HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: qasama@banach.WPI.EDU (John Grossi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Belorussians , Ruthenians?
Date: 5 Oct 1992 19:22:41 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
Distribution: world
Reply-To: qasama@banach.WPI.EDU (John Grossi)
NNTP-Posting-Host: banach.wpi.edu
Keywords: Belarus, Ruthenia, history


I have a question about Belorussian History, which I have posted before,
but missed the answer due to an interveining summer break.

I am fairly conversent on the History of Eastern Europe in the Middle Ages.
Yet, I have never seen mention of the Belorussian people. I have seen mention
of two principalities that did occupy that area before it was swallowed by
Poland and Lituania, Volhynia and Halciz Ruthenia. I am curious as to the
relation between these two medieval countries and the modern belorussians.
Are Ruthenians just an old name for belorussians? If so when was the 
change made? Or was there some major migration? Were the partitions of
Poland imporatant? I have seen mention of the part of Eastern Solvakia
that went nto the old Soviet Union after World War II as being called 
Ruthenia? Is this important? Or is this whole question just something 
that is not mentioned in Western History books.
(also sorry for using the old Belorussian instead of Byelorussian)
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
qasama@wpi.wpi.edu  / V   V OOOO TTTTT EEEE\ Always store beer in a dark place.
Worcester Polytech /_ _V V  O  O   T   EEE  \__ Moderation is for monks.
God save Lazurus Long!/ v   OOOO   T   EEEE    \ Women need no excuse.












Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:8060 talk.politics.soviet:8208
From: DeVoid@cup.portal.com (David - Lyall)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: US Citizenship
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 23:46:38 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Sep17.135102.25001@jyu.fi>,<19upbfINNpkm@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>
  <1992Sep25.154232.27129@sarah.albany.edu>

>>By the way, are there any other nations on earth which make language a
>>prerequisite for citizenship ?
>>
>      Sure - United States of America.
>
  I believe that birth within the borders of the USA is sufficient for
citizenship.  Also, on this thread, the treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo, which
ended the US war against mexico, (wherein one third of Mexico was ceded to
the Yankees for the mexican surrender) provided full citizenship for all
residents of the newly acquired territories.
	Altho the Baltic peoples are in sort of an opposite position, similar
sensibilities would serve them in good stead.
	BTW, what do you think the Hawaians are planning for the Anglo colonists
of that land taken by force of arms?

==> J. David Lyall > DeVoid@cup.portal.com
From: rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu (Jeff Bytof)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Save the xSU's Space Program !!!
Date: 2 Oct 1992 01:45:46 GMT
Organization: sio
NNTP-Posting-Host: lutherlab.ucsd.edu

>PETER VOROBIEFF asserts:

>And our satellite-launch system is THE CHEAPEST
>and MOST RELIABLE in the world. The NASA and ESA are scared shitless
>of Glavkosmos - they won't be able to beat our prices and give the same
>level of reliability for at least seven years.

If I were an American scientist or businessman with a plan for a  
space application, and had limited funds, I would be very tempted to employ 
the Talents of the xSU space establishment.

There is always the question of how many Americans do you put out
of work by sending it elsewhere.  I believe that if we are not
competitive, we don't deserve the work.  If the Russians can do the
job for less, it's their turn.

Assuming that I had the funding, who do I contact?  I would want to
send out a request for bids, and see competition for the job.
Could I get the launch insured?  Could I get tracking and communications 
support for my spacecraft? 

That's the problem: where is the information that will assist the
potential customers in getting the job started??? 

Jeff Bytof
rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:8113 talk.politics.soviet:8244
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: ESTONIA existed and exists (Was: "SOME
Date: 28 Sep 92 12:08:04 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <1a4sf4INN39h@agate.berkeley.edu>, muh@physics1 (Yury M. Mukharsky)
writes:
> In article <1992Sep27.112342.1@cc.helsinki.fi> thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi 
writes:
>>Unfortunately, here I must disagree. For instance, the Estonian republic
>>did EXIST (1918-1940). We have to acknowledge that not only because of
> 
> No doubt about that. As well as Chekh kingdom did exist before 1918.
> But in 1918 NEW country was formed. And I do think that all residents of
> this country became it's residents. 

Excuse me, what IS or WAS the "Chekh kingdom"? I find your train of thought
difficult to follow...

Tapani Hietaniemi
From: polina@mimi.UU.NET (Polina Antonova)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Dve Sud'bu (Krivaja da ...)
Date: 28 Sep 1992 22:23:40 -0400
Organization: UUNET Technologies Inc, Falls Church, VA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mimi.uu.net

Here is the first half of the song (unfortunately, on my tape it's cut).
May be it will inspire somebody to remember the rest...

BTW, I don't understand this song too, so please continue the discussion.

					Polina
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Zhil ja slavno v pervoj treti
dvadcat' let na belom svete
po ucheniju
Zhil bezbedno i pri dele
Plyl kuda glaza gljadeli
po techeniju
Zaskripit li v povorote
zatreschit v vodovorote
ja ne slushaju
To razujus' to obujus'
na sebja v vode ljubujus'
bragu kushaju
I poka ja naslazhdalsa
pal tuman i okazalsa
v giblom meste ja
I ogromnaja staruha
hohotnula prjamo v uho
zlaja bestija
Ja krichu ne slushu krika
ne vjazhu ot straha lyka
vizhu ploho ja
Na vetru menja kachaet
Kto zdes' - Slyshu otvechaet
Ja, Nelegkaja
Bros' krestit'sa prechitaja
Ne spaset tebja Svjataja Bogorodica
Kto ruli i vesla brosit
teh nelegkaja zanosit
Tak uzh voditsa
I s odyshkoj ozhiren'em
lomit tvar' po pnjam koren'jam
tjazhkoj postup'ju
Ja v pot'mah ischu dorogu
no uzh bragu ponemnogu
tol'ko po sto p'ju
Vdrug navstrechu mne zhivaja
kolchenogaja krivaja
morda hitraja
Ne gorjuj krichit boleznyj
goremyka moj netrezvyj
slezy vytru ja
Vzvyl ja dushu razryvaja
Vyvozi menja Krivaja
ja na privjazi
Mne plevat' chto krivoboka
krivoruka krivooka
Tol'ko vyvezi
Vlez ne gorb k nej s perepugu
No krivaja shla po krugu
Nogi raznye
Padal ja i polz na brjuhe
i hihikali staruhi
bezobraznye
Ne do zhiru byt' by zhivu
Mnogo gorja nad obryvom
a v obryve zla
Slysh Krivaja chetvert' stavlju
kriviznu tvoju ispravlju
raz ne vyvezla
I ty Nelegkaja mamanja
hochesh' istiny v stakane
na lechenie
Tjazhelo zhe stol'ko vesit'
a hlebnesh' stakanov desjat'
oblegchenie
I pripali dve staruhi
ko butyli medovuhi
p'jan' s hanygoju
Ja poka za kochki prjachus'
ozirajus' zadom pjachus'
s kruchu prygaju
Ogljadelsa lodka rjadom
a za mnoju po karjagam
diko ohaja
pripustilis' podvyvaja
dve sud'by moi Krivaja
da Nelegkaja
.................




-- 
 Polina Antonova  | polina@hq.demos.su                    /\/\
 DEMOS,           | polina%hq.demos.su@relay.eu.net      (____)
 Moscow, Russia   | +7 095 231-2129                   __(__    )
						     '------'~~
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: U.S. students poor performance in math/science = bull
From: ioffe@chen.bgu.ac.il (Alex Ioffe)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 14:19:43 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Ben Gurion University, Beer Sheva, Israel

cema@cs.umd.edu (Simon Hawkin) writes:
: ...By the way, as far as I know, this year world math contest among
: high school students was won by Americans. Russians were 6th or so.
: Maybe, we should wait a little before deciding the fate of American
: science ? They had poor physics in the beginning of this century.
: Then, lots of European physicists made American physics strong, and
: now it remains strong because they educated Americans. The same may
: well happen with math and anything else. (Please correct me if I am
: wrong, I am a very-new-comer...)
:
: CEMA

Wrong!!!!! Russians were 4th. First were Chinese!!!!!!!!
From: verbit@coolidge.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Spelling...
Date: 5 Oct 92 15:13:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Oct5.111321.16089
Organization: Sozialistische Patienten Kollektiv

From scs patented Cthulhu worshipper:

In article <1992Oct05.131559.29645@watson.ibm.com> bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy) writes:

>FYI - I believe Anna Karamazoff was one of typical Nabokov's jokes.
>Everything needs explanations in this damned group.

Do you believe that everything needs *wrong* explanation
on this damned group? The joke has nothing to do with Nabokov.
Anna Karamazoff was the name of the hit French play
from Russian life of 20-ies. It was tongue-in-cheek, and the 
mainstay personages (all male) were Petrushka,
Babushka and Annushka. It could happen that I confused
two French plays there, one with Petrushka,
Babushka and Annushka and "A. K.", but both of them
existed and were very popular.

Misha.
From: AUSBROOK@UCS.INDIANA.EDU (Entropy Warrior)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Movies
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:39:08 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

>above average, "...Wolves" is just a waste of a lot of money.  The only
>reason it won is that it is a movie about indians in which indians are
>not put down.
>
>---Garik.

It's also a terrible rip-off of Little Big Man, which did not need music to
tell you how you were supposed to feel.

;-'

-K

-Mka
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:8090 talk.politics.soviet:8224
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: ESTONIA existed and exists (Was: "SOME
Date: 27 Sep 92 09:23:42 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki


In article <1a07k7INNb6n@agate.berkeley.edu>, muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU
(Yury M. Mukharsky) writes:

> Saying that old Latvia (Estonia, Lithuania) re-created or freed in 1991, has
> at best some legal meaning. They are NEW countries.
> Yury

Unfortunately, here I must disagree. For instance, the Estonian republic
did EXIST (1918-1940). We have to acknowledge that not only because of
LEGAL reasons but for our intellectual HONESTY (because it DID exist).
I think we have even some MORAL reasons to recognize the existence of
the Estonian republic that was unjustly wiped out by Stalin.

And now, we have a new democratic Estonian republic. It has been
re-established. But it must gradually adapt itself to the new
circumstances of the 90ies (which it has been already partly
accomplished).

At first: legal restitution.
Secondly: reforms for adaptation.
These are the necessary conditions for the success of young Estonian
democracy.

To cut a long story short:
Long live the third republic!
---------------------------------------------------------------------
with the best regards
Tapani Hietaniemi, University of Helsinki

Our common aim: Peace, multiculturality, democracy and prosperity
around the Gulf of Finland!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: gorokho1@husc10.harvard.edu (Zhenya Gorokhovsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Spy satellites
Date: 5 Oct 92 02:26:30 GMT
Organization: Physicists for Poetry
In-reply-to: pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu's message of 1 Oct 92 22:13:04 GMT

In soc.culture.soviet PETER VOROBIEFF writes:

> Nevertheless you are almost correct. Only the resolution of our low-orbit
> photo systems is of the same order or better than that of American spy
> satellites. But they have much, much better image enchancing hardware and
> software. Still their spy equipment is relatively expensive, and ours
> was dirt cheap. And it never was a great trouble to lose one of the 
> satellites.
It is painfully obvious from your absolutely moronic response that 
you _never_ read _any_ literature on the topic you are so eagerly 
discussing. Keep your opinions shut in your dandruff-ridden head.
Shalom,
Zhenya Gorokhovsky
gorokho1@husc.harvard.edu

        The barge was full of barley and the crew was full of rye.
                                                - "Erie Canal"
From: nobby@milton.u.washington.edu (Vitaly Shmatikov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: More education talk...
Date: 29 Sep 92 04:10:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Sep29.041047.5742
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <60714@mimsy.umd.edu> vadik@cs.umd.edu (Vadim Maslov) writes:
>In article <1992Sep29.010923.2095@u.washington.edu> nobby@milton.u.washington.edu (Vitaly Shmatikov) writes:
>>quality of education was truly depressing. With few exceptions
>>instructors were almost incompetent.
>
>  Well, I also graduated from VMiK. Indeed, there are some 
>problems in there but these rude insults impress even me
>(I never was a big fan of VMiK). Probably they are meant to
>carry a message about their author.
>

I'm sorry and ask for an excuse. By no means I meant to insult anybody.
Perhaps I should have had :-) scattered all over the article. However,
I still insist that the level of instruction was very low. Maybe I wasn't
lucky enough to listen to the lectures of good professors. Few of my
professors were *really* good but the others were awful. Sorry.

>
>>  Student body comprised mostly:
>>	a. Computer geeks
>>	b. The folks who flunked Mekhmat entrance exams or were
>>	   kicked out of there after 1-2 years of study
>>	c. Idlers who couldn't care less about education, VMiK
>>	   and all that stuff.
>
>Why you, having this level of hatred to your student colleaugues,
>studied at VMiK for 3 years? It must be very difficult for a bright 
>boy like you to study among this bydlo. 
>BTW, to which category (a,b,c) do you belong?
>

It's definitely not hatred. I do not address personal traits of the
students. However, I think that most VMiK students (absolutely
including myself) are inferior (in terms of knowledge and aptitude) 
to their American fellows from good universities. 
As for me since I'm not a hacker and never tried to enter Mekhmat
I obviously belong to the group c :-).

>First, that's just not true. Marks were usually related to knowledge.

Absolutely disagree. Too often one could see a prepared student
getting a bad grade because of a biased professor (or just because
the latter was in a bad mood) and people who knew nothing got A's.
Maybe it's inevitable drawback of oral exams. In this case it's yet
another argument in the favor of American system.

>is. I had enough time and freedom to study things I wanted to.
>Nobody made me to do it. But it doesn't mean that system is this bad.
>

That's right. But while the American educational system encourages
independent search the Soviet institutions at best merely tolerate and
at worst obstruct this freedom. And surely there is no need in American
school to skip classes in order to study smth yourself. In Russia
it was necessary because of a hectic schedule filled with content-free
courses and extensive but superficial practical studies.

>-- 
>
>Vadim Maslov.

Sorry, Vadim. If I knew this article would offend anybody I would never
have posted it.   

PLEASE direct all subsequent flamage right to me through e-mail. I'm ready
to accept this hail.

					Nobby
					nobby@u.washington.edu
From: voykhans@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Krivaja da neljoxkaja
Date: 26 Sep 92 01:56:22 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <9209251825.AA20533@enet-gw.pa.dec.com>, alex@took.enet.dec.com ("Alex Allister Shvartsman, EMF,              LKG2-2/T2 25-Sep-1992 1421") writes:
> RE Vadim S. Kaplunovsky vadim@bolvan.ph.utexas.edu (internet)
>>>  1. Does anybody have the words of Wysocki's song "Krivaja da nelegkaja"
>>>  2. This is a question primarily for the esteemed (x)COBOK masses:
>>>     What is Wysocki trying to tell you in the song, if anything?
>>>     Or do you view it as a silly drunk's hallucination?
>>>
>>There are several versions of this song, with *very* different sub-texts.
>>The version published by Melodia does not tell much beyond "drinking
>>too much is not good".  Other versions are much more powerful.
>>Unfortunately, I do not have the tape handy, so I cannot post the *full*
>>text.
> 
> So, are there any volunteers to provide the words for "Crooked and tough"?
> 
> Alex
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim Antonov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: ESTONIA existed and exists (Was: "SOME
Date: 27 Sep 1992 17:58:54 -0400
Organization: Berkeley Software Design
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net

In article <1992Sep27.112342.1@cc.helsinki.fi> thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi writes:
>Unfortunately, here I must disagree. For instance, the Estonian republic
>did EXIST (1918-1940). We have to acknowledge that not only because of
>LEGAL reasons but for our intellectual HONESTY (because it DID exist).
>I think we have even some MORAL reasons to recognize the existence of
>the Estonian republic that was unjustly wiped out by Stalin.

Unfortunately here i must agree. For instance, the Empires of Aztec
and Inks did exist for hundreds of years. We have to acknowledge that
not only because of LEGAL reasons but for our intellectual HONESTY
(because they DID exist). I think we have even some MORAL reasons to
recognize the existence of the Inko-Aztec republic that was unjustly
wiped out by Conquistadors.

BAN THE UNITED STATES! WHITE-SKINS GO HOME! DEATH TO EUROPEAN OCCUPANTS!

(Kill Muslims In Bosnia, Drow Latinos In Atlantic Ocean,
Send African Americans Back To Africa, Jews Go To The Desert, Clear
Australia Of White Occupants, Germany For Germans, Italy For Romans,
Homo Sapiens Die On Place And Give Earth Back To Monkeys).

Check you logic, buddy.

--vadim
From: muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: More education talk...
Date: 29 Sep 1992 22:33:12 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu
Keywords: Russian students, "cookbook recipes."

In article <1992Sep29.135430.33221@watson.ibm.com> bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy) writes:
>In article <_j+prrb.oleg@netcom.com> oleg@netcom.com (Oleg Kiselev) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep28.142827.17509@watson.ibm.com> bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy) writes:
>>>Kind of strange - at least 4 grammar errors in  one paragraph.  Should be 
>>>tough Ph.D.
>>
>1. Selective citation out of context is also a sign of a "feeble mind".

I'm not fully understand what do you mean by "out of context". I'm not sure
that your article deserves full quotation, on which you apparently
insist, but just once, maybe you will show us some subtle thoughtm which
escaped my crude mind: so you wrote:

  If level of English usage in this posting (after US high school,
  U of Illinois and Ph.D. program now) is representative -
  no reason to go anywhere else :-)

  Sorry to mention that, but in Russia Ph.D. was at least associated with
  certain level of correct spelling in principal language.


iYour turn, maestro.
Yury.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry)
Subject: Re: Spelling...
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:39:18 GMT

oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky) writes:

>In  <BvFIzI.Cz3@news.cso.uiuc.edu>  didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry) writes:
>>...
>>2.  Garik's aim was to bring out a message that in America one could get a
>>decent education, no worse than the best that Russia can offer...

>So, Garik, how do you explain the 1992 math scores that I posted yesterday ?
>Do not be shy - I promise to overlook your spelling.

>Oleg V

Oleg,

   I already explained.  I have posted a letter a friend of mine sent me
   that contained his involvement in American math Olympiads.  

   I never claimed that American education is better, nor do I believe that
   Russian is better, nor education system of any other country I know of.
   I mostly tried to express my feeling that in America, one can get good
   well-rounded education.  However, there are a lot of problems with our
   education system.  And, if you follow on some of the discussions that
   you can find even in your local newspaper, you will find out what they 
   are.  

   Garik.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: davidson@ccrs.emr.ca (David Davidson)
Subject: Use of Western software in the CIS
Organization: Canada Centre for Remote Sensing, Ottawa
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 20:45:19 GMT

A private software firm has asked me to find out how Ukrainians, Russians
etc. use software with an english interface. They are not prepared to
rewrite their code but someday wish to market their software in E. Europe.
So, would it be acceptable for example, to write a manual in Russian,
but provide english software. I imagine keyboard extentions must be added
so that the user can input in their own language, but how do you get around
the multiple possible translations of a single word. I was told for  example,
that if you were feeding in a table of names, that there can be several ways
of spelling a name depending on their nationality, and if you translate to
english it get even more confusing. Is this the case?
If someone with some past experience could enlighten me, I would be greatly in
their debt.

David

davidson@ccrs.emr.ca
From: didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Amer/Rus movies
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:24:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BvEG87.IxM
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

arto@leland.Stanford.EDU (Artavazd Khachikian) writes:

>In article <BvCppD.9pv@news.cso.uiuc.edu> didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry)
>>
>>As for good movies, depressive or not, America provide plenty of those.
>>More than SU in any case, where most films suffer from bad acting and bad
>>montage.


>	Oh no, no, no. Russian/Soviet acting school, in my opinion,
>is one of the best in the world. As for the American actors, yes, some
>of them are good, but the vast majority - standardized dulls, standardized
>mimics, standardized bodies and muscles, standardized images etc.

>	As for the montage, it is very important to distinguish between
>the form and the content in art, between the tools and the objectives.

>	You mentioned the main point yourself - in the Soviet Union movies
>were closer to ART, in America - closer to ENTERTAINMENT and BUSINESS, this
>just another aspect of the wholesale utilitarianism of the American society.

>	By the way, is "Roseanne" still number 1 American show? Any comments
>necessary?

Sorry for outburst on russian movies, I just keep having this idea that in
order to have a discussion in this group one needs to say somethings that will
make someone else inflamed, esle there will be no responce. So my apologies.

However, now talking a little more seriously, after coming to this country
I find russian movies hard to watch.  Russian acters are very good theatre
acters, but not movie actors.  When a theatre actor acts the same way in a
movie as he does on stage, it is very noticible.  His mimics are exaggerated,
which makes it almost unbearable to watch.  

In America, most actors are good actors or one should say professional.  They
may not alway be anything special, but most of the time they know their business
There are good russian movie actors, I like Rolan Byikov, for example, 
especially since I saw "Comisar".  But, in general, I think that russian movie
actors are not that good as movie actors. (And I am talking mostly about
better or average movies).

Now, for montage, american movies can also be divided into ART and Entert. 
There are movies with interesting themes (to which a newcomer cannot alway
relate, for example Spike Lee's "Do the right thing").  However, in refering
to montage, I meant how the movie is made, and here again, america is a leader,
even in its average movies.

---Garik.