HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mcdaniel@grex.ann-arbor.mi.us (Tim McDaniel)
Subject: Re: Famous flame wars, examples please?
Organization: GREX Public Access Unix +1 313 761 3000
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 03:56:09 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.134214.8650@CERIS.Purdue.EDU>
jheath@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Jim Heath) writes:
>There is _currently_ a pretty hot and long-lived flamewar going on between
>the Greeks and Turks on Soc.history.

In article <1992Dec10.184747.25079@tc.cornell.edu> 
mdw@db.TC.Cornell.EDU (Matt Welsh) writes:
>It's been going on since circa 300 B.C., but at the outset it was a REAL war,
>not just a flame war. :)

On a pedantic note: perhaps you were thinking of the Persians?  (I
thought that was in the 500s BC, anyway.)  According to Ostrogorsky's
"History of the Byzantine State", the first Byzantine-Turk contact was
in Justin II's (Justinian's son) time, in the 560s-570s AD (p. 74).
The Byzantines were looking for another silk route to China without
going thru Persia, their enemies.  The Turks were then in the Caucasus
Mountains.  Byzantine diplomacy often followed the "the enemy of my
enemy is my friend" premise.  They made a treaty against Persia.

The Seljuq Turks migrated into and took over Persia and Mesopotamia
before 1060 AD.  Alp Arslan, the second Seljuq Sultan in Baghdad,
attacked Byzantine Armenia in 1065 AD (p. 343), and went after Asia
Minor two years later.

So the Turk-Greek dispute is as old as the Turk-Armenian dispute, which
is ALSO intermittently hot on the Net.

-- 
Tim McDaniel
Internet: mcdaniel@{grex,m-net}.ann-arbor.mi.us, mcdaniel@adi.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: tzs@stein.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith)
Subject: Re: using /bin/ed (Was Re: Famous flame wars, examples please?)
Organization: University of Washington School of Law, Class of '95
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 04:31:26 GMT

russell@alpha3.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Russell Schulz) writes:
>davei@wam.umd.edu (The One True Dave) writes:
>
>> Well, if you look at it that way, ed has all the features you NEED in an
>> editor. (As a matter of fact, I still use ed. (Stop laughing!)
>
>of course, anyone trying to admin a Unix system who knows emacs or vi and
>not ed may not enjoy the day they boot and can only mount a minimal file
>system that doesn't include /usr/bin.

They deserve what they get for being so foolish as to not move vi or
emacs into /bin, where it belongs.  One of the things an administrator
should do when setting up the system is to make sure all the tools that
that administrator needs for emergency situations are in /bin or /etc
or somewhere else on the root volume.

--Tim Smith
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: Apple IIGS being discontinued Dec 1992
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 11:53:58 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.180320.13556@gallant.apple.com> cheryl@gallant.apple.com (Cheryl Lins) writes:
> Now, do you want to know a _really_ Dumb Idea? Produce a new personal
> computer running a brand new computer chip and a new OS and don't have any
> application software to run on it at introduction (let alone thousands of
> software titles).

Can't argue with that. Problem is, that old OS has some really raw spots that
can't be ironed out. There's a lot to be said for emulation... look how well
it did for Windows (not that I'm holding up Windows OR OS/2 as an ideal of a
good operating system, mind you).

> Apple engineers are not that dumb. Even Apple managers aren't that dumb. :-)

I don't think Apple is dumb. Apple just seems to do some REALLY weird stuff,
though. Like refusing to put a CLI on the Mac, so even now very little of
the big-name free software runs on it because none of the big-name free
software types are willing to do a special (and quite different) version of
their software just for it. If there was a CLI, even downplayed, then they
could get things like Ghostscript up in no time at all.
-- 
Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
 `-_-'   Oletko halannut suttasi tnn?
  'U`    
Tarjoilija, tm ateria el viel.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: kogoma@vesta.unm.edu (Taki Kogoma)
Subject: Re: About (Re:) and threads
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 04:40:23 GMT
Organization: Nit-Pickers for a Better Tomorow Afternoon

In article <1992Dec14.133207.26020@dxcern.cern.ch> xexeo@hplaa02.cern.ch (Geraldo Xexeo) writes:
>Why alt.folklore.computers threads looks to stay longer
>(even after the subject has changed 3 or 4 times) than
>in any other group in the net?
>
>Maybe we need just one:
>
>Re: Press POST not FOLLOWUP

#DEFINE ANAL-RETENTIVE ON
#DEFINE OLD_JOKE

Um...which buttons might those be?
-- 
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk  (Known to some as Taki Kogoma)  kogoma@vesta.unm.edu
 I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to
                          what I have now...
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:17884 news.admin.misc:726
From: lowen@lorc.eskimo.com (Lamar Owen)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,news.admin.misc
Subject: Re: Famous flame wars, examples please?
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 92 11:04:16 -0500
Organization: LORC Enterprises

In <g760uB5w165w@mertwig.UUCP> xyzzy@mertwig.UUCP (Daniel Drucker) writes:
>gorokho1@husc10.harvard.edu (Zhenya Gorokhovsky) writes:

>> norlin@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Norman Lin) writes:
>> 
>> > On sci.skeptic, there was a 'David Tiberio' who claimed to have
>> > invented a perpetual motion machine.  Naturally, the audience of
>> > sci.skeptic being what it is, this resulted in months and months of
>> > flamage.  In fact, there was so much traffic on that single topic
>> > that I unsubscribed to the group and haven't been there since.  (For
>> > all I know they could STILL be discussing it.)

>Kill file? Whats that?

Unfortunately, Waffle doesn't yet support killfiles in the 1.65 release
(which is what you are running).

Others will be able to describe killfiles in more depth.

ObFolkloreQuestion: Who invented the killfile? (No, I *don't* know...)

>--                          
>  Daniel Max P. Drucker                             mertwig!xyzzy@uunet.uu.net
>                       Amateur radio callsign pending                    
>"Difficulty! It's the single simplest machine in the entire Universe!" -HHGTTG

-- 

Lamar Owen, Systems Consultant          | If there were a tax on syn,
GE Lighting Systems, Hendersonville, NC | we'd all be broke.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
My opinions are not those of GE and do not reflect GE policy in any way.
From: kby@cco.caltech.edu (Kimo B. Yap)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: What is so greate about the PDP 10?
Date: 13 Dec 1992 22:01:34 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: alumni.caltech.edu

don@zl2tnm.gen.nz (Don Stokes) writes:
...

>While the VAX was intended as a follow on from the pdp11 line, the
>architecture allowed for a potentially bigger machine than the -10
>architecture did, and the only limiting factor in building bigger and
>bigger VAXes was the technology available.  Compare this to the fact the
>20xx line were already requiring tweaks to the architecture to support
>bigger address spaces.  The pdp11 line had already been through these kinds
>of tweaks to get the physical address space up (16, 18 and 22 bit physical
>addresses, each requiring different memory management code) and a couple of
>half-hearted attempts to increase virtual memory (split I&D, supervisor
>mode), and I can quite understand why DEC didn't really want to carry this
>on into the 80s with the -10 line.

While I'll admit that going from KA/KI architecture to KL architecture was
pretty crocky in terms of extended addressing (although I still feel they
did a lot better than 8086/8 to 80286/80386 transition), going beyond the
actual KL architecture should not have been necessary for a while.  Although
the KL itself was 32 sections (512 pages of 1024 36-bit words), the KL
architecture spec was 30-bit addressing (4096 sections).  I don't know
about the -20, but I know when I did the -10 stuff I made the monitor such
that going to 4096 sections was at least theoretically possible from the
23-bit 32-section addressing.  The big change was getting out of section 0;
after that it was pretty much the same.  I think there were "only a couple"
of places where 23-bit maximum size to addresses (or 14-bit page numbers or
5-bit section numbers, whichever you prefer) were taken advantage of :-).-kby
From: magnus@thep.lu.se (Magnus Olsson)
Subject: Re: man - command
Organization: Theoretical Physics, Lund University, Sweden
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:09:15 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.085541.25270@odin.diku.dk> klaus@diku.dk (Klaus Ole Kristiansen) writes:
>ig25@fg70.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (Thomas Koenig) writes:
>
>>Just wondering idly - has anybody in the known history of UNIX ever
>>complained about the fact that the command to print out manual pages
>>is called man(1) and not woman(1)?
>
>There was a proposal some time ago to replace man with a more advanced
>version called woman. [Funny consequences deleted]

I don't know if this proposal was quite serious, but there *is*
actually an enhanced replacement for man (1) that's called woman. At
least one user at our department prefers it over man (since man under
Ultrix doesn't support a MANPATH).

              Magnus Olsson                | \e+      /_
    Department of Theoretical Physics      |  \  Z   / q
        University of Lund, Sweden         |   >----<           
 magnus@thep.lu.se, thepmo@seldc52.bitnet  |  /      \===== g
PGP key available via finger or on request | /e-      \q
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.cbm,soc.culture.nordic
From: andrewb@lazy.demon.co.uk (Andrew Brown)
Subject: Re: 8-bit news (was Re: Commodore keyboard layout.)
Reply-To: andrewb@lazy.demon.co.uk
Distribution: world
Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers
X-Mailer: cppnews $Revision: 1.20 $
Organization: wherever it's like, at.
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 12:05:19 +0000


In article <27NOV199215430074@rdth2.rdth.luc.edu> pbricker@rdth2.rdth.luc.edu (Preston Bricker) writes:
 >Well it's not a habit, that's what it's called!  ;-)
| > 
| >Besides, it's so annoying for anglicized people to refer to the
| >Kanelbulle (@) as an "at-sign"...
| >-- 
| >Kurt Swanson, Dept. of Computer Science,
| >Lunds universitet.  Kurt.Swanson@dna.lth.se
| 

Kanelbulle is wonderful. All those years I lived in Sweden and never
knew that!


| 
--
Andrew Brown                    | email abrown@cix.compulink.co.uk|
Religious Affairs Correspondent | phone +44-71-253-1222 xt 1682   |
The Independent                 |---------------------------------|
London, England                 | I'm not paid to have opinions   |
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Famous flame wars, examples please?
Date: 14 Dec 1992 18:57:12 GMT
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.239.3.202

rebill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (Russell E. Billings) writes:
>In article <1gdildINNee6@armory.centerline.com>, jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>> lachlan@dmp.csiro.au (Lachlan Cranswick) writes:
>>>Does anyone have an article on the history of internet worm?
>> 
>> There was a pretty good article on it in JACM a couple of years ago
>> ('90 I think but I can't remember exactly).  It should be pretty easy
>> to find.

>Assuming that Jim meant "Communications of the ACM", here is the article
>in question:

>   Spafford, E.H. The Internet Worm: Crisis and aftermath. Communications
>       of the ACM, volume 32, number 6 (June 1989).

Bingo, sorry for the bad reference.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Subject: Re: Putting the prompt into the path
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 14:24:58 GMT

In article <1g8djrINNa0j@nz12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de> ig25@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de writes:
>Who was the first to have the neat idea of putting the current path (for
>those OS for which thereis such a thing) into the prompt?  I believe
>MS-DOS had it before the different UNIX shells (certainly before /bin/sh
>or /bin/ksh) but I'm reluctant to credit Microsoft with such a good
>idea...
			.
			.
			.
Credit not Microsoft.

It was a common configuration for UNIX workers long
before MS-DOS was first misrepresented.  I don't
have any direct documentation before 1983, but I'll
bet it was common back into the '70s.
-- 

Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)	+1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)  	+1 713 996 8546
From: infidel@cislabs.pitt.edu (todd j. derr)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: PI
Date: 16 Dec 92 02:00:27 GMT
Organization: university of pittsburgh cis

In article <10503@vtserf.cc.vt.edu> valdis@black-ice.cc.vt.edu (Valdis Kletnieks) writes:
>Back to folklore - what's everybody's favorite fast-converging
>series expansion for 'pi'?

hmmm...  I only know one.  Coded it in 'dc' for fun.

99[lslc+vsslp2*ls/splslk+lc>a]sadk_1*sk10lk^sk0ss2dscsplaxlppq

Guess it's probably not that fast though... ~1.7 iterations per
digit... And it's too bad that stock dc doesn't allow a scale bigger
than 99...  (not that that doesn't take long ENOUGH!)

todd "...and THEN I found out about N[Pi,50000]" derr

ObUL: The U.S. Constitution legally declares pi to be 3.  
      Or something like that.



Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Apple IIGS being discontinued Dec 1992
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 06:07:23 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.182450.1515@gallant.apple.com> cheryl@gallant.apple.com (Cheryl Lins) writes:

>In article <9212162327.54@rmkhome.UUCP> rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
>
>>When the Mac ships with a real command line shell, then maybe some people
>>will look on it more favorably.
>
>Ha-ha-ha!!! You make a funny, no?

No.

>... And I have better things to
>do than spend time trying to convince you otherwise or start a new flame war.

Then take some free advice and don't try to do either, since you're
doing a miserable job.

When the Mac ships with a real command line shell, then I will look on
it more favorably.  QED.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: Apple IIGS being discontinued Dec 1992
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 01:00:45 GMT

peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>In article <IISAKKIL.92Dec16131502@lk-hp-13.hut.fi> iisakkil@lk-hp-13.hut.fi (Mika Iisakkila) writes:
>> kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason 'KodaK' Balicki) writes:
>> >Argh!  Why does EVERYONE ignore the Amiga.  :)

>> Aaaaagghh! Now you said it! It won't take long before THEY come here

>We've been here all along, you great steaming leather-bound clockwork git.

I think he means the people who put the big ugly ascii barphic checks
in their sigs.
-- 
A fool and his money stabilize the economy.
From: jon@vector0.SAC.CA.US  (Dazed N. Confused)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Long live the II  (was Re: Apple IIGS being discont..)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 17:47:36 PST
Organization: Vector Zero

cmcurtin@bluemoon.use.com (Matthew Curtin) writes:

>              I don't think it's all to do with the machine, it's the
> spirit behind it, the spirit that created it, and that which keeps it 
> going. The spirit that Apple has forgotten all about.

     The "spirit" behind brain-dead Prodos...  Having to use PREFIX..
not having a CLI...  Incompatibility with almost every ported program
because there's no command line ability...  [Although, I haven't
been keeping up with the II world, and I think there are some shells
out there, now.]

     Ug.  The best thing that could happen to the II line, really,
is an entirely new operating system.  (What was that about unix on a GS?)
Forget Prodos.  And why does the Finder have to look exactly like a
Mac's finder?  Don't we all realize that GUI's are usele--err...

>         c) "What do you get when you cross Apple and IBM? IBM." I HATE 
> IBM.

     Uh, you really mean 80x386 architechure.  I'd have to say I hate
it too, but it's cheap and it runs Linux.  :)

--Jon

   jon@vector0.SAC.CA.US                     Life is like a kiwi.

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Apple IIGS being discontinued Dec 1992
From: peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: Apple IIGS being discontinued Dec 1992
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 11:54:48 GMT

In article <IISAKKIL.92Dec16131502@lk-hp-13.hut.fi> iisakkil@lk-hp-13.hut.fi (Mika Iisakkila) writes:
> kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason 'KodaK' Balicki) writes:
> >Argh!  Why does EVERYONE ignore the Amiga.  :)

> Aaaaagghh! Now you said it! It won't take long before THEY come here

We've been here all along, you great steaming leather-bound clockwork git.
-- 
Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
 `-_-'   Oletko halannut suttasi tnn?
  'U`    
Tarjoilija, tm ateria el viel.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: lachlan@dmp.csiro.au (Lachlan Cranswick)
Subject: Re: Famous flame wars, examples please?
Organization: CSIRO Division of Mineral Products, Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 14:30:45 GMT

cmcurtin@bluemoon.use.com (Matthew Curtin) writes:

>The flamewar regarding rtm's 1988 Internet worm is pretty good. It's going 
>on (again :) on comp.security.misc and comp.org.eff.talk...


Does anyone have an article on the history of internet worm?

How it worked, who got hit, and actions to prevent
it occuring again?

Thanks in advance,  Lachlan.

PS: I'm not after source code - I'm just curious.
-- 
  Lachlan Cranswick  -  CSIRO             _--_|\  lachlan@dmp.CSIRO.AU
  Division of Mineral Products           /      \ tel +61 3 647 0367
  PO Box 124, Port Melbourne 3207        \_.--._/ fax +61 3 646 3223
  AUSTRALIA                                    v
From: rfd@po.CWRU.Edu (Richard F. Drushel)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: The puppy is dead - alt.folklore.computers will not change
Date: 16 Dec 1992 22:21:19 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: rfd@po.CWRU.Edu (Richard F. Drushel)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) says:

>   Did ANYONE other than Dan Quayle and Zippy the Pinhead actually
>   vote for this turkey?
>
>   And if they did, would they admit it publicly?

	I did.  To me, it seemed that alt.folklore.computers had as
much, if not more, hard "comp" in it than existing, sysadmin-approved
groups like comp.os.cpm, which nowadays is little more than requests
for boot disks or "For Sale" messages.

	Hmm, maybe I should post an RFD for comp.sys.coleco-adam.  I
even have the FAQL :) :)
-- 
Richard F. Drushel ****** Ph.D. in Developmental Biology as of 4:45 PM 9211.20
rfd@po.cwru.edu ** Cleveland FreeNet ** Co-Sysop, Coleco ADAM Forum ** Go Z80!
"The bright and blinding sunlight shines so hotly on the trash-heaps that mere
undigested food and snotty Kleenex flow as rivers of milk and honey." - c.5253
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.religion.kibology,alt.folklore.urban
From: pt@geovision.gvc.com (Paul Tomblin)
Subject: Re: Proper pronunciation of 'Kibo' IN BED
Keywords: Kibo-nature, slack
Reply-To: pt@geovision.gvc.com
Organization: Not officially GeoVision Systems Inc., Ottawa, Ontario
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:56:32 GMT

nweaver@soda.berkeley.edu (Nicholas C. Weaver) writes:

>	Real cruel thing to do.  Put the word "Kibo" into your
>.sig.    :)

No - a much better trick, one that Kibo himself endorsed, is to put random
'Kibites'(*) in your postings - but the hard part is finding a group that
a) Kibo doesn't read already, and b) that is laid back enough that your
Kibite isn't going to generate lots of confused mail.

(*) Kibite - a random sentence fragment mentioning Kibo for no aparrent
reason.  It has to be something that if it appeared in a grep, Kibo would be
sufficiently intriqued to read the posting.  For example:

again, Kibo himself has categorically denied this on many occasions.  This is

-- 
Paul Tomblin, pt@compass.gvc.com
(This is not an official opinion of GeoVision Systems Inc.)
I've always wanted to know what's around the next bend
   - Herman Smith (Jackrabbit) Johansen. 1875-1983
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: Worlds wierdest system crash!
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 04:01:55 GMT

In article <BzI8CB.JrL@wimsey.bc.ca> chrisp@wimsey.bc.ca (Chris Phillips) writes:
> I used to work in a video store that was using a Commodore XT clone running
> an archaic point of sale program. It was possible to crash the machine in
> such a way as to disable the power switch(No lie).You had to pull the plug
> to bring it back. I took the machine apart and looked, t was a mechanical 
> switch and to this day I have no idea how it was able to do that. But the
> crash was repeatable.

On a Compucolor II, a weird computer crippled by the need to avoid competing
with the vendor's Intecolor line of terminals, the following code would
reliably get it into this state, in addition to apparently trying to fry
the computer (I never had the guts to test it, but it sat there making
nasty noises and generating a burning smell):

	FOR I = 0 TO 255: OUT 6,I: NEXT

Z80, hard-sectored 5.25" diskettes, 64x32 screen, sliced-character graphics
(using special block-graphics characters like the TRS-80), and a file system
that stored files contiguously on disk (delete a file and it moved the rest
of the files on disk down, using the screen as temporary memory).
-- 
Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
 `-_-'   Oletko halannut suttasi tnn?
  'U`    
Tarjoilija, tm ateria el viel.
From: ivie@cc.usu.edu (CP/M lives!)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: What is so greate about the PDP 10?
Date: 18 Dec 92 10:32:06 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <17DEC199211061470@rover.uchicago.edu>, frank@rover.uchicago.edu (Frank - Hardware Hacker - Borger) writes:
> 
> 	I can still hack on the 11 quite easily. (My definition of hack is
> 	that a simple basic or fortran program can directly talk to the
> 	mag-tape driver to tell it to write an eof or do a backspace, or
> 	can stuff a command line buffer and execute any system cusp.)

My definition of hack usually involves capturing interrupts, which is
impossible from user programs on a VAX. Long live small computers and
small operating systems!
-- 

Roger Ivie                      "My God! That computer is full of Pentium!
ivie@cc.usu.edu                  It's a wonder that you haven't been turned
                                 into mutants!"
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers