HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: horen@netcom.com (Jonathan B. Horen -- [408] 736-3923)
Subject: Re: Jewish joke
Keywords: stereotypes
Organization: NetCom -- OnLine Communication Services
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:39:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.161110.203413@uctvax.uct.ac.za> naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>
>Over here in South Africa I have encountered a bizarre stereotype myth that
>Jews have names like Seymour, Sydney, Irwin. Good grief - surely these are
>snotty Anglo-Saxon names not Jewish names. This stereotype makes no sense
>in South Africa since most Jews either have Hebrew names or run of the mill
>English names. But thats the thing about stereotypes, people believe them
>despite evidence to the contrary.

Yes; one of my best friends is a South-African Jew (we worked together in
Israel, and now live a stone's-throw apart here in Silicon Valley) whose
name is Cecil.

As for "...stereotypes, people believe them despite evidence to the
contrary", I think that what has happened is that the majority of s.c.j.
netters are here or from-here (the US), and that the majority of Jewish
stereotypes have also originated here (the US) [with the obvious
exceptions of Elders-of-Zion and other negative goyische stereotypes of
Jews].

As for "...run-of-the-mill English names", this goes hand-in-hand with
having a separate language for the home (Yiddish), for the street (English),
and for the Beit Kenesset/Midrash (Hebrew) -- and, if we can borrow a
page from the 1960s US Civil Rights movement, those "run-of-the-mill
English names" are no different than what was (then) referred-to as
"slave names" (Cassis Clay vs. Muhammad Ali), so `Sammy' at work is
also `Shmulik' at home is also `Shmuel ben Ploni' in shul. These kind
of "slave names" allowed (and continue to do so) *us* to determine the
basis on which the non-Jewish would relate to us (if only initially, or
until they found/find out that we are Jewish).

The only problem with Seymour, Sidney, Max, Hi (et al) is that over the
years they've been "outed" :-)


Jonathan B. Horen       | A man should not strive to eliminate his complexes,
SysAdmin/SrTechWriter   | but to get in accord with them; they are 
Tel: (408) 736-3923     | legitimately what directs his conduct in the world.
Email: horen@netcom.com |                     -- Sigmund Freud
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout)
Subject: Re: Israel's deportation of over 400 Palestinians
Keywords: human rights civil rights Israel Palestinians
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:19:07 GMT

In <1gt2k7INNjkm@mizar.usc.edu> srose@mizar.usc.edu (Steve Rose) writes:

>Israel's deportation of over 400 Palestinians is ...

Please keep this to talk.politics.mideast.  


--
Eli Chiprout                 
Dept. of Electronics, 
Carleton University, Canada
emc@doe.carleton.ca                                     
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Re: Jewish STEREOTYPES - the last time
Organization: People's Front of Judea
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 02:29:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.020153.3193@netcom.com> madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann) writes:
>mk568652@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Mitchell Kotler) writes: >
>
>>Fine, I won't post anymore  private E-mail.
>>Now I know.  I'm ready to have a normal debate.  That means you
>>Mr. Miller, but not M.H. (you know who you are, you're much too intelligent
>>for me!)
>
>Aww, no fair.  I came here for an argument!

I'm sorry, this is *abuse*! Arguments are in 7a, across the hall.
-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"SILENCE = QUIET"
                --Girljock Magazine
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hem@warlock.col400.att.com (Hillel Markowitz)
Subject: Kashrus Alert
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <hem@warlock.col400.att.com (Hillel Markowitz)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:15:44 GMT

The following Kashrus Alerts from the Baltimore Agudas Yisroael
newsletter is likely to be of interest.

1. When the OU appears on cereal boxes with promotional items in them,
the promotional items are also OU certified.

2. Aunt Jemima Frozen Blueberry Waffles ARE OU certified even if the OU
does not appear on the box

3. Kool Aid Kool Bursts ARE reccommended by the Baltimore Vaad
Hakashrus.

4. Klein's Real Kosher Cherry Twin Pops have both Parve and Cholov
Yisrael (dairy) markings.  They are PARVE.

And now for the bad news.

5.  General Mills Cinnamon Toast Crunch contains a small amount of
dairy ingredients and are now OU-D (dairy).  (NOT cholov yisrael).

6. Starkist Tuna that does not have an OU on the label is NOT OU
certified.

7. Diet Workshop Energizer Bars have an UNauthorized OK

8. Kraft Grape Jelly in a jar shaped like a snowman has an UNauthorized
OK-pareve

9. K&Z Pickle Products (makers of mayonnaise, pepperoni, mustard, &
sauerkraut) have an UNauthorized Star-K.  ONLY the pickles and tomatoes
are Star-K approved (Baltimore Vaad Hakashrus).

10.  Pepperidge Farm Goldfish Cheddar Cheese Crackers and Goldfish
Parmesan Crackers have an UNauthorized OU.

11. Ken's Light Honey Mustard Vinaigrette & Spicy Italian Dressings
have an UNauthorized OU.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: SCJ HAS BEEN DECONTAMINATED!
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 02:18:24 GMT

Not all Jews for Jesus and Messianic Jews (I believe they consier
themselves different but from my perspective they're both just
Christians masquerading themselves as furthering a peculiar brand of
Judaism) failed to have a decent Jewish education.

Unfortunately, I have a cousin who had one of the best Jewish
educations in the family, and turned into one of them.  Of course, he
was also a little bit mixed up.
-- 
Alan H. Stein   -----  AJIN   -----  astein@israel.nysernet.org
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: scruggs@zeus.franklin.edu (Kevin Scruggs)
Subject: Re: Irreconcialable differences...
Organization: Franklin University (Columbus, OH)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 00:03:38 GMT

In article <1gb0o1INNqqb@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman) writes:
>
>   And finally, the concept of God crucifying his own son for the
>sins of any other person, let alone all of humanity, is, from the 
>Jewish point of view, totally unacceptable.  It flies in the face
>of everything that is important in Judasim.  Judaism teaches that
>salvation is achievable by how one behaves.  In Judaism, even the
>atheist who behaves in a decent and kind manner will have a place
>in the world to come.  
>
	This is interesting. I always thought of Judaism as the basic core of 
Christianity (and Islam). My mother felt the need to force me to go to church 
against my will after I no longer considered myself christian out of some 
misguided concern for my alleged soul...
	The more I find out about Judiasm the more it seems I never knew 
anything about it... I would like to know what judaism has to say about the 
concept of a 'covenant' as a formalized contract with god. This idea is being batted about in alt.atheist in a thread comparing the old/new testaments...

>   If, as Judaism teaches, one can achieve salvation by behavior,
>then Jesus would have died for nothing.  And herein lies why Jews
>can never accept Christianity.  This is not to be regarded as any
>sort of value judgement of Christianity, for it is not.  Consider
>this simply a statement as to why Christianity cannot find common
>ground with Judaism.  It hopefully will shed some light on why we
>Jews find Christian proselytising so offensive.
>
>


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: muskudar@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (Michael Uskudarli)
Subject: What one man means to the mass...
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 23:22:41 GMT

   I was discussing with a friend about Jesus and what he means to the 
three main monotheistic religions. For muslims he is someone who will
come back to complete his mission and establish a Muslim world.
Supposedly, every prophet has one wish from god that will be granted.
For Moses it was to see God for exaple. And for Jesus it is to be
a member of Muhammad's Ummat. 
  For Christians it pretty much is the same with the exception that 
his purpose will to be complete his biblical-time mission and save
those who followed him.
  For Jews, - I hope I am not off and sincerely apologize if I am-
He will make his first appearence (name may not be Jesus of course, in
fact isn't he known plainly as Messiah?) and will come solely for Jews
and to bring about their kingdom.

Isn;t it interesting that one man means three completely different
things to three different masses? 
I would like to know, if I may, what Jewish people expect of their Messiah
and some prophecies about apocalypse. I want to compare it to the other
religions. Also, hoe do you respond to claims by Muslims that the
book "tawrat" given to Moses was pure but has been corrupted by
Jews over time.For instance, Koran has Solomon as a Prophet and I believe
Jews hold him to be a King. Is that right?


ps: I will be leaving for Christmas break soon so An advance thanks to
all those who responded to my inquiries. They were great in both
quantity and quality. 

Happy Holidays...

Michael.

ps 2: If anyone wants to respond please do so before Sunday Dec 20 so I can 
read them before I leave.
From: engelson-sean@cs.yale.edu (Sean Philip Engelson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: To all Jews: STOP the negative Jewish
Date: 17 Dec 1992 12:08:29 -0500
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: argentina.ai.cs.yale.edu

In article <emc.724551265@reg>, emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout) writes:
|> madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann) writes:
|> >CPLS13@email.mot.com (Steven_Cohn) writes: >>
|> >yaffe@icd.teradyne.com (Art Yaffe) wrote: >> >
|> >emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout) writes: >> >>
|> >madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann) writes: >> >> >
|> >>> >
|> >>> >>   Jews like to argue
|> >>> >
|> >>> >They do not!
|> >>> 
|> >>> Do SO!
|> >>
|> >>DO NOT!
|> 
|> >This isn't an argument!  It's just contradiction!
|> 
|> >IS NOT!
|> 
|> >It is so!  An argument is a carefully reasoned
|> >series of propositions leading to a conclusion!
|> 
|> >IS NOT!
|> 
|> >It most certainly is!  It isn't the simple gainsaying
|> >of any statment with "No, it isn't!"
|> 
|> >YES IT IS!
|> 
|> a.  The above is typically british humor
|> b.  British humor is difficult to understand
|> c.  Things difficult to understand are usually wrong.
|> d.  Things usally wrong are almost always wrong.
|> e.  Things almost always wrong are inevitably wrong.
|> f.  a+b+c+d+e -> The above is inevitably wrong.
|> g.  Jews are sometimes wrong.
|> h.  Jews like to point out other Jews that are wrong.
|> i.  g+h+f -> Jews will point out that the above argument is wrong.
|> j.  Jews argue about wrong things.
|> k.  Wrong things inevitably result when Jews argue.
|> 
|> Therefore: By argument, wrong Jews like to point out that other Jews
|>     are wrong which inevitably results in wrong things, including
|>     the above argument.

*** YOU ARE WRONG!!!!! ***

-- 
Sean Philip (Shlomo) Engelson		
Yale Department of Computer Science	
Box 2158 Yale Station			
New Haven, CT 06520			
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: Entertaining suggestions for responses to "Merry Christmas"
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:27:37 GMT

When someone wishes me Merry Christmas, I always try to reply with the
famous aggadic tale of how the angel got on top of the Christmas tree.

Oh.  I though you'd never ask.

Once upon a time, Santa was busy packing toys, and one of the elves
entered:

Elf:  Santa, Santa!  Come look at the beautiful tree we elves have decorated!

Santa:  Look, I just don't have time now.  I've got all these toys to pack
  for the little boys and girls.  Go away!

The elf was disappointed.  On the way out, he saw Mrs. Santa:

Elf:  Mrs. Santa, do you think you could get Santa to look at the
   tree we've decorated?

MS:  Of course.  (entering Santa's workshop)

MS:  Santa, the elves have been working so hard at decorating the 
  tree.  Come look at it!

Santa:  Dammit, I've got all these toys to pack.  Stop bothering me
   with this stupid tree nonsense.

Mrs. Santa left the room, surprised at Santa'a short temper, and attributing
    it to the pressure of the season.  On the way out, she saw a little
    angel, and she knew that Santa would not be able to refuse her request.
    So Mrs.  Santa asked the angel to get Santa to look at the tree.

Angel: (entering the workshop)  Santa, Santa!  The elves have done such
   a wonderful job on their tree.  Come look at  it.

Santa:  That damned treee AGAIN?!!!  Look, you can take that damned
   tree and shove it up your @%&#.

And that is the story of how the angel got on top of the Christmas tree!


-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: atonement thru death of righteous person
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 19:44:51 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.190531.7158@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>
>In connection with the notion of a generational 'righteous person'
>see also Andre Schwarz-Bart's wonderful and moving novel, "The
>Last of the Just."

Ditto.  This is available in English.

The legend is there are always (at least) twice Chai - 36 --
righteous people in this world, for whose sake the world is
not destroyed.  (36 in Hebrew: lamed vav -  hence the term
"lamed vavniks" to designate these righteous people.)
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: JforJ ad in Newsweek
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:28:45 GMT

In <1992Dec18.195719.14563@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David
Sternlight) writes:

>There's been a good deal of discussion of the notion that the child of
>a Jewish mother is a Jew, and thus some Jews for Jesus are Jews.

[...]

>According to other halachic principles, by becoming a JfJ a Jew has,
>so to speak, excommunicated himself. Thus he can no longer claim to
>be a Jew. (This is based on a VERY incomplete understanding of
>halacha--others with more knowledge please chime in.).

I don't have more knowledge, but I'll chime in anyway! :-)

I think that Jews who convert to another religion are still Jews, but
occupy the special position of the apostate.  From what I understand,
apostates cannot take part in Jewish rituals or be buried in a Jewish
cemetary unless they return to Judaism first.  I'm not sure what is
involved in returning - I think it's a ritual similar to conversion.

The fact that some "Jews for Jesus (sic)" are Jews just points out the
obvious fact that most J4J's are NOT Jewish at all, not even by the
strict maternal descent definition.  J4J is nothing but a fraud
designed to convert Jews who would not succumb to honest methods.

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________
From: shawn@up.hep.upenn.edu (Shawn Ruby)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: JforJ ad in Newsweek
Date: 16 Dec 92 19:05:43 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

Anybody see that Jews for Jesus ad in Newsweek?  They must have more money than I
thought to pay for a full page spread like that.

Shawn Ruby
From: naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: THEY DIDN'T PIERCE (was The Crucifiction Prophecy)
Date: 15 Dec 92 17:04:22 +0200
Keywords: Yoshke Panderics licht in drerd, oizgetzeigen vi a ferd.
Organization: University of Cape Town

In article <1992Dec11.155744.28722@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk>, ucakrvb@ucl.ac.uk (Vijay Bhuchar) writes:
> A number of you have already asked me about the so called Crucifixion
> prophecy.  It is Psalm 22.
> 
> The key line is : THEY HAVE PIERCED MY HANDS AND FEET
> 
> When the first Christian Jews pointed this out in the first Century
> the sages said NO! It says LIKE A LION, MY HANDS AND FEET
> that is to say they changed the pointing.  But 300 years beforehand
> the Tenach was translated into Greek with this line intact - the point being
> that scripture was oral at that time as well as written so that no one can
> argue about it.


The Jews firmly believed that one should never change the contents of the
Bible. Consequently, the claim that Jews altered the text is totally false.
Moreover, no matter what vowel points one puts in, one cannot get the verse
to read "they pierced".

Christians and Gentiles never had any prohibition against fiddling the Bible to
get it to say what they wanted. The Greek translations of the Bible were
altered continually. I might be wrong but as far as I recall, we do not have
any preserved Greek translations of the Tanach dating back before the middle
ages. The word which Christians translate as they pierced is spelled
Kaph-Aleph-Reish-Yud. Anyone familiar with Hebrew will see that this can never
mean they pierced. The verse says something like "Like a lion at my hands and
feet."

> 
> Look at the other lines: ALL MY BONES ARE OUT OF JOINT
> This describes a man hung from a cross.

Like flipping hell it does! Where is a cross mentioned? It sounds more like a
person beaten up or streched on a rack. Why would someone nailed to a cross have
there bones out of joint?

> 
> I CAN COUNT ALL MY BONES
> This describes a skeleton


So what????
(I can also count my bones and I'm not a skeleton :) )

> 
> A BAND OF EVILDOERS ENCIRCLE ME
> Describes the onlookers

So what again???

> 
> I AM SCORNED BY MEN AND DESPISED
> This is also the current mass Jewish reaction.


Most Jews do not despise Jesus. They are either aware that he a mythical
character based on several different people and a few pagan gods, or they think
that he was some harmless preacher who got himself executed.

> 
> Many other lines correspond exactly to the New Testament account such
> as the opening cry and the parting of garments.

Of course they do. The writers of the NT misquoted lines from the Tanach and
took them out of context to support Christian myths. They also mistranslated
the Tanach to make everything fit. Modern Christian translators do the same
thing. Go into a Christian bookshop and compare different translations!!!

> 
> I trust that all is clearer now.

Open your eyes and see the light, its up there shining out of the bulb.
Colin Naturman
From: pab1@quads.uchicago.edu (paul andrew braier)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Cholov Yisrael
Date: 15 Dec 92 16:48:09 GMT
Reply-To: pab1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

> david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu (David Kaufmann) writes:
>
> [...]
> We assume, of course that both the heksher and the expiration date
> get checked at least once by all.

This was brought on by a story about milk. While most food items DO
require heksher, there are many items that don't. Any fresh fruit
or vegetable (with a certain qualification for Israeli produce) doesn't
need rabbinic supervision. Whole dried spices, beans and rice don't need
a heksher. Many canned vegetables also don't need a heksher.

The reason I bring this up is that there is a disagreement regarding
milk. While certain communities hold that milk requires heksher, that is,
that milk be _cholov_Yisrael_, this is by no means required by _halacha_.
There are many reputable Orthodox authorities who maintain that
government regulations forbidding the mixture of cows' milk with other
milk (esp. pig milk) are sufficient, and that additional rabbinic
supervision is not necessary.

I believe that the standard explanation by those who insist upon only
_cholov_Yisrael_ is that they are driven by fear of G-d rather than
fear of government. While this is a legitimate argument, one must not
forget that those who do not hold by _cholov_Yisrael_ nevertheless
are NOT in violation of _kashrus_ for this.

Please note that this applies only to milk, but not to milk products
such as cheese and yogurt. It also only applies in places where
government supervision is known to be reliable, such as the USA. Foreign
milk, in the absence of additional necessary information, must not be
used. This is especially important for travelers to know.


-----------------------
Paul A. Braier
pab1@quads.uchicago.edu
From: rubinoff@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Robert Rubinoff)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Inquiry
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:19:59 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Dec17.170634.15376@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:
>  I believe Muslims can eat
>shell-fish, while this is treif, so halal meat may not be acceptable
>to one who keeps kosher.

Halal meat is certainly not kosher, even if it's from a kosher animal.  There
are various rules that apply to kosher meat that go beyond what Islam requires.

   Robert
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: mark@fenris.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger)
Subject: Re: Deportations provoke crisis
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 22:07:33 GMT

In article <92354.0614272893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> Andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>                MASS DEPORTATIONS PERPETUATE CRISIS SITUATION


Tell you what, then.

Let's make an experiment. Let's hand Andy over to the Hamasis and see
if he lasts any longer than that policeman did.

That way he can try out his appeasement strategies first hand, with
his own welfare at stake, rather than that of folks who don't have the
luxury of residing in Canada.

My guess is that they won't work.

--Mark
From: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Jesus:  Would he support the Turks or Armenians?
Date: 14 Dec 1992 22:38:37 -0600
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Vijay:

Have you ever looked into any parallels between the
story of Jesus and the current dispute between the
Turks and Armenians?

Do you think Jesus would have believed the Muslim Turks 
who claim that there was no Armenian genocide?

Why or why not?  What does the Bible say on this matter?

Rob

-- 
--
Robert A. Levene     Internet: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu
  "/  //  / /"         Bitnet:   RXL1@APLVM
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 12:18:24 EST
From: Andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Vijay's Genuine Apology

In article <1992Dec16.163129.24073@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk>, ucakrvb@ucl.ac.uk (Vijay
Bhuchar) says:
>
>I just wanted to apologize for posting Messianic
>literature in SCJ.
>
>I will continue over in the correct forum which is
>alt.messianic and hope that I continue to receive as
>much mail as I did although hopefully from those of you
>who want genuine dialogue on the topic.
>
>My first article was in a response to a question
>* What is Messianic Judaism? * I showed you the Daniel 9
>prophecy which is winning the Orthodox over in their 100's.
>
>My follow ups were in response either to news items or e-mail
>(i.e. you said there was no crucifixion prophecy and I showed it
>to you etc. etc)
>
>I will get round to sending e-mail enquirers a standard reply soon
>
>Follow me on alt.messianic and I will show you other proofs of
>Messiahship of Jeez and I will at some point answer the question
>* Why do Christians evangelize Jews? *
>
>Believe me you think you know the answer but you dont.
>Its got something to do with an unfulfilled prophecy
>Zecheriah 13:8-9.
>
>See you on a.m hopefully
>
>Vijay

In your dreams!