HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ejk@coral.JPL.NASA.gov (Elya Kapelyan)
Subject: Re: Zachary Baumel
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, NASA/Caltech
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:44:52 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.015732.4051@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, friedenb@egr.msu.edu ( Gedaliah Friedenberg ) writes:
|> 
|> Does anyone know the status of Zachary Baumel?  His tank was ambushed
|> and he was captured by the Lebanese (I think?) approximately 12 years
|> ago.  

	Zack Baumel is a close friend of a Rabbi that used to work at Cornell
U. (in lovely Ithaca, NY).  If I remember correctly he was captured c. 1983.
   
|> Zack and a few other Israeli soldiers were known to be alive a few
|> years ago because (contrary to international law) they were put in a
|> miliraty parade in shackles amd blindfolds.
|> 
|> Zack holds (held?) American citizenship.

	Yep.  I believe that his parents still live in Brooklyn.  (If I'm
wrong, I'm sure that someone will correct me.)
 
|> It aggrevates me that the world press is so greatful that _all_ of the
|> western hostages have been released from the Arab countries which held
|> them.  But, since Zack is "western" as well, he seems to be
|> overlooked.  Especially since he has been held captive for much longer
|> than the other hostages who were thankfully released in the last year.

	Yes, Zack is a "Western" hostage, but unfortunately not _that_ Western.
 
|> I do not feel that because Zack was fighting for the Israeli army that
|> this gives the US the right to abandon one of its citizens.  

	Yes, but unfortunately that is exactly what the US is doing.
 
|> I was going through a box of High School stuff and found a button with
|> his pictures and the acronym POW on it.  I made me remember how
|> disgracefully this country can treat it's citizens.
|> 
|> 
|> Gedaliah Friedenberg
|> -=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
|> -=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science
|> -=-Michigan State University

	Elya
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Re: Radio Host Fired After Jewish Prote
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 12:56:38 GMT

In article <tqmm=lm.analyst@netcom.com>, analyst@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
> 
> I see Yigal Arens public posts have become just as offensive as some
> of his recent emails to me. He's now on my kill list, right next to
> mutlu and the Neo-Nazis.
> 

OK. 
But, why you suppose that we have to know who is in your kill list and 
who is not?
You do not have the obligation of readinig anything, that is your privilige.
But, why the advertisement?
This is like the list of people who has decided not to answer to ARF. 
Do not answer or put him in your kill file, but that is YOUR personal 
desicion. Who is or is not in anyone kill file has nothing to do with 
the politics in the Middle East.
By the way: Are you going to put me on your kill file, was I already there?



> -- 
> David Sternlight        David Sternlight Inc.        email:analyst@netcom.COM

AAP
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Zachary Baumel
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 02:42:54 GMT

In article <22001@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
##
## It aggrevates me that the world press is so greatful that _all_ of the
## western hostages have been released from the Arab countries which held
## them.  But, since Zack is "western" as well, he seems to be
## overlooked.  Especially since he has been held captive for much longer
## than the other hostages who were thankfully released in the last year.
#
#Has it occurred to you that some people might consider Mr. Baumel a
#prisoner of war, and not a hostage?

What does it matter? Can't the Hizebolla even say if the Israeli POW's
are alive or not? Not only do I find this inhuman, I fail to understand
what they gain from this, except for some flexibility in negotiations. In
addition, the refusal to return the bodies of Israeli soldiers is
simply barbarism.

-Danny Keren.
From: phd21@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A. Jaber)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Anwar Mohammad and Fuad Ajami
Date: 23 Jul 92 09:28:40 GMT
Reply-To: phd21@seq1.kl.ac.uk (A. Jaber)
Organization: University of Keele, England


>From: karr@ukc.ac.uk (K.A.R.Razzooqi)
>           
>           I dont know Mr.Jaber why you have all this HATE for Kuwaiti people.
>           From all your letters I felt that you have something against us.
>           The only reason that I can find is for what happend to your hero
>           Saddam(the thug).
>
>            We did not INVADE an Arab country.
>            We did not KILL,RAPE an Arab.
>            We did not FILL people minds with old dead ideas (BA'ATHISM,etc).
>            We did not support the fighting parties in LEBANON.
>            We did not bring STUPID WARS on the arab world,Which costed a lot
>            of young peoples lifes and brought suffering to all of us.  
>            We did not give PALESTINE away.
>            (PALESTINE is still in our hearts)
>            So clean your heart Mr Jaber of all this hate.
>            And I think if all of us in the Arab world stoped the hate we
>            have we will be able to solve all our problems.
> 
>             I BELIEVE IT WILL HAPPEN ..ONE DAY..

	
	Mr Razzoqi Salam:

	You chose to enter this discussion by your choice. The talk was
	not about any of the above issue you have raised. 

	The Argument was Anwar Mohammad a Shia Kuwaiti by his own
	confession admiring the Persian Fuad Ajami ( Read the the New
	Republic of May June July 1991 in which Fuad Ajami said himself
	that he is Persian). Ajami harbors with his own admission 
	Pro-Khomeinist ideas. 

	Anwar Mohammad by his own admisdsion said that he is fond of
	Fuad Ajami and likes his ideas. Mr Anwar Mohammad quoted  Mr
	Fuad Ajami as an Arab which is not true. If you want to answer
	this question please do talkining about hate and love is a
	childish manner. I have no reason to hate or love Kuwait. The 
	only country in the world that I am loyal to is this Country 
	the UK.

	As you said it my friend I have no vested interest in you as
	a Kuwaiti or as a country you live your life and I am living my
	life. I was talking about Hypocrits like Mr Anwar Mohammad who
	is using this conflict between Iraq and Kuwait to promote
	Khomeinist hidden agenda.

	You already entered this field of discussion please tell us
	where do you stand from this issue. Neither the Emir nor
	Al-Sabah will trust people like Mr Anwar Mohammad and His 
	Khomeinist ideas. 

	I will assure you my friend I will be standing by Kuwait and 
	I will support Kuwait in the future when the Khomeinist gangs
	turn thaeir hate to Kuwait. We all still remeber the attack on
	the Western Embassies on Kuwait by Khomeinist Thugs. We do not
	hate my friend we stood by Kuwait while people like Anwar
	Mohammad  who harbors Khomeinist ideas were cheering the 
	Khomeinist thugs if not in the open in the dark. This is why
	Al-Sabah do not trust people like him and will never do.

A Jaber
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Re: What price for peace?
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 18:24:35 GMT

In article <cd-mt2c.analyst@netcom.com> analyst@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>Nabil Idriss seems to be engaging in a massive revisionist operation about
>the 1948 war. I was an adult then, and can tell you what happened. The UN
>voted to establish the state of Israel. No sooner did the Israelis
>proclaim that state then they were attacked from all sides by the Arabs,
>who swore to drive them into the sea. This is as well documented as
>the holocaust itself, and no amount of revisionist writing will
>change the historical facts.
>
>As for Arabs leaving their homes, many may tell a different story today,
>but at the time Arab leaders urged them to leave so they would not
>be in the way of the advancing Arab troops, and promised that they
>would get their homes back and a thousandfold more. Unfortunately,
>it didn't turn out that way, and now we have a lot of sore losers
>telling stories of being driven from their homes.
>
>David
>
>-- 
>David Sternlight        David Sternlight Inc.        email:analyst@netcom.COM


No, If you were an adult at the time, so was my father. The main reason most
of the Arabs fled their homes was because of the Massacres they heared about
at Der Yassin and other villages. Yes, some arabs flee at the advice of the 
Arabs, but the majority flee from the fear of getting the same fate of the 
villagers of Der Yassin. My father told me, my grandfather told me, my uncle
told me, my aunt told me. 
-- 
Nabil Idriss                           |       FOR EVERY ACTION AN OPPOSITE  
NCR - Midrange Products Division       |       AND EQUAL REACTION.
      Columbia, South Carolina         |      
email: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM |
From: analyst@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Israel Cancels Building in the West Bank
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:38:40 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


Despite this announcement, Syria has said it won't do anything in
return. Since it takes Syria for the Arab Boycott to be cancelled,
this is tantamount to saying that won't happen.

How long will it be before the State Department realizes that
Assad is a bloodthirsty fascist dictator bent on territorial
conquest (can you say "Lebanon", boys and girls?) and that both
we and the Israelis will eventually have to fight him? Baker
needs to have his head examined if he thinks he can get Assad
to be cooperative voluntarily.

-- 
David Sternlight        David Sternlight Inc.        email:analyst@netcom.COM
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Arf slanders me 
From: tb13@ellis.uchicago.edu (leon joel gross)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 13:45:57 GMT
Reply-To: tb13@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Jul27.050936.18879@ddsw1.mcs.com> arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) writes:
>tb13@ellis.uchicago.edu (leon joel gross) writes:
>: In article <1992Jul17.134156.1665@ddsw1.mcs.com> arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) writes:
>: >In article <1992Jul16.151815.15416@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>: >>analyst@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>: >>#
>: >>#In his latest message, Mutlu uses the word "wieneramus." Is it my
>: >>#imagination or has that word been used frequently by the neo-Nazi
>: >>#anti-semite ARF.  
>: >>
>: >>As an avid ARF collector (we all have our little problems) I have to
>: >>say I have never seen him use this word. The rest of your description
>: >>is true, though.
>: >>
>: >>The two "ARF words" are "chutzpanazi" (meaning anyone who doesn't agree
>: >>with him) and "holomanic" (shamelessly stolen from Bradley "BS" Smith).
>: >
>: >>-Danny Keren.a
>: >ARF says:
>: >
>: >Not quite.  A Chutzpanazi is one who calls critics of Israel antisemites.
>: >You are an excellent example of the genus.  My apology to BS,. I thought I
>: >coined the term.
>: >
>: >arf
>: 
>: Arf lies again.  He has called people Chutzpanazis who didn't call other
>: people anti-Semities, or didn't do it because they were reacting to
>: criticism of Israel.
>: 
>: Arf, I'm still waiting for the apology for when you called me a 
>: "hatemongering liar"  and you also owe the net the apology you 
>: promised if we could prove that you wrote that Jews control the
>: media.
> ARF says:
>
>And I am waiting for you to apologize for having obscene conversations with
>my telephone answering machine.  Why do you keep calling it a Nazi F---?
>It's on three years old.

I have never called your answering machine or your phone number. 
I have no idea what your are talking about.  If you are getting 
obscene phone calls then call the police, the tape you have is
evidence.  Your phone # isn't even in the Phone book I have, so the
only place I would have seen it is when you posted it, and I haven't
saved that post or copied the number down.  I have never called you a
Nazi on the net or anywhere else. And I didn't start using Usenet
until January of this year, so I never heard about you or read anything
you had written till then, so the 3-year things makes no sense.   

ARF, I don't know if you are just lying here, or being paranoid, or
what.  But you accused me of a crime.  You have 24 hours to retract it.
I have never called you.  I'll sign an affidavit or take a polygraph.
If you tell the police or anyone else that *I* called you, you better
have the best lawyer in the city, because I will sue you and I will win.

I have no intention of calling you, so don't expect a call from me.
But you might get a call from my lawyer.   

Leon Gross
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
From: friedenb@egr.msu.edu ( Gedaliah Friedenberg )
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Zachary Baumel
Date: 22 Jul 92 01:57:32 GMT
Reply-To: friedenb@egr.msu.edu ( Gedaliah Friedenberg )
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: Michigan State University
Originator: friedenb@frith.egr.msu.edu


Does anyone know the status of Zachary Baumel?  His tank was ambushed
and he was captured by the Lebanese (I think?) approximately 12 years
ago.  

Zack and a few other Israeli soldiers were known to be alive a few
years ago because (contrary to international law) they were put in a
miliraty parade in shackles amd blindfolds.

Zack holds (held?) American citizenship.

It aggrevates me that the world press is so greatful that _all_ of the
western hostages have been released from the Arab countries which held
them.  But, since Zack is "western" as well, he seems to be
overlooked.  Especially since he has been held captive for much longer
than the other hostages who were thankfully released in the last year.

I do not feel that because Zack was fighting for the Israeli army that
this gives the US the right to abandon one of its citizens.  

I was going through a box of High School stuff and found a button with
his pictures and the acronym POW on it.  I made me remember how
disgracefully this country can treat it's citizens.


Gedaliah Friedenberg
-=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
-=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science
-=-Michigan State University
From: analyst@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: IRAQ & UN Inspection - what next?
Date: 23 Jul 92 10:13:39 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


Of course the basic point is that as the loser, Saddam doesn't get to
decide what the terms mean; the U.N. does. He needs to be taught this
in a way that will get his attention.

I think there'd be a lot of support for such a lesson in the U.S.

-- 
David Sternlight        David Sternlight Inc.        email:analyst@netcom.COM
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: FACTS EVERY ISRAEL BASHER MUST AVOID!
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:32:45 GMT
	<1992Jul22.055738.8110@mcs.kent.edu>
	<1992Jul22.130849.1050@wpi.WPI.EDU>
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute
In-reply-to: nyh@wpi.WPI.EDU's message of 22 Jul 92 13:08:49 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.130849.1050@wpi.WPI.EDU> nyh@wpi.WPI.EDU (Nevo Y Hed) writes:
>
> look at the video for what it gives you - people standing above the
> wall throwing stones down on people that had nothing to do with any
> rally!!!

I'm sorry Mr. Nevo, but *you* have apparently not looked at the video --
at least not carefully enough.  First, it does not show any person
actually throwing stones, it shows stones being thrown from behind the
wall on the Haram side and landing on the other side of the wall.
Second, it does not show the stones coming down on people -- in fact,
they didn't.  Everyone had already left the western wall area before the
stone throwing started.  You couldn't have missed the fact that there
were no injuries -- certainly an amazing thing to have (not) happened if
such a shower of stones really fell on the 30,000 people who some
Israelis falsely claim were present at the time.

Now the Israeli propagandists justify their need to fire on the Arabs by
the need to protect the people being supposedly showered with stones.
Now that we realize there were actually no people in any such danger, we
see that somebody was lying.  What else is new?
--
Yigal Arens   "He seems like an average type of man.  He's not, like, smart.
USC/ISI        I'm not trying to bag on him or anything, but he has the same
arens@isi.edu  mentality I have -- and I'm in the eighth grade."     Vanessa
               Martinez, after VP Quayle's visit to her school-LA Times 5/21
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Hezbollah Base To Fall Under Lebanese Army Control
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:51:18 GMT

reposted from soc.culture.iranian (thanks to Babak Sehari):

PRO-IRANIAN HEZBOLLAH TO HAND OVER MAIN BASE TO LEBANESE ARMY

BAALBECK, LEBANON (JULY 27) UPI - The pro-Iranian Hezbollah began Monday to
evacuate its main base in eastern Lebanon in preparation for handing it over to
the Lebanese army, security sources said.

The move was in line with a government plan to regain control of all public
institutions that have been used as bases for the various militias during 16
years of civil war.

Witnesses said Hezbollah trucks loaded with ammunition and weapons as well as
military vehicles including tanks were seen leaving the Sheikh Abdallah
barracks, the main Hezbollah base, near the ancient city of Baalbeck, 52 miles
east of Beirut.

Hezbollah seized the barracks from the Lebanese army in 1983. The base was
later used as the military headquarters of some 1,500 Iranian Revolutionary
Guards who provided training and political guidance for the Hezbollahis.

An army communique released late Sunday said the army troops would take control
of the barracks within hours. It said the eviction of militias from government
institutions was part of a week-long plan to take over all public property.

The plan started last Thursday and will continue until next Thursday with the
takeover of the Hezbollah base.

Security sources said contacts were under way between Syria and Iran to
convince Hezbollah leave the barracks peacefully.

The sources said the fundamentalist group would need more than 10 days to
withdraw all its military equipments from the barracks.

A number of Westerners held hostage for many years in Lebanon were believed to
have been detained at the Sheikh Abdallah barracks.

The army has so far evicted the Christian hard-line Lebanese Forces militia
from its headquarters in Beirut's district of Karantina and Shiite and Sunni
fundamentalists from bases in northern and southern Lebanon.

The Progressive Socialist Party of Druze leader Walid Jumblat also handed over
the presidential summer resort of Beit Al Dine in the Shouf mountains.


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Radio Host Fired After Jewish Prote
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:55:12 GMT
	<1992Jul23.182600.16986@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
	<1992Jul23.214038.479@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute
In-reply-to: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu's message of 23 Jul 92 21:40:38 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.214038.479@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein) writes:
>
> There's a difference between dealing with Nazis and colluding with them.
> I've heard some Palestinian Arabs claim that Shamir was effectively
> negotiating with the PLO terrorists, but I haven't heard of them believing
> that he was colluding with THEM!

As I've already pointed out, the only thing that saved Shamir from
collusion with the Nazis was that the latter were not interested.
Shamir, for his part, offered to fight on the Nazi side in the war.

Look, if Shamir's name was an Arabic one, you and your cohort would have
declared him an outright Nazi long ago, based on what we know of his
actions during that period.  You might as well admit it.
--
Yigal Arens   "He seems like an average type of man.  He's not, like, smart.
USC/ISI        I'm not trying to bag on him or anything, but he has the same
arens@isi.edu  mentality I have -- and I'm in the eighth grade."     Vanessa
               Martinez, after VP Quayle's visit to her school-LA Times 5/21
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Israel Cancels Building in the West Bank
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 00:23:20 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.145638.8927@dscomsf.desy.de> hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
>In article <BrywrI.Hpq@watserv1.waterloo.edu>,
>idfriedm@hertz.waterloo.edu (id friedman) writes:

>|> The Arab countries promised the end of the boycott for the stopping
>|> of settlements. Israel has agreed to the latter.

>No, this is not the case. Israel has temporarily ceased to issue new
>contracts in some of the occupied teritories. They have not made an
>undertaking not to resume.

It would seem appropriate, then, for the Arabs to cease their boycott
of Israel - temporarily, of course.

Saudi Arabia, say, could sell a shipment of oil to Israel.  At regular 
market rates.  They wouldn't be giving Israel anything.  They'd be making
money out of it, not that they really need it.

>The conditions for the ending of the Arab boycott are rather more
>substantial than mere suspension of building settlements. 

Why should they be?  It could equally well be said that the suspension 
of settlement-buildind is rather more substantial.  In fact, it took a
change of government in Israel.  Let's face it, a similar change of 
government in any of the Arab states would have required the killing
of at least one person, and likely several thousand others, as well.

>In any case
>the US granting the loan guarantees is ample reward for Israel not doing
>something that it cannot afford and is in breach of international law.

The Arab boycott of Israel is also illegal under US law.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com               Pat Paulsen for President
American-Occupied New York                    This year he has a real chance!
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.
From: ilyess@athena.concordia.ca (Ilyess Bdira)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Arabs are very cheap
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:24:59 GMT
Organization: ECE - Concordia University

In article <1992Jul20.070719.25877@discus.technion.ac.il> davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami) writes:
 
 BUT this will not work in practice because the Arabs are VERY cheap and
 the Jews are very picky in jobs. Whenever there is a temporary Close of

Hopefully not for long... Your statement is a very appreciated justification
of the Hamas platform.     

When Arabs and Arab blood become less cheap, then Israel would not
feel so arrogant, I can almost assure you that this will happen very soon
(Maybe in your lifetime if you are less than 40 years old).