HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: terry@zoe.network23.com (Terry)
Subject: Re: Copying a superclass object?
Organization: Mystech Associates
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:53:53 GMT

From article <1992Aug17.133319.13593@ctr.columbia.edu>, by leo@avs.com (Leo O'Donnell):
> 
>     I've got a bunch of objects of class A that need to be copied to
>     its subclass A+. This always happens when an object of A+ is created.
>     I could always reorganize my class hierarchy and make A and instance
>     object of A+. I could also write methods that would permit me to copy
>     all of the instance objects of A. Both of these are tedious and require
>     careful maintenance. 
> 
>     Is there a better way? (If I'm missing something obvious -- Please, be 
>     gentle with me :=)).
> 
> 
> Leo O'Donnell                Email: leo@avs.com
Leo

Its unclear as to what you are trying to do.  Could you describe the problem
you are trying to solve, not just your solution.

Terry
-- 
terry@zoe.network23.com
{rayssd,xanth,mirror,att}!galaxia!zoe!terry
From: atoenne@mpii02000.cs.uni-sb.de (Andreas Toenne)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Minor Bug in my AnimatedCursors
Date: 19 Aug 92 10:11:13 GMT
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Informatik

Hi!

Yesterday I posted some animated cursors here. They are a bit buggy.
The following slipped me because I tested them on Sparcstations only.

The methods privateSetupProcess in FileinCursor and SpinningCursor
unregister the cursor but do not free the old handle. This may result in
low-space situtiation on platforms like Window and OS/2.

Add in both methods the statement 'self primFreeCursor' after the two
occurences of 'self class unregister: self'.

I'm sorry for any crashes this might have caused.

	Andreas

-- 

	Andreas Toenne			Voice: 	x49 681 5846272
	Max-Planck-Institut		Office:	x49 681 302 5363
	fuer Informatik			e-mail:	atoenne@mpi-sb.mpg.de

	Im Stadtwald
	6600 Saarbruecken, Germany
From: mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: Classic Smalltalk bugs
Date: 13 Aug 92 13:31:42 GMT
Organization: DB and ES Subdivision, TU Vienna

From article <48.1320@rick.infoserv.com>, by rick@rick.infoserv.com (Rick Klement):
> This still does not free you from the requirement of understanding the
> entire superclass chain. I don't see any way around that. Inheritance
> is not free, or particularly easy, there is a cost associated with it
> (time, effort, understanding, etc...). This cost may (or may not) make
> Nicole's LOVE for Smalltalk wane eventually, when she realizes all the
> implications of the language.

Not a question of the language, but of the "code reuse" view of
inheritance.  Also, this is not a newly introduced problem, but rather
a kind of residue.  Don't forget that inheritance does make a lot of
dependencies explicit that are implicitly present in non-oo programs,
i.e., the cost you mention above is what's left over after subtracting
the benefits of inheritance.  Saying "it's bad because it doesn't
handle *everything*" means throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
A class has an interface to the classes that inherit from it, just as
to those that use it.  You can restrict that interface (as C++ does)
or use tools that present a flattened hierarchy (as Eiffel has, I
think), but that doesn't remove the problem completely.  Still makes
it easier than doing without.

> 3) You absolutely must pay the cost for understanding the superclass
> chain. Ignorance is not bliss, mostly it's a recipe for disaster.

You don't have to understand the whole chain, but the parts that have
not been superseded in lower classes.
-- 
Markus Stumptner                                mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at
University of Technology Vienna                 vexpert!mst@relay.eu.net
Paniglg. 16, A-1040 Vienna, Austria             ...mcsun!vexpert!mst
From: irvine@ntmtv.UUCP (Chuck Irvine)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Win UI programming in ST/V Win
Keywords: ST/V Win, UI, ViewManger
Date: 17 Aug 92 20:01:50 GMT
Organization: Northern Telecom Inc, Mountain View, CA

In my opinion, the Digitalk documentation on how to build
"Windows" style user interfaces is pretty poor. (In general
I think the product is great!). Actually, I think all of 
the documentation regarding user interface building could
use some expansion. In particular, from just reading their
documentation, I don't feel I have 
an adequate understanding of the concept or
especially the use of the "VeiwManager" class.

So, why am I posting this note? Does anyone know of a good
source of information on this subject? I haven't looked on
Compuserve. Is that a good source? Does anyone know of any good
third party books on the subject? Any help will be appreciated.

Chuck Irvine
ames!ntmtv!irvine
Northern Telecom
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.lang.eiffel,comp.lang.c++
From: wade@cs.UAlberta.CA (Wade Holst)
Subject: Modular Smalltalk Comments/Criticisms
Organization: University of Alberta
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 06:02:08 GMT


In addition to implementing Modular Smalltalk, I want to make at least a general 
comparison of languages such as smalltalk, eiffel, C++, objective C, Object Pascal, 
CLOS, etc. I would be very interested to hear any comments/praise/criticisms for
or about Modular Smalltalk, and any advantages of other languages 
over it that you may have.

Also of great use would be actual Modular Smalltalk code on which to run
my compiler.

Thank you,

Wade Holst
University of Alberta
From: gbunyan@datlog.co.uk (Gordon Bunyan)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Help: Porting smalltalk code in a DLL!
Summary: Can another language use a smalltalk DLL?
Keywords: DLL Portability
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:50:43 GMT
Organization: Data Logic Limited

I've recently spent a number of hours reading ST VPM 1.4
and ST V 2.0 manuals trying to understand if I can put a ST application
in a DLL for use by another programming language (eg, Visual Basic or
C). 

The manuals state quite clearly that "any procedure in any DLL is
callable from ST/V". However, I can't find any such clear statement
which say's that the converse is true -- "any procedure (method) in
any DLL is callable from ...".

The intention is to use a smalltalk application I have written to
manipulate data between two visual basic programs (commercially 
available products).

I have a sneaking suspicion that ST DLL's arn't REAL DLL's
because they don't seem to provide the facility for an API which
can be used by another programming language. Am I right ?


Gordon Bunyan.
 
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: muhr@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Thomas Muhr)
Subject: Re: Classes as a dirty trick to get globals.
Organization: Techn. University of Berlin, Germany
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 06:38:58 GMT

riks@ogicse.cse.ogi.edu (Rik Fischer SmOOdy) writes:

>A common "dirty trick"  is to use a class with class methods as an
>    implementation for a "globally known" object which is expected
>    to be unique.  This class is never expected to be instantiated:
>    instances would have no capabilities except those inherited by
>    default from #Object.
I would not call it a "dirty" trick, but as one solution to overcome
the difficulties in accessing variables which are shared between
different branches in the class hierarchy. It is better than using
global variables which are hard to maintain (usually they are prefixed
by an unambigous string) in the global Smalltalk dictionary. Pool
dictionaries also have their disadvantages (clash between local
variables and pool variables). Maybe an export/import mechanism would
provide a better solution. What is your solution?

>The trick usually works, but it qualifies as design by accident.
>A tyro might study the object as an example and be misled.
>    (It is important to encourage re-use to keep the visible structure
>   as comprehensible as we can)
I do not think that a static class structure is documentation in
itself, but should always be clarified by commentaries. 
>Future engineers might decide that there needs to be another "instance"
>    of this globally known object.  I have seen an example (identity
>    of perpetrators withheld to protect the unconvicted) where the
>    second instance was implmented as a sub-class, with numerous methods
>    over-written to access a different class variable.
I do not understand the above. What is meant by "second instance impl.
as subclass"?
>
>On Smalltalk V/MAC, a quick scan found (Color MTrap Compiler and LCompiler )
Compiler & LCompiler aren't merely holders of global variables, they
have a lot of hidden code, thou.

- Thomas 

--
Thomas Muhr - Project ATLAS - Technical University of Berlin
voice: +49 30 314 27882  
BITNET: muhrth@db0tui11  INTERNET: muhr@cs.tu-berlin.de
Compu$erve: 100013,377
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: Classic Smalltalk bugs
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:23:10 GMT
Organization: DB and ES Subdivision, TU Vienna

From article <52.30198@rick.infoserv.com>, by rick@rick.infoserv.com (Rick Klement):
> In article <5720@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at>, mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner) writes:
> Well, the cost is independent of the benefit, you're talking value. 

I would say a evaluation based on cost alone is not useful.  Whenever
you look at a feature, you look at the tradeoffs you incur by using
it, but that's always value, not cost alone.

> I didn't say that. I'm just saying that the costs should be understood
> and evaluated before a choice is made.

I agree, but you DID talk about evaluating Smalltalk (which
generalizes to any OO language), based on COST, and not VALUE, of
inheritance.  I don't agree.

>> think), but that doesn't remove the problem completely.  Still makes
>> it easier than doing without.
> Maybe, maybe not. Evaluation before judgement.

Good point, I do not have a formal evaluation of the effects of
inheritance on software reuse.

> [parts not superseded] + [parts you write] + [parts you override*]
> seems like the whole chain to me...

No, because it may be sufficient to look at a projection of that chain
(i.e., a flattened view).  Of course, that is a again a question of
good design.


-- 
Markus Stumptner                                mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at
University of Technology Vienna                 vexpert!mst@relay.eu.net
Paniglg. 16, A-1040 Vienna, Austria             ...mcsun!vexpert!mst
From: mike_r@nic.cerf.net (Mike Roberts)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Silence project management tools for V\PM, V\Windows
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:19:29 GMT
Organization: CERFnet

I recently saw an advert in the Smalltalk report for 'Silence',
a $149.95 set of project management/delivery tools. The 
'reply' fax tells me in comprizes a project manager, project 
browser, restorer, installer and profiler and has a bunch
of usefull looking images of the tools concerned.

The seat price (per extra user) is $112.95 (up to 5 users), then
$74.95 afterwards. The thing is currently available for V/PM 
and V/Windows and includes a persistent object toolkit, free.

Given the current pricing structure for Envy/Developer and
AM/ST this seems like a really good deal.

Anyone got this stuff ?? And care to comment on how they
are finding it ??

Mike Roberts, MediaShare Inc, mike_r@cerf.net
"A brit in yank land"
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: mjb@netcom.com (Martin Brown)
Subject: Re: shareware/public domain ST/V Win code
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 19:40:45 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Aug18.173034.8951@ntmtv> irvine@ntmtv.UUCP (Chuck Irvine) writes:
>I wondering if there are sources of public domain or shareware
>source code for ST/V Win? I'm interested in anything. If anyone 
>knows of any I'd certainly appreciate information on how to
>access it. Thanks much.
>
>Chuck Irvine
>ames!ntmtv!irvine
>Northern Telecom

Two places I know of are the Digitalk forum on Compuserve, and at the archive
site st.cs.uiuc.edu and its mirror cs.man.ac.uk  .


-- 

                                   - mjb -

                                mjb@netcom.com

Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: robert@metropolis.com (Robert Munyer)
Subject: Re: Yet Another Beginner's Question...
Organization: Metropolis Software, Inc.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 03:27:45 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.114105.5174@uklirb.informatik.uni-kl.de>
frerk@informatik.uni-kl.de writes:

> - If you must use the same name for the message and the variable then you are
> voilating encapsulation, are you have no 'private' variables.

> - In Smalltalk you can modify the method for Class creation in MetaClass so
> that methods for reading and writing all variables are created by default.
> Classes created this way behave like records. Therefore this behaviour is not
> part of the definition of Smalltalk.  You CAN do it if you like, but you
> don't have to.

No, you are missing the point.  (My fault, I'm sure, for not explaining it
better).  I will try again; see my response to Joerg Rade's article "designing
an OO language".

______________________________________________________________________
Robert Munyer            |   "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid."
robert@metropolis.com    |      -- Bishop, _Aliens_

Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: muhr@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Thomas Muhr)
Subject: Re: Modifying Class Hierarchy Browser titles
Keywords: ClassHierarchyBrowser, label, title, MDI
Organization: Techn. University of Berlin, Germany
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:56:51 GMT

irvine@ntmtv.UUCP (Chuck Irvine) writes:


>I typically have several class hierarchy browsers open at
>the same time. To be able to distinguish between them, it
>would be nice to have the title bars of the windows say
>more than just "Class Hierarchy Browser". For example, they
>might be labelled "Class Hierarchy Browser | Object->hash", 
>indicating that I'm currently browsing the "hash" method of "object".
>Also, when in MDI mode, it would be very helpful to have these
>more descriptive titles displayed in the pull down "Windows" 
>menu. 
>
>I would be very thankful to anyone that could lend me help in
>doing this. Actually, I think it would be a helpful addition to
>the product.
>
>Thanks
>
>Chuck Irvine
>ames!ntmtv!irvine
>Northern Telecom

Here we go:
!ClassHierarchyBrowser methods !
 
label
  "Autor: Th. Muhr, Datum: 7 Aug 1992
   Kommentar: tired of getting lost in browsers?
Insert in every method changing the current context
(like selector:, removeSelector, removeClass, etc.):
 
	self label: self label
 
near the lines containing the "self changed: xxxx"-calls.
 
"
|l|
l:= 'CHB: '.
self selectedClass isNil
    ifFalse:[
        l:= l,self selectedClass name.
        selectedMethod isNil
        ifFalse:[l:= l,'/',selectedMethod]].
^l! !

--
Thomas Muhr - Project ATLAS - Technical University of Berlin
voice: +49 30 314 27882  
BITNET: muhrth@db0tui11  INTERNET: muhr@cs.tu-berlin.de
Compu$erve: 100013,377
From: riks@ogicse.cse.ogi.edu (Rik Fischer SmOOdy)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Classes as a dirty trick to get globals.
Date: 14 Aug 92 00:46:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.41337
Distribution: world
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR

Ralph: here's one for the list.

A common "dirty trick"  is to use a class with class methods as an
    implementation for a "globally known" object which is expected
    to be unique.  This class is never expected to be instantiated:
    instances would have no capabilities except those inherited by
    default from #Object.
The trick usually works, but it qualifies as design by accident.
A tyro might study the object as an example and be misled.
    (It is important to encourage re-use to keep the visible structure
   as comprehensible as we can)
Future engineers might decide that there needs to be another "instance"
    of this globally known object.  I have seen an example (identity
    of perpetrators withheld to protect the unconvicted) where the
    second instance was implmented as a sub-class, with numerous methods
    over-written to access a different class variable.

On Smalltalk V/MAC, a quick scan found (Color MTrap Compiler and LCompiler )
Smalltalk80 V4 comes with DefineOpcodePool but that may have other
    redeeming social value.
The most egregious examples have come with other installed packages.

Mr. Manners instead approves of the way Smalltalk80 uses the globally
published objects named Transcript, Undeclared, and even Smalltalk itself.

Rik Fischer Smoody
smOOdynamics	 Systems Made Outa Objects
	2400 NE 25th, Suite 800
	Portland, OR 97212
riks@cse.ogi.edu
503-249-8300
From: cyberman@toz.buffalo.ny.us (Cyberman)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: do i *need* a 387 for
Date: 16 Aug 92 21:56:57 GMT
X-Maildoor: WaflineMail 1.00r


     -=> Marc "velz" Van Velzen spoke of "Re: do i *need* a 387 for" <=-
    To All at 08-13-92  13:05
 M"VV> Sounds great! got 'ny internet addresss?

Yes I'll email you a MAN page on looking for FTP sites via email.

 M"VV> Yes, I'm affraid so, I think it doesn't run at all on anything less
 M"VV> than  a 386DX (might on 386SX though, not sure about that).

Gee us mere mortals have a problem then! :)
Well I'll just have to shell over the buck for an upgrade. [need
it anyway!]

        Stephen Cyberman@Toz.Buffalo.NY.US
        Scripted at Sun  08-16-1992  14:51:31

... The oldest trick in the book?  What's a book?
--- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
From: muhr@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Thomas Muhr)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: Selling A Smalltalk Program
Date: 16 Aug 92 21:47:35 GMT
Organization: Techn. University of Berlin, Germany

nicted@toz.buffalo.ny.us (Nicole Tedesco) writes:

>Has anyone dealt with the problem of trying to mass-market a Smalltalk-80 
>program to clients who require a large number of run-time liscenses?  Our 
>(potential) clients all have big networks, and LOTS of terminals.  
>ParcPlace run-times would cost our clients thousands of dollars extra.
>
>How does one deal with this marketing problem?
Port your application to ST/V Windows (and let your customers buy PCs
as terminals!-).
Seriously: the ST/V Win & PM created programs are run-time free (not
their ST/V and ST/V 286 products, thou).
They are also planning a UNIX version of ST/V, maybe that will be a
cheaper solution as well..
- Thomas
--
Thomas Muhr - Project ATLAS - Technical University of Berlin
voice: +49 30 314 27882  
BITNET: muhrth@db0tui11  INTERNET: muhr@cs.tu-berlin.de
Compu$erve: 100013,377
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: muhr@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Thomas Muhr)
Subject: How to upload to Manchester?
Organization: Techn. University of Berlin, Germany
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:09:28 GMT

I have a few pieces of ST/V software from Digitalk's Compu$erve forum
for which the author granted permission to make it publically
available.
One file is a general parser generator TGEN for ST/V Windows. It is
about 120K in compressed mode.
How do I upload the sources to Manchester? Should I send it to a
moderator ?
- Thomas 
--
Thomas Muhr - Project ATLAS - Technical University of Berlin
voice: +49 30 314 27882  
BITNET: muhrth@db0tui11  INTERNET: muhr@cs.tu-berlin.de
Compu$erve: 100013,377
From: marten@feki.toppoint.de (Marten Feldtmann)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: Digitalk ST/V-PM: more problems?!
Distribution: world
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 17:13:48 GMT
Organization: Private Site

Another nice way to crash ST-V/PM 1.4 with OS/2 2.0  (at least on my system):

               1 to: 500 do: [ :anIndex | 
                   Transcript show: (anIndex printString) ; cr ]

The machine is a 486/33, 16MB ... perhaps it's a timing problem, because
the number at which ST-V/Pm crashes is not always the same.

It always produces an illegal access error within the library "PMMLE.DLL".

Can someone confirm this?

 MF



--
Marten Feldtmann                         E-Mail: marten@tpki.toppoint.de
2300 Kiel 14,    Kieler Str. 29,   Tel.: 0431-731916,   FAX: 0431-737677

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 10:03:32 MST
From:         Bor-Yea You <ASBYY@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Smalltalk FAQ
              17 Aug 1992 00:21:33 LCL from <latta@SCAM.BERKELEY.EDU>

COULD YOU PLEASE ALSO SEND ME THE FAQ? THANK YOU.


BOR-YEA YOU


ARIZONA STATE UNIV.

    __________________________________________
   |                                          |
   |                                          |
   |                                          |
   |__________________________________________|
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: frerk@informatik.uni-kl.de (Frerk Meyer)
Subject: Re: Yet Another Beginner's Question...
Reply-To: frerk@informatik.uni-kl.de
Organization: AG Telematik
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 11:45:15 GMT

Yet Another Answer...

With 'ColorValue black' you call a class method, which returns a constant,
in this Case the Value of the Class variable 'Black'. This has been initialized
by 'Black := ColorValue brightness: 0'.
Do an 'inspect' on 'ColorValue constantNames' for more constant Colors.
But the easiest would be you use one of the instance creation methods for your color.

Besides I'm still disappointed that even in PPS 4.1 you cannot get ANY color
from X because of platform compatibility. (That would mean manipulating the
ColorPalette of the hosts window system).

-- 
Frerk Meyer                 Who was the most successful athlete    __o 
frerk@informatik.uni-kl.de  of the Olympic Games in Barcelona?   _`\<,_
IRCNICK = Portnoy           Ms. Anna Bolica !                   (_)/ (_)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: brent@uwovax.uwo.ca (Brent Sterner)
Subject: Re: Yet Another Beginner's Question...
Organization: University of Western Ont, London
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:20:03 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.081911.12958@heeg.de>, hmm@heeg.de (Hans-Martin Mosner) writes:
> 
> To send messages with variable selectors, you must use the perform:
> message, as in
> 
> displayOn: aGraphicsContext
> 	| colour |
> 	colour := #black.
> 
> 	aGraphicsContext
> 		paint: (ColorValue perform: colour);
> 		displayRectangle: graphBar.
> 

	I have followed this technique; the problem is resolved.
	Several of you sent email to me to explain, and I thank
	you again for your help.  Cheers,  b.
--
Brent Sterner                       Manager, Academic Technical Support
Fast:       <BRENT@uwo.ca>          <129.100.2.13>
Telephone:  (519)661-2151 x 6036    Fax:   (519)661-3486
Slow:  Computing & Communications Services, Natural Sciences Building
       The University of Western Ontario, London, Ontario, Canada  N6A 5B7