HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: How the hell can religion and action not be related?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 08:00:34 GMT

gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick) writes:
: 
: I believe you have misattributed Christianity to Westerners as such;
: Western European pagans can often trace their heritage back very many
: centuries, and list the persecution of their families with very great
: accuracy indeed. If there is an opportunism here it is rather part of

No way. Many western pagans claim that they can trace their heritage way
back. However, this is just self-delusion. There is very little information
about pagans in European history. Few can trace their ancestors back as far
as the pilgrims, much less back to Europe - where few records exist - except
for the nobles. There is a fair amount of "folk medicine" history in the US,
particularly in the Southeastern US. However, most of these people are also
Christian - not what we would normally consider pagan.

... deleted ...

: While I do appreciate the untoward nature of the attack on you for
: misunderstanding the joke (another case of cultural differences I do
: feel the Americans can learn to respect more before lashing out in
: knee-jerk reaction), here you are merely sprouting your own ignorance
: of the pagan traditions of Europe which have never sought to dominate
: or conquer anyone at any time in history. I have posted Australian
: material myself to this group and all of it has been received warmly
: and intelligently, which is in marked contrast to some other groups
: on the Internet.

I suggest you read a little more European history. Or, do you not
consider the Vikings and Norsemen to have been pagans? How about the
Saxons or Angles or Jutes? How about the Picts or Britons or Celts?

Bill
From: alizard@pil.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: A Californian perspective on "Sneaky Pete" Wilson
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 02:30:46 PST

Re: Re: a prophecy come to pass . . . maybe
By: michael #0 @albert.bu.edu (Michael Chaplin) USEnet      
 
> From: michael@albert.bu.edu (Michael Chaplin)
> Newsgroups: alt.pagan
> Subject: Re: a prophecy come to pass . . . maybe
> Date: 5 Nov 92 21:49:36 GMT
> =see the religious right give up the title of republican, so that means the
> =fight will be a good one. [...]
>  
> Possibly Kemp, but I'd keep my eyes out for both
> Gov. Pete Wilson and Gov. Bill Weld (republicans) 
> fat from the fire- when things are going good economically,
> I feel it safe to say, people tend to not look for scape-goats,
> religious or otherwise.
> =never relinquish control, expect to see Kemp and other traditional republica
> =split off to form their own party. Bye-Bye!
> Nothing would please me more to see the Christian Coalition (tm)

While Pete Wilson's desire to be President is well known, I'm not sure what
he will be using for a political base. He expended a lot of personal prestige
in this election, his pet proposition 165 was a power grab designed as
"welfare reform" (defined in this case as reducing average AFDC payments below
average monthly rent) which would have left him in COMPLETE charge over the
state budget. It lost. Many state Republicans feel that the money spent on
saturation advertising might have been better spent on electing Republican
candidates. He also expended political prestige in not delivering California
for Bush and in not helping the GOP senatorial candidates, resulting in
California with 2 Democratic women representing it. 
He has so little control over the Religious Right dominated party machinery
that he told state GOP conventions delegates to stay home to prevent a quorum
from showing up, for fear that the convention would give him a platform so
far to the Right that even his ad budget could sell it to the voters. (which
is exactly what happened) 

I see the California GOP breaking up, with the Religious Right taking the
GOP name and the moderates (everyone who doesn't keep Hitler memorabilia
around) will form something called the Conservative Party or something like
that. 

By the way, my feelings for Pete Wilson translate to utter contempt for both
his competence and his ideology.

One other thing about California politics as it reflects pagans. Local
elections are non-partisan. So you can't read a ballot and automatically know
political affiliations.

blessings
                                                 A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== mea saurus, mea saurus, mea maxima saurus! ====== 93 ======
                  (slogan contributed by Jessica McGeary)
Mail to me should be sent to:       |  There are no fnords in this sig file.
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     ^^^ preferred site ^^^         |  from only if you want to wait a
PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard     |  solstice or two for my answer.
alizard@seer.mystic.com(backup site)|              Kallisti!
From: alizard@pil.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: re: damn this lie!!!!
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 22:38:22 PST

Re: DAMN THIS LIE!!!!
By: gil #0 @Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick) USEnet      

Gil Hardwick says:
If the US has something more hopeful and promising to offer the world
than mass bloodshed, and the economic, social and cultural ruin of
anything that does not happen to resemble things American, please do
go ahead and show us.
------------------- end of quote
The US has 3 basic classes of items to sell the world:
1. manufacturing / design capability for goods
2. software in the broadest sense... from the MS-DOS or Unix operating
system that makes it possible for you to post to this newsgroup to Madonna
books, CDs, and videos
3. food

Note that moral leadership isn't on the list. However, I can't think of any
country on Earth that is a major vendor for moral leadership... and so what?
If you don't like US products, don't buy them.

                                                 A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== mea saurus, mea saurus, mea maxima saurus! ====== 93 ======
                  (slogan contributed by Jessica McGeary)
Mail to me should be sent to:       |  There are no fnords in this sig file.
alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM     |  autoreply to address I posted this
     ^^^ preferred site ^^^         |  from only if you want to wait a
PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard     |  solstice or two for my answer.
alizard@seer.mystic.com(backup site)|              Kallisti!
From: sj1s+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sherrianne M. Johnson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Pets ( was Re: raising children)
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:15:59 GMT
	<1992Nov5.043225.16794@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
Organization: Junior, Art, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Radzy writes:

>How do you feel about more exotic pets?  Rabbits can be good pets --
>I've heard of people who have them litter-box trained, even.

Actually, we DID have a rabbit once, but it was an ornery one--we got it
at one of those dime-a-dozen pet stores, Doctor X.  It may have been
abused;  most of the pets we had gotten there acted that way.  Makes me
pissed.  That's actually how I got some of my cockatiels;  I walked
through the store near Christmas and saw some poor shuddering birds with
their wings clipped way too far on a low T-perch--kid height--with
screaming kids running by.  It turned into a rescue mission.  :(

But back to the rabbit...it didn't housetrain too well, and it was
pretty hostile, so that didn't work out too well with us.  It probably
could have worked, but we'd have to go into it with much more
forethought...

>For some reason, I feel like being a welcome wagon today.  I've already
>sent a few welcome messages via e-mail.  Maybe I'm just missing soc.bi,
>since I don't have time to read it any more.

Yeah, I don't have time for it very much either.  :)

*Hugs* back!

blessings,

sher
From: marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: greetings
Date: 11 Nov 92 16:59:51 GMT
Organization: Cicely Public Access UNIX, Cicely, AK

sj1s+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sherrianne M. Johnson) writes:

>>>Good news if your seem to be alergic to cats, chances you are only alergic
>>>to cat dandruf (yes cats do have dandruf) if the cat is bathed about once
>>>a week most alergy sufferers have no problems around the cat.

This is the old theory. That's what's true if one is allergic to dogs, and
everyone always assumed that cats were the same, but...

>However, to address the other point, I had been told all during my
>treatments, allergy shots, etc, that I was not actually allergic to the
>cat's hair and dander, but instead to an oil in the cat's *saliva*. 
>That kinda makes the bath idea valid, but as soon as that cat grooms
>itself sulkily in the corner, wham!  Allergic again.

This is the new theory about cat allergies. A lot harder to overcome. Still, 
the other old theory is that if you're allergic to one fuzzy creature, you're
basically allergic to all of them. I've not found that to be the case with 
myself; I'm deadly allergic to cats and horses, but can tolerate dogs well and 
have had no trouble with my rabbit. It's best to just hang around the animal
to see if you react; skin tests work okay, but aren't as accurate as their cost
would indicate. :-> I speak from experience as an allergy sufferer (and I do 
mean suffer -- I'm allergic to *everything*), and as the daughter of an allergy
technician (my mom has been doing shots, skin tests, etc. for 25-odd years).

Marty


=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Seems like there ought to be a way we could look each other in the eye
To see we're all in this together, and put all thoughts of victory aside.
Seems like there ought to be a way we could turn this fear into trust;
No matter what you say, there has to be a way --
Every living thing is counting on us."      

Marty Hale-Evans                                 M   @   *   O   %   8   U
89 Mass. Ave., Ste. 199, Boston, MA 02115       \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Hello?
From: haley@husc11.harvard.edu (Elizabeth Haley)
Date: 6 Nov 92 09:16:24 GMT

Hello:

You have said the secret word for today, which was "Hello".

For this I now pronounce you to be a Pope. (or Mome if you prefer)
You may now take on priests or laypeople as needed.

BTW It is the Church of the Secret Word and Temple of Small Furry
animals with College Degrees...
--
When life seems to be getting you down...
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
======David Charles Todd, tHE mAN wITH tHREE fIRST nAMES======
-------------------- David misses eBeth ----------------------
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-hacksaw@headcheese.daa.uc.edu=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
			   ...ask it why it is torturing geese

-- 
=---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=The author of this letter is a fabulously intelligent person and is very   =
=Silly. She is also remarkably well loved, by the author of this signature. =
=---------------------------haley@husc9.harvard.edu-------------------------=
From: donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Civil Wars--Did you see the Evil Witch storyline?
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 92 12:45:53 CST
Organization: The Brewers' Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

rkoch@lonestar.utsa.edu (Ruth M. Koch) writes:
> and a point was made not to riducule the witches belief.  Besides, I
> like Mariel Hemmingway, and they showed her male costar without his shirt
> many times ;).

I particularly loved the dream scene where Sydney (Mariel Hemingway) sees
her co-star turn into a Satyr! This was done marvelously and I thought he made
a very believable Satyr... ;)

As to the Witch storyline... I was worried at first but I think it came off
well in the end. I only wish that the Witch had been a little less cartoonish
in her language and protrayal. Her constant harping on the evils of
The Patriarch (tm) got a little tiring, but then I always find that a little
tiring, don't you? ;)

Bright Blessings to all on the Net!


--------------------
Donal, SysAdmin of The Brewers' Witch BBS -- +1 713 272 7350
(Internet) donal@brewich.hou.tx.us  (Work) bill%pssi@brewich.hou.tx.us
(CIS) 76460,1443  (WFS) file-request@brewich.hou.tx.us  INDEX or HELP
(SCA) Ld. Donal Dubh, IC of Dun Bruddair, B of the Stargate, K of Ansteorra
From: wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: any atheist pagans out there?
Date: 7 Nov 92 13:26:48 GMT
Organization: Red Wolfe @ The Wolves Den
X-Md4-Signature: f07af8da2747306781f0dadc3627811d

In article <Bx838H.36C@cscns.com> rks@cscns.com (Island's Child) writes:
>wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury) writes:
>: In article <Bx21o5.CqE@cscns.com> rks@cscns.com (Island's Child) writes:
>: >It *has* to have some meaning. Otherwise, why do we bother? But then, how
>: >do you define beauty and truth? That is certainly subjective. Anyone who
>: >tries to tell me that there is meaning and purpose in the mundane lives
>: >of most people is simply full of crap. So -- is it a conscious choice we
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  <note this sentence>

>: >make to "opt out" of the everyday concerns -- working for someone else,
>: >produce-and-consume, acquisition -- for something more meaningful? 
>: 
>: What makes *you* so special that your life has meaning and purpose, and
>: J. Random Human's doesn't?
>
>I am talking about *all* of us! I am talking about the rote way most
>of us live and the purpose and meaning that comes from that. 

	This is a far cry from your statement that mundane lives meanings
are "crap". 

>: You have some kind of worth that they don't?
>
>Did I say that? If I did, kindly quote the part that states that. 

	Note the part of your paragraph that I underscored with '^'s
above.  The implication is read from your statement that "Anyone who tries
to tell me that there is meaning and purpose in the mundane lives of
most people is full of crap."   I can't see much of any other way to
respond when you say that something is crap.

>: Excuse me while I get disgusted over this kind of attitude.
>
>Find out what I am talking about first. Then get as disgusted as you like
>but keep in mind that the first sign of intellectual integrity is collecting
>facts before drawing a conclusion. 
>
>So that you will understand it, my basic statement is that most of us
>live banal lives. Where is the meaning or purpose in that? 
>
>Is that clear enough? 

	Life, in and of itself, is plenty of meaning.  The pure miracle
of life, totally without regard for the mental state of the liver, has
its own purpose.

	You may not recognize the inherent worth of that life, or the
dignity that is due for the person *simply because they are alive*, but
I see in that life a spark of the divine, and I will honor that.

	You make your meaning clear, and it merely confirms what I was
reacting to in your attitude.
-- 
Usenet Net News Administrator @ The Wolves Den  (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
news@wolves.durham.nc.us  news%wolves@cs.duke.edu  ...duke!wolves!news
"The flame war is a specific Usenet art form." --me
[This site is not affiliated with Duke University. (Idiots!) ]
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: swaim@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Parks Swaim)
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Organization: Rice University
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 21:44:24 GMT

In article <2AFC2A45.1829@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>NO ONE I've ever heard wants to "take anyone's guns away."  That is a
>stupid and sadly effective scare tactic used by the NRA to make their
>members paranoid.  Could it be because the NRA makes money off of such
>paranoia?  Naaaaaaah . . . 
  There was an NRA commercial during the Rush Limbaugh show featuring a quote
from the head of one of the network news agencies pretty much advocating
outlawing private ownership of guns. I don't remember the quote, but then I
haven't watched Rush in a long time.
-- 
Mike Swaim            | Canada will become the next world power
swaim@owlnet.rice.edu | and they will work to ENSLAVE all the nations
Disclamer: I lie      | of your planet. -Ricardo
Hastur Hastur Hastur Hastur Hastur Hastur Hastur Hasdtr yy['u [{}_+
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: dachamb@eos.ncsu.edu (DUANE ALFORD CHAMBLEE)
Subject: Need information on herbs that will abort
Originator: dachamb@c00143-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: dachamb@eos.ncsu.edu (DUANE ALFORD CHAMBLEE)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 06:16:29 GMT


Could someone please help me with a herbal remedy for my situation ? I am
pregnant . I would like to abort by herbs. I would really appreciate some
help. 

				Melanie
From: dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: personal to liam%alehaus@brewich.hou.tx.US
Date: 12 Nov 1992 21:49:04 GMT
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

Sorry for the wasted bandwidth, but I can't get mail through to you
at that address.  I just wanted to say that I had already posted all the
good herbal references that I knew and couldn't really help you any more,
but I said it all much more elegantly than this.

Dawn
"Hello death, goodbye Avenue A.  I'm getting tired of waiting, tired of
being afraid.  Joseph Campbell gave me hope and now I have been saved.
So I sing hello death, goodbye Avenue A."  "Folk Song" by Bongwater.

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: dwindsor@nyx.cs.du.edu (David Windsor)
Subject: Re: greetings
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 04:47:44 GMT


Good news if your seem to be alergic to cats, chances you are only alergic
to cat dandruf (yes cats do have dandruf) if the cat is bathed about once
a week most alergy sufferers have no problems around the cat.

David
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: to markbr URGENTLY!!!
Date: 5 Nov 92 23:29:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of California, Irvine

Mark,

I've been gatting your mail but my mail to you bounces!  This is why I
haven't been replying.  Please mail me and give me every damned one of
your mail addresses!

Blessings,
Janis
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:12612 alt.magick:5765
From: alizard@pil.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: re: Space: the final frontier
Date: 10 Nov 92 07:51:04 GMT

Re: Space: The Final Frontier
By: gil #0 @Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick) USEnet      
 
> From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
> Newsgroups: alt.pagan
> Subject: Space: The Final Frontier
> the general health of the community. I repeat, we have more high tech
> gadgetry than we can possibly know what to do with. Get it yet?
>  > >Or are you another of these Sci-Fi Dweeb Wizards, or something?
>  > >
>  > >Fucking mindless deadshit.
> I DON'T GIVE A SHIT HOW A TECHNOLOGICAL CIVILISATION WORKS! I MAKE NO
> CLAIM TO SUPERIORITY IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM, ONLY BEING A LARRIKIN
> CONVICT BLOODY OCKER, MATE, AND I SUGGEST YOU ARE HERE SUFFERING A
> MONUMENTAL FUCKING INFERIORITY COMPLEX!
> FUCKING MINDLESS DEADSHIT.
>                 DID YOU HEAR PROPERLY THAT TIME?
> Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au

Inferiority complex? Then why is it that you are the one screaming? As for
having more high tech gadgetry than "we" can possibly know what to do with,
I've got more faith in your people than you obviously do. As for your being
a "convict"... unless you have a police record you haven't posted to the
internet, that was your ancestors, not you. I certainly have heard you.
Everyone who is reading this newsgroup has heard you. Does anyone besides
you have any respect for your opinions outside of your rather narrow area
of expertise? 
                                                 A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== mea saurus, mea saurus, mea maxima saurus! ====== 93 ======
                  (slogan contributed by Jessica McGeary)
Mail to me should be sent to:       |  There are no fnords in this sig file.
alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM     |  autoreply to address I posted this
     ^^^ preferred site ^^^         |  from only if you want to wait a
PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard     |  solstice or two for my answer.
alizard@seer.mystic.com(backup site)|              Kallisti!

P.S. Piss off.
From: alizard@pil.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: re: a few words about election results
Date: 10 Nov 92 10:25:24 GMT

Re: Re: A Few Words About Election Results
By: altheimm #0 @nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim) USEnet      
 
> From: altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim)
> Newsgroups: alt.pagan
> Subject: Re: A Few Words About Election Results
> to no avail. The Democratic platform does not call for a ban on handguns,
> only a ban on assault weapons. I have yet to hear a rational argument on
> why a private citizen should be allowed an assault weapon. The other part 
> is a waiting period. Do you have a big problem with a one week waiting
> period? Just can't wait to kill someone? There has been no mention of 
> a complete ban on handguns anywhere, except maybe the ranting of some
> NRA lobbyists.

As for assault weapons... I think it's time to find out what people are being
hysterical about, the descriptions of the power of assault weapons I've seen
around here look like science fiction death rays, not any product of
Kalashnikov, Colt, or any other firearms company I ever heard of. So before
you discuss why people should or should not own assault rifles, define the
damn term?
Waiting period... if you or a loved one ever get a death threat based on
your religion or for any other reason, you will suddenly discover why I don't
support a waiting period. (matter of fact, that's how I became a gun owner)

Statements supporting outlawing of private gun ownership from NRA members
are generally direct quotes from prominent members of anti-gun organizations.
 
blessings...
                                                 A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== mea saurus, mea saurus, mea maxima saurus! ====== 93 ======
                  (slogan contributed by Jessica McGeary)
Mail to me should be sent to:       |  There are no fnords in this sig file.
alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM     |  autoreply to address I posted this
     ^^^ preferred site ^^^         |  from only if you want to wait a
PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard     |  solstice or two for my answer.
alizard@seer.mystic.com(backup site)|              Kallisti!
From: heimberg@pacific.mitre.org (Jeff Heimberger)
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 17:28:02 GMT

In article <gate.woqyTB1w165w@pil.UUCP> alizard@pil.UUCP writes:
>[...]
>4. Evidence is mounting that they [Republicans] are out to get us. 
>(by us, I mean pagans)
>[...]

Please cite your evidence, and use documented, verifiable sources...
not a challenge, just a request.

BB.

==============================================================================
 Jeff Heimberger                                 If I want your opinion, I'll
 heimberg@pacific.mitre.org                         read it in your entrails.
==============================================================================