From: diana@wetware.com (CatWoman )
Subject: Re: More on guys who aren't dating Ed Wright
Organization: Castle WetWare MouseCatcher
Distribution: soc
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 15:00:18 GMT

ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) writes:

] In <1ade3uINN688@golem.wcc.govt.nz> parks_typ@med.wcc.govt.nz writes:
] 
] 
] I never said she was "perfect" or that I never got within 50
] feet of her.  She was a PhD on the science faculty at a local 
] university, didn't enjoy sports, did enjoy camping, hiking, 
] dancing, horseback riding... just about everything I could
] hope for.  

Except for one important point - she wasn't interested in you?

] Well, a lot depends on what you mean by "more than a friend."  Some
] women I know believe it's wrong to have lunch or dinner with a man
] alone unless they're "more than just friends."  In that case, imagine
] how you would feel if one of your female friends treated you the same
] way -- she would go places with you as part of a group, but never be
] alone with you because she thought it was inappropriate.  You'd 
] probably feel pretty insulted, right?

Ed - most of the guys I KNOW would not want to have lunch with
me or go places except as part of a group.  It's just fortunate
that I feel that way about THEM, too.

I admit that it seems rather silly to not go to lunch with
someone unless they are "more than just friends".  It's 
usually my friends I WANT to have lunch with, and the 
"group" situation is provided by going to someplace where
there are other people.  "Alone" for dinner or lunch is,
in my mind, being in my house alone with the other person.
And until I know someone fairly well, I'm reluctant to have
them even know where I live.

If this person was unwilling to sit with you and share a
sandwich in a restaurant, or park, or whatever, consider it
HER loss.  That's usually how *I* handle the feelings when
someone rejects me.

] On another level, since you say you really like him as a friend, I
] think it's safe to assume he feels the same way about you.  Put 
] yourself in his place for a minute.  You say you are not interested 
] because you're not physically attracted.  Suppose a friend of yours, 
] someone you really liked a lot told you the same thing.  He liked 
] you as a friend, but wouldn't even consider you as more than a 
] friend, because of your physical appearance.  Nothing you can say 
] or do, nothing you feel, nothing you are or hope to be can change 
] that.  It doesn't matter who or what you are.  He will go out
] with you in a group, or do whatever else he believes is 
] "appropriate", but never even consider the possiblity of anything 
] more, just because of the way you look.  How would you feel?

Again, most of the guys I've ever MET felt this way.  ALL of the
guys I ever met in both high-school and college felt this way.
It was no ego-boost, for sure.  Or rather, so it SEEMED at the
time.  Now that I'm older, and more comfortable with MYSELF,
I can look back and as I FEEL how I felt then, I realize that
I was giving off very heavy DON'T TOUCH signals.  

] Finally, a lot of guys are really concerned about their physical
] appearance, and feel insecure if a woman does not find it attractive.
] He may be hoping that, if he persists, you'll eventually admit that
] you really found him attractive all along, silencing one of his biggest
] fears.

This is quite true.  The problem, Ed, is not one of your
physical attractiveness, or athletic inclinations.  I know
people around here that I can't IMAGINE how anyone would
want to get within 50 feet of them.  There's a guy at work
who for YEARS we joked that he washed his hair and took a
bath once a month, and washed his sweater once a year, and
we wondered if the two occurrances would EVER happen at the
same time.  He was also a boring, pain-in-the-ass know-it-all,
who surprised me greatly when he gave a talk one time and I
discovered he had a sense of humor.  But he's married, and
apparently happily so, and has been for a long time.

The problem is that the type of person YOU are is going
to be indicated by your outward appearance.  Believe me,
SOMEone, SOMEwhere, will be attracted to that appearance.
What is happening is that the type of person YOU are
attracted to is apparently NOT attracted to the person
you appear to be.  So far, at least.  If you want a
biker-chick<tm>, you're best off wearing jeans, a leather
vest, and a tatoo.  Most - and again, there's always an
exception to ANY statement of generality - most of the
biker-chick<tm> types that I've met are not interested in
a guy who's wearing a brooks-brother's suit.  And the
woman who is interested in the type of guy who WOULD wear
the brooks-brother's suit comfortably is not going to
necessarily notice the guy with torn jeans, long hair,
love beads and earrings.  Won't matter if 99% of the
time the guy in question IS the type she's interested in,
as the advertisers say - first impressions are everything.

So, my best advice to you is to sit down and make a list
of what qualities you want in a female, then figure out
what is most likely to attract the attention of that type
of female, and do your best to BECOME the type of person
who will attract that type of female.  A hunter who wants
to shoot deer will get nowhere using a duck decoy to
attract a deer!

I know you are trying to say you want some woman who will
want you DESPITE what you look like - who will look 
BEYOND the image to the person.  But if your image presents
the picture of the type of person she is NOT interested
in, she's not going to take the time to see if there's
a discrepancy.  You have to meet any potential partner
half-way in most, if not all, situations.  That's the
key to a successful relationship, knowing when and where
to compromise.  And you need to be able to START that
way from the get-go.

Diana