HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mps1@cec1.wustl.edu (Mihir Pramod Shah)
Subject: Re: Your Duty as an IA/American
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 02:28:22 GMT

Satyen,
     (1)  I am not condemning the EXISTENCE of these epithets.  You're
          right, every culture has them for every other culture.  My 
          point is that SOME, NOT ALL, Indians have a tendency to
          ramble in conversation using such words.  That's all.
     (2)  I did not mean to manifest any such self-hatred.  I am merely
          pointing out that SOME Indians refuse to interact reasonably
          with other non-Indian Americans.  We must learn to eagerly
          get along and respect the rest of society.
     (3)  You're more or less right about the "Indians are as racist"
          statement.  I was merely pointing out, again, some of the
          lack of involvement of Indians with the rest of the community,
          Indian or otherwise.

In general, yes, you are right, there is much self-hatred on the part 
of Indians going around, especially on the part of SOME IA's.  As an IA
myself, I would like to stress to every II and IA that we should on the
one hand be proud of our heritage and on the other hand present our culture
and interact with mainstream American society.  Thank you.


Peace...Mihir
From: samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: acceptance in this country
Date: 7 Nov 92 20:18:17 GMT
Reply-To: samaddar@siemens.com
Distribution: alt.culture.us.asian-indian

bhattach@molly.jpl.nasa.gov (Bidushi Bhattacharya) writes:

>for the next few years.  I know that if I went back to India,
>even though I speak Bengali fluently, I would be treated as 
>a "foreigner" because of my accent, my feminist views, my general 
>world view, and the way I walk in a sari (a joke--this is something 

Being treated as a "foreigner" need not imply that you'll not
be accepted. Also, out of the 4 reasons you have mentioned, only 2
, accent and sari-walk, may mark you out. There are plenty (remember,
in India even a tiny percentage of people constitute plenty) of
feminists (at least) in big cities. I don't know about your world view,
but I think you'll find people with all sorts of views.

>"fit in" better here and can fulfill my life's dreams and

This is probably a good enough reason. You have got used to USA ie;
you have already fitted in here.

>For these reasons, I've accepted myself as American.  It's

Good enough.

I think, you may reject India than the other way around, and the
reasons are more likely to be your having gotten used to the amenities
of USA.

Sumitro

Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav)
Subject: Re: arranged marriages
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:41:43 GMT

================================
>moh2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>Hmmm....
>>
>>I suddenly realized that half the women I talked to were in fact Sri
>>Lankan, and from small villages.  Therein may lay the heart of the
>>problem.
>>
>>I have to be careful about such generaliations of Sri Lankans as
>>Indians - it's similar, but not quite the same.

 baindur@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Satyen G Baindur) replies:
>Should we now discount the other generalizations we have heard from you 
>over the last few months, for example those about Indian men, for similar 
>reasons ?!
>Satyen

 No. 
 Actually, IMO, her opinions about indian (or SL, sri lankan for short) 
 men/women are pretty true and universal enuf that they can be 
 generalized globally. 

 I, for one, find them resonating more with facts than the average post
 in this group.

T.Y.
----
tyadav@athena.mit.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: dsb@godzilla.pi.macsch.com (Deepak Brar)
Subject: Re: Mix-Match
Followup-To: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Organization: The MacNeal-Schwendler Corp.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 00:47:49 GMT

In article <1992Nov2.230912.23206@news.acns.nwu.edu>, aseth@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Anand Sethuraman) writes:
|> 
|> Mix-matching spouses between americans and Indians (racial, not by
|> birth) will destroy our heritage as it so filmsily stands in this country.
|> 

???? What a crock of shit!

|> 
|> 
|> Stay true to your roots !!!

I see you're pretty close to the roots in the ground your head is buried in.

|> 
|> Anand Sethuraman,

Deepak
------
From: venu@cirrus.com (Venu Nayar)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Individualism
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:32:14 GMT
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.

In <1992Nov6.233404.12697@athena.mit.edu> tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh
Yadav) writes: 

[raghavan's reference to manish's article mentioning "absolute
individualism" deleted]

> I don't know what Manish had in mind when he wrote "absolute
> individualism"; but individualism, to me, doesn't mean a 
> lifestyle with no emotional attachments whatsoever.

individualism, to me too, merely refers to the expression of one's
individuality... maybe even asserting it. however, this could be done
without detaching oneself emotionally (or otherwise) from society. actually,
to express individality, one *needs* societal attachment, be it emotional or
not. 

> However, that does not mean emotions are what drive attachments.
> The attachments are based on facts and realities of the other
> individual's values, character and personality. Emotions do
> not sustain the relationship/attachment; emotions add to the
> substance. Emotions are not the cause of attachment, emotions 
> are the result. 

i don't quite understand this. i would definitely say that emotions temper
(even modify) most attachments. even if attachments are based on facts (here
i am assuming that by attachment you mean *human* attachment), it is the
undefinable emotions (and instincts, the gut feelings) which strengthen
them. so while emotions may not be the starting cause of an attachment, the
play a very large role in the contination of the attachment.

> With whatever facts I know, I think both these concepts go together. 
> To focus on oneself, to take care of oneself first, to not expect the
> rest of the world to live for you, to not do what you hate doing, to
> not expect yourself to be solely responsible for someone's happiness,
> to know and live by the conviction that
> 
>   "I, and I alone, am the only one responsible for my own happiness" 
> is what all this finally means and works (for me atleast).

however, sometimes it is also possible that my happiness is the result of
someone else's happiness and well-being. after all, a human being in today's
world is not a world unto himself...and inter-personal relationship play a
major (IMHO) role to one's happiness.
 
-- 
Venu Nayar			|		Internet: venu@cirrus.com
Cirrus Logic Inc.		|		(510)-226-2100 X3737 
For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat,
and wrong.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: misdeva@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu (Devjani Mishra)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Ashish, the Brahmin
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:49:20 GMT
Followup-To: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Organization: Yale University

I posted this question in response to Ashish Vaidya's second posting, but
never got a response, and would very much like an answer:

Ashish, you said that you believe in "no religion and no order", or
something very similar.  What does it mean to you to identify yourself as a
Brahmin?  I would really like to know.

       /-                   Devjani Mishra, Yale University
      /   /                 misdeva@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu
  ___/  _  _   _  ___       diva@minerva.cs.yale.edu    
 /  /   /   | /  /  /
/__/_  /_   |/  /__/_       "What's right is what's left when everything
                            else is wrong." - Robin Williams
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: baindur@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Satyen G Baindur)
Subject: Re: Your Duty as an IA/American
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 19:13:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.034725.2569@wuecl.wustl.edu> mps1@cec1.wustl.edu (Mihir Pramod Shah) writes:
>...  I get very upset when Indians overly criticize other American
>cultures.  Gujaratis on the net will recognize the condescending phrases
>of"
>
>"salow dhoria....salow kalloo.....salow mecla.....salow buchia"
>

Wait. You forgot :



"salow desi !"

People who use derogatory epithets for other ethnic groups are quite 
likely to use one for their own ethnic group as well.

Secondly, the whole phenomenon of epithetization is not unique to Indians, 
although Gujaratis, with their long experience of emigration, seem to have 
evolved vernacular epithets somewhat earlier than other linguistic groups 
from the subcontinent. In the American context, a derogatory epithet has 
been developed for most every recognizably distinct ethnic group there is,
so there is no sense getting upset only about what some Indians might do 
in that regard. Such a selective condemnation is to me a manifestation of 
self-hatred.

While it is fashionable to argue that Indian culture is 'just as racist'
as American or Western culture, in the American context this has limited 
validity. Having come here, the attitudes of most Indians simply reflect 
those of the majority culture.


Satyen

Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: souzaj@woods.ulowell.edu
Subject: Vietnemese language, HELP! Anyone.
Organization: University of Lowell
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 01:23:42 GMT

I am currently teaching ESL and process writing to Vietnemese and Hispanic
students. I have a lot of familiarity with Hispanic language and grammar,
but little knowledge of Vietnemese grammar. I am interested in gaining any
knowledge of Vietnemese grammar structures so that I may more adequately meet
my students needs. Can anyone give me a hand? Book recommendations, anything
would be appreciated. Thanks!         JULES
From: samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: arranged marriages
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:50:21 GMT
Reply-To: samaddar@siemens.com

moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne) writes:

>I was asking was more if Indian guys talk about sex with other Indian
>guys.  I know American guys do.....I know that Indian girls pretty

Yeah. Talk more, do less. Of course they talk. Though I haven't heard
wives being discussed.

Sumitro
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: mps1@cec1.wustl.edu (Mihir Pramod Shah)
Subject: Re: Problems faced by Indian immigrants not common to Chinese or Japanese
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:17:57 GMT

Continuing the discussion,

In reference to religion, the vast majority of Asian Indian immigrants are probably of Hindu
faith, reflecting the demographics of India itself (83% Hindu in India).  Nevertheless, there
are pockets of Sikhs in California, as I have stated.  There are also Catholics from Goa and
Kerala.  Catholic Goans often have Portugese names because of Goa being a Portugese colony
until 1962.  For example, the young conservative author and commentator Dinesh D'Souza is 
a Catholic Goan.

From a geographic standpoint, there is a disproportionate amount of Gujaratis in America.  While only 
40,000,000 or 5% percent of the Indian population live in the state of Gujarat, I have heard around
50% of Asian Indians living in the US are of Gujarati origin.

The reference to Gandhi is an interesting one.  Educated and "cultured" Americans will appreciate
Gandhi's message and influence on the world.  Notable civil rights leaders such as Martin 
Luther King, Jr. got their inspiration from Gandhi.  Of course there are ignorant people who
use the "skinny" image of Gandhi to mock Indians.  I once heard of a comment by someone referring
to my car as the "Gandhimobile".

The Hare Krishna or ISKCON movement is also interesting to analyze.  While there may be some
who extrapolate the Hare Krishna's rather extreme tactics to mainstream Asian Indians, it is important
to note that most ISKCON members or Hare Krishna followers are non-Indians converted from other 
religions such as Christianity.  It has been described as a cult by many if not most religious 
experts.  I don't think many people have used Hare Krishnas as the basis for racism against Indians, but
I'm sure it has happened.  Many Indians themselves (including myself) resent them for their
often pushy and arrogant ways of promoting their message.  I was at the airport (fertile ground for
Hare Krishnas to be found) just yesterday and was approached by a senior citizen dressed in modest
Western clothing.  He asked me "Are you from India?"  I then immediatley noticed the large ID tag with
the letters "ISKCON" printed on it.  Immediately I realized who he was and promptly replied "No" to
his question and tried to ignore him.  While I of course do not hate Hinduism, as my religion (Jainism)
is an offshoot, I do heavily resent Hare Krishnas for the way they propogate their message.  In California
an ISKCON branch was convicted of brainwashing a young convert.  Other branches have been investigated
for corruption, conspiracy, extortion, racketeering, and even murder.  The movement was founded roughly
25 years ago by a prominent Hindu priest.  While the movement was founded in good faith to promote
the religion around the world, it has evolved into, in the eyes of some, a radical fanatical group.

Thank you
Mihir
From: bhattach@molly.jpl.nasa.gov (Bidushi Bhattacharya)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: more on marriage
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:41:09 GMT
Distribution: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA


 samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar) writes:

>in this world for? This over-emphasis on a spouse sharing intersts with
>you can actually contribute to discord because once interests start
>diverging, one starts believing that the marriage is kaput. The primary

Yes, but that is where the challenge is.  Being able to grow together
as a couple and having the strength to deal with and accept change in 
another person makes me stronger too.


>newsgroup :-) If jealousy was not a human emotion, I would say that one could
>even have sexual relations outside marriage, but try to have kids only from
>1 spouse.

> Sumitro


Well, Sumitro, that's certainly an unconventional point of view.  If both
people in the marriage are comfortable with that, then I guess it's okay.
I guess that's what you're saying when you mention jealousy.  From what
I've seen, though, most people make fidelity a basic part of their 
intimate relationship, whether they are married or not.


Bidushi
:-)
From: pghol@ctp.com (Preeti Anissa Gholap)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Arranged Marriages and Wedding Nights...
Date: 10 Nov 92 23:16:26 GMT
Organization: Cambridge Technology Partners

In article <1992Nov9.175353.12060@cirrus.com> venu@cirrus.com (Venu Nayar) writes:
>I can't imagine that in today's world *all* men regardless
>of backgrouund and circumstance support this. For example, I have a sister.

Thats not my claim at all. I wasn't talking about *all* men, i was
merely commenting on the dynamics of arranged marriages. 
I agree it would be ridiculous to say *all* men, *all* pigs, 
*all* whatever. Men, like pigs, have a lot of individuality  :)

Most human beings, whether they like it or not, are "conditioned"
from birth by societal and parental expectations. In your "circles"
women and men might be conditioned to achieve independence. 
In other circles women are conditioned to heed, while men lead.

>I know that this is an individual circumstance, but at least it is more
>*honest* than unsupported generalisations.

Its an "unsupported generalization" to say that the arranged marriage
market in India is a meat market where overwhelmingly,the man's
party has the clout and "buying power" ??  I think not!

It says enough that you think its "impertinent" and "feminist" 
(as if that were an epithet) of me to point out the unequal 
treatment women recieve in India, in most aspects of life.

Please get real (or run the risk of joining the Alok club)

Preeti
From: mba2@Rosie.UH.EDU (Puneet_S)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Heritage and Culture..
Date: 13 Nov 92 16:37:06 GMT
Reply-To: mba2@Rosie.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston

In article <1992Nov12.234002.6082@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, c150-bt@po.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij) writes:
>In article <1992Nov12.151642.21965@menudo.uh.edu> mba2@Jane.UH.EDU writes:
>>I believe Raghvan posted recently on a meeting with an Indian gentlemen
>>from India on life, closeness, etc...  Please refer to that.
>
>Dammit, Jim, I'm Manish, not Raghavan.
>
Apologies Manish, I've been under just a wee bit of stress lately.

>>Dammit Jim, i'm just an engineer not an english major.....
>
>Do you have to be one or the other?

Well no, I just don't spell as well.  You see I only have a 1st grade
education and don't remember how to spell "gib".

>Do you have to be "in" with the Indian crowd, or out with them?

Depends on who is in and who is out.  If i'm "out" do you want to be "out"
or "in".  If I were you, I would choose "in".  Those of who are "out" are
really "out"

>Does being unable to label, drive people nuts?	
>
Well yeah, I got everybody put in four basic categories:
DB's, JAFO's, BABE's and CDF's.  I don't need labels more than that though.

>Manish
>(engineer and English minor)

>
Great, I'll send you my next paper to proof in the infinite amounts of
spare time that you obviously have :)

>   Such wild returns I make to the womb of civilization.  Three weeks
>   a year in the Peleponnese, every bed booked in advance, every meal
>   paid for by vouchers, cautious jaunts in hired Fiats, suitcase
VCD, Puneet (D-Poon) 
 
It's a 106 miles to Chicago
We have a full tank of gas
Half a pack of Cigarettes
It's dark
And we have our shades on.       
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: gchacko@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (George W Chacko)
Subject: Re: Arranged Marriages and Wedding Nights...
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:37:09 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.200705.1972@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:

>> >Alok (unwittingly, no doubt) brought up an important point
>> >that Indian women are "conditioned to expect sex"....just as

>         Why was it unwittingly to bring this point ?

It's 'unwittingly' to ask such a stupid question.

George
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: taravade@shark.ecn.purdue.edu (Kunal N Taravade)
Subject: Re: Bill Cosby and arranged marriages
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:07:07 GMT

bhattach@molly.jpl.nasa.gov (Bidushi Bhattacharya) writes:

>Last night while watching the game, we were flipping through the channels and came across an
>IA talking about her arranged marriage to a guy from India on the show "You Bet Your Life"
>with Bill Cosby.

>He asked her where she met her husband and then did a little play acting where he acted like
>her prospective husband (with a very BAD Indian accent) and had another man act like her
>father who was encouraging her to marry this guy.  While it was funny, it still does kind
>of irk me that Westerners make fun of Indians by portraying them with a goofy singsong accent.                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I don't understand this. Why do you say "goofy singsong accent"? Don't you
think some (infact many) Indians have a very funny accent. Last week I
attended a seminar  series given by several speakers and when the Indian
guy was speaking , I had a very hard time trying to restrain myself from
bursting into a laughing frenzy, so bad and so thick was his accent. (And  to
make matters worse, I was sitting in the first row!!). And this really is
not an isolated incident. I think you should concede that some Indians do 
have an extremely  ridiculous accent, which may have been the result of
the way in which Indian languages are spoken and how syllables are stressed  
etc. But I really don't see why the Americans should not make fun of it.
It is human tendency and is harmless. After all they also make fun of the
British, don't they??

***********************************************************************

Kunal N. Taravade
School of Electrical Engineering
Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN
 



 

>Anyone else catch this show?

>Bidushi :-)

>bhattach@molly.jpl.nasa.gov

Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: shiv@tsp.med.umn.edu (Shiv Prasad)
Subject: Re: Bill Cosby and arranged marriages
Organization: University of Minnesota
Distribution: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 04:01:21 GMT

In article <BHATTACH.92Nov10083220@molly.jpl.nasa.gov> bhattach@molly.jpl.nasa.gov (Bidushi Bhattacharya) writes:
>While it was funny, it still does kind
>of irk me that Westerners make fun of Indians by portraying them with a goofy singsong accent. 
>
>Bidushi :-)
>

How else would one portray the goofiness that is desi?  People often make fun
of the way others speak (New Yorkers, Southerners, Irish, Canadians).  It
could have been orders of magnitude worse if Bill Cosby had put on a dhoti
and started charming a snake.

Shiv

"Y'all come back now, eh."  A farewell from southern Canada.
From: ngupta@nyx.cs.du.edu (ngupta)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re:Linear times in Amerika
Date: 13 Nov 92 14:33:37 GMT
Reply-To: ngupta
Organization: nasa-jsc

In article 8414@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU, c150-bt@po.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij) writes:
 
>First of all, many IA's have been back to India.  The ones I've talked with
>have had mixed impressions, both positive and negative.
>
>Second, criticism of your motherland is a sign that you care for its 
>well-being.  I sound like a parent, but ... jingoistic, blind nationalism
>is empty and dangerous.  One of the U.S.' strengths is its guarantee of
>freedom of speech, which protects actions like Gov. Clinton's protests
>against the Vietnam War.  So did the U.S. "lose face" abroad at his hands?
>In my eyes, this country gained currency for being honest enough with itself
>to allow criticism.	
  
I fully agree with your point.  But don't you think that our(Indians) status is more of a child than a father.  All i intend to say here is that criticism is always welcome but it would be more welcome if it had little streaks of appreciation mixed with it.  We sitting in a develped nation can not be blind to a developing nation like India.  
Your last remark about national unity is very true.  All this talk is only to promote national unity both back home and in the U.S.  We need more confidence in ourselves and the belief that we can stand united.  I strongly believe that if the generation of 60's could not do it, atleast the present generation has both the courage and the strength to achieve the unity we need.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Indian musical equipment in the US ???
From: ahamad@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Date: 11 Nov 92 13:49:26 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services


I am doing this for a friend who dose not have acess to this m/c
  If any of u , Indian classical music fanatics know if there are 
companies that stock Indian musical equipment please send e-mail to the 
adress given below
this person is looking for the " Mrigindham" and the " ghattam" in particular
the ghattam is a baked clay pot, i believe and the mriganda is some kind of
drum played with both hands.

send mail to 
Rose@ardneh.rsl.ukans.edu 
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian