HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ckennedy@sleepy.helios.nd.edu (chris kennedy)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 8 Sep 92 14:38:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Sep8.143816.20139
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame

Just a quick count for all of you who are interested,  

when I logged in this morning there were 35 unread messages in rec.scouting
26 of them had to do with Homosexuality of these 

Andrew Wierling had written 7
Eric Rescorla 6 
Jon Livesey   6 
and Carl Kadie 3 

now I can understand people wanting their position to be heard but can't some 
of this be done by e-mail.  
In general I don't want to kill the whole thread, because sometimes people will
post newspaper articles, official BSA policy, a few months ago there was a
short discussion by a scout in Denmark about the fact that there were 2 scout 
groups in Denmark, one more religiously affiliated than the other.  In the 
past I have asked, with no avail, that people say what they have heard about 
the non-religious based scout group that the BSA proposed when they were in the
middle of their fight with the SF UW.  I would also be interested in knowing 
what, if any policy, there is regarding the explorers and gays/athiests.  
	Like I said I think that in general it would be easier to follow this
discussion if some people didn't feel that it was their mission in life to
follow up every article with their own post that simple restates but dosen't
clarify the positions.

Chris
 
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: hellmann@cs.scarolina.edu (Douglas R Hellmann)
Subject: Re: WHERE IS THE FUN
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date:  7 Sep 92 04:37:49 GMT

romingk@pell3l0.alleg.edu (Karl Rominger) writes:


>As an Eagle Scout, 3 time BSA camp councilor, and OA member, I have few  
>memories of this kind of policy debate.  I remember good times, wholesome  
>activities, and family and community values.  I learned  stewardship,  
>responsibility, accountibility, and love.  I also learned that while one  
>is always reverent of other's beliefs, that responsibility to god and  
>country come first.  If you don't like the traditional values expoused by  
>our brotherhood, than go and found your own movement.  Unfortunately it is  
>always easier to kill than to create.  


>In Brotherhood
>Karl E. Rominger

I wholeheartedly agree with your statement.  Unfortunately, this sort of
pettiness has encroached even down to the Troop Committee level
(speaking from experience with the Committee of my Troop).  How I long
for the days when a camping trip was a simple thing:  we went out with
our tents and had a good time in the woods.  It is so much harder to
stimulate the interest of the boys in our troop.  They are more
concerned with going rapelling (sp?) and doing other high adventure
trips.  When the subject of helping the new scouts learn skills and
going on trips as a troop comes up, all I hear is "I know how to 
camp...".  I know these statements are coming from the SPL's father 
because I hear him saying the same things at the Committee meetings.

How can you force people to have a good time without spending their life
savings on the trips?  I don't remember paying more than about $8 on any
of our trips!  Some of the prices he is quoting are over $100!!

Doug Hellmann
Eagle Scout, Asst SM, Troop 333
Indian Waters Council
Columbia, SC
hellmann@cs.scarolina.edu
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 01:42:44 GMT

daveh@frackit.UUCP (Dave Hultberg) writes:

[...]
>In fact the official statement from
>national denies that BSA even backs a boycott of Levis.
[...]

This is good to hear. I recall an article in this newsgroup, however,
that mentioned a Council that backed a boycott.

- Carl

--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: Rescorla for himself.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 01:28:21 GMT

In article <pio27c8@zola.esd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
>In article <1992Sep8.003336.26448@cs.yale.edu>, rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla) writes:
>|> 
>|> To be honest, what you happen to think about the etiology of sexual
>|> preference is of approximately zero relevance to the truth about
>|> what controls sexual preference. People are notoriously bad judges
>|> of their own psychology.
>
>Well, supposing that to be true, so what?   If people are bad
>judges of their own psychology, what qualifies you to judge 
>the psychology of others?   Nothing, would be my first guess.
That's right. And as far as I can tell, the psychological data
on the topic are pretty inconclusive, so I'm reserving judgement
on the whole issue. I.e. I'm skeptical of people who claim
that sexual preference is innate and I'm skeptical of people
who claim that it's experiential. Is that an acceptable
thought pattern for me to hold, Mr. Livesey?

>So probably we would all be better off with you letting people 
>live the life they feel best with, so long as they don't harm 
>other people doing it.   
And who said I wasn't doing that?
This, Mr. Livesey, is the second time you have implied that
I am trying to control the lives of others. Do you have any
reason to believe this?

In fact, Mr. Livesey, I AM letting people live the life they
feel best with, providing it doesn't hurt me. [Which, incidentally,
is orthogonal to homosexuality]. This does not mean, however,
that I am going to sit back and watch people whose political
policies I agree with make stupid arguments and not say anything
because I happen to agree with their conclusions. Nor do I think
that I should have to preface every criticism of such people
with "I support gay rights, BUT."

Sir, I think you owe me an apology.
-Ekr


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Rescorla, DoD#431 (Nighthawk S)              rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu
Former chemist now CM400 mechanic                 ekr@eitech.com(preferred)
                       I will hack Unix for food.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: Rescorla for himself.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 00:33:36 GMT

In article <AWERLING.92Sep7175340@dante.nmsu.edu> awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING) writes:
>In article <1992Sep4.201833.17472@auto-trol.com> katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty) writes:
>- How could they possibly know best? But shouldn't this also be true of GLBO
>- people? Don't you think we know ourselves better than those who claim our
>- homosexuality is learned? Why not believe us when we are telling the truth
>- about our lives?
>
>Damn Str**ght!!!!
>
>Amen, Kathy, Amen!
To be honest, what you happen to think about the etiology of sexual
preference is of approximately zero relevance to the truth about
what controls sexual preference. People are notoriously bad judges
of their own psychology.

-Ekr


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Rescorla, DoD#431 (Nighthawk S)              rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu
Former chemist now CM400 mechanic                 ekr@eitech.com(preferred)
                       I will hack Unix for food.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: montgojw@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (II Jerry Montgomery)
Subject: Address help
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:59:08 GMT


This really isn't the place to do this, but I was wondering if anybody  
could tell me the internet address format for the University of  
Louisville.  Basically, what I need to know is how the name is arranged  
and what comes after the "@".  Please mail responses to  
MONTGOJW@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

			Thanks a lot

**************************************************************************
Jerry W. Montgomery II
Chemical Engineering Major
Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology

"When dreams and reality come in conflict, only hope is victorious."
						                   --JWMII
**************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: Auto-trol Technology Corporation -- Denver, Colorado
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 15:30:17 GMT

st1lv@rosie.uh.edu (McLeod, Stephen) writes:
: >
: Jeez-- forget it.  You're right.  All homosexuals are saints and would *never*
: ever be attracted to a sexually mature teenager like a straight person would.
: You guys and ladies are perfect and infallible unlike straight people.  To you,
: there is some magical aura that prevents sexual attraction to anyone under
: the age of consent.  
: 

What bullshit. I said no such thing. You set up a strawman, I knocked it down,
and now you are going to stomp off in anger. Get some psychological help, you 
need it.

: And there were never any societies where homosexuality was more common than
: 10% of the population.

Huh? What does that have to do with anything? 
: 
: Only straights and pedophiles have sex with kids under 18-- never homosexuals.
: 
: All of our sexual kinks are determined in the womb.  There's even a gene for
: attraction to leather.  Environment has zero effect.
: 
Homosexuality is not a sexual kink. There are more heterosexuals into leather
than there are homosexuals. Most of homosexuals are not into leather. This is
yet another strawman, it has nothing whatsoever to do with this. 

: There is no need to install the same kinds of protection for lesbians with 
: girls as their is for men with young girls because they are never, ever, in
: a million years attracted to the girls (unlike men) because their sexual drives
: are somehow purer.  Ditto for homosexual males with young males.
: 
: And so on.  

What utter drivel. Children need to be protected from pedophiles - all 
pedophiles. None the less, most pedophiles heterosexual men. So, should
we perhaps pass laws to keep all heterosexual men away from children?
: 
: Listen, either you *are* "normal" except your orientation is towards the same
: sex or you are not.  You seem to be one of those people who are striving so
: hard to advance your point that you are unwilling to conceed any negative point
: however slight.  In this regard, you are 'normal' too I guess but it gets real
: tiring when I find I'm talking to a *PERSON* like you be they religious, gay, 
: or whatever affiliation.
: 
Oh, I see. I prove that your premise is wrong, so you accuse me of not 
conceding anything to you. If you want to condemn pedophilia, I am 100% 
on your side. If you want to use pedophilia to condemn homosexuals, as
you have been doing, I will not concede, because you are promoting a lie.

: Communication with you is a one way street so I'm getting off.
: 

In the words of another internet user, don't let the door hit you in the 
ass on the way out. 


Kathy 
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.discrimination
From: jon@Turing.ORG (Jon Gefaell (KD4CQY))
Subject: Re: Net.Citizen.Arrest Of Net.Citizen Attempted
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Distribution: rec
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 22:37:56 GMT

In article <AWERLING.92Sep12124848@dante.nmsu.edu> awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING) writes:
>I'm amused.
>
>
>	"Your current flame rampage..."
>
>NOT.
>
>	"...is costing hundreds of sysops and companies hundreds
>	of dollars in mail/dialup/network fees so that you can
>	blather on incoherently about this topic."
>
>Wow.  Loaded allegations there, friend.
>
>1. Anyone know how much one posting costs one company?


Use all the bandwidth you want, we'll make more :)
From: poli2031@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: What is an Eagle Scout?
Date: 9 Sep 92 12:23:56 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <johnw.13.715906045@psychnet.psychol.utas.edu.au>, johnw@psychnet.psychol.utas.edu.au (John Wanless) writes:
> To Fellow Scouters,
> 		Would someone explain your training schemes over there in 
> the USA. Reading this group and someone says that they are an Eagle Scout 
> doesn't mean anything to me in Tasmania(Australian state) unless I can 
> relate it to our own training requirements.In each section here, giving 
> Scout Leaders as an example, they have to do an orientation or 3A as some 
> call it which consists of a weekend camp with probably 4-6 instructors 
> taking 1/2 hour sessions on all aspects of what a leader is required to 
> do with his Troop. The next phase is called 3B and consists of two 
> weekends with the instructors going in to greater detail on what was 
> taught the first weekend. This also includes a practical component of a 
> hike and overnight camp with bushcraft needed to construct the campsite, 
> ie, "table & chairs" and prepare a 3 course meal, judged by an 
> instructor. After this weekend if all goes well you are issued with  
> a "Warrant", which indicates that you have completed all the training 
> required. The "Warrant" is not owned by you and can be withdrawn at any 
> time if you leave the service or "conduct" is not at the high standard 
> required.     
> Further stage 4 training is available and once this is completed after two 
> weekends with more practical and a project about some fundamentals of 
> Scouting and completed over a three month period and taking more than 10 
> hours (more like 30 hours it took me). Once this is passed into your 
> supervisor and assessed then the District Commissioner is informed and you 
> are recommended for a Wood Badge only after he has assessed you for a 
> further 3 months and is "happy" with the way you run the Troop. The Wood 
> Badge consists of a couple of  wooden beads modelled of the beads given by 
> the Chief in Kiplings book of the Jungle Boy, I think thats how the story 
> goes.Anyway that a very brief description of our training perhaps we can get 
> others to give us their descriptions?Yours in Scouting,
> John Wanless
> Venturer Leader (ex Scout Leader)  
From what I have learned is that the Eagle Scout is the equivalent of the
Queen Scout in Australia, New Zealand and UK.
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Okay, rec.scouting take two...
Date: 4 Sep 92 23:39:58 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Sep3.165213.26705@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
> There is no reason to split rec.scouting; the only problem is that
> people, such as Chris Evans, Carl Kadie, and others, have abused
> rec.scouting is order to promote their own atheist and/or gay
> rights agenda...

> But there is a little matter of "netiquette" too, and one of the rules
> of netiquette is that you don't post articles unrelated to the newsgroup,

> Keep rec.scouting the way it is, and let's all obey the rules of 
> netiquette (and to Evans and Kadie- this means you too, and don't try
> to rationalize your way out of it; you know you are in violation).

"When the facts support you, argue the facts.
 When the facts don't support you, argue the law.
 When neither supports you, wave your arms and shout."
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From:  (m19701)
Subject: Re: Fund Raising Ideas needed
Followup-To: rec.scouting
Organization: mitre.org
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:05:56 GMT

In article <1685CE76F.A8637710@tscc.macarthur.uws.edu.au>,
l.gudiksen@uws.edu.au wrote:
> 
> G'day to all.
>  
> I have decided to post this to see if any people have some inovative ideas
> for raising funds for their group that they may like to share.
>  

Greetings and Salutations. . . 	

					One of the "fun" fund raising activities I've seen recently was a
"Meadow Pie Lotto" (also called a Paddy Drop, a Meadow Muffin, and numerous
other names).  Basic rules seem to be a) get a field and mark it off into
sections (our high school used the football field so square yards were
easy), b) number each section and sell numbers (I favor putting the numbers
into gelcaps and letting folks draw one out of a fish bowl), and c)  over
feed a cow and let loose onto field (no people allowed onto field but
yelling, coaxing, etc. is allowed).  The first square to rec've a Meadow
Muffin wins first prize, second wins second, and, obviously third wins
third.  Line drops can either be split or officially measured to determine
the owner of the largest plop.  If no winner (or cow paddy) winners can be
drawn, cow can be left in field longer, or whole event to have a back up. 
I admit, it was really an exciting event (ever seen a few hundred people
cheer just because a cow dropped a load?)  Cow was in field for an hour or
so.  School held flea market/garage sale at same time.  Big bucks were made
and first prize was significant (for a high school fund raiser).

Later. . .
From: kati@glnserv.UUCP (Lady Dragon)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Girls Are Great,' too
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 04:43:38 CDT
Organization: Vermi-net, Houston, Tx. 77098

dlm@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Deborah Maraziti (aka Spacee)) writes:

> In article <281.2AB190FE@gisatl.fidonet.org> deitch@gisatl.fidonet.org (David
> >
> >     It is part of "Girls Are Great," a program launched by the Northwest Ge
> >     The program, which includes traditional Scouting activities along with
> >
> Do you know if this program introduces these girls into established troops or
> do they form new troops of their own?
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Spacee                            ~     I'm conducting a search for a

I'm not sure of your question, but I'll try to answer it anyway. The
program "Girls are Great" is a program available to any and all troops. It
is designed to be completed over several meetings and to help girls
understand more about themselves as adolescents and with the world around
them. They even receive a patch if they complete the requirements.

* * email address: nuchat!xcluud!glnserv!kati * Houston, Texas, USA, Earth * *




Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: Rescorla for himself.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 23:00:50 GMT

In article <AWERLING.92Sep8160721@dante.nmsu.edu> awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING) writes:
>In article <1992Sep8.003336.26448@cs.yale.edu> rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla) writes:
>- To be honest, what you happen to think about the etiology of sexual
>- preference is of approximately zero relevance to the truth about
>- what controls sexual preference. People are notoriously bad judges
>- of their own psychology.
>
>You are right about that, but I think we would know if we were child
>molesters, etc.
Absolutely, but there is nothing to suggest that you would have
even the remotest clue as to whether your orientation is learned
or innate.
-Ekr



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Rescorla, DoD#431 (Nighthawk S)              rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu
Former chemist now CM400 mechanic                 ekr@eitech.com(preferred)
                       I will hack Unix for food.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: briard@dxcern.cern.ch (\)
Subject: Workcoeman Scout Reservation (Conn.)
Keywords: Workcoeman Connecticut
Reply-To: briard@dxcern.cern.ch (\)
Organization: CERN, European Laboratory for Particle Physics, Geneva
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 13:23:23 GMT



Hello there!

I'm a belgian student currently working at CERN (European Lab for Particle
Physics) in Geneva (Switzerland). I'm discovering the world of Newsgroups...

I would like to now if anybody has spent a summer camp recently at
Camp Workcoeman Scout Reservation, Long Rivers Council, Conn. It is situated
near Torrington, not far from the Mass. and NY states borders.

I spent 2 months there in July and August 1988 as International Camp Staff.
I acted as Dining Hall Steward and everybody called me Jay. I would like to
get in touch with people who where there at the same time but I lost the address
list I made at that time... Any help is welcome...

I was a troop leader in Belgium for years and if you have any questions about
scouting in my country, I shall answer it the best I can.


Francois Briard


e-mail:     briard@dxcoms.cern.ch

snail-mail: CERN/CN/CS/IN
	    CH-1211 Geneva 23
	    (Switzerland)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: dunne@physics (Robert C. Dunne)
Subject: Re: Troop Management Software
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:25:56 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Bruce D. Nelson (nelson@that_machine.Kodak.COM) wrote:
: There are several troop management software packages advertised
: in Scouting Magazine, and several others floating around BBS's.

I have used Troop Master for the past year. I found it to be a good product.
It is easy to use and one can make unlimited copies for members of your
troop.
Drawbacks: 
	Two people cannot update data and then merge. 
	You can flag scouts for special reports but only use one flag
		at at time.
	If you have an experienced new Scout, you cannot easily move up
	to say Life rank without filling in all the data for every rank
	prior.

I talked to the author, a new version is available for $20 (upgrade) which
should fix most of my problems.

				Bob Dunne
				Troop 368 ASM
				Berkeley Hts NJ
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: nelson@EE (Gary Nelson)
Subject: Re: Is rec.scouting the proper place for the discussion of Rovers also?
Keywords: Rovers
Organization: E
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 92 00:03:32 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.191709.11705@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca>, cs911275@ariel.yorku.ca (MICHAEL A MACDONALD) writes:
|> 
|>   I am the mate of the 3rd Newtonbrook Rover crew. We are located in Toronto,
|> Ontario, Canada. I am wondering if rec.scouting the proper place for the
|> discussion of Rovers also. If so, I'd be very much interested in hearing from
|> other Rover Crews in Canada and the United States.
|>  
|> ==============================================================================
|> Michael A. MacDonald                         
|> York University, Ont. ,Canada                             
|> E-MAIL: cs911275@ariel.yorku.ca            
|> 

rec.scouting is the *perfect* place to talk about Rovers. It applies to
all sections. Good to hear there are other Rovers listening in.
I started watching this newsgroup about 2 weeks ago, and in all that
time you are the first 'other' Rover that has showed up.

Several members of the BSA asked about Venturers (they don't have them),
but nada about Rovers.

I am with the 11th SurDel Errant Knights Crew in Surrey / Delta B.C.
We have about 11 memebers in our crew at the moment, all ages.
As one of the fouding crew members, I have one more year to go
(plus maybe half a year) until they boot me out :->.

Rovering is pretty active here in B.C. all round, though I don't know
who else is on internet.

Good to have some Canadian Interest here!

Yours in Rovering,

Gary Nelson
------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary Nelson					MPR Teltech Ltd
11th SurDel Errant Knights Crew
18th SurDel Troop Counsellor

"Acupuncture: Jabbing yourself in the foot to distract from the
Pain in your Head!"
Newsgroups: rec.scouting