HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: strat@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Steve Davis)
Newsgroups: comp.programming
Subject: Re: Parsing mathematical functions.
Date: 16 Nov 1992 02:17:51 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

jarmo@ksvltd.fi (Jarmo Raiha) writes:

>dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann) writes:

>>IMHO, the first thing you should do is give up on standard expression format,
>>unless knowledge of parsing techniques (like recursive descent) is common
>>among your students.

>On the other hand, if you say that the function should be written in some
>programming language syntax, the whole problem collapses to a trivial one.
>The obvious solution then is to copy that line into a program template,
>compile it, and finally execute it.

It would appear from the responses that I have gotten so far that the
best bet would be to find an expression format that is easy to parse.
This would be a format that does away with precedence and other such
nonesense that is built into the human-to-human mathematical
expression format.

I believe reducing the problem to a programming language syntax would
be too easy.  But what I might do is have the contestants create a
syntax with an implicit symbol tree format, and then have them
traverse the symbol tree with each iteration of the loop that
evaluates the integral.  As stated in my original post, *elegance* is
as important as turning in a working solution.

Thanks for reminding me what kiddies are and are not capable of
accomplishing!  :)

Stratocaster
-- 
	   Steve Davis (I'm a student, not a spokesperson!)
      strat@cis.ksu.edu - Kansas State University - Manhattan KS
				   
Those who know what's best for us must rise and save us form ourselves. - Rush
Newsgroups: comp.programming
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Generations of Programming Languages
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:12:37 GMT

In article <01010064.idsgid@titipu.resun.com> ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid) writes:
>hmiller@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu (Harry Miller) writes:
>> The evelolution of programming languages is broken down into generations.
>> What is the latest generation and what does it correspond to?  Well, while
>> I'm at it what programming languages do the generations refer to?
>
>First generation: machine language.
>Second generation: assemblers.

Second and a half generation: C

>Third generation: higher level languages.
>Fourth and higher: marketing hype.

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Newsgroups: comp.programming
From: drkhoe@nmt.edu (ONID)
Subject: Survey - Research
Organization: New Mexico Tech
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 03:14:19 GMT

                              QUESTIONNAIRE
                         TO EXAMINE CAFFEINE USE
                        AMONG COMPUTER SCIENTISTS
                         AND ELECTRICAL ENGINEERS
                                     
Most of us enjoy consuming caffeine in one form or another. The purpose of
this questionnaire is to examine how much caffeine is being consumed, what
form the caffeine is being consumed in, and who is consuming it.

Please answer these questions with email to: bob@jupiter.nmt.edu
with the subject 'survey'.

**Please do not post your answers, that will waste bandwidth**

You don't have to quote the whole article, just use 6 lines or so:
EXAMPLE
	1 CS
	2 85 cans
	3 Jolt
	4 5 pots
	5 none (gives me a headache)
	6 45 Vivarin/hr.

Thank you!

1. What is your field of work/study?
    EE       CS        BothNeither

2. How much soda do you consume per day (average)?
    ________

3. What kind of soda do you drink?
    ________

4. How much coffee do you consume per day (average)?
    ________

5. How much tea?
    ________

6. Do you take any caffeinated pills? If so, how many?
    Vivarin  NoDoze    Maximum Strength Excedrin
    ______   ______    ______

bob@jupiter.nmt.edu
Bob "Chunkstyle" Broilo
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amiga to the Bone | SF2 Fanatics: Can you hang with the Guile combo's?
Moshing - the number one dance in America.  Kill the preacher hang the pope.
-------------------------------drkhoe@nmt.edu-------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.society.futures
From: shanks@saifr00.cfsat.honeywell.com (Mark Shanks)
Subject: Re: FAR future programs
Organization: Honeywell Air Transport Systems Division
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 15:29:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.222525.16194@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> kamchar@ibm.cl.msu.edu (SunCat) writes:
>As I recall C. M. Cornbluth's story had the moron's arise due to genetic  
>genetic deterioration not high technology; and the smart folks lived in  
>Antartica--away from the unwashed masses.  No such slavery in that story.   
>The morons couldn't find them.  Since the US does not have the lowest  
>infant mortality rate in the world, or the best school system, or is the  
>most generous in foreign aid (% GNP), I think that one problem we do not  
>have is the problem of too much care.

You need to re-read the story. Everyone on this net needs to read
that story. And since every plank from the 1928 Socialist Party
presidential platform has been enacted by the government, and the
federal government spent over $400 billion in 1990 on HHS and
Socialist Security, there is plenty of care, thank you. 

Mark Shanks
shanks@saifr00.cfsat.honeywell.com
From: kamchar@ibm.cl.msu.edu (SunCat)
Newsgroups: comp.society.futures
Subject: Re: FAR future programs
Keywords: Riders of the Purple Wage; Philip Jose Farmer; Triple Revolution; Dangerous Visions
Date: 22 Nov 92 23:29:21 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University

In article <7436@fury.BOEING.COM> jbg@sdc.boeing.com (James Glidewell)  
writes:
> In article <92314.171130U57567@uicvm.uic.edu> Myself!!!  
> <U57567@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:[...]
> >      Maybe I just a crusty cynic, but I think a LOT of people would  
just
> > become "couch Potato's", and never do ANYTHING but consume the free
> > goodies.  While this is OK for them, would the system be able to deal
> > with 4 BILLION spuds?
> 
> My favorite portrayal of such a society is "Riders of the Purple Wage"  
by
> Philip Jose Farmer, found in Harlan Ellison's "Dangerous Visions".
> 
> Viciously funny, IMHO.
> 
> Highly recommended.
> 
> -- 
> Jim Glidewell
> jbg@sdc.boeing.com or jbg%sdc@atc.boeing.com
"Riders of the Purple Wage" also had mention of protein computers.  He  
said in the afterword that, as far as he knew, he was the only person to  
have come up with such an idea.  He also mentioned some Lyndon Johnson era  
document called the "Triple Revolution" which mentioned a three-factor  
social revolution which included something called "cybernation"  
(cybernetic automation?).  Has anyone seen this document?  I have been  
unable to find it.

=========SunCat++++     | kamchar@ibm.cl.msu.edu
"The best weapon of a dictatorship is secrecy, but the best weapon of
a democracy should be the weapon of openness."
 --Niels Bohr
From: kamchar@ibm.cl.msu.edu (SunCat)
Newsgroups: comp.society.futures
Subject: Re: FAR future programs
Date: 16 Nov 92 22:25:25 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University

In article <1992Nov9.143039.2729@saifr00.cfsat.honeywell.com>  
shanks@saifr00.cfsat.honeywell.com (Mark Shanks) writes:
> In article <BxD9xx.MF3@ccu.umanitoba.ca> browns@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Stuart  
Brown) writes:
[...]
> Oh, brother. SURE there will be. Any technically competent people
> will more likely end up being the slaves to the "care-givers" and
> art-lovers just to keep the wheels from flying off your idyllic
> society, a la "The Marching Morons".
> 
> Mark Shanks
As I recall C. M. Cornbluth's story had the moron's arise due to genetic  
genetic deterioration not high technology; and the smart folks lived in  
Antartica--away from the unwashed masses.  No such slavery in that story.   
The morons couldn't find them.  Since the US does not have the lowest  
infant mortality rate in the world, or the best school system, or is the  
most generous in foreign aid (% GNP), I think that one problem we do not  
have is the problem of too much care.

=========SunCat++++     | kamchar@ibm.cl.msu.edu
"Society is in conspiracy against the manhood of every one of its members.  
Society is a joint-stock company in which the members agree, for the 
better securing of his bread to each shareholder, to surrender the liberty  
of 
the eater."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
From: anthony@meaddata.com (Anthony Napier)
Subject: Re: FAR future programs
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 01:48:11 GMT
Reply-To: anthony@meaddata.com


Ah, naivete!
 
So the answer is to just "automate" industries which produce these things,
but who will do it?
 
In this world where noone works, who will build and keep up these 
Utopian factories?
 
Build machines to keep up the machines, etc...eventually, people are
going to have keep an eye on things, aren't they?
 
Jim Hranicky (jfh@reef.cis.ufl.edu)


You are still thinking with a "current technology" mindset,
with visions of macro-sized clanking machines dancing through
your head.  It is probable that we will reach a technological
level where you set the wheels of automation in motion -- and it
would require NO further input.  What human labor is involved in
building a tree from a seed?  See K. Eric Drexler's recent textbook
Nanosystems for examples of the technology.

I hope you are right about technology always needing human input.
A future where automation surpasses human potential & intellect (AI)
is not exactly my vision of Utopia.  


---
 Anthony S. Napier    |   ...!uunet!meaddata!anthony                          
 Mead Data Central    |   anthony@meaddata.com    
 P.O. Box 933         |   Any opinions expressed are                          
 Dayton, OH  45401    |   mine, not MDC's.
From: kamchar@ibm.cl.msu.edu (SunCat)
Newsgroups: comp.society.futures
Subject: Re: FAR future programs
Date: 16 Nov 92 22:49:08 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University

In article <92314.171130U57567@uicvm.uic.edu> Myself!!!  
<U57567@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:[...]
>      Maybe I just a crusty cynic, but I think a LOT of people would just
> become "couch Potato's", and never do ANYTHING but consume the free
> goodies.  While this is OK for them, would the system be able to deal
> with 4 BILLION spuds?  I mean, how many people would WANT to make stupid
> sitcoms to keep them entertained?  :-)  :-)
>     It would make a good Star Trek episode though, "Planet of Lethargy".
> :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)
> Al
A fellow curmudgeon!  I think I can deal with the spuds.  Throw them a few  
trinkets so they will not bother me while I am doing *really* important  
things--like getting getting foot massages, brewing beer to my own  
exacting specifications, getting funny haircuts, splitting the top quark.

W. T. Quick had a story about this in _Analog_ a few years back called  
"The Think Ethic".  Wealthy government plagued with surpluses pays people  
to pursue thoughtful interests.  What about bullsh*tters?  Subsidize them  
too.  Eventually society benefits in big way.  Life extension etc.
BTW My previous followup should have gone to Trond Andresen.  My apologies  
if I edited incorrectly (posting has not appeared yet so I can't tell)

=========SunCat++++     | kamchar@ibm.cl.msu.edu
"If every tool, when ordered, or even of its own accord, could do
 the work that befits it ... then there would be no need either of
 apprentices for the master workers or slaves for the lords."
 --Aristotle
_Scientific Quotations: The Harvest of a Quiet Eye_ A. L. MacKay
From: kamchar@ibm.cl.msu.edu (SunCat)
Newsgroups: comp.society.futures
Subject: More FAR future programs
Date: 23 Nov 92 00:44:36 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University

In a previous posting somebody says "why don't you talk about space; are  
you unambitious?"

If we consider nanotechnology as an enabling technology we would do well  
to consider what advanced materials science can do.  

Fusion
Advanced materials science would mean better lasers and magnetic and  
inertial confinement systems.

Energy
Not just efficient solar cells but lightsails as well.   Manufacture, on a  
continuous basis, a fleet of Solar Satellite Power Station/Lightsails to  
travel a loop out to the Sun, there to orbit at close range for a year or  
more, storing energy in the form of manufactured antimatter.  After a  
year, we are sending twice as many SSPSLS's per unit time.  

Planetary Probes
Returning antimatter is used to send orbital probes to all nine planets  
without delay.  Don't know how long to get to Pluto under continuous  
thrust but I wouldn't want to wait longer than a year.  Of course ( :-) )  
we would use seawater for the reaction mass.  Boost the water into orbit  
with Tsiolkovsky-style beanstalks.  

FTP material objects
What if the planetary probes no longer have state-of-the-art hardware?   
Send an update.  Nanotech Source Code could encode the atomic  
specifications of material objects for on site replication.  Neat huh?   
But if the storage medium were as massive as the object itself, little is  
gained.  How about semantic compression or fractals compression?  A  
fractal "seed" may actually be a seed in the usual sense.  What would the  
"DNA" record of a household appliance look like?

But there you have it.  Controlled devices and substances may be forbidden  
in principle but not it fact.  If guns/bongs are outlawed only outlaws  
will have guns/bongs.  

Brain Radios
The Upload/mind backup idea has been discussed to death among the  
Extropians but how about something really interesting?  Something to alter  
the *nature* of consciousness.  That's right, a black box drug; an  
electronic dial-a-mood.  Timothy Leary called it a brain radio.  I think  
that's not a very good name.  Pretty standard stuff in the writings of  
Michael Swanwick or Pat Cadigan

Desktop Genetic Engineering
Tired of dreadlocks?  Wear something the NEA would not approve of instead.

Disclaimer: the tone is facetious but some of these things may come to  
pass anyway
=========SunCat++++     | kamchar@ibm.cl.msu.edu
"There is only one cause of poverty in the modern world:  failure to
 own an adequate supply of capital"
--Louis Kelso
From: jbg@sdc.boeing.com (James Glidewell)
Newsgroups: comp.society.futures
Subject: Re: FAR future programs
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:54:08 GMT
Organization: Boeing Computer Services (ESP), Seattle, WA

In article <92314.171130U57567@uicvm.uic.edu> Myself!!!  
<U57567@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:[...]
>      Maybe I just a crusty cynic, but I think a LOT of people would just
> become "couch Potato's", and never do ANYTHING but consume the free
> goodies.  While this is OK for them, would the system be able to deal
> with 4 BILLION spuds?

My favorite portrayal of such a society is "Riders of the Purple Wage" by
Philip Jose Farmer, found in Harlan Ellison's "Dangerous Visions".

Viciously funny, IMHO.

Highly recommended.

-- 
Jim Glidewell
jbg@sdc.boeing.com or jbg%sdc@atc.boeing.com
From: vandezande@inland.com
Newsgroups: comp.society.futures
Subject: Re: FAR future programs
Date: 18 Nov 92 16:50:19 CST
Organization: Inland Steel Company; East Chicago, IN

In article <BxGyCz.C1r@ucunix.san.uc.edu>, balesej@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Eric J Bales) writes:
> In article <1992Nov9.143039.2729@saifr00.cfsat.honeywell.com> shanks@saifr00.cfsat.honeywell.com (Mark Shanks) writes:
>>In article <BxD9xx.MF3@ccu.umanitoba.ca> browns@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Stuart Brown) writes:
>>
>>Oh, brother. SURE there will be. Any technically competent people
>>will more likely end up being the slaves to the "care-givers" and
>>art-lovers just to keep the wheels from flying off your idyllic
>>society, a la "The Marching Morons".
> 
> Or just the opposite will happen.  All the care-givers will become utterly
> dependent on the small number of people with the technical competence to
> fix major problems in the automated factories.
> 
> Either way is Very Bad.

	Has anyone else noticed that Mr. Balese has just given a capsule
description of H. G. Wells "The Time Machine"?  In the long run, very bad
for both groups, Eric.

								Joe V.
From: kamchar@ibm.cl.msu.edu (SunCat)
Newsgroups: comp.society.futures
Subject: Re: FAR future programs
Keywords: Libertarian Socialist Proudhon Mutualists Albus NIST
Date: 16 Nov 92 22:37:42 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University

In article <92314.171130U57567@uicvm.uic.edu> Myself!!!  
<U57567@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
> In article <BxD9xx.MF3@ccu.umanitoba.ca>, browns@ccu.umanitoba.ca  
(Stuart Brown)
> says:
> >
> >In article <Bwzy6p.Iv@ucunix.san.uc.edu> balesej@ucunix.san.uc.edu  
(Eric J
> >Bales) writes:
> >>In article <1992Oct30.085923.20896@ugle.unit.no> ta@itk.unit.no (Trond
> >Andresen) writes:
> >>>
> >>>I think it is neccessary now to discuss programs for the FAR future,  
as
> >>>a prerequisite for not going in the wrong direction when it comes to  
short-
> >>>term proposals. Here follow some thoughts about such a far-future  
program.
> >>>If it seems like a high-tech scenario of communism in the classical  
sense,
> >>>that's quite intentional.
> >>
Why would anyone with any knowledge or intuition of meme theory use the  
term "communism" rather than "socialism" or "economic democracy".  Now,  
you don't mean Stalinism do you?  Do you?

James S. Albus (of the NIST) has written a book entitled _Peoples'  
Capitalism:  the Economics of the Robot Revolution_.  Some alleged  
"capitalists" would kill to prevent it but some would say "this is what I  
meant all along".  Go figure.
BTW Noam Chomsky calls himself a "Libertarian Socialist" and refers to J.  
P. Proudhon.  A group called the "Mutualists" were into Proudhon as well.
 
=========SunCat++++     | kamchar@ibm.cl.msu.edu
"If every tool, when ordered, or even of its own accord, could do
 the work that befits it ... then there would be no need either of
 apprentices for the master workers or slaves for the lords."
 --Aristotle
_Scientific Quotations: The Harvest of a Quiet Eye_ A. L. MacKay
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:33:47 GMT
From: Harry Erwin <erwin@trwacs.fp.trw.com>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: Passport Records
Organization: TRW Systems Division, Fairfax VA
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 1, Issue 103, Message 1 of 7

Stewart Rowe <bg055@cleveland.freenet.edu> writes:


>This morning, the New York Times said (approximately)
>"In the '50s and '60s the State Department Passport Office 
>investigated the political views of many people."
> 
>My question is, does anyone know what they are doing NOW, and 
>what kinds of records they keep?

These were the notorious "alpha files," which were maintained by the
Passport Office in cooperation with the FBI's spying under Hoover. Most
(almost all?) were discarded in the aftermath of the discoveries about
Hoover. The folks in the Passport Office were digging through Clinton's
records in the hope that his files were still extant. Apparently they
weren't to be found, although it is likely they existed at one time. Those
people spied on _everyone_.

Cheers,
-- 
Harry Erwin
Internet: erwin@trwacs.fp.trw.com
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:34:06 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dave Niebuhr, BNL CCD, 516-282-3093" <NIEBUHR@bnlcl6.bnl.gov>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: Recording Phone Conversation
Organization: Computer Privacy Digest
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 1, Issue 102, Message 5 of 10

In Computer Privacy Digest Volume 1 : Issue: 101
ELTQC%CUNYVM.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu writes:

>Can anybody tell me if it's legal to record phone conversation in Tri-state
>(NY, NJ, CT) area if only one party of that conversation knows it?
>
>Thanks
>Thomas
>
>[Moderator's Note:  In New Jersey, you need permission of all parties,
>notification to all parties, *OR* a beep tone deive be used. ._dennis ]

In New York, one side's permission is needed.  This was explained to me
by a cop (scarry, huh).

Dave
Dave Niebuhr      Internet: niebuhr@bnl.gov / Bitnet: niebuhr@bnl
Brookhaven National Laboratory Upton, NY 11973  (516)-282-3093
Date: Tuesday, 17 Nov 1992 01:22:41 EST
From: ELTQC%CUNYVM.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Recording Phone Conversation
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 1, Issue 101, Message 12 of 11

Can anybody tell me if it's legal to record phone conversation in Tri-state
(NY, NJ, CT) area if only one party of that conversation knows it?

Thanks

Thomas

[Moderator's Note:  In New Jersey, you need permission of all parties,
notification to all parties, *OR* a beep tone deive be used. ._dennis ]
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:33:44 GMT
From: Chris Nelson <nelsonc@cobb.cs.rpi.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: Posting grades by SSN
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 1, Issue 102, Message 6 of 10


In article <comp-privacy1.100.1@pica.army.mil> Dorothy Klein <dak@gandalf.rutgers.edu> writes:
>
> ...stuff deleted...
>	The university droids still demand SSNs from everyone at the 
>drop of a hat, and get really nasty when you refuse.
>
>

Ah, happiness is made of small victories.  The other day I had
occasion to go to the RPI bursar's office to find out the status of a
refund I was expecting.  They way the inquiry screens were
(dis)organized, the clerk helping me needed my student ID three times.
The first two times, she asked for my "sosh"[sic] and I replied, "My
student ID number is ....".  The third time she actually asked for my
student ID!  Of course, I'm sure she asked the next person she helped
for his or her "sosh".<sigh>

                                    Chris
-- 
 ------------------------------+------------------------------------------
Chris Nelson                  |  Rens-se-LEER is a county.
Internet: nelsonc@cs.rpi.edu  |  RENS-se-ler is a city. 
CompuServe: 70441,3321        |  R-P-I is a school in Troy!
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 00:01:13 GMT
From: Carl Oppedahl <oppedahl@panix.com>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: Privacy map
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 1, Issue 101, Message 1 of 11

In <comp-privacy1.99.7@pica.army.mil> Chris Nelson <nelsonc@cobb.cs.rpi.edu> writes:

>From time to time, Playboy publishes a color-coded map which shows
>which states are most likey to try to invade the privacy of your
>bedroom and want to arrest you for doing something "unnatural" to or
>with a consenting partner.  

>Various messages here on c.s.p have made references to "California has
>a law...", etc. and it prompts me to wonder if anyone has put together
>a privacy map.  E.g., in which states are you expected or requiered to
>give you SSN to be allowed to operate an automobile on public
>highways.  Presumably, some states are facist and some are considerate
>of your privacy. I'd be insterested in knowing which is which.

>                                   Chris

>[Moderator's Note:  Has anyone out there know of a source?  WOuld anyone
>be willing to compile one? ._dennis ]                

Well, reading this makes me wonder if the writer is familiar with the many
important privacy compilations published by Privacy Journal in 
Providence, Rhode Island.

One of them is a state-by-state compilation of privacy laws.


Carl Oppedahl AA2KW  (intellectual property lawyer)
30 Rockefeller Plaza
New York, NY  10112-0228
voice 212-408-2578     fax 212-765-2519