HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik )
Subject: Re: A deep bit of flame bait
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 04:27:57 GMT
Organization: (Evil Eye Creature from Mars, Inc.)
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc

In article <1992Dec15.145945.12803@waikato.ac.nz>, arron@waikato.ac.nz
wrote:
> 
> It seems to me that a lot of you readers in TALK.RELIGION.MISC really enjoy
> winding up Christians by putting out smart remarks/replies to any old subject.
> 
> I would just like to clarify that there is some cause for us to defend our
> Faith, it does become very important to us, and I can imagine we do look very
> funny biting the way we do.
> 
> However, it does leave me sad to think that all you guys out there are so happy
> to throw your insults at Christianity just because we appear to be dumb suckers,
> and you don't seem to want to take your lives seriously. Study, knowledge and
> understanding are all great things, but babies don't learn why they should eat,
> or indeed what is and isn't good for them as kids, before they start eating.
> Also you can't know exactly what it feels like to gain control of a car sliding
> in gravel until you've done it.
 
I guess I'm one of the prime candidates. To start with, I don't care 
what people believe in, this is a free world, and anyone could believe
in any religion/non-religion, as long as they don't kill/mutilate people, 
steal my baby, or do something that is considered to be not part of the 
'law of the land'.

At the same time I do believe that adults could handle discussions
concerning philosophical/religious matter, and by using creative and 
constructive thinking maybe someone else (a reader) or the participants 
would add something that is new and inspiring. Maybe Christians will get
a new positive look into their belief, and maybe someone is revising their
world views. All things are possible.

Also, I also don't like discussions ending up in flame wars, and even
worse, personal comments flying back and forth. That is neither polite,
nor Christian behavior.

Anyway, a lot of bright people are Christians, a lot of dumb people are
atheists. And the other way around. I don't see any correlations between
intelligence and religious feelings, but that's something I can't justify.

The core issue is that we are *free* to discuss about these issues, and 
we don't need to worry that the secret police, neither the inquisition
will knock on the door.

Anyway, have a nice holiday. By the way I'm having problems with my kid,
he won't eat, and I have a hard time telling him that the ear infection
is soon over if he takes his medicine :-). Babies sometimes refuse to eat,
in metaphorical terms.


Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.		
"Don't just do something!  Stand there!"  -- Mystery Science Theater 3000
Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:23616 alt.atheism:23372 alt.slack:3422
From: kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M Ryan)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism,alt.slack
Subject: Re: You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:08:58 GMT
Organization: not very organized
NNTP-Posting-Host: b64635.student.cwru.edu

In article <10932@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine) writes:
>In article <1992Dec11.054012.10468@microsoft.com> jenk@microsoft.com (Jen 
Kilmer) writes:>>Answer 1:
>>
>>There is a God-shaped hole in every person, and without God, a person
>>is empty.
>
>  Take Bill Cosby's advice then and put a bandaid over it to keep the
>  air in.
>
>  I have, however, had some clearly mystical experiences whilst on
>  the shitter.  Is that the hole you were referring to?  If so, what
>  do you suggest exactly that I fill it with?  

	Obviously, he's rather full of BS, so maybe he expects one to fill 
it with BS....

	Makes perfect sense: shit >>> shitter
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: dsoconne@quads.uchicago.edu (Daniel S OConnell)
Subject: Re: Latin verse for the day.
Reply-To: dsoconne@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 20:39:09 GMT

pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) writes:
>>Veritas vos liberabit (The Truth Shall Make You Free)
>Quot homines, tot sententiae (There are as many opinions as there are
>people) - Terence

Thanks for the Roma/Amor bit, and to those of you who sent me email! And now
for the Latin verse for the day:

disputandi pruritus ecclesiarum scabies

Dano
(the theologian's urge to
debate is an incurable disease)
From: young@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (young.u.huh)
Subject: Re: You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:26:59 GMT

You can continue to sin out of your own weakness 
but always be forgiven when you admit your guilt.
Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:24227 alt.discordia:596
From: batemanc@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Mad Chris)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.discordia
Subject: Swik (Quasi-Religious Festival)
Date: 18 Dec 92 12:50:11 GMT

It's that time of year again, when the spirit of Commercialism
and Greed washes over the world like so much vodkha, and children 
everywhere threaten to break Santa's legs if he doesn't bring
them what they want.

And so, my almost-friends, I come to introduce to you a new season.
The season of Swik.

Swik celebrates the true feelings of this time of year, and
encourages greed and dishonesty. Swik is a time to tell people what
you really think of them, or just to lie to them and say that you
like them when really you'd like to be ramming a shotgun down
their ignoble throats.

The joy of Swik is Getting, Shouting and Passing out.

This year will be the third time Swik has been celebrated formally,
but we hope that you will join with us in making this a time to enjoy
yourself, at anyone elses expense.

Swik runs from December 24 to December 26 with all days given equal credit.

Happy Swik 3.0, and an acceptable new year to all.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From the residents of the Isle of Wight, Forwarded to the net by Mad Chris.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
From: mam@jcnpc.cmhnet.org (Mike A. McAngus)
Subject: It's a joke son (was Re: You should be a Christian because):
Organization: Homebrew Virtual Reality Labs
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 02:30:56 GMT

Roderick Moten (rodmoten@cs.cornell.edu) wrote:
: In article <1g4pcbINN7ur@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Christopher
 Fenton) writes:
: |>
: |> fab doo's...mindless self-inflicted guilt...and all the fab
: |> glories of polyester...
: |>
:
: When was the last time you read Romans 8 and Galatians 5.

Hey Roderick,
A. This whole thread is a joke.
B. What relevance does your question have anyway?
-- 
Mike A. McAngus	(mam@jcnpc.cmhnet.org) 

Like I really need another time-consuming hobby.
This Posting Exploits Illiterates.
From: hartigan@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism,alt.slack
Subject: Re: You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Date: 11 Dec 92 19:32:51 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


In article <1992Dec11.054012.10468@microsoft.com>, jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer) writes:
> Answer 1:
> 
> There is a God-shaped hole in every person, and without God, a person
> is empty.

So THAT's what that thing is for!  I never really believed all that
talk about umbilical cords and stuff. Sounded too weird. One thing, though --
somehow I always thought God was bigger than that.

But wait....what if you're an "outie?"  Is that how you tell if you're one
of the "elect" or not?   Have to go re-read my Calvin.

> Answer 2:
> 
> Christianity is true.

Great!  Next question, please!
 
> -jen
 
Sean Hartigan
hartigan@ac.dal.ca

Eternity is in love with the productions of Time. -- Usenet Survival Guide
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: streger@saturn.sdsu.edu (Stephen Treger)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Why Jews Hate Proselytizing
Date: 17 Dec 1992 01:12:53 GMT
Organization: San Diego State University, College of Sciences
NNTP-Posting-Host: saturn.sdsu.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

   [ Text deleted to save bandwidth  ]
: #     I wasn't aware that in Judaism there is a "world to come".  
: #     Can you supply a reference?

:     While it is not the focus of Jewish belief, there have been a
:     number of references to a hereafter.  I direct you to a quite
:     interesting discussion of this in the book "Basic Judaism" by
:     Milton Steinberg.
: #>                                                           As the
: #>concept of God in Judaism is one of a loving God, ......
: #
: #     Since when?  As I read the Old Testament, the god shows a lot
: #     more cruelty, vindictiveness, and vanity than love.

:     I can think of nothing approaching the level of cruelty which
:     is the Crucifixion.  From a Jewish standpoint, it is perverse
:     and sadistic.  To kill a man for the sins of others is unjust
:     no matter what the pretext for such a murder might be, from a
:     Jewish perspective.

  I myself found the original article very interesting.  Many points 
of my own faith that I had never really thought about came out.
I too am a bit fuzzy about an afterlife, I do not have such a belief
nor do my parents or grandparents to my knowledge.
But that is neither here nor there.  One of the best things about Judaism
is how it is evolved and shaped in your own mind.  It is somewhat liek an instruction book.
  All the teachings I can think of talk of a loving god.
But of course when it all comes down to the dirt, it is only 
our own opinions we are expressing.
From: bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: 12/18/92   God's Promise in Luke 1:79
Date: 18 Dec 92 14:24:35 GMT
Organization: Starfleet Headquarters: San Francisco

psyrobtw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss) writes:
>
>	To give light
>	to them that sit in the darkness
>	and in the shadow of death,
>	to guide our feet into the way of peace.

Tell that to the Somalians.  Looks like your deity is breaking his
promise.  How many thousands of them die every day?

Read the description in the latest _Time Magazine_ of what physically
happens to a person as he starves to death, then try to tell me that
you worship a loving god.

-- 
_/_/_/  Brian Kendig                             Je ne suis fait comme aucun
/_/_/  bskendig@netcom.com                de ceux que j'ai vus; j'ose croire
_/_/                            n'etre fait comme aucun de ceux qui existent.
  /  Nolite te bastardes     Si je ne vaux pas mieux, au moins je suis autre.
 /    carborundorum.                                             -- Rousseau
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: Slaves to Jesus was Defining the kingdom of God
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:38:29 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.020127.16844@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes:
>He most certainly could experience humanity without original sin. 

Say what?

If humans have original sin, then to experience humanity he had better have it
too.  That's what it means to experience humanity: to experience those things
which are common to all humans.  If there's something common to all humans
which he has not experienced, it makes no sense to say that he has experienced
humanity.
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
From: ses2@po.CWRU.Edu (S. E. Stansfield)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Christian Holidays (was Christmas)
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:59:26 GMT
Reply-To: ses2@po.CWRU.Edu (S. E. Stansfield)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, gmiller@worldbank.org (Gene C. Miller) says:

>In article <1992Dec2.232111.21236@midway.uchicago.edu>,
>dsoconne@quads.uchicago.edu (Daniel S OConnell) wrote:
>> 
>  Surely Dano meant to type the spring equinox rather than the spring
>solstice. In any event, I haven't yet seen any sources on when the Passover
>was tied to the first full moon after the vernal equinox. Because OT
>Judaism was so emphatically male and profoundly anti-female as far as
>deities were concerned (in life as well I gather. Some orthodox sects
>apparently still practice very strong sexual segregation. Women are not
>allowed to dance with the Torah, etc.), it is interesting to me that this
>high and holy day should have been attached to a heavenly body commonly
>identified as female. Perhaps it's the sibling of another little nugget:
>Deborah, who prophesied while sitting under a palm tree and whose song is
>among the oldest pieces of literature in the Old Testament.

Actually, the Jewish calender is a Lunar one.  The months always start on
(I believe) the new moon.  Despite the misogyny of much of judaism there is
a strong feminine component, even in orthodox circles.  It is the women who
light the candles on the eve of the sabbath.  

-- 
All propositions are true in some sense, false in some sense and
meaningless in some sense.  
                               --Hagbard Celine H.M. S.H.
<this is a signature virus, to spread it, just copy into your sig-file>
From: agr00@ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Mormonism
Date: 17 Dec 92 05:24:31 GMT
Reply-To: agr00@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <17838@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:
>In article <41Rk02dr2eI001@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> agr00@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose) writes:
>>
>>Well, they are, I guess that is there problem.  I reckon the
>>missionaries that are returning as homosexuals are violating other
>>guidlines set forth as well!
>>
>>And don't tell me that they church doesn't have a problem with
>>missionaries returning homosexual, because I know them!  And not that
>>way for you sarcasitic dudes....   :-)
>>
>
>This seems to be a recurring theme with you.  We always get back
>to "sexual groping" in the temple and "missionaries returning
>homosexual".  Just what is the attraction that these images have
>for you?  You seem to really be obsessed with this stuff.  Just how
>is it that you "know" so many of these homosexual missionaries, hmmmmm?
>
>-- 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
>geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------

It shows that the missionaries do do things that the church doesn't
tell them to do, and in fact things that the church tells them not to
do.  The missionary manual says any male engaging my masterbation is
unworthy of going on a mission; so I think having intercourse with one
another after "family home evening" is out too!  The purpose was to show
that they don't always follow instruction, because it was thought of as
impossible that a missionariy could have Mormon Doctrine, "because the
church doesn't allow that".  You must have glazed over my last
sentance that you quoted, I put that there for the ones of you that
would insinuate as you have.
From: rana@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Nabeel Ahmad Rana)
Subject: Re: Is Jesus a prophet?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 10:39:20 GMT

ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik ) writes:

>If he was older than Abraham he could have been Adam, Seth, or
>something else. It does not logically imply that he's a God. Same
>with the concept 'son of God', 'son of God' does not automatically
>imply that he is God. Actually the other way around, why couldn't
>he say that :"Look here, I'm really God, but just now I'm a man
>in an human form, and the third part is the holy ghost, and when
>I'm back in heaven I'm once again part of the three parts that constitute
>God". All this was *never* said by Jesus, instead by Paul and the
>followers that wanted to create a nice religion.

Mr. Sandvik, this makes a lot of sense to me. Christianity has been
so much corrupted and has deviated from its original form it has
become a totally different religion from what Jesus originally
brougt. Those later followers and the people after them have
fabricated the sayings of Jesus, Bible and other holy scriptures
so much that it has started making less and less sense.

>A lot of the issues would not be present if Jesus would have 
>said things about the doctrines. 

I guess, he must have said a lot about the doctrines etc. But 
those words were apparently not saved.

>As long as this is not the case,
>you will always find people questioning why all this was added
>later.

So right.


Sincerely,


-- 
||\\  ||         //\\     ||\\         *******************    (Note: 
|| \\ ||        //==\\    ||//         * LOVE FOR ALL    *     views    
||  \\||abeel  //    \\.  ||\\ana      * HATRED FOR NONE *      are 
[e-mail: rana@rintintin.colorado.edu]  *******************     mine)
From: whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Bible verses for two days
Date: 16 Dec 92 15:18:11 GMT
Reply-To: whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
NNTP-Posting-Host: o231-25.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

This is one of my favorites-
verse 11
"Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you and say all kinds of  
evil against you falsely for My sake."
verse 12
"Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for  
so they persecuted the prophets who were before you."
Matthew 5:11,12 NKJV

Comments expected.

In Christ's Love,
Bryan
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
From: pmoloney@maths.tcd.ie (Paul Moloney)
Subject: Born Again Christianity Turns You Homosexual!!!! Exclusive!!!!!
Organization: Somewhere in the Twentieth Century
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:25:58 GMT

In the Sun today (no, I don't buy it - it was on the front page. Honest.
I'm a Mirror reader myself) there was a story about Justin Fashanau (bisexual
footballer, brother of John), who is in love with Julie Goodyear (Bet
from "Coronation St", also bisexual).

Anyway, in an aside, Justin explained how he found out he was bisexual. He
was in love with a girl, and sleeping with her, but then he became a
born-again christian. So after a while, he felt guilty about having
pre-marital sex, so he stopped. And then began to notice he also had
sexual feelings about men.

Of course, I don't believe a word of it. I think his church brainwashed
him into being bisexual so he'd have one more thing to be guilty about.

P.
-- 
moorcockheathersiainbankshamandcornpizzapjorourkebluesbrothersspikeleepratchett
clive  P a u l   M o l o n e y    "I'm pretty witty and you're itty bitty    pe
james  Trinity College, Dublin     And isn't it a pity the city can't see?   vr
brownbladerunnerorsonscottcardprincewatchmenkatebushbatmanthekillingjoketolkien
Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:24221 alt.pagan:14398
From: dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.pagan
Subject: Re: PAGAN, was You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Date: 18 Dec 1992 21:52:52 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <BzH27D.HBI@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, ivaliote@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Lotus ) writes:
> 
> Using a different
> name would have a more positive effect, especially amongst cynics who 
> have *way*
> too much fun with the word pagan.

Oh for crying out loud, here I decided not to call myself a witch because
too many twits were going to give me grief over it, and now some twit tells 
me there'll be problems with "pagan" too.  When will it end?  "Hi, I'm
a tree-hugging pantheistic nature worshipper, but I call myself a 
pan-Presbyterian so my mom doesn't panic."  What words *wouldn't* they
have fun with?  Maybe a Scientific Discordian, huh?  Do you think
cynics would have fun with that one?

Dawn

(do you get the impression that I don't care what cynics think of me?)


Joseph Campbell gave me hope and now I have been saved.
"Folk Song" by Bongwater
From: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (Scott Aaron)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: How to choose a Bible Translation
Date: 20 Dec 92 22:15:36 GMT
Reply-To: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University

In article <BzJD0s.9r9@world.std.com>, rjk@world.std.com (robert j kolker) writes:
>Take prospective translation and turn to Isaiah 7:14. If you find the word
>"virgin" therein, consign the translation to the flames. It is NOT a
>correct translation from the Hebrew.  The word in question is ALMAH which
>in Hebrew means a young woman of marriageable age, not virgin, although a
>virgin of marriagable age could be so designated. The Hebrew word for
>virgin is B'TULAH which is not in that verse from Isiah.

This goes a bit far, I think.  The Old Testament is a large piece of writing
and a perfect translation is impossible to make of the whole thing.  Every
translation, even Paul Harvey's JPS, will have problems.  Do the major
English translations traditionally mistranslate Isaiah 7:14?  Yes.
For John Methausen (sorry if the spelling is wrong), the intent of the
author may have been to say "virgin" but the word used does not say that;
translators should give what is there instead of guessing what was meant 
(that's where the Philippians 2:6 problem  in the NIV comes from).  An 
accurate rendering of Isaiah 7:14 does not mean an accurate translation of the 
Old Testament.

For the record, I use the New American Standard Bible which, following 
tradition, gives "virgin" in the main text but has "or maiden" in the
margin.

Forgive me but which prophet is Halacha?  Is that Malachi?

  -- Scott @Brandeis

	"But God demonstrates His	"I tell you that in the same way,
	 own love for us, in that	 there will be more joy in heaven
	 while we were yet sinners,	 over one sinner who repents, than
	 Christ died for us."		 over ninety-nine righteous persons
					 who need no repentance." 
		-- Romans 5:8 [NASB]		-- Luke 15:7 [NASB]
From: ses2@po.CWRU.Edu (S. E. Stansfield)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Date: 16 Dec 1992 07:32:17 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ses2@po.CWRU.Edu (S. E. Stansfield)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, rodmoten@cs.cornell.edu (Roderick Moten) says:

>Answer:
>
>To be Christ like and obtain a relationship with the Father.
>
>
I have a very good relation with my father, thank you.  Why should I be
christlike?  

-- 
All propositions are true in some sense, false in some sense and
meaningless in some sense.  
                               --Hagbard Celine H.M. S.H.
<this is a signature virus, to spread it, just copy into your sig-file>