HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.audio

In rec.audio, jmd@bear.com (Josh Diamond) writes:


>It seems that my question (Class A/B/whatever... What does it mean?)
>has sparked some hearty debate...

>In article <1992Jul17.143248.5738@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> gfl@hera.uucp (22402-lenahan) writes:
>>The original question:
>>>>    What are the specific differences between class A/B/whatever 
>>>>        audio components?
>>The original answer:
>  [deleted for brevity]

>>Now aside from the babble about complementary tubes (????)!,
>>This is way beyond the interest of someone who doesn't understand
>>the definition of class A, AB, B, etc.

>On the contrary -- I would rather hear all the nitty-gritty details.
>It doesn't take a genius to understand the difference now that it has
>been explained.  I know many out there in the industry would like the
>consumers to think that any understanding on their part of audio
>technology is impossible, but get a grip... :-) :-)

>My original reason for posting was a desire to break through some of
>the mumbo-jumbo which seems to prevail both in advertisements for, and
>in reviews of, audio equipment.  The particular passage in mind was in
>a quote from "Stereophile" which appeared in a sales brochure for
>Kinergetics Research equipment (quoted from memory):

>	"the first CD-player to break the Class-A boundary"

>It had always been my understanding that class A/B applied only to
>amplifiers -- I didn't know exactly what it meant, but I knew that A
>must be better...  :-) :-)

>I thought to myself -- why not post, and see if we can clear up some
>of the haze around amplifier technology.  Or at least stir the mud a
>little... :-)

>So, let the technical explanations (and debate) continue.  I would
>personally like to know how class A vs. B vs. AB fits together with
>Tube vs. Transistor.  Grant states that the comment in the original
>response about "complementary tubes" is babble.  Why is this not
>valid?

>And please, lets remember that there are many people out there who
>possess some understanding of electronics, but are beginners in audio
>electronics.  The fact that someone does not yet know the terminology
>does NOT indicate that they are incapable of understanding a good,
>detailed, explanation.


Their are two "standards" (I use this term loosely) for stereo equipment.
The traditional is the amplifier Class A, A/B, B which refers to the
method employed for amplification.

The other "Class-A" identification which you noted in Stereophile applies
to Stereophile's ranking of stereo equipment and has nothing to do with
amplification.

Their Classes A-D are rankings of the musicallity of the equipment.  The
major differentiator being the cost.  Class-A implies "cost is not an
object" and so forth.  Stereophile publishes their recommended components
and the description of the classifications ~6 months.

John Adams

Newsgroups: rec.audio,rec.audio.pro
From: enoch@cs.UAlberta.CA (Enoch Chan)
Subject: Need Comments on Onkyo and Sony Components
Followup-To: rec.audio
Keywords: Cassette Deck, CD Player
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 04:31:18 GMT

    We brought a CD player and two cassette deck recently.  The
CD player is Onkyo DX-702, whereas the cassette decks are:
Onkyo TA-203 and Sony TC-K570.  Since I am not very familiar with 
this components, I would like to hear any good or bad comments about
them.  I an interested in information such as their sound quality,
reliablity, ease of user, etc.  If they are really bad we can still
bring them back to the retailer and exchange with other models within
7 days of purchase.  Any comments are greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
--
Enoch Chan
Computing Science Department		  HOME PH#  : 424-0132
University of Alberta			  OFFICE PH#: 5389
Edmonton, Alberta			  INTERNET  : enoch@cs.ualberta.CA
From: tpremo@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Todd Premo)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Old Pioneer Quadraphonic stuff?????????
Date: 26 Jul 92 07:08:21 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

I may be able to pick up some old pioneer stuff.  It is "Quadraphonic"
and about 15-20 years old.  Does anybody know anything about this stuff
that may be interesting?  Would it be worth picking up for about $30??
	It was explaned to me as being a pair of stereo receivers in 
one cabnet.  It is in need of repair also.

The other piece that I may have access to is an old pioneer power amplifier.
It is a 500 watt-  (250 a side) power amp.  This I also can pick up for 
about $30.  

	Any experience would be helpfull.

	Thanks, 

	Todd
From: "michael flood" <michael.flood@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: deep bass
Date: 21 Jul 92 01:57:42 EST
Reply-To: "michael flood" <michael.flood@channel1.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

>Try the Dorian release of Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition,
>with Jean Guillou on the pipe organ (DOR-90117).  You can almost
>feel the bass hitting you in the face.

I agree!  I just picked it up on a CD shopping spree over the past
weekend.  It must be astounding on a system with a subterranean bass
response.  I am enjoying this one a lot.

--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA
From: kim@Software.Mitel.COM (Kim Letkeman)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Cambridge SoundWorks?
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:46:00 GMT
	<24760017@hpgrla.gr.hp.com> <mgr.712504411@hela.iti.org>
Organization: MITEL Public Switching, Kanata, Ontario, Canada
In-reply-to: mgr@iti.org's message of 30 Jul 92 13:53:31 GMT

In article <mgr.712504411@hela.iti.org> mgr@iti.org (Mike Rother) writes:

| Doesn't Cambridge have the print ads featuring a photo of an
| elderly-looking Henry Kloss listening carefully to some speakers?
| Your comments above about "less brilliant" sound reminded me of that
| picture.  As humans get older, our ability to hear high-frequency
| sound deterioriates.  The Cambridge ads imply that Henry's
| experienced ears were used to help design their speakers.  Makes you
| wonder.

If a set of ears that were badly aged were used to test prototypes,
wouldn't the final result be more "brilliant" and not less? This to
compensate for the supposed decline in high frequency hearing?
--
Kim Letkeman	kim@Software.Mitel.COM
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: 20 or 24 bit digital recording?
Date: 29 Jul 92 02:25:06 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA
Originator: daemon@sword.eng.pyramid.com

In article <1370@eagle.ukc.ac.uk> wgd@ukc.ac.uk (Warren Day) writes:
>
>Vinyl resolution reference:  apparently someone has performed measurements
>of the complex shape forming properties of polyvinyl and it comes out at
>around 16.5, I was also told that CD is 15.5 as you always have at worst
>a .5 bit error, which makes sense.  Shane...?
>
   <sigh>   I doubt if you'll get away with "someone" as being a
   reference.   As for your flowery phrase "complex
   shape forming properties of polyvinyl..."   care to explain what
   the flock it means in ordinary speech...and what bizarre
   relationship you think it has to the "resolution" of a vinyl
   record?
>
>Yes it was an example, I used 5% as I know the resistors you can pick up in
>your hand can do this and I don't know what other technologies can do, although
>I expected it to be better as it is.  5% also made my maths easier.
>
>As was also said combinations of 10K and 20K (or something similar) are used.
   And a doggoned poor one.  If you've ever been within a kilometer
   of an electronics shop, you would be aware that 5% resistors are
   rarely used in anything other than non-critical cirtuits....and
   that 1% resistors are readily available, and that 0.1% resistors
   are available from several suppliers....   and obviously you
   missed JJ's mention of precision laser trimming entirely...or are
   blissfully unaware of the high degree of RELATIVE value accuracy
   available with thin film resistors....     

   5% made your math easier, but totally removed your posting or
   supposed "facts" from any connection to reality....but of course
   it MIGHT just look good to someone who has never opened an EDN in
   their life...or walked into a Radio Shack.
From: mizutanit@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Good Quality Speakers?
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:55:54 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Jul24.130210.23411@udel.edu>, bower@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Tyson Bower) writes:

 
 It is very possible to get extremely deep bass out of speakers which
 use drivers as small as 8 inches.  I happen to own a pair which
 claims to be (nearly) flat down to 30 Hz, and the same company builds
 a model which covers clean down to 25 Hz.  Both units employ dual
 eight inch drivers in rather large, vented enclosures.  
 
 The maker I am refering to is Paradigm.  I actually listened to their
 studio monitors (25-20k) with a test disc.  They truly did provide
 clean, powerful tone down to at least 30 Hz.  At these low frequencies,
 it is not so much the driver itself that is producing the sounds, it
 is the tuned port which is resonating at that frequency.

These speakers you refer to- what model are they and how much do they cost?

Taka                       
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: ar12@quads.uchicago.edu (Richard Nixon)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Adcom 545 & CSW E1 for sale
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:39:50 GMT
Reply-To: ar12@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

For sale:
Adcom 545 II 100W amp  $350
Cambridge Soundworks Ensembles - 4 piece w/laminated subs - $400 
 
Both less than 1 year old, mint condition w original packaging.
 
Andre
From: pc@slipknot.eng.pyramid.com (pc)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: WARNING: Sound Techniques of Los Gatos
Keywords: Measurement techniques
Date: 28 Jul 92 08:31:28 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Pyramid Technology

In article <1992Jul23.233501.21786@cuug.ab.ca> ingoldsb@cuug.ab.ca (Terry Ingoldsby) writes:
>I have nothing to say regarding the quality of service from Los Gatos, but
>several comments on testing equipment.
>
>  1) A scope (unless equiped with a frequency meter) does not work well
>     for frequency measurements.  You will be lucky to get accuracy better
>     than a few per cent in my opinion.  Complaining over 1% errors by use
>     of a scope is probably not meaningful.

It works well enough.  My complaint was a 1% *difference* between the decks.
A scope is just as good as a freq. counter for this.

>  2) Don't be tricked by measuring voltage.  Always convert to dB.  You may
>     find that voltages can vary more than you think for almost immeasurable
>     (or at least inaudible) dB.  Remember 6dB change means a doubling in
>     voltage.  The scale is non-linear.  Convert to dB and see what results
>     you get.

I am aware of that.  There was a 4db difference between channels.   Anyway,
I spoke to another audio repair shop and had them confirm my results.
They said my decks are fixed (correctly this time) and ready for pickup
tomorrow.

pc
-- 
      -m---------    Patrick Connor           Pyramid Technology   
    ---mmm-------    (408) 428-8819           3860 North 1st St.
  -----mmmmm-----    pc@pyramid.com -or-      San Jose, CA           
-------mmmmmmm---    uunet!pyramid!pc         95134
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Compressed audio better than noncompressed?
From: stuartw@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Stuart Woolford)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 00:39:39 GMT
 u.au> <22742@oasys.dt.navy.mil> <MONTA.92Jul24121920@image.mit.edu>
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

monta@image.mit.edu (Peter Monta) writes:

>In article <22742@oasys.dt.navy.mil> curt@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Curt Welch) writes:

>> My guess is that you can probably do something like 8:1 loss free
>> compression on CD's but designing and building the hardware to do this
>> in real time is currently too expensive.

>If you really mean "loss free", i.e., the original 16-bit data is
>reproduced, then this is impossible.  Any audio recording on CD has
>an entropy larger than 2 bits/sample.

why?? ( no, really, I would like to hear you're reason... )

>> ... As I understand it, both the DCC and MD compression algorithms
>> eliminate some sounds based on the human ears ability to here them
>> because of masking effects.
>> ...
>> So, I'm just wondering when people will start claiming that
>> compressed audio sounds better than non-compressed becauses
>> it has been purified?

>Enhancement isn't the goal of these algorithms; they attempt to
>minimize the loudness of quantization noise, so to the extent that
>the compressed audio is indistinguishable from the non-compressed,
>these algorithms are good.  Enhancement/restoration is an interesting
>topic, but it's separate from source coding.

>Peter Monta   monta@image.mit.edu
>MIT Advanced Television Research Program
From: desmondw@merrimack.edu
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Good Quality Speakers: Part II
Date: 23 Jul 92 11:56:18 GMT
Organization: Merrimack College, No. Andover, MA, USA


     Perhaps I should state my case again for those who missed it. I
recently bought a Technics SA-GX710 audio receiver for my home. I
haven't played it yet because I need speakers. But since I know
little about audio in the home(I know much more about car audio),
I decided to ask here for some good names in speakers. They would
be used for the radio and for watching movies. My receiver is capable
of putting out 125 watts/ch. I like my music with a lot of bass. At
the place where I bought the receiver, they had a lot of cheap
speakers( Pioneer, Technics,Sony) and they had Bose. The Bose really
rocked the store more than the others so I was leaning towards the
Bose 601's. But everyone told me that they suck and are overated.
    So, that left me back at the drawing board. Some have given me
opinions, and I appreciate it, but I need more. I heard a pair of
Tannoy's(?) yesterday at a high end place and thought they sounded
OK but a little light on the bass end. Any comments on the Tannoy's
or opinions on what I should look into?
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May)
Subject: Re: Walkman opinions
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 19:42:17 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa

beaker@ford.uchicago.edu (Mike Aguilar) writes:
: 
: Greetings all!
: My apologies if this has been beaten to death recently but I don't
: read rec.audio much.  I've managed to destroy yet another walkman by
: bumping it around, dropping it, and generally man-handling it.  Now that
: I need a new one, I've been looking at the 'sport' walkmans that sony
: has.  Also, i've seen something called 'outback'.  My question is:  are
: these things *really* more solidly build than the ordinary ones or is it
: just a lot of decoration?  Does anyone have any experience with these
: things?  Durability?  Sound quality?  Battery consumption?  Any comments
: and/or opinions would be very much apprieciated.
: 
: Thanx,
: mike
: 
I own two of the yellow "sports" models. Yes, they are more ruggedly built.
I have no experience with the "Outbacks."

For me, the deciding factor is digital pushbutton FM tuning on some of
sports models (especially a small FM-only model). The Outbacks that I have
seen use only the analog knob tuning method.
-- 
..........................................................................
Timothy C. May         | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,  
tcmay@netcom.com       | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
408-688-5409           | knowledge, reputations, information markets, 
W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA  | black markets, collapse of governments.
Higher Power: 2^756839 | RSA MailSafe Public Key: by arrangement
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: CDs and Digital Audio
From: chris@dranet.dra.com
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:15:05 CDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Data Research Associates, St. Louis MO

I have a few questions concerning cds and digital audio.

1) How much memory can a cd hold?

2) I understand the sampling rate of cd digital audio is 44 khz.
   How many bits (or bytes) of memory does a sample consist of?

3) How many seperate signals are stored on a cd? (Just 2 for stereo or 
   are there more?)

4) How far away are we from radio stations broadcasting their
   signal digitally?  Or is this not feasible?

4) Switching to analog signals: If stereo is 2 signals, how
   do FM stations broadcast 2 signals at once?


Thanks

Chris Yunker
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: blu-tak
Date: 30 Jul 92 01:08:25 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA
Originator: daemon@sword.eng.pyramid.com

In article <1346@eouk9.eoe.co.uk> ahaley@eoe.co.uk (Andrew Haley) writes:
>
>Blu-tack is a special adhesive gum invented by Bostik here in England
>which has been optimized for audio applications.  Its ratio of
>cohesion to adhesion is combined with excellent elastic properties to
>firmly attach speakers to stands.  It has many other applications,
>too- discerning audiophiles claim that a thin coating of Blu-Tack
>around the edge of a CD noticeably improves sound quality.
>Because of its anti-vibration properties, it's also excellent for
>holding LP records (remember them?) to the platter.
>
   And REAL audiophiles have discovered that applying a layer to
   your hindquarters keeps you from the inevitable micro-squirms
   in your listening chair that can ruin all that precise imaging
   you've paid for.   



Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: interpol@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Interpol)
Subject: Altec Lansing : any good?
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 01:36:14 GMT


Hi netters,

  I was looking at a set of Altec Lansing P3's yesterday ( the sub/sat system
with a very unique looking subwoofer) and I was wondering if they are worth
buying.  I listened to them, next to a pair of Boston Acoustics SubSat6's, and
the sound was a little bit sharp compared to them, but nothing too major.  I
am considering the Altec Lansings, but the Bostons are very appealing as well,
and I'm also considering the Design Acoustics PS-3, although I haven't listed
to a set.  

  Does anyone out there have any experience with these 3 unit?  If so, please
let me know!  Thanks in advance.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Drew S. Cheng, BA '91 MD '95           | "Compelling, yet tedious...I    |
| Northwestern University                |  feel spent, like a man who is  |
|  Medical School, Chicago, IL USA       |  forced to wear his genitals    |
| Internet : interpol@nwu.edu            |  like a pendant."               |
|                                        |    - Dieter, "Sprockets"        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: sjc28473@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steven Joseph Chmura)
Subject: A/V for under $500?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:59:42 GMT

I am looking for an A/V ProLogic reciever for under $500.  I would
like at least 100 watts/channel.  The Kenwood 8040 and 8540 series
has many features and a lot of power for the money.  They also
use discrete components so the top won't  burn your hand off (Sony
is the worst for this I think).

Anyway, anyone have any comments on this one and sugestions for
something else in the range?  How is Onkyo?

-- 
							Steven Chmura
							MD-2-B

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: gfl@hera.uucp (22402-lenahan)
Subject: Re: Class A/B/whatever... What does it mean?
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 20:36:23 GMT
Summary: marketing obfuscation and class-Z*4

In article <25329@sophia.inria.fr>, td@babar.inria.fr (Thierry Despeyroux) writes:
> In article <5070308@hplsla.hp.com>, tomb@hplsla.hp.com (Tom Bruhns) writes:
> |> The definitions of A, AB, B, C, and D classes is pretty general,
> 
> What are class AA, new class A (Technics products) and
> optical class A (Denon) ?

These are meaningless marketing obfuscation designed to make you
say, "Wow! That's cool! I want one, and I don't have a clue
as to what it really is!"

While I'm sure that some bias-related phenomenon is being coded
into hypo-speak, it does not denote an accepted class of bias and
output operation, and is not an endorsement of quality (except by
the manufacturers in question).

Grant
From: tomf@techbook.com (Thomas E. Flynn)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: discount mail order places (also gray market question)
Date: 23 Jul 92 09:35:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: techbook.1992Jul23.093528.2912
Organization: TECHbooks --- Public Access UNIX --- (503) 644-8135

In article <1992Jul23.024726.4032@news.cs.brandeis.edu> jacob@max.cc.brandeis.edu ( ) writes:
>>They are also one of the more expensive "discount" mail order places.

>Interesting. For the one item I did a thorough comparison on, J&R
>*were* the cheapest. If there are cheaper places out there where the
>heck do they advertise. My comparison included about all the places
>that advertise in Stereo Review...

That's the magazine that I used and J & R was the cheapest, also.  I
suspect that some of the other New York photo outfits may be a bit 
cheaper, but I would trust them less.

Along the same subject line (sort of :-)), does any one know if J & R
is selling gray market?   What is the difference between a normal
dealer and a gray market dealer?

>Some examples of generally cheaper places would be interesting. And,
>even more interesting, how you got to know about them.

A while back, I used to see an ongoing posting in one of the photo groups 
with info about mail order companies.  I looked over there before I posted
the original article, but couldn't find it.  Does anybody know if there
is still a list?


Thanks!

-Tom


-- 

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Tom Flynn                                      Compu$erve ------> 74425,473
tomf@techbook.com                              GEnie  -----------> T.FLYNN2
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: chu@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov (Eugene Chu)
Subject: Re: Parallel/Series?
Organization: SAR Systems Development & Processing, JPL
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 08:43:03 GMT

In article <711497183.23251.0@unix7.andrew.cmu.edu> ri09+@andrew.cmu.edu (Robert W. Igo) writes:
>Okay, given that I have a 180wpc amplifier and two 100-Watt speakers,
>and two 80-Watt speakers, both with the same resistance/impedance, what is
>the ideal way to wire them?  Right now, I have them in series, but what if
>I put them in parallel?  I know about the electrical differences, but I
>don't know enough to know if a speaker is in danger, or maybe the sound
>quality might be better another way.  Any help greatly appreciated!!
>
>[******************************** Bob Igo ********************************]

I'm not sure if it's such a good idea to connect ANY speaker systems
in series.  The reactance of each will make the other sound funny.
If your amplifier can handle it, wire them in parallel.  However,
since they probably do not have the exact smae responses, one will
probably sound louder than the other, but at least both will sound
more accurate.  The key is if your amplifier can do this without
straining.

have fun,
eyc

-- 
>:<  Me:  Eugene Chu (Mr. Butterfly)        | Radar Science & Engineering  >:<
>:<  chu@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov               | Jet Propulsion Laboratory    >:<
"T'is better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness"
But t'is so much easier to curse the darkness.
From: fjohnson@lbl.gov (Fred Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: NAD and Adcom for sale
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:58:54 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: LBL
NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.243.64.95
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1

I have a number of NAD and Adcom components for sale.  Please send me a
want list and I'll send you prices.
Newsgroups: rec.audio,rec.video