From: cluck@pollux.usc.edu (Carlos L. Luck)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Worldclass tournament (was Re: FIFA propoesed changes to (OCEANIA) Southern America)
Date: 18 Aug 1992 13:48:20 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

In article <16r5phINN4nd@agate.berkeley.edu> 160955r@garnet.berkeley.edu () writes:
>Now, no matter how partisan you can be, I do not see how you could possibly
>enroll these facts in the service of the argument you made. South America has
>only two teams that do count: Brazil and Argentina. Commonly known facts 
>simply do not support the assertion that any other team of that area is of 
>international caliber...

You can all continue arguing on that forever without anything positive comming
out of it. IMHO, the bottom line in this thread is that South Americans
complain of the unbalance between the number of slots reserved to their
continent when compared to Europe. I think it's a valid complain. Europeans
justify that by saying that only Brazil and Argentina are "international
caliber" teams. Uruguay doesn't count because they didn't accomplish much
since the 50's. Well, by the same token, only Germany and Italy are
European "international caliber" teams. England has one cup (66). So what?
Uruguay has 2... It is unfair to disreagard European strongholds such
as France, Spain, Denmark, but neglecting Uruguay and Colombia is equally
unfair (just examples; don't get pissed off if I forgot to mention your 
favorite :-)).

If number of world cups were a legitimate criterion, South America should
have as many teams as Europe (they're tied with 7 WCs each), which is an 
obvious exageration. 

I have a different perspective on this issue. The problem with South Americans
is not the number of slots by itself, but the way qualifying rounds are set
up. For instance, it has been a real concern for Brazilians and Argentinians 
not to be able to make it to the WC due to the outcome of a single unlucky 
game. If you've been following soccer long enough you know that upsets are 
more than common. With so many slots reserved to Europe there are plenty of 
options and it is less probable that a big team ends up not making it. 

I know there are some options for South Americans as well, but you must agree 
that the chances in Europe are greater. Perhaps a reasonable solution to that 
would be to increase the integration of the Continents in the qualifying round.

If Europeans feel so strong about their soccer, they shouldn't mind sharing
their chances with South Americans (or with anyboby else in the world for
that matter), or should they? A stronger qualifying phase could even
justify the return of the WC to 16 teams, giving teams the chance of recovery
from one upset at any point in the competition up to the final round without
increasing the number of matches. Soccer deserves a world class tournament,
not this kind of lottery designed to protect emerging regions that can
make it or not with their own effort.

-- 
Carlos Ludolf Luck <cluck@pollux.usc.edu>
Office: University of Southern California, SAL309 - tel. (213)740-6500
Private: 322 S. Reno St. Apt. 301 - Los Angeles CA 90057, tel. 736-5221
Program: Aspects of Redundant Manipulators - PhD Robotics
From: jcarmona@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (juan carmona)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 22:52:07 GMT
Subject: Re: The Bronze Medal goes to .....
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID