HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bl275@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dan Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Going to the Concinnati RG?
Date: 11 Nov 1992 02:10:06 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Reply-To: bl275@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dan Diaz)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Im interested in hearing from anyone planning to attend the Cincinnati RG
in December.
-- 
Dizzy Dan         ddiaz@cwru.bitnet      bl275@cleveland.freenet.edu
Department of Molecular Genetics - Albert Einstein College of Medicine
        "I've lost my religion; please return if found"
From: skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Xerox of GMAT score OK for admission?
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:17:00 GMT
Organization: Draper Laboratory


>And to the guy who said to look it up again -- I never looked it up
>the first time, but now I have and Webster's says "trademark -- used
>for a xerographic copier."

The several dictionaries I've seen say Xerox is a trademark, and
they also say that Xerox, or xerox, can be a noun or a verb.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Voting Analysis
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:29:54 GMT

In article <1992Nov09.200308.1686@bnr.ca> "Rodney Adams" <RADAMS@BNR.CA> writes:
>In article <1992Nov9.001841.10616@eagercon.com>, eager@eagercon.com
>(Michael J. Eager) writes:
>|>In almost all cases, with great precision and accuracy, I can determine 
>|>that a vote was cast and with great assurance, tell what the meaning of the
>|>vote was.
>
>Although I definitely agree that voting sends a clearer meaning than not
>voting, consider this:  I tuned into CNN on the night of the election
>and heard that the results of a poll revealed that the majority want
>less government, less government spending, and lower taxes, but they
>elected a Democrat as President!  Considering only the votes themselves, 
>one might be deceived into believing that the majority actually voted FOR 
>Clinton, as opposed to voting AGAINST Bush and the current state of the 
>economy.  Then there's the race for Texas Railroad Commissioner, for which
>the choices were among the incumbent Democrat who was appointed based upon 
>false credentials in her resume (she lied about having received a degree), 
>a Republican who condoned sex parties thrown on taxpayers' money, and a 
>Libertarian who wanted to eliminate the office for which he was running.
>Do you think that many Texans actually voted FOR one of these three
>candidates, rather than AGAINST the other two?  While you may be able to
>decipher the "meaning" behind a vote, my point is that a vote, in and of
>itself, is not generally enough to determine the voter's intentions.

Ironic that the thread started with a position that not voting sends
a message and the result is that we seem to have determined that even
voting doesn't necessarily do this.  Seems all we have left is to
recommend ballots with comment spaces at the bottom.

GMS
From: skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: IQ Test Creation Question
Date: 9 Nov 92 09:57:00 GMT
Organization: Draper Laboratory


>From: Halden Stein <stein@bcstec.ca.boeing.com>
>Message-ID: <4125@bcstec.ca.boeing.com>
>
>I understand how someone with an IQ greater than mine can develop
>test items to judge my abilities. Who creates the test for someone
>such as Marylin Vos Savant (highest IQ at the moment)? It seems that
>the test creators would need to have higher IQs than the test takers.

Some tests which less "intelligent" people can make up for "smarter"
people - all they need to do is look up things to ask and/or time
the performance:

  vocabulary (most important skill on some IQ tests)
  digit span
  general information
  block assembly (timed)
  repeating sentences from memory

But you're also right - it is considerably more difficult to make up
some types of questions for high scorers - a fact which the ETS knows
all too well.  One of the biggest problems in creating new forms of the
SAT and the GRE is creating good questions to differentiate among people
scoring around 700 and up.  A disproportionate number of trial questions
on this end of the scale have to be thrown out due to ambiguities not
anticipated by the test writers.  The ETS is particularly careful to
reexamine questions missed in the experimental section by people who
scored near 800 on the normed section.  So, to some degree, they let
their "smartest" test takers screen their more difficult future
questions.

Incidentally, some of MVS's astronomical Stanford-Binet IQ of 228 was
due to an age multiplier.  I believe she got a perfect score on the
adult version of the test at age 10.  But she didn't do too bad on the
Mega Test a few years ago either - 46 our of 48.
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Boycotting the Vote
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:58:12 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <1992Nov9.182821.10178@engage.pko.dec.com>,
moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com wrote:
> 
> In article <1992Nov9.150527.1931@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, edp@math.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil) writes...
> >In article <mike_steiner-211092120408@192.35.50.131>,
> >mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
> 
> >>It will?  The World Almanac has listings of how many people voted for which
> >>candidates in the last presidential election; "none of the above" was
> >>listed as having received votes.  My copy is at home, so I don't have
> >>access to it here; otherwise I'd quote from it.
> 
> >I will quote from it; the World Almanac says "None of the above         
> >(Nevada option)".  What you suggest does not happen in other states.
> 
> Write-ins are counted and tabulated separately in Massachusetts, and the
> results of votes, including write-ins, is public information.  Any write-ins of
> "None of the above" will be counted and made available to anyone interested
> enough to look it up.
> 
> It may be that the World Almanac simply doesn't bother to include write-ins.
> I think the "None of the above" in Nevada is actually on the ballot.

That is true; it is on the ballot in Nevada.  IMO, it should be on the
ballot in every state, for every election.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Now that I have a reader that can do .sigs, I can't think of a witty |
|one to put here, so I won't.  All normal disclaimers apply.          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: jimt@carson.u.washington.edu (James Thompson)
Subject: Re: 10 Mensans in a Room with 27 Opinions
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 21:48:49 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.024402.29844@eagercon.com> eager@eagercon.com writes:

>This reminds me of the story about the three umpires who were sitting 
>around shooting the breeze.  They got to talking about calling pitches.
>
>The first umpire said "I calls them as I see them".
>
>The second umpire said "I calls them as they is". 
>
>The third umpire, older and wiser than the other two, said
>"Boys, until I calls them, they ain't".
>
>---
>Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
>Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
>1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141
>

Was the third umpire's name Schrodinger, by any chance?

Quantum sports.  What will they think of next?


Jim
From: jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Transportation to RG's
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 21:07:45 EDT
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

rr@chem.ucsd.edu (Roxanne Rohmann) writes:

>In re-reading, this sounds cold, but really, volunteers do 
>wear out.  Shouldn't people be able to take care of themselves?

Actually, Roxanne, I think you're not being cold - but just looking
out for the interests of the group.  Burnt out volunteers mean they're
not going to volunteer the next time!

The odd thing is that we're seeing people EXPECTING to have their
hands figuratively "held" in getting to our Boston RG.  We've had:

    - one guy writting from upstate NY demanding that we give him
      a complete bus schedule, where to switch, when to board that
      goes from his house to the RG.  He says he has a car but doesn't
      want to use it.

    - ditto from a woman in New Jersy.  Have car but wants complete
      train schedule.

    - a dozen people who have cars who live locally but suddenly
      demand detailed explainations of how to use public transportation
      to get to the RG.

Some Background: We've had our RG in the same hotel for the past 4 years.
As a consequence, we've managed to get super cheap hotel room rates.
(i.e. $48.00 per night versus the best rate we could get IN BOSTON was
$79.00 per night and that was because we promised at least 1000 people
were coming to our '94 AG!)  If we moved to a more central hotel, the
Boston RG would become considerably more pricey.

                                               - John Cooley
                                                 LocSec, Boston Mensa

 ==========================================================================
       John Cooley              Zappa as a waste management engineer: 
                                  "Hey, there, Brother!  Whatcha
    jcooley@miracle.com            doing with that Cosmic Debris?"  

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: WHAT IS INTELLIGENCE
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:44:10 GMT

>>>>> On Mon, 02 Nov 92 03:09:16 GMT, mdiehl@triton.unm.edu (J. Michael Diehl) said:
>
>Okay, I'll take a stab at this. Intelligence is not a single measurable
>entity, but a compilation of several attributes that contribute to the
>overall measure of "intelligence" as we understand it. Presently, I would
>guess that the standard techniques of IQ measurement can measure 2 or 3 of
>the "intelligence variables" but no more. As well, these measures are
>probably biased towards mechanical thinkers, and more specifically, males.

If this is true, then why is the average IQ of men and women so close?
Or is this a wrong assumption on my part?  And why would a test for
verbal skills not favor women?  And why do the mechanical portions of
the test not favor males who are at the opposite end of the spectrum,
due to males' wider standard deviation of IQ test scores?  Or are all
males less intelligent than they seem to be on the basis of test scores?
Or should all tests be renormed for sex?  Are some?  Kjeld, opinions?

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: 10 Mensans in a Room with 27 Opinions
Date: 5 Nov 92 02:44:02 GMT
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting

In article 348@fs1.mcc.ac.uk, zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) writes:
>In article <01Nov92154721@miracle.com> jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley) writes:
>>>>lana@magenta.corp.sgi.com (Lana Mountford) writes:
>>>> Someone once said "If you put 10 Mensans in a room, you'll end up with
>>>> 15 opinions."
>>>jwp@chem.ucsd.edu (John Pierce) writes:
>>>That person was an optimist.  My experience is that at least half of those
>>>people will have at least three mutually contradictory opinions each.
>>John!  You're positively absolutely WRONG here!
>>But, then again, I also think you're right on the money!
>>Can't we find some middle ground here?  How about 10 Mensans in a
>>room sometimes have 10 opinions, sometimes 1 opinion, sometimes
>>more than 10.  ( ;^)  )  
>
>Opinions?????   Listen, sonny, I deal in FACTS!


This reminds me of the story about the three umpires who were sitting 
around shooting the breeze.  They got to talking about calling pitches.

The first umpire said "I calls them as I see them".

The second umpire said "I calls them as they is". 

The third umpire, older and wiser than the other two, said
"Boys, until I calls them, they ain't".

---
Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: vance@cco.caltech.edu (Vance R. Haemmerle)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Xerox of GMAT score OK for admission?
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:05:51 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: alumni.caltech.edu

In article <TSHIELDS.92Nov4145828@woodie.us.oracle.com> tshields@us.oracle.com (Thomas A. Shields Jr.) writes:
>
>I'm planning to apply for admission, and I have the standard printout
>from ETS showing my GMAT score high enough to qualify without more
>testing.  Can I just Xerox that and send it in with the form from the
>FAQ (and $15) and get admitted?  Or do I need to pay ETS to send the
>score directly to Mensa?  Thanks in advance.
>

I had ETS forms showing my qualifying SAT and GRE scores.  I sent
Mensa the originals and they were returned to me unharmed.  They
state that all supporting documentation will be returned and I
don't see any reason not to trust them with it.


>By the way, just a newcomer's perspective, but the light/heat ratio in
>this group is pretty fierce.  Are all Mensa gatherings like this?

 All the Mensa gatherings I have been to have been very civilized ;)
 The people were friendly and fun.  The people were much more
 diverse then I first expected and not people I would generally
 meet working at a University.  I feel that the lack of face-to-face
 communication on the network leads to people saying things they
 would not usually say in social gatherings.

>
>-ts-
>--
>Tom Shields, Multimedia Developer      (415) 506-6182      tshields@oracle.com
>Oracle Corporation, Box 659505, Redwood Shores, CA, 94065   =What .sig virus?=

Vance Haemmerle
Lunar & Planetary Lab
University of Arizona 
vance@alumni.caltech.edu
vance@lpl.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: IQ Test Creation Question
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 15:32:55 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.013623.10030@u.washington.edu> jimt@carson.u.washington.edu (James Thompson) writes:
>In article <1992Nov9.192300.5713@cbnewse.cb.att.com> gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>>
>>Why not devise a problem that takes you a certain amount of time to
>>complete and expect the "smarter" person to do it faster?
>>
>WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.  If I pose problems at the 4th grade level

I can see how one may jump to this conclusion.  However, it is a generalization
and is wrong.  There are many questions which can be answered by employing
an elegant solution, but for which there is a brute force method which takes
longer available.  In these cases, the time factor is a useful measure of
intelligence and, for that matter, creativity, which, I am told, is a harder
quantity to evaluate.

>to adults, and then score on how many of them a person completes within a
>certain amount of time, I don't think that what I am measuring is intelligence!

You're right in that you don't think so.  But that only applies to the
limited scope of the particular problems you are describing.

>I think of (at least one aspect of) intelligence as the ability to grasp
>complex concepts and apply them.  No matter how fast I can do long division,

You're correct that this is one aspect of intelligence.  Long division is
a reductio ad absurdum.

>if I just can't quite get a handle on what integrals are good for, then I'm
>not highly (mathematically) intelligent.  Once you get significantly above the
>conceptual limit of the person devising the test, you're not measuring
>intelligence any more -- just speed.

That is the key difference between the generalization of all measurements
of intelligence by speed in solving and the selective choice of problems
in which speed reflects intelligence.

>I can see, though, how a test that covers a wide range of subjects (a "high
>brainwidth" test) could overcome this:
>If each section is written by people who specialize in and excell in that area,
>then the overall score may be able to indicate higher intelligence than that
>of any of the writers.  To do this, we assume that the testee is better at
>some types of problems than others-- that there is some non-uniform distibution
>of skills.  In hisr own area of expertise, we can expect that the certifiable
>genius will "peg" the test.  If the testee also aces a large number of other

In this case, then, you are measuring the quantity of problems the
testee can complete satisfactorily, and the speed with which the testee
completes each problem gives that testee an edge in completing other
problems (testicles?) for which the testee has less ability/intelligence,
so if you have the balls to do it, you'd be nuts not to try all the
problems in a case like that.

GM("Too Early")S
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Subject: Re: Geometric Problem
Originator: cjdcosta@zepplin.ece.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 22:31:54 GMT


kvdoel@cs.ubc.ca (Kees van den Doel)->

>Suppose we have a regular tetrahedron in a sphere, i.e. all of
>it's vertices are on the surface of the sphere.
>Now you are allowed to distort the tetrahedron by moving it's
>vertices on the sphere under the condition that the area of each
>triangle remains constant.

..And since all the triangles initially have the same area, they 
must therefore always have the same area..

>Describe the ways that the tetrahedron can be distorted.
>

If the sphere is to remain the same size too, it can't be done.
If the sphere can change in volume,well, this is how I'd do it:


1>You have four surfaces that are equilateral triangles.
  You can distort the tetrahedron by making these into isosceles
  triangles. Each isosceles triangle has two 'sides' of equal length
  and one 'base'.

2>Divide the four triangular surfaces into pairs of two each. Try to
  visualise each pair to consist of two isosceles triangles joined
  to each other at the base with some acute angle between them.
  So two bases would comprise two of the six edges of the distorted 
  tetrahedron (d.t.) These base edges are perpendicular to each other.

3>Each isosceles triangle of any one pair will share its sides with
  one side of each isosceles triangle of the other pair. There are four
  sides in all. These comprise the remaining four edges of the d.t.


With this configuration,  If you choose to increase the angle between 
the two isoceles triangles of each pair, you end up 'squashing' the
tetrahedron. In the limit, you end up with a flat, square-shaped surface
(each side of the surface comprising one of the isoceles triangle pairs.
Each triangle has a base equal to the diameter of the sphere, and each side
would be radius times square root of two.

If you choose to decrease the angle between the two isoceles triangles 
of each pair, you end up 'stretching' the tetrahedron, with the bases 
shrinking and the sides lengthening. In the limit,  you end up with a
straight line of infinite length- the isosceles triangles have sides
of infinite length, and a base of length zero.

>I like this problem because it seems to require no knowledge,
>just insight.

..And extraordinarily good communication skills to present an ascii-
handicapped solution. 

Have a blast.
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: RESULTS FOR TAI STANDARD INTELLIGENCE TEST
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:47:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: 192.mike_steiner-051192104333
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <1992Nov5.031100.27122@ncsu.edu>, scott@bogus.network.address
(Scott Tai) wrote:

[omitted]

> Conclusion
> ----------
> 
> radams appears to be the most intelligent poster to
> rec.org.mensa, followed by ehp and eager.
> 
> The posts are the only tangible information one has
> about rec.org.mensa posters, and these conclusions 
> are based solely on this information.  Cases like
> this are when standardized tests are useful...

The conclusions are invalid because you failed to consider that some of us
might intentionally adjust the comprehension level of the messages to the
target audience.  For instance, I usually attempt to write at the
sixth-grade level when writing to you, so that you can understand it.  This
pulls down the overall grade-level of what I write on the newsgroup.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Now that I have a reader that can do .sigs, I can't think of a witty |
|one to put here, so I won't.  All normal disclaimers apply.          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Subject: Re: RESULTS FOR TAI STANDARD INTELLIGENCE TEST
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 07:29:59 GMT

In article 27122@ncsu.edu, scott@bogus.network.address (Scott Tai) writes:

>userid		words	posts	words/post
>------		-----	-----	----------

>eager   	 199	  2-	  100-
>	       -----	---	 ----
>total*	       30208	216	  140
>
>average posts/person:     3.7
>average words/post:	139.8
>
>++: far greater than average
> +: greater than average
> -: less than average
>--: far less than average
>
>userid		 sent  	word
>------		 ----  	----
>eager++    	 18.0+  4.63+
>                ----  	----
>average	 17.9	4.47
>
> +: sentence/word length above average
> -: sentence/word length below average
>
>++: above average in both categories
>--: below average in both categories

>Next, four readability tests were applied to the
>files for each user.  Higher scores indicate
>longer words and sentences, among other things.
>The correlation between higher scores and higher
>intelligence is likely to be quite high.
>...
>
>userid		Kincaid	Auto Colemn* Flesch
>------		------- ---- ------- ------
>eager	 	 11.2    9.4    9.8   13.5
>
>radams appears to be the most intelligent poster to
>rec.org.mensa, followed by ehp and eager.


Hot damn!   It seems I don't post much, but I pack a bunch into them
little sesquipedelian words.  Finally getting the aclaim, whether 
hidden in a subordinate or coordinated clause, that I so richly deserve.

Thanks, Scotty, for the stats ;-)  

(Now if I can only find someone who is impressed ... )

---
Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: How to get IQ tests
Date: 14 Nov 92 00:32:07 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <1992Nov12.232337.23058@eagercon.com>, eager@eagercon.com
(Michael J. Eager) wrote:
> 
> In article 25367@vela.acs.oakland.edu, jmwojtal@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Wojo) writes:
> >I was wondering how a person can take an IQ test?
> >
> >I never took one in school, and I just wanted to know what my IQ is.  Do you go
> >to a school and ask for one, or what.  Can anyone give me advice on getting one
> >for me please?
> 
> I don't know where Oakland University is.  I don't even know what continent it is
> on.  

I believe that if the domain is .org, .edu, .com. .mil, or .gov, the domain
is within the USA.  If the domain is not within the USA, then it is the ID
of the country (e.g, .ca for Canada, .uk for the United Kingom, .nz for New
Zealand, and .oz for Oz--er, Australia).

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Now that I have a reader that can do .sigs, I can't think of a witty |
|one to put here, so I won't.  All normal disclaimers apply.          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+