HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tvp@gibdo.engr.washington.edu ()
Subject: Re: What about China done to Korea?
Organization: clearer than blir
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 10:48:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.040016.27706@CS.ORST.EDU> lamb@jasper.CS.ORST.EDU (Ben Lam) writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.013838.14861@gibdo.engr.washington.edu> tvp@gibdo.engr.washington.edu writes:
>>
>>I hope this means you'll shut up after the last Japanese of the WWII
>>era are dead. But no, somehow I expect you'll find some slippery
>>reason for continuing to demand an apology while ignoring your own
>>country's evils. I demand all Chinese apologize to the Koreans
>>immediately.
>
>May be you can tell me what slippery reasons could I use?

Well, you didn't apologize so I guess you just skipped right
over giving a reason why you won't.

>Hmm ... according to your logic, may be US should apologize to China
>                     ^^^^^^^^^^
>because US invaded China with seven other Western nations during the
>Ching dynasty.  I demand all Americans apologize to the Chinese immediately.
>
>--Ben Lam

It wasn't my logic. It was the logic of many Chinese on this network.
I applied it in such a way that even you thought it was ridiculous.
But you only saw it as ridiculous when it was someone demanding an
apology from *you*. The double standard strikes again.

Let me interject something. *Demanding* an apology is strange to me.
Apologies are something the offending party either offers up of their
own free will or they don't. Japan hasn't. Okay. They're idiots ( the
Japanese Gov't, not the people) for not apologizing, but couldn't you
use your time better than this apology thing?

You won't get what you're demanding.  Wouldn't it be better to set up
a museum in Nanking (like Japan has done for the A-bomb in Hiroshima)
and make it a monument to those that were murdered so no one will ever
forget?  Wouldn't it be better to spread the word on what happened and
stop even using the word apology?

If you were really organized and knew what you were doing you could
make sure that every man woman and child in Japan knew *exactly* what
happened regardless of what their textbooks said. And for all this you
could avoid wasting time on the one thing history proves doesn't work:
trying to force a sovereign state to do something they don't want to.

-- Tad Perry   Internet:    tvp@gibdo.engr.washington.edu
               CompuServe:  70402,3020
               NIFTY-Serve: GBG01266
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: ken@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Ken Primer)
Subject: Godzilla vs Charles Barkely
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:31:09 GMT
Keywords: a tv commercial

    Well folks, there is going to be a series of commercials (in the US) featuring Godzilla vs Charles Barkley. Any bets on who will win? :-)

-- 
  HAVE A NICE DAY!                        ken@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu
(or die trying)--------AAAAAAARG! the paranoids are after me!

                                                               <fnord>
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Tricks of the trade (was An open letter to the Emperor)
Date: 17 Aug 92 02:05:28 GMT
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

borders@ms.uky.edu (Johnny Borders) writes:

>ylu@bach.helios.nd.edu () writes:

>>In article <1992Aug16.081012.26814@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> shao@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (SHAO CHUNG-SHANG) writes:

>>If a large number of japs think in this way it is dangerous! For our chinese,
>>the question of how the japs was "tricked" to the war is another subject.
>>We can not mix these issues. The fact is millions of chinese civilian people
>>were killed, Buried in LIVE and killed in LIVE for medical testing by JAPs
>>on chinese land. Who can say this is not japs responsibility! no matter what
>>is the reason for their invading! 
>> 
>>One the other hand some netters have pointed out how the japs was "tricked"
>>to invade china, I do'nt want to use more valuable CPU time here.

>   Well, sir, let me say one thing: The usage of the term 'jap' or 'japs' is
>slanderous in any context. It would have been just as easy for you to type out
>'japanese' like you did 'chinese.' I don't mean to fuss, but one has to be
>careful so as not to offend anyone. If I went around saying (or typing :)
>'japs' and 'chinks' (or the infamous all-inclusive all-American term
>"little slant-eyed bastards") I would eventually offend SOMEBODY. Just a
>point I thought needed to be made..

How can one go about living without offending somebody? I know it's
not in style but how about a little STT (Skin-Thickening Therapy)
for the OES (Over-Emotionally Sensitive)? 

Let's see, as already mentioned there are 'japs' and 'chinks'. How
about the Chinese term for whites, 'gweilo' (sp?) or whatever it is.
Or how about 'ki-chi-ku' (devil), the term used by the goverment to
refer to Americans. There's also something which translates as
'hairy barbarian' but I forget what it is in Japanese. 

How about setting them to music (your choice of tune):

  Rose are red, 
  Violets are blue,
  Kichiku, I see you!

  You'd better not slap,
  A slant-eyed Jap,
  As he might be Chiyonofuji.
  Doesn't rhyme, 
  But for a dime
  I can tell you who's he.

  Can a Chink drink beer?
  Not if a qweilo is near.
  
  Can Chinks see the chinks in their logic?
  And can Japs see the traps in theirs?
  Or can Kichikus see the flues in their flaws?
  Only guffaw's can handle the flaws,
  And Brown baby bears deal with theirs,
  But the best hypnogogic can't deal with such logic,
  So let us all go out for a beer.
  
Sorry the last one didn't work out so well, but still, going out for
a beer is better than (Yet Another Flame War) isn't it :)

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: smittie@beach.csulb.edu (Smittie)
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
	<SMITTIE.92Aug20222341@beach.csulb.edu>
	<1992Aug21.070029.26500@leland.Stanford.EDU>
	<1992Aug21.195241.14053@udel.edu>
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:28:15 GMT

>>>Denunciation is in no way synonymous with hate.
>>
>>I see.  A call for an apology is synonymous with hate.  I would like to buy
>>a thesaurus from you.
 
>Bingo!

Using terms like JAP are strong indications of racism. Just as if I were to
refer to you as 'chink' or 'gook' or 'slophead'. There have been numerous signs
of racism among your numbers.

smittie
-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
GEnie, MCI, AOL:Smittie | If all of us were as smart as we think we are the
smittie@beach.csulb.edu |  current world problems would be yesterday's news.
________________________|___________________________________________________
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:54:25 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.japan
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

gang@ms.uky.edu (Gang Li) writes:

>I heard that there is a "International Peace Museum" newly opened in Japan
>(Kyoto?) have you been there? We all know that a lot of Japanese hate that
>War, and they love peace.

To give you another possibility, a lot of people I've talked with
say that the intense desire for peace is because life was very
terrible in Japan during the war. They are afraid that if the
Japanese military were once again to gain political power their life
would be terrible once again. In other words, it's an intra-national
conflict the are worried about. 

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
From: henryc@panix.com (Henry Chan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Godzilla vs Charles Barkely
Date: 15 Aug 92 21:55:07 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <1992Aug15.165728.862@u.washington.edu> yoichi@milton.u.washington.edu (Yoichi Ii) writes:
>ken@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Ken Primer) writes:
>In previous posts there was a question regarding Godzilla's gender.
>But what about its nationality?  Is it Japanese?  Having seen him/her
>go around stomping on Tokyo, I'm not sure Godzilla is a Nihon-lizard.
>In fact, wasn't he/she from the South Pacific (consequence of H-bomb 
>test or something)?

Godzilla a gaijin?  Maybe he/she/it was the first gaijin tarento to break the
social barrier to allow others to follow.  Godzilla being a gaijin makes more
sense.  All those movies where Godzilla temporarily left Japan coincided with
the expiration of his visa.
-- 
My friends, we can and we will, never, never, surrender to what is right.
--Dan Qualye speaking to Pat Robertson's Christian Coalition.
From: kim@magneto.physics.auburn.edu (Han-jung Kim)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: What do most of Japanese think of Korean (Re: An open letter..)
Date: 22 Aug 92 16:17:06 GMT
Reply-To: kim@magneto.physics.auburn.edu (Han-jung Kim)
Organization: Auburn University, Auburn, AL
Message-I.D.: <1992Aug22.155241.13261@u.washington.edu>Lines: 34

>>[* preceding stuff omitted *]
>The prejudices go back further, probably back to the Hideyoshi invasion.
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thank you for your post and sharing your opinion, sir.

The underlined sentence above does not make me understood because of the poor
ackowledge of mine.
I have only one-dimensional and very plain understanding about that 
invasion, such as JUST INVASION AS THE HISORY OF ANY COUNTRY HAS EXPERIENCED.

I fail to connect the invasion to the root of prejudice which today's
some or 50% of Japanese have in mind.

Would you explaine this sentence more in detail.

What I can imagine about this invasion at most is
that probably Japan might has begun to think that they were superior to korean
from that era.  Is this what you mean, Sir? If so, I feel some difficulty
to consider this sort of reason as the root of prejudice.
 Or you have more reasons to support that sentence. I am eager to learn 
the truth or any possible answers of the topics I have born in my mind since
I begun to recognize those problems.( about from 1982).

I am learning and learning now and feel that I am not the man who was before
I did not read those posts as long as the topic is related to the Imperial
 Japanese Army and today's Japanese. Great improvement!
Specially the Japanese netter helped me to understand them so much.
Thank you for all of you again.
Waiting for another opinons.
.
>
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: What do most of Japanese think of Korean (Re: An open letter..)
Date: 23 Aug 92 11:57:20 GMT
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

ntetsuya@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Nishimura) writes:

>	Anyway, "Chosenjin" in Japanese has NO secondary meaning unless a 
>	person wants to use with humiliation and insulting tone of voice.

IMHO, the same goes for 'gaijin'. While the word may have no
secondary meaning in the dictionary, a person can use it with a
humilating or insulting tone of voice or gesture. 

Thus, depending upon the particular face-to-face experiences you
have had with somebody referring to you with one of these words,
this meaning is often taken when you hear or see the word again.

So if even if you personally chose to use these words with the most
innocent of intentions, don't be suprised if the other person takes
offense, as they may think you are using them in the same way that
somebody else did when they insulted them! 

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
From: u8902989@cs.uow.edu.au (Chung Ming Liu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: JAF-CON '92 ?
Date: 18 Aug 92 07:59:04 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Wollongong University, Australia

Did anyone in Tokyo attended the JApanese Fantastic Convention 92 ?
I read it Bandai's MJ issue 157, that they would be showing the latest 
episode of Gundam 0083 and Macross II (OVA). What episode are they ?
Also did B-Clud release a G-kit ot model kit of AMX-04 GERBERA-TETRA,
if they did can anyone tell me how much it cost ?

Please forward more info on JAF-CON 92 to
Thanks !

Email 
u8902989@cs.uow.edu.au
Chung Ming (Samuel) Liu
University of Wollongong, Australia.
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Date: 16 Aug 92 17:27:23 GMT
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

shao@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (SHAO CHUNG-SHANG) writes:

>In article <2351@aegis.or.jp> davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:

[* my entire post was quoted so I removed the whole thing *]

>well, pearl harbor may be the case as you said.  how about the war in
>china?  how about the war in south asia? such as singaport, tailand...
>did you hear any kind of excuses from japanese?  at lease i don't think
>that chinese people wanted the war and the economic condition could
>support a war at that time.  especially, all the battles were happened
>on the land of china, not on the land of japan.

Please go back and read what I said again (no, I'm not going to
quote it again :). I'm saying that for the people I spoke with, all
of the actions Japan took in WWII were either justified, in response
to something, etc., etc., etc. They *believe* this to be so, they
also *believe* there is no need for any more of an apology than has
already been given. However, since saying this in so many words
would obviously cause a great stir, they politely remain silent. 

Perhaps the particular people I spoke with are typical, perhaps not,
but if you look at the vague statments that are given out by the
emperor, prime ministers, etc. they seem to follow suit. 

In short, why don't we just accept at the beginning that everybody
does what they think is justified, called for, etc., etc. and try
to find out why they believe so? 

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
From: smittie@beach.csulb.edu (Smittie)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: New Year's Eve in Japan
Date: 18 Aug 92 23:18:01 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.japan
Organization: Cal State Long Beach

My wife is from Kyoto and thus her family lives there. I've spent two or three
"Shogatsu" in Kyoto and it is easily my favorite place to be on New Year's Eve.
There is a very large and famous Temple with a shrine right next to it down
near Gion. This is a great place to go. I am a big people watcher and that is a
lot of the joy in it for me. I usually spend most of the night wandering from
once temple or shrine to another. It really is great fun.

I will be returning to Japan after a four year stay in the States. I am very
much looking forward to this coming New Year's in Kyoto.

smittie
-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
GEnie, MCI, AOL:Smittie | If all of us were as smart as we think we are the
smittie@beach.csulb.edu |  current world problems would be yesterday's news.
________________________|___________________________________________________
From: yunson@lpf.umd.edu (Yunson Du)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Date: 20 Aug 92 03:50:42 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

>In-Reply-To: yunson@lpf.umd.edu's message of 20 Aug 92 01:21:50 GMT

>>Donot be surprised if someday China attacks Japan. It is Japan who invites
>>that invasion!

>THIS is how the perpetration of hatred will cause China to become the problem.
>It is a logical fallacy to say that two wrongs make a right. This is exactly
>what I've have been talking about.

>smittie

>-- 
>___________________________________________________________________________
>GEnie, MCI, AOL:Smittie | If all of us were as smart as we think we are the
>smittie@beach.csulb.edu |  current world problems would be yesterday's news.
>________________________|___________________________________________________

Hey, people are so easy to declare they are amart. Read my lips:
I was applying Dave's logics and reached that point (according to
Dave, the stronger should not feel guilty to attack the weak, 
hence if China is someday stronger, then it is alright to attack
Japan; it won't suprise him).

Yunson Du
University of Maryland
College Park



Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
From: zzuo@iastate.edu (Zhiqi Zuo)
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 01:29:39 GMT

In article <SMITTIE.92Aug20162051@beach.csulb.edu> smittie@beach.csulb.edu (Smittie) writes:
>>You can't expect all the chinese and koreans to be holy in the first place.
>>They won't embrace the Japanese government with love, when the latter is still
>>trying to cover the crime of the war. The potential jingoism will still last,
>>if the government sets an environment for it. If I can find your critistic
>>statements about the government, I may think we find a good judge. It is true
>>that this world should be full of understandings and love. It is true that
>>hatred is not good for this aim. But this great aim needs all parts to
>>fullfill.
>
>This is getting really ridiculous. I NEVER said anyone should embrace anyone
>with anything. That can exist the absense of hatred and at the same time the

Nobody said you had said. "You" can have two meanings here, don't be too 
close-minded.

>absence of love. But here again, I guess that your approach might really stir
>up some emotion in people and then they might forget to carefully consider what
>you say. A rather popular and effective style of propoganda.

What makes the things ridiculous is that you can always find something wrong in
an otherwise nice paragraph. This has happened to you, in the way you cut the
other people's posters and commented them. Everything the other people said became 
meaningless in your eyes.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: d-itasak@nmit.mt.nec.co.jp (Daisaku Itasaka)
Subject: Re: lotteries
Organization: NEC Microcomputer Technology Ltd., Tokyo, Japan
Distribution: world 
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 00:20:50 GMT

In article <Bt8EtM.5p4@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
	jly33321@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (John L.Yoon ) writes:

>while watching the news this morning, there was a story about the
>start of a new lottery in Japan.  Included in the story were pictures
>of amazingly long line of people waiting to purchase tickets, people
>buying 500 tickets at a time, even the reporter buying a few tickets...
>
>how much do these tickets cost anyway?

				   (first prize)
100yen for usual ones,		#   1,000,000yen?
300yen for big ones,		# 100,000,000yen?
200yen sometimes.		#  20,000,000yen?
(125yen = US$1)

-- 
A wrong guy in a wrong place at wrong time...
						 Daisaku Itasaka
				      d-itasak@nmit.mt.nec.co.jp
				NEC Microcomputer Technology Ltd.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
From: wohfuchi@splash.Princeton.EDU (Wataru Ohfuchi)
Subject: Re: What do most of Japanese think of Korean (Re: An open letter..)
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 05:27:57 GMT

In article <1992Aug22.092013.9018@u.washington.edu> yeonwook@hardy.u.washington.edu (Mark Choi) writes:

[stuff deleted]

>Yes, I agree in part. But many Koreans either emigrated or were forced to
>Japan. I can think of some historical cases:
>
>1. Yayoi people
>3. Silla and Tang Dynasty artisans, monks, etc.
>2. Paekche refugees after Paekche was destroyed by Silla Kingdom
>3. Maybe some Koryo dynasty people fleeing from Mongol
>4. Hideyoshi invasion and kidnappings.

  Is there any estimation how many Koreans came to Japan? It is very
interesting to see how many Japanese originated from the Korean
peninsula. Where the hell did the rest come from, by the way?
(I heard there was much debate on this in Japan but I didn't pay
attention to it.)
  I myself am sometimes mistaken as a Korean...well, at least at Chinese
restaurants. 8^) I think I have a kind of look of a Pacific islander,
though.

[stuff deleted]

>-- 
>    .  .      +---------------------------------+
>  --|--|      | Mark Yeon Wook Choi             |
>   /.\ |      | yeonwook@hardy.u.washington.edu |
>  --|--|      +---------------------------------+  

...Wataru
-- 
  ...Wataru Ohfuchi
     Program in Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences, Princeton University
     w1o@gfdl.gov _or_ wohfuchi@splash.princeton.edu
From: masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Mimana Theory Revisted (due to the Nara tombs being excavated)
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:56:36 GMT
Organization: Frederick Cancer Research and Development Center

In article <92223.163313ECOKXP@BYUVM.BITNET> ECOKXP@BYUVM.BITNET writes:

>I can't help but wonder if the current generation of Japanese feels also
>that the US owes them nothing for Hiroshima & Nagasaki.  Does the current
>generation also feel that it was an unfortunate incident, but really not
>the fault of today's US citizens?

   I personally have never thought that I deserve the US's apology for
A-bombing. There are many Japanese (and probably Americans) who criticize that
the A-bombings were not the best strategy that the US could take, but they 
seem to analyze the fact more or less objectively. Sometimes, A-bomb-survivors
show up on TV or write a story to tell their A-bomb experience. Even those
people seem to try to interpret what they went through as objectively as
possible. As far as I know, there has been no significant movement or campaign 
to aim at the apology from the US although there is a common and strong 
distaste against nuclear weapons in general and the present policies of some 
countries regarding nuclear weapons. 

>What about the internment of Japanese Americans by the US gov't during
>WWII?  By the same logic since most US citizens had nothing to do with
>their imprisonment, surely it isn't fair to tax them today for reparation
>payments!  Would today's Japanese feel it's OK for the US gov't to simply
>ignore that issue?  To say that to apology or reparation is needed because
>it happened so long ago and today's americans aren't the guilty party?

   I don't think that the Japanese government or Japanese citizens are
eligible to make any protest or request for reparation. That was
essentially a domestic problem of the US. The US government should decide
and decided what to do depending on what the US citizens would feel.
   It's my impression that internment of Japanese-Americans during WWII is not
such a well-known fact among Japanese as Americans would expect. I don't 
think I learned anything about that at school.

>By the way does anyone know if the US has every offically apologized for
>the A-bombs?  Did the Japanese gov't ever offically apologize for Pearl
>Harbor?

   Not that I know of. However, that fact that the US won the war and 
that the Japanese war criminals were executed or punished might have 
officially cancelled the necessity of apology.

>If the citizens of a country don't agree it will a government's
>apology have any real meaning?

   Probably, it depends on how the one who is apologized would feel.

Michiaki Masuda
From: blamb@rodan.hri.com (Bill Lambert)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Irresponsibility (Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japan)
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:29:42 GMT
Reply-To: blamb@rodan.hri.com (Bill Lambert)
Distribution: soc
Organization: Horizon Research

In article <SMITTIE.92Aug18104126@beach.csulb.edu>,
smittie@beach.csulb.edu (Smittie) writes:
=> I for one am very ready to move what has so far been an
=> overly emotional and largely irrational discussion in the
=> direction of discussing discernible facts and the ramification
=> of those facts.

=> What do the other netters out there think??

I think you're well-intentioned, but dreaming in color.

- Bill