HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sham@cs.arizona.edu (Shamim Zvonko Mohamed)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Tucson bike lanes (Was: Punishment for the Driver!)
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:32:13 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1993Jan23.012305.24747@adobe.com> zstern@adobe.com (Zalman Stern) writes:
>I was in Tucson over the holidays. People kept commenting on how great the  
>bike lanes on Mountain are. Mountain is a major two lane road with a newly  
>installed ~five foot cobble stone divider and a bike lane on each side of  
>the street. I got into a couple of arguments when I expressed the opinion  
>that the cobble stone divider was at best a waste of good lane width and at  
>worst very dangerous. (Its especially treacherous looking at intersections  
>because there is almost no room to merge with thru-traffic to avoid  
>right-turn hooks.)

Exactly! I have to ride on Mountain every day, and about once a month I have
to take evasive action - either against a hook, or the oncoming left turn.
Once at an open-house meeting with city traffic engineers and politicians I
raised this point, and was of course met with incredulous stares and
dismissed as a loony. And then the bike lanes themselves are concrete, with
joints every 6 feet or so - any speed above 15mph and you need to have your
dental fillings re-done.

The ironic thing is that Mountain used to be a decent street to ride on - it
was wide, with a speed limit of 35. Then they ripped up the mile long
stretch of road and installed this perversion. Basically $2 million down the
drain.

>"judging on the number of people I've seen riding on the wrong side of the  
>road and other incompetent things, they should have left out a mile or two  
>and put the money towards education programs."

Hah! A local friend tells me that about 10 years ago, Tucson Police used to
go around the schools delivering lectures on bicycle safety - and they
recommended riding on the left side of the street!

-s
--
Henri Desgrange, 1902: "Variable gears are only for people over forty-five.
Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles rather than by the
artifice of a derailleur? We are getting soft. Come on, fellows. Let's say that
the test was a fine demonstration---for our grandparents! As for me, give me a
fixed gear!"

  Shamim Mohamed / {uunet,noao,cmcl2..}!arizona!shamim / shamim@cs.arizona.edu
   Member of the League for Programming Freedom - write to lpf@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: zstern@adobe.com (Zalman Stern)
Subject: Re: Crazy and incompetent drivers. (Was: Punishment for the Driver!)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:46:45 GMT

In article <39488@sophia.inria.fr> chandy@marais.inria.fr (Chandra SHEKHAR)  
writes:
> In article <shari.728056023@rlxdev>, shari@modcomp.uucp (Shari Bernhard)
> writes:
> |> zstern@adobe.com (Zalman Stern) writes:
> |>  ....
> |> hadn't even gotten a citation for wreckless driving!  It's been over a
>                                      ^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Hilarious typo. Changes the meaning completely!
> 
> Chandy

Please watch the attributions. Shari wrote the "wreckless" line not I. (In  
this case, there is no reason for my name to appear in the excerpted  
message.)

I still haven't seen much discussion of what cyclists can do to convince the  
police to properly prosecute drivers who kill (either through malice or  
negligence). Are we really that politically powerless?
--
Zalman Stern		   zalman@adobe.com		    (415) 962 3824
Adobe Systems, 1585 Charleston Rd., POB 7900, Mountain View, CA 94039-7900
 "...And I didn't even need pants!!"--Dilbert on The Net (by Scott Adams)
From: kipper@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Kip Ingram)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Crazy and incompetent drivers. (Was: Punishment for the Driver!)
Date: 25 Jan 1993 21:28:13 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: mickey.cc.utexas.edu

In article <1993Jan23.005508.24326@adobe.com> zstern@adobe.com (Zalman Stern) writes:
>[Kip argues for bicycle lanes because he is "afraid" of being hit from  
>behind. Thus exhibiting classic cyclist inferiority complex.]

Yes, I definitely feel inferior to a machine that travels at twice my speed
or more and has a combined vehicle/occupant weight 15 times mine, if by 
"inferior" you mean "it can kill me easier than I can kill it".

I'm not going to lose sleep about crazy people either; if one goes for me he's
probably going to get me.  I'm concerned about that other type you mentioned,
the kind that swerves offroad while fishing for a tape (or checking makeup,
ladies; I see that one all the time).  

I'm sure one could plot a histogram of number of swerves as a function of how
far offroad the swerve takes the car.  The further to the right of the white
line you check, the few cars will encroach on that area.  Before anyone argues,
more cars place their tire 6 inches outside the line than do 5 feet.  Period.

The further to the right of the white line I can get, the less likely I am to
be hit.  I've got an open mind, but it will take a lot to convince me that 
that isn't true.  

Kip

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: keenan@kanga.aero.org (Don Keenan)
Subject: Re: The Meek Shall Inherit tire tracks over their belly buttons
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation; El Segundo, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:28:08 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.233716.4773@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>,
 les@SAIL.Stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes about my earlier comments:

|> I'm alternatately amazed or amused by people who express fear about
|> being run over from behind and then reach illogical conclusions such
|> as the following.

|> > The point is anytime you get in an arguement (or exchange of
|> > gestures) with someone you don't know you take the risk that that
|> > person may react in an outrageous manner. If you're on a bike in
|> > traffic that reaction can have very serious consequences. 
|> 

First, I expressed no fear of being run over from behind so I'd 
appreciate not being mis-represented. In fact, earlier in that post
I commented that I thought a lot of the posters are overly paranoid
in this respect. 

Then while describing crossing lanes in rush hour traffic he says :
|> 
|> The following driver almost always leans on his or her horn when I do
|> this, so as to express dismay at being delayed for 10 seconds or so.
|> I then modify my left turn signal into a single-finger salute to
|> indicate where they should blow their horn.  As soon as there is a gap
|> in the next lane I repeat the process there.  Sometimes the drivers
|> augment their inadequate horns by shouting out the window, which I
|> acknowledge with a nasty smile and a wave.
|> 

I'll often 'take a lane' if I need to and let a driver honk or 
swear at me since I believe the odds are miniscule that they will go
beyond that. We seem to be in agreement up to this point, but differ
on the appropriate reaction to the driver's behavior. I don't think
it serves any purpose to continue the 'conversation'. I've asserted 
my right to the road and the driver has commented. I'd just as soon 
leave it at that.  

Here's the hard part. Do I make some snide remark about Les in
response to his 'amazed and amused' comment above? I've just advocated
non-escalation, but I expect the odds of Les actually tracking me down
and clubbing me with his pump are even smaller than those of a driver
going after me with a car. OK Les, in this case you win.
This one is for you    |                                  	
                       |
                      ||||      :-)
                      ||||
From: jrdodd@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Teddy takes a ride
Date: 28 Jan 93 11:52:46 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <1993Jan27.085831.25411@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:
> Though cyclists often find themselves in adversarial relationships
> with motorists, a few years ago I accidentally discovered a way to
> elicit uniformly friendly responses from passing drivers.  In fact,
> a bit too friendly.
> 
> My grown daughter had decided that she no longer needed her 3 foot
> tall teddy bear and wanted to give it to the 2 year old daughter of a
> friend.  I agreed to effect the transfer but found that when placed in
> my shoulder pack its upper torso projected well above the top.  Thus I
> found myself cycling along Foothill Expressway in coat and tie with
> Teddy looking backward at oncoming traffic and waving his arms
> sychronously with my pedalling cadence.  This somehow brought forth an
> outpouring of affection -- as cars passed me, most drivers tootled
> their horns and waved.  Arg!  How embarrassing!
> 
> When I reached Stanford and entered the computer science building
> clutching Teddy in front of me, a woman colleague took one look and
> said in a very motherly tone "How sweet!"  A-a-a-a-rg!
> 
> --
> Les Earnest (Les@cs.Stanford.edu)               Phone:  415 941-3984
> Computer Science Dept.; Stanford, CA 94305	  Fax:  415 941-3934


This reminds me of the latest Blackburn tool-bag that attaches to the bottom of
your saddle - others may have seen it,  it's furry,  complete with eyes,  red
tongue and arms and legs.

Jonathan Dodd
From: JForester@cup.portal.com (John - Forester)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Tri-bar safety
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 15:21:14 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: na

   I am trying to learn of the safety aspects of using tri-bars.
The first time that I conducted a class in which tri-bars were
used (some time ago) I had to prohibit the cyclists who had them
from using them in the group because those tri-bars in use had no
brake levers on them. Therefore the riders could not avoid
running into the rider ahead when the group slowed down or the
rider got going too fast. I have since seen some tri-bars with
brake levers, but I don't know whether the bikes that carry these
also have brake levers in the normal place. If so, what is the
mechanism for linking the action? I have also heard of a rider
who, using a tri-bar on a gentle descent, reached down to change
to a higher gear and experienced uncontrollable oscillations. Is
this a frequent effect, and what is its cause, if anyone knows?

JForester@cup.portal.com                John Forester
                                        726 Madrone Ave
408-734-9426                            Sunnyvale CA 94086 USA 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: jesnow@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan E Snow)
Subject: Re: "Dog Accident"
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 04:24:28 GMT



	I was mauled by a dog as a child.  Since then
I distrust them sufficiently that I always make ready
with my pump when I see one up the road.  I will without
hesitating hit any dog that comes in range.  Sorry if 
you think it's heartless.   I end up doing a lot of 
swinging, but rarely connect. I think they know I mean 
business when I make to swing at them.  Only one 
dog has ever called me on it.  I literally broke my 
pump on him.  No idea if I hurt him, but he yelped
pretty loud and ran away.

	jon.

	 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: ampe@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.e.ampe)
Subject: Re: Car intentionally runs down cyclists!
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:56:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.192549.28143@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> scl@sasha.acc.Virginia.EDU (Steve Losen) writes:
>Perhaps someone with knowledge of the law can clear up the various degrees
>of murder charges.  As I understand it, to convict for 1st degree murder,
>you have to prove premeditation, that the murderer planned in advance to
>kill the victim.  For 2nd degree I believe that you just have to prove the
>intent to kill, but not premeditation (a "heat of the moment" murder). 

In Pennsylvania, and I suspect, most other states, premeditation does
NOT imply any amount of advance planning.  It simply means that the
assailant had, for even the briefest moment, the intent to kill, and
was aware of that intent.

>The point is this.  In order to get a conviction, the prosecutor must
>be able to prove the charge in court.  Lesser degrees of murder are
>easier to prove.

I don't think it should be difficult for a good prosecutor to prove
intent.  Then again, juries are always unpredictable.  I don't know
about California, but in some states she could be tried for all
applicable crimes simultaneously, then the jury could convict for the
most severe charge the deem justified.  Then there is no harm in going
for a 1st degree murder charge.

John_Ampe@att.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: robishaw@asteroid.lrmsc.loral.com (Gary Robishaw x5960)
Subject: Re: Car intentionally runs down cyclists!
Organization: Loral Rolm Mil-Spec Computers
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:20:40 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.205355.22954@ncsu.edu> somerville@bae.ncsu.edu (Garth Somerville) writes:
>
>(The chest pain thing is totally bizarre, I saw an orthopedist about my
>knee and mentioned it to him.  I think his idea is the most reasonable
>explanation I have heard -- the joints where my ribs connect to the
>sternum are "loose" and rub.  Anyone ever heard of this?)
>
I too experienced some SEVERE chest pains a few years ago that absolutly scared
me sh**less. They lasted a while and recurred fairly frequently (they still
occurr, but not as bad nor as often). A careful cardiac exam turned up nothing.
Finally, my doctor asked me if I had ever experienced any chest injury. Turns
out that the ribs I trashed playing high school football healed funny. The
cartlidge can sometimes pull and cause the pain.

Gary
-- 
Gary Robishaw          "He has a constitutional right to be not guilty."
robishaw@monolith.lrmsc.loral.com       Steven Barrucci after John Gotti's
408/432-5960                          sentencing.
Usnail -- 3151 Zanker Rd. San Jose, Ca. 95134-1928
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: ae505@yfn.ysu.edu (Frank Krygowski)
Subject: End of the Road (was: Crazy ... drivers)
Organization: Youngstown State/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 04:01:15 GMT


Speaking of auto fatalities, (CARnage?), paradigms, and such -

Has anybody else read End of the Road , by 
W. Zuckermann, Chelsea Green Publ. Co.?

Subtitle : The World Car Crisis and How We Can Solve It.
Points out the dozens (hundreds?) of  serious problems caused by 
(over)use of cars, and points out how unthinkingly we've accepted
them.  Also possible paths to solutions.

It's almost enough to make you want to ride a bike.

Good paradigm shifter.

Frank Krygowski  ae505@yfn.ysu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: sjlt@leland.Stanford.EDU (Sean Lev-Tov)
Subject: Re: Tri-bar safety
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 22:04:22 GMT

In article <74172@cup.portal.com> JForester@cup.portal.com (John - Forester) writes:
>
>   I am trying to learn of the safety aspects of using tri-bars.
>The first time that I conducted a class in which tri-bars were
>used (some time ago) I had to prohibit the cyclists who had them
>from using them in the group because those tri-bars in use had no
>brake levers on them. Therefore the riders could not avoid
>running into the rider ahead when the group slowed down or the
>rider got going too fast. I have since seen some tri-bars with
>brake levers, but I don't know whether the bikes that carry these
>also have brake levers in the normal place. If so, what is the
>mechanism for linking the action? I have also heard of a rider
 
(stuff deleted)

I ran into the same problem with my aerobars a couple of years ago.
I'd use them to draft smaller people (I'd get a better draft that
way).  I order something called a Brakesplitter (I think) from T-gear.
I saw an add in Triathlete Magazine.  Anyway, they sent me a Leechi
brake lever and a kit for splicing on another cable to the rear 
brake.  The way it worked was to put an open box in the middle of
the rear brake cable's housing where the cable was exposed.  The
box was rigid, so so far the rear brake works normally.  Then you
take the cable from the other lever (on the aerobars) and send it
into the little box from the same side as the main cable is comming
from the lever.  Then you use a little screw clamp thingy to 
clamp the 2 cables together.  The kit included a spring to slip
in the box to help the calipers open again after releasing a lever
(either one for the rear brake) since now there was more drag with
the cables.  Unfortunately this spring didn't work well since it
would compress all of the way and then you couldn't put more force
on the cable, so you couldn't brake harder.  Not good when you need
to stop fast!  I solved this by removing this spring and buying one
to put on the exposed cable at the calipers.  I have Shimano RX100
dual-pivot brakes.  It worked just fine.  You lose a little of that
feel in the brakes, but they're very safe; you add weight too.  :-)
I ended up getting a good brake lever for my bike instead of that 
Leechi thing.  

Sean



Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: ae505@yfn.ysu.edu (Frank Krygowski)
Subject: Re: Do you use a mirror
Organization: Youngstown State/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 02:46:55 GMT


Here's how I attach my homemade mirrors to my glasses.  (These are
metal frame glasses.  The temples are rectangular cross section, 
maybe .050" x .120")

The wire forms a frame around the mirror, fits in a groove filed
around the edge.  Leaving the top right corner, the wire comes back
to the top of the temple hinge on the glasses.

It bend 90 degrees down, INside the temple hinge, to the bottom
edge of the temple.

Then 90 deg. BACK, running about parallel to the temple, just under
it, for maybe 1".

Then 90 deg. up, on the OUTside of the temple, to get to the top.

Then 90 deg BACK, running about an inch parallel & just above the 
temple.

Then 90 deg down, on the INside of the temple, & is cut off just
below the temple's bottom edge.  I bend a vestigial hook into the
bottom 1/16 inch of this.  Keeps it snapped on.

    Here's a try at ASCII graphics:

   _______________           __________
                  |_________|          |   

  the mirror's at far left.  The effect is to spiral around the
temple.  I can put it on with one hand while riding, yet it's 
perfectly solid.

Eyeglass mirrors are still sold, I think, by the inventor:
Chuck Harris, Ultra-Light Touring Shop, Box 363, Gambier OH,
43022.    Phone (614)427 3404.  He's a neat guy.  (But I don't
like his mounting wire as well as mine!) 

Frank Krygowski  ae505@yfn.ysu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Subject: Re: Rude drivers, was Re: Auto insurance laws in different state
Reply-To: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 22:31:39 GMT

Cameron Spitzer writes
I redirected this thread from misc.consumers to here, but the
author below defeated the change.  I'll reply when I have time.
Anybody else wanna take a crack?
In article <unknown>, Terry Von Gease <twv@hpcss01.cup.hp.com> writes:

>Look sport, when you're out there pedaling your little heart out on your
>child's toy you are mostly in the way.  Not only are you in the way,
>you pay not one dime in support of the roadways you claim a right to
>use and you have no obligation to be financially responsible for any
>damage or mischief you and your toy might cause.  But it's the part
>about being in the way that you don't seem to understand.  No matter
>how fast you little legs can pump, unless you've got gravity working
>for you, relative to an automobile moving along at any sort of
>speed at all, you're standing still.  It's kinda like coming around
>a corner and finding a sawhorse sitting in the middle of the road.

>I don't want to harm you but I want you to share my anxiety.  I want you
>to think your going to die.  If you want to finance and construct your
>own bicycle road system or even add realistic bike lanes to the existing
>road system, that's great.  But you have to pay for it yourselves.
>Until that time I want you to hang your toy on the garage wall.
 
>Terry

Cameron

--
Scott Byer                             NeXTMail: byer@mv.us.adobe.com
Adobe Systems Incorporated               These are *my* opinions, and  
1585 Charleston Road, P.O. Box 7900        do not necessarily reflect
Mountain View, CA 94039-7900             the opinions of my employer.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bm@bike2work.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Michel)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Calling Hewlett-Packard bike commuters
Date: 21 Jan 1993 21:11:04 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Mt. View, Ca.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: bm@bike2work.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Michel)
NNTP-Posting-Host: bike2work
Originator: bm@bike2work

Hewlett-Packard's corporate staff is creating a bicycle commuting 
encouragement/incentives program and would like suggestions and 
assistance from any commuting cyclists who work for any part of 
Hewlett-Packard.

Contact Diana McGrogan at HP corporate headquarters in Palo Alto, 
415-857-3031.

/John
jciccare@signum.mv.us.adobe.com
-- 
Bill Michel			
bm@eng.sun.com		These views are my own, not Sun's.
From: sjm3@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SALEM JON MAZZAWY)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Car intentionally runs down cyclists!
Date: 24 Jan 93 23:00:34 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1993Jan22.175920.818@wdl.loral.com>, robishaw@asteroid.lrmsc.loral.c
om (Gary Robishaw x5960) writes:
>Motorists are taking quite a bashing here lately. Let us not forget that
>incidents of this nature are extremely rare, thank God. Most of our run-ins
>with cars are caused by one or both parties having their attention directed
>elsewhere.
>
>I believe that most motorists I encounter on the road are at least tolerant
>of my presence, if not supportive. In fact, it seems to me that since this
>incident occurred, the motorists on my commute are taking greater care than
>they did before.
>
About two months ago, some guys from the Lehigh Cycling team were out for a
training ride.   We were all in a pace line except for one rider who was
coming around to take a pull.   (It is legal to ride two abreast in PA...nice
law).   While he was riding by us a pick-up went by the five of us
blairing its horn.   In response, we waved (even better than the finger for
pissing drivers off).   After passing the truck slammed on its brakes.   The
guy got out and started yelling and acosting the rider who had passed.   (We
were stopped on the road)   Something to the effect of "I'll rip your mother
fucking head off."   We finailly got rid of him by reading his license plate
aloud (very effective).
My point is that some motorist really don't care about our rights.   They see
us as sub human because we chose not drive around in gas hogs.   We are fit to
be killed.   Now that is scary.
                                            Salem Mazzawy
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: elr@trintex.uucp (Ed Ravin)
Subject: Re: Update on Bicycle Advocacy Directory
Organization: Prodigy Services Co.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 06:37:51 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.234550.26396@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> seligman@CS.Stanford.EDU (Scott Seligman) writes:

>> Alliance for a Paving Moratorium, Arcata, CA 95221
>
>This one does advocacy for mountain bikes??

No, silly, they want to stop building new roads.  Totally radical idea -- no
new pavement.  Too bad we couldn't get a president elected with that slogan.
-- 
Ed Ravin- elr@trintex.uucp| I like to think (and the sooner the better!)
  elr%trintex@uunet.uu.net| Of a cybernetic meadow where mammals and computers
           +1-914-993-4737| Live together in mutually programming harmony
my opinions, nobody else's| Like pure water touching clear sky.  -R. Brautigan
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc