HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eric@cs.ruu.nl (Eric Nieuwland)
Subject: Check engine presence (was Re: El Al 747 Crash in Amsterdam)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:14:24 GMT
Organization: SERC/RUU
Followup-To: sci.aeronautics

casper@fwi.uva.nl (Casper H.S. Dik) wrote:
> 
> eric@cs.ruu.nl (Eric Nieuwland) writes:
> >A 747 pilot said they know when an engine is on fire and when it has
> >reduces thrust, but they don't know if the engine is at all there!
> >It seems to me that this knowledge would greatly influence decisions
> >to be made in emergency situations. It wouldn't be too hard to detect
> >loss of an engine either. So why isn't it done?
> 
> Things like this are being done. Plans are to fit 'planes with
> video cameras that give a few on most of the 'plane. One camera in
> the top of the tail gives most of the view you need. Some thought has
> to go in the disabling of the camera in the case of a hijack.
> You wouldn't want the hijackers to have a good few of surroundings
> when the plane is on the ground.
> 
> Casper

Checking for the presence of an engine is much simpler. Just make a
single electric wire loop through the engine mount. Apply a very low
current, like measuring the wire's resistance. If the engine is lost,
the wire would break and the resistance would be quite different.

--eric
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Aurora tidbit
From: f0408@desire.wright.edu
Date: 12 Oct 92 11:12:39 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

Aurora fans,

	I thought you might be interested in this tid-bit which didn't appear
in AVWeek but has a very credible source.

	Two weeks ago, Ben Rich (25 year president of Lockheed Skunkworks,
recently retired) gave a great lecture at the USAF Museum which I was fortunate
enough to attend.  He made several remarks that added to the Aurora mystery.
I should note however that his only responses to direct questions about
'Aurora' (which well-meaning audience members were persistent enough to repeat
several times) was a joking "Are you cleared for Aurora?"

	He did mention, however, that the Skunkworks was currently very busy at
work on programs he could not discuss for fear of losing his security
clearance.  Now, the Skunkworks does have some modification work going on the
U-2's does it not?  (Additionally, he added that the "TR-1" designation has
been deleted and officially restored to U-2 which is really what the aircraft
was all along.)  Anyway, he did remark on the recent "contrails" story in which 
unusual contrails have been spotted around the country.  (This story did appear
in AVWeek and circulated to many newspapers.)  He mentioned that Lockheed
solved the whole contrail problem years ago and that if they were building a
new recon aircraft, it wouldn't leave contrails of any sort.  He cited that the
F-117 didn't leave any contrails, why should the Aurora?

	If anyone is interested, I'll try to get a transcript of the lecture
(or of the more interesting portions of the two hours) from the USAF Museum.


Bob Mack, Dayton, Ohio
From: wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Bruce Watson)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: El Al 747 Crash in Amsterdam
Date: 7 Oct 92 18:08:13 GMT
Organization: Alpha Science Computer Network, Denver, Co.

+A terrorist attack is very unlikely in this case, especially since
+atleast one similar incident has happened with exactly the same
+type of aircraft (a 747-200F) of approx. the same age (13 years).
+
+Casper

Is the 'F' designation the cargo version? 
For El Al, I have:
4 -258B's
2 -258C's
1 -124F
1 -258F

-- 
Bruce Watson (wats@scicom)  Tumbra, Zorkovick; Sparkula zoom krackadomando.  
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: casper@fwi.uva.nl (Casper H.S. Dik)
Subject: Re: El Al 747 Crash in Amsterdam
Organization: FWI, University of Amsterdam
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 10:48:50 GMT

wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Bruce Watson) writes:

>Is the 'F' designation the cargo version? 
>For El Al, I have:
>4 -258B's
>2 -258C's
>1 -124F
>1 -258F

F for Freight.

Casper
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: kannan91@iastate.edu (Kannan Srinivasan)
Subject: Info required-pressure distribution on wing, winglets
Keywords: Pressure distribution, winglets
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:51:53 GMT

Dear Readers,

Would it be possible for any of you to mail references to literature
which discusses issues related to the following:

1. Pressure distribution across wing cross-sections and wing-spans
   in the presence of wing pylons, flap-tracks etc.
2. The physics behind winglets and wingtip fences and how they 
   contribute to improvement of fuel-consumption.

Please pardon me if these are FAQs. My e-mail address is:

			kannan91@iastate.edu
Thanks,
Kannan.
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Neal Howard)
Subject: Re: Inflatable aircraft
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 03:24:27 GMT
Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX

In article <1992Oct6.041848.22747@nuscc.nus.sg> swkmorri@nuscc.nus.sg (Perry Morrison (Dr)) writes:
>
>When lying on my inflatable bed, I've often wondered if it would be
>possible to create an inflatable wing (with appropriate stiffeners for
>support). I had in mind something like a square shaped wing with a
>proper airfoil and decent wingspan. It would also require a short rear
>structure to control pitch and some ailerons. I would see a number of options:
>
{rest of stuff deleted}
>
>Comments?
>
>Perry Morrison

Goodyear made an inflatable plane to be tested by the military decades ago.
It came packed in a small wooden crate and a tank of compressed air with
which to inflate it. I think it also had an engine driven air pump which
also could be used to inflate it. It's featured in an "unusual planes"
episode of "Wings" (Discovery cable channel). This one-man plane never
made it into production.

-- 
=============================================================================
Neal Howard (neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org)        CompuTrac, Inc. (Richardson,TX)
DoD #686   '91 XLH-1200      '70 Kawasaki G4-100cc    '69 Cougar XR7-GT390
	   Ensoniq VFX-SD    Kramer Pacer guitar      '70 429CJ(needs a home)
"how often you get much more drunk than you ought to on a Friday night...
...about once a week" -  Tom Yates
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: gcr8829@aw2.fsl.ca.boeing.com (Gustav C. Rettke)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: How can the F-117 fly...
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:29:30 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: fsl

From article <92272.102248AERE7114@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca>, by AERE7114@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca:
> I'm not sure of the numbers, but the F-117 is nicknamed the "Wobbly Goblin"
> 
> Check six.
> Paul

Hmmm.  Weren't there prototype jets called Goblins back in the fifties.  These
were 'parasite' escort fighters for the B-36.  They had no landing gear, but
rather were carried by the mother ship till escort was needed then launched.
When escort duties were complete, the tiny jets would be recaptured by the 
mother ship for the return trip.

This system gave way to inflight refueling, but it did get at least to the 
flight test phase.  Maybe this new nickname is somehow linked to that curious
program.  Maybe the new goblin has qualities similar to the old (the old was
somewhere in the F-80's I believe.)

Just a Little Aviation Footnote,

Gus Rettke
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: eric@cs.ruu.nl (Eric Nieuwland)
Subject: Re: El Al 747 Crash in Amsterdam
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 08:43:50 GMT
Organization: SERC/RUU
Followup-To: sci.aeronautics

In article <1992Oct5.151516.320@et.tudelft.nl>, mvdl@et.tudelft.nl wrote:
> > The pilot reported a fire in two engines (I think they said on the right)
> > ten minutes after the plane left Schiphol Amsterdam Airport. He wanted to
> > return to the airport but failed. Eyewitnesses say the plane made one or
> > two turns before it went down and crashed. During these turns it lost the
> > burned engines. Some claim to have seen an explosion, possibly responsible
> > for the loss of the engines.
> 
> Many versions about this go around... it could also be a wing tip hitting
> something, causing the plane to crash into the ground. The plane made only one
> turn, tried to loose fuel (some say the pilot also dropped extra fueltanks,
> whatever that may be), and headed back to schiphol as quickly as it could.

Could be, could be not. I know the place where it happened quite well and
the
only things it could have hit would be another tall building and no such
hit
was reported. The metro station which some say was also hit is much lower
than
the top of the destroyed building. Furthermore, eyewitnesses claim the
explosion
was *before* they saw the plane at "a strange angle".

> It probably was not a terrorist attack. They almost never occur (I do not know
> of any) at cargo-flights. Why would you want to bring down a plane stuffed with
> flowers ?
True! But who would want to attack a schoolbus with children in it?

--eric
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: woody@castle.ed.ac.uk (I Woodrow)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: Aplogy to Robert Dorsett & More on El Al Disaster
Date: 15 Oct 92 11:05:07 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

arw4@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Aaron R Wininger) writes:

>(Cant remember the term for hunting w/ hawks)

I believe the term is simply,     hawking.



-- 
W@@DY_______________________________________________________________________
 /Ian Woodrow, Computing Service, Uni of Glasgow, GLASGOW G12 8QQ, Scotland \
*  <Dog 'n' Bone:  041-330-4800         | e-mail: woody@udcf.gla.ac.uk>      *
 \__________ FAX:__041-330-4808_____________________________________________/
From: B249888@vmtecqro.qro.itesm.mx (MANUEL EDUARDO AYALA GARCIA)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Guide landing
Date: 12 Oct 92 21:26:06 GMT
Organization: Instituto Tecnologico de Monterrey, Campus Queretaro


 
Any body, can explainme, how is the guide landing trough the bohr
fuction?
 
Manuel E. Ayala G.               B249888@vmtecqro.qro.itesm.mx
Queretaro Qro. Mexico            B249888@vmtecqro
 
The important isn't how a plane fly.
The important is that is fly.
 
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: cid@athena.mit.edu (Derek H Cedillo)
Subject: Re: Sources, and the applicability of the scientific method (747 crash)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 14:51:05 GMT

	Wait a minute.  I just want to clear one thing up.  I did not
claim that the failure of the pins CAUSED the crash.  That is 
not what I am saying at all.  I am saying that there was definate
engine trouble.  And whatever that trouble bay have been,
it was quite serious.  Now, I believe that the pins may have
failed as a result of the trouble.  But I am not saying it as
fact.  I just offered my opinion.  I asked some
legitimate questions about control systems and what not.

	I may not be an expert, I just have a short summerly intern
in GEAE and that is just in bearings and lube systems. 
You gotta start somewhere, and I am here to learn.
But, I dont think any of my claims are rediculous.
And I did not base my Claims on what a UPI writer said,
but on what others said as Quoted by UPI.  UPI should
quote accurately.  I'll admit that I may have gotten
off of science for a little while, but I am still
here to discuss scenarios.  And there is one thing that really
gets me mad, and that is incompetent engineering (Im not
saying this abou boeing) and when Werner said that,
It got me mad.  

	Anyhow, I still am looking for information
on the Control Systems in regards to engine trouble and Vib
data.   Anybody have some info?

Derek H Cedillo
Xref: sparky sci.aeronautics:2236 sci.astro:10509 sci.bio:3493 sci.edu:1080
From: njzy@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (T. Joseph Lazio, Cornell University)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics,sci.astro,sci.bio,sci.edu
Subject: Re: TEEN TALK BARBIE
Date: 8 Oct 92 09:38:10 EDT
Distribution: sci
Organization: Cornell University

In article <Bvow66.D4B@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>,
kinsler@newton.physics.uq.oz.au (Paul Kinsler) writes: 
> In article <Bvnoyt.L53@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
> |> In article <1992Oct5.134133.5876@relay.nswc.navy.mil> bwallet@apssgi.nswc.navy.mil (Brad Wallet) writes:
> |> >In article <1992Oct2.200215.7008@cs.ucla.edu>, quam@humpback.cs.ucla.edu (David Quam) writes:
> |> >|> >In <9210020414.AA23034@quaestor> carasso@inference.com writes:
> |> 
> |> >|> >% Just heard that Mattel Toys has just made a talking Barbie that has
> |> >|> >% four canned messages it speaks.  One of the messages is "Math classes
> |> >|> >% are hard."  The other messages are supposed to pertain to hair and
> |> >|> >% shopping...
> |> >|> >% Yet another way to drive the M-F ratio in the sciences to even worse levels...
> |> >|> >% The official name of the product is "Teen Talk Barbie".
> 
> |> >|> Don't be too hasty now!  The doll also says "I'm studying to be a
> |> >|> doctor".
> |> 
> |> >Who can't add?
> |> 
> |> THIS is not too serious; many people, including many mathematicians, are
> |> not that great at arithmetic.  The more serious problem is 
> |> 
> |> 	Who has no idea of when to add.
> 
> At least where I come from, doctors have to do physics as part of 
> their training. And you can't do physics without maths. So even
> if our hypothetical and extremely suggestible barbie owner does 
> decide to become a doctor, she will have difficulty making the grade.

 Let's not forget about the SAT/ACT which are required for 
 entrance to colleges and the MCATs which are required for 
 entrance to medical school.

-- 
 T. Joseph Lazio                | Why relativity? and Why  
 514 Space Sciences             | turbulence?  I really believe   
 Ithaca, NY  14853-6801         | [God] will have an answer for the
 (607) 255-6420                 | first [question].
 lazio@astrosun.tn.cornell.edu  |   -- W. Heisenberg, on his death bed
ICBM:                           |
 42 deg. 20' 08" N              |              STOP RAPE
 76 deg. 28' 48" W              |
From: rlehardy@lonestar.utsa.edu (Robert A. Lehardy)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: Re: Most evil looking....
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:48:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: ringer.1992Oct13.144859.6729
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio

I'd have to agree.  Got to see a Buff during an exercise at White
Sands in 1986 - low level run that flew right over our CP - it
was awesome!  Blew down all of our camo nets and just impressed
the hell out of us.  Don't know how high he actually was but it
seemed close enough to touch!
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: rfedkiw@redwood.math.ucla.edu (Ronald Fedkiw)
Subject: Chemically Reacting Air
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 00:22:07 GMT

I'm trying to model the flow of high temperature air.......
I need to calculate the heat of formation of: N2 O2 N O NO NO+ e-
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Anyone know what to do ??? References ????
--
Ron Fedkiw (rfedkiw@joshua.math.ucla.edu)

A plan is made by someone who is sitting and thinking ...
while others are doing.
From: mgeorgy@vmsclst1.sc.csupomona.edu
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Processors in F-16 Fly-By-Wire????
Date: 9 Oct 92 21:08:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: vmsclst1.1992Oct9.140846.1
Organization: Computer Science Computational Systems
Nntp-Posting-User: mgeorgy

Anyone have any idea how many processors are used in the fly-by-wire system of
the F-16???


Thanx,
Matt Georgy
California State Polytechnic University, Pomona  --  Computer Science
From: woody@castle.ed.ac.uk (I Woodrow)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: Most evil looking....
Date: 15 Oct 92 11:02:01 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

rlehardy@lonestar.utsa.edu (Robert A. Lehardy) writes:

>I'd have to agree.  Got to see a Buff during an exercise at White
>Sands in 1986 - low level run that flew right over our CP - it
>was awesome!  Blew down all of our camo nets and just impressed
>the hell out of us.  Don't know how high he actually was but it
>seemed close enough to touch!

I saw 2 BUFFs making an attack on Kinloss (Scotland) - one was 5 miles behind
the other - both spewing black smoke like BUFFs do.  I suppose they would be 
quite evil if they were screaming toward you loaded with nukes but I reckon
the sight of a fully armed Mil 24 out to get you is pretty damned evil.
Especially head on and tilted slightly nose-down.
That nose (complete with rotating cannon) is something else!  And the thing
about a Hind is that they can hover & go nice and slow and do things that a
BUFF can't do.  

I haven't seen any GIFs of Hinds, so I must look out some of my photos and
scan one in; then post it.

Oh, and just to throw this one in - I've also seen the Hind from a different
angle.  I got a flight in one in Czechoslovakia.  NEAT!


-- 
W@@DY_______________________________________________________________________
 /Ian Woodrow, Computing Service, Uni of Glasgow, GLASGOW G12 8QQ, Scotland \
*  <Dog 'n' Bone:  041-330-4800         | e-mail: woody@udcf.gla.ac.uk>      *
 \__________ FAX:__041-330-4808_____________________________________________/
From: ai686@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ishaq Syed)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: COST
Date: 12 Oct 1992 17:52:19 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


How much dose iut cost to take flying lessons? What is the cheapest place 
to take lessons in the Cleveland Ohio area.  Please respond as soon as possible.

				Ishaq
-- 
           *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*
           *_           ISHAQ SYED                            _*
           *_           E-MAIL:ai686@cleveland.freenet.edu    _*
           *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*
From: ajcueva@pbhyb.PacBell.COM (Al Cuevas)
Subject: Re: 747 dimensions and weights: here they are.
Organization: Pacific * Bell
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:35:51 GMT
Summary: u turns

In article <16293@borg.cs.unc.edu>, jge@ceti.cs.unc.edu (John Eyles) writes:
> In article <1992Oct9.100310.21543@cactus.org> rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett) writes:
> >
> >Dimensions:
> >
> >-400 (Tentative; data's old)
> >----------------------------
> >
> >158'0" 	Turn Radius
> 
> Wow, I had no idea the 747 was so manouverable.
> 
	One thing I hadn't considered until recently was that all aircraft
	have to be able to turn around on a 200' wide runway.  There are
	many places that have a long enough runway for turbine powered
	aircraft to land but no parallel taxiway.

	Having been used to major U.S. airports I was surprised when
	we landed in St. Maartin last year on an AA DC-10 and they
	turned around on the runway and taxied back to the ramp.

	During busy times, the little guys do multiple base legs until
	the runway is clear before they proceed in to land.

Al Cuevas
Pac Bell
510-823-1498
From: wb8foz@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (David Lesher)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: Re: Most evil looking....
Date: 14 Oct 1992 01:46:28 GMT
Organization: NRK Clinic for habitual NetNews abusers - Beltway Annex
Reply-To: wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (David Lesher)
NNTP-Posting-Host: skybridge.scl.cwru.edu

I've never seen a BUFF-by, but having been in the tower once when a U-2
went past at about tower-height, I have to say that the U-2 is a really
ugly-SOUNDING beast.  My impression was that of the sound footage I've
heard of V1 flights.
--
A host is a host from coast to coast..wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
From: doi@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Daniel Kuan Li Oi)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: Inflatable aircraft
Date: 9 Oct 1992 11:50:34 GMT
Organization: The University of Westrn Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: tartarus.uwa.edu.au

	Apart from the Goodyear aicraft, I am sure I saw an article on
an inflatable Human Powered Aircraft somewhere.  It looked like a giant
long air mattress.  It was filled with air but I suppose it could have
been filled with Helium in order to give some measure of bouyancy.

					Daniel Oi
					University of Western Australia
From: gak@n5abi.hou.tx.us (Gene A. Kennedy)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: Aurora tidbit
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 20:29:20 CDT
Organization: Ham Radio Operator, Houston Tex.

f0408@desire.wright.edu writes:

> 	He did mention, however, that the Skunkworks was currently very busy at
> work on programs he could not discuss for fear of losing his security
> clearance.  Now, the Skunkworks does have some modification work going on the
> U-2's does it not?  (Additionally, he added that the "TR-1" designation has
> been deleted and officially restored to U-2 which is really what the aircraft
> was all along.)  Anyway, he did remark on the recent "contrails" story in whi
> unusual contrails have been spotted around the country.  (This story did appe
> in AVWeek and circulated to many newspapers.)  He mentioned that Lockheed
> solved the whole contrail problem years ago and that if they were building a
> new recon aircraft, it wouldn't leave contrails of any sort.  He cited that t
> F-117 didn't leave any contrails, why should the Aurora?
> 
 Because the Aurora's propulsion system must be radically 
different and therefore may not be subject to the same "fix" :-)
While I'am sure his talk was very interesting, the contrail 
comment sure sounds like a common tactic used to avoid discussing 
classified material, give an answer that really sounds good, but 
actually has nothing to do with the subject :-) I seem to recall 
using this tactic myself many years ago :-)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
          Gene Kennedy - Ham Radio Operator, N5ABI - 
                      gak@n5abi.hou.tx.us
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics