HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: teshima@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (A. Lani Teshima)
Subject: Re: Wolves
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 04:37:59 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.203820.3003@hellgate.utah.edu> allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:
>A sad note, I heard this through a friend so I would wait and see if it
>makes the papers.  Over the weekend a wolf was shot and killed outside
>of Yellowstone.  From what he heard the person who shot it knew it was
>a wolf.  In Wyoming the wolf is still considered a preditor and can be
>shot without question.  However, I believe the Endangered Species
                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Act would override any state law.  In someways all this is good and bad
 ^^^
>news, maybe there are more wolves in the area than people think but we can
>not afford to lose one to some SOB shooting it.

The ESA is hanging on a tiny string as we speak because of our
wonderful environmental president. Next year, we may not have an ESA
to protect animals this way--if I recall correctly, Bush may choose
not to renew the ESA while he's still in office, so I don't think
there's anything Clinton could do should he get elected.

Just the ramifications of this make me shudder.




--
A. Lani Teshima (teshima@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.edu)       o | /_/_/ "Sea Hare"
Student, UH School of Library & Information Studies     o|<0_0>--------*
A small mind is easily filled with faith.                 \=^-| |____| | 
Blessed is a mind too small for doubt.                        \_}B   \_}B
From: ajs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Alan Silverstein)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Toddler in High Sierra
Date: 13 Oct 92 18:38:31 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

> ...get or chop down a paddle to their size.  That way, they have their
> _own_ paddle.

Yeah, I've discovered that to be amazingly important when canoeing with
my daughter (now age 9).  Also expect the child's paddling to be more
like a steering challenge than a source of propulsion.  :-)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: flb@lune.berkeley.edu (Frederick Lee Burghardt)
Subject: Re: Bears attacking people?
Reply-To: flb@lune.berkeley.edu (Frederick Lee Burghardt)
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 19:57:00 GMT

In article <Bw6Bu1.D71@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>, molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom
Molnar) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct15.162722.3740@afterlife.ncsc.mil>
mssmith@afterlife.ncsc.mil (M. Scott Smith) writes:
|> # Out of curiosity, is there any way to protect oneself against a bear
|> # (besides taking preventive measures; let's assume you're hiking and you
|> # come across a bear and s/he's not too terribly pleased about it)?
|> # ...
|> # (I'm actually serious about the aerosol can..  Would something be
effective
|> # against a bear attack, blinding the bear so you could run away, or would
|> # it just tick off the bear?)
|> 
|> Scott, there is just such a product on the market.  It's called "Bear
Guard".
|> It comes in a aerosol can, and the active ingredient is capiscum (sp?)
|> which is derived from pepper.  Some call it "pepper spray".  The spray
|> is very effective if you can apply it soon enough.  The spray is touted
|> as being harmless in that the victim is not harmed in any permanent
|> fashion (but they or it are in agony for about 20 minutes).
|> 
|> I've seen the results of this spray and I'm convinced about its
effectiveness.
|> 
|> Smaller versions of this spray are available for protection against dogs
|> as well.
|> 
|> You should find this product in surplus/camping outlets.
|> 
|> Regards,
|> Tom

I, too have seen this stuff in action.  Last August in the Sierra a bear
came into
camp in the wee hours of the morning.   My buddy had a can of Bear Guard, and 
let the animal have it right in the face from about 20 feet.  I've never
seen a bear 
move so fast - nothing but bear ass and flying pads the instant the spray hit 
him.  He never came back, either.  Although it was a windless night there was
just enough drift in the air to blow a little of the spray back toward
us, and I
can personally testify that it's nasty stuff.

Lee
From: bblohm@boi.hp.com (Bill Blohm)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Giardia in the Pacific Northwest
Date: 17 Oct 92 01:10:21 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Throughout this thread I have yet to see a comment on something a friend and
I have discussed.  Perhaps we just don't know enough about giardia.

We noticed that the filters (we both have different ones) are commonly sold
in a zip-lock bag.  Nice.  *BUT* how many people think to put the intake tube
in a separate zip-lock so that it does not contaminate the output tube?  Is
this even necessary?  My guess is that most people use the bag the unit came
in to hold it all together in their pack.  So, the intake tube is put in the
water, water is pumped into the water bottle, then the whole thing is taken
apart and put back in it's bag.  Won't the intake tube now be contaminated?

I think I am mostly thinking about when trying to make a campsite and you
stop to fill your bottles and get going again.  At a campsite, you would of
course have more time to insure everything is dry and cleaned up before being
put away.

Is this worth considering, or are we just over-cautious?  I sometimes will be
filling my water bottle while in the canoe, so will not always have time to
properly dry things out before putting them back in their bags.

Bill Blohm     

*******************************************************************************
Standard disclaimers apply, even if nobody ever listens to me.
*******************************************************************************

bblohm@hpbs1686.boi.hp.com     \\
mage@hpbs202.boi.hp.com         =======\  You pays your money, takes your pick.
bill@hpbs202.boi.hp.com         =======/  They all reach me, or soon or late.
bill_blohm@hp4600.desk.hp.com  //
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Encountering contraband in the backcou
Date: 12 Oct 92 15:49:45 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <14900@auspex-gw.auspex.com> johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
>
>O.K. we've got marijuana growers in California and bootleggers in Kentucky
>so far.  Let me add another data point.
>
>I read a book awhile back called "Running the Amazon".  I don't recall the
>authors name but it's an incredibly fasinating book about a group of people
>that "ran" the entire length of the Amazon river from it's source at over
>17k' to the mouth at ocean.  During the trip they came across some sections

It's by Joe Cane or Kane, as I recall.   Yes, it is an excellent book.
-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: CA.FER@forsythe.stanford.edu (Jennifer Gates)
Subject: backpacking in Japan?
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 22:52:02 GMT

I'm planning on going to Japan next year. I would like to do some
backpacking in the Mountians there... Does anybody know anything
about backpacking in Japan??? Please reply via E-mail.
Thanks
Jennifer Gates
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: Backcountry in the Movies
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:07:18 GMT

cheu@venus.its.uci.edu (Kelvin Cheu) writes:
> anymore ?
>
Never Cry Wolf
The Grey Fox	(about a retired train robber)

--Chris
From: czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Helly Tek: Another Goretex Clone?
Date: 8 Oct 92 15:06:58 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments


Does anyone know how Helly-Hansen's "Helly Tek" material compares with
Goretex?  Is it a Goretex clone?  The shell I bought last year for my
high altitude climbing clothing is made of Helly Tek.  I've only worn it
in fairly clear weather above snow line (>16,000 feet).  I'm wondering how it
would behave if it got really wet at that altitude.

Cary Czichon
czichon@csc.ti.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eric@quantum.on.ca (Eric Johnson)
Subject: Re: Wolves and Bears
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 19:18:44 GMT
Organization: Quantum Software Systems

In article <1992Oct13.091746.24364@hellgate.utah.edu> allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:
>>stuff deleted<<
>On a side note.  Last week I posted a comment about a man who was
>killed by a sow grizly bear rightly fully protecting her cubs in
>Glacier National Park.  The park is planning on killing the bears (the
>sow and two cubs) because they had eaten part of the victim.  The
>officals "believe" that now that the bears have tasten human meat
>that they will be more agressive towards humans in the future.  I
>personally find this thinking absurd as this was an isolated
>incident.  Personally I am getting tired of every time a human
>interfers with wildlife and gets hurt or killed that the animal is
>concidered dangereous and is killed.  (Gee just think if we inacted
>such an attitude towards other humans, next time some repeat offender
>mugs grandma we go out and shoot them).

I will try to remember to let your words of wisdom temper my emotional
reaction next time some repeat offender goes out and eats grandma.

-- 
Eric Johnson (eric@quantum.qnx.com or try eric@quantum.on.ca)
Technical Development, Quantum Software Systems Ltd (QNX OS)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: JB <jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com>
Subject: Problems w/ NorthFace tents, a ?
Organization: NT/BNR
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1b3
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1992 11:58:27 GMT

Of those of you reporting problems with your North Face tent poles, how
many had aluminum poles and how many had fiberglass poles?  From personal
experience and word of mouth only, I have never heard of anyone breaking
an aluminum pole, but the fiberglass ones are known to shatter.  Thanks
for the input.         

JB
*******please God let this election be over soon, this kinder and gentler
*******administration is killing me
From: hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal F Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Identifying snakes
Date: 7 Oct 92 14:39:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: vice.10498
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

In article <1992Oct5.192212.633@oracorp.com> davidg@oracorp.com (David Guaspari) writes:

>Yesterday, on a dirt road in upstate New York, I shooed some kids away
>from a snake that had 

>  (a) a flat, triangular head
>  (b) a heavy body

>-- the standard identifying characteristics of pit vipers -- but did
>*not* have

True but other (non-venomous) snakes also have similar
characteristics.

>  (c) slit-like pupils (the pupils of the eyes were round, or perhaps
>only seemed so from the possibly-greater-than-necessary distance from
>which I studied them)

Good idea!  I am not anxious to get real close to a snake until I'm
sure it's safe.

...

>Two out of three isn't exactly science, but it was good enough for me.
>Any informed opinions on what kind of snake it was?

Sounds like you were wise to be cautious.  The basic rule is to
leave a snake alone unless you know it is not venomous.  In that
area you are likely to be fairly safe but I would still not take any
chances.  The surest indicator is the underscales behind the anal
plate but for obvious reasons you don't want to pick up the snake to
examine them!

I will email you the (long) FAQ on snakebite.  It includes some
identification information.
From: diverson@phys.ksu.edu (David Iverson)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Encountering contraband in the backcountry
Date: 13 Oct 1992 00:55:48 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: dirac.phys.ksu.edu

In <1992Oct12.220739.28071@informix.com> proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts) writes:

>In article <81527@ut-emx.uucp> psilsbee@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Peter Silsbee) writes:

>>	Anyway, he was on land which had been leased to someone who
>>apparently didn't know he had a right to be on, and was promptly 
>>shot, no questions asked (survived, leg wound I think). So, watch
>>those private lands...
>>
>>--Peter

>There seems to be a great tradition of shooting trespassers in the US.
>Is it *really* true that in Texas you some sort of "right" to do so?
>i.e. that the police will not come and take you away if you do it?
>I have seen this asserted but I can barely believe it. I am assuming,
>of course, that said trespasser is not threatening violence in any way.

>Paul

My understanding of the situation is that the Law lets you do just about
anything you want to people who are trespassing such as shoot them and such,
one key is to keep the body on your side of the property line.

However, the Civil Law lets the trespasser sue your ass for just about
anything in the world, such as tetanus for getting hung up on a barbed-wire
fence, twisted ankles for falling in a ditch, and, of course, BIG
settlements if you shoot at said trespasser.

In my opinion, both are totally crazy.

-diversion

--
diverson@phys.ksu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.travel
From: sdfinuca@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Sean Finucane)
Subject: Survival courses (or close to it)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 19:11:33 GMT

I am trying to find out about wilderness courses.
They do not necessarily need to be complete survival courses 
(i.e. Here's a knife, here's the wilderness, GO),
but should be to some degree stressful in that one needs to use
all one's resources and "inner strengths" to complete.

I know that Outward Bound offers such courses, and I am waiting to 
hear back from them with info.  However, I do not know of any others,
nor could I think af anywhere else to ask.

Criteria:  	Anywhere in the world
		Reasonable cost would be nice (though I know that
		this can get expensive)
		Involving hiking, canoeing, climbing, or anything
		really.
		Provides enough training that at the end I have
		lots of new practical information and skills as
		the experience itself
	
Any info or contact numbers or experiences with companies would be
appreciated.

If I get enough replies, I will try and summarize.

Many Thanx,
Sean Finucane, sdfinucane@descartes.uwaterloo.ca
Citizen of the World.
From: pgheit01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Backcountry in the Movies
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:52:27 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <2ADCF533.26898@news.service.uci.edu>, cheu@venus.its.uci.edu (Kelvin Cheu) writes:
> anymore ?

Sure!
Crocodile Dundee I and II 

Out of Africa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|pH Fred == pgheit01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu    |         "What we lack         |
|        == ..!psuvax1!ulkyvx.bitnet!pgheit01 |   in enthusiasm, we make up   |
|           University of Louisville          |         for in apathy."       |
|                Louisville, KY               |                               |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee)
Subject: Re: Gregory Backpacks
Reply-To: klee@wsl.dec.com
Organization: DEC Western Software Laboratory
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 21:58:06 GMT

|> I have an opportunity to buy a Gregory internal fram backpack, 
|> cheap.  I'm looking for something to take skiing for overnight
|> trips.  Any opinions on Gregory?  Are the packs nice? 

Gregory packs are well made, but they are designed to fit the body very
closely, so they don't fit everyone equally well.  The same is probably
true for most high end internal frame packs.  Make sure you try them on
first, preferably packing a load similiar to what you would carry in
the field.

-- 
Ken Lee
DEC Western Software Laboratory, Palo Alto, Calif.
Internet: klee@wsl.dec.com
uucp: uunet!decwrl!klee
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Coyotes (was Re: Wolves)
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:38:18 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Oct7.144257.18456@guinness.idbsu.edu> jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu writes:
>
>Holy shit.  Were they wearing lycra?  Oh no, ... I bet they take
>their human pets with them when they go camping too ... a living
>hell, coyotes in lycra sitting around the campfire singing Kumbaya,
>with their pet humans running around unchained playing Lynard Skynard.

It's the drunk male coyotes that you really want to avoid.

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Subject: Re: Bears attacking people?
    <1992Oct15.162722.3740@afterlife.ncsc.mil> 
    <Bw6Bu1.D71@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> 
    <1992Oct16.161436.27040@news.cs.brandeis.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 22:40:52 GMT
Organization: University of Kentucky, USA. -5 GMT

andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang) writes:

>I can believe that it is effective, but will how will it deal with 
>the momentum of 350-400 lbs of bear moving at 20mph?  If its range is
>less than 10ft, you are nearly within a swipe and certainly there must
>be a 1/4 second before it affects the bear, IF you get it into its
>face.  I'm dubious.

Many of the larger units claim to have a 20' to 30' range. I have seen
unretouched (so claimed) photos that indicate that the larger cans do have
a greater than 10' range.

>However, how about just a noisemaker?  Starter's pistol?  Marine
>flares?  Of course this last would be great in the tinderbox forests
>of the NW!
>-andy

 There is a device that appears to be effective. They are a small "firecracker"
type cartridge that is shot from a small blank pistol. The cartridge leaves
the gun and explodes (as loud as a REAL M-80) appx. 200 feet away.
I have seen film footage of these being used against polar bears (reportedly
one of the more aggressive species). The extremely loud explosion ran off
multiple bears including a few that looked very determined to attack. These
are readily available here in Kentucky, but I don't know how obtainable they
are in other parts of the country. The cartridges are imported from Germany.
Things to keep in mind: I'm sure they would be illegal to use in many states.
They do present a fire hazard in exteremly dry conditions. They are dangerous.
I have some myself, and can attest to the respect and caution they demand.



Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: dsc@gemini.tmc.edu (Doug S. Caprette Bldg. 28 W191 x3892)
Subject: Re: Encountering contraband in the backcountry
Followup-To: misc.legal
Summary: Trespassers will be shot.  Survivors will be prosecuted...
Organization: NASA GSFC CDP VLBI
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 22:34:25 GMT

In article <dean.719086491@paisley> dean@gold.rtsg.mot.com writes:
>In <1bd6qlINN8cr@moe.ksu.ksu.edu> diverson@phys.ksu.edu (David Iverson) writes:
>
>>My understanding of the situation is that the Law lets you do just about
>>anything you want to people who are trespassing such as shoot them and such,
>>one key is to keep the body on your side of the property line.

Your understanding is enormously fucked up!

>
>This varies from state to state.  When I was in college in Oklahoma a
>few years back there was much commotion on the proposed "make my day bill"
>I believe it came down to where you would still be held accountable for
>the injury/murder of the trespasser, but if you could show that you or
>your family was in a real risk of harm, then it was justifiable.  This
>is vague enough that many things would probably be able to pass as
>justifiable.
>

In general, in the United States, the use of reasonable force is permitted
to remove a tresspasser from private property.  Reasonable force is something
like shouting, waving a stick in the air, and maybe pushing.  The use of 
deadly force is not permitted to remove a tresspasser per se.  Deadly force
is force which may cause death or serious injury.   While it is theoretically
possible that yelling at someone might frighten to the extent that they have a
heart attack, only an idiot would claim that shouting constitutes deadly force.

If, however, someone attempts to force entry into a domicile (i.e. someone's
home) the use of deadly force is pemitted against them in all, or nearly all
states.  Some states may/may not require that some manner of warning be given.

The key to determining whether or not deadly force is permitted, is establishing
whether or not the individual against whom the force is used could reasonably
be considered to have been threatening the individual who used it.  A second,
and very subjective consideration, is whether or not the person who used deadly
force could have safely fled instead.  In general, someone strollin through
your yard, or even trampling the flowers in your garden, does not constitute a 
threat to your safety.

By the way, *I* personally think that people who say the law permits them to
kill tresspassers are dangerous nut cases and avoid all contact with them.
I personally recommend against ever asserting your rights in a dispute with
someone who is armed.  For example, if you are hiking in a National Park and
some gun toting moron tells you that you are on his property, my advice is 
that you form him that you will leave 'his' property by the shortest possible
route, and then do so.  Life is precious.

For a better discussion of when and where the use of deadly force is permitted,
try posting to misc.legal.  With luck, some lawyers will get into a flame fest
on the issue. (:-)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Encountering contraband in the backcountry
From: derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 23:56:40 GMT
Organization: Fujitsu New Zealand

In article <1992Oct5.154113.9740@newshost.lanl.gov> mwj@beta.lanl.gov (William Johnson) writes:
>In article <1aj76hINNp3o@moe.ksu.ksu.edu> diverson@phys.ksu.edu (David Iverson) writes:
>>In <1992Oct2.233521.26251@newshost.lanl.gov> mwj@beta.lanl.gov (William Johnson) writes:
>>
>>>where I would tread *very* carefully, and would expect her to do likewise,
>>>because it is a notorious "drop zone" for duty-free shipments of interesting
>>>imported alkaloids.  Another place (Dale Redd and I swapped notes on this one
>>
>>
>>Hey, this really got me thinking.  From prime-time news shows, news-paper
>>articles, jungian group conciousness or whatever, I've got this weird
>>impression of backcountry marijuana patches, coca plantations, etc... that
>>supposedly litter the American backcountry that are defended by booby-traps,
>>men with machine-guns, etc...
>
>It doesn't have to be that melodramatic.  The area where I had one of my
>mildly scary encounters (with Feds, not with "obvious" bad guys; I was doing
>some geological field work rather than hiking/backpacking _per se_) is in the
>"badlands" of western New Mexico, where non-standard farming is about as
>likely to be successful as it would on Mars.

I remember a lecture on (I think) Dolomite formation.  At the end of the 
lecture having seen cheerful photos of the researcher,  his hammer poised
appropriately etc,  it was pointed out that he dissapeared during the next 
field season.  It was never established who caused his demise,  the Feds or
the Druggies.  Neither side believed his story about research.


-- 
Derek Tearne. -- derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz --  Fujitsu/ICL New Zealand -- 
Some of the more aware dinosaurs were worried about the environmental
consequences of an accident with the new Iridium enriched fusion reactor.  
"If it goes off only the cockroaches and mammals will survive..." they said.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry