HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Subject: Mo Compression
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 93 19:53:09 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Friday, Jan 08 14:52:52
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          I wonder why Detroit and Bowling Green can't get together with 
          Big Oil and the EPA and start producing high compression engines 
          again?
          
          With proper design, higher compression gives more power and uses 
          less fuel.  What about mass producing oxygenates, like MTBE, to 
          raise octane rates of premium to 100?  This would result in 
          cleaner, more efficient, and more powerful engines.  Who would 
          lose?  We would probably pay higher prices, but we already have 
          the lowest rates in the world.
          
          Which of my premises is incorrect?
          
          Eric
           

[In one of the textbooks I have on fuels, the author discusses this.
He says that the EPA and the oil companies have done an economic analysis
and have determined that the lowest overall cost works out for fuel
in the 89-92 octane region.  The analysis balances the added cost
at the refinery for making higher octane gas vs the added economy
higher octane permits through higher compression.  This is the
real reason octane went down along with the lead content.  Lead 
was a practically zero cost octane booster so the balance was
shifted toward higher octane and higher efficiency.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: ERIC WEBB 919-541-7896 <emory!epamail.epa.gov!WEBB.ERIC>
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Subject: Re: 305 Torque
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 93 00:52:25 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Thursday, Jan 07 19:52:22
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>	You can mail order complete 305s with 400 cranks for less than
>$2000.00. Probably less than having all that machine work done and it has
>a garantee.

	Pete

Good point.  You could even buy a complete 383 (400 crank, 5.7" rods) for
about $2300 from RHS.  Then you could sell your 305 to recoup some of your
investment.  Now a 383 is a strokin' small block!  Pulls boats, trailers,
small trees....

Eric
 

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Posted by: ERIC WEBB 919-541-7896 <emory!epamail.epa.gov!WEBB.ERIC>
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 21:46:31 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Monday, Jan 11 16:46:01
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Mark Looper's letter to Car Craft included some commentary regarding
the greenhouse effect.  For those who are interested in this subject
I recommend "The Heated Debate" by Balling.  Knowledge is power.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net


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Posted by: emory!ucsd.edu!btree!hale (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Subject: Re: Chevy Exaust Maniforl Ques.
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 09:08:09 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Tuesday, Jan 05 04:07:57
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The Hotrod List (hotrod@dixie.com) wrote:
: 
: -> manifolds. The type I need just need to drop down an inch or so
: -> before going into the common collector tube. But I need a manifold
: -> with the same overall height so I don't have to cut up my exaust
: -> system.
: 
[...]
:  Your most reasonable solution is to buy an appropriate size piece of
: brake line ($2 or so) at your convenient auto supply joint, insert it
: into the block, and bent as required.  You might be able to use a tubing
: bender and bend the original dipstick tube away enough as well.
:                              

I wish I could use this solution.  The problem is that the outlet of the
exhaust manifold, on the driver side, comes straight down hugging the
block by about 1/4 inch.  This outlet passes *directly* over the hole in
the block where the dipstick tube would normally fit.  No clearance for
even the smallest tube.  <sigh>

: 
: ----------
: Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)

DER

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Don Robinson    (602) 752-6466     Internet:  vlsiphx!donr@asuvax.eas.asu.edu

   ** Any resemblance between the above views and those of my employer, **

----------
Posted by: emory!dolphin.UUCP!donr (Don Robinson)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Subject: Open/Closed Loops
Date: 8 Jan 93 01:10:41 GMT
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Thursday, Jan 07 20:10:37
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          What are the definitions of open and closed loop?  thanks.
          
          Eric

----------
Posted by: ERIC WEBB 919-541-7896 <emory!epamail.epa.gov!WEBB.ERIC>
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Subject: Oxygen sensor
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 93 09:10:15 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Wednesday, Jan 06 04:09:59
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> You must be careful to avoid leaded fuel and silicone.

Does the lead cause instant death or is it a gradual degradation ? If 
it's gradual, is it realistic to compensate for it with before and after 
measurements ?

[The degradation is somewhat gradual but the bad part is the sensor's
failure mode is to first get sluggish.  Really screws up any
closed loop control.  JGD

What other techno-wonderful things can be used to create a closed loop 
system ?

Sounds like an ending to a soap opera. "Tune in last week and miss next 
weeks episode ...."  :-)

Steve.

[There are 3 or 4 methods.  Probably the best is a magnetostrictive
torque sensor on the crankshaft.  This is capable of measuring each
individual cylinder torque pulse.  Nothing is off-the-shelf yet,
though a lot has been published in the literature.  Another method is
to measure combustion chamber pressure.  Kistler makes some water cooled
direct mount piezo pressure sensors that will work and NGK makes a
spark plug containing a pressure tap so more conventional piezo sensors
can be used.  NGK also makes a plug with an optical fiber poking
out through the insulator.  Tuning can be accomplished by watching
the combustion color.  None of these things are as cookbook,
off-the-shelf as using a lambda sensor or UEGO sensor but TEL in
the fuel effectively precludes this.

A very simple solution if there is little restriction on the fuel used
is to use toluene or a gasoline/toluene blend.  Pure toluene has
a research octane rating (RON) of 120 and a motor octane rating (MON)
of 109.  The sensitivity (difference between the numbers, an indication
of the fuel's knock degradation under increasingly severe conditions)
is not too hot but it'll do.  Even better is toluene's blending
octane number of 124. BON is a figure-of-merit that allows one to estimate
the effect of the chemical in a blend by simple ratios.  This high
BON means just a little toluene in gas does a lot.  The familiar
smell of racing fuel is, you guessed it, from toluene.

Another good choice xylene, though it is a bit harder to find.  Xylene
has a RON of 118 and a MON of 115.  Note the low sensitivity.  
BON is also 124.

One place I've found a reliable - if expensive - supply of xylene
is electric motor repair shops.  Typically stocked under the trade
name "Xylol", it is the standard thinner for the baking enamal used
with electric motor windings.  Dayton stocks it as a catlog item
so W.W. Grangers can get it for you.  Last 5 gal can I bought was
about $40 so this is not the source of choice. But if you just 
gotta have that little dose of octane ... :-)  JGD]

----------
Posted by: emory!kcbbs.gen.nz!Steve_Baldwin (Steve Baldwin)
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Subject: Re: iron to aluminum glide conversion
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 10:00:28 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Tuesday, Jan 05 05:00:18
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hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:


>-> Next problem is changing to the new (2 bolts UP) starter.

> Uh.  That brings me to another question.  My '60 Chev has the 235 six
>and three speed manual.  I want to drop in either a 262 or 350
>(depending on which one I finish first).  I know I have to get the front
>mount tabs, but I'd forgotten the starter.  Will there be any problem
>with that?  
Yup

Or does it just bolt to the bellhousing like it did before?
>              

Nope
Seriously, use a starter thats correct for the engine, along with a
flywheel/bellhousing of matching size. For the 350, better make it the 
HD starter, if you want it to start in the summer :-)

JD


>----------
>Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)

----------
Posted by: emory!fraser.sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Subject: Manifold design
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 19:27:37 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Sunday, Jan 10 14:27:33
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Runner length can be approximated through...  plenum size still
is still hard to conceptualize. reinventing the wheel should be avoided
but to really understand ... good exersize.

There is a material that is used to reproduce the actual flow area in 
a cylinder head. Some rubber/plastic that can be pulled out of the
head once it solidifies? To mount the runner to the head, after 
cutting the port to max/gasket size, It would be good to be able to
pull the actual port dimensions out of the head for reproducing the 
curvatures ofthe walls, floor, roof...

Anybody know what is used? any ideas?

The application I would like to apply harmonics to is a destroked
Chrysler 400 (4.4 in. bore), tennatively using the RB conrod.
With the " tuna fish can " shaped stroke area ( short distance for the 
air to travel) and a rod ratio of approx. 2 to 1 , and the 
benefit this gives to piston accelerations, I think this motor might be 
able to spin some pretty high RPM's with 411 cid displacement.

The boneville salt flats ... Id like to go there sometime.

Fuel injection with stacks. Normally aspirated?   The plenum would 
only be used for street analysis/applications.

If you know what the material is that is used for replicating 
runners... 

Mechcanical Engineering is       OKAY

----------
Posted by: emory!ecs.umass.edu!BOZEK
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Subject: Re:  Solid Lifters?
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 93 22:11:04 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Wednesday, Jan 06 17:11:01
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-> If you are the same kind of person who would put a dual-point
-> distributor in instead of some kind of HEI just so you can adjust the
-> points every weekend, then go for it.  IMHO, you should probably look
-> into a roller cam and lifters (Unless you LIKE yanking the valve
-> covers every 2-4 weeks to set the valve lash.)

 Unless you have something drastically wrong, the valve covers probably
don't need to come off more than once a year.  Chrysler has made
gazillions of solid-lifter slant sixes, and for all I know they still
do.

 *Real* roller cams are all solid - nobody grinds anything good for the
usual OEM hydraulic goobers.
                                                        

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Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Subject: Re: Spelling and GNs
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 20:24:42 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Tuesday, Jan 12 15:24:39
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        Reply to:   RE>>Spelling and GNs
          [I had just put in 
          the new heads and valves, a bigger turbo, and a bigger stainless 
          exhaust.  The temperature was about 65, and humidity was low.]

Yours seems to have alot more goodies than mine.  A perfect Turbo day!
            
[......  I nailed an 11.7 and quit while I was ahead.  ]

Wow!  Impressive on street tires!  I think the lag from that big turbo must
have been helping you keep from blowing away the tires on launch.  You must
have been turning some pretty good MPH thru the traps ... I'd guess somewhere
in the 115 mph range?
          
         [.... Launching with the right amount of turbo boost 
          is real important. ..... Slicks should bump the initial boost.  I 
          could only start with 2 psi with street rubber.  What do slicks 
          allow, about 4 psi?

          Eric
            

----------
Posted by: ERIC WEBB 919-541-7896 <emory!epamail.epa.gov!WEBB.ERIC>]
 

Boost at launch is very critical.  Slicks and the bigger rear brake cylinders
allow you to leave with about whatever boost you want.  I like to prestage at 0
lbs and then bump into the staging beams with 3-4 psi.  I  then try to time it
so that I leave on the green with 10 psi and climbing.  I've had the best sixty
foot times with this technique ....

My car still has the stock turbo, stock intercooler, stock valves (but I ported
the heads myself).  Hoping for 11.90s in the spring!

-- Ken Mosher
-- Buick Grand National:   More *POWER*!  More *BOOST*! Urrrr! Urrrr!
          






----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" <emory!imd.sterling.com!KEN_MOSHER>
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Subject: Re: Car Smog or Tree Smog?
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 21:16:12 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Tuesday, Jan 12 16:16:09
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[OK guys, this is the end of this thread unless we can relate it back 
to high performance.  Let's take it to rec.autos where we can all
flame at will :-)  JGD]

> >>Our gas prices are the lowest in
> >>the world, yet we're polluting the air to death.
> 
>   No offense to any of us who find this puzzling, but I seriously wonder
> what logical validity petro prices in other national markets has in
> the pollution debate.
> 
>   I understand the "more expensive gasoline ==> less citizens driving
> ==> less air pollution" line of reasoning (although I feel this is very
> debatable)...

...not to mention that the U.S. has *much* more restrictive emissions
requirements, not only for autos, but for industry.  We may produce
more pollution than (former) East Germany did, for example, but we
produce far less per capita.  Ditto for CFC's, and all kinds of other
troublesome substances.

Citizens of the U.S. may drive more than they "really have to", and
some of our cars may pollute more than they "really have to", but that
by itself says very little about our worldwide share of air pollution.
____________________________________________________________________________
Daniel A. Harling                        (harling@pictel.com)
PictureTel Corp.             Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of
Peabody, MA  01960                   PictureTel Corp. (so there!)

----------
Posted by: emory!roadrunner.pictel.com!harling (Dan Harling)
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Subject: Mo Compression Contd
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 93 00:01:32 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Friday, Jan 08 19:01:29
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[in one of the textbooks I have on fuels, the author discusses this.
He says that the EPA and the oil companies have done an economic analysis
and have determined that the lowest overall cost works out for fuel
in the 89-92 octane region.  The analysis balances the added cost
at the refinery for making higher octane gas vs the added economy
higher octane permits through higher compression.  This is the
real reason octane went down along with the lead content.  Lead 
was a practically zero cost octane booster so the balance was
shifted toward higher octane and higher efficiency.  JGD]

>Hmm. I'm contracted by the EPA, so I can check for the study.  But the
>EPA doesn't care about production costs that the oil producers incur.
>Neither do they care about the cost at the pump.  The concern is air, water, 
>and soil quality.  Legally, the EPA could only involve itself in this study
>to ensure that the oil refineries didn't try to put another toxic additive
>into the gas.
>
>That said, the oil companies would like to keep production costs as low
>as possible, and this is good business sense.  Now, tooling up to add
>large quantities of oxygenates would cost a great deal of initial capital;
>the oil companies would increase prices which would cascade down to the pump.  
>However, there would be a period of time where oil profits would be small, 
>until the consumers helped pay for the higher octane gasoline.  I suspect
>that the oil producers didn't want to suffer lower profits in the short run.  
>Also, I'm sure they would be *somewhat* annoyed if the consumers began 
>complaining about the higher priced fuel to their congresscritters.  I'll
>wager we have 87-92 octane and lower compression engines because the oil 
>manufacturers lobbied Congress hard about their potential loss of short-term 
>profit.
>
>But it may come about anyway.  The new EPA administration is going to 
>be much stricter on air quality.  They could try to legislate a permanent
>30% MTBE ratio.  This reduce the rate of air pollution.  Auto manufacturers
>would find it an inexpensive way to increase power while meeting CAFE
>standards.  The consumers would complain about the increase in gasoline
>prices, but we have to pay the piper.  Our gas prices are the lowest in
>the world, yet we're polluting the air to death.  The only real losers
>that I see are the oil producers, and that is only short-term.  
>  
>Regards,
>Eric Webb

----------
Posted by: ERIC WEBB 919-541-7896 <emory!epamail.epa.gov!WEBB.ERIC>
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Subject: Re: fuel delivery
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 93 00:36:48 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Friday, Jan 08 19:36:45
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> 476 cu in * (8000 / 2) = 1,904,000 cu inches per minute or
> 114,240,000 cu in/ hour.  Converting this to mass using the air
> density conversion factor 0.00129317 grams/cc and 16.3871 cc per cu
> inch, that works out to
> 114E6 cu in * 16.3871 ci/cc * 0.00129317 = 2421170 grams/hr or 5537
> lbs/hr.
> Fuel to go with this at a ratio of 11:1 by mass works out to
> 485.25 lbs/hour.
> 364 gal/hr., 6 gal/min
>

Didn't you forget to include the conversion from lbs to gal?  I get:
485.25 lbs gas/hour * 1 gal water/8.337 lb water * [1 lb water/gal water /
.75 lb gas/gal gas] = 77.6 gal gas/hr = 1.3 gal gas/min

[I know the units look funny the way Iincluded the specific gravity,
but I believe the result is correct.]

Been reading this list for a month now, and thought it time to chip in
my $0.02 worth.

Carl Ijames     ijames@helix.nih.gov

[So I did.  Sorry about that.  See why I ask you to check my math? :-)
That's why I do spreadsheets.  Only have to get the math right once. JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!helix.nih.gov!ijames
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Subject: Re: 215 cid Olds V8 question
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 93 22:41:06 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Friday, Jan 08 17:41:03
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Since this and other motors are aluminum, do standard engine
enamels hold up well?

----------
Posted by: emory!ecs.umass.edu!BOZEK
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Subject: Re: Oxygen sensor
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 20:37:02 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Thursday, Jan 07 15:36:58
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        Reply to:   RE>Oxygen sensor
Bob Hale writes:
( text deleted)
> You must be careful to avoid leaded fuel and silicone.  Lead or
> silicone will destroy the sensor and render it useless.  Make sure
> that any RTV used in the engine or around the sensor is rated as
> sensor-safe.
 
Leif Olsson writes:

[I asked about this before Christmas and got the answer that leaded fuel
will damage the sensor. My next question is how long the sensor will survive
if I use leaded fuel. Will I be able to tune an engine once, several engines,
or non at all?

I prefere to use leaded fuel since I have old heads without hardened seats.

Leif]

In my case, I find that when I use leaded racing gas in my Grand National, the
gets sluggish (and eventually codes) after about 15-20 1/4 mile passes coupled
with maybe 400-500 miles of street driving.  For me this equates to about a
month and a half in the summer (4-5 trips to the strip, some street trolling,
etc.)  If I drive to the track on unleaded, switch to leaded for the day,
switch back to unleaded for the trip home and only put leaded in when I need to
do some serious street driving ;^) ... the sensor lasts much longer.  I think
that the unleaded might help clear out some of the junk ... ???

BTW, the O2 sensor was coding just before I put the car away for the winter.  I
pulled it and it was the prettiest shiny metallic you've ever seen.  Looked
like it had been plated ... could this be lead?  This sensor had seen alot more
street driving than most of my previous ones.

Ken Mosher
Buick Grand National:  Honest officer, it's just a little V6 ....


----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" <emory!imd.sterling.com!Ken_Mosher>
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod