HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,talk.abortion,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Robertson Roulette OCA=CC=CBN="family values"=?=GOP
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:11:46 GMT
	<1992Oct15.203804.27419@brtph560.bnr.ca>
Organization: Luke14:26, the "Kristian" paradox, the Devil's work in the name of Jesus

In article <1992Oct15.203804.27419@brtph560.bnr.ca> 
ingrcfb@bnr.ca (Charles Board) writes:
>In article <ldprb8INNbkv@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> Eric Marsh
>>Church & State
>>October 1992
>>                     Robertson Roulette
>>                     by Joesph L. Conn
>> The Bush Campaign needs The Religious Rights Support, But
>>         Can The Average American Voter Stand Pat?
>[long fascinating & frightening article deleted]
>Any one else getting the feeling that we (the U.S.) are edging towards a civil
>war between those who support a constitutional democracy on the one hand and
>those who would impose a fundamentalist, theocratic dictatorship?

This has historically been a problem in the US. We are stuck on bipolar
good-bad thought, for some reason. We are always fighting some "EVIL EMPIRE",
often a foreign foe but sometimes our own people, our own country. We sell
ourselves as the only "true" democracy in the world, as the inventors of
democracy as if democracy did not exist prior to the US Constitution and
Bill of Rights and did exit after. We see ourselves as the agent of good in
an inherintly evil world, the global police, always having to solve all the
world's problems and bail out the Europeans once again, the agents of the
New World Order, the New Romans, in charge of the empire to end all empires.
We as a nation have a great deal to learn about the rest of the world and
even our own "world".

>I hate to
>sound sensationalistic, because I don't think these people could enlist enough 
>"average Americans" to pose a threat as things stand today.

The Kristian Koalition has all but taken over one of the two political parties
and is about to test its ability to advance Pat Robertson's "family values"
agenda in the state government of Oregon. The theocratic threat is real.

>But a cataclysmic
>(sp?) event like a second Great Depression (a VERY real threat as we are only
>three years from reaching the point that INTEREST PAYMENTS eat up 90% of the
>national personal income tax receipts) could easily send people running to
>simplistic, fascist movements such as this. 

The timing of the coming US fiscal crisis is variable, there are a lot of
factors, but it will happen, certainly total disaster awaits the retirement
of the baby boomers when social security is revealed to be the ponzie scheme
that it is. Financial disaster has been the impetus of fascism before, there
is little reason to believe it can not happen again.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Tyre still exists today (was: I'm God.)
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<70559@hydra.gatech.EDU>
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 06:06:34 GMT

In article <70559@hydra.gatech.EDU> 
rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
>Again, my encyclopedia didn't cover this.

You're really getting serious in your research, aren't you? I hate to
ask what encyclopedia you are using, probably some more Christian propaganda.

>In article <13707@pogo.wv.tek.com> 
daveb@pogo.wv.tek.com (Dave Butler) writes:
>|    He who begins by loving Christianity better than truth, will proceed
>|    by loving his own sect of the Church better than Christianity, and end by
>|    loving himself better than all.
>|				Samuel Taylor Coleridge

In article <70559@hydra.gatech.EDU> 
rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
>Assumption that the truth is different from Christianity leads to 
>the above, else you can't make this statement.  However, the concern is
>of merit.

Kind of sums things up nicely doesn't it?
From: MSW@MPLVAX.SRI.COM (Mark S. Williams - Ag213)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Is life too hard? or A Spiritual Exercise
Date: 9 Oct 92 05:49:24 GMT
Organization: Molecular Physics Laboratory, SRI International, Menlo Park, CA


If life is too hard, sing HU, and ancient name for GOD. It's a love
song to GOD. Do it like this: HUUUUUUUU....(pronounced like the man's
name Hugh). It represents the love of GOD for Soul. And we are Soul.

Singing HU out loud or quietly to yourself for 20 minutes a day with
your eyes closed (preferably at the same time each day) will help you
have a greater connection to GOD, and the Light and Sound of GOD, or
Spirit.

The Light can be seen as a blue star or dot of light (sometimes other
colors). The Sound can be heard as a ringing in the ears or other sounds
such as thunder, the sound of a waterfall, bells, running water, bees,
or a flute.

Regardless of your beliefs or religion, you can sing HU to become happier
and more secure in GOD's love.

If you would like more information about HU, let me know.

Mark Williams
msw@mplvax.sri.com
From: slhw4@cc.usu.edu (Jason Hunsaker)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Mormonism & Christianity
Date: 16 Oct 92 13:21:02 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Oct16.173905.28599@newsgate.sps.mot.com>,
 ACUS10@WACCVM.SPS.MOT.COM (Mark Fuller) writes:
> tensmekl@infonode.ingr.com (Kermit Tensmeyer)
[...]
>> Not all refereces in the NT that talk about "salvation" could be
>> the same as references to exalation.
> 
> And none of these verses speak of devil-repellent underwear,

"Devil-repellent underwear" is your term and Barry's not ours.

If I wanted to offend some people, I might start inquiring about
the "devil-repellant" crucifixes they wear, and do they really
repell the devil (aside from what Hollywood tells us). Or are
they rather a symbol to remind the person of something.

> bloody (Masonic) oaths, 

"Bloody (Masonic) oaths" is not justified.  The similarities
between the Masonic rites and the LDS Temple ceremonies is
superficial.

Even if there is more than a superficial connection, please
show us how Masonry is inherently un- or anti- Christian.

> goofing around with some guy behind a veil, etc...          

Just what are you trying to imply by "goofing around withsome guy
behind a veil".

> Hard to beleive rejecting all this puts a person in a postion
> of eternal damnation.

Yes, it is, because it doesn't.

In case you forgot, (most) Mormons believe that everyone will be
saved in a kingdom of glory except the sons of perdition.  They
are the ones that suffer eternal damnation.  They are cast into
"outer darkness" which is a kingdom, but not a kingdom of glory.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Hunsaker  -|-  Logan, Utah  -|-  Internet: slhw4@cc.usu.edu
Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:18569 talk.abortion:43181 alt.politics.homosexuality:6480
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,talk.abortion,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Obviously an appeal for Drug Control...
From: kmagnacca@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:41:04 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <1992Oct16.232251.26102@wetware.com>, drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux) writes:
> pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) writes:
> ] In article <1992Oct14.143344.19043@wetware.com> 
> ] drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux) writes:
> ] >Modern Day Problems:
> ] >In any case, don't give up, just type slower :-).
> ] >Chimo
> ] >Bob.
> ] 
> ] Yo, I get the BoB part, but what's a Chimo? Is that street lingo for chimera
> ] or Qui-mo as in Qui-mo sabe? How's 'bout a little 411 for a change, know
> ] what I'm sayin'?
> 
> 
> Children,
> 
> This is what happens to people who have been 
> suffering from Years of Hard Drug Abuse....
> 
> Don't Let Your Brain Turn out to be just
> another Side order of HashBrowns and Bacon
> next to Eggs Sunny Side up....
> 
> ciao
> drieux
> 
> ps: the Clue is a Small Island off the Coast of the PRC,
> name the combatants, the Year, and Why it is Significant
> for a Special Bonus Prize....

   Well, maybe he would have recognized it if you had spelled 
it Quemoy like it usually is.

> pps: and why didn't he crosspost it to alt.hip.hop.hip.hop.bunny.rabbit?

   Bunny rabbits don't involve themselves in Sino-Taiwanese
disputes.

Karl
From: pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: How do they do it?
Date: 17 Oct 92 04:01:00 GMT
Reply-To: pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley)
Organization: Do they make a washing powder called Caliban Automatic?

In article <1992Oct16.171426.14059@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> gsmith@lauren.uucp (Gene W. Smith) writes:
>In article <Bw5zvE.62I@dcs.ed.ac.uk> pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley) writes:
>
>>Free will does seem to me a ludicrous concept.  The distinction you
>>are trying to make between events that occur because a choice has been
>>made and those which occur without choice is artificial.

[my example of arachnophobia constraining choice]

>Curious.  This sort of thought experiment seems to me to cut the other
>way.  That is, whether or not one is really a free agent, it is hard not
>to feel oneself to be.  

This is my point, that 'choice' is an attribute of the way we think
about events, not a property of the events themselves.

>If you have no real choice, then it seems to me
>that it ought to be possible to let go of the illusion of chosing and
>having to decide, and just let events take their course.

I don't see why.  We are more likely to be constrained about how we
think about our own heads than about almost anything else.  We *are* the
events that are taking their course, so of course we have to do it.

>[...] it is not a good example of what ordinary behavior is like.

Well, it's on one end of a continuum of how pushed we are about a
decision.  Somewhere further down comes me sitting at my terminal
finding that I can't drag myself away from t.r.m to go to my lecture...

[I said you can sometimes guess what people will do]

>For any range of behavior, it is always possible to define an automaton
>which will produce that behavior.  But this tells us nothing about what
>is actually producing the behavior.

Do you mean an automaton that acts as people actually acted in a given
situation, like a sort of walking video recorder?  Or as they might act
in any given situation?  If the former, it says nothing about my point
about being able to guess what people might do.  If the latter, then
choice is necessarily illusory, by the Two Clocks argument -- we can't
be making a choice by free will if the machine can anticipate it.

[you can talk about chess computers making choices.]

>This is a strange analogy, despite how common it has become.  If the
>chess computer is really aware, 

I don't think that chess computers are aware, but I still use 'choice'
to describe their final output.  I think that it won't be more than ten
years before we start to use the word 'self-aware' to describe the
behaviour of some (still very primitive) systems.  This is mostly
because I don't think that self-awareness is the big deal that Nagel
(among others) thinks it is.

...which is why I sign myself
  __                                ____
\/ o\ Paul Crowley pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk \  /
/\__/ "I'm the boy without a soul"   \/
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: OR anti-hate org. address
From: <SECBH@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Wednesday, 7 Oct 1992 18:50:33 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

Since posting a few articles on the situation in Oregon where a coalition
of Right Wing Christian groups are campaigning for the inclusion of an
amendment to the state constitution with the intention of depriving
homosexuals in that state of the equal protection of the law, and which
would mandate that public schools teach that homosexuals are wrong, abnormal
and wicked I have been asked by e-mail several times for the name and
address of an organization which is fighting against this proposition.

The group is non-sectarian and is not affiliated with any political party:

        Campaign for a Hate-Free Oregon
        No on 9 Fund
        PO Box 3343
        Portland, OR  97208
        (503) 232-4501


Jack Carroll
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: agr00@ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Mormon Usenet Forum
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:13:41 GMT
Reply-To: agr00@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <13OCT199201033305@acad3.alaska.edu> ksjwr@acad3.alaska.edu (REDELSS JOHN W) writes:
>In article <1992Oct13.054255.21734@macc.wisc.edu>, bunner@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Dana A. Bunner) writes...
>>Ok, it's time for a show of hands.  How many of you who voted against
>>putting the LDS discussion into a unique USENET forum now regret it?
>
>I would like a newsgroup specifically for Mormon related discussion.  I would
>like even better a place where Mormons could meet on Usenet and meet with each
>other rather than spend most of their time defending themselves from vicious
>attacks.  Some of these Mormon bashers are reminiscent of the hate mongers that
>stirred up the mob that shot the Prophet.  It's a good thing they are scattered 
>around the country on computer terminals.  If they ever got into the same room,
>things could get ugly.
>
>I vote yea.

Personaly, I would like to shake hands, sit down with a cup of coffee,
(oops, I mean lemonade), and talk things out like rational human beings.

I don't hate Mormons, I love them!  Many of my closest friends are LDS,   d
we do sit and discuss these things like humans.

My love for Mormons is the reason I am doing what I am doing.  I want to
see them after this life!
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Idaho
Date: 8 Oct 92 19:32:41 GMT
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc
Organization: Apple

In article <1992Oct8.150649.24255@csrd.uiuc.edu>, skinner@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu
(Gregg M. Skinner) wrote:
> >I guess it was a naive attempt to map this Idaho joke to those
> >who don't believe Jesus was a God.
> 
> It's not necessary to guess.  I stated that the post relates to the
> criticism that most "evidence" for "Jesus" comes from believers.
> 
> Nothing more, nothing less.

And the criticism is actually valid. There's no joke to state that
history tells us that Jesus was God, when all these comments originate
from believers that mangle historical records to suite their needs.

You know, I would gladly accept Jesus as the savior et all, if we 
had at least something far more tangible. The reason I don't believe
in the Gospels is the exact reason I don't believe in the Walking
Jew as well. People documented this fact (tale) extensively, and there
are few that accept that these historical records are real facts. Same
with the eh, mystery of Saint Germain, the man who never died due to
historical records. So we all should believe this now as well, because
it's documented?

Cheers,
Kent

	Faith is often the boast of the man who is too lazy to	investigate. -F.M.
Knowles
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.
From: farkas@qual.Eng.Sun.COM (Frank Farkas)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Mormons are not Christians
Date: 7 Oct 1992 23:57:59 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: farkas@qual.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: qual

From press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Mormons are not Christians
Date: 6 Oct 92 23:58:34 GMT




Barry Olson wrote:

>I have no intention of becoming embroiled in yet another round of
>LDS doublethink posing as a good argument for another Jesus, but I 
>would like to re-emphasize this position of Grace only with works
>resulting from that Grace.
>The doctrine of Grace+plus Works leaves a believer in a state of
>constant guilt. They never know if they have done enough! This leaves
>them in the uneviable position to be exploited by any fast-talking yokel
>with a pseudo channel to God to lay more guilt on such a believer that
>they haven't done enough. It's a vicious circle folks. Don't get
>caught in that trap. Our Lord came to free us from the bondage of
>guilt and slavery to fast talking yokels who prrey on the sincere of
>heart.

>We now return to our normal programming.

Barry, it looks like that you know diddly about LDS believes, yet you 
want to look like an expert, who knows more about what we believe in
then we know our own self.

#1- You should know that we believe that only the sons of perditions
    will be denied to go to heaven. We know that we won't go to hell,
    and I personally know that you won't (you know too little).

#2- Works has to do with rewards, not with salvation.

I Corint 3:13-15
****************
"Every man's work shall be made manifast: for the day shall declare it, because
it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what
sort it is."

"If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive
a reward."

"If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer a loss: but he himself 
shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

3#- You got it all backwards. Since I became a member of the LDS church I never 
    heard a fire and brimstone sermon. We don't scare our members and we don't
    keep them in line with the threat that they will go to hell if they don't
    behave. You are confused us with some other churches.

By the way Barry, I just read your response regarding Re: MIND-CONTROL By ORTHODOX
Religions, dated 7 Oct 92 02:34:35 GMT which dealt with the same subject. It
seams like that other denomination who are having the problem. Is it possible that
you got the LDS confused with the Missouri Synod Lutheran and the Wisconsin 
Evangelical Lutheran Synod???? -:) 


With brotherly love,

		Frank
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Jesus was a man, was Is it Christian values or chavinism?
Date: 16 Oct 92 02:10:30 GMT
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc
Organization: Apple

In article <71381@hydra.gatech.EDU>, rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard
Pitts) wrote:
> 
> In article <ksand-141092193710@wintermute.apple.com> ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:
> |Richard, as usually I'm quite curious to see how you are trying to
> |map that in the beginning there was the Word, to the statement that
> |Jesus is God. It clearly demonstrates the facts that humans have 
> |a very good creative mind, indeed!

> No, it doesn't - read John chapter 1 and see who you thing the Word is,
> please.  Let us know what you think.

Sorry, you have a far better fantasy than I, so I'm still waiting 
to find the answer in the Bible, instead of figuring out what the
Word maybe means.

Cheers,
Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.
From: slhw4@cc.usu.edu (Jason Hunsaker)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Mormons are not Christians
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:43:46 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Oct15.202458.26857@newsgate.sps.mot.com>,
 ACUS10@WACCVM.SPS.MOT.COM (Mark Fuller) writes:
[...]
> And, how did Eve become deceived?
> 
> And the serpent said to the woman, Ye will not certainly die; but God
> knows that in the day ye eat of it, your eyes will be opened, 
> and ye will be as God, knowing good and evil. (Ge 3:4-5)
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> And what is the luring promise of Mormonism?  that we may become Gods,
> Just as God became God.

"And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us,
to know good and evil: ..." (Genesis 3:22.)

Seems to me that the lie Satan told was not "ye will be as
God, knowing good and evil" but rather "ye will not surely die".

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Hunsaker  -|-  Logan, Utah  -|-  Internet: slhw4@cc.usu.edu
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Subject: Re: LDS Syllogism? ( was Re: Arrogance (was Family values defined))
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 23:38:02 GMT
Organization: Apple
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc

In article <70495@hydra.gatech.EDU>, rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard
Pitts) wrote:
> Peru - today just on the radio they mentioned the sentencing or arrest
> of one of the leaders of the Shiny Path Gorillas (I said Shiny Back above).
> My information says that the gorillas do not want the gospel preached
> to the natives and that is why the two above mentioned people were killed.

My information about the situation in Peru is based on articles in
Newsweek and Time. However these state that the guerilla is a form of
a later day communist-peasant political massmovement. It's not based
on religious warfare, unless we want to call communism a form of
a religion. So your statement is not really true, but I'm not 100%
sure because I'm not an expert on current day Peru.

> |Actually the only ones I could think of are really local small
> |ones that don't get a lot of media attention, those could be 
> |huge, however as stated before we are not dealing with huge
> |wars based on religious differences. There's actually one
> |war front based on the clash between Islam and native religions,
> |and that's Sudan. Anyway, I think you just want to believe that
> |we are at the final days, the problem is that it's darned hard
> |to find those huge wars Jesus predicted :-).
 
> Islam does not like Christians for we say that God has a Son and 
> they say he does not.  Ask them.

Yes, their religion acknowledges Jesus, while Christianity doesn't 
acknowledge Mohammed as the last big prophet. I do know that there
could be possibilities for sad wars between Christianity and Islam,
however as it looks today the world does not have any huge wars,
and it's a sore thing amongst all the Armageddon believers. Anyway, I'm
not hoping for big wars, and I truly hope fundamentalist Christians
would neither speculate in possible wars that just kill innocent people.

Kent

	Faith is often the boast of the man who is too lazy to	investigate. -F.M.
Knowles
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.