From: maridai@ecs.comm.mot.com (Marida Ignacio)
Subject:      Funny but deadly
Organization: Motorola Land Mobile Products Sector
Distribution: world
              
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:31:07 GMT

        **************START QUOTES*****************************************                        
        In Article 5502 tito@ocf.berkeley.edu (Tito Domine)                                        
        Subject: Legalization Of The CPP Is Good                                                   
                                                                                                   
        	In Article 6064 of soc.culture.filipino:                                                  
                                                                                                   
        >1. TOTAL AMNESTY: Newly elected Speaker of the House of                                   
        <stuff deleted>                                                                            
                                                                                                   
        >2.  A 2-STEP PLAN: is proposed by De Venecia: 1st) automatic                              
        <stuff deleted>                                                                            
                                                                                                   
        >3. PROBLEM:  One of the problems with both the President's                                
        <stuff deleted>                                                                            
                                                                                                   
        >4.  A LEGALIZED COMMUNIST PARTY:  would not affect those De                               
        <stuff deleted>                                                                            
                                                                                                   
        >5. NO OPPOSITION:  Defense Secretary Renato De Villa, a                                   
        <stuff deleted>                                                                            
                                                                                                   
        	Though way, way overdue, the legalization of the CPP                                      
        will finally assure the left that the incumbent regime is                                  
        serious about peace. It will encourage many sincere and patriotic                          
        people, though misled, to come forward and contribute towards                              
        a better society. First, legalize the CPP and all its organizations,                       
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^                        
        then a full amnesty for political offenses.                                                
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^                                                 
                                                                                                   
        	If this bill passes through Congress, the Left will have                                  
        to show their sincerity by not making unreasonable demands (like                           
        they did in 1985-86) where they asked for complete land reform,                            
        nationalization of industries, etc which could not and cannot                              
        be implemented.                                                                            
                                                                                                   
        	They will have to achieve their goals by the open, democratic                             
        process.                                                                                   
                                                                                                   
        	What do you think  ?                                                                      
                                                                                                   
        tito                                                                                       
                                                                                                   
        *******************************************************                                    
        In Article 5503, GE.TEG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Tito E. Gervacio)                           
        Subject: CPP, Let Them Play Also                                                           
                                                                                                   
        Tukayo on--                                                                                
                                                                                                   
        RE: Legalization Of The CPP Is Good                                                        
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                   
        >      Though way, way overdue, the legalization of  the  CPP                              
        > will  finally  assure the left that the incumbent regime is                              
        > serious about peace. It will  encourage  many  sincere  and                              
        > patriotic  people,  though  misled,  to  come  forward  and                              
        > contribute  towards  a  better society. First, legalize the                              
        > CPP and all its organizations,  then  a  full  amnesty  for                              
        > political offenses.                                                                      
        >                                                                                          
        >      If this bill passes through Congress,  the  Left  will                              
        > have  to  show  their  sincerity by not making unreasonable                              
        > demands (like they did in 1985-86)  where  they  asked  for                              
        > complete  land  reform,  nationalization of industries, etc                              
        > which could not and cannot be implemented.                                               
        >                                                                                          
        >      They will have to achieve their  goals  by  the  open,                              
        > democratic process.                                                                      
        >                                                                                          
        >        What do you think  ?                                                              
        >                                                                                          
        > tito                                                                                     
        >                                                                                          
                                                                                                   
         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~                            
                                                                                                   
        Yes, yes.  It's about time that all ideologies must  have  a                               
        place  in our society.  Let them compete on the same playing                               
        field with other political parties and  interests,  and  let                               
        the  Filipino  masses  find  out  which would best serve the                               
        current and future needs of the country.                                                   
                                                                                                   
                                                  -TEG                                             
                                                                                                   
        *******************************************************                                    
                                                                                                   
        In Article 5507 tjehl@sedona.intel.Com (Timothy Jehl)                                      
        Subject: Re: Legalization Of The CPP Is Good                                               
                                                                                                   
        In article <16ki9gINN6qs@agate.berkeley.edu>, tito@ocf.berkeley.edu (Tito Domine) writes:  
        |>                                                                                         
        |> 	I believe is was in "R.P vs Lava" case that the Phil                                   
        |> SC held that you cannot be charged with "rebellion"/"sedition"                          
        |> and "illegal possession of firearms" at the same time. The                              
        |> logic being that when an individual decides to engage in                                
        |> rebellious activity, it is a matter of course, that arms are                            
        |> borne, stored, used, stolen or purchased. Of course, you                                
        |> have to have arms to rebel.                                                             
        |> 	But the curious thing is that "illegal possession of                                   
        |> firearms" carries with it stiffer penalties than "rebellion                             
        |> or sedition" which are really political offenses.                                       
        |> 	 As soon, as political amnesty is declared, all                                        
        |> political prisoners should go FREE. Prisoners charged with                              
        |> criminal offenses UNRELATED to rebellion/sedition/conspiracy                            
        |> like "rape, etc" should be given due process right away.                                
        |>                                                                                         
           The obvious move, given these conditions, is to not charge people                       
        with rebellion or sedition when there are other available causes.                          
        In the US, many gangsters (and I am NOT attempting to compare the                          
        rebels with gangsters, but to show what clever use of the legal                            
        system can accomplish) were put away not because there was proof                           
        that they killed or stole, but because the government could prove                          
        that they had some income that they hadn't paid tax on.                                    
                                                                                                   
        |> 	Though way, way overdue, the legalization of the CPP                                   
        |> will finally assure the left that the incumbent regime is                               
        |> serious about peace. It will encourage many sincere and patriotic                       
        |> people, though misled, to come forward and contribute towards                           
        |> a better society. First, legalize the CPP and all its organizations,                    
        |> then a full amnesty for political offenses.                                             
        |> 	If this bill passes through Congress, the Left will have                               
        |> to show their sincerity by not making unreasonable demands (like                        
        |> they did in 1985-86) where they asked for complete land reform,                         
        |> nationalization of industries, etc which could not and cannot                           
        |> be implemented.                                                                         
        |> 	They will have to achieve their goals by the open, democratic                          
        |> process.                                                                                
        |>                                                                                         
        |> 	What do you think  ?                                                                   
        |>                                                                                         
        |> tito                                                                                    
                                                                                                   
           Absolutely.  A truly free society has no fear of opposing view points.                  
        It must, of course, oppose any attempt to use force to implement views                     
        not mandated by the populace.  This opposition applies both to opposing                    
        corruption in government and totalitarian rule, but must also be used                      
        to prevent rebellious acts which do not have the mandate of the people.                    
           It seems to me that the ideas of land reform, etc., should be brought                   
        into an open forum in the political arena, and have the merits and problems                
        discussed in a rational manner, and then allow the democratic process                      
        determine the course of the Philippine nation.                                             
                                                                                                   
        Tim                                                                                        
                                                                                                   
        *******************************************************                                    
                                                                                                   
        In Article 5510, mulchand@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Caryl Mulchand)                          
        Subject: Re: CPP, Let Them Play Also                                                       
                                                                                                   
        In article <1992Aug16.164247.1486@morrow.stanford.edu> GE.TEG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Tito E
                                                                                                   
. Gervac>Tukayo on--                                                                               io) writes:
        >                                                                                          
        >RE: Legalization Of The CPP Is Good                                                       
        >                                                                                          
        >                                                                                          
        >>      Though way, way overdue, the legalization of  the  CPP                             
        >> will  finally  assure the left that the incumbent regime is                             
        >> serious about peace. It will  encourage  many  sincere  and                             
        >> patriotic  people,  though  misled,  to  come  forward  and                             
        >> contribute  towards  a  better society. First, legalize the                             
        >> CPP and all its organizations,  then  a  full  amnesty  for                             
        >> political offenses.                                                                     
        >>                                                                                         
        >>      If this bill passes through Congress,  the  Left  will                             
        >> have  to  show  their  sincerity by not making unreasonable                             
        >> demands (like they did in 1985-86)  where  they  asked  for                             
        >> complete  land  reform,  nationalization of industries, etc                             
        >> which could not and cannot be implemented.                                              
        >>                                                                                         
        >>      They will have to achieve their  goals  by  the  open,                             
        >> democratic process.                                                                     
        >>                                                                                         
        >>        What do you think  ?                                                             
        >> tito                                                                                    
        >>                                                                                         
        >                                                                                          
        >                                                                                          
        > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~                           
        >                                                                                          
        >Yes, yes.  It's about time that all ideologies must  have  a                              
        >place  in our society.  Let them compete on the same playing                              
        >field with other political parties and  interests,  and  let                              
        >the  Filipino  masses  find  out  which would best serve the                              
        >current and future needs of the country.                                                  
                                                                                                   
        >                                          -TEG                                            
                                                                                                   
        I believe the proper order is this:                                                        
                                                                                                   
          1.  Legalize Corruption, almost everyone is doing it anyway.                             
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^                                                           
          2.  Legalize CCP, so no one is scared of them.                                           
                                                                                                   
          3.  Let item #1 and #2 clean-up the playing field.                                       
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^                                                           
          4.  Now, its free for all.                                                               
                                                                                                   
        -caryl   :-)                                                                               
                                                                                                   
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        ***  THEN..... IN ANOTHER SUBJECT *********************                                    
                                                                                                   
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        Article 5504 paquin@kahua.esd.sgi.com (Tom Paquin)                                         
        Subject: Re: Gov Allows Return of Marcos Body With Full Military Honors                    
                                                                                                   
        In article <Aug15.003454.39588@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, lagman@CS.ColoState.EDU (annette) 
        |>      It sets a very bad                                                                 
writes: |> 	example of how the powerful can do whatever they want, no                              
        |> 	matter how immoral, and still get away with it.  Are we                                
        |> 	doomed to this type of society forever?                                                
                                                                                                   
        They only get away with it because you let them.  Corruption in public                     
        office is a giant game of chicken, and the lines are drawn mostly by                       
        perceived expectations.                                                                    
                                                                                                   
        You get what you settle for. In order to change the status quo,                            
        you must exert the necessary effort and accept the necessary pain.                         
                                                                                                   
        An object of a tyranny is simply to keep the masses convinced that                         
        the tyranny is less painful than the cost of removing the tyranny                          
        would be.  (China is good at this.  Russia used to be.)                                    
                                                                                                   
        History shows again and again, in all lands, that populations                              
        are astonishingly ignorant of their power, and that they foolishly                         
        spend it oppressing themselves and blaming those they keep in power.                       
                                                                                                   
        Occasionally, somebody recognizes otherwise; we did manage to get                          
        rid of Hitler, after all.  But many people had to die for that,                            
        and several nations mortgaged their quality of life for many years.                        
        Without strong conviction, they would refuse.                                              
        You get what you settle for.                                                               
                                                                                                   
        Why should anybody give you any more?  Benevolence?  Hah.                                  
                                                                                                   
        --                                                                                         
                                                                                                   
        		-Tom                                                                                     
        *****                                                                                      
        Opinions are mine, etc.                                                                    
                                                                                                   
        *******************************************************                                    
                                                                                                   
        IN Article 5506                                                                            
        Subject: Re: Gov Allows Return of Marcos Body With Full Military Honors                    
                                                                                                   
        I thought the biggest irony of the year was when Imelda came back home                     
        and ran for president!  But with Ferdinand Marcos' return and burial                       
        with full military HONORS beats Imeldas running for presidency!  This is                   
        the best so far.  Makes me really wonder what they would do next.                          
                                                                                                   
        I don't think "forgive and forget" works in politics (Gabby and Sharon                     
        maybe).  But when people suffers because of their greediness, then it's                    
        a totally different story.Are they out of power?  Might be a question                      
        for the next decade or more!                                                               
                                                                                                   
        Ranny                                                                                      
                                                                                                   
        *******************************************************                                    
                                                                                                   
        Article 5508 tjehl@sedona.intel.Com (Timothy Jehl)                                         
        Subject: Re: Gov Allows Return of Marcos Body With Full Military Honors                    
                                                                                                   
           I surmise that the government is attempting to remove the disposition                   
        of Marcos' body from the political arena.  Somebody high up has obviously                  
        said, "Let's just bury him and get it over with."  Although seemingly                      
        reneging on some "principles", it may be the most pragmatic solution                       
        available.  There will probably be a major effort to minimize news                         
        coverage of the event, and an attempt to turn it into a non-issue.                         
                                                                                                   
        Tim                                                                                        
                                                                                                   
        *******************************************************                                    
                                                                                                   
        Article 5509 dannya@ESD.3Com.COM (Danny Alvendia)                                          
        Subject: Re: Gov Allows Return of Marcos Body With Full Military Honors                    
                                                                                                   
         That is why politics is really very difficult to understand.                              
         Marcos has wronged the nation and yet he will be given military                           
         honors. Walanghiya talaga, baka in a few more years, current leaders                      
         might even think he can be a hero. That would really be a killer.                         
                                                                                                   
         I guess the saying is true no matter what, "Money Talks, Bullshit                         
         Walks, and Everything else Crawls".                                                       
                                                                                                   
        *****************END QUOTES**************************************                          
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                   
The first subject emphasizes legalization of an ideology that killed and
continue to kill humans, kidnapped innocent people, and robbed money and
asked for ransoms.  Legalized all these and everybody is  happy crawling 
in their acquired freedom to do more wrongdoings.

The second subject emphasizes a former ______ who robbed the people of
their money and financial opportunities and I've read a lot of GRRRRRRawl!!!

I wonder who or which is misleading and misled.
I wonder which is more important...

    HUMAN LIFE and DIGNITY

    OR MONEY and FINANCIAL OPPORTUNITIES

Well, it is to easy to speak outloud and decide this or that is good for the
Philippines if one is not DIRECTLY affected by any of the above problems
over there...

*Afterall, regret always comes later when it is too late...then, everybody
washes their hands and disappears...*

So funny, I'm sad.



Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino