HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: macko@pilot.njin.net (Peter C. Macko)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: U.S. students poor performance in math/scienc
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:09:52 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


  ikg1591@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Irina Kosinovsky ) replies:

>So you think "clocks being the fastest" is allright? :)

  No. :)

>Seriously, it just one of the anti-soviet jokes as well as
>"soviet sick people are the sickest people in the world"
>or
>"soviet calculators are the largest calculators..." etc.

  I've heard these before.  But when did they start?  What
is it about Soviet society that caused all this to occur?
The disparity between government propaganda and reality?
Having spent my life in the states I can't say that I
totally understand the root causes of such a mentality.  
But I have noticed that Soviet immigrants tended to be very
paranoid (from an American perspective) and often
pessimistic.  I remember showing one visiting Russian a 
supermarket.  This gentleman couldn't believe his eyes
and thought it was a CIA plot.  Neither did he initially
believe me when I said that he could buy whatever he wanted. 
I had to take him to other supermarkets in order to prove to
him that it wasn't a place specifically designed to be
shown to Sovoks like him.  As I said, having never been there
I can only wonder at a system that creates such a mentality
among its citizens.

				-PCM
-- 

  Peter C. Macko                      Internet: macko@pilot.njin.net
  LCSR/Network Research                         macko@cs.rutgers.edu
  Telecommunications/Network Services     UUCP: {backbone}!rutgers!cs!macko
  Rutgers Computing Services,  Rutgers University (Piscataway, NJ)   
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:8561 rec.arts.movies:29967 rec.arts.books:18153
From: zeleny@husc9.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,rec.arts.movies,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Movies
Date: 11 Oct 92 13:13:00 GMT
Organization: The Phallogocentric Cabal

In article <84600001@glas.apc.org> 
Patricia Schwartz <margaret@glas.apc.org> writes:

>I saw this movie also (The Inner Circle") and I really liked it.
>
>After reading "Manuscripts Don't Burn," the collection of diaries
>and letters of Bulgakov and his thrid wife (including the ones which he
>burned in 1926 but were "rescued" by the KGB archives in 1989), I
>have a negative attitude towards Stanislavsky as a human being.
>
>But as for his "method", Al Pacino and I think Dusitn Hoffman, and
>certainly Marlon Brando in his golden years are or were using
>his techniques without such problems going to the bathroom.

It is said that during the filming of _Marathon Man_, Sir Lawrence Olivier
observed Dustin Hoffmann getting himself psyched up for their "dentist from
Auschwitz" scene, during which his character was to be interrogated with
the aid of a drill.  Hearing his blood-curdling screams, and watching his
frenetic runabout across the set, Olivier asked the director whether his
young colleague was having a mental breakdown.  Upon being informed that
Hoffmann was merely preparing himself for the movie torture session,
Olivier raised his brows, and muttered quizzically: "Can't he just act?"

>I went to Bulgakov's grave in Novodevichy. He is rather near Stanislavsky
>and Nemirovich-Damchenko. In the above book, I get the impression
>that he would be very unhappy with this placement.
>
>By the way, I recommend the above book as being to best thing in
>English about Bulgakov. Especially the chronicle of his last years
>while writing M&M and also finally sinking to do this awful
>Stalin play, during the purges.
>
>Maybe tomorrow I'll bring him some flowers.
>
>But not yellow ones!
>

Yellow might just be the right color, all things considered.

Save the red ones for Erofeev.

cordially,
mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
"Nous donnons la mort, nous saurons la subir."
From: vadim@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: death and feminism
Date: 14 Oct 92 23:42:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: ohstpy.14243.2adc781b

In article <1992Oct13.180712.1@acad3.alaska.edu>, ftsam@acad3.alaska.edu (Sergei Maurits) writes:
 
> Dzhentel'meny, na pravax byvshego sootechestvennika ne mogu ne zametit',
> chto vam zhloba iz sebya nado ne davit' po kaple, a cherpat' vedrami.
> Esli o prisutstvuschei dame govoryat "ona", to razgovor proishodit v 
> dvornitskoj.  
> 
> -Serega, AK

  Ty ne dalek ot istiny,Serega. Tolko dvornitskaya - slishkom myagkoye
sravnenie dlya etogo lista. Eto nechto tipa konyushni,gde nekotorie
(Ne budem govorit kto,hotya vse znayut chto eto ...) sootechestvenniki
kak pravilo gur'boy nabrasivayutsya na odnogo (obychno vnov' pribyvshego)
cheloveka (e.g. Patricia) i nachinayut sorevnovatsya v ostroumii.
Tselyu , vozmozhno , yavlyaetsya izmazyvanie navozom, chtoby ne otlichalsya.
Byvayut i zdes chestnie lyudi (lyudi chesti) no ne vse iz nih vyzhivayut v
etom derme (e.g. M.Markish) i propadayut navsegda. Take care. Vadim.
From: muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: death and feminism
Date: 14 Oct 1992 01:30:28 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Oct13.201804.16362@husc3.harvard.edu> verbit@coolidge.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) writes:
>
>And lick their genitalia. There are always people who want
>to oppress somebody's will and deprave others
>of self-respect. 

If by self-respect you mean calling names "nalevo i napravo", then I would
gladly opress that, preferably with something heavy enough. 

Damn, can you discuss something if not without calling names, then
at least with some other arguments? 

Or,boy, I just noticed: ".harvard.edu",

Voprosov bol'she ne imeju.

Poka,

Yury
From: zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Movies
Date: 12 Oct 92 03:39:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Oct11.233939.16301
Organization: The Phallogocentric Cabal

In article <1992Oct12.014141.10480@dxcern.cern.ch> 
GLL@fnal.fnal.gov (Gregory Landsberg) writes:

>In <1992Oct11.091301.16271@husc3.harvard.edu>
>zeleny@husc9.harvard.edu writes:

>>In article <84600001@glas.apc.org>
>>Patricia Schwartz <margaret@glas.apc.org>writes:

PS:
>>>I went to Bulgakov's grave in Novodevichy. He is rather near Stanislavsky
>>>and Nemirovich-Damchenko. In the above book, I get the impression
>>>that he would be very unhappy with this placement.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>Maybe tomorrow I'll bring him some flowers.
>>>
>>>But not yellow ones!

MZ:
>>Yellow might just be the right color, all things considered.
>>
>>Save the red ones for Erofeev.
>>
>>cordially,
>>mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
>>"Nous donnons la mort, nous saurons la subir."

GL:
>Wouldn't you be so kind to enlighten us what makes you think that yellow is
>the right color??? Or you just mixed him with Mandelstam?

Yellow is a color of cowardice, among other things.  At least Mandelshtam
had his moment of glory with "My zhivem, pod soboiu ne chuia strany..."
Bulgakov is a great writer, but also a great coward.

GL:
>As to Venichka, the bottle of vodka  would be much better than red, yellow,
>white or whatever flowers! (I'm not  kidding - the more I'm as serious as I
>never been! :) )

A month ago, I visited the final Montparnasse residences of Serge
Gainsbourg and Charles Baudelaire.  While the former enjoys copious gifts
of personal items, fresh flowers, dedicated pictures, baby toys, stinky
French cigarettes, and assorted bibelots, as well as much stencilled
grafitti, mostly on the walls of his lifetime quarters, his illustrious
predecessor gets only a few personal notes, plus an occasional Havana
cigar.  And, of course, red roses.  Dead red roses.

As for your bottle of vodka, it would do more honor to our hero by passing
into your bloodstream.

>Cheers,
>
>Greg

cordially,
mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
"Nous donnons la mort, nous saurons la subir."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy)
Subject: Liberal Moscow daily attacked by fascist group (UPI)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 19:00:35 GMT
Organization: Be. I am.

Reprinted without permission from 
article <russia-fascistsU2OD1145ae@clarinet.com>
>	MOSCOW (UPI) -- Blackshirted extreme Russian nationalists burst into
>the offices of a leading Moscow daily Tuesday, read out an ultimatum to
>the staff and threatened physical violence unless their demands were
>met.
>	Twenty-five jack-booted members of the extreme right-wing movement
>Pamyat interrupted an editorial planning meeting at the popular daily 
>``Moskovsky Komsomolets,'' and announced the newspaper's days were
>numbered, staff members said.
>	The blackshirts demanded that the paper name authors of articles
>critical of Pamyat and threatened physical violence against the paper's
>staff if their demands were not carried out within three days.
>	``They said, 'Our cup of patience has overflowed, and we can no
>longer tolerate the existence of this Jewish-Masonic newspaper,''' said
>Moskovsky Komsomolets deputy editor Natalya Yefimova.
>	One of Russia's best-loved papers, the former Communist Youth daily
>is famous for its democratic, populist and often risque tone and its
>strong stand against right-wing organizations, which are becoming
>increasingly active as Russia moves painfully toward a market economy
>and social discontent grows.
>	Pamyat, one of Russia's most outspokenly fascist right-wing groups,
>is a key target of the paper. But the movement has fought back, and
>Tuesday's incident was only one in a long line of threats aimed to
>silence the paper.
>	Yefimova said she is troubled by Pamyat's increasingly high profile,
>and the inadequate response of the police.
>	``If 25 people can walk freely into your house and force you to
>listen to their threats for 20 minutes then it's a bad sign for
>democracy,'' she said.
>	The Pamyat members took photographs of Moskovsky Komsomolets staff,
>then left the building in cars waiting for them outside. Police arrived
>on the scene 40 minutes after they were called.

Compare with theaters, street fashions, ice-cream, flowers and petals from our 
exclusive Moscow correspondent Patricia-Margaret.
From: shimkevi@buchmf.bu.edu (Sergey Shimkevich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Solaris - the "freeway sequence"
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:26:43 GMT
Organization: Boston University Chemistry Department

In article <IGOR.92Oct7193216@krishna.cs.columbia.edu> igor@cs.columbia.edu
(Igor Pankevich) writes:

>Interesting. I like this movie for various reasons, but one of them is
>that it "completely distorts Lem's original work". - It is so much
>better! Of corse Lem was mad! He realised what he could have written
>and didn't!

I don't think so. Lem's novel was, pretty much, about the limitations of the
human mind. Tarkovsky's movie is about nostalgia for home (beriozki, trava u
doma, etc).

The only thing Lem could do was to remove the protagonist's mother from the
script (a Mother Earth analogy). Thank God! 

Lem's novel was science fiction at its best. Tarkovsky made it into a
collection of fuzzy allegories.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// Ryan: What is it to you, demon?       //// Sergei Shimkevich             //
// Lune: It is Sir, Demon to you, worm!  //// shimkevi@buchmf.bu.edu        //
// -Phantasy Star III                    //// shimkevich@A1.tch.harvard.edu //
From: ikg1591@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Irina Kosinovsky )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: U.S. students poor performance in math/scienc
Date: 11 Oct 92 15:47:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bvyruu.Mpy
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

macko@pilot.njin.net (Peter C. Macko) writes:


>  verbit@coolidge.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) wrote:

>>About literature everybody probably know :)
>>(usual Soviet propaganda, Soviet people
>>are most reading people in the world etc etc
>>Soviet clocks are fastest and Soviet micro-
>>chips are biggest). There is some truth in this:

>  Did they actually brag about their microchips being
>the "biggest"?  I couldn't help but crack up when
>I heard this one.  Whoever it was that did the bragging
>obviously doesn't know the first thing about chip design.

So you think "clocks being the fastest" is allright? :)

Seriously, it just one of the anti-soviet jokes as well as
"soviet sick people are the sickest people in the world"
or
"soviet calculators are the largest calculators..." etc.
Ira
>			-PCM
>-- 

>  Peter C. Macko                      Internet: macko@pilot.njin.net
>  LCSR/Network Research                         macko@cs.rutgers.edu
>  Telecommunications/Network Services     UUCP: {backbone}!rutgers!cs!macko
>  Rutgers Computing Services,  Rutgers University (Piscataway, NJ)
From: alpet@ocf.berkeley.edu (Alex Petrushko)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: New language--immigrantish...
Date: 13 Oct 1992 18:34:00 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: tempest.berkeley.edu

In article <1bf39tINNrmu@rodan.UU.NET> avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim Antonov) writes:
>In article <Bw16oJ.Juy@news.cso.uiuc.edu> didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry) writes:
>>I also remember friend of mine telling me about her father showing of his
>>english. Father was reading of a box of serial and translating:
>>
>>FAther: Oh, Kokoi khoroshii sirial. Dazhe prezervativov netu.
>>
>>
>>(This is a real life story, this is not a joke.)
>
>
>I interpret "serial" as cereal, right? However i found that
>bilinguality is quite infectuous -- i often mix words myself
>talking to other bilingual persons not because i can't express
>in a single language but rather to be more precise and brief.
>After all the closest Russian word "ovsyanka" is not exactly
>the same thing as cereal. As for Russian equivalent for
>"food preservative" -- i can't make up something shorther than
>three words with the same meaning.
>
>Now, test for the "English Only" wannabees -- how would you
>translate "zhilploshyad'" to English?
>
>--vadim

I think the best possible translation is "living space," but you can't
abbreviate it.  There are a lot of words in English that you can't translate
into Russian without losing the original meaning. Try translating "privacy"
or "workstation."

Shura.





















Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: phvas@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Vlad Soukhanovsky)
Subject: >>new language--immigrantish...
Summary: Tol'ko tekh kto lyubit trud - immigrantami zovut!  
Keywords: immigranty - slavnye rebyata! 
Organization: Immigration and Naturalization Department  
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 00:14:59 GMT



A few words from a vocabulary of Sovoks, emigrated in 70-80s:

draivit' - vodit' mashinu,
bukovat' - zakazyvat' (bilet i td) 

from the vocabulary of people emigrated after WWII:

ushiki - ser'gi (must be earrings),
loshodyonok - zherebyonok,
tzh prinyato govorit' 'imei khoroshii den' ' i td.

Vlad.
From: didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Does Hollywood support black racism?
Date: 9 Oct 92 16:37:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bvv4vC.7Jw
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

ikg1591@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Irina Kosinovsky ) writes:

>Garik, this message still doesnt explain why you insist on him being a "racist"
>Maybe you think that he is not "being intellegent", but in which way does it
>make him a racist?
>I think that truly intellegent people don't use name calling as an argument
>I am not disagreeing with your point of view about how White America should
>act or should't act here -- I just don't understant why every person who
>doesnt have the same views as you do on interracial relations becomes a "racist"

>Ira

Ira,

 I never said that Vadim is not intelligent, this is far from my opinion of him.
 I am also not doing any name calling, I am doing describing, i.e., based on 
 his comment, I feel that he is racist.  By the way, in my dictionary, word
 racist is not as terrible as it might be in your dictionary. 	If a person
 was brought up in environment where there are almost no blacks and where 
 blacks are considered as some strange creatures, then that person will most 
 probably become racist. By the way, same thing can be said about blacks, many
 of whom are also racists, although they claim otherwise by using alternative
 definition of 'racism', which includes word "power' in it.  


 ---Garik.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: igor@cs.columbia.edu (Igor Pankevich)
Subject: Re: Sokurov is NOT an asshole!
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
	<NIKOLAY.92Oct12135213@husc10.harvard.edu>
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 02:43:13 GMT
From: oleg@netcom.com (Oleg Kiselev)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Chauvinism....
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:20:47 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <Bw6MGG.DuI@news.cso.uiuc.edu> didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry) writes:
>Why some men inslave women to fulfill their fantasies?

Because a woman in a slave collar, chained up and bound, is a wonderful
site.  Being called "Master" is not a bad turn on either.
-- 
Oleg Kiselev at home			...use the header to find the path
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry)
Subject: Immigrants/non-immigrants....
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:48:32 GMT

I have a e-mail that I want to share: 
And I think that immigrants:
1) Have it a little bit easier in this country and
2) Still think that everybody should be eager to live in the
US, not in the SU.

Responce:

Tovarisch, tyi ne prav.
From: gene@max.physics.sunysb.edu (Eugene Tyurin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Sokurov is still NOT an asshole!
Date: 13 Oct 92 15:09:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: max.Bw2FFu.8rJ
Organization: Institute for Theoretical Physics

In article <1992Oct12.150445.183726@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PETER VOROBIEFF) writes:
>On the next loop of Sokurov discussion...
>
>>> Sure! I was incorrect and bring my apologies to Mr. Sokurov and to
>>> all assholes too. There was no reasons to call an asshole Sokurov,
>>> or Sokurov an asshole. You are right, as usual.
>>
>>Here's a dilemma. If Sokurov in not an asshole, why do his
>>films have all the requisite qualities of any films made by an asshole?

    [... the same b*llsh*t as above deleted ...]

   Listen you, stop annoying me! I've put the subject "Sokurov ...." in my
KILL-file, but because you've added this stupid NOT in the middle of a line
I have to read all this crap again and again! And besides, this discussion is
not productive at all -- you will not prove anything, just waste the bandwidth.

   Let's better have fun (isn't UseNet about it?) -- discuss the relation
between the everyday life in rural Soviet Middle Asia as of this stupid (sic!)
movie and the movies like Mad Max, Cyborg, Terminator etc! 8-)

   BTW I was at the premiere of this  movie in Moscow and have to say that 
Khanin (?) that wrote music for this movie is definitely an asshole! Needless
to say, book is MU-U-UCH better!

_______________________________________________________________________________
 Eugene  N.  Tyurin  <+>                           gene@max.physics.sunysb.edu
 Physics Department  <+>   Two wrongs do not make it right, but three lefts do.
 SUNY @ Stony Brook  <+>                           Warren Siegel (unpublished)
From: margaret@glas.apc.org (Patricia Schwartz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: America that bad?
Date: 16 Oct 92 05:44:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:netnews.upenn.edu:93107:glas:84600016:000:989
Nf-From: glas.UUCP!margaret    Oct 15 23:44:00 1992


Hmmm...what does "feminism" mean, also.

I consider myself a feminist but I have seen lots of splits and
currents and some "bolshevist" tactics (meaning trying to force
majority PC rule on ideas, not necessarily Marxist ideology.)

Maybe this "bolshevist" phase is over and there is more room
for free discussion without having every dissent branded as paving
the way for sexism and degradation.

I suppose this "bolshvist" phase in Russia might not happen because
I think it was created in America by uniquely Western chains of events
and cultural ideals.

I suppose that is what I mean by the "human face" comment. 

It's difficult to explain. However, I have come across many American
women who remind me a great deal of Lenin in his worst moments,
where every single word of disagreement was turned into a denunciation of the
"right" ideas and an embracing of the "wrong" ideas.

Will that happen here? I predict: no.

Five years from now, tell me if I was right.

margaret, menshevik
From: nikolay@husc10.harvard.edu (Philip Nikolayev)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Movies
Date: 12 Oct 92 21:29:28 GMT
 14141.10480@dxcern.cern.ch><1992Oct11.233939.16301@husc3.harvard.edu>
Organization: The Kremlin Wall of Harvard
In-reply-to: zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu's message of 11 Oct 92 23:39:38 EDT


> Yellow is a color of cowardice, among other things.  At least
> Mandelshtam had his moment of glory with "My zhivem, pod soboiu ne
> chuia strany..."  Bulgakov is a great writer, but also a great
> coward.

Hmm, why do you call Bulgakov was a coward, and a _great_ one too?
I'm at a loss - please enlighten me.

Phil
From: verbit@brauer.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Sexual confession (following Dm. L.)
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:59:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Oct15.135920.16416
Distribution: world
Organization: Sozialistische Patienten Kollektiv



The correspondents of this board  (sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin) 
and vadim@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu) expressed recently the anxiousness to
learn my sexual preferences. Sergay Borodin make interesting speculations
on the topic of my relationship with my wife:

  Nu i mudak ty, Misha! Prosti za grubost'.
  Sounds like you understand sex as a mean to make a baby. Well, 
  *the* mean. So, (can I ask a private question?) once a week
  you are climbing on your wife and ... 2 minutes later go
  asleep? BTW, try to lick her 'genitalia' she (might be you too)
  might enjoy it.  
  Well, I guess so intelligent person can't opress a woman in
  such a shame way.

Following the bright example of Dmitry Leshchiner,
I feel obliged to make a sexual confession.

First of all, when I have sex with women I do it strictly in
missionary position. I feel that any other use of women is morally
sick and deprives a woman of her inborn rights. I don't have a sex
with women often, though, since I am strictly gay. No, dear Sergey Borodin,
I will not be your boyfriend. Univ. of Penn. is too far away,
and besides I don't want to have sex with china pig. My sexual
preference is B&D sex with male gebrils. Anyway, I have a little
fixation on velvet-clad 4 years old female prostitutes.
If you have a friend or acquaintance who knows one,
please tell me, or, better, post it on this board. 
All personal email will be ignored, or posted. If someone wants 
to be subscribed to the Forum mailing list, please 
also post. 

Misha.