From: russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence)
Subject: Re: Bambi Fishing
Organization: WP Group
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 00:41:31 GMT

From article <1992Oct10.191633.4604@pixel.kodak.com>, by young@serum.kodak.com:
ry> You're hoist by your own verbal petard here, Russell, and you know
ry> it.  First, you claim that none of the ARFs you know would DO such
ry> a thing as blow up mailboxes, implying that this attitude applies
ry> to ARFs in general, and then you turn around and attempt to disown
ry> those ARFs who actually DO trash laboratories...and probably blow
ry> up mailboxes.  

For starters, I would appreciate it if you'd refer to animal 
rights advocates like myself as "animal rights advocates", rather 
than as "ARFS".   

ry> Make up your mind, do you speak for ARFs or not?
ry> Are the ARFs you know representative or are they not?

Here in New Orleans, we have several AR organizations that have 
achieved some notable political successes over the past few 
years, including an investigation that led to cessation of 
federal funding for a wasteful, two million dollar military wound 
research project, a statute making dog fighting a felony, and 
some major improvements in the funding and staffing of local 
animal shelters.  I suppose the public support for the local 
organisations numbers well into the thousands, yet we haven't had 
any reports of exploding mailboxes or exploding labs.  Now why is 
it, Rich, that a city like New Orleans with as many AR activists 
as we have, hasn't had an veritable epidemic of terrorist 
activities?   If just ten percent of our animal rights "fanatics"
had blown up a mailbox, such events would have been everyday
occurences.

Perhaps the answer lies in the possibility that most AR activists
prefer to pursue their goals by digging at the truth, rather than
resorting to violence.

As I stated previously, every political movement has it's share 
of individuals who aren't fully committed to the major goals at 
hand, and there may well be some people associated with the AR 
movement would would engage in mailbox bombing, but I'd be the 
first to criticise such actions.  Silly acts of terrorism (ie 
blowing up mailboxes) are unlikely to have positive results.  

ry> And while you're at it, how about addressing the Aspen, Colorado 
ry> demonstrations...I note that, once again, you're notably silent on the
ry> subject.

rl> Why don't you give me some pointers to the literature so that I 
rl> can study the facts for myself?  Without digging very deeply, it 
rl> seems rather safe to conclude that paint and blood throwing 
rl> aren't commonplace occurrences, given the fact that there are 
rl> hundreds of thousands of fur-wearers in NYC, yet no police records
rl> to document any incidents.

ry> I've told you where it happened, and the time of year in which it
ry> occurred.  I've given you a rough idea of which years might be
ry> fruitful starting points.  The action made national TV, so it must
ry> have been an important event in the annals of AR groups everywhere.
ry> It was part of an attempt to have the sale of furs banned within
ry> Aspen city limits.  I'm sure you can find appropriate references
ry> with little trouble...frankly, I'M not concerned enough to be
ry> bothered.

I don't recall you giving me a rough idea of which years such 
incidents may have occurred.  In any case, I'm not interested 
in spending hours in the library tracking down a nebulous event
that you heard about while watching television.   Do the research
yourself and report back.

rl> I was under the impression that persons were innocent until proven
rl> guilty.  You seem to be saying that your unfounded accusations ought
rl> to be accepted as truth until they're falsified.

ry> Indeed, indeed.  Why then do you automatically accuse anti-AR
ry> people of pulling a PR stunt?  The FACTS are that we just don't
ry> know, isn't that right?  Suspicion, however, must fall on those
ry> with motive; the greater suspicion on those with history.

What "history" are you designating here, Rich?   Do you know anyone
who's either confessed to, or been convicted of, blowing up mailboxes?
Perhaps your "history" has more in common with urban legends (like
the stories of paint tossed on fur-wearing women in NYC) than truth.

Would anti-AR "fanatics" have a motive???  Dan told us that the
animal rights folks had circulated a petition and generated some
publicity.  Blowing-up a mailbox might well be the sort of thing
that would generate sympathy for the hunters.  Of course, that's
just speculation tossed out in response to your speculation.  My
personal recommendation is that we cut the crap, and stick with the
known facts.

-- 
Russell Lawrence, WP Group, New Orleans (504) 443-5000
russ@wpg.com   uunet!wpg!russ
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals