HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bobs@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: the 13th.
Date: 22 Aug 92 10:53:08 GMT
Organization: blah.

In article <1992Aug21.170121.1@vax1.umkc.edu> bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
>The 13th is such a frightening work. I think that this is one of D.S.'s most
>interesting and experimental works. I think the second and third movements
>offer his most colourful orchestration, albeit shades of gray....
>
>Any other thoughts?

Frightening?  Sure it is.  It was my second experience with the music of
Shostakovich.  The public library discarded an LP of the 13th with 
Eugene Ormandy and the PHiladelphia Orchestra and I bought it at their 
book sale for 25 cents.  It was shocked.  Think of it, my first experience
was the First Piano Concerto, my second the 13th Symphony?  I thought the
composer was deranged.  But it is now among my favorites because of that
errie first movment entitled "Babi Yar".

I think one of the reasons that Shostakovich's music has been selling well
lately (notice the number of CDs available now versus the number of LPs
ten years ago) is because the attitude of people in the first world has
changed quite a bit.  It seems people are getting more pessamistic and
less optimistic about the future.  Everyone here knows that DS' music 
is some of the most utterly pessimistic and horriffic stuff written.
The 13th is a prime example of this, perhaps the best available.

-- 
Bob Sutton                        Love, most bitterly and fiercely oppresses
bobs@gnu.ai.mit.edu		  those who fight it than those who offer
al876@cleveland.freenet.edu       their servitude.    -- Ovid (Amores)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder)
Subject: Re: NEW BOOKS ON D.S.
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 20:09:53 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.231232.1@vax1.umkc.edu> bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
>Anyone wanting to read a very thoughtful, critical book on D.S. should get Ian
>Macdonald's THE NEW SHOSTAKOVICH. This book will change your views, for the
>better, on D.S. (not to imply anyone here has a BAD view....)This is the best
>book on D.S. to date. If anyone knows of any new books please tell me!

Can you give the ISBN No., publisher, copyright, etc. data?  I'd like to
find this book.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary Schroeder	                |  Warning: prolonged exposure to this
schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov         |  .sig may cause retinal damage and 
Brookhaven National Laboratory  |  blistering skin rashes. 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: eb11@quads.uchicago.edu (Ernest Barreto)
Subject: Re: Schnittke...
Reply-To: eb11@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:54:41 GMT

In article <1992Aug15.185449.1@vax1.umkc.edu> bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
>Schnittke is a composer that if not for Neeme Jarvi, most Americans would never
>have heard of him.......probably!
>


I know of Schnittke, but who is Neeme Jarvi?

E

Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: bobs@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton)
Subject: Re: Mahler
Organization:  Chaos rules!   
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 10:13:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.231451.1@vax1.umkc.edu> bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
>There is such an obvious Mahlerian influence in D.S.'s Music. Particularly the
>Fourth and Lady MAcbeth. Anyone got any other good examples??

Really?  I know that Mahler, the master orchestrator, had a great influence 
on D.S. in terms of his style of orchestration but it's readily not apparent
to my ears, except that the Fourth is very loud like a lot of what Mahler 
wrote and the very end of the piece is sort of reminscent of Mahler's 
Eighth (my personal favorite, BTW).


-- 
Bob Sutton                        Love, most bitterly and fiercely oppresses
bobs@gnu.ai.mit.edu		  those who fight it than those who offer
al876@cleveland.freenet.edu       their servitude.    -- Ovid (Amores)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: bobs@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton)
Subject: Re: Shostakovich Lovers Unite!
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 21:41:15 GMT


schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder) said:

> Here's a question I have for you all:  Now, I don't listen to
> Shostakovich on a daily basis.  While I am a big fan, the CDs only come
> out of the box every once in a while.  It has a lot to do with mood.  I
> find that I reach subconsciously for them when I'm down or depressed.
> The tragedy that he's able to express through his music is somehow
> comforting in those situations.  What about the rest of you?  Does it
> have anything to do with mood swings?

I used to listen to Shostakovich all the time.  My first experience with
the music of Shostakovich was in high school when I acquired 2 78s of a
3-record set which contained what was then Shostakovich's only piano
concerto.  I thought it was awful at first.  Then I realized that it 
affected my mood.  Then I started getting LPs.  The first was the Tenth
Symphony.  I found that it too has an affect on me.  I've had problems
with chronic depression most of my life but I found that first movement
reflected what I was feeling when I hit the low points.  I later found
that a great deal of his work affected me in the same way.  The one big
exception is the Fourteenth; I don't find much in that piece.  A friend
of mine has subtitled it "9 cats and a hammer" and I have to agree
with him.

And now for something completely different....

A few months ago I bought a CD for only $4.44 that was filed with the
Shostakovich CDs.  It contained the "Songs from Jewish Folk Poetry" but
the main work was the Mose Weinberg "Sixth Symphony."  According to the
liner notes, Shostakovich, after hearing the world premiere, stated that
he wished he had written it.  It sounds like something Shostakovich would
have written although it is different in many ways.  If anyone is curious
I'll supply the numbers for the CD.

-- 
Bob Sutton                        Love, most bitterly and fiercely oppresses
bobs@gnu.ai.mit.edu		  those who fight it than those who offer
al876@cleveland.freenet.edu       their servitude.    -- Ovid (Amores)
From: bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Video Shost.
Date: 21 Aug 92 23:06:39 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City

I haven't seen the D.S. movie in stores. I can make a copy for you if you
want it. Let me know. It Is FANTASTIC.

 Maybe we should all meet somewhere and watch it! I'll bring the popcorn......
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: personal feeling...
From: bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 22:34:21 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City

The Seventh is my personal favorite! I don't think it makes too much impact on 
D.S.'s personal life, though. That was my view in answering the questions....
The Tenth (portrait of Stalin) is cool, but I haven't been seduced by it yet.
I love the 15th! I think it has to be the weirdest of all the cycle.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: more talk!
From: bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 22:29:40 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City

The first because of D.S.'s new international fame....Lady Macbeth because of         
falling out of Stalin's good graces, The Fourth because he realized that he
couldn't get away with it at the time of composition, and the Sixth because it
was the first real bitter symphony he brought to the public.   
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. Muirden [GA])
Subject: Re: more talk!
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 19:30:53 EST

schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder) writes:

>In article <1992Aug14.162940.1@vax1.umkc.edu> bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
>>The first because of D.S.'s new international fame....Lady Macbeth because of         
>>falling out of Stalin's good graces, The Fourth because he realized that he
>>couldn't get away with it at the time of composition, and the Sixth because it
>>was the first real bitter symphony he brought to the public.   

>You feel that the 6th is his first "bitter" symphony released to the
>public.  You mean you don't feel that No.5 is bitter?  I sure do,
>particularly movement 3.

For sure!! A heck of a lot of feeling in there, and it has nothing
to do with that "new man" crap he said it was for the authorities!

GO SHOST! ;-)

We need to get Maxim access to this, and Dmitri Jnr! :-)

>-- 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Gary Schroeder	                |  Warning: prolonged exposure to this
>schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov         |  .sig may cause retinal damage and 
>Brookhaven National Laboratory  |  blistering skin rashes. 

-richard

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard A. Muirden, System Administator, Wesley College :)
E-Mail: ram@lionet.wesley.OZ.AU, s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU, ram@tintern1.?? 
----------------- Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" ---------------------
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: olin@cheme.tn.cornell.edu (Steve Thompson)
Subject: Testimony on video?
Reply-To: olin@cheme.tn.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University School of Chemical Engineering
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 21:22:12 GMT

I heard from someone a few days ago who claims to have seen "Testimony"
on video. My local video store claims that it's not available on video.
Who's right?

Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Thompson, System Mangler   Internet: thompson@cheme.tn.cornell.edu
School of Chemical Engineering   Bitnet:   thompson@crnlchme
Olin Hall, Cornell University    Phone:    (607) 255 5573
Ithaca NY 14853
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Schnittke...
Date: 16 Aug 92 00:54:49 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City

Schnittke is a composer that if not for Neeme Jarvi, most Americans would never
have heard of him.......probably!
From: bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: quartets
Date: 21 Aug 92 23:11:02 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City

I own the Brodsky quartet box set of the quartets. They are rough, but good.

Once D.S. had written a passage for the cello in a quartet to which the cellist
sight reading it for him said: "This passage is very harsh bowed, it would
sound better pizzicato." D.S. responded "I know, leave it bowed."
From: bobs@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: Testimony on video?
Date: 22 Aug 92 00:38:08 GMT
Organization: Vote Anarchy!

In article <1992Aug21.212212.22029@tc.cornell.edu> olin@cheme.tn.cornell.edu writes:
>I heard from someone a few days ago who claims to have seen "Testimony"
>on video. My local video store claims that it's not available on video.
>Who's right?

I am not aware that "Testimony" is available on video.  The copy I have on
video was a off-the-air recording from the local PBS station here in 
Los Angeles.  It was part of PBS' "Great Performances" series about 3 years
ago.  As far as I know, it has not been repeated since it was first 
broadcasted.  The show was heavily hyped here but I think the ratings were
disappointing.

Perhaps you ought to try one of the video mail order shops that sell and 
rent small audience and hard-to-find videos.  If these don't have it then
it probably doesn't exist.

-- 
Bob Sutton                        Love, most bitterly and fiercely oppresses
bobs@gnu.ai.mit.edu		  those who fight it than those who offer
al876@cleveland.freenet.edu       their servitude.    -- Ovid (Amores)
From: bobs@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: What about the Concertos
Date: 21 Aug 92 09:14:07 GMT
Organization: Vote Anarchy!

In article <1992Aug20.133836.345@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson) writes:
>
>Now my question: everyone who has mentioned a favorite
>work so far has mentioned a symphony. Does no-one out there like dds's
>concertos. Has no-one heard them? I guess im jjust biased toward the
>concertos becuase I like the concerto as a form better than the symphony.
>
>Anyway, my favorite shostakovich piece (so far) is the A minor violin
>concerto, Op. 99. This was written during one of the times when dds was
>writing pieces with 'socialist realism', so it was kept secret for a while
>before being released (with an artificially high opus number, I believe
>it was originally op.75). The only recording Ive heard of it features
>Itzhak Perlman and the isreal philharmonic (EMI 7-49814) and it is
>absolutely beautiful. The way the music goes from slow, introspective parts
>into brash, almost absurdist orchestral parts is wonderful and smooth,
>as much a tribute to mr Perlman and the isreal philharmonic as dds.

My first experience with Shostakovich, as mentioned in a previous posting,
was the First Piano Concerto.  It's fun to listen to once in a while (in
fact it was on a Chicago Symphony Orch. concert on the radio tonight).
The Second one is ok.  They made good use of it in "Testimony".  Speaking
of the movie, they made good use of the First Violin Concerto's third 
movement.  That was where I first heard it.  The CD I have of it was a
real cheapie.  It's Bulgarian and the artists are relative unknowns so
I'm not going to mention them.  However, the performances are quite good.
Also on this CD is the First Piano Concerto, another good performance but
there is a minor mistake I spotted.  Shame on them. ;)


-- 
Bob Sutton                        Love, most bitterly and fiercely oppresses
bobs@gnu.ai.mit.edu		  those who fight it than those who offer
al876@cleveland.freenet.edu       their servitude.    -- Ovid (Amores)
From: s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. Muirden [GA])
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: post
Date: 14 Aug 92 21:16:47 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia.

bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu writes:

>I am, of course, answering the easiest ones first! the most
>significant compositions would have to be the first symphony, Lady Macbeth, the
>Fourth Symphony and The Sixth Symphony.

Where do you get this from? Is this just your personal idea?

What about: 

* 7th symphony "Leningrad"

* 10th - surely a masterpiece of the century

* 15th - wonderful

* 8th String Quartet... how personal?!

* Film Score "The Gadfly" and "Hamlet" ?

and others?

Though I do agree with the 1st and 4th symphonies and the 6th is great...

-richard  
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard A. Muirden, System Administator, Wesley College :)
E-Mail: ram@lionet.wesley.OZ.AU, s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU, ram@tintern1.?? 
----------------- Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" ---------------------
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. Muirden [GA])
Subject: Re: personal feeling...
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 19:38:30 EST

schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder) writes:

>In article <1992Aug14.163421.1@vax1.umkc.edu> bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
>>The Seventh is my personal favorite! I don't think it makes too much impact on 
>>D.S.'s personal life, though. That was my view in answering the questions....
>>The Tenth (portrait of Stalin) is cool, but I haven't been seduced by it yet.
>>I love the 15th! I think it has to be the weirdest of all the cycle.

>The 10th is supposed to be a portrait of Stalin?  I've never heard this
>before.  Did you find this comment in liner notes somewhere?  From most
>of the literature that I've read so far, I gathered that at that point
>in his career he was pretty well soured on the Soviet political system.

Oh dear. nononono...

He soured first in '36 with Lady Macbeth, but came back with the 5th
and kept 'em happy, then the 7th and 8th made them happy also. The 9th
pissed stalin off and other work he did at that time (45-48) also. In
'48 there was a decree against both Shostakovich and Prokofiev (in
name) denouncing them publically and severly. Thus his first Violin
concerto (Op. 99) and "From Jewish folk poetry" (Op. 77?) were held
back until after Stalin died in 1953. After Stalin died, Shost wrote
the 10th.. to express his feelings of the whole Stalin era. The second
movement scherzo is a portrait of Stalin himself.. can't you just
see him in that??!!!!

After Stalin died there was a cutural 'melting' of sorts and Shost
was allowed (somewhat) to write his own stuff again (and thus the
above works came out between 53-55ish).

How's that off the top of my head? ;-)


>-- 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Gary Schroeder	                |  Warning: prolonged exposure to this
>schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov         |  .sig may cause retinal damage and 
>Brookhaven National Laboratory  |  blistering skin rashes. 

-richard

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard A. Muirden, System Administator, Wesley College :)
E-Mail: ram@lionet.wesley.OZ.AU, s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU, ram@tintern1.?? 
----------------- Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" ---------------------
From: bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Ugly portrait
Date: 16 Aug 92 21:46:11 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City

not a pretty portrait!
From: bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Snobby answer!
Date: 16 Aug 92 01:00:15 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City

I think the Tenth actually marks the decline of Shostakovich's symphonic
quality. After Stalin died he turned more to chamber music, even in the 14th
and 15th symphonies. Listen to the 10th and compare it to the Eighth, or the
11th or 12th...Don't get me wrong the 10th is great, i think the stalin era
symphonies offer the true essence of the composer.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: acid+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Colby)
Subject: Re: quartets
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 22:19:15 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.171102.1@vax1.umkc.edu> bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
>I own the Brodsky quartet box set of the quartets. They are rough, but good.

Rough?  That's definitely not the word I would use to describe these
performances.  The are quite polished.  I've heard that the Manhattan's
have a grittiness that might better suit some listeners, and some speak
very highly of the Borodin's.

-chris
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. Muirden [GA])
Subject: Re: more talk!
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 19:29:27 EST

bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu writes:

>The first because of D.S.'s new international fame....Lady Macbeth because of         
>falling out of Stalin's good graces, The Fourth because he realized that he
>couldn't get away with it at the time of composition, and the Sixth because it
>was the first real bitter symphony he brought to the public.   

The sixth isn't that bitter... Not like tenth and so on... not to  mention
the fourteenth!! ;-)

Do you count the 2nd movement and most of the 3rd as being bitter...?

The only part I find to be bitter in the 3rd movement is for about 10-20
seconds (out of 6 mins) where there is just orchestral 'noise' as if he
was taking out all his rage on the script...

it's fantastic :-)

True, the first movement is hard going and bitter...

Don't forget though that the 5th was bitter in it's own way :-)

(do we start a "Testominy" (sp?) flame war up now? :-) )

-richard 

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard A. Muirden, System Administator, Wesley College :)
E-Mail: ram@lionet.wesley.OZ.AU, s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU, ram@tintern1.?? 
----------------- Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" ---------------------
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: NEW BOOKS ON D.S.
From: bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 05:12:32 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City

Anyone wanting to read a very thoughtful, critical book on D.S. should get Ian
Macdonald's THE NEW SHOSTAKOVICH. This book will change your views, for the
better, on D.S. (not to imply anyone here has a BAD view....)This is the best
book on D.S. to date. If anyone knows of any new books please tell me!
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: post
From: bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 06:56:13 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City

answers.....Dmitri Dmitrevich (sp.) Shostakovich pet name Mitya...
From: cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: personal feeling...
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:27:17 GMT
    <1992Aug15.180520.9092@bnlux1.bnl.gov>
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

In article <1992Aug15.180520.9092@bnlux1.bnl.gov> schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder) writes:
>In article <1992Aug14.163421.1@vax1.umkc.edu> bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
>>The Seventh is my personal favorite! I don't think it makes too much impact on 
>>D.S.'s personal life, though. That was my view in answering the questions....
>>The Tenth (portrait of Stalin) is cool, but I haven't been seduced by it yet.
>>I love the 15th! I think it has to be the weirdest of all the cycle.
>
>The 10th is supposed to be a portrait of Stalin?  I've never heard this
>before.  Did you find this comment in liner notes somewhere?  From most
>of the literature that I've read so far, I gathered that at that point
>in his career he was pretty well soured on the Soviet political system.
>
>
>-- 
Actually, it's the second movement of the tenth that is supposed to
be a portrait of Stalin.  This was said in Solomon Volkov's book
"Testimony".  Apparently he did not mean it to be flattering.

Charles Yeomans
cyeomans@ms.uky.edu
yeomans@austin.onu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: GIF of Dmitri Shostakovich (circa 1942) [uuencoded]
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 03:04:06 GMT

Very raffish neckware.  Who was his tailor?

If you're taking requests:

	Langgaard	
	Schoenberg
	Scriabin

Thanks.



Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. Muirden [GA])
Subject: Shostakovich's 4th on Chandos (SNO/Jarvi) - detail
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:08:35 EST

For those that were interested, Jarvi's wonderful recording of the
4th symphony on Chandos is on CHAN 8630 (DDD). It's a wonderful
recording and I urge you all to go out and get it, or at least
listen to it!! :-)

(No, I'm not connected in any way with Chandos except for the large
 number of their CD's which speckle my collection :-) )

-richard

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard A. Muirden, System Administator, Wesley College :)
E-Mail: ram@lionet.wesley.OZ.AU, s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU, ram@tintern1.?? 
----------------- Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" ---------------------
From: s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. Muirden [GA])
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: post
Date: 14 Aug 92 22:45:07 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia.

bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu writes:

>schnittke is still alive, but very old. didn't the question say IMPORTANT????
>hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah...........

Well Maxim and Dmitri Jnr are still alive ;-)

-richard

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard A. Muirden, System Administator, Wesley College :)
E-Mail: ram@lionet.wesley.OZ.AU, s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU, ram@tintern1.?? 
----------------- Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" ---------------------
Xref: sparky alt.fan.shostakovich:176 rec.music.classical:11330