HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kelly Martin)
Subject: Re: NOTICE - Details of the March on Washington
Reply-To: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: Gender Anarchists United
	<1992Dec14.235024.16106@rtsg.mot.com> <29574@castle.ed.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:04:33 GMT

elee52@castle.ed.ac.uk (Bill Gammie) writes:

>In my experience most transvestites say they are straight but eye
>each other up ferociously.  I would say that dealing with transgender
>urges tends to leave little time for a consideration of one's sexual
>orientation leading to a default identification as straight.

NOT.

many transgendered types simply fail to fall into the convienient
boxes of gay, straight, lesbian, or bi.  some are one way when not
dressed and another way when dressed.  most base their preference on
their exhibited gender.  there is often a sense of dualism, or even of
split personalities.

i would hazard that most transgenders have actually spent more, not
less, time contemplating issues of sexual preference.

i find that i prefer females more strongly when i am in a female role
persona than when i am in a male role persona.  my male role persona
(which is not preferred, btw) is sex-neutral as far as preference goes
(but prefers androgynous types, genderwise).

i've added alt.transgendered to the newsgroups on this article.  

kelly
--
Most system flaws can be attributed to unwarrantedly anthropomorphizing the
user.
	-- T.C.Bennett@syse.salford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: daniel@nstn.ns.ca (Daniel MacKay)
Subject: Re: Drooling over the "Europa, Europa" guy.
Organization: NSTN Network Operations Centre, Nova Scotia, Canada
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 17:25:46 GMT

Scot N Gibson wrote:
>>>I just rented "Europa,
>>>Europa" last night.

Daniel _MacKay_ wrote:
>>Sigh.  ObMotss: there is no motss content in this film execpt for some
>>very handsome guys.

Daniel _Gilly_ wrote:
>On the contrary, there is relevance on two levels.  

OK.  I have this confusion cleared up.  I didn't *see* Europa- I checked
with the rep theatre that I didn't see it at.  I saw "Europa, Europa",
which was known in the States as "Zentropa."  Sigh.  

--
Daniel MacKay					daniel@nstn.ns.ca
Homo habilis					Nova Scotia, Canada
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rhiann@carson.u.washington.edu (Sandra Hereld)
Subject: Re: Porno for women vs. Women's porno
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 02:01:26 GMT

I'm going to respond in a couple of pieces...
This one is more about my solitary sex life than any of you want to know.

In article <1992Dec13.094148.13922@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>
>I've been reading some fun stuff recently, a collection of queer male
>porn called "Flesh and the Word." It's edited by the same guy who did
>Hometowns, and I think it's pretty good. There's one really hot
>S&M-type story titled "Blue Light" that originally ran in (I think)
>Drummer. Most of the other stories are pretty good, including more
>emotion than I expected to find in humpy porn. (Yes, it will get you
>off). Buy it if you've been thinking about it.
>                __
I read it, and liked it o.k. but...
I find there is two types of gay male porn:

1st- Stuff in magazines without any pretention to 'litrature' -misspelling int.
You know, "I screwed the contractor," in this months Advocate ad section.
It certainly works for me.  But I wouldn't read it unless I had already made
the decision that I wanted to jerk off right then. 

Second-Vaguely arty porn.  Samuel Steward-Phil Andros, the For the Love
of a Master series, most of Flesh and the Word...
I enjoy reading it, might even read it if I wasn't already feeling ichy, but
it really doesn't work as one-handed reading for me-it doesn't get me off.

The "/" I mentioned before, or at least the explicit subset of it, is 
enjoyable reading *and* gets me off.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: Re: A reply to Mr. Pierce (was Re: PHOBE ALERT: That XX Louis Sheldon...)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 22:13:51 GMT
Organization: (getting there)



I took Steve to task:
  >>Steve Dyer goes on to say:
   >> >It's not that *I'm* offended, but that there are people who will be.
  >>Well, I don't offend all that easily.  But when someone uses 
  >>"limp wristed" in my presence as a synonym for weak, I _am_
  >>offended.

He answered:
 >No, you're absolutely correct.  That was a really terrible way of
 >phrasing it,
Bless you.  As to the rest:
 > and I noticed it myself, as I was mentally reviewing what
 >I wrote as I was driving to work.  (Am I weird, or is this not all that
 >uncommon?)

May I reserve comment on the first part of this?  I'm not sure which
would be more insulting to you, a yes or a no.

As to the mental review, I usually let my own words slide out of my
mind easily, but sometimes something gets caught.  Those are the
ones that work themselves around and around in my brain like
fragments of a Bach fugue.  I've always assumed it was because the
phrase had (so to speak) a rough edge that got caught.


Mara [equally weird]

-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: A Taste of Culture
Keywords: Gay food
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, California
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:28:05 GMT

> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>> rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
>> > rcrice@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (roger.w.crice) writes:

>> >So, how about it?  Is there any food that truly represents
>> >queer couture?  Does anyone have a favorite "dish?"
>>
>> Obviously, anything from Arne's Joan Crawford Cookbook,
>> or arnold's Virgin Mary's Spinach Delite, or even a
>> Birkenstock Casserole -- since this *is* a potluck..
>
>Oh, I don't know about that, Rod.  I can't recall any
>recipes from _My Way of Life_ that might truly represent
>queer *couture*.  I'm not even sure what queer couture
>is these days.  Are bicycle shorts still in?  Levis with
>faded crotches and the top button undone?  Queer
>sophisticates always look divine in black leather jackets,
>but I'm not sure what food might represent a black leather
>jacket.  Anyone have any ideas?

Why, Joe Boxer flannel jammies of course!  My faves are the
pink ones with kitchen appliances all over 'em, but the royal
blue with bacon 'n' eggs come a close second.  And these
have the politically savvy advantage of being appropriate for
any and all sexes and gender-identifications...

Yesterday's SF Examiner had local fashion designers'
suggestions for upgrading Bill Clinton's wardrobe (they've
done Hillary and Tipper already).  Nick Graham, Joe Boxer's
tres gai alter ego, expressed disdain for Willie's jogging
outfits and suggested instead a buffalo plaid union-suit
festooned with unpeeled bananas.  The accompanying artist's
impression was very dashing... :-)

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: StarOwl@uiuc.edu (StarOwl)
Subject: Re: Is it actually 10%??
Originator: mda46419@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Reply-To: StarOwl@uiuc.edu
Organization: Actuarial Science Program at UIUC
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 06:59:29 GMT

japg0962@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (John Allen Phebus) writes:

>I think this post was very thoughtful.  Much appreciaated.  If only more
>moderates like this were in the christian community!  My experience, however
>has been that this poster does not represent the views of most regular
>churchgoers.

I beg to differ...to a certain degree, at least.

It is true that the lesbigay-positive folks within the Church, in
all of its various incarnations and denominations, are certainly
in the minority.  However, I'm willing to bet a hundred zlotys
that the majority of Christians, in the U.S. at least are to a decent 
degree, tolerant of non-het folks.

Possibly my largest complaint against the Fundies' tactics is that
too many people in the U.S., if not the world, develop the impression
that all Christians are of the rabid, Bible-bashing, "convert or
burn in HELL!!" school.

Most of us are fairly quiet folks, who try and spread the Word
through more subtle means -- Good Actions rather than Good
Words -- and won't even attempt to convert someone who does
not want to be converted.  Shoot, there are even several of us
who realize that people can get the Word in a different-but-just-as-
good form through other religions or non/quasi-religious life
philosophies.

Sorry to blow off steam that's largely inappropriate for this group,
but the topic is a sore spot for me.  Right Wing Christians (Fundies)
give Christianity a bad name and all too frequently miss the Point.


-- 
Michael D. Adams       (aka StarOwl)	| Of all sexual aberrations, chastity
StarOwl@uiuc.edu       (NeXT mail OK)	| is the strangest. -- Anatole France
anon.46@pax.tpa.com.au (anonymously)	|------------------------------------
an692@anon.penet.fi    (anonymously)	| NBCS: B1f+t-w+g+k++s+me+h-qv
From: rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: "HIV-infected molest suspect outrages town"
Date: 10 Dec 92 23:15:25 GMT
	<13561@optilink.COM>
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, Ca.
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <13561@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:

   # Well, for one, my benefits from my spouse's employer are taxable income.  Your
   # wife's are not.
   # -- 
   # ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF

   Yes, they certainly are.  The only insurance that the employer
   picks up is mine.  I pay for insurance for my family.

Sigh.  Clayton, You're misrepresenting things again, aren't you?

Your spouse's benefits are taxable only because your employer doesn't
have an insurance plan that covers your spouse (or because you are
choosing not to put her on the plan if they have it).

This, of course, has nothing to do with what we have been discussing,
which is employers who do cover spouses.

--

  - Ronald Hayden

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
   | Documentation Manager, Oracle Toolkit Group                    |
   | Co-chair of Oracle Lambda, Oracle's Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual group |
   | Writer, magician, and various other things                     |
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: The MOW Platform (was Re: NOTICE - Details...)
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:46:57 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.180815.10249@gordian.com> mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
>  Let's turn this around, if the inner sanctum were run by
>a bunch of libertarians and did some pretty good PR would
>you feel quite as comfortable? 

Of course not, but I'd still go.  The time has come
for us to put a MASSIVE gay appearance in in Washington,
and even if I don't agree with the particulars of the
platform I'll be there.

>  You're telling a libertarian that issues aren't related in
>a broader context? Snort. 

Wow - somebody just made me spray coffee all over my
screen.  You're kidding, right?

>My point is
>that the MOW is a gay event and trying to make it into an
>all encompassing "indentity politics" is rather exclusionary
>since it implies that there is some sort of consensus on what
>those politics might be. 

Look, there will never be consensus on a platform for
the march (and I'm a fan of consensus process).  In fact,
if you've ever worked in a consensus-driven organization
you know that part of consensus process is knowing how
to compromise, and sometimes knowing when to shut up and
live with something you don't agree with.  (I might note
my amusement at your assertion that by being inclusive,
the platform is exclusive.  You're not one of those "don't
be intolerant of the bigots" folks, are you?)

>Most people are of the Jake-go-because-of-the-party mindset
>and will basically swallow any platform they are presented.

And people accuse liberals of elitism.  Geeze.  I have
a big problem with this kind of characterization of
"most people."

>> I don't believe that Jake has ever claimed to be a libertarian.
>  I don't believe his brain is capable of forming the concepts
>to know what it means one way or the other. 

Such a kidder you are.
--
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
Xref: sparky soc.motss:52050 alt.politics.homosexuality:7884
From: smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Call/Fax/Write Fernandez
Date: 12 Dec 92 15:58:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: hp-col.1gd27iINN818
Organization: Colorado Springs IT Center
NNTP-Posting-Host: fajita19.cs.itc.hp.com

[please direct followups to: alt.politics.homosexuality]

owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley) writes:
> another thought Walter, whats more important *one* individual child living
> in a nightmare of hiding the reality of their own home situation, or the
> ratio you ask for.

The reason I asked about the ratio is that an earlier poster said this:

>The purpose of this curriculum is not to promote homosexuality.  The curriculum
>is intended to extend the definition of family to include all the families
>served by the school district.  A growing number of these families are headed
>by two adult partners of the same sex.

So I was trying to get a feel for what the numbers are.  

> I'm starting to think that perhaps you are not being completely
> forthcoming about why you are engaging in this discourse.
> You have come to this forum with claims of wanting to learn, but some things
> you say seem.... odd. Are yu playing Good-cop to Claytons Bad-cop?

(in my best Steve Martin) Well EXCUUUUUSE MEEEEEE.  I guess someone who 
wants to hear and try to understand the side of the story he hasn't been
exposed to yet, but has the *gall* to express opinions that don't agree,
*must* be some secret subversive trying to play cutsie-mind-games with 
you.   

I've been somewhat dismayed by some of the followups and email I've received 
on this thread, because a lot of it indicated a "if you think X, you must
be some gay-bashing fundie", but this takes the cake.  Owen, if you can't 
deal with someone who is willing to hear you out, but 1) has some preconceived
ideas (who the (^*^ doesn't??!?) and 2) may not be convinced by what he hears,
then how can you expect straight people to hear you out??   (pardon the outburst) 

Walter Smith
smithw@cs.itc.hp.com
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Devil CD's
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:40:45 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <Bz4FGC.2Iq@unix.amherst.edu>, twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim
Pierce) wrote:

> You know, Melmon, you might actually be an interesting
> conversationalist if you could remember the thread of a discussion
> beyond the last post in it.

Hah!  Some sorry-assed, snot-nosed bisexual presumes much in 
complaining about the conversational abilities of a Jewish princess...  

*X*
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: cornell@inoc.dl.nec.com (C.J.K.)
Subject: Re: Roseanne and The "Faggot" Insult
Reply-To: cornell@syl.dl.nec.com
Organization: Not very organized
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:10:50 GMT

DLM writes:

>The great thing about the Tonight Show appearance is that the musical guest
>was kd lang! Roseanne and kd sat next to each other - and Roseanne put
>her arm around kd's shoulders. I bought Roseanne's explanation for her
>
I liked that kd kissed Roseanne.  I guess it's commonplace for American
women to do this in public, it was still nice to see kd give a kiss.
From: tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Coming out at work - HELP!
Date: 19 Dec 92 06:17:00 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <47511@ogicse.ogi.edu> markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) writes:
>I am very out at work, but Intel is
>a large company and so lots of people not only don't know I'm gay, they
>don't know me, period.

Well, Mark... how about putting a pink triangle in place of the "i"...
assuming you have one on your badge.  Mine fits nice and snug in the
square in the middle of AMD's "a" :)

And, if that ain't enough advertisment... rainbow coffee mugs are
pretty neat!



-- 
| Tom Barrett (TDBear), Sr. Engineer | tom.barrett@amd.com
| AMD PCD / Austin, TX  78741        | v:512-462-6856 / f:512-462-5155
| "No is yes, And we're all free"    | CO made a #2 no-no... PU!
| My views may not be shared by the organization of origin
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Aladdin
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 12:06:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.095307.8114@leland.Stanford.EDU> prufrock@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scot N Gibson) writes:

>Also, the animator who did Jafar is openly gay.  He also did Gaston
>from "Beauty and the Beast."  There's a good article on him in the
>latest _Advocate_.  Apparently, Disney is a fairly gay-positive
>company.  

Or at least they have plenty of queers working for them.  Didn't any
of you listen to Howard Ashman's lyrics to Gaston's Song?  For shame
...

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
From: mls@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (mike.siemon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: That dead horse
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:56:05 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <Bz44AE.3xq@ecf.toronto.edu> ambidge@ecf.toronto.edu (Chris Ambidge) writes:

>JEdgar Hoover was alive and leading public hysteria in the
>1910's?

More like the 20's -- the post WWI "Red Scare" -- but the point is
correct despite the minor dating mistake.
-- 
Michael L. Siemon		   "Oh, stand, stand at the window,
					As the tears scald and start;
mls@panix.com			   You shall love your crooked neighbor
(please note address)			With your crooked heart."
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.*
Date: 17 Dec 92 09:40:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Dec17.094029.18465
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1gpggnINNovf@alice.cs.purdue.edu> berninge@cs.purdue.edu (James Berninger) writes:
>I guess what I'm taking offense at is the use of the newsgroup as a
>tool of the "regulars" (dare I say "elite") -- there are quite a few
>messages I see posted that seem appropriate for a "chat" between
>them, and there's no real reason I should have to read these things.

So why do you read them?

Yes, I know, the real question is that you'd like to not have to wade
through all of the messages you don't want to read to read the ones
you do want. I have the same problem: there are plenty of messages on
motss I don't want to read. (My solution? Threaded newsreader is
mandatory.  Only seriously read motss on a local fast terminal, get
used to hitting "N" fast and "J" when I need to. No kill files.)

The trouble is, we *all* have the same problem, but the set of
articles each individual reader considers interesting is very peculiar
to the person reading.

If a split occurs, then it needs to split motss up along lines that a
large majority of motssers consider reasonable.

Look at other successful newsgroup splits. One particularly easy and
useful split has been the ".announce" or ".info" newsgroups, those
things whose only purpose is to post actual news about a specific
topic. People say rec.arts.startrek is good.  The rec.bicycles split
looked good, but I haven't read the new groups so I'm not sure.

Oh, and so I can fulfill James' expectations about what Motss Is
Really Like According to James,

Hi Jess, hope your back is feeling better!
Arnold, we miss you! Are you back on the net yet?
Haven't heard from you in awhile, Jeff - that man keeping you busy?
Snuggles, Robert.
You're still the mostest, Arne.
Anyone out there know of interesting computer summer internships for
  undergraduates? I want to do something different this year.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                                            Love under will
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ne.motss,soc.culture.african-american
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Ken Reeves, first black, openly gay mayor in the US
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:58:55 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.074356.2612@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
> [Reprinted without permission from the Cambridge Chronicle,
> Cambridge, Massachusetts, Thursday. December 10, 1992.]
> 
> Mayor Reeves reveals he's gay

[article deleted]

Thanks for posting this, Steve. There was a very brief article on
Reeves's coming out in this morning's _Boston Globe_, which was all I
knew.

Curiously, I was entirely unaware of this "open secret" until today.
(I'm not particularly plugged in to Cambridge gay politics.) I can't
wait till John gets back from DC to ask him if he knew Ken was gay.


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.* (was Re: new newsgroup proposal:talk.politics.motss)
Organization: insert anything here
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:52:06 GMT

twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>asente@adobe.com (A Usenet Pal) writes:

>>Many people seem to believe that crossposting is the root
>>of many of soc.motss's ills.

>I'm one of those, but if this suggestion

>>How about making soc.motss a moderated
>>newsgroup with an auto-moderator -- a program that takes submissions and
>>posts them all, but removes any cross-posting?  If someone posted something
>>to soc.motss and anything else, the auto-moderator would send out the article
>>twice -- once to soc.motss and once to all the other newsgroups.

>were ever to come to a vote, I would almost certainly vote against it.
>I have trouble seeing that a *flat* non-crossposting strategy like
>this one would be good news in the long run.

	Read it again - the posting still goes to all newsgroups,
just not cross-posted.

	Read it again - the posting still goes to all newsgroups,
just not cross-posted.

	I think it's a great idea -- and we could set up an
exception list, say soc.bi, any of the *.motss groups, etc.
But just getting rid of the talk.politics effluence would IMHO be
a GREAT step forward.

BBC
From: dh0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DONALD L. HARDY)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: weird trees
Date: 18 Dec 92 14:01:18 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

>>Aluminum Christmas trees...

Anybody know where I can get on of these babies for my Bad Fifties Rec Room?
Good condition with color wheel?   In eastern PA?

Donald
-- 

******************************************************************************

Donald L. Hardy                                    Office of Physical Planning
Project Planner                                    Lehigh University
dh0a@lehigh.edu                                    (215) 758 5110
Newsgroups: soc.motss