HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Original_To:  BITNET%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:48:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Operation Rescue, Meet ACT UP...

<        No. Their sole act was when they tried to speak their voices
<were drowned out by the congregation.

According to the article, they were attempting to "disrupt the worship services
by trying to drown out the church's minister."  Note that this was a Free
Methodist minister leading the action at a Presbyterian Church, not members of
the congregation, not even concerned bretheren approaching the minister to
speak.

Dan
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Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 23:44:28 -0500
From:         "James E. Kiefer" <kieferj@HELIX.NIH.GOV>

THE SECOND SUNDAY AFTER CHRISTMAS DAY (03 JAN 1992)

READING: Isaiah 62:6-7,10-12
 ("Say to the daughter of Zion: behold, your salvation comes!")

PSALM 97
 (The LORD is King... the heavens have declared his righteousness,
and all the peoples have seen his glory.)

EPISTLE: Titus 3:4-7
 (God has saved us, not because of our merit, but because of His
generosity, cleansing and renewing us through Jesus Christ and
the Holy Spirit.)

THE HOLY GOSPEL: Luke 2:15-20
 (The shepherds come to the manger to adore the Infant Jesus.)

PRAYER (traditional language)
   O God, who didst wonderfully create, and yet more wonderfully
   restore, the dignity of human nature: Grant that we may share
   the divine life of him who humbled himself to share our humanity,
   thy Son Jesus Christ; who liveth and reigneth with thee, in
   the unity of the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever.

PRAYER (contemporary language)
   O God, who wonderfully created, and yet more wonderfully
   restored, the dignity of human nature: Grant that we may share
   the divine life of him who humbled himself to share our humanity,
   your Son Jesus Christ; who lives and reigns with you, in
   the unity of the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever.
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Original_To:  BITNET%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:44:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Operation Pest.

<        Come now, don't you think calling it an 'atrocity' is a bit
<strong?

I saw much stronger language used when Roman Catholic members of ACT UP
pulled the same stunt at St. Patrick's.

<        Frankly, considering what the Presbyterians were sponsoring,
<I would have been out there too.  It's an affront to all that
<Christ stands for.

So you support disrupting religious ceremonies.  Do you approve of ACT UP's
action as well, or does this support only extend to those who you agree with?

Dan
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Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 07:31:34 CDT
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      Baby!

Hi All,
We got the results back from our Ultrasound and all is looking well..
Babes got a clear bill of health for as much as they could check out, and
mother is doing fine!..

Praise Him for his workmanship!


---------------------+-------------+-----------------------------------------
Ian Williams         |    _--_|\   |      Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems       |   /      \  |      Phone   : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia  |   \_.--*_/  |
                     |         v   |
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Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 14:17:15 -0500
From:         Zander's Mommy <MG_BROWN@UNHH.UNH.EDU>
Subject:      Prayer request

Hello to everyone on Christia,
I would like to ask for everyone's prayers for my Aunt Doris,she has just lost
her eyesight and it most probably cannot be corrected, her last laser surgery
failed.  This happened the day before Christmas. The day after Christmas she
suffered a heart attack and is now  out of intensive care but still in the
hospital. I'm afraid her health is not very good. Please pray for her
 daughters,one of them lives with her, the other just 1/2 mile away). Pray that
 she will
not lose her hope in Jesus, as I think that she is a strong Christian.

                                        In His love,
                                        Melanie
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Date:         Mon, 28 Dec 1992 13:36:03 EST
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      John, Apostle and Evangelist (27 Dec)

   JOHN, APOSTLE AND EVANGELIST (27 DEC) (transferred to Mon 28 Dec)

John, son of Zebedee, was one of the twelve apostles of Our Lord.
Together with his brother James and with Simon Peter, he formed a
kind of inner circle of Three among the Twelve, in that those three
were privileged to behold the miracle of the Great Catch of Fish (L
5:10), the healing of Peter's mother-in-law (P 1:29), the raising of
the daughter of Jairus (P 5:37 = L 8:51), the Transfiguration (M
17:1 = P 9:2 = L 9:28), and the Agony in Gethsemane (M 26:37 = P
14:33). He expressed a willingness to undergo martyrdom (M 20:22 = P
10:39) -- as did the other apostles (M 26:35 = P 14:31) -- and is
accordingly called a martyr in intention. However, we have ancient
testimony that, although imprisoned and exiled for his testimony to
the Gospel, he was eventually released and died a natural death in
Ephesus: "a martyr in will but not in deed."

John is credited with the authorship of three epistles and one
Gospel, although many scholars believe that the final editing of the
Gospel was done by others shortly after his death. He is also
supposed by many to be the author of the book of Revelation, also
called the Apocalypse, although this identification is less certain.
For a discussion of the authorship of the Gospel of John, send the
messages GET JOHN PART1 and GET JOHN PART2 to
LISTSERV@ASUACAD.BITNET or LISTSERV@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU.

PRAYER (traditional language)
   Merciful Lord, we beseech thee to cast thy bright beams of
   light upon thy Church, that we, being illumined by the teaching
   of thine apostle and evangelist John, may so walk in the light
   of thy truth, that we may at length attain to the fullness of
   life everlasting; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who liveth and
   reigneth with thee and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and
   ever.

PRAYER (contemporary language)
   Shed upon your Church, O Lord, the brightness
   of your light; that we, being illumined by the teaching of
   your apostle and evangelist John, may so walk in the light of
   your truth, that at length we may attain to the fullness of
   eternal life, through Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and
   reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and
   ever.
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Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 08:06:54 CDT
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      CS LEWIS - UNAUTHORDOX?

Greetings!

I have just finished reading 'Mere Christianity' by CS Lewis and found
it reasonably interesting, although I also found that some of his
arguments and explanations for his ideas to be pretty weak..
I really cant see the point sometimes in trying to 'argue' faith into people.
(wow, hows that for bad grammar)

Something of interest that I read (and frankly baulked at) was his
explanation of the Holy Spirit in relation to the Father and the Son..

'The union between the Father and the Son is such a live concrete thing that
this union itself is also a person'
..
'What grows out of the joint life of the Father and Son is a real Person, it is
in fact the Third of the three Persons who are God'..

(Mere Christianity, Chapter - Good Infection)

I dont know about you, but that seems to be a pretty way off, far out and
just about errornous view of the Holy Spirit. He is not just some wishy washy
manifestation of the Love between the Father and the Son, He is GOD!
CO-EQUAL with the Father and the Son, a person in his own right, not the
result of something. A full sharer in the divine personality..

As a book supposedly pointed towards an introduction to christianity, I find
that explanation either too dificult for my little mind to comprehend, or
otherwise out and out wrong..

Any comments??


---------------------+-------------+-----------------------------------------
Ian Williams         |    _--_|\   |      Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems       |   /      \  |      Phone   : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia  |   \_.--*_/  |
                     |         v   |
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Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:52:50 EST
From:         "jones, mark" <JMJONES@UGA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Operation Pest.

Hey Marissa and all..
Just a quick observation that comes from the heart.

Ive never been much of an Op Rescue fan, and that is beside the
point now.

about 8 or 9 months ago I watched on a sonagram screen as this modern
technological wonder probed my wife's uterus. Finally, the screen landed
on a small white dot about the size of a butterbean. The close-up revealed
its little heart beating 90 miles an hour. Now that same little heart powers
the vibrant little life that I hold in my arms day by day and that cracks up
when her silly old dad does a James Brown shuffle while changing her diaper.
I regularly remember that butterbean, and brokenheartedly I wonder :how can
they say its not a real life, and kill it? This society's conscience has truly
been seared with a hot iron. 'Nuff said, just some heartfelt thoughts....Mark
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Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 12:20:11 GMT
From:         AE Panagos <sggp999@SGHMS.LON.AC.UK>
Subject:      Happy Christmas

Dear People,
        Hello and how are you ? I've just joined this lovely list so I'm
a bit in the dark about what everyone is talking about. I know it won't be
long before I'll be joining in with the fun. I just thought I'd introduce
my self, say hi and wish everyone a great christmas.
        I remember reading an article back home (home is Australia, I'm
living in England at the moment, some details are in or will be in pbi.bios)
, that Christmas is the period of the higest rate of suicide. When people
start to feel the loneliness of broken families, of those without families.
People with out homes. It is such a sad time for so many people. This world
has destroyed something that is so close to God's heart and that is the
family. Satan is a liar, a thief and a murderer. He has stolen so much from
so many people, and has blinded them from seeing the only One who can give
them the real joy and love they crave for, Jesus.
        I just pray that God's love will be so manifested in your lives and
families at this time and everytime, and if you are lonely and hurting that
you reach out to Jesus and let Him wrap His loving arms around you and flood
you with His peace and love.
In His Service
Andrew Panagos          sggp999@uk.ac.lon.sghms.sun1
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Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 11:20:27 -0600
From:         jim coen <coen@ACC.WUACC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Happy Christmas

Andrew Panagos,
    Welcome to the CHRISTIA list. I am fairly new myself, but it is clear to
me that many of the subscribers are genuine Christians who have a love for
the Lord. You may find that not all who post to this list exhibit the love
of Jesus, so please don't get discouraged. I could tell by the tone of your
letter that for you, it is genuine! Welcome!

    God bless you and all during this CHRISTmas season.

coen@acc.wuacc.edu
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Original_To:  BITNET%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:12:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Gay Civil Rights

<        It seems to me that they are demanding we recognize them based on
<their sexual orientation.  Since I don't know of any other group that
<is recognized based on this, this sounds like a demand for special rights
<to me.  Sorry, my teeth aren't yellow.

Legal marriage is explicitly limited to heterosexuals.  In other words, it is
the heterosexuals who are granted special rights under the present system.

<}                3) Jews also enjoy high income, high educational status, and
<}           high professional status  in  this country--far higher  than  the
<}           "average" citizen--so do Asians.  Does this mean it is then ok to
<}           discriminate against a Jew or an Asian just because he  is  a Jew
<}           or Asian??
<        Of course not.  I think the person's point (which I haven't really
<thougth about) was a sort of an empirical "as a class, they obviously
<aren't discriminated against since they have a high income, etc."

Would you then argue that Jews aren't discriminated against on the grounds that
they have a high income, etc?

Dan
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Organization: Virginia Department of Health
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:08:42 EST
From:         "Michael A. Kline" <MKLINE@VDH.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Operation Pest.

On Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:52:50 EST jones, mark said:
>Hey Marissa and all..
>I regularly remember that butterbean, and brokenheartedly I wonder :how can
>they say its not a real life, and kill it? This society's conscience has truly
>been seared with a hot iron. 'Nuff said, just some heartfelt thoughts....Mark

From a card we just received recently.

There is a picture of the manger scene. The star is up above, but the
streams of light from the star have names on them like "Bianca, Montrel,
Noah, Kaityn, Erica, Chanel, Cierra, Ariel, Donna, Angelina, Ricardo,
Aaron, Kimberly, Kara, Peter, Zachary, Tamika, Justin, Christina, Dimitri,
Elizabeth, Andrew, Estelle, Haley, Nichole, Matthew, Charles, Daequan,
Genita, Keira, Stephanie, Keyana, Joshua, Tyler, Desiree, Amoni, Jaquita,
Sebastian, Peter, Shanna, Ahmad, Anthony, Emily, Anthony.

The front caption reads: "Through Him all things were made, without Him
                          nothing was made that has been made. In Him
                          was life and that life was the light of men.
                          The light shines in the darkness, but the
                          darkness, but the darkness has not understood
                          it."  John 1:3,4

The Inside reads: May God bless you for your concern for lives - those yet
                  to be born, the newly born, and their families.

                  We especially thank you on behalf of all the new little
                  "lights" that brighten this world because you care.

And in case you haven't guessed, it's signed by:
                  Crisis Pregnancy Center of Metropolitan Richmond.

The names are those "fetuses" that were not aborted after talking to a
CPC councilor, my wife being one of them. So some of those names are
alive today because of the work she did. Praise God!

Yet there are so many whose name will never appear on one of these cards
because a child was too inconvenient. Lord, have mercy...

Maks.
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Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 13:16:52 EST
From:         "SHELBY A. CROSS" <LIBSAC@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      RE:HAPPY CHRISTMAS-ANDREW

Dear Andrew,

I enjoyed your post and welcome you to Christia.  Truly this list has been
a blessing to me and I hope you enjoy posting to it.  Thank you for your
Christmas message and may God bless you and you have a Merry Christmas and
a blessed and prosperous New Year.

Your sister in Christ,

Shelby
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Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:02:41 EST
From:         "jones, mark" <JMJONES@UGA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Operation Pest.
              22 Dec 1992 12:48:00 CST from <RussN@SSECMAIL.SSEC.WISC.EDU>

Hey Russ,
Thanks for sharing! Russ, I tell you, as a well seasoned old timer
father for 11 weeks, I can truthfully say that there is nothing like
it. People may think I am cornball, or more sensitive than a "real man"
should be, but thats ok! Dont you feel bad about the ecstasy you
feel about this little life that God has given you two! Every night when
I get home from work, I go spend a few minutes with my little Stacia Kaleigh
and she now welcomes me home with a big smile and laughs aloud! She is
Daddy's girl and I love it! I still have to choke back tears regularly when
she gives me that trusting little look and lays her head over on my shoulder
for me to cuddle her.

One thing that really meant the world to me: My wife had a C-section. It was
planned, and she had an epidural and was awake the whole time. I was in the
O/R with her. Well, when they lifted our daughter out of her womb, they cleaned
her up, checked her over and handed her to me, and said "come on Dad!" I got
to spend the first two or three hours of her life talking to her, rubbing her
back and legs and just bonding with her. I was sorry that my wife was not there
but I would not have traded this time for a million dollars! From that day
forward, I have purposed in my heart that I would be a get-involved Dad in
everything! None of this leaving it up to Mom. She is truly a wonderful Mom,
but I think that two parents working together to love and nurture, each
providing a unique touch that the other cannot, is Gods best. Im certainly
not trying to by Quayleish and put down the single parent. God bless these
brave and noble souls! But Im not going to stand idly by and let my little gal
grow up without me! She needs her Dad and her Mom and thats what she's gonna
get every day of her life!

Russ, ENJOY! Im excited for you! Please report regularly. We will be
praying. Will ya'll want to know sex from the sonogram? We knew, and Im
It sounds like you are going to be a wonderful Dad, Russ. Just trust God,
Any other babies expected out there in Christia land?
I am finding that He is teaching me everything I need day by day!
definitely get all soppy over the babies! God Bless you all......Mark
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Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 08:57:07 -0600
From:         jim coen <coen@ACC.WUACC.EDU>
Subject: Re: LET'S LOVE AGAIN...

Shelby,
    I share your concern regarding the tone of *some* of the messages found
on CHRISTIA. Please never forget that the Lord spoke of "wheat & tares" growing
together, and that they would not be separated until the harvest of the earth.
Anytime you have a public forum (even a "Christian" public forum), some tares
may (probably will) slip in. Look for the good in what CHRISTIA has to offer
and pray for those who don't yet know the love of the Lord Jesus. In a forum
such as CHRISTIA, it is inevitable that there will be those whose purpose is
to challenge, argue, ridicule, accuse, and generally stir up strife. If we
remember the words of the Lord ("if they hate Me they will also hate you"),
it gives us understanding into why there will always be those antagonistic to
your values and beliefs.

Be strong and take courage. Keep looking UP!

Jim Coen
coen@acc.wuacc.edu
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Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 09:55:00 EST
From:         "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>
Subject: Re: Christian nation.

Zane,

The issue of "Christian nation" is not just semantics.  See many of the
Middle Eastern countries where the religion has taken over the country.
The countries are not followers of Islam, the people are, but the people
THINK their nations are Islamic, so they create a religious dictatorship to
make it so.

Many of the Christians in the United States would welcome no less of a
dictatorship than may be found in Iraq or Saudi Arabia.  The difference
being they would want Christian values enforced instead of Islamic ones.

Yes, there is a Christian nation, it is the church, but it has no temporal
authority.  The most heinous crimes of history have been committed because
Christians attempted to rule using Christian values.  The tragedy is that
what they thought to be Christian values, usually weren't.

We don't need Christian nations, we don't need safe environments for our
children, we don't need countries where Christians have rights, we need to
have the personal goal of spreading the gospel, nothing else.

People are so worried about the environment in which their children are
raised, history and the Bible both show clearly that a wicked society is
the BEST place to raise a devout child, not one where evil is squealched.
That may seem contradictory, but it is true.

I most definitely do not want Christian values, whatever they are, imposed
on the nation.  The United States started out with laws attempting to
enforce some "Christian values" and it got them nowhere.  It was once
illegal to ride a horse more than a few miles on Sunday.  Who on earth, or
heaven, gave anyone the right to form such a stupid law.  The law was meant
to enfoorce keeping of the "Sabbath."  Not only should that be a personal
choice, Paul says in Romans 14 that it is not a matter for judging in any
manner.

Thus, we come to the core of the problem.  People who want this country to
be a "christian nation," generally want it ordered after Old Covenant laws,
specifically, the Ten Commandments.  In 2 Cor. 3, Paul calls the Ten
commandments a "ministry of death."  I don't want any country where I
live ruled by a ministry of death.

Whether the founding fathers of the United States intended the country to
be a Christian nation or not is irrelevant.  Most of them were not in any
way Christians, regardless of their claims, and their desires mean nothing.
 The same Declaration of Independance that names the Creator refers to the
Native Americans as "merciless savages."  The same constitution that grants
freedoms to "all" allows the practice of slavery, it took a horrid war to
solve that one.

It was a "Christian" administration that send thousands of Cherokee Indians
on the "Trail of Tears," where 90% of them died.  No, the United States is
not a Christian nation, and who cares if it is or not.  I am interested in
Christian people, not Christian nations.

Dan Graham
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Date:         Sat, 26 Dec 1992 17:52:15 EST
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      The WItness Days (addendum)

THE WITNESS DAYS (addendum)

On January 1st, we celebrate the Circumcision of Christ. Since we
are more squeamish than our ancestors, modern calendars often list
it as the feast of the Holy Name of Jesus, but the other emphasis is
the older.  Every Jewish boy was circumcised (and formally named) on
the eighth day of his life, and so, one week after Christmas, we
celebrate the occasion when Our Lord first shed His blood for us. It
is a fit close for a week of martyrs, and reminds us that to suffer
for Christ is to suffer with Him.
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