HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dls@genrad.com (Diana L. Syriac)
Subject: Re: Liberty/Manhattan/Hudson Question
Organization: GenRad, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 11:13:55 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.133810.4694@cuuxb.att.com> mcooper@cuuxb.att.com (~HIGH PERF~Michael A. Cooper~NA~G18~x8716~) writes:
>
>
>    Hi, fellow aviators.
>I recently moved to the New Jersey area, and have heard from several
>people that there is a route you can take under/around/through all
>the New York TCAs to do a flyby of the Statue of Liberty, Manhattan,
>the Hudson River, and back.  All I can get out of the local instructor
>is "You don't want to do that," presumably because the FBO does this
>as a "tour" package and charges beau coup bucks for it.  If anyone
>has any information (routes, frequencies, procedures), I'd appreciate
>it.  I looked in the Facilities Directory for this information and
>didn't find it, although I did find another similar route for Niagra
>Falls that I plan to take later on this year.

I've done this once and it was lots of fun, really!  It's not difficult to
do, either.  Basically, get yourself a NYC TCA chart.  If you look along the
Hudson River, you'll notice a VFR corridor.  Stay under it the entire way 
(you'll actually be BELOW the cliffs at certain points in the North), and
do announce on the Corridor freq, about once every 10 minutes (it's also
shown on the VFR TCA chart), and WATCH FOR OTHER PLANES, there's lots of
them!

And take along a passenger or extra pilot with a camera.  You can get some
great shots!

Diana


->Diana L. Syriac (Carlson) dls@genrad.com	Ham: KC1SP (Sweet Pea)      <-
->I'D RATHER BE FLYING!	P-ASEL, INST		CAP: 1LT, Freedom 690 Mobile<-
->AD ASTRA, PER ASPERA				Airplane: C-172 N6513E	    <-
->GenRad, MS/6, 300 Baker Ave, Concord, Mass.  01742  (508)369-4400 x2459   <-
From: steves@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Steve Shaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Seatbelts (was: Re: Hinckley Crash)
Date: 15 Sep 92 13:56:09 GMT
Organization: HP Signal Analysis Division - Rohnert Park, CA

> This is speculation, but if the Beech 18 has a hydraulic retraction
> mechanism, and the hydraulic pump is on only one engine, and that is
> the engine that died, then the pilot may not have been able to retract
> the gear without say, maybe 100 strokes of a manual hydraulic pump.  I
> suspect he would be too busy to do this, in the circumstances of this
> crash.  Does anyone know enough about Beech 18 systems to comment
> authoritatively on this?

The Beech 18 has a electro-mechanical gear system.  Although there is a hand
crank I don't believe this can be used to retract the gear (you don't have
enough strength).  The emergency extension system consists of a clutch
pedel that the pilot pushes with their foot causing the gear to free fall into
the down position.  The hand crank is then used to ensure the gear is locked.

Also note that the gear does not cause any (at least not much) additional
drag while in transit.

Steve Shaffer CFI - BE-35 N3334G
steves@hpsad.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: ginsberg@t.Stanford.EDU (Matthew L. Ginsberg)
Subject: Re: what's "necessary for takeoff or landing"?
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 18:14:09 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.165903.27345@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> cessna@kn5f.jsc.nasa.gov (Mark Taylor Evert) writes:
>In article <1992Sep15.153709.21452@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> 
>ginsberg@t.Stanford.EDU (Matthew L. Ginsberg) writes:
>> When I got back to the airport, the tower chief very politely informed
>> me that I had broken FAR 91.119, which says that you can't come within
>> 500 feet of any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure except "when
>> necessary for takeoff or landing." 
>
>Were you IFR?  If not you were in violation of 91.79, not 91.119.   Read 91.85 which 
>are general rules for operating at or near an airport.  Since ATC gave you 
>permission for that operation,  you probably don't have anything to worry 
>about.  Ditto for practice IFR approaches.

My 1992 FAR's indicate 91.27 - 91.99 as "reserved".  The articles about
operating at airports don't seem to supersede 91.119, just add to it.

					Matt Ginsberg

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: derrell@kirk.retix.com (Derrell Lipman)
Subject: PT-17 Stearman flights (Was: Flying in warbirds or military aircraft)
In-reply-to: brian@porky.contex.com's message of 14 Sep 92 23:30:08 GMT
Organization: Retix, Santa Monica
Distribution: usa
Date: 15 Sep 92 18:52:17

In article <2944@contex.contex.com> brian@porky.contex.com (Brian Love) writes:

> 
> I'm looking for information regarding pleasure flights in a warbird.
> This would be a gift to a friend and I'm particularly interested in
> the Air Combat organization and any similar organizations.  Any other
> suggestions for obtaining a seat in an old warbird or a current
> generation military aircraft are welcome.

Well, this comes close (it's a trainer rather than a warbird)...

At washington county airport, missouri, you can get checked out in a
PT-17 Stearman.  Washington County Airport is run by one of the
friendliest FBO's I've ever been to.  The owner is Mr. Cochran, and
the FBO is (not surprisingly) Cochran Aviation.  Give them a call.  (I
don't have the number.) I recall that an hour in a PT-17 was $95.00,
and I think that may have included Mr. Cochran's instruction time, to
boot.  He has a number of PT-17s there (and his car's license number
is PT-17).  (He even let us borrow his car to go into town for lunch!)

Happy flying.
--

--derrell    (derrell-lipman@retix.com)

Cogito Signum - "Consider the stamp"

	"Consider the stamp, my son, for its usefulness consists in
         its ability to stick to one thing until it gets there."

			Omega Phi Alpha motto.
From: Michael Steckner <steckner@lri.uwo.ca>
Subject:  Re: Soaring decisions (was: ...long boring flights)
Organization: Relayed-by-Sendmail
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 15:44:44 GMT
To: rec.aviation@julian.uwo.ca

>None other than Paul MacCready of more recent Gossamer (Albatross/Condor)

There are many stories about his famous win. I have heard it stated that
he published his speed to fly theory shortly before the competition and
that, of course, the other pilots went nuts try to follow the letter
of the law. For those who have studied speed to fly, well, it is great,
but it also should be pointed out that the error introduced by flying
too slow or too fast is negligible (unless you are really fly the wrong
speed by a *HUGE* margin. Check out Reichmann, Xcountry book). 
The theory is that Mac watched the weather (dont forget, he is a 
meteorologist by training) whereas the others watched the varios and 
ASI. Right or wrong, it makes for a cute story.

>MacCready was not a very smooth pilot, however
I also read/heard it somewhere that he was in terrible need of flying practice.
It was reported by other pilots thermalling with him that he was skidding
and slipping all over the places in thermals. (OK, now everyone is going
to debate whether climb performance is enhanced by slipping turns, as
stated by Moffat in "winning on the wind" re the open cirrus. Maybe we can
get a new thread going here. Any aerodynamicists out there?)

If my brain cells are not acting up, I think Philip Wills predicted that 
he would wind the next worlds, even if he did not fly in the interceding
two years!

One other story about his MPA stuff was his design criterion. IN the
pursuit of lightness, if a part consistently stayed in one piece, it
was too strong and therefore too heavy. It was then weakened/lightened
until it would break periodically. I also saw in a book a photo of
one of the lab books which showed the weight of each part in grams.

The man does take care of details!
From: lee@bluefuzz.sw.stratus.com (Lee Cooprider)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Interstate Landing--Not such a good idea
Keywords: Emergency Landing Road Interstate
Date: 9 Sep 92 15:25:27 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering

In article <4948@metasoft.UUCP> alan@metasoft.UUCP (Alan Epstein) writes:
>I, like many of us, had it drummed in early that if the engine quits and
>no airfield is close by, head for the interstate

My instructors suggested that roads, especially interstates, were a choice of
last resort, following fields and other off-pavement areas.  The problems of
trying to negotiate wires, traffic, overpasses and signs were described as
likely to thwart an otherwise good deadstick landing.

If I lived farther west (but not too far), I think the interstates would look
a lot friendlier -- nice and flat with long stretches with no obstacles.
-- 
Lee W. Cooprider				PP-ASEL/IA
Lee_Cooprider@vos.stratus.com			Skylane N2908F "Wiley"
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Subject: Re: Single man IFR
Reply-To: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Distribution: world 
Date: 10 Sep 92 17:53:35 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.071927.21419@bernina.ethz.ch> zari@math.ethz.ch (Alain Zarinelli) writes:
>
[working on instrument rating in a Seneca simulator]
>
>   For now I've made around 5h in that simulator (pitch flying,
>different configurations, steep turns, stalls, SIDs and currently
>interceptions & procedure turns). It's great fun but I can't figure out
>how a single person can eventually handle all that stuff in a real IFR
>situation. Is this because the instructor (a SWISSAIR Fokker 100 pilot
>[F/O]) doesn't want you to get some breath between the different
>"exercises" or is it REALLY that much work?

After awhile, TRUE IFR can get to be pretty boring.  At your stage of
training, you are playing "catch up".  Trying to fly the plane, main-
tain situational awareness, and deal with whatever new things your
instructor throws at you.

In my real IFR experience, I know where I am going, and since most of
the time I am flying straight and level, I have time to study the
frequencies for the next sector, the approach altitudes, etc.  Having
the next frequencies dialed in and identified before the changeover
point really reduces workload.

Flying a twin CAN be a handful even VFR.  The plane goes faster, and
you have to anticipate much more.  On the other hand, with practice
and good training, you can find the "grove", even in a twin.

Kerry
Xref: sparky rec.aviation:15353 alt.radio.scanner:1866
From: randyh@gvgadg.gvg.tek.com (Randy Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,alt.radio.scanner
Subject: Reno Air Race Frequencies Wanted
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:17:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: gold.5203
Reply-To: randyh@gvgadg.gvg.tek.com (Randy Hall)
Followup-To: rec.aviation
Distribution: usa
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

I am looking for frequencies that may or will be used at the Reno Air Race
coming up this weekend. Air frequencies and anything else of interest at
the race would be appreciated.

Randy

randy@gvgadg.gvg.tek.com
From: deragon@GROUCHO.CS.NYU.EDU (John Paul Deragon)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: No more time to kill :-)
Date: 10 Sep 92 04:04:50 GMT




	Ok.... due to overwhelming responses for a graphic flight
planner, I have decided to take up my free time with it. ;-)

	The modifications I would *like* to make are the following:

	o  A built in weight and balance utility where it will calc for
	   you the CG and plot it over time. (ie: fuel burn)

	o  A grapical front end for the above (in X)

	o  a search mode that will browse the database for nav aids
	   printing ones news your flight path.

	o  A graphical front end for above as well (in X), which will
	   allow interactive planning.

	If anyone would like to add anything to this "wish list", please
send me email.  Also down the road as modules are completed, I would like
to know who would be available to beta test.

	I am currently working on the weight and balance part, which is
75% done, so I need some brave souls to bash it up.  Anyone?

	Most likely the modules I will write will be merged into the
basic infra-structure of fplan.  I just email the author of fplan
Steve Tynor (tynor@prism.gatech.edu), to work out the logistics.

	So the bottom line is:

	Send your Suggestions
	Send any possible code that may be helpfull (earths curvature,
	database munchers, etc...etc)

	Also... if anyone would like to help with the code (especially the
	X part let me know)
	

	Ciao...

	John.

	

---
John Deragon
deragon@groucho.cs.nyu.edu
From: ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Two planes collide over Santa Paula Airport
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:41:03 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

> I thought NORAD traffic was limited to little electric carts in
> Cheyenne Mountain.

Nope, actually not.  One of my first flights after getting my Pilot's
License in Colorado was to fly down to Colorado Springs from Denver.
After taxiing clear of the runway, I was told by ground control to
taxi to the ramp.  There was a sign there that said "Transient
Aircraft" and an arrow so I went that way.  I quickly found all these
transient aircraft were military type things and on the wall of the
building there was a big sign that said "Welcome to NORAD."  I had
to call ground control and confess that I had screwed up and could
use progressive taxi instructions over to the general aviation side
of the field.  Peterson Field (home field of Norad) is colocated with
Colorado Springs Muni.

-Ron
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: HAHLLUND@finabo.abo.fi (Hans Ahllund Inf)
Subject: soaring news
Organization: Abo Akademi University, Finland
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 21:42:54 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20


   SOARING NEWS FROM FINLAND (which is a country next to sweden)
******************************************************************

I am posting the results from the 15M- and Standard-class Nationals
from Finland , because they might be of interest to competition 
minded glider pilots all over the world. The next World Championships
are in Borlange, Sweden as you should know.

The 2-week competition was held in the gliding centre of R{ysk{l{ 
in may-june. Standard Class had 30+ ships and the 15-M had 22 
competitors.
The weather was quite good, although mostly dry thermals of 1-3 m/s 
but with high inversion on most of the days (1000-2000 meters).
12 days of flying, 1 day of rest and 1 day of rain.

15M RESULTS 
 1. Simo Kuusisto    10739p  Ventus C
 2. Jouko M{enp{{    10271p  LS-6 B
 3. Kari Lappalainen 10997p  Ventus C

STANDARD CLASS 
 1. Juha Sorri       11192p  SZD-55
 2. Antti Taimioja   11053p  Discus A
 3. Vesa Pajunen     10786p  Discus B

The fastest speed task of 361 km was 112.5 km/h, flown by Asko Pankka in his
Discus A. The slowest winner of a day was Simo Kuusisto on a 342 km task with
a speed of 75.1 km/h. Mostly the speeds were about 90 km/h.
The longest task was 533 km and the shortest 202 km.

So, these are the pilots that will represent Finland in Borl{nge next year.
Three of them have been in WC:s before,and only Kuusisto and Sorri flew
in Uvalde in 91. Kuusisto is without doubt one of the top pilots in the 
world today. Previous merits is a second place in Hobbs WC:s. 
A big dissapointment was the absense of Markku Kuittinen (ex Benalla World
Champion). He did not enter the competition at all because he had to pay
for the shipping of his Discus from Uvalde himself. The Finnish Soaring
Ascossiation was out of money.


                      Here was the news from the 5th largest soaring
                       country in the world.

 

P.S    
Has anybody heard anything about the accident in UVALDE 91, when 2 planes
collided. One of the pilots - a friend of mine - was killed, while the 
Japanese pilot managed to bail out. The NTSB said that they would investigate
the acciddent. What about the results of the investigation ??
From: cul8er@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (* JOHNNY CHIU * KB5SJN *)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Question about some Def.
Date: 13 Sep 92 15:51:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: ut-emx.79634
Reply-To: cul8er@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (* JOHNNY CHIU * KB5SJN *)
Distribution: na
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: cul8er@mickey.cc.utexas.edu

Does anyone know the definition for BLOCK TIME and BLOCK SPEED
Does that meass the time or speed between takeoff and landing,
or the time and speed between ternimal and ternimal.

--
From: rl@socrates.ucsf.edu (Robert Langridge)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: AM I CRAZY OR WAS THERE A 'SCREW UP' YESTERDAY
Date: 7 Sep 92 14:03:22 GMT
Organization: UCSF Computer Graphics Lab

ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie) writes:

>It's in last weeks Aviation Leak (Aug 24, 1992).  "A UA 747 crew
>reported having a near collision with what appeared to be a supersonic
>aircraft that strayed off course over the Southern California desert."

>Acompanying this article is one titled "Recent Sightings of XB-70-Like
>Aircraft Reinforce 1990 Reports from Edwards Area."

There is an interesting article in the Economist for Aug 29 - Sep 4,
listed on the contents page as "The Secret of Aurora" but more imaginatively
headed on page 73 "O what can you see by the dawn's early light".

"If the programme's fate is in the balance... some of those involved might
suspect that they would be less likely to feel the force of defence cuts
if their marvellous machines were visible to the public.  That might explain 
the tantalising glimpses and hints, not to mention odd and decidedly 
indiscreet tricks such as rattling parts of Los Angeles at a specific time 
on Thursdays..."

The close encounter with the UA 747 would fit the pattern.

>By the way, that's the last legible issue of Aviation Week.  The new
>issue uses a sans-serif font, nukes the lines around the articles and
>uses cutesie color insets and other intrusions into the text that make
>the magazine absolutely horrid to read.  The guilty parties have their
>smiling mugs on the TOC page.  Please everybody tell them to stop!

Must be designed by the same people that screwed up CACM a while ago...

Bob Langridge    		       Phone: +1 415 476-2630, -1540, -5128
Computer Graphics Laboratory		               FAX: +1 415 476-0688 
926 Medical Sciences
University of California	                    E-Mail: rl@cgl.ucsf.edu
San Francisco  CA  94143-0446
From: arkin@kroywest.kroy.com (Mike Arkin)
Subject: Re: Advice for Grand Canyon Trip
Organization: Kroy, Inc.
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 01:10:41 GMT

In article <JEFFK.92Sep2110455@dosXX.med.utah.edu> jeffk@dosXX.med.utah.edu (Jeff Knell) writes:
>
>  - Hite, at the N end of the lake
>    (small strip, rated top 10 dangerous, not recommended)

I just flew into Hite two weeks ago. A friend (who happens to also be a
Delta pilot) keeps a houseboat there. Do not even think of landing there
unless you have been briefed by a local and have more than a few hours in
your logbook. There is really only one approach that will work out well
and it's not the obvious one.

This "airport" has the most severe grade I've ever seen. It is definitely
only a land to the east, take off to the west field. Factoring density
altitude, a go around on short final is probably marginal (the runway
may out-climb your plane). It's also short (2200 useable). Best way to
go-around would be to get south towards the Colorado River quick. It is
paved but narrow.

Having said all that, I did land and depart UT03 (HITE) in my C177RG with
no problems. But there's no reason to unless someone is there waiting for
you. It's still a 5 mile or so car ride to Hite Marina (1 mile direct, but
there's no such thing as a direct road here). I was there for three days
and was the only plane to use the runway. It gets used by one of the
rafting companies also for pickup after rafting down the Colorado River
north of Lake Powell. Personally, I think the boat ramp at Hite Marina
would make a better runway (concrete, wide, probably just as long, similar
grade) :) Just to give you an idea how remote this place is, they just got
phone service this spring thanks to a microwave link. Prior to that there
was one radio-telephone link down to Page via BullFrog.

A flight from GCN to Page AZ up towards Hite and back is well worth the
trip (a "10" on the scenic flight scale). LA Center will usually vector
you though one of the "corridors" if you are worried about straying off
the approved path in the Grand Canyon SFRA.

Glossary:
SFRA - Special Flight Rule Area
UT03 - Hite "airport" sectional says "Hazardous", believe it!
GCN - Grand Canyon Airport

-- 
Mike Arkin
Kroy, Inc.
arkin@kroy.com, ...uunet!kroy!arkin
From: cantrell@seqp4.sequoia.com (Paul Cantrell)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Newspaper reports: Overloaded Cherokee Crash
Date: 9 Sep 92 20:17:09 GMT
Organization: Sequoia Computer Systems

In article <1540324@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM>, woof@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM (Steve Wolf) writes:
[discussion of accident removed]
> Is an aviation career for this person now out of the question?  Can
> people recover from severe judgement errors as far as the FAA is
> concerned, or are they prohibited from flying for the rest of their
> life?

It's funny, I used to figure one accident and it's all over. Yet I know
several people who have crashed aircraft due to their own negligence,
and still had no problem continueing to get jobs.

I personally don't plan on having any accidents, and none of the people
got airline jobs, but apparently there's enough other work out there...

(one person I know crashed *several* aircraft, yet still got picked up
for a co-pilot job with a really great company. Don't know if the applicant
lied on the application or not...)
-- 
                  THIS                  | Paul Cantrell "PC"
                  SPACE                 | cantrell@sequoia.com
              INTENTIONALLY             | DoD #1144
               LEFT BLANK               | HELO/ASEL/ZX10 Pilot
From: rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Dick Harrigill)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Flying/Camping the Sierras: Mariposa
Date: 4 Sep 92 20:48:04 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group, Seattle

In article <1992Sep2.223437.3425@iphase.uucp> grima@iphase.uucp (Gary Rima) writes:
>In article <la5l1aINN93@sol.usc.edu> barney@sol.usc.edu (Barney Lum) writes:
>>Turbulence, TRW's, Destiny Altitude, Physiology at Altitude, and FUN.
>                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>I guess that must be a "California" type of thing......  :-)

Has to do with time travelling DeLoreans.

-- 
Dick Harrigill, an independent voice from:     Boeing Commercial Airplanes 
M/S 9R-49  PO BOX 3707                       Renton Avionics/Flight Systems
Seattle, WA  91824                                  Computing Support
(206) 393-9539    rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com    CDP, PP-ASEL
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: thayes@uucp (Terry Hayes)
Subject: Re: What's the pattern of GPS unavailability?
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:08:55 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Sep8.061915.14281@xymox.palo-alto.ca.us> philf@xymox.palo-alto.ca.us (Phil Fernandez) writes:
>
>... while flying last Friday, the GPS flagged 'cuz coverage dropped
>from four to three to two to one satellite.  This outage lasted for
>the entire duration of my flight -- about 3 hours.  On Saturday, same
>thing.  No GPS coverage, same time of day, for 3 or so hours.  Same
>thing on Sunday, same time of day.  And same thing today.
>
>Well, today I was out for almost 7 hours.  No coverage for the first
>part of my flight.  But about 5 hours into my trip all of a sudden my
>GPS coverage went from one to two to five to six satellites in view
>with strong signals.  The transition from one to six happened in about
>1/2 hour.
>
>pmf

Rumor has it (this from someone on Compuserve) that the miliary was doing
some sort of testing or evaluation over the weekend.  The poster indicated
that half the satallites were switched off.  This would account for the sudden
dropout, and the equally sudden return of service.

This is exactly the sort of thing that will happen until the GPS system is
officially designated as a legal navigation method.  At this point the
FAA has no control over when these sort of outages will occur.

Terry
thayes@oracle.com