HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chuq@gallant.apple.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: The Owners Never Learn
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:42:52 GMT
Organization: I is a writur

paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen) writes:

>Although I'm hardly a member of the Fay Vincent Fan Club, I'm having trouble
>figuring out just what the hell the owner's beef is, other than the fact 
>that Fay is not properly acting as the owner's subservient lackey.

That's more than enough cause, at least in their minds.

Baseball's badly screwed up. The owners seem hell-bent on trying to kill it
before returning to the real world. I just hope they fail, but I'm not
confident of it. 

-- 
Chuq "IMHO" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX) =+= Member, SFWA
  chuq@apple.com | GEnie: MAC.BIGOT | ALink:CHUQ =+= Editor, OtherRealms
	A real SF writur with stories in ALTERNATE KENNEDYS and THE 
	  FURTHER ADVENTURES OF BATMAN, in better bookstores now!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: nissim@mary.fordham.edu (Leonard J. Nissim)
Subject: Re: Why aren't there more baseball player actors?
Organization: Fordham University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:18:00 GMT
X-Posted-From: mary.fordham.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Aug31.192834.18212@linus.mitre.org>, 
sdo@hoops.mitre.org (Sean D. O'Neil) writes...
[stuff deleted] 
>In addition to Karras and Dryer, I can recall, off the top of my head, 
>the following football players in acting roles:
> 
> 
>Jim Brown:		THE DIRTY DOZEN (and many other films) 
>Roman Gabriel:		(some John Wayne flick.  Roman plays his
>			adopted Indian son.  Also stars Rock Hudson)
>Joe Namath:		CC RIDER AND COMPANY (with Ann Margaret)
>Terry Bradshaw:		HOOPER (a Burt Reynolds flick)
>Mean Joe Greene:	MEAN JOE AND THE KID (or something like that.
>			A movie version of the Coke commercial---yuk!)
>Larry Csonka:		episode of BANACEK
>Lyle Alzado:		THE EXTERMINATOR (again, or something like that.
>			Lyle plays a killer who is executed but comes back
>			to life)
>Brian Bosworth:		(can't remember the name.  Brian plays an
>			undercover cop.  Currently languishing on video
>			shelves everywhere)
>(Oakland Raider and
>Anthony Munoz):		A lineman and a linebacker, repectively, in
>			NORTH DALLAS FORTY
>Mike Ditka:		episode of LA LAW (actually, this shouldn't count
>			since he played himself)
> 
> 
>In addition, I have this nagging feeling that the following players have
>acted in something other than commercials at one time or another:
> 
>Bubba Smith
>Dick Butkus
>Franco Harris
> 
You forgot:  Ed Marinaro (of Minn. Vikings 1972-? and later NY Jets)
             He acted in Hill St. Blues, is now in Sisters, and has
             been in several TV movies, including The Diamond Trap with 
             Brooke Shields.  
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leonard Nissim, notorious Dodger fanatic     (nissim@mary.fordham.edu)  
Disclaimer:  "I speak only for myself."   
World Championships:  Brooklyn-----1955   
                      Los Angeles--1959  1963  1965  1981  1988
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: 6669030@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Don't give up Twins fans!!!
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 23:19:59 GMT

Sunday, August 30th 1992.......Oakland leads by 7.5 games
Monday, August 31st 1992.......Canseco traded
Wednesday, Sept. 2nd 1992......Oakland leads by 4.5 games

Hmmmmm......

I don't think its over yet.  (Yeah, it probably is.....but its alot more
interesting today..)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Billy K.                                 |      |\/\/\/|
6669030@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM       |      |      |
                                         |      |      |   --------------------
"Tony told me that he was going to miss  |      | (o)(o)   \ Don't have a cow,/
 me, then he hugged me."                 |      C      _)   \   LaRussa!!    /
                                         |       | ,___|___/ \--------------/
                 -J. Canseco 8/30/92     |       |   /
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: chrisgro@microsoft.com (Christopher Gross)
Subject: Re: CUB'S MADDUX EASY CHOICE FOR CY
Date: 03 Sep 92 17:55:53 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <16561@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> fzchen@othello.ucdavis.edu writes:
>NOT!  When his competetion will have over 20 wins and an ERA under
>2.75 its not that easy.  Glavine isn't another Steve Stone
>or LaMarr Hoyt kinda choice.  He's been the best pitcher in 
>either league for the last two years.  If that doesn't have some 
>merit what does?  Sure I could've made the same argument for
>Danny Jackson when Hershiser won the Cy. 
What exactly is (was) the argument for Jackson as the Cy Young winner over
Hershiser?  I always thought it was pretty cut and dry. 

			Chris Gross
			chrisgro@microsoft.com

>-MeatHead


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Baseball and Billions
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:59:28 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.192532.29258@cis.ohio-state.edu> miked@pterodactyl.cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Davey) writes:
>	It seems were stuck in a "which came first, the chicken or the egg?"
>argument. I do not deny that the owners do weigh how things will affect the 
>fans. My position is that I don't think that how much money the fans
>will spend after a given change should be the only factor going in to 
>the decision making process. What's so unreasonable about that?

What's unreasonable about it is that you haven't told us what the other
factors *should* be, or how they would change the way things currently
work. 

>>Is "aesthetically correct" anything like "politically correct"?
>	My God, thats the joke! Thats why there is a HA HA after it.

I understand.  I was agreeing with the joke.

>>If you think a lock-out is the way to resolve the issues and eliminate
>>strikes, I think you need to do some more reading about the issue.  Might I
>>suggest a few books about the history of baseball and labor negotiations?
>>_The Imperfect Diamond_, by Lee Lowenfish, and _A Whole Different Ball
>>Game_, by Marvin Miller, are good places to start.
>	How can you think I support a lock out? I don't uderstand why you think
>that?

Because of what you said:

>Next year, in all likelyhood, the owners will lock out the players and some
>people (writers, commentators, etc) have indicated the owners are ready to
>lose a whole year's revenue in order to re-open the basic agreement and
>restructure the present free-agency system, salary-structure, etc. If this
>is
>the case, hopefully, all the issues will finally get resolved by
>salary-caps
>(an inevitability), shared t.v. revenue (a possibility), and maybe ten
>years could go by without a strike or lock-out shortened season.

To me, this said that you thought it would be a good thing for the owners
to lock out the players and lose a whole year's revenue so that the issues
will get resolved.


>>What kind of restructuring is needed?
>	It seems that question should be included under a different topic.

So answer it in another message.  Don't dodge it.  If you're advocating
major change, you ought to tell us more about the change.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: kettler@oppy.mit.edu (KETTLER, THOMAS R.)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Clearing Waivers
Date: 30 Aug 92 23:12:00 GMT
Organization: MIT Lab for Nuclear Science
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In article <BttCF0.8qo@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, dwarner@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (david j w writes...
>In article <la25c0INN9p2@mizar.usc.edu> pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger) writes:
>>Can someone please answer this question?
>>
>>How is it possible that Cone cleared waivers when just two
>>weeks ago, Bobby Ojeda DID NOT clear waivers.
>>
>>Seems to me the rest of the National League WANTS to see the
>>Dodgers finish in last place.  It makes no sense that a
>>pitcher of Cone's quality could sail through, yet Ojeda
>>was blocked.
>>
>>					BleedsDodgerBlue
> 
>I don't have the whole 411 on Ojeda, but my guess is that a division contender
>somewhere wanted him, and another team within the division blocked the deal.
>As for why Cone got through and not Ojeda, your guess is as good as mine.
>From what I've heard, Ruben Sierra and Jeff Reardon have been blocked this
>year as well.  Seems Baltimore and Milwaukee may have been sleeping through the
>Cone deal.
> 

Well, Ojeda had been rumored for weeks about going to Montreal. The deal didn't 
occur because the Expos GM refused to give up Shane Andrews for Ojeda. However, 
that had been rumored for so long that I assume that Pittsburgh claimed Ojeda 
to make certain that he was not going to the Expos.

As for Cone, I remember hearing that when waivers was placed on Cone, Guzman 
was still healthy. Hence, the Brewers GM and the Orioles GM had no reason to 
believe that Gillick would pull off that deal. Also, they were surprised that 
Minnesota didn't claim Cone since the A's could also have traded for him as 
easily as the Blue Jays did.

					Sincerely yours,

					Thomas R. Kettler "Expos Fanatic"
From: sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (Sivaram Hariharan )
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Twins just can't drive in base-runners.
Date: 27 Aug 92 01:57:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.19905
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network


The story is the same in the series with the Detroit. In the
bottom of the 6th Hrbek grounds into a  double play. In the
bottom of the 7th, with runners on 2nd and 3rd with nobody
eight, Gagne bunts and runners at 3rd and 1st are erased.

The score is still 0-0 in the top of the 8th.

S.H
Forever Twins
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: DAVID CONE TO BLUE JAYS
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 06:33:23 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.185553.1623@sni.ca> dave@silver.sni.ca (Dave Till) writes:
>
>The problem with indiscriminate lineup shuffling is that it confuses
>the hitters.  Players often find it difficult to adjust to a new role.
>I think, for instance, that Olerud's hitting would suffer if he was
>moved to the #2 slot.

I agree.  Shuffling lineups is bad.  That's why Olerud should have
been batting second all along, whether he was streaking or slumping.

And I disagree that Olerud's hitting would suffer.  His hitting was
*severely* suffering in April, as he was trying to adjust to being an
"RBI man".  He is not naturally suited to that role, and the pressure
was bothering him.  A move back to his natural role would be far less
drastic.

>Besides, a player bumped out of a significant offensive slot (leadoff,
>cleanup, etc.) becomes unhappy, which might decrease his production.
>This decrease could more than offset the benefit of the lineup switch.

Is it even *possible* to decrease Devon White's production?  I'm not
proposing bumping anybody else out of a significant slot.

>Besides, it's not as if the offense was in need of
>an overhaul:  the team is scoring runs.

Not as many as they might be...

>(Digression:  Cito Gaston's lineup management theory -- decide on one, then
>set it in concrete -- is the polar opposite of Jimmmmmmmmmmy Williams'
>approach.

It's a good approach.  But you do need to make occasional changes.
Maybe once or twice a year, depending on injuries and slumps and new
players and such.  And Cito chose the wrong lineup at the start of
this year.

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Clemens may not win his 4th CY, but he still rules!	tedward@cs.cornell.edu
From: jeffyg@conquest.ksu.ksu.edu (Jeffrey Wayne Geist)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Oakland and Texas... I scratch my head....
Date: 1 Sep 92 09:47:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: conquest.180hccINNlj2
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: conquest.ksu.ksu.edu

OK  Im not really sure why either team did it, but here is some attempted
rationalization

Canseco:  He was a disruption to the A`s.  Women, cars, guns, etc.  are his
          problems.  Its no surprise he was traded.  Who would want him tho?
          Despite poor numbers and injuries, he is still going to demand 
          big numbers for a salary next year.  I dont forsee him staying in
          Texas past the end of the season.  Maybe so, but he seems more 
          likely to play in New York or Los Angeles.  He may even go to an
          expansion team, tho that is highly unlikely.

Sierra:   He will be great for the A's.  He has the attitude to play for them.
          He will probably even resign with them.  After unloading Jose's
          monster salary, they can afford Ruben.

Russell:  The Rangers could not afford to get rid of him.  He was the one
          consistency in their beleaguered bullpen.  The A`s definitely dont
          need him.  Dont be surprised if hes traded again in the next
          couple of days.  He definitely wont be back next season.

Witt:     Texas was tired of waiting on him.  He has yet to prove he can win
          consistantly at this level.  He will fit well with the A's staff,
          who can make winners out of about everyone (probably with the 
          exception of Mark Davis who was released by the Braves incidentaly)
          He will probably be signed to a 2 or 3 year deal with the A's.
-- 
Alright, you asked for it!  This is the Jeff Geist .sig file.  
Isnt it a bute?
From: currie@Software.Mitel.COM (Kim Currie)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: DAVID CONE TO BLUE JAYS
Date: 29 Aug 92 13:20:10 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <1992Aug27.170336.9564@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>
>Rumours of Kent+Sprague for Cone?  It sure improves the Jays pitching
>staff!  What is the rotation now?  Guzman, Cone, Morris, Key, Stot?
>Wells going back in the pen?  (They could use a quality lefty there.)
                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
Wells will put them halfway there....he's a lefty.

Kim


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: vince@sscl.uwo.ca
Subject: Re: Jays Callups and their Effects on Fantasy Leagues
Organization: Social Science Computing Laboratory
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 20:25:47 GMT

In article <BtwEyD.80L@cs.dal.ca>, niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gordon Niguma) writes:
>   Turner Ward- ... He may pinch hit a little bit but ...

Since when is Cito using pinch hitters? Has someone finally broken the
secret that pinch hitters are allowed in the American League?

It is my impression that the Blue Jays use very few pinch hitters:
certainly I have been baffled about some of the match-ups that Cito
permits. Does anyone have numbers for this?

Vince.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jfc@athena.mit.edu (John F Carr)
Subject: Re: Three triple plays in one month
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 02:47:33 GMT

In article <trn.715347510@warper.jhuapl.edu>
	trn@warper.jhuapl.edu (Tony Nardo) writes:

>Two triple plays turned against your team in a season seems bad enough luck,
>let alone two in one month!

What about two in one game?  The Red Sox hold that record.  They won the
game anyway.  They must have learned from the experience: this year when
they load the bases they hit home runs instead of triple plays.

--
    John Carr (jfc@athena.mit.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ecaxron@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Ron Graham)
Subject: Homestead update
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 27 Aug 1992 09:40 EDT  

The Tribe sent a team of their staffers from Cleveland down to Homestead,
FL, along with a battery of chain-saws.  Are they there to fix the Spring
Training facility?  Maybe later, but not yet.  They have been instructed to
"help out where needed" as the folks in Homestead try to fix their town, 
damaged sorely by Hurricane Andrew.  Rick Bay and Dan O'Dowd of the Tribe's
front office will visit Homestead this weekend, to inspect damage to the 
Spring Training facility and the rest of the town.

In the meantime, the Tribe has turned down separate offers from Sun City, AZ
and Winter Haven, FL for interim Spring Training facility usage.  More info
as it is available.

RG

"I don't know how [the Indians] lose.  I really don't."  -  John Smiley
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: CY, MVP, ROY
Keywords: eat more moose
Date: 28 Aug 92 22:37:23 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <28AUG199217315819@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu> hasch@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Bruce M Hasch) writes:
>In article <1992Aug28.193940.16825@tamsun.tamu.edu>, rlopez@loanstar.tamu.edu (Robert Lopez) writes...
>>National League
>>---------------
 
>>ROY
>>Help again...Karros is a candidate.  There are others, but I can't
>>seem to pull names right now.  Cianfrocco is fading/has faded.

>Cianfrocco is back in the minors, and his OBP sucked toads anyway.
>
>I'd go with Reggie Sanders--but only by a hair over Moises Alou or Karros.
>I can't think of anyone else deserving.

It looks like a 3 way race between Karros, Sanders and Alou.
Moises seems to be slumping a bit.  Karros will  probably win,
but any could.  I think Karros will win because he's been a
surprise and a success in a media center - he has had a lot
of publicity at least on the West coast.  He's also played
full time the whole year; Moises didn't start getting PT
until mid May and Sanders has been out several weeks.

-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: BLOCKBUSTER TRADE!
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 05:24:31 GMT

In article <9209010309.AA24539@oahu.cs.ucla.edu> gds@CS.UCLA.EDU (Greg Skinner) writes:
>The A's traded Jose Canseco to Texas for Ruben Sierra, Bobby Witt, and
>Jeff Russell.

I think it's an excellent deal for Texas.  On the appearance, the Rangers gave
up a very good right fielder and two not-bad pitchers for another very good
right fielder.  However, Russell, given his age, can be expected to collapse
at any time, and Sierra is a free agent, while Canseco is not.

I think the trade will cost Oakland in the long run, unless they can sign
Sierra.  Russell will be worthless eventually even if signed (he's a free
agent as well), so it will become Canseco for Witt and 2 draft picks.  Not a
pretty sight.  However, right now they tuned themselves well for the pennant
stretch and the playoffs.  They acquired badly need left-handed power (since
Harold Baines has been disappointing this year), and although Witt is no earth
shaker, he should improve the Oakland rotation.  Russell will also be a badly
needed *real* setup man for Eckersley, one who hasn't appeared since Gene
Nelson's injury early last season.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dfl@math.wayne.edu (David Frohardt-Lane)
Subject: Re: CUB'S MADDUX EASY CHOICE FOR CY
Organization: Wayne State University Math Department, Detroit
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 01:28:15 GMT

In article <16561@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> fzchen@othello.ucdavis.edu writes:
>NOT!  When his competetion will have over 20 wins and an ERA under
>2.75 its not that easy.  Glavine isn't another Steve Stone
>or LaMarr Hoyt kinda choice.  He's been the best pitcher in 
>either league for the last two years.  If that doesn't have some 
>merit what does?  Sure I could've made the same argument for

We're only talking about this year.  Glavine has not been the best
pitcher in the NL this year.

>he would pitch a better game.  Who's to say that the reason the Cubs
>don't score more when Maddux pitches as opposed to the Brave scoring
>for Glavine isn't the fact that Glavine has helped himself more at
>the plate.         

That doesn't matter.  The Cy Young goes to the player who has pitched
the best, and it has nothing to do with batting.

>Its not as if Glavine will win over 20 with a lousy ERA.  He's not
>the kind of pitcher that gives up lots of hits and walks.  He
>has pitched well to earn his 20 wins.

A lot of other pitchers have pitched well, but there is only one Cy
Young Award.  Glavine has had a great season, but Maddux has been
better.

>Glavine will win over 20 games and lose less than 7.  He will have
>a superior ERA (2.5 - 2.75) and will have pitched for the division 
>champions.  If that's not a Cy Young winner I don't 
>know what is.

Maddux has an outstanding ERA while playing in a hitters' park, will
have nearly 200 strikeouts when the season is over, he leads the league
with an OPP.SA of .267(!!!), and has pitched more innings than anyone
else in the league.  If that's not a Cy Young winner, I don't know what
is.

Like I said before, you can only give the award to one player, and
Maddux has been the best pitcher in the NL, so he should get it.

--
David Frohardt-Lane   dfl@math.wayne.edu 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Go Tigers, Lions, Pistons, Red Wings and Wolverines !!!!!!!!!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kettler@mitme5.mit.edu (KETTLER, THOMAS R.)
Subject: Re: Baseball and Billions
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: MIT Lab for Nuclear Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 20:22:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.013524.20292@leland.Stanford.EDU>, dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dave Eisen)    writes...
> 
>No need to speculate about Vincent's anti-racism record. 
> 
>Michael's suggestion that the commissioner could force owners to hire 
>black players is kind of amusing in light of the fact that the color line
>lasted as long as it did precisely because of the power of the commisioner
>to dictate policy to the owners.
> 
>The color line was broken just a couple of years after the death of 
>commisioner Landis, an out and out racist who would not allow the owners
>to play black players. 
> 
Well, Happy Chandler was forced to resign because of his willingness to let 
Branch Rickey sign and play Jackie Robinson by owners who were racist and 
wanted to keep the color line. Consequently, the best baseball players ever, 
Josh Gibson, Cool Papa Bell and Satchel Paige were not able to play in the 
majors in their prime. Check the latest McWeekly for more word on Chandler.

					Sincerely yours,

					Thomas R. Kettler "Expos Fanatic"
From: poutsmaj@mace.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Quote of the day
Date: 3 Sep 92 13:31:42 GMT
Organization: Purdue University

In article <1992Sep3.001431.2910@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami) writes:
>rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets) writes:
>>
>>Jose Canseco on being traded to Texas:
>>"Maybe it's an indication it's time to move on."
>
>You have conveniently quoted him out of context.  What Jose said was:
>``when you hit 30 homers and get 100 rbi's but the fans are booing you,
>maybe it's an indication etc.''
>

It may be out of context, but as written it was hilarious!! :-)

paul
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball