HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: msw10@nepenthe.as (Michael S. Wong)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Tom House (was Re: Jose Canseco to Texas...)
Date: 8 Sep 92 22:41:57 GMT
Reply-To: msw10@nepenthe.as
Organization: Sun Microsystems


In article 56029@olivea.atc.olivetti.com, rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith) writes:
>
[previous quote deleted]
>House uses the football for mechanics. He claims that in order to make
>a football spiral, you have to use essentially the same mechanics necessary
>to properly throw a baseball, so he uses footballs as a practice method.
>From what I've read the pitchers actually like it because they have fun
>with it and almost forget its training.
>
There's a cool Upper Deck Baseball card that has a picture of Nolan throwing a football.
>I think what you were thinking was House's short term experiment with what
>he referred to as "underloading". He got a regulation size and shape baseball
>that weighed LESS than a standard ball. He had pitchers throw this instead
>of a real ball. The theory was that the lighter ball would increase arm 
>speed and that through muscle memory, his pitchers arm speed would increase
>even when they switched back to the normal ball. This is of course directly 
>opposite of standard training where you add weight(like donuts on bats in
>the on deck circle) to make the real item feel lighter.
>

This a different process. "Underloading" is for strengthening. Donuts are to
accustom the muscles to a heavier weight temporarily. Like lifting weight, you
bench 150, then you almost throw, 125 into the ceiling. However, it doesn't
give you long term strength benefits that you feel immediately.

>Apparently the pitchers didn't like underloading at all, and some complained
>that it hurt their arms so House dropped the idea. I'm not sure how much
>lighter the ball was, but anybody who has ever tried throwing a tennis 
>ball really hard will understand the pitchers feelings. You keep throwing
>harder, but the ball is too light to go as fast as you want, and you hurt
>your arm in the process.

In actuality, the majority of stress to the arm comes in *decelerating* the
arm after release. Thus, when one "pushes" against a lighter ball with all one's
strength, there is less mass to push and the arm obtains a higher velocity
and more energy must be expended to decelerate the arm back to a stop. This
is why pitches that are thrown with the close to the same energy as a fastball 
but transfer less of that energy to the ball are especially taxing (such as 
a split-finger fastball or a slider).

>
>
>
>Russ Smith
>*******************************************************************************
>The amount of time spent brushing and flossing your teeth is inversely
>proportional to how recent your last dental appointment was.
>********************************************************************************

Michael Wong.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets)
Subject: Re: humid or dry air ?
Keywords: flight dist
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 19:12:50 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.225526.23109@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> exby@pogo.Colorado.EDU (J. Exby) writes:
>rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Sep8.153130.20008@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> exby@pogo.Colorado.EDU (J. Exby) writes:
>>>
>>>This has probably come up in the "high altitude" research
>>>on the distance a baseball will go .etc...
>>>
>>>All other things being equal, will a baseball travel farther
>>>when it's hit in humid air (say 75%) compared to dry air (<10%) ?
>>>My intuition says humid air, as it's less dense ?
>
>>Less dense?  I'm no authority but I equate Humid air with Thick air.
>
>yeah, and thats why you were accepted into a loosier-ville
>university.  take a few science classes there if they offer them.
>I knew all this chemistry at one time, but old age
>and many beers are slowly draining my brain. 
>;-)

SMILEY FACE OR NO SMILEY FACE, THEM ARE FIGHTIN' WORDS!!!

:}

You know, I wonder how those Buffalo-butts are going to do in big-eight
basketball-- SEVENTH???

>
>>>Anyone out there who KNOWS, post or drop me email.  
>
>>I don't know, but I posted anyway.  So sue me.
>
>I could make another digression into indiana loosiers here too
>but this is getting too easy these days...

Probably as easy as the courses the courses they teach at CU.
Actually, you are right, if they offer Chemistry here I wouldn't know it,
I merely a math student.

RStimets
From: kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Brian Kiviat)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: REPOST: Information on MLB Stadiums
Date: 10 Sep 92 11:29:45 GMT
Reply-To: kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Brian Kiviat)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.sport.baseball, uzogg@mcl.ucsb.edu (Kevin Galinsky) writes:
>>Baltimore Orioles         Camden Yards       47,000
>Baltimore plays at Oriole Park AT Camden Yards
Yeah, but everyone calls it Camden Yards. Except for Eli "I own the
name Oriole" Jacobs. A large majority of the fans and the Governor all
wanted the name of the park to be Camden Yards. Jacobs wanted it called
Oriole Park as he gets royalties for the use of the name "Oriole".
The O's play at CAMDEN YARDS.
   O
   I\   Brian Kiviat (301)227-1833       Sometimes the truth is hidden,
   I \  kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil         Like a shadow in the darkness.
  /     David Taylor Model Basin                  -Master Po
   \___________________________
			     \\
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Baseball Czar Needed!!
Date: 10 Sep 92 01:40:13 GMT
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1992Sep9.222055.14541@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> stanm@comm.mot.com writes:
>In article 8111@ucsu.Colorado.EDU, wilbanks@spot.Colorado.EDU (Dylan the Wonder Pup!) writes:
>>Now that the last non-puppet commissioner has been forced out, and a 
>>puppet and mouthpiece of the owners is coming, I think it is time for 
>>Congress to step in against the 

>[Long digression]

>>owners and complete the task they were going 
>>to do back in 1920 - create a federally-appointed "baseball czar". 
>>A czar who cares about tradition and could keep the owners from 
>>being ridiculous idiots and trade franchise players for no-names. 
>>A czar against wild-card playoffs. A czar who will be fair and impartial
>>and have so much power ha can be fair and impartial.

>>Since baseball is in violation of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act anyway,
>>Congress could do it. 

Um, no, it's not.  Baseball has an exemption from the Anti-Trust laws.

>>Let's save baseball!!!!!

Beats saving string...

>Are we talking about the same Congress who can't seem to balance its budget,
>who basically run for office only to run for office again in 2 to 6 years,
>who are in part responsible for the economic mess we're in?

Not to mention the baseball mess!  Suppose there hadn't been that exemption.
would the reserve clause have lasted as long?  

On the other hand, is *your* Congressman any good?  (Stand by
for an "if by whiskey" speech...)

>It's bad enough the owners are going to put their own guy in, even though
>that's what's been happening since Judge Landis stepped down. However,

That's a euphemism I'd never heard before.  So much more delicate
than "kicked the bucket."

>I shudder to think that Dan Rostenkowski, Newt Gingrich, and Fred "Gopher"
>Grandy have the wisdom to run baseball properly. 

Well, if they do, why would you shudder?  The owners are certainly 
making a first class mess of it, and most of the commissioners have
been turkeys, too.  

>I'm up to my wits' end. Let baseball collapse and let America figure out
>what to do in their spare time while MLB reorganizes itself. We may actually
>figure out something meaningful to do than watch ESPN all evening.

There's always C-SPAN.

Roger
From: paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Vincent Resigns...
Date: 8 Sep 92 17:27:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvaac.1992Sep8.172736.18486
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

In article <18glseINNcbk@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler) writes:

|>      The main problem, according to the Akron Beacon Journal yesterday, is
|> management of the labor situation.  I've heard it reported in various places,
|> including the net, that the owners wouldn't try to re=open the coollective
|> bargaining agreement, even though they can.  I wonder if - having Vincent out
|> of the way - they will now feel more bold in their labor relations and open
|> the agreement, thus forcing a standoff, lockout, and postponement of the
|> 1993 baseball season.  The article in our paper speculated that it would,
|> but that the owners would buckle under the pressure because there are so many
|> different factions among them; after all, a third of owners did vote to keep
|> Fay Vincent as Commissioner.

IMHO, "the labor situation" is precisely the [perceived] problem. I firmly  
believe that the owners have every intention of reopening the existing  
contract, and locking out the players come spring.

Mark my words, I think that there is a significant chance that we will be 
without baseball for some or all of 1993. I firmly believe that baseball is
headed into a prolonged period of anarchy. As Doug alludes above, it is a given
that the owners are generally unable to even agree that the sun will rise.
That they could maintain a prolonged unified front to the players is quite
unlikely.

I wouldn't be booking any airline trips to spring training just yet.

I've been getting more and more entranced with college and minor league ball
over the past few years. All of this current bullshit may push me into that
territory completely.

--->Paul, feeling blue and cynical

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              If you're really hip, the passing years will show.
                                           ......Tower Of Power

  paula@koufax.cv.hp.com   Paul Andresen  Hewlett-Packard  (503)-750-3511

    home: 3006 NW McKinley    Corvallis, OR 97330       (503)-752-8424
                            A SABR member since 1979
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: sweda@css.itd.umich.edu (Sean Sweda)
Subject: Re: The Monthly Cecil Fielder Thread
Organization: University of Michigan ITD Consulting and Support Services
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 13:36:32 GMT

In article <1992Sep6.231719.423@panix.com> spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira) writes:
>In <1992Sep6.185347.29873@terminator.cc.umich.edu> sweda@css.itd.umich.edu (Sean Sweda) writes:
>
>>That's just not true.  I see about 30 to 40 Tiger games a year (I was` a
>>pressbox scorer for STATS Inc) and Cecil is at least an average 1b man
>>defensively.  I think he gets a bad rap because most people look at his
>>size and say "Wow, that fat tub of goo must have no range!", but he
>>actually moves laterally very well.  In fact sometimes this works to his
>>disadvantage because he goes after balls hit to his right that he should
>>probably leave to Lou.  I don't know if anyone has DA stats for Cecil,
>>but I would wager, w/o looking, that Cecil is at least at the league
>>average for 1b.
>
>Year      F's AGDA  Avg AGDA  F's Rank 
>1990        .679      .646     5 of 14
>1991        .653      .662     8 of 13
>
>DA seems to indicate that Fielder is, in terms of range, average for a first
>baseman.  
>
>Nevertheless, if you just substitute "average" for "lousy" in David's
>last sentence, his argument still holds up fine; the argument is more
>one of positional adjustment than defensive skill at those positions.
>The best defensive first baseman ever has much, much less defensive value
>than a poor but playable shortstop simply because its so much
>harder to find someone who can play shortstop. 
>
>Greg 
>-- 

Thanks Greg...

btw, I agree 100% with what David said, except for the "lousy defense"
label that everyone wants to peg on Cecil.

Sean
From: z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: roy NL
Date: 11 Sep 92 11:49:52 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <1992Sep8.171625.19263@leland.Stanford.EDU>, dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dave Eisen) writes:
> In article <1992Sep8.171116.18240@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep8.153300.1877@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>>>
>>>In any event, it really doesn't matter. Sanders is a quality CF, in a hitters'
>>>park. He deserves CONSIDERATION for the ROY, but he IS a part-timer. 
>>
>>The question is, how much is Karros helping the team by playing everyday?  Not
>>much, judging from the fact that he is *below average* for a first baseman.
>>Sanders, although he only plays 65% of the time, contributes much more, since
>>he is *way* above average.  Similar, although a smaller case, for Alou.
>>
>>And, should we punish Sanders for Lou Piniella's stupidity?
> 
> Yes we should. And at some level we do. If Piniella were dumb enough
> to keep Sanders in the minors this year, he would not get any support
> at all for ROY. Playing time counts.

	So much for any last hopes of justice in the US...
	I wouldn't penalize Sanders for his lack of playing time.

> 
> As we all know, an average everyday player has some value, even a
> below average everyday player does. I would be inclined to think
> that a very good player playing 65% of the time is more valuable
> than a below average full-time player, but the choice is by no
> means clear cut.
> 

	Okay, lets look at it this way. You have a part-time player with a
RC/27 of 7.5, and his replacements have a 3.5. Next you have a full-timer with
a RC/27 of 5.5. The first player-combo effectively produces at a RC/27 6.1,
which is still better than the full-time player. Then you have position-played
and defense to take into account. Not really a clear-cut choice, but not
extremely close either.

Brandon Cope
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Juan Gonzales (40+ homers before age 23)
Date: 13 Sep 92 05:09:43 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <9209120620.AA24310@bottom.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> cclaydon@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (C Robert Claydon) writes:

>A UPI report listed the other players who have hit 40+ homers before turning 
>23, and while there are some impressive players, I don't think any are in the 
>top five of all-time home runs.  From memory, they are:

>Eddie Matthews (twice), Joe Dimaggio, Johnny Bench and one other (sorry, I 
>forget! :-)

Mel Ott, who had some pretty amazing teenage seasons.

>Anyway, while Matthews topped 500 HR, and Bench petered out largely because of 
>the wear and tear of catching, I don't think you could say any of these guys 
>were a serious threat to pass 700 (or even 600) HR lifetime...

Depends on what you consider "serious threat".  Matthews certainly was; 
he hit 25+ in each of his first 11 seasons, then petered out in his
mid 30s.  Ott had a couple of great seasons early, but didn't
have Aaron's consistency (at the same level, Ott was very consistent
at hitting 30 HRs, just not 40...).

However, let's take a close look at that list.
Please note that *EVERYONE* who hit 40+ HRs by age 23 is in 
the Hall of Fame.  Not just 50% or some other fraction.  ALL of them.

JG isn't a guarantee to go to Cooperstown - there are some flaws 
in his offensive game - but he's got a good shot at it.


-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Ripken's Season
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 04:01:58 GMT

In article <1911bhINNih1@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bk713@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Kimon Zachary) writes:
>
>I was at the Yards today, and of the few times the crowd bothered to make much
>noise, perhaps the most notable was some fairly lusty booing of Cal (Ripken,
>not Elred).  Booing CR Jr in Balto. is like booing Yaz in Boston (before he
>retired, that is.)

The bandwidth of that channel is pretty small.  Were the fans booing
Ripken?  Or were they booing the streak?  Or were they saying "pinch
hit for this guy"?  Jeff Reardon is a great guy and used to be a
pretty good pitcher.  And he's still not *that* bad.  But I sure as
hell booed when he came in for the Red Sox, because the management
needs to know that he isn't a good signing for next year!  And Hobson
needs to know that bringing Reardon in for Clemens is a dumb idea.

>Could Cal have abruptly slipped into mediocrity at age 32 (?is that right)?
>I doubt it, but wouldn't that be just about the greatest contractural lemon
>of all time?

It'll be difficult to beat Mark Davis.  (I think he's still the
biggest lemon ever, right?)

>Would Cal ever be benched?  If he keeps up this Mendozaesque
>production next year, Oates will have no choice. (Right?) It will be
>interesting what happens if Cal makes a tepid recovery, say to
>.240/.300/.360.  I guess that would be OK for a SS.

Actually above average.  Shortstops, in general, can't hit.

>The O's look pretty dead.  Pity.  I was looking forward to a race.

Yeah.  :-( None of the teams really wanted to win it, but the O's and
the Brewers managed to out-suck the Jays.  And now the Jays are
playing well again.  And it looks like Oakland will win the West, so
I'll have to root for the Jays again!

A couple days ago, somebody was saying that the AL East had the only
race remaining in baseball.  But the Expos are the closest
second-place team at this point!  And with the NL schedule, they
should have a fair number of head-to-head games left, no?

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Clemens four Cy Young!
From: barrym@informix.com (Barry Mednick)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Amazing Walk Total
Summary: Beckett
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:41:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <56048@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith) writes:
>Check out Robbie Beckett's stats sometime(class A Padres pitcher). For 
>the year he's averaging 9 K's and 11 Walks per 9 innings! Gave up only
>3 hits in his last 20 innings(from Baseball America so stats are a bit
For the record:
    Robbie Beckett
                   W    L    ERA     IP     H      R      ER      BB    SO
1990, Arizona Leag 2    5   4.38     49    40     28      24      45    54
1991, Charleston   2   14   8.23    109   115    111     100     117    96
1992, Waterloo     3    9   5.11    104    68      -       -     125   118

How would you like to bat against him?
--------
From: daniel@acpub.duke.edu (Daniel Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Magic Numbers Explanation...
Date: 11 Sep 92 18:13:31 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.


I would greatly appreciate it if someone out there could please explain
the magic numbers that come so often into discussion this time of year.
What is the exact definition of the magic number?

Thanks in advance....

Reply to:  daniel@acpub.duke.edu

T. Daniel Crawford
Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry
University of Georgia
Athens, GA 30602
From: dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Vincent Resigns...
Date: 7 Sep 1992 22:42:22 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt Bose "of Biscayzee") says:

>The local NBC affiliate just reported that Fay Vincent tendered his resignation
>as Commissioner of Baseball effective immediately.  I'll leave details to the
>bastards who get ESPN...PTTTHHHHH! on you.

     I was hoping to pull the scoop from our ABC affiliate, but oh well...
     The main problem, according to the Akron Beacon Journal yesterday, is
management of the labor situation.  I've heard it reported in various places,
including the net, that the owners wouldn't try to re=open the coollective
bargaining agreement, even though they can.  I wonder if - having Vincent out
of the way - they will now feel more bold in their labor relations and open
the agreement, thus forcing a standoff, lockout, and postponement of the
1993 baseball season.  The article in our paper speculated that it would,
but that the owners would buckle under the pressure because there are so many
different factions among them; after all, a third of owners did vote to keep
Fay Vincent as Commissioner.
     I don't know how deep the owners' war chest is, but I think that part
is ridiculous; they would be giving up the last lucrative year of t.v. rights,
unless they're guaranteed with or without games to be shown. (They could be,
and - if so - that really eliminates the only negative to that theory.)
Either way, it looks like there will be some very tough labor negotiations
ahead.
     One question I want answered: Will the other owners now "force" the Cubs
into the N.L. West?  And what about the Giants?
-- 
Doug Fowler: dxf12@po.CWRU.edu      :    "Every baby born into the world is
Real home: Canton, Ohio             :  finer than the last."--Charles Dickens
 Trying to follow in the path of our :     "A baby is an inestimable
Lord;anything close will be a success:  blessing and bother."--Mark Twain
From: pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Dodgers Find Yet Another New Way To Lose
Date: 10 Sep 1992 23:35:13 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

Orel Hershiser pitched brilliantly tonight but lost on
a very strange play...what else is new.


The score was tied 1-1.  The Dodgers run came on a solo home
run by Billy Ashley, his first of the year.

It was, I believe, the top of the 8th inning and a runner
was on first base with one out.  Hershiser threw to
first very wildly and the Padres runner reached third on the
throw.  Hershiser retired the next batter and the Padres brought
Tony Gwynn up to bat for the pitcher.  A conference ensued at the
mound.  Apparently, catcher Piazza failed to call time out and
the Padres runner saw that time had not been called, so he
basically just ran home while the conference was on the mound.
Orel watched but couldn't throw home because nobody was there.

None of the Dodger announcers could ever remember seeing anything
quite like that, but they have been saying that all year about
various plays.  The Padres added a run in the ninth, thanks
in large part to Howell's wild pitch and they won it 3-1, with
Randy Myers recording a save.

					BleedsDodgerBlue

Oh, in case you missed it.....Darryl changed his mind again and
IS going to have back surgery next week some time.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball