From: ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.j.whitman)
Subject: TANGENT Re: Those Nasty Fundamentalists 
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:17:14 GMT

>In article <1992Aug15.062933.4516@aero.org> sco@aero.org (Stacey C. O'Brien) writes:

I missed your original followup, Stacey.  I'm responding to the parts that
John Cho included in his followup.  If you have a copy of your original
posting, could you email it my way?  

>   And this is my complaint - as originally stated - that fundementalists
>   are inaccurately represented. You seem to buy into that characterization.
>   I wonder how many Christians loathe fundementalists or are afraid of "them"
>   not realizing that their own interpretation of the Bible is fundementalist!
>   It's very strange and sad when Christians don't even understand this...

I have no problems believing that fundamentalists are misrepresented in
the media, and I know enough people who consider themselves fundamentalists
to know that they're not the raving, narrow-minded, hate-filled cartoon
figures that the media would have us believe.  Truth be told, I even
*like* some of these folks.  

My views of fundamentalists come from two primary sources - televangelists 
such as Jerry Fallwell and Pat Robertson, who I watch occasionally, and
people I know.  My former house was in a neighborhood next to a very
large fundamentalist church in the suburbs of Columbus, and most of
my neighbors attended that church.  These folks loved the Lord, were
highly moral people, and took the idea of being witnesses for Christ
very seriously, both in their words and their deeds.  So let me say
at the outset that the quarrels I have with their theology and
lifestyle take a back seat to those more important things.  These
people are my brothers and sisters in Christ, and I truly place a
high value on that.  So please understand that these criticisms are
coming from someone who is playing on the same team, and who thinks
teamwork is pretty important.  What I'm expressing is simply a difference 
of opinion on *some* issues.  On the big issues - who God is, who I am as 
a human being, and how to bridge the gap between a holy God and a sinful 
humanity - the fundamentalists and I are in absolute agreement.

>   >You can agree or disagree with my characterization.  I'm just stating
>   >it the way I see it.  But I don't want to be a fundamentalist, at 
>   >least not in the sense that the word is used today.  I'd prefer to
>   >call myself an evangelical, which, in my mind, means the same thing
>   >that the original fundamentalists meant, but without all the 
>   >excess cultural baggage.  
>
>   Right. I prefer that too, but it would be dishonest. I will admit that I
>   was SHOCKED when I discovered that my denomination is theologically
>   fundementalist! I had to ask several pastors before I would believe it!

But fundamentalism, at least in my way of thinking, has to do with a lot
more than theology.  As I said before, I have no problems with the 
*theology* of fundamentalist Christianity.  In terms of the basic
tenets of the faith, we'd probably agree right down the line.  

My problems have to do with lifestyle issues, and with what I perceive
to be extra-biblical issues concerning politics, nationalism, and
interaction with the secular culture.  (I guess I should also note
for non-American readers that I'm reacting specifically to the 
fundamentalism in the American Protestant church.  I have no idea
whether these characteristics apply in other countries.)  I'll at
least try to give you an idea of where I'm coming from:

Lifestyle Issues - It's the usual list of culprits that gets to me -
rock 'n roll, drinking, smoking, movies, dancing, etc.  I have no
problems with any Christian who chooses to abstain from any or 
all of these activities.  I *do* have problems with the idea
that these activities should be automatically taboo for Christians.
Like so many other areas of life, I view these matters as between
the individual and God.  That means that they may be okay for some
people, but not for others.  No doubt some will find my views to
be hopelessly compromised by liberal thinking.  So be it.  I can
live with that.  It would be nice if you could live with me too.

Politics - I'm not a Republican.  I'm not a Democrat.  I'm a Christian.
I think it's extremely important not to confuse political parties and 
God's will.  The church, throughout its history, has consistently
gotten itself into trouble when it aligns itself with a particular
ruler or political ideology.  You'd think that we might have learned
by now.  Jerry Fallwell hasn't learned.  Neither have the folks in
my old neighborhood.  Vote for a political candidate because you 
believe that he or she will do the least amount of damage to other
people in a sorry, fallen, godless world.  But if you're voting for 
someone because you believe that he or she has God's stamp of approval,  
be assured that you have been deceived. 

Nationalism -  I believe that God loves America.  I believe that
he loves Croatia.  I believe that he loves Cuba and Nicaragua too.
I believe that the U.S. government is corrupt, power-hungry, and 
chiefly interested in its own perpetuation, just like most other
governments in the world.  What's God got to do with it?  Not much.
I do my best to avoid churches that display flags.

Interaction with the Secular Culture - Fundamentalists believe that
the world is full of secular humanists who are out to brainwash
their children into thinking that the supernatural is a bunch of
hooey and that God is one of those quaint notions left over from
the Stone Age.  They're right.  So they create an alternative
culture, complete with its own schools, television programs, 
music, and superstars.  I send my kids to public schools, play
rock 'n roll for them, let them watch "Doogie Howser" and "The
Simpsons."  Then we talk about what they've seen and heard.
We go through this programming/de-programming routine all the
time.  I don't know.  They may grow up to be godless heathen.
I'll have to wait and see.  But I'm praying, and praying 
fervently, for their souls, and I'm praying that I'm doing
the right thing by immersing them in the culture rather than
isolating them from it.  Time will tell.   

Those are the principle areas of disagreement.  

>   >I don't mean this to be a personal attack, on you or anyone else on 
>   >this newsgroup.  Fundamentalists are my brothers and sisters, and 
>   >that takes primacy over whatever other internal squabbles we may
>   >have.  I'm just trying to provide an alternate viewpoint.  There
>   >*are* theologically conservative Christians out there who don't 
>   >want to be labelled as fundamentalists.  That's all.
>
>   No,I'm sure you didn't mean it as a personal attack, but now I am wondering
>   if it was "ok" to say that I'm a fundementalist theologically. Will I be
>   avoided, shunned from the group? Will you all think I'm some kinda dirtbag
>   or wierdo? Will my views be ignored? Are you afraid I'll come on board with
>   a list of don'ts? Well, let me say this : My favorite band is
>   Tourniquet and I dance. So there ;-) I even listen to secular music (*gasp)
>   and have "secular" friends (double gasp) and in other words, I'm not
>   the stereotype you're thinking of (really! it's true!) sigh. I'm feeling
>   insecure now about having said anything...

Hey, I'm glad you shared your views.  I certainly want no part of 
avoiding or shunning, and I'll go on record as saying that although
I've encountered my share of Christian head cases, bizarros, and
weirdos, I've yet to encounter a Christian dirtbag :-).  I really
hope you *don't* feel insecure about posting your beliefs.  And I
take your comment about stereotypes to heart.  I find that 
stereotypes sometimes fit groups of people, but hardly ever fit
individuals.  I think that's kind of neat, and I try to remember
that I'm responding to individuals, and not to some overblown
caricature.  Please keep posting, Stacey.

Andy Whitman
AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus, Ohio
att!cblpn!ajw  or
ajw@cblpn.att.com