HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: paul@hagar.tdd.sj.nec.com (Paul Gordon  x3856)
Subject: Re: New products just seen (armor and aircraft)
Organization: NEC-AM TDD, San Jose, California
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:13:28 GMT

In article <Bxz6xK.38o@da_vinci.it.uswc.uswest.com> rray@lookout.it.uswc.uswest.com (Randy J. Ray) writes:
>Last night at my local club I got to see Tamiya's new T-72M1 in 1/35. This is
>the kit to buy if you want to do a T-72. Detail is phenominal, and according to
>the real buffs, including Tony Englehart of A.E.F. designs, who has numerous
>photos of the T-72, it is almost perfect. Expected price is unknown, probably
>as expensive or more so than their M1A1 with mine plow (which has hit the 
>shelves here in Colorado). Expected availability is anytime in the next 10 days
>to 2 weeks. The kit gives you steel mesh and plastic mesh for engine vent
>covers, scale rope and tubing for fuel tank detailing, and even copper wire to
>put through the "fuel line" so that you can form it to the contours of the
>body.

Thanks for the info. I was about the shell out $60+ on various accurate T72
resin parts i.e. AEF hull, turret, fender paniers, wheels. On the subject of
the M1A1. I got the non-mine plow version a month ago. Does anyone know if
the latest one has a corrected turret - i.e. with the 8 inches of addition 
frontal armor, or is it the same as the earlier version?

>
>Another Japanese company whose name I forget (starts with an 'E', they have one
>photo-etch set out, and it was for armor) will soon have on the shelves a 
>photo-etch metal sheet for the DML 1/72 He 219A-0/7. Very fine detailing on
>this, had a price sticker on it for 1700 Yen, what ever that is in US$. Wish I
>could remember their name.
>
>Randy
>-- 
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Randy J. Ray -- U S WEST IT/CSD                 rray@lookout.it.uswc.uswest.com
>                                                           Phone: (303)595-2852
>"It's not denial. I'm just very selective about the reality I accept." --Calvin
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  Paul

Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
From: smpod@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Subject: Re: Cooper Detail Sets for the Fw 190 in 1/72
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: who knows
Date: 17 Nov 1992 09:42 EDT  

<83778@ut-emx.uucp>, dmonroe@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Darrel Monroe) writes...
> 
>  Cooper Details has just 2 new sets for all you 1/72 scale Luftwaffe modelers
>out there for the Fw 190.  

Do you have prices?
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
From: mcclure@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Subject: Re: South East Asian airforces
Reply-To: mcclure@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: LMSC, Sunnyvale, California
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 19:29:54 GMT

> There is also a decal sheet for the early Siamese air force. 
>Stephen.

Stephen,
   Who makes this decal sheet and does anybody know what hobby stores
in the US might carry it.  I am asking this because I remember an old
article in an Air Enthusiast that covered the Siamese AF.  I am
considering doing a Hawk 75 and a B-10 in Siamese colors.  Any additional
info I can get will be greatly appreciated.
Kent M. McClure
Auto racing afficionado and member of San
Jose IPMS chapter.
My views are what they are, like them or not.
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
From: mew@controls.ccd.harris.com (Mark E. Warthling)
Subject: Re: nice introductory book wanted
Organization: Harris Controls Division
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 21:42:55 GMT


You need to purchase "How to Build Scale Plastic Models" which
is published by the same people who do "Fine Scale Modeler"
Magazine.  An excellent way to get started.  You can probobly
find this and many other helpful items at your local hobby shop.

Mark

Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
From: Joe.Russ <Joe.Russ@mixcom.mixcom.com>
Subject: Re: Using aluminium foil to mimic metal finish
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:12:14 GMT


A number of years ago there was an article in Model Railroader (by
Brian Holtz, I think) on Athearn passenger cars. Perhaps some model
railroader out there knows which issue it was as it explained how to
use aluminum to make better looking Budd cars.
-- 
Joe.Russ@mixcom.com
WISE Div., NMRA
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: South East Asian airforces
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:29:12 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.161920.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk> cebp04@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes:

>Thailand:-  F8F Bearcat by Monogram, decals for
> pre WWII Siam airfirce

No kidding! I thought the F8F was a post-war airplane.



>A lot of the planes used by these airforces are available
> in kit form but there is a lack of detailed information
> and decals to go with them.

Well, why not do it the old fashioned way? Get photographs, 3 views 
etc. and paint the markings in?



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
From: natola@coos.dartmouth.edu (Mark A. Natola)
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: V-2 and support vehicles in HO scale - help
Date: 23 Nov 92 19:22:12 GMT
Organization: D.M.S. Section of Neurology

In article <1992Nov23.140536.15928@cas.org> sdr57@cas.org writes:
>From: sdr57@cas.org
>Subject: V-2 and support vehicles in HO scale - help
>Date: 23 Nov 92 14:05:36 GMT

>I'm undertaking to build a V-2 battery (that's the WWII
>German rocket). I need information on sources for both
>the rockets and the support vehicles (in particular
>the large round tank trailer which I think held the LOX),
>either on kits that might be bought or on references
>containing good pictures and dimensions to allow me to scratch
>build them. I need to work in HO scale (or at least no larger
>than 1/72).

>(I would also appreciate information on other models of WWII
>period rockets in HO scale).

>Thanks in advance.

I think it was Revell that made the V2 in 1:72 scale.  I recently saw it at 
a hobby show for some outrageous price.

Mark
From: tsai@hal.com (Finnegan T. Tsai)
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: New products just seen (armor and aircraft)
Date: 21 Nov 1992 20:21:45 GMT
Organization: HaL Computer Systems
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: molly.hal.com

In article <By0uw4.IJv@da_vinci.it.uswc.uswest.com>, rray@lookout.it.uswc.uswest.com (Randy J. Ray) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov20.001328.9217@sj.nec.com>, paul@hagar.tdd.sj.nec.com (Paul Gordon  x3856) writes:
|> > On the subject of
|> > the M1A1. I got the non-mine plow version a month ago. Does anyone know if
|> > the latest one has a corrected turret - i.e. with the 8 inches of addition 
|> > frontal armor, or is it the same as the earlier version?
|> 
|> Tamiya has announced that the M1A1 with plow will also feature a corrected
|> turret. That is why I have waited so long to buy an M1... I wanted a correct
|> turret without shelling out for resin.
|> 
|> Randy
|> -- 

Don't think so.
I've seen the pictures in some Japanese model magazines. 
Both M1A1 looked like the same. 

I would rather wait for the new DML M1A1 which even has interior details.


-finney
From: hyun@medici.ils.nwu.edu (Seungseok Hyun)
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: nice introductory book wanted
Date: 17 Nov 92 19:17:17 GMT
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]


Hello. I would like to buy some good introductory books on
plastic scale model building. Please send your recommendation via
email. Thank you.

Seungseok Hyun(hyun@ils.nwu.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
From: phm@uw-isdl.ee.washington.edu (Pierre-Henry Marbot)
Subject: Saling boats plans
Organization: Electrical Engineering, University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 02:19:27 GMT

Hello fellow modelers

I would like to build a boat (model) out of plans instead of buying
a kit (it is more fun).
I am having some trouble finding plans ( in France, I could get some
in full-sized boat magazines... even though they were difficult to read).

I am interested in modern sail boat, and especially on the hull shape.
But note, I haven't made up my mind between a catamaran, tri-maran, or
single hulled boat.

Thank you so much for your help.


			Pierre-Henry

P.S. I posted this already, but somehow, I haven't seen it!
From: august@sachsen.uni-dresden.de (August Kurfuerst von Sachsen)
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Using aluminium foil to mimic metal finish
Date: 18 Nov 1992 18:42:02 GMT
Organization: Elector of Saxony Estates GmbH, Pilnitz Palace, Dresden Germany
Distribution: world
Reply-To: august@sachsen.uni-dresden.de
NNTP-Posting-Host: train.ebay.sun.com

Hallo Freunde,

I'm trying something new on my own--using
aluminium foil to simulate a metal skin
on a WWII Japanese fighter aircraft.

I used a REAL thin film of Elmer's glue
and cut pieces of foil and placed them on
top. It looks stunning in the middle of
the piece but toward the edge of it I see
wrinkles. Despite the rivets and panel
lines adding realism to the model, I still
think it could be easier and more realistic.

Does anyone have any recommendation for
adhesive and where can I get a cheap
thinner layer of aluminium? My kitchen-use
aluminium is still too thick to work with.

Your favorite techniques or procedures would
also be helpful...

I will also be flying to California to do
business and will be in San Francisco area.
Please tell me what foil products (adhesives etc.)
are available there and which are the best
hobby shops there.

Danke und Tschuess,

S.K.M. Herr Friedrich August, Kurfuerst von Sachsen, Koenig von Polen



Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
From: mcclure@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Subject: Re: F3000 Wanted
Reply-To: mcclure@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: LMSC, Sunnyvale, California
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 15:21:13 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.215544.10923@hubcap.clemson.edu>, csroach@eng.clemson.edu (Shane Roach) writes:

>I tried posting this a couple of days ago, but apparently the system blinked
>and didn't send it out.  Oh well, take two.
>
>Does anyone know if there are any kits of current F3000 cars available out
>there?  I'm especially interested in Christian Fittipaldi's championship-
>winning Pacific Racing Reynard 91D.  I saw a die-cast model of this car,
>I think in 1/20 scale made by Burago, in a vendor's tent at the Indianapolis
>500 this past May.  I thought about buying it, but the quality of the decals
>left quite a bit to be desired, so I got a couple of t-shirts and a Ferrari
>pin instead.  Does anyone(Tamiya, Hasagawa, Modeler's, whoever) make a kit
>of this car, preferably in 1/20 or 1/24 scale, and where can I get it?
>Thanks,
>Shane Roach 
>csroach@eng.clemson.edu
>
Yes, there are a couple of F3000 kits out there.  I believe that they are
made by Hasegawa, but they are not this season's (but wait they may release
the 1992 cars for the 1993 hobby season).  I believe that the kits are for
the 1991 or even the 1990 season, being a Lola and a Reynard, and I think I
recalaa that they were for both the European F3000 series and the Japanese
F3000 season.  But as to what stores carry them, I would suggest contacting
someone like Discount Hobbies or Accu-Scale (I saw the kits at San Antonio
Hobbies in Mt. View).  By the way, because the manufacturers don't make kits
of the race cars that I am interested in, I have bailed out of building
the plastic kits and gone almost exclusively to 1/43rd scale white metal
and resin kits.  They are definitely more expensive, but it does beat trying
to scratch build them.
PS.  The kits available may actually be for the 1989 season.
Kent M. McClure
Auto racing afficionado and member of San
Jose IPMS chapter.
My views are what they are, like them or not.
Xref: sparky rec.models.railroad:2343 rec.railroad:9014
From: stanyermp@rcwusr.bp.com
Newsgroups: rec.models.railroad,rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Pantograph pickup width Swiss 460
Date: 18 Nov 92 04:07:12 -0600
Organization: BP Research, Cleveland, OH (USA)

In article <1992Nov18.053023.25928@news.uiowa.edu>, jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:

-> I've always been impressed with Swiss catenary, because they
-> seem to make more consistant use of curved catenary than any
-> other place I've been.  That is, when rounding a curve, the
-> catenary wire (or top wire, or support wire) is off to one
-> side, so that it pulls the running wire to the side at every
-> support point.  This keeps the running wire within a few
-> (prototype) centimeters of the centerline of the track, so
-> narrow pickup shoes should pose no problems.
-> 
-> By comparison, most catenary I've seen in the US, or France and
-> Italy, for that matter, has been strung with the support wire
-> directly above the running wire, so that both hang straignt
-> from one lineside support pole to the next.  This leads to
-> deviations of on the order of 10 to 20 cm from the centerline
-> of the track on a curve, and it clearly needs a wider shoe for
-> safe running.
-> 
-> 				Doug Jones
-> 				jones@cs.uiowa.edu
  In the UK British Rail deliberately do not hang their catenary
wire over the centre of the track... rather they try to zig-zag it
from support to support. This is in an attempt to minimize wear on the
pantograph pickups and presumably to prevent grooving taking place
when travelling at high speeds. This of course does have disadvantages:
in high winds the maximium speed of pantograph engines has to be reduced
(sometimes to as low as 70mph) to minimise the risk of de-wiring.

Moral of the tale... study the prototype and dont extrapolate too far: 
you might come off the wires.

Mike Stanyer
BP Exploration
London
Newsgroups: rec.models.railroad
From: rjm@cs.brown.edu (Ralph Marshall)
Subject: Re: Great Model Railroads '92 seen?
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:00:51 GMT

In article <frits.722092810@galaxy> frits@ph.tn.tudelft.nl (Frits Kuijlman) writes:
>In the latest Model Railroader I saw an add for the latest issue of
>the annual Great Model Railroader mag. Has somebody already seen it in
>a bookstore? I can't seem to find it here in holland.
>Thanks,
>    Frits
>-- 

(I think they're actually calling it the 1993 issue...)  It is out,
and seems to have been available on newstands in the US for about a
month.  I had ordered one with my subscription renewal but Kalmbach
seems to have lost everything I sent them (although they did manage to
cash the check - you figure) so I don't know when they sent them to
mail order customers.

The quick review is that for $5 (US) it seems to be a pretty good
deal.  W. Allen McClelland has what sounds like a fascinating layout -
who else has a filled-in turntable pit that actually used to work?!?

Ralph Marshall
rjm@cs.brown.edu


"Whatever you think, you are under no compulsion to broadcast it.
Free speech is a restraint on government, not an incitement to the
citizen."
	Dean Acheson to Harry Truman, regarding attacks on JFK
Newsgroups: rec.models.railroad
From: hanss@microsoft.com (Hans Spiller)
Subject: Re: Info about G Scale
Date: 20 Nov 92 04:43:18 GMT
Organization: self (Although I work for Microsoft)

In article <63950007@hpscit.sc.hp.com> mcghee@hpscit.sc.hp.com wrote:
> 
>   According to the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics.
>  [stuff deleted]  I do not
> have numbers on nickel silver but here is a list other metels.
> 
>    METAL          Microhoms per centimeter
> 
>    Silver          1.59   <----------------Best conductor
>    Copper          1.771                     
>    Gold            2.44
>    Aluminum        2.824
>    Brass           7.00
>    Nickel          7.80
>    Tin            11.5
>    Steel          11.9
>    Lead           22.00
>    German silver  33.00    (18% Nickel)
> 

I'm pretty sure that "German Silver" is another name for what we're
calling "Nickel Silver".  This number suggests that you need to have
feeders every, oh, 3,000 centimeters or so if you want to keep your
losses due to resistance in the rails down to .1 ohm or less, I suspect
you'd have a hard time detecting 1.0 ohm's effect on train performance,
even with high tech instrumentation. 3,000 centimeters is about 100 feet.
I don't think this is a problem, do you?
Xref: sparky rec.models.railroad:2348 rec.railroad:9031
From: romeo@niagara.Tymnet.COM (Michael Stimac)
Newsgroups: rec.models.railroad,rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Pantograph pickup width Swiss 460
Date: 18 Nov 92 19:34:26 GMT
Followup-To: rec.models.railroad
Organization: BT North America (Tymnet)

In article <1992Nov18.053023.25928@news.uiowa.edu> jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:
>
>I've always been impressed with Swiss catenary, because they
>seem to make more consistant use of curved catenary than any
>other place I've been.  That is, when rounding a curve, the
>catenary wire (or top wire, or support wire) is off to one
>side, so that it pulls the running wire to the side at every
>support point.  This keeps the running wire within a few
>
>By comparison, most catenary I've seen in the US, or France and
>Italy, for that matter, has been strung with the support wire
>directly above the running wire, so that both hang straignt
>from one lineside support pole to the next.  This leads to


Hunh? This doesn't jibe with my memory of beautifully hung
curved catenary on the Pennsylvania RR. I pulled a book off
my shelf at random and found an example within 10 seconds -
Check page 293 of _Pennsy Power_ by Staufer. The top photo
illustrates compound catenary at Wynnewood, Pa. 

Many trackside photos of ex-Pennsy territory show off the
beautiful flow of curved catenary. At least some of the
engineers who designed the PRR catenary were Switzers,
perhaps that explains the similarity.

Michael Stimac
-- 
Michael Stimac
(415) 355-8889
romeo@tymnet.com
These opinions are not necessarily anyone's but my own.
Newsgroups: rec.models.railroad,rec.railroad
From: Joe.Russ <Joe.Russ@mixcom.mixcom.com>
Subject: Trainfest '92 - thank you for your support
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:30:57 GMT


Trainfest '92 was held November 14 & 15 at Wisconsin's State Fair Park
in West Allis, Wis. The show, sponsored by the Wisconsin Southeastern
Division of the NMRA, drew a record paid attendance of 15,115 which
broke the record set last year of 14,319. I would like to thank any of
you out there in net land who attended the show for helping to make it
the success it was, and would appreciate any comments you may have on
it via email.
   Thanks again.
   Joe Russ
   WISE Div., NMRA
-- 
Joe.Russ@mixcom.com
WISE Div., NMRA
From: GRW104@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.models.railroad
Subject: Athearn 6-axle locos - minimum radius
Date: 19 Nov 92 02:33:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: psuvm.92323.213357GRW104
Organization: Penn State University

I'd appreciate any help on this question:

What's the minimum operating track radius for Athearn's
6-axle diesels with body-mounted couplers (e.g., FM
Trainmaster, SD's)?  Even if they run on, say, 18 inch
radius curves, is coupler overhang a problem?

Thanks in advance

G. Weaver
Newsgroups: rec.models.railroad
From: Robert Schoenberg <U93_RSCHOENB@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bachmann+ F7, Spectrum Pass car quality?
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Organization: Indiana University
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 03:28:06 GMT
X-Vms-To: IN%"rec.models.railroad@silver.ucs.indiana.edu"

>
><previous stuff deleted>
>
I have about 15 of the PRR Spectrum cars.  They look great as a long train 
on my shelf behind my A-B-A (Stewart) F7's (They're freight engines but they'll
have to do for now, gotta get E8's!) --haven't seen the Spectrum F7's yet.
 
	I haven't gotten the cars to run great yet.  There are two 
things that I've done to fix the couplers--I put a washer under the pivot 
inside the car -- it seems to keep the coupler from sagging, I also bent the 
Kadee trip pins up a little higher than usual just to be sure.  It the cars are
going to be used on larger radius curves I recommend getting rid of the 
swiveling coupler mounts and body mounting the couplers.  This is the surest 
way to fix them.
	I hadn't noticed the problem with the sideframes but after looking at 
them they do seem REALLY low to the track.  On some of mine, the wheels push up 
above the sideframes.  You might want to try some wheelsets with larger 
diameter axles.  They might raise the sideframes up just enough.  If that doesn
't work, filing down the bottoms of the sideframes would work (Although it 
might ruin the look of the trucks.)  If all else fails- Cape Line Models makes 
great trucks that match (problem is that they cost about as much as the car)  
Also Eastern Car Works makes the same trucks.  I think one of the two truck 
makers also makes the six wheel version.  Fitting other trucks would take a 
little work and you'd probably have to get rid of the swiveling couplers.  

	Once you get the cars running good they are great cars.  They look 
pretty good but they look much better with a new paint job.  I repainted mine 
with Scalecoat Tuscan Red & Champ Decals.  Plus, to nitpick, the cars should 
only have the brake wheel on one end and the rivets are a little too big.  
The cars are PRR prototypes and painting them in UP, GN, NYC, and B&O is a bit 
of a stretch as I don't think that these roads had these cars.  (I think some 
railroads did build cars to PRR specs but I'm not sure of this)  Does anyone 
know of other RR's that had these cars???

		Rob
u93_Rschoenb@vaxa.stevens-tech.edu
   
Newsgroups: rec.models.railroad
From: Robert Schoenberg <U93_RSCHOENB@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Book Wanted...
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Organization: Indiana University
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 05:26:01 GMT
X-Vms-To: IN%"rec.models.railroad@silver.ucs.indiana.edu"

                                        19-NOV-1992 00:19:55 

hi!

I've been looking for Pullman Standard Library Volume 4 (The Pennsylvania 
Railroad volume)  I haven't been able to find it in any hobby or book stores 
around me and was wondering if anyone out there has a copy they're willing to 
part with or knows where I can get a copy.  Thanks!

(Its published by Railway Production Classics, I think it was published three 
of four years ago.  


                       Rob


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Schoenberg               
U93_RSCHOENB@STEVENS        S-1326        U93_RSCHOENB@VAXA.STEVENS-TECH.EDU
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.models.railroad
From: rjm@cs.brown.edu (Ralph Marshall)
Subject: Re: rec.models.railroad Fortnightly FAQ
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:44:23 GMT

>New Sections since last posting:
>
>Opinions about packaged train sets
>

Actually, there are more new sections:

Corrected definition of Nickel-silver rail
Track-laying, ballasting, and roadbed
Magazines (please send others to which you subscribe)
Historical societies (ditto)

I've also gotten a script which will post this every 14 days without
fail (unless my machine is dead).  The FAQ has also been approved for
inclusion on news.answers, so you can look for it there.

While I obviously think the fortnightly frequency is a good balance
between overkill and having new people miss it, I'll listen to
counter-arguments if anybody feels strongly.

Ralph Marshall
rjm@cs.brown.edu
From: js@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Jon Sawyer)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:54:23 GMT
Subject: Looking for the Colorado Midland
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO