From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Annoying, cloying "wann-be"s
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:52:14 GMT
Organization: n.o.y.b

In article <1211@abb-sc.abb-sc.COM> ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley) writes:
>
>
>	Looks like I stepped on some toes. Sorry for the offense but the 
>opinions expressed are hard won. Read on.....
<deleted>
>	As to the fools I am currently watching, I expect they will find 
>something else to preoccupy their limited minds in time. None of them have 
>any idea what the religion is (well, the one or two who asked me to teach them 
>might, but they lost intrest when I didn't instantly make them into 
>sorcerer/esses). In the mean time, they make us look dumb. Yes, I know the 
>TV evangelists give us much worse publicity in an even larger forum, but 
>convincing someone that I'm not an agent of Satan is easier than convincing 
>them that I'm not a loser/geek who lives in a pubescent sci-fi fandom based 
>fantasy world.
>
I agree with you about the jerks. They are what the word nerd *used* to
refer to, someone who was incompetant at *everything*. On the other hand, I 
live an awful lot in an sf fandom that is neither pubescent nor a fantasy
world.
<snip>
>them are bad. We come in all colors.
That's what I was saying.
>
>	Unfortunately, there are plenty of hack writers, Pagan or otherwise, 
Of course.Sturgeon's Law (90% of *every*thing is crud.)

>writing if they read it. They like the neat new zap guns and sorceresses with 
>unrealistic big tits on the cover of a cheap paperback rag. Sexpoitation is 
>RAMPANT in sci-fi/fantasy fandom! So instead of putting their adolescent 

I've spoken to artists about this. They tell me that the publishers tell them
to do it, and others tell me that when they draw realistically, stuff in the
huckster room doesn't sell as much. At least in (adjective alert) some (end 
adjective) cases, sales are proportional to breast size, and, for them, it
comes down to economics. I do have hopes, however. Not *everyone* tries to
draw like Frazetta anymore.
<snip>
>
>>Finally, minor flame: Fen do *NOT* refer to sf as sci-fi (rhymes with Skippy).
>>We've forgiven Forry Ackerman for inventing that odious phrase, but normally
>>it's used by bad & ignorant movie reviewers who think of Godzilla when they
>>think of SF. Using sci-fi with fans (and there are a bunch here) get *real*
>>irritated with the phrase. You might as well walk into downtown San Francisco
>>and ask people in the street about 'Frisco - it's a great thing to do to get 
>>ignored.
>
>	Hmm, a bit defensive? Yes, I know you have a term for sci-fi/fantasy 
>fans that you'd like me to use, but I have been lectured on the proper thing 
>to call people of this genre by many people and EVERYBODY HAS A DIFFERENT 
>NAME FOR IT. I'll stick to one that everyone can recognise, instead of 
>subscribing to the name of the moment club, okay? Sorry if it grates, but I 
>too have had contact with this group for years and I won't play the name-game 
>anymore. Besides, who would recognise *any* one of the names that sci-fi fans 
>call themselves unless they had contact with them? Gotta speak the common 
>language here, not everyone has been to a con (thank the Goddess)!

Name game? I've been in fandom a while, and sf is *always* acceptable, and
skiffy has never been. What other names have you heard? Speculative fiction,
as another de-acronym for sf? Still is sf.

	mark