HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dl@cockatoo.bellcore.com (Daniel Liebster)
Subject: Re: Clenbuterol Clarification
Reply-To: dl@thumper.bellcore.com
Organization: Packet Communications Research Group (Bellcore)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 04:08:54 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.174955.22176@nntp.uoregon.edu>, mtp@oregon.uoregon.edu (Matthias Pohl) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct1.133432.16987@walter.bellcore.com>, dl@cockatoo.bellcore.com (Daniel Liebster) writes:
|> 
|> > I beleive that the main effect of clenbuterol is fat depletion. There was an article
|> > on this drug in the first Muscle Media 2000 magazine. When I get a chance I'll post
|> > some of the relevant info. Their review was quite favorable and in way implied "better
|> > get it now before the FDA gets wind of it!"
|> > 
|> > dan
|> > .
|> I thought Clenbuterol is on the list of regulated substances already. So, how can one get it legally ?
|> 
|> /Matthias 

I'll be scanning in the information I have on this topic.(way too much
to type). A posting will follow. Please stand by.

dan
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: callejo@pogo.den.mmc.com (Leonard Callejo)
Subject: My Left Foot
Organization: Martin Marietta WIS
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:13:43 GMT

About 3 weeks ago I took a trip to NYC and ended up walking and 
running many miles in dress shoes.  Well, while I was out there I 
developed a strain in my left foot that pulls from the ball of my 
foot to about the middle of my arch.  Everytime I walk I can really
feel it pull, and running can cause excruciating pain.  The pain
hasn't seemed to have subsided any.  Are there any ideas on what
happened to my left foot and any possible ideas for rehabiliting
it.

Leonard Callejo
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: BORON instead of steroids
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:27:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Oct2.162734.10322
Organization: Western Washington University

mikev@col.hp.com (Mike Vigil) writes:

>Does anyone have any information about BORON.  I'm a drug free power lifter.  
>I receive a monthly drug free power lifting magazine called "The Natural".  In 
>this magazine there was an ad for Boron.  The ad reads as follows:

>  Now there is a safe and effective replacement for steroids.  Boron can 
>  increase Testosterone levels up to 300% in 14 days without the harmful 
>  side effects of steroids.

	Testosterone _is_ a steriod.  Such an increase would have all
the harmful side effects of steroids.  Good thing it's just a scam.

Jim Del Vecchio
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Ephedrine and Caffeine
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:34:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Sep30.173414.21537
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Sep30.120816.407@hnrc.tufts.edu> loszewski_im@hnrc.tufts.edu writes:
>In article <1992Sep30.132233.11064@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>> In article <168726F30.RICK@ysub.ysu.edu> RICK@ysub.ysu.edu (Rick Marsico) writes:
>>>          Caffeine  and   ephedrine  can   increase  resting
>>>          metabolic  rates   and  increase   fat  metabolism> 
>>>          There is also some unpublished
>>>          data which suggests that  this combination acts as
>>>          a "nutrient repartitioning  agent," increasing the
>>>          proportion of  muscle mass and reducing  the total
>>>          feed   requirements    in   growing    pigs   (9).
>> 
>This is BULLSHIT!! This combination WILL NOT INCREASE MUSCLE MASS!!  JESUS 
>CHRIST  WHERE THE HELL IS THIS SHIT COMING FROM???????  THE RATIO OF MUSCLE
>MASS TO FAT WILL CHANGE IN FAVOR OF MORE MUSCLE MASS TO FAT, BUT THE OVERALL
>AMOUNT OF MUSCLE IS NOT GOING TO INCREASE!!!

Well, the quote Rick provided _did_ say "_proportion_ of muscle mass". :-)

>BESIDES, I WOULD LIKE TO THINK
>THAT WE AS HUMANS ARE NOT IN THE SAME CATEGORY AS SWINE!!

Well, not until there's a "Miss Piggy '92" contest in New Jersey.

>Forgive me for the outburst, but maybe I have misunderstood this most
>enlightening quote.  Can anyone out there elaborate upon this more clearly.  

Yeah, see above.

>My God, I think I just had a 'ROID ATTACK!!!  :-)

Just a brief Dymetadrine dementia.  You're taking too much.

On the other hand, if this view of the effects of these drugs is
so outrageous (and I'm inclined to agree), I can't figure out why
clenbuterol, which is essentially a much more powerful beta agonist
than ephedrine, is habitually referred to as having "anabolic"
properties.  At best I'd imagine that it might help burn fat.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: dl@cockatoo.bellcore.com (Daniel Liebster)
Subject: legality of posting a coptrighted document
Reply-To: dl@thumper.bellcore.com
Organization: Packet Communications Research Group (Bellcore)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 12:37:06 GMT

	What is the legality of posting a copyrighted document verbatim
on the net? Inquiring minds want to know.

dan
From: gbrown@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Rowing question
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:04:19 GMT
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada

Does anyone know why the Olympic rowers (8-person with a cox) put out 45 
strokes per minute at the beginning of their race, then go down to 32 by 
the finish? Are they "sprinting" for about a minute then switching to 
aerobic? I don't understand this strategy. Any comments?

Donna Somerton 
OSC, Memorial Univ. of Nfld.
Xref: sparky misc.fitness:7594 rec.running:2655
From: rks@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ramesh K. Sitaraman)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness,rec.running
Subject: Fat Burning Primer
Date: 29 Sep 92 06:26:04 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

There seems to be a lot of debate and a few misconceptions about
Fat burning, Stamina etc. Here are a few basics. They are based on
standard scientific sources.

1. There are 3 sources of energy : Muscle glycogen, Liver Glycogen,
Fat (triglycerides).

2. During excercise the glucose and fatty acid in the blood is utilised.
Fatty acid in blood stream is utilised in preference to glucose 
for various reasons. (There are organs like the brain that can use only
one ene{gy source : glucose)

3. Then why can't we run on fat FOREVER ??? Because the fatty acid 
concentration in blood can never be much. In fact, it seldom
exceeds (in Molars) the concentration of Glucose !!! Why this
"transportation problem" for fats ?? There ain't much Albumin to
transport the fat and fat in excess in blood stream will deposit on
viens constrict and more directly cause blood clots and kill you !!!

4. As you workout aerobically, the fat acids start increasing in concentration
in the blood stream. SO LONGER YOU WORK OUT THE GREATER PERCENTAGE OF WHAT
YOU BURN IS FAT ! But remmeber that the fat concentration cannot 
go up too much. Only about 50 percent of your energy can come from fat.

5. So what happens if I run out of glucose ? Can I run on fat ?
Very Very painfully perhaps. Genrally your glucose will last about
17 to 18 miles. Then you run out causing the famous WALL in the marathon.

6. Only long sustained exercise ( 30 -40 mins) is guaranteed to burn
fat (see fat mobilisation etc above). I have seen it work on me and 
others. I dont know what zip code these other guys are from.

7. Some person said doing exercise with breaks as being better
for burning fat. Not true. Neither does it build stamina.
(Doing intervals to build stamina is fine. But it should not constitute
more than small fraction of your total excercise duration. Most
of it should be of the long continous endurance building type.)


		-Ramesh 

-- 
ARPA:  rks@cs.princeton.edu  
       rks@phoenix.princeton.edu 
AT&T:  (609) 683 5394 (Home)  
       (609) 258 1794 (Off) 
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: barry@arnold.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman)
Subject: Re: Natural Supplement Review
Organization: UCLA, Mathematics Department
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 05:42:18 GMT

In article <BuotIH.I06@acsu.buffalo.edu> v124m9k6@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Brian  
M Ward) writes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>      Has anyone purchased the Natural Supplement Review?  If so let me
> know if it is a worthy investment.
> 

Yes, it is very informative. If you are into bodybuilding, the
best way to get it is to subscribe to the new mag 
Muscle Media 2000 for 2 years, and your get the review for free.

Muscle Media 2000 is the best bodybuilding magazine ever, in terms
of information content.


--
Barry Merriman
UCLA Dept. of Math
UCLA Inst. for Fusion and Plasma Research
barry@math.ucla.edu (Internet; NeXTMail is welcome)


Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Subject: Re: LIQUID FASTING DIET
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 20:29:46 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland


Sounds like a recipe for death to me. 

I suspect that a four week fast could permanently damage the heart. 
Somewhere I read that when people fast, the heart muscle is damaged
because the body begins feeding off it to compensate for lack of
dietary protein, and a heart attack is the usual cause of death
when people fast.
From: sma@waikato.ac.nz (Stephen Anderson)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: exercise for special conditions
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:25:26 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

I have a brother who suffers from Myalgic Encepholomyelitus (M.E.)
In short, this means that he has a low tolerance to excercise.  Is there
anything that he can do to increase his fitness level, and therefore general
health, without risking a serious health setback that would jeoperdise his
studies (he is a student) and general enjoyment of life?


Stephen..
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: lorenzo@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Eric J. Lorenzo)
Subject: Caloric Supplements
Followup-To: poster
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 08:09:09 GMT

I run 25-30 miles a week, and have a *very* high metabolism to begin with. I've
decided already that I should start taking in caloric supplements.  I see many 
a drink mix at the local GNC, but they are aimed mainly at the weight lifter.

I was wondering if there would be any harm in using these mixes for their
caloric content, which are quite high for a shake, alone.  What are the 
contents of the powder, and how could they affect me if I mainly run and am not
into heavy lifting(like the guys on the package)?

Thanks in advance,
Eric

Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: lorenzo@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Eric J. Lorenzo)
Subject: DMG
Followup-To: poster
Summary: N-Dimethylglycine
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 08:02:17 GMT

I was wondering if someone could fill me in on what DMG is supposed to do
for/to you.  I've heard it converts your lactic acid into Oxygen.  First of
all, is that possible? Second of all, does it do that?

Thanks in advance,
Eric
From: whare@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: FAT?
Date: 4 Oct 92 15:31:27 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


	I was wondering if people could post the fat contents
in any type of food. For example, I heard that an egg has only
four grams of fat. Is this true? Well, I'm making a list starting
now so ANY foods you know about please post them.

	Thanks, Stephen ( Fitness Thoughts ) Hare.-- 
----                               
                                                  ...Richard*GRAPHIC*Design...
                                                  ...Antony R Hare............ 
                                                  ...President................
                                                  ...whare@ac.dal.ca..........
                                                  ...image is almost..........
                                                  .......everything...........
Xref: sparky misc.fitness:7681 rec.running:2706
From: wendysue@iat.holonet.net (Wendy S. Reynolds)
Subject: Re: Optifast (Liquid diets)
Organization: HoloNet (BBS: 510-704-1058)
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:33:35 GMT

Has your friend talked to a physician about this "coldness" of hers?

There is no proof that a liquid protein diet causes your metabolism to
slow.  If there is, I'd like citations.

What is her body fat percentage as compared to prior to her using
Optifast?  Is it lower?  Perhaps too low?

Has she had her blood volume measured?
From: dg1v+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Greene)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Fwd: Runners should not ignore shin splints
Date: 29 Sep 92 05:50:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.cem5wTG00VBK0O3JBj
	<pa-splintsU2SS1220ae@clarinet.com>
Organization: Robotics Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

---------- Forwarded message begins here ----------

	UNIVERSITY PARK, Pa. (UPI) -- Although often considered a minor
nuisance, the pain of shin splints should not ignored by runners and
other athletes, a Penn State doctor said Monday.
	Writing in the October issue of the Penn State Sports Medicine
Newsletter, Dr. J. Michael Lynch said many shin splints have a common
cause.
	``The most common cause of shin splints at the elite level is the
'too much, too soon' syndrome,'' he said. ``It happens when athletes
move abruptly from a low-intensity, off-season regimen to high-intensity
training in preparation for competition.''
	Shin splints is a catch-all term referring to inflammation of tendons
and muscles attached to the two shin bones -- the tibia and fibula.
	Such injuries may become aggravated in athletes who do not reduce
training intensity, leading to minute bone cracks known as a stress
fractures, Lynch said.
	Posterior shin splints feature pain on the inner side of the calf due
to inflammation of the muscles that roll the foot inward and support the
arch. Anterior shin splints that develop on the outer side of the calf,
typically triggered by a hard heel strike.
	The major contributor to the development of shin splints at any
athletic level is the repeated stress that running puts on legs --
approximately three to four times body weight with each step, Lynch
said.
	Other factors may include inadequate training or technique, a hard or
uneven running surface, or worn shoes that no longer absorb impact
sufficiently.
	The key to reducing the likelihood of shin soreness is to develop
strength and flexibility in the two principal calf muscles with such
exercises as calf stretches and toe curls, Lynch said.
	``For extra pain relief, take anti-inflammatory medication such as
aspirin or ibuprofen,'' he said.
	Shin splints may also be triggered by ankle instability, which can be
lessened with other special exercises, Lynch said.
	The article advises that these precautions should be taken in any
shin splints case:
	--Replace worn-out athletic shoes with a well-cushioned model that
provides good support.
	--Try not to run on hard surfaces.
	--Cross train during recovery with activities such as bicycling or
swimming.
	Once the pain has diminished sufficiently, begin a progressive
running program to gradually return to the regular sport, Lynch said.
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: jennifer@gaia.arc.nasa.gov (Jennifer Dungan)
Subject: Ms. Olympia contest
Summary: When does it air?
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center - SGE
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:01:02 GMT

Well, the Ms. Olympia contest is coming around again this 
month.  I have never once been able to see the show
on television, and I would love not to miss it this
year.  Can anyone tell me when and on what channel it
will air?

Thanks,


Jennifer Dungan                  jennifer@vessna.arc.nasa.gov
Research Scientist
MS 242-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000
USA
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: mgh@philabs.philips.com (Monisha Ghosh)
Subject: Working out on weight machines while pregnant?
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff, New York
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:04:36 GMT


The subject line says it all. What is the conventional wisdom on a light-to-
moderate intensity workout on Nautilius type machines, especially for the
upper body and legs - i.e. staying away from the abdomen - while pregnant?
I've been doing a 30 minute Lifecycle workout followed by about 20 mins on
the machines since before I bacame pregnant and have continued, although with
lower weights than before (I'm 20 weeks pregnant now). My questions:
	- What are the possible risks to me and the baby?
	- Is it safe to continue at my present levels, or should I reduce
	  the intensity even if I don't feel strained?
	- At how many weeks is it advisable to stop the weights part of the
	  workout?

I have asked my doctor these questions, but being unfamiliar with the machines
she could not be too specific other than to say that if it felt ok it probably
was. The people at the gym weren't too knowledgeable either. I really like the
weights part of the workout and would hate to give it up unless it was
damaging to both me and the baby. By the way, I do not see too many pregnant
women on the machines.

Any input would be really appreciated, especially from pregnant women!

Monisha
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve Russell)
Subject: Aerobic Workout Length
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 13:43:24 GMT

Thanks for all the tips I've gotten from last post about aerobic exercise.
  I have started to read the referrences that people have informed about.
  Which means I now have more questions:)  Sorry *chuckle*

  For fat burning purposes some expersts on aerobic exercise say a 40 minuet
workout should be strived for.  Their reasoning is that your body doesn't
start using fat as a primary fuel source until after 20 minuets have
elapsed.

   Another expert (Bailey of Fit Or Fit) claims that the actual exercise
itself burns little,  the benefit comes from forcing your metabolism to change
which according to him happens at 12 minuets in target zone.  Anything after
this this magic 12 minuets is a "dimminished return".

   So?  Who is correct?  Is it worth it for a person interested in fat loss
to stay working out after 12 minuets in the heart rate target zone or would
they be wasting their time by burning only a small amount of calories?

   I can handle a techinical answer and I also respect peoples own 
ancetedotal experience.  Im doing about 5 aerobic workouts per week now
(stairs, swimming, rowing, and a day of rest....repeat) at about 30 min
per workout.  I've been thinking about going up to 45 if it would make
a significant differnce in fat reduction, but if it is only the differnce
of a hundred something calories with no sig extra metabolic benefits
I would rather use my time elsewhere.

So how about it?  Will that extra 15 min rev up my fat burning metabolism
more or will I just use up some paltry number of calories that will be
quickly replaced?

Thanks for the help:)
Steve R
From: mtp@oregon.uoregon.edu (Matthias Pohl)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Clenbuterol Clarification
Date: 6 Oct 92 03:58:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntp.1992Oct6.035814.383
Organization: Dep. of Chemistry

In article <1992Oct06.004713.26935@eng.umd.edu>, georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:
> 
> 
> The August 15, 1992 issue of Lancet had an article on clenbutarol. Here's
> the gist of what it said:

[...stuff deleted...]
 
> It is readily available everywhere in the world, except the U.S.A.

[...stuff deleted...]

I know for a fact that Clenbuterol is banned for use in humans not only in the US but also in the member countries of the EC. There was a time  (not
sure if that info is still up-to-date) when Clenbuterol was legally used
by cattle ranchers. Eat more steak...:):):)

BTW, Clenbuterol plus (marketed by Strength Systems) actually seems to contain what the label says. However at a dosage of 20 mcg (mcg = microgram; 1000 mcg = 1 mg) per tablet...well, as the effective dosage is somewhere between 10 and 25 mg/ day one would have to swallow a lot of tablets :). I figure that because of this low concentration the FDA con-
siders Clenbuterol plus homeopathetic and therefore does not impose any
sales restrictions.

/Matthias
From: silver@macbeth.umd.edu (Adam Silver)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Clenbuterol Clarification
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:49:54 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

In article <1992Oct1.133432.16987@walter.bellcore.com> dl@thumper.bellcore.com writes:
>In article <15798@umd5.umd.edu>, silver@woodstock.umd.edu (Adam Silver) writes:
>|> Maybe I should have said that Clenbuterol is more anti-catabolic than it is
>|> anabolic.
>|> 
>|> 							-Adam
>
>I beleive that the main effect of clenbuterol is fat depletion. There was an article
>on this drug in the first Muscle Media 2000 magazine. When I get a chance I'll post
>some of the relevant info. Their review was quite favorable and in way implied "better
>get it now before the FDA gets wind of it!"
>
>dan

This is correct, Dan.  I did mention that in my previous article, but I had
also said that Clenbuterol has a highly anabolic effect.

I then reposted saying that I probably should have said that it has a highly
anti-catabolic effect instead in addition to its thermogenesis.  Actually it
increases brown fat burning.

							-Adam

Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: watanabe@sunflower.cs.uiuc.edu (Larry Watanabe)
Subject: Re: Bailey & Butter Burning Revisited - Short Summary
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:55:41 GMT

pae@blackcat.stortek.com (Phil Earnhardt) writes:

>[So that we don't get completely lost, I'm including references that Ed didn't
>have in his message...pae]

>In article <1992Sep22.194513.7908@mcnc.org> ekp@mcnc.org (Edward Pavelchek) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep22.023043.25766@stortek.com> pae@blackcat.stortek.com (Phil Earnhardt) writes:

>>>>5) The remaining hypothesis seems to be that fit people are more active.
>>>>Research on this is still very new, and inconclusive.  Should this turn out
>>>>to be true, it yet bears no relation to 'better butter burning', or fat
>>>>burning enzyme levels.  (Note that this is orthogonal to 'Are fat people
>>>>less active?'.

>>>It may not have much to do with "better butter burning," but it certainly is
>>>consistent with what Bailey recommends: besides regular aerobic exercise,
>>>besides shifting your diet to complex carbos, alter your day-to-day (actually
>>>minute-to-minute) habits: park far away in the parking lot, take the stairs,
>>>etc., etc.
>>>
>>>It really is there in the _TNFoF_, Ed. To categorically ignore this is
>>>inconsistent with your typical thoroughness in your research.
>>

>>Except when I am lured off track, I try to discuss 'better butter burning'.

I have been convinced by Steve Dyer's arguments that there is
little evidence that metabolism is significantly changed by exercise.

However, I seem to recall reading somewhere that persons with 
lower percent body fat have a higher basal metabolism than another
person of the same weight with a higher percent body fat. This makes
sense offhand, since muscle is what does the work.

Anyways, this brings up a number of questions:

1) Is this true, that muscle burns more calories than fat?

2) Can the results in Bailey be accounted for by the fact that people
who exercise reduce their percent fat, and thus experience a 
"higher metabolism"?

-Larry Watanabe

Newsgroups: misc.fitness