HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fsdlb1@acad3.alaska.edu
Subject: Re: Mentioning "God" on the radio
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:28:02 GMT

Since I have no idea about how to put parts of older messages into my post, I
can't put anything from the "Mentioning God..." in here.  Sorry.
  Anyway, I beleive the question was as to why Amy G. did not release 'Ask Me'
or other similar songs to mainstream radio.  The answer is related to the
agreements between Word records and A&M.  Word has responsibility for promoting 
Amy to the Christian market, and A&M has a similar job for mainstream.  In
other words,  Word DID release 'Ask Me' to Christian radio where, like most Amy
songs, it was quite succesful.  A&M decided that Amy's more pop-style music
would be more popular and have therefore not released this song (yet).  A&M may
still release 'Ask Me' to mainstream radio... then again maybe not.  Amy really
has no control of how the various company's market her product.  
  I've been able to see Amy in concert several times and she always makes it
quite clear that she is a Christian.  Also, I've yet to hear ANY secular DJ
refer to Amy as anything but "Popular Gospel Artist Amy Grant...".  So any
debate as to whether she has sold out or not is just plain dumb. 
Non-Christians are not stupid, they know perfectly well who Amy Grant is. 
  Even though I have not followed MWS as close as I have Amy (Hey, Amy Grant is 
MUCH cuter ;-) , I suspect that he is in much the same situation.
  Christian artists need our support and prayers my friends -- not second
guessing.  Shalom.

Derek
--- Watch this space for possible cute banner ---
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: jmrg9881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Reid)
Subject: Re: Other Christian newsgroups
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:56:14 GMT

martinez@megatest.UUCP (John Martinez) writes:

>Are there any other Christian newsgroups out there? I haven't seen
>another one as of yet.

There are at least 2:
 soc.religion.christian -- moderated (therefore slow turnover)
 bit.listserv.christia -- unmoderated

Blatant plug: I have been posting regularly to both newsgroups about Cell
Group Churches, a new paradigm of church life.
-- 
Jon Reid    j-reid@uiuc.edu    GEnie: THE.REIDS
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose."
Xref: sparky rec.music.christian:8514 alt.rock-n-roll.metal:11955 alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy:4444 alt.rock-n-roll.metal.progressive:299 alt.thrash:1888 alt.music.hardcore:379 rec.music.industrial:13485
From: cs40f003@hamlet.ucdavis.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian,alt.rock-n-roll.metal,alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy,alt.rock-n-roll.metal.progressive,alt.thrash,alt.music.hardcore,rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: Intermosh No. 14
Date: 17 Nov 92 02:49:42 GMT
Followup-To: rec.music.christian
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis

In article <1992Nov12.023030.16075@samba.oit.unc.edu> Phil.Powell@launchpad.unc.edu (Phil Powell) writes:
>
>I didn't get the chance to hear Veni Domine yet (they're on the same label
>as Living Sacrifice - R.E.X. Records) but I hear from others that they're
>along the lines of Seventh Angel and Detritus...
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^     ^^^^^^^^

Never heard any stuff by Seventh Angel, but I do have Detritus' cd.  They
sound nothing like Veni Domine.  Veni Domine is a very talented band, while
Detritus sounds like they need to go back to their garage and practice some
more.  Also, I would categorize Veni Domine as a progressive metal band;
Detritus is more in the speed/thrash category (and from what I hear, so is
Seventh Angel).
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Amy Grant's Old Xmas Album--Question
From: Young Indy <EMW107@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:26:24 EST
Distribution: na
Organization: Penn State University

   Yes, Amy's first Christmas album was released on CD. I have it, and have
seen it in stores, although I bought mine through BMG.

                                     -Ed

  =====================================================================
             Edwin 'Big Ed' Weiland - EMW107@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
            Architectural Engineering; Penn State University
 "There are two ways to be and truth does not depend on me." --King's X
  =====================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: Mark Wuest <mdw@trumpet.att.com>
Subject: Re: Kerry Livgren & Kansas (was Re: Rachel,Rachel)
Originator: mdw@cbnewsg.cb.att.com
Reply-To: Mark Wuest <mdw@trumpet.att.com>
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:34:17 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.200157.13065@news.eng.convex.com> moeller@convex.com (Tom Moellering) writes:
>I was at Target, and saw a new Kansas album, called: Kansas: Live at The
>Whiskey. With special appearances by Kerry Livgren.

>No I haven't heard it, and am curious if it would be worth my while to
>pick up.

OF COURSE you ought to pick it up so you can tell US what it's like!!!!

;-)

Mark
-- 
Mark Wuest                              |     *MY* opinions, not AT&T's!!
mark.wuest@att.com                      |
mdw@cheshire.att.com (NeXT Mail)        |
From: arthur.marsh@f812.n800.z3.fido.zeta.org.au (Arthur Marsh)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: alternative to Enya
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:12:31 GMT
Organization: Fidonet. Gate admin is fido@socs.uts.edu.au

Original to: ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com
On Thu 29 Oct at 14:53 ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com (3:713/602) wrote to All:

 a> Aside from the latest albums from Van Morrison, Mark 
 a> Heard, T-Burnett, Sam Phillips, and Bruce Cockburn, I've found it 
 a> to be the most spiritually uplifting music I've heard in the last 
 a> couple of years.  

 a> Andy Whitman

You haven't heard Seven Stories' "Judges and Bagmen" album (CBS/Sony) then?

--- msgedsq 2.1
 * Origin: Camelot Swamp MJCNA, Hawthorndene, Sth Australia (3:800/812)
From: vapspwi@prism.gatech.EDU (Jerry B. Ray, Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: What do you do when your child thinks Metallica is cool?
Date: 18 Nov 92 19:24:28 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <rrx1yrq@rpi.edu> mooras@rpi.edu writes:
>
>	Here is my low-down:
>	I believe music itself to be a vehicle. I pretty much think that music without a message (ie without lyrics) is neutral. Now when you put words to the music it changes everything. Then the music has a message, one that has every opportunity to be Biblically sound, and every opportunity to be utterly blasphemous and satanic. 
>	If music has lyrics with a message that is more or less positive than more power to'em. Bands like EXTREME and U2 are semi-good examples. Metallica however is a rotten example.

What makes U2 any better of an example than Metallica?  I love U2 and don't
particularly care for Metallica, for the record.  Back up your statements, don't

just fire off random comments without any justification.

(Wow, two flames to the same guy in one sitting.  Sorry, i'm having a really
bad week...)

JRjr

-- 
'Let's not pretend to justify, Rather amend where treasures lie.  Straight
through the heart peace can be found.  That's where you start, not all 
around...'  Extreme -- Rest In Peace
#####  vapspwi@prism.gatech.EDU  ########  Jerry B. Ray, Jr.  ################
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: hill@spot.Colorado.EDU (Michael Hill)
Subject: Re: CCM Urban Legend?  "A mighty Fortress" evolved a from drinking song
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:12:54 GMT

In article <1egn2pINNd21@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> anderson@cs.rose-hulman.edu writes:
>I have heard in many places that "A Mighty Fortress" and other great hymns
>were set to the tunes of popular drinking songs of their day.  The idea
>is very appealing to all of us who are into Christian rock and want to 
>justify it to those who would say it's "of the Devil" or whatever.
>
>Have any of you seen any evidence that this notion is more than a
>"CCM urban legend"?  Have you ever seen the name of the particular
>drinking song that some great hymn (in particular, "A Mighty Fortress") was  
>taken from?  Or is it just the generic "Many of the great hymnwriters took
>their tunes from bawdy bar songs" that we have heard so many times that we
>begin to accept it as truth?   

I have never claimed that "many hymnwriters..."; I have only stated on this
group that Martin Luther took the one hymn from a drinking song.  However -
I've been to his haunts in (former East) Germany twice, with a minister who
had studied Luther extensively.  As part of the history tour we were told
about this instance.  That's as much backing up as I can do off the cuff,
but I'm as sure as I can be of anything that this particular case is true.
I make no claims about any other cases.

If that's still not good enough, I guess I'll have to take valuable time
away from my studies and go look it up in the enclyclopedia.

>I used to believe the famous Jimi Hendrix quote about Phil Keaggy;  I had  
>heard it from so many places.  It seems clear now that this is a "CCM urban  
>legend".   Could the origin of the tune of "A Mighty Fortress" be one also? 

Not a chance, as far as I'm concerned.

>Claude Anderson

			--Michael

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Hill   <><  Isaiah 9:6 | "See the bread, see the wine
hill@spot.Colorado.EDU         |  See the graft into the vine
                               |  This is what is to be
University of Colorado@Boulder |  It always made sense to me"
$ mv net.flames /dev/null      |                     --King's X, "Shot of Love"
-------------------------My boss is a Jewish carpenter!------------------------
Did you ever notice that everybody in favor of abortion has already been born?!
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 16:08:27 EST
From: <MVO100@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Lanny Cordolla CD?

Has anyone seen the christian guitarist Lanny Cordolla's CD? It is called
( I think) Electric Warrior, Acoustic Saint. It is mainly, if not all
instrumental. Thanks in advance to anyone that can help.
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: piet@cs.ruu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Subject: Re: Catholic music
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 10:52:25 GMT
Reply-To: piet@cs.ruu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Utrecht University, The Netherlands
Keywords: Catholic, Talbot

>>>>> tony@microware.co.uk (Tony Mountifield) (TM) writes:

TM> You might want to check out music from the Taize' Community (pronounced
TM> tezzay). Sorry, I don't know any titles.

Not that it matters much, but Taize' is not Catholic (at least not Roman
Catholic - which I think was meant in the subject title - please no wars on
the meaning of the term Catholic). It is interdenominational (both
catholics and protestants).
-- 
Piet* van Oostrum, Dept of Computer Science, Utrecht University,
Padualaan 14, P.O. Box 80.089, 3508 TB Utrecht, The Netherlands.
Telephone: +31 30 531806   Uucp:   uunet!mcsun!ruuinf!piet
Telefax:   +31 30 513791   Internet:  piet@cs.ruu.nl   (*`Pete')
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: What do you do when....
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:05:05 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1e8l8fINNe8a@transfer.stratus.com> markc@eomer.hw.stratus.com (Mark Christensen) writes:
>>I would be interested in hearing what you think is acceptable music.  By your
>>interpretation of those verses, no music that was similar, or based on, any
>>worldly music is acceptable.  What is left?

I would echo this question.  You've let us know why you find all rock music
unacceptable; what music would be acceptable to you as reflecting Christian
values?

>Rock music is, indeed, music that the world enjoys, encompasses, propogates,
>and uses for many purposes...in many cases to promote Satanism, anti-
>Christian behavior, sexual immorality, homosexuality, murder and other
>violence, etc.  This music is accepted by the world, and is thus, worldly.

Well, couldn't this argument also be applied to folk music?  Or country? 
Even opera?  They all contain plenty of positive
references to sexual immorality, murder, violence, etc.  Christians
throughout history have taken popular musical forms and made them into
hymns of worship -- our hymnals are full of them.    

The same could also be applied to books -- does this mean we shouldn't
read books?  You could definitely argue that it might not be wise to read
_some_ books, just as it's probably not wise to listen to _some_ songs. 
If some mysteries glorify violence and sexual debauchery, does that mean
one should not read all mysteries?  Fiction is often used by authors to
promote stands antithetical to the Bible; should we not read all fiction?

Why, then, do you make the point that because some rock promotes
ungodliness, all rock is forbidden?

As I see it, the only part of your argument against Christian rock music 
that holds up is where you say that if it causes you to sin, don't do
it.  That I heartily agree with.


-- 
The trick of reason is to get the imagination to seize the actual world --
if only from time to time.     -- Annie Dillard, "An American Childhood"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
From: nauman@Pt.hq.af.mil (Stratton D Nauman)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: What do you do when your child thinks Metallica is cool?
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:31:52 GMT
Organization: Headquarters Air Force, The Pentagon Washington, DC

crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:

>In article <nauman.721919816@hq> nauman@Pt.hq.af.mil (Stratton D Nauman) writes:

>>4.  Forbid them to listen to Secular music.

>Lets hope your kids don't develop a taste for Mozart or Lawrence Welk. 
>Particularly the latter.

Ahha :)  Caught me there.  I should have explained exactly what I meant
by the term.. "Secular Music".

Premise:  Music, that played by intruments, is in and of itself Amoral,
having no moral bearing, and being neither right nor wrong.  Thus... One
couldnt say  "That NOTE just played by that synthesizer is Sinful!"

That having been said, I submit to you, that Lyrics, that which is "sung"
or the "words" of the music are INHERENTLY moral, and that they can be
used for both good or for evil.  Theres more to this subject, but 
condensing it down, thats the bottom line.

Thus, Music I think for the purposes of this argument, could be broken
down into 3 catagories:

1.  Christian Music:  Music that has either Christian Lyrics, Music
without lyrics written for the glory of God, or both Combined.  Both
J.S. Bach, and Sandi Patty would fall into this catagory.  As would
Handels Messiah, and Carmen.

2.  Amoral Music:  Music, which has no words, or lyrics.  Most Classical,
and even some Jazz, Big Band, elevator Music and so on, are in this
catagory.

3.  Secular Music.  Music, which has lyrics that are *not* written
to the glory of God.  Or, even worse, are absolutely written against
God.  Have a hard time giving examples, since Im not sure who all the
groups are out there (having completely cut this catagory out of my
life years ago).  Madonna comes to mind.  Even *I* know who *she* is!

Ok. I realize that I generalized a whole bunch, but had to due to
space and time limitations.  Please, there are some grey areas in
between each catagory.. not many, but Im sure someone could find 
*something* :)

That said, I absolutely prohibit catagory 3 music from being listened
to in my house.  Notice, Lauren... Most of Mozart, and Lawrence Welk
band music would fit into catagory 2. No problem :)

Regards,

Dave.

reply to: nauman@hq.hq.af.mil

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer)
Subject: Re: God *is* a Republican (was: Hymns)
Date: 23 Nov 92 07:35:53 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Nov21.055345.1544@meaddata.com> dlovely@meaddata.com (David Lovely) writes:
>I agree that God is not either Republican or Democrat. 

Good for you!
 
>I was sorry to hear that this poster voted for Clinton.  Clinton was backup up by the
>pro-abortion, homosexual, pornography, and anti-religious, lobbies.  

However...

Please to not assume that all christians are anti-choice, or even
anti-abortion.

Or that all christians are anti-homosexual (of the Hitler type or
the "moderate, forgiving, just as long as you turn yourself into
a heterosexual" type).

Or that all christians assume that separation of church and state
is bad.

Or that all christians think that the Song of Solomon has no business
being in the bible.

You may think I'm trying to start a flamewar; I know this post
contains, for many of the rec.music.christian crowd, many inciderary
ideas.  That's not why I'm posting.

I'm posting this to suggest a little tolerance. A little recognition
that you aren't God, that you don't know total right from wrong, and
that while you are trying to be the best you you can be (hopefully
with Jesus' help) that you have NO right to decide how I can be the
best me I can be.  
 
-jen
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: caw@gtech.com (Christopher A. White)
Subject: Re: What is art?  (was: What do you do when your child thinks Metallica is cool?)
Organization: GTECH Corporation, West Greenwich, RI
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:33:03 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.170043.21963@cbnews.cb.att.com> ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.j.whitman) writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.215619.9395@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> crow@coos.dartmouth.edu (Preston F. Crow) writes:
>>caw@gtech.com (Christopher A. White) writes:
> 
>>>I've brought this up before, too, but what constitutes Good art/bad art?
>>>I'm with Tolstoy on his universality theory, namely, that the more effort
>>>or education that is required to appreciate a piece of art, the less
>>>likely it is that it is art. 
> 
>>I would tend to disagree here.  I find that the more of a challenge a
>>song is to understand, the more I enjoy it.  The songs that I listen to
>>the most are the ones that I have trouble understanding.  Once I know
>>what's being said or can fully anticipate the music, I am no longer as
>>excited about the song.
>
>I agree. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that Tolstoy's universality
>theory is no longer valid, or at least universally applicable :-).  
>Tolstoy was writing for a fairly homogeneous society.  His words would
>have only been read by the educated upper-class members of Russian society.
>Since old Vladimir down on the potato(e) farm probably couldn't even read,  
>he obviously wouldn't have been aware of or cared about Uncle Leo's
>theories, or, for that matter, about art in general.  The "universe" in 
>the universality theory was a very small and select one. 

I'd have to disagree most emphatically. Tolstoy's universality theroy
was an expanded artistic universe. In his essay on the subject, he 
talked about language and translation as well as culture. To him, the
truest piece of art in literature was the story of Joseph and the many
colored coat. As he said, [paraphrased] "in any language and in any
culture, we understand what the egyptian woman meant when she says 
'Come to me.' We understand the significance of his refusal." To 
Tolstoy, it was important that people of other cultures could understand
his writings in transalation; it was also important to him that the
*story* could still be carried, with it's significance, without the
words (oral tradition). 

Romeo and Juliett is a story of such basic tragedy that it is universally
embraced. In Shakespere's or without, the story looses little of it's
force. Presented on stage, read, or simply related in it's outline form,
we see the intended purpose, and we understand and feel the sadness.


Topher
-- 
 Christopher A. White                    | 
 caw@gtech.com                           | Free will is largely overrated. 
 GTech Corporation, West Greenwich, RI   | 
 The opinions expressed are mine alone   |           - Topher
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: alan@elroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Alan S. Mazer)
Subject: Re: TANGENT: "We Will Stand" stolen by Clinton
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:57:53 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.021301.50@uoft02.utoledo.edu> jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner) writes:
>>    
>>     I think Andy and those like him need to either find peace with 
>>     themselves and with their fellow brothers in Christ, or find 
>>     another net sub to post on, because I for one am sick of 
>>     hearing their hypocrosy.
>
>here's one dissenting vote.

Here's another.  Andy is a breath of fresh air.  There is good judgment and
wrong judgment and the post above is clearly the latter.  Keep posting Andy.
-- 
 
-- Alan                        # Mountain Dew and doughnuts...
   ..!ames!elroy!alan          # because breakfast is the most important meal
   alan@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov     # of the day.
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: fct@swlvx2.msd.ray.com (FRED THOMPSON)
Subject: Second recommendation for Bride album "Snakes in the Playground"
Keywords: Bride Rock
Organization: Raytheon Company, Tewksbury, MA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:36:18 GMT

Well, after hearing so many good reviews of the new Bride album, I stopped
at the Christion Book and Supply store in Burlington Mass. (great prices)
and picked up a copy. The first song, Rattlesnake, starts the album off 
with a bang. It's a great album, all the way through. They have a sound 
like Guns And Roses, with a little AC/DC thrown in. Now, if they would just
have a show up here in New England, that would be even better. 

One thing that would be nice for this group would be if people could say who
a band sounds like (ie: Deliverance is like Metallica, etc.). We don't
have any radio stations around here that play Christian Rock, so a lot is
just a shot in the dark on if you'll like a band. The store mentioned above is
nice in that they have a lot of tapes and a tape player (with headphones) off
to the side, so you can listen to some artists before buying, but some stuff
they don't have demos of.
-- 
Fred Thompson,   ...!ulowell!swlvx2!fct  or  fct@swl.msd.ray.com
Raytheon Co,     Missile Systems Division, Tewksbury, Mass. 01876
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:12:36 EST
From: <WJS116@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: BRIDE and WHITECROSS concerts

Whitecross will be at the King's Place on December 5.  The concert
starts at 7:30.
From: sdstpk@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (the bearded one)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Galactic Cowboys, Extreme and King's X
Date: 21 Nov 1992 16:16:53 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

vapspwi@prism.gatech.EDU (Jerry B. Ray, Jr.) writes:

> 
>Try _listening_ to their music.  Even More Than Words, which gets loads
>of airplay, is more than just a 'Sleep with me or i won't love you anymore'
>song (sorry Jason, but we've been over that...).   Read the Heaven's Metal
>interview, which i refuse flatly to summarize to the net YET AGAIN.  Check
>out their new album, which is full of direct and indirect Scripture references
>(in context, even...), and features both excellent vocals and excellent
>musicianship, without even a hint of lethargic droning.

Okay, Jerry.  Whatever.  Like I stated, I'm not complaining about their musical
style, I'm complaining about their lyrics.  I will try and find the copy of
Heaven's Metal which explores the endless spiritual boundries of Extreme, but
I'm not holding my breath for much of a surprise.  I've had to listen to that
song more than I care to mention due to its massive airplay.  If they're
trying to get a message across besides 'Sleep with me or I won't love you 
anymore', they missed the mark; otherwise, the song wouldn't be so widely
misunderstood.  You can't expect the entire radio audiance to rush out and
pick up the latest magazine to hear what these songs are supposedly saying.

-Stephen

-- 
"Just once, I wish we would encounter an alien menace that wasn't
immune to bullets"                          |  Stephen Spencer
		--the Brigadier "Dr. Who"   |  sdstpk@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
                                            |  Kansas State University