From: bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au (Bernd Felsche)
Subject: Socialism. (was: Compulsory Voting.)
Organization: MetaPro Systems, Perth, Western Australia
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 04:25:51 GMT

In <1992Jul24.095331.89501@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
   phs265y@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au writes:

>         But the idea that socialism can be "installed" is one of the
>conerstones of Stalinism. Marx's conception of socialism was that it could only
>be achieved by the self activity of the working class, which under advanced
>capitalism is the overwhelming majority of the world's population. 

>         There are objective material conditions why the working class in
>Russia failed to create socialism, the most pressing being that Russia had a
>small working class in 1917 and it was almost destroyed by WWI and the civil
>war that followed it. In China, Cuba, Vietnam it wasn't the working class that
>created "socialism", it was imposed from above by the leaders of peasant
>armies.

Your are historically incorrect in asserting that there was
a small working class in Russia prior to the revolution. It
was not the industrialised working class (proletariat)
envisaged by Marx et al, but is was a rural working class,
with a mostly monarchy-based bourgeoise. There were also
serfdoms, if I recall history correctly.

Lenin, Trotsky, and others did not see that as a significant
distinction and impediment to socialism. Neither did Mao and
his fellow warlords. The elements which Marx defined for
socialism to exist did not presume industrialisation, though
population density as a result of it, was implied.

>         My whole contention is that in today's world the possibility of
>socialism (from below) being achieved is far greater and even more pressing. 

And that is where you are wrong.

Although people in the more developed countries have the
ability to provide greater social benefits, that is only
because they are capitalist countries and have a large
proportion of the population at a high standard of living.

>The working class on a world scale is much larger and stronger than at any 
>other point in history. Despite what the apologists for capitalism say, you 
>only have to look briefly at the situation the world is in today to see the 
>tremendous crisis. And you only have to briefly examine capitalism 
>historically to see that today's crisis is in no way an accidental or a 
>one-off event.

Much of the world crisis, as seen from the perspective of
the less-developed countries, has been caused by those
pushing for socialism/communism trying to forcibly impose
their ideals on a majority. Take a look at Ethiopia for
example. Such Stalinist practices are causing the deaths of
millions every year through famine and war casualties.

Clearly, only those who take the Stalinist approach, have
any chance of implementing what they call socialism, though
it's just as much a power-trip for them as it is for
capitalist regimes.

I should mention though, that no "capitalist revolution"
which I know of, has caused decades of unrest or sustained
famine. A *capitalist* revolution is the one which comes
from below. That is human nature, and to suppress it, means
to impose a Stalinist regime of egalitarian, "socialist"
totalitarianism.

True socialism implies egalitarianism. People are equal, but
they are not the same. An egalitarian society fails to
exploit the differences between individuals for the benefit
of society. Capitalism provides a catalyst for the
exploitation of differences to the benefit of society.
-- 
+-----+ Bernd Felsche                     _--_|\  #include <std/disclaimer.h>
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