HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gsmith@lauren.uucp (Gene W. Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Date: 11 Oct 92 16:53:11 GMT
Organization: IWR, University of Heidelberg, Germany

In article <1992Oct11.000827.22450@wam.umd.edu> lovegod@wam.umd.edu
(Donald Andrew Agarrat) writes:

>I sure wish soc.motss could be a more positive influence in my life ...

You may be expecting too much of it.  You might be able to learn how to
respond to an insult with another insult, rather than with a baseball
bat. If you are looking for something to reduce your level of rage, or
something on which to vent it, I don't think this group is a good
choice.

>Just the elitist airs some of us put on is enough to turn plenty of
>Black or other people of color away because they just don't want to  
>hear White people squawking over who is the best icon and who is more  
>well-known and who should be remembered the longest.

To state the obvious: this isn't soc.motss.black.  Naturally, there
will be a lot of white people on the group.  Your assumption that
discussions such as the icon one can never be of interest to anyone who
isn't white is dubious anyway.  I've met Madonna-groupies who weren't
white, and have been friendly with several black people who were 
pointy-headed intellectuals as much as any of the rest of us. 

It is senseless to ask intellectuals of whatever race to refrain from
being what they are. You won't get any cooperation on this issue, nor
is there any reason why you should.  You might adopt a policy of
ignoring what doesn't interest you. The usual recipe for not liking a
particular discussion is to place it in a KILL file; if a discussion
seems to conform to what is normative on this group then why not just
let it be if it doesn't interest you?

>I propose that if soc.motss is, in the eternal words of James Brown  
>(almost), A White Man's World, another newsgroup should exist that
>recognizes   ALL gay people - NOT just the more intellectual, NOT just
>the (supposedly) more   articulate, and definitely NOT just focusing on
>the desires of ONE race of   people.  A newsgroup that allows people to
>say something stupid once in a while without being relentlessly
>clobbered into never posting anything ever again.

Think for a moment what this proposal would look like on news.groups.
If you suggest "soc.motss.dumb", for stuff which is less articulate or
less intellectual, you will be laughed at and derided. An that's just
counting the people who are nice about it. If you suggest
"soc.motss.non_white", you might do better but you will have to be very
convincing about it to get many votes.  

-- 
     Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/IWR/Ruprecht-Karls University 
               gsmith@kalliope.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: OCA liability
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 20:44:17 GMT

> buckmr@vccsouth15.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>> entropy@world.std.com (The Entropic one) writes:

>> Please give the Boston Globe a call at 1-800-622-6631 and ask them to
>> start reporting on the events in Oregon.
>Anyone have 800 numbers for the New York Times, Washington Post or Los Angeles
>Times?

No.  Try 1-800-555-1212.  Some local news bureaux in San
Francisco are:

          Chicago Sun-Times:      415/421-5510
          Los Angeles Times:      415/274-9000
          New York Times:         415/362-3912
          Wall Street Journal:    415/986-6886
          USA Today:              415/956-6234
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: The Lonster (was: Re: Oregon on Today Show this morning)
Date: 10 Oct 92 19:32:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.Bvx7Lz.AKn
Organization: Open Communications Forum

rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes of the Lonster:
>This was the first time I'd seen the guy on TV...what a creep!

Yep, Lon Mabon is not exactly what you'd call "photogenic".  Even his
fellow creep Scott Lively cleans up better than the Lonster, who always
manages to look as if he'd just eaten something that was about to return
for an encore.

Heard a great parody of him yesterday at Coming Out Day to the tune of
"How the Grinch Stole Christmas":

   And it was said that his sphinchter was *three* *sizes* too small.

-- 
Brent Capps                          | 
bcapps@agora.rain.com (gay stuff)    | I can't view my employer from here
bcapps@atlastele.com (telecom stuff) |
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Date: 11 Oct 92 04:19:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Oct11.041906.3741
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

at the risk of sounding like the clueless white boy I might very well
be, could someone explain to me how soc.motss is a particularly white
forum?

I can understand it with things like the discussion of "cultural
icons" - most of the people we've been talking about are specifically
white icons. But these discussions are not the majority of motss.

Trying to understand,
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                   Nothing is true; everything is permitted
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: CABAL stuff
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:52:39 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, coren@osf.org (Robert Coren) wrote:
>In article <6OCT92.18240579@enh.nist.gov>, aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
>> *Record cold* 65F
>> last night!  Brrrrrrrr!
> 
>Oh, right. As someone who hasn't had the sense to close his summer
>house yet (in October in New England!), I can say that I'd be quite
>delighted to see daytime *highs* of 65F (actually due over the next
>couple of days). Try getting up at 6AM when the outdoor temperature is
>36F, and the indoor temperature is not much higher.

And then getting out of the shower...

Our house has no insulation and no heat.  The temperature outdoors is the
temperature indoors.  Three Christmases ago we brought the orchids in
to save them from the freeze.  Didn't work, they got frost burns inside
the house.

And the floors are hardwood and tile.  Ever see cats walk on tiptoe?
<clickety> <clackety> <clickety> <clackety> <clickety> <clackety>, etc.

ObMotss:  Snuggling with a loved one to keep warm.

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
From: markm@ogicse.cse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Intel Job Opening (Nomad, read this)
Date: 16 Oct 92 23:59:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.44249
Distribution: na
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR

Okay, for once I will be optimistic...

What with Measure 9 apparantly going down (as will Bush), I don't feel
bad about posting this one.

Intel iPGNS (Intel Product Group Network Services) has a job opening
for a network administrator.  Knowledge of major networking protocols
and experience with complicated (at times f*cked up) network
architectures is a must.  This person will have primary responsibility
for network operations on the Hawthorne Farms (Hillsboro Oregon)
campus.  This includes manufacturing as well as several advanced
research labs (read: networking nightmare).

Just a note: We are converting to UTP and fiber optics in something we
like to call iWIRE.  It is more involved than that, but you can see
that the target environment isn't archaic.  Additionally, expect ISDN,
Switch/56, SMDS, T1, T3, etc. as well as MAN links around the greater
Beaverton/Hillboro area and WAN links to California, Ireland, Isreal,
and the Far East to play an important role.

I should have the job description in my grubby little hands soon.  If
you get the job, you get to work with the yummiest leather dude at the
Oregon site and also get to be yelled at by me on occasion (as well as
yell at me when I trash the net).

If this sounds like *too* much fun, drop me some email and I will pass
along the info.  If sending resumes, please send postscript.

--mark
--
Mark Morrissey           One Hatred to rule them all.  One Hatred to find them.
markm@cse.ogi.edu        One Hatred to bring them all and in the darkness bind
                         them.  In the land of Bigotry where the Shadows lie.
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Joan-Rhymes (was Re: Sean)
Date: 12 Oct 92 21:46:20 GMT
Organization: NIST

In article <1992Oct10.023217.24844@netcom.com> jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
>I don't know about Jess, but I can't, and typically don't see a need to.
>"Pin" vs. "pen" is more problematic. 

Daivd can't tell the difference between "pull" and "pool."
Northeastern Pennsylvania.

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: 100 years of homosexuality
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 19:50:03 GMT

In article <1b5lkfINNnbr@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

>Halperin's own second footnote
>informs us that the word "homosexualitaet", which is what Chaddock
>rendered in English as "homosexuality", first appeared in print
>in 1869.  So what I want to know is this:  does something not
>exist until there's a word for it *in* *English*?

It might not exist in a particular culture until the proper vocabulary
with which to describe it can be introduced to that culture.

>This s-c stuff *really* gets on my nerves.

Mine, too.  But that's because, like anything, it can be taken to
extremes.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "You are just naive and repressed because
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /  penis envy is here and it's now and it's
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  all around you." -- Neal C. Wickham
From: tachyon@cats.ucsc.edu (Tane' Tachyon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sian (Sean (Culture (Ah, Fashion.)))
Date: 12 Oct 92 02:24:46 GMT
Organization: Tachyon Labs
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


In article <shanvanvucht@kaa.gr.osf.org> emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:
>Anyway Sian is a Welsh name, not an Irish, and it is pronounced
>"shan".  (Although the daughter of a friend-of-a-friend was called
>"see-an" until someone finally enlightened her at the age of about 12.
>Talk about traumatic.)  I don't know what accents might be in Sian,
>though I have a vague notion that there is a circumflex rather than an
>acute accent on one of the vowels.

I forwarded a copy of this message to a certain notable Sian 
in Massachusetts, but it was not enough to tempt her into 
forsaking her work and taking up Usenet.  Anyway, she pronounces
it like "Shawn."

-- 
 ____________________________________________________________________________
|tachyon@deeptht.armory.com  \        /__    One of the Bivariant Illuminati |
|      tachyon@ucscb.ucsc.edu  \    /   /  Happy National Coming-Out Day!    |
|         tachyon@cats.ucsc.com  \/   /  So many quotes, so little space.    |
 ----------------------------------\/----------------------------------------
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ella (was Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.)
Date: 15 Oct 92 00:05:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: PacBell.1992Oct15.000541.25788
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco

> richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel) writes:
>Ken Richards writes:
>
>>So, has anyone been to a Ella concert recently?
>
>Twice in the last several years.  She's certainly showing her age and
>health problems, but other than taking a few songs to warm up, I still
>enjoyed her immensely.  I must confess to a bit of weeping after the
>shows when her assistant had to help her off the stage; to witness such
>a contrast of power and helplessness is rather moving.

I felt the same at an Artur Rubenstein concert in London,
some 20 years ago, when he was literally carried on and
offstage, but played the "Emperor" as if he'd just discovered
it.

>Sarah Vaughn, on the other hand, can reduce me to puddles just with
>certain vocal inflections.  I don't know what it is about her voice
>(and am not interested in qualifying it anyway); she is Quite Something.
>For everyday make-me-feel-all-melancholy, Billie is both the poison and
>the cure. 

Sarah Vaughan (two "a's" please) can do no wrong as far as
I'm concerned (except die prematurely :-() -- I have to rake
up the conceptual chestnut leaves after her "April in Paris" 
(if you'll pardon the seasonal dissonance!).  Now that she's
gone, I'm trying to appreciate Carmen MacRae more...
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 13:43:52 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.223503.27820@seq.uncwil.edu> drollin@seq.uncwil.edu (David A. Rollins) writes:
>I have friends of all different races, and I and my friends never give
>our racial differences a thought. 

Then you're the shallow twit that was suggested by your
previous post.  Pretending that racial differences don't
exist is a symptom of liberal magnanimity and represents an
obvious failure to address the issues.  Start by respecting
differences, not ignoring them.

Donald is complaining about (among other things) black
invisibility.  You're reinforcing it.
--
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: M A D O N N A
Date: 9 Oct 1992 01:50:41 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Oct8.224027.3665@spdcc.com> 
rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

> 	So, what is the lifetime of each successive "it" girl?
> Most of them died before they fell out of the public eye, though
> certainly Mae West kept it going for much longer. 

The career of the It Girl herself, Clara Bow, lasted about 8 years
before she slid into schizophrenia.  I suppose I should note for
our friend from Apple with the mind of an accountant that Clara Bow 
received more fan mail (according to the Postmaster of Los Angeles, 
she received 33,727 fan letters in May 1928) than any other star in 
Hollywood history.

Dietrich's active film career lasted about 30 years (1923-1952),
but then she appeared all over the world in her nightclub act
until the mid 1970s.  Do you think Madonna will still be jiggling 
her titties before appreciative audiences all over the world 40 years 
from now?  I, for one, can't wait to see the 70 year old Madonna 
reprise, for the 100,000th time, Express Yourself or Open Your Heart 
or Justify My Love or Like a Virgin.  

Arne
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: M A D O N N A
Date: 12 Oct 92 01:10:42 GMT
Organization: insert anything here

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

>>Who cares about young people in this regard?

>Tsk.

	Oops!  Mea culpa --- a zillion pardons.

BBC
From: foucault@netcom.com (Howard Arthur Faye)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Bonjour, Tristero (Was Re: Traditional Family Values)
Date: 16 Oct 92 00:25:00 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Oct15.053323.28422@news.Hawaii.Edu> johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan) writes:
>In article <1992Oct11.140422.25680@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
>dyarman@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Don Yarman) writes:
>
>>Donald L Yarman       _______/|/|   dyarman@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
>>                        (_)  \|\|   Yarman.1@osu.edu
>
>A mute in the trumpet?  Is my memory failing me, or is this an
>anti-cabalistic statement?
>
Are members of the 'Cabal' also supporters of the house of Thurn und Taxis?
I've been contending with a power greater than I realised!

-- 
Howard Arthur Faye * Panglossian Acres * Box 7 * Littlerock, CA   93543
                         Fax: 805.944.5958
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jbaron@dirac.ssc.gov (Jeff Baron)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Why you people alienate so many...
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:12:23 GMT
Reply-To: jbaron@dirac.ssc.gov (Jeff Baron)
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Lab

John Dorrance writes:

- My mistake was I saw the casual banter going on around here and assumed
- I could just jump right in; that's not true. This is like any other
- social situation in a way; it's a group of people, and you can't just
- *POOF!!!* be an accepted member. If you wade in unannounced, people's
- toes will get stepped on. Cabal? Sure, whatever you want to call it.
- But it's not wrong, it's just the way people work. (Of course, I'm
- saying this from the perspective of someone who's been through all of
- that and emerged okay...)

It's just how people work, huh?  You've been pretty active 
on the racism front lately, so tell me, John, when white 
people hang around and resent black people from intruding 
on *their* turf, is that also just how people work?

The fact that people *work* a particular way does not excuse
or justify behavior that may (perhaps) be repugnant.  I'm
surprised that you are so quick to claim it so in this case.

You sound like the stereotypical well-to-do African American,
say Clarence Thomas, for example.  "I made it, so you can too!"

Jeff
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:27:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct7.172727.2270
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Oct7.162332.29969@PacBell.COM> rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
>They hired *Gloria Swanson* to play America's Sweetheart???!!!

This is apropos of nothing, but did I ever tell you about my 6th grade nun,
Sister Ralph (really), a tough cookie from South Boston who used to call all
the girls "Gloria Swanson" and all the boys "Oscar Wilde", as in "Stop right
there, Oscar Wilde, where the hell do you think you're going?" or "Take that
gum out of your mouth, Gloria Swanson!"

And they wonder how I ended up the way I did...

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: trussell@cwis.unomaha.edu (Tim Russell)
Subject: Re: Elton John donating all royalties?
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 04:35:54 GMT

mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser) writes:

>I heard a radio news report (WGST, Atlanta) at 9:15 PM last night
>that Elton John had announced he was donating all future royalties
>from all his recordings to AIDS research.

    Yep, saw him give the statement, including beginning with the phrase
"As a gay man, ..." on MTV's news show the other day.  It was quite cool.

--
   Tim Russell                 Omaha, NE              trussell@unomaha.edu
      "Who can doubt that pleasure is the only goal of a reasoned life?"
                                                   -- Epicurus
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: cornell@inoc.dl.nec.com (Cornell Kinderknecht)
Subject: Re: Vanessa Redgrave to Play a Lesbian!
Reply-To: cornell@syl.dl.nec.com
Organization: Not very orgainized
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 16:32:38 GMT


>I guess the obvious question raised by the subject line 
>is whether or not she's taking volunteers.

:-)

Wasn't it Vanessa Redgrave who played a lesbian in some TV movie
with Mariette (sp?) Hartley a few years back?
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus)
Subject: Sian (Sean (Culture (Ah, Fashion.)))
Organization: Open Software Foundation Research Institute, Grenoble
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 13:31:52 GMT

coren@osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
>                       '                                          ' 
>Some women are called Sian, aren't they? I seem to remember that Sian
>Phillips played Livia in _I, Claudius_.  (Ouch, those accents are way
>too high. And I'm not sure they're over the right vowel, either.) How
>is this pronounced?

I generally use a comma for acute accents, although except for capital
letters (such as the only accented letter in my name) it is still too
high.  Anyway Sian is a Welsh name, not an Irish, and it is pronounced
"shan".  (Although the daughter of a friend-of-a-friend was called
"see-an" until someone finally enlightened her at the age of about 12.
Talk about traumatic.)  I don't know what accents might be in Sian,
though I have a vague notion that there is a circumflex rather than an
acute accent on one of the vowels.

,
Eamonn, incoherently
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.
Date: 10 Oct 92 02:35:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct10.023552.29978
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Oct10.011549.18951@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>>I find quite amusing the claim that cultural icons must be
>>timeless.  If this is true, who are the cultural icons from the 1800's?
>Oh nobody much.  Just Beethoven, Pushkin, Liszt, Dostoevsky,
>and a smattering of painters.  Inconsequential stuff like that.

EVen if you allow for my quibbling that simple genius is not quite enough
for the title, I'd say that Pushkin was precisely such a cultural icon,
and indeed still is, even in the ruins of the Empire.
-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: By popular demand..
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 01:42:40 GMT

norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris) writes:

>-jeff [who, having tried and failed to drive a wedge between Arne and
>JNS, has been flirting with JD and trying to tempt Jess and is hoping
>for an invitation to be a camp counselor... or maybe cook (are there
>any new-and-exciting pork recipes in Madison?)]

Jeff darling, I should guess none of us will need any counsel
in camp (we're pretty good at it already); this retreat (nay,
*advance*!) seems geared more towards different forms of training.
But never fear, I can leave home some clothing and stow you away
in my *BIG* *BLACK* *NYLON* *BAG*.

--
John Dorrance * Alleged Homosexual/Shameless Hussy * thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

			Dark. Handsome. 6 feet tall.
		  31 flavors? I believe he's got 'em all!
Newsgroups: soc.motss