From: hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: So whats in a constitution.......?
Date: 28 Dec 92 15:38:48 GMT
Reply-To: hira@cme.nist.gov
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology

In article <1992Dec24.205231.22142@athena.mit.edu>, tyadav@athena.mit.edu (T.Y.) writes:
|> From: tyadav@athena.mit.edu (T.Y.)
|> Subject: Re: So whats in a constitution.......?
|> 
|>  My apologies Ron - the word *access* - wasn't left out purposely.
|>  It was left out because it seemed, to me, unimportant/redundant here.
|>  May be I am wrong; in which case let me know what makes the word
|>  *access* important here. Need I quote education/schools related stuff from
|>  Perot infomercials :).

Well, I think it is quite relevant. Maybe an example will suffice. I 
grew up in white middle class suburbia and attended public school in
the 'burbs. In 5th grade the county instituted busing, a very 
controversial policy in many areas at the time (particularly in racist
Boston). The policy's main aim was to equalize access to educational 
opptys for the inner city kids and kids in the 'burbs. I was bused from 
a school that was built in 1972 to a school that was built in 1929. 
The ages of the schools only scratch the surface of the differences 
between the 2 schools. BTW, I consider it one of the most illuminating
experiences of my childhood. 

Now, the point of the story is that until busing was instituted, the 
inner city kids did *not* have the same access to an education that 
the suburban kids had. Not only were the facilities decrepit, but 
the teachers were not of the same quality either. Is this clear?

|>  And don't forget that we both agree on:
|> 
|> >|>  Education is something which an individual works for. The four walls of 
|> >|>  a university (ivy league or otherwise) is not what makes "education." 
|> >
|> >I strongly agree with this stmt. Wow, we actually agree on something.
|> 
|>  So, what do you mean by "equal access to education?"
|>  Apparently that wouldn't be four walls of a university - that ain't what
|>  makes education; therefore access to four walls would be superficial.

Let me clarify my stmt a bit. Four walls for one who is mature enough 
to understand the importance of an education or vocational skills is 
one thing, but for a child that is given no oppty to learn is another.
Not every child is as independent as you might seem to think, IMO.

[Stuff about higher education subsidies deleted]

|>  access to education mean equal access to MIT? Or does that mean govt
|>  should tax more and spend equally on everyone? I think both these policies 
|>  are destructive.

Maybe the govt should spread the wealth more evenly. Something like the 
top 20 institutions get over 80% of the research money. Is this equitable,
or even a free market system? I'd say that this is in large part an 
old boys network. As an undergraduate student of one of those institutions,
I felt pretty neglected. As an adjunct prof of a research oriented 
university, albeit much less competitive, I can see the complete lack 
of interest in the students by the faculty. Anyway, you must be aware of
this, and I'm going off on a tangent. 
 
|>  Well, I prefer competition and free choice for the customer (free market
|>  in other words). "Equal opportunity for anything" with time becomes
|>  "equal misery for everyone." Everything moves with the rate limiting 
|>  constraint. That is not in the interest of anyone.

I really don't see how equal oppty can be translated into equal misery. 
As a matter of fact, increasing the pool of available candidates can 
only make the society more productive, and more competitive.

[Your story deleted]
|>  Lets pursue reason.

Is there but one way to reason? Is there one truth? I think that one's
experiences affect one's thinking greatly, and its important to have
some bkgd materiel. Your story is quite impressive, and a bit enlightening
on your attitudes. In fact it reminds me a bit of Clarence Thomas. 

|>  Still wondering, what "equal access to education" really means?

Well, how about filling us in on what you think should be done, if 
anything, to the current educational system.

Ron