From: euclid@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Saint Joan of Arc)
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Subject: A (long!) reply ( was Re: Fork in the Road)
Date: 11 Oct 92 22:54:59 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:

>Well, that inquiry included your real name and was just meant to be a
>friendly jab, letting you know that I've seen your name.  That's all.
   Uh, huh.  You coy dog, you!!

>No.  I don't recall reading any finger-able accounts.  I had fingered
>you at another account at uiuc, but the message bounced back with
>"host unreachable".  I had given up until, one day, I see a lone post
>with a non-fictitious name on it; it emanated from another uiuc
>account (i.e. mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu) which I had not fingered.
   Oh?? So i'll assume you don't know how to reconstruct e-mail addresses
 from the information i gave you, then.  Funny, but a fellow in Texas could
 do it....

>I fingered it.  The names matched, so I assumed that "Elizabeth Kupfer"
>was the real name.  (By the way, I noticed that you have figured out
>how to forge a fake name on this account as well--mrcnext.cso....)
  I knew how a long time ago.  What i tried to point out to you by e-mail,
without the theatrics, is that i could have given you a "real" sounding
name, and you would have been none the wiser.  Had i done that, THAT would
have been an act of dishonesty on my part.  Your crap about my name Euclid
being "dishonest" deserves abit of dunning.  By "real", you mean my "legal"
name, the one on the birth-certificate and state I.D. card.  Knowing it
when dealing with people over the net that you can't see, can't even hear
the tenor of their voices, (and have no other interaction with them aside
from the net) only makes them less 'anonymous' if you're hung up on that
sort of thing.  I was given the name Euclid by friends when i was an
undergrad; they call me Euclid and even snail-mail addressed to me that
way reaches me.  I *am* Euclid.  If you can't handle that that's a quirk
of your own.  Are you bothered because Mark Twain was "really" Samuel
Clemens? D'you think people can only hold one "real" name at a time?
  And really, this bit about my name change showing i know how to "forge...
[on mrcext] as well" ,implying that i do anything of the sort on the vmd
 shows you're ignorant of the situation, though i suppose that can't be helped.
Vmd is *not* a unix machine; it accesses Usenet through an interface developed
here at UIUC.  That is why your finger couldn't reach vmd; it is 
incompatible with Unix.  Even if you *did* reach it, the philosophy that
directed the building of this machine is a tad different...the only way
you could cull my legal moniker from the machine is if you have operator
privileges, or the patience to wade through the entire directory manually
WHICH IS WHY I TOLD YOU TO LOOK ON THE MRCNEXT ACCOUNT!!! If you can't be
bothered to do that, then it can't be that important to you.

>But I really am a cynic; actually, I'm a realist, euphemistically speaking.
    And you impute dishonesty to people where there is none.  If you insist
 you're a cynic, so be it. 
Cynicism is an attitude one has toward the world. Attitudes which suppose
deceit where there is none are not dealing with reality.  You are not a

realist (Q.E.D.).  

>>>I don't discuss my personal life in public.  
>>    Bite your tongue.  What's all that stuff you've posted this summer about
>>Japanese boys being tormented and pushed to work very hard and given false
>>promises about beautiful girls waiting for them at the end of the rainbow
>>(along with a lucrative job, etc.), and your own personal dissillusionment
>>and how you take refuge in beer......and how you're sooooooo Japanese?  Was
>>this all lies?  Are you really some Anglo-Saxon teenager pulling a marvelous
>>prank?  Well?

>No, I have not revealed my personal life in public.  With regards to
>"and how you're sooooooo Japanese", I did not say that I was Japanese.
>I said, "Why do I sound so Japanese?"  This does not indicate that I
>am Japanese.

>I have been careful not to reveal my personal life in public.  It is
>by my choice.
   In so far as you admit to finding some shred of happiness in a beer
bottle you say something of your personal life.  And being so careful to not
"reveal [your] personal life" is interesting...you value your privacy,
but deny other people the wish to retain theirs. I'll never share my thoughts on
life and death with *you* again, unless you pick them up voyeuristically on
a.s.h....as if that makes a difference in the "real" world. So you're either
Japanese or a Nihon-phile Gaijin.  Since you don't really sound at all like
any of the flesh-and-blood Japanese i've met and interacted with, i'll guess
you're really the latter.

>>>   "How does one really know if a choice among alternatives is the
>>>    best?"
>>             That depends on what you value.  Once that's figured out, the
>>   rest is fairly easy.

>No, it isn't.  Some parts of life are clear and discernable for some
>people.  Other parts of life are murky, and the precise direction
>is unclear.
              I suggest you think harder on what i wrote.
  Given the level of background you choose to provide, that is as concise an
answer that is possible, short of resorting to hind-sight, which another fellow
suggests.

>By the way, I did get a chuckle out of that huge smiley face that you 
  Good.  Glad you recognized it for what it was; a collegue here thought it
was a boat with two sails.

>a post.  I guess that I must have pushed the "right" button or something
>because, in the next 2 or 3 posts by you gave really nutty responses.
                                                       ^^^^^^^^^^I gave you
something i figured you could relate to. So you like it? Then i was right. 

  Now, notice how this thread has little to do with A.S.H. per se now?
I've kept my promise; i've not e-mailed you. You've kept what amounts to
a vow: to not talk with me until you knew my "real" name.  Should you
deign to follow this up, for the sake of our fellow a.s.h.-ers i suggest
e-mail (unless you folks would like to hear this?  Folks? What say?).
Bear in mind, Underdog, that you do not have definitive proof that
"Elizabeth Kupfer" is printed on my officialdom I.D. card.  And i'm in no
hurry to confirm it, either.

Euclid

--
St. Joan of Arc ,euclid@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (preferred)
standard disclaimers apply
Hold fast to the center --Tao Te Ching