From: susan@coombs.anu.edu.au (Susan McDonald)
Subject: Re: (In)sanity arrives to this group! Welcome back Susan!
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
Date: 13 Apr 92 00:05:20 GMT

rlt@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (R.L.Taylor KB2OOA) writes:

>In article <susan.702883650@coombs> susan@coombs.anu.edu.au (Susan McDonald) writes:

>>	The problem is Roberta that too many of the male posters here
>>attempt to suggest that fighting is the _only_ solution available instead
>>of a last resort.   They talk about, "not turning the other cheek" nor
>>even attempting to avoid a fight, when the other result will basically
>>result in a lot more blood being spilled which is unnecessary.

>Bullshit, Suzy!  If you would listen to what's being said, instead of
>looking for things to justify your accusations of sexism, you would know
>that the use of lethal force is *always* considered an extreme measure,
>to be used only as an absolutely last resort.  

	Thats not what I read coming from the fingers of T(w)ermie, Matthew
and others Roberta.  When Dave spoke about his having a beer poured on
his head at the picnic, he was derided for not having been a "man" and
stopped this ugly thing from occurring.  Funny sort of "last resort" it
is when it entails fighting Roberta. 

>						Most, if not all, of the
>gunowners here have had enough firearms training to know that.  This is
>talk.politics.guns, not talk.fight.alternatives.  By the time we reach
>the stage of discussing guns, we have dismissed the other alternatives
>as inadequate for the particular situation.  

	Ah, so you are making an assumption are you?  What then is wrong
with questioning that assumption?  Or is so sacred that its not allowed to
be looked at closely?  If this is an assumption why isn't it made clear
and why, when the assumption is questioned and alternatives presented that
they are derided and insulted?

>						BTW, why do you make sexist
>comments like "too many of the *male* posters here..."?  Many people post
>under aliases, or by their initials, so you don't know what sex they are,
>now do you?  Aren't you making just a bit of an assumption, based on their
>positions on lethal force?  And what about us women who are willing to use
>a gun in self defense?  You're stereotyping again, Susan.

	I make the assumption that they are "male posters" Roberta because
of their debating style.  Your's compared to their's is like chalk and cheese.
You aren't as aggressive, nor are you so into proving your manhood as a large
number of the others are here IMO.

>>>If you wish to do so, that's
>>>your right.  Do not tell me that I have no right to defend myself if
>>>I find it necessary.

>>	As far as I can tell no one is suggesting that.  What is being
>>suggested is the question of whether or not fighting is the only solution 
>>which is available to people in certain situations (ie a fight).

>Your gun-control agenda would take away my final means of self-defense.

	Who said I was interested in taking your guns away Roberta?  As far
as I know I haven't even mentioned my gun control agenda.  Who is now
stereotyping?  Perhaps you are presuming a lot, aren't you Roberta?

>You, Susan, by desiring to ban guns, are saying I have no right to use
>lethal force even if it's the only way I can prevent myself being killed.

	Who said I wanted to "ban guns"?  I didn't, nor ever have.

>You, Susan, by desiring to ban guns, are saying I have no right to use
>lethal force against a rapist.  You are no friend to wymmin.  You would
>disarm us, thereby reducing our chances of successfully defending ourselves
>against a larger, stronger assailant.

	Fine, Roberta you can take on the responsibility for controlling
the behavior of that rapist if you want to.  I don't.  I prefer to make
them responsible for their own actions BEFORE they occur.



--
|  *   |We are, as a sex, infinitely superior to men, and if we were free... |
|*    *|as under natural conditions, our motherhood would be our glory. That |
|    ' |function gives women such wisdom and power as no male ever can       |
|   *  |possess. - Elizabeth Cady Stantoni___________________________________|