HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: banarji@unixg.ubc.ca (Ajai Banarji)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: News-Dec 20
Date: 20 Dec 92 20:02:10 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca


			News-Dec 20

From Indian Consulate, Vancouver up to Dec 18

INDIA
  	A panel of Supreme Court judges who had been appointed to look into the
complaints against their fellow judge Justice Ramaswami have reported that
the complaints are valid and have recommended his dismissal. These complaints
relate to financial irregularities when he was serving as CJ of the Punjab and Haryana high court. It is probably the first time such action has been 
contemplated against a Supreme Court judge in India.
 	The BJP-sponsored no confidence motion is being debated in parliament.
Both Congress and non-BJP opposition have been attacking the BJP, though the
latter have also been criticising the government's inability to prevent the
crisis. BJP leader Vajpayee has apologised publicly for the destruction.

GENERAL
	The UAE government has expelled a large number of foreigners who were
said to be living there illegally. They include about 5000 Pakistanis and 300
Indians. They had been detained after participating in demonstrations 
protesting against the destruction of the Babri Masjid.
From: nkumar@HP-UX (Niranjan Kumar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: HELP : question on MCI Mail.
Date: 18 Dec 92 21:53:27 GMT


Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:40640 soc.culture.pakistan:18087
From: gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: "...... to castrate the Hindus ..."
Date: 14 Dec 1992 01:45:53 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
NNTP-Posting-Host: neuron.tamu.edu

In article <1992Dec13.212714.905@u.washington.edu> qzuhair@milton.u.washington.edu (Newton) writes:
>
>        To tell the truth, I do not have sufficient knowledge of idealogies
>and rituals of hinduism, but from what you have stated above, it seems that
>the laws of hinduism and its rituals were changed in the past and are still 
>being modified. But, an essential feature of religous doctrines should be
>that those doctrines are appliciable in all times and only then the 
>completeness of the basic religous principles is assured. SO,  why the
>doctrines of hinduism were modified in various ages?
>

Because there is no such organized religion as "Hinduism" (though lately,
one is cropping up). The word "Hindu" was coined by the Mughals(?) to 
lump all the similar cultures in India under one name (Just as the 
chinese, japanese, phillipinos etc. are all lumped under the word 
"oriental") . I don't think there is any scripture among the Hindus 
that mentions the word "hindu".  However, all Indians who were called 
Hindu have now accepted this label despite the fact that there are 
large differences between say, a hindu in N.India and a hindu in 
S.India (which however are reducing as cross migration and breeding
between the two take place -- and this will probably result in a 
complete homogenization of Hindu beliefs). 

The ancient Hindus were truly secular in the sense that they could 
permit other beliefs to mingle with theirs. No rigid doctrines are 
established and hence a lot of them have changed (or dissappeared
altogether) over time. 

The essential feature that you mention "being applicable at all times"
is a feature of only organized religions.  It does not form a feature
for many other religions. Apart from Hinduism, even Budhism is extremely 
flexible in its doctrines (not the basic ones but the more superfluous 
ones) even though it always conjures up images of tight lipped orthodox
monks. 

regards,
--   
   ______ ______ ______ ______ __  |\/\/\/|
    ____/  __  /  __  /  __  /  /  |  \  /|  LIFE's COMPLEX - IT HAS
   / __   /   /  /   /  /   /  /   | (o)(o)  REAL & IMAGINARY PARTS.
  /   /  /   /   ___/  __  /  /    C      _) 
_____/ _____/ __/   __/ __/ ______/ | \___|  
E-mail - gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu       |   /   All Std. Disclaimers apply.





 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: ramasubr@ecn.purdue.edu (SUBU Ramasubramanian)
Subject: Who destroyed the mosque?
Reply-To: ramasubr@ecn.purdue.edu
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 21:15:10 GMT

Hey,

How can we assume that the stupid mob was a Hindu mob?
Why couldn't it be that a bunch of muslims who wanted the mosque rebuilt by the government destroyed it?

Subu
From: pjn+@cs.cmu.edu (P J Narayanan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Babri Masjid demolished
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:37:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.Bz9IE3.AL0.1
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <Bz8027.8K3@cs.psu.edu> narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana) writes:
>In article <Bz7x9D.Kp3.1@cs.cmu.edu> pjn+@cs.cmu.edu (P J Narayanan) writes:
>>In article <1766@esl.ESL.COM> rajan@bambam.uucp (Rajan Kanitkar) writes:
>>>In article <Bz2F2t.6uv.1@cs.cmu.edu> pjn+@cs.cmu.edu (P J Narayanan) writes:
>>>
>If Pjn can tell us (define for us) what is hinduism, i can
>appreciate it. More importantly, I would like to know what
>is pacifist hinduism. I don't think evengandhi had such a
>notion of hinduism. From all that I read,  Gandhi's notion 
>of hinduism can be summed up in three words. "Truth is Brahman"
>That is not anything new that Gandhi came about. It is the the
>soul and the essence of the Upanishads. I would like to know from 
>PJN what is pacifist hinduism? why should any one convert to one
>such? Indeed how does one know that one is not a hindu?

I have no intention of defining Hinduism or trying to convert people
to it. The Hinduism that I have come to understand by living as one
for over a quarter of a century is pacifist in nature. I have no
intention of issuing "fatwas" about who a good "Hindu" is. I, however,
am of convinced that the logical extension of the path of BJP/VHP/RSS
combine will attempt to do so and will turn against what they call bad
Hindus after they are "done with" the Muslims one way or other. I
haven't found any convincing arguments to convince me otherwise from
the supporters of the B/V/R combine. I will resent all attempts to
decide who a good Hindu is, whether or not I am declared a good Hindu.
Similarly, I resent and oppose the B/V/R combine's attempt to define
who a good citizen is based on religion though I seem to be on the
favoured side so far.

>Please please, can you explain, so that some of us who are
>hard put to understand conceptual aspects of Hindu philosophical
>thought may have to worry a little less. 
>...kt

Your attittude of sarcasm and derision as displayed here only makes me
believe you have no better argument.


PJN

-- 
---
Robotics Institute, CMU			pjn@cs.cmu.edu
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
---
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: goyle@tortie.me.uiuc.edu (Vipin Goyle)
Subject: Re: Muslims and Vande Mataram
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:02:43 GMT

brao@pollux.usc.edu (Bapa Rao) writes:



>Muslim leaders' opposition to Vande Mataram is related to
>the association of that song with the novel Ananda Math 
>by Bankim Chandra Chaterjee in which the author proposes
>an alliance of Hindus and the British to defeat the Muslims.
>This information of mine comes from Nirad Chaudhary's
>Autobiography of an Unknown Indian.  

The song, if I am right, is from _Ananda Math_, right?
From what I could remember of that story (which was confined to
reading the Amar Chitra Katha version -- not exactly THE
definitive version, I admit), it was Hindus vs Brits.
Maybe there was something about Muslims collaborating with
the Brits, but I can't remember.

>Thus, while the song itself seems pretty innocent (to me
>at any rate) Muslims may see anti-Muslim connotations.

I thought it was a pretty beautiful song actually, sort of
the Indian version of  _America, the Beautiful_ 

>Perhaps some knowledgeable Bengali or Muslim can comment
>on this. 

I hope someone will. I'd hate to think that what many of us
know about the Vande Mataram issue is confined to my hazy 
recollections of an Amar Chitra Katha comic.

-srinivas sunder
sunder@crhc.uiuc.edu

(posting from a friend's account)
--
---------------------------------------------------------------
 Vipin Goyle			Engg. Psych. Research Lab.     
 305 N.Lincoln Ave, #S205	Dept. of Mech. & Indust. Engg. 
 Urbana, IL 61801		U of Illinois at U-C	       
 (217)367-1219			(217)333-5140 or (217)244-8300 
 v-goyle@uiuc.edu		MC - 244		       
---------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:40521 soc.culture.pakistan:18027
From: shafqat@neuro.duke.edu (Saad Shafqat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Ayodhya: symptom, not malady.
Date: 12 Dec 92 19:38:31 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.indian
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.





While the events of Ayodhya are reprehensible in principle, we must
all - Hindu Muslim alike - recognize it as merely a symptom and not
the malady itself. It was a catharsis long overdue.  No contemporary 
person is at fault, and certainly not Lal Krishan Advani nor his followers.  
My heart goes out to those of India's citizenry who had sought to hold the
Indian secular creed to a high standard, only to see it crash in Ayodhya.
But I urge them and everyone else to recognize that the problem is not
religious intolerance.  No, no, no.  The root cause of Ayodhya, the
malady behind the symptom, is poverty, a chronic illness that breeds 
misery, intolerance, communal strife, hate, bigotry, insecurity, 
malice and impatience.  Do not blame the people.  Blame instead the events 
and individuals that have led them to their poverty.  Conversely, to 
redress, do not ask for tolerance and calm.  Ask instead for wealth and 
affluence and peace will follow.

Blame the Mughals - those idiot-kings that let the industrial revolution
pass them by.  Blame the desi intelligentsia - that unthinking elite
coterie that advocates democracy as a universal elixir but has still
not learned, centuries after the fact, that manufacturing generates
wealth.  And please blame the socialists, typified by the communists
of Kerala, who seek to acquire select Western statistics but bear
contempt for the creation of wealth.  What fools, chasing some
arbitrary literacy rate and some random index of infant mortality as 
a goal in itself - a ridiculous and pathetic holy grail of demography.  

And as though Ayodhya weren't bad enough, temples were destroyed
and Hindus were harrassed in Pakistan.  I would have advocated a
public flogging of all those involved, except that I know they
cannot be blamed.  The misery of poor people drives them to ransom
their sense of honor and to offer their pride as a hostage to
some inane, meaningless and artificial conflict, blown out of all
proportion by an unparalleled myopia.  It is the story of the
entire Third World, excepting those Singapores and Malaysias who
sought to manufacture and create wealth and escaped the pettiness
that is the lot of India and Pakistan.



Saad Shafqat.


--
From: ganesh@indetech.com (Ganesh Pandian)
Subject: ROOM FOR RENT - NEWARK/FREMONT AREA
Organization: Independence Technologies, Inc. Fremont, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:58:35 GMT

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Phone: (510)438-8723(W)
       (510)657-6593(H)
-- 

_______________________________________________________________________________

____*_  Ganesh Pandian              ganesh@indetech.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: akash@sol.berkeley.edu (Akash R. Deshpande)
Subject: Re: Do we need a religion?
Organization: U.C. Berkeley -- ERL
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 04:43:42 GMT

In article <1992Dec20.204844.11395@news2.cis.umn.edu> crick@htlv.med.umn.edu (Ed Crick (CD)) writes:
>In article <1992Dec19.232820.25605@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> akash@crescent.berkeley.edu (Akash R. Deshpande) writes:
>>|> How would you explain a solar eclipse?
>>
>>I don't need to. Remember, I am blind for the sake of artument, and
>>can't see no eclipses.
>>-Akash
>
>OK Mr (Dr) Defil's Advocate.  Propose an alternate hypothesis that has merit.
>
>Ed
>

Why? There are no eclipses. Unless of course you want to prove to
me that there are eclipses... Here we go again.

-Akash
From: ar_jolly@vax.cns.muskingum.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: ASSISTANCE REQD!
Date: 16 Dec 92 07:40:16 GMT
Organization: Muskingum College

Greetings!
       1)  I need some information regarding customs rules in India. I will
be entering India at New Delhi, with a word processor and a one way ticket.
I do intend to return, but via some other nations where I will be studying,
that is why I have not bought a return ticket. I will be bringing the 
word-processor out in two months. Will I have to pay duty?
	2)  What is the address of the Indian Embassy in Chicago?
	3)  Thank you very much for your assistance, and I would like to take
this opportunity to wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
	
					Arjun Jolly
p.s: I am an Indian Citizen!
From: mece1e3@Jane.UH.EDU (Arindam Ghosh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Mandir/Maszid/Girza/Gurudwara
Date: 14 Dec 92 23:20:01 GMT
Reply-To: mece1e3@Jane.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
NNTP-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu

In article <92349.151934RIPBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>, <RIPBC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>This reminds me of an amusing story.  One of my students, an orthodox Jew,
>asked my help in the following problem.  He liked Indian music, but as
>a Jew he was not allowed to listen to religious music of another religion.
>What should he do?  I advised him to stick to instrumental music, the
>rest was quite risky.   (Occasionally, but not often, risque.  :-)  )
>
>Rohit Parikh

Would you please ask him to explain based on what scriptures did he come to
such a conclusion? The Judaism, as far as my knowledge after taking a class
on Modern Jewish Thought goes, are very lenient as far as any other religion
is concerned. Most probably the misunderstanding is caused by misinterpretation
of some verses of Bible. I think the confusion is due to the fact that the
music can be considered as worship of "graven images".  However, as long as
he does not consider it as prayer and treats it as music I do not forsee any
problem.  If he is a really orthodox jew (I suspect so, reformists would not
have asked this) may be he can consult the rabbi on this.
Love
Arindam
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
From: shalan@engr.latech.edu (Shivram Halan)
Subject: Re: WORLD POPULATION CRISIS!/ayodhya
Reply-To: shalan@engr.latech.edu
Organization: Louisiana Tech University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 03:04:55 GMT

<From sundar@informix.com (Ramanathan Sundararajan)
<g as the persons killed are neither you nor your LOVED ones , your
<LOGIC is fine.  I hope you would never say such stuff , in your entire
<LIFE time!! LIVE forever - 

<jeete raho beta...
	
	sorry babe,, I don't understand the last line and neither do i care to have it translated.
do you really think that I enjoyed what I had written. I have relatives in mumbai and i've been trying to reach them.
	I'm sick of you people and my country. It was written in frustration. 
One person(an eminent one too) wrote me a personal e-mail and expected me to be sorry. HA!!! 

Food for thought.

	Take a look at  moslems and hindus in tamilnadu.  Till now they have maintained their secular values and respect for all religions. I pray that they do not get corrupted by propaganda.
	
	would you like to learn from us??????????????? [ this part is not for you "ramanathan sundarajan" but for the majority who spew their rotten guts on the net].
	would like to be blessed????????? or would you like to remain "children of a lesser god"

shiv.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
From: verma@pfeast.enet.dec.com (Virendra Verma)
Subject: Re: 3 BJP ruled state govts. dismissed
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 15 DEC 92 21:58:52    


In article <1992Dec15.164102.45663@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, dchatterjee@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes...
>an
> 
> (1) ONE single set of civic laws governing every Indian. Religious 
>     discrimination - turned into a political advantage, *MUST* stop.
> 
> (2) Ban article 370 on the Kashmir issue. 
> 
> My friends, we must join hands to end onslaught of chaos and anarchy and
> bring end to this religious infantile disorder.
>   
> 
>             - deb chatterjee
>            (a good samaritan)

	Isn't what BJP want? Why to write letter to this dictator, just
	bring BJP back to power next time around. Ask your friends to
	vote for BJP in the next election.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer:
I express my views under the freedom of speech guaranteed by the constitution
of the United States of America. My employer is not responsible for any
damage or damages caused as a result of my writings. I use my employer's
facilities for a cost of putting extra two hours per week.

WORMA, the WORMS charmer and WORM Abater.

-- Virendra Verma
------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: godura@hercules.cis.udel.edu (Ruchir Godura)
Subject: Re: A question to all muslims?
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:35:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec9.195944.11033@cs.wayne.edu> uds@trace.eng.wayne.edu (Seetamraju Udaybhaskar) writes:
>
>In article <3310@ucl-cs.uucp> B.Kumar@cs.ucl.ac.uk writes:
>>
>>When muslims(1) are in majority in any country, only and only thing, they 
>>want is an Islamic country and every second sentence starts by degrading
>>concept of Secularism and virtue of religion based government. However, 
>>when muslims are in minority in any country, then suddenly all muslims, even
>>belonging themselves to islamic nation, become a torch bearer of secularism?
>>Every second sentence then starts by virtue of secularism and talking ills
<etc., etc...>
On a similar note ..
It is heartening to note that so many muslims on the net have come
forward to oppose muslim hate mongers like Shoaib, and to pray for peace
and harmony.
There is one thing about their sermons, however, that is a cause of
concern. Whenever a hindu condemns the demolition of the temple/mosque,
he does so because it is inhuman, non-scular, etc. etc. Now, when a
muslim condemns muslim atrocities on hindus, he HAS to quote some
obscure line from the Quran or some quote of the Prophet to
justify/suport his statement. Come on guys, do you really need a book
written hunderds of years ago to tell you what is right and what is
wrong ? Don't you have your own sense that tells you killing people and
destrotying mosques/temples is wrong ? Do you find hindus quoting from
the vedas or the Ramayana everytime they condems something wrong ?
Grow up and prove that you are not mindless puppets .. and that you say
something because you mean it and feel it, not because your religion
says so.
Of course every religion preaches tolerance, brotherhood, etc. ? You
don't have to keep telling others that your religion does that. We know
it does. 
Regards,
Ruchir.

-- 
Ruchir Godura | godura@cis.udel.edu | (302) 292-0668 (H) (302) 831-1949 (W)
From: szmartin@galaxy.gov.bc.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Bicycle travel in India
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:49:28 -0800
Organization: BC Systems Corporation

Is it possible/wise/insane for a Canadian lady of 31 to travel by bicycle 
through Rajasthan and Gujarat next September and October?

I was in India for 3 1/2 months last year, travelled alone mostly by 
train.  I am hoping to buy an Indian bike and would appreciate the
following information:

-do good quality Indian bikes have quick release front and back
wheels

-where can I write to get maps of Rajasthan, Gujarat and Tamil Nadu

-am I better to stick to secondary roads

I am considering taking a laptop with me.  Yet I cannot remember ever
seeing an electrical outlet in a hotel room.  Will it be very difficult
to get access to electricity (will I just have to stay in a "good"
hotel every few days).  What about an adaptor for the Indian electrical
system?  Will that be a problem?

Any suggestions are welcome.  I also have a friend in Kovalam and would 
appreciate anyone giving me the E-mail address of someone at a University
in Trivandrum who would be willing to print out and hold mail for him
(he would probably come in to Trivandrum to pick it up).  I would be
willing to pay a small amount for this service.

Finally - I am new to INTERNET and apologize if I have broken some unwritten
rules of etiquette or if I have done something incorrectly.  I also
apologize if this all seems rather trivial in light of what is going on
in India right now.

Please take the time to E-mail me whether you have information or just to
let me know if I have committed an electronic faux pas.

Thanks

Susan Martin

E-mail address - SZMARTIN@galaxy.gov.bc.ca