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Info-Hams Digest            Tue, 15 Dec 92       Volume 92 : Issue 1318

Today's Topics:
                   2meter purchase - HELP NEEDED!!!
                           2m rig in Europe
                     Clever phonetics wanted WN3K
                                DXers
                        frequency inversion? 
                FT-790 power control for OSCAR use...
            Hams are cheapskates (was: Overpriced TNC's) 
                         Heathkit info wanted
                      Info-Hams Digest V92 #1299
                       License delays (3 msgs)
                           Longwires at VHF
           Not quite a ham question -- Kids Walkie-talkies
                  Tuning SSB using an adjustable BFO
                           Weak signal VHF

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <Info-Hams@UCSD.Edu>
Send subscription requests to: <Info-Hams-REQUEST@UCSD.Edu>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu.

Archives of past issues of the Info-Hams Digest are available 
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/info-hams".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:19:25 GMT
From: ftpbox!mothost!white!rtsg.mot.com!guppie12!thweatt@uunet.uu.net
Subject: 2meter purchase - HELP NEEDED!!!
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

I am interested in purchasing a Kenwood Model TR-2400 2m FM Synthesized
Radio and would like to ask the users of this net's advise.  This radio
will be purchased for $125 which includes a battery, recharger, base platform,
(which lets you plug in the radio allowing interface to power and antenna).

This radio has a some what burned-out LCD Display, a Frequency Range of 144.000 
to 147.995 MHz wiht +/- 750 Hz at 25oC (for section of 5KHz channels), 800 
channels, 10 memory channels, automatic memory scanning (for 'busy' or 
'open' channels), Built-in touch-tone generator using 16-button keyboard,
UP/DOWN manual scanning from 143.900 to 148.495 MHz in single or fast 
continuous 5-KHz steps.  Even operates on MARS repeaters within this range
by using memory O for transmit offset frequency,  etc... I think you can
seperate receive and transmit by 600Hz??

Transmitter Section: RF output power 1.5 Watts, Max. Freq. Dev +/- 5KHz, Less
than -60dB spurious Radiation

Receiver Section:  Double superheterodyne, 1st IF 10.7MHz, 2nd IF 455kHz.
Sensitivity Less thank 0.2 uV for 12dB SINAD.

The main reason for buying this radio, is to allow phone patch service in
case of an emergency.  I want to make sure I can get the coverage I need.
For those of you that know the IL area, we live around Crystal Lake and
would like to have coverage from there to Northbrook.  I understand that
we will need to join a repeater (or maybe two) but I would like to make
sure that this is a sufficient radio to have the coverage and features 
we will need.  It has been indicated that I might also need a antenna for
the car and might need an upgraded battery??? What does one of these antennas
cost?  Does anyone know what repeaters we would need to use?  Does this sound
like it would be a good radio for my needs?  Does anyone know of any better
deals for my application?  I would like to make sure that if the battery
dies that I could still use this radio (remember it is targeted for case of
emergencies - a dead battery maybe a good reason to use the radio).  Your
help is needed since I need to make up my mind by Friday (12/18/92).

Thanks,
John T.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:14:45 GMT
From: nwnexus!seanews!peterk@uunet.uu.net
Subject: 2m rig in Europe
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

As for accessing European repeaters that require a tone burst, rather
than the PL tones we all know and love.  There are European model rigs
that have a tone burst feature. Or you could build a simple audio
oscillator to the correct frequency. Or you could use a low-tech
solution.  Follow Lauren Bacall's advice in the movie "To Have and Have
Not:"

    "You know how to whistle, don't you, Steve? You just put your lips
     together and. . . blow."

I know this sounds facetious, but actually, it's how a lot of the old
timers used to access repeaters in this country when they first came
out. If whistling is too difficult or you can't get the right pitch, go
to a music store and pick up a small penny whistle or a sopranino
recorder. 1750 Hz is only 10 hz flatter than the note A two octaves and
a sixth above Middle C.

Not very convenient, but cheap, and it will work.   :-) 

Beyond that, I suggest contacting the manufacturer or your rig.  Ask if
the tone burst feature can be retrofitted without too much physical,
psychological or financial damage. 

Hope this helps  --Peter Klein, KD7MW
-- 
--Peter (Peter A. Klein)            :    -----==3==      ___      ___
peterk@seanews.akita.com            :   |    |  |  |    |   |    |   |
                                    :  @|   @| @| @|   @|  @|   @|  @|

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:40:36 GMT
From: usc!rpi!rs6221.ecs.rpi.edu!maessm@network.UCSD.EDU
Subject: Clever phonetics wanted WN3K
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

In article <1992Dec15.150912.8809@udel.edu>, penneys@pecan.cns.udel.edu (robert penneys) writes:

|> We Need Three ..........
|> Tnx   Bob WN3K  FRC

We Need Three Kings?

73 de N 2 New Jersey Zebra
-- 
Mat Maessen   N2NJZ		| maessm@rpi.edu
------------------------------- |-----------------------------------
W2SZ/1 - #1 in the ARRL June VHF QSO Party - again!
--------------------------------|-----------------------------------
The opinions expressed in this message definitely do NOT reflect the
views of RPI, Roland Schmitt, or BAPP
--------------------------------------------------------------------
(c) 1992 Fake-sig Co., Inc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 15 Dec 92 20:46:54 GMT
From: usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!oo7@network.UCSD.EDU
Subject: DXers
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

zslf08@trc.amoco.com (Steven L. Farmer WA5RPF) says:

In article <BXTJVB2w164w@ham.almanac.bc.ca>, emd@ham.almanac.bc.ca writes:
[stuff deleted...]
> DX'ers are pests. They are noisy, rude and inconsiderate. (And that's not 
> even mentioning the cheats who use lists).

You simply don't hear the dxers who refrain from boorish behavior.  We are
most assuredly in the majority, and it's a mistake to generalize from the
rudeness of a few to insult all of us.  Our world has an ample supply of
bigotry already.  Please don't add more.
---------------------

Steve is right.  You hardly ever hear Real[tm] DXers on the air.   They
lurk, listen, tune around, pounce, then repeat ad lib.  I spend perhaps
2 mins out of every hour actually transmitting, and the rest listening.

What I find inconsiderate is the people who get on 20m SSB in the morning
to discuss the weather with friends in the next state, right on top of a
DX station that you can only hear for half an hour at that time of day,
and then many dB below the chattering.  It's so depressing to tune the
band for Asian stations, and have to listen to OFs ragchewing over their
first cup of coffee.

I would love to see a band plan that restricted same-continent QSOs to
one section of the band, leaving another part for intercontinental QSOs.
I'm not optimistic that it would ever work, of course.

Anyway, as Steve says, it is ridiculous to judge a whole class of people
by the excesses of the few.  I wonder what has happened to logic when I
read the periodic posts that say "all the people causing trouble on 14313
are Extras, proving that the cw tests are meaningless".  It's like he
Europeans believing that all Americans are rich, simply because the only
ones they see are the ones rich enough to travel to Europe.

Anyway, the Real DX is done on cw, so nyah nyah.


Derek Wills (AA5BT, G3NMX)
Department of Astronomy, University of Texas, 
Austin TX 78712.  (512-471-1392)
oo7@astro.as.utexas.edu 
oo7@emx.utexas.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 16:49:05 GMT
From: netcon!xenon!skyld!jangus@locus.ucla.edu
Subject: frequency inversion? 
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

In article <9212111659.AA12355@ucsd.edu> jds@emclab.ATt.COM writes:

  > Anyone know how "frequency inversion" encryption works?  i.e.
  > 
  > - How do you encode the source?
  > - How do you decode the result?

  A couple of mixers, listen to LSB with the radio in USB mode for an idea
  of how it sounds.

  > - Can this be done in a relatively small space ( 1 or 2 in^2 pcb )

  yes. An even more "evil" method, a Variable split band scrambling module
  is available that is only 2.100" by 0.575" (See source below)

  >   or is there more to the hardware/glue logic?
  > - Is this a trivial encryption scheme, or are there differing "keys"
  >   to encode/decode with?

  Variable is by no means trivial with this package having 4 Meg of key
  combinations. But it is STILL simple to implement.

  > And finally, can these functions be performed post-mic but pre-xmtr, 
  > and subsequently post-recvr but pre-speaker?  That is, is the encryption
  > done on the audio frequencies at both ends?

  Yes indeed! Great fun to throw in the old hand held. Should make interesting
  reading to your response to the FCC on an order to show cause for use in
  the amateur bands. Note: I know you included the disclaimer about encryption,
  I'm just joking about the OSC.

  By the way, I bought thier "standard cordless phone voice inversion" chip
  set. Now I just throw a switch on the old scanner when the go "private".

  MX Com, Inc. Mixed mode analog/digital IC's an excellent Data Book
  available from MX Com, Inc. 4800 Bethania Station Road.
  Winston-Salem, NC 27105-1201 Phone 1 (919) 744-5050

xenon!skyld!jangus   < .sig on vaction until winter solstice>
US Mail: PO Box 4425 Carson, CA 90749-4425   1 (310) 324-6080

------------------------------

Date: 15 Dec 92 20:01:59 GMT
From: gossip.pyramid.com!pyramid!weitek!johnm@uunet.uu.net
Subject: FT-790 power control for OSCAR use...
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

I want to use my FT-790 as the uplink in my OSCAR system. One shortcoming
of this radio is that it has limited power control (low and high). Is
there a way of using an output attenutator on the 25W in order to vary
it between, say 1/2W -> 20W. Maybe there is a mod to this radio to do
this ? Any advice would be appreciated...

John N6RCD.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 16:34:02 GMT
From: netcon!xenon!skyld!jangus@locus.ucla.edu
Subject: Hams are cheapskates (was: Overpriced TNC's) 
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

In article <Dec11.171013.20577@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> gw214790@LANCE.ColoState.Edu writes:

  > I'm not cheap.  I'm poor.  Just because I don't have a cushy job somewhere
  > and have to WORK for a living doesn't make me cheap or second class, and I
  > resent people who think we all have big savings accounts and should have
  > all the bells and whistles they can afford.

  That ain't the point. The "cheapskates" are the ones you see circling around
  the swap meets that want you to sell them that TS-820 for $50 and include
  the manuals and original shipping containers. The "cheapskates" are the ones
  that spend $5000 for an antenna and tower and then use $0.95 radio shack UHF
  connectors and wonder why thier Ultra 2K vaporized them. The "cheapsaktes"
  are the ones that can ALWAYS do what ever you've done better and cheaper,
  although they never have.

xenon!skyld!jangus   < .sig on vaction until winter solstice>
US Mail: PO Box 4425 Carson, CA 90749-4425   1 (310) 324-6080

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:11:13 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewsi!kaye@network.UCSD.EDU
Subject: Heathkit info wanted
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

Hi Folks,
A friend of mine (W8APT) just inherited a Heathkit HW-16 CW
transceiver and it's brother, the HG-10 vfo.   They haven't 
been used for years and think they're in retirement yet. We 
want to bring them back to life and put them on the air even  
though it's only CW. ;-)  We have no manuals or information
on them other than an ad that I found in a 1963 QST. I would
like a copy of the schematics.   Tube pin resistances and 
operating voltages would be helpful.   Actually, I welcome
any information on these including stories of using them. I 
will repay expenses of course.  Thank you kindly and sincerely.

73                  
Kaye Hartman, KD8EK          internet: kaye@cbnewsi.cb.att.com    
1305 Coonpath Rd.,NW.           email: att!cbqaa!klh 
Lancaster, Ohio 43130

------------------------------

Date: 15 Dec 92 21:14:54 GMT
From: news-mail-gateway@ucsd.edu
Subject: Info-Hams Digest V92 #1299
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

Will

>>	I did not think the 5100 or the 5200 had cross band repeat
capabilities.		<<

CBR is not something they advertise.  In fact all mine had was a little slip of
paper dropped into the info packet.  I still have not tried it to see what
really happens with it.  But since my note went out I have read that what some
manufacturers are doing is using the mobile radio to receive on one one band
and transmit on the other band.  The sneaky thing is you have to be able to
hear the other guy on simplex, which kinda defeats the whole idea.  It makes
since considering that the manual says it only transmits on the main channel
and not the subband channel.  I have _not_ tried it yet so I don't know the
absolute straight 'skinny' on it.

>>	...allow remote control of the unit via DTMF from another radio	<<

No, the system does not allow remote control.

Ass I discover more about the radio I will let you know.

73 de N5PWP
__mike
MBeez.HoustonCSSC@Xerox.COM

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:35:30 GMT
From: usc!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!icon.rose.hp.com!lkraft@network.UCSD.EDU
Subject: License delays
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

	We tested some folks on Sept. 12,  ARRL sent paperwork to FCC
	on Sept. 30, and they received their licenses the week of 
	Dec. 3.  That works out to 8-9 weeks.

	L


 ==========================================================================
 
                             Lyle Kraft               AA6LK 
 #####################       Hewlett-Packard
 ######  /_  _  ######       Systems Interface Lab - 
 #####  / / /_/  #####          Systems Technology Division
 ######    /    ######       Roseville, CA 95747             
 #####################       916-785-5798
                             lkraft@core.rose.hp.com
                             lyle_kraft@hp5200
 ==========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:54:07 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!caen!uvaarpa!concert!samba!usenet@network.UCSD.EDU
Subject: License delays
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

16 weeks?  SIXTEEN WEEKS?  I'm very closely approaching the six week
period, which the ARRL VEC said was average, and I think I'd die
if I had to wait four months for my license.

Does it take longer to get your license if you're upgrading vs. a new
license?  If they're going to assign a priority for processing, I'd
hope it's with new licenses, since those expecting upgrades can
suffer with their old call and "Temporary Kwhatever" unlike folks
like me waiting for their first license.  The mailman likely thinks I'm
expecting lottery winnings or something as I'm always waiting for the
mail.  

Any more info on this would be appreciated.

-ks

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 21:24:23 GMT
From: swrinde!gatech!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!huey.met.fsu.edu!jeff@network.UCSD.EDU
Subject: License Delays
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

We tested on October 6.  I called the FCC today (Tuesday) and got 90 days
for an answer.  None of our examinees have received their tickets yet.

Jeff, N4TRY
FSU Meteorology Dept.
Tallahassee, FL

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:59:19 GMT
From: swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!fauern!lrz-muenchen.de!regent!buettneb@network.UCSD.EDU
Subject: Longwires at VHF
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

alanb@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Alan Bloom) writes:

>In rec.radio.amateur.misc, 9210466@ul.ie writes:

>>    Anyone out there used longwires on VHF and above?

>A rhombic is basically a 4-element longwire.  I have heard of people

VK5MC is using two rhombics for his EME work (i.e. moon bounce).
Both are fixed, one for Europe, the other for North America. 
Whenever the moon is in the right positio, he's got about
20 minutes time for one or two QSOs.

The times when VK5MC is on the moon can be easily calculated and
the dates and times are given in W4ZD's moon calendar.

73 Ben

--
[] 
[] Bernhard Buettner (Ben)
[]      Mail: Am Brunnen 18, 8011 Kirchheim, Germany
[] Telephone: +49-89-9046389

------------------------------

Date: 15 Dec 92 20:42:27 GMT
From: spsgate!mogate!newsgate!usenet@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Not quite a ham question -- Kids Walkie-talkies
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

I know this is a tangential subject, but I figured if anyone would have the
answer, this group would.

I have recently bought my 6 year-old (currently learning morse towards a novice license) 
his second set of walkie-talkies.  It is frustrating because they all seem to now have
such low power that they are totally ineffective from one end of the house to the other.
I remember when I was a kid, they used to be useful between our's and our neighbor's 
houses.

What's the deal?  Have output power on these been reduced?  Is their anyway one could
boost the power a little to make them more useful--keeping them legal of course?

email appreciated: cottle@prism.sps.mot.com
--
Rick Cottle
N7ZZD

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:52:54 GMT
From: nwnexus!seanews!peterk@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Tuning SSB using an adjustable BFO
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

Emailed this to an as-radfo in Bristol, UK. It bounced, so I'm posting it 
instead. Hope it helps someone.


The basic idea is to offset your BFO about 1.5 kHz from center, and then
tune in the signal until the pitch sounds right. You set the BFO on one
side for USB and the other side for LSB.  For protables with only .1 kHz
resolution in the main dial, you will have to make a couple of marks on
your BFO dial for the approximate USB and LSB points, tune it as close
as possible with the main dial, and then tweak the BFO to get it just
right.
 
For USB, you tune your BFO below the "center" and tune your main dial
the same amount of offset above the actual suppressed carrier frequency.
For LSB, it's the reverse--you turn the BFO above center and the main
tune below. So you see, SSB means setting the BFO an main tune dials
"wrong," but each in the opposite direction! Your BFO may be calibrated
+ or -, but who knows if this refers to the actual frequency of the BFO
or the signal it's going to receive?
 
To calibrate the BFO, you can use a known USB and LSB signal.
Alternately adjust the BFO and main dial until you find a spot that
reproduces the voice best, and mark that spot with a colored pencil,
piece of tape, etc. It the BFO is tuned too far off center, only the
"highs" will be reproduced, and the voice will sound tinny, even though
you have the signal tuned in right. If the BFO is too close to center,
the signal will sound bassy.  As for known USB and LSB signals, use the
ham bands. Ham voice signals around 3.7 or 3.8 - 4.0 Mhz ( I forget the
UK allocations for voice, but you should find something in that general
area, especially at night) and about 7.050-7.1 mHz are LSB.  Signals in
the 14.1 - 14.35 and 21.2 - 21.45 range are USB.
 
To get an approximate idea of where to initially set your BFO, tune in
an regular AM station that is doing only voice, not music. Now turn on
your BFO. Tune the main dial to the exact frequency (a plain old MW
broadcast station is best, since you can look up the frequency in your
local paper).  Now rock the BFO back and forth. You'll find a center
point where there is no tone, with a tone of rising pitch being
generated as you move the BFO to either side of this point. Mark the
center point. Now turn the BFO dial in either direction until you get a
tone of about E-fla E-flat two octaves and a third above middle C on the
piano. If I remember my acoustics right, that is about 1.5 kHz. Mark the
spot. Now move the BFO to the other side of center, generate the same
pitch, and mark the spot again.
 
So you see, you can find the spot by trial and error, or by getting it
about right and then using trial and error to get it right on.  But once
you've found the spot, you mark it, and the rest is easy.
 
Tuning SSB does take practice. Once you get it "in your ear," thought,
ti will become second nature. Having a a main dial with a resolution of
only 0.1 kHz means that you will often have to tweak the BFO slightly to
get it exactly right, but this is no big deal once you know how.
 
Once you've found your BFO points, you can practice by tuning any AM 
signal as an SSB signal. And guess what--doing that is the manual 
equivalent of the expensive "synchronous" tuning feature found on the 
Sony 2010, etc. If there is interference on one side of a SW broadcast 
station, you can reduce or eliminate it by tuning the desired station as 
an SSB signal, using the side band that is on the opposite side of the 
signal from the interference. I've been doing it for years.  It also 
helps reduce selective fading distortion in some cases.
 
Hope this helps, best to you-- Peter Klein, KD7MW

--
[] SEANEWS [] Seattle Public Access Usenet News + Mail [] +1 206 747 NEWS []
peterk@seanews.akita.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 11:25:23 PST
From: usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!serval!wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu!WEBBG@network.UCSD.EDU
Subject: Weak signal VHF
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu

In article <14570559@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com>
alanb@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Alan Bloom) writes:
 
>
>In rec.radio.amateur.misc, gws@n8emr.cmhnet.org (Gary Sanders) writes:
>
>>In article <9212101250.AA04075@ucsd.edu> MROWEN%STLAWU.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu (Michael Owen W9IP) writes:
>>>
>>>The most cost-effective way to get on 2m SSB/CW is probably
>>>a transverter.  It will also give marginally better performance.
>
>>I have heard this and see several magazines say the same thing but
>>I have never found this to be true.. Just finding a transverter is
>>often difficult, used units are rare, new units tend to be expensive.
>
>It's true that transverters are harder to come by than the multi-mode
>VHF/UHF rigs.  But most of my friends who are serious moonbounce /
>weak-signal types use transverters.  The reason is that you can get
>much better performance from a good HF radio than the available
>SSB/CW VHF/UHF transceivers.
>
>AL N1AL
>
 
Where can I get 2m and 70cm transverters? I already have an HF rig, so its
kinda stupid to let it go to waste.
 
BTW kits don't bother me.
 
Geoff
+--------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
|  Geoffrey Webb N7ZRR                 |  Internet: webbg@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu  |
|  Systems Analyst/Programmer II       |  Bitnet:   webbg@wsuvm1              |
|  Washington State University         |  Amprnet:  n7zrr@AA7GV.##wa.ampr     |
|  Pullman WA 99163                    |  Phone:    (509) 335-4213            |
+--------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

End of Info-Hams Digest V92 #1318
******************************