HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Subject: Re: Mellor: The establishment will again rush to protect their own
Organization: sgi
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 23:42:42 GMT

In article <24083@castle.ed.ac.uk>, egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
|> In article <nkjr8l8@zola.esd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
|> 
|> =>|> Why is the fact that he has slept with some woman important?
|> =>
|> =>It's not, but since the next election may not be for nearly
|> =>another five years, the losers have to have something to
|> =>complain about.  If they can't beat the government on its
|> =>policies, they'll just have to attack it on its sex life.
|> 
|> Interesting to note that the Mellor-is-an-adulterous-hypocrite saga
|> is today giving way to news that (surprise!!) the Tories are about
|> to renege on their election promises with regard to public spending.

Catch 22.   If the Tories spend more, they're irresponsible.
If they spend less, they're "reneging" on their election 
promises.

jon.
From: Larry.Mc.Donald@ofa123.Fidonet.org (Larry Mc Donald)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship
Subject: Re: Penn State CENSORS m
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:23:06 GMT
Organization: Universal Electronics Inc. (Public access BBS)


JB>  i) purchase a computer
JB> ii) purchase a modem
JB>iii) purchase (or acquire free) news software
JB> iv) purchase (or acquire a free) news feed

   Hello, John! Well, I've done i & ii & iii, but how does one
find a feed here in So. Cal?

___
 X OLX 2.1 X Try Milk of Amnesia - when you need to forget.


--  

Larry Mc Donald
Internet: Larry.Mc.Donald@ofa123.Fidonet.org
Compuserve: >internet:Larry.Mc.Donald@ofa123.Fidonet.org
Newsgroups: alt.censorship
From: grimlok@hubcap.clemson.edu (Mike Percy)
Subject: Re: Nea a need *2*
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:04:20 GMT

jg58+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeff Gates) writes:

>Mike Percy (Mike Percy@hubcap.clemso) writes on the NEA:

>>Oh, please, not empowerment and self-esteem.  What empowerment and
>>self-esteem will anyone have in a welfare state? 

>The budget for the NEA is $175 million. Hardly the makings of a welfare
>state. (By comparison, West Germany's yearly budget for culture (before
>reunification) was $5 billion.)
> 
 
The welfare state we are fast moving toward.  The welfare state we will
be in when our government beauracracy collapses under its own weight.
The NEA is just one small area part of this.  I contend thaat it is a
part which is spending money where money need not be spent, because the
artist would continue to paint and sculpt and write and compose even
without government money -- becuase they love what they do.  They may
have to get other jobs to support their art, but they'd still do art.
Also, much of the stuff funded by the NEA could be self-supporting or
get the needed support from coprorate funding.

>>Of course art is important.  I'd never take such a position.  But your
>>points are off.  When the government calls pays the bill, the
>>government can call the tune.  

>Just whom do you consider the government?  I believe that we citizens
>can participate in the decision making process. I don't know about you,
>but I am paying part of that bill. Your arguement hints that the
>government is separate from its citizens.
 
The non-elected beaurocrats that spend all this money.  And Congress and
the President who appropriates it all without ever comprehending what it
is all spent on.  The lawyers who have big handfuls of the hide of the
country in their grasp.  I vote, I write letters, I discuss the issues I
feel are important with anyone who will listen.  The only thing I can do
is quit my job and do it full time -- or run for office (and try to
avoid becoming what I dislike).  Think I could get the government (NEA)
to fund my actions -- I mean, I'd do it anyway, but with government
funding, I could quit my job and do more of the same!

Mike Percy             | grimlok@hubcap.clemson.edu  | I don't know about
Sr. Systems Analyst    | mspercy@clemson.clemson.edu | your brain, but mine
Info. Sys. Development | mspercy@clemson.BITNET      | is really...bossy.
Clemson University     | (803) 656-3780              | (Laurie Anderson)
From: fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Mellor: The establishment will again rush to protect their own
Date: 23 Jul 92 13:52:15 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:

>In article <nkjr8l8@zola.esd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:

>=>|> Why is the fact that he has slept with some woman important?
>=>
>=>It's not, but since the next election may not be for nearly
>=>another five years, the losers have to have something to
>=>complain about.  If they can't beat the government on its
>=>policies, they'll just have to attack it on its sex life.

>Interesting to note that the Mellor-is-an-adulterous-hypocrite saga
>is today giving way to news that (surprise!!) the Tories are about
>to renege on their election promises with regard to public spending.

Here's a trite, but not necessarily innacurate interpretation of this
one:

Possibly:

A) The Tories figured they'd lose the election anyway (this looked
possible for about a week) and they might as well promise cake, cake,
and more cake.

or

B) The Tories upped their forecast for public spending to a fairly
ridiculus level in the hope that the Labour shadow-chancellor would top
this in his shadow budget. He did, and the Tories could then rail about
how much tax or borrowing it would cost to do this. This then more or
less won them the election. Their problem now is that they're still left
with their own semi-ridiculous promises and a completely ridiculous
level of borrowing.

Still, I have no doubt that they'll promise even more borrowing next
year, represent this as a cut, and claim that it will anyway be paved
from the economic growth that is just around the corner now that they
have created the right conditions for it.

Speaking of shifts in the Press, one of the more interesting tendencies
in the press is now to blame *consumers* for the recession, even to the
extent that they have suggested removing tax incentives to save! (sorry,
but I do feel the exclamation is needed here).  This with the
wrongheaded bleating about how borrowers are having such a hard time and
need the Guvmint to both cut interest rates and pay their mortgages for
them to an even larger extent than currently.  It's gotta be getting
near time that someone stood up and said: "Look, you bought the bloody
house, you took on the debt at variable rates.  It was *your* choice. 
All that borrowing is what got us into this mess in the first place. 
Now quit bleating for someone else to pay it off and pony up."

I suppose if the Guvmint is running on the Micawber principle then it's
not surprising that everyone else is expected to.

>-Jeremy Henderson        egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk   

FoFP
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,soc.culture.british
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phillip M. Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: Mellor: The establishment will again rush to protect their own
Reply-To: hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: DESY ZEUS Central Data Acquisition
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:02:03 GMT

In article <ni0gnms@zola.esd.sgi.com>, livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon
Livesey) writes:
=
|>In article <1992Jul20.150659.7736@dscomsf.desy.de>,
|>hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phillip M. Hallam-Baker) writes:
|>|> 
|>|> Funny isn't it? All those years of hearing from the Conservative
|>party
|>|> that familly values are the way to save the nation. Now one of
|>their
|>|> ministers has been caught with his trousers down the cry is
|>`Invasion of
|>|> Privacy'.
|>
|>Good grief.   What are you babbling about this time?   Are you
|>trying to turn the UK into another US, where no-one knows anything
|>about politics, so they evaluate politicians on their sex lives
|>instead?   "Gee, he doesn't screw around, so I guess that means
|>he can fix the deficit"?

No that is not the problem, the whole cabinet can organise mass gang
bangs in Hyde Park for all I care (so long as I don't have to take
part).

What I don't support is the idea that the Press should not be allowed to
report it. I suspect that given your libertarian principles you possibly
did not realise that this is what was being suggested.


I note that the first five replies in this thread were not protesting
about the threat to press freedom but wanting more salacious details.
What do you guys want, a gif of them copulating in alt.dirty.pictures?
Fat smarmy tory git gets laid with curvaceous cutey, big deal. Ministers
decide that this is proof that the press must be gagged is important
though.

Have other people noticed that the only cases that are claimed show the
need for legislation to gag the press are when a member of the Cabinet
or Royal family gets bad publicity from a true story?


Now we hear from Calvin Macenzie, editor of "The Sun", which is
sometimes refered to as a newspaper that a Tory minister tried to
persuade him to tell porkies about Paddy Ashdown during the election
campaign. So the tory party considers it OK to tell lies about their
opponents but not to have the truth said about them.


Phill Hallam-Baker
Newsgroups: alt.censorship
From: johnm@cajal.uoregon.edu (John Martin)
Subject: Re: Nea = education
Keywords: n
Organization: Institute of Neuroscience, University of Oregon
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 09:59:26 GMT

In article <wePBGzW00VpE0V_EV8@andrew.cmu.edu>, Thomas Omar Smith <ts2a+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>Gotta agree with Ron on this one.  I keep hearing educators talking
>about raising the esteem of students through all sorts of special
>programs.  What they fail to comprehend is that the best way to raise
>the students esteem is to make them LEARN!  Instead, we have schools
>spending money to help students feel better about failure.  If we would
>put that money into teaching the basics, and teaching them well, then
>students could get their esteem from accomplishment, and be better
>equipped for the future.  It is this failing within education, this
>inability to grasp such a basic truth, that has allowed our schools to
>decline so badly.


I couldn't disagree more strongly.  First, I think it is not possible
to "make somebody learn".  Learning can only take place when there is a desire
for it on the part of the student.  Sure, you can force them to sit and
do their time, but unless they're into it, it's worthless.

Second, I don't think it's fair to portray all of this as "helping students
to feel better about failure".  I'll return to his in a moment.

Third, to blame the entire decline of education on this is a blatant and
drastic oversimplification at best.  The decline of the schools is a very
complex thing, adn you'd be hard pressed to find ANY single cause for it.

I say all this as one who has benefitted mightily from the types of
programs that you say are worthless.  I was an extremely poor student,
mostly because I couldn't care less about what was happening in the
classroom, so I didn't go.  These and other, similar programs gave me
the desire to learn.  Really learn.  As a result, I am a functional
adult, with a decent career as a programmer.  I have always given the
credit to the very things you dislike.  In my case, at least, it wasn't
a waste of dollars.  And now I make enough to repay the money through
my taxes.


-- 
John Martin                                        johnm@cajal.uoregon.edu
Institute of Neuroscience,   University of Oregon,    Eugene, OR,    97402
Xref: sparky alt.censorship:6253 soc.culture.british:10643
From: fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Mellor: The establishment will again rush to protect their own
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:11:50 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:

>Well, think about the state of the UK economy. The slump is
>worsening - there is no sign of the recovery that has been
>supposed to be just around the corner ever since 1988 when the
>then Chancellor described the start of the slump as a "blip"

Bzzzzzt. Memory fault Matthew. Chancellor Lawson was referring to what
"the teenage scribblers in the City" were writing about a potential
inflationary boom. I can't remember which figures made them suspect that
such a boom was beginning (money supply aggregates?) but Lawson passed
them of as "a blip". The recession seems to be the downside of the
inflationary boom that this blip somehow grew into.....


>Matthew Huntbach

FoFP
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,talk.politics.misc
From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: The Glorious Constitution (was: [UPI] Supreme Court strikes down...)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:06:31 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Jul23.200455.14655@dscomsf.desy.de> hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:

>Actualy outside the UK single party rule is the exception. Most
>continental governments are coalitions.

  But this is only because they can't get a majority, not because
  there's something of constitutional nature causing it.

>The problem in the US is that the President is now drivinf the whole
>system, he introduces legislation and dominates the entire budget
>system.

  All revenue bills originate in the House (Article 1, Section 7).  
  Actually, I'm not sure the President can even introduce legis-
  lation at all (he can get a Republican flunky to do it, though)
  (I don't have my Constitution handy)   The point is still that most
  legislation is introduced in the Congress.   Much of the recent
  power of the Presidency is not specifically spelled out in the Con-
  stitution (e.g., the powers to start little undeclared wars) but
  exists because recent Congresses have been weak, fractious, and
  indecisive -- something which speaks against the idea that Congress
  is ideologically monolithic.   Lots of little political parties
  would only make that worse.  


>And in the process has developed faster than almost any other in Europe.
>Italy now outranks GB in terms of standard of living.

  So does just about everyone else, but I'm not sure Italy's
  progress is a result of their fractious politics or Poland,
  Israel, and Boston would be the richest places on earth!  8-)


>Despite apperances I don't think such a system is beyond the intelectual
>grasp of the average American.

  How long have you been in this country?    8-)


---peter



Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: hrose@eff.org (Helen Trillian Rose)
Subject: Re: Useless Bots
Organization: The Evil Fascist IRC Admins From Hell, Inc.
	<Bs09A5.BnH@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 18:21:06 GMT

StarWatcher> == StarWatcher  <StarWatcher@uiuc.edu> 

(discussion between asamonte@calpoly and oren@brandeis about CPU usage)

 StarWatcher> Hmmmm....wouldn't regular /notify checks use CPU cycles,
 StarWatcher> and isn't there a little effort required by the /away
 StarWatcher> person's host machine to "display" incoming messages, or
 StarWatcher> sever messages (if usermode is +s)?  I really doubt that
 StarWatcher> many of the bots out there are usermode +s, or have
 StarWatcher> /notify files (but I could be wrong...), while many of the
 StarWatcher> /away real people are/do....

I dunno, I don't *have* any /notify's. (just call me old-fashioned). My
robot (Lumberjak) doesn't have any /notify's either (and Lumberbot's
code is avaliable via anon ftp from ftp.eff.org in
/users/hrose/lumberjak.shar -- and before you go asking, features like
"borg", "magic word", etc, aren't enabled in Lumberjak or in the code
on ftp.eff.org because it's *just* a logging robot. Nothing more. No
auto-greets, no responses, etc).

 : Granted this might be a bad exmaple, but I would rather listen to a real
 : person talk than a robot's limited capacity.

 StarWatcher> *shrug* Dunno about that....there are many folks on IRC
 StarWatcher> for whom it is safe for me to say, I'd rather listen to a
 StarWatcher> bot than them.  Sometimes I can't help but wonder if an
 StarWatcher> IRCbot's IQ is higer than a net.geek's.  (1/2 of a :-)

Actually, a while back (say about 18mos-2 years), Chris Davis
(ckd@eff.org) and I wrote an automaton robot that would sit on a channel
and randomly say "I like [foobar] alot" where [foobar] was something
they saw that just went by in channel convo's. Alot of people *really
thought* that this robot was real.... that is, until the robot said "I
like Hitler alot" (there had been some conversation about WW-2). Quite a
giggle to see what people would believe...


--Helen
--
Helen Trillian Rose             	email eff@eff.org for EFF info
Electronic Frontier Foundation   	irc operators: operlist@eff.org
Systems and Networks Administration	Flames to: 
<hrose@eff.org, hrose@cs.bu.edu>	women-not-to-be-messed-with@eff.org
From: gl8f@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl)
Newsgroups: alt.irc
Subject: Re: Problems with certain people ...
Date: 29 Jul 92 20:28:58 GMT
Organization: Department of Astronomy, University of Virginia

In article <76760@ut-emx.uucp> dougmc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Doug McLaren) writes:

>I will not tell you who is doing it ... I imagine you can figure out who is
>doing it just fine ...

This doesn't make sense. You might as well say it: the person who is
doing this is Scott Yelich, and he's been doing this sort of thing for
years. I had an agreement from his boss at ODU that Scott was not
going to do this again, and indeed he stopped at ODU, but now is
elsewhere. Since he is a repeat offender, I'd advise calling his boss
on the phone and explaining exactly what he does. The logfile should
be sufficient proof.
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: tcws@convex1.tcs.tulane.edu (Bill Sirinek)
Subject: Help me please!
Organization: Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:44:42 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-13106]: convex1.tcs.tulane.edu

Hi! Yesterday I acquired the source for IRC, and am trying to compile...

I read the instructions and README files, and such, and when I go to compile
the code, I get DOZENS of 
"Warning: Extra Tokens after ENDIF; ignored" or something to that effect
this is in most of my .c and .h files.....

I am compiling this in ConvexOS 9.1, a UNIX environment....

Also, it is version 2.1.5g

Please E-mail help.... Thanks in advance!!!!!


--
| Bill Sirinek                     Snail: Box 3799, Tulane University     |
| Computer Science Major                  New Orleans, LA 70118           |
| Tulane University               BITNET: tcws000@tcsmusa                 |
| New Orleans, Louisiana        Internet: tcws@convex1.tcs.tulane.edu     |
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed)
Subject: Re: Useless Bots
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
Date: 26 Jul 92 18:26:25 GMT

oren@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Oren Kastner) writes:

[...]
>Avalon: said that bots are a waste and should be killed on sight, as far as it
>        was his concern.

>        Lesse, here...  Whenever I've been on IRC and did a `/whois avalon' it
>        seems that he is always around -- but most of the time `/away.'  Thus,
>        it seems that avalon is on IRC *AS MUCH* as any other Bot, if not
>        more.  And usually, the bots serve more purpose -- more than likely.
>        In this case, should avalon be killed on sight, too?  He's as much of
>        a waste of bandwidth as any bot that's out there.  Heck, he probably
>        generates more traffic on an over all basis figuring that when he *IS*
>        actually there he /msg's and /traces all over the place, etc...

If you can accurately tell when I am there and arent there, you're
doing better than most of the IRC populous >:-).

And, yes, most bots are a waste because they server little or no purpose
towards the general populous on IRC (as a whole).  If you want something
to sit in a channel all day, everyday, do it yourself like a true
irc.addict and stop pretending you're not.

avalon
Xref: sparky alt.irc:2605 alt.religion.kibology:3284
From: gwydion@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mercenary Programmer)
Newsgroups: alt.irc,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Death to BAD CRAZINESS !
Date: 31 Jul 92 05:38:13 GMT
Followup-To: alt.irc
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <1992Jul29.070522.2165@rat.csc.calpoly.edu> asamonte@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Just some loser...) writes:

>As amatter of fact I was thinking about this the other day, and I thought.
>Is there such a thing as 'good craziness'?  

Ask WiZ.  He did this.

Gwydion.
From: evansmp@uhura.aston.ac.uk (Mark Evans)
Newsgroups: alt.irc
Subject: Re: Useless Bots
Date: 27 Jul 92 12:36:49 GMT
Organization: Aston University

s6883289@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Peter Hawkins) writes:
: In article <91963@bu.edu> jky@buengf.bu.edu (John Yu) writes:
: >HKServ is not a noise maker, just an op-bot.  HKServ's main purpose is
: >to auto-op ppl from a limited list of trusted users who can maintain the
: >channel.  Of course, a major channel needs ops who are responsible to
: >watch over the channel, especially from obnoxious users.  If there were no
: >bots in #hk, or even irc in the whole, then irc would be an unorganized 
: >hell-hole for communication.
Hold on theres the 'needs ops' claim again.
: 
: most of the problematic channels are those that exist without a well-defined 
: purpose. you rarely see much problems in #initgame, #warez #hack because
: these channels exist for a specific purpose, you know what to do when you get
Also people who are _NOT_ interested are (hopefully) disuaded from joining.
: there and their respective users don't like to see you doing unrelated things.
: but in the case of #hk, #asians, #taiwan, you simply don't know what are you 
: supposedly to say there. are they for chatting? for social discussion? for free
: hugs and kisses? heck, i am currently banned from #taiwan because i tried to 
: start a taiwanese language discussion on #taiwan.. :)
This is silly...
Do you mean you have been banned by the resident bot?
: from my experince, the _only_ channel justifies having a bot is #initgame. :)
: logic: i love you!
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Evans                                   |evansmp@uhura.aston.ac.uk
+(44) 21 565 1979 (Home)                     |evansmp@cs.aston.ac.uk
+(44) 21 359 6531 x4039 (Office)             |
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: jonathan.abrams@bnr.ca
Subject: Difficulties with IRC Client
Reply-To: jonathan.abrams@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 16:16:00 GMT

My situation is causing me to have some difficulties in running
an IRC client.  At work, all internet access is directed through
a gateway.  I have access to TELNET. FTP, and EMAIL, but I am
unable to run other programs that use the Internet.  I can however
telnet to a VAX/VMS account I have which can run programs that use
internet.  The problem there is that I have not been able to get
the VMS IRC Client to compile.  I think I would probably need an
executable version.  In addition, I have very limited storage 
space on the VAX and it would have to be small...

I understand that the TELNETable IRC Clients are for temporary use
only, so I need to figure out how to get myself a suitable client
running somewhere.


Newsgroups: alt.irc