From: ljmorly@polaris.utu.fi (Laura Johanna Manninen)
Subject: Re: Lifdot & L'chaper (was: Re: Paradise
Organization: University of Turku
Date: 28 Sep 92 15:35:54

In article <9209170732.AA05875@aplpy.jhuapl.edu> levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene) writes:
> Bill Carlson writes:
> >     There are plenty of Rabbinic quotes that state that HaShem shall
> >     send Messiah to give His life as an attonement for the sins of
> >     the entire house of Israel - and that those who reject it, will
> >     suffer for them themselves.

> We learn that the death of a righteous man is "mechaper" - in the
> sense that when seeing how his life went, people will come to 
> repent and seek atonement.

mechaper = atones. The death of a righteous man atones.

> >  ...  There are plenty of Rabbinic quotes
> >     that state that Messiah will have the Divine Nature of HaShem.
> >     Do you know anyone, EVER, besides HaShem who is given the Name
> >     of HaShem? 

> *I* have it.  "Refoel" ==> "G-d has healed."

> Others include Daniel, Nathaniel, Samuel, Elchanan, Eliezer, Michael... 

All these names *include* the name of God, they are not *the* name of God.

> "Yehuda," from which "Jew" is derived, has the tetragrammaton in it.

> Other names based on the tetragrammaton include
>   Jonathan, John, Joshua, Basya, Zachary, Isaiah, Elijah, Jeremiah, etc...

But they aren't *the* tetragrammaton.

> > MIDRASH MISHLE[10:21];Rab Huna counted amongst the seven Names of
> > Messiah also:  HaShem Zidkenu, [Referring to Jer.23:6].
> > [Midrash Echa (1:51):]...What is the Name of King Messiah?    To this
> > answered Rabbi Abba bar Kahana: HaShem is His Name, for it is written:
> > 'This is the Name whereby He shall be called: HaShem Zidkenu'.

> Why is this so unusual?  King Zedekiah had that name.

> (Tzidkiyahu = "G-d is righteous")

Thanks. Here we see that Hashem Tzidkeinu means God our Righteousness,
whereas Tzidkiyahu means God *is* righteous. See the difference ?

> > And various times the Rabbi's translate Zech. with the SAME IDEA of
> > PIERCED:
> > Rabbi Moshe el-Sheikh/[AlSheikh], a leading Rabbi of Safed...
> > "I will do yet a third thing,  and that is, that  'they shall look unto
> > Me,'  for they  shall lift up their eyes unto Me in perfect repentance,
> > when they see Him Whom they pierced, that is Messiah,the Son of Joseph;
> >     You will continue to be told the same, and we will continue to
> >     believe the same.  The only thing that will change, is if you
> >     choose to believe - where now you choose to reject.

> It's not the "same" idea of "pierced" at all.  

>   Zecharia 12:10            Psalm 22:17
>  _ __  ___ ____           _ __  \ | ___ 
> .|   | , /  . |           |   | |\|  . |
>  |   | |      |               | | \ ___|
>         T    T               .   -:  T

>  "thrust through"          "like a lion"

> Completely different words and different meanings.  Zech.
> 12:10 refers to how the messiah ben Yosef will be killed 
> in battle against the enemies of the Jews.

First of all, you forget that there are manuscripts that have vav in 
Ps. 22:17; ka'aru. Then you think that if there is one word, lidkor (dakar,
dakru) for 'pierced', that's all. Furthermore, the word ka'ari/ka'aru 
(lich'or) is translated as 'pierced' in Syriac and Septuagint. I wouldn't 
call that any coincidence. Then, in Zech. 12:10 you can't ignore the one
who is speaking... 

- Laura
--
Rabbinic Judaism is a relationship with Rabbis,
Messianic Judaism is a relationship with the Messiah Yeshua.