From: Montague_Kevin@Tandem.com (Kevvy Kev)
Subject: Re: Plot holes in Alien^3 (*S
Organization: In Effect Enterprises
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:31:15 GMT

In article <BuDqHD.IH6@comp.vuw.ac.nz>, Philip.Banks@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Philip Richard Banks) writes:

>    Watch the scene again sometime. The behvior of the helmet and the noises it
> makes are all consistant with it being made, faceplate and all, of plastic.

Nah.  I've seen this movie enough times that my eyes glaze just thinking 
about this scene.  You can't say definitely What the helmet was made of. 
Just like. . .
 >    Because in the scene where they are released the tubes are rocking slightly
> on the floor of the medical lab making glass type noises. Given that it is a 
> transparent material, reasonably strong, and inert to alot of chemicals glass
> seems a good choice.

This is another unfounded assumption; consider the fact that your description
above could apply equally to the helmet, which you describe as plastic.

> >All of which is so far beyond the point that it's ridiculous.  Look: the 
> >idea here is that these creatures can secrete/spit/bleed a fluid ("acid" is
> >probably not a good word) that is Incredibly corrosive.  Eats through every-
> >thing. . .several layers of a spaceship, an environmental protective suit,
> >flesh, pens. . .everything.  It went through all of that, it would've gone 
> >through the holding tubes in _Aliens_ or the cryotubes in ^3.  Period.  The
> >writers f--ked up.
> 
>    Why isnt acid a good word? In every reference to the creatures biology its
> circulatory fluid is referred to as molecular *acid* which oxidizes on contact
> with air after the creatures death. Oxidization is standard behavior for acids.


!!! You're making me dig deep. . .I believe what Bishop said was 
something like, "after the creature's death its blood oxidizes."  Whatever. 
I noticed this the first time I saw the movie, but didn't have a problem with
it; I just think the term "molecular acid" is first of all technobabble (what
the hell is that, anyway?) and second of all a layman's knee-jerk description
of a liquid that is highly corrosive.  As you point out, many alkaline 
solutions are equally nasty (NaOH, etc.).  Recall that this started when 
Dallas, amazed at the progress the fluid made eating through the spaceship,
said something like. . ."I've never seen anything like that. . .except for
some kind of molecular acid."  Dallas' knee-jerk, which everyone picked up
and ran with.  Hardly a reliable source. 

> >Finally. . .I may not be the best chemist
> >in the world, but I find it hard to conceive of a substance that eats through
> >Everything In The World With Frightening Speed Except Glass.  Assuming, of
> >course, that the substances were glass.  Not.
> 
>     I can conceive of quite a few substances actually that have the property of
> eating through most anything but glass. Try the following :-
> 
> HCl (Hydro chloric acid)  -86 degrees C
> H2SO4 (Sulphuric acid)
> HNO3 (Nitric acid)

No, no, and no.  None of these is anywhere near strong enough to produce
the effects that we saw in the _Alien_ movies.  In fact, the strongest of
the commonly known acids is HF, and even it wouldn't behave like that.  And
guess what?  HF is what's used to etch glass.  I don't want to belabor the
point, but I'm pretty sure that if you're talking about straight "corrosive
strength," or reactivity, if it'll do what we saw, it'll eat through glass
as well.
By the way, acids are hardly the only class of materials that 
oxidize.  Keep in mind that there are a couple of ways to categorize what 
exactly an acid is.

> Then add alkalis (sp?) and you have a whole range of materials that only glass
> is pratical to hold. There is nothing to indicate that molecular acid is any
> different in this respect.

Sure, this was my point in saying why call it an acid.  Definitely a nit, 
probably not worth picking further.  There are some really corrosive bases,
and some of the organic acids are pretty strong. Again, I'm not sure exactly 
what "molecular acid" is, but you'd have to sit down and expend some effort 
to design an acid. . .or, more accurately, a given solution. . .that is as 
corrosive as the Aliens' blood, but couldn't get through glass.  I can think
of two acids off the top of my head that Can eat glass: HF, and HI.  Neither 
of those is strong enough to do what the Aliens' blood does.
 
>    Thus I say the writers didn't make a mistake in Aliens but rather with
> Alien^3. 

Haha.  No argument, there. . .

> A more reasonable entry point is they have to acid burn their way in
> would have been through the metal casing of the cryosleep tube. 

Sorry, I don't understand this sentence.

> But then I
> suppose whats a little acid through glass snafu given the 'how did the egg
> get there?' blunder...

OooDear. . .NOW you've done it. . .
 
Kevvy Kev
"The entire world revolves around this wretched Alien."
 -H.R. Giger