HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Term limits for barons
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 18:36:54 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

Greetings from Arval!

Three postings on the question of baronial term limits caught my eye.

Angharad wrote:

> On the other hand, in most baronies in most of the Known World, my under-
> standing is that what usually happens is that the outgoing coronets make
> a recommendation, the crown reviews it, and unless the crown has strong
> reason to think it's a disaster, the crown does it.

Alan Fairfax wrote:

> While I have heard that those in the distant kingdoms that sprung from
> Atenveldt regularly change barons, in the Middle (and, it appears, the
> East), individual barons and baronesses are an important part of the life
> of the barony.

Dawyd wrote: 

> In several cases that I have seen, there have been massive power plays
> and knock down drag outs in groups that were changing Barons/
> Baronesses...  We would be trading a system that, at least, is one that
> is stable and harmless for one that would encourage political fights, and
> destabalize groups.

All three of you are generalizing based on local experience.  Angharad: In
some parts of the SCA (the East, for example), the new baron/ess is elected
by the populace, and it is unheard of for the Crown to refuse to accept the
results of that election.  In other parts, the Crown accepts nominations
from anyone and then chooses a replacement.  In still other kingdoms, the
Crown acts of its own choice, without paying any attention to local
opinion.  Alan: Are you sure that the baron/esses are so important in _all_
Midrealm baronies?  There are certainly parts of the SCA where baron/esses
play very little role in the SCA lives of their subjects.  Dawyd: The
vice-regency in Ostgardr may be "stable and harmless", but that it far from
characteristic of all baron/esses.  Many have been actively damaging to the
group, engaging in the worst sort of personal politics and abuses of power.

The hardest thing about this issue, like so many that come before the
Board, is looking beyond your local experiences to evaluate the SCA as a
whole.  Indeed, it is enormously difficult even to identify the assumption
you make based on your experience.  This point is the center of my essay on
the question of term limits: The nature of landed baroncy varies so widely
across the Society that it is impossible to write one set of regulations
which will be suitable everywhere.  The Board could reasonably choose to
set broad guidelines for the process of removing & replacing baron/esses,
but should leave enough leeway so that the kingdoms & baronies can
experiment with a very wide range of alternatives.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: Ken Stuart  <kps1@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Linen and wool
Nntp-Posting-User: kps1@cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d1
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:42:26 GMT

In article <BvFqx9.6Fq@agora.rain.com> Roadster Racewerks,
trifid@agora.rain.com writes:
>I hear a lot in the SCA about wool...how thick, how finely spun and
cotton
>(how rare, how little used) and even silk, yet I hear little about
linen. Yet
>Ireland and the Low Countries were famous for fine linen, and in fact a
lot of
>modern cotton products are a careful attempt to reproduce the expensive
linen
>of period. 

A few reasons for this disparity come to mind:

Flax, the plant from which linen is made, must be grown, harvested and
processed in a tedious and painstaking fashion before linen is obtained
(whereas shearing a sheep is relatively easy, even with hand clippers). 
The flax plants must have room to grow, and must be cultivated in a
favorable environment.  After harvest, the plants are crushed and put
into small ponds where they are left to soak for a period of time (a few
weeks, I believe).  This crushing and soaking makes it possible for the
soft linen fibers within the tough plant stalks to be extracted.  

Whereas wool can be obtained from the farmer down the road, from
mail-order houses, or from a local spinners' guild, not many people can
find a source for flax.  If a city-dweller wishes to learn to work with
wool, not much equipment is required, and the wool is easy to obtain --
there are many people who still raise sheep.  But I have never seen a
flax working pond, much less a field full of flax, where I might go to
obtain the stuff.  If anyone know of a place where linen is available,
I'd certainly love to know about it.  Once the linen fibers have been
obtained, I believe they must be carded and spun just like wool before
they can be turned into cloth.  If the raw material is just not available
any more, it's no wonder that few people discuss its properties and how
it can be worked, etc.

Linen is very nice to wear and to work with, and is a very appropriate
material for garb construction.  It is nice to embroider and is certainly
cooler than wool.  Real linen is rather expensive, but 'linen look'
cloth, which is available in many fabric stores, can be used instead. 
The 'linen look' material is much cheaper, and is usually a linen/cotten
blend; I've always found that it wrinkles far less than cotten, too,
though it costs more than cotten broadcloth.

It would be nice to see more linen incorporated into garb; consider linen
or 'linen look' next time you shop.  'Linens' made from linen are also
much less scratchy than 'linens' made from wool.  :-)

-Robert of Ferness
From: dmb@jacobi.ucsd.edu (Doug Brownell)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Vellum
Date: 6 Oct 1992 23:41:38 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: jacobi.ucsd.edu
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

Greetings unto the Rialto and all its denizens,
from Lord Thomas Brownwell in Calafia

Good Martin di Mont Blanc asks:
: Good Gentles;
: Does anyone know...
: 2.	Any info about the making of Vellum (our supply here is a bit erratic).
: Yours in Service
: Martin de Mont Blanc (Alex Tewes)

There is an excellent book called 'Handbook for Calligraphers',
or 'Calligrapher's Handbook' by Ms Heather Child, which is a
compendium of articles on all things Calligraphic, by the guild
of Scribes and Calligraphers in Merry old England (and beyond).
I believe there is an article on the treatment of Vellum in it.
I have heard that the preparation of the skins is a Royal Pain,
and not to be undertaken by the faint of heart.  There is only
one supplier here in the US that I have contact with, namely
Pendragon, in Minnesota (I don't have their address on hand).  I
just bought a half-skin (~3 sq ft), at the enormous cost of
$26.50 a sq ft which will apparently be enough for a decent
sized scroll (11 in by 14 in).  The hide is de-haired with a
lime solution, then scraped and softened.  Somewhere in the
process it is coated with something (gum sandrac?) and
essentially sanded smooth, but not too smooth.  All this is from
memory; a copy of Child's book would be much more explanatory.
It should be available world-wide.  I'll try to remember to
glance at the book to see if I've mis-remembered much, and will
respond in more detail of there is a hue and cry.

Yours in Service
Thomas Brownwell, calligrapher at large

Douglas M. Brownell                     |  Thomas Brownwell
Physics Grad Student                    |  College of St Artemis &
                                        |     Canton of Summergate
                                        |  Barony of Calafia
Just one o' the Gouttes....             |  Kingdom of Caid
(thick Slavic accent)                   |
" For Goutheim e-mail                   |
         <dmb@jacobi.ucsd.edu>          |  Fieldless, a Goutte barry
    or   <dbrownell@ucsd.edu> "         |  wavy Azure & Argent
(I stole this from Iulstan ;-)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: vnend@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (D. W. James)
Subject: Re: Consultants needed
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 12:50:29 GMT

In article <1992Sep22.214850.10572@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu> cctimar@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (Charles) writes:
)To all upon the Rialto doth Charles the clerk send greetings.
 
)Dave Aronson has kindly volunteered to maintain the list of Rialto
)consultants, and to post it periodically.  Several gentles have
)volunteered to act as consultants for various topic.
 
)However, many large areas are still not covered.  Consultants are still
)needed for:
 
)Mediaeval
)   Heraldry
)   Names (by language?)

	May I suggest that, rather than listing individuals for this one,
that you list SCAHRLDS.pucc.princeton.edu?  This is a mailing list of
over 100 heralds from all over the (Known) world and levels of experience.
After all, the list was set up to answer questions as well as discuss 
SCA heraldry.

	If you have a question on SCA heraldry, and are not a subscriber
to the list, I suggest that you note that in your message to the list.  If
you want to subscribe to the list while people are answering your question,
just send mail to listserv@pucc.princeton.edu with a body of:

subscribe scahrlds yourfirstname yourlastname

and you will be subscribing.  If you are not interested in reading the list
after your question has been discussed, just sent another message to the
listserv with a body of:

unsub scahrlds

and you'll be off of the list.  Easy and relatively painless.

Kwellend-Njal
-- 
Vnend, Lottery winner #316                 Ignorance is the mother of adventure.  
vnend@princeton.edu, vnend@pucc.bitnet, or {backbone}!princeton!nudity!vnend        
        Anonymous posting service (NO FLAMES!):vnend@ms.uky.edu                          
              "Exploding food is both messy and dangerous."
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA description
Date: 30 Sep 1992 20:38:32 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep30.201538.8873@nas.nasa.gov> cassie@worf.nas.nasa.gov (Cassandra L. Baldassano) writes:
>
>I like the way the FBI classifies the SCA, "A para-military organization".

The way I heard it, it was the Department of Defense, not the FBI, and
they classified us as "a mostly-harmless paramilitary organization  with
its own standing army and with a high probablity of reconstuting itself
after nuclear war."

This comes up on the Rialto every now and then.  Nobody's ever been able
to confirm or deny it.  It happens that in the Kingdom of Atlantia there's
a gentleman named Vuong Manh (mundanely Dick Eney) who flies a fairly
high-level desk at the State Department.  He might be able to find out--
but he's not very active these days and nobody on the Rialto seems to
know how to reach him.  *Sigh*


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Argent, a cross forme'e sable

Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
From: moonman@camelot.bradley.edu (Craig Levin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Feet Voting
Date: 26 Sep 92 17:53:13 GMT
Organization: House of the Moss Rose

Unto the Gentles of the Rialto, Greetings!

Lord Tadhg writes:

{a few things deleted} 

> Like most stereotypes, the "household = evil politics" has a basis in
> fact; the reason most people associate the two is (a) seeing it happen and
> (b) talking to people who have seen it happen. Personally, I think
> "households" are more bug than feature; I wouldn't mind seeing them vanish
> forever.

	On the other hand, some households stay out of politics
entirely. The household I belong to, the House of the Moss Rose, has
stayed out of politics almost altogether, since we're newcomers and
are really a group of friends who as a group within the SCA have
adopted that name.

	IMO, households form a useful part of the SCA. Newcomers are
brought into our group, receive literature and tons of encouragement
to join in the fun from us, buy fabric and have their garb made by my
lady, our seamstress. Later, they go to events, with one of us sort of
escorting them around to explain things they don't understand, and eat
with us, as sort of one big supportive family.
 
--
Gawd! I LOVE the smell of Greek Fire in the morning! 
                                -Richard Lionhearted 
 
Craig Levin/Pedro de Alcazar, Illiton, MKdm moonman@camelot.bradley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: Ken Stuart  <kps1@cornell.edu>
Subject: seeking medieval stories
Nntp-Posting-User: kps1@cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d1
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 15:10:56 GMT

Greetings all.  

We are considering the construction of a bibliography of medieval stories
that are suitable for presentation to SCA audiences.  We are therefore
seeking relevant references, specifically the names of books that contain
such stories.  If you can recommend any, please drop a line to
kps1@cornell.edu with your suggestions.  We will post the results of this
endeavor.  If possible, please indicate approximate date and locale in
which stories were told.

We are most interested in stories that are short, amusing and which pass
a message (a moral) to the listeners.  If you know of other stories,
though, that do not fit any of these categories, by all means send them
too.  We are not seeking stories about the SCA, filk songs, poems,
ballads or songs.  We want only documentably in-period sources for this
collection.  Please do not send the stories themselves, just the places
where others might find them.

Every good wish,
     Maebh ni Clerigh
     Robert of Ferness (kps1@cornell.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Subject: Re: Staking out the Eric. (Was: "Autocr Dancing from Pictures; Waiversi)
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 01:44:20 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.182619.14924@news.arc.nasa.gov> keradwc@news.arc.nasa.gov (Kevin Connery) writes:
>Corun MacAnndra quotes Dorothea, and asks:
>
>>>porta-privies], or stake out the Eric.  
>>
>>
>>Stake out the Eric? That's a new one on me. Please explain, M'Lady. IMWTK!
>
>Ah, my lord. 'Tis a fine old Western custom at large events, to find
>a gentle named Eric, and plant him in the middle of the fighting area.
>It's great sport.

Sort of like anyone named "the Pell?" ;-)

In service,

Corun not the Pell



-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra    |
  Dark Horde by birth  |      Forewarned is a Hindu god.
    Moritu by choice   |
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Jousting?
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 19:13:10

 JM> * People die in horse combat.  Any sort of 
 JM> realistic fighting on horse is
.....stuff deleted......
 JM> horse combat you see at
 JM> Ren Fairs; those are guild actors doing 
 JM> choreographed combat, not amateurs
 JM> doing free-for-all fighting.  If some Society 
Plus, not even the RenFair jousters are safe from injury.  Either last 
 year or the year before last, one of the pros got a splinter through 
 the eyeslot, which entered his brain.  Thanks to modern medicine, he's 
 still with us, but it's my understanding from various rennies that 
 he's still having a lot of problems, particularly with his memory.
    I heard that the jousters have added a fine mesh behind the 
 eyeslots to help prevent this in the future.
    Gwenllian CfM

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ruth Woodring)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
From: cassie@worf.nas.nasa.gov (Cassandra L. Baldassano)
Subject: Re: SCA description
Organization: Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation Facility NASA
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 20:15:38 GMT
Reply-To: cassie@worf.nas.nasa.gov (Cassandra L. Baldassano)

In article <9209301734.AA08403@math.bu.edu>, jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki) writes:
|> 
|> Here's a thought for the one-line description of the SCA: 
|> 
|> 	The SCA -- interactive historical fiction
|> 
|> Comments?

I like the way the FBI classifies the SCA, "A para-military organization".

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Euriol
From: 00mjstum@bsu-ucs.uucp (Matthew J. Stum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Cost of armor (was: Membership Privileges?)
Date: 29 Sep 92 13:40:10 GMT

Catie Helm (Twcs) writes:
> Bill Sommerfeld writes (can you tell this is a vax yet?):
>>
>>You're confusing capital expenses with operating expenses.
>>It's $150 for armor, which will last many years, and $25/year (or
>>whatever it is these days) for membership.
>>
>>If your armor lasts 6 years, that's $150 for armor, and $150 for
>>membership over those six years.  I suspect that most fighters would
>>consider the $150 for armor better spent.
> 
> Gott im Himmel Sei!  $150 for armour?!?  My helmet cost more than that!

My helm cost me a dozen hand-made arrows. <grin>  And while it's not
the prettiest thing, it's functional as hell.  I've taken some pretty
serious blows and there is no evidence other than duct-tape glue.

[...]
> So I have a beautiful helm, and it cost more than $150.  My hands and
> arms and legs are my living; I spent more than $150 on hand protection
> alone.  I can't afford to lose the use of them.  I've been recovering
> from a ligament injury of my thumb, and can't do any leatherwork.  I've
> lost several hundred dollars of projected "hobby revenues" over the
> summer because of it, not to mention that I have outstanding commissions
> I can't complete until I can stand to push a tool.  I will opine that
> if safety is important to you, then your armour better not have cost
> you just $150...

Actually, it's not quite fair to equate cost with safety or functionality.
We've been able to score on a lot of _very_ cheap materials around here
lately.  Okay, so a lot of us are using plastic in our armor... but we've
gotten ahold of _several_ free 55 gal. drums of 1/4 inch plastic.  As for
hand protection, I scored on a brand new set of what I consider very
protective hockey gloves for $30.  (They were "display models".)

> I have neglected to state that, dispite being an anti-fop, I displike the
> look of blatantly modern material on the field.  I will admit, that while
> plastic is cheap, metal looks better.  I joined this game because I like
> history, not because I want to win crown (though I admit, it would be
> nice to win crown  ;-).  Stick-jocks wearing plastic and duck tape on the
> field really ruin the look of the lists for me.  I'd rather lose and look
> authentic than win and look crappy.  It's where my head space is at.

And while my armor is very far from period-looking I find that a simple
fighting tunic/tabard works wonders.  I do it as much out of respect for
others as I do for myself (I don't like to look at it either).  I'm one of
the more authentic-oriented people in our group but I don't have the time,
money, or resources right now to come up with period gauntlets and body
armor.  I'd rather get some functional stuff _now_ and start fighting (I
_just_ authorized S&S.. yeah!) and then slowly replace my stuff as I get
the resources.

Just another perspective...

In Service,
Gwydion

-- 
Matt Stum                    Gwydion ap Myrddin       Ball State University
00mjstum@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu   Shire of Afonlyn, MK     Muncie, IN  USA
From: Jeff Lee <jlee@smylex.UUCP>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: English summer
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 17:28:28 EDT
Organization: Shipbrook Software  (Tampa, FL)

Greetings from Godfrey!

Master William de Corbie writes:
>                                                    I see it as a problem
> in the SCA, that so many places are too hot for real medieval clothes;
> you really cannot wear anything more than a T-tunic. All those gorgeous
> fur-trimmed doublets and such, would kill you in Trimaris.

All too true.

Still, 'tis better to look good than to feel good...   :-)

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Net:  Jeff Lee / jlee@smylex.uucp / jlee%smylex.uucp@tscs.tscs.com     |
| SCA:  Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook / Wyvernwood, Trimaris                 |
|       Per pale azure and argent, a clarion counterchanged or and gules |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
      "Of course!  Lager!  The only thing that can kill a vindaloo!"
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: infant wear (was Re: Historical Survey Question)
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:19:12 GMT

In article <07hzpw#@rpi.edu> habura@vccnorthb.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura) writes:
>Bertram, if you can dig up a piece of coral jewelry (especially a necklace),
>put that on her too. I've seen several 15th and 16th century paintings of
>infants wearing coral; I used to know why, but have forgotten.

Teething.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Horse armoring
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:36:20

 CM> directions at once. One
 CM> could presume that the ankles of the....animals in 
 CM> question, were fitted
 CM> with spike bearing anklets, but I have no evidence 
They are already being struck by one he** of a mace, and you want to 
 make it a spiked mace?  Actually, now that I cogitate on it, I'd be 
 willing to bet that spiked anklets would be more of a danger to the 
 horse than to others.  Horses tend to kick dead-on when they're 
 aiming, so the anklets would have to be effective in a glancing 
 situation.......
     my two pence worth...
         Gwenllian CfM

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca