From: dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Artificial Intellegence or Natural Ignorance
Summary: the Turkish re-write of history
Keywords: fascism, self-refutation
Date: 20 Nov 92 02:21:06 GMT
Organization: S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies

In Turkish Genocide Apology as scribed by its current UseNet servile dolt, in
<9211171948@zuma.UUCP> sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) responed to article
<visser.721977795@convex.convex.com> visser@convex.com (Lance Visser) who 
wrote: 

[LV] 	And you are a coward who posts from a site that does not exist
[LV] under a name that is not your own. You are too much of a coward to 

[(*] Are you liar for real? People will think you're just some looney
[(*] howling in the wires. In any event, I am still waiting for your 
[(*] views on the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslims between 1914
[(*] and 1920, which by the way was presented in its full form and not
[(*] ust quoted in excerpts.

[(*] 1) Did Armenians slaughter 62% of Muslim population of Van?

Answer No.

[(*] 2) Did Armenians slaughter 42% of Muslim population of Bitlis?

Answer: No.

[(*] 3) Did Armenians slaughter 31% of Muslim population of Erzurum?

Answer: No

[(*] 4) Did Armenians slaughter 26% of Muslim population of Diyarbakir?

Answer: No.

[(*] 5) Did Armenians slaughter 16% of Muslim population of Mamuretulaziz?

Answer: No.

[(*] 6) Did Armenians slaughter 15% of Muslim population of Sivas?

Answer: No.

[(*] 7) Did Armenians slaughter the entire Muslim population of the Armenian
[(*]    Dictatorship?

Response: Question makes no sense!

[(*] There is only one answer to questions 1-7. And that is a resounding 
[(*]'yes.'[1,2,3] 
             | 
             |
  +----------+ Let's use the Genocide Apologist's own references.
  |
  v
[(*] [1] J. McCarthy, "Armenian Terrorism: History as Poison and Antidote,"
         1984
[(*] [2] K. Karpat, "Ottoman Population 1830-1914," The Univ. of Wisconsin 
         Press, 1985.
[(*] [3] R. Hovannisian, "Armenia On The Road To Independence," 1967, p. 37.

Hmm...the places cited above include: Van, Bitlis, Erzurum, Diyarbakir,
Mamuret El-Aziz, & Sivas. Let witness the UseNet representative for Turkish
fascism make an idiot out of itself! Let's use the above Turkish-suggested
references for another generic Turkish fascist self-refutation!

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|   Armenian Population Based on Above Turkish-Suggested Reference # 1   |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+

District	Before Their Genocide by Turks < 1915	1927	Today	Ref #
--------	-------------------------------------	----	-----	-----

Van				130,000			zero	zero	[1]

Bitlis				191,000			----	zero

Erzurum				163,000			12	zero	[1]

Diyarbakir			89,131			----	zero

Mamuret El-Aziz			111,043			----	zero

Sivas				182,000			----	zero

-------		------------------------------------	----	----

Total				866,174			12	zero


+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|   Armenian Population Based on Above Turkish-Suggested Reference # 2   |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+


Census		Before Their Genocide by Turks < 1915	1927	Today	Ref #
------		-------------------------------------	----	-----	-----

Total in 1867			2,400,000		----	45K*	[2]

Total in 1881-83		1,001,465		----	45K*	[2]

Total in 1914			1,161,169		----	45K*	[2]

								[*] Istanbul

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Disposition of Armenian Population Based on Above Turkish-Suggested Ref # 3 |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Since the Hovannisian reference is considered good by [(*], let's quote 
directly from pages 48-49, where we read:

 " [Title]  Deportation and Massacre of Turkish Armenians

  Several authors assert that Armenian resistance at Van constituted a key
  factor in the Turkish evacuation of Persia and motivated the Ittihadist
  [Young Turk government] leaders to annihilate the Turkish Armenians. The
  question of responsibility for the massacre or deportation of nearly all
  the Ottoman Armenians has evolved into a polemic. Hundreds of books, 
  articles, and documents have been published to describe the horrifying
  scenes of violence and death. Many writers, such as the British Bryce and
  Toynbee, French Pinon, German Lepsius, American Morgenthau and Gibbons,
  insisted that the massacres were premeditated and ruthlessly executed. They
  have refuted the Ottoman government's official publications and 
  justifications by substantiating that anti-Armenian measures were 
  deliberated by the Ittihadists even before the outbreak of war. The fact
  remains that an estimated eight hundred thousand to over one million
  Armenians perished within a few months, and several hundred thousand more
  succumbed in the following years to the ravages of disease, famine, and
  refugee life. Unknown numbers of women and children were converted forcibly
  to Islam, possessed by Turkish men, or adopted by Moslem families."

So much for Artificial Intellegence OR rather Natural Ignorance.
-- 
David Davidian dbd@urartu.sdpa.org "It has been ever thus in all things, son, 
SDPA Center for Regional Studies    Whatever we thrash we give to the wind, 
P.O. Box 382761                     We too have been blown by the world's wind
Cambridge, MA 02238                 The chaff is gone but the grain remains." 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:11672 talk.politics.mideast:22215 talk.politics.soviet:8958 soc.culture.greek:10628 soc.culture.europe:9591 soc.history:9482 soc.culture.soviet:10015