HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gordon Niguma)
Subject: Re: Jose Lind to the Royals for prospects - WHY?
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 02:16:56 GMT

In <1992Nov20.081733@mccall.com> scott@mccall.com (Scott D. Davis) writes:
>Rany writes about the Royals.

>Local news says that Miller maybe moved to 3rd.  KC doesn't
>want to lose his offense or base running.  Herk and Carter
>went out to lunch yesterday and "talked".  On top of all this,
>the Royals are supposedly talking to Ozzie Smith.  

  But what happens to their most talented young player Gregg Jeffries? Will
he go to the outfield? The stat everyone will talk about is his 26 faux pas
at third. Of course he really needs to get settled at a position....

					Gord Niguma
					(fav player: John Olerud)

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dansmith@mcopn2.dseg.ti.com (Dan Smith)
Subject: Re: Keith Mitchell/Olsen ???
Reply-To: dansmith@mcopn2.dseg.ti.com
Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:53:17 GMT

My goodness, I hope the Braves don't make that deal. Was it just me or did
anyone notice the heat that Stanton was throwing in the World Series. Also,
Wohlers looked good and don't forget about Mercker. Hell, even Al Pena may be
back throwing well as a good closer. THE BRAVES DON'T NEED A CLOSER! If they
just use the right people in the right situations, they will be fine. If they
trade anyone of worth for some so-called established closer I will really be
pissed.

It's obvious to me that if they would have used Stanton in place of Reardon in
the WS situations, they would be world champs. Toronto did nothing against
Stanton. Hell, neither did Pittsburgh. Make Stanton your closer! Please don't
weaken the team to acquire unneeded pitching help!

dansmith@mcopn2.dseg.ti.com
From: jmk.admin@mhs.unc.edu (Jim Kirkman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Keith Mitchell ???
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:28:18 GMT
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology

In article <1992Nov19.163928.22839@mksol.dseg.ti.com> dansmith@mcopn2.dseg.ti.com (Dan Smith) writes:
>In article 75445@hydra.gatech.EDU, gt4925b@prism.gatech.EDU (Jason Woodward) writes:
>>In <1992Nov18.213318.6239@cs.tulane.edu> eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu (Dave Bonar) writes:
>>
>>>In article <1992Nov18.192059.26358@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, dansmith@mcopn2.dseg.ti.com (Dan Smith) writes...
>>>> 
>>>>How could the expansion teams pass on Keith Mitchell. As an avid Braves fan,
>>>>he looked great last year (.318 avg on pennant contender) and has good minor
>>>>league credentials. He's young and he has shown he can hit ML pitching. 
>
>>>	He would look great as a outfielder for an expansion team.  But
>>>I never expect he'd end up on one.  I figure that the Brave's three protect
>>>players (after the loss of Neid) were Pete Smith, Merker and Mitchell.  
>>
>>According to the Atlanta Constitution, the Braves protected Pete Smith,
>>Kent Mercker, and Donnie Elliot after round 1.  After round 2, they
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
OK. First thing; who the heck is Donnie Elliot? (not Bill's bro I presume)
:) He certainly never played in Durham (my hometown Class A Bulls) and I
don't recall him from the G'ville roster so what gives on this guy.

Secondly; what has Keith Mitchell done, made payments to people on the 
net. I can't believe all the praise heaped upon him since this draft
thing got going. First pick?!! Cummon guys and girls. Anyone got his stats
from his time in the 'show' in 91? Just OK as I recall, and he flat dis-
appeared in Richmond this year. Granted he's got lots of competition in
the organization but it ain't just the GM's in the two leagues who passed
on him, the scouts obviously haven't been singing his praises either. 
        
>>protected Mark Lemke, Rafeal Belliard, and Charlie Liebrant.  These
>>names seemed to come from Scheurholz himself, not just a rumor.
>>
>>The Marlins said that had Liebrandt been available, they would have 
>>picked him.
>
>If this is true, then the Expansion teams are really bone-heads for passing
>on Caraballo and Mitchell.
>
It's Cabrera, and its funny how little GM's know compared to experts on
the net isn't it?
Lastly, what about Olsen and his status for the draft?

-

>
>
>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: The New Yuck Mets:A Look Ahead
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 14:55:46 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.014509.23297@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
>In article <kf0Mqfm00iUyI7oqoQ@andrew.cmu.edu> Kevin Paul Goldman <kg1i+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>>I'm heartened that the Mets dinally decided to adress a weakness instead
>>of loading up on names. It takes 9 to win a ball game, putting all the
>
>Not sure who you're referring to here.  Are you talking about Fernandez?
>If so, you're *way* off base.  This is *traditional* Mets baseball.
>Picking up an aging player who is overpaid but has a good reputation and
>much less production.  (Eddie Murray, for instance.)  
>
>I'd be surprised if Tony Fernandez has more than one above average year left.  
>He'll probably be about average, both offensively and defensively, next year.
>
>And he's a worse baserunner than Sam Horn.  Because at least Sam Horn is
>*smart enough* to KNOW that he can't take the extra base.  Tony
>Fernandez still thinks this is the mid-80s, when he could get 10+
>triples a year.   But he sucks.  And as for basestealing?  He should
>have one of his relatives killed every time he tries to steal a base.  

as a toronto fan, i can comment at least on the triples part and say
that it is probably accurate. i remember his last year with the jays,
it appeared to many TO fans that he decided he would be Mr. Triple,
regardless of the cost, or game situation. i can remember several times
he was thrown out ridiculously easily at third, sometimes with *nobody
out*.

that was three years ago -- if he is still doing it now (haven't seen
much of him recently), i can imagine the results would be even worse.
and forget about what a guy does in the clubhouse -- this is the best
way to show that one is not a team player in my opinion (assuming
he still does it).

i did remember him being a pretty decent basestealer when he was with
the jays...

--
charles
Xref: sparky rec.sport.baseball:33561 rec.sport.baseball.fantasy:843
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball,rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
Subject: Wild Thing
Date: 23 Nov 92 04:47:01 GMT
Followup-To: rec.sport.baseball
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego


Just wondering what his roto prospects are for next
year.  I gave up Reggie Sanders (at $10) for Harnisch (at $2) 
and Mitch (at $18) and some change, near the end of last season.
I hate him (but have Sid Fernandez and Tewksbury to 
offset the ratio...), but seems like a lock for 30 saves.
However, they left him unprotected through the entire
expansion draft, I heard.

Thanks for any projections...

Dave


-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
From: rinehart@aramis.rutgers.edu (Mark J. Rinehart)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Steve Howe
Date: 20 Nov 92 15:17:36 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1992Nov19.103734.9761@netcom.com> arrow@netcom.com (Les Arrow) writes:

> In article <92323.121833RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu> RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu writes:
> >why should baseball care whether he's a drug addict or not? if convicted
> >of some crime, drug related or not, he should serve whatever sentence
> >the judge sees fit, and then become a free agent.
> 
> Personally I care because it sends a bad message and sets a real bad
> precedent every time he gets a new chance. I don't like what it says
> to our children. 

Oh, hear we go again - jesus, I would worry alot more about what
parents tell their children before I'd worry about what Steve Howe
does with and in *his* life. Everytime this damn argument comes up,
the hair on the back of my neck stands up because I know we're gonna
hear from those zealots who believe that pro athletes OWE something to
the children of this country and the world at large. The reality is pro
athletes DON'T owe a god damn thing to anyone except themselves, and
THEIR children. 

And think about this - what does it say to our children, when a bunch
of feds set up a guy who they know will fall if they push him hard
enough. Then they nail the guy for falling. Give that some thought.
The DEA is the modern day equivalent of the Storm Troopers of the
Third Reich. Think about that. Think about the grand abuses of the
Constitution that happen in the name of this damn war on drugs, which
is turning plenty of innocent people into criminals, under the guise
of ridding our country of the dreaded scourge of drugs. If you look at
the whole picture of how law enforcement is going about fighting this
war, it's a helluva lot scarier than what Steve Howe's reinstatement
says to children. 

> I don't like the fact that the next problem case that comes around will have
> to receive the same treatment. What does this say to Otis Nixon?

Actually, no it doesn't mean that. It means that the next case that
comes around should be judged on the merits of that case - and that
case alone. Who cares what it says to Otis Nixon? He's a big boy, and
should he choose to use drugs, he should be ready for the consequences
of that action. Mr. Howe wasn't busted for using drugs this time. He
was busted for *thinking* about using drugs, thanks to a setup by big
brother DEA.

> Finally, it is real annoying to see baseball give Howe his 8th chance, when
> Pete Rose is still ineligible for the hall of fame. The logic of baseball
> always evades me.
> --Les

Ah, finally a point I agree with you about. Rose has been railroaded
by a bunch of assholes, Mr. Vincent being the biggest of the bunch.
They never claimed they used logic to come to their conclusion. 



Mark
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: The Lies Of E.R.A. With Small Samples
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:02:46 GMT

In article <Bxzr29.9qu@cs.dal.ca> niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gordon Niguma) writes:
>
>            IP  H  BB  SO  2B  3B  HR  H/9  BB/9  K/9  SB-CS  BA  OBA  SLG
>PITCHER A   83 74  38  62   8  0   10  8.0  4.1   6.7   10-4 236  316  357
>PITCHER B   88 80  27  47   8  1    8  8.2  2.8   4.8    2-4 249  314  355
>
>Yet in the ERA category we see that PITCHER A registered a 5.18 ERA while
>PITCHER B filled in at 2.34 ERA. Subtracting the ERA from the statistical
>picture probably makes PITCHER A the better, more powerful pitcher, someone
>you'd rather close with or at least making it a very close decision.
>
>  But as we speak PITCHER A is trying to hang on to a major league job while
>PITCHER B is the closer for another team (Both American League). Anyone
>hazard a guess to who they are?

Well it looks to me like both pitchers deserve a major league job.  Or
at least a continued chance...  The stats for pitcher B are obviously
Steve Olin.  It is obvious why Olin:
  a) Has a low ERA.
  b) Is an effective reliever.

He has a low ERA because he pitches a lot of partial innings, and his
relief (Lilliquist) was excellent this year.

He is an effective reliever because he throws a *ton* of ground balls.
DOUBLE PLAY CITY!!!!

>PITCHER B came in with 60 IR while stranding 49 of them. PITCHER A had  
>only 16 (prorated) IR while stranding 10 of them. So clearly PITCHER B's hits
>hurt his teammates ERA and not only his own.

Huh?  I have trouble seeing how letting 11 of 60 inherited runners
score hurts *anybody*.  I'd call that damned good!

>  Another factor maybe the ability of PITCHER B to produce a groundball which
>his fielders turn to a deuce behind him. This would dramatically affect ERA's.

Well, yes.  Didn't this factor come up in the Erickson/Guzman discussion?

What it comes down to is that all else being equal, groundball/
sinkerball pitchers are better than strikeout/fastball pitchers.
The strikeout pitchers are more consistent, more readily spotted
as being Prospects, and likely to be effective for more years.
But the sinkerball is a superior style as long as it lasts...

-Valentine
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: Mitchell for Charlton and other trades.
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:10:11 GMT

In <1992Nov20.082008.337@netcom.com> arrow@netcom.com (Les Arrow) writes:

>>Wait, I just re-read what you were saying.  And I'm not clear on exactly
>>what it meant.  Are you claiming they should make Greg Briley their
>>leadoff man?  Greg Briley, of the career .320 OBP?  Greg Briley, who put
>>up a .290 OBP last year?  Greg Briley?

>Sure. Briley really hasn't been given a chance to play so I think it is
>unfair to use his .320 career OBP against him yet. 

Greg Briley is 28 years old, with over *1300* career ABs.  He ain't gonna
suddenly start getting on base.

>                                                   Besides, their other
>choices are to go with wasting Edgar Martinez in the #1 spot or resigning 
>Harold Reynolds who doesn't have a much better career OBP and would stifle
>the play of Bret Boone. Of course, they could always go out and get someone,
>but I doubt that will happen.

Well, I was looking at the roster, and you're right that their options
are extremely limited.  But Greg Briley doesn't change that fact.  I'd
put *anyone* besides Briley and their catcher o' the week there.  Heck,
they might as well use Boone.  I doubt he's much better at this stage,
but at least he's young enough to develop.

Putting Greg Briley out there AT ALL, let alone as a leadoff hitter,
sends the signal that "We aren't really serious about winning.  We'll
take one or two extra wins in 1993 (maybe) so that we can continue winning 
70 games a year throughout the 1990s."

Putting Edgar Martinez there is not "wasting" him.  When you've got a
guy that can put up a .400 OBP, it isn't wasting him to lead him off.
If it's his power you're worrying about, don't.  He doesn't have that
much.  This year was clearly a fluke; he's never displayed this much
power before ever.  For his career, he has less power than Rickey, and
you don't see too many people complaining that it's a waste to use him
at leadoff.

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | Mike Mussina 1993 AL Cy Young Winner
niepornt@phoenix.    |------------------------------------ 
   princeton.edu     | "I still believe in a place called Hope."
Clinton/Gore '92.  Don't stop thinking about tomorrow.
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Padre's losses
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:12:04 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

For some reason, the local talk shows have had a bunch
of second guessers complaining about the Padre's losses.

Well, I'm not happy about losing Painter, but everyone
is carping about JERALD CLARK!  I mean, I don't have
anything PERSONAL against him, but he's a 29 year old
"prospect" who put up great minor league numbers playing
in hitter's parks in hitter's leagues and in about 2.5 years
total of major league time has shown that he's a .240 hitter
with bad strikezone judgment and a bit of power, and a bad
defensive player.  Plus, he's going to be making $1MM+ after
arbitration.  No loss.

Painter, on the other hand, I would have pulled back.  I suspect
they protected Rodriguez and Maddux and another pitcher.
He's a top prospect, maybe a year away, with good
power ( 9.0 K/game ) and decent control.

I'm not sure why they like Luis Lopez so much.  He's a .235
hitter in the PCL with no walks nor power.  Even if he's
Ozzie Smith, Brooks Robinson and Mazeroski rolled into one
with the glove, he still doesn't look like he can play at
the major league level.

Fredrickson didn't look like much of a prospect to me, and
I never even considered looking at him as a possible draftee.
Mediocre stats at AA.

All in all, could have been worse.  Could have been better, mind
you; Stillwell is still here.

Current estimates for the lineup:

C  Big Dan Walters
1B McGriff
2B Jeff Gardner
SS Stillwell
3B Sheffield
LF Sherman
CF Jackson
RF Gwynn

UTL Faries/Shipley/Velasquez/Staton/Teufel/Vatcher(?)
C  Lampkin

SP  Hurst, Benes, Harris, Seminara
RP  Hernandez (closer), Maddux, Melendez, Rodriguez, Scott 

with one more pitcher and some other outfield and infield
prospects.

2B, SS and LF are most likely to change - all the rest are
set.

Hurst is iffy due to surgery.  Pitching is pretty deep, though,
with a lot of relatively average long relievers around.
Maddux or Melendez will probably be the first to get starts
if Hurst doesn't make it back.

Dave
-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jmb@oclc.org (James Blight)
Subject: Help sought for Fantasy Baseball Rules
Summary:  looking for rules
Keywords: baseball, fantasy rules
Organization: OCLC Online Computer Library Center, Inc.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:45:53 GMT

Some friends and I are have been organizing fantasy sports leagues in and 
around central Ohio.  I am looking for a set of rules for fantasy baseball 
rules.  I've checked at the local bookstores, but the mags they had did not
give much of an indication how to play.  Anyone play and/or know where I could
get some rules?  I'd like to write one or more computer programs to support our
league next year so the sooner I get some rules the better!  Anyone?

   -Jim B

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: baseggio@deshaw.com (Franco Baseggio)
Subject: Re: creative managing
Summary: Enough!
Organization: D. E. Shaw & Co.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:41:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.180934.5366@asd.com> scott@asd.com (Scott Barman) writes:
>In article <BxtI46.9u5@deshaw.com> baseggio@deshaw.com (Franco Baseggio) writes:
>>What about a lefty-righty reliever combo where they can both play
>>left-field?  Has a pitcher ever been moved to a non-pitching position
>>and then back again?  
>
>I think Whitey Herzog did this once or twice voluntary.
>
>Davey Johnson did this once, but he was forced to after a brawl in
>Cincinatti (Ray Knight vs. Eric Davis) during the 1986 season.  Roger
>McDowell pitched first and, at a point the Reds sent of a left hander,
>Jesse Orosco was brought in from right field.  It was a truly bizzare
>game!

Thank you to everyone who responded.  I don't think we need to see the
same 2 or three games referred to more than 10 or 12 times, though, so
I respectfully ask that no one cite Herzog or that crazy Mets game
anymore.  

Thank you,
  Franco
From: gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Post-Draft Thoughts (was:Reaction to Rockies Draft)
Date: 19 Nov 92 17:40:22 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Somewhere in Hoboken

jeff conine is damn good.

even with miami being a pitcher's park, conine should hit 300 with
 15 taters.

i didn't understand the royals signing joyner instead of promoting
 conine. now that he's proven he's completly back from the
 injury, the 4 yea extension (?) to joyner makes even less
 sence.

and why, oh why, is everyone in new york flipping out about
 yhe yankees losing charlie hayes?  they've got three scenarios.
 1) sign magadan as a free agent, who is better than hayes.
 2) play bam bam there, who is better than hayes.
 3) play velarde there, which is stupid, but isn'tmuch worse than hayes.

why the big deal?

and the ny people all of a sudden decided that carl everett is the
 grea center field prospect.  all i can say is he's not anywhere NEAR
 a centerfield prospect.

he's got as good a chance to be a great center fielder as he
 does to be a great center for the new york knicks or rangers

- bob gaj {from hoboken}
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: baseggio@deshaw.com (Franco Baseggio)
Subject: Re: creative managing
Summary: Another idea
Organization: D. E. Shaw & Co.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:36:06 GMT

What about a lefty-righty reliever combo where they can both play
left-field?  Has a pitcher ever been moved to a non-pitching position
and then back again?  

Franco
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Post Draft Trade Results
Date: 19 Nov 92 22:19:09 GMT
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering

Thus spake rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert):

>In article <1992Nov19.104939.10141@netcom.com> arrow@netcom.com (Les Arrow)  
>writes:

>> >Kevin Reimer to Milwaukee for Dante Bichette

>> Could someone explain the reasoning behind this one for me?

>OK. The Brewers were trying to get rid of Bichette while his market value was  
>up rather than waiting until it went back down again (as in Bill Schroeder's  
>case a few years ago). They were able to find someone impressed by his  
>defense and fooled by his 1992 offensive stats.

On the other hand, for the next two years there will be no use at all for
left-handed fly-ball power hitters in Colorado, given the cavernous dimensions
that Mile High Stadium will have in right field.  So, Bichette (who is a 
pretty good defensive RF) can cover the ground in a way Reimer never could,
even in left, and bats right-handed.

-- 
       David Tate        |"Out of the dugout endlessly swinging,
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | Out of the manager's throat, the sound fundamentals,
 Prof. of Story Problems | Out of the six-month season..."            
 Member ORSA, TIMS, SABR | 	Walt "Lefty" Whitman
From: yankees@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Kenneth M Gelfand)
Subject: Re: creative managing
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:20:00 GMT

In article <1e8tisINNii9@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler) writes...
> 
>In a previous article, baseggio@deshaw.com (Franco Baseggio) says:
> 
>>What about a lefty-righty reliever combo where they can both play
>>left-field?  Has a pitcher ever been moved to a non-pitching position
>>and then back again?  
> 
>     I recall a game in 1986, I think it was, where a few players had been
>thrown out of a game with the Mets because of a browl, so the 10th and
>11th innings were played with Jesse Orosco and ROger McDowell shifting
>between right field and pitcher.  Gary Carter had to play right field.
>I believe it was against the REds, and that the Mets won the game.

       Any Mets fan from 1986 will remember this game as the one where Ray
Knight floored Eric Davis in the tenth inning.  Of course, this game
doesn't go 10 if Dave Parker doesn't let an easy one fall out of his
glove in the ninth.  Kevin Mitchell, known as a street fighter, was 
looking for warm bodies to hit and ended up getting kicked in the ribs
by Mario Soto, I believe.  Orosco and McDowell did play the field, and
Carter played third base since Knight and Mitchell were ejected and 
Hojo had already been used.  The rule governing this situation is that
Orosco and McDowell are only allowed to warm up once each inning, 
meaning that if Orosco pitched to the first, then McDowell the 2nd and
Orosco came back, Jesse could not warm up again.  Despite all this,
the Mets ended up winning the game.





>-- 
>Doug Fowler: dxf12@po.CWRU.edu  : Me, age 4 & now: "Mommys and Daddys & other
>   "Thou shalt love God with all: relatives have to give lots of hugs & love
>thy heart...*and thy neighbor as: & support, 'cause Heaven is just a great
>thyself*." Luke 10:27           : big hug that lasts forever and ever!!!"


						Kenny G

Melido Perez w/run support: Cy Young, 1992

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball