HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Who made the NBA prosper? (Re: All North Carolina team)
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:37:31 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

In article <1992Aug21.144110.12531@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor) writes:
>OK, Russ, how much have you noticed Wayne Gretzky? You know, the one
>with some odd commercials like Avis (or was it Hertz) and Diet Coke(?).


For one thing, hockey has alot less cable exposure than the NBA does.
People in my area are always writing in the paper how they can't see
any hockey games no matter what cable service they get, NBA games
are on every night and have been for several years.
>MJ is no Gretzky in terms of dominance in the sport. No matter 
>what you look at: stats, rings, honors, etc. Gretzky won ***NINE***

Gretzky is also very well known, I don't watch hockey but I know who
Gretzky is, there's a huge billboard of him on the way to Candlestick
park(or there was last time I went). 
>David Stern did a great job making the NBA, so did Magic/Bird. Had
>the NBA televised its finals at 11:30 PM tape delayed, like the
>1980 finals, the NBA won't be that much better than the NHL. Had 
>the NBA had an incompetent commissioner like John Ziegler,
>MJ would have been like Mario Lemieux.


Which was my point, it was Stern's marketing and cable tv that caused
the NBA boom, not the mere presence of Magic and Bird, and I think
Stern would have taken advantage of cable whether Bird and Magic existed
or not. They helped , without question, but they didn't make the NBA
and allow Mike to become what he is.
>Does you friend in Aussie report people wearing Wayne's jersey?
>Why not? he is God in Canada.

Is cable in Australia televising hockey? If not, that's why. La Kings
stuff is very popular around here, LA gangs and rappers are even wearing
the stuff.


If Bird and Magic made the NBA(as the original post suggested), then
how come so many people were complaining that the game of the week was
always LA/Boston or one of them against the Knicks, prior to the advent
of the NBA on cable? If people wanted to see them so much, they wouldn't
have complained.




Russ Smith
*******************************************************************************
"I have a limo, I ride in the back. I lock the doors in case I'm attacked".
I live in hotels, tear out the wall. I have accountants pay for it all".

                                   -"Life's Been Good" - Joe Walsh
********************************************************************************
From: tgross@bingo.prime.com (/tom)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Retraction, regarding Karl Malone
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:12:20 GMT
Reply-To: tgross@bingo.prime.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: Computervision

In article <1992Aug19.125941.17605@NeoSoft.com>, claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird) writes:
> A few weeks ago, I tossed off an incidental remark about
> how the two Jazz Olympians are "marginal Hall-of-Famers".
> Various people called me to task.  On further reflection,
> I've decided it *was* a mistake:  I can't think of a
> power forward appreciably better than Karl Malone (McHale?
> not Debusschere (sp?).  Lucas?  Pettit?  One suspects that
> Bird, Erving, McGinnis, McAdoo, and E. Johnson *could* have
> been better, but they played other roles).  Go ahead,
> r.s.b.p netters: we've hashed over who were the best centers,
> scorers, Ainge-biters, and so on.  Who was the best big
> forward?
> -- 
>

	Answer: DAVE COWENS.

	next question please.  I prefer more esoteric topics,
	like "who was the best point guard drafted in the second
	round who played for more than two teams in his career?"
	or "who was the best brother/sister basketball pair of
	all time?" stuff like that.

	I hate vi.

/tom

A
 
> Cameron Laird
> claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)	+1 713 267 7966
> claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)  	+1 713 996 8546
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: prb@chinet.chi.il.us (Paul Botts)
Subject: Re: Toni Kukoc
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:20:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug15.171537.29144@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> cs4cb3@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Peter Granic) writes:
>In article <5475@ucsbcsl.ucsb.edu> wp01jst1@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (John Tomas) writes:
>>
>>Nobody has commented about the second Croatia game where I believe that
>>Kukoc's line read something like 16 points, (3-5 3pts), 9 assists, 5
>>bounds and a couple of turnovers.  That, friends, is an excellent game
>>against such opposition.  Give him the time, and he will get better.
>>
>
>
>I have been waiting myself for some comments.  In fact I was expecting the
>performance to be downplayed by people on the net in the US.  He scored
>12 of the 16 from 3 pt. distance (he was fouled on a three and hit all 3
>three frows).  
>
>In any case, I firmly believe that two games against the Dream Team, can
>really not be a fair way to judge how a player will do in the NBA.  
>Hopefully, he will make it to the league in 93-94 and then we will all
>find out.
>
>Peter Granic
>

I saw part of that game, and I think I can see why Jerry Krause and some
other NBA scouts get so excited about Kucoc. He made some damned
impressive passes in traffic, and seems to have remarkable body control
for someone 6'10". He's got very long arms and quick feet, too. He's way
too skinny to ever venture into an NBA lane, but that can be changed;
plus he's only 23 years old. He looked like just as good a player as
Pippen was at 23 (you could make most of the above comments about Pippen
about 4 years ago, after all).
I think the Bulls management has gone overboard with this, but that
doesn't mean signing Kukoc wouldn't be a good idea. He could turn out to
be another Danny Ferry, but on the other hand he could turn out to be
the franchise-type player they think he could be, and in the NBA, that
potential is worth a lot of effort to find and corral.
From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Australias would heve beaten dream team
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:36:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: uvmark.1992Aug19.133634.17515
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <1992Aug18.215633.3122@cs.ucla.edu> lange@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Trent Lange) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.154337.9900@uvmark.uucp> davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug18.183329.1@wombat.newcastle.edu.au> c9111381@wombat.newcastle.edu.au (ROBERT BUCK) writes:
>>>
>>>I think the aust would have beaten the U.S. all over the court had they 
>>>played.
>>
>>Here's a dollar, go buy a clue..
>
>Funny, Dave -- none of us knew you had a dollar to spare...
>

Yeah, with all the spare dollars people have given you, I figured I could
borrow one :-) :-)
-- 
David T. Meeks                    ||" We are jigsaw pieces, aligned on the 
VMark Software, Inc.              ||  perimeter edge, 
uvmark!davem@merk.com             ||  interlocked through a missing piece"
davem%uvmark@merk.com             ||" ...This world is totally Fugazi"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: stu1d46@bnr.ca (Reg Domaratzki)
Subject: Re: Meeks == Lor
Keywords: I'ts over
Reply-To: stu1d46@bnr.ca (Reg Domaratzki)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 19:28:05 GMT

First things first, I am the culprit that everybody seems to think is such an
idiot.  Allow me to explain my actions:

   Simply flaming Ed and Dave wouldn't have done anything.  We needed some
   scandal (that's where I come in) to catch the attention of the people on
   the net to bring to life the pointlessness of Ed and Dave's arguments.
   This has been done.  Several people have posted saying how sick and tired
   they are of this dumb argument.  Awareness has been raised on the net.
   Mission accomplished.

Now, to respond to some shots that were taken directly at me.

1) I wanted people to know that the same person was trying to impersonate
   Ed and Dave.  This would generate controversy, exactly what I wanted.  If
   I'd wanted to to make it untraceable, I would have.

2) I'm not a high school student.  I'm a University of Waterloo (in Ontario,
   Canada) Co-op student working at BNR, and I'll be going into 3rd year
   Computer Science in the fall.  Note that any flames regarding the quality
   of education of UW or anything like that will simply show how immature
   you really are. 

3) BNR has nothing to do with my posts or my opinions, so stop involving
   an innocent party.

As an aside, I propose we start a pool and bet on the following events:
  i) When the argument will end.
  ii) When the argument will reach it's 500th post.
  iii) When AT&T will cut off net access to Dave because of an extraordinary
       number of postings during working hours.
  :) :)

Later,

Reg Domaratzki          University of Waterloo Co-op Student working at BNR
    "Sincerity is the key to success.  Once you can fake that you've got
                              it made."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: jds@sequent.com (Jerry Simmering)
Subject: Re: Shoe teams
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 17:25:38 GMT

In article <Bt8nMr.936@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J ) writes:
>
>	I was wondering -- just what shoe company could launch their own
>	version of a "Dream Team" using the players that endorse their
>	shoes?  We all know about Nike (could have Jordan, Pippen, 
>	Robinson, Mullin, Stockton, Barkley, etc) -- but what about:
>
>       ETC...............................


   Let us not forget:


   Avia  -   Clyde Drexler
-- 
Jerry Simmering                 | GO Portland Trailblazers! 1992 W.C. Champs
Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.  | GO Atlanta Falcons! 
Beaverton, Oregon.              | GO Georgia Bulldawgs!
                                | GO Atlanta Braves! 1991 NL Champs!    
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205)
Subject: Re: Toni Kukoc
Organization: Bell Northern Research Inc.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 13:25:41 GMT

In article <Bt549J.9Bz@chinet.chi.il.us> prb@chinet.chi.il.us (Paul Botts) writes:
>>In article <5475@ucsbcsl.ucsb.edu> wp01jst1@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (John Tomas) writes:
>>>
>>>Nobody has commented about the second Croatia game where I believe that
>>>Kukoc's line read something like 16 points, (3-5 3pts), 9 assists, 5
>>>bounds and a couple of turnovers.  That, friends, is an excellent game
>>>against such opposition.  Give him the time, and he will get better.
>
>I think the Bulls management has gone overboard with this, but that
>doesn't mean signing Kukoc wouldn't be a good idea. He could turn out to
>be another Danny Ferry, but on the other hand he could turn out to be
>the franchise-type player they think he could be, and in the NBA, that
>potential is worth a lot of effort to find and corral.

Oh no, more comparisons of Toni Kukoc and Danny Ferry?  I don't think so.  

Could you imagine how stupid Ferry would have looked on the floor against
the DT?  It would have been hysterical!!!!!

-- 
Andrew W. Markham (markham@bnr.ca)
Bell Northern Research, Inc.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: tswilliams@gallua.gallaudet.edu (Sly Fox)
Subject: Dream Team vs Church team
Organization: Gallaudet University
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 13:10:43 GMT

Oh yes, I do believe some of dude saying Angola and Aussie should had beat
the Dream Team. 

It did happened before the Olympics started, Our church league was invited
to play against Dream Team. Our church player have 6'1" 154 lb center.
He is the tallest and strongest player on our team. We were leading at the
half-time 41-37. After the half started, Barkley started to spit and shove
our leader. We feel lousy and too wet from Barkely's spit. SO the Dream Team
caught up with Jordan and Magic's bribes to the refree. (Hey , church league
refree earn only 12 bucks a game)So the refree decide to foul our best player
with 4 minutes left on the clock.
There were couple of ball driving, goal tending from Robinson and Ewing,
Magic and Jordan take few step too much, Bird and Mullins giving three pointer
in our old church which measure only 15'8" from the three point land. Karl
Malone and Barkley scratches and snarl and bump with no fouls. 

So we lost to the Dream Team by 91 to 88.

It aint fair, who should we complain and protest a file to ???
We would have beaten them.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: rda455w@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (H. Nguyen)
Subject: Re: LARRY BIRD RETIRES
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 06:41:31 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.162416.19838@osf.org> ron@osf.org (Ron Birnbaum) writes:
>-------------
>
>Larry Bird has officially announced his retirement from the NBA. He will
>never make a comback - including the next NBA All-Star game! 
>
>-Ron

So when does he get inlisted into the hall of fame??
 
O.
From: nhmas@gauss.med.harvard.edu (Mark Shneyder 432-4219)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: snore
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:35:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: hsdndev.1741
Organization: HMS

In article <1992Aug19.124324.1@gallua.gallaudet.edu> tswilliams@gallua.gallaudet.edu (Sly Fox) writes:
>Ed Lor and Dave Meek.
>
>Please flame on E Mail.
>
>It is getting tiring and boring.
>
>I am falling asleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
>ZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Hey Sly,

It's the off-season. Let these guys abuse each other publicly.
If we were in the middle of the season or the playoffs when the
heavy traffic in this group is a 24hour thing,these guys would be run out of
this group wearing asbestos suits because Net-Gods wouldn't never let them
carry on their BS the way have for the last 2 months.

-Mark
From: lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Meeks == Lor
Keywords: I'ts over
Date: 21 Aug 92 03:23:38 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Aug20.142308.67448@uvmark.uucp> davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks) writes:
>>Lighten up, Meek. What would you do had that guy not followed your suggestion
>>of stoppage? Are you going to threaten him that you would notify his 
>>postmaster again? 
>
>No, I figured you would argue with him that the post was incorrect due to
>his misstating something and continue the argument for a few monthes..
Oh, so your suggestion of stoppage means nothing. It doesn't even come
with a threat. Who are you going to scare?

-- 
                                          Edward Lor
                                          lor@cbnewsk.att.com
From: vreddy@das.harvard.edu (Venkatesh Reddy)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: All North Carolina team
Date: 21 Aug 92 14:48:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1992Aug21.144826.5483
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University

In article <23929@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Williams) writes:
|> In rec.sport.basketball.pro, martyp@engin.umich.edu (Martin Pochmara) writes:
|>  >
|>  >And above that, how many players are currently in the pros from the
|>  >state of North Carolina?
|>  >I would bet less than ten......
|>  >
|>  >Just last week, I posted a list from Michigan that had over twenty
|>  >CURRENT NBA players from the state. I believe that's more than
|>  >almost all the states....maybe New York, California might have
|>  >more....It's definately more than North Carolina....
|>  >
|>  >Don't ever start bad-talking Indiana or Michigan basketball. They
|>  >brought two players to the game who made the NBA what it is today.
|>  >Magic and Bird.....now the current GOD is from NC....don't forget
|>  >who put him there.......
|> 
|> Hmmmm.....   It is obvious that one North Carolinian GOD outweighs twenty 
|> Michigan NBA players anytime.  :-)
|> 
|> 
|> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
|>  Steve Williams                           swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil
|> ---------------------------------------------------------------------

In the immortal words of Red Auerbach (I think it was Red) :

"The NBA will see another Michael Jordan long before it sees another Larry Bird."
or Magic Johnson for that matter....

-- Venk --
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU (Terry Wong)
Subject: Re: Blazer News
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 22:12:50 GMT

In article <4209@3cpu.rain.com>, edrury@3cpu.rain.com (Ed Drury) writes:

|> 
|>  August began with the Blazers signing Mario Eli of the Golden State
|> Warriors to an offer sheet. The exact details of the offer were, as
|> they are want to say, "undisclosed". It is said to be a 3 year deal
|> and one might make a few assumptions based on the Blazers salary cap
|> situation. They have two salary slots with which to work. One worth
|> approximately $500,000 and the other $600,000. Based on the higher
|> figure and allowing for a 30% increase each year, the offer is worth
|> somewhere around 1.4 million for three years.
|> 

FYI, his name is spelled Elie, not Eli.

The San Francisco Chronicle earlier reported that the deal was for
over $600,000 for the first two years of the contract guaranteed.
The last year was said to contain many incentives based on playing time
and other considerations.  If Elie met those objectives, the contract
was reportedly worth nearly $1 million.  Your arithmetic is a little bit
off here.  Even if Elie made $600,000 per annum with no pay increase,
that would add up to 1.8 million for three years.  If a 30% increase was
in effect, the total would $2.4 million over three years.

|> 
|>  Mike Parker asked Mario about last year's NBA finals. Specifically, if
|> he thought Portland even had a chance to win it going in or if Michael
|> Jordan and the Bulls just were not going to be beaten.
|> 
|> Eli > "I think Portland had a great chance of winning. But as you know the
|> Western Conference is so tough and I think Chicago had a lot easier road
|> than Portland did. Portland had LA, an emotional team - no Magic. They
|> took them to four games and Phoenix is a great team. And Utah played them
|> real well. They had a great season. So I think Portland had the harder road
|> than Chicago but in the series they didn't shoot real well. A couple of
|> bad decisions and I guess there was a lot of pressure on Portland because
|> it was their second trip there and Chicago had already won it. So I think
|> Chicago had a lot of confidence. With Michael Jordan having that first
|> half he had with 35 points... "
|> 

I see that Elie is quite the diplomat.  He should easily endear himself
with Portland fans with both his on and off court attitude.  While I
concur that the overall talent level in the West is higher, I think he
is being charitable with Portland when he says they had the more difficult
road to the final.  He conveniently forgets the brutal 7 game series
that Chicago had with N.Y. and the very tough 6 game series with Cleveland.
Pippen was banged up during both these series.  I don't think Portland
endured any tougher physical or mental challenge before the final than
the Bulls-Knicks series.

					Terry Wong
					terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Australias would heve beaten dream tea
From: roberts@dme.nt.gov.au (baz 95442)
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:20:02 +0900
Reply-To: roberts@dme.nt.gov.au
Distribution: world
Organization: Northern Territory Department of Mines & Energy

After reading the post that started all this I am sure it was a joke. But I am 
not sure that all the follow ups are. Surely you don't think Aussies really believe
this. 
The dream team are a great basketball team(for what basketball is worth) but if there
supporters believe this then they are just plain DUMB


Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: jdm42241@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (John D. Mraz)
Subject: Detlef talks trade
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 17:35:38 GMT

It was reported 2 days ago in the Chicago Tribune that Detlef Schrempf
of the Indiana Pcaers is demanding that his contract be restructured or
else be traded.  He currently is in the fourth year of a 10-year guaranteed
contract, paying him $1.2 million this year. Rik Smits, Reggie Miller and
Chuck Person are paid more than he. Detlef averaged 17 points and 9 rebounds
per game last year.  GM Donnie Walsh says the team has no intentions of
trading him, and won't restructure the contract as the team is at its 
salary cap limit.
    As a Pacers fan, I think Detlef is justified in  his complaints, but
    needs to realize the salary cap limitations. If Indiana wanted to trade
    him, they could get an awful lot for him. I'm still upset the Pacers
    haven't made any moves to help the team.

    I also read today that the Atlanta Hawks have signed Snoopy Graham and
    Alexander Volkov is going to play in Italy.
				Doug Mraz

-- 
"How bad can the economy be if Michael Dukakis has a job?"-Rush Limbaugh
DA BULLS! GO BLACKHAWKS! WHITE SOX WIN, YES!
From: gary@ccs.northeastern.edu (Gary Duhaney)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: MYTH 2 Re: Debunking the standard myth was Re: Couple of thoughts..
Date: 16 Aug 92 20:02:06 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU

In article <55692@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith) writes:
>First, I agree, blacks dominate in hoops because they play the game more,
>and value the game more(as a chance out of being poor).
			^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
		Racist myth two.

It's funny how I went through a middle school knowing over 500 kids
and not one of these kids though that basketball was their way out
of poverty.  This is myth two as to why blacks don't suceed in
America.  The reason why they don't succeed isn't because we have
screwed them over and made it impossible for them to succeed, it's
because they choose to use basketball/sports as  way out of being
poor.  The media and others have taken what a few guys (WITH TALENT)
said and applied it to everyone black.  Note that I said guys WITH
TALENT.
From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Meeks == Lor
Keywords: I'ts over
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:18:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: uvmark.1992Aug20.141854.67524
Distribution: usa
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <1992Aug19.192805.12730@bmerh85.bnr.ca> stu1d46@bnr.ca (Reg Domaratzki) writes:
>
>As an aside, I propose we start a pool and bet on the following events:
>  i) When the argument will end.
>  ii) When the argument will reach it's 500th post.
>  iii) When AT&T will cut off net access to Dave because of an extraordinary
>       number of postings during working hours.
>  :) :)

Well, it has been done before... Someone started a pool to see when our
infamous Stockton vs Isiah argument would end.  Mercifully, I stopped that one
and the Malone vs Isiah one as well.  I haven't been as smart this time:-)

As for (iii), I don't work for, don't want to work for, and hopefully never 
will have to work for AT&T...  
>
>Later,
>
>Reg Domaratzki          University of Waterloo Co-op Student working at BNR
>    "Sincerity is the key to success.  Once you can fake that you've got
>                              it made."


-- 
David T. Meeks                    ||" We are jigsaw pieces, aligned on the 
VMark Software, Inc.              ||  perimeter edge, 
uvmark!davem@merk.com             ||  interlocked through a missing piece"
davem%uvmark@merk.com             ||" ...This world is totally Fugazi"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro