Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 05:18:57 EST
From: <PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu>  Andronikos Romanos
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: What sort of History is this?


I have not been criticizing  Vasil Babamov  (vkb57@cas.org)  for
claiming the existence of a Macedono-Bulgarian kingdom (Tsar Sa-
muil!!!), etc. for other netters did,  and because I think it is
futile...  I merely posted an extremely ahistorical, yet amusing,
excerpt of a source he praises,   where  THE  PARTICULAR  AUTHOR
claims that during the second Balkan War, all Greeks, Turks, Bul-
garians (Albanians, Montenegrans too?) fought against the Serbs!

" The two Balkan Wars of 1912 and 1913,  involving  no fewer than
 four nations,  were both fought for Macedonia;  the first to li-
 berate Macedonia from the Turks,  the second to liberate it from
 the Serbs."


Here is V.Babamov' reply of Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:11:59 GMT  and my
comments:

> In article <92346.045047PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu>   <PXP111@psuvm.
> psu.edu>  Andronikos Romanos writes:
>
>> Vasil Babamov (vkb57@cas.org) copied an article from the "New
>> Republic,"  Dec. 21,  under the newsgroup-title  GREK TAKEOUT
>> <Message-ID:1992Dec10.190539.23691@cas.org>.
>>
>>  I will not comment of the  one-sided analysis of the current
>>  situation presented in the article. Yet, I thought that some
>>  excerpts would appear as extremely amusing to the netters -as
>>  far as historic punctuality in concerned!!!
>>
>>> Kaplan has written  extensively  on issues related to Macedo-
>>> nia. Robert D. Kaplan is the author of the forthcoming  "Bal-
>>> kan Ghosts: A Journey Through History" (St. Martin's Press)
>>>
>> OK! In that case we should be a bit more critical if we decide
>> to test him in his "field" of expertise...
>>
>>> The two Balkan Wars of 1912 and 1913, involving no fewer than
>>> four nations,  were both fought for Macedonia;  the first  to
>>> liberate Macedonia from the Turks,  the second to liberate it
>>> from the Serbs.
>>>
>> And this is the history of the Balkans re-written!
>> I sincerely hope the "author"  had cared enough to open an en-
>> cyclopedia  just to cover the basics about the region,  before
>> "informing" the rest on the "Journey Through History"!! Is the
>> paper of the book recyclable?
>>
> As far as I remember when I was quoting passages from encyclo-
> pedias you were finding them far from convincing.

Actually, this is not entirely true.
In my posting of Thu, 25 Jun 1992 16:35:17 EDT,  I criticized you
for using a book that is supposed to be specialized over ONE  is-
sue: GROUPS IN AMERICA.
You used it  AS  PROOF  of Balkan history and we had the same mix
up. The ODB and other publications that are more specialized over
issues of history were in SHARP CONTRAST to your "evidence".
I was using the PROPER ENCYCLOPEDIA   and  NOT  you.
(Anyway, whatever happened to the other sources you said you had?
 Whatever happened with the test of the Macedonians  I  asked you
 to call and check the theory that they would speak in a language
 other than Greek?)

> Why is it that  practivcally  all the reputable journalist that
> write for major newspapers and magazines tend to write "one-si-
> ded" reports.

Three points here:
--> I do not know what ALL other journalists you mean. What did I
    say against them?  I might want probably to write, but I har-
    dly have time for this...
--> This "reputable" journalist had even his basic facts on  Bal-
    kan history wrong. This is not the kind of thing I respect on
    a journalist.
--> This particular story was one-sided.  I said in the beginning
    that I  would not like to discuss it further,  but  in a nut-
    shell the point was:  "The Serbs are the only responsible for
    all the wrongs in the Balkans." They were painted in the dar-
    kest colors, put into the position of those provoking all the
    rest, even for the things they did not do,  and  when all the
    rest were not even... fighting against the Serbs!

> You sound like a bright guy too,

Thanks for the compliment. If I may inquire though who is (are)
the other (s)  "bright guy too".  Do not take me wrong,  I sin-
cerely  want your opinion on those you think highly of  in this
network, so that I know to whom I am compared to.

> could it be that you are pre-judiced on this matter.

Two points here:
--> Could it be that it is you ?
--> I quess I could be  but against whom?  I merely  said  that I
    haven't  heard a version of the  Balkan Wars  where the rests
    tried to liberate Macedonia from Serbia.  And I mean the Bul-
    garians, the Montenegrans, the Greeks and the Turks  (did the
    Turks get a permission from Bulgaria to  pass  their  army to
    the Serbian frontier?)

> Vasil Babamov
                                                        A.Romanos