HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: CD Sound under attack again. Was: Re: Preamp and Amp
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 10:41:32 -0800

 JP> My best analog tape recorder achieves 20Hz-20kHz +-0.5 dB.
 JP> Tested in Real Life, and IMHO, Good Enough. 
 JP> (Hell, it even extends quite a bit beyond 20kHz, not that I find it 
 JP> particularly useful being effectively deaf beyond 18kHz.)

 JP> There are quite a few people in this forum who have experience with 
 JP> recording music. I have yet to see any one of them claim that the 
 JP> deciding factor in the quality of a recording today is whether the 
 JP> music is fed to a digital or an analog recorder in the end.

 JP> It would be interesting to hear their opinion of what the limiting
 JP> factors usually are in the production of a finished recording, and
 JP> how these limitations compare to the limitations at the playback end.

Without quoting any of it, seems to me the person you were replying to was
totally out to lunch.  Upping tape speed lessens bass response because the
magnetic flux changes too slowly???  GIVE ME A BREAK.

But on to your own message... I have been in recording for several years
now,and it has been my experience that, in the engineer's view, the recording
is ALWAYS made to be AS GOOD AS POSSIBLE, REGARDLESS of the end medium.  Just
a few short years ago, there would have been no point in recording anything
with better than a 75dB dynamic range, as that is the outer limit of LP
reproduction on a GOOD system.  For that matter, there'd have been no point in
recording a lot of pop stuff any better than with a 2kHz bandwidth in MONO,
since it's likely destined to be stuck on AM radio and in kiddie walkmans.

But strangely enough, as far as the engineer is concerned, EVERYTHING should
be done to the HIGHEST standards of quality possible.  Look at Pink Floyd's
Dark Side Of The Moon, for example.  Impeccable quality, with particular
attention to Quad sound, LONG before digital audio was even conceived of by
most recording artists.

Particularly with the way technology is growing now, "limitations at the
playback end" are disappearing completely.  The CD, with 44.1kHz 16-bit
sampling, approaches theoretical perfection.  The (approximate) 100dB dynamic
range available with them is beyond the scope of MOST people's hearing... and
really, people's ears really are the final step in the playback chain.  Seeing
as the majority of people either have some kind of hearing loss, a deficient
stereo system, or just plain don't care what the range and response of the
music is, what's the point in such outlandish standards?

The point is, something extraordinary may pop up tomorrow, and we gotta be
ready for it (egads, a soapbox has appeared beneath me, out of nowhere!).
From: shetline@bbn.com (Kerry Shetline)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: CD vs. LP again
Date: 27 Jan 93 00:26:41 GMT
Followup-To: rec.audio
Organization: BBN
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <1993Jan26.191547.5316@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>,
tom@afthree.as.arizona.edu (Thomas J. Trebisky) wrote:
   ...
> (Is this LP-advocacy serious -- have I just misinterpreted some kind of
> net-joke?)

I may argue with people about technical reasons that they give for
preferring LP over CD, but not the preference itself. While I tend to favor
CD, particular recordings may well be better on LP for example.

There are plenty of other reasons as well. Rather than try to restate them
all, I would recommend that you sit back and read rec.audio for a while. Go
out an read some magazines. If you apply the critical thinking necessary to
separate the wheat from the chaff you'll get a better picture of the
various points of view. It will temper your own viewpoint.

> Dragging
> a rock thru congealed petroleum, yeah, that's the technology for me!

At least you've got a sense of humor. This I like!

-Kerry
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: phr@telebit.com (Paul Rubin)
Subject: Re: DAT, DCC and MD
Organization: Telebit Corporation; Sunnyvale, CA, USA
	<1993Jan20.213028.23989@e2big.mko.dec.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:25:45 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.213028.23989@e2big.mko.dec.com> winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:

   There is one thing that DCC can do that DAT can't: it is far easier
   to do pre-recorded DCCs than pre-recorded DATs.  One can use the
   same sort of cheap mass-production contact-printing techniques now
   used for cassette tape to produce pre-recorded DCCs.  For DAT, you
   have to essentially set up huge banks of DAT decks to record the
   tapes.  This makes DAT unattractive to the recording industry.  A
   very large segment (I hesitate to say the majority) of the mass-
   market for tape decks is driven by the availability of pre-recorded
   tapes.  This is why DAT didn't get very far when Sony did its
   consumer deck push a year or two ago.

Is it harder to make prerecorded DAT's than prerecorded videotapes?
Movie companies do the latter all the time...
From: igb@fulcrum.co.uk (Ian G Batten)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: DAT, DCC and MD
Date: 22 Jan 93 13:35:52 GMT
Organization: Fulcrum Communications

In article <1993Jan20.213028.23989@e2big.mko.dec.com> winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:
> This is why DAT didn't get very far when Sony did its consumer deck push a
> year or two ago.

DAT also requires highly accurate helical scan heads.  These will always
be more expensive than fixed heads --- witness the quite high floor for
VCR mechanism prices as compared to Cassette mechanisms.

ian
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: dmandl@shearson.com (David Mandl)
Subject: List of mail-order sources?
Reply-To: dmandl@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 22:15:24 GMT

Does anyone out there have a list of mail-order sources for audio gear?
Is this in the FAQ?  Thanks.

   --Dave.

---
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
         Dave Mandl            |    Opinions expressed here
       New York City           | are not those of my employer,
   (dmandl@shearson.com)       |          believe me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: rajan@mallet.ai.mit.edu (Rajan Ramaswamy)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Rating CD quality (AAD, DDD etc)
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:00:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: life.1k4ca9INNi5p
Distribution: usa
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: mallet.ai.mit.edu

Had a discussion with someone who mentioned that CDs are 
rated on sound quality. Apparently all CDs have a three
letter code composed of the letters A and D. For example,
AAD, DDD etc.  What does this mean, if it means anything?
Does it tell me something about how the sound was originally
recorded before it was made digital??

Please e-mail enlightenment, as I don't read this group.

Thanks in advance,

Rajan
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: torgd@tolstoy.lerc.nasa.gov (Russell DeAnna)
Subject: For Sale: NAD 2200 power amp
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:21:59 GMT

NAD 2200 Power Amp
100 watts per channel at 8 ohms
6 db dynamic headroom
purchashed in 1985 for $450.00
capable of operating in bridge mode

   The amp is slightly modified. I added
gold plated RCA jacks and 5-way speaker binding
posts.  I also added a heavy gauge power cord.
The amp is in excellent condition although
one speaker relay needs cleaning: the right
channel doesn't always play upon startup, sometimes
the volume has to be turned up before the relay switches
the channel on.  Once the channel starts its fine, so I'm
assuming it's a dirty relay.  Other than that, this is a
fine amp with outstanding and clean power.

Price: $200.00, or best offer
Call, or send e-mail.
--
  Russell G. De Anna            
  E-mail:  torgd@tolstoy.lerc.nasa.gov 
  phone:  (216) 433-3385
From: ahchan@rd.hydro.on.ca (Arthur Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Pro-logic amp/speaker recommendations wanted
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:54:41 GMT
Organization: "Ontario Hydro - Research Division"

tjwu@athena.mit.edu (Thomas J Wu) writes:
: I am attempting to build a decent A/V system from scratch.  I already
: have a CD player and a VHS Hi-fi VCR, but my amp is currently a boom box.
: I'm planning on spending under $800 for the receiver and $500 for the
: speakers.
: 
: For the receiver, I'm interested in Dolby Pro-logic; extra DSP modes are
: also nice.  The number of A/V inputs is important, since I'm considering
: a second VCR, a tape deck and/or DCC/MD unit, or LD player, in addition
: to what I have now.  I have narrowed down my selection to the Yamaha RX-V850
: and the Onkyo TX-SV70PRO.  They seem to offer just about the same set of
: features and carry about the same price.  Does anybody have any experience
: or advice concerning either of these units?  Are there any other units
: I should consider?
: 
: As for the speakers, I'm interested in the Paradigm 3se and 5se, as well
: as their center-channel speakers.  Would these be a good match for my
: receiver?  Thanks for the help!
: --

I can share some of my experience with you in speakers selection. I used a pair
of Paradigm 3SEs for main, a Rock Solid (engineered) by B&W for center and a
pair of Realistic Minimus 7s for rear.  The sound for watching TV of video is
ok, but it doesn't sound right when listening to cd or watching LDs.  I suspect
the Rock Solid has a difference tonal balance from the 3ses.  Somehow, it makes
the paradigms sound darker by comparison.  Of course, this is just my own
opinion.  So, I think you will do well to keep the speakers to one brand.

BTW, my AV receiver is a Pioneer with prologic. So far, it works fine.

Arthur

-- 
Arthur Chan
Operations Research
KR297 (6173)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Subject: Re: Bose Speakers
Reply-To: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:06:43 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.060955.29288@fcom.cc.utah.edu> dave@csulx.weber.edu writes:
>So how does all of this reflect (;-)) on the Mirage speakers?
>How do the Bose (mis)use reflected sound that gets them bashed and
>how do the mirages use it that gets them praised?

The Mirage speakers radiate equal energy front and back, the goal of the
rear radiation is to provide the *one* critical reflection.  That's why
the Mirage's are so @$#(*@_) difficult to set up, and why you need a very
well-laid-out room for them to work.  It's also why, since I'm moving and
my new digs aren't set up in such a way that I can have them 3 feet from
the wall, my current pair of M-1's is for sale.  Anyone interested? :-)



--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
From: eomiya@borland.com (Elliot Omiya)
Subject: Cartridge recommendations
Summary: Looking for turntable cartridge recommendation
Originator: eomiya@genghis.borland.com
Organization: Borland International, Inc.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:41:35 GMT


First, ** do not ** start another CD vs. LP war because of this posting.
I have hundreds (maybe over a thousand? who counts?) of records and a
couple of hundred CD's so both mediums occupy a place in my home.

My trust Thorens turntable (can't remember model number, mid-range for
their line many years ago) has a Dynavector Ruby cartridge which is well
worn and ready to be replaced.

Simply put, what kind of cartridges are still available (I've read the
FAQ) that can be recommended?  It can be MM or MC and I don't want to
spend more than, say, $200-$300.

Thanks in advance for the info.

-=<EHO>=-
From: Matt.Ion@p106.f7040.n153.z1.ship.wimsey.bc.ca (Matt Ion)
Sender: UUCP@ship.wimsey.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Itty Bitty Teensy Weensy Bose Speakers
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 09:58:24 -0800

 FIR> From: Frank@mindlink.bc.ca (Frank I. Reiter)
 FIR> Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

 FIR> I've seen (and heard) some Bose speakers that consist of just about the
 FIR> smallest main speakers I've ever seen along with a 
 FIR> subwoofer.  The compact
 FIR> size of these things is very attractive to me 
 FIR> considering my fairly small
 FIR> living room, but I wonder if one sacrifices sound 
 FIR> quality for convenience
 FIR> with these speakers.

 FIR> How does their sound compare with that of other 
 FIR> speakers in the same price range?

The main thing to worry about is how they sound to YOU.  I've heard the system
you're referring to (or one of that basic design) and I really liked it.  If
you're short on space, it may be a good way to go.  I kinda like the idea of
hiding the bass module away, too :)
From: scott@psy.uwa.oz.au (Scott Fisher)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Comments on analog music
Date: 26 Jan 1993 08:32:25 GMT
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: wapsy.psy.uwa.oz.au

lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:

>In article <shetline-240193114811@128.89.19.90> shetline@bbn.com (Kerry Shetline) writes:
>>Be careful, Kirk. I don't think it's politically correct on rec.audio to
>>say anything nice about Telarc. And to mention Telarc in the same breath
>>with Schefield? You're in trouble now! :-)
>>
>  
>  I dunno.  I've blown more Apogee's and wimpy woofers with Telarc
>  than with any other brand--except for Stanford's "Digital Domain"

Yeah, what is the story with "Digital Domain"?  The dynamic range of
this recording is much much much greater than any other CD I have heard.
Great recording too...and that's 1985-7? recording???

Scott.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Scott Fisher [scott@psy.uwa.oz.au]  PH: Aus [61] Perth (09) Local (380 3272).                
                                                             _--_|\       N
Department of Psychology                                    /      \    W + E
University of Western Australia.      Perth [32S, 116E]-->  *_.--._/      S
Nedlands, 6009.  PERTH, W.A.                                      v       

Joy is a Jaguar XJ6 with a flat battery, a blown oil seal and an unsympathetic 
wife, 9km outside of a small remote town, 3:15am on a cold wet winters morning.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Subject: What it isn't
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 05:57:18 GMT

With the recent discussion about oversampling and the like, I'd like to
compile a list of "what it isn't."

It always amazes me when you wander into discount stores, etc. and hear
jewels like:

"Oversampling is a method to get more data off the disc. 16 times as much!"
	or
"Oversampling is a method to make sure that the data is correct.  You see,
you read it all 16 times and average it all together"
	or
"A three-beam player reads three times as much information as a 
 one-beam player"

You get the idea....  So, if you've encountered such techno-babble before,
about any facet of audio terminology, I'd be interested in seeing it.
Either post it or mail it my way, and I'll compile a list which I'll
post back to the group for laughs.


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
From: dwf@kepler.unh.edu (Dennis W Fitanides)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Stephen D. Grant at uky (sorry mail keeps bouncing)
Date: 25 Jan 1993 22:53:02 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu




Hey Steve mail to miles@ms.uky.edu keeps bouncing.  Send me your
telephone number and I'll call you..

Thanks
Tom Nezwek

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: pablo@mits.mdata.fi (Henrik Ahlgren)
Subject: NAD 2400pe
Organization: Microdata Oy
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 18:26:57 GMT

Any opinions and/or technical info on NAD 2400pe?  Is it a good amp or
a piece of crap?  What about NAD 1000 preamp?

Thanks a lot for any information, 

--
henrik "pablo" ahlgren  ==  pablo@mits.mdata.fi  ==  sormeile lis{tietoja 
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Subject: Re: cassette player/recorder
Reply-To: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 20:19:59 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.010002.7394@colorado.edu>, jessup@dot.cs.colorado.edu (Elizabeth Jessup) writes:
|> 
|> I'm trying to find a small sized cassette player/recorder, portable
|> or not, so that I can make and play tapes of CD's and records.  I
|> don't have room for a full sized component, but I haven't been able
|> to find anything small that will take the right inputs from my amp.
|> I'd appreciate recommendations of players and sources.
|> 
|> Also, is there such a thing as a cassette player that you can program
|> to record radio shows at certain times like a VCR?

The Sony DC3 or DC6 Pro Walkmans may be the answer. Both are superb
cassette recorders/players in a small package.

The DC3 is the size of a regular walkman. It will record and play with
Dolby B NR and will record on regular or chrome bias tapes. It has
a multi segment LED input level. It has a switch to accept either a
mic or line input and a line out as well as headphone out - thus you
can hook it up to your stereo like a regular deck using line in and out.
It will run off of 2 AA batteries or AC power. Comes with headphones
and minature microphone. Around $200 from discount electronic places.

The DC6 is a little bigger - more the size of VHS tape. In addition to
the features of the DC3, it has Dolby C, will record on metal tape,
has bigger controls, and doesn't come with a microphone. Has line
in and out like the DC3. Around $300.
From: pcw@flutter.tv.tek.com (Patrick C. Wilkins)
Subject: Re: Are Sony MDR-V6's worthwhile?
Organization: Tektronix TV Products
Date: 27 Jan 93 14:50:58

sony makes an improved version of the mdr-v6 in their pro series. the model 
is 7506 i believe and it's about the same price as the mdr-v6.
--

-------------------------------------------------------------------
    Pat Wilkins II
    A.K.A. Clif
    Email pcw@flutter.tv.tek.com
    Work 503-627-6525

-------------------------------------------------------------------
    Is Deja-vu real or is life just redundant???????
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: tjwu@athena.mit.edu (Thomas J Wu)
Subject: Re: Pro-logic amp/speaker recommendations wanted
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 06:25:23 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.175637.4562@bmerh85.bnr.ca> shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally) writes:
>
>  Get the Yamaha 850. It is discontinued so prices should be good :-)
>  Speakers: Get the Paradigm Phantoms for the front and Atoms for the rear.
>

Thanx for the advice.  I've managed to find a pretty good deal on the
RX-V850 ($599 retail).  I was also looking around at the Phantoms at
one the local dealers when I saw their so-called "Mini-MkII" speakers.
They are smaller than the Phantoms and larger than the Titans but slightly
more expensive.  Has anyone else seen or listened to these speakers and
can comment on them?  Since I will be placing them on bookshelves in
a small room, they seem to be more convenient for my needs, though I
plan to keep them if/when I move into more spacious quarters.
I've heard quite a bit about the Phantoms on the net, but not much
about other speakers in the line.
--
Thomas Wu                                                  "Raise shields."
Internet:  tjwu@athena.mit.edu                             "What shields?"
From: mbk@lyapunov.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Digital critics - sampling argument is nonsense
Date: 22 Jan 1993 19:45:54 GMT
Organization: Institute For Nonlinear Science, UCSD
NNTP-Posting-Host: lyapunov.ucsd.edu
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

jj@alice.att.com (jj, curmudgeon and all-around grouch) writes:
: In article <1190791@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com> kurts@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Kurt Strain) writes:
: >In rec.audio, shetline@bbn.com (Kerry Shetline) writes:
: >And in the very next sentence trounces analog with a bogus reason.
: >> Chances are that most analog appeal comes from
: >> euphonius distortions that could be simulated in digital if anyone wanted
: >> to try.
: Ahhh, yes.  The more things change, the more they stay the same.
: 
: Shetline's reason is not bogus. He refers to an entire body of 
: knowledge that you have neither acknowledged nor refuted.
: 
: As seems usual, you are content to misstate your opinion as fact
: and engage in ad-hominem attacks on those who have studied the
: issues.
: 
: Kurt, go away.  How do you propose he "trounces" analog?  He doesn't.
: He says the distortions ARE euphonic, which is a reccomendation,
: I would think, rather than a trouncing.

Remember.  The instant you record something with a microphone, you've
committed unspeakable distortion.  Who knows what's really going on between
your ears?  What's the reason to believe that sampling pressure fields at
two or more points, and playing back through loudspeakers should do anything
sensible?  That was the conventional model because the technology didn't
allow anything else. 

With DSP we can do arbitrary amounts of potentially
interesting processing with essentially O(1) amounts of undesirable
distortion.  The surround-sound lovers (who didn't arise out of
the purist monks of audiophilia) don't have any problem with this.  And
it makes a positive difference.  With digital, the signal is, to
zeroeth order, altered only when purposely desired, and in a controlled
fashion.

I think it's amazing that present stereo is as good as it is.

Hit me! Beat me with euphonic distortion!

: -- 
: Copyright alice!jj 1993, all rights reserved, except transmission by USENET and like facilities granted. Said permission is granted only for complete copies that include this notice. Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
: ---------
: Member HASA - Athiest Scum Division
: "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice" - AuH2O for President

--
-Matt Kennel  		mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu
-Institute for Nonlinear Science, University of California, San Diego
-*** AD: Archive for nonlinear dynamics papers & programs: FTP to
-***     lyapunov.ucsd.edu, username "anonymous".
From: brieck@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: What do you think about....
Date: 24 Jan 93 17:42:50 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

	While looking for a system, I saw a Magnavox CDC 792 CD player. It
looks to be exactly what I am looking for.......simple controls, sturdy
construction and a reasonable price. Any comments from you wizards out there on
this unit? I didn't get to hear it (it wasn't hooked up and the store was gonna
close) so I may find out it isn't the CD player for me after I do hear it, but I
would like comments on it.

       Also, I have heard quite a few people talking about the Advent speakers,
and I saw a pair of Laureates today. I thought they sounded OK, but the paper
speakers worry me.....won't the paper type wear out before the
polypropelene (sp?) type will? I was also told that one sign of bad speaker
design is when the woofer moves quite a bit a low/medium volume. I notice that
these really did!....Should a woofer be "tight" in a good speaker?

Thanks in advance for all help.

Brian Rieck	
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: dmoon@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Doksu Moon)
Subject: Re: Are Sony MDR-V6's worthwhile?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:27:38 GMT

>sony makes an improved version of the mdr-v6 in their pro series. the model
>is 7506 i believe and it's about the same price as the mdr-v6.


Through what mail order source would one purchase these?


Doksu Moon
e-mail:  dmoon@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu