HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kenm@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (...Jose)
Subject: Re: Women more modest?
Organization: Department of Computer Science, McMaster University
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 21:33:19 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.111453.805@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> amy young <alyoung@silver.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
>>A poorly maintained body is no more "natural" than an artificially
>>redesigned body.  There are many genetic traits we have no control over,
>>and no one should feel selfconsious about these.  But there are so many
>>aspects of our health that are related to appearance which we can control, 
>>that I find it disappointing to see anyone who has lost that appreciation
>>for their natural form, especially kindred naturists.
>
>Expound on what you consider to be someone who had "lost that
>appreciation for their natural form...."  Simply overwieght?  By how
>much?  Do the reasons they are overweight play into it?  

	Ms. Young expounds on the unfairness of the poster who suggests
that gross obesity or physical deterioration is less desirable than
a moderately healthy physique.  Well, the fellow is right!  A healthy
human body is more attractive than an unhealthy one.  Granted, the 
idea of the most beautiful type (more likey, types) of form will 
vary from person to person, but I dare say that anyone will find
a healthy form more objectively appealing than an unhealthy one.

	Life isn't fair: we're not all equally beautiful, esp.
naked.... let's not pretend otherwise, but let's not always let
it matter either.
  
	I have a lightweight build (I'm a runner, and look like one)
and don't have the classical Greek form that I find most 
appealing, and I have no problem admitting that.  But it doesn't
keep me from my occaisional nude swimming excursion.  Neither does my 
appreciation for the healthy forms that I encounter keep me from
enjoying the company of the fat, scrawny or aged.

	Analogy: my public appearance is important to me, and I dress
with both myself and others in mind, and I appreciate those who do the
same.... that doesn't prevent me from having friends in floods and
ugly plaid or friends who wear ratty jeans and biker jackets.

	My Point: Other's physical appearance (nude or not) has an
affect on us, and can even tell us something about that person; the
reasonable person can decide to look beyond that to other aspects 
of the person.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
".sig quotes are silly"|Kenneth C. Moyle          kenm@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca 
 - Kenneth C. Moyle    |Department of Biochemistry     MOYLEK@MCMASTER.BITNET 
                       |McMaster University       ...!uunet!mnetor!maccs!kenm
From: an725@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul L. Fortman, Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: Public Pools
Date: 6 Apr 92 23:52:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.1992Apr6.235243.21722
Reply-To: an725@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul L. Fortman, Jr.)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


In a previous article, PATZNER@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de (Achim Patzner) says:
>-> (Freikoerperkultur -- literally "cultivating the body, free of clothing").  
>Not quite... but the complete explanation will be too long and too boring.

I thought that "Freikorperkulter" meant "Free body culture".
Free (Frei), body (Korper), culture (Kulter).  

>person's whole life. Just one question: Are other people really wearing
>CLOTHES in saunas? Towels maybe, but anything else?

This reminds me of the TV show called "Sisters".  Every episode begins
with each sister wrapped in a towel while in a sauna.  They look so 
silly sitting there wrapped in towels.  

*Paul

-- 
fortmapl@dayton.bitnet
fortmapl@udavxb.oca.udayton.edu
From: jen@cypress.com (JimBo Jackson Newton)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: Public Pools
Date: 8 Apr 92 21:23:43 GMT
	<1992Apr4.093923.6392@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>
Organization: Cypress Semiconductor Southeast Design Center
In-reply-to: john@rtfm.mlb.fl.us's message of 4 Apr 92 09:39:23 GMT

my roommate was an entering freshman at Cornell in 1980, and he
took the ROTC equivalent swimming test which filled the
university requirement for the swimming test.  Anyway,
he claims that 100% of the ROTC students had on swimsuits.
From: rpaolino@polisci.pol.umn.edu (Robert Paolino)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: NO MORE REPLIES ON "OB NUDE" PLEASE
Date: 15 Apr 92 10:45:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: polisci.rpaolino.262
Organization: Department of Political Science, University of Minnesota

A number of people have e-mailed to me on the definition of Ob[xxxx].
My guess would have been "OBservation on [xxxx]," so I guess I was close 
enough to OBligatory.

Thanks for responding, but no more please :-)

--------------------------------------------------------------------
RPAOLINO@polisci.pol.umn.edu                             Bob Paolino
 "Help! I've fallen and I                    University of Minnesota
   can't reach my beer!"             Department of Political Science
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Volleyball referees: We whistle while we work....      [;-)]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bpwing@phoenix.princeton.edu (Ben Wing)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Date: 3 Apr 92 17:25:23 GMT
Subject: Re: Women more modest?
Organization: Princeton University
X-Subliminal-Message: You can quit reading news anytime you want.

In article <1992Apr2.152711.25901@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> amy young <alyoung@silver.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
|In article <1952@shuksan.boeing.com> major@shuksan.boeing.com (Mike Schmitt) writes:
|
|>  I'd like to know how many men out there - at a nude beach (or someother
|>  CO area) - really CARE?!  I mean, does anybody really DEMAND a perfect
|
|At a nude beach?  Probably not many.  However, I've found that the
|majority of people who are comfortable with a CO lifestyle are not
|your average citizen.
|
|>  body?  Amy raises the issue that women feel they must have a perfect body.
|
|By the time a person makes the decision to have a CO lifestyle if
|their parents did not introduce them to it, they've had years and
|years of media programming.  Who sells us clothes in the catalogs?
|Who gets the guys in the movies?  Go to the mall... what women turn
|men's heads?  What women do men make remarks about openly?  Go to a
|social function.  Who gets the positive comments and reactions, and
|who gets the negative ones? 

Hmm, my experience here (where image is exalted on high) is that men
go for clothing and hair (and outgoingness, tanned-ness, etc.) in women at
least as much as for body.  Plenty of women here might be described as
"average-looking" but still attract plenty of attention from guys because
of the way they dress and act.  Many others, who normally get no notice,
suddenly get noticed when they wear a swimsuit or whatever.

My impression is that for guys it's more an attitude/dress thing -- they
aren't that picky about body.  (or maybe they're just desperate here :-).
It's a real shame that the "perfect body" idea pervades our society,
though (and believe me, men too get told that they're supposed to have
a perfect body).  I'd rather see a "healthy body" idea -- I guess that's
more or less the nudist idea, too.

ben
From: s884764@otto.bf.rmit.oz.au (Grant Waldram [Atom Smash])
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: Public Pools
Date: 8 Apr 92 01:37:51 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia.

In article <1992Apr6.180527.21072@olymp.informatik.uni-bonn.de>, PATZNER@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de (Achim Patzner) writes:
> Just one question: Are other people really wearing
> CLOTHES in saunas? Towels maybe, but anything else?

I sat in a sauna in a suit for about five minutes, once. Dry sauna, though.
Can't quite remember the reason, but I know there was a good one.

OB Nude : We've started a club here in Melbourne, specifically for young
	  people (18-25, give or take a bit), so if anyone in Melbourne
	  wants to get in touch with us, send me some email.

Grant
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress
any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism."  from 'Contact' by Carl Sagan
------   s884764@otto.bf.rmit.oz.au     Grant Waldram [Atom Smash]   ------
From: major@shuksan.boeing.com (Mike Schmitt)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: Folkdancing nudists? (was Re: Women more modest?)
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:34:51 GMT
Organization: The Boeing Co., MMST, Seattle, Wa.

> And then there's the local square dance caller (and friends) who calls the
> nude square dance every year.  It makes for some tall tales at dancing!
 
  With this general thread of dancing in the nude - I'm not sure I want to
  be out 2-steppin' with boots and spurs - in the nude!!!!!!  :-)  :-)  :-)

  mts

-- 
Mike Schmitt                   "Verify range to target.  One opinion Mr Vasily,
Boeing Defense & Space Group    and one opinion only, please.  And it's not my  
Seattle, WA                     employer's." 
major@@shuksan.boeing.com
From: rstevens@ncrcan.Canada.NCR.CA (Roger Stevens)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: Prince Edward Island
Date: 15 Apr 92 20:29:59 GMT
Organization: NCR Canada Ltd. Mississauga, Ontario

In article <1992Apr13.185821.11074@bmerh2.bnr.ca> glenm@bnr.ca writes:
>In article <s369pINN1bc@network.ucsd.edu>, middleto@poincare.ucsd.edu (Tom Middleton ; System Manager) writes:
>|> 
>|> Someone ask me to post a question:
>|> 
>|>        Does anyone know of CO beaches in Prince Edward Island?
>
>Yes. And no.
>
>Notwithstanding the Sears ad, which suggested a nudist club on PEI,
>there doesn't appear to be one. At least, I haven't found it yet.
>Perhaps I should ask Sears if they made it up ...
>
Actually, there is a nudist club on PEI, it was advertised in the
ASA bulletin this month.
If anyone is interested I will search for it and post it.


                       =====
Roger Stevens    | uucp        ...!uunet!attcan!ncrcan!roger
ncr canada       | internet     Roger.Stevens@Toronto.NCR.COM
(416) 819-4115   | 6865 Century Ave, Mississauga, Ontario, Canada L5N 2E2

REMEMBER:   IF ITS NICE OUT...............LEAVE IT OUT!
                       =====
Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: cliffg@gjetor.geac.com (Cliff Goldstein)
Subject: Boob tube nudes
Keywords: Network, television
Organization: Geac Canada Ltd.
Date: 6 Apr 92 18:25:36 GMT

Hey out there in television land:

      Just an update on what's been happening on TV lately.

      The CBC recently ran 5 specials of a comedy troop that call
themselves "3 Dead Trolls in a Baggie".  They were running Thursday
evenings and concluded Apr 2.

     Of note was the very last sketch done on the last show.  It
started with 4 of the 5 members (3 males & the one lone female)
playing a game of Trivial Pursuit with 1 of them being an obnoxious,
smart-ass.  One of the others gets fed up with him, pulls out a
revolver and shoots him 3 or 4 times.  (Insert laughs here.)

     Then all the members walk out of the sketch and the female member
(Cathleen) starts talking to the live audience...(paraphrasing) "Why
is it that you & your family can see this (kind of senseless violence)
any evening at home on TV but you can't see THIS ......"

     At this point the fifth member of the group runs out from behind
a curtain yelling, jumping and waving his arms like an idiot totally
naked.  His genitals were electronically blurred out though there were
a couple shots of his butt hanging out.  The audience though saw all.
(Note: This WAS done in front of a live audience who presumably signed
some form of release and/or had been warned in advance.  This was NOT
a case of creative editing or video tricks as I have some training in
television production.)

Post Script:
     IMO they weren't ever all that funny and I am looking forward to
watching "Kids In The Hall" & "CODCO" again.  In Toronto, on the CBC
Thursday nights at 9:00 & 9:30 respectively.  Two shows MUCH funnier
than anything the U.S. networks have to offer.  (Hint, hint... if you
haven't seen either of them yet make the effort and keep your fingers
crossed that they don't get sold out to U.S. interests like SCTV was.)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Cliff  Goldstein                           cliffg@gjetor.geac.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Let's show this prehistoric bitch how we do things downtown."
                                                     Ghostbusters
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: arnett@unixg.ubc.ca (Bill Arnett)
Subject: Re: Public Pools
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 04:50:44 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.180527.21072@olymp.informatik.uni-bonn.de> PATZNER@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de (Achim Patzner) writes:
>-> I have
>-> never seen anyone in a sauna in Germany with a bathing suit.
>
>I have... and it was probably the most embarassing situation in that
>person's whole life. Just one question: Are other people really wearing
>CLOTHES in saunas? Towels maybe, but anything else?

Yes.  In the campus pool here at UBC, the saunas are single-sex and during
the "staff and student" sessions probably about half of the men using the
sauna (and the steam room) wear swimsuits or shorts.  I don't think I've
*ever* seen anyone wrapped in a towel.  It's either clothes or nothing.

During the "public" sessions, almost all the men wear shorts or swimsuits.
I've only seen a couple of other guys use the sauna nude during these sessions.

Twice a week (10:30 to midnight during "public" sessions) the saunas are
mixed-sex.  During these times everyone wears a suit.  (I don't think that
any clothing requirements are actually published; they are just taken for
granted.)

I've heard from one person that the saunas at nearby Simon Fraser University
are mixed-sex *and* clothing-optional, but I don't know if this is true
(occasionally, frequently, or ever).
--
Bill Arnett                            Internet: arnett@unixg.ubc.ca
From: major@shuksan.boeing.com (Mike Schmitt)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: CO Beach in Seattle?  (was Re: Women more modest?
Date: 6 Apr 92 21:02:23 GMT
Organization: The Boeing Co., MMST, Seattle, Wa.


> Mike, what beach do you go to in/near Seattle?  (You are in Seattle, aren't
> you?)  Is it clothing-optional?

  Tacoma, actually.  Depending on the mode of sun/beach required I usually
  hit Owens Beach (Point Defiance), Browns Point, Redondo, - or travel over
  to the 'peninsula' and head for Kopahuck or Penrose.  For 'serious' beach
  work I usually take the boat and head for one of the small, isolated,
  deserted reach-only-by-boat islands in south puget sound.  None are 
  clothing-optional actually - but if no one is on the island then clothing
  is an option.   

  Sadly - this weekend's weather took a turn for the worse - became very
  cloudy rainy and cold - Sunday was worse.  So, I went to the boat show
  and thought about it alot!  :-)  :-)

  (why do I hear amy chuckling in the background about the weather?)




-- 
Mike Schmitt                   "Verify range to target.  One opinion Mr Vasily,
Boeing Defense & Space Group    and one opinion only, please.  And it's not my  
Seattle, WA                     employer's." 
major@@shuksan.boeing.com
From: 00rkspicher@bsu-ucs.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: Folkdancing nudists and other strange people
Date: 10 Apr 92 16:32:20 GMT

In article <1992Apr5.224513.1702@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>, steve@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Steve Pierce) writes:
> Recently Tom Cumming posted about a correlation between his folkdancing/folk 
> music friends and his nudist/naturist friends.  Well, most of my friends are
> medievalists (Society for Creative Anachronism) and most of my friends are
> either nudists/naturists or comfortable with those that are.  (Our Household

	.
	.
	. 
> I think the reason is that SCA folks (like folk-dancers and many others) are
> comfortable with who they are and are accepted as people who have talents
> and minds, not perfect bodies (don't get me wrong - there is still some of the
> crap of the, as we SCAdians call it, mundane world in the SCA, but by and
> large, a lot less of it).

I think the real reason that such groups are willing to accept
such things as nudity (I am, by the way, also in the SCA, so I
have direct knowlege of this) is that beacuse they/we do things
which Joe Average thinks is really weird in the first place.  The
times when I've gone to a local restaraunt wearing my medieval
garb (Always with similarly dressed others for moral support)
we've always gotten Stares, Stares, Sideways glances, and more
Stares.  People who would break down under such scrutiny tend not
to do this, at least not more than once.  Once fear is lost of
not following the majority opinion, people will do almost
anything. 

Nudity is repressed, IMHO, because the "majority" is, at least
publicly, against it.  Some people become "High and Mighty", and
say "You should not do that because it is not done". These same
people will then go on to do those same things privately. Thus we
have TV ministers in the National Enquirer for sleeping with
their secretaries, Scandal, etc. 

If you are a person who will not blindly "go with the flow", then
you will tend to gather around you others of like mind. 

Personally, I have never gone publicly nude.  When I lived with 
my parents, they had a large property in which I could get away 
from all eyes (especially my parents' eyes) and go lie out in the 
sun sans clothes.  Now that I live in a city, I find myself 
unable to do any such thing, since jail is not my favorite place.
I am limited to only forgoing clothing when I am in my apartment.
I'm sure I ocassionally give the neighbors an eyefull though.

RKS
From: amy young <alyoung@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Women more modest?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 11:14:45 -0500

In article <52746@mimsy.umd.edu> jerrys@umiacs.umd.edu (Jerry Sobieski) writes:

>I don't know if I would wholly agree with the last comment.  I think we do
>have some degree of control over the condition and appearance of our
>bodies, and worse, some responsibility to maintain it.  This
>certainly doesn't require breast implants and face lifts, but IMO it
>does include avoiding excesses such as overeating, or eating the wrong
>types of food, personal hygene such bathing regularly, some modicum
>of physical fitness, etc.

Yes, but who decides this?  You?  Diet books?  The person who owns the
body?

>It seems to me that if body acceptance is the objective, then there is some
>inherent value attached to it.  It also seems to me that someone who 
>has ignored their physical appearance and/or health to the point of obesity or 
>due to excessive vices such as smoking or drinking *too much*, has destroyed 
>much of the natural beauty of the human body.  These characteristics 
>reflect a person's own attitudes toward their own body and are 
>just as pitiable (IMO) as someone who gobs on 
>too much makeup or feels compelled to have their nose redone.

The only problem here is we come up to the same problem as to who
decides what is too much... of course, such things as smoking and
drinking, the lines are pretty clear, but for such things as weight...
who's to say?  I know some people who are pitifully thin, but eat and
eat and eat... would they fall into the "undesirable or wrong"
catagory for you?  What about people with hormonal disorders who can't
lose excess weight?  And what about those that just don't meet
whatever criteria is set?  Perhaps their best weight is not what you
would judge it to be?  Then what?  Who decides?  

>A poorly maintained body is no more "natural" than an artificially
>redesigned body.  There are many genetic traits we have no control over,
>and no one should feel selfconsious about these.  But there are so many
>aspects of our health that are related to appearance which we can control, 
>that I find it disappointing to see anyone who has lost that appreciation
>for their natural form, especially kindred naturists.

Expound on what you consider to be someone who had "lost that
appreciation for their natural form...."  Simply overwieght?  By how
much?  Do the reasons they are overweight play into it?  

>However, its not my body.  So I shan't inform you of my distress unless
>you inquire of it:-)

Good attitude.  There are many situations where judging the surface is
only getting half the story anyway.  

amy
(not flames intended, I'm just asking questions).
-- 
******************************************************************************
"Quick to judge, quick to anger.... slow to understand. 
	       		Ignorance and prejudice, and fear, walk hand in hand."
              						--Neil Peart
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com (System Administrator)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: CO in California
Date: 16 Apr 92 01:17:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: crash.1992Apr16.011720.19029
Organization: Crash TimeSharing, El Cajon, CA

Is there a listing of clothing optional areas for California??
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ProLine:  rsopicki@pro-amber         |        System Administrator
Internet: rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com |                of
UUCP:     crash!pro-amber!rsopicki   |             Pro-Amber
CIS:      75146.430@compuserve.com   |           619-460-9762
From: robin@ima.isc.com (Robin Gyver)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: Christianity and COness in Southern California
Date: 6 Apr 92 04:08:20 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: not much


     Hmm.  Maybe it's time to restart the Boston area Clothing
Optional Bible Study.  (Sorry, I'm nowhere near Southern CA.)

-- 
<robin@ima.isc.com>
One Naked Individual, with Liberty and Justice for All
From: jtan@cc.weber.edu (THE TAN MAN)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Lake Tahoe CO's?
Date: 7 Apr 92 02:38:00 GMT
Reply-To: JTAN@cc.weber.edu
Organization: Weber State University CS Department
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

I'll be going down to Lake Tahoe/Reno this
weekend (leaving Wednesday).  Does anyone
know of any good CO beaches down there?

I believe (I'd have to check to make sure)
the town I'll be going to is Incline Village
somewhere near the University of Nevada-Reno.

Thanks

JTAN@cc.weber.edu
Newsgroups: rec.nude