HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hardiman@bcstec.boeing.com (Paul Hardiman)
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject: CheckMark
Date: 7 Apr 92 20:28:22 GMT
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle


in <tag> Jan 1992, there was a reference to CheckMark in the cover
article.  Interested in knowing who the vendor is and any user related
comments.

Email is best.

-- 
Ciao 4 Now ---
  Paul Hardiman  (206) 728-8843  hardiman@bcstec.boeing.com
From: davidf@mks.com (David J. Fiander)
Subject: The SGML light bulb
Organization: Mortice Kern Systems Inc., Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 15:01:43 GMT

I've been reading this newsgroup for a while, and just started
re-reading <cite/The SGML Handbook/.  The light bulb just came
on.

As everybody keeps saying, SGML describes the structure of the
document, but not the semantics.  I was getting hung up on how
the application assigns semantics to the elements defined by
the DTD.  My big problem was that if we take a DTD ("ISO
8879-1986//DTD General Document//EN", say), and change all the
element and entity names to "rose1", "rose2", etc., and then
make the corresponding changes to a document, then an
application wouldn't know what to do with it any more.  I was
thinking that the entity semantics would be hardwired into the
application, in much the same way the troff primitives are.

This is when I realised (light bulb #1) that, in order to
support the full generality of SGML, the application has to have
some external mapping from the SGML tags to the semantic
actions to be performed, which would commonly be implemented in
a control language of some sort.  Hence, sgmls comes with a
skeleton perl script to translate the output of sgmls into the
correct troff.  So, whenever I add (or rename) an entity I have
to also inform the application of the corresponding semantics
by editing the file (AKA style sheet) containing the
corresponding mapping.

This is all eminently clear to you all, I'm sure.  However, the
second light bulb is that, instead of having one language to
describe the structure of the document (SGML), and another
language to describe the semantics (in this case, perl), we can
use SGML to describe the semantics as well.  This has many
advantages, but the most important one is that we can make
explicit the "link" between the structure and the semantics.

Now I just need an SGML parser that groks implicit links.

--
David J. Fiander          |EXAMPLES:  'sed 10q file' -- Print the first 10
<davidf@mks.com>          |lines of a file.  Some systems call this
Mortice Kern Systems Inc. |function _head_.
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada |       - tail(1) man page from Research UNIX
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
From: Erik Naggum <erik@naggum.no>
Subject: Empty records and excess paragraphs
Summary: Better short references solve the problem
Copyright: Erik Naggum, 1992.  Distributed on USENET with permission.
Reply-To: Erik Naggum <enag@ifi.uio.no>
Organization: Naggum Software, Oslo, Norway
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 05:05:47 GMT
Originator: enag@gyda.ifi.uio.no

It may be, as Mark Fussell has implicitly indicated, that the well
known mapping from "empty record" to paragraph start, as expressed in
SGML below, is too simple and leads to unwanted paragraphs in text
when used by inexperienced users, and even perhaps by experienced
users alike.

	<!ELEMENT  body		- O	(p...)>
	<!ELEMENT  p		- O	(...)>
	<!ENTITY   p.s		STARTTAG "p">
	<!SHORTREF body
		"&#RS;&#RE;"	p.s
	>
	<!USEMAP   body body>

Problems:
- a "blank record" (a record consisting only of blanks) would not be
  interpreted as a paragraph start, and
- _n_ (n > 1) consecutive "empty records" would be interpreted as
  (n-1) empty paragraphs.

Slightly more elaborate short reference maps will solve both of these
problems, and not interfere with other tags, either.

We're capitalizing on the rule that white space in element content is
recognized as markup (production 26, element content [320:10]), and
ignored, and the rule that only the longest short reference delimiter
is recognized (9.6.4, [362:12]) in mixed content (production 25, mixed
content [320:6])

	<!DOCTYPE  body [
	<!ELEMENT  body		- O	(p+)>
	<!ELEMENT  p		O O	(#PCDATA)>

	<!ENTITY   p.s		STARTTAG "p">
	<!ENTITY   p.e		ENDTAG   "p">

	<!ENTITY % p.s "&#RS;B">

	<!SHORTREF body
		"%p.s"		p.s
	>
	<!USEMAP   body body>

	<!SHORTREF p
		"&#RS;&#RE;"	p.e
		"&#RS;B&#RE;"	p.e
	>
	<!USEMAP   p p>
	]>

A paragraph is started only when a record (line) contains leading
blank(s), and are separated by an (apparently) empty record.

There is one possible problem: A paragraph element will not be started
if text immediately follows record start in the body element (e.g. the
sequence "&#RE;&#RS;x", where x is not a blank or record end).  This
is what we want if x is (part of) a delimiter-in-context for, say, a
start-tag.  This may yield confusing error messages if text is
entered, since it will then be interpreted to start whatever
contextually required element is then, and an
alternative solution may be better: changing the short reference to
the paragraph start to a record start, or, in SGML:

	<!ENTITY % p.s "%#RS;">

This will produce empty paragraphs when another tag is following the
paragraph, but the tag can be preceded with one or more blanks to
inhibit recognition of the short reference delimiter "&#RS;".  These
blanks will be interpreted as markup, anyway.

Best regards,
</Erik>
--
Erik Naggum       |  +47-295-0313     |  ISO 8879 SGML     |  Memento,
Naggum Software   |                   |  DIS 10744 HyTime  |  terrigena.
Boks 1570, Vika   | <erik@naggum.no>  |  JTC 1/SC 18/WG 8  |  Memento,
0118 OSLO, NORWAY | <enag@ifi.uio.no> |  SGML UG SIGhyper  |  vita brevis.
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
From: mskuhn@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Markus Kuhn)
Subject: HyTime status?
Organization: CSD., University of Erlangen, Germany
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:43:07 GMT

In a recent Communications of the ACM article about HyTime (a Hypertext/
Hypermedia extension to SGML) I read that it will become a final ISO
standard in April. Does anybody know more about what is going on with
HyTime? (My favorite indicator, Erik Naggum's .signature still says DIS :-)

Markus

---
Markus Kuhn, Computer Science student -=-=- University of Erlangen, Germany
Internet: mskuhn@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de  |  X.500 entry available
Don't worry over what other people are thinking about you. ----------------
---------- They're too busy worrying over what you are thinking about them.
From: pgh@bnr.co.uk (Peter Hamer)
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject: Potential user seeks advice.
Date: 14 Apr 92 10:32:44 GMT
Reply-To: pgh@bnr.co.uk (Peter Hamer)
Organization: BNR Europe Limited, London Road, Harlow, Essex, GB

I have only just realised that I might have an application for SGML, and  
found this group yesterday. So please excuse the basic questions.

a) Is there a frequently-asked-questions posting/file for this group?

b) Is there an ftp site in the UK [or better yet a mail-server]?

c) What PD tools are available, and what do they do? [UN*X and/or MSDOS]

d) What are good books, especially on tag reduction techniques and idioms.

Now the REAL question, should I use SGML? In particular, can I afford the
start-up costs on a one-off project?

BACKGROUND

I am drafting a standard for ECMA. It will have two concrete forms. Firstly
as a printed document, with strong structure, embedded C++ code fragments 
[prettyprinted and with stylised use of roman/bold/italic fonts], several
indicies and lots of cross-referencing. Secondly as a header file, containing
consolidated code fragments. Additional concrete forms may be desirable in
the future.

After a first attempt using a LaTeX based markup, I feel that something 
better is needed. Not least because I want structural errors to be identified
and flagged as such.

I had intended to (and may still) develop my own markup scheme and write
converters for markup->LaTeX_document and markup->source_code conversions.
Using NewYacc (a source to source translator tool) this does not look too
difficult.

I now wonder what SGML (as opposed to structural markup) can do for me. The
pros and cons seem to be --

+ adopting an accepted standard (but not one used locally)
- yet another learning curve (for a language and the support tools)
+ SGML has tool support [?]
- writing my own converter uses tools I know fairly well, which seem to be more
  than adequate for the task
- SGML appears to support a more restricted input grammar than Yacc-based tools
   - rigorous markup has far too many markups for comfort
   + tag minimisation techniques can reduce this greatly
   - tag minimisation is tricky/idiomatic and possibly more limited than I 
     would like even in skilled hands (I need to be able to recognise C++
     method declarations and their constituent parts, preferably with no
     obvious markup).
- it is far from obvious that anybody else who might get involved would be
  familiar with SGML, while several would have some Yacc experience.

So -- should I get interested in SGML or go my own way? For general document
preparation my company is mainly WYSIWYG (Framemaker) rather than markup.

Regards, Peter
From: jbm@hal.com (Brad Might)
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject: enities declared before use
Date: 17 Apr 92 15:14:56 GMT
Organization: HaL Computer Systems
Originator: jbm@infinity

in 9.4.4.1 Applicable Entity Declaration

"NOTE -- The following requirements apply to entity names
used in the value of genteral entity name and general entity name list
attributes, as well as to named entity references.

Before an entity name can be used, it must be declared by an entity
declaration in all applicable DTDs, ..."

The Question is:

given 1 dtd, and given that all parameter entities are defined in it,
does a parameter entity declaration have to physically appear in the
file before it is used, or can it be anywhere in the dtd ?

thanks, 

brad

-- 
- standard disclaimers apply -
jbm@hal.com (Brad Might)                                
HaL Computer Systems - (512)794-2855                    
8920 Business Park Dr. Suite 300 Austin, Texas 78759
From: killian@galvia.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject: Re: Limerick Markup
Date: 7 Apr 92 08:17:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: rdg.1992Apr7.081737.3479
Reply-To: killian@galvia.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

Dr Kimber,

	  strictly speaking the last two lines of your second 'Limerick' should
be coded as a single line:

'And returned on the previous night</poetry>'

	  Your coding included an 'RS' before the 'poetry' endtag that would result in an empty 'line' element:

'</line><line></line></poetry>'
 ^      ^     ^      ^
 |      |     |      |
 |      |     |      explicitly entered
 |      |     implied by 'poetry' endtag
 |      entered as an 'RS' shortref
 implied by 'line' endtag

Regards,
	Aidan Killian
From: stephen@estragon.uchicago.edu (Stephen P Spackman)
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject: Re: explicit link and limericks
Date: 12 Apr 92 01:49:04 GMT
Organization: University of Chicago CILS

In article <23107C@erik.naggum.no> erik@naggum.no (Erik Naggum) writes:
|Eliot Kimber <DRMACRO@RALVM13.VNET.IBM.COM> writes:
||
||   In other words, with Erik's content model driving an editor, I
||   cannot create an invalid limerick.
|
|Uh, that's a little optimistic, I think.  The rules for valid
|limericks are quite elaborate, and they can't be expressed in SGML.
|(How do you express the idea of "rhyme" entirely in SGML?)

There was a young man of St Bees
Who was stung on the arm by a wasp
    When asked, "Does it hurt?"
    He replied, "No it doesn't;
I'm so glad it wasn't a hornet!"

- W.S. Gilbert, I think.

||   I've come to realize that one of the most powerful aspects of SGML
||   is that it enables the creation of very specialized applications
||   (like Erik's) that can provide very precise description of
||   structures, yet it is easy (often trivially easy) to write
||   processing programs to translate precise, application-specific
||   tags into general tags.

|Why write processing programs to do this, when all you need is a
|parser capable of EXPLICIT LINKs?  (He asked pointedly.)  If we use
|some general document type and have processing capability for "poems"
|consisting of "lines", we can map "limerick" to "poem" and "line1" and
|"line2" both to "line".

Suddenly I'm interested in SGML....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
stephen p spackman         Center for Information and Language Studies
stephen@estragon.uchicago.edu                    University of Chicago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
From: stephens@galvia.enet.dec.com (Patrick Stephens)
Subject: Re: Digital Equipment Corporation's SGML Toolchest
Reply-To: stephens@galvia.enet.dec.com (Patrick Stephens)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Galway, Ireland
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 07:51:59 GMT

From the article on "Digital Equipment Corporation's SGML Toolchest"...

>                           SGML Toolchest, Release 1.0
>                                 Solution Tool
>                         Digital Equipment Corporation
>                             Maynard, Massachusetts
...
> Contact Felim O'Neill for further details.
> Felim O'Neill
> Product Manager
> Email: foneill@com.dec.enet.galvia

This email address is incorrect. Use foneill@galvia.enet.dec.com
From: killian@galvia.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject: Re: Simple Content Model Group Question
Keywords: Inclusive Or, Exclusive Or
Date: 16 Apr 92 09:06:05 GMT
Reply-To: killian@galvia.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

...
> <!ELEMENT AA - - (BB | CC | (BB & CC))>
...
As a previous reply has noted, the above content model is considered ambiguous
in SGML. SGML insists on validating the content model without lookahead thus,
on finding a BB element as the first content of AA, the parser cannot be sure
if it is to satisfy the first or the third entry in the OR group.

You could code the model as follows:
<!ELEMENT AA - - ((BB, CC?) | (CC, BB?))>
this appears to provide the desired results while being unambiguous (in SGML
terms). Obviously if there were many more than two elements in the model then
the solution could be much larger.

Regards,
	Aidan
From: al@cs.brown.edu (Andre Lehovich)
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject: Re: RTF, PSGML, and a question.
Date: 10 Apr 1992 21:45:08 GMT
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: cslab9e.cs.brown.edu

In article <9APR199211302607@adpdp2.lanl.gov> 108101@adpdp2.lanl.gov (108101) writes:
>I need to translate Microsoft RTF text files into ascii files that can be
>displayed on vt100 terminals and printed on very simple dot matrix printers.
>Does anyone know of a translators/reformatters? 
>
>Perry
>sandoval_perry@allin1.adpdp2.lanl.gov

Microsoft Word for the Macintosh or Windows will do what you want.
Load in the RTF document, then use Save-As to save your document as a
text file.  Unfortunately, Word 4.0 does not understand SGML (haven't
yet played with 5.0, but I don't think it does it either).

--al
Andre_Lehovich@brown.edu
From: DRMACRO@RALVM13.VNET.IBM.COM ("Dr. "Eliot Kimber" Macro")
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject: Limericks
Date: 13 Apr 92 13:22:09 GMT

Erik Nagum writes:

|Eliot Kimber <DRMACRO@RALVM13.VNET.IBM.COM> writes:
||
||   In other words, with Erik's content model driving an editor, I
||   cannot create an invalid limerick.
|
|Uh, that's a little optimistic, I think.  The rules for valid
|limericks are quite elaborate, and they can't be expressed in SGML.

Jeepers Erik, cut me a little slack, huh? :-)  Of course I meant
"valid to the degree that SGML is capable of enforcing it."

|Why write processing programs to do this, when all you need is a
|parser capable of EXPLICIT LINKs?  (He asked pointedly.)  If we use
|some general document type and have processing capability for "poems"
|consisting of "lines", we can map "limerick" to "poem" and "line1" and
|"line2" both to "line".

I have not yet come to understand how the LINK features of SGML work.
Like Erik, I have not, until recently, had a parser available that
supports links, so I couldn't work with them and thus put off learning links.
I don't at this point understand the full implication of Erik's question,
but it's clear that LINK has power that I should not have ignored.
I think it's time to read Tutorial D again....

Eliot Kimber                      Internet:  drmacro@ralvm13.vnet.ibm.com
Dept E14/B500                     IBMMAIL:   USIB2DK9@IBMMAIL
Network Programs Information Development     Phone: 1-919-543-7091
IBM Corporation
Research Triangle Park, NC 27709
From: harbo@laurel.euromath.dk (Klaus Harbo)
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject: Re: Archive receipts from the comp.text.sgml archive
Date: 5 Apr 92 17:47:07 GMT
Organization: Euromath Center, University of Copenhagen


In article <23100D@erik.naggum.no> erik@naggum.no (Erik Naggum) writes:

>    News is not a reliable transmission medium, as we probably all know,
>    but since I think this newsgroups is so important I want to archive
>    all of it,

Agreed.

May I suggest that you consider WAIS access to the archive? - That
would be really useful when you want find info on a particular
subject...

Regards,

Klaus.
--
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|  Klaus Harbo                   |                                         |
|  Euromath Center   (EmC)       | e-mail:               harbo@euromath.dk |  
|  Universitetsparken 5          | phone:           +45 3135 3133 ext. 413 | 
|  DK-2100 Copenhagen            | fax:                      +45 3135 0427 |
\--------------------------------------------------------------------------/
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
From: sunthej@alleg.edu (Jake)
Newsgroups: comp.text
Subject: Simple Tex question
Date: 7 Apr 92 15:54:44 GMT
Organization: Allegheny College

Hello.

	I was wondering if someone could tell me how to read a .tex file  
on a NeXT.  I know there's a reader for dvi file (Apparently made by  
tex), but nothing for a .tex.  Please don't flame for this message, you  
once didn't know anything about tex either :)

						Jake
EMAIL:sunthej@alleg.edu
From: francis@atmos.cse.ogi.edu (Francis Moraes)
Newsgroups: comp.text
Subject: A bug in -mm and a question concerning centering figures with -me
Date: 9 Apr 92 14:51:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.36066
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute, Atmospheric Sciences, Beaverton, OR

First the bug:

I am using -mm with troff under AIX 3.1.  -mm does not keep track of vertical space properly.
This causes footers to disappear and the text to be printed too far down the page when an
equation is on a page. Has anyone else had this problem? This is not a problem with -me
which leads me to my second question.

Centering Figures with -me:

I would like to center a pic generated picture on the page (horizontally). Using the .(c
command does not work, it doesn't center the picture as a single piece as the manual says
it will.

Thanks for any help.

francis@atmos.ogi.edu
Xref: sparky comp.text:728 comp.text.desktop:268
From: ttvvtt@mixcom.com (Donald Amby)
Newsgroups: comp.text,comp.text.desktop
Subject: What WordPerfect<-->? conversion tools exist?
Keywords: WordPerfect,text
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:01:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: mixcom.1992Apr15.150142.25155
Followup-To: comp.text
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.

We make use of WordPerfect on MS-DOS and VMS for development of some of our
documentation.  We also do software development on VMS and various UNIX
platforms.

What tools are available to convert from text processor (roff, RUNOFF,
TeX, LaTeX, VAX DOCUMENT) formats (input or output) to WordPerfect?

What tools can do the reverse (WordPerfect to text processor)?

-- 
Donald E. Amby
    don@amby.mixcom.com   (for short mail)        (414)797-6713 (voice)
    amby@eisner.decus.org (for lengthy mail)      (414)797-6533 (FAX)
    Harnischfeger Engineers, Inc., P.O.Box 1512, Milwaukee, WI 53201-1512
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look,comp.sys.sun.apps,comp.sys.sun.admin
From: nick@ee.ryerson.ca (Nick Colonello)
Subject: Re: Last Plea: XDM on OpenWindows V3
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute, Toronto
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 14:24:11 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.111159.20737@ra.msstate.edu> cass@arrakis.uucp (Cass Everitt) writes:
>I have a quick question if you guys are having no trouble with your
>xdm. When you run xdm, how do you keep it from logging messages to the
>console? Actually I have two questions. Is there any way to escape from
>xdm in order to run another windowing system? I still have some people
>that want to use sunview, and I have to cater to everyone.
>
I have done this to run avaitor (it is amazing the extents I will go through
to get a good game going).
I no longer have the exact info but this is what I remeber.

1) In the Xstartup (if it is appropriate) send a SIGSTOP to the X server.
   You must do it here because the server is running as root.

2) In the users (or system) xsession start up whatever window system you want
   ie. sunview

3) In the Xreset send a SIGCONT to the X server.

The only tricky part is how to figure out whether to SIGSTOP the X server.
For me it was easy as I just checked if $USER was aviator.

Again this is all from memory so I may have missed something.
-- 
#define NAME  "Nick Colonello"
#define WHERE "Ryerson Polytechnical Institute    Phone: 1 416 979-5000 x6102"
#define MAIL  "nick@ee.ryerson.ca or ryelect!nick"
#include <feeble-attempt-at-humour.h>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Distribution: world
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 12:09:19 EDT
From: fgreco@fis1026.shearson.com (Frank Greco)
Subject: Re: Colour problems under Motif and OW3

> 	I'm hoping someone out there may be able to help me solve this problem.
> Okay, when using answerbook ( or for that matter helpview or pageview ) running
> under motif and openwindows 3 occasionally the colour combinations of foreground
[deleted]

Have you tried starting up xnews with the "-cubesize small" option?
(see man on xnews); if you have -favorstatic turned on, then turn it
off.  Or did you try locking the colormap (ol[v]wm has a way of doing
this, I'm not sure if mwm does).

Frank G.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Distribution: world
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 21:21:47 PDT
From: sinan@Mtesol.boeing.com (Sinan Karasu)
Subject: Concurrent port


 I am trying to port xview3 to a concurrent machine with X11R4.
I am having problems with make utility.

 BUILDINCTOP gets defined twice

Makefile:      BUILDINCTOP = ..
Makefile:            BUILDINCTOP = ../../..

once from Project.tmpl and again from XView.cf....
first one is wrong , second one is correct... How do I fix it ???
From: haberman@s8.msi.umn.edu (Joe Habermann)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: splitting a view at a multiple of PIXELS_PER_UNIT
Summary: How do you force a split at a multiple of SCROLLBAR_PIXELS_PER_UNIT?
Keywords: split scrollbar view XView 3.0
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:06:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: msi.haberman.703436762
Organization: University of Minnesota

I have a scrollbar that I have created with:

#define UNITLENGTH (14)
	sbar = xv_create(canvas, SCROLLBAR,
			SCROLLBAR_DIRECTION, SCROLLBAR_VERTICAL,
			SCROLLBAR_SPLITTABLE, TRUE,
			SCROLLBAR_PIXELS_PER_UNIT, UNITLENGTH,
			NULL);

I would like to have the scrollbar always split at an even multiple
of SCROLLBAR_PIXELS_PER_UNIT so that each view has no partially
visable units.  I've noticed that TEXTSW and TTYSW objects do this 
automatically so that you always see entire lines of text within a 
view.

I have R'd the FM but I just can't find this.  Can anyone shed some
light? 

Thanks,

Joe Habermann