HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Squeaky Wheels
Date: 21 Nov 92 09:32:32 GMT
Organization: The Great Beast 666

rr@chem.ucsd.edu (Roxanne Rohmann) writes:
>ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
> > How do you affect things? Hmm. I guess write in and TELL them; ...
>...
>The art of letting "the powers that be" know what is on one's mind
>in order to affect the actions of "the powers that be" seems to
>be dwindling rapidly.  Yes, we have organized boycotts and writing
>campaigns and lobbyists galore, but the individual citizen seems
>to have muted him/herself and has sunk into apathy, convinced 
>that s/he can do nothing to affect the world around him/her.
>I find this totally appalling, and suspect that much of the ills
>of the culture in which we live can be attributed to this apathy.
>
>   ---Roxanne

Right. If you let THEM run things, you get what THEY want to give you.
But YOU are paying for it.

The Right said, Gee, if we get obnoxious and active, we can control other
people. So I'll suggest if the 'rest of us' get obnoxious and active, we
can get control of our Own lives back, and even more easily.
From: ken@nate.UUCP (Ken Gacioch)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Need information about Mensa in India
Keywords: membership, application, India
Date: 23 Nov 92 15:10:40 GMT
Reply-To: nate!ken@cs.rit.edu
Organization: HealthChex, Inc.

In article <1992Nov21.002552.20676@lsil.com> bhatia@lsil.com writes:
[intro deleted]
>1. Can I take the membership tests in India? If not, what are the centers in
>     the US?

I found no mention of an Indian Mensa in the International Mensa Directory
in the (US) Mensa Bulletin.  I assume that none has yet been organized. 
After you become a member of Mensa Internationnal [sic], establishing one
would be a very useful second step.   8 )


>2. Would it be useful to join Mensa if I live in India most of the time? (I may be

Sure, why not? Assuming, that is, that it is useful to join Mensa at all.
It certainly is, for me.  Others may (and almost certainly will (just watch))
disagree.
   Anyone can opt to be a direct International Member.
You might even consider joining American, or some other, Mensa.  I don't
recall seeing anything about citizenship requirements for membership, but
it's very possible that I am simply uninformed.  Anyone have the definitive
poop on citizenship stuff?

>    coming to the US on business visits (~2months) once a year on average)

Great.  As an international member, you can go to local, regional,
& national events when you're stateside.  Political boundaries are handy for
learning geography, but are IMHO otherwise just a bureaucratic annoyance.

>3. What is the annual membership fee?

I dunno.  The executive director is:     Ed Vincent
                                         15 The Ivories
                                         6-8 Northampton St.
                                         London, N1 2HY, UK
                                         (44) 71 226-6891
                                         FAX: (44) 71 226-7059

Ken Gacioch
Proctor Coordinator
Rochester (NY) Area Mensa
nate!ken@cs.rit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Subject: Re: hello
Originator: cjdcosta@zepplin.ece.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 03:03:48 GMT


Brian McBean effuses:
>In article <corey.0fb6@amiganet.chi.il.us>, corey@amiganet.chi.il.us (Corey
>Sweeney) writes:
> > Would someone like to tell me what mensa does?
>
>They test to see if you do well on iq tests.  If you do, then you are
>eligible to become a member!  What do members do?  On this newsgroup,
>they tend to solve puzzles and argue with Scott Tai.  Neat, huh?
>
>Brian McBean  -  McBeanB@BrandonU.Ca

How cute! Brian sounds impressed. Puzzles really aren't all that difficult,
Brian, with luck maybe you'll solve one too, someday.

As for arguing with Scott Tai, he isn't all that fearsome. Chat him up
sometime. If things don't go well, you can always fetch daddy like you did 
before.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: The Great Beast Eats Tai For Breakfast
Organization: The Great Beast 666 - in his Service Capacity
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 11:10:02 GMT

scott@bogus.net.address (Scott Tai) writes:
>
>mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
>: Well, we can all relax now.  I've found out the real name of the person who
>: posts under the aliases of Scott Andrew Tai and other names.
>: 
>: His real name is Richard Cranium.
>
>How odious you are!  It is easy enough for you to insult me, isn't it?
>
>It's my opinion Mike Steiner is simply a fool.  Does that not explain
>everything?  Before, when I was told to consider him clever, I kept looking
>for his ability and thought I must be too stupid myself to see his 
>cleverness; but directly I said to myself, he's a fool - it all became
>quite clear.  I'd no alternative.  One of us had to be a fool.  And, well,
>you know one can't say that of oneself...
>
>--
>Scott Tai

Little one has NOT TAKEN his lessons.

; It's my opinion Mike Steiner is simply a fool.  Does that not explain
; everything?  Before, when I was told to consider him clever, I kept looking
; for his ability and thought I must be too stupid myself to see his 
; cleverness; but directly I said to myself, he's a fool - it all became
; quite clear.  I'd no alternative.  One of us had to be a fool.  And, well,
; you know one can't say that of oneself...

I can say that of myself and I do, and it has been my ENTRY into KNOWINGNESS.
You SHALLOW people - ah, but you, Tai, my student - no, no. You-all have
learned NOTHING. {Ignore him, he's insane . . .} - NO. You-all have learned
NOTHING. TAI - Tai is dead meat here, *dead meat*.

; Mike Steiner'd seemed rational and credible. I was misled. He, however,
; still does *not* know this.

Sums it up. You're still TOO VERBOSE, and it's an addiction you can't kick;
you DON'T KNOW HOW, yet.

I tell Tai to leave Steiner alone. Does he take my advice? NO. And where do
we find him? STILL FLAMING STEINER, AND DOING BADLY - in a STALE fashion -
I KNEW, and Tai ignored my advice. And Tai is as STALE as he used to be.

WHAT - ah, WHAT BAD BOYS are we, to persist in STUPID & FRUITLESS PURSUITS??
HA!!

NOTHING. They know NOTHING.

Also sprach . . .
-ecsd
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: grad students killing professors
Date: 21 Nov 92 09:26:42 GMT
Organization: The Great Beast 666

David O Hunt <bluelobster+@CMU.EDU> writes:
>On 19-Nov-92 in Re: grad students killing p..
>user Eric C. S. Dynamic@tfs.c writes:
>>By the time I left RPI, I'd roomed with a guy who was in exactly this bind;
>>but it'd only been 4 years for him.
>
>I expect that my total sojourn in grad school will be 4-5 years.

This was 4 years trying to do the dissertation, all else complete.

>>Figure also - my Psychology Ph.D. candidate friend described how advisors
>>routinely listed themselves as first author in papers they had *nothing* to do
>>with. This must be thoroughly widespread - so - how can so much corruption
>>persist unchecked?
>
>I have no problem with putting my advisor's name first - he is, after all,
>the _principal investigator_, and is funding me.  If, however, he wanted
>SOLE credit, then I'd have a serious beef.

I guess my point is, first author, yet not one word contributed?
So, if my father is Fred Ferd, and I write a book, I credit it
"Fred Ferd & Eric Dynamic"?? You put these people in the Credits,
not on the front page. Thanks to my father, Fred Ferd, for enabling me . . .

Thanks to my advisor, Fred Ferd - who gets the top credit for writing my
paper, although it was all my work. Do we find ME in the registry of articles?
Or my advisor?

"The way it is" is not a very convincing argument for the way it is.
We might have hoped that these high and mighty professors had a better grasp
on their egos and on personal ethics, to claim as theirs, work they didn't do.
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: A theory of flames
Date: 17 Nov 92 00:03:00 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

After being on several nets for several years, I have come to the
conclusion that the flame level on any given newsgroup, forum, echo, or
whatever you wish to call it, is a constant once the forum matures.

It doesn't matter whether two people are going at it hammer and tong with
everyone else not participating, or whether there are more people involved,
each with a lower flame level than if there were only two people at it.

Comments anyone?

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Now that I have a reader that can do .sigs, I can't think of a witty |
|one to put here, so I won't.  All normal disclaimers apply.          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: sonic@bearpit.cray.com (Curtis Swanson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: And again, "Voting Analysis"
Date: 19 Nov 92 00:00:13 GMT
Reply-To: sonic@bearpit.cray.com (Curtis Swanson)
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.

edp@math.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil) writes:

>in the amount of x% * y.  Therefore, the non-voting is a cause of the
                                                       ^^^^^^^
Note:  "a cause" does not equal "the cause."

>organization gaining the information.  Further, the objectors in group Y
>did nothing other than not-vote.  Therefore, not-voting and not-voting
>alone are the sole cause of the organization gaining information about
>the objecting non-voters in group Y.

Wrong.  See below.

>You can claim that the non-voters in group X did something else to
>communicate, but that is not true of those in group Y, which is a much,
>much larger group than X.  Millions of people contributed to the
>information gained by the organization and they did so solely by not
>voting.

Wrong again.  The results of the sampling of group X were applied to group
Y.  WITHOUT THE SAMPLE OF GROUP X (boy, I wish I could underline or 
italicize), nothing is learned about group Y, other than "they did not 
vote."  In and of itself, not-voting does nothing (except give some people
a warm, fuzzy feeling, I suppose) to change anything.

***  Curt Swanson  ***  sonic@romulus.cray.com  ***  IOTTMCO  *********
Bad opening line #106:
     "Say, you own the 'Buns of steel' video, don't you?"
***  Warning: This signature expires on 30-NOV-92!  *******************
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: A theory of flames
From: emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp)
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:26:23 -0600

In article <mike_steiner-161192160004@192.35.50.131>  writes:
>After being on several nets for several years, I have come to the
>conclusion that the flame level on any given newsgroup, forum, echo, or
>whatever you wish to call it, is a constant once the forum matures.
>
>It doesn't matter whether two people are going at it hammer and tong with
>everyone else not participating, or whether there are more people involved,
>each with a lower flame level than if there were only two people at it.

People feel that a certain topic is "x" serious, on the average, and work to
keep discussion in perspective? Then "x" would vary by topic.. Does this go
along with your observations?
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: t: Re: IQ Test Creation Question
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 16:37:55 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.000133.15326@ncsu.edu> scott@bogus.net.address (Scott Tai) writes:
>
>gg@iok.unit.no (Gus Gassmann) writes:
>: ken@nate.UUCP (Ken Gacioch) writes:
>: |>    Scores in standardized tests aren't by any means supposed to represent
>: |> absolute measures of anything, but only indicate ones success in correctly 
>: |> answering the questions on that one test, compared to everyone who took it
>: |> while it was being normed.
>: 
>: Yes, but that only begs a larger question: How the hell do you calibrate
>: such a test? If you administer this test to "the most intelligent person"
>: presumably this person will score higher on this test than anyone else did.
>: (At least that's what you want---Scott Tai has been conspicuously absent
>: from this discussion!) 
>
>Intelligence has several facets, some of which are not measured by 
>intelligence tests.  Achievement, not test score, is a better measure
>of ability.

What is the result obtained from taking an achievement test?  What
good is a predictive test that consists of life achievement?

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: Voting Analysis
Organization: The Great Beast 666
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 10:20:32 GMT

edp@math.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil) writes:
>eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager) writes:
>> Look closely.  It is neither the people in the sample (your group X) nor
>> the people not sampled (your group Y) that did anything.  The information
>> was generated by the sampling organization.
>
>Look closely.  Would the organization have obtained the information had
>the members of group Y not refrained from voting?  Did the members of
>group Y do anything other than not vote that caused the organization to
>obtain the information?  The answer is no in both cases.  Remember that
>the issue here is what should the decision of the subject be -- the
>subject is a person deciding whether or not to vote.  They have no
>control over whomever may be sampling people or any expectation of being
>sampled.  The subject has the choice of voting or not voting.  By not
>voting, they can contribute to the information which you seem to have
>agreed an organization can collect.  So, since it is a goal of the
>subject to have such information sent, it is an intelligent choice for
>the subject not to vote.

I don't have full context on this. But I'll simply say:

One group answers a questionnaire containing 20 questions, each with a choice
of four answers. The other group marks 'X' on that questionnaire, indicating
"no vote". True, "no vote" is information. What kind of information?

Revise the example, that the 'other' group does NOTHING - no mark, no count.
I can create an infinite number of people into that group, and obtain no more
information than when I started out - e.g. one or a million contributing,
and the information content doesn't vary, intuitively suggests that the
contribution of any one of those "no vote" people, is ZERO. The ONLY
information in this case, is the size of the "no vote" group. Relative to
voting, not much information there to guide our policy makers, is there?
Except that that number of people is disenfranchised, by choice or otherwise.
All the policy makers can do, is try to get people to vote, to get feedback
that means something. The void is everywhere empty - more of it is just as
empty.
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: t: Re: IQ Test Creation Question
Date: 15 Nov 92 16:27:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewse.1992Nov15.162709.7292
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Nov14.235321.15143@ncsu.edu> scott@bogus.net.address (Scott Tai) writes:
>
>hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
>: clong@utopia.rutgers.edu (Chris Long) writes:
>: }Kjeld Hvatum writes:
>: }
>: }> That was the LAIT (Langdon Adult Intelligence Test), which is still
>: }> being used for admission to various high-IQ societies (not including
>: }> Intertel and Mensa).
>: }
>: }Why don't they accept either the LAIT or the other similar tests
>: }(Mega, Titan)?  Is the floor too high, or just snobbery?
>: 
>: Mensa's charter specifies "... generally recognized tests of intelligence
>: ...", which the LAIT, Mega and Titan are not.
>
>And some of the more commonly used tests accepted for Mensa qualification
>are not intelligence tests at all.

Actually, if we agree that intelligence has not been defined, none of them
are.  On the other hand, if we agree that some are "aptititude" or "achievement"
tests, and some of them are officially labeled as such, we may define 
intelligence as the achievement resulting from it, or "actualized"
potential, which also has been previously argued.  Me, I don't care.
But I'm curious as to why anyone would care about whether a group like
Mensa uses these things unless they cared about every group in the world
that has its share of geeks.  I'd say that if you wanted to put your effort
toward a goal with more bang for the buck, start with Congress.

GMS
From: nick+@pitt.edu (Nick C De Mello)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: t: Re: t: social rejection
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:33:36 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Nov17.031902.14345@ncsu.edu> scott@bogus.net.address (Scott Tai) writes:
>
>mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
>: scott@bogus.net.address (The Great Brain) wrote:
>: > mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
>: > : scott@bogus.network.address (Scott Tai) wrote:
>: > : > mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:

 
Request:  Could you guys trim your articles a little more? When it's piled
          six levels deep I have a great deal of trouble making any 
          sense of it...

-- 
   _/   _/  _/  _/_/_/   _/   _/  Sea Shells to C shls,  Waikiki to
  _/_/ _/  _/  _/   _/  _/_/_/     the Internet, a wave, is a wave...
 _/ _/_/  _/  _/       _/ _/                   
_/   _/  _/   _/_/_/  _/   _/                       Nick+@pitt.edu
From: jwp@chem.ucsd.edu (John Pierce)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Net Access
Date: 17 Nov 92 07:52:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: network.1ea8bvINN6k
Organization: Chemistry Dept, UC San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: chedccf0.ucsd.edu

jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley) writes:
 > 
 > .... I'm constantly reminded by many from my local chapter that something
 > like 90% or more DO NOT have access to e-mail or Internet in any way ....

I think that net access is really much less of a problem than people try
to make of it.  In less than six months members in San Diego should have free
access to normal Internet mail and Usenet news.  We (principally Lynn Dobbs)
are working on putting up a Waffle-based BBS which is supposed to understand
how to properly handle both mail and news.   Arrangements are being made for
the news feed and the name service necessary to become "sdmensa.org".  We may
have a few advantages in doing this that most people don't, but not many.

It's not hard to set up a BBS that allows people access to both mail and
news; it's done nearly daily around the country.  For a local group to have
access only requires some member or group of members willing to donate some
time and money, and not a whole lot of either.  For that matter, any fair
sized local group could do it as a group:  get local members to contribute
five or ten bucks, find somebody competent and willing to run it, and go to
it.  A good bit of money could be raised from selling video tapes of meetings
where the local board tries to select a sysop.  At least around most larger
cities, finding an Internet gateway shouldn't be terribly difficult.  What
that takes is people who care enough to look, have the guts to ask, and who
aren't so obnoxious that they offend the non-Mensans they may have to deal
with in the process (I'm aware of the scarcity of that resource).

-- John W Pierce, Chemistry, UC San Diego
   jpierce@ucsd.edu
   LocSec, San Diego Mensa
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Keeping Your Mensa Membership A Secret
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:05:37 GMT

In article <Nov.23.05.33.11.1992.25612@remus.rutgers.edu> clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long) writes:
>In article <1992Nov20.034139.11789@ttinews.tti.com>, The Polymath writes:
>
>> Once it came up in a graduate seminar when I was in school.  My fellow
>> students were very impressed.  I explained that everyone in the room
>> qualified for membership (or they wouldn't be there), so I didn't see it
>> as anything to brag about in their company.
>
>Based on the fact that they were impressed, I suspect that in fact
>they wouldn't qualify since they weren't smart enough to know that
>they shouldn't be impressed.
>
>I've never had anyone actually be impressed by my membership in anything,
>even though I've recently qualified for Prometheus; must be the people
>I hang out with.
>-- 
>Chris Long, 265 Old York Rd., Bridgewater, NJ  08807-2618

It may be that they are threatened and envious and are secretly
plotting your death.

Sure, call me a crackpot.  They all did.  But that was then.

GM("A Friend")S


Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Subject: Re: t: Re: IQ Test Creation Question
Originator: cjdcosta@zepplin.ece.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 04:28:35 GMT


scott@bogus.net.address writes-
>bbs-phaedrus@jwt.UUCP (larry wink) writes:
>: I question your basic analogy.  An operational definition of a bulls-eye 
>: exists, so anyone can determine if a given competitor achieved the objective. 
>: There is no such operational definition of intelligence.
>:
>: Having been educated in the physical sciences (physics, if it matters), I have
>: always found it amusing that those in the social sciences have no concept of 
>: operational definitions.  The common thread in this newsgroup appears to 
>: mirror the social sciences perfectly.  Everyone talks about intelligence, 
>: admits they can't even produce a good conceptual definition, and then proceeds
>: to argue the merits of different testing techniques.  Take a hint - when 
>: intelligent is properly defined, the definition will naturally include the 
>: method by which intelligence can be measured.  Standardized IQ tests measure 
>: standardized IQs (the social science's circle jerk) and have very little to do
>: with measuring intelligence (and yes, I am a Mensan and have rarely scored 
>: less than 4 sigma on these standardized pieces of trash).
>
>At last--a Mensa member I can agree with.  Very, very glad to meet you.

Of course he's glad. He's hung around for a year waiting for someone who had
a problem with standardised testing. The law of averages would be hard pressed 
to deny him that lifelong craving, but it's sure tried it's best to until now. 
Well, let him enjoy his first real support while Mr. Wink plays along which I 
doubt will be for long. Larry, you poor thing, you don't know what you've got 
yourself into. You may have just earned yourself your first newsgroupie.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: zwanenbu@nlzcl.decnet.philips.nl (Godwin Zwanenburg)
Subject: Re: Need information about Mensa in India
Organization: Centre for Manufacturing Technology
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 22:01:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.002552.20676@lsil.com>, bhatia@lsil.com (Ajoy Bhatia) writes:
> Hi all,
> 
> I live in India and am in the US for about 2 months on a business visit. I would
> like to know more about Mensa activities in India.

According to the statistics list there should be about 200 members in India.
But I have never heard about any activity.
I have seen one magazine of Mensa in India, about 2 years ago.

The person who will know more about is can be reached at the International
Office of Mensa:
Mensa International
15 The Ivories, 6-8 Northampton Street
Islington, London N1 2HY
UK


> 3. What is the annual membership fee?
> 
In the US $45,-

> Thanks,
> Ajoy
From: nick+@pitt.edu (Nick C De Mello)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Grad Students
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:20:56 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1ef7arINNgo7@network.ucsd.edu> rr@chem.ucsd.edu (Roxanne Rohmann) writes:
>> wiggins@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu (Don Wiggins) writes:
> > Is it me, or does there seem to be an unhealthy level of interest on this
> > board about grad students killing their professors??
>
>Unhealthy?

    For who?  The professors?

                                   
-- 
   _/   _/  _/  _/_/_/   _/   _/  Sea Shells to C shells,  Waikiki to
  _/_/ _/  _/  _/   _/  _/_/_/     the Internet, a wave, is a wave...
 _/ _/_/  _/  _/       _/ _/                     
_/   _/  _/   _/_/_/  _/   _/  CompSrv: 71232,766 * I-Net: Nick+@pitt.edu