HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: MAK-NEWS_#227_(M.I.L.
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:12:21 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

lambri@ifi.unizh.ch (Dimitrios Lambrinos) writes:

>> ALL-MACEDONIAN AUSTRALIAN NATIONAL CONGRESS
>> Skopje. The first all-Macedonian Australian national congress
>> .....
>> Other issues to be discusses will include the activities of the
>				^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> Macedonian Orthodox Church, assistance to ethnic Macedonians in
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> the Pirin and Aegean regions of the Macedonian homeland, the
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^????????????????????^^^^^
>> Macedonian media and the informing of the Macedonian community
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>	DON'T YOU JUST LOVE IT?:

>	Macedonian honeland
>	Pirin and Aegean regions of the Macedonian homeland
>	Asistance to ethnic Macedonians
>	...............................


>	WHO TALKED ABOUT TERRITORIAL CLAIMS?


 I guess people like Andy Fear will "miss" the above....

>		Dimitrios.

 Panos Tamamidis
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: re: writing on Mountain 5-dactylos
Date: 27 Jan 1993 22:24:02 -0600
Organization: Delco Electronics Corporation
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

So I lied about follow-ups (what's new :-)). I actually posted a 
follow-up in Greek to see if it rings any emotions, but since 
everyone was too busy discussing it, here are my 2 cents:

The other case I remember of a nation having the need to place slogans
equivelant to 50 football fields on a mountain was Greece. Noone can
remember (the young ones) or forget (us old f*rts) the signs:

                          ELLAS ELLHNWN XRISTIANWN

(i.e. Greece for Christian Greeks or something to that effect). Many
were painted on bridges, many more created on soil retaining walls
typically found while driving on what passes for roads in Greece, 
out of elaborate stone patterns (!), etc etc etc, along with lots of
Greek flags, other slogans of the kind we're talking about. And, of
course, the omnipresent BIRD (not the one from Chicago), a Phoenix
rising from the flames (should have been ashes you bozos) and the 
sillouete of a soldier...

For those of you wondering what I'm talking about, the dates are
April 21, 1967 to November 17, 1973. I won't tell our friends 
from TRNC the details though, perhaps a bit of mental excercise will
do them good. 

So, in Jeopardy form...

	"Nationalistic Slogans painted all over Greece were the
         product of THIS Greek government from 1967 to 1973"

ta ta da, ta ta da, ta ta da da ta/ta ta ta ra ra... (fake Jeopardy Music)

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: scg@bashan.cs.wisc.edu ( Scg)
Subject:  RE : ANT1 / SCOLA : Too bad, you were born Greek
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 09:31:29 GMT

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Forwarded message follows:

From levi3361@oce.orst.edu  Fri Jan 22 15:33:26 1993
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 13:33:22 PST
From: levi3361@oce.orst.edu (Murry Levine)
Message-Id: <9301222133.AA01835@sid.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: soc-culture-greek-post
Subject: RE : ANT1 / SCOLA : Too bad, you were born Greek

O Dionisis (pnevmati@milhouse.cs.wisc.edu (Dionisios N. Pnevmatikatos)) grafei :

>>From levi3361@oce.orst.edu  Thu Jan 21 11:11:06 1993
>
>>Geia xara.
>>	To parov grafetai logw megalou spasimatos. Av diabazei kaveis apo
>>Ellada 0a mou ekave megaln xarn va parei eva tnlefwvo ton "ANT1" va tous
>>brisei:
( blah, blah, blah)
>>	Auta gia osous zouv me Eurwpaizouses yeudais0nseis prongmevns Elladas.

>Oxi oti perimena kai para polla apo to ANT1 (ektos apo tis teleytaies
>sapounoperes!) alla ayto pia...

>Dyo erwtiseis:

>1) ti wra exei tis ellinikes eidiseis to Scola?

   Stis 23:00 Central time (Chicago). Edw (D. aktn) tis blepoume stis 21:00.
   Diarkouve de misn wra.

>2) Poia einai i dieythinsi/tilefwno tou ANT1 stin Nea Yorkh na tous
>kse....... kai emeis ligoulaki? 

   To tnlefwvo eivai 1-800-252-ANT1. Dieu0uvsn dev 3erw.

>>	Episns gia ta "gerakia" pou autapatwvtai me oveirw3eis stratiwtikwv
>>0riambwv n estw epituxnmevns amuvas, se mia xwra pou, koiva, paizei to
>>pouli tns.

>[Nyn kai aei kai eis tous aiwnas twn ...]
>Nai, alla twra to paizei eurwpaika :-).

>>Auta ta oliga.
>>Vassilis Zervakis, Oregon State University.
>>-----------------------------------------------------
>>Av mporei kaveis as steilei to parov stnv lista "HELLAS"
-- 
>  -- Dionisis
>%
>% Dionisios N. Pnevmatikatos      Email: pnevmati@cs.wisc.edu
>% Computer Sciences Department    Phone: (1) 608/262 1721,(1) 608/255 0840
>% University of Wisconsin-Madison Fax  : (1) 608/262 9777
>%
  
  Vassilis ..........kai, kaln tuxn....




Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:12557 soc.culture.europe:11430 soc.history:10985
From: J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
Subject: Re: More on Macedonia (was Re: Greece reacts sharply to 
 remarks by
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:40:30 GMT
 <1993Jan23.101235.11130@informix.com> 
 <C1E6sF.K5x@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>  
 <1993Jan25.211401.12821@informix.com>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0b1@newshost.dartmouth.edu

I don't have a copy of the Treaty of San Stefano handy at the moment,
but will look it up when I get the chance.  However, nobody of Greek
extraction on the Net has seriously responded to the claims that Greece
is trying to blockade and starve the Macedonians into giving up that
name.

--Ted Schuerzinger
email: .zed@Dartmouth.EDU
"I should have known it would be bad vodka when all the label said was
'Russian Vodka'."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,alt.news.macedonia
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Subject: Re: On Macedonia (was Re: Greece reacts sharply to remarks by Danish foreign minister)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 02:34:35 GMT

J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger) writes:

>True -- the problem is that Greece is blockading Macedonia and trying
>to starve it into giving up the name Macedonia, and the EC is doing
>nothing because it doesn't want to alienate Greece.  I'm not saying
>that Greece has no right to use the name 'Macedonia', I'm saying that
>it doesn't have the *exclusive* right to do so.  Unfortunately, the
>Greek government seems to believe that it does have exclusive rights to
>the name 'Macedonia' (and so do most posters of Greek heritage).

 You have missed to answer my point regarding the use of the name Athens
 in several U.S. cities.  Why Greeks aren't objecting to it?
 
 Again, you prefer to see the problem with the wrong perspective.  If you
 want to blaim Greece, because of reasons that have nothing to do with the
 issue, you can stick with your perspective.

>--Ted Schuerzinger

 Panos Tamamidis
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Subject: Re: Linovambakoi (Re: Turkish Cypriots reject ENOSIS)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:12:16 GMT
Keywords: Ali Pasas, The King, Makarios, Chrysostomos, Vasiliu, Enosis, Palikaria, Akritas

terziogl@ee.rochester.edu (Esin Terzioglu) writes:

>2) When Ottomans conquered Cyprus, they enslaved women and put them in
>   their harems. Hey Panos, check it out man, you could be a descendent of
>   one of those. This "enslaving women" was done in mainland Greece as well.
>   So if there is anyone out there who claims that he/she is pure Greek,
>   he/she had better trace his/her family line back to fifteenth century.

 According to the above statement, some Turks should be checking if they
 are descentants of Greeks, not the other way you are suggesting.

 Alper, have you read the above?  

>regards,
>E.T.

 Panos Tamamidis
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: jtsilla@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu (James Tsillas)
Subject: Re: Rob West + Steve Anderson
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:23:38 GMT

In article <C1IKpv.8sD@gabriel.keele.ac.uk> cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear) writes:

   > 
   > But of course Greece is not the issue here. Perhaps you missed the fact
   > the the FYRM consitution still referes to Macedonians in neighboring
   > countries. There are no "macedonians" in neighboring countries, yet they
   > persist on that.

   Perhaps they are deluded by the fact that in Greece some Macedonians
   have recently been put on trial...

   Andy

Andy, this is a strange statement to me. Greece puts alot of people on
trial every day if they are accused of crimes. Some of them are
Macedonian Greeks. Do you mean Greece has put Macedonians from the FYRM
on trial or Greek Macedonians (or Bulgarian Macedonians or Albanian
Macedonians). What were the charges?

For example, I happen to be Greek, but I was born and grew up in
Macedonia. If I commit a crime in Greece (and get caught) do I become
propaganda for some fellows in Skopje?

cheers,
-Jim.
--
	***  James Tsillas  jtsilla@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu   ***
	***      Work: (508)898-2800, Home: (617)641-0513        ***
	***        "He is after me. Jim is after him."           ***
	***            - Hop on Pop, Dr. Seuss                   ***
From: msg7038@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michalis  Syrimis)
Subject: Re: Linovambakoi (Re: Turkish Cypriots reject ENOSIS)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:56:59 GMT
Keywords: Ali Pasas, The King, Makarios, Chrysostomos, Vasiliu, Enosis, Palikaria, Akritas

bse@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Besime Erin) writes:

>In article <C12Kqz.4C9@news.cso.uiuc.edu> msg7038@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michalis  Syrimis) writes:
>>Regarding the thesis that some Turkish Cypriots are of Greek origin, 
>>linobambakoi, an undisputable fact supporting it is that many Tyrkish 
>>villages had names of Saints.  The one that comes to my mind now is
>>Ayios Nikolas (Saint Nicholas) in the Paphos District, close to Platres
>>and Arsos. 
>>
>>Anybody else knows any other ones? I can look in a map that I have
>>and give you some more.
>>
>>-- 
>>Michalis Syrimis
>>University of Illinois
>>Urbana-Champaign
>>

>GET OFF of it Symiris !!!
Besime control yourself, you are becoming a public scene.
Watch your typing too.  

>Turkish Cypriots ARE TURKISH Cypriots.

Exactly.  In your previous article you presented your arguments, which
were perfectly logical, and with which I agree completely.  It's how one 
feels that determines his ethnicity / nationality and not his genetic code.
Read also the posting by Lambros Skartsis about the more general subject, his
views are not very different than ours.

However, the fact remains that some of the Turkish Cypriots indeed were 
Greek Cypriots who converted to islam during the years of the Ottoman rule.  
Historical Truth is Historical Truth.
That's the whole point I was trying to make, but your went several steps 
ahead and saw different intentions and implications.

Here's a suggestion for you. Maybe if you try to post more often in this
network and with a different attitude from what you are doing now (note you
did say that you would be only posting to annoy people, didn't you?),
perhaps you will be able to stay calm and write things that make sense.  


>You see why we will never want THE TURKISH ARMY TO LEAVE.
Nop.

>It's because what you are doing right now is what the Greek Cypriots
>want to repeat to us OVER AND OVER AGAIN so that their last obstruction
>to Cyprus turning into a GREEK ISLAND is eliminated.

Sorry, if I heard your feelings, but please explain what I did which was
wrong, so that I'll try to avoid it in the future. Maybe don't mention
historical facts that cause tension between us for example.  That is not 
necessarily a bad idea provided there would be sincere willingness to 
discuss about the real issues.


>BUT IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

>TURKISH CYPRIOTS ARE OF TURKISH DECENT AND THEY WILL BE THE REPRESENTATIVES
>OF THE TURKISH RACE IN CYPRUS FOREVER. SWALLOW IT !!!!!

GULP.....MMM, delicious....

>Besime

Looking forward to hearing from you again.
-- 
Michalis Syrimis
University of Illinois
Urbana-Champaign

Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: scg@bashan.cs.wisc.edu ( Scg)
Subject:  SCG-Ti 0a ginei telika
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 09:32:33 GMT

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Forwarded message follows:

From gavriel@socrates.umd.edu  Tue Jan 26 21:19:05 1993
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From: Nick Gavrielatos <gavriel@socrates.umd.edu>
Subject: SCG-Ti 0a ginei telika
To: pnevmati, pnevmati@milhouse.wisc.edu
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 22:19:16 EST
Cc: soc-culture-greek-post
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Ti 0a ginei telika me auto to rimadi to filter? 0a doulepsei
pote? Exoun parei fora orismena paparia kai grafoune ena
swro enantion mas, kai den mporw na steilw mail sto scg.

Epanalambanw, den endiaferomai na kanw post apo to RN, 
0elw na mporw na stelnw apo to ELM legontas 
elm soc-culture-greek-post@cs.wisc.edu 

Tipota kainourgio?

Nikos Gavrielatos
gavriel@socrates.umd.edu


Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: lambri@ifi.unizh.ch (Dimitrios Lambrinos)
Subject: Re: MAK-NEWS_#227_(M.
Organization: University of Zurich, Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 11:53:51 GMT


In article <1993Jan28.031822.14957@rose.com>, mike.kozovski@rose.com (mike kozovski) writes:
>    There are no territorial claims and we are no threat to Greece or
>    Bulgaria. The real problem is that Greece is afraid that the
>    Aegean Macedonians might want to join the Republic of Macedonian.
>    Greece can easily correct the problem by giving the Aegean
>    Macedonians basic human rights, something they should have done 80
>    years ago.
> 

	These Aegean Macedonians that you talk about feel themselves
	100% greek and they are very well, thank you!
	
	An advise: Look first after your own country, I think there
	are a lot of problems to be solved there.

>    M.K.
> ---
>    RoseMail 2.00 : RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285


Dimitrios.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:12530 alt.news.macedonia:227
From: mpoly@panix.com (Michale Polymenakos)
Subject: Re: Ellemann-Jensen on Macedonia
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 00:55:56 GMT

In <C85PERWE.93Jan24135814@ide7.IDA.LiU.SE> c85perwe@IDA.LiU.SE (Per Westling) writes:

>Again I point out that if FYRM is a future threat to Greece it will be
>so regardless of what name they adhere to, and I find it curious that
>there are Greeks (even in this group) that has said they will
>recognize FYRM just if it changes it name!

 Pseudomacedonia is a threat to Greece only if its government pursue their
nationalistic propaganda which is based on a falcification of history. By
using the name "Macedonia" the Skopjie government is attempting to create
an impression to the international public that it is the nation
representing the Macedonian people. More importantly, it is attempting to
create that impression to its own people.

Michael
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:12449 soc.culture.europe:11362 alt.news.macedonia:149
From: cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,alt.news.macedonia
Subject: Re: Ellemann-Jensen on Macedonia
Date: 27 Jan 93 09:33:32 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England

From article <Jan26.204213.24625@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, by irakliot@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Leo J. Irakliotis):
> 
> Since you appeared previously so interested in an honourable way of arguing,
> I have a map of FYRM showing northern Greece as a part of their land. The
> map was publihed by a newspaper. Do you have any similar evidence regarding
> Greece?               ^^^^^^^^^^

My point exactly, this is not an official publicatiuon at all and as
such it can't be taken as evidence of the official policy of the
Macedonian government. What would you say if I cited Stochos as evidence
of Greek government policy?


  
> The persons under trial in Greece are not members of any minority. 
> And there are no ethnic minorities in Greece, according to US Dept of State
> and other respectable sources of information.

That's odd I thought their report mentioned a Slavic speaking minority
which is mistreated, to be fair I think it also mentions mistreatment of
the Albanian minority in the Republic of Macedonia.  As for those on
trial in Greece the five from OAS now on trial I think it started
yesterday (to Greece's shame) are, I think, Greeks.  The other two are
Macedonian slavs who live in Greece.  I'm interested in this bland
assumption you have about a racially pure Greece.  Does that mean there
are no Vlachs or Turks in Greece either?


> Should you wish to quote
> MRG as a reliable source of information please do. You are as much reliable
> as they are.

Thanks for the compliment.

Andy
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:12368 soc.culture.soviet:12279 soc.culture.turkish:14621 soc.culture.usa:9963 soc.culture.yugoslavia:10591
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: re: the chairman of EC says...
Date: 21 Jan 1993 09:43:32 -0600
Organization: Delco Electronics Corporation
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

hilmi-er@teppo.enet.dec.com writes:

	Ulle Elleman Jensen , Foreign Minister
	of Denmark, the chairman of EC said yesterday, 20/01/93:

	   " I'm shamed of EC because it's bounded
	     from Greece to not recognize Macedonia, EC must
	     recognize Macedonia at once..."

	The black sheep of EC, Greece, continues it's
	disruption in EC and the government of Greece
	has make the Macedonian issue to a sleeping-tablet
	for the Greek people to hide Greece's lousy economy.

No surprise there; of course the chairman of EC changes every few
months anyway, so HIS opinion is not necessarily the opinion of the
EC... But it is really interesting to observe the list of news
groups in which it is posted:

soc.culture.greek 		(ok, makes sense)
soc.culture.netherlands		(????????) Denmark != Netherlands :-)
soc.culture.turkish		(kinda mandatory these days)
soc.culture.usa			(????????) USA is not in EC :-)
soc.culture.soviet		(????????) Ditto.

Note the absence of groups like soc.culture.bulgaria,
soc.culture.europe, soc.culture.yugoslavia, soc.culture.bosnia-herz?,
soc.culture.croatia, etc etc etc.

So, Hilmi Hanoum, next time make sure you post to people who MIGHT
care... Netherlands is NOT Denmark (oh, I forgot, they're also
pro-'Macedonian', aaaaahh, thaaaat's why...) ; US is not in the EC,
Soviets are NOT in the EC, and sure as hell Mother Turkiye is not in
the EC. (as in 'when hell freezes over')

By the way, I am pro-Danish. They make the best ^%#$%^ furniture
I've ever seen, and have a houseful of it to prove it. Their cheese
sucks though. 

Alternatively, get a life. 

Spiros

-- 
(.sig goes here)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
From: hyde@cs.dal.ca (Bill Hyde)
Subject: Re: Brittany (was Re: Errors (?) in the greek approach in the Macedonian issue.
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:23:01 GMT

In article <1k8r9lINN1q5@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>, velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde) writes:

|> And in French, Brittany=Bretagne and Britain=Grande Bretagne. I think the
|> similar names date back to the Roman Empire, when both areas were peopled
|> with Celtic peoples. Compare the similarity of Galicia (Northwest Spain),
|> Gaul (the Roman name for France), and Wales (where W=G, as in 
|> William=Guillaume). In all three cases, the areas were peopled with Celts
|> under the Roman Empire (still are to some extent: there are many people
|> with blue eyes in Galicia, Spain). Just a guess.


	During and after the fall of the western empire, celts from
	southwest Britain immigrated to/invaded Brittany.  I believe
	that as a consequence of this, the area was renamed "Little
	Britain", or brittany.  I also recall reading that the
	Cornish and Breton versions of Gaelic are very closely
	related, more closely, for example, than Cornish and
	Welsh.


						Bill Hyde
Department of Oceanography
Dalhousie University,
Halifax, Nova Scotia
hyde@Ice.ATM.Dal.Ca or hyde@dalac

Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,alt.news.macedonia
From: mpoly@panix.com (Michael Polymenakos)
Subject: Re: writings on mount 5-dactylos
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 01:30:07 GMT

Besime Erin writes:

> One of them is "Ne mutlu Turkum diyene!" which means:
> "How happy I am to be a Turk!" so its meaning is just that.

So mutlu=happy? And what does Hasan stand for? Hooker?

M. 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:12613 soc.culture.europe:11462 soc.history:11012
From: velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
Subject: Re: Errors (?) in the greek approach in the Macedonian issue.
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:33:00 GMT
Organization: Homewood Academic Computing, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu

In article <1993Jan27.203847.24750@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> pef@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Panayotis Fouliras; TA PhD) writes:
>
>[1] The longest war in history is known as the 100 years war,
>between England (today's Britain) and France over Britany. Now
>a name implied a lot for both...

The 100 Years War was fought by England (only part of today's Britain)
and France over France; Brittany had nothing to do with it. The king
Edward III of England, grandson of Philippe IV of France, disputed the
French throne to Philippe VI nephew of Philippe IV.  Brittany was independent
of both and remained so until around 1500.


-- 

	Francois Velde
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek