HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen)
Newsgroups: aus.music
Subject: Defending the indefensible (was Re: Debate Time!)
Date: 6 Oct 92 21:35:44 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd

In <1992Oct6.045835.27229@usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU> chuck@spectrum.cs.unsw.oz.au (Mark Andrew Hawling) writes:

>In article <1992Oct1.171345.15193@tpl68k0.tplrd.tpl.oz.au> markb@tplrd.tpl.oz.au (Mark Bower) writes:
>>		Phil Collins/Genesis
>>
>>		or
>>
>>		ELO
>>
>>Come now, lets have sensible arguments now... %^)

No contest - Phil Collins. His music is overblown, turgid and boring.
The best song he ever did was that remake of a Supremes hit.

>ELO on the other have thankfully disappeared but probably were one of the worst
>of the worst. But dont forget the other major bores such as Steely Dan or
>the Alan Parsons Project.

ELO, on the other hand, could be viewed as quite interesting. It is a 
pity that people pick up the 'everyone else bashes them, so I will too'
mentality. Most people liked ELO when they were around. It lacks courage
to bash them now - their music hasn't changed, and in hindsight appears
a lot more interesting than other music of the time.

Jeff Lynne always had a good line in melody, and a reasonable feel for
the beat. And, most telling of all, he wasn't disco. Any of these concept
groups from the 70s are no worse than most of the groups around now, except
they are old. Obviously some of you have a problem with that. That's fine,
don't listen to the music.

>Still there are the new horrors such as Don Henley, Michael Bolton,
>Bryan Adams..

Exactly my point. There is always bad music around. You don't need to 
denigrate perfectly good music of the past in some knee-jerk generation
gap reaction. 

And in case anyone is wondering, I have 1 ELO CD, but 2 Hummingbirds CDs,
so am quite able to take the best of both eras.

regards,

-- 
thos cohen  				       |Softway Pty Ltd
 The best way to make a Japanese engineer wince|ACSnet:         thos@softway.oz
 is (when talking about an NSX) to say slowly  |UUCP: ...!uunet!softway.oz!thos
 'but its _not a Ferrari_ is it?' R.Bulgin, CAR|Internet:    thos@softway.oz.au
Newsgroups: aus.music
From: pet@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (paul eng-yi tan)
Subject: Re: musical taste? (Re: The Kylie file .... for your eyes only!)
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Distribution: aus
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 04:41:40 GMT

cde@mulka (Colin Entwisle) writes:
>	I reckon kylie goes ok!
>	Admittly I don't own any of her records; but when a KM song
>comes on the radio I don't mind (where as if Phill Collins or such 
>like came on I would change station).

Same here, I would much prefer some Kylie on radio compared with PC or
Midnite Oil or other stuff I don't like. That's just my taste. I even
admit to having liked the old Kylie music. That's just my musical taste.

>	I don't understand why everyone seems so worried about whether
>she writes her own stuff or how much she does when she co writes.
>Why do these self righteous musical wankers need to question this -
>why is it so important?

That's not it. What I object to is claims about her extreme brilliance
and superiority, based only on Chart success and Aria Awards. I have
no ethical/moral objection to an artist who doesn't write music, only
performs. I mean, how many of our favorite orchestras perform music they 
wrote themselves? The difference is: they don't conceal the fact that
they don't write the music, and noone mistakenly gives them credit for
writing the music.

>	What is so unacceptable about her and her sucess?
Nothing! However, there's no reason for people to claim she's brilliant
when the success is the product of marketing, image, and management
as opposed to musical talent.

ALL IMHO! :)
Paul

--
Second Hand vinyl for sale: Depeche Mode, Indie, Severed Heads,
Beloved, New Order, Pet Shop Boys, Stone Roses, Inspiral Carpets,
Cabaret Voltaire. Also X1 as NEW $88US, $110AUS.
Newsgroups: aus.music
From: brian@mel.dit.csiro.au (Brian May)
Subject: Re: Beastie Boys
Organization: CSIRO DIT (Melb.)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 04:35:07 GMT


In article <3291@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU>, cde@mulka (Colin Entwisle) writes:
|> 
|> 	I know they're not Australian, but they are here
|> at present so I thought I could do a quick review of their
|> performance at the Palace on Friday night.
|> 	Energy level was very high - but then Palace crowds would
|> probably slam and stage dive to the MSO.

Absolutely - there was a fair bit of fighting down the front too.  Perhaps
the 45min-1hour break between the Meanies and their start didn't help.
What amused me was the crowd of woolen-beanie weraing fans in the exhausting
temperatures of the Palace (at last, the Palace now supplies _glasses_ of
water for free - previously you had to buy a bottle)

|> 	They did an almost ideal mix of rap and funky grooves.
|> They had instruments (may not seem like a major thing - but anyone
|> who has seen an international rap act will appreciate the significance
|> of this!).

Yes - a hot hammond organ player (Groove Holmes) who features quite heavily
on their new album.  Their percussionist had superb rhythm also.  You could
tell by listening wether he or MikeD was at the drumkit.  I did notice a
keyboard player hidden off the far right sometimes, but couldn't tell from 
the mix what he was doing.  Also noted an additional guitarist floating
the same area 1/2 hidden.  Nevertheless, the core of the Beastie Boys could
play......and pogo at the same time!

The Hardcore songs fitted in well also.

|> 	They were brilliant - what they lacked in talent (and that aint
|> much - I'm talken compared to prince or someone) they more than made up
|> for in attitude.

Agreed - apart from a few suspect sentances from MikeD.

|> 	I gotta feelen they did their last melb gig last night -

Last Melbourne show was indeed Sunday.  Others should get a taste of this great
70's funk-rap-hardcore show.  Supercharged!

brian
--
| Brian.May@mel.dit.csiro.au |           Open Systems Program           |
| CSIRO/DIT, 723 Swanston st | TEL +61 3 282 2613 -- FAX +61 3 282 2600 |
|Carlton, VIC 3053, Australia|          Experimental Scientist          |
From: t9014155@phillip.edu.au (T-BONE)
Newsgroups: aus.music
Subject: Re: Flea... (was: Severe gripes)
Date: 5 Oct 92 14:47:16 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: RMIT (Bundoora Campus)

In article <summer.717915050@mamura>, summer@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (Mark Summerfield) writes:
> You missed listing Flea's filmography. Off the top of my head, he was in:
> 
> Dudes (directed by Penelope "Wayne's World" Spheeris)
> Back to the Future III (Played a punk called Needles)
> My Own Private Idaho (one of the gang...)
> 
> Quite a multi-talented character (although he's type-cast in these three).
> Any others anyone knows of?

Point Break - Played a Druggie!
-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"                                             "       _	   THE BAT    _       "
|   ________    ______________  ___________   |      __:_           _:__      |
"  (___  ___)  |      )  \    )(   )   ____)  "    ./::::\  .^-^.  /::::\.    "
|     |  | ___ | |)  /    \   \|  |   (__     |   /::::::::v'   `v::::::::\   |
"     |  |(___)|    <  ()  )   \  |    __)    " ./::::::::::|   |::::::::::\. "
|     |  |     | |)  \    /  |\   |   (____   | |:::/^\:/^\:/\ /\:/^\:/^\:::| |
"     |__|     |______)__/___)(____)_______)  "  V     V      V      V     V  "
|                                             |                               |
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"     t9014155@phillip.edu.au                 "tbone@arcadia.mc.phillip.edu.au"
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Newsgroups: aus.music
From: c9221777@cc.newcastle.edu.au (Brother Redeye)
Subject: Stop winging and do something!
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 04:22:13 GMT

I have noticed while skimming through a few of the posts here that some people
seem to object strenuously to the existance of the top 40 charts here, or at
the very least object to top 40 music.

Fine.  Dare I then suggest that you get your hands on the
alternative/independant charts and post them?
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All opinions expressed herein are my own and do not reflect those of the
University of Newcastle ... but then again, as I have to pay to use these
facilities anyway, who really cares?!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Send all hate mail to: c9221777@cc.newcastle.edu.au
                   or: c9221777@wombat.newcastle.edu.au
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: aus.music
From: jamie@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Jamie Scuglia)
Subject: KYLIE - hot in Wantirna, Victoria
Originator: int376f@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au
Organization: Monash University
Distribution: au
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 09:47:22 GMT

On Fox-FM's (101.9 FM) listner run countdown, the 11 most
popular songs from Wantirna are being played, and Kylie comes in
at #3 with "What kind of fool".  WOW!!!  Just watch this
record go!!!! 

 __^__                                                         __^__
( ___ )-------------------------------------------------------( ___ )
 | / |   ___                        ()                _        | \ |
 | / |  (   >                       /\               //        | \ |
 | / |   __/___.  ______  o _      /  )  _. . . _,  // o __.   | \ |
 | / |  / / (_/|_/ / / <_<_</_    /__/__(__(_/_(_)_</_<_(_/|_  | \ |
 | / | <_/                                      /|             | \ |
 | / |-----------------------------------------|/ -------------| \ |
 | / | 3rd Year Student at  |  int376f@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au | \ |
 | / | Monash University,   |  jamie@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au     | \ |
 |___| Melbourne, Victoria  |  jamie@mydec.pakenham.vic.au     |___|
(_____)-------------------------------------------------------(_____)
   ^                                                             ^
From: cde@mulka (Colin Entwisle)
Newsgroups: aus.music
Subject: Beastie Boys
Date: 5 Oct 92 01:09:56 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3


	I know they're not Australian, but they are here
at present so I thought I could do a quick review of their
performance at the Palace on Friday night.
	Energy level was very high - but then Palace crowds would
probably slam and stage dive to the MSO.
	They did an almost ideal mix of rap and funky grooves.
They had instruments (may not seem like a major thing - but anyone
who has seen an international rap act will appreciate the significance
of this!).
	They were brilliant - what they lacked in talent (and that aint
much - I'm talken compared to prince or someone) they more than made up
for in attitude.
	I gotta feelen they did their last melb gig last night -
but if you've got a chance else where check it out!
	No doubt about it gig of the year!
				
				CE

Newsgroups: aus.music,rec.music.misc
From: pet@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (paul eng-yi tan)
Subject: Re: well fuck you baby...
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Distribution: aus
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 08:01:33 GMT

jamie@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au writes:
>>>(1)---> The Aussie top 10 singles chart is having a major shake up
>>>this week!  Rocketing up from number 4 all the way to number one
>>>is Billy Ray Cyrus, with his first ever Australian charting single,
>>>called ACHY BREAKY HEART.  This single comes from his album,
>>>SOME GAVE IT ALL, which crashes in at number 3 on the Australian
>>>albums chart this week.
>>Jamie, you should be in marketing. "Rocketing" up 3 places? What would
>>you have said if it had gone up 4, 5, or (shock horror) more places?
>>"Crashing" into the charts? Where the hell was it going at the time
>>(and why the hell didn't it stay there?).
>When a single moves up 3 places when it is near the top of the
>charts, it usually means a large increase in sales.  Obviously
>if a single moves up 3 places, from number 99 to 96, then that
>would be nothing.  

*grin* hehehe this discussion seems like deja vu! Remindse of the
time you said Kylie's single "CRASHED" into the top 100 (more likely
top 4IMHO. I haven't heard a top 100 show here. But then, I don't
memorize the charts either) at number ... 37 !!!!! WOW!!!!!!

Not saying you're WRONG really, but just over enthusiastic :) 
Paul

--
Second Hand vinyl for sale: Depeche Mode, Indie, Severed Heads,
Beloved, New Order, Pet Shop Boys, Stone Roses, Inspiral Carpets,
Cabaret Voltaire. Also X1 as NEW $88US, $110AUS.
From: colb@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (Colin Burvill)
Newsgroups: aus.music
Subject: Re: Debate Time!
Date: 2 Oct 92 09:08:34 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: University of Melbourne, Australia

In article <1992Oct1.171345.15193@tpl68k0.tplrd.tpl.oz.au>, markb@tplrd.tpl.oz.au (Mark Bower) writes:
> So, net music lovers, who do you thing is worse:
> 
> 		Phil Collins/Genesis
> 
> 		or
> 
> 		ELO
> 
> Come now, lets have sensible arguments now... %^)
> 
> Psychic Regards,
> 
> Mark
> -- 
> <\\\ Aliens will never visit  while Bryan Adams still gets airplay <'\
>  >>>>===============================================================>->
> <///   markb@tps.com                        markb@tplrd.tpl.oz.au  <,/


I used to like all these performers. I've got all the old genesis albums 
and whenever they released a newee, it was always a must-buy. Until... 
their latest. They've finally worn me down. I've out-grown/lost-interest/etc 
Genesis! They've finally reached their homogenised form. 
Phil Collins. Loved 'you cant hurry love'. But one song does not a legend make. Again, I'm tired. Tired of the receeding hair and chummy image. 
ELO. Loved their early stuff. But, hey, doesn't everyone. They really went  
downhill when...blah blah blah... 
Ran out of energy for these guys when I realised jeff-lynn was singing into 
some shitty synth-box. Don't get me wrong, I love Laurie Anderson's stuff, 
but jeff never really took it anywhere. 
I like the reference by mark to 'worse'. 'Least worse' is a good measure. 

My vote... i think Mark Bolan is worst.
 
ps. Give kylie a break. She could park her slippers under my bed
(and her $$$ in my account) anytime.
 
 
Colin Burvill
colb@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au
128.250.20.3
From: jcollier@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (John Donald Collier)
Newsgroups: aus.politics
Subject: Re: Will Victorians vote stupid yet again...?
Date: 5 Oct 92 05:47:10 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: University of Melbourne, Australia

In <miw.718259966@cc.uq.oz.au> miw@cc.uq.oz.au (Mark I. Williams) writes:

>Hmmm. Reaganomics-driven deregulation of banking. Typical of the facile
>economic arguments that grace this newsgroup. Sure there was a general
>deregulation of banking in the 1980s, but it was driven by a hell of a
>lot more than the policy of one country, however big. There have been
>books written about the reasons and consequences of the deregulation of
>finance markets, but of course you just blame it on Reaganomics, because
>you can't be bothered to read the books, right?

Actually, I get most of my information from a friend and former
colleague who now is a trouble shooter for American Express 
Banking. 

You're right, I don't have a lot of time to read books, and the
explanation is more complicated.

Unfortunately, with politics working largely, during elections, 
at the level of sound bights, anything more than facile
reasoning is pointless.

In any casse, the effects of deregulation on banking were
both predictable and predicted before the event. Yet gov'ts
went ahead with it because it was politically correct (or
more sinisterly, they were out to benefit their friends).

-- 
John Collier 			Email: jcollier@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au
HPS -- U. of Melbourne		  	Fax:   61+3 344 7959
Parkville, Victoria, AUSTRALIA 3052
Newsgroups: aus.politics
From: info301a1@cc.newcastle.edu.au (Manfred Hanley)
Subject: Re: Free Speech and ACP
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 20:02:36 GMT

In article <996200271@peg.pegasus.oz.au>, cwarren@peg.pegasus.oz.au writes:
> ****** free speech and our capo-anarchists *******
> 
> Do private corporations have special rights to act
> unethically or avoid community standards?.  Only in the
> dream-State of capo-anarchy - I hope.

So choosing not to publish something which merely advocates one
point of view on a personal issue (smoking) is avoiding community
standards and being `unethical'. A little dramatic, hmmmm?

> Even if they are "free" their act is still censorship and more
> intelligent people than Lam should still ask questions about the
> influence of corporations on the news (and other aspects of social
> life) that we are fed.

I am yet to hear you complain about the act of wanton censorship
whereby the federal government will _censor_ foreign magazines
with cigarette ads. In other words, you can look forward to buying
foreign magazines with pages completely blacked out - just because
there's a cigarette advertisement on that page. And remember, smoking
is legal; the government even receives large amounts of revenue from
it. Just because some other _private_ groups believe that it is harmful
we are being subjected to this censorship.

> To Lam-bleat that "ACP can't stop others publishing what they
     ^^^^^^^^^
This is good - let's make fun of someone's name. A truly convincing
argument.
> want" only avoids the issue of ACP stopping people reading other
> than what ACP feels convenient.

Something like if a `Quit for Life' or similar magazine rejected
an ad. from Philip Morris or Rothman's???

> Censorship based on community standards is (arguably) acceptable -
> censorship based on commercial interests by private corporations
> like ACP, against the community interest and in defiance of
> community standards is morally repugnant as is every banal
> keystroke from our capo-anarchist Lam.

If someone wants to buy the magazine than that means that they want
its contents. Those contents are shaped by the editorial board. If
you have a problem, hassle the board or boycott them, but don't try
suggesting that because a submission is rejected, it is 'morally
repugnant.' If you started a hunting newsletter and I submitted an
ad. which stated that firearms should be banned, etc. I'm sure that
you'd reject that, too. It's all a matter of choice since both are
(still) legal.

BTW, if you choose to follow-up to this, remember that we're attacking
a legally accepted issue here, not each other. Just because you disagree with
a person's viewpoint is hardly justification for vilifying them.

P.S. What is capo-anarchy?!?

Manfred.
From: mjt@anl.oz (Michael Tuke)
Newsgroups: aus.politics
Subject: Re: Jeff Kennett's victory speech - positive and forward thinking
Date: 5 Oct 92 13:51:42 GMT
Organization: ANL Ltd (The Australian National Line)

From article <rfeadf.718118171@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU>, by rfeadf@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Andrew Finegan):
> 
> The Premier-elect, Jeff Kennett made his victory speech at about 9:50pm
> this evening.
> ... I guess it was just a slip of the tongue (I sincerely
> hope it was not a Freudian slip), but instead of saying:
> 
> "the vast majority of Victorians....."
> 
> it came out as (wait for it!!!):
> 
> "the vast majority of VICTIMS......"
> 
> ANDREW FINEGAN   (Standard Disclaimers)     | RMIT Centre for Remote Sensing

Andrew you can't have been sensing too well for the last four years!
Jeff Kennett's statement was in the context of looking from the
present to a more positive future. If Victorians are victims right
now, it is of ten years of Labor incompetence, far worse than in any
other state during that period.

-- 
Michael Tuke			Phone:	(03) 869-5364	My opinions, not
Information Technology Dept.	FAX:	(03) 869-5110	my employer's.
ANL Ltd				ACSNET:	mjt@anl.oz		OK?
432 St. Kilda Road, Melbourne, 3004.
From: Gary.Woodman@anu.edu.au (Gary Woodman)
Newsgroups: aus.politics
Subject: Re: Free Speech and ACP
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 01:51:58 GMT
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
NNTP-Posting-Host: gurrung.anu.edu.au

In article <1992Sep23.115756.6952@newshost.anu.edu.au> apr110@rsphy7.anu.edu.au (Anthony Roberts) writes:

>ACP cited the reason for refusing the add was because of its offensive
>nature: they claimed it encouraged children to smoke. As it is

Obviously the fairy tale is reaching a high status in Australian society 
these days.

>Thus ACP's censorship can only be seen as a violation of free speech.

So what's new? I don't watch their TV stations, I don't read their 
publications and I don't listen to their radio stations. They can stick it 
up their bank balance and smoke it.

>Alternative sources of media that you should know about; Modern Times -
>a monthly magazine on
>current affairs and culture; Broadside Weekly - alternative weekly press
>based in the labour and 
>alternative movements; Green Left weekly - alternative views, paper of
>the Democratic Socialist Party.
>They will not survive without support from the Australian public.

Thanks for this - don't forget the ABC!

--
Gary.Woodman@anu.edu.au         This post made from 100% recycled electrons.
Newsgroups: aus.politics
From: suter@fawlty8.eng.monash.edu.au (Mr D. Suter)
Subject: Re: GST - Bloody Stupid
Organization: Monash University
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 12:13:40 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.081215.15398@newshost.anu.edu.au> ajg620@huxley.anu.edu.au (Andrew J Greinke) writes:
>>cwarren@peg.pegasus.oz.au writes:
>>: 
>>:            
>>:            Liberal GST, a generally stupid tax, is showing signs of
>>:             
>>:
>>:	[Many cases of how costs will rise by 15%.]
>>:
>
>Do you realise that already many goods on supermarket shelves are taxed at
>15%, some at 20% or 30%.  Many of these "hidden" sales taxes will be removed
>and replaced by a GST.  One advantage which I think will result is that by
>bringing taxes out into the open, it will be substantially more difficult
>for any government to raise them without good reason.
>
>Under current arrangements, toilet paper is treated as a LUXURY item and
>taxed at the highest sales tax rate.
>
>By applying a single rate, GST will also simplify disputes over classification
>of goods:  is an iced vo-vo a food or a confection?  Note the current fiasco
>with the recent amendments to the Sales Tax legislation, and the 
>fundamental drafting errors discovered in the Senate.

These two points don't seem to be highly promoted by the LIbs - Hewson
keeps harping that he has to "sell the tax" but really doesn't seem to be
doing a good job (the old "it's all part of a complete package called
fightback" may well be a valid point but I fear it stetches
that intellectual capacity of the average Aussie in the street)
(and far surpasses that of the average journo).

I think the explicit nature of the GST is one of its best features
(I can hear the howls already from the average person about
"complicated nature" of having a quoted price and then allowing
for the tax as a separate item on every goods/services bought.)
but I think it would be a tremendous step forward (with or without
the trappings of GST/fightback) if everything we purchased detailed
exactly on the docket how much the  government creamed off.
That should include tarrifs and other government charges as well as straight
sales tax!
d.s.


-- 
David Suter - Dept. of Electrical and
Computer Systems Engineering, Monash University,
Clayton, Vic. 3168, Australia
ph 565 5682 Fax 565 3454
Newsgroups: aus.politics