From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: Death of Canada (Was: Death of America)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 01:23:13 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.234214.16790@news.columbia.edu> gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
>cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>>gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
>>>The former hidden wholesale tax was in the area of 13% ...
>>
>>and as i explained a number of times, it was on a very small number
>>of items and has NOTHING to do with taxing services, a fresh new
>>tax that was put in to ride on the old so people would be fooled.
>
>No, it was quite extensive.  13% on everything that was manufactured.
>That's a fairly long list.  It's name was the Manufacturer's Tax ...
>not too hard to parse the meaning there, I'd say.

much easier, i'd say, than getting you to admit that replacing a 
"manufacturer's" tax with a goods AND SERVICES tax and claiming that
one is equivalent to the other is an outright lie.

you also still have not told me how we can "write down the deficit"
(fallacy alert) with the funds raised from the GST if the GST
is just a replacement for an existing tax.

>Now, it's 7.5% up front

it's 7%, i said that once already...

>instead of behind, leading to a more honest sticker price ...

rationalization #423,123.
you're right. the retailers were just ecstatic when the GST was introduced...

>That's enough to spur the private sector to greater efficiency (a good

are you serious? c'mon, give us more credit than that. you're running
out of straws to grasp.

>thing, if you are aware of the number of intermediate distributors
>that exist up north).  Look, I'd rather have neither tax but there's
>all the momentum from past debt that we have to start from ...  in the
>real world, they've discovered that you can't change overnight ...

you sound exactly like every politician i have ever heard in my life
who has said "i'll cut the deficit if you elect me" BEFORE the election
and then AFTER the election said "well, we have these existing programs,
umm, we can't cut them all at once.. gotta do this gradually... people
are hurting out there..."

one more thing too.
the MST was 13% AT THE WHOLESALE LEVEL. and since wholesale prices are about
50% to 65% of retail prices on most goods, that means the 13% was
really equivalent to somewhere around a 6% to 8% tax.
and another thing. the MST was also
applied only to items manufactured in canada, not those imported.
changing that made a lot of sense, from the standpoint of fairness
to canadian industry, but don't be fooled into thinking the MST was
applied to everything that was manufactured.
2 more important details conveniently omitted.

overall, i'd say the GST is a bigger tax than the MST was, even
looking just at the "goods" side of the equation. and the "services"
side was a blatant add-on tax which had *nothing* to do with the MST.


* * * * * 


i'll try to steer this back on course. this discussion started
out by me claiming, in response to a post titled "Death of America"
that i left canada because i hoped to find things better down here.
i then said that things are getting bad down here, but they are
much worse up in canada.

so i tell you what. keep your precious universal health care.
but recognize the incredible price you are paying for living in a
socialist country.

so far i have discussed the following:
the enormous debt and deficit problem up there (much worse than in the US),
the outrageously high taxes,
the lack of *reasonable* tax incentives,
the high interest rates,
the lack of stable long-term mortgages for home buyers,
the government propaganda and anti-american brainwashing,
the socialized medicine,
the politicians who are passing labor laws left right and center,
the destruction of the manufacturing base,
the increase in crime,
the high cost of just about *everything*,
the decrease in the value of the dollar,
and the "robin hood"-like transfer of funds from province to province,
to name a few.

i haven't even gotten to such gems as the possible imminent withdrawal
of quebec from the dominion, reason enough to leave for many people,
particularly the right-less anglophones living in quebec.

you have countered by defending the health care
system admirably and claiming that you like canada because you value
your quality of life and you don't have to drive through the south
bronx. is that it? do you really think it is worth it?

well, it may be: if you are a consumer, it is. if you are a producer, it is not.

i am sure you have already made up your mind. i just want the americans
who think that canada is something it is not to realize what is really going on
up there. and more than that, i want people down here to wake up and realize
where this country is headed if we keep up with the socialist programs
and fiscal irresponsibility. canada is just a few steps ahead on the road
to oblivion.

--
charles
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:64283 alt.drugs:19732 sci.econ:9396