From: mvishnu@morse.uwaterloo.ca (m vishnu)
Subject: Re: EVR - Part II (Atheism)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 17:40:43 GMT

In article <16AUG199209302886@ctrvx2.vanderbilt.edu> shivakl@ctrvx2.vanderbilt.edu (LAKSHMANAN SHIVAKUMAR) writes:
>In one of his articles on EVR Mr.Vishnu mentions EVR
>advocating Atheism because Lord Krishna preached casteism
>in the  Bhagavad Gita.
>
>If the above is true, then EVR ideally fits the description
>of a short sighted person, who due to his inability to find
>the basic cause of the problem (casteism) uses Religion as
>a scapegoat.  KRISHNA NEVER PREACHED CASTEISM AS IT IS BEING
>FOLLOWED TODAY.  The vedas divided people on the basis of the
                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>work that was done by them and preached a slightly different
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>life style for each of those divisions.  We sure should
>expect the life of a warrior to be different from that of a
>scholar or a business man and this is what the vedas did.

I beg to differ.
What makes you think that the word "varna" used in tha Bhagavad Gita is
based on one's work/gunas/etc and not on one's birth ?  In fact, 
the Bhagavad Gita is pretty clear about the fact that it is talking 
about a caste system based on one's birth.  For example, 
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
look closely at the following verses:

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Chapter I:41
Because of the ascendancy of lawlessness, Krishna,
The family women are corrupted;
When women are corrupted, O Clansman of Vrisni (Krishna).
The intermixture of caste is born.

Chapter I:42
Intermixture of caste leads to hell
For the family destroyers and for the family too;
The ancestors of these indeed fall
Deprived of (Vedic) rites of riceball(pinda) and water;
---------------------------------------------------------------------

To me at least, from these verses, it is clear that BG is talking about
a caste system based exclusively on one's birth as that found in the 
present day India.


>NEITHER KRISHNA NOR THE VEDAS PREACHED UNTOUCHABILITY.  These

Have you read the Purusha-suktha or Manu's code ?  (FYI Even the BG uses
the word candala)

>are evils underlying the present society and religion cannot
>be blamed for these.

The varna-ashrama-dharma (or sanaadhana dharma as some hard-core Hindu's
prefer to call it) is directly responsible to present state of affairs
of India.  Casteism and Fatalistic outlook to life are the
main causes of failure of India in almost any field (including Olympics
at Barcelona, where India came out with 0 medals, although it sent one of
the largest team).  These two ideas are central to the varna-ashrama dharma
which violently exterminated rational schools of thought such as Buddhism 
from India, and brought India to its dark age. The sad truth is that this
dark age is continueing to exist to the present day.

>
>To conclude, EVR appears to advise the cutting of of the head to
>cure headache.  (I am sure he must have made a great doctor!!).

No he does not.  He wants to eliminate two virii (casteism and fatalism)
in the psyche of the Indian people that is implanted by the
varna-ashrama dharma. 

The history has witnessed the immense damage these virii has caused to Indians
in general.  These viri are only beneficial to a small proportion of India's
population, the descendends of Vedic ritual performers commonly called the
Bramins. These Vedic rituals involves the slaughter of cows, horses and
even human beings (purusha-medha yagas) in the thousands.

>
>Regards,
>Shivakumar

Meenan Vishnu
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