HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Tactile Kinetic (Was RE: Shields)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 14:42:34 GMT

JBrandt@AAA.UOregon.EDU (Pegasus) writes:

>(Posted by Jay Brandt for his Wife)

>If as Colin states in his posting((Colin Low) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992
>13:18:41 
>GMT, Message-ID: <83950131@otter.hpl.hp.com>) R...Society for Psychical 
>Research did experiments on this about 100 years ago,...S R... about 10% of
>individuals have almost no visualisation ability, and about 10% can 
>visualise with visual clarity...S

>  The reasons for asking so many questions is that If the test population 
>was strictly all Eurpoean Caucasians then you could make the suposition 
>that the ability to RseeS might be genitical linked and passed down 
>through the female to both men and women and must be matched with the 
>same gene to create the ability to Rsee.S  It could be that the reason for
>it 
>shows up only in 10% of the population tested.  If so one might beable to 
>put forth the thesis that the vast majority of the women who had this 
>gene were distroyed during the burning times, and thus limiting its spread 
>into the population base at large.

First, you misread the statistics.  Colin says that 10% are really bad at
vis. and 10% are really good.  This means that the other 80% are somewhere
in the middle.  Sounds like a normal bell curve to me.  As for it being lost
in "the Burning Times", well, very few of the people killed in the various
witch hunts were probably practitioners of any type.  The women who were killed
(and the 10% who were men) would have represented the whole gene pool, not
some specific portion of it.  There were villages (in Germany, I believe) where
almost all of the women were killed.  This does not make genetic implications
likely.  Also, it cannot be passed only through the female *and* require being
matched *and* show up in men.  If it is only passed through women, it is on
the X cromosome.  If it is on the X and requires a matching gene, then only
women can exhibit the trait, since only women have the necessary doubling of
the X.

One other point--you are assuming that the ability to visualise is somehow
tied to magic.  While visualisation is a very common tool in the sorts of 
magic which people write books about, it is not used in all types of magic.
Also, it is not only used in magic.  My flatmate has a Masters in mathematical
logic.  He is much better at visualistion than I am.  This is a very good thing,
since visualisation is apparently very important in a lot of higher math.  I
do not think that this means that most mathematicians are secretly practicing
magic--my flatmate certainly isn't.


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: kanderso@reed.edu (Karl Anderson)
Subject: Re: Spirit in the house, and parents won't listen...
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 08:31:00 GMT

In article <JOSHUA.92Sep9102342@bailey.cpac.washington.edu> joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller) writes:

>get you' and 'trying to get in' eh?  why don't you try using a worldview in
>which these kind of things don't exist? sure, that won't have the advantage

This is, I believe, the third time that you have suggested this
tactic.  It is simple enough to show no benefit from repetition.

I find that your posts have decreased in quality since you recieved
Jesus as the one true savior.

>josh

karl

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shava@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Shava Nerad Averett)
Subject: Re: The pentagram
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 01:33:51 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.130801.8027@linus.mitre.org> ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org (Peter Trei) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.134332.11359@ddsw1.mcs.com> eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com
>(Eshin-Fun) writes:
>> It is a venerable symbol used
>>by Wiccans, Masons, and Pagans representing Truth, Knowledge, and Divinity
>             ^^^^^^
>		- where do you get this idea? I'm honestly curious.

Tsk, Peter!  Maybe he knows someone in eastern star?  Silly!

Plug for Peter -- 
He is the guardian of the masonic digest, and you can send him email if you
are interested.  I get it, and *I'm* not a mason...;)

-- 
Shava Nerad Averett				shava_averett@unc.edu
/*  all materials (c)1992, Shava Nerad Averett, and have nothing significant
    to do with the University of North Carolina, a mostly owned subsidiary 
    of the NC Legislature, a mostly owned subsidiary of the DOT.      */
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: tucker@mitre.org (William Tucker)
Subject: Re: empathic links
Keywords: Re: empathic links
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA, USA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 19:45:29 GMT


Hi -


You (Jason R. Pascucci) wrote:

  [stuff deleted]


I (William Tucker) respond:

  Is that so?

     ;-)


Wm T.

.standard disclaimer
Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.pagan
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Bran at Ohio Renn Faire
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:03:36 GMT


I will be at the Ohio Rennaisance Festival this weekend, working at Kamala's
Essential Oils and Perfumes.  I would be happy to meet any of you that might
be at the Faire.

I will not get caught up on news until at least Mon., and will not respond to
email over the weekend.  Don't Panic (in big, friendly letters), I'll be back
soon! :-)


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
From: cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Smalltalk
Date: 8 Sep 92 23:35:07 GMT

cal@otter.hpl.hp.com (Colin Low) writes...

> I had a question about the Smalltalk Blue Book, and I appreciate it was an
> obscure throwaway remark, so I'll try to explain why it has its place in
> my library of sacred magical texts (along with Misner, Thorne and Wheeler's
> `Gravitation' ;-)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> I am being perfectly serious for a change, which is the worst possible omen.

Okay, I'll bite!  As an astrophysicist, I'm curious about your connections
between physics and magic.

'Force' and 'form' seem to enter in a more direct way than in the fairly
abstract realms of programming structures.  When I first read your Notes
(gee - over a year ago when they were posted on alt.pagan!), I initially
identified 'form' with matter and 'force' with energy, but I soon realized
that was a very naive way of looking at these concepts.  Energy can
'constrain' and matter can 'cause change'!

Anyway, I'd like to hear about why Misner, Thorne, and Wheeler apply to
magic to you.  How about Jackson?  Landau and Lifshitz?  :-)?
____________________________________________________________________________
   "Hold the flame 'til the dream ignites..."

                                  Steve Cranmer
                                  cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
From: eddie@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Edward M. Averett)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: The Simon Iff Method (Was Re: Shielding)
Date: 9 Sep 92 01:55:27 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

In article <65477@cup.portal.com> Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva) writes:
>9209.08 [The Birthday of my Abyss!]
>
>'Bunny' Averett posted what I think is more along my lines of Wizardry.
>Shielding is nice, but when I engage in what I call 'magick', the
>following quote comes closer to my style.  It is from the book,

This is a lovely quote from one of Aleister's rather more badly written books
(opinion).

There is so much Joy in the universe. This quote almost exactly describes
the way I work.  And just last evening I was feeling that my post on shielding
was still just addressing peripheral issues, though I felt that I was answering
the question which was asked.

Those posts are relevant,  basic, and yes, they are more like wizardry. 
But Tagi's post more closely addresses some of the "advanced" (I hate to use
that word), methods of looking at magick.

I am reminded of one of my favorite books.  Soren Kierkegaard's "Fear and 
Trembling".  Actually, I want to post on that as related to this, so I'm 
going to run off and read it and Moonchild again in the next few days, and 
then repost on this topic.  Hee-hee. .How fun!

			-Bunny Averett
			-eddie@legba.oit.unc.edu
			Papa Legba
 
to this topic.  Hee-hee.        
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: tag@hermes.ecn.purdue.edu (Tony A. Gibbens)
Subject: just a question
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 23:55:23 GMT


listening to various friends and reading various post, I have a question.
Is it possible for a person, without any training or conscience effort,
to act as a magnet (lack of a better term) or what-ever for "unusual" events?
By events I mean; calling numbers on a roulet table correctly, picturing some 
event (outside of personal control) and having it occur, sometimes seeing
things either not there or not percieved by others, etc.

Please note, I'm not claiming any of this

tag@ecn.purdue.edu
From: amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Bell's Theorem (was Re: empathic links)
Date: 15 Sep 92 05:31:04 GMT

jasonp@cunix4.Prime.COM (Jason R. Pascucci) writes:
> I'm sorry, maybe I'm a little rusty, but didn't Bell's theorem get 
> superceded by, or perhaps was just explaining the effects of,  Quantum 
> Mechanics?

No.  Basically, it's a rigorous elaboration of the "Einstein-Polodsky-Rosen 
Effect."  In simple terms, it says "if Quantum Mechanics is true, local 
causality is not."

> It's outside of relativity, because it doesn't have anything
> (really) to do with it, not because of so-called 'superluminal'
> transmission of data. 

Sort of.  It doesn't involve a "signal," or "transmission of information."  
It simply shows how, if quantum mechanics works, causality is violated.  The 
mathematics works, although there is mild debate about whether it has been 
experimentally verified.  Alain Aspect (a researcher in France) claims to 
have verified it, and I gather that most quantum phsyicists accept his 
findings, but there has been some opposition in the professional literature.
From: dewind@acsu.buffalo.edu (Idbil Fubar)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: MAGIK
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:55:53 GMT
Organization: UB

shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith) writes:

>harish.reddy@factory.com (Harish Reddy) writes..

>>Does anyone have a 'spell or a mantr that I msy lesrn to furthrt my
>>brlef? Still hopefull(enternity snd the eternal circle)

>How about the Oxford English Dictionary? I feel it would be more to
>your need....

Hehehehe.

Nothing comes overnight.  One must train hard in order to accomplish anything.
It would be like asking a guitarist for a riff to let you learn better even
though you never practice.

-Id
From: v085r6qm@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Erin D Markle)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: The pentagram
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:26:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <65459@cup.portal.com>, Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva) writes...
>9209.08 e.v.  [The Birthday of my Abyss!]
>'Inverted' and 'upright' imply a 'correct' orientation of the star.
>If you want to be seen as a fundamentalist or an ignoramus, please
>use these terms. ;>  Otherwise, I suggest what some others have taken
>to use: 'point-up' and 'point-down'.  Adios!
I really don't want to sound accusatory here, but this
kind of negative nit picking seems as if it could somewhat
counter-productive. If someone is not communicating an idea
under the terms of consensus-definitions (such as using a
the term, "consensus-definitions"), and if I think that it
is a signifigant enough of a dilema, I usually find that
neutrally offering the information gives the idea a better
chance of incorporation into the other person's "mental
warehouse."
     I'm not thinking that it's "too hot in the kitchen."
In fact, when someone is trying to point out by-products
of a HATE MACHINE (even it's a very small machine, it can
still be very potent once it grows,) the person who says,
"well if you can't take the heat..." is often the person
who is feeling the heat and in turn, suggest the source of
the really hot heat leave...(even if it's only a fireman)
     I'm aware that I tend to champion (in my own feeble 
way) the seemingly smallest of causes. I do think that it's
pertinent to Occult studies. If we train ourselves to be
exact enough, and develop the kind of discrimination that
devotes our energies to proper growth and propagation, it
SEEMS that it can only aid us on our path.
        Did someone say that sin is restriction? A lot
of people have. Restriction of what? How does one go about
restricting? Can it be done many ways? Is it anything like
the milk commercial on T.V. where the cool, accepted kid
tells the unsure nerdy kid that he's doing it all wrong
because he brought a bag lunch? "you're in Junior High now."
To me that quote says a lot. That kind of communication has
it's place. Is that place here? (that is a sincere question)
I know that this is a REALLY LONG post. I've spent a lot of
time reading past posts, and this tiny little seed has
germinated many times... it kind of seems like a prickly
weed. (yes, to me) I think it's worth the self examination
if nothing else.
 Does anyone remember how dissapointed Merlin was in, EXCALIBUR
when he found that Morgana's magic was riddled with bat's eyes?
She became very powerful, but never weeded her garden... just
fed the weeds. Fiction don't mean it aint real.

                                  Exhaustably yours,
                                           Friend of Erin
> 
>Thyagi
>------------------------------------
>Fear is, in some ways, the opposite of love.
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 23:07:55 GMT


The FAQ is posted approximately every two weeks.  At the same time, the intro
to Crowley's _Magick_ is also posted.  The Crowley material is not related to
the FAQ--some of us like it, and some of us think it is inane.  It is also a
good idea to observe what others discuss, and how they discuss.


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: Easter's date
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
	<Bu0uK0.Avw@news.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Sep4.141517.15804@venus.ic.cmc.ca>
	<Bu2LIE.J40@news.cso.uiuc.edu> <188mubINNigo@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU>
	<joshua.715873536@coombs> <18fr4eINN99b@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU>
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 16:53:04 GMT

In article <18fr4eINN99b@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU> SL500000@brownvm.brown.edu 
(Robert Mathiesen) writes:

   Yes, the 19-year cycle to which I referred is the Metonic cycle, or derives
   from it.  The calendar in I Enoch indeed bears a relation to the Christian
   Easter calculations mentioned in my last posting.  (Do you know about the
   late Otto Neugebauer's two books on these calculations and his appendix to
   a recent translation of I Enoch?  You might enjoy them.  I'll post the re-
   ferences if they're of interest.)  

no I haven't, and please do.

josh
From: ov@saturn.cs.swin.oz.au (Owen Veenstra)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Necromancy
Date: 11 Sep 92 01:57:44 GMT
Organization: Swinburne Institute of Technology, Hawthorn, Victoria



In article <JOSHUA.92Sep3101506@bailey.cpac.washington.edu>, you write:
|> 
|> In article <1992Sep3.141108.11717@ddsw1.mcs.com> eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com 
|> (Eshin-Fun) writes:
|> 
|> >   As it stands, the most popular views of this is in the works of John Dee 
|> >   hin is Actions with Spirits or "A true and faithful Relation of what 
|> >  pased for  many years between Dr. John Dee and some spirits." (London 1659)
|> 
|> have you actually read this book?
|> 
|> >   and in Allan Kardek's Book of Mediums, Book of Spirits etc in the 1800's 
|> >   in France.
|> 
|> >   Kardec introduced the popular ouija board or planchette, automatic writing
|> >   etc as John Dee introduced the conversation with spirits in a graveyard
|> >   where he did a lot of his experiments. Including of these spirits talking
|> >   backwards etc.
|> 
|> obviously not. Dee did exactly none of his experiments in graveyards. what
|> happened was that edward kelley and some third person were doing some 'black
|> mgick' (demonology as opposed to necromancy). when dee found out about this
|> he became very upset and made kelley promise to stop.
|> 
|> I've been reading your posts with interest, because they mostly deal with
|> things I know little about and they seem accurate. Unfortunately, this is
|> a subject I know a bit about, and your relation of it is dead wrong. This
|> (to me) throws up a big question mark after your other reportage.
|> 
|> josh

   Josh,

      You seem to know alot about Mr J Dee.  If this is the case, could I
   get some information from you : could you provide me with a list of
   books JD authored.  If anyone else out there knows such infromation,
   I would appreciate their input too.
 
      I ask because months ago in alt.horror (in discussin Lovecraftian Horror
   origins), a guy sited a "transcription" of the Necronimicon, and provided
   as proof a library listing of it's existance.  Since the Necro is supposed
   to be fictional, my (and others) interests was aroused.

      I would prefer a email posting if at all possible.

      Many thanks in advance.

           email address :  ov@saturn.cs.swin.oz.au

                             
                                Owen
From: shava@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Shava Nerad Averett)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Re: (Was Shielding) Now: Letting shields down.
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:36:08 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

In article <1992Sep13.231046.28871@spider.co.uk> malcolmc@spider.co.uk (Malcolm Campbell) writes:
>In article <65681@cup.portal.com> Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva) writes:
>>
>>This is true only to a point.  If we are besieged, then our 'defenses'
>>become our own worst enemy.  When it becomes important to get past
>>that 'halo' or that 'minefield' we may find ourselves severely hampered.
>>
>>Yes, it will keep people out, but it will also keep us IN.  In the case
>>of a fire in the citadel or a shortage of food we may need to get out
>>very quickly.  Having the map to the minefield may, at that point,
>>prove largely irrelevant.
>
>At this point the metaphor breaks down however.. A personal shield is more
>like armour, than a wall - it moves with you. I cant see the problem of
>being besieged in it. 

There is a marvelous song that Sting does, and I believe he wrote, called
"Fortress Around Your Heart."  As an exercise, imagine he's singing it
to a younger self.  At any rate, an interesting bit of poetry/lyric having
to do with shields...

-- 
Shava Nerad Averett				shava_averett@unc.edu
/*  all materials (c)1992, Shava Nerad Averett, and have nothing significant
    to do with the University of North Carolina, a mostly owned subsidiary 
    of the NC Legislature, a mostly owned subsidiary of the DOT.      */
From: Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Re: (Was Shielding) Now: Letting shields down.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 11:40:38 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <83950137@otter.hpl.hp.com> <1992Sep11.084334.6306@spider.co.uk>

9209.11 e.v.

Malcolm Campbell writes:

Placing barbed wire on top of a wall that someone might try to
climb over isnt an attack. Placing a minefield around a defensive position
isnt an attack. Pouring boiling oil off castle walls might be, but thats not
what Im doing..

Theres an important difference between a defense which counter-attacks, and
a defense which allows you to hurt yourself on it.

I think the former is weak, in magical terms. The counter-attack can be
turned back on your own defenses.. A completely passive defense, such as
a halo/wall of thorns, barbed wire etc - doesnt have that possibility.


Response:

This is true only to a point.  If we are besieged, then our 'defenses'
become our own worst enemy.  When it becomes important to get past
that 'halo' or that 'minefield' we may find ourselves severely hampered.

Yes, it will keep people out, but it will also keep us IN.  In the case
of a fire in the citadel or a shortage of food we may need to get out
very quickly.  Having the map to the minefield may, at that point,
prove largely irrelevant.

A thought.

Thyagi
----------------------------------------------------------
A wall of roses would smell nice and may also keep intruders away. :>
From: amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Brainwashing
Date: 7 Sep 92 04:56:08 GMT

murraysd@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Stephen D Murray) writes:
> I am particularly keen to get more information on Neuro-linguistics.

If you mean Neuro-Linguistic Programming, Carol can probably point you in the 
right direction.  If you mean a scientific discipline called 
"neurolinguistics," there ain't no such animal as far as I know.  The closest 
I can think of would be psycholinguistics or neuropsychology (which is 
generally concerned with low-level aspects of perception).

While the article in question had some good points, the author threw around a 
lot of jargon, only some of which actually had anything to do with what he 
was talking about, or even actually meant anything.


--Amanda Walker
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: augh. darn computer
Supersedes: <92255.161143WJS112@psuvm.psu.edu>
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:25:59 EDT
From: <WJS112@psuvm.psu.edu>

      Any spells for bad computer systems? :)

























                                         fuzzy.