From: tceh000@convex1.tcs.tulane.edu (eugene hopstetter)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Subject: THIRLWELL [was Re: Ministry]
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:06:51 GMT
Organization: Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-15600]: convex1.tcs.tulane.edu

In article <11056.9208141252@csm.ac.uk> CSM Julian Sominka <jsominka@CSM.AC.UK> writes:
>Much has been spoken about Ministry recently. Personally I
>think they're OK but they are very much influenced by
>Jim Thirwell.

Personally, I think it's rather far-fetched to assume Al Jourgenson
is influenced by Thirlwell [not that I wanna ask him -- I wouldn't
cross the street to spit on him], Thirlwell's work [visual art,
production, instrumentation, lyrics, the whole Foetus phenomenon]
is so far superior to anything Jourgenson's had anything to do with,
I think it an insult to Thirlwell's work to even suggest it. But I
understand your sentiment. Why listen to Ministry at all, when you
can buy Foetus, Wiseblood, Steroid Maximus, Garage Monsters, Flesh
Volcano, or anything else ol' Jim has sat in on? To me, that's like
saying Patrick Nagel was influenced by, say, Egon Schiele.

>half of Wiseblood. His stuff is much better than Ministry,
>- much wilder and more interesting. If you like the new
>Ministry album you should like Jim Thirwell's stuff.

Apples and oranges, again. I think Jourgenson and Thirlwell are
mutually exclusive. Thirlwell is, IMHO, one of the most influential,
or capable, or important, creative artists alive today. Musically,
he's an unequalled innovator -- witness his mutated synthesized jazz
tempos and samples in the Steroid Maximus recording. He has sampled
and built unique music out of the music of the great jazz horn players --
Dizzy, Peter Brotzman, Sonny Rollins. Granted, he did this even on
his first lp _Deaf_ [the sample of Miles Davis' _Birth of the Cool_
in the cut "Is That a Line?", I think], but he's pushed open far 
beyond what the hip-hop and house Djs have been doing with samples 
in one record. Thirlwell's incidental music ["soundtracks for non-
existent movies" he's called them] is fully realized, articulate,
and very expressive. He's hopped from genre to genre: dancy music 
["Calamity Crush", Foetus Art Terrorism], to concrete music ["Industrial
Go Slow", "OKFM", Foetus in Your Bed, You've Got Foetus on Your Breath,
respectively], orchestral mayhem ["!", ["Viva! Anything" Scraping Foetus
off The Wheel], tone poetry ["Sick Minutes, Unmutual", "Baphomet"], 
he does it all, while still maintaining an honesty and intregity found
only in few. There's no telling what he'll do next, but you always
know it'll be, to say the least, surprising, but always satisfying.

Jourgenson on the other hand, it seems, hears a Big Black record, makes
friends with Skinny Puppy and some speed metalers, and makes the
same record 3 times after a dubious discography of pale techno disco
and commercial dance tunage. [Alright, _Twitch_ was pretty good.] His
wholesale anger is trite, the tone of his lyrics whiney and sophomoric,
and his overall sound contrived. I once heard a comedian say "All you have
to do to be a successful comedian is complain about things." I consider
Al Jourgenson the Andrew Dice Clay of music. Hardly innovative, IMHO.

Forget Ministry. They're the Motley Crue of the 90s.
What about Ai Yamtsuka? Caspar Brotzmann? Hal Russel? KK Null? Ruins?
Tom Cora? The Ex? Life is too short to compromise. 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ gene hopstetter - tceh000@convex1.tcs.tulane.edu. I don't represent Tulane! +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ We are not what we eat, WE ARE WHAT WE DON'T SHIT, and that is it!"         +
+  --Victims Family.                                                          +
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