From: dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552)
Subject: Re: Mensa (was Re: Kinesiology - how I heard about it)
Organization: just me
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 17:40:57 GMT
Followup-To: sci.skeptic

In article <=7!n#8-.payner@netcom.com> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.195306.26252@srg.srg.af.mil> dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552) writes:
>
>[...]
> 
>>Some of us had very different experiences, whether or not we were tested.
>>Sometimes, a group like Mensa can help people adjust to the "real world".
>>Sometimes an IQ test, which was used to single someone out as different,
>>can provide them access to others who have had the same experiences.
>
>So you are saying that the reason for IQ tests is to single out -them-,
>the <shudder> different ones?

They are used for this purpose in many jurisdictions, such as the one I
grew up in.  And yes, in the eyes of a lot of people my age, I became one
of "them", by virtue of the fuss this caused.

>
>If you need a test to do this, then I suspect you will do poorly on any
>IQ test. Some things are evident by simple observation.

Yes, but organizations like school boards need some method of singling 
people out, of categorizing them.  In the '60's, if you tested low, you 
went to a special education program, and earned a reputation of being
very different, in a bad way.  If you tested out very high, they would
usually single you out to the teachers, causing them to treat you noticably
differently, but *not* remove you from your age group - this was deemed to
be bad.  You then also become different, and kids love to pick on differences.
> 
>>I find your comments very sad and narrow-minded.  I have however seen it
>>many times while growing up, usually just before someone took a swing at
>>me for being different.
>
>This does not necessarily follow from the little information that you have
>provided. Many kids deserve what they get, many do not. This gaining of
>experience is part of growing up. 

I gather then that you have never been beaten up for being an "egghead" or
a "bookworm".  I have, but I guess I may have deserved it, huh?  Thanks.
Whatever else I learned as a kid, it is that someone who is lighter and
shorter has no place being obnoxious, so I was very quiet and inoffensive.
But who knows, maybe they just *told* me they were beating me up for being
different.

As to the little information, I assume that people do not want a life history
to justify one statement.
> 
>>It is good to know that those who have problems adjusting to life because
>>they are highly intelligent should have no place to get together to talk
>>things over.  Thank you for that insight.  
>
>I assume that the "no place" is a type, and that you meant "a place".
>And you assume that all intelligent people have difficulty "adjusting to
>life", and that this is MENSA's purpose. I really do not thing that either
>your assumption or conclusion are correct.

You assume that *none* do, as much as I assume that all do.  In reality, 
*some* people have trouble adjusting, and could use a group to find others
in the same situation.  I propose that this is one function of MENSA, and 
that it is useful.  I do *not* subscribe to either of the assumptions or
conclusions you misrepresent above.  And yes, I took your postion to mean
that you have no sympathy for people who are the victims of actions based
on what other people believe them to be.  Look at the reaction to this
thread - there are definite stereotypes about "high-IQ" people.

So...Perhaps MENSA is not just an organization of self-centered, arrogant
dweebs.  Perhaps *some* of the people involved find it useful to meet others
like themselves.  Is that so terrible?
> 
>>		David Pipes
>>who does not belong to Mensa
>>robear@digex.com
>
>Rich
>
>payner@netcom.com

		David Pipes
I *hate* those tests...
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,talk.origins