HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cdawkins@axion.bt.co.uk (Abd Al Karim)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Interest/Financing cars and homes
Date: 26 Aug 92 20:17:21 GMT
Organization: British Telecom Research Labs



Asalamu Alaikum

When the brother says " I know that I will be paying interest but..."then the question has already been answered..

Interest is dealing in usary and usary is Haram

The Qur'an says the following:-

 Those who swallow down usury cannot arise except as one whom
Shaitan has prostrated by (his) touch does rise. That is because
they say, trading is only like usury; and Allah has allowed
trading and forbidden usury. To whomsoever then the admonition
has come from his Lord, then he desists, he shall have what has
already passed, and his affair is in the hands of Allah; and
whoever returns (to it)-- these arc the inmates of the fire; they
shall abide in it.

 Allah does not bless usury, and He causes charitable deeds
to prosper, and Allah does not love any ungrateful sinner.

 Surely they who believe and do good deeds and keep up prayer
and pay the poor-rate they shall have their reward from their
Lord, and they shall have no fear, nor shall they grieve.

 O you who believe! Be careful of (your duty to) Allah and
relinquish what remains (due) from usury, if you are believers.

 But if you do (it) not, then be apprised of war from Allah
and His Apostle; and if you repent, then you shall have your
capital; neither shall you make (the debtor) suffer loss, nor shall
you be made to suffer loss.

Surah Baquarah, ayahs 275-279
--------------------------------------------------------------------

The final verse actually gives the disadvantages of dealing in usary, and the advantages in not dealing in such a thing.

Do not state things that you your self do not know to be true my brother.
Remember that whatever we do or say has to be justified in front of Allah on the yaum al-qyiaamah. Sometimes when I realise this fact, I pray that Allah has forgiven me for my past sins, and that I will always repent whenever I commit any act that is contrary to his command as layed down in the Noble Qur'an and the Sunnah of his Rasul (SAwS).
From: ag3l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Arun K. Gupta)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: RE: non-muslim seeking info
Date: 26 Aug 92 20:33:07 GMT




Since the posting by Irfan Alan invokes the findings of science as
evidence for the Creator,

(for example:

 "The information given in these verses of the Qur'an are more
  than 14 centuries old.  Now, today true science is gradually
  unfolding these facts."

and

 "As all these examples demonstrate, the Qur'an the Miraculous
  Exposition is allied with the Book of Creation, the universe.
  It is therefore, that Islam always stays alive and shows its
  potential even more as science unfolds more of the true
  knowledge."
)

as a scientist I feel compelled to comment on a mis-statement:

>From: irfan@apollo.ece.wisc.edu (Irfan Alan)
>Subject: RE: non-muslim seeking info
>Date: 14 Aug 92 22:42:19 GMT
>
>Particle Example
>-------------------
>If every particle is not an official of Allah acting with His
>permission and under His authority, and if it is not undergoing
>change within His Knowledge and Power, then every particle must
>have infinite knowledge and limitless power, it must have eyes
>that see everything, a face that looks to all things, and
>authority over all things... Indeed, a particle despite being
>powerless and lifeless by carrying out its important duties
>consciously and by raising mighty loads bears decisive witness
>to the existence of the Necessarily Existent One.
>
>Individual motions and duties of each particle is the signature
>of the Uniqueness of Allah.  They show His Absolute Will and
>Power.  Whereas the unity in purpose, correlation, and
>cooperation of billions of particles acting in a mutual way to
>serve one function is the signature of the Oneness of Allah, and
>show His Absolute Knowledge and Power.


Science is showing us that systems made of remarkably simple parts
can exhibit complex and self-organizing behavior. (Conway's game of
Life, that appears as a screen-saver on many computer terminals is
a trivial illustration of this.)  Thus, particles do not need
"infinite knowledge and limitless power" to explain the phenomena
that scientists observe, nor need there be any guiding intelligence.

No disrespect intended; but if one is going to quote the findings of
science as a justification for faith, then one must approach it
with the skeptical spirit of the scientist.

-arun gupta
ag3L@andrew.cmu.edu
From: hareb_s@cubldr.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Book ----- New ed.
Date: 23 Aug 92 23:14:00 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)



[Postmarked: Aug 19, '92]

		ANNOUNCING THE SECOND EDITION OF





			PROPHET MUHAMMAD
		The last messenger in the Bible

			written      by:
			 Kais Al Kalby

Written in five parts including:

Part 1:  GOD, THE ONE AND ONLY SAVIOR
Part 2:  SCIENCE IN THE QURAN
Part 3:  PROPHET MUHAMMAD, THE LAST MESSENGER IN THE BIBLE
Part 4:  WHY THEY HAVE CHOSEN ISLAM
Part 5:  GENERAL INFORMATION ABOUT ISLAM

Comparison of the English, Hebrew and Arabic Bible with the Quran showing the
references side by side. Over 600 pages -- including maps, pictures, documents
and references. Follow the life and mission of the prophet muhammad through the
Bible from birth until death. Examines Muhammad's prophecies for our day.

A guide to the Islamic religion and practices.

To order please send check or money order for $28 (including postage and
handling) to :

American Muslim Cultural Association
P.O.Box 561
Logan, Utah 84321

If you would like to contact the auther of the book, please call
(801) 753 5787    



=========================================================================
			Excerpts from the book

Isaiah 21:13 The inspiration upon Arabia, in the forest in Arabia shall ye
lodge.

Genesis 15:18 In that same day, the Lord made a covenant with Abraham, saying,
unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the grat
river, the river Eu-phrates.

Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a
kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to
other poeple, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and
it shall stand forever.

-Is it possible that
the prophet and the messenger of God (Allah), Muhammad

(peace be upon him)
From: mmasood@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mohammed A Masood)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Meeting in Columbus, Ohio mosque regarding Bosnia
Date: 23 Aug 92 22:59:00 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)


[Postmarked: 17 Aug '92 ]

Assalam-o-alaikum,

I'm posting the minutes of the meeting which was held on Saturday,
August 15, 1992, at Omar Khattab Mosque in Columbus, Ohio regarding
the plight of Muslims in Bosnia.

o  Quite few people were present, especially the young blood.
o  We planned certain events
o  Some brothers informed us that Bosnian are more in need of weapons
   than food
o  Brothers from Omar Khattab mosque plan to give lectures in different
   masajid in Ohio-Michigan area for now.  In these lectures we want to
   aware our brothers what the ummah is going through and WHY?  Also,
   what can we do while sitting here.  Also, in these lectures we plan 
   to have fund-raisers for our brothers.

	WE ASK FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE TO HELP ARRANGE SUCH LECTURES IN YOUR
	COMMUNITY.  LET US KNOW THRU EMAIL TO ME WHEN & WHERE CAN WE COME
	TO GIVE LECTURES AND DISCUSS THE ISSUE OF BOSNIA AND THE UMMAH'S
	CONDITION IN GENERAL.

o  We'll post you our next steps soon insa-allah.

We'll be anxiously waiting for your replies.

Wassalaam

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
From: johnsone@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Erik A. Johnson)
Subject: RE: Contradictions in Quran?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 22:38:00 GMT

[Postmarked: 17 Aug '92]

nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Nabeel Ghuzlaan) writes:
>   It is something like this, if a teacher gave you some homework, you will
>be judged by that homework, later he gave you another homework, now you
>ALSO will be judged by the new homework, if some people attended class after
>the first homework or some died before the second homework they should not
>be judged by what they did not live. It is the same here. You lived 2000 years
>ago you were given Judaism and judged by it, if you lived up to Jesus' time
>then you WERE to follow him and get judged by his teachings too, if you
>survived to Muhammad's time, then you also WERE to follow Islam. In every
>age you are to follow the religion in control of that time. God could have
>made one religion since the time of Adam for all people and He could also
>have made all people follow that religion (or whatever religion He wanted)
>but He did not choose to do it that way. But that does not mean you are now
>on your own to choose any religion or exempt from following the last prophet
>to date (you heard of, of course, the old days when people did not know if
>other cities existed!)
>
>   What is wrong with that? God did not say the Bible is wrong, what the
>Jews and Christians have is not necessarily authentic, God pointed to some
>mistakes, and corruptions there.

One small difficulty with your analogy ... a teacher assigns homework
appropriate to the level of expertise of the student -- one would not
give homework covering multiplication and division to a student who had
not yet learned addition.

Look at the histories of the peoples of interest here.

1. The Torah was given through Moses to a people who, though often
   disobedient, had a longstanding belief on the One God, back six or
   seven hundred years to Abraham.

2. Likewise, Jesus came to the Jewish people, who had at that time, believed
   in the One God for nearly two millenia.

3. Muhammad, on the other hand, (if I remember my Islamic history ... if not
   please accept my humble apologies and correct me) came to a people who
   were largely pagan, worshiping a plethura of gods.

So in this sense, the fact that Muhammad came later chronologically does not
necessarily imply a superiority of teaching that abrogates the (chronologically)
earlier teachings.

God bless!


Erik A. Johnson, Graduate Student        \ Internet:  johnsone@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu
Aeronautical & Astronautical Engineering  \
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign \ AmericaOnline: ErikAJ

Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
From: smmat@ukc.ac.uk (S.M.M.Al-Taher)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Is there a FAQ list?
Date: 26 Aug 92 20:12:33 GMT
Organization: Computing Lab, University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.



I seem to remember there being talks some time ago about compiling
a list of FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) for this newsgroup.

Has this been done yet and if so who maintains the list? 
is it available on any anonymous ftp sites?

Thanks.
	Sami.
--
| Sami M AL-Taher                |                                 | 
| Electronic Engineering Labs.   |                                 |
| University of Kent,            | E-mail: smmat@ukc.ac.uk         |
| Canterbury, Kent, UK.          | Tel: + 44 227 769303            |
From: rached@taylor.eng.ohio-state.edu (rached)
Subject: MONITOR: soc.culture.lebanon
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 22:46:00 GMT

[Postmarked: Aug 17, '92 ]

Article: 6096 of soc.culture.lebanon
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Subject: Re: Chritians, Muslems, and M.G
Reply-To: a.Faris@trl.oz.au 
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne,Australia
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 02:57:24 GMT

This is primarily aimed at that creature by the initial M.G.

To begin, Christains lived in the middle east six hundred years before Islam begun. In
case you did not know, most of the generals that lead the armies of Mohammed were
Christains who were hired by the prophet and his associates. Later on they were forced
to convert to Islam or face death by the sword like every one else.

Christains DO NOT LOOK TO FRANCE OR ANY OTHER WESTERN COUNTRY AS THEIR MOTHER COUNTRY.
It is only through desparity that they have any feelings toward the west. They have
been alienated by the present political climate from beeing involved directly and do no
have control over their destiny. Islam has never and will never lead to unification
(sorry to disappoint you). People will unify when they have common goals and agendas,
not because they beleive in the same god and religion. You happen to live in a unified
country and I perceive that you are Muslim like many other people living in the UK.

The christains consider the Middle East as their home, as I do. To be honest with you,
if the christains were in political control, the Middle East will be in its GLORY.
People will not be treated as political "hotdogs" by western powers and Isreal.
Civilisation will be very technically and socially advanced as these people have proven
in the past. Look at the Assyrians and Babylonians in your back yard, look at the
Pheonicians, look at the syrians in the north (Haleb, Ebla, etc), look at aramaic
people of damascus. They have built great civilisations that western powers are still
relying on to this day.

To summarise your education lesson, christains are not to blame for the present
problems in the Middle East and did not spoil your effort to unify under Islam. I
beleive Islam or any religion with the exception of Judiasm is incapable of unifying
people. This is exactly how Jews meant it to be when they created Christianity and
Islam. You should read the epics of Gilgamish a famous Assyrian, study the recent
findings in the ancient city of Ebla in northern Syria, and read the codes of Hammurabi.

A.Faris
From: ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Ekrem Saban)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Ramadan. When is it (was it) this year.
Date: 29 Aug 92 04:16:44 GMT
Reply-To: ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Ekrem Saban)
Organization: Technical University of Vienna
Originator: gwydion@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In article <26505@life.ai.mit.edu> uunet!sun330!brath@ncar.UCAR.EDU (Mario N. Brathwaite) writes:

   When exactly did (does) the holy month of fasting occur this year? 

It is about 6,5 month ahead. It will start after the new moon has been
seen by a group of believers.

   Also, is it factual that the begin of Ramadan advances by 12 days
   every year?

As the moon year is within 33 solar years 19x 354 and 15x 355 days
(total of 34 moon years), the difference between them is 10 to 12
years and about 11 days on average (354,44 days).

   Peace
   --
   brath@fnma.com

Peace
--

_______  __ ________________________________________________ _ ___________
   /|   |    	A. Ekrem SABAN	       / Technische Universitat Wien
  /_|_  |_  ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at/Inst.f. Techn. Informatik, HW & VLSI
 /  |     |    "Nu ninda-a ezateni,  /Address: 1040 Wien, Treitlstr. 3/2
/   |__ __|	vadar ma ekuteni"   /Tel:(43-1)58801/8147, Fax:(43-1)569697
From: nadeem@igpho (Nadeem Malik)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: The history of the Qur'an
Date: 29 Aug 92 04:09:58 GMT
Reply-To: nadeem@igpho.ethz.ch (Nadeem Malik)
Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Originator: gwydion@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu

With respect to Sharaaz Khan, I would like to point out two 
important errors in an otherwise excellent article that he wrote:

khan@twg.com (Sharaaz K. Khan) writes:
: 
: 
: In article <26093@life.ai.mit.edu> lampola@tele.nokia.fi (Markus Lampola) writes:
: >Where have the texts of the Qur'an come from? 
: 
: The Qur'an was revealed over 1400 years ago to the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH),
: over a period of about 20 years.  As he (PBUH) heard it in inspiration, from
							     ^^^^^^^^^^^
(1) The revelations to the Holy Prophet (pbuh) were not inspired; this is the
sort of inspiration that Christians accept of say the Biblical prophets and
even ordinary people. The revelation of the Quran was direct verbal
communication by the Arch-angel Gabrial (pbuh) over a period of 23 years.

: the Angel Jibrael (Gabreal in Christian terminology), he learnt it off by
: heart.  After learning it, he (PBUH) used to dictate it out to his literate
: companions (the Prophet could not read nor write).  His literate companions
: recorded his dictation word for word of stones and leaves.  The Prophet  
: (PBUH) was known to have had the inscribers re-dictate the verse back to 
: him again and again to ensure the proper authentication.  After 
: the Prophet (PBUH) died, the inscriptions were collected by Abu Bakr (the
: first successor to the Prophet or Caliph - may Allah be pleased with him), 
: and later the Qur'an was compiled in the form of a book (as we see it today) 
: by the last of the Rashideen Caliphs (Uthman - may Allah be pleased with him).
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(2) Hazrat Uthman was the 3rd of the Rashideen Caliphs (rightly guided Caliphs),
not the last; the 4th and last was Hazrat Ali. (The 2nd was Hazrat Ummar).
May Allah be pleased with them all.

: The Qur'an as compiled by Hazrat Uthman is still inexistence today in the
: original form at two locations - Tashkent and Istanbul and could be compared
: to any Qur'an for authentication checks.  I hope that this will answer your
: question. 

I think Hazrat Uthman issued 7 copies of the Quran and sent them to the
different parts of the growing Muslim Empires. I was not aware that two of
these originals are still intact. Could someone provide me with more details
please. Thank you.

[deletions]
: 
: Peace,
: 
: Sharaaz Khan

Peace,
Nadeem Malik
(Note correct e-mail address is nadeem@p.igp.ethz.ch)
From: bacchus@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Emran Bacchus)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: columbus and muslims
Date: 29 Aug 92 04:01:49 GMT
Reply-To: bacchus@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Emran Bacchus)
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Originator: gwydion@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu

Muslims were on the expeditions sent out by spain to 'discover the new world'
; as sailors. 500 years later, we are assessing the consequences of columbus.
At the UNIVERSITY OF MANITOBA in Nov 11 to 13 is a conference on this impact
of columbus losing his way when trying to find INDIA.
From: palmer@isye.gatech.edu (Michael T. Palmer)
Subject: RE: Words Feminists find Demeaning!
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 23:03:00 GMT


[Postmarked: 17 Aug '92]

What the second poster pointed out is that Islam as a religion does
not accept or condone the mistreatment of women in any way.  The fact
that this happens in middle-eastern countries reflects cultural, not
religious, conditions.

However, the same is true for western countries.  Mistreatment does
occur (perhaps less overtly, at least to those of us living here),
but it is culturally based, too, and is not a reflection on the
religions being practiced (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc).  So,
since religions are not involved, including Islam, perhaps this
discussion should be moved to a more appropriate newsgroup.

Mike
--
Michael T. Palmer, M/S 152, NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  23665
Voice: 804-864-2044,   FAX: 804-864-????,   Email: palmer@icat.larc.nasa.gov
From: mughal@iago.caltech.edu (ASIM M MUGHAL)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Group Soc.Religion.Islam: Statistics for August '92
Date: 24 Aug 92 00:09:00 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)


                STATISTICS 4:00 pm PST 8/23/92
                =============================

                Moderator: Asim M Mughal

                For Period       : July 23 `92 thru August 23 `92.

                Articles Received:      63
                Articles Reviewed:      63
                Backlog          :       0

                Articles Approved:      55
                Articles Rejected:       2
     		Administrative/queries:  6

 		SRI Announcements:	 2

                Total SRI Load   :      65!
     		 
              o  Rejected/Approved Ratio: 2/55 = 3.63 %
From: trajan@cwis.unomaha.edu (Stephen McIntyre)
Subject: why the hypocrisy?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 22:32:00 GMT



[Postmarked: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 18:38:33 GMT ]


I'll be brief: why the hypocrisy in concern over Bosnia
     and Somalia?  From what I've read and heard from
     several different news sources, many Muslims are
     concerned with what is happening in Bosnia, 
     especially with talk of ethnic "cleansing" by the
     Serbs.  There apparently is talk between several
     Islamic nations about cooperating and helping out the
     Bosnians, using both humanitarian and military means.

On the other hand, while it is good that above mentioned
     Islamic nations are willing to help out their fellow
     Bosnians, they are nevertheless turning the other cheek
     from the Somalians.  Whereas hundreds, possibly
     thousands of Muslims are dying in Bosnia, tens of
     thousands of Muslims are dying from starvation and
     disease in Somalia.  Aren't the Somalians worthy of
     the same concern and help as the Bosnians?  Or is it
     perhaps all of this talk about Islam being blind to
     the color of a person's skin a sham?  It seems to me
     that the need of tens of thousands, in a land that is
     99% Muslim, would be more pressing to the religion than
     the need of a few thousand fighting a war over land
     and ethnicity.

Either respond here or e-mail me if you've got the time.

Stephen @Trajan