From: gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman)
Subject: Re: Electric Vehicle
Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman)
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:11:42 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.192918.1@vax.sonoma.edu> oberland@vax.sonoma.edu writes:
>
>I drive 7-8000 miles a year. IF you subtract the 4 round-trips to LA
>(420 miles each way, you arrive at a conservative figure of 5K a year.)
>(I wouls rent or fly to LA)- I would also need no more than 200mile range,
>and even then, a trip to LA would not be out of the question(would take 
>1.5 days instead of 1 day)
>
>At 5K a year, I am going to need replacement of those Ni-H in lessee...
>about 8-10 YEARS!  Looks like I don't need to worry about replacement.

The battery life isn't measured in miles, it's measured in charge/discharge
cycles. Good NiCads or NiMH batteries are good for between 200-500 charge
discharge cycles if they aren't abused by overcharging or excess current
draws or by being discharged excessively. Now NiCads have a self-discharge
rate of about 10% per week, NiMH is similar, so it's a matter of use it
or lose it. 5k miles a year is a daily average of 13.7 miles or about 14%
of the battery capacity. You don't want to discharge the battery to less
than 20% capacity to preserve it's life. Therefore you have to recharge
every 6 days. Now 200*6 is 1200 days or 3.25 years. Or looking at it
another way, the batteries will last about 16,250 miles between replacements.

>PERIOD.  So, my only cost would be the up-front cost.  EVEN if electricity
>cost DOUBLES and gas goes to 2.00 a gallon(it is 1.35 right now), I figured
>the following out:
>6-10K more for the EV(why, I don't know, as the thing is simpler, and has less
>materials-I figure the batteries cost 20K)-this is WAYYYY to high, considering
>that such a vehicle would be available in 3-4 years, and Hi-H prices will be
>MUCCCCH less by then.

Speculation. You're still postulating a $30,000 car with the performance
of a $6,995 Escort. The money you save buying the cheaper car will more
than pay for any maintenance or gasoline you might consume over it's
lifetime. Those $20,000 batteries would buy 14,815 gallons of gas that
would carry a 40 MPG Escort 592,600 miles. Yet you'll have to replace
the batteries every 16,250 miles.

>200miles in avg commuter car would take 5 gallons of gas.  multiply times 
>250 for 50K miles*2/gallon=2500 dollars for gas.  Recharging my EV would
>not cost anywhere NEAR 10 dollars for 200 miles.
>I figure a conservative 1000-1500 dollars less to run and operate for 50K
>miles.
>figure in oil changes, clutch job, muffler,tuneups, and simmilar, and
>the costs just about even out(8-10years maint). If there is a 2-4K difference,
>I would gladly pay it up front, as I can finance it over 10 years if need 
>be(along with the car)
>My monthly costs and repair costs would be much less with an EV

My pickup just rolled over 100,000 miles the other day. I spend about
$80 a year on consumables such as air and oil filters, oil, and plugs.
20,000 miles ago I spent $23 for new brake pads. And last month I
spent $200 on a new catalytic converter, my first major expense. So I've 
spent $623 on maintenance in the last 5 years. That's less than six month's 
*interest* on a set of $20,000 batteries.

>It is a LOT easier to figure in 4-6K replacement cost 6-10 yrs. down the line,
>than it is to keep paying 1-2K a year for "routine maintenence", at times when
>you CAN'T budget it.  AS for the comment about investing the extra money,
>GET REAL.  Almost everyone finances their car, so having the extra money lying
>around to invest is just not going to happen.  Also, that money IF it were
>invested would most likely go for other things("..well, gee.. the car hasn't
>had any problems so far, and a new Computer would be nice...).  
>SHOW me 10 people who put aside 6-10k when they buy a car to pay for repairs
>and I will believe you.

Just put aside $10 a month when you make your car payment. Let it draw
interest. It's not a big deal. Making payments on a $30,000 car *is* a
big deal. The interest *alone* amounts to $150 a *month*. If you can
afford that, you can afford to set aside $10 a month for maintenance
expenses. I don't know anyone who budgets 6-10k for repairs. Hell I
don't know many people who would pay that much for a commuter car.
A 3 year old Pontiac 6000 goes for about $3,000 around here and is 
usually good for another 3-4 years before it needs major repair.
Then you dump it and buy another.

Gary