HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: steve@yogi.hsc.ucalgary.ca
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Ethical Question
Date: 6 Nov 92 15:08:02 MDT

In article <1992Oct30.113316.2018@yogi.hsc.ucalgary.ca>, steve@yogi.hsc.ucalgary.ca writes:
> In article <Bwv337.Izx@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, hoff@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Wildfire) writes:
>> My friend wants to get a dog.  A puppy to be exact.  At least he wants
>> one from the humane society and not from a pet store, but I believe that's
> 
> (a lot of very valid concerns deleted)
> 
>> a puppy......)  I don't want this to be just another spur of the moment,
>> do it on a whim type of thing.  Whims tend to be outgrown or left behind,
>> and it would just break my heart.
>> 
>> -Lisa
>> owned by: Reluctant Warlock (Locker), TJ, and my new kitty Tia.
> 
> I want to get the nets feelings on something.....
> 
> If this gentleman got a pup from the the pound and say it was a pup that WAS
> going to be put down the very next day, do you think "even if it didn't work
> out, at least this pup had a chance and its life was extended a little bit
> longer" or are you from the school of thought that thinks "its better the pup
> be put down than possibly be neglected"?


I'm the original poster of this question.  I just realized it was "flame war
prone" and that is why no-one has responded.  I didn't mean it to be.  I am
curious as to what people's opinions are and why.  I don't really have an
opinion on this yet.  Thats why I'm asking.  To get input from both sides.

I did get one response (for the "better to be put down" side) that was VERY
interesting.

I suggest that anyone who would like to state their opinion, send it to me via
e-mail and I'll post a summary without naming any names.  That way, no flame
war. :-)

-- 
[*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*]
[*]                                 [*]                                 [*]
[*]    Steve Hocevar                [*]                ravecoH evetS    [*]
[*]    Calgary, Alberta, Canada     [*]     adanaC ,atreblA ,yraglaC    [*]
[*]                                 [*]                                 [*]
[*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*]
From: kkeating@acsu.buffalo.edu (Kelly Anne Hinkle)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: How do you strip shedded fur?
Date: 8 Nov 92 16:54:38 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci

In article <25471@sybase.sybase.com> joe@bulldog.sybase.com (Joseph Weinstein) writes:
>
>I find myself imagining coating him with hot wax and
>when it cools, I pull off great sheets off with pounds
>of loose fur coming with it!

Uhh....I wouldn't exactly recommend this one....  :)

However, I will suggest a Shed-n-Blade.  It looks almost like a saw, bent in a
loop and secured with a leather handle.  It's metal with a bunch of tiny
little teeth on the bottom, and smooth on the top.  This thing is the best
instrument I've ever tried in getting loose hair off of dogs.  Try it and let
me know how it works!  If it doesn't, although I can't imagine why it
wouldn't, you always have the waxing idea to fall back on.  :)

Kelly
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: jeffp@wsuaix.csc.wsu.edu (Jeff Parke;S10000)
Subject: Re: Is fur insulation from the sun?
Organization: Washington State University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 03:54:28 GMT

In article <25317@sybase.sybase.com> karenp@sybase.com (Karen Paulsell) writes:
>In trying to compare different dogs and their coats, heat tolerance,
>etc., there would certainly be a lot more factors than hair color,
>length, and texture in determining whether a foray into the sun would 
>overheat a dog! But...I remember, vaguely, some interesting
>tidbit from long ago reading.
>
>Ever wonder about the hair and coloration of the polar bear? And then
>the panther? If black absorbs heat, and warms, and white reflects, and
>cools, aren't these animals the wrong colors?  Wouldn't the
>warm-climate black panther over-heat? While the polar bears color is
>good camouflage in his climate, wouldn't a darker color help warm him
>up?
>

My Newfoundland's coat gets pretty hot on the outside in summer, but isn't
so near the skin.

As to polar bears, those hairs are hollow, with the inner tube being of just
the right diameter to be a light guide for the sun's energy.  The hair
actually absorb heat very efficiently by this means.

---------------------
Jeff Parke <jeffp@vcs10.vetmed.wsu.edu>
also:   jeffp@WSUVM1.bitnet     CIS: 71511,1512    AOL: JeffParke
Washington State University College of Veterinary Medicine class of 1994
Pullman, WA  99164-7012
From: liza@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Liza Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: lab rescue info (finally!)
Date: 5 Nov 1992 23:24:14 GMT
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
NNTP-Posting-Host: pangea.stanford.edu

Here is the Lab Rescue information for the Bay Area:

415/592-8394
Lorrie Bellows is the Coordinator.


--
Liza Lee Miller         My dogs are labradorable!     liza@pangea.stanford.edu
Cibola Labradors            Field * Show * Fun                    415/326-5309
Cibola's Misty Mountain Hop--Hopper                   Mistypoint Kashmir--Kash
	            Campbellcroft Cibola Rosette -- Rosie
From: baskin@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: TATOOING DOGS
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:23:29 GMT
Reply-To: baskin@watson.ibm.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.14n by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM

>Has anyone had their dog tattooed.  I was wondering whether it is painful
>and how long does it take.

We've done it.  One of our dogs was crying and whimpering.  But she 
started complaining even before the needle touched her.  It didn't get
any worse once it started.  I think she just didn't like the sound.

It just takes about five minutes per dog.  You have to remember to 
shave their tattoos periodically to keep it visible.  On our husky, her
coat is so thick that if we let it go the tattoo gets hard to find.  We
start debating which leg it was on!

Mat Baskin
From: walls@inland.com
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: security gates
Date: 11 Nov 92 11:07:02 CST
Organization: Inland Steel Company; East Chicago, IN

Does anyone have a name and phone number of a company that sells tall
security gates? Our minature dachshund can jump a 32"one very easy.
Most gates I seen are only 32" high. I looked in R.C. Steele, Wholesale Pet,
Foster & Smith, Omaha Vaccine, Jeffers, and Wholesale Veterinary catalogs,
and I have yet to find one. If you know of any companies please E-mail me.
Thanks for you help.
From: young@alw.nih.gov
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: EUTHANASIA: Winston
Date: 6 Nov 1992 06:00:54 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <24089@alice.att.com> you write:
|> 
|> 
|> Victoria Vorlop writes:
|> >> Try a method that works: ``The Koehler Method of Dog Training''
|> >> Howell Books.  Remember it's you that's being trained.
|> 
|> 
|> >It may be she that's being trained, but it is also she that is living with
|> >possible canine time bomb.
|> 
|> All the ill-tempered dogs I know are owned by ``nice'' people.
|> I always root for the dog when I see them together.
|> 
|> Biting is a response to incoherent authority;  a dog will with
|> precisely administered bites try to turn the rhetoric, if he can.
|> 
|> I know I'd bite her.

C'mon now, that's not fair.  This woman posted, in good faith, an appeal
for help for a dog who seems to have (the closest thing that I can think
of in human terms would be alzheimer's disease) a very serious illness.

Whatever emotions were provoked by the thought of euthanizing this dog
should be suppressed by you me and everyone else.  She needs helpful 
advice if you can provide any, not backstabbing.

For as much as I love dogs and distrust people, I feel that many of the
people who read this newsgroup feel the same way.  Give them the benefit
of the doubt.
-- 
___________	
	jy
	young@heart.dcrt.nih.gov
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: HELP!!! My puppy bites people like crazy!!!
From: RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg)
Date: 12 Nov 92 09:00:54 EDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Philosophy Dept., Wesleyan University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20In-Reply-To: bradley@riemann.math.mun.ca's message of Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:17:06 GMTLines: 45

In <1992Nov10.201706.27330@cs.mun.ca> bradley@riemann.math.mun.ca writes:

> HELP!!!! I can't get my Black Lab pup to stop biting people!!!

Yes, you can.  Step one is retaining confidence that YOU, not the pup,
ultimately gets to set the rules for behavior in your house, yard, car, etc.
If you come to believe that you "can't" change your pup's behavior, guess who's
going to pick up on that & MAKE it come true?

> He jumps up on you abd bites at your arm and your clothes. I just lost
> a brand new pair of jeans due to him ripping at them.

How old is the pup?  If he's 8 or 10 weeks, he just hasn't learned (yet) that
this is unacceptable bahavior.  Keep correcting him, give him time to grow up &
learn, & wear lots of old clothes for a while.  You might try finding puppy
obedience classes in yr area, too (they start as young as 8 weeks!).

If he's more like 5-6 months old, you have a different problem, which is that
he doesn't realize that you're the pack leader in this particular pack, & he
thinks (or hopes to prove) that HE is.  In this case I'd strongly suggest
finding a professional trainer to help you, as a Black Lab is going to get too
big & too strong to be untrained as an adult.

> Try to push him away or yell "no" at him doesn't seem to work. He only
> seems to think that means you want to play.

When my puppy was doing this & I asked for net.advice, the best advice I got
was to get a plant-spray bottle full of water & squirt the dog in the face
while abruptly telling him, "NO," whenever he does this.  *Yelling* doesn't
really help, but acting as though you *expect* your "No" to have some effect
actually does help.  Somehow those (amazingly smart!) pups seem to pick up on
whether you *expect* your command to be obeyed or not. (This is called the
Pygmalian Effect in human educational psychology, & is also observed between
human teachers & pupils).

One last bit of advice:  If your puppy is still quite young, he really does
need some time to grow up (his brain & central nervous system mature, etc.),
which does *NOT* mean that you shouldn't correct his unacceptable behavior yet,
but it *DOES* mean that it will take him longer to learn what you want now than
it will (say) a year from now.  Patience, & firm guidance, & old clothes...


------------------------
Ruth Ginzberg <rginzberg@eagle.wesleyan.edu>
Philosophy Department;Wesleyan University;USA
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 23:40:49 -0500 
From: Benedicta Gray <bg13+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Cairn Terrier Info. Needed
Distribution: usa

On Cairns, from having one,and having read about the breed in various
"dog encyclopedias": very funny, energetic, alert (maybe slightly
inclined to announce the presence of a squirrel that nobody else can
detect...), physically very tough, outright invigorating as an
"acquaintance". Takes easily to the leash, more easily some write, than
any other terrier, also: good city-dog, ours can do with a very short
walk, in case that matters..., supposedly able to learn to do tricks -
ours doesn't - gets along well with other dogs (supposedly unlike
Westies in this respect), ours - 9 lbs - has sufficient authority to
hold her turf against an older 80 lbs. mongrel "brother", and shows good
wrestling talents in contact with slightly bigger dogs. 
  I would certainly get another one - or two. Good luck with your choice!
From: trimpe_b@wums.wustl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: RE: Lyme disease shots a good idea?
Date: 10 NOV 92 12:21:18 GMT
Organization: MIT PLASMA FUSION CENTER
NNTP-Posting-Host: msnews.wustl.edu

In a previous article, maryd@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu (M.Dugan) wrote:
>When Cassi was getting her yearly shots a few weeks ago, the vet
>asked if I wanted him to give her the shot for lyme disease.  I
>decided not to for now; we'll reconsider in the Spring.
> 
>What do you think?  It's not cheap, and if it's not necessary I'd
>rather not.  Although there are lots of deer around the small town we
>live in, she is a total homebody.  She is never in the woods--we get
>our exercise in an empty field behind the house.  The vet said he
>strongly recommends it for dogs that spend time in places where there
>are certain to be deer (e.g., on the riverbank), but he only offers
>it as an option to pups like mine.
> 
>Opinions?

	Hummm We got our dog (3yo lab) vaccinated mostly because we 
often vaction in the Lake of the Ozarks (missouri) which is a high
tick/Lyme area.  If you go roaming, AT ALL(even in a field) w/ or w/o deer
I would get a vaccination.  My vet just told me that there are now THREE
known different species of ticks that carry lyme. I dunno where you are
but I'm in St. Louis which is a "low Lyme area" but we often visit else-
where.  Also how much was the vaccine?  Our vet had to do it in two shots
with an added cost of about 10$.  Not Really cheap but worth it in our
situation..  Maybe your vet is expensive??  
Just my 2cents
BT
From: ml31157@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael Latash )
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Abuse/Animal Rights
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:56:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BxGn5s.2IA
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

Dear Netters:

I have just recently read the post about the Wasington Post article.  What can
I say?  I believe this man was very cruel, and that he deserved to AT LEAST  
be fined for $1000, if not spend some time in jail.  I think anmal abuse is
wrong, despite what the law has to say about it, or chooses to do or not do
about it.
HOWEVER, I strongly disagree that animals have any kind of rights.  I think    
this detracts from the issues.  Animals have absolutely NO  rights!  WE as
HUMAN BEINGS that are supposed to be intelligent (or something) are the ones
with the RESPOSIBILITY AND BURDEN of being kind to animals and taking care of
our environment.  I think that, unpleasant though it may be, animal lab tests
are a necessity--if you disagree, don't you DARE take any more Tylenol, Aspirin,
oops  Aspirin, use shampoo, or makeup, or ANY product out there (even if your
physician prescribes it!) that got on the market and past the FDA through
animal testing!  Keep this in mind:  NO DRUG OF ANY KIND WILL GET PAST THE FDA
WITHOUT AT LEAST 3 (THREE) ANIMAL MODELS THAT THE DRUG PASSES BEFORE IT EVER
EVEN GETS CLOSE TO CLINICAL TRIALS!!!!!!  Usually, the three models are:
1) Mice/Rats; 2)Dogs; 3) Monkeys/Primates.  This HAS to be done because unfortu-
unfortunately we wouldn't have any approved safe and effective drugs on the
market otherwise!  ALL pharmaceutical companies (trust me, I've worked for a
top-noch one for 2 years) use these tests!  Animals have no rights that are
being violated.  We as humans must make sure that these animals (or ANY other
animals) are not in pain, and live without constant suffering.  The drug com-
panies usually say that any pain or disconfort is brief AT LONGEST!
Let me hear your thoughts.  Let me answer your questions.

Dr. Mike, D.V.M.
From: dgm@garnet.berkeley.edu (D.G. Meads)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: How do you fight a race track?
Date: 10 Nov 1992 20:42:52 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <24740065@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> loftis@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk Loftis) writes:
>	Howdy,
>
>	I have heard many people state that dog tracks have their
>problems.  But, I was wondering if they are any different than horse
>tracks.  
>
>	Some people might get angry at a dog in a "kennel" all day
>except for training and racing, but how is this different than a horse
>in a stall all day?  How do they differ?  How are they the same?  Why
>the glorification of horse racing over dog racing?
>
>	I do not have any experience with either, just curious.....
>
>	Kirk
>
>
>|     I think we're about to have a dog track built in my
>| town (...yes....MY town! :> ) and I want to know how to 
>| fight it.  I think that's the most inhumane, asinine thing
>| that civilized people can do.  Well...ok...among the top 10.
> 

I can't believe I'm going to take the bait....but here goes.  But I will try
and keep it short.

Animals, humans and large sums of money are a lousy combination for the 
animals.

To me there is very little difference between the treatment of horses and dogs 
in racing,  the difference comes in "non-racing" life a horse or dog could
expect. 

Obviously your horse doesn't curl up at the end of your bed for a nap.
Maybe your horse brings you the evening paper...but mine doesn't. And my
hounds are lousy at transporting me from point a to point b.  Both animals
are integrated with human life in different ways...one not being any
more valid or necessary than the other.

Well I can't seem to get to the point without sounding like a heel,  so I
won't.  I love horses and I love dogs,  suffice to say racing is for humans
and I hate it.

Like a friend once told me...

How many times a day do you think two horse just decide to run to the other 
side of the pasture just to see who can get to the fence first?

I really wish I hadn't responded, but after all this typing I suppose I'll
post.

Debbie Meads
and Tyre and Sidon (polka-dot greyhounds)
Newsgroups: rec.pets
From: hartman@thorin.cis.udel.edu (Nancy Hartman)
Subject: Re: FERRET intestinal blockages
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Distribution: rec
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 05:22:17 GMT

In article <viking.721633808@vincent2.iastate.edu> viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes:

>	WARNING!!!  Rubber products, such as balloon bits possibly left
>about after a child's party, can be injested by ferrets and can block
>the stomach.  Signs are dehydration, a firm belly, skin that does not
>return to normal shape quickly when pinched, and a listless carpet shark.
>Run that Hoover before you let them play.

In case all of you haven't noticed yet, ferrets are *VERY* prone to 
intestinal blockages.  The main culprits are rubber items which 
expand when they come in contact with the digestive juices.  But
just about anything (including their own fur!) can cause a blockage.

I strongly suggest using a laxative (Laxatone, Laxastat, Lax-aire, etc...)
once or twice a week as a preventative (about a 1 ince ribbon of the 
stuff, more if you suspect possible blockage).

Only allow rubber/latex/foam toys under supervision and *throw them away*
at the first sign that pieces are being chewed off.  Brush your ferret
during shedding periods.  And be careful not to leave any "tempting" 
objects around.

And, most importantly, always keep an eye on the litterbox.  Gross as that
may sound, the litterbox is one of the first indications that something
is wrong with your ferret.  Remember, ferrets have an annoying habit of
not acting sick until they are at death's door, so as owners we have to
be keenly aware of our ferrets' behavior patterns, intake & output, and 
sleeping habits.  If there is a change in any of those, we know that we 
should be concerned and check for signs of illness.

- Nancy 
-- 
Nancy Hartman					CIS graduate student
hartman@udel.edu				U. of Delaware
        President and founder, Delaware Valley Ferret Club
                      Owner of Percy & Bree
From: sbp2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SARA BETH PIWOWAR)
Newsgroups: rec.pets
Subject: let's talk cows
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:47:12 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

COWS make great pets; everyone should check this out.
Newsgroups: rec.pets
From: lkc9240@rigel.tamu.edu (CLUISS, LINDA KAY)
Subject: Guinea Pigs
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:26:00 GMT


I have two guinea pigs that are extremely cute.  The first and oldest is named B.B
B.B.(five months).  The younger one (three months) is named Patches.  B.B. is
a bouncing baby girl while Patches is a male.  For the past couple of months,
I have been trying to breed them with little success.  I just wanted to know 
if there is anyone out there that has had a similar situation.  B.B. is a
white and brown Dutch cavy.  Patches is an English Tortie.  Both get along
very well.  And if you are wondering, they have "bred" twice in the past few
months.  Is there anything I can do to help them?  
          Another question that I was wondering about concerns vegetables.  
All they ever eat is carrots, and now they even squeak out in joy when they hear
me cutting one up for them.  The other night, B.B. began squeaking for a carrot.
Of course I gave her one, but I wondering if I should vary their diet.  In the
mornings, I give them some alfalfa hay, and they always have guinea pig 
pellets. They get carrots about four times a week.

Thanks for any response,
Linda K.
From: wd5j@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.pets
Subject: Emergency rabbit question
Date: 5 Nov 92 14:24:08 EST
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University

Hey, all you lagamorph lovers, I have a rabbit behavior question.  I know
bucks urinate on does when they are in heat (the does), and they also
urinate on _us_ if they're not neutered (or even if they are sometimes),
but do does urinate on other rabbits?  I'm working with a student whose
cat mounts her minilop female rabbit (the cat is a neutered male), and at
one point her rabbit leaped in the air (after the requisite 5 minutes of
standing still and taking it) and sprayed urine everywhere.  My impression
is that this was excitement/play or stress, not sexual behavior.  So
what's the answer?  Should I check this rabbit for testicles?

Ilana Reisner
Darwin's vet
From: smt2626@hertz.njit.edu (sylvia m tou mfen stnt)
Newsgroups: rec.pets
Subject: Re: Ferret Feeding
Date: 10 Nov 92 21:43:39 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1dnfd0INNg7h@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> garvey@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (Heather Garvey) writes:
>
>	Yes, I'm asking some newbie questions about ferret feeding. :)
>
>	One book says "Make sure you get the high protein kitten chow
>as opposed to cat chow"
>	One says to alternate cat chow with canned cat food to "cut down
>on protein intake".
>	What gives? Do they need the 35% kitten chow protein or the less-
>than-cat-chow protein?
>

Ferrets specifically needs high animal protein.  Many/most cat foods
that you buy from the store may be high in protein but it is mostly
vegetable protein which the ferrets cannot really digest as well.
READ THE INGREDIENTS!  Look for animal protein like chicken.  
I recommend IAMS kitten food or Science Diet (personally my ferret
hates Science Diet).  If it is a young ferret (kit) you may also now
and then (not too often) subsidize the food with mink pellets which
is about 40% animal protein.  As for feeding canned cat food, I will
let you hear from all the other more technically informed experts
for their opinions of which you should get plenty of.  In my experience,
my ferret despises meat in any form (except maybe cockroaches); he
prefers bell peppers and bananas.  Hope it helps.

-- sylvia
Newsgroups: rec.pets
From: rnakkula@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Robin J Nakkula)
Subject: Re: Rat Teeth...
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 19:43:34 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.053315.6989@sarah.albany.edu> sarah@albnyvms.bitnet writes:
>bones.  One daym, I saw him choking and had to give him the
>Heimlich maneuver and out popped a piece of bone.  It's funny in
>a sick kind of way to imagine giving it to a rat, but I had
>no difficulkty - I hjust used the heel of my hand ad and popped him
>under the ribs.  He looksed kind of surprised, but MUCH happier.
>Sarah

It most likely saved his life.  I've been told that rats can't regurgitate
(excuse me, "vomit."  I forget for the moment which other animals lack this
ability.)

Although, if one of my rats gets too impetuous when I proffer peanut butter,
sometimes they "spit it out;" I can't tell how far down the tract the stuff
got.

Sorry for the "not-ready-for-dinnertable" level of the conversation.

@@@---Robin Nakkula