From: apace@mta.ca
Subject: Re: Diceless net role playing.
Reply-To: apace@mta.ca
Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:26:40 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.105345.16285@cm.cf.ac.uk>, Andrew.Stratton@cm.cf.ac.uk (Andrew F Stratton) writes:
>Since most of the net.rpg discussion seems to be about diced role
>playing, could I open up the discussion for diceless role playing.
>
>Here are some questions :-
>
>1. Does diceless give more opportunity for misuse by the pcs?
>
I must admit that with a _bad_ GM, the possibilities for abuse in a completely
_ruleless_ system are endless. If the GM does not have the courage to stand 
up to players who try to create munchkin characters, things quickly get out 
of hand.  However, with a good GM, you have just removed the problem of rule
abuse. Minmaxing is no longer possible.

>2. Does it take longer/shorter to create a diceless character than under
>   traditional systems?
>
Depends on the system you are comparing to and the amount of work that you
normally put into character development.  For example, I would think that 
the design of a diceless character would, at least in my case, take longer
than say a Toon character, but much less than say, a Chartmaster PC. Most of
the work involved is in developing personality and background for your 
charracter. I find this to be true in Amber as well as in a completely
freeform system.

Of course, if you are already developing highly detailed personalities and
histories, then a diceless system is all savings.

>3. Are there any more diceless games apart from Amber?
>
Not that I know of. Of course, I suspect that lots of people play role-playing
games without dice.

>4. Are dicelss rpgs suitable for one off games?  Or are they best for
>   campaigns.
>
They are certianly suitable for one-shots. A freeform system is in fact very
suitable for very bizzare scenarios.

>5. Is it easier to `wing it' since npcs are simpler in statistics,
>   though more complex in character.
>
In my opinion, yes.  It makes it much easier to simply borrow characters 
from literature, movies, TV, etc.
 
>6. What tips are useful for GMs and players?
>
As a GM, be very careful during character creation. Without stats or power
levels to guide you, you can get into some bad situations by allowing 
interesting concepts without thinking about the consequences.

As a player, be creative. It is very easy to be trapped into a role in
some systems, especially if you have minmaxed at all during creation.
In a freeform system, your range of action is much less limited, and
creativity tends to be greatly rewarded.

>7. Where do diceless really WIN over dice based rpgs?
>
FLOW - There are no frustrating rules to search for, no endless combats,
only role-playing. I find it much easier to suspend disbelief when there
is no clatter of dice and calling out of skill levels.

FREEDOM - Interesting concepts can be created without having to fight the
rules at every step. You can change things without any problems, as long as
you use a certian amout of subtlety.

>8. Where do diceless really LOSE over dice based rpgs?
>
I find diceless rpgs are unsuitable for mass combat. If you enjoy this
maybe you should think about a more traditional system.

It is also difficult to fairly determine the outcome of events that are
out of the player's hands.

>9. Would a diceless net rpg be possible - or would each GM end up
>   producing their own incompatible version?

Well, a perfectly workable not-quite-diceless system has already been
suggested. 

If you are looking at a more Amber-like system, I'm not sure.  I think that
any diceless system will tend to de-emphasize rules, even if there is a well
defined system.  If most of the character is personality, then I don't see
compatibility as being a problem.

However, with the current modular system being proposed, I'm not sure that any 
"standard" net.rpg cooked together will be compatible either!
 
>
>Just a start,
>  Andy Stratton.

Just my thoughts,
   Tony Pace.




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