HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Primitive FireArms
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1993 02:12:26

 DS>  Since firearms are period, but decidedly unsafe compared to
 DS> those of modern manufacture, the question to me is in three parts.
 DS> 1) Do firearms have a place in the Society?
       I think they do.  They are, after all, within our time period.
...
 DS> 2) If they do, will we allow their firing as a contest?
   I can't really see anything else to *do* with them.  Handicapping 
 and groupings would be an interesting subject to deal with, but I'm 
 not familiar enough with the various advantages/disadvantages to 
 speak knowledgably....
...
 DS> 3) If we do fire them, what balance between safety and authenticity?
  Well, as you mentioned in the rest of your missive, the firing line 
 has to be a good long way from any potentially innocent bystanders. 
 Given that the guns themselves do not have a good rep for safety, I'd 
 probably only allow one person on the firing line at a time.  I'd also 
 require safety goggles and hearing protectors.  I would not alter the 
 guns' authenticity at all.  The faint of heart need not play..... As 
 for the powder, again, I'm not that knowledgable.  I've heard that the 
 old blackpowder is a safety problem all on its' own, and I recently 
 read here that the more modern powders cause problems with the guns. 
 I don't know whether that person was referring to the modern substitute 
 powder that the blackpowder people use, or the gunpowder that modern guns use.
       Gwenllian Cwmystwyth ferch Morfudd
           Steppes, Ansteorra

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Schroeder)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Longer/Shorter Reigns
Date: 3 Jan 93 05:20:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.sfFkF=e00WB341hZtg
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Greetings good gentles,

William de Corbie has recently advocated _longer_ reigns for
crowned heads, up to as long as three years.

One interesting way to try something in that direction would
be to retain two reigns per year but increase the asymmetry
of the lengths of the reigns.  Here in AEthelmearc, for 
example, the War Prince has a shorter time on the throne
than the Winter Prince.  It would be interesting to see
if having a _very short_ reign for "fighting season" plus a 
much longer one for "court season" might be feasible.

Take care, good gentles -- Bertram

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Bertram of Bearington                                      Dave Schroeder
Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East               Carnegie Mellon University
INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu                         412/731-3230 (Home)
+------------------------ PREME * Press On * PREME ---------------------+
      "He indulged in every excess, yes in each licentious whim..." 
From: Dave.Aronson@p11.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Period Calendar Wanted
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 18:05:34 -0500

jww@evolving.com (John W. Woolley) writeth:

 JWW> Remember that, no matter the time of year, there are twelve equal hours
 JWW> of day and twelve of night; so that in winter day hours are much shorter
 JWW> than night hours.

Three questions.

1. Are you pulling our legs?  If no, proceed to 2....

2. This implies that sunrise and sunset are at x:00 AM and x:00 PM respectively.
 What is x?  I would guess 6 since it's halfway.  Yes?

3. Does anyone out there know of any self-adjusting timepieces that would take
this stretching and shrinking of hours into account?


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Fighting for Crown....A Question.
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 22:38:47 GMT

Padraigin nic'Aodha
  If one is physically unable to fight, does that mean
  that the gentle could never become royalty?

No, one must find someone to fight for them.

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: comptec92024@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: On the nature of light blows and too light blows
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 03:44:22 GMT

In article <Bzyvpr.2L9@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes) writes:
> In article <921226041151_71431.167_EHJ44-1@CompuServe.COM> 71431.167@compuserve.COM (REED E HARRIG) writes:
>>I do not object to that kind of research.  In fact, I believe that some
>>research was done on this subject several years back.  It used a suit
>>of riveted mail (the society standard) draped over a pig (deceased).  
>>The results were, if my handed down information is correct, that the
>>force required to pierce that mail was less than what was the
>>standard some 11 - 15 years ago.  
> 
> Your Grace,
> 
> I believe that the tests were held many years ago by Duke Andrew of
> Seldom Rest. The results got printed up in the Hammer. The article is
> printed in one of the volumes (I forget which) of The Best of the
> Hammer, which is published by Raymond's Quiet Press.
> 
> 	These are the results as I remember them from the article. 
> 
> A pig carcass was draped with a piece of padding, then a layer of thick
> leather, then a layer of riveted mail. The whole mess was then attached
> to a tree, so it couldn't get loose. A "standard" swing of a broadsword
> didn't damage the armor much, but did break ribs underneath the armor. 
> A thin bladed spear went between the links of the mail, through the
> leather, padding AND the pig and stuck in the tree behind. OUCH.
> 
> 	The consensus of the observers (Duke Andrew and Sir Polidor
> Haraldsson, the editor of The Hammer are the only ones I can remember)
> was that SCA blow calibration (ca. A.S. X or so) was sufficiently
> powerful to breach period armor. 
> 
> 	If people are sufficiently interested, I can scrounge up the
> article and give a more accurate synopsis.
> 
> Lothar \|/
>         0


Yes, please Can I have some More!
Facts what a wonderfull Idea! 
Please, Please, Please!

                      Mackenzie
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: U254@sysm.acs.virginia.EDU
Subject: Heraldic questions...
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:55:00 GMT


Unto the good folk of the Rialto from Landi Haraldsson, greetings!

Tadhg comments:

TI>> Inapposite analogy. The SCA is, in effect, one "locality", due to
  >> the modern propensity to (a) communicate at long distance, (b)
  >> travel long distances, and (c) move around during life. Most SCA
  >> people travel more in a year than even great nobles on crusade

and Ulfie responds:

>Tadgh, most of us travel only in our area or kingdom, much like
>those nobles. Only a small percentage travel outside their kingdom, with
>the sole exception of the Big Annual Wars. And even then you're talking
>of a fraction of the group. Kingdom size is about right. The SCA as a
>whole is _not_ one locality. We're about a dozen or so...

   I'm going to have to agree with Tadhg on this one.  (Sorry, Tadhg.
I'll try not to do it too often. :-)  Too many of my friends have
moved (from Atlantia) to places like Caid, Midrealm or Outlands.
The seneschal of my shire, and the seneschal of the soon-to-be
incipient canton nearby, are both from Outlands.  From where I sit,
the SCA qualifies as one big locality.  Besides, I'd really like to
make it to Pennsic again, or one of the other big gatherings (is
there going to be a Thirty Year Celebration?) and I'd like to be
able to tell my friends to look for my banner without worrying
about the possible dozen or so other banners with the same device...

Yours in service --

   Landi Haraldsson of Wulfkeep       Landon Falls
   Isenfir, Atlantia                  Charlottesville, Virginia, USA

Organization: Information Networking Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
From: jww@evolving.com (John W. Woolley)
Subject: Re: Period Calendar Wanted
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:10:37 GMT
Organization: Evolving Systems, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

snolan@postmaster@hq.af.mil (Duncan Tiercel MacLeod) writes:
: What are the monastic times of the day, and what do they equate to,
: and why?

There are eight monastic offices.  The time of day is often referred to
the office said then.  They are:

Matins    "Morning", but usually said *early* in the morning, like one
          or two a.m.  Some orders do Matins around four, and it can be
          sometimes "anticipated", i.e. said the previous evening.
Lauds     "Praises".  Said around dawn.  Mass usually follows.
Prime     "First".  From about seven a.m. till nine or so.  (The office
          only takes maybe fifteen minutes, but when the name of the
          office is used as a time of day, it covers the time till the
          start of the next office.)
Terce     "Third".  The forenoon, after breakfast and before midday.
Sext      "Sixth".  Noon till three.
None      "Ninth".  Said around three p.m.; late afternoon.
Vespers   "Evening".  Usually said about five p.m.
Compline  Said at bedtime, maybe nine p.m. or so.

Remember that, no matter the time of year, there are twelve equal hours
of day and twelve of night; so that in winter day hours are much shorter
than night hours.
-- 
Fr. John Woolley (jww@evolving.com); vastly enthusiastic about Augustine,
Austen, babies, Bach, backgammon, baseball, beer, the Bible, Botticelli, Burke,
Chesterton, Dante, Dixieland, hardboiled, Hitchcock, Dr Johnson, Latin, Mozart,
Shakespeare/de Vere, St Teresa, Tolkien, Trollope, Fats Waller, and Washington
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Annual Xmas Depression; moan, weep, gnash
Date: 28 Dec 1992 23:27:06 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Unto all, especially Master William de Corbe, seasons greetings!

William bemoans the inauthentic nature of the structure of the SCA and
wonders how to begin to change it.  If you'll permit, a few small
suggestions.  Since Drachenwald will be a new kingdom, building on old
traditions (and wanting new ones), Europe is a fine place to start the
change.  Imagine the unbridled joy at being able to say to ones North
America fellows at Pennsic, "What, you mean you still do X over here?
We did away with that hideous anachronism YEARS ago!"

The suggestions:

1)  Don't succumb to the "Award/Grant/Patent" of arms nonsense for
kingdom honors.  Give a Award of Arms whose text reads "We Award X a
Grant of Arms by Letters Patent" right out of the block.  Precedence for
Kingdom honors is what you decide it is, not the "level" of armigerous
status tagged to it.  Treat the above as an "naked" AoA, to make the
Corpora lawyers happy.

2)  Don't hold elimination Crown Tourneys.  Have a challenge tourney,
or a round robin format, or a series of "days" a la Bjornsborgs's
Tournement of Lions.

3)  Replace the inauthentic fealty and homage oaths us Americans foisted
on you with versions of authentic medieval oaths.  (Unfortunately, you
will have to remove the religious references, but swearing on relics can
be replaced with swearing on the sword of state or the crowns or some
such.)

These are just a few to start with.  Start small, adding a few changes
as you can convince the "Powers that be".  The Board isn't unreasonable;
also, Corpora does give the Kingdoms a lot of room for their own
traditions.  Push the envelope to the limit - you just might make it
bigger for the rest of us.

Mikjal Annarbjorn
-- 
Michael A. Chance          St. Louis, Missouri, USA    "At play in the fields
Work: mc3078@sw1sta.sbc.com                             of St. Vidicon"
Play: bq434@cleveland.freenet.edu
      mchance@nyx.cs.du.edu
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: SCA
From: bakerjd@hirama.hiram.edu
Date: 3 Jan 93 15:24:27 -0500
Organization: Hiram College
Nntp-Posting-User: bakerjd

	I hate to sound really ignorant of everything, :-) But I
would love to get a list of where different groups of the SCA are
(considering I would love to feel this "welcome to beginners" that
everyone talks about....:-) could someone e-mail me a list or tell
me where to get it? Thanks!!!!
From: tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: administrivia
Date: 23 Dec 92 17:17:08 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona UNIX Users Group

In article <724922691.AA00000@blkcat.UUCP> Henry.Best@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Henry Best) writes:

An excellent post, My Lord, but I have one minor quible.  You say -

>    DANGER: DON'T TAKE THEIR MONEY! Universities will sometimes give 
>monetary allowances to student groups. You have the ability to decline 
>this money. The money comes with strings. Generally, you must account 
>for it and spend it according to their guidelines.

Take the money, and use it for advertising your events in the School Newspaper,
photocopying, and other such things.  The strings are minimal in such cases.
Just don't buy durable goods with it.
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:52:59

    Landi Haraldsson wrote:

 U>    I'm going to have to agree with Tadhg on this one.  (Sorry, Tadhg.
 U> I'll try not to do it too often. :-)  Too many of my friends have
 U> moved (from Atlantia) to places like Caid, Midrealm or Outlands.

 [This goes into your dossier, you know...]

 I myself spent six years in the East, five years in the Middle, and now
 approaching seven in Ansteorra. That doesn't even count my first exposure
 to the SCA, in what is now Atlantia (with numerous visits back on behalf
 of Uncle Sugar to do reserve training). Granted that we Irish monks tend
 to travel a lot, I still stick with my original premise; Ansteorra will be
 losing three good heralds to An Tir in the next six months alone.

    Tadhg, Obelisk

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: 00mjstum@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Matthew J. Stum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Fighting for Crown..Another question.
Date: 31 Dec 92 14:34:31 GMT
Organization: Widget Enterprises


Okay, here's another oddball question just out of idle curiosity...

Have _both_ members of a prospective Royal couple ever entered a Crown list?
Or is this explicitly ruled out?

-- 
Matt Stum                    Gwydion ap Myrddin       Ball State University
00mjstum@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu   Shire of Afonlyn, MK     Muncie, IN  USA
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: 4 On Fealty
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 18:01:45

    Tibor wrote:

 MS> Tadhg wrote:
 MS>   Technically, in period a "fee" was a source of income, typically land.
 MS>   Also qualifying in later times were fees and perquisites from an office,
 MS>   the "livery and maintenance" given to knights standing castle-guard, and
 MS>   the money fief or "fief-rente" (what we would call a pension or annuity).
 MS>   I don't think lump-sum payments qualify....

 MS> So, what's the problem?  Why can't any and all of these take place?  More
 MS> to the point, in my experience, they do take place.

    Didn't say they couldn't - I was responding to Arval's "It's my fealty
    and I can swear it if I want to" message. Unless he's getting (or
    giving) pensions or equivalent (and occasionaly trinkets do *not*
    qualify), then it ain't fealty.

        Tadhg, Obelisk

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: dgreen@athena (David Greenebaum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Date: 24 Dec 1992 07:56:35 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: athena.berkeley.edu

Hello from Bjalfi!

Quoth Gwydden (Hi Duncharlatans!):
>Quoth Arval, in response to Landi:
>
>> > I'd really like to make it to Pennsic again, or one of the other big
>> > gatherings (is there going to be a Thirty Year Celebration?) and I'd like
>> > to be able to tell my friends to look for my banner without worrying
>> > about the possible dozen or so other banners with the same device...
>>
>> I think this is a serious exaggeration of the potential problem.  First of
>> all, it is unlikely that so many people will design the same device.
>
>Really?  I don't think it's that much of an exaggeration at all, in fact.
>If we eliminated all conflict-checking, I'd be surprised if there weren't
>easily half-a-dozen "Azure, a bend Or" by the next Pennsic, or other
>similar extra-ordinari-ly (wince) simple designs.

We're not talking about eliminating conflict-checking, we're talking about
eliminating the _requirement_ that individual kingdoms' colleges of arms
protect against conflicts in other kingdoms.  My guess is that (at least)
half the kingdoms will set up colleges of arms in which the conflict
rules are just as strict as the current ones.  (It's less work for
those who write the rules, after all.)

Or have I got my threads crossed?  There have been so many different
proposals/suggestions/rants on this subject recently that I'm a bit
dizzy...

>I do agree that some people would strive to maintain uniqueness-- that is,
>would check to insure no one else was using a set of arms before they
>adopted it.  The ones who went to this effort are the ones who would be 
>annoyed when someone else later started using the same arms, not caring
>about uniqueness.

Well, there is that.  But if someone really _really_ wants "Lozengy
sable and Or, a pile issuant bendwise from sinister base gules" (Sorry
Tadgh, 12 words) and doesn't care whether or not he'll conflict with
me, nothing's to stop him from displaying it now anyway.  He just can't
register it in the SCA.

---------------------  Bjalfi Thordharson/College of St. Katherine/Province of
 |\  | |\  |\  |// |       the Mists/Principality of the Mists/West Kingdom
 | > | |\\ | \ |/  |   David Greenebaum/University of California/Berkeley, CA
 |<  | | \ |   |   |   dgreen@athena.berkeley.edu, dgreen@garnet.berkeley.edu
 | > | |   |   |   |
 |/  | |   |   |   |   "I make mistakes, but I am on the side of good -- by
---------------------  accident and happenchance." -- the Golux
From: root@surya.UUCP (Root Account)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: rattan sword-making
Date: 18 Dec 92 20:54:28 GMT
Organization: Sunshine in a box

whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:

> In article <92345.122154HZS@psuvm.psu.edu> Therion <HZS@psuvm.psu.edu> writes
> >Interesting. In all my years of fighting <insert image of old, slow, tired,
> >grizzled stick-jock here>, I don't think that I've *ever* seen a sword cover
> >with shrink tubing. Not even in BMDL, where our new friend Philip is from.
> >My brain is echoing to me a vague memory of reading a "you might want to cov
> >your sword with shrink-tubing" reference somewhere, somewhen, but the idea
> >seems like something I would have seen in my *old, old* fighter's handbook -
> 
> If my fuzzy memory serves, Sir Gerhard Kendall of Westmoreland (Baron
> Lion's Gate) swears by them.  I think he wrote an article on it.
> 
> 	--Hal
> 
>         Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
>         Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
> -- 
> Hal Heydt                    |    
> Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |            You!
> 510-823-5447                 |    Out of the Gene Pool!
> whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |

I tried it once, and only once. It is a BAD idea.
It makes the sword VERY heavy. And after you beat the sword arround a few 
times, it starts to loosen up, and after a while it suddenly goes flying in 
the middle of a shot. Funny, but not fun.

Chandra
From: Joy.Hanson@fbbs.omahug.org (Joy Hanson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Role playing game
Date: 20 Dec 92 22:08:12 CST
Reply-To: joy.hanson@fbbs.omahug.org
Organization: Friend's BBS, Omaha
Followup-To: rec.org.sca

In a message dated 18-DEC-92, Axel Rose writes:

>(From: uplink@cwis.unomaha.edu (Axel Rose))
>(Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha)

>GRS00045@CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU (Neal Townley) writes:

>>Unto the rialto, does Niall MacFarlane send greetings!

>>Gee.. an sca role playing game!
>>I suppose Heralds would be Clerics because of their fanaticism
>>(I cast thee out oh foul devil of heraldic tackyness)

>>and wizards would be Laurels
>>(I dont know about you... but I think some of the stuff I've seen
>>made by our A+S people are pritty damn magical to me...)

>>and me.. I'm a bard.. always have been.. always will be...

>	May I ask... WHY??? I always thought the SCA was one BIG roleplaying
>game... at least, that's the way the Barony of Lonely Tower treats it!

>--
>uplink
>End of Line.


.
Excuse me Milord, but being a member of the Barony of Lonely Tower I am
very confused as to what you mean.  Could you please explain a bit more
clearly on what you base this?  Pray give me some examples, or tell me
how long you have been around or in the Barony.
I await your answer with a confused expression (which can be easy bieng a
blonde saxon! grin)
.
Yours in Service,
Lady Juelda of Salisbury
From: pwr@jab.tucson.az.us (Patrick Reed)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Non fighting royalty
Keywords: Arts, Sciences, Competition, Judging
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 93 05:35:43 MST
Organization: Just Another Bbs. Tucson, AZ

Volfred quotes Dennis:

> I suppose one could run an A&S competition like this, too :
> Let every contestant judge every other contestant's work. Keep
> the works anonymous. The person who gets the best score wins.

  It is my opinion that a system like this would serve to better educate 
the membership of the SCA.  If more people were to be exposed to the 
documentation through judging, a higher awareness of various topics might 
be attained.
 
  Have a random selection of judges at A & S competitions, and allow 
voulunteers to top off the list, as a possible solution.
 
  Broaden the scoring range to allow input from those judges who possess 
limited knowledge.

Volfred
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: TALLAN@flis.utoronto.ca (David Tallan)
Subject: Re: Anglo-Saxon Personae
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 12:38:27 GMT

In SCA Digest V5 #847 Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin writes

> (I
> live in the latish ninth century myself and Charlemagne died about the
> time I was born, but things haven't changed that much except for all these
> pesky Vikings roaming about.....)

Unless you count the decisive shift in the center of pwer from Mercia
to Wessex as a significant change.

David Tallan, who has been known as AEthelwold Mierca, AEthelstan
Eardstapa, etc. etc., occasionally AEthelclan BUT NEVER Aethel Merman
David Tallan (tallan@flis.utoronto.ca)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: zrwb15@hou.amoco.com (R. Wendel Bordelon, 594w3)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Primitive FireArms
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:21:39 GMT
Reply-To: zrwb15@hou.amoco.com
Organization: Amoco

In article 725741149@utkvm1.utk.edu, pa124548@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer) writes:
>In article <DOCONNOR.92Dec30085832@potato.sedona.intel.com> doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor) writes:
>>Recurves are period.....
>
>Could you document that? 

During my Christmas shopping I came across a wonderful book that was a reproduction
of maps of the Major cities in the 16th century.  Alas I do not have the reference
info on this map with me... but..

In that book was a map of Moscow with nice border decoration of the country side and 
2 mounted archers both with recurve bows.  Granted this is very thin documentation
because I have yet to supply the title and cartographer but its a start.

--Wendel 
---
R. Wendel Bordelon    
Amoco Production Co    | Internet zrwb15@hou.amoco.com  
501 WestLake Park Blvd | X.400 c=US a=ATTMAIL p=AMOCO s=Bordelon g=Wendel i=W
Houston, Tx 77256 USA  | Phone: +1 713-584-7535      <I SPEAK ONLY FOR MYSELF>