HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sp@mirabeau.osf.fr (Simon Patience)
Subject: Re: french
Reply-To: sp@mirabeau.osf.fr (Simon Patience)
Organization: OSF Research Institute
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 13:45:18 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.105924.13602@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>,
bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale) writes:
> Welsh rabbit is cheese sauce on toast; 

Isn't that supposed to be Welsh rarebit?

> And Indian
> summer, of course, is still with us--what the British call St.  Martin's
> summer, I think--that sudden snap back to warm weather after fall seems to
> be in full fling. 

Although this British person hasonly ever know it as an Indian Summer.

Simon.

  Simon Patience
  Open Software Foundation			Phone: +33-76-63-48-72
  Research Institute				FAX:   +33-76-51-05-32
  2 Avenue De Vignate				Email: sp@gr.osf.org
  38610 Gieres, France				       uunet!gr.osf.org!sp
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Subject: Re: "This" weekend vs. "Next" weekend
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 12:10:43 GMT

In article 1@wombat.newcastle.edu.au, eepjm@wombat.newcastle.edu.au (Peter Moylan) writes:
>In article <oeQibGu00awAQ6jEwK@andrew.cmu.edu>, "Benjamin D. Lukoff" <bl2m+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>> I always thought everyone understood the distinction between 'this'
>> weekend, meaning this upcoming weekend, and 'next' weekend, meaning the
>> one after that. Is that really used more often by non-American speakers?
>
>To this non-American, "this weekend" means the coming weekend, and
>"next weekend" is ambiguous.  "Last weekend" is also ambiguous, but
>only because today is a Monday.  Thinking about this, I've just
>realised that to me "this Saturday" is ambiguous when I'm speaking
>on a Monday, but that "this weekend" almost always refers to the future.
>(Exception: "What did you do this weekend?")
>
>Usually I try to avoid the ambiguity by using phrases like:
>     this coming Saturday (the very next Saturday to arrive)
>     Saturday week        (about a week and a half from now)
>Is the construct "Saturday week" used outside Australia?

"Saturday week" seems to be a Briticism, not common in my experience in the US.
There is always "Saturday, next week" or "Saturday in ten days" (which
may be a back-formation from "Samstag in zehn Tagen").

As for "this" vs "next" weekend, there seems to be a shift in meaning 
sometime during the week.  On Monday, if somebody asks me "What did you do
this weekend?" I understand it to mean the preceeding Sat & Sun.  On Thurs, 
the question "Any plans for this weekend?" mean the forthcoming Sat & Sun.
Both questions are clearly marked as to time.

On Monday, asking me "Any plans for next weekend" means the coming Sat & Sun.
On Friday, asking the same question seems to clearly imply the following week,
since there is a "this weekend" at hand.  On Thursday, I think there is a 
shift (probably syncronized with NBS in Colorado :-)).  

Thinking about it a bit, the problem seems to be an ambiguity in the meaning
of next.  One meaning is "immediately following", the other meaning is
"not the present one, but the one after".  Which results in my giving
directions "Don't turn at the next street, but do turn left at the next one".

---
Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141

Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar Mukund Mirashi)
Subject: Re: English English versus *American* English
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 04:08:53 GMT

In article <cummings.712445041@milton> cummings@milton.u.washington.edu (Michael Cummings) writes:
>mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar Mukund Mirashi) writes:
>
>>If that one was a joke --->   ha ha ha.....good one Tom!
>
>	If you don't want people to think you dislike Americans, you
>shouldn't refer to us as a "bunch of idiots," as you did in you first post.
>I believe you didn't really mean that the way it sounded, but it's still
>not very tactful.
>
>-- 
>Mike Cummings
>

          Oh..C'mon....(as you Americans say --> "Gimme a break!"). I was
just totally pissed off at the incident concerning my friend and his
professor. You are most intelligent in all other aspects, except for
your stubborn insistence to use corrupted spellings, and call them the
"right" and "correct" ones.....
          Maybe someday you'll see the light....

Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Slagle)
Subject: Re: English English versus *American* English
Reply-To: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com
In-reply-to: mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu's message of Thu, 30 Jul 1992 04:53:04 GMT
Organization: You wouldn't ask this if you'd seen my desk.
	<1992Jul29.195337.22793@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>
	<1992Jul29.235645.2899@convex.com>
	<1992Jul30.045304.28514@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 22:42:37 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.045304.28514@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>, mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar Mukund Mirashi) writes:

> Ha ha ha...that's a laugh...you pick up ONE word and
> claim that you are native speakers, just because the English and the
> Americans pronounce it the same way?? Heh heh heh....bless my soul!
> I too pronounce it the same way, because the English who came to my
> country pronounced it the same way too! But I repeat, neither me nor
> you are native speakers of the language.....simply poor facsmisiles.

Now durn it, that do it, them's fightin wurds.  I ain't no
facsmisiles.  I never touched that boogin sheep.  Hell fire,
I ain't even been out ta the barn this mornin.  You come on 
over ta hyeer an say that ta mah face son'n'I'll tan yer lyin
hide good an proper fer ya.
--
----
Mark E. Slagle                                 PO Box 61059
slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com                       Sunnyvale, CA   94088
408-756-0895                                   USA
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: johnston@fys.ruu.nl (Helen Johnston)
Subject: Re: "This" weekend vs. "Next" weekend
Organization: Physics Department, University of Utrecht,  The Netherlands
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 08:45:12 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.141850.1@wombat.newcastle.edu.au>, eepjm@wombat.newcastle.edu.au 
  (Peter Moylan) writes:

|> 
|> Usually I try to avoid the ambiguity by using phrases like:
|>      this coming Saturday (the very next Saturday to arrive)
|>      Saturday week        (about a week and a half from now)
|> Is the construct "Saturday week" used outside Australia?

No - I quickly discovered I had to stop using that one, as it caused far too many
furrowed brows. Pity, because it's a useful construction!

-- 
Helen Johnston       | Astronomye is an harde thynge and yvel forto knowe.
johnston@fys.ruu.nl  |      -- William Langland, Piers the Plowman
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: baron@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Dennis Baron)
Subject: Re: English English versus *American* English
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 15:26:34 GMT

English in India is as different from English in England as American
English is.  Any claim to the contrary, even from one who may be
England-returned, is wrong.  Braj Kachru has written extensively
on the nature of South Asian English.  Indian English differs in
phonology, syntax, vocabulary, and idiom from the other World
Englishes, is neither more nor less correct than its peers, and
is both extensively used and influential locally and internationally.

The Indian community in the US adapts to American English in the
second generation as quickly as any other immigrant group has done.
The same, btw, is true for Pakistanis and Nigerians, not to mention
Australians, New Zealanders, and Canadians.  

Dennis (Denesh) Baron


-- 
Dennis Baron                                         debaron@uiuc.edu 
University of Illinois at Urbana                     217-333-2392
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: cochran@spam.rtp.dg.com (A. Jing Hippy)
Subject: Re: Whence "Steal Thunder"?
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 12:16:36 GMT
Organization: A Suffusion of Yellow

In article <sav.711785360@nanette>, sav@nanette.sni.de (Dr.Savory) writes:
|> In <168269DE6.DSTEPHEN@cmsa.gmr.com> DSTEPHEN@cmsa.gmr.com writes:
|> 
|> >In article <sav.711190731@nanette>
|> >sav@nanette.sni.de (Dr.Savory) writes:
|> >>>What is the origin of the phrase "To steal one's thunder", e.g., to make
|> >>>Terry Carroll
|> >>>"Then they came upon The Thing."
|> >>I believ (Spelling courtesy D.Quayle =B-) that it was originally  a  german
|> >>expression  used  by musketeers relating to their front-loading blackpowder
|> >>rifles. "Thunder" was originally "Zunder", ie the fuse.  Thus stealing your
|> 
|> >I thought it was a reference to a Norse myth in which some geezer steals
|> >Thor's thunder hammer.
|> 
|> Yes. Of course you are right. In the myth (the prose Edda, actually) Loki
|> (Norse role-player for Satan) stole Mjollnir (Thors thunder hammer as you
|> call it). I was just trying to see how gullible the net is, by suggesting
|> an entirely plausible - but wrong - etymology   =B-)

I'm not so sure.  By sheer coincidence, I ran across this last night while
looking up something else.

According to "Dictionary of Quotations and Proverbs",  the phrase 
"to steal one's thunder" was coined by John Dennis, an English
theatre critic (1657 - 6 Jan., 1734).  Upon hearing his own sound
effects used in another play, he "They will not let my play run, and 
yet they steal my thunder!"

+--------------------------------------------------+
|Dave Cochran, Data General Corporation, RTP, NC   |
|cochran@dg-rtp.dg.com                             |
+--------------------------------------------------+
|If I owned Texas and Hell, I would rent out Texas |
|and live in Hell. - Philip Henry Sheridan         |
+--------------------------------------------------+
From: clauct@uts.uni-c.dk (Claus Tondering)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: For instance/for example
Date: 28 Jul 92 21:25:44 GMT
Organization: myself

I am not a native speaker of English. I have been trying with the
help of various dictionaries to find out what the difference between
"for instance" and "for example" is, all to no avail. The Oxford
Advanced Learner's Dictionary of Current English explains "for instance"
as "by way of example", so that does not make me any wiser. Nor
do other dictionaries help me.

Is there any difference?

Claus Tondering
Lyngby, Denmark
E-mail: clauct@uts.uni-c.dk
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: 11454725@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (JOLAN EVANS)
Subject: Use of "dereference"
Summary: use of "dereference"
Keywords: "dereference"
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, Monash University 
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 06:18:28 GMT

Use of "derefence"

	In one of my first year computer science subjects my lecturer uses 
the word dereference. From the context in which he uses it, to my best 
knowledge, it means "given a reference to a variable x, obtain its value". I 
can not find it in The Macquarie Dictionary ( a relatively large Australian 
English language dictionary), Revised Edition or the Hamlyn Dictionary of 
Computing. The Macquarie Dictionary, Revised Edition is a little dated do I 
was wondering if it's in any larger and/or more up to date dictionary/
dictionary of computing. My immeditate thoughts as to the etymology if it is 
a recently invented word is the contraction of "decode" and "reference". Any 
thoughts?

	Although it is relatively trivial I like to know the precise 
meaning of the jargon used in computer science. It certainly helps in 
understanding the sometime quite abstract concepts that abound in it.
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: el nino
Date: 26 Jul 92 11:36:53 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster

In article <gate.R1sDoB1w164w@buscard.fidonet.org>, dand@buscard.fidonet.org (Dan Davidson) writes:
> 
>  -=> Quoting Dennis Baron to All <=-
> 
>  DB> of countering noise in the communication system.  One of the
>  DB> most striking redundancies is the preservation of the distinct
>  DB> singular present tense verb form for the 3rd person.  All of
> 
> Actually, "thou" was singular and "you" was plural.
> 
Er, Dan, "thou" and "you" are *2nd* person pronouns. Dennis was referring to
the fact that English has a seperate verb form for the pronouns "he", "she",
"it".

-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
From: dand@buscard.fidonet.org (Dan Davidson)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: i'm in a comma.      
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 16:20:17 EDT
X-Maildoor: WaflineMail 1.00r

 -=> Quoting Detlef Lannert to All <=-

 DL> Of course the learner (of German) is given an obvious ;-) reason for
 DL> that rule: It avoids ambiguities! Example:

 DL> I will have a minestrone, my favourite dish, and a pint of lager.

 DL> According to the German rule, "my favourite dish" is attributive to
 DL> the minestrone (otherwise there would be *no* "," before the "and"),
 DL> and  thus I'll order just two things. 

 DL> According to the "comma=yes"-rule, which seems to be preferred by
 DL> English grammar books (and by Tom), my favourite dish might be
 DL> something else (pizza perhaps), and thus the soup is only a starter.

 DL> So how would you avoid this ambiguity? Or isn't it one at all?

Were I talking to the waiter, and if I felt compelled to make such an
irrelevant comment to a waiter, I'd isolate that comment in
parentheses.  But, if I were talking to a waitress, I'd omit a clause
like "my favorite dish", lest she think I'm referring to her.

                                                      -- Dan --

--- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
                                                                                          
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: peter.churchill@rose.com (peter churchill)
Subject: "Jury-rigged"
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 14:13:25 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 07-22-92 01:29

|In article <1992Jul21.162931.27011@Princeton.EDU>, 
amlogan@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Adam M. Logan) writes:
|> In his _Devil's Dictionary_ Ambrose Bierce uses "jury-gods" to mean
|> makeshift gods and religion, which (I believe he says that this is as a 
|> sailor would say) is clearly a derivative of "jury-rig".  Bierce disappeared
|> around 1914, so he couldn't have known about WWI usage.  So this can't
|> come from"jerry".
|> 
|> Adam
|
|It looks like the analogical egg is on MY face.  A quick browse through a few
|dictionaries suggests that the word does indeed predate WWI, with "jury"
|derived possibly from Old French "ajurie" (relief, help).
|
|Herb Stahlke

It looks like Latin may have it again.  I followed your example and 
poked into a couple of dictionaries, the first of which left me as 
much at sea as ever. 

Weekley's _An Etymological Dict. of Modern Eng._ 
spoke enigmatically of only a "jury-mast".
    
    "jury-mast. An obscure naut. witticsm. Cf. synon. F. m t de 
    fortune.
        'I was left all alone, and let me drive in the sea five days 
        before I could make my jury-mast.'
                                            (Capt. Thompson, 1592)

Talk about obscure wit...

More helpful was Ciardi's _A Browser's Dict._. He tended to dismiss 
'jury' as a corruption of 'journey' as in repairs made temporarily 
during a journey (esp. to a ship) and suggested it ultimately came 
from L._adjutare_, to help (ADJUTANT), through OF _ajurie_, aid and 
into 16th cent. Eng. with the sense of " 'temporary remedy; field 
expediency'. Commonly but not exclusively nautical."

A rigged jury, it seems, is more commonplace today, but another matter
altogether.

Regards: *PC*  <peter.churchill@rose.com> -Toronto, Canada.
---
   RR 1.60 P001013: Never do tomorrow what you can put off today.
   RoseMail 1.70: RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney)
Subject: Re: Words that peeve me
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:42:34 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Windows/DOS Users Ed Group

In article <1992Jul22.043034.586@mala.bc.ca> epp@mala.bc.ca (Lorne Epp) writes:
>gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes:
>
>> Contributions are encouraged.
>
>"Roast beef with au jus" in menus.  In cafeterias the server will ask,
>"Would you like au jus with that?"
>

And he or she will pronounce it "ah juice."

-- 
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
	"Only the mediocre can always be at their best." -- Mencken
For an average time write uunet!microsoft!frankm
For an even more mediocre time try frankm@microsoft.com
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: m1b@rayssd.ssd.ray.com (Barone)
Subject: Re: Words that peeve me
Summary: redundancy
Organization: Raytheon Submarine Signal Division, Portsmouth, RI
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:40:12 GMT

In article <1992Jul15.030721.2058@news.columbia.edu>
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes:
> ATM machine
> ...
> 
> Contributions are encouraged.

Interstate I-<number>
Rio <whatever> River
-- 
Joe Barone
m1b@rayssd.ssd.ray.com
"Let's play peek-a-boo..."
		"Help! Help! I can't see you! I've been abandoned!
		Father! Father!  Oh, what a cruel, cruel game!"
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: dant@techbook.com (Dan Tilque)
Subject: where it's at (was Re: Ex-presidents' titles and adverbs of location
Organization: Pseudopolis Yard
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 09:01:28 GMT

lange@lmsc.lockheed.com writes:

>sentence "Downtown's where it's at" be the best _rhetorically_ for an
>audience of "hippies"? Besides, this turn of phrase is more mainstream
>than you suppose.

I believe "where it's at" originated with the beatniks, not the
hippies.  I seem to remember hearing it in the early 60's (which
predates the hippies) and I think it was several years old then.  But
when I first heard it, it was definitely not mainstream.

---
Dan Tilque    --     dant@techbook.com
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Slagle)
Subject: Re: English English versus *American* English
Reply-To: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com
In-reply-to: cummings@milton.u.washington.edu's message of Thu, 30 Jul 1992 05:59:53 GMT
Organization: You wouldn't ask this if you'd seen my desk.
	<1992Jul29.195337.22793@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>
	<cummings.712443189@milton>
	<1992Jul30.040428.24810@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>
	<cummings.712475993@milton>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 22:52:44 GMT

In article <cummings.712475993@milton>, cummings@milton.u.washington.edu (Michael Cummings) writes:

> Again, you assert without providing a convincing reason, then you
> label me stubborn.  Perhaps you don't see my point:  A language has no
> "holders."  Language is public domain, get it?  

Nope, you need an explicit renunciation of copyright for 
it to enter the public domain ... what ... this isn't 
misc.legal.computing? ... oh ... well, never mind ...
--
----
Mark E. Slagle                                 PO Box 61059
slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com                       Sunnyvale, CA   94088
408-756-0895                                   USA
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Slagle)
Subject: Re: Ex-presidents' titles and adverbs of location
Reply-To: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com
In-reply-to: sav@nanette.sni.de's message of 23 Jul 92 06:02:36 GMT
Organization: You wouldn't ask this if you'd seen my desk.
	<1992Jul16.185041.2914@desire.wright.edu>
	<1992Jul17.024432.4139@news.eng.convex.com>
	<1992Jul17.150134.2935@desire.wright.edu> <sav.711871356@nanette>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 21:02:33 GMT

First order modifications follow.  Recasting may
be in order in some cases.

In article <sav.711871356@nanette>, sav@nanette.sni.de (Dr.Savory) writes:

> Jane, whose house I was sick at.

Jane, at whose house I was sick.

> The burglary you were caught at.

The burglary at which you were caught.

[Perhaps "at" should be "in", though, since it's an act not
a location.]

> The time I was hurt at, doesn't matter to the insurance company.

The time at which I was hurt doesn't matter...

[no comma is required in either case]

> How's 'at?

On this one, it's not too clear where you're at.
--
----
Mark E. Slagle                                 PO Box 61059
slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com                       Sunnyvale, CA   94088
408-756-0895                                   USA
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Slagle)
Subject: Re: English English versus *American* English
Reply-To: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com
In-reply-to: mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu's message of 28 Jul 92 18:32:22 GMT
Organization: You wouldn't ask this if you'd seen my desk.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 01:53:50 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.183222.20963@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>, mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar Mukund Mirashi) writes:

[...an amazing quantity of prime flamebait...]

If a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, then a very
little knowledge is a very dangerous thing.  
--
----
Mark E. Slagle                                 PO Box 61059
slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com                       Sunnyvale, CA   94088
408-756-0895                                   USA
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: baron@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Dennis Baron)
Subject: gay
Keywords: gay
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:28:32 GMT

The meaning of _gay_ is another example of what happens when
we consult the experts.  According to Merriam-Webster's leading
usage editor, the old and new meanings of gay continue to coexist;
they are always distinguished by context.  According to the Oxford
English Dictionary, the old gay has succumbed forever.

As Johnny Carson used to ask, "Who do you trust?"


-- 
Dennis Baron                                         debaron@uiuc.edu 
University of Illinois at Urbana                     217-333-2392
From: michaeln@cs.uq.oz.au (Bunweasel)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: words that peeve me
Date: 26 Jul 92 14:04:25 GMT
Reply-To: michaeln@cs.uq.oz.au
Organization: Department of Computer Science, The University of Queensland


In article BmwFoB1w164w@buscard.fidonet.org, dand@buscard.fidonet.org (Dan Davidson) writes:
> Then, what do you think of *verbs* such as "finalize", "destruct",
>"conference"... ?

The other two I can live with, but "destruct"?
That's worse than "dundancy".

-m.
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: International English/Englishes
Date: 30 Jul 92 13:12:53 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster

mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar Mukund Mirashi) writes his usual rubbish:
>       Why not follow the spellings (and as far as possible the pronounciations
>   ) of words listed in the O.E.D.? 

Try looking in the Concise OED. You will find some words with a little * sign, 
which means that they are USAmerican words. You will also find some words with a
little || sign, which means that they are British words.

-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.