From: jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Nadeem Jamali)
Subject: Re: Private Education in Pakistan
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 22:15:47 GMT
Organization: Technical University of Nova Scotia, Halifax, N.S.

In article <8252@news.duke.edu> shafqat@neuro.duke.edu (Saad Shafqat) writes:
>
>
>As usual, Nadeem, an unqualified pleasure to observe your cordial
>tone of argument, :-).  

You're welcome :)

>
>You have called me an insincere liar.  Very good.  I can say the
>same thing about your tales of you and your family being terrorised
>by MQM.
>

Most certainly you can!! That's exactly why I never talked about these
things before... which BTW do happen to be facts. 

Arguements such as you presented in your previous e-mail do not
have much weight. I remember one gentleman once quoted some chowkidar of
the place where Jinnah sahib was sick before he died. He said he talked
to the chowkidar himself :) who told him that Jinnah sahib had died in
Ziarat and people wanted to bury him right there. Hence, Liaqat Ali
Khan was not involved in any way :) :)

I have not called you an insincere liar though :)

>You say you cannot reason with a member of the muhajir "race".  Even

I did not say that. My use of the word "race" is meant to ridicule the
fascism that I've seen in "Muhajirs". I and many others find it very much
similar to the fascism of Nazis... hence the word "race".

>better.  What is the muhajir "race" and why am I a member of it ?
>Because my father was born in Agra ?  Oh, but wait, my mother
>was born in Lahore.  Does that make me Panjabi ?  But no, no,

Let's take MQM's definition. According to their definition, you become a
"Muhajir" when your father is a "Muhajir" (I don't mean anything against
your father). I have a friend called Asif Raza Shah. This dude used to
find speaking Sindhi rather un-cool :) His mom is urdu speaking. What
prompted him to start speaking Sindhi was an attack on one of his friend's
house. That friend's mother was also Urdu-speaking as his own. (This
happenned in Hyderabad). MQM attacked the house... raped the guy's mom
and killed everyone in the family. He no more fealt secure in the fact
that he is an Urdu-speaking son of a Sindhi-speaking father.

>wait, I have a friend called Chachar.  Does that help ?  Look
>sai'N.  I don't argue as a member of any "race" and I think it
>is quite petty of you to bring it up.  

I didn't refer to you as a member of any race. The only think that
was meant for you was "so-called ex-supporters of MQM". You're just
putting words into my mouth.

Strange that you don't consider me a friend only because I find it
difficult to discuss things with you (and you feel the same way). Even
my name means "friend" :) 

>
>You say you find my discussion very frustrating.  Do you think I
>relish yours ?  The last time we locked horns, you had made the
>[perfectly juvenile] claim that muhajir immigration into Karachi
>robbed Sindhis of educational institutions they had made.  I came
>back with the response that NED was made by a parsi, Dawood College
>and Habib School by memons, Aga Khan University by Ismailis, 
>Dow Medical College by the British, Sindh Medical College by
>the Federal Government, Baqai Medical College by a "muhajir",
>and St. Patrick's and related schools by Christian missionaries.
>I then asked you which Sindhi institutions were you talking about.
>Remeber your response ?  Let me remind you my level-headed sai'N:
>it was nothing but a vat of vitriol.  No substance, just adjectives
>attacking me.  You don't know what frustration feels like until
>you've argued with you, :-).

Thanks for that :) Haven't I given clear reasons time and again why
I find it frustrating to argue with you. I have begged you to please
leave me alone... and I have done this so many times. I never called
you names. I never used any dirty language... please don't say that
you didn't either.

Don't you get it? Can't you see that so many people 
(well, except the Silatman :) ) find the way you argue very unreasonable?

>
>You write me off because I supported the MQM.  First of all,
>my support was qualified.  I am deeply repulsed by all the
>badmashi that MQM did and advocate exemplary punishment for
>them.  What I did support was that MQM had started to give
>muhajirs ethnic credentials, which had fast become the
>only way to get counted in Pakistan.

No matter what an organization does for its electorate, is it right to support
it if it's killing other people. What are other people of Sindh supposed
to think when they see that almost all "Muhajirs" vote for an organization
whose only qualification is engaging in a genocide of Sindhis ? ethnic
cleansing ?? So proudly have I heard some friends mention that one
of MQM candidate got more than 90% votes in the '88 election. His only
qualification was murders of 32 Sindhis dammit!! You say you supported
MQM because it gave "Muhajirs" ethnic credentials, my question is, AT
WHAT COST??  And what did you expect from me when you challenged me when I
spoke the truth about MQM.

What I find funny is that many people have developed a dislike for
MQM only because it had started killing/harrassing "Muhajirs". 
This is what MQM has done. It's killed the human beings in people...

Again, I'm not making any claims about your morality. But, there could
be either of the two reasons why you have decided to condemn MQM:

1. Now that MQM has been exposed, you don't want to associate with it,
   lest your reputation is effected.

2. You are really disgusted by their harrassment of "Muhajirs."

If you were never aware of what MQM has been doing for the past few years,
still you can hardly blame me for being too hard on you. You made claims,
challenged me, when you didn't know much yourself.

>-- 

Nadeem

PS: funny that you chose to leave out my posting. I bet it makes
it easier to attribute arbitrary things to me :) :)

-- 
Nadeem Jamali                                     jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca
						 
School of Computer Science			  
Technical University of Nova Scotia		  (902)420-7527