From: kwelch@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Geisha Dawn)
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
Subject: Re: next
Date: 15 Apr 92 18:13:36 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

David
>Kevin
>>David


>>>>When you get pregnant, that's not an accident.  Something or somebody
>>>>faulted in decision making.

>>>But would'nt you say practically *all* "accidents", car or otherwise, are due to
>>>a fault in decision making?


>>I say that there is no such thing as an accident.

>Ac.ci.dent, n. 1. an undesirable or unfortunate happening, unintentionally
>caused and usually resulting in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty;
>mishap *automobile accidents* (dictionary has this in italics). 


>2. any event that happens unexpectedly, without a deliberate plan or cause.

>Taken from the Random House Dictionary (big thick one; must be good ;-)

>I have been using the above definition. That is what I condider to be an
>'accident'.  I would say that ther *is* such a thing as an accident by
>the above definition. You are clearly in the minority in thinking there is
>no such thing as an accident, just judging by this morning's paper.

Accident:  (My definition)
1.	A happening that is not expected, forseen, intended.
2.	An unpleasant and unintended happening, sometimes resulting from
	negligence, that results in injury, loss, damage, etc.
6.	LAW an unforseen event that occurs without anyone's fault or negligence

This is from Webster's New World Dictionary (A big, thick one, too :-)

Now, David.  My premiss was that there was no accident if there was fault.
I did not say that it had to be intentional.  Your definition uses the
word intentional:

>unintentionally caused

Whether it is unintentional is irrelevant.  I don't intend to hit anyone
when I change lanes.  BUT, if I don't look in my mirrors, I made a fault
in my judgment and caused a wreck that could have been avoided.

My premise is that accidents occur without fault.  Such is my definition,
reinforced by Websters.

>I would also say that an unwanted pregnancy fits this description very well
>also. It was unexpected.

Sure it was.  But was someone or something to blame?


>The purpose for an abortion is to end a pregnancy. The purpose of an abortion
>is to end a pregnancy.

No, no, no.

>Nobody I have spoken to about your differentiationj
>can make sense of it.

Larry suggested that I was talking about purpose OF while he was talking
about purpose FOR.

>Even the pro-lifers I discuss your posts with. They 
>are in fact quite angry with you for, in their words, "making us look bad."

Like who?

That's fine.  If they don't want to side with me, that's there prerogative.
And I don't like them any less for doing such.  I argue for myself.  I say
things for myself.  If someone asks me to speak for him/her, I will.

Prolifers have different attitudes about method.  Be it as it may, I am more
aggressive and not affraid to mow people in the process.

I see one goal in my sights:  to end abortion, not to make other lifers
like me.  Besides, I've talked to a bunch and they seem to like me well
enough.

Perhaps you are lying, but I can't prove that.  If you are lying to put
in a cheap shot and make me stop posting, well, guess again, buddy.  I
would just assume yell obsenities at you if you are lying.

(Note, if any lifer out there has something to say about me - ie "get lost,
Kevin" type deal...let me know.  It's okay :)


>>Bottom line:  moral to get aid if in wreck.
>>	       immoral (my view) and unethical to get abortion...not aid.

>Both, by above definition, accidents.


>You are correct, however. It does appear that, in your view, it is immoral
>and unethical to get an abortion, even if it aids the ending of an unwanted
>pregnancy.

True.


>> Of course we are all talking about human abortions here.  I
>>have never seen a bunch of rhinos prop a female rhino up and rip out a
>>rhino fetus in a clinic...gimmie a break.
>>

>I am not picking on semantics to be irritating, I am making sure we are talking
>about the same things.

I realize that words are important in such a debte.  But I think everyone
knows we're talking about human abortion here, and the fate of human life.


>-- 
>
>**************************************************************************
>Corrected .sig for those who did not see the absurdity of the original one.
>**************************************************************************

welch

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