HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dpe@inel.gov (Don Palmrose)
Subject: Re: Breaking in green submariners
Organization: INEL EG&G Idaho
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 14:53:36 GMT


From dpe@inel.gov (Don Palmrose)

In article <BtGIn0.5G@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:
> 
> 
> From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
> 
> In article <BtC566.6Ko@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> dpe@inel.gov (Don Palmrose) writes:
> 
>   Since a sub at depth must over come 
> |the outside sea pressure to pump anything out of a tank, the sewage tank must 
> |be pressurized in order to pump it to the sea.  Normally, signs are posted in 
> |all the heads warning that this operation is occurring, but "sometimes a sign 
> |may disappear".  Needless to say, when the unsuspecting person goes to flush 
> |the toilet....
> 
> So does the toilet start geysering bilge or does it simply
> overflow since the stopcocks are shut off?
> 
> 
> -- 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
> Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
> Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
> 
> 

Remember, the sewage tank is now pressurized to acouple hundred pounds using
compressed air.  The inside of the sub is at atmospheric pressure.  So when
the ball valve (this is the toilet flush valve) is open, even just slightly,
the person will get a pressurized shower of the type not desired.

Don Palmrose
"I'd rather not serve on a ship designed to sink...."





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From: bwise@hemlock.mitre.org (Barry Wise)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Use of snipers
Date: 23 Aug 92 22:16:28 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Full-Name: News Service


From bwise@hemlock.mitre.org (Barry Wise)

In article <BtC5Bt.6p6@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> ghm@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff  
Miller) writes:

> behind cover.  The British also could have made better use of their 
> riflemen  -  Major Ferguson at one time had George Washington in his
> sights but didn't fire.
> 

Louie L'Amour had a novel called _The Ferguson Rifle_. The protagonist had gone  
west with a rifle he received as a gift from Major Ferguson as a young man.   
The rifle was a breech loader.  Does anyone have more information on this  
rifle.  In the story, Ferguson was killed soon after giving the rifle away and  
it was not adopted by the British. I believe it used some sort of screw  
mechanism for the breech.
--
Barry Wise
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: lesher@coral.bucknell.edu (Lesher Timothy Darwin)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re:  Re: Breaking in green submariners
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:24:47 GMT
Organization: Bucknell University, Lewisburg, PA, USA


From lesher@coral.bucknell.edu (Lesher Timothy Darwin)

In article <BtLC9x.5BF@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> "Edward J. Rudnicki" (FSAC-SID) <erudnick@pica.army.mil> writes:
>
>#Many new Navy guys (surface and subs) have been sent for: 20 feet of
>#chow line, relative bearing grease, cable pullers, a bucket of steam,
>#to look for sea bats, etc.
>
>We always sent the guy for a hundred feet of Jersey shore line. A
>bucket of prop wash was also a vital necessity when leaving foreign
>harbors as well.
>

In an Army transportation unit, I've heard of sending poor saps out looking
for a "trailer stretcher" as well...  keep them coming...

Tim Lesher <lesher@bucknell.edu>
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: CMSgt Mike Bergman <bergman@afnews.pa.af.mil>
Subject: Homestead AFB Update
Organization: Hq Air Force News Agency/SCC
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:27:14 GMT


From CMSgt Mike Bergman <bergman@afnews.pa.af.mil>

682.  Homestead update
     HOMESTEAD AFB, Fla. (AFNS) -- Servicemembers assigned to Homestead will
be allowed to visit their homes daily, 8 a.m. to 5 p.m., beginning Aug. 28, in
order to assess damage to their personal property caused by Hurricane Andrew,
which struck Aug. 24.
     Driven by winds in excess of 140 mph, Andrew ripped through Homestead,
damaging or destroying virtually every facility on the southern Florida base
and bringing operations to a halt.
     Airmen started evacuating at 6:30 a.m., Aug. 23, with many choosing to
head to other Air Force bases in Florida, such as Eglin, Tyndall, Patrick and
MacDill.
     Homestead currently has no electricity, water, telephone or other
services available.  Lodging and other services in the surrounding communities
has also been affected by the storm.
     The daily 5 p.m. departure time has been set for safety and security
considerations, officials said.  Those returning are discouraged from bringing
young family members with them.
     A toll-free number, 1-800-232-9916, has been established, allowing
evacuees to let the Air Force know where they are, and receive more
information and instructions.
     Officials recommend staying tuned to local news media reports for updates
and keeping contact with the nearest personnel office for more information and
instructions as they become available.
     Information about donating specifically to Air Force relief is available
by calling the Air Force Aid Society at (703) 692-9305.  Individuals can make
donations to the overall relief effort through their local Red Cross chapters.


-- 
         
      // \\
    //     \\                    Air Force News Agency 
   |         |               Kelly Air Force Base, Texas, USA
   \\  {*}  //                   bergman@afpan.pa.af.mil  
   \  CMSgt  /      ___________________ /____________________________________
   \  Mike   /   
   \ Bergman /
     \     / 



Newsgroups: sci.military
From: dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams)
Subject: Re: A-12 tail numbers
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 12:08:44 GMT


From dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams)



gary@umnstat.stat.umn.edu (Gary Oehlert) writes:
 >Heard an interesting story yesterday at the Air Guard booth at
 >the MN State Fair.  The local Air National Guard Museum received
 >one of the A-12 aircraft 

That would be the eighth A-12 built (actual) tail number 60-6931, 
which was last flown on June 7th, 1968.

 >that were decommissioned last year.

Well, the A-12s were actually "decommissioned" back in the late 1960s.
The follow-on SR-71s are the aircraft that the AF shut down recently.
Fortunately NASA has three operational Blackbirds at Ames-Dryden FRF.

 >The guys in the booth reported that during the cleaning/refurbishing
 >of the aircraft it was discovered that the aircraft had several
 >different tail numbers (depending on which layer of paint you
 >were looking at).  

Interesting...

 >Is it common for aircraft numbers to change, is this a counter-intellengence
 >move to disguise the number of aircraft etc, or was someone pulling my leg?

No leg pulling.  The A-12s were operated by the CIA under the OXCART project
and there have been some examples documented of false tail numbers being put
on various Blackbirds from time to time.  It was likely some sort of "shell 
game", either to confuse people as to how many aircraft there were, where 
they were located at any given time, or something like that...

Here is a list of the valid A-12 tail numbers:

  60-6924  (121)          60-6931  (128)
  60-6925  (122)          60-6932  (129)
  60-6926  (123)          60-6933  (130)
  60-6927  (124)          60-6937  (131)
  60-6928  (125)          60-6938  (132)
  60-6929  (126)          60-6939  (133)
  60-6930  (127)

Numbers 934-936 were the YF-12 prototypes and 940/941 became 
the M-12 drone carrier aircraft for the D-21.

-{ DA }-
From: wsun@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Victor Sun)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: radar jammar & burn through
Date: 23 Aug 92 22:12:04 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo


From wsun@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Victor Sun)


Hi, could any one out there briefly explain to me how does radar jammer
function? The book I read says that when the jammer is on, the enemy
radar is unable to locate the friendly jets, therefore can't lock on
any target. But why can't they just locate the source of the jamming
signal and lauch a missile at the jammer, would that be possible?
Also, at certain range, the enemy radar will burn through the jamming
signal and lock on to the incoming fighters. How does that work?
Sound to me like the radar signal is able to "penetrate" the jamming
signal, hit the target and bounce back. But I just can't figure out
how that is possible.  8-(

Thanks in advance !


Victor Sun
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: Mike.Hoffmann@sniap.mchp.sni.de (Mike Hoffmann)
Subject: Aircraft Carriers & In-flight refueling - what's so hard?
Organization: Siemens-Nixdorf AG, AP 712
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 15:23:21 GMT


From Mike.Hoffmann@sniap.mchp.sni.de (Mike Hoffmann)

Hi!

The recent thread on China acquiring the technology for in-flight refueling
has left me a bit bewildered. Same goes for the remarks concerning Aircraft
carriers.

So what makes in-flight refueling and AC's so special and difficult that
the Soviets never really mastered the latter and China just now managed
to get the former?

I had thought it was more a matter of training and practise, but the
remarks made it seem as if it was also a problem that only the high-tech
West had managed to solve.

COnfused
Mike
-- 
Mike Hoffmann, Siemens-Nixdorf AG, SNI AP 712  
INTERNET: Mike.Hoffmann@sniap.mchp.sni.de
"Bosnia has no oil [as opposed to Kuwait]." (unknown citizen of Sarajevo)

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: amichiel@mailbox.syr.edu (Allen J Michielsen)
Subject: Re: WINGS - P51 Mustang ... really out to be about trains...
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 12:08:33 GMT


From amichiel@mailbox.syr.edu (Allen J Michielsen)

<BtpCqG.M19@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> jvz@pt.com (John Zambito) writes:
>...I often wondered why planes would shoot there machine guns at trains.
>...the show last night they showed from the planes point of
>view what can happen if you hit the right spot. The front
>of the train blew up with such a huge explosion that there
>was shrapnel way up in the air that the plane had to fly
>through. And he was not very close to the ground. There...

   While shooting at trains seems futile, it is a very effective policy.
Even if the train doesn't explode like this showed, a lot of very good
things can happen.  1. The engineer (driver) gets hit/killed/ or jumps off
and the train derails.  Trains actually can derail fairly easily, and the
rail line is usually damaged.  2. The train may be broken, and a broken or
disrailed engine is a mess.  The track is unusable, and tons and tons of
equipment can't be mved...  




--
Al. Michielsen, Crouse Hinds School of Management, Syracuse University
 InterNet: amichiel@mailbox.syr.edu  amichiel@sunrise.acs.syr.edu
 Bitnet: AMICHIEL@SUNRISE 

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: rja@batcomfs.Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com)
Subject: Re: SAS use tungsten coated 9mmclo
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 14:49:00 GMT


From rja@batcomfs.Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com)

In article <BtGJ1H.rD@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> wwo@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (Thomas Schoene) writes:
>> In article <BtAJop.EKo@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, Rick Lafford <lafford@serum.clpd.Kodak.COM> writes:
>>
>> This is a point that is quite valid, but not good tactical doctrine.  The
>> problem arises when you get down to that last bullet: will it work on
>> the target given?  
> The real problem would be that the dissimilar rounds would almost certainly
>have different ballistic performance and thus different points of aim beyond a
>few feet.  Not good for accuracy when half the rounds are going one way and
>half the other. ;-)

    IMHO, pinning your strategy on high tech ammo is a foolish
    idea.  I don't think the SAS is foolish.  I've read that the
    ammo of chice in the Princess' Gate episode was 9mm half
    jacketed soft points.  Hollow points can't be relied upon to
    expand, particularly if the HP clogs up with clothing fibers
    on the way in.
>
>> As far as a hollowpoint goes, it
>> isn't the greatest as far as expanding rounds go.  There are much better 
>> rounds to achieve the same effect.
>WHat would be better? (This is not a flame, just curiosity.)  The hollowpoint
>rounds commonly in police use are turning in 80+% one shot stops.  [courtesy of
>Wayne Evans' shooting statistics]  That would seem to be pretty d*mn good. 

    Past legends have had it that Glaser Safety Slugs rule, as well
    as BAT rounds, Hydra-shock, and other enforced expansion bullets.
    However, based on the little I've read coming out of the International
    Wound Ballistics Assoc., hollow points which rely on fluid pressure
    in the cavity will not expand reliably.  In those that do expand,
    expansion may occur too early, and you may not get enough penetration.
    Sufficient penetration is now deemed to be about 12", which accounts
    for intervening limbs, clothing, off-angle shots, etc.  The bottom
    line seems to be that you must penetrate sufficiently to hit the
    `T' formed by the eyes and spine.  This gives the best chance of
    disabling the nervous system, but nothing is for sure.  Current
    wound ballistics people such as Dr. Martin Fackler are advising
    using low velocity, heavy, hollowpoints, such as the 147 grain
    JHP in 9mm.

    I don't believe in one shot stops.
--
Robert Allen, rja@sun.com		DISCLAIMER: I said it, not my company.

	Samuel Addams: Brewer, Patriot.
From: Joseph F Baugher <jfb@ihlpl.att.com>
Subject: Tenth in the Series--The Curtiss XP-10
Keywords: Experimental, surface radiators, Conqueror engine
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories -  Naperville, Illinois
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 15:19:33 GMT


From Joseph F Baugher <jfb@ihlpl.att.com>


The Curtiss XP-10 was designed and built under an Army contract  dated
June  18,  1928,  which  called for a new pursuit aircraft having good
maneuverability and high speed at high altitude.

The upper wing of the XP-10 had a gull form, and was  joined  directly
to  the  fuselage.  By eliminating the wing center section in front of
and above the cockpit, the traditional upward and forward  blind  spot
for the pilot was removed, and exceptionally good pilot visibility was
anticipated.  In the pursuit  of  higher  speed,  Curtiss  decided  to
readopt  the old PW-8 style surface radiators for the XP-10, and these
were fitted to the upper and lower surfaces of the inner half  of  the
top wing.  The  fuselage  was  of  steel tube construction with fabric
skinning.  The wings were of wood, enveloped in the  special  "Curtiss
ply"   covering.   The  powerplant  was  a  600-hp  Curtiss  V-1570-15
Conqueror liquid-cooled engine.  The Conqueror was mounted  inside  an
extremely tight-fitting and well-streamlined cowling, made possible by
the use of the wing-mounted radiators.  The two-bladed  propeller  was
capped  with  a  spinner  which faired neatly into the engine cowling.
The result was an airplane with extremely clean and attractive lines.

The XP-10 (Ser No 28-387) was delivered to the Army in April 1930.  It
made  its  first  flight  one  month  later.  As  expected,  the pilot
visibility was excellent.  However, the performance of the  XP-10  was
rather  disappointing,  being  only  marginally better than the Army's
contemporary Hawk models powered by the  same  Conqueror  engine.  The
major  fault  with  the  P-10 was with the old PW-8 style surface wing
radiators.  These proved to be quite as troublesome as they  were  for
the  PW-8,  and  were the principal reason for the Army's rejection of
the design.

During tests, the XP-10 attained a maximum speed of  191  mph  at  sea
level  and  215 mph at 12,000 feet.  Initial climb was 1650 ft/min and
service ceiling was 26,500 feet.  Range was 461 miles.   Weights  were
3040 lb. empty, 3975 lbs gross.  The XP-10 was armed with two 0.30-cal
machine guns in the  upper  fuselage  cowling,  synchronized  to  fire
through the propeller arc.

The XP-10 was scrapped by the Army in August 1931 after only ten hours
of  flight  time.   Thereafter,  Curtiss  confined its biplane pursuit
development to variants of the established Hawk line.

Sources:

  The American Fighter, Enzo Angellucci and Peter Bowers, Orion Books,
  1987.

  Curtiss Aircraft: 1907-1947, Peter M. Bowers, Naval Institute Press,
  1987.

Joe Baugher       AT&T Bell Laboratories    2000 North Naperville Road 
		  Naperville, Illinois 60566-7033.   (708) 713-4548

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: jvz@pt.com (John Zambito)
Subject: WINGS - P51 Mustang
Organization: Performance Technologies, Incorporated
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:35:03 GMT


From jvz@pt.com (John Zambito)

I watched the WINGS show on the P51 Mustang last night.
The gun camera footage was fantastic. I often wondered
why planes would shoot there machine guns at trains. In 
the show last night they showed from the planes point of
view what can happen if you hit the right spot. The front
of the train blew up with such a huge explosion that there
was shrapnel way up in the air that the plane had to fly
through. And he was not very close to the ground. There
was other footage that was just indescribable. One sequence
showed what looked like a drop tank being shot and bursting
into flames while still on the plane. 

-- 
__
John Zambito, Performance Technologies Incorporated	jvz@pt.com
315 Science Parkway, Rochester, New York 14620    uupsi!ptsys1!jvz

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Subject: Re: Depleted Uranium -- Hydrogen Bombs
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 16:18:12 GMT


From ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)

In article <BtJnCy.8sr@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> merlin@neuro.usc.edu (merlin) writes:
>
>Why do you say the details are omitted?  You put a U-238 wrapper around
>your fusion core -- and put the entire assembly in an intense neutron flux
>environment (maybe something like a couple of feet from a fission device).
>
>No necessary details have been omitted -- unless, of course, you buy off
>on Howard Morland's Progressive Magazine design (x-ray radiation pressure
>and/or exploding styrofoam instead of fast neutron induced implosion) --
>if so, then I have prime farming land in Arizona I'd love to sell you.

Yes, please, everyone build your H bombs this way. I'll sleep better.

Seriously, if you want to know what's wrong with this approach do the
math for what's happening at 15 and at 30 nanoseconds after fission
implosion. You'll find that your fusion core goes phutt out the side
of the device while the neutrons are still building alpha. Even if
it didn't, you'd get an asymetric implosion because of the speed 
of the prompt neutron flux and the geometry of the system.

Gary


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: lesher@coral.bucknell.edu (Lesher Timothy Darwin)
Subject: Re: Clearing cities with non-lethal gas (Baghdad?)
Organization: Bucknell University, Lewisburg, PA, USA
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 12:43:33 GMT


From lesher@coral.bucknell.edu (Lesher Timothy Darwin)

In article <BtJnBo.8oJ@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> tedrick%whistle.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Tom Tedrick) writes:
>
>Obviously, for political reasons, the USA doesn't want to get
>into using poison gas for such purposes, but I wonder if using
>large quantities of non-lethal gas (tear gas or whatever the
>current state-of-the-art is) might not be useful. For example,
>an armored thrust on Baghdad during the recent "Desert Storm"
>should have been workable, then when on the outskirts of the
>city non-lethal gas might have been used to try to clear the city
>of defenders without getting bogged down in street fighting.
>
>Gas is a favorite weapon of SWAT teams when clearing buildings,
>and it seems like it might work analogously, on a larger scale,
>when clearing cities.
>

Unfortunately, while tear gas is useful in small, enclosed areas such
as bunkers, rooms, etc., the net result of using tear gas in a city seems
a lot different.  Tear gas is a non-persistent agent.  The whole idea is
that it will clear out of an open area rather quickly (no decontamination
necessary).  In an open area such as a city, you'd have to heavily
blanket the area for a while--delivery may be rather difficult.

Also, even if you do manage to blanket the area, it seems to me
that tear gas is a fairly quick-acting way to clear out people.  People
lose their capacity to act when in tear gas for too long; how long
does it take to get out of the city (at least, the area affected by the
tear gas)?  The larger the area you blanket, the longer it takes.  Plus,
you have to think about the "soccer stadium" effect.  A few thousand
people blinded by tear gas trying to run in any random direction is
something I don't particularly want to clean up after.  ;)  If you want
that many casualties, you'd be better off using conventional stuff.




Newsgroups: sci.military
From: gary@umnstat.stat.umn.edu (Gary Oehlert)
Subject: A-12 tail numbers
Organization: School of Statistics, University of Minnesota
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:26:51 GMT


From gary@umnstat.stat.umn.edu (Gary Oehlert)

Heard an interesting story yesterday at the Air Guard booth at
the MN State Fair.  The local Air National Guard Museum received
one of the A-12 aircraft that were decommissioned last year.
The guys in the booth reported that during the cleaning/refurbishing
of the aircraft it was discovered that the aircraft had several
different tail numbers (depending on which layer of paint you
were looking at).  

Is it common for aircraft numbers to change, is this a 
counter-intellengence move to disguise the number of aircraft etc,
or was someone pulling my leg?

Gary

-- 

Gary W. Oehlert					Voice: 612-625-4758
Dept. of Applied Statistics			Fax:   612-624-2719
University of Minnesota				
1994 Buford Ave.				gary@umnstat.stat.umn.edu
St. Paul, MN 55108				stat201@umnacux.bitnet

Newsgroups: sci.military