From: lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,soc.motss,ca.politics,ba.politics
Subject: Re: What is "Sexual Orientation"?
Date: 1 Oct 92 20:00:53 GMT

In article <12563@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>In article <1992Sep29.183353.979@microsoft.com>, bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:
># (me)
># # Clayton, stay on the subject.  We are talking about AIDS & STDs here,
># # and your claim that "sodomy in private becomes a public matter".
># #   
># 
># /(cramer)
># /I haven't made an error.  The relationship between sodomy and AIDS
># /is purely statistical.  
># 
># No; it is not.  You have a fundamentally flawed understanding of the
># data if you believe that.  The statistical relationship is between risky 
># behavior patterns and AIDS.  Period.  End of argument. 
>
>Your ignorance is showing.  Also, the risky behavior hasn't changed.
>For starters, the risks from sodomy are dramatically higher than
>from vaginal sex -- this is why there are so few cases of vaginal
>sex transmitting the disease, except from prostitutes with vaginal
>lesions.
Then why the hell are so many studies for women concentrating their
efforts on vaginas? Clayton.....get real will ya? I'm not going to let
you get away with this anymore!

The following is a CDC excerpt:

"Spermicides May Not Offer HIV Protection" Science News (07/25/92)
Vol.
142, No. 4, P. 54  (Fackelmann, K.A.)
     New research indicates that a common spermicide used to protect
against sexually transmitted diseases does not offer any  protection
against HIV infection.  Because spermicide was thought to protect
against Neisseria gonorrhoeae, scientists assumed that the agent also
would be effective against HIV.  A common active  ingredient in
spermicides, nonoxynol 9, has killed HIV in test  tubes.  Joan Kreiss
of the University of Washington in Seattle  and her colleagues studied
138 prostitutes in Nairobi, Kenya,  who tested negative for HIV at the
beginning of the study.  The  team randomly assigned 74 of the women
to a group instructed to  wear a sponge doused with nonoxynol 9.  The
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^= in vagina Clayton or do you
need show and tell?

remaining 64 used a  placebo cream or suppository during sexual
activity.  Also, the  researchers emphasized the importance of wearing
condoms to all  of the participants.  The researchers followed the
women for more than a year, asking them to return to the clinic for periodic
visits.  Within that period, 14 women in the nonoxynol 9 group  and
eight women in the placebo group withdrew from the study,  leaving a
total of 60 in the sponge group and 56 in the placebo  group.  The
team discovered that the two groups were similar with respect to age and
percentage of sex partners who used condoms.   Nonoxynol 9 was found
to protect against N. gonorrhoeae but not  HIV infection.


>
># But even so, that was not your point.  Your ORIGINAL point was 
># (here, let me):
># 
># 	 ## Sodomy
># 	 ## in private suddenly becomes a "public" matter because it affects
># 	 ## the society as a whole (transmission of STDs).  
>#  
># 
># You still have not proven how gay sex is a public threat.
>
>Because homosexual sex has played a major part (along with IV
>drug abuse) in transmitting AIDS.

Wrong again Cramer. Homosexual sex has nothing to do with me. I am a
severe and strict heterosexual. But what DOES threaten me (if I were
single) would be bisexual males and IV drug users.

> 
># Even if that were true, you have also not demonstrated how the AIDS 
># argument should permit employers / landlords to discriminate.
>
>You are so stupid I can't believe it.  I am NOT arguing that this
>is a good reason to ban homosexual sex, but that the argument is
>parallel to your argument for banning private discrimination --
>that in both cases, there is a statistical basis for establishing
>"public harm," and therefore the government has nearly unlimited
>authority to run people's lives.  You are setting up a dangerous
>precedent for the government to tell you who you can have sex with,
>and how.

Now I am getting confused....due to one of your prio postings....you
mentioned legislation in conjunction with sex. Would you mind very
much if you posted a detailed description on your positions?
>-- 
>Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
>Bush: War on Drugs, tax cut->bigger deficit.  Clinton: War on Drugs, spending
>increase->bigger deficit.  What a great choice.


Len

--
*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*
The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very
use of the law is the instrument of illegality.
		-- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:49124 alt.politics.elections:14941