HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 19:52:55 EDT
From: ARIJIT MAHALANABIS <AXM128@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Are IAs close-minded ? (Re: Parental authority
Distribution: na
 <1992Oct1.041708.24655@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
 <1992Oct2.220955.16165@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>
 <1992Oct7.232001.14758@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>

Well, it's been a while since I've posted anything on any USENET forum.
But after reading Mr. Vij's analysis of Indian culture, I felt I had
to add my two cents worth. Mr. Vij, Indian culture does not consist of
Ram Janmabhoomi, Caste problems and partition riots. These are social
problems that exist in India. Indeed, if you look at any nation as old
as India, it is a good bet that there are some sort of social tensions
within it. However, we cannot identify India's culture with its social
tensions.

Hence, your analysis of Indian culture is flawed. And as much as I'm
pained to agree with Mr. Vijayvargia, your sample is definitely not
representative of the huge (I emphasize huge) expatriate Indian population
in this country or continent.

Arijit.
From: mgundeko@pcserver2.Naitc.Com (Murthy Gundekota)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Is the term "desi" appropriate?
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:38:08 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Somewhere near Chicago

In article <1992Oct8.225255.24926@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>I don't think I appreciate your Hindi bashing, particularly on this newsgroup.
>It happens to be mother tongue of some of us including myself.
>
>Alok

Very well. Then these are the options:

*Roll back in time when Hindi hieroglyphics were around and there was no
other language in India
*Look around and see if there are any people
*If there are none, then look for traces of evolution where baboons are just 
 beginning to say "hai hai"
*Tell them, that Hindi, from then on, is their "species" language
*Wait (as long as you want) to observe all baboons transform into
birds and fishes, even ardvarks, but none into human.

Of course, I am not endearing myself to all when I say this, much less
you, for I have no such desire or reason. However, it tickles my funny
bone when I see someone with no sense of humor. Of course, parental
types are meant for disciplining, chastising, and putting people in
line...and Bill Cosby made a career out of it.

:-)

Murthy

  
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal)
Subject: Re: Sci-Fi and Indians
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 04:55:24 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.174922.23700@ctp.com> pghol@ctp.com (Preeti Anissa Gholap) writes:
>In one of my favorite trilogies, Clarke's "2001: A Space Odessey"
>the computer scientist who built HAL and SAL is South Indian...
>
>The book even mentions the fact that both the computers initially
>had Indian accents, since their speech capabilities
>had been programmed by the Indian scientist (I forget his name -
>its been a while since I read the books)

I saw the movie 2010 just a few days back. The name is Dr. Chandra. 
And the man playing the role was definetely not a Desi. 

regards,
--   
   ______ ______ ______ ______ __  |\/\/\/|
    ____/  __  /  __  /  __  /  /  |  \  /|   LIFE'S COMPLEX - IT HAS 
   / __   /   /  /   /  /   /  /   | (o)(o)   REAL & IMAGINARY PARTS  
  /   /  /   /   ___/  __  /  /    C      _) 
_____/ _____/ __/   __/ __/ ______/ | \___|  
E-mail - gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu       |   /   All Std. Disclaimers apply.
From: samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Long hair and closemindedness (Was looking for attention?)
Date: 12 Oct 92 15:16:11 GMT
Reply-To: samaddar@siemens.com
Distribution: na

c150-bt@po.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij) writes:

>However, what irks me is that members of the II generation generally approach
>the question from the negative standpoint: Why do you _have_ to do this evil, 
>rather than Why do you do this action?  In other words, the implicit
>assumption is that growing long hair, getting a stylish haircut, going dancing,
>riding a motorcycle, dating, ad infinitum ... is an EVIL, and you are being
>stubborn in not trying to FULFILL YOUR INFANTILE NEED FOR ATTENTION through
>some means which is MORE SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE.

>Look, folks, it's just not that big a deal at Berkeley.  Same with
>earrings: neither long hair nor earrings are exactly "punk" or "deviant"
>at UC Berkeley.  They are quite common.

>Why?  Because Berkeley, along with most universities in general, is a much
>more tolerant and diverse place than the world at large.

Your relishing to shock your old friends at the garba dance is probably the
reason I found most plausible. Though the people you want to shock most is
probably your parents and rest of family. You are waiting for some II (
starting with your parents) to make some comments about your long hair so
that you can promptly pronounce them conservative and always doing things
SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE. Well, I believe that you young IA turks aren't really
doing anything socially UNACCEPTABLE either. As you mentioned, keeping long
hairs is quite acceptable in berkeley. I brought in wearing cross-gender
dresses because I wanted to test whether you (a general "you") would try
shocking your american friends as well because I guess guys wearing women's
dresses is socially unacceptable even in berkeley.

So, let me modify my earlier claim that some guys wear long hair etc.
to get -ve attention. Actually, the -ve attention they get is from their
parents (and other II) and hence is actually +ve attention :-)

- Sumitro

P.S. I'm not "viscerally" against long hair. Just trying to understand
     motives. At worst, it is a harmless rebellion against II parents.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: msanghvi@cs.ulowell.edu (Mehul Sanghvi)
Subject: Re: Moving this newsgroup to soc.culture hierarchy
Reply-To: msanghvi@cs.ulowell.edu
Organization: UMass-Lowell Comp. Sci. Dept.
	<1992Oct13.155754.15820@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 08:13:53 GMT


In article <1992Oct13.155754.15820@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:

   In article <MSANGHVI.92Oct12213540@cs.ulowell.edu>, msanghvi@cs.ulowell.edu (Mehul Sanghvi) writes:
   > 
   >    I would really like to see a couple of women being part of the team.
   >    I am not sure if Mehul is a man or woman :-) (Mehul, no offense meant).
   > 
   > How many women do you know who would have a nickname "raja lakhan" ?  anyways
   > no offense was taken. I am a full-blooded guy definately

   Sorry for the confusion. I think it was 'Mehul' that confused me.
   FYI, Mehul could be a name of woman in Hindi-land.

   Alok

I guess you learn something new everyday. This though is new to me. In my
entire (almost) 23 years I have never come across a female named Mehul. And I
grew up in Hindi-land (if you count Bombay as Hindi-land. I dont. Bombay is a
world unto itself )


increase the peace
--
===============================================================================
Mehul "raja lakhan" Sanghvi        |  UMass-Lowell Dept. of Computer Science
Inet: msanghvi@cs.ulowell.edu      |  SnailNet: 754 Aiken St. #11
UUCP: ...!harvard!ulowell!msanghvi |            Lowell, MA 01850-1804
BITNET: msanghvi%cs.ulowell.edu@{cunyvm.cuny, mitvma.mit, talcott.harvard}.edu

WHERE CAN THE MATTER BE

	Oh, dear, where can the matter be
	When it's converted to energy?
	There is a slight loss of parity.
	Johnny's so long at the fair.
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: looking for attention?? (was Re: Are IAs close-minded ?)
Date: 12 Oct 92 22:05:26 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Oct12.023207.28417@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, c150-bt@po.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij) writes:
> 
> That's because being female is looked down upon, while being male is to
> be desired in America.
> 
I don't think that is right. I don't think people look down on females
in America. They might look up though :)

> Manish

Alok
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: mgundeko@ad-6.Naitc.Com (Murthy Gundekota)
Subject: Re: Ten Best Reasons to Date Indian (Re:To marry (Indian) or not ?
Organization: Somewhere near Chicago
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 19:28:17 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.150854.16273@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.172151.21054@midway.uchicago.edu>, moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne) writes:
>> >4) They know good Indian cooking !
>> 
>> So do I.  Now, if you can teach me how to make pierogi (polish) or
>> falafel (middle eastern), I might be impressed. :-)
>>  
>
>Come on down ! Wanna learn how to make love too ?

Right there goes, the very first lesson in making love! But, hey, how
does knowledge about Pierogi or Falafel help? If a guy knows how to
cook fish, and still doesn't know that certain fish have poison in
their ovaries or liver, then you had it big time. So don't let a guy
cook in your oven until you're reasonably sure  :-)

>> >6) They are more likely to be 'loyal'
>> 
>> Right.  And if they aren't, what recourse does a respectable wife
>> have?  Tell her mother, who tells her to endure?  (Yes, things are
>> changing, but this sort of situation still comes up).

A respectable wife, if intelligent, has several recourses. 

>> And who says women want stability?  And if they are less likely to
>> divorce, are they more likely to fight a divorce if the wife wants
>> one?  What if he drinks or beats the kids?

What if a woman aborts and dumps her kids along with garbage? There is
no end to this squeamishness. However, I recommend not having kids
until you are sure the kids are safe around the hubby.

>> No, just cricket.  (Some friends of mine and I once cooked lunch for
>> some Indian males one of us knew....sambar, idli, etc - which take
>> hours to make.  They came, they ate, they left to play cricket.  Not
>> even a thank you.  And help washing the dishes?  Yeah, right.)

At least they are taking time out on the field. Give them some credit.
As for sambar-idli, did anyone say they liked it? Probably, they are
out there playing to get it out of their system :-)

>> Okay, I'll grant you this one.  Given no reasons to the contrary, we
>> might as well help out the poor souls. :-) :-) :-)

That's what all the women with pets in my neighborhood said before
they became sodomists :-)


Murthy

Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: pghol@ctp.com (Preeti Anissa Gholap)
Subject: Re: Sci-Fi and Indians
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:49:22 GMT
Organization: Cambridge Technology Partners

In one of my favorite trilogies, Clarke's "2001: A Space Odessey"
the computer scientist who built HAL and SAL is South Indian...
however, when the movie was made, they gave the role to a
white American man, much to my disappointment! 
Does any one know why?

The book even mentions the fact that both the computers initially
had Indian accents, since their speech capabilities
had been programmed by the Indian scientist (I forget his name -
its been a while since I read the books)

Unrelated to sci-fi, but since were talking about Indians in the 
media, all you guys ;) should check out the latest issue of
"Cosmopolitan" -- the (very gorgeous) model on the cover,
Yasmeen Ghauri,is Canadian-Indian. 
 
Interestingly, she says that her ethnic looks were not appreciated
in Canada, (I think she's part Indian, part German)
but that the U.S. can't get enough of her !

-- Preeti 
pghol@ctp.com
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,soc.culture.asian.american
From: tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav)
Subject: Prejudice and ignorance... how to solve it?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 17:45:15 GMT

==================================

 moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne) writes:
] The answer to racial prejudice and ignorance is not segregration, but
] integration.  Involve yourself in the community at large, and teach as
] many people as you can the best parts of your heritage. 

  alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) follows up:
> Agreed ! Do you know the best parts of your heritage ? 

 I disagree. And I don't care what my heritage is. And I don't care what 
 anybody else's heritage is.
 I am the beginning and I am the end. 
 All heritage, like history, is bunk - to paraphrase Henry Ford. 
 For our sights should not be focussed to the past.
 Our sights should be focussed to the future. We should not become
 hallway of mirrors, reflecting the forefathers. But rather, think
 what is right, what is better, what is excellence - and then evolve.
 We are the world. The world is us. 
 Do the right thing because it is the right thing do.

 I disagree with above answer to racial prejudice and ignorance.
 (1) Because the answer confers the responsibility of education to the victim
     of prejudice. The responsibility of education, always, lies with the 
     ignorant. Before you can "teach," there must be some who seek to "learn."
     If someone looks at you with jaundiced eye, then making yourself 
     cleaner wouldn't change his or her perception of you. The jaundice
     is with him or her. And it is his or her problem, not yours.
 (2) Because the cause of prejudice is not segregation alone. Both of 
     these - prejudice and segregration - go together. To solve any problem
     in a lasting way, one needs to understand True Causes. But, in this
     case, we are solving a wrong problem. So, I skip going into True Causes. 
 (3) Because knowledge of heritage doesn't help anybody
     know "you." Unless of course, if you are nothing but the heritage.

 The right problem to address is to ask ourselves: 
 What do I want? Is it "not to be prejudiced" - that I seek.
                 Or is it "to be respected for who I am" - that I seek.
 These problems are different.

 The later, IMHO, is the right problem. To be respected, I think one needs
 to deserve respect; to deserve respect one needs to achieve/accomplish
 respectful deeds; Therefore, perform, be just, be fair, be in the pursuit of
 truth and perfection, be who you are - and the world will respect you. 
 Because you are what you practice; and not what you speak and preach.
 Oh yes, the world has its share of jerks and criminals and fundamentalists
 and .... But then, does one need to be respected by them?

 Respect, it ain't outside of you.

T.Y.
----
tyadav@athena.mit.edu

ps: So what is our heritage, anyway?
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne)
Subject: Re: To Marry (Indian) or Not?
Reply-To: moh2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:00:42 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.193140.21130@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.173443.1763@ctp.com>, pghol@ctp.com (Preeti Anissa Gholap
>
>Look at the Jewish for example. They always try to marry
>a Jewish person. Jews as a community faced tremendous discrimination
>in the western world and such discrimination brought them together.
>They have a sense of community. They want to grow together or die
>together. 

But you have to acknowledge the fact that one of the reasons they
faced such discrimination was *because* they were such an insular
community.  People would look at their closeness and be worried that
they would choose "their own kind" before their friends and
neighbors...and thus the Jews were never really trusted.  This isn't
the only reason the Jewish people were persecuted but it was certainly
one of them.

The answer to racial prejudice and ignorance is not segregration, but
integration.  Involve yourself in the community at large, and teach as
many people as you can the best parts of your heritage.

>Look at the Chinese. Chinese stick together with chinese and 
>promote each other. Chinese women and men would often marry 
>among themselves too. Why ? They too feel persecuted as a 
>community in the western world.

Much like the Indians, the Chinese have a very paternalistic,
traditional culture, and thus it has taken much longer for them to
begin to integrate with American society than most immigrants.  It is
happening however.

I highly recommend Amy Tan's two novels on growing up
Chinese-American, _The Joy Luck Club_ and _The Kitchen God's Wife_.  I
found the first one especially fascinating as it dealt with the
differences between four mothers and their daughters, and the choices
made by each of them.

>In difficult times, it is your own community that you can trust more.
>In my own experience, I have found Indians being helpful in difficult
>times, not the Americans - partly because Indians understand the 
>difficulty easily compared to an American who is relatively ignorant 
>about Indians, and partly because there is a sense of being 
>co-miserables ...
>
But in my experience, it has always been Americans who I turn to for
help, and it has always been freely given.  Not to say that I couldn't
turn to Indians, or that they wouldn't be helpful....just that
Americans can be too.  Besides, if Americans are relatively ignorant
about Indians, then isn't it our job to educate them, to make life
easier for our children and spread understanding throughout the world?

>Alok

 - Amirthi




-- 
The autumn leaves are falling like rain.
Although my neighbors are all barbarians,
And you, you are a thousand miles away,
There are always two cups at my table.		 - A T'ang Dynasty poem
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Long hair and closemindedness (Was looking for attention?)
Date: 13 Oct 92 15:02:32 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Oct13.022444.16631@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, c150-bt@po.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij) writes:
> 
> I doubt that one could be exiled to the forest for any length of time and not
> find a way to cut one's hair.  Without a crude knife, you could not eat

May be Guru Nanak did not cut his hair in the forest because it was simply
'too much of an hassle'. 

Besides there was hardly anyone around. So who cares ...

> >Incidentally he also kept a knife, a comb, a sword and a bracelet. 
> >Thus started the tradition in Sikhism of keeping these items and growing 
> >hairs after the founder of the religion.
> 
> Kesh, kanga, kachha, kara, kirpaan.  (No sword.)
> hair  comb   shorts  bracelet  dagger
> 
By sword I meant the dagger or kirpaan.
Just didn't get that word in mind while I was writing that article.

I thought it was knife and not the kachha . Thanks for correcting me.

> 
> >Manish's growing hair appears to be a protest against conservatism by 
> >and large. Perhaps a protest against 'Reagan-Bush-Quayle' era as well :-)
> 
> Notwithstanding the smilie, I'll say it one more time: I have it because
> I like it.  No protest involved.  The more you double-guess the motives,
> the more I'll double-up my replies.
> 

Fine. WE ACCEPT YOUR EXPLANATION. Manish likes long hairs. Period.
Happy now ?

> By the way, in a later message you imply I'm walking away from being
> Indian-American.  Well, any time you want pointers on either Indian or
> American culture, you know who you can come to to set you straight.  :-)

Like Sikhs grow hairs as sign of virility  ...

> Manish

Alok
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: raghavan@wk28.nas.nasa.gov (Venkatraman Raghavan)
Subject: Choosing a name for this group
Organization: -
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 17:55:16 GMT

pghol@ctp.com (Preeti Anissa Gholap) writes:

   >soc.culture.desi.american

When Alok conducted a straw poll regarding the groupname issue,
I remember seeing 'soc.culture.indo.american' in that list. That
might come close the above one, if the term 'desi' makes anyobody
uncomfortable.

   >The only problem i see with this name is that it seems to exclude
   >"desi's" outside the U.S. as does the present name. 
   >Maybe soc.culture.desi.world ?

Similar one is s.c.expatriate.indian

   >-- Preeti pghol@ctp.com

Another suggestion:  The last time a poll was taken regarding names,
readers were asked to choose a name from a given list. There was
no place to vote against any name. May be this time we can ask
people to give their preference from first place all the way to 
the last place. (Similar to AP/UPI college football polls).

Raghavan
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: chakrsa@eng.auburn.edu (Sanjoy  Chakraborty)
Subject: Re: MCI commercials
Reply-To: chakrsa@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 05:47:32 GMT

In article 25248@cs.cornell.edu, soam@cs.cornell.edu (Soam Acharya) writes:
>c150-bt@po.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij) writes ( in article 
><1992Oct7.233504.15517@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> ) sez:
>
>	If you want to see stereotypical, watch THE PARTY (Peter Sellers) or
>	SHORT CIRCUIT (something Fisher).
>
>Or try certain David Lee Roth videos ( can't remember the songs exactly - 
>listening to that screeching, pretentious, spandex-clad bozo is not my idea of a
>good time ).  
		........etc etc etc

I agree, David Lee Roth does turn out a lot of crap nowadays. But he did give 
Van Halen a 'jump' in the old days :-)  Sadly, this is also true for a lot of 
others. 

BTW, this has nothing really to do with the discussion or the newsgroup. So
bear with me ...

Peace out,

sanjoy
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian