HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: breid@pyrhard2.eng.pyramid.com (Bill Reid)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: "Hot, dry weather causes earthquakes"
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:08:52 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

In article <131171@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> hauk@s24.es.llnl.gov (Terri Hauk  423-7332) writes:
>
>Anyway, what is the supposed mechanism between ambient air temperature and 
>earthquake rupture 5-20 km beneath the surface (for California)?
>
Please don't misinterpret this as a post supporting the idea of 
"earthquake weather", which seems silly to me (especially since I have 
experienced earthquakes in cold rainy weather).  But you could postulate 
the mechanism is the barometric pressure (low for hot dry weather) 
not "pressing down" the plates, allowing vertical upthrusts of the 
fault.  Even if this mechanism had some effect, it would be hard to 
detect in the data (you might re-evaluate vertical faulting vs weather if 
you had more time than you knew what to do with).
From: jml@solara.ssl.berkeley.edu (Jonathan Loran)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Safety of the transbay BART tube
Date: 21 Jul 92 23:43:07 GMT
Organization: University of California Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: solara.ssl.berkeley.edu

Many thanks to Richard Hyde for his informitive answers to the safety
of the BART tube.  I will feel a lot better now riding into the city from
the east bay.


Thanks,

>>> jml
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: survey benchmarks
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:14:31 GMT
Distribution: ca

In article <1992Jul20.052620.15355@qualcomm.com>, karn@chicago.qualcomm.com (Phil Karn) writes:
> In article <7451@public.BTR.COM> thad@btr.btr.com writes:
> >I don't even want to bring up the legal issues concerning, say, ownership
> >of one's garage after it's moved 20 feet onto one's neighbor's property
> >after a *BUMP*, ~g~r~i~n~d~ earth displacement!  :-)
> 
> This would probably be the least of your problems, considering that
> for this to happen your property would have to be right on top of an
> active fault that had just experienced a great earthquake (magnitude
> in the high 7s or low 8s). Nobody in their right mind would buy
> ...
> and Newport-Inglewood faults let go? From what I've read, it's simply
> impossible to build a building that can withstand surface faulting (as
> opposed to even strong ground shaking), so it seems completely silly
> to rebuild when you know that it will just get knocked down by the
> next earthquake on the same fault.
> 
> Ideally it ought to be possible to sell such properties to the state
> which would turn them into public parks or "green zones", but even at
> bargain prices the cost is probably much more than the state could
> afford. So chances are the owners will just rebuild and start the
> cycle again.

First, I disagree with the basic premise here.  Only if the building actually
straddles the fault is there any problem.  In that case part of the
building goes one way and the rest the other, and sure, that's a hard
problem to design around.  There's a famous picture from the 1906 quake
that shows a farmhouse where the fault ran right in front of the structure.
The fault carried the front steps and the path leading up to them some 15
feet or so away from the front door.  The building was undamaged and this
was before earthquake codes and earthquake-resistant design.  There are
similar examples from that and other quakes.  The fact is that the intensity
does not vary a lot from right next to the fault to a distance that depends
on the size of the quake, but for a quake this big would be about 5 miles
or so.  It would be impossible and unnecessary to eliminate all that land
from consideration for construction.  (the reason the intensity does not
vary a lot is that the quake is not a point source, think of it as a big
flat radiator of energy set vertically in the earth.  It extends about 20
km into the earth and a big quake will break at least 50 km along the fault.
That entire surface radiates seismic energy.  You have to get pretty far
away before you start to get a geometric decrease in intensity).


--
Richard Stead
Center for Seismic Studies
Arlington, VA
stead@seismo.css.gov
From: art@acc.com (Art Berggreen)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: rain and earthquakes
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:27:19 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: ACC, Advanced Computer Communications

In article <50981@seismo.CSS.GOV> stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead) writes:
>> Well, this may not be the appropriate forum for a scientific debate, but
>
>Sure it is.  Perhaps not everyone will follow the discussion (I do try
>to keep jargon out of it, even when debating a point like this), but
>I'm sure most of those who read the group can because they're generally
>interested in quakes.  If I have to use something that may be unfamiliar,
>I'll quickly explain it in the post (like the description of failed rifts
>in my last post).  Most of the readers will be happy to see what you have to
>say.  (But maybe we shouldn't get too far down some tangent that may get
>boring to everyone else).

Please keep such discussions on this newsgroup.  Most of us are probably
not professional geo-scientists, but have some knowledge or at least
interest in the subject.  I might not follow or understand all of the
details at once, but I can generally follow the arguments and definitely
learn things.  I'd much rather see scientific discussion than "Where were
you when the such-and-such quake hit?" (even though that is sometimes
entertaining and often leads to more important topics).

Art
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: rchilder@us.oracle.com (Richard Childers)
Subject: Re: fax
Organization: Memes-R-Us
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 21:45:00 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

greg@perry.berkeley.edu (Greg Anderson) writes:

>However, as a scientist, one must also be critical.  

But your criticisms are based upon old models which do not take into
account every attribute of the environment.

>In order to decide if a theory is good, one needs to under-
>stand the data and methods upon which the theory is based,
>in order to test its validity.

This theory is still being evolved. Right now, if you haven't noticed,
there is no theory ... only an effort to gather data.

>So, what does all this have to do with Jack Coles?  Simply this: 
>Jack Coles claims he has done experiments which lead him to predict
>predict earthquakes based on RF noise events.  Fine.  Then let him
>share his data and his methods and let other researchers try the
>same experiments.  If they can reproduce his results, then he 
>has done a valid experiment.  If not, then either Coles or the 
>other researchers or both have done something incorrect.

My understanding is that Mr. Coles believes that proper interpretation
of RF noise may facilitate earthquake prediction, which isn't quite
what you said above.

>However, Mr. Coles steadfastly refuses to share his data and his
>methods (beyond vague generalities).  So no other scientist can
>attempt his experiments to test their validity.  Therefore, no other
>scientist can say his predictions are valid.

Nor can they say, with scientific certainty, that they are invalid.

Seems to me I've seen some pretty specific articles describing what
his equipment is, who else is helping, and where the data can be
seen - on which bulletin board systems, that is.

>When he can demonstrate scientifically the validity of his claims,
>then I'll start treating his claims with the respect I give valid
>claims.  Until then, I don't believe them.  That's not due to a
>closed mind.  It's due to a skeptical point of view on unproven
>theories -- a scepticism which is necessary for science to work.

Bullshit. It's not a question of belief ... it's a question of keeping
from calling it nonsense, until such point in time as you can *prove*
that it is nonsense. No such proof exists on either side. Which is why
it annoys people when you refer to Mr. Coles with a derogatory tone ...

Reference : article <10009>@optilink.UUCP, where Ron Teplitz (rteplitz
@optilink.com ) goes into great detail about monitoring activities.

-- richard

-- 
-- richard childers		rchilder@us.oracle.com		1 415 506 2411
         oracle data center  --  unix systems & network administration

                   Klein flask for rent. Inquire within.
From: Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Caltech weekly PostScript maps in "Post" for the Amiga
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 14:45:12 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

This notice will only be of interest to Amiga users who use Adrian 
Aylward's excellent "Post" program to view the weekly Caltech 
PostScript epicenter maps on their screens. (For the unknowing, Post
is a PostScript interpreter into which can be loaded a PostScript
file which can then either be viewed on screen in various resoutions
of size & dpi, dumped to one's printer, saved to disk as an Amiga
IFF ILBM file or any combination of the three.  The maps I refer to
are created each week at Caltech and are posted to their anonymous
FTP site: seismo.gps.caltech.edu in the /pub/ca.earthquakes directory.
There are a couple years' worth of maps and corresponding text files
there for the taking. The maps plot the epicenters of all events
magnitude 1.0 and larger on a simplistic map of Southern California
with the known major fault traces shown). 

At any rate, I digress.  After viewing many of these ps maps on my
Amiga's monitor using Post I wondered why they always displayed upside-
down. Being a PostScript moron it took me a lot of experimentation to
figure out how to overcome this.  Changing two lines in the map's
PostScript file makes them display rightside-up. (Naturally if you're
dumping the maps to a printer, all you have to do is turn the paper
around :-) 

At any rate, the offending lines appear near the beginning of each of
the map.ps files and read as follows (they are the same in every file):
8.25 72 mul .25 72 mul translate
90 rotate
To make the maps appear rightside-up in Post, simply change those two
lines to read as follows;
.25 72 mul 8.25 72 mul translate
270 rotate
and that's it. Again, this is probably terribly obvious to PostScript
wizards.. but on the off chance that someone else who reads this group
uses an Amiga and Post to view these maps onscreen and wants to view
them rightside-up, well there ya go.

Harv
From: howland@clipper.ingr.com (Mike Howland)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: survey benchmarks
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:54:46 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Intergraph Advanced Processor Division - Palo Alto, CA


>In article <7451@public.BTR.COM> thad@btr.btr.com writes:
>>I don't even want to bring up the legal issues concerning, say, ownership
>>of one's garage after it's moved 20 feet onto one's neighbor's property
>>after a *BUMP*, ~g~r~i~n~d~ earth displacement!  :-)
>
>This would probably be the least of your problems, considering that
>for this to happen your property would have to be right on top of an
>active fault that had just experienced a great earthquake (magnitude
>in the high 7s or low 8s). Nobody in their right mind would buy
>property like that. But then again, this is California. :-) (I'm
>assuming you're talking about actual surface faulting, not a landslide
>or ground failure caused by an earthquake somewhere else.)
>
>Phil

  I've always been real curious about this too.  Just about every inch of
land is owned by somebody, even if it's the state or the government, so
this is a real problem which must be fixed on a real estate deed somewhere
every time the earth moves.

  A fault typically isn't a point source, i.e., a distinct crack in the 
ground, its more of a zone.  Therefore its not a cut and dry issue for
people who buy land near faults.  Faults which haven't moved for centuries,
or previously uncharted ones can easily wake up and move your garage a few
feet as well.  (Or new ones too...)

  As for nobody in their right mind buying property like that, how about
the U Cal Berkeley stadium where the Hayward fault runs right down the 
50 yard line?  If *people* don't buy the land, the state or some institution
will.  To find the Hayward fault, just mark all of the hospitals, freeways, 
schools, fire departments and densest population centers in the east bay, 
and thats a good approximation...  Silly humans :-)

Mike.  (howland@clipper.ingr.com)
From: paulb@harley.tti.com (Paul Blumstein)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: "Hot, dry weather causes earthquakes"
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:27:04 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Bit Herders International

In article <14f4qbINNe35@agate.berkeley.edu> greg@perry.berkeley.edu (Greg Anderson) writes:
+The theory of "earthquake weather" actually originated about
+2500 years ago with Aristotle.  It was his theory that earthquakes
+were caused by gas trapped within the earth, blowing and 
+rumbling about, causing underground explosions.  Thus, when the
+air was still and hot, the theory went, an earthquake was coming
+because the winds were trapped in the earth.
+
+Needless to say, that is not how earthquakes happen.  Yet people
+still persist in the belief of earthquake weather.  The simple
+fact is that earthquakes are no more likely to happen in hot
+dry weather than they are in cold, wet weather.  Earthquakes
+and weather are not at all correlated.

My wife never knew Aristotle :-).  Neither had she ever heard of that
theory.  (Perhaps it was because we migrated from NYC 17 years ago).
However, her own unscientific observations were that most earthquakes
happen when the weather is hot & still.

She mentioned that again right after the twin tremors.  Sure enough,
it was abnormally hot & no wind  a few hours after they hit.  I 
had been dismissing it as just a coincidence and now am surprised
to learn that she is not alone in these observations.  Now I wonder.
People used to dismiss Folk Medicine as "old wives tales", but some
drug company took it serious enough to research all these tales &
found some had merit.  So, do not be too quick to discount it.

============================================================================
	Love is a word that is constantly heard,
	Hate is a word that is not.
	Love, I am told, is more precious than gold.
	Love, I have read, is hot.
	But hate is the verb that to me is superb,
	And Love but a drug on the mart.
	Any kiddie in school can love like a fool,
	But Hating, my boy, is an Art.
			-- Ogden Nash
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Paul D. Blumstein, paulb@tti.com, DoD #36, KD6LAA, LS/MFT
         Transaction Technology, Inc., Santa Monica, CA
From: karn@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Phil Karn)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: survey benchmarks
Date: 22 Jul 92 05:12:33 GMT
Reply-To: karn@chicago.qualcomm.com
Distribution: ca
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc

In article <131052@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV>, hauk@s24.es.llnl.gov (Terri Hauk  423-7332) writes:
|> Since the Alquist-Priolo Special Studies Zone Act took effect in 1981, no
|> building is allowed within 500 feet of an active fault trace.

Thank you, I wasn't aware of this. This is a Good Move.

Question: can anyone post a summary of how the building codes have
evolved in California with regard to residential earthquake hazards?
How much of that is regulated by the state and how much by local
government?

This type of information would *really* come in handy when choosing
among houses of various ages. The structural engineer I recently hired
to inspect the house I'm buying in San Diego rattled off a couple of
requirements and dates (e.g., I believe the requirement to bolt sill
plates to foundations was added in 1940) but it would be nice to have
a complete list without having to comb a whole century's worth of
building codes...

Phil
From: greg@perry.berkeley.edu (Greg Anderson)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: "Hot, dry weather causes earthquakes"
Date: 22 Jul 1992 18:00:34 GMT
Organization: UC Berkeley
Distribution: ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: perry.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Jul22.172704.20914@ttinews.tti.com> paulb@harley.tti.com (Paul Blumstein) writes:
>However, her own unscientific observations were that most earthquakes
>happen when the weather is hot & still.
>
>She mentioned that again right after the twin tremors.  Sure enough,
>it was abnormally hot & no wind  a few hours after they hit.  I 
>had been dismissing it as just a coincidence and now am surprised
>to learn that she is not alone in these observations.  Now I wonder.
>People used to dismiss Folk Medicine as "old wives tales", but some
>drug company took it serious enough to research all these tales &
>found some had merit.  So, do not be too quick to discount it.

Right.  As a scientist, I try hard to keep an open mind and not
dismiss possible causes simply because I can't see a clear link
between possible cause and observed effect.

And in this case, the same holds true.  There has never been found,
despite extensive studies, any correlation between weather and
earthquakes.  One study I can recall involved over 10000 earthquakes
in California between the 1960's and 1980's, and weather records 
dating from that time period.  No correlation between weather and
earthquakes was found.

People make statements such as "it was abnormally hot & no wind a 
few hours after they [two earthquakes] hit" -- which is fine.  
However, they fail to note all the times that it was "abnormally
hot & no wind" when there *were* no earthquakes.  Earthquakes 
(especially large earthquakes) are traumatic experiences for 
people, so people remember what was going on shortly before,
during, and after an earthquake in better detail than they do
normally.

Please understand, I'm not trying to criticize anybody personally.
It's just that weather and earthquakes have not been found
to be correlated.

Greg Anderson
UCB Seismographic Stations
greg@perry.berkeley.edu

Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: survey benchmarks
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:36:50 GMT
Distribution: ca

In article <1992Jul20.141654.18755@unocal.com>, stgprao@xing.unocal.com (Richard Ottolini) writes:
> 
> (1) The location of many faults, such as the one involved in the Lander's
> quake, is not known until the earthquake occurs.

I want to correct some misconceptions here.  The Lander's quake fault was
indeed known and mapped before the quake.  It's seismic potential had not
been well-studied, however.  I was familiar with the area while at Caltech
and was impressed by the amount of seismicity in that entire section of the
Mojave that includes that fault and several others.  In fact, I used to chat
with people involved with the array as to why more attention was not paid
to that area, given that the zone is one of the most reliably active areas
in southern CA.  I guess the Lander's quake shows why - despite the large
size of the quake, relatively few people were injured or killed and the
dollar amount of damages was modest.  Can you imagine what would happen
if a 7.5 occurred inside LA, and it was reported that the scientists had
been spending thier time studying these obscure faults out in the Mojave?
Still, I find this zone to be the most scientifically interesting in
Southern CA, especially the tectonic implications.  The only significant
quake reported in the area previous to Landers was the 1947 Manix quake,
somewhat to the east.  In 1975, a quake produced surface offset on a fault
parallel to the recently active one (the quake was only a magnitude 5,
however).  Most of the faults here show evidence of recent movement (ie:
the last few thousand years), and a map I just looked at showed at least
15 named faults in the zone.


--
Richard Stead
Center for Seismic Studies
Arlington, VA
stead@seismo.css.gov
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: "Hot, dry weather causes earthquakes"
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 16:01:49 GMT
Distribution: ca

In article <1992Jul22.172704.20914@ttinews.tti.com>,
paulb@harley.tti.com (Paul Blumstein) writes:
>>|> She mentioned that again right after the twin tremors.  Sure enough,
				    ^^^^^
That is part of the key.  Not before, not during, but after.
This is why experimental controls are so important.  If we took
observations like this at face value, then the earthquakes I and others
have felt on glaciers might have concluded that they have something
warning value to say global warming.....  (Locality of effect).

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: sclark@ocf.berkeley.edu (Steven Clark)
Newsgroups: ca.wanted
Subject: WANTED: 44MB Removable Hard Drive (repost)
Date: 26 Jul 1992 16:53:21 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Distribution: ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigbang.berkeley.edu

Subject line says it all. Preferably in a case.
Also need a case for a Removable Hard Drive. 

Please e-mail response to sclark@ocf.berkeley.edu

Newsgroups: ca.wanted
From: jdavis@chico.DHL.COM ()
Subject: sfo/sea tickets wanted
Organization: DHL Systems, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:54:11 GMT

I'm not sure if the 'return email address' I used on previous posting of this 
gets back to me, so if you want to respond please use email address at the end 
of my posting.

I need one RT ticket from the SF Bay area(San Francisco,Oakland,San Jose) to
Seattle for early September.  Got cash in hand ready to deal for anyone
who can help me!

jdavis@ssf-sys.DHL.COM
From: craig@world.std.com (Craig Hubley)
Subject: RIDE WANTED:  SF Bay area to midwest (Chi, Det, Buf) or Boston, NY maybe
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 00:17:22 GMT

RIDE WANTED from San Francisco Bay area (or anywhere relatively nearby, e.g.
Santa Cruz or Sacramento) to anywhere in midwest, preferably Detroit or
Buffalo (if you're going all the way to Toronto, fantastic).  Also an option
to go to Boston where my own car is still parked...!  Very open on arrangements,
dates, driving hours, etc., no smoking in car is only real requirement.

Call Craig at 510-523-2486 and leave a message, or mail craig@world.std.com

Thanks,


-- 
Craig Hubley                    "Constraints are the bones of a design"
Craig Hubley & Associates	consultants in OO, C++, GUI development
craig@world.std.com - Boston          617-322-8574 (days only please)
craig@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca - Toronto  416-969-2826 (24 hours)
From: crmeyer@voodoo.physics.ucsb.edu
Newsgroups: ca.wanted
Subject: Wanted: Info on EPSON MX-80 printer
Date: 27 Jul 92 04:53:16 GMT
Organization: UCSB Physics Department

I have an older Epson MX-80 printer that is automatically inserting line
feeds when it gets a carriage return. There is a 4 and 8 DIP switch bank
on the motherboard. Does anyone know which DIP switch disables this
feature?
                                                Thanks!

                      +-----------------------------------+                    
                      |         Charles R. Meyer          |                    
                      |                                   |                    
                      | Internet: crmeyer@voodoo.ucsb.edu |                    
                      | Bitnet:   crmeyer@voodoo          |                    
                      | HEPnet:   voodoo::crmeyer         |                    

Newsgroups: ca.wanted
From: jdavis@chico.DHL.COM ()
Subject: SFO/SEA ticket wanted
Organization: DHL Systems, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:21:25 GMT

I need a round trip ticket from Bay area (San Francisco,Oakland,San Jose)
to Seattle.  Need to go and return in early September.  

Xref: sparky ca.wanted:984 misc.wanted:7327 misc.consumers:14502 misc.forsale:22069