HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sdevries@fys.ruu.nl (Sjoerd de Vries)
Subject: Accoustics (was: Mortal Error)
Organization: Physics Department, University of Utrecht, The Netherlands
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 10:30:33 GMT

In <1992Oct9.030035.18210@qualcomm.com> karn@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Phil Karn) writes:

>In article <1992Oct8.161752.20536@fys.ruu.nl>, sdevries@fys.ruu.nl (Sjoerd de Vries) writes:
>|> (25/264)*(25/264) = 0.009. To me it seems highly unlikely that these 
>|> two sounds will be perceived as a "double shot". Conclusion: most
>|> clearly seperated "double shots" will indeed be *two* shots.

>Or perhaps the sounds on the dictabelt were not shots at all, as the
>NRC panel concluded once they determined that the recording was
>made a full minute after the assassination...

>Phil

1. One of the recordings seems to have been a voice activated one.
   Synchronisation of the two channels is therefore very difficult and
   problems therein may account for Decker being recorderd at the
   'wrong' time.
2. The recording of Decker at that specific place on the dictabelt
   may be the result of a jump of the recording head, or (conspiracy!)
   of later overdubbing. A double 60 Hz sigbal was detected,
   an indication of double recording.

BTW, this is the second time that I post this response. First response
didn't get through. This is the third time it happened to me in half a
year. I'm not sure I believe this Conspiring Hacker thing, but it's sure
food for thought.


-- 
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Sjoerd C. de Vries                            | If all else fails |
| Utrecht Biophysics Research Institute         | we can whip the   |
| Dept. of Medical and Physiological Physics    | horses' eyes      |
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: scdorcy@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES DORCEY)
Subject: Re: Accoustics (was: Mortal Error)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 14 Oct 1992 17:12 EST  

In article <1992Oct13.191411.15568@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, 
amm1428@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes...
> 
>Hello, I'm new on this line also, and boy, I was glad to find this conference.
>I have been personally investigating this JFK conspiracy, and I feel that I
>have some leads to who the possibilities are. I have read almost every book
>about the JFK conspiracy and assasination. And would like to present an 
>question, as said in the movie "JFK". 1. Who is in charge? 2. Who has the
>power to cover it up? 3. Who had the most to gain from the assasination?
> 
>	In my opinion, after my extensive research, I firmly believe that I have
>the answers to all these questions.

[stuff deleted for brevity]

>						-The TERMINATOR

Interesting opinions (albeit not original).  Any Proof?

JD
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: It Was The Driver!
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 23:49:20 GMT

Hirsch#m#_Edward@msgate.corp.apple.com (Ed Hirsch) writes:

>Actually the driver was involved.  I you examine the Zapruder tapes, along
>with syncronized audio, closely.  After the first shot is fired, the limo
>driver hits the brakes and turn back to look at JFK.  He turns back around
>and releases the brakes after he saw JFK hit in the head.

>Also, the limo driver had never been to Dallas and was not familiar with
>the area except he knew exactly how to get to Parkland Memorial.

>I think he was involved.  Anyone else agree?!?!?

It's possible, but to give Bill Greer the benefit of the doubt, you
have to remember he was *54* years old on November 22nd.

Fifty-four! 

Without diparaging people in their 50's too much, they are not known
for having speedier reflexes than people in their twenties.

If you want someone to blame, it should be the person who *assigned*
a fifty-four year old to do the driving, and assigned younger agents
with better reflexes to posts farther away from the President.



Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: waf9851@zeus.tamu.edu (FULLER, WALTER ANDREW III)
Subject: Re: mortal error
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 03:11:00 GMT

In article <schuck.718566000@sfu.ca>, Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes...

>FMJ rounds were *designed* to stay together and deform very little
>in order to minimize the horrible wounds soldiers were suffering from
>bullets that mushroomed and/or fragmented.

Get real. Since when does the military supply bullets that won't deliver
"horrible wounds" to enemy soldiers who get shot with them?

>It is *not* normal for an FMJ round to fragment or mushroom.

Wrong again. In fact, it's hard NOT to get a FMJ round to fragment and
especially mushroom. Just look at the test rounds fired into cadavers and
goats which are shown in the Warren Report.

>It is entirely normal for an FMJ round fired at 2100 fps muzzle
>velocity to only lose 200-300 fps when passing through a human body
>unless it hits major bones. The skull is not that thick, certainly not
>as thick as a rib or a wrist bone. Therefore a skull is *normally* not
>going to slow an FMJ round very much. Therefore the energy imparted is
>*normally* going to be very low.

Strike three. The skull is the hardest and thickest bone in the human
body. You can't even BEGIN to compare the skull to a rib! A bullet striking
the skull head on is going to be horribly shredded, fragmented, and
deformed. Brush up on your anatomy!

------------
Walter Fuller
Bitnet:  WAF9851@tamzeus
Internet:  WAF9851@ZEUS.TAMU.EDU

Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: cortez@milton.u.washington.edu (Tom Warner)
Subject: Re: mortal error
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 06:07:05 GMT

karn@servo.qualcomm.com (Phil Karn) writes:

>>JFK was flung backwards and to his left. This was not caused by an
>>echo either.

>No, it was most likely caused by the neuromuscular spasm. I suspect
>your body might possibly react if your brains got blown out, too.

"The neuromuscular spasm." As if it is proven that there was a neuro-
muscular spasm, despite the fact that the wound did not occur in the
area of the brain that, if wounded, is known to cause neuromuscular
spasms. (At least, according to the official record.) Despite the fact
that absolutely nothing about Kennedy's motion after the hit is
consistent with the phenomenon known as a neuromuscular spasm.

Actually, the body does not usually do anything when its brain is
blown out, it usually goes limp, like Kennedy's did.

>Remember also that JFK wore a back brace, which could easily have
>affected his body motions after the impact.

If there were a neuromuscular spasm, JFK's back brace could have been
expected to prevent a radical arching of the back. It would not translate
internal muscular action into an overall motion of the torso to the left
and backward. Nor would it hold Kennedy's shoulders in a slouched position
during this motion backward, or do anything to keep the shoulders from
arching backward.

Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: karn@servo.qualcomm.com (Phil Karn)
Subject: Re: mortal error
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 04:50:08 GMT

In article <6OCT199217104387@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> scdorcy@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES DORCEY) writes:
>If you read the WCR, you will find the "experts" _on_ the WC (which were 
>politicians, not experts) came to some astounding conclusions (such as: 
>despite testimony that some people heard more than three shots fired, the 
>Warren Commission concluded that only three shots were fired because that's 
>how many empty cartridges were found on the sixth floor of the TSBD).

You should quote them carefully, because they chose their words
carefully. They concluded that it was MOST PROBABLE that three shots
were fired, mainly because that was by far the most common eyewitness
account. The discovery of three shells only helped tend towards this
conclusion, it didn't prove it beyond a doubt.

They point out that it's possible that Oswald had carried an empty
shell in the rifle and actually fired only two shots, with both
hitting JFK. That at least two shots were fired was, of course,
certain because of JFK's separate neck and head wounds.

I am much more impressed by a report that explicitly states the degree
of certainty associated with each separate conclusion, even when it
would be extremely easy to assume that a particular conclusion "must"
be true because you've already arrived at a much higher degree of
certainty on a closely related conclusion. Example: there were two
pictures of Oswald holding the rifle in his back yard. Only one could
be definitely associated with Oswald's camera because only that
negative was recovered. Even though the other picture appeared to be
of the exact same scene, taken at most a few seconds before or after,
the Commission still concluded only that it was "probably" taken with
Oswald's camera because they never recovered the negative.

It's for reasons like these that I am much more impressed with the WC
report than with any of the conspiracy theories, which seize on small
bits of noisy "evidence" and blow them up to tell an entirely
different story, all the while ignoring the much larger body of
evidence to the contrary.

Phil
From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: CIA Agent confesses to buying rifles
Date: 12 Oct 92 00:23:06 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


	Supposedly, Morrow bought FOUR Mannlicher-Carcano's, for
	reasons supposedly unknown to him.  He sent three on (which
	were then supposedly used for the assassination) and kept the
	fourth.

... as others have noted, Morrow's rifle is not even the right
caliber.  Various overheated Morrow apologists have "explained" that
there is doubt that the "Oswald rifle" was the actual "right caliber".

   The difficulty is that if a conspiracy using Morrow's rifles killed
Kennedy, and then framed Oswald, they could not know in advance that
no bullets of non-6.5mm (the Oswald rifle) would be found, so if
Morrow's rifle(s) were used, then it would be the height of idiocy to
supply the wrong caliber rifle to pin on Oswald.  That is, if Morrow's
7.35mm rifles were used, then the conspiracy would have supplied the
right caliber of rifle to pin on Oswald.  (Side-comments: A
sub-difficulty of most "giant conspiracies" is that they require the
perpetrators to be alternately rock-stupid and incredibly clever, to
suit the author's thesis.  A sub-difficulty of Morrow's story is that
he was a willing conspirator, was *told* the rifles were to be used on
JFK, and then kept the evidence of his own guilt around for 20-odd
years.)

Charles
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: Hedrick@NIEHS.bitnet (R. Hedrick)
Subject: Garrison's mental discharge
Organization: CSC/NIEHS
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 20:57:18 GMT

I just watched The Garrison Tapes, the pay-per-view special.  In this, a
gentleman, whom I believe is a former producer of the Tonight Show, is talking
about prepping Garrison for his interview.  An implication is made that
Garrison received a mental discharge from the service.

Can anyone confirm this (the discharge).

Scott 
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: albo@terranet.cts.com (Alexander Bosika)
Subject: Re: L. Fletcher Prouty
Organization: People-Net [terranet], Thornhill Ontario 
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1992 05:56:13 GMT

When Fletcher Prouty speaks of trained pros and orders from the highest
level...could he be speaking about Majesty Twelve...I just can see a whole
different theory/realm developing here....

UUCP: zoo.toronto.edu!generic!terranet!albo
ARPA: generic!terranet!albo@zoo.toronto.edu
INET: albo@terranet.cts.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: mortal error
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:40:00 GMT

sdevries@fys.ruu.nl (Sjoerd de Vries) writes:

>In <schuck.718524830@sfu.ca> schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck) writes:

>[...]

>>Olivier also did similar tests. Only one out of 10 skulls filled with
>>gelatin fell off a podium when hit by a 6.5mm FMJ round, and it just
>>fell off, it didn't move with any velocity.

>Do you mean that 9 out of 10 skulls didn't move? Or that they moved
>in the direction the bullet went to?

9 out of 10 moved so little that they didn't fall off the podium they
were place on. I'm getting the information from Donahues interview
with Olivier described in "Mortal Error", but his results are
described elsewhere. Olivier worked for Edgewood Arsenal, and did his
testing for the Warren Commission and/or HSCA.


FMJ rounds were *designed* to stay together and deform very little
in order to minimize the horrible wounds soldiers were suffering from
bullets that mushroomed and/or fragmented.

It is *not* normal for an FMJ round to fragment or mushroom.

It is the fragmentation/mushrooming that imparts the energy
into a head or body.

It is entirely normal for an FMJ round fired at 2100 fps muzzle
velocity to only lose 200-300 fps when passing through a human body
unless it hits major bones. The skull is not that thick, certainly not
as thick as a rib or a wrist bone. Therefore a skull is *normally* not
going to slow an FMJ round very much. Therefore the energy imparted is
*normally* going to be very low.


-- 

All the demands made by the Quebec Nationalists can be summed up in
just one: keep giving us new powers and the money to exercise them, or
we'll leave -- Pierre Elliot Trudeau , 1992

Each new ransom paid to stave off the threat of schism will simply
encourage the master blackmailers to renew the threat and double the
ransom -- Pierre Elliot Trudeau , 1992

schuck@sfu.ca              Vote No on October 26th
  
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Clint Hill -- Testimony on Head Wound
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 17:44:43 GMT


From Clint Hill's testimony to the Warren Commission vol 2 pp 132-144

Clint Hill was the SS agent who jumped on the back of the limo
during the assassination. Hill was actually assigned to the protection
of Jackie Kennedy, and therefore was not out drinking with the SS
agents assigned to JFK until 4:00 am. Thats why he seems to have been
the only SS agent in the follow-up car to actually react.


Mr Specter: What did you observe as to President Kennedy's condition
on arrival at the hospital?

Mr Hill: The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying
in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood
and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs
Kennedy was completely covered in blood. There was so much blood you
could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for
the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.



I like to post the above every once in a while for the benefit of
those who believe the Warren Commission and the HSCA when they said
the exit wound was in the top front of JFK's head.

Clint Hill's testimony on the location of the right rear exit wound is
identical to the Doctors and Nurses at Parkland Hospital and very
similar to where Humes put the wound.



Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: albo@terranet.cts.com (Alexander Bosika)
Subject: Hello...
Organization: People-Net [terranet], Thornhill Ontario 
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1992 05:56:08 GMT

Hello, this is my first response on the alt.conspiracy net. So far, the JFK
discussion has been excellent. Mind you, I have everything on this whole
affair, the man, the brothers, the family. :) Typical JFK nut.
 
There has been one possibly SILLY thing bothering me. I happened to come
across two files that I obtained on Canada Remote Systems a while back. They
were written by a Milton William Cooper. (Probably a pseudonym). In one file,
he speaks of his role in the US Navy and what he saw on UFOs. And the other
file, he speaks about the JFK assassination. Personally, I think its a bogus
file and have heard that he has recanted his theory. The theory is that JFK
was killed by Greer (the driver with a 'mercy shot' from the front...I saw the
Zapruder and it doesn't like Greer shooting anything..however, this man says
he enhanced the film in Japan and is even selling it for $24). Now, this man
theorized that JFk was assassinated because he had knowledge of MJ-12 and the
alien presence. Don't laugh. I laughed too. I don't believe it, but I
definitely will not rule out anything because there is a 'Grand Deception'. To
not stray to far, from the purpose of this thread/feed, has anyone heard this
("silly") theory before, or of this man. Because apparently, he has been to
some World Life Expo in San Diego (1990) and he once again, spoke about the
UFO presence as an Navy guy and even stated at this conference, with LIVE
footage and audience apparently shocked, of Greer shooting the 'mercy shot'.
 
I tried to reach this man with the number in the file, with no luck. He
apparently, lives in Fullerton, CA. Now, if he answers, he might really be
someone. However, I want to know if anyone has seen these files before by this
Cooper, and heard of the UFO-MJ12/JFK assassination connection. I have really
studied the assassination in a lot of way and know about most of the theories,
trajectories, fakes and so on...but I just came across this man's file and
would like to get a hold of him as part of my research.
 
 
Thanks and any responses are welcome.
 
Regards,
 
Alex Bosika

UUCP: zoo.toronto.edu!generic!terranet!albo
ARPA: generic!terranet!albo@zoo.toronto.edu
INET: albo@terranet.cts.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.individualism,alt.censorship,talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines,soc.culture.usa
From: jad@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (John DiNardo)
Subject: What Has Happened to All the Traffic on alt.conspiracy.jfk ?
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:33:18 GMT
Keywords: What has happened to all the traffic on alt.conspiracy.jfk ?

Since about a month ago, I've noticed a drastic decrease in the 
number of articles posted to alt.conspiracy.jfk. So I decided to
count the number of articles posted on a randomly chosen day and 
annonce my count so that others can compare their traffic levels
with the levels that I've been seeing.

For Thursday, Oct. 15th, I counted five articles posted to
alt.conspiracy.jfk. Does anyone have a much different count?
Also, can anyone investigate and determine the average number of
articles per day that were being posted a couple of months ago?
If the average did decrease, was it an abrupt drop or did it
decline at a rather constant rate over a period of months. 
The latter case would suggest that the decline could be due to
a fading of the public's interest in the assassination issue. 

    John DiNardo
From: boyd.naron@citylit.sac.ca.us (Boyd Naron) 
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: CONCERN WITH REAL ISSUES
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:22:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The City Lights PCBoard - Sacramento, CA - (916) 427-0324
Reply-To: boyd.naron@citylit.sac.ca.us (Boyd Naron) 


karn@servo.qualcomm.com (Phil Karn) wrote:

-> You can believe whatever you want -- it doesn't make any difference
-> to me or any one else. I will say, though, that if you are truly
-> concerned with governmental malfeasance, there are many real problems
-> much more worthy of your time than chasing conspiratorial illusions
-> in the JFK assassination. The bloated defense budget, the sustained
-> attack on the bill of rights and individual freedoms, the sorry
-> scandal that is US public education, etc. There are lots of
-> *present-day* authority figures much more deserving of public
-> challenge than the long-defunct Warren Commission.

Good grief Phil, your asking us to forego a "hobby" for a REAL JOB?  Get
a life! (-:  It's fun to speculate.  I don't expect to uncover the final
proof of a conspiracy to assassinate John Kennedy, but I do enjoy
discussing the inconsistencies of the evidence, witnesses, etc.

Boyd Naron
(boyd.naron@citylit.sac.ca.us)
                                                        
From: reykja@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Reykja Sigurdsson)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 09:29:50 GMT
Subject: Re: It Was The Driver!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk


> THE DRIVER DID IT !!!!!!
> 
> 
> HONESTLY 
> 
> JUST WAIT AND SEE WHEN IT ALL COMES OUT!


          NOT!!! It was the devil!

          It was a plot by a Satanic cult which gets it's instructions
by playing Barry Manilow records backwards. 

          Sheesh! I thought *everyone* knew that!!


Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: ac985@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Joel Tscherne)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: HSCA Report For Sale
Date: 7 Oct 1992 13:00:21 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ac985@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Joel Tscherne)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


While un-packing some of my Kennedy assassination books, I discovered I
had two copies of the House Select Committee On Assassinations final
report.  If anyone is interested, I'll put the second copy for sale.

This is the original Government Printing Office edition, which is
officially designated House Report No. 95-1828, Part 2. (Part 1 was a
summary, which is also contained in Part 2).

The report is 686 pages long and is softcover.  It includes the
Committee's findings in both the Kennedy and King cases.  It also
contains an index to the hearings and exhibits of the Committee.

It is in good condition:  the cover and some of the pages are bent
slightly at the corner and it is slightly yellowed.  The binding is in
perfect shape.  

The original list price of the report is $10.00.  I'll take best offer.
Please send EMAIL if interested...

-- 
===============Joel Tscherne:  ac985@cleveland.freenet.edu===============
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk