HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad)
Subject: Re: My: Think Malaysia, not Malay, Chinese, Indian.
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 04:38:42 GMT

kshan@kean.ucs.mun.ca wrote:
: when he was education minister, he tried to destroy all the Chinese 
: primarly schools. That is why Mr. Othman is so happy. Look at Mr. "racist" 

Did he? I thought it was a question of promoting not-necessarily chinese
speeking chinese as head masters in all schools, not only chinese schools?

What finally happened? Isn't the final decision more important than the 
attempts?
	Are you so sure that he was involved?

: Othman now; he is praising him incessantly. Talking about how excellent 
: Anwar is !! Get a life Othman!!
:   

Now who is a liar and a racist?
: 
: By: K.S.SHAN
: 

--
Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: ins774h@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Encik Kong)
Subject: Re: MY: Think Malaysian, not Malay, Chinese, Indian.
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 00:23:04 GMT

>-- article 232:NST:10/17/92

>KUALA LUMPUR - Malaysian must make a conscious effort to accept and practice
>the concept of "bangsa Malaysia" (Malaysian nationality) to promote unity
>and goodwill, the Deputy Minister in the Prime Minister's Department, Raja
>Datuk Ariffin Raja Sulaiman, said on Tuesday.

>    "National integration is possible if there is a total acceptance of
>the concept of 'bangsa Malaysia' among the people," he said.

>    Raja Ariffin said the press should be pro-active in promoting the
>concept of a Malaysian nationality to make people more aware of it.
>"Malaysians cannot run away from the reality that, to attain a cohesive
>and united society, they ..... should identify themselves as a Malaysian
>and not as a Malay, Chinese or Indian," he added. - NST. 10/15/92.

	Does this mean that when I deal with government agencies I won't be

queried for my "Bangsa" and "Agama" in every application forms?

-- 
--------------------- {-: ------------------ :-} ----------------------------
Thaddaeus Kong			             ins774h@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au
Monash University, Melbourne, Australia.
Quote : "Don't you just hate it when the question doesn't suit your answer?"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad)
Subject: Re: Othman's argument
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 04:34:13 GMT

Heng Wei Osbert Tan (fellow@cs.utexas.edu) wrote:
: I'll appreciate if Othman can point out ONE law, regulation, or government
ONE law that I find unfair is the compensation based on 1963(?) prices instead
of the current price.
	Although it affects all races, the Malays suffer the most because they
were former land owners by being first in Singapore.

: practices that may have put our Malay brothers in a disadvantage situation.

The recent advertisement for a "publicity officer" to be fluent in Mandarin
and English is one. If it were for a Mandarin program we can understand but
for a Publicity officer?

I may be wrong in the exact tittle of the Job so I hope someone can clarify.

	It is not fair in Singapore because there is no requirement in Singapore
to study Mandarin unlike Malaysia where everyone is required to study Malay.

: That any competition of any kind is not base on merit ONLY. I'll also 
: appreciate anybody who replies to this posting, including Othman, to refrain
: from using ill founded non-evident, such as "I talked to SOME of MY Malay 
: friends and they TOLD me", to support your argument, it will only demonstrate

I did not say malaysian Malay, I said, Singaporean Malays.
Why do you change my words? Why should I speak to Malaysian Malay when I'm
in Singapore?


There was also an uproar when PM wanted to ban the use of the common Malay
greetings of :
bismillah, alhamdulillah, in public rallies.I'm not sure what actually happens
now, may be someone or groups of people may have put some sense to the
Singapore government.
	There is talk of putting a committe to look into "religous" matters in
politics, under the elected President.

Will you allow them to speak up without being discriminated or put to prison?

I cannot speak based on my experience but only on their experiences.
Right or wrong is another matter. Some of them , I suspect are wrong, just
like the claims of discrimination by the Chinese. My estimate is that 30%
of the claims of discrimination is wrong.
	The same level of confidence can be stated for the claims of the
Singapore Malays.
	Do you want to take chance that you be proven wrong and made to pay
heavy fines? Isn't it better to keep quiet and endure?

With the well publicised law suits against opposition both chinese and malays,
people here do not like to speak up.

Right or wrong does not really matter, just like the chinese accusations of
heavy discrimination in Malaysia. What we want is to gauge their inner feelings.

A rat which is trapped can be dangerous. Just look at Sri Lanka.
--
Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: af1@ra.msstate.edu (Alex Foo)
Subject: Re: Looking for Miss Chen Chwe Eng...
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 09:05:34 GMT

Dear Friends,
  I am looking for Miss Chen Chwe Eng and if you have any information regarding
Miss Chen, please e-mail me.  I know she came to USA but dunno where she is now.You could also inform her that Alex Foo is looking for her.  My number is
  (601) 324-1648.

  Thank you,
From: swkong@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Sieg Wooi Kong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Malaysia News , Nov 8th, 1992
Date: 8 Nov 92 22:36:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: constell.1992Nov8.223603.16834
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA



Hi! I'm a Malaysian studying in the states. Just thought I drop you a line
telling you how much I appreciate you sending all this news to us.
Many Thanks!!!!!!!!!

Melvyn Kong
Univ of Oklahoma.
'
From: andri@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: 14384
Date: 10 Nov 92 23:37:13 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

We will give ET autonomy soon. The center has a plan to deliver most
of its authority except its control on the army and vital
infrastructures to every regency within each province including ET.
Be patient.
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: eletanjm@nuscc.nus.sg (Tan Jin Meng)
Subject: Re: SGP: NUS students an apathetic lot
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 03:39:33 GMT

khor@bnr.ca (Kyle Hor) writes:
: In article <1992Nov11.062039.11016@nuscc.nus.sg>, eletanjm@nuscc.nus.sg (Tan Jin Meng) writes:
: |> 
: |> Certainly lack of time is a factor. But this does not account for the
: |> fact that ECA participation in NUS hostel activities is high (why
: |> ECA activity in hostels is high is irrelevant). I don't think that the
: |> average standard of a student hostelite is very much below that of the
: |> student population at large. BTW I was a hostelite for 4 yrs.
: |> 
: It is not irrelevant.  Hostel promote the sense of community that
: encourages participation.  (Of course, the need to retain a spot is
: (was?) a factor too).

I should have clarified. I was (implicitly) refuting the assertion that
lack of participation in  ECA is due to work pressure.

:  
: Most Asean students studying overseas, would either stay in university
: accomodation or gang together and stay nearby.  Whether they realize
: it or not they have that sense of community which encourages them to
: participate in University's activities.  I can bet that a local
: sutdent in a local American U. would not participate much too if
: he/she stay at home with his/her parents and go to the U just to
: attend lectures.

True. That sense of community does encourage participation. 
:  
: Back to Singapore, other than activities in the hostel, the other
: activities are perceived as non-value added.  It is not going to help
: one get a job in Singapore.  But getting lousy grades will certainly
: hinder a person from getting a good start in the business world.

What is "value-added"? There are people here who would participate if
only they felt they would be appreciated or if they thought they could
do some good.

I am just against categorising NUS students as apathetic or kiasu or
selfish or whatever. This is an insidious (sp?) myth which I feel must be
countered.

jin meng
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: mhmann@nyx.cs.du.edu (Me Mann)
Subject: Re: Othman's argument
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 17:28:20 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.043413.27874@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
>
>The recent advertisement for a "publicity officer" to be fluent in Mandarin
>and English is one. If it were for a Mandarin program we can understand but
>for a Publicity officer?
>	It is not fair in Singapore because there is no requirement in Singapore


Have it ever come across to you that there are SBC publicity officers that 
are  Malay and also fluent only say in English and Malay? You seem to 
have a lot of problem with this. I believe in SBC there must be quite a 
number of positions for this post. Can I say currently they are looking
for one that is fluent in Mandarin. Sometime ago and maybe in the future
they will be looking for one that  is fluent in  Malay or Hindu.

Since you are in Singapore, why don't you pick up your phone
and call SBC. ASk them why they are not advertising for someone
fluent in Malay! and stop guessing.


-Mann




Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: bador@bnr.ca (Yasmin Bador)
Subject: Re: racial harmony- Yasmin
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, UK
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 10:41:29 GMT

In article <1992Nov05.101227.29347@bnr.uk> bador@bnr.ca (Yasmin Bador) writes:
>In article <3379@peking.gdwb.oz.au> mlt@gdwb.oz.au (Mee Teng) writes:
>>bador@bnr.ca (Yasmin Bador) writes:
>>>>
>
>(For the rest of you, yes, I've been reading big books
>with difficult sppeliong. Got to have more than just K&C <-**
>in life, a bit more Milan K, instead!! :) :) :) )
Oopps! Typo. Try K&R
Try compiling,testing and reading news as a new multitaksning
trick. That's why I normally can't be bothered witgh sppeliong
:) :) :). Or on-line gizmos dictionaries.

:) :) :)


>
>***********************************************************
>* Discalimer: My company pays for my ideas not my ideals  *
>*             Please direct reponses to me personally     *
>***********************************************************
>
>
From: rswiftrw@cc.curtin.edu.au (Rod Swift)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Thanks, En. Othman - honestly
Date: 5 Nov 92 06:42:47 GMT
Organization: -=[ Curtin University of Technology ]=-  Perth  Australia

In article <1992Oct30.040415.8147@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg>, eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
> Kelvin Goh (ygoh@fraser.sfu.ca) wrote:
> 
> : It is Genocide.
> 
> I agree it is a kind of genocide, but it is not of the same atrocities as
> that in Bosnia. You can get easily killed by staying at home. And entirely
> generations of family wiped out.

Whoa.  Othman is agreeing with someone!  Surprise surprise!

As for it being a "kind of genocide" you show your weak argumentative skills.
Genocide is genocide.  Did the genocide in East Timor involve killing?  Did the
genocide in Bosnia-Hercegovina involve killing?

You think "it is a kind of genocide"... It's either genocide, or not genocide.
Not "kind of".  Make up your mind.

> 	Any East Timor ever claim that? No, they only say atrocities without
> naming what they are.

Well.  This does it.  You are blatantly lying when the local East Timorese
(you know, the ones that NEVER wanted Indonesia to rule them in the first
place after the Portugese withdrew) were making claims on television of the
atrocities that were being performed by the Indonesian government in East
Timor.

Of course, Malaysia's TV services "censored" everything about the genocide
that was committed by one of Malaysias "best" friends and neighbours.

Rod
-- 
|            . . .   . . . . .          "It leaves us galloping up Diarrhoea|
|        +  +  +     +  +  +  +  +                  Drive without a saddle."|
|    *   *   *       *   *   *   *   *                                      |
|R    o    d         S    w    i    f    t        -- Kryten from "Red Dwarf"|
+-----------------------------------+---------+-----------------------------+
|  Curtin University of Technology  |  Perth  |  RSWIFTRW@cc.Curtin.edu.au  |
From: ekhor@black.clarku.edu (Eng K Khor)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Looking for Goh Tat Sim
Date: 14 Nov 92 01:03:11 GMT
Organization: Clark University (Worcester, MA)

Netters,

I am interested in contacting my former classmate, Mr Goh Tat Sim (from Kedah,
Malaysia), who is currently an undergrad (2nd year) at Monash University AU. 
If anyone knows of his email address, please inform me of his whereabouts.

Thanks in advance.

Cordially,

Eng. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: subraman@andy.bgsu.edu (ANAND)
Subject: ASPIRE-L
Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:03:59 GMT

Dear netters,

        Recently I have posted an article regarding the ASPIRE-L project
group based on the newsletter I received from the International Program
in our university here. The internet and bitnet addresses I provided have
some misprints I believe.  I'm having the same problem like some of you had.
I send a mail to Ball State university to the project telecommunication
coordinator for the correct addresses. I'll post it as soon as I get it.
Didn't mean to create any trouble here, so sorry for any inconvinience that
I've caused.

Thanks.

Geeva Subramaniam
University Computer Services
Bowling Green State University.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: azran@leland.Stanford.EDU (Azran Osman Rani)
Subject: Malaysia's racial policies
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 09:02:31 GMT


There have been a lot of sentiments presented on this issue here on the
net. Almost everyone seems to voice disappointment with the government
of Malaysia's racial policies and how they are discriminated and
treated like 2nd class citizens.

I don't wish to participate in any discussion/ flames/ feedback/queries
regarding this since, from experience, I know how useless it is to 
conduct any rational, intelligent discussion on this newgroup.

But I have this to say.
No one seems to be addressing why the gov't has these policies. Only
that it does not favor them. 
These are only my opinions but it is not a simple matter of reducing
poverty. i.e. to provide assistance according to level of wealth/poverty
regardless of race. It is about race. Ethnic distributions of the economy.
The socio-economic restructurization that the gov't is doing is probably
done under the assumption that a multi-racial country like malaysia needs
to have racially-proportionate representation in all socio-economic fields,
to avoid a monopoly of a certain sector of the economy by a certain race,
in order for the so called 'national harmony' to establish. This was the
first objective of the NEP. Elimination of poverty was the second.

essentially, it is about numbers. THis is perhaps clearly reflected in local
university admissions (the quota thingy). Currently, there are 
disproportionate numbers of ethic representation in fields like engineering,
medicine, law, etc. Since more malay engineers and doctors are needed
to balance the 'numbers', more spaces are allocated for malays in these
fields. Similarly, more spaces are allocated for say, Chinese in the
Arts. This does not mean that any malay off the street can qualify for
the spaces. Neither do these policies put a restriction on Chinese wanting
to study fields like engineering if they don't make the quota in local
U's. There are always other ways besides local universities. Nothing is
forbidden. I am not interested in discussing this further.

You might ask, why is it so important that there be proportionate ethnic
representation in all fields. Well, from what you know of the people
of Malaysia, imagine what the society would be if a doctors, engineers
and accountants were predominantly chinese and history teachers
and were predominantly Malay. Think national harmony can be established
in such a society? The founders of the country did not need to imagine
such a scenario because it was reality during the birth of the nation
and obviously it did not promote national unity. 
Yes, perhaps these policies sacrifice quality but national unity comes
with a price and it is all a matter of priorities. Yours is probably
not the same as the govt, perhaps?

If one were genuinely interested in the issue, one would take the
initiative to learn more about why such policies were formulated. 


'Nuff said from me. I will not entertain any response on this matter if
it is the usual, unproductive, emotional mumbo-jumbo. 

Azran Osman-Rani
Stanford University.
From: engp1186@nusunix1.nus.sg (Won-Soon Lau)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Think Malaysian, not Malay, Chinese, Indian????????
Date: 12 Nov 92 02:38:17 GMT
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

The Big Color Wolf (guiyu@spectra.eng.hawaii.edu) wrote:
: 	25 years ago, Mr. Lee Kwan Yew proposed a slogan
: 
: 	"Malaysia for Malaysians"
: 			    ====
: 
: 	while he was campaigning in the then Federal states(including S'pore)
: 
: 	......
: 	In the end, he was given 2 choice by the Tungu
: 		1)go to Singapore and make Singapore Independent
: 		2)get arrested the next day for causing social UNREST
: 
: 	He had no choice but to choose 1) and that is why we have the
: 		Republic of SINGAPORE
: 							Sincerely yours,
: 							Julian CHANG
: ==============================================================================
    The two choices story is the official statement but what I heard is a
different one.  LKY was given the treatment of choice number 2 but something
happened ... and Tungu has to resort to choice number 1.  That "something
happened" is not very good to mention here and afterall there were not many 
people involved.

-Won Soon
--
VLSI DESIGN & CAD LABORATORY          \  Internet: engp1186@nuscc.nus.sg
Dept of Electrical Engineering         \  Bitnet:  ENGP2065@NUSVM.bitnet      
National University of Singapore        \  Phone:  (+65) 772 6319       
10, Kent Ridge Crescent. Singapore 0511. \______________________________
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: iscksc@nuscc.nus.sg (Mr Khoo Siau Cheng)
Subject: Re: SGP: NUS students an apathetic lot
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 01:50:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.170618.14561@bmers95.bnr.ca> khor@bnr.ca writes:
> 
 ... [stuffs about sense of community deleted]...
>Back to Singapore, other than activities in the hostel, the other
>activities are perceived as non-value added.  It is not going to help
>one get a job in Singapore.  But getting lousy grades will certainly
>hinder a person from getting a good start in the business world.

This sounds rather pathetic. There are still many students who
take part in activities organized by many societies/clubs/associations
in the university. Also, quite a number of students take up tuition
jobs to support their livings, and still some (though not many)
perform social works at various organization. IMO, most students are
contented with lives in the university, and therefore see no
benefit in joining the student union.  

Is NUS students an apatheic lot? May be, but you shouldn't judge it
from the number of students taking part in the student union
activities. 

>
>my 2 cents too :).
>
adding 1 more cent.

>. Kyle Hor 

-- Siau Cheng

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: engp2120@nusunix2.nus.sg (YONG KUEN FATT ALAN)
Subject: Re: racial harmony- Yasmin
Reply-To: engp2120@nusunix2.nus.sg
Organization: Dept of EE, National Uni of Singapore
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 07:44:31 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.050031.27504@ems.psu.edu>, nor@hekla.pnge.psu.edu (Nor-Azlan Nordin) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov9.002942.23767@leela.cs.orst.edu> looi@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Wan Looi) writes:
|> 
|> >>Perhaps W. Looi can  reproduce some of Zam's "dirt"  from his archive?
|> >>
|> >>-Mann
|> >
|> >:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) .....
|> >
|> >I will when the time and place is right! Btw, I'm gonna make hardcopies
|> >of some of his notorious remarks and laminate them to guard against
|> >my hard disk failure.
|> >
|> >Enuf said, too.
|> >
|> >-looi
|> 
|> 
|> Yes, to make it fair and square, include your racial slurs against 
|> Malays too.  Will you?  You still remember them right?  I can refresh
|> your mind.  Don't worry.
|> 
|> -azlan nordin-
|>   Penn State
Oh, Zam *is* still alive! I thought you have been killed in a
car accident, or maybe decomposing in the bush somewhere. Aren't
you suppose to graduate by now? Fail again eh? Never mind, there
are lots more of the tax payers money for you to squander.

Alan

- Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life here -Kirk looking at Zam
**********************************************************************
* engp2120@nusunix2.nus.sg     engp1222@nuscc.nus.sg                 *
* VLSI CAD and Design Laboratory, Dept of Electrical Engineering     *
* National University of Singapore, 10 Kent Ridge Crescent           *
* Singapore 0511.     Telephone: 7726319     Fax: 7773117            *
**********************************************************************
-----                     Lets get dangerous                     ---DW
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: azran@leland.Stanford.EDU (Azran Osman Rani)
Subject: Re: Malaysia's racial policies
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 18:55:10 GMT


I have but one more thing to say to this flea circus of a newsgroup.

Ok, I can't and won't speak for other Malays but I can say that I for
one think that it absolutely sucks to receive these so-called 'special
priviledges'. Makes me feel like a handicapped invalid. Does anyone
actually think that, well, since I can't speak for all Malays, I *like*
to have these special privileges given to me? When I talk of these
privileges, pride is the last thing that comes to mind.
Its not the best feeling to have all my achievements belittled by
people saying things like "Well, the only reason you managed to do that
is because you have all these priviledges and advantages."

Does anyone think its cool to be labelled "bangsa subsidi", to belong
to a group that allegedly cannot achieve anything significant without
gov't assistance??? How about having adjectives like "helpless", "pathetic";
"unproductive", "slow" be associated to your group of people???
Hey, I'd like to get out of this mess as soon as any of you want to.

I realize that the implementation of the NEP and the "special priviledges"
hasn't been in the fairest and smoothest sense. But from
what I see it, without the NEP, I don't think my friends and family might
be able to move up, out of our kampungs. I probably might not have
all these educational opportunities given to me. 
Its not the most perfect system but this is also an extremely complex
and sensitive issue. Just simply banging on it without giving any thought
to how other people feel, to its history, to its bare essence, is not
going to help at all.....


All my love,

Azran Osman-Rani
Stanford University