HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Date: 08 SEP 92 01:26:27 GMT
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.multinet
X-Return-path: <info-multinet-relay@TGV.COM>
X-RFC822-From: svvaikun@rs6k.owu.edu (Ram Samudrala)
From: svvaikun@rs6k.owu.edu
Subject: non-interactive FTP program...
Organization: The INFO-MULTINET Community

I was working on an non-interactive FTP client and I managed to finish
it a while ago. Now I seem to have found a problem with it. When I FTP
to places which put out long welcoming messages, my client gets
confused and issues commands out of sequence. I can get around this
using a "-" in front of my password, but I can't expect all users to
do this. Is there any way I can get around this??

Thanks!

--Ram


*********** Leave the earth to Satan and his slaves - Black Sabbath **********
# svvaikun@cc.owu.edu || svvaikun@owucomcn.bitnet           #  2C || !2C !=? #
*************************** Hell Awaits! - Slayer ****************************
X-Gateway-Source-Info: INTERNET
Date: 09 SEP 92 17:51:13 GMT
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.multinet
X-Return-path: <info-multinet-relay@TGV.COM>
X-RFC822-From: Brian McKeever <MCKEEVER@VAX2.CSTP.UMKC.EDU>
From: Brian McKeever <MCKEEVER@VAX2.CSTP.UMKC.EDU>
Subject: POP3 server with PMDF personal aliases.
X-Envelope-to: info-multinet@tgv.com
X-VMS-To: IN%"info-multinet@tgv.com"
Organization: The INFO-MULTINET Community

PMDF personal aliases don't seem to be recognized by the POP3 server.  A
faculty member is trying to send broadcast messages to a lot of users
without every username appearing in the message header.  We get
satisfactory results with VMS Mail using IN%<personal-alias>, with
<personal-alias> pointing to a distribution file, but not via Eudora on a
Mac to the POP3 server.  Unfortunately, nicknames in Eudora don't work
either because it seems to expand them also.  The Eudora FM (of RTFM fame)
doesn't seem to mention anything about how to make nicknames terse.

Any advice for the perpetually verbose?

Thanks,

--Brian

VMS V5.5-1, PMDF V4.0, Multinet V3.1B
From: GARLOUGH@TGV.COM (Trey Garlough)
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.multinet
Subject: Re:  Setting up terminal server to access STREAM printer queue?
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:13:24 GMT
Organization: TGV, 603 Mission Street, Santa Cruz, CA 95060
X-Gateway-Source-Info: INTERNET
X-Return-path: <info-multinet-relay@TGV.COM>
X-RFC822-From: Trey Garlough <GARLOUGH@TGV.COM>

> I have postscript printers on terminal server ports presently connected via lat
> printer queues on vms.  I want to experiment with using tcp instead.  I set up
> stream protocol printer queues under multinet and tried sending postscript
> files.  The files were sent, but nothing appeared.  Has anyone succeeded in
> doing this?

Hi Mark.

Do a "$ SHOW QUEUE/FORM/FULL" on the form type you are using when printing 
the file and look at the /WIDTH= value.  If it's something small (like 132),
then the symbiont is probably biffing up the file by truncating or wrapping 
long lines when it sends the file down the wire.  Set /WIDTH=2000 (or 
something big) and see if that makes things happy.

--Trey
X-Gateway-Source-Info: INTERNET
Date: 10 SEP 92 17:56:10 GMT
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.multinet
X-Return-path: <info-multinet-relay@TGV.COM>
X-RFC822-From: "I am only an egg." <JOHNSON@northeastern.edu>
From: "I am only an egg." <JOHNSON@northeastern.edu>
Subject: "r" commands.
X-Envelope-to: info_multinet@tgv.com
X-VMS-To: IN%"info_multinet@tgv.com"
X-VMS-Cc: JOHNSON
Organization: The INFO-MULTINET Community

     So here I am trying to get RMT up.  The book says that for rdump 
etc to work rsh has to work.  Makes sense.  So I try a command from my 
Ultrix system to my VMS system as follows;

     rsh nuhub -l johnson show time    (or dir or whatever)

The VMS system promptly returns "Permission denied."  I know this 
because I grabbed the packets with FTP's LANWATCH.  

     So now I'm looking through page 12-16 section 12.7 R-Utility 
Troubleshooting.  

     Rlogin to the VMS machine to my account gives two deferent responses 
depending on how I do it;

     rlogin nuhub

asks for a password which I give and fails.  However,

     rlogin nuhub -l johnson

asks for a password which I give and works.  I tried with and without 
rhosts in my directory and get the same results.  The Ultrix account 
was the same username, johnson.  The .rhosts file has the name of the 
Ultrix system as I see in SHOW TERMINAL after login.

     Reply/enable=net gets me nothing at all.  

     I flushed the cache.  No help.

     What's this about nothing in login.com printing?  Every login.com I 
run here prints and for good reasons.  What's the problem with this?

     Have I missed anything?  The book seems to indicate that the 'r' 
commands should just work when MULTINET is running.

     Oh and I tried with and without multinet:hosts.equiv.  No help.

     Help!

     Thanks.

Chris Johnson
Northeastern University.

Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.multinet
From: reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack)
Subject: Re: DECwindows over IP problem and an FDDI problem.
Reply-To: reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack)
Organization: The Wollongong Group (East Coast Operations)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 21:24:04 GMT


In article <42E00D2910SEP92175602@TGV.COM>, "Rolf E. Sonneveld" <R.E.Sonneveld@research.ptt.nl> writes:
|>Hello, all
|>
|>We've two problems. Hope you can help us.
	[...problem 1 deleted for brevity...]
|>2. On our Multinet host we've both an ethernet and an FDDI interface.
|>   The default route is via ethernet. Changing the default  route  to
|>   FDDI gives me a lot of unreachable systems on the ehternet  behind
|>   our cisco. Hope someone can tell me  how  to  make  the  FDDI  the
|>   default route?
|>
|>   Another  problem is, that the fddi interface is not reachable from
|>   other  systems.  However,  if  I first do a ping from the multinet
|>   host  towards such a system, than that system (if it's on fddi) is
|>   placed  in  the  ARP  table,  and  then  the  fddi  interface *is*
|>   reachable  from  that  system.  This  trick  doesn't  work from an
|>   ethernet  host,  because  the ethernet cisco interface is the only
|>   (default)  route  in  the  ARP table. What should I do to make the
|>   FDDI interface available towards any system on our LAN?
|>
|>Hope someone can help us. Thanks a lot in advance,

I thought everyone had heard about this problem by now. The DEMFA controller
is afflicted with a problem similar to that of the DEBNA in that it ignores
incoming broadcast packets. Since ARP requests are broadcasts there is no
ARP reply, and thus no access. Making an outbound connection updates the
ARP tables in the router, allowing inbound connections to go through.

Contact DEC Field Service and ask to have the DEMFA microcode updated to
at least version 1.4.

--
Reece R. Pollack
Senior Software Engineer
The Wollongong Group, Inc.
X-Gateway-Source-Info: INTERNET
Date: 08 SEP 92 23:40:42 GMT
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.multinet
X-Return-path: <info-multinet-relay@TGV.COM>
X-RFC822-From: Bob Paver <PAVER@MAXIMILLION.MCC.COM>
From: Bob Paver <PAVER@MAXIMILLION.MCC.COM>
Subject: MM expunge improvement
Organization: MCC, MIS/Telecomm
X-Phone: (512) 338-3316
X-FAX: (512) 338-3888

I don't know what you guys did, but expunges in MM (v3.1) seem to run
an order of magnitude faster!  

Thanks!

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 
Bob Paver  ---->  paver@mcc.com

Microelectronics and Computer Technology Corp (MCC)
3500 West Balcones Center Drive
Austin, Texas 78759-6509             (512) 338-3316
X-Gateway-Source-Info: INTERNET
Date: 16 SEP 92 04:27:47 GMT
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.multinet
X-Return-path: <info-multinet-relay@TGV.COM>
X-RFC822-From:    SEF@GROUCH.JPL.NASA.GOV (Better is the enemy of good... Voltaire)
From: SEF@GROUCH.JPL.NASA.GOV
Subject: Remote Access of Tape Drives
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"INFO-MULTINET@TGV.COM",SEF
Organization: The INFO-MULTINET Community

Is it possible to backup a VAX (VMS) disk drive to a 4mm drive on a NEXT
workstation (UNIX) via Multinet 3.0? If so what command should be used to
backup and what command to restore? Does NFS have to be up first? Don't worry
we wouldn't attempt to do the system disk and expect the resulting tape to be
restorable.

Thanks in Advance,
Scott Fullner
From: KNAPKE@Butler.EDU (David J. Knapke 317/283-9420)
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.multinet
Subject: network advice
Date: 15 Sep 92 20:26:06 GMT
Organization: The INFO-MULTINET Community
X-Gateway-Source-Info: INTERNET
X-Return-path: <info-multinet-relay@TGV.COM>
X-RFC822-From: "David J. Knapke 317/283-9420" <KNAPKE@Butler.EDU>
X-VMS-To: IN%"info-multinet@tgv.com"


  
  We have a remote building that nobody wants to spend any real dollars on
  to connect to our campus.  What I was hoping to do was setup a 
  routing situation that would work over dialup (SLIP??).  
  
  THat building has both MACs and PCs.  I would like to tunnel AppleTalk and
  IPX in IP if possible.  IP access is most desireable.  Anyone have any ideas
  for me?  I'd appreciate it!!
  
  


David J. Knapke                       Knapke@Butler.EDU
Computer Center                   Knapke@ButlerU.BITNET
Butler University                    Assistant Director
Indianapolis, IN  46208           Information Resources
USA      Fax: (317) 283-9740      Voice: (317) 283-9420
From: mahan@TGV.COM
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.multinet
Subject: RE: Unable to run application
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:59:34 GMT
Organization: The INFO-MULTINET Community
X-Gateway-Source-Info: INTERNET
X-Return-path: <info-multinet-relay@TGV.COM>
X-RFC822-From:    mahan @ TGV.COM (Patrick L. Mahan)

#
#I have a problem running an application from my HP Unix system on my VAXstation
#3100 with Multinet 3.0 rev G.
#I have setup the security according to what the manuals tell me to do and 
#defined a display using the follwing command:
#
#
#$ set display/create/transport=tcpip
#$ show display
#
#    Device:    WSA7:  [super]
#    Node:      0
#    Transport: TCPIP
#    Server:    0
#    Screen:    0
#
#Also on the unix machine I have setup the environment variable DISPLAY:
#
## export DISPLAY=vs3100:0.0
#
#When I run my application I get the following message:
#
#Xlib:  connection to "vs3100:0.0" refused by server
#Xlib:  Client is not authorized to acce
#ERROR open_xwindow: can't open display
#
#Has anyone got an idea to what is going wrong? Please help!
#

What is the security set up on the VAXstation?  If you set display to 
localhost using tcpip transport and run decw$examples:ico, what happens?

Patrick L. Mahan

--- TGV Window Washer ------------------------------- Mahan@TGV.COM ---------

Waking a person unnecessarily should not be considered  - Lazarus Long
a capital crime.  For a first offense, that is            From the Notebooks of
							  Lazarus Long
X-Gateway-Source-Info: INTERNET
Date: 10 SEP 92 21:58:45 GMT
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.multinet
X-Return-path: <info-multinet-relay@TGV.COM>
X-RFC822-From:    mahan @ TGV.COM (Patrick L. Mahan)
From: mahan@TGV.COM
Subject: RE: DECwindows over IP problem and an FDDI problem.
Organization: The INFO-MULTINET Community

#
#We've two problems. Hope you can help us.
#
#1. The first problem is related to the opening of a DECwindows window
#   over TCP/IP on  a  Multinet  host.  We  get  the  following  error
#   message. I can't find it neither in the Multinet  manual,  nor  in
#   the DECwindows User Guide.
#
#> dectermport failed to find language, XOpenDisplay("") returned NULL
#> %DECW-F-CANT_OPEN_DISPL, Can't open display
#
#Anyone triggered?
#

This means a number of things.  Run $MU X11/LOG and send me the output.
Also, make sure other X applications are failing.

#
#2. On our Multinet host we've both an ethernet and an FDDI interface.
#   The default route is via ethernet. Changing the default  route  to
#   FDDI gives me a lot of unreachable systems on the ehternet  behind
#   our cisco. Hope someone can tell me  how  to  make  the  FDDI  the
#   default route?
#
#   Another  problem is, that the fddi interface is not reachable from
#   other  systems.  However,  if  I first do a ping from the multinet
#   host  towards such a system, than that system (if it's on fddi) is
#   placed  in  the  ARP  table,  and  then  the  fddi  interface *is*
#   reachable  from  that  system.  This  trick  doesn't  work from an
#   ethernet  host,  because  the ethernet cisco interface is the only
#   (default)  route  in  the  ARP table. What should I do to make the
#   FDDI interface available towards any system on our LAN?
#
#Hope someone can help us. Thanks a lot in advance,
#

I'll let others answer this.

Patrick L. Mahan

--- TGV Window Washer ------------------------------- Mahan@TGV.COM ---------

Waking a person unnecessarily should not be considered  - Lazarus Long
a capital crime.  For a first offense, that is            From the Notebooks of
							  Lazarus Long


X-Gateway-Source-Info: INTERNET
Date: 10 SEP 92 15:54:56 GMT
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.multinet
X-Return-path: <info-multinet-relay@TGV.COM>
X-RFC822-From: "I am only an egg." <JOHNSON@northeastern.edu>
From: "I am only an egg." <JOHNSON@northeastern.edu>
Subject: Re: Ultrix backups.
X-Envelope-to: info-multinet@tgv.com
X-VMS-To: IN%"wipke@secs.ucsc.edu",IN%"info-multinet@tgv.com"
X-VMS-Cc: JOHNSON
Organization: The INFO-MULTINET Community

     >We have ultrix 5000/240 workstations with no tapes, and vms 5.5 vax
     >4000/500 with 5f85 and Multinet 3.1 .  We have learned to NFS file share
     >and printer share, and are ready for the lesson on what to do to back up
     >the Ultrix machines onto vms TF85 tape.  Incidentally it is a FAST tape
     >drive, a real thrill to use. 
     >    Thanks in advance.
     >
     >Todd wipke
     >Molecular Engineering Laboratory
     >UCSC
     >wipke@secs.ucsc.edu

     Although I suspect it's a bit Rube Goldbergish I use dump to backup 
file systems on Ultrix/Bugtrix to NFS mounted disks on my VAXCluster 
running TGV MULTINET.  The dumps then go out to tape with VMS BACKUP.  
COPY has record length problems.  It works.

     I've never heard of tapes being defined as an NFS mounted object.  
MSCP has the same problem in VMS; no tapes.

Chris Johnson
Northeastern University

X-Gateway-Source-Info: INTERNET
Date: 14 SEP 92 18:14:52 GMT
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.multinet
X-Return-path: <info-multinet-relay@TGV.COM>
X-NUPop-Charset: English
X-RFC822-From: (Matt Nowotny) <cir_jmn@vax1.utulsa.edu>
From: <cir_jmn@vax1.utulsa.edu>
Subject: RE:loggin anonymous ftp server
Organization: The INFO-MULTINET Community

In Message 14 Sep 92 10:00:56 GMT,
  RODRIGOL%BIOMED.UIO.NO@TGV.COM (Rodrigo Lopez) writes:

>Multinetter's,
>
>
>I'm trying to find a way to log the ftp sessions for my
>anonymous ftp server. Is there any way I can log information
>such as the users entry (ie the password)?
>
>
>Rodrigo:-)

mu config/server
select ftp
set log file accepts = file name


I cant remember all the syntax but this is the right idea.
=======================================================================
Matt Nowotny                                    CIR_JMN@VAX1.UTULSA.EDU
University of Tulsa - CIR
Zink Hall Rm.136
918-631-2366
X-Gateway-Source-Info: INTERNET
Date: 12 SEP 92 08:06:35 GMT
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.multinet
X-Return-path: <info-multinet-relay@TGV.COM>
X-RFC822-From:     adelman (Kenneth Adelman) @ TGV.COM
From: adelman@TGV.COM
Subject:  Announcing MultiNet V3.1 Rev D patch kit
Organization: The INFO-MULTINET Community

    A patch kit to update MultiNet V3.1 to Revision D is now available
for ANONYMOUS FTP from TGV.COM.  The file is ECO-AD031.A and should be
installed with VMSinstal.  If you do not plan on rebooting immediately
after installation, do NOT install it with the PURGE old files option.
A reboot is recommended to load the new changes as soon as possible
after installation.

    If you are already running Rev B or C, you can FTP the smaller
kit ECO-BD031.A.

    MultiNet V3.1 Rev D has a number of minor fixes:

	* New CONFIGURE.COM to replace the one broken by the
	  change to DEVICE_NAMES.TRANSLATION in Rev B.

	* Fixed problem in the NFS Server with create() operations
	  that fail never completing which causes the NFS Server
	  to eventually run out of RPC transports.

	* Fixed bug in RPCSTATUS code that would cause the master server
	  to ACCVIO if the number of IP cluster aliases exceeded three.

	* Use SKIPFILES, not SKIPRECORDS in RMTDRIVER.	This should allow
	  a user to BACKUP 1 saveset to a UNIX 8mm(ish) tape in spite of
	  its brain damage.

	* Fix to NFS Client IO$_DEACCESS to allow file protection to be
	  changed during deaccess.

	* Minor fix to NFS Client error status return from file delete
	  when privs are turned on.

	* Fixed RPC transport allocation in NFS Client so that if NFS
	  isn't registered with the portmapper we assume port 2049.

	* Fixed MULTINET_SMTP_SYMBIONT to workaround VMS A5.5 bug which
	  would cause the DEC PSM$ routines to ACCVIO when the symbiont
	  was shutdown.

	* Fixed RPC transport stuff so if we can't contact the quota
	  server we don't wait forever even if mounted /NOSOFT.

	* Fixed problem in NFS Client reading symbolic links past EOF
	  which would cause an accvio in data bcopy().

	* Fixed odd-byte-transfer problem in the NFS Server.

	* Fixed problem with duplicate label in START_MULTINET which
	  could cause a loop if certain drivers don't exist.

	* Suppress Lame Delegation messages in BIND

	* Fixed problem with SNMP query of the IP broadcast address.

	* Added support for reading ATR$C_ASCNAME and ATR$C_BACKLINK
	  to the NFS Client since some versions of BACKUP use them.

	* Fixed memory leak in async_gethostbyname().

							Ken
From: NED@INNOSOFT.COM (Ned Freed)
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.multinet
Subject: Re: POP3 server with PMDF personal aliases.
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:51:53 GMT
Organization: The INFO-MULTINET Community
X-Gateway-Source-Info: INTERNET
X-Return-path: <info-multinet-relay@TGV.COM>
X-RFC822-From: Ned Freed <NED@INNOSOFT.COM>
X-VMS-To: IN%"MCKEEVER@VAX2.CSTP.UMKC.EDU"
X-VMS-Cc: IN%"info-multinet@tgv.com"

The POP3 model is incapable of supporting personal aliases. There isn't
much that either Innosoft or TGV can do about it except try to get the
protocol enhanced, and I am already trying to do just that.

The fundamental problem is very simple. Neither POP2 or POP3 provide
a means to post messages. (IMAP doesn't either.) Remote clients therefore
have to use some other protocol to post, and that is usually SMTP. But
SMTP was never intended to be used as a posting protocol; it is designed
for MTA-MTA transfers. In particular SMTP has no provisions that would
let a user identify himself or herself. It is therefore intrinsically
impossible to know what personal alias database, if any, should be
associated with a given SMTP connection.

There are various ways to work around this. One is to use a different
posting protocol (but what?). Another is to enhance SMTP. Still another
is to add posting capabilities to POPx and/or IMAP. But all of these
things require protocol changes, and as such you're not likely to see
them deployed any time soon.

If anyone has any ideas in this area I'd like to discuss them further.

				Ned

X-Gateway-Source-Info: INTERNET
Date: 10 SEP 92 17:56:15 GMT
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.multinet
X-Return-path: <info-multinet-relay@TGV.COM>
X-RFC822-From:     adelman (Kenneth Adelman) @ TGV.COM
From: adelman@TGV.COM
Subject:  Re: "r" commands.
Organization: The INFO-MULTINET Community

>      So here I am trying to get RMT up.  The book says that for rdump
> etc to work rsh has to work.	Makes sense.  So I try a command from my
> Ultrix system to my VMS system as follows;

>      rsh nuhub -l johnson show time	 (or dir or whatever)

> The VMS system promptly returns "Permission denied."	I know this
> because I grabbed the packets with FTP's LANWATCH.

    Here is the generic trick to debugging "R" service authentication
problems:

    *  Always be reply/enable'd in another window on the VMS machine
       through these tests.  The following tricks are based on no
       messages appearing via OPCOM.  If any errors appear via OPCOM,
       then they explain the problem.
    *  Always debug the problem with RLOGIN, not RSHELL.
    *  Always flush the cache with $ MULTINET NETCONTROL RLOGIN FLUSH
       after changing any configuration files.

    First, rlogin from the UNIX machine to the VMS machine and supply
a password if the validation files. Do a SHOW TERMINAL to see what
machine name you've come from, and put this name in the .RHOSTS file.
If the machine name is shown in SHOW TERMINAL as an IP address, then
you have a DNS or host table problem and need to fix this an restart
the MULTINET_SERVER before proceeding.

>      Rlogin to the VMS machine to my account gives two deferent responses
> depending on how I do it;

>      rlogin nuhub

> asks for a password which I give and fails.  However,

>      rlogin nuhub -l johnson

> asks for a password which I give and works.  I tried with and without
> .rhosts in my directory and get the same results.  The Ultrix account
> was the same username, johnson.  The .rhosts file has the name of the
> Ultrix system as I see in SHOW TERMINAL after login.

>      Reply/enable=net gets me nothing at all.

>      I flushed the cache.  No help.

>      What's this about nothing in login.com printing?  Every login.com I
> run here prints and for good reasons.  What's the problem with this?

>      Have I missed anything?	The book seems to indicate that the 'r'
> commands should just work when MULTINET is running.

    Sounds like you've tried everything. Is the account enabled for
all types of access? Are you sure your UNIX username was "johnson"
at the time? Can you duplicate the behavior of the password working
only when you specify "-l johnson"?

							Ken
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.multinet
Subject: Logical disk on Sun for microVAX ??
From: jolse@dswe.navy.mil.nz (James Olsen)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 04:36:54 GMT
Organization: Royal New Zealand Navy.


At our site we have a DEC MicrovaxII (running VAX/VMS 5.5, MultiNet 3.1) linked over ethernet to a Sun SPARCserver 4/490 (running SUNOS 4.1.1). We are having trouble with Multinet working between these machines to our specific requirements.

What we require is to have a directory mounted from the Sun server onto the Microvax using NFS Client. This directory will not be used from the Sun side (unix), but will be used exclusively as another "device" on the Microvax.

We have mounted the SUN directory with the following command:
NFSMOUNT/SEMANT=NOSTR/VOL=R76DISK cruiser::"/usr6/r76disk" R76DISK

There are some differences in behaviour between r76disk and a physical Vax disk, which we are trying to resolve.

1.  files copied or restored from a backup to r76disk lose their creation dates.

2.  files restored from backups to r76disk get execute permission for system added to their file protection.

3.  files copied to r76disk always get default file permissions regardless of what file permissions they had to start with.

Does anybody know whether it is possible to do what we want?
If so, any suggestions on how to do this would be appreciated.

----------------------------------------------------
James Olsen, Lt RNZN   email: olsen@dswe.navy.mil.nz
telephone: +64-4-4960-725  facsimile: +64-4-4960-311
----------------------------------------------------
My opinions are not necessarily those of my employer
----------------------------------------------------