HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pheonix@caen.engin.umich.edu (Douglas John Seman)
Subject: Barrel Length, Rifling, and such.
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 92 19:18:38 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

As for barrel length, 14" is correct for being the longest that
will give you improvement due to gas flow.  The reason a longer
barrel gives better accuracy is that the gas is expanded further,
and that you get less of a 'burst' at the end of the barrel which
add spin to the shot (bad unless you like your hook shot)

As for rifling, this works on the principle of turbulant flow.  
Basically, the gas is spinning around wilidly while it is expanding,
and all you really want is the part of the gas which is flowing
directly forward.  The part of the gas that is pushing outwards 
(radially) in the barrel is allowed to escape through the vents.
This does work, and I own a rifled barrel, but I won't get into a
debate on HOW well it works.  For me, it did noticable increase the
accuracy on my gun.  Another feature of rifling is that it allows the
air ahead of the ball to leave the barrel easier, again cutting down
on turbulence in your barrel.  As for the cons: lowers your muzzel
velocity (worse CO2 efficiency), and if you do break a ball, you do
need water to get the paint out of the holes.
  A forgotten note:  for complex reasons, the 14" max on normal 
barrels is actually 16" for rifled barrel.

As for piranha LB being so accurate.  This is representative of the
entire PMI/Sheradin line. (no, I don't work for anyone)  The guns are
all designed with accuracy as the formost aspect.  They use heavier
bolts, and valves, all for the specific purpose of cutting down on
internal rattle and vibrations.  They are a very accurate gun.  Very
few people will contest that the PGP is the most-accurate stock pistol.
These designs do have their drawbacks, such as heavier gun, lower CO2
efficiency, more expensive, not as "smooth" of pump action.

My two cents worth...                   Doug
   Comments are welcome.                pheonix@engin.umich.edu
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Saturday, 11 Apr 1992 09:32:35 EDT
From: <NEWMAN@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
Subject: Re: Radar Chrono

A local indoor field uses one.  It appears to work very well.  The biggest
advantage is that it works well in low light situations.  Expensive but
its probably worth it.

Bryan Newman   Newman@maine.maine.edu
From: stephen@snoopy.umd.edu (Tim Stephen)
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
Subject: Mail-order paintball equipment suppliers
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:27:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

Hi,
   I'm interested in addresses and/or phone numbers of PB equip suppliers.
If you've had good luck with a company please post. Thanks

From: davelb@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Dave Butler)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 19:05:28 GMT
Subject: Re: ASP Survey Results - Parts I & II
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Greeley, CO
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball

I am always interested in hearing any feedback you may have to the survey
results.  Is there something you saw here that you want more info on?  Or is
there some information that doesn't appear to be included here?

I will be incorporating the data from this survey in an article to one of the
paintball mags.  You may copy the data freely but please retain the credits
on it OK?

Again thanks to all who participated.  If anyone would like a copy of the raw
data, please send a large SASE with adequate postage to:

Dave Butler
1993 43rd Ave.
Greeley, CO  80634


PS - My apologies to anyone who stats may somehow not be totally accurate.  I 
did my best to use accurately represent the data that was to me.
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
From: henryc@panix.com (Henry Chan)
Subject: Re: Smoking Guns
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 15:10:18 GMT
Organization: PANIX - Public Access Unix Systems of NY
Keywords: Gas Clouds


>- Bernie
>btkuo@remus.rutgers.edu
>
>	P.S.  To all, the 2nd shipment of Armson barrels are in the US
>	    and finally cleared through customs!!!!  Hopefully I'll be
>	    getting one in about 2 weeks.  

 Would you know which P-ball guns does Armson make barrels for or is a Armson
barrel pretty much a custom item.  

-- 
This is a test of the emergency signature file system.  Had this been an actual
signature it would contain my name, e-mail address, university, and probably an
interesting little quote.  Remember, this is only a test.
Henryc@panix.com
From: wedwards@ducvax.auburn.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
Subject: 68 Automag 6
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:37:06 GMT


  I'm looking for info on the 68 Automag.  If you know the answers to any of
these questions please post.
 Does the version 6 have the old bugs worked out?
 Why should you not use a siphon bottle?
 I've heard there's a powder-feed mod that will allow you to shot up to 9 balls
per second.  If true: does it work, where can you get one, how much does it
cost, is it worth it, and are there any bad side effects (for the shooter)?
 What about the crown barrel?
 Any other important info will be appreciated.

Walt Edwards
From: sl1t4@cc.usu.edu (CORKY)
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
Subject: Paintball and alcohol!
Date: 13 Apr 92 13:56:53 MDT
Organization: Utah State University


About two weeks ago, a few friends and I discovered a new field, so we went to
try it out.  The field was beautiful!!!  Twenty five acres of pure paintball
paradise!!!!  Cover was thick yet you could move through it easily and quietly.
As the day began, I noticed the field owner drinking a wine cooler, no problem
I don't have a problem with people drinking.  But, he began to play after his
fourth or fifth wine cooler.  About noon (we started about ten a.m.) he stands
up on a log and announces that the field is going to buy beer for the players.
I begin to pack up and the field owner comes over to me and says (this is a
direct quote to the best that I can remember) "I hope you're not leaving
because of the beer, we don't get drunk, we just drink it like soda pop."  Just
as those words left his mouth, enough beer came down that each player
(excluding my group) could have about ten (10) cans each.

Now we get to the question:  I am curious to know how many people are against
mixing alcohol and paintball, and how many do drink while they paintball.
If memory serves me right, it is a direct violation of IPPA rules to drink
alcoholic beverages while playing paintball...or am I wrong?  Please reply with
a post to the board!
-- 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

					Cory R. Emmertson
					Capt. Team Section 8
					The key to paintball is 
					your mind!!
					In spray and pray...I have no faith!!
From: toblackstock@apollo
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
Subject: Gun Fantasy
Date: 12 Apr 92 00:56:22 GMT
Reply-To: toblackstock@apollo
Organization: Davidson College, Davidson, NC

I hate to disagree, but your opinion about the "matinence free" 
Illustrator is, as you admitted, a bit biased.  I own an Illustrator,
and as some of the messages of late have indicated, you do have to 
take care of it and you can, especially if you don't follow the 
hints the factory and experienced players give you, have some 
trouble.  The O-ring situation, the lock-tite necessary on some
parts, and some other common problems come to mind.

However, the gun is lightweight, relatively reliable, and with the 
right barrell combination, is accurate.  Plus, it can throw paint.
It can break balls, though, but I know many players who have never
broken a ball in the year+ they have been using one.  Many teams
in the carolinas use the Illustrator exclusively, and with that
kind of market, a lot of add-on parts become rapidly avalible.  
The gun shoots fairly quietly, expecially next to a 68 special.
So far, I'll stick to my Illustrator!

Towner Blackstock
From: sl1t4@cc.usu.edu (CORKY)
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
Subject: Re: Thunder bolt 5 n' 1   ?????
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:51:12 GMT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Apr9.174627.25423@philabs.philips.com>, sew@philabs.philips.com (Scott E. Wakeman) writes:
> 
> hypothetical question for you guys and girls out there in paintball land ...
> 
> 
>      say you had enough money to be somewhat 'choosey' about what gun you
>      would buy.  What would that gun be and why?  What options would you
>      prefer? 
As I have said, I love my Sniper II.  Although I would probably get a WPG
Autococker.  It has the same design as the Sniper II, but is semiauto.  I
use a One Armed Bandit feeder by B-CUBED co. and have found this to be
 the best of the loadersthat I have used.  I would stay away from Viewloaders.
  I have never seen one stay on properly and have a friend that claims
 he had a paintball shoot through one of his. (That however still
 remains to be proven).
 

>      Barrel?   type?    Length?
There has been a lot of talk about barrel length and 14" seems to be the
general concensus on this group.  I use a 16" with a muzzle break and I am
very happy with the results.
> 
> 
>      Basically,  what do YOU think the 'ultimate set-up' would be??
My ultimate setup, would be an Autococker, One Armed Bandit, 16" barrel, and
a muzzle break.  My only reason for the Autococker is that a team I'm on has
a grudge match on Easter with the plan, If it doesn't move, paint it.  If it 
moves, paint it even more.  We don't like the other team very much!

> 
>      Also , anyone out there have a thunderbolt 5 n' 1?  I'm thinking of
>      getting one.  Any opinions????
GWAD no!!!  As it was pointed out, the gun is frontheavy and ugly.  But if you
really think you want that gun, don't buy the set up, Piece together what you
would use.  If you look closley, the guns have the same basic feature, all
that's been changed is a stock or bottle position.  The last price I saw on
that gun was about $600 (two or three months ago) the base PMI-3 is now $299!!

> 
> 
>      Also ,   What brand of paint do you prefer?
>      How much does a case go for on average?
I prefer Bullseye Microseam or RPSchere (sp?), basically because I like the
colors I can get.  On a side note, I heard California Magnum went out of 
business and then was bought by a foreign corporation and brought back into the
market.  Can anybody confirm this?

-- 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

					Cory R. Emmertson
					Capt. Team Section 8
					The key to paintball is 
					your mind!!
                                        In spray and pray...I have no faith!!
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
From: wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick)
Subject: Re: rifled barrels and the like
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:49:44 GMT

alejanrd@victoria.cs.rose-hulman.edu (Raymond D. Alejandro) writes:

>What I do know is that this airsmith plays with his 14" Pihrana LB and can out
>long ball most semi's and has very good accuracy.

	I don't doubt it.  My 14" TASO Spartan with decent paintballs is
about as accurate as anything out there - and I find that people with semi's 
aren't normally out there for accuracy, they just figure to make kills
by spraying paint.  As much as possible as *fast* as possible.

	Since converting from Quick Change to CA, said Spartan has turned into
an almost, damned-near bad-ass gun.  I LIKE it!!!!

Duane

Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
From: kolbjc@infonode.ingr.com (Chris Kolb)
Subject: Accuracy vs. Length
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 14:56:48 GMT




If a longer barrel gives you accuracy then why is a long barrel
Piranha (a short gun) so accurate? I used to use a long and short
barrel Piranha when I used field guns and they are the most accurate
guns I've ever shot, is it what they are made of?

KOLB
From: hargijk@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
Subject: Long Live Paintball
Date: 9 Apr 92 02:24:10 GMT
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY



I just recently played my first game of paintball and I must say "WHAT A RUSH"
The feeling that you get when you are advancing on the enemy's flag station and
you just know that there is somebody waiting to get you between here and there.
It's a nervous feeling at first( I guess it's because I'm new!) but once the
paint starts flying, your adrenaline kicks in and then your o.k. We played
several different games such as Elimination, Traitor, Center Flag,SpeedBall,
and of course Capture the Flag. Although the price to play is a little high, I
really enjoyed myself.   Long Live Paintball. 


-Joey				Just my $.02
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
From: pheonix@caen.engin.umich.edu (Douglas John Seman)
Subject: Re:  68 Automag questions
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 14:04:13 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

For my comments on the 68 Automag.

First of all, level 6 is no longer state of the art.  They have 
released (as of March I think) level 7.  Level 7 has supposedly
solved once and for all the problems with liquid CO2 getting into
the gun.  In fact, the problem has been solved so well that the
gun now can run on Nitrogen (compressed air) with little or no
modification.

The automag still has it's age old problem of having to keep the
internals lubricated (as in after each game) or the liquid CO2
will lock of the cycling mechanism.  This is due to their internals
being almost open to the gas flow system.  This makes the gun easier
to clean, but casues this lubrication problem.

The power-feed mod is available from the manufacturer.  This is a
really strange design which uses extra CO2 to force balls down into
the breach quicker than gravity would normally do it.  It works, I've
seen (and been rained upon by) it.  It does have some drawbacks:  
1)  CO2 efficiency (you lose about 20%)  2)  In humid weather I've been
told by the owner that balls tend to get wet easier (due to temp
fluctuations) and they stick and break more often  3)  Accuracy does
suffer a bit from balls not having a chance to stop bouncing from the
blast of CO2 that pushes them into the breach until they are fired, this
is not a major effect though.

The crown barrel is not worth it.  You can get many aftermarket barrels
that can beat it hands down.  At least they did bup a ring on the end, the
original crown barrels left the crown spikes just sticking out of the
end of the gun (just what paintball needs, a bayonet!)

The automag is a quirky gun, that if kept happy is reliable and fun to
play with.  It is light, has a high rate of fire (very high with the 
powerfeed mod.), and is simple to clean (for a semi).

The down side is the accuracy (not too good, even with a good barrel),
and a real problem getting the velocity to stay within about 30-40fps.

Of course, every gun off the line is different, but these comments
come from seeing at least 10 of them in action (only one with the power
feed mod.)    
                                                                See ya,
                                          pheonix@engin.umich.edu
From: em3j+@andrew.cmu.edu (Eric Meyhofer)
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
Subject: Re: Semi-Nebie needs new gun
Date: 17 Apr 92 16:38:21 GMT
	<1992Apr17.000151.26263@panix.com>
Distribution: alt.sport.paintball
Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

I was reading this " nebie needs a new gun"  and I noticed some sarcasim
as to whether my clain to being to hit a pop can at 50 yards is true. 
You requested a demonstration and I have my gun here at Carnegie Mellon
; if you want a demo I'll be more than happy to give you one.  But I
must clarify that I only estimated that I could do it with a pop can for
in the past I have only done it, at that distance, with a door nob. 
Since a doornob is considerably smaller than a can I feel more than
confidant as to my claim being able to hold
true................................believe it or not.




-------------SI
From: pertinax@raley.Gwinnett.COM (Pertinax)
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
Subject: Re: Light Sight 800
Date: 9 Apr 92 21:57:28 GMT

alejanrd@ian.cs.rose-hulman.edu (Raymond D. Alejandro) writes:

> The problem I have with laser point sights is that 1) they cost WAY to much f
> game (yes the guns cost alot but when an accessory costs as much as a gun it 
> too expensive).  2) If you have ever seen an actual point sight used it is ve
> embarrassing.  In the movies you always see the little red spot glued to the 
> of the bad guy.  In real life (and I have used one on a a 9mm pistol at 35') 
> little red dot jumps around all over the place, and I thought I was a pretty 
> shot.  If you think you are really good with a gun, and have nerves of steel,
> pick up a gun with a laser sight, and see how much you actually jump.
> 3)  I have yet to find any gun that is accurate enough for a point sight.  I 
> with such variables as temperature, humidity, age of paint, condition of pain
> and make of paint, it just doesn't pay.
> 
> Ray Alejandro

You forgot that they can't be seen in direct sunlight!  That's my beef.
Unfortunately, to be seen in direct sunlight the laser probably will have
to be strong enough to do retinal damage.  Of course, this is irrelevant for
defense purposes.  

Oh, yeah.  Lasers don't bounce around too much on a heavy semi "assault style"
pistol, especially if it can be held with two hands.  But you are right about
them bouncing around on concealable-sized guns.  But if you have a 2-hand
gun it's a different story- real intimidating.

While excellent for defense, I gave up the idea of using one in paintball.
You can't see them in the sun, and it might peeve the other players.
Besides, the laser has to be placed on something to be seen, and that
something has to be reasonably close.  So if you are making a long shot
where you know the ball will drop substantially, and there's sky (or
bright foliage) above the enemy, you can't see the dot to guesstimate
the drop...
From: wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick)
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
Subject: Re: Light Sight 800
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:04:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: dynamo.wb9omc.702579862
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

sl1t4@cc.usu.edu writes:

>Does anybody know anything about the DAISY LIGHT SIGHT 800?  I'm thinking
>of getting one for my Sniper II.  Does the sight target accuratly?  What is
>the effective range of the sight?  Does anybody know the pros and cons of the
>sight?  Any information would be greatly appriciated!!!!!


	Well, I went out and bought my own Daisy Point Sight 800 which,
for the record, is NOT lit until someone does a conversion on it.

	I did my own conversion, rather than paying for someone else's work,
to create essentially a prototype.  When I put it on the paintgun (in my
case, TASO Spartan which was, at the time, Quick-change) I found my
accuracy using the point-sight instead of the v-groove rail was 
considerably better.

My target was a bulls-eye type paper target about one foot across, with
the center circle about 1 1/2" in diameter.  I stepped back about 65
feet (behind my apartment I can't go much further than that and still
shoot in a safe direction) and found that once the sight was zero'ed
in, I could dump virtually every paintball onto the paper target and
several right smack in the middle.  I *did* take the liberty of tumbling 
the paintballs first - improves accuracy by a bunch, too. 

Testing my lighted point sight is temporarily on hold as I have just
modified my Spartan from QC to CA, and am trying to get the velocity
in range.  The gun has a #3 shot tube in it which came with the gun,
which was sent with the 12.5 gram QC.  Since the chrony at Battle Masters
was acting really bogus and I don't think giving a valid reading, 
I'm not sure what I'm actually seeing.  The first shot would read
around 237 and the next one(s) would read about 140.  Yet the gun
didn't change sound, nor did the sound of the splat at the far end, nor
did the trajectory af the ball.  I gave up temporarily, coming to
the conclusion that the chrony was hosed up. (I did try power cycling
and I'd have tried another battery except there wasn't one....)

Pros, so far - increased accuracy over open-type sights, and it seems
easier to get the little dot onto a target.  Relatively inexpensive as
lighted sights go.

Cons, so far - I have my doubts that one of these units will survive
a direct hit from a paintball.  I am crocking up a thick plexiglass
device to protect the sides of mine until my machinist friend figures
out how he will machine one out of hard aluminum.  The point sight 
is plastic, mostly two pieces and those are held together by the
two screws that do windage and elevation adjustments.  

As for range, I haven't gotten that far yet.  My feeling was to try and
figure out what the average "kill"-range for most paintball encounters was
and set it for that.  Then during use, make mental adjustments
for windage and elevation.

Duane
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
From: krwester@condor.cns.syr.EDU (Kristofer R. Wester)
Subject: USI Deringer Mach II: FOR SALE!
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 20:59:46 EDT

Hey folks...  I am selling my USI Deringer Mach II.
It is a WinTec Thunderbolt pump gun.
I just got the gun about 2 weeks ago (BRAND NEW) and have used it only once.
The pump gun has the followign features:
- Double Rail Pump
- 13" Micro-Honed Removable Barrel
- Brass Field Strip Screws
- Locking Auto-Trigger
- Trigger Safety
- Down the Barrel Velocity Adjustment (I'll throw in the rod)
- Adjustable M-16 Grip with Strorage Handle
- Sight Rail

The pump gun has the following options that are added that are included:
- Clearview Elbow
- Muzzle Break
- #2 Power Tube

I am willing to include the following:
- USI 140+ round claerview loader
- Cammo Neoprene Ammo Box Cover
- 7oz CA Tank
- Cammo Neoprene cover for tank

The gun is valued at 300$ but I will dicker.  I have only used it one.

Email krwester@rodan.acs.syr.edu

Later,

	and, may the paintball that hits you never break :)
From: cp18429@shazam.ecs.csus.edu (Ron Lee)
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
Subject: Laser sight (Was: Light Sight 800)
Date: 9 Apr 92 03:36:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: csusac.1992Apr9.033606.20620
Distribution: usa
Organization: California State University, Sacramento

In article <1992Apr7.224052.13131@ms.uky.edu> sean@ms.uky.edu (Sean Casey) writes:
>henryc@panix.com (Henry Chan) writes:
>
>|Laser projection systems and hand-held light pointers are capable of causing
>|retina damage.
>
>NOT!!!
>
>Not in any real world situation anyway. You'd have to mount the beam
>on a tripod, clamp your head in a vise, and stare at the beam. Your
>retinas take far far more damage glancing at the sun than a laser
>sight that happens to cross your pupils. The average contact would
>have so little energy as to not even make an afterimage.
>
>Ever point one of those things? They dance all over the place,
>just like the aim point does when you use a scope.
>
>And of course they have warnings all over them about eye damage. You
>can get eye damage from staring continuously into just about any
>laser. These are too low powered to do it without strange situations
>like the above, but they want to foist off any liability to the user.
>
>By the way, I have yet to see an optical point sight that I like.
>These things provide the illusion of a dot on the target. The optics
>are usually such that you have to be looking right down the barrel to
>see the dot. It'd be easy to miss in trying to take a quick shot. I'd
>rather have a laser sight.
>
>Sean
>

Lasers are broken down into several catagories.  The class 1 lasers are suppose
to be safe on the eyes and have an output on the order of 1mW or less.  Class 2
are about 1 to 3mW and may possibly be harmful to the eyes.  Class 3 is broken
into two sub classes.  Both will definitely damage the eyes.  They only differ 
by their output power.  If you use a laser sight, I *HOPE* its a class 1 laser.
Otherwise count me out of that game.  Laser sights are only good for about 100
feet without field adjustments.  At that range, it maybe better just to spray
paint and have a team mate sneak around for the kill.


-- 
Ron Lee
cp18429@shazam
Assembly anyone?!?!?