From: ra@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (Starcap'n Ra)
Subject: Re: Sexist?  Dangerous?
Organization: soc.women
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:59:19 GMT

barry@netcom.com (Kenn Barry) writes:
> 	Suppose it was at a costume party; Halloween, perhaps, or the
> Hooker's Ball?

     Well since the whole idea of a costume party
is for everyone to dress unusually, comments on
personal appearance would be appropriate to the
occasion.

> Suppose it was at a single's event, where meeting
> strangers is the name of the game?

     No.

     Of course, I'm talking about opening comments from
a stranger.  After meeting someone at a single's event
and talking 10 or 15 minutes on other subjects, I might
then consider making a comment on their appearance if
I really felt the overwhelming need to and it was
a private conversation.

> Or from a "safe" distance, like across the street,

     No, almost even worse.  It would seem too much
like heckling.

>  and in an innocuous manner? Suppose "nice hat" is a
> lead-in to asking where you bought it, because he'd
> like to get one just like it?

     The whole point of fashion is being clever enough
to dress better than everyone else, Kenn!  :-)  It's
rude to ask someone to divulge their fashion secrets
and thus allow everyone else to look as good as they
were clever and resourceful enough to do on their own.
Try asking a lot of people with unusually clever stuff
where they bought it and see how many vague "Oh I don't
remember"s, "Oh it was a gift"s, and such you get.

> 	I think "appeals to the referee" in such trivial matters of
> social etiquette are just a way of avoiding responsibility for making a
> personal judgement of the situation, and further poison a social
> atmosphere which is often pretty poisonous already.

     Your point is well taken, and I share your
remorse about poison social atmosphere, but with all
the shit a woman has to take from hordes of rude men
every single day, you can't really expect them to be
all that concerned about hurting your feelings.
They just get *tired*, if not downright angry, you
know?  And remember, she has no responsibility to
communicate at all, never mind make a personal
judgment of your character at first impression just
because you happen to feel like informing her of
something about which she's probably already quite
aware.

     As regards the poisonous social atmosphere of
which you speak, I will only go so far in catering
to that.  I won't make remarks to strangers on their
appearance, but on the other hand I won't go so far
as to cross the street just because some woman
approaching in the opposite direction might be afraid.

> Tell me one needs to exercise judgement and I'll agree
> with you; tell me a compliment that was well-meant and
> well-received is a social sin by definition, and I won't,
> no matter what Miss Manners says.

     Well fair enough; of course, nothing is
absolute. (?)  But really, don't you find listening
to women fawning over each other's outfits tedious
at best?

--Starcap'n Ra       {ames,gatech,husc6,rutgers}!ncar!noao!asuvax!kennedy
                        {allegra,decvax,ihnp4,oddjob}--^
                                          ^---------------The Wrong Choice
                             internet: kennedy@asuvax.asu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men