From: Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Character Development
Date: 26 Sep 92 06:00:14 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

adray@Chaos.mcs.kent.edu (Adam Dray) writes:

> In article <249@mindlink.bc.ca>, Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow)
> writes:
>
>+ What if development points are de-emphasized?  Then there would be no reason
>+ to do anything other than role-play; there would be no rewards for character
>+ action other than what makes the character happy.  Gaining a level or
>+ improving a skill, usually makes the _player_ happy; the character isn't
>+ supposed to be aware of it.
>
> There's something screwy with that logic.  It's possible to get through an
> adventure without doing much role-playing.  You see it every day.

I think we're on two different wavelengths here.  I was trying to say that if
the importance of development points--even character skill and attribute
levels--were de-emphasized, then players could simply role-play situations,
without any ulterior motives.  In AD&D, the goal is to increase the numbers on
the character sheet: to increase levels and attributes and magic items.
Role-playing frequently goes against the nature of the game.  In other game
systems, increasing the numbers on the character sheet is a non-issue most of
the time; it is not a factor in the player's decisions.

Yes, you can get through a roll-playing adventure without role-playing, but
this thread is about role-playing games.  Role-playing is not talking in a
different voice, or using gestures, or quoting poetry; it is interacting in the
game universe from the character's perspectives and using the character's
abilities.  This usually means using skills and knowledge that the player
doesn't have, and limiting the character's decisions to the knowledge the
character has (ie. pretending you don't know that another PC has just been
attacked in the next room).

> It's pretty difficult to get through a game without using one skill or
> another.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with this statement.  Using a
skill is role-playing--if it is done from the character's desires.  If you use
your combat skills by attacking some orcs off in the forest, with the goal of
gaining XPs, it's not role-playing, it's  war-gaming, or strategic gaming, or
whatever.  Tacking on a hollow justification, such as "Bob the Bold's parents
were killed by orcs, so he kills orcs whenever he can" does not make it
role-playing, since you know, and the GM and the other players know, that your
real goal is to gain XPs.

> I never said to de-emphasize rewards for using attributes and skills. I
> stated that role-playing should be rewarded, as well as actions.

I agree that actions should be rewarded.  If Fred the salesman comes up with a
great ad campaign, and implements it well, he should get lots of sales, and be
rewarded by commissions and favourable attention from his boss.

If you're saying that Fred should be rewarded by increases to his Salesman
skill, then that is what this debate is about.  I'm saying that you do not need
blatant character sheet rewards in order to have a fun game.  Fred's Salesman
skill will increase over time, as the GM and player notes the amount of time
and effort that Fred has spent on that aspect of his life.

I find emphasis on character abilities and rewards such as XPs for actions to
be "instant gratification", like candy.  As with candy, it tastes great at
first, but you can quickly get sick of it, and desire something with more
substance.

I'm not saying that this style is "the one true way" to play; it isn't.  I am
saying that rewarding actions with skill increases is not "the one true way"
either; it is one way, and if you are designing an rpg, you shouldn't
automatically assume that you have to provide those "instant gratification"
rewards.  Playing with de-emphasized skill levels and skill development is a
valid gaming style, and one you might consider trying if you're not satisfied
with your present style of gaming.

--

Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca