HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: summ50@cse.unl.edu ()
Subject: Re: FWD vs. RWD, Which is best.
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:16:01 GMT

carl@neocad.com (Carl Stern) writes:

>smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith) writes:

>>I tried this once before, let's see how I do this time:

>>Rear Wheel Drive _cars_ for sale in the USA, 1992:

>>Ford Crown Victoria/Mercury Grand Marquis/Lincoln Town Car
>>Ford Thunderbird/Mercury Cougar
>>Ford Mustang
>>Buick Roadmaster/Chevy Caprice/Cadillac Brougham
>>Chevy Camaro/Pontiac Firebird
>>Chevy Corvette
>>Dodge Viper
>>Infiniti Q45
>>Lexus SC300/SC400/ES400
>>Acura NSX
>>Toyota MR2
>>Toyota Supra
>>Toyota Cressida
>>Mazda 929
>>Mazda RX-7
>>Mazda Miata

>>Did I miss any this time?


> there are definitely more:

>BMW - all
>Merecedes Benz - all (some 4wd)
>Bentley - all
>Rolls Royce - all
>Jaguar - all
>Porsche - all (some 4wd)
>Volvo - some
>Ferrari - all
>Maserati Shamal
>Dodge Stealth/Mistubishi 3000 (some 4wd)
>Alfa Romeo Spider
>Cadillac Allante
>Nissan 240SX
>Nissan 300ZX
>Lotus Esprit
>Morgan - all
>TVR - all, I hope these are still sold in the US.

>I'm sure there are others too.

>-- 
>   Carl Stern
>   NeoCAD                     carl@neocad.com
>   2585 Central Ave.        
>   Boulder, CO 80301          Phone: (303) 442-9121


	Bzzzzzttt!    The Cadillac Allante is FWD.  The non-AWD Stealth/3000
	is also FWD.


                                                                   __
/-----------------------------+---------------+-------------------///-------\  
|    ___  __   ___  __   __   |               | Multitasking __  ///        |
|   |    |  | |    |__   __|  |  Unsafe at    | my life      \\\///  Amiga  |
|   |___ |__| |     __| |__|  |  any speed... | away !!!      \XX/   3000   |
|-----------------------------+---------------+-----------------------------| 
|    Eric Elliott            summ50@cse.unl.edu         GEnie: E.ELLIOTT7   |
\---------------------------------------------------------------------------/

--
From: liang@ast.com (Liang-Jeng Chen)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Questions of buying Mazda MPV
Keywords: MPV, MAZDA
Date: 21 Sep 92 16:25:23 GMT


 Can someone help us out about the following questions of buying Mazda MPV.

 1. Recommend a good Mazda dealer in LA or Orange County, CA
 2. Are there any dealer incentive or rebate ?  
 3. Should we pay for the advertising fee which is stated in dealer invoice ?

 Thank.

 Liang
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: 93 Ford Probe GT Doorlock Problem
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 19:36:07 GMT

In <1992Sep24.182837.15675@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> lui@rigel.uucp (26061-lui) writes:

>I just bought the 93 Ford Probe GT two weeks ago.  I asked the dealer
>to install an AUTOMATE alarm system with the automatic door-lock featture, i.e.
>the door locks itself whenever the alarm is activated.  I noticed that
>the car doorlock automatically unlocks whenever I pull on the door
>latch (from inside the car), even while I was driving.  
>(The door stays locked when the door handle is pulled from the outside,
>as it suppose to)
> 
>Is this a standard "convenience" feature of the Probe GT, or
>is this problem caused by the automatic door-lock feature of my alarm system.

>Any helpful comments will be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

>-Alex

I don't know about the '93 models, but my '89 does exactly the same thing.
Probably so you can exit quickly in an emergency. If you are carrying a
young child in the front passenger seat, make sure they are belted in.
Children in the back seats could not possibly reach the interior door
release.

Bob.

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: dpaper@nyx.cs.du.edu (David Paper)
Subject: n
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 17:11:40 GMT


My 87;s mustang GT is a RWD

hmm most good sports cars are RWD..
mustang, firebird *i think* camaro, vette, etc..

-dave


Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: ark@unislc.uucp (Adam King)
Subject: Re: Paint Touch-up
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:56:01 GMT

Arkady Pisarevsky (pisarevsky@b56vxg.kodak.com) wrote:
: Hello out there in Net-Land. I hope somebody have succesfully accomplished 
: what I am trying to do and can offer me some advice. 
: 
I had the same problem years ago when I first started working on cars. The
problem you have is that the rust/damp is coming from the other side of the
panel. The rust spots you initially had are the first indications of the panel
completely rusting through. The only way you can "repair" this really is to
clean and protect the underside of the panel. Beat the affected area so that
sufficient body filler can prevent further marks.
I hope this information helps.
--

- Adamant R. King ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      /###|   /#/ UNISYS Corporation	  UUCP:{hpda,att,sun}!unislc!ark
     /#/|#| /#/   Mail Stop B2E08         X400: S=king/ORG=unix slc/PRMD=devnet
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   /#/ /## #\     Unix Networks,    Voice Mail:(801)594 5904
  /#//#/|#|\#\    Salt Lake City,          Fax:(801)594 5438
 /# #/  |#| \#\   UTAH 84116.       MapperMail: 8633/EMMK   
/#/     |#|  \#\  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: virgo@metter.fmpmis.metter.com (Paul Virgo)
Subject: Maggie O'Connell,Chevy Lumina,and a gaggle of Nissans...
Summary: Okay--just two, but you get the idea...
Keywords: She'd drive a Blazer--The Altima/J30 looks like a 626/929
Organization: Metters Industries, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 12:59:32 GMT


On ye olde's boob tube, I saw Janine Turner(aka Maggie O'Connell of
'Northern Exposure' fame) advertising the Chevy Lumina. She looked sweet.
She looked svelte. She looked convincing. And all I could think of was,"
O'Connell wouldn't be caught DEAD in a Lumina---she'd drive a Yukon/Blazer...
maybe even a slightly,loaded Suburban---don't think she'd go for the S-10
Blazer or any "yuppie" SUV's...would go against her grain...


Saw the Altima commercials. Said to myself,"Hmmm...looks like Nissan is
doing that old Toyota Camry/Lexus ES300 action...".

I guess the difference between them is equipment and price(a bit of irony,
they played an Infiniti J30 commercial three frames after the Altima one). 

curious virgo
-- 

curious virgo
Metters Industries
Arlington, VA 22202
From: keng@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Ken Green)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 13:09:13 GMT
Subject: Re: downforce and cornering g's (was which car handles the best?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard ISG-SBU-PWD, UK.
Newsgroups: rec.autos

>   BZZT! Wrongo! Lateral acceleration is a complete separate force from
>   gravity. It has nothing to do with gravity other than the fact that
>   lateral acceleration is often measured in units called g's which are
>   equal to the acceleration of the pull of gravity on an object. This
>   is roughly equal to 9.8 meters/sec^2. Regardless of what your lateral
>   acceleration is, gravity will ALWAYS be exerting that force of 9.8 
>   m/s^2. Gravity comes into the traction management picture since it is
>   what gives the tires their firm contact with the road, thus giving
>   that sticky compound you spent lots of money on a chance to resist
>   sliding sideways. To get a clear picture of what is going on, think
>   of the forces involved in terms of vectors. To avoid the complication
>   of aerodynamic downforce, let's use the Ferrari F40 as our example
>   since it was designed to have 0 net lift. (same with Porsche's 959)
>   No matter how fast the car is being driven, gravity will always be
>   applying a downward force vector of 9.8 m/s^2. Let's say you are 
>   on your favorite mountain twisty and go through a curve with a radius
>   of roughly 100 meters at a speed of 69 mph (Bill & Ted official
>   speed limit). You would be experiencing a horizontal force vector of
>   9.8 m/s^2. So now there are 2 vectors of equal force acting on your
>   car but since they are in different directions, you have to average
>   their angles to find the direction of the net vector. The net vector
>   would be 1 g applied downwards through the center of the mass of the
>   car, at a 45 degree angle to the side from straight down. Since the

        -----------> 1g
        |\
        | \
        |  \
        |   \
        |    \
        |     \
        |      \
        |       \
        |        \
        V        -|

        1g         sqrt 2g

>   net vector is still pointing below the horizontal plane, it is
>   completely impossible for the car to leave the ground via either of
>   the two forces being considered. 
> 
>   Ultimately, what it boils down to is what net force is required to
>   to get the tires to break traction sideways given the current pressure
>   that's pushing them against the road surface.
> 
>   BTW, I realize that above I am expressing forces in terms of
>   acceleration which is a no-no but I can't remember the equation
>   for force. (mass*acceleration?) If so, that's about 11,136 newtons,
>   assuming the car weighs around 2500 pounds.
> 
>  Anyway, enough said.
> 
> Tom Suit
> 
> ----------
From: seymour@bnr.ca (Jeffrey Seymour)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Wanna be disgusted?
Date: 29 Sep 92 12:25:16 GMT
Reply-To: seymour@bnr.ca (Jeffrey Seymour)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

In article <1992Sep28.162231.13630@engage.pko.dec.com> g_stofko@kau100.enet.dec.com (George Stofko) writes:

>Does this mean if you are given a car as a gift you have to pay some
>sort of sales tax on it?  I was given a car and had quite an argument
>convincing my local DMV that it was given to me as a gift as opposed to
>me purchasing it when I tried to register it.

It gets better.  Apparantly, the gift thing only works between parents and their children i.e., between siblings -brothers, whatever, won't be legal.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (Andreas  Tovornik)
Subject: Re: FWD vs. RWD, Which is best.
Reply-To: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 18:28:19 GMT

In article 1ab3j1INN3mn@bigboote.WPI.EDU, walkerr@yaya.WPI.EDU (Robert A Walker) writes:


>just for interest my mother had a old pinto, Don't know if it was FWD or RWD
>since i was too young to car,  but she always kept a big old gravestone that
>she got from some old lady who got a divorce and didn't want to have a
>gravestone with her x's name on it.  She sure got a lot of funny looks
>and some wierd comments, but then again my mother was and still is wierd.
>funny thing she was working VNA visiting nurse assosiation in the hospice
>division that is people living their last days at home.  NOt very 
>appropriate.

   The pinto was rear wheel drive. It's replacement, the escort is FWD.
Bean counters are responsible for the replacement of bad cars with
worse cars. Yer Ma must have had great traction, rotten gas milage,
and horrible acceleration.

Andy.

PLEASE EXCUSE MY OBVIOUS IGNORANCE.



From: dick@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Dick Lucas)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 17:52:12 GMT
Subject: Re: MPG as f(velocity) relationship?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA
Newsgroups: rec.autos

As a first approximation, you can assume that the mileage varies inversly with
the square of the speed.  This is because at reasonable highway speeds, the
principle drag is wind resistance.  As stated by others, there are other
factors, such as gearing, engine efficiency as a function of rpm.  On my
motorhome which has a mileage computer, I have experimentally verified this
1/speed squared relationship by measuring the mileage over successive 10
mile stretches in Kansas on cross country trips.  I did this at 50 to 65 
mph, using the cruise control to hold the speed constant.  The relationship
was pretty good over this speed range, and was enough to convince me that
driving slower was an economic win for me.

Dick Lucas
From: lee@quark2.aero.org
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: GEO METRO
Date: 6 Oct 1992 09:11 -0800
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation
Distribution: world
Reply-To: lee@arecibo.aero.org
NNTP-Posting-Host: quark2.aero.org
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1as2c3INN5f2@bigboote.WPI.EDU>, beuf@wpi.WPI.EDU (Richard J Fuller) writes...
> 
>	as far as livign through an accident...
> 
>	well I Saw a demolished Geo STORM in a junkie and I can
>	say that I hope that I never get nto an accident.......
>	
>	but almost all cars in this price range are 'deathtraps'
>	I dare you to name one car under $10,000 that is very
>	safe....
>

Actually, the Cavaliar/Sunbird line, whose design is over a decade old,
is very solidly built compared to other compacts in it's price range
(less than $10,000).  Reliability may be questionable (improved in
recent years) but the metal they use for the frame is quite heavy :-).
From: igoujarrodjo@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Chevy Cavalier
Date: 1 Oct 92 20:37:51 CDT
Distribution: na
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

In article <891078p.6.717264565@ace.acadiau.ca>, 891078p@ace.acadiau.ca (Trevor Perkins) writes:
> In article <1992Sep23.143952.1740@sei.cmu.edu>
>      kh@sei.cmu.edu (Kurt Haverstock) writes:
>>
>>Z24 Cavaliers may be swell in terms of power, handling, brakes, etc., but
>>the general perception of those unfamiliar with this flavor of Cavalier
>>will always equate it with the garden variety.
>>
>    I have driven a 1989 Z24 (2.8L mpfi 5-spd) and a variety of the base 
> cavaliers from 86-90.  IMHO the only similarity between the Z24 and the base 
> models is name only ( and some external body styling ).  The standard models 
> are trash, but the Z24 is one awesome car and more than a match for any 4-
> cyl. ( can't come close to my 5.0L Mustang, though.  but that is a diferent 
> story ).
> 
> -ctp


A small point--the 2.8 is, if I'm not mistaken, a v-6.  Therefore, a Z-24 
SHOULD be "more than a match" for most (but not all) 4-cylinders--unless I 
missed the point of this thread...
From: sly9y@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Anybody know anything about Shocks?
Date: 2 Oct 92 11:15:49 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <uznerk.717786280@mcl>, uznerk@mcl.ucsb.edu (Andrew Krenz) writes:
> Okay.  I have an '87 Chevy Caprice police package, and I need to get 
> new shocks for it.  I know someone else who has an identical car to mine
> and he bought Bilstein shocks for it.  The car has an incredible ride now,
> with almost no body roll.  The problem is, he paid about $285 for 4 shocks, 
> without installation.  Is this abnormally expensive, or do most shocks cost
> this much?  If not, does anyone know of a particular brand of shocks that
> would give the car a stiff (police-ish) ride without having to fork out
> so much ca$h?  Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> -Andrew Krenz
> uznerk@mcl.ucsb.edu

Try going to KYB gas-adjust.  I got some for my 65 stang for about $90 for
fronts and rears (less installation, but I can do that myself)

Pete
> 
> 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rll@frieda.mitre.org (Roberto L. Landrau)
Subject: Re: downforce and cornering g's (was which car handles the best?
Organization: Research Computer Facility, MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:57:51 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.133110.20448@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> dpaper@nyx.cs.du.edu (David Paper) writes:
>Ummm I hate to clarify something..
>
>but if you have taken a basic level physics course, you would know that a
>car can never obtain more than 1g, in actuality, .9 is VERY good, as i
>think the dodge viper gets umm .93 or something..

Please, bear with me.  It's Monday and I am having a hard time
following your logic.  First of all, I took a basic and an advanced
physics course at a reasonable institution a few years ago.  However,
my professor never claimed that >1g was impossible.

If 1g is the maximum a car can obtain, then...

let s = the distance traveled in time t

                 2
s = v t + (1/2)at  , where v = initial velocity, a=acceleration, t=time
     i			    i

since 1g = 9.8 m/sec, and v = 0, in 400 meters (1/4 mile)
 			   i

the fastest car in 1/4 mile can do, at best,

      t = sqrt(2*s/9.8) = 9 seconds.

Now... I have seen some dragsters do < 5 seconds.  Let's see...
		    2
      a = sqrt(2*s/t ) = sqrt(32), which is more than 5 g's.

Please check my math, I must be doing something wrong...

>1 g would pick the car up.. and 2g' just doesn't exist, not in lateral
>motion anyways..
>
>sorry guys..
>
>-dave

sorry dave.  I have read (I am looking for the source) that it IS
possible for tires to provide a coefficient of friction greater than
one.  I will let you know if I find the source.


--
The opinions stated above are not necessarily my employer's.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Roberto L. Landrau    KC1YP    landrau@mitre.org  rll@linus.mitre.org
The MITRE Corporation  Bedford, MA 01730          rll@linus.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw)
Subject: Re: RPM vs MPG
Organization: Motorola Western MCU Design Center, Chandler Arizona
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 00:52:39 GMT

In article <25976@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, tobias@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Tobias) writes:
|> 
|>     One of the auto rags did a comparison test of old and new Mustangs
|> as well as old and new Camaros. For the new models, the Mustang GT they
|> tested (2.73 ratio) turned around 1,500 rpm @ 60mph in fifth gear. The
|> Camaro (Z-28 I believe) had a ratio of around 3.5:1 and turned something
|> like 2,000 rpm @ 60mph in fifth gear. The engines were either exactly equal
|> or close in displacement (the GT was a 5 liter, 302 cubic inches, the Camaro
|> was either the same or slightly larger) (Note: Pardon my ignorance of
|> GM engines but they're not my favorite car maker to put it mildly).
|> Despite the large difference in RPM @ 60, the mpg figures were only 1
|> or 2 miles per gallon lower for the Camaro. Note that the tires were
|> almost identical (225-55ZR16 for GT, 235-55ZR16 for Camaro), in case
|> that would be a factor. My question: How can the mpg figures be so close
|> when the rpm @ 60 numbers are so different??? The only thing I can think
|> of is that the mpg figures weren't from cruising at a constant speed
|> in fifth (the auto rag didn't explain how they were derived).

You give quite a bit of information, except the publication and their
supposed test method.

Despite that, there is no real set of quick parameters by which you
can judge one car to have better/worst MPG.   The fact that the GT is
turning less RPM at 60mph does not tell you anything about whether the
engine is being operated at it's lowest specific fuel consumption
for that load.  

Generally speaking most cars will obtain their best fuel efficiency
right around their torque peak.  Run either faster or slower than that
RPM and fuel efficiency falls off.   We used to run fuel economy rallies
in the Midwest in the 60's-70's and found that you could get really
great gas mileage if you drive a steady, smooth 40-45 mph all day.
This is usually where the torque peak occurred in fourth gear.
What you may be seeing on the GT is that the gearing places the RPM
below optimum versus the Camaro.  Check out their rated torque RPM's.

Another factor is the relative air drag of both.  Looks can be deceiving.
Just because it looks streamlined, doesn't mean it is.   If you suspect
the mileage test was not at constant cruising speed, then total vehicle
weight will come into play. 

Also, BMW did a test several years ago where they showed that quick
(2/3 throttle) acceleration to the speed limit and then cruising was
actually more fuel efficient than slowly creeping up to the speed limit.
The effect was due to the fact that most engines have volumetric 
efficiency losses at small throttle angles.  Large throttle angles
improve this efficiency.  Wide-open throttle usually causes too much
enrichment.   So granny, really didn't know how to get good gas
mileage afterall :-)

Mark
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
From: scl7375@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: 301 power
Reply-To: scl7375@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 21:56:10 GMT

Hello, I have a 1979 pontiac firebird witha 301 V-8 it has a spreadbore rochester carbourator on it, and it has some really good torque and power. it rated at 140hp net. now, does anyone know how to make the engine more powerful and tourquey or would it be best to just swap in a 400ci twin turbo (where can one snag on of those) A four barrell might help, but a spreadbore has as good of airflow as I need witha stock engine. Anyway, I'm looking for some good ideas, from exotic to cheap, considering I'm in co


l
Hello, I have a 1979 pontiac firebird witha 301 V-8 it has a spreadbore rochester carbourator on it, and it has some really good torque and power. it rated at 140hp net. now, does anyone know how to make the engine more powerful and tourquey or would it be best to just swap in a 400ci twin turbo (where can one snag on of those) A four barrell might help, but a spreadbore has as good of airflow as I need witha stock engine. Anyway, I'm looking for some good ideas, from exotic to cheap.
Considering i'm in college, i can't afford much new, but i have friends and lots of extra time to play, so rebuilding a 400 may not be as bad idea, since it is my project, not a daily driver. Anyway, thanxs, responces could be sent e-mail, or posted on the board, it is rec.,autos.
					Liddleman
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Probe / Mercury Capri / Ford Capri - Which?
From: richardk@sdl.mdcbbs.com
Date: 1 Oct 92 10:35:09 BST
Distribution: world
Organization: Shape Data  (A division of EDS Ltd) - Cambridge,UK
Nntp-Posting-User: richardk

Greetings car enthusiasts!

There I was, reading my car magazine last night, and it mentioned the release
of the new Ford Capri in late '93. I have been following this news-group for a
couple of weeks now and have seen various messages about a Mercury Capri. Is
this the same car? And if it is, why are we over in the UK told that in the
US it is on sale as a Probe?

Thanks for any answers in advance,

Richard












-- 
Richard King (Technical Support Engineer)         Shape Data (A Division of EDS)
 Internet: richardk@sdl.mdcbbs.com                    46 Regent Street
     UUCP: {uunet,decwrl,att}!sdl.mdcbbs.com!richardk     Cambridge CB2 1DB
    Voice: +44 223 316673 ext. 219                             United Kingdom
      Fax: +44 223 316931          

Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Subject: Re: I need advice on '82 and '84 Porsche 928's
Originator: brad@buck
Keywords: Porsche
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:39:11 GMT


There are 3 things to remember about the Porsche 928:

1. The maintenance cost is astronomical
2. It costs an enormous amount to maintain
3. You need much disposable income to maintain it

If you're in a mood to spend alot of money keeping a powerful exotic,
you might also consider a Maserati 228 or a Jaguar XJS. They have 
much more fanciful interiors than the 928, which (in a perverse sort 
of way) might better justify the cost of owning one (if there is any
justification). 

Cheers,

BK
From: keng@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Ken Green)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 11:57:43 GMT
Subject: Re: downforce and cornering g's (was which car handles the best?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard ISG-SBU-PWD, UK.