HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: BECKS@TAUNIVM.TAU.AC.IL (Sara Beck)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Macavoy
Date: 16 Dec 92 10:37:15 GMT

This is an unabashed rave for R.A. Macavoy and the "Lens of the World"
trilogy, of which the second book , "King of the Dead", is out in hardcover.
This has got to be some of the finest adult fantasy I've ever read.  It stands
every cliche of the field on its head. Great, almost supernatural powers are
no real use, the romantic heroine is such a classic beauty that she routinely
passes for a man, and much of what happens is ambigous and unexplained.  It
is one of the very few fantasy worlds where it seems that real people could
and do live.  It ought to find a wide audience.  --s. beck
From: swf@tools3teradata.com (Stan Friesen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Do you buy books because of their cover?
Date: 11 Dec 92 21:04:02 GMT
Organization: NCR Teradata Database Business Unit

In article <urf.723192833@sw2001>, urf@icl.se (Urban F) writes:
|> No, I haven't, but a good cover can make me pick up a book I maybe
|> wouldn't look closely at otherwise. ...
|> 
|> ... Before I buy them, I read
|> the back cover blurb, the 1:st and the 100:th page to get some feel
|> for them.

This is pretty much what I do also.

Of course this means that if the cover blurb says nothing about the *contents*
of the book [for example "This is a great book" type blurbs], the I simply
*don't* *buy* the book unless I have a good recommendation.

This means that no matter how good the cover art, the cover blurb had better
talk about the book if they want me to buy it!

-- 
sarima@teradata.com			(formerly tdatirv!sarima)
  or
Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
From: matt@physics.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Literary SF
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:32:22
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory (Theoretical Physics Group)
	<bjones-141292111906@130.13.26.216> <wfT=CC@engin.umich.edu>
Reply-To: matt@physics.berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: rcj@engin.umich.edu's message of Wed, 16 Dec 92 16:30:56 EST

In article <wfT=CC@engin.umich.edu> rcj@engin.umich.edu (R o d Johnson) writes:

> Not to mention "Ada," which is one of the great alternate-world
> novels, in my opinion.

Ada certainly appears to be an alternate-world novel---or at least
almost an alternate-world novel.  There's also a dollop of fantasy
mixed in as well: some of the things and events in that novel could
not exist, and could not have happened, in our universe.

I say "seems," though, because there are also some hints that suggest
that this "anti-Terra" isn't alternate at all, but is simply a
different memory, or interpretation, of our world.  

In any case, there is a recognizable genre of alternate world novels,
with its own traditions and conventions, and I don't believe that Ada
can reasonably be said to be part of that genre.  I think it comes
somewhat closer to the tradition of "magic realism," but even there,
it's a bit of a stretch.

I certainly agree that it's a great novel, though, no matter how you
classify it.
--
Matthew Austern                   Just keep yelling until you attract a
(510) 644-2618                    crowd, then a constituency, a movement, a
austern@lbl.bitnet                faction, an army!  If you don't have any
matt@physics.berkeley.edu         solutions, become a part of the problem!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: bulleri@chopin.eng.gtefsd.com (Chris Bulleri)
Subject: Tad Williams
Reply-To: bulleri@chopin.eng.gtefsd.com (Chris Bulleri)
Organization: Contel Federal Systems
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:22:52 GMT


Ok, I really hate to ask this but I haven't heard anything
about his new book in a while, last I heard it was supposed
to come out in Oct.  I haven't seen it yet.  Could someone
let me know what the release date is now.

Yep, I know that Piers Anthony co-wrote it :-) since Tad was
killed in a freak gardening accident. :-) :-)

Chris
From: lpj@col.hp.com (Laura Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Heinlein and "wimmin"
Date: 14 Dec 1992 17:47:24 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpctdkf.col.hp.com

O2NY <O2NY@UNB.CA> writes:
> >.
> Who do those women want to have babies with? Yes the answer is men!
> Men also want to children. Heinlein promotes the idea that ALL humans
> be they male or female, want to have children. Frankly, I don't see
> what is wrong with that. 

What's wrong with that is, it isn't true. 

That is, it's not wrong (obviously!!) to want children. It's "wrong"
(inaccurate, not morally wrong, I mean) to portray all people as 
wanting to have children because all people
DON'T want to have children (I don't. QED). So when you read your first 
Heinlein about
somebody whose goal in life is to have children, you think "ah, a good
book. I notice the main character wants children." When you read your
tenth Heinlein about somebody whose goal in life is to have children,
you think "Hey, I'm getting tired of all these characters having the
same goal in life."

Now do you get it, guys??? I'm not propounding some feminist manifesto,
I'm agreeing with all those other people who say Heinlein only writes
one character. I LIKE Heinlein books. I just think I'd like them better
if he'd branched out a bit more.
-- 
Laura Johnson
lpj@col.hp.com
Opinions expressed are my own, but may be licensed for a nominal fee.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Re: Anarchy in S.F.
Keywords: Anarchy
Organization: People's Front of Judea
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 22:04:18 GMT

In article <BzIG2K.3xD@world.std.com> rjk@world.std.com (robert j kolker) writes:
>I can think of two SF novels that have anarchy or anarchic societies as a
>theme and context. They are:
>
>	THE DISPOSSESSED by U.LaGuin
>	INHERIT THE STARS by Hogan
>
>Can you good folks think of any others?

Heinlein's _The_Moon_is_a_Harsh_Mistress_ should be at the top of
your list. Oh, and are you sure you mean _Inherit_the_Stars_?
That one didn't seem to have much about anarchy (that I can
recall). Perhaps you mean _The_Two_Faces_of_Tomorrow_, where
Earthers try to impose laws on an anarchic colony?
-- 
Andrew Solovay    
                "I know that, in America and under capitalism,
                 I am the freest woman in history."
                                --- Camille Paglia
From: goldberg@NYMC.EDU (RANDY_GOLDBERG)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Asimov/Silverberg's _Nightfall_
Date: 15 Dec 92 20:32:29 GMT

From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)

>I just picked this up three for a dollar at the library thrift shop, and
>am wondering if it is worth reading or will it cast a shadow on my fond
>memories of the original short story.

 I was severely disappointed by this book (almost as much as I was by the
 positively atrocious movie version - yeccccchhhhhh!).  Bob Silverberg took
 one of the most classic short stories in the history of SF (IMHO), and
 turned it into a fairly pedestrian novel.  Most of the interpersonal stuff
 is expanded to the point that it becomes trivial - it's just page-filler.
  The meat of the story is gone.  I'd hold on to those memories, and dump
 the book in a box someplace.  At least YOU didn't waste $19.95 on it!

 Cheers,
  Randy
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Recommendation wanted: Books about magicians 
From: hairy@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Phil Anderson)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 09:53:14 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Lethargy Inc.


In article <9212150909.AA00186@rutgers.edu> mp17@RULHP1.LEIDENUNIV.NL writes:

  > In an earlier posting I asked for recommendations on books about magicians.
  > Listed below are the responses I received by e-mail.

I note in your list a most distressing lack of any mention of Randel 
Garret's Lord D'Arcy series. ("Murder & Magic", "Too Many Magicians", 
and a couple of other titles).

Magic is an applied science in a parallel-world Angevin Empire.
 
 ----------------------------------------------
 Phil Anderson  ***  hairy@sloth.equinox.gen.nz
 ----------------------------------------------
       "No-one is equal to anyone else!"
From: c188-cr@po.berkeley.edu (Chua Hak Lien)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Good Fantasy was Re: Dragonlance
Date: 11 Dec 1992 23:48:59 GMT
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: po.berkeley.edu

What I find lacking in all the T$R fantasy books is, almost paradoxically,
imagination. In the case of Tad Williams and Raymond Feist's earlier
works, the cultures and background of the world catch one's attention.
I guess I'm part of the group of "hard"-fantasy, where not only must
there be a good plot and good characterisations, the world must also
be believable and fresh. T$R just relies on a stale and boring rehashed
game-world, with nothing really appealing or captivating. Pick
up a book on culture, guys! You'll find tools, customs, beliefs, 
superstitions, myths etc. Some of the writers really aren't that bad,
but seem to be working within the confines of the game world.

Chua
+==+

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: YANJUNA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu
Subject: Re: Rama Reveiled by A.C. Clarke
Organization: Yale University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 01:05:15 EST

In article <dpn2.217.724563762@po.CWRU.Edu>
dpn2@po.CWRU.Edu (Damien P. Neil) writes:
 
>
>In article <MATT.92Dec16164612@physics2.berkeley.edu> matt@physics2.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern) writes:
>>In article <102397@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>>
>>> >The first Rama book was BORING.  People land, people gawk at the
>>> >scenery without really finding anything out, people kill monkeys,
>>> >people leave.  There's no conflict (except for that last part about
>>> >the monkeys), it's just they look around and leave.  They don't
>>> >even find much out about the aliens--just that they're THERE.
>>
>>Actually, in fact, the characters in the book do find out something
>>important about the aliens: they are beyond human comprehension.
>
>This is what makes me despise the later Rama books. The alien's motives are
>uncovered, which completely destroys the feeling of awe that Rendezvous gave
>me. One thing that Clarke has always been good at (which he loses in the
>later Ramas) is creating aliens that feel truly _alien_. If you read the
>book (can't remember the title) about the making of 2001, you see how he
>went through a series of ideas as to what would be beyond the star gate --
>and settled on what, IMHO, was the best choice: to make the aliens utterly
>incomprehensable to us.
>
   I think this tension exists if you consider Clarke's work as a whole
(I think I read about 75% of his fiction output.)  On one hand, he wants
to be clear, writing an "engineer" type of fiction, where everything
is logical and explainable (e.g. "Earthlight", "Island in the Sky"
"Fountains of Paradise") while on the other hand he also wants to explore
the implicit mysticism of a truly alien being ("Rendezvous with Rama"
"2001", etc.)  Given his first impulse, his desire to write sequels where he
explains what's going on is perfectly natural; and out of my respect to him,
I am willing to give him a chance.  (For instance, I really enjoyed 2010 )
The problem is that once something "mystical" is left unexplained, then
readers set their own expectations, and if the explanation doesn't meet the
reader's private
level of expectations, the reader is disappointed and even offended.  (Though
it's his creation; as long as he isn't making it completely stupid, crass,
and commercial, let him do what he wants.  Even if it's not upto our "private"
expectations, it's always interesting to see a brilliant thinker lay down
his ideas.)
  Of course the problem with Rama sequels is exactly that, for the most part,
IMO, it IS crass, commercial, and lot of times, stupid.  This will probably not
be enough to stop me from buying "Revealed"; there are still some nuggets
in the books, and who knows, maybe his ending for "Rama" will have a truly
interesting idea.
 
                 Junsok Yang
From: steinly@topaz.ucsc.edu (Steinn Sigurdsson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Brin answers
Date: 12 Dec 92 19:18:36
Organization: Lick Observatory/UCO
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: topaz.ucsc.edu


There's been a rash of questions about Brin's upcoming books
and the Brin-Feist connection so I e-called him to find out what
was up:

"Glory Season [Brin's new book, set in a "new universe"] will
ship in July. A big book, almost as long as Earth, but very
different." [it's grown since I saw the manuscript, can't wait 
to read the ending!]

"starting the nex Uplift book as we speak... tentative title 
 --- Brightness Reef."  [last time I talked to him he was just
starting Brightness Reef and that was some months ago - would
recommend people not hold their breath ;-) ]


 Re: the Fesit cross-overs: 
"I did a hat-doff to Ray using one of his character names
in my story "The River of Time"... and Ray had an innkeeper
named Brin in Magician, I think. Were there other cases?
We [Brin & Feist] now live very near each other, once more, so
better keep the peace!"



|  Steinn Sigurdsson	|I saw two shooting stars last night		|
|  Lick Observatory	|I wished on them but they were only satellites	|
| steinly@lick.ucsc.edu |Is it wrong to wish on space hardware?		|
| "standard disclaimer"	|I wish, I wish, I wish you'd care - B.B. 1983	|
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: cpf@alchemy.TN.Cornell.EDU (Courtenay Footman)
Subject: Re: LENSMAN?
Organization: /usr/local/lib/news/organization
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 00:02:59 GMT

In article <1g8p60INN77j@agate.berkeley.edu> sfd@soda.berkeley.edu (Scott Drellishak) writes:
>I agree.  Here's a koan to consider: GOOD Golden Age space opera is
>the same as BAD Golden Age space opera.  Doc was the first, and
>deserves credit, but the reason space opera is fun is because it's
>*so* silly.  "QX" indeed.
I wish this were true.  Obviously (?) you have never read bad Golden
Age space opera, or even mediocre Golden Age space opera.  I have
managed to forget the really bad stuff I have read;  for comparison to
Doc Smith, though, try John W. Campbell's "Wade, Arcot & Morley"
series.  Smith is greatly superior.  (For one thing, the species
that Wade, Arcot & Morley belong to apparently reproduces by budding,
as it only has one sex;  for another, Smith realizes that it takes
some effort to turn a scientific discovery into an invention.)
JWC was generally considered to be the second best author of 
Golden Age space opera;  believe me; you do not want to try the
third.   (The third was probably Edmond Hamilton;  some of his
later stuff was decent space opera, but his early books are 
indescribable.  (At any rate, *I* can't describe them!) )

Doc Smith wrote good space opera, not bad, and there is a huge
difference.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Courtenay Footman			I finally got back on the net.

cpf@alchemy.ithaca.ny.us		Now I will never get anything done
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jdnicoll@prism.ccs.uwo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)
Subject: Re: Heinlein and "wimmin"
Organization: University of Western Ontario, London
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 16:49:38 GMT

In article <11DEC92.18114973.0038@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> O2NY000 <O2NY@UNB.CA> writes:
>In article <1992Dec11.195651.24178@julian.uwo.ca> jdnicoll@prism.ccs.uwo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
>>In article <11DEC92.15625014.0172@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> O2NY <O2NY@UNB.CA> writes:
>>>			 If there is any greater contribution to
>>>humankind than procreating, I would really like to know what it is.
>>
>> Technological  innovation is one obvious example. 

	Example (taken  from English industrialisation)  deleted
>>.
>I don't really see how this is an obvious example. If perhaps this
>engineer did not develope the advances of which you speak, is it not
>probable that someone else would make these advances eventually?

	Perhaps.  Perhaps  not. Given the uneveness of engineering
and technological skill distribution in the world, technological
change doesn't appear inevitable. In  any case, someone has to be
the  person to introduce change:  if everyone  decided to leave
innovation to someone  else, nothing  would produced except  children
whose lives might  well be shorter because of the lack of technology
(Be it domestication of animals, agriculture, railroads or whatever).
The hypothetical engineer might have  added 400 man-years of lifespan
to the pool of  available  lifespan by having children (50 yrs x 8
surviving children): if the same effort put  into engineering resulted
in an extra year of lifespan  for at  least a factory-full of people,
his or her net contribution to the  sum of all man-years lived  could be 
greater than the contribution the  individual could have  made by breeding
during their  reproductive years.

	If  the people having  children have  them  too  fast,  they
could overcome  thecarrying  capacity of their  environment  badly
enough  to *reduce* the  longterm carrying capacity (Look  at North
Africa, or the collapse of  Mayan  culture); in  that  case, having
kids  could result in  a  net reduction  of  population levels. 

							James  Nicoll
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton)
Subject: Re: Frozen sf writers (was Re:  Forward to Foundation (Asimov) )
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 02:14:50 GMT

>In article <alien.01ur@acheron.amigans.gen.nz> alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz (Ross Smith) writes:
>>
>>Something I've often wondered about : Does anyone know if any SF writers
>>have been frozen after their deaths? It sounds like the sort of thing an

I think a more serious problem is SF writers who are frozen before their
deaths, and keep churning out the same book, time and time again.

Of course many writers publish or write books after their deaths.
L. Ron Hubbard is the only one to manage to edit books after dying!
-- 
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: write@eff.org (Glen Cox)
Subject: Re: Auto-buy lists
Originator: write@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 17:43:38 GMT

Okay, I'll jump in on this one as well.  Here's my auto-buy list:

Porsche
Ferrari
Ca...

What?  Excuse me?  Not THAT kind of auto?  Oh.  Oh.  Okay.  Nevermind.

=== The part of Emily Littela was played by glen ===

ps. Here's the real list (in alphabetical order):

Iain M. Banks (with or without the middle initial)
Michael Bishop
James P. Blaylock
Pat Cadigan
Jonathan Carroll
Tom Holt
Barry Hughart
Ellen Kushner
Pat Murphy
Tim Powers
Geoff Ryman
Lucius Shepard
Lew Shiner
Dan Simmons
Bruce Sterling
Howard Waldrop

-- 
/== Glen E. Cox =============================================================\
|  write@eff.org  |  CURRENTLY SEEKING: Rex Stout, Three at Wolfe's Door      |
|  GEnie: G.COX3  |                     P.G. Wodehouse, My Man Jeeves         |
| DELPHI: MRWRITE |                     Ed McBain, Give the Boys a Great...   |
From: mab@buphy.bu.edu (Michael Burstein)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Frozen sf writers (was Re:  Forward to Foundation (Asimov) )
Date: 18 Dec 92 13:43:52 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <alien.01ur@acheron.amigans.gen.nz> alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz (Ross Smith) writes:
>
>Something I've often wondered about : Does anyone know if any SF writers
>have been frozen after their deaths? It sounds like the sort of thing an
>SF writer would want, but I've never heard of any examples.
>
>(Or maybe I'm just wishfully thinking that we may yet see some new
>Asimov or Heinlein yarns in a few centuries ... :-)

I don't know about any others, but I do know that both Asimov and
Heinlein were cremated with their ashes scattered. Heinlein's were
scattered off to sea.

For more on why Heinlein didn't want to be frozen, check _Requiem_ ed.
by Yoji Kondo and _Great Mambo Chicken and the Transhuman Condition_ by
Ed Regis. There's a passage in the second book when a group of
cryogenists are freezing an anonymous fellow named Bob, and they hear
over the radio that the other Bob, Heinlein, has died. This was not fiction.

-- 
Michael A. Burstein
Physics Department, Boston University         mab@buphy.bu.edu
590 Commonwealth Ave.                         (617) 353-9437 (o)
Boston, MA 02215                              (617) 735-9433 (h)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: oz@nexus.yorku.ca (Ozan Yigit)
Subject: Re: Rama Reveiled by A.C. Clarke
Organization: York University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:33:31 GMT

Matthew P Wiener writes [regarding RWR]:

>Exactly.  It's called "sense of wonder", something science fiction
>likes to pride itself on, but missing far too often.  RWR is one of
>the ultimates, lifting most readers to an astonished awe and joy.

I agree whole-hartedly. I consider it one of the finest I have ever read,
and I *distincly* remember the *lift* Matthew is referring to. It also was
my first Clarke, and I remember standing on the grounds of York university,
clutching the paperback that I had just finished reading, wondering how
thank the person who had recommended it to me.

>I, for one, absolutely refuse to look at the sequels.

Same here.

... oz
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: std_mcgill@hg.uleth.ca
Subject: !@#!%## sequels
Reply-To: std_mcgill@hg.uleth.ca
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:28:43 GMT

Coul d anyone please tell me if they've read (or found0 ) sequels to 
Diane Duane's _Door into Shadow_ and David R. Palmer's _Threshold_.
I've been lookinfg for these for years, and haven't been abole to find
them up North.  Perhaps they'r e out in the States?

Micki MCGill
University of Lethbridge

-If I die of vanity promiseme you';ll bury me someplace I don't wanna be.
You'll pick pick me up and transport me unceremoniously, away from the
swollen city breeze, garbage-bag trees, whispers of diease and the acts 
of enormity and lower me slowly and gently and properly .  Get Ry Cooder 
to sing my eulogy, at the hundredth meridian where the great plains
begin----The Tragically Hip
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: whit@carson.u.washington.edu (John Whitmore)
Subject: Re: Auto-buy lists
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 02:47:46 GMT

	Okay, most of the best authors have showed up, including
a few non-well-known favorites of mine (Lloyd Biggle, Jr., and
Rudy Rucker).  These two authors, from my must-buy list, haven't
been mentioned.  

Edgar Pangborn

Daniel M. Pinkwater 
	(_The Avocado of Death_, _Lizard Music_, etc.)

	John Whitmore



Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ahill@boi.hp.com (Andy Hill)
Subject: Re: Why Heinlein's folk want babies
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 22:01:58 GMT
Reply-To: ahill@boi.hp.com
Organization: LaserJets by Bill & Dave
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Dave Schweisguth (dcs@neutron.chem.yale.edu) wrote:
>
> So, why do Heinlein's folk want colonies?
> 
The real question is "Why do Heinlein's folk want to colonize?".

They want to do that because they can't stand crowds, and the reduction
in personal freedoms that result from crowding too many people into too
small of a space.  To mangle a quote from "Time Enough for Love":
"If you put too many animals into a cage, they will go insane.  Man is the
only animal who does this voluntarily to himself".  This is the viewpoint
of colonist-type material - a city-dweller mentality would have a hard
time understanding the quote.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written