HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: clochmul@nrambr.chem.duke.edu (Charles H. Lochmueller)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Rifle and Pistol "safety" Course
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:03:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: doug.1992Apr9.080311.18746
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

Just two points of clarification to an otherwise good idea:

1. NRA has no "safety" courses for rifle and shotgun. There is a "Home
Firearms Safety Course" which requires no live fire. The Basic Rifle and
Basic Shotgun courses are taught separately and require a total of ca. 14
hours including range time. Safe handiling is described ansd safety is
stressed but the emphasis is on introduction to rifle shooting and shotgun
shooting technique. Along the way, there is discussion of action types,
ammunition types etc. These are not "safety" courses and Kirk-VanArdsdale {
the insurers} would frown on them being called that. You increase yuour
liability by claiming to teach people safety except in the HFS course.

2. Certified instructors are not and cannot be paid for teaching NRA
Courses. Expenses for materials, travel etc. can be requested. NRA will not
cover you vis-a'-vis liability IF you teach something other than the
syllabus they provide. Certification relates only to the Basic Courses and
not a course an instructor puts together. A flat fee of $85/student would be
high in my experience.

Don't get me wrong. It is a good idea and the offer to teach juniors is an
excellent one. 

C. H. Lochmueller Certified Instructor AFC9069H
Pistol,Rifle,Shotgun,PersonalProtection, Home Firearms Safety, Muzzle
Loading Pistol Rifle Shotgun; NMLRA CErtifeid PRS; N. Carolina Wildlife
Resource Commision Certified Hunter Training Instructor; BSA Rifle Shooting,
Shotgun Shooting MErit Badge Counselor

{almost "certifiable"?}
From: prichard@devon.larc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: book review; "Dogs", by Rien Poortvliet
Date: 15 Apr 92 13:46:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: doug.1992Apr15.084611.20008
Organization: Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co.
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu


The following is a highly subjective review of the book "Dogs" by
Rien Poortvliet, Harry N. Abrams, Inc, Publishers, 1983.  The review is
disjoint because the book is also without overt structure.

Rien Poortvliet's work will be familiar to anyone lurking in mall
bookstores.  He is the artist who did the Gnomes stuff.  He is Dutch, but
his grasp English is better than that of most American high school students.

"Dogs" is an artist's and  dog-lover's celebration of man's best friend.
Each page is an illustration or collection thereof, with some narration
or description.  The illustrations range from charcoal drawings to
full oil-on-canvas work.

Many breeds are reviewed as an artist's exercise.  Then a review of his
household dogs is covered.  various bird-hunting episodes with his GSP
are discussed.  the joys and trials of two new puppies also appear.
Vignettes of the relationship between dog-people and human people are
given.

Now the above does not read like a supportive review.  Yet I have the
highest opinion of the book (and the author).  Merely from the accuracy
of the artwork, and the way he has captured the character of the various
breeds, it is obvious he really knows dogs.  The facial and posture
expressions of breeds I have known personally are remarkably accurate.
Humor often appears, both making fun of dogs and their owners (not to mention
dog-catchers).  He also deals sensitively with aging and death.

Well, a picture is worth a thousand words.  Head down to your local library
or bookstore (same thing for fast readers ;) ) and see for yourself.  I hope
it still is in print, as I am going to order it at the mall next time I
go there (ISBN 0-8109-0809-3).  If one is going to have coffee-table books,
this is the caliber one should have.

--
 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 | Devon Prichard                     The four phases of public office; |
 | Designated Scapegoat                           Nomination, Election, |
 | Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co.          Indictment, Conviction. |
 | prichard@devon.larc.nasa.gov                                         |
 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
From: sl45z@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: 7mm Mag in lever action? NEED ADVICE!
Date: 6 Apr 92 14:19:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: doug.1992Apr6.091936.8577
Organization: Utah State University
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu


	I was recently shopping for a deer rifle when I came across a
Browning 7mm mag. in a lever action.  It felt very comfortable and I
liked it more than anything else I shouldered.  I just don't know
anything about lever actions in a large cal.  I know Browning is an
excellent brand, but I want to know more about the 7mm mag. and how it
is in a lever action.  I shoot left handed, even though I'm right
handed. Will that cause any problems?  Will the action smooth out, or
will I just get used to it.  (seemed to take a lot of strength) How
about accuracy?  Will I be giving any up, not going with the bolt?  I
have the ballistics for the 7mm mag. so feel free to refer to them to
prove a point.  I'd like to know if a lever action would be better in
another cal. also.

	For those who gave me advice earlier on a rifle, thanks.  It
helped me to decide that there is no way to buy one gun for both me
and my wife.  I'll just have to be selfish. *grin*

	Thanks,
		TC
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Re: ARCHERY SHOOTERS
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:53:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: doug.1992Apr14.085325.22399
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Apr13.083200.10151@doug.cae.wisc.edu> toomer@CS.ColoState.EDU (christopher toomer) writes:
>Hi everybody,
>  I have noticed a few posts about archery related topics here, and
>  just wanted to let everyone know that alt.archery does exist.

Unfortunately, not all sites get it.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of making many books there is no end...  |  What's wrong with chasing 
                       -- Eccl. 12:12    |  nebulae till 3 am?  |-(
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: shaffer@achilles.ctd.anl.gov (Michael A. Shaffer)
Subject: Re: .22 centerfires for deer?
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory
Date: 10 Apr 92 09:20:39 CDT
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

>But our laws state we must use a rifle 'not less than .240"
>producing 1700ft-lbs at 100 yards". That, in practice, means a .243
>Winchester upwards. For these species, this is too much gun resulting
>in lots of meat shredding: the .22 centre fires are much better suited
>FOR THESE SPECIES.  Yet for red deer, the 243 is considered by some to
>be not quite enough rifle. (It is, but professional stalkers prefer to
>over-gun their clients rather than under-gun them in order to ensure a
>kill from a possibly marginal shot.) Certainly the .22 centrefires are
>inadequate for red deer. But that doesn't mean *all* deer.

I just thought of a possible option. One might try using an even
larger round but use solids rather than expanding bullets. I have heard
(hearsay alert!) that this technique can give adequate power and not
harm much meat. So if we assume that the .243 might open up to .35 we
could try .35 Rem or .358 Win in solids. Load it to a moderate velocity
and it should (theoreticaly) produce a good blood trail without damaging
a lot of meat. I have heard of people doing quite well on white tail an
thin skinned African game with .375H&H so there might be something to
this. What do y'all think? This would get around the regs against
.22 Center Fire.

>>     The moral of the story -- use the right bullets for the
>>game hunted.

>Precisely.  Use the right tool for the job.  So can we all be a bit
>more specific instead of making sweeping generalisations that are not
>globally applicable?  This *is* an international net, after all.  If
>.22 centrefires are not suitable for, say, mule deer, please say
>exactly that and no more.

.22 would seem a bit light for white tail and cours (sp? you know the
one from the southwest - yes my ignorance is showing) also.

				mike
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Re: Dryocopus pileatus
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:54:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: doug.1992Apr14.085432.22633
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Apr10.092356.28242@doug.cae.wisc.edu> wybranie@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Suzanne Wybraniec) writes:
> 
>Just trying to get attention and impress you with the subject line :-) !

It worked!

>Congratulations on your Pileated Woodpecker.  (This is the big one with
>
>You may or may not be comforted by the knowledge that a lot of people
>would love to see one.  I quote Audubon's field guide: "Despite its
>size, this elegant woodpecker is adept at keeping out of sight.  Ob-
>taining a close view of one usually requires careful stalking."

We used to live in a community where we couldn't seem to get away from
them.  (One like to pound, and holler, just outside our bedroom window
at sunrise.  We moved, for other reasons, across town...and apparently
right into the back yard of another's nest.)

It was great.  How often do you see a crow-sized woodpecker?  Daily.

Oh yeah, we lived toward the north of the Napa Valley, about an hour
north of San Francisco, on top of the ridge on the east side of the
valley.  In the second-largest population center in the county.

>You can't shoot it.  Almost every one of our birds is protected by the
>Migratory Bird Treaty.  This law has extremely severe penalties - if
>some idiot shoots a raptor, in particular, s/he will probably go to
>prison and will owe a lot of money.  

I'd hate to miss seeing each year's crop of young golden eagles playing
around our neighborhood after they leave the nest.  (I suppose you might
call flying up main street at 500' doing stalls having fun...I would.)

Apparently, there are at least three, and maybe five, nesting pair of
eagles in the hills east of town.  We're 30 minutes south of San Jose
these days.

Wonder if I'd see more birds if I moved out into the country?  :}

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of making many books there is no end...  |  What's wrong with chasing 
                       -- Eccl. 12:12    |  nebulae till 3 am?  |-(
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: niemi%astroatc.UUCP@cs.wisc.edu (Bob Niemi)
Subject: Re: How do I catch a woodpecker?
Organization: Astronautics Technology Cntr, Madison, WI
Date: 8 Apr 92 08:35:14 CDT
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Apr2.084345.27689@doug.cae.wisc.edu> you write:
>
>For the past month, a woodpecker has been coming around between
>7:00 a.m. - 8:15 a.m. and pecking the hell out of my house.  I
>already tried putting up owl decoys and stuff like that but that
>only worked temporarily.  I want to kill the woodpecker but I can't
>very well run out of my house and shoot it because my neighbors might
>see me and report me or something like that.  Does anybody have any
>ideas on how I can put some sort of trap on my roof to catch Woody?
>I know they eat bugs, but is there anything else they eat that I could
>use to lure Woody into a trap or something?  HELP!!

My neighbor patched up the holes, then hung tinfoils strips (about 2 by 8
inches) from a string.  The fluttering in the breeze seemed to discourage
them.  I have had flickers hammer my (metal) chimney.  Really wakes you up.
Good Luck.

Bob Niemi, Astronautics, Madison, WI  ...uwvax!astroatc!niemi



Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: crs@beta.lanl.gov (Charlie Sorsby)
Subject: Re: 22 center fire and remaining energy
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: 13 Apr 92 08:35:33 CDT
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Apr10.092029.27786@doug.cae.wisc.edu> you write:
= In Saskatchewan we are legislated to calibres greater than 23, i.e.
= eliminates all 22's for hunting. The only 25 lb deer we have are the
= "young ones", i.e.  bambi's.

Before going on to my questions, I apologize to Jonathan Spencer
for not thinking of the UK's minideer :) when I posted my comments
about *my* criteria for adequate cartridges for deer.  (And I don't
mean that *all* UK deer are minideer--only that they have *some*.
I also didn't think of a smallish deer that we have in the
southwest but with which I'm unfamiliar.  Clearly, my comments
referred to larger animals than 25 pound ones.)

In line with this thread of adequate cartridges for various game,
did anyone besides me see the article about "Optimum Game Weight"
in a recent issue of some magazine?  I remember browsing the
article and intending to return to it for a thorough reading.
As I recall it was a fair-sized article--either a feature or a
regular column devoted fully to OGW, complete, as I recall, with
various formulae.

Now I can neither find it nor recall the magazine it was in.  Help!

[...]
= Some folks with the NRA suggested that 500 ft-lbs @ 100 yd is a
= minimum requirement in the USA. Any comments?

Just as a matter of curiosity, a minimum requirement for what
species?  Or is this to be a floor for all species?

= Does anyone out there have good sources for ballistic info (titles,
= authors and publisher info would be welcomed).

Me too!


-- 
Best,

Charlie "Older than dirt" Sorsby				"I'm the NRA!"
	  crs@lanl.gov


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: kapson@dip.eecs.umich.edu (John Kapson)
Subject: Win Mod 94 (was: Re: 7mm Mag in lever action? NEED ADVICE!)
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: 13 Apr 92 08:36:16 CDT
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Apr10.092111.27941@doug.cae.wisc.edu> voodoo!tomm@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Tom Mackey) writes:
[snip]
>Well, maybe one more data point:  he also had a Winchester Model 94 in
>.32 WSpcl.  I once took it out on a whim as a backup gun and was very
>pleased that I could shoot a nice tight group at ~85 yards with iron
>sights.  I don't remember how tight, but remember thinking at the time
>that I would be able to hit what I aimed at.  Maybe a bit less than 2 in.?

This is the rifle I use for deer hunting.  Mine, too, is a hand-me-down
>from Dad and I really like it.  Last time I sighted it in, I was using
a 180 yd. range (longer than I like, but it was convenient) and was
able to get groups of about 4 inches with factory ammo (Winchester, 170 gr.).

+-----------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| John Kapson   NRA IEEE ACM  |                                              |
| Engineer / Grad Student     |  "Fear a government that fears your guns"    |
| kapson@dip.eecs.umich.edu   |                                              |
| kapson@erim.org             |                                              |
+-----------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
From: cower@csli.stanford.edu (Richard Cower)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Re: Win 94's (?) in 32 Spc.
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:54:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: doug.1992Apr14.085402.22532
Organization: CSLI, Stanford University
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu


When I was a kid living in upstate N.Y. I hunted with an old Win. lever
action in 32 Spl. I recall it had a hexagon (octagon?) barrel, all the blue
(assuming it had ever had any) had worn off. I think it was passed down
when my great-grandfather died. Oh yeah - it had a tang mounted peep
site (which I wish I had now). It might have been a Mod. 94, I'm just not
sure.
We never shot anything larger than a 22 at targets, probably because
of the money involved for larger bullets. I shot that little Winchester at
deer more than once - and never hit a damn thing. In hindsight, it would 
have been a good investment to sight our hunting rifles in once in 
awhile...but...it was never done. I'd wander around where the deer was, 
looking for blood and never found any. I assumed the poor shooting was the 
wear and tear - it had been used a LOT and was incredibly "loose". I think 
the thing rattled when you'd walk with it. 

I have some new Mod. 94's now I got for my kids. I've shot one, and it is 
incredibly accurate with iron sights. I just ordered six peep sights for
them (Williams 5D). A side note, 5D used to mean 5 dollars...buy one today 
and get an idea of what your money is worth - they really did cost $5.

...rich cower
From: gtas1@sunyit.sunyit.edu (Terrance Stedman)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Re: .22 centerfires for deer?
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:02:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: doug.1992Apr9.080221.18562
Organization: State University of New York -- Institute of Technology
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

Although I would never use a .22 centerfire on deer, opting instead for
my 7 mag, my brother recently showed me some reloads for his .22-250
that had Nosler Ballistic tip bullets.  These are the type, although
admittedly much lighter, that I use in my 7mm magnum.  He's using
them for varmints.

My biggest problem with using .22 centerfires for deer is the low bullet
weight (normally around 55 gr).  Articles I've read by Wooters and others
make the claim that deer hit with .22 calibers like the 250 and swift
are hard to track because of minimal blood spoor.  However, if the 
shot is properly picked, tracking may not even be necessary.

	-Terry
From: lovin@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com (Rich Lovin(MIS))
Subject: Re: 7mm Mag in lever action? NEED ADVICE!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA
Date: 10 Apr 92 09:22:39 CDT
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

About your Browning lever action - look at the bolt, it locks up with
a rotary lug arrangement similiar to a normal bolt action rifle.  This
is very strong, and is far better that the rising block used at the
back of the bolt on a Winchester M94. The only way to check accurracy
is to shoot the thing!  Enjoy your rifle, it won't shoot exactly like
a bolt action, but the elk won't know the difference.


Rich Lovin..... lovin@hp-pcd.cv.hp.com

p.s  I just bought a 350 Remington magnum and a 338 Winchester for use on
elk and Alaska's game.  Each to his own!
From: J.M.Spencer@newcastle.ac.uk (Jonathan Spencer)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Re: .22 centerfires for deer?
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:02:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: doug.1992Apr9.080232.18595
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John S. Van Etten) writes:
[liberally edited]

>In response to Charlie Sorsby's comments against using .22
>centerfires for deer [snip]

There's nothing wrong with using them on SUITABLE deer. I emphasise
'suitable' because we hunters must use the right tool for the job. Here
in England, the .22 centrefires would be just ideal for the muntjac
(about 25lbs), roe (about 50lbs), and chinese water deer (between the
other two). But our laws state we must use a rifle 'not less than .240"
producing 1700ft-lbs at 100 yards". That, in practice, means a .243
Winchester upwards. For these species, this is too much gun resulting
in lots of meat shredding: the .22 centre fires are much better suited
FOR THESE SPECIES.  Yet for red deer, the 243 is considered by some to
be not quite enough rifle. (It is, but professional stalkers prefer to
over-gun their clients rather than under-gun them in order to ensure a
kill from a possibly marginal shot.) Certainly the .22 centrefires are
inadequate for red deer. But that doesn't mean *all* deer.

>     The moral of the story -- use the right bullets for the
>game hunted.

Precisely.  Use the right tool for the job.  So can we all be a bit
more specific instead of making sweeping generalisations that are not
globally applicable?  This *is* an international net, after all.  If
.22 centrefires are not suitable for, say, mule deer, please say
exactly that and no more.

===========================================================================
>From  : Jonathan M Spencer
Mail  : Computing Lab., University of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, NE1 7RU, England
Phone : +91 222 8229
ARPA  : J.M.Spencer%newcastle.ac.uk@cs.ucl.ac.uk
JANET : J.M.Spencer@uk.ac.newcastle
UUCP  : !uknet!newcastle.ac.uk!J.M.Spencer
===========================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John S. Van Etten)
Subject: Re: .22 centerfires for deer?
Date: 10 Apr 92 09:20:48 CDT
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

Jonathan Spencer writes:

>[a lot of very valid comments about using .22 centerfires for
> muntjac, roe, and chinese water deer deleted]

>Precisely.  Use the right tool for the job.  So can we all be a bit
>more specific instead of making sweeping generalisations that are not
>globally applicable?  This *is* an international net, after all.  If
>.22 centrefires are not suitable for, say, mule deer, please say
>exactly that and no more.

Jonathan,

     I'd like to sincerely appologize to you and all other non-American
netters about my incorrect use of the term "deer."  My comments were
indeed directed towards our American species (whitetail, blacktail,
mule, etc.), all of which are larger than roe deer.  Thanks for pointing
out my oversight; I'll try not to repeat it in the future.
     Again, I'm sorry for offending anyone.

John

******************************************************************************
               John S. Van Etten     vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu
        Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 1000 MIPS GaAs F-RISC Project
                 --"You can't spell geek without double E"--
From: X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Re: Long-range hunting
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:02:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: doug.1992Apr9.080241.18628
Organization: Texas A&M University
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu


In article <1992Apr6.092047.8828@doug.cae.wisc.edu>
    boardman%cancer.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Bob Boardman) writes:
 
....text deleted....
>  go without responding.  Anyone who sees ANY ethical superiority
>  in sitting on one's butt in a tree stand until a deer wanders by
>  within range (tell me, just where do you see "an element of fair
>  chase" here?),
 
 
   Just to answer your question; when a person is in a tree stand,
that person has no (real) control over where a deer will approach
from.  Many times, I have deer appear behind me, only to run off
when I tried to turn around (deer 1, me 0).  Other times, I have
had a deer wind me from about 150 yards out (through brush that
I didn't feel I could shoot through)  (deer 2, me 0).  Basically,
if the deer can "win", it was a fair chase.
 
   Do I prefer to hunt from a stand?  No.  But my physical condition
usually requires it (walking long distances is simply out of the
question for me).
 
      ----------------------------------------------
Chris Barnes            |  "Success is the realization of your
x005cb@tamvm1.tamu.edu  |       worthwhile dreams" ---  Dexter Yager
(409) 846-3273 (home)   |  "A goal is a dream being acted upon"
(409) 845-8454 (work)   |                          ---  Don Wilson
Newsgroups: rec.hunting