From: starbuck@ucrmath.ucr.edu (aaron greenwood)
Newsgroups: alt.feminism,soc.women
Subject: Re: Hating Men with Full Force
Date: 4 Sep 92 03:49:02 GMT
Followup-To: alt.feminism
Organization: University of California, Riverside

In article dsm40@mcode.amdahl.com (Diana St.Martin) writes:
=>In article starbuck@ucrmath.ucr.edu (aaron greenwood) writes:
=>
=> Correct?  You may think that most women hate or dislike men.  You are
=> wrong, very very wrong.

.> Just for the sake of accuracy, could you provide some support for this 
.> statement please.

Obviously you believe that most women either hate or dislike men.  Some
women in soc.women have also stated so with examples.  It was not my
point to change your mind.  It was my point to point out the falsehood
of such statements so such poison may not spead. 

And poison it surely is.  I see the promotion of hate as a political 
tactic used by feminist.  They use it to round up women the way a
cowperson rides the range rounding up steers.  Fill em up with fear
and hate, rawhide.  Feminism has changed from something noble to
a second rate politcal movement.  Just like the right had the commies,
the radical feminist have men. 

I know some people use the word feminist to mean women's rights and
support of women's issues but I fear they are mislead.  Feminism
today means the vitimization of women.  That my friend is wrong.

Accuracy?  A nice tatic for refuting my post.  I'll give you support
just like the personal examples that were given by those who 
support the notion that most women hate men.

I have friends and associates of all races and genders.  I travel in
many circles.  What I see is men and women in relationships that are
working.  Not just personal realtionships but work related, sports
related, and social related.  I see women moving up in the academic
world, not in isolation but with men.  I see women making it in
real estate, banking, private business, and a host of other activities
that include relating with men.  If they are hating men then they
are doing a good job of hiding it.  Yea I know some losers, and
they are the one's who activly hate men.

=> The words that come to mind are terrorist and fanatic.  I think they fit
=> Ms. Shah's character very well indeed. And like a terroist she would like
=> to vilify, fragment, and distroy for no reason but an unhealthy emotion.
=> Her statements are the product of a sever personallity disorder.  They
=> are without merit.

.> Hmmm.  Maybe yes and maybe no.  It would be interesting to know how she 
.> arrived at her conclusion.  It might be completely valid *for her*.

Sure thing.  It may be valid for her.  But what's the value to anyone
else?  The women is promoting hate.  Thats right hate.  And what paths
will hate lead you down?  Is hate an emotion women should cultivate?

Ever hear that song "Johnny Too Bad", it's about hate in the west indies.
Johnny Too Bad ain't no Ghandi, he's got a gun in his hand.  Oh he hates,
and pulls the trigger a few times before he is shot down like a dog.

It's a great song.  Tariffic drums.  Yea, I understand it as art. The poetry 
of the lyrics goes right to you soul.  But in the end Johnny too Bad is
dead.  Johnny Too Bad didn't change anything. 

In LA we just had riots.  Hate had a big part in those riots.  Hate
of Koreans, hate of the police, and hate of whites.  Read the papers
lately?  Guns sale are up at about 1000 a day.  The NRA is gaining
new members at a 1500 a day.  After the last riot in the 60's their
was white flight from the cities, this time it is the middle class
of all races who are moving.  What will be left?  Rebuild LA?  Will
it work?  Hate hurts so good!
 
=> We should save our praise for women of character, women who have made
=> something of themselves and women who are positive examples of fully
=> developed human beings.  There are millions of women who would fit
=> that description like the the athelete that posted about being the
=> first female to play collegiate ice hockey.  Or my sister-in-law who owns
=> her on software and systems consulting company, or my wife who is an RN
=> in a Neo-natal intensive care unit keeping babies alive, or the migrant
=> farmworker's daughter who for some reason was able to change high schools
=> over and over and still get a full boat to Stanford, or the single mother
=> who does what she has to do in order to raise and support her children, or
=> any of a million other stories.

.> All of the examples you list are indeed good ones, but the question that 
.> comes to my mind is "Who defines character"?  It means many things to many 
.> people.  You obviously have one definition and I have another.

Do you mean Jacun Shah has good character?  If so you, are right we do have
different definitions.  I do not agree that all lifestyles are equivelent.

.> The statements to which you are objecting may actually have a place in the 
.> scheme of things.  Who knows, they might actually make some people wake up 
.> and think for themselves (we need much more of this).  They certainly 
.> appear to have grabbed your attention.
.> Diana

Everything has a place in the scheme of things.  I just don't get it.  I do
do not understand how Jacun Shah could aid any person in learning how to
think for themselves.  

What got my interest was the support garbage like Jacun Shah puts out got
from feminist on the net.  You want respect.  You want. You want. You want.
But you just will not give.

starbuck

Life is deeper than feminist thought

Consider the quote from Jacsun Shah, a reporter from the Houston Chronicle
one more time.  And tell me how much value does it have.

>->   "Yes, I am a man hater, yes, I am a feminist. and why not?
>->    Women are dying . They die every day, at the hands of men.
>->    Men ... beat them, rape them, dismember them. Hell yes, I
>->    hate men ... To all of you women out there, I say _hate_.
>->    You have every right to ... I knew the kindest thing I could
>->    do for the women of this world is to hate men with full force."
Newsgroups: alt.feminism