HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rajah@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Unfamiliar phraseologies
Date: 25 Sep 92 21:35:39 EDT

Thanks a lot for those who have helped me out.
The overwhelming advice is:

1. Read AIM.
2. Get a radio (Radio Shack Jetstream, inexpensive, is suggested) 
   with VHF band and listen. Or use the radio in the plane.
From: aa718@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Taras Lawriw)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: For sale Picture of the New York Yankees Private Jet
Date: 29 Sep 1992 15:03:03 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


    I have a 5 1/2 x 4 picture of the New York Yankees private jet.
It is a Boeing 737-100 great picture am selling them for 2.25 each
if interested please send me e-mail.


-- 
Taras Lawriw                  |
aa718@cleveland.freenet.edu   |
Primary Sysop of the          |
Collectibels Sig   Go Collect |  Check Us Out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

In rec.aviation, peted@microsoft.com (Peter Duniho) writes:

> About deer whistles on gliders to warn those on the ground...
> This might be a dumb idea, but...

Actually, it is a great idea!

> How about putting a "deer whistle" or two on the glider?  For those
> of you that haven't heard of these, no, they're not a whistle to
> get the deer to come to you.  They're popular, especially in rural
> areas, because deer have this habit of crossing the road at exactly
> the wrong time, and taking their time about it too.  These whistles
> attach to your car, and generate a very loud whistle simply by the
> motion of the air through the whistle as your car careens towards
> the poor unsuspecting deer, alerting it to the fact that it should
> leave the road soon.  They can be heard from quite a distance.

Unfortunately, the Illinois State Patrol did a study where they attached
2 of these to every SP car in the state.  The "deer strike" accident
statistics didn't changed with or without the devices...  the deer get
used to them and they don't scare them off any more.  I suspect that
humans would soon ignore them also.

Also...  to people, they sound like a wind noise, since they operate in
the ultra-sonic range (above human hearing).

Our gliderport keeps everyone behind the tiedown line or in the gazebo,
unless they are actively launching or retrieving a sailplane.  We
believe that safety is everyone's business, from the new member to the
old hat.  Everyone is encouraged to inquire constantly about safety
related matters.  I believe it works!

Now, go get your glider rating... you'll be glad you did...
Then come to Colorado to do some soaring!

Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, jle@fc.hp.com, Jer_Eberhard@fc.hp.com
Hewlett-Packard UDL, 3404 East Harmony Road MS-99, Ft Collins, CO  80525-9599
Phone 303 229-2861, FAX 303 229-2838, 1UP10, Incoming 40 44.1N+105 33.0W
Civil Air Patrol, Pikes Peak 218, MSN Check Pilot, CFI Airplane & Glider, N0FZD
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.misc
From: cep@taligent.com (Christophe Pettus)
Subject: New Rec.aviation Groups!
Organization: Taligent, a little subsidiary of two really big companies.
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:24:24 GMT

The new rec.aviation.* groups have hit the world.  Regardless of our
past opinions on the subject, I hope that the reorg is all for the
better.  I would ask that, for a while, everyone continue to crosspost
their articles to rec.aviation, since it can take a while for some
sites to create the new groups.
--
-- Christophe

"Black is the color of non-conformity.  Everyone has to have it."
	T-shirt company executive
From: bmich@cs.utexas.edu (Brian Keith Michalk)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Ultralights
Date: 27 Sep 1992 13:19:36 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: cash.cs.utexas.edu

Well, I've read all the messages for the last two weeks, and now that the FAQ 
has come out, I think it is time I asked someone for the mailing list for 
an ultralight group, if there is such a thing.  Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: willcr@bud.sos.ivy.isc.com (Will Crowder)
Subject: On The Air
Followup-To: rec.aviation
Reply-To: willcr@ivy.isc.com
Organization: Interactive Systems Corp.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:18:58 GMT

I didn't hear this one personally, but my friend Marc Goroff
(marcgo@ivy.isc.com) who did probably won't find the time to post
it...Of course, I'll probably jumble it so badly that he'll *have* to
post his version!  :) :)

The scene: In an Arrow coming back from the Reno Air Races.  Another
aircraft is talking to Burbank Approach (or Coast or LA, can't
remember) about landing at Van Nuys and requests the right runway (16R)
and is told instead that he'll have to use the left runway due to a
disabled aircraft blocking 16R.

A/C: Can you tell us the nature of the disabled aircraft's problem?

ATC: Well, I wasn't on duty when it happened, but the scuttlebutt around
     here is that the pilot descended to field elevation before reaching
     the "gear down" part of his checklist.

Marc says they laughed the rest of the way back to El Monte over that
one.

Will
PP-ASEL-IA
-- 
Will Crowder                        | "Any airplane you can't roll ain't
Senior Member of Technical Staff    |    no damn good!"
(willcr@ivy.isc.com)                |       -- Tex Johnston
INTERACTIVE Systems Corp.           |
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: tel@cbnews.cb.att.com (thomas.e.lester)
Subject: Re: Logging PIC (sorry ... sigh )
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:57:43 GMT

In article <BvGEyp.4y7@taligent.com> cep@taligent.com (Christophe Pettus) writes:
>In article <MOERSCH.92Sep30234041@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU> moersch@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Jeff Moersch) writes:
>
>Examiners are frequently wrong about this, and I believe the examiner
>you quoted is wrong as well, especially given her reasoning.  The
>question of who _is_ PIC has never been in doubt: obviously, it has to
>be the student, since no one else is.  However, pardon me for
>shouting:
>
>	THERE IS NO STRONG RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN WHO IS PILOT-IN-COMMAND
>	AT A PARTICULAR TIME AND A PARTICULAR FLIGHT AND WHO IS ALLOWED
>	TO LOG PILOT-IN-COMMAND TIME FOR THAT PARTICULAR TIME IN THAT
>	PARTICULAR FLIGHT.
>
>A student pilot cannot log PIC time.  Period.  FAR 61.51 is quite
>explicit.  Now, since the most common case is that a student pilot goes

	Eh ??   Excuse me but....

	61.51 item 2 "Pilot in Command Flight Time"

    "for which the pilot is rated OR IS THE SOLE OCCUPANT OF THE AIRCRAFT"

    Excuse for shouting.... ;-)    How do you get "quite explicit"
    out of that.  Sounds to me like a student logs pic on solo.
    No one else in in the aircraft. Period.



-- 
	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	Tom Lester				att!cblph!tel
	Sonerai IIL (under TEST)		(614) 860-3259
	N4LX 					(614) 927-8106
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: fultz@scs.carleton.ca (Brian Fultz)
Subject: Re: How about:  Too cold to fly?
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:08:40 GMT

In article <1ahduoINN936@gap.caltech.edu> gauss@cco.caltech.edu (Edward J. Gauss) writes:
>In article <2510505@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> bills@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Bill Standerfer) writes:
>>
>>I survived a measly -50F one morning in Maine...
>
>  But if you have a nice warm
>hanger to do your preflight, or a great big herman-nelson heater, most
>little planes can be flown down to -30.  Most air taxi operations stop
>when it gets much below that.  Only the ice fishermen attempt outtings
>at colder temperatures, and of course the CAP who has to go out looking
>when fishermen don't come home the next day.
>
2 short stories:
Story 1.  One day the Ottawa Flying Club tried to do operations
in -30C weather.  The first 3 C-152's that left ended up in a field
1 1/2 miles from the end of the runway with no oil ( left through the
broken oil cooler ).  Now ATC has a rule "no c-152 below -28C"
The Ottawa Flying Club has a rule "no C-152 below -26C, no student
solo below -20C".  They will let the C-172 go solo to -30C.
Story 2.  One day I was second in line to a person who pulled a C-172
out of the heated hanger and put an hour on the hobbs.  I did a walk
around and found water in the tanks.  After getting it all ( I thought)
my Instructor and I tried to go flying and only got as far as the 
run-up when the engine fuel lines froze.  We ended up pushing it back
to the School.  I think every now and then about what would have
happened if the first person put .9 on the hobbs.


Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: bdboyle@erenj.com (Bryan D. Boyle)
Subject: Re: Look out, left coasters!
Organization: Exxon Research and Engineering Co., NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 12:22:54 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.170001.16203@walter.cray.com> osh@cray.com (O'Shaughnessy John) writes:
>
>
>I'll be there for InterOp too.  It would be great to get a group of
>rec.aviators together.   
>
>(Who knows, maybe even arrange a fly-out some evening?)
>
>

Count me in!  Will be there (arriving on the 24th afternoon-); have a
ride with someone scheduled for sunday afternoon-should we be trying 
to set an (un)official BOF session up?
 
Bryan D. Boyle      | Opinions definately mine, not Exxon's...
Senior Engineer     | PVT/ASEL/IA
ER&E Co.            | bdboyle@erenj.com


Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.homebuilt
From: jim@stargate.helios.nd.edu (Jim McCusker)
Subject: Seawinds Sea Plane Kit
Keywords: homebuilts, RV-4
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 17:07:53 GMT

My fiances' father works for a company which manufactures a very interesting
fixed-wing kit.  It's a sea-plane type that has some very unique styling.
The aircraft uses a rear-engine design located fixed above the tail behind
the pilot.  The wings are below the cabon with pontoons on the tips, the 
wheels are retractable.  The company was originally located in Canada and
could never finish the product, until recently it was purchased by PA 
company called AEC located just outside of Philadelphia, I believe in
Pottstown, but I'm not sure.  I know that they are now shipping the parts
and are taking orders.  This is a definate product for someone who wants to
have a very unique aircraft.  If anyone is interested in further info I can
dig up their number.

            -- Jim McCusker
From: hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Rule Number One
Date: 27 Sep 92 05:02:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

From article <1992Sep26.171028.2499@eecs.nwu.edu>, by phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre):
> In article <1992Sep25.194006.21455@midway.uchicago.edu>, thisted@galton.uchicago.edu (Ronald A. Thisted) writes:
> |> Many people quote
> |> >>(Amy Lindsay) who writes:
> |> >>[...]
> |> >>>	      NEVER FLY WHEN YOU'RE TIRED OR SHORT TEMPERED.
> |> >>>
> |> 
> |> To which I might add, NEVER READ REC.AVIATION WHEN YOU'RE TIRED OR
> |> SHORT TEMPERED. (Or if you do, don't post any followups :-)
> 
> Hey, that's a pretty good rule.  Maybe we could come up with some
> kind of "IMSAFE" acronym for posting to rec.aviation!  :-)

Maybe you will like to require a "posting checkride" before posting in 
this group?
From: dth@reef.cis.ufl.edu (David Hightower)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: What did you do to the rest of your shirt?
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:22:24 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Florida CIS Dept.

This is fairly common practice at military airfields, including the
military aero clubs.  they take the shirt you were wearing at the time
of your solo, and then write the date and time of your first solo (as
well as the location) on the shirt--along with various humorous
comments.  My instructor drew a cartoon of a cessna 152 at 100 AGL,
flaring to land with the Airspeed indicator showing 40 Knots--and with
the instructor panicing (panicking? paniking?) in the tower--to show how
my first few attempts at landing went.

_________________________________________________________________________
Dave Hightower		|    opinion? I'm allowed to have an opinion?
dth@cis.ufl.edu		| well, if I DID have one, it'd be mine, all mine!
hightowr@cadre.af.mil   |              "Omnia Vincit Amour"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC))
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Unfamiliar phraseologies
Date: 2 Oct 92 12:53:16 GMT
Organization: U. S. Naval Academy

In article <1431@systech.com> ken@systech.com (Ken Brown) writes:
!In article <37211@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu! dth@reef.cis.ufl.edu (David Hightower) writes:
!!
!!On a related note, if you ever get a chance, you might want to look
!!through the Air Traffic Control manual (FAA Handbook 7110.65).  Knowing
!!what to say is nice, but knowing what the controller is going to
!!say--and WHY--really helps.  In fact, on several occasions I've caught
!!myself lip-synching along with the controller.....and I (for some
!!reason) feel offended if he/she doesn't get it right!
!! 
!
!It is obvious that controllers are very precise in the words that
!they use and the order in which they are spoken.  They say
!"correction" when they have misspoken, "affirmative" and "negative"
!when they mean 'yup' and 'nope'.  I have, however, heard controllers
!step out of their ATC persona when dealing with a wayward student
!pilot, or a pilot who doesn't know how to 'squawk ident'.
!
!I have often wondered whether controllers bring their work related
!speech patterns home with them.

It's not just controllers but pilots also. I frequently say

`Say again' and `Standby'

Dave Rogers
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: burke@tss.com (Jim Burke)
Subject: Re: Logging PIC (sorry ... sigh )
Keywords: PIC, logging
Reply-To: burke@tss.com (Jim Burke)
Organization: Teknekron Software Systems. Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 00:03:52 GMT

In article <BvEvyL.EoC@taligent.com>, cep@taligent.com (Christophe Pettus) writes:

|> The student pilot logs solo time.  Now, many logbooks include just one
|> column for both PIC and solo time, leading to even *more* confusion, as
|> if that wasn't enough already.  Technically, when applying for an
|> airman's certificate, you should separate out solo and PIC time, and
|> put them down appropriate.  However, the FAA mainly looks at the hours
|> for statistical purposes and to make sure that the minimum time
|> requirements for the rating have been met, and there are many even in
|> the FAA that don't understand FAR 61.51.

On the other hand, what do you report to your insurance company when
they ask for things like time in model, etc.?  For high-time pilots this
won't make any difference, but for lower time pilots an extra 60 hours could
make a difference in the premium.

Also, doesn't pre-PP-SEL time count toward the 125 hours required for the
instrument checkride?

-- 

	Jim Burke	"Life is uncertain - eat dessert first!"
	Teknekron Software Systems		... burke@tss.com
  	phone:(415) 617-2432			... uunet!tekbspa!burke
From: phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: To members of West Valley Flying Club
Date: 29 Sep 92 14:54:14 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University

West Valley is based at Palo Alto, right?  (I hope I got the name of
the club right).  If any members of that club know a club CFI with
the first name "Marq" (with a Q), tell him I said "hello".  I don't
remember his last name, but I know he works as a pilot flying Metros
for a west-coast commuter airline.  I met him on a United flight to
Baltimore recently.  It's a small world....

		William LeFebvre
		Computing Facilities Manager and Analyst
		Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
		Northwestern University
		<phil@eecs.nwu.edu>
Xref: sparky rec.aviation:16417 rec.aviation.misc:37
From: schneide@scubed.com (Steve Schneider)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: The things controllers know...
Date: 5 Oct 92 22:23:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: scubed.1992Oct5.222312.4701
Organization: S-CUBED, A Division of Maxwell Labs; San Diego CA

In article <1992Sep27.235555.1@pomona.claremont.edu> jhenderson@pomona.claremont.edu writes:
>>>DATE:   Thu, 24 Sep 1992 05:20:25 GMT
>>>FROM:   Geoff Peck <geoff@peck.com>
>> ...Amusing transponder story deleted...
>> 
>>>still not see us?  Apparently not.  The controller said "that's funny -- we
>>>could see you on the way up to dinner, but we aren't getting a readout
>>>now."  (Duh.  I guess these controllers really _do_ know what we do with
>>>light aircraft.  :-) )
>
>Indeed. Why, just on the last LCFI to SBA, when I contacted ground and
>requested progressive taxiing to the FBO at the end of the field near where
>the Elephant bar is, the dialog went more or less like this:
>
>Me: Cherokee 82864 requests progressive taxiing to [fbo name I forgot]
>
>Gnd: taxi across rwy 25, proceed to the first taxiway, make a right and
>     go all the way to the end, the Elephant bar is right there.
>
>Me: How did you know I was going there?
>
>Gnd: wild guess

I had a similar experience on the way to the LCFI.  I called ground at
Gillespie field to taxi for departure and the controller asked if we 
were on our way to Santa Barbara!  After my girl friend and I picked our 
jaws up off the floor I asked the controller how he knew where we were going.  

It turns out he is a net.lurker.  (If this ground controller reads this, send 
me email or give me a call -- I'll trade you a flight in my 140 for a tour 
of the tower :-).

Steve

-- 
__________________________________________________________________________
Stephen Schneider                 S-CUBED              3398 Carmel Mtn Rd.
schneide@scubed.com           (619) 587-7295           San Diego, CA 92121
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre)
Subject: Re: Rule Number One
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 17:10:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.194006.21455@midway.uchicago.edu>, thisted@galton.uchicago.edu (Ronald A. Thisted) writes:
|> Many people quote
|> >>(Amy Lindsay) who writes:
|> >>[...]
|> >>>	      NEVER FLY WHEN YOU'RE TIRED OR SHORT TEMPERED.
|> >>>
|> 
|> To which I might add, NEVER READ REC.AVIATION WHEN YOU'RE TIRED OR
|> SHORT TEMPERED. (Or if you do, don't post any followups :-)

Hey, that's a pretty good rule.  Maybe we could come up with some
kind of "IMSAFE" acronym for posting to rec.aviation!  :-)

		William LeFebvre
		Computing Facilities Manager and Analyst
		Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
		Northwestern University
		<phil@eecs.nwu.edu>
From: eric@ithaca.com (Eric Wagner)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: What makes a pilot fly? Money!
Date: 4 Oct 92 04:09:49 GMT
Organization: Ithaca Software


Well, on Friday I completed my checkride and got my PP-ASEL!
After discussing the details of the checkride with others, it
seems my oral test was generally more detailed than others had
received (despite a 98 on the written), and the flight check
was about average compared to others.  Regardless, things went
fairly well and [almost] without incident, despite the highly
unusual rain and cloud coverage for that time of day/year and
some insane winds in the area.

For any of those who are interested in pursuing this exciting
and expensive hobby, I have compiled the following statistics
covering day 1 to day PP.  Please note that this is OAK --
probably one of the most expensive (but interesting) places
to learn.  Numbers have been rounded for simplicity.  All
training was done in a Cessna 150 which rented for $44/hr wet.
Please note also that some things were not "required" (such
as buying my OWN $240 headset).  Finally, I have been told
that completion in only 52 hours is lower than average, which
was greatly due to a little prior knowledge and taking at
least 3 lessons per week.  Total training was over 11 calendar
weeks, minus 2 weeks for vacations and business.

Plane rental 52 hrs      = $2300
Flight instr 30 hrs      = $ 600
Ground instr 13 hrs      = $ 200

Misc (charts, supplies, 7 books, fees, medical, kneeboard,
      flashlites, flightbag, sunglasses, flying club membership,
      FAA badge, D/C headset, test fees)    = $1000

***** Grand total   = $4100  *****

-- 
Eric Wagner
Ithaca Software
eric@ithaca.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: mtanner@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Michael C. Tanner)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Homebuilt accidents (was: A conversation with an FAA accident inspector)
Date: 5 Oct 92 22:17:47 GMT
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Virginia, USA

In article <1992Oct2.021027.27170@selway.umt.edu> cap@selway.umt.edu (Charles A. Smith) writes:
   I can't believe that
   most *anything* occurs in homebuilts.  I appeal to Bayes!  There simply
   aren't enough of them, are there?  What ARE the comparative accident
   stats for certificated vs. homebuilt aircraft?

I can't give you all the necessary numbers, but according to the Air Safety
Foundation's GA Accident Analysis Book, there were 874 homebuilt accidents
between 1982 and 1988, out of a total of 16,529 GA accidents.

To establish relative risk you need to decide on the ever-controversial
base-line -- number of aircraft, flying hours, passenger miles, departures,
etc.  I don't know what any of those are for homebuilts vs. factory-builts.

But I don't think anyone would call 5% "most", so at least one FAA inspector
is certainly wrong that "most" accidents occur in homebuilts.  If he meant to
say, "you are most likely to have an accident" in a homebuilt, then we don't
have data to support or refute that, and I doubt if he does either.  What he
probably meant was, "I am concerened that homebuilts are not safe, so I
remember all their accidents while the rest become a blur."

-- mike
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: markf@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Mark Foster)
Subject: Airliner tyre life ?
Organization: University of Sussex
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:31:38 GMT


Does anyone have any information as to how long a set of tyres on an
aircraft such as a 747 or an A320 would last.

How many landings can they withstand before they are replaced. ???

Please E-Mail direct rather than post since this is really only to
settle a disagreement here.

Mark
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There are no such useless words as 'I didn't have a chance'"... Driving, HMSO
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Mark Foster, Computing Service  |         markf@syma.sussex.ac.uk          |
| University of Sussex, Falmer.   |         markf@central.sussex.ac.uk       |
| England. +44 273 606755 x8096   |                                          |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Driving on a busy motorway is like flying in close formation - with strangers"
... RAF fighter pilot during an advanced driving course.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jle@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jer/ Eberhard)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 15:03:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Rule Number One
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.aviation


Seen at Lyn Clark's flight office in McCall, Idaho:

"If the weather briefing disturbs you,
 what makes you think that flying will calm you?"

BTW, coming soon to a rec.aviation node near you, a report on:

Joel and Jer/'s Excellent Adventure:
  Getting instruction in flying the Idaho Backcountry Airstrips

Jer/ Eberhard, (SLASH), HAM = N0FZD     | Hewlett-Packard - MS99, 1UP10,15'East
Pilot: COMM, INST, CFI-Airplane & Glider| 3404 East Harmony Road (303) 229-2861
CAP CFI, Check & Mission, Pikes Peak 218| Fort Collins, Colorado  80525-9599 
EMAIL:  jle@fc.hp.com or Jer_Eberhard@fc.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation