HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hp@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Peter Holzer)
Subject: Re: List of voters in ESF award so far
Organization: Technical University Vienna, Dept. for Realtime Systems, AUSTRIA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 15:56:17 GMT

flee@cs.psu.edu (Felix Lee) writes:

>Here's a different reason for not voting.  Trying to rank, say,
>"Buffalo" v. "In the Late Cretaceous" is rather like trying to rank an
>apple v. an orange.  Which fruit do you prefer?  Which fruit is closer
>to the epitome of fruitiness?  Which fruit would you give an award to?

>Liking both apples and oranges, I find this decision difficult to make.

Yes, but there are days when I prefer apples, and there are days when
I prefer oranges. When I ranked the stories, I did not try to find the
best story, but the one I enjoyed most when I read it (Which happened
to be `Press Ann'. Maybe, when I read them again, I will find `In the
Late Cretaceous' better; depends on my tastes and my mood). Basically I
just wrote them down in the order they came into my mind when I asked
myself which stories I would recommend to a friend (Now, since I have
read these stories two weeks ago and not recommended any of them to
anybody, I guess I should have ranked `No Award' on first position)

-- 
|    _  | Peter J. Holzer                       | Think of it   |
| |_|_) | Technical University Vienna           | as evolution  |
| | |   | Dept. for Real-Time Systems           | in action!    |
| __/   | hp@vmars.tuwien.ac.at                 |     Tony Rand |
From: tgg@otter.hpl.hp.com (Tom Gardner)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 10:44:51 GMT
Subject: Re: Dealing with Jump shock (Re: The Moat around God's Eye)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written

|As a simple example, a good look at the human body shows that the plumbing
|system leaves room for improvement, to put it mildly.  Yet this design is
|locked into a rather large number of species.

I know it isn't SF, but there are other examples of this. Consider an engineer
designing a mechanism for observing objects (== an eye!). Which way would you 
design it:

	L	.----R			L = lens
	L	|.---R			|-. = interconnecting nerves	
	L	||.--R			R = photoreceptor
	L	|||.-R
	L	||||
	L	|||.-------
	L	||.--------	-> to the brain
	L	|.---------
	L	.----------

or
	L	R----------
        L       R----------	 -> to the brain
        L       R----------
        L       R----------

i.e. would you force the photons to go through a forest of "wires" to reach the
photoreceptors, or would you bring the wires out the back of the eye. 

Right. Obvious isn't it. At least to any competent engineer. But God got it
wrong in the human eye. This is a superb way of demonstrating either the
non-existence of God or that God is fundamentally incompetant. Take your choice.
From: root@dupa.UUCP (George Brickner)
Subject: Re: Gerrold
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Date: 30 Jul 92 04:45:47 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Dupa T. Parrot, Ltd.

cracicot@us.oracle.com writes:
> Does anybody know when/if the final book of the
> Rage For Revenge / Matter for Men / Day for Damnation
> series will be published.

  Look for _A Season For Slaughter_ in early 1993. Book #5 won't be too far
behind #4 (according to Gerrold).

	-George
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
George S. Brickner    UUCP......: uunet!dupa!root
Chicago, IL USA       Internet..: 70040.104@compuserve.com or root@dupa.UUCP
(312) 267-4690        CompuServe: 70040,104
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: 10726446@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (LAU WAI KUEN)
Subject: Re: BOOKS BY DAVID EDDINGS
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, Monash University 
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 01:52:15 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.175120.14387@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> ericg@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (E. Chris Garrison) writes:
>From: ericg@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (E. Chris Garrison)
>Subject: Re: BOOKS BY DAVID EDDINGS
>Date: 22 Jul 92 17:51:20 GMT

>In article <10726446.78.711694821@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au> 10726446@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (LAU WAI KUEN) writes:
>>In article <920720153956.4340081f@bigvax.alfred.edu> BANKERR@BIGVAX.ALFRED.EDU writes:
>>>From: BANKERR@BIGVAX.ALFRED.EDU
>>>Subject: BOOKS BY DAVID EDDINGS
>>>Date: 20 Jul 92 19:39:56 GMT
>>
>>
>>
>>    Very good.  I find that sums up all the books Mr Eddings has written 
>>extremely well.  Do you want to comment on the crap he vomits up too?
>>
>>Halcyon

>Actually, I found David Eddings' works to be entertaining and
>interesting, even if they are not masterworks of fiction.  I was
>particularly fond of the characters and cultures he created in
>the _Belgariad_ and the _Mallorean_.  

>I think Mr. Eddings is a better craftsman of fantasy than many of 
>the current authors of the genre, and viewed his series as light
>fantasy.  

>I realize that you are free to express your opinions, no matter
>how negative, "Halycon", but please don't squelch other peoples'
>opinions, either. 

>Eric



>-- 
>------
>E. Chris Garrison
>Technical Support
>ericg@ucs.indiana.edu

   Pah!  I would have a lot more respect for people's opinions if there was 
any intelligence in them.  From experience, the people I know reading 
Mr Edding's work like _all_ of it, and consider him a fantastic writer.  The 
fact that he is incapable of writing more than one plot (and instead 
rehashes the same one) doesn't bother them a whit.  I found two points 
_really_ annoying about the Belgariad;
 1.  The characters are written either in a likable or dislikable frame, 
depending on whether they're heroes or villans respectively.  The reader    
isn't given a chance to make up their own minds. 

 2.  Polgara.  Once I started thinking of her as a villan, every one of her 
actions take a sour note.  Everything is written to portray her in a good 
light; all the people consider her to be good and kind and beautiful.  But 
if you ignore Mr Eddings love affair with her, she becomes spiteful and 
generally evil.  Case in point; when she 'cure' the blind seeress.  She 
casually takes away the woman's life and powers, and walks away.  The old 
hag probably dies a few weeks later from starvation.  
    The other characters are just as bad as this;  I've only singled out one 
because this is the worst of the lot.

Halcyon

"The shallow recover quickly.  You can't bruise a pillow."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.)
Subject: Re: Have Niven&Pournelle described Alderson drive anywhere?
Organization: University of Houston Administrative Computing
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:38:39 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <1992Jul28.101117.7137@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> rclark@lpl.arizona.edu writes:

> If there are other articles or details, such as in the earlier books by
> Pournelle set in this universe (A Spaceship for the King is the only one I
> know of) I would be interested in hearing about them too.

  Other books by Pournelle in the Mote universe include:

  West of Honor
  The Mercenary
  Falkenberg's Legion (contains both above books and a short story)
  Prince of Mercenaries
  Go Tell the Spartans

  All these stories are Pre-First Empire (during the Codiminium), and here 
and there have tidbits about the drive.  Then there is the _War World_ 
anthology series, where most of the stories take place right after the Secess-
ion Wars, and largely on a single planet.

semper fi,

Jammer Jim Miller 
Texas A&M University '89 and '91
********************************************************************************
* Aggie in Cougarland -- I just work here.				       *
* Speak for my employers?  They don't even know I exist!		       *
*"Become one with the Student Billing System. *BE* the Student Billing System."*
*             *********************************************		       *
* "Power finds its way to those who take a stand.  Stand up, Ordinary Man."    *
*      ---Rik Emmet, Gil Moore, Mark Levine: Triumph 		               *
********************************************************************************
From: dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: "Buffalo" is SF?  /Hugo nominated/ SF?!
Date: 26 Jul 92 19:30:23 GMT
Reply-To: dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann)
Organization: University of Arizona

I just finished reading "Buffalo", by John Kessel.  (Thanks to
Brad Templeton, btw).

I am left with two questions:

1. What exactly about this story makes it SF?  Except for the use of
   H. G. Wells as a character, I saw no SFnal elements at all.

2. I found this story disappointing.  Kessel does a reasonable job
   of portraying believable characters, but... what's the point?

-- 
There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension
as vast as space and as timeless as infinity.  It is the middle ground between
light and shadow, between science and superstition. And it lies between the pit
of Man's fears and the summit of his knowledge.  This is the dimension of
imagination -- it is an area which we call "The Twilight Zone".
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Keyes' "Flowers for Algernon"
Date: 28 Jul 92 20:38:42 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Jul28.183602.26699@crd.ge.com> leue@crd.ge.com (Bill  
Leue) writes:
> >
> >Yes, it was first published (in _Astounding_? One of those 60's mags,
> >anyway) as a novella. The novel came later.
> >
> 
> 	I think it was actually published in Fantasy & Science Fiction,
> 	if memory serves me right, not Astounding.

Correct.  Also, Astounding wasn't a 60s magazine. It changed its name
to Analog in 1960.

--
Jim Mann       jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  Stratus Computer
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup)
Subject: Re: 10 Best Space Operas (Written / Film)
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 09:32:52 GMT

Any list of 10 best Space Operas must contain Brian Daley's
Alacrity Fitzhugh and Hobart Floyd books. Preferably as
number one.

Iain M. Banks certainly also qualifies. He has the scope and 
the technology right at least in 'Consider Phlebas'.

In article <1992Jul26.175045.22709@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> at674@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Pete Nofel) writes:
>
>In the Re: space opera -- definition thread someone suggested a
>list of the 10 best. Here's an off-the-cuff contribution in no
>particular ranking:
>
>   Written                        Film
>
>The Mote in God's Eye          Star Wars
>Skylark of Space               The Return of the Jedi
>Footfall                       ST:TNG, the Borg episodes

Footfall isn't Space Opera as I understand it.

Greetings,
--Mike

-- 
#include <std-disclm.h>--"... and there is a small flaw in my character."---
Real Life: Michael Christian Heide Qvortrup      A Dane         ETH, Zuerich
e-mail   : qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch                  abroad         Switzerland
Institut fuer wissenschaftliches Rechnen  /  Inst. of Scientific Computation
From: cedman@714-725-3165.nts.uci.edu (Carl Edman)
Subject: Re: awful fantasy (Dragonlance SPOILERS)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Reply-To: cedman@golem.ps.uci.edu (Carl Edman)
Date: 30 Jul 92 16:48:59 GMT

"Patrick M. Phalen", FSAC-PMD writes
> Don't limit them to one bad book.  Anything in the
> _Dragonlance_ series pretty much sucked.  Besides that,
> the premise of writing books so that TSR could introduce a
> new world to D&D (new books, new modules, 'mo money, 'mo
> money).  The whole premise just really bothered me. 

I agree mostly. One exception which I would make though is the second  
Dragonlance trilogy. While it basically is a fairly typical (though not  
sub-standard) epic quest plot, the quest in this case is not one to kill the  
evil guy and safe the universe, but one to become the evil guy, kill the gods  
and destroy the universe. And while I think that if this quest was successful,  
the books would have been better, on the whole I found that the twist made them  
rather entertaining.

	Carl Edman
From: esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Motie threads --- a note of appreciation
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:13:37 GMT
Distribution: world

I'd like to take a moment and congratulate everyone involved on the high
quality of the postings dealing with the Motie problem.

These threads have been going on for weeks.  They've supported intelligent
discussions of ethics, population biology, speculative physics, and several
other subjects bearing on the Niven/Pournelle universe.  There have been
some spirited arguments but I have yet to see a flame.

Over the last couple of days, I've been reading these postings and thinking,
"by Ghod, this is what the net *ought* to be like" but too often is not.
This note is intended as positive reinforcement.  Thank you, all.
-- 
      					Eric S. Raymond = esr@snark.thyrsus.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jsinger@ascoli.WPI.EDU (Joel Singer)
Subject: Re: The Moat around God's Eye
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:41:52 GMT

Actually, this idea of hiding out in the Oort cloud might prove a possible way
for an enterprising (read:  Crazy Eddie) master to try and break the Cycles.
The Oort cloud may not be habitable, but say one master decides to send his
entire "family," including himself, on a long round-trip cometary orbit 
through the Oort cloud.  (They have the suspended-animation techniques from
the original light-sail probe.)  The master times his ship to come back in the
middle of the Moties' most savage period of breakdown, whereupon with his own
loyal Warriors he takes over the planet.  His last step is to impose the birth
control hormonal shots for all other Masters except himself and direct, loyal
progeny.  He's got the entire planet under his thumb, with control of the
Warriors, mediators, and all masters.  Bingo.  Cycles broken.

Oh, yeah, there might be some practical problems along the way, but in theory
this ought to work.  Any suggestions as to why it hasn't happened?


*  Teddy Bear  *			[jsinger@jarthur.claremont.edu]
*  Harvey Mudd College  *
    "This is like juggling seven Faberge eggs in variable gravity."
   (You've never heard of Harvey Mudd?  Think CalTech, but better...)
From: eesshlgb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (S H L G Bisson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Iain Banks
Date: 28 Jul 92 15:59:53 GMT
Organization: School of Electrical Engineering, University of Bath, UK

In article <1b67c4cd.ARN2209@prolix.pub.uu.oz.au> munnari!labtam!eyrie!prolix!dac writes:
>I posted this here in r.a.sf.written, because one section of the
>book foretold of the publication of one of Banks' later works:
>
>	Frank has been imbibing the night before.  Anyway, his
>	father religiously sends off a manuscript to a publisher,
>	every year, expounding his theory, entitled 'The State of
>	the Fart'"
>
>Which struck me as being most amusing, considering the current
>discussion about Banks' work in r.a.sf-written.

Not entirely unsurprising, as it's not exactly a secret that most of Banks'
Sf was written before _The_Wasp_Factory_ (and then published in reverse order),
and Iain does have something of a miscehevious sense of what can loosely be
described as "humour".

His slipstream work is well worth digging out, especially _Espedair_Street_
and _The_Crow_Road_. Avoid _Canal_Dreams_, it reads like an obligation...

--=-
Simon H Le g Bisson...no, no, not another trip to Hay-on-Wye..................
-+--
From: swf@teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Restricted breeding (was Re: The Moat around God's Eye)
Date: 21 Jul 92 15:03:02 GMT
Reply-To: swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Organization: NCR Teradata Database Business Unit

In article <IeNlpMe00VsGM7525q@andrew.cmu.edu> ap1i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Andrew C. Plotkin) writes:
|Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.written: 17-Jul-92 Re: Restricted
|breeding (wa.. Michael Friedman@uucp (2340)
|> Alternative Hypothesis:  Rabbits that avoid breeding during bad times
|> are more likely to survive a year or two until they can bree
|> successfuly than rabbits that breed indiscrimminately.  Therefore,
|> rabbits have evolved a mechanism to avoid breeding when conditions are
|> bad.
|
|Feh, semantic arguments. 
|
|It is common (and easily-understood) shorthand to say "animal X does Y
|in order to avoid Z" when what is really meant is "behavior Y has
|evolved in X because it tends to prevent maladaptive result Z."

Couldn't agree more.  Maybe Michael should read some of Ernst Mayr's
essays on teleonomic systems.  Use of 'end-oriented' language does
*not* necessarily imply *intent*, just purpose.  (Try "Towards a New
Philosophy of Biology", at least I think that's the title).

|The statement you originally challenged was:
|
|>>This is, in gross aproximation, why most life forms on Earth do not go
|>>in for unlimited fecundity.  It may make for a good *short* term strategy,
|>>but the more conservative strategy tends to win in the long run, simply by
|>>avoiding the crashes.
|>
|> [....] please name a single species that restrains its population
|> growth for this reason.
|
|and the rabbits and mice were given as examples. I think they're still
|good examples, although it's true that when there's plenty of free food
|and empty space they go over to "as many babies as you can turn out."
|
|(And note that you were the one who first used the "intentional"
|shorthand for evolved behaviors: "name a species which restrains its
|population growth for this reason." No species, except *maybe* homo sap,
|does anything for a "reason". But it saves bandwidth.)
|
Or, to put it in Ernst Mayr's terms, teleological language does not
require *intentionality*, only goal-directed behavior.

As Mr. Plotkin said, I stand by my original presentation, it is correct
as it stands.

Now, Michael, if you want more details on population biology, and reproductive
strategies in living things here on Earth, I can post as long an article
as you would like, since I have an extensive library on the subject.

I suggest you read more on the subject before you jump to conclusions.
Motie reproductive biology is something that would never actually evolve,
or if it did evolve, it would not last long in that form.
-- 
sarima@teradata.com			(formerly tdatirv!sarima)
  or
Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
From: bobm@Ingres.COM (Bob McQueer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: SUMMARY: Books From Alien Perspective.
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:02:45 GMT

Oh, another one, and quite good:

"The Crucible of Time", by John Brunner - in some ways this reminds me of
Forward's "Dragon's Egg", in that it covers many generations of development
by an alien culture, as they become progressively more scientifically
knowledgeable.  Brunner's setting isn't nearly as strange, but it is
interesting, and he is basically a much better writer than Forward.  Also,
Brunner's novel has no mention of humans, except possibly for a very oblique
incidental reference at the end of the book (and you have to read something
into that one).  If we ever get to rate Brunner in the author polls, I may
stick this one in my with a +1.  It's an unusual effort, and it works.
From: dac@prolix.pub.uu.oz.au (Andrew Clayton)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Iain Banks
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 04:10:21 GMT
Reply-To: munnari!labtam!eyrie!prolix!dac
FollowUp-To: rec.arts.sf.written
Keywords: 
Organization: More like Dis~, really.

After reading Banks' three excellent books _Consider Phlebas_,
_Use of Weapons_, _Player of Games_, I was overcome with the urge
to buy anything with 'Iain Banks' on the cover.

So I purchased _The Wasp Factory_, which was his first published
novel.

This is one sick book.  I think I secretly desire to like it,
although I am quite nauseated by the level of detail that Banks'
main character goes into, when killing, maiming, whatevering his
``opponents.''

Not SF, not at all, but if you liked the twisted humour of his
Culture books, I think you'll like _The Wasp Factory_.

I posted this here in r.a.sf.written, because one section of the
book foretold of the publication of one of Banks' later works:

	Frank's (the protagonist) father has some weird theory 
        that he can tell a lot about people from their farts.
	Frank disagrees, considering the theory stupid, even
	though his father is surprising accurate at guess what
	Frank has been imbibing the night before.  Anyway, his
	father religiously sends off a manuscript to a publisher,
	every year, expounding his theory, entitled 'The State of
	the Fart'"

Which struck me as being most amusing, considering the current
discussion about Banks' work in r.a.sf-written.

Your mileage may vary.

Dac
--
munnari!labtam!eyrie!prolix!dac      David Andrew Clayton.           // _| _  _
  prolix!dac%eyrie@labtam.oz.au      Canberra, Australia           \X/ (_](_](_
        dac@prolix.pub.uu.oz.au      I post .
prolix!dac@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au            . . I am.             +61 6 290 2215
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ca572@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark L. Stackpole)
Subject: Re: Name of Book about Prison Planet
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 15:57:31 GMT


The book you're thinking of is _Infinity_Hold_ by Barry B.
Longyear: one of his 12-Step program/AA novels. Another is
_The_God_Box_, if you're into that kind of thing. Both are
out of print, I believe.

Mark Stackpole    Rocky.Claremont.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science
From: charles@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Charles Jacob Cohen)
Subject: Re: Great SF Shorts
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:46:15 GMT

In article <9207211604.AA02251@rutgers.edu> D.GEISLER@ACAD.SUFFOLK.EDU writes:
>I will be teaching a course in the Fall semester on science fiction,
>and I would like some help in choosing good examples of short fiction
>to have my students read.
>
>Ideally, such short fiction should be "science" fictional in nature;
>that is, it should not be from the fantasy end of the genre.  It can,
>however, be any sort of short story or brief novella from the science-
>oriented focus of speculative fiction.
>


A good source for short fiction is "The Best of Frederik Brown" edited
by Fredrik Polk (I can't spell Fred, sorry).   Some are mysteries, but
most are SF, and all are very very very good.  Lots of themes that
were more original during his time.  I wish he had written more :(

- chuck
.

-- 
"I do not feel obliged to believe that same God who endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect, had intended for us to forgo their use." - Galileo
"I'm an engineer, not a dictionary!" - Me
From: rawdon@cabrales.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Clark Ashton Smith (was Re: Lovecraft Thread)
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:19:06 GMT
Reply-To: rawdon@cabrales.cs.wisc.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Dept., Madison, WI

In <9207211339.AA12850@rutgers.edu> WTS@harvarda.BITNET ("WADE T. SMITH") writes:
>This should be the time to mention my personal favorite among the
>great purveyors of scares and lurid prose-
>Clark Ashton Smith (no relation) who IMHO constantly out Lovecraft's
>Lovecraft, out Poe's Poe, out Hawthorne's Hawthorne, and is largely
>ignored by today's generation!
>I'm not even sure he's still in print.
>I'm holding on to my dog-eared volumes.

I found copies of the _Zothique_ and _Xiccarphe_ (sp?) collections a few years
ago - used.  I agree that Smith in general is a better writer than Lovecraft.
Though at his best ("In The Walls Of Eryx", "The Lurking Fear", "The Shadow
Out Of Time", and several others) Lovecraft is at least as good.  Smith was
more consistent, though.

-- 
Michael Rawdon
rawdon@cabrales.cs.wisc.edu
University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Department, Madison, WI

"...I trusted [Ganelon] like a brother.  That is to say, not at all."
				- Roger Zelazny, _The_Guns_Of_Avalon_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written