From: Roger Adams <RADAMS@cerritos.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: revelations or lack thereof...
Date: 8 Jan 1993 18:07:26 -0800
Organization: Cerritos College, Norwalk CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: gap.caltech.edu

In article <1iil9sINNlv8@gap.caltech.edu>, 
billc@devnull.mpd.tandem.com (Bill Carter) writes:

>    I figured someone would bring up Vedanta eventually.  Sure,
>    I'll admit that Hinduism and Buddhism both are huge globs and
>    anything you say about either of them can be disclaimed.  Still
>    I am hoping some kind of comparison can be drawn.  Let's put Vedanta
>    aside for now, it has shared so much back and forth with Buddhism
>    that they are almost indistinguishable to me.

But this was my point. Vedanta is just as much a part of Hinduism as any
other aspect. Indispensable, cannot put it aside, sorry. :-)

> 
>    I was kind of hoping someone would step forward and say "I am
>    Hindu, and I think Hinduism is/is not a "revealed" religion for
>    the following reasons".  Since that hasn't happened yet I have
>    to try to explain their side more than I really want to.
> 

The statement "I am a Hindu" can mean Vedantist, Yogi, or any endless number
of sects. I know that you wish to discuss this with someone other than
me :-) but the contrast you pose between Hinduism and Buddhism does not
exist except in superficial or surface interpretations and not in their
essence as I am sure you already know.

>    Someone else feel free to set the record straight.  You've got
>    your Vedas, which are enormous and rambling.  But a core document
>    appears to be the Bhagavad Gita, sometimes called the bible of
>    Hinduism.  In it, Krishna is the chariotdriver of Arjuna.  Krishna
>    is portrayed as supernatural, a direct physical manifestation of
>    divinity who "reveals" the mystic truth to Arjuna. 

Krishna like Buddha, spoke from his realization about truth to his disciple
Arjuna. Krishna taught to meditate and find truth within as did Buddha.
One who is fully enlightened is manifesting the divine perfectly. Buddha
and Krishna were both avatars, which as I mentioned previously, is the
highest type of master - one who became fully illumined in a previous life
and has come back (usually many times) to help others to be likewise
illumined and they also need to be subjected to delusion again and overcome
it inevitably. Now, there will be sects who say Christ or Krishna just
fell out of heaven and did not have the slightest problem in manifesting
divinity but it never works like that. Nobody would bother to try to be
like someone they believe to be out of reach, never having suffered delusion
and don't know what it is like to be deluded. This is why they are all
subjected to delusion even such great ones who were masters in many lives.
They are to always be examples to us and not cosmic exceptions or freaks.
They once went through many incarnations of delusion like most of us before
they became free. Then they returned over and over to help others across
the vast ocean of delusion still being subjected to a certain amount of
delusion again and again. I wonder why they would want to do this except
out of pure, unselfish love, because the ego is gone in these masters.

>    Now, plenty of people would squawk that this is metaphorical
>    and it is a big mistake to take the story literally.  I feel the
>    same way.  But the fact remains that the literal, surface
>    interpretation is as I stated it above and plenty of people see
>    no further than this (Druta Karma, where are you when I need you?).
>    Christianity, by this definition, is very much "revealed"
>    indeed.

It sounds like you prefer to discuss these matters with those who have
literal interpretations of scriptures so I will gladly yield the pulpit
for others to make their points. But I do think this has been an interesting
discussion.

>    Actually, O Roger of the many run-on sentences :), I didn't say
>    anything about him not being divine.  I said he was ordinary in
>    the same sense as you and I, unlike Krishna or Jesus.
> 

Christ, Krishna, Buddha, you, me, others, come from the same one Reality
with is God. The only difference between us and Buddha, Christ, Krishna,
is that they fully manifest the divinity within and the rest of us not
yet doing this need to surrender the ego then we will also be masters.
We are not ordinary. Krishna and Jesus were not cosmic exceptions, their
whole point was that we could be as they are. The disagreement you are
looking for and appear to be trying to coax from someone on this net is
to be found only on surface levels of interpretations and in man-made doctrines
and dogma and not in the essential truth found in the three religions you
have mentioned in recent posts including the one I am responding to. I
find you are saying the same thing as me about what is inspiring about
Buddha and the other great ones who were in as much delusion as the rest
of us and overcame it thus we come to the same conclusion but from different
paths. Thanks for putting up with my long-winded sermons :-).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	Roger Adams
	radams@cerritos.edu               To those in whom love dwells,
	Cerritos College                  the whole world is one family.
	11110 Alondra Blvd                             A Hindu Proverb
        Norwalk, California 90650
	USA        		          293 Dwapara :-)
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