HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Sat, 19 Dec 1992 11:05:00 CST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         DAVID NYE <NYEDA@UWEC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Lyme Disease/Garlic-Vit.C 'Cure' ...

>>Does anyone know of any alternative remedies or treatments for Lyme Disease?
>>This is for a person who has tried various antibiotics with only very
>>limited help in relieving the symptoms.
>>I have heard that high doses of garlic and vitamin C can actually kill th
>>spirochytes that cause the disease and live in the body.

>Oh, please.  This is foolishness, and destructive foolishness.
>Failure to get proper high doses of antibiotics AT ONCE with Lyme
>disease can lead to a lifetime of disability.

I agree.  However there is no evidence that *prolonged* courses of high
dose antibiotics like Rocephin after an initial adequate course are of
much help either.  There is recent evidence that that most "chronic Lyme
disease" may actually be fibromyalgia, somehow triggered by the initial
Lyme infection.  Attempts to treat it as fibromyalgia have been more
rewarding.  See for example:

    Sigal LH. Current recommendations for the treatment of Lyme disease.
      Drugs 1992;43(5):683-99.
    Dinerman H and AC Steere. Lyme disease associated with fibromyalgia.
      Ann Intern Med 1992;117:281-5.

David Nye
nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Return-Path: <Darla@cup.portal.com>
X-Origin: The Portal System (TM)
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Sat, 12 Dec 1992 05:23:55 PST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         Darla@CUP.PORTAL.COM
Subject: Re: HOW TO SUB

Hi All,

I'd just like to clarify a recent posting that contained some
inaccurate information.

=>I just have a little to add about GEnie and the Internet
=>(this is from the last "GEnie LiveWire" newsletter, Nov/Dec 92):
=>To subscribe to INTERNET (once you're a GEnie member):  type
=>INTERNET or M207.  Subscriptions to INTERNET cost $9.95/month,
=>with all incoming mail received free.  Outgoing messages are an
=>additional $.40 apiece.  This is in addition to the Basic Services

This has changed as of November 1, 1992. Incoming messages ARE
charged at a very high rate. This is even if the letters are not
read by the user. The incoming message charge is per 5000 K. (One
of my typical mail packets are usually more then 100000 K)
Genies Basic rate of $4.95 a month is a good rate if you just
want to use the basic service..(The Unix help service and all
file downloading is $6/hr)

I've been a GEnie member for approx 2 yrs. Please be careful
as I have experience with the 'promo's being extremely misleading
and billing is EXTREMELY slow to respond to their frequent
billing errors.

                    ()|||()    Portal darla@cup.portal.com
                   \\ . . //          darla@shell.portal.com
                   === v ===   AOL kuby2u@.aol.com
                   //`---'\\   WIX darla GEnie KUBY
                    //|||\\
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
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Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Sat, 19 Dec 1992 20:43:00 CST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         DAVID NYE <NYEDA@UWEC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Lyme Disease/Garlic-Vit.C 'Cure' ...

>The claims of "fibromyalgia" are just the latest round of emotional,
>irrational claims without factual basis made by primarily by
>rheumatologists trying to protect their research monies by denying the
>now conclusive evidence that long-term Lyme symptoms result from
>persistent spirochetal infection, not some "post-Lyme syndrome" or its
>newer name, "fibromyalgia."

I will leave it to the other readers of this list to reach their own
conclusions about who is indulging in "emotional, irrational claims
without factual basis".  We've had this out before in sci.med, where as
I recall you didn't get a very sympathetic audience.  The slandering of
Dr. Sigal in your next post (to which I won't bother repling) was in
response to my post there.

>It is true that prolonged courses of antibiotics will not cure the
>disease _once_it_has_become_established_. Prompt, high-dose antibiotic
>therapy has tremendous success, however.  Lyme can be a minor annoyance
>or a major, life-destroying nightmare, depending on the actions taken
>in the first 6 weeks of infection.  This is what I was referring to
>in my suggestion that one not toy around with garlic, etc.

Here we agree entirely.  So why the flames in the first paragraph?  It
seems like just a mention of fibromyalgia makes starts you foaming at
the mouth.  My sole interest in this matter is in helping patients feel
better.  I get no kickbacks from insurance companies for my posts.  I
don't even accept pens from drug reps.

Whether or not there is persistence of Borrelia bergdorferi after an
adequate course of Rocephin is unimportant, although I think the
evidence is against it.  What *is* important is what treatment results
in the most improvement.  Conspiracy theories and name-calling don't
carry much weight with me.  Scientific studies published in peer-
reviewed journals do.  If you know of a study that says that long-term,
high-dose antibiotics (or garlic and vitamin C for that matter) makes
more patients feel better than treating "chronic Lyme disease" as
fibromyalgia, please post the references (something more than a
reference to an abstract).  By the way, did you ever follow up on my
suggestion that you try treatment for fibromyalgia?  If not, please
reconsider it.

David Nye
nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:21:45 EST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         Roger Burns <BFU@NIHCU.BITNET>
Subject: Re: HELP: macrobiotics in DC area

I've taken an extra moment to glance through my summer copy of PATHWAYS
and nothing strikes my eye regarding macrobiotics.  You might want
to find if there's a USA center for macrobiotics somewhere & ask them
what resources are available in the DC area.  For that matter, you
might have a better chance of getting a knowledgeable response if
you pose your question to the more widely-read HOLISTIC list based
at LISTSERV@SIUCVMB.BITNET .


-- Roger Burns              bfu@cu.nih.gov    bfu@nihcu.bitnet
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:10:52 EST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         Roger Burns <BFU@NIHCU.BITNET>
Subject: Re: HELP: macrobiotics in DC area

> Can anyone direct me
> 1) to organizations that help people learn the ways of macrobiotics  and/or
> 2) to MDs that base their curative practices in macrobiotics.
>
> I'm particularly interested in the cure of serious illness through
> macrobiotics. Prefer organizations/physicians in or near Montgomery County.

I have a guess that it will be difficult to find an M.D. who practices
macrobiotic methods -- I have a sense that the two perspectives are
quite at odds.  In any case, the best thing to do is to find a copy
of the tabloid-size free PATHWAYS magazine (quarterly) which is
available at most D.C. area health food stores.  In particular, towards
the back there is a "Resource Directory" which will have an extensive
listing of virtually all alternative services in the DC area (too
extensive for me to search & type in here) including MDs.  That's your
best bet.


-- Roger Burns              bfu@cu.nih.gov    bfu@nihcu.bitnet
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
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Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Sun, 20 Dec 1992 15:48:00 CST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         DAVID NYE <NYEDA@UWEC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Lyme Disease/Garlic-Vit.C 'Cure' ...

>Steere, Sigal, et al. are denying the existence of persistent infection.
>Look at their publication history.  Their denial is responsible for
>the denial of research monies which could lead to an end to suffering.

These guys don't get to hand out the grants, you know.  The NIH and
other funding agencies don't even consult them regarding who grants
should go to (this would generate a conflict of interest).  Everyone
competes for the money based on the soundness of their proposals.  I
have met Alan Steere and I can tell you that he is interested only in
understanding Lyme disease and how to best treat it.  His motivation is
not political.  These good people you are slandering are just trying to
help you and your fellow Lyme disease sufferers.

>>Whether or not there is persistence of Borrelia bergdorferi after an
>>adequate course of Rocephin is unimportant, although I think the
>>evidence is against it.

>Could you say, "Whether or not the AIDS virus is amenable to treatment
>is unimportant, although I think the evidence is against it."????

Your sentence says exactly the opposite of what mine does.  The issue of
persistence is not as important as what treatment works.  Long-term
antibiotics don't help.  Treatment for fibromyalgia does.

>Please cite a single reference which refutes the papers I have cited
>showing persistent infection.

Those are abstracts, not papers.  That means the study hasn't yet been
reviewed for scientific merit for inclusion in a peer-reviewed journal.
Quite a few abstracts never make the cut.  As for refutations, you could
start by reading those two papers I cited.  There have been several
other recent papers on this issue, including one coauthored by one of my
partners, Mike Finkel (I managed to talk him into getting a modem.  Now
I just have to get him on the net!).  I don't have that reference handy
but I think I gave it to you earlier over in sci.med.

David Nye
nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
From: ajmiller@castor.fccc.edu (Al Miller)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Looking for a Club in Pa.
Keywords: Club
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:48:06 GMT
Organization: Fox Chase Cancer Center
Originator: ajmiller@castor


 Hi there,

    I looking for an archery club in Pa. ( Bucks County area ). Is there one?

                                    Thanks in advance...

                                          Al Miller
Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: kyle@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Kyle Wohlmut)
Subject: Re: Bass Pro Shops
Followup-To: alt.archery
Summary: Think global, act loco
Keywords: You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance.
Organization: Rocking Pig Enterprises
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:06:23 GMT

In article <1goscbINN9e@male.EBay.Sun.COM> greg@redeye.EBay.Sun.COM (greg) writes:

>Hi fellow archery enthusiasts.  I have ordered
>stuff from Bass Pro for many years and have
>always been satisfied.  They are much more than
>a "mail order house".  I visited there showroom
>once and it was amazing.  If you're anywhere
>near Springfield,MO I recommend stopping by.

Ok, but let's assume that I'm NOT going to be anywhere near
Springfield in the forseeable future... how do I get a catalog, and/or
a phone number?

/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/
                       /               
/'''   Kyle Wohlmut    -  'Heute back ich, morgen brau ich, und       
c-OO                   /   uebermorgen hol ich mir der Koenigin ihr      
   \   Rocking Pig     -   Kind.  Ach, wie gut dass niemand weiss,
  -     Enterprises    /   dass ich kyle@csli.stanford.EDU heiss.'    
                       -                                              
-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-
Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: rigg@valeron.che.wisc.edu (Tim Rigg)
Subject: Re: Bass Pro Shops
Organization: University of Wisconsin-Madison, Chemical Engineering
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:45:45
	<92352.122323IFRAM@ASUACAD.BITNET>
In-reply-to: 's message of Thursday, 17 Dec 1992 12:23:23 MST

Here is even more mail order info from rec.hunting:

>Subject: re: Mail Order Companies.
>Date: Thu, 2 May 91 13:59:00 EDT
>From: keith@clodii.columbiasc.NCR.COM

A reader requests information on mail-order companies.
Here is what I have:

    Cabela's 
    812-13th Ave.
    Sydney
    Nebraska, 69160
    1-800-237-4444


    Gander Mountain, Inc.
    Box 248, Hwy. W.
    Wilmot, Wis. 53192
    1-800-558-9410 or
    1-414-862-2344


    Bass Pro Shops
    1935 S. Campbell
    Springfield, Mo. 65898-4046
    1-800-227-7776
    (1-800 BASS-PRO)

    The Sportsman's Guide
    965 Decatur Ave.    
    N. Golden Valley, Minnesota 55427-4398
    1-800-888-5222

I have only ordered from Bass Pro Shops and received good service but I
suspect the others are reputable also. I am not affiliated with any of 
these companies.  Hope this helps you.       
                                           Keith Boyd

    
---
| Keith M. Boyd  (NCR E&M Cola.) |  Nothing could be fina' than huntin' and  |
| 3325 Platt Springs Rd.  _______|  fishin' in South Carolina!  -Me-         |
| West Cola., S.C. 29170 | Std Disclaimers | keith@clodII.columbiasc.NCR.COM |
| ph: 803-791-6419  |   From uunet: !uunet!ncrcom!ncrcae!sauron!clodII!keith |



--
    ...  Then they came for me,
	   and by that time there was no one
	     left to speak up for me. (Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945)

Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine)
Subject: Bass Pro Shops
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:08:31 GMT

Does anyone have any experience with this mail order house?

Thanks!
Brent

PS-  They have an "extensive" line of archery and crossbow equipment
	but are mostly oriented towards hunting

-- 
+-------------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------+
| Brent L. Irvine         | For a mere $50 these personal  | I will be gone: |
| irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu | opinions can also be yours!    | 20 Dec - 4 Jan  |
+-------------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------+
From: hoff@fasicsv.fnal.gov (Jim Hoff)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Archery in Chicago - Northside
Date: 14 Dec 1992 19:15:56 GMT
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: fasicsv.fnal.gov
Keywords: Archery, Chicago

I'm sure you folks hear this question asked over and over, but my wife and I
would like to get involved in archery, but we really have no idea where to 
begin.  We live on the north side of Chicago (Rogers Park) and we would like
to know where to go to 1) learn 2) get the proper equipment 3) practice.  
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Also, we could really use some help as to what equipment a newbie should get.
I'm sure from past experiences in other fields that not everything is suitable
for everybody.  Please...I could really use the help, and it would be nice
to suprise my wife for the holidays.

				Thanks for everything,
					Jim Hoff
					hoff@fasic5.fnal.gov
From: efk00@cd.amdahl.com (Eddie Kieger)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: Archery Backstops???
Date: 18 Dec 92 21:41:42 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <168C184C8.CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu>, CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu
(Chris Barnes) writes:

>Seriously, it depends on how much draw wieght is being used to shoot
>the arrows.  A hay bale will be able to stop any aluminumn arrow shot
>with less than 50 lbs.  (maybe even a little more).  I've never shot
>carbon arrows into a hay bale, but from what I hear, a carbon arrow
>might go through with considerably less draw weight.  Question:  are
>you looking for something to go behind the target in the case of a real
>bad miss, or will this BE the target?

The backstop will be the backstop, and will ahve a target in front of it. 
As to the "real bad misses, I refuse to comment on my wife's accuracy (
even though her job site does NOT have net access).

After some research (and kindly advice form some of you redaders; thanx) 
I have decided to buy some STRAW bales (cheaper and, from what some have 
said, better than HAY) bales at $5/each. If covered from the rain when 
not in use (after all, we don't get much of THAT here in N. Cal.), 
they supposedly will last years. this is good news.

Thanx again to all who sent me email/posted. 

Now my wife can once again take over my range (I use the proposed corner 
of the yard for my air rifle/pistol. I'll have to have a draw-a-number 
system :-)

Later, Happy Holidaze, Eddie
Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: rigg@osnome.che.wisc.edu (Tim Rigg)
Subject: Re: Bass Pro Shops
Organization: University of Wisconsin-Madison, Chemical Engineering
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:19:57 CST
Followup-To: alt.archery
	<1992Dec17.170623.26838@Csli.Stanford.EDU>
In-reply-to: kyle@Csli.Stanford.EDU's message of Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:06:23 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.170623.26838@Csli.Stanford.EDU> kyle@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Kyle Wohlmut) writes:

   Ok, but let's assume that I'm NOT going to be anywhere near
   Springfield in the forseeable future... how do I get a catalog, and/or
   a phone number?

1-800-BASS-PRO

tim
--
    ...  Then they came for me,
	   and by that time there was no one
	     left to speak up for me. (Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945)

Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman)
Subject: Sale or Swap: Martin 50# Hunter Recurve
Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu
Organization: Wayne State University
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 13:17:35 GMT

I have a brand-new Martin 50# Hunter that I'd like to sell or swap. It's in
absolutely like new condition. I'm selling it as I've decided to stick with 
longbows, like my old Bear Cub.

The bow is a very traditional recurve with a rug rest and a stabilizer/fishing reel
insert. Very attractive, and with a nice smooth pull. It's currently listed at
$169.95 but as I got it at a good sale price, so can you- $95, postpaid, to anywhere 
in the continental US. (I'm not sure how customs would complicate shipping to 
Canada or overseas).

Besides a straight cash deal, I'd be interested in part or whole trades for 
traditional archery equipment. If you have a nice back quiver, or a longbow- 
even an old Bear Cub- I'd be interested in making a deal. What have you got? 

  Michael Edelman  mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu  1-313-577-0742
  Wayne State University    Detroit, MI
From: leonardo@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul Scott Bartelt)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: targets?
Date: 16 Dec 1992 21:28:51 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <1go584INN1ic@agate.berkeley.edu> downey@homer.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Allen B. Downey) writes:
>Hi.  I practice a bunch of target-oriented sports -- darts, pistol,
>archery, etc.  I was thinking of trying to combine a couple of them
>by getting some archery targets in the form of a dart board and playing
>the standard pub games with bow and arrow.
>
>Does anyone know if such a thing exists?  If it doesn't, I might have
>some printed.  Would people be interested in buying something like that,
>if I sold them?
>
>I was thinking of having them printed on newsprint, since it would be
>cheap, and it doesn't seem like it would be worth making them sturdier.
>Does that make sense?
>
>I was thinking of two problems, though:  you usually have to see where
>the first dart is before you throw the next, so the lines would have
>to be thick and clear.
>
>Also, since there are no wires between segments, there might be an
>occasional fist-fight.
>
>So, what do you think?
>
>ABD


	A thought on the possibility of fist fights.....
  ....sell brass knuckels along with it.....


Honestly.... Good idea....I'buy one if the price were right....Heck,
I'm an engineering student, I'll design it, you market it, will both
get filthy rich....


	
                                     \ 	 	....Going to extremes...
                                     / 
                                     \        Paul Scott Bartelt
                                     |    
                     _______         \ 		 aka leonardo....  
          *---------(  _)(__(()      /  	....@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
   ________________ / _\_____________\____________  
   )_KVC_comp_8.3__(  /   \___________K2K2K2K2K2__>
 __________________( (  *  )_________/__________
 )_KVC_comp_8.3____(  \___/_________K2K2K2K2K2__>
                    \   /___         \
            *-------(__)(__(()       /     	 ....No falls....
                                     |    	....No balls...
                                     /
                                    /
From: downey@homer.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Allen B. Downey)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: targets?
Date: 16 Dec 1992 20:57:40 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: homer.cs.berkeley.edu

Hi.  I practice a bunch of target-oriented sports -- darts, pistol,
archery, etc.  I was thinking of trying to combine a couple of them
by getting some archery targets in the form of a dart board and playing
the standard pub games with bow and arrow.

Does anyone know if such a thing exists?  If it doesn't, I might have
some printed.  Would people be interested in buying something like that,
if I sold them?

I was thinking of having them printed on newsprint, since it would be
cheap, and it doesn't seem like it would be worth making them sturdier.
Does that make sense?

I was thinking of two problems, though:  you usually have to see where
the first dart is before you throw the next, so the lines would have
to be thick and clear.

Also, since there are no wires between segments, there might be an
occasional fist-fight.

So, what do you think?

ABD
From: efk00@cd.amdahl.com (Eddie Kieger)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Archery Backstops???
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:33:36 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


Howdy all:

As a non-reader (and non-archer) I have a question:

My wife is into archery (compound bow), and I would like to set up a 
target area for her in the back yard. I have been thinking of hay bales, 
but am wondering if there is a better more weather resistant backstop 
to use. I am even wondering how good hay does for  compound bows.....

Please email me directly, as I do not often read this group.

Thanx loads, Eddie

Don't tread on me..........................................I bite
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Eddie Kieger                             efk00@cd.amdahl.com 
For Pay:      System Design Engineer     Amdahl Corp.
              Bringing you better mainframe computers
For Fun:      "River Rat"                SBU-XI SPECWARGRU1 (USNR)
              Bringing hellfire and brimstone to a river near you!
From: greg@redeye.EBay.Sun.COM (greg)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: Bass Pro Shops
Date: 17 Dec 1992 03:32:27 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: redeye.ebay.sun.com

In article <BzDn29.4qw@news.cso.uiuc.edu> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:
>Does anyone have any experience with this mail order house?
>
>Thanks!
>Brent
>
>PS-  They have an "extensive" line of archery and crossbow equipment
>	but are mostly oriented towards hunting
>
>-- 
>+-------------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------+
>| Brent L. Irvine         | For a mere $50 these personal  | I will be gone: |
>| irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu | opinions can also be yours!    | 20 Dec - 4 Jan  |
>+-------------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------+



Hi fellow archery enthusiasts.  I have ordered
stuff from Bass Pro for many years and have
always been satisfied.  They are much more than
a "mail order house".  I visited there showroom
once and it was amazing.  If you're anywhere
near Springfield,MO I recommend stopping by.

Greg


Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: ahall@library1.library.carleton.ca (Alison Hall)
Subject: Longbow, by Robert Hardy
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:40:26 GMT

For anyone who is interested, the third edition of Longbow, by Robert
Hardy was published in November. It has a new chapter on the bows found
in the ship the Mary Rose. I don't know how much it is - the book, I mean!

Alison_Hall@carleton.ca
Newsgroups: alt.archery