From: sims@possum.den.mmc.com (John Sims)
Subject: Re: Passing out Condoms (Was Re: Better Off Than Four Years Ago NOT)
Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics, Denver
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:14:28 GMT

nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:

>In article <1992Aug26.045511.19175@athena.mit.edu> jfed@athena.mit.edu (Jude G Federspiel) writes:
>>
>>In article <BtJL2I.K4z@apollo.hp.com>, nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:
>>|> In article <1992Aug25.131123.24352@crd.ge.com> doel@crd.ge.com writes:
>>|> >  We should encourage the kids to refrain from the dangerous behavior.
>>|> 
>>|>   Again, ---> HOW? <---.   And I mean "how" that actually works 
>>|>   most of the time.   Condoms have a certain failure rate but they
>>|>   work most of the time.   Everything I've read, heard, or witnessed
>>|>   with my own eyes suggests that even the best parental guidance has
>>|>   a higher failure rate than condoms.  
>>|> 
>>
>>I'll tell you.  It's so simple it's almost funny.  You start when the child is
>>very young.  You teach the child sex before marraige is wrong, dangerous, and
>>can have catastrophic consequences.  You show them (eventually we'll get a 
>>generation that can do this) by example that a loving married couple has just
>>as much sexual fun as an unmarried pair.  You teach them that although sexual
>>urges can be pretty strong during teens and pre-marital years, it's just
>>another thing you have to wait out.  Too few Americans have the discipline to
>>do this.  Kids just have to be taught it's not wrong to take a stand, to differ
>>from the crowd.  (a lot of teen sex is the result of peer pressure to be
>>sexually active).  Voila!

> ( I had to take a driver's test before gaining the right to drive.  We
>   ought to require a reading test before granting the right to post )

> *As I said*   **-->NOBODY<--*  is denying that the above would be 
> preferable to getting the schools in the act.   But:  IT JUST AIN'T
> HAPPENING!   And nobody has a clue how to make it happen.

> Now maybe Federspiel thinks that every kid in America is Theodore
> Cleaver and lives at 123 Maple Street, Happyville USA with two loving
> parents who have time to give him the guidance and attention he needs
> and the only mischief he ever gets into is of the "cute" variety, et
> cetera.

> In the real world 60% of all black babies are born into single 
> parent families; 25% of *all* US babies are so born, a huge percentage
> of families have both parents working full-time and they barely have
> time to feed and clothe their kids; another huge percentage of kids
> grow up in families beset by divorce, alcoholism, drug abuse, and
> other problems.    And on top of that the mass media bombard kids 
> every day with messages promoting sex.   
Jeepers, Peter.  Its a good thing you aren't the VP.  You'd be mocked,
ridiculed, jeered, laughed at, and in general dismissed as an idiot for
saying such an unjustified and inflammatory remark as that last one.  If
you don't believe me, just read a few posts in alt.fan.dan-quayle.  Your
points are well taken, but the fact remains that condoms are no
substitute for parental guidance.  Throwing condoms at kids is like
throwing money at them.  It does absolutely _nothing_ to encourage
desirable behavior.  And the fact that schools are handing them out only
contributes to the undermining of what little parental authority
remains.  My point is that parents have no right to abdicate their
responsibilities to their children.  I forget who said "We are always
one generation away from the jungle" was right.  Parents who neglect
their responsibilities to their kids are harming themselves, their kids,
and their society.  Condoms just ain't a substitute.

> So when Felderspiel says, "you teach them" or "you show them",
> above, to WHOM does "you" refer?   The parents?  See the above 
> paragraph.   
Yep, the parents.  Its still their responsibility to raise their kids,
not to let the schools do it for them.

> Federspiel may live in Toon Town, or in Never-Never land where
> the scariest threat is an alligator with a clock in his stomach
> and children never grow up, but in America kids grow up entirely
> too soon.   Kids in Never Never land are happy without parents
> but real children need parenting and they're not getting it!  
> The schools are a poor excuse for a father and a mother but in
> the absence of the real thing what does Federspiel suggest?  
You've hit the nail on the head.  There isn't a good substitute.  But
its very unpopular to advocate "traditional family values", isn't it?
Maybe what we need to be doing as a society is rebuilding the
institutions which encourage families rather than tearing them apart.

John

-- 
John Sims    sims@pogo.den.mmc.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush