HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: laura@TASVAX.NSWSES.NAVY.MIL
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: "'X' Days/Weeks/Months/Years To Live"
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:08:08 GMT
Reply-To: laura@TASVAX.NSWSES.NAVY.MIL
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center, Port Hueneme Division

In article <15740@pitt.UUCP>, km@speedy.cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum) writes:
>In article <1992Jul18.190219.159@news.wesleyan.edu- RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg) writes:
>>-Funny thing:  I know lots of folks who claim to have been told by their doctors
>>-that they have "'X' days/weeks/months/years to live",

Add my mother to the list.  Also add her three doctors and her hospice nurse.

>> but I know (or even know
>>-OF) absolutely no doctors who claim ever to have said any such thing to their
>>-patients.  What do you suppose accounts for this data discrepancy?

>Since we doctors all lie to our patients, why shouldn't we lie to
>you as well?

Gee, Ken, I really don't know.  Can you come up with any reasons for doctors
not to lie?

laura@tasvax.nswses.navy.mil		|   Naval Surface Warfare Center
I speak only for myself.		|   Port Hueneme, CA
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: 60 Minutes-Heart Disease & The French
Date: 26 Jul 92 22:20:33 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <1992Jul23.220715.17142@pixel.kodak.com> young@serum.kodak.com writes:
>
>	"Chances are good that if you watched '60 Minutes' last November 3,
>	you came away feeling that MSG is bad for you.  And if you watched
>	on November 17, odds are high you reached the conclusion that red
>	wine is good for you, good enough even for teetotalers to consider
>	adding some to their diets.  Odds are also high that you watched --
>	or at least heard about -- the two broadcasts.  An average of 30
>	million viewers tune in each week.  That's why it's particularly
>	unfortunate that the popular television show presented such strongly
>	one-sided, unbalanced stories on the two subjects."
>
They did even worse on the "amalgam filling scare".  Showing someone
who was in a wheelchair from multiple sclerosis who danced the next
night after having her amalgam fillings drilled out did a horrible
disservice and caused many MS patients great expense and suffering
for naught.

As far as I am concerned, 60 minutes, and most other so-called
investigative reporting on TV are pure crap.  Stick to Consumer
Reports.




-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: km@speedy.cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Questions for MDs
Date: 29 Jul 92 12:14:40 GMT
Reply-To: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Organization: Computer Science Dept., University of Pittsburgh

In article <15575@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> fzjaffe@hamlet.ucdavis.edu (Rory Jaffe) writes:
>topics.  And internists (at least judging from their consult notes)
>generally never understand the various nuances involved in anesthesia (I
>guess that's because we're non-cognitive & they're cognitive
>practitioners). 

Hey! I think most internists would glady give the anesthesiologists the
cognitive label if we could trade incomes! :-)

As an internist, I learned a long time ago to stay out of operating
rooms, even though I enjoyed surgery. The last time I was in one
the surgeon threw a retractor at me. Those guys have absolutely
no sense of humor that I can recognize. And I could never be
an anesthesiologist - my taste in music to use on the boom box
during the operation would never appeal to a surgeon.

 -km
Newsgroups: sci.med,talk.politics.drugs,pnw.general
From: green@island.COM (Robert Greenstein)
Subject: Re: FDA still at large
Organization: Strawman Incorporated
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 19:13:14 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.082728.7426@samba.oit.unc.edu> Scott.Maxwell@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Scott Maxwell) writes:
>In article <1992Jul25.041036.16207@fylz.wa.com> fyl@fylz.wa.com (Phil Hughes) writes:
>
>>understand how poison or sawing off an afflicted body part could
>>"cure" a problem in that part but I would not call this science.
>
>Why not? They test it. It works. They use it.

And if it doesn't work, they just might use it anyway, especially if
they can make enough money at it.

>any damn quack you please, and I don't like the AMA or anyone else
>interfering in that decision. But, folks ... those AMA-approved doctors
>have a pretty good record. 

Please post the record.
-- 
******************************************************************************
Robert Greenstein           What the fool cannot learn he laughs at, thinking
green@island.com            that by his laughter he shows superiority instead
                            of latent idiocy - M. Corelli
Newsgroups: sci.med,talk.politics.drugs,pnw.general
From: bud@kentrox.uucp (Bud Couch)
Subject: Consumer Reports (was Re: FDA still at large)
Organization: ADC Kentrox, Portland OR
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 00:13:12 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.041036.16207@fylz.wa.com> fyl@fylz.wa.com (Phil Hughes) writes:
>
>As a person I feel I have the right to select whatever method of
>"treatment" that I want.  I have no problem with a testing agency
>(like Consumer Reports) collecting statistics and offering me decent
>information on various treatments but I still feel I have the right to
>select whatever treatment I want.
>
I find your citation of "Consumer Reports" as an example of what you want to 
see rather amusing, given the tenor of the remainder of your post.

I received Consumer Reports for over 15 years, but I finally let my 
subscription/membership lapse in 1984 because of their constant calls for more
government regulation on just about any subject. Their product testing was 
excellent, but I couldn't continue to belong, when I knew that they were 
"speaking" for their subscriber list with the editorials and the lobbying for 
positions that I opposed. 

This is a problem not limited to Consumer Reports, but rather generally. Many 
large organizations insert themselves into the political process on subjects
that their charter doesn't justify purporting to speak for their membership.

-- 
  Bud Couch - ADC/Kentrox    | That which does not kill me makes me strong.  |
 If my employer only knew... |                              -Nietzsche       |
   standard BS applies	     | ... but why risk it?  - me                    |
From: young@serum.kodak.com [Rich Young] (x37176)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: 60 Minutes-Heart Disease & The French
Date: 23 Jul 92 12:34:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: pixel.1992Jul23.123427.28002
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Originator: young@sasquatch

>In article <1992Jul22.161721.4860@dircon.co.uk> uad1214@dircon.co.uk (Peter Cox) writes:
>>
>>
>>A recent "60 Minutes" programme featured (I hope these
>>names are correct) Kurt ELLISON (from Boston) Serge RENAULT
>>and Monique ASTIER-DUMAS (from INSERM).
>>
>>The theory being propounded was:  Despite the high level of
>>fat consumption in France, they suffer far less from CHD
>>than Americans.  Reason advanced:  Americans drink more
>>milk, whose calcium greatly aids in the uptake of serum
>>lipids.  Also, wine consumption helps lower lipids.

	Actually, The_Tufts_University_Diet_and_Nutrition_Letter did an
	article on the "60 Minutes" presentation and pretty well shot it
	in the proverbial heart.  It turns out that Morley Safer's report
	left out a LOT of rather inconvenient contradictory information.
	Check out Vol. 9, No. 12, February 1992 for further details...there's
	quite a long critique entitled "'60 Minutes' - Not Enough Time to
	Tell the Whole Story".

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>|<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Rich Young                             | Phone: (716) 253-7176
Eastman Kodak Company                  | FAX: (716) 253-7254
Clinical Products Division             | Internet: young@serum.kodak.com
100 Carlson Road                       |
Rochester, New York, USA   14653-9122  | These are MY opinions, not Kodak's!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>|<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Don't get angry, get accurate information.
From: brrian04@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: LSD Impairment Questions
Date: 24 Jul 92 12:36:51 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town

Perhaps someone here can clarify a couple of terms for me.
In a posting about impairment caused by LSD it was stated that 'The LSD group
had depressed critical flicker frequencies (p < 0.0001) and reduced sensitivity
to light during dark adaptation (p < 0.0001).' What are these two things?  How
would they manifest themselves i.e. What practical effects would be noticed by
the user?  Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
				I turned silences and nights into words.
				What was unutterable, I wrote down.
brrian04@uctvax.uct.ac.za	I made the whirling world stand still.
ibarrett@zaphod.cs.uct.ac.za		- Arthur Rimbaud
						A Season in Hell

				Swans fly silently to the burning sky.
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: FDA still at large
Date: 31 Jul 92 17:25:05 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <92212.195618DGS4@psuvm.psu.edu> DGS4@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>
>>7)      Insulin and eyeglasses would cost more if less people wanted to
>>        buy them.
>
>Funny, but all the free-market economics that I learned says that insulin and
>eyeglasses cost moreif MORE people want them.  You are missing a few ceteris
>parabus assumtions in your analysis.
>
That's only true if the demand exceeds the supply.  If it is a manufactured
article of which there is no shortage, increased demand will lower the
cost, due to the economies of scale.  We could supply insulin to
1000 times the people who currently use it if they wanted it, and
the costs would go down.  Something like rare stamps or real estate,
which is not easily manufactured, will go up in price with demand.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein) 
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: RE: HOW DOES NERVOUSNESS
Date: 25 Jul 92 08:42:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-1243v.32bis
Reply-To: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein) 

RB..it is generally a better idea to hold the levodopa in reserve until
RB..the symptoms become disabling.   Since the Sinemet "honeymoon" only lasts
RB..around 2-5 years, the prevailing wisdom is to start off with amantadine,
RB..Deprenyl, and possibly an anti-cholinergic, and save the "big guns"
RB..until absolutely necessary.

The "prevailing wisdom" is so often wrong, and in this case, it
is no longer prevailing.  There is no credible evidence that the
Sinemet you use now causes the Sinemet you use later to be
ineffective.  Ineffectiveness of Sinemet (and, for that matter,
DA agonists and other drugs) in advanced disease is due to
advanced disease.  Withholding the most effective drug while a
patient has mild disease, and is most likely to benefit, is (IMO)
slightly short of criminal.
---
 . SLMR 2.0 .
From: dfavor@logan.tivoli.com (David Favor)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: is sugar bad for you?
Date: 29 Jul 92 12:15:00 GMT

oh no it can't be... can it. I'm mean the TV commercials say it's 99% pure,
right? that's purer than any street cocaine, so it must be okay, right?
From: km@speedy.cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Questions for MDs
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:14:32 GMT
Reply-To: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Organization: Computer Science Dept., University of Pittsburgh

In article <6920.2a646caa@dcatla.uucp= cuegf@dcatla.uucp writes:

=I would advise any patient to stay away from a doctor who refuses
=to answer a question.  Doctors who view assertive (as the questions
=seemed to me) patients as threatening, as the above response seems
=to indicate, most likely have their own self-interest placed 
=largely above their patients, IMHO. Someone who equates 
=assertive questioning as evidence of probability of suing is indeed
=insecure, and could have something to hide.  Doctors who expect
=patients to be silent recepticles of medical treatment instead of
=human beings first should probably be avoided as much as possible,
=IMHO.

Well, what kind of question are we talking about? "Gee Doc, when was
the last time you killed a patient?" Doctors are like anyone else -
there is a tactful way to find things out and an untactful way, and
I totally agree with Gordon that I would not be interested at all with
taking the poster of the doctor questionnaire as a patient. But that
automatically places me in the group of "Doctors who expect patients
to be silent recepticles of medical treatment instead of human beings"?
No, I don't think so. Quit thinking of the world in terms of black
and white. 

 -km
From: km@speedy.cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: 60 Minutes-Heart Disease & The French
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:59:23 GMT
Reply-To: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Organization: Computer Science Dept., University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Jul28.005145.229@ttinews.tti.com> hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
>"60 Minutes" exists to sell TV ad slots, period.  They do this by
>presenting sensationalized rubbish to attract their target audience.  A
>balanced presentation of correct information isn't even on their agenda.

This is not only true for "60 Minutes" but for the media in general.
The few times in my life that I have been involved with something
covered by the national media, I have been very impressed with how
many errors they commit, and how they twist things to suit their
purposes. And I'm a liberal!

"60 Minutes" did a piece a few years ago on how greedy doctors were.
They took a patient with end stage renal disease on dialysis, and
showed the bill for his care in the hospital the last few weeks
of his life. In addition to the "$1 cotton balls", they went after
everything, regardless of whether the doctor made money on it or not!
My favorite was "daily blood tests", which they got some hick
doctor to ridicule ("Well, gee, I never do that on my patients.")
but which were probably mandatory on this patient, whose wife had
no doubt told the doctors to "do everything you can." They somehow
got the listeners to believe that the doctor was making money
by these blood tests.

 -Ken Mitchum MD
 km@cs.pitt.edu




Newsgroups: sci.med
From: st1lv@elroy.uh.edu (McLeod, Stephen)
Subject: Why are Butterfly Needles being banned by FDA?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 06:25:00 GMT

I will have to go into hospital soon and the one thing keeping up my spirits 
was the existence of butterfly needles.  They are almost completely painless
and I have the heebie jeebies about needles.  The last time I went there, they
said the FDA had banned them for the foreseeable future.

Does anyone know *WHY*!?!  Is there anyone I can contact ala the breast silicon
things to say, "HEY!  I'll take the risk!  I want this needles!"
---
Stephen McLeod
The Eternal Student
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: akcobb@amherst.edu
Subject: More fluoxetine and bulimia
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst Mass.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 02:38:44 GMT



Is there any medicine that can actually inhibit the vomiting
action?  I ask in relation to treatment of bulimia with Prozac
(fluoxetine); I have known people to actually not be able to
vomit, even after a physically painful binge, after being on
Prozac for 2-4 weeks.  Is this as unfounded as it seems?
Perhaps it is just psychological somehow.

Thanks for any comments.
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Re: Elavil for Migraines?
Date: 29 Jul 92 13:50:06 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <1992Jul28.102015@IASTATE.EDU> minkpup@IASTATE.EDU (Lisa E Peterson) writes:
>On a related note:
>
>I've taken both Elavil and Pamelor for migraines with no significant effect and
>now I'm being put on Depakote (valproic acid) to control them.  My doctor tells
>me it's usually given to patients with seizures but is also used for migraine
>control.  Does any one out there have any info about it's effectiveness for this
>and how it works to control headaches?
>

It works quite well in some people.  Why is not known.




-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Telephones and Doctors
Date: 22 Jul 92 15:09:50 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <15764@pitt.UUCP> km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum) writes:
>
>The last time I bought a car I spent three hours haggling with the
>dealer to get the price I wanted. He found out I was a doctor after
>the deal was done.
>
And I'll bet he cussed you up one side and down another after
he found out.  I also never tell people I'm a doctor unless
I trust them very well.  People assume all doctors are rich.


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: 60 Minutes-Heart Disease & The French
Organization: The Cat Factory
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 00:51:45 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.220715.17142@pixel.kodak.com> young@serum.kodak.com writes:
}In article <1992Jul23.134416.18902@news.columbia.edu> stone@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Glenn Stone) writes:
}>young@serum.kodak.com writes:
}>>
}>>Actually, The_Tufts_University_Diet_and_Nutrition_Letter did an
}>>article on the "60 Minutes" presentation and pretty well shot it
}>>in the proverbial heart.  It turns out that Morley Safer's report
}>>left out a LOT of rather inconvenient contradictory information. ...
}>
}>Be a mensch and give a few of the highlights. ...

}   Here's the straight skinny on the "60 Minutes" report, quoted without
}   permission from THE TUFTS DIET AND NUTRITION LETTER: Vol. 9, No. 12,
}   February 1992.

[ ... ] (Sins of "60 Minutes" deleted.)

In my experience, this is typical behavior for "60 Minutes" and should
come as no surprise to anyone.  I'm not a doctor, but I have some
expertise in other areas.  Every time "60 Minutes" does a show on one of
those areas they invariably commit errors both of omission and fact. (I've
written to them on occasion and gotten form letter "We don't care what you
think" replies).  I have no reason to believe they're any better about
areas beyond my expertise, as the above article confirms.

"60 Minutes" exists to sell TV ad slots, period.  They do this by
presenting sensationalized rubbish to attract their target audience.  A
balanced presentation of correct information isn't even on their agenda.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405 {rutgers|pyramid|philabs|psivax}!ttidca!hollombe
From: Jay.Hergert@f3.n157.z1.fidonet.org (Jay Hergert)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Six toes
Date: 10 Jul 92 04:23:00 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:157/3 - Nerd's Nook, Rocky River OH

Recently while at the beach, I saw a girl with six toes on each foot. Does any body know how common it is?  Someone said it can also occur on the fingers too, would the fingers work?  Thanks.  Jay


--  
Internet: Jay.Hergert@f3.n157.z1.fidonet.org
From: 9209584t@levels.unisa.edu.au
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: TAXOL
Date: 28 Jul 92 05:39:58 GMT
Organization: University of South Australia

Hi

I will like to know if anybody out there knows of a university
or medical institution that has a supply of TAXOL available. It will
be much appreciated if information like the address of this place and
any email addresses of people involved with this drug can be provided.
  
                                                     
                                                        Thank you.
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Questions for MDs
Date: 29 Jul 92 13:58:41 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <15575@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> fzjaffe@hamlet.ucdavis.edu (Rory Jaffe) writes:

>me then also?  You want me to give the patient a full lecture on the
>risks/benefits of the various alternatives, and then have the patient
>make the decision.  This can be done for the major components of the
>decisions (e.g. to operate or not, whether to have general or regional
>anesthesia), but is extraordinarily impractical for the thousands of
>minuteae involved.  It takes years to educate a resident about these

Herman and others reflect this misunderstanding that in a few minutes
the physician can bring the patient up to an level of an expert in
making medical decisions.  In the time available, all that could
be done would be to spew out some meaningless statistics which would
more likely scare the patient into doing nothing.

>topics.  And internists (at least judging from their consult notes)
>generally never understand the various nuances involved in anesthesia (I
>guess that's because we're non-cognitive & they're cognitive
>practitioners). Actually cause-effect for both hepatitis and heart

No one ever said you were "non-cognitive".  The argument is that
physicians should be reimbursed in accordance with their training
and the amount of time they spend on the patient's problems, and
not some people getting paid an order of magnitude more because
they have been able to bill so much more for procedures than
thinking and talking to patients or can have numerous paramedical
assistants under their nominal supervision and bill for the services
they perform.  I'd be willing to see some compensation for the
legal risks you take, but the differential now is entirely out
of line.



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------