From: nmcb@dante.nmsu.edu (Yolanda Thompson)
Subject: Re: Classes with disabled
Organization: New Mexico State University, Las Cruces, NM
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 06:57:18 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.081339.17085@rat.csc.calpoly.edu> sludi@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Stephanie Ann Ludi) writes:
>In article <1992Dec13.213809.12734@nmsu.edu> nmcb@dante.nmsu.edu (Yolanda Thompson) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec8.012628.345@colorado.edu> cdash@moet.cs.colorado.edu (Charles Shub) writes:
>>>In almost a quarter century of teaching, I've$had$my share of students
>>>with handicapping conditions, ranging from difficulties in hearing or 
>>>seeing to difficulties in mobility or ability to use equipment to
>>>learning disabilities to psychologocial considerations.  Every time
>>>a person with$a disability is in one of my classes, I worry if I am
>>>doing all I could to provide a rich environment for that student.
>>>Some examples...
>>>1)  Obviously, I can't stop talking when a hearing impaired student
>>>    takes a course, but how best to help that student pick up the
>>>    nuances that are routinely gotten by the hearing students.
>>>2)  I can't stop using the blackboard when I have a visually
>>>    handicapped student, but how do I get things involving diagrams
>>>    and graphs across without being unfair to this student.
>>>3)  Physical handicaps can normally be compensated for by allowing
>>>    extra time, but where does the fairness line get drawn?
>>>4)  Psychological issues can be dealt with via alternative examination
>>>    formats, but again how to assure equitable treatment.
>>>     
>>>Any wisdom out there? 
>>>-- 
>>>
>>>charlie shub  cdash@cs.Colorado.EDU       -or-         (719) 593-3492     
>>>on leave at the University of Iowa  cdash@cs.uiowa.edu (319) 335-0739
>>
>>I guess, that first of all it would be$correct to addres the correct
>>terminology for disabled individuals.
>>  Since the passage of The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) the
>>correct terminology is "Persons with disabilities."
>>  This emphasizes the fact that the individual is a individual first
>>and foremost, and yeah, they just happen to be disabled.
>
>     Persons with disablilities, disabled, handicapped, whatever...you know when
>you start tossing these pc terms around and correct people right and left
>instead of educating them, then you will make people more uncomforable around
>you, and set this whole disabled awareness and rights issue back about 20 years.
>And yes I can say that, because I am a member of the above group.  I$am legally 
>blind, or visually impaired if you like, but I don't throw around these terms
>that are empty and turn people off.  My professors are confused and
>uncomforable enough and I do not make things worse by doing that, I try to 
>explain the best as possible what my impairment is and go from there.   
>
>>  Fairness--to whom?  Fairness is relative, and therefore is difficult
>>to address in a simple response.  If you're concerned about fairness
>>to the students with disabilities in your class, then you are already
>>disabling that student with your attitude of difference.  These are
>>people who on a daily basis function in a "nondisabled" world.  They
>>function in a sighted world if$blind.  They function in a hearing
>>world if deaf.  And, they deal with architectural barriers and
>>succeed.  Therefore, giving them what you offer every other student in
>>your class is "fair."
>>  If your question of fairness addresses the nondisabled students in
>>your class, then where do you feel you might be unfair to them?
>
>
>Yes disabled students should not be singled out in a class for general purposes
>but there are times when special things have$to be done to accomodate a 
>student.  I am a computer science senior and I had a hell of a time in
>Calculus, Physics and my engineering classes.  Yes I FUNCTION in a sighted world
>with dittos being darkened or printed in a larger font.  I was in an electrical
>engineering class with some other disabled students and we had the biggest
>jerk for a professor.  Was it fair when a student who had a mangled hand and took a little extra time to write, could not get extended test time? Or when he
>refused to darken or enlarge handouts or the test for me and almost kick my
>notetaker out of class (because she was not an enrolled student)? NO!! $I have
>had professors say: why should I give you an extra couple minutes on a quiz,
>that wouldn't be FAIR to the others.  Fair should mean that the students have
>the oppurtunity to be graded with the class on the same level by assistance (whatever that may be).  If I get my test enlarged and darkened then I get an
>equal chance like the rest of the class. 
>
>I'm not quite sure if this makes sense at this moment --it's late. :)
>
>>  A blind student knows how to get tle notes off of the blackboard.
>Not always.  See below.
>
>>The deaf student knows how to obtain new terminology. $The largest
>ous regulr expressZKotWebarrier in today's society is the "social handicap."  The attitudes
>>that concentrate on the differences rather than the sameness.
>
>You have a point but the differences have to be addressed sometimes.  If you
>ignore the differences all the time, you may do more harm than good to a person.
>
>Well I'm stepping down from my soapbox and will answer the professors question.
>
>**************************************************
>To address the original educator: in my experience as a student the advice I
>offer for visually impaired students is:
>
>
>1) if you are giving a test/quiz and you make a correction to it in class and
>write it on the board, please say what the correction is orally and make sure
>the student is aware of$it.  I have had several teachers make a correction
>and not say a word.
>
>2) when you are writing stuff on the board (I am assuming you are in a technical
>field), try not to say, "put this here and multiply that to this" because it
>means nothing to the student who is trying to follow you mentally.
>
>3) lastly, i understand some diagrams and derivations are long but please try
>not to erase part of it instead of rewriting it, because when that happens
>the student and notetaker have a very hard time following what you did and
>comprehending it later.
>
>4) oh yeah and overhead transparencies are AWFUL (especially if you work on them
>in class and not merely preprepared).  If you do have to use them, try to have
>a copy for the student and notetaker to look at (since you may need to make
>changes to it, but the whole thing is too long for the notetaker to recopy by
>hand).
>
>I hope this helps you, and I apppreciate you coming forth and asking like this.
>
>
>---Stephanie

  Well, concerning your comments on terminology.  If you don't educate
individuals about changes in language, then they are not able to
progress with the times.  If we did not change our terminology about
calling afro-americans what they were called in plantation days, we
would be doing them and ourselves a big disservice.

  If blindness makes you qualified to talk aobut the topic of disabled
students in classes, then I'm qualified also, since I am blind.  And
yeah, I went to college too, and still pop in for an occasional course
that looks intriguing.

  As far as the extra time on tests, the handling of transparencies,
and the blackboard information, it is not this profressor's
responsibility to make sure you get the info, it is yours.  If you
start expecting him to learn all the "differences" that each person
with a disability needs, you are not being fair to him.    Give this
professor who cares enough freedom to feel comfortable in teaching his
classes without having to worry that "this disabled student" won't
take initiative for what they need.  

I too very much appreciate this professor's caring, and want him to
know that he is free to teach and it is his student's responsibility
to approach him with their needs.  You cant' give blanket answers,
because while you want things "blown up", I would prefer my things in
Braille, and neither should be his concern unless we approach him with
a request.  He would work with any student to assist them to succeed,
so let him teach, and you be forthright enough to make your requests
to him, don't lay an expectation on him to approach you.  This kind of
attitude is what makes situations uncomfortable.