From: dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska)
Newsgroups: alt.individualism,alt.activism.d
Subject: Re: Environmentalism is not Anti-Individualism
Date: 7 Oct 92 19:04:15 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: VEXCEL Corporation, Boulder CO

In article <1992Oct7.000452.4784@mtek.com> brew@mtek.com writes:
>jym@remarque.berkeley.edu (Jym Dyer) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Sep29.154153.27836@athena.cs.uga.edu> brown@pollux
>>(Daniel Brown) writes:
>
>>> Why was this crossposted to alt.individualism?  Greenpeace,
>>> being an environmentalist group, is not noted for its concern
>>> for individuals (at least not human ones).
>
>>I take exception with your claim, however.
>
>>=o= Environmentalism is not anti-individualist.  I can see how
>>=o= I realize that a good portion of alt.individualism's
>>readership subscribes to a libertarian, objectivist, or some
>
>Jym, I know you're sincere in your beliefs, and sorry if I seem to be
>attacking them, but there are other interpretations that may have some
>validity. True, most green talk has to do with expressing concern about harm
>to individuals, and can thus be read as individualist in that light.
>
>However, I've been following the green movement with great interest for over
>twenty years, and where the "individualist" perspective sort of begins to
>fall to pieces, IMNSHO, is in the area of proposed solutions. I won't beat
>the same dead horse (from some of our previous conversations) too much, but
>it seems clear to me that most of the solution/response profile of greens to
>ecological "problems" seems to focus on devolving more power to government,
>as if that is the only way to "solve" the particular problem. This attitude
>appears to be so pervasive in the environmental movement generally as to
>constitute grounds for a belief that much of the environmental drum-beating
>is yet another way to expand the role of "the state" in our lives. While you
>may not agree, many of us believe that the state is one of the last entities
>in society demonstrating any great concern for the well-being of the
>individual citizen. 

I think you are confusing green with Green.  The traditional environmental
movement (essentially synonomous with green) does look to government
solutions, which is traditional among liberals.  The _G_reen movement,
at least in the US, is for a radical decentralization of government powers
to local jurisdictions.  The central concept to the Green Party USA is
not environment, it is community.  I believe that there are _some_ areas
where state activity is needed.  I also think that many of the things the
state is trying to do today could be done better at a local level.
I don't claim that this view dominates environmental thinking.  Its obvious
that the lobbying of the mainstream organizations fits your complaints
fairly well.  The debate then becomes whether ineffective government
regulation is better than the blind trust in the market exhibited by
Libertarians.  While the Green solution is complex, the exercise of
gevernment power locally gives the individual a much greater voice and
makes the impacts of those decisions more personal, both of which should
help to limit government coercion.
>
>"Government is not reason; it is not eloquence. It is force! 
> Like fire it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
>
>				---  George Washington ---
>
>
>-- 
>_________________________________________________________________
>brew@mtek.com
>MTEK International, Inc.             Throughput Technology Corp.
>Walk the talk.


-- 

		dingo in boulder	(dean@vexcel.com)
Xref: sparky alt.individualism:5762 alt.activism.d:3825 talk.environment:4184