From: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: feminine as default (summary)
Keywords: feminine generic default
Date: 11 Apr 92 10:59:59 GMT
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <29E63EED.8588@noiro.acs.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>In article <1992Apr8.201054.21752@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> hermes@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Ron Szoke) writes:

... more precisely, quotes bodies of articles from the Linguist List
without the names of the authors.

>>>  Subject: Gender marking
>>>
>>>  In Esperanto, "father" = 'patro' while "mother" = 'patrino'.
>>>  That is, "patro" with the feminizing suffix "-ino."
>>>
>>>  Personally, I have a violently negative reaction to that
>>>  formation and believe it's a fault that ought to be fixed.

I don't remember who this belonged to.
 
>>Yes, I dislike this one too, as well as "viro : virino" `man : woman':
>>I find it unnatural to think of `mother' as `female father' (which
>>completely misses the natural counterposition `bearer' : `begetter')
>>or of `woman' as `female man' (where "man" is not used in its generic
>>sense, which it has in English; rather, it means `male human').  I
>>know that there are some Esperantists who use "matro".

I am the man who wrote this.

>It's wonderful to hear other people
>disliking this term!  I can't STAND it, and was told by my tutor that I
>was the only person who didn't like calling my mom "female-father" <...>

You're not the only one.  There are at least four of us - you, the
LinguistLister I was replying to above, an Esperantist whose name I
unfortunately can't be expected to recall, and I.

>It's very nice to see that
>reaction from others and, sorry -- from men as well.

Then I'm afraid that this here male anti-feminist's reasons for
disliking the word "patrino" may turn out to be quite different from
yours.  I oppose the claim that the default sex/gender (the one marked
with a null morpheme, or the one whose pronoun is used for creatures
of unspecified sex) is being made superior to the other by this.  But
I find "patrino" ugly.  I remember coming across it in a Hungarian
crossword puzzle - the clue was the Hungarian word for `mother',
"anya" - 7 letters - and I was shocked when I saw the answer.  I had
been absolutely sure it had to begin with "matr-".

>Genetics has shown that the Y-chromosome is actually
>an X with a little piece broken off.

Talking of little pieces...  oops.  :-)

>Shouldn't "man" then be "virfemo" and "father" be "virmatro?"

`Father' ought to be "matredzo", by Roman law.  :-)

>My mom and dad are my mom and dad, damn it.

That was exactly my point: the two meanings should have separate
roots.  The concepts of father and mother don't relate to one another
as the concepts of male and female friend, doctor etc.

>Where have you heard of Esperantists who use "matro?"

Little.  It was during the huge AL flamewar early last year.  I
mentioned that I disliked this particular thing about Esperanto, and
an Esperantist said that he used "matro" instead.  Needless to say, he
was flamed immediately.

>I'm glad other people resent
>having half the race treated as the default and the other half being
>relegated to a suffix.

Just wanted to clarify that I don't belong to those other people, as
I'm sure many netters and nettrices know from my articles.
-- 
---- --- -- -  Long Live the Rose and the Heather!  - -- --- ----
Ivan A Derzhanski   (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk;  iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu)
* Centre for Cognitive Science,  2 Buccleuch Place,  Edinburgh EH8 9LW,  UK
* Cowan House, Pollock Halls, 18 Holyrood Park Road, Edinburgh EH16 5BD, UK