HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pjn+@cs.cmu.edu (P J Narayanan)
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
Subject: Koteeswara Iyer's krithis in all melakarta ragams
Summary: Tapes of the above available at SVTemple, Pittsburgh
Keywords: Melakartaragams, Koteeswara Iyer
Date: 8 Nov 92 23:44:49 GMT
Followup-To: rec.music.indian.classical
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


Koteeswara Iyer has composed beautiful songs in all 72 mELakartA
rAgams, called KandagAnAmudam.  For the first time, they have been
released on cassettes, rendered by Sri S. Rajam. The collection
includes 10 tapes. Rendering and recording them was a project
undertaken by Sree Venkateswara Temple, Pittsburgh and is available
through them.

I own a set and have listened to two or three tapes. The pieces do not
appear in sequential order. S. Rajam sings the ArOhaNam and avrOhaNam
of each rAgam and a short AlApanam before proceeding to the krti.  The
songs are rendered in a steady and good tempo. Many pieces include
beautiful chiTTaswarams. S. Rajam includes a few passages of
manOdharma swarAs at the end of each song. The compositions are
(almost ?) all in Tamil and have the rAga name woven into them very
craftily. They all contain Koteeswara Iyer's mudra, "kavi
kunjaradAsa."  Overall, the tapes represent an invaluable service to
Carnatic music by SVTemple and S. Rajam. Apparently, Koteeswara Iyer
had notated each piece. Thus we are hearing the "authentic" version of
the songs. A definite must for all aficionados.

One lives to learn endlessly, doesn't one? The first tape of the above
includes a few words of introduction by T. S. Parthasarathy. TSP
sketches the development of structure in the form of mELakartA rAgams
very briefly. He said that though VenkaTamakhi devised the current set
of 72 MKRagas, his mELams were not complete or "sampUrNam," they were
mere scales. Later, one Govinda made the current 72 sampUrNa mELas.

This is completely new to me. Does anyone have any information on
this?  Who was this Govinda and when did he live? What were the
structure of VenkaTamakhi's mELams?

Also, can someone post biographical/historical and/or anything else
they have on Koteeswara Iyer? How about Koteeswara Iyer for the
Great Masters series? :-)

PJN

-- 
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Robotics Institute, CMU			pjn@cs.cmu.edu
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
---
From: partha@mse.ogi.edu (R. Parthasarathy)
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
Subject: MELAKARTHA RAGAS
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:06:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45533
Distribution: world
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute, Material Science & Engineering

I am a novice in classical music. I am very much interested in knowing
more. Can someone knowledgeable here post or email me all the 72
Melakartha ragas and their aarohanams and avarohanams. I know it
takes a lot of effort. However, I am willing to wait for it. It will
be a great service done to the world of music if anyone of you
can enlighten other classical music "illiterates" like me.

Thanks a million in advance,

Partha sarathy
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: dran@cs.albany.edu (Paliath Narendran)
Subject: Muthiah Bhagavatar
Originator: dran@panini.albany.edu
Organization: The University at Albany, Comp. Sci. Dept.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 22:00:49 GMT


There is no swAti tirunAL kriti in valaji, at least according to
the collection compiled by Prof. V.S. Sharma (published in 1985).

KotIswara Iyer's time period is given as 1870-1940 in one book.
He studied under rAmanAthapuram ("poochi") Shrinivasa iyengAr
and paTnam subrahmaNia Iyer. 

Narendran


Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: pjn+@cs.cmu.edu (P J Narayanan)
Subject: Re: Karnatak music info
Followup-To: rec.music.indian.classical
Keywords: Sageetakalpadrumam, Muthaiah
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:42:52 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.001830.7400@epas.toronto.edu> jcampana@epas.utoronto.ca (John Campana) writes:
>Could someone kindly tell me a bit about the time theory with ref. to
>Southern rags? Are there seasonal, morning, pre-dawn rags, etc.? Also
>(be frank)what is the Southern rasikas' opinion regarding the
>Hindustani version of rags borrowed from Carnatic music: Kalavati,
>Kirwani, Vachaspati, Latangi, etc.?
>
>John Campana

I agree with Krishna's reply. There ARE indeed classifications of the
southern ragas by the time of the day, but today it is purely of
academic interest. Another observation from my limited experience in
this matter is that the classifications in Carnatic and Hindustani
styles are mutually consistent, if not identical. Thus, I don't think
a Carnatic raga similar to a Hindustani evening raga will be
classified as something other than an evening raga in the south. Those
classifications belong to Indian classical music!

I am in possession of a book called "SangIta Kalpadrumam" by
Muthaiah Bhagavathar. (Kalpadrumam is the divine tree that grants all
your wishes.) I think the book was written in Tamil (or Sanskrit ?),
but I have a Malayalam version with me. This book attributes to each
raga, apart from the time of the day, a birthday, a brith star, a
spouse, an enemy, etc. I haven't read any part of the book very
carefully. May be I will and post the attributes of some of the
common ragas! Anyone know more details of this kind?

My personal opinions about the Carnatic ragas adopted into Hindustani
style: I don't get the same feel when I hear those ragas in Hindustani
style. In particular, Hamsadhwani. The Hindustani version is "missing
in something", IMHO. In contrast, Kalavati (I thought it migrated
from the north to the south) sounds far sweeter and "nicer" than its
equivalent, Valachi. I have liked the only version of Abhogi that I
have heard (Amjad Ali Khan's). I have heard Ravishankar's Charukesi
and almost didn't think it was the same raga. The Carnatic Charukesi
is one of my favourite ragas. Never heard Kirawani, Vachaspati or
Latangi. I should hasten to add that my listening experience is very
limited in Hindustani music.

PJN

-- 
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Robotics Institute, CMU			pjn@cs.cmu.edu
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
---
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: usubrama@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Uma M Subramanian)
Subject: Re: Mutthiah Bhagavatar
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 00:00:54 GMT

>In article <Bx9tKJ.BBB@beach.csulb.edu> vishwa@beach.csulb.edu (Viswanath Nanjundiah) writes:
>Thanks a lot for answering my earlier questions. I would like to know 
>the time, place etc of Shri.Mutthiah Bhagavatar. (I believe he is the
>composer of "Himagiri tanaye", "Jaalandara", "Sudhaamayee"... Correct me
>please if I am wrong). Could someone please post an article on him.
>Thank you very much.
>vishwa
>

Born in Harikesanallur in 1877. Author of "Sangeetha Kalpadrumam". Said
to be an exponent of 'harikatha'. Compositions in Tamil, Telugu, Kannada
and Sanskrit which include pada varnas and tana varnas. 

Uma Subramanian

PS: T.N. Seshagopalan, whose guru Ramanathapuram C.S. Sankarasivam was
a disciple of Muthiah Bhagavatar, has an album "Compositions of
Harikesa Muthiah Bhagavatar", which, in my opinion, is excellent. Has
some beautiful compositions such as "ennaalu" in Mandhari, "vancha thonu" 
in Karnaranjani and "krpa nite" in Hamsanadam. Karnaranjani is among
the ragas that are said to be Muthiah Bhavatar's creations.
From: mani@sabotage.Berkeley.EDU (Mani Varadarajan)
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
Subject: Re: "balakanakmaya" (was Re: Lyrics, please)
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:38:33
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
	<1992Nov6.210622.5692@tandem.com> <100910@bu.edu>
Reply-To: mani@cs.stanford.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sabotage.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: raj@cs.bu.edu's message of 6 Nov 92 21:50:50 GMT

In article <100910@bu.edu> raj@cs.bu.edu (Rajagopalan) writes:


   In article <1992Nov6.210622.5692@tandem.com>, raj@tandem.com (Raj Ganesan) writes:
   >            (anupallavi)
   >Bala Kanakamaya sela sujana pari baala sri rama /    ...

		 (charanam)
   >Ra Ra devaathi devaa
   >ra ra maghaanu bhava
   >ra ra ra jeeva netra
   >raghuvara putra

I don't remember reading the entire article before, but I'd
like to correct the saahitya presented above.

The charanam should be:

	rA rA dEvAdidEva	dEvAdidEva = God of gods
	rA rA mahAnubhAva	
	rA rA rAjIvanEtra	rAjIvanEtra = the one who has 
					      eyes like a lotus

In addition, the first line of the anupallavi is

	bAla kanakamaya cela sujana paripAla SrI ...
			^^^^            ^^^^

Mani

Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: tmohan@iastate.edu (Thyagarajan Mohan)
Subject: Re: maeLakarthaa chakra
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Distribution: rec.music.indian.classical
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 18:21:29 GMT

In article <#XC=TKA@engin.umich.edu> srini@engin.umich.edu (Srinivasan Pichumani) writes:
>In article <BxKGss.5vu@news.iastate.edu> tmohan@iastate.edu (Thyagarajan Mohan) writes:
>>
>>     Some maeLas like,i9,46,48,54,55,59,61,66 seem to have some differen type 
>>of SANKHYA.
>>
>>Thanks in advance.
>>MOHAN
>
>In the nomenclature introduced by GovindAcArya (the "kanakAngI-ratnAngI" system),
>there are a few deviations from the "katapayAdi" rule; this rule, incidentally,
>is a very old rule and has been used in other places too. There is a shloka/
>sentence from Vararuci's writings that explains this rule.
>
>Anyway, the deviations occur when there is a conjunct consonant; according to
>Vararuci, the second part of the consonant is the one that should be taken
>into account for the "sankhya". However, in GovindAcArya's nomenclature, 
>sometimes the first part is taken into account and sometimes the second part.
>
>e.g. in the case of cakravAkam, the sankhya is worked out as follows:
>	ca --> 6
>	kra --> 1 (taking the (i)k into account)
>therefore, the mela number is 16, the reverse of 61.
>
>However, in the case of ratnAngI, 
>	ra --> 2
>	tna --> 0 (taking the na into account)
>therefore, the mela number is 02, the reverse of 20.
>
>--Srini.

      Thank you very much for Vararuchi's explanation which is quite new,
atleast to me.Based on this,some more explanations are possible according to
which there's no deviation of SANKHYA in this system.

     Let us consider some exanmples.

    `rathnaangi'   : rath|na(not ra|thna;`thna'is not an individual character) 
                       2 | 0       |         02 or 2

   `soorya kaandham': soor|ya
                        7 |1          17
    
     `dhivyamaNi'   : dhi|vya(vya is an accepted iondividual character)
                       8 |4           48  (considering Vararuchi)

    `shtvidhamaargini':shat|vi 
                        6  |4        46  (Is it shat or shaT?)

     `DHarmavathi'    :DHar|ma
                        9  |5        59

     `chithraambari' : chi|thra
                        6 | 6        66

        The system has to be without any defect.Otherwise,our people would
have shown the BLACK FLAG long back.However,the splitting of the letters may
be better explained by some `PaaNinis'.

         `KATAPAYAADHI SNKHYA'is an old,simple system,but very poweful which is
used thro'out the Sanskrit literature to indicate numbers.To quote an example,
in `Mahaabhaaratha',one of the reasons for continuing the war for `Eighteen 
Days'is that,it is the number indicated by the word `JAYA'(victory) thro'this 
SANKHYA.It will be useful for the Netters if some more information regarding 
this is provided by people who knows more abut this.

p.s:Pl.read the 41st maeLa in my earlier posting as `paavani' and not `Paavani'
      
Thanks in advance     

MOHAN

Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: pjn+@cs.cmu.edu (P J Narayanan)
Subject: Re: Shashank' flute concert
Followup-To: rec.music.indian.classical
Keywords: Shashank, flute, schedule
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:44:34 GMT

Does anyone know the current itineraray of Shashank?
He is not performing in Pittsburgh this time and I was
wondering if I could attend one of his performances
somewhere nearby (within 500 miles ?)

Thanks!

PJN

-- 
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Robotics Institute, CMU			pjn@cs.cmu.edu
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
---
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Subject: Re: ...... a novice's opinion of smt.sudha_raGunaathan's comcert ....
Reply-To: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 14:53:23 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.091444.7389@leland.Stanford.EDU>, buddha@leland.Stanford.EDU (Corvin Russell) writes:
|> <stuff deleted>
|> It was my impression that in former times Carnatic vocal performances were accompanied by the vina, just as dhrupad performances in the north were accompanied until relatively recently by the bin.  This practice appears in fact to be well attested early o|> n by accounts in Sanskrit kavya and other classical literature (such as, for example, the Tamil Cilappadikaram).  No doubt ancient artwork and shastraic sources would confirm the widespread use of the vina in accompaniment.  A recent specimen of vina






 
|> paniment exists on the Bahrenreiter label in an anthology of Carnatic music, but it suffers from the lack of mridangam accompaniment (it is nibaddha, though).  At the moment I can't remember the particular artists on that disc.  
|> 

Yes. I have asked several people this question about accompaniment
prior to the introduction of violin and I was told that the veena was
used.

|> Since I'm new to RMIC, I should say that my main area of expertise is in the tabla tradition, particularly the Lucknow baj as taught by Pt. Swapan Chaudhuri (though I am by no means an authority of any kind).  I would certainly welcome more active partici|> pation on the part of Hindustani jankars, and tabla rasiks in particular. 
|> 

Oh goody ! You missed a fairly long discussion I had initiated in July
regarding tabla players and more recently a discussion on the meaning
of 'laya'. (BTW I'm a tabla student of Padmabhushan Pandit Nikhil Ghosh.)

Shiv
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
Subject: Re: ...... a novice's opinion of smt.sudha_raGunaathan's comcert ....
From: ARIJIT MAHALANABIS <AXM128@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 16:09:23 EST
Organization: Penn State University

There is something interesting brought up in this review. While I don't
agree with the author that violin accompaniment to vocal concerts is
disturbing in any way, I am curious why Carnatic musicians switched to
the violin. If I understand correctly, the Sarangi or some form of the
bowed instrument was used as melodic accompaniment prior to the rise
of the violin in the south. Why was the change made?

Arijit.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                             _____
The seven most beautiful sounds            O-| O |
in life:                                     |   |-O
Sa,Re,Ga,Ma,Pa,Dha,Ni.                       | O |
                                             =====
                                             |||||
                                             |||||
                                             |||||
Arijit Mahalanabis                           |||||
e-mail: AXM128@PSUVM.PSU.EDU                 |||||
        MAHALANA@CRAYOLA.CS.PSU.EDU          |||||
        ARIJIT@MATH.PSU.EDU                 / ||| \
                                           /  |||  \
                                          |   ---   |
                                           \_______/


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: buddha@leland.Stanford.EDU (Corvin Russell)
Subject: Ajrara gharana
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: rec.music.indian.classical
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 07:51:41 GMT
Expires: +7 days

I was wondering if anyone could post information about the history of the Ajrara gharana -- its lineage, its baj etc.  Are there any living exponents true to the baj? Last year Vilayat Khan played here with someone claiming to be from the Ajrara gharana.  I think his name was Akram Khan. Has anyone heard him?  Also, I remember reading a passing reference to Habibuddin's son in an Indian newspaper, which said merely that he was languishing in Old Delhi playing for tawaifs (is this true?).  Any compositions 


that might be posted for academic interest would also be greatly appreciated.  (Out of respect for the purity of the tradition, I promise not to try playing any compositions posted in this way, and would expect the same of others. Also, please post only what you feel comfortable sharing - I wouldn't want to cause any guru/student friction.)  I am particularly interested in information on the Ajrara tradition  outside the scope of Gottlieb's coverage, which appears basically to hypostatize a small sample of


 Habibuddin's playing as the essence of the baj.
Finally, if anyone has an idea for an easy notation system to post bols on RMIC, that would be helpful.  My own suggestion would be to use a case-sensitive typographical convention to distinguish fingerings represented by bol homonyms.  For example, in my own tradition, two common ambiguities (in a context-free environment) occur between dha on sur and dha on kinar, and between dhin on the gab and dhin on sur.  These are merely obvious and common examples which could easily be distinguished as follows Dha 


(sur) and dha (kinar); Dhin (sur) and dhin (gab).  Obviously there are many more subtle ambiguities and unconventional bol representations (compounded by the different sets of ambiguities in different gharanas), but without recourse to an elaborate typographical system these can, I think, best be handled by explicit descriptions in individual cases. If there are any other suggestions out there, I would like to hear them so we can make posted bols comprehensible.

My guru has gone to India until February, so I won't be able to draw on his incredible knowledge for these discussions.


Thanks in advance,

Corvin
From: pjn+@cs.cmu.edu (P J Narayanan)
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
Subject: Re: more info please
Keywords: Deepakam, Jyothiswaroopini
Date: 7 Nov 92 17:08:04 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

>There is a story of someone (Thyagaraja ?) lighting up a lamp with
>JyOtiswarUpiNi, the 63rd mElakartA rAga. JyOtiswarUpiNi uses the
>flat dha; other notes are same as PUrvi That. Being a mElakartA rAga,
>it is performed occasionally.
>
>PJN

I made a BIG mistake here. JyOtiswarUpiNi is the 68th mElakartArAga and
NOT the 63rd, which is latAngi. JyOtiswarUpiNi is *very* different from
PUrvi, with ShaTshruti rUshabham, antara gAndhAram, prati madhyaMam,
sudha dhaivatam and kaishiki nishAdam.

PJN

-- 
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Robotics Institute, CMU			pjn@cs.cmu.edu
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
---
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: jcampana@epas.utoronto.ca (John Campana)
Subject: more info please
Organization: University of Toronto - EPAS
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 01:32:55 GMT

First of all, I would like to thank all those who answered my
questions regarding the time theory in the Carnatic system. Thank you.
I have another (this time a rather burning topic, as it were) question
re rag Dipak. I was told of the existence of a cognate in the Carnatic
system. Firstly, is this rag (the Purvi Thath version) ever performed
in the South? Secondly, I would appreciate some discography and also
some details about associated mythologies (like Tansen burning up, for
example). Finally, do any Northern rasiks know about performances
and/or recordings of this rag?

John Campana
From: cco.caltech.edu!vidya (Vidyasankar Sundaresan)
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
Subject: Re: ...... a novice's opinion of smt.sudha_raGunaathan's comcert ....
Date: 6 Nov 1992 01:24:12 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: scratchy.caltech.edu
Originator: vidya@scratchy

In article <92309.160923AXM128@psuvm.psu.edu>  writes:
- There is something interesting brought up in this review. While I don't
- agree with the author that violin accompaniment to vocal concerts is
- disturbing in any way, I am curious why Carnatic musicians switched to
- the violin. If I understand correctly, the Sarangi or some form of the
- bowed instrument was used as melodic accompaniment prior to the rise
- of the violin in the south. Why was the change made?
- 
- Arijit.
- 


The Sarangi was not used as accompaniment in the south. The violin was  
introduced to Carnatic music during the time of the Trinity. Baluswami  
Dikshitar, younger brother of Muthuswami Dikshitar, is said to have been  
one of the very first people who learned  to play the violin and changed  
the tuning of the instrument to suit Carnatic music. What was the scene  
before that time, is a matter of personal opinion. There is not much  
evidence to say whether any accompaniment was used for vocal music, and if  
so, what instrument was used. 

S.Vidyasankar
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: parrikar@csn.org (Rajan Parrikar)
Subject: Re: dhunibhinnashadjam (was Re: Mutthiah Bhagavatar)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 19:07:48 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.184659.24054@tandem.com> raj@tandem.com (Raj Ganesan) writes:
>I have a question : is "dhunibhinnashadjam" the same as
>"Bhinna Shadaj" (Hindustani ?) ? I have heard Kishori Amonkar's
>rendenring of Bhinna Shadaj "Bhajo re mana hari naam", and
>the swaras are ( i think) :

Bhinna Shadaj is pentatonic and also goes by the name Kaushik Dwani.
Briefly, Aroha: S G M D N S' Avaroha: S' N D M G S
All shuddha swaras. Reminiscent of Raga Hemant.
Lata Mangeshkar's Meera Bhajan "Ud jaa re kaagaa mera Shyam gaya bahot
din ka re ka re...." is set in this Raga.
Other than Kishori-tai's rendition check out Jasraj's.


Rajan Parrikar
==============
email: parrikar@mimicad.colorado.edu
       parrikar@spot.colorado.edu

>Sa ni dha ni sa ga ma dha ni sa
>Sa ni dha ma ga ma ga sa ...
>
>/Raj


Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical,soc.culture.indian,uiuc.org.india
From: vishwa@beach.csulb.edu (Viswanath Nanjundiah)
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
Subject: Mutthiah Bhagavatar
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:31:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Cal State Long Beach

Thanks a lot for answering my earlier questions. I would like to know 
the time, place etc of Shri.Mutthiah Bhagavatar. (I believe he is the
composer of "Himagiri tanaye", "Jaalandara", "Sudhaamayee"... Correct me
please if I am wrong). Could someone please post an article on him.
Thank you very much.
vishwa
From: vishwa@beach.csulb.edu (Viswanath Nanjundiah)
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
Subject: Re: Mutthiah Bhagavatar
Date: 10 Nov 92 19:35:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: beach.BxIMEx.5rM
Distribution: usa
Organization: Cal State Long Beach

In article <1992Nov8.015018.2599@cs.wayne.edu> uds@frigga.cs.wayne.edu (Seetamraju) writes:
>In article <Bx9tKJ.BBB@beach.csulb.edu> vishwa@beach.csulb.edu (Viswanath Nanjundiah) writes:
>>...
>>the time, place etc of Shri.Mutthiah Bhagavatar. (I believe he is the
>>composer of "Himagiri tanaye", "Jaalandara", "Sudhaamayee"... Correct me
>>...
>
>
>I have a cassette by  a andhra singer by the name prabhakar, and he visited a year
>ago selling cassettes without proper labels.  Te above 3 songs are sung in that
>cassette.  Could someone pl. tell me what the commonly applied raagaas are for these
>kritiis ?
>
>
>Seetamraju Udaya Bhaskar Sarma
>(email : seetam @ ece7 . eng . wayne . edu)
>

Himagiri Tanaye is in 'Shuddha Dhanyasi', Jaalandarais  in 'Valaji' and 
Sudhaamayee is in Raga 'Amrita Varshini'.
 hope I a mright.
 vishwa.
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical