HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: briley@cbnewse.cb.att.com (bruce.m.riley)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: REI Trail Dome Tent?
Keywords: REI Trail Dome
Date: 13 Aug 92 12:38:38 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL 60563

Hi,

I'm thinking about buying an REI Trail Dome tent
and was wondering if anyone could tell me anything
about it.  I think there may have been a discussion
about it in this group a while back, but I searched
back as far as I could without any luck.  I'm sorry
if I'm reopening a closed conversation.

Thanks
Bruce Riley
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: sherod@news.Colorado.EDU (Scott Herod)
Subject: more on elk, moose, and other beasties
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 18:57:58 GMT

I went and checked at the library.

Order Artiodactyla   (even-toed cud chewers)

     Family Cervidae  (deer)
           Includes Moose (European Elk), Elk (Amer. Wapiti),
           Euro. Red Deer (very similar to wapiti), Caribou,
           reindeer (both Rangifer, genus or species?), Altai-Wapiti
           (Asian deer Maral), etc


     Family Giraffidea  (only two species)

     Family Antilocapridae  (Pronghorn only species)

     Family Bovidae   (Cattle)
            Goats, sheep, Bison (American, European), Buffalo,
            Cattle, Musk Ox, and Antelope.

but no unicorns

Scott
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: Glenn Stauffer <stauffer@cc.swarthmore.edu>
Subject: Re: Acadia Report & A Controversial Issue (somewhat long)
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A6BB316808044333@mac1.beardsley.swarthmore.edu>
X-Xxdate: Fri, 21 Aug 92 04:48:56 GMT
Organization: Swarthmore College Computing Center
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 03:49:26 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.030208.22634@athena.mit.edu> Lawrence P Lubowsky,
misterl@athena.mit.edu writes:
>Now I recognize the fact that the stores in the park steal business
>from the stores in Bar Harbor, but is it right for the town stores to
>urge visitors to avoid buying goods in the park?  Personally, I don't
>see the need for the stores to be in Acadia when the stores in Bar
>Harbor are equally accessible.  This is unlike most other national
>parks, where the closest towns are hours away OUTSIDE the park.  Bar
>Harbor is practically in the middle of Acadia.  
>

I would have to agree with the Bar Harbor merchants.  Many of them live
there and keep
their shops open year 'round.  The park shops are definitely not open all
year and are
probably owned by large corporate interests.  I'd prefer to see the park
devoid of shops
altogether.

Acadia is a beautiful place, though one must remember that it was long a
playground for
the rich New Yorkers who had summer homes in Bar Harbor.  If you want
desolate natural park 
lands in Maine, head toward the Allagash or Baxter.  I like Acadia for
the coast - awesome 
(but dangerous) during a storm - and for the miles for Mt Bike (and
X-Country Ski) trails.  

Is Jackson Labs hiring?

Glenn Stauffer
stauffer@cc.swarthmore.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: JB <jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com>
Subject: Re: Wanted, good 4-5 day East Coast hike
Organization: Censored
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1b3
     <93asw-130892141326@biology-mac01.williams.edu>
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:29:06 GMT

In article <93asw-130892141326@biology-mac01.williams.edu> Andrew Wright,
93asw@williams.edu writes:
>.  South of there is a huge dam, which a
>good place to start/stop a hike.  (Starts with an "F")  

Do you mean Fontana Dam?  Beautiful lake, lots of trout and brim,
absolutely sea green from the chlorophyl run off.  There are hot showers
at the top of the dam and the AT crosses there, plenty of parking.  Yes,
I concur, a nice place to start or stop.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: Jan Blair <janbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com>
Subject: Re: boot angst
Organization: NTI
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1b3
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:15:29 GMT

In article <01050131.adju91@mariposa.stonecutter.com> Don Sawtelle,
sawtelle@mariposa.stonecutter.com writes:
>
>In particular, I wonder:
>
>a) What did you do when the original insoles of your heavy boots wore
>out? Heavy boots will last long enough to go through a number of sets
>of insoles... what insoles are best?
>b)  Does anyone use their boots without insoles, and just depend on
>cushy socks? The first backpacking trip I ever went on, in high school,
>I remember I borrowed my dad's boots, and they didn't have insoles,
>just the hard leather bottoms. This was a 9 day trip with a pretty
>loaded pack, and I don't remember having problems, really, beyond the
>usual foot weariness that I guess one has to expect.
>c) Does anyone else find that they have to wear three socks (one liner,
>two wool) when they wear heavy boots?
>d) Does anyone know of seriously cushy socks (cushier than the
>heavier-weight wool socks from REI, which they don't seem to have in
>the summer, and cushier than Trekking Thor-Lo Pads) that they really
>like?
>
Perhaps you have had the same problem I've had with any kind of athletic
shoe. My foot rolls outward simply because the WIDTH is incorrect.  I
have solved this problem by buying Vasque footbeds for narrow feet and
fitting them into my Merrell Zephyrs.  The same problem can happen when a
wide foot is "balancing" on a narrow sole. Regarding socks:  Long ago a
ski instructor taught us that ONE pair is best.  This eliminates the
multiple slip and slide points within the boot.  I use one pair of ThorLo
hiking socks, no liner.  With the correct fit in the boot, the sock is
less important, but I wouldn't dream of trekking without ThorLo's (I'm
spoiled).  I recommend also shopping for your socks in the fall and
winter.  Socks are seasonally displayed/sold.
From: leonglaw@hpsgm2.sgp.hp.com (Lawrence Leong)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 12:24:55 GMT
Subject: Re: GAZ stove and lantern
Organization: HP Singapore
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

In rec.backcountry, rudoff@mdd.comm.mot.com (Doug Rudoff) writes:


|Anyone have any comments about the GAZ stoves and lanterns for
|backpacking use?
|
|The reason I ask is that I wasn't that impressed with the MSR
|Whisperlite: White gas on my hands, having to pump the container (why
|don't they add a pressure gauge!), the priming, etc.
|
|It seems that with the GAZ all you have to do is light it. The newer
|catridges with the butane/propane mix can handle colder temperatutes
|and the lantern looks useful. Is it easy to transfer an unfinished
|cartridge between a stove an lantern?
|
|Since I hear all these raves about the Whisperlite maybe it's better
|than I think it is. But I haven't heard anything about the GAZ stuff
|here, so I've been wondering how well they work.

There are two types of gaz cartridges/tanks; both mutually exclusive
(switching and stove/lantern unit).  The small disposable type depend on the
receiver puncturing it (and therefore must be attached directly to the lantern
or stove).  One-time use, non-refillable :-(  Kinda expensive too.  Similar 
in design and size to the Primus type.  Good only for shorter trips or where 
(lack of) weight is important.  Also, must use it up as there is no way to 
stopper the cartridge when the stove/lantern is removed.

The refillable tank (yes, it's bit 'n heavy, mine is about 12" diameter, 8" 
high, sorry, can't remember the weight), has a screw-in valve.  There is a 
ball check-valve which is pushed in by the lamp/stove base.  Much better for
longer trips, or where you won't have to carry it for long distances.  This
design allows you to remove the lantern/stove half-way (unit turned off, of
course :-)).  Since the valve is screw-in, you can pipe gas to the stove,
distance limited by your piping.

I've not used the Whisperlite.  I have used old pressure lamps (same mantle,
but fuel is kerosene) which were a pain to use and start.  Compared to that,
the gaz is a joy.  Are GAZ products common in US?  If not, perhaps the limited
availablity explains the paucity of comments.

just my $0.02
lawrence

|
|
|-- 
|=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
|Doug Rudoff          Motorola, Seattle    INTERNET:rudoff@mdd.comm.mot.com
|                                            USENET:uunet!mdisea!rudoff   
|=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: pete@aix1.uottawa.ca (Peter Hickey)
Subject: Re: Frequency of Bear Encounters on Hiking Trails
Keywords: bears encounters hiking
Organization: Computing & Comm. Services, University of Ottawa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 16:00:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.091635.3126@regina.cs.uregina.ca> craig@phenix.cc.uregina.ca (Craig Knelsen) writes:
>
>I have been reading this newsgroup for a few months and don't recall seeing
>any posts about bear encounters on the hiking trails. Do people just not
>bother with posting articles about bear encounters and how they dealt with it
>or are encounters really that infrequent and of little interest to others?
>I realize that bears are unpredictable and people don't generally relish the
>thought (myself included) of encountering one in the backcountry. Yet, I
>can't help wonder if the posting of such encounters may alleviate the
>anxiety and fear some may have of going into the backcountry. Or is everyone
>here seasoned backcountry travellers who wish to handle this kind of
>situation in their own way?
>

We're all elitist bastards, and we know bears on a first name basis.
We don't consider them a threat, they're our friends.  When we see them,
they know who we are and they leave us alone.

(Sorry Craig...)
-- 
Pete Hickey               | Pete@mudhead.uottawa.CA | "If a vegetarian eats
Communication Services    |   or (if desperate)     |  vegatables, then what
University of Ottawa      | petehic@uottawa.bitnet  |  does a humanitarian
Ottawa,Ont. Canada K1N 6N5|  (613) 564-7646         |  eat?"
From: lindemanbria@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: South Dakota Backcountry
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:17:41 GMT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

In article <1992Aug10.171745.10455@news2.cis.umn.edu>, Groenke <kevin@ssc.space.umn.edu> writes:
> I was dragged into South Dakota as a youth to go to Wall Drug, the
> reptile gardens, Bear Country USA, and Mt. Rushmore.

Don't forget Flintstone Village, Al's Oasis and (my favorite) the world's 
only Corn Palace!

> So what do you think now?  If you had the two choices given where would
> you go?  Where is the best wilderness?  What will the weather be like in
> both places over the week of Labor Day?  The weather report on Sept 3rd
> will probably determine wether we go north or west.

The weather may not be a lot different in these two areas.  I just got back 
from camping in northern Michigan (LP), and I spent a week in the Black Hills 
about the same time last year.  Both places were fairly chilly, but the Black 
Hills were much rainier.  Perhaps I've just hit some freak weather.

Based on these two trips, I'd give the Custer area serious consideration.
While in the Black Hills, I camped about 11 miles from the nearest settlement 
(Custer) and found the hiking to be wonderful.  Of course, that was on private 
land.  Once you get into the state campgrounds or the (gasp!) KOAs, it's gonna 
be wall to wall, but it would probably be worth it.  Have a great trip!
-- 
Brian Lindeman
LINDEMANBRIA@bvc.edu
I wanna be sedated.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: unexpected hazards of climbing
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:22:09 GMT

In article <80717@bcsaic.boeing.com>,
kew@bcsaic.boeing.com (Keith Williamson) writes:
>
>I had an interesting experience this weekend, involving a hazard of
>climbing that I had never thought of before :-).  My partner, Yvonne,
>and I were climbing Mt. Cruiser in the Olympics.  At one point we were
>setting up a rappel when a large male mountain goat (with very large
>and sharp horns) began to approach us.  Since I have had them come
>within 10 yards before, I didn't think much of it at first.  However,
>the goat went right up to Yvonne and starting licking her (for the salt,
>I guess).  He wouldn't let up.  Since we didn't want to wait around for
>him to finish, we starting yelling at him to go on his way.  Finally,
>he left.  However, he followed us most of the afternoon (he obviously
>liked Yvonne :-).

Does Yvonne usually attract "old goats".

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. :-)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: karl@thuja.gsfc.nasa.gov (Karl A. Anderson)
Subject: Re: Backcountry Coffee:  Heresy!!!!!!
Organization: NASA/GSFC Laboratory for Terrestrial Physics
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 18:09:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.115948.18885@brtph560.bnr.ca>, JB <jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com> writes:
|> Am I to infer from all the previous furor that I am the only trekker to
|> use (oh God, do I dare say the word.....shudder) INSTANT coffee?????

Heck, no.  When I'm in the bc, I love to start the day with a steaming cup of
instant coffee and instant hot chocolate, mixed.  Really cuts through the fog!
-- 
Karl A. Anderson		| Internet: karl@thuja.gsfc.nasa.gov
NASA/GSFC code 920.2 (HSTX)	| voice: (301) 286-3815
Greenbelt, MD 20771		| #include "std_disclaimer"
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: [l/m 6/20/91] Leopold's post Distilled Wisdom (15/28)	XYZ
Followup-To: poster
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 11:20:11 GMT
Reply-To: eugene@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
From: hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Harold F Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Comments on Yellowstone
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:15:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: vice.10198
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

In article <1992Aug20.011237.8653@news.eng.convex.com> oexmann@convex.com (Carla Oexmann) writes:

>I just read a book by the Yellowstone Chief Ranger ( Scholly ?  something
>like that ).  He mentioned an experiment where they put heart monitors 
>on elk and watched as snowmobiles and xc skiers went by.  After the
>first part of the season, the monitors showed scarcely a blip when the
>snowmobilers went by, but skyrocketed when the skiers went by.

Well, there has to be a reason for this.  I can't believe elk would
naturally be more afraid of a skier than a noisy snowmobile.
However they aren't totally stupid and would quickly learn something
about the behavior of each type of intruder.  My guess is that the
cause is one of two things:

1.  Maybe the guy who hooked up the heart monitors was on skis.  If
so the elk could associate skiers with the tranquilizer gun etc.  I
have to believe that installation of a monitor was an unpleasant
experience for the elk.

2.  Maybe the snowmobilers tend to be in a hurry to get where they 
are going.  Elk would quickly realize that those noisy things just 
go on by and don't bother anybody.  Skiers on the other hand might 
be more likely to stop and gawk, take pictures, etc.  This could 
make the animals nervous.  Even those who don't do so would remind 
them of those who did.

3.  Skiers, standing upright, might remind the elk of hunters while
snowmobilers would not.  Of course there is no hunting in the park
but elk tend to wander quite a bit and may not remain confined to
the park.  Some of those animals may have experience with hunters.

Anybody have any other proposed reasons for this phenomenon?  Or
better still, results of hard research on the reasons?
From: gascan@dcst16.dc (Bill Gascoyne)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Moose & Elk
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:41:45 GMT
Reply-To: gascan@dcst16.dc
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation

In article 14160@auspex-gw.auspex.com, johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
>
>If Bullwinkle was mentioned along time ago we could have saved a lot of
>bandwidth.
>

How important is saving bandwidth?  Don't post anything; that'll save lots of
bandwidth.

---
1. Bill Gascoyne
From: steve@yogi.hsc.ucalgary.ca
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Flashbulbs (was: Public Perceptions)
Date: 17 Aug 92 14:24:08 MDT

In article <1992Aug11.002109.4640@PA.dec.com>, klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee) writes:
> |> hmmmmmm... Somehow, shooting backcountry landscapes with a throw-away 
> |> camera strikes me as a picture of irony (yeah, pun intended).
> |> 
> |> How do those things work?  Do they recycle them when they pull the
> |> film out or do they just throw 'em on the heap?
> 
> They are advertised as "recyclable".  In the past, most were discarded,
> but many are probably recycled now.  I don't know if "recycled" really
> means the plastic is used to make more cameras.  Very little "recycled"
> plastic is actually remade into similar products.  Most is simply 
> shredded and used as packaging filler.
> 
> -- 
> Ken Lee

I am almost certain that they re-load them.

-- 
[*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*]
[*]                                 [*]                                 [*]
[*]    Steve Hocevar                [*]                ravecoH evetS    [*]
[*]    Calgary, Alberta, Canada     [*]     adanaC ,atreblA ,yraglaC    [*]
[*]                                 [*]                                 [*]
[*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*]
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: strider@acm.rpi.edu (Greg Moore)
Subject: Re: Hiking Gear
Organization: The Voice of Fate
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:10:05 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.224107.11150@cs.brown.edu> ST402676@brownvm.brown.edu writes:
>------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
>
>Could someone help me out with buying hiking gear?  I am new to hiking and
>want to what's good and what isn't(from boots to backpacks).  I'd also like
>it if you could give me an idea of how much i will be spending.
>
>        		dan
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
>If there is an outing club at your school, borrow equipment from them first, or
>borrow from friends, or from a local organization like the AMC. That way you
>figure out what YOU think you need and what you like, and you can make the
>investments one at a time. The decision depends a great deal on what kind of
>hiking you end up doing... I even borrowed boots when I started many years ago,
>although many people frown on that.

	As a matter of fact, I KNOW that UMASS has an outing club.  I've gone
camping witha  few of them on Lake George over the years.  (I also know that
Brown has an outing club... ran into a few of them at a conference 4 years 
back.)  Anyway, teh advice is good.  Many outing clubs can help you with gear.

The outing club at my college has over $50,000 worthof equipment, ranging
from old kelty external fram packs to large brand-new Gregory internal
fram expidition packs.

	Most outing clubs will have similar amounts of equipment.  Even if
they don't you can talk to people first hand.  Also, I've been know to lend
out personal gear if I think the person can make use of it and not destroy
it.

	Incidently, for people on the east coast, I ahve a list of colleges
that either HAVE or HAD an outing club.  Much of the list is out of date.
If you are asscociated witha a colelge outing club, please send me an
updated MAILing address and possible a contact person.
	If you want to get in TOUCH with an outing club, let me know I can
see what I can do.


-- 
<------------------------------------------------------------------------->
Greg d. Moore                  |  Strider@acm.rpi.edu
Green Mountain Software        |  "All that is gold does not glitter."  
Carpe Diem                     | 
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: ssnyder@sunai.er.usgs.gov (Steve Snyder)
Subject: Re: Frequency of Bear Encounters on Hiking Trails
Keywords: bears encounters hiking
Organization: Who, me? You should see my desk!
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 20:33:10 GMT

I've seen bears on about half a dozen hikes in Shenandoah NP.

However, my most unusual "bear encounter" involved my car.
I was driving towards a campsite late one afternoon in Algonkian (sp?)
National Park in Ontario a couple years ago when a black bear darted
out in front of me from the underbrush. I slammed on my brakes, but
I was not able to avoid hitting it. It slide along the road and went
over the embankment. A couple other people saw it happen and we all
stopped and watched the bear wander off into the woods. One of them 
got a hold of a park ranger who went to look for it. They never did 
find it, I found out later. After calling my insurance agent, who
said "You hit a WHAT?...," he told me to take care of it when I got
back home, since the car was driveable. Note that this was the first
day of a 2 week vacation. So when I got back home, I went to the
claims adjuster who casually asked me what I hit, and when I told
him, he said "So YOU'RE the one who hit the bear!" Then he goes
into his office and brings out about 6 people and says to them
"Want to see what a bear does to a car?" And all of these people
are looking over my car. It was so funny. The bottom line was that
it caused about $800 in damage to my car (most of it cosmetic),
fortunately all of it covered by insurance.

Steve     "The bear killer"

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: craig@phenix.cc.uregina.ca (Craig Knelsen)
Subject: Frequency of Bear Encounters on Hiking Trails
Keywords: bears encounters hiking
Reply-To: craig@phenix.cc.uregina.ca (Craig Knelsen)
Organization: Does it matter?
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 09:16:35 GMT

I just returned from spending two weeks camping/hiking in the Canadian
Rockies (ie. Jasper, Banff, Yoho and Kootenay NPs, Mt. Robson PP). This
being my third hiking venture into the Canadian Rockies, I was beginning to
wander if there really were bears in the backcountry. I had seen one
run across the highway once and that was it. Then this year, I sighted
another bear on the highway and had two face-to-face encounters
with black bears and one "follow the bear walking on the trail" situation
while on the hiking trails.

I have been reading this newsgroup for a few months and don't recall seeing
any posts about bear encounters on the hiking trails. Do people just not
bother with posting articles about bear encounters and how they dealt with it
or are encounters really that infrequent and of little interest to others?
I realize that bears are unpredictable and people don't generally relish the
thought (myself included) of encountering one in the backcountry. Yet, I
can't help wonder if the posting of such encounters may alleviate the
anxiety and fear some may have of going into the backcountry. Or is everyone
here seasoned backcountry travellers who wish to handle this kind of
situation in their own way?
-- 

Craig Knelsen		craig@phenix.cc.uregina.ca
			Craig_Knelsen@f20.n140.z1.fidonet.org
From: smay@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Scott Smay)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 22:00:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Moose & Elk
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

Throw that dictionary away. Elk are more like really big deer, with pointy
noses and pointy antlers. Moose are like furry semi trailers on stilts, with
big fat noses and palmated antlers ala Bullwinkle. Hope this description
isn't too technical...

cheers,
scott
From: jjh00@outs.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Re: Moose, Elk and other assorted beast.
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:59:19 GMT
Reply-To: jjh00@OUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

>  sherod@news.Colorado.EDU (Scott Herod) /  4:16 pm  Aug 18, 1992 /
>> And of course American "Antelope" aren't really antelope either.
>> Confused?


  smay@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Scott Smay) writes:
>
> Wapiti are American elk, not pronghorns.
> But I thought that pronghorns really were antelope--what are they?


I should probably stay out of this, since I screwed up by posting
the mistaken idea that pronghorns are wapiti, but I've never been
one to profit from experience  ...   :-)

The genus name for pronghorns is "Antelocapri", which seems to
suggest an affinity with goats -- maybe they are antelope-like
goats?  They certainly look like goats around the muzzle ...

---
Joel Hanes