From: system@doc.bmd.trw.com
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: The Great Ones -- the sequel and last word from me
Date: 25 Jan 93 15:59:39 MST

Please forgive me for taking up precious additional bandwidth with this
list of replys I got to my message. I must admit I deleted some of the 
messages I got that sided with the Inconsiderate-Great-Ones, including
Phud's carefully edited version of my post. But then, he wasted more bandwidth 
by posting it to the newsgroup, also. So then, monkey see, monkey... What an 
jerk-off, shit-for-brains (attr.Carl) I am. 

I also want to request forgiveness to those of you who felt the same way 
I do, and bothered to e-mail me. I didn't want to include your names, but
it seemed the only way to provide credibility to this posting. 

I am NOT doing this to create more FLAMEAGE. The intent was to do something
drastic to make the Great-Ones see how incredibily inconsiderate they are, and
to get back to actual technical subjects and questions, no matter how stupid
the question may seem. The Mother of Flames to End all Flames. I actually
think it worked to some extent. It seemed this last week the technical 
messages finally exceeded the flameage and discussions of flameage. But
then, as we all, know Phud has left the group. ;-( I really don't think he
has. I think he's out there somewhere lurking, ready to pounce. In fact I
bet he can't wait to edit this message, then we'll see. He can't help it. 
We all know how those egotistical maniacs are, they can't help it. I have to 
say this, at least Phud got the message, apparantly Carl never will get it.
Even when I put it in terms I felt even HE could understand. Go figure.


>"Mark Pizzolato 415-369-9366" <mark@infocomm.com>
>Subject: Re: Oh, GREAT ONES', please help me!!!
>
>What useful did you contribute to the world wide bandwidth utilization by this
>posting.  You are as guilty as those you are complaining about.  If you wanted
>to simply say this to Ehud and Carl, then an E-mail message with two recipients
>would have been appropriate.  Why did the whole world need to see you say this?
>
>Mark Pizzolato - INFO COMM Computer Consulting, Redwood City, Ca
>PHONE:	(415)369-9366	UUCP:  decwrl!infopiz!mark or uunet!lupine!infopiz!mark
>DOMAIN:	mark@infocomm.com

Well, I guess I just wanted to contribute. Do you really think E-mail would
have been as effective? Don't answer. I don't care to know what you think.
One thing I have always wondered, "Why is the E in E-mail capitalized?" Why
not E-Mail, or better yet, e-mail, oh well, I'm sure if there is an answer 
I will hear it.

The bottom line is this: They have set themselves up as Judge, Jury and 
Executioner of WHO should and should not post and WHAT they should or should
not post and HOW they should or should not post it. I feel this is 
inappropriate for a free-forum newsgroup. 

It is terrorist-semantic-intimidation.

It limits, inhibits and eventually eliminates a free-forum. Struggling System
Managers hesitate to ask a question because they are afraid if they don't
phrase it correctly or include the (OBVIOUS! shuh) information they will
have to endure the wrath of the Guru's. NO ONE should be intimidated into
not posting to this medium. NO ONE should have to be subjected to the 
insults, name-calling, sexist, bigoted, filthy language provided by the
ALL-KNOWING-ONES. They are an embarassment to the profession. I am 
embarassed for the Gentlemen and Ladies reading the articles on this newsgroup,
who have to continually endure the strings of filth. All in the name of 
Technical Genius. right! Sure you can say that I contributed, but as before
stated, I was trying to reach them in the manner they MIGHT understand, and
besides I'm a... (well I'll let Carl and Phud fill it in.)

PROBLEM SOLVING has to start somewhere. It can start with on-line help,
with TFM (which we all know are all consuming, have all the answers, and
are easy to understand... ;-0 ). For some, they want to try out their typing
and access to the network, and so, pose an incomplete question. I submit,
they will get the answer they search for, which is, give us more information,
or give us more information, or give us different information, or do you know
what a log file is?. Eventually they will move along the road to solving the
problem. Peacefully, painstakingly, and without added stress they don't need.

Some have posed, that a list of possible information to include when asking
a question be included as a FAQ type of posting. Good Idea. However, just
because the question seems simple, why can't these people simply hit SKIP
and go on to the more difficult things they know so much about? Don't answer.
There will be some kind soul who will give them the answer. DEC people read
and answer questions, as well as, a whole host of others who will answer 
the question a lot more gracefully. The bottom line is: We don't need it! We
never asked them to be the judge, jury and executioners. If you want them 
to answer your question, you e-mail them. (Steve and Mark) Don't worry, you
can still access them, they aren't lost to you.

Personally I kind of like the stupid questions. It makes me feel like I'm not
the only dummy out here trying to do a job. And sometimes I know the answer.
And sometimes I e-mail to the person. But if I don't post the wonderful magic
to the newsgroup, Carl will call me a NEWBIE, even though I have been working
with VMS since 1982, and reading this group for the last 2 years. That's 
because Carl and Phud know EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING YOU WANT TO KNOW,...!

ok, I've said enough. Next time someone asks how to create a directory, tell
them CR/DIR, or point out that it can be found in the on-line help, or
tell them to look in the DCL manual, or tell them "HEY! You don't want to
mess with sysgen parameters unless you know what you're doing!" or let it
go and somebody will answer them.  But, if you choose to try to intimidate 
them by showing how many slang words you know, or how good you are at 
semantic-terrorism, or out-and-out VERBAL ABUSE, you are setting yourself 
up as a major CONTRIBUTOR TO THE SUPPRESSION OF A FREE-FORUM EXCHANGE and 
should take yourself elsewhere.

Sorry this was so long, I don't post often (thank God!), but I read every day.

>
>From: "Disaster planning: Storing your resume on a remote site."
> <JFL@HOBBES.CCA.CR.ROCKWELL.COM>
>Subject: Re: Oh, GREAT ONES', please help me!!!
>
>(rather enjoyable flame deleted)
>
>Anybody interested in a call to censure Carl? I don't think he'll be
>missed if he moves to comp.in.love.with.carl or comp.ask.smart.questions
>or comp.i.am.always.right. Of course, it may get a little lonely for
>him. I'm sure he'll be alone.
>
>At least Ehud is original and often funny. I've got my MFS doll on order. ;-)

At least HE thinks he's funny. I did get a kick out of the gavronmeter scales.
I personally get more kick out of Sabry's postings.

>
>--
>Joe Lawrence                   |"All opinions are mine, not Rockwell's"
>Engineering Support Services   | To do is to be - Nietzsche
>Rockwell International         | To be is to do - Sarte
>jfl@hobbes.cca.cr.rockwell.com | Do be do be do - Sinatra
>
>From:    BRENNAN@COCO.CCHS.SU.OZ.AU (Luke Brennan)
>Subject: Oh, GREAT ONES', please help me!!!
>
>	YES !! :-)  Well said...
>
>	It'll be interesting to see what The Great Ones do :-) :-)

Well, Phud got the message and left (has to do with dishing it out, but
can't take it), and Carl still continues to solve all the worlds VMS 
problems (it's his God-given duty), God help those that dare read.

>
>From: ckhaake@somnet.sandia.gov (Cheryl K Haaker)
>To: ssmith@oz.bmd.trw.com
>
>Good morning, Stan!  
>        and RIGHT ON!!!  I only hope they'll (Mr Gavron & Lydick) listen.
Gavron did, Lydick didn't.
>I've taken to deleting anything posted from SOL.CALTECHetc and that other
> place.

Too bad you have to do that. I don't deny they have a wealth of information
they could share with us. Trouble is, they don't have the good sense to put
it in a form we can live with, which is, "Just answer the question, or
don't."

>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>      Cheryl K. Haaker, ckhaake@sandia.gov   fts (505) 845-8462
>"Due to budgetary constraints, the light at the end of the tunnel
>is being turned off."   - Erik van de Pol
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>From: "Kevin Cavanagh, Tech Analyst, Local 8320" <KCAVANAGH@cbe.ab.ca>
>Message-Id: <01GTP41104K091W86E@CBE.AB.CA>
>
>Good message Stan!!  I enjoyed it.  These guys are the *BIGGEST* bloody
>jerkoffs I have ever encountered.  I only wish I could get my hands on
>them and I'd tear them to pieces!  Might spend time in jail for assault
>and battery but the pleasure would be all mine!
>
>
>From: Robert Gezelter <gezelter@rlgsc.com>
>Subject: Oh, GREAT ONES', please help me!!!
>
>Stan,
> 
>I understand your annoyance! Hopefully, the two of them will get 
>the message about "Courtesy and Civility"!

Sorry, Bob. I don't think so. I think they have a limited vocabulary. Comes
from having their head in the bowels of VMS too long.

> 
>- Bob
>+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| Robert "Bob" Gezelter                       E-Mail:  gezelter@rlgsc.com  |
>| Robert Gezelter Software Consultant         Voice:   +1 718 463 1079     |
>| 35-20 167th Street, Suite 215               Fax:       (on Request)      |
>| Flushing, New York  11358-1731                                           |
>| United States of America                                                 |
>+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>
>From: SYSTEMM@FRED.ALHRG.WPAFB.AF.MIL (System Manager Wuest)
>Subject: RE: Carl and Phud
>
>   Attaboy!  That's telling em!  'Bout time somebody said so.  Congrats!
>
>   I have been thinking for some time that I would post that I'm going to
>   look them up at the next DECUS conference and bust each one in the mouth.
>   Give them a fat lip to chew on for a week.  Give them something to think
>   about in the meantime, too.

Nice idea, but if you've been around many of these types of Genius's (sic) for
very long, you would know that they don't understand MUCH about social graces,
much less about peoples' feelings. Computers and Robots don't have feelings.

>
>==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==
>|  Mike Wuest, Allin1, DDN, & VAX Systems Manager  SYSTEMM@ALHRG.WPAFB.AF.MIL |
>| Disclaimer: Opinions are like ears; everybody has a couple - these are mine!|
>A man with a gun in his home is no threat to you if you aren't breaking into it!
>==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==


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And now, back to the really important issues, like "Why can't I increase my
INDEXF.SYS file on my system disk, by using BACK/INIT/HEADERS= from Standalone
Backup?"

anyone?

Or, does anybody know just exactly when distributed processing will take over,
and the VAX System Manager will fade into the sunset?

Dont answer. I really just want to wonder.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Stan Smith, Vax System Manager		|ssmith@oz.bmd.trw.com (801) 625-8163 |
TRW, Ogden Engineering Operations	+-------------------------------------+
1104 Country Hills Drive		| Opinions expressed, do not belong.  |
Ogden,  Utah       84403		| Defense, so we can have our Space.  |
					+-------------------------------------+
If we couldn't laugh, then we'd all go insane.                                |
				 Jimmy Bufffet (Changes in Latitudes)         |
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Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,vmsnet.misc