HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thood@corvus.matrox.com (Thomas Hood)
Newsgroups: can.politics,can.followup
Subject: Re: Bill 178
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:31:56 GMT
Organization: Matrox Ltd.

baby@info.polymtl.ca (Philippe Grant) writes:

>You are quite right.  The Supreme Court of Canada has deemed the law
>unconstitutionnal, but our constituion allows a province to invoque the
>infamous "notwithstanding clause" which allows a province to disregard a
>Supreme Court decision for 5 years (I'm not sure if it's 4 or 5 years).  I
>think it is very dangerous for provinces to have such power since it could
>allow an entry port for a dictatoship.

It is a big mistake to think that a dictatorship can be stopped
by a piece of paper.  The world's worst dictatorships have had the
most liberal constitutions, and the world's most stable democracy
(Great Britain) does not have anything resembling a Charter of Rights.

--
Thomas Hood                                                    thood@matrox.com
Newsgroups: can.politics,can.followup
From: marc@meadow.uucp (Marc Riehm)
Subject: Re: Bill 178
Reply-To: marc@meadow.UUCP (Marc Riehm)
Organization: Amdahl Canada Ltd., Software Development Center
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 15:50:27 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.143156.16575@pandora.matrox.com> thood@corvus.matrox.com (Thomas Hood) writes:
>
>It is a big mistake to think that a dictatorship can be stopped
>by a piece of paper.  The world's worst dictatorships have had the
>most liberal constitutions, and the world's most stable democracy
>(Great Britain) does not have anything resembling a Charter of Rights.
>
>--
>Thomas Hood                                                    thood@matrox.com

What makes you say that Great Britain is the "most stable democracy"?  What
criterion do you use to make that judgement?  Actually, from what I've heard
about it, Iceland is probably more stable (longer tradition).  And Great
Britain could use a dose of formal rights -- it is easy for the government to
trample freedom of the press, there (and it happens occasionally, too!)
-- 
Marc Riehm      Amdahl Canada Ltd., Software Development Center
                2000 Argentia Road, Plaza 2, Suite 300
                Mississauga, Ont.   L5N 1V8
marc@meadow.UUCP
From: beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: L'histoire du Quebec (was Re: Biliguism)
Date: 25 Jul 92 15:07:14 GMT
Organization: Institut de recherche d'Hydro-Quebec, Varennes, Canada

In article <24JUL92.10937322.0066@VM1.MCGILL.CA> CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94) writes:
>In article <BrvHoq.J71@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul23.133423.14018@spxtech.qc.ca> steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter) writes:
>>>  No! - You are denying the English part of Quebec's hostory.
>>
>>Will you understand that, _YOU_ are not part of Quebec history.
>>Before 1976, _YOU_ were a foreigner.
>>
>Quand est-ce que l'histoire du Quebec a pris fin?  En 1760?
>
>Tom Box
>CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA

Je parlais de Steve.  Comme immigrant recent (il est arrive apres 1980),
il pretend avoir plus de droits par rapport a une loi passee environ
5 ans avant son arrivee.  

En ce qui concerne l'immigration des francophones, l'histoire a ete
pratiquement suspendue durant pres de 100 ans, de 1763 a 1850 environ.

-- 
  \_\    Denis Beauregard  *  internet:beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
 /   \   Genealogiste officiel : Beauregard/Jarret/Jarest/Vincent
J   __>  Barthelemy Jarret (1471) -> Andre Jarret, sieur de Beauregard (1665)
\_.-===   -> Denis Beauregard (1992)                  Opinions ? Et pis non !
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: skenny@pico.engr.mun.ca (Shawn Kenny)
Subject: Re: God Save your Queen
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 22:42:46 GMT

beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) writes:

>In article <1992Jul28.090039.21380@spxtech.qc.ca> steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter) writes:
>>From article <Bs2uL0.AsI@ireq.hydro.qc.ca>, by beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
>> Denis Beauregard writes:-
>>
>>> And the Acadia was a british land since 1713.  They did not repeat in 1763
>>> for an economical reason : it was too much trouble to handle those
>>> NEUTRAL FRENCHes.  ANd they could not kill everybody directly.  Other
>>> colonies would had rebel.
>>> 
>>> And someone shown me some papers about the 1755 deportation, about the
>>> harm they had.  WOrking like slaves in New England.
>>> 
>>> I would say that in 1763, they were afraid of some effects on their
>>> American colony.
>>> 
>>> But don't talk about respect please.
>>> 
>>
>>  Maybe I should start whining about the Norman Conquest and the Battle
>>  of Hastings. :-)
>>
>>  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||

>Remove your sunglasses, Steve.  
>My posting was a response to the hypothetical fairness of the English during
>conquest.  Original posting was made so that we think we should be
>grateful to be allowed to speak French.  Actually, there was no more
>laws to forbid local languages in Ireland and Scotland and in those
>countries (Et vive l'Ecosse libre) I wouldn't be far from truth if I'm
>not true, in saying that English is now the majority language.

Not sure if I am misinterpreting the previous paragraph but as an aside
n the case of Ireland (and it probably happened in Scotland) there were
laws forbidding the use of Irish language and certain religious
practice.
--
=================================
skenny@pico.engr.mun.ca
St. John's, NF, CANADA
"Have a touton or do without'n !"
From: sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Education
Date: 26 Jul 92 00:33:52 GMT
	<2A70622A.341@telly.on.ca>
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal

>>>>> On 24 Jul 92 20:03:53 GMT, evan@telly.on.ca (Evan
Leibovitch) said:

  > >You talk to people in french and they answer
  > >you in english.

  > What odd logic can use this statement as proof that these
  > groups are not subject to state discrimination?

  > If a merchant won't speak to you in the language of your choice, then
  > don't buy from them. If enough customers act this way, then these
  > businesses either:
	[...]

Evan? Is that you? A couple of months ago I posted a message
asking people if I should by a product from a unilingual
anglophone, and you basically said yes. So did most of the
persons who answered my post.

It sounds contradictory. Don't you think?
--
  ,                          ,                           ,
Stephane Boucher, ing. jr. | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca        | Tel: (514)340-5950
sbo@info.polymtl.ca        | Fax: (514)340-4078
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: jstewart@alfred.carleton.ca (John Stewart)
Subject: Re: Bilingualism at universities (was Re: Bla, bla)
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:58:36 GMT


My definition of a bilingual university is one in which students are forced to
study in both official languages.

One institution that meets this requirement is the Military College in
St. Jean, Quebec (College militaire royal de Saint-Jean).  
The language used by students and instructors is rotated
weekly between English and French so each language is used about 50% of the
time.  The goal is for all students graduating from CMR to be fluently
bilingual.
-- 
John Stewart -- Computing and Communications Services, Carleton University
Internet: jstewart@ccs.carleton.ca or Mr.Canoehead@algonquin.carleton.ca  
"Why can't we just forget about our constitutional problems and go canoeing?"
From: audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: God Save your Queen
Date: 31 Jul 92 14:25:08 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article stevew@teleride.on.ca (Stephen M. Webb) writes:
]An individual has a right to speak the language of her choice and retain the
]culture of her choice.  That right is not "given" by some inbred potentate
]living in a foreign country.  A right is never "given."  A Quebecer is not
]"lucky" to be able to lead a normal life because some syphilitic king some
]centuries ago decided not to decimate his ancestors.

Hey, I like that.

]I certainly don't feel any need for an inherited head-of-stateship.  In
]fact, I loathe the concept and I am overtly in favour of the elimination of
]the last vestiges of colonialism in my homeland.

Maybee there is hope afterall... We also have to get rid of Governor
General and similar useless expensive decorations.

-- 
                                                       Francois Audet
                                                           '
                                      Telephone: (613) 592-2121 x1754
                          Internet: Francois.Audet@software.Mitel.COM
From: audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Bilinguisme
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:52:57 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article writes:
]Wait a minute. *I'm Quebecois* (even if I wasn't born here, and
]French isn't my mother tongue).  I don't like these silly generaliz-
]ations that Quebecois are anti-British.

I agree. Especially since I wrote the thing about the british since I
believed Mr. Potter's example of a school in a language I've never
heard of in London was totally irrelevant.

]Maybe this is true for some jobs, but certainly not all of them.
]I know of many unilingual anglophone research scientists with the
]federal government, including some newly hired ones.  I also know
]of bilingual anglos and bilingual francos, but not any unilingual
]francophones.

Actually I don't think I've ever met any francophone with his high
school education who wasn't reasonably bilingual.

-- 
                                                       Francois Audet
                                                           '
                                      Telephone: (613) 592-2121 x1754
                          Internet: Francois.Audet@software.Mitel.COM
From: sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Canada 125 - Politicaly involved?
Date: 27 Jul 92 23:45:45 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal


Hi,

Recently, Thomas Hood has said that some show(s) at Montreal
350th aniversary celebration had some political conotation
(Note that I have not seen most of the shows). He however
did not talk about Canada 125. So I will...

Somehow I feel that Canada 125 is going behond his mendate
"to bring Canadians to celebrate Canada's 125 anniversary".
One thing that keeps coming back to my mind is the
"...Canada stay together..." somewhere in the theme song.
There's also the Canada 125 logo on my GST refund check.

Am I the only one to think Canada 125 should have been more
careful in their approach to avoid politics?

I don't mind people partying, but I fail to see how some of
the things (see above for some examples) are related to a
celebration.
--
  ,                          ,                           ,
Stephane Boucher, ing. jr. | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca        | Tel: (514)340-5950
sbo@info.polymtl.ca        | Fax: (514)340-4078
From: sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Independence is already in process
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:06:37 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal

>>>>> On Tue, 28 Jul 1992 06:37:58 GMT, peterd@bunyip.com (Peter Deutsch) said:
  > Nntp-Posting-Host: expresso.cc.mcgill.ca

	[ ... Loooooong Posting ... ]
  > Thanks, I feel better now. You poor misguided souls can go back to calling each 
  > other names and ignoring each other's postings again. I'm going home to bed...

  > 			- peterd

Boy! You must type as fast as you talk :-) Must have taken
you not more than 2 minutes to write that :-)

--

English version follows...

--
Peut-etre devrais-tu ecrire en francais? La longueur de tes
messages serait plus raisonnable :-)

Je dis cela car a la conference RISQ 92 a Montreal, Peter et
son acolyte avaient fait une presentation sur Archie en
anglais (Je pense que Peter a par la suite eu des menaces de
mort, mais je ne peu confirmer. Peter pourra vous en dire
plus la dessus :-)). Il y avait un tech de Poly qui a toute
la misere du monde avec l'anglais et lorsque Peter s'est mit
a parler (a un vitesse fulgurante), le pauvre tech n'y a vu
que du feu :-) Un peu plus tard, a un Bof, Peter avait parle
en francais et la vitesse etait plus "normal".  D'ou la
suggestion d'ecrire en francais, pour que les messages
soient plus court.

Notez les :-).

--
Maybe you should write in French? The lenght of your post
would be more reasonnable. :-)

I say that because at the RISQ 92 conference in Montreal
Peter and his acolyte made a presentation on Archie in
English (I think that Peter subsequently received death
treath(sp?), but I can't confirm. Peter will probably be
able to tell you more on that :-)). There was a technician
from Poly that had a REALLY hard time with English and when
Peter started to talk (at an incredible speed), the poor
technician only saw fire :-). Later at a Bof, Peter talked
in French and the speed was more "normal". Hence the
suggestion to write in French so the posts will be shorter.

Note the :-)

--

God rid us of the queen!
--
  ,                          ,                           ,
Stephane Boucher, ing. jr. | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca        | Tel: (514)340-5950
sbo@info.polymtl.ca        | Fax: (514)340-4078
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Evolving conceptions of "fairness"
Date: 28 Jul 92 02:35:04 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 607

From article <Bs2A8s.7sp@ireq.hydro.qc.ca>, by beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
 Denis Beauregard writes:-

> ..... I don't see
> how you can associate the more radically nationalist Quebecois and
> the Boubou party.

  Well the're both nationalist parties to begin with.

  (Just butting in - don't mind me!

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: msharder@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Mathew Harder)
Subject: Re: Monument to de Gaulle
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 12:44:28 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.191516.6311@pandora.matrox.com> thood@corvus.matrox.com (Thomas Hood) writes:
>
>If Quebecers hope to remain within the Commonwealth after
>separation, then it will be prudent for them to show
>respect for Her Majesty.

   Somehow, I don't think that staying in the BRITISH Commonwealth is
quite what the sovereigntists have in mind.  :-)

				Mathew Harder
				msharder@descartes.uwaterloo.edu
From: audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: God Save your Queen
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:27:40 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <1992Jul30.133628.10389@eci386.uucp> rstory@eci386.uucp (Robert Story) writes:
||nor the Monarchy nor Monarchists. On this note, when I saw clips of the
||Canada Day celebrations where new Canadians swearing allegiance to the
||Queen (in Winnipeg I believe), I nearly gagged... what a croc.
|
|Ever seen Americans, with hand over heart, pledging allegiance
|to their flag? Now THAT's a croc!  I'd rather swear allegiance
|to some ONE than some THING, thank you!

Well I wouldn't swear allegeance to a Queen of England more than to an
American flag. They both are, for me, equally "a croc".

-- 
                                                       Francois Audet
                                                           '
                                      Telephone: (613) 592-2121 x1754
                          Internet: Francois.Audet@software.Mitel.COM
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Defn of Francophone
Date: 29 Jul 92 13:31:32 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 869

From article <CLAMEN.92Jul28222907@BYRON.SP.CS.CMU.EDU>, by clamen@CS.CMU.EDU
 Stewart Clamen suggests:-

> In article <Bs4Do2.Jst@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) writes:
> 
> 				.
> 				.
> 
>    I think francos is now 84%, including your child going to a French school.
> 
> I am pretty sure that the Quebec (political) definition of
> "Francophone" refers to people who claim French as their mother
> tongue.  Steven's son, even though he goes to a French-language
> school, is probably still an Anglophone.
> 

  Damn Right!

  
-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
From: "stephanie fysh" <stephanie.fysh@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: talk.politics.canada
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:40:40 EST
Reply-To: "stephanie fysh" <stephanie.fysh@canrem.com>
Distribution: can
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

OF>So, there is a sense in creating talk.politics.canada. And I
OF>think to add ",talk.politics.canada" to your "Newsgroups:"-line
OF>when posting to can.politics will not be too much work for
OF>you...  ;-)

A few of us who participate in can.politics do so through commercial
USENET gateways.  The one I'm on, at least, does not have access to a
newsgroups line, so although I would receive both conferences, I would
have to post twice.

- Stephanie.
---
  SLMR 2.1a  "Besides, it is clearly a bunny rabbit" - Data
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Bilingualism at universities (was Re: Bla, bla)
Date: 28 Jul 92 02:25:06 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 732

From article <12396@audetf>, by audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet):
> In article (CZ94000) writes:
>>I know several students at McGill who wrote their theses in French
>>with no problem.  (I'm not claiming there are never problems.)
> 
> At least McGill (unlike Ottawa U) does not pretend it's bilingual when
> it's not.
> 

  Francois,

  Please provide definition of "Bilingual" (Use whatever dictionary you
  like).

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
From: audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Bilingualism at universities (was Re: Bla, bla)
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:49:28 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article steve@aqua.ocunix.on.ca (no) writes:
>Francois, tu dis que l'Universite d'Ottawa n'est pas bilingue?  Tu farces si 
>tu veux dire que U of O est une universite anglais???

Bon, je vais reprendre ce que j'ai dit il y a quelques mails en
utilisant des termes plus "politically correct".

L'universite d'Ottawa n'est pas completement bilingue. Elle offre des
programmes en francais et en anglais, mais dans plusieurs cas, il est
impossible de faire sa formation entierement (ou meme a moitiee) en
francais. Par exemple, la la Faculte de Genie n'offre pas beaucoup de
cours en francais apres la premiere annee. Notons que cette Faculte
(comme toute les Facultes de l'universite) est OFFICIELLEMENT
bilingue, et, selon la Charte de l'universite, les etudiants ont le
droit (Charter of Rights :-) d'ecrire examens et travaux en anglais ou
en francais. En pratique, tu te fais souvent baiser si t'essaie de le
faire.

En plus, plusieurs etudiants qui s'inscrivent a l'Universite d'Ottawa
s'attendent a avoir le choix d'etudier en francais apres avoir lu la
publicite mensongere de l'universite.

Conclusion: "University of/d' Ottawa" (comme c'etait ecrit) n'est pas
une universite vraiement bilingue. C'est de la frime puisque certaines
Facultes sont tres peu bilingues. C'est un peu comme dire que le
Canada est un pays bilingues parce que Montreal et Ottawa sont "assez"
bilingues.


-- 
                                                       Francois Audet
                                                           '
                                      Telephone: (613) 592-2121 x1754
                          Internet: Francois.Audet@software.Mitel.COM
From: beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: God Save your Queen
Date: 29 Jul 92 13:59:17 GMT
Organization: Institut de recherche d'Hydro-Quebec, Varennes, Canada

In article <1992Jul28.184857.23551@bnr.ca> dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton) writes:
>
>The French lost the war.  All of Quebec was signed to over to Britian, not
>some of it, all of it.  France unconditionaly surrendered.  Yes, they tried
>to expell them, which was a scummy thing to do, but they also afterwards,
>granted self governing rights to Quebec.  You have the freedom to choose
>because of the British Monarchy, and are not a subjegated people because
>of it (Quebec culture would be dead by now if that was the case).  If you
>don't like the idea, that is your problem.
>
>Don

Still some bullsh*ting about the right of the conqueror.

The first think a war prisoner has to do is to try to evad.

The first think a conqeured people has to do is to force the invader out.

Moreover, the Queen was _never_ elected or otherwise choosed by Canadian
people.  Le droit d'etre roi ou reine par naissance, c'est de la m* en vrac.
Et vive les lese-majestes.

Oh, that sempiternal (sp?) remembrance of the British fairness and generosity.

-- 
  \_\    Denis Beauregard  *  internet:beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
 /   \   Genealogiste officiel : Beauregard/Jarret/Jarest/Vincent
J   __>  Barthelemy Jarret (1471) -> Andre Jarret, sieur de Beauregard (1665)
\_.-===   -> Denis Beauregard (1992)                  Opinions ? Et pis non !
From: audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Richard Holden & compulsory bi-elections
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:49:48 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article (Steven C. Potter) writes:
>  We have those non elected "Bloc-Quebecois" M.P.s in Ottawa. One of them,
>  Gilbert Chartrand for Verdun (he happens to be my fed. rep., bummer!),
>  crossed the floor twice.

They are elected: in Canada you vot for the individual, not the party.
That's why you can have independent MPs. 

Also, the Bloc Quebecois is not recognized in the chamber, therefore
it's members are independent MPs.

-- 
                                                       Francois Audet
                                                           '
                                      Telephone: (613) 592-2121 x1754
                          Internet: Francois.Audet@software.Mitel.COM
Newsgroups: can.politics