HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lichtenw@guug.de (Klaus Lichtenwalder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: HITLER is back?
Date: 15 Sep 92 12:49:38 GMT
Organization: Technical University of Munich, Germany

<C44590@TRMETU.BITNET> writes:

>...
>about exceeding-right movements that have been recently occuring in Germany.
>what matters in such anti-foreginer enterperises is that such so-called
>neo Nazigroups seem to being backed by the populace already present in the
>place (things like applauding the invaders or a kind of co-operationwith
>the racist slogans etc.).

Oh yes, the applauders are embarrasing. But things are changing. People
recognized (in Rostock) what they were doing, after heavy protests of other
people and press (God bless a free press, something, that wasn't there
50 years ago). Anti racist demos are starting and (open?) support for
the extremist people will cease (I didn't say stop).

>i wonder,specially in Germany what the young think about these actions?do they
>agree to that or not and why?who the young think may be organisingthese assaul
>ts?
>i'll be so glad if i can receive any answer,either by e-mail to me or on the
>net.

My personal oppinion is that many (most?) of the skinheads aren't themselves
motivated by racism, they simply want to offend. And if there is support
from bystanders (that was really bad!) they know they are right.
Many of them don't really know what happend in the Third Reich (and before),
a problem also caused by teachers, who do have problems to simply teach what
happened then. Many of the young people do have problems if directly
accused because of Nazi barbarism. They don't know to say: Yes, these
were (not only, but that's not a point for discussion for me) Germans, I know,
but i didn't take part because i am too young, my work is to help to
avoid anything like this happen again.'

But, and this may be a huge problem, it looks like these people are
organized by somebody (not necessarily one), people or organizations,
that do have fixed extreme political oppinions: (Neo)Nazi parties,
Organizations like the Thule group and (since recently ?) the Ku Klux Klan
(yes they are in Germany, too), and many more others.

This is only a very short discussion of these terms, but i think there
should be more oppinions than only mine.

(FYI: I am German, age 29, Computer Scientist).


So much for now,
Klaus

--
_______________________________________________________________________________
Klaus Lichtenwalder, Dipl. Inf.                 Tel: +49-89-986929
Datapat GmbH                                    FAX: +49-89-988014
Mauerkircherstr. 31                             email: lichtenw@guug.de
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.australian
From: peta@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (Peter Whaite)
Subject: Re: German-Australian Dual Citizenship
Organization: McGill Research Centre for Intelligent Machines
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 14:57:16 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.020912.6813@mailhost.ocs.mq.edu.au> s8923098@macnab.mqcs.mq.oz.au (Josef WIDJAJA) writes:
>In article <1992Sep8.024021.1913@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> peta@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (Peter Whaite) writes:
>|In article <1992Sep7.235338.689@mailhost.ocs.mq.edu.au> s8923098@macnab.mqcs.mq.oz.au (Josef WIDJAJA) writes:
>
>...
>|Yeah but if I want to take up Canadian citizenship I have to hand in my
>|Australian passport.  Whats the rationale behind this double standard. 
>|
>
>I am not sure if Canada allows dual citizenship, but if that is the
>case, you can still keep your Australian Citizenship and get back
>(reapply?) your passport. Taking away your passport does not mean
>that you lose your citizenship, it is just an official procedure 
>initiated by, in this case, Canada to inform the Australian embassy 
>Canada that one more Australian has been 'converted'. 

It does, and I was under the impression that I would actually lose my
Australian citizenship but I must admit I dont know for sure. Actually I dont
even think Canada requires you to hand in your passport.  I must check up
on these points.

>Why would you want to take up Canadian Citizenship? ;-)

Why wouldn't I?   But really this does deserve a serious answer -- I like
the beer.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: wunner@nova.tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de (Guenter Wunner)
Subject: Re: Oktoberfest information r
Organization: TAT (Theoretical Astrophysics Tuebingen), U. of Tuebingen, FRG
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:11:09 GMT

carl.camurca%travel@wugate.wustl.edu (Carl Camurca)  writes:


> * OLX 2.1 TD * Fer sell cheep:  IBM spel chekker.  Wurks grate.
>                                                              
Hahahahahahahahaha! Der Spruch ist echt klasse. Ich bin grad vor
Lachen vom Stuhl gefallen!
Tschuess,
Lukas.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.german:6498 soc.culture.polish:2550 soc.history:8196
From: fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.polish,soc.history
Subject: Re: common Polish-German action (was: Nazi Cam
Date: 10 Sep 92 20:42:07 GMT
Organization: CompuData Inc.

roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:


>Well, if you count Silesia as Polish, then the Prussian occupation
>began as early as 1742, i.e., before your first date.

Why stop there? Go back to Henry the Lion, who, as vassal to Frederick
Barbarossa, fell out with him when he refused to support the crudades to the
Holy Land. Henry saw his primary mission in Christianizing the eastern hordes
first. The Cistercian monks provided exemplary models of expansionist
economic, cultural (religious) and agricultural organization. Poland kept
inviting them in and gave the missionary task to Bishop Otto of Bamberg under
King Boleslav III. The native nobility of both Pommerania and Silesia of the
time called in the Germans to colonize the areas. They established towns and
farming villages all over the place with the blessing of the nobles because
now trade was also being introduced. The general policy was neither one of
exterminating the local population nor of replacing it with German colonists.
On the whole Whendish and Sorbic populations integrated over time and assumed
a German character.

It should also not be forgotten that during these early start-up years and
over many centuries later, peoples from most other nations of Europe also
settled in Silesia and Pommerania. The colonists who from the day they arrived
had the superior military and economic organization, naturally assumed
political leadership over time. Then as now, money meant power.

I'm not sure exactly when or how Silesia became to be the richest and most
powerful province of the Habsburg Empire but Prussia came into the picture
rather late after the Germanization of the area. I believe that is the time
period Roger has taken us to.

fred

-- 
W. Fred Rump 	office:	   fred@COMPU.COM     'mans feet have grown/so big 
26 Warren St.   home: fred@icdi10.compu.com  that he/forgets his littleness'
Beverly, NJ. 08010                          		Don Marquis 
609-386-6846    bang:uunet!cdin-1!icdi10!fr
From: Craig_Everhart@transarc.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: End of summer time?
Date: 8 Sep 92 09:04:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: transarc.sefBoFD0BwwtF1mUoa
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

When does the local time change from summer time to standard time in Germany?

		Thanks,
		Craig
From: mrbulli@btoy1.UUCP (Thomas Bullinger)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Der Herr der Ringe...
Date: 10 Sep 92 02:22:58 GMT
Organization: Private UNIX system
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

[ Article crossposted from soc.culture.german ]
[ Author was Markus Eggers ]
[ Posted on 8 Sep 92 16:30:05 GMT ]

In article <2374.178.uupcb@wugate.wustl.edu>, Carl Camurca writes:

> An die Anderen: Schon 'mal aufgefallen, dass die Boesen bei Tolkien in
> der Regel dunkel sind, im Osten und Sueden wohnen, dass "das edle Blut
> der Koenige von Arathorn durch fremde Einheiraten geschwaecht wurde",
> ganz zu schweigen von dem urgermanischen Reitervolk der Eowin (oder so
> aehnlich)?

   DAS  bestreitet  Tolkien  ja!   Diese  Aussage  wird  ihm nur IMMER
vorgehalten,  wenn  es  um  den  "Herr  der Ringe" im Zusammenhang mit
Faschismus geht.

   Aber  es passt halt immer so schoen in's Konzept:  Die boesen leben
im Osten (Aha!) und im Sueden (Aha!).  Die guten sind Blond (Aha!) und
die Boesen dunkel (Aha!) usw.  usf.  DAS nervt!

   Schoen  einmal  ueberlegt,  dass die Frage der Hautfarbe vielleicht
UNSERER  Welt angelehnt ist.  Im Sueden sind die Menschen ueberwiegend
dunkelhaeutig und haben nicht gerade oft helle Haare.

   Und  noch  eine Frage an euch.  Das Gute kaempft gegen das Boese um
das  Ueberleben.  Wuerde der Ring nicht zerstoert, so wuerde das Boese
die  Macht  ergreifen.   Wuerden  die  Guten nicht gegen die Boesen in
Helms  Klam  (ich  kenne  leider  nur  die  deutsche Uebersetzung), so
wuerden  sie  umgebracht.   Was  ist  daran faschistoid?  (Bitte nicht
wieder  das  Argument  mit  den  hell  und dunkelhaeutigen Wesen!) Sie
kaempfen  doch  nicht  darum,  dass  eine  andere "Rasse" (Orks o.ae.)
ausgerottet wird, sondern kaempfen um ihr UEBERLEBEN...


   Naja.  Ihr werdet schon wissen, was Tolkien mit dem Herrn der Ringe
ausdruecken bzw.  bezwecken wollte... :-)


gez. Markus

P.S.: Ich  will  auch die Zitate von Tolkien MIT Quellenhinweis sehen,
      die  seine  faschistoiden  Absichten  mit  dem  "Herr der Ringe"
      beweisen.   Bitte  keine  Zitate, in den von irgend jemand etwas
      hineininterpretiert wird bzw.  wurde!!!

--
\\   Markus Eggers, Max-Slevogt-Str. 1, D-5000 Koeln 91, FRG   //
 \X/            e-mail: meggers@SEMyAm.DinoCo.DE             \X/
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: alb@ais.org (Alan Brushaber)
Subject: Need help with an address
Organization: UMCC
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 18:16:20 GMT


Greetings,

  I was given the address below:

John Doe
  Lawenderger Str.
  3207 80NNERSUM <- Did they mean BONNERSUM? GONNERSUM? Etc?
  West Germany


For starters, I'm told the street looks flakey, but I'd be happy at
this point just to learn what the city should be. Can anyone tell
what it should be based on the postal code? I was offered the suggestion
to address this as W-3207 and just 'Germany' as well (the form this
was found in is probably just a bit outdated:)

Thanks for any tips.

Al - alb@ais.org
From: astbc@acad2.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Automobile
Date: 13 Sep 92 07:09:54 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska

Hi everybody,

I would like to know about the german Automobile Industry something.
Which are the company that are controled by the goverment ?
(Completely, or partialy)

Thanks a lot.
Monsieur le K.
astbc@acad2.alaska.edu

PS: If you could send me the answers with a reply.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: weberwu@inf.fu-berlin.de (Debora Weber-Wulff)
Subject: Violence update 11.09.92
Reply-To: dww@inf.fu-berlin.de
Organization: Free University of Berlin
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 09:03:01 GMT

Quedlinburg was the scene of more violence last night. Youths
threw the usual rocks/bottles/firebombs as now 400 looked on.
But about 250 persons stood between the mob and the refugee home
last night. Despite the provocation they remained non-violent
and kept the youths from burning down the house.

6 youths were sentenced in Rostock yesterday for the riots
two weeks ago, an extremely short time-span for the German
justice system. One youth was sentenced to 9 months in jail, 1
was sentenced to a year on probation, and four were sentenced to
detention equal to the days they have already spent in prison (so
about 14 days).

There was rock/bottle/firebomb throwing by 10 youths in
Guestrow and by 5 in Greifswald (both M-V, I believe), no damages
reported. In Reinbeck (S-H) an auto dealership next to a refugee
home was torched.

It goes on and on and on and is becoming quite "alltaeglich", just
a normal part of life, it seems.
-- 
Debora Weber-Wulff                       dww@inf.fu-berlin.de
Institut fuer Informatik                 +49 30 89691 124
Nestorstr. 8-9                           (INCLUDE "standard.disclaimer")
D-W-1000 Berlin 31                       (PRINTN (WITTY-MESSAGE TODAY))
From: carl.camurca%travel@wugate.wustl.edu (Carl Camurca) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: re:Annexation
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:46:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Travel Online, St. Louis, MO
Reply-To: carl.camurca%travel@wugate.wustl.edu (Carl Camurca) 

FR>>First, West Germany's annexation of the German Democratic
FR>>Republic in 1990 ......

FR>  This is not true. There was no annexation at all.

Could you tell me then, what is left from the achievements (yes, there
where some) of the GDR society?
I don't mean the "Green Arrow".

FR>--
FR>       Friedrich Roesch

CU, Carl.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * .......... <-- Scratch here to reveal prize...
                                                                                                                         
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: stoer@hal.nta.no (Stoer Mechthild FNT)
Subject: Re: Germany's Power Play in Europe
Organization: Norwegian Telecom Research
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 17:11:12 GMT

-----------------------------------------------------------------
GERMANOPHOBIA'S ROLE IN THE BALKANIZATION OF EASTERN EUROPE

By MECHTHILD STOER
Tuesday, September 8, 1992


Andy Lang or Christic Institute wrote a long article <1473000039@igc.apc.org>
about how the Germany's and Austria's historic alliance with 
(or influence over) certain small countries on the Balkan and the Baltic
(Slovenia, Croatia etc.)
now moves German diplomacy to support their independence,
so as to supposedly regain influence over these small countries
and therewith over Europe,
according to the proverb: Divide and conquer.

If that is true, that the old alliances have their influence on the new ones.
then you should also take a look at the non-German side.
Namely, while Slovenia and Croatia belonged 
to the German or Austrian influence sphere,
so did Serbia belong to the English influence sphere.

So, if you ask
>Is there any question that the
>Slovenian and Croatian governments would have compromised with
>the Serbs if Germany had pressured them to adopt a more moderate
>policy?

you should also ask:
Is there any question that the Serbian government 
would have compromised with the Slovenian and Croatian governments,
if England (or the non-German European countries)
had pressured them to adopt a more moderate policy?

But as already your question suggest,
you have no interest in the independence of the Yugoslavian countries.
Quite the opposite, you would rather see them enslaved again,
only to have Germany's (supposed) influence counteracted.
Or what do you want to say with the following:

>All of these nations will eventually qualify for membership in
>the European Community. Why is this important from the German
>standpoint? Germany's economic power in the EC has not been
>matched by political influence. England and France continue to
>resist German preeminence in the new federal structures that are
>taking shape in Europe. Germany therefore needs allies, and as a
>result of the Balkanization of Europe, Germany now can count on
>the support of at least 14 Northern and Eastern European states
>that are historically ``pro-German''--some of which owe their
>independence in part to German influence.
>
>My friend predicts that Germany will preach the equality of
>nations in federal Europe. The German government will argue that
>every state should have an equal number of votes in European
>bodies--like the system adopted by the United States for its
>Senate. The support of 14 small nations would then be decisive.

Should I conclude from these arguments 
that you want to revive the old Balkan politics
of nicely balanced influence spheres,
and THEREBY enslave these newly formed countries again?

This is truely
GERMANOPHOBIA'S ROLE IN THE BALKANIZATION OF EASTERN EUROPE

Mechthild Stoer
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb)
Subject: aussenpolitik
Organization: Department of Political Science, University of Minnesota
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 22:48:34 GMT

Ich schreibe meine Dissertation ueber die Medien und politischen Parteien 
waehrend des Golfkrieges und der Krise in Kroatien bis 15.1.92.  (Fach: 
Politikwissenschaft)  Ich bin letztes Jahr in Deutschland gewesen, um die 
Forschung zu machen, und jetzt wuerde ich gern Kontakt mit Deutschen haben, 
die aehnliche Forschungsthemen und Interessen haben.  Die Arbeit ist nicht 
nur eine Beschreibung des deutschen Diskurses waehrend dieser Zeit, sondern 
auch ist sie ein Versuch, eine neue theoretische Perspective ueber 
internationale Politik zu verbreiten.  Anstatt von Annahmen ueber die Welt 
und den Menschen anzufangen (wie menschliche Natur oder Interessen), 
betrachte ich die Welt als eine soziale Konstruktion, die durch die Glauben 
und Werte der Gesellschaft konstruiert wird.  Wenn dem so ist, kann man denn 
aufhoeren, Kriege und Konflikte als natuerlich zu betrachten, und eine 
praktische pazifistische Alternative anbieten.  Das ist ja alles zu 
kompliziert, eine ausfuerliche Beschreibung hier zu geben.  Aber wenn jemand 
fuer ein solches Thema sich interessiert, bitte lass mich wissen.  Meine e-
mail Adresse: serb@polisci.umn.edu.  Uebrigens, 'serb' hat nichts mit 
Serbien zu tun!  Ich heisse Scott Erb und man hat mir diesen 'user name' 
gegeben, ohne mich im voraus zu fragen (serb= s. Erb)!  Ciao.
From: markk@pongo.West.Sun.COM (Mark Allen Kampe)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Nickname question.
Date: 10 Sep 1992 16:11:08 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: markk@pongo.West.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: pongo.west.sun.com

I once knew a fencer with the nickname "Mutzi" but this came from his Family name
"Mutschenbacher".
From: mrbulli@btoy1.UUCP (Thomas Bullinger)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Auslander
Date: 10 Sep 92 02:23:29 GMT
Organization: Private UNIX system
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

[ Article crossposted from soc.culture.german ]
[ Author was Carl Camurca ]
[ Posted on 9 Sep 92 10:05:00 GMT ]

[stuff deleted]

FG>discussion into a debate about asylum politics. As posted in this
FG>newsgroup before, about 12% of the germans would vote right wing parties in
FG>next elections. This is a supprisingly high number and it calls for politica
FG>action of everybody in this country. But even if you'd assume that all of
FG>those people would agree completely whith fascistic ideology you shouldn't
FG>forget the more than 80% of the people who would vote different.

Yeah, and I do not forget the 12% (or even less), that beat me up at
night in the streets.

FG>Greetings,
FG>                Frank.

CU, Carl.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * 3 kinds of people: Those who can count; those who can't.
                                                                                  
Xref: sparky soc.culture.german:6592 soc.culture.europe:8400
From: luciano@athos.Berkeley.EDU (Luciano Lavagno)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: HITLER is back?
Date: 15 Sep 92 18:38:20 GMT
Reply-To: luciano@athos.Berkeley.EDU (Luciano Lavagno)
Organization: UC Berkeley IC CAD Group

In article <lichtenw.716561378@guug.de>, lichtenw@guug.de (Klaus Lichtenwalder)
writes:
[... discussion of nazi-skin motivations omitted for brevity ...]
>But, and this may be a huge problem, it looks like these people are
>organized by somebody (not necessarily one), people or organizations,
>that do have fixed extreme political oppinions: (Neo)Nazi parties,
>Organizations like the Thule group and (since recently ?) the Ku Klux Klan
>(yes they are in Germany, too), and many more others.

Two questions:
1) openly claiming to be neo-fascist is a crime in Italy. I know that the
"Movimento Sociale Italiano" actually IS neo-fascist, and proud of it,
nevertheless they shouldn't be allowed (according to the current law, at least)
to claim such heritage.
Aren't similar laws in effect in Germany as well ? I thought they were part of
the peace agreements at the end of WWII.
2) can you elaborate more on the KK presence in Germany ? I know that they have
close ties with neo-nazi and other (aryan) white supremacist groups here in the
US, but exporting racism to other countries seems a new phenomenon to me (maybe
I am just ignorant). 
Well, of course some can always claim that the US exported fascism to Chile and
other Central and South American countries, but that's a different matter (they
just needed a government supportive of big corporate interests, and did not
care much about racial hatred per se).
Thanks ! Ciao !
Luciano
P.s. did anybody else consider, without going too far on conspiracy theories,
that there may be a connection between the timing of this excalation in racial
intolerance in Germany (where it causes an immediate stronger reaction than
anywhere else in the world), and the vote on the Maaastricht treaty in France
?
I mean, could it be that ultra-nationalistic groups are trying to "kill" the
treaty ? (by the way, this does not amount to say that everyone who opposes it
is a neo-nazi...).
-- 
Luciano Lavagno            luciano@ic.Berkeley.EDU            +1-510-642-5012
Dept. of EECS, 207-69 Cory Hall, Univ. of California, Berkeley, CA 94720, USA
From: jamshid@socrates.ucsf.edu (J. Naghizadeh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Violence update 10.09.92
Date: 11 Sep 92 18:27:24 GMT
Organization: UCSF Computer Graphics Lab

weberwu@inf.fu-berlin.de (Debora Weber-Wulff) writes:

>stoer@hal.nta.no (Stoer Mechthild FNT) writes:

>>Anybody becoming indignant about the 5-person family
>>evicted from a cheap 7-room house,
>>should also ask himself,
>>whether his 5-person family is willing to share one room
>>of his expensive 4-room apartment with some asylants?

>>Mechthild Stoer

>I'm not sure what you mean exactly. The apartment in the homeless
>shelter is not *theirs*, it belongs to the state and the state
>can put whom they please in the rooms.

>Debora Weber-Wulff                       dww@inf.fu-berlin.de

A while ago someone in this newsgroup suggested that the German
Government may seek the services of "SED General Sekeretar, A.D."
now residing in Moabit to solve some of the problems.

He is an expert in "Grenzsicherung". In fact it has been suggested that the
Governments insistence on returning him to Germany may have to do with
the "Asylanten" problem. Just kidding.

--J.N.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.australian
From: miw@cc.uq.oz.au (Mark I. Williams)
Subject: Re: German-Australian Dual Citizenship
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 02:06:37 GMT

dmiller@alsvid.une.edu.au (David Miller) writes:
>A good friend of mine, a German national, wants to know if Dual
>Citizenship is now possible with Australia.  He has heard rumours
>of policies being relaxed given the EC trend.  Does anyone know
>if it is possible?  (Antwort im Deutsche Sprache ist okay.)

Australian immigration, while deprecating dual citizenship, does not
require you to renounce your foreign citizenships. It does, however, (at
least in my uncle's case) take your (foreign) passport and send it to the
authorities of that country. You then have to apply for another one. 

In other words, it is up to the German authorities whether he can keep
German citizenship. 

cheers,

--
Mark Williams         The University of Queensland       miw@cc.uq.edu.au
+61 7 36 54012   (w)  Prentice Centre
+61 7 36 54477  (fax) Qld 4072  Australia
Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit.  -- Seneca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.australian