HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: American Bashing
Date: 28 Sep 92 10:26:54 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland
In-reply-to: downey@enh.nist.gov's message of 25 Sep 92 18:06:38 GMT

In article <25SEP92.14063820@enh.nist.gov> downey@enh.nist.gov writes:

   As an American, it is difficult for me to understand why anyone
   would be embarassed about nationalism.  Many Americans are very
   patriotic; it is part of our culture.  We do cherish our freedom,
   especially our freedom of speech.  I agree with Suzanne, standing
   up for what you believe in is a fundamental in American society.

Patriotism in Western Europe used to be associated with Empires and
consequently with murder, rape, looting in the third world.  People don't
like that sort of thing any more, so they often feel embarrassed to be overly
patriotic about their country.  To European eyes, a very patriotic American
seems to automatically approve of all the despicable things the USA has done
to some other nations.  I doubt that's true of many Americans, but it can
easily look that way from outside.

(This only applies to patriotism and nationalism for nations which were
around and active in colonial times; people feel freer to strongly support
the new nations and the nations yet to come, I think.  Less negative
associations.)

--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
From: ah@dunaad.co.uk (Alan Hunter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: survival of Celtic languages
Date: 4 Oct 92 18:44:11 GMT
Organization: Johnson Hunter Limited

In article <1992Oct4.165129.22419@rdg.dec.com> cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn) writes:
>
>For Scotland, the proportion is 1.72%, however this is set to increase
>as there is a very strong revival of the language, particularly amongst
>the playgroup age and young adults. It is planned to increase the number
>of speakers by 50% in 10 years. A tall order!

My elder daughter, 13, was presented with the choice of French or Gaelic
on entering the third year, both languages could not be taken.  The option
has been restored this year after a significan protest. She took French, as
most people intereste in languages rather than culture would (but still
got the best Gaelic mark in her age group at the Islay mod (sorry but
daddies ten to be proud:-))).

>Gaidhlig medium playgroups have been very sucessful and have lead to
>a demand for Gaidhlig medium primary schools as the children work their
>way through the educational systems. The Gaelic playgroups movement
>is now 10 years old, and there are approx 100 of them in Scotland.
>

What's extraordinary about the gaelic unit (at Bowmore primary here) is
the number of English white settlers who want to put their kids into it. I
believe this has to do with commitment in the unit rather than the Gaelic.
Nevertheless it all helps. What's bad is that, in Bowmore primary, only
kids from the gaelic unit are going to the national mod, irrespective of
ability and achievement. That is, IMHO, stupid and doesn't help.  On the
other hand Port Ellen primary, on the south on the Island, with my younger
daughter and an English speaking school will (I am certain) win the action
song for the second year running:-)

Alan
(A white settler but committed to decentralisation and devolution)

-- 
Alan Hunter
Johnson Hunter Ltd
Isle of Islay, Scotland
A.Hunter@dunaad.co.uk          fax: +44-496-2336         voice: +44-496-2286
From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Nationalism - or Why do people have flags in their gardens?
Date: 5 Oct 92 12:03:37 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

ulick@gershwin.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) writes:

>In article <2OCT92.20305349@skyfox.usask.ca> misra@skyfox.usask.ca writes:
>>>
>>Considering that the raison d'etre of the Orange Order is sectarian, I 
>>sincerely doubt Gary's assertion that southern Orangemen don't sing sectarian
>>songs. I wonder if Gary's ever read the charter of the Orange Order? It exists
>>solely to re-establish a protestant hegemony over "papists". It is a purely
>>sectarian organization (don't believe me? try joining). For someone who has 
>>repeatedly pilloried the GAA as being sectarian, it surprises me to hear
>>Gary Spain portray Orangemen as some sort of benevolent cultural group.

Have I missed a posting or something? (Probably!!)

>Really?  Anyone who has read this group for a while would hardly be surprised.
>Gary attempts to hide his anglophilic side by having a seemingly unnatural
>hatred for the English International soccer team, which of course, he insists
>on calling Football with a rather venomous zeal. 

[Personal invective directed at Gary Spain deleted]

Given that about the only people on this earth who refer to football as 'soccer'
are Americans, your creating a straw man Ullick. It's football in just about
every European country as well as South American countries.
But then, you're currently residing in the US, so soccer *must* be the right
term and football is just a nasty British imperialist term. Right?

>myself at one time.  Why must we always put ourselves down?

It's a Celtic trait :-)

Dave
--
From: niall@nmsu.edu (Niall Graham)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: But I like Television Evangelists
Date: 30 Sep 92 04:30:39 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Computing Research Lab


Telvision evangalist spotting has been a hobby of mine for years.
They are an entertaining spectacle, particularly when they perform
phony miracles, and the like.  My favorite recolection is of a
foaming-at-the-mouth speech made by Jimmy Swaggart (before he
was photographed leaving a brothel, the first time) on the blasphemy
of Cliff Richard for singing religious pop songs. His diatribe lasted
at least half an hour. (This appeared on a cable channel in Austin in
Spring 1987.)  
I've also watched preachers on "religious" channels here in the past
ranting about the EC being some ten-headed monster of the Apocalypse.
Now they've apparantly moved on to attack the EC flag.  According to
the preacher across the room (on tv as I type) the people of Europe
are being brain-washed by their new emblem.  Apparantly, the twelve
stars are a deception by the Beast (so that we won't notice that they
are a metaphorical ten).  The twelve stars are showing up in Europe on
mugs, car-stickers, chocolates etc to brain-wash us all.  I think the
game is: List all things that come in twelves.  The Twelve Apostles
are mentioned with attendant ineffable logic; I'm surprised eggs were
overlooked.  Anyway, it has to be seen to be believed. And I think
these madmen deserve all the flack they get.  

How a target so suited to flippant commentary has become an excuse for
the usual tedious tribal tennis we've all grown to endure here is ...
no mystery.  Net.know-it-alls have, as usual, succeeded in putting the
rest of us to sleep by turning an innocuous subject into a most boring
one.  Enough is enough.

Don't ya love these group therapy sessions!

--
Niall Graham          "Patriotism is the virture of the vicious"
Los Alamos                                            Oscar Wilde
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Learning The Gaelic Language
From: Aengus Lawlor <RBYAML@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 12:01:42 EDT
Organization: Rohm and Haas Company


In article <1992Sep25.150532.17700@unislc.uucp>, couch@unislc.uucp (Keith Couch)
says:
>"newt" made mention in a previous post about a magazine called
>"GAELIC-L" - I would like to obtain their address. Can anyone help me?
GAELIC-L is an e-mail mailing list, with discussions carried on in e-mail.
Craig Cockburn posted details on how to subscribe in the last couple of
weeks, and I'm sure he'll be happy to help you out there.
>
>I am planning a three week holiday to Ireland in July of 1993 and I
>would like to find cassette tapes which would help me to learn enough
>Gaelic to be a good tourist.
You already know enought Gaelic to be a good tourist (none at all!).
Seriously, Irish is not required in any part of Ireland, (which is both
fortunate and unfortunate, but that's a different debate) and it's
quite likely that attempts to use Irish could cause embarrassment for
yourself and/or your host. Some people have very negative attitudes to
Irish, some people are embarrassed at having lost what Irish they learnt
at school, some poeple consider Irish to have unacceptable political
overtones, and some people may just find it patronising.

NOTE WELL: You are also likely to find people who would be more than happy
to speak Irish with you, and who would be more than happy to help you
learn more of the language. But if you walk into a shop and try to buy
something "as Gaeilge", you are likley to be looked at as though you had
two heads.
>
>I have found very little information here in the States. Any help from
>those of you with direct knowledge would be appreciated.
>
>Thank you.
>
I'm sorry if this sounds negative, but it would be a shame if you were to
spend some time preparing in this way, and be disappointed when you got
to Ireland. If you are primarily interested in visiting Ireland for the
purpose of learning the language, I believe groups like Gael Linn do run
run summer schools for adults.
>
>-----
>Keith Couch                                     (801) 594-6088
>Unisys Corporation                              couch@unislc.slc.unisys.com
Aengus
--
RBYAML@ROHMHAAS.COM                    Aengus Lawlor
RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET                   (who used to be ALAWLOR@DIT.IE)
"How about some of that famous Dublin wit, Barman?"
"Certainly, sir. Would that be Dry or Sparkling?"
From: gmc10@outs.ccc.amdahl.com (  911  Ger Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: GPA - what does it stand for?
Date: 28 Sep 92 15:43:24 GMT
Reply-To: gmc10@OUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (  911  Ger Cooke)
Distribution: soc
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Dublin, Republic Of Ireland.

In article <1992Sep24.185336.25830@math.ucla.edu> alex@luna.math.ucla.edu (Alex Langley) writes:
>In article <PMURPHY.92Sep21105008@macabre.cv.nrao.edu> pmurphy@nrao.edu (Pat Murphy) writes:
>>Some of you are familiar with the excellent "Irish Emmigrant" e-mail
>>newsletter that originates from Liam Ferrie in Galway.  Freqently I
>>see references in these news summaries to a company called "GPA".  I
>>think it has something to do with Aer Lingus but I'm not sure.  Can
>>anyone out there tell me what it stands for and what it is?  [I don't
>>remember it from when I lived in Dublin...]
>>
>>Thanks in advance,
>>				- Pat
>>--
>According to Mi/le Ceist Quizleabhar, GPA stands for Guiness Peat Aviation.
>
>Sla/n.
>
>Alex Langley
>alex@math.ucla.edu

Actually, its Guinness Peat Aviation and it is the largest aircraft
                  =
leasing company in the world, based in Shannon in Co. Clare. Aer Lingus

own a small share but nothing major.
  ,

Slan,

Ger...
From: spain@galvia.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: US Aid to Northern Ireland?
Date: 28 Sep 92 15:21:13 GMT
Reply-To: spain@galvia.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

--
In article <1992Sep28.140845.3381@samba.oit.unc.edu>, hughes@physics.unc.edu (W. Christopher Hughes) writes:

|>This of course raised two questions in my mind.  First, shouldn't he have
|>really said foreign aid to the UK or did the US senate give money to Noraid
|>while no one was watching?  Second, I know that many US citizens give 
|>"foreign aid" to the north, but does the US governement really do that?

No, the aid is specifically for Northern Ireland.  Part of it was agreed
under the Anglo Irish agreement.  I really very much doubt if the U.S.
government would give money to Noraid.

The government aid is for jobs programmes, cultural centres etc.  Noraid
are totally different.  I hope this isn't another attempt to restart the
Northern Ireland debate.  Things have been quite peaceful here on that front.

       Gary Spain, DEC, Galway, Ireland   - spain@galvia.enet.dec.com

  On being a football fan: "I am aware of the downside to this wonderful 
  facility that men have: they become repressed, they fail in their 
  relationships with women,their conversation is trivial and boorish, they 
  find themselves unable to express their emotional needs, they cannot relate
  to their children, and die lonely and miserable. But you know, what the hell?"
								   Nick Hornby
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: If the Scotts want to be rid of the Iron Masters....
Date: 28 Sep 92 10:32:43 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland
In-reply-to: davidson@ccrs.emr.ca's message of 26 Sep 92 01:53:43 GMT

In article <1992Sep26.015343.20953@emr1.emr.ca> davidson@ccrs.emr.ca (David Davidson) writes:

   A leason could be taken from the French Canadian nationalists.  The
   hardcore that were formed in the universities in the 1960s, went on to
   provincial geovernent jobs in the 1970s. In the educations ministries all
   of a sudden textbooks began taking on a decidedly one-sided interpretation
   of history. A brilliant strategy. The university students of today are now
   a crop ready to be harvested. I dont see why the Scots cant do the same
   thing.

Apparently youth recruitment to the Labour Party in Scotland is now almost
non-existent compared to what it was ten years ago.  The young tend to be far
more supportive of independence and of the SNP than middle-aged or older
people, and the SNP has lots of youth members.  School opinion polls in some
parts of Scotland during the last election campaign showed remarkable support
(90%+) for the SNP.  Presumably all this has a good chance of working its way
through the system as people get older.

Facts and rumours probably courtesy of "The Scotsman" and "Scotland on
Sunday", so they may be exaggerated...
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)

		
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: pat@cs.cornell.edu
Subject: Re: The IRISH EMIGRANT
Reply-To: pat@cs.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University Computer Science Department
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:57:16 GMT


>For those of the you in the U.S.A. (and perhaps Canada), requests
>to be added to the distribution, or notification of change of
>address should be sent to:         
>
>                     irish-net-REQUEST@cs.cornell.edu
>
>

Actually, all request anywhere in the world from people OUTSIDE
Digital should go to the above address.  If you are *inside* Digital,
then contact Liam directly - ferrie@macnas.enet.dec.com.

Pat
From: mike@inti.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Relevance
Date: 30 Sep 1992 20:50:57 GMT
Organization: N.I.C.E.
Reply-To: mike@inti.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.82

Giles Sutherland writes:
>I would concur with your view.  So, what's to be done about it?

I suggest some of these --
o don't "follow-up" to them
o ignore them
o put their headers in your kill file
o mail the article back to the poster & tell the poster why you
     don't like it

-- in about that order.
From: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Culture Death (was BASH! BASH! BASH!)
Date: 2 Oct 92 14:01:13 GMT
Reply-To: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <1992Oct1.213054.20377@news.clarkson.edu> walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,) writes:
>From article <23161@optima.cs.arizona.edu>, by gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell):
>> . . . . . . . . . . .if a country is unable to keep its own culture alive
>> then it shouldn't blame others for its failure... 

>However, after about 1984 I started
>noticing a lot more stuff (when I would return), and inparticular, more
>books and music tapes. Now we have all of Gibbon's books being reissued
>along with all of Gunn's books. I can also find a plethora of "bothy
>song music" now, in addition to music by Ossian, Battlefield Band, etc.
>
>Has anyone elso noticed this or do I just notice it because of extended
>absences. If it is a "real effect" what has spurred this interest in
>scottish culture (is it all the Tory victories)? 

It's a real resurgance, thankfully, and I think the Tories have had a 
lot to do with it.


Also, prior to about
>1984 many history books that would go up to the present (e.g. No Gods
>and Precious Few Heros) were very pessimistic(sp) about the future of
>scottish culture.

See Polygon Press for lots of interesting titles.

Chris Cooke ( a regular poster here) had just lent me :Towards
Independance" by Paul Scott, which he says persuaded him to support the
SNP, and I am supposed to be lending him ( exepct I keep forgetting)
"The Manufacture of Scottish History" by the same publishers.



Other interesting titles are :

The Eclipse of Scottish Culture - Beveridge and Turnbull
A Claim of Right for Scotland   - Dudley Edwards et al.




There are lots of titles being published now, in literature, politics
and history and many being re-issued.


cheers

M

--
Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
	Thanksgiving For a National Victory (Robert Burns)
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for murther.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: davidson@ccrs.emr.ca (David Davidson)
Subject: Highly recommended Celtic silversmith
Organization: Canada Centre for Remote Sensing, Ottawa
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 01:40:45 GMT

To those who admire jewelry, I can highly recommend Kinsale Silver, Kinsale,
Co. Cork. Patrick Dolan and his sons hand wrought and forge silver jewelry
in Celtic designs. 

Patrick was originally a sculptor, and it is obvious in his work as nothing
is cast, everyone of his intricate works is cut by hand. I have an interest
in the working of metal, and everywhere I travel I look for a smithy. I can
say I have never seen contemporary work as fine as his.

He will accept mail orders (avoids the VAT) and can make something from a 
sketch. He has pins, broaches, bands etc., however my favorite are his
rings which are set with a stone, and the back is formed of knot work.

The above address will get a letter to him, or his store is right in the
centre of town, and his phone # is (021) 774359. 
David
From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Nationalism - or Why do people have flags in their gardens?
Date: 29 Sep 92 14:57:56 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

spain@galvia.enet.dec.com () writes:

>--
>In article <1992Sep28.135828.2962@samba.oit.unc.edu>, hughes@physics.unc.edu (W. Christopher Hughes) writes:

>|>I was traveling between Donegal and Mayo on the 12th of July in 1991
>|>and saw a large group of people with sashes following a Union Jack.
>|>However, in Mayo I also saw quite a few homes, pubs, and businesses
>|>flying either the tricolor or the papal flag.
>|>
>|>Of course, Ireland during marching season isn't quite like the rest
>|>of the world.

>You obviously came upon one of the few Orange marches in the Republic.

Someone tell me Garry is having a wee joke here!

Orange marches in the Republic??


Dave

--
From: shazam@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Cliff Richard
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:44:32 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

Maybe I did not make myself clear.  Cliff Richard did not have any
popular hits other than Devil Women in AMERICA that i know of.
That song WAS recorded and released in  AMERICA a couple of decades
ago...it was in the 70's.  As far as what he has done in other countries, 
I do not know.  If he had any Christian music released in the USA, I 
had not heard it.  

I did NOT say that he was not a Christian....I did NOT say he had never
released any Christian music.  You may wish to read my posting again,
unless I mistook your note for a bit of sarcasium.  If I did, then
I apologize.  *smile*

I would have to either hear him say he was not a Christian or sit
down with him and talk to him about it before I could say that
ANYONE is not a Christian.  As far as Cliff Richard's music goes,
I figure you must mean he has been on the Christian music charts 
for 30 years, because I know he has not been on the pop charts for
that long, neither in the USA or in any other country from what 
I have read.  I would not think he had been on the rock charts, or
the country charts, or the blues, jazz, or soul charts.....I could be
wrong.  *smile*

Another note, whether it be wrong or right, I usually say America
meaning the USA.  I am sorry if this has disturbed any of you.
It was not meant in a rude or ugly manner.  It does not indicate
that I believe that the USA is the only country in North America.
I should not have to explain this, but seems soem people, at least a 
few, think I should.  *smile*

Did all of this about Cliff Richard's come up because he is from Ireland
or Scotland?  Or just because the topic was, as usaual turned to
the religious aspects of America?  If you want to define it as such.
*smile*

Have a nice day....

Suzanne

Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: eamon@netcom.com (Charles E Taggart)
Subject: Re: European superiority
Summary: This doesn't belong here
Keywords: british
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 20:04:20 GMT

As this has absolutely nothing to do with Celtic culture (and, as
unbelievable as it might sound, there =are= people who read this newsgroup
looking for articles about Celtic culture), please take this to
soc,culture.british and/or soc.culture.usa where it belongs.



-- 
          ,                                          
  Charles Eamon Taggart   | "Time and space are playing games with people 
     eamon@netcom.com     |  who don't understand / You can't talk about
   eamont@well.sf.ca.us   |  the weather when you've killed the weatherman."
 Santa Monica, California |                      -- Toasted Heretic
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Scottish Newsgroup
Date: 5 Oct 92 12:06:29 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

bj00+@andrew.cmu.edu (Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell) writes:

>Of Craig's list, three items touch on things I've been meaning to ask about:

>What is Irn Bru?

A soft fizzy drink made from girders.
Don't go too near magnetic field if you've had a glass of this stuff.

Dave

--
From: mike@biosun.lbl.gov (Mike Collier)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Celtic Holidays
Date: 3 Oct 1992 07:10:54 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley
Distribution: world
Reply-To: mike@biosun.lbl.gov (Mike Collier)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.253.249
Keywords: Celtic, holidays

In article <gT1sRB4w165w@bluemoon.rn.com> papageno@bluemoon.rn.com (Andrew Armstrong) writes:
>
>  I am relatively new to this newsgroup.  I have only been reading it for 
>a few months now.  But in this time, I have seen little discussion about 
>Celtic holidays.  I would appreciate it if someone could make a list of 
>magor holidays, their signifigance, and how they are observed.  I am very 
>interested in learning more about the Celtic culture.  The holidays can be 
>pagan, Christian, national, regional, etc.
>

	You may have been given this info by personal e-mail but I think it's
worth posting.  The arguably best book for Irish holidays is THE YEAR IN
IRELAND--Irish Calendar Custom by Kevin Danaher.  I believe it's published by
Mercier Press, Dublin and Cork.  Unfortunately my copy is out on loan, so I'm
not positive.  Kevin quotes from many observers of Irish holidays about the
activities associated with each of them.  These reports are from diaries, 
letters, newspaper articles, and books over the last 400 years or so.

	I think the book is still available although it's 15 or more years old.

	Good luck.  This can be a long but very enjoyable pursuit.

						Sla/n anois,
						Michael Collier
						jmcollier@lbl.gov