HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: geek@media.mit.edu (Chris Schmandt)
Subject: Re: A Seat with a View (Re: Snowy Sierra Nevada)
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 03:21:52 GMT

In article <1992Nov2.222512.9854@news.arc.nasa.gov> watson@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (John S. Watson - FSC) writes:
>In article <1d3ppbINN807@hpscdf.scd.hp.com> sommer@scd.hp.com (Jeremy Sommer) writes:
>
>Anyone else have some good tips for finding the best view?
>And don't you wish you could get the airlines to keep the windows 
>cleaned better?
>

This is only marginally rec.backcountry -- except that I too use
this on my frequent cross-country flights as a means of scoping out
good places.  Some years ago a look down on Upheaval Dome convinced
me to go there, and recently I went in the Upper Salt Creek basin
(both Canyonlands) because a look into it on a LAS-DEN flight blew
me away.

Scratched windows are less of a bother when you're not on the sunny
side of the plane, so go for the A seats when heading east, so you're
looking north.  Unless you expect the great views to be to the
south!  After you watch for while, you'll realize that there's a
fair amount of variability in routes -- you're talking several
hundred miles north/south at the Utah-Colorado border on a flight
Boston - SF.  So you get to see different things at different
times.

It's also fun to look down on places you've been.  Always fun for me
to look down on Arc Dome now, after the trip Eugene organized there a
few years ago.  Looking into the Canyon from 30,000 feet the trail
out to Plateau Point sticks out like this big linear scar...

chris
From: scvax@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: BC in the movies [still diverging]
Date: 4 Nov 92 22:42:24 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <wp!qyzl@lynx.unm.edu>, mulberry@triton.unm.edu () writes:
> Miya gave his critique on the Deer Hunter and talked about
> the shooting incident with the Vietcong.
> Somebody replied that there was no film footage of the event,
> only the still photograph.
> That is incorrect.  I saw a documentary on Vietnam on the telly
> a few months back and they ran the footage.

Correct.  The event WAS filmed, but a bystander walked in front of the
movie camera at the moment the shot was fired [catch the War^H^H^H Dis-
covery Channel once in awhile. I've seen this clip numerous times on their
various war documentaries].  The still photograph was taken at the 
precise instant the gun was fired and is, I think, the most widely pub-
lished photo from the war. 

>It was quite horrifying !!  

Indeed, but if you read the accounts of what others in his situation went
through before being killed, he was really rather lucky.

Sincere apologies for the misuse of r.b bandwidth.

Dave Huhta  huhta@phys31.phsx.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Trip Report: Guns n Chainsaws
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 01:27:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.132465.9187@burp.com> ddimwid@burp.com
(Delburt Dimwiddy) writes:
>   We'd just gotten the new truck and got a little crazy and decided
>to go camping.
...
>Delburt "just call me Burt" Dimwiddy
>Bigger guns, more beer!

Uh, hav' to say Delburt that this here post is one of the funniest sphoof
forgeries, i hav' ever seen.   Say, you in competition for best hack trip
report post of the year?  Trying to be funnier than Wayne or Will?
Pass the beer, willa plez.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  of the Sierra Club Chainsaw massacre
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
	"And their names were Bubba and Skeeter."
Ref: The Wake of the Exxon Valdez by Art Davidson.
From: maheindl@bio4.acpub.duke.edu (Martin Heindl)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Who's who in rec.backcountry
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:24:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.6723
Reply-To: maheindl@bio4.acpub.duke.edu (Martin Heindl)


Hey. I am looking for someone, who wants to come with me to Florida, especially
Everglades, for canoeing and watching birds during the christmas-holidays.
I am male, german and graduate student at the zoology dept. at Duke Universty,
Durham.,NC. If you are interested, please send me a message to the following
e-mail address: maheindl@bio4.acpub.duke.edu
Or send me a letter or give me a call to
        Martin Heindl
        1112 N.Duke Str.
        Durham, NC 27701
        Tel.: 919-688-5008 

I think this could be a great trip, because with the canoe one get into the 
remote areas of the Everglades and can escape the crowds.
I am looking forward to a message from you
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: fwb@cci632.cci.com (Fred Brunner)
Subject: Re: Winter trip to Adirondacks
Reply-To: fwb@op632.UUCP (Fred Brunner)
Organization: Northern Telecom / NAS, Rochester, NY
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:34:10 GMT

In article <1992Nov3.154051.9778@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> abl9y@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Andrew B. Lederman) writes:
>I am planning a three or four day winter trip to the Adirondacks and 
>was wondering if anyone has any suggestions.  How tough is Algonquin in the
>winter?  What places are relatively uncrowded?  Any advice would be appreciated.
I live a few hours away from the Adirondacks.  My camping
experience there is limited to the summer months.  Nevertheless,
I think I can give some good advice:  1) be well prepared for unexpected
severe winter storms,  2) be an experienced winter camper before
venturing far from civilization.

The local Adirondack Mountain Club chapter has people experienced in
winter camping.  I have heard stories at meetings and in the newspapers
of deaths and disappearances, even when the campers were experienced
and well equipped.  The weather at high altitudes is often more
severe than people expect.  High winds, below zero temperatures,
and no visibility are not uncommon.  When I climbed Mt Marcy (summer,
adjacent to Algonquin), one of the memories is of the posters
at the trailhead asking hikers to keep an eye out for the
remains of missing winter campers.

The experience of winter camping is extolled by many, and I'd like to
try it some time.  I have gone on short (5 mile) day hikes in winter,
and enjoyed them.  I have used my snowshoes.  I always pay close
attention to the weather forcast.

I don't think any place more than 1/2 mile down a trail in the
Adirondacks could be called crowded in the winter.

Plan, practice, and go for it (carefully).

Fred Brunner
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: mpb@troy.uucp (22161-bunz)
Subject: Re: Is Gore-Tex overrated ?
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 14:31:29 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.120721.91@janus.arc.ab.ca>, erkamp@JANUS.ARC.AB.CA (Bob Erkamp) writes:
> In article <endecotp.720796883@cs.man.ac.uk>, endecotp@cs.man.ac.uk (PB Endecott (PhD SFurber)) writes:
> >cheu@venus.its.uci.edu (Kelvin Cheu) writes:
> >> (about Gore-Tex not really being breathable, and about getting wet feet
> >   inside a pair of Gore-Tex boots)
> >
> >Interesting.  I have never had a problem with either Gore-Tex or SympaTex
> >(the French stuff that's chemically the same) failing to breath, but a
> >couple of weeks ago I climbed Snowdon (the highest mountain in Wales, for
> >those of you from overseas) in very wet and windy weather and my
> >overtrousers and jacket both leaked.  Judging from the distribution of the
> >dampness on my clothes underneath, it was the fabric itself and not the
> >seams that failed.  Suprisingly, my feet stayed totally dry inside my
> >Gore-Tex KSB boots.
> >
> >I'm going to take the overtrousers back and see what the retailers say,
> >since they are "Garaunteed to keep you dry" !
> >
> 
> Are you sure that this isn't from perspiration? I've had a Gore-Tex jacket for
> a few years now and it's never leaked. I find that when it's very humid that I 
> will perspire heavily though. I don't think you can blame this on the Gore-Tex.
> 
> Bob

Yes and no.  Gore-Tex is supposed to be breathable, and let all that
nasty perspiration stuff out so that your inner layers don't get wet.
But lets face it, if the sweat is running down your face, you cann't
expect Gore-Tex to wick away all the moisture on the rest of your
body, if it did I'd think that we could do away with all the air conditioners!

Marc

PS  I've always been happy with my Gore-Tex coat, and have only gotten
wet due to EXCESSIVE persiration.
Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:8674 rec.climbing:4229 rec.skiing:7206
From: ekp@mcnc.org (Edward Pavelchek)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing,rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Direct Euro-belays
Date: 5 Nov 92 22:25:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: mcnc.1992Nov5.222507.29711
Organization: Good place for a disclaimer

In article <1992Nov5.162618.5424@aber.ac.uk> azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward) writes:
>Time to rattle a few cages......

>and if large, then a direct belay at least allows the survivor a chance of
>soloing off
>

And other comments suggesting belaying directly from anchors.  In order
to solo off, remember to never belay in hanging stances, and to untie
the rope from your waist before belaying any leader.

Screamers, et al, do not absorb much energy either, but the reduction in
impact forces for modest falls from a belayers body motion may save
suspect pro.  For the big bombers, the belayer can't hold tons of force
anyway, so the rope will run.
-- 
Ed Pavelchek   ekp@mcnc.org

Off to see the earth, off to touch the sun... 
J Morrison
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: troyer@ips.id.ethz.ch ( Matthias Troyer)
Subject: Re: A Seat with a View (Re: Snowy Sierra Nevada)
Organization: ETH Zurich (Swiss Federal Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:21:54 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.191038.9845@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com>, tilley@fsf.UUCP (Tom Tilley) writes:
> This doesn't explain in-flight movies, and people with window seats
> agreeing to close the window shades in order to see the movies.
> 
> I too am surprised that people ignore the view.  The great basin is
> especially interesting from the air (for me).  The great lakes are nice
> when they aren't cloud-shrouded.

Most often the in-flight movies are shown when you fly across the
most interesting landscape. Once we had to fight with the flight attendants
to let us leave the window shade open. They wanted to show the movie
just when we passed the most interesting mountain regions in the Algerian
Sahara. Finally we took seats in the empty first class regions and looked
at the scenery from there. The stewardesses still were not happy, as we had
economy class tickets only. But that's a moment where it is good to forget
one's knowledge of French, especially when the flight attendants can speak
French only.

A different experience was on a polar route flight from Tokyo to Europe
with JAL, where they interrupted the movie to let us view the polar lights.

Matthias
----------------------------------------------------------------
snail-mail:  Matthias Troyer
             Moehrlistrasse 103
             CH-8006 Zurich, Switzerland

e-mail:      troyer@ips.id.ethz.ch - Don't trust the From-line!
From: endecotp@cs.man.ac.uk (PB Endecott (PhD SFurber))
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Is Gore-Tex overrated ?
Date: 6 Nov 92 10:42:18 GMT

erkamp@JANUS.ARC.AB.CA (Bob Erkamp) writes:

>In article <endecotp.720796883@cs.man.ac.uk>, endecotp@cs.man.ac.uk
                                               (PB Endecott) writes:
>>A couple of weeks ago I climbed Snowdon (the highest mountain in Wales, for
>>those of you from overseas) in very wet and windy weather and my
>>overtrousers and jacket both leaked.  Judging from the distribution of the
>>dampness on my clothes underneath, it was the fabric itself and not the
>>seams that failed.

>Are you sure that this isn't from perspiration? I've had a Gore-Tex jacket for
>a few years now and it's never leaked. I find that when it's very humid that I
>will perspire heavily though. I don't think you can blame this on the Gore-Tex

>Bob

Yes, I'm completely certain.  In previous years when I've been walking in
non-breathable watherproofs in similar conditions I've noticed no more than
a little perspiration - I don't sweat that much.  But on the trip I
described my trousers were completely soaking, not just damp - so wet you
could wring them out.  I think that five or six hours in heavy rain is just
too much for the stuff.

-- Phil.
From: pggreen@juliet.caltech.edu (Green, Peter G.)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Sierra Nevada in May
Date: 6 Nov 1992 09:22 PST
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: juliet.caltech.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1992Nov6.012214.4834@nas.nasa.gov>, eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes...
>If you aren't prepared, then it's evolution in action.
Yes, indeed, but that's true year 'round.

>Best skiing?  In May?  Huh?  Try March.  May is for climbing.
May is a nice time to climb, but Nancy had it right, late spring
offers great backcountry skiing if you are willing to make the
approach.  Finest run I've ever had was in a dry year on June 1.

-Peter Green (pgg@chemsys.caltech.edu)
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Survey on Firearms carried while skiing (serious survey)
Date: 9 Nov 1992 10:58:53 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1992Nov9.175956.11039@nas.nasa.gov>,
eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>Two years ago the question was raised in a post between rec.skiing
>and rec.backcountry.  This is a follow up query to determine the
>change (addition) after a two year period.
>
Good grief!!  Self-defense while skiing??!!   Maybe we should
confine out "backcountry" activities to south central LA and to DC
where it is relatively safe.  BTW, aren't there some nice trails in
"the former Yugoslavia" where one can get away from it all?

<Forgive the sarcasm, the devil made me do it.>
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Is Gore-Tex overrated ?
From: erkamp@JANUS.ARC.AB.CA (Bob Erkamp)
Date: 5 Nov 92 12:07:21 MDT
Reply-To: erkamp@JANUS.ARC.AB.CA
Organization: Alberta Research Council

In article <endecotp.720796883@cs.man.ac.uk>, endecotp@cs.man.ac.uk (PB Endecott (PhD SFurber)) writes:
>cheu@venus.its.uci.edu (Kelvin Cheu) writes:
>> (about Gore-Tex not really being breathable, and about getting wet feet
>   inside a pair of Gore-Tex boots)
>
>Interesting.  I have never had a problem with either Gore-Tex or SympaTex
>(the French stuff that's chemically the same) failing to breath, but a
>couple of weeks ago I climbed Snowdon (the highest mountain in Wales, for
>those of you from overseas) in very wet and windy weather and my
>overtrousers and jacket both leaked.  Judging from the distribution of the
>dampness on my clothes underneath, it was the fabric itself and not the
>seams that failed.  Suprisingly, my feet stayed totally dry inside my
>Gore-Tex KSB boots.
>
>I'm going to take the overtrousers back and see what the retailers say,
>since they are "Garaunteed to keep you dry" !
>

Are you sure that this isn't from perspiration? I've had a Gore-Tex jacket for
a few years now and it's never leaked. I find that when it's very humid that I 
will perspire heavily though. I don't think you can blame this on the Gore-Tex.

Bob
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: afd@bellcore.com (Alex F. Dietz)
Subject: Re: New Zealand Macpac Tents
Reply-To: afd@bellcore.com
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 13:40:25 GMT

I'm taking a trip to NZ in a few months and have been pricing lightweight
(5 lbs or less) 2 person backpacking tents here in the US.  I didn't know of 
an Australian or New Zealand tent manufacturer until now.  Maybe an option
is to pick up a tent when upon arrival in NZ.  What Macpac designs fit these
criteria:	5 lbs or less (2.5 kg or less)
		2 person
		Under $225 US  
Better yet - could someone post a summary of the product line?

-A Dietz
Bellcore, Morristown, NJ USA
afd@hera.cc.bellcore.com
From: dave@austin.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Chattahochee recomendation
Date: 11 Nov 92 14:05:34 GMT
Reply-To: dave@voyager.austin.ibm.com
Organization: IBM in Austin, TX
Originator: dave@krakatoa.austin.ibm.com


	I'll be an Atlanta, GA this Thanksgiving and would like to take
a day trip to the Chattahochee NF; I've never been in that part of the
country and won't have much time. Hence, I seek advice.

	 First, I'd appreciate any recommendations on good day hikes (3 to 
5 hrs.). Something with good geology/hydrology would nice. 

	Secondly, in case the grandparents want to come along, I need an 
alternative plan: a recommendation on a scenic drive through the Chattahooche
to nice picnic location with a nearby shorter hike.


Thanks


-- 
Thanks,
	dave
 _____________________________________________________________________________
  Dave Baukus			Inet	:	dave@voyager.austin.ibm.com
From: mturner@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Mark Turner)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Video in the Backcountry
Date: 13 Nov 92 16:12:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Nov13.161207.4158
Distribution: usa
Organization: Western Washington University

wbm@freedom.Stanford.EDU (Wally Mann) writes:

>In article <1992Nov7.222358.5115@coe.montana.edu> graham@cs.montana.edu (Jonathan Graham) writes:
>>
>>	I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with filming
>>(video) in the backcountry?  My main problem has to do with batteries.

Two ancient experiences (from the '70s):

A spring-powered 16mm film camera doesn't need any batteries.  I've
carried an old Kodak movie camera that took 100-foot loads on at least one
backpacking trip.  The downside is that you only get about 20 seconds per
wind, and they aren't made for doing sound work.  The weight is also
heavier than the newest lightweight 8mm video camcorders.  But you don't
need batteries.  Super 8 film is another (not so current) choice.

I once carried the old Sony Portapack (remember, a heavy box that mostly
filled the top part of my frame pack and a separate camera bigger and
heavier than today's 8mm or VHS camcorders and only in B&W) on a backpack
trip.  My companions had to carry most of the common camping gear and food
to make it work out.  Battery time was also limited, even in modest fall
weather.

If I were going to do it again today, I'd invest in 8mm or Hi-8 video
equipment and the best high-capacity long-life batteries I could find. 
Keeping them warm definitely helps on winter trips.  Conserve battery life
by only turning the camera on when you're really ready to shoot, for
standby takes power, too.

Has anyone used a solar-powered charger for these batteries?  Surely there
must be one available somewhere.

mturner@henson.cc.wwu.edu
Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:8859 alt.gathering.rainbow:4
From: rob@cygnus.com (Rob Savoye)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,alt.gathering.rainbow
Subject: Re: Rainbow Gathering
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:34:03 GMT
Organization: Cygnus Support -- +1 415 322 3811
In-reply-to: JB's message of Thu, 12 Nov 1992 13:10:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.131000.22689@brtph560.bnr.ca> JB <jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com> writes:

>  You can always tell where the Rainbow groups have been in the Southern
>  App's; the debris is incredible, the trenches from cooking and common
>  latrine are left open, and the nearest water supply is slimed.   I
>  respect their views as their own, as I do their lifestyle, but from
>  personal experience I can't respect their use of the land.

  I find this strange. Not that I want to push the blame away from the
Rainbow Folks, but I find this hard to believe. The only time I can
remember that the cleanup has't been as good as usual is cause of the
Forest Service. It changes from state to state, but I know of one time
that they decided to enforce the ban on camping for only 14 days at
the end of which they kicked out the cleanup crew! I've talked to many
of the forest service types during the gatherings and they have always
been satisfied with the high levels of hygene, the quality of the
latrines, and the cleanlness of the water supplies.

  There are Regional gatherings that are loosely connected with the
nat'l ones. These I can't vouch for. I imagine they vary considerably
as to the degree they can clean up. All kinds of people come to
gatherings and thier respect for the land may vary. Most Rainbows are 
*much* more land concious than the average backpacker. I find most of
the shelters/camping on the AT a flithy mess. based on this I could
conlude that all backpackers have no sense of sanitation.

	- rob -
From: jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Lunches and Snacks: what do you bring?
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:37:35 GMT
Reply-To: jreece@sousa.intel.com
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies

In article <10729@vice.ICO.TEK.COM>, hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal F Lillywhite) writes:
> In article <1992Nov11.050420.29732@netcom.com> micki@netcom.com (Michelle Stone) writes:
> 
> >When I am on a short trip (3 to 4 days) I like to sit down in my 
> >sling lite chair on the top of a peak and pull out a Diet Coke.  It
> >never ceases to amaze my hiking companions!

I've found that chocolate-chip cookie dough really hits the spot, and has
a high calorie/weight ratio.  No utensils required, just open the tub and
insert finger.  Only in cool weather though, and I use an egg substitute
on account of salmonella concerns.

ENM mentioned cheese fondue.  That really hits the spot, though
cleaning the pot is the biggest pain.

-- 
John Reece			"This lifeboat is full"	
Not an Intel spokesman 			 
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: franz@meaddata.com (Franz Weckesser)
Subject: Re: BC in the movies (again)
Keywords: bear
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:35:07 GMT

In article <rjg.721071949@pulaski>, rjg@doe.carleton.ca (Richard Griffith) writes:
|> In <ym+qlbf@lynx.unm.edu> mulberry@triton.unm.edu () writes:
|> >Well, In my opinion the movie with the best  backcountry
|> >scenery is *The Bear*.  An excellent movie.  Brings back
|> >fond memories of backpacking and climbing in Canada and 
|> >astrong desire to return.
|> 
|> Todays trivia quiz is where was most of *The Bear* filmed. The
|> answer will suprise you.

-- 
Franz Weckesser franz@meaddata.com x7232 53JL

  "The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting
   than the question of whether a submarine can swim" - Edsgar W. Dijkstra
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: A Seat with a View (Re: Snowy Sierra Nevada)
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:17:27 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Nov4.225037.5136@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
 
|Two excellent books about science from your plane seat exist.
|But I am not surprised, it is inline with the fact that people in
|our society are scientifically or geographically oriented.
|It goes beyond the jaded business traveller.  It comes with choice.

Funny.  Everytime I see this subject line I think of that book "How
to Shit in the Woods".  

If you really want a seat with a view, if you get a chance to fly over the
Sierra (or whereever) in a light plane, do it.  A couple of years ago I went
with four other people in a six passenger plane to Mammoth to go skiing for
the day.  Flying over the Sierra at a low elevation and being able to suggest
to the pilot a more scenic route really has it's advantages.

-- 
+==========================================================================+
| John Fereira        | Auspex Systems | "Ask me about my vow of silence." |
| johnf@auspex.com    | Santa Clara CA |                                   |
+==========================================================================+