From: jbw@ponder.csci.unt.edu (WEST JASON BRUCE)
Subject: Re: Ken's 4-Hit Touch of Death
Organization: University of North Texas, Denton
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 05:54:06 GMT

In article <Bz1JwA.Jrv@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cw21219@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Crying Freeman) writes:
>jbw@ponder.csci.unt.edu (WEST JASON BRUCE) writes:
>>   Ryu can hix up the spee of his HK.  Landing right behind you to throw you.
>>If you are counter-throwing he can dp you.  In essence, if Ryu is good at
>>this type of thing you CANNOT duck the HK.  You physically can, but it
>>will get you nailed one way or another by a master.  The only way to not
>>take any damage from a good Ryu's HK is to stop it.  Same as Bison's
>>flame.  And Bison's flame doesn't go through fireballs (a well timed HK
>>will).
>
>A couple of points:
>1) Ryu does not mix up the speed of his HK. The distance it travels varies
>	but not speed.

   Sorry, that's what I meant.  You don't know where he is going to land
(no speed change).  With Bison's torpedo you can tell where he is going
to land (by his speed).

>2) If he lands behind you and throws you, that's your fault.

  Correct.  But when you play in the land of "master no throwers" and you
can beat them without it, then you say "I'll let him land".  Then he
throws you for the win.  I no longer do this, but it is always a possibility
to be thrown in there. [Getting flamed is "your fault" also - that's not
really my point]. 

>3) If you are counter throwing properly, he CANNOT dragon punch.

  In terms of skill I would say it takes more skill to throw as soon as you
seem him land, then it is for him to dp as soon as he lands.  And it seems
like many times I go for the counter throw with Dhalsim I can get shorted out
of it.  Also, he can go just outside throw range and dp if you make a mistake 
of going for a throw.  Again, this is your fault, but it makes the set-up
no less powerful for a very simple move.  [I was discussing power of moves, not
"oh my god, this HK is WAY to hard man".  I understand everything can be
countered.]

>4) The reason you are getting nail must be because you suck.

   I don't get nailed.  I also don't duck the HK - so elliminate all of the
above anyway.  My point is power of the move, which I think you would agree
is ATLEAST as cool and devestating as Bison's puny flame.

>5) The only way no to take any damage from any move is to avoid it.

   Here here.  I can't count the number of times I've told Bison bitchers this.

>>>them.  In contrast there's no difficulty in crouching under the
>>>hurricane kick since it NEVER hits a crouched opponent.  Doesn't require
>
>>   But he will certaintly hurt you as soon as he lands.  Ducking an HK
>>is bad position from hell.
>
>Why can't you duck and uppercut him, ball him, do whatever to him.

   Dhalsim can't do that.  I can roundhouse slide out if I'm sure he'll 
land behind me.  But I choose to head-spin into him while he is in the
air - so it doesn't matter to me.  But his move does go over my
fireballs - which makes it even cooler.   Fireballs will stop Bison's
flame all damn day.

>I believe Ryu's hurricane kick is one of the most powerful moves
>in the game because of his invulnerability periods, the knock down
>power, and the damage it CAN do when it hits... NOT because if you
>duck it you're in trouble. Personally, I'd rather duck the HK...

   Here here.  But you would agree it is a atleast as powerful a move as
Bison's flame, correct?

>>>any timing, any kind of skill whatsoever.  
>
>>   Neither does jumping.  You can jump Bison's flame like its a fireball.
>
>What if you are getting up off the ground and Bison's flame is headed right
>at you not giving you enough time to do anything but block? You take the

   Ok, with Bison every time you fall down you take an extra couple ticks
of damage.  But I hardly think that is cause for the constant bitching that
goes on about it.  My only point is Ryu has capabilities that far surpass
those of Bison - but everyone bitches about Bison.  

>hit, just like a fireball, sonic boom, ball, and other special moves...
>EXCEPT it can do slightly more damage. 
>(Unless of course you can DP out of it.)
>
>There is no such condition for the hurricane kick.
>
>Ryu's hurricane kick and Bison's torpedo are both powerful moves
>when used properly. Your argument that the HK is devestating when
>you duck is ridiculous though.

   You misunderstood my point and/or I stated it poorly (O was very tired).
But I think we agree.

Ciao....


                                             - Jason

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