From: nestabro@nova.gmi.edu (Noel Estabrook)
Subject: Re: What do you do when your child thinks Metallica is cool?
Organization: GMI Engineering&Management Institute, Flint, MI
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 00:47:12 GMT

jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner) writes:

>it might be helpful to know what their false doctrine -is- before
>you try to counter it.

If I don't know it, I can always ask.
>> out error and shine the light. 

>you may not have to go to a sacrificial ceremony (i never suggested
>such a thing), but you'd better know what the Satanic bible says
>before trying to counter it with what the Bible says. do you realize
>how many satanists there are who have been falsely accused of what
>Christians -assumed- they believed out of ignorance of what they
>really believed?

Again, if I'm in doubt, I can ask.  Satanism is really quite simple, though.
They believe Satan is the evetual victor and Christ is the enemy.

>> Aaah, but I don't do that.  I say CHRIST is right, you're wrong, 
>> and here is the evidence for it.  I will be the first to denounce 
>> faith in something not believed (which is what blind faith really 
>> is).  But faith in something we KNOW to be true is never blind.

>wait, how do you know what it is they believe, when you say "you're
>wrong"? and where is your evidence? because the Bible says so?
>what if i don't believe the Bible? where are you then? how do you
>KNOW the Bible is true? because it says so? that's circular reasoning,
>as well as blind, and completely unnecessary.

Well, if they don't believe in Christ, they're wrong.  Simple.  I can go
into scads of evidence (I'm not stupid), but I won't waste the bandwidth
to preach to the choir.

>you realize, of course, that you are using the -exact- same argument
>that Jehovah's Witnesses use when their beliefs are challenged.
>"I have studied these things in my heart and KNOW them too be true."

Not true.  I never say I "know it in my heart".  I point to Scripture,
and if they don't accept that, it's their responsibility.

>listen very, very, carefully: YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE BLIND. no one does.

We ARE blind, like it or not.  We are so incredibly stupid, it's not
even funny.

>we do not have to be nothing for Christ to be great. he will be great

Paul kind of thought you did.

>> >is it any wonder that few bother to listen?
>> 
>> Few bother to listen because Christ's truths are hard.  People have 
>> hardened their hearts.

>what will you do to soften them?

Preach the Truth in love.

>> Scripture says, "every man is without excuse". 

>but they will attempt to use them anyway. how will you challenge them?
>with words from a book they don't believe?

We preach the message, the Holy Spirit convinces.

>they'll be in hell, and God (and you) will wonder why you didn't try 
>harder.

I don't agree.

>is it useless if people come to Christ because of it?

Philosophy will NEVER bring someone to Christ.


I was going to respond to this post point by point, but as always, Scripture
is far superior:

"For it is written, 'I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the 
cleverness of the clever I will set aside'.  Where is the wise man?  Where
is the debater of this age?  Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the 
world?  For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did
not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the
message preached to save those who believe...because the foolishness of 
God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men...
but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and
God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are
strong...that no man should boast before god...And when I came to you,
brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, 
proclaiming to you the testimony of God.  For I determined to know 
NOTHING among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified, and I was with
you in weakness and in fear and in much tremmbling, And my message and
my preaching were not in _persuasive_ words of wisdom, but in demonstration
of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not rest on the wisdom
of men, but on the power of God." (I Cor. 1:19-2:5).  And we all know
how educated and intelligent Paul was, yet how did he choose to preach?
I'll take Paul's way.  

--
Noel Estabrook			|	Your religion is what you
nestabro@nova.gmi.edu         --|--     do after the sermon is over.
Instructional Design & Tech.    |     
Michigan State University       |               Romans 12:2
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian