HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rs54@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Richard Sucgang)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Locarno = Kirk (Spoilers "First Duty"))
Date: 7 Apr 92 01:22:26 GMT
Reply-To: rs54@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Richard Sucgang)
Organization: Columbia University

In article <1992Apr5.221926.12208@acsu.buffalo.edu> v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey) writes:
>Important Pieces of the Discussion After Spoiler:
>
>
>>|>	It almost seems that Lacarno's character is modelled after James
>>|>     Kirk.
>
[lotsa deleted stuff]

>     BTW, anyone notice the time frame for the ^last^ attempted Culvort
>     Starburst (spelling?) -- 100 years ago.  Kirk himself?...     

Nahh...Picard says that all five pilots were killed...


-rich
Richard Sucgang : Dept. of Anatomy and Cell Biology
Columbia University (sucgang@cuhhca.hhmi.columbia.edu; 
de slime god         rs54@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: mueller@cage.eng.mcmaster.ca (Edna Mueller)
Subject: Re: those things on their belts
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 20:34:11 GMT

Jim Hendrick (hendrick@ctron.com) writes:

>>    enterprise goes back to tasha's home planet, when tasha's sister was
>>    beaming down to the colony to help rescue the crewmen,  she had on a
>>    blue jumpsuit with matching blue phaser holster.  how nice, they must
>
>Who noticed the holster ???
>
>Sorry, just an avid Linda Hamilton fan. ;-)


Sorry to burst your bubble, but that actress is NOT Linda Hamilton.
It sure looks a lot like her and I thought it was too till I read it
in a fanzine what the actress' name is.  I can't recall it right
now, but I'll check it on the weekend.  

			Edna
			(Just call me Schmeby, everyone else does!)
					    mueller@cage.eng.mcmaster.ca
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                "Oops". -- Jean-Luc Picard, "Pen Pals"
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch)
Subject: Loop Misnomers (was Re: Lynch's Spoiler Review: "The First Duty")
Keywords: TNG, Wesley, Academy
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 01:34:17 GMT

mikeh@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (michael p.herlihy) writes:
>In article <1992Apr7.001430.13295@cco.caltech.edu> tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:

>>...maneuver called a Jaeger loop...

>I thought this maneuver was called a Yeager loop named after
>Chuck Yeager - the first person to break the sound barrier

Yeah, you're probably right.  The thought never even occurred to me, but
I've had at least 3-4 responses besides yours.  Whoops; my fault.  (No 
offense, Chuck, if you're reading.  ;-) )

Tim Lynch
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current

> kenk@mips.com (Ken Kubey) / 11:18 am  Apr  1, 1992 /
> 
> >goodwin@orionsci.UUCP (Ben Goodwin) writes:

> >No, they specifically state that the time loop was caused by the 
> >explosion of the enterprise so close to the rift.  The Boseman went
> >through the rift, struck the Enterprise and the loop was started.
> >The Boseman crew experienced the loop the exact number of times that
>                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >the E crew did, but for a shorter time.
>                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Are you saying that the Bozeman and crew go off into limbo for 
> several hours and then come out for the last 36+ seconds to crash with 
> the big E?

No, they are only thrown back 36 seconds in time, while the Enterprise
was thrown back however far they were (between a half-day and a day-and-
a-half, it seems).  The Bozeman isn't in limbo at any time, unless you
count the time they are actually inside the rift.

> If not, where does the Bozeman go for the other part of the loop?  
> Back to the past (before they entered the rift)?  

Why do you think the Bozeman has to experience an identical loop effect
as the Enterprise?  The entire universe doesn't go through a time loop.
It's a local phenomenon and it affects the Enterprise and the Bozeman
slightly differently.  If you have to compare the two ships in time,
think of the Bozeman on the other side of the rift and approaching it
FOR THE FIRST TIME each time the Enterprise experiences the loop up to
the point the Bozeman comes through.  (Meta-time can be very confusing,
because we're so used to thinking in terms of simple time.)

> Ken Kubey
> kenk@mips.com

David B. Mears
Hewlett-Packard
Cupertino CA
hplabs!hpda!mears
mears@hpinddf.cup.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: rll1@kepler.unh.edu (Robert L Lamothe)
Subject: Re: More Cause & Effects and where Bozeman went. (Argh!)
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 20:09:52 GMT

In article <28600@brahms.udel.edu> roby@brahms.udel.edu (Scott W Roby) writes:
>>Are you saying that the Bozeman and crew go off into limbo for 
>>several hours and then come out for the last 36+ seconds to crash with 
>>the big E?
>
>First off, the serial time loop used in this episode is unlike any 
>I have seen before in SF.  It is serial (the loops are lined up 
>end to end relative to Outside Universe Time (OUT)).  That is if 
>the Enterprise goes though 17 1 day loops, then 17 days pass in OUT 
>while the crew experiences 1 day over and over.  The time loops 
>normally found in SF are parallel loops (all 17 1 day loops would 
>occur dauring the same 1 day of OUT).
>
>So the Enterprise explodes creating a "bubble" in which time loops 
>serially.  If the bubble was large enough, then the Bozeman is also 
>contained in it and loops.  I assume that each ship loops back to 
>the point where they entered the region of the bubble (the E loops 
>back 1 day and the B loops back 1 minute).
>
>Now how does all this translate into Outside Universal Time?  
>Here is where the serial time loop gets really stupid...  :-)
>The Enterprise, at the end of a loop, loops back 1 day in 
>their own time, but continues forward normally in OUT.  The 
>Bozeman loops back 1 minute in their time and jump forward 
>23 hours and 59 minutes in OUT.  So the Bozeman doesn't 
>"disappear" during those several hours, it jumps forward 
>(in OUT) to its next appearance in the next loop.
>
>A diagram:
>
>Universe:   avcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ...
>Enterprise: abcdefghabcdefghabcdefghabcdefghabcdefghabcdefghabcd...
>Bozeman:          gh>>>>>>gh>>>>>>gh>>>>>>gh>>>>>>gh>>>>>>gh>>>>...
>
>If the bubble has a limited range in space (doesn't involve 
>the entire universe, just these two craft), then it probably 
>has a limited range in time as well and may not permit the 
>Bozeman to loop back a full day (which for them began 80 years 
>earlier).
>
>Bottomline:  Know one knows how timeloops work.  If you don't 
>like the Bozeman jumping ahead 23 hours and 59 minutes, consider 
>the fact that in this serial timeloop, every moment in the loop 
>is effectivly jumping ahead 24 hours.
>
>Now for equally important discussion...
>If a tree falls in the forest and there is noone there, does it make 
>a sound?
>
How about: If a tree falls on DeForest and there is noone there, does he make
a sound.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin)
Subject: Re: Lacarno = Kirk (Spoilers "1st Duty)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 19:37:23 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park
Originator: clin@coke.eng.umd.edu



   Just saw 'Family' again last night.   From what I recall on 1FD, Picard tells
Wesley that he will have a hard time living at the Academy and so forth.  At
one point in "Family",  Jean Luc's older brother (can't remember the name now -- Robert?) 
tells Jean Luc that he will have a hard time living with the fact that he was
used to kill fellow Starfleet members.  It was up to him to decide whether
to live with it with Louis underwater or up on the Enterprise.   They appear
to be similar words.   The person who plays Jack Crusher appears to have a faint
resemblance to Nick.  They're different actors, to be sure, but....

--
   ______    __    __   ___  ____
  / ____ \  |  |  |__| |   \ |  |    Charles Lin
 | /    \_| |  |   __  |    \|  |    e-mail: clin@eng.umd.edu
 | |        |  |  |  | |  |\    |   
 | |     _  |  |  |__| |__| \___|    University of Maryland
 | \____/ | |  |____                 "I hate big sigs." -- Moo
  \______/  \_______|
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: ray@nmsb.larc.nasa.gov
Subject: Lwaxana and computer
Originator: hazari@dagger.larc.nasa.gov
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 14:35:40 GMT

I just got done watching 'Half a Life' and noticed that the computer's voice
was not heard for the entire episode.  Can anyone confirm if this is typical
of all the Lwaxana episodes (i.e. Lwaxana or computer, not both)?

Later!
Ray Balister
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: iacovone@zeus.franklin.edu (Daniel R. Iacovone)
Subject: Re: Comment on Wesley's room (First Duty)
Organization: Franklin University (Columbus, OH)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 17:52:53 GMT

In article <DEMILLO.92Apr6115717@egeus.juliet.ll.mit.edu> demillo@juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Robert DeMillo ) writes:
>In article <1992Apr6.150336.1734@osc.edu> phil@stupid.cgrg.ohio-state.EDU (Phil Ritzenthaler) writes:
>
>> In article <1992Apr6.074215.12501@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, bn981@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ryan Mathews) writes:
>> |> 
>> |> The door had a doorknob, and it swung open.  Awfully low tech, dontcha
>> |> think?
>> |> 
>> |> Either there's some point to this, or the average college dormitory in
>> |> the 24th century is as old and unmodern as the ones today.  :-)
>
>I thought this was great and made a lot of sense for exactly the 
>reason the previous poster listed. Most of the dorms in older colleges
>that I have been to are always about 100 years out of date...sometimes
>more in the case of some of the 200+ year old ivy colleges. I thought
>it was a great touch...


Of course, the only problem with this is that they had to throw one
of those replicated computer/replicator terminals on the
side wall next to the window.  You know--one of those mechanisms that
every life form that the E encounters has.  ie)First Contact and 
					         many more.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current,rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch)
Subject: Re: more Kobiyashi
Followup-To: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 22:44:59 GMT

Followups set to r.a.s.misc.

cortese@hepxvt.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

>You are ignoring something important to a control and command oriented
>person like Kirk.  All of the previous situations involved something
>where HE was forced to take action and resolve the situation.  

[...]

>But, here, he was faced with a situation that he could do absolutely
>nothing about.  Spock was going to die, and he could do *nothing.*
>Here, he could only watch and feel the worst emotion possible for him --
>helplessness.

A very good point.  Kirk is also stuck looking at, say, McCoy and Scotty, and
realizing that *they* tried to STOP Spock from doing this, while he didn't
even get the chance.  Had Spock said in advance what he was going to do, 
you can bet Kirk would have tried to somehow replace him at the task.  Again,
he didn't get the chance.

That helplessness--namely, the "there's nothing I can do, and nothing I *could
have* done" feeling--is precisely what I think the KM test is supposed to 
get across, and Kirk apparently didn't get it.

Tim Lynch
From: The Painkiller
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: the outcast from a queer perspective
Date: 8 Apr 92 00:55:36 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <167C110613.ROSGARA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu> ROSGARA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu writes:
>
> 
>I waited for this episode for years and i have really mixed emotions. first of
>all gender was essentialized -- people felt "female" or "male" -- as if, what,
>they felt like they wanted to wear make up, nurture, or talk about sports and b
>beer? And worse, of course, gender was defined as heterosexual,if one felt male
>than they were heterosexual. What the hell? Also when riker was talking about w
>what men like when sorren asked him he said some like this kind of woman, some
>liked that kind of woman, but never maybe some liked guys? What the hell? Also
>it was way assimilationist -- "were the same as you, we love,etc".
>why cant we get a queer character on? rikers rabid heterosexuality is thrust in
> our faces and we cant get a queer (i think tasha was bi but that was never
>explicit.) i dunno, i was sort of disappointed.

	For God's sake, this is just a goddamn TV show ( ... NOT... ).
	It is a science-fiction show, and not a moral commentary about the 
24th or the 20th century.
	I don't see what you are whining about. They cannot accommodate
everybody, you know.

	Call me "TORCHY"

							The Painkiller

****************************************************************************
	Planets devastated,		  |	THE PAINKILLER
	Mankind on its knees,		  |  
	A saviour comes from outer skies  | " May the farce be with you "
	In answer to their pleas..        | " Engage"
	HE IS THE PAINKILLER.             | " About face, Wesley"
****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: plutnj@aix.rpi.edu (James Matthew Plutnicki)
Subject: Re: ALL the "Enterprises"
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 22:53:15 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.150054.2618@vax1.umkc.edu> en110a20@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
> At the last Trek convention I attended, there was a nice 
>poster of ALL the Enterprises, including another starship that pre-dated the 
>first NCC-1701. I don't know of any sources for this poster, other than a
>dealer at one of the "Cons" this summer. Hope this helps.

I have this poster of which you speak.  It is nice but totally incorrect as far
as information goes.  It has the Enterprise-C listed as an Alaska class 
battleship and the diagram is all wrong.  It has the Enterprise A listed as
Enterprise class.  It also has the Enterprise D listed with Ultrawarp.
Now these are some FASA and other theories that I have heard but most 
have been discarded as UN-canon.  I do NOT want a flame war over that
statement !!! Understand!!  This is only an observation based on what I
read here.

The address on the poster is Temporal Graphics
			P.O. Box 335
			Sutton, Massachusetts 01590

...Jim (the Q-Man) Plutnicki
|FQT 1.10| Back Up My Hard Drive? I Can't Find The Reverse Switch!

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: fal20643@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Capt. Frank A. Lauro)
Subject: Re: Characters on Deep Space Nine
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 23:34:32 GMT

tarrall@horton.Colorado.EDU (The Admiral, actually) writes:

>Spoilers for "The First Duty" ahead....
>
>The original poster (KPS@psuvm.psu.edu) suggested that, while he's out of
>Star Fleet, Locarno might an interesting addition to the cast of Deep
>Space Nine (and its supposedly grittier surroundings) in some capacity
>or another.

>Warning.  Possible _Star Trek: Deep Space Nine_ spoilers lie ahead.
>
























>Conjecture:  It is possible that Lt. Cdr. Albert might become the Deep
>Space Nine commander a year or so from now.

Doubtful, for this reason:

>Double whammy.  With his son and wife both gone, he'd be more alone
>(fitting the darker nature of the show, right?) and would now have several
>reasons to hate Picard.

Doublw whammy, indeed -- and you can't convince me that the fact that
the man's wife just died a year ago would go unmentioned in the wake 
of his son's untimely death.

>Anyway, it's just an idea.  I don't imagine that Berman, et al are going
>to run with it or anything remotely close.  (And if they do, I don't imagine
>they're going to credit me for any of it.)

Well, it *was* a nice idea...
--------
Captain Frank A. Lauro          Commanding Officer       University of Illinois
fal20643@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu       USS ALEXA NCC 1764-D     Urbana-Champaign
--------
"Dear God:  I really liked your book.  It had a lot of good stuff in it.
 But then, I've always liked science fiction."
 -- excerpt from CHILDREN'S LETTERS TO GOD
From: carraghe@cs.ucsd.edu (Robert Carragher)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: What did Picard do? (minor TFD spoiler)
Date: 6 Apr 92 23:41:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: sdcc12.31399

rvc40592@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Bob Cadman) writes:
>I hope this works:
>
>Another thing ... did you notice how when Geordi told Picard about the
>valve (or whatever) being opened, Picard immediately knew exactly what
>it was they were doing?  Isn't that just a wee bit to convenient?  (I
>was also wondering if anyone remembered how long they said that 
>maneuver had been banned at the academy ... 100 years?)

Well, as soon as I heard that the usual intention of opening the
valuve (or whatever) was to dump plasma, AND that it was dangerous
because the plasma would usually be ignited, the first thing I
thought of was a fiery, plasma display.  It seemed obvious to
me.  Now, add to that what would have to be an awesome display
(this was NOVA team, after all), and you probably have the banned
maneuver.

				Bob Carragher

-- 
Reply: rcarragher@ucsd.edu       "Imagine all the people,
    or rcarragh@ucsd.edu          Living life in peace...."
if the above didn't work
                                          -- J.L.
From: mal6657@tamsun.tamu.edu (Mark A. Lindsay)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Locarno's actions.
Date: 9 Apr 92 04:10:30 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station

doctor@cs.mcgill.ca (Howard PICAIZEN) writes:

|Spoilers for First Duty...


|Well, friendship cannot simply be discarded, even if it
|means having to hide the truth. What gain was there for anyone in
|revealing what really happened? It would not bring Josh back. The only
|benefits would be to honor and duty. And what honor is there in
|letting down your friends?

	I agree with you except for one thing.  By hiding the truth, they
were DIShonoring the memory of their friend.  Wesley, Locarno, and the rest
of them have the rest of their lives to regain the honor and respect they
lost by screwing up.  Josh will not have that same oppurtunity.  They
were destroying the memory of their FRIEND. I think the higher duty is to
the friend that no longer CAN defend himself, rather than  to those who
are still alive.  Friendship cannot be discarded, but it applies even moreso
to those who have left this life.

I doubt any god who inflicts pain for his own pleasure.
    -- McCoy, "The Final Frontier,"  stardate 8451.1.

mal6657@tamsun.tamu.edu                                   Texas A&M University 
                A Sooner in a strange place called "Aggieland"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: goodwin@orionsci (Ben Goodwin)
Subject: Re: Lacarno = Kirk (Spoilers "1st Duty)
Reply-To: goodwin@orionsci.UUCP (Ben Goodwin)
Organization: Orion Scientific, Inc.
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1992 13:46:36 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.011054.25757@uunet.uu.net> kyle@uunet.uu.net (Kyle Jones) writes:
> > > Nay, I'd say Locarno has learned the lessons of life very
> > > well.  No need to take the heat for something when you don't
> > > have to, particularly if you can blame someone who is
> > > already dead, and mostly responsible for their own death
> > > anyway.  Wesley was naive, and he let Picard bully him into
> > > making a stupid confession.
> > 
> > Are you kidding?
>
>Not at all.  Wesley's confession didn't bring Josh back, and Josh
>decided for himself to attempt the maneuver.  Self-immolation for
>no gain was more stupid than the stunt they pulled to land them
>in mess they were in.  Locarno was right; Wes should have resigned.
>

Are you kidding? :)

Oh come on.  The team screwed up and they should have faced the medicine.
No flame, but your response IMO speaks badly of you.  People should
own up to their actions IMO.  Saying that nobody was hurt by the team's
blaming Josh is incorrect.  Josh's family was hurt, Picard was stunned and
lost respect for Wesley.  The three team members, not Locarno, would have
this terrible secret following them for the rest of their life.

If Locarno was unwilling to come forth and admit his mistake, was willing
to let someone he commanded take the blame just because he's dead and
won't care, then he's unfit for command.

Locarno was ultimately responsible for the accident.  It was stated rather
clearly that everyone on the team had noticed that Joshua had been shaky
of late and wasn't up to the maneuver.  But Locarno ran it anyway because
it would be a glorious ending to a glorious academy career.

If you don't believe you should be held accountable for your actions then
there's no need to go any farther.  If Locarno had admitted immediately
what they had been doing, then he *might* not have been expelled.  he
showed very poor judgement more than once in this episode.  He was unfit
to command and therefore unfit for Starfleet.

-- 
============================================================================
| uunet!orionsci!goodwin        | you with your hair that's always combed,
| Ben Goodwin                   | your suit is always white, your car is
| Washington DC (703) 524-0504  | always clean.  You I hate!!! -Great Race
============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: lite@stpl.ists.ca (Li-te CHENG)
Subject: minor spoiler on First Duty
Organization: Institute for Space and Terrestrial Science
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 11:51:15 GMT

If I'm not mistaken, but when the deceased cadet's father returns Wesley's sweater,
didn't Wesley mention he had used it in Calgary, Canada? Then in that case, there may
be an indirect sort of in-joke, because in the same province there exists a town known
as Vulcan... (anyone who ever saw the Bell Canada commercials about phoning places
that have names of planets should recall the existance of that town...) 

-LTC  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: goodwin@orionsci (Ben Goodwin)
Subject: Re: Lacarno = Kirk (Spoilers "1st Duty)
Reply-To: goodwin@orionsci.UUCP (Ben Goodwin)
Organization: Orion Scientific, Inc.
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 19:42:33 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.194130.16550@keinstr.uucp> chaplin@keinstr.uucp (Roger Chaplin) writes:
>In article <1992Apr6.085229.15350@uunet.uu.net> kyle@uunet.uu.net (Kyle Jones) writes:
>
>>Nay, I'd say Locarno has learned the lessons of life very well No
>>need to take the heat for something when you don't have to,
>>particularly if you can blame someone who is already dead, and
>>mostly responsible for their own death anyway.  Wesley was naive,
>>and he let Picard bully him into making a stupid confession.
>
>Since I don't see any smileys anywhere in this article, I say, "Pity
>those who are forced by life's circumstances to interact with you
>person-to-person."
>

One further note on the >> portion of this post.  If Locarno is not
caught and punished for his actions then he has once again gotten away
with acting irresponsibly.  People who get away with things don't learn
their lessons.  Its when you get caught and punished that you learn not
to repeat a foolish or dangerous action.  If I constantly got away with
robbing banks (never tried it) then I would not *learn* any lessons.  I'd
be rich, but I wouldn't have learned anything! (OK bad anology, seue me!)
-- 
============================================================================
| uunet!orionsci!goodwin        | you with your hair that's always combed,
| Ben Goodwin                   | your suit is always white, your car is
| Washington DC (703) 524-0504  | always clean.  You I hate!!! -Great Race
============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current