HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kaj@iesd.auc.dk (Kaj Laursen)
Subject: Re: Twilight Aimed shots (was: Twilight nightvision etc.)
Organization: Mathematics and Computer Science, Aalborg University
	<1992Nov3.185121.20101@nstn.ns.ca>
	<KETIL.92Nov4161121@sandel.ii.uib.no>
	<1992Nov9.155138.10119@nstn.ns.ca>
	<KETIL.92Nov10145244@sandel.ii.uib.no>
	<KAJ.92Nov10195419@mohr.iesd.auc.dk> <BxJDn3.u3@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: 13 Nov 92 16:20:53

In-reply-to: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu's message of Wed, 11 Nov 1992 05:23:26 GMT

   kaj@iesd.auc.dk (Kaj Laursen) writes:

   ><Ketil>   10 secs seems a long time between each shot, IMHO

   >It is a very long time. When i did my military duty i think the
   >"standard" (You know, they have a standard for _everything_ :-) was 1
   >aimed shot every 4 seconds. I think that is high too. After figuring
   >bullet drop and compesated for the wind i think one shot every 2-3
   >seconds (depending on your position) would be more realisticly (sp?). 

   In the back, the designer states that the "aimed " shot is a very well
   aimed shot. Thus, 10 seconds of prep time. The "snap" shot is also
   an aimed shot, just not that well aimed. Hope this helps.

   Axly

If an aimed shot is as good a shot as you can posibly do, making an
aimed shot should consitute off getting to the very best position to
fire from, ie. most of the time laying. Also, the character have the
time to get the control of his breath. Still, i think a doubling of
the chance to hit should constitute of more than that. The most
important in accurate shooting is trigger control, ie. not jerking the
trigger. That should, for a trained character, be possible even
without 10 seconds of prep time. But your right Axly, it did help. I
did not remember that comment from the designer.

Kaj
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: HARN ?
From: kait@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
Date: 7 Nov 92 16:17:44 -0600
Organization: Mankato State University

>> I've played in the Harn world a few times.  I enjoyed it very much but no
>> one
>> else gaming with us at the time liked it.  It's kind of like a mixture of
>> D&D and GURPS but without much magic and much better skills.
But you will have to admit it is a simple way of introducing Harn to someone
without any experience in it. Me i would say its more like Rolemaster, but that
wouldn't quite cover it. All skills (weapon and NON-weapon (love that
mentality)) are defined buy the individuals basic abilities, 12 stats, not
four. The skills are then affested by your chosen life path, and the life path
chosen for you by your culture and family. It can get a lot complex when it
comes to charecter gening, but it is worth it. the system is a percentile base
with d10's and d6's the only dice needed after character gen. Play is simple
and realistic. damage is a variation on modifiers. The more damage you take the
harder it is do things. Location is also taken into acount with killing blows,
incapaitating shots and general discomfort being taking into account. While it
is not a perfect system, it is one of the best i have found if you are looking
to do very "realistic" fantasy role-playing (did I just say that?).
        The system is put out by Columbia Games... 


        Th Anderson
From: tdunn@ecst.csuchico.edu (Tim Dunn)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Test post, please ignore
Date: 12 Nov 92 22:10:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: charnel.1dukodINN4hr
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: guzzler.ecst.csuchico.edu

Coyt D Watters writes:
>You're using an anonymous poster to post to rec.games.frp.misc!  WHY?
>I know, I know!  Your testing it because you really want to post to
>alt.sex.bondage, but are testing it here so, if it does not work, you
>won't be embarassed by having your *REAL* name appear.  B^)
>-Coyt, unreformed caffiene addict

Maybe even decaf is too late for this person.  And he's the FAQ
poster?  Mighod, what have we done!!!  =)

As for asb, what's wrong with that?  There was a thread on that group
a while about re: rpgs as well.  Nearly thought about crossposting
a followup here, but figured it's be as bad as mixing bleach and 
ammonia.  =)

-- 
Beware of Programmers who carry screwdrivers.
		-- Leonard Brandwein
From: tdunn@ecst.csuchico.edu (Tim Dunn)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Armor vs. Martial artists (was Re: GURPS: Armor / Martial-Arts / Guts / Glory)
Date: 13 Nov 92 19:51:52 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: hairball.ecst.csuchico.edu

>> Here's a hypothetical for you.  The skilled martial artist confronts a
>> sword-swinging armored knight.  
>Well, I think any martial artist would just get the hell out of there.

That would be true for most cases.  Most schools and teachers are very
much into 'combat avoidance'.  However, were we to address the situation
fully with the assumption that the two combatants are going to fight,
then what?

>Most of your offensive capabilities are nil vs. his armor. The very
>best punch in the world isn't going to do a heck of a lot of damage
>to someone in a good set of armor. 

Hmm, I disagree on the offensive capabilities bit.  If the armor is
flexible, then joint locks and other dislocating/tearing attacks would
work.  I'd imagine that most games allow armor to affect vs. falling
damage, but a trip would still be a trip, and a throw would still be
a throw.  Lastly, armor is not perfect (we're assuming medieval armor
here, right?  Not Stormtrooper armor) so there are still gussetts and
joints to hit.

You are right.  A Twisted Lotus (tm) Secret Ninja (r) Deth Strike (c)
will probably be less effective.  However, I'd say that the martial
artist is not ineffectual, as you assert.

>The knight's weapon is frightfully more effective on your skin. 

Agreed.  A 'club with an edge' as the swords of old were called, could
inflict some grevious damage.  They were fairly heavy, and maybe a little
slow.  That is all the advantage the martial artist has.  Dunno if it's
enough, however.

>Also, the knight was a mounted warrior. 

Hm?  I don't know where the horse came from.  The previous example as
I read it was only a knight, no mention of mount.  

-- 
Diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggy" until you can find a rock.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Jamieson Norrish)
Subject: Re: Middle Earth Role playing?
Organization: /u/student/jamie/.organization
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:53:12 GMT

In article <1992Nov05.205814.21048@rchland.ibm.com> seurer@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Bill Seurer) writes:

[complaint that MERP magic does not fit the Middle Earth setting.]

Quite true; I think the simplest solution is to just dump mages as a
PC (and even NPC, except for rarities like elves) class, have only
very few animists, and not give any but the weakest spells to Rangers.
Or you could just dump the spell system entirely, ensure that no PCs
can use magic, and play it by ear for NPCs; this way you have a chance
of getting the atmosphere close to what it should be.

Jamie
From: vputz@nyx.cs.du.edu (Victor Putz)
Subject: Re: Dangerous Journeys - query
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 15:10:21 GMT



..after a brief (3 hours + 2 sample character creations) read-through of
Mythus, I'm quite convinced that EGG wrote the game; it's even as
disorganized as AD&D 1, in just the right ways.  Personally I got a big
kick out of the rawness of it; reminded me of FRP gaming before it got
"slick".  And actually, I think it is a very viable and powerful gaming
system-- IF you're willing to put in the effort for proper preparation. 
THe rules, while complex, are all logically defined.  Reminds me an AWFUL
lot of some of the more complex MUD libraries floating around, with the
addition of human interaction.  All in all, I have to vote DJ as a gaming
success-- if an organizational and marketing fumble.  I'm going to convert
my current campaign, run a few test combats, etc, to see how it flows, but
I can quite see this being my game of choice.  However, it could do with a
good deal of computerization (particularly the cumbersome character
generation.)

-->Vputz
From: lavonius@kruuna.Helsinki.FI (Ville Lavonius)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: NAGEE archive location
Date: 8 Nov 92 09:27:35 GMT
Organization: Cthulhoid Entities for a Better Tomorrow

In article <1di5ciINN5fg@magna.ksu.ksu.edu> jamie@magna.ksu.ksu.edu (Jamie L Raymond) writes:

   I've recently tried to locate the NAGEE vol 1,2,& 3 with no
   success.  Archie has been of no help whatsoever.  Please, please
   post the ftp site where these illusive docs are hiding. 

teetot.acusd.edu.

At least they were there two weeks ago.
--
Ville Lavonius	        University of Helsinki, Dept. of Computer Science
lavonius@cc.helsinki.fi : "Too much of a good thing is WONDERFUL" - Mae West
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: jogle@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim))
Subject: Re: Conversion 
Summary: Marvel to Champions
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 05:54:21 GMT

In article <mumble> cgautier@zeus.calpoly.edu (Kit "Psycho" Gautier) writes:

>Well, here is my conversion system for Marvel to Champions.  I've
>play-tested this a few times and it is the best one _I've_ seen or used.
>It converts Marvel characters to what they would be using Champions 
>rules, based on a campaign where characters are around 250-400 points,
>which is what most characters in Champ supplement books are.

>  Marvel    Champions
>---------   ---------
>STRENGTH  =    STR
>AGILITY   =    DEX
>ENDURANCE =    CON
>REASON    =    INT
>PSYCHE    =    EGO
>POPULAR.  =    PRE

>RANK | STR | DEX | CON | INT | EGO | PRE | EB/HA |  KA   | FLIGHT |
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
> PR  |  8  | 15  | 10  |  7  |  8  | 12  |  2d6  | 1/2d6 |   5"   |

What happened to Feeble?

> TY  | 10  | 18  | 14  | 10  | 10  | 14  |  2d6  | 1d6-1 |   8"   |
> GD  | 15  | 21  | 18  | 14  | 13  | 18  |  3d6  |  1d6  |  10"   |
[...]

It's been a while since I played Champions, but isn't a value of 10
supposed to be average?  If so, a Typical Agility should not translate
to an 18 - that's way too generous.  Same comment goes for Con too.
(And Presence I guess but I'd be willing to let that slide.)

-- 
Kansas Jim (Jim Ogle, TORG guru)                               /|
jogle@aoc.nrao.edu (NRAO-VLBA, Socorro New Mexico)           o| |-
"I'd be apathetic if I cared."                              /| \|
From: dutech@reseau.Berkeley.EDU (Groupe ELEVES)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Middle Earth Role Playing
Keywords: Magic, it doesn't fit...
Date: 10 Nov 92 08:59:45 GMT
Reply-To: dutech@reseau.Berkeley.EDU (Groupe ELEVES)


 There is a complaint that MERP magic (system ?) doesn't fit in the
Middle Earth setting.

  That's partly true. The MERP system (and the RM system) is designed
for flashy magic, especially as long as pure spell users are concerned.
This has not the "soft magic" feeling of Middle-Earth ( where Gandalf
hesitates to light a simple fire ).


 - The time described in the LoTR is the Time of Shadows, when the
influence of Sauron is greatest. No true magic user can escape his
scrutiny. But the time setting of most of the MERP modules is set about
1400 years earlier, in a time when the lore of the Dunedain is not com-
-pletely lost, and the influence of Darkness lesser. So a stronger
"magic influence" could be viable then.

 - If you use the semi spell user professions (Ranger and Bard), they
have magic akin to "innate talents" (I don't quite remember the MERP
spell lists, but the Rolemaster lists have this feeling). This kind of
magic works well in a Middle-Earth setting. Even Animists could be
allowed, with a overlook of their spell lists.

 - It all depends on the players and the GM in the end. For example, we
had a Middle Earth Campaign a few years ago, that lasted 4 years, and
saw the PCs roam most of the western part of the continent. Some of the
most prominents PCs were at least partially spell users ( a Ranger, a
Bard, and an Illusionist ), some of the NPCs were DEFINETELY spell
users, and the Middle-Earth feeling was kept to full strength. There
were no excesses - except for the minions of the Dark Power, of course.
And when they went to Ardor, the different feeling ( magic feeling )
there was very disturbing - as it had to be.

  But enough of this rambling. This is of course IMHO, and I admit being
partial to Rolemaster ( which I still use after 10 years ).

							Redwing.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: bcash@crchh410.BNR.CA (Brian Cash)
Subject: Re: Role Master Physics question
Reply-To: bcash@crchh410.BNR.CA (Brian Cash)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 02:04:21 GMT

>The best way to see the difference is if you consider an adventurer
>on a frictionless dungeon floor....
>
>
>--Peter

Consider a spherical dragon...
:)

Brian /-|-\
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Carrying weapons around (was Re: META: Swords, etc)
Date: 13 Nov 92 03:57:42 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@unixd1.cis.pitt.edu

In article <wilder.721620199@mik.uky.edu> wilder@nx04.mik.uky.edu (jeff wilder) writes:
>Not to cast myself as Net cop, or anything, but please take this shit
>to rec.nutcase.guns, okay?

	Er, it does have relevancy here -- if you read past the first several
paragraphs, which are making parallel points with the ones made later about
adventurers. So chill.

>Reading this NRA zombie crap makes me ill.

	NRA what? I don't belong to the NRA, I have no affiliation with 
them, and most certainly am not one of their "zombies". I don't take
positions of this nature without long and careful thought.

	So, in the spirit of your own post, take your closed-minded
coward's posts to alt.liberal.aint.got.guts  :)

	Seriously, people who wave around guns as thought they were the
solution to all ills are wrong. In my considered opinion, they're no more
wrong than the people who think that banning guns is the solution.

	To make this relevant to frp groups, the gun nut is the munchkin
with the wand of fireballs in melee combat, and the antigun nut is
the pacifist who tries to negotiate with Sauron.


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
From: ez007612@hamlet.ucdavis.edu (Tim Prestero)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: APPLESEED
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:04:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: ucdavis.19055
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis

In article <83197@ut-emx.uucp> aodn307@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Joshua Henry Geurink) writes:
>In article <1da0kvINN94r@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> tdunn@ecst.csuchico.edu (Tim Dunn) writes:
>>Ridley McIntyre writes:
>>Rumor is that Studio Proteus signed on with Palladium.  

A game company who swiped their game mechanics from AD&D?!? Aaaauuuuugh!

>AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!
>
>NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
(comments left for further effect)

>And so it goes.  Players can rape the Palladium system WITHIN the rules
>to the point of having UNSTOPPABLE characters.  RIFTS was OK once I outlawed
>Glitterboys, Full-Conversion Borgs, and Dragons as PC's.

But think of the positive side. You could have crossover adventures with
THE NINJA TURTLES! All those nifty action figures!

>I can see APPLESEED using R.Talsorian's rules (AFTER REVAMPING THOSE RIDICULOUS
>ENCUMBERANCE RULES!!!  A character with a high REF stat can layer armor
>until nothing short of a tank gun will bruise him...), MAAAAAYBE Shadowrun
>after some rule-revamping, but not Palladium.  Please, Lord, not Palladium...

Actually, I've been playing an Appleseed-style game using Leading Edge's
Living Steel and Phoenix Command game mechanics, and I think it gives the
right "atmosphere". Deadly combat, differences between weapons/weapon types
amounting to more than just their pictures (a la Srun, et all), great
powered armor rules, etc. Maybe once the company finishes Predator (and
Palladuim games mysterious explode), they could do Appleseed (yeah, right).

Ciao,
Tim Prestero
ez007612@hamlet.ucdavis.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Star Wars second edition....
From: mikew@mdcbbs.com (Mike 'the Bard' Whitaker)
Date: 9 Nov 92 03:16:44 PDT
Organization: Shape Data - a division of EDS Ltd
Summary: Hmmmmmmm

Well, I finally got my hands on a copy of the Star Wars 2nd Ed. rulebook on 
Saturday. 

Nice cover, several really nice colour pictures inside...

...but...

Yeah. well - it's better than 1st edition, but it still ain't perfect!

Major whinge - no ****ing index! My copy is already festooned with Post-It 
notes marking the important pages - the contents page is stunningly unhelpful
and the layout of the book is, IMHO, not conducive to finding things in a 
hurry.

Major rules changes - hmm lessee.... You can now specialise in some skills - 
some of these are sensible (like say, having a weapon of choice) but some of
them are stretching it a bit - I mean, EVERYONE just about is gonna specialise 
in Dodge (Energy Weapons)...

Skills rolls - WILD DICE!!!! Argghhh - this is cretinous IMHO - for all dice 
rolls, you roll one dice of a different colour - if it turns up six, roll 
again and add, if it turns up one, something bad happens (typically lose the 
wild dice + your highest dice off the roll). Make combat wildly (hehe) 
unpredictable, and my group and I ditched it by common consent after one fight 
with three stormtroopers and an assasin droid. Think about it - something odd 
happens one roll in three!

Combat damage - no longer based on multiple of Damage over Str roll, but on
difference. It's now harder to get stunned (you can actually take no damage 
from being hit!) and much harder to actually DIE by rolling 3 one's on a 3D 
strength roll...

Actions in rounds - yeah well - they've clarified the interaction of movement
and combat, but they're removed the concept of haste actions - now there's
an initiative roll (opposed PER roll between highest PER on both sides - winner
gets to choose whether side declares and acts first or second - then both 
sides declare in order of PER within side, then act in order of PER within 
side - actions are considered sequantial - if you shoot the stormtrooper, he no
shoot back!). IMNSHO., I preferred the 1st ed method....

They have tidied up the mess of different dice scales quite neatly, and in 
general cleaned up MOST of the infelecities... Just the whinges above that 
don't appeal to me.


I expect ultimately to be playing a bastardised cross between the two, with
the 1st Edition combat sequencing and *No* wild dice on top of second edition.

Mike

P.S. anyone interested in a simple phased movement system for Star Warriors...?
-- 
Mike Whitaker +44-223 | mikew@mdcbbs.com, bard@spuddy.uucp | Me: Bards just
Shape Data/EDS 316673 | -or- mwhitaker@cix.compulink.co.uk | KNOW things...
From: millerl@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Entelechy request
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:42:10 GMT
Organization: Newt World Order

In article <1992Nov5.173325.18774@news.acns.nwu.edu>, chuk@giskard.acns.nwu.edu (Chuk Craig) writes:
> A few months ago, someone posted about a Hero Games science-fiction

that was me.

> campaign setting they had created.  The setting was called Entelechy.  
> I've unfortuneately deleted those posts, and would greatly appreciate 
> it if anyone who had saved them could repost or e-mail them to me.

It's archived at grass-server@wharton.upenn.edu

Just send email to that address with a subject line saying help.

-- 
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller                           internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
Mediocrity is a hand rail.                         -- Baron de Montesquieu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: CS341A002@Husky1.StMarys.Ca (Loki)
Subject: Re: Twilight nightvision etc.
Organization: The Underground
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 14:46:56 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.13.SMU

ketil@sandel.ii.uib.no writes:
>>>>>> On 3 Nov 92 17:39:46 GMT, CS341A002@Husky1.StMarys.Ca (Loki) said:
>>I know about  a 'starlight' device to attach to helmet or face
>>(in real world), anybody know what else that exists in the way of
>>night vision devices (again in the real world)?
>
>   Loki> Well, in Dark Conspiracy there's the GE 25* Image
>   Loki> Intensifier, which acts as night vision and as
>   Loki> binoculars. Likely it's somewhere in Twilight as well.
>
>Is this like goggles to mount on your helmet/face, or more like a set
>of binoculars in size/shape?

   The description implies binoculars. It's very vague tho. I use 'em as
binocs.

>>How about laser sights in conjunction with goggles or similar stuff?
>
>   Loki> Laser sights allow three aimed shots in a phase instead
>   Loki> of only one, assuming they're visible to the user and
>   Loki> the target is within 40m. If, say, you have an IR laser
>   Loki> sight, you need IR goggles to see it. If you have a
>   Loki> visible laser sight, you don't need goggles; however it
>   Loki> makes the gun less of a sniper weapon and more of an
>   Loki> assault weapon as the enemy can see the dot too.
>
>I don't think the laser is much use for sniping anyway, as you'd have
>problems correcting for range (the bullet falls, the laser doesn't)
>I hear they have low intensity lasers for use with starlight equipment
>(in the real world that is).

   Yeah. In Dark Con/Twilight, laser sights are only effective to 40m.

   Good for building-to-building snipers tho. 3 aimed shots are usually
deadly...

>I also hear that a flare will effectively ruin starlight equipment, it
>will shut down to avoid damage to itself or the user's eyes.
>From a reliable source in sci.military :-)

   Yeah. Flash grenades and illumination mortar rounds will work too. ;)

         Loki         | cs341a002@husky1.stmarys.ca | Brynjolfr Myrkjartanarson
 often sysop of TWWOL | cs341a002@stmarys.bitnet    |    Compaignie Mercurie

There was exactly one power base available to sustain the old form of
government. Organized crime.

                --- Nick Haflinger, in John Brunner's Shockwave Rider
From: tdunn@ecst.csuchico.edu (Tim Dunn)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Steve Jackson Games/Secret Service Incident
Date: 8 Nov 92 07:32:09 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: hairball.ecst.csuchico.edu


"Urban Legend" sytle refence to above case:

In the DC comic "The H@cker Files", they mention that a "Stan Johnson
Games in Dallas" was busted by Secret Service men.  It's familar, but
I can't place were they got the name from....=)

Oh, yeah.  In their 'reality,' "Sun Devil" is replace by "Moon Witch."

-- 
"Why isn't there a special name for the tops of your feet?"
		-- Lily Tomlin
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: jasonr@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Jason F Ralph)
Subject: Re: 2300AD Anyone play this game
Organization: University of Sussex
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 12:10:31 GMT

lsd@ruc.dk (Lauge Stendahl Johansen) writes:
: 
: I've resently got a copy of this game, and i'm reading the rules right now,
: do anyone out there play this game, and have you in way changed the rules?
: Do you have any scenario you could send me?
: Anything about the game please write to about it
: 
Excellent sci-fi game. Probably the best sci-fi game around: nice
playable combat system (which is deadly and somewhat plausable), nice
experience and character development system and large background
available. The only flaw that I can think of is the need to do a lot of
background reading if you are thinking of running it. You need to know
the background inside out if you're intending to run it (as I found out
to my cost) because if you don't someone else will... The background can
also be a bit constrictive at times.

Combat should be actively discouraged, except in extreme situations,
because of its deadly nature... but this should encourage role-play and
constructive planning (though it doesn't always).

Play it for one off scenarios to get the feel of the game... 

E.E. 'Doc' Splot

'Shameless' Shamus O'Dork guide to T2300 combat:
1. Shoot first.
2. Shoot to kill.
3. Shoot it again to make sure.
4. Reload.
5. Repeat as required.