HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home)
Subject: Re: Parents, Spouses, children
Organization: CompuData Inc.
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 20:48:17 GMT

lawson@acuson.com (Drew Lawson) writes:

>In article <ROOTS-L%92122312433175@VM1.NODAK.EDU> George Waller <HBLADM47@UCONNVM.BITNET> writes:

>>Color me dumb, but what is the software which Tom produces?

>That would be LifeLines, a Sun UNIX based system which he provides
>freely.  There is a LINES-L mailing list for discussing its problems
>and merits.

Now wait a minute. I've never been near a SUN but I'm running LL here at home 
on my Xenix system. Basically LL is written in C and could be ported and run 
on any UNIX platform as long as Tom would have access to it to compile the 
source.

fred
-- 
W. Fred Rump 	office:	   fred@COMPU.COM     'mans feet have grown/so big 
26 Warren St.   home: fred@icdi10.compu.com  that he/forgets his littleness'
Beverly, NJ. 08010                          		Don Marquis 
609-386-6846    bang:uunet!cdin-1!icdi10!fr   
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"roots-l@ndsuvm1.bitnet"
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 11:30:00 EST
Reply-To:     John Wernegreen <NATWERNEGREE@EKU.BITNET>
From:         John Wernegreen <NATWERNEGREE@EKU.BITNET>
Subject:      Gen Society in Denmark?

Does anyone have an address for a genealogical society in Denmark?
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-VMS-To: rootsnetl,A_BOISEN
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Tue, 29 Dec 1992 13:40:00 CDT
Reply-To:     A_BOISEN@MACC.WISC.EDU
From:         A_BOISEN@MACC.WISC.EDU
Subject:      Re: GENEALOG Files: Royalty GEDCOM
Comments: To: ROOTS-L@VM1.NODAK.EDU

>>New Royalty GEDCOM files have been uploaded.  They are available now.
>>This GEDCOM has been updated by Mr. Denis Reid ...

>I suppose this is a question I should take up with Denis Reid, but I'd
>like to see some documentation -- even a Note or two -- on some of the
>claims in this file.

I agree.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 08:32:47 -0800
Reply-To:     Frieda Davison <fdavison@SFSUVAX1.SFSU.EDU>
From:         Frieda Davison <fdavison@SFSUVAX1.SFSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: What's MELVYL? [was: wow! (Re: FirstSearch)]
Comments: To: Matt Caprile <mfc@medoc.aux.apple.com>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list ROOTS-L <ROOTS-L@vm1.nodak.edu>

On Wed, 23 Dec 1992, Matt Caprile wrote:

> In article <1992Dec20.134521.2851@compu.com> fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from
 home)
> writes:
> >Are we saying that MELVYL and SUTRO are synonymous?
>
> I hope not. MELVYL is the computerized index of the holdings of the
> University of Calif, and the Calif State University.

WRONG


> the "logon banner" of MELVYL:
>
>     As of 12/22/92, approximately 7,046,741 titles representing
>     13,687,500 holdings for materials in the University of
>     California libraries and the California State Library.
>

California State Library does NOT mean the California State University
system -- it means the various branches of the state library at Sacramento
of which Sutro is one.  There is no unifying system for the Cal State
campuses.


Frieda Davison
San Francisco State University
Newsgroups: soc.roots
From: tfj@apusapus.demon.co.uk (Trevor Jenkins)
Subject: Term for Bro/Sis-in-law-in-law (or Sis of Sis-in-law)? 
Distribution: world
Organization: Job hunters use Parachute
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 01:16:31 +0000


In article <168C7A7DC.M16146@mwvm.mitre.org> M16146@mwvm.mitre.org writes:

> 
> Is there a genealogy term (proper, generic, or slang) which applies to
> the extended "in-law" family relationships I describe below?
>  
>           Parents X     Parents Y    Parents Z
>               |            |            |
>            ___|___      ___|___      ___|
>           |       |    |       |    |
>         Anne    Beth=Charlie Donna=Eben
>  
>  Anne & Charlie, (Beth & Donna), (Charlie & Eben) are Bro/Sis-in-law.
>  I am searching for a term which describes Anne & Donna, ("sisters of
>  sisters-in-law") and Anne & Eben (sister-in-law-in-law).  I coined the
>  "sis-in-law-in-law" and use it to describe an extended family relation-
>  ship among myself and some dear freinds who do have this extended
>  family tie.

In (English) English we have no such convenient constructs apart from
extended phrases such as Anne being Eben's brother-in-law's wife's sister!
Other European countries have a much more useful practice of eliding words
together in order to make a new and very descriptive noun. In Swedish this
would make Anne's role to be sv\"agerskasyster I think.

The need for these descriptive relationship must be fairly high and I'm
somewhat amazed that there is no common English parlance for them.

Regards, Trevor.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trevor Jenkins                                                Re: "deemed!"
134 Frankland Rd, Croxley Green, Rickmansworth, WD3 3AU, England
email: tfj@apusapus.demon.co.uk                               radio: G6AJG  
phone: +44 (0)923 776436
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 12:41:20 -0500
Reply-To:     Dick Rose <am681@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
From:         Dick Rose <am681@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject:      ROSE
Comments: To: ROOTS-L@VM1.NODAK.EDU

Seeking parents of Herbert B. Rose, born ca. Jan-1856 in Onondaga
Co., NY. Married Bertha Ney ca. 1883 in Fulton, Oswego Co., NY.

Dick Rose..

--
Dick Rose, 4273 Grannis Rd., Fairview Park, OH 44126
Researching: ROSE / NEY / NOACK / KENYON / GREEN / THOMAS
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 08:57:12 PST
Reply-To:     "Wendy S. Reynolds" <wendysue@HOLONET.NET>
From:         "Wendy S. Reynolds" <wendysue@HOLONET.NET>
Subject:      Fraternal Org. Help
Comments: To: roots-l@vm1.nodak.edu

Hi all-

I recently visited the grave of my gg-grandfather for the first time.  On
his headstone was 3 interlocking circles (like links in a chain) and the
initials F, T, L in the middle of the circles.

Anyone know what organization this symbolizes?

Thank you in advance -
Wendy Reynolds
wendysue@holonet.net
From: lincoln@rand.org (Tom Lincoln)
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Re: Parents, Spouses, Children (was: Re: PAF tricks)
Date: 22 Dec 92 14:36:23 GMT
Organization: RAND

In article <1992Dec21.195225.6562@compu.com> fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home) writes:
>ttw@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (thomas.t.wetmore..iv) writes:
>
.... lots of discussion...

>>7.  And finally, mea culpa, as my own software system does not yet provide
>>what I believe to be adequate or even required flexibility for this
>>stuff.

We have seen lots of suggestions about "work arounds" to introduce this or
that.. and they do work in an ad hoc sort of way -- but because a work
around does not anticipate the problem and handle it systematically it
clogs up the system. One often has to develop a new work around to process
a work around... and on it goes. Work arounds are a mjaor disease of data
bases.... which would lead to a long discussion about software in general.

>There needs to be a way of showing the sidelines, the adoptive parents. 

Just because genealogy is so rich in real world properties and challenges,
it is a fine subject for the study of how to manage real world issues by
computer. We find that most applications come up short -- and quickly.

I like the story some years ago in the NY Times about Stephen O, who could
not get his credit rating straightened out.. because US computer systems do
not accept a single letter last name. So various support personnel, to get
by the hang up, would find a way to get him in -- as OO or OH or O'Stephen
(although he was of Korean origin and didn't look Irish {:-) --

He could, of course, change his name to satisfy the computer, but that is
asking a bit much.

If one goes back to the work-arounds... they surely work locally, and
probably cause only a modest amount of difficulty, but if you wish to share
your files with each other or with a common data base (like LDS) then the
lack of conventions introduces long explanations, etc. [Once again, there
is a distinction to be made between conventions and standards, but I won't
enter it here...]

>Sometimes we might forget that this is mainly fun to do. Nothing earthshaking 
>will ever come of it. Our ancestors would not really know us as we would not 
>know them, but we wish to know a little more about them anyway - for the fun 
>of it.


And that is the bottom line....

The best things in life may be free, but many good things cost money...

Happy Hollidays!

Tom
From: Frank.Williams@f356.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Frank Williams)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Trying a new Gen. Software
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 06:09:35 -0500

 DB> In the full feature mode, you could do any thing supported by the
 DB> standard.  i.e. If someone has 2 conflictual birth date, you can have
 DB> them.  If one has 2 names, different parents in a record, etc.,
 DB> you can do it.

        I did not realize the Gedcom standard provided for multiple opinions, 
Denis.  That is a particular frustration with my current software.  I'd find 
value in a two-tiered capability IF we could do something with the multiple  
opinions, once collected.

Season's Greetings,
Frank
From: imer400@indyvax.iupui.edu
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: 1920 cenus question
Date: 30 Dec 92 22:36:23 -0500

What are the column headings for the 1920 census?
Thanks.

Martha Rapp
imer400@indyvax.iupui.edu
From: jshuman@koko.csustan.edu (Jeremy Shuman)
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Using MELVYN
Date: 23 Dec 92 08:18:38 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: CSU Stanislaus

Can someone tell me how to use MELVYN? I would like to be able to do my own
searches, the kind Tom posts so often, but I don't know how to access or use
this system. Thanks in advance.

-- 
     --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
     | I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm  |
     | not sure that you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.|
     |                      Standard Disclaimer                          |
From: lincoln@rand.org (Tom Lincoln)
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Re: Term for Bro/Sis-in-law-in-law (or Sis of Sis-in-law)?
Date: 27 Dec 92 15:13:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: randvax.4115
Organization: RAND

In article <725418991snx@apusapus.demon.co.uk> tfj@apusapus.demon.co.uk (Trevor Jenkins) writes:

>In article <168C7A7DC.M16146@mwvm.mitre.org> M16146@mwvm.mitre.org writes:

>> Is there a genealogy term (proper, generic, or slang) which applies to
>> the extended "in-law" family relationships I describe below?

>In (English) English we have no such convenient constructs apart from
>extended phrases such as Anne being Eben's brother-in-law's wife's sister!
>Other European countries have a much more useful practice of eliding words
>together in order to make a new and very descriptive noun. In Swedish this
>would make Anne's role to be sv\"agerskasyster I think.

People with a slavic background could describe better than I the
numerous family relationships (particularly in old slavic languages,
I believe) that are specifically defined. In a two year stint that I
spent in Yugoslavia many years ago when it was (at least superficially)
a civilized (if communist) country, I was introduced to numerous
such catagories such as "Stari Swat"... who, I believe, was some kind of
uncle's uncle.  These seem to come from a period of extended families
called Zadruga in Serbia and to the East that have very ancient roots, but
no Anglo Saxon equivalent. I would suspect that American Indian languages
has similar designations.

Anyone know more about this?

Tom

    o
   < ' .
   / >
  '  `
Newsgroups: soc.roots
From: eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41)
Subject: Re: another question
Reply-To: eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu
Organization: MIT Lincoln Lab - Group 41
Date: 24 Dec 92 09:59:32

In article <1992Dec23.233607.16857@compu.com> fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home) writes:
>   I think several people may have misunderstood me on this. Am I right in 
>   assuming that there is no correlation to the soundex IGI and the library 
>   records? I know about the locality index but it takes me to different material 
>   than that which is in the IGI. Am I wrong here?

Every time I've used the IGI, it has directed me to a microfilm that
is also listed in the library listings.

>   I have not had an opportunity to use the Locality index on the PC. I've been 
>   using the fiche and it's a bit of a bear as sequencing is not all the 
>   meaningful all the time.

My main trouble with the fiche is knowing what German state some
little village was in a hundred plus years ago.  I usually get it
right on the fifth or sixth guess.  The Locality Index on the PC is
_much_ nicer.  You type in the village name (after telling it you want
to look in "Germany"), and it finds all the villages it knows about
with that name.  Bingo, no more searching around in five or six fiches.

>   So if they have the church records I can assume that these have been entered 
>   into the IGI, correct? How does one know?

No, you may not assume that.  Only a fraction of the church records on
microfilm have been indexed.  Indexing is a multi-step process, the
last of which seems to be the appearance of the results in the IGI.  I
think that there is a symbol (a star?) in the library catalog next to
items which have been or are being indexed.

=Jim
--
=Jim  eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)
From: pmccurdy@alcalde.Corp.Sun.COM (Patrick McCurdy)
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Phonebook Help on Surname VLUGHT
Date: 23 Dec 1992 16:07:45 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: pmccurdy@alcalde.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: alcalde.corp.sun.com



Howdy Rooters,

   I have been trying for quite some time to track down an old
friend (and potential cousin) named Leonard VLUGHT.  We both
went to high scholl in Santa Barbara, and I last heard of
Leonard living in the LA area about two years ago.

   I have tried PhoneFile and a couple of other national databases,
but could only find his brother, Barry.  I called that number in Denver
only to find the number disconnected.

REQUEST FOR HELP:

   Could any of you with a spare moment or two look in your local
phone book(s) for the surname VLUGHT.  I would greatly appreciate 
a quick note, even if you find nothing as that would help me to
rule out certain cities.

   Thanks so much for your help.





Patrick McCurdy			"A man can only drink 30 or 40 glasses of
1155 Weyburn Lane #1		 beer a day, no matter how much money he has."
San Jose, CA  95129				- COL Adolphus Busch
408-446-1499
	
Work:	patrick.mccurdy@corp.sun.com	  
CServe: 76346,2764

Researching:  McCurdy, Murphy, Hartmetz, Hyne, Martin, Routt, Hess,
Prather, Grinage, Atchison, Duckworth, Cooke, Kendall, Honey, Hendrix,
Kennedy, Maguire, McPhilips, etc.
From: fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home)
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Re: another question
Keywords: bavaria ansbach
Date: 23 Dec 92 23:36:07 GMT
Organization: CompuData Inc.

fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home) writes:

>Those who have scrounged thru the IGI indexes know that the LDS has some
>rather broad categories for areas of Germany.
>The problem with alphabetic inquiry is the spelling/soundex problem.
>A name could be stuck underneath thousands of others based upon the soundex
>code. Is there no way to look for anything by city, county or church?

I think several people may have misunderstood me on this. Am I right in 
assuming that there is no correlation to the soundex IGI and the library 
records? I know about the locality index but it takes me to different material 
than that which is in the IGI. Am I wrong here?




>The LDS lists the available records that they have in their library which are
>apparently microfilmed and entered into the IGI.

Here I presume that the IGI is the official genealogy part of their records 
while the other records may or may not have been used as sources for them.

I have not had an opportunity to use the Locality index on the PC. I've been 
using the fiche and it's a bit of a bear as sequencing is not all the 
meaningful all the time.

>As examples I give the just mentioned Brenner Surname Index which may not have
>much function in the IGI, but Churches from 1700-1907 would.

So if they have the church records I can assume that these have been entered 
into the IGI, correct? How does one know?

fred



-- 
W. Fred Rump 	office:	   fred@COMPU.COM     'mans feet have grown/so big 
26 Warren St.   home: fred@icdi10.compu.com  that he/forgets his littleness'
Beverly, NJ. 08010                          		Don Marquis 
609-386-6846    bang:uunet!cdin-1!icdi10!fr
From: DEIS@ZODIAC.BITNET
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Re: IGI (Re: another question)
Date: 3 Jan 93 18:18:00 GMT
Reply-To: DEIS@ZODIAC.BITNET
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: ROOTS-L@NDSUVM1.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"fr@COMPU.COM"
X-VMS-Cc: ROOTS
Comments: To: fr@COMPU.COM, ROOTS-L@NDSUVM1.BITNET

Hi Fred and Rooters

     I don't know if Fred's question has been answered, since I've been
off the system since Christmas Eve.  Basically, he found an interesting
reference in the electronic IGI for Germany and wanted to know what to
do next.

     Old German church books tend to make fascinating reading if you can
decipher the script and deal with German and Latin (often both are
present, mixed).  Fred found a wedding from Ahaus, Westfalen.

     If one looks in the microfiche index to the FHLC (family history
library catalog) on fiche 0055 of the Germany fiches, one can find
several varieties of records from Ahaus, including protestant and
catholic church books and even civil registration.  What Fred should do is to
order films 1044959 (item 3 has older records from "Katholische Kirche
Sankt Marien" in Ahaus) and 1044960, which has birth, death, and wedding
records from 1846-1874 from that church.  If he wants later records he
should order the civil registration records, also listed.  To find the
records look under:

     Germany, Preussen, Westfalen, Ahaus, Church Records.

     Why bother to order the Kirchenbuch when you already have the
wedding date?  Well, you might find the names of the parents, or the
birth of the first child, or twenty years earlier the birth records for
the bride and groom.  And poking around you might find siblings,
cousins, neighbors etc. that you never dreamed were there.  Furthermore
it's a little atypical that the church books don't have a longer run.
Often you can find 100 years or more.

     "Sealing" has something to do with making the marriage eternal in
LDS heaven, but I am no expert on that...

                   Frank    DEIS@ZODIAC.BITNET
From: chamberk@ucs.orst.edu (Kevin Chambers)
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: CHAMBERS family history
Date: 28 Dec 1992 06:46:50 GMT
Organization: University Computing Services - OSU
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucs.orst.edu

I've begun doing research on the CHAMBERS family, and I would like to know 
if anyone is aware of a geneological publication that would encompass the
Chambers line and/or the Shelby County, Indiana area.  If you know of such
a publication, or know where to direct me to find out if there is one, I'd
sure appreciate your letting me know.  Please contact me directly.

Thanks,

Kevin Chambers
chamberk@ucs.orst.edu

Newsgroups: soc.roots
From: hiscrp@nuscc.nus.sg (C R Pennell)
Subject: Re: Libraries
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 03:38:20 GMT

rrw@SUNSET.CSE.NAU.EDU (Bob Wier) writes:
: I was just catching up with my mail after turning in final grades, and
: found the following:
: ---------
: The original post was a sterling example of this: "Please let me take a
: valuable and irreplaceable glass-plate negative out of the library so that
: I can experiment with it."  I get requests every day from people who want
: to photocopy rare books.  Of *course* they will be careful, and there may
: be a 95% probability that the book will be fine.  What do you suggest I
: do about that 5% on the down side?  Just say the hell with it?
: I think the historical society person (surely not a librarian) who let
: the negative go was a fool.
: 
: Charles Ten Brink
: 
: ------------
: 
: Well, gee - I guess that answers any questions I might have about borrowing
: anything from the D'Angelo Law Library :-)

	This is about the silliest remark I have seen in a pretty silly
thread. Beyond it's flippant sarcasm, lies nothing, certainly not an
answer to Mr Brink/ Ten Brink's (which BTW) point. Let's see if we can
spell it out. The unique item concerned is held by a public (in the sense
of it being open to the public) institution. It is there so that members
of teh public - or at least a wider audience than if it was in private
hands - can see it, use it or consult it. What Fred Rump (for it was he)
wnated to do was to take it into his personal possession. If it had been
accidentally lost or broken (it was glass, remember), the unique item
would no longer be unique - it would no longer be. Full stop (or period if
you like). And to answer Tom's point (and Tom is a rational decent sort of
guy, just wrong here, I think) it is NOT the same as highly skilled copyists
reproducing things from the Alexandrian library - or medieval monks
painstakingly copying manuscript for that matter. THEIR modern equivalent
would be the people in Reprographic Services, or whatever it is called in
your library, who are a. responsible to someone and b. are trained in what
they are doing.
	ANd look, while we're on the subject. There are good and bad
librarians and there are good and bad borrowers. It might help if both
sides in this argument remembered that. Librarians might care to read some
of the comments in circ.plus and wonder if they are always rational.

Richard Pennell History NUS.