From: sp2@cec2.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: A ThEvaaram verse (translation)
Date: 22 Jan 1993 18:17:45 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In a previous article mvishnu@bcr3.uwaterloo.ca (Meenan Vishnu) writes:

> In a previous article sp2@cec2.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian) writes:

>>  `maasil veeNaiyum maalai madhiyamum
>>   veesu  thenRalum veenkiLa vEnilum
>>   moosu  vaNdaRai poykaiyum pOnRadhE
>>   eesan  endhai  iNaiydai neezhalE. '
>>
>>     The poet ( Appar ? ) talks here about how pleasant
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> is the shelter of the feet of Lord Shiva in Saiva
>> Siddhantha. I have some questions about the meanings of
>> some of the Tamil words in this `veNpaa'.

   I am not sure this is from Appar ThEvaaram. When I read
 this verse again today, it looks as it was written by
 Maanikka Vaasakar.              

>>   maasil veeNaiyum -  What does it mean here ? What is
>>                       a `maasil veeNai' ? ( I know that
>>                       Veena is a musical instrument.
>>                       I don't understand this comparison
>>                       here.. ) Does the poet mean that
>>                       the shelter is pleasant like Carnatic
>>                       music in Veena without `abaswaram' ?
>>                       Was Carnatic music developed in the
>>                       days of Appar and Sundarar.. ?

>maasil = maasu + il  (flaw + not). 
>veeNai == a South Indian musical instrument 
>Hence it means flawless veeNai music.   

   I also thought in these lines, but not sure of it. I think
 he means `flawless Carnatic music' here....

>>
>>   maalai madhiyamum - I know this means `evening' here.

>maalai == evening, garland
>madhi == moon, intellect
>So it means evening moon.

   I agree with you. `madhiyam' here means `moon' as you are
 saying..

>>
>>   veesu thenRalum -  I know this means `pleasant wind'.
>>                      This comparison is clearly a continuation
>>                      of `maalai madhiyamum', as we get cool
>>                      wind in the evenings in TN. 

> veesu == blow, flow
> thenRal == breeze.
> So it means flowing breeze

   `flowing' is implicit here for the English translation and so
 `veesu thenRalum' may be translated shortly as `breeze'.

>>   veenkiLa vEnilum - I know that `vEnil' also means `kaaRRu'.
>>                      Also `veenkiLa' = `veengu + iLa'. I think
>>                      this comparison is a _repitition_.

> No it is not.
> veenku == swell, full, overflow, abundant, luxuriant etc
> iLa + vEnil == young, active, + spring season (also vasantham)

> So it means luxuriant and lively spring season.

   You are correct. Yes, I have also heard of the usage `vEnil
 kaalam' by some people..

>>   moosu vaNdaRaip poykai - I know that `poykai' means a `pond'.
>>                            What is `moosu vaNdaRai' ? I was lost
>>                            here...

> moosu == cuNNaampu (?), lime
> moosu vaNdaRai == lime room (?)  (see below for explanation)
> poykai == pond

  I differ from you here. I don't think this is a correct translation
 for `moosu vaNdaRai poykai..'. I see that you have tried to translate
 this part with Appar's history.. I thought in the lines, what if this
 was written by Maanikaa Vaasagar and I tried to translate it in that
 case and I have some ideas now..

   I have not seen the meaning `chuNNaambu' for `moosu' and I do see
 the question mark you have put for this meaning.. This word `moosu'
 is from `moochchu' meaning `breath'. Hence a good meaning that one
 can get for `moosu' is `lively'. I think you have interpreted 
 `vaNdaRai' as `a lime room' [ with a question mark, meaning unsure]
 I think a good meaning for `vaNdaRai' is `vaNdu + thuRai' meaning
 the `place of bees'. Hence `moosu vaNdaRai poykai' may be translated 
 as

  moosu vaNdaRai poykai == moosu (lively) + vaNdu(bees) + thuRai (place)
                           + poykai (pond)
                        == A pond, where lively bees wander in joy

> pOnRathu == it is like, identical to, same as 

> It means "The lime room is (cool) like a pond."

  See above..

>>   pOnRathE = Like above..
>>
>>   eesan  endhan =  Our Lord Shiva ( I think the word `eesan' for
>>                    Shiva is from the Sanskrit word `eeswaran' for
>>                    Shiva.. )
>>
>I think it should read eesan endhai.

  A typo. Sorry..

> eesan == Lord, God, Siva

> endhai == (?)

 endhai == em + thanthai ( our father )

 I am sure you must have heard of the Bharati's song,
 
 `endhaiyum thaayum makizhndhu kulaavi
    irundhathum inNnNaadE! ..'

 Here Bharati is referring to his forefathers and foremothers in India.

> iNai + adi == (?) + feet

  `iNai' means `sErndha' [composed]. I have taken the meaning
 `glorious' from the context..

> nizal + E == shadow, shelter + verily

  It is `neezhalE', I think. But the meaning is the same..

>>  iNaiyadi = his glorious feet..
>>  
>>  neezhalE = shelter.  
>>
>>A translation (to be completed):
>>-------------------------------
>>    "Like a pure Veena (?), like a pleasant evening, like a cool wind,
>>  like fresh, pleasing wind, like a (??) pond is the shelter of the 
>>  glorious feet of our Lord Shiva. "
>>
>>- SP.
>>

>Like flaw-less veeNa (music)
>And Like the (pleasant) evening moon
>And Like flowing breeze
>And Like  luxuriant and lively spring season 
>And Even lime room is like a cool pond 
>When I am at the shelter of my Lord's feet.
 
 [ Meenan Vishnu's historical details on Appar deleted.. ]

> Meenan Vishnu

 Revised translation : 
 -------------------

    " Like flawless, pleasing Veena music, like a pleasant evening 
  moon, like a pleasant breeze, like luxuriant and lively spring
  season, like a pond where the lively bees wander in joy, is the
  shelter of the glorious feet of our Lord Shiva. "

- SP.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil