HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sgs@ucs.usl.edu (Sudhindranath SG)
Subject: Re: language again
Keywords: uu, uu, uu
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern La., Lafayette
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 13:59:44 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.171818.28824@zip.eecs.umich.edu> ravi@panini.eecs.umich.edu (C. V. Ravishankar) writes:
...
>
>The responsibility for the demise of Sanskrit lies with those who took
>his codification of a snapshot of Sanskrit *at his time*, and turned
>it into the definition of what Sanskrit ought to be.  Any changes to
						       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>the language would automatically consitute "wrong" Sanskrit, fit only
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>to be frowned upon.  The language wasn't allowed flexibility to evolve.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>

I think something similar is happening in the realm of Carnatic
classical music too. When Dr. Balamurali Krishna came up with a
new "raga", many people (including an eminent musicologist 
I know of) reacted "How dare he do it ? How can he think he
is equal to the great musicians/musicologists of the past ?" and 
so on.  As far as I know, nobody criticised the "raga" on the basis
of its merits/demerits.

>In contrast, the Kannada of Pampa and Ranna is vastly different from
>that of today, and their Kannada was probably vastly different from that
>of some centuries earlier.  That's why we still speak "Kannada", though
>Pampa and Ranna might barely recognize it as their language.
>
>Linguistic purity, like racial purity, is a myth.  Languages survive
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>because they change.  Lack of change is a sure sign of morbidity.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>

I agree. There is nothing _sacred_ about the "state-of-the-art" at any
point of time, whether in science or in art. The same should be true  
in the case of languages too.

>-- C. V. Ravishankar

Regards,

-- Sudhi.

-- 
*********************************************************************
Sira Gopinath Sudhindranath. 
email : sudhi@usl.edu, sgs@ucs.usl.edu
*********************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.culture.karnataka
From: vcs@elvis.viewlogic.com (VCS account - Shankar Shenoi)
Subject: Looking for: Govind Pai
Originator: vcs@power
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc., Marlboro, MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:06:04 GMT

Hello there.

I want to get in touch with Govind Pai of Wipro, Bangalore.  He came to
the US recently.  If you have any info please let me know.

Thanks,
Shankar. - "vcs@elvis.viewlogic.com"

Newsgroups: alt.culture.karnataka
From: rao@shaggyman.cis.ohio-state.edu (roshan m rao)
Subject: Info
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 15:47:33 GMT

Hi, 
   Could anyone tell me the email address of the CS dept at the University
of Central Florida, Orlando, for app. forms ?
Thanks,
Roshan Rao
From: sgs@ucs.usl.edu (Sudhindranath SG)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.karnataka
Subject: Re: language again
Keywords: uu, uu, uu
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:29:37 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern La., Lafayette

In article <1992Oct6.225829.15800@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> raja@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Malur Ra Rajashekhar) writes:
...
>
>Talking about 'prakrit' , it is often quoted that 
>"prakrutihi samskritam; tatra bhavam, tata aagatam vaa prakritam "
>
>Prakrit is sanskrit spoken in a crude form by people / sanskrit is a
>cultured, disciplined prakrit.
>

I remember someone analysing the origins of Prakritam and Samskritam 
along these lines :

Prakritam was the language that existed before Samskritam ----
("Prathama Kritham" i.e. the language that was created first).
People found it very difficult to learn/speak Prakritam. So 
an alternative was created which was claimed to be easy to learn/speak,
and yet as elegant as Prakritam. This language was called
Samskritam ("Sama Kritham" i.e. the language that is created
equal [to Prakritam] ).
>
...
>
>Malur R Rajashekhar

Regards,

--Sudhi.

-- 
*********************************************************************
Sira Gopinath Sudhindranath. 
email : sudhi@usl.edu, sgs@ucs.usl.edu
*********************************************************************
From: gna@vardhan.uucp (G N Ananda Vardhana)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.karnataka
Subject: No News is Bad news
Date: 14 Oct 92 19:51:52 GMT
Reply-To: gna@vardhan.uucp (G N Ananda Vardhana)
Organization: Adams Software, Lake Oswego OR  USA

Kannada Bandugalige Vandanegalu

	Ee pathravannu yaradaru oodiyare amba samshya baruthide anage. Ee 
	pathra vyvahara suruaada hostharalli swalpa birusagi vyavahara
	saagithu. Nanthara khinisutha hoogide. Idu kannadigara durdeshye?
	athava kannadigarella thamma thamma karyadalli nirataragi es 
	karyabahira kelasavannu madalu hinjariyuthidareye?

	Nannu sadaranavagi oota madutha ee kelsavannu maduthene. Hage kelsa
	thappisida apavada nanna mele baruvudilla.

	Aanadaru kadu harate hodedu ee pathra vyvahara anathadalli leena 
	vagadanthe nodikolluvudu namma karthvya.

	Nanu Mysoreinalli, JCE yalli 1980ralli nanna tanthrika padaviyannu
	padede. Yaradaru nanna parichitaru ee vishwadalli eddare ootharisi.

	Rashtra Kavi Kuvempu Madikeriya Raja Seatn gudde mele ninthu 
	"Kannadigare banni ee nadannu katti, ondagi .."andu anatha vishwadedege
	muka kottu ookara madia hage nanage anisuthide.

	Oota ayithu anjalu kyiyalli motidare ee computer mylige aadithu.
	Aadarinda innu nnna harate nillisi nale madyana othara nirikshisuthne.


	aananda vardhana
From: vishwa@beach.csulb.edu (Viswanath Nanjundiah)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.karnataka
Subject: Some kannada film songs and their ragas
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:52:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Cal State Long Beach

I hope it is OK to post this question in this news-group instead of 
rec.indian.classical.music. 
Can someone tell me the Raaga of the song (that was listed sometime ago
here) 'Baare baare' of Naagara Haavu .
Thank you 
vishwa
From: Sandesh.Devegowda@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Sandesh Devegowda)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.karnataka
Subject: Looking for
Keywords: Bradley Univ, Bhaskar
Date: 15 Oct 92 05:00:07 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

Am looking to contact Bhaskar from MCE Hassan currently supposed to be
in Bradley Univ. somewhere in the Midwest (EE Master's maybe)
Call me (203) 427-6875 or email sandesh@eng2.uconn.edu
Anybody else from MCE too, whatever batch (except any enemies with
violent attitudes!!) just beep in and say Hello. Can yak 'bout Haasana!!
Sandesh Devegowda



--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,sci.econ,soc.culture.usa,alt.activism
From: ae547@yfn.ysu.edu (Ronda Hauben)
Subject: Re: Vote for 3rd party/no-party candidates!!!
Reply-To: ae547@yfn.ysu.edu (Ronda Hauben)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 04:13:35 GMT




oops the date on the Holden versus Hardy was a typo -
the actual date is 1898

I think the cite is Holden v. Hardy 169 U.S. 366

             Ronda
-- 
Ronda Hauben                    email address:ae547@yfn.ysu.edu
Amateur Computerist Newsletter              or
P.O. Box 4344                   rhauben@heartland.bradley.edu
Dearborn, MI 48126
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,alt.activism,sci.econ,talk.politics.theory
From: waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker)
Subject: Re: Vote for 3rd party/no-party candidates!!!
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 13:37:00 GMT

mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:

> >What is economics? Let me make an effort toward a definition,
> >that it is the theory for a plan or policy guiding the production
> >and reproduction of the goods and necessities of life.
> 
> Rather than 'making this effort', have you considered studying the
> field at all?  Your definition is wrong, as any basic book on the
> subject would tell you.

This is a critical argument?  Because the textbooks say one thing
we discard all attempts to critically examine other possibilities?
How can you simply state that this definition of economics is
"wrong?"

Even Stockdale's debating style has more pizzaz. ;)

Todd
Xref: sparky alt.amateur-comp:87 sci.econ:8042 soc.culture.usa:7702 alt.activism:17325
From: stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu (Stephen Jascourt)
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,sci.econ,soc.culture.usa,alt.activism
Subject: Re: why won't companies . . .
Date: 10 Oct 92 00:44:16 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Meteorology and Space Science

In article <1992Oct9.233958.8835@news.ysu.edu> ae547@yfn.ysu.edu (Ronda Hauben) writes:
>In a previous article, mcgredo@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (Don McGregor) says:
>>In article <1992Oct9.134942.19343@news.ysu.edu> ae547@yfn.ysu.edu (Ronda Hauben) writes:
>>>The historical record indicates that a decrease in the number of hours 
>>>worked results in a proportional or more than proportional increase in
>>>productivity for several reasons.
>>>
>>If this were true, why wouldn't companies lower their hours without
>>the government requiring them to?  Why are they passing up a chance
>>to make money hand over fist compared to their competitors, who are
>>stupidly requiring their workers to put in a non-optimal number of
>>hours?
>
>During the hearings in Washington in response to the Black Bill to 
>lower the workweek to 30 hours - companies testified that they
>needed a law by Congress for them to be able to shorten hours
>of their workers. 
>
>They testified that on their own an individual company couldn't shorten
>hours because he was at the mercy of his recalcitrant competitors.
>The worst offender set the standard, not the best.
>
>If there were a law, however, the company who wanted higher standards
>to be more productive would have help policing his recalcitrant 
>competitors.
>
>There is a similar situation regarding health and safety legislation.
>  [ more good stuff deleted ]

This is very similar to the experience in trying to make restaurants 100%
non-smoking. Over 32 cities, including Sacramento, Palo Alto, Oakland, and
Aspen, have passed smokefree restaurant ordinance, and not one has lost
business, and in fact, several have had increases in restaurant business.
Yet in all cases, there was initially tremendous opposition by the
local restaurant associations and most of the restaurant owners, who were
afraid their business would go to neighboring cities without the 
ordinance. Some of the most ardent opponents of the ordinances have now
turned into some of its most ardent supporters, and one city in which the
restaurant association managed to get the ordinance overturned has had
a number of owners keep their restaurants 100% non-smoking because they
found it was good for business. The point is that many businesses are
afraid to make a radical experiment without their competition forced to
make the same experiment, even for situations when it has been demonstrated
to be good for business in other places (they can always come up with a
reason why it won't work for them...).

Stephen Jascourt   stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu
Xref: sparky alt.amateur-comp:123 alt.activism:17605 sci.econ:8159 talk.politics.theory:4552
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,alt.activism,sci.econ,talk.politics.theory
Subject: Re: Vote for 3rd party/no-party candidates!!!
Date: 16 Oct 92 22:45:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: mksol.1992Oct16.224543.2454
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <exukjb.336.719257129@exu.ericsson.se> exukjb@exu.ericsson.se (ken bell) writes:

>In article <1992Oct15.210550.3145@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>>From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
>>Subject: Re: Vote for 3rd party/no-party candidates!!!
>>Date: 15 Oct 92 21:05:50 GMT

>>In <1992Oct13.210318.9804@news.ysu.edu> ae547@yfn.ysu.edu (Ronda Hauben) writes:

>>>What is economics? Let me make an effort toward a definition,
>>>that it is the theory for a plan or policy guiding the production
>>>and reproduction of the goods and necessities of life.

>>Rather than 'making this effort', have you considered studying the
>>field at all?  Your definition is wrong, as any basic book on the
>>subject would tell you.

>I thought economics was like the other quasi [pseudo?] 'social' sciences,
>like sociology and political science? Purely descriptive of economic 
>arrangements, with a touch of value-judgement about the 'proper' economic
>arrangement thrown in. I don't know, maybe not. 

Not.

>OPINION ALERT..

>The real choice this election is between the central government economic 
>planners [who's only dispute is over the means for implementing big 
>government controls over business, and how to make their collectivist
>schemes more efficient--note: 'efficient bureaucracy' is a contradiction
>in terms] and the libertarians, who aren't asking the government approved 
>questions.

>libertarians.

Another group that needs to study some economics; at least if the ones
I've had conversations with are any indicator.

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
Xref: sparky alt.amateur-comp:115 comp.misc:4023
From: au329@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ronda Hauben)
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,comp.misc
Subject: Short Interesting Try-This Programs Wanted for Amateur Computerist
Date: 16 Oct 1992 00:43:51 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: au329@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ronda Hauben)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


WANTED

SHORT AND INTERESTING PROGRAMS TO BE PUBLISHED IN 
AMATEUR COMPUTERIST NEWSLETTER

Submit them online or via email.

Newsletter is published electronically, via the alt.amateur-comp
newsgroup, and in printed form.

                          for the Amateur Computerist,

                               the Editors


-- 
Ronda Hauben  Amateur Computerist Newsletter
P.O. Box 4344   other email addr:ae547@yfn.ysu.edu
Dearborn, MI 48126
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,alt.activism,sci.econ,talk.politics.theory
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,sci.econ,soc.culture.usa,alt.activism
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: why won't companies . . .
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:53:56 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Oct10.004416.16147@meteor.wisc.edu> stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu (Stephen Jascourt) writes:
>In article <1992Oct9.233958.8835@news.ysu.edu> ae547@yfn.ysu.edu (Ronda Hauben) writes:
>>In a previous article, mcgredo@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (Don McGregor) says:
>>>In article <1992Oct9.134942.19343@news.ysu.edu> ae547@yfn.ysu.edu (Ronda Hauben) writes:
>>>>The historical record indicates that a decrease in the number of hours 
>>>>worked results in a proportional or more than proportional increase in
>>>>productivity for several reasons.

>>>If this were true, why wouldn't companies lower their hours without
>>>the government requiring them to?  Why are they passing up a chance
>>>to make money hand over fist compared to their competitors, who are
>>>stupidly requiring their workers to put in a non-optimal number of
>>>hours?

>>During the hearings in Washington in response to the Black Bill to 
>>lower the workweek to 30 hours - companies testified that they
>>needed a law by Congress for them to be able to shorten hours
>>of their workers. 

>>They testified that on their own an individual company couldn't shorten
>>hours because he was at the mercy of his recalcitrant competitors.
>>The worst offender set the standard, not the best.

Ronda, use your head.  PLEASE!!!!

The claim is that lowering hours RAISES productivity.  If so (and I
find it hard to believe) then companies that lowered hours would gain
a competitive advantage.  The worst offenders wouldn't set the
standard.  They would go out of business.



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,sci.econ,soc.culture.usa,alt.activism
From: kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net (Michael P. Deignan)
Subject: Re: Vote for 3rd party/no-party candidates!!!
Organization: The Rhode Island Internet Systems Cooperative Network
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 04:19:39 GMT

ae547@yfn.ysu.edu (Ronda Hauben) writes:

>During the hearings in Washington in response to the Black Bill to 
>lower the workweek to 30 hours - companies testified that they
>needed a law by Congress for them to be able to shorten hours
>of their workers. 

This may be true to a limited extent. Some states legally define "full time"
and "part time" work, and have various sets of laws governing what a
company must comply with when their workers fall under one or the other
category.


>They testified that on their own an individual company couldn't shorten
>hours because he was at the mercy of his recalcitrant competitors.

Which is utter nonsense. Longer work weeks are not a necessary factor in
gaining a competitive advantage over one's rivals.


MD
-- 
--  Michael P. Deignan                      / Sex is hereditary. If your 
--  Domain: mpd@anomaly.sbs.com            /  parents never had it, chances 
--    UUCP: ...!uunet!rayssd!anomaly!mpd  /   are you won't either...
-- Telebit: +1 401 455 0347              /
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,alt.activism,sci.econ,talk.politics.theory
Subject: Re: Vote for 3rd party/no-party candidates!!!
Date: 16 Oct 92 22:48:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: mksol.1992Oct16.224810.2567
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <D1oqsB2w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker) writes:

>mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:

>> >What is economics? Let me make an effort toward a definition,
>> >that it is the theory for a plan or policy guiding the production
>> >and reproduction of the goods and necessities of life.
>> 
>> Rather than 'making this effort', have you considered studying the
>> field at all?  Your definition is wrong, as any basic book on the
>> subject would tell you.

>This is a critical argument?  Because the textbooks say one thing
>we discard all attempts to critically examine other possibilities?

If you call a dog's tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have?
Answer: Four -- calling it a leg doesn't make it one.

>How can you simply state that this definition of economics is
>"wrong?"

Because it is?

>Even Stockdale's debating style has more pizzaz. ;)

Then it's a good thing I'm not debating, isn't it?  Perhaps your
misconception is in reading my correction of a misstatement as
'debate' (or even debatable).

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp
From: 003316g@ace.acadiau.ca (STEPHEN EDWARD ELLIOTT GREGORY)
Subject: what's a FAQ
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 17:50:28 GMT

	Sorry if I step on anybody's toes but...

	I have just discouvered the wonderfull world of news groups and I 
was wondering if anyone would be kind enough as to give me a few general 
posting tips. Also would you please tell me what a FAQ is, other then a 
really big posting that takes forever to read and I'm not allowed to print.

Thank you in advance.

Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,sci.econ,soc.culture.usa,alt.activism
From: mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson)
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,sci.econ,soc.culture.usa,alt.activism
Subject: Re: why won't companies . . .
Date: 12 Oct 92 14:00:31 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: NCR Engineering and Manufacturing Atlanta -- Atlanta, GA

In <1992Oct10.004416.16147@meteor.wisc.edu> stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu (Stephen Jascourt) writes:

SJ:found it was good for business. The point is that many businesses are
SJ:afraid to make a radical experiment without their competition forced to
SJ:make the same experiment, even for situations when it has been demonstrated
SJ:to be good for business in other places (they can always come up with a
SJ:reason why it won't work for them...).

Except that in this case there is no need for an individual company to
undertake a "radical" experiment.  

Individual companies can cut back to 39 hours and after awhile if that 
doesn't kill them they can cut to 38 hours, and so on, until they find
the optimum number.
-- 
Mark
My opinions are mine, all mine.  Unless someone else claims them first.
Mark.Wilson@AtlantaGA.NCR.com

Xref: sparky alt.amateur-comp:96 alt.activism:17376
From: mcgredo@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (Don McGregor)
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,alt.activism
Subject: Re: Vote for 3rd party/no-party candidates!!!
Date: 11 Oct 92 19:26:22 GMT
Organization: Oregon State University, Computer Science Dept.

In article <1992Oct11.184729.5625@news.ysu.edu> ae547@yfn.ysu.edu (Ronda Hauben) writes:
>
>>>> {Decreasing work hours always increases productivity/efficiency}

I was refereing to the paid personal holidays inthe UAW contract, which were
numerous enough, when combined with standard vacations, to approach
a 4 day week.  

The auto industry responded logically by firing workers and increasing
automation.  It is highly doubtful that this increased their cost-
competitivness; they simply made the best of a bad situation.  Not that
I oppose the contract; the UAW and the car companies can negotiate 
anything they like, even if it does drive their industry into the
ground.

The comparision to worker saftey laws is a straw man at best; nobody
is going to die from working 40 hours instead of 35.  And at any rate,
employers can already require longer than 40 hour work weeks; they
just need to pay overtime to do it.  (Unless they're in agriculture
or another exempt industry, in which case you can work 70 hours a 
week for straight pay).  

Few employers require significant OT for long stretches of time.
If employees don't like working OT, they can jump to many of
the other companies that have shorter hours.  Employees are
cluefull enough to make the decision on how to allocate the tradeoff
between lesuire time and more money that longer hours bring.

So it seems that your two basic contentions are based on outdated
economics and social science ideas, namely:

1) lowering work hours increases efficiency.  If this were true, 
employeers would immediately do so so they could make more money.

2) Companies will demand inhuman hours.  They can already do this,
if they're willing to pay for it, but don't.  Employees would
defect to other companies with shorter hours.

Yet more arguments for treating people like adults, not hopeless
ninnies that need to be looked after by Big Brother.

(BTW, the internet had its primary roots in ARPA Net, a DOD-funded
project.)

-- 
Don McGregor             | "I..I blame society.  Society made me  
mcgredo@prism.cs.orst.edu|  what I am."
Xref: sparky alt.amateur-comp:78 soc.culture.usa:7671 alt.activism:17270 sci.econ:7998