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Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 09:33:08 EDT
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From:         MEG04@ALBNYDH2.BITNET
Subject:      off duty response

In a previous article, Audrey Hill asks about responding while off duty.
She was pretty much directed not to respond.  She is a student at a
university with mostly deaf students.

There are two issues here:
1.  DC FD probably does not have many people who can sign, and she would
have been a help to them.  The first question is whether the university
has worked out some kind of arrangement that assures someone who can sign
responds when an ambulance has been called through the resident assistant,
security, or other university channels.  If so, that problem is solved.
If not, that should be pursued.
2.  The second issue is additional responders at the scene.  As a resident
of a community served by volunteers, and a member of a mixed vol/paid
service, I know that too many people on the scene is at least as bad as
too few.  Chaos soon results, and important things get overlooked.  It is
important to let the folks who have a duty to respond do their thing, while
letting them know that more help is around if needed.  Often staying out of
the way is a major service.  (I used to stop at every crash I saw.  Now,
I only stop if EMS isn't there, my scanner says they are calling for more
help, or something real unusual is going on.  Otherwise, I just stay out
of the way.)

                           Mike Gilbertson
                           (meg04@albnydh2.bitnet)
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Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 09:37:50 EDT
From:         Y01S000 <Y01S@SETONMUS.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Emt Bystander

Audrey,

I can understand your frustratrion.  When I was in college even
though I was a member of the residence life staff, I still got
much resistance to providing the care I was trained for prior to
the arrival of the city EMS unit.  They on the other hand had no
problem with me being there.

You have two options as I see it.  First is to approach the admin-
istration with a group of individuals like yourself in hopes of
forming an "first responder group" to go to EMS calls on campus.
I am sure that there are a number of people of this list who
can give you information on groups they started or worked on in
college.  AT your school this would seem particularly important
since a significant percentage of the populuation is hearing
impaired and most DCEMS personnel probably do not sign.

Second thing you can do is to respond to incidents as you see
them and attempt to provide care until the arrival of the
DCEMS.  The State of NJ apparently has a law that prevents police
officials from interfering with the attempts of an off-duty EMT
to treat a patient before the arrival of an ambulance.  This came
about after a few off-duty EMTs were arrested trying to render care.

Well this is my $.02.  Hope it helps.

David

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
David J. Adinaro                     BITNET: y01s@setonmus
Assistant Director of Admissions   INTERNET: adinaro@setonvm.shu.edu
Seton Hall University                 VOICE: (201) 761-9332
South Orange, NJ 07079                  FAX: (201) 761-9452
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Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 10:11:39 EDT
From:         "Robert G. Kreisel (GWD)" <kreisel@BRL.MIL>
Subject: Re: Pulse Oximeters

Yeah,

We have two medic units that run out of our station.  We have pulse-oximeters
on both.  They are wonderful.  The first major benefit is the ability to
see how well the pt. is being oxygenated.  Often we will get a pt. whose
SaO2 is 90% or so.  After placing the pt. on O2 via NRB mask, we can watch
the SaO2 climb to 98-99%  The detector is in the form of a finger probe
similar to the pulse machine you find in resturant lobbies for a quarter.
The probe is usually placed on the index finger of the pt. (toes for infants)
and it measures both SaO2 (Saturated Oxygen level in blood) and pulse.
The machine also measures blood pressure through a self inflating bp cuff.
(available in multiple sizes).  This is much more accurate than manual
measurements.  We have found, however, to ignore the first reading of BP.
The machine needs to calibrate itself.  The machine also monitors pts,
temperature.  (Orally for adults, or a forehead stick-on for peds.)  The
machine can also be used to monitor the heart (which will also give you
respiratory rate), but we use the Lifepack 5 for that, because the base
unit dose not allow you to print strips, or send strips over the air.
Where the Lifepack 5 does.  The pulse-ox will record information to
allow you see trends in the pt's. condition.  You can also set alarms
to go off when vitals go out of certain boundaries specified by the user.

I recommend pulse-ox's highly.  I would warn you however to make sure
everyone is properly trained on their use.  It seems the older CRT's
and paramedics who are resistant to change, don't even want to bother
with them.  What a shame, it makes our work a whole lot easier, and allows
us to tend to the pts injuries, or illness.

Rob


==============================================================================
                           Robert G. Kreisel, Jr.
  __________        Jarrettsville Volunteer Fire Company
  |AMBULANCE|_o_       Harford County, Maryland Co. 7
  |   791   |---\_               HAZMAT 1-A
  =(*)-------(*)-'                 EMT-A
                              (kreisel@brl.mil)
==============================================================================
From: yhshowie@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Howard Wharton)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: EMT Training in DC area
Keywords: emt
Date: 6 Oct 92 23:46:00 GMT
Distribution: misc.emerg-services
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <luanne.718297743@hq>, luanne@Pt.hq.af.mil (LuAnne Meyer) writes...
>I am involved in some high risk sports (white water kayaking, mtn biking, etc)
>that have potential for injuries in remote areas.  I've been thinking
>it may be a good idea to get some sort of training in emergency first aid.
>                      
>What would be a good course to take that is offered in the DC metro area?
>Can I take an EMT course without becoming a paramedic?
> 
>Thanks,  LuAnne
The first place that I would start with is to contact the local chapter
of the Red Cross and take one of their first aid cources.
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Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:27:37 EDT
From:         "Robert G. Kreisel (GWD)" <kreisel@BRL.MIL>
Subject: [KEN: Re: Pulse Oximeters]

>I hear that a lawsuit was taken up against the hospital, but isn't it always
>a good idea that when it's your butt on the line, and you don't like a
>reading, you should take it YOURSELF?  Anyway, I don't know how true
>
>                                                        FireMAN

Of course.  The interesting thing about machines is, when they work
properly, they are better than human measurements; however, machines
at this time lack intelligence and cannot question a measurement.
When something looks odd, yes!, double check it.  Especially when
dealling with something crucial such as MAST, I would have had the
pulse-ox doing the constant monitoring (every 5 min.) but before
making a major decision like deflation, I would check it myself.

Let me further explain, that a false measurement is usually due to
a problem in the electronics of the machine.  Our pulse-ox CAN determine
if the problem is in the cuff itself, and will let you know that the
measurement can not be trusted.

-Rob



==============================================================================
                                   Robert G. Kreisel, Jr.
  __________                Jarrettsville Volunteer Fire Company
  |AMBULANCE|_o_               Harford County, Maryland Co. 7
  |   791   |---\_                         EMT-A
  =(*)-------(*)-'     (HAZMAT 1-A/Hurst/De-Con/Radiological Monitoring)
                                     (kreisel@brl.mil)
==============================================================================
From: O1EVERT@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU (Tom Evert)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Buzzwords/acronyms used by emergency personnel
Date: 1 Oct 92 06:19:58 GMT
Organization: The University of Akron

Are there books, etc. available that explain buzzwords/acronyms used by
emergency personnel.  I have a partial list of these but its not as complete
as I would like it!  I will send (or trade) my list to anyone who wants it.
 
Please E-mail directly.  Thanks!
 
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
TOM EVERT (O1EVERT@AKRONVM.BITNET) *   LISTSERV OWNER OF OPERS-L
     THE UNIVERSITY OF AKRON       * MAINFRAME COMPUTER OPERATIONS
      INFORMATION SERVICES         *       DISCUSSION GROUP
      AKRON, OH  44305-3501        *
 
  COMPUTER OPERATIONS - A DIRTY JOB BUT SOMEONE HAS TO DO IT!!
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
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Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 12:54:59 -0400
From:         KEN <KAK6279@RITVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      EMT certified bystander.

        To try to emphasize a point already hit around, consider this.  Are
there any people in your fire department that you have decided that you don't
trust enough to risk your life with?  Or just someone who you think needs a bit
more training, or has just moved from a different fire department where things
are done differently??  Well, how would you feel if
   -- You are an EMT, and a bystander offers his EMT experience?  I realize
that all of us are trained to high standards, but I have seen some pretty bad
ones.  The fortunate part is that we are able, in our corps. to see who we are
working with, and what they competently know.  For example, because I have
worked with paramedics for a number of years, I am trusted to set up IV lines.
But when bystanders consistently show up, although they may be the best EMT in
the known world, you just can't be sure.  Now we all know that most of our
calls are capable of being handled by responding crews or there would be more
people on the ambulance.  So with differing protocols, a lack of an idea if
exactly what this person knows, and a health care system that may differ from
what a bystander EMT is used to working in (There are a lot of differences
between upstate and downstate NY alone!!!) it just makes it easier sometimes to
refuse the help of the EMT unless it is totally nescessary.

-- Just like when you ask to help out at a fire.  That chief has no idea not
only whether or not you just joined your department last week, to whether or
not you are trained on their air packs, to thier hose lays, or know who the
officers are.

   It's just something to think about sometimes a less crowded room is an
easier one to work in.  I can remember many times as a attendant, standing
outside of a scene just to make things easier on the rest of the crew.


                                                FireMAN

        Just my $.002 worth!              "KAAAYYYY!"  (LS)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Kenneth A. Kirchoff       --     Henrietta Fire District
     CPU 1293                          Larchmont Mamaroneck Volunteer Amb.
     25 Andrews Memorial Drive          Town of Mamaroneck Vol. Fire Dept.
     KAK6279@ISC.RIT.EDU                 Certified Lifeguard

        "Time is an invaluable commodity, which I am unwilling to waste,
          but I sell it to RIT for $4.51 an hour!" (Damn college jobs!)
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Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 18:56:00 EDT
From:         MHODOSH1@ITHACA.BITNET
Subject:      Information Needed!!!!!

Everyone,
I am in the processes of trying to convince my school, Ithaca College,
that the formation of an EMS system on campus would improve the
current system, and that it would also be of many uses which are
beneficial for the college community.

I need as much information as I can get regarding mostly insurance and
liability figures and companies.  As well as ways which would prevent the
school from being liable.  Also, anyone who knows NY state laws regarding
the formation of such a response group would be of great help.

I would guess that my program would begin as student EMTs who would
responde either on foot or by car providing first aid until the towns
private ambulance service arrived.  If an ambulance was not needed, and
the patient could just be transported to the college health center then
that could be done by us or campus safety.

Eventually, it would hopefully turn into a full working squad with an
ambulance, etc.

Again, I would greatly appreciate any information anyone could provide to
me.  Thanks!

Marc Hodosh
NJ & NY EMT
CPR/BLS Instructor
NJ ER Tech.

MHODOSH1@ITHACA   -   e mail address
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Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 13:27:48 EST
From:         "Taylor, Helena C." <KKVW@MARISTB.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: CISD?

Uhmm..in our corps there are several positions,  the EMT (empty minded
twit), the driver and the third )american red cross first aider that had
been "checked out on the rig"( and there is the observer position.

The observer position is usually where one decides whether or not
one can handle being a "real" (bad word there) member of the crew.
They usually "go-for" this equiptment or that, but also they are
given responsibility on the call (They get their hands dirty).

in that case, the useless go-fer, was a picture perfect blonde who
couldn't do anything. Correct that, she WOULDN'T do anything- even
when asked.  She just would look at her nails and say "I can't do that
I'll get my hands dirty!".....  Thank god she is long gone.


Did that make sense? hope so!

Helena
From: abcs3500@Oswego.EDU (Bill Wood)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: CPR with a toilet plunger
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:03:37 GMT
Reply-To: abcs3500@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Bill Wood)
Organization: Instructional Computing Center, SUNY at Oswego, Oswego, NY


The last I knew, it was being tested in 2-3 areas, including St. Louis.

If I remember right when it was all over the news in June, it is supposedly
more effective than normal pushy-pushy-blowy-blowy (as some friends have
called it), and the patient has a better chance of survival.

It looks strange-- a big suction cup with a gauge on the top, but it
seemed to really move the pt. around (granted, it was a mannikin, but that
thing had some real pull!!


By the way.. if anyone ever has the (mis)fortune to wander up here to the
real windy city, look out: I am now a driver!! GET OUT OF MY WAY!!!!

Bill Wood
SAVAC   

abcs3500@oswego.oswego.edu
racs2150@blurt.bitnet
dais3290@blurt.bitnet

(* boy, any more addresses and I'd need a new zip-code.  *)
From: wesommer@mit.edu (Bill Sommerfeld)
Subject: Re: Fire Reg's
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:56:09 GMT

Hmm.  reminds me of the story from a dorm I used to live in at MIT.
After a particularly massive water fight in one section of the dorm
(with the carpeting completely soaked, and small waterfalls going down
the stairwell), the night watchman was heard to exclaim "This is a
fire hazard!!!"...
--
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
From: fireman@wam.umd.edu (Aaron Joseph Peterson)
Subject: Re: Scanners Also
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 01:40:17 GMT

BTW the radio spectrum as a whole is very large. There is only one small slice
of the spectrum which Congress has made it illegal to listen to.
Wanna know why?
Because the cellular phone company has a very large PAC.
And the law has not been challenged in court yet.

The freedom of speech clause implies a freedom to listen.
Amatuer radio operater (N3JVP) and Firefighter/EMT Aaron Peterson


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Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 10:31:15 EDT
From:         "Robert G. Kreisel (GWD)" <kreisel@BRL.MIL>
Subject: [(Gerry Macridis): Re: Pulse Oximeters]

>
>Would the usefulness of the oximeter attached to a finger or toe decline
>in cases where there is marked peripheral shutdown (e.g., in severely
>hypovolaemic patients)?  How does the ear lobe compare as an alternative
>site for oximeter probe attachment?
>
>--
>Gerry Macridis,      /\/\     .... Email: macridis_g@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

You are correct.  Attaching the probe to the fingers/toes, and getting
a high reading, lets you know that the ALL is being profused properly.
I have heard of using the earlobe, and that would be fine when peripheral
shutdown has occurred.  The probe however is designed for the fingers,
so that is where is fits the best.


==============================================================================
                           Robert G. Kreisel, Jr.
  __________        Jarrettsville Volunteer Fire Company
  |AMBULANCE|_o_       Harford County, Maryland Co. 7
  |   791   |---\_               HAZMAT 1-A
  =(*)-------(*)-'                 EMT-A
                              (kreisel@brl.mil)
==============================================================================
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Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:59:00 BSC
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From:         gomide@FPSP.FAPESP.BR
Subject:      Apologies re: InterMeta course

PLEASE DO NOT SEND MONEY !
It is with regret that I perform this task. Dr. Gelson V. Gomes. a
professor of the University of Parana, Brazil, has exceeded this
privileges and announced a eletronic course:

> ____________________________________________________________
>        Mastering INTERNET Tools, Seizing METANET Power -
>                      The InterMeta Course
> ____________________________________________________________

I must apologize for this flagrant breach of network etiquette. Please
be aware that Dr. Gelson had no right to do so, since this is against
the rules of our ANSP network, and also against the Bitnet rules.
PLEASE DO NOT SEND MONEY!
I will not discuss what his motivations were. But his account has been
revoked, and there will be no such course through my network.

Please write by normal mail, to:
-> Gelson V. Gomes
-> 358, R. Alvaro Andrade - ap.1201
-> Curitiba PR BRAZIL 80610-240
to get more information on his objectives. He may want to give the
course by normal mail.  :-)

With regards,
--
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Software Supervisor     | Rua Pio XI, 1500 - CEP 05468-901 - Sao Paulo
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--
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Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:57:33 EDT
From:         "(Matt Sullivan)" <matthews@LYNX.DAC.NORTHEASTERN.EDU>
Subject:      Re: off-duty response

My mailer has been down for the last few days, so I only caught the
start of this thread, but I'll hump in anyway. I believe that in DC and
in NH, and off duty EMT has a LEGAL obligation to stop at a scene unless
there is help already there of equal or higher training. IE, a first
responder need not stop for a mva if the whole town EMS is already on
scene. BUT, a Paramedic must stop if two First Responders or basic-EMT's
are the only ones on-scene.

Anybody confirm this? It's hear-say to me, but I trust the source.


-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Matt Sullivan  Northeastern University 1996     |
Matthews@Lynx.dac.northeastern.edu              |
MWS@maine.maine.edu   (Vacations Only)          |
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-|
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Conference in New Zealand 1993
From: psyc285@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 04:22:30 GMT
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand

Conference Announcement

Pre Hospital Emergency Care Conference
Hosted by the New Zealand Institute of Ambulance Officers (Inc)
Christchurch New Zealand   October 23 - 24 1993

For more information respond with E-mail or Fax 006403 3640651
                                                                  
I know this is a bit early, but just in case anyone needs to plan conference
leave well ahead of time, I thought it was worth the effort.
More details of papers and speakers as they come to hand.

Ijan Beveridge                      Christchurch Ambulance Service
From: jrd5@po.CWRU.Edu (Jacob DeGlopper)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: off-duty response
Date: 1 Oct 1992 00:17:37 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: jrd5@po.CWRU.Edu (Jacob DeGlopper)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, matthews@LYNX.DAC.NORTHEASTERN.EDU ("") says:

>start of this thread, but I'll hump in anyway. I believe that in DC and
>in NH, and off duty EMT has a LEGAL obligation to stop at a scene unless

Not in DC.  Everyone seems to have heard a different state; Vermont is
currently my best guess...
-- 
        Jacob DeGlopper, EMT-A, Wheaton (MD) Volunteer Rescue Squad
           -- CWRU Biomedical Engineering - jrd5@po.cwru.edu --
              jue@epaibm.rtpnc.epa.gov / JUE@NCCIBM1.BITNET
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Date:         Sun, 27 Sep 1992 20:09:23 -0400
From:         KEN <KAK6279@RITVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Lifeguard question.

        I'm not entirely sure, but I do know that for one thing the New
Rochelle, NY police department dosen't allow their officers to perform first
aid or to lift patients.  Also, many organizations like the Monroe County
Sheriff's Dept.  (Near Roch.) also does not perform first aid.  Often, they are
found ouside hanging around waiting for the ambulance in cases of full blown
cardiac arrest!

PS - Congrats to all the new EMT's out there.  I just found out that I passed
my NY Basic class yesterday.

                                                        FireMAN
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services