HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pye@odie.ee.wits.ac.za (Graham Pye)
Subject: Staying alive at depth!
Summary: Selection of DV's for deep diving
Keywords: DEEP DIVING EQUIPMENT
Organization: Wits Electrical Engineering (Novell Users).
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 13:55:16 GMT

Greetings divers

I'm writing this article on behalf of a group of diving buddies who are 
interested in determining the suitability of DV's for deep diving (around 
50m) and cave diving. We are currently qualified for diving at these depths 
and are considering attending a cave diving course in the near future. 
However we are some what uncertain as to which DV's are rated for such 
depths and best suited to specialised diving and ultimately which model to 
purchase.

Our dilemma so far has been concentrated around the Poseidon, specifically 
the Cyklon 300 (Thor or Odin ???) and the US Divers, say the SE2 model. 
According to surveys available to us, both of the above DV's are capable of 
meeting US Navy group A rating and rated 50m on a test performed 
under the auspices of an intended European standard. Based on an 
informal survey conducted amongst local deep divers and specifically 
cave divers, most have a preference for the Poseidon. This is based "on the 
well proven and reliable design and manufacture of the Poseidon". However 
the SE2 has also been used on deep dives and cave dives.

Our question to any knowledgable diver with exposure to the above 
specialised diving is "is there any technical reason why the Poseidon 
appears to have a greater following than the US Divers?" Are we on the 
receiving end of selective DV brainwashing? 

Any other recommendations and advice on the subject of deep diving *DV's* 
would also be greatly appreciated.

Replies should preferably be sent to my e-mail address (our net-mail 
supervisor is not a diver! (yet :))

Thanks in advance

Graham Pye
CMAS Deep Diver and SAUU Club Instructor
University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg, South Africa
e-mail : pye@odie.ee.wits.ac.za
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: eric@smos.com (Super nice guy)
Subject: Where to learn how to dive
Followup-To: rec.scuba 
Keywords: learning
Organization: S-MOS, Inc
Distribution: ca
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 23:34:15 GMT

Hi!

Well, I am thinking of getting into the world of Scuba Diving.  I live in the
Bay Area and I'm looking around for a good deal to learn how to scuba (I have
tried it before but it was just a simple 2-day class to learn how to dive in
a shallow place).  Anyway, I was looking around (I live in Mountain View), 
and a place called Wet pleasure seems to be giving a good price (class for
$89.00, books + dive table + misc for $35.00, rental for class + openwater
for $69.00 and dive certification for $20.00).  Most other places seem
to charge about $250 for the above.  Now, I have a few questions for
you experts out there:

1) How is the class from Wet Pleasure?

2) How is the price compared to other places?

3) I have heard that for the open water, the instructor sometimes charges
above and beyond the course cost (another $50-$100).  Is this true?

4) Are there any other places that I could take the course that are
cheaper/better?  I'm just looking for a simple PADI/NAUI open water
certification.

5) Do you have anything to suggest to a novice?

Thank you very much for any help!!

Eric (please email to: eric@smos.com)


Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: craig@cattnts.canada.ncr.com (Craig Campbell)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: "Safety violations..." continuation...
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:52:19 GMT
Organization: AT&T / NCR Canada Ltd., Toronto, Canada

In article <1bcbfmINN9df@fido.asd.sgi.com> leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones) writes:
>On a more general note:

>It's clear that you and this instructor have a personality conflict at 
>the least.

Well, it's clear that there is a conflict, but not that it is personality.

>There may be issues of her conforming to NAUI standards, but
>this (rec.scuba) is simply not the place to try this case.  There are 
>many reasons why this is an inappropriate forum for this argument, not
>the least of which is that we are only getting one side of it.

I would disagree here.  I am now curious to know the results of this.
Will our fledgling instructor have his wings clipped?
Will NAUI investigate?
Can one pissed off instructor prevent an almost instructor from becoming
a full instructor on such intangeble grounds as the Loved Ones Rule?  (I
would hope that it would take more than one person to make that decision.)

What will happen?  I want to know.  Do NOT under any circumstances release
the other instructor's name.  She is innocent until convicted by NAUI.
(Lee is correct that we are only hearing one side of the story, remember that
everyone.)
	
My opinion:  NAUI should be informed (inevitable now, I suspect), and should
	    investigate.

I am interested in how well NAUI responds.  Hopefully we (NAUI) will perform
well under adversity.

>Regards, Lee

craig
(ok, just this once, NAUI DM)

-- 
Craig Campbell		|	These opinions are entirely the result of a 
Systems Engineer	|	small butterfly crashing into the far side
NCR Canada,		|	of the planet.  Chaos Rules.
an AT&T Company		|	I speak for no one, except, possibly, myself.
From: jms@carat.arizona.edu (A virtually vegetal non-entity)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: INFO:Diving in Porte Rico?
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:31:00 GMT
Reply-To: jms@Arizona.EDU
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona MIS Department - Mosaic Group
X-Lunar-Date: 1 day, 16 hours, 43 minutes since the first quarter of the moon
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50A

In article <1992Oct6.202931.1@sscvx1.ssc.gov>, schludermann@sscvx1.ssc.gov writes...
> 
>  I'm interested in information about diving in Porte Rico. Anyone have
>experience diving there?

No, but I have been to Puerto Rico, and the conditions may be similar.

The situation when I went was this: the main city is San Juan.  The diving
near San Juan is awful.  In order to dive, you need to drive an hour or two
to almost any other coast, and you can get great Caribbean-style diving.

HOWEVER, I did do one dive off of San Juan, which I recommend you try.
This was just three of us: two divers and the "guide," who left from the
Radisson Hotel near downtown.  She charged $45 for one dive, with
equipment rental (beach dive).  Here's the excerpt from my log book:

Temp: 78
Bottom Time: 1:06 
Air used: 1900 (St72)
Max depth: 27 ft

"Sea horses, sea horses, sea horses!  These were living in a sandy
area just outside the pier pilings (about 10 ft).  Easy to play with,
including a pregnant male.  Wow!  A family of damselfish, including
a micro-baby (.5 inch?) living around an arrow crab.  Some "lizardfish"
were unusual as well.  Trunkfish, lots of angels, and sargeants,
plus some butterflyfish.  Minimum of bivalves; a couple of good sized
lobsters in a cave.  Not many corals, but lots of sea fans and anenomes.
Two cucumbers.  Current and visibility a minus although this was more local
weather (cloudy and raining) than anything else.  A baby octopus in a beer
bottle watched over by some peacock flounder.  Karen  was an OK guide --
she spent time with the octopus and sea horses, but skipped over and
hurried just a little.  Bottom time was good, but we had air for another
10 minutes easily.  Urchins, bristleworms and stonefish the only 
dangerous things (NO FIRE CORAL!).  Mostly a sand bottom with rock
outcroppings.  Easy to lose way---the upsa and downs weren't easy to
follow.  Need to remember to travel with or rent a DIVE LIGHT next time!

(Caribe Aquatic Adventures, 809-724-1882/809-765-7444 (evenings))

Joel M Snyder, 1103 E Spring Street, Tucson, AZ, 85719 
Phone: 602.882.4094 (voice) .4095 (FAX) .4093 (data)
BITNET: jms@Arizona  Internet: jms@arizona.edu  SPAN: 47541::telcom::jms
Yow!  I'm having a quadrophonic sensation of two winos
 alone in a steel mill!
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: ram@watson.bms.com (Gena Ram)
Subject: Re: Women and doubles
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Bristol Myers Squibb Pharmaceutical Research Institute
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 15:55:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.152538.4557@bb1t.monsanto.com>, tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com writes...
>In article <1992Oct14.143656.2733@cattnts.canada.ncr.com>, craig@cattnts.canada.ncr.com (Craig Campbell) writes:
>> In article <13OCT199219521791@watson.bms.com> ram@watson.bms.com (Gena Ram) wr


>> Doubles are a b**ch for everyone, and climbing onto any boat with them is not
>> easy.  Tips?  Asside from a serious strength training program 
>> (Ms. Schwartzeneger? :-)), talk to your friends on the boat.  You should be 
>> able to handle yourself and all your equipment without assistance.  That does
>> NOT mean that it is necessary or desirable to do so.  Up here, at least on the
>> boats I've been on, everybody HELPS everyone else.  This includes helping to
>> pull you up the ladder, walk on a rocking deck, etc.  This is not because
>> you are inadequate or unable, but because it increases everyones fun and 
>> safety.  (Hauling yourself and doubles up a ladder after a good dive is 
>> EXERCISE, and you, as a freshly nitrogen enriched diver are supposed to avoid
>> exercise.) 
> 
>Absolutly.  When I dive, someone always tends the diver entering and exiting
>the water.  I almost *NEVER* reenter the boat with my tank on.  We usually
>have someone grab onto the tank or BC and then we release the BC straps.  
>The person on the boat then hauls the tank(s) onboard.  I'd never expect
>someone diving doubles to climb onboard with them on. 

I'm not sure _exactly_ why they won't do this, but I think it may be due to the 
currents being strong (diving in NJ is only *easy* about 2 months of the year 
for me!)  I have been emailed alot of comment on this point (more than on the 
original question!) and it seems to go either to 1. "What type of operation 
are you diving with" type comments, or 2. "Yes, that is a dangerous practice". 
I think the boats I dive on happen to be top notch in my somewhat limited 
experience.  I have been on dive boats in Fla (grew up there) and Hawaii that 
the mates take your gear from you on the platform and yes, it was a treat, but 
it has always been in optimal conditions.  In reality, getting on board is 
only a problem for me with alllllllllll those tanks.


>> craig
>> 
>> P.S.  If your ever up here, I'll help haul you out! :-)
> 
>Sheesh, every time we get a chick on rec.scuba, Craig's gotta make a play 
>for her.    ;-)
> 
>Ted Feuerbach - Scientific Systems Consultant

Ted?! I guess I'll take that as a compliment?!

Thanks guys,
Gena
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: kkwwkk@mixcom.com (TA Shaw)
Subject: Sea of Cortez
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:54:45 GMT


Can anyone tell me about diving the Sea of Cortez in the November
or December time frame.  Is this time period good or bad for
diving.  What are the best areas to be diving?  And finally
I've heard people talk of seeinf sea lions, manta rays, whales,
etc....is there are time of the year that would increase one's
chances of seeing them?

Thanks.

Tom Shaw

P.S. Has anyone had any experience using the PADI Travel Network
to arrange dive trips?
-- 
   "Life is a highway, I want to drive it all night long" 
    Tom Cochrane 
    1983 750 Maximum
    kkwwkk@mixcom.com                 shaw@mixcom.com
From: ram@watson.bms.com (Gena Ram)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Women and doubles
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:34:00 GMT
Organization: Bristol Myers Squibb Pharmaceutical Research Institute
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In article <1992Oct16.194450.26661@sco.com>, billp@sco.COM (Jerque Clumsoe) writes...
> 
>In article <13OCT199219521791@watson.bms.com> ram@watson.bms.com (Gena Ram) writes:
>>
>>I have a problem that maybe someone can help me with.  I have recently 
>>returned from a 4 day live aboard where I was using double 72's 

   etc. etc.

>>I need any tips on technique 
>>anyone has to offer.
>>
> 
>Well Gena, I'm not sure why you're even using doubles? I think you'd
>be better off using a large single cylinder. With the amount of drag
>those doubles have, you'll probably have close to the same bottom time.
>I'm curious to why you're using doubles and why they won't let you
>take off any gear in the water? 

I'm using them to increase my bottom time.  I didn't find them to be 
"drag-ing" at all (but that could be because I was so 'into' the dive, I 
didn't notice!) and found that it greatly increased my bottom time.  I have 
pretty good breath control (if I do say so!) from working out _alot_.  I 
actually felt that because of the way the doubles seemed to balance on my
back, I felt much more in control than with one biiiigggg tank and the 
super pony.

>Anyway, pretty hard to do a pull up with those doubles on your back.

Boy you're not kidding!

>Interesting that they won't let you take off any gear in the water.
>Seems that you could hang your doubles off on a rope and have somebody
>help you haul it up once you get topside. Also, If your tank backpack 
>and BC are a integrated unit, I would just float the whole thing with 
>your buddy holding on to it till you get some help. The only other
>suggestion I may offer is to have your buddy tie a rope to your tanks
>while you're in the water. Have him/her go up first and then she/he
>can help you up by relieving you of some of the weight of your cylinders
>by pulling up on the rope as you come up the ladder. It should also
>give you some stability till you get topside. But, if you really need
>that much air, I'd recommend a large single tank like a 120. Hope this
>helps.
> 
> 
>-mr.billp@sco.com

I responded to the whole in water/on deck gear question before.  I hope that 
someone who is a captain/mate/boat type person can maybe give the definitive 
response to that issue, as it seems to have raised some discussion here!

Thanks for the input!  Gena
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: njs@scifi.uucp (Nicholas J. Simicich)
Subject: Re: User configurable Computers
Organization: Nick Simicich, Peekskill, NY
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:46:26 GMT

In article <67367@cup.portal.com> wcc@cup.portal.com (wcc - usa) writes:
>Does anyone know of any computers that will allow you to change
>the depth mode from Feet to Meters & the Temp Mode from F to C.

The Scubapro DC-11 allows you to change the computer over fairly
easily, from the front panel.  It has to be out of the water for you
to do this.



-- 
Nick Simicich - uunet!bywater!scifi!njs - njs@watson.ibm.com
SSI #AOWI 3958, HSA 318, NAUI #14065
Join the movement ---  turn 'to bush' into a verb.
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: gregr@joyce.cs.su.oz.au (Greg Ryan)
Subject: availability of Buhlmann's "Decompression/Decompression Sickness"
Reply-To: gregr@cs.su.oz.au (Greg Ryan)
Organization: Basser Dept of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 07:23:19 GMT

I've been told by the Australian distributors of Springer-Verlag that
Buhlmann's book "Decompression/Decompression Sickness" (the English
translation) is out of print and unavailable.  Does anyone in the US
or Europe know of its availability elsewhere?  Please email me if
you have any info so as not to clutter up this group.
			
				Greg Ryan	gregr@cs.su.oz.au
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: gregr@joyce.cs.su.oz.au (Greg Ryan)
Subject: Re: Nitrox for safety?
Reply-To: gregr@cs.su.oz.au (Greg Ryan)
Organization: Basser Dept of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 14:29:33 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.154323.17538@meiko.com> gordon@meiko.com (Gordon Henderson) writes:
>Just thinking about Nitrox ...
>
>Anyone out there using Nitrox for safety purposes, as opposed to using
>to extend bottom times or reduce deco. times? (Which would be hard for
>me to do anyway, as no one else in my club is even thinking of using
>Nitrox yet)

I should also add as an adjunct to my last posting, that all the instructors
and dive cons (SSI jargon I believe) at the only Sydney facility providing
nitrox use it regularly on all their courses to give them an extra margin
of safety with the typical multiple ascents, etc that seem to go with teaching.

					Greg Ryan	gregr@cs.su.oz.au

facii

Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: schludermann@sscvx1.ssc.gov
Subject: RFI: LEGEND DIVE COMPUTER
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 00:29:47 GMT

   I'm considering buying the legend dive computer by sherwood. I would like
who have personal experience with this computer to reply the most but I'll
welcome all opinions. things like complexity of use, visability of readouts,
idosancracies ... thanqs 
 
kris
From: jdc@sunset.cse.nau.edu (John Campbell)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Questions on getting certified in Cozumel...
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:49:52 GMT
Followup-To: jdc@sunset.cse.nau.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff AZ
Originator: jdc@sunset.cse.nau.edu

A couple here in Flagstaff (inland, mountainous, no dive shops) is 
very interested in going to Cozumel to get their basic scuba 
certification.  My wife and I had a wonderful time diving there this 
summer.  One of the things we did was take a half-day refresher course 
and we were amazed at how good our instructor was.  (We liked our Bay 
Area instructor just fine, so it's not that...)

We noted that full certification courses were running about $300 and 
took about 3 days.  It seemed to us a wonderful way to get certified,
and this couple is excited to try this approach.

However, I don't know what else to tell them.  I remember that someone 
posted an article describing their experiences getting certified in 
Cozumel.  Are any of you still out there?

Also, I don't know if most Cozumel shops are doing PADI or NAUI.  I do
remember, from the aforementioned, very old, article, that the author 
recommended studying the book before getting into the course (since 
three days isn't a lot of time to learn all the book material).  But 
which book?  And, since ours was purchased through a course, how do 
you order one?

What equipment should they purchase before going to Cozumel?  I've
recommended a visit to Phoenix (our closest dive shops) and that they
get help selecting mask, snorkel, and fins.  Anything else that's a
"must" for a beginner?  I wouldn't expect a beginner to buy a mask
mail order, would you?  (I do want to save them as much money as 
possible, however.)

I know a lot of instructors read this list.  What are the pros and cons
of going this route?  It seemed to me a concentrated three days would
have been better than the twice a week pool sessions we had before our
open water dives.  (Of course, they won't know the joys of 3/8" wet suits,
blue lips, and 25 lb weight belts since it will be warm water diving...)

Does anyone who's done this want to respond?  Do you have a particular
dive shop that was good?  (We used Aqua Safaris.)  Can the better
travel agencies (like Sea Safaris) set up a package that includes
certification?  Are there going to be hidden costs?  (We were looking
for a new dive table while in Cozumel--$35.00!)

If responders would email to me directly I'd appreciate it.  I'll be 
glad to summarize back to this news group if there is enough interest.
-- 
	John Campbell               John.Campbell@nau.edu
        jdc@sunset.cse.nau.edu      JDC@NAUVAX.UCC.NAU.EDU
From: nbennet11@cc.swarthmore.edu (Nathaniel Bennett)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Shark Stories
Date: 12 Oct 92 20:31:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: cc.XGQRBR27
Organization: student

I just discovered this news group and see it as a prime opportunity to
learn about my favorite subject - sharks. I am NAUI ceritified and aan
undergraduate biology student but I have yet to get in th ewater with a
shark so I am longing to hear stories from people who have seen sharks
underwater. I'm not a thrill seeker - I think sharks are marvels of
evolution and remarkable predators - and as such must be treated with
repect and caution. So if any of you would like to share your encounters
with sharks please post them or e-mail me. Thank you.

Nathaniel Bennett
nbennet1@cc.swarthmore.edu
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: stevem@col.hp.com (Steve Meyer)
Subject: Re: Staying alive at depth!
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 19:25:59 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division


I am very sorry for spouting off because I thought DV was DPV.
Please accept my apologies; I really regret getting so hot.

                                  - steve meyer -
From: larisa@tcville.edsg.hac.com (Larisa Stephan)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Preferred Compass and Console configuration
Date: 7 Oct 92 23:00:13 GMT
Reply-To: larisa@tcville.edsg.hac.com
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co. EOS, El Segundo, CA

Somebody asked about the design of the Oceanic Navcon console, which
contains a depth gauge, compass, and SPG.

I have one of these, but I made sure to get the OLD-STYLE boot, which
has the depth and air pressure gauges on one side, with the compass
on the flip side.  I find this much more intuitively appealling, since
I usually want to consult depth AND pressure to figure the remaining
dive profile.  I also got the "max depth" version of the depth gauge,
which includes a max-depth follower needle and a thermometer.  At least,
I think the thermometer is in the depth gauge rather than the SPG.

Most shops where I've seen this console in the display case still have
some of the old-style boots hanging around, and some of them have a
supply in various blinding fashion colors (I was stuck with basic black).

-- Larisa
larisa@tcville.edsg.hac.com

Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: lowe@fnx.uucp (Phill Lowe)
Subject: Re: Safety/Standards Violations
Organization: I/Ovations
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 07:32:50 GMT

I can only claim to be a PADI Divemaster but your article causes me concern.
Safety should be of primary concern.  Most of my training as a Divemaster in 
assisting with classes consisted of being aware of and being always ready to
respond to any problems.  There is NO way to do that if you are not in the
pool and reasonably near the students.  That is a major purpose of having
additional instructors and divemaster/assistants.  It is very impressive to
watch (and be part of) a well trained Team.  The student's are never given 
a chance to be out of close supervision.  The divemasters should be behind
the student (singular) when they do the skill.  That way the DM can assist
if the mask strap gets tangled or something else happens behind the student 
that the instructor can't see. (o one can see everything!)  Even later,
when the skill is being rehersed, the divemasters and instructors should
be spread out so that they are all reasonably close to any student.

I know PADI has strict rules on this and would be amazed if NAUI can afford
not to.  Your actions so far have been correct!  Talking to the instructor
after the students are gone is great.  Defensive is not suprising, human 
nature.  And it may be a case of familiarity and gradually getting lazy.
Take this lesson to heart and spend some time to train and develop the
promising individuals who are interested in being assistants.  They can
make your life much easier if you show them they are appreciated and 
valued.
I would not hesitate to contact headquarters if I didn't see a noticible
improvement.  Think about how you would FEEL if there was an accident
and one of the students was hurt........  SCUBA is not to be taken lightly
and the example set by the instructor will carry on with all of the students.
Truely; Lives are at stake.    
 
Phill Lowe, PADI Divemaster since '86.