HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: Cost Differences???
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 16:51:49 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.065620.11525@pixel.kodak.com> lund@ssd.kodak.com (Nate Lund) writes:
>>But to each his own.  I won't call a karate instructor "Master" in any language,
>>despite the degree of respect I have for him, how learned he is, or how much
>>he can beat me up.  In late 20th century America, I can't see why I have to call
>>a karate instructor "master" while I call a PhD professor "Bob."  But to each his
>>own.

>In late 20th century America, it is proper to call a PhD "doctor".

However, if you are the student of such a doctor (or _any_ graduate-level
student, for that matter), you usually are on a first name-basis with
the professor. By analogy, why should an advanced student call his 
instructor "master" or any similar title? I've heard it suggested that
the use of the title (in addition to other formalities) creates a
feeling of respect and symbolic importance. However, I'd prefer such
feelings to be created by _real_ rather than artificial factors.

>Keep in mind that "karate master" is more along the lines of "master carpenter",
>rather than "my master".

My old bagua teacher refuses to call himself (and is a little uncomfortable
being called) a "master" of the art, because he hasn't yet produced a
"masterpiece" (E.g. a major contribution of some sort, along the lines
of a PhD thesis, I guess.) I'm not sure simply having a black belt is
suffiecient to qualify one as a "master craftsman."

                                                 Frank Crary
                                                 CU Boulder
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: (what should I carry ?)
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:43:15 GMT
Organization: Twilight Zone

In article <717443327snx@ietech.demon.co.uk> nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst") writes:
>
>
>A clear sign that airport security people don't read 18th and 19th
>century manuals on English Cane Fighting.  If they did they would
>not allow anybody into the airport with a light walking cane.
>
	If they really knew anything about naked kill methods (improvised 
	weapons) I don't think anyone would be able to get on to an airplane 
	with a shred of clothing on their backs.  Could make for rather 
	interesting flights though. 

	-Andy V.
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: (what should I carry ?)
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:58:23 GMT
	<1992Sep22.221437.3948@walter.cray.com> <3766@unisql.UUCP>
	<10856@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> <23956@sybase.sybase.com>
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: thorick@sybase.com's message of 29 Sep 92 00:51:06 GMT


In article <23956@sybase.sybase.com> thorick@sybase.com (Thorick Chow) writes:

   >In article <3766@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
   >>	I have a 1 inch long pocketknife on my keychain.  This summer
   >>a guard made me beg for 5 minutes before allowing me to board while in
   >>possession of this dangerous weapon.
   >

   Last month my son and I attempted to get through security with a
   'Super Soaker'.  You know, one of those white and neon-green
   pump water-guns...  we were told that we couldn't bring that 'gun';
   on as carry-on...   all cries of 'but it's a squirt gun' were for
   naught...

   sheeshh.. wasn't like we were flying to Boston or something
   (where possession of a 'super soaker' is apparently against the law)...


Thorick, I really thought better of you.  A few months ago some 
snot-nosed little pissant got into a rant about how super soakers 
are illegal in Boston and next thing you know they'll be telling 
you what color Jockeys to wear.  This is about what one would 
expect from some fool who never read anything but the National
Enquirer, but I did think better of you.  If you check your facts
you will find that Super Soakers are not and never have been illegal
to possess or carry in Boston.  

Of course, if it was your purpose to throw some gasoline on the 
NRA fire, I suppose you will have succeeded admirably.


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans)
Subject: Re: Cost Differences???
    <13378@texsun.Central.Sun.COM> <BvIB9G.K4w@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 13:08:11 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

In article <BvIB9G.K4w@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) writes:
>In article <13378@texsun.Central.Sun.COM> dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM writes:
>>

edited for television]

It seems to me that honorifics such as "master", "sensei", etc. are not 
tiles that one can adopt for oneself; rather, they are given by other
people.  I find it a bit jarring to be an ad for a do* and see someone billing
himself as "sensei" or " master".

Charles Yeomans
cyeomans@ms.uky.edu
yeomans@austin.onu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: guay@fraser.sfu.ca (Tim Guay)
Subject: Re: (what should I carry ?) CueDo
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 14:49:24 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.133755.11174@PA.dec.com> stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark) writes:
>
>fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes...
>> 
>>I just realized when I read this, that the spear thrust I've seen 
>>taught with bagua/xingyi/taiji weapons sets is extremely similar
>>to a good 9 Ball break. The bridge is quite different, but the rest
>>is the same...
>
>I was taught the underhand thrust for an AikiJo kata using the analogy
>of a pool break also, although the movement was much wider and the
>body mechaniscs of course much different.

Great we have the basics we need to create a new North American martial art.
CueDo - the way of the pool cue. We can have the following forms: cue, bridge,
rack, and ball toss. :-) Or better yet we can call it HapCueDO, the way of
the harmonious cue.

===============================================================================
  Ta Ta For Now      | Beware of the demon Wizzy Wig, the father of 
        Tim          | typographic lies... 
===============================================================================
From: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Cost Differences???
Date: 2 Oct 92 18:27:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.BvIB9G.K4w
Organization: Indiana University

In article <13378@texsun.Central.Sun.COM> dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM writes:
>
>In either case, you pay a fee for a service, the service being the
>education you receive.  The purpose of an exam is to validate that
>the lesson has been learned, as well as to validate that the lesson
>has been properly taught.  It also serves as a pre-qualification for
>the student to enter the next round.  Thus, the test is not the goal,
>it's merely the measuring of the real goal... an education.

In the schools I have been to, you don't have to take the test and
promote.  Think of promotion as gaining accreditation (sp?)in the
style; which will allow you to prove to others that you are a
legitimate instructor.  Compare this to LSATs, SATs, GREs, etc.  Or
what about the hidden expenses of normal graduation (cap and gown; 
printing up copies of your dissertation for the school's benefit,
etc.).  On top of this, you are generally tested when you are ready
(few failures) and are charged only once for the test even if you
do fail.  In college you are tested at one particular time, whether
you are ready or not.  If you flunk, you take the course again, paying
the instructor again.  There is little motivation for the instructor
to make sure you get it right the first time around (unlike in a
dojo).

Now, a lot of m.a. schools don't teach you if you don't test, or they
give inferior instruction.  I still don't see a problem.  Instructors
want students that are dedicated to the art; they often judge
dedication on the basis of who is willing to fork over the dough, but
there are almost always "charity" cases in the dojo, people who clean up
or do repair work, etc. in exchange for lessons.

>Charging a separate test fee is like charging a separate fee for electricity,
>heating, supplies, posters, etc. used in the school.

That's included in your monthly tuition fee, just as your tuition at 
college includes paying for equipment upgrades for departments you
are not a part of and repairing dorm floors that have been trashed 
(even if you are Mr. Clean).  

As far as your aversion to calling an instructor, "Master", I pretty 
much agree.  The most formal I get is calling someone "Fukuda-sensei"
if I really admire them, or referring to them as "Master Do" when
they are not around.  When they are around, I call them "ma'am" and
"sir." 

Dakin
burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: LGOODIN@WORLDBANK.ORG (Laura Goodin)
Subject: Re: Model Mugging (long)
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts
Organization: World Bank
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 19:09:29 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.145520.5507@srg.srg.af.mil>, schan@birch.srg.af.mil
(Stephen Chan x4485) wrote:
> >So, now you need a backup shooter to lay down covering fire while
> >you gas up.  Welcome to D.C.
> 
> 	I just stay out of eastern DC.
> 

Don't kid yourself.  I live, work, and train in Northwest DC and it's not
much better most places all over town.  Remember the World Bank staffer's
kid
who was shot while doing yardwork?  In one of the "best" parts of town? 
For
no reason whatsoever?

-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-
lgoodin@worldbank.org            |  Only by attempting the absurd can we
Laura E. Goodin                  |  achieve the impossible.
-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: (what should I carry ?)
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:29:17 GMT

In article <92272.132223GMS@psuvm.psu.edu> Gerry Santoro - CAC/PSU <GMS@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>This discussion is very interesting.  I'd like to offer a few points:
>
>- With respect to concerts -- I can understand why they take weapons away
>  just as I can understand why you would want to carry one.  My best advice
>  here is to study a good empty-hand style.  You can't always have a weapon
>  with you.  

	But that's the beauty of empty hand ability.  You're ALWAYS armed.

	-Andy V.
From: exudms@exu.ericsson.se (New Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: (what should I carry ?)
Summary: with or without
Keywords: clothes
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:49:02 GMT
Reply-To: exudms@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson in North America.
              The opinions expressed are strictly those of the user and
              not necessarily those of Ericsson.

In article 11689@pixel.kodak.com, lund@ssd.kodak.com (Nate Lund) writes:
->In article <1992Sep29.154315.15937@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
->>	If they really knew anything about naked kill methods (improvised 
->>	weapons) I don't think anyone would be able to get on to an airplane 
->>	with a shred of clothing on their backs.  Could make for rather 
->>	interesting flights though. 
->>
->>	-Andy V.
->
->Well, I waited for a while, but no one else jumped on this one, so...
->
->If they really knew anything about _naked_ kill methods, they wouldn't
->allow _anyone_ on the plane.  Who needs clothes?  :-)
->
->Sorry, I tried to resist.
->
->Nate

Well, it keeps ~*things*~ out of the way in those close encounters!

/New Dave
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: chungy2@aix.rpi.edu (Yau Felix Chung)
Subject: Re: ma movies and books
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 05:22:27 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.203502.1@ducvax.auburn.edu> mautzcl@ducvax.auburn.edu writes:
>I was just wondering if anyone out there in MA-land can recommend any good
>martial arts movies - not the cheesy translated stuff, but any with decent
>plots and a good representation of ma styles.  I have seen all the recent
>movies - J.C. Van Damme's library, Speakman's (which i thought was great),
>Norris', and Brandon Lee's Showdown in Little Tokyo.
>
>Any decent ones that I missed?  I don't like the 'Don the Dragon Wilson' 
>pictures, I find them kind of cheesy...
>
>also, any good ma-oriented fiction novels out there?  I have seen the
>trashing of Lustbader's works on the net, but are there any good novels
>that are a little more realistic?
>
>(I guess the name LUSTbader says it all, anyway...)
>
>any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>btw, anybody heard the rumor that J.C. Van Damme, Brandon Lee, and Norris 
>might be getting together to do a movie?  I read about it in some ma
>magazine, probably black belt... it's either made for tv, or movie theatre
>only...i dont remember.
>
>   

J.C. Van Damme and Brandon Lee?......Would that be a good combination?
I would prefer B. Lee and J. Speakman together in a movie.

Anyway, I think "Best of the Best" was a good movie with plot and some
decent fighting scenes.

Just my $0.02 cents worth.

-F.

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jwalters@stsci.edu
Subject: Re: Nike Style Tai Chi?
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 03:39:59 GMT

In article <1992Oct06.183135.3237@srg.srg.af.mil>, schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485) writes:
> 	Dave, you're just so knave.

Uh, I think you meant naive.

> 
> 	Qi (the correct japanese spelling) is not something which you throw

Gee, and I thought the Japanese used kanji.  :-)

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: Model Mugging (long)
Organization: National Institutes of Health, Bethesda
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:38:46 GMT

schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485) writes:
>
>	Here in the DC area, there was a person who killed someone for $15 -
>more alarming, there was a person willing to GET KILLED for $15. I guess he
>figured that no reasonable person would kill him for such a pathetic amount
>of money.
>	They were playing by 2 different sets of rules.
>
>	I don't know if anyone "won" this encounter - but I can tell you who
>lost.

If this is the same case I'm thinking of, it happened in a gas
station where I used to buy gas.  The guy paid for his gas,
turned away from the cashier with a few bills in hand (just like
I've done a thousand times) and started back to his car.  The
gunman who had been sitting on a nearby wall got up, walked over
and told him to "give it up."  The guy didn't give it up.
Instead, he struggled with the gunman who shot him several
times, picked up the money and made off.  The cashier chose that
very instant to go to the bathroom and therefore didn't see a
thing.

I don't think this guy stood there and told himself he was
willing to get killed for $15.  I think he was probably confused
to find himself at gunpoint in an otherwise extremely ordinary
situation, and he just went into denial.  No, you are not
getting my money. No, you are not going to shoot me.  No, no,
no.  Could have been me.  Could have been you.

So, now you need a backup shooter to lay down covering fire while
you gas up.  Welcome to D.C.
--
Richard A. Drury
drury@helix.nih.gov
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: (what should I carry ?)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 19:06:37 GMT

>In article <717443327snx@ietech.demon.co.uk> nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst") writes:
>>A clear sign that airport security people don't read 18th and 19th
>>century manuals on English Cane Fighting.  If they did they would

While we're on the subject, how well do people think a pool cue would
work in a sword or short staff set? (Yes, I know a sword has a sharp
edge and point which a pool cue lacks, but similar techniques might 
still be effective...)

                                                  Frank Crary
                                                  CU Boulder
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Re: Aikido-U.S. & Japan (Ankle reversal thread)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 30 SEP 92 09:24:19    


mckellar@cs.UAlberta.CA (Neil McKellar) writes...
> 
To my observation :

Most people at about brown belt level try kotegaeshi against the ankle
and discover that it doesn't work too well on a proper kick and they stick 
to timing throws.   Some adapt jujutsu-like reaps with Aiki timing very
effectively.   

Neil replied :

A black belt at the Aikido dojo I train at sometimes teaches self-defense
courses at work (he works at a youth detention center).  Some of the people
who sign up have had training in other arts.  He says he has successfully
used a kotegaeshi variation against the front snap kick.  

My response :

I'll easily concede the following.
It's true in general that if your timing and tai-sabaki is 'good enough' 
and the attack wild enough or following through enough, you 
can get virtually anything to work, including knocking the opponent down
with an evil eye (several Aiki folks seem to do this well, especially
in a controlled match or against their own students).  It's also true that 
something resembling a variation of kote-gaeshi can be made to work against a 
kick (though it is closer to what I consider the Aikijutsu or Jujutsu 
kotegaehi than the commutative Ki Aikido version I'm most familiar with).

Much more often than ankle kotegaeshi in Aikido, I've seen some good Hapkido 
people trap a foot (usually more on roundhouse kicks, though) and twist the 
ankle for a dramatic throw.   My impression though is that this is generally
a lot more successful when the difference is skills is very great, and
is rare to be able to get it to work between equally skilled combatants.

>This is what I was told.  I have no reason to disbelieve any of it.  I also
>confess to being too unskilled in my ukemi to have wanted a reasonable
>demonstration of the technique.  :-) 8-o

I don't disbelieve it, but I would wonder about someone claiming to teach 
self-defense teaching such an awkward defense when there are more _generally
applicable_ ones.  If it fits in an Aiki curriculum at all, it fits in the
[formal exercises] rather than the [self-defense applications], I think.
Or maybe this teacher was emphasizing their own skill and not suggesting this 
kind of defense for self-defense students ?

Thanks very much for your comments to my post.

							kind regards,

							todd
From: khc2674@zeus.tamu.edu (Bruce as my Shepherd)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: rhythm (Kali/Wing Chun/JKD)
Date: 28 Sep 92 15:25:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: zeus.28SEP199210252454
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <19trk0INNh10@uwm.edu>, ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty) writes...
> 
>As for internal, there is much to it.  I just got explained recently that
>the Shil Lim Tao form is not just for showing the basic movements of WC,
>but is also used as an internal form to build chi and alignment.  Leung Ting's
>people don't agree with this, and think the form is unimportant once you
>know it.  But other's such as William Cheung, Hawkins Cheung, Moy Yat and
>a handfull of others feel it should always be practiced.
> 
>Marty
> 
>Do

I studied under Leung Ting's Association and I learned that Sil Lim Tao was
the most important form of all and should be practiced at each session. It
is not only the foundation of all the techniques but it is also the Chi Kung
form. It is to be practiced before anything else. > 
Kuo Hau Chang  :)               Praying for Mantis                (:
Texas A&M      :)   7-star,8-step,Taiji,Tantui,Lu-Han,Flat Plate  (:
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: shawmd@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael D Shaw)
Subject: Last of the Mohicans
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 00:51:25 GMT

If you haven't seen this movie, you should! It's GREAT!!!  Anyway to the point
of my post... in the movie the father of Hawkeye used a combination sword/axe/
club type of weapon, does anyone know what it was called?  Are there any books
on American Indian weapons and their fighting techniques?  Did they have an
actual "Martial Art"?

Another noteable thing was the style of the running attack that was used in 
the movie, was this an actual form of attack?  It was interesting how it
seemed that one form of the attack was to actually not block or make sure the
blow missed and then to attack your opponent while you're behind him.  The most
noteable example of this comes at the end of the movie. 

Mike Shaw
shaw@gn.ecn.purdue.edu

"I've come to chew bubblegum and kick ass ... and I'm all out of bubblegum."
-- Rowdy Roddy Piper in THEY LIVE
From: lchurch2@bluemoon.rn.com (Leonard Church)
Subject: Re: Kung Fu TV series
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 13:04:24 EDT

ddukhovn@nyx.cs.du.edu (The Great Harlequin) writes:

> I have recently seen a movie that David Caradine(sp?) has starred in that
> was actually rather good <cries of alarm, shock, and dismay>.  It was cal-
> led _The_Iron_Circle_ and contained a lot of classical Chinese martial forms
> and mysticism.  Plus, Dave gets to play a blind wise-man/teacher instead
> of the student of one.  It is definitely a must-see.  
> 
> _The_Iron_Circle_ can easily be termed one of the best movies I've ever seen,
> and THE best martial arts film I've ever enjoyed.
> 

The movie was based off of "The Silent Flute" and was written by Sterling 
Siliphant(sp?), James Coburn [the actor], and Bruce Lee.  It starred a lot 
of different people, Roddy MacDowell, Christopher Lee, Kam Yuen, Eli 
Wallach, and a number of other martial artists.  The movie was full of Zen 
and Toaist type quips and such and was not that bad...
-Leonard Church-
Instructor Aranada y Kali

-------------------------------------------------------------
Growing trees in a concrete Jungle | lchurch2@bluemoon.rn.com
-------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Re: On Explaining Aikido
Summary: _Yomi_ and Yodels, _Heiho_ _Heiho_ it's off to training we go ...
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 30 SEP 92 14:08:40    


[Dan comments about teaching to fish rather than feeding, and gives some
good examples of 'Ki-like' experiences in other areas]

That's a big part of it.  Another is that if you know enough about
what you're teaching and your students' backgrounds to teach them
in intellectual terms, then you have no problem translating the
concepts.   The only problem is where teaching the intellectual knowledge
of the concepts is confused with teaching the performance of the skills.
The two are entirely separable for most lessons.

I have to add that the reason I'm responding to this is that when I 
trained in and taught Aikido in Philly, I was continually running across
people who I could best describe as an embarrasement, who could mouth off
about Ki and Zen and all things spiritual and theoretical for hours
(and unfortunately sometimes did so instead of training) but couldn't
perform even the most basic movements with mind and body truly coordinated,
the true essence of the art.  When it came time to perform, it was always 
excuse time.   Not exactly the example set by the masters, I think.

Everyone understands leadership by example.  Striving and challenge and 
self-improvement, even those that can't speak a word of Japanese or tell 
_Heiho_ from _Hyoho_ from HoHos or tell _Yomi_ from YoYos from Yodels.  
The better you can demonstrate what to do, the less the need for
verbal hows and whys will pop up.   The least talented performers seem
to have the most elaborate explanations.   I know, because I continually
have to curb my tendency to run off at the mouth.  :-)

						neh ?

						kind regards,
							todd