HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Ralph Kiner
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 13:43:48 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.130401.24474@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> pablo@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Pablo A Iglesias) writes:

>I was talking to another of the professors in our dept who grew up
>in Pittsburgh in the 50's about Kiner.  He remembers seeing him
>play at Forbes field.  I told him about the amazing years Kiner had
>early in his carreer, which made me think.  Why did Kiner only play
>10 years?  Did he somewhat lose it?  I know that he was traded, but 
>from memory, his numbers didn't seem that bad in his final years. 
>Was Forbes field a very good hitters park?

Kiner retired in 1955, aged almost 33, with a very bad back.  It had been
causing him trouble for years.  Nowadays, surgery could probably correct 
his problem.

Forbes was improved somewhat to make Kiner's life easier; before that, the
left field wall was almost insurmountable (and hard to hit a ball over,
too, nyuk, nyuk, nyuk).  He hit 8 HR at home and 15 on the road his rookie
year, before they rebuilt; after that, he never hit fewer than 22 HR at 
home when he was with the Pirates.  163-108 in 1947-52.

Aha: the LF line was 365 before 1947; 335 after.  

At any rate, 1952-55 wasn't nearly as good for Kiner as his peak of
1947-51.  234 HR, 586 BB, 604 RBI, 574 R, .295 BA; he'd be OK on my
team...

Roger

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thf2@quads.uchicago.edu (Citecheck Hell)
Subject: Bonds "choke"?
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 22:39:17 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.005602.528@odin.corp.sgi.com> kubey@sgi.com (Ken Kubey) writes:
>How bad will Barry Bonds choke in the 1992 NLCS?
>
>My predicions:  BA: .220  R: 3  HR: 1  RBI: 3  SB: 2 

Looks like a long series if Bonds is going to get 50 AB (and that doesn't
even include walks...)

>Extra Disclaimer:  I have nothing against the Pirates, their fans, 
>or Mr. Bonds.  I just happen to believe in clutch hitters and 
>choke hitters and I believe that Mr. Bonds will choke again.

Like Reggie Jackson's 3 for 18 in his first three World Series?
-- 
           .. . . .  .  .   .    .     .     .    .   .  .  . . . ..
          ted frank | thf2@midway.uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers
         the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
From: cscdc@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Dan Carpenter)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Torre!  Torre!  Torre!
Date: 5 Oct 92 00:11:52 GMT
Organization: Educational Computing Network

In article <BvG6qA.7L4@news.cso.uiuc.edu> hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu (Harold_Brooks) writes:
>Get a hold of your seats, folks.  I'm going to say something positive
>about both Joe Torre and (gasp!) Andres Galarraga's performances this
>year.  
>
>For the first time in 10 tries, a Joe Torre-managed club is going to
>finish above .500 in the period 1 August-end of season.  The 1991 

For another *10*,  Torre (Tory) lost 10 games at least, by poor
managing.  Let's see, if we put those 10 games on the other side of the
column, the Birds would have at least finished 2nd.  And possibly, ...
1st.

It is time for Torre's departure along with the dead weight of:
Galarraga, Guerrero, B. Smith, Gedman, DeLeon, Hudler, L. Smith.

If Zeile doesn't finally do it in 1993, and Woodson does,  Bye, Bye,
Zeile.

Dan



==============================================================================
C. Daniel Carpenter        A  Midwesterner              cscdc@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
NEVER GIVE UP!  Always remember that the mighty oak was once just a little nut
that held its ground.  
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TODAY, everything is cordless, except newborn babies.
==============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Subject: Sal Bando (WAS Re: Sheffield is NL MVP)
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:51:42 GMT


In article <17614@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary  
Didi Seven Huckabay) writes:
> Second of all, what makes you think that GMs know everything about
> player value?  Dal Maxvill isn't my idea of a good yardstick to
> measure baseball knowledge against.  Neither is Jim Frey, Sal Bando,
> or several other past and present GMs. 

Gee, I thought Sal Bando had done OK so far. 
He hasn't done anything spectacular, but he did bring in 
some cheap replacement level players (Seitzer and Flecther)
who've done a decent job for the Brewers.

I do think he's mishandled the Robin Yount situation.
What other decisions has he botched?
(I place Eldred at Garner's doorstep)

john rickert
rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
Go Brewers!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Lead off walks....
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 02:07:34 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.143731.1311@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>In article <1992Oct1.120014.11375@Princeton.EDU>, roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>> In article <1992Sep30.233148.1297@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>>>In article <GRABINER.92Sep30183837@germain.harvard.edu>, grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner) writes:
>>>> In article <1992Sep30.153621.1287@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>, z writes:

>>>>> 	The avergae pitcher gives up a hit an inning. If a pitcher gives
>>>>> up a single to lead off the inning, there is a good chance there won't
>>>>> be another hit that inning. OTOH, if the pitcher leads off yeilding a
>>>>> walk, the batting team still has that hit they are likely to pick up
>>>>> later in the inning.

>>>> This is the gambler's fallacy.  The chance that a coin will land heads
>>>> does not depend on the previous flip.  Likewise, the chance that a team
>>>> will get a hit in the current inning does not depend on what happened in
>>>> the earlier part of the inning.

>>>	No, it is not gambler's fallacy; the chance of a team getting two hits
>>>in an inning is less than the chance of them getting one hit in an inning.

>> Exactly -- this is the gambler's fallacy in its pure form.  Yes, the
>> chance of getting two hits is smaller -- but the team doesn't NEED two hits!
>> It only needs one, because it already HAS one.   The conditional probability
>> of two hits total, GIVEN that there's already been one, is HIGHER than
>> the raw probability of getting one, as we know from split-stats.

>	You aren't arguing what I'm arguing. I'm arguing that from the start of
>an inning, the chances of the batting team getting two hits in that inning is
>far less than getting just one hit in that inning. This argument is NOT
>incorrect. It might not be relevant, but it isn't incorrect.

No, Brandon, that is *not* what you were arguing.  You were arguing that
p(hit|leadoff walk) is different from p(hit|leadoff hit) because of the
"two hits less likely than one" interpretation of the gambler's fallacy.
Read your own words above.  

Now you come around and claim that you only meant to say that two hits
are less likely than one -- a fact so stunningly irrelevant that you
couldn't possibly have meant it wrt the "explanation" you proposed above.

Sorry, it doesn't wash.  

Roger


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: BAERGA FOR AL MVP!!!
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 92 06:13:30 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.224151.29686@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> wilbanks@spot.Colorado.EDU (Wendell Gee) writes:

>But there is a case for Carlos Baerga. He has been a one-man offensive 
>machiune this year: 200 hits, 100 RBI, and flashes of brillance at 2b. 
>The Native Americans haven't had a hitter like him since, well, Joe Carter.
>And the truth is that the Indians don't have the talent the Jays, A's, or 
>most of the American League. That Baerga can do this well in cavernous 
>Municipal Stadium is amazing. He deserves the MVP. 

This deserves to be in rec.humor.funny.

Seriously, if 200 hits make you an MVP, then you have to really give out
multiple MVPs.  For example, on the Rangers alone, last year, there were three
200-hit players.

Baerga was an excellent 2B this year, but doesn't come close to Roberto
Alomar or Lou Whitaker, because he doesn't draw walks, and, compared to them,
have less power.
>
>If Cleveland can hang on to him, maybe they might be able to build a 
>contending team.

Yes.  If they want to build a contending team, then they have to hold onto
him.  However, holding onto him doesn't necessarily mean that they will.
What they need to do is to make smart deals (e. g., the trade that brought
Paul Sorrento to Cleveland) and sign good, inexpensive free agents (i. e.,
not Keith Hernandez).

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: nissim@mary.fordham.edu (Leonard J. Nissim)
Subject: Re: Inevitable changes
Organization: Fordham University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 20:21:00 GMT
X-Posted-From: mary.fordham.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Sep29.112633.2251@vixvax.mgi.com>, eiswirth@vixvax.mgi.com 
(Steve Eiswirth) writes...
>Local (St. Paul-Minneapolis) columnist Pat Reusse has a very interesting piece
>in the paper today.  The gist of it was the following:
> 
>Now that the owner's have their lackey installed as pseudo commish, and the
>TV contract is coming up for renewal, you can count on the following three
>network-influenced changes to baseball:
> 
>	1.  Interleague play
>	2.  The return of the 156 game schedule
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>	3.  Wildcard playoff system
[reactions deleted] 

For the record, the old (pre-1962 NL, pre-1961 AL) schedule was 22 games 
against each of 7 other teams; this was 154 games, not 156. 

IMO, 3. would indeed be vile. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leonard Nissim, notorious Dodger fanatic     (nissim@mary.fordham.edu)  
Disclaimer:  "I speak only for myself."   
World Championships:  Brooklyn-----1955   
                      Los Angeles--1959  1963  1965  1981  1988
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: psima01@convex.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (M. Maisack)
Subject: help fans overseas
Organization: Comp. Center (ZDV) U of Tuebingen, FRG
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:05:37 GMT

since the excellent service "MLB standings [date]"
has been inactive for a while (I guess the poster is
on holiday or business trip), could someone
please post the current division standings ( at the top)
for us poor folks overseas?

Thanks in advance
Michael
From: rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Greg Swindell
Keywords: Reds and NL West
Date: 2 Oct 92 20:19:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.BvIGH7.3I1
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1992Oct2.142459.28902@cis.ohio-state.edu> ellis@cherry.cis.ohio-state.edu (steven lawrence ellis) writes:
>What's the deal w/ Greg Swindell?  Since his rib injury he has not been
>himself.  He was as dominant as about any pitcher out there from mid May to
>around mid July.  Since coming off the DL he has been slightly below average
>and well below his personal average.
>
>Also, I've heard rumors about his wanting to play next year in Houston.  Is
>Houston ready to pay that kind of money?  I think they should.  If you add
>a couple of outstanding players to that club they already have enough talent
>that they could be one of the best in the west next year.  Consider that the
>Reds have a couple of people eligible for free-agency this year.  Anyone know
>about the Braves situation in this reguard?  It will be an interesting off-
>season.
>
As previously noted, Greg WILL try out the free agent market.  If the 'stros
new owner makes good on his pledge to try to make his team winners, he'll probably
be able to get away with a relatively small (3 millionish) offer and snag Swindell,
who must be feeling homesick  (as a native Texan,, I say "Why not?)
The Reds tried to shove something like 3.3 mill down Greg's throat, but he 
wasn't swallowing.  Too bad.
As far as other free agents go, probably Bill Doran and Dave Martinez will 
be playing elsewhere next year.  See ya!

Back to the Astros, I wonder if they really need a hammer for a pitcher.  
It seems to me they need sluggers (ie, folks that can cause runs to score)
more than they need pitchers.  I know the Reds, for example, can't score in
the Astrodome to save their lives.  On the other hand, Houston's road record
is pretty shabby (ranks right up there with the Reds) so they're perhaps
getting scored on quite a bit outside "the friendly confines."

RStimets
From: gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Bonds "choke"?
Date: 6 Oct 92 12:52:39 GMT
Organization: Somewhere in Hoboken

someone said :if bonds hit 245, he'd ride the bench.

excuse me????

he had 34 homers, 127 walks, 36 doubles, 39 steals, and you'd have
 him ride the bench???

that's howard johnson's previous off years, plus a few points, walks,
 homers, and doubles.

that's rob deer's year THIS year if you doubled the walks, almost
 doubled the doubles, and infinitely added to the steals.

barry bonds could hit 200 and have value for this team. unless the
 way you "made" him a 245 hitter was to remove all his homers, 
 steals, and walks. - bob gaj
From: sckelm@iastate.edu (Steven C Kelm)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: RG's 1992 Tribe Front Office Report Card
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:49:25 GMT
Followup-To: sckelm@vincent1.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA

In article <5OCT199215344050@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov> ecaxron@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Ron Graham) writes:>
>o	Trade of minor-league pitchers Oscar Munoz and Curtis Leskanic
>	to Minnesota for 1B Paul Sorrento - A
>
>This trade receives the highest grade available, for the following reasons:
>
>(1) Kent Hrbek went on the DL within *hours* after the deal.

What's your point?

>(2) The Tribe was looking at Brook Jacoby at 1B the entire season otherwise.
>(3) Hrbek was injured much of the season and had one long slump.  The Twins,
>    you can be sure, wished they had kept Sorrento more than once.  At one
>    point, when the Indians approached Minnesota to inquire about SP David
>    West, Sorrento's name was immediately brought up - which is why West is
>    not on the Tribe now.

	While I agree that the Tribe got a better short-term deal, the 
long-term may be very different.  I'm not too sure of your reasoning above.
Were the Indians telepathic or something to know Hrbek would go out?  What
is the difference anyway?  I thought the idea of a trade was to improve your
team.  Granted, Sorrento probably had a better season than Jacoby would have, 
but that was only one of the reasons listed above as to why this was of such
great magnitude.  You seem to think this was a great trade because of how
much it hurt Minnesota.  Truthfully, I think any GM would have traded Sorrento
for two young pitching prospects.
  
>Cook was better as a starter than in the bullpen, as the Tribe went 15-10
>in games he started.  The jury is actually still out, as Seanez was injured
>all season.  And Cook still gives up the long tater.
>o	Long-term signings of several players, including SP Charles Nagy,
>	2B Carlos Baerga, and C Sandy Alomar - A
>                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

     The only way the long-term signing of Sandy Alomar Jr. can be looked at
as positive is if he signed for next to nothing.  He always seems to be 
injured, and doesn't hit for diddly.  He's better than his back-up, Junior
Ortiz, but that isn't saying much.  The signing of Baerga and Nagy were
very good moves by the mgmnt.

>RG
>
>"Mumble mumble fans in Cleveland mumble mumble baseball mumble 200 hits."
> -  Carlos Baerga, in a radio interview

Steven Kelm    sckelm@vincent1.iastate.edu
From: z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Question about AL position pitchers in batting lineup
Date: 6 Oct 92 08:53:25 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <1992Oct6.030042.10608@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca>, cs902060@ariel.yorku.ca (GEOFFREY E DIAS) writes:
> 
> 
> 	I was looking at the boxscore of the Orioles-Indians game. There
> were three Baltimore pitchers in the batting lineup (although they all had
> pinch hitters batting for them).
> 
> 	What quirk in the rule book brought about this condition? And when
> was the last time this happenned? I noticed that the DH had moved to right
> field. Did this mean that the DH position had to be forfeited and substituted
> with the pitcher's in the lineup?


	It happens at least a couple times a year.
	
	Whenever the player batting in the DH position moves to a fielding
position, that team forfeits the use of the DH for the remainder of the game,
and the pitchers for that team must bat (usually in the slot of the player
whose fielding position was taken by the former DH.

Brandon Cope

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt "Some Guy" Bose)
Subject: Re: AL Rookie of Year Award?
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 07:59:41 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <steph.717804763@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu> steph@cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) writes:
>>The question is Lofton
>>vs. Listach, and it's been repeatedly established that a good SS is more 
>>valuable than a good CF.  Listach isn't a butcher, and Lofton isn't a god.
>
>No argument here.  I'm voting for Listach.  But if it were Andy Van Slyke vs.
>Jose Offerman... :->

...you'd be very surprised next year.  :)  Despite my .sig, I've seen Offerman 
play the last three years.  Frankly, I don't know _what's_ wrong with him in LA.
He was a good shortstop in AAA. (And with Ozzie and Cal being what I'm used to,
that's a fairly strong statement.)  I think that the performance of the Dodger
defense as a whole will improve dramatically if they catch a few breaks.  Oh,
and if they let Hansen go in the expansion draft.  :)  (BTW, has anyone looked
at the range factors at 2B for the Dodgers?  At 5.60, Young is the WORST of
the three...)


-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) * kbos@carina.unm.edu * Make..oh, you know.---
-"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing when it is--
--no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors.  The cause of the other-
---half can be attributed to playing Jose Offerman at short." - John Stuart Mill
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: chriss@sam.amgen.com (Chris Silvester)
Subject: Flame Me! Flame Me! (Was TORONTO BLUE JAYS CLINCHED THE AL EAST!!!!!)
Organization: Amgen
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 19:02:55 GMT

In article <1992Oct04.010724.14700@r-node.gts.org>, shadow@r-node.gts.org (Jay Chu) writes:
> 
> The best team in the American League finally clinches the title.  Now it's
> time to kill Oakland in 4 games and go on to the World Series.
> 
> Because the A's sucks, the Toronto Blue Jays will have little difficulty
> winning the American League title.
> 

Obviously, this man has a flame wish...coming off with a statement like "the
A's sucks" after the incredible year they put together.  I think all of us A's
fans should keep his email address handy and send him our condolences when the
Jays fall...:)


> 
> Great game for Cy Young winner Juan Guzman and MVP Joe Carter!!!
> 

NOT!!!!!!  The Eck could take one or both of those - wait and see...

Chris (I still can't believe Jose is a Ranger) S.
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Sheffield is NL MVP
Date: 27 Sep 92 14:10:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Sep27.141054.1841
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853

In article <17596@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> fzchen@othello.ucdavis.edu writes:
>
>This is why I quit sabremetrics.  Who says OBP is more important than 
>SLG???!!!

Sounds logical.  If you don't like the bathwater, throw out the baby.
Personally I feel that a point of OBP is *slightly* more valuable than
a point of SLG.  But on the Red Sox right now, I think I'd rather have
that point of SLG.  Obviously you need both if you are going to score
runs.

>I think Caminiti vs. Pendleton is simple.

Caminiti is good defensively, while Pendleton is one of the best.  But
offensively, there isn't *that* much of a difference over their
careers.  Caminiti has had three full seasons, hitting .247/.304/.348.
Pendleton has hit .267/.316/.380 over an eight year career.
(Pendleton is two years older.)

Caminiti is having a career year, hitting .350+/.450+ in 459 AB.
Pendleton is hitting .339/.473, but has had 30% more AB.  (That's the
main reason why the R/RBI totals are so different.  Tack on an extra
30%, and Caminiti's totals rise to 79/74, compared to Pendleton's
90/100.)  The rest of the difference?  Pendleton is playing in a *far*
stronger lineup, in a much better offensive park.

IMHO, Caminiti is *close* to having a better offensive year than
Pendleton.  But considering their careers and defense, I think
Pendleton is the clear choice.

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Clemens four Cy Young!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: wwedward@descartes.uwaterloo.ca (Wayne Edwards)
Subject: Re: Attendence figures
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:08:40 GMT

In article <musjndx.718343302@gsusgi1.gsu.edu>, musjndx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Jonathan N. Deitch) writes:
> cs902060@ariel.yorku.ca (GEOFFREY E DIAS) writes:
> 
> >	I just read in the newspaper that the Skydome in Toronto had
> >only 35,000 unsold seats in the entire season! I wonder how many stadiums
> >had this figure for one game?
> 
> Well ... you can bet that it didn't happen in Atlanta this year ... finding
> tickets period was quite interesting ... 3 million + -- Wow !
> 

Toronto... 4.026 million!!  Double WOW!

Wayne
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Citecheck Hell)
Subject: Re: Sandberg v Latest Chicago Tribune Atrocities
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 02:16:38 GMT

In article <6484@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:
>Sorry to follow up my own article, but...
>
>Thus spake genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave):
>>
>>Through yesterday (Sunday 9/27), Big Frank had amassed 296 total bases, with
>>299 times on base (not counting HBP).  With 7 ChiSox games remaining, he looks
>>like a sure thing to become the first player since Mickey Mantle to have
>>back-to-back 300/300 seasons.
>
>Well, Frank decided to end the awful suspense last night, hitting two doubles
>to put him over 300 TB and 300 H+BB simultaneously.
>
>Frank is the first back-to-back 300/300 player since Mantle '56-'57.  He is
>the first back-to-back 300/300 and 100/100 (runs and RBIs) since Musial did
>it in '53-'54.  And he's 24 years old?

That's okay.  The Trib's report of the game mentioned that Puckett
logged his 300th total base for the fourth time in his career.  No mention
of Thomas.

The paper literally gave more coverage to Cesar Cedeno's latest arrest.
Not a single word on Thomas.  At all.
-- 
           .. . . .  .  .   .    .     .     .    .   .  .  . . . ..
          ted frank | thf2@midway.uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers
         the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637