HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: neal@mnopltd.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: Re: MicroSoft buys Fox Software!
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:43:19 GMT
Reply-To: emory!mnopltd!neal
Organization: MNOP Ltd., Atlanta, Ga.


->>I don't think so.  Microsoft has a (I think) 30% ownership of SCO, so it
->>might actually happen.  SCO do have Microsoft word, and the standard
->>SCO Development system comes with Microsoft C 6.0.
->>
->But then, I have a dozen or so folks trying to use Microsoft Word on
->an SCO Xenix box day to day.... I ain't holding out much hope for a
->usable FoxPro, even if they port it. :)
->+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
->| Brig C. McCoy                 --  "Standard disclaimers"        |
->+-----------------------------------------------------------------+

Frank Paterson in the local Fox office in atlanta tells me he has gotten 
assurances that the unix port of Foxpro is real and will happen.  

Nobody who has ever followed Microsoft's development schedule would ever
bother to ask or listen to the response to the question "when?".

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neal Rhodes                       MNOP Ltd                     (404)- 972-5430
President                Lilburn (atlanta) GA 30247             Fax:  978-4741
                             emory!mnopltd!neal 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: terrya@MCES.MsState.Edu (Terry Arnsdorff)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: Re: Foxpro - File Not Found Error
Date: 8 Apr 92 21:08:39 GMT
Organization: Mississippi Cooperative Extension Service

In article <1992Apr8.033947.22312@acsu.buffalo.edu> v064qpfu@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Christopher S. D'Arrigo) writes:


>Hello to all,
>       Currently we are runnign Foxpro 1.2 at the office on a
>     Netware Lan system.  I have noticed that whenever Foxpro starts
>    up on the network It  always gives an error first of FILE WAS NOT
>   Found. yet if I press enter, I can continue with the application.
>   I dont know if its of any consequence but:

>   1) Each application has its own subdirectory under Foxpro
>      and the Foxpro Directory has been added to the search path

>      For Example:

>        F:/Foxpro/Payroll
>     and PATH F:\;C:\;F:\Network; F:\Foxpro

>   2) When I run Foxpro on our standalone station (used for Program
>      development) I dont get this error ( The standalone station uses
>       the same direcoty structure as above and Foxpro Root is added
>       to the path)

>      I know this is probably a long shot,but Does anyone know what file
>      its referring to?  If so where is this file and how can I tell 
>      Foxpro  where to find it.

>      By the way, Im using Foxpro Lan 1.2 if that matters.. 

>Thanks in advance,
>*************************************************************************
>Christopher D'Arrigo
>SUNY@Buffalo
>IN%"V064QPFU@UBVMSB"
>**************************************************************************


I ran into the same problem.  Something got trashed in your FOXUSER file.  
If you clean that file out, the problem will go away.

Terry

.--------------------------------.---------------------------------.
|  Terry Arnsdorff               |                                 |
|  <terrya@mces.msstate.edu>     |                                 |
|  LAN Manager                   |  "When all think alike,         |
|  Mississippi Cooperative       |       No one thinks very much"  |
|    Extension Service           |             Walter Lippman      |
|  Mississippi State University  |                                 |
`--------------------------------'---------------------------------'
Xref: sparky comp.databases:4165 comp.databases.informix:795
From: briand@anasaz (Brian Douglass)
Newsgroups: comp.databases,comp.databases.informix
Subject: Database Schema SCCS?
Keywords: Database
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:47:38 GMT
Followup-To: briand@anasaz.com
Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, AZ, USA

I'm looking for some software, either commercial or something someone has
written, that will allow me to keep track of database schemas, and the
changes made to the schema (add this table, delete this field, change this
field from smallint to integer, etc) and allow me to version them.  

I'm looking for something more than just flat files under SCCS.  Something
more akin to a Data Dictionary that is maintained in the DBMS, along with
descriptions of fields for documentation, and can allow me to say, "I want
Ver 1.6 of the database for Customer X, and 2.6 for Customer Y."

Any ideas?


-- 
"You want to know what's scary?  The Third World has 12 new members and
some of them are nuclear armed!"  Former US intelligence officer.

Brian Douglass			briand%anasaz.UUCP@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
				602-870-3330 X657
From: ptm@milla.ee.tut.fi (M{kinen Pasi Tapani)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: C++ class library database needed.
Date: 16 Apr 92 10:35:18 GMT
Organization: Tampere Univ. of Tech
Originator: ptm@milla.ee.tut.fi


I need a database class library to be used in C++.
I will use it mainly to save and read data from disk. Data will be eg.
technical information describing an instrument, information describing
experts expertice area, but database may be also used in more
complicated applications. Class library may be object-oriented but a
relational database will also do and may be better suited to my needs.

I will used it with Windows 3 and Turbo C++.

Does anyone know where to get information about CodeBase++?

If i get enough information I will summarise. Thanks in advance.

---
Tampere University of Technology / Measurement Technology
Pasi Makinen                       email: ptm@milla.ee.tut.fi
P.O.BOX 692			   Phone: +358 31 161 573
SF-33101 Finland                   fax:   +358 31 162 171
---
From: neve@ursp04.csb (Leif Neve, CEB)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: Training Recommendations Wanted
Keywords: training, books
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:43:59 GMT
Reply-To: neve@ursp04.csb
Organization: National Library of Medicine

Can anyone recommend a good course or book(s) that would help someone get their rdbms
feet wet? There is a chance we'll use the Berkeley dbms called Postgres  on a project and it
comes with no training of any kind. 

I want to learn about rdbms CONCEPTS, rather than focusing on SQL or any particular product.
However, if a particular VENDOR has a good course in rdbms fundamentals, I would be  interested.

--Leif Neve
neve@nlm.nih.gov
Newsgroups: comp.databases
From: cdm@pmafire.inel.gov (Dale Cook)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 15:58:41 GMT
Organization: WINCO
Subject: Re: E-R modelling ?= 5th Normal Form
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Organization: WINCO
Keywords: 

In article <1992Apr17.031944.19377@athena.mit.edu> eprice@sql.sybase.com writes:
>
>Models of reality are always a matter of taste.  However, I think
>there is far too much emphasis on "heirarchical" structures in RDBMS
>design.  The R in RDBMS means "relational"! In fact, "Employment" is a
>*relationship* between a person and an organzation.  Why not model it
>that way?  For example:
>
>ORGANIZATION (ID, NAME, ...)
>PERSON (ID, NAME, ...)
>EMPLOYEE (ID, ORGANIZATION-ID, PERSON-ID, START-DATE, END-DATE)
>
>Now there is none of this stupid dominant/subordinate issue to worry
>about.
>

While I agree with your distaste for forcing models into hierarchical
schemes, the real point here is that talk of hierarchies really has
no place in an ER/logical model.  Hierarchies are physical structures. 
One can implement any good logical model in any physical database
structure.  It just so happens that some DBMS's _are_ hierarchical,
forcing a hierarchical implementation.

Your PERSON entity above is only valid if the business *cares 
about and keeps information about* a generic person, and very few 
actually do.  Otherwise it's useless confusing clutter.  Eliminating
the PERSON entity above would not preclude a relation between employee
and organization.  Furthermore, if the business did want a PERSON entity,
EMPLOYEE would probably be a subtype of it.  Your EMPLOYEE entity above
would actually be closer to an EMPLOYMENT event, or perhaps a relationship
between PERSON and ORGANIZATION.

>I generally try to stay out of these kinds of discussions... 

Why?  I think they're informative and challenging...

> but I
>have seen far too many people who build really stupid applications
>because they were not thinking in terms of entity-relationships but in
>entity-heirarchies.
>

No argument here.  

>As an aside:  this applies perhaps even more strongly to the design of
>a front end to a database.  I *hate* front ends that are based on a
>"screen heirarchy".  I want to be able to traverse the relationships
>between the entities in the database.  Seems reasonable to me!

Of course, some people prefer it the other way, and would say you're
unreasonable :-)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
...Dale Cook    "There is no animal so spooky as the True Believer."
                   ---Edward Abbey
The opinions are mine only (i.e., they are NOT my employer's)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: saint@mitchell.hac.com (Kathy Saint)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: Looking for a heterogeneous database server
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:26:57 GMT
Reply-To: saint@mitchell.hac.com (Kathy Saint)
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Company


Like the subject says, we're looking for a database server that can access
several databases of different types (i.e., relational, hierarchical, textual).

If something like this exists, I'd appreciate a reply.

Thanks in advance,
Kathy.

==============================================================================
Kathy Saint             ||  "She's a witch!! She's a witch!!."
"I'm not dead yet."     ||  "How can you tell she's a witch?"
                        ||  "She looks like one!!"
saint@mitchell.hac.com  ||      - "Monthy Python & the Holy Grail"
From: cnb@cnbisis.lerctr.org (Nelson Baird)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: Re: Network data model (IDMS/Focus) - what is it?
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 00:39:26 CDT
Organization: ISIS, Inc, Ferris TX

SMITHBS@PURCCVM.BITNET (Barry Smith) writes:

> I will be working for GEIS this summer and want to "study up" on some
> concepts I will be dealing with.  Does anyone have any documents on
> what a Network Data Model is?  I will be working with this model in IDMS
> and Focus.
  If you will  look up CODASYL in your CS archives you will find definitions 
of the ANSI (or similaR) committees that created the standard.  IDMS is a 
fairly direct implementation of the standard.  The Association of Computing 
Machinery DB publications of the time are wuite full of the discussions 
look at mid to late 70's.   
 
If you go to a "good" commercially oriented computer or technical book store 
you can find several good (and current) books on the subject.  Several of 
the books may be on "ADSO" which is a "fourth generation" language 
implmented in the DC portion of IDMS.  

The vendor has some OK books about the system.  The vendor is Computer 
Associates.  For the DB side you would like to look at DB operations, and 
the Programmers reference (note that there are language specific references
as well).  
 
I would be willing to answer "short" Q & A.   I am an ex-IDMS DBA, internals 
developer, application developer, and system designer.  Currently my real 
interests run more to distributed OODBMS's.   Sometimes I still make a 
living with IDMS, I am a consultant.

Thanks, 
Nelson

Newsgroups: comp.databases
From: cedr132@hermes.chpc.utexas.edu (Ta-Yin Hu)
Subject: Summary of RDBMS on UNIX 
Keywords: RDBMS 
Organization: The University of Texas System - CHPC
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 16:55:51 GMT


Hi :

   After asked the question about RDBM on UNIX, I received several
   messages about RDBMS. Thank You all !!                          
   These information are listed as follows :

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Gene bock@pollux.usc.edu

Ingres running on UNIX.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ethan.Lish@THINC.COM _____ 1.301.652.0651 _____ {mimsy,uunet}!thinc!ethan
               ======================================
                  Sources of PROGRESS Information
               ======================================
Electronic:
	PROGRESS EMail Group - internet Q/A Mailer 
		Tomorrow's Horizons, Inc. (THINC)
		(1.301.652.0651)
		Access: progress-list-request@uunet.uu.net
	PROGRESS ON-LINE - PC Bulletin Board
		Progress Software Corp.
		(1.617.275.4500)
		Access: 1.617.275.4666 @ 1200/2400 baud
	PROMPT-FORum - PC Bulletin Board
		Vanguard Computer Services, Ltd.
		(1.215.642.5000)
		Access: 1.215.446.4035 @ 1200/2400 baud
Printed:
	John Campbell's Programmer's Progress
		White Star Software 
		(1.415.857.0686)
	Patricia Seybold's UNIX IN THE OFFICE Vol. 5 No. 9 September 1990
		"The Progress 4GL and RDBMS"
		Patricia Seybold's Office Computing Group
		(1.617.742.5200)
	DataPro 70 March 1990 SW25-734WC-101
		"Progress Software Corp."
		DataPro Research Group
		(1.609.764.0100)

	Database Product Reports
		MIC Review
		(1.609.428.1020)

	PROGRESS Software Corp.
		PROGRESS Documentation Series,
		PROGRESS Technical Bulletin ,
		PROGRESS User's Conference Proceedings,
		Profiles in PROGRESS Magazine
		(1.800.4.Progress or 1.617.275.4500)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
klassen@sol.UVic.CA (Melvin Klassen)

One such product is 'SIR/DBMS' from SIR (USA) Inc., in Deerfield, Illinois.
Telephone: 1-708-480-9270.
The same software also runs under VAX/VMS, VM/CMS, MVS/XA, MS DOS, Cray, etc.
------------------------------------------------------------------
leo@ine.philips.nl

Take a look at Oracle for instance. We here use it on Pyramid, Suns,
VAXes (Ultrix). We also have versions for PC and for VAX/VMS systems.

------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Nevermind@cup.portal.com (Jon J Jones)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: **Q&A4 Database recovery problem.
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 23:27:25 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa

I have a Database in Q&A4 that gave me an error saying that the file was not
properly closed and i should run the recovery program.  Well, I did and it
locks up on the 4th(of 8) pass in the process...  any ideas?

Nevermind@cup.portal.com
From: romulos@anuenue.cba.hawaii.edu (SAIDY, TAMIM A.)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: RE: dBASE IV APPLICATION GENERATOR
Date: 8 Apr 92 02:48:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: anuenue.romulos.3
Organization: SML Student Network, CBA/UH

I used dbase IV's application generator to create several menus for a 
database.  The menus work fine, but I can't get the files to come up 
individually.  For instance when I do an update, it brings up the 
first file and then I can use page down to look at the rest of the files.  
I was wondering if I can make it bring up one file at a time for updates.  
For example I could give it the a records primary key and it would bring up 
only that record for updates.

I would appreciate any information on this subject.

Thanks in Advance.
Xref: sparky comp.databases:4047 news.groups:9663
From: walt@mathcs.emory.edu (Walt Hultgren {rmy})
Newsgroups: comp.databases,news.groups
Subject: comp.databases.theory
Summary: Request for old articles.
Date: 7 Apr 92 14:30:54 GMT
Reply-To: walt@mathcs.emory.edu
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Emory University

I recently stumbled onto a 2nd CFV for comp.databases.theory in
news.announce.newgroups.  Talk about getting out of touch in a hurry!
I've only had time recently to skim a few key newsgroups, so I apparently
missed the run-up and the RFD.

I e-mailed several people who regularly post here, and they knew little
or nothing about it either.  So, I don't feel so bad.

If you saved any of the discussion on the proposed newsgroup, or know of
an anon ftp archive, I'd appreciate your sending me the articles/pointers.

BTW, the vote is scheduled to end April 12.

Thanks,

Walt.

-- 
Walt Hultgren             Internet: walt@mathcs.emory.edu   (IP 128.140.2.1)
Emory University              UUCP: {...,gatech,rutgers,uunet}!emory!walt
954 Gatewood Road, NE       BITNET: walt@EMORY
Atlanta, GA  30329  USA      Voice: +1 404 727 0648
From: sarb@usace.mil (Sarbjit Takhar)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: Re: Terra Data -info wanted!
Keywords: Terra Data -info wanted!
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:49:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: usace.1992Apr6.174904.15280
Organization: US Army Corps of Engineers, Sacramento District

You may want to contact your local NCR rep since they
now own TeraData ...

Teradata is a parallel machine based on x86 CPUs that processes
SQL queries from other front end machines.  

For what it does, it is a very, very fast machine ..

sarb
From: primrose@acs.ucalgary.ca (David Primrose)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: Source code formatter for xBASE
Keywords: SNAP
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:47:46 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta
Followupto: primrose@acs.uc.ca


	Does anyone know where I can download the most recent
version of SNAP!, the shareware xBase source code formatter?
Please reply by e-mail. Thanks in advance.
Xref: sparky comp.databases:4088 comp.object:1722
From: blm@6sceng.UUCP (Brian Matthews)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: Re: E-R modelling ?= 5th Normal Form
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:54:59 GMT
Organization: Six Sigma CASE, Inc.

In article <1992Apr1.172313.19274@linus.mitre.org> vv@mbunix.mitre.org (Ventrone) writes:
|This thread has been quite interesting--particularly in that there seems to be
|an underlying assumption that ER models are ONLY useful as design tools for
|implementing a relational database.  That is probably how the technique is
|most commonly used, but I believe the primary advantage of creating an ER model
|at all is to provide an abstract view of data in some Universe of Discourse 
|(indeed, I think that was the motivation of Chen's original paper).

One of my points about the differences between ARDs and ERDs was that
ERDs are very good for communicating and documenting things, because
they're fairly high level and abstract.

|I think it is useful to separate
|these two:  the model and the implementation of the model.

Yes, they should be separate.  However, in most cases, once you have the
model, it will be necessary to actually implement it.  If the design has
to be translated manually, a big source of errors is introduced.  There
can be errors in translation or understanding of the original design,
the translation may be correct in the translators mind but get screwed
up before it reaches his or her fingers :-), and probably the most
common problem, modifications will be made to the implementation without
making the same changes to the design.  This is why I've always claimed
that a design methodology that can't be automatically translated to an
implementation is fundamentally flawed.  That's not to say the methodology
is useless, just that its not nearly as useful as it could be.

So, in the case of ERDs, although they are a useful high-level design
and documentation technique, they open up a big source of errors because
they must be translated by hand to an actual implementation.  That's why
I prefer ARDs - they provide enough documentation of the design for
most people, yet can be normalized and made into an actual implementation -
all automatically.  If the higher-level is needed, ERDs and ARDs can be
combined to provide the best of both worlds, which brings us back almost
to the beginning of this thread :-)
-- 
Brian L. Matthews	blm@6sceng.UUCP
From: jbell@garnet.berkeley.edu (John E. Bell)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: Need a persistent collection in C++
Date: 13 Apr 92 18:00:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.sci81INN55i
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu
Originator: jbell@garnet.berkeley.edu

I am looking for an implementation of a persistent collection class in
C++. That is, a class of arbitrary objects that is buffered and is stored
to a disk file. My primary interest is on the Macintosh, but I would
like to know about other platforms as well.

Does something like this exist commercially or as free/shareware? Is
this topic covered in any literature?

Thanks - John E. Bell
         Instructional Technology Program
         UC Berkeley
Newsgroups: comp.databases
From: rjc@oghma.ocunix.on.ca (Robert J Carter)
Subject: Re: E-R modelling ?= 5th Normal Form
Organization: Oghma Systems, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 07:03:39 GMT

In article <875@6sceng.UUCP> blm@6sceng.UUCP (Brian Matthews) writes:
>In article <1992Apr1.172313.19274@linus.mitre.org> vv@mbunix.mitre.org (Ventrone) writes:
>|This thread has been quite interesting--particularly in that there seems to be
>|an underlying assumption that ER models are ONLY useful as design tools for
>|implementing a relational database.  That is probably how the technique is
>|most commonly used, but I believe the primary advantage of creating an ER model
>|at all is to provide an abstract view of data in some Universe of Discourse 
>|(indeed, I think that was the motivation of Chen's original paper).
>
>One of my points about the differences between ARDs and ERDs was that
>ERDs are very good for communicating and documenting things, because
>they're fairly high level and abstract.
>
>|I think it is useful to separate
>|these two:  the model and the implementation of the model.
>
>Yes, they should be separate.  However, in most cases, once you have the
>model, it will be necessary to actually implement it.  If the design has
>to be translated manually, a big source of errors is introduced.  
>Brian L. Matthews	blm@6sceng.UUCP


But arn't you ignoring databases that directly impliment the ER model, like
ZIM?
-- 
|=================================================================| ttfn!
| Robert J Carter           Oghma Systems         Ottawa, Ontario | @     @
| Phone: (613) 565-2840                    rjc@oghma.ocunix.on.ca |   * *
|=================================================================|  \___/
From: cimshop!davidm@uunet.UU.NET (David S. Masterson)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: Re: Can E-R express this?
Date: 6 Apr 92 22:07:47 GMT
Organization: Consilium Inc., Mountain View, California
In-reply-to: Mischa_Sandberg@mindlink.bc.ca's message of 5 Apr 92 05:01:17 GMT
X-Posting-Software: GNUS 3.13  [ NNTP-based News Reader for GNU Emacs ]

>>>>> On 5 Apr 92 05:01:17 GMT, Mischa_Sandberg@mindlink.bc.ca (Mischa
>>>>> Sandberg) said:

> In the  following, my shorthand is TABLE<PRIMARY KEY> NON-KEY ATTRIBUTES.

> ORDER<ORDER#>
> ORDER_DETAIL<ORDER#, PRODUCT#>
> INVOICE<INVOICE#> ORDER#
> INVOICE_DETAIL<INVOICE#, PRODUCT#>

> i.e. there is a one-to-many relationship between:

> ORDER and INVOICE
> ORDER and ORDER_DETAIL
> INVOICE and INVOICE_DETAIL

> ... with which E-R diagrams have no problem. On the other hand, there is the
> referential integrity constraint that an INVOICE_DETAIL must have an
> ORDER_DETAIL. I can expres this algebraically, but the client doesn't dig
> algebra. What am I missing?

ORDER_DETAIL and INVOICE_DETAIL are many to many related on PRODUCT# (I assume
you have a PRODUCT entity to go with this).  The referential integrity
constraint says that ORDER_DETAIL and INVOICE_DETAIL must participate in this
relationship.  Ultimately, what this says is that any PRODUCT that was ORDERed
must have also been INVOICEd (a little strange time sequence in that the
invoice would usually come after the order, but if that's what the customer
wants... ;-)
--
====================================================================
David Masterson					Consilium, Inc.
(415) 691-6311					640 Clyde Ct.
uunet!cimshop!davidm				Mtn. View, CA  94043
====================================================================