HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Time (Was: Family Values (long))
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:18:03 GMT
Organization: Eris's Restaurant

In article <BxKoLp.AK2@news.udel.edu> seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore) writes:
>In article <BxKCr1.Ay8@cck.coventry.ac.uk> idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>>Come on over, and I'll help you get it down to my mid-teens percentage...

>Omigod.  That is almost unbelievable.  Not to pry but how many questions
>were on that particular test?  I have stooped to the 30's on the 100 question,
>44 on the 400, but mid teens?!?  Again not to pry, but did anything include
>animals? :>

I do believe it was either the 400 or the 500 question test.  I haven't had
the energy to do the 10000...

Dropped from the low twenties within the last six months, mostly due to
my darling Justin... and I call myself "Deflowerer of innocents"!  Sheesh!

Animals?  But of course! (remember, technicalities count).  I'll not say
more in a public forum.

>Awfully tempting to come visit though, quite a boat ride.

Quite a ride, certainly :)

>Jim, (44%, even though I am a "virgin" to both sexes:)
>(O boy, I can hear the questions already):>

That's interesting.  Presumably fantastically varied masturbation and
far too many drugs... but still, that's low for a virgin.  Or are you
using the "technicalities count" clause?

				Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
From: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: New Age Androgynous Bisexuals...
Date: 6 Nov 92 15:46:49
Organization: Natural Language Incorporated
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu


In article <Bx8o98.9E@dcs.ed.ac.uk> pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley) writes:
>I have this problem with the bi network generally; most of the people
>around are into some form of mysticism and the ones remaining are
>obnoxious anarcho-capitalists like Graham.
[...]
>I don't expect everyone to be as
>extreme a materialist as me 

Well, I'm pretty sure I get the idea of what mysticism is.  Being
rather politically out-of-it, though, I have no idea what an
anarcho-capitalist or a materialist is.  Can anyone explain?  I'd like
to know what my choices of pigeonholes are...*grin*...kind of reminds me
of airline food...2-3 choices, none of them sounding all that appetizing
from the names...

Muffy
--

Muffy Barkocy                               muffy@mica.berkeley.edu
~Weavers' fingers flying on the loom/patterns shift too fast to be
 discerned/all these years of thinking/ended up like this/in front
 of all this beauty/understanding nothing~ - Bruce Cockburn
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Sandra Bernhart
Date: 12 Nov 92 22:22:39 GMT
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.

In article <1992Nov12.005139.19864@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> hansene@goose.cps.msu.edu (E.J.H.) writes:
>Did anyone see the story about Sandra Bernhart on NBC tuesday
>night? I had to take a phone call so I missed part of it.
>Did she come out or what? She talked a bit about her

Come out?  I thought she was always out?  Last time I saw her
interviewed here (in London) it was one of those late-night live things,
and she was just about to rush off to do a show at a GLB club.

G
-- 
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: tmo@harry.engin.umich.edu (Tanya M Ollick)
Subject: Re: Finally Doing It ... Coming Out
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 14:18:08 EST
Organization: University of Michigan (CAEN)
Originator: tmo@harry.engin.umich.edu


In article <xFA=F1-@engin.umich.edu>, rowe@engin.umich.edu (Steven Rowe) writes:
> Roy,
> I'd send this as e-mail, but 1) My mailer is FUBAR and 2) Other comers-
> out might be (and probably are) out there.
> In a post about a month ago, I gave some advice to someone else on
> soc.bi (she's actually here in Ann Arbor).  I haven't heard her reaction
> to my advice, but that's sort of what one gets for giving free advice on
> the net.
> 
> [stuff deleted]
>

To all those that responded, I do apologize for not thanking you (and I thank you now) for the advice. Due to unusual amounts of work, I've not been keeping up with my posts, but I've read every item and am caught up now.

Personally, I've decided not to go home this year for either Thanksgiving or Christmas, but not just because of the "coming out" issue. I'll deal with coming out next spring (and queue up behind Roy in the "I need a hug" posting).

For all those who wish to come out over the holidays, I'll be thinking of you and looking forward to your posts. It's a wonderful feeling to "take the plunge," tell someone, and have them accept it at face value. 

*sigh* I'm starting to babble. Sorry.

TMO
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden)
Subject: Re: Finally Doing It ... Coming Out
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 07:36:14 EST

winsor@geek.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (js) writes:

> |> Yes, I certainly have this feeling.  For me it seems to
> |> happen when I have not really been able to express my interest in
> |> both men and women.  Like when I spend alot of time with lesbians, then
> |> I kind of begin to feel like I am about to go on a man frenzy.  My ration-
> |> alization is - when I am in an atmosphere where expressing interest in bot
> |> and women is  encouraged then this feeling of wanting a particular
> |> gender goes away.
> |> 
> |> At the same time I am not sure that I really believe this, because
> |> one of the reasons that I freak out about longterm monogamy is the
> |> thought of not being able to have sex with the other gender.  
> |> 
> |> Iseult.
> 
> Then change your definition of monogamy.
> js

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Conley)
Subject: Re: I am not a white male. (was: PC)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 19:16:56 GMT

In article <MUFFY.92Nov9102614@remarque.berkeley.edu> muffy@remarque.berkeley.e
du (Muffy Barkocy) writes:
>In article <1992Nov9.165221.2518@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> sconley@magnus.acs
.ohio-state.edu (S. Conley) writes:
>> I am not a white male as far as any of you are concerned.  The details of
>> my person are irrelevent to the Net.
>
>Do you mean to say that your ideas have absolutely nothing to do with
>the sort of person you are?  

I mean that the validity of my ideas has nothing to do with the sort of
person I am.  If I make a statement, you can't dispute it on the basis
of my personal characteristics.  Take a course in logic (do they still
teach logic at Berkeley?) and you'll find, if I am not mistaken, that
that is called an "ad hominem" argument and is _not_ valid.

Steve Conley
sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: tmo@harry.engin.umich.edu (Tanya M Ollick)
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 13:27:12 EST
Organization: University of Michigan (CAEN)
Originator: tmo@harry.engin.umich.edu


In article <1992Nov9.232137.11236@ctp.com>, sthor@ctp.com (Sarah Thornburg) writes:
> Wow! what a warm welcome I've recieved.  Thanks.
> 
> Just one question, at the risk of being obviously naive:
> 
> WHAT THE HELL IS A MUFFIN????????
> 
> 
> *Sarah*  :)
> 

A muffin is someone who has never posted. By posting, you've become an
ex-muffin and eligible for all this attention.

TMO (naive herself, but learning fast)
From: latarra@camelot.bradley.edu (Lisa Ehren)
Subject: Re: accidently out
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 12 Nov 92 02:16:19 GMT

In <28005@castle.ed.ac.uk> moragw@castle.ed.ac.uk (Alloy Serving Woman) writes:
>       Well, here goes.

<deleted story of "outing">

>When they left, after big hugs and dad's usual contribution to the poor
>student daughter fund, I felt really unnerved.  They know about me and
>they're politely leaving me to talk about it if I want to, not forcing
>me or anything, which is great, I suppose.  So why does it feel so
>stomach churningly weird ?  Don't know what else to say, just wanted to
>share my feelings, maybe get some reassurances.

The first thing that I thought of when I read your question was "What if
they don't care?"  I mean, it doesn't seem to be the case in your family
<what extremely little I've read about it>, but I know that if my parents
ignored my bisexuality once they found out, I'd be wondering if they really
cared about me enough to care about "it".

But back to you.  Is this an important part of your life?  Maybe you feel
that they aren't making enough of a deal out of it, that it isn't as
important to them as you think it should be.
Or, it could be positive, like you expected them to be upset, but they're
actually accepting, so you're not sure if these are really "your parents"
that are being so cool...:)

Enough armchair psychology for me.
*hugs*
Lisa
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: orc@amber.uchicago.edu (David Parsons)
Subject: Re: Altruism (was: two men)
Reply-To: orc@amber.uchicago.edu
Organization: Department of Catastrophes
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 08:26:16 GMT

In article <BxCLw9.I1r@ibmpcug.co.uk> gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham
Toal) provides some history of the definition:
|:In article <BxBM10.221@ibmpcug.co.uk> gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham
|:|Toal) provides a definition of altruism:
|:|Altruism is where the positive value of self-satisfaction from the act done
|:|outweighs the negative concrete value to yourself of the action.  I dispute
|:|that true altruism - where you do something to your detriment, voluntarily,
|:|*and feel bad about it* exists.
|It's a paraphrase from what I remember of Dawkin's books on selfish genes;
|basically that altruism and selfishness are the same, and the perceived
|differences come from 'altruists' giving a higher weighting to the value
|of satisfaction earned from doing the acts.

   Aha.  This is a wide different.  As I see it, there's a certain
degree of self-interest involved in almost any altruistic behavior
(even to the point of a soldier throwing himself on a grenade to
keep his mates from being blown to bits) but it more likely to be
expanded to an interest in keeping _other_ things safe, too. 

   (For example, I was moderately active in resisting the Vietnam
war when I was a child.  Admittedly, there was very little chance
that I would have been at risk in the war, because it petered out
when I was 12-13, and the circles which my family and friends moved
were in the class that didn't get drafted (I grew up in the USA,
which got cannon fodder in the old-fashioned way), but still, the
war was *wrong* and needed to be resisted.  The immediate risk to
me of these actions was, I dunno, a nice little addition to the
Parsons family FBI file, and the gain? I can't think of anything,
if you disregard the lives saved by stopping the war, and repairing
the damage to the moral fibre of the USA, which would be obvious.)

   There are impolite words that can be used to describe people
that only do things for their gain.  "sociopath" comes to mind as a
nice one.

                 ____
   david parsons \bi/ e-slut
                  \/
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver)
Subject: Re: New Age Androgynous Bisexuals...
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 03:28:37 GMT

gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:

>No, that is *precisely* the sort of woolly PC thinking that has totally
>disenchanted me with this group.  As Heinlein had Lazarus Long say
>in one of his notebooks, 'if you meet someone who professes to be an
>intellectual, ask them what they think of astrology'.

If you mean someone who professes to be an intellectual (not me!), ask kir
what ke thinks of Heinlein! I mean, Lazarus Long and Heinlein's other can-do
hero(ine)s are so much more believable than astrology. paa.

Heinlein's ethical stance is deeply flawed and logically inconsistent. For
"woolly thinking", I find his dogmatic rants excellent examples. He is better
with simple stories.

> That sort of
>irrational claptrap should be dismissed out of hand (along with religion
>of any sort, but hey - one flame war at a time is enough no?)

<shrug> I don't profess a credal religion. And Heinlein himself admitted that
his big fat books were somewhat influenced in an undesirable manner by a brain
tumour.

>I am sick of being told that because I'm a member of an 'oppressed group'
>that I should automatically side with all sorts of people with whom i
>have nothing in common. 

<nod> That is claptrap. A woman who identifies as lesbian, but is pitying
enough to suffer a boyfriend as well as her girlfriend has the face to
lecture to two of my housemates (straight) on how they should support the
action week in which she is involved. It would help if she were honest
about her own orientation. And yes, she did say "I'm really bisexual, but I
identify as lesbian". I have very little in common with her. 

 > I make my mind up about 'PC' issues on
>each case, on its merits, not simply follow the party line.  I say
>again, I have no time whatsoever for people who have the intelligence
>to know better, who indulge in blatantly irrational beliefs like
>dowsing maps with pendulums, predicting the future with chicken guts,
>or tarot cards, or believing that the dead will rise from the grave on
>the day of judgement.

Well, it would help if you defined your targets before blasting them. And I
can see no problem at all with people believing these things. I don't, but
it doesn't make them unable to function in the general consensus reality.

>I must say, I'm really impressed by the way this group has (ahem) bent
>over backwards to indulge all sorts of bigots and loudmouths 

Well, I do try very hard in your case, but I guess I prefer tolerant people,
or at least those who argue a point rather than bashing a point of view
purely because they are above such primitive stances.

As for the rest, Ciran can defend himself. Humourously too, I might add.  

Tanaqui

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (S. Conley)
Subject: Re: I am not a white male. (was: PC)
Originator: sconley@magnusug.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Organization: ASCII Characters Liberation Front
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:52:21 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.044820.6874@leland.Stanford.EDU> mlloyd@westmark.Stanford.
EDU (Mike Lloyd) writes:
>
>I am not interested in attacking you, especially on grounds of your sex
>and race.  I am interested in the rights, complaints, and problems of
>other groups, and for this reason I defend PC-speak.  White men hold
>most of the power in out society; this does not invalidate what they
>say, but it is worth noting that fact along with listening to their
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>opinions, IMHO.
 ^^^^^^^^

I am not a white male as far as any of you are concerned.  The details of
my person are irrelevent to the Net.  That's why this is such a great
forum--you must attack my views and the way I present them, not me and
whatever groups I may or may not be a member of.  So no, Mike, I am not
a white male.  I am a collection of ASCII characters on your screen.  If
you want to write, "So speaks the collection of ASCII characters on my
screen," I have no problem with that.

Besides, an opinion is an opinion, regardless of its origins.  "So speaks
an X" is just a dodge.

S. Conley
sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Finally Doing It ... Coming Out
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:11:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Nov12.201110.6529
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Followup-To: soc.bi
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu

In article <MUFFY.92Nov10110212@remarque.berkeley.edu> 
 muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:
>It's not exactly this, but I have been having a very weird experience
>along these lines lately.  Ever since looking into the eyes of the
>beautiful woman in our philosophy class, I've been thinking about (and
>lusting after) all the attractive women I have met.  Somehow, I just
>seem to want "a woman."  In the past, I have wanted *specific* people,
>or I have wanted "sex in general" (*grin*), but I've never had this
>feeling of wanting the in-between "sex with someone of a particular
>gender."
>
>Anyone else ever run into this?  It's kind of fun, but feels very odd
>all the same...

Well, I think I've mentioned this before -- when I am involved with/infatuated
with someone of a given sex I seem to pay more attention to their sex
in general. Usually, swings of this nature tend to take a time scale of
months -- though hugging the right people tends to remind me quickly why
I am bi ;)

As for wanting sex -- as opposed to paying attention -- I'm not so sure.
There is always masturbation to deal with simple hornyness -- what I
feel left over is "skin hunger" -- a desire to be touched which
ranges from sensual to sexual, but is not very gender-specific.









-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
 alunde@nuacvm.bitnet |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Conley)
Subject: Re: New Age Androgynous Bisexuals...
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 02:25:47 GMT

In article <BxD7JB.wn@dcs.ed.ac.uk> pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley) writes:
>>I still think your signature is crazy.  You're saying "I'm the boy
>>without a non-existent thing", no?  Surely we're *all* without all
>>non-existent things...
>
>It's from "Inject me" on "This is the Day... This is the Hour... This is
>THIS!" by Pop Will Eat Itself: "I'm the boy without a soul, no hot love,
>no worldly goal, inject me... cut the lights and shut the doors, use,
>abuse, take me I'm yours, inject me..."

:-)

But you know, Paul, they're fighting back.  I just saw a CD full of
tekno remixes of ABBA hits in the store last week.  There's just no
escape...

Steve
sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Bisexual Anarchocapitalist Industrial Fiend Ohioan
Pagan Astrologer in Training
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: No one ever sends me any hugs
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 04:14:11 GMT

In article <1dhlp6INNnbj@network.ucsd.edu> thom@crayfish.ucsd.edu (Thom Cleland) writes:
>Now that's some hug!  Can the voucher also be redeemed for hugs to
>right-side-up people?

Actually, I think it's significant that the first person to spot that I'd
done it upside down was <down-under>.  Maybe they *do* all stand on their
heads :-)   If it really rankles you I blasted it through an editor macro
to reverse line-order, and swap (){}_~ for )(}{|_  -- copies on request :-)

G
-- 
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: sa121@cl.cam.ac.uk (S. Arrowsmith)
Subject: Re: accidently out
Reply-To: SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk (S. Arrowsmith)
Organization: Glad to be Sad
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 13:16:36 GMT

In article <28005@castle.ed.ac.uk> moragw@castle.ed.ac.uk (Alloy Serving Woman) writes:
>
> [ Stuff about parents accidently finding out about sexuality cut ]
> [ (To save bandwidth and I couldn't find a bit which meant much
     out of context) ]
>
My parents have never made a great deal of fuss about my sexuality --
but it's not the sort of family where we communicate very well (despite
being quite close emotionally).  In fact, my father has never mentioned
it (he must know, although *I*'ve not told him, I'm sure my mother has,
and he's seen my room with pink triangle decoration, and met both my
ex-boyfriends) and my mother's only really brought the subject up 
(other than in reference to relationships) in the context of how it
interacts with my slightly dodgy mental state of the moment.  Quite
honestly, I prefer it like this -- I'm not being rejected (for which
I am *very* grateful right now) and I don't have to address any awkward
questions which might be posed if they did get overly concerned.  The
basis is that they trust me to be fairly sensible with my life, and
aren't going to go snooping around where it's not wanted.  In addition,
I'm not a political beast, so issues of sexuality don't feature very
prominently on my agenda, so there's not really anything there to
talk about.  Perhaps your parents don't feel the need to intrude on
this part of your life?

Maybe the strange aftertaste from the meeting was a result of half-
expecting some big confrontational issue, and this not happening --
being let down, in a sense.  I don't know -- I wanted to come out
to my mother, and it was just a sense of relief when I did.

(PS: Does "Alloy Serving Woman" mean "Woman who serves alloys" or 
     "Woman of alloy who serves"?  What alloys?  What service????)

--
\S
SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk   | There's nowt |"And in this moment, I need to be needed
sarrowsm@nyx.cs.du.edu| so queer as  |"When my self-esteem is sinking,
                      | folk....     |"I like to be liked" -- Peter Gabriel
From: mlloyd@westmark.Stanford.EDU (Mike Lloyd)
Subject: Re: PC (was Re: New Age Androgynous Bisexuals...)
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 04:48:20 GMT

sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Conley) writes:
: mlloyd@westmark.Stanford.EDU (Mike Lloyd) writes:
: >sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Conley) writes:
: >:Liberation is not "Don't say bad things about me."  Liberation is "Fuck 
: >:you, I don't care what you think."  That's why PC-speak is so stupid.
: >
: >So speaks a white male.
: 
: So speaks a human being.  So types a human hand.  So thinks a human mind.
: This "white male" crap is not worthy of a response.  I will not have what
: I say devalued because of my race and my gender.  Sexist!  Racist!  I puke
: on your PC-ness, since it's so obviously a lie.

But I think it is worth of response.  Like I said, calling you a white
male is not an attack, since I do not feel it is a bad thing to be
white, or to be male.  I'd be a hypocrite if I did.  What I was doing
was observing the strong correlation between the logic you used, and
white males.  Do you deny this connection?  Do you deny that it is of
interest?

I am not interested in attacking you, especially on grounds of your sex
and race.  I am interested in the rights, complaints, and problems of
other groups, and for this reason I defend PC-speak.  White men hold
most of the power in out society; this does not invalidate what they
say, but it is worth noting that fact along with listening to their
opinions, IMHO.

Now, shall we try this again?  I think it is of the utmost importance to
be "politically" correct; that includes, as far as language goes, using
a form which is less oppressive, which does not reinforce the blatant
unfairness of the world we live in.  You appear to think otherwise.  You
say, correctly, that those who can say "Fuck you" to their oppressors
are free.  Agreed.  I say there are people who cannot say this, and we
should change the way we behave because of that, be it from the personal
level of language through to the state level of legislative
intervention.  What is your argument against this, other than "doing a
Bush?" :-)

reserved hugs, if wanted
Mike
-- 
Mike Lloyd, B0/1 h- f- t w- g+ k+ s m- e? |    "Bloody nose and burning eyes
      Retro-hippy, music nut, bi and      |  Raised in laughter to the skies"
          backrubber of devotion          |                 - Bruce Cockburn
               --The end of confusion is the beginning of death--