From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Nabeel Ghuzlaan)
Subject: Re: ADVENT OF PROMISED MESSIAH (one answer serves all!!)
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 20:13:06 GMT

Salamun ala man ittaba' alhuda,

   It hurts me when reading all capitals or double spaced text, why do you
guys, do it? This was a long article, so I am deleting wherever possible
without corrupting the meaning of the followed up article.

umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Nasir Ahmed Noor) writes:

>IN THIS ARTICEL I DISCUSS THE HADITH AND QURANIC VERSES WHICH TELL US
>ABOUT THE ADVENT OF PROMISSED MESSIAH AND MAHDI.

>I ALSO GIVE THE SIGNS MENTIONED IN QURAN AND HADITH AND HOW THEY WERE
>MET/FULFILLED/APPEARED.

>Dear Reader,
>Asslam-o-Alaikum,

   Thanks.

>The Holy Prophet of Islam (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) is
>reported to have said:

>     "Even if only one day would have been left for the world to come to
>      an end, Allah would lengthen that day and would not let that day end
>      until He causes the Promised Messiah and Mahdi to appear."
>                          (Abu Daud Vol. 2: Kitabul Mahdi).

   [For warming up] If the Mahdi was the Messiah, the Prophet would have said
the Messiah the Mahdi "almaseeh almahdiy".

>In other words, the apearance of the Mahdi is so important for the 
>fulfilment of th eobject of the creation of the world that he will, 
>definitely, without doubt, be made to appear before the world comes to an 
>end.

   That Hadith is not Sahih, so we do not know whether the Prophet said this
or it was modified along the way to us. I doubt such an "important issue to
the object of creation of the universe" be so ignored by narraters so that
it is not reported in Sahih Bukhari or Muslim (not to mention Koran).

>      "He (the Messiah and Mahdi) will fill the world with justice and 
>       virtue in place of the injustice and iniquity that would have
>       engulfed the world."

   He really "did." I am living in more justice than I can take. In fact,
we are drowning and suffocating in the sea of justice. Ask anyone about it.

>It must be stated with all the emphasis at our command that if Allah would
>allow this horrible condition of Muslims to persist without taking any 
>remedial steps to arrest the situation, if Allah would permit Muslims to
>divide inot 73 sects without any move to unite them, if Allah would allow
>such unprecedented moral degeneration of Muslims without raising a Reformer
>to reform them, then, there can be no justification in describing Muslims
>as:
>    "the best community that has been raised for mankind."
>                                       (Quran   3:111).

   That same verse explained the meaning of best nation: recommending good
deeds and denouncing bad deeds, once the nation left that they are the
worst nation as you can now see.

>In that case, Islam may be linked to, in the words of the Mahdi, a beautiful
>garden that has been abandoned by its owner so that, for lack of care, it
>withers away and its charming and sweet smelling flowers fall off.

   And we are the owner, not God, this is a test for us, not for Him.

[Deletion]

>There are those who say that the Traditions which deal with the advent of 
>the Promised Messiah and Mahdi are weak adn ureliable. This is a later
>development otherwise the truth is, the appearance of the Mahdi in the latter
>days was so stressed by the Holy Prophet that it had become a cardinal part 
>of the faith of every Muslim.

   We can not take this for granted just because you say so, you are more
unreliable than those legends.

>Another thing in this connection which is worthy of note are the prophecies
>about the advent of the Promised Messiah and Mahdi which are not confined
>to the traditions only. The Holy Quran also prophesies his advent.

>One of the signs mentioned in the Hadith to herald the appearnce of the
>Promised Messiah is that a time would come when the camel which used to be
>the most reliable and efficient means of transport in Arabia would be
>abandoned and when that tiem comes, we should know that the time of the
>appearnce of the Mahdi is at hand.  (Majma' Bihar, Vol III P.165, 
>Mishkaat Bab Nuzul Issa Ibn Maryam).

   That happened probably 20 years ago or a bit more.

>This same sign has been mentioned in the Holy Quran: when the she-camels,
>ten months pregnant, are abondoned. (81:5).

   That is when the Hour is in progress, like when every pregnant misdelivers
and you see people like drunk but they are not and so on.

>The Holy Prophet Muhammad is reported to have said:

>   "What will be your condition when the Son of Mary, will descend among
>    you and he will be your Imam from among you"
>                          (Sahih Bukhari, Bab Nuzul Issa Ibn Maryam).

   Can you see that you are unreliable at best and a liar who was promised
Hell by the Prophet at worst? The Prophet did not say so, he said: "wa
imamukum minkum" == "and your imam is one of you," i.e. the Messiah won't
claim leadership (he won't run for the state).

>From this Tradition, it has been wrongly inferred that Jesus has been kept
>alive for nearly 2000 years in the skies and that he will come again in the
>latter days for the reformation of mankind, including Muslims.

   And you are to correct this illusion and silly confusion? Do you think
he is in Heaven dead? (If you do not believe he is in Heaven see the
Hadiths about Isra' and Mi'raj.)

[Deletion]

>It is suggested that while the Holy Prophet, the best of creation, the one
>individual who is the cause of the creation of the entire universe, has
>tasted of death like all other prophets, but Jesus, son of Mary, has been 
>kept alive in the heavens for as long as 1900 years?

   I testify that the Prophet is the best of people, but I do not know for
sure if he is the best of all creatures, nor that he is the cause of
creating the whole universe, God said He created us to worship him, not for
Muhammad! By the way, what is wrong by this believe? Do you also know that
the Prophet died and Satan is still alive? This is "more degrading!"

>We read in the Holy Quran:
> 
>    "We granted not everlasting life to any human being before thee.
>     If then thou shouldst die, shall they live here for ever."
>                                                   (21:35)

   So, he is going to die, but this does not imply that all humans must
die before the Prophet, does it?

>Finally I ask those Muslims who hold such opinions to consider the verse:

>    "And He will teach him th ebook and the Wisdom and Torah and the 
>     Gospel. And will make him a Messenger to the Children of Israel."
>                                             (3:49-50)

>Should he come again as a Messenger for the whole of mankind, are those
>Muslims going to alter this verse from the Holy Quran and insert:

>               "A Messenger to the whole world?"

   I and the Muslims I know do not say that he will be a Messenger to us nor
the whole world nor even Christians, he will be the Messiah not carrying any
Message, he will rule by Islam.

>When one ponders over the Hadith which foretells the second coming of Jesus,
>one finds that the solution of this matter is contained in the very Hadith
>itself. The Holy Prophet of Islam (peace be upon him) was so perfect in his
>diction that nobody dares suggest other meanings to what he said.

   Isn't it amazing that you still dare?

>The literal translation of the hadith is what will be your condition when
>Jesus, son of Mary, will appear FROM AMONG YOU and will be your Imam FROM
>AMONG YOU?

   I pointed above, that this is a lie; he did not say so, I just checked
Bukhari an hour ago!

>The phrase "FROM AMONG YOU" occuring *TWICE* in the same Hadith clearly
>shows that the Mahdi wsa to appear from among Muslims themselves and not 
>from among another community of people.

>It also means that the Mahdi was to be from among the living on earth and 
>would not be an earlier prophet descending from the sky.

   And yet called Jesus son of Mary!

>When Jesus was asked about Elijah who, according to prophecy, was to descend
>fron heaven before him, his answer was the Elijah had already come in the
>spirit of John the Baptist.
>                        (Matt.17:10-13; Mark 8:11-13; Luke 1:17).

   Why do not you also quote the verses stating that Jesus is son of God?
Nasir, you use this when you discuss with Christians, must I remind you
that I am a Muslim and do not consider even Shiite literature to be
reliable, do you think I would rely on the Bible?

>This clearly shows that whenever a prophecy referring to the descent of any
>prophet means that somebody else will come in his spirit and power.

   Isn't it degrading that the spirit of Jesus Christ the Messenger of
God reside in the body of a "subordinate prophet", was he promoted
downwards?

>The question also arises of the possibility of a prophet coming after the
>Holy Prophet of Islam (peace be upon him). It was the Holy Prophet himself
>who called the promissed Mahdi to come "Issa" (Jesus) which makes it clear
>that the expected Mahdi was to be a prophet.

   I pointed above that the Prophet never said that Messiah = Mahdi, in fact
is some Hadith (I do not know how reliable it is) he said, it won't be
doomed a nation whom I am in its beginning, Mahdi in its middle and Jesus
in its end.

>In as Hadith in Muslim, the Holy Prophet referred to the Mahdi as a Prophet
>as many as FOUR times:

>    "The Prophet of Allah, Issa, and his Companions will be besieged...
>     then Issa, Prophet of Alah, and his Companions will turn to Allah.....
>     then Issa, Prophet of Allah and his Companions will invade the camps
>     of the enemy....and again, Issa the Prophet of Allah, and his
>     Companions will turn to Allah".
>                                    (Muslim, Bab Zikrul Dajjal).

   Jesus is a person and Mahdi is another person, just like apple and orange
are not the same fruit.

>There is yet another Hadith:

>    "There is no Prophet between me and him. He will definitely appear. So
>     when he does appear, you should recognize him."
>                                    (Abu Daud Kitabul Malahim).

   I do not know about this Hadith but the one in Bukhari means there is
no prophets after Jesus and before him as stated in Koran "ala fatratin
min arrusul".

>The truth is, the verse in which the Holy Prophet is referred to as Khatam-
>un-Nabiyyin, was revealed some FIVE YEARS *BEFORE* his son, Ibrahim, died.
>Yet on the death of Hazart Ibrahim, the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) is
>reported to have said:

>    "If Ibrahim had lived, he would certainly have been a true Prophet."
>                                   (Ibn-e-Maja, Kitabul Janaiz).

>If no Prophet could come after him, he would not have said that if Ibrahim
>had lived he would have been a prophet.

   How about this logic: live(son) --> prophet(son)
                         ~prophet(x)           where x is after Muhammad
       ==>               ~live(son) or prophet(son)
       now substitue son for x
                         ~prophet(son)
       now prophet(son) cancels ~prophet(son) and you are left with
                         ~live(son)

   In words, since if he lived he would have been a prophet, and there can't
be a prophet so he couldn't live.

>Some of our friends have said that Allah caused him to die because He did
>not want him to become a prophet.

>*NOTHING* can be more ridiculous and derogatory to God than such an opinion,
>for it  this is to be accepted, it will mean that GOd had forgotten His
>Own revelation that there was to be no Prophet after the Holy Prophet and
>so it was after Hazrat Ibrahim had been born that He remembered His promise
>and, therefore, caused him to die.

>Is any Muslim prepared to accept such a course of thinking? No. Never!

   Of course, not! We accept that God knew since for ever that Ibrahim will
die before puberty.

>What is important to note in this connection is that just as Jesus came 
>without a new law but to serve the law of Moses so also was the Mahdi not to
>bring any new law but to serve the law of the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him)

   You are mistaken here, Jesus did change the law of Moses as God said in
Koran, Let Jews rule by the Torah and let the Christians rule by the
Gospel. [I do not remember in what verse but I think it is something in
Maidah or the surrounding suras.]

>And this is exactly the claim of Hazrat Mieza Ghulam Ahmed, the Promissed
>Messiah. He says:

>     "Whatever my spiritual attainment, I have attained it through the
>      blessing of the master Prophet, Muhammad Mustapha (peace be upon him).
>                                            (Durri Samin Urdu).

   The blessing of Muhammad is warning us about liars, having liars is not
a blessing.

>And this also is the view expressed by eminent Companions of the Holy Prophet
>of Islam, including Hazrat Ayesha and distinguished Muslim divines and saints
>after them.
[Deletion]
>Hazrat Ayesha is reported to have said:
>     "Say, by all means that he is Khatamun Nabiyyin, but do no say there
>      will be no Prophet after him."
>                       (Durri Manthur, Vol. 5; Takmila Majma-al-Bihar, p.85).

   OK! This is what her husband (PBUH) said. Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet
PBUH said: "The Israelis used to be ruled and guided by prophets: Whenever a
prophet died another would take over his place. There will be no prophets
after me, but there will be Caliphs who will increase in number."
                                          Bukhari: The Prophets: Banu Israel.

>Hazrat Sheikh Muhiuddin Ibn Arabi is also reported to have said:
>     "The prophethood that has ceased after the Messenger of Allah, on whom
>      be peace, is the prophethood with a new law. And this is the meaning
>      of his saying: 'Messenger-ship and Prophethood have ceased; so there
>      will be no Messenger after me.' All that this saying means is, there
>      will be no Prophet after me who will abrogate my law so that any 
>      Prophet who will appear will be bound by my law."
>                                      (Fatuhate-Makkiyya, p.100)

   This is silly because Messengership = Prophethood + Law. So when he said
no prophets, no messengers that meant neither without law nor with it.
For example, Joseph (PBUH) was a prophet but he was not a messenger and did
not carry any law (just Abraham's [PBUH] law). That is why God said
"Khatam an-Nabiyyeen" = the last of prophets since every messenger is a
prophet then he was the last of both. Forget all the silly references that
you quote for betraying people and showing them that prophethood did not
cease.

>******************
>A MENTION OF SIGNS
>******************

[Deletion]

>For instance there is the Hadith:
>    "The Promissed Messiah will apear beside a white minaret to the east of
>     Damascus."
>                                     (Kanzul Ummal, Vol.7, p.202)

>There are those who would want it to appear that the Promissed Messiah was
>to DESCEND on a white minaret IN Damascus. But the Hadith does not say so.
>What the Hadith says in plain words is: "besides a white minaret to the east
>of Damascus". Now, take a world map and study the location of Qadian. It
>is exactly to the east of Damascus!!!

   Yeah! And if it was to the west of Damascus, you would have said, the
earth is a sphere! Why was he specific to say a white minaret? Why not say
to the east of Damascus (not to mention Iraq and Persia). It is like you say
you walk a hundred steps to the east and the building is ahead of you (you
mean a couple of hundred miles ahead)! And also I assume that you interpret
appear to mean be seen i.e. just pass by a white minaret. If you were right
he would say be born beside a minaret of whatever, not apear or descend.

>And it is to this that this Hadith also refers:

>    "The Mahdi will appear in a town the name of which will be Qada'a."
>                                   (Jawahirul Asraar, p.55).

   Use credible references, not every cheap corrupted infamous book
in the world. Is this book a Kuran or something or compiled by a prophet?

>So that the Holy Prophet did not only tell us the location of the Mahdi's
>appearance, he even went to the extent of telling us the name of the town
>from where he was to appear!

   Does not it contradict that he said to the east of Damascus intending
by thousands of miles while giving the name of the town. You also still
mix between the Mahdi and Jesus.

>The Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) also gave us the description of
>the appearance of Mahdi:
>    "I saw in a vision that I was making the circuits round the Ka'aba. I
>     suddenly was a man of wheat colour and his hair was straight and long."
>                              (Bukhari, Vol. II, Kitab Bad-el-Khalaq).

   The description of Jesus Christ (and just a few sentences later, 
the Dajjal).

>Now this is the perfect photograph of Hazrat Ahmed.
>The coulor of his skin was wheat colour and his hair was straight and long,
>exactly as indicated in the prophecy.

   And did not he also say somewhere else, his name is same as mine and
his father's name is same as my father's?
   Do not go as far as believing yourself.

>*************
>ANOTHER SIGN:
>*************
>Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) proceeded further to give us a sign the
>like of which has not occured since the creation of the heavens and the 
>earth, as proof of the appearance of any Prophet:

>   "For our Mahdi there shall be two signs which have never happened for any
>    one else since the creation of the heavens and the earth: At his advent
>    there shall occur an eclipse of the moon in the first of its appointed
>    nights and an eclipse of the sun on the middle one of its appointed
>    dates and both will occur in the month of Ramzan."
>                                     (Darqutni, p.188)
>The same prophecy is to be found in the Holy Quran:
>   "And the moon is eclipsed and the sun and the moon are brought together."
>                                      (75:9-10)

   Also that verse happens when the Hour is in progress. The Prophet said
in several Sahih Hadiths that the eclipse of moon or sun are signs of God
and they do not happen for the life or death of anybody.

>Both the Holy Quran and the Hadith are one in proclaiming that for the 
>Promissed Messiah, God will manifest two spectacular signs the like of 
>which has not been manifested in favour of any other claimint to prophethood.
>And it is that within one month, and the month will be Ramadhan, there will
>be both an eclipse of the moon and then the eclipse of the sun!!!

   The Mahdi was not mentioned in Koran and in that sura even the Messiah was
not mentioned, how dare you claim that Koran said this about his signs?

[Deletions about eclipse and such]

>The condition of the times was pointing to the need of a Reformer. So he
>came. Truly he said:

>     "The time was quite ripe for the appearance of Messiah. Even if I had
>      not come somebody else would have come."
>                                               (Durri Sameen)
   I think he came (with much pun intended).

>The Hadith clearly mentions two such tasks. One of the tasks was teh breaking
>of the Cross while the other was the killing of the swine.
>                                 (Bukhari, bab Nuzul Issa Ibn Maryam).

>It is erroneously beleived that by "breaking of the Cross" it was meant 
>that the Mahdi would go from place to place breaking all the crosses 
>wherever he would find them.
>What a strange job for a prophet!

   Breaking one cross and killing one swine is sufficient. We do not think
he will do as you portray us to think.

>The breaking of the cross meant that the Promissed Messiah would disprove 
>with incontrovertible arguments of the false doctrines of Christianity
>which revolve round the crucifixion of Jesus i.e. that Jesus was the son
>of God who was sent to the world to die on the cross to atone for the sins
>of mankind.

   Indeed, he proved, ask any Christian about it!

>Nor can the Mahdi's "Killing of swine" be taken literally. All that is 
>meant by his "killing of swine" is that he would expose the shameless and
>immoral practices and concepts that would have become widespread among the
>Christian nations during the time of his appearance.
>This task was also accomplished at the hands of hazrat Ahmad.

   How do we know that you are not giving you fertile interpretation only?

>Another task of the Promissed Messiah, as mentioned by the Holy Prophet
>was to bring back faith which would have ascended to the Pleiades at the 
>time of his advent.       (Bukahri, Kitabul Tafseer bab Tafseer Sura Juma).

   Don't lie! The Prophet put his hand on Salman and said, even if faith was
as high as the Pleiades, some men of those will get it. I.e. Non-Arabs
will embrace Islam too.

>The Holy Quran affirms the fate that awaits a false claimant to prophethood:
>     "And if he had forged and attributed any sayings to Us,
>      We sould surely have seized him by the right hand,
>      And then surely We sould have severed his life-artery,
>      And not one of you could have held Us off from him."
>                                          (69:45-48).

   This addressed Muhammad (PBUH) that if he inserted anything into Islam
he would be punished severely, it may also refer to other TRUE prophets,
but in no way does it refer to liars. Examples, Musailama, Sujah, Aswad,
Mutanabbi and many others, what did God do to them? How dare you expand
the meaning according to your wordly desires?

**Nabeel