From: emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Jesus & the Sin of the World
Date: 1 Sep 92 21:25:11 GMT
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA

In article <1992Aug26.130657.7148@ac.dal.ca> hartigan@ac.dal.ca writes:
>
>In article <1992Aug25.185242.8750@tc.fluke.COM>, emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery) writes:
>> It's awesome.  In the death of Jesus, we basically have God making the
>> decision to forgive any and all sins.  This is pure love.  No matter
>> how much and how often we have wronged Him, He has shown us in the death
>> of His Son, that He has chosen in advance to forgive anyone who confesses
>                                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Looks like a condition to me! What happened to unconditional love?

What does the Scripture say?  It says "God so loved the world that He
gave His one and only Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish
but have eternal life" (John 3:16).

It is for *whoever* believes.  No stipulations except believes that Jesus
died for them, confessing their sins.

Analogy:

Big Time Mortgage company was owned by Mr. Big Boss.  Big Boss's son,
was given authority by his father over the company.  Although the son 
was very wealthy due to the success of the company, he was very very kind.  
Instead of spending His untold fortunes on himself, he offered to pay off 
all the outstanding mortgages of the delinquent notes in his father's 
company.  However the son was wise and knew that in doing so, many would
end up right back in the same situation due to poor spending habits and
poor financial management skills.  Therefore, he would also sacrifice
his time to work with these people, to counsel them, to train them, and
to change those behaviors that got them into the mess in the first place.

So the son went to the delinquent borrowers with his benevolent offer.
And oh the joy of those who accepted.  Their burden was gone, their debt
was paid, and even more, Big Boss's son was even going to help them in
their lives and work with them at the expense of his time - and he wasn't
charging them for his service.

However, much to his surpise, the son found great resistance to his 
offer. Some were ashamed at their failure and denied they had spending 
problems.  Some, who were proud, felt humiliated and didn't want to accept
this charity, rather would pay off their debt by themselves.  Others didn't 
trust him and thought if they admitted their problem, that instead of 
paying off their debt, the son would repossess their house.  Others were
offended that he had the audacity to pry into their problems, slammed the
door in his face, telling him to never bother them again.

The son was hurt and perplexed.  Yet he was very benevolent and had already
decided to pay off their debt if they would cooperate.  So he continued
to reach out to them, trying to convince them they he only really wanted
to help them.  At his persistence, some became furious and threatened him,
even though the son had the authority to repossess their house at any
time.  Others, the more he reasoned with them, the more they denied their
dilemma, made excuses, and even put the blame on him for lending them
the money.  Some, however, after a time, swallowed their pride and came 
out and accepted his help.  They received his payment of their debt and
looked at themselves honestly, realizing he was right.  What joy was theirs!

End of Analogy

Now, was the son unfair to those whose deliquent debts didn't get paid 
off?  He had the right, fair and square, to repossess their homes at
any time, for it was his father's money they had borrowed and were
obligated to pay off.  Yet he chose to deny that right and pay off
*anyone's* debt who would receive his help.  And those who would have
nothing to do with him, he even waited patiently for a change of their
heart.  Now, was his motives unloving even though some refused his
offer?  Was he treating them cruely?  I would say no!

Therefore is confessing one's sins too big of a price to pay for receiving
eternal life, forgiveness, eternity never ending of joy, and a Savior
who will work now in this life to transform us and work in us to change
sinful behavior?  Is God cruel for offering this and yet some too proud
to admit their fault?

>Apologies in advance, but this strikes me as silly. Forgiveness is in the mind
>of the forgiver.  If Joe punches me, and I take offense, do I need him to
>be willing to be forgiven before I can forgive him?  No! His attitude is
>irrelevant.  I say to myself, well I'm not going to hold it against him. He 
>may say he wants me to hold it against him. But if I want to forgive him, that
>matters not a whit. You are forgiven, Joe - even if you hate me, I will not
>hold anything against you. 

Yet because of Joe's persistance in hating, the relationship remains
unreconciled.  No healing has taken place and Joe would be miserable
being around the one who forgives him, because of his hate.

Therefore, does it sound unreasonable to accept God's forgiveness and
be reconciled to Him.  Especially with His arms of love opened to
whoever confesses and believes!

>Sean Hartigan
>hartigan@ac.dal.ca

God bless,
-- 
John Emery		"You say we've risen to a new age of light.
emery@tc.fluke.COM       You're telling me what used to be wrong
			 is now right."