HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: What to do about salt?
Date: 15 Dec 92 22:23:13 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA

In article <1992Dec12.153119.27081@tin.monsanto.com> wchutt@alex.monsanto.com (Bill C Hutton) writes:
>
>
>Unless you have a heated garage the most effective way to minimize
>corrosion is to very carefully clean the undercarridge of your vehicle
>when the last freezing weather has passed. I hate to think of someone
>freezing themselves cleaning salt from their car when the corrosive
>reaction is very inefficient due to cold temperatures.
>
   Along the same line, if you know your car has been exposed to
   salt, and you DO have a heated garage, you may want to consider
   leaving the car outside in the cold until you have a chance to
   clean it.  

   Is it true that on a quiet night you can HEAR a Porsche 911
   corroding?
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: pka@engin.umich.edu (Payman Khalili)
Subject: Re: brakes -- 79 Honda Accord
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 04:21:01 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <85357@ut-emx.uucp> jbelury@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Josh Belury) writes:
>The brake light (the idiot light on the insrument panel) in my Honda stays on 
>all the time.
>
>The parking brake is kinda feeble, but it was like that before the light
>came on.  The brakes seem to work fine.  No noises, and reasonable stopping 
>distance.
>

First, check the obvious: does your hand brake come down all the way to 
turn off the brake switch?  If yes, then read on...

Lots of cars have the brake light come on when the brake fluid level
is low.  Make sure your brake fluid is between the minimum and maximum
levels.  

You may want to add more brake fluid to the reservoir or better yet,
flush out the old brake fluid and replace it with new.  I think a brake
shop will do this for about $20.

Also, this may indicate that you have a leak in your brake system.  Keep
an eye on the brake fluid level for some time.  If it drops a lot, you have
a leak in the brake system.  This could be costly (not to mention dangerous)
depending on where the leak is.

Good luck,

-Payman

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: RZAA80@email.sps.mot.com (Jim Chott)
Subject: Re: Ford 4x4 Opinions Sought
Followup-To: rec.autos
Organization: Motorola SPS
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:01:26 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.145601.11276@nosc.mil>, koziarz@halibut.nosc.mil
(Walter A. Koziarz) wrote:
> 
> In article <8kn20m-@rpi.edu> jkurien@rdrc.rpi.edu (James Kurien) writes:
> 
> > Hi all.
> >	I am looking for a truck, and was wondering 
> >	if anyone out there has any opinions on Ford four wheel 
> >	drive vehicles, preferably in the 1985-1990 range,
> >	especially the Bronco and Bronco II.  I'd also be 
> >	interested in what type of mileage people get, as I'm
> >	totally clueless as how four wheel drive affects this.
> 
> Well, I have an opinion, a negative one, on Ford 4x4s less than the F-350.
> These lesser-vehicles use what Ford calls 'Twin-Traction-Beam' (TTB) frontends.
> These are extremely difficult to perform routine service on.  Drain and refill
> of the lubricant requires removal of the axle shafts since the swing-arm that
> forms on of the suspension-members also functions as the differential cover.
> The entire differential case must be removed from the suspension-member to
> drain it, and in order to remove it, the axles and driveshaft must first be
> removed.  Also, the Bronco-II has a wimpy aluminum front differential housing
> and the stock V-6 engine is more than capable of providing sufficient torque to
> take teeth off the ring and pinion and shatter the case.  If you intend to do
> any *S*E*R*I*O*U*S* off-roading, only Dodge offers a suitable running-gear
> combination in all its 4x4s (except the Dakota, but that's only an
> "almost-truck").  For serious off-roading, stay away, far away from independent
> front suspensions as these decrease ground clearance as they travel.  Only a
> solid axle is suitable for extreme duty, the IFS-setups are for cruising
> boulevards.
> 
> Walt K.

I owned a 89 F250 with the Diesel engine and the Dana 50 front axle.  (Dana
44 with bigger bearings).  Walt is right, they are not very strong if you
intend to do serious four wheeling.  I broke two axles, one differential
and various other parts.  Most breakages occurred in low gear low range
with the engine at 1500 rpm, so I don't think I was abusing it.  The axles
in my 85 **Toyota** are bigger than what Ford put in the F250.  The rest of

the truck didn't give me any trouble, so if I hadn't taken it four wheeling
I would have been very happy.  Depends on what you want to use it for. 
BTW,
I believe the Bronco uses the same internals in the front end as my F250.

Jim Chott                            85 Toyota 4WD pickup
rzaa80@email.sps.mot.com             72 LeMans Sport Convertible
Tempe, Arizona
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Subject: Re: THE CLUB???? (Re: 48Hours (12/9))
Originator: brad@buck
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:29:34 GMT


In article <gf_xCMu00aw54daX8i@andrew.cmu.edu>, Jason Paul Togyer <jt3y+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

|> All I have is a plain-Jane sedan, an '89 VW Jetta, so it's not really
|> desirable anyway; the Club just makes it less so.  If you had a ZR1 or
|> something, a car thief would do everything short of renting a helicopter
|> and flying it out.
|> 
If I recall correctly, the VW Jetta has been one of the most often
stolen cars in the past few years. This may still be true. Maybe
your club is more effcetive than you realize...
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: RZAA80@email.sps.mot.com (Jim Chott)
Subject: Re: 4x4 Newsgroup
Followup-To: rec.autos
Organization: Motorola SPS
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:44:55 GMT

In article <14DEC92.14025650@wizard.colorado.edu>,
murray_t@wizard.colorado.edu wrote:
> 
> What I want to know is how to get on the mailing list!

Send an email to:

offroad-request@ai.gtri.gatech.edu

requesting to be connected.

Jim Chott                            85 Toyota 4WD pickup
rzaa80@email.sps.mot.com             72 Lemans Sport Convertible
Tempe, Arizona
From: ah190@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stuart Pearl)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Flames for GM Body Holes
Date: 14 Dec 1992 02:21:20 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


That sounds reasonable that the 2 body holes in the front foot wells
of the Celebrity are for some sort of drainage during the assembly
process.

And as far as the rust proofing process causing the rust, it's a definite
possiblity.  I suspect that some of the rust around these 2 holes and
directly under the carpet padding was caused by the high pressure steam
cleaning that could have been "forced" through into the passenger com-
partment.  The moldy (padding) odor rust appeared after Ziebart had
steam cleaned and "touched up" the car.

And definately Tuff Kote did a shoddy job when they drilled the applica-
tion holes - most of the visible rust on the painted surfaces occurred
as a direct result of that action!

I sure wish I could hunt down that supposed article or report by 
J. D. Powers and Associates discussing the supposed value (or lack
thereof) of rustproofing.  As I suggested before, I just may skip the
hole process on my new car even I live in the rust belt.

-stu
-- 
                   ---===<<< Stuart Pearl >>>===---
                           Cleveland, Ohio
                      ah190@cleveland.freenet.edu
                         --------------------
Organization: Naval Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 08:38:01 -0500 
From: "Joseph D. Mazza" <mazz+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: 1990 Audi 100 SUCKS !! (a bit long)

>>|> Sounds like deja vu!  Back in 1970 I bought an Audi 100LS in its first
>>|> model year.  BIG mistake.  EVERYTHING, and I mean literally EVERYTHING
>>|> went wrong with it.  
> 
>        Wow, a current opinion based on 1970's info.  Boy I hope we pull out
>of Vietnam soon!!!
 
We'll have our boys home by Christmas.  Right after Tet.

But seriously, I didn't start this thread.  It was started by a poster
who was talking about a _1992_ car, NOT a 1970.  I was just comiserating
with a fellow customer who had a bad experience with Audi, and it seemed
ironic to me that when Audi finally had the courage to use the name
"100" again, they produced (according to the original poster, at least)
another lemon.

By the way, my 1990's decisions are not based on a 1970's experience. 
The 1970's experience got me to switch to BMW.  My 1990's decisions are
based on many happy years with that company!
From: exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (Patrick Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Vector Sex Wax 2000 or whatnot (was Re: >>>>Best undercover car)
Date: 11 Dec 92 23:00:49 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

In article <11DEC199209190952@csa3.lbl.gov> jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera) writes:

>In article <92345.082202HAHN@UCF1VM.BITNET>, <HAHN@UCF1VM.BITNET> writes...
>> Pretty hard to compare any car to the vector....Claimed 1000 HP.  

>If they are indeed claiming that, I'd like to see it dynoed, preferably
>before and after a surface-street trip from one end of LA to the other
>with a smog check along the way.  I think (look, Ma, no references) that
>1000 hp is slightly more than a NASCAR Grand National stocker develops
>and only a hair less than you get in Indy cars and F1.  

Seems a little high to me, too.  1,000 HP?  Shit you'd need tires 18" wide.

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    !!! H A P P Y   H O L I D A Y S !!!

  - Patrick Taylor, Ericsson Network Systems
    exuptr@exu.ericsson.se                    "Don't let the .se fool you"
    exuptr@ZGNews.Lonestar.Org  <SLOW!>
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rvn@icd.teradyne.com (Rafael Vidaillet)
Subject: Re: Four wheel drive Autos
Reply-To: rvn@icd.teradyne.com
Organization: Teradyne, Inc. Boston MA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:30:54 GMT

>From feinberg@icd.teradyne.com (Mike)
>From my own experience: I did 11K miles last august in Subary Legacy and was 
>very comfortable all the from Boston-DC-Atlanta-NewOrleans-Dallas-SantaFe-LA-
>Rt1-Seatle-YellowStone-Boston. Mitsu Eclipse, on the other hand, is a bit more 
>sporty (if you get a turbo 4wd model) but I can hardly make a trip from Boston
>to Vermont (120 miles) without backcramps. I am 6'2'' and swim for the last 8 
>year - the car just does not have enough leg and shoulder room for me. 

	Hey that is my car you are complaining about!
	
	Well I'm 5'11" and find the car very confortable (more than my '90
Honda Prelude), and I kind of like the laid-back seating position.  
This car is great on the snow (I'm sure the other 4wd's are too).  We
just had over a foot of snow outside of Boston and we (mike and I) had
a BLAST in the snow.  This thing is AMAZING!  And to think it is also 
a sports car (I auto-cross and Time-trial during the summer... Hopefully
I will do some ice-races too..) We'll see if any other 4wd car can
keep up with this little beast..( Unless you spend more than 2x the $$$ 
for a 3000GT VR4...)

_RV

---
 ______________________________________________________________________
/                                                                      \
|                 He who dies with the most toys wins!                 |
|______________________________________________________________________|
| Rafael Vidaillet--MS: H71|   Internet:  rvn@dewey.icd.teradyne.com   |
| Teradyne Inc.            |                              _            |
| 321 Harrison Ave.        |   Voice:   (617) 422-2422   |_) \  /      |
| Boston, Ma. 02118        |   Fax:     (617) 422-2837   | \  \/       |
\______________________________________________________________________/



Xref: sparky rec.autos:29844 rec.autos.tech:16698
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
Subject: Re: Do SPOILERS Really Work???
Date: 15 Dec 1992 17:19:43 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, drew@tcom.stc.co.uk (Scooby Doo) says:

>In article <Bz27Dn.IHL@mail.boi.hp.com> wesf@boi.hp.com (Wes Fujii) writes:
>>twin turbo 300zx (tt300zx@milton.u.washington.edu) wrote:
>>: 
>
>	Stuff about spoilers (ha!) deleted.
>
>	This chat about spoilers leads on to another question, how
>important *are* aerodynamics to a car. 
>
>For example... My car is a 1982 Golf GTi and has a flat front. Now I
>think the car looks nice, but it is not an aerodynamic design. It has
>a drag co-efficient of .40 . So what difference would I expect if the

i thought they were around .35, but not to bicker about that, as i have
no proof!

>same engine (it's a 120BHp unit cos I'm in Britain :-) ) was put in

lucky dog!

>a car of exact same weight, but with a more aerodynamic shape? I suspect
>not much until you hit more than 80+ mph (ie aerodynamics are not
>important for most of the time).
>
>Whats the net consensus?
>
>Drew
>
>P.s
>
>	My dad's comment on spoilers whilst looking at Porsche 911 with
>the whale tail...
>
>	Dad : 'Whats that on the back of the car?'
>	Me  : 'Oh thats the spoiler."
>	Dad " 'Does its job well then doesn't it?'

moral of the story:
you dad has no taste in cars!~ (:-) for those of us...)
***yes, that was intended as a joke, with no personal offense nor ill will
intended towards you or any memeber of your family!!(i won't mention what
my MOM wanted to do to her car!:-)****
that said..no.you probably wouldn't see much difference insofar as top
speed until you hit about 110-120..( :-) ....again..)  at any rate, where
you would find the differences are mpg(kpl?) and/or liftoff of either axle
at high speeds.  you would notice the less use of fuel at lower speeds, if
this is how your FX were engineered.  On the other hand, if they were engineered
for the downforces, etc, you would notice them LESS until you hit higher
speeds, and after 150(where wind REALLY becomes a factor)..you would DEFINATELY
feel it!  that is how i have understood spoilers/aeroFX.  not the net concensus,
but myne own..
DREW
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rat@erg.sri.com (Ray Trent)
Subject: Re: Emblems, names and meanings...
Reply-To: rat@erg.sri.com (Ray Trent)
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, CA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 22:01:00 GMT

In the referenced article, JTCHEW@lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera) writes:
>> The Japanese logos are all SO unimaginative:  I think Subaru and Mazda are 
>> only two that have any badge other than the first initial of the company.  
>
>Mitsubishi uses three diamonds on most or all of its products, from cars to
>consumer electronics.  I forget what they are supposed to symbolize, but 

I don't know whether you consider this imaginative or not, but
Mitsubishi means "3 diamonds" in Japanese and Subaru is the Japanese
name for the Pleides, which is what their symbol represents (sort of
like Saturn and their symbol). The new Toyota symbol isn't just the
initial "T", BTW. It's a representation of *all* the letters in
"TOYOTA" and simultaneously a simple arrangement of 3 ellipses. I'm
not exactly sure how one gets too much more "imaginative" than that
without simply making up a nonsense symbol.

Does anyone remember what the Nissan, Isuzu, and Daihatsu symbols (if
any) are? 

Not to mention Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus (not that they are separate
companies any more or any less than Oldsmobile, Dodge and Mercury are,
but...).

Is this silly yet? 
-- 
"When you're down, it's a long way up
 When you're up, it's a long way down
 It's all the same thing
 And it's no new tale to tell"                      ../ray\..
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Porsche 916 for sale
Date: 18 Dec 92 22:40:18 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Originator: brad@buck


In article <1992Dec18.053032.23727@julian.uwo.ca>, morton@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Brent Morton) writes:
|> 
|> Porschephiles: That subject "Porsche 916 for sale" is a bit misleading, isn't
|> it? I just about fell over when I saw that.
|> 
|> I wonder what one of the 916's would go for these days.
|> 
Oh yes, the Porsche 916. That's a factory street legal racer with Porsches' 
flat 16 cylinder engine, rated at 1500 HP. Goes from 0-60 in 1.8 seconds. 
Top speed is 378 MPH. Funny that the seller only wants $7000 for it. One was 
recently sold at auction for $4.5 million. Well, if it's not running, I 
suppose that pulls the value down a bit.

Rusty, the wonder dog (woof!)
Xref: sparky rec.autos:30222 rec.autos.tech:16982
From: choy@skorpio.usask.ca (I am a terminator.)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
Subject: Re: Do SPOILERS Really Work???
Date: 20 Dec 1992 23:26:14 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: skorpio.usask.ca

In article <1992Dec13.225328.14446@nntp.hut.fi>, k33074s@kaira.hut.fi (Micke Bergman) writes:
 
|> Allmost true. On the 911 Carrera (old model) Aerodynamic aids (Whale tail,
|> and air dam) decrease lift significantly.
|> For the interrested I have the numbers here.
|> 100 mph :
|>           		Without spoilers	With spoilers
|> Lift at front axle	 60 lbs			 5 lbs
|> Lift at rear wheels	130 lbs			10 lbs

What do spoilers do to fuel economy? On my flight simulator, I can put on
spoilers to slow my plane down. I expect dragging a spoiler around would
slow a car down.

Henry Choy
choy@cs.usask.ca
Xref: sparky rec.autos:29544 rec.autos.tech:16521
From: hhtra@usho72.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
Subject: Re: Do SPOILERS Really Work???
Date: 11 Dec 92 17:46:24 GMT
Organization: Chevron

In article <1992Dec10.060531.18823@u.washington.edu>, tt300zx@milton.u.washington.edu (twin turbo 300zx) writes:
|> 
|> 	does the so called 'spoiler' actually help to hold the car
|> 	onto the road when traveling in high speed? diffrent spoilers
|> 	for differnt cars, are they just some extra fancy accessories
|> 	the car makers trying to pull on the car enthusiasts or
|> 	do they really have something to do with the acutal performance
|> 	of the car? maybe they're just made to improve the looks of
|> 	your car???
|> 
|> 	i have friends who drive 'acura integra' w/ the wing and some
|> 	without the wing -- the response is that there's not a bit of
|> 	difference when driving like 90mph or even 100mph. 
|> 
|> 	and if u take a look at the 300zx wing design, it's a totally
|> 	different 'thing' the the wing of integra's. does the 300zx
|> 	wing actually work, i really doubt it...
|> 
|> 300zx-300zx-300zx-300zx-300zx-300zx-300zx-300zx-300zx-300zx-300zx-300zx-300zx

  On the Mitsubishi 3000VR4, the front spoiler is motorized and is 
  suppose to extend out/down when it's going above 125 mph or so.

  From what I've heard, spoilers really don't do anything until you
  reach high-speeds - like over 150 mph.

  Unless it's the size of those "wings" on circle-track sprint cars!

  TRAVIS
From: milo@dorm.rutgers.edu (Jim  mielo)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Re: Do SPOILERS Really Work??? no.
Date: 15 Dec 92 18:19:09 GMT
Followup-To: rec.autos
Organization: rutgers university

In article <3930151@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com>, pauls@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Paul
Stafford) wrote:
> 
> lift ( downforce) = area * col * 1/2 rho *v *v
> 	col = coefficient of lift ( unitless)
> 	rho = .00238 ( constant whose units escape me right now)
> 	and v is velocity in feet per second
> 
> 
>  assuming a very good col of .3, area of say 6 " x 3' wide,
           please note, few cars are 3 feet wide



>  noting that 100 mph = 146 fps
> 
>  we get 1.5 sq ft * .3 * .5 * .00238 * 146 * 146 = 11 pounds of downforce.
> 
>  you'd do better putting a few bricks in the trunk.

     The bricks will do nothing to negate that huge vacuum behind the car.
The wing may in some applications ( ie the ones on station wagons). Also,
the wing can make use of the shape of the car to decrease instabilities in
the design of the suspension. The other nice thing about the wing is the
force increases with speed while the brick is constant




James Mielo
Rutgers College of Pharmacy '94
milo@dorm.rutgers.edu

 owner of a now fixed 1990 GTi 8v
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: thomas@datamark.co.nz (Thomas Beagle)
Subject: Re: Emblems, names and meanings...
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 06:59:10 GMT
Organization: Datamark International Ltd.

In article <1992Dec18.134419.4875@infonode.ingr.com> greg@cherokee.b23b.ingr.com (Greg Moritz) writes:
>I saw a printed oval that was the same color and script as the blue 
>oval used for the Ford logo.  Only the word in the oval wasn't Ford.
>
>Oh, ... the word started with 'F' followed by a vowel, a 'small'
>consonant, and a 'tall' consonant - just like the word 'Ford.'  

Speaking of such things, is anyone else sick of all the geeks with
"OAKLEY - Thermonuclear Protection' bumper stickers?

I saw an amusing variation the other day, "UGLEY - Factory Idiot".
Made my day. :-)
-- 
    Thomas Beagle | thomas@datamark.co.nz           Work: 64 4 233 8186
Datamark Intl Ltd | thomas@cavebbs.welly.gen.nz     Home: 64 4 499 3832
 Technical Writer | Yes, I do have long ears, a black nose, and a tail.
Newsgroups: rec.autos