HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rbeckham@bnr.ca (Rick Beckham)
Subject: Re: DCI championship rings
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx.
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 19:11:00 GMT


  Re: the discussion on individuals and Cadets.

  When I marched with Garfield in '80, I had to fight with Hopkins to let
  me go out for Individuals. He once told me that people who go out for
  individuals were assholes, and his reasoning was 'people who go out for
  I are self-centered' (cared more for personal glory over advancing the group).
  Also, he believed there should be no strong or weak players (I know, this
  is a pipe dream), that everyone should have the same abilities.
From: hakari@lars.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (The Conformist Contrabass Clarinetist)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: Possible Shows for 93
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:55:26 GMT
Organization: St. Olaf College; Northfield, MN

>Cavies are doing Heroes Lost and Fallen (middle) and Ron Nelson's Morning
>Alleluia (closer).  As of yet they have no opener.



	Is the "Morning Alleluia" also known (longer title) as
	"Morning Alleluias For the Winter Solstice"?  With the
	rather interesting spacial notation at the beginning
	(at least in the band transcription) ?  


-- Crazy-bass-clarinet-hands


P.S.  Anyone out there marching Cadets this coming year?  If so, look
      for Kerry in pit...Hi Ker!
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: jvbutera@grad04.math.ncsu.edu (Jeffrey V. Butera)
Subject: Re: Snare Technology
Organization: NCSU Mathematics Dept.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 13:02:56 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.042551.17641@vela.acs.oakland.edu> bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu (HALLS BRADLEY F) writes:

[much chop-chop about snare and head technology...]

*I have been teaching lines using these heads since they first came out
*and haven't experienced any problems yet, but there's always a first
*time. I am actually alot more concerned about damage to young people's
                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
*hearing created by exposure to high volume levels for such a long time.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Has anybody tried to march or at least practice with earplugs?  This may sound
a little odd, however, I did it for two seasons.  Once you get used to the reduced
sound level, you can actually hear "better".  IE: I marched cymbals and the sound
was annoying if not painful at times.  After I got used to earplugs, when the
snare did any warm-up involving a roll, I could easily point to a single person
who wasn't with the rest of the line-even if they were pretty close in matching
the dittles.  It seems the earplugs "weed out" the garbage or misc sound and
(IMHO) I found I could focus on what I wanted to hear much better....

(But they're NOT good for marching slow pieces where the drum major is giving
very quiet commands.... :)
 



-- 
Jeff Butera                 DISCLAIMER: I claim absolutely nothing.
Math Graduate Student
N.C. State University       "Still looking for a witty quote." 
jvbutera@math.ncsu.edu                              -Brad Halls
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: rdorocke@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (rob lawrence dorocke)
Subject: Read Me, I have Information.
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 01:36:00 GMT

This is my firdt posting on any of these newsgroups, so it might be alittle msy.
Beear with me, please.
Bear with me, plaese.(please)

The correct spelling of SCV's new director is Len Kruszecki.  He has been
working for star for the last few years.  Before that he worked with SCV.

I have heard from many sources (8 friends in Star() that Star's music next
year will be :
		Medea's Dance of Vengeance
		Adagio for Strings
		School for Scndal
all by Samuel Barber.

I also heard that the Cadets are doing something else by Havid Holsinger.

Did anyone catch David St.Angel flicking off the judges when Phantom
was called in 8th place.  Look for him right bekhind the percussion
arc.  Its great!!

I hope I didn't repeat anything that was said before I finally figured out how
to work with the newsgroups.

Oh well, bye

Rob
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu (HALLS BRADLEY F)
Subject: Re: Snare Technology
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 01:51:08 GMT

In article <1dm3kcINN2fp@bigboote.WPI.EDU> ddm@wpi.WPI.EDU (David D Marshall) writes:

>>>sound, and not nearly as good a sound (IMHO). The top heads are so hard now
>>>that the air in the drum is barely deflected enough to snap the bottom head
>>>at all. This results in a very high pitched, short, shallow sound that 
>>>sounds great from 10 feet away, but doesn't project well at all. So in a
>                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>I think that saying the drum doesn't project well is not a totally acurate
>statement.  I do believe that you get a richer sound from a plastic head,
>but not sound quality or projection.  Projection comes from the player and
>how he plays the drum.  In the times that I've played with Nick Angelas,
>we can be using plastic, mylar, or skins and his projection and sound quality
>is unbelievable.  The reason is style, not head selection.  That is why
>you hear lines with poor sound quality and little projection (even in some 
>'top' lines).  Listen to SCV in '88 when they have these exposed flam drags.
>The quality of sound is increadable, and I believe they used Falams.  This
>phenomena can be heard in recent years also.

I respectfully disagree, and let me tell you why:

  1. The harder the top head is, the less air in the drum will be
     displaced, and the less the bottom head and snares will move.
     (Note that this does not mean that terrible sounding drums are
     always the loudest. A very loose top head will not move much 
     air, either.)

  2. You're not going to be able to tell anything by listening to
     a single player, from a reletively short distance.

  3. I have heard plenty of absolutely terrible lines that I could
     hear with no problems (unfortunately) and a lot of good ones 
     (Vanguard included) that I wish I could hear better. I agree
     that they sounded great that year, but could you hear them
     in the upper decks?

Just MHO, of course...

>We had one or two snares who had wrist problems that they attributed to
>the Falams.

I have seen many people with wrist problems using silver dots, also.

--Brad.

-- 
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
Brad Halls                                "Still looking for witty quote."
Oakland University                         -me    
Rochester, Michigan
bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu

^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: st891425@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (Andrew Weiskopf)
Subject: Marching to HOLSINGER?
Reply-To: st891425@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 07:00:03 GMT

How does one march to David Holsinger's work? With all those time changes,
someone had better keep an ambulance on duty!

Seriously, has anyone included Nilesdance or Liturgical Dances in a show?
They are both incredible pieces of orchestration...


-Andrew Weiskopf
 ST891425@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu (Robert W Berry)
Subject: Re: St.Angel and the Bird
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 03:58:55 GMT

bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu (HALLS BRADLEY F) writes:

>In article <1992Nov11.051749.22419@hubcap.clemson.edu> rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu (Robert W Berry) writes:

>>Then the kids who marched in Phantom grew up and started teaching other
>>kids the same way.  But generally, IMHO, it doesn't take long for the
>>teacher or the students to burn out in an environment like that.

>Man, is this ever true. (Are you sure you never marched PR, Bob?) :-)
>It just goes to show that you teach how you are taught, and the staff
>and the kids DID burn out quickly.

Well, I didn't march in PR, but I *did* march in corps that competed
against them or stayed with them for several years.  We also had several
staff members that had marched PR, and they were *real* slave drivers.

(Once we were "rolling for doubles", which meant that if a 25-count roll
phased out you rolled a 49-count roll, etc.  When one of the snares just
freaked out and swung his snare around his back and punched out the
instructor.  What make this so funny is that he wasn't booted from the
corps because the rest of the drum staff figure the snare instructor had
it coming.)

I've also worked band camps with people from PR and this
work-until-you-get-it mentality has been almost universal.

>Where did you march?

I marched in the Belleville Black Knights from 1977-1982 and in the
Suncoast Sound in 1985.  (It was in Suncoast that I found out how
snotty people from another corps can be.  We beat PR all season long
with the exception of DCI East.  I congratulated a PR horn player on
beating us - I know this sounds strange, but that's just how Suncoast
was - and he got a shitload of his friends and jumped in my face about
how we "were going down".  This is a large part of the reason Suncoast
rejoiced when Spirit beat PR at finals.  Truly, this is one of my only
bad memories of drum corps.)

I also marched in the University of Mississippi band from 1982-1987 and
the Clemson University band from 1989-1991.

When did you march exactly Brad?

Later,
Bob

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=- Bob Berry -=- Net-Guru's Inc.        ! rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu   -=-
-=- Teach them quick, before they think. ! 803-654-7623 || 803-656-1076 -=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: cneal@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Chris Neal)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Troopers in trouble??
Date: 10 Nov 92 06:26:16 GMT
Reply-To: cneal@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Chris Neal)
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: cneal@doc.cc.utexas.edu

Hi all!

This is just a rumor, and I wanted to see if anyone knows anything about it.
I heard that Troopers are OVER $100,000.00 in debt after this past season. 
Can anyone confirm/deny this??

If this is true, how can a corps possibly overcome a debt this big?? I noticed 
that Sky Ryders have gone into the catering business to try to pay off their
debt, but I don't think it's anywhere near 100 grand.

Oh well, just curious. I really hope it was just an exaggeration.

Chris

Organization: Senior, Civil Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Date: Thu,  5 Nov 1992 17:51:54 -0500 
From: David James Foremsky <df1y+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Judging standards

Hello, all.

I am doing a research paper on judging standards and whether or not the
change from the tick system to the build-up system made changes in the
types of shows we are now seeing.

I would like any commentary possible on this topic (no flames, please, I
am looking for reasonable discussion). I am also looking for a way to
contact Jay Kennedy, who, I believe, is head of judging right now.
Finally, I would like a copy of any judging "manuals" from the tick era
and build-up era (Donald, do you have these?)

please, _please_ do not clog the net with this - send email to
df1y+@andrew.cmu.edu or snail mail to:
David Foremsky
816 Ivy St., Apt. #2
Pittsburgh, PA 15232

  If there is enough interest, I'll post the text when the paper is done.

thank you very, _very_ much.
David Foremsky

Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: afo@apollo.HP.COM (Aaron Oppenheimer)
Subject: Re: DCI championship rings
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:59:01 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

In article <Bx9sqp.DIo@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, timm@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Timm Knoerzer) writes:
|>  believe that Rick Wygant marched all four of those years in the soprano line
|>  therefore, he would have earned four rings. 

Ah yes, ol' Chicken Legs. ("Don't call me that, man!")

|>  By the way a hello to Aaron
|>  Oppenheimer.  You may not remember me---marched sop '86 and '87.

Hi Timm!


-Aaron

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Aaron Oppenheimer                             Multimedia Technology Lab
                         "Please Be Fabulous"
Hewlett Packard Co.                                      Chelmsford, MA
=-=-=-=-=-=  I can hardly speak for myself, much less HP. =-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: Trojan Band busted
From: bthomas@nim.gac.edu (Barbara L Thomas)
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:19:45 -0600

In article <17187390@um.cc.umich.edu>  writes:
> Here is something an anonymous fellow Bruin sent me:
>  
>  ________________________________________________________________
>  
>  Subject: Trojan Band busted
>  
>  I have it on good authority:  the u$c band is in serious trouble for 
>  publishing a songbook containing vulgar and politically incorrect  
songs,
>  just like the one's we used to sing ("You can tell, by the smell...").
>  
>  You may have heard that a few months ago, someone sent a copy of a UCLA
>  fraternity songbook to the administration, and the assorted deans came
>  down very hard on them.  The Daily Bruin talked about how people were
>  very upset about these songs that "glorified mutiliation" and  
"advocated
>  drinking to excess".  In this sensitive era of political correctness, 
>  these were very serious charges. 
>  
>  Well, apparently someone sent a copy of the trojan band songbook to the
>  Daily Trojan, and the shit has hit the fan.  The administration is so
>  upset that they are considering not letting the band travel to the Bay
>  Area for the Stanford game this weekend.  This would, of course, be a 
>  welcome relief to the long suffering Stanford fans.  In addition, those
>  of us who choose to watch the game on TV would not not be subjected to
>  the incessant, repetitive droning of the only-know-three-chords  
knee-jerk
>  marching warriors of the antichrist.
>  
>  Good riddance, if true... 

Yeah, there's been a few kind of funny things going on but, I hate to  
inform you, the Trojans left today for Stanford.  As my brother is member  
of the band, I've had some pretty close contact with what is going on down  
there.  Only certain people in band are in any kind of serious trouble but  
the administration did kind of blow things way out of proportion.  But  
they seemed to have worked out some sort of compromise and the Trojans  
will be at the game.  Sorry!  :)  My brother's not quite as bummed as you  
are of course. :)

--
Barbara L. Thomas
"The World may never know."
bthomas@nic.gac.edu
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: Madison Tryouts
From: bthomas@perdita.gac.edu (Barbara L Thomas)
Date: 11 Nov 92 19:37:34 -0600

In article <mtymp10.721506980@staff.tc.umn.edu>  writes:
> Is there a number I can call or an address to write to to get  
information
> about tryouts for Madison?
> 
> -- 
>  
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 
-=-
> Shannon Robert Madsen / Calculite  |  mtymp10@staff.tc.umn.edu
> "To err is human; to moo, bovine." | 
>  
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 
-=-
Hey Guys!  Do you remember when I asked this same question and started the  
thread about the one and only female in Madison Scouts?  Well, this is the  
friend that I was asking for.  Somebody help him out huh? :)  
--
Barbara L. Thomas
"The World may never know."
bthomas@nic.gac.edu
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: gordons@CS.ColoState.EDU (vahl scott gordon)
Subject: composer
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1992 00:03:07 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado State University

Someone asked for this sometime ago:

  The composers of "Chinatown" (VK,1987) were Schwartz/Jerome.

(according to one of my old Jack Teagarden records)

Scott

Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: sastoen@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Susan Stoen)
Subject: Curt Huston where are you?
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1992 23:14:39 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

Has anyone seen or heard anything of Curt Huston?  He marched in
Blue Stars in 1981 and 1982;  he later marched with Scouts
for a couple of summers.

Please email any info that is out there--please don't post a response.

Thanks.

--Sue Stoen           email:  sastoen@lamar.colostate.edu

*********** 'I've been dead before'  -Spock, Star Trek VI ************

Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu (Robert W Berry)
Subject: Re: Snare Technology
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 05:04:55 GMT

R.Vincent.Lamb@um.cc.umich.edu writes:

>That was the Seneca Optimists (Which the Anaheim Kingsmen called
>"Bananaheim" :-).  They used them in '77 for their "West Side
>Story" show.  They may also have used them in '76 and '78--

I thought that Senaca folded before the 1978 season.  I always wanted to
see what they did with "The Sorceror and the Latin".  I must be
confused.

>I marched with in in 1978 Anaheim Kingsmen.

Well, maybe this is a few years late, but I really think you got one of
the biggest screwings ever in 1978.  I saw you at DCI Midwest and
thought you were top-8 for sure.  It must have been a truly
dissappointing 13th place.

I always felt that not making finals in 1978 was a big part of Anaheim's
demise.

Later,
Bob

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=- Bob Berry -=- Net-Guru's Inc.        ! rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu   -=-
-=- Teach them quick, before they think. ! 803-654-7623 || 803-656-1076 -=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: cneal@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Chris Neal)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: TX Bands 3A/5A results
Date: 10 Nov 92 06:45:42 GMT
Reply-To: cneal@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Chris Neal)
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: cneal@doc.cc.utexas.edu

I know this is alt.DRUMCORPS, but until we have an avenue for marching bands,
here are the 3A and 5A Texas State Finals results if anyone is interested.

3A

1. Brownfield
2. Robinson
3. Denver City
4. Fredericksburg
5. Pearsall

5A

1. Spring
2. Westfield
3. Pearland
4. Duncanville
5. Haltom 

A few brief notes:
--Westfield beat Spring at MBA Regionals on OCT. 17 by .5 points. Westfield is
preparing for a performance at the Midwest National Band and Orchestra Clinic in Chicago the first week in December. Hmmm...not much time to put together a
great concert performance. It seemed like they have been inside rehearsing, 
because their drill was not as clean as before.

--Duncanville, with 385 members, proved that bigger is not necessarily better!

--If I hear another H.S. band rip off the Phantom Regiment '89 show note for
note ever again, I'm going to barf! I used to love that show, but I've heard
so many high schools trying to be drum corps that it has ruined it for me, and
that show seems to have been stolen the most. BAND DIRECTORS PLEASE STOP!!!!


Does anyone have MBA finals results, or the Oklahoma O.B.A. 4A/5A results??
E-mail or post. Please don't flame for the MB talk--the season is over 
anyway. thanks.

chris
From: bjh42543@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Brian J. Haag)
Subject: Re: Drum Corps Alias?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 06:06:25 GMT

S
SCV's new director is going to be Lynn Kreschecki.  I have no idea how
to spell that.  This came from pretty reliable sources.

Brian J. Haag
bjh42543@uiuc.edu
bhaag@nyx.cs.du.edu

Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu (HALLS BRADLEY F)
Subject: Re: St.Angel and the Bird
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 01:24:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.051749.22419@hubcap.clemson.edu> rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu (Robert W Berry) writes:

>Back in the '70's the kids from Phantom were always bitching that they
>rehearsed so hard when BD had time for days off and such.  But the staff
>at BD had an incredible way of cleaning their show in that they would
>identify the cause of the problem, and not address the symptoms.   (Which
>was what Phantom did at the time.)

I think that this is still largely true. (It certainly was in the early to
mid '80s when I marched.) To give them credit, though, they have had lots
of major staff changes this year, and seem to be at least trying to clean
up their act.

>Then the kids who marched in Phantom grew up and started teaching other
>kids the same way.  But generally, IMHO, it doesn't take long for the
>teacher or the students to burn out in an environment like that.

Man, is this ever true. (Are you sure you never marched PR, Bob?) :-)
It just goes to show that you teach how you are taught, and the staff
and the kids DID burn out quickly.

>(All of this is not meant to offend you, Brad.  These are just personal
>observations that I had while marching against Phantom night after
>night.)

None taken. Just remember, however bad it may have looked from the
outside, it was actually much worse. :-) Where did you march?

--Brad.


-- 
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
Brad Halls                                "Still looking for witty quote."
Oakland University                         -me    
Rochester, Michigan
bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu

^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
From: R.Vincent.Lamb@um.cc.umich.edu
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: Anaheim Kingsmen
Date: 12 Nov 1992 11:52:52 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

I received the following message from Flip.  So that I don't have
to answer this question from all of you, I'm posting it to the
news group.
 
In Message <17361312@um.cc.umich.edu>, flip@cgrg.ohio-state.edu
wrote (Re: Anaheim Kingsmen):
 
|>Out of curiosity, when did you march with NS? 
 
Here is my marching history:
 
El Camino Real H. S. (1975-1977)  Los Angeles City Band and Drill Team
(Woodland Hills, CA)              Champions (1976 and 1977)
 
Royal Cavaliers Youth Band (Van Nuys, CA)(1976-1977)
 
UCLA Band (1977-1981)    (I was guard instructor 1979-1981)
 
Anaheim Kingsmen (1978)  (The less said, the better!)
 
North Star (1979, 1981)  (I skipped 1980 to go to summer field camp,
                          required for my major--Geology).
 
If anyone is keeping track of the marching backgrounds of
alt.drumcorps readers (this was a proposed topic on "Off-the-Line"), 
please archive this.
 
Vince
 
P. S. Hey, Flip, are you in the Buckeye Band?
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu (HALLS BRADLEY F)
Subject: Re: snare Technology
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 01:31:20 GMT

In article <17355467@um.cc.umich.edu> R.Vincent.Lamb@um.cc.umich.edu writes:

>As for MSU's percussion section, congratulations!  It is fearsome
>and well-respected by Michigan's band.  Several UM band members
>(including the past and current drum majors) are or were students
>of mine and they thought it was quite an accomplishment for UM's
>drum line to even be close to MSU's!  I didn't know that there
>was a college division at MBA.  Who went and what were the scores? 

Actually, I saw UM's drumline this year and they are much improved.
I know the guy that teaches them...Greg Minano. Ever heard of him?
There were only 3 college lines at the MBA perc. competition this
year. I think MSU won handily, and I don't know who the other 2 lines
were.

--Brad.



-- 
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
Brad Halls                                "Still looking for witty quote."
Oakland University                         -me    
Rochester, Michigan
bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu

^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^