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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:53:35 -0500
Comments:     Warning -- RSCS tag indicates an origin of 11CWATT@GALLUA1
From:         "Keith Watt - Gallaudet Dept. of Education"
              <11CWATT@GALLUA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Second-stage problems in conversation

>>                                                         When I 'interrupt'
>>an ASL signer or an ASL deaf person is following my conversation (if its PSE)
>>that ASL person interprets my 'talking at the same time' as a sign of
>>rudeness whereas, in fact, it is *not* because it's part of hearing
>>culture.  The first time it happened to me, my deaf ASL friend was pissed
>>off at me for 'interrupting' her and it took a long time for us to discover
>>what the problem was.  I honestly didn't realise that in Deaf culture (i.e.
>>in ASL culture) it is considered inappropriate and rude (as if you are NOT
>>listening to what I am saying/signing) to 'interrupt' or even mention/sign
>>anything during the time your deaf person is signing to you.  Rather like
>>the taboo on interrupting someone in a TDD conversation.

Actually, if you don't use "feedback"  in the conversation (which shows you
are following what's being said - and almost always occurs while the other
person is signing), the Deaf person will most likely cut the conversation
short because he thinks you don't understand his sign.  Also, it's VERY
common to interrupt, particularly in an argument.  You "interrupt" by
waving your hand into the sign space between the two speakers.  The person
interrupted can either hold his turn in the conversation (thus not allowing
the other person a turn) by keeping his own hands in the sign space or can
relinquish his turn by taking his hands out of the sign space.  I would
agree that unless you are a) very angry, or b) very good friends you
wouldn't sign a long or off-topic message without first getting control as
described above.  The TTY taboo is dead on pretty much though.

BTW, I'm taking a linguistics class here at Gally that deals with this sort
of thing.  We're talking about communication in general (not limited
or even focusing on deafness), but I find it extremely fascinating!

Later..
Keith

===============================================================================
Keith Watt                              |
Gallaudet University                    | "Exit, pursued by a bear."
Department of Education                 |     Stage direction in Shakespeare's
                                        |     _The Winter's Tale_ (1611)
BITNET:                                 |
11CWATT@GALLUA.BITNET                   |
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: phone answering machine
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 20:38:41 GMT

In article <199209301328.AA29587@rayssd.ssd.ray.com> esther@RAYSSD.SSD.RAY.COM (Esther A. Paris) writes:
>Teddy, regarding answering machines where the caller's voices
>are digitized and then you can listen through your phone...
>
>Does your local telephone company offer voicemail service?

yeah, i can get voice mail... even cheaper than your friend's, at $2.40
a month.  i would just do that, but i would like to be able to
record conversations.  there may be times when i can't understand
no matter how many times the other person repeats himself/herself.
do you know if voice mail typically comes with the ability to do that?

-teddy
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 11:07:07 -0500
Comments:     Warning -- RSCS tag indicates an origin of 11CWATT@GALLUA1
From:         "Keith Watt - Gallaudet Dept. of Education"
              <11CWATT@GALLUA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: John Tracy Clinic

Greetings, my most worthy adversary! <LARGE grin>

>     Welcome back, shana tova...and en garde.

Laugh...I made a promise to myself not to fight with anyone.  I realized
after I sent that message that I was picking on you.  My apologies.  In the
hopes of maintaining peaceful cohabitation in this virtual reality, I will
offer this however:

I still feel that speech and speechreading is disdained in the mainstream
Deaf Culture (now there's an interesting concept).  There are however, many
people who use both of these in addition to ASL.  So let me propose this
idea to the net at large:  in the case of Deaf Culture (and arguably, any
culture) you are not simply "in" or "out", but instead there are degrees of
closeness to the "core" community.  In this case, a person who uses speech
and speechreading along with ASL would probably not be as close to the core
community as someone who did not.  I'm not making any judgements on whether
this is a good or bad thing.  I'll leave that aside for another day as
well.

Opinions?


>it comes down to (as Mimi says) different strokes for different folks.

Fair nuff!

Keith

===============================================================================
Keith Watt                              |
Gallaudet University                    | "Exit, pursued by a bear."
Department of Education                 |     Stage direction in Shakespeare's
                                        |     _The Winter's Tale_ (1611)
BITNET:                                 |
11CWATT@GALLUA.BITNET                   |
===============================================================================
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:55:11 IST
From:         Lew Golan <LEW@TAUNIVM.BITNET>
Subject:      John Tracy Clinic

>                                               (Along the same lines,
> if a deaf child is told, throughout his school years, that he has
> good speech, and discovers upon graduation that only his family and
> teachers can understand his speech, he has a right to be angry.  I've
> heard that *this* kind of deception happens, though I don't know how
> often.)

     Yeah, it's like people who tell a deaf child that she isn't
hearing-impaired or disabled or whatever -- just "different."

Lew Golan, Tel-Aviv University <lew@vm.tau.ac.il>
From: tratnana@EUREKA-GOLD.WBME.JHU.EDU ((Tilak Ratnanather))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: TTY
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:07:19 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: deaf-l@siucvmb.bitnet
Full-Name: Tilak Ratnanather

The following note appeared in the Sci.electronics forum
in USENET and I thought that deafl readers might be able
to send a note to the author (e-mail address given at the
end of the note).

Thanks

Tilak

---------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.electronics
From: wjm@utrcv1 (Bill)
Subject: TTY Deaf Service?
Organization: United Technologies Research Center
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:32:00 GMT

Before I ask my question, I must give some background info:

I have what is referred to as a 'TTY' device.  Basically it is a small
computer terminal type device used for communicating over the phone lines
with some friends who are deaf.

It consists of a keyboard, single line flourescent display, and an
accoustic coupler for a phone's handset.

As I understand things, the TTY service for the deaf runs at some
non-standard (per today's modern computer equipment), settings.  I think it
is something like 75 baudot, which defines its binary character set
and transmission speed.  (Suppossedly this is still used because the TTY
service was originally set up by the phone company using old mechanical
teletype devices, and newer TTY units must adhere to the standard for
compatibility.)

Now for my question:

Is there a product available (or plans for a kit), that would allow me to
use my PC as a TTY device?

Besides the luxury of a nice keyboard and monitor, it would be convenient
for storing messages or sending pre-written messages.  (With appropriate
software.)  And a direct phone connection via my modem would be nicer.

Any help would be greatly appreciated,

+ ><> + ><> + ><> + ><> + ><> + ><> + ><> + ><> + ><> + ><> +
+   __          United Technologies Research Center         +
+  /__)  . / /  Silver Lane MS 74, East Hartford, CT 06108  +
+ /___/_/_/_/_  (203) 727-7484  Internet = WJM@UTRC.UTC.COM +
+   Mazeika                                                 +
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+ God's got an army, not afraid to fight.                   +
+ Soldiers of the cross, and children of the light.         +
+ Warriors of righteousness, with healing in their hands.   +
+ God's got an army, marchin through the land.     -Carman  +
+ <>< + <>< + <>< + <>< + <>< + <>< + <>< + <>< + <>< + <>< +
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 08:45:15 -0500
Reply-To:     Joel Finkle <jjfink@SKCLA.MONSANTO.COM>
From:         Joel Finkle <jjfink@SKCLA.MONSANTO.COM>
Subject:      Denmark's Coasts (still!?)

I think the confusion that has arisen regarding whether Denmark can be
moved through by fleets, and whether it has two coasts is really caused
by the fact that the Denmark/Sweden border can be traversed by armies.

There are no other breaks in the land that can be crossed, that are not part
of a single region (Kiel, Constantinople).  For instance, you can't move
Spain to North Africa, or Apulia to Albania.  This is pretty much clearly
marked on the board, as Denmark and Sweden are adjacent, whereas Spain and
North Africa are separated by a pair of seas.

Has anyone played any variants with other bridges?  Say Lon/Bel, Spa/NAf?

Joel
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Sat, 26 Sep 1992 15:23:00 -0400
Reply-To:     George Boyce <george@NR-TECH.CIT.CORNELL.EDU>
From:         George Boyce <george@NR-TECH.CIT.CORNELL.EDU>
Subject:      Re: programming the judge
              26 Sep 92 20:04:05 BST."
              <9209261907.AA11728@mitchell.cit.cornell.edu>

me> Well, except to make it easier to program the judge.

you> It makes sense to be strict about orders from the point of view of Judge.

If I can't use "sense" to talk about Diplomacy, they you can't use it
to talk about computer programs! :-)

Seriously though, this notion that something works the way it does
because of implied limitations in the supporting computer program
will, I hope, become a thing of the past. If not, it will be a very
dull 21st century. The judge is *great*. But all programs can be
"improved" and adding (optional) support for miswritten orders should
be (parhaps at the bottom) of the list of improvements.

Then we can modify our computer players up to version 2 to take
advantage of miswritten orders to the computer adjudicator. Then all
the v1 computer players will say to themselves, but he is a computer,
how could he have miswritten an order? Ah, he must be a *human* player
trying to pretend to be a computer player. Well, I'm smarter than
that...

George
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Sat, 26 Sep 1992 11:36:57 EDT
Reply-To:     Jamie <PL436000@BROWNVM.BITNET>
From:         Jamie <PL436000@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: DENMARK

>From:         amt5man@SUN.LEEDS.AC.UK

>(1)  Is there a waterway in Denmark?
>
>The question is irrelevant.  If you look at the map then you will
>see that the province of Denmark also includes some sea surrounding it.

Good point.

>(2) Is it possible to move fom NTH-Den and then from Den-BAL?
>
>Yes.  This is obvious from the structure of the map, and
>is the way the game has been played since the release of the 1961
>rulebook (and possible with the 1959 rules, I can't remember).
>If you think that players have been playing with the wrong rules
>for over 30 years then you may care to consider that Alan Calhamer
>has played in a number of postal games and diplomacy tournaments and
>has never objected to this rule.

Right. It isn't COMPLETELY obvious from the rules. But it is everyone's
interpretation, and the best supported one, and established practice,
and clearly what Calhamer intended. Enough.

>(3) Is there a new edition of the rules coming out?
>
>Avalon-Hill are planning a "de-luxe" edition of the game which will
>contain a copy of a revised "Gamer's Guide To Diplomacy".  Some of the
>rules may be clarifed *but* there will be no changes to the existing rules.

Cool. I didn't know that. (Also, love that British usage, with plural
verbs for collective nouns....)
However, Dippers ought to know that there HAS been a significant change
in the rules since the 1976 edition. The change involves the convoy
rule and the cutting of support, and was designed to eliminate the
Pandin Paradox (I hope I've got his name right). There was a good bit
of discussion of the change and the paradox in an issue of EP about
a year ago or so.

Jamie
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:31:58 EDT
Reply-To:     Nick Fitzpatrick <nick@SUNBURN.UWATERLOO.CA>
From:         Nick Fitzpatrick <nick@SUNBURN.UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject:      How to get off DIPL-L (and etiquette reminder)

In light of the 30+ mail messages sent this weekend, perhaps it
is time again for the DIPL-L etiquette reminder:
---------------------
DIPL-L is a mailing list, if you send anything to DIPL-L@mitvma, it will get
sent to EVERYONE on the list, so do not do this unless it is important.
DIPL-L is also gatewayed to Usenet as the group bit.listserv.dipl-l

(Get me off the list, please send me a copy of the Hall of Fame and
is so and so a member of this list are NOT important)

If you are discussing finicky little details, perhaps direct E-mail
would be more appropriate.

If you receive DIPL-L through the mail and want to get off the list,
send the command
unsub dipl-l       to listserv@mitvma.mit.edu

if this does not work, please tell me, and I will remove you!
------------------------
Nicholas Fitzpatrick - DIPL-L Maintainer
         		nick@sunburn.uwaterloo.ca
------------------------
PS  and if you think YOU got a lot of mail messages this weekend, not
that to date I have received 9 messages for each one sent out.  That adds
upt to over 270 messages.  (Two copies of each, 4 people who don't seem
to exist, and three people whose machine is down.).   Whatsmore, some
peoples machines will remind you they are down, once a day for up to 12
DAYS!
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via:        UK.AC.LEEDS.GPS; 26 SEP 92 15:42:45 BST
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Sat, 26 Sep 1992 15:30:05 BST
Reply-To:     amt5man@SUN.LEEDS.AC.UK
From:         amt5man@SUN.LEEDS.AC.UK
Subject:      DENMARK

There have been a number of comments recently about
Denmark and fleet movements.  Here are the facts for those of
you who are not certain of the rules:

(1)  Is there a waterway in Denmark?

The question is irrelevant.  If you look at the map then you will
see that the province of Denmark also includes some sea surrounding it.

(2) Is it possible to move fom NTH-Den and then from Den-BAL?

Yes.  This is obvious from the structure of the map, and
is the way the game has been played since the release of the 1961
rulebook (and possible with the 1959 rules, I can't remember).
If you think that players have been playing with the wrong rules
for over 30 years then you may care to consider that Alan Calhamer
has played in a number of postal games and diplomacy tournaments and
has never objected to this rule.

(3) Is there a new edition of the rules coming out?

Avalon-Hill are planning a "de-luxe" edition of the game which will
contain a copy of a revised "Gamer's Guide To Diplomacy".  Some of the
rules may be clarifed *but* there will be no changes to the existing rules.

Mark
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 12:57:08 EDT
Reply-To:     Jamie <PL436000@BROWNVM.BITNET>
From:         Jamie <PL436000@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Question about the judge

>From:         S9IK9@STARBURST.USCOLO.EDU

>how can you get a full list of what the judge commands are.

GET INDEX

>more specifically
>how do you use the history command??

HISTORY <gamename>

will get you about a 100 lines of the most recent stuff sent out
in that game. You can specify a FROM option, using a real time
date, and you'll get all the mailings about that game since that
date.

But get the INDEX file, it'll be more helpful.

JD
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Sat, 26 Sep 1992 17:02:11 -0400
Reply-To:     George Boyce <george@NR-TECH.CIT.CORNELL.EDU>
From:         George Boyce <george@NR-TECH.CIT.CORNELL.EDU>
Subject:      Diplomacy maps

I have a program that takes the status of a Diplomacy game and
produces a (postscript) map of the game, complete with units
indicating positions and arrows indicating which moves were attempted
and which failed etc. It currently does a pretty good job on any
report, or series of reports, sent out by the judge. It tries to skip
header and trailer lines of mail files so I, for example, just pipe a
given mail message directly to the program and out comes a map on the
printer. If the report is a movement report, it can print out a second
map of the resulting positions. If the report has a center ownership
section, that will get put on the map too, as do movement orders.

It has support for the most common variants including youngstown. It
shouldn't be hard to support others if a postscript version of the map
already exists.

The program is written in C and is in the public domain. It is free to
anyone who wants it or who wants to put it on an ftp or mail server.
It is 150K as a uuencoded compressed tar file.

George
grb1@cornell.edu
From: desper@MATH.RUTGERS.EDU (Rick Desper)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Subject: Second the Merlin ban
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:42:40 GMT
Reply-To: Rick Desper <desper@MATH.RUTGERS.EDU>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

For anyone who's interested in a good reason to ban merlin player(s)
sign onto Judge and read the history of the game belch.

I second the merlin ban.  It's hard enough  keeping players in games
without the participation of irresponsible players who have no
intention of playing on.

				Rick
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via:        UK.AC.LEEDS.GPS; 28 SEP 92 15:31:54 BST
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:30:03 BST
Reply-To:     amt5man@SUN.LEEDS.AC.UK
From:         amt5man@SUN.LEEDS.AC.UK
Subject:      TUC Rides Again

> To add another voice to the cacophony around Unwanted Convoys:  I
> disagree with
> people who regard it as legitimate.


Well, under the 1971 rulebook (and many of the subsequent ones) it is, of
course, legitimate.  It is only "illegal" if you use one of the North
American rulebooks which specifies that convoys must always specify a
route.


> What is important to remember is that
> Diplomacy is basically a board wargame set in a political (diplomatic)
> context.
> Thus I believe we should keep some kind of realism to the tactics.  It is
> unreasonable to suppose that WWI soldiers would have jumped on enemy boats
> when they had assumed they were driving to the next province.

   Realism?  Realism?!  REALISM!!  WWI provides an abstract setting for the
diplomacy mechanism.  Realism goes as far as the names of the 7 powers,
and ends about there.



> While Diplomacy does bend historical reality with the amount of stabbing etc.
> which can occur, this is strategic and depends entirely on the players.
> Permitting something like an unwanted convoy is a different beast altogether.

   Why?  If we are going to disallow a *legitimate* tactical ploy
(which occurs about once every 1000 or so games...) because we don't like
the realism why don't we change the movement rules?



Jamie!  It's a good think the new rulebook (with the new convoy rule)
outlaws the UWC.  Just think of the fun for something like this:


FRANCE : F(ENC) CEA(Pic)-Bel, F(Bel) SF(Hol)-NTH
ENGLAND: A(Pic)-Bel, F(NTH)H


   If the UWC was allowed the supported attack into NTH would go ahead!
(Even more elaborate and phun examples can be devised!)

mark








----- End Included Message -----
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 12:43:49 MDT
Reply-To:     S9IK9@STARBURST.USCOLO.EDU
From:         S9IK9@STARBURST.USCOLO.EDU
Subject:      changes from 1976 - 1982 rule books

After spending a good deal of itme comparing the 1982 rules to the 1976 rules,
there are only 2 differences that I noticed.

1.)  in section XII

    5.  A CONVOYED ATTACK DOES NOT CUT CERTAIN SUPPORTS.  If a convoyed army
attacks a fleet which is supporting an action in a body of water; and that body
of water contains a convoying fleet, that support is not cut.


    6. BOTH A CONVOY AND AN OVERLAND ROUTE.  If an army could arrive at its
destination either overland or by convoy, one route must be considered and the
other disregarded, depending upon the intent as shown by the totality of the
orders written by the player governing the army.


all the other rules are identical to the '76 rule book.


hope that this helps somebody

mike magnuson
s9ik9@starburst.uscolo.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
From: randall-joshua@CS.YALE.EDU (Joshua Randall)
Subject: Simple (?) Question
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 21:28:30 GMT

As long as we're taling about this...:

Does an attack cut a convoy?  Let's make it a simple, one-fleet attack.

For example (a commone early-game situation), say Italy has A APU, F ION and
Turkey has F AEG.  Italy wants to convoy his Army to Tunis.  But Turkey orders
F AEG-ION.  Does this disrupt Italy's convoy?

Thanks.



-- 
Joshua E. Randall			randall-joshua@minerva.cis.yale.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU