From: wag5@quads.uchicago.edu (john peter wagner)
Subject: Re: Anti-religious fanatics (Was Re: School Choice )
Reply-To: wag5@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 04:54:19 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.030847.21548@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.222615.4507@mcs.anl.gov> shaffer@achilles.ctd.anl.gov (Michael A. Shaffer) writes:
>>All this about Christians killing and hating etc. is very interesting. I guess
>>we all know that the Atheists never persecuted anyone. They never sent
>>people to siberia, or tortured them for holding different views. They never
>>put people in mental hospitals because the had different beliefs. It's
>>only the Christians that hurt others. And you know all Christians are alike.
>>What a crock!
>
>Many atheist publicly stated there disgust with Russia. Where are the
>Christians opposing the OCA in Oregon? Where were the Christians opposing
>the inquisition? If Christians remain silent when people kill in Christs
>name they have only themselves to blame for any misconceptions that
>result.
>
>-- 
>------          Join the Pythagorean Reform Church!               .
>\    /        Repent of your evil irrational numbers             . .
> \  /   and bean eating ways. Accept 10 into your heart!        . . .
>  \/   Call the Pythagorean Reform Church BBS at 508-793-9568  . . . .
>    

	I think that if you folks were to read Revelations, the final
book of the bible, you would be greatly enlightened.  In it the writer
presents a criticism of each one of the developed churches in the future.
	A church is an entity which exists to provide support;
It is not the end-goal of Christianity.  If you study Christianity
you may note that in its pure form its followers would tend to be
outcasts of society; in fact, early Christians were outcasts of society,
tortured, etc, in much the same way that Jews have been outcasts.
The church provides the kind of inter-personal support that people need
when standard societal structures make them outcasts.
	The Jews could appeal to their families for support; the Christians
could not; for as it is written, Jesus instructs his followers to leave
their wives and families, and that the Christians would form their families.
As Christianity began to pick up steam and found support among the people,
the 'support structures' evolved into independent structures, with autonomous
authorities such as popes, bishops, etc.  These autonomous structures
are similar to autonomous bodies we tend to call 'governments.'  The
papal 'throne' was one which has historically been analogous to the
Japanese Emperor's 'throne.'  The people who are hyper-defensive
about such structures are usually members of those structures.  When
Galileo was attacked by the Catholic church for teaching Copernican
astronomy, it was because the new knowledge challenged the authority
of the autonomous body known as 'the church,' which had based its
authority upon the 'truth' of its assertions.
	So, the ossification of these abstract structures, or shall
we say, the 'worship' of these structures, or churches, turned them
into entities apart from their original intent.  Today we have government
which was originally intended to protect the rights of its people 
from the likes of tyrants.  This 'protective body' has evolved into
an autonomous structure which today people would use to further
their own ends, rather than merely provide protection, which was
the original intent of the American government.  What will this
structure do now that it has been freed from its original intent?
Will it overstep its bounds, causing mass chaos and throw the entire
topic of Democracy into question?  In a thousand years, is it possible
that this could happen?

			J. Wagner