From: neil@celia.UUCP (Neil Richmond)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Aikido, (effectiveness)
Keywords: wristlocks
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:00:40 GMT
Reply-To: celia!neil@usc.edu (Neil Richmond)
Organization: Rhythm & Hues, Inc., Hollywood

In article <3449@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
 
>	Even an experienced aikidoka tends to give up her balance much
>more than is neccesary when grabbing or striking.  I believe that to
>be because they don't concentrate on grabbing or striking, but rather
>on responses to those attacks.  This is not a problem for a judoka,
>since they learn grabbing at the same time as they learn throwing.

I find this the case in some Aikidoka, but usually this is because either a
beginner or working with a beginner. To contrsting scenarios: I was working
with someone who was about two years experienced in Aikido. We were doing a
technique called nodotskiage which is an irimi technique aimed sort of at 
throat in response to a number of attacks. At the time I was nage the student 
would make this grab and turn before I made my response to make his roll.
He was anticipating my response because he knew what technique was coming.
This is wrong training. Because in a randori situation, you do not really know
what might be coming. To anticipate the response to an attack and do the ukemi 
before the technique is dangerous.

Second scenario: Last night. I am doing randori as nage. The uke attacks. I 
move too soon and give away my response to his attack. The uke stops dead and 
I cannot do the technique and I am dead (figuratively speaking).

>	Even an experienced aikidoka tends to forget that I don't
>neccesarily _have_ to "lead your mind", or lead any part of you, to
>get your balance.   Take koshi-nage (aikidoka for "hip throw" :-).  I
>don't _need_ to lead your balance out and gently tip you over.  I can throw
>you with leverage, by using my upper thigh or even my ankle as a fulcrum.
>Your boldy upright aikido posture actually makes this easier...
>(To translate for the judo folks: they do hip throws as hand techniques,
>and use their hip more to block uke's movement to safety than as some-
>thing to roll or pull uke over.  If they don't feel that "lead", that
>energy or guidance from the hands, they feel perfectly safe but can easily
>be thrown with ashi-garuma or o-garuma or harai or... :-).  

All our techniques are connected to the hips. Leading is an important part
of Aikido. Even boxers lead with a technique called a fake, like shifting
shoulders. It allows the nage to seize the mind of the attacker. A good nage
can do this without the attacker realizing it until they have stepped into
the hole, so to speak. In koshi nage, the nage still leads with the hips.

>	OK?  That's all I meant.  That because of their unique style
>of training, an aikidoka tends to give up more on their attacks, and 
>to feel unrealistically secure in certain defensive modes.  And that
>judoka and wrestlers make lousy aikido ukes because certain reflexes
>that they've built up make it difficult for certain aikido techniques
>to work prettily.

I know that Aikido looks flashy because the uke is throwing himself. This
is for self protection. There is a point in a technique where the nage is
in danger from the attack and a point where the uke is in danger from the
throw. Ukemi is an art of survival, absorbing a fall and getting away from
the nage. Therefore, Aikido throws look flashy.

neil
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Neil F. Richmond         INTERNET: celia!neil@usc.edu
Rhythm & Hues Inc.       UUCP: ...{ames,hplabs}!lll-tis!celia!neil)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts