From: shaig@shimshon.think.com (Shai Guday)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Zionism (was Re: All Arabs...)
Date: 6 Jan 93 02:02:43
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
	<1ic8u7INNbh4@early-bird.think.com>
	<1993Jan5.190044.26415@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
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In-reply-to: wmuhanna@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu's message of Tue, 5 Jan 1993 19:00:44 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.190044.26415@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> wmuhanna@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Waleed A Muhanna) writes:


   In article <1ic8u7INNbh4@early-bird.think.com> shaig@Think.COM (Shai Guday) writes:
   >
   >First of all, if zionism is a racist ideology, then how do you explain
   >the case of the Ethiopian jews who are not caucasion? or the Morrocan,
   >Syrian, or Yemenite jews as well?  If Zionism were a racist ideaology
   >then these peoples would not have been allowed to enter Israel.

   Since you want to stick to the narrow biological definition of `race'
   and `racism', then I am sure you would also insist that anti-Semitism
   is not a form of racism.  Right?  Just to be consistent, you know.

First of all, racism is defined as "a belief that race is the primary
determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences
produce an inherent superiority of a particular race."

Therefore the statement that "zionism is equivalent to racism" is
incorrect. If you wish to say that zionism is discriminatory as it
usurps the rights of the palestinians, that is a different matter.
Saying that zionism is racist is simply incorrect at best.

Anti-semitism is not necessarily a racist stand under the above definition,
if you understand the term to be reflective of hatred towards Jews.
Quite simply, the Jewish people do not constitute a race.
That is not to say that I find anti-semitism an admirable action,
merely not a necessarily racist one.

   The fact is that any ideology/state that discriminates against a portion of 
   its population on the basis of race, religion, color, or _ethnic heritage_
   can be judged `racist' in the _common_ usage of the term.

Not unless you are redefining common usage to be incorrect usage.
I don't think that you can make that claim for religious discrimination.
You can make that claim for ethnic groups classed according to common
traits, which would apply to anti-semitism as well.

   If you believe that it is justified to create and to continue to _maintain_
   a Jewish exclusivist state in Arab Palestine--which is common to virtually
   all known strains of Zionism--then your views are inherently colonial even 
   if you don't acknowledge it.  Such views can also be judged racist since those
   goals could not be achieved without dispossessing the native population of 
   Palestine (the Palestinian people) and denying them their inalienable rights
   in their homeland.

My own beliefs are that the question of justification for the creation
of a fait accompli are moot.  More good would be done trying to reach
some order in the current morass of affairs.  My own feelings are
indeed based upon realistic nationalistic insights, not racial ones, and any
attempt to portray me as a racist is inappropriate.

   If one subscribes to that principle, then his/her views (or "version" of
   zionism) are racist, even if he/she does not consciously or unconsciously
   practice racism in other behavior.

I am opposed to settlements in the territories for a large number of
reasons, not only those you mentioned in your posting.  I think that your
label does not apply to me, and that you are hastily misapplying it to
other groups as well.


--
Shai Guday              | Knowing martial arts allows one to remain calm when
OS Software Engineer    | confronted by idiots, secure in the knowledge that
Thinking Machines Corp. | you could dismember them easily, while you calmly
Cambridge, MA           | proceed to dismember them easily.
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