From: v085r6qm@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Erin D Markle)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: authors not Crowley
Date: 8 Sep 92 20:45:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <Bu9I9y.90p@acsu.buffalo.edu>, oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes...
>In article <Bu8K9M.JFJ@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v085r6qm@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Erin D Markle) writes...
>> 
>>                |||| W.E. Butler ||||
>>(author, Liberal Catholic priest,magician,...died in 1978)
>>      I have found his work to much appeal to my sense
>>of the importance of Christ figures. I wasn't religously
>>reared, yet the idea of Christ (yes, capital "C") seems
>>to be an unavoidable issue on the path to inner enlighten-
>>ment.
> 
I sent Kethry some E-mail(is that the term), and went into
this just a bit... To clear up any misunderstanding, which I
leave more than enough room for, my meaning of the word
"Christ" wasn't to specifcally implicate Jesus. The concept
of Christ is that of whatever -manifest or unmanifest-
force that makes our connection with the universal totality
possible. Some call it "godself," I'm sure there is a
wide variety of names and faces. As far as the Jesus
signifigance, IF he was a Christ, or the physical manifes-
tation of THE Christ, then there is value in the metaphors
of "bridge," "Son of Man/Son of God
.. INTERCHANGEABLY
And many others taught to us by our dogmatic (if not
"corrupted") Christian teachers. Organized Christian religion,
Ithink we could generally agree, is far removed from the original
message. And like all enduring ideas, there is great truth
at it's core. (geat truth at the CORE of all things I would
assume)
(see also my humble -if not inane- 666 commentary in the
Pentagram discussion if you care to get more insight into
my muddled views on Christ/Antichrist)
in the updated: the godself does have a lot of creadence in
being essential in the use of magic(k). But "not necessarilly"
could very well still be accurate.
>Not necessarily.
> 
>>I know that this kind of recognition is no more imperative
>>to the use of magic. (sorry about the k, I think we can all
>>deal.) ... as it is to eating or scratching your butt. I
>>have gathered though,that this recognition takes quite a
>>load off so that eating and scratching your butt can be 
>>more freely enjoyed. I DON'T KNOW. 
> 
>I don't understand this analogy.  Butt scratching has never been 
>a part of my magickal practice.  Is this something you recommend? 
I don't mean to miscommunicate so much. All I really meant
was that you don't have to be "Christian" to use magick 
anymore than you have to be "Christian" to poop. Though
it does seem that recognizing the Christ Self, or God Self
as being a force that resides within us, takes a lot of
pressure off of our personalities. We don't have to produce
a personal godliness in order to function... magically or
bodily. A WHOLISTIC STRESS RELIEF
>:)
> 
>Can't speak for anyone else, but I don't think this is really a 
>bombshell.  Most people here respect religions in general, though 
>many here do not formally subscribe to one.  Now if you asked 
>about this on alt.atheism, some bombs might go off.
A CONFUSION BOMB, MAYBE? (a little confusion goes a long way)
> 
>Me, I was raised strict Catholic (Irish-Catholic).  Despite the 
>full brainwashing treatment, I managed somehow to never believe 
>fully in Catholocism.  OK, there were times I believed parts of it, 
>or liked parts of it - still like parts of it.  I quit attending 
>church when I was 16 or 17 and haven't been involved with it 
>since.
> 
>How this relates to magick.  Well, Christ and other personages in 
>Catholocism help me to better understand quabala (Christ & 
>Tiphereth being the most obvious example).  In fact, the quabala 
>has given me back my past, minus the restrictions.  By this I 
>mean that I can map things onto the quabala instead of tossing 
>them.  (I do not *believe* literally in personified gods though.)
> 
>The mass and other rituals have helped me to understand rituals.  
>Aside from Catholic rituals, I've only seen one other ritual 
>performed  - A friend invited me to visit the local OTO where N. 
>performed a ritual that had to do with the Egyptian underworld.  
>They offered to teach me a ritual (a basic one in one of the 
>Crowley books) but I declined.  Egyptian stuff is not my cup of 
>tea as rituals go.
COOL-- this is what I was looking for.
> 
>- Peggy -
- and Friend of Erin -
> 
Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA