HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Chocolate (was Re: "gangway, folx")
Date: 22 Aug 92 04:54:05 GMT
Organization: Ailanthus Project

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

>
> Everything BUT blue.  I guess you'd call `em hazel.  They're sort of a
> light brown, with gold bits in them (lots of that), grey rims, and look
> green in certain weather, though not nearly green enough for me.
>
> Basically think of the one color of eyes that has never before been seen
> by the OTHER eyes of humanity.  That's it!

they sound lovely!  my dad had eyes like that, as did my exhusband...  B)
could there be a pattern here?

                                                   -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com                   ________
      No visible means of support          Silence \      / Action
      and you have not seen nothing yet.      =     \    /    =
      Everything's come together.           Death    \  /    Life
                                                      \/
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:7954 alt.divination:289
From: wlamonac@bach.helios.nd.edu (william lamonaca)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.divination
Subject: Re: Tarot: What's the blank card for?
Date: 18 Aug 92 03:29:07 GMT
Organization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame

In article <1992Aug17.200212.4953@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9140397@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Michael J. Hamilton) writes:
>In article <1992Aug11.204914.17176@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> netnews@porthos.cc.bellcore.com (USENET System Software) writes:
>>
>>Has anyone read and practiced Tarot Spells.  I forgot the
>>author.
>>
>
>Seems like there was a book on Tarot Spells by Melita Demming
>and Osbourne Phillips, published by Llewwylin (sp?).
>
>Dymen.

There is also one called _Tarot Spells_ by Janina Renee that I've seen.  I
haven't bought a copy and would like to know if it's any good.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: n9140397@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Michael J. Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Tarot: What's the blank card for?
Summary: Maybe you aren't supposed to know...
Keywords: Tarot, Native American
Organization: Western Washington University
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:37:07 GMT

A friend of mine had a Native American deck based
on totems with blank cards.  If they came up, it
represented something that you needed to find out on
your own, rather than having it given to you.

Something like that...

Dymen.



Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: Hitler and Christianity
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:11:42 GMT

In article <24908@castle.ed.ac.uk> loki@castle.ed.ac.uk (A Kashko) writes:
>In article <bszu8q.m2p@wang.com > smayo@wang.com (Scott Mayo) writes:(?)
> >in the Middle ages and it seems to happen in America today. You'd be
> >surprised at the number of fundamentalists (using the old meaning of the
> >word) who are appalled at the politicalization of Christianity and
> >Christian-associated topics. But of course, the ones being appalled don't
> >have access to prime time TV, so they go unnoticed.
>
>	They xould write letters to their archbishops/cardinals, and lobby
>for official church condemnation of the lunatic fringe, and stronger
>action by mainstream churches, They could ring up chat shows with the
>nutacses on and call them lunatic nazis hiding behind the cross. Being
>quietly and genteelly appalled is a classic example of "for evil to
>triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing".

It takes time for liberal christians to develop strength and clarity of
their convictions and there are many settings where this is undercut
by an attitude "it's ok to think differently but please don't talk about 
it" or papering over differences for the sake of "christian unity".

There *are* Christians who have more in common with neo-pagans than
with the fundamentalists. Admitting this is one step short of leaving
the Christian church entirely.


-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
 alunde@nuacvm.bitnet |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Amber...Jet.
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 05:09:45 GMT

ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:

>some jet too, and the heck with the gardnerian priestesses!  i want an amber
>and jet beaded necklace too!!!

If I could, I'd buy you one! :)

>do carved amber beads smell nice when worn like the amber chunks i have do?
>the amber necklaces i haev seen look too much like plastic...

No, the amber resin is not as fossilised as the amber gems.  Also, much of what 
is sold as amber *is* plastic. :(

              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)
From: clgp14@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Adolf Hitler
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:27:02 GMT
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster

In article <BsuntA.Dp7@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:
> shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith) writes:
> 
>>..Janis was posting something about A. Hitler recently. I thought
>>that this resume (ask not where it comes!) might be of interest.
> 
> Why not ask where it comes?  That is always my first question.  Is this your
> composition or someone elses?  It has a bibliography at the end, but it is
> not footnoted, so I have no idea how much of it is based on which books, and
> how biased the interpretation is.

Having studied this topic if history quite closley for a number of years,
I thought that it was a good if compact history of the rise and fall of
Herr Hitler.

Ian Davis
From: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling)
Subject: re: to questions
Reply-To: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 13:47:44 GMT

1: whin i die i will go to some place befor returning to this world-the
duration in that some place is unknown
2:uncertint-i hope so but i am not perfect and i beleave that heaven is what
one abtains when they acomplish pure goodness.
3:i have done my best to help and gove to uthers thou i do not feal that i
deserve that honer

for your cureosity.


ELF-KIN
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: dalton@cord.Geop.UBC.CA (David Dalton)
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Organization: Dept. of Geophysics & Astronomy, UBC, Vancouver, Canada
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 08:43:52 GMT

R.A. MacAvoy has written some fantasies with pagan overtones,
notably  Damiano: A Trio for Lute, the Gray Horse, and Tea With
the Black Dragon, among others.

I will scan my library for other books when I go home.

Gaia rules ------------------------  David <Dalton@Geop.UBC.Ca>
From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: New group details and comments.
Date: 14 Aug 92 10:17:24 GMT
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

In article <1992Aug12.014834.7887@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>,
radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (Tim Radzykewycz) writes:
>krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick) writes:
>> So we end up waving a red flag and a few assholes come forth.  IMHO, as a
>> community, we won't get anywhere until we are willing to stand up against
>> this kind of activity, and not wither into the background when someone
>> yells "BOO!"

>Well, there's a difference between standing up & fighting and provoking
>a fight.  Creating something which we *know* will annoy a lot of the
>fundies into posting burn-in-hell type stuff is simply asking for a
>fight.  When it happens, *we* are the ones who would be responsible
>for it.

Okay....  The question can be simplified it seems...  Would be be creating
s.r.p. for the sake of creating a fight, or because it is what we want?  If
it's for a fight, we should drop the idea right now.  If not, we should say to
hell with the fundies and start it dispite them...

>We'll get some fires-of-hell postings regardless of what we call our
>groups, but no sense in fanning the flames, is there?  Let's stand up
>for ourselves when we need to, but let's not go looking for problems
>either.

I think the matter becomes one of intent (as stated above.)  To bring more than
the base INTENT to sway our reasoning seems, well, like giving in to the
fundie-voices before they've even spoken!

Krikket               ! krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us ! USnail:3 Danada Square E.
a.k.a Doug Krick      ! Team Star Charter Member   !        Suite 246
Data ph# 708/665-9732 ! #include<std.disclaimers>  !        Wheaton, Il 60187
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Just another commentary on the sad state of affairs on our nation today.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Subject: Re: Hitler and Christianity
Reply-To: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 15:22:03 GMT

Conrad Leviston writes:
>	Firstly, "Religion is the opium of the people.". Karl Marx may
>not Secondly, "The devil may quote scriptures.". Perhaps not a
>good

Paul Harvey writes:
>And the Christian Devil may even write scriptures, I leave you
>Luke 14:26 to ponder. Follow me and be free, he said.

Ciaran Benson writes:

  In Doctor Who (with Tom Baker) where he discovers the SeverTeam,
and an ancient accident he had created, the phrase was;

  "Destroy and be Free"

  Fits better on a bumper sticker, don't you think ?

  I got flamed for expressing this before, but I'll do it again.
Like ailsa suggested, why don't you guys take this PURELY
CHRISTIAN ARGUMENT to someplace like alt.Christianity where
there's likely to be alot of people there who are primarily
Christian (although admittedly, it sounds from people's posts
like some of the folks who do post here and who identify with
the word "pagan" -- that is, consider themselves to be "pagan",
also call themselves fundimental or evangelical Christians -- will
wonders never cease?  Maybe I should bop over to the Christian
board to talk about Paganism.)

  I mean, really, a discussion of dat ol' debbel on alt.Pagan?

  Without even one reference to rituals? ;)

  And in anticipation of more of that same hate-mail, yes,
I do think anyone who wants to should hang out in alt.pagan, but
I'm sure as hell NOT going to stop talking about the Goddess just
because some folks who hang out here HATE references to the
Goddess or Paganism and find it "disturbing" or "unrelated".

  Or have I missed the point ... are there Christian appologist
hanging out here watching for any possible slight of their
religion in anyone's post, then slamming the board with
explainations and quotes and references until the thread becomes
an exploration of interpretations of scriptures?

  Should we appoint a committee to hang out on alt.xtian (or
whatever it's called) and do the same for Pagan viewpoints ?

  Nah -- doesn't sound like much fun to me.
From: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling)
Subject: cards
Reply-To: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 14:22:12 GMT

i notice that most of the talk here on cards deals with tarot cards. as i
am not perticularly interested in the futuer i dont realy read all of these
posts. i am how ever interested in the past, past lives in perticular. 
because of this i am going to be giting a deck of phenix cards and would
apresheat any information/opinons on them from any one who has had any
expereance with them.

ELF-KIN	i do not presume to understand the nature of *god*
From: donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: new hassles
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:14:50 GMT
Organization: The Brewer's Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

idfraser@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Ian Fraser) writes:

> - In article <3N5oPB2w164w@drc.uucp> alizard@drc.uucp (A.Lizard) writes:
> 
> - >It seems that a group called the Traditional Values Coalition had
> - >a local chapter which had a clown named Bryce Alexander giving a
> - >fundie style lecture on the Craft. It made the news because a group
> - >of Wiccans protested it.
> 
> Is there any plan to attempt to deal with these idiots through the courts?
> Some sort of discrimination, slander, or "Promoting hatred" type of civil sui

Perhaps a "Civil Rights" suit, like the ones they are filing on the 
Rodney King beaters...

> 
> If there is, please post an address where I can send a donation. ($20 anadian
> dollars may not buy mush down there, but t's a start.)

sounds good to me. Count me in!


--------------------
Donal, Sysop of The Brewer's Witch BBS -- +1 713 272 7350
(Internet) donal@brewich.hou.tx.us  (Work) bill%pssi@lobster.hou.tx.us
(CIS) 76460,1443 
(SCA) Ld. Donal Dubh, IC of Dun Bruddair, B of the Stargate, K of Ansteorra
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Firewalk
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:01:39 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim) writes:
: 
: Donal, well put!  Yes, this is a religious newsgroup.  We obviously don't
: want to exclude scientific discussion here, but the focus and reason for
: the group centers around paganism, a term that (last time I looked it up)
: referred to polytheistic beliefs (among other things...).  There does seem
: to be a unnecessary tendency in this group lately to justify a scientific
: approach to a mystical/religious topic.  How is this so?

Among other things is right. 

"... 2. a person who has little or no religion ...   : an irreligious or
hedonistic person."

So, even the dictionaries, which are not necessarily correct - do not
feel that Paganism refers to religion. I can guarantee that the pagans
who are also atheists would disagree with you. I think the same would be
true of the agnostic pagans.

I personally feel that the term "pagan" is impossible to define, other than
in a general sense. 

... deleted ...

: I object to those who push a scientific worldview to the exclusion of any 
: other.  There is no balance in such a stilted Weltansicht.  Physics discussing

I would also object - that is as stupid as insisting on a religious or magical
worldview, excluding all others.

... deleted ...

: Nobody can have an entirely physical, entirely mental or 
: entirely spiritual Weltanschauung.  We all live in all three.  Each realm
: is legitimate and deserves its legitimacy.  When The Church tries to become
: the arbiter of scientific inquiry, or The State legislates religion, then
: we see the end of science, the end of religion; two occurrences that have
: happened historically. 

Agreed. But attempting to define such terms as "pagan", to fit a particular
worldview - is a start in that direction. It begins the exclusion process
of "us vs them".

... deleted ...

: To return to my main point, and summarize, I just wish to caution those who
: attempt to cross between the realms when making a point.  You cannot explain
: the mystical experience of firewalking.  Yes, the physical experience can be
: explained, and this is a legitimate explanation from a scientific viewpoint.

I don't think anyone was saying that mystical experiences could be explained,
at least, not fully. Nor do I think anyone was belittling such experiences.

However, in this case - the mystical experience was not the ability to walk
on the coals unburned - it was the convincing oneself to do so, in the first
place and then carrying it through. 

Bill
From: pierson@kukri.mps.mlo.dec.com (dan pierson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:36:37 GMT
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

Couple of older books:

E.R.R.Eddison: "Mistress of Mistresses" and "Fish Dinner in Memiszon" (sp?)
    Warning: You either like or hate Eddison's heavy, antique style.

    This unfinished trilogy (the unfinished third book, "The Mezentian
    Gate", was published by Ballentine along with the others) is
    rooted in Eddison's very personal vision of the incarnations of
    Venus and her Byronic counterpart/lover.  While you'll probably
    not always agree with Edisson's view of the world, it's well worth
    reading.

    IMHO, these are both much better, and much more interestingly
    pagan than the better known "Work Ouroborous".  I suspect that
    many folks were turned off by it and never got to these.

John Buchanan: "The Moon Endureth".
    A collection of intermixed mainstream short stories and poems from
    the late 19th and early 20th century.  Very good, wish I'd read it
    earlier (I'm in the middle of it right now).

William Morris: "The Water of the Wonderous Isles" and several others
    Sometimes the pagan themes are (rather thinly) cloaked with
    Christianity, sometimes they're overt.

                                            dan

--
Dan L. Pierson          Digital Equipment Corporation
pierson@crl.dec.com     Massively Parallel Systems Group
From: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: triple aspects <long religious rant> (oops)
Date: 11 Aug 92 18:33:14 GMT
Reply-To: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN

Another one from the "Nough ware did I poot mi diksionarie ?"

Sory, alisa, I mispeled you're name "alison".

Mi apolloggies.

Blesed bie, "Toech Tiepest" Ceareon (Ciaran).
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: aardvark@dragon (Pam Williams)
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Organization: University of Lowell Computer Science, Lowell MA
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 02:58:16 GMT

Personally, I HATED "The Magus." My memories of it are of a mostly dull plot
about a pathetic main character and his manipulation by several people who
are made out to be powerful and vaguely sinister but who are quite unimpress-
ive. I remember that I held a big grudge against a good friend of mine for
inflicting that long, boring thing-that-walks-like-a-novel on me. Not even
the supposed parallels to the Tarot (it has 78 chapters) could redeem it in
my eyes. But then again, I read the "classics" for the story...

Some of my favorites (feel free to blast them to pieces in retaliation):
"Moonheart" and "Greenmantle" by Charles DeLint - Wonderful, magical, and
more than a little scary at times. I've noticed that DeLint's villains are
REALLY gross, sickeningly evil people, and their nasty acts are told in
deliciously gruesome detail. The Bad Guys are really bad, and the Good gutys
don't usually come out of the battle without a lot of healing to do. If you
have a weak stomach or unusually active imagination, you may want to pass him
by, but for the strong in constitution and those who are horror fans as well
as Fantasy Lit fans his books are a great find.

"Contrarywise" and "Trickster's Touch" by Zohra Greenhalgh - True gems for
all you Trickster fans out there. You know who you are... Written by a woman
who is a former student of Jane Roberts and Seth. The tone and some of the
content are reminiscent of Jane Roberts' books about Oversoul Seven (IMHO...
any readers of the Seth Material out there care to comment?). These two books
are among my all-time favorites.

"Door into Fire" and "Door into Shadow" by Diane Duane - I'm very fond of these two books, mostly because they were the first books I read which had well-
rounded, developed queer main characters (btoh male and female). I really
like Duane's mythology and the construction of her world, even though some
aspects of her world's operating magic system bother me a bit. They're a little
hard to find these days, but are worth looking for.

"War for the Oaks" and "Bone Dance" by Emma Bull - Two different novels, one 
concerning the Seelie and Unseelie Courts and what happens when their battle
erupts into modern-day Minneapolis and involves a young musician, and the
other set in the post-disaster future where the technological reality behind
"the divine horsemen" clashes with the magical reality behind the same.

And finally, John Myers Myers' "Silverlock," a book that every person who has
ever had to take English Lit. courses in school should read. Trying to catch
ALL the references in this book would be a daunting task indeed! Unfortunately
I didn't discover it until years after I had graduated from College. 


-- 
Pamela S. Williams                         85 Gershom Ave. #3
a.k.a. Wonder Aardvark                     Lowell, Ma 01854
aardvark@dragon.cpe.ulowell.edu            (508)453-1753
WWIVNet: St. Zolfo the Redeemed for Valuable Cash Prizes (64@5806)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Subject: Re: Numbers (Back to the Inquisition)
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 02:26:09 GMT

I missed all but a few of the articles discussing deaths-by-Nazis vs.
deaths-by-Catholics, but...

What is the point?  Was there some competition, in honor of the Olympics
perhaps, to see who did the most damage?

The Nazis probably killed more people outright.

The Catholic Church, by (attempting to) eliminate all dissent for centuries,
laid the foundation for the Nazi's to come in and proclaim The Truth.  The
deaths in WWII, regardless of Hitler's belief in Christianity, belong in
part on the doorstep of the Catholic Church for inculcating a culture where
dissent from those in power is not tolerated.

Remember the price paid for suppressing dissent.  Then reflect on J. Edgar
Hoover collecting reports on Americans with "undesireable" beliefs....


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: aardvark@dragon (Pam Williams)
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Organization: University of Lowell Computer Science, Lowell MA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 02:18:29 GMT

Well, at least the latest paperback edition of "The Way of Wyrd" has a really
nice and pleasant-to-look-at cover. I remmember being absolutely horrified
to see the hack job the people who put out the previous paperback edition did
on the book. It looked like a really bad rendering of someone's 1960s
nightmare of an acid trip -- really garish, and something almost guaranteed
to turn anyone off of the book. Fortunately, I read it originally in the
hardback edition (borrowed from a friend), so I was able to convince some 
people that it was worth their while to read in spite of the awful cover.

I can only think that the person at the publishing house who was responsible 
for choosing the cover had made the connection with shamanism and drugs and
went on from there, totally ignoring the content of the book itself.

-- 
Pamela S. Williams                         85 Gershom Ave. #3
a.k.a. Wonder Aardvark                     Lowell, Ma 01854
aardvark@dragon.cpe.ulowell.edu            (508)453-1753
WWIVNet: St. Zolfo the Redeemed for Valuable Cash Prizes (64@5806)