From: jkapson@ad-29.Naitc.Com (John Kapson)
Subject: Re: Hitler (was "A rat is a pig is a.....")
Organization: AC Nielsen Co., Bannockburn IL
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 15:45:30 GMT


In article <BzJ5A3.FFD@wpg.com> russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence) writes:
rl> As I mentioned previously, I've read Hitler's book and Speer's 
rl> memoirs;  I've read several of the major textbooks dealing with the 
rl> nazi era;  and I've also read several dozen papers written by 
rl> professional students of history dealing with nazi political 
rl> ideology.  None of them lend credence to the claim that the nazi's 
rl> were animal rights advocates in any meaningful sense.  

John Kapson writes:
jk> Please explain what you mean by "in any meaningful sense." 
jk> Seems rather vague, doesn't it?

Russell Lawrence writes:
rl> Please define the concept of "animal rights" that was allegedly 
rl> advocated by the nazis.    

From article <1992Dec22.151733.6338@Firewall.Nielsen.Com>, by jkapson@ad-29.Naitc.Com (John Kapson):
jk> As I expected: Lawrence makes as assertion that I find ambiguous, 
jk> I ask for some clarification, and Lawrence retorts with more 
jk> dictionary games while declining to amplify on his previous 
jk> assertion.  One wonders whether Lawrence is actually interested in 
jk> discussion or simply in wasting peoples' time...  

In article <BzoM9B.33x@wpg.com> russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence) writes:
rl> You asked me to define the notion of "meaning", yet you proceeded to
rl> accuse me of playing "dictionary games".   I'm somewhat amazed that 
rl> you consider the term, "meaning", to be ambiguous, yet apparently have
rl> no difficulty swallowing the fact that various posters have been using 
rl> the term "animal rights" in a highly ambiguous fashion in order to 
rl> smear their opposition.

rl> We're using the english language to communicate, and my english 
rl> dictionary defines the term "meaning" as a mental construct that 
rl> signifies or indicates (ie points).  It subsequently defines the term 
rl> "meaningful" as an expression that is full of meaning or full of 
rl> significance.  

Lawrence avoids the issue again.  I was not asking for the definition of
"meaning" as he would have everyone think; I was asking what he meant by
the phrase "in any meaningful sense."  The two are not synonymous (sp?).
By adding the phrase "in any meaningful sense" to his earlier assertion
of "None of them lend credence to the claim that the nazi's were animal
rights advocates ..." we are unable to ascertain whether his assertion is
true or false until we know what he considers "any meaningful sense."

Again, Lawrence seems more interested in seeing his name in print than
in having an honest discussion.  I am not interested in stroking his
electronic ego any longer and will not continue this thread unless he
decides that he actually _is_ interested in sharing ideas, not simply
splitting hairs, twisting words, and dodging questions.

Happy Holidays, everyone (Lawrence, too)!

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