HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fullerto@tortoise.cis.ohio-state.edu (timothy dwight fullerton)
Subject: Re: Time to Split alt.recovery ???
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 00:35:25 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.150245.12337@Cadence.COM> jerpseth@sd.cadence.com (James Jerpseth) writes:
>
>Perhaps it is time for this newsgroup to split into groups which would more
>specifically deal with the problem at hand like:
>
>alt.recovery.aa 
>alt.recovery.oa 
>alt.recovery.alanon
>alt.recovery.rr
>alt.recovery.whiners
>
>The first four are serious, the last a comment on the content of this
>group for the last couple of months


>
>Anyone agree? Disagree? (or want to throw a fit like a 3 year old
>  because I called them on their crap?)



        On one hand...if there is sufficient support in all of these areas
certainly there is no reason not to open up new groups.

        On the other... if you do not like a topic string, you do not
have to read it. If you do not like a message that you started to read, you
you not have to finish. It is not like you are going to look bad or disrupt
someone by walking out on them.


>This group is so full of BS that its hardly worth reading anymore ---
>   maybe we could focus more on the issues and problem of recovery
>   if the newsgroup was more focused.


		Seems to me you weren't REALLY kidding about:

>alt.recovery.whiners

				Best wishes,

					Tim F
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Subject: Re: good program
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:42:46 GMT

joni@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (joni.dunlap) writes:

>I'm curious about what people think about if people, lets say with at least
>five years of abstenance from what ever, are still smoking cigarettes are
>truly working a good program? Tobacco is a deadly drug and smoking is an
>addiction.

>Comments?

>Joni :)

Hi Joni!

	I'm gonna assume that you don't mean 'Let's talk about those awful
people who still smoke!' (8-)

	This morning the thought occurred to me this way - the member of
AA who smokes, eats beaucoup donuts (and everything else), has that 
constant look of pain on his face - and has been sober one year longer
than me! How, exactly, do I listen to him? especially when he says things
that I disagree with, and seem to contradict the Big Book? ---yet, he
is _still_ the one with experience in the room? With the most experience
staying sober - and you know other people who have gone off track with
one thing or another, and lost their sobriety?

	I don't know _what_ to think about that guy's program, really.

	And it does matter, because I want to stay sober another year,
too! I stopped smoking 1.4 years ago, and been in 0A for 1.5 years.
What does he know that I don't know???


love and service,

jim p.

-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
Huntsville,AL (205)461-4922  
This life is a test. It is only a test. If it had been a real life, you 
would have been given instructions....
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: weiss872@snake.cs.uidaho.edu (Phil Weiss)
Subject: Male/Female? In AA? (Was: RECOVERY!@???)
Organization: none
Reply-To: weiss@leopard.cs.uidaho.edu
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 21:22:19 GMT
X-Posted-From: snake.cs.uidaho.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In Alt.recovery, moiram@sacajawea (Moira Mallison) writes:
|> 

   [Go back and read the original posts if you are interested enough.]

|> I've read five or six answers to this question, and they all point out the 
|> obvious bias in this newsgroup.  The assumption that when someone is
|> talking about recovery, they are talking about AA.   

Personally, I am going to post a Big Book AA response if I respond.
I do not respond to any post which isn't about alcoholism (sorry,
don't know anything about drugs or other stuff, never had a problem
with them).  If the poster is not clear about what they are recovering
from, then I will assume it is alcoholism.

Readers will assume that a poster's problem is their problem, unless
the poster says what their problem is.

I won't ever tell anyone how to work a non-Big Book alcohol recovery other
than to say that I've tried quite a few other methods, and they haven't
worked.  My alcoholism follows the description of an alcoholic written in
"Alcoholics Anonymous."

If someone doesn't like to hear about recovery from alcoholism the way
the Big Book describes it, then don't read a newsgroup whose purpose is
for people to tell how they recovered from whatever.

|> Now it may be that Chris is an alcoholic, but there is no more in the
|> request to indicate that than there is to indicate whether Chris is a
|> man or a woman.

As far as AA goes, it hardly matters.

Phil.

You will surely meet some of us as your trudge the Road of Happy Destiny.
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: alawrenc@sobeco.com (a.lawrence)
Subject: Re: hi, help?
Organization: Sobeco Ernst & Young
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 19:50:57 GMT

In <1992Jul23.214019.2865@memstvx1.memst.edu> langston@memstvx1.memst.edu (Mark C. Langston) writes:



>Hi...

>	I've come to the conclusion that I have a bit of a problem.
>You see, I tend to drink quite a bit. (Not lately, i.e., not in about 17 hours)
>I realize why I drink.  a) I am an alcoholic, and, get this, b) to lose
>control.  Go and figure.  I know this sounds trite to any alcoholic, but
>it bugs me.  You'll see why.
    .....
>	Before anyone makes any wonderful suggestions, a few points:  
    .....
>	Now then.  I would like to change, I indeed _want_ to change, but ...
    .....

Hi Mark,
    I read our posting with interest and wish I could help you, but quite
honestly I don't think I can.  My own personal feeling is that you need
a major attitude adjustment.  The only ways I know to accomplish this is
to keep drinking until either you die or change, or to adopt a recovery
program of one kind or another with all of your heart and soul.
    You appear to want us (AA etc) to wave a magic wand and make you better.
Unforetunately, it doen't work that way.  There is no one in AA who is
is competent to tell you or anyone else what you *should* do.  All we
can do is tell you what we did.  I went to 10-15 meetings a week for the
first two years.  I joined a young peoples group and went to 6 or 7 young
people's conferences every year.  I go involved with running my group
and running AA in my city.  I learned to listen to those who shared
their experience with me and ignore those who only wanted to *fix* me.
    This may sound cruel, but it's not meant to be.  I hope that one day
soon you hurt enough and are sick and desparate enough to let your 
reservations grow.  Desparate enough that when you don't find what 
your looking for you don't turn your back but keep on searching.
    There are young peoples AA groups in Tennessee.  Try to find one.
Yes, AA in general is fundamentalist and thumps the Big Book alot in
Tennessee.  But that book has managed top keep a lot of people sober.
    I hope you find your answer soon.  I also hope you are fortuate
enough to find it fast than I could.  You see, I was never willing
to give those who wanted to help me a chance until I had lost everything.
I had to descend into the hell of living on the street before I lost
enough of my arrogance and pride to become teachable.  Letting go was 
for me because I had nothing left to hang on to.


-- 
On a clear disk you can seek forever.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Lawrence, Informaticien Conseil           |  alawrenc@sobeco.com
3605 St-Urbain, #1605                            |  uunet!sobeco!alawrenc
From: weiss872@snake.cs.uidaho.edu (Phil Weiss)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Corrections and treatment work
Keywords: AA alcoholism
Date: 30 Jul 92 23:02:16 GMT
Reply-To: weiss@leopard.cs.uidaho.edu
Organization: University of Idaho CS Dept.


Does anyone have any experience in taking meetings into correctional
facilities (jails and prisons) or treatment facilities?

I am on this district's Corrections and Treatment Committee.  I have
told my story in jails and a treatment facility.  The committee also
takes a general meeting into two prisons, and a Big Book study into
another, as well as a few more odds and ends.

I don't have any specific problem, nor do I have a general sense
of malaise (sp?) regarding anything related to this work.

I am interested in hearing other people's experience in taking
meetings into prisons, or people's experience at hearing the message
while in prison/jail.  Just to get some perspectives.

(I am not interested in hearing how the treatment center you may have
went through ran meetings.  I would like to hear how AA was brought
into treatment centers.  Many treatment centers have their "own"
groups, or the treatment center has their own version of AA,
the steps, etc.  This committee doesn't do that sort of thing, but
does bring meetings into facilities, so that's what I am interested
in hearing about.  Not a flame, it just isn't useful to me at this
moment.)

Phil.
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: joni@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (joni.dunlap)
Subject: Re: Time to Split alt.recovery ???
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:07:53 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.150245.12337@Cadence.COM> jerpseth@sd.cadence.com (James Jerpseth) writes:

>Perhaps it is time for this newsgroup to split into groups which would more
>specifically deal with the problem at hand like:
>
>alt.recovery.aa 
>alt.recovery.oa 
>alt.recovery.alanon
>alt.recovery.rr
              ^^
SO what does the rr stand for?


>alt.recovery.whiners
>
>The first four are serious, the last a comment on the content of this
>group for the last couple of months ---- snivel,snivel,snivel,
>whine, complain, blame someone else, let's all go to therapy....
>...blah, blah, blah, blah ......
>
>This group is so full of BS that its hardly worth reading anymore ---
>   maybe we could focus more on the issues and problem of recovery
>   if the newsgroup was more focused.
>
>Anyone agree? Disagree? (or want to throw a fit like a 3 year old
>  because I called them on their crap?)
>
>James aka jerpseth@sd.cadence.com
>
>
>-- 
>!  SIN BOLDLY (that God's grace may be bolder still) -- Martin Luther
>!
>! "The views expressed are neither those of Cadence or its Managment
>!   (probably since I'm not certain they know I exist).


Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: daalrutz@violet.uwaterloo.ca (deb alrutz)
Subject: help
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:05:37 GMT


I hope someday you can find peace in your life.Keep writing and maybe
something will strike you as helpful. 
I too controlled everything in my life.  My brother fell flat on his face in
front of me and my father died of alcoholism. I pretended I didn't feel a
thing. The twelve step program helped me to feel my feelings again. I
discovered I wasn't a robot but a living human being .I wish you serenity-Suz

Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: daalrutz@violet.uwaterloo.ca (deb alrutz)
Subject: Re: Splitting alt.recovery
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 12:31:53 GMT


hi!  i agree with these previous posts... i'd hate to see a.r
split because i've learned from all the different *a & other
viewpoints.  since i usually only attend one *a group i get
alot from hearing what's going on elsewhere.  
and i can just hit 'n' or 'k' if there is something i don't
want to deal with...
i like the line in the literature that i'm familiar with that
sez  'it doesn't matter what or how much we used... (recovery)
has to come first'  that sort of sums up how i feel.

hugs to everyone --

deb
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: joannee@sco.COM (Joanne Eglash)
Subject: Re: Hello, I am a newbie
Reply-To: joannee@fscott.UUCP (Joanne Eglash)
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 23:15:55 GMT


One of my favorite and most helpful meeting slogans is "Take what you
like and leave the rest!"  I apply that not only to what is said at
an individual meeting, but to the different groups themselves. For
example, when I realized that a Monday night group meeting I was attending
regularly left me feeling irritated and/or depressed, I investigated
other Monday night meetings -- and found one from which I really benefit!

That meeting is one in which we sit in a circle and take turns reading
a paragraph of the Big Book and then discussing each paragraph in turn.
that way, the meeting focuses on the Big Book itself and the valuable
experiences, strength and hope found in those steps and in those pages,
and avoids having the po
so that the potential for too many "arrogant" speakers is minimized. 
And, as always, if you don't like ANY of the meetings available, you can
start your own! 

So, that's my 1.5 cents for today. 

cheers,
From: "dale smoak" <dale.smoak@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: i do it for myself
Date: 31 Jul 92 13:38:15 EST
Reply-To: "dale smoak" <dale.smoak@channel1.com>
Distribution: alt
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

Mike Coleman (mikec@intelhf.hf.intel.com) writes:
>One of my big bitches with AA, even though I am an active member, is when
>people separate drugs from alcohol. Alcohol is a drug (although drugs
>are not alcohol), and I treat it as such.  When I was younger I had old timers
>talk at meetings about how "You shouldn't mention drugs here those goddamn
>thing ar illegal, and blah blah bull shit bull shit bull shit". Well,
>I left that at the meeting, and took the good stuff the meeting had to offer.

Good for you, Mike.  AA was formed in 1935, just after the end of
Prohibition, which means that probably all of the low-bottom alkies at
the start, and the great majority for several years, were lawbreakers.
---
  DeLuxe 1.25 #12237  dale.smoak#channel1.com/76350.3662@compuserve.com
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA
From: starshine@igc.org
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Date: 21 Jul 92 04:36 PDT
Subject: Re: I hate this.
Nf-ID: #R:1992Jul20.010543.1@pomona.clarem:-1170142187:cdp:1309900059:000:932
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!starshine    Jul 21 04:36:00 1992


Hi Greg,

I've felt as bad as you.  It's hard to believe, but it passes.

I'm writing online and it's not easy, but a couple of things struck
me which I have learned.  The major one is that the universe will
give me the same lesson over and over until I learn it.

The other is that you were feeling guilty for getting close to this
person physically without really knowing her.  I used to do that all the
time; and matters most ususally got very, very painful for me.  I finally
learned 3 years ago that what i want is to truly know someone and to have
them committed to me and be exclusive with me -- and sex for me was 
a quick fix.  I always felt lousy the next morning, well maybe not
always, but many times my heart was broken.  When I figured it out,
after talking with a friend in who is in Sex Anonymous, I have abstained
from quick fixes in heterosexual relationships.

Greg, we all love you and send you hugs,

Starshine

Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: moiram@sacajawea.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Moira Mallison)
Subject: Re: i do it for myself
Reply-To: moiram@csc.ti.com
Organization: Computer Science Lab, Texas Instruments
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:19:44 GMT

Bill H. wrote:

> Today there is a twelve step program for just about any
> adiction or life problem that I can think of. So, now that I think
> of it, my answer is still the same. Do what it says in your basic
> text (mine was a Big Book)

Gabriel Decio writes:

>> >I mean this posting to be a friendly one.  I just do not understand
>> >how people with poor self-images and a devastating sense of
>> >powerlessness (over the self, that is) can enhance the very crux of
>> >their lives to seek recovery.
>> >

Terry Murphy responds:

>> Gabriel, I will accept this post under "you can't transmit what you
>> haven't got". Since I have no idea what ACoA believe, feel or pratice, and
>> would not assume I could discuss this matter, why can you call us "people
>> with poor self images and a devastating sense of powerlessness.

Terry, this is a great example of alcoholic egocentrism.  Gabriel
didn't call anybody "people with poor self images ...".  She was
responding to Bill's comment about how the 12 steps can be applied to
any life problem.  Her question was:  There are people with poor self
images ...  How do they bootstrap themselves enough to get into a
program of 12-step recovery?  (Especially, if one has a hard time with
the God part).

If the shoe doesn't fit, go find a different shoe.
 
>> The reason you can't figure us out is that you are not an alcoholic ( I
>> can only speak for me and not AA as a whole). Your comments are the same
>> is if I called all ACoA's whinning wimps with bad parents. 

She wasn't talking about trying to figure you out.  She was talking
about her difficulties in using the 12 steps in her own program of
recovery.  

I understand that for some people, the 12 steps in general and AA, in
particular, have saved their lives, and any hint that it is not the
optimum solution for someone else threatens your recovery.  But what
happens when you attack anyone who honestly questions the program,
even in an effort to gain more understanding of it, is that you make
this an unsafe place for those people to post.   I notice we haven't
heard a word from Christina since Jim P. blasted her a couple weeks
ago.

So maybe this is part of your plan.  Attack the dissenters and
alt.recovery will become alt.aa.  

Moira
From: anne@cco.caltech.edu (Anneliese Lilje)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Steps Six and Seven?
Keywords: forgotten
Date: 25 Jul 92 03:34:42 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena

In article <nvbmd!#.dhawk@netcom.com> dhawk@netcom.com (David Hawkins) writes:
>Let's see, did we discuss the Steps in order up to June and July?  ;-)
>Or, are Steps Six and Seven the forgotten Steps?
>
>Step Six: Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of
>character.
>
>Step Seven: Humbly asked Him [God] to remove our shortcomings.

Before I spill my guts, what is alt.recovery and what is it's purpose..?


anne
From: moy@acf3.NYU.EDU (Gloria J. Moy,N.DORM C3,(212)9983456,)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: eighth anniversary of dad's death
Date: 27 Jul 92 16:49:00 GMT
Organization: New York University

/* acf3:alt.support / moy@acf3.NYU.EDU (Gloria J. Moy,N.DORM C3,(212)9983456,) / 12:45 pm  Jul 27, 1992 */

Today is the eighth anniversary of my father's death. I have mixed
feelings about his death. Actually, I had a dream, that my sister had
gone back to the hospital to find out how my dad died and she was given
the run around by the nurses. Then she finally finds a doctor who is
trying to help...-then I woke up.  I'm angry at my dad, but I guess too,
I miss him alot. You know I never had a chance to make peace with him,
and to share (what today are my accomplishments) with him, seeking
his approval-something that I never got from him.

So thats whats happening in my life today.

/* ---------- */
Relay-Version: version nyu B notes v1.6.1 1/11/90; site acf3.NYU.EDU
From: moy@acf3.NYU.EDU (Gloria J. Moy,N.DORM C3,(212)9983456,)
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:26 EDT
Date-Received: 30 Jul 92 15:26 EDT
Subject: coming to seattle and need meeting info.
Message-ID: <42090021@acf3.NYU.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Posting-Version: version nyu B notes v1.6.1 1/11/90; site acf3.NYU.EDU
Organization: New York University

I'll be going to seattle in august and would like to know of meetings
in the area. i'll be staying the holiday inn crown plaza (where ever
that is) or a phone number of someone that i can connect with out there.
       

GLORIA MOY
NYU
251 MERCER STREET
NEW YORK, NEW YORK 10012
(212)998-3456
EMAIL MOY@ACF3.NYU.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: joni@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (joni.dunlap)
Subject: Re: Hello, I am a newbie
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:02:36 GMT

>
>>i used to hate to listen to people whine at meetings.  "life is so horrible"
>>"nothing good ever happens to me", "my shoelace broke","my spouse left me"
>>"i don't have any money" "i'm not famous".
>
>>i hated listening to that stuff so much that i would leave.
>
>>where is the discussion on recovery from alcoholism?
>>where is that good feeling of fellowship?
>>where is the recovery?
>>these were sick meetings, and these were sick people. i don't have time for
>>this crap!
>

I bring up the topic of gratitude and then everyone has to talk about
positive things. 

Another thing that I use on people that seem to be a broken negitive record
is talk about how I have a choice today as to how I want to live my day.
I can wake up and feel miserable or I can wake up and have a good day.
My reality is what I make of it. I am the only one who can change it.
I have a choice as to who I let rent space in my head. If X is pissing
me off, it is only because I'm allowing X to do that. You don't think X
is loosing any sleep over the way I feel. etc.

To some this is an revelation (sure was when I first heard it). To others
it brings them back to reality and they get off the pitty pot. To others
they just have to keep coming back.

And sometimes someone has to remind me!!

Joni :)
From: ssalter@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (-=[SLS]=-)
Subject: Re: RECOVERY!@???
Organization: OFSA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:34:35 GMT

moiram@csc.ti.com remarks:

>
>I've read five or six answers to this question, and they all point out the 
>obvious bias in this newsgroup.  The assumption that when someone is
>talking about recovery, they are talking about AA.   

I don't remember my exact wording when I posted but I mainly said,
take what you need and leave the rest, what is advice? , etc. Sure it
sounds like a 12 stepper but let's not assume!! *finger wagging*

EVERYone has an opinion, EVERYone has advice, best thing to do is just
listen to what you want to listen to, whether it is someones life
experience, someones FIRM plan on recovering, someones platitudes,
etc...and take what you want.

>
>Now it may be that Chris is an alcoholic, but there is no more in the
>request to indicate that than there is to indicate whether Chris is a
>man or a woman.

Good point Moira, I DO think (hastily changing hats) that any of the
platitudes/mottos/sayings/phrases-to-live-by that you quoted could be
used by anyone in any sort of recovery.
:

:)

Steven
Newsgroups: alt.recovery