HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Re: Thai boxing (boxing and kicks)
Summary: Neato - more good bareknuckle matches
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 11 SEP 92 12:04:56    


psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes...
> 
>BTW, have any of you seen a tape by a guy named Marco Lala.  He is in
>impressive shape and fights in some bareknuckle, full-contact fights.  I
>really had to respect his technique, although here again, there wasn't much
>to do with inside techniques, or at least you couldn't seem them in his
>matches.  

Peter, could you describe how the matches went ?  Were they similar in
format to the Gracie bareknuckle matches ?  What kind of opponents, and how 
did they tend to finish up ?  Kick knoockouts, hand knockout, joint locks,
stalemates ?

							todd
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Model Mugging (long)
Date: 12 Sep 92 06:34:20 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <BuF0qw.3BD@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) writes:
>Andy V. seems to agree with Bobby Knight's statement that sometimes
>women should just "lay back and enjoy it", rape that is.

I don't recall his saying anything of the sort.

He did, however, question the methiods of "model mugging", and point 
out some parts of the program that might get a woman into serious
trouble if the attacker had some experience with fighting.

                                                    Frank Crary
                                                    CU Boulder
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst")
Subject: Attitudes (wasRe- Silent or 
Distribution: world
Organization: IE Technical Services Holland
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 11:10:51 +0000


In article <lat674INNlpl@west.west.sun.com> garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM writes:

>
>In article 715906716snx@ietech.demon.co.uk, nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G.> Backhurst") writes:
>
>>
>>Pure kiai can stop an attacker totally, they will freeze, even
>>fall over.  I know this can be done from my own experience.
>>
>
>Not that I don't believe you, but I would dearly love to see this,
>it has too much the flavor of people who claim they can "project"
>ki and hit their opponent.  Where can I go (either in Washington, or
>in the San Fran. Bay area), to see this use of kiai?
>
It is not supernatural.  If anything it is mostly pschological, being
based a lot of reflex reactions.  Unfortunately the only people I know
who have knowledge in this area are all in Europe, which is where
I am based.

>>
>>Because of its very nature, the use of kiai puts the practitioner
>>at a major disadvantage if it does not work.  Therefore, it can
>>only be used once in combat.  This is very different from the
>>approach used in modern martial arts.
>
>I have not noticed this, but then again, it sounds like we are talking
>about different types of kiai.
>
We clearly are.  The kiai I am talking about is the spirit cry or
shout.  As it is reliant on shock and reaction for its effect, is only
effective when totally unexpected.  This means that there must be no
sign from the defender that there is going to be a counter.  Kiai is
made, then the defense technique is done.  If the kiai does not work
and the attacker does not `freeze' you have a situation where the
attack has advanced and you have not started a counter.  Also all
suprise is lost so it cannot be used again.  If you tried it it would
not work.

Nigel


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nigel Backhurst ( nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk )
c/o 88 Ashburton Road, Hugglescote, Coalville, LE6 2LX, U.K.
p/a IE Technical Services Holland, Deventerstr 150, 7321 CE Apeldoorn
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: westreic@oc.nps.navy.mil (Eric Westreich)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Upcoming Tournaments
Date: 9 Sep 92 23:23:20 GMT
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA

In article <1992Sep8.231919.9380@enterprise.rdd.lmsc.lockheed.com> wincor@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com writes:
>Does anybody have a list of upcoming tournaments in the Bay Area?
>San Francisco, San Jose, etc.  I have a group of kids that have 
>just started learning the arts that would like to try a tournament out.
>
>Thanks
>Steve

SATURDAY   OCTOBER 3, 1992

NAVAL POSTGRADUATE SCHOOL, MONTEREY, CA

VETERANS CLASSIC OPEN MARTIAL ARTS TOURNAMENT

OPEN TO ALL STYLES

TOURNAMENT DIRECTOR: KEEBOM KANG

10:00   FORMS

12:00   WEAPONS KATAS

12:30   MARTIAL ARTS DEMONSTRATIONS

1:00    SPARRING

SPECTATOR FEE: $2.00

$25 ONE EVENT, $30 TWO EVENTS ($5.00 DISCOUNT FOR REGISTRATION
                               BEFORE SEP 25, 1992)

FULL SAFETY GEAR REQUIRED: HEADGEAR, MOUTHPIECE, HAND PADS, FOOT PADS, GROIN CUP

FOR MORE INFORMATION CONTACT:

		DAVE DAMPIER: (408) 649-4559
			      383F BERGIN DR.
			      MONTEREY, CA 93940
                              dampier@cs.nps.navy.mil

		ERIC WESTREICH: (408) 372-1821
                                 westreic@oc.nps.navy.mil
From: gints@roadkill.esd.sgi.com (Gints Klimanis)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: *********************** Help with flexibility ****************
Date: 8 Sep 92 01:02:31 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <60135@mimsy.umd.edu>, tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift,
not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:
|> c8908461@jupiter.newcastle.edu.au (Robert Lang) writes:
|> >
|> >In addition to all that, I've recently aimed at increasing my
|> stretch and
|> >it is dramatically increasing.
|> >
|> >my plan : morning dynamic stretches & 3 times a week or more
|> complete
|> >dynamic & static stretch workout.
|> 
|>      So what is this "dynamic" stretching I keep hearing about? 

Examples of dynamic stretching for the legs are controlled, full-range
swings of the leg, in sets progressing from short to long range swings. 
In Stretching Scientifically, Tom Kurz describes neurons sensitive to
the *magnitude* of muscle fiber extension and neurons sensitive to the
*velocity* of the muscle fiber extension.  Dynamic stretching trains the
velocity-sensing neurons to allow greater magnitude stretches during
motion.  Kurz recommends dynamic pre-workout stretches and static
(isometric, passive and active) stretches after a workout.

Routine seems to adhere to human principle of adaptability:  use it or lose it.
Odd phenomenon:  a pre-training 15 minute dynamic workout (5 minute run
plus 10 minutes dynamic stretches)  yields a better and longer duration
flexibility than my no-longer-to-be-done 45 minute pre-training static
stretch workout.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cc@cowan.fishkill.ibm.com (Chris Cowan)
Subject: Re: Styles in Bloodsport?
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 14:55:51 GMT
Reply-To: cc@vnet.ibm.com
Organization: Pough, NY
Keywords: Monkey KungFu, Frank Dux


In article <8SEP199201222776@cs.umass.edu>, rcollins@cs.umass.edu (Bob
Collins) writes:
|> 
|>    >>(Ken Ferguson) writes:
|>    >>
|>    >>      That was monkey Kung Fu. The person you saw was none other 
|>    >> than the great Paulie Zink. A monkey Kung Fu master.
|> 
|>  > Richard A. Drury:
|>  > I haven't seen Blood Sport in a long time, but I recall the monkey
|>  > stylist was non-Caucasian whereas Zink is a white guy.  Then again,
|>  > my aging memory could be playing tricks again.  Anyone else know
|>  > for sure (about the monkey stylist, not my memory)?
|> 
|> 
|> I just watched Bloodsport again, and the "monkey stylist" was
|> a tall black man, and I didn't see the name Paulie Zink in the
|> credits.  I have seen a short Caucasian playing Monkey KungFu
|> in some movie -- it may have been "BloodFist".

I am a student in a Northern Mantis school.  Because of our close 
association with the Monkey school, we have a picture of Paul Zink on
the wall.  I have seen "Bloodsport" several times and am certain
that Paul does not appear in that movie.  (I believe he is located in 
Germany.  He definitely looks German, BTW!)

Speaking of Monkey style, I have heard that the movie "Tiger Claw(?)"
(Bolo and Cynthia Rothrock are in it) has a segment with a good
demonstration of "Drunken Monkey" style.   I haven't been able to find a 
copy, yet.   Anyone else seen it?
 
Chris Cowan 

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: Attitudes (wasRe- Silent or 
Organization: National Institutes of Health
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 03:02:35 GMT

In article nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst") writes:
>Pure kiai can stop an attacker totally, they will freeze, even
>fall over.  I know this can be done from my own experience.  It is
>said that the masters (fortunately apparently very few) can go a
>lot further.  This I can believe because in Han there is a similar
>tradition of a `spirit shout', which it is reputed could kill.

Sound can certainly be used as a weapon.  E.g., the flash-bang
grenades used by anti-terrorist forces are highly disorienting.  
But the idea that anyone can kiai in such a way as to
consistently knock down determined attackers (let alone kill
them) strikes me as pretty far-fetched.  Am I being too narrow
minded about this?  If you think so, is it just because you like 
to keep an open mind about such things, or do you have some 
actual experience with these uses of kiai?
--
Richard A. Drury
drury@helix.nih.gov
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: women MAs and control
Date: 15 Sep 92 14:45:08 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Sep14.222422.4656@morrow.stanford.edu> CA.FER@forsythe.stanford.edu (Jennifer Gates) writes:
>I have a theory about why most MAs don't work as well for women as
>they do for men. I would be interested in other peoples experiences
>that support or contradict this theory...Most men (not all) are very good
>at using full power/energy but lack control. Most women are good at control 
>but have serious social blocks on using power. 

	My experience does not support this theory.  Untrained females might
give the impression of having better control because they are less willing
to commit to an attack, or because they can generate less power, but they have
no more real control than their male counterparts. 

	I was teaching a young woman how to do a hip throw.  She did it
right and because she had *no* *control* threw me way up in the air, lost
her balance, and fell on top of me.  It was much more painful than ippon
by a skilled black belt, since she had no idea how to make the fall more
comfortable for her partner.  In general, working with beginners is much
more painful than working with advanced students of either sex, partly 
because they sometimes know techniques but haven't learned how to control
them.

>Model Mugging teaches women to release their power. They only teach

	I think that "spirit" or "ki" might be a better word than "power".



Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cschum@engin.umich.edu (Corey Joseph Schumacher)
Subject: Re: TKD advice
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 09:47:47 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <1992Sep13.131637.1@news.duc.auburn.edu> mautzcl@news.duc.auburn.edu writes:
>
>
>hello.  I am a new reader to this newsgroup, and I was wondering if anyone
>could help me answer a question.  I am currently in college, and am considering
>starting up again in a MA.  When I was in High School, I took Choi Kwang Do,
>but now being on a much restrained budget, am thinking about taking Tae Kwan
>Do.  My school offers a TKD club, and I wondered if anybody had any 
>experience to the quality of tuition available through a club as opposed to
>a regular TKD school, of which we have 2 or 3.  I guess what I'm asking is is
>it worth it to start out in a club-type atmosphere, which would definately be
>less expensive, or better to just go to a dojo.  Any advice?  Any regrets?
>
>
>thanks
>
>chip
>

It all depends on the quality of instruction at your club.
At the University of Michigan, the TKD club has some very high-ranking,
experienced, and good instructors.  I think it was better than most
dojangs I could have gone to.  But, if your club has a brown belt and
a couple of his/her friends teaching, you'd probably be better off 
somewhere else.

Corey
  
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Re: Power and Internal MA (Re: Boxing and Kicks)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date:  9 SEP 92 13:53:34    


schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan) writes...
> 
>	I think that you end up with the same power, but it much harder to
>develop the internal style power generation - my exposure to internal systems
>seems to emphasize late commitment, and generating power in the smallest
>possible movement. If you have early commit, and big motions, it's much easier
>for a trained opponent to break your timing. Power is sacrificed in the
>beginning so that you have a much more "inscrutable" method of generating it
>later on.

Pretty much coincides with my experience as well.  Most good well rounded
fighters I've seen use a combination of internal and external power
generation principles, using external primarily for outfighting, and internal 
obviously mostly at close range, or at least that's where you recognize their 
effect.   I think developing the cadence to blend the two types of principles
effectively is probably one of the highest arts there is for a pugilist.

Interesting to note that even in the Western boxing form, as well as the 
Chinese pugilism, recognizable internal principles are often stressed in 
infighting, although some of the other aspects, like Chi Gong and Dim Muk are 
obviously missing or lost or so different in their expression as not to be
recognizable as such.

						kind regards,

							todd
From: culy@spot.Colorado.EDU (CULY STEVEN WAYNE)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: TKD advice
Date: 13 Sep 92 22:04:58 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

mautzcl@news.duc.auburn.edu writes:
>  ...
>Do.  My school offers a TKD club, and I wondered if anybody had any 
>experience to the quality of tuition available through a club as opposed to
>a regular TKD school, of which we have 2 or 3.  I guess what I'm asking is is
>it worth it to start out in a club-type atmosphere, which would definately be
>less expensive, or better to just go to a dojo.  Any advice?  Any regrets?

While I can't speak for all university-associated TKD (or other MA) clubs,
I will put in a plug for our club at the University of Colorado.  We are 
associated with the United States Tae Kwon Do Federation, and are considered
to be one of the best schools in the federation.  We had two students 
qualify for the USTF national team in 1990, and we have two alternates 
on the team this year.

One reason why the cost can be cheaper in a university club is that we 
don't have to rent a studio.  Another is that, in our club, students 
are expected to volunteer for some extra club support projects that 
might not be required at another school (no free lunches here :-).

Any regrets?  Not a one!  I'm an impoverished graduate student at CU, and 
even allowing for the fact that it would have been difficult to afford 
training otherwise, I still think that the experience has been 
well worth it.  I'm sure that there are university clubs out there 
that aren't very good, but I think that it's worth a try.
One additional thing you might check is whether the club you're interested in
is affiliated with some larger organizion, or what the head instructor's 
qualifications are.

Ultimately, you're the best judge for what is right for you... 

Good luck

Steve Culy
Department of Physics
University of Colorado

Disclaimer:  CU only has opionions about things that involve money...
From: roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com (Robert Stroud)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Too Silent, Too Vocal
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:31:27 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

In article <lavukkINNk4n@west.west.sun.com> garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM writes:
>>|>
>>|>Well, once again showing how different everything is, what you say
>>|>here doesn't hold true with my art(s).  From where I some from, if you
>>|>kiai'd every time you attacked (one for each attack), you would end
>>|>up fainting...we work on mutliple fast attacks...I don't know of too
>>|>many people who have enough breath to give 4 or 5 good kiais in a row
>>|>without inhaling...so kiaiing for at each attack would not work for us.
>>
 
  In kendo (Japanese Fencing) you delivery many attacks and use kia
  to adjust your breathing.  You still have to breath in as well as
  out.  You need to learn when to do each for two reasons.  First proper
  breath control will allow the generation of power. And second breathing
  at the wrong time will give your opponent an opportunity to attack you.
 
>>There are times that you must be quiet also. Figure it out.
    In kendo kata we only kia once if attacking or once if defending.  
    Like judo our kata requires two people.  In iaido (which is very much
    like kata) there is no kia.
>
>Guess I chopped out the part that I was responding to...not to smart I
>must admit. Robert had said that in his style, he Kiai's on every attack.  
>I was just commenting that this would not be possible with my style,
>where you might deliver as many as 5 or 6 attacks in a row, as fast as you
>can.  Kiaing on the first, or last, attack, or both makes sence, but
>on all of them...even if you made it one Looonggggg Kiai (which is improper
>Kiaiing in my book), it would be tough.
>
  We have one practice drill called keri kaeshi were 10 hits are made with
  a single breath. 4 forward, 5 backward and 1 forward.  It really doesn't
  take any more effort than if you do all 10 with an inhale between.       

  I think one problem people are having with this kia discussion has to do
  with silent kia versus voiced kia.  All actions have kia (ie proper breathing)
  when done corrently.  If you choose to make noise or not is the difference.
  For instance when I make a men strike (hit to the head) I exhale the same
  when I make noise and when I don't.  The air control is important.  But if
  kia is audible it can do more psychological work on your opponent.  

  For another point of reference.  Look as professional singers they use 
  breath control to generate powerful (and beautiful) sounds.
-- 
Robert Stroud
Obukan Kendo Club
Portland Oregon USA
roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: style help?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:29:45 GMT

In article <1685D13040.R3TLM@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU> R3TLM@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU writes:
>I have experienced several different styles in my time as
>a martial artist. I have yet to find the style for me. I wanted to
>ask if anyone knew of any particular styles that had the same sense
>of physical meditation as Tai Chi, but had a little more apparent use
>in the real world. 

Bagua (Pa Kua) or Hsing I, they are both quite closely related to Tai Chi,

                                                          Frank Crary
                                                          CU Boulder
From: geg@beep.mis.semi.harris.com (Gregory E. Garland)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: spooky kiaiissssss
Date: 10 Sep 92 13:58:40 GMT
Organization: Manufacturing Systems, HSS

In article <1992Sep10.121552.2449@relay.nswc.navy.mil>, snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt) writes:

|> 
|> Those in throwing/grappling styles might well be advised to not
|> practice kihaps, I have this BAD habit of kihapiing when I hit the
|> ground and haven't bit my tongue off.....yet.  Has anyone been
|> tought to keep the tongue stuck to the roof of the mouth when
|> being thrown? 
|> 

Not true, you'd _better_ give a good kiai when you're hitting the mat
while a 200+ pounder is coming down on top of you if you expect to get
up any time soon...

-- 
Greg Garland - Alive, occupying space, and exerting gravitational force

MS 62-024, Harris Semiconductor Sector, PO Bx 883, 
Melbourne  FL 32905.  geg@beep.mis.semi.harris.com

"Never let the facts interfere with your perception of reality."
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ras@athena.mit.edu (Richard A Shandross)
Subject: Re: Model Mugging (long)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 22:54:47 GMT


In article <1992Sep12.165701.6027@craycos.com> sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi) writes:
>
>I think MM *does* do one thing right - it allows women to hit an
>assailant and hit him *hard*. This is a Good Thing (tm). But *no* short
>course is going to give you the kind of repeated drill that transforms
>a technique into an instinctive response. If you're attacked, you're going
>to be scared (*really* scared), probably exhausted, and almost certainly
>injured (and I don't think they allow the "model mugger" to hit back, now
>do they?). You won't be thinking clearly, in fact you probably won't be
>thinking at all. Any response that has to be *remembered* - that isn't
>absolutely instinctive and automatic - isn't going to work under those
>circumstances. Bluffing is a very dangerous game. I don't recommend it 
>when your life is at stake.
>

Why do people go around doing so much assuming?  Why don't people just *ask*?

It's one of the great virtues of MM that it specifically teaches one to fight
through one's fears.  Regardless of whether the student has previously been
attacked, there is real and intense fear generated by the model mugger.  In
many cases, women mentally vacate the premises, so paralyzed with fear are
they... until they get through the course.  And (anticipating the assumptions
which are going to be made) it is not because they get convinced that the model
mugger will not hurt them by that time; intense fear remains, but one learns to
fight regardless. (cf. article 22477, by the way)

As for the mugger hitting back, that is done, but of course not in the first
few classes.  The students are given a chance to build up some skills first.
Students do sometimes get hurt in the training; for example a friend of mine
sustained a muscle bruise and a neck twist, and a pretty hard smack to the head
too.  It's also worth pointing out that the muggers not only don't fake about
what would be a knockout blow, but in fact make sure that the student has
accumulated 2-3 or more knockout blows before calling the fight over.  

As to the question of "remembering techniques", this is muscle memory, not
mental technique memorization.  I saw a graduation, and two things convinced me
of that.  First, their comment that women who take no more training still are
effective as shown by a graduate who successfully defended herself 8 years
later.  Second, in the graduation, where there were 2 muggers present, quite a
few times the "idle" mugger would do a surprise sneak attack on 
(instructors and) students.  I didn't expect it, but the women were noticibly
better when surprised - they didn't have time to think or get nervous; they
responded by reflex. 

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: zwbm07@hou.amoco.com (Walter Moore)
Subject: Re: Model Mugging (long)
Reply-To: zwbm07@hou.amoco.com
Organization: Amoco
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 12:58:26 GMT

Better yet, does anyone know the address & phone number of Model Mugging in
Houston, TX (I couldn't find it in the phone book)? 

If not, does any one know the phone number to the headquarters of Model Mugging?
(Thanks to Natalie for the address of the Headquarters)

---
TTYL & TANSTAAFL ---------------- Walter Moore 
      Internet: zwbm07@hou.amoco.com

..SCUBA divers do it with depth...blub...blub...blub...

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts