HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kcd@cbmvax.commodore.com (Ken Dyke - Amiga Networking)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: Amiga and Quicktime
Date: 12 Oct 92 18:29:24 GMT
Reply-To: kcd@cbmvax.commodore.com (Ken Dyke - Amiga Networking)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <Bvzru7.FI3@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>
>   I thought Quicktime compression was basically just JPEG?  Correct me if I'm
>wrong, though, as I don't know much about it either.  But this is what I get
>from quickly browsing the Mac newsgroups.  (Also, I have a very tiny Mac JPEG
>viewer that just calls the Quicktime libraries, so the two must have something
>in common)

Yes and no.  QuickTime supports many different compression algorithms, one of
which is JPEG.  There are also methods for compressing video data, and for
compressing graphics and animation data.  Each method has it's advantages and
disadvantages (usually a tradeof between quality, speed, and storage require-
ments.)

>---
>| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
>--------------------------------------------------
>      Slick Willie Clinton: JUST SAY NO!!!


-- 
Kenneth Dyke - Software Engineer            Internet: kcd@cbmvax.commodore.com 
Amiga Networking Group                      BIX: kcd     Phone: (215) 344-3014
"PPP?  You *must* be joking..."                      INCLUDE "stddisclaimer.i"
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.graphics:6663 comp.sys.amiga.misc:15008
From: ch41@prism.gatech.EDU (ch41 ch41 )
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: animation controllers
Keywords: animation
Date: 12 Oct 92 13:10:16 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


 I have posted this article once before but got no responses, so I am 
posting it again in the hopes that it receives some this time.  My appologies
to those who have already seen this.

I want to purchase an animation controller to work with Lightwave3D.  I have
a 40mhz 68030 and an Amiga 2000.  I am considering the following controllers:

	1) Personal SFC	- Nucleus Electronics
	2) BCD 2000A	- BCD Associates
	3) VAC 120	- United Media 

Has anyone had any experience with these controllers?  How good are they?
I have heard a great deal about the Personal SFC, but what makes the other
two controllers (~$995) better that the Personal SFC (~$500)?  Are there
any other controllers I should be looking at?

Thanks in advance.

- Claye Hart  

-- 
Claye K. Hart
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!ch41
Internet: ch41@prism.gatech.edu
From: David_Corn@fcircus.sat.tx.us (David Corn)
Subject: Re: Amiga and Quicktime
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
X-NewsSoftware: BBX-UMB 0.25c beta (Oct 09 1992)
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:08:45 CDT
Organization: The Flying Circus BBS, San Antonio, TX



way you want it - if you want to show it on another system you just use an
image processor on the frames.  That's all there is to it.  If there
were any
demand whatsoever for such a product it would be out tomorrow.

___

As you can see from the posts on here, there is.

The Amiga can't do it at the present time, A4000 excluded.

That means 99.9999% of the Amigas out there can't do it, ever, and the
A4000 can't do it right now.  Happy?

The Amiga's animating abilities are INCREDIBLE, and the Quicktime's
speed is a joke (albeit only on a relatively cheap IIsi...it smokes on a
Quadra...)  but the standards and abilities built into the program make
it VERY, VERY attractive to many people.

DC


-- 
David_Corn@fcircus.sat.tx.us
.. david corn ...
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: Amiga and Quicktime
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 02:54:30 GMT

In article <67741@cup.portal.com> DonD@cup.portal.com (Don Robert DeCosta) writes:
> [conversation regarding Apple's Quicktime and Mac Multitasking deleted]
>
>>On my old old old
>>A2000 I could have a program graphing a spreadhsheet, run an anim, and use
>>the workbench (with the screen layered so you could see em all) with 1
>>damn MEG.  This Quadra/Quicktime system is sick.  I'm POSITIVE the A4000
>>with its double A chips could put it to shame.
>>
>>Ciao...
>>
>
>ANIM could do what Quicktime's doing 5 years ago!! 

   WRONG!  ANIM is a very simple method of playing animations that
monopolizes the display.  QuickTime is a MUCH more flexible animation
scheme, but all of the extra flexibility makes it very slow.  QuickTime
animations can be rescaled on the fly, ANIMs cannot.  QuickTime
animations can be scaled to almost any color depth on the fly, while
ANIMs cannot.  QuickTime includes support for a plethora of 
compression formats, while ANIM does not.  

   Try taking an Amiga ANIM, play it in a 320x200 window on a
1280x512 screen, and then resize the windowto a bizarre shape 
(160x300, for instance).  Does the animation automatically resize
while it is playing?  This would assume that you found a way to
play ANIMs in a window in the first place, which no ANIM player 
will do.

>Don DeCosta           |The nice thing about sanity is|  VM/Nomad2
>DonD@cup.portal.com   |you can lose it more than once|  Amiga/Imagine

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
      Slick Willie Clinton: JUST SAY NO!!!
From: cse_stu@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Local Video vs. 4000
Date: 15 Oct 92 16:26:10 -0600
Distribution: world
Organization: Memphis State University

With all this talk about how fast the 4000 is for animation speed my question
is how fast do the new IBM compts. with a 486 and local video run.
========
Video Man
========
From: west@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Bruce West)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: Amiga and Quicktime
Date: 16 Oct 92 06:55:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: mercury.1992Oct16.065507.1827
Organization: University of North Texas, Denton

In article <David_Corn.0gfr@fcircus.sat.tx.us> David_Corn@fcircus.sat.tx.us (David Corn) writes:
>
>In <67741@cup.portal.com>, DonD@cup.portal.com (Don Robert DeCosta) writes:
>> 
>>  [conversation regarding Apple's Quicktime and Mac Multitasking deleted]
>> [stuff about how Amiga should support a QuickTime like standard] 
>
>But the Amiga CAN'T.  It has no software to dither 24 bits down to 8
>bits on the fly, and to display it at a decent rate.  You'd have to get
>an A4000 just to be ABLE to display the 8 bit pictures...and then you'd
>have to find software to display it.  As of now, nothing will do it, and
>I'd be REALLY suprised if anyone could pull it off.

    CAN'T?  Don't be a moron.  "Doesn't have the software" dont NOT equal can't.
That a rediculous presumtion.  This whole discussion is so stupid - being 
discussed by a bunch of non-programmers.  QuickTime is NOT a standard - it is
not a format like ANIM.  It is simply a graphics program that uses it's own
format - and this program has become a big deal.   
   Can QuickTime be reproduced on an Amiga.  EASY AS PIE!  First, let's just
say we have a 24 bit graphics card so we don't compare apples to oranges.
Now, this "dithering on the fly" concept is CRAP.  You change the number of
colors and watch this thing calculate it.  That's not "on the fly".  One
simple format that would "dither on the fly" is to have the anim dithered to
all the color standards when you save it. That was AmigaTime would just look
up the correctly colored anim inside out AmigaTime format.  Problem solved.
Granted, this is not the best method, but off the top of my head I just came
up with a method that would display the anim in the correct # of colors dependin
on the screen.  

THIS IS MUST BE SAID:
    In my above I was talking 60fps solutions.  If an A4000 wanted to mimic
QuickTime and keep the poor speed - it would have NO problem "dithering on the
fly."  You just run a TAD-like image degrader on each group of frames WHILE
you display the last group of frames (this might actually work fast, cool.).
But all these things you say "i bet you couldn't do it." are completely
USELESS features to the majority of Amiga users.  Who the hell would make an
anim and then wish to display it in less colors?!?!?  I mean, you make it the
way you want it - if you want to show it on another system you just use an
image processor on the frames.  That's all there is to it.  If there were any
demand whatsoever for such a product it would be out tomorrow.

>-- 
>David_Corn@fcircus.sat.tx.us
>.. david corn ...

Ciao....


                                               - Jason
From: jorngh@dhhalden.no (JORN GUNNAR HALONEN)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: DPaint V around Feb 93.
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:13:30 GMT
Organization: Ostfold College

In article <1992Oct6.125800.24445@cs.ruu.nl> clldomps@cs.ruu.nl (Louis van Dompselaar) writes:
>- speedup of blend/shade etc. functions. DPaint 3 was okay,
>  don't know why 4 is so much slower.

I think it was mentioned in a magazine that much of the code was
rewritten from version 3 to 4 since there was a totally different
crew involved developing it.

Gee, I guess I missed the beginning of this thread ... is DP V to
be released soon ? Have any specs been revealed ?

Would anyone care to update me (email) ? Thanks ...

*JORN* (email : jorngh@sofus.dhhalden.no)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: boberg@lysator.liu.se (Stefan Boberg)
Subject: Re: A4000 graphics
Organization: Lysator Academic Computer Society, Linkoping University, Sweden
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 12:05:31 GMT

barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:

>In article <35868@cbmvax.commodore.com> grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) writes:
>>Marc, the "de-interlacing" is all in hardware in Alice/Lisa, though we refer
>>to it as scan doubling.  The software component is simply to determine when to
>>enable the scan doubling and build an approrite copper list.
>>You should really shut the fuck up when you're clueless, which seems to
>>be most the of the time.

>   Why don't you explain more clearly where my explanation of what is going
>on is in conflict with yours?  I am saying that Commodore reprogrammed the
>Productivity mode to generate the DblPAL and DblNTSC modes, and has written
>some routines into the OS to determine when one of the DblXXXX modes is needed
>bring up the appropriate one.  If this is wrong, say so and state what is
>really going on.  Don't insult me and expect me to be satisfied because it
>won't work.

  You cannot program the ECS chips to do *scan-doubling*. You can open up a
non-interlaced 676*564 screen in DblPal mode, but not a 676*282 screen with
the same height. Scan-doubling is applied to screens that would open up in
non-interlaced modes otherwise. This is impossible with the ECS chips as
they cannot draw the same scanline twice without fancy copper tricks (and
I don't know if it's possible with copper tricks even).

>| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
-- 
Stefan Boberg - AP & EE student at Linkoping Institute of Technology, Sweden
 Author of LhA, ArjA and LhArcA. Co-author of Alien Breed, Project X ...
  EMail: boberg@lysator.liu.se, lha@augs.se           FIDO: 2:204/404.7
    UUCP:  {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmehq!cbmswe!team17!boberg
From: hjalmar@cbmswe.se.so.commodore.com (Peter Hjalmarsson Sweden)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re: New Amiga(s) Expansion/Future
Date: 13 Oct 92 04:23:59 GMT
Reply-To: hjalmar@cbmswe.se.so.commodore.com (Peter Hjalmarsson Sweden)
Organization: Commodore Sweden

In article <2027@cbmehq.esco.so.commodore.com> grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) writes:
>In article <OD.6badnetOA92-901-302p0_51529898@piraya.bad.se> Roger_Nordin@atb.bbs.bad.se (Roger Nordin) writes:
>> > These kinds of posts belong on ADVOCACY!!
>> I am posting here in order to hopefully give the people at C= some feedback on 
>> the A4000, and to get an improved A4000 out!

A good place to do this is to mail to suggestions@cbmvax.commodore.com



-- 
============================================================\\======
Peter Hjalmarsson     \  hjalmar@cbmswe.se.so.commodore.com  \\  _
Amiga Support Engineer >-----------------------------------   \\//
Commodore Sweden      /  ...speaking for myself, not Commodore \/
From: kopnicky@owlnet.rice.edu (Lyle Warren Kopnicky)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re: A4000 800x600
Keywords: A4000, interlace
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:02:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: rice.Bw6L4w.Bsx
Organization: Rice University

OK, thanks for the help.  I read the specs again for the SVGA 800x600
mode, and it turns out it *would* require something like a 19ns dot clock.
I also calculated (roughly) that with a 17.5ns dot clock (twice current
speed) you can get a 1024x768 non-interlaced display with around 46KHz
horizontal and 55Hz vertical scan rates.  With a 14ns dot clock you can
get a 1280x1024 non-interlaced display.
	So what exactly are the complications involved in speeding up
the dot clock for the future chipsets?

+----------------------------Ren & Stimpy--------------------------------+
| "Psst. Hey Guido. It's all so clear to me now. I'm the keeper of the   |
| cheese. And you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it. That's |
| why he's gonna kill us. So we gotta beat it. Yeah. Before he lets      |
| loose the marmosets on us! Don't worry, little missy! I'll save you!"  |
+--------------- Quantum Seep -- kopnicky@owlnet.rice.edu ---------------+
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re: Is it silly to buy a
Date: 15 Oct 92 02:00:48 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <67730@cup.portal.com> Wizard0@cup.portal.com (Asher Wizard Feldman) writes:
> 
> Right on, everyone forget about the IDE drive. Nearly all ibm clones use
> IDE, when they need a cdrom, which most users don't they add a scsi 
> card. Why should I pay extra to be able to use a cdrom drive, when
> I probobably will never buy one?

Traditionally, PC CDROM drives haven't been real SCSI, but instead a simpler
"pseudo-SCSI" IDE-like interface, bundled with an interface card. The true-SCSI
drives were a different sub-model.

Perhaps this has changed...
-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...
but no way officially representing:   uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
Commodore, Engineering Department     domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: kaltenha@informatik.uni-freiburg.de (Raoul Kaltenhaeuser)
Subject: Apple DAT-Streamer for Amiga?
Organization: Institut fuer Informatik der Universitaet Freiburg, Deutschland
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 11:17:11 GMT

As I am thinking of buying a DAT backup streamer for my A 3000, and
I saw some cheap ones in MacWorld ads, I wonder if I will have problems
connecting one of them to my SCSI interface. Is there something I have
to watch out for, or do I have to change wires? Any recommendations?

Thanks...

Raoul


--
      ................................................
      :  Raoul Kaltenhaeuser   /    GrafikMaschine   :
      :  kaltenha@vega.informatik.uni-freiburg.de    :
      :..............................................:
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jazz@netcom.com (David C. Navas)
Subject: Re: The Real A4000 Argument.  Barrett Bashing, Too... :)
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 06:38:36 GMT

[Useless plea to follupto .advocacy deleted]
In article <1992Oct11.151358.27772@src4src.linet.org> bill@src4src.linet.org (Bill Lanides) writes:
>My whole problem with the A4000 is:
>-Commodore says there won't be any trade-in's for another 9 months!

Where did you hear that?
That actually sounds quite excellent.  Perhaps they are waiting for
SCSI and DSP before offering a trade-in.  This would make marketing a
forward-thinking group, which is a nice, pleasant thought.

>-Commodore says they are working on a 16-bit sound Amiga with 33mhz 040 and
>they can't guarantee the A4000 will be upgradable to it.

Gosh, where did you hear that?  Sounds excellent.
Hey, you didn't expect your 25Mhz A4000 to start suddenly running everything
on the motherboard another 8Mhz faster, right?

>-Commodore says they will be releasing new models like the A500 & A2000 but
>with AGA chips.. but not for at least 1 year. (They also say they have no
>plans to discontinue the A500 or A2000.)

Hmm, 1 year is definitely too far in the future.
An 030 card for the A4000 shouldn't take more than a month (if that), I
would have thought.  Where did you get this info?  Of course, they're
scrambling with the SCSI-II addition (I hope!).  And I'd rather have a
33Mhz 040, DSP equipped, SCSI-II machine than a low-end AGA.  --SALIVATE--

In fact, make mine a 33Mhz 040, dual 66Mhz 3210 and a wide SCSI-II machine
with 2.0G drive, please.  Thanks. ;)
Oh, and the four-chipset thing too, of course.
COD it in three weeks and you can name your price :)

>-Commodores marketing is down the tubes..
> The flyer on the A4000?  I could do better in PageStream!

Sigh, that's what you get when you fire your marketing team.
But then, what's new?

>What do you mean "2000fps"???  They'd be lucky to get 30!

Yes, CHIP RAM <--> FAST RAM is abysmally slow for current tech.  Thankfully
we don't have to "worry" about not being able to run 1024x768x8 through that
interface ;)

-- 
David Navas                                   	jazz@netcom.com
Co-author of: Web Data Acq. and Anal.		dnavas@oracle.com
Upcoming products: Shadow V, Jazzbench 2.0.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: dmacphee@nyx.cs.du.edu (Don mac phee)
Subject: Re: Avoid the Amiga 4000
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 07:02:52 GMT

In article <Bw31A0.y9@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>In article <n0bfet@ofa123.fidonet.org> Aric.Caley@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:
>>THERE ISNT A SINGLE GRAPHICS MODE THAT THE A3000 CAN DO THAT THE A4000 CAN'T.
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   ****YOU ARE WRONG****!!!!!

   Nooo.... he's actually RIGHT. Compare availible displays. AGA has more.
AGA also has ALL the 3000 display modes. You *REALLY* aught to take another
remedial English class.

>   The A3000 can deinterlace NTSC overscan, all the way to 724x480.  The
>DblNTSC mode -- which is used as a substitute for the deinterlaced NTSC mode
>(and which is the mode that you get when you "promote" an NTSC mode) can 
>only handle 676x480.  The DblPAL mode is also constrained to 676 pixels in
>the horizontal resolution.

 You split hairs. Fortunately these hairs are only 48 pixels wide. I
personally am not worried by them, because *I* didn't buy a cheap
$200 VGA monitor. Spending a bit more money on a decent monitor should
be a minor point. Especially considering the ADDED value of your NEW
4000 would be GREATLY enhanced by a MultiScan monitor.

 I have a 1084s and am not snivelling as much as you are over losing it to
get more video modes. (Zzzzzz.......)

>   Besides, my actual point is expressed as follows:
>
>>>The magnitude of the decrease in
>>> non-interlaced resolution is not the point; the point is that the
>>> resolution
>>> did not increase at all, when it badly needed to.  In a market with
>>> Macintosh
>>> Quadras with resolutions beyond 1024x768 non-interlaced in standard
>>> hardware,

 And the premium you pay for that? The purpose of the AGA seems to have been
to increase the available colors to people doing CG work, and regular users.
People needing high-end video have a NUMBER of viable solutions. Go away.

>   The A2024 monitor sucks anymore.  1008x800 is not all that high of a 
>resolution, and it is strictly monochrome.  Besides, the A2024 still costs
>the Earth.

 Sun seems to have made a killing with mono only. Crawl out from under your
rock and take a look at the Sun every once in a while. (Pun intended.)
>
>---
>| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
>--------------------------------------------------
>      Slick Willie Clinton: JUST SAY NO!!!


--
Amiga ///   Donald Mac Phee  \\\ agimA How many people remember that an 
2000 /// Rpg104@Uriacc.Bitnet \\\ 0002 MPC was the first PC clone on the
 \\\/// dmacphee@Nyx.Cs.Du.Edu \\\///  market? Get an A4000 and find out 
  \XX/ Personal_09@Ecl1.Uri.Edu \XX/   what Multimedia REALLY is. $2699!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: sugai@spls38.ccs.mt.nec.co.jp (Masaru Sugai)
Subject: A couple of questions (Okta SCSI2 controller compatible FD)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:39:03 GMT
Organization: NEC Corporation, +81(3)5476-1084(VOX)/1083(FAX)

Last weekend I saw a zorro II card called Okta something (I forgot the rest).
It is a combination of SCSI 2 controller and memory card accepting up to
8 MB zip ram,  and I am pretty curious about its performance and compatiblity
to CDROM drives and removables.  I would like to know your firsthand
experience, and please let me know.

Also I would apreciate any info on A2000/3000 compatible FD drives. I can
find several MFM DD/HD drives, but I am note sure of vendors and model
numbers.

Thanks in advance.
Masaru Sugai   NEC Corporation Tokyo Japan
   sugai@ccs.mt.nec.co.jp, masaru@world.std.com
From: kkrebs@amilink.UUCP (Ken Krebs)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re: Is it silly to buy an A3000 now?
Date: 12 Oct 92 01:27:08 GMT
Organization: Sacramento Amiga Computer Club - Sacramento, CA

In article <1992Oct10.023955.23038@ugle.unit.no> eyvind@Lise.Unit.NO (Eyvind Bernhardsen) writes:
> In article <1992Oct9.210445.3309@news.iastate.edu>, Marc Barrett (now I'll have to
> go put money in the swear-box) writes:
> 
> >In article <ym2asB3w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> vidiot@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Rankin Eric) writes:
> >>PS.  If I understand what my local C= dealer told me, there is a 
> >>video enhancer built into the ALICE chip (I think that's her name).  Is 
> >>this not correct?  (this question is not directed at you, Dan, I would 
> >>rather take advice from Bill Gates).
> 
> >   No, it is not correct.  The "promotion" feature is software-only.  If a
> >program (such as an old, unsupported utility or game) insists on opening an
> >interlaced screen, the screen will be opened as interlaced and there will be
> >nothing you will be able to do about it.
> 
> I'm quite sure that some programmer (that's right MB, someone who actually does
> something *useful* for the Amiga community) will come up with a patch to solve
> this little problem, just like they have for PAL/NTSC.
> 
> >---
> >| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
> >--------------------------------------------------
> >              A4000: JUST SAY NO!!!
> 
> -Eyvind (eyvind@lise.unit.no)


Nico Francois has released Amiga2NTSC v1.1 which includes the following:

Amiga2NTSC
Amiga2PAL
Amiga2DoubleNTSC  <=- These two are for Kickstart 3.0 and AGA machines
Amiga2DoublePAL   <=- only!


These little programs force the mode specified so that ALL screens open in
that mode unless you select a ScreenMode out of the display database.



-- 

*********** NewOrderDepecheModeUltravoxViolentFemmesKillingJoke |Amiga 3000|
*Ken Krebs* SkinnyPuppyLaTourBauhausBookOfLoveModernEnglishB52s |25Mhz/6Meg|
*********** FishBoneBigCountryJoyDivisonSiouxsie&TheBansheesXTC |Multitask!|
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
       UUCP: uunet!csusac.ecs.csus.edu!citrus!amilink!kkrebs
   InterNet: amilink!kkrebs@citrus.sac.ca.us or: kkrebs@citrus.sac.ca.us