HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bevans@carina.unm.edu (Mathemagician)
Subject: Re: Am I a grandfather? You be the judge.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 23:54:51 GMT
Organization: Society for the Preservation of E. coli

In article <1992Aug28.164629.1@bronco.fnal.gov> colombo@bronco.fnal.gov writes:
>I'm a step-father to (among others) a 23 year old (female) that recently
>had a baby (girl). So my question is: Am I a grandfather, step-grandfather,
>or what?

>On a related note, is being a step-parent forever?  Does it apply to say
>an older couple that marry?  Would all of their children (regardless of
>their present age) automatically be step-children?  I was wondering if
>it doesn't apply if children are over 21.

Well, I'm not sure of the legal ramifications, but I can give my own
personal experience.

I have what I call my "ex-step-grandfather."  That is, my mother's
mother divorced my mother's father, married another man, and divorced
him.  I am not quite sure of the timing between the second
marriage/divorce and my birth (I never asked.)  But, my mother and her
sister have a good relationship with him and he is generally considered
"part of the family" even if he has no legal ties to it.

My father and my mother's sister got married after my mother died when
I was 19 and my sister was 21.  We regard her as our aunt since she
has been our aunt for most of our lives...and that was at her
request...but as the years go by, she has started to take on a more
step-mother type role...against our wishes.

Ah, the joys of being in my family!

-- 
Brian Evans                |     "Bad mood, bad mood...Sure I'm in a bad mood!
bevans@carina.unm.edu      |      I haven't had sex...*EVER!*" -- Virgin Mary
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: echyatt@eos.ncsu.edu (EDWARD CRAIG HYATT)
Subject: Re: Am I a grandfather? You be the judge.
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 23:25:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.225513.25803@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> garvey@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (Heather Garvey) writes:
>colombo@bronco.fnal.gov writes:
>>
>>I'm a step-father to (among others) a 23 year old (female) that recently
>>had a baby (girl). So my question is: Am I a grandfather, step-grandfather,
>>or what?  And what of my parents, are they some sorta great-grandparents?
>>You'll probably say that I'm a grandfather, so maybe I should put it this
>
> (portions deleted)
>
>--
>	" ...dealing with Free-Net makes me very angry  | Heather "Moose"
>and gives me thoughts of breaking things and torturing  | Garvey, Biochem 93'
>small animals. "   --  Bruce Ikenaga <bxi@po.cwru.edu>  | <hlg@po.cwru.edu>

And while we are on the subject, I'd like the net opinion about what to
call my mom's significant other.  My dad died in 1989 after a bout with
cancer, and my mom has been going with the same guy for a couple of years.
In fact, according to her latest letter, they are "merging" households.
The aren't married, and my guess is that they don't plan to marry.

I generally call her S.O. by his first name, since I consider him
a peer, but I would have no qualms about calling him "dad" or whatever.

It mainly comes up when discussing my family with new friends, and I
have to say something like "my mom's boyfriend after my dad died...."
and give a big long explanation.  I'd just as soon say "dad" just to
avoid a long story.  Also "boyfriend" sounds stupid for a guy in his
50's!

Also, I'm unsure how to broach the subject with my mom, although, now
that I think about it, I can't think of anybody who would be more
understanding!

One other facet to all of this is that I don't really know her S.O.
very well personally, since they live in another city, and I don't
get out to see them except holidays.

Opinions, please!


-- 
--------------------
Craig Hyatt
NCSU@Raleigh, NC USA
echyatt@eos.ncsu.edu
--------------------
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: cma@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (christine.m.dakes)
Subject: Re: Wedding etiquette
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 20:04:58 GMT
Summary: being in a wedding - my horror story


Wow, you may be in for a shock, just as I was when I was the maid of
honor at an ex-friend's wedding, ex due to the wedding!
I was naive, had I known all the time, expense, and aggravation involved,
I would have declined!  Never again will I be in a wedding!

I'll tell you my bad experience:

The gown, hat, gloves, and shoes cost *way* more than was expected.
(I was in college at the time, which made this worse).  I had to pay
for all these, as expected.  I had to buy a bridal shower gift *and*
a wedding gift.  I had to buy the "anniversary candle" for the couple.
(was told this was the "duty" of the maid of honor).  I had to write out
and stuff invitations for the wedding and shower.  I had to decorate the
rented place for the shower.  I had to help pay for for rented place
for the shower and help pay for the caterer for the shower, plus help
pay for the bridal shower favors and *make* the bridal shower favors.
I even had to make and bring in other food for the shower even though
it was caterered (from my dorm room?!) I had to help decorate the cars
for the wedding.  My parents were not invited to the wedding (I was since
told by others that they should have been?).  It was a large wedding
party, the other bridesmaids had to help and chip in money for all
this too, but lucky me being the maid of honor had to do more and pay
for more.  Oh yeah, I also had to pay for my own flowers/bouquet
that I carried (artificial bouquet, even more expensive). Some "honor"!
Was not even treated to a rehearsal dinner!

To make a long story short, I haven't spoken to her since her wedding,
nor were ever contacted by her to see any wedding photos, nor did I
ever get a thank you for anything from them!

Whew!  Now that that's off my chest, perhaps I got taken by a 
real bitch, who knows?  Maybe your experience will be much better,
much less time consuming, less expensive, and less frustrating/
aggravating!  Good luck!

Christine


(by the way, for those of you wondering, I had a tiny wedding,
the only people there being us, and our parents, my mom and
father-in-law being our matron of honor and best man).
From: pepke@ds1.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: Ending a marriage
Date: 27 Aug 92 03:57:49 GMT
Reply-To: pepke@ds1.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
Organization: Florida State University, but I don't speak for them

In article <1992Aug25.160451.15066@col.hp.com> lpj@col.hp.com (Laura Johnson) writes:
>In no way should it be a surprise to one spouse when the other spouse
>says "I want out." Even if she believes there is no way to save the
>marriage, I believe she has a responsibility to talk to her husband,
>first saying, "I have major problems with this marriage and here's why." 
>Maybe he will have ideas of what to say or do that will change the
>situation, or maybe not; but she needs to give him time to think
>about the fact that the marriage is not working, before she says
>"I'm leaving."

I agree 100%.

Whether there is any chance or not is unimportant.  Presenting someone one
has promised to cherish with a _fait accompli_ is vicious.

-EMP



Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: ssimmons@convex.com (Steve Simmons)
Subject: >>>> Wedding etiquette
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 14:00:58 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.


>
>I'm not very well-versed on Western weddings (the only ones I've
>attended were Westernized versions of Chinese weddings) and I've been
>asked to be a bridesmaid .  I need to know what is expected of me.  I
>know that I have to buy dress/hat/gloves/shoes and whatnot, but do I
>also have to give a gift to the bride?  I will, anyway, but I don't
>understand the reasoning behind this.
>
>And, on the question of presents, just a personal bias, I don't like
>this custom of registering (too impersonal, too materialistic, etc.)
>But, personal biases aside, is artwork appreciated as a gift?  (That
>is what I'm going to get them, but I just wanted opinions...  ;^) )
>
>Thanks for your collective wisdom!
>
>       -- Anita --
>

Yes Anita... Everyone here has told you the correct etiquette. However,
I have advise for those of you expecting brides and grooms planning a 
wedding. 

First, there are no absolute rules to be followed.  Do what is right and
convenient for all people involved.   Both my wife and I rented the 
dresses and tuxes for the people in the wedding party.  First, renting is 
better because the dresses used in the wedding party rarely ever get 
worn by the same people again.  They tend to be on the on the showy 
and flamboyant side. Secondly, I've been in wedding parties before and
the small gift given as appreciation is rarely worth it.  Therefore,
it is by far better to pay the expense of the clothes and just not give 
the small gift.  A picture taken for them is usually suffice. 

The cost of the clothes is such a small part of the wedding when compared
to the caterer, hall, photographer, etc.... Both my wife and I paid for our
own wedding since her parents are Chinese and mine are American.  Each set
of parents believed the other is responsible. 

Heck, her parents told me the following...
	
	- give her sister a new dress
	- give her brothers new shoes
	- give them a pig... in exchange for them giving me a virgin ;-)

Thank you. 

				Steve Simmons
From: ahsiung@bbn.com (Anita Hsiung)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Wedding etiquette
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:26:57 GMT
Reply-To: ahsiung@labs-n.bbn.com (Anita Hsiung)
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

Hello all!

I'm not very well-versed on Western weddings (the only ones I've
attended were Westernized versions of Chinese weddings) and I've been
asked to be a bridesmaid .  I need to know what is expected of me.  I
know that I have to buy dress/hat/gloves/shoes and whatnot, but do I
also have to give a gift to the bride?  I will, anyway, but I don't
understand the reasoning behind this.

In Chinese culture, the maid-of-honour and bridesmaids (if any) have
their dresses paid for by the bridal party and they receive presents
from the bride.  This makes sense to me, because if I were getting
married, I'd be grateful that a friend gave me the honour of attending
at my wedding, there'd be no question that I should be the one
thanking her.

And, on the question of presents, just a personal bias, I don't like
this custom of registering (too impersonal, too materialistic, etc.)
But, personal biases aside, is artwork appreciated as a gift?  (That
is what I'm going to get them, but I just wanted opinions...  ;^) )

Thanks for your collective wisdom!

	-- Anita --

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Anita Hsiung       | "See how easy life can be?" -- Johnathan Raven     |
| ahsiung@bbn.com    |                                                    |
| BBN Canoga Park    | "Someday we'll look back on this moment...and      |
| California, USA    |  run smack into the car in front of us."  -- Ski   |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: linda@wendy.uucp (Linda Hill)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: Advice on responsibilities of Best Man
Date: 2 Sep 92 22:28:14 GMT
Organization: Network Equipment Technologies

In article <1992Sep2.190237.1137@clpd.kodak.com> kirkpatr@alc.serum.kodak.com (Dan Kirkpatrick (x37370)) writes:
>
>Could someone tell me the responsibilities of being a Best Man?
>
>I know that the best man should arrange the Bachelor party, and do the 
>toast... but anything else?  Gift other than wedding gift?  Other duties?

Decorate the car!  You can be nice about this too.  Use some kind of
paint that won't hurt the car (just do the windows) and don't bother
with tying things to the bumper.  We ended up with some free smoked
salmon from a roadside vendor we passed while driving to our honeymoon
destination because he said it was bad luck to charge newlyweds!

We felt a _little_ silly, and I jumped everytime a car honked (what are
they honking at us for?  ohhhh, duh...), but the smiles and waves were
nice!

linda@net.com
From: ellon@ADS.COM (Ellon St. Croix)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: Wedding etiquette
Date: 27 Aug 92 22:22:58 GMT
Organization: Wild Bill & BabyCat's House of Many Pleasures


I said:
>cma@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (christine.m.dakes) writes:
>>
>>Wow, you may be in for a shock, just as I was when I was the maid of
>>honor at an ex-friend's wedding, ex due to the wedding!
>>I was naive, had I known all the time, expense, and aggravation involved,
>>I would have declined!  Never again will I be in a wedding!
>>
>>I'll tell you my bad experience:
>{christines horror story deleted}
>>
>>Whew!  Now that that's off my chest, perhaps I got taken by a 
>>real bitch, who knows?  Maybe your experience will be much better,
>>much less time consuming, less expensive, and less frustrating/
>>aggravating!  Good luck!
>
>
>   GOOD GOD CHRISTINE!   This girl must have had Big Brass Balls.
>
>   Some people have absolutely NO couth!


    I just wanted to add...My sister was my Maid of honor, my niece 
    was my bridesmaid.  All either of them had to do was pay for their
    dress/shoes and show up at the wedding to witness.  I addressed, 
    stuffed, stamped, and mailed all the invitations, recorded all the
    RSVP's, wrote all the thank you notes, made the favors.
    Basically, I did EVERYTHING.  I have a sister-in-law that opened 
    her home for a nice shower, and she even did all the food, and the
    shower cake.  


    I know a lot of people don't put much stock in Miss Manners, or 
    Emily Post these days...But Jesus H!  How greedy can you get????

     
    Again, JMNSHO!

     

    Ellon St. Croix



--
"Excuse me,George Herbert,irregular-heart-beating,read-my-lying-lipping
slipping-in-the-polls,do-nothing,deficit-raising,make-less-money than 
Millie-the-White-House-dog-last-year,Quayle-loving,sushi-puking Bush!
I don't remember inviting your ass to my show!"  Arsenio Hall.
Newsgroups: soc.couples,soc.men,soc.women
From: cathy@octel.com (Cathy Kearns)
Subject: Re: Am I a grandfather? You be the judge.
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:32:43 GMT

>colombo@bronco.fnal.gov writes:
>... what do you tell a child that has four grandfathers AND four
>grandmothers?  

You can never have too many people who love you.

(My almost three year old just got back from her yearly
"Alison's Grandparent Tour".  First stop, Grandma and
Grandpa Tasha's house.  Second stop, Grandma and Grandpa
Airplane's house.  Third stop, San Diego vacation with
Grandma Swimming Pool and the new baby cousins.  She
didn't think she missed me until she saw me again.)

					Cathy

Newsgroups: soc.couples,misc.entrepreneurs
From: jlc@atux01.att.com (Jim Collymore)
Subject: How to get into the "Wedding" business - Need Info
Followup-To: poster
Keywords: Wedding software
Organization: AT&T Corporate Education and Training
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:11:43 GMT

I need some help finding out where I can begin marketing some software that
I created a few years ago that helps a couple plan their wedding.  This came
about when my fiance and I had bought a software package to do just that.
When we tried it out, we found that it was TERRIBLE!  It was very limited, and
didn't record or help us with 1/10 of what we thought it would help us do.
I said, I could write a MUCH better program than this, so I did.  I had the
best beta test site in the world (my own wedding) to refine and polish it.  I
later sent it to my distributor (I have several other software packages on
the market) in California To review.  Although he (and another fellow on their
staff who was getting married) said that it was very good, they didn't want
to carry it because they said it had limited market appeal.  I let that stop me for a while, but now I feel ready and confident to try and sell it on my own.
As far as I know, mine is the most comprehensive program out there.  It is
useful before AND after the wedding (and can even be useful in a
seperation/divorce!).

What I need to know is:

1)	What bridal magazines are the best to try and advertise in?
2)	What is a RESONABLE price for an ad?

FOR NJ AREA SPECIFICALLY:

3)	How do I find out about, and rent booth space in, those bridal shows
	that are often held in hotels?

If you have any suggestions or experience that you could share, please send
me e-mail.

Thanks very much.


						Jim Collymore

p.s.  One more question I should ask is:

4)	What sort of things would YOU want in a wedding software package if
	you were getting married (or have been married)?
Newsgroups: soc.couples,soc.men,soc.women
From: colombo@bronco.fnal.gov
Subject: Am I a grandfather? You be the judge.
Organization: Fermilab Computing Division
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 22:46:29 GMT


(I'm cross-posting as I don't know which newsgroup is best to ask this. :-)


I'm a step-father to (among others) a 23 year old (female) that recently
had a baby (girl). So my question is: Am I a grandfather, step-grandfather,
or what?  And what of my parents, are they some sorta great-grandparents?
I don't even want to bring MY grandmother into this, she's getting a bit
senile and probably doesn't even know/remember that I'm married. ;-)

You'll probably say that I'm a grandfather, so maybe I should put it this
way, what do you tell a child that has four grandfathers AND four
grandmothers?  Will I be a great-step-grandfather when they have kids?

On a related note, is being a step-parent forever?  Does it apply to say
an older couple that marry?  Would all of their children (regardless of
their present age) automatically be step-children?  I was wondering if
it doesn't apply if children are over 21.

 ___________________________________________________________________________
 *****  *   *  From the e-net desk of: Rick Colombo CD/DCD/DSG    *    *
 *      **  *  Fermi Nat'l Acc'l Lab   708-840-8225 Fermilab     * *   *
 ***    * * *  P.O. Box 500   MS 369   Feynman Computer Center  *****  *
 *      *  **  Batavia, Ill. USA 60510 Colombo@fnal.fnal.gov    *   *  *****
 *  Sure to get `Flamed' if I didn't cross all my i's and dot all my t's ;-)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: lpj@col.hp.com (Laura Johnson)
Subject: Re: Ending a marriage
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:39:54 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

srp@babar.mmwb.ucsf.edu (Scott R. Presnell) writes:
> 
> Responsibility, schmility.  There are plenty of other ways that marriages
> come to an end.  Imagine if you will, this additional case.  The woman is
> quiet, stubborn and evasive.  The man senses something wrong for *months,*
> but the woman denies any problem.  She finally gets it across that there is
> trouble, but by the time it gets out, she's already out of love (moreover
> what she doesn't immedately admit to is that there is someone else).  She
> make the statement: "I have some major problems - I want to move out."  The
> man says, "lets try counseling, or at least lets try to discuss what the
> problem is..."  Counseling doesn't happen because she doesn't want it.  The
> time between initial statement and moving out passes without resolving any
> issues.  Her mind is made up, divorce becomes inevitable.
> 
> My point is it doesn't only take wifebeating, or an "intolerable" situation
> to end a marriage in a one sided fashion, rather that it takes *both*
> parties in an attempt to repair a troubled marriage (let alone have a
> successful one).
> 
> 	- Scott

I agree that it takes both parties to repair a troubled marriage. However,
I still think the woman (or the man, if he's the one that's convinced
the marriage is over) should give the other party time to "make his (or her)
case." In your example, she SHOULD be willing, if not to go to counseling,
at least to discuss what the problem is. I am not, and was not, saying this
will save the marriage: if she's written it off, it's dead. But taking the
time to discuss it is the least she can do, and yes damnit, I DO think she
has a responsibility to do this.

By the way, in your example, I do think it's wrong for the woman to "deny
any problem" when there is a problem. I realize she may be afraid or 
unwilling to speak, but I think it is WRONG for her not to speak. 

You say "The
time between initial statement and moving out passes without resolving any
issues" as if to contradict my statement that she should allow this time
(that she should not move out immediately). I think she should allow this
time anyway because (1) the husband may actually have a solution to what
she thought was insoluble ["Honey, it's okay with me if we're not
monogamous!"] and (2) at least he is not blindsided, and does not have to
spend the next 20 years wondering why their marriage broke up: they have
discussed it; he may not agree or even understand, but he knows as much
as she was capable of communicating. 

Obviously these are my opinions and my ethics. Your mileage may vary.
-- 
Laura Johnson
lpj@hpctdls.col.hp.com
Opinions expressed are my own, but may be licensed for a nominal fee.
From: srp@babar.mmwb.ucsf.edu (Scott R. Presnell)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: Ending a marriage
Date: 25 Aug 92 19:28:54 GMT
Organization: UCSF Computer Graphics Lab

lpj@col.hp.com (Laura Johnson) writes:

>In no way should it be a surprise to one spouse when the other spouse
>says "I want out." Even if she believes there is no way to save the
>marriage, I believe she has a responsibility to talk to her husband,
>first saying, "I have major problems with this marriage and here's why." 

In the ultimate perfect world - yes, and I commend the women who have that
strength.

>Maybe he will have ideas of what to say or do that will change the
>situation, or maybe not; but she needs to give him time to think
>about the fact that the marriage is not working, before she says
>"I'm leaving."

>(I can visualize a situation where this would not work--say, he beats
>her, or something else happens that suddenly makes the situation completely
>intolerable; then she must say "I'm leaving now because...". But that's

>-- 
>Laura Johnson
>lpj@hpctdls.col.hp.com
>Opinions expressed are my own, but may be licensed for a nominal fee.

Responsibility, schmility.  There are plenty of other ways that marriages
come to an end.  Imagine if you will, this additional case.  The woman is
quiet, stubborn and evasive.  The man senses something wrong for *months,*
but the woman denies any problem.  She finally gets it across that there is
trouble, but by the time it gets out, she's already out of love (moreover
what she doesn't immedately admit to is that there is someone else).  She
make the statement: "I have some major problems - I want to move out."  The
man says, "lets try counseling, or at least lets try to discuss what the
problem is..."  Counseling doesn't happen because she doesn't want it.  The
time between initial statement and moving out passes without resolving any
issues.  Her mind is made up, divorce becomes inevitable.

My point is it doesn't only take wifebeating, or an "intolerable" situation
to end a marriage in a one sided fashion, rather that it takes *both*
parties in an attempt to repair a troubled marriage (let alone have a
successful one).

	- Scott
-- 
Scott Presnell				        +1 (415) 476-9890
Pharmaceutical Chemistry, S-926			srp@cgl.ucsf.edu
University of California
San Francisco, CA 94143-0446