From: godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de
Subject: Re: The Good Woman of Bangkok
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 11:33:34 GMT

In article <C1GC5L.3v6@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, ssg9328@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Samart Srijumnong) writes:
> messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk) writes:
> 
>>........ stuff deleted
> 
>>Sigh...  I give up.  For two or three weeks I have been
>>repeating (along with others) that prostitutes DO NOT
>>necessarily reflect badly on the country, and that certainly NO
>>ONE is blaming Thailand for this universal phenomenon.  I have
>>a feeling we are not speaking the same language, or perhaps
>>some people have their minds made up and don't even bother to
>>read the posts.
> 
>>You're right, let's stop this thread.  Any discussion requires
>>that people actually listen besides speaking.  It doesn't seem to
>>be the case here.
> 
>>t
> 
> Wait, Khun Tony, please don't give up. IMO, the harshness of discussion
> about Thai prostitution is much less severe than the effect of the 
> problem itself. We have lived with the problem for so long that it is
> taken for granted. Prostitution is the most important problem in 
> Thailand is because we HAVEN'T SEEN IT AS THE PROBLEM. The suggestion
> to drop it from the discussion, IMO, is simply reflecting our frustration
> of not having been able to do anything about it. Many of us (of course,
> including me) feel guilty of allowing such problem prevail and yet we
> haven't been able to do nor have done anything about it. 
> 
> Nonetheless, I would say, as Khun Bunlur had, how we put all these 
> discussions into practice. If what I said is true that prostitution 
> has not been regarded as a severe problem, how could we make the 
> THAI public aware of this problem? I believe most s.c.t readers are 
> well aware as such. But how about those who are not s.c.t. regular 
> readers? How about those who have deciding power in Thailand? How 
> about the Thai press?
> 
> Dr. Godfrey may not be my most favorite poster but he has done
> excellent job in giving us details into the phenomenon. Many might be
> ready to accept prostitution as a serious problem but they may be even
> more alert after reading such detailed texture of the situation (e.g. 
> prices.)
> 

Well, well, Khun Samart!  I'm not your favourite poster?  Could this
perhaps be because you have lost face over the cmu incident?  You left
it to the readers to say whether they thought your defence of cmu was
convincing and we had 3 against, none for, and a few emails to me saying
that your case was not convincing - total around 6 against, none for if you 
believe me about the email.  I've nothing against you, but I can't help feeling
 that you're not as willing to discuss certain aspects of Thailand as some of
your postings suggest.

Now, on prostitution, I can't quite see how my providing prices in response
to a rather childish poster with a tendency to exaggerate has helped to open
the discussion, especially as prices are frequently quoted in the English-
speaking Thai newspapers and elsewhere, but I'm quite willing to carry on
the discussion anyway.  My point of view is that Thais often tackle problems
by looking for a simplistic solution - eg.  we have corruption? simple, lets
appoint a Minister for Corruption and it'll go away!  People pay bribes to
government officials?  Simple, anyone who has paid a bribe can go to a
specially created government office and, on proof of having paid a bribe,
they can get their money back!  Prostitute have AIDS?  Simple, we'll check
them all for HIV and any girls found to have AIDS will be ordered to stop
working!  There is a high incidence of AIDS in the army? Simple, anyone who
is found to have AIDS will be dismissed!  Various sex-for-sale establishments
have been publicising the fact that some of their customers are ministers?
Simple, make it illegal for these establishments to reveal the names of
any ministers who have been their customers!   A girl has fallen into a pit
in the crocodile farm in Bangkok and has been killed?  Simple, her family
will be refunded the cost of the funeral!  These are all real examples.

My point is that arguments about whether the bargirls or good or bad people etc.
are irrelevant, and trying to tackle the problem in isolation (if indeed,
it is recognised to be a problem) is simplistic.The high incidence of
prostitution arises from much more fundamental defects in Thai society,
social organisation, the economy, management of the police, licensing of
businesses etc.  Also they exist because a significant number of Thai people
want them to exist - those Thai men who use prostitutes (a very substantial
proportion), those who make money from the tourist sex industry, the police
chiefs who benefit from the trade, the hotels and other tourist-related
industries that depend on it etc.


regards Laurence
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai