From: hakim@bigq.enet.dec.com (Kamran Hakim)
Subject: Re: Some more info on the Baha'is
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 09:25:29 GMT


In article <1992Jul23.173605.1974@ucunix.san.uc.edu>, minhaszt@ucunix.san.
uc.edu (Zafar T Minhas) you write:

ZM>Salama alaikum everyone, this is your friendly neighborhood Zafar. I just came
ZM>back from a vacation to the old country, and it was marvelous. I enjoyed myself
ZM>very much and I feel very refreshed.
ZM>I have been reading something aout this bahai issue and like I said I would I
ZM>did some research on the subject. It is very interesting indeed. There are alot
ZM>of things I have on my mind, so here goes.

I am glad to see you have enjoyed your vacation Zafar.

ZM>Bahai's claim that Baha-ullah's hand
ZM>was guided by God in all of his writing, I saw recommendations in other groups
ZM>(soc.culture.pakistan) to read the book Kitab-e-Iqdas, which was said to be 
ZM>written in Arabic. 

Two points: Reflect on the history of Islam and determine for yourself
the criticisms focused on Muhammad and His style of writing. Qur'an was a
source of laughter and Muhammad was called a crazy poet. Now, the Qur'an
is a model among Muslims. There is lesson in this which I hope you are
capable of realizing. Point #2: In soc.culture.pakistan I referred to the
Book of Certitude and other Arabic Tablets of Baha'u'llah and not Aqdas. 
Nevertheless, the Book of Aqdas is in Arabic.

ZM>The grammar in the book is very bad, I as
ZM>a student of Arabic can write better than this,.... I asked myself, the 
ZM>Bahais claim 
ZM>that the Quran is the word of God, it is written in a very powerful language
ZM>the grammar is correct of all things, what happened in Kitab-e-Iqdas, if that
ZM>is the word of God? 

Reflect on the point I have made above, the answer to your comment is 
there.

ZM>The case of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed and Baha-ullah are interesting. 

I will not comment on Ahmadiyat. One of the Ahmadi friends can do justice
on this issue.

ZM>Both 
ZM>said that they were the Mahdi, both said on other occasions that they were not.
ZM>Both said that they were prophets of God meant to spread their mission over the
ZM>earth. Both said they were not. Both claimed command over the Arabic language, 
ZM>their writings proved otherwise. Both existed around the same time! Among all 
ZM>of these which one is true?

You are CONFUSED my friend. Gholam Ahmad claimed to be the Mihdi. His
followers believe that Issa'bn-i Maryam and Mihdi are the SAME person.
Baha'is believe that The Bab fulfilled the prophecies of Mihdi and 
Baha'u'llah is the descent of Issa'bn-i Maryam. Baha'u'llah IS NOT Mihdi.

ZM>I ask the Bahai friends how can one be a prophet of God and not be one at the 
ZM>same time? Kamran is bent upon proving that he was a prophet of God while 
ZM>another Bahai, Hooshyar was trying to convince a fellow netter that he was not
ZM>a prophet of God. 

Once again you are very confused my friend. Please not that one might ask, 
but does neither LISTEN, nor UNDERSTAND. For your sake I will post a series 
of four articles following this to talk.religion.misc under the heading 
"The Baha'i perspective of the term `Seal of the Prophets'", hoping that 
you pay attention and possibly understand before you attempt to comment.

ZM>According to Kamran, Bahais believe that prophets will come
ZM>again and again. But acording to Hooshyar, the last prophet was and always will
ZM>be Muhammad ben Abdullah, and anything following Muhammad will be considered a
ZM>Manifestation of God. It seems that Bahais differ on their basic beliefs. 

According to Kamran, Hooshyar, Mark, and 5 million other Baha'is: Please
refer to my postings in talk.religion.misc.

ZM>This
ZM>is even more serious a contradiction than the Sunni/Shia dilemma who differ on
ZM>a lot of things but not the basic beliefs.

:-)

ZM>The Bahais are bent on convincing us that there are equal rights for women, and
ZM>in a manner which indicates equal in all senses, 

It will be an honor to make a comparison between the station of women in
the Baha'i Faith and Islam. Would you like to participate in such an
exchange?

ZM>Another aspect of the telling of whether a person is a true prophet or not
ZM>is by the action of his followers... "By their fruits ye shall know them..."

I am surprised to see a Muslim friend quoting from the Bible! Nevertheless,
such is the judgment of the Lord and the ultimate criterion for establish-
ing true from false. Baha'is welcome such an approach.

ZM>In essence I have not seen anything in Bahai that would distinguish itself as a
ZM>true religion, the more I read the more I am ambivalent about it.

If everyone examines the Baha'i Faith in the manner your are suggesting,
then the world would be purged of all its evils. I can only respect your 
approach.

In your reply to Saied you write:

ZM>This is zafar again. I believe that what farzin said is true, i read different
ZM>version of kitab-e-eqan. I noticed that many sentences and sometimes even
ZM>paragraphs were different where they should have been the same. I thought this
ZM>was something I overlooked, but I read the books again and it could not have
ZM>been innocent errors. There were really intentional differences. In order to
ZM>make sure I took another version of the eqan and found that to have differences
ZM>from the other two, so the book has been changed. 

Since you have read the Iqan twice, please offer a summary of the book,
and cite some of the inconsistencies by page number. I am looking
forward to your demonstration. I am very interested in seeing some of
the different versions of Iqan would you supply me with the copies?
I will be very happy to cover the expense.

ZM>And as far as Bahai's 
ZM>believing in miracles, ask Hooshyar and Kamran if they believe in miracles, ask
ZM>them if they believe bahaullah performed miracles. Why just a few postings ago
ZM>Kamran was talking about the miracles of bahaullah.

Please inform us about my beliefs. Please quote from my postings.

ZM>It seems that when he (Farzin) is providing quotes you say that it is a fabrication or
ZM>that it is a misinterpretation of what was meant. 

But Farzin did not write that! One of his friends did. The quotations
supplied by Farzin's friend will God-willing be addressed to offer
another perspective for the readership of this newsgroup.

Warm regards,

Kamran Hakim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian