HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: martinl@torolab6.VNET.IBM.COM
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 13:36:23 EDT
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Low Passes at Airports
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not those of IBM
News-Software: Usenet 3.0

Matt Ginsberg writes: "what is necessary for takeoff and landing?".

Maybe we should be asking "how far can ATC go in authorizing actions?".

At the airport (controlled regional sized place) I fly out of, we have 2 boxes
(depending on wind direction), for those who hold a waiver. Occasionally,
ATC will authorize a vertical 360 to those pilots for traffic separation
in the pattern.
Are they allowed to do this?

About a month ago I was flying past Hamilton-Mt.Hope (a secondary international
airport to YYZ), and called in, as I was skirting the edge of their zone.
The controller came back 'we have a VIP in the tower who has never seen a
Pitts, could you fly a low pass past the tower for us. You are cleared direct
in and back out, so we won't hold you up at all'. Well, let's make somebody
happy. I roared past the tower at 215, and then showed then just how well
a 2B climbs. They were impressed. (Then again, this airport has a large
WW2 collection, and the controllers may be used to low pass high jinx.)

From: dunn@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Steve Dunn)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 18:01:43 GMT
Subject: Flys
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

From a co-worker who attributes it to Flight School (USN):


There were these 3 flys in a barn.  They found a beautiful, new horse pie and
proeceded to gorge themselves until they couldn't eat anymore.   Try as
they could, they couldn't get airborne with all the extra weight.

One of them saw a broom standing in the corner and suggested they climb the
broomstick and launch from there.  The 1st climbed about 1/4 of the way,
launched, stalled and crashed.   The 2nd said "Stupid jerk!  He should have
gone further"; and he climbed 1/2 way, launched, stalled and crashed.  The
3rd said "Stupid jerk! He should have gone further"; and he climbed all
the way, launched, stalled and crashed.

The moral:  don't fly off the handle when you're full of shit.

Happy landings.

sd
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre)
Subject: Re: Oops, the throttle came off!
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 16:13:17 GMT

When I get to the part of the Cessna "Before Takeoff" checklist that reads
"Cabin doors and windows--closed and locked", I thump the door hard with 
my hand or elbow.  I also move very firmly (like, enough to make it rattle)
back and forth in the seat to make sure that it will stay put.  I have
also had success with applying downward pressure on the seat's latching
bar while "jiggling" the seat.  This makes sure that the latch is in fact
firmly in place.

I was also warned about both the Cessna seat latch and the Cessna doors
during my primary training.

		William LeFebvre
		Computing Facilities Manager and Analyst
		Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
		Northwestern University
		<phil@eecs.nwu.edu>
From: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Wrong Way Corrigan
Date: 14 Sep 92 21:38:36 GMT
Reply-To: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.  Engineering

In article <14SEP199214533690@watson.bms.com>, bullock@watson.bms.com (JOAN 
BULLOCK) writes:
> Did Corrigan truly set out from Long Island (I believe) for the west coast 
> and wind up in Ireland?  Or was that just a cover story and his destination 
> actually was Europe.  Hearsay subscribes to both versions - with equal 
> conviction. 

As I understand it, and this was from Smithsonian, He was unable to 
aquire the legally required permits to takeoff from Long Island
and fly to Europe.

Soooo, to satisfy the authorities, he filed for the West Coast and
went East to Europe.

Tom Pickett 
tpickett@auspex.com
SHO  GOZE
From: alan@metasoft.UUCP (Alan Epstein)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Can we return to Flying?
Date: 10 Sep 92 13:32:56 GMT
Organization: Meta Software Corporation, Cambridge MA

gillett@kludgeomatic.aosg.gsf.dec.com (Chris Gillett AOSG Compilers) writes:
>In the recent past, I've read all sorts of posts in rec.aviation
>about lots of things completely unrelated to flying....
>Please, please, please,.....can we agree to talk politics,
>and debate other issues not germaine to flying off-line, in
>private email?

How about revising the RFV to include a sub-group called
	rec.aviation.digress
where everyone who's feeling disruptive can continue the thread of
their choice along with anyone else who's feeling argumentative and
self righteous. What a concept! This could turn out to be the
largest news group of all, while the other rec.aviation groups might
wither away from disuse.

Oops, sorry. as a comment on the RFV this should have gone into
news.group, although as unrelated to flying it should have gone into
rec.aviation.digress. Nevermind, I'll throw it myself into /dev/trash.


-alan	(8*)>	(8*)>	(8*)>	(8*)>	(8*)>	(8*)>	(8*)>


-----------------------------
Alan Epstein
Meta Software Corp		 Internet:  alan@metasoft.com
125 Cambridgepark Dr		      IAP:  ILS 11 BED
Cambridge, MA 02140  USA	      
-----------------------------
From: lmiller@aero.org (Lawrence H. Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Renting woes...
Date: 15 Sep 1992 19:27:15 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: cavalier.aero.org

In article <1992Sep15.182316.8845@tandem.com> len@Tandem.com (Len Fishler) writes:
>I think, in general, if you have sufficient hours in type, are current, and can
>demonstrate your skills with confidence, the checkout at most FBOs will be almost
>perfunctory, and short.

	Perhaps more important than the aircraft checkout
	is an area briefing.  If you've never flown in the
	LA basin before, for example, you should have at
	least an hour of ground time reviewing the local
	airspace, airports, special flight rules areas, and
	so on.  Any good instructor ought to be able to
	quickly ascertain your flying skills, but time
	spent in reviewing the oddities of the local area
	will be very important.  In fact you should insist
	on such a briefing in any checkout situation.

-- 
Larry Miller		The Aerospace Corporation
lmiller@aero.org	PO Box 92957		
310-336-5597		LA, CA 90009-2957
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: brent@telebit.com (Brent Chapman)
Subject: Re: airshows
Keywords: RANDOLPH CHALLANGER
Organization: Telebit Corporation; Sunnyvale, CA, USA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 23:05:23 GMT

tom-d@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com (Tom Dygert) writes:

>	THE RANDOLPH CHALLANGER (HIGHLY MOD. PITTS 340+HP) WILL BE BACK IN 
>THE WEST AFTER A EXTENSIVE EAST TOUR THIS SUMMER.(22 SHOWS SO FAR). THIS 
>PLANE  IS PILOTED BY SEAN D. TUCKER AND CO-OWNED AND CREWED BY ME. (TOM 
>DYGERT) WE WILL BE AT THE FOLLOWING LOCATIONS SOON.

Folks, if you have a chance, go see this act!  Sean Tucker flies an
_incredible_ routine!


-Brent
--
Brent Chapman                                   Great Circle Associates
Brent@GreatCircle.COM                           1057 West Dana Street
+1 415 962 0841                                 Mountain View, CA  94041
From: tmis1692@altair.selu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: New Career in Flying?
Date: 10 Sep 92 13:37:44 -0600
Keywords: Career, Commercial Pilot
Distribution: world
Organization: Southeastern Louisiana University


Has anybody changed careers at the age of 36 from say programming computers to
flying airplanes for a living?  I see ad's in the magazines that say you can
get a license (commercial) within a year or so provided you go to their school
full time of course.  Now, Can you make say 30 or 40K per year flying when you
graduate?  Is it worth it?  What do you pilots say?  (What is the difference
between a pilot and a stick holder?  The pilot makes money.)
Please reply to TMIS1692@selu.edu as I am not a regular on the list.

Thanks from a (naive?) maybe future pilot.

Kevin Calmes - TMIS1692@selu.edu

PS. Where can I get a cheap rudder/yoke interface for MS FS-4?
From: jac@dvnspc1.Dev.Unisys.COM (Judy Cadmus)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Canard Pros -n- Cons
Date: 15 Sep 92 11:53:55 GMT
Organization: Unisys Corporation, Devon Engineering Offices

Speaking of canards, I saw a for sale ad the other day for a Super Skylane
(Cessna 206) with, among the many other extras, a Horton STOL kit and a
cowling with an optional canard.  Has anyone ever seen this configuration on
a Cessna? 

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Judy Cadmus  PP-ASEL, Instrument Student
Skylane N42202                                  jac@asns.tredydev.unisys.com
From: jim@fjolsvid.css.gov (Jim Wang)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Silver 'C' Duration, Was "What to do on long flights?"
Date: 9 Sep 92 15:05:25 GMT
Reply-To: jim@fjolsvid.css.gov (Jim Wang)
Organization: Science Applications Int'l Corp./Geophysics Div.
In-reply-to: sloubtin@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Sylvain Louboutin)

In article <1992Sep9.113524.2610@dsg.cs.tcd.ie>, sloubtin@dsg (Sylvain Louboutin) writes:
>In <7SEP199210173677@vxcrna.cern.ch> cohler@vxcrna.cern.ch (Mike Cohler) writes:
>
>>In article <gaynier.715824990@s1.elec.uq.oz.au>, gaynier@elec.uq.oz.au 
>>(Ron Gaynier) writes...
>>> 
>>>I had my own long flight yesterday. My 5 hour duration flight for my 
>>silver 'C'.
>>lines deleted....
>
>>Congratulations !   The 5 hours is a difficult task, and I still suffer

Hey, why bother with all this?  It would be an even better trick to get
all three diamonds *without* getting a silver badge!  To do this, you
have to fly your 500km flight in under 5 hours, which is certainly doable.

I wish I had thought of this before I got my silver, but strictly speaking,
I didn't satisfy the reqs for the silver distance.  The rules explicitly
state that it must be a 50km straight out flight; they gave it to me for
a 300km triangle.

Jim
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: hgp@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (howard.page)
Subject: One of a kind Cheetah/Tiger for sale...
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 00:24:02 GMT

Someone in CA is selling a 1978 Grumman Cheetah with a 180hp
O-360 upgrade and a constant speed prop. He claims it's as fast
as a Tiger, but has much better takeoff/climb performance.

It has a nice panel, with C/1 A/P, S-Tec altitude hold,
Foster Loran, and a host of other goodies.  1700 TT, ???
SMOH, ??? SPOH. He has a one time STC for the prop. He's
asking $41K (firm, but who knows?) with a fresh annual.
It's located in the Bay Area (California).

'sounds like a winner to me. I've seen pictures and it
*appears* that this plane has had a lot of TLC.

I was about to play let's make a deal with the guy 'till a
banana fell on my head...

If you're interested, let me know and I'll give you his name...

Howard G. Page
+1 908 949-7077
hgp@neural.att.com

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: peterson@specxn.enet.dec.com (Harlo Peterson)
Subject: Re: Alphabet Airpspace
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Colorado Springs
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 17:05:27 GMT


In article <Sep.2.12.43.04.1992.20147@pilot.njin.net>, ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie) writes...
>> Special VFR will be available in all class B to E airspace unless otherwise
>> noted.  Basically if you can get an IFR clearance you can get special VFR.
> 
>I don't understand the last statement.  If I can get an IFR clearance,
>I don't need special VFR.  If you mean, I can get special VFR anywhere
>I can get an IFR clearance, that's untrue.  The places where Special
>VFR is specifically prohibitted are mostly in Class B/C airspace now.

You took my second sentence you quoted out of context.  Read it in the
context of the first one.  Note the phrase "unless otherwise noted".

--
Harlo Peterson                       Digital Equipment Corporation
      harlo.peterson@cxn.mts.dec.com 1110 Chapel Hills Drive (CXN2/35)
      719-260-3003                   Colorado Springs, CO 80920-3995
From: robg@Apple.COM (Rob Griffiths)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Hinckley Crash
Date: 9 Sep 92 16:46:18 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Sep8.222131.12575@eecs.nwu.edu> phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre) writes:
>
>This is just simply not true.  Skydivers are explicitly waived from
>the requirement to be seated and belted on takeoff and landing(!)

Umm, last time I checked, this is also not true.  There are no exceptions
to the seated and belted rule for skydivers.  Now, I believe that some of
the FSDO's have, in years past, ignored enforcing this regulation.

However, after the Perris Valley crash earlier this year, the FAA began
to enforce the belt regulation.  There were several stories on rec.skydiving
about planes being grounded due to a lack of belts.

With the Hinckley crash, I would expect an increased focus on the safety
of jump planes, from both a maintenance and load carrying standpoint.

>You can pile 10 skydivers in to a plane that would normally only
>have 6 passenger seats.  It is clear that the FARs regard skydivers 
>as "special" passengers.

True.  In years past, all that was really a focus was weight and balance.
Going forward, I think this may be changing...

-rob.
-- 
Rob Griffiths    "And the future will be better tomorrow" - Dan Quayle
robg@apple.com   PP-ASEL-IA, looking for clouds .... B52s/REM/Erasure!
From: b1zcxzw@kato.BELL-ATL.COM (Ruhl)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Can we return to Flying?
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:30:59 GMT
Organization: Bell Atlantic

In article <1992Sep9.205743.1567@aosg.gsf.dec.com> gillett@kludgeomatic.aosg.gsf.dec.com (Chris Gillett AOSG Compilers) writes:
>
>In the recent past, I've read all sorts of posts in rec.aviation
>about lots of things completely unrelated to flying.  

Although some of your examples were valid, issues such as the DEA, the 
environment, politics, etc. and their effect on the GA community are 
extremely germane in any discussion of aviation.  We all have to remember that
flying is a PRIVILEDGE not a RIGHT given to us by the "government" (whoever
that may be).  Therefore, any actions taken to adulterate this priviledge
should be taken very seriously.

Just recently, legislation was pending that would allow the DEA to SHOOT DOWN
general aviation aircraft suspected of involvement in drug related activities.
The fact that the legislation was not passed is due, mainly, to an impassioned
speech by a GA pilot and senator, John Glenn.  I am glad that this particular
pilot chose to extend his "love of flying" to include political discussions.

Concern for the politics and policies that affect the general aviation
community is the responsibility of every pilot.  Without this concern,
discussion of the actual act of flying may become just that.  Discussion.

Bill
-- 

================================================================================
 Bill Ruhl              | The preceding statements do not represent the opinions
 AOPA Sundowner N2248L  | of me or my employer.  They are just what I think.
From: randys@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Randy Stockberger)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:05:19 GMT
Subject: Re: FAA Records
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

Howard Petri asks:

>      I didn't get a reply to this one yet so I'll try again. 
> Recently there was a post on how to contact the FAA in regards to one's
> personal aircraft records and their accuracy. Could somebody please repost 
> this information. If inaccurate, are these records easily corrected?
----------
I didn't see the original post and don't know how to get the records.
But I do know how to find out how to get the records, which is almost as
good.  In the back of the A/FD for each region there is a list of FSDO
offices with addresses and phone numbers.  Call up the closest, most
convenient FSDO, tell them what you want to do and ask them how to do
it.  I would expect them to give you a phone number in Kansas City where
you can get the information you are after.

Your posting appears to have originated in Indiana, so you may want to
consult the East Central A/FD.  The Eugene, OR. FSDO is:

	Mahlon Sweet Field
	28829 Lockheed Dr., Suite 2
	Eugene, OR 97402
	503-688-9722

Everyone I have ever delt with at the FAA, including the local FSDO has
been very helpful with every request that I have ever made.  This may
change if I ever have a difficult request or run into a 'bad' person,
but they are batting 100% so far.

A/FD - Airport / Facilities Directory
FSDO - Flight Services District Office
FAA  - Funky Avian Advisors
OR   - Oregon - Home of the Rustless Natives
Xref: sparky rec.aviation:15269 comp.sys.ibm.pc.games:12749
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: Air Lifeline experience
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
	<Sep.13.14.19.24.1992.784@pilot.njin.net>
	<SHAFER.92Sep13120006@ra.dfrf.nasa.gov>
	<1904tpINN54j@smaug.West.Sun.COM>
	<SHAFER.92Sep13133023@ra.dfrf.nasa.gov>
	<1992Sep14.114252.22973@sctc.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:34:47 GMT

On Mon, 14 Sep 1992 11:42:52 GMT, beede@sctc.com (Mike Beede) said:

Mike> shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes:

>Low-wing aircraft work best for people who can't walk, BTW.

Mike> I'm a little curious about this.  I assume you're talking GA aircraft,
Mike> since by the time you get to the big iron, no one gets near the wings
Mike> anyway.  So, I'd imagine that hoisting yourself over the wing would be
Mike> much more of a chore than just getting into the seat, a la Cessna 172.
Mike> Was this a typo, or is this just yet another time when intuition is a
Mike> poor guide to reality?

You're right that I was referring to GA aircraft, although the big
iron high-wing aircraft like the C-5, C-130, and C-141 all have
wheelchair ramps, unlike the low-wing Boeing and Douglas aircraft.

In a low-wing aircraft, you transfer from your wheelchair to the top
of the wing and then scooch (that's a technical term, but I think you
can deduce the meaning :-) up the wing root to the door and then move
yourself up over the sill into the seat.  This is fairly easy because
the trailing edge is at about the same height as the wheelchair seat.
"Transfer" means move from one to the other, without standing up.

High wing planes mean that someone has to lift you into the seat.
Plus the gear is usually in an awkward place.

Mind you, this won't stop the truly determined and we've flown in
a lot of not very easy to get into planes.  

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous
From: doshay@ursa.arc.nasa.gov (David Doshay)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Canard Pros -n- Cons
Date: 12 Sep 92 00:33:50 GMT
Organization: NASA-Ames Biocomputation Center

In article <1992Sep11.014728.13453@tc.cornell.edu>, braner@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Moshe Braner) writes:
|> Some articles I have read have destroyed my early enthusiasm with
|> canards.  Any clean light small plane will go fast on little power,
|> i.e., be efficient.  The horiz stab of a standard plane does NOT
|> need to generate negative lift for stability.  That's a common
|> myth...  ... much deleted about lift ....
|> 
|> - Moshe

All of this is true, but may still be of almost no consequence. It depends
upon what you want to use the plane for. Some like canards because they look
cool (and others are allowed to think otherwise). Some like the stall-proof
nature of a properly designed canard, mostly because if they cannot stall
then they cannot spin. I like the canard layout because I do not like sitting
right over the wing or just below the wing. The canard design allows me to 
have one wing in front of my feet and the other a few feet behind my head.
There are other ways to get the wings out of my way (like the Cirrus), but
the canard configuration works just fine too.

An airplane is a huge batch of comprimises. First pick a mission profile,
then design the plane around those requirements.

David		doshay@soma.arc.nasa.gov
presently sitting below the wing

The thought police insist I tell you:
my thoughts, not NASA's
From: foonberg@aero.org (Alan M. Foonberg)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Phone number for USAIG?
Date: 9 Sep 1992 02:52:28 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: altair.aero.org


Can someone send me a phone number for the USAIG insurance company?

Thanks.
-- 
Alan Foonberg
foonberg@aero.org
From: brianh@pongo.Eng.Sun.COM (Brian Horn)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Air Lifeline experience
Date: 13 Sep 1992 03:35:13 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: pongo

In article <1992Sep5.230825.33148@pro-carolina.cts.com> gatech!pro-carolina.cts.com!delton (Don Elton) writes:
>If someone flying "air lifeline" or some other such charity flying service
>were to just donate the money they spend on these missions to the people in
>need directly they'd probably find that the money would go farther for a
>commercial flight in many cases.  Again, remember that the urgency for such
>trips isn't as great as many would have you believe.

Although there are some cases where the above is true, a large percentage
of AirLifeLine flights do *not* fall into that catagory.  For instance:

1) The patient cannot tell exactly how long they will need to be at the
   hospital and thus cannot book ahead a flight with a reasonable fare.

2) The patient is not near a major airport and thus faces a two hour ground
   trip to and from the airport *beyond* the flight time.

3) The patient is not near a major airport, but is near a smaller commuter
   cover airport, but those tickets tend to be expensive (and few flights).

4) The airline won't take the patient because the patients condition is
   "too disturbing" for their other patrons (yes, this *does* happen).

5) A quite often, the patient is a child and one or both parents are traveling
   with the child.  Now you have the fares of two or three rather than one
   making the cost of the GA plane a finacial advantage.

6) The patient has special requirements, such as a wheelchair that needs to
   go with them and the airlines are not really ready to deal with those
   special needs.  Or even the need for an interpreter to travel with
   the patient.

BTW, AirLifeLine *does* sometimes put patients on scheduled airline flights.
Sometimes the airline is kind enough to donate the seat and sometimes an
AirLifeLine member will pop for the air fare.