HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bobp@msi.com (Bob Pitha)
Subject: Soy margarine gripe
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:57:58 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Summary: Grrrrr...
X-Posted-From: phoenix.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

We keep a mostly-vegan household, and therefore use soy margarine.  Now,
I know margarine is losing favor, but since we don't use a lot of it, and
do like to have something on our english muffins and toast, we don't mind
buying it.  However, one of the local whole-food supermarket chains in
the area, Bread and Circus, has recently stopped carrying any sort of
margarine.  I went in there and found only butter available.

I really object to this sort of health fascism.  I had always thought
that this store was a good place to shop - a bit pricey, but they always
had good selection and all.  But here they're telling me that they've
decided to protect me against the evil health problems that margarine
can cause, even though they continue to sell meat, butter, and eggs.

My question is, is this really reasonable of them?  Is margarine really
that evil?  I am, of course, going to write to them and complain, but
I was wondering what the prevailing attitude among the hoi polloi is.
Am I weird for wanting a little margarine?  Should I just eat my muffins
dry (ack!) or pour a little canola oil on them?  Should I give up one
of my few remaining prandial pleasures and look forward to a lifetime
of dull, uninteresting meals?  (OK, I'm exaggerating.  I actually don't
find a vegan diet to be boring at all).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Pitha                      Molecular Simulations Inc.
bobp@msi.com                   16 New England Executive Park
(617) 229-9800 x242            Burlington, MA 01803-5297
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: uad1214@dircon.co.uk (Peter Cox)
Subject: WHO & Iron - Have They Gone Mad?
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 04:37:32 GMT


I just caught part of an interview on BBC World Service
with Dr. Barbara Underwood of the WHO (World Health
Organisation).  She was making some pretty wild claims
about vegetarians being deficient in iron.  At one point,
the interviewer asked her what vegetarians should do about
it. Part of her answer included the advice to eat RAW
potatoes!!!

Does anyone know if the WHO has an Internet address so I
can follow this up?

Thanks!

-- 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                     Peter Cox
uad1214@dircon.co.uk           CompuServe 100012,221 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Fibre: Introduction
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 08:37:35 GMT


         "Things sweet to taste prove in digestion sour"
          Shakespeare (from "The Winter's Tale, III:2)

I.  INTRODUCTION

Some recent queries about fibre have arose.  To help sort things
out a bit, I hope you will find the following information to be
helpful.  Like the story with "fats/oils" that I posted earlier,
things are more complicated than we might have initially thought,
and as with the story of fats, not all fibres are equal.

I've taken most of what follows from Hunt & Groff's text,
ADVANCED NUTRITION AND HUMAN METABOLISM, 1990.

To satisfy the complaint that some of my postings are too long, I
will post each of the separate sections of this one overview as
separate postings.  In this way, the reader can choose which
section(s) to read or ignore.

                                        ted

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: dbader@eng.umd.edu (David Bader)
Subject: Jerry Garcia cross-post from rec.music.gdead
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 93 16:47:45 GMT
Organization: Professional Student, University of Maryland, College Park
Keywords: Veg-heads
Originator: dbader@mountaindew.eng.umd.edu


Is Jerry a vegetarian yet?? read on:


Article: 75103 of rec.music.gdead
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Organic Foods "Non-essential"???
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 02:34:24 GMT

Bill Maddex writes:

>All considerations of eco-ethics and people's desire not to ingest poison 
>aside, the fact is organic foods taste better.  The best restaurants all
>at least prefer organic, and the very best, like Chez Panisse in Berkeley,
>Charlie Trotter's in Chicago and the Quilted Giraffe in NY use only organic.
>You'd be hard pressed to find a gourmet chef who couldn't tell the difference
>and who didn't prefer organic.  The Journal of Gastronomy had a symposium on
>sustainable agriculture a few years back that got reissued as Our Sustainable
>Table which has a lot of material worth checking out.


Bill, thanks for this interesting confirmation of our own taste 
experience with organic produce. :-)

To contemporize Robert Frost, "there is one thing more exasperating than
a man who can cook and won't, and that is a man who can't cook and
will".   :-(
				Cheers,

        				ted


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet (Clover M.)
Subject: Re: Bill's NYE Dinner, the bibliography
Reply-To: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 08:39:58 GMT


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: comments and questions
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 19:10:42 GMT

altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:


>    GETTING FILES OF GREAT VEGETARIAN RECIPES FROM GRANOLA

>There is databank of many recipes from something call GRANOLA.
>To get these recipes simply use your regular e-mail mailer and
>send to: LISTSERV@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU the following command:


Apparently, the address has of recent been changed to:

          LISTSERV@VTM2.CC.VT.EDU

As of yet, they don't seem to have things set up, as I just
tried to get some files but only got the return message,
"files not yet available".

Alternatively, if you don't use or have an e-mail mailer
system, you can use the following FTP address, assuming that
your system has FTP access:

          128.173.5.164

I believe that Jill has successfully been able to obtain
files from this address.  Why this one should work but not
the e-mail address is a mystery to me.  Does anyone know why
this would be?

                                     ted
From: jaj@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jill A. Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Answer to clove[24~[24~[24~*darn dle keys*
Date: 5 Jan 1993 04:52:18 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu

Hi Clover,  
	I'd be glad to comment about cravings right before your period.  I also
get horrible, awful cravings for food right before I get my period.  I don't 
know why this is, but I usually crave beef also.  I have also been trying to 
quit meat cold turkey, but Sunday I just had to have some beef so lo and behold
I ended up (with my husband) at Ol' Mexico where they don't mince on the amount
of beef, cheese and deep fried items.  I ate and ate and ate and I felt really
really guilty after.  This might have something to do with iron.  I remember 
hearing that you body gets very deficient of vitamins and minerals and such
just before menstruation.  

	I'll have to try soy-moo....I made vegan chocolate chip cookies 
tonight, they turned out really well except that they have the after taste 
from the rice-dream.  Well ok, they weren't totally vegan.  I bought some 
margarine at the grocery store that says 100% CORN OIL in huge letters on 
the front, I just assumed that it meant that all there was was corn oil in 
the stuff, well after looking closer at the box, there's a pile of other 
ingredients in there some of which are animal products.  If anyone is 
interested in the recipe let me know and I'll be glad to post it.  

Jill "getting very tired of job hunting and having no luck"
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: mad4@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Maddex)
Subject: Re: Silk
Reply-To: mad4@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Pranksters for Peace
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 23:36:39 GMT

I have some old silk clothes that I still wear, e.g. my only non-tasteless 
ties and my best sportcoat, but I won't accept silk gifts anymore.  I don't
have great problems w/killing larval insects, but the entire enterprise 
strikes me as dubious from an ecoethical point of view.  

As for a vegan silk sub, I think the best is probably rayon.  My sister used
to work in a natural fiber store and some of the older hippies would freak on
seeing rayon, but it's a natural fiber.  Rayon is made from surplus wood chips
left over from paper making and stuff.  As a native Oregonian and an EF!er,
I'm no fan of the wood products industry, but in OR at least rayon is made
from 'hog fuel,' surplus that would otherwise be burned to generate steam
power.  I sometimes wish there were a George Washington Carver of wasted wood-
it would sure make people think twice about their 'save a logger--eat and owl'
bumper stickers.;-(

Rayon has a texture a lot like silk, though ofr a while it just got treated 
as a slightly less cheesy version of polyester.

Check it out.

Billy Magic

Ignorance of your culture is not considered cool.
					The Residents
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet (Clover M.)
Subject: Re: Brunch idea for Clover
Reply-To: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 09:13:30 GMT

 
What I TRIED to say here was that I never ended up cooking for
his parents, so I can't tell you what I cooked. 

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Insulting you family?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 18:09:23 GMT

Steve Russell writes:


>It has been my experience that the majority of these situations ( not all )
>are tenuous at best.  Just remind your parents you still love/respect them
>and value your heritage and by all means dont let them manuever you into
>doing "nutrition talk" at the dinner table.  Tell them you would be happy
>to talk about it, after dinner etc.  It will be a less threatening and
>tense situation.

This is excellent advice!  Especially good is the concrete suggestion
not to get suckered into, or initiate, "nutrition talk" at the dinner 
table.  Family members constitute an intertwined "system" and the
underlying tensions, cracks, dynamics and so on of that system are
often most powerfully expressed and enacted around the dinner table.
Much more than eating simply occurs around the dinner table.  One
risky technique in family therapy actually consists of a session around
the dinner table!   Don't try it on your own, leave well enough 
alone.

						ted
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: nsingh@hqsun5.oracle (Naunihal Singh)
Subject: Re: Comfort foods for colds
Organization: Oracle Corp., Redwood Shores CA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 19:11:56 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

The best thing that worked for me was black pepper tea. Boil some
whole black pepper corns in water. You can add some other things for
flavor - like honey (unless you dont eat honey) and latchi (sorry -
desi's out there , what is the english for latchi ?). This is great
for stuffed sinuses - they clear right out (almost as good as steam).
Also, sorry I only know the Punjabi word for this, malutti is good for
bad coughs. It is this brownish powder that tastes really stong so it
usually eaten mixed in with honey. It clears out a cough faster than
any over the counter syrup I have ever used.

				Naunihal
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Subject:  Gabe Mirkin
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 93 00:02:38 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

In article <altar.726520532@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
>>Of course, if Gabe Mirkin participated at rec.food.veg, he'd steal
>>the show. He'd talk, and we'd all be listening because he's so much
>>smarter than the rest of us. (Dr. Mirkin the vegetarian MD whose
>>radio talk show I listen to each day.)
>
>No doubt you are right.  Maybe you could help us out by
>taping some of those programs and then transcribing
>the best talks for posting here.


It's funny you asked, Ted. I just spent $600 for a new hi-fi, stereo
receiver. Unlike most listeners whose criteria is good FM music, my
criteria was good AM reception, so I could get good recordings of
Gabe Mirkin's talk show.

e-mail me your address, Ted, and I'll mail you a sample recording. It
will contain 120 minutes of Gabe with the commercials edited out.

People in the Washington, D.C. area can hear Gabe Mirkin from 3-4pm
at 980 AM WRC radio.


                            . . .

Here's an example of something worthwhile that Gabe discussed just
yesterday:

In last month's scientific journal, Food Research International, an
article describes how soaking beans in baking soda helps them cook
faster and improves flavor. In addition, it helps remove the
undigestible sugars that give you gas.

Scientists at the Institute of Human Nutrition of Central America
in Panama showed that soaking beans in a solution of 0.5% sodium
bicarbonate (baking soda) and 2.5% potassium carbonate, gave the
shortest cooking time and improved the quality of the protein.
Concentrations greater or lesser resulted in poorer quality
protein.

The reduction in cooking time resulted in an energy savings of
$0.19 per 2.2 pounds of beans. This could save large institutions
significant money.

                            . . .

Anyway, it's great to have someone like Gabe Mirkin to listen to.
I can't imagine where I'd get information on health, fitness, and
nutrition, were it not for his show. Just reading a book or
magazine is nowhere nearly informative as listening to a
distinguished doctor discuss his personal opinions on what works
and what doesn't.

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: tracy@telesoft.com (Tracy E. Childs @pulsar)
Subject: Re: RECIPES: sandwich spreads
Organization: TeleSoft, San Diego, CA, USA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:59:40 GMT

>how many other veggies out there in r.f.v-land became veg as an
>outgrowth of keeping kosher? I know several (including myself),
>mostly women, and am curious whether it's as common as it seems.

Well, it's gotta be easier than having 4 sets of everything!  But,
unfortunately, most jews find it "worth the trouble" just so they can
eat meat.  Hey, does anyone else think it makes sense that the 
kosher laws were partly to keep us from eating meat?  I also personally
believe they were also because of lack of refrigeration, way back when.
Sorry if jews out there find this offensive (my hubbie does) it's
just my opinion and nothing more.

-- Tracy



Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: Mike_Eisele@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Eisele)
Subject: Re: GM & animal testing
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:19:13 GMT

Ruthann Smith writes:

> Ruthann Schmidt writes:
>
> Msg-ID: <EfGPryO00iV002_2sO@andrew.cmu.edu>
> Posted: 5 Jan 93 16:57:34 GMT
>
> Org.  : University Libraries - Technical Service, Carnegie Mellon,
> Pittsburgh, PA
>
> I don't have the name of a strictly animal rights newsgroup, so I've
> posted this question here. Does anyone know the person/dept/address to
> where I may send a letter to GM concerning the company's use of live
> animals in testing? You can either send email to me or post to the group.
>
> Thanx,
> Ruth Ann
> Pittsburgh, PA



According to the summer 1992 PETA newsletter you can write to GM's new
president, John F. Smith, Jr. at 3044 W. Grand Blvd, GM Building, Detroit, MI
48202.

As far as an animal rights group is concerned, you might want to check out
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) if you haven't already.

I hope this helps.

...Mike Eisele
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: milk substitutes for Jill and others...
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 04:39:38 GMT

Clover M. writes:

>I have a question regadrding becoming a vegan.
> 
>How many of you have gone from meat eating gradually to veganism,
>and how many went cold turkey (like I tried to do)?

I myself did it gradually.  Pico-veg for a couple of months and
then laco-ovo veg for a few years, than lacto-veg for some more
years after that, and then recently in the last year and a half,
a vegan.  I guess I'm just a slow learner  ;-(

Now, according to what Dr. Michael Klaper said in an interview,
about 10% of people who have been life-long heavy meat
eaters will need to undergo a transition period and not attempt
to go "cold turkey" (appropriate pun here intended).  The
high fiber and low fat diet, for instance, can initially cause
to a digestive system accustomed to high fat and low fiber diet
some adjustment problems like that of diarrhea and gas.  Dr. Ballentine
in his book, TRANSITION TO VEGETARIANISM: AN EVOLUTIONARY STEP,
1987, suggests a transition involving first the elimination of
red meat ("sans rough", if you please), then the elimination
of poultry ("sans rough-blanche"?), and then elimination of
fish.  Now one is a vegetarian.  After this, we can
then move towards being a vegan.

So, you've done very well.  No need to feel guilty about
minor lapses, the important thing is that you made the
transition, and really quite abruptly at that.  So, don't
feel bad about those "transgressions", feel good about the
real success you have achieved.  :-)

[...]
>So, here it is, January.  I am extending my original one month experiment
>to a second month, and we shall see how long it will last.  I have a 
>feeling that if I keep to it long enough, it will become a matter of habit.
> 
>What do you all think?

Maybe this is what habit is all about, where the LIVED practice of a 
new life style becomes familiar and then automatic.  Through a consistency 
of eating "as" a vegetarian the habit of "being" a vegetarian arises 
on its own, as will the old eating habits diminish on their own.
The trick, I think, is over-coming the unfamiliarity of a new 
dietary choice.  It seems that you are doing quite well in that 
regard.  Again, congratulations.  :-)

					Vegan Cheers,
						ted

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Fibre: How Do Vegetarians Fare?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 08:44:39 GMT



X.  FIBRE INTAKE AND VEGETARIANS

We've seen that a varied selection of fibre should be ingested,
now the question is how much?

The recommendation for the general population has ranged from 20
to 40 grams/day, and may up to 50 gram/day for
hypercholesterolemic individuals.  The National Health and
Nutrition Examination Survey (1976-1980) showed that the
consumption of fibre was lower than expected.  Young white males
(19 to 29 years) had the highest intake of 13 g/d, while older
black males (55 to 74 years) and middle-aged black females (30 to
54 years) had the lowest intake averaging 7.4 g/d.

Presumably people are consuming more fibre since that survey was
taking, but it is likely that the greater majority of people are
still not consuming enough.

A recent survey (Carlson, 1985) of vegetarians have shown:

        vegans                          45 g/d
        vegetarians in general          38 g/d
        omnivores                       22

Rather than simply "adding" refined fibre to one's current diet,
the better approach is to thinks in terms of a dietary change of
foodstuffs that simply include foods with more fibre and excludes
foods (like meat or dairy products) that have none.  Vegetarians
naturally do well in this respect :-)

If you think that you need more fibre in your diet, then consider
a dietary change that includes:

    1.  a greater consumption of fibre-rich legumes
    2.  increased consumption of fresh fruits and vegetables
    3.  replacement of refined cereals and flour products to ones
    made by whole grains.
    
Vegetarians have no problem in getting enough fibre, but some may
not be getting a great enough VARIETY of fibre due to an omission
or shortage one or two of the above three areas.  A bad practice
is to simply consume large amounts of a single source of purified
fibre.  Better to simply eat a variety of fibre by simply eating
a variety of whole foods.  By ensuring that at least 60% of
energy is in the form of whole, complex carbohydrates the
resulting dietary patter will perforce increase present intakes
of dietary fibre.  Vegetarians, as we have seen, do well in this
regard.  :-)

                                     ted

References:

Hunt & Groff's (1990), ADVANCED NUTRITION AND HUMAN METABOLISM,
    1990.

Carlson et al. (1985).  A comparative evaluation of vegan,
    vegetarian and omnivore diets.  J. PLANT FOODS, 6:89-100

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet (Clover M.)
Subject: Re: Answer to clove[24~[24~[24~*darn dle keys*
Reply-To: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 06:36:44 GMT

Any chocolate chip cookies that are vegan (I have vegan margarine in
my fridge) would INDEED be a good thing.  Please post any and all
recipes for goodies that I can make while attempting this dietary
change - to console me for that Ben and Jerry's that I didn't eat,
or for the cheeseburger, or for the, well... I could go on forever.
 
Oh, any suggestions for things I can serve my fiance's parents for brunch?
Both are hard-core meat and potatoes, 50's style people - He hunts, she
serves chex-mix.
 
*SIGH*

Clover
la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
This is my very first sig.file
From: tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara McDermott)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Comfort foods for colds
Date: 5 Jan 1993 22:37:12 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, Chesapeake Biological Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: starburst.umd.edu

koosman@martha.utcc.utk.edu (Toby Koosman) writes:

>sinuses anyway.  I also drink Eichinasia tea (which I bet is not spelled
>that way).  

Nope.  It's spelled Echinacea, pronounced eck(as in deck)-in-A(as in
the letter)-sh(as in hus)-uh.  Expensive stuff, but supposed to be be
good.
>-- 
>Toby Koosman                                Internet: koosman@utkux1.utk.edu
>University of Tennessee                     Bitnet: takoosma@utkvx             
>Knoxville, TN  USA       

--
Tara McDermott               
tara@starburst.umd.edu       
I eat tofu, and I vote.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@aton.abo.fi
Subject: Re: Little Tyke the Veggy Lion
Organization: ]bo Akademi
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 09:20:54 GMT

The story shows one of the blind beliefs that science 
has generated. There are probably hundreds of them in
the non-physical sciences, and a few in the physical
sciences as well. Newton's law was the gospel till the
theory of relativity was understood and found to be
genuine.

Abhay
From: patth@panix.com (Patt Bromberger)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: going vegan: bit by bit or cold turkey (for Clover)
Date: 7 Jan 93 16:34:32 GMT
Followup-To: rec.food.veg
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC

In article <19294@mindlink.bc.ca> Christine_Code@mindlink.bc.ca (Christine Code) writes:
>>[deleted]
>[     ]
>
>I tried at least one vegetarian recipe per week from then on.  Some of them
>were awful, and every once in a while I'd luck out and find a really good
>one. Once I had 3 or 4 good vegetarian dinner recipes, I stopped eating meat
>completely.  Now I've got about 40 "tested and good" recipes and am still
>testing.
>

Christine,

If you have your 40 "tested and good" recipes on your computer, would
you be willing to share them with us and, perhaps, post them to
rec.food.recipes for archiving?



-- 
Patricia Ann Bromberger                            patth@panix.com
I shall go out in my slippers in the rain. And pick flowers in 
other people's gardens And learn to spit. -- "Warning" by Jenny Joseph
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg