HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jfr@RedBrick.COM ()
Subject: Re: video software patents
Organization: Red Brick Systems, Los Gatos, CA
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:58:53 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.030142.11119@umr.edu> quandt@mcs213f.cs.umr.edu (Brian Quandt) writes:
>I just read an article in "Video Systems" Sept 92 pp4 titled 
>"Patent impending".  This short article was about how Montage has
>patented the use of the storyboard/time line approach used in non-linear 
>editors.  Did anyone else read this?  Do you also think this is nuts that
>a company could actually patent/copyright the way on-disk video data is
>displayed on a video screen? 
 
  No more nuts than IBM being able to get a patent on the API used for
  preprocessors communicating with backend database engines, which indeed
  they received on July 2, 1992.  This patent covers "the numerous functions
  used to provide critical information from a preprocessor which enables
  a backend database to perform all of the necessary tasks needed to support
  the execution of a user's application program."  Yep, that's it.  

>This to me seems like a variation on 
>'look and feel', a concept that aids all involved and should not result in
>royalties to some lawyer fat company (it aids user, developers, marketers,
>etc).
 
  Well, as a general rule, patents do tend to "aid all involved", the
  theory for granting them being to provide an incentive to people to
  make the concepts public by giving them protection and renumeration
  for a limited (17 years) period of time.  There are certainly issues
  to be resolved in the area of high technology in which 17 years is
  probably the lifetime of three or four generations (or more) of product.

  Jon Rosen

Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: simon@cui.unige.ch (Simon Gibbs)
Subject: low cost PAL to NTSC conversion
Organization: University of Geneva, Switzerland
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 09:02:49 GMT

I'm looking for a low cost (ie, < $1000) way of converting
a PAL signal to NTSC. We are going to receive a satellite
feed in PAL and I'd like to convert this to NTSC so that
it can be distributed to our various workstations and monitors,
all of which want NTSC. I have seen tape players which can
do some conversion, but this wouldn't work here since we're
dealing with live signals. Any tips or pointers would be
appreciated.

Simon Gibbs
University of Geneva
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: waugh@dg-rtp.dg.com (Matthew Waugh)
Subject: RGB to NTSC convertor
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 17:24:44 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation, RTP, NC.

We're looking for an RGB to NTSC convertor. The RGB is coming out on
3 co-ax cables marked R, G, and B :-). We've found boxes that will
take PC RGB with PC connectors, but this is a workstation with 
different connections.
Oh, and the kicker, we'd like it cheap. About $2-3K would be great.
This is to take the output of the workstation and send it via a
video conferencing system.
Any leads etc. appreciated, please reply by e-mail, I'll summarise if
people express interest in any answers I may get.

Thanks		Mat
Matthew Waugh			waugh@dg-rtp.dg.com
RTP Network Services 		
Data General Corp.		
RTP, NC. (919)-248-6034
From: tim@gumby.cs.caltech.edu (Timothy L. Kay)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Sony EVO-9650, anybody?
Date: 1 Oct 1992 01:09:50 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: gumby.cs.caltech.edu

We are using a Sony EVO-9650 frame accurate Hi-8 recorder to create
computer animation.  The deck is fairly well designed to handle the
task, except that it is slow (about 22 sec per frame).  More
importantly, the bottom few scan lines seem to be corrupted:  If you
format a tape after selecting Magenta from the menu and then play back
the tape to a regular TV, you get crud in the lower right corner and
sometimes along the whole bottom of the screen.

I am trying to discuss this further with Sony, and I am wondering if
anybody else is familiar with this deck and this problem.

If it weren't for this problem, I would recommend this unit.  It has
an RS-232C port on the back and is easy to control.

				Tim

--
Timothy L. Kay		  tim@caltech.edu	Member of the   League for
P.O. Box 639					Programming Freedom--write
El Granada, CA  94018				to  league@prep.ai.mit.edu
415-726-3862					for information.
From: mmcohen@cats.ucsc.edu (Michael M Cohen)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Re: Another Equipment Question (VLAN's)
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:01:35 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu


In article <1992Sep29.123457.5639@ultb.isc.rit.edu> entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>It's my understanding that the Panasonic SVHS decks don't need
>a controller, that there's software that does the necessary
>work inthe computer.  But I don't know for sure--we're still
>in the process of trying to get a deck in to test.
>
>Erik Timmerman
>Film/Video Department
>RIT

Our two ag7750 are connected to vlan via a Videomedia MICRON.
One could also connect via rs422 to a computer but there
would be a bit more software to write...
-- 

======================================================================
=   Dr. Michael M. Cohen                   mmcohen@dewi.ucsc.edu     = 
=   Program in Experimental Psychology     mmcohen@fuzzy.ucsc.edu    =
=   433 Clark Kerr Hall                    408-459-2655 LAB          = 
=   University of California - Santa Cruz  408-459-2700 MSGS         = 
=   Santa Cruz, CA 95064                   408-459-3519 FAX          = 
======================================================================
From: acuna78@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Another VideoToaster question
Date: 4 Oct 92 16:33:51 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

Does anyone know if the Video Toaster is available for IBMs or IBM compatibles?
Please reply via E-Mail to:

acuna78@wilma.wharton.upenn.edu

I don't read this newsgroup regularly so please reply via E-Mail.  Your
help is appreciated.

Day
From: tsui@ils.nwu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Re: Video Toaster
Date: 2 Oct 92 14:16:40 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Institute for the Learning Sciences

In article <1OCT199216554449@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov> kimnach@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov
(GREG KIMNACH) writes:
>What are the professionals impressions of the Toaster?  Is it truly 
>"broadcast quality?"  How does a picture generated by or passed through it 
>look when recorded/played-back on a high resolution VCR (professional or 
>pro-sumer)?  Sure, I've seen the VHS demo and, while I'm impressed by the 
>special effects, the image quality is only "up to" VHS standards.  (Granted, 
>this is enough for wedding videos since most consumers own VHS.)
>
>Greg


You should check out the demo on Laserdisc or even D2.  The demo was produced
on D2 so I'm sure it surpasses the VHS tape you have.

Josh Tsui
From: djones@lightning.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (David Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: recommended Hi8 video tapes?
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:11:12 GMT
Organization: McGill Research Centre for Intelligent Machines


We are about to get a SONY CD-TR-101 and SONY EVO-9650 and I was told
that I need to be sure to get the right tapes, but I am not sure
what the correct "part number" is for the recommended tapes.
If you know, please send e-mail directly to

	djones@lightning.mcrcim.mcgill.edu

thanks,
  dj
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: senseman@ricky.brainlab.utsa.edu (David M. Senseman)
Subject: Re: S-VHS Connectors
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 11:33:14 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.211919.20360@javelin.sim.es.com> RSIMISTE@130.187.170.178 (ROGER SIMISTER) writes:
>For those of you who are interested:
>
>S-VHS plugs and receptacles can be purchased from Digi-Key Corp,
>(800) 344-4539, Fax (218) 681-3380.
>
>	The plug is P/N CP-2040-ND, Cost is $1.03 ea
>
>	The Recp is P/N CP-2240-ND, Cost is $1.30 ea
>
>These are the standard 4-pin S-vhs connectors found on all consumer
>S-VHS equipment. The plug is for cables, the receptacle is for for
>printed circuit boards (right angle mounting).

This is great, but what we need is a "panel mount" S-VHS receptacle
not a printed circuit board mount. Anyone know if anyone makes such
a thing and were we might get it?

Thanks.

-- 
David M. Senseman, Ph.D.      |   A man who has never gone to school may steal 
(senseman@lonestar.utsa.edu)  |   from a freight car; but if he has a university
Division of Life Sciences     |   education, he may steal the whole railroad.
UT San Antonio                |             Theodore Roosevelt (1858-1919)
From: bc338569@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Brian J. Catlin)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Looking for info on Video Multiplexors
Date: 27 Sep 92 22:07:02 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University - Electrical Engineering

While paging through the 1991 Broadcasters Yearbook, I noticed that a few 
companies are selling "time division video multiplexing/demultiplexing 
systems."  Does anybody know anything about these?  I am really wondering 
what quality of pictures these produce.  Also, is it possible to
(de)multiplex audio along with the video?  Do they take up any more than the 
normal 6MHz bandwidth per channel?

Also, are the demultiplexors fairly small?  For example, say that a cable 
company could only send out 10 channels (for some unknown reason).  Could 
they increase this to 20 channels by using 10 multiplexors?  If a 
theoretical system like this was set up, would the customer have to have 10 
demultiplexor boxes, or could they use a regular converter to choose one 
of the 10 channels and feed the output to a single demultiplexor?

OK, so this example is a poor one, but if it did exist, would it work?

ANY information on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
B. J. Catlin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----  Brian J. Catlin                    * 202 Allison                   -----
-----  bc338569@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu * Fort Collins, CO  80521-5210  -----
-----  Colorado State University          * (303) 495-2762                -----
-----  Electrical Engineering             * (719) 852-2140                -----
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rotheroe@convex.com (Dave Rotheroe)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Video Toaster Info Addr/Phone
Date: 2 Oct 92 18:46:41 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Does anyone have the address, or perhaps an 800 number where I can
obtain info on the Video Toaster?  Probably best to post, considering
the number of posts about it recently.

Also, as I was the one who "started" the to time code or not to time
code war by requesting equipment recomendations (which I'll still
take, by the way), let me make a comment.  To me, time code is a
requirement, as I often want to make versions that are only slightly
different - perhaps one has additional footage for a particular
audience.  Another typical scenario is a 5 minute promo, a 15
minute short version, and a 30 minute long version.

==================================================================8--<
Dave Rotheroe                rotheroe@convex.com              DoD#0045
CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, TX 75083-3851, (214) 497-4512

55 - it's not a good idea, it's just the law.
From: bm245s286@sycom.mi.org (Bob MacDowell)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Re: Need Equipment Advice
Distribution: world
X-BBS-Software: EXCELSIOR! v0.960
Date: 27 Sep 92 01:53:56 EST
Organization: Michigan Information eXchange

In an article, aktan@rodan.acs.syr.edu (My name is Andre...) writes:

>some PRODUCTION houses will use control track editing to create their
>offlines.
>They would make SP Beta to 3/4" dubs and burn in timecode, and after they
>were
>done editing, they'd write down times, and bring the list and their Beta
>source
>to a POST house and work from there..  (These are the folks that don't have
>their own Beta equipment I'm talking about...)
> - Andre

That's a REALLY good idea... one thing I wish I could do was shoot in Beta SP, 
but while I *might* be able to afford one camcorder, no way could I ever 
afford the edit suite. Tell you the truth, I don't need Beta quality in edit 
right now, but some of my footage is going to be archived for a long time, 
and/or might justify using Beta, but I won't know it 'til maybe years after I 
shoot it! :-)

-Bob
From: chan@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM (Chan Benson)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:31:25 GMT
Subject: Re: need equipment advice
Organization: HP Fort Collins, CO
Newsgroups: rec.video.production

> Sorry, but time code isn't goshy-wizbang, it is a must.

Well, as usual, I think it depends on what your target market is.
Certainly for any production for which you will be paid, I'd say
time code is essential. The reproducability factor wins out. What
happens when you accidentally hose the master you've painfully put 
together on a control track system?

I've been able to get pretty good results on my personal videos with 
consumer gear and a lot of patience. Time code though would reduce 
the hassle/stress level drastically. 

			-- Chan
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: mccool@csri.toronto.edu (Michael McCool)
Subject: Re: S-VHS Connectors
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:20:11 GMT

RSIMISTE@130.187.170.178 (ROGER SIMISTER) writes:

>S-VHS plugs and receptacles can be purchased from Digi-Key Corp,
>(800) 344-4539, Fax (218) 681-3380.

>	The plug is P/N CP-2040-ND, Cost is $1.03 ea

>	The Recp is P/N CP-2240-ND, Cost is $1.30 ea

The S-VHS connector is identical to the Macintosh Keyboard
connector.  Therefore, if you need a panel-mount SVHS connector...

Michael McCool
From: entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Re: Another Equipment Question (VLAN's)
Date: 29 Sep 92 12:34:57 GMT
Reply-To: entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology

It's my understanding that the Panasonic SVHS decks don't need
a controller, that there's software that does the necessary
work inthe computer.  But I don't know for sure--we're still
in the process of trying to get a deck in to test.

Erik Timmerman
Film/Video Department
RIT
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: jandreas@cs.ulowell.edu (Jason Andreas)
Subject: Re: VideoToaster and A3000 or 4000?
Keywords: Toaster, A3000,A4000
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 07:37:37 GMT

Apparently, the toaster works on an A4000 with a Toaster cozy.
  
  Newtek no longer sells "Toaster Workstations", so I don't think you'll
see a Mac App "Switcher", connected to an Amiga over the serial port.
I've heard conflicting rumors over the years on whether or not Newtek would release a Mac Card.  Based on my knowledge of how various processes work on the Toaster, I don't think it is really possible.  Not atleast for a reasonable cost,
or without sticking an Amiga on a card.
From: tsui@ils.nwu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Re: Video Toaster vs. components
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:09:06 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Institute for the Learning Sciences

In article <lck9g0INNd9k@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> emarsh@hernes-sun.Eng.Sun.COM
(Eric Marsh) writes:
>I'm planning to purchase a Videonics titler, but recently the idea
>occured to me that perhaps I might do better to get a video toaster
>rather than lots of individual components. Does anyone have any experience
>with the toaster? If so, what does a decent setup cost? Are there any
>competing systems that run on a PC?
>

I have been using the Toaster since it came out and I would have to say that it
is your safest and best bet to go with them.

The Toaster package consists of the Switcher, CG, ToasterPaint, and LightWave
3D (one of the best 3D programs around, rumor has it that the revision will be
more powerful than WaveFront).

The Switcher has something like 150+ different wipes and DVEs for realtime
special effects.  It also has luminance keying (there's also a chroma-key
option) and a dual frame-buffer for loading graphics on the fly.  Too many
features to get into.

The CG is very good and there are literally 100s to 1000s of fonts that can be
used.  The Videonics Titler is pretty limited and the resolution is not the
greatest.

You can also use ToasterPaint to do graphics and titling also.  The paint
program is a bit quirky but since a Toaster is really an Amiga you can use any
high-end Amiga paint program and import it into the Toaster.

LightWave 3D is great.  I'm just learning it and I've seen some great stuff
from other people.  If you watch any UNSOLVED MYSTERIES dealing with UFOs, the
spaceships are all done in LightWave.  A new TV show called BABYLON 5 is also
LightWave produced.  This program is slowly becoming a standard in the industry
like WaveFront and others.

Me and a friend were contemplating the current cost for a set-up.  Here's what
we came up with (these are estimates based on mail order prices):

Amiga 2000 with Monitor - 1200.00
GVP 040 Accelerator (essential for 3D work) with HardDrive - 2100.00
Refurbished Toaster (from Creative Computing, comes with warranty) - 1700
Personal TBC (for stable video) - 800

thats a good for under 6000.00, of course you want more memory and other little
things but this should hold for awhile.

Josh Tsui
From: romkey@asylum.UUCP (John Romkey)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Re: VideoToaster and A3000 or 4000?
Keywords: Toaster, A3000,A4000
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:18:08 GMT

jfr@RedBrick.COM writes:
>  The Toaster didn't work with the 3000, last I heard, but
>  supposedly can work with the 4000.  

It works fine in my 3000. Version 1 of the Toaster software didn't work with
one of the ECS chips in the 3000; this was fixable by substituting an older
chip and replacing it with the ECS chip when version 2 of the Toaster software
was released. My 3000 has a bit of the case cut away to fit the Toaster
board in it. Works fine.
-- 
	- john romkey	  ELF Communications	 romkey@ELF.com
From: mmcohen@cats.ucsc.edu (Michael M Cohen)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Re: S-VHS Connectors
Date: 7 Oct 1992 00:25:30 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu


In article <1992Oct2.112011.4336@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> mccool@csri.toronto.edu (Michael McCool) writes:
>The S-VHS connector is identical to the Macintosh Keyboard
>connector.  Therefore, if you need a panel-mount SVHS connector...
>
>Michael McCool

NOT TRUE.

The S-plug has an outward-going ridge at the top
vs an inward ridge for the mac connector.

You may be able to force some S-plugs into such
a socket but it's not a great fit.

S-sockets need a cutout on the surrounding ring
for the top ridge.
-- 

======================================================================
=   Dr. Michael M. Cohen                   mmcohen@dewi.ucsc.edu     = 
=   Program in Experimental Psychology     mmcohen@fuzzy.ucsc.edu    =
=   433 Clark Kerr Hall                    408-459-2655 LAB          = 
=   University of California - Santa Cruz  408-459-2700 MSGS         = 
=   Santa Cruz, CA 95064                   408-459-3519 FAX          = 
======================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: tsui@ils.nwu.edu
Subject: Re: Hi8 editing?
Organization: Institute for the Learning Sciences
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:43:07 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.155425.2519@wam.umd.edu> bladin@wam.umd.edu (Ilana J.
Getz) writes:
[much stuff inquiring about Hi-8 editting]

>>Can we do this all in Hi8 yet? 
>
>Yes, check out the Sony 9700, dual deck Hi8 editor. It goes for just under
>$5000, and has a slew of nice features, including time code and insert
>capabilities.
>

I just read somewhere (I think it was VIDEO TOASTER USER, a great magazine even
for non-Toasterheads) that Toshiba (I think) will be releasing a clone of the
Sony 9700 at a much cheaper price.  I have a feeling that Sony will probably
come out with newer version.

I've read a lot of good things about the 9700.  One thing that I thought was
interesting was that B&H's ads in VIDEOMAKER says that the 9700 has some
correction circuitry that allows the output of the source deck to go into a
Toaster without a TBC!!  Is this true?  Is there some sort of pseudo-TBC
inside?  ENQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW!!


>>Is there such a thing as an editor that would talk to Hi8 as master 
>>and S-VHS as slave?
>
>Yes, check out the Video Toolkit from Abbate (sp?) software. It is a Mac
>based program that can perform interformat editing, even between consumer
>and professional gear. As far as I know, however, it is limited in its
>insert capabilities.
>

I've just gotten some literature from FUTURE VIDEO about their edit controllers
and they seem to specialize in editting to different formats, good prices too.


>>Should we forget trying to edit with our Hi8's and dub down
>>immediately to S-VHS?
>
>I wouldn't. Why lose a generation if you don't have to...

I agree, I think editting from Hi-8 to SVHS is good.  You want to keep the
generations as low as possible.

JOSHUA TSUI
INSTITUTE FOR THE LEARNING SCIENCES
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan)
Subject: Re: Need Equipment Advice
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:21:46 GMT


In article <bm245s286.487y@sycom.mi.org> bm245s286@sycom.mi.org (Bob MacDowell) writes:
> 
>Well when I wrote that article, I knew I was gonna get flamed... :-)

;-)

>>The simple truth is that control track editing is very inaccurate.
>>You can never hit the same place twice doing editing that way.
> 
>Thought #1:
>Why would you ever want to do it twice!!??
>You've got twenty more minutes of show to edit, coming off of six more
>work tapes, and you *don't* have all night.  Find the shot, preview
>the edit, trim it, MAKE the damn edit already, and move on to the next
>shot!  Life is too short!

Think about what you've just described - you're already passing each
edit point multiple times.

Once to SET the edit point, and the second time to actually EXECUTE the
edit. THREE times if you preview the edit before you actually execute
it. With control track editing, you can easily slip off a few frames.

I agree with Vidiot - if you can afford it, time code is a must. I have
to make do with control track editing, and although my AG-1960 is fairly
accurate, it does slip after a while.

>Thought #2:
>Great.  The client liked it, but wants the second scene "just" a
>little longer.  I have to re-edit the whole commercial!  At least with
>time code, I have this window dub of the edit master, and I'll be able
>to find those edit points again!

A second ago you were arguing AGAINST the need for time code. Now you're
arguing FOR it?!?!?!?!
From: barbk+@EDRC.CMU.EDU (Barbara Katzenberg)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Hi8 editing?
Date: 5 Oct 92 19:58:52 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University

In my organization we are using Hi8 as an acquisition medium. We
collect data on video as a part of our user studies, and
next assemble "highlight" tapes for our clients. We have done
this in a "klugey" way using a simple software editing system that
drives both the Hi8 deck (we're just using our EVO9100 in VTR mode) 
and a S-VHS machine for the master. Now we'd like to start doing
some proper editing, e.g., doing inserts, voice overs, and 
particularly want to get the "feel" of editing that you get
from a proper hardware set-up. Does anyone know any of the following
things:

Can we do this all in Hi8 yet? 

Is there such a thing as an editor that would talk to Hi8 as master 
and S-VHS as slave?

Should we forget trying to edit with our Hi8's and dub down
immediately to S-VHS?

What is a decent, not too expensive S-VHS editor?