HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Torah In A Torah Context (was Re: more of ...can of worms....)
Date: 5 Sep 92 00:03:55 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Sep03.201022.696019@locus.com> hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles) writes:
>In article <Bu0DD0.CzF@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:

>>accepting that the extensive description is there because good geography
>>books did not exist in those days, but the description should fit SOME
>>rivers arising in those mountains of southeastern Turkey.
>
>I just don't seen any evidence from the text itself that would
>allow you to pinpoint its locations.
...
>BTW, someone may have asked you about the Flood, but I don't recall
>your response. At the risk of forcing you to repeat yourself:
>
>I also find it difficult to accept the notion that the Flood did not
>change the geography/topology at all.  After all, according to the
>Biblical account, the Flood wreaked havoc on the entire Planet Earth -
>and if you accept the Talmudic accounts, it was even worse. According
>to the Malbim (I believe), even the tilt of the Earth's axis was
>affected by the flood. So I don't think it unreasonable to claim that a
>few tiny rivers were also affected.

He didn't answer this the first two times I asked.  I don't think
you'll get an answer, since he doesn't have one that could support his
point. 

-- 
   |)  David Charlap           "TELEPHONE, n.  An Invention of the devil which
  /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu   abrogates some of the advantages of making a
 ((|,)                          disagreeable person keep his distance."
  ~|~                              --- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Singles' Shabbatons
Date: 5 Sep 92 00:14:39 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Sep3.181425.16369@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> kahn@troi.cc.rochester.edu (James Kahn) writes:
>I was wondering if anyone reading out there has gone to some of the Orthodox
>Jewish Singles' weekends in the Catskills this summer and recommends them.
>(There's another this weekend, and more planned for Sukkos).  I realize
>there not the ideal way to make a shidduch, but are they enjoyable?
>
>Please E-mail responses, or post if you think there's broader interest.

Please post them (or summarize the e-mail, James).  I, for one, am
also interested in the result.
-- 
   |)  David Charlap           "TELEPHONE, n.  An Invention of the devil which
  /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu   abrogates some of the advantages of making a
 ((|,)                          disagreeable person keep his distance."
  ~|~                              --- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: On Orthodox Monopoly
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 22:32:45 GMT

In article <mannj.715971400@acf9> mannj@acf9.nyu.edu (Jordan Mann) writes:
>
>If I understand the Reform and Conservative correctly, they interpret the
>(Written) Torah as literally as the Orthodox do, if not more so.  Their
>decision not to fulfill many of the commandments results not from 
>reinterpretation but from rejection or from the belief that these 
>commandment are "not relevant".
....
>This has no bearing on my point, which is that the Conservative and
>Reform are the first to reject the *Written* Law.

I will not speak for reform Judaism, but conservative Judaism does
not reject or make irrelevant the written law.

What conservative Judaism does is continue to interpret the written
law, and not freeze it in the distant past.

Please read some responsa beofre making such claims.

As examples, some of the more well-known responsa are:

   - is electricity per se allowed on shabbat (yes - with restrictions)
   - are women permitted to be counted in a minyan (yes)
   - is a woman permitted to be a rabbi (yes)
   - Is commercial wine prepared in the United States treife (no)

In each case, there is not a contradiction with the written law, and
the author of the teshuva goes out of his way to meet orthodox
counterarguments (which, not surprisingly, are still denied by most
orthodox authorities).
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Kissing a Mezuzah (Was: Not a Charm?)
Date: 9 Sep 92 11:39:12 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <ALLEN.92Sep8160716@golem.ssc.gov> allen@ssc.gov writes:
>
>I heard a nice p'shat on the purpose of kissing the Mezuzah this last
>weekend from R' Abramov (the husband of Tehilla Abramov, who "The Secret
>of Jewish Femininity") in the name of the Rambam.

The custom of kissing the mezuza is a nice way of honoring the Tora.
Remember that like Tefilin the mezuza has  some paragraphs of the Tora
written in it.
But this kissing is far from being a must.
There were a wide gates in the entrance of Jerusalem and  the temple
mount.
If every one had to kiss the mezuza then just the 1 foot on the side
of the mezuza was of use !

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shalom     Gideon Ehrlich

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From: eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Edward A Shnekendorf)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Ask Michael Lerner
Keywords: pro-Jewish?  Hardly.
Date: 9 Sep 92 20:12:51 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:

>Next weekend I may be in a position to hear Michael Lerner, the editor of
>"Tikkun" magazine, speak.  There will probably be a question and answer
>session, as well.

>Frankly, he and much of what he's written turn my stomach so I'm not sure
>I even want to go.  However, if I do, I'd certainly want to be prepared.

I'm not that familiar with Michael Lerner's positions, other than his 
views on the Arab-Israeli Conflict.  Can you briefly summarize some of
his other views on Judaism, etc.

>Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
>	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton

Ed Shnekendorf
eshneken@uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: A Byte Of Torah - The Plug
From: ToraByte <CFRQC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sunday, 13 Sep 1992 21:03:10 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

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Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Torah In A Torah Context (was Re: more of ...can of worms....)
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 14:53:21 GMT

hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
>...If we assume
>that the Written Torah is the literal word of God, we should be able
>to assume that every word is literally correct.  Here we have two
>extensively described rivers, which we cannot find, and two barely
>described rivers, which "everybody" knows.  Now I have no problem with
>accepting that the extensive description is there because good geography
>books did not exist in those days, but the description should fit SOME
>rivers arising in those mountains of southeastern Turkey.

This is an interesting discussion.  But let's take the converse.
If we assume that the Torah was written by man (chas veshalom),
why would something so easily verified be falsified?  Several
possibilities exist.  Here are a couple:

Rivers have been known to dry up.  This is certainly one possibility.

Another is -- still working on our assumption -- that the individuals
writing were unaware of the real geography.  But they were clearly
aware of the other two rivers.  Even assuming they wrote it based on
hearsay, someone must have known the facts.  It would certainly not
have detracted from the story to have listed only the two extant rivers.
Why make them up?  It's certainly not a focal point of the account.

I think, even if I accepted the above-mentioned assumption, I would
probably still believe that all four rivers existed at the time the
Torah was written.  This is not to say I would accept everything in
the Torah at face value.  Crucial points, where I may suspect ulterior
motives, may raise my suspicions.  But this one seems so innocuous,
it just doesn't seem worthwhile to lie about it.

Of course, I wouldn't call this poorly reasoned argument proof of
any kind.  Just a thought.

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lindae@netcom.com ()
Subject: Roommate Needed in Sunnyvale, CA
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 02:11:26 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 



If you are living in the Bay Area and you are looking for a roommate,
let's talk!   

Apartment Description:

2 Bedroom with a Loft
2 Bathroom
Newer, modern complex
2 Swimming Pools
Jacuzzi
Small workout room


The room for rent is a 10 x 14 with a walk-in closet.  You will have your
own private bathroom, just outside your bedroom door.  In addition to your
bedroom, you will also be able to share the loft area which I will be using
as office space.  There will be room in the loft for you to set up a
desk and computer, or whatever else you may need the space for.

You Should Be:
25-35
Male or Female
Non-smoker
No drugs
No Pets
Professional
Responsible


I am too.


The rent is $550.00 per month (don't forget...that includes 1/2 of the loft
in addition to your bedroom and bathroom!)

If you're interested, please give me a call at (408) 293-5871 or e-mail
lindae@netcom.com

Thanks.
Linda

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Isn't it wonderful
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 4 Sep 92 05:55:17 GMT

In <9209030527.AA06409@nysernet.ORG> VSLARRY@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Larry Israel) writes:

    Warren says:

    > if I'm up at that hour I'm either on the way to shul already or
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    > asleep.  Or still up from the night before), about half the
      ^^^^^^^

    And if he's not up at that hour?

Until the heat wave breaks, I'm estivating.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire world		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very publishing house carrot.
 |warren@      But the principal
/ nysernet.org is not *** at all.
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: A few questions
Date: 10 Sep 92 12:05:43 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <88308@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>In article <mBsqqB1w165w@valpso.hanse.de>, tichauer@valpso (Manfredo Tichauer) writes:
>>  Christian religions (at least Catholics and Protestants) recognize that
>>  Jesus was circumsized ( although almost no christians know it): for the
>>  catholic world the official name of the   1st.January   is
>
>>                THE DAY OF THE CIRCUMCISION OF THE LORD
>
>>  You can read it in ANY south american calendar or agenda where the names
>>  of the saints that correspond to a specific date are written.
>
>And Jewish calenders that do not identify 25 Dec usually(?) do not identify
>1 Jan either, for exactly this reason.
>
O.K. Jewish calenders do not pay attention to 25 dec. and the SHMONA
YEMEY MILA (8 days till the circumcision) till 1st Jan,

  But they to pay attension to the April 1st and the TISHA YARCHEY
LEIDA  (9 month of pregnancy )     ^^^^^^^^^

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shalom     Gideon Ehrlich

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From: goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: On Qadish
Date: 6 Sep 92 09:51:38 GMT
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology

amir@leopard.gatech.edu (amir) writes:

>The Sepharadim have a consistent rule for the mourners' Kadish:
>	After Tehilim the mourners recite "Kadish Yehe Shelama"
>	After Midrash the mourners recite "Kadish Al Israel"

>The first one is called by Asjkenazim "Kadish Yatom" and the second is
>called by Ashkenazim "Kadish deRabanan". This is also why after divrei
>Torah it is customary to say the Midrash of Rabbi Hanania ben Akashia,
>followed by Kadish Al Israel.

>Kadish is NOT said after Aleinu or after Igdal or Adon Olam, because
>it does not follow those rules.

>What the Ashkenazi rules are is a mystery to me...

Qadish is NOT said after ALEINU by the Sephardim you say? Which Sephardim???

Qadish IS said by the Ashkenazim after Igdal or Adon Olam you say? Which
Ashkenazim???

What I know from experience to be said by Sephardim after Aleinu is HALF-QADISH,which is not NO Qadish; it even exactly contains the crux of Qadish, that is,
the audience answering YEHE SMEY RABA etc...

About rules, the Ashkenaz ones are essentially the same, execpt that because
they lost the practice of grouping physically close to recite together, many
mourners don't know the rules.

An example: you are not going to tell me that Sephardic Minyanim won't recite
Qadish after Aleinu following Sephirath Ha'Omer, nor that they will recite
it in between, that is, after 'Omer but before Aleinu. But in (too) many
Ashnenaz synagogues, it keeps occurring that soemone does not know the rule,
and starts up Qadish after the Sephira. And why is this perpetuated? Because
when somebody has started Qadish, you may not stop him, you may not ask a Jew
to shut up when he has started proclaiming Who Rules The World. Of course
you can give a Shiur, but YahrZeit occurs only once a year, and some people
don't come in much more often than that, while others would get bored if
hearing that lesson daily...
        Yaaqov 
The solution: become Sephardic, of course, until the Minhagim for the Third
Temple will be set, BEQAROV BEYAEMEINU AMEN!
>-- Ami


>					
>					-Amihood Amir (amir@cc.gatech.edu)
From: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Moshiach Educational Line 1-800-4-MOSHIACH
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:37:51 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Lab

>> There is a new toll-free line with a five minute message about
>> concepts, laws, etc. concerning Moshiach. The message changes weekly,
>> and you can leave a comment or request further information.

> I have a strong feeling that this is a [missionary] line..

No, it's sponsored by Chabad-Lubavitch.

--
Robert A. Levene     Internet: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu
  "/  //  / /"         Bitnet:   RXL1@APLVM
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Davka Graphics
From: Mike S. <MSTBH@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Wednesday, 9 Sep 1992 15:15:21 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

    I am interested in getting Hebrew fonts for Banner Mania.  Someone
  informed me that the best way to do this is by contacting Davka Graphics
  Co.  Can anyone give me their phone number or address?
    It will be greatly appreciated.

Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:15605 soc.culture.soviet:7333 sci.archaeology:2465
From: sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.soviet,sci.archaeology
Subject: Newsflash from Khazaria
Date: 9 Sep 92 15:38:26 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

Since some of you have been interested in the Khazars
in the past, I thought I would post this article from
the Archeology Review.  Its the "From the President" column
of the Archeological Institute of America, Martha Sharp Joukowsky.
Here's another bit of evidence for those of us who are making
up our minds to what extent Eastern European Jews are the
descendants of Khazars.

Posted without permission.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
On a cold and rainy day this past fall, I received a visit from
Murad Gadgievich Magomedov, an archaeologist and university professor
in Daghestan, a tiny autonomous republic in Russia.  He was on a five
day visit and sought encouragement for his ongoing work back home.

With great pride, Murad told me that it was in the ancient region of
Khazaria, the core of which forms the present-day republic,
that Muslims, Christians, Jews, and Pagans lived in harmony from the
fifth to the tenth centuries A.D.  There, he said in the darkness
of medieval Europe, Jewish refugees from Byzantine Hungary, Bulgaria,
Greece, and Armenia found sanctuary.  The region, he said was "like a
bright star of religious tolerance."  Radiating from the great cities
of Belendjer, Semender, and Itil, the religious freedom of Khazaria
continued well after its rulers adopted Judaism in the eigth century.
The kingdom's religious tolerance extended over a large geographic
area - to the Carpathians in the West, as far north as the middle
of modern Russia, south to the Caucasus, and along the east-west
axis between the Volga and Don rivers and the Dnieper River,
including the Crimea.

Murads' pioneering work in the excavation of the great city walls
of Belendjer and Semender has yielded important results, though
the main tomb mounds where the kings were buried have yet to be
opened, and the remains of Itil, once the trade center of Eastern
Europe and located somewhere near the Caspian Sea, have yet to be
found.  Murad has discovered the remains of a Khazar warrior;
the Khazar "Madonna" a small figurine that displays Christian and
Pagan motifs, perhaps representing the Khazar deity Umay; and he
has studied the ancient trade routes between the Black and Caspian
Seas.  These important finds, he says, have begun to illuminate
an exemplary history.

...

------------------------------------------------------------------
the rest is about how he relates this to the recovery of the
region from Soviet rule.

All grammatic and spelling errors are likely to be errors of
my transcription, not the authors' article.

	Seth Rosenthal
From: sg04@ploni.gte.com (Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re:  Not a Charm?
Date: 8 Sep 92 16:37:41 GMT
Reply-To: sgutfreund@gte.com
Organization: GTE Laboratories, Waltham MA

In article <Bu8C6q.M2q@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>, aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:
|> I always thought that a mezuzah was something we fix to our doorposts
|> because the Torah tells us to.  Anything further sounds dangerously
|> close to chassidut!

Which reminds me of the story of a certain "Orthodox scholar" who said he
believed in Torah, but was not so sure about G-d. 

I would say that we do mitzvot because G-d commands us to, and Torah
is the vehicle via which G-d makes his desires known to us.

BTW: I don't know if others were as jarred by this as I was. But one
SCJ commentator said how he felt that the custom of kissing the
mezzuzah was something that should be banned as being too close
to avodah zarah. (and he made a hekesh to the nachash nechoshet).

I wonder where an individual gets the chutzpah to pass judgement on
a minhag accepted by k'lal yisroel for generations. And who
has the right to pass judgement on righteous of this and previous
generations who keep this mihag. And what does individual
perceptions of a minhag have to do with what has to be a cold
intellectual halachic analysis of the basis that underlies a
minhag.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund		 		  sgutfreund@gte.com
GTE Laboratories, Waltham MA			    harvard!bunny!sgutfreund
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish