HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Beef jerky recipes revisited
From: moynes_r@qis.dofasco.ca (Richard Moynes)
Date: 8 Jan 93 17:13:38 GMT
Organization: Dofasco Inc, Hamilton, Ont. Can.
Nntp-Posting-User: moynes_r

Thanks to everybody who sent me their jerky recipes.  I now have enough that
it will take at least 1 rainforest (Brazillian or British Columbian, take your
pick) worth of cows to try them all out.  If you would like a copy, drop me a 
line and I'll email them or else post them if enough people ask.

Richard
-- 

Richard Moynes                             Not speaking for
moynes_r@qis.dofasco.ca                    Dofasco Inc., Hamilton, Ont.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,misc.consumers
From: lubkin@apollo.hp.com ()
Subject: Emergency light and heat
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:46:07 GMT
Organization: rarely
Followup-To: misc.consumers

I live in Southern New Hampshire in an all-electric rented
house.  With the last big storm, I realized that if the
power goes out and stays out, I'm going to be very cold 
and hungry sitting in the dark.

At the local hardware store, they had a non-electric 
kerosene heater.  So I'm set for heat, although I don't like
having to keep kerosene in my basement.  Alternative ideas
welcome.

Then I went to the local sporting goods stores.  They had
lots of stoves and lamps, which all said OUTDOOR USE ONLY.
(Except for rechargable lanterns that won't last long enough.)

So what do I do?


-- David Lubkin.
   lubkin@apollo.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jagrant@emr1.emr.ca (John Grant)
Subject: suggestions for Wind River Range, Wyoming
Organization: Energy, Mines, and Resources, Ottawa
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 05:13:52 GMT

My plan for July is to spend some time in the Wind River Range - perhaps
a week or so.  I was thinking about some combination of day hikes,
2-day and/or 3-day hikes, but I'm flexible.  I'm a strong solo hiker and
I like to cover a lot of ground (plenty of time to rest when I get
home :)

  1. although every area usually has enough hiking to keep you
     busy for years, quite often the main highlights etc can be
     done in a more fixed time frame.  About how many days would
     it take to cover the main highlights?  What percentage could
     I do in 2 weeks?  Suggestions?

  2. I will get the topo maps later, but is there place I can get
     a hiker's map now? You know, the big picture showing the
     the main trailheads, trails, roads access points etc.

  3. Being so close to the Tetons, is it grizzly habitat or 'just'
     black bears?

  4. Any snow problems by mid-July?

  5. I believe it is the Bridger-Teton national forest, right?  So
     the other thing is - what permits are required for backcountry?
     Available at major access points or do I have to write ahead
     to some remote point?  Reservations required or recommended?

  6. What are the heavy use areas (worth going despite the crowds
     or better to avoid entirely)?

  Any other information.  A phone number and/or address for the
  ranger hq for B-T NF would probably be useful.
-- 
John A. Grant						jagrant@emr1.emr.ca
Airborne Geophysics
Geological Survey of Canada, Ottawa
From: craigc@hotcity.COM (Craig Cutright)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Fabric Supplier for GoreTex and Polartec Wanted
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:09:28 PST
Organization: BBS

Try the RAINSHED in Oregon.......I dont have the address handy buy they do sell
all of malden mills fabrics (Polartec included).  If no one else posts the
address I will look it up and post it for you.  As for Gortex....I dont believe
that it is readily available to the public.  Gortex wants to control the
quality of the products that are made with their fabrics.  You might find
someone who will sell you some....there is always someone out there trying to
make a buck.  Good luck!
 
Craig A. Cutright
CraigC@Hotcity.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Subject: Re: Anyone climb Mt. Washington recently?
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:46:37 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1993Jan11.215710.9564@tessi.com> allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren) writes:
>trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>
>>In article <1993Jan8.053606.184@midway.uchicago.edu> bejohnst@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>>
>>>If winter climbs were attempted only by experinced people,
>>>there'd be no experienced people.
>
>>If people didn't go out and get themselves killed, how would the rest
>>of us define the limits?
>
>This is getting way out of hand.

Hmm.  That's what I said, climbing the other day.
-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
From: mfactor@bbn.com (Mara Factor)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: London area backcountry possibilities wanted
Date: 7 Jan 93 14:21:40 GMT
Reply-To: mfactor@bbn.com (Mara Factor)
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

I'm going to be on vacation in London from 4 Feb. to 14 Feb
and would appreciate hearing about hiking opportunities 
within fairly easy reach of London.  (I would like to get
out of the city for a couple of days if possible but do not
want to spend more than a day to get there.)

I hike year round in the White Mountains in New England but
have little idea what kinds of terrain there is in the area
and what weather to be prepared for in February.

Any information regarding hiking in the area as well as any
information on specific hikes, or organizations to contact
with regards to hiking would be appreciated.  Also, I am
interested in hearing about any references (books, trail
guides, maps, etc) that would help me get going.

[I just found out 1.5 hours ago that I'm going so I haven't
yet had the opportunity to get to the local map store or
outfitter to see what they have available.  I plan to look 
for references there but it is nice to have some guidance
from people experienced with a particular area.]

Thank you,

Mara
mfactor@bbn.com
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Bay Area Skiing?
Date: 7 Jan 1993 08:59:58 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1993Jan6.214730.9227@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>,
stanley@mercedes.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Kendall S. Stanley) writes:
>I realize that I am nuts, but I have always wanted to ski in the
>bay area just to say that I have done it.  Every third year or so
>one gets reports of 4 to 6 inches at around 2000 to 3000 feet which
>makes me think that it should be possible if one got up early
>enough in the morning to ski on roads that had not yet been destroyed
>by cars.  Part of the challenge would be getting there.  Many roads get
>closed at the first dusting.  I know that is the case for Mt. Hamilton
>and Mt. Diablo.
>
>Has anyone done this?  Surely there has been a ski descent of Mt.
>Hamilton and Mt. Diablo - hardly a technical challenge, but an oddity
>nonetheless.

Back in the 70's the Chronicale ran a photo of someone skiing down
Castro Street in San Francisco.  About ever 20 years or so there is
a light snowfall down to sea level.  I don't know about Diablo or
Hamilton, but the day it gets down close to see level you won't find
me at work.  My ambition is to tlemark down from the the "Big Dish"
on the hill above Stanford.  Then the rest of my life i can say "I
skiied Stanford".
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Subject: Re: Sierra Club Outings
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu
Organization: BSU - Data Center
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:22:59 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.175810.6216@alw.nih.gov>, degraff@helix.nih.gov writes:
|>In article <1if0efINNrg2@cronkite.Central.Sun.COM>
|>pstryjew@colsun.Central.Sun.COM (Pete Stryjewski) writes:
|>>
|>>Does anyone have any experiences (good/bad) with the Sierra Club Outings 
|>>that they could share?  Some of the trips seem to reasonably priced and
|>exciting.
|>>
|>
|>I have done 4 National backpack trips in the Sierras over the last 5
|>years, and
    [snip]
|>the route the trip will  take.  Many of the trips use a packer assist
|>the first
                                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|>day to carry most of the commissary, so that the first day does not
|>become a
|>death march, even if it is all uphill.  
   [more snip]

It's not really a critical issue, but, my only encounter with the
Sierra club was following their pack train up a trail ... I'm afeard
that I eventually gave up trying not to step in horse shit because I
noticed I was watching the trail far more than enjoying the country.
At least the horses weren't wearing lycra.  :)

--
Greg Jahn Boise State Univ.| "Spoils of war are spoils of war,
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu /|  says junk man, owner of the junk. 
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    /|  Grafitti man's got something to
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  /|  say. "   - John Trudell

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.photo
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: backpacking with medium format cameras
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 21:40:43 GMT

In article <C0Jpsy.9tx@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:

>I'm adding a bracket to my ski pole to let it do double duty as a monopod

Galen Rowell mentions tying 2 ski poles together with their straps
to produce a "bipod" for stabilizing his Nikons.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jrichard@sol.ulowell.edu (John 'MacGyver' Richardson)
Subject: Re: Anyone climb Mt. Washington recently?
Organization: /usr/ug/1993/jrichard/.organization
	<1993Jan5.235229.25539@tessi.com> <NICHAEL.93Jan7090301@kariba.bbn.com>
	<lkohagINNm85@news.bbn.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 19:38:12 GMT


My .02 cents...

The latest AMC Appalachia includes a story of a man who died of "sever
cold" (one of many on the mountain) on a Mt. Washington winter climb.  
It is not to be attempted without proper gear and even with proper gear 
it can be risky.  Winter climbs should be attempted by _experienced_ 
people only!  

BTW: I can speak from experience.  I got hypothermia on Mt. Washington
about 15 years ago.  And we were prepared for a winter climb (in the fall).


John Richardson                |  "the more we live, the more we learn, 
jrichard@cs.ulowell.edu        |   the more we know... for each of us the road
jrichard@dragon.ulowell.edu    |   is clear, and life has just begun" -- Yes
From: gcfrank@sdrc.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Sierra Club Outings
Date: 7 Jan 93 18:57:39 GMT
Reply-To: gcfrank@sdrc.com
Distribution: na


In article <1993Jan6.174003.19716@news.uiowa.edu>, jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:
|>From article <1if0efINNrg2@cronkite.Central.Sun.COM>,
|>by pstryjew@colsun.Central.Sun.COM (Pete Stryjewski):
|>> 
|>> Does anyone have any experiences (good/bad) with the Sierra Club Outings 
|>> that they could share?
|>
|>I've never done any of the nationally run outings, but one of the members
|>of our local group has run some of them, and she runs local outings on
|>occasion as well.
|>

I've been on three: cross country skiing at Copper Harbor, Michigan;
backpacking in Rocky Mountain N.P. in Colorado; canoeing in Algonquin P.P.
in Ontario. The first two were quite nice and I recommend them although
the Copper Harbor trip is much more expensive than when I went ($600 now
vs. $400 then). In addition to the scenery the food, logistics and the
company helped make these nice trips. 

The Algonquin canoe trip was mediocre. We spent three days crossing 
Opeongo lake which was full of power boats (not exactly a wilderness
experience). For $20CN/person we could have had a water taxi ferry us
across. The leader was quite strong. He stopped twice a day; once for
lunch and once for dinner. We had oatmeal for breakfast 5 of 7 days. 

The moral of the story is to talk to the leader and find out about 
everything. 

|>> Some of the trips seem to reasonably priced and exciting.
|>
|>Yes, and the local trips are even less expensive!
|>> 

Our local trips are also cheap. On the other hand we don't supply any
gear or food. 

|>> The local chapter is mostly 40+ (nothing wrong with that) and don't have
|>> a lot in common with late-20yr olds.
|>

So's the Miami Group/Ohio Chapter and so were the three national trips.
The people were still good company. They've got lots of good stories.


[deleted description of Iowa Chapter]

|>
|>				Doug Jones
|>				jones@cs.uiowa.edu
|>				Chair, Iowa City Area Group, Sierra Club
|>
-Frank
From: wae@aero.org (William A. Emanuelsen)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Fees for hiking in LA County?
Date: 8 Jan 1993 18:12:39 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: aerospace.aero.org

Check out the newsgroup la.general, if you get it at your site.  The
way I understand it so far is that it applies only to
county-maintained trails, and they are supposed to be marked.  The
cost is $23/year.  National- or city-maintained trails are supposed to
remain free of this charge.  There is still much confusion about how this is
really going to work, even among the people implementing it.

I rarely use county trails anyway, but I wouldn't mind paying the fee
if I did use them.  What bothers me is that the fee is assessed only
on an annual basis.  If I have a family of four who likes to take a
Thanksgiving hike (i.e. once a year), it will cost $92 for that one
hike.  Seems like there ought to be a daily permit as well.  I also
understand that this fee is in addition to any park entrance fee.

It also wouldn't be fun to drive 2 hours to get to a new trail
you've heard about, only to find when you get there that you need a
permit, which is only available from a county office 50 miles away,
which is not open on weekends.  At least the free trail permits
required for many national areas are often available at the
trail-head.

Overall, I'm really not too upset about the fee (it was voted in on
the last ballot in November), but why pay when you can hike for free? 
There are a lot of national and city areas in the Los Angeles area.
-- 
William A. Emanuelsen      Rich or poor, it's nice to have money.
wae@aerospace.aero.org
From: pepin@usc.edu (Jim Pepin)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Fees for hiking in LA County?
Date: 8 Jan 1993 10:55:25 -0800
Organization: University Computing Services
Distribution: world
Reply-To: pepin@usc.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: viper.usc.edu

There was a big article in the LA times day before yesterday about the fees. 
There are some interesting problems with them at the boundaries of forest 
service land and city land. It seems in some places you would have to pay a fee
to access the forest service land from common access points (like near JPL in 
pasadena) where there is a ranger station and the forest service has trail 
system there is a couple hundred feet long section of trail the county has 
posted a sign on. I talked to a ranger on Jan 1 and the said they were still 
trying to work out with the county this sort of issue. They feel its not 
acceptable for the county to 'gate' the angeles national forest trail system. 

In this particular area its even more interesting as Pasadena 'owns' one side 
of the arroyo seco, JPL deeded space for the horse trail that the county 
wants to be paid for in return for Pasadena land for a parking lot on the 
other side. 

Jim Pepin
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Altitude sickness preparation
Date: 10 Jan 1993 10:11:12 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1993Jan10.014048.46271@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>,
jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>My wife had pretty bad reaction to altitude (at around 8500) and I'm
>trying to remember what is best in preparation.  I never have problems
>with altitude up to 14000 or so (played bagpipes all though high
>school :) so I didn't pay much attention to that stuff in the past.
>
>She wants to know routines that will help here prepare best.  Like
>whether swimming is better than running...

Generally, the more aerobic the better.  My guess would be that
running would have the added benefit of strengthening the legs
although running stairs (like on bleachers) might help even more.
However, nothing except having time to aclimate will work
completely.  Charles Hustons's rule of thumb is 1 day per thousand
feet of elevation gain.  Obviously, if you are at sea level and want
to go to 14k on a one week vacation that advice doesn't help much.

Personally, I've found from my trips in the Sierra Nevada that
aclimation persists for a while.  That is you develop it quicker
than you loose it.  This means that I can build up some aclimation
just from frequent weekend trips throughout the summer.

Note that I have no formal expertise on this topic other than
personal experience.

Marc Whitney
as.msw@forsythe.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Best kind of stove for Turkey?
From: me@stile.stonemarche.org (Mark Eklof)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 00:18:20 -0500
Organization: Stonemarche Network Cop
X-Newsreader: Arn V1.00

In article <1in8c4INNef7@shelley.u.washington.edu>, bishopj@botany.washington.edu writes:
> ... cooking with the X-GK was like cooking with a rocket engine.   
> With practice I was eventually able to avoid burning spaghetti in a full pot
> of water.  The noise was also comparable to a rocket engine. 
> ... I wouldn't take my X-GK along  
> again unless ... c) I discovered the secret method of controlling the flame.

	Getting an X-G/K to simmer is tricky.  Most of my backcountry cooking
involves boiling water, and little else, so I don't have that much practice.
The few times I have wanted to simmer things, though, I've found one of
Collin Fletcher's suggestions useful.  He recommended (in
_The_Complete_Walker_III_) the use of a wire gauze pad with asbestos on it.
I picked one up at the chem-lab section of the local hobby shop for about
$1.50.  I get the flame as low as I can, then put the wire gauze between the
flame and the pot.  It seems to help somewhat, though again, I've had few
occasions to try it.

Mark
-- 
Mark D. Eklof
Cos Grange
Brookline, New Hampshire, USA

me@stile.stonemarche.org

Sometimes, I wonder if it's me.
From: wae@aero.org (William A. Emanuelsen)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Experience of Montana ?
Date: 11 Jan 1993 22:55:39 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aerospace.aero.org

In article <1993Jan11.180008.16871@eua.ericsson.se> tobbe@erix.ericsson.se (Torbj|rn T|rnkvist) writes:
>I would like to hear some experiences from the State 
>of Montana, since I've just been reading a book about 
>the state in question (quite interesting).
>For example places you would recommend to visit etc...

Glacier National Park!
My experience is probably a bit skewed, though.  I was there a few
years ago for what were probably the only three sunny-days-in-a-row
that year.   Absolutely breathtaking alpine scenery.  Lots of good
trails, wildlife.  High, deep-blue glacier-fed lakes and streams with
lots of fish.  
Careful though, summer lasts only about six weeks, from the middle of
July through August.  Traffic along the Going-to-the-Sun road can be
heavy during tourist season.

-- 
William A. Emanuelsen      Rich or poor, it's nice to have money.
wae@aerospace.aero.org
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
From: allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren)
Subject: Re: Anyone climb Mt. Washington recently?
Organization: Test Systems Strategies, Inc., Beaverton, Oregon
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:57:10 GMT

trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:

>In article <1993Jan8.053606.184@midway.uchicago.edu> bejohnst@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>
>>If winter climbs were attempted only by experinced people,
>>there'd be no experienced people.

>Great quote!  Neither would there be a well-defined notion of stupidity.
>If people didn't go out and get themselves killed, how would the rest
>of us define the limits?

>A question for the net:  If one stays completely within ones limits, is
>there any adventure?

This is getting way out of hand.

The original poster posted in a rather casual manner.  I replied with a post
that, judging from the way in which the message was posted (net news does not
allow for intonation, voice inflection, etc.), it *appeared* that she and her
friends *might* be casual climbers, and therefore I advised against attempting
the climb at this time of year.

My mistake was corrected by others who gave good advice about where to 
possibly attempt a summit climb, what to wear, what weather conditions to
expect (if that's possible with Mt. Washington), etc.

Enough people HAVE been killed so that more knowledge could be obtained, and
out here in the West, people are still being killed by the elements, from those
who are somewhat-to-well prepared, along with the inexperienced people who have
no idea what they *might* be facing.

One doesn't need to stay within their limits, BUT, people *should* at least be
prepared for what might befall them in their outdoor endeavors.  Not a week
goes by here in Portland, OR that I don't read about people who are rescued
because either they simply didn't prepare adequately or they didn't prepare for
natural catastrophe's.

allen
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Bay Area Skiing?
Date: 12 Jan 93 20:45:30 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <16276@auspex-gw.auspex.com> daryl@bovill.auspex.com (Daryl Starr) writes:
|Seems to me that both of you have been beaten to skiing the Bay Area first.
|Wasn't there a grass skiing fad a few years back. I remember reading about
|it and also saw grass skiing in a commercial. Wonder if it's still happening
|here?

There used to be a grass skiing hill at the golf course in Sunol.  It doesn't 
look like it has been used in a few years.  

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: matt@tahiti.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Vulcan)
Subject: Re: Superstition Mts/Naive Desert Hike
Keywords: Desert, Arizona, Superstition Mts
Organization: AMEX CS90S Project, Phx, Az
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 17:31:40 GMT


Interesting, isn't it?  No one would normally think that rain in the Phoenix area could do
that, but it does.  One word of caution, when you return -- follow common-sense precautions
before you go.  Every year we seem to lose about three hikers who wander off into the
Superstitions and get hopelessly lost.

Let someone know WHICH trail you'll take; TAKE LOTS OF WATER.  In the winter time the
humidity is 3 or 4%.  It may not be hot, but you'll still need the water.

Have fun, it is beautiful!


Matt Meola
matt@amex-trs.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: sex@chopin.udel.edu (Martin Solo Schamis)
Subject: Re: Fabric Supplier for GoreTex and Polartec Wanted
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 06:25:15 GMT

For information on Goretex, you can contact the company that manufactures 
it.  The company and phone number is...

WL Gore, Inc.
Elkton, MD ????? (any help with zip codes?)

1-800-431-GORE

give them a call - they'll be happy to help I am sure.

Martin
sex@brahms.udel.edu

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: ellen@mail.boi.hp.com (Ellen Osinski)
Subject: Re: binary elevation maps
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:38:29 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Richard Ottolini (stgprao@st.unocal.COM) wrote:
: 
: Samples of various formats are at anonymous ftp spectrum.xerox.com cd pub/map.
: They may have an area you are interested in.  Otherwise pay big bucks to get it
: from the government.

When I try to ftp I get the following error:
ftp: spectrum.xerox.com: Host name lookup failure

    -ellen
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry