HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tsang@cs.washington.edu (Donald Tsang)
Subject: Re: Paladin's abilities (was Re: ADND2: Suggestions on Warrior)
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 07:03:07 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.144632.3672@iscsvax.uni.edu> boelter3945@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>In article <1992Apr3.214101.18171@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov>,
>mikec@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Mike Civita) writes:
>> In article <1992Apr3.203745.16152@nic.unh.edu> B_LUND1@unhh.unh.edu (Marcus
>> Windwalker) writes:
>>>
>>>	90% Mental Magic Resistance? Active until -10 hp? Vault into saddle/
>>>warhorse?  Where? Is this 1st ed.? That's completely insane, IMO. Paladins
>>>have enough powers already :)
>> 
>> I completely agree, and therfore allow them no weapon spec., but
>> this stuff is all in the 2nd. ed. players. The vault into saddle in
>> 1 segment, and he can call his warhorse after X level, and the mental
>> magic immunity are all in the 2nd ed. I'm not making this stuff up, I'm
>> simply regurgitating it back at you.
>
>   Well, you're close, but not quite, Mike.  Accorind to the 2nd Ed PH, p. 27,
>the Paladin has these benefits:
>   [stuff deleted -- look it up.  gist: no mental resistance, etc]

The amazingly nasty abilities were part of the Cavalier
Super-Duper-Class in _Unearthed Arcana_, the bane of anti-Munchkins
everywhere.  Other benefits included being able to raise your combat
stats (Str, Dex, Con) every level... up to 19 in all stats but
Strength, where you were limited to 18/00 (awww...)

They also attacked more times per round than any other character, had
a +3 hit point bonus at first level, and increased hit and damage with
lance, sword, and mace of choice.  A 15th level mounted Cavalier could
theoretically do around 57 points of damage on a heavy lance charge vs
large-sized creatures (3d6 x 2 + 15 for level + 6 for strength).

Paladins were then given the "privilege" of being shoved in as a
subclass of Cavalier, where they got ALL the bonuses ON TOP of their
own, PLUS the ability to gain charisma at the same rate as the other
stats (2d10 % per level).

Munchkin city.  Stay away, for your own sanity's sake.

-- 
Donald Tsang                    "Ho!  Haha!  Guard!  Turn!  Parry!  Dodge!
tsang@june.cs.washington.edu     Spin!  Ha!  Thrust!"
..!uw-beaver!june!tsang                       -- Robin Hood Daffy
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
From: tdunn@ecst.csuchico.edu (Continuum)
Subject: Re: Why do people like D+D/AD+D
Organization: California State University, Chico
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1992 16:03:08 GMT

Jack Brown writes:
>
>Anyway, what all the above semi-random ramblings are saying is that I like
>AD&D because it 1) fits my mental image of a fantasy world and 2) its
>combat is simple enough that it doesn't get in the way of the story.

Well, point 1 is near-irrefutable both pro and con.  I don't see DnD being
at all like *my* image of a fantasy world, but I do see that it can be like
some people's image.  So much for point 1.

My disagreement with point 2 is still of the nature of, "that's *your* 
opinion," but I see the system as a whole being an attempt at comprehensive
simplicity.  Sure, they are simple rules, but there are simply too many
of these rules, and it's not simple to learn them all.  You normally use
this rules, but in that case you'd use the other rule, unless it was the
second Tuesday of the week, in which....

Moreover, the poor quality of the rules (not cohesive, non-intitutive, and
yielding bad results) gets in the way of storytelling worse than if the
referee had no rules except his/her word alone.  The referee is stuck in a
quandry: does s/he allow the illogical result (yet again) and see the game
suffer for it in the form of reality checks and player incredulity, or will
s/he 'bounce' it?  If so, then why have rules in the first place?

Tim
From: mcdougal@lonestar.utsa.edu (Jon . McDougal)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Torg?
Summary: Socks tumbling in the dryer.
Date: 17 Apr 92 03:35:33 GMT
Followup-To: Underwear tumbling in the dryer.
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio


    'cuse me. Hey! Can we chill with the AD&D talk and the Undead talk
for one little moment? Does any know if there is a rec.games.torg? I
thought I saw one once, and it was pretty busy, but I just ran through
my list of .newsgroups and couldn't find me.

    I'm sure there must be some Torg players out there somewhere, if so,
please mail me as I have a rather important question (or ten) to ask. But
I would like to find out if there is a specific newsgroup for it, so I
can pester them for information. Thanks folks, back to the AD&D crap...

Splooging the gooze emphatic,
                          Jon
From: gt7219a@prism.gatech.EDU (Christopher Michael Lawyer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Re: GM's Pain
Date: 14 Apr 92 03:00:10 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

>
>Our GM was running a campaign about two years ago, and after a couple of
>adventures our party found itself on the threshold of a really huge 
>dungeon maze, full of traps and monsters, et al.  Well, to make a long
>story short, our party went down a hall, turned left, went through the 
>secret door, up the chimney, right, left, left, and down the stairs, and 
>voila!  We arrived at the BIG SCENE (tm) with the BIG BAD GUY (tm).  As 
>we found out later, we took the most direct route to the place, avoiding
>countless creatures and pits.  The GM was counting on us being very 
>chewed up by the time we finally got to the climax, and had deliberately
>scaled down the BAD GUY.  Consequently, we utterly destroyed the place and
>all that was in it.
>----------
>Dave (an26@sol.acs.unt.edu)

I was once playing in a similar situation.  We were running
some ADND module or another, and we were in a maze.  Using
what can only be described as instinctive astrogation, we 
cleverly went through the maze without encountering anything 
at all.  Then we got to the BIG BAD GUY (tm).  We thought 
that we were cool.   Unfortunately, the module explicitly
stated that whatever monsters in the maze had not been 
defeated would appear in the room with the BIG BAD GUY (tm).
Needless to say it was standing room only.

-The manatee-
gt7219a@prism.gatech.edu
From: wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu (William Henry Timmins)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Re: Shadowrun: Controlling magicians
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:58:29 GMT
	<1992Apr14.201111.6482@ulowell.ulowell.edu>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

>Uh, guys?  Could I insert just a SHRED of reality here?
>IT'S A GAME!!
>The matrix works the way it does because it fits the genre.  There's no
>NEED to speculate on how it does this or that.  It just DOES!

	Sigh. I haven't been following this thread, but let me indicate why
they are discussing such things:

	Yeah, it's just a game. Because it's a game, you want things to make
sense. If you are a being with even a shred of curiousity, and your
character has to blunt any intelligence to avoid seeing things that
don't make sense in his/her world, then you get annoyed.

	Reality testing allows you to suspend disbelief, and allows you to come
up with ideas. The worst thing in a game is not to be able to come up
with ideas because the background has contradictions or makes no sense. 

Or-
"No, you can't do that."
"Why?"

1) Because it hasn't been done, and someone would have thought of it.
(ie- reality flaw)
2) Because it would destroy the world (ie- you invent a completely new
use of /bla/ which revolutionizes everything = reality flaw)
3) Because it would destroy the game (ie- you become lord of the
universe in a relatively easy way which no one's thought of before =
reality flaw)

-me
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
From: bret@technix.mn.org (Bret Indrelee)
Subject: Re: GENERAL: Tactics for a city assault
Organization: Technix Inc., St. Paul, MN, USA
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1992 23:46:23 GMT

In article <53810@hydra.gatech.EDU> tmiller@prism.gatech.EDU (Thomas Miller) writes:
>
>  In a large castle I am designing, the rulers (high-level NPCs) have
>put different monsters in different sections of the sewers.  For 
>example, the main dumping chutes all end up in the same large stinky
>tank...the various chutes (there are over a dozen) are inhabited by
>a number of gelatinous cubes and slimes.  The main tank is the lair
>of a monstrous colony of otyughs and neo-otyughs of abnormal size.
>  Granted, such monsters won't hold back high-level invaders for long...
>but there are so many monsters suitable for sewer patrol...even trolls
>or gigantic oozes, if you want a higher-level challenge.  When the 
>players invade the castle I mentioned, I am sure they will go for the
>sewers (isn't that the way it always happens in the movies...?  :)
>but will later regret it.
>  Just my 2 cents.
>




And there are a couple of REALLY good monsters for this.  I remember one
adventure (raiding a Mage's abandoned tower) where the garbage disposal
system was a gibbering mouther.  Lots of mouths, the noise acts as
confusion, can eat ANYTHING.

-Bret

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bret Indrelee		    |	Howe's Law:
email: bret@technix.mn.org  |	Everyone has a scheme that will not work.
I am not an employee of Technix, nor do I represent them in any way.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
From: jwtlai@jeeves.waterloo.edu (Jim W Lai)
Subject: Re: SRUN: Cyberware & sanity loss
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 22:05:15 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.160704.3282@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> cks@hawkwind.utcs.toronto.edu (Chris Siebenmann) writes:
>pmwg1641@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Peter M. White) writes:
>| But isn't progressive insanity such a charming idea?  It is a 
>| real attraction of the Cyberpunk system to me.  I haven't thought
>| of a good way to include in SR without imbalancing the system,
>| unfortunately.
>
> I think it's a bad idea, personally. Cybered types have enough
>problems already without adding more limits to how much cyberware
>they can have. Roleplay it if you want to, but don't force your
>players with mechanics.

I think any attempt at progressive insanity should be independent of the
character design anyway.  Even RTG Cyberpunk has offered means in their
supplements for reducing (and in lucky cases eliminating) the psychological
impact of the implantation of cyberware.  Mind you, these means are more
expensive.  And as someone pointed out, a manditory cyberpsychosis rule
would make it impossible to construct a Deunan-wanna-be (see Appleseed),
who has practically had a full-body replacement; he's mostly a laid-back
fellow.

Now the humanity rating from Vampire, on the other hand...
From: gt1275c@prism.gatech.EDU (gt1275c - Dave Pullen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Re: Inspired character names
Date: 16 Apr 92 02:57:08 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

From our Heroes Quest gaming:

Worf the Dwarf
Melvin the Elven

What can I say?  It was a goofy night all 'round...

  - Dave

-- 
Cthulu '92 - When you're tired  | "And in local news, four gang members died
of voting for the lesser of two | of lead poisoning today.  Story at 11..."
evils...                        | Internet: gt1275c@prism.gatech.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jason@pawnee.ugrad.ee.ufl.edu (Jason Griggs)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Re: HERO: critical hits (was Re: CHAMP: 1/2d6 vs d6-1)
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:39:06 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UF EE Department

In article <1992Apr14.054943.18957@cco.caltech.edu>, laurence@cco.caltech.edu (Dustin Lee Laurence) writes:

|> >heal is only 5 points per die,
|> 
|> A power whose use I've normally disallowed in FH.  D&D healing indeed.
|> 

   Yes, my Fantasy Hero group thinks the aid is too much also.  An alternative
that we use is restricting the max amount of healing possible.  Then you have
to heal naturally some more before another spell will have any effect.

--Jason
From: dfrancis@tronsbox.UUCP (Dennis Heffernan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Re: GURPS combat time.
Date: 10 Apr 92 01:40:35 GMT
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises Inc.

In article <1992Apr9.005040.1@happy.colorado.edu> sesharp@happy.colorado.edu writes:
|If I were to use a quick contest type system, I would use attacker weapon
|skill vs. full defender weapon or shield skill plus PD, with PD values
|reduced from the current levels to make hitting reasonably likely.  This 
|gives defense chances above 50% for evenly matched opponents and maintains
|the same balance for all skills with the same relative difference.  It still
|stacks the deck heavily in favor of the better fighter and increases the
|pressure for a skills race, but it might work.  The existing quick system
|looks unworkable if the players analyze it for the best tactics.
|

	I think the very first thing I did with the GURPS rules was to blow off
PD -- it's a stupid concept.  There's no reason to use two factors to
simulate the same thing.

	Originally, I used the standard defense rolls, and replaced PD with a
constant value of 3.  This is a hack, but it works...and it avoids the
silliness of someone putting on a few dozen pounds of armor and GAINING in
Dodge ability!

	Nowadays, I'm using the following:

	PARRY:  Quick Contest of Skills; ties go to the defender.

	BLOCK:  Ditto, using the appropriate shield skill, with a plus equal to
the shield's PD rating minus 1.

	DODGE:  Now a skill, based on the average of DX+HT (round down).  P/H,
defaults at -5.  Dodge is a Contest of Skill for melee attacks, but not for
ranged weapons; you only get to Dodge a ranged weapon if you're aware of the
attack (GM's option) and are free to do so (ditto...no Dodging snipers when
you're meleeing with half a dozen ninja).  Dodging snapshots is done at a
hefty minus, depending on the SS rating of the weapon.

	The only real problem is that it does tend to subordinate the Feint
maneuver.  It only pays to Feint if a) you have trained your Feint up, under
the Martial Arts rules, or b) the opponent has some bonus to his defense
roll that wouldn't apply to the Feint attempt -- frinstance, if he's
Blocking instead of Parrying, a Feint is probably worthwhile.


dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com   ...uunet!tronsbox!dfrancis     GEnie: D.HEFFERNAN1
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I don't understand why you make such a big deal out of everything...haven't
you learned; if it's not happenning to me it's not important?" -Murphy Brown
From: ar2j+@andrew.cmu.edu (Anthony Russell Rosania)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Re: Lich Killing Advice Needed
Date: 10 Apr 92 09:35:20 GMT
Organization: Freshman, Drama, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

.......or you could give back everything and reason with him...HA !

					Anthony

P.S. WHY is your DM doing this to you, sounds kind of unfair, or did you
ask for it?
From: nesiusra@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Keith)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Call Out Messages
Summary: this is an apology...
Date: 14 Apr 92 23:45:06 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center


   Hello All,

   Recently I put forth a "call out" message concerning the formation of a 
   Shadowrun/Cyberpunk based game club.  I had specified the letter to be
   restricted to the Indiana region, as that is where I and my friends are
   located.  I saw the posting however a second time, this time from someone
   named "Joshua."  I apologize for his use of my "call out" as I did not
   wish to waste the band-width of anyone beyond this region.  I apologize
   for his "re-issuance" of the letter.

   And to Joshua, next time, ask the original sender before redistributing
   an article of this nature.  I and many others, would not doubt appreciate
   the respect.

   Keith (nesiusra@sage.cc.purdue.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
From: man@magwien.gv.at (Andreas Manessinger)
Subject: Re: Fantasy "City Builder's Handbook"
Organization: Gemeinde Wien, MD-ADV/Md Ref. EPS
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 08:35:34 GMT

In article <1992Apr4.172452.2193@rtsg.mot.com> king@rtsg.mot.com (Steven King, Software Archaeologist) writes:

   Does anyone know of a good system for randomly generating details about
   cities in a fantasy world. ...

Maybe it's of little help to you but `Rolemaster Companion I' has at
least a system for the random generation of population distributions,
numbers of inns, theatres, ...

`RM Character Law & Campaign Law' offers a system for the random
generation of rivers and coastlines. I think, with a little effort it
could be customized to produce towns.

There are lots of other randomizing systems in RM, eg. for weather,
distribution of herbs and other things. The results tend to be fairly
plausible, but you should consider, that they all will have to be
modified to deliver what you need.

--
    /\              | eMail: "man@magwien.gv.at"
   /  \ndreas       | pMail: Kaiserstra\3e. 30/26; A-1070 Wien; Austria
  /\/\ \            | Work : Gemeinde Wien MD-ADV/Ma; Ref. EPS
 / /  \anessinger   | Phone: +43 (1) 9350434 or 4039584/13, FAX: 4039584/18
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
From: cks@hawkwind.utcs.toronto.edu (Chris Siebenmann)
Subject: Re: TROLLS in Shadowrun (what can they do?)
Organization: Ziebmef home away from home
Date: 15 Apr 92 20:18:18 GMT

fizban@lopez.UUCP (Jason Hamari) writes:
| Now, I also need some Gamemaster hints.  What is done about the weapons of
| adversaries when you defeat them in combat?  Could the runners take all of
| their weapons (as much as they could carry) and sell them?

 Looting bodies takes time, it means you have to hulk them around, it
ties those weapons to you if you use and discard them later ('must be
the same gang that hit Mitsuhama'), and on most runs you won't get very
much money compared to your fee. Remember that a fence will probably
give you only a fraction of their purcahse price -- if you can find one
that wants to deal in used corp weapons in the first place. They could
be handy for spreading fear and confusion and misdirecting the blame on
a later run, but that sort of thing requires other props as well.

 It's also terribly unstylish; people doing this sound more like a gang
than a Shadowrunning team. Slash in, do the deed, get out; don't hunt
around for other shit. People who work that way to maximize their
profit wind up inspiring wonders in Johnsons about whether or not
the team will 'maximize their profit' by selling out the prime objective
to the highest bidder; such thoughts are unhealthy, even if only to
the 'runners bank accounts.

 And if the Shadowrunners are picking up the weapons for themselves,
well, what sort of a 'runner uses a stock gun in the first place?  In
2050, custom-made guns should be trivial; hook the AutoCAD to the
AutoFAC and the AutoLathe, and off you go (non-armorers watch out; a
badly-designed gun can be lethal to *you*. Pay the pro his nuyen).
Encourage ingenuity and style, even if it's just to the extent that
your gear looks different.

--
"The Law of Software Development and Envelopment at MIT:

 Every program in development at MIT expands until it can read mail."
		- greg@math.berkeley.edu
cks@hawkwind.utcs.toronto.edu	           ...!{utgpu,utzoo,watmath}!utgpu!cks
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
From: tsang@cs.washington.edu (Donald Tsang)
Subject: Re: Paladin's abilities (was Re: ADND2: Suggestions on Warrior)
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 15:28:30 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.082218.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> hzhao@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
>> 
>> The amazingly nasty abilities were part of the Cavalier
>> Super-Duper-Class in _Unearthed Arcana_, the bane of anti-Munchkins
>> everywhere.  Other benefits included being able to raise your combat
>> stats (Str, Dex, Con) every level... up to 19 in all stats but
>> Strength, where you were limited to 18/00 (awww...)
>
>         Close. Str/Dex/Con could go to a max of 18, with Strength being able
>to go to 18/00. 

Sigh.  Must I quote from "The Foul Book"?

Page 15, right-hand column, paragraph 6...

"When a percentil score goes over 100, the main score is raised by 1 and
the 100 is discarded... Ability scores can be raised as high as 18/00 in
this manner, even if doing so violates limitations based on race or sex."

This means, to *me*, that Dex and Con can go up to 18/00, which is 19,
especially since "A Lancer with 15 dexterity might have 15/87 dexterity
upon attaining Armiger status." (previous paragraph)

You can certainly nitpick the single word "over", but I think it's pretty
clearly sicko in general.

>      However, a look at some of the class' restrictions (armour/weapon
>quality, enforced hospitality, berserk combat charges, etc.) do have some
>interesting ideas.

I dislike any character class that you have to purposefully hose.

>> Paladins were then given the "privilege" of being shoved in as a
>> subclass of Cavalier, where they got ALL the bonuses ON TOP of their
>> own, PLUS the ability to gain charisma at the same rate as the other
>> stats (2d10 % per level).
>
>     Yup. Cavaliers were a Class, and Paladins fit so neatly under it as a
>sub-class.  

Arghhhh.... ;)

I even played one once.  Scariest thing you ever saw on four legs (his
horse's).

>> Munchkin city.  Stay away, for your own sanity's sake.
>
>        Hmmm... it does need that special knack to make it behave properly. 
>On the other hand, it might be the only thing to survive the
>GM-who-thinks-he's-a-tacnuke's campaign.  Definitely for the advanced
>role-player only, though.

Or Munchkin...  (see "Real Men Don't Play Role-Playing Games")

-- 
Donald Tsang                    "Ho!  Haha!  Guard!  Turn!  Parry!  Dodge!
tsang@june.cs.washington.edu     Spin!  Ha!  Thrust!"
..!uw-beaver!june!tsang                       -- Robin Hood Daffy
From: alvalent@husc9.harvard.edu (Alvin Valentine)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Re: champs: immortal
Date: 17 Apr 92 16:20:12 GMT


I found Richard Pieri's comments most enlightening.

If you don't mind using an old champs rule by Steven Maurer in Dragon 
Magazine, you can buy Extra Lives for 4 pts. a piece.

They are 3d6 Luck rolls which automatically come up all 6s.  The GM thinks
of some convenient rationale as to why you didn't die, and you scratch off
one extra life and 4 hard earned XPs.

Buy a few of these to start (maybe 2) and one whenever you need it, and your
character will not die.  Although he may have excruciating hang overs from
being knocked out so hard.



*******************************************************************************
*   Lee Valentine		*  If darkness is merely the absence of light,*
*   alvalent@husc.harvard.edu   *   Then evil is merely the absence of good.  *
*                               *              Long Live Ravenloft!           *
*******************************************************************************