HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: acker@maple.circa.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Hall of Fame voting (read - Disgusted)
Date: 7 Jan 93 14:19:02 GMT
Reply-To: ACKER@oak.circa.ufl.edu
Organization: University of Florida - CIRCA

Okay folks.. press (N) now or forever hold your peace...

Waaaaaaaaaaay back, during a frightful period in my life (a.k.a. High School),
I got a crazy idea in my head that I was going to be a journalist.  More
specifically, a sportswriter.  I figured, hey, I'd travel across the country,
see loads and loads of baseball games, join the BBWAA, win a pulitzer prize,
and be elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame.  Not too bad of a plan, eh?
Well reality set in (in the form of the UF Journalism school) and I switched to
my current aspiration, which is sports information.
Still, though, a part of me wants to attain some of those earlier goals.
Like joining the BBWAA (BaseBall Writers of America Association for those of
you still reading).  And why do I want to join that association?
BECAUSE THE CURRENT MEMBERS ARE IGNORANT, STUPID, GENERAL WASTES OF BRAIN
TISSUE THAT HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE ABOUT THE SPORT OF BASEBALL.
Well, most of them anyway.  How can 35% of the members of the BBWAA choose NOT
to elect a man who won 318 games in his career, struck out more than 3500
batters, threw a no-hitter and became the oldest player ever to throw a shutout?
And most of this for perhaps the worst team of the 1970's?
I'll tell you why.  Prejudice.  Ignorance.  A closed-minded view that thinks
anyone who isn't named Babe or Cy should NOT be voted into the Hall of Fame
anymore because it's too big already.  Remember -- these guys also voted Kirk
Gibson as NL MVP in 1988.
Phil Niekro deserves to be in the hall of fame.  Period.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Chad 'Mr.B' Jackson - "And they'll never see the likes of us again. . ."     -
- Perry Field Veteran -    -- Genesis, "Driving The Last Spike"                -
- And A Darn Nice Guy ----------------------------------------------------------
- Saints & Blue Jays, a Match made in Heaven (Or at least Gainesville, Fla.)   -
- Gator Baseball '93, Best Darn Scoreboard Graphics This Side Of DiamondVision -
- tcj@math.ufl.edu *OR* acker@maple.circa.ufl.edu - Phil for HOF in *sigh* '94 -
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Any news on Frankie Rodriguez?
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:33:07 GMT

In article <kbanaian.142.0@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu> kbanaian@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu (King Banaian) writes:
>
>Frankie has indeed converted.  His numbers were 12-7, 3.09 with 148.2 IP, 
>125 H, 65 BB, 129 K.

In Lynchburg, that is.  Promising...

>He unfortunately cannot tell the difference between 14 and 18 year old 
>females.  He apparently was caught in corpus flagrante with the former 
>variety and now faces statutory rape charges.  The (very) young woman was 
>not claiming use of force.  I have not heard if the case has been resolved.

I believe he has pleaded guilty to a lesser charge (corrupting a
minor?).  Something about a year of unsupervised probation and perhaps
a fine?  It shouldn't disrupt his season.

Cheers,
-Valentine

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Robert William Brooks)
Subject: Re: Lists: The Best Players In Baseeball
Reply-To: rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Robert Brooks)
Organization: Swarthmore College
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 05:01:18 GMT

niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gordon Niguma) writes:
> Players Most Likely To Make Big Strides In 1993 
> SP: Denny Neagle (Moving in rotation helps; as does 8.0 K/9ip)
> SP: John Smoltz (possible Cy Young award; perhaps the best of their rotation)
> SP: Pedro Martinez 
> SP: Andy Benes
> SP: Sam Millitello 
> C: Eric Wedge (please play him! Make Gorman look like an idiot...)
> 1B: Jeff Bagwell (if Houston does well he could also win MVP)
> 2B: Bret Barberie (no one can stop him now)
> SS: Wil Cordero (THE young shortstop in the game
> 3B: Gregg Jeffries or Jim THome could surprise  
> CF: Ray Lankford (MVP possibility)
> RF: Phil Plantier (1993 "Sheffield Award")
> 
> 					Gord Niguma
> 					(fav player: John Olerud)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> In Stores Now:
> The brand new album from Gord Niguma, Chris Nantes and Sean Andrews!
> Songs Include: Yesterday My Hamster Died, The Death Of Kirby Puckett,
>                Let Love In, Alcoholic Santa Claus......Get your copy today!

Did anyone else (who cares) notice that three of the players mentioned above
are ex-Red Sox, and very promising ones to boot?  So who did we get in
return?  Larry Andersen, Jose Melendez.  Gotta love them Sox.
-- 
Rob Brooks
rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu

Selig sind, die da Leid tragen, denn sie sollen getrostet werden.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: peirick_j@wums.wustl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Lies about attendance (Was Speculation Of A Coming Orioles Sale)
Date: 5 JAN 93 08:18:14 GMT
Organization: MIT PLASMA FUSION CENTER
NNTP-Posting-Host: msnews.wustl.edu


Earlier, niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) noted that...
> 
>Record attendance, AGAIN, even during a recession, with ever increasing
>ticket prices, and the owners expect us to believe baseball is in trouble.
> 
>If sportswriters had any pretension of being journalists, they'd report
>*these* things, rather than the lies they print.
> 
>(Yes, lies.  I've actually seen sportswriters claiming attendance is down.)

Well, you know, those would not be lies in St. Louis.  We have had declining
attendance for three years now.  I am virtually certain that attendance was down
in LA this year as well.  Others may chime in as they see fit.

Your mileage may vary.  Sweeping generalizations such as Mr. Nieporent's should
be avoided whenever possible.

Jerome Peirick
peirick_j@wums.wustl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mjones@fenway.aix.kingston.ibm.com (Mike Jones)
Subject: Re: Jeff Russell????
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 15:55:59 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu (Michael Silverman) writes:
: Any news on where he is going to end up?
: 
: I can't believe nobody would want a proven relief pitcher capable
: of 35+ saves and a 1.x ERA.....Boston???

Word in last Sunday's Globe is that the Sox were flying him in for a
physical. If he passed, they were going to make him an offer. Otherwise,
they're probably going to go with bullpen-by-committee using Ken Ryan, Greg
Harris, Bankhead and Melendez. With a good manager this could probably be
pretty effective, but Butch Hobson so far hasn't shown that he could manage
a pitcher of warm beer.

   Mike Jones  |  AIX/ESA Development  |  mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com

If you must fight, fight to win.  Draws are losses.
From: steinman@me.utoronto.ca (David Steinman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Jays and Schofield  (was Re: Jays will repeat!!!)
Date: 10 Jan 93 17:29:58 GMT
Organization: UofT Mechanical Engineering

In article <1993Jan9.050806.22234@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca>, maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
> Alfredo Griffin has resigned with the "best" team in baseball.
> 
> 93 WS is now in the bag.

Why does the signing of Fredo ensure another WS?  He is a good influence
(especially on Guzman), but he will not replace Lee.  Today's Toronto Sun
reports the Jays close to signing Dick Schofield (ex Met) to a 1 year
contract.  The article also notes that Zosky is now out of favour, and 
20 year old Alex Gonzalez is the shortstop of the future (1 or 2 years
away).
--
Dave!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen)
Subject: Re: Astros Contenders?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 20:15:06 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.181742.14453@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, stesmith@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Smith) writes:
|> 
|> Now that the Oilers' season is painfully over, and the Rockets
|> have leveled off to .500, Houston sports fans must be turning
|> hopefully to the Astros. Anyone out there have some predictions
|> regarding the fate of the 'Stros in 1993? The more outlandish
|> the better.

Up until today, I was thinking that the Astros were going to do pretty well
this year. 

Today I heard that they had signed Jose Uribe.

|> Steve Smith

Now the real issue we have to contend with is: What are we going to do with
two Steve Smiths in r.s.bb?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              If you're really hip, the passing years will show.
                                           ......Tower Of Power

  paula@koufax.cv.hp.com   Paul Andresen  Hewlett-Packard  (503)-750-3511

    home: 3006 NW McKinley    Corvallis, OR 97330       (503)-752-8424
                            A SABR member since 1979
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cmeyer@warp.Stanford.EDU (Craig Meyer)
Subject: Re: American League West (Was Re: The Minnesota Twins)
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 23:35:08 GMT

Steven F. Hubbard (sfh@po.CWRU.Edu) wrote:

: In a previous article, sckelm@iastate.edu (Steven C Kelm) says:

: >KC: Cone, Appier, Picardo, Gubiza, ?

:   I think Gordon's the next guy.  Good rotation.

Probably not Gordon, because everyone except Flash thinks he is a better
reliever than he is a starter.  Mark Gardner is probably going to be the
other starter.

KC has a bunch of other people that could start, including Luis Aquino,
Chris Haney, Rick Reed, Ed Pierce, and Dennis Rasmussen.  
Mike Boddicker, Bill Sampen, and Mike Magnante also started some last year,
although I hope it won't happen again this year.  Some of these guys better
have options remaining, or KC will be dumping pitchers left and right at the
end of spring training.  (I wonder if the Yankees will take two or three of
these spare starters in exchange for Tartabull?  How about if KC throws in
Brian McRae and Chris Gwynn?)

--Craig
From: rinehart@aramis.rutgers.edu (Mark J. Rinehart)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Hall of Fame voting (read - Disgusted)
Date: 8 Jan 93 16:06:28 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <C0Is3E.KAw@news.cso.uiuc.edu> lbarnes@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Laura L. Barnes) writes:

> I still can't believe Reggie Jackson made it and Phil Niekro AND
> Steve Garvey (OK, he's marginal, but less so than Jackson IMHO)
> didn't.  I think that GArvey was better in all areas of the game
> including 'intangibles' than Jackson. Whsat did Reggie ever do well
> except mouth off to the press, appear in 1970's and early 1980's TV
> shows, have a candy bar named after him, fight with Billy  
> MArtin, and hit home runs in the post-season?  (I'm not a big fan of 

Well, I seem to recall that he played for 20 years - something that
speaks volumes about his ability to play the game. He was part of the
back-to-back WS Champion Yankees in 77 and 78. He hit 3 HRs in game 6
of the 77 Series. I don't believe that's ever been done before or
since.  He had well over 500 home runs - ranked something like 3rd or
4th on the all time list. From what I remember, he was a great clutch
home run hitter in his day.

> Reggie's!)  Garvey, on the other hand, was a dangerous clutch hitter ALL 
> SEASON and reasonably good first baseman.  I plead ignorance on Reggie's 
> fielding abilities because I'm a Cub fan, and only tend to watch National 
> League games (NO DH!!)  

This is interesting - you want us to take you seriously when you talk
about why Reggie shouldn't have been elected to the HOF, and when you
say you're not a fan of Reggie's, yet you say just above that you
don't know much about Reggie because you tend to watch only NL games. 
Reggie Jackson deserves to be in the HOF because he was one of the
best the game has ever seen. If you ever saw Reggie play, you'd know
that. 

> Anyway, I think Niekro deserved to be elected because he won 318 games AND 
> could throw a knuckleball accurately, which is impressive in and of itself!

Niekro will probably make it the next time around - jesus, you sound
like he hasn't got a prayer because he didn't make it this time. 

> Feel free to flame away, if there are indeed any Reggie fans in the
> universe.  

There are plenty of Reggie fans around. If you ever saw him play - and
it appears that you didn't - you'd know how exciting he made the game,
especially when he was a Yankee......

> BTW, I don't particularly care for Garvey either, but he was a better player 
> than Jackson.  Post-season heroics have never particularly impressed me.

What does impress you?  
Thankfully, you don't vote for HOFers. If you did, I shutter to think
of who WOULD be in the Hall right now. 

> Just my $.02 worth.

Trust me Laura, it wasn't even worth $.02.

> Laura


Mark
From: cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu (Michael Silverman)
Subject: Jeff Russell????
Organization: Priests of the Temples of Syrinx
Date:  6 Jan 93 22:16:54 GMT

Any news on where he is going to end up?

I can't believe nobody would want a proven relief pitcher capable
of 35+ saves and a 1.x ERA.....Boston???


--
cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu

"One likes to believe in the freedom of baseball" - Geddy Lee
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dave@snitor.sni.ca (Dave Till)
Subject: Re: Burks and related mediocies
Organization: Carlos Delgado Appreciation Society
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:41:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.080011.18586@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
>And speaking of ChiSox silliness, I keep reading rumors about them
>seriously planning on using Bo Jackson.  Do they *really* think a guy
>who hasn't played in two years, who wasn't that good when he did play,
>is going to come back?

Perhaps not, but I'll bet that there are more than a few people in
Chicago who would be willing to pay money to watch Bo.  And making money
is the owners' highest priority, of course.

--Dave "feeling cynical this morning" Till
"Baldrick, I want you to take this and go out and buy a turkey so
large you'd think its mother had been rogered by an omnibus."
-- from the Black Adder Christmas special
From: cabanrf@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Bill James help
Date: 10 Jan 93 19:55:23 CST
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY

I was looking through my books and I realized that sometime in the
last 4 moves I have lost the 86 & 87 Baseball Abstracts by Bill James. 
I _liked_ them old books.

Is anyone willing to sell  the 86 or 87 Baseball abstracts or knows
where one is in a used book store?
Condition is unimportant as long as I can read them and they don't
have pages missing.
fall apart.  These are for reading, not collecting.

87 was the last year wasn't it?
From: spud@Apple.COM (Dave "Spud" Kalin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Riots and Dodgers?
Date: 12 Jan 93 22:24:32 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

>Last year (63-99) was worse than that.  
>Winning pct. of .389 was the worst for the Dodgers since 1912.
>Losses (99) was the most for the Dodgers since 1908.
>Last place finish was the only time since 1905.


This may seem like a foolish question, but it could be food for thought: Do
you think there may have been some correlation between the LA riots and
the LA Dodgers?  Now before you go flaming me, consider that the Dodgers had
to reschedule a few home games early in the season; the extended road trip
early on could have had an effect on morale, and the rest of the season.
Also, people in LA may have had more important things on their mind than
going to Dodger Stadium (near downtown, btw).

Of course, this is all mere speculation.  Let me know what you think.

-Spud
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Lists: The Best Players In Baseeball
Keywords: stars best baseball
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 14:52:47 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.032738.23621@athena.mit.edu> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>
>based on your comments, and the post by Clay where he explains
>what the DA and RF are (thanks, btw), i would have to conclude that
>these statistics definitely are bogus. i don't know why anyone would
>use them to judge much of anything. i know i wouldn't.

Range Factor is certainly useless (well, that might be going too
far...  it might be marginally useful for *something*), as it is
dividing apples by oranges.  However DA has a more reasonable
denominator, the number of "chances" a player has.

>maybe subjective judgment actually wins out here. or maybe someone
>can come up with a new stat that actually makes some sense.

I'd say that the jury is still out on DA.

>anyone who disagrees, please explain why they do make sense. because
>it is clear that they ignore so many different important factors
>that they are essentially useless. or maybe worse, if they fool people
>into believing they are useful when they are not.

DA is *supposed* to be (chances-converted)/(total-chances).  There is
debate as to how, exactly, to define a "chance".  There is also some
concern about whether the average difficulty of the chances a player
sees depend on the pitching staff and park or not...  My gut feeling
is that they should.  But the evidence is a bit surprising.  (The
biggest differences between pitchers being the number of walks, HRs,
and the distribution of chances between infield and outfield?)

Also, I believe we generally only use ground-ball DA for infielders.
Yet many second basemen seem to specialize at snagging balls in short
right field.  This factor is possibly ignored all together.

-Valentine
From: gaf5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Gail A. Fullman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Women Sports Reporters
Date: 8 Jan 93 20:27:18 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University


>Yes, not only was it after he was flamed for barring 'women reporters' (when
>he had actually banned *all* reporters), it was apparently after some
>sort of determination that there was some sort of contractual right for the
>media to be in locker rooms.  (Why such a strange thing was signed, I sure
>don't know. Think about having your corporation sign a right that the media
>has a right to be in your bathroom and interview you there a little bit and
>see how you feel about it.)
>
Contractual right?  TV or print media or both?  They think if everything,
don't they?  Puts new meaning to "Big Brother is Watching You"!  Me thinks all
sports should review their contracts with the media and not let the "tail wag
dog."  But the media people would say:  "The people have a right to know!"
I wonder what the ratio is of time spent in locker room to newsworthy items.
But I guess we should be happy that these people are employed and not on the
public dole.

>I thought that the solution of constructing an interview room
>*in the locker room* to satisfy said contractual agreement and still give
>the atheletes some privacy was a stroke of genius.  YMMV.
>
Definitely, yes.  Genius and sports, now there's contradiction for you!
-- 

------------------------
|   Gail A. Fullman    |
|   Manager - ADMO     |
|   Ext. 83113         |
------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: The Monthly Mattingly Flame War
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 15:56:54 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.060733.5546@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>A controversy isn't the mere gainsaying of what the 
>other person says...

Is Too!

-Valentine
From: chee1l5@Jane.UH.EDU (sam lane)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Burks and related mediocies
Date: 6 Jan 1993 20:28:02 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
Reply-To: chee1l5@Jane.UH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu


>>Is Blauser really that bad?  What were his DAs?  
>
>Horrible.  Atrocious.  Whatever comes next in the progression "Good, Bad, 
>Ugly, ________."
>
>Blauser had BY FAR the worst DA among NL shortstops in each of the years
>1989, 1990, and 1991.  We're talking DAs in the .580 range, when the league
>is around .630 and the top players around .700 or better.  It doesn't look
>like a park or staff effect, either, since Belliard was tops in the NL in '91.
> 
>       David Tate        |"Out of the dugout endlessly swinging,

Granted Blauser's D sucked earlier in his career, but in the last half of
'92, when he was playing full time, he was adequate. Certainly when you
consider the power he provides at a offensive-poor position.  In '92, he
had 14 HR's in only 343 AB's which projects to nearly 25 HR's in 600 AB's.
Not saying that he will hit 25 this year, but I wouldn't be surprised if
he hits at least 20 (ok, AFCS doesn't hurt).

Any chance Pecota looks like Blauser ? 
Maybe Blauser could bat and Pecota could...

Just trying to figure out why the hell they signed Pecota.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                 ~ Reardon can still bring it. Chyeah right (tm).             
Sam Lane         ~ Overheard this summer- Warren Spahn:"Do you know who I am?" 
Univ.of Houston  ~ 8-year old:"No, but my Dad says get your autograph because
Dept.of Chem.Eng.~             you won't be around much longer."
                 ~ "I'm pretty sure he's an idiot, but I can't *prove* it."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker)
Subject: Re: Troy Neel and the ability to hit...
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 03:41:27 GMT

In article <20741@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> ez027993@dale.ucdavis.edu (Gary The Secret's In The Pesto Huckabay) writes:
>Why aren't the A's playing Troy Neel?  I realize he's old, but he's
>got at least two MLB years in him of reasonable quality.  He destroyed
>AAA (PCL) pitching last year, at age 27.  He hits for power, some
>average, and, like everyone in the A's system, walks a considerable
>amount.

One piece of good news: he was 26 last year, so he is a year younger
than you thought.

>He's not going to be a star - but he could take Harold Baines' job, 
>couldn't he?
>
>How about some Projections from someone with a handbook?  I believe
>Troy is doing his customary massacre of winter ball pitching about
>now.
>
>I'd be surprised if he couldn't hit .240/.350/.440 in OAKLAND.  That's
>a major league hitter.  Anyone who can provide more info, please do.

James says: .266/.355/.425. Only 280 PA, though. His MLE from '91:
305/382/478.

My system says his MLEs were 278/351/479 at Canton in 1989;
237/316/302 at Colorado Springs in '90; 271/391/504 at Huntsville in
'91; 319/396/512 at Tacoma in '92. (Note that James projects to
Oakland, while I project to a neutral park.) His ~50 AB in Oakland
last year are perfectly in context with his hitting over the period.
Grand total 1988-92: 272/356/434. 

To hit that well and not get promoted, he must be a *butcher* in the
field. Isn't that what a DH is for? His projections are comparable to
Baines' 1991, and much better than Baines 92. I would certainly trade
one or the other, though; that A staff looks a bit thin right now.


>   Gary Huckabay 

Clay D.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball