HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: POSTMASTER@MC.DUKE.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: switch box to switch keyboard between 2 computers?
Date: 9 Oct 92 02:49:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: mc.01GPPYZDXYUQ005H25
Distribution: world
Organization: Duke University Medical Center, Durham NC, USA

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UNSENT MAIL!                            
NO NAME SPECIFIED!                      
From:	BITNET::INFO-APPLE@APPLE.COM
To:	
Subj:	Re: switch box to switch keyboard between 2 computers?

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To:
From: herbertf@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Herbert Fung)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: //c and Apple 3.5 drive
Date: 15 Oct 92 22:38:06 GMT
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #3, Edmonton, AB, Canada

I tried to hook up my Apple 3.5 drive to my friend's //c but I can't seem 
to get it to work. I tried PR#5 but it didn't work. PR#7 turned on the 
light but didn't read or boot the disk. The eject button didn't even 
work.
Help?

Herbert Fung              herbertf@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: rwifall@nmsu.edu (Richard J Wifall)
Subject: Re: FTP site and SHK files
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<1bk6i3INNb9a@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 19:15:47 GMT

receiving binary files using Proterm 3.0's kermit binary mode has
caused lots of people problems.. I don't think it works correctyl.. I
would suggest either uuencoding or binscii'ing it up on your unix box
and then dl'ing it in kermit ascii mode..
					Richard
--
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=++=+==+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
|Richard Wifall - rwifall@nmsu.edu - IRCnick: TheJazz - Member GS<>IRC        |
|-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-|
|Ask me about DeskTracker, BorderBlinker, and a demo that Dave hasn't finished|
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar)
Subject: Re: gno & stuff...
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 21:11:57 GMT

digdug@iastate.edu (Doug V Tran) writes:

>In an earlier post, did someone say there was no shell-programming in GNO?

  With 1.1 we're hoping to have a csh language parser as a standalone
program for running csh scripts under GNO; this will be integrated into
gsh at a future time.

>What about a GUI interface?

  Not yet, sort of.  :)  We're going to have a shell NDA for 1.1.
-- 
 Jawaid Bazyar              |   Ask me about the GNO Multitasking Environment
 Procyon, Inc.              |   for the Apple IIgs!   
 bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu         |   P.O Box 620334
 --Apple II Forever!--      |   Littleton, CO 80162-0334   (303) 933-4649
From: bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Pipes in 1.1
Date: 13 Oct 92 09:08:13 GMT
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.

I just rewrote the pipe mechanism from scratch, and the results are 
astounding.  Below are times to execute the following command: 

cat sys.c | cat > .null

  sys.c is roughly 28000 bytes.

GNO 1.0: 61 seconds
GNO 1.1:  2 seconds

  I get my ribbon for the evening :-) 
(DANGER: EGO ZONE EXCEEDING NORMAL SPACETIME LIMITS! EVACUATE AT ONCE!)

  GNO 1.1 will be really nice, if I do say so myself. :)
-- 
 Jawaid Bazyar              |   Ask me about the GNO Multitasking Environment
 Procyon, Inc.              |   for the Apple IIgs!   
 bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu         |   P.O Box 620334
 --Apple II Forever!--      |   Littleton, CO 80162-0334   (303) 933-4649
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: mdavis@pro-sol.cts.com (Morgan Davis)
Subject: Re: Postscript
Organization: ProLine [pro-sol], Rancho San Diego, CA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 14:46:51 PDT

You could probably write a macro for MicroEMACS that would take out
all the text from PostScript's show operator and place it into a buffer.
The show operator takes whatever is on the stack and prints it as text.
Example:

        (This is a test) show


 /\/\  Morgan Davis Group (619/670-0563)
/ /__\  Internet: mdavis@pro-sol.cts.com
From: jamesb@ecst.csuchico.edu (James L. Brookes)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Re: Installer
Keywords: Installer
Date: 13 Oct 92 02:06:42 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: hairball.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <1992Oct12.201057.5348@utstat.uucp> philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:
>>the 1.0 release to be more u*ix-ish.  Hopefully, my installer program will
>>make installing 1.1 much simpler than installing 1.0 ;)
>
>It would be nice to have something along the lines of the way things are now
>installed on the NeXT. A package gets installed. A script is sent to a
>library of packages currently installed. And, one has a deinstaller.They also
>have a compactor which deinstalls the program to an installer package on
>the hard drive for later installation. When programs get complicated removing
>them is often as hard as installing them.
>

It sounds interesting, but it also sounds like a huge amount of work.  If
someone could get me some more details on the actual mechanics behind what
they are doing, perhaps I could do something similar - but please don't
expect anything beyond a functional installation program.  Remember - I'm
doing this on my own time :-)

Also, remember that this isn't a NeXT - we have to assume a lowest common
denominator here, and frankly most people can't afford to keep old packages
around on their Hard Drive.  

>
>Philip McDunnough
>philip@utstat.toronto.edu
>
-- 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
|          James Brookes            | Inet: bb252@cleveland.freenet.edu |
|``What, me worry?'' - A. E. Neuman |   jamesb@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu |
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
From: sk2f+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth D. Kadesh)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: where we are
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:33:17 GMT
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

sometimes i feel out of touch with what's going on - can we get a
"where we are now, and where we're going to" post?  (with regards to
gno - i don't expect anyone to know where i'm going.....)

  seth ---> sk2f@andrew.cmu.edu
From: derek@slab.slip.uiuc.edu (Derek Taubert)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Re: gno & stuff...
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:43:53 GMT
Reply-To: dat33228@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Organization: Damage Inc.

In article <fmlin.1wiu@terapin.com> fmlin@terapin.com (Frank M. Lin)  
writes:
> I have some questions about GNO...

I have some answers.  :-)

> How is GNO implemented?  I mean, is it just a shell with unix style commands (
> it does multi-task, although I don't know to what extent ), or is it the real
> thing ( like AT&T SVRx, Mach... ).

It's real close to the real thing.  The heart of it all is an actual unix-style kernel.  The scheduling for processes switching is getting better all the time.  A lot of the code in GNO has been modeled after BSD, but it's all Jawaid's interpretation of it, optimized to run the best on the GS's specific hardware.  He's done a damn good job, if I may say so myself.

> More questions...

Ahh, even more answers.  I REALLY know about this question.

> When GNO supports TCP/IP, does that mean we can have SLIP accounts on our GS?

In short, YES.  (sigh)  I don't want to give it all away now, just trust me that it will be awesome.

> How's IPC ( inter process communications ) on unix different than GS/OS's own
> IPC and Mac IPC ( system 7 )?

Well, since GS/OS is single tasking and doesn't have "processes," there isn't any IPC for it.  However, GNO uses IPC very similar to the XINU operating system.

> What is "threaded" multi-tasking?

Since we don't have hardware support for virtual memory, it is not feasible to go about reproducing the program and variable space every time you fork() (create a new process).  Thus, something more analagous to a thread is created instead.  Still useful, and much nicer on the itty bitty stack space.

> Hum... PowerPC's OS - PowerOpen will be based on Mach ( same as NeXTstep ),
> with SVR4 layered on top of it.  I guess Jobs made the right choice...

Ooh, you know just what to say.  I love my NeXT.  :-)

Derek
From: jpenne@ee.ualberta.ca (Jerry Penner)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Re: gno & stuff...
Date: 16 Oct 92 04:43:59 GMT
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada

jamesb@ecst.csuchico.edu (James L. Brookes) writes:

>In article <fmlin.1wiu@terapin.com> fmlin@terapin.com (Frank M. Lin) writes:

>>What is "threaded" multi-tasking?

>When one task is split up among multiple processors, I believe.  I think
>it'd be rather tough for the GS to implement this ;)

Threads are light-weight tasks -- meaning that they don't get a whole
new copy of the environment; they share the variables (not copies of
them) of the parent process.  OS/2 has threads and I believe Solaris
will/does as well.  They are called light-weight as opposed to "heavy-
weight" processes such as you have used in Unix with fork() and
exec[ve]().  In Unix, forked processes get their own environment and
copy of the original variables, so you can't change the original
processes variables (or directories, environment variables) without
passing pointers through some inter-process communication mechanism.
With threads, all the variables are shared as well as the current
directory, drive, environment variables, etc.  At least that's how
OS/2 implements it.

>>How can unix be efficient?  Plus all of the stuff above the kernal seems to be
>>written in C.  Some systems also supports Display PostScript, where would that
>>fit in?

They have fast CPUs, fast busses, fast disks, and plenty of people
have spent time optimizing the code.  Furthermore, they have some
pretty good compilers for some of the systems out there.

>No offense, but this is starting to stray a bit from the charter of this
>newsgroup :-).  I don't ever expect to see many of these features implemented,
>in GNO or in any other micro UNIX.

Yeah, well... :)
-- 
Jerry Penner   jpenne@ee.ualberta.ca   Try a 1-line .sig today.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar)
Subject: GNO's FuturePast
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 03:44:20 GMT

I'm going to try (right!) to maintain a low profile on this newsgroup,
as trying to keep up with everything will be strenuous, to say the least.

So, if anyone would like to volunteer for the following two duties:

o	maintain a FAQ list
and
o	maintain a canonical GNO utility list

Separate people should do these, as either one alone is enough work
for a volunteer.  If you want to do it, just post here on the newsgroup.
I won't be coordinating this, as I don't have time :-)

--
Seth Kadesh asked where we are and where we're going.

We're at a critical mass point now.  Enough people have GNO that
it is self-sustaining, and there are enough technical people to
take up some of the duties of answering "newbie" questions about
the system.

The software is, admittedly, more potential and promise right now
than hardcore "do".  GNO 1.1 will begin to deliver on some of these
promises.  A few of the things we have planned for GNO 1.1 are:

Full remote access & login support, with user accounting
A _complete_ online documentation system, with printer support.
New Interprocess communication facilities based on message passing
New pipes, 1000% faster than the 1.0 pipes.
Pseudo-terminal devices for shell-in-a-window style applications.
Inclusion of all known ported utilities and documentation.
Complete printed documentation for all library & kernel calls and
  utilities
An installation utility (as James Brookes has mentioned)
A possibility of Internetworking support.  This one is still hazy,
  but promising.

These things we've done based on user input on the software.  We will
continue in that tradition now by asking everyone out there:
"What do you want to see in GNO 1.1?"  Unix is too massive a system
for us to guess what you all want next.

The changes log for the kernel and utilities (not counting the shell)
includes 143 items.  Many of these are bug fixes, many are new features
(too numerous or too small to list above).

All _registered_ GNO owners will receive update notices in the mail when
the time comes.  If you bought directly from Procyon, you're registered.
Otherwise, if you haven't already, get those registration forms in! :)

-- 
 Jawaid Bazyar              |   Ask me about the GNO Multitasking Environment
 Procyon, Inc.              |   for the Apple IIgs!   
 bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu         |   P.O Box 620334
 --Apple II Forever!--      |   Littleton, CO 80162-0334   (303) 933-4649
From: SAB121@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Security
Date: 16 Oct 92 05:34:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: psuvm.92290.013449SAB121
Organization: Penn State University

Hello again!

I'm in the process of gaining funds to buy GNO.  However, there is something
I would like to know first.

What kind of security features are being planned for GNO?  I've used unix a
little, and liked it a lot, mostly because it had plenty of security
features to keep other people from getting in to stuff you don't want them
to.

Since I live with 6 other people, all of whom have access to my computer, I
would like to see some sort of login procedure ala Unix that would allow me
to designate which directories they are allowed to access.  I realize that
with GSOS set up the way it is, it is very difficult to implement a full
scale security system (Can you say "Impossible!"?  :)

This would allow me to keep many files that I don't want them accessing
(such as my comm programs, "X"-rated files, etc that the average user should
NOT have access to without my express permission!), and still give them full
run of the system.

As a side note, and plans for Xwindows?  :)

...Sal
 ______________________________________________________________________
| Salvatore A. Buttice              |  BITNet: SAB121@PSUVM            |
| 1511 State Street    _____________|__InterNET: sab121@psuvm.psu.edu__|
| Erie, PA 16501      |  My opinions are my own.  They are subject to  |
|_____________________|   change at short notice.  PSU had nothing to  |
|_APPLE_II_FOREVER!!!_|___do_with_my_opinions,_I_formed_them_long_ago._|
|________________<This_space_intentionally_left_blank>_________________|
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar)
Subject: GNO and TCP/IP
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 07:05:59 GMT

philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:

>In article <bazyar.718936351@teal> bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar) writes:

>[Many interesting utilities available and to come for GNO...]
> 
>Forgot. I'm in the process of switching my current network over to
>Ethernet. Of course this won't be complete until the GS has TCP/IP
>support. Could GNO support this on Apple's forthcoming Ethertalk card?
>Moreover, if so then could one have access to backup programs, printing,
>etc...from non-GNO programs? For example could I simply back up my GS's
>hard drive to whatever on the network? Or, having saved a GS file as 
>Postscript use a utility (Todd's seems to work great) to send the file
>to a printer? Then there's the Postscript Level 1/2 issue?

  The Apple Ethertalk card evidently won't support software dealing
with raw Ethernet packets; this is unfortunate, but oh well.  There _is_
software available that lets Unix boxes act as AppleTalk servers over
Ethernet; I believe one such program is CAP (Columbia AppleTalk Protocol).
This is available free via FTP.

  As far as the printing/backup issues go, that's up to Apple, but
with CAP, I think all the standard GS/OS AppleTalk software works
fine. Todd can clear that up.
-- 
 Jawaid Bazyar              |   Ask me about the GNO Multitasking Environment
 Procyon, Inc.              |   for the Apple IIgs!   
 bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu         |   P.O Box 620334
 --Apple II Forever!--      |   Littleton, CO 80162-0334   (303) 933-4649
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: sledbett@nyx.cs.du.edu (Shawn Ledbetter)
Subject: Postscript
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 04:06:23 GMT

This might not be the place for this, but is there a shell command that
will strip Postscript from a file?  It's great that there is a newsgroup
--
  ___________ __________ _________ ________ _______ ______ _____ ____ ___ __ _ 
 |                                                                            !
 .   Shawn Ledbetter | sledbett@nyx.cs.du.edu | cg495@cleveland.freenet.edu    
 |_ __ ___ ____ _____ ______ _______ ________ _________ __________ ___________|
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar)
Subject: Re: Greetings!
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 20:39:52 GMT

lwv26@cas.org (Larry W. Virden) writes:

>You might have someone take a look at proff for a starting place.  It is
>a relatively small formatter, which takes a healthy subset of nroff commands,
>and which we got to compile on a MSDOS machine without too much blood and
>tears.

  Are you writing all this down, Mike? :-)

>As for awk - there are I believe 3 sources to examine - BSD awk, mawk and
>gawk.  BSD awk has a BSD copyright which has to be taken into consideration,
>gawk has the FSF copyleft which must be taken SERIOUSLY into consideration,
>and I forget what mawk's copyright status is.

  BSD awk?  I didn't realize they had theirs already.  I'll definitely
check into it.  BTW, we currently ship a lot of BSD 4.3-reno sources
with GNO; tee, tr, cat, Hunt the Wumpus, wc, and more.  I read
the various licenses and there's almost no restriction on the
distribution of the BSD utils. Since we're not charging for these
utils anyway...

>I believe that Elvis is one of the other vi clones that are popular on small
>machines.

 I ported that, too, but it is hideously slow under ORCA/C.  We'll try
again under lcc when that's done.

-- 
 Jawaid Bazyar              |   Ask me about the GNO Multitasking Environment
 Procyon, Inc.              |   for the Apple IIgs!   
 bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu         |   P.O Box 620334
 --Apple II Forever!--      |   Littleton, CO 80162-0334   (303) 933-4649
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: hockley@enel.ucalgary.ca (Dallas Hockley)
Subject: FTP site and SHK files
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 07:09:48 GMT
Organization: ECE Department, U. of Calgary, Calgary, Alberta, Canada

G'day all.  I'm having some rather inexplicable (for me) problems on
the pindarus ftp site.  Any help is appreciated.

Using binary mode ftp, and grabbing for example the Manv2.1.SHK file to
my local box, and then using binary kermit transfer from there to my GS, 
I invariably get damaged archives.  I am curious as to what is causing this
and how it may be circumvented.  Thanks in advance....

Dallas
---
hockley@eneli.ucalgary.ca


Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: stc7@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Steven T Chiang)
Subject: All this hype...
Reply-To: stc7@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Steven T Chiang)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 16:33:21 GMT

	Gee, all this hype makes me want to write some stuff for GNO.

	I guess I'll need to install Orca C and stuff.  Also, could
somebody direct me to Flex & Bison...

Thanks


Steven Chiang                  Order - DreamGrafix:  The ONLY 16/256/3200
stc7@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu       color paint program for the Apple IIGS.
America On_Line:  DWS Steve
Genie:  S.Chiang4              Apple IIGS Forever!
From: jamesb@ecst.csuchico.edu (James L. Brookes)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: A call for porters
Summary: Need people to port common U*ix utilities
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:53:44 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu

There are lots of really useful unix utilities out there that need to
be ported...stuff with source freely available (oftentimes GNU software)

So, is anyone out there willing to take on porting some of these utilities
to the GNO environment?  With the new libraries, porting software is easier
than before, but because Orca/C handles things differently from your average
U*ix cc (let alone gcc) it does take time.

Off the top of my head, here are some utilities that nobody is working on/
has ported yet:

   awk
   sed (old version ported, but supposedly it's pretty weak)(
   ckermit 5.0
   tail
   
I know there are many others, but I can't think of them right now :(.  If
you have more, feel free to add to thie list :-)

BTW, source for GNU awk (gawk) is available at most popular FTP sites, as
is GNU sed.

Before you start something, btw, I'd reccomend mailing Jawaid.  Some programs
(such as screen) require things that aren't there yet, but that might be 
added sometime in the indefinite future ;).  No point spending precious
time porting something only to have to scrap it when you find out there
is something you just can't do...

Also, there are some utilities that would really benefit from being written
partially or wholelly in ASM.  Compress being an obvious one.

So, I'd like to hope that there are some poeple out there willing to spend
time to port some of these programs.  Volunteer today! ;)

-- 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
|          James Brookes            | Inet: bb252@cleveland.freenet.edu |
|``What, me worry?'' - A. E. Neuman |   jamesb@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu |
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: Installer
Keywords: Installer
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 20:10:57 GMT

In article <1bcpr7INN2jl@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> jamesb@ecst.csuchico.edu (James L. Brookes) writes:

[ ]
>
>I'm currently working on an installer program to ship with GNO v1.1  As
>far as I know there are no plans right now to have an installer for 1.0.
>
>When GNO 1.1 is released, it will in all likelyhood require a full 
>re-installation of the software, as many things have been changed since 
>the 1.0 release to be more u*ix-ish.  Hopefully, my installer program will
>make installing 1.1 much simpler than installing 1.0 ;)

It would be nice to have something along the lines of the way things are now
installed on the NeXT. A package gets installed. A script is sent to a
library of packages currently installed. And, one has a deinstaller.They also
have a compactor which deinstalls the program to an installer package on
the hard drive for later installation. When programs get complicated removing
them is often as hard as installing them.

Philip McDunnough
philip@utstat.toronto.edu
From: gregt+@CMU.EDU (Gregory Ross Thompson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Re: where we are
Date: 13 Oct 92 05:17:00 GMT
Organization: Senior, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

"Seth D. Kadesh" <sk2f+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> sometimes i feel out of touch with what's going on - can we get a
> "where we are now, and where we're going to" post?  (with regards to
> gno - i don't expect anyone to know where i'm going.....)

  But Seth, I know exactly where you're going.  Straight to insanity.

  No, really, I second that motion.  I've been following the gno
discussions for a while, and I'm often forgetting everything.  How
about someone putting a file (or a set of files) onto pindarus that
detail what v1.0 can do (for those who don't have it yet), what v1.1
can do now, along with what it will hopefully have in the future
(although this could be good and bad.  The old 'promising what ain't
gonna happen' thing).  Another file listing all the utils that are
available, and what they do (looks like the next message on the group
is asking for the same thing).

>   seth ---> sk2f@andrew.cmu.edu

		-Greg
		 InterNet: gregt+@cmu.edu
		       or: gt0t+@andrew.cmu.edu
		 BITNet  : R746GT0T@CMCCVB
		 AOL     : GRThompson