HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Certification, legislation
Date: 1 Oct 1992 20:19:26 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: cairo

In <1992Sep30.142705.29249@polari>, weka@polari.online.com writes:
>
> In Washington state there has been a movement towards creating
> legislation to govern all guides - the on-water president has added
> to his proposal that all river guides would need to be certified
> in Swiftwater Rescue.

In general, state licensing requirements are nothing more than a
taxation method.  I doubt that passenger safety would be much improved
by licencing of guides.  Empirical evidence indicates the contrary.
For example, in California guides are not licensed, yet river safety
practices are quite good.  By contrast, in Oregon river guides are
licensed, yet you often see passengers not wearing PFDs, and other
shoddy safety practices.

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: Anyone going to Westwater?
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:00:06 GMT

You can expect over 100 people there this weekend.  I'm not going
until the 18th.  This weekend is the Great American Beer
Festival in Denver, who would posibly want to boat over
drinking beer?

--Chris
From: jh26@prism.gatech.EDU (Jay Harrell)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Grumman Canoe
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:12:29 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

>From: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)
>I just bought a 17 foot aluminum Grumman Canoe with seats, oars,
>roof racks, etc., for $250.00.  It was the first (boat) canoe
>that I have bought and wondered if I paid too much.  BTW, I 
>bought it from an elderly lady who had it in her garage and it
>didn't even have numbers on the side because she never used it.
>I would think that it is over 20 years old.

Sniff...  Why don't I ever find deals like this?


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
           Jay Harrell
Georgia Tech Research Institute, CSITL, Atlanta, GA 30332-0800
Internet : jh26@prism.gatech.edu 	Telephone: (404) 894-4266
From: damouth@wrc.xerox.com (David E. Damouth)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Grumman Canoe
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:12:49 GMT
Reply-To: damouth@wrc.xerox.com
Organization: Xerox Webster Research Center

....The keel will make it difficult to turn and ...

There are keelless Grummans - he didn't say which kind he had.

---
/Dave
David E. Damouth
Xerox Webster Research Center
damouth@wrc.xerox.com
voice: 716-422-3186
fax: 716-265-7133
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: prouty@boi.hp.com (Dave Prouty)
Subject: English paddling event in November?
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 14:35:31 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Network Server Division - Boise, ID

Hello,

I spoke earlier this summer with an English gentleman at the Payette
Whitewater Roundup in Idaho. He indicated that they sposored a major
paddling event every November (I believe somewhere between London and
Bristol). Would someone be kind enough to tell me more about this event?
I'm interested in the time, place, ...

I might actually be able to go!


-- 

Dave Prouty
prouty@boi.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy)
Subject: Re: Boating in Costa Rica
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:57:10 GMT


who are you going to Cst Rico with?  I know some folks going on a similar
trip but not sure who is sponsoring it...if you an give me the basics I may
be able to link you up with them?
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: taylor@krusty.ee.udel.edu (Howard Taylor)
Subject: kayak for sale
Keywords: sale
Organization: University of Delaware Graduate
Distribution: rec.boats.paddle
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 21:16:03 GMT

I'm selling an MI 415 kayak made by Vinta USA - its a fast whitewater boat.
Specifics:
	Material:	Polyethylene
	Length	:	13' 8''
	Width	:	24''
	Depth	:	12''
	Volume	:	69 Gal
	Weight	:	35 lbs.
	Hull	:	Side View	Straight with Rise at the Ends
			Top View	Asymmetric
			Front View	Rounded Vee

Asking $300 or best offer.

I hate to sell it, but I just started Grad school, and can use the money....

--> howie

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Howard Taylor				taylor@udel.edu
Electrical Engineering			208 Evans Hall
University of Delaware			Newark, DE 19716
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: whitaker@centurion.cs.unc.edu (Ross Whitaker)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Dry Suits (again)
Date: 6 Oct 92 21:47:22 GMT
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

In article <1992Oct5.190211.28163@news.columbia.edu> dc22@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Dieter Christensen) writes:
>
>
>
>Hi!  I stupidly ignored the email traffic about drysuits a few weeks ago, 
>thinking that I would be just fine and toasty in my wet-suit.  (I've been 
>kayaking for almost six months now...).  But then I went out again last 
>weekend and remembered how cold it gets in autumn and winter, and now I
>want a to get a drysuit immediately (preferably before Friday's trip to 
>Western Pennsylvania...)  
>
>I'm looking at the low-end suits from Kokatat and Dry Fashion and 
>O.S. Systems (who sell a dry suit with built-in booties instead of ankle
>gaskets).  I plan to choose from one of the above tomorrow so that I can 
>receive it before the weekend.


I have no experience with drysuits that have built in booties.  However,
my experience is that booties take a major beating when paddling, especially
if you paddle a squirt boat or other tight fitting boat where your feet
rub when you paddle.  I would be afraid of having my booties as an attached
part of an expensive drysuit.

Just my $0.02.

	Ross


Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy)
Subject: Re: New River Bridge Sighting (like Dead sighting... ;)
Keywords: bridge day,new river
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Distribution: rec
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:54:39 GMT


Bob, that is exactly where that commercial was filmed.  We just missed
them bunging th truck off the bridge..was suppose to be wild!
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: janis@unislc.uucp (Janis Huber)
Subject: kayak for sale
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:12:52 GMT

I am posting this for a friend...please respond to the person named
directly.

Dancer XT for sale with float bags and spray skirt.  $400 for all.
Werner 208cm paddle also available.  Asking price for paddle unknown.

Interested party should call Patti Harrison at (801)-278-1698.
From: tilden@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Robert Tilden)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Kayak advice wanted...
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:07:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Sep28.170707.14010
Distribution: na
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.

I've been co-paddling a Klepper Arius 2 for several years and want to buy a
single for those times when I 'vant to be alone'. I was out in Monterey a
couple of weeks ago, and rented a Sea Lion from Monterey Bay Kayaks. It was
great! The only problem was a tendency to broach, but I had a following sea
and wind at the time. At any rate, I've been looking around for 'my' single
and am trying to decide between the Current Designs Solstice ST and the
Wilderness Systems Sealution/Sealution SS. I understand that the hull
design of the Solstice (fishform) makes it behave a bit better in following
seas than other hull types. I'll take them out for a test ride, of course,
but I'd be interested in thoughts/advice/experiences from some of you
experts.

Bob	tilden@nuhepl.phys.nwu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: IJIM@vm1.spcs.umn.edu (Jim Colten)
Subject: Re: Building a Canoe?
Organization: CIS at U of MN
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:23:45 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.155425.24667@hpcvmcdj.cv.hp.com>
donwr@hpcvmcdj.cv.hp.com (Don Rodgers) writes:
 
>
>As the subject says I am thinking about building a Canoe.  I would welcome
>any advice on this subject.
>
>Wood construction is my primary choice.  Any experiance, recomendations, re-
>sources (books,etc.) that have been used would be welcome.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Don Rodgers
>
>donwr@hpcvmcdj.cv.hp.com
>
 
There are several sources of instructions for building strippers:
 
Stripper's Guide to Canoe Building by David Hazen.  Some of Hazen's techniques
             are a bit unusual and about twenty years 'progress' has happened
             since he wrote the book but one CAN build a boat using only this
             book.
 
Canoe Craft, I do not know the author or publisher, but your friendly local
             bookstore should be able to track it down.  There is a builder
             in western Wisconsin who turns out *VERY NICE* canoes using
             the methods from this book.
 
Canoe magazine sells an instruction book and  a few designs, look in the
             shopper section near the back.
 
Minnesota Canoe Association sells an instruction book and several designs.
             write to MCA/ PO Box 13567/ Dinkytown Station/
             Minneapolis, MN 55414
 
Strip canoes can be built in a *WIDE* variety of sizes and shapes, from
150 lb 20 foot freight canoes to 80 lb bruisewater canoes, to 55 lb 18 ft
tandem cruisers to 40 lb solo canoes to 30 lb racers and everything in
between.
 
There are folks who advertise in Canoe who offer classes in traditional
wood/canvas construction.  Kind of pricey though.
 
Lapstrake (sp?) (aka 'tortured plywood') construction and 'stich & glue'
construction techniques are also used.  They supposedly require less time
for construction.  Being a confirmed stripper fan, I have no idea where
you find out about these other techniques.
 
Jim Colten
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: schultz@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Dennis Schultz)
Subject: Re: Anyone going to Westwater?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date:  6 Oct 92 14:53:45 GMT

weiser@pogo.den.mmc.com (Matt Weiser) writes:
>> >Is there anyone headed for Westwater this weekend?  It seems that it is
>> >going to be popular - I've heard of quite a few groups (ours included)
>> >putting in on Saturday.
>> 
>> I am not going this weekend ("Frostbite Weekend" on WWater can be a zoo)
>> We are running on the 17/18th instead.
>> 
>> If you are running in October, remember that you must still have a permit 
>> to camp anywhere on the section.  This changed as of last year.
>> 
>> hope you called ahead as it will be busy, and I believe all the permits are gone
>

	A.) Permit system is a bust.  I don't know who had permits to camp
Saturday night, but I think I was up and downstream early enough to see
people if they had camped at Little D.  And NO ONE was camped at either
upper or lower campground.  Instead there was 3-4 groups camped between
the miner's cabin and the Little D.  Must have been some self-righteous
Republican (sorry to be redundant) that thought that one up.
	B.) More than 100 people?  Not even close.  There were > 300 cars
at takeout, and > 200 cars at putin.  Probably > 1000 people on river.
Since this number approximately halves each weekend, depending on weather,etc.
figure on 500 next weekend, 250 the next, and so on.
>
From: kevins@offroad.Central.Sun.COM (Kevin Suboski  Sun SE - Detroit)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Sea Kayaking in Maui
Date: 28 Sep 92 09:42:06 GMT
Organization: "Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, CA."
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: offroad.central.sun.com

I will be going to Maui in a few days for a 10 day vacation.  I 
am interested in doing some Sea Kayaking while I am there.  I will
be staying in Kanapali.  Any advice for rental places and places
to see?
From: brianj@bedrock.cs.umd.edu (Brian Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Bridge Jump (was Just missed 1st Gauley...)
Date: 29 Sep 92 01:31:44 GMT
Distribution: rec.boats.paddle
Organization: Computer Science, Univ. of MD, College Park, MD 20742
In-reply-to: jml@visus.com's message of 28 Sep 92 16:16:20 GMT


   (Brian Johnson) writes:
   > [...] A bunch of people
   > (local primarily) [jump off the old bridge at fayette station] attached
   > to one end of an 80' rope!
Jumped off the bridge sans rope again (seems that rope swinging is on
the downturn) prior to Gauley Fest.  Left my butt out too far so
it was similar to, but better than, a kick in the ass:-)

I wasn't so impressed with the Gauley Fest this year.  I kinda liked
it when it was more crowded and intimate.  Pretty soon it'll be a
trade show in a convention center in some nasty big building.

Only good equipment deals seemed to be on Stolquist dry suits.  Lots
of vendors.

Brian
--
Brian Johnson                                       Computer Science Department
brianj@cs.umd.edu                                        University of Maryland
(301) 405-2725                                           College Park, Md 20742

  ...there are no strangers in this world, only friends who have never met...
From: mikeq@aspen.CNA.TEK.COM (Mike Quigley)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Inflatable kayak recommendations.
Date: 28 Sep 92 15:45:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: master.3664
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Redmond,  OR.

>> ... I have now accomplished 2 multi-day trips with only kayaks;
>> one on the Illinois River (starts in California, ends in Oregon), and
>> the Middle Fork of the Salmon.
>
>Verrrrry interesting!  How low can the Middle Fork Salmon, Selway, and
>Illinois be run?  I don't know the Selway, but did you start the Middle
>Fork at Indian Creek, or at the highwater put-in below Dagger Falls?
>Also, what was the California section of the Illinois like?  The only
>section I know of starts downstream of Kerby, which is in Oregon.

VERRRRRRRRRY, Verrrrrrrrrry interesting. I didn't know that the Illinois
started in California?????

I do the Illinois down to 240 cfs, the Middle Fork from the top down to
1.4 feet, the Selway down to 0.9 foot.

Mike
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Inflatable kayak recommendations.
Date: 28 Sep 1992 19:28:04 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: cairo

atb@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Andy Brown) writes:
>
> > Here are the advantages of modern self-bailing IKs:
> 
> 12. They make an awful nice pool toy for the kids

Not so!  Self-bailing IKs hold water for only a few seconds.  Perhaps
this is one way to prevent your children from drowning or contracting
hypothermia, but in drought-plagued California, it can be a tremendous
waste of water.

mikeq@aspen.CNA.TEK.COM (Mike Quigley) writes:
>
> VERRRRRRRRRY, Verrrrrrrrrry interesting. I didn't know that the Illinois
> started in California?????

Actually the Smith and the Illinois are the same river.  Pacific Power &
Light diverts between 50-1000 cfs from the Smith (just below Jedediah Smith
State Park) into the upper Illinois way above Kerby.  So technically the
Illinois does begin in California, although to be fair, parts of the Smith
begin in Oregon, so [bla bla bla].



That isn't as much of a joke as you'd hope.  California has at least three
rivers that disappear into other rivers, for agriculture and power usage.
All year long, at least 200 cfs of the Eel is diverted into the Russian,
at least 300 cfs of the Trinity is diverted into the Sacramento, and about
500 cfs of the McCloud is diverted into the Pit.

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: weka@polari.online.com
Subject: Certification, legislation
Organization: Seattle Online Public Access Unix.  (206) 328-4944 (all lines telebit-equipped)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:27:05 GMT

Two events I have been exposed to recently may be of interest to
this conversation:  In Washington state there has been a movement
towards creating legislation to govern all guides - the on-water 
president has added to his proposal that all river guides would
need to be certified in Swiftwater Rescue.

# 2 - At the recent West Coast Sea Kayak Symposium a movement was
made during the general meeting for the Trade Association of Sea
Kayaking to adopt a program which gives guidelines for instruction 
to companies which teach sea kayaking and these guidelines would hopefully   
cross over to outfitters as well (who generally introduce folks to 
sea kayaking).

As a river guide I am not happy with the proposed legislation or the 
Swiftwater Rescue.  We had a commercial death in this state last summer
and every guide in that company was Swiftwater Rescue - which says to me
that the organization and common sense needed in preventing an accident
are not imparted in a rescue course.  Swiftwater is great for getting boats 
off rocks, swimming people to shore safely, setting up tag lines, etc., but
we shouldn't really be in those situations to begin with.  Already the permint
(permit) system for one of the rivers in WA is requiring one guide to have 
Swiftwater.  Our company is the biggest in the state and has a great safety
record so may be grandfathered in...but if like Idaho, guides will have to
pay a fee each year in order to be active.

The sea kayak community represented at the symposium did not seem interested
in regulation (people were there from all over the country) and voted to set up
self regulating guidelines instead. A committee was set up to oversee the     
formation of the guidelines which will hopefully show government that  
legislation isn't needed.

Imparting common sense to unsafe outfitters will be impossible in either system
and fairly hard to regulate (many work out of the country).

Also-I am ACA certified as an instructor.  The pro-certification aspect is that
at least we know a person who is certified knows certain rudementary aspects
relevent to what they are doing.

For more information about the sea kayaking guidelines, contact      
TASK
Kitty Graham
206-621-1018

Andree
(yes, these opinions are mine and apart from my employer, or whatever)

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: dc22@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Dieter Christensen)
Subject: Dry Suits (again)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:02:11 GMT




Hi!  I stupidly ignored the email traffic about drysuits a few weeks ago, 
thinking that I would be just fine and toasty in my wet-suit.  (I've been 
kayaking for almost six months now...).  But then I went out again last 
weekend and remembered how cold it gets in autumn and winter, and now I
want a to get a drysuit immediately (preferably before Friday's trip to 
Western Pennsylvania...)  

I'm looking at the low-end suits from Kokatat and Dry Fashion and 
O.S. Systems (who sell a dry suit with built-in booties instead of ankle
gaskets).  I plan to choose from one of the above tomorrow so that I can 
receive it before the weekend.

I would greatly appreciate any advice, copies of prior posts, etc...
that might steer me in the right direction...

(BTW: For all of you who plan to run the Monroe Bridge section of the 
Deerfield, Zoar Outdoors in Charlemont (East on Rt. 2) has a nifty selection
of Austrian plastic squirtboats... I forget the brand name...)

Thanks!
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: doshay@ursa.arc.nasa.gov (David Doshay)
Subject: Re: Building a Canoe?
Organization: NASA-Ames Biocomputation Center
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:56:41 GMT

The book I am using is:

Building a Strip Canoe
Gil Gilpatric
De Lorme Publishing Co
P.O. Box 298
Freeport Maine 04032
(207) 865-4171

a book I did not really like is

Building the wood-strip canoe
Stephen A Bolesky
Garden Way Publishing Bulletin A-100


The Gilpatric book is very clear and contains the plans for 8 different
canoes, with descriptions of their intended uses.

David		doshay@soma.arc.nasa.gov

The thought police insist I tell you:
my thoughts, not NASA's
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: K.H.GOODRICH@larc.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: Kayak advice wanted...
Organization: NASA-Langley Research Center
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 11:29:12 GMT

In article <31278@goofy.Apple.COM> tkaczuk.apple.com (Rick Donnelly) writes:
>
>Bob,
>
>I have taken a Solstice out several times. I really like the handling and feel
>of the boat. My only negative comment is that if there are any waves at all,
>you WILL get wet. The boat seems to enjoy punching through waves rather than
>go over same. There are times when I appreciate this in a boat, but when it
>is windy and cold, despite the wetsuit and spray jacket, I tend to want to 
>stay dry until the end of the day when I practice rolls. Still, it is a very
>nice boat and the kevlar version is light enough to manage on your own.
>
I talked to a local dealer about the Solstice the other weekend--she said that
the '93 SS model is having more volume added to the bow.  I'm not sure about
the ST, but it would be worth checking.

K.G.
From: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Grumman Canoe
Date: 6 Oct 1992 01:50:55 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


I just bought a 17 foot aluminum Grumman Canoe with seats, oars,
roof racks, etc., for $250.00.  It was the first (boat) canoe
that I have bought and wondered if I paid too much.  BTW, I 
bought it from an elderly lady who had it in her garage and it
didn't even have numbers on the side because she never used it.
I would think that it is over 20 years old.

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: leonam@aix.rpi.edu (Marcus B. Leonard)
Subject: Re: Grumman Canoe
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 04:38:50 GMT

In article <1aqrdvINNa8n@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aa440@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dale Wedge) writes:
>
>I just bought a 17 foot aluminum Grumman Canoe with seats, oars,
>roof racks, etc., for $250.00.  It was the first (boat) canoe
>that I have bought and wondered if I paid too much.  BTW, I 
>bought it from an elderly lady who had it in her garage and it
>didn't even have numbers on the side because she never used it.
>I would think that it is over 20 years old.

That is a fairly good price for a Grumman if it is in decent condition
(i.e. not too many dents, scratches, holes, and patches).

Most people choose to propel canoes with paddles, rather than with oars.
Does this boat have oarlocks?  Or did you mean paddles?

Canoes will not necessarily have numbers, even if they have been used.
Most states do not require canoes, kayaks, and such to be registered.

One work of warning: aluminum canoes are not well suited to whitewater
or even shallow rivers.  The keel will make it difficult to turn and will
hang up on rocks, and the aluminum hull itself likes to stick to rocks
(where a fiberglass hull would scrape by, and a plastic one would slip
smoothly over).  However, they are nice durable lake and deep-water boats.

Happy paddling (rowing?)

				Marc Leonard
				leonam@rpi.edu

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: jef@netcom.com (Jef Poskanzer)
Subject: Re: IKs, sea touring, and wind
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 21:35:56 GMT
Organization: Paratheo-Anametamystikhood Of Eris Esoteric
Reply-To: Jef Poskanzer <jef@netcom.com>

tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill):
}I wouldn't recommend an inflatable kayak for sea touring.  At least out
}here on the west coast, there's always a lot of wind on the ocean.  You're
}better off with a hardshell sea kayak, because they sit low in the water.
}Inflatables sit on top of the water, so they can get blown around a lot.

This is true, however the winds are also very predictable.  It's quite
possible to plan one-way trips that go with the wind and tide.  For
instance, put in at Muir beach and take out at the north end of the
GG bridge.  Or you can practically drift out to Angel island (watch out
for the hydraulic jump opposite downtown Tiburon) and then hitch a ride
back upwind from a friendly sailboat.
---
Jef

           Jef Poskanzer  jef@netcom.com  jef@well.sf.ca.us
          "I trust no one, not even myself." -- Josef Stalin
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle