HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: radams@BNR.CA (Rodney Adams)
Subject: Re: t// t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Reply-To: "Rodney Adams" <RADAMS@BNR.CA>
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ltd.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:53:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.015836.17520@ncsu.edu>, tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
|> 
|> mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas) writes:
|> |> In article <1992Sep29.222847.11002@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
|> |> >
|> |> >"Eric":
|> |> >
|> |> >You're not more intelligent; you simply scored higher on a test
|> |> >whose validity is questionable.

In an earlier post, you implied that talk.philosophy.misc would be an 
appropriate forum for your posts.  Are you not aware that logic is an 
important part of philosophy?  If you think your above statement is logically
valid, you should SERIOUSLY consider taking a course in logic.  If you do
research for an AI lab, as your .signature would imply, logic should also
prove a valuable skill to acquire.
 
|> |> 
|> |> Just because he scored high on a test, that doesn't mean he *isn't* more
|> |> intelligent.
|> 
|> "John":
|> 
|> True.  However, it is important to note that high IQ is a 
|> necessary but *not sufficient* condition for high achievement, 
|> while low IQ virtually assures failure at high academic and 
|> occupational levels.
|> 

From Webster's:

IQ (intelligence quotient) - "a number used to express the apparent relative
    intelligence of a person determined by dividing his mental age as reported
    on a standardized test by his chronological age and multiplying by 100."
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Now, if IQ, as you assert, shows the potential for achievement (those with
high IQ have the potential to succeed; those with low IQ do not), then why
do you also insist that the validity of standardized tests is so questionable?

Generally, I notice your inconsistencies among multiple posts, but here we
can see one in a single post.  How can you expect to influence anyone if your
arguments are so full of holes and contradictions?

Scott, I do not wish to stifle your (non-flaming) opinions.  Rather, I ask you 
to think about what you really believe and what you wish others to believe.  
Then, when you have framed a consistent and logical argument for your beliefs, 
present it here for us to discuss.  Through the ensuing debate, you should 
either be able to strengthen your arguments, thus increasing your credibility 
and persuasiveness, or, as is happening now, you will find that your beliefs 
are without foundation.

|> --
|> Scott Tai -- tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
|> NCSU Artificial Intelligence Lab
|> Centennial Campus
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rodney G. Adams
The opinions expressed above are not necessarily those of my employer.
As if you didn't already know that....
"Much I marvelled this ungainly fowl to hear discourse so plainly,
Though his answer little meaning, little relevancy bore...." - Edgar Allen Poe
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Whatever
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 10:37:01 GMT

Maastricht, yes; though I'd like to see the end of the formation of
economic blocs, versus the "one world" concept.
Getting married doesn't mean losing your personality.

Regarding topics: I'd rather see BLOOD here, flowing, than the endless
discussion of what is appropriate here.
Mensans ARE appropriate here; and that's all I say about conditioning
the contents or the participants.

I am another *flame* target, though I'm actually quite a nice person.

So, let's change voice:

"

Yeh so what else is there to discuss. I was in Norway in late Winter,
what a great place, what a great people. I don't want to see them subsumed,
neither do they (they have a complex about it.) Maastricht won't do that,
quickly anyway. Over the course of time cultures will die (pure-blood ones.)
My friend Jens, I said, I put you in the role of the Norwegian Group Soul,
do I have your permission to raid the Norwegian genetic pool for a wife,
he said, yes, sure. But that's his death sentence on the Norwegians . . .
ironic. Intermarriage will carry them all off into being mixed-bloods -
hope I carry on the culture with my Norwegian wife into our children that
they will know what there was to being a Norwegian, at the same time they
define themselves into the future. What a beautiful people . . .

Not holding my breath tho, all cultures are fascinating.

Flaming, is better than boring. I used to be rabid on puzzles but not anymore,
no patience, other things to do. Yea, prove you're intelligent. Nah, what for.
Rather do something IN the world, than prove I could if I wanted to.

Mensa no political affiliations? Okay. All bozos here, just smart ones.
This is fine - it makes life happier. Being stupid at N * 100 IQ means
chunking down (analysis of) life experience at this greater rate. Worst
bunch of fascists I ever saw in Gainesville Mensa in 1973 (3 of them.)
Yea so what? The most educated guy there spoke only of his hobby of doing
pottery. Doug Coleman and I played Jetan (Edgar Rice Burroughs - anyone know
the rules? I have recorded games from 1973 I claim are the "first" such
recorded Jetan games.)

"

Enough random weird stuff?
Next, anyone?

The Chameleon - (the universal archetypal machine -)
-ecsd
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: Magik
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:18:15 GMT

jswthomp@milton.u.washington.edu (James Thompson) writes:
>I deeply believe that magic should always be spelled without a 'k'.
>
>Jim

I second. "Magic" should be called 'parlor magic'; "Magick", which is
a subject as broad and deep as religion, should have the rights to "Magic".
-ecsd
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: t// t// REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY - 09/28/92
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 11:15:52 GMT

tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>.....................................  What kind of asshole do you
>have to be to do that?
>
>And tell me something, because I am trying to understand your pathological 
>outburst of hate toward a poster that did not even address his or her rather 
>mild article toward you:  what is troubling you?
>

Neither of you gets any marks for gentility.
Fuck you and flamewars in the damn net - goes for Steiner too.
Is there ONE group where this shit will look at itself for being shit?

So I'm doing it myself. Hah! I know.

Flame me then: Venus/Pisces/12 opposite Jupiter=Pluto/Leo/6 says:
be nice to me and we'll be nice to each other; or else I'll KILL you.

This is Mensa, Tai; alt.astrology has hecklers, I'm not surprised mensa
does too. Which of you and Steiner is more a self-blind child, is what
I'd like to know. If you want to have that contest, take it to alt.flame.

*I* do not use killfiles, and I don't threaten to (yet - if I do, it
will be on soc.bi - but I will NOT put anyone in a killfile.)
Do you want to hear "Put Tai & Steiner in your killfile?"

Now I see why people think you're obnoxious. You know, if you have valid
points to make, you can make them without responding-in-kind to flames.
It will show you to be better-thought than the flamers, yes? Isn't it about
maturing and learning how to put the ego in your service? I let mine out
on a leash - silly splendid thing that it is - but *I* own it, it does *not*
own me.

*I* am the primal archetype of hypocrite; but someone has to stand as the
pure example of that energy. Talk to your animal for a while and learn
some new tricks.

Go look up "non-zero-sum game".

-ecsd

p.s. - yes, it's a leftover from the "intelligent? Pfui" letter.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Subject: The Ecphorizer
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 18:39:42 GMT

The Ecphorizer is a Mensa magazine of literature and ideas, published by
Region 8.  It's objective is to provide a medium for Mensa members and 
non-members to share ideas, stories, and opinion.  It was founded about
ten years ago.  

The Ecphorizer is looking for people who are interested in working on 
production of the magazine, especially people with experience in PageMaker.

We are also looking for someone who would be interested in taking over
as editor, or in sharing some of the responsibilities as co-editor.

Sample issues of The Ecphorizer (which will tell you what the word means)
cost $2.00.  A subscription (6 issues) costs $7.50.  The Ecphorizer does
not receive any financial support from American Mensa. 


---
Michael J. Eager, editor	Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
The Ecphorizer			(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Russell's Paradox
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:20:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewse.1992Sep29.202046.27405
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Sep29.072556.20454@tfs.com> ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>quam@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (David Quam) writes:
>>Answer:  The original premises are false.
>>         There cannot exist such a barber.
>
>Not within the particular system of axioms we're accustomed to.
>There is no answer at *this* level, because the question is *apparently*
>well-defined.
>
>Cheers and glad tidings to the avid student who follows up on my suggestion
>to do a little reading in comparative set theories, who will come back with
>a concise explanation of a very *nontrivial* problem. People evoked by this
>thread - Russell, Church, Rosser, Kleene, Godel, others - were decidedly not
>lightweights.


Shame, Eric.  It may be nontrivial in an aspect of what the reader of
the problem assumes, not necessarily because it is a complex problem.

The fact that "non-lightweights" have pondered an aspect of the problem
carries no weight in this.

Good post on society, BTW.

GMS
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Geneticism
Date: 6 Oct 92 22:57:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewse.1992Oct6.225721.10088
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Oct6.180114.17594@seanews.akita.com> billmcc@seanews.akita.com (Bill McCormick) writes:
>In article <1992Oct5.143437.26233@ncsu.edu> not@ailab.ncsu.edu (N O Tai) writes:
>> [lots of good stuff deleted]
>>
>>Whereas the reaction of a reasonable person to homosex might be, "oh, that's 
>>interesting", as in watching two women if the watcher is hetero; or two men, 
>>if the watcher is hetero, it might be, "wheee, then there's more women for 
>>me", instead you present us with your dark shit and ask us to tolerate your 
>>intolerance. Nothing doing.
>
>Very nicely put.  It's amazing how much hypocrisy shows up when
>people discuss homosexuality.
>
>Is it possible?  I actually agree 100% with something "Tai" writes?  Maybe
>I've been away too long.

Isn't that one of the signs of approaching Armageddon or Ragnarok or
somesuch?

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Cover of the Bulletin
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:00:53 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <1992Oct5.205618.5948@caeco.mentorg.com>,
randall@riffraff.slc.mentorg.com (Randall S. Krebs) wrote:
> 
> Is there any point to the pictures that appear on the cover of the
> Mensa Bulletin?  I'm a relative newbie.  I've spent several minutes
> attempting to uncover the relevance of the cover picture to any one
> of the articles in the July/August, September, and the October issue.
> 
> What am I missing?

Nothing; they are art for the sake of art.  They are just plain pretty.
Pretty doesn't need an excuse, does it?

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Now that I have a reader that can do .sigs, I can't think of a witty |
|one to put here, so I won't.  All normal disclaimers apply.          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: Magik <== 'ck'
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 10:08:27 GMT

mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
> ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>> For feel. I'm very visual, and calling myself a "magickian" violates my
>> parsing rules for phonetics. The way you say is the way it is now.
>> I'm lazy. The extra 'k' is (to me) spurious, and more work, and -damn -
>> it just *feels* wrong.
>
>As a magician (the entertainment kind), I feel the same way.

Fine. let's share 'magic', and the confused can go to hell.
I'll keep a few candles lit for them on their way down.

Where's Claris? You should come to see one of our Gnostic masses.
It involves a naked female, if that's any inducement.
Sometime the priest (Lew or Michael, usually) has nothing on under his
robe either, but the robe is mandated - tsk.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: brekshyn@shearson.com (Bohdan Rekshynskyj)
Subject: FAQ
Reply-To: brekshyn@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:00:48 GMT

Greetings,

   Is there a FAQ?  Thanks.


					Bohdan




=====================================================================
 
Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj
 
Consultant                     
 
Compuserve:  72576,1754


                              
All promulgations are my own.  No corporate entity has authorization
to represent me.
 
Imprimatur.						Nihil obstat.
 
=====================================================================


Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Geneticism
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:58:29 GMT

In article <mike_steiner-061092103933@192.35.50.131> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
>In article <1992Oct05.171136.4558@bnr.ca>,
>radams@crchh404.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Rodney Adams) wrote:
>
>> Second, I realized after I had posted the article that "defect" was perhaps
>> more "loaded" of a word than I had intended.  "Abnormality" would have been
>> more appropriate.  However, it could be considered a defect in the sense that
>> homosexuals are inclined to forbear reproduction, thus preventing society 
>> from the genetic benefits that would accrue from the other traits these 
>> individuals might have.
>
>Do you also consider celibates to be abnormal or defective?

Maybe.  If it's not by choice.

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: sonic@cray.com (Curtis L. Swanson)
Subject: Re: T// Re: T% Thought for the Day
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:34:48 CDT

Ummmm,  "somebody" bothered to write the following:

*gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
*
*[...]
*|> That's me all over.
*[...] 
*|> That's okay.
*[...]
*|> Yeah, me again.
*[...]
*|> Structure of this sentence is a bit unclear.  
*[...]
*|> Well, I like to pass tests.  Guess you got me there.
*
*Thank you for that informative post.  I really learned a lot.

Well, had you included your own post, you would have the questions he was
answering.

*|> BTW, why is my first name in quotes at the top?  Do you suspect me
*|> of using an alias?  That I'm not real?  That I'm a sham?  Huh?  HUH?!
*
*No, "Gilbert", we believe you're real.  Sure we do :)
*
*[ObNonFlameContent: It is interesting that in our society husbands and 
*wives are at least as much alike in IQ as brothers and sisters.  If men 
*and women picked their mates strictly at random, as by a lottery, spouses 
*would differ by an average of 18 IQ points.  But in fact men and women
*choose one another partly for intelligence, and so spouses differ by
*only 10 or 11 points in IQ.]
*

What is the point or relavence of the last paragraph?  Are  you trying to 
say that you're GMS's wife???

*
*--
*Scott Tai -- tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
[Bogus address deleted]


***  Curt Swanson  ***  sonic@romulus.cray.com  ***  IOTTMCO  *********
HOME:n - That mythical place where you can go and relax.......
I'd rather be in a coma.........
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: seb@draper.com (Steve Bacher)
Subject: Test-Takers Anonymous
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 03:51:38 GMT

tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:

>People whose
>intelligence is expressed in other ways that the ability to pass tests
>need not apply -- even if accepted, 

But don't people who are skilled at test-taking and failures in all other
endeavors in need of a support group too?  You wouldn't deny those folks
an outlet for their suffering, would you?

 - seb
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Subject: t// Re: t-- Re: t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Originator: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 03:03:26 GMT


ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:

|> I invited Tai to come forward to explain himself - there's no reason why he
|> can't talk about himself and his conditions. This will give us a clearer
|> picture of who he is, and how we might come to treat him. How old is he?
|> What does he do? Is he in school? Why is he angry with standardized tests?
|> What is his race and culture? Is he even a he? Is Dr. Tai really his father?
|> We don't know these things, and it would help.

Hey, maybe you could try to figure out these things using astrological
methods :)  I'm totally serious; think about it.

|> What if by chance, Tai is a great deal younger than he appears to be?

Stranger things have happened... :)

--
Scott Tai -- tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: randall@riffraff.slc.mentorg.com (Randall S. Krebs)
Subject: Cover of the Bulletin
Reply-To: randall_krebs@mentorg.com
Organization: Mentor Graphics Corp.,  Murray, Utah
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:56:18 GMT

Is there any point to the pictures that appear on the cover of the
Mensa Bulletin?  I'm a relative newbie.  I've spent several minutes
attempting to uncover the relevance of the cover picture to any one
of the articles in the July/August, September, and the October issue.

What am I missing?

randall.
-- 
   Randall S. Krebs             | "My ultimate nightmare?  Oh, that's an
   (randall_krebs@mentorg.com)  |  easy one!  The McLaughlin group as dinner
   Mentor Graphics Corp.        |  guests."
   Murray, Utah	                |  
Disclaimer:  Mentor Graphics pays me for what I do, not for what I say.
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Geneticism
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:44:27 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <1992Oct05.171136.4558@bnr.ca>,
radams@crchh404.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Rodney Adams) wrote:

> Second, I realized after I had posted the article that "defect" was perhaps
> more "loaded" of a word than I had intended.  "Abnormality" would have been
> more appropriate.  However, it could be considered a defect in the sense that
> homosexuals are inclined to forbear reproduction, thus preventing society 
> from the genetic benefits that would accrue from the other traits these 
> individuals might have.

Do you also consider celibates to be abnormal or defective?

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Now that I have a reader that can do .sigs, I can't think of a witty |
|one to put here, so I won't.  All normal disclaimers apply.          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Meaning of Intelligence
Date: 2 Oct 92 23:52:48 GMT

In article <1992Oct02.161031.15798@bnr.ca>, radams@BNR.CA (Rodney Adams) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Jul15.003110.17117@ncsu.edu>, tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai) wri
> tes:
> |>
> |> MENSA's entrance qualifications depend directly on your scores from IQ
> |> tests.  *Someone* in MENSA must have the idea that intelligence and
> |> scores on standardized tests are somehow highly correlated.  If you
> |> only had that piece of information about a person, how could you say
> |> with any assurance that he or she could *act* like an "intelligent
> |> person"?  (You can't.)
> 
> In article <1992Oct2.001731.19087@ncsu.edu>, mai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Mai Tai) writes:
> |> 
> |> Mensa's entrance qualifications depend directly on your scores from IQ
> |> tests.  *Someone* in Mensa must have the idea that intelligence and
> |> scores on standardized tests are somehow highly correlated.  If you
> |> only had that piece of information about a person, how could you say
> |> with any assurance that he or she could *act* like an "intelligent
> |> person"?  (You can't.)
> 
> Need I say more?

Do you mean that you actually clutter up your disks with his garbage?
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: yoo@netcom.com (Young-Kyu Yoo)
Subject: Re: Doubters Of Astrology
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 01:23:19 GMT

Matt Crawford writes:

>Young-Kyu Yoo:
>>The position that "astrology does NOT work" is as much an unsupported
>>position (logically, scientifically) as the assertion, without proof, that
									                ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>it does.
>
>That just isn't true.  A well-informed skeptic can cite a great many
>statistically valid tests which produced null results.
Take care in reading, please.  My remark concerned those who held 
opinions without informed knowledge, i.e., "without proof."  
If you can "cite a great many statistically valid tests which produced 
null results," my criticism is not aimed at you. 
If you cannot...Bullseye.
.
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Doubters Of Astrology
Date: 3 Oct 92 17:16:55 GMT
Distribution: "world"
Organization: TRW Financial Systems

motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net writes:
>
>How is this supposed to prove anything about the validity of astrology?
>If you are getting other information from the person then there is no
>way to determine the source of any statements you make (astrology of
>personal observation). If astrology had *any* validity you could produce
>useful information based *only* on a persons birth time.
>
>While what you propose may be interesting to watch, its basically useless
>as far as proving anything.

*groan*
Look, yes, it is useful, as follows:
You're born on a given day X at time T at location L. The chart I draw up
for you is absolutely fixed by this information.
If I can now begin to tell you, you're this kind of person, you have these
tendencies, etc. - with no other information - then that says something
about the validity of the chart.

Why is it so hard to pin someone down, just with their chart?
There are ten 'planets', each planet will be in a sign, and each will be in a
house. Next, there is the rising sign, indicating the start of the house
system; the Midheaven; the Moon's nodes, the parts of Fortune and Spirit,
and finally asteroids - from 4 to 13, depending how many you want to use.
You can also factor in 'fixed stars'.

Between any two points, depending on their angular separation, they may or
may not be in aspect, and there are numbers of aspects.

When finished drawing the chart, you can end up with a very complex graph.
This is the archetypal map of the psychology of the person. We're discussing
the interaction between components of what gives the person to be as they
are. I cannot look at a specific aspect and say, "This means blah", without
looking at the connections to everything else. I cannot also predict what
learning the person has already done around issues in the chart. If Mars
squared Venus indicates and internal male/female split, how much of that
has the person worked through already? And that single relationship's
character will affect the relations between all points in the chart.
There are still too many degrees of freedom, as it were, I can only make
classes of guesses to begin with.
I *must* explore the person themselves, to *complete* my determination
of the chart, to be able to advise the person in who they exactly are.
The advisory part is the heart of astrology - by the time I've reached this
phase, I'm not trying to prove anything.

All my first-pass sketches will reveal is that set of classes of guesses,
but that's all *I* want to prove.
-ecsd
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa