HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: toby@stein.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: Rarities in the British Isles, November 1992
Date: 7 Jan 1993 23:40:03 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu

>   Nowadays, large falcon identification is depressingly complex with the
>recognition of escaped falconer-bred Saker hybrids. Why do they want to create
>such abominations ?
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^
First, such a bird can hardly be considered an "abomination".  Second,
it is not at all clear that sakers and gyrs deserve status as distinct
species.  Third, how do you know the "white gyrs" you "tick" aren't
themselves escapes, as pure gyrs are probably bred or bought from the
U.S. as often as "hybrids"?  Fourth, if you need to demean interspecific 
hybridization (if it applies in this case), please begin with Luther
Burbank.  Pass the potatoes.

>I can only imagine it is to produce the perfect hunting
>machine but it doesn't half make ticking a Gyr in the field difficult - unless
>it's a white one and preferably long-staying !

For falconry purposes in middle and high latitudes, sakers have
nothing to offer over gyrs.  They are lighter in body weight for
their wing area, which may offer some advantage (but probably not)
in ringing flights (which are not common anywhere anymore).  In
the Arabian Gulf states, sakers are much hardier than gyrs.  Both
"species" are well known for their persistence in the chase and
willingness to engage in ground battles with large quarry.  Neither
has as natural a tendency for waiting on above game as a peregrine,
and this can be a handicap for flights at game birds.

Considering that breeding falcons in captivity was initiated by
falconers, and is still conducted almost exclusively by them
and their trainees (at least for large falcons), it is not
surprising that some experimentation in hybridization has taken
place.  I have seen examples of the following crossed with
peregrines: kestrel, merlin, prairie falcon, gyrfalcon.  In the
U.S., such hybrids must be surgically sterilized or imprinted upon 
humans before being flown free.  Even these precautions are probably
more for show than out of any need, as F1 fertility is usually low
and behavioral and ecological mechanisms are the primary barriers
to gene flow in nature.

In the same breath complaining about escaped gyrs/hybrids, you
in the U.K. might thank falconers for reintroducing the
goshawk via releases (intentional and unintentional).

Toby Bradshaw
University of Washington
Seattle
Master Falconer
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: dwilcox@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David J Wilcox)
Subject: Bird data
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:40:04 GMT

I am interested in acquiring some bird census data in digital form.  Does 
anyone know if there is anything is available at an ftp site?

David Wilcox
dwilcox@magnus.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: bousman@xenon.arc.nasa.gov (BILL BOUSMAN)
Subject: Sharp-shinned Merlins and Ruby-crowned Vireos
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr. Mtn Vw CA 94035
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:45:00 GMT

A recent Los Angeles posting describes a raptor at dusk
and the observer asked if it might be a Merlin.  In my
local area Sharp-shinned Hawks are the more common
wintering species and distinguishing between the two
can be quite difficult if the observation is brief or
the observer is unfamiliar with the differences between
the two birds.  The Sharp-shin has a flap-flap-glide
flight style when he's looking around, but when he is
in pursuit he can whiz by just like a Merlin.  My vote
in this case is Sharp-shin because the bird was noted
to have a "long-tail" and sharpies give me that flavor
more than Merlins.

Another central California coast i.d. problem is
distinguishing between Hutton's Kinglets and Ruby-crowned
Vireos ;)  They are similarly sized birds and some of the
conventional wisdom is not of much help in distinguishing
the two, as an example, the kinglet is the more active
bird and does more wing-flicking, but Hutton's will also
wing-flick when stimulated.  Once you are familiar with
the two bill shape helps, but for me the best field marks
are the wing bar pattern and coloration.  Hutton's normally
shows two roughly equal white wing bars although the upper
bar is sometimes covered by breast feathers.  The kinglet,
on the other hand, shows a brighter lower wing bar with
a black patch below it which is really quite different from
Hutton's uniform olive coloration.  Sometimes you just don't
get the look you need to be sure.  However, if you see the
red crown patch (this doesn't often happen) then there is
no problem.  Locally Ruby-crowns are significantly more 
common and widespread, as wintering birds, than are Hutton's
which is resident here and likes its oak forest.

Bill Bousman
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: ka1gt@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (robert.m.atkins)
Subject: Bluebirds in winter; Common in NJ?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: nj
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:22:10 GMT
Keywords: Bluebirds

Since the topic of bluebirds has come up, how common is it to see them
here in NJ in winter? I was out last week and was quite suprised to see
one flying around in the cold, wet weather. I was under the impression that
they were spring/summer visitors here.

Bob Atkins

Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: andrewt@watson.ibm.com (Andrew Taylor)
Subject: Re: BLUEBIRDS, RI, USA
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 03:14:54 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
Keywords: Bluebirds

In article <1iktl4INNrn4@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> drintoul@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (David A Rintoul) writes:
>The simplistic comparison between the cowbird/warbler situation and the
>bluebird/wren situation is misleading, ....

Kirtland's Warbler is only one example, many conservation programs involve
actions which are at least slightly deterimental to other species which we
consider secure.  The subject of some of these programs are, like Eastern
Bluebirds, far less threatened than Kirtland's Wrabler.

>2. House wrens are neotropical migrants whose population status may be
>stable at the present time.  However, given the rate of habitat loss
>in central and south America, it is not altogether unlikely that this
>species could decline over much of its range in the near future.  Why
>does Mr. Taylor think that well-meaning bluebird enthusiasts should be
>allowed to perhaps accelerate this process?

I think these remarks are dubious for two reasons.

If availablity of wintering habitat does limit the House Wren population
then small changes to breeding success seem unlikely to have any effect.
I think its very implausible that the very small changes to overall breeding
success that could result from disturbance of nests in Bluebird boxes
could "accelerate the process".

My Nat. Geo. guide gives House Wren habitat as "brush and shrubs, orchards
and farmyards, urban gardens, parks".  This does not sound like habitat
which is being lost at a great rate.  It sounds like the common result of
forest clearance in the tropics, so House Wren wintering habitat could even
be increasing.  Am I missing something here?

>What if some other well-meaning bluebird enthusiast, say in Maryland, removes
>a Bewick's wren nest that he/she assumes was placed there by a house wren?

A legitimate concern but hardly relevant to much of the area where Eastern
Bluebird boxes are popular.

>3. Simple expedients (such as providing more than one next box) allow
>the simultaneous nesting of both bluebirds and house wrens.

This consumption of extra resources may reduce the number of nesting boxes
supplied to Bluebirds and hence the effectiveness of the recovery program.
If it doesn't fine.

Andrew Taylor
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: andrewt@watson.ibm.com (Andrew Taylor)
Subject: Re: BLUEBIRDS, RI, USA
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1993 21:58:28 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
Keywords: Bluebirds

In article <1ihu56INN3ur@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> drintoul@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (David A Rintoul) writes:
>To my knowledge, no one has ever been prosecuted for removal of wren
>nesting material from their bluebird houses, but, really, that is not
>the point.  Are wrens inherently lesser birds than bluebirds?

Are Brown-headed Cowbirds inherently lesser birds than Kirtland's Warblers?

The Eastern Bluebird has suffered a serious decline which is what at least
some nest box makers are attempting to remedy.  House Wrens have not.
I think its quite reasonable, even if it is illegal, to deter House Wrens from
nesting in these boxes by removing their nesting material.

Andrew Taylor
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: christea@dhhalden.no (CHRISTER ANDR JAKOBSEN)
Subject: Re: A word from a falconry expert
Organization: Ostfold College
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 09:32:08 GMT


>
>Falconry is a "ritualized form of birdwatching", and an opportunity
>to see up close, every day, the spectacle of a hunting raptor.  IMHO,
>the use of hawks and falcons in falconry needs no special justification,
>as long as sustainable populations (wild or captive-bred) of raptors
>are maintained. 

Raptors are definitely some of the most fascinating living creatures there 
is. And I just love to watch them. Unfortunately there aren't that many, 
neither species (ca. 10, not counting owls) nor numbers (sparrowhawks are 
not uncommon), living around in Norway, so it gets even better when you 
first see them. Why can't falconers be satisfied with watching them in their 
actually FREE state they SHOULD be in?
From: toby@stein.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: A word on falconry, from an expert
Date: 11 Jan 1993 15:46:45 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu

In article <1993Jan11.041019.11155@midway.uchicago.edu> r0th@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
[some stuff deleted]
>I would like to pass on a passage from the book "Medical Management of Birds
>of Prey", by Dr. Patrick Redic, DVM.  Dr. Redig is considered the country's
>foremost authority on raptor care, and with his forgiveness I wish to quote
>from this text:
>
>"One of the most meticulously cared-for patients that an avian veterinary
>practitioner is likely to encounter is the trained falcon.  The person
>possessing such a bird has undergone, as required by a uniform nationwide set
>of government regulations, a program of examination and facilities inspection
>that not only insures competency but also dedication to the sport.
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

No government test has ever accomplished this purpose, and doesn't for
falconry.  Is it better than nothing?  Perhaps.


>The 
>raptors utilized have been taken from the wild as nestlings or free-flying
>first-year birds, or more recently, there is an increased number produced
>in breeding projects.  It is against regulations for there to be any monetary
>or other aspects of trade involved in the production and exchange of raptors
>among persons, hence the birds have no inherent commercial worth.

Maybe when the book was written this was so.  Not now.  Captive-bred
native raptors may be sold by licensed breeders (and no doubt zoos,
etc.) to anyone permitted to have a native raptor, including other
falconers.  Prices are all over the place.  Typically, a Harris'
hawk (Parabuteo unicinctus) will cost $200-$700, peregrines $400-
$1500, and gyrs $1500-infinity (Arab falconers).  Except for hybrid
falcons, this about covers the "for sale" market in North American
native raptors.  Other commonly used birds, like goshawks, redtails,
and merlins are cheaper and/or easier to come by from wild stock.
Regulation of non-native, non-listed raptors is zero.  The state-federal
falconry permit system has evolved into an increasingly expensive,
decreasingly useful bureaucratic hassle for falconers.  Regulations
outside the Endangered Species Act are probably unncessary, anyhow,
as has been belatedly recongnized by the Feds, who just recently
allowed redtails held for falconry to be unbanded.

Toby Bradshaw                       |
Department of Biochemistry          |  Will make genetic linkage maps
and College of Forest Resources     |            for food.
University of Washington, Seattle   |
toby@u.washington.edu               |






Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: tony@zoo.toronto.edu (Anthony L. Lang)
Subject: Re: BLUEBIRDS, RI, USA
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:35:42 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article: <1993Jan07.215828.36704@watson.ibm.com>  
 andrewt@watson.ibm.com (Andrew Taylor) writes:

Subject: Re: BLUEBIRDS, RI, USA  

>The Eastern Bluebird has suffered a serious decline which is
>what at least  
>some nest box makers are attempting to remedy.  House Wrens have
>not.  
>I think its quite reasonable, even if it is illegal, to deter
>House Wrens from  
>nesting in these boxes by removing their nesting material.  
>  
>Andrew Taylor  
  
  
This is the conventional wisdom.  Since EASTERN BLUEBIRDS are
meadow/field species, I suspect that this decline was preceded
by a spectacular population increase as the eastern North
American forests were cleared.  They probably nested in old trees
and tree stumps that were used as fence posts.  As these nest
sites were eliminated, the bluebirds probably returned to their
Pre-Columbian population levels.  
-- 

Anthony Lang
Dept. of Zoology, 
University of Toronto
From: Joe.Morlan@f20.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Joe Morlan)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Odd Duck. Anyone help wi
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 93 20:34:00 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:125/20 - SeaHunt BBS, San Francisco CA

     ***** On 01-04-1993, Robert. M. Atkins wrote to All *****

>  Over Xmas a new duck has joined an established group of
>  mallards on a local pond.  It does not seem to correspond
>  to any of the ducks listed in any of my birding books.

The description sounds much like a domestic strain of Mallard to
me.

--Joe Morlan, Albany, CA
Joe.Morlan@f20.n125.z1.fidonet.org.

--  
Joe Morlan
UUCP: amdahl.com!kennel!125!20!Joe.Morlan
INTERNET: Joe.Morlan@f20.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Joe Morlan only."
From: mikael@scout.utexas.edu (Mikael Behrens)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Sanderlings on the jetty
Date: 12 Jan 93 05:34:06 GMT
Reply-To: mbehrens@cs.utexas.edu
Distribution: usa

I found myself in Port Aransas, Texas this weekend, and I thought I'd  
share some of my bird sightings there with the readers of rec.birds.

From the beach and the nearby jetty, I saw a meager sampling of the usual  
species (it was below 50 degrees):  Laughing gull, Herring gull,  
Ring-billed gull, Royal Tern, Forester's Tern, Willet, Snowy Egret, Great  
Blue Heron, Double-crested Cormorant, and Brown Pelican.

On the jetty, I also saw pretty big groups of what I THINK were  
Sanderlings flitting around.  They were keeping to low, algae-covered  
rocks and scouring them for food.  They'd jump and fly from rock to rock  
as the surf periodically covered and uncovered them.  With them were a few  
Ruddy Turnstones.  These were easy to identify.  Is this known behavior  
for Sanderlings?

In more marshy habitat I saw Northern Pintail, Snowy Egret, Great Egret,  
Great Blue Heron, Little Blue Heron, White Ibis, White-faced Ibis,  
American Avocet, White Pelican, Yellowlegs (I can't distinguish greater  
and lesser), Forester's Tern, belted Kingfisher, and American Coots out  
the wazzoo!

On the way back there were plenty of Red-tailed Hawks, American Kestrels,  
and Loggerhead Shrikes on the power lines.

Nothing very exceptional, but it's been a while since I've seen shorebirds  
and I was excited.

--
Mikael Behrens              mbehrens@cs.utexas.edu (NeXTmail OK)
Computer Science student    University of Texas at Austin
From: Joe.Morlan@f20.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Joe Morlan)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: Status of "Oregon" J
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 93 12:23:00 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:125/20 - SeaHunt BBS, San Francisco CA

       ***** On 01-04-1993, Ed Matthews wrote to All *****

EM> Never saw your email, but that doesn't surprise me.  I've
EM> tried to send you email and it seems to get lost between
EM> here and Fidoland.

the rbbsnet gateway is gone, but the fidonet address below should
work now.

EM> If this is not sufficient detail to locate the fire tower
EM> (I'm sure it has a name, but I don't know it), let me know
EM> and I'll dig through some maps.

If you know the name of the nearest town (and county) and/or the
name of the tower, it would be very helpful.

Many thanks.

--Joe Morlan, Albany, CA
Joe.Morlan@f20.n125.z1.fidonet.org.

--  
Joe Morlan
UUCP: amdahl.com!kennel!125!20!Joe.Morlan
INTERNET: Joe.Morlan@f20.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Joe Morlan only."
From: tonyz@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Tony Zugates)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 21:51:06 GMT
Subject: Re: Dull birds here....
Organization: the HP Mtn.View Resp. Cntr.
Newsgroups: rec.birds

Sometimes reality differs from perceptions...

The reality is I'm not seeing these "colorful birds"... whether
at the park, beach, mountains, desert or alley way etc. sir.

The reality is, back in Penn. I didnt even have to leave the house!


Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: tony@zoo.toronto.edu (Anthony L. Lang)
Subject: Re: Townsend's Solitaire in Toronto
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:43:20 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In arcicle: <648.2B4F9D47@kennel.FIDONET.ORG>  
 Joe.Morlan@f20.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Joe Morlan) writes:

  
>     ***** On 01-08-1993, Anthony L. lang wrote to All *****  
>  
>ALL> The Toronto Christmas Bird Census produced few unusual  
>ALL> birds.  These were mostly late birds, including a VEERY  
>ALL> (Catharus sp?).  
>  
>That is fantastic!!!  
>Who saw that?  

I believe George Fairfield of Toronto first saw it, but dozens
of people have seen it (myself included) so far.

>Was the bird photographed?  

I don't know.

>Is it still around??  

It was last seen on Jan. 10. 

>That is probably the most unbelievable record I've ever heard
>of.  

There is a March, 1962 specimen from Pt. Pelee; a photo record
from Dec. 1975 at Toronto; photo records of one bird from winter
1986/87 at Mississauga (30 km w. of Toronto), and 6 sight records
from Point Pelee to Toronto up to the late 1970s and 8 
more reports in the 1980s.  There are also a few reports
from northern and northwestern Ontario.

-- 

Anthony Lang
Dept. of Zoology, 
University of Toronto
From: adams@pyramid.unr.edu (Brian Adams)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Kinglet vs Vireo
Date: 8 Jan 93 04:49:21 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Nevada, Reno  Department of Computer Science

The original post specifically mentioned the reddish crown patch. Such
a bird could not be a Hutton's Vireo, as Hutton's has no such colored
crown. Also, the fine size distinctions bandied about are highly
unreliable when dealing with such small, relatively active birds as
Kinglets and Vireos. I agree with the original poster that it was
a Ruby Crowned Kinglet.

Incidently, I also made my first Ruby Crowned Kinglet in my backyard
last April. He was very active, the light was bad, and I had the devil
of a time glassing him, but for a couple of seconds he sat still and
raised his scarlet patch. It took my breath away! The patch glowed like
a road flare!
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: rice@mirage.rtp.dg.com (Brian Rice)
Subject: Oops
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 23:27:52 GMT
Distribution: na
Reply-To: rice@dg-rtp.dg.com (Brian Rice)
Organization: Data General Corporation, RTP, NC.
Followup-To: rec.birds

Like a moron, I wrote:

> I just posted a digitized sound sample of a birdsong to the newsgroup 
> alt.binaries.pictures.misc with subject "Unknown bird .WAV".

Of course, I meant alt.binaries.sounds.misc.

--
Brian Rice   rice@dg-rtp.dg.com   +1 919 248 6328
DG/UX Software Quality Engineering
Data General Corp., Research Triangle Park, North Carolina    
"If you don't know how to pronounce a word, say it loud!" --William Strunk
From: sandee@Think.COM (Daan Sandee)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: Bird Tapes
Date: 8 Jan 1993 23:57:22 GMT
Organization: TMC
NNTP-Posting-Host: tremor.quake.think.com

In article <1993Jan8.222559.11949@head-cfa.harvard.edu>, willner@head-cfa.harvard.edu (Steve Willner) writes:
|> 
|> Some time ago, the net discussed two sources of taped bird songs.
|> One was alleged to be considerably better than the other because
|> songs were organized by sound, not by taxonomy, and the bird was
|> identified after, not before, the song.  Was "Birding by Ear" from
|> the Peterson Field Guide series the good one or the bad one?  And if
|> the bad one, what was the good one?

You are confused. The Peterson tapes "Field Guide to Bird Songs of
Eastern and Central (or Western) North America" are organized taxonomically.
"Birding by Ear" (East and West) is by Walton and Lawson and is organized
by sound. Check the ABA catalog.

Daan Sandee                                           sandee@think.com
Thinking Machines Corporation
1010 El Camino Real, Suite 310
Menlo Park, CA 94025                                  (415) 329-9300
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: srh3@Ra.MsState.Edu (Steven R. Hollis)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: A word from a falconry expert
Date: 12 Jan 93 14:26:00 GMT
Organization: Mississippi State University


     If you want to take that line of argument, why
can't someone be happy going out and watching coyotes
instead of having a dog?  I wonder if ancient man
got any trouble from his neighbor for taming the
dog tens of thousands of years ago.

Steve

--
============================================================================
Steve Hollis---Your friendly          |  "What for you say you monkey, when
neighborhood zoology major/lit minor  |   you got little powder puff tail
srh3@ra.msstate.edu                   |   like rabbit----RABBIT?"
From: sjh@cs.brown.edu (suzi howe)
Subject: BLUEBIRDS, RI, USA
Keywords: Bluebirds
Organization: Brown Computer Science Dept.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:37:44 GMT

I saw bluebirds for the first time last year and decided to put up two nesting
boxes.  Within a day of installation, we had a pair checking things out!  We were
delighted when they started to nest a couple of weeks later.  Throughout the
summer we were entertained by the 'bluebird wars' -- wrens and flycatchers would
try and take over their nesting box, divebombing in pairs as the blues perched
passively  and waited.  They had two babies which were delightful to watch; the
male bird took care of them, we didn't see the female much during their rearing. 
Then one day, the youngsters were gone and a second family started.  In between,
a wren tried to take over the nesting box, but we removed the telltale twigs
which stuck out of the entrance.  We didn't see any babies from the second
mating, and at the end of August, the blues were gone.  We missed them SO
much--their gentle song, splashings and preenings in the birdbath, sitting with
the babies on the pool fence while we swam laps, and their constant presence in
favorite places--mostly high dead branches.  When we cleaned out the nesting box
in early fall, we found a single unhatched egg--no offspring the 2nd time. 

I hope New Englanders who read this posting will consider putting up bluebird
boxes--isn't it amazing how they know they're just for them?!  :)       
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: hammond@tellabs.com (Mark Hammond)
Subject: Who was that hawk owner ?
Keywords: please help me find this person.
Organization: Tellabs, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 14:54:48 GMT



I was driving through Fermi Lab (Batavia Il.) Saturday morning (Jan 2nd) 
and I met a woman who had an immature red tail hawk. She had trapped it in 
St. Charles and has been keeping it (and given the knowledge and the way 
she talked) and others. She said that she was liscensed by the State
(and possibly federal) government to do this. I was curious if anyone may 
know who this person was ? I was so interested in seeing the hawk that I 
didn't ask her name. I guess she must live in the fox valley area. Anyone 
have any suggestions on how I might find out who this person is? 
e-mail responses.

				Thank You,
				Mark Hammond.
Newsgroups: rec.birds