HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 00:44:23 CDT
From:         Lynn Nelson <LHNELSON@UKANVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Additions to MALIN

As of 12 August, the following items were added to MALIN, and an
updated MALIN.CAT. was installed. If anyone has programs,
bibliographies, articles, or anything else that they think might
be of benefit to the public, please send them to LHNELSON@UKANVM.

To reach MALIN, enter FTP KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU. When connected,
enter CD DUA9:[MALIN], and enter DIR for a directory. We suggest
that you first GET a copy of MALIN.CAT, the descriptive
catalogue of the contents of MALIN.

MABECKER@UKANVM
LHNELSON@UKANVM
JGARDNER@UKANVM

CALNDR1.ZIP    117 K     DOS program for viewing medieval
                         calendars, mainly for Great Britain,
                         with a facility for creating your own
                         martyrology; several calendars included.
                         Courtesy of Juris Ledaka.

CALNDR2.ZIP    105 K     DOS program like the above, but more for
                         medieval Europe; also translates among
                         different kinds of medieval calendar
                         types. Courtesy of Juris Ledaka.

CALNDR3.ZIP    27 K      DOS calendar for viewing moveable
                         feasts. Courtesy of Christopher Currie.

LAWCODES.3     45 K      Full bibliographic citations of the
                         texts of over 250 law codes of cities,
                         towns, and municipal organizations,
                         primarily pertaining to Italy.  Courtesy
                         of Bob Laures, 8 August 1992.
EUR-PRES.1     34 K      Syllabus of a freshman survey in the
                         History of Europe from 1789 to the
                         present. Contains lecture schedule
                         geared to Perry, Volume 2, 3rd ed.,
                         Study questions, a midterm and final
                         examination. HIST 115 and HIST 101.
                         Courtesy of Jeff Gardner, May 1992
COMPMAN.TXT    37 K      The 4th edition of the Department of
                         History's computer and networking
                         manual. Restricted to directions on
                         ADDSVIEW terminals, IBM machines, and VM
                         environment.


                
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 08:07:24 EDT
From:         Tom Powers <TPOWERS@UNIVSCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Enslaved Scots

     A former student came to me yesterday requesting information on
a curious subject which he'd run across in a book. He'd read that,
after the battle of Culloden, the victorious British rounded up some
1000 Scottish prisoners and "sold them as slaves to Southern cotton
plantations."
     I don't know anything about this, though, of course, I'm familiar
with indentured servitude and the involuntary "transportation" of
convicts of all sorts. Still, the terminology "slaves" is curious, as
is the reference to "Southern cotton plantations." (Consider the
year.)
     Can anyone elaborate on this event, and can anyone help me
respond to my student's inquiry?
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:10:57 CDT
From:         U17801@UICVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Columbus Jewish?
              19 Aug 1992 19:38:16 GMT from <creps@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>

On Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:38:16 GMT Steve Creps said:
>In article <9208170829.aa20468@thama1.apgea.army.mil>
>ekfriedm@THAMA1.APGEA.ARMY.MIL writes:
>>     I've read at least one article (can't recall the source here at
>>     work) that supposed that Columbus' family may have left Spain
>>     during Christopher's childhood, owing to persecution, and that he
>>     returned as an adult, his non-Catholic origins well obscured.
>
>   I don't know how accurate that account is, but being able to return to
>Spain should not have had anything to do with "his non-Catholic origins
>[being] well obscured."  The Spanish expulsion of Jews under Ferdinand and
>Isabella was concerned only with religion, not ethnicity.  So there would
>be no reason that Columbus, a Christian, could not live in Spain, even if
>he were of Jewish descent.  In fact, there were even Catholic bishops in
>Spain at that time who were of Jewish descent.
>
>   I have read that the trouble between the Spanish rulers and many of the
>Conversos (Spanish Jews who converted to Christianity) was that rather than
>be expelled from Spain, they had (falsely) professed the Christian Faith;
>and so, once "converted," not only failed to live as Christians, but also
>proselytized other Conversos back to Judaism.  I believe these were known
>as "Judaizers."  The Conversos who had truly converted to Christianity had
>no such trouble, as far as I know.
>
>-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
>Steve Creps, Indiana University
>creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu

Steve: Although there are many interpretations and perspectives on the converso
s (and of course a seemingly endless bibliography), you're basically correct in
 your assertions.  For anyone looking for a good introduction to some of these
issues I would recommend Henry Kamen _Inquisition and Society in Spain in the S
ixteenth Century_ 1985. As for Columbus and his Jewish origins, from most every
thing I recall, this is a largely discredited theory, which as far as I know ha
s never been proven.

Renato Barahona (History)
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:55:22 CDT
From:         "A.J. Wright" <MEDS002@UABDPO.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Basic Training

I'm the one who made the request for B.T. items to be sent to me privately and
here's why. I didn't want to clutter up the list with something that might not
be useful to a number of people on it. I figured anyone else who wanted the
info could also contact me privately and I could forward stuff to them. Some
have and I have. Sheesh, no matter whatcha do, somebody is sure to complain...

Humor Impaired
meds002@uabdpo
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:30:21 BST
From:         Christopher Currie <c.currie@CLUS1.ULCC.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: demographic data

George:

You might do worse than look at the published reports of the 1901 Census. If
you have access to the *General Index to the Bills, Reports and papers...
presented by command 1900 to 1948-49* (H.M.S.O., 1960), you will find the
relevant reports listed on p. 561. But the meat is in the county reports,
which you may find indigestible.

Christopher
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Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 23:34:29 EDT
From:         Anne Kearney <JCCANNEK@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Dan Quayle, Wisdom of

A few months ago some kind person sent me a copy of the "Wisdom of Dan
Quayle" containing citations for his most famous gaffes.  It has been
accidentally delted.  I would appreciate a new copy.

Thanks, I will take better care of the next one.

ANNE KEARNEY
HISTORY PROGRAM
JEFFERSON COMMUNITY COLLEGE - UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY
109 EAST BROADWAY
LOUISVILLE, KY 40202
(502) 584-0181, EXT. 353
JCCANNEK@UKCC
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 09:29:26 -0500
From:         mlove@UX1.CSO.UIUC.EDU
Subject:      Re: bloch's new bio
Comments: To: History <HISTORY@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>

>speaking of which, has anyone seen the new biography of marc bloch?
>it was on the "scholars choice" table at the PCB, but someone else had
>already scarfed it up.

I have it, but I haven't had time to read it.  It is "Marc Bloch:  A Life
in History" by Carole Fink.  It is published in paperback by Canto (part of
Cambridge U. Press).  It was first published in 1989 and the Canto edition
is 1991 so it should still be in print and not too expensive (I note,
however, that no price is printed on the book, facilitating  price
increases down the line).

Sharon D. Michalove
Academic Advisor, Department of History, UIUC
309 Gregory Hall, 810 South Wright Street
Urbana, IL  61801
 217-333-4145
mlove@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu

********************************************************
See the kitten on the wall/Sporting with the leaves that fall
Wht intenseness of desire/In her upward eye of fire!
        	       	       	       	William Wordsworth
********************************************************
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 08:07:26 -0500
From:         mlove@UX1.CSO.UIUC.EDU
Subject:      Re: Basic Training
Comments: To: History <HISTORY@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>

even more basic training:

The Historian's Craft by Marc Bloch (Vintage paperback)

That Noble Dream by Peter Novick (Cambridge paperback)

Sharon D. Michalove
Academic Advisor, Department of History, UIUC
309 Gregory Hall, 810 South Wright Street
Urbana, IL  61801
 217-333-4145
mlove@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu

********************************************************
See the kitten on the wall/Sporting with the leaves that fall
Wht intenseness of desire/In her upward eye of fire!
        	       	       	       	William Wordsworth
********************************************************
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:28:02 -0500
From:         mlove@UX1.CSO.UIUC.EDU
Subject:      Re: Of cabbages and kings....
Comments: To: History <HISTORY@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>

>	Are there any musicologists on this list? I suspect that they
>would say that borrowing in music is done by most musicians.

My husband, who got his DMA in composition, tells me that there was quite a
vogue in the sixties for "quotation" music.  And of course
eighteenth-century composers borrowed from each other and from themselves
(Handel uses music from Messiah in orchestral pieces).  A classic example
of borrowing/quoting is the use of Luther's "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God"
by Bach and Mendelssohn.

Sharon D. Michalove
Assistant to the Chair for Undergraduate Affairs
Department of History, UIUC
309 Gregory Hall, 810 South Wright Street
Urbana, IL  61801
 217-333-4145
mlove@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu

********************************************************
See the kitten on the wall/Sporting with the leaves that fall
Wht intenseness of desire/In her upward eye of fire!
        	       	       	       	William Wordsworth
********************************************************
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Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 21:56:06 -0400
From:         "MARIO S. DE PILLIS" <AHAB000@UCSVAX.UCS.UMASS.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Columbus Jewish?
Comments: To: HISTORY%RUTVM1.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU

Bob Pasker--
Thanks for the Jacob Marcus Rader reference.  The Farrakhan use of the Jewish
alleged Jewish identity of Columbus is a new one to me.

Mario S. De Pillis
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 08:48:42 EDT
From:         Ken Koester <MAINT2@ERS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Of cabbages and kings....

On Thu, 20 Aug 1992 23:47:37 CDT Lynn said:
>Ken;
>
>Doesn't the canon Three G's also include Gluck and Gay?
>
>Probably not the latter, but I mentioned him because the phenomenal
>success of "The Beggar's Opera" brought both Gay and his producer, John
>Rich (at least I _think_ his name was John) both fame and fortune,
>making possible the excellent saying that "The Beggar's Opera" had made
>Gay rich and Rich gay.
>
I'm afraid I'd have to call Gluck Gluckless in the canon department, but Gay
is worth an honorable mention, just for the last phrase you mention!
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:12:19 METDST
From:         George Welling <welling@LET.RUG.NL>
Subject:      demographic data

After a nice holiday, we must get back to work. In my case it is finishing an
article I was writing about the migration of Domestic Servants at the turn of
the century in the Netherlands. Quite a lot of the dutch literature on the
subject simply parrots English publications. But the demographic situation of
Great Britain and the Netherlands was rather different. Can somebody give me
advise where I can quickly find data on British urbanisation around 1900 ?
--
                =
             ___|_____               George M. Welling
            /        __|____           phone : +31 50 63 54 74
       _|__         /      /             fax : +31 50 63 49 00
      /    /_______/______/                History and Computing  HCI
     /____/    | ______|__                 depart. ALFA-INFORMATICA
 _______|______|_\  o o o |              University of Groningen
      \  * o o o o o o o  |            welling@let.rug.nl
        \                 /
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 23:00:53 PDT
From:         bob pasker <bob@HALFDOME.SF.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Of cabbages and kings....
Comments: To: well!rutvm1.BITNET!history@uunet.UU.NET

>lynn writes:
>> I don't mean to embarass you in public, but BUBBA is a well-known acronym for
>> the famous "Three B's": Dietrich Buxtehude, Luigi Boccherini, and Ernest
 Ball.
>> :-)

agnes writes:
>Why are these B's "the famous Three B's" - Of the three names,  only
>Boccherini rings a bell...

sorry lynn, everyone knows the three Bs are: bach, beethoven, brahms,
bartok, and brubeck.

diderik buxtehude (1637-1707) is chiefly remembered (if at all) for
his organ works. ball is not listed in my brittanica, larousse, nor
osborne dicitonary of composers.

--
-- bob pasker
-- bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us
--
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 12:24:41 EDT
From:         Ken Koester <MAINT2@ERS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Of cabbages and kings....
              20 Aug 1992 01:34:35 -0400 from <kruchio@EPAS.UTOR ONTO.CA>

On Thu, 20 Aug 1992 01:34:35 -0400 Agnes Kruchio said:
>Lynn -
>I dont' think it would have embarrassed me, since it is obscure enough a
>reference  and I am considered rather well informed by friends and colleagues.
>One can't know everything.
>
>Why are these B's "the famous Three B's" - Of the three names,  only
>Boccherini rings a bell...
>
Buxtehude was a mid-1600's composer and organist; Bach in his youth walked 20
miles once to hear Buxtehude play.  Ball eludes me; I would have thought Bach
more in keeping with that company.
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 10:12:14 PDT
From:         bob pasker <bob@HALFDOME.SF.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: d'israeli (was Re: Colombus Jewish?)
Comments: To: well!rutvm1.BITNET!history@uunet.UU.NET

>> although pre-1880s jewery was comprised of both, ahistorical rumors
>> notwithstanding.
>Yes--that's why I used the qualifier, "primarily".

my apologies: i forgot a word.  that should be:

>> although pre-1880s AMERICAN jewery was comprised of both, ahistorical rumors
>> notwithstanding.

at about a 50/50 ratio.

--
-- bob pasker
-- bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us
--
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 09:04:00 EDT
From:         DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: d'israeli (was Re: Colombus Jewish?)

On Thu, 20 Aug 1992 11:43:19 PDT bob pasker <bob@HALFDOME.SF.CA.US> said:
>
> >Anglo-Jewry was primarily Sephardic in makeup until the
> >beginning of Ashkenazi immigration in the 1880s.
>
> although pre-1880s jewery was comprised of both, ahistorical rumors
> notwithstanding.
>
Yes--that's why I used the qualifier, "primarily".

Denis Paz
dgpaz@clemson.bitnet
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 08:11:54 -0400
From:         Agnes Kruchio <kruchio@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject:      The B's knees (was "Cabbages..")
Comments: To: HISTORY@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
              at Aug 20, 92 2:11 am

>
> Hello, Bob and Agnes;
>
> I am shocked! Trying to say that The Three B's are Bach, Beethoven, Brahms,
> Bartok, and Brubeck when that makes at least eleven (or nine, depending on how
>  you look at it).

Lynn - By my count, that's eight B's so far - your three and Bob's five.
The fact that he listed *five* B's and called them "three B's", plus
*your* "three B's" could conceivably be only be "six B's" at most.
Where does the eleven come from? Is this some sort of new math devised
especially by historians? Does it matter when these people lived and
where - maybe there was a  space/ time or calendar warp at that
particular place and time? Or do historians have their own peculiar
*method* of adding? (I've seen history books like that - dates
arranged by G-d knows what logic...)

>
> Osborne is a weak reed to rest your case upon. Osborne doesn't list the
> great Albert von Tilzer either, but I would wager that the works of
> Ernest Ball and Albert von Tilzer have been performed more often than
> all of your eleven (or nine) "Three B's" put together.

Lynn- I notice you STILL haven't enlightened us about the identity of the
other B's - these have not yet been fully revealed: the B's have been cut off
at the knees...Does that make it half a "B"? Half of "three B's?"...
So how many "B's" does *that* make the "three B's"? Do we kneed a
calculator for kneading the number of "B's"......?...

Agnes
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 10:35:00 EDT
From:         DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Of cabbages and kings....

Some months back, _Archaeology Magazine_ had a piece on Elvis
sightings, popular spirituality, and Jesus sightings. I'll try
to get the precise citation.
For white Southerners, Elvis long has been a saint.

Denis Paz
dgpaz@clemson.bitnet
From: DONWEBB@VM.UOGUELPH.CA (Don W.)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: _Sealed Room_ advertisement
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:46:47 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

As I recall, Mr. Werman submitted lengthy postings to the HUMANIST list
during the Gulf War, and _Sealed Room_ would seem to be an adaptation.

For what it's worth, my opinion: I much preferred Judy Koren's commentaries,
which she also sent from Israel to the HUMANIST list at the same time.
I found her accounts to be human and humane as well as enlightening.

For Mr. Werman, as I recall, the missile attacks seemed rather to offer
an occasion to express a certain political viewpoint that I do not share.
I am not surprised to see that the introduction was written by Gerald M.
Phillips.

However, others will like Mr. Werman's book and dislike Judy Koren for
the very same reasons that I dislike the one and like the other.

As for whether the book advertisement is suitable for the History list,
I'll suspend judgment.  I would be glad to see an announcement of a similar
book by Mrs. Koren, so I can't very well object to Mr. Werman's.

Don W. (DonWebb@vm.UoGuelph.CA)
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 14:41:24 EDT
From:         Lenny <LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: The B's knees (was "Cabbages..")
              21 Aug 1992 11:35:59 -0400 from <32WHEELER@CUA.BITNET>

What about Immambaaldi?

Lenny
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:38:47 -0400
From:         "MARIO S. DE PILLIS" <AHAB000@UCSVAX.UCS.UMASS.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Of cabbages and kings....
Comments: To: HISTORY%RUTVM1.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU

Lenny writes:
Mozart makes a much better saint than Elvis.

John Lennon was better than both.  He had gone into training for the role.

Mario S. De Pillis
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 11:03:29 MDT
From:         jsvilpis@ACS.UCALGARY.CA
Subject:      Re: Of cabbages and kings and ripoffs
              "DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITN

dgpaz@clemson.bitnet just said


> On Fri, 21 Aug 1992 11:39:16 -0400 32WHEELER@CUA.BITNET said:
> > the young Elvis ripped off the music of black artists
>
> Yes -- although  to call cultural borrowings "ripping off" may
> not be quite right.
>
> To my untrained ear, white gospel, black gospel, boogie woogie,
> and rhythm & blues sound like variations in the same musical
> family.
>
> Denis Paz
> dgpaz@clemson.bitnet
>

I think what's at issue is not so much "cultural borrowing" as a
personal desire to emulate some of the great black blues people
who were active in Memphis in the Fifties (Howlin' Wolf, Sonny
Boy Williamson, B.B. King, among many others) followed by a
commercial decision to record music by them and by contemporary
country songwriters.  The ripoff aspect was not (so far as I have
heard or read) a calculated thing on Presley's part; it was just
that God made the great blues artists black, so He must have
meant them to be exploited by white folks, no matter what poor
white trash they might be.  American folklore has many parallel
instances (the Lomaxes and Huddie Ledbetter, for one), and I'm
sure there are countless cases all over the cultural map.  That
may indeed be one of the reasons why white gospel, black gospel,
boogie woogie, and rhythm & blues have the feel of a single
musical family--but not a happy one.

Janis Svilpis
jsvilpis@acs.ucalgary.ca
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Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:47:21 CDT
From:         Don Mabry <djm1@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: _Sealed Room_ advertisement
Comments: To: HISTORY@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu

Both the Koren and the Werman diaries are archived on Ra.Msstate.Edu
in docs/history/diaries.
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 11:50:02 -0500
From:         "VALENTINE M. SMITH" <CDELL@UMKCVAX1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: "On the first anniversary..."

On the Russian "nationalities" issue, I can commend five fairly
recent books, one a "textbook":

1) The Hidden Nations, The People Challenge the Soviet Union From
Lithuania to Armenia, the Ukraine to Central Asia - Nadia Diuk and
Adrian Karatnycky (1990, William Morrow and Co.)

2) Time of Change, An Insider's View of Russia's Transformation - Roy
Medvedev and Giulietto Chiesa (1989, Pantheon Books). The most
marginal of the five to the nationalities question.

3) Let History Judge, The Origins and Consequences of Stalinism -
Roy Medvedev (revised 1989, Columbia university Press).

4) A History of Russia, 4th Edition -  Nicholas Riasanovsky (1963,
1969, 1977, 1984, Oxford University Press)

5) Soviet Disunion, A History of the Nationalities Question in the
USSR - Bohdan Nahaylo and Victor Swoboda (1990, The Free Press, a
branch of Macmillan, Inc.)

#5 and #1 probably most directly would answer many questions M.
Cosgrove and others might have, all five are useful. VMS
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 10:32:52 BST
From:         Christopher Currie <c.currie@CLUS1.ULCC.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: The B's knees (was "Cabbages..")

>
> Bach (Johann Sebastian, Karl Philipp Emanuel, and Johann Christian) makes
> three.

How about Wilhelm Friedemann Bach? I make that four.

Christopher
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