HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: KEVIN@MSUS1.MSUS.EDU (Kevin Whyte)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gun blast noise in a car?
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:34:41 GMT


#From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
#Subject:Re: Gun blast noise in a car?

##boone@athena.cs.uga.edu (Roggie Boone) writes:

##My question is, if one has to shoot inside a car (either at someone
##in your car, or through a windshield to get someone trying to get 
##into your car), how do you protect your ears (and those of passengers)
##from the blast noise?
#

This sounds kinda gruesome but would it work?  Assuming you are in close
proximity of the kidnapper anyway, could you just bury the muzzle in his
side/gut whatever and pull the trigger?  Seems like most of the noise would be
silenced by his clothes and body.  

I've thought about this a lot recently especially with the upswing in
car-jackings.  I don't know that having a firearm in the car is going to do you
a damn bit of good anyway.  Where would you keep it?  How could you get to it
before the perp shoots?  I think prevention is the only way to combat
car-jacking because once the attacker is in your car it's too late.
Anyone have any ideas/suggestions on how to deal with the situation?

============================================================================
Kevin Whyte						kevin@msus1.msus.edu
	**Representing and speaking for no one but myself.**
"Still, the best augers are those who divine from the portents of the past. 
They compile phenomenal records." Croaker "The Black Company" by Glen Cook
From: hudson@ualr.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Answers to the M16 stories thread
Date: 13 Dec 92 15:46:32 GMT
Organization: University of Arkansas at Little Rock

In article <22793@drutx.ATT.COM>, ljb@parkcity.dr.att.com (BLO54620-BonhamLJ(DR2194)240) writes:
# 
# 
# 2.  The development of the M16 and the 5.56mm cartridge was the result of
# conflicting goals and experiences of the U.S. Army.  The biggest influence has
# been the sharp decline in weapon knowledge and marksman ship among the general
# U.S. population which has forced the military to develop weapons which can be
# handed to a boot who has no idea of how a gun works when he/she enters the
# military and this boot can be trained within a few weeks to use the weapon in
# support of the large unit tactics in which most soldiers partcipate.  This means
# a weapon which is light, has low recoil, and a high rate of fire.  In this
# environment the ability to hit at 500+ yards or inflict fatal one shot wounds is
# deemed un-necessary (no flames, this is the Army talking, not me).  Also the 
# smaller cartridge allows more rounds to be carried by the soldier (you need a
# lot if you can't hit the broad side of a barn) and makes the logistics folks' job
# easier.  Also, the Army had to reconcile the threats of two different types of
# adversary.  The Warsaw Pact was steadily increasing its use of body armor (need
# high penetration) and our potential Asian adversaries were fond of the human wave
# (need full auto for everybody in the platoon). 
# 
# Well, there in a nut shell is the why and wherefores of the M16 and M1911/A1
# sagas.  If you folks would like more detailed info posted, just holler.
# 
# 
# Larry
# 
-- 
As Larry indicated, that is it in a "nutshell", a very small one (-8).

The story on the M1 to M14 evolution followed by the M16 revolution and
how it was (or was not, depending on who is talking) forced on the services
is covered in several excellent books, each interesting reading (get the 
all of them to get the best picture of what happened).

R. Blake Stevens has written several books which speak to this:

M14 Rifle: From the M1 Garand to the M21

North American FALs (FAL Series, V1, get all three)

The Black Rifle (about the M16)

Also, Edward Clinton Ezell did:

The Search for a Light Rifle (PhD Dissertation)

and a book based on this, can't remember the name.

All of these are very large volumes, having lots of technical drawings
and interesting test reports.  Also, a usually objective summary of 
happenings in their historical context is included.  Very interesting and 
informative.
___________________________________________________________

Keith Hudson		hudson%eivax@ualr.edu	(best)
   N5EEZ		mkhudson@ualr.edu	(secondary)
-----------------------------------------------------------
          University of Arkansas at Little Rock
      Department of Electronics and Instrumentation
___________________________________________________________
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gun blast noise in a car?
Date: 18 Dec 92 01:56:29 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:

#I don't remember if this was mentioned, but I think some "defensive"
#(_real_ "defensive") driving study might be more appropriate.  

	For those interested, the Motorcycle Safety Foundation offers
courses on motorcycle driving, and these courses spend a great deal
of time teaching you defensive habits.  I've found that they transfer
to auto driving quite well, and above all promote a situational awareness
that can only be helpful in any situation whether armed or not.

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<  "This isn't an answer, it's a pagan dance around a midnight fire  >
<   written in intellectual runes." -- Rich Young                    >
From: hancock@iex.iex.com (David Hancock)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Smith & Wesson Autos
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:55:29 GMT
Organization: IEX Corporation, Dallas

In article <jrh.2b29689a-e@mustang.dell.com> jrh@mustang.dell.com (Randy Howard) writes:
#
(some editing done)
#accuracy all were disappointing to say the least.  It seems to me that for the
#amount of pistolsmith work required to get one of these to shoot well, you
#could afford to go out and buy a SIG, or a Colt.  

I have a Colt 1911A1 that will group 10 shots into less than 3" @ 50 yds!
That is, after Clark Custom Guns worked it over.  I had to save a while to
send that 10 year-old mk4, series 70 away to be "fixed", however.

#
#I can only surmise that the popularity of S&W is due to pricing being such 
#that a lot of people own them, and everyone loves whatever it is they decide 
#to buy (even if deep inside they know it's a piece of junk, they can't admit 
#it).  Another reason is probably the proliferation of bumber stickers saying 
#something like 'This Run-Down Pickup Truck Protected by Swith & Wesson'.  
#

	The S&W 3906 was bought because: 1) it fit my wife's hands.  Glocks
and Berettas failed the grip test as well ; 2) yes, it was a couple hundred
dollars less than a SIG.  Apparently I don't enjoy the level of resources that
many others on the net do.  I can't afford to take the moderator's standard
advice and "buy them all":-/
	The Smith does OK, however.  I know this is anecdotal, and a sample
of one isn't representative, but *this* unit  has never jammed, failed to feed
or eject, or malfunctioned in any way (it wouldn't cycle on some light reloads,
but I'll wager a SIG wouldn't have, either).  It has fed Sivertips, Nyclads,
and Hornady XTP hollowpoints without fail.  With 5 grains of Unique under a
122 grain cast truncated cone bullet, it will put 10 rounds in a 2" circle
@ 25 yards from a hand-held rest position.  It will perforate a B-27 10 ring
@ 7 yards as fast as I can "connect the dots".  The single action trigger is
marginal, but the DA is as good as the one SIG I have shot.  Perhaps I have
been uncritical of its workmanship, and I must say I haven't carefully
examined a comparable SIG, but I don't agree that it is a "piece of junk".
Oh, yes, *this* pistol is entirely stock.

By the way, I don't own a pickup, and I don't put bumper stickers on my cars.
-- 
David Hancock -*- IEX Corporation	       | Email: [uunet!]iex!hancock
		  1400 Preston Road, Suite 350 | Voice: (214) 612-2600
		  Plano, Texas 75093
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Forest for the trees (Carjacking, was Re: Gun blast noise in a car?)
Date: 20 Dec 92 01:25:22 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:

#I've thought about posting this as well.  With all these folks talking
#about not having enough time to get the gun, or "what do you do when
#perp jumps in the passenger side and sits on your gun" I just kept 
#thinking:  If your door is locked, you will have several tens of 
#seconds to grab your gun while he is tugging at the door handle or
#trying to break the glass.

	My mother's car automatically locks the doors at speeds over
15 miles per hour.  I've always wondered just what it was trying to
protect, since you're at greatest danger when the car is stopped, and
at speeds above 15mph or so the doors get rather difficult to open.
On a side note, the door locks do not keep the door from flying open
in the event of an accident -- they merely disconnect the handles from
the locking mechanism.  For safety, lock them in town and unlock them
on the highway.  If you are in an accident, an EMT would rather try a
door than bust your window and get glass on or in any wounds.

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<  "This isn't an answer, it's a pagan dance around a midnight fire  >
<   written in intellectual runes." -- Rich Young                    >
From: btree!andy@UCSD.EDU (Andy Bosik)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Silver Soldering
Date: 18 Dec 92 01:56:32 GMT
Organization: Brooktree Corporation

Hi! I heard a while ago somewhere that You can
"Silver-Solder" a flash hider perminently to
a barrel (As on a CAR-15 type rifle).
I was wondering,is this the same type of 
"silver-solder" that can be bought at any
Rat-Shack? Or is this a speacial heavy-duty
grade?
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Match, Wheel, Flint Locks
Date: 19 Dec 92 15:20:01 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <1992Dec15.161059.29511@amc.com>, reb@amc.com (Bob Brunjes) writes:
# The latest of these designs, the flintlock, has a hammer which holds
# the flint, a priming pan at the touch hole, and a combination priming-
# pan-cover and flint-striker called a frizzen.  When you pull the 
# trigger on this guy, the flint strikes the frizzen, simultaneously
# uncovering the priming pan and directing a shower of sparks into it.
# If the priming powder ignites, but the charge in the barrel does not,
# you do not have a shot; you just have a "flash in the pan."
# 
# Bob Brunjes		Applied Microsystems Corp

Wet weather, for obvious reasons, would significantly reduce the
probability of successful firing by a flintlock.  The Battle of
Fishing Creek, in which my great-great-great-grandfather fought
on the Union side, was a Union victory at least partly because one
of the Confederate regiments was armed with flintlocks, and the 
wet weather made them inoperative.

    By The Dim and Flaring Lamps: The Civil War Diaries of Samuel McIlvaine
    edited by Clayton E. Cramer

    ISBN: 0-912526-46-7
    published by Library Research Associates, Monroe, NY, 1990
    $28.95 in hardback
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
C++ is to C, as lung cancer is to lung.
From: crumrine@pxdvgx.erenj.com (MDCRUMR  Crumrine)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Looking for 10mm recomendations
Date: 13 Dec 92 23:12:20 GMT
Organization: Exxon Research and Engineering, NJ

Hi all,

I'm starting to consider a 10mm, and would be interested in any
recomendations/experience.  Who has offerings in this calibur?

Thanks in advance,

mike

================================================================
Mike Crumrine
Exxon Research and Engineering
(908) 730-2237
crumrine@erenj.com
From: btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Transporting guns on planes
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:23:29 GMT
Organization: Brooktree Corporation, San Diego

In article <168B8B241.DHBHM@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu> DHBHM@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu (Bruce H. McIntosh) writes:
#My brother carted his handgun horde out west with him last spring, and
#had several hoops to jump through, to wit:
#  1.  The guns had to be completely unloaded and packed in a separate,
#      locked case (not allowed to be in luggage)
#  2.  He had to hand the case to the ticket agent for "special handling",
#      to ensure that the airline knew about the guns being aboard, and to
#      ensure that he got them back at the far end.  Apparently, the guns
#      were placed apart from the rest of the luggage and a complete paper
#      trail was maintained of who handled them, etc.

This sounds like the airline was trying to really do it right.
Which one was it?  Thanks.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Legal Age for Gun Ownership in New Jersey
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:34:01 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <D2150096.l3tamu@sproul.sproul.com>, by Sproul@sproul.sproul.com (Mark Sproul):
# 
# 
# In article <199212120513.AA89569@ns1.CC.Lehigh.EDU> (rec.guns), dhm1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DANIEL HILL MCCAULEY) writes:
# # 
# #     Does anyone know the legal age for owning shotgun in New Jersey.  Thanks
# # 
# # 
# #                                 -Dan
#  
# Age of ownership is a federal mandate, not a state law.
# 
# Long guns 18 years old
# Hand guns 21 years old
# 

Beg your pardon, but aren't those the ages at which you're allowed to
_purchase_ the respective firearms?  I don't think it says anything about
"owning".
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: harrism@aquila.rtp.dg.com (Mike Harris)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Time Restriction on Gun Sales?
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:33:26 GMT
Organization: Data General Corp., Research Triangle Park, NC

In article <9212140537.AA05977@mimsy.cs.UMD.EDU>, C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
|> 
|> Is there any law on the federal level that specifies a time period
|> between the purchase of a gun and the selling of it?
|> 
|> For example, let's say I bought a gun and a week later I want to
|> sell it.  Can I legally make a private sale, or do I have to hold
|> on to the gun for a month or so before selling it?
|> 
|> 
|> Rob
|> 
|> [MODERATOR:  Probably only restrictions on local level, what do
|> you think folks?   Also depends upon whether or not you are a dealer.
|> For example, here in MD a dealer who buys a used firearm *may not*
|> resell the firearm for a short period (two weeks? I forget), and may
|> in fact be required to look up the serno in a state database.]

	If you aren't a dealer then your only risk is that your sale
	could be considered a "straw sale" - where your intention was
	soley to buy a gun for someone else - usually  one who otherwise 
	wasn't qualified. A dealer must refuse to sell if he believes this
	is the case. If making a straw sale wasn't your intent then I
	don't believe you'll violate any Federal laws.

regards, Mike
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Make that WAS. Re: Why no plastic cased .38 special?  (There is!)
Date: 19 Dec 92 00:24:41 GMT
Organization: Circle 'C' Shellfish Ranch, Shores-of-the-Pacific, California

In article <9212162010.AA15706@sparcler.cc.ncsu.edu> hes@unity.ncsu.edu writes:
#In article <1992Dec16.113628.4692@michael.apple.com> you write:
## ...
##Why are there no {rifle,pistol, revolver} rounds loaded in plastic
##cases?  Sure, we have the Aluminum Blazers, but why not plastic?
#
#  I have fired some .38 Special rounds in plastic cases (with
#metal bases.)  The company's name is something like U.S.Ammo
#(I have the empties at home.)  The ammo works just fine, but
#it sounds different and feels as if the recoil is on the light
#side. 
...
#  While I bought my box a fe years ago, I'm pretty sure I've
#seen this for sale within the last couple of months.

Make that WAS ...  I tracked them down (The 800 number is still 
listed for U.S. Ammunition Company, but when you call them they
are now named Ranier Ammunition company.)  They no longer make
the plastic ammo, they make plated bullets now.

If you find any of that plastic cased ammo, I'll pay a small premium
to get a box of it for collection purposes ... (Cost + Shipping + $10?).

Guess many other folks were not willing to pay the cost of the snap-in
bullets ...

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
From: callison@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Legal Age for Gun Ownership in New Jersey
Date: 15 Dec 92 13:29:48 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <D2150096.l3tamu@sproul.sproul.com> Sproul@sproul.sproul.com (Mark Sproul) writes:
#Age of ownership is a federal mandate, not a state law.
#
#Long guns 18 years old
#Hand guns 21 years old

Hmmm...if the signs in Wal-Mart are accurate (and I would assume that they
are), that also applies to ammo for guns. But I have a question:
	How do they treat ammo for carbines (eg, .44Mag or .357Mag carbines)?
It's a "pistol" caliber, but if you're shooting it in a Marlin .44Mag 
lever action rifle, it's a long-arm round...Or what about ammo for T/C
pistols? I'd look it up myself, but I can't find my #$%@ned red book. :-(

					James

James P. Callison       Microcomputer Coordinator        OU Law Library 
Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu
	constellation!biglaw!callison@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
	Your self esteem is enhanced by remaining an ignoramus?
	Please! Let's call it "informationally impaired."
		--Hobbes and Calvin, "Calvin and Hobbes"
From: upchrch!joel@peora.sdc.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch  )
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: A gun in the home (UPDATE!)
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:26:37 GMT
Organization: Upchurch Computer Consulting, Orlando FL

C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:

# Here's the catch - she does not want a safe that uses a Simplex-type
# lock.  What she wants me to get is a Bio-Scan safe - the kind that
# scans your fingerprints.  I found their ad, which states that they
# start at $157.95.  The maker is Bedford Technologies.
# 
# Does anyone have more info on these safes?

I've heard that those bioscanning safes aren't quite ready for prime
time. For that much money why not get a regular safe? I was Wal-Mart
today and they had a safe with a lighted key pad for $120. Bolt that
to the floor in your bedroom closet and set it for some six to eight
digit number and it isn't likely that your daughter is going to guess
the number and you can use it store stuff besides your firearms. I
think you can also set it up so you need a key in addition to the
code. A cheap safe like that isn't going to stop a determined thief,
but it probably stop some juvie that's breaking into your house for
crack money, if you attach it to something solid.

(If your mail bounces use the address below.)
Joel Upchurch/Upchurch Computer Consulting/718 Galsworthy/Orlando, FL 32809
joel@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982
From: fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: *Nice* ranges are a myth?
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:34:24 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)

My ex-brother-inlaw lived in Hershey PA and was a member
of a club there, it had +100 acres, a restrauant (open to
public), trap and skeet ranges. Indoor 100yd rifle, indoor
pistol range, several bow ranges both indoor and out. Well
ventilated indoor range for black powder (suck curtins off
windows exhaust fans). I only went there once to watch a big
trap shoot and remember sitting in the restrauant eating
prime rib and watching the shoot through the window. It was
a nice place (20 years ago and I dont remember the name).
I lived in NJ at the time so was not interested in membership.

For those of you around the Bucknell (lewisburg PA) area
there is a gun shop on the other side of the river that 
sells memberships in a shooting club just down the road
that has a nice clubhouse and enclosed indoor ranges
(shooters indoors with windows that flop down) and was
quite active with trap, skeet and small bore rifle comp.
I think it was "White Deer" or something, was going out
with a nurse from that area so I joined as most weekends
were spent out that way. T&G Pine walls with many trophys
both from here and abroad. BIG fireplace and well stocked 
kitchen.
Clean, lotta history (and oldtimers to go with it and 
their famous cry of "Leave The *%($*%*$ ByLaws alone, dammit")
-- 
##########################################################
There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES 
                 and TARGETS !!!
#1/XS1100LH	#2/10/10/92
Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
Internet: fist@iscp.bellcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist  
#include <std.disclaimer> My opinions are my own!!!
I Don't shop in malls, I BUY my jeans, jackets and ammo
in the same store.
From: barber@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (Alan V. Barber)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: pre-1964's?  Why are they special?
Date: 15 Dec 92 03:41:50 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories Palo Alto,CA

In article <1992Dec10.204148.14404@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> tjohnson@xenon.stanford.edu (Ted C. Johnson) writes:
#What's so special about pre-1964 Winchester bolt-action rifles?
#
#-Ted "born in '64 :-)"

George Madis in "The Winchester Book" (which I highly recommend for lever-
lovers) writes:

  "Collectors have given the model 70, as they have the model 94, the desig-
  nation pre '64 and post '64.  After 1964, the following changes in the
  model 70 were made: Bolt handles were brazed to the bolt; prior to this
  bolts and handles were made in one piece.
    Bolts were engine turned
    Floor plates were black chromed
    Magazine followers were of stainless steel
    Triggers were widened
    Barrels were swaged--actually the greatest improvement in barrel making
    since rifling was invented, in the opinion of this writer.
    New sights, new calibers, new stock designs and buttplates were added.
  The change from pre 64 to the later style occurred at number 581,471 in
  1964, according to factory records.  Old stocks were used to assemble
  rifles between number 570,000 and 581,471."

It is also interesting what he says about the model 1894 lever action:

  "In 1963, internal parts were changed to lower production costs and a
  special casting process was employed for making the receiver.  This
  resulted in the "post-64" model 94.  Because of difficulty in polishing
  and bluing, black chrome was used for exterior finishes.  Sales slumped
  so badly with these changes that the company hurried as much as a dinosaur
  could, improving the elevator and tightening the action and trigger in
  1971.  People have called the 1964-1971 model 94, because of the rattle,
  the 'Japanese Winchester'.  It was not made in Japan.  The 'pre-64' model
  has two carrier (elevator) screws, one entering from the left and one
  from the right.  'Post-64' models have only one screw."

  Al Barber
  '73 Winchester #106560