HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: SL500000@brownvm.brown.edu (Robert Mathiesen)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Necromancy
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 07:26:14 EDT
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta


The word *necromancy* is from Latin *necromantia*, which in turn is borrowed
from Greek *nekromantia*, meaning something like 'dead foretelling," i.e.
getting the dead to tell you the future.  All the Greek -mantia words (in
English -mancy) words refer to kinds of divination originally.  In Latin,
the adjetive *niger* means 'black', and I have seen Latin *nigromantia* in
Medieval texts.  It ought logically to mean something like 'black foretell-
ing' or 'divination using black something-or-other,' but in fact it seems
just to mean 'black magic.' and probably began as someone's confusion between
*necro-* and *nigro-*.  In these same texts *necromantia* also seems sometimes
just to mean 'black magic;' probably the poorly educated thought they were two
spellings of the same word.  More recently, the other "black arts" have been
lockpicking and printing].  --Robert


Robert Mathiesen, Brown University, SL500000@BROWNVM
From: amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Psychic Defence. Help needed
Date: 15 Sep 92 05:39:30 GMT

lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
> This was in response to a non-physical attack.  Stay with the story.

Fair enough--I just have a problem with people who overgeneralize this...

> This has been a very powerful tool for me.  I have not had *ANY*
> problems since I learned this routine.

Indeed.  Me neither.

> And by the way, even in physical attacks....NO ONE CAN HURT YOU
> UNLESS YOU LET THEM.  Note the conditional.

Well, I do agree with this, from a certain point of view, but I'm weird.


--Amanda

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: edd974y@nella12.cc.monash.edu.au (N.P. Green)
Subject: Re: ASTRAL PLANE
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 04:13:11 GMT

My fiance has had a few OBE's and the method she used to get to
that state is as follows :-

Starting from your toes, feel them become warm and tingling, tell
them to relax, do this until they feel sort of warn and numb.  
Gradually work up your body until you finish at the top of your head.
Then try to float out of your body.

My fiance could make her body parts go astral after she had relaxed them
(such as her leg or hand), but before she had finished relaxing her whole
body.  As Colin Low pointed out, this method may or may not work with
anyone else, but it is a good relaxation exercise anyway.

Nathan Green.
From: cward@Think.COM (Christopher Ward)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Psychic attack/shielding/empathy
Date: 14 Sep 1992 16:58:12 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: godot.think.com

In article <BuD7n9.81D@acsu.buffalo.edu>, oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes:
|> Why is it that someone who is a teenager (or thereabouts) is 
|> automatically said to be acting out a psycho-melodrama?  I've 
|> read equally far-fetched posts from adults and nearly everyone 
|> accepted theirs at face value.  What are these value judgements based 
|> on?

My experience with teens, both as peers and students, suggests that this is
not such a stretch of the imagination.  Not to slur an entire group based
on age, but teens live in constant psycho-melodrama.  It comes from the
remaining taters of childhood combined with raging hormones.  Add the fact
that their bodies are undergoing tremenous change and they live in the
sewage of today's high school/college environment - a malestrom between
childhood (an increasingly shrinking state) and adulthood (some never make it
to shore here).  

In this case, I think the major sticking point was a lack of critical 
thinking evidenced as well as a less mature presentation.  After having said
this however, I agree with your final statement.  Rather than debate what
is or is not "real", let me just say that it's real to Kethry so it's real
enough for me.  

|> IMO they are based on group-think.  There's an "inner circle" 
|> here on alt.magick that sets the standards for what is acceptable 
|> and what is not - to think, post, believe.  
|> 
|> An inner circle member can post something and *not* be subjected to 
|> the same level of critical thinking that outsiders endure.
|> 
|> I hope the "fringe participants" aren't intimidated by this.  The 
|> day everyone accepts the "inner circle's" basic tenants is the 
|> day alt.magick becomes boring.

Gee, guess I'm not among the inner circle - nuthin' new :-)

|> Re: Kethry's spirit - I think she is really experiencing it.  I 
|> also think she created it and its manifesting some hidden parts 
|> of her psyche - and she can get rid of it.  Note - just my 
|> opinions, which are all judgements boil down to anyway.
|> 
|> - Peggy -

	In L.V.X.,
	Christopher
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: questions
From: pickett@kenyon.edu
Date: 14 Sep 92 21:18:56 -0500
Reply-To: pickett@vax001.kenyon.edu
Distribution: alt.magick
Organization: Kenyon College

I have some questions which I would like to see answered.  I know nothing about
magik so I'm sorry if I'm asking questions that I should or if I'm going about
this the wrong way.  But there is never anything wrong with asking I think. 
Your question will be answerewd or it will not.  You are no worse off for
asking I think. Well here goes:

	1. Are any of you out there christians or some other faith and
practice magik?  How do you fit that in with your faith.  I know if your
christian the Bible said not to practice this art.

	2.How did you get started, where do you start, how do you begin?
In simpler terms if you have never practiced this art before how do you start.
Where's the starting point???

I have always been interested in the art of magik but I have never followed it
up and I don't know if I would because of my religion.  But whether I follow it
up or not the interest will always be there and I will stay tuned to this
channel and once and awhile ask some dumb questions. Hope this doesn't bother
anyone.  
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shava@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Shava Nerad Averett)
Subject: Re: The pentagram
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 01:38:39 GMT

In article <186pvkINN6ns@maico.ksu.ksu.edu> lazarus@maico.ksu.ksu.edu (Bart -Laz- Smith) writes:
>Another piece of trivia that I heard somewhere: the number "666" was a secret code
>number of Ceasar's, and since he was considered an "enemy" of Christianity, when
>the early Christians learnt of the number, they considered it to be a number of
>evil...  Any "solid" evidence supporting this out there?

Backwards, again, I'm afraid.  666 is listed as 'the number of the beast' in
John's Revelation.  It is associated in that work as a number having to do
with evil.  Since John set pen to paper, every enemy of christianity, from
the Caesars to Dan Quayle (don't ask...;) has been associated with the 
number 666 by some obscure path.
-- 
Shava Nerad Averett				shava_averett@unc.edu
/*  all materials (c)1992, Shava Nerad Averett, and have nothing significant
    to do with the University of North Carolina, a mostly owned subsidiary 
    of the NC Legislature, a mostly owned subsidiary of the DOT.      */
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: morality of love as force
Date: 13 Sep 92 14:08:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <199209130259.AA01505@intercon.com>, amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker) writes...
>oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes:
> 
>> When I made the comment about being disinterested, I did not rule 
>> out Agape, or compassion.  This is an impersonal love.  (A few, 
>> like Mother Theresa, make it personal, but that is an exception.) 
> 
>To me, that makes it very worthy of attention.  To me, the personalization of 
>Agape is a very central process in spiritual development.  This is one major 
>aspect of middle eastern religions (Judaism, Christianity, and at least some 
>branches of Islam) that differentiates them from most of the other religions 
>of Eurasia, and one of the reasons that, for example, I do not think of 
>myself as a follower of any eastern religion, despite the great insights I 
>may gather from many of them.

Very interesting point, which I find worth further consideration.

>> What about perfect hate?
> 
>I haven't had much experience of it.  Can you define or describe it?  Insofar 
>as I can imagine hate becoming perfect, I find it indistinguishable from 
>perfect love.

Very difficult, since  I've had no experience with it either.  My 
negative emotions have always been of the ordinary and base sort.  
But hypothetically, let's say my step-daughter Christina underwent 
the recent ordeal of this schoolgirl named Kristin, from St. Catherine's, 
Ontario.  Kristin was walking home from her Catholic, all-girls 
highschool, when a man forced her into his car.  (A witness saw this 
and did not call the police.)  A few weeks later her body was found.  
She had been "kept" for a few weeks and had been repeatedly tortured and 
raped.  Then she was killed and multilated.  Hating the person who did 
this could have the potential for developing into a perfect hate. 
Note the necessity here of adequate cause.  You can't have 
perfect hate over something trivial.  (I think the correct thing 
for a Christian to do would be to shower the evil-one with love, 
but that just doesn't appeal to me.)

- Peggy -
From: Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: What is Wizardry?
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 13:01:41 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

What is Wizardry?

What would magick and mysticism be without the greatest of life's experiences -
love?  Ah but love is the greatest secret and the greatest pain.  The wizard
must know as much about love as about hirself.  Let hir learn well the ways
of the Heart, for it is said that Gnosis shall reside therein.

-----

"Touch me in secret places no one has reached before,
in silent places where words only interfere,
in sad places where only whispering makes sense.

Touch me...in the morning when night still clings,
at midday when confusion crowds upon me,
as twilight as I begin to know who I am,
in the evening when I see you and hear you - best of all.

Touch me...like a child who will never have enough love,
for I am an adult who has known enough pain to love,
a child who wants to be lost in your arms,
a parent who sometimes is strong enough to give.

Touch me...in crowds when a single lood tells everything,
in solitude when it's too dark to even look,
in absence when I reach for you through time and miles.

Touch me...when I ask, when I'm afraid to ask.

Touch me...with your lips, your hands, your words,
your presence in the room.

Touch me...gently for I am fragile,
                  firmly for I am strong,
                  often for I am alone."                                 

[Author unknown]

-----

Crowley crooned 'AGAPE!' after countless theologians of the Western Way.
Buddhists pit 'compassion' against the wisdom of nonattachment.

What a travesty never to come to know oneself.  What a calamity never to come
to know another.  Like Sun and Moon, these are one and the same, and our quest
to plumb the depths of experience shall lead us past the Pillar of Will into 
the very deepest Pool of Love.


What is Wizardry?

Wizardry is the Art and Science - the Magick - of love, and the Baptism of 
Tears which love brings to our Heart.



Thyagi
--------------------------------------------------------------
'Wizard' is a title given unto another.  It is an endowment of respect.
From: eddie@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Edward M. Averett)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Perfect Love and Perfect Trust.
Date: 9 Sep 92 22:03:09 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

In article <BuBAv2.J52@acsu.buffalo.edu> oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes:
>In article <199209090542.AA23925@intercon.com>, amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker) writes...
>>The strongest shield you can mount is perfect 
>>love.  Love overcomes fear, and transforms enemies into friends.
>
>Don't know if I'd go this far.  I'd settle for being 
>disinterested -  not always, but most of the time.
>But it keeps you stuck in the mud with everyone else too.  And it 
>sounds like just another type of shield.
>
It has been my personal experience in this world that apathy is generally is
as much a danger to all that I hold to be useful, good, and sacred as hate or
antipathy is.  

Disinterest in somone who is trying to send stupid psychic "attacks" your way
is a very good way to discourage them and make them look like idiots at the 
same time, aka Josh's world where psychic attacks do not exist per se. 

I do hope however, that you are not advocating apathy as a good world-view 
in general.  I believe that Amanda was referring to the concept of Love as 
the perfect force.  There is nothing that can restrain someone who acts from
perfect love.  I myself have a tendency to equate perfect love with the proper
expression of perfect will. No matter what I do, if I am acting through my 
will properly, then I am expressing it through the medium of perfect love. To
slay your opponent from anger, fear or hatred is incorrect.  One must do it
through perfect love  "There is no need to slay the wicked.  Evil will find
death by itself." 

Also, I don't see how advocating perfect love keeps one stuck in the mud with
everyone else too.  Also, referring to love as just another type of shield 
does not jive at all with what I know about shields.  To express it another 
way, as I was recently reminded, Love isn't wizardry, it's magick.  

While I do believe that everything is everything else, I don't believe in 
lowest common denominator world-views. I would rather believe that everything
is sacred than mundane, in diamonds rather than mud, in love rather than 
apathy, in friendship rather than competition.  

I hope you don't mind that I took your incidental remark and ran off on a 
tangent which isn't really directed at you, Peggy.  But I saw a possibility 
that others might misinterpret your direction in the way I described above, 
and I felt strongly about it.  

In general, I have enjoyed the past week or so's posting much more than in 
recent months.  A lot of people suddenly seem to be contributing as much good
stuff as there is drek coming out, and it's fun.

			-eddie@legba.oit.unc.edu
			father-to-be  
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: tucker@mitre.org (William Tucker)
Subject: Re: empathic links
Keywords: Re: empathic links
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA, USA
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 21:16:40 GMT



Hi kids -

 "In 1964, physicist J. S. Bell published a mathematical proof called Bell's
  theorem. Bell's theorem mathematically supports the concept that subatomic
  'particles' are connected in some way that transcends space and time, so
  that anything that happens to one particle affects other particles. This
  effect is immediate and does not need 'time' to be transmitted. In Bell's
  theorem, effects can be 'superliminal,' faster than the speed of light. Bell's
  theorem is now supported by experimentation. We are now talking about a 
  phenomenon that stands outside Einstein's theory of relativity. We are trying
  to go beyond the wave/partcle duality."

 and further

  "Recently, physicist Dr. David Bohm said in his book "The Implicate Order" 
  that primary physical laws cannot be discovered by a science that attempts 
  to break the world into parts. He has written of an implicate enfolded order 
  which exists in an unmanifested state and is the foundation upon which all 
  manifest reality rests............(quoted from his book) "Parts are seen to 
  be in immediate connection, in which their dynamical relationships depend in 
  an irreducible way on the state of the whole system..." "


  the preceding quotes are from "Hands of Light" by Barbara Brennan


  Basically what it means is that we are all connected, that each of the pieces
  is aware of the whole...........in that they are inseperable. The mind becomes
  aware of the specific by focus of awareness, or attunement. The hologram is 
  used as an analogy...............from each of the pieces of a shattered holo-
  graphic image the entire hologram may be viewed. Each piece contains the 
  whole. There is no time and space to the whole, only to the pieces.


  Wm T.

.standard disclaimer
From: v085r6qm@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Erin D Markle)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Authors not Crowley
Date: 6 Sep 92 23:10:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


Hello, all. I'm new to the networks... and to computers,
really...(does anyone remember TRs 80 model 3?) ANYHOW,
I am not anti-Crowley, or anti-ANYONE for that matter,
I was wondering though why there wasn't more talk about
other, less cryptically profound authors. I don't mean
that there should be less talk about anyone, it's just
that I've been catching up on old dialouge (as if you
couldn't tell by my light-stepping due to the rather
rational compulsion to avoid FLAMING,...whew..,) and
I'm certain that there might have been much previous
talk of the works of other practioners... not neccesarily
yourselves, I just haven't seen it.
     Authors such as the late W.E. Butler, liberal Catholic
priest/magician (and student of Dion Fortune) have been of
much interest to me lately. David Conway (Magic: an Occult
Primer and The Secret Wisdom) is another I would like to
hear more about. If anyone is interested, I think that a
thread about contemporary author/practioners would be a very
useful refernce tool. 
        I KEEP WRITING 'PRACTIONERS' WHEN I MEAN TO WRITE
                         PRACTITIONERS !!!!
huntandpeckhuntandpeckhuntandpeck...............

     I'm becoming self-conscious about my long windedness,
so I'll just finish up by  bringing up that it would be a
reasonable thought to speak of Robert Anton Wilson, Antero
Alli, Terrence McKenna, and other such practicing skeptics
since fringe/marginal science is happily starting to look
very much like magic(k).
     On the one hand, I hope I haven't aroused the FLAMES
of Justice through misuse of a term or a misplaced idea,
on the other hand, I don't see much place in an intelligent
forum for so much fortressing and behavior justifcations...
Oh well, it looks like I've already started doing both.

     I'm looking forward to communicating with everyone
on this network....... I'm much impressed.

                  Swimming in pockets of larger pools of
                                               ignorance,

                                 Friend of Erin
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: gunnarh@dhhalden.no (GUNNAR HORRIGMO)
Subject: Re: MAGIK
Organization: Ostfold College
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:08:47 GMT

In article <1871.726.uupcb@factory.com> harish.reddy@factory.com (Harish Reddy)  writes:
>From: harish.reddy@factory.com (Harish Reddy) 
>Subject: MAGIK
>Date: 7 Sep 92 03:19:00 GMT
>Does anyone have a 'spell or a mantr that I msy lesrn to furthrt my
>brlef?
>      Still hopefull(enternity snd the eternal circle)
>                                                                                                                              

Does anyone have a spell to fix this guy's keyboard?
( Or anything on raising a dead mud player?)

------G
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Subject: Re: MAGIK
Reply-To: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 09:35:00 +0000

harish.reddy@factory.com (Harish Reddy) writes..

>Does anyone have a 'spell or a mantr that I msy lesrn to furthrt my
>brlef? Still hopefull(enternity snd the eternal circle)

How about the Oxford English Dictionary? I feel it would be more to
your need....
From: amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Necromancy
Date: 7 Sep 92 05:13:32 GMT

eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun) writes:
> The word Necromancy means "Divination by the dead" It is usually confused
> with Black Magic Because the word for the dead and the black in Latin are
> similar.

Er, say what?  "Necros" is greek, not Latin, means "dead," and is not much 
like any word for "Black," or even "dark," that I can  think of in either 
Greek or Latin.  "Necromancy" is translated very straightforwardly as 
"divination by means of the dead."  No ambiguity here.

> Originally it extends from the ancient term Khem meaning the Black which was
> the ancient Egyptian name for Egypt. When said: Necromancy it meant the
> divination of egypt.

Yow.  That's a real big etymological stretch.  I'm curious as to how you
make this connection...

> In Greek the term Khemestry or Alkhemy it also implied
> the arts of Egypt. Since the spelling has been changed.

"Alchemy" is from Arabic, not Greek (although it might have to do with Egypt--
my Arabic reference books are at home).  "Khemestry" seems almost 
laughable... do you have any references you'd care to cite for either of 
these?

> John Dee introduced the conversation with spirits in a graveyard
> where he did a lot of his experiments. Including of these spirits talking
> backwards etc.

Nope. John Dee never did his experiments in graveyards; in fact, he got 
rather upset when Kelley started doing what Dee thought was "black magic" 
(demonology, though, not necromancy), and demanded that Kelley cease at once.

The only extensive alleged use of necromancy that I know of in recent times 
was during the spiritualist/mediumist revival in the 1800s (though it has 
been around in one form or another for most of human history in one form or 
another).  Voudoun and Santeria may also use it, but I am not familiar enough 
with either to make any firm claims about them.

All of this being said, it is quite true that the Egyptians did have a quite 
elaborate mythology of death, and it would logically have formed an important 
part of any Egyptian magical system.


Amanda Walker
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: briansp@css.itd.umich.edu (Brian Spolarich)
Subject: Re: MAGIK
Organization: University of Michigan ITD Consulting and Support Services
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 01:15:25 GMT

In article <1871.726.uupcb@factory.com> harish.reddy@factory.com (Harish Reddy)  writes:
>Does anyone have a 'spell or a mantr that I msy lesrn to furthrt my
>brlef?
>      Still hopefull(enternity snd the eternal circle)
>                                                                                                                              

     Huh?
     No really...
     Huh?
From: cal@otter.hpl.hp.com (Colin Low)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:09:26 GMT
Subject: Re: inner circle
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
From: ccdarg@dct.ac.uk (Alan Greig)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: A question about reasons for Magickal effectiveness
Date: 13 Sep 92 13:26:33 +0100
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology

In article <1992Sep12.210553.6910@uvm.edu>, chambers@hal.emba.uvm.edu (Christopher A Chambers) writes:
> 
>   I have recently been reading the book _Liber_Kaos_, by Peter J. 
> Carrol. I found the chapter on Chaos Magick Mathematics to be 
> very interesting and thought provoking. Basicly, he states that 
> 
>   M = G * L * (1 - A) * (1 - R)
> 
>   Magick = Gnosis * Magical Link * (1 - Conscious Awareness) * 
>            (1 - Subconscious Resistance)

This seems to be saying that the more consciously aware an individual
then the less likely are magical effects. If this is correct then
a frontal lobotomy would improve my magical ability no end.
-- 

Alan Greig                            Janet: Alan@UK.AC.DUNDEE-TECH
Dundee Institute of Technology	      Tel: (0382) 308810
Newsgroups: alt.magick