From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: MEQ #17: Ben-Gurion on Israeli expansi
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:11:27 GMT

In <1dnnh0INNcie@manuel.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:

>In article 25720@trl.oz.au, faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris) writes:
>>In article <1dn0i5INNb29@manuel.anu.edu.au>, bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:
> 
>>|> In article 18155@trl.oz.au, faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris) writes:
>>|> >In article <1dk9h2INNnqm@manuel.anu.edu.au>, bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:

>>|> >|>       MEQ #17.  Teveth on Ben-Gurion's vision of the future of Israel, 1937.
>>|> [...]

>>|> >Did Ben-Gurion have an idea of where the Jewish state's borders should be?.

>>|> I don't have a clear idea of this.  I think it varied during his life,
>>|> but I don't know of any instance where he called for an empire from the
>>|> Nile to the Euphrates as a few Zionists did.  Certainly he wanted all
>>|> of what was called Palestine in 1937 (now Israel+WB+Gaza) but probably
>>|> also Lebanon up to the Litani, the Golan, and parts of Jordan. 

>>Thus if the peace process comes to an end (which it will), Israel will annex
>>south Lebanon. Then 2/3 of the Israeli expansion goal beyond the borders of 
>>Palestine would have been realised. This leaves the east bank of the Jordan
>>river for future conquest.

>I don't think that follows.  Ben-Gurion is not the boss any more, nor is
>Shamir (whose politics was closer to BG's than most people will admit;
>this comment will get me flamed, ho ho :=).  One can speculate that 
>permanent annexation of part of south Lebanon was one of the long-term 
>aims of the 1982 war, but (a) there's no solid direct evidence of that, 
>and (b) Israel now knows that nothing short of the most draconian measures 
>could "pacify" the south to the extent where settlement was possible.
>My bet is that annexation is not currently considered to be a realistic
>option.  I just wish Israel would hurry up and realise that there is
>only one option, and that is withdrawal from Lebanon.

Easy for us to say, not very realistic for Israel to do in the face of
rocket attacks, etc. I think that those of us who live in countries
the size of Australia and the United States do not realize just how
tiny Israel is in terms of landmass. Having personaly been in all 3
of the countries I've mentioned, I think I have some appreciation of
this factor. If the roads were a little better, I could probably
drive from one end of Israel to the other in about the same time it
takes me to get to work! Please, no flames about the roads comment,
I know there are many good roads there, but there would be more if
they did not need to spend so much on defense.

The really sad part about the whole situation is that the average
person in that area would benifit tremendously from an equitable
peace. The Israelis have made parts of the desert bloom and from
my contact with them, I am certain they would only be too happy
to show their neighbors how to do the same. However, it seems to
be that the rulers of some of these countries benefit from the
situation as it is. One thing that does seem obvious to me is
that all the ranting and raving done here has about as much chance
of achieving peace as the proverbial snowball. :-(.

Peace;

REB

>>A.Faris

>Brendan.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast