HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: b617zbb@utarlg.uta.edu (George M. Smiley)
Subject: Re: F1: Honda
NewsSoftware: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Fire Ron Dennis NOW
NntpPostingHost: utarlg.uta.edu
MessageID: <27JUL199210430028@utarlg.uta.edu>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:43:00 GMT
X-Bytes: 2904

In article <1992Jul27.142706.6781@stsci.edu>, lallo@stsci.edu writes...
>  
>IMHO,
> 
>I thnk pulling out now is a humiliating and devastating action on the part of
>Honda, especially for the Japanese.  They deifiy the sport of F1 as well as
>any Japanese component of it.  
> 
>Fow example, Honda plans to release a midengined sports car called the
>Satoru, after the less than noteworthy F1 driver Satoru Nakajima, the first
>F1 driver of Japanese ancestry.  Furthermore, skimming through the pages of a
>Japanese magazine you'll find Cartoon Superheroes bulging with muscles,
>embazoned with the Honda "H" on their sinewed chests, standing next to
>similar, heroically charicaturized McLarenHonda F1 cars.  Honda's prior
>domination of F1 is literally the stuff of legend in Japan.  
> 
>A withdrawal now, I feel, would leave the Japanese (as well as McLaren Honda
>fans in general) felling cheated or "soldout".  No one
>stays on top forever, I think Ferrari is the quintessential example of that,
>but pulling out completely at the first sight of a raindrop seems
>unsportsmanlike and  cowardly.  I think the fans would much rather see their
>team struggling, trying to regain supremacy rather than simply quitting when
>the going got tough.  
> 
>Granted I'm not Honda's Chief Financial Officer, and their may be some
>legitimate financial reasons for the withdrawal, but it just seems to me that
>if small teams like Leyton House and Footwork manage to make it from race to
>race Honda could easily do the same.
> 
>Comment/flames?
> 

It would be even more devastating for Honda to continue to pour money into
an enterprise that has netted them little in the way of actual sales. They
started F1 as the 3rd largest Japanese automobile producer and they will
leave F1 as the 3rd largest Japanese automobile producer. Japanese people
may be tremendous F1 fans, but, that hasn't translated into direct sales
and with Toyota and Nissan refusing to enter the F1 game Honda has little
to gain by staying. Furthermore, Japan itself seems to be undergoing a
period of economic instability that would caause worried investors to pull
out of all non profitable enterprises. The Nikkei has dropped some 50%,
property values are down 20% in the last year alone, net household wealth
is expected to decline for the first time since the 50's, labor productivity
is steadily declining, and most importantly corporate profits are down
20%. Honda's pulling out of F1 is just good corporate belt tightening.
Japanese fans may root for a struggling engine brand (they continue to
root for Japanese drivers :)) but, fans don't decide a companies policy.
Developing a top engine is the single most expensive thing in F1, Honda is
not a team, it is engine developer and it has no great F1 heritage to 
protect. Honda came to F1 to dominate and that is what it did, I don't
think any F1 fan will forget that.

George.
From: hpb@hpb.cis.pitt.edu (Harry Bloomberg)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: What would you ask Sam Posey?
Date: 23 Jul 92 04:43:52 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: hpb@hpb.cis.pitt.edu


   I was surprized to learn that the Honorary Grand Marshall of this
weekend's Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix will be one Sam Posey,
presumebly the (in)fameous TV commentator.

   I will be working in a corner as a ham radio operator conducting safety
communications for the race, and it's possible that I might encounter Sam
and have on opportunity to chat with him.  However, I don't want to make
a total fool of myself, so I'd like to tap into the Collective Wisdom of
the Net and ask your advice.

   What would you like me to ask Sam Posey?

   Although I don't yet know what I'd say if I met Sam, I do know what
my first action would be.  I'd reach for a camera and attempt to
photograph the reaction of his wife. :-)

Harry Bloomberg
hpb@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: jeff@jlk.b11.ingr.com (Jeff Kilpatrick)
Subject: Re: WC Mfg's Points & Talladega Controversy
Reply-To: jeff@jlk.b11.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corp. Huntsville, AL
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:33:38 GMT

In article <28JUL199210361005@maximillion.cp.mcc.com>, mclellan@maximillion.cp.mcc.com (David McLellan) writes:
|> In article <tlm1.712288654@Ra.MsState.Edu>, tlm1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Terry Matula) writes...
|> > 
|> >About Sunday's Talladega race...(spoilers ahead)
|> >
|> >I just saw a local news report showing that Sterling Marlin and his
|> >crew chief Mike Beam were very angry about Ricky Rudd's drafting of
|> >Ernie Irvan at the end of the race.  
|> > 

  One of the local sportswriters noted that after the race, Mike Beam and Jr.
Johnosn were in a very heated discussion after the race... something about why
didn't Elliot let Marlin pass (I didn't see the end of the race).  When they saw
they were creating a scene, the discussion toned down...
From: wilson@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com (David Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Mansell's handling problems ?
Date: 31 Jul 92 15:38:35 GMT
Organization: Schlumberger CAD/CAM; Ann Arbor, Michigan (USA)

In article <1992Jul28.113258.10226@news.clarkson.edu> taylor@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Ross Taylor,Peyt312,6652,2655436) writes:
>I haven't seen any comments about this so here goes.
>
>Yesterday morning (US Eastern time) a friend grom GB told me on the
>telephone that Mansell had serious handling problems for a lot of the
>race.  Very bad vibrations that caused him to slow down so that he
>could see where he was going.  That's why Senna and Patrese were able
>to close up so much at the end and, perhaps, why Mansell did not pull
>out as much a lead as he has in the past.

From the post-race interviews, and from AutoWeek, I gather that he had
such severe vibration at the end that he said he needed to go see a
dentist.  He also said he literally couldn't see on the straights.

He also mentioned a warning light that tells him when a tire is going
down.  That, and vibration, accounted for his extra-early tire stop.
No details were given, but my speculation is that the warning light is
produced from the computer controlling the suspension, rather than the
sort of pressure sensor that has appeared on a few road cars.  The
computer can tell that the suspension positions it is using aren't
translating into the ride height they ought to, and therefore the tire
is going down.  Just a guess.

Dave Wilson
From: donb@pdx.csd.mot.com (Don Bolton)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: What would you ask Sam Posey?
Keywords: motor-mouth, retire, announce golf
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:55:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: pdxvme.1264
Reply-To: donb@pdx.csd.mot.com (Don Bolton)
Distribution: na
Organization: Parallel Technology "High Octane" Solutions Inc.

In article <3577@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> hpb@hpb.cis.pitt.edu (Harry Bloomberg) writes:

>   What would you like me to ask Sam Posey?

When he's going to *retire* from announcing, we'd like to schedule
the party. :-)


Don "maybe he whiffed too much exhaust in his drivin days" Bolton
From: thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Honda Vs Renault & new Hockenheim track (was Re: Mansell, Michael,)
Date: 28 Jul 92 22:41:25 GMT
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd

In <1992Jul28.012654.1962@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> mchivers@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Michael Chivers) writes:

>It seemed to me the the Mclarens were running the most wing of all
>compared to the Williams and Bennetons, with the Bennetons having the
>least.  Maybe the Honda engine is putting out a decent amount of
>power (more than the Renault)?  It was a realt struggle for the
>Williams to get past Senna.

Part of that was Senna's tactics, and part of it was the reshaping
of Hockenheim. That dinky little chicane is in the middle of what
used to be a very long straight, which would have given both Williams'
a good slingshot past the McLaren. With the chicane in place, and 
both cars accelerating from it, Patrese only just had the grunt 
to close on Senna after most of the straight had gone by.

Apart from that, Honda is still reputed to give the most power, but
Renault are very close, and given the Williams chassis and aerodynamics,
are faster overall.

>Anthony Doig                  | E-Mail : mah@Dialix.oz.au

regards,
-- 
thos cohen  				       |Softway Pty Ltd
 The best way to make a Japanese engineer wince|ACSnet:         thos@softway.oz
 is (when talking about an NSX) to say slowly  |UUCP: ...!uunet!softway.oz!thos
 'but its _not a Ferrari_ is it?' R.Bulgin, CAR|Internet:    thos@softway.oz.au
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: scdorcy@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES DORCEY)
Subject: Re: More IMSA Notes
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 30 Jul 1992 16:19 EST  

In article <1992Jul30.170106.2350@ncube.com>, bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) 
writes...

>IMSA added 50 lbs. of weight to the Jags following Mid-Ohio.  They
>haven't finished among the top two since.  Davy qualified the Jag 3rd,
>but got off to a bad start in Festival.  He was forced wide and put a
>tire into the dirt, allowing Unser to get by on his left.  Jones stated
>"The car wasn't working as well as I thought it would.  It was a handful
>from the start, and it got worse as we went.  It was spinning around and
>eventually I spun in the race."

Obviously expressing my lack of knowledge regarding IMSA rules (an 
"IMSA-phite" I'm not), why did the extra weight get added to the Jaguars 
after a couple of races where they dusted the field (or were in the process 
of doing so), yet the Toyotas go untouched?

JD
From: t9014153@phillip.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: John Watson on German GPy
Date: 30 Jul 92 18:25:05 GMT
Organization: RMIT (Bundoora Campus)

In article <122490023@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, bruno@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bruno Melli) writes:
>> John Barnard has been one of the most
>> influential engineers in Formula One
>> over the past decade.
> 
> A few questions about John Barnard:
> 
> What is John responsible for ?
> Does he design the chassis ? The aerodynamics ?
> Was he at McLaren when they were dominating 

In response to this:
When John Barnard was negotiating with Marco Piccinini (Ferrari's Sporting
Director at the time (1986/87 I think)) for a possible move from McLaren to 
Ferrari, he said he would only move if

	1.he was given TOTAL AUTHORITY over the race car.  That is, from nose-
	  cone to rear wing, engine and gearbox design, aerodynamics, in short
	  he wanted total control over EVERYTHING. This is the way he works!

	2.he wanted Ferrari to invest squillions in a new design facility
	  (including state-of-the-art wind tunnel) in England.  He called it
	  GTO standing for Guilford Technical Office (it's in Guilford).

Of course he got what he wanted and the 639(interim car), 640, 641,641/2, 643
etc. was born.

John Barnard is renowned for designing the McLaren MP4 (and its derivatives
up until 1987) of the mid '80s.
The McLaren MP4/4 (1988) was designed by a team of designers headed by Steve
Nichols (who subsequently moved to Ferrari when Prost left McLaren).  Is this
the period you refer to (1988 onwards) when McLaren was dominating? 

	 
> I understand that he is considered one of the best. However with all the
> chassis problems McLaren is having this season it seems that he is
> not infallible. 

John Barnard did not design the current McLaren MP4/7.

> Who was the designer at Ferrari when they were challenging the McLarens ?

If you mean in 1990 (with Prost and Mansell in the team) the answer to that is
Steve Nicohols, although it must be remembered that the 641 & 641/2 were
derivatives of John Barnard's 639 and 640.  The 641 and 641/2 were used in
1990.


After leaving Ferrari, John signed a five year contract with Benetton, but
that fell through (I'm not sure why).  I'm not sure what he did after that 
split with Benetton, although he now looks like heading back to Maranello.
That can only be good for Ferrari fans like me!


						Happy to oblige, Bruno
						The Fly
						t9014153phillip.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Davey's wreck/ESPN
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:59:11 GMT

Got a chance last night to take a look at the Allison/Waltrip
incident at Pocono for the first time.  I couldn't lay any
specific blame on either driver.  Thank god Davey came away
from it as best he could.

The ever-professional ESPN crew of Jenkins/Jarrett/Parsons,
IMO, did a wonderful job in their handling of the circumstances.
They stayed as low-keyed and optimistic as they could.  You could
detect that Jarrett was especially shook-up over the incident.
They did give an excellent post-accident explanation of the
attributes of the rollcage design.  The only down-side was (again
my opinion) was focusing on the ambulance at the infield hospital.
Joey Knuckles did well to contain himself in the interview they
did with him.

I hope to meet up with Bob Jenkins at Portland this weekend, in
hopes that I can extend kudos to him, Benny and Ned for their
quality broadcasts.  They are a class act.

Anybody got any background on Jenkins?  What did he do prior to
ESPN?

-c'ball-
From: herrickd@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (daniel lance herrick)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: ESPN flames (F1 Silverstone)
Date: 20 Jul 92 18:53:53 EST
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Jul14.003657.9763@e2big.mko.dec.com>, winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:
> I also noticed that there was less of a wife shot problem in the New Hampshire
> IndyCar race than in past races.  Maybe they're finally getting the message
> that the fans would rather see the track action.
Anybody know where to get Marlboro sunglasses?
-- 
dan     dlh%dlhpfm@NCoast.org
dlh Performance Marketing  POBox 1419 Mentor Ohio 44061
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: POCONO
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Date: 21 Jul 92 13:49:12 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

met@naucse.cse.nau.edu (Millam Tackitt) writes:

>I wonder how much of a bounty ol' DW collected from GM for taking Davey 
>out?
>DW had enough time to slow a bit and avoid bumping Davey but instead he
>sped up. I've watched the replay a dozen times and you can see that DW
>hit Davey on purpose.

Hardly.  Speaking as a Ford fan, I have to say there is noone to blame
here.  It was just racing.  DW was looking inside, Davey moved down to
block out the lane, DW tapped his left-rear quarter-panel.  Davey goes
flying.  If Allison had managed to save it, noone would have said very
much...

BTW, please remember I don't like DW at all, so I have no reason to defend
him...it was good, clean racing...it just happened.  If anything, Davey was
being to protective of the position, given his cars relative strength.  A
little patience on his part might have saved him...

 -Steve
--
 The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                        -------------------
     adams@spss.com                           Phone: (312) 329-3522
     Steve Adams                              Fax:   (312) 329-3558
From: JFS10@psuvm.psu.edu (Jonathan Swaby)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: '93 F1 (and IndyCar) predictions
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:50:12 GMT
 <EeNLNxW00Uh7E1Rph6@andrew.cmu.edu> <1992Jul17.172031.17883@bmerh85.bnr.ca>
 <71139657720073@c00007-118dan.eos.ncsu.edu>
 <1992Jul17.210102.23472@rdg.dec.com>
Organization: Penn State University

In article <1992Jul17.210102.23472@rdg.dec.com>, winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com
(Paul S. Winalski) says:

>In article <71139657720073@c00007-118dan.eos.ncsu.edu>,
>jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu (Jay C. Smith) writes:
>|>
>|>Berger leaves McLaren for Ferrari, where the other driver will be
>|>Michael Andretti.  Mario always wanted to drive for Ferrari and it never
>|>worked out, so now he quits Indycars to watch his son drive.
Mario quits indycar to watch Michael. I wish. He is getting
more and more dangerous as time goes on. I would like to see him
retire. Maybe Mario can talk Newman/Hass into starting a F1 team.
Who knows, maybe they can buy a struggling team like Brabham or Lola.
Get Ford to supply the engines. Of course they will have to line up
some sponsors, but that should not be a problem. This could work.
What do you think?

Jonathan Swaby

>Eh?  Mario *did* drive for Ferrari in F1.

>--PSW
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: deb5584@ultb.isc.rit.edu (D.E. Baker )
Subject: Re: Davey's Crash & Front Page
Originator: deb5584@ultb
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 12:12:52 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.163357.13789@hemlock.cray.com> deanb@pecan10.cray.com (Dean Barker) writes:
>
>In article <1992Jul20.193119.29100@cbnewsm.cb.att.com>, rlsx@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (russell.l.stauffer) writes:
>> Well, the local newspaper does at least print the results of the "other"
>> Winston Cup races, but the only time they do a decent job is when the GOBs
>> run at Pocono, just up the road.  Then, they give the races much more
>> attention, but it could be better.  Naturally, the only time there's a photo
>> is when there's a crash.  JD's fatal crash was probably the only photo
>> of NASCAR racing in the paper last year.  What's on the front page today??
>> Sure, Davey's car.  And, a shot of Davey, on a stretcher, being rushed into
>> the hospital.  And, a shot of Bobby Allison hurriedly walking into the
>> hospital.  Journalism at it's finest.  "ooh, we got a report somebody
>> famous got injured up at Pocono and they're Medevac'n them in.  Send
>> someone over to the hospital to get photos of their arrival..."
>
>I agree with ya there. Here's my story: 
>
>I moved this weekend and it was impossible to have cable tv hooked up ahead of
>time at my new place. I have a strong beef about cable companies, but that's
>another story. I watched to 10:00 news last night, and when the sports came on
>they showed Davey's crash ... but didn't mention the winner of the race. So 
>then I switched to another channel and same thing ... the crash, but no mention
>of who won the damn race. Needless to say, I was ticked.
>
>BTW, Good job by "The Wisconsin Gang": Kulwicki #3, Musgrave #5, and Trickle #9.
>Top that Alabama!!
>
>-Dean
>-- 
>----------------------------------------------------------
>Dean Barker				Cray Research, Inc.
>deanb@cray.com				655F Lone Oak Drive
>(612) 683-5414				Eagan, MN 55121

	I agree.  They (the news) covers all the details of golf
and other sports which aren't 1/2 as big as auto racing and almost never
mention racing results only major crashes.  I think "sports writers"
don't know how to cover racing and they think poeple only go to watch
the crashes.              

					Doug
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: mchivers@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Michael Chivers)
Subject: Re: Its time for another match race
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 04:05:43 GMT

hanss@microsoft.com (Hans Spiller) writes:

>end?  I'm sure that'd be the case today with GTP vs Indy Cars.  I guess
>the Toyota weighs a little more than the Indy Car, has a slightly smaller
>engine with a little more boost), and is probably better aerodynamicly
>on just about all fronts: more downforce and less drag (they don't have
>to push this great hulking wheel that's generating massive turbulence
>through the air)

I think an Indy car (& F1) would have more downforce than a GTP (& WSC
car) car.  The GTP car would have less drag, for the reasons stated
above.

Anthony Doig                  | E-Mail : mah@Dialix.oz.au
Corporate Systems Development |
Perth, Western Australia      | - include a witty bit of text here -
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Subject: Re: NASCAR news (7/21)
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:34:55 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

cornutt@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (David Cornutt) writes:

[filling in for Davey Allison]

>Lyn St. James: Well-known Ford spokesperson.  After Indy, it would
>make for a hell of a year, wouldn't it?

She's had a fairly long-standing racing relationship with Bill Elliott.
I suspect that if she's given the chance, he'll back her up 100%.

 -Steve
--
 The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                        -------------------
     adams@spss.com                           Phone: (312) 329-3522
     Steve Adams                              Fax:   (312) 329-3558
From: apayton@acorn.co.uk (Andrew W Payton)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Mansell dominates German Practice
Date: 24 Jul 92 13:50:31 GMT
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, England


 From BBC CEEFAX
                                        
 Nigel Mansell gave another superlative 
 display to dominate the first practice 
 session for Sunday's 45-lap race at the
 Hockenheim circuit.                    
                                        
 The 38-year-old Briton clocked 1 minute
 38.340 secs in his Williams, almost two
 secs quicker than his closest rival    
 Ayrton Senna.                          
                                        
 The session was interrupted for half an
 hour while the track was cleared of    
 dust and gravel after a series of spins
 at the revamped Ostkurve.              
                                        
 Martin Brundle and Johnny Herbert were 
 among those to spin during the session.

 FIA FORMULA ONE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP     
 Friday's unofficial practice:          
                               mins secs
 1 N Mansell    GB  Williams   1:38.340 
 2 A Senna      Brz Mclaren    1:40.331 
 3 R Patrese    It  Williams   1:40.501 
 4 G Berger     Aut McLaren    1:40.869 
 5 M Schumacher Ger Benetton   1:42.183 
 6 J Alesi      Fr  Ferrari    1:42.563 
 7 T Boutsen    Bel Ligier     1:42.930 
 8 M Alboreto   It  Footwork   1:43.574 
 9 M Brundle    GB  Benetton   1:43.614 
10 E Comas      Fr  Ligier     1:43.696 
11 I Capelli    It  Ferrari    1:43.744 
12 A de Cesaris It  Tyrrell    1:43.790 
13 K Wendlinger Aut March      1:44.173 
14 A Suzuki     Jpn Footwork   1:44.359 
15 M Hakkinen   Fin Lotus-Ford 1:44.370 
16 G Tarquini   It  Fondmetal  1:44.661 
17 O Grouillard Fr  Tyrrell    1:44.689 
18 P Martini    It  Dallara    1:45.099 
19 JJ Lehto     Fin Dallara    1:45.132 
20 P Belmondo   Fr  March      1:45.190 
21 G Morbidelli It  Minardi    1:45.455 
22 A Zanardi    It  Minardi    1:45.788 
23 M Gugelmin   Brz Jordan     1:45.941 
24 J Herbert    GB  Lotus      1:46.164 
25 S Modena     It  Jordan     1:46.211 
26 A Chiesa     Swi Fondmetal  1:46.362 
27 U Katayama   Jpn Venturi    1:46.406 
28 E Vd Poele   Bel Brabham    1:47.321 
29 D Hill       GB  Brabham    1:49.843 
30 B Gachot     Bel Venturi did not run 


---Andrew

   Information Systems Group    EMail:     apayton@acorn.co.uk
   Acorn Computers Ltd          Telephone: +44 223 245200
   

   "We're going to have to get pretty low to land this one!"

    --Ted Striker Airplane II