From: levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine)
Subject: Re: Choosing Dangerous Relationships (was: How to Protect Women)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:07:20 GMT

sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:

>In article <C06rFH.FFz@news.cso.uiuc.edu> levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine) writes:
>>
>>For a self-professed skeptic, you seem very naive in this particular
>>case. It seems likely that Ms. Givens' interest in Mr. Tyson
>>was economic, not sexual or romantic. But is she going to admit
>>in print, "I married the richest sucker I could get!"

>So, Robin Givens, the successful model and actress, whose yearly earnings
>almost certainly exceed those of ANY of us "ordinary folk", said in
>essence, "I'm gunna marry this *rich* sucker, even if I'm not particularly
>attracted to him, and even if he DOES have a tendency to beat me up! Cause
>I crave his money, you see." Get real! 

See Vanity Fair. And marrying Tyson certainly was a good career move.

>>One thing I will admit: Women of all ages and political
>>convictions often prefer lovers who seem strong, capable and powerful.
>>*Some* women see evil as powerful and are hence attracted to evil men; 
>>they are the ones who write mash letters to convicted murders. 
>>That was, perhaps, the woman you saw on television when the police 
>>carried off the "Butcher of Buenos Aires" (who had been hiding in the 
>>Bay Area), begging them not to take him. 

>And perhaps we see here a hint of the *hidden* story of men and violence,
>a story that feminists hope will stay buried. Would this villain have
>been so beloved by women had he been the "bookworm of Buenos Aires"?
>When violent and abusive male behavior is rewarded by women with the 
>*sweetest* of possible rewards, it's kind of pointless to go off blaming
>men, without also considering womens' roles in encouraging and rewarding
>the extremes of machismo.

*Many* women would have preferred the "bookworm of Buenos Aires"...
including most of my female friends.

>>But other women see good as powerful -- not only consciously,
>>but subconsciously. I know I'm one of them; and for that reason
>>I often find kind and ethical behavior a turnon. I remember a
>>few years ago a male coworker showed himself to be unexpectedly
>>kind and perceptive. I had a dream that night, that I was
>>going to bed with him; and in the morning I found I was
>>thinking about him sexually although I never had before. Well,
>>I prayed for the thoughts to go away, because I knew he
>>wasn't attracted to me and I wasn't, really, attracted to
>>him. And in a few days the thoughts did, indeed, disappear. But that
>>passing incident taught me a lot about my own psychology.

>Yes. In other words, for a short time, you had an erotic dream about
>a "nice guy." But then you came back to your normal self, and lost
>interest in him. Presumably you didn't tell him how you felt about
>him; perhaps this might have changed how the two of you feel.
>A lot of good all this nicety-niceness did HIM; all it
>got him was an erotic dream in somebody else's head. It still didn't
>get him a girlfriend. If it did, we'd start to see a lot more of it.
>But since it doesn't, it's behavior men are going to have to 
>start unlearning.

Why do you assume my more serious interests have different motivations?
I just said they *didn't*.

Lenore Levine