From: carroll@hercules.cis.udel.edu (Mark C. Carroll)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
Subject: Re: Who Are The Crowd Most Likely To Set Up Death Camps? (Was Re: Colorado Letter)
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:52:20 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark

In article <13111@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>In article <1992Nov8.182500.21749@udel.edu>, carroll@hercules.cis.udel.edu (Mark C. Carroll) writes:
># Homosexuals are just like any group. They've got their murderers,
># rapists, thiefs, radicals, and lunatics, just like the rest of us.
># That doesn't mean that they are ALL murderers, rapists, thieves,
># radicals, and lunatics.
>
>They have more than their share of child molesters, though.
>

You have yet to show one single shred of evidence to support that.

You've posted fragmentary references to a poor subset of available
evidence, using incomplete definitions. On the basis of this, you
STILL can't even make a solid claim.

It's not proof unless you meet the following conditions:

<a> Precisely define homosexual and heterosexual.

<b> Show that *using this definition* homosexuals are more likely to
  be child than heterosexuals.

<c> Show that there is some criteria by which we can distinguish
  homosexuals from heterosexuals *using your definitions*.

The only "evidence" that you've posted relies on the trick of saying
that all men who molest boys must be a homosexual, therefore
homosexual men are more likely to be molesters. But that's playing a
ridiculous semantic game of definitions, which is in complete
violation of the facts.

The facts, which have been presented so far, seem to _strongly_
suggest that the group child molesters is a very different group from
the group of open homosexuals. 

Most research shows that child molesters fall into two groups:

<1> Fixated molesters. Fixated molesters don't have adult sexual
  relationships of any kind. So, fixated molesters aren't really
  homosexual or heterosexual - they're pedophiles. An openly 
  homosexual individual probably isn't a fixated molester, unless
  they're *lying* about having an adult orientation. And you have no
  evidence of any kind that fixated molesters are more likely to
  lie about being homosexual than heterosexual.

<2> Regressed molesters. Regressed molesters do have adult relationships,
  but they also molest children. Many regressed molesters (which you
  categorize as homosexual, because they are men who molest little
  boys) are married or actively heterosexual in their adult orientation.
  You have shown no evidence at all that homosexuals are more likely to
  be regressed molesters than heterosexuals.

Show some evidence Clayton. I challenge you: either show some evidence
that considers the above criteria/information, *or* show some evidence
under your own clearly presented criteria/information, and show why
my criteria are invalid.

If the facts are really on your side, you should be able to do that
easily.

	<MC>
-- 
|| Mark Craig Carroll: <MC>     ||"I prize the cloudy, tearing sky,
|| Univ of Delaware, Dept of CIS|| for the thoughts that flap and fly.
|| Grad Student/Labstaff Hacker || For staying in and reading by.
|| carroll@udel.edu             || For sitting under" -Karen Peris
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc