From: russ@bbxrbk (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: alt.peeves
Subject: Re: More Gun Control
Date: 21 Jan 93 01:54:39 GMT
Organization: russ at home in Albuquerque New Mexico

In article <1993Jan20.171048.15553@dazixco.ingr.com> avdh@dazixco.ingr.com writes:
>Sorry Dave, but I don't think "safety courses" are real high on the priority
>list of drug dealers and drug users.  Last I heard, a lot of them owned guns.
>There are also a hell of a lot of fucked up people who own guns legally.

I daresay that very few of the "drug dealers and drug users" that are
avoiding these unnamed "safety courses" went into a gun shop, filled
out the "this isn't a registration" federal BATF form 4473 yellow
sheet and purchased a gun (after jumping through the additional state
hoops and waiting the requisite number of local "waiting days").  I
suspect that they bought it from a street corner dealer who just
didn't bother to follow the legalities...

>Peeve:  All these arguments about gun control are academic wanking.  How many
>of you on either side of the fence have actually taken an involuntary look at
>the working end of a firearm?  I have, and trust me, it gives you strong
>opinions about the ease of obtaining a gun (hint - it's too fucking easy).

>                          ... We called the police, and found out he was a
>part time security guard, the gun was owned legally, but he did not have a
>concealed weapon permit.

So, you filed a complaint including the "brandishment" and "reckless
endangerment" complaints and got the complaint recorded.  Most places
that'd get him charged with something that would likely remove his
right to carry, or at least make him think about doing such stoopid
things again in the future, right?

>I think guns should continue to be available.  It's time, however, to realize
>that there are responsibilities which goes along with the "right" to own a
>gun.  To own a car, you must register it.  To sell it, you must record the
>transaction.  To operate it, you must prove you know how (albeit on a
>rudimentary level here in the US).  If you demonstrate that you can't operate
>it in a safe and sane manner, your "right" to drive is taken away.

None of the last 4 statements are true in any state in the US.  You do
not have to register a car to own it.  You don't have to record a
transfer of a car.  I don't have to prove that I can drive to buy or
to own a car.  I don't have to prove that I can drive else lose my car.

>                                                                    There is
>no sane reason why this should not be true of guns.  If you want to buy a gun,
>you should have to demonstrate you know how to use it, that you're not a
>danger to society (e.g. convicted felon, history of mental illness), and that
>you have a safe place to keep it.  This should apply to private sales as well
>as dealer sales, which would close a huge loophole.  If you own a gun, you
>should be required to demonstrate that you know where it is.  If your gun is
>stolen, then you damn well better be able to prove that you took reasonable
>precautions (leaving it under the

I can understand and sympathize with the feelings above, but feel that
you're placing effort in a place that won't have much return.  The
majority of pain and suffering cause by firearms is done
*deliberately*, and virtually none of the procedures are likely to be
followed by someone already committing or planning to commit a crime. 
In short: criminals don't follow the law, not in firearms purchasing,
not in care and concern in storage and not in demonstrated safety.  You
can pass laws (and California law pretty much covers all of the above
with the minor exception of "proving safe storage") but I suspect
that you won't see much change in accidental death.  

I'm making the assumption that that's what you intend to change as
it's about the only thing that you have a chance of affecting.  If you
look at the numbers you'll see that spending the same amount of effort
on swimming pool safety or encouraging seatbelt usage would have a
"life saved/dollar spent" return well over 10x that of the accidental
firearms death rate.

I'm going to try and bow out of this thread - I stood by long enough
and watched, and only came in when the postings became more full of
emotional anti-gun stuff that I felt needed non-emotional refutation. 
I used to feel that way (the "guns are evil and should be banned or
strictly controlled" feelings) but now feel that there's nothing
intrinsically evil about firearms, at least no more than other tools.
A tool is put to the purpose that the user puts it and contains no
secret "use me this way" compounds.  As a safe and responsible
firearms owner (much as 50 million of so in the USA) my firearms are
as much danger to you as my baseball bat.  I despise the way firearms
owners are labeled by the popular press - much as most people would
feel if they were accused of drunken driving that their car-owning 
compatriots seem so fond of.

ObPeeve: assholes that drive with one foot on the accelerator and one
on the brake.  Their brake lights are always on, and serve as no
indication of whether or not they're accelerating (or at least
maintaining their speed) or decelerating.  I think that these drivers
should be hauled out and keelhauled fore-and-aft on their goddamned
cars while driving on a cobblestone street.

-- 
Russ Kepler, posting from home   russ@bbx.basis.com, bbxrbk!russ@bbx.basis.com
"It's better to be quotable than to be honest" - Tom Stoppard
Newsgroups: alt.peeves