HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rshapiro@bbn.com (Richard Shapiro)
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: unsubstantiated charges of racism (was: Euro bias in Penguin Guide)
Date: 28 Jan 93 16:35:00 GMT
Organization: BBN, Cambridge MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: kariba.bbn.com
In-reply-to: tygar+@cs.cmu.edu's message of Thu, 28 Jan 1993 14:59:46 GMT

In article <C1KKBs.D4I.1@cs.cmu.edu> tygar+@cs.cmu.edu (Doug Tygar) writes:
>   (Koglmann's notes go on in this vein, praising ``white rationality'' over
>   ``black emotionalism'' for several more paragraphs.)


The quoted phrases do not appear in your more extended excerpt from
Koglmann. Do they in fact appear anywhere in Koglmann's notes to his
"openly racist work"? These are pretty loaded phrases, and if Koglmann
didn't say them, I would say you've been *very* careless in your
rhetoric. If he did say them, I'd be interested to see the context in
which they appear.


From your excerpt, Koglmann appears to be saying something quite
different and much less controversial -- that his music isn't really
jazz and wouldn't be likely to satisfy the demands that many jazz fans
make of that music: eg, swing, direct emotional expressivity, "the
spontaneous joy of improvising". I don't think there's much doubt that
these are among the more significant factors in the appeal of jazz,
regardless of the race of the performer. Certainly all three of these
are very common criteria used by jazz reviewers in evaluating the
music.


Koglmann appears to be explaining the simple fact that he, as an
individual musician, has other things in mind. I don't see any racism
there. You certainly haven't shown anything remotely like racism in
your quoted excerpt.
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
From: dbidwa@sei.cmu.edu (Daniel Bidwa)
Subject:  Re: Zorn: Spillane and the recent Japanese releases
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:35:39 EST

Joe Hellerstein (hellers@cs.wisc.edu) writes:
[in regard to Zorn's SPY vs. SPY]
>(Which is something I never understood about serious thrash fans --
>how does this stuff stay interesting in the long run?)

Well, as this group's token thrash fan (ahem :-), I think I can safely say
that it has everything to do with texture, and very little to do with melody.
That said, I'll now confuse things by saying that melody does play a big part;
but it's melody as established by repetition or rhythm rather than a more
typical (for this newsgroup, at least) sense of melody. (My basic take on the
"typical" view of melody: you can hum it.) I suppose that I could just say
that it's the rhythm that makes it interesting, but that's not completely
correct; or at least it doesn't cover the nuances of what I'm trying to say
(whatever that is -- bear with me). More than any other kind of music, I think
thrash lives or dies by its texture. I like different thrash bands because of
their overall sound, much the same way that I like different free ensembles
because of their sound.

Sorry if this doesn't make much sense; I've never bothered to really analyze
it before. I think that too much analysis tends to crush this sort of music,
or any sort of similarly instinctive music -- if someone's conciously thinking
about it too much, the music is going to reflect it. It's a problem I have
with some of Zorn's thrash-infatuated jazz: it sounds like it's coming from
his head, not his heart. (For instance, I think that Painkiller suffers from a
near fatal case of this.)

Once you get over the velocity, there's only a fine line between blurcore and
free jazz.

Dan
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
dbidwa@sei.cmu.edu                                   you call this a hamburger?
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
From: tygar+@cs.cmu.edu (Doug Tygar)
Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman discs ?
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:33:22 GMT

In article <1993Jan16.185004.24912@news.cs.brandeis.edu> rardin@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
>In article <1j9963INN47l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu>, ujwb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jeff Beer) writes:
>>I think the most essential Ornette recording is In All Languages, since
>>you have both Prime Time and the Quartet playing a lot of the same
>>material.  I don't think this is available on CD any more, but you still
>>might find it.  The Jazz Record Mart is selling it on vinyl still, but
>>they say it is out of print.  You can mail order from the Jazz Record
>>Mart in Chicago if you must have it.
>
>I think IAL is available on CD in Germany.  I'm pretty sure I saw it listed 
>in the CD International catalog as being available somewhere in Europe.

Apparently, that title has now been deleted in the UK and Germany.  I'd be
very interested in anyone has information on an available CD version of this
title.  Thanks!
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
From: esimon@wd.estec.nl (Erik Simonsen)
Subject: PMG "SECRET STORY TOUR" Europe 1993
Reply-To: esimon@wd.estec.esa.nl
Organization: ESA/ESTEC
Date: 21 Jan 93 14:27:00 GMT

The European PMG fan club informs in it's newsletter nr. 14 that the "SECRET 
STORY TOUR" 1993 is reaching Europe in April / May. 

As per December 1992 the program was the following:

April 	1 Helsinki
	3 Stockholm
	4 Oslo
	6 Copenhagen
	8 Bremen
	9 Utrecht
	10 Rotterdam
	12 Edinborough
	13 Manchester
	14 Bermingham (maybe)
	15, 16 London
	18 Brussels
	19, 20 Paris
	22 Milano
	23 Rome
	24 Naples
	26 Bolzano
	29 Frankfurt
	30 Dusseldorf
May	1 Mannheim
	2 Munich
	3 Stuttgart
	5 Berlin
	6 Hannover
	7 Hamburg
	8 Bielefeld

Afterward Spain and maybe Poland.

For anybody interested, the address of the European PMG fan-club is:

	Pat Metheny Group Fan-Club
	c/o Marek Komar
	Ihringshausserstraat 5
	D-3500 Kassel
	GERMANY
	Tel. 0561-876191, Fax 0561/876153

Regards and enjoy,

	Erik Simonsen
	esimon@wd.estec.esa.nl



--
Erik Simonsen, ESA/ESTEC WDP                __  __   _  European
Postbus 299, 2200 AG Noordwijk             /_  (_   /_| Space
Phone: +31 1719 83133 Fax: +31 1719 84295 /__  __) /  | Agency
E-mail: esimon@wd.estec.esa.nl           =======================
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
From: rardin@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (R. Lynn Rardin)
Subject: Re: Steps Ahead - need info
Reply-To: rardin@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 05:19:14 GMT

In article <SMEHTA.93Jan22145124@kwela.nynexst.com>, smehta@kwela.nynexst.com (Sandeep Mehta) writes:
>
>> avi@Warren.MENTORG.COM (Avi Ziv) writes:
>> I am desperately searching for a Steps live album which I heard on tape.
>> I think it is called something like "Smokin' in the Pit"...
>
>It is an import and, to my knowledge, out of print. My vinyl copy is:
>Nippon Columbia YB 7010-11-ND released in 1981. I also remember it
>being a bit overpriced.

I believe SMOKIN' IN THE PIT is still available on the Japanese Better Days 
label as a 2 CD set (CY-2865~66).  Sandeep is right about it being expensive.  
I think it was priced at something like $40 the last time I saw it at Tower.  
The album was recorded in 1980 and at that time, Steps featured Mike Mainieri, 
Mike Brecker, Steve Gadd, Don Grolnick and Eddie Gomez.  Great group, IMHO.  
Also check out PARADOX (CY-2868) and STEP BY STEP (CY-2867), also both on 
Better Days.  The same personnel are featured on both P and SBS, except that 
Peter Erskine plays drums on PARADOX in place of Gadd.

BTW, it's possible that these recordings may be reissued domestically by Mike 
Mainieri's new NYC label.  There was a note in his most recent Steps Ahead 
release on NYC that said something about his label releasing old Steps 
recordings that had never been released in the U.S...

-Lynn  (rardin@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu)
From: jerry@hnrc.tufts.edu (Jerry Dallal)
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
Subject: Re: 5 minute hamlet - poor hamlet
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:16:32 GMT
Organization: USDA HNRC at Tufts University

Our Hamlet, recently recorded by Roberts and Barrand on their new CD.
From: jgreely@morganucodon.cis.ohio-state.edu (J Greely)
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
Subject: Re: Four Bitchin' Babes II
Date: 28 Jan 1993 14:18:41 -0500
Organization: Ohio State University Computer and Information Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: morganucodon.cis.ohio-state.edu
In-reply-to: nelson@desktop.nsc.com's message of 25 Jan 93 17:39:53 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.173953.16969@berlioz.nsc.com> nelson@desktop.nsc.com
 (Taed Nelson) writes:
>I haven't seen any mention of it, but there is a second Four Bitchin' Babes
>  album:

...and I've been trying to find it since Tuesday.

  Does this by any chance have Lavin/Fingerett's "Dear Dan" on it?  At
the Antioch concert, they *swore* they had just recorded it. (this is,
of course, a Murphy Brown/Dan Quayle song, lots of fun)
-- 
J Greely (jgreely@cis.ohio-state.edu; osu-cis!jgreely)
From: amigan@cup.portal.com (Mike - Medwid)
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
Subject: Unicorn Lyrics Requested
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 10:35:52 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

	I've been unable to find the lyrics to the Unicorn song in any local
music shops.  I know the first verse and chorus, it goes..

"A long time ago
 When the earth was green
 There were more kinds of animals
 Than you'd ever seen

 They'd run around free
 While the earth was bein' born
 But the loveliest of all
 Was the Unicorn
 <chorus>
 There were green aligators
 And long neceked geese
 The hump-ti-backed camels 
 And the chimpanzees

 There were cats and rats elephants
 As sure as you're born
 But the loveliest of all
 Was the unicorn"

That's all I know.  I know that there's a whole story in the song and
that the song ends "..and that's why you never seen a unicorn today <chorus>"

So if anyone can help, I'd appreciate it.  Please e-mail.

amigan@cup.portal.com

-Mike
From: pavlovic@ehsc.orst.edu (James Pavlovich)
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
Subject: Re: song of Carrol's "Jabberwocky"
Date: 26 Jan 93 00:15:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: ehsc.pavlovic.29.728007356
Organization: Environmental Health Sciences Center, Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: massspec2-0073-e.als.orst.edu

In article <1993Jan25.225133.19643@crd.ge.com> kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover) writes:

>In particular, it appears that Jabberwocky (along with almost
>everything else 8-) can be coerced in to scanning to
>Greensleeves...

As I remember it from my days in the church choir,  Greensleeves is in 
"common meter doubled".  So you'd have to pack the verses two for one as 
Jabberwocky is in common meter.  Amazing grace is in common meter and so is 
House of the Rising Sun.  We used to love to drive our choir director nuts 
by singing various lyrics to any new hymntune we found in common meter or 
vice versa.  My favorite was always Jabberwocky to the tune of House of the 
Rising Sun.  As you can see I have a fascination for that poem.

JGP
From: Lindsay.Marshall@newcastle.ac.uk (Lindsay F. Marshall)
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
Subject: Re: The Monster Dog Doo Doo Band??
Date: 28 Jan 93 09:37:30 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU

The Bonzo's were simply one of the best bands around in their time.
They had many fine musicians and were very, very funny. Some of the
people who were in the band :

Vivian Stanshill
Neil Innes
"Legs" Larry Smith (drums and tap dancing)
Vernon Dudley Bohay Milne

My mind has gone blank.....

Best songs :

"Can blue Men sing the whites"
The whole Keynsham album

L. (who has all the Bonzo's records)

MAIL :	Lindsay.Marshall@newcastle.ac.uk
POST :	Computing Laboratory, The University, Newcastle upon Tyne, UK NE1 7RU
VOICE:	+44-91-222-8267
FAX  :	+44-91-222-8572
From: lanih@herald.Berkeley.EDU (J. Lani Herrmann)
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
Subject: Re: Arkansas music
Date: 21 Jan 1993 17:53:24 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: herald.berkeley.edu

Well, for starters there are a raft of "slurs on states" songs, where
the structure of the song is something like --
	First line saying something funny-peculiar (or nasty)
		In (your state's name here)
	Second line, probably rhyming, maybe not
		In (your state's name here)
Some of them even have a chorus or refrain.
     Lou and Peter Berryman have even written a song called "(Your State's 
	Name Here)."

Some recorded examples that leap to mind (i.e. I hear the voices in my head):
	Almeda Riddle's "Down in Arkansas"
		refrain: Down in Arkan, down in Arkan, down in Arkansas
			(repeat second line of verse)
			Down in Arkansas.
	John Cohen of the New Lost City Ramblers sings a version of "The
		Buffalo Hunters" which ends something like : 
		"... and I'll hand to you my paw,
		...but it'll be from the other end of a telescope
		From here to Arkansas."
	I just listened to one of the Newport Folk Festival albums which
	has the great cowboy singer Glenn Ohrlin singing such verses as
		They chaw tobacco thin in Arkansas,
		They chaw tobacco thin in Arkansas,
		They chaw tobacco thin,
		And it all runs down their chin,
		And they lick it all back again in Arkansas.
	Just couldn't resist adding another verse (with a lotta help
	from friends):
		Oh, they grow tobacco pale in Arkansas, ... (3x)
		And they put it up for sale,
		But they say not to inhale in Arkansas.
I'm sure you might find some more genteel songs about that state too.
Luck!  -- Lani
From: nelson@desktop.nsc.com (Taed Nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
Subject: Re: Christine Lavin Songbook
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:21:43 GMT
Organization: Applications Technology, National Semiconductor (Santa Clara CA USA)

I also ordered one for a friend, and recently got one for myself.  I don't
  even play guitar!  And I still liked it!  There's all sorts of fun
  scrapbook-type pages.  And another picture of Katy!  And a bad picture of
  Shawn Colvin!
From: kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover)
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
Subject: Re: Nightnoise - recommended!!
Date: 23 Jan 93 23:42:10 GMT
Organization: nope

In article <1jpduvINNcc8@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aj671@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (W. Gregory Downs) writes:
>
>  "Strayaway Child" is a wonderful album of hammered dulcimer and guitar
>music by Jerry Read Smith (hammered dulcimer) and Tom Fellenbaum (guitar).
>It is put out by their own label, "Song of the Woods Music" (I think, this
>is from memory).  As far as I know, the only thing the label has ever put
>out other than SC and one other by Smith and Fellenbaum is the first David
>Wilcox album "Nightshift Watchman".  The last I heard, SC was available
>only on LP and cassette.

"Heartdance", Smith, Fellenbaum, and Don Jackson.
Song of the Wood, (c) 1986 82886-CA

My copy lists their address as
203 West State Street
Black Mountain, NC 28711
704 669 7675

It's my impression that Song of the Wood *is* Smith and
Fellenbaum, who decided to eschew commercialism, and rely on word
of mouth for distribution.  I bought "Strayaway Child" and
"Heartdance" in a crafty tourist trap style store in Myrtle
Beach, SC, whose proprietor described Smith and Fellenbaum as a
couple of local boys.  I got the impression that this store got
someone who knew what a dulcimer is about once a year.

-- 
David Kassover             "Proper technique helps protect you against
uupsi!khazad!kassover	          sharp weapons and dull judges."
kassover@aule-tek.com                   F. Collins
kassover@ra.crd.ge.com
From: slrz8@cc.usu.edu (James Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
Subject: Dave Wilcox
Date: 22 Jan 93 12:25:32 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

I think I remember someone saying that Dave Wilcox would be coming out with a
new ablum in Jan. 1993.  Anyone know whether this is true or not?
Thanks,
-- 
***********************************************************************
James Hall
Utah State University            "Quote"
slrz8@cc.usu.edu
Writing Center
***********************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
From: jtblair@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (John Blair)
Subject: Re: Arkansas music
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 02:54:43 GMT

In article <1jnev3$p37@agate.berkeley.edu> sag@hera.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Goldfield) writes:
>I may have missed the beginning of this thread. Somebody
>must have already mentioned "Arkansas Traveler."
>
>In Jimmy Driftwood's "Tennessee Stud" the lead character
>passes through Arkansas; I think it was after he whipped
>"her paw." Vern Williams, who is from Arkansas, sings a
>song about and titled after a small town in Arkansas
>with the state's name in the title;
>I can't remember the name of the town at the moment, though I
>think it ends in "Knob."
>
>Steve Goldfield        :<{  {>:           sag@hera.berkeley.edu
>University of California at Berkeley     Richmond Field Station

probably "Bald Knob."
(I got to learn to block and delete on this editor.  [:^
                                                      \  john
From: ian@ossian.turing.ac.uk (Ian Watson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
Subject: Re: Capercaillie Update?
Date: 26 Jan 93 13:22:54 GMT
Organization: The Turing Institute, Glasgow, Scotland.

In article <9301231104.AA14875@prg.ox.ac.uk>, Geraint.Jones@prg.oxford.ac.uk (Geraint Jones) writes:
.
|> 
|> It was (Donovan aside -- he was excruciating) quite a respectable show 
|> (although watching the video at three o'clock in the morning when we got    /
|> back in was perhaps unwise).  They had Mary Black and (mercifully few)     /
|> sundry war pipers too.  And who was the piano player?                     / g
|> ___

Violet Tulloch was playing paino with Aly Bain.

Incidently, I heard that Donovan was in fact a stand-in for Van Morrison, that well known wit and racontour!

	Ian Watson                  
	The Turing Institute Ltd 	ian@turing.ac.uk         	
	36 North Hanover Street 	Tel +44 41 552 6400 	   
	Glasgow G1 2AD 			Fax +44 41 552 2985
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
From: jmf@endor.harvard.edu ( ghost )
Subject: Re: "Wildfire" by Michael Martin Murphy
Organization: DAS Purchasing, Harvard University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 22:25:16 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.172108.26215@microsoft.com> ellene@microsoft.com (Ellen Mitsue Eades) writes:
>In article <1jkkgsINNjfn@hp-col.col.hp.com> judym@col.hp.com (Judy Miller) writes:
>>I didn't see the list, but I hope "Honey" and "Feelings" and the 
>>"Theme from Love Story" are on that list.
>
>Ooog.  Thank you *very* much (NOT) for reminding me of "Honey."
>I'd like to return the favor by drawing your attention to just
>about anything by David Gates & Bread.

Well, Honey *was* on the list,
along with an all-star cast of true musical turkeys

but so was Wimowa (the lion sleeps tonight)
as well as Patches...

now, I can see those uncouth masses who aren't familiar with the general
course of events applying to young lovers in a folk ballad, which I
claim Patches is, applying the Barry-test screws to the song
(which I love & always will)
but
why are they picking on Wimowa?
don't they know great music when they hear it?
(rhetorical comment)

Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
From: cimo@cs.montana.edu (Bob Cimikowski)
Subject: goodf music shop in Austin
Organization: CS
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:39:21 GMT


Can anyone recommend a good music/book store in Austin, Texas, in the vicinity
of the Univ. Texas campus?  I'll be there for a few days and would like
to browse through some folk CDs as well as some guitar music books.

Thanks,
Bob
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
From: clarkec@fraser.sfu.ca (David Gordon Clarke)
Subject: Other Loreena McKennitt Items
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:41:15 GMT

In addition to the CD's, if you order direct from Quinlan Road you
can get posters (1 for each of the 4 releases), cassettes, the
special box set of "The Visit", and some postcards with original 
art...


                       David Clarke (clarkec@sfu.ca) 
                  ....the well is deep...wish me well...


Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
From: jsarna@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: Black '47 in Boston
Organization: Clark University
Date: 22 JAN 93 00:09:06 GMT

For any and all interested people...
Black '47 will be making a journey from NYC to Boston this
coming Sunday (1/24).  They'll be playing at a pub called
The Kells at 161 Brighton Ave in Alston (close enough to
Boston, I suppose).  For info, call (617) 782-9082.

                -jeremy
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
From: mbk@world.std.com (Michael B Klein)
Subject: Re: Four Bitchin' Babes II
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 08:43:26 GMT

nelson@desktop.nsc.com (Taed Nelson) writes:

> [stuff deleted]

>The only song I don't like is:
>	* Oh Great Spirit by McDonough

Have you ever seen her perform this song live?  It's absolutely
amazing.  She has the audience perform on percussion (by shaking their
car keys).  Her voice fills the room like nothing I've ever heard.
I've seen her twice now (once as a Bitchin' Babe, once subbing for a
flu-ridden Christine Lavin on an On a Winter's Night tour), and she's
sung that one both times.  I've been dying for a live recording of
it, though I can't see how it would be as effective in the studio.

Michael


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Michael B. Klein      | "There's nothing intellectual about wandering      |
| mbk@world.std.com     |  around Italy in a big shirt trying to get laid."  |
| 48klein@cuavax.bitnet |                       -- Edmund Blackadder II      |
From: nelson@desktop.nsc.com (Taed Nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
Subject: Four Bitchin' Babes II
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:39:53 GMT
Organization: Applications Technology, National Semiconductor (Santa Clara CA USA)

I haven't seen any mention of it, but there is a second Four Bitchin' Babes
  album:
	Christine Lavin, Sally Fingerett, Julie Gold, Megon McDonough
	Buy Me, Bring Me, Take Me, Don't Mess My Hair
	Life according to four bitchin' babes
	Volume Two
  Which is an even bigger title than the first...

In summary, I like this album much better than the first.

This one is done in a studio rather than live, and it has none of those
  annoying (but nice the first few times) discussions, jokes, and games.  It's
  entirely music.

The production is nice, although I wish that the three non-leads would be used
  as more than just backup.

Highlights include:
	* A new Lavin song -- Bald Headed Men
	* A new Lavin cover -- Sealed with a kiss
	* McDonough's Butter
	* Fingerett's Graceful Man, although I like the _Unravelled_ version
		better
	* PLUS, The true words to the Jeopardy! theme song that time has
		forgotten (only recently rediscovered by Christine when she
		was rummaging through Merv's garbage cans).

			Back in High School, you were square
			Carried books and slide rules everywhere
			You scored straight A's year after year
			They called you "geek", they called you "queer"

			For everyone that laughed in your face
			Now's your chance to put them in their place
			Because you're on a TV show
			Where your big brain wins big dough

The only song I don't like is:
	* Oh Great Spirit by McDonough

And I was disappointed not to get a version of Gold's "Temporary Worker".

I think if you like any of the four people, that this would be a good buy.
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk