supposed to predict that the good guys will win ?  Please
refer to the r.s.f.c text and study Oliver's Woofing Theorem.

BTW, now that we finally have the word "Iowa" in the text of a post which has 
the word "Iowa" in the title I wonder if anyone else felt like the coaching
really sucked the big one against NC State.  I mean, don't get me wrong, as a
rule I like Hayden's style - the man's got pizzazz- but the coaching staff
seemed quite clueless at times on how to defend against the 'pack. 
And that fourth and 3 call.  Christ !  Down by a field goal, with something 
like six minutes remaining in the game and on your own 45 yard line, 
why on earth would you make that call ?  Also, when you have this
highly touted kicker why not let him try a 46 yard field goal, instead of
punting from the 29 yard line ?  OK, I know it turned out fine since the punt 
was downed near the 2 yard line, but it doesn't do much for the kicker's
confidence - perhaps that's why he promptly missed his next attempt...

Oh well. 

--jr--

GO HAWKEYES !
From: stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Erickson,Spurrier,Bowden
Date: 27 Aug 92 22:07:22 GMT
Distribution: usa

JAMES P O writes

+ Erickson and Spurrier both agree to paying the players. They added that 
+ it should cut a big portion of NCAA rules that affect high profile, high
+ profit schools. GET RID OF THE RED TAPE!!

Hell, just make 'em farm teams for the NFL franchises.

James
From: sboztas@solar.usc.edu (Serdar Boztas)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Trojan News
Date: 3 Sep 1992 17:04:24 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: solar.usc.edu

mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes:

>>>USC 66
>>>Cal 0

>I wasn't going to nitpick, but it strikes me as pretty unlikely that
>Cal would have gotten waxed by U$C at home, so '83 isn't that likely.
>Can anyone confirm/debunk this score?

That score is wrong, USC won 19-9 at Berkeley in 1983. Their biggest
win in the 80's vs Cal was 60-7 at the Coliseum.

>-- 
>Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
>SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
>Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974

Serdar

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: garys@cs.tamu.edu (Gary Wayne 'Goober' Smith)
Subject: Re: Beano Cook a closet Orange
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
Distribution: rec
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 17:48:03 GMT

In article <19302@ector.cs.purdue.edu> sjc@cs.purdue.EDU (Steve Chapin) writes:
>}} In article <1992Aug21.014301.14574@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> saqx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
>}} 
>}} Of course not!  If the Orange is lucky enough to get Notre Damn in whichever
>}} of the big bowls they go to, they will BEAT those semiliterate hominids.
>
>My god!  What is this, literature class?  First Peter Reiher uses the
>word 'obstreperous,' and now we have 'semiliterate hominids.'
>
>Goober, you gonna sit there and take that?  The anti-aggie forces are
>winning.  I expect a cogent and bellicose counterargument from you.

You expect a *what* from me?

- goober (webster sure did get a workout on this posting) smith
From: kollur@jec330.its.rpi.edu (Ramana Kolluri)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Alabama Football
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:52:11 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY

Hi!
Is there anyone out there willing to put out an Alabama report every week? I 
have seen such reports from other colleges and I would really love to see
a "Bama report". I am stuck here in upstate New York, a region that seems
to be unaware about the existance of college football. So if it's not
too much of a bother could someone please do it....
Thanks!
Ramana
(kollur@rpi.edu)
          
                ROLL TIDE!
From: acdendy@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (ROGER DENDY)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Hurricanes avoiding Andrew
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:57:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Aug24.203255.1671@mdd.comm.mot.com>, behzad@mdd.comm.mot.com (Behzad Khamneian) writes...
> 
>I was just interested in knowing where the Miami Hurricanes went to resume
>practice when Andrew was rolling into town?
> 

Those CHICKENS!!!  They're hiding in the Orange Bowl.

And of course, the Ibis hasn't left yet.


>Just curious.
> 
>Thanx,
> 
>Behzad
> 
> 

R Dendy
From: billms@eecs.umich.edu (William Mangione-Smith)
Subject: Re: Demetrius DuBose news
Organization: University of Michigan
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:01:05 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.230249.14421@cs.ucla.edu> reiher@pram.cs.ucla.edu (Peter Reiher) writes:

   Courtesy of the LA Times.  

   The NCAA committee did not make a decision on DuBose, as the Times
   had reported they would.  

According to the Chicago Tribune, this is not true.  The ncaa informed ND on
Monday that DuBose will be ineligible for the first two games, and apparently
ND did not immediately announce that (nothing says they have to). 

Bill
--
-------------------------------
	Bill Mangione-Smith
	billms@eecs.umich.edu
From: cday@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Chris Day)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 22:10:21 GMT
Subject: Re: SI Preseason Top 20
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college



Am I missing something here-

The only far west teams are Washington at 5 and SDSU at 20 ???

Seriously ???

I've heard of large national magazines distributing regional versions
with localized advertising...............

But really....

Hey, look, Clemson was #16 !!!

Chris Day
HP Santa Rosa Calif

   "My two favorite teams are the Cal Bears and whoever is playing Stanfud"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: edmondso@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Rich Edmondson)
Subject: Re: 91 BlockBuster (Was Re: Bama in the polls)
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 12:46:25 GMT

edmondso@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Rich Edmondson) writes:

>Hey Husker-

>I live in Alabama and I've never met a BAMA fan that will admit that
>The Bear is dead, much less talk logically about their team.  I guess
>following up on the thread about special teams, with David "Duece"
                                                 ^^^^
>Palmer BAMA would have been pretty mediocre last year.  But - they did
>have him, and he is back this year too.

Oops.  Meant without.  Big difference.  Sorry.

Rich Edmondson, Huntsville, AL       War Damn Eagle!
edmondso@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov        Hey Bama, see ya in Auburn!
                                     Hey Eric, tape this! (|) <- butt
From: wft@soda.berkeley.edu (William F. Tell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Trojan News
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:50:27 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

As for Cal students not knowing the words to all the fight songs (of
which I think there are at least a dozen), I don't seem to ever hear
U$C fans singing away their songs.  It's certainly nothing like the
crowd at Michigan games singing "Hail to the Victors."  

are there words to "Tribute to Troy" other than the parody ones?

William F. Tell
University of California
"There's only one Cal... and it's in Berkeley."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: jfawcett@encore.com (Jason Fawcett)
Subject: Re: IOWA FALLS 14-24
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 04:37:59 GMT

sschudt@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Susan E Schudt) writes:


>In article <1992Sep1.133544.11537@cs.wayne.edu> steve@nova.eng.wayne.edu (Steve
> Phillips) writes:
>>You have to give Notre Dame a little credit though.  By refusing to schedule
>>Miami in future years because of their "lower academic standards" than Notre
>>Dame, they at least gave themselves a shot to go without a crushing defeat
>>every year...  That is, if they get by Michigan.
>>

>You're funny!

>Does anyone remember 1988?  '90?  Oh yea, I forgot.  Miami
>also lost to BYU in '90.  They were depressed after that, they lost their
>senses and kicked to The Rocket.

We remember how the Ref's gave the game to ND.   I Remember a bad call, the
re-play showed that Miami had a first down.  That gave Miami a first
down on the one inch line.  One bad call, or Miami whould have had five NC's
in nine years.

>See you in the Fiesta Bowl.  That is, if you can get by Penn State.  ;)

 God made ND #1, Miami made them #2. 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college