From: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Subject: Usenet Culture, Part 2
Reply-To: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Organization: Metrosoft
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 21:44:29 GMT

In a previous post, I contrasted what I saw as two cultures on the net: for  
sake of simplicity, an established culture and a new culture. I attempted to  
point out some characteristics of each, and what I perceive to be the clash or  
"understanding gap" between them and how it pertains to Usenet guidelines,  
voting process, etc. Based on feedback, some people agreed with various points  
and some disgreed, still others claimed it didn't matter. Very well.

Since then it has become clear that I shouldn't categorize the "established  
culture" as one group. Over the last week I have seen two different groups  
emerge. One gives me hope, the other causes me concern.

There are a lot of people in the established culture that are willing to  
converse and argue the issues. Some have performed a lot of work in writing the  
existing documentation and guidelines and creating this net for us to use. They  
are willing to talk/listen - discuss. In cases where there are disagreements,  
they rationally present their view. They've pointed out in constructive ways my  
errors in logic and execution. They've also been able to see through the flaws  
in execution to see some value in some issues I've raised or underscored. I've  
learned a lot from these people. I sincerely hope that they are in the  
majority.

There are also a number of people that are seemingly very interested in keeping  
Usenet a challenge. They claim to only respect people that have thick skins,  
are willing to endure barbs and ridicule to get information, and contain an  
ability to argue to the death. I'll use an example to underscore my point. 

I received a piece of e-mail regarding this issue from one individual that,  
aside from one or two lines, was two screenfulls of insults and barbs. It  
included a "humorous" reference to "breaking my fingers to keep me from typing  
for awhile". This person in the same letter claimed that *my* posts were  
belligerent and that I should "shut up". I was so amazed by this that I thought  
I'd foot a long distance bill to see if this person was the same over the  
phone. After 14 years in the computer industry I've learned that how people  
behave via e-mail and over the phone can be very different. This individual was  
exactly the same on the phone. We discussed some of the issues. When it was  
clear that neither was going to see the points of the other was presenting, I  
suggested that using expressions like "breaking your fingers so you can't type"  
was a sad way to make your point. This person responded that if I was bothered  
by that line that I would have a difficult time dealing with Usenet.  

I sincerely hope that this kind of viewpoint isn't prevalent. I can't in good  
conscience subject people in my company and my peers to an environment where  
they have to endure references to having their fingers broken in order to  
express their opinions. But the unfortunate thing is that a lot of people like  
us *need* Usenet. 

This person also indicated that I'd mistaken Usenet for reality, claiming all  
this is in "fun". This implies to me that this individual feels that Usenet is  
a game or sport, and that the object is "to win". Well for a number of people  
this is very "real". Usenet for us isn't and end in itself but a vital tool. We  
got onto the net not for a playground or a place to flex our muscles and  
sharpen our wits, but as a place to obtain information. 

Some people feel that the guidelines and the process are fine as is, mostly  
citing what they feel are legitimate flaws in new things that are proposed.  
Certainly valid - that's what discussion is for. Other people feel that things  
need to be changed in a constructive manner, not meaning to insult the people  
that have created what is there so far. That seems valid too. What DOESN'T seem  
valid are people that are doing this for "sport" and will protect their "club"  
from invasion at all costs.  

I know that the opinion of a "newbie" doesn't carry a lot of weight with many  
members of this group. But I'd like to ask you to sincerely consider the  
motives behind each given argument or proposal as they come up and to not  
support this sporting "survival of the fittest" mentality (and I'm trying to be  
very polite here). 

Gordon


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Gordon Van Huizen           vox: 619.488.9411  fax: 619.488.3045
Metrosoft                   gvh@metrosoft.com [NeXTmail welcome]
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