HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hjv@phil.ruu.nl (Hendrik Jan Veenstra)
Subject: Re: Atari software?
Organization: Department of Philosophy, University of Utrecht, The Netherlands
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 23:48:31 GMT

erkamp@JANUS.ARC.AB.CA (Bob Erkamp) writes:

>Or there is EZ Score from Barefoot Software (used to be Hybrid Art's)

Hey hey, ho ho!! Is this a new one? I know the old EZscore which allows
only 3 staves per system (which I found quite useless) and I'm already
waiting for *3* years for the new 'soon to come' version... :(
Is the one you mention this new version???
And what's this Barefoot Software? Did they take over EZscore?

greetings from Holland,
Hendrik Jan

--
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  |  hjv@phil.ruu.nl  |   You look for your dreams in
Dept. of Philosophy   |                   |   heaven, but what the hell are
University of Utrecht |                   |   you supposed to do when they
The Netherlands       |                   |   come true...?
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: rolfe@fraser.sfu.ca (Christopher John Rolfe)
Subject: Re: Music composition
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 23:12:14 GMT

u7911050@cc2.nctu.edu.tw writes:

>Hello, all.
		
	Hi.


	If you like reading I'd recommend:

	Davis, Sheila.  The Craft of Lyric Writing.  Cincinatti,
Writer's Digest Books, 1985.

	Russo, William.  Composing Music.  Chicago and London, The
University of Chicago Press, 1983.

	The first outlines popular song forms ( AAA, AABA,
Verse/Chorus ) with many, many examples from the Tin Pan Alley greats
through the seventies and eighties.  It also has an extensive
bibliography.  

	The second is Bill Russo's introduction to modern composing,
in an easy, workbook format.    

	I'd also suggest that you study a few of your favourite
song-writers.  Listen to the structures of their tunes, draw pictures of
their melodies, examine how they match lyrics to music.  Go back to
the great days of American popular songs and learn all about the Gershwins,
Kern, Berlin, Rodgers and Hammerstein, et al. and work up to the
present.

	My last advice is to seek out other songwriters.  There is
probably a songwriter's association in Taiwan somewhere.  Join it.
(N.B. a non-profit songwriter's association will be a cheap or free
way to meet people, and find out about workshops and classes dealing
with songwriting and the business end).   




-- 
Chris                   | 2617 East 4th,| If brevity is the soul of 
rolfe@sfu.ca            | Van., B.C.    | wit, what is semibrevity
Simon Fraser University | V5M 1K5       | the soul of?
Burnaby,  Canada        | Canada        | 
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose,rec.music.beatles
From: jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu (Jay C. Smith)
Subject: Re: What Paul Owns
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:44:47 GMT


In article <1992Oct8.193506.26848@math.ucla.edu> dmac@julia.math.ucla.edu 
(saki) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.172407.1440@b11.b11.ingr.com> mcconnel@b11.b11.ingr.com 
>(Guy McConnell) writes:
>>I seem to recall being told that Paul owned the rights to
>>the Georgia Tech fight song "The Ramblin' Wreck" or whatever it's
>>called.
>
>Paul owns a college football song but I recall that it was the University
>of Michigan tune. I could very well be wrong. I can't find it in any of
>my available books.


I'm absolutely positively sure that ten years ago Paul McCartney owned
the copyright on "I'm a Rambling Wreck from Georgia Tech."


--
Jay C. Smith
Domain/internet: jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Good.  For a minute I thought we were in trouble."
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose,rec.music.beatles
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew H. Fields)
Subject: Re: 'Happy Birthday To You'
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 19:44:22 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.155741.18170@menudo.uh.edu> edc@franklin.bchs.uh.edu (edward s. chen) writes:
>Now, the "secret deal" was first bought to light in Musician magazine.  In the
>US, the first copyright lasts for 25 years.  If the songwriter dies within that
>first 25 years, all rights (again, for US airplay, etc) to the material revert
>back to the estate for the copyright renewal (also lasting 25 years), 
>*regardless* of any other deals made in the intervening time.

These numbers don't sound right! it was 50 years when I was growing up, and
went up to 75 in '78, didn't it?
From: jwlr@escher.cc.rochester.edu (James Willer)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: 'Happy Birthday To You'
Date: 8 Oct 92 15:51:24 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

ross-c@scs.leeds.ac.uk (R Clement) writes:

>What do you think Macca does with the songs he owns? He never lets anyone
>use them for commercial gain? Give me a break!

As I recall Paul took quite a beating over having licensed
(Buddy Holly's) "Oh Boy" for a car commercial at the same time
or just before protesting the use of "Revolution" in a Nike ad.
Paul's response: "Well, I couldn't very well ring him up and ask
	if it was okay."
Implying that the Beatles (sans John) could be asked, but ignoring
the fact that Holly's estate (ie, his *widow*) could easily have
been asked.

The ads featuring "Oh Boy" were quickly dropped after the issue
came up.

>PS: This may be a UL, but I remember that Macca was quoted as saying something
>like "Michael Jackson told me he was going to buy my songs, and I said 'Yeah
>kid, great joke'".

It may be an 'Urban Legend', but Paul *was* the one who started it.
He said this in several interviews.

			James Willer
{the opinions above are probably NOT those of
 anyone at all}
Xref: sparky rec.music.compose:193 rec.music.beatles:4882
From: ross-c@scs.leeds.ac.uk (R Clement)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose,rec.music.beatles
Subject: Re: 'Happy Birthday To You'
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:22:35 GMT
Followup-To: rec.music.compose
Organization: The University of Leeds, School of Computer Studies
Originator: ross-c@csparc2

In article <1992Oct7.020107.9359@netcom.com> ladasky@netcom.com (John J. Ladasky II) writes:
>	Mr. Paul McCartney of Beatles fame became quite the music copyright
>broker in the late 60's, as the Fab Four were falling apart.  He bought up
							       ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>the rights to Beatles stuff, as well as the rights to just about anything 
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is not true. While I do not have the details to hand, in the late '60s
The Beatles (including Paul) were losing their rights to their own songs,
NOT the other way around.

>	So, as I heard/saw it, "Happy Birthday" was one of the tunes that
>Paul bought.

But I too have heard many times that Paul owns this song.

>can enjoy "Revolution" in Nike commercials today.  (Of course, we also have
>to wonder what Paul was thinking when he sold all that stuff...)

Actually Paul was trying to buy the songs at the same time as M.J. The story
I heard was that Yoko persuaded Paul (they were mounting a bid together) that
if they waited the songs could be had at a lower price. This theory, of course,
presumed the absence of any other big bidders, - i.e. it was wrong. But Paul
did NOT sell the rights to M.J.

But, you describe Michael Jackson as "unscrupulous" (sp?) What's unscrupulous
about leasing the rights to a song you own to be used in a Television ad? 
Especially when those rights were obtained fairly, openly, and legally?

What do you think Macca does with the songs he owns? He never lets anyone
use them for commercial gain? Give me a break!

Cheers,

Ross-c

PS: This may be a UL, but I remember that Macca was quoted as saying something
like "Michael Jackson told me he was going to buy my songs, and I said 'Yeah
kid, great joke'".
From: mbreen@sdacs.ucsd.edu (Michael Breen)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: Music composition
Keywords: music, composition, how?
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:32:15 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: sdacs.ucsd.edu

In article <1992Oct16.143226.16154@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes:
>
>I come from the operatic school: let the poet whip up a heck of a good
>poem without regard for music, then work like heck to make good music that
>accomodates the poetry, without ever backtracking to change the words.
>
[and]
>
>Gotta be thinking musically first, technically second.
>

This is how I write...sometimes!  The most important thing I've learned in
10 years of composition is to not get fixed in one mode.  Some things do
work better than others for me, but I've written some of my best work
using 'unorthodox' (for me) methods.

One of my most prolific (i.e. lots of songs but not all my best) techniques
is what Matthew describes: write lots of poetry (I've got 15 years worth!)
and subordinate the music to the words.  I rarely change even an inflection
in the words when I work this way...I try to come up with a melody that works
with the poetic idea I had in mind.

One of my most effective (i.e. not many songs but many are my best) techniques
is to 'patch' together related musical ideas, and write words to go with
the melodies I've created.  This technique was discussed previously in 
some threads about theory and creativity.  This takes me much longer.

They both work for me, and that's only two of many methods I use.

In article <Bw5tC6.6J9@hsi.com> tankus@hsi.com (Ed Tankus) writes:
>
>  I'm still working on a piece I started 11 years ago.  I think if I
>  forced myself to sit and write, and I have when frustrated, I would
>  *still* to be trying to write this song while none of the others I
>  have written since would have ever come out.

Another thing I've learned is DON'T MUCK WITH THE MUSES!  If they tell me
to write, I write...fast!  If they tell me to leave them alone, I go
on with life and wait until they're ready.  In my case, I know for sure
when that is, because they start *screaming* at me.

Michael Breen
singing and philosophizing
(and getting screamed at a lot lately!)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: Atari software?
From: erkamp@JANUS.ARC.AB.CA (Bob Erkamp)
Date: 13 Oct 92 11:48:45 -0700
Reply-To: erkamp@JANUS.ARC.AB.CA
Organization: Alberta Research Council

In article <1992Oct12.161713.2946@echo.philips.nl>, johnj@echo.philips.nl (John Janssen) writes:
>mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio) writes:
>
>>Lesson learned: try to be too concise and what comes out is vague.  Oops.
>
>>I'm looking for notation and playback software -- I want to be able to 
>>easily enter a piece I'm writing, play back all or some lines, and print
>>the whole thing out.  Being able to do entry from a MIDI keyboard, rather
>>than from a mouse, would be nice, but I realize it's a hard problem.
>>I'm not looking for software that would be used in performance/recording/
>>etc; I'm not a keyboard player or an electronic music fan.  I just want 
>>the relative convenience of computer notation (rather than pen and paper)
>>and the ability to hear the entire piece (which I may be arranging for
>>multiple instruments and so can't play myself).
>
>>Thanks.
>
>>Monica
>
>You are looking for NOTATOR from C-lab,
>
>or its junior: NOTATOR ALPHA.
>
>John
>-- 

Or there is EZ Score from Barefoot Software (used to be Hybrid Art's)

Bob
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose,rec.music.beatles
From: mcconnel@b11.b11.ingr.com (Guy McConnell)
Subject: Re: 'Happy Birthday To You'
Reply-To: mcconnel@b11.b11.ingr.com (Guy McConnell)
Organization: Intergraph Corp. Huntsville, AL
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 17:24:07 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.042740.8794@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> jwlr@gauguin.cc.rochester.edu (James Willer) writes:
>
>Paul McCartney's MPL Communications have purchased the rights to *many*
>songs (including the Buddy Holly catalog, among others) but I have 
>never heard that "Happy Birthday" was one of them. Does anyone else
>have knowlege of this?

    And while we're talking about this (we *were* talking about it,
right?) I seem to recall being told that Paul owned the rights to
the Georgia Tech fight song "The Ramblin' Wreck" or whatever it's
called.  I don't recall where I got this idea but I've wondered
about it ever since.  Anyone know the scoop?

--
Guy McConnell  guy@mspe5.b11.ingr.com
"All I need is a pint a day"
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose,rec.music.beatles
From: djs@sadtler.com
Subject: Re: 'Happy Birthday To You'
Organization: Sadtler Research Laboratories
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:47:45 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.182827.24251@news.columbia.edu> brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan) writes:
>And now, for 300 dollars, name the songwriters for "Happy Birthday to
>You", and its original title...
>
>--Joe Brennan
>
>
>PS- There is a REASON that some fine news programs want the new
>material to be longer than the quoted material.  It's not a bug!
>

I do not know the names of the authors ( I do know that it is two women ),
but the answer can be found in the Guiness Book of World Records under the
title of - Most Known Song In The World - or something like that.  


Anybody own a copy of GBOWR?

-- 
D. Sears                                          Email:  djs@sadtler.com
post += disclaimer;                   Sadtler Research Labs, Philadelphia 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: elelimn@nusunix1.nus.sg (Lim Norman N)
Subject: NOTES WANTED: `I can't tell u why'(guitar)
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 11:34:27 GMT

Can anyone please send me the guitar notes of the song:
"I can't tell you why".  Please. S'il vous plait, pouvez
vous m'aides.  Would appreciate very much your help.
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew H. Fields)
Subject: Re: What's cmn? [Re: beaming gripes]
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 11:59:32 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.135831.16233@husc3.harvard.edu> elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies) writes:
>What's cmn?

"Cmn" is the Romanization of the Hebrew transliteration of the English
name for the seed of a plant in the celery/anise family, which is used
as a spice in Indian and Central American cusines.  Typically found
coupled with corriander and chili.

But if you get your local computer wizard to help you learn to use FTP and
TAR, you may be able to retrieve the program of which Bill wrote.

Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: mtvfb@nl (Fokke de Boer)
Subject: Re: Atari software?
Organization: Rijksinstituut voor Volksgezondheid en Milieuhygiene,Bilthoven,NL
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 08:21:12 GMT

John Janssen (johnj@echo.philips.nl) wrote:
: mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio) writes:
: 
: >I'm looking for notation and playback software -- I want to be able to 
: >easily enter a piece I'm writing, play back all or some lines, and print
: >the whole thing out.  Being able to do entry from a MIDI keyboard, rather
: >than from a mouse, would be nice, but I realize it's a hard problem.
: >I'm not looking for software that would be used in performance/recording/
: >etc; I'm not a keyboard player or an electronic music fan.  I just want 
: >the relative convenience of computer notation (rather than pen and paper)
: >and the ability to hear the entire piece (which I may be arranging for
: >multiple instruments and so can't play myself).
: 
: >Thanks.
: 
: >Monica
: 
: You are looking for NOTATOR from C-lab,
: 
: or its junior: NOTATOR ALPHA.
: 
: John
: -- 
: John Janssen         Email: johnj@echo.philips.nl      <-- May stop soon(?)

Or possibly CuBase. I admit that the score printed by Notator is better,
though. I once read something like: "CuBase is for musicians, Notator is
for composers" or something similar.

--
I am:   Fokke de Boer
EMAIL	mtvfb@rivm.nl
SNAIL	RIVM, dep. MTV, PO Box 1, 3720 BA Bilthoven, The Netherlands
PHONE	(..31) 30 743530 
FAX		(..31) 30 250740
From: elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: What's cmn? [Re: beaming gripes]
Date: 11 Oct 92 16:49:02 GMT
Organization: Harvard Math Department

In article <1992Oct11.115932.5956@zip.eecs.umich.edu>
fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew H. Fields) writes:
:In article <1992Oct10.135831.16233@husc3.harvard.edu>
:elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies) writes:
:>What's cmn?
:
:"Cmn" is the Romanization of the Hebrew transliteration of the English
:name for the seed of a plant in the celery/anise family, which is used
:as a spice in Indian and Central American cusines.  Typically found
:coupled with corriander and chili.

Hardy har har.  (And I think they also use cumin, sans chili, in
some varieties of middle eastern cuisine.  Besides, I've never
seen a "c" in Hebrew Romanization --- it's either k, s, or q ---
and both a straight transliteration and into Hebrew and the actual
Hebrew cognate "Kamon" need one or more matres lectionis(sp?) to
indicate some of the vowels, so you wouldn't just see the three
consonants.)

Comeon, you can do better than that.

:But if you get your local computer wizard to help you learn to use FTP
:and TAR, you may be able to retrieve the program of which Bill wrote.

Thank you.  As it happens I already know FTP etc.  What I don't know
is stuff like what computers the program runs on and what it's supposed
to do.  [If it doesn't run on a Sun, which is the case with most of
these gadgets, I'll need to do a lot more than retrieve the program
in order to try it out.]  For other notation programs that have been
mentioned (Finale, Score, Lime,...) that information is well-known,
but this "cmn" seems to be a newcomer.

--Noam D. Elkies (elkies@zariski.harvard.edu)
  Dept. of Mathematics, Harvard University
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose,rec.music.beatles
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew H. Fields)
Subject: Re: 'Happy Birthday To You'
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:01:07 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.042740.8794@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> jwlr@gauguin.cc.rochester.edu (James Willer) writes:
>"Happy Birthday" *is* copyrighted material, and public performance without
>permission/royalties *is* illegal. This is true regardless of *who* owns it.

Really.  But civil law, not criminal, no? and who's going to sue a restaraunt
staff for singing it? You can't squeeze blood from a turnip.  Sounds like
an urban legend.

>Of course, MJ *does* own the rights to "Birthday".

?? Gee, I thought he'd make so much on Beat It that he wouldn't bother.
But maybe he has to spend it all on plastic surgery.
From: johnj@echo.philips.nl (John Janssen)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: Atari software?
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:17:13 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, E.C.H.O. development department

mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio) writes:

>Lesson learned: try to be too concise and what comes out is vague.  Oops.

>I'm looking for notation and playback software -- I want to be able to 
>easily enter a piece I'm writing, play back all or some lines, and print
>the whole thing out.  Being able to do entry from a MIDI keyboard, rather
>than from a mouse, would be nice, but I realize it's a hard problem.
>I'm not looking for software that would be used in performance/recording/
>etc; I'm not a keyboard player or an electronic music fan.  I just want 
>the relative convenience of computer notation (rather than pen and paper)
>and the ability to hear the entire piece (which I may be arranging for
>multiple instruments and so can't play myself).

>Thanks.

>Monica

You are looking for NOTATOR from C-lab,

or its junior: NOTATOR ALPHA.

John
-- 
John Janssen         Email: johnj@echo.philips.nl      <-- May stop soon(?)
The Netherlands      or:    johnj@echo.tds.philips.nl  <-- same
Work: +31 40 756425  or:    John.Janssen@atehv.bso.nl  <-- Back in Nov. 92
Home: +31 77 513177  Atari Mega STE, PC 386 SX, MIDI, C
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose,rec.music.beatles
From: edc@franklin.bchs.uh.edu (edward s. chen)
Subject: Re: 'Happy Birthday To You'
Organization: Little to none, or maybe not......
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:57:41 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.042740.8794@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> jwlr@gauguin.cc.rochester.edu (James Willer) writes:
>ladasky@netcom.com (John J. Ladasky II) writes:
>
>Paul McCartney never *owned* the all that stuff! John and Paul signed away
>the rights to Northern Songs early on, and Paul was negotiating with Yoko
>(as John's estate) to buy the rights to the Maclen catalog when it was
>bought out from under them by MJ. (Paul has since declared that there was
>some kind of 'insider stuff/secret deal' between MJ and Yoko.)
>

No!  To my knowledge, Paul has never "since declared...'insider stuff/secret 
deal' between Wacko Jacko and Yoko."   He has made a point of saying "I think
there may have been something going on, look at the evidence and make up your 
own mind."

To avoid the obvious question,  the chronology goes something like this.

1) Catalog becomes available
2) Paul decides he wants to buy it, but asks Yoko in, since it is the
   "Lennon / McCartney" catalog
3) Yoko agrees
4) Yoko backs out at (nearly) the last minute.  Paul is unable to raise enough 
   cash quick enough, Jacko buys the catalog.

Now, the "secret deal" was first bought to light in Musician magazine.  In the
US, the first copyright lasts for 25 years.  If the songwriter dies within that
first 25 years, all rights (again, for US airplay, etc) to the material revert
back to the estate for the copyright renewal (also lasting 25 years), 
*regardless* of any other deals made in the intervening time.  So, since John
died within the first 25 year period, Yoko *automatically* received 50% of US
royalties for the Lennon-McCartney catalog (in 1988).

It is certainly not "morally right" (whatever that phrase may mean) for Yoko
to have backed out of the deal, but it appears obvious (to me) that the above
fact was pointed out to her, and she backed out for financial reasons.  (why 
pay large sums of money for something that will be yours for free in a year or
so)

There were stories that Yoko was planning to sell her share of US copyright
back to Jackson, (something the Nike debacle would tend to prove actually
happened) but I have seen no definite proof of this one way or another.

<ESC>
-- 
..You either kiss the future or the past goodbye...
                          -- Ringo Starr (written by O'Deherty / Velez)

                                
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: Joseph.J.Marcheso.Jr.@dartmouth.edu (Joseph J. Marcheso Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: Music composition
Date: 16 Oct 92 22:20:48 GMT
 <Bw308A.98@news.iastate.edu> <Bw5tC6.6J9@hsi.com>  
 <1992Oct16.143226.16154@zip.eecs.umich.edu>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu


I have always heard that 1) Composition cannot be taught 2) Composition
should not be taught, however here is my $.02

I never am conscious of the devises I'm using when I write. I am never
looking to invert of reverse or deliberatly change the contour of the
piece. The piece presents itself and through experience you use
different techniques that you think conveys the meaning and emotion.
However this is all secondary, gernerally if I think hard enough on the
music it writes itself. The product is far better than if you
consciously say to your self "well, I have to modulate here" or "I'm
writing too much in the minor I have to throw in some relative major"
Its perfectly OK to break academic rules for the sake of artistic
expression so long as you know what you're doing and it doesn't become
"clunky." With practice the emotions, and un-conscious application of
theory will make composing a much more liberating and artistic
experience.

Thank You,
Joe
P.S. Any comments?
Xref: sparky rec.music.compose:187 rec.music.makers:10092