HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:48:10 -0600
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         ALANO@HOUVMSCC.VNET.IBM.COM
Subject:      Parents, School, and Government

Michael G Hines wrote ===>

> The responsiblity of the government is to realize their roll (sic) in
> education.  They are simply service providers, who compete against
> alternative service providers (mentioned above).

Yes, you can think of public schools as a service, but it's not like other
"services" that we encounter in our world today.  It's more like the
following.  Suppose for $1000/year AT&T will provide your phone
service.  Say you have another choice, MCI, that is also $1000/year.
Now you can choose either.  If you choose AT&T, great!  If you choose
MCI, that's great too, but (oh, by the way) you still have to pay your
$1000/year to AT&T regardless.  Public schooling is not just one
service among many.  It is one that has the characteristic of being
"free" in that it won't cost you any more or less if you use this
"service".  If you go to a private school or involve yourself in
homeschooling, you still have to pay for the public school.

For public schools to be a service in the sense you're talking about
(i.e., where one is allowed take their education tax dollars with
their child and buy the "service" they want) would require a major
shift in the philosophy of schooling in the US.  In other words: NOT!

Alan Ogletree
Houston, TX
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-VMS-To: IN%"EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 10:38:12 -0500
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         RUD@WCUVAX1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Send a message to Riley

This isn't exactly a research agenda, but rather a vision.  I wrote the
following for Vito Perrone's North Dakota Study Group on Evaluation in  a
similar request for information for their annual meeting in February, where
they will pen a similar epistle to Riley.  For what it is worth.  And I
really like the idea of education as process/conversation that Gene
offered.

The new secretary of education should be someone who can voice the moral
aspects of teaching and learning, who sees as his central task propounding
and enacting a vision that emphasizes an inclusive schooling for all, an
elimination of tracking, curricula for multiple intelligences, and a focus
upon learning participation in a democratic society and stewardship of the
environment.

-=-=-=-=-=-= The N.C. Center for the Advancement of Teaching =-=-=-=-=-=-
A. G. Rud Jr.                | Mail-Ids:  Local: rud
Senior Fellow                |           BITNET: rud@wcuvax1.bitnet
NCCAT                        |         INTERNET: rud@wcuvax1.wcu.edu
Cullowhee, NC 28723-9062 USA | Voice: (704) 293-5202  FAX: (704) 227-7363
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET"
X-VMS-Cc: SCHOF
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 11:26:00 EST
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         SCHOF@PITTVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Post-doc Position

                           January 25, 1993



Dear Sirs:

In an e-mail message to follow, I am sending you an announcement
for a post-doctoral position working we me on an NSF-funded project
on the impact of computer networking in an urban school system.
This project is being conducted jointly by individuals at the
University of Pittsburgh, Carnegie Mellon University, The
Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center, and the Pittsburgh Public Schools.
I would greatly appreciate your looking at the announcement
carefully and calling it to the attention of anyone you think
would be a strong candidate for the position. Prior work related
to the impact of technology on educational processes is not as
important a selection criterion as overall research capabilities
which would allow the individual to function as a true colleague
(e.g., very strong conceptual and analytic skills; broad
training in research methodology, including questionnaire design,
and interviewing skills; writing skills, etc.). We just received
word of funding which starts this month. Thus, ideally,
I would like someone able to start immediately. However,
practically speaking, I realize some delay may be inevitable.  I
would be willing to delay a bit (DEFINITELY not past June 1) if
it were absolutely essential in order to recruit a truly
outstanding person for this position.

I can be reached by phone at (412) 624-7473 (office) or (412)
963-0822 (home) or by e-mail (SCHOF@PITTVMS). Please encourage
any suitable applicants to consider applying for the position
as soon as possible.

Thanks very much.

Sincerely,



Janet W. Schofield
Professor of Psychology
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:03:31 -0400
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         "Greg J. Kirschner" <YL361C@GWUVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: What is a school for?

This is my first posting so please bear with me...

I feel that public schools are childrens first interaction with their
government.  This can have a profound effect upon them.  The government
is suppossedly for the people and by the people, so what their experience
in school is like will influence how children feel about their government,
in the future, and how they feel about themselves.  Therefore, it deals
with deep values, beyond workplace ethics and polite public interaction,
into the realm of liberty and equality.

In this way, the role of schools, of education, is to introduce children to
society, to their rights, to their responsibilities.  By this empowerment,
these children can personally develope into good citizens.

Just as an aside, I am an undergrad interested in education and have found
this list to be very informative.

Regards,
Greg J. Kirschner
yl361c@gwuvm.binet
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-VMS-To: IN%"EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 11:58:00 CDT
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         "John O. Wong" <JOHNWONG@MACC.WISC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: school choice and clinton

Covaleski,

>On this reasoning, if Bill Clinton chooses to advocate policies to improve
>the lot of the homeless, I assume that he will again be charged with hypocrisy
>unless the family spends the rest of his term living in a cardboard box outside
>Union Station.

Only if he claims he actually lived in a cardboard box while at Little Rock and
chided his opponent in choosing to stay in the White House, but later on
decides to move into the White House with the full complement of domestic help,
claiming it is a "private" decision (as citizens) to do the best for the
family.

The issue is not "private schooling," but honesty as we wish we could expect
from one who has prepared himself all his life to be, and is now out leader.
This is no attempt to compare which is the lesser of two evils.  As Peter had
so aptly stated earlier, some of us are disappointed because this looks like
more of the same...

Indeed if Bill opts to stage a cardbox weekend under some freeway in D.C. or
NYC, it may do a tremendous amount of good in highlighting the plight of the
homeless.  A night at some welfare motel of debilitated public housing might
work too, tho less dramatic.  I am still surprised by your reluctance to see
this point.  Perhaps you are much more in tune with the Clinton brand of
morality (whatever that is), that you can more easily empathize with his
personal plight and predicament, that lowly souls like yours truly have trouble
understanding its complexity??




                                    # John Wong (608)263-3025
                                    # johnwong@wiscmacc.bitnet
                                    # johnwong@macc.wisc.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11t]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:45:13 MST
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         Roger Wilson <rwilson@ACS.UCALGARY.CA>
Subject: Re: What is a school for?
              93 11:53 am

Mark Steinberger writes:

>The question is whose values we are going to teach our children.
>
>The values of the workplace and of polite public interaction should be
>taught to all students in school, as that is a necessity. But deeper
>values are more personal and should be left to families.


Perhaps someone might articulate the "values of the workplace" so
we can ascertain if there's any consensus on them as I'm inclined
to believe that there isn't.  They may seem self-evident, but
clearly they are not as various sectors of the business world do
NOT operate with the same agenda and expectations of employees.
There is not a generic set of values common to business for
clearly their practices in conducting their enterprise evolve a
set of values that are as varied as the multiplicity of companies
conducting business, which pretty well reduces business's expectations of
employees to notions of worker compliance and passivity in
preparation for moulding to the company's ideology.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"EDPOLYAN@asuvm.inre.asu.edu"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:42:14 -0600
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         FSMITH@CHARLIE.USD.EDU
Subject:      RE: Survey regarding campus smoking policies

the campus of the University of South Dakota.  Needless to say, that while the
 place is a lot healthier, there have been some rather creative attempts to get
 around the order.  We even have a committee to review violations.  Hmmmm.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:36:02 -0500
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         Michael G Hines <HINESMG@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: What is a school for?

>Jonona S. Young writes:
>
>>Might I add John, are the ethics and values of the work place all we
>>would like to teach our children?
>
>The question is whose values we are going to teach our children.
>
>The values of the workplace and of polite public interaction should be
>taught to all students in school, as that is a necessity. But deeper
>values are more personal and should be left to families.
>
>--Mark

Why don't we teach children character?  Character wouldn't become
a curriculum of it's own.  Character is something we should have
from day to day to day ...

Character which should be taught to children and carry over into
adulthood such as:  attentiveness, thankfulness, responsiblity,
contentment (realizing things obtained beyond what we have are
an added benifit and responsibility), etc.

Teaching children character will enhance their values and build
higher personal convictions based upon their values.  Also, they
are a tremendous benifit to children when they become adults.
**********************************************************************
*                         Michael G Hines                            *
*    Student of Computer Information Systems at Purdue University    *
*                      hinesmg@vm.purdue.edu                         *
*                         hinesmg@purccvm                            *
**********************************************************************
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 00:14:06 -0500
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         Mark Steinberger <mark@CSC.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Omaha 2000 Session To Beam Across U.S.

Does America 2000 have well-articulated goals?

What are they?

--Mark
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: edpolyan@asuacad.bitnet
X-VMS-To: IN%"edpolyan@asuacad.bitnet"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 11:26:22 -0400
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         JSYNTS@RITVAX.BITNET
Subject:      What is a school for?

Might I add John, are the ethics and values of the work place all we would
like to teach our children?
Jonona S. Young
RIT/NTID
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Sat, 23 Jan 1993 14:29:00 PST
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         Eric Dey <EBO1DEY@UCLAMVS.BITNET>
Subject:      re: General Education Requirements

In response to Dewayne Matthews' request for info on g.e. programs:

The study that Donna Olvera refers to was actually directed by
Alexander Astin of the UCLA Higher Education Research Institute
(Hurtado and Dey were research associates on the project).

Research on TYPES of general education programs can be found
in Hurtado, Astin, & Dey (1991) Varieties of general education
programs, JOURNAL OF GENERAL EDUCATION, 40, 133-162 (see
the other articles in that volume as well), while research on the
EFFECTS of different types of general education programs can
be found in Astin (1993) What matters in college? Jossey-Bass.

In your review of 'core' programs please note that truth in advertising
laws do not apply to descriptions of general education programs:
Many 'core' programs are (sometimes) structured distribution programs.
'Real' core programs, where students are required to take the same
set of courses before jumping into major field work, are VERY rare
(about 5 percent) but they seem to effective at promoting a variety
of outcomes (see the Astin book).                                        ysis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric L. Dey, Associate Director
Higher Education Research Institute, UCLA
ebo1dey@uclamvs
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 21:04:28 -0600
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         alano@VNET.IBM.COM

Maybe we should just say that it's possible for a hypocrite
to formulate and execute top notch education policy, and then maybe
we'd all be happy!

Alan Ogletree
Houston, TX
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Sun, 24 Jan 1993 19:03:57 MST
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         Dick Richardson <ATRIC@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      re: General Education Requirements

The latest issue of the Chronicle of Higher Education annonuces this year's
winner of the AAC Frederic W. Ness Book award as Rudolph Weingartner for
"Undergraduate Education: Goals and Means." Weingartner is a philosopher.

Richard C. Richardson Jr.
Division of Educational Leadership and Policy Studies
Arizona State University
Tempe, Az 85287-2411   (602) 965 4952
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:42:39 -0500
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         U56E3@WVNVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: What is a school for?

Re Alan Ogletree's dilemmas (Mario is a great counter example!).

Has anyone on this list (or elsewhere) argued for the disestablishment of
PRIVATE schools?  Would that constitute a public good?  I'm skeptical.

CRAIG HOWLEY, ERIC/CRESS, P.O. BOX 1348, CHARLESTON, WV  25325
1-800/624-9120
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 11:58:24 EST
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         peter lau <72460.3000@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Clinton and Baird

The misadventure of Zoe Baird shows that when one is serving the public, one
cannot separate personal choices from public policy.  Both Baird's personal
indiscretion and Clinton's choice for private school, while having no direct
impact on their public policies, nonethelss sends a message.

peter lau
uc riverside
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Priority:     normal
X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R4).
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 13:22:12 EST
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         "Michael S. Hines" <MSHINES@FREH-03MS.ADPC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: A message to Mr. Secretary

Gene--

There ought to be discussion of setting up laboratories for educational
research.

Education is the only research group who conducts its research on live
subjects in live class rooms.  I fear what the consequences are for the
control group and for the unsuccessful experiments.

I've been around long enough now to have seen a cycle too.  The costs of
these cycles is tremendous.  We went from small community based schools to
consolidated school districts..and now I hear the small community school
is vogue again.  It's great for the building trades, but reaks havoc on
those of us who pay for it.

Same for open classrooms...
Phonetic reading...
New math...
Majoring on social studies....
The trend to become a social agency... (loss of focus TQM#1)...

When can we get back to majoring on the majors?

IMHO of course...

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet:  mshines@ia.purdue.edu      |  Michael S. Hines
Bitnet:  michaelh@purccvm             |  Internal Auditor-EDP
Purdue WIZARD Mail: MSHINES           |  Purdue University
GTE Net: (317) 494-5845               |  1065 Freehafer Hall
                                      |  West Lafayette, IN 47907-1065
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
X-Organization: Marshall University
X-VMS-To: _IN%"EDPOLYAN@asuvm.inre.asu.edu"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:13:00 -0400
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         Aimee Howley <ESS016@MARSHALL.MU.WVNET.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Clinton's school choice

Peter-
There is a difference between having all of one's choices exposed to
public scrutiny and having all of one's choices serve the public (either
symbolically or actually).  But even if we were to require the latter of
public personages, Clinton hasn;t made such a bad symbolic statement.
He has demonstrated himself to be a responsive, concerned parent;
and he has demonstrated his belief that a good education is valuable.
He didn't for example use his above-average income to buy Chelsea
a yacht or his influence to get her a date with Prince Charles.

--Aimee Howley; Marshall University
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:23:42 -0500
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         Michael G Hines <HINESMG@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Parents, School, and Government

Bill Clinton's selection of school is correct.  Parents are
responsible for their children's education and government is
responsible to be service providers.

The parent's responsiblity is to provide their child with the highest
quality education, at the lowest cost.  For many Americans, the
educational choice is public education.  Some Americans believe that
public education is not of the quality they desire and "shop" for
alternative service providers (i.e., private schools or home
schooling).  The point here is that parents are responsible to
educate their children and that education should be of the highest
quality that they can provide.

The responsiblity of the government is to realize their roll in
education.  They are simply service providers, who compete against
alternative service providers (mentioned above).  From a business
perspective the service providers goal is to provide the highest
quality education, to the largest market share, at the lowest cost
to the consumer.  Those who believe that puclic educatoin is not
what they desire for their children usually complain about the quality
of the education provided.  It might benifit the government to
understand what are the quality characteristics of educatoin (I
won't go into these; it's a completly different topic).

The point I'm arguing for is that parents are responsible for their
child's education and parents have the responsibility to choose
the highest quality education affordable to them.  A sub-point being
argued is that government is mearly a service provider and they must
learn to compete on a real basis with other service providers on
a business level.

**********************************************************************
*                         Michael G Hines                            *
*    Student of Computer Information Systems at Purdue University    *
*                      hinesmg@vm.purdue.edu                         *
*                         hinesmg@purccvm                            *
**********************************************************************
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edpolyan
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:59:53 MST
              <EDPOLYAN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
From:         AHKAM@ASUACAD.BITNET

With respect to the continuing dialogue about classics.....

I can see that there is value in naming classics.  However, I offer the
following caveat.  When lists of classics are constructed, voices are
denied.  Historically, the voices of women and people of color have been
ignored when constructing canons.
Look at the nominations thus far......Rousseau's Emile, Plato's Republic. a
few of the writers from the 60s.  Who's voices are being valued and heard?
So, I would say, continue your list if you wish.  But see it for what it is--
a partial naming of knowledge and nothing more.

KYLE MESSNER
Arizona State University
College of Education
Payne 204B
602-965-3902
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU