HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lizard@hermes.chpc.utexas.edu (Tom Linsley)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Smith model 27 wear
Date: 15 Oct 92 23:58:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: chpc.1992Oct15.153555.24375
Organization: The University of Texas System CHPC

In article <7277.78.uupcb@cutting.hou.tx.us>, jim.wray@cutting.hou.tx.us (Jim Wray) writes:
# 
# I'd bet that the scratching comes from the hand. That's the little gizmo that
# "times" the cylinder and ensures that it is in the right position WRT the
#                                                                             

Well, no, not quite.  The hand or pawl is the little gizmo that sneaks out of its
slot in the backplate and rotates the cylinder.  What you are describing is the
cylinder stop (S&W lingo) or bolt (Colt), which pops up from under the cylinder
and locks it in place after rotation.  I have never seen a revolver (and I have
owned a whole lot of them) which was so perfectly timed that the bolt did
not leave some trail on the cylinder.

This little scratch is annoying but harmless.  The stop has got to move down in
order to release the cylinder to rotate, but then has to pop back up again and
be there in time to meet up with the next slot.  If it gets back up there early
(as most do) it rides the outside of the cylinder (making the scratch) until
it pops into the slot and locks the cylinder.

A "quick and dirty" timing test is to cock the revolver slowly while resting
the left thumb lightly on the cylinder so as not to allow it to build up
momentum as it rotates.  The stop should lock the cylinder just as or just
before the hammer locks into cocked position.  If the cylinder locks before
the sear engages, a "hump" will be felt just at the end of the hammer travel,
since the hammer is still pushing the hand and trying to rotate the cylinder
which has already been locked into place.

-- 
Tom Linsley              tom@sparta.bus.utexas.edu  :  NRA  ILA  TSRA
College of Business Administration Computer Center  :  NFA     CCRKBA
The University of Texas, Austin, Texas 78712   USA  :  (512) 471-5446
From: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu (John Stephens Cronin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Commercial 9x18 Makarov
Date: 15 Oct 92 23:58:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: hydra.71330
Organization: Common Container Liberation Front


In article <9210141804.AA04947@leland.Stanford.EDU> loia@leland.Stanford.EDU (David Loia) writes:
#Is there a commercial manufacturer of JHP in 9x18mm Makarov ?
#
#I am looking for more choices in ammo other than Norinco
#FMJ ammo for this overlooked caliber.

JHP would only make you feel more secure mentally, in my opinion.
9mmx18 Makarov is only slightly more powerful than .380, and certainly
not as powerful as 9mmx19 Nato.  What this means is that a hollowpoint
is unlikely to expand.  I am not sure how much of an over-penetration
hazard the 9mm Mak FMJ round presents, but out of the 3.75" barrel I
would hazard a guess it is not much.  It may even be that, like .380,
penetration is marginal at best anyway, and thus the extra-penetration
afforded by the FMJ round (however little extra that might be) is an
advantage, not a disadvantage.

John Cronin
From: jim.wray@cutting.hou.tx.us (Jim Wray)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Smith model 27 wear
Date: 15 Oct 92 12:16:25 GMT
Organization: The Cutting Edge - Houston, TX - 713-466-1525

FC>puzzles me is the wear to the bluing: About 1/4" from the front
FC>end of the cylinder, at the side edge of the grooves (I forget
FC>what the're really called...) and in a small spot exactly between
FC>these grooves. As far as I can tell, this part of the cylinder
FC>never contacts _anything_, although it is under a old, empty screw hole
FC>in the frame (from a scope mount I got rid of.) So I'm at a loss
FC>to understand why the bluing should be wearing there and not anywhere
FC>else...

I'd bet that the scratching comes from the hand. That's the little gizmo that
"times" the cylinder and ensures that it is in the right position WRT the
forcing cone. The hand retracts as the cylinder begins it's rotation for
the next shot. About halfway through it's movement, the hand extends via
spring pressure rubbing against the smooth part of the cylinder until it
aligns with one of the cylinder depressions to lock the cylinder in place.
It is this rubbing that is wearing the blueing...nearly *every* revolver
will do this to one degree or another. You can see the hand which will
be located in the bottom of the frame extended into in the space between
the side of the cylinder and the bottom of the frame.
---
 . OLX 2.2 . There is no way they can get over here!        A. Maginot
From: kdw@icd.ab.com (Kenneth D. Whitehead)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Question Re:  CCW Requirements in Ohio
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:21:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: icd.1992Oct9.132749.1926
Organization: Allen-Bradley Company, Inc.

Can anybody out there give me the lowdown on CCW permits in Ohio, e.g.
how do I get one, restrictions, etc.?


Thanks


Ken Whitehead
kdw@icd.ab.com
From: KEVIN@MSUS1.MSUS.EDU (Kevin Whyte)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: FFL.  Is it worth the trouble?
Date: 14 Oct 92 12:08:50 GMT

Is it worth it?  For a person that is a recreational shooter who wouldn't mind
some of the bargains in shotgun news and does some reloading is the savings
worth the hassle of getting a FFL?

a couple of related requests for e-mail.  If someone already has something
typed up in electronic form about what is required for an FFL could you send me
a copy?  Also for you Minnesota Netter's out there (specifically Minneapolis
area) do you know of any FFL holders that will ship or recieve something for a
fair fee?

Kevin
kevin@msus1.msus.edu
From: rmorrow@afit.af.mil (Robert K Morrow)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .40 S&W Help Sought
Date: 11 Oct 92 23:13:18 GMT
Organization: Air Force Institute of Technology

In article <9210092028.AA01615@dg-rtp.dg.com> meyers@leonardo.rtp.dg.com (Bill Meyers) writes:
#In article <1992Oct5.082904.7268@netcom.com> tmi@netcom.com (Peter Alan Kasler) writes:
#[ ... ]
##	One should "tap" or push the back of the slide (to attempt to
##seat it fully into battery) only with extreme care, and with very
##little pressure. If the slide won't go into battery with only very
##slight forward pressure, forcing it there with more pressure is likely
##to create problems of greater magnitude than getting rid of whatever
##is (not quite) in the chamber by employing "tap-rack-bang".
#
#A fellow at a local range was shooting a Glock with handloads that
#wouldn't always chamber properly, and would ram the slide home with
#the heel of his hand and try again, whenever he got a misfire.  An
#hour or so of this, and he'd managed to knock off the rear sight.
#(It's made of high-strength polymer, of course, and dovetailed into
#the slide in the usual way.  A metal one might have taken it, but ...)

This problem with handloads happened to me also; it's a result of
not crimping the case mouth down to its original diameter.

	- Bob
From: tighe@convex.COM (Mike Tighe)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: How much for a mint Uzi?
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:23:58 GMT
Organization: Convex Computer Corporation, Richardson, Texas

bgolden@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Brian Golden) writes:

#With the executive ban on importation of "assault weapons", we have
#seen the prices of these weapons skyrocket in the recent past.  A friend
#of mine is a dealer and a fellow dealer has an Uzi pistol for sale.  He's
#asking around $1300, and my dealer friend says that it is in mint condition
#(less than a couple hundred rounds, babied).  That seems a little high

Seems VERY HIGH to me. But these prices are based on market availability.
Where you have restrictive gun laws, the supply will be low, and the price
high. Here is a "Gun Show" price list for what I have seen at D/FW shows.

Semi-Auto:
----------
Micro-Uzi   -  $495 NIB
Mini-Uzi    - $1000 Used
Uzi-A       -  $850 NIB/Mint
Uzi-B       -  $800 NIB/Mint
HK-91       -  $950 NIB
HK-94       - $1395 NIB
AR-15       -  $700 NIB
AR-15/clone -  $500 NIB
Glock-17    -  $379 NIB
92-FS       -  $420 NIB
S&W 686     -  $320 NIB
SKS         -   $79 Used (by Chinese; new to US)
TEC-9       -  $155 NIB

Class3:
-------
HKMP5D      - $3500 9with suppressor), Used/Mint
Uzi         - $3000 Used/Mint
-- 
Mike Tighe, (214) 497-4206
tighe@convex.com
From: mkilpela@mtu.edu (Mark E. Kilpela)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: TC contender cartridge adapters
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:42:35 GMT
Organization: Michigan Technological University

I am interested in finding chamber adapters for my 35 rem. contender so I
could shoot either .357, 9mm,or .38 in the .35 rem barrel.  I've seen them
years ago but haven't seen them since.  The reason for this is, at our
range, the max load that can be shot is 10 mm. (rules for sound problems/
swimming pool near by)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark E. Kilpela       email mkilpela@mtu.edu  #906-487-2264
Michigan Technological University 
School of Technology
Home of the Huskies
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky rec.guns:14137 talk.politics.guns:22017
From: rtaraz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Carry around the country (new)
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:48:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: bigwpi.RTARAZ.92Oct12110535
Followup-To: talk.politics.guns
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280


A while ago I asked about a way to carry my pistol around the country
on my motorcyle.

Thanx to many people who responded, I now know that I can carry it if:

1. I have a permit for every state that I pass through (impossible)
2. carry it unloaded in a locked case
3. take it apart  and carry the parts in different compartments.

My only reason to carry my piston with me was for protection reasons,
just in case that I need to protect myself in the country side.  If
the gun is unloaded, locked, or taken apart it would be a lot of help!
(maybe I should post this to i.f.p also.)  

What do have to do to get some protection around this country!? 

Thanx again for all your responses.

rtaraz@wpi.wpi.edu
From: jimfost@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Jim Foster)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: NAvy Seals and Barett Sights
Date: 11 Oct 92 23:13:24 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University

miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant) writes:


#Anyone remember the movie that came out a few years back about a couple
#of LA cops who flew this ultra-modern helicopter? I can't think of the name
#right now, but at the beginning of the movie there is a disclaimer that
#says "the weapons and technology depicted in this film are real and in use
#today" or something to that effect. Ay any rate, in the film there was a
#scene that showed the cops eaves-dropping on some "bad guys" inside a building.
#I also seem to remember them showing some sort of "sight" that also showed
#"images" of men as they moved behind a wall.
#Anyone else remember this movie, or any more details?

The movie in question is _Blue Thunder_ starring Roy Scheider and ....er, someone else.
This film was also the basis of a short-lived TV series, one of the multitude of 'super-vehicle' series that were so popular in the mid-Eighties. I have no idea whether the technology was/is real or not, but it seemed far fetched at the time...expecially the 'stelath mode' on the helocpoter.


-- 
Jim Foster                [   Everything I say is at the specific behest of   ]
jimfost@matt.ksu.ksu.edu  [   Kansas State University and represents their    ]
Kansas State University   [   official position on the subject.               ]
From: kozowski@ohsu.EDU (Eric Kozowski)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock adoption (Portland Mystery)
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:20:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: ohsu.1992Oct9.001751.24223
Organization: Oregon Health Sciences University

In article <199210081708.AA106142@ns1.CC.Lehigh.EDU> ka02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu  
(Kent P. Aitchison) writes:

# What does this phrase mean?  Do Portland's finest have trouble keeping
# fingers
# out of the trigger guard on reholstering?  Unable to master their own 
# weapons?

There has been only one AD and that was at the range. 

# I have a hard time believing that the weapons are doing anything but
# functioning true to their design.

A good friend of mine is a detective with the PPD and told me about it a couple  
of months ago.  I remember him telling me that they had a glock factory armorer  
come out and do somthing to ALL their glocks.  I can't remember why they are  
getting rid of them, but I'll ask him tonight.  The PD is buying back all the  
glocks from the officers that wan't to get rid of them.  This is after they  
made it mandatory for the officers to purchase them.  Like I said, I'll find  
out more tonight.
 
# Sorry to harp, but this smells of something from the unsubstantiated gossip
# and rumors department.

Not intentional.  I have nothing against the glock.  It seems to be ok, but  
doesn't fit my hand real well.  Heck, I almost bought one.

--
Eric Kozowski                | System/Network Administrator
kozowski@ohsu.edu            | Oregon Health Sciences University
			     | 840 SW Gaines Rd GH113
503/494-4537                 | Portland, Oregon 97201
From: jimfost@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Jim Foster)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Astra vs Witness
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:54:42 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University

C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:

#A few days later I had a gun magazine out.  My wife pointed to the
#cover and said, "That's not a bad looking gun."  She was pointing
#to a Sig P228.

At least you've married a woman with taste!

#BTW, I know 25 year anniversary is silver.  What's the 5 year
#anniversary?  I know it's not guns...8-)

I think the 5-year Anniversary is your Lead Anniversary. Get her a relaoding set-up ;)

Silversmith

-- 
Jim Foster                [                                                   ]
jimfost@matt.ksu.ksu.edu  [    "Joel, are human beings *really* like this?"   ]
Kansas State University   [                                                   ]
From: feustel@netcom.com (David Feustel)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: States Granting Nonresident CCWs?
Date: 7 Oct 92 12:59:44 GMT
Organization: DAFCO: OS/2 Software Support & Consulting

Several posters have indicated that some states grant CCW permits to
nonresidents? Which states do this and how does one get these permits?
I'd love to have a CCW permit from each of these states!
-- 
Dave Feustel N9MYI <feustel@netcom.com>
 
[.sig on vacation]
From: pes3@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Paul Eric Stoufflet)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: NAvy Seals and Barett Sights
Date: 11 Oct 92 06:01:44 GMT
Organization: Columbia University

In article <9210100144.aa10817@s.s.ms.uky.edu> miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant) writes:
#Anyone remember the movie that came out a few years back about a couple
#of LA cops who flew this ultra-modern helicopter? I can't think of the name
#right now, but at the beginning of the movie there is a disclaimer that
#says "the weapons and technology depicted in this film are real and in use
#today" or something to that effect. Ay any rate, in the film there was a
#scene that showed the cops eaves-dropping on some "bad guys" inside a building.
#I also seem to remember them showing some sort of "sight" that also showed
#"images" of men as they moved behind a wall.
#Anyone else remember this movie, or any more details?
#One more thing I remember is that the helicopter also had a "quiet" mode.
#That is, the engine could be put into a "quiet mode".

The movie was "Blue Thunder" with Roy Scheider (sp?)  I think that there is
a difference between the technology existing and being as refined as presented
by Hollywood.

I heard that the Whisper Mode was a complete fabrication.  My brother, who
works at Bell Helicopters, has not heard of any Stealth helicopters (or
if he has, he isn't talking)


  / \ / \     Paul Stoufflet                          / \ / \
 |  / \  |    Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center   |  / \  |
 |  \ /  |    internet: pes3@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu  |  \ /  |
  \_/_\_/     All opinions are my own                 \_/_\_/
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Bersa 83 vs. 383A
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:21:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: mimsy.9210091151.AA18227

Could someone tell me the difference between the Bersa Model 83 and
Model 383A?  Their descriptions read the same, but the 383A is priced
lower, and it appears to have a slide release or takedown lever,
whereas the 83 does not.

The 383A is on my want list - not for any particular reason, but
because I like the way it looks...

Rob
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock trigger pull
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:54:38 GMT
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.

In article <1992Oct6.025918.27915@netcom.com> messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk) writes:

#In what respect?  I am not sure I see what you mean... 
#The way I see it (and feel when I shoot it :) it is a consistent
#trigger pull, same from first through each following shot (just
#like DAO), it is a little shorter than most DAOs I've seen which
#is GOOD in my book, and it is also easily adjustable to the weight
#you feel comfortable with, 5 lb, 8lb, 11lb.
#
#All of the revolvers are pretty much the same, all of the DAOs are
#pretty much the same - could you explain for me why you feel the
#trigger pull is a safety concern on a Glock? 

This has been discussed quite a bit recently, but to make a fast
summary: the glocks have a shorter and lighter (at least with the stock
5 lbs.) pull than any revolver or DAO.  It's closer to that of a cocked
SA or DA pistol.  Some people, like Frank, think it's just a little too
short and light to be a safe carry gun without an external safety or
decocker.  One of the heavier triggers might alleviate their concern.

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@tti.com  (that's MISTER reid@tti.com to you!)
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
From: lvc@cbvox1.att.com (Lawrence V Cipriani)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Lead-Safe ammo by Pro-Load
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:43:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnews.1992Oct8.144159.4268
Organization: Ideology Busters, Inc.

One manufacturer of lead free ammo is:

PRO LOAD Ammunition, Inc.
1120 S. Varney St.
Burbank,  CA  91502
818-842-6978

Product line: "Lead Safe"
Calibers available:  38/357, 45ACP, 38 Super, 10mm, 9mm
Price: ~$11.50/box

Their product has passed tough California EPA (or OSHA ?!?) standards for
indoor ranges.

I don't know if they sell primers as a stand alone product.  I've read in
gun magazines these primers are less sensitive than standard lead-styphnate
primers so you could end up with some misfires.

They are recommended for practice, but not for your standard self-defense
load.  Of course you should practice with your standard self-defense load
too to make sure it functions reliably in your weapon ...

I have no affiliation with this company; not even as a customer.
-- 
Larry Cipriani, att!cbvox1!lvc or lvc@cbvox1.att.com
From: lriggins@afit.af.mil (L. Maurice Riggins)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: CCW Requirements, Ohio
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:21:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: afit.1992Oct9.111615.3545
Organization: Air Force Institute of Technology

In article <1992Oct8.150946.7006@icd.ab.com> kdw@icd.ab.com (Kenneth D. Whitehead) writes:
#Can anybody give me the lowdown on what's required to get a CCW
#in Ohio?

There is no provision in Ohio law for concealed carry licenses.  Concealed
carry is flat against the law in at least two parts of the revised code.
Ohio does have what is called "affirmative defense".  Basically, after
being arrested, the DA (or the judge and jury) can determine that you
were taking reasonable action by carrying because you were having to go
into a threatening situation.  It's a true "guilty until proven innocent"
situation and is a second degree (if I remember correctly) FELONY.
In practice, DA's don't prosecute if you are carrying large sums of money
for night deposit.  However, the minute you drop that bag in the bank, 
you have to unload and store the weapon locked out of reach of car passengers.

I posted the code here sometime back.  Talk to your local DA on this one.

-- 
Maurice               INTERNET:  lriggins@afit.af.mil
From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Need tips for gun cleaning...
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:05:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: ke4zv.1992Oct14.155829.25941
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <9210121933.AA04707@network.ucsd.edu> mbh@sdphu1.ucsd.edu (Matt Harrington) writes:
#I have a Ruger GP-100 revolver in stainless steel.  I follow the
#instructions for cleaning, but I can't seem to get it as clean as it
#should be.  This is especially apparent where the cylinder meets the
#barrel.  I'll summarize my technique below so that more experienced
#people can offer criticism and suggestions:
[deleted]
#So, what would rec.guns readers suggest that I do otherwise?  Is there a
#tool I can use to scrub between the cylinder and barrel?  Also, how
#clean does the gun have to be?

A brass "toothbrush" available at auto parts stores works for cleaning
the cylinder face. As to how clean does the gun have to be, just clean
enough that the cylinder will still turn. Now most of us like our guns
bright and shiney, but with a stainless gun and non-corrosive ammo, 
excessive cleanliness is not mandatory for other than appearance reasons.

Gary
From: betz%gozer@uunet.UU.NET (Andrew Betz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SIG 226 9mm
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:15:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: guinness.1992Oct16.221747.7201
Organization: SigSauer Fan Club

In article <1992Oct15.122101.28856@ncsu.edu> padeniso@eos.ncsu.edu (PAUL ANDREW DENISOWSKI) writes:
#	The Sig-226 is by far the best handgun I've ever fired, very good
#weight distribution, very accurate, superbly reliable, etc. As I mentioned
#before, it is a somewhat large gun (not a standard CC weapon).  Nevertheless,
#as a small-handed person, I think the SIG is easier to hold and handle than
#a number of other larger 9mm's -- the factory grips are, in my opinion, quite

Yah.  I'd have to agree.  The Sig's a little too big for CC, but
its such a nice gun...My hands are perhaps medium to large, but
even so I have to "yaw" my grip a bit on double-action.  After that
I'm fine (i.e., single-action).

#	By the way, I saw what I thought was a 226 with (of all things) wood
#grips the other day -- does anyone else know what I'm talking about?
#
It might have been Sig's "Jubilee" version that they sold as a
commemorative to their anniversiary (75th?).  They may have just
been after-market grips.

Speaking of aftermarket grips and SigSauers...does anybody have any
input about whether its worth it for a SigSauer?  The factory grips
seem pretty good to me.  I was wondering whether aftermarkets might
may the grip a little slimmer(fatter), and whether the "recoil
absorbtion" is really worth putting grips on for.  Its not like
firing a .50BMG derringer or anything now.

Drew
--
betz@gozer.idbsu.edu
*** brought into your terminal from the free state of idaho ***
From: clochmul@nrambr.chem.duke.edu (C. H. Lochmuller)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: lead kits and positive tests
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:21:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: nrambr.9210091437.AA00455

If someone will send me the name of the manufactuer of the test kit, I will
post a list of interfering metals if any. I would be surprised to find much
detectable lead on new Brass casses.

If there is lead, the gloves you wear for reloading should be used. If you
are this concerned, watch out cleaning your battery termianls readying the
car for winter. The white stuff on the studs is a lot more dangerous.

CHL