HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mirza@sce.carleton.ca (Murad A. Mirza)
Subject: Re: For those who say "Eid for Muslims only"......
Keywords: EID DALLAS
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 02:41:51 GMT

jel3435@chemvx.tamu.edu writes:

>...please refer to the Dallas Morning News article on April 6 (?) in the
>Today Section describing the huge Eid festival held south of Dallas where
>about 700 souls were in attendance.  (Cover copy features two Grannies
>in veils playing on a cloth Parchisi board.)  Attendees included practicing
>Muslims, non-practicing Muslims, homesick Muslims, Christians, Secular
>Humanists, Observers and probably some atheists too.  :-)  Food was served
>and (surprise) the juice of Bacchus flowed.  

>J.L.

assalam alaikum

good you pointed this out, i was one of the ones too.  you are right when
its time to share then there is no mutual exclusion.  but since prayer
is only limited to muslims and since Eid is a token of appreciation
(partial description) for the Muslims who have fasted for Ramazan
therefore the protocol according to Islam is to greet them with
Eid Mubarak, for others I would as always follow their protocols for
greeting.

so much for nice talk.  Coming to the Sick Muslims and juice of wrath,
they must have enjoyed the party eh!!! the people at BCCI in Miami were
enjoying the party too when the Grannies in veils became wolves and
Observers turned into FBI.  What about people of Lot were they there too
or they came in as Christians (Allah gives direction) and Humanists.

thanks for your keen observation, keep us posted.

Murad Mirza.
From: memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re Karachi is mini pak
Date: 15 Apr 92 21:55:45 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UB

From: zaheer@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Imrana Zaheer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Pakistan is the place to live


>In article <1992Apr7.000601.19207@athena.mit.edu> anajam@athena.mit.edu (ADIL NAJAM) writes:
>>However, the subject of this post is not Karachi.......it is PAKISTAN.
>>I presume that the same was true of Salman's original post.
>>
>>Karachi is indeed a micro-organism of Pakistan
                     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(imrana writes)

  >WHAT A RESEMBLANCE? Now my question is if Karachi is mini-Pakistan
  >then are other cities of PAkistan experience the same what Karachi
  >has experience during the last ten years.

  >Any comments Mr. Adil. And no flames please!

 >I hope I have not provoked any person on the net by my article. If so I 
 >apologize and to you Ms. Rutgers[:-)] I sincerely.

It is interesting that Adil said that Karachi is the micro-organism of 
Pakistan. If I could mention a word that Adil may have been thinking 
in the back of his mind. It is microcosm. Meaning miniature.

Imrana's interpretation of the micro-organism was interesting to read. Again
if I could just mention one think that bothers me being the Karachiite is that
we have not attributed the problems of Karachi to the influx of refugees  
after the 79 Iranian revolution, and the Afghan war. In the riots of 77 between
the PNA-PPP etc, there were no heavy weapons used whereas throughout the
80s the influx of Afghans contributed to the demise of peace in the
city of lights. I mean we are talking rocket launchers from Defence.  Also 
no Karachiite would dispute that Karachi was'nt the same city after the Bushra
Zaidi case in North Karachi.


>Pakistan is place to live!


Well speaking for myself, I never thought differently as if there was no
other choice. Anyway I should stop here before this is taken as a flame.
People are very senstive so close to the finals.



Naveed
From: khant@topaz.ucq.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Another Question from Nasir Ahmed Noor
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:33:54 AET
Organization: University of Central Queensland, Australia


I know that i will not believe you as you did not believe me. The cnclusion

from me is, you should accept Islam and save yourself from going to Dozaq.

That is my best suggestion to you.  Have you got any logic which say that

a man is very liked by Allah and died in toilet.  I thin we those who can

not say ourself realy a good muslim, are better than a man who died in a 

toilet.  Toelet is worse place to die.  Allah can not gives worse death to

his noble man than toilet.  If your (naooz billah toba) rasool was a 

noble man or a man who was liked very much by Allah then how come he could

have died in a toilet, a worse place in the world to die.  Is not it enough 

for the defination of a worse ever man in the world. I think that is an easy

to understand logic to prove a fitna.  I have read that your Ghulam Qadiyani

was a superb man, he was a good follower of Allah but before his claim of 

nabi (naooz billah toba), before the attack of iblees (shahtan-e-murdood).

Just see through a simple logic how come a man who is died in toilet, can 

be a Rasool or nabi. I think it is enough for a child to understand that a 

man who was died in toilet can not be a good man of Allah rather than a 

worse man among the humanity and kindness. Even Allah does want a true

Kafir or chiristane to die in toilet. Allah wanted to show the people the

end of a worse man death. (Beshak Allah Her Chees Per Qadir Hai).
From: khan@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (LAHORI POOND)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Following up on articles .... how do we KILL ?
Date: 14 Apr 92 04:34:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.45283
Organization: Purdue University

> 
> Mr. Lahori poond, don't you have any respect for religion. Using such
> abusive language for such a issue is shameful. If you are not interested
> in what is going on, then I suggest remain quite. 
> 
> 
> 
      Mr Nabeel I am intersted in religon more than u think but what I am 
     trying to say is the continous flaming of people on the net and the 
     the silly debate going on is like beating a dead horse.It is a differnt
     thing to disscuss something in a proper manner.And when i say Bull I mean
     the relentless discussion of the same old thing.
            The currnt disscussion on the net is leading no where as it did
     lead no where the last time it was started.ANd next time u start jumping
     to nasty hasty conclusuions I suggest u think twice about it,it is in the 
     best interst of all!!!!!



later..
> 
>                                                                __________
>         "Is Not Allah Sufficient for His man?" :Quran         |  o    o  |
>         Nabeel Ahmad Rana, (LOVE FOR ALL : HATRED FOR NONE)   |    /\    |
From: mirza@sce.carleton.ca (Murad A. Mirza)
Subject: Re: Murad Mirza's reply to Noor's open letter!
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 16:46:36 GMT

nr503637@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Nabeel Ahmad Rana) writes:


>Dear Brothers and Sisters:


>Just see what Mr. Murad Mirza has written in reply to Mr. Nasir Noor's
>open letter. All readers can vary well see the intellectual level of
>this person Murad Mirza. Or maybe Murad is here trying to be joker, in
>the middle of serious debate? 



>> assalam alaikum
>>
>> take it easy guy
>> enjoy life while it is
>> and your favorite "Lanat ulla ul Kazibeen", once more Lanat ulla ul Kazibeen
>> if you want to hear in Punjabi then .......can't say it anymore
>> in German it wud be worse
>> of course Pashto wud top it all
>> it seems you believe this one line wud be more effective in Arabic, but
>> you are wrong dear just ask some Afridi there then you can convey it to
>> me and it will be more effective, guarenteed!!!
>>
>> and i did read all of what you have written!!!
>>
>> khuda hafiz
>> very best regards and good luck
>> darling to none love for all
>>
>> Murad [life is just like a bubble] Mirza.




>Sincerely,





>	
>**      *        *        * * * *    * * * * *  * * * * *  *  
>* *     *       * *       *      *   *          *          *
>*  *    *      *   *      *      *   *          *          *
>*   *   *     *     *     * * * *    * * * *    * * * *    *
>*    *  *    * * * * *    *      *   *          *          *
>*     * *   *         *   *      *   *          *          *
>*      **  *           *  * * * *    * * * * *  * * * * *  * * * * * *
>                                                               __________
>        "Is Not Allah Sufficient for His man?" :Quran         |  o    o  |
>        Nabeel Ahmad Rana, (LOVE FOR ALL : HATRED FOR NONE)   |    /\    |
>        April 15, 1992.                                       |  \____/  |
>                                                              |___smile__|

Dear brothers and sisters in ISLAM,

I did hurt some feelings, therefore, now i am happy.  I am hurt too
since Dr. Nabeel wrote Murad Mirza, I prefer to be addressed as MIRZA
in these matters of jokersprudence.  Serious debate is done with
serious people, and not with serious serious people.

Anyway, like always, since Nabeel enjoyed it and is happy, therefore i am
happy too.  Nabeel, lunch is on me, I hope you get the point (if you don't
then...) of the whole rigmarole.  Life is too short - just pray five times,
say Allah Wahid, pay Zakat, Haj (if affordable), and love HIS beloved
Prophet(Muhammad-SAW) like HE wants you to.

MIRZA, Iblis, and Cheelay
including MIRZA's dear Hakim and CheePalach are doomed you still have
a chance come towards the TRUTH, the WHOLE TRUTH and nothing but the
TRUTH.

Murad [ sometimes prefer to be called ] MIRZA.
Murad [ Intellectuality was Iblis's gift to ] MIRZA

Real Murad [ darling for none love for all ] Mirza.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: qazi@nevada.edu (USMAN QAZI)
Subject: Re: Young and Restless
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 22:04:55 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.191753.10184@topaz.ucq.edu.au> chishtim@topaz.ucq.edu.au writes:
>
>Dear "Pakistani Bulletin Board" users
>
>Assalam Waaleekum

This is wrong. The correct expression is assalaamu alaykum 
not salaam walaikam salaam.
>

>Whenever I read Pakistan Bulletin Board, I find either a
>religous, or a political war in progress.
>
So???

>It made one of Pakistani MBA student, totally ignorant of his
>studies, even though he is the only "cape of good hope" for his parents
>in this world.
>
What exactly are you trying to say, pal?

>Can we make a better use of this facility ?
>
>It is a point to ponder for those, who are dumping all this junk
>on this bulletin board, without thinking about the feelings of other peoples.
>
>I will suggest this "Young and Restless" group to re-direct it's
>energies towards better goals.

It's fine the way it is. If you think you're better than this 
group then tell us why (and we'll take care of you!).
>
>Thank you

For what?

>Muhammad Ali Chishti
>School of Information Sciences
>University of Central Queensland, Australia

Usman
From: shafqat@neuro.duke.edu (Saad Shafqat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Science and Muslims: some thoughts.
Date: 15 Apr 92 01:02:36 GMT
Organization: Neuroscience Program, Duke University Medical Center.



First of all, many thanks to Khalid Shahzad for initiating this thread, 
and to all participants for offering interesting comments.  

The history of science in Islam is rich and famous, but it is easy to overrate
it.  In the first place, the scientific endeavour was mostly concentrated in
mathematics and medicine.  There was also some work in the theory of optics,
but this was only to the extent that it facilitated the study of the eye and
its diseases.  Moreover, the fame of Islam's great physician-scientists had
largely to do with contemporary influence and not with enduring scientific
contributions as most of the medical understanding of the day has long
since been supplanted (except in eccentric vetiges such as modern hikmat).

The real value of the history of science in Islam is purely inspirational.
While the goals of science (discerning the truth) are unaltered, the
methodology and demands of doing science have undergone multiple revolutions
since the hey-day of Al-Qanun f'il Tibb.  The formulas for success in 
science are now essentially Western formulas and, from my limited perspective,
they appear entirely reconciliable with Islam.  

The most crucial requirement for success in science is not Islam but
prosperity.  Scienctific success has come in the absence of Islam but never
in the absence of prosperity.  The recipe for doing good science now has
five ingredients at the minimum: (i) money; (ii) personnel; (iii) library
facilities; (iv) equipment; and (v) academic freedom.  The secret to
generating money is industrialization and the secret to academic freedom
is muslim reawakening and contemplation.  Libraries and equipment will
follow from the money, and the personnel already exist.

Finally, science is science.  It is not Islamic, it is not Christian, nor
Jewish nor Hindu nor Shinto nor what-have-you.  To me the term "Islamic
science" means no more than science done by muslims.  But it is a term
best done away with because it suggests muslim arrogance, as though Islam
has a monopoly on some or all scientific truths.  We are muslims and we
want to do good science.  Our scientific truths are the same as Islamic
truths but we may not always recognize them as such, or recognize them
wrongly.  


Best wishes,

Saad Shafqat.
Physician, Scientist, Muslim.




--
From: azhar@duke.cs.duke.edu (D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Inside Info on DSA
Date: 7 Apr 92 16:18:05 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.

In article <Q=g+RJ#@engin.umich.edu> jamal@caen.engin.umich.edu (Jamal Mubarak) writes:
>In article <702045062@volga.cs.duke.edu> azhar@cs.duke.edu (D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar) writes:
>>	   I have been intimated that WY is fit, and will tour England,
>>Salman [tries to understand cricket inside out] Azhar

>It has been intimated to this net that your tour of Pakistan was a
>rather successful one :-).  Care to elaborate or to quell such
>rumors?
>Jamal [koo ba-koo phail gayee khabr shanasaee ki] Mubarak

	   Cough! Cough! Ahem! Ahem! Ahem! Cough! Sneeze! Aachooo! Ahem!
I was about to elaborate but due to sore throat and nasal congestion,
I shall wait until I feel better. :-)

	   Salman [sareer-khwaN nawa-e-saroosh nahiN hai] Azhar 

-- 
``I will pass you in a small boat trapped by stormy seas, without
saying a word. Perhaps, there is nothing to say, and there is no time
for words. In these situations, words lose their meanings.''
          ----- D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar
From: umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Nasir Ahmed Noor)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: 'Ham agai to garmia bazar dekhna'
Date: 6 Apr 92 20:05:52 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada



Jafry, Honestly, how much do you get per month as "Halwa Fund". 
Comeone, tell us the truth only once in your life time. And also
do you make it your self or get it prepared thru some central
Halwa net work. Please dont hide it. Every body knows that
your letters cannot be produced without full blessing of Halwa
and such procducts....

Happy Halwa eating my friend.....oops, a non muslim can't be
a friend to a muslim, sorry.  By the way who are those people
who feed you and your whole Halwa Army and also the Government
of Pakistan....They are Hajis I guess (Americans that is).

Nasir Ahmed Noor
umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca
From: ag3l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Arun K. Gupta)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Yet more excerpts
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:24:47 GMT
Organization: Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


>From: rags@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Raghavan Jayaraman)
>Subject: Re: Yet more excerpts
>Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 14:17:16 GMT
>
>Let us see! One exhumes the [objective?] excerpts of  someone from an institute>without any stated reason [or is it the magic word "discrimination?"].
>With couple of criticisms of course from Hindus [obviously], the poster
>withdraws nonchalantly. Then suddenly he sees the light on the other side
>and starts addressing both the sides righteously.

My analysis is slightly different. I posted these articles in the hope of
reasonable analysis and criticism. Instead I see: oh, this author lives in
Saudi Arabia, or is in the Aligarh Muslim University, so all he writes is
obviously rubbish.

There, I presented what I thought was a reasonable counter to some of the
arguments in the essays. However, if I wanted to talk to myself, I needn't
have posted all this. I do hope people will have more meaningful things to
say than to be picky about the place of employment of the authors (quite
irrelevant, IMO) and rather pick out the flaws in their arguments, as well
as what may be regarded as truth.

>raghavan

-arun gupta
ag3L@andrew.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: qureshi@redwood (Fawad Qureshi)
Subject: Re: Want me to reply to A. Hussain's "beliefs"?
Organization: Shell Oil
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 15:08:47 GMT

In article <nabeel.702582631@regulus.sce.carleton.ca> nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Nabeel Ghuzlaan) writes:
>
>  "Someone is gonna get hurt before the night is through."



this should either read:
   "somebody's gonna hurt someone before the night is through"
or:
   "somebody's gonna come undone before the night is through"
 
 
-- 
Fawad Qureshi
Shell Oil Company
(713)795-3772 
Internet:  qureshi@shell.com	
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: qs@haithem.cray.com (Qasim M. Sheikh)
Subject: Re: Dr. Akhtar Hammed Khan, Sher aur Ahmek
Reply-To: qs@haithem.cray.com (Qasim M. Sheikh)
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: 8 Apr 92 09:21:26 CDT




It would be very helpfull (for me at least) if Adil could write about
what Dr. Akhtar Hameed Khan did in Orangi and other places.  Also if
it is not too much trouble please post the poem.  

The big question still is what can be done to help Dr. Khan get out
of this trouble.  Would  a letter writting campaign to authorities in Pakistan
or to donor nations to Pakistan help. Can we donate money to the lawyers trying
to fight his case.

I very strongly beleive that industrialization in a poor country with a ton
of illiteracy makes life more miserable for the poor.  One Dr. Khan is a much
more precious asset for Pakistan than all the trained Pakistani scientists in
the west put together are.  Better distribution of wealth is a much more
important goal for Pakistan than industrilization is.  So let us support one
brave soul who is working towards that.

Qasim
From: chishtim@topaz.ucq.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Young and Restless
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:17:53 AET
Organization: University of Central Queensland, Australia


Dear "Pakistani Bulletin Board" users

Assalam Waaleekum

Whenever I read Pakistan Bulletin Board, I find either a
religous, or a political war in progress.

It made one of Pakistani MBA student, totally ignorant of his
studies, even though he is the only "cape of good hope" for his parents
in this world.

Can we make a better use of this facility ?

It is a point to ponder for those, who are dumping all this junk
on this bulletin board, without thinking about the feelings of other peoples.

I will suggest this "Young and Restless" group to re-direct it's
energies towards better goals.

Thank you
Muhammad Ali Chishti
School of Information Sciences
University of Central Queensland, Australia
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Mr. Maudoodi and Minority relations
Date: 12 Apr 1992 13:48:09 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Apr11.010537.26155@prism.poly.edu> ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain) writes:
> [lots of useless stuff deleted]

Instead of going in a hyperbolic way of defining Maudoodi's
position, let's talk straight. Ok

Now would you please enlighten us as to what you think 
was Maudoodi's position vis-a-vis "Minority relations"?

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: khan@ces.cwru.edu (Mansoor Khan)
Subject: WRATH OF KHAN
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 04:16:04 GMT



	I am sick and tired of the garbage on s.c.p.
concerning ahmedi vs. muslim, and burqa vs. no burqa.
Jeffri and Noor-chashm please move your  crap
to soc.religon or your personal emails. 
Since both of you claim to be The Muslim, practice
"Lakum deen o kum valay-ya-deen"

And same goes for Burqa-Posh and non burqaa people. Enough is enough.
Jeffri why dont you buy a burqa for yourself? and may be
try covering your garbage with it.

It has become so boring that.......

Hum hee so ga-ae daastaa'n  "sountay sountay"

mansoor
From: ys3359@thor.albany.edu (Yazmasterj)
Subject: Re: Women and Burqa: Analyzing the recent discussion
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 03:28:17 GMT

In article <IdtSuSy00WAoA1tlQd@andrew.cmu.edu> sohan+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sohan C. Ramakrishna-Pillai) writes:
>Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.pakistan: 8-Apr-92 Re: Women and
>Burqa: Analyz.. Yazmasterj@sarah.albany. (2580)
>
>> There are many cases where the passages of the Quran were
>> 	addressed directly to the Prophet or members of his household
>> 	which were not applied to others.  For example, the Prophet
>> 	was allowed to have nine wives while the limit on all other
>> 	Muslim men is four.  The wives of the Prophet were not allowed
>
>Hmm...cough...cough...
>Actually, it is not clear whether the limit of nine wives is restricted
>to the Prophet. Nor is it clear that the limit is indeed nine. Some
>accounts give the number of the Prophet's wives as nine, some say n
>wives and 12 minus n concubines or some such.

	Sorry, I was unclear.  I meant to say that the Prophet DID
	have as many as nine wives at one time despite the limit of
	four imposed for other Muslim men.

Khudahafiz

Yasmin

**************************************************************************
*                                   *                                    *
*  Yasmin Sohrawardy                *  "Only Nixon can go to China"      *
*                                   *                                    *
*  Internet:  ys3359@csc.albany.edu *            - Ancient Vulcan        *
*                                   *              Proverb               *
**************************************************************************
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Nabeel Ghuzlaan)
Subject: Re: My beliefs; I
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 04:40:51 GMT

ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain) writes:


> 
>   Here are my beliefs regarding Jesus.

>   1. Jesus was NOT born without father.

   Why was he called by his mother's name in Koran or is Mary his father?
Verse 19:20-21:
   'She said: "How shall I have a son seeing that no man has touched me and
I am not unchaste? He said: "So: Thy Lord saith: ``That is easy for Me, and
appoint him as a Sign unto men and Mercy from Us. It is a matter decreed.'''

>   2. Jesus had no power to give life to dead( birds or humans).
>  

   Verse 5:110: "... Thou makest out of clay a figure of a bird by My leave
and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave. And thou
healest those born blind and the lepers by My leave. And behold! Thou
bringest forth the dead by My leave. ... "

>   3. He was not raised to heaven BEFORE death.

   He was raised as a dead body!!!!!!????????

>   4. As Promised Masiah said 'You, your children and their children
>     keep on waiting and he will never come back from AASMAAN.'

   ABBA: "You were always sure of yourself!" Ever cared to look in Muslim's
or Bukhari's Sahihs?

>   5. There is not a SINGLE verse of Quran that contradicts my 
>      belief #1.

   There is not a SINGLE verse, true, there are MANY verses to do it!

>   6. More than 30 verses of Quran support my belief #3.

   Can you refer me to only 29 of them?

>