HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: How much is too much?
Date: 15 Oct 92 16:14:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewse.1992Oct15.161459.12392
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Oct15.232457.11429@waikato.ac.nz> sma@waikato.ac.nz (Stephen Anderson) writes:
>I have a question.  is it really possible to go to a point where the exercise
>REDUCES muscle bulk.  I have heard, for instance, that after a certain distance
>in the marathon, the body starts burning muscle.  Is this true?  How much is
>too much.  As an example, someone I know spend 1 -2 hrs on the stepper daily. 
>is this sufficient the deplete muscle if that actually happens) or not?
>


I have a somewhat related question.  What experience have people had
with the interaction of weightlifting and aerobic exercising?

To be more exact, we know that a higher level of aerobic fitness
will help in other forms of activity, like weightlifting.  It's
also true that a workout that begins with one form or the other
will obviously take some energy that could have been expended
in the other.

I lift 3-5 times a week, with aerobic exercise 7 times a week.

I've read here that it's best to start with weightlifting and
then do the aerobic.  I've found after lifting, I'm really not
in any shape to do a decent aerobic workout, so I begin with
aerobic.

This sort of wipes me out for lifting.

A trainer I had way back in college said that in his experience,
mixing running with lifting almost guaranteed problems in building
mass.

I realize this is a great generalization, considering how much 
running and lifting one might do.

Bottom line is, does the lifting after aerobic exercise continue,
to any degree, the aerobic portion of the workout?  Does aerobic
workout itself have any limiting effect on the amount of mass I
can gain or maintain?  Or is it merely a question of my energy
level and what I actually lift (which is, I think, more measurable,
simply by how much work I can get done).  Does the lifting afterwards
have any deleterious effect on the benefits of the recovery phase
after aerobic work?

In other words, does aerobic+anaerobic == (aerobic) + (anaerobic),
so to speak.

Lots of complicated questions, I know, and lots of ground that
may have been covered in posts long ago, but any answers,
observations, anecdotal or not, or comments regarding any of these,
are very welcome and appreciated!  E-mail or posting is fine.

Thanks in advance!


GMS
From: jblst5@icarus.lis.pitt.edu (Jan B Larsen)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Press vs. Flys for Chest
Date: 10 Oct 92 15:43:41 GMT
Reply-To: jblst5@icarus.lis.pitt.edu
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article 10639@cbnewse.cb.att.com, gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
::In article <1992Oct7.151004.14470@spdc.ti.com: wall@spdc.ti.com (Raj Wall) writes:
::Flyes are great, and I usually do them at the end of each and every
::chest workout: but tell the person who told you than flat/incline
::benches are a waste of time that he doesn't know shit.
::
::If you were only to do 2 chest exercises for the rest of your life,
::it would be flat and incline presses.
::
:
:
:I agree.  Now, I would say that dumbbell presses are more difficult
:and require more synergistic muscle action of the tris, bis, delts,
:pecs, wrist adductors, etc..  I have two items for discussion.
:
:Is there any reason for straight bar benches to be better for anything?
:
 
 
 
:GMS

You can handle heavier weights with a barbell than two dumbbells. I guess this
could mean more growth (for some people). But then again you can get a longer 
range om motion with dumbbells.

Jan
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: bill@gaza.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (William J. King)
Subject: Re: WeightLifting Books
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 01:52:47 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.234535.5685@unocal.com> stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:
>In article <s04-g-A@engin.umich.edu> hajel@engin.umich.edu (john hajel) writes:
>>
>>Can anyone recomend a good weightlifting/body building book?
>>I am especially interested in a book written by a MD.

	What the hell does a MD know about Weightlifting!

--
    bill@uhunix.bitnet 
    bill@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu 
    21.19 N.LAT by 157.52 W.LONG          
    Fish on the Byte
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: too many sets (down to 4 from 8) -- warmup
Date: 15 Oct 92 22:51:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Oct15.225113.6952
Organization: Western Washington University


	I've decided that 8 sets per exercise is too many.  I cut down
to 4 last time and I was able to do higher quality sets.  The poster who 
said one will hold back when he knows he has many sets ahead may be right.
I can do more weight starting out, and I wonder if the 8th (or higher) set 
where I was as weak as a baby and doing reduced weight, was doing me any 
good before.   

For now I'm doing one warmup set, two heavy sets, and two less heavy sets.
Once I feel "warm" I skip the warmup, for example, on normal lats I just 
start right in because I just got done with front lats.    On military
press I start right in because I just got done with dumbell bench press.
like this:
		No-legs1:	heavy sets	medium-heavy sets
(first I do situps and back extentions on the roman chair)
front lat p.d.s		1x12, 	2x8,		2x10  
dumbell bench		1x12,	2x6,		2x8	(supersets)
	lat p.d.s		2x8,		2x10  
	military press		2x8,		2x8	(ss)
seated rows			2x8, 		2x8
		No-legs2:
preacher curls		1x12,	2x8,		2x8
tri pressdown		1x12,	2x8,		2x8 	(ss)
		Legs:
leg curl		1x12,	2x6,		2x8
universal squats	1x15,	2x15,		2x10	(ss)
calf raises		4x50

	For the last two sets on most things, I try to reduce the weight
just enough so that I can do the same number of reps as I could
on the heavy sets, but I haven't perfected it yet.  
	(i.e. if I'm screaming and biting my own neck to finish 2 good sets
of 15 reps on heavy squats there is no way I can duplicate the effort w/o 
bringing the weight down for the last two).

Too much energy spend on warmups makes me weak for the "real" sets, but 
what about too little:  Have any of you noticed anything bad from going 
right at your real sets?   I've done it and nothing bad has happened.

For now what I've been doing for most things is only one warmup, but 
treating it like a real set, as in I'm really doing a set, no playing
around.  It seems to work just fine for me, so I will keep it this way.
Same for the "4-5 sets on everything plan".

Jim Del Vecchio

btw re:
	"i.e. if I'm screaming and biting my own neck* to finish 2 good sets
of 15 reps on heavy squats..."

* (to remove the body.   It's called "coyote pain".)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: poo@athena.mit.edu (Claude Poux)
Subject: Growth Stagnation: Good, Bad or Normal?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: misc.fitness
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:17:38 GMT

my background is not in the life sciences, so my question/discussion may
be somewhat misdirected. nevertheless, i have been thinking about the
"plateau" problem that seems to frustrate so many of us in bodybuilding.

it seems to me that some period of stagnation in muscualr development is
not necessarily a consequence of stale routines, or
insufficient/inappropriate nutrition, sleep etc., but is, in fact,
perfectly normal.

consider: one's body suddenly develops 20 pounds of muscle tissue.  this
invariably introduces new demands of all kinds on the body -- i.e.,
skeletal system adjustment, endocrinological/biochemical changes are
precipitated, the circulatory system obviously has its new work cut out
for it, etc., not to mention the less subtle problems that we experience
with tendons/ligaments being slower to grow than our muscular systems.

the body, while engaged in this "in house" drama, may very well decide to
curb all growth activity until these other systems are in order.  we call
this stagnation, whereas the body may think of it as "time out."

has this issue been addressed already on the net?  i haven't seen this
point addressed directly in musclemag internationale (the rag that i
subscribe to).  

comments anyone?

poobear
From: kbarss@scott.skidmore.edu (Kelly Barss)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Aerobic VS. Weights
Date: 14 Oct 92 19:54:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: scott.1992Oct14.195454.23599
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY

pae@blackcat.stortek.com (Phil Earnhardt) writes:
> In article <1bf8ljINNh07@bigboote.WPI.EDU> rpc@wpi.WPI.EDU (Robert P Chauvin) writes:
> >
> >I have a question I'd like to ask for my girlfriend.  Is it better to
> >just do aerobic exercises to lose weight in the legs?  She does both
> >aerobic (step, bicycle, etc.) and also trains with weights.  She has good
> >definition in her legs and does not want to stop using weights.  She
> >does want to lose some fat in her legs.  Can she continue to do both or
> >should she just concentrate on the aerobic exercises until the desired
> >weight is lost?
> 
> For effective fat loss, the majority of exercise time should be spent in
> aerobic exercise.
> 
> --phil

and don't forget to change the eating habits if she hasn't already!  You'd
be surprised what changes can occur when you eat right!

Kelly.
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: poo@athena.mit.edu (Claude Poux)
Subject: Re: love handles
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:47:47 GMT

In article <NPk2RB1w165w@dorsai.com> beng@dorsai.com (ben ng) writes:
>I used to be overweight, 180lbs. Now I'm a comfortable, fit 150lbs.
>I'm exercising constantly, weights, push-ups, sit-ups, squats, etc.
>Yet one thing eludes me. Yep, them evil love handles..left over from
>my obese days..and still some bit of fat in the stomach area.
>I need to know of an excersie that will help me lose this fat, the love
>handles and something that will tighten the skin..other than surgury. :)
>Because of my sit-ups, I can see the ribbling washboard but faintly.
>Any ideas? Thanks All.
>
>Ben Ng
>beng@dorsaid.com
>uupsi!dorsaidm!beng

our colleague, virgilio velasco, responded to a similar question with the
following advice, if you can believe it:

"i suggest amputation.  since you want to do it at home, i also suggest a
dull kitchen knife.".....  :)  this had my office staff howling.....

seriously, continued aerobics (the bicycle) will continue to reduce your
fat level.  your muscles there may need some tightening too -- do some ab
and oblique work for this.....  and have patience......


poobear
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: split routine question
Date: 9 Oct 92 19:01:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Oct9.190104.9182
Organization: Western Washington University

bednarek@picard.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971) writes:


>Splitting it on a day of the week basis doesn't really balance it to me.
>I always rotate from one session to another, if you work arms 3 days 
>and legs one you could end up with 22" arms and 20" thighs.  If you
>want to stay balanced you need to spend an equal amount of time on 
>each muscle.	

I never go by day of the week, I just go by my routine, which for
some time has been non-leg-day, leg-day, over and over again, with
days off taken at random times depending on how I feel.  When it's 
time for chest and my chest is real sore, I skip it.  I've been
going in about 4 times a week lately, but I don't concern myself
with "what day of the week is it?" at all.  It's open every day, 
fortunately.
From: jblst5@icarus.lis.pitt.edu (Jan B Larsen)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Flat Butt
Date: 15 Oct 92 01:26:20 GMT
Reply-To: jblst5@icarus.lis.pitt.edu
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article KD2@acsu.buffalo.edu, v126pt49@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert P Baccaray) writes:
>I've got flat butt.  What weight exercises or any exercises can I do to make my
>rear end look healthier?


DEEEEEEEEEEEEP SQUATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jan


Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: sew@philabs.philips.com (Scott E. Wakeman)
Subject: Re: Press vs. Flys for Chest
Originator: sew@condor
Reply-To: sew@philabs.philips.com (Scott E. Wakeman)
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff, NY 10510
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 12:54:29 GMT


In article <1992Oct8.230406.7659@henson.cc.wwu.edu>, n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
|> glex@nitro.cray.com (Jeff Gleixner) writes:
|> 
|> >|> Recently I've been doing 6-8 sets of U-bench, then sometimes a few flys
|> >|> as my chest workout.   I've been avoiding free weight bench because
|> >|> I need to change the chest part of my workout to get some results.
|> >|> I'm thinking of supersetting 8 sets of 8 of U-bench with something like
|> 
|> >You sure do need to change your workout.  Try doing 3 sets of "all out, I 
|> >can't
|> >do another rep" type.  More sets are a waste of time.  Try to add 1 more rep
|> >to 1 of the sets each workout until you can do 12, then add 5 lbs.  Try
|> 
|> Why are more (than 3?) sets a waste of time?
|> 
|> I just went up to 8 from five:  8 u-bench, 8 m-press, & 8 dumbell-press.
|> I've tried fewer sets, but I feel like I don't even get pumped sometimes.
|> 
|> How about for squats?
|> 
|> Jim D

   24 sets of chest and triceps in one workout? I thought I was heavy doing
 15.

   squats???  hmmm I do 6 sets of squats , 6 sets of leg press , and 4 sets
  of leg extension and leg curl. I'm burning up by the time I'm done.

***********************************************************************
scott  e. wakeman                   *     
North American Philips Laboratories * only my opinions ...who elses???
email   sew@philabs.philips.com     *
***********************************************************************
                           Imagine Whirled Peas
***********************************************************************
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: kbarss@scott.skidmore.edu (Kelly Barss)
Subject: Re: Who won the Nationals?
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:55:07 GMT

kbarss@scott.skidmore.edu (Kelly Barss) writes:
> seove@mars.lerc.nasa.gov (ERIC OVERTON) writes:
> > 
> > Who won the National Bodybuilding contest?
> > 
> > Eric
> 
> Which National Bodybuilding contest?
> 
> Kelly
> 

Hey Eric!  Found this on the weights group - maybe this is what you want to
know??!!:

I think someone asked about the results of the NPC Nationals.

Well, I just got back and John Sherman...the "Sherman Tank" took 
the light heavy and overall.

Chris Duffy, 22 years old, 2nd to Flex Wheeler at the USA this year, took
the heavyweight class.  Paul Quadzilla DeMayo took fourth.  Unfortunately,
Paul's legs weren't "too" separated.  He has definitely improved on his
upper body.  Next year might be his year.  I'm partial to quads 
(my boyfriend has big quads too!), so I was partial to DeMayo.  I'm going
to have to send him ALL those Black and Whites I took of him :-) !
But then again there's Dennis Newman, Chris Duffy, Beau Matlock, and 
others on the rise.  Castiglione (JR Nationals) placed top 5 as well.
Mercury Morris Clairborne, "Mr. Natural", was competing there in the light
weight class (up from bantamweights).  Placed 5th.

Droirit Kernes took the middle and overall for the women.  
Denise Rutkowski deserved first (IMHO) in the heavy and overall, but Laura
Bass took first in the heavy.  Something changed with the judging criteria
for the women.  Ray Hollit was there in the middle weights.  Top 15.
Linda McGaunn from NH made top 15.  All the women are confused on the judging
criteria.  Seemed pretty random to me.  

[Drorit Kernes beat Denise Rutkowski!!?  -MTS]

Couples winner Craig Lickers and Celina Martins from Massachusetts were in
the best condition, but the couple that took second deserved first for 
there "incredible" routine.  

The crowd bood the judges when Bev Francis and Tom Terwillinger announced
them.  

Laura Creavalle, Chris Aceto, Bev and her husband, Jeff Everson, Mike Quinn,
Vince Taylor, Shawn Ray, Flex Wheeler, Lee Lebrada, Carla Dunlap, Mike Katz,
Lee Haney, John Parillo were all there as well....and, of course, Joe
Weider.  Alot of the Miss Fitness competitors as well.  And some women
were wearing outfits with their buttocks AND (YES!) cellulite hanging out.


Interesting...

Kelly.
From: tino@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (allen.j.tino)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Legenary Abs - Fit For Life
Date: 9 Oct 92 19:13:23 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

From article <4069@cvbnetPrime.COM>, by bledbett@fish.prime.com (Bruce Ledbetter):
> 
> 
>         Over a year ago there was much talk over the "Legendary Abs"
>         program from Fit For Life.  I snagged the routine of the net
>         and have been using with great sucess, but I'd like to have the
>         real thing from the real people.  Can someone please provide me with
>         an address or phone number of Fit For Life so that I can legitimately
>         order the booklet about Legendary Abs?

That's Health For Life 1-800-874-5339.
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: glex@nitro.cray.com (Jeff Gleixner)
Subject: Re: Press vs. Flys for Chest
Originator: glex@nitro
Reply-To: glex@nitro.cray.com (Jeff Gleixner)
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: 9 Oct 92 18:02:31 CDT


In article <1992Oct9.111449.14173@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, wittmann@engr.wisc.edu (art wittmann) writes:
|> Are you counting warmups, or do you just jump right in at 300 lb benches?

Warm-up then up to 450 for a few.. ;-)))  I don't count warm-ups in with
sets, because to me it's just a warm up.  I only count the sets that I'm
bustin' my buns to complete.


-- 
glex@nitro.cray.com  === "Difficult tasks are never easy..."
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: bednarek@picard.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971)
Subject: Re: split routine question
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Magnetic Resonance
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 08:36:29 GMT


Splitting it on a day of the week basis doesn't really balance it to me.
I always rotate from one session to another, if you work arms 3 days 
and legs one you could end up with 22" arms and 20" thighs.  If you
want to stay balanced you need to spend an equal amount of time on 
each muscle.	

--
---------------------------
| UP TIGHT                 | 
| OUT OF SIGHT             |
| EVERY THING IS ALL RIGHT | 
___________________________

The usual disclaimer of self
 and employer applies to all
 above comments.
#
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: bednarek@picard.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971)
Subject: Re: Press vs. Flys for Chest 
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Magnetic Resonance
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 07:27:24 GMT


Actually declines, flat, and inclines work diferent parts of the chest.
Dumbell, verses bar also have a tendency to stress different parts.
A well rounded chest requires all of these in various combinations.
Don't get bored with the same work out every day.  Example
day 1 incline dumbells
      flat bench press
      decline dumbells

day 2 incline presses
     flat dumbells
     decline presses

Only don't limit your self to only 3 per workout, add cables etc.

BO

--
---------------------------
| UP TIGHT                 | 
| OUT OF SIGHT             |
| EVERY THING IS ALL RIGHT | 
___________________________

The usual disclaimer of self
 and employer applies to all
 above comments.
#
From: budn@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Bud Noren)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: heart rate monitor question
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:59:13 GMT
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (SRSD MWTD)


 hwk@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (henry.w.krautter)  writes:

>I just purchased a Performance, a bicycle company, HRM and found it won't
>work with a Lifecycle bikes at a gym I go to. Probably interference from
>electromagnetic radiation, from the Lifecycle. Can anybody tell me if HRM's
>from other companies such as Polar also show this interference. 

I have a CIC HRM and have noticed the same thing.

-Bud
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: hweingra@.com (Howard Weingram)
Subject: Re: Rowing question
Reply-To: hweingra@oracle.UUCP (Howard Weingram)
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, CA
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 03:11:40 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Sep30.163419.1@kean.ucs.mun.ca> gbrown@kean.ucs.mun.ca writes:
>Does anyone know why the Olympic rowers (8-person with a cox) put out 45 
>strokes per minute at the beginning of their race, then go down to 32 by 
>the finish? Are they "sprinting" for about a minute then switching to 
>aerobic? I don't understand this strategy. Any comments?
>
>Donna Somerton 
>OSC, Memorial Univ. of Nfld.

Let's see if I recall this correctly (if I mess it up, somebody
flame me...).

The body cannot go from rest to full aerobic energy utilization
all at once. It takes about 45 seconds to get the "aerobic engine"
running. In the meantime, the rower relies on the ATP system for
energy.

There is another reason to go out high and try for an early lead.
The rowers face backwards, so the leaders can see everybody else
but cannot themselves be seen unless their competitors break concentration and
look around. This gives the leaders a psychological advantage.

Racing strategies vary, however. The most popular among the gold
medal boats in the recent Olympics seems to have been the defensive
strategy: "go out hard and establish an early lead, and then hold
everyone off from that commanding position." 

Of course, the opposite strategy is also used: stay just behind the
competition (or at least the leader) for the first 1000m and then
crank it up and blow through them in the second 1000m. It's really
demoralizing to have someone go through you. An undisciplined crew
can panic under the stress.

Even the offensive, second-thousand strategy uses an initial burst,
however.

In a close race (sadly, I didn't see any on Banjoles) no one is going
to be at a 32 (strokes/min) at the finish line. A crew can only
"cruise" into the finish if it has a sizeable lead and is assured
of a win as long as no one catches a crab or jumps a slide. 
In a tight final, with two (or better yet, 3 or 4 or 5) boats fighting
for the lead in the last 500m, everyone is likely to jack the rate
up again to a 38 or 40 for the last 30-35 strokes of the race after
having rowed at 35-37 for the middle 1200m.

Then there are some crews that row whole races between 38 and 40:
Penn's heavyweight 8, for example, and a lot of lightweight crews.

			hal
From: lrxi00@icts01.Kodak.COM (James Nonnemacher)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: RE copyrighted Documents
Date: 7 Oct 92 20:45:26 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Eastman Kodak Co

I think posting, verbatim, copyrighted documents on the network would be in violation of the 
copyright laws.