From: danaf@bray1b.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.)
Subject: Re: Flame Bait
Reply-To: danaf@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Distribution: mf
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 07:53:43 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.174902.25013@mfltd.co.uk>, nmp@mfltd.co.uk (Nic Percival (x5336)) writes:
|> 
|> I find it interesting to note that there are no comp.sys.atari/pc.advocacy
|> news groups.
|> I think this has less to do with how good these machines are(n't), but
|> perhaps more to do with the mental state of Amiga, Macintosh and Next
|> owners (the advocacy groups that do exist.)
|> Perhaps owners of these machines are so busy congratulating each other on
|> how magic their machines are, that they have failed to notice there are
|> machines that are better, have more support, are cheaper, are more easily
|> upgradeable etc etc.

I take your point, and I'm not going to flame.

I'm going to give you a clear, rational explanation as to why I think you're 
completely wrong! 8)

I *DO* think it has something to do with the mental state of the users of the
aforementioned computers. I think that is a GOOD thing! 

In the Amiga community, our greatest strength IS the community! We're using an
undersupported, ill-represented, badly advertised computer from a company that
couldn't find the leadership to make its way out of a paper bag, and we know 
it. We complain about it - constantly. We complain about it together, decide
what we need to do about it, and make a lot of steps toward a better-working
Amiga community.

This focus, on the users, their interaction, and the community as a whole, 
shows in everything that goes on in the Amiga world. It shows in the hardware-
wonderful companies like Great Valley Products, people really dedicated to
working with the Amiga at the expense of silly things like profits. And many
companies like them, all over the US and Europe.

It shows in the software community - companies like Gold Disk, also staunch
supporters of the Amiga, who really try to HELP the users that, they know, 
have spent THEIR OWN good money to get a piece of software. The difference
between calling Microsoft and calling Gold Disk is so huge it's indescribable
 - and it shows the more personal focus of the Amiga community. Calling Micro-
soft is like calling any other business-service company - they assume that you
didn't buy the software, and that you're getting paid to make the service call,
so they're intent to let you sit on hold all day while they play darts in the
recreation room. On the other side of the coin, GVP is very busy and often
cannot get to the phones. What happens? I leave a message, and they actually
CALL ME BACK - out of state, and usually within 15 minutes! Certainly, they
have less money to throw around on such frivolities than Microsoft does - but
to them, it's worth it to help the community.

It shows in the end-user community as well - why else would the Amiga PD
market be (purely by my own inspection...) the largest one for ANY computer?
Users, unable to find the support they need for the machine they love, write
the programs themselves - and, since they did it only out of necessity, release
those programs into the public domain... free of charge. Only on the PC and 
the MAC could someone concieve of the idea of paying good money for a SCREEN
BLANKER!!! It's absolutely preposterous. Even most of the PC "Public Domain"
market isn't really - it's just commercial software masquerading as freely
distributable. Any program that asks a "Shareware" fee of $30 and up is, in
my book, just commercial software without the fancy box.


So, that's my view. Are we blind, deluded, computer-worshipping freaks? You may
still think so - but I hope not. To me, at least, there's so much more to it
than that. Do we use and like the machine? Yes. But I think the reason for 
c.s.a.a is not the computer itself, but the people that gather around it. We
don't come here just to discuss and advocate the Amiga - we come here to chat
with and laugh with EACH OTHER - as is clearly evidenced by all of the side-
topics that keep popping up here. The advocacy groups are the closes thing to
the old sort of "chat" BBS systems I used to call - silly, unstructured things
where a group of electronic friends, many of whom had never met in person, 
would get together to share in each other's lives.

This is as good a time as any, I guess, to offer my little tribute:

To the crew of the Enterprise & Battlefield BBSs in New York...

To Starbuck, Marco, Bill, Scotty, Ali, and all of the others whose names 
escape me after my 3+ year leave of absence, hello from Frank. It's been a 
long time, and I miss all of you like crazy. If any of you see this, drop me
a line - email is "danaf@rpi.edu". Hope to hear from one of you soon. To all
those I forgot to mention - names are still popping into my head like crazy,
but I don't have time to edit anymore - same applies to you. Let me hear from
you...

[Sorry to all in advocacy.... this message was supposed to be shorter and much
less mushy than it has become... but I grew up with these people.]

|> P.P.S I don't own a PC.

congratulations...

|> P.P.P.S I don't own an ST.

double-congrats

|> P.P.P.P.S There is no P.P.P.P.S

aww, shucks!

|> -- 
|>   Nic Percival      |                               |
|>   Micro Focus       | "Anything is good and useful  |   nmp@mfltd.co.uk
|>   Newbury           |  if it's made of chocolate.." |   (0635) 32646 Ext 5336 
|>   Berks, RG13 1JT   |                               |

-- 
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=======Amiuser============Frank R. Dana, Jr.============Doc Ami=======     
--------My opinions rarely reflect those of any sane person,----------
	   living, dead, or undead... that's gonna CHANGE.