From: max@admin.mport.COM (Max)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: -REAL- Christians dont know god is dead
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:06:51 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Microport Inc., Scotts Valley, CA 95066 US of A

sschaff@roc.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Stephen F. Schaffner) writes:

>In article <2166@admin.mport.COM>, max@admin.mport.COM (Max) writes:
>|> zellner@stsci.edu writes:

>|> >Of course he's arbitrary.  He's God, and he's not in the slightest accountable
>|> >to us for his laws of good and evil, any more than he is accountable for to us
>|> >for the way he made the universe or the laws of physics.  And we don't "make
>|> >god" anything; he made us, and everything else too.
>|> 
>|> ben claimes that its not just a belief in god, it "TRUE".

>Well (assuming, as you say, that Ben does indeed believe in God) of course he 
>thinks his belief is true -- what other meaning could "belief" have in this 
>context?  

despite the fairly pooor editing you have done here, the original question
asks why should a non believer in god believe that homosexuality is a sin.
with some things in this area of belief, a non believer can understand the
prohibition, in this case, the reason is unclear. BUT you have seen fit to
edit out the question at hand. no wonder you cant understand the
interaction here.
 
>|> ah, the cruxt! ben makes a huge mistake in reason: if i dont believe in
>|> gravity, do things fall when i drop them? yes, of course, hell, even a flat
>|> earther can see that! BUT if i dont believe in god, my transgression against
>|> gods laws have no effect on me! no god=no hell! yay!
>|> 
>|> are you following this ben? god is just a beleif system, not a reflection
>|> of reality (if you believe in that...).

>Is it fair to say that your argument here is "You believe in God; I don't"?
>Obviously you think he's wrong, and he thinks you're wrong (so do I, but 
>that's beside the point), but where's the "huge mistake in reason"?

dear stephen, you again have not read the original post. here, ill help you
with this one: 

1) ed askes why a nonbeliever in god should tolerate the
god-belivers intolerance toward homosexuality. 

2) ben answers that if you believe in god you need no reason.

3) i then point out that the question asks for an earthly reason. bens
comparison of heaven to gravity is a little misplaced, as a nonbeliever in
gravity is still affected by gravity (try it sometime) but a nonbeliever in
god is not affected by heaven. i suspect that here is where you gto
confused.

it is not an argument of "you believe in god: i dont", but that was a good
guess :-) 

>[...]

>|> but i guess that THIS is really really the cruxt of the debate. it god ours
>|> or are we his. ho ho. 
>|> 
>|> actually, i spoke to god the other day, and he said
>|> to me that he was actualy working for the cia, and that he was on our side.
>|> 
>|> silly me, and i thought he was dead. :-)

>I'm having some trouble following your train of thought here. . .

you seem to be having that problem in general.

>|> if any of the above conditions will keep us out of his blessings, then what
>|> happans if you dont believe in the blessings in the first place? nothing.

>Hmm, sounds like you're not in a position to determine whether the 
>blessings exist, then: either they don't exist and you haven't got them, 
>or they do exist and you haven't got them.  

ah, spoken like a true believer. perhaps the blessing of this world have been
bestowed upon us by virtue of our being here today, and are not waiting in
a future in heaven. 

the above perspective would require a better reason to frown upon
homosexuality than " >|> >Of course he's arbitrary.  He's God, and he's 
not in the slightest accountable..."

>Now if I could just remember what this is doing on sci.skeptic . . .

heh, good luck. read first, then edit.

>Steve Schaffner        sschaff@unixhub.slac.stanford.edu

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