From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: fj.misc
Subject: Re: There's-only-one-Truth-ism?
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:07:05 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

mtachiba@rkna50.riken.go.jp (Masahiko Tachibana) writes:

>This article from fj.misc is cross-posted to fj.soc.culture.

I didn't see any cross-post in the Newsgroups: line so I left it as
it was...

>In article <2168@aegis.or.jp> davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:

>>For example going back to the RiceReport, when I asked people how
>>long they kept rice before eating it, they tended to give a "We
>>Japanese" kind of answer. But I've been playing this game too long
>>to just let it go and kept asking questions until I had some
>>concrete answers. And found, as usual, that people keep rice
>>differing amounts of time. And, as usual, there was great surprise
>>because after all, "Japan has a homongenous society and everbody does
>>things the same way" ... actually many times it just isn't so! 
[* details omitted *]

>    To believe or make oneself believe that he/she is doing the
>same way the colleagues do.  It is important in believing, not
>being.

Yes, exactly. So that is why so many Japanese speak as they do.  The
confusion comes when non-Japanese enter the scene and *look* at
what's happening and don't just accept what is *said* to be happening. 
The belief that you're doing the same thing doesn't carry very far
beyond the people who pretend "the Emperor has clothes" (refering to
the fairy tale). 

[* more details omitted *]

>    Is it like this;
>    Assume someone was asked by you and said `This is the way
>we Japanese do'.  You show counter-examples to him.  `Oh, I didn't
>knew that, but at least in Tokushima prefecture this is true' 
>But you happened to know a friend from Tokushima city whose habit
>is not as the way he does.  `I came from the west part of the pre-
>fecture and you have to know Tokushima city is the exceptional place
>than the other, really a big city'.  
>    Yes, as you know, he may withdraw his front line to his county,
>his town, his neighbors or even to his family.  Still he will be OK 
>enough to believe that he is a typical Japanese.

Yes, it goes on and on. The point is that these kind of people are
*defending* something that has already become stuck in their minds.
They aren't actually sharing information with the idea of learning
anything or coming to some consensus or agreement.
    
>    (I referred Tokushima simply because I have a friend who is likely
>to think in a way the hero of this story thinks.  Of course I like
>him and I have no intensions to Tokushima.  Any prefecture will do
>where people has been in a good old temper :-)

IMHO, a lot of the arguments against fj.something.or.other are like
this :-)

I have found one fairly reliable way to separate those who are
actually trying to communicate from those who are just defending
some pre-conceived position: ask questions. 

It may sound too simple, but I've found that people who are
communication have something they can talk about underneath their
conclusions. While those who are only defending don't. Thus by
asking questions until you get down to something concrete works a
lot better than trying to give counter-examples. Once the full
meaning, in concrete terms, has been reached, it's fairly easy to
understand why somebody feels the way they do and one or the other
or both people in the dialog can update their position! 

On the other hand, if they can't answer the questions, there isn't
any sense in trying to have a dialog...

Dave

--
Dave McLane                                       davidg@aegis.or.jp
You're free to copy/quote/translate this as long as credit is given. 
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087