HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibmtcp-l
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 14:00:00 EDT
From:         Mike.Porter@MVS.UDEL.EDU
Subject:      Selecting Default Appl.
X-To:         IBMTCP-L@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU

Environment:  MVS/ESA, TCP/IP V2R1 (Could upgrade to V2R2 to solve
                                    problem)

Currently, we have all users that telnet to our MVS machine
connect to our front end VTAM application.  We don't want the user
to see any other frontend software or answer any extra questions.
Currently, this is handled by using the DEFAULTAPPL statement
within BEGINVTAM/ENDVTAM.

What we need is some way to distinguish another set of users and
provide them with a different DEFAULTAPPL (or set of LUs).  (ie:
a normal telnet connects to our current frontend program, telnet
mvs.udel.edu 1025 connects directly to a CICS).

These other users could connect to a different port, but we don't
see any way to link a different DEFAULTAPPL to this port.  (This
assumes its possible to run two telnet servers within the same
address space as well - I don't know if you can)

They could connect using a different IP address, but I don't
believe its possible to have the same TCP/IP address space
service two different IP addresses.  Even if you could, I
don't see anyway to specify a different DEFAULTAPPL based
on the incomming IP address.

Another alternative that would work for us is to use the same
DEFAULTAPPL, but to use a different set of LUs.  But again, I
don't see how to choose from different pools of LUs based on
either a port or IP address.

Any thoughts or suggestions?  All sessions are full screen 3270,
so LINEMODE tricks are not going to be useful.

Thanks,

Mike Porter
Senior Systems Programmer
University of Delaware
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibmtcp-l
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:31:04 EDT
From:         Roger Fajman <RAF@NIHCU.BITNET>
Subject: Re: ptfs and such via ftp

> >         * CREN networks may be used for the provision of services which
> >           support the needs and purposes of the CREN networks, and for
> >           which a charge is made, if the network is an optional mechanism
> >           for provision of this service for which no additional charge is
> >           made, and as long as the use of the service is consistent with
> >           the bandwidth of the network and the forwarding hosts.
> >           Providers of such information may be non-profit or for-profit
> >           organizations.
>
> Ok, that's one.  Can you remind me, though, what organizations are served
> by CREN?
>
> Doug

BITNET in the United States.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Organization: University of California S.F. Hospital Information Systems
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibmtcp-l
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 13:15:36 PST
From:         "Sean McGrath" <SEAN@OAK.HIS.UCSF.EDU>
Subject: Looking for SNMPMIB DATA for RFC 1159 ( MIB II)

 I am looking for SNMPMIB DATA for RFC 1159 (MIB II) for use with the
 VM SNMP package from Queens University.  Do you know of anyone that
 has a n RFC 1159 version?

 (For the curious: 'tell listserv at qucdn index public').

Thanks

Sean McGrath - Phone: 415-476-9682 - Fax: 415-476-8605
Email: Internet - sean@oak.his.ucsf.EDU * Bitnet - SEAN at UCSFHC
Paper: UCSF HIS; MCB 401; S.F. Ca. 94143-0814
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: University at Albany Computing Services
X-Acknowledge-To: <BEC@ALBANY>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibmtcp-l
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:50:19 EDT
From:         Ben Chi <BEC@ALBANY.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: News reader for VM (NNTP client)
              23 Jul 1992 13:41:03 -0700 from <ewilts@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA>

On Thu, 23 Jul 1992 13:41:03 -0700 Ed Wilts said:
>I'm looking for a News reader to run under VM.  Ideally this will allow me to
>access a remote NNTP server (ANU-NEWS under VMS).  Any pointers greatly
>appreciated.

Paul Campbell (campbell@mitre.org) has written just that.  The abstract from
the documentation says, in part:

  "Network News Reader/VM (NNR) gives VM users interactive access to a
  wide variety of bulletin boards, digests and interest groups.  . . NNR
  allows access to the various news groups.  Inherent in this access is
  the ability to read an article, print the article, save the article,
  forward the article to a colleague and post an article to the Bulletin
  Board.  . . Network News Reader/VM (NNR) is a client implementation of
  Network News Transfer Protocol (NNTP) a.k.a RFC 977."

NNR is a really nicely executed piece of work.  I recommend it.
                                             /b
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibmtcp-l
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 11:14:54 CDT
From:         Rick Troth <TROTH@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU>
Subject:      NULLsocket (for DIAL VTAM mod)

Hi,

        Me again.   Still no joy.   :-(

        I've tried replacing  "NULLsocket"  with  "0"  and also with
"SocketType".   (figured that later wouldn't work)   Neither worked.
If someone knows  Pascal  and/or  the TCP/IP source  well enough,
could ya drop me a note?

        John graciously gave us a pre-compiled MODULE,  but I need
Dave L's BTI driver *and* DIAL VTAM,  so I need to be able to build it.

        Where is NULLsocket defined?   I can't find it and have looked
at  *several*  macros.

Rick Troth <TROTH@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU>, Rice University, I/S VM Systems Support
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibmtcp-l
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 12:07:18 CDT
From:         Frank Vance <FrankVance@AIRGUN.WG.WAII.COM>
Subject:      MVS TCP/IP operator interface
X-To:         IBM TCP/IP List <IBMTCP-L@PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU>

I don't remember having asked this before, so I'll give it a try.

How do MVS shops allow the operators to do some things (like start
and stop devices) without allowing them to also re-configure TCP/IP?
If you just let them use OBEYFILE without restrictions, they could easily
change things that don't need changing.

I would like to be able to allow the operators to only issue OBEYFILEs
to stop and start devices.  Any suggestions?

Thanks,
--
Frank Vance  +1.713.963.2426		Western Geophysical
fvance@airgun.wg.waii.com		10001 Richmond Avenue
Fax: +1.713.963.2758			Houston, TX 77042   USA
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibmtcp-l
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:49:20 EDT
From:         "Jim Keohane, TCP/IP for MVS, TJ Watson" <JIMKEO@YKTVMV.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: MVS TCP FTP

<I have my MVS ftp.data (inactive =600 secs). The msg occurs within 1 min.
<The MVS client userid does not have a private copy of ftp.data..
<Can someone explain when this inactive timer gets set ? Should it get
<set earlier / is it broken ???

   There is no such INACTIVE=nnnn option in FTP.DATA. The FTP Client
code uses a value of 60 seconds. I'll contact you directly for further
discussion.  - Jim
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibmtcp-l
Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 13:14:04 EDT
From:         TOSDRST@GE1VM.SCHDY.GE.COM
Subject:      ptf's and such via Internet
X-To:         ibmtcp-l@pucc.princeton.edu

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
From:
Subject: ptf's and such via Internet
 Some 'smaller' than IBM do have code available on servers that may
be pulled down by customers... The previous exchange 'Proper Use of
Internet' might beg the question.. Would commercial companies that
use these vendor products to support the company services be allowed
to pull ptf's etc down ? Indeed some of these companies 'guess who'
provide mainframe services for Research and Development divisions
as well as other company divisions... Kinda sticky issue !!!!
Just more thought on the subject.
 Don Smith
  GE- Schenectady Megacenter

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
From The Desk of Don Smith.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Princeton University, Network Systems, Class. 56
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibmtcp-l
Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 10:31:16 -0400
From:         gettes@PRINCETON.EDU
Subject:      ptfs and such via ftp
X-To:         ibmtcp-l@pucc.Princeton.EDU

It would appear that aix attempted to put up fixes via anonymous
ftp. Wouldn't it be nice if this could be done for the FAL product?
This would eliminate a lot of waste of money for mailing tapes, it
would save the plastic for the mailing envelope and the tape itself.
It would seem most practical and financially beneficial to IBM to
offer this (free!) to the customers of the FAL/HAL products.

A pipe dream... I know.

/mrg

------- Forwarded Message

Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 09:22:06 EDT
Reply-To: IBM AIX Discussion List <AIX-L@pucc>
From: David Joyner <nsysdbj@STRAYLIGHT.ACS.NCSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: address of IBM ftp server for fixes, etc.
X-To:         AIX-L%PUCC.BITNET@ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu
To: "Michael R. Gettes" <GETTES@pucc>
              at Jul 24, 92 2:07 pm

Mike Ellwood wrote:
>
>I'm sure I've seen this posted, but have lost all record of it, very
>foolishly. Can anyone help? Thanks.
>Mike Ellwood (mwe@ib.rl.ac.uk)
>

software.watson.ibm.com.

Don't expect to much...

- --
David Joyner (david_joyner@ncsu.edu)
Unix Systems Programmer                            | Phone: (919) 515-2794  |
NCSU Administrative Computing Services             | FAX:   (919) 515-3787  |

------- End of Forwarded Message
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibmtcp-l
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:56:08 EDT
Reply-To:     Doug Nelson <NELSON@msu.edu>
From:         Doug Nelson <08071TCP@MSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Didn't someone have a FINGER server written REXX?
X-To:         Jim Jones <JIMJ@JHUVM.BITNET>
X-cc:         IBMTCP-L <IBMTCP-L@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>
              21 Jul 1992 14:06:15 EST from
              <JIMJ%JHUVM.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>

Jim Jones asks:
> I thought I remembered someone offering a REXX FINGER server on this
> list in the past few months, but I can't find any mention of it in
> the list archives.  Well, of course I need something like that now,
> and was wondering if the author was still around.  And while I am
> interested in a FINGER server specifically, I'm really desparate for
> a REXX server of any kind.  I've been handed the task of getting a
> Talaris 2090 TCP/IP based printer working and I'm going to have to
> write an accounting server.  Since I've never written a TCP/IP based
> application before, I'd like to see some working code first!

I think that was me.  I have sent a copy of it to you.  It has a lot of
junk that is specific to our mail package, and I should point out that
it hangs up some times, primarily because the REXTCPIP package wasn't
really designed to handle everything a server needs.

Doug Nelson
Michigan State University
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Return-Path: <lbdyck@osreq48.rockwell.com>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibmtcp-l
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 08:05:55 PST
From:         "Lionel B. Dyck" <lbdyck@OSREQ48.ROCKWELL.COM>
Subject:      SLIP
X-To:         IBM TCP/IP Listserv <ibmtcp-l@pucc.princeton.edu>

Does the MVS version of TCP/IP from IBM support SLIP...?

I am looking to set up a SLIP Server for our users and have 2 possible platforms
to put it on (either MVS or OS/2).  Any suggestions?

Is anyone using the OS/2 TCP/IP SLIP for a Server and if so how many connections
can it serve?

Thanks.



>>>  One of the most dangerous forms of human error is forgetting   <<<
>>>       what one is trying to achieve......Paul Nitze             <<<
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Lionel B. Dyck              | Rockwell TSO:      WCC1.$A1238        *
* M/C:       110-SE28         | Rockwell VM:       ISCEMS(LBDYCK)     *
* Comnet:    797-1125         | IBMLink:           ROK2027            *
* Phone:     (310) 797-1125   | IBM Mail:          USROKNTN           *
* Fax:       (310) 797-3511   | Internet: LBDyck@osreq48.Rockwell.Com *
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Originally-To: cvg@dbaix.oc.com
X-Cc: IBMTCP-L@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibmtcp-l
Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 15:15:00 EDT
From:         "Doug.Nelson" <NELSON@MSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: ptfs and such via ftp
X-To:         IBMTCP-L@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU

Cleve Graves asks:
>This is what we have been planning, the use of a commercial net connection.
>The question I have is what happens if I'm commercial net attached and someone
>with a NSFNET attach ftp's a fix to their location to use in their for-profit
>commercial systems?  Have we been bad citizens in the Internet community?

In this case, I would place the blame on the recipient.  If you have
only an NSFNET connection, you should know better than to pull down
*any* software over NSFNET for commercial use.

Doug
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibmtcp-l
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:55:26 EDT
From:         Roger Fajman <RAF@NIHCU.BITNET>
Subject: Re: ptfs and such via ftp

> Leonard Woren writes:
> >I think there is one more restriction.  (Or am I confused and this
> >restriction is for Bitnet?)  The service provider cannot charge extra
> >for providing fixes/whatever over the net.  It has to be an optional
> >no-extra-charge alternative to their standard distribution methods.
> >(I.e., it has to benefit the customer, not (just) the vendor.)
>
> I haven't heard of such a restriction for Bitnet or any other net.
> There isn't anything I have seen in any of the Acceptable Use documents
> that states or implies this.
>
> Doug Nelson
> Michigan State University

From CREN NET_USE on LISTSERV@BITNIC:

         * CREN networks may be used for the provision of services which
           support the needs and purposes of the CREN networks, and for
           which a charge is made, if the network is an optional mechanism
           for provision of this service for which no additional charge is
           made, and as long as the use of the service is consistent with
           the bandwidth of the network and the forwarding hosts.
           Providers of such information may be non-profit or for-profit
           organizations.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Return-Path: <MICHAEL@PENNDRLS.UPENN.EDU>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibmtcp-l
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 12:12:25 EST
From:         "Michael W. Kearney" <MICHAEL@PENNDRLS.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      WDSF Questions
X-To:         ibmtcp-l%pucc.bitnet@NOC2.DCCS.UPENN.EDU

Recentky I posted a couple of questions to this list about WDSF. I didn't
 receive
any answers from list participants, but I have now found out the answers from
other sources. Here they are:

Q: Will the WDSF client program for the Sun run under SunOS 4.1.2?

A: Yes. We've installed in on our SunOS 4.1.2 and successfully tested it.


Q: When will the WDSF DOS client which can use TCPIP communications be
 available?

A: It's available now. The PTF number is IP00856. It comes on 6, 3 1/2"
 diskettes.
We've installed it on a DOS 4.0 PC runing FTP Software's TCP/IP rel 2.05 and it
appears to work. We have not yet tried it with IBM's TCP/IP.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibmtcp-l
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:20:55 EDT
From:         JIMKEO@YKTVMV.BITNET
Subject:      Re: VM V2R2 SFS FTP Client Problem. was Automated FTP session

On July 20th, Kent Fiala stated:
<   There is another
<problem in 2.2 where the program stack gets discarded if you are FTP'ing
<from an SFS directory.  IBM hasn't closed this problem yet, but the
<following update to CMDASDR does the trick for me:

   A variation of his fix plus other corrections will be incorporated
into the PTF for APARs PN18331 and PN18334. It should be available soon.

   - Jim Keohane, IBM TCP/IP
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibmtcp-l
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 13:45:54 EDT
Reply-To:     Doug Nelson <NELSON@msu.edu>
From:         Doug Nelson <08071TCP@MSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: ptfs and such via ftp
X-To:         Leonard D Woren <LDW%USCMVSA.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>
X-cc:         IBMTCP-L <IBMTCP-L@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>
              24 Jul 1992 17:34:00 PDT from
              <LDW%USCMVSA.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>

Leonard Woren writes:
>I think there is one more restriction.  (Or am I confused and this
>restriction is for Bitnet?)  The service provider cannot charge extra
>for providing fixes/whatever over the net.  It has to be an optional
>no-extra-charge alternative to their standard distribution methods.
>(I.e., it has to benefit the customer, not (just) the vendor.)

I haven't heard of such a restriction for Bitnet or any other net.
There isn't anything I have seen in any of the Acceptable Use documents
that states or implies this.

Doug Nelson
Michigan State University
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibmtcp-l
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:01:09 EDT
Reply-To:     Doug Nelson <NELSON@msu.edu>
From:         Doug Nelson <08071TCP@MSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: ptfs and such via ftp
X-To:         IBM TCP/IP List <IBMTCP-L@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>
              27 Jul 1992 19:55:26 EDT from
              <RAF%NIHCU.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>

Roger Fajman writes:

>From CREN NET_USE on LISTSERV@BITNIC:
>
>         * CREN networks may be used for the provision of services which
>           support the needs and purposes of the CREN networks, and for
>           which a charge is made, if the network is an optional mechanism
>           for provision of this service for which no additional charge is
>           made, and as long as the use of the service is consistent with
>           the bandwidth of the network and the forwarding hosts.
>           Providers of such information may be non-profit or for-profit
>           organizations.

Ok, that's one.  Can you remind me, though, what organizations are served
by CREN?

Doug
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:23:22 EDT
From: Peter M. Weiss <PMW1@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibmtcp-l
Subject: Re: Selecting Default Appl.

In article <107583 >, Bill Kelly <KELLYWH@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU> says:

>>What we need is some way to distinguish another set of users and
>>provide them with a different DEFAULTAPPL (or set of LUs).  (ie:
>>a normal telnet connects to our current frontend program, telnet
>>mvs.udel.edu 1025 connects directly to a CICS).
>>
>>These other users could connect to a different port, but we don't
>>see any way to link a different DEFAULTAPPL to this port.  (This
>>assumes its possible to run two telnet servers within the same
>>address space as well - I don't know if you can)
>>
>>Another alternative that would work for us is to use the same
>>DEFAULTAPPL, but to use a different set of LUs.  But again, I
>>don't see how to choose from different pools of LUs based on
>>either a port or IP address.
>>
>>Any thoughts or suggestions?  All sessions are full screen 3270,
>>so LINEMODE tricks are not going to be useful.

Let's not try to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. ;-)

I think the "right" (whatever that means) answer is a session
manager.  Of course that opens up a whole other bucket of worms.
Real session control is usually done in that type of product though.

/Pete
--
Peter M. Weiss                     | not affiliated with psuvm.psu.edu|psuvm
31 Shields Bldg -- Penn State Univ.| "Connectivity is more than a Connection"
University Park, PA USA 16802-1202 | E. Michael Staman, _The Circuit_, Apr 92
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibmtcp-l
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:16:08 CDT
From:         Rick Troth <TROTH@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU>
Subject:      NULLsocket (for DIAL VTAM mod)

Hi,

        I'm trying to build  TCPIP MODULE  with  1)  the BTI driver,
and  2)  the DIAL VTAM mod.   The BTI driver went in without a hitch,
but now that I'm trying to add the DIAL VTAM mod I'm having to compile
TNSTMAS  (among others).   This is a pain.   VS Pascal complains that
NULLsocket type is  "incorrect or incompatible within context"  around
line 192, 193,  in declaring NULLstateARRAYelement.

        The lines in question aren't even touched by the  TTU DIAL VTAM
mod  change files.   What gives?   Where is  NULLsocket  defined?

Rick Troth <TROTH@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU>, Rice University, I/S VM Systems Support
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4beta PL2]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Length: 1075
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibmtcp-l
Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 13:10:21 CDT
From:         Cleve Graves <cvg@DBAIX.OC.COM>
Subject:      Re: ptfs and such via ftp
X-To:         NELSON@msu.edu
X-cc:         IBMTCP-L@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU
              92 01:52:34 pm

This is what we have been planning, the use of a commercial net connection.
The question I have is what happens if I'm commercial net attached and someone
with a NSFNET attach ftp's a fix to their location to use in their for-profit
commercial systems?  Have we been bad citizens in the Internet community?

Cleve

According to Doug Nelson
>
>Cleve Graves writes:
>>I thought this was an improper commercial use of the Internet?  We had talked
>>of doing this often and concluded that it wasn't proper.  Is it OK to do this
>>sort of thing?
>
>Lee Varian summed up the case for NSFNET use; it's worth pointing out
>that the Internet isn't just the NSFNET and its regionals any more.  If
>the provider and the requester were both attached to commercial Internet
>providers, this would be perfectly legit.
>
>Doug Nelson
>Michigan State University
>


--
Thanks,                                 internet-mail id cvg@oc.com
Cleve Graves
Technical Marketing
OpenConnect Systems, Inc.
2033 Chennault Dr.
Carrollton, Texas 75006  (Dallas)      (214) 308-0416   FAX (214) 490-4052
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibmtcp-l
Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 13:52:34 EDT
Reply-To:     Doug Nelson <NELSON@msu.edu>
From:         Doug Nelson <08071TCP@MSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: ptfs and such via ftp
X-To:         Cleve Graves <cvg@DBAIX.OC.COM>
X-cc:         IBMTCP-L <IBMTCP-L@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>

Cleve Graves writes:
>I thought this was an improper commercial use of the Internet?  We had talked
>of doing this often and concluded that it wasn't proper.  Is it OK to do this
>sort of thing?

Lee Varian summed up the case for NSFNET use; it's worth pointing out
that the Internet isn't just the NSFNET and its regionals any more.  If
the provider and the requestor were both attached to commercial Internet
providers, this would be perfectly legit.

Doug Nelson
Michigan State University
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU