HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows)
Subject: Re: Anime will destroy animation as we know it... NOT!!!
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 01:30:13 GMT


Something Kevin may have missed:

Apparently this "girls with guns" stuff MUST be selling rather well,
if the major animation companies are going to sub/dub it.  I don't
think that IT is in any danger of drying up, so why should regular
animation be because of it?

Personally, I tend to enjoy Dirty Pair, and a lot of other Japanese
animation with large-eyed characters.  I would rather watch such
shows than Disney stuff any day (though I may go to see Aladdin 
for the heck of it).  Why?  BECAUSE of the eyes.  Because it's not
the same old same old stuff like I see on American TV every day.
Because it's DIFFERENT.

Unlike certain people, however, I do not tell everybody off about
it, nor do I try to convince anyone else that they should subscribe 
to my opinion.  Frankly, I don't give a flying f*** what other people
think about it, as long as I can still enjoy it myself.  If people
start trying to take it away, that's when I get mad.

--
Chris Meadows  | Editor of Robotech: The Misfold; author of other               
CHM173S@SMSVMA | Robotech/Rifts stories; DEFENDER of PALLADIUM BOOKS!!!         
CHM173S@VMA.SMSU.EDU   | NOTE: I will be on vacation 12/17 to 1/10; if          
CMEADOWS@NYX.CS.DU.EDU | important, please email; posts tend to expire.
From: Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Kevin-style Aladdin review (thanks Ryan!)
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov 17 1992
Date: 14 Dec 92  03:55:24

 IO>   Thanks, Kevin, for such a wonderful style for movie "reviews"!
 No problem! I'll get up the reviews when I rent more stuff out later. :)
 IO>   [In all seriousness, see Aladdin many times -- 
 IO> it's worth it.  I didn't 
 IO>   even mind the little kids kicking the back of my 
 IO> seat.  Siskel and Ebert
 IO>   may not think it's as good as Beauty and the 
 IO> Beast, but I think it's better.
 IO>   IMHO, of course.  Your mileage will vary.]
 Glad you liked it better than "Beauty and the Beast"... Heck, even the
sountrack to it is kicking some butt... I think it is up to #22 nationally an 
here in the LA area (according to the LA TIMES last Sunday) is already at
#7!!! (Right up there with all the high-selling rap records and Michael
Bolton).  
 Which brings me to a question?  I know many songs from many hit Japanimation 
features are on CD and fans like to buy these CD (soundtracks).  Just like
people now are buying the Aladdin soundtrack big time.  I was wondering if any 
one particular song in Japanimation got so popular that it was heard all over 
the place on Japan radio (i.e. hit radio over there) and so forth and/or
release on single and made top 10 for that single.  I want to know because I
was quite suprised (pleasently) when the theme song for "Beauty and the Beast" 
made 10 ten SALES (as a single) (oops that's top ten) and was even #1 (yep #1) 
at many record shops here in the LA area.  (Local radio also made it the #1
song for 2 weeks earlier this year).  And that I figured was quite good
considering it was competing against the usual high-selling rap and hard rock 
singles at that time.  
 Any info on this would be appriciated, I for one who think that at least 1
song made for Japanimaiton would become quite popular enough to be heard on
radio and sell well on it''s own in Japan (conidering the # of Japanimation
CD's out).  Afterall, 1 song here based on an animated feature has made it
very BIG here (and could be 2 with "A Whole New World") and that is something 
I never thought could happen given that there aren't that many CD
(soundtracks) out for American animation save for the Disney stuff really.  

--- Maximus 2.00
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: mwdenney@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Michael W. Denney)
Subject: Re: School House Rock
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:34:57 GMT

In article <1992Dec5.174314.23822@news2.cis.umn.edu> donnell@manowar.micro.umn.edu (BogusMan) writes:
>In article <1992Dec4.163525.28080@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows) writes:
>>
>>As far as I know, the little round character only identified himself
>>by saying, "Hi, time for Timer!" at the beginning of one of his seg-
>>ments.  He related directly to nutrition, etc.
>>
>>"When I'm feeling slow on the draw and need something to chaw, I
>>hanker for a hunk of cheese..."   "Here we are inside your body
>>where this noisy empty space is your stomach getting angry 'cause
>>there's no food in the place."  "...you'll have a fun time eating
>>sunshine on a stick!"
>
>Was it Timer that did the cheese song? I thought it was another character,
>like a cowboy. Gads, it's been a long time.

I *think* it was Timer in a cowboy hat and boots.  Maybe this explains
your memories.

Michael 
 a.k.a. The Phantom Scribbler

- The big bad wolf, he learned the rule.
- You gotta get hot to play real cool!

Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Lady Johanna Constantine)
Subject: Re: Japanimation reviews con't (may contain SPOILERS)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:44:05 GMT

Hey Kev, I think you should get someone to
show you Wandering Child.  Really, I think it's
right up youe alley.

I mean that.  Enjoy.
-- 
Lady Johanna Constantine | "When you remove the pin, Mr Hand
tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu    |  Grenade is no longer your friend"
Founder of the Church of Our Lady of the Perpetually Clueless
Disclaimer: The U of I doesn't give a damn or blast WHAT I do
From: msr@kepler.unh.edu (Reno no BAKA)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: ANIME VS. DISNEY was Re: Cheap animation
Date: 17 Dec 1992 20:58:39 GMT
Organization: None what-so-ever
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

In article <n11a9t@ofa123.fidonet.org> Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:

[ Lot's of Kev's blah blah deleted ]

> You want Miyazaki to do babes-in-armor?  Just like there are other companies 
>that will do other stuff.  The same is true in Japan, if you want
>babes-in-armor you look for the AIC (whatever that means) logo on the
>Japanimation you are buying. 
>
>--- Maximus 2.00

Well, Kushana was a babe in armor (even though she was missing an arm in the 
movie) and Nausicaa wore armor in the manga. Nausicaa even uses a gun (oh no).
There is a lot of blood and gore in the manga (and in the movie, to a lesser 
extent). I am supprised you like Miyazaki at all (just because of this movie).
Anyone else getting real sick of this thread!?!?!
-- 
Mathew Reno (no BAKA) *The German Cannons - BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM!  *
msr@kepler.unh.edu    *                     BOOM BOOM BOOM!       *
M_RENO@UNHH.UNH.EDU   *                     BOOOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM!*
______________________*                     "Boom boom boom!?"    *
Pres. ANIME-BAKA CLUB *                     "How'd you guess?"    *
----------------------*--------------------------------------------
"May the Yule log slip from the fire and burn down your house."
From: emru@CAM.ORG (Emru Townsend)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: Kevin-style Aladdin review (thanks Ryan!)
Date: 15 Dec 92 18:26:38 GMT
Organization: MegaCorp Central Complex

In article <n118bt@ofa123.fidonet.org> Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:
> Any info on this would be appriciated, I for one who think that at least 1
>song made for Japanimaiton would become quite popular enough to be heard on
>radio and sell well on it''s own in Japan (conidering the # of Japanimation
>CD's out).  Afterall, 1 song here based on an animated feature has made it
>very BIG here (and could be 2 with "A Whole New World") and that is something 
>I never thought could happen given that there aren't that many CD
>(soundtracks) out for American animation save for the Disney stuff really.  

What about "Somewhere Out There" from American Tail?  That *still* plays on
the radio...
-- 
This message is brought to you by     |    Emru Townsend  BIX: switch
MACHEESMO, a MAN's kind of cheese!    |    emru@cam.org   Fido: 1:167/133
From: Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: Japanimation reviews con't (may contain SPOILERS)
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov 17 1992
Date: 14 Dec 92  04:19:54

> that did things that suggested she was a lesbian!!!!!

 U> Big deal.
 BIG DEAL???  Oh boy, so now let's have lesbianism in animation!!  We have
already gone far enough have we???   From what I saw here, I'm afraid to see
if anybody has tried to put lesbanism in animation!!! I wonder if there are is 
cheap animation like this that has 2 lesbians (saucered-eye probably) making
out with each other.  Take THAT back, that reminds me of this one awful piece 
of cheap animation where at the very beginning 2 saucered-eye girls WERE
KISSING EACH OTHER and in bed, I saw it at a recent comic book convention. 
Don't ask me the name of it, but it feature some weird mecha and weird cyborgs 
(females).  One of them who had a teenage girl (big and saucered-eye) pilot
her robot.  
 This is what I call pathetic, OK so there is this "girls with guns" crap,
bloody animation, nudity, sex...OK OK OK... But do we have to go even LOWER
with lesbianism like I saw in that one film I mentioned?  I would think there 
would be a limit, even it it was pretty low... But I guess I'm wrong again...
 And don't tell me this stuff is made for the homosexual audience either...
That's like saying "girls for guns" anime is for females... Complete BS.  
 I also heard some of the prono animation and comics over there were
lesbianism dominated... Is THIS TRUE?  
 But I guess it is just a BIG DEAL?? How low can you go?? 

--- Maximus 2.00
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: vgriscep@wam.umd.edu (VGR (Craig Pell))
Subject: Re: Humans in Transformers
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 04:25:15 GMT

In article <TlT=8N+@engin.umich.edu> rgaines@engin.umich.edu (Robert A Gaines) writes:
>>
>>And then when little Spikey grew up, he had a son named Danny.  
>
>	Possibly a stupid question, but that's never stopped me before...
>Do we know who Daniel's *mother* is?  She was the blonde woman who would 
>show up in an episode from time to time, but to my knowledge, they never
>referred to her by name.  I always figured that it was Carly (she was Spike's 
>girlfriend, and had similar hair), but I don't remember ever hearing it 
>confirmed.

You should've watched more episodes!  There was one, where Spike was acting
as an emissary of Earth, and he'd brought his family with him.  An Autobot
introduced them as "Spike Witwicky (same last name as in the comic!), his
wife Carly, and their son Danny."  (replied to with:  "My, what a darling
post-embryonic form!")

Anyway, I noticed even in "Five Faces of Darkness" that Spike's wife sounded
just like his girlfriend Carly from before the Movie (Spike was 15 then ---
that's some relationship).

I wonder how Carly reacted when she learned Danny's spine was broken, and
he was stuck as a permanent Headmaster?
-- 
      | $000C35FA                  <>-----=------------------------=----=----<>
 VGR  | (1812 Overture)            | "The size of the brain is no measure of  |
      | I GIVE UP                  | its capacity."   - Mr. Jonathan Frisby   |
      | YOU MUST BE A  VIDEO WHIZ  <>-----=---------=------------------------<>
From: Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: On the various flamewars in rec.arts.animation
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov 17 1992
Date: 15 Dec 92  04:09:04

 EK> Anime vs. Disney:
 EK>       "Anime is better than Disney because anime <is a banana>, while
 EK>        on the other hand Disney <is blue>."  Geez.
 EK>       [Quite frankly, I'd rather not have a grim-n-gritty story from
 EK>        Disney.  For one thing, their "look" 
 EK> wouldn't adapt to it at all.]

 EK> To Ryan Gavigan:
 EK>       Chill.  The last thing this world needs is another
 EK>       foaming-at-the-mouth fanatic.

 EK> To Kevin Kline:
 EK>       Chill.  So you don't like *some* of the anime brought over here,
 EK>       mainly because of the character designs.  So?  It's not the
 EK>       end of the world or anything.  [Oh, and I'd tone down the use
 EK>       of the word "slut", if I were you.  It's REALLY offensive to
 EK>       our female readers, and quite inappropriate for most of the
 EK>       characters you describe.]
 Good idea... I will back off with the word slut.  I don't want to turn this
into a flame war over "cheap animation" vs. quality animation.  But I am very 
happy to see that we can discuss and debate animation here without too many
problems so far (and I have learned a lot of insight because of it).  Not to
mention seeing that all Japanimation isn't all junk.  And hey, maybe there is 
hope more than what I thought.
 I will aplogize for calling Central Park Media a lousy company all the time. 
 I didn't realize they plan to release "Grave of the Fireflies" soon (which
comes as a suprise since they mostly released "girls with guns" trash before, 
and had that "I Give My All" fiasco).  Maybe this is a change in attitude over 
there towards more quality Japanimation, at least it shows they are awake in
getting stuff other than "girls with guns".  Still waiting for AnimEigo to get 
something good, their subtilting is awesome, but the stuff they bring out is
another story.

--- Maximus 2.00
From: bw286@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Cleveland A. Hardin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: New Pink Panther series to appear this fall.
Date: 16 Dec 1992 00:22:31 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


According to the Dec. 7 issue of Broadcasting magazine there will be
a new series of Pink Panther cartoons to run in syndication in the
fall of '93.  MGM has authorized the production of 40 episodes.
For the first time the PP will have a voice.  Pink Panther last appeared
in a series on Saturday mornings on NBC and ABC during the late '70s.

It was a strange coincidence for me when I read this because had just
been thinking about how good some those old ones were.  I'm not sure
how well his speaking will go over though.
-- 
C.A. Hardin     | hardcle@elof.iit.edu       |"Men Rule.           | Being
PO Box 805862   | HARDCLE@IITVAX.BITNET      | Rap Sucks.          | weird
Chicago,IL 60680| chardin@nyx.cs.du.edu      | Eat Fatty Foods."   | isn't
USA             | bw286@cleveland.freenet.edu|-Oliver Wendell Jones| enough
From: Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: Please, move anime posts from rec.arts.animation to rec.ar
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov 17 1992
Date: 18 Dec 92  17:58:50

 BW>       May I plead an end to the tread of argument 
 BW> between Anime and Animation
 BW>       which has been heating up for the past week, 
 BW> and please don't again get
 BW>       this into rec.arts.anime. R.a.anime has been 
 BW> through with this a lot of 
 BW>       times in the past already, and whatever 
 BW> happening from R.a.animation
 BW>       will inevitably creat another unwanted, band-
 BW> width wasting flame war
 BW>       in r.a.anime.

 BW>       American Animation and Japanese Anime each 
 BW> has its differences, has
 BW>       its goods and bads (which highly depended on 
 BW> individual's preferences),
 BW>       and it's not worth arguing and bashing to 
 BW> death because that will
 BW>       _never_ end. 
 Good point there.  I think everyone has had enough of this discussion (even I 
didn't know it would go THIS far!).  The important thing is now is to keep
these subs seperate (rec.arts.anime and rec.arts.animation) for what they are. 
 I have no intention of posting on rec.arts.anime on my views on most anime. 
 I would appriciate if though we can keep rec.arts.animation a sub to discuss 
other forms of animation and lot let this sub look like rec.arts.anime at all. 
 Afterall you people who like the "girls with guns" and saucered-eye people
have your own sub, and I for one respect that.  
 Thank you for all the information on anime and what is good and what isn't so 
good.  We may not agree, but at least we all have an idea what people like and 
dislike and more importantly ways to help animation become more established
and ways to prevent it from going down the toilet.  
 I think everyone is tired of this (including me) and I will now stop this
thread for the most part, provided that rec.arts.animation here doesn't become 
a place for pro "girls with guns" and/or saucered-eye people like
rec.arts.anim  I would like to see this sub be a place to talk about stuff
happening here in terms of animation (and with the split in subs it makes it
possible).  Glad to see the subs are split for different forms of animation.  

 thank you for your time, and hope all of you have a Happy Holiday season . 
But on the behalf of all animation fans, PLEASE GO SEE ALADDIN!!
 And especially if you can only see 1 movie, go see that and not the piece of 
trash in the "BodyGuard"!!!   Continued support of animation is the only way
it will thrive!!    (Hopefully we can get Aladdin to gross more money in the
long run over the "BodyGuard")... Besides Whitney Houston is geting on my
nerves!! :)  Take it easy and hope 1993 is a banner year for animation.

--- Maximus 2.00
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation,rec.arts.anime
From: antonina@wam.umd.edu (KAM)
Subject: Re: Transformers episode list
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 04:54:31 GMT

In article <Bz3tIH.KG0@news.cso.uiuc.edu> pmm34393@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Dr. Vincent Vaugn ) writes:
>In article <D6TLVB1w165w@noncomf.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca> gkplaine@noncomf.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (Gk plaine) writes:
>
>>I would be most interested in video.  As I dont' have cable where I live 
>>and can't really get in those Americian UHF channels, I really miss the 
>>New Transformers.  Would be interested in buying tapes or some other 
>>arrangement.
>>
>>gkplaine@noncomf.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca_____________________________________
>
>Add me to the list of people interested in getting Transformer videos!

Me too! This is the first time I have _ever_ posted in my entire life, so please
allow for the mistakes I am bound to have made. Thank you in advance.

antonina@wam.umd.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: Japanimation reviews con't (may contain SPOILERS)
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 05:19:37 GMT

In article <n118ct@ofa123.fidonet.org> Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:
> This is what I call pathetic, OK so there is this "girls with guns" crap,
>bloody animation, nudity, sex...OK OK OK... But do we have to go even LOWER
>with lesbianism like I saw in that one film I mentioned?  I would think there 
>would be a limit, even it it was pretty low... But I guess I'm wrong again...
> And don't tell me this stuff is made for the homosexual audience either...
>That's like saying "girls for guns" anime is for females... Complete BS.  

Most of what is normally recognized as "girls with guns" is made for males.
But you've been putting everything with Little-Mermaid-sized eyes in the same
category, and if you do that you certainly _do_ end up including lots of
stuff meant for females.

Nor does something need to be made for gay audiences to have non-porno gay
characters in it.  Sure, _some_ of it is pornography.  But _Orange_Road_?

(By the way, Leon's assistant in Bubble Gum Crisis is generally considered to
be gay.  By your own reasoning, which says that anything with lesbians in it
is meant as porno for men, Bubble Gum Crisis must be porno meant for women....)
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
From: Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Anime will destroy animation as we know it... NOT!!!
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov 17 1992
Date: 16 Dec 92  04:51:56

 EK> I have to disagree.  The reason animation isn't as 
 EK> accepted as other artforms
 EK> is that people still view it as "kid stuff".  And 
 EK> why is that?  Because
 EK> most (if not all) animation produced in this 
 EK> country IS either kid stuff
 EK> or equally immature pseudo-adult crap (yes, I'm dissing Bashki)!!

 EK> If you want animation to thrive the way it has elsewhere, you have to
 EK> diversify.  You have to provide not just the "family entertainment"
 EK> stuff, but also real-life drama, SF, action-adventure, "art" films,
 EK> etc.  Yes, that also includes the "girls with guns" B-movie genre,
 EK> and even animated "porn".  Something for everyone.
 The problem is the pseudo-adult crap (i.e. Girls with guns, porno, blood and 
gore) that will hurt the animation industry.  The real mature animation out
there I think has helped the animation industry.  But then this gets back to
the subtiling companies that have brought out the pseudo-adult crap for the
fanboys (i.e. AnimEigo) instead of bringing out the quality stuff out there.  
 Afterall, if people think of that junk even in Japan as kids-stuff, what
makes you think people here (who have a worse tendancy to think animation is
just for kids) will consider "girls with guns" and prono as much more than
just teen-age fanboy junk?
 This will DO NOTHING needless to say to show that animation isn't just for
kids and you will continue to see junk in terms of animation far outnumber any 
mature stuff.   Now if we could have some good quality mature stuff from these 
subtiling companies and change people's perception of anime, things will look 
for the better.  I think we are the borderline, and it could go either
direction.
 EK> In fact, I'd go so far as to say that anime will 
 EK> HELP animation in this
 EK> country, by interesting people who wouldn't give half a glance to the
 EK> inane TV pap in your typical video-store's shelves. 
 EK>  Anectdotal evidence:
 EK> MYSELF.  If it weren't for stuff like AKIRA and 
 EK> ORANGE ROAD and LAPUTA,
 EK> I'd never have had the interest in animation I have now...
You have a good point there... Although AKIRA is nothing much more than blood 
and gore, it does show some bright spots and smashes the thought many people
have of anime being just "saucered-eye" characters.  (some of the CHARACTER
DESIGNS were pretty good).  And LAPUTA is one of my favorite pieces of anime
from that famous Miyazaki (his works would be perfect in terms of showing
people more mature animation and getting people convinced that more mature
stuff can be done).
 As for Orange Road... Well, put it this way in terms of character designs 2
for 3 isn't bad, eh?   I personally think Orange Road is what will turn OFF
people to more "mature" stuff since it contains the typical junk that make
people hate anime.

--- Maximus 2.00