HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lachlan@dmp.csiro.au (Lachlan Cranswick)
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD? (long)
Organization: CSIRO Division of Mineral Products, Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 03:16:17 GMT

gglass07@ursa.calvin.edu (Gideon Glass) writes:

>papresco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:

>>Why is it, in VI if I try to save a file without a name it doesn't prompt
>>me for a name?  Instead it kicks me back to vi.  Or if I try to quit without
>>saving.  Why doesn't it ask me "Save y/n."  There is no reason VI couldn't
>>have an "expert" mode that got rid of messages for those that don't want
>>them.
>[Lots more deleted]

>Listen, if you don't like VI, don't use it.  Can't you get the point?
>Those of us who like UNIX use it.  Those of you who don't can find
>yourselves another operating system.  I'm tired of hearing your
>marketing-inspired bullshit hype about how no one's going to use UNIX
>after Window NT (or whatever) comes out.  Plenty of people like UNIX
>fine without your stupid hypothetical novice-friendly user interface
>strapped on.


WOOHH - Someone got out of wrong side of the bed this morning!!

It is no news that
novice users hate UNIX (aka vi) and think
it is the pits.  

In my previous posts about novice users hating UNIX and especially 
vi, I got flamed but I also got a brilliant piece of advice - PICO.

I've posted this before, but the PICO editor for UNIX
has been written by GODS!!  It is a very simple editor
and has a zero learning curve for new users and experienced
vi users who still hate vi.

It only took me three days to get almost all the site
users to fall in love with this editor.  It also came with
a number of makefiles for different computers so I didn't have
library problems to get the thing to compile.

FEATURES:-
It has the menu at the bottom on the screen with all the options.
Line wrap.
REALLY USER FRIENDLY.

Try it out it is totally brilliant!!

I no longer have to feel guilty about introducing
new users to UNIX by warning them to leave an afternoon
or two free to learn vi.

It is very easy to get elm to use it as its default editor
and you can make nn use PICO as its default editor by putting
the line

setenv EDITOR /bin/pico  (or wherever the editor is)

in your .cshrc file.

(I still use vi, mainly because I have had quite a few thousand
spent on me to learn the thing at UNIX courses.  Also I am quite addicted to
vi.)

HOPE this helps.  Stay cool dudes,  Lachlan.
-- 
  Lachlan Cranswick  -  CSIRO             _--_|\  lachlan@dmp.CSIRO.AU
  Division of Mineral Products           /      \ tel +61 3 647 0367
  PO Box 124, Port Melbourne 3207        \_.--._/ fax +61 3 646 3223
  AUSTRALIA                                    v 
Xref: sparky comp.unix.questions:13474 alt.folklore.computers:16299 alt.religion.computers:858 comp.lang.pascal:6635 alt.cobol:547
From: mjb@doc.ic.ac.uk (Matthew J Brown)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions,alt.folklore.computers,alt.religion.computers,comp.lang.pascal,alt.cobol
Subject: Re: net.views - mainframe programmers in an open systems world
Date: 16 Nov 92 18:07:22
Organization: Department Of Computing, Imperial College, London.
	<BxrDxF.Izy@NeoSoft.com> <1992Nov15.192940.10559@ifi.uio.no>
	<Af1h6OS00aw_012msT@andrew.cmu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: oak23.doc.ic.ac.uk
In-reply-to: Faisal Nameer Jawdat's message of Sun, 15 Nov 1992 17:39:22 -0500 

In article <Af1h6OS00aw_012msT@andrew.cmu.edu> Faisal Nameer Jawdat <fj05+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>frankj@ifi.uio.no (Frank Tore Johansen) writes:
>> OK, then.  Has anyone ever researched in how much time is wasted
>> reading/posting news compared to what is gained from it?
>
>SBT Accounting Systems of Sausalito, CA did a study which found that
>computer 'futzing' in general costs American businesses nearly $100
>billion per year

This is the sort of study whose findings it is best to take with
more than a pinch of salt. What exactly did they define as 'futzing'?
Did they include ordinary file and directory manipulation, necessary
changes in configuration, etc? It also assumes that if they were not
fiddling with their computers, they would be doing profitable work -
not necessarily an accurate assumption.

>among various findings:
>- 25 million personal computer users every year in the US spend 5
>billion hours per year fiddling with their computers at work, which is
>5.1 hours per week for every pc in the country
>- 4 percent of clerical and secretarial labor is taken up with just
>trying to get the software to work

*That* I can believe - I would not have been surprised if the figure
was somewhat greater, actually.

>- men tend to tinker more than women, by about 19%

but does their tinkering improve their computer skills, knowledge
of applications, etc.? Time spent 'tinkering' is not necessarily
wasted.

This survey, anyway, is not that relevant to USENET, since it seems
to have been carried out on a sample consisting wholly or mostly of
clerical and secretarial staff - I don't know many secretaries with
news access.

News is also not necessarily a nonproductive activity; the 'comp'
groups, for example, are very useful for anyone working with computers
at any level.

-Matt

--
| Matthew J. Brown  | Dept. of Computing | If God intended for us to go to   |
| mjb@doc.ic.ac.uk  | Imperial College,  | lectures He wouldn't have created |
| mjb02@cc.ic.ac.uk | 180 Queen's Gate   | double-sided photocopiers.        |
| Morven on Lambda  | LONDON SW7 2AZ     |          -IC RagMag 1991/92       |
From: dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: Need Phone line configuration
Date: 17 Nov 92 23:55:38 GMT
Organization: Tacoma Screw Products, Inc.

In article <34034@adm.brl.mil> maschepe@thama1.apgea.army.mil (Michael A. Schepers) writes:
>Hi,
>
>     Does anyone know what the standard phone line PIN configuration is?
>     What I need to do is create a male RS-232 connector (25 pin) from a
>     standard phone line (6 wires; Blue, Yel, Red, Grn, Blk, Wht).  I
>     believe the phone line is a rj45, but I would not bet on it.
>     Thanks for the help!!!

TIP is green, RING is red.  This is the wire pair in the middle of
the modular plug.  Wire pairs start with the two wires in the middle
of the plug and go out towards the edge, so on a 6-wire mudular
plug, the pairs would be 3-4, 2-5 and 1-6.  On a standard residential
installation, yellow is ground and black is transformer +.  The trans-
former was used to light the dials of Trimline and Princess phones.
Newer lighted-dial phones use a low-current LED which draws its
power directly from the phone lines.  Blue and white depends on your
application.  Is this the information you wanted?


-- 
David Breneman     Sys Admin, Tacoma Screw Products, Inc. |  ____  ____  ____
dcb@tacoma.uucp           |   SCREWIE the TSP CLOWN sez-  |   /   /___  /___/ 
 ..!uunet!tacoma!dcb      | "Zinc & cadmium plating stops |  /   ____/ / 
CompuServe: 75760,1232    |  rust & acts as a lubricant!" |
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: nbhandar@enws241.eas.asu.edu (Narendra Bhandari)
Subject: CURSES - No delay option, SunOS 4.1.1
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 03:30:30 GMT


Is there a nodelay function in curses.

I am using SunOS 4.1.1.( I have used one on SVR4).

If not , is there any other technique of 

Non-blocking character input from Keyboard.


-- 
      ...........................................................
      .  Narendra Bhandari         	nbhandar@cs.eas.asu.edu	.
      .  950 S Terrace Road, #D366 	602.921.3401(Home)	.
      .  Tempe, AZ 85281		602.965.1780(Work)	.
From: tshin@husc8.harvard.edu (Tae Shin)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Suggestions for good UNIX manuals
Date: 22 Nov 92 08:21:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc8.TSHIN.92Nov22002155
Distribution: world
Organization: Harvard Arts and Sciences Computer Services, Cambridge, MA

I've just started learning about and using UNIX, since I will be inheriting a 
system administrator position in the near future.  Can anyone suggest some good
books about UNIX which are at a novice to intermediate level?  Clarity and
comprehensiveness are important factors that I'm looking at.  Also, I've 
noticed that there are a series of books put out by O'Reilly and Associates
dealing with various aspects of UNIX.  Can anyone recommend these books?  
Thanks for your help.   T.B. Shin   tshin@husc8.harvard.edu
				     shin@slsvax.harvard.edu
From: peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD?
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 13:42:55 GMT
Organization: Global Village 1

pfcouvar@unix.amherst.edu (Peter F. Couvares) writes:

>peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser) writes:

>>>>If you want a nice graphical interface
>>>>like Windows or Os/2, you have to ftp and make that too.
>>>Um, no ... you just install X from the SLS disks, I believe.
>>Yep. But then, how do I know to type in 'startx' on the command line?

>	The same way you know to type "win" to start MSWindows or to
>double-click to start a Mac application -- you read the short intro
>documentation. It's not the least bit difficult.

I don't need to type anything to boot OS/2 in a graphics environment.

Greetings,
Peter Busser
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions,sci.math,sci.math.stat,sci.math.symbolic,sci.math.num-analysis,misc.forsale.wanted
From: serhody@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Stephen e. Rhody)
Subject: Re: Looking for Time Series Analysis software
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 11:56:48 EST

In article <1992Nov17.051627.10815@midway.uchicago.edu> sjs6@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>The leading program for time series analysis is probably RATS, which runs
>under DOS, the Macintosh, Unix and perhaps some other operating systems
>as well.
>
>The company that writes this is located in Evanston, IL.  Their name used
>to be VAR econometrics, but they might well have changed it about a year ago
>(perhaps to "Estima", but I could have them confused with another company).
>
>RATS stands for something like "regression analysis for time series" and 
>contains a broad array of time series analysis functions including specral
>analysis.
>
>If you cant track this down yourself, contact me by email and I will send
>you the phone number.
>
>-- 
>Jonathan Silverman
>
>sjs6@quads.uchicago.edu
>jonat@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu


From the RATS 4.0 manual:

Rats is produced by

Estima 1800 Sherman Ave., Suite 612
Evanston, IL 60201

Phone Numbers:

(708) 864-8772	(General Information)
(708) 864-1910	(Technical Support:  9am-5pm Central time)
(708) 864-6221	(Fax)
(708) 864-8816	(Bulletin Board)

Hope this helps

Steve
From: peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD? (long)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:11:48 GMT
Organization: Global Village 1

rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) writes:

>>  - how much is the difference between a DOS/Windows app and a comparable
>>    UNIX app? (Ok, let the flames come in! :)))
>I am not sure what you mean by that ?

Sorry that I was very unclear. I ment the price.

>>If I for instance don't like the
>>Motif window manager and I switch to the OPEN LOOK window manager. That makes
>>that makes several things look different on the screen. But everything the
>>application displays remains exactly the same. 

>That's what window manager supposed to do. (Like the name says 
>"window manager").

Yes and the name says exactly what it does: manage windows. It doesn't handle
buttons, scroll bars, check boxes, pop-up menus, etc., etc. An OPEN LOOK app
is still an OPEN LOOK app when run under Motif. After a few clicks, you have
as many user interfaces as applications, except for the borders.
From: fahad@cs.pitt.edu (Fahad A Hoymany)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Suppressing the 'w' command
Date: 17 Nov 92 00:26:37 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

Could someone tell me how to stop other people from checking up on me
with the 'w' command?  (As you know 'w' tells what other users are running
at that particular time)

p.s. I could not find information on this from previous postings.

privacyLESS in Pittsburgh
..Fahad
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: papresco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Paul Prescod)
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD? (long)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 08:23:14 GMT

>Indeed, it's not framemaker, and it doesn't offer the same things
>either, but it's far superior to framemaker. That's why the comparison
>may be ridiculous, but that's just because prices for useless apps like
>framemaker are THAT high. Maybe you're right, the comparison was just
>TOO flattering for FrameMaker. But I wanted to compare with something
>that is available on the same amount of hardware on both sides, which is
>- as you say - a ridiculous thing to try, because DOS is dead, and UNIX
>isn't.


You are entitled to your opinions about software.  Unfortunately the software
buying public does not agree with you.  They pay for framemaker for a reason,
and if they wanted tex, they could get it.  Same with spreadsheets.
>
>
>And you get impressed by the masses. 

The masses have masses of dollars.  We don't have to do what they do,
but we should provide what they want.

There is a saying in switzerland
>that goes: "Eat cow shit, millions of flies can't be wrong". It might
>scare somebody, but we are experiencing an enormous growth in computer
>knowledge among our population, so we're just not anymore at a point
>where computers absolutely HAVE to have an interface with annoying
>dialog boxes flashing up every other second. These people want

90% of the population is computer illiterate.
BTW, PCMag says 35% of all PCs are networked, and that number has 
increased by at least 5% every year for the last four.

>
>*laugh* You must be joking. WHICH PC network, if you please? I don't see
>many PC's networking, when you look at the market as a whole, and why is
>that so?
>That wasn't my argument, but let me answer to this quickly.
>NeXTstep has it, OpenWindows has it, OSF/1 has it... even Linux has
>one. In fact, only DOS users don't have one consistent GUI (windows is a
>joke, windows NT will be a bad joke, os/2 adds to this variety, a.s.o).
>

NeXTStep is not X.  Besides, Nextstep is only marginally unix.  It is
far superior in interface to unix.  DOS users may not have a consistent
gui, but most PC operating systems you buy COME with a gui, standard,
boot to the gui, unless you request otherwise, and are cheap.

Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo)
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD?
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:38:33 GMT

peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser) writes:

>rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) writes:

>>You want phone # or mail addres for linux ? Here's an example (taken from 
>>comp.os.linux today ):

>Look, it's very nice of you to let me read comp.os.linux twice ;-) but the
>messages only say something about getting the disks, nothing else. That is,
>I didn't see the word ``support'' anywhere, did you?

Have you tried phoning them ?

>Besides, I'm not living in Germany.

Then find one that's in NL. (I took that posting just for an example.
I didn't look carefully for other places).
You're not living in Germany, so what ? You can still phone them right ?
Next time, probably you want to find place one block from your home :-)

-- budi
-- 
Budi Rahardjo <Budi_Rahardjo@UManitoba.Ca>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba
From: cmh061@cck.coventry.ac.uk (Richard Batty)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: How to delete a file named -l??
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:50:57 GMT
Organization: Coventry University


Try a simple C program to unlink it sometimg like this will work !!

#include <stdio.h>

main()
{
	unlink("FULL PATH & FILENAME HERE !");
	}

It should work .... but dont quote me on that !!

-- 
   __                           | JANET cmh061@uk.ac.cov.cck
  /  )      _/_                 | AKA R.Batty
 /--<  __.  /   ____  __.   __  |
/___/_(_/|_<___/ / <_(_/|__/ <_ | "All I Want From Life Is To Get Out Alive !"
From: bvaughan@sheps.Princeton.EDU (Barbara Vaughan)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: PostScript output from man
Date: 18 Nov 92 20:16:27 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

Can someone suggest a way of either getting PostScript output for a man
page or finding the fully qualified path name for a man page.  Here is
some background:

We have a PostScript printer (HP Laserjet 3si) that lets us print on both
sides of a page using PostScript commands.  (About four lines of
PostScript headers have to be prepended to an existing PostScript file.)  I
have figured out how to
implement this for everything but man pages.  If it's a TeX file, I use
dvips to convert it to PostScript, if a plain text file, I use enscript. I've
written a shell script that figures out what kind of file you have and
that has a -d (for "duplex") command line switch so that even our most
novice users can save paper, and I'd like to make a similar shell script
for man pages so that you can say "manprint -d _command_" and you'll get a
duplex-printed man page.  (Or maybe I could add a "-man" command line
switch to my existing script.)  At any rate, I need PostScript output from
the man page.

I've tried the following:

man -t _command_ >tempfile
pscat tempfile 

(pscat fails and dumps core; this seems to be a pscat bug)

I have found that if I know the name of the man page file, I can use
ptroff -t -man _man.page.file.name_ to produce a PostScript version of the
man page, but our man pages reside on many different directories, so I
would like a way to have my shell script identify the path/name of the file
where the man page resides, so the user doesn't have to know this in advance.

I've also tried various ways of piping output of man directly to ptroff,
This also fails, even if I set my TROFF environment variable to PTROFF. 
The closest I get is a PostScript file containing nothing but headers and
status dictionary, font definitions, etc.

Thanks for any help you can give,

Barbara Vaughan
From: mbarkah@slate.mines.colorado.edu (Ade Barkah)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: annoyance at bounced mail messages
Date: 24 Nov 92 03:51:47 GMT
Organization: Colorado School of Mines

jboggs@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu (John D. Boggs) writes:
: Is there any way to stop these bounced mail messages from eating up
: people's phone bills?  I mean, 10 messages all over a thousand lines?!

Is there any way to stop people from dialing the wrong telephone number ?
Just one of those 'evils' in life. Unfortunatly, most people don't
pay their computer bills, and take e-mails for granted.


-Ade.
-- 
Internet  : mbarkah@slate.mines.colorado.edu    (NeXT Mailable)
CompuServe: 74160,3404
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: grep
From: <AASSI@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Monday, 23 Nov 1992 13:57:23 EST
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

grep=
galloping rhinos expell propane      gumby rejects election polls
good repells evil, perpetually       gelatin rockets enhance produce
garden ropes eject propaganda        great rubbish eats people!
granular rice erases poverty         grazing rats exit parking
glauchoma revisits excited patient   guns reach extended parachutes
grapes responded extremely patiently glymosyng reoltun exyupoin prompo
gee are ee pee
From: partl@hp01.boku.ac.at (Hubert Partl)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: problems with awk: output redirection and getline in a pipe
Date: 16 Nov 92 09:28:57 GMT

> awk 'BEGIN {print "...something"}
>            {print " ...anything for every line"}
>     END    {printf("%2d\n", NR) >"awk.tmp" }' |
> sort |
> awk 'BEGIN {getline < "awk.tmp";
>            numberoflines = $1}
>            {print "---anything for every line"}
>      END   {printf("%2d\n", numberoflines)} '

All three processes of the pipe  "awk | sort | awk"   are running in
parallel, the last awk starts BEFORE the first awk has ended and
therefore reads an old awk.tmp, not the new one.

--
Dr. Hubert Partl                              Mail:  partl@mail.boku.ac.at
EDV-Zentrum, Universitaet fuer Bodenkultur    Phone: (+43 1) 36 92 924 - 233
Nussdorfer Laende 11                          Fax:   (+43 1) 36 92 924 - 200
A-1190 Wien, Austria                          (-:  Make laugh, not war!  :-)
From: peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD?
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 14:59:48 GMT
Organization: Global Village 1

ppg@oasis.icl.co.uk (Philippe Goujard) writes:

>As long as your are installing a unix with multi-user capacities you have
>to know at least a little bit more than when installing single user
>operating systems.

Well, it could have multi-user capabilities disabled by default, but not
removed. As long as you provide root capabilities to the shell the user is
using, then it looks to him like MS-DOS, AmigaDOS, OS/2, probably like NT,
where you can do whatever you want on the command line, even the equivalent of
rm -rf / (MS-DOS&OS/2: 'xdel /a/s \' I think?).

>Of course if you are speaking of a unix for a single user this is a
>completly different ball game. But so far I've never seen such a beasty.
>Maybe SVR4.2 will be.

I think Univell's SVR4.2 will be. Including a reasonable price.

>For example Novell is not really difficult to install but it is not exactly
>what joe user does every morning to have fun.

Anyone, not just Joe... <grin>

>Yes but what is complex? Something complex for you might not be for me or
>the other way around.

No on-line help when important questions are asked during installation is,
IMHO, a flaw.

>Of course some of you might say that a single unix already exists and it is
>called os/2... 

OS/2 is not UNIX. I liked OS/2 but it lacks the easy to use programming
environment of UNIX.

>PS : I installed windows 3.1 recently and I LIKED the installation
>procedure, specially those messages saying "This is a good time for filling
>you registration..."

I liked it too.

>However, programs under windows tend to be really large now (how many
>floppies for Corel draw?) and I wish you could get a tape distribution.

Well, that's because things like 'tar xf' don't exist under MS-DOS.

Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: papresco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Paul Prescod)
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 13:43:21 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.114858.14764@ultb.isc.rit.edu> axi0349@ultb.isc.rit.edu (A.X. Ivasyuk) writes:
>
>Paul Prescod writes:
>>If something can be made simple or powerful, it should be made simple,
>>for simple users, and powerful for powerful users.  There is no reason
>>the same thing can't be done in two (three, four, five) different ways.
>>Installation can be simple for those with simple needs, and highly
>>configurable for those with complex needs.  There is no conflict
>>there.
>
>Pardon me, but weren't you just complaining that something should be
>done in a consistent way?

Yes, where possible, interfaces should be implemented in a consistent
manor.  What have I said to contradict that?  Different levels of ease
of use can still be consistent.  OTOH, as long as the easier levels are
consistent, "hackers" seem to love inconsistency, so it isn't as vital
at the power-user end of the spectrum.
From: naam@cecer.army.mil (Ramez Naam)
Subject: background exection from startup scripts
Organization: US Army Corps of Engineers Construction Engineering Research Labs
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 05:48:08 GMT

I'm having trouble forcing a c-shell script to be executed in the
background from my .login.  Just enterring
	myprogram_name &
in the .login creates a self-spawning process.  Is there anyway to
get around this?  Also, can anyone explain to me why this occurs?

On a related note, what's the easiest way to cause *any* shell script
to execute another script in the background, and then terminate without
waiting for its child process to exit?

--
Ramez Naam
naam@lorax.cecer.army.mil
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions