From: b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (General Libertrix)
Subject: Re: Libertarian heaven
Summary: Shape up or you'll be helping out in Africa next. 
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: Who sez liberty has to be fem?? 
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 04:15:00 GMT

Can't speak for the libertarians, who are a typically idealistic and
rabidly rigid form of anarchist. But as just a plain old anarchist, 
I think you're a little off, marc. 

In article <1993Jan7.182028.29969@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, 
colten@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (marc.colten) writes...

>As for the "too many governments" idea of Somalia, I think you're
>twisting the facts around.  The "warlords" of Somalia are nothing
>like the governments that Libertarians are constantly arguing
>against. They were not chosen by some of the people with authority
>over all of them. They are truly the Libertarian ideal.  They 
>have used their money to buy weapons to be totally independent
>of any law or society. 

Which is like saying that the elitists in the US congress are true
democrats. Try looking at all of the society.

>Yes, they are violating the rule you
>think Libertarians should obey, to not take advantage of other
>people, but that is your mistake not theirs.  By what logic
>do you think that in the absence of a central government, people
>will naturally respect each other?

The US central government seems pretty disrespectful of people
to me. Ditto for the CommuKapitalist Chinese.

>In any society you will have good people and bad people.  

True even for one without goverments. 

>A government with police powers may not be perfect but they make
>an attempt to control the bad people.  

Can you make this statement in terms of a dictatorship?

>In a Libertarian society
>the good people will use their money to build up their businesses
>and compete with other good people.  The bad people will buy guns
>and take things from the good people.  

Really, let's try it and find out. Not that I'd want Libertarian
societies running amok either.

>The good people will
>eventually have to buy guns to protect themselves, draining money
>from their enterprises. The bad people will have no such burden.

Chemistry is easier and cheaper than guns.

>I think that in an evolutionary sense - the bad people would always
>win such a fight, or convert the good people to their idea. 

No faith in GOD, eh. Or even in aliens. Or even in evolution.

>The solutions to a problem like Somalia are varied.  You could
>institute a government with police powers and make it against
>the law to terrorize other people. Or you could tell every
>Somali that they have the same right to have weapons - which
>right now they can't afford.  You could hand out weapons and
>ammo to poor, starving, frightened individuals and hope this
>helps them against well organized groups of highly motivated
>thugs, but I don't think they would have much of a chance.

12 & 14 year old (agewise) "organized groups of highly motivated thugs."

>Each person would minimize their own risk and let their neighbor
>take the chances.  Ironically, the good leaders would be all
>on the other side.  If a strong leader came up to unite the
>people, he'd have to be a saint not to set up his own kingdom
>once hundreds of armed people were obeying his every command.

You've got a knack for expressing strong opinions marc. You 
might want to back 'em up a little, please.

>Somalia may not be what the Libertarians think would happen,
>but it is a very clear example of what keeps happening.
> 
>marc colten

And if everyone would leave the country alone, the libertarian
solution of auto-genocide might solve the problem forever. Maybe.
Then again GOD might step in. Guess we'll never know. As long as
the american elites want to play GOD that is.

Forced Humanitarianism -- you *will* like it, or else. And by the
way, you need to get more exercise. Report to the practice field
at 4:00 am. And bring a credit card. Hate to have to pay for your
hypertension drugs out of the national medical funds. And sick days
would mean you'd make less taxable income. Besides there are so many 
other places on earth that truly need the drugs still, who can't help 
themselves. You'll feel better too. Now about your diet... 

   |
-- J --
   |
   |  Stephen    "mother goverment, oy"

Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:66746 ca.politics:10546 ba.politics:8140