HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: who pays for USENET
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:41:39 GMT
Organization: negligable

In article <1992Sep28.135349.27439@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com> c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
>In article <294@ulogic.UUCP> hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman) writes:
>>Please see my article in a parallel branch of this thread for my
>>response about your idea of separate budgets.  In brief: all budgets
>>are a subset of the main budget from which all money flows.  It's
>>all tied together and money spent on personnel is money not spent
>>getting better food in the cafeteria (or verse-visa).
>
>In other words, if I trade in my Sparc 2 for a Radio Shack TRS-80 (OBHack:
>create X server for TRS-80), I'll get a pay raise?

In some companies, yes.  Our company has frequently had to make decisions
between new employees vs. new equipment.  Those people we didn't hire
aren't making the money that we didn't pay them because we bought a SUN
workstation.....  In other companies the people up top "from whom all
money flows" will just pocket the difference as an increase in profit.
It's not my fault if you work for a company like that :)

>Sure, all money comes from 'above'. But saving money in one area does not
>necessarily mean that the money will appear in a different area, i.e.

I have not been saying that if you don't spend it in place X it must show
up in place Y, I (and others have been saying) if you spend it in place
X you do not have the option to spend it in place Y.  Surely this is clear
enough now that you don't have any grip left to play silly semantic games
anymore?



		-Richard Hartman
		hartman@uLogic.COM

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Disco isn't dead...			...it's just in witness protection!
From: shibumi@net.bio.net
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: BIONET/BIOSCI Checkgroups message
Date: 1 Oct 92 07:00:04 GMT
Reply-To: shibumi@GENBANK.BIO.NET
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Natl. Computing Resource for Mol. Biology

What follows is input for a checkgroups message for the BIOSCI/BIONET
heirarchy.  If you are running netnews 2.11, you should receive mail
notification of a checkgroups message.  To issue a checkgroups message
on your system, follow the guidelines stated in Gene Spafford's
monthly message on this subject.

If you have any questions, or are having problems with your
BIONET/BIOSCI feed, please contact me at the above address or at
(415) 962-7300.

Kenton A. Hoover
GenBank

--- BIONET groups follow ---
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: maradona@nevada.edu (RODRIGO PERES CRICHTON)
Subject: Re: MAPS! (was Re: Clinton/Gore organization is on the net)
Keywords: Usenet network maps location?
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 21:27:48 GMT

Newsgroups: news.admin
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: [SOC] ABOUT THE BEATING DEATH OF MR. LUYEN PHAN NGUYEN
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 00:55:19 GMT

In article <20836@drutx.ATT.COM> nguyen@drutx.ATT.COM (Christopher Chu) writes:
>Also, for your information, this socially related article
>is being forwarded to 54 USENET soc.culture.* newsgroups in order to
>socialize this event to interested readers anywhere in world.

Sigh.
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
From: mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: Ill-effects of a posting greater than 64k
Date: 27 Sep 92 12:47:54 GMT
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

barr@pop.psu.edu (David Barr) writes:
> In article <1992Sep26.151349.1962@psg.com> randy@psg.com (Randy Bush) writes:
> >Fix the broken software.  Adhere to and enforce standards.
> 
> Okay, I propose we make 64K the standard.

Seconded.


mathew
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us (Marc Unangst)
Subject: Re: who pays for USENET
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 17:09:59 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The Programmer's Pit Stop, Ann Arbor MI

In article <1992Sep26.175907.3013@mtek.com> bud@mtek.com writes:
>Excuse me, Marc, but you seem to be operating under some new-age
>illusion that suggests employees have an inherent primacy in the
>food-chain of organizational funding.

I think you misunderstand what I said.  Let me clarify:

Suppose your company has two boxes to put money in.  One of them is
labelled "bud@mtek.com's salary".  The other is labelled "Everything
else".  Now, money that they put in the "Everything else" box cannot
also be in the "bud@mtek.com's salary" box.  This is what I meant when
I said, "Money that the company uses for restrooms, etc. (everything
except paying the employee's salary) is money that they cannot pay
you."

-- 
Marc Unangst                | "There are two ways to solve this problem:
mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us   | the hard way, and the easy way.  Let's start
                            | with the hard way."
                            |   - W. Scheider, from a Physics lecture
From: gelly@persoft.com (Mitch Gelly)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: who pays for USENET
Keywords: peche kriek framboise
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:30:28 GMT
Organization: Persoft, Inc.

In article <1992Sep28.134442.4772@r-node.gts.org> marc@r-node.gts.org (Marc Fournier - Sys Admin) writes:
>In article <1a2chbINN7fq@nigel.msen.com> emv@msen.com (Edward Vielmetti) writes:
>>Who pays for USENET?  I pay for USENET.
>>
>>Every month I get a bill in the mail it says
>>
>>	USENET		$4,000,000,000.00
>
>	What do you get for this????  Is this a joke, or totally 
>serious??

No he's joking. He only pays about 1.5 billion out of that figure, *I* pay
the other 2.5 billion. You feel like chipping in?

Mitch



-- 
- gelly@persoft.com ---------------------------------------------------------
     ... upon being captured or killed, my employers will disavow any 
         knowledge of me or my posts ...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.software.b,news.software.nntp
From: thole@cs.rulimburg.nl (Johan Thole)
Subject: HELP! Should I use nntp?
Organization: University of Limburg
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 10:23:55 GMT

Help,

I really need some info on the following subject yesterday!

At the moment we are connected to our newsfeed via a serial line. We
receive incoming messages via email in compressed batches. This has worked
fine for us.

However, in the near future we are going to be connected to the internet
directly. Someone suggested me to use NNTP for the transmission of articles
as soon as we are on the internet.

General info: We have installed c-news on our server. The news-directories
	      are NFS-mounted on the clients. Our users read their news
	      with 'rn' and 'nn'.

Because I don't know very much about NNTP, I have the following questions:

1) What are the main advantages of a NNTP-feed above an email-feed? What
    are the disadvantages?

2) Is NNTP reliable?

3) I am told that we can read news from our news-feed directly using NNTP
    without storing the articles locally. Is this true? Does this mean that
    we don't need our news-server anymore?

4) Does anyone know where to get good documentation on NNTP?

5) Are there other recommended strategies (besides email and NNTP)
    which we could/should use to send and receive news? What about using
    uux?

Any help (preferably email) will be highly appreciated!

Thanks in advance,

Johan Thole.

P.S. of course I will summarize.
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Johan Thole (thole@cs.rulimburg.nl) | The wrong side of a door is
University of Limburg               | where the dog is.
Dept. of computer science           | #include <std/disclaimer.h>
From: kdq@quest.UUCP (Kevin D. Quitt)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Active file
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 92 12:02:51 PDT
Reply-To: srhqla!quest!kdq
Organization: Job quest  (805) 251-8210,  So Cal: (800) 400-8210

Is someone willing to send me a (hopefully authoritative) active file?
Please email first, I'm really only after one copy 8-)  Thanks.


 _
Kevin D. Quitt                                 Job Quest (805) 251-8210
srhqla!quest!kdq                               Learn How to Get a Job in SoCal

                96.37% of all statistics are made up.
Newsgroups: news.admin,rec.video.satellite,misc.forsale.computers,biz.comp.services
From: randy@chinet.chi.il.us (Randy Suess)
Subject: Re: Usenet News via Satellite
Keywords: Usenet Satellite 9600bps
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 22:19:50 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.041839.28539@anomaly.sbs.risc.net> kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net (Michael P. Deignan) writes:
>That, coupled with the high cost of initial hardware investment, makes this
>a questionable investment, in my opinion.

	Not sure how you figuer that.  My costs for a full feed (at 1500 cps 
	thruput) to the same city is over $200 per month.  Sure seems it will 
	pay for itself real quick.  And this is for a lot less than 40 megs 
	per day.

-- 
	I am created Shiva the Destroyer; Death, the shatterer of worlds!
	Who is this dog meat who stands before me now?
	That's the biz, sweetheart.
Randy Suess					 randy@chinet.chi.il.us
From: gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: Fax services available through Internet
Date: 28 Sep 92 01:15:57 GMT
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.

In article <Bv92qG.G3I@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> richter@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (C. Richter) writes:
>our list.  If there were free local fax services in places like London, 
>New York, Washington, Geneva, Delhi, etc., then we would be able to 
>cover most of our non-Internet members.

Only countries with free local calls will reasonably offer such a service
(until their national regulatory bodies catch you and close you down).

Local calls in London are too dear to allow anyone to run such a service,
unfortunately, else I'd probably be doing it myself.

Perhaps someone with a midnight line though in the UK might consider an
automated server to use any spare time in their 'free' slot between
midnight and 6am?  (I don't know anyone who can afford the un-metered
"midnight line" service though, sorry...)

G
-- 
Xref: sparky news.admin:7770 rec.video.satellite:5161 misc.forsale.computers:35020 biz.comp.services:235
From: munroe@dmc.com (Dick Munroe)
Newsgroups: news.admin,rec.video.satellite,misc.forsale.computers,biz.comp.services
Subject: Re: Usenet News via Satellite
Date: 27 Sep 92 08:20:14 EDT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Doyle, Munroe Consultants, Inc., Hudson, MA

In article <1992Sep28.025715.9972@anomaly.sbs.risc.net>, kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net (Michael P. Deignan) writes:
> len@netsys.netsys.com (Len Rose) writes:
> 
>> The system consists of a 45 cm dish,small receiver, and modem....
> .....
>> will be increasing the price to 2100.00 within 30 days. 
> 
> Sounds awfully expensive for what appears to be a KU-band system. Similar
> setups have been running about $500 (less the "modem").
> 
> MD
> -- 
> --  Michael P. Deignan                      / Sex is hereditary. If your 
> --  Domain: mpd@anomaly.sbs.com            /  parents never had it, chances 
> --    UUCP: ...!uunet!rayssd!anomaly!mpd  /   are you won't either...
> -- Telebit: +1 401 455 0347              /

On the other hand, look at it from a capital investment standpoint. 
DMConnection provides news feeds for which we pay.  Purchasing this dish reduces
our inbound costs to $0.00 (barring maintanance), so EVENTUALLY we make money. 
Our outbound traffic is a small fraction of our inbound traffic, so for us our
win is BIG.  The bottom line: We will be buying one (if necessary, porting the
software to run on VMS).
-- 
Dick Munroe				Internet: munroe@dmc.com
Doyle Munroe Consultants, Inc.		UUCP: ...uunet!thehulk!munroe
267 Cox St.				Office: (508) 568-1618
Hudson, Ma.				FAX: (508) 562-1133

GET CONNECTED!!! Send mail to info@dmc.com to find out about DMConnection.
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: scs@adam.mit.edu (Steve Summit)
Subject: Re: Ill-effects of a posting greater than 64k
Organization: none, at the moment
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:02:50 GMT

In article <RoFRRB20w165w@mantis.co.uk>, mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) writes:
> randy@psg.com (Randy Bush) writes:
>> mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) writes:
>>> It causes UUCP systems using slow modems on noisy lines to waste ...
>>            ^ broken
> 
> No, not broken.  *All* UUCP systems on bad lines will handle large postings
> less well than they handle small ones...
> You could devise some system which automatically split up big articles and
> put them together at the far end, but it wouldn't be UUCP.

Nonsense.  One could (and should) devise such a system, but
claiming that "it wouldn't be UUCP" is meaningless.  Usenet news
isn't UUCP, either; it merely uses UUCP as a transport mechanism.
Do news batching algorithms cease to be UUCP because the files
being Copied Unix-to-Unix aren't single, simple messages?  An
automatic chunking algorithm for large messages would be exactly
analogous to the batching algorithms used for small ones.

>> If one limited the world to the lowest common denominator of broken tools,
>> we would still be using stone wheels.
> 
> If you're saying that everyone using UUCP should just fuck off and disconnect
> from the net, might I ask who the hell you think you are?

I can't speak for Randy, but I'm just saying that people
composing news articles can't be asked to make allowances for
deficient pieces of news software which they might not even know
about.  (I shouldn't state this this way; someone will leap in
and bring up the somewhat-related issue of dropping articles with
nonconforming Date: lines for the umpteenth time.)

					Steve Summit
					scs@adam.mit.edu
From: dawson@vdbsan (Willard Dawson)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.marching vs rec.arts.marching
Date: 4 Oct 92 15:19:11 GMT
Organization: BellSouth Information Networks, Inc.

gordons@CS.ColoState.EDU (vahl scott gordon) writes:

>I don't have a problem with the length.  My problem was whether
>*marching* is an art.  I agree that drumcorps is an art, and I agree that
>drumcorps is a type of marching, but it doesn't logically follow that
>marching is an art (although SOME types are).  I never saw a response to
>this argument.

>Thus, at this time, I understand:   rec.marching.drumcorps
>                                 or rec.arts.drumcorps

>         but I don't understand:    rec.arts.marching

Aye.  This has been nagging me a bit as well.  But, I'm forced to think
the alternative is something like:

    rec.arts.bands.blues
    rec.arts.bands.blues.and.jazz
    rec.arts.bands.blues.but.not.jazz
    rec.arts.bands.blues.big
    rec.arts.bands.blues.inbetween
    rec.arts.bands.blues.misc
    rec.arts.bands.blues.small
    rec.arts.bands.concert
    rec.arts.bands.concert.college
    rec.arts.bands.concert.community
    rec.arts.bands.concert.hs
    rec.arts.bands.concert.misc
    rec.arts.bands.jazz
    rec.arts.bands.jazz.and.blues
    rec.arts.bands.jazz.but.not.blues
    rec.arts.bands.jazz.big
    rec.arts.bands.jazz.inbetween
    rec.arts.bands.jazz.misc
    rec.arts.bands.jazz.small
    rec.arts.bands.marching
    rec.arts.bands.marching.college
    rec.arts.bands.marching.community
    rec.arts.bands.marching.hs
    rec.arts.bands.marching.drumcorps
    rec.arts.bands.misc
    rec.arts.bands.rockandroll
        ad nauseum...

Really, that's a bit carried away, but you get the ideas, surely?  At the
risk of pissing on your (collective) parade, the drum corps community has
long had a fallacious idea that they were doing something significantly
different from the band crowd.  That's just plain wrong.  Why should we
continue to foster this misconception?  Drum and bugle corps are, in the
simplest of analyses, just one of many kinds of marching band, which are
in turn a flavor of military musical performing group.  To what degree
they are military is another matter, best left for later discussion...

-- 
Willard Dawson, BellSouth Advanced Networks, 1100 Johnson Ferry Road, Ste. 880
Atlanta, GA  30342, Voice: +1 404 303 2343, UUCP: gatech!vdbsan!dawson
Internet -> X.400:  /G=W/S=DAWSON/O=BSAN/ADMD=BELLSOUTH/C=US/@sprint.com
Percent hack:  dawson%vdbsan@gatech.edu   ::    Standard disclaimer applies.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: cdash@moet.cs.colorado.edu (Charles Shub)
Subject: Re: CFD for *.apathy newsgroups
Organization: University of Colorado at Colorado Springs
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 19:33:43 GMT

=>  FURRJK@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU (Joel Furr) writes:
=>  
=>  I am issuing a CFD for a series of *.apathy newsgroups, as follows:
=>  
=>  comp.apathy -- are computers apathetic?  discussion of the so-called
=>                 A.I.  (Apathetic Intelligence), etc.
=>  misc.apathy -- apathy in general
=>  rec.apathy -- tips from apathy fans, apathy how-to's, apathy competitions...
=>  sci.apathy -- the scientific study of apathy as a phenomenon
=>  soc.apathy -- discussions of apathetics in society, apathetic organizations,
=>                 possibly a place for apathetics to make social contacts, etc.
=>  talk.apathy  -- discussions of apathy, apathetic talk, politics of apathy
=>  
=>  Please comment on these proposed newsgroups and on any others you think
=>  might have merit: news.groups.apathy? rec.arts.startrek.apathy? etc. etc.

hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman) responds:
=>  I would have suggested this a long time ago, but I never got around
=>  to it.  Actually my original propsal would have been for
=>  	talk.apathy
=>  	talk.procrastination
=>  
=>  It looks like you've put a lot more thought into your proposal....

my housemate and i have discussed this at length, and i am abosolutely
100% completely and utterly ambivalent on this topic.  My housemate
completely and utterly disagrees with my stance.
-- 

charlie shub  cdash@cs.Colorado.EDU       -or-         (719) 593-3492     
on leave at the University of Iowa  cdash@cs.uiowa.edu (319) 335-0739
Organization: Senior, Civil Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: news.groups
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 23:01:25 -0400 
From: David James Foremsky <df1y+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.marching
	<BvEsJC.Io8@csn.org>

On 30-Sep-92 in Re: RFD: rec.arts.marching   
user Phil Earnhardt@teal.csn. writes:
>be interested in my modifying the RFD to be for:
> 
>rec.arts.marching.drumcorps and
>rec.arts.marching.misc

I agree with Phil that the name should include "arts".

At least it's better than the proposal that the group fall under the
"sports" hierarchy. (DCI would love it, though . . .)

deej
From: andreas@awstar.rus.uni-stuttgart.de (Andreas Wierse)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 3rd RFD: comp.sys.sgi reorganization
Date: 27 Sep 92 18:20:31 GMT
Organization: Visualization Group Comp.Center (RUS) U of Stuttgart, FRG

In article <Bv4xv0.5wG@uunet.uu.net> wicks@dcdsv0.fnal.gov (Matthew Wicks) writes:
>Chuck
>Kennedy, the administrator of info-iris, prefers proposal 1 as he would like
>to make sure that people using the mailing list also have their postings
>go to news. I prefer proposal 2, because I am afraid that comp.sys.sgi.misc
>will end up being equivalent to the current comp.sys.sgi, and it will be
>more difficult to use the .misc group. Also, the discussion of an item that
>started in .graphics for example, would end up in .misc because someone
>replied to info-iris.

I would prefer proposal 2 too, since I suppose that .misc will see lots
of articles that belong to one of the other groups. I don't know how
many articles info-iris would bring into the sgi newsgroups but if it's
too much, the reason for the splitting of the group would be reproduced
(.misc could grow too large)
Maybe that a biweekly article in the info-iris mailing list that
explains where postings should be sent to could avoid that articles are
thought to be posted to the news group but actually only appear in the
mailing list.
We should try to keep the new news groups as straight as possible.

--
 Andreas Wierse              | Institute for Computerapplications II
                             | Dep. Computersimulation and Visualization
 wierse@rus.uni-stuttgart.de | Computer Center University of Stuttgart
 Tel.: ++49-711-685-5796     | Allmandring 30
 Fax:  ++49-711-682357       | D-7000 Stuttgart 80     Germany

-- 
 Andreas Wierse              | Institute for Computerapplications II
                             | Dep. Computersimulation and Visualization
 wierse@rus.uni-stuttgart.de | Computer Center University of Stuttgart
 Tel.: ++49-711-685-5796     | Allmandring 30
From: pae@teal.csn.org (Phil Earnhardt)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.marching
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:50:00 GMT
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.

In article <1992Sep30.143622.43472@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> huy@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:

>I just wanted to add my two cents here.  I agree with Michael.  Why should
>arts be part of the name?

You are right; arts does not *have* to be part of the name. For that matter,
rec doesn't have to be part of it, either.

If we were playing in our own sandbox, we could call it anything we like.  We
could just call it "drumcorps" and be done with it. However, since we're
setting up a USENET group, we should go by the guidelines, official and
otherwise that exist for the placement of groups.

One of the rules is that, whenever possible, new groups should fit under a
hierarchy that already exists. rec.arts is a pretty good match for drum corps,
etc. -- "The sport of the Arts," according to DCI.

>I know some people have expressed concern about the length of the name

What exactly are those concerns about the length of the name? 

>and have wanted to keep drumcorps out of the name.  I strongly believe that
>drumcorps should be part of the name.  I only recently discovered the news
>system here, and if drumcorps had not been part of alt.drumcorps, I wouldn't
>have found that newsgroup.

You might have found it if you subscribed to news.announce.newusers...

On the other hand, I'm not really disagreeing with your claim. Would you
be interested in my modifying the RFD to be for:

rec.arts.marching.drumcorps and
rec.arts.marching.misc

>Therefore, I believe that that Michael's suggestion, rec.marching.drumcorps,
>is a good one.  The name is short, to the point, and includes the word
>drumcorps.

...it just doesn't fit the USENET intention of putting names in a hierarchy.

Please let us know what concern you (and others) have with ".arts" being part
of the name.

>J.S.  

--phil
From: jeffp@uts.amdahl.com (Jeff Powell)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.sport.fencing
Keywords: fencing, foil, epee, sabre
Date: 7 Oct 92 04:28:12 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

Yes, there is some ongoing discussion (lost in the huge flow of other stuff)
about starting a fencing newsgroup.  I haven't seen a "no" expressed anywhere,
but there has been some concern about the name.  Some folks would prefer
rec.sport.sword to rec.sport.fencing since it might be perceived to include
a bigger base of sports and allow discussions broader than just foil, sabre,
and epee related stuff... any sports involving swords might come up and be 
welcome.  I think someone even mentioned theatre combat and SCA type sword
bashing.

I'm all for it - and let's get the broadest possible audience we can. I'm 
not particularly concerned about the name either -- if it's like the rest of 
the net, it will either wither and die from lack of use (in which case the 
name doesn't matter) or undergo a group re-org every 12 to 18 months (in 
which case the name still doesn't matter).  :-)


-- 
     Jeff Powell     |      Amdahl Corporation       |   I don't speak for
jeffp@uts.amdahl.com | 1250 East Arques Ave  M/S 316 | Amdahl.  I'm lucky if
   (408) 746-6259    |   Sunnyvale,  CA 94088-3470   |  I speak for myself!