From: davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami)
Subject: Re: Prisoners or Hostages?
Organization: Technion, Israel Inst. of Technology
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 18:48:45 GMT

In article <22373@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.183800.26495@discus.technion.ac.il> davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami) writes:
>>
>> In article <1992Sep9.183521.21105@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
>> >
>> >I have been thinking about the recent release of hundreds of
>> >Palestinians from Israeli prisons by Rabin's government. The US media
>> >have portrayed this action as an example of Rabin's goodwill; a positive
>> >gesture. I ask: why were these people in prison? If they are criminals,
>> >why are they being released? If they are not criminals, why are they not
>> >all released?
>>
>> As I understand it, they are all convicted criminals who served 2/3+
>> of their time and do not have blood (Arab or Jew) on their hands.
>
>That really isn't saying much, since the definition of "crime" and
>"criminal" is entirely up to the whims of the Israeli occupation forces.

Well, this is why I think these gestures are useless - the Arabs and
their supporters will never suffice in them - until Rabin will not 
release personally the most vicious "Black Hawk" or whatever, and kiss
his hands they'll claim that the gestures are not enough.

Do you suggest that there are no criminals (of the usual sort) in the 
territories, have you never heard of the "slaughter-houses for Israeli
cars" in the Gaza strip?

"Ten lahem Ezba vehem rozim et kol hayad" [ Give them a finger and
they'll want all your hand]

>
>> Throwing stones and diturbing oreder is not political offense and might
>> be punished. There are many strictly criminal cases in the WB&G I GUess.
>
>There *are* no "political" offenses according to Israeli definition, so
>everyone their military officers masquerading as judges convict is, ipso
>facto, a "criminal" being "punished".  For example, the mere verbal
>expression of support for the PLO is a "crime".  In Israel too, by the
>way.
>
>> Begin himslef caused this British regulation "Nazi" regulaion. He
>> was of course exaggerating.
>
>I am absolutely certain that your evaluation of such a statement as
>constituting ("of course") an exaggeration couldn't possibly be colored
>by the fact that the Defense Regulations are now being used by Israel.
>
>Well, those who characterised them as Nazi (in fact, it was claimed that
>"Even in Nazi Germany there were no such laws", believe it or not), were
>major leaders of the pre-state Zionist leadership, including the person
>who went on to become Israel's first Government Legal Advisor -- Yaakov
>Shimshon Shapira.  *He* gave no indication that he thought that
>characterization was in any way exaggerated -- but for some reason,
>Israel continued to make use of these very same regulations even under
>his tenure.  It must be that "Nazi regulations" promptly lose their Nazi
>flavor upon adoption by a Jewish state.

I think that Begin and Shapira exagerrated - the laws are quite harsh
but they never had the slightest resemblance to what the Nazis did to
the Jews (that what the implication refers too) while it is certainly 
possible that the formal code inside of the Reich was less horrible in
theory it was certainly VASTLY more horrible in practice.

I think that the use of the regulations both by the British and by
Isarel is in no way remote of the situation in WWII Germany. These 
are exagerations otherwise the World would have dismantle Israel
eralier than we could have noticed.

David.


>--
>Yigal Arens        "You'd think [Bush] was running for First Lady instead
>USC/ISI            of for President."     Bill Clinton, commenting on GOP
>arens@isi.edu      attacks on his wife.   LA Times, 8/20.


-- 
=============================================================================
  David Ben-Ami (irc: bigdav)      |   "I can resist anything but Temptation"
  s2780369@Techst02.Technion.Ac.Il |       Oscar Wilde
  davidba@Carmel.Technion.Ac.Il  davidba@Moav.Techniona.Ac.Il