From: roholdr@ccu.umanitoba.ca (R Ross Holder Jr)
Subject: Re: UManitoba game applicants: READ!!!
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 01:26:18 GMT


In <BvIAEo.J2n@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> cashman@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Geoff Cashman) writes:

[Stuff deleted.]

>>I am a PLAYER in this upcoming game - I just wanted to clarify the situation
>>here at ccu.umanitoba.ca.  Site administrators here are, to be perfectly
>>frank, inconsistent, discriminatory, and incredibly bureucratic.  

>There are many people who are relatively new to site administrations
>that feel as you do.  I don't know if you are "new" to site administrations
>("new" being less than ~3 years), but this sounds like it.  I, too, had 
>many many gripes with my former site's administrations policies
>(*wave* Hi University at Buffalo!) until I learned more about the how's
>and why's.  I was a royal pain to them until I learned their side of the
>problem. 

In fact, I've been using this particular account for five years.  And, with
all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about.  At one point
I was serving as another user's Student Advocate in a dispute with the
university of an alleged misuse of service.  Never before had I seen an
institution so hell-bent on strong-arm tactics and blackmail!  The university
had its representation present at the hearing - and we did get a chance to
hear "its side of the story".  It was and still is bureaucratic and discrimin-
atory.

>>I don't
>>feel advertising the fact we're running a game would make it at all likely
>>a game would begin and 53 interested parties would be S.O.L. so far as this
>>is concerned.  Here's the facts:

>This may be true, but *not* telling them could result in the game 
>going down prematurely.  Many many players would be furious to know
>they put that much effort into their countries to have it go for naught.
>I have seen deities do this before, and it is fatally flawed reasoning.

By "them" I presume to mean the players.  Isn't it the Diety's job to keep
players informed of game developements?  One thing I didn't understand about
your article is why you posted it.  I don't think Rob was planning on keeping
the matter a secret, was he?  Indeed, not even a secret from site admins here!
We just weren't going to advertise it, that's all.  (It is kinda difficult to
keep anything a secret from site admins.)

>[various apparent "proofs" of UManitoba's inadequacies in site management
> deleted for brievety]

>All the examples you cited may in fact be valid from your point of view.
>They are also easy to support here in r.g.e when the opposing side has
>very little chance of rebuttal.

This is irrelevant.  Since I'm being deliberately vague in raising these points
(as the specifics are confidential) the administration would have to be equally
vague in its "defence".

>We're hearing one side of the coin, and
>as such this isn't telling me much about your site administration.
>I'm not saying they are right, I am saying that there are certainly many
>more factors involved in their actions. 

Yes.  Politics, money - being drunk with power.

>>I've concluded that provided the game doesn't interfere with system operation

>Occupying 5-10% of a CPU for months can be construed as interfering with
>system operation.  

The point was made by another Diety that the game doesn't absorb CPU resources
to this degree.  Of course, not being too learned in the specifics I have
no idea if this is true or not but apparently others don't share this estimate.

>>and uses the resources we've already secured 

>"secured" as in how?

As in secured disk space, and a machine address.

>What if a person is logged into the console of 
>picard (the machine proposed for the game) and starts work on some
>research that requires a great deal of the attention of  the CPU?

I guess things will slow down.  Oh well - it happens not infrequently.

>That person could possibly start tossing processes that were 
>chewing up 1/20th of the CPU into the can.  What exactly do you
>mean by "secured"?  Is this *your* machine?

No.

>Do you have any particular
>rights to it?

I suppose as much as any other student at the University of Manitoba.

>Is it a general user workstation, or does it sit in
>an office? 

Irrelevant.  It is an unreserved Sparcstation which, by convention at this
university, means it may be accessed by the student body.

>I'm sorry, but until the site administration knows that the machine
>will have processes running on it chewing up 5-10% of the cpu for
>months, you haven't "secured" anything.

So what?  The game isn't likely to go down - we've avoided crawling to the
tallest spire in the village and shouting it out for every constucturalist
bureaucrat to hear.  But if it does, I'll resort to the philosophy of
Peter Langston himself who wrote, "It should be remembered that Empire is
merely an interesting pastime; in the vernacular _it's just a game_"
(from the 'info introduction' command or "Introduction to Empire").

[Stuff deleted.]

>Any "experienced" deity willing to be an offsite deity for this game
>would be foolish given the constraints I would have had to have faced.
>Having access to the code is paramount for a deity.  Without it, you can
>not deity.

That may very well be and his offer to help out players is certainly kind.
Fortunately, we have an on-site Diety who will be consulting with other
experienced players and Dieties (even here at U of M) and I'm sure we'll be
okay.  I, as a player, would feel much more comfortable with
Geoff as a Diety...but there aren't exactly a whole lot of games being
organized right now - this is the best we can do for now.  And this new
Diety will gain invaluable experience (with help) that will make possible
that many more games in the future.

I realize Mr. Cashman's whole point in this was to serve as a guideline
for future Dieties to not start Empire games without expressed site approval.
To this end (as a result of the above counter-rebuttal) I maintain this
policy has and will continue to result in next to no Empire games being run.
When site administrators expressly disapprove, then and only then take
the game down (if it isn't taken down for you).  Many sites won't officially
sanction games, but will tolerate them if they don't intefere substantially
with system preformance - whatever that means.  You don't know until you
try.

NOTE:  The opinions I have expressed are not those of the Diety of the
U of Manitoba Empire game - merely my own and my own exclusively as a player
in this campaign.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
R. Ross Holder, Jr.  INTERNET: roholdr@ccu.umanitoba.ca  (Winnipeg, Manitoba)
       Department of Philosophy                The University of Manitoba
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R. Ross Holder, Jr.  INTERNET: roholdr@ccu.umanitoba.ca  (Winnipeg, Manitoba)
       Department of Philosophy                The University of Manitoba
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