From: llama@pooh.cc.utexas.edu (sine nomine)
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Subject: Re: a cure for angst?
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:08:57 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

carl_aude (carl_aude.nesbmail@qmgate.larc.nasa.gov) wrote:

: That is the whole problem with your 'cures for angst,' they are just
: temporary.  A temporary cure is no cure at all.  In fact, I contend
: that seeing all things as temporary and/ or only seeking after
: things that are temporary is the root of angst.

from the biblical quote at the end of your post, i'll assume you're
a christian. from that, i'd assume that you see your faith as a 
permanent cure for angst.

but religion is another temporary cure for angst. it's like alcohol or
acid or whatever: it only works as long as you're using it.  the
difference is that it's easier on the body/life and more socially
acceptable to be religious all the time than to be drunk or tripping
or high all the time.

i can hear the objection already: "but alcohol and drugs screw up your
*mind*. they impair your capacity for thought and independent action."
i won't argue that, but so does a rigid adherence to a belief system
(like christianity). if you've "cured" your angst by flinging yourself
into religious fervor, you've basically just put a new set of filters
on your brain. instead of interpreting things the way you used to, you
now relate everything to your belief system. no more pain because
there's an easy answer for everything. the problem is that you lose
your capacity for objective thought unless you're really good at
coping with cognitive dissonance. and the scary thing is, you're most
likely not too aware of the impairment. at least when you're drunk,
you *know* you're drunk.

i've known a few people who were both religious and capable of dealing
honestly with threats to that religious belief, but they were very
rare people. it's easier just to say "the bible tells me so" and move
on to the next topic. maybe that's why i've never been good at faith.

: I have only read from this newsgroup a short time, but time and time
: again people make refences to how seeking a SO has little point
: because all relationships end anyhow. With drugs, another common
: 'cure', the let down is even more clear. 

so relationships and people are just drugs, just ways to dull our
senses? you mean the fact that there exists a person who understands
me, whose mind works like mine, who communicates with me on a level
i'd never thought possible before means nothing more than a shot of
everclear or a tab of acid? god, and i thought *i* was a cynical
bitch.

i *refuse* to believe that people are disposable. disappointing
sometimes, yeah. but love means something. honesty and openness mean
something. one of the ways i make sense out of the chaos that's been
my life is by loving and being loved, helping and being helped. not
advising, just guiding. that's not temporary. james is not temporary.
these things are real and they bring me joy, peace, and fulfillment.
that doesn't men i don't feel angst. it means i can deal.

: Now I have never tried hard
: drugs, but tell me, do they bring you peace in life? (lack of angst)
: or do they just make you temporarily blind to your worry?

depends first on what you mean by "hard" drugs.  if you're asking,
"has using acid ever given you a feeling of fulfillment, of inner
peace, of things being okay that's lasted after you came down?" then
the answer is yes.

but i have a *real* problem with your definition of peace in life as
lack of angst. i think that that sort of peace would be sort of a
permanent mind-numbness.  i don't want to be permanently blind to my
worry. and i don't want to believe that the world is a basically
wonderful benign place. if it is, then my life would make even less
sense than it does now. i don't see how anyone who's ever watched a
newscast or read a paper can even presume to say this is a basically
cheerful, good world. i don't want to believe that. i don't want to turn
off my brain forever. life does suck and is unfair and bad things
happen to good people all the time and no belief system will protect
you from tragedy.

but what does keep me alive is angst, strangely enough. it challenges
me. i don't wanna let the bad guys win. i want to live my life in
beauty, which sounds really cheesy but means to me that i want to get
past the shit that is the basic material of life and get on with
*living*. i want to interact with other people and i want my existence
to have meant something more than x pounds of food and liters of oxygen
consumed, y pounds of byproducts released.

i want passion. i want to consume and be consumed. i want to feel, even
if feeling means being in pain a lot. the painful parts are horrible,
and sometimes i think i'm going to die, but when the ecstasy hits, it's
real and amazing and i wouldn't miss it for the world. turning off my
brain and ceasing to think and dropping into a warm gray world of
religious certainty would be worse than death. hell isn't flames; it's
thick, soupy fog.

so go ahead, tell me i'm corny. tell me i'm going to burn in hell. i'd
rather burn in hell later than live in hell now. 

: Pursuing cures for angst, aggrivates angst.

pursuing cures for angst is what drives everyone. *everything* is an
attempt to put order and meaning in life. every attempt is arbitrary.

even religion.

--
sine | deb
sometimes i don't know when to shut up, y'know?
Newsgroups: alt.angst