From: holmes@opal.idbsu.edu (Randall Holmes)
Subject: Re: sexism
Organization: Boise State University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 19:15:39 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.164250.12854@tc.cornell.edu> bai@msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu (Dov Bai-MSI Visitor) writes:
>In article <3833@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> silverm@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Jeff Silverman) writes:
>>bai@msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu (Dov Bai-MSI Visitor) writes:
>>
>>>In article <CFMRBYYR@cc.swarthmore.edu> mwertz1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Melanie Wertz) writes:
>>>>
>>>>I was born Jewish and I had an Orthodox Jewish education.  I have abandoned
>>>>Judaism because I came to recognize that it is sexist to the core.  The
>>>>Tanach is a patriarchal body of literature which completely invalidates the
>>>>history, experience, and contribution of women.  Jewish law, at least
>>>>Orthodox Jewish law, is degrading to women.  Is there anyone out there who
>>>>feels the same way?
>>
>>>Let me try to understand: If you believed that the Bible
>>>is the word of God, how could God's words be degrading in any way ? I
>>>understand that you have felt a contradiction  between modern Western
>>>value system and the Bible, but if the Bible is the word of God why did 
>>>you choose the Western values over the Bible's ?
>>
>>>>
>>>>Melanie 
>>>>
>>
>>>Dov
>>
>>Let me try to understand.  Here is a woman, obviously well educated and
>>intelligent, and she has developed some negative feelings about a value system
>>which she has grown up.  Now, you come along and try to argue with her
>>rationally.  I understand why you would do that, because that's the way you
>>and I have been trained and inculturated (inculturated is a fancy word for
>>absorbing what your culture tells you).  Well, you aren't going to address
>>her feelings if you deny them or try to deal with them logically!

It isn't clear to me that Melanie is merely "expressing her feelings".
It seems to me that her argument can be expressed (at least
approximately) via syllogisms:

	Sexism is bad.
	The Torah is sexist.
        therefore, the Torah is bad.

	All works of God (if IT exists) are good.
		(pronoun altered in deference to Melanie)
	The Torah is bad (taken from conclusion of above syllogism).
	therefore, the Torah cannot be the work of God.

	Some of this reconstruction is conjectural, of course.  Now it
is clear from the premiss "Sexism is bad" that she takes as primary
certain modern Western values.  If the premiss "The Torah is sexist"
is correct, then, at least in my conjectural reconstruction of her
argument, she has no choice but to reject the Divine origin of the
Torah.  Clearly she does NOT accept as a primary premiss that the
Torah is the word of God, or this argument would have ended up
as a _reductio ad absurdum_ of one or another of the premisses of the
argument outlined above.  I would ask the first respondent why he
thought that it was at all likely that Melanie would accept as a
primary premiss that the Torah is the word of God.  I would ask the
second respondent where Melanie's _feelings_ necessarily enter into
the matter. 


>
>Please elaborate on your statements. I assmued that an intelligent woman
>could benefit from  rational thinking to sort out difficulties in her 
>belief-system, even if her feelings indicate otherwise. Under what 
>conditions do you suggest that an intelligent person should abandon 
>rational thinking ? What would that person rely on in such cases ? 
>
>
>Dov
>

To this I shall merely say, Amen!



-- 
The opinions expressed		|     --Sincerely,
above are not the "official"	|     M. Randall Holmes
opinions of any person		|     Math. Dept., Boise State Univ.
or institution.			|     holmes@opal.idbsu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish