HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pdh@netcom.com (Phil Howard )
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Security Clearance
Date: 21 Jul 92 18:52:49 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

allyn@netcom.com (Mark Allyn) writes:

>You talk about serious debt. How serious do you think they will get
>itchy with? In my own case, I have about 2,500 in credit card debt with
>an income of 40,000. Is this something they will get antsy about??

I would doubt that.  It is a debt you could readily pay off in a few
months.  I would think what they are worried about is a major trend
to indebtedness which could make you susceptable to "outside influences".
-- 
/***********************************************************************\
| Phil Howard  ---  KA9WGN  ---  pdh@netcom.com   |   "The problem with |
| depending on government is that you cannot depend on it" - Tony Brown |
\***********************************************************************/
From: pdh@netcom.com (Phil Howard )
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Need suit and tie for a job interview ??
Date: 29 Jul 92 19:32:54 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

laws@ai.sri.com (Kenneth I. Laws) writes:

>> What a person wears to the interview is not an indication of what you should
>> expect them to wear on the job.

>Depends on the job.  For programming positions, I'd agree.  I'd also
>agree that poverty should not be a bar to employment, and I'd give
>a little consideration to techies fresh out of college who can't
>afford a suit just for one interview.  Still, a candidate not wearing
>a suit would raise questions in my mind that I would want to have
>answered.

If the culture were to already have shifted to one where the suit is not
necessary, then of course someone not wearing one to an inetrview would
not be raising any such questions in the first place.

THIS is where I'd like us to be: where things that should not matter
do not matter.


>I've worn suits long enough that I'm actually more comfortable in
>them (during interviews).  The jacket is great for handling thermal
>variations, and the pockets make a sort of portable desk.  (I used
>to take along a thin attache case, but I'm more comfortable now
>without it.)  A tie also seems to raise me to the same level of
>authority as my interviewer, though I can't explain why.  If you
>get the same boost from dressing informally, do it.

I think it is the case that some people just don't get a boost one way
or the other, based on the clothes they wear.  Others of course will
get that boost from something different, and this is the real source of
the problems; the interviewer does not have the ability to distinguish
between the good and the bad from among those that are different.


>Incidentally, anyone in doubt should ask the appointment secretary
>about proper interview dress.  He or she may actually be flattered
>to be included in your confidence.  Don't forget that such people
>are often asked what they think of the candidate, and can easily
>sway the decision.  (Sending a thank-you card to the secretary
>after your interview is recommended, especially for executive-level
>jobs.)  If you can't bring yourself to ask the secretary, I'm sure
>anyone in the personnel department -- or even a receptionist -- would
>be happy to tell you what most candidates wear.

If you are afraid to ask this question bluntly, you can try to ask it
in terms of first asking what the general dress code of the company
is for the people actually working there.  It would come across simply
as checking out the company, while giving the person you ask that same
boost of trust.  Then the question can migrate to the differences that
might exist for interviewing.
-- 
/***********************************************************************\
| Phil Howard  ---  KA9WGN  ---  pdh@netcom.com   |   "The problem with |
| depending on government is that you cannot depend on it" - Tony Brown |
\***********************************************************************/
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Security Clearance
Date: 22 Jul 92 03:22:00 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <2A6C3133.1B7B@deneva.sdd.trw.com> shrdlu@willow.sdd.trw.com (Lynda L. True) writes:
>In article <wgdms7m.allyn@netcom.com> allyn@netcom.com (Mark Allyn) writes:
>>You talk about serious debt. How serious do you think they will get
>>itchy with? In my own case, I have about 2,500 in credit card debt with
>>an income of 40,000. Is this something they will get antsy about??
>
>No, no, no....
>
>This is not serious debt. You aren't in bankruptcy, you're paying your
>payments (I assume), your balance isn't continuing to grow at an
>alarming rate. Everybody these days probably has more credit card
>debts than they should, but that isn't an unreasonable amount of debt.


In fact, isn't the *average* amount of credit card debt (among those
that carry a balance from one month to the next) about $2,400 ? 

I am sure I saw something to this effect in the paper recently.

I was amazed when I read this.
From: shashi@mercury.Corp.Sun.COM (Shashi Mahendru)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: How do you address?
Date: 29 Jul 1992 22:45:38 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mercury.corp.sun.com
Summary: DO  AS  ASKED   IN   THE   ADVT



In article <1992Jul16.212926.23226@auto-trol.com> mattel@auto-trol.com (Matt
Telles) writes:
>In article <BrHwuM.Eo6@news.cso.uiuc.edu> fischer@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (W. T.
Fischer) writes:
>>When you wish to respond to a job ad that does not include the name of a
person
>>it would be a good idea to call the company and ask for the name of the
person>>hiring.  They would respond more favorably to someone who took the
time to find
>>out who was hiring than they would to an anonymous letter.  
>>
>>Do not ever use "Dear Sir:" Use instead "Dear Mr. name" or "Dear Ms. Name"
>>



**DO EXACTLY AS THE JOB ADVT. ASKS U TO DO.**
If a name is give, use it. If not, the hiring manager has chosen *NOT* to
give out his name for a reason. Calling him/her up would be most annoying and
will probably get you negative points to begin with.
And yes, *DO* refer to the position you are applying for in your cover
letter.  The H/R folks look for the sightest reason/excuse to trash your
resume - it's not easy reading 500 resumes :>)
From: sjc@cs.purdue.EDU (Steve Chapin)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Pet Peeve "No E-mail"
Date: 23 Jul 92 05:33:32 GMT
	<1992Jul21.133111.11125@auto-trol.com>
	<1992Jul22.001926.9815@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University

}} In article <1992Jul22.001926.9815@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
}} 
}} No one I know who has e-mail access uses FAX to communicate with another
}} person who has e-mail access.
}}
}} [ text deleted ]
}}
}} Your the first person I've ever seen advocate FAX over e-mail, the only
}} advantage FAX has is that more people have fax access at the moment.

It is a sad, but true, fact that there are many more people out there
who use fax than who use email.  The reason is simple: it's a
comfortable paradigm.

Almost everyone in this country over the age of 5 knows how to dial a
phone.  Business people use phones all the time; to them, it is a
natural extension to use the phone to send documents.  No worrying
about addressing, editing, logging in, etc.  Just take what you've
got, make a phone call, and *>poof<*, there it is.

I find faxing incredibly wasteful, but that's because I'm a computer
user first.  I almost never pick up the phone and call someone I can
send e-mail to; I don't think that way.  Business people don't think
in terms of email.  I had an interesting time trying to explain email
to my mother, who is an office manager at a furntiure store.

FAXing is obvious if you're used to using the phone; email is obvious
if you're used to using a computer.  Two different paradigms, two
different ways of thinking.

sjc@cs.purdue.edu               Steve Chapin           Today's Grammar Lesson:
                The effect of his affected accent affected her,
                   and effected a change in her affections.

             If I don't want it in my back yard, I don't want it.
From: cwm@beta.lanl.gov (Christina W Mercier)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Curriculum Vitae
Date: 22 Jul 92 19:45:45 GMT
Distribution: misc.jobs.misc
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory

In article <1992Jul22.143815.1165@meaddata.com> stephen@meaddata.com (Stephen Bermick) writes:
>I would like some information on the differences betweeen a curriculum
>vitae and a resume.  What should a curriculum vitae contain?  What is a
>good length?  Is a resume acceptable in place of a curriculum vitae?
> 
>Any help would be appreciated.
>
The "International Employment Gazette" provides the following
description of a CV:

               Curriculum Vitae
A CV is usually 6-8 pages long.  A potential employer is looking for 
detailed information.  This is what sets a CV apart from a Resume.  A cover
letter (often hand-written when applying for European openings) should 
refer to the job by its name.  Include the date and your availability
and a couple of sentences about your background that would qualify you
for the job.  In the event that the job you are inquiring about is 
filled, request that your name be kept on file.
The opening of the CV itself, which should be typed, should contain a
photograph, contact information (address and phone), your career
objectives, professional qualifications, educational background,
language skills, citizenship, passport number, security clearances if
any, family status (those that will be traveling with you), personal
interests, birth dates, and geographical preferences if applicable. 
Then be sure to include specific dates of your employment, job description,
job title, skills for the job, compensation and professional accomplishments.
Note that references (often called referees by foreign employers) are
available upon request.
From: dkythe@ccscola.Columbia (Dave Kythe)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: PARAMAX SYSTEMS, Montreal Canada
Keywords: paramax systems montreal canada telecommunications analyst
Date: 21 Jul 92 20:33:39 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: NCR CCSD Columbia


Hi,

Does anyone know anything about PARAMAX SYSTEMS, located in Montreal,
Canada?  I am interested in information about what the company does, is it
a good place to work, who are its competitors, etc. 

They have a job called a "Telecommunications Analyst". What does that mean?
It requires a Computer Science background.

Please reply via email.
Thanx!

Dave Kythe
dkythe@ccscola.columbiasc.ncr.com

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: eamayne@eos.ncsu.edu (ELIZABETH ANNE MAYNE)
Subject: how can I find a job overseas?
Originator: eamayne@c00538-106ps.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: eamayne@eos.ncsu.edu (ELIZABETH ANNE MAYNE)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 23:15:09 GMT


I"m finishing up my M.S. in Industrial Engineering,
and would really like to go overseas to work.

I'm fluent in Italian, and would be very interested
in finding work in Italy.  I would also be interested in
other european or asian companies.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to
go about this?


Thanks.


Elizabeth
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: akkana@netcom.com (Akkana Peck)
Subject: Re: Where do old programmers go?
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 03:44:07 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Distribution: usa

>   I believe that you are correct:  old programmers who don't firmly
>   embed themselves in management either have to learn the latest
>   new tricks (X windows, MS-windows, OO, rpc, whatever's hot *NOW*)
>   or get a new life.  Literally.

Horrors -- God forbid that I should have to learn something new!
Better start working on my MBA right away ...

Seriously, I thought it was learning new tricks that made this job fun!
I try to make sure each new job I take gives me something new to learn,
otherwise I get bored and restless and want to move on.

Not that that has anything to do with age -- people of any age can be
good programmers.  But obviously there are a lot more people coming out
of school today computer literate than there were 30 years ago; 
as recently as ten years ago many schools didn't offer a CS degree!
Hardly surprising that there are more young programmers than old ones;
but I'm sure that will change in the next few decades.

	...Akkana (over a decade in the business -- am I washed up? :-)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy)
Subject: Re: Observations at software firms
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<1992Jul22.210440.15681@mv.mv.com>
	<1992Jul23.173339.23769@rsd0.rsd.dl.nec.com>
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 21:40:53 GMT


PLEASE stop crossposting this to misc.jobs.offered.

Thanks.
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: ruthless@panix.com (Ruth Ditucci)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: I do MAC work from my home
Keywords: mac,home work,mothers working at home,
Date: 21 Jul 92 04:18:20 GMT
Organization: Panix, NYC

I am posting this for a friend of mine but feel free to reply to me here at

ruthless@panix.com     or     ditucci@hawk.com


	Barbara is interested in doing MAC work from her home.  She can
	be reached at 718-886-0643.  

	Need graphic charts but don't have the time?  No problem....

	Just line draw what you need and she'll MAC it up for you and
fax it to you or you can make arrangements to pick up the disk as well.


	Remember:

		Barbara is:   Wordwise.....
From: lothie@syrinx.umd.edu (Lothie)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Just a leetle question
Date: 22 Jul 92 04:19:36 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

I just wanted to ask a question on resume.posting.etiquette.

Is it considered permissible to post my resume as often as 
once every two weeks? I desperately want a job and I was thinking
that just posting once might not be effective, but I don't want
to piss off the Powers That Be either.

Please email me; I don't read this group.

Thanks.

Lothie 

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: kristy@dssdev.enet.dec.com (Kristy S. Gleason (Woobie's Dial-A-Hug Service))
Subject: Re: Harrassing calls after posting resume
Reply-To: kristy@dssdev.enet.dec.com (Kristy S. Gleason (Woobie's Dial-A-Hug Service))
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: misc
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 15:47:25 GMT


I, too, received an obscene phone call... this morning at 6:45am, waking me up
out of a sound sleep, as well as being disturbed that there was some creep out
on the internet attempting to get his jollies by ringing up women who had posted
resumes.  

The man was foreign, although I cannot place the accent.  It appeared to be an
overseas phone call, as there was a slight delay and static hiss that is common
with overseas calls.

Whoever this guy is, he's a jerk and then some.  To the offending party, grow 
up, Bucko.
From: kevinf@castle.ed.ac.uk (K Findlay)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: European Employment
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:50:16 GMT
Distribution: misc.jobs.misc
Organization: Edinburgh University



Does anybody know of any newsgroups for European computer/ electronics/
research jobs in Europe (especially Germany). There appears 
to be one for the UK but not for the other countries.
Other computer sources of employment opportuinities also be welcome.
If you know of any, mail me at kevinf@ed.ee.ac.uk, or reply on the 
net as I'm sure other people will be interested.

              Thanks in advance,
                        Kevin Findlay
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: hnoble@polari.online.com
Subject: Re: Where do old programmers go?
Organization: Seattle Online Public Access Unix (206) 328-4944
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 02:30:38 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.140210.8254@compu.com> fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home) writes:
>hnoble@polari.online.com writes:
>
>>management that's hostile because of my age (yet), although I've had
>>a number of fights because of my radical politics and tendency to
>>organize unions.
>
>Unions? For programmers? Isn't that taking the art of programming down to the 
>level of steering a truck across the country? How any real programmer would 

You gotta be kidding if you think professional programmers become "mediocre"
by signing a contract guaranteeing decent hours, pay and training.  What
better way to protect the artistry of programmingda quality of work than
with a written contract?
>W. Fred Rump 	office:	   fred@COMPU.COM     'mans feet have grown/so big 
>26 Warren St.   home: fred@icdi10.compu.com  that he/forgets his littleness'
>Beverly, NJ. 08010                          		Don Marquis 
>609-386-6846    bang:uunet!cdin-1!icdi10!fr   


Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: bc751@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Howard Z. Shiau)
Subject: Lateral move advice needed
Reply-To: Anonymous
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 03:45:56 GMT


Hi,

I got promoted a few months ago to an assistant manager position
at Citibank.  However, I have just been informally offered another
position in a different department.  The other department works
in an area I would like to get into and actually offers me the
opportunity to get out of the current career area that I had been
on.  I like my current position and the people are great but I
would like to move into a different area/type of work.  The new position 
is at least a lateral move and may be a slight promotion.  I don't 
want to offend anyone in my current department but I feel like I
don't want to lose this opportunity either.  Anyone have any advice
on what I should do?


Confused
-- 
Howard Shiau                       bc751@cleveland.freenet.edu
Cosyde Corporation
From: helwig@epx.cis.umn.edu
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: No tie
Date: 29 Jul 92 22:06:06 GMT
Reply-To: helwig@epx.cis.umn.edu ()
Organization: University of Minnesota


OK, so what about those of us who cannot wear a tie. Should I tell
the interviewer outright, or just assume that if it matters, they will
ask? I have a condition (similar to claustrophobia) which prevents
me from wearing one. What do you think?
From: laws@ai.sri.com (Kenneth I. Laws)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Need suit and tie for a job interview ??
Date: 26 Jul 92 23:11:45 GMT
	<1992Jul22.072417.8392@news2.cis.umn.edu> <13fmcvk.pdh@netcom.com>
	<1992Jul23.040424.17461@news2.cis.umn.edu>
Organization: Computists International
In-reply-to: oleary@epx.cis.umn.edu's message of 23 Jul 92 04:04:24 GMT

> What a person wears to the interview is not an indication of what you should
> expect them to wear on the job.

Depends on the job.  For programming positions, I'd agree.  I'd also
agree that poverty should not be a bar to employment, and I'd give
a little consideration to techies fresh out of college who can't
afford a suit just for one interview.  Still, a candidate not wearing
a suit would raise questions in my mind that I would want to have
answered.

All of this discussion about two otherwise-equal candidates is too
artificial.  A hiring decision depends strongly on the nature of
the job, the supervisor, the history of personality clashes in
this slot, the technical requirements, the way the candidate carries
himself/herself, etc.  If technical skills were my only need, I
wouldn't give a second though to attire -- one way or the other.
If I wanted a "mushroom programmer" or flunky, I might look for
a suit as one sign of subservience and naivete.  If I wanted someone
with management potential, I might look for a suit as a sign of
aspiration and savvy.  As important as the suit is how comfortably
a person wears it.  (Posture, fidgiting, etc., are equally important.)
A new suit also conveys a different impression from an old, comfortable
one.  The width of a tie can indicate whether someone follows fashion
or identifies with the bygone culture of his graduating class.

I've worn suits long enough that I'm actually more comfortable in
them (during interviews).  The jacket is great for handling thermal
variations, and the pockets make a sort of portable desk.  (I used
to take along a thin attache case, but I'm more comfortable now
without it.)  A tie also seems to raise me to the same level of
authority as my interviewer, though I can't explain why.  If you
get the same boost from dressing informally, do it.

Incidentally, anyone in doubt should ask the appointment secretary
about proper interview dress.  He or she may actually be flattered
to be included in your confidence.  Don't forget that such people
are often asked what they think of the candidate, and can easily
sway the decision.  (Sending a thank-you card to the secretary
after your interview is recommended, especially for executive-level
jobs.)  If you can't bring yourself to ask the secretary, I'm sure
anyone in the personnel department -- or even a receptionist -- would
be happy to tell you what most candidates wear.

					-- Ken

--

Dr. Kenneth I. Laws, (415) 493-7390, laws@ai.sri.com.
Moderator of the Computists International AI/IS/CS mutual-aid association.
Ask about my weekly online career newsletter, The Computists' Communique.
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: salem@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Bruce Salem)
Subject: Re: Pet Peeve "No E-mail" Was (Re: Software Engineers - Applications Programming (MA/AZ) CIS (Recruiter))
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: 23 Jul 92 04:18:44 GMT

mrose@kali.stsci.edu (Mike Rose) writes:

>On 18 Jul 92 09:29:38 GMT, lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard) said:

>>In article <BrJJ11.4K5@world.std.com> cisml@world.std.com (Marty Lebowitz) writes:
>>>	Fax or mail resume (please, no email) referencing job#, to:

>>Why do you insist that I wait until a place with a fax machine opens, walk
>>15 minutes and pay $3 to fax you my resume, or send it via snail mail?
>>Do you honestly find e-mail that hard to use? If so how in the world
>>did you learn to post to news?

>Did you notice that the resumes are going to someone other than the
>original poster?  Do you care?  And is putting a stamp on an envelope
>really that much trouble?  

	Now, wait, isn't this technology about saving trees and being
able to respond quickly and timely? And what do you have to offer that
doesn't deserve response in kind, stream of bits? Nothing lost, just
little bunches of electrons that travel at the speed of light?

>When I post openings, I accepts email resumes because I want to make
>it as easy as possible for anyone to send me a resume.  But it's
>whiners like this that tempt me to put "no email" so that I won't get
>their resumes.

	Woa, boy, on a little power trip, are we? Just you wait when the
tables are turned and their is a glut of recruiters and a shortage of
skilled people. You will wish you got that resume first and it won't
matter if you get it in smoke singnals. Just refuse e-mail and I won't
bother with you. I don't need the turnarond. I have already gotten more
exposure by sending only e-mail than I would have by spending several
hundred dollars in faxes, printed resumes, and stamps. And you will
retype that resume if it is in your interest and mine.

>Mike
>--
>Mike Rose, mrose@stsci.edu, 410-338-4949

Bruce Salem

Xref: sparky misc.jobs.misc:5402 misc.jobs.offered:9194
From: hashton@twics.co.jp (HUGH ASHTON)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,misc.jobs.offered
Subject: TRANSLATION (ENGLISH->EUROPEAN LANGUAGES)
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:47:12 GMT
Organization: TWICS, Tokyo, Japan

Thanks to all who replied to the invitation to contact us regarding
translation.  We're still sifting through the replies, and we'll
get back to people individually in the near future.  Please bear with
us until then...  Thanks.

For anyone who missed the original post, we're a documentation
company looking for translators (English->European languages)
for user documentation for consumer items.  We're still looking.

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc