HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: u1705@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Southiere Alain)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: japanese vs N.A. cars
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:12:38 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Universite de Montreal

In article <1992Apr14.202642.11094@geovision.gvc.com> barry@geovision.gvc.com (Barry Comer) writes:
>I posted a message on Sunday in which I reported the results of buying
>a new car.  I mentioned that the N.A. car makers were outdated.  What I
>meant to say was that after looking at the N.A. cars I was generally
>unimpressed with the overal design.  I feel that they have not changed the
>cas very much from when I used to work on them.  They have the same look and
>feel of the early eighties.  I am impressed with the new line of engines
>that they are producing, enen though most of them have been designed by
>other people(i.e. Yamaha designed one of Ford's new V6s).  Anyways that is
>about it for now.

   Where did you look for cares ? At a used car dealer or what ? There's only
few american cars that have the look they had in the early '80. Most of them
are chrysler big cars (Neew-Yorker, Imperial...).

   I would say that american manufacturers gos far beyong japanese when it
comes to the LOOK of the car. Take Pontaic for example. The Grand Am, Grand
Prix, Bonneville, Corvette are certainly not early '80 design. Same for a
great deal of Olds (but the for the interior, it's another thing... Especially
the instrument panel). Take a look at ford Taurus, T-Bird, Lincoln
Continental... I could go on and on.

   Ok, it's true that there are a few old designs left, but they are slowly
disapearing.

   Speaking of ealy '80 designs, many European cars stills looks as they did
10 or more yeears ago... 240 Series by Volvo, Saab 900, Some Mercedes,
Volks, etc. Keeping an old desing is not a fault if the design is good.

   As for engines, it's true that American manufacturers had some help from
otheer people, but moslty with very specialed engines (Taurus SHO, Corvette
ZR1). But the soon-to-come Ford modular engines are their own design. Same
for Chrysler 2.2 turbo III. I also heard that Chrysler is also designing a
new V6... As for GM, the engines in their cars (real GM cars, I mean) are
real NA engines... Except for the head of the ZR1 engine.

-- 
u1705@jsp.umontreal.ca                           | If you want to make an apple
                   _                             | pie from scratch, you have
 /\  |  _  .  _   (_   _      _|_ |_  .  _  _  _ | to create the universe.
/--\ | (_| | | |   _) (_) |_|  |_ | | | (= |  (= |                - Carl Sagan
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: Peter A. Cohen <peterco@eff.org>
Subject: Re: SVO Mustang
Organization: ON Technology, Inc.
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1a2
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1992 20:08:36 GMT

In article  danny, danny@vega.iii.com writes:

>I am interested in the reliablity of the Ford 2.3L Turbo.
>Seems like one can found a good copy for under $4k.

I'm not sure which one you're talking about.  SVO Mustangs did make use
of a 2.3 liter turbocharged engine, but not all 2.3 liter turbos are
SVO's.  The first couple of years of third-generation Mustangs (79 and
80) offered a 2.3 liter turbocharged engine.  Don't buy it.  The engines
were very finicky and nervous, and the turbocharger had some horrible lag
problems (the turbo boost would kick in about the same time that you were
stepping on the brake).

If it _is_ and SVO (single large, square headlamps- later models flush,
round, function hoodscoop, five-bolt alloys rims, and the words "SVO"
painted on the side), and the owner only wants $4K, and there's no frame
damage, grab the s.o.b....if it's in good shape, you can sell it back for
a tidy profit ASAP.  Hold onto it for twenty years, and you can make a
bundle.

- Peter
Xref: sparky rec.autos:10793 rec.autos.tech:5478
From: srivatsa@karna.Eng.Sun.COM (Chakra Srivatsa)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
Subject: Re: Electrical problems with Dodge Caravan?
Date: 6 Apr 92 18:20:58 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: karna

In article <1992Apr3.174607.29980@u.washington.edu> davidj@u.washington.edu writes:
>I have a 1988 Dodge Caravan with a 6 cylinder engine and a three speed
>automatic transmission. About one year ago, it began to have an intermittent
>problem that has recently increased in frequency. While driving, the engine
>suddenly dies as if it has just been turned off. It easily restarts when the
>car is put into neutral and then runs well. This problem seems to occur most
>frequently after applying the brakes suddenly, but it can happen when
>cruising smoothly (no sudden acceleration or deceleration). There is no

Me too!  A different car - '84 Chevy Cavalier.  I braked suddenly to avoid
one of these night-time critters on the road and the engine died.  All the
idiot lights came on: check engine, oil etc.  A power reset fixed the problem.
I didn't realise that the engine had died until I slowed down considerably.

Good thing I wasn't on the freeway...

--
The one l lama, he's a priest. 		srivatsa@eng.sun.com
The two l llama, he's a beast.
And I will bet a silk pajama, 
there isn't a three l lama!		says Ogden Nash
From: lharris@hubcap.clemson.edu (Larry Harris)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: <<< Mustang Powered Miata >>>
Date: 11 Apr 92 03:45:08 GMT
Organization: Clemson University

kevin@taronga.taronga.com (Kevin Brown) writes:

>In article <1992Apr9.191325.20822@hubcap.clemson.edu> lharris@hubcap.clemson.edu (Larry Harris) writes:
>>The Mustang also leaves plenty of room for the shade
>>tree mechanic to make his own improvements, something those sealed
>>engine Japanese cars don't offer (I'm not really critisizing them for
>>it, though).

>This is one of the most important (to me) aspects of the Mustang.  The
>engine in it has been around for almost 30 years.  There are *lots*
>of aftermarket products for it, and it's real easy for someone with
>a relatively small budget to get incredible performance out of the
>Mustang.
30 years exactly if I'm not mistaken!

>And it's what has me more worried than anything else about the
>next-generation Mustang.  As I understand it, they're planning on
>putting in their "modular" V-8.  DOHC.  A completely different
>design.  No real aftermarket for it, and I suspect there won't be
>for some time.  Oh, it'll be an excellent engine in all likelihood.
>But Ford got most of the basics right some 30 years ago with the
>221 (which begat the 260, which begat the 289, which begat the
>302 :-) ).

I am very excited about the new Mustang.  I would very much like to buy
a '94 or '95 Mustang SVO convertible when it comes out, but I will still
keep my '86.  The '95 will become my daily driver, while I'd like to hot
rod the '86 with GT-40 parts and maybe a Vortech Supercharger, G-Load
suspenson, etc...  It will be my tinkering car.  I figure that with a
300 hp modular, being a daily driver, I'd probably leave it alone.  Of
course I always need something to twiddle my wrenches on!

>But worse than that: will they continue to manufacture the 302?  It's
>such a good little engine that I'd hate to see them stop production
>of it.  I don't want the aftermarket for the Ford smallblock V-8 to
>die for a LOOOONG time.

From what I understang, Ford wants to keep making the Windsor as long as
they can.  They'll probably use it as the basic truck workhorse motor.
I would expect to be able to walk into your local Ford dealer in 1995+
and order a basic F-150 with a 302/351.  I think the aftermarket for
this motor will be around for a long time, just look how many of them
there are around.  Jeez, my father was disappointed to see the market
for Flathead parts disolve!

>		Kevin Brown (kevin@taronga.taronga.com)

-- 
-Larry Harris-                |  '86 Mustang lx 5.0 notchback
lharris@hubcap.clemson.edu    |  Meyer's Tow'd Dune Buggy
lharris@clemson.bitnet        |  OS-9, a leaner meaner UNIX
Clemson Computer Engineering  |  RUSH, YES, R.E.M, The Who
From: aggie@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Brian Wertz)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 22:28:15 GMT
Subject: Re: Gas mileage for an '88 Daytona ES Turbo
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID
Newsgroups: rec.autos


  I've had two Daytonas: the first being an '85 with just the turbo 2.2L,
and the second being an '89 with the intercooled turbo 2.2L.

  Both cars averaged approximately 22 MPG in the city and 33-35 MPG on the
highway.  Both have averaged over 37 MPG, a couple times, for a 1500 mi. trip.



  Brian Wertz       aggie@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
From: cherkaue@ee.rochester.edu (Brian Cherkauer)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Engine Braking - what causes it?
Date: 13 Apr 92 14:20:01 GMT
Organization: Univ of Rochester, College of Engineering and Applied Science

In article <1992Apr9.162446.15516@berlioz.nsc.com> alan@lancaster.nsc.com (The Hepburn) writes:
>In article <1992Apr8.110956@yogi.axion.bt.co.uk>, phil@yogi.axion.bt.co.uk (Phil DNM44) writes:
>> 
>> Ever tried turning a petrol or diesel engine by hand?? compression strokes are hard work!!
>
>Let's go through this slowly.  What happens during the compression stroke?  Last I
>checked all valves were closed and the piston was rising up in the cylinder compressing
>the air-fuel charge in said cylinder.  Now tell me,  what is the difference between
>the compression stroke during acceleration and decceleration?  In both cases all the
>valves are closed and the piston is rising in the cylinder.  IT IS NOT THE COMPRESSION
>STROKE THAT CAUSES ENGINE BRAKING!

Interesting point.  However, one could refute that argument by saying that the
loss of energy in the compression stroke is compensated by a release of energy
from the burning of fuel during the power stroke, and when you are releasing 
more energy from burning the fuel than you are expending compressing the charge,
you are accelerating, and vice versa. 

Something I'd like to point out is that most of the energy expended to compress
the air during the compression stroke is returned to the piston during the power
stroke.  Think of the air as a spring attached from the top of the piston to the
top of the cylinder.  The piston expends energy to compress the spring, but then 
the sping releases that energy back to the piston by pushing it down during the 
power stroke.  Energy losses would come from compression heating and friction.
I would venture to say that heating loss would be negligible, or we'd be using 
air instead of freon in refrigeration systems.  You're simply not giving up that 
much energy in the compression and re-expansion of air within the cylinder.

The throttle explanation, on the other hand, sounds very plausible.  Pulling air
past a closed throttle expends energy which is not returned to the system, 
therefore could explain a rapid deceleration.  My question is this (and if it's
been answered already and I missed it, could someone just e-mail me the answer):
Why don't (big) diesel engines have the same sort of throttle arangement as gas
engines?

-Brian
  cherkaue@ee.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: lethin@raisin-scone.ai.mit.edu (Richard A. Lethin)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Sigh.  My nifty new car ain't so nifty after all
Date: 15 Apr 92 20:03:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: life.23378
Distribution: na
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab

My father just got a new car (an Infinity G20; their low end model, and
VERY nice) and he gave me his 1985 Mazda 626.  It has 110,000 miles on it.
The body is in good condition, and I had a mechanic look at the "other
stuff" and he estimated that it would take about $800 to bring it up to
snuff (new clutch, valve gasket leaking oil, fuel pump, brakes, timing
chain).  My old Mitsubishi was developing relatively severe rust problems,
needed new tires, and the clutch was going (but the engine ran nicely).  I
sold it ($950) and applied the dough to the Mazda.  The fixing-up actually
ran to $1350; the gas tank was replaced to fix a fuel leak, a carbarator
problem was fixed, and I replaced the crummy original battery with a
Die-Hard.

So, sigh, I was really bummed when a few days after getting it back, I
noticed a white-smoke problem, with these characteristics:

1) When the car is started after sitting idle for a day or so.
2) For about 30 seconds, a white acrid cloud of smoke rises out of the
exhaust pipe.
3) Then, after the car warms up, it goes away.

It sounds, to me, like either a head gasket, a cracked head, or a cracked
block, with antifreeze slowly leaking in and accumulating.  Since I've only
owned the car for about 3 weeks, I can't say how often the antifreeze was
changed or the oil was changed. 

So, my question is:

1) I've heard about engines getting totally ruined because they are driven
with head gasket problems.  Do you think that this is something that should
be looked-at immediately?

2) Does the fact that it only smokes after sitting idle for a long time
indicate more that it's a block, eg, that antifreeze in the lower part of
the engine is leaking in to the cylinders?  Or could a simple head-gasket
leak cause this symptom.

3) Is it likely that replacing the valve gasket precipitated the head
gasket problem, ie, that the mechanic screwed up?

4) Is there any way that I should attempt fixing something like this
myself?

5) If I do bring it to the garage, are these guys going to be able to
diagnose the problem suffiently well?

In retrospect, I probably should have stuck with my Mitsubishi.  Or, should
have driven the Mazda for a few weeks to get familiar with its quirks.  And
probably should have sold both and bought something of more recent vintage.

So, any advice that people might have would be appreciated!
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: johnson@wrs.com (David Johnson)
Subject: Re: Stuff...
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 22:33:37 GMT

johnson@wrs.com (David Johnson) writes:

>Paul, I'm glad that you explained your thoughts for me. Since a considerable
>amount of the original article was missing i couldn't quite see what you were
>trying to get across. When i read my E-mail today someone informed me that i
>must have a comprehension problem. I don't think that the article could stand
>alone without further info as to what was trying to be accomplished. 

>I see this a lot on the net. People trying to cut and past articles so that
>followers don't have to wade through them again, and that's fine. But if the
>message of the article is lost in the process, then what's the point?  

>Anyway, Thanx for posting a follow-up instead of trying to attack my
>intelligence and fueling the ongoing flame-wars.

IN addition, i must apoligize for my ignorance in thinking that the chevette
was a FRONT drive car, although i surely know that the 210 is a rear. 

I have since read the original article (under a)ll) to ascertain were your 
veiw came into play, and i agree.

Furthermore, I wholeheartedly agree that handling is more driver than car.

Thanx,

>>DAVE____________________MAY THE G-FORCE BE WITH YOU!_______johnson@yuba.WRS.COM


Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: kevin@taronga.taronga.com (Kevin Brown)
Subject: Re: New guy asks about group etiquette, and two cars
Reply-To: kevin@taronga.taronga.com (Kevin Brown)
Organization: Minimal.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 01:48:14 GMT

In article <15381@drutx.ATT.COM> brucer@drutx.ATT.COM (RobinsonB) writes:
>I just bought a 1971 240Z; engine runs well, new clutch,
>transmission is as yet an unknown quantity.
>Engine staggers a lot when cold, but I think that
>might be in the carbs, for which I just bought rebuild kits.

I think it's in the carbs, too, but I don't know that a rebuild is
going to help you any.  It didn't help me.  You have dual Hitachi
SU carbs, right?

These things have manual chokes on them, and apparently you *have* to use
them in order to get the engine to run well when it's cold (and even that
might not be sufficient).

At least you got the pre-emissions version...

>The body is in excellent shape.  The vehicle has a bunch
>of minor problems other than that, but nothing a wad of
>cash and time won't cure.  I gave the guy at "Smooth Motors"
>(can you believe it?) in Boulder $1800 and a 1981 Rabbit diesel
>for it.

That seems a bit excessive, but it's hard for me to say (don't know
how much a 1981 Rabbit diesel is worth).  I've got a '73 240Z and
paid $2500 for it, but that was 5 years ago or so.  Spent a decent
amount of money getting the suspension back in decent shape.

[Description of Volvo deleted, since I can't say anything about it
except that their reputation is that they're built like tanks when
it comes to crashes]


		Kevin Brown (kevin@taronga.taronga.com)

Hope you like working on cars.  One thing I like about the 240Z is that
it's relatively easy to work on.
From: anlst2@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Arthur N. Lilley)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: S-10 Problems?
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:00:35 GMT
Distribution: all
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


I've been looking at used trucks here, and the nicest one I've found is a '91
Chevy S-10.  It has an extended cab and a V-6.  Has anyone had any major       
problems with an S-10?  I've looked at practically all the different brands
of mini-trucks and this one seems to be the best deal, so I guess that unless
I hear a few real horror stories, this will be the one.  Anybody have any 
suggestions?

                                                             Thanks,
                                                               Art
From: jimj@cleanplate.EBay.Sun.COM (James D. Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Need feedback on Integra RS, Saturn SL2, Escort LXE/Tracer
Date: 10 Apr 92 15:18:31 GMT
Reply-To: jimj@cleanplate.EBay.Sun.COM (James D. Jones)
Distribution: na
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: cleanplate.ebay.sun.com

When my income tax refund check arrives, I need to start a serious car
search.  I need a car for under $12K (the more under the better) that
handles very well and holds the road, provides reasonable comfort, has
good passing power up long grades, and is at least somewhat economical in
fuel.  Reliability is nice, too.

Mind you, this is just for the daily commute, and I'm a fairly mild driver.  But
my daily commute includes the never-popular Highway 17 over the Santa
Cruz mountains, a four-lane expressway that climbs 1800 feet in eight miles,
and has plenty of tight reverse-camber turns.  Screaming BMWs dominate the
left lane.  35-mph gravel trucks rule the right lane.  I exaggerate a
little, but not much.  For any freeway commute, I'd just get an $8k econobox,
but not on _this_ road.

My preliminary picks so far, mostly from reading, are the Integra RS, the
Escort LXE, and the Saturn SL2(which I've actually driven on 17).     
Some questions:

1.  The Integra's obviously the class act.  I've visited the lot but haven't
had my test drive yet.  From the reviews, I already assume that this is the
superior car for  my needs.  (Feel free to correct me.)  But will 
Acura dealers cut a good deal these days?  It lists at about 12.5-13k, stripped 
(which is how I'd take it) but the dealer cost is about 10.5k.  
Acura dealers used to demand list price.  Will they deal these days?

2.  The Saturn SL2's okay, but I wasn't quite sure about the handling.  It
seems to have a tendency towards top-roll.  What are other peoples'
experiences with Saturn handling on twisty roads at good speed?

3.  I wasn't even considering the Escort, but I read an excellent review of`
the LXE in that "Edmund's 20 Best Cars for 1992."  The specs look good.
Does anyone have experience with it? Do you like it?  How's the
reliability been?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Jim Jones
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Insurance recommendations and "Admitted" insurance companies
Date: 9 Apr 92 15:32:28 GMT
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies

In article <11765@sail.LABS.TEK.COM> vinay@sail.LABS.TEK.COM (Vinay Sathe) writes:
*In article <2991@eastman.UUCP> commisso@kodak.com (Susanne Commisso) writes:
*>A strong recommendation on insurance companies not to deal with:

*>	NATIONWIDE!!!!!

*>I have had nothing but trouble with them.  You pay, pay , pay and

*	Funny! I had enquired about Nationwide a few weeks ago
*	on the net. All 5 responses I got were positive. I don't 
*	have any personal experience with them, though. 

i learned some years back about nationwide by watching a friend
try and collect on his injured 1971 Datsun 240z; he spent the
money for special insurance, since his car was in immaculate,
orginal condition, and when he was forced into a guardrail by
a hat-wearer, nationwide tried to blow him off and total his car
out.

he did not have a pleasant experience with Nationwide; i do not
recommend insuring classics and potential classics with them.

cheers,
  richard
-- 
richard welty                            518-393-7228
welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Dealer Prices for 92 Accord EX
From: julien@skcla.monsanto.com
Date: 9 Apr 92 08:12:51 GMT
Organization: Searle, Skokie, IL
Nntp-Posting-User: damate

In article <92097.151126IADLRC@ASUACAD.BITNET>, IADLRC@ASUACAD.BITNET writes:
> I saw a posting a while back which had the dealer and MSRP prices for
> 1992 Honda Accord Models.  Could some helpful person out there in Netland
> forward me the prices for an Accord EX 4-dr model?  Your help  is greatly
> appreciated!
> Larry Carlson


EX 4-DOOR (5-speed manual)       DEALER $15325.00   MSRP $18245.00
EX 4-DOOR (4-speed automatic)    DEALER $15955.00   MSRP $18995.00
From: bphdarcy@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (SJ Roc D'Arcy, MBP)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Japanese auto industry
Date: 10 Apr 92 13:10:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <2990@cvbnetPrime.COM>, mlogan@thurman.prime.com (Max Logan) writes...
>About a month ago, I asked this newsgroup if the Japanese and German
>auto industries have labor unions as they do in the US and Canada.
>Not one person offered a response.  Does this mean that we don't
>know?  It seems to me that we shouldn't bash something that we don't
>understand.


Japan has none of the laws the US does as far as unions and giving them
extra rights.  Its the main reason Japan likes to keep as much of its
business as possible at home.  When it comes down to it they pay their
labor slightly more (on a ration COL scale).  

Germany has some labor protection, but no where near the amount of
BS we have here (which hurts the worker just as much as the owners).

The Democrats in congress are trying to push through a bill that prevents
companies (such as Catapillar) from firing striking workers.  Can't say
I've seen a stupider law (or one more unconsitutional) in a while.  Combine
that with a Mexico free trade agreement and zowie, watch how fast 
Catipillar moves to Mexico for labor.  UAW is bad for the workers (I'm an
ex-UAW member) and owners.  Its especially bad for those of us who get 
union cost passed on to us in our cars.

SJRD