HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: john@sequent.com (John Vander Borght)
Subject: Re: John Daly
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: sqnt
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 18:03:29 GMT

bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) writes:

>In article <C0HJFH.14o@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> mftjs@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (T. Jerry Scott) writes:
>>In article <1ifrlmINN4k@chnews.intel.com> bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) writes:
>>>We don't need this in golf; never have; never will.
>>
>>I guess Walter Hagen and the old guys never had problems with the booze,
>>or does your golf memory not go back far enough.  

>Walter Hagen (the guy who put professional golfers on the
>map) may have been a drinker, but he didn't bring a jerk
>attitude and a million jerk fans to the game with him.

Neither did John Daly.

People where yelling "You the man" long before John Daly.  People were
being disrespectful and hassling Greg Norman at Shinnecock or Ian Woosnam
at Augusta before anyone heard of John Daly.  To blame him for the poor
behavior of some golf fans and golfers is TOTALLY unfair.

He certainly doesn't have a jerk attitude.  I've seen some people around
this newsgroup complain of his pumping his arm as he walked up the 18th
fairway at the PGA.  I believe that if you look at the tapes of other
victories, you'd see things like Curtis Strange doing a similar thing at Oak
Hills or Jack Nicklaus throwing his putter high up in the air when he won
the US Open at Baltusrol (I think that is where it was) etc.

>Daly's style and his contingent detract from the game for
>every other player and every fan of any other player.

>Golf was fine without the yahoos who think "oh, cool, let's
>go show these golf guys how to have fun."  It's less fun
>with their insipid, loud, distracting attitudes towards the
>players and other fans.

5 years ago I attended the Greater Greensboro Open and saw the fans behind
the 17th green being drunk, rowdy and loud.  I don't think that anyone in
the stands had even heard of John Daly.

I've recently read stories of the British fans back in the teens and
twenties rooting against the Americans who came over to play and creating
havoc.

Arnold Palmer's Army was often criticized for the unfair way they treated
other players.

Golf has always had its bad fans, just like any other sport.  Don't blame
John Daly for that, he has nothing to do with it.

>				--Blair
>				  "Pass me my mashie."
----
"The hero-worshippers in his gallery ought to appreciate that somebody has
to play along with Arnold to keep his score if nothing else."
		- Dave Hill, Teed Off, 1977

"I told 'em, 'If you want to laugh, you have two choices: Either go to a
circus or I'll bury this eight-iron in your head.'"
		- David Graham, to fans at the British Open, 1981


John Vander Borght
john@sequent.com
-- 
"Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!"
John Vander Borght
john@sequent.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: merrifie@cidmac.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael C Merrifield)
Subject: Re: John Daly
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 21:13:18 GMT

In article <79513@hydra.gatech.EDU>, ccastmm@prism.gatech.EDU (Mike Marler) writes:
> In <C0HJFH.14o@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> mftjs@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (T. Jerry Scott) writes:
> 
> >John Daly got his fame in only one year, with only one win, a rags to
> >riches story.  It just happened to him.  It came too fast, and ...
> 
>No question about that.
>  ... Even without a grip on his drinking problem (no pun intended)
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

                      You mean that JD doesn't "Grip it and Rip it"?!

Seriously, the thing that amazed me after he won the PGA was the
media hype that Daly was the next Jack Nicklaus... Many people had
heard of the "Golden Bear" before he even won his first tour event!

But then consider the source!

Mike

    **********************************************************
    * Michael Merrifield     merrifie@cidmac.ecn.purdue.edu  *
    * Purdue  University     C A D L A B -- (317) 49 -45944  *
    **********************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: "william cochrane" <william.cochrane@canrem.com>
Subject: maui vacation
Reply-To: "william cochrane" <william.cochrane@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 8 Jan 93 22:02:00 EST

First lucky you, I was in Maui in 91, and loved it.

I played the Wailea courses, of which there were two at the time.  The
Orange was very challenging (ie tough) while the Blue was easier.  The
LPGA plays the Blue course for the Kemper Open, won last year by Dawn
Coe ( a little Canadian patriotism there).

They were building a new course, a third to be called Gold, but I can't
rate it.

A note about prices:  To play Wailea cost $100 US if not staying in
resort, $50 if you were in resort area. I imagine other resort courses
would be the same.  There was a course (Prince?) south of Wailea, and
they wanted $100 to play as well.

If you are no staying in resort, you may want to play Silversword, East
of main road to Wailea, which looked quite good, but less expensive.

I did not play Kaanapali courses, but they looked quite flat.  Kaanapali
is north of Lahaina, and very commercial

Further North was Kapula, and there two courses looked interesting.
Again, I estimate Kaanapali and Kapula to be $100 a round to play if not
at resort.

For tennis players, Wailea has grass courts, which are rare to find.

Take golf balls etc, there are no discount golf outlets in Maui.

Best Wishes, wish I was there with you.  Hope this helps, and I you ahve
any questions please write & ask.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: jdwood@bb1t.monsanto.com
Subject: Golf info for Sarasota, Please.
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 16:10:34 GMT

I will be vacationing in Sarasota, Florida in late January. Could someone
give me the low-down on public golf courses there?

Thanks a Bunch,

Jay Woodmansee
(jdwood@ccmail.monsanto.com)

Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: mftjs@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (T. Jerry Scott)
Subject: Re: John Daly
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 13:42:53 GMT

In article <N4HY.92Dec31101433@wahoo.UUCP> n4hy@wahoo.UUCP (Bob McGwier) writes:
>
>I would never let him walk on a golf course again.  He has
>a few million dollars in the bank.  Let him take that and live on it and
>not subject those who are his former fans to the disappointment of ever
>having to see the SOB again.

You have to be kidding.  John Daly is absolutely the most popular new player
out there today.  Of course, he has his problems in the "gentlemenly" sport 
of golf.  But he is genuinely exciting to watch, confounding the experts with
his superlong drives and super quick play.

There are lots of beer drinking public course golfers out there who really
like Big John.  They would rather see him win than anyone.  With fame and
the demands it brings comes life adjustments.  I hope John can make them,
so we can watch more of the Grip It and Rip It type golf he plays on TV.

TV golf is boring enough now, with all the 3 foot putts we get to watch,
and the endless stream of no-namers who are beginning to vie for the title
each week.  Sometimes real characters like Larry Laretty on the Seniors
circuit, etc., make watching golf fun.

The other obvious thing here is that his wife did not press charges.  How
can you deprive a person of a huge income when no charges have been filed?

So, as for me, I am hoping Big John gets back soon.  I know the public
wants him to and will forgive him.  Everyone has problems; now at least
John's are out in the open.  If he succeeds, he could really do some good
like Magic can for aids.

=====================================================================
Thomas J. Scott					mftjs@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
From: p38448n@puukko.hut.fi (Timo Saarto)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Speeding Up Play
Date: 11 Jan 93 11:48:15 GMT
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland

In article <2935812999.0.p00168@psilink.com> "James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com> writes:


>>>Last summer we came up with the following solution which takes about 45 minutes
>>>off a round:  drop the "honors" courtesy.  Whoever is ready, hits.  Even on the


Yep. I *started* playing golf this September, which allowed me just enough
time to complete my green card, until the arctic was sacked till summer :-(

But during those few weeks, as I made some  practice rounds in a three-or-four-
some, we played just a bit on the edge ...

...that is, all the balls were picked up and then dropped by the best
hit of the round. It worked well, we could have easily spent 4-5 hours
fooling around  and as we all were on the same level, this was no offense
towards anyone on the course. No, we didn't forge our handicaps this way,
I completed only one full hcp-round with an estimated result :-)

(okiedokie, maybe :-(    :-)^2) 


>If birdies are rare in your group, then it's nice to wait for the person 
>who made one to hit first -- sort of like REAL honors.  But unless 
>there's enough money on the line to matter, or one is playing in a 
>tourney, honors should simply be ignored.  When the tee is open, step up 
>and spank it!  

To add (and me-too)  to previous golf etiquette discussion, I'd say that
*as*long*as*we*are*playing*for*pleasure*, golf rules can be extended to
accommodate common sense for compensation of skill, experience (add your
own here).

--



Timo Saarto           :::      I    THINK      ::: Voice: 90/555554
Ulvilantie 29/1 B 18  :::       I   MUST       ::: EMail: tsaarto@otax
00350 HELSINKI        :::  BE   A   MUSHROOM   :::        p38448n@puukko.hut.fi
Somehow I am always left alone in the dark and being fed with lots of horseshit
From: n4hy@tang.UUCP (Bob McGwier)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Couples
Date: 12 Jan 93 18:27:14 GMT
Organization: IDA Center for Communications Research


While we are on the subject of Couples, I really don't understand this guy.
I don't think his losing his wife or media pressure has a lot to do with
his lack of drive.  I cannot imagine a Palmer or a Nicklaus saying in an
interview that he hopes Davis Love breaks Byron Nelson's single season
win record so that someone else will be on top.  I keep hoping that the
guys with the real drive (like Love, Azinger, Norman, Floyd, etc.) will
really burn it up and leave the `I just want a good check and leave the
press to everyone else' guys in the dirt.

BMc
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: ds2i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Donald Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Tempo, etc
Date: 5 Jan 93 05:50:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.gfGOt8e00UzxA1h24z
Distribution: usa
Organization: Doctoral student, Urban and Public Affairs, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


A minor variation on the wiffle ball on a string:  Use an old tennis
ball on a thin piece of rope(clothesline works well).  The weight of the
tennis ball gives a closer representation of an actual swing and the air
resistance is less of a factor.

RE: Swing hard vs. Swing Easy
Hard or easy are irrelevant  -- the key is to get the clubhead moving
fast.  Swinging hard doesn't necessarily get you increased clubhead
speed.  Only a proper release of the wrists through the ball will get
that speed.  Those clubhead speed indicators downplayed in an earlier
post are actually extremely effective at helping people develop the feel
of increasing their clubhead speed.

Finally, learn to play on a wide open course.  It helps you develop that
powerful swing, by not penalizing you for long but errant shots.  As
pointed out earlier, its much better and easier to develop a strong
swing and then make it more accurate than to develop a tentative swing
and then try to strengthen it.


Don
From: kim@guppy.uucp (Isaac Kim)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Looks like Rome, NY
Date: 11 Jan 1993 07:59:57 GMT
Organization: UC San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: guppy.ucsd.edu

In article <2935742160.4.p00168@psilink.com> "James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com> writes:>>FROM:   Isaac Kim <kim@guppy.uucp>
>>
>>>
>>>leg in a cart.  We finished in 3:15.  I obeyed all the rules, and 
>>>nobody bothered me at all.  It can be done.
>>>
>>
>>I also obey all the rules I can (except for replacing stroke-and-distance
>>with 2 strokes), but unfortunately, I normally play at a heavily-played 
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>provisional.  Treating trees or humongous rough as hazards also is one 
>way to speed play on public courses and still stay within the rules.  
>
>[By that I meant the golf course itself putting out stakes, red paint...not 
>just deciding to play that way.]

Actaully, Torrey Pines did this about 5 (?) years ago.  Most of both Torrey
Pines golf courses are surrounded by deep brush and canyons which
evetually makes it was down to the Pacific.  Well, the boundary into the
canyons used to treated as out-of-bounds.  Somebody had the brains to
switch it to one huge lateral water hazard, and it makes play much
easier.  The 6th hole on the North course in a pretty par 3 which faces 
south and drops down quite a bit.  If you happen to come over it just a
bit, it is really easy to hook it into the brush to the left (usually aided
by west winds from the ocean).  In the old out-of-bounds days, you would 
have to hit a provisional (usually pulling that one as well), and hike down 
the hill a very unhappy golfer.  To add to your misery, you would usually 
not find either ball, and then have to face the long hike back up to the tee.
Now, it's a lateral water hazard.  If you happen to open the shoulders
a tad early, you now just hike on down and drop it one clubs length
from where you think it entered the hazard (which is usually impossible 
to tell since the hazard line in blind from the tee), add a shot, and try to
get up-and-down for the bogey.

I say make all out-of-bounds a lateral water hazard, and golf will be
a much faster and more enjoyable game.

>-jim

Isaac (kim@bull.ucsd.edu)
From: kim@guppy.uucp (Isaac Kim)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Golf Etiquette Part 1/5
Date: 10 Jan 1993 01:50:54 GMT
Organization: UC San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: guppy.ucsd.edu

In article <2935474631.0.p00168@psilink.com> "James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com> writes:>>DATE:   7 Jan 93 02:51:49 GMT
>
>The first (of two) time I broke 70 at Rome CC was about 7 years ago. I played
>with the Italian Contingent as a fifth.  They were all over 60, and
>2 were over 70.  We all carried our bags except one guy with a bad
>leg in a cart.  We finished in 3:15.  I obeyed all the rules, and 
>nobody bothered me at all.  It can be done.
>

I also obey all the rules I can (except for replacing stroke-and-distance
with 2 strokes), but unfortunately, I normally play at a heavily-played 
muni on the weekends.  That 3:15 time is tough to do at Torrey on the 
weekends, unless you are the one of the first five groups out.

>-jim

Isaac (kim@bull.ucsd.edu)
From: bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: John Daly
Date: 10 Jan 1993 20:44:17 GMT
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, Arizona
NNTP-Posting-Host: stealth.intel.com

In article <cmhaar-090193161155@mac2867-2.chem.nwu.edu> cmhaar@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Chris Haar) writes:
>In article <1ii9s9INNlqf@chnews.intel.com>, bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) wrote:
>> In article <726414657@potomac.cs.duke.edu> jdd@duke.cs.duke.edu (John Dengler) writes:
>> His "personality" is independent of his chemical disturbance.
>> He's just a jerk.
>
>No, it isn't.  No he's not.  Chemical dependence is intimately entwined
>with a person's personality.

So he's been a drunk his whole life.  Probably.  Nice of
his family to let him get famous before he got help.
(Okay, so drivel on at me about codependence and whatnot
like my life has been free of such things.  Come on.
You're having a grand time being presumptious, why stop
now?)  Not all addicts are assholes and not all assholes
are addicts and while the addiction may color the
personality it can do so in either direction.

Daly's a jerk.  His family's a jerk.  You're a jerk.  (I'm
a jerk, but not just now.  Now I'm a pop-psychoanalyst.
Welcome to the net.)

>The addiction is a manifestation of some internal stress
>that isn't being or can't be dealt with in a constructive
>way.  And how much stress is there in fame?  In overnight
>fame?

Tons, for the clueless and those predisposed to despise it
or hide from it.  Perhaps he never should have sought it.

>I am truly amazed at the lack of sensitivity and understanding in your
>remark that "the money just made it easier for him to blame his problems on
>goblins and retreat to the seclusion of his addictions."  The number one
>rule of addiction is denial: hide behind drugs, blame anyone and everyone
>(but yourself and the drug) for your problems.

Sounds like exactly what I said.  (Note to the sentient:
the next sentence is highly patronizing; just go past it.
Here it is:  substitute, "anyone and everyone (but yourself
and the drug)," for, "goblins"; and, "hide behind drugs,"
for, "retreat to the seclusion of his addictions."  There.
That hurt a bit, didn't it?)

>You are confusing the symptoms with the cause, and making (rather harsh)
>judgements based on this sophistic thought process.  I find this callous,
>irresponsible, and ignorant.

The symptoms are the cause, and the cause is the symptoms;
you don't know much about positive feedback in a systems
context, do you?

>Good luck, John.

Amen.  Even jerks deserve a cure.

>> You're just a moron with a keyboard, from all we can tell.
>
>People in glass houses...

Shouldn't practice with their lob-wedge.

				--Blair
				  "Uh-oh...I just remembered how
				   much of the course-side wall
				   of my house is windows..."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: martin@chiton.ucsd.edu (Martin Olivera)
Subject: Re: Tournamt. of Champs. - Start of '93 PGA season
Organization: Scripps Inst. of Oceanography - MPL
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:43:04 GMT

In article <1993Jan08.084324.12490@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> peak@abacus.Columbia.NCR.COM (Bob Peak) writes:
>In article <1993Jan7.181015.26714@chiton.ucsd.edu> martin@chiton.ucsd.edu (Martin Olivera) writes:
>>On Tuesday I went to watch the pro's practice at La Costa. As you probably
>>know, this year both the Senior and regular tours will play this tournament
>>from the same set of tees to accomodate Ray Floyd's "double-dipping". 
>
>One quick question ... Does anyone know what happens if Raymond wins?
>Both checks? Does he have to choose one over the other?
>I'm sure this is a "problem" he would love to have!

He gets double pay: a check for his performance in the regular tour portion of
the tournament, and another for his performance in the Senior tour portion.
Since he's playing two tournaments in one ("double-dipping") they had to set
the tees the same for both tours.

UPDATE: There's a risk of the tournament being cancelled. If it rains like
it did yesterday chances are it will be. It's been showering on and off.
They're trying to get in 36 holes today. For that, the first groups are
scheduled to tee-off at 7.15 am and are expected to tee-off again at about 11.30
am for the second 18. I saw pictures of the course: it's a lake of the size of
a golf course, with a few islands. Hope the weather improves, I was thinking of
stopping by sometime during the weekend.

Martin
-- 
------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: brandt@oclc.org (Dave S. Brandt)
Subject: Re: Fred Couples
Organization: OCLC Online Computer Library Center, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:28:41 GMT

 Lets try this again. I don't like Fred Couples as much as I used to. This past year he has not wanted to deal with the media do to all his sucess. My question to everyone is, doesn't the media come with all the fame and pockets full of money?  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: cookinga@vnet.ibm.com (Andy Cookingham)
Subject: Myrtle Beach
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 16:27:10 GMT
Reply-To: cookinga@vnet.ibm.com (Andy Cookingham)
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

I am planning on spending an extended weekend in Myrtle Beach in the
begining of March. 
I think the plan right now is to try the Cherokee. Does anyone have any
input on this
place, or any other suggestions.

e-mail the responses, or post.


Andy Cookingham cookinga@vnet.ibm.com
From: bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Walter Hagen (Was RE: John Daly)
Date: 10 Jan 1993 20:52:59 GMT
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, Arizona
NNTP-Posting-Host: stealth.intel.com

In article <1io154INNdlk@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> mftjs@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (T. Jerry Scott) writes:
>Of course, nobody in this group has mentioned Thunder Tommy Bolt, who
>was renown for his totally bad temper, but great shots, similar to
>what John Daly is known for today.

But then, nobody tried to turn Bolt into the Great Drunk
Hope of Golf.

>As for John Daly, I hope he recovers from his problem.  If not, then
>like many a drunk, we will all just lament what might have been.

I think, now that you mention Tom Bolt, that Daly is no
different, and if he wasn't being lauded by *his* fans
as a "great thing for golf" we wouldn't be able to form
the attitude that he should be a better person.

That is, I think it's Daly's sycophants (including those
suckerfish of fame, the sports media) who have made Daly's
image into something it can never be, and his personal
troubles then become the downfall of a heroically painted
figure.

If they'd just said, "he's a jerk, but he's a talented
jerk," instead of, "he's not a jerk, he's a hero," then
perhaps this latest series of incidents would be something
to smile wistfully about rather than to decry.

				--Blair
				  "A tube for a boob,
				   a boob for a tube,
				   and twenty-five rubes
				   for a tube-lubed boob."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: pazur@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (scott.m.pazur)
Subject: Re: Duck NC courses
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:27:09 GMT

>>I'll be spending a week near Duck, North Carolina in June and would like
>>to know of any golf courses within 30 minutes drive.

There aren't a whole lot that I know of, but the three that are closest are
Duck Woods Country Club (I think that's the name), Sea Trail, and Nags Head.

Duck C.C. is a private course that opens up to the public in the off-season.
I played there in November and it was nothing special, no better than the 
public courses I'm used to, challenge-wise or appearance-wise.  Just an
ordinary course.

Sea Trail I've played a lot, it's right next to our condo (which overlooks
the 4th tee).  Not a bad course, a scottish layout, pretty nice.  One
annoying thing about it is that once you get off the tee, yardage markers
are few and far between.  There's not a whole lot of water, but you'll 
probably find some at least once.  Also a couple of real pretty par three's.
I'd grade it at a B.

Nags Head is the place to play.  It's the most expensive of these three, but 
worth it at least once to see.  I finally played here in November after not
wanting to spend the bucks in the past, and I rank it as one of the top three
course I've ever played (Marsh Harbour and Oyster Bay in/near Myrtle Beach  
being the other two).  It's extremely hard, requiring shot-making precision
on almost every hole - not a lot of room to mess up here.  A lot of water, and
four or so holes that run right along the Sound are simply gorgeous.  You even
get a chance to pick off a car or two on the highway with a marginally bad shot
on a couple holes.  Bring a few extra bucks with you and play here, you won't  
be sorry.   

There is also a new course opening up a few miles back over the bridge on the
mainland.  They had nine holes open in November and were begging us to play.
The other nine should be ready by this summer, but I can't remember the name
of the place.  You'll see it on your way in.  

Have fun!