HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Russian Culture through California sunshades
Keywords: all of the above
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 21:34:31 GMT

<1992Sep4.153328.9463@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> replies to me:

>Dear Ms. Schwartz, I am impatiently waiting to read your revelations.
>IMHO, Pasternak -> Russian rock line could be matched in the English
>speaking world by T.S. Elliot -> Ice-T connection. Good luck in your research
>and God bless you!

Dear sir, we are just describing events, not making analyses or comparisons
between the two. It is a fact that both became part of underground culture
in their separate times, and for separate generations.

>P.S. BTW, Boris Pasternak belongs to the MAINSTREAM Russian  culture.
>It was outlawed but never went "underground". On this subject read
>O. Mandelshtam ("mnogogrannaya zhizn' vnie zakona").

Yes, thank you, we know this. We already have a few good stories of how
"Doctor Zhivago" was smuggled back into Russia from the West. Pasternak begins
our book because as Solzhenitsyn wrote, he was not a dissident but still
paved the way for others, because of the underground circulation of
his novel.

We even have some confirmation of the rumor that Leonard Bernstein
smuggled some copies of this book to Pasternak himself, so that
he could have the gratification of seeing his published novel himself.

By the way, about the  subjects of female/minorities/animal/rain forest/etcc
abuse, there is a very good book by Dr. Judith Herman (daughter of
Russian Jewish parents on McCarthy's blacklist) about the universality
in psychological response to extreme trauma, and how to heal and recover
from such trauma. She uses as examples soldiers in assorted wars, rape
survivors, child abuse survivors, Holocaust survivors, and Soviet
dissidents. The name is "Trauma and Recovery."

This book helps me understand the importance of poets like Axmatova
and others not only in the intellectual sense but also in the emotional sense
of providing a voice for those traumatized by the terrors of
totalitarianism. Dr. Herman doesn't mention cultural matters in the book
itslef, but I see a lot of Russian poetry differently now.

When you have your life taken out of your control by some man with
a gun, it's difficult to take it back after you are free. Doing things
like working for samizdat rings and volunteering at rape crisis centers
are important steps in coming back to the human race from the land
of prisoners.

-patricia@cco.caltech.edu
From: qasama@guardian.WPI.EDU (John Grossi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: The least nationalistic nation
Date: 10 Sep 1992 11:37:50 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: guardian.wpi.edu

In article <1992Sep09.183156.18597@watson.ibm.com> galina@watson.ibm.com (Galina Kofman)_ writes:
>In  <1992Sep9.084220.9957@cco.caltech.edu>  patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz) writes:
>>
>> American poetry and literature don't offer me any comparable experience.
>> There are things I love about my own culture, but to me, Russian poetry
>> and literature is somehow more significant.
>>
>> -patricia
>>
>>
>Patricia, go to.... the library.
Start with Hemingway and go on to Thoreau, and on to.....
I think that your remarks about American poetry and prose as compared to
Russian poetry and prose is short sited; just because you have not read 
the right works from the large American cannon, does not mean they exist or
rather because you like Russian literature because it is foreign does not
mean American stuff is shit.

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________________
qasama@wpi.wpi.edu  / V   V OOOO TTTTT EEEE\ Always store beer in a dark place.
Worcester Polytech /_ _V V  O  O   T   EEE  \__ Moderation is for monks.
God save Lazurus Long!/ v   OOOO   T   EEEE    \ Women need no excuse.
From: avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim Antonov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: E-mail help needed
Date: 7 Sep 1992 16:21:20 -0400
Organization: Berkeley Software Design
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net

In article <1487@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca> hlynka@server.uwindsor.ca (Myron Hlynka) writes:
>>Those countries were the first to acquire UN recognition and tharefore
>>they were the first to get ISO country codes the domain names based on.
>
>The Ukrainian SSR and Belarussian SSR were founding members of the 
>United Nations in 1948(?) .
>
>                                 Myron Hlynka

Yes, they have designated top-level domains .UA and .BY, but those 
domains aren't officially registered yet (due to the lack of established
domain authority in .UA case (this will change RSN) and insufficient
amount of installations to justify registration of the domain in .BY
case. In practice it means that you need to use an explicit route
like user%domain.domain.UA@relay.eu.net. Aside this technical stuff,
their addresses already use .UA and .BY top-level domains.

As i already said, the .SU domain is going to be eventually abandoned
but not before all ex-SU countries will establish effective domain
authorities (and new domains get officially approved and registered
by SRI). Changing thousands of existing e-mail addresses is quite
a task as well. Fortunately countries do not disappear daily.

--vadim
From: AUSBROOK@iubacs.bitnet (Entropy Warrior)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Nastinessotry
Date: 9 Sep 92 03:58:00 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

>Why are you being so nasty to me? I haven't insulted you.
>
>This makes me feel really bad. Please do put me in your kill file,
>if I'm making such an unpleasant reaction in you.
>
>-patricia

Pay no attention to the poor, dead souls who rave here from time
to time and who, like Austria, have little to look forward to--
except their past.

-Mka
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: leonid@thyme.uchicago.edu (Leonid Andreev)
Subject: Re: What's Rakhov like?
Organization: University of Chicago CILS
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 15:52:42 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.042806.2569@cco.caltech.edu> patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz) writes:

>   While I am in Russia, I'll be attending a physics conference in Rakhov,
>   which (as of the printing date of my atlas) is near the Romanian
>   border of Ukraine in the Carpathian mountains.
>
>   Has anyone out there been to this place? What's it like?

I just wanna tell a few words 'bout the region - this piece of 
Ukraine in the Carpathian mountains ( "Zakarpatje" in Russian,
"Zakarpatt'a" in Ukrainian ). The place is really interesting!
In fact, this territory was `added' to the USSR only in 
1944(43?), latter than any other part of that nice empire.
Well, it is pretty understandable why Stalin couldn't resist
taking this small piece of land - it is a very important 
artery in communication with Eastern Europe. Actually, there
are Hungary, Checkoslovakia and Poland, who, in addition to 
Romania, have their borders around the place.
It was a part of Hungary before that; something like 50% of
the population still are Hungarians. Another 50% is a terrific
mix of, I suppose, all the European nations ever existed. The 
language they speak is something absolutely unbelievable: it's
half-Russian and another half, again, contains the words 
borrowed from all over the world... Mostly, these words are 
slavic, but some of them apparently have Romanic ( and 
maybe even Germanic? ) origin, like they use the word 
"umbrella" for ex.
So the place is really nice. Sort of a croossroad of old 
Europe. I'm sure you will enjoy it. ( One of the places of
interest they will definitely show you is the medieval
castle in the town of Mukachevo, not so far from Rakhov )

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Leonid S Andreev,    Center for Information and Language Studies,  |
|  (312) 955 5012        University of Chicago, Chicago IL, 60637.   |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: dolgov@inpbox.inp.nsk.su (Yuri V. Dolgov)
Subject: Anecdote !
Reply-To: dolgov@inpbox.inp.nsk.su
Organization: Budker Institute of Nuclear Physics SD RAS
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 92 14:19:19 +0700

Anecdote:

Wstrechayutsya dwa druga: odin s sinyakom pod glazom. Drugoj sprashivaet:
kak ty ego poluchil ?

- Byl ya na simfonicheskom koncerte. Kogda on konchilsya, wse wstali.
  Smotryu, u tuchnoj damy wperedi platye zastryalo meshdu yagoditz.
  Ya ego stal wytaskiwat', wot i poluchil...

...

Cherez nekotoroye wremya te zhe dwa druga snowa wstrechayutsya. Tot,
kto byl s sinyakom, woobcshe w gipse i bintah.

- Wchera hodil w kino. Posle seansa smotryu - wperedi ta zhe dama. I
  snowa - platye mezhdy yagoditz. Odin iz sosedej stal wytaskiwat' -
  ya emy goworyu - "Ona etogo ne lyubit" - i stal snowa zapichiwat'
  platye nazad...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yuri Dolgov                               Internet: dolgov@inp.nsk.su
Programmer                                Phone:    +7(3832)359 147
Budker Institute of Nuclear Physics       Novosibirsk, Russia.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
XEP BAM A HE CMETAHA                  | (I shalln't give you a cream.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yuri Dolgov                               Internet: dolgov@inp.nsk.su
Programmer                                Phone:    +7(3832)359 147
Budker Institute of Nuclear Physics       Novosibirsk, Russia.
From: dxper@dtek.chalmers.se (Per Anders Olausson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: St. Petersburg, HELP !!!***!!!
Date: 8 Sep 92 00:29:44 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg Sweden

muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky) writes:

>It also called "edinyi", but there are couple of various passes valid for
>10 days, 15 days and 1 month. There are around for quite a while (couple
>of years, at least). I'm not sure, but I think cost is linear with time.

  What about train travelling in Russia? Is it still possible to pay in
rubles if you are a foreigner?

  If so, are there any plans to withdraw this possibility in the near future?

pao
--
-------------------------------Andrew Olausson--------------------------------
--------------------------Unemployed Unix Specialist--------------------------
------------------------------pao@cd.chalmers.se------------------------------
-------------------------------pa-ola@proxxi.se-------------------------------
From: krainev@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Venichka ob Amerike. Tak im, ...
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:46:59 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services


In article <13747.2aafda51@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu>, vadim@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
>   The following is a quote from "Moskva Petushki" in russian.
>  I hope those who like this diamond will enjoy.
      B R A V O,  V A D I M !




> -V.   
    Thanks a lot,

    Sincerely, Arkadi.

    It is true diamond in russian underground literature.

Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:7594 talk.politics.soviet:7924
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Sources: BALTIC politics & culture
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:52:31 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

------------------------------------------------------------------
SOME INDISPENSABLE SOURCES FOR CONTEMPORARY BALTIC 
POLITICS, ECONOMY & CULTURE IN ENGLISH
------------------------------------------------------------------
There are two independent weekly newspapers in English that 
are worth reading: 

BALTIC INDEPENDENT (Tallinn) 
B.I., Subscription Dept., PO Box 100, Pa"rnu mnt 67a EE0090 Tallin
Eesti
Subscription: 48USD/year

BALTIC OBSERVER (Riga) 
Reports weekly on the page 2 about legislation in all three 
Baltic countries
Subs.: Subscriptions International Ltd., PO Box 785 EE 0029 Tallin
Eesti. 25 weeks 45 USD, 51v weeks 85 USD.

And I could warmly recommend this small encyclopedia (267p.):

Baltic States. A Refence Book. Tallin - Riga - Vilnius 1991.

ISBN 5 - 89900 - 017 -1
ISBN 5 - 89960 - 026 -8
ISBN 5 - 89950 - 015 -8

The Reference book opens with an introduction by professor
Rein Taagepera (the centrist presidential candidate):

"The Baltic states exist. Why say it, if you believe it? No one says
Sweden exists: it goes without saying. For the Baltic states, it has
to be said, because their reemergence from the totalitarian grip of
Soviet colonialism has been very recent. They were submerged to the
point where their continued existence was not manifest. Our perception
of the world always suffers some time lag, and the reestablishment
of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia has not yet sunk in - the more so,
since the Soviet occupation forces still interfere. It will be a long
time before the Baltic states will feel free and prosperous. But they
exist.

So they exist. Who cares? You do, if you are still with me..." 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Subject: Re: Cultural differences (Was Re: Who Is Afraid Of Patricia Schwarz?)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 13:29:49 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.12 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In  <LEONID.92Sep11150746@tuna.uchicago.edu>
leonid@tuna.uchicago.edu (Leonid Andreev) writes:
> Surely I am. As all the educated people know, Andreevs are one of
> the best noble families of Russia. Off course I am proud of bearing
> such an aristocratic name like this.

How can one be proud of something one did not earn ?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: f33012l@puukko.hut.fi (Janne Kivel{)
Subject: Re: "democratic" Estonia
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 11:08:02 GMT

muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky) writes:

>Listen Jarmo. When Finland became independend, what did you do with your
>Swedes? Did you ask those long-time occupants of your land to learn Finnish,
>before they can become citizens. No, they became citizens automatically.
>( you even where not satisfied with amount you have and got a hefty 
>extra at Allans :) ). Their language became second official language.
>And there are much less Swedes in Finland (at least now) than Russians
>in Estonia.

There were disputes between language groups in the early days of
Finnish independence. Finnish-speakers felt they were discriminated and
it was understandable, since Swedish was the language of the ruling class
in Finland when our country was part of Russian empire. 

Swedish-speakers who live in Finland are not Swedes, at least,
most of them don't think of it that way. They are as Finnish as I am
They have to learn Finnish at school as well as I have to learn Swedish.

I would not offer the Finnish model to the Estonians, since the circumstances
are hardly parallel. In some ways the language requirement would not seem
so unfair if the Estonians were required to demonstrate adequate skills
in Russian and I'm sure most of the ethnic Estonians could do that. Only
the emigrants returning to their old homeland would suffer.

>The point is not that those Russians should be easier accepted as citizens,
>the point is that it's should be automatical. They are there to stay.
>Only very stupid peoples starts new life with there roommates from quarrel,
>who is the boss. Fortunately not all Estonians are like that. The leader
>of National Front party seems to be decent guy.

Some of them would probably like to stay and some would like to retain
their Russian citizenship. The situation is open now and we'll have to
wait what happens to those who have applied for citizenship.

>As for information, Jarmo, you should learn Russian saying: "Zapretnyj plod 
>sladok". I would guess that average educated Russian have more information
>than average educated Finn. At least judging by some representatives :).

I'm glad you just guessed and did not present your argument as the truth
and nothing but the truth. :-)

>Yury

Janne Kivela"
From: covdy@shemesh.metaphor.com (Ivan Covdy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Russophob Belov
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:09:47 GMT

Remember that:

"I have not read the novel of Pasternak, but, as all Soviet people,
I angrily denounce this antisoviet bastard!"

It became classic, but looks not everybody know the classic.


Yes, I did read Belov's "Vse vperedi". I think that it's russophobic.
Judge for yourself:

There was a Russian guy and a Jewish guy.

The Russian guy was a bad guy: 
 - stupid; he destroyed his and his family life only because 
   of SUSPISION that his wife might had seen strip-tease when 
   she visited Paris;
 - not nice to his family: he divorced his wife and abondoned 
   his kids;
 - alkohol-addicted: he drinked a lot and was fired several times
   because of that;
 - he didn't fight (even passively) the Communist system.

The Jewish guy was a good guy:
 - he didn't drink a lot of vodka;
 - he was a good father and husband: he married that woman, who didn't
   see any respect from her former husband (the Russian guy) and
   adopted the kids who were abondoned by their father;
 - he was a hard-working man;
 - he didn't like the Soviet system so he decided to emigrate.


Hence, V.Belov and his "Vse vperedi!" is a russophobic novel.

Hope it helps.

-- 
  Ivan Covdy, covdy@shemesh.metaphor.com, METAPHOR Inc.,  CA,  USA
 *** People are looking for a Mind somewhere in the Universe,      ***
 *** because on the Earth they've been finding only the Stupidity. ***
From: muh@physics1 (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Koenigsberg/Kaliningrad
Date: 9 Sep 1992 07:28:51 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics1.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep8.085733.3364@nntp.hut.fi> f33012l@puukko.hut.fi (Janne Kivel{) writes:
>crossed the border. In the customs inspection sheet there was a question
>that asked if you were bringing weapons or ammunition. The exact amount
>of money you were carrying had to be written both in numbers and in letters.

What is funny in these questions? It's not legal to have weapon or ammo in
Russia without special permission, it's general practice to have numbers 
written both as numbers and words both in Russia and America (in financial
documents). As far as I remember both is true in Finland.

Yury
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Subject: Cultural differences (Was Re: Who Is Afraid Of Patricia Schwarz?)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:47:30 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.11b by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In  <1992Sep11.134141.28885@gtech.com>  ayr@gtech.com
(Aleksey Y. Romanov) writes:
> There is one big SOVOK( and xSOVOK)/american cultural difference: we(SOVOKs and
> xSOVOKs)  are untolerant to the idiotism. I am interesting is it a Russian
> tradition or is it one of the great _zavoevanij of socializm and result of
> building new man ( means _chelovek). I do not think it is our cultural
> advantage. However, it (good or bad) is part of our culture.
>
> What other cultural differences can you point out ?

Another difference relevant to this discussion on Pasternak's rock music is
that Russians are a lot less afraid of insulting each other during arguments
and for that reason would not avoid confrontations on such sensitive subjects
as religion and politics.
There are other differences (in friendship and general interests) but they are
not directly related to the "Patricia phenomena".

Oleg
From: muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Master and Margaret and other books
Date: 14 Sep 1992 08:30:20 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu

In article <9209140237.AA17321@feds66.Prime.COM> "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu> writes:
>
>being one, as well as overwhelming majority of my colleagues, aware that
>was Jacob who deceive ... and so on. Not Abel, sorry. Primite i proch.

Proshu proschenia u ni v chem ne povinnogo neba za protykanie ego pal'cem.

This does not change much. Ok, it was Jacob and Esau. Jacob is supposed
to be respected person, too.

>
>Not facial hair, also, but body (arms) hair.

See above about finger. 

>
>studies the observation that it was his brother Isav who sold him his
>descendant's rights for one bowl of cheap soup, being immediately justly
>punished for his lust and greed. As it might so be dangerous to also you.

Are you serious? Do you really think that Jacob's behaviour in this
case is an example for any decent man? BTW, have you been really hungry
in your life. This may be useful experience for you. Anyway, fooling
greedy or maybe reckless is not my ideal of decent person.

Yury

Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: mns6569@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: Russian poetry
Reply-To: mns6569@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 15:43:49 GMT

In article <1992Sep08.173506.21500@watson.ibm.com>, oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky) writes:
>In  <2508@cronos.metaphor.com>  covdy@cronos.metaphor.com (Ivan Covdy) writes:
>>
>> in article <1992Sep08.141151.24896@watson.ibm.com>,
>> bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.
>> com (Igor Belchinskiy) says:
>> >
>> [izdevatel'skie repliki v adres Shvarz opushcheny]
>>
>> Igorek, zatrahal svojej sovkovoj agressivnost'ju!
>> Che tak zol-to na amerikanok, a?
>> Baba kakaja-to ne dala, chto li?
>
>Vanya, a ty chego protiv Igorya opolchilsya ?
>Malchik kakoi-to ne dal, chto li ?
>
>Oleg


Ivan okazalsia prav, kak i ran'she. He seems to be the only voice of reason
on the soviet part of the net. No matter what you think about Ptricia's
literary pursuits, naivity or lifestyle, please do not accuse her personally
of being inccapable to understand russian soleor some such bull.
You might want to discuss her views with her or on the net, but stop the 
stupid potshots. 
I do not subscribe to either Patricia's understanding or love of Russian 
culture or her ideas of organically grown garlic, but the last time I checked
(admittedly before Hilary Clinton's "kids can sue their parents" ideas) this
was a semi-free conutry, where one can express their opinions on topics
ranging from garlic to Dr Zhivago.
The fact that Patricia spills a lot of personal (too personal for my taste)
experiance onto the net, should not make her a target of you shots, gentlemen!
The fact that she seems to be "otlichnitsa s kosichkami" type, does not take
away the fact that she is apparently a fairly intellegent and well spoken
person. At least try to argue with her on the same level.
And Ivan, once again I commend you on your calm behaviour among the flaming
assholes.
Mike.S
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: galina@watson.ibm.com (Galina Kofman)_
Subject: Re: Bulgakov
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:46:58 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In  <9209101335.AA12389@feds66.Prime.COM>  dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM (Dmitri Leschiner) writes:
>
>
> >there is so much to read without being mosachistic.
>
> Ooh, sure, but why not to?!

Are you sending me <gasp> to read books?  You know I am incapable of leaning ABC's.
Do you think with your pedagogical genius there still is a hope?
>
>
> ANTISEMIT BYL TVOJ DOSTOEVSKIJ, VOT CHTO.

MOJ, ves' MOJ?  Kak eto schedro s vashej storoni.
>
> >Galya.
>
> Dimulya.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet