HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (roger maynard)
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:45:59 GMT

>In article <3828@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes:

>Sure.  But, as has already been pointed out Salazar was *not* a platoon
>player.  He played full-time when he was "in", and not at all when somebody
>else (like Scott) was "in".  Most of his at bats, by a considerable margin,
>were against right-handed pitching.

Salazar had 164 AB vs. left and 169 AB vs. right.  True he was not a 
platoon player but he is 36 years old.  His SA was 44 points higher 
than his career average and higher than any year since his rookie season
when he only had 169 AB's.  In other words, last years stats, which
are barely better than average, are a fluke.  If he had had more AB's
his stats would have gone down to normal.

rm

-- 
roger maynard                    
91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
From: jasdzews@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Gary James Jasdzewski)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Sheridan's odds
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:50:52 GMT

Sheridan's odds against winning the pennant and World Series:

     National League--   Pennant      Series

     Cincinnati           7:5          3:1
     Pittsburgh           9:5          4:1
     Atlanta              2:1          5:1
     St. Louis            7:1         15:1
     Montreal            15:1         30:1
     San Diego           18:1         40:1
     New York            20:1         45:1
     Chicago            100:1        250:1
     San Fran           100:1        250:1
     Philadelphia       200:1       1000:1
     Houston            300:1       1500:1
     Los Angeles        500:1       5000:1

     
     
     American League--

     Minnesota            7:5          3:1
     Toronto              9:5          4:1
     Oakland              2:1          5:1
     Baltimore            4:1          8:1
     Chicago             10:1         25:1
     Texas               20:1         50:1
     Milwaukee           50:1        100:1
     Boston              60:1        150:1
     New York           100:1        250:1
     Detroit           2000:1       5000:1
     K C               5000:1      10000:1
     Seattle           5000:1      10000:1
     California   1 million:1  5 million:1
     Cleveland    1 million:1  5 million:1
From: sieferme@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Sieferman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Ode to Jim
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:33:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Jul23.203321.1849
Reply-To: sieferme@u.washington.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle


     There once was a pitcher named Acker,
     Whose career was left with no backer.
     His infamous curve
     Would hang, never swerve
     And produce yet another four-sacker.     

-- 
| Eric Sieferman            |   ___ George Bush                      |
| U. of W., M.C.I.S.        |   ___ Bill Clinton                     |
| sieferme@u.washington.edu |   ___ Root Canal with No Anesthetic    |
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tchan@ucselx.sdsu.edu (t c)
Subject: Jerald Clark IS a STUD and the Pads win
Keywords: 1
Organization: San Diego State University Computing Services
Distribution: all
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 06:55:35 GMT

The Padres beated the Red 2-1 tonight at the Murph.  Jerald Clark made TWO
spetecular plays in the outfield to help Benes beats Greg Swindell for his
8th win of the year.  
Jerald 's first great play was a running, leaping catch of a Bip's long drive.
His second play of the night came when caught a fly ball and made a strong
throw to first to double up the runner on the base.
To all those Clark bashers out their, are you watching the same games I am 
watching? It's time to give the guy the credit he rightfully deserved.
BTW, Ward went 0 for 4 and struck out THREE times last Wed. against the Philies
in case you haven't seen the Pads play for a while. Ward is hitting .174 and he
SUCKS.
From: hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Rickey vs. Vince
Date: 31 Jul 92 18:49:54 GMT
Reply-To: hira@cme.nist.gov
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology

I had a little wager with a buddy of mine. The question was who had more
steals in a single season, Rickey Henderson or Vince Coleman.  I of course
being of sound mind said Rickey. He holds the record, doesn't he. It was
back in the early 80's when the A's were playing Billyball. Could someone
out there please post the stats. 

Thanks,
Ron

BTW, If I win, my buddy has to eat three tacos from Taco Bell, and if 
I lose, I have to sing Karaoke. Now you know why its so critical. :-)
From: daybell@nunki.usc.edu (Donald Daybell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cy Young in the 80's
Date: 31 Jul 1992 03:00:19 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: nunki.usc.edu

In article <4047@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> rrmst3@pitt.edu (Bert  Molinari) writes:
>Could someone post the list of Cy Young winners in the 80's?  I'm trying to
>remember if Lamarr Hoyt won it.

Yup.  He won it in 1983.

Then my beloved Padres traded for him, and he promptly gained a TON of 
weight, got involved with drugs, and disappeared from view, all within the
span of two years!!

Sigh!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
bumper sticker seen on stealth bomber:

"IF YOU CAN READ THIS, THEN WE WASTED 50 BILLION BUCKS."

Donald Daybell		daybell@usc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Twins Baserunning
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:14:41 GMT
Organization: Factors of Ys, Inc.

In article <1992Jul27.173147.17906@news.iastate.edu> sckelm@iastate.edu (Steven C Kelm) writes:

>Following this, Morgan 
>said that he would rather have a lead-off hitter with a lower OBP that could 
>"make things happen" as opposed to a lead-off with a higher OBP that played 
>"station to station".  I think he was referring to Wade Boggs vs. anyone that 
>can run.  If this is what he was referring to then I agree as I don't think 
>that Boggs would be a good lead-off hitter and is better suited to #2 or 3, 
>but in general I don't agree with simply having your fastest man as lead-off, 
>which seems to be what he was saying.  Reaction?

It's hard as hell to "make things happen" from the dugout, and even harder to
make them happen from the dugout when your team has one or two outs on them
already.

A full-time leadoff hitter will get 650 to 700 plate appearances during a 
season.  The difference between a real leadoff-type OBP of .400 and a typical
Aparicio/Coleman/Devon White/Kenny Lofton/whoever OBP of .320 (I'm averaging
pretty wildly here, for illustration's sake) is thus more than 50 times on
base over the course of a season.

Question: how much more likely does it have to be for a "make things happen"
guy to score, as opposed to a "station to station" guy, in order for you to
come out ahead with the "make things happen" guy?  Well, you need enough extra
expected runs in the 220 or so times the "MTH" guy reaches base to make up for
the runs the "STS" guy scores in those extra 50+ times on base.

On a decent team, the STS guy will probably score 20 times in those 50 times
on base, given the meat of the order coming up behind him.  (Corrections to 
this figure welcome; it's an educated guess.)  That means that the "MTH" guy
needs to score an extra 20/220 of the time above what the "STS" guy does, or
about an extra 9% (including extra runs scored from disrupting the defense,
distracting the pitcher, etc.).  

Is this a reasonable expectation?  For Vince Coleman, it just might be.  For
Marquis Grissom or last year's version of Otis Nixon, probably.  But for an
"average" speedster with low OBP, I'd say probably not.

Any more formal analysis of this, or corrections to my guesstimates here, is
welcome.


-- 
        David M. Tate        | "And that inverted Bowl we call The Dome
   dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu   |  Whereunder crawling coop'd we field and bat,
   Edward "Mike" Fitzgerald  |     Lift not your eyes to *it* for help--for it
     from "The Ruthaiyat"    |  Will drop the tow'ring fly upon your hat."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: rc/27 for ss'
From: rrmst3+@pitt.edu (Roberto R Molinari)
Date: 23 Jul 92 19:40:16 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Jul23.154252.5444@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.834.39911@dosgate> "russell tisseman" <russell.tisseman@canrem.com> writes:
>>Maybe not an all star but his defense makes up for this. And anyway I 
>>will take a solid fielding shortstop over a good hitting shortstop who 
>>can't field.
>
>Why?
>

Well its toug to say when the terms "sold" "good" and "can't field" are so
ambiguous", but I'll make the following assumptions: solid = slightly above avg
good = slightly above average  and  can't = way below average).  I'm not so
sure that's less ambiguous, but it anyway.  I'll also assume that the slightly
above average shortstop is way below average at the plate (or "can't hit"
 using russells  terminology).


I assume that the shortstop will have a good number of chances during a game, 
and therefore somebody who is above average defensively (albeit slightly above)
will convert more of those chances to outs than the guy who can't field.  So
since the good fielding ss can convert more chances to outs, he saves his
pitcher pitches and probably some runs as well.  The poor fielding ss makes
is pithcer throw moire pitches and costs is team some runs.  

Now as far as hitting goes, obviously the roles are reversed, the good fielder
produces less runs while the poor fielder produces more.  BUT since the ss
position produces less runs in virtually every lineup, this difference is not
as costly as it would be at a position like first-base.  Granted this may be
due to major leagues team's subscribing to the "ho-hit/good-field" ss theory.
But since the ss has more chances than others on defense, it is important to
have someone who can handle the opportunites.  In fact it is so important that 
most are willing to sacrifice some offense to get a good fielding ss.

bert
-diehard sox fan (red that is)
From: al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Amit Likhyani)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: misc Bucs stuff
Date: 27 Jul 92 19:37:25 GMT
Organization: Junior, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


The canning of Gleaton and Robinson was long overdue.  I would much rather
see prospects get hammered than see those 2 clowns try to get people out.

I liked what I saw of Wagner.  I missed a couple innings, but for a 23 year
old pitcher from AA, he looked pretty good.  Other than the walk to Avery,
I thought his control was pretty good and his off speed stuff seems to be
pretty strong.  I did not see him throw a fastball by anyone though which
kind of worries me.  I guess it does not matter since they sent him back
down.

Despite losing 2 of 3 over the weekend, I think the Pirates 1) played better
than the Braves and 2) got a lot of positives out of the sereies.  Danny
Jackson must have pitched pretty well on Saturday(did not see the game) but
1 hit over 7 innings with 1 walk and 3 K's sounds like 1988 Danny Jackson.  
He has pitched well since the Pirates got him.  Despite Otis Nixon's 
catch that we will see for the next 3 years on Atlanta Braves promos, it was
still clutch of Van Stud to almost go deep off Pena.  Also, it was good
to see Merced get 2 RBI singles(one hitting righty off Avery).  It is a pipe
dream to think that Merced will start hitting right handed at this stage of
his career, but the Pirates do need his bat against righties.

I must admit that Jeff King has done better since being recalled.  To his
credit, he does not seem to be blown away by fastballs ala John Wehner.  He
has a long, looping swing, but it seems like his bat is fast enough for 
anyone heat.  His problem must be hitting breaking pitches.  The reason I
bring this up is: King was right on Wohlers and Avery and I cannot think of
a time where someone just threw 3 fastballs right on by him.  Wehner on the
other hand simply cannot hit good heat.  I would take King over Wehner but
would still like to see either Young or Garcia playing third and both of them
up with the team.  King could play second over Jose Lind anytime and play
first against lefties as long as his little hot streak continues.  I say
send Wehner down and go to 10 pitchers to bring up Young and Garcia.  King
can stay.  He can play 3rd, Short, second and first so if nothing else, he
serves as a utility infielder.  He is not the stiff I made him out to be.
Wehner on the other hand wears a big S on his chest and it does not stand
for Superman.

Obviously, I would rather see someone other than King and Wehner playing
third, but at this stage of the pennant race, I think we are stuck with
Jeff's thunderstick.  If he has to play, I hope he hits.  I am going to
hold
my fingers and think that maybe he can muster the Beuchele .700 OPS from
here on out.  I am beginning to like the Jackson trade more and more.

Wagner got sent down, is there any word on who is going to replace him.  I
will guess Garcia is coming back up.  John Wehner is blatantly overmatched.
I give him another week before he is sent down.
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: RULEBOOK TRIVIA 14
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:43:28 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <64281@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt2807a@prism.gatech.EDU (Benjamin H. Cowan) writes:
>In article <36084@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers) writes:
>>In article <92205.211559IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ryan Robbins) writes:
->>>The catcher gets into position to make the catch, but loses
->>>sight of the ball just before it comes down and bounces off his
						    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
->>>glove, which is over the plate. The ball squirts to the backstop.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
->>>The catcher retrieves the ball and throws it back to the pitcher.

>>There are a couple of issues.  First, was the popup fair or foul?

>>From the description, it sounds like it was a fair ball; 

>  I disagree.  Whenever the ball hits homeplate and goes off into foul 
>territory, this a foul.  In addition, if a ball were come to rest in a batters 
>box or on the plate, this too would be a foul.  So, I'd say that the ball was 
>technically in foul territory when it bounced off of the catcher.  

But it was "over the plate" when touched by the catcher.  The plate is in fair 
territory.  I don't know if the rules on where a ball is judged to be depend on 
the location of the player, rather than just on the location of the ball.

>  Therefore, the batter did indeed have to bat again since the ball was first 
>touched in foul territory.  

This isn't clear; see marked text above.

In addition, the catcher shouldn't be given an 
>error because errors are not scored on plays where the ball was not played on 
>in fair territory.

Now, this isn't the case.  Bungling a foul popup leads to an error.


-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
From: charly@hal.COM (Charly Rhoades)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Braves lose - finally!
Date: 30 Jul 92 02:36:00 GMT
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: renoir.hal.com

In article <3796@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes:
>
>This was a superb three-game series, but I have to say that the quality of
>officiating was pretty miserable.  ...
>
>The most blatant missed call went against the Braves in game 3.  Ron Gant (I
>believe it was) was attempting to steal second, and the Pirates called a
>pitchout.  Don Slaught took the throw at the front of the righty's batters'
>box, and threw Gant out.  It was a flagrant catcher's balk, but no call was
>made.  Slaught was *not* behind the plate when the pitch was released.

I've just returned to net.access (the shakes are tolerable now, thank
you), and I've been *dying* to know what the net.folks thought of the
non-balk calls on Charlie Leibrandt during his game.  I know full well
the folly of trying to extrapolate reality from a TV screen, but *jeez* it
sure looked like his foot was sliding either back behind his hip (implying
a throw to the plate, from what I understand of the common officiating 
interpretations), or actually starting towards homeplate.

Not only did his pickoffs/caught stealings kill at least three baserunners
(in one of those classic low-scoring Braves-Pirates games, that *hurts*!),
after awhile it seemed to totally confuse and demoralize subsequent baserunners.

And whoever pummels Harry Carey should *use* Don Sutton as the blunt instrument.

Charly Rhoades
charly@hal.com

<No .sig yet>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mdc3@sns.bellcore.com (Mike Connelly)
Subject: Official scoring question
Organization: Bellcore, Piscataway, NJ
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 16:45:03 GMT


OK, here's the situation: Clemens pitching, Red Sox lead 1-0 going into
the bottom of the 9th at Detroit.  Phillips and Whitaker reach base,
1st and 2nd, nobody out.  Reardon comes in.  Fryman forces Phillips out
at 3rd but is safe at 1st.  Fielder hits HR, game over, 3-1.

1. Who is the losing pitcher?
2. If Fielder forces Whitaker at 3rd and then Tettleton hits the
   3-run HR, then what?
3. What if Phillips had been on 3rd and on the Fryman play, he is
   thrown out at home (i.e. not a force)?

Thanks!

-- 
 Mike Connelly   ixoye    | On Rutgers! On Red Wings! On Lions and Spartans!
 Bellcore, Piscataway, NJ | Now Pistons! Now Pirates! Now Tigers and Blue "M"!
 ..!bellcore!pyuxd!mdc3   | BEAT bears, bulls, bluedevils, buckeyes, & Boston!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: bowler@athena.mit.edu (Bert Smith)
Subject: Re: NL Stats for 7/20 (ftp site correction)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 02:01:27 GMT

>I have found a place to archive the stats on the internet. It is:
>
>     wuarchives.wustl.edu

This should be   wuarchive.wustl.edu  or ftp.wustl.edu

Thanks to all involved.  I love the accessability of the stats.

-bert




--
%L
From: dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: GMaddux to Test Free Agency Waters
Date: 24 Jul 92 05:06:11 GMT
Organization: Factors of Ys, Inc.

In article <1992Jul23.202814.23407@tamsun.tamu.edu> rlm7638@tamsun.tamu.edu (Jack McKinney) writes:

[Primal scream deleted :-) ]

>     Angels and Ministers of Grace defend us!!! Andre will bat 1.000 in any
>game he plays against the Cubs after what they're doing to him!!!


???

What exactly are the Cubs doing to him?


-- 
        David Tate         |  "Complacencies of the fungo, and late 
  dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu  |   Infield and B.P. in a sunny field
     "Sunday Afternoon"    |   [...]         mingle to dissipate
  Wallace "Vern" Stevens   |   The holy hush of Pastime National..."
From: al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Amit Likhyani)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Danny Jackson
Date: 31 Jul 92 14:43:53 GMT
Organization: Junior, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


Not bad.  3 starts, a 1.29 ERA.  With some support he would be 3-0 instead
of 1-1.  If he keeps pitching like this, the loss of Smiley has been filled.

I read the USA Today and saw that the Pirates are on ESPN tonight, but then
find out Tim Wakefield is making his major league debut.  Oh well.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Info needed
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 00:58:41 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.223809.1882@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> twromero@McRCIM.McGill.EDU (Michael Lin) writes:
>
>the US. There was a fellow by the name of Dave Lum who used to play for
>the Reds in the 70's. I think one of the coaches of the current edition
>Giants is Kim who I believe is Korean, he may have also played pro balls
>but not sure if he ever made it to the Majors.

Wendell Kim is Korean, but I am not sure where he grew up.  Mike Lum (I think
that's the right last name) was Chinese ethnically, but he was born in Hawaii.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
Committee to Elect Johnny Ray as Angels Second Baseman
Committee to Elect Mike Witt as Angels Ace
Committee to Elect Cookie Rojas as Angels Manager
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: niccum@cs.umn.edu (Tom Niccum)
Subject: Re: Indians/Twins Game-9
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 02:11:04 GMT

In <19296@plains.NoDak.edu> sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (Sivaram Hariharan ) writes:

>A costly throwing error by an Indian outfielder helped 
>the Twins in the bottom of the 9th to win this nail
>biter over the Indians. With no one out and with
>Puckett on 2and and Hrbek on 1st, Chilli's fly ball
>was caught at CF and the outfielder instead of throwing
>to 3rd to get the tagging runner, threw to second. The
>score was tied 1-1 at that time. However, Harper drove
>in the winning run.

Did they say this on TV?  I was at the game, and it looked
like Kirby routinely advanced to third on a rather deeply
hit fly ball.  I don't recall anyone reacting with any 
shock at all that Kirby made it to third.  Hmmmm...

>Both Nagy and Smiley had a good outing. Nagy surrendered
>his run in the bottom of the 3rd and the Smiley who
>was cruising in the top of the 9th with 2 outs and no one
>on, pintch hitter Thomas Howard came to the plate and
>hit a gaint of a solo homer to tie the ball-game at 1-1. 
>This should have been a heart cruncher
>for Smiley. Before that Puckett had a jumping catch off the
>centre field wall to rob Bell of extra bases. 

It was quite a gem by Smiley - he really looked good.

>However, the offence won it for him and helped him get his
>10th win(10-4). Nagy took the tough loss and is 11-5.

The Twins really struggled to convert hits into runs - I think
they had 11 hits Monday night, and only scored once.  The game
was notable anyway, since I got my first foul ball in 
25 years of attending baseball games!

>The Twins open up a 4 game series with Boston at Fenway
>tomorrow. Game-9 will be a rematch of game-7, Scott Erickson
>versus Rocket. The Twins have also activated Pitcher Paul Abott
>and Mike Pagliarulo from the minors. Reboulet and Gary Wayne
					^^^^^^
>are being sent back to Portland.

Nope. J.T. Bruett was optioned to Portland, not Reboulet - Wayne
was outrighted (out of options apparently) and needs to
clear waivers.


>S.H
>Win or lose; Twins forever...
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas M. Niccum  | Army High Performance Computing Research Center
niccum@cs.umn.edu | University of Minnesota
        	  | 612-626-8084 or 612-624-7807