From: amrk@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Andrew Markiel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: SINL finals (long...sorry :-))
Date: 16 Aug 92 02:19:19 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

In article <UeXLynu00awJ80vEZU@andrew.cmu.edu> "Robert W. Hill" <rh3b+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 15-Aug-92 Re: SINL finals Tom
>Holub@soda.berkeley. (811)
>
>> In article <713875790.18575.0@borman.res.andrew.cmu.edu> stimpy+@cmu.edu
>> (Rick) writes:
>> )
>> )Well, we could have just started a server, and had both teams orbit
>> )Orion for two and a half hours. Then the game would OFFICIALLY be
>> )a tie. Why not end with some sportsmanship? We already defeated
>> )Rank Scum, and now both teams are missing their best players. We
>> )just see no need to play a final game between subs.

Ah, but did it ever occur to you that we might see something different?

>> No, the game would not then OFFICIALLY be a tie, because the ruling body
>> (which at the moment happens to be me) could disqualify you both for
>> being weenies.  
Hrm. Generally, if someone is a weenie, and one calls them a weenie, then one
is being a weenie. Relax, Tom. We want to get something *accomplished* here.

>While I don't dispute the fact that Tom has jurisdiction over the SINL,
>I would say he is really being an asshole.  The situtation is this:
>
>NEITHER rankscum or AA can field a team of 8 players for at least 2
>weeks.  As I told Maroo (Amazing) at the beginning of the rankscum vs
>ogglies game, we simply couldn't play unless we played the next day
>(saturday, very early) or two weeks from that date.  Rankscum couldn't
>field a full team on early saturday, so that threw the saturday option
>out.  So, that places us in a difficult situation.  We could either 1) 
>play the game without most of our players, and it wouldn't really be a
>rankscum vs AA game or 2)  postpone the game until one week into the
>fall semester at CMU.  Neither greg, nor I felt it was appropriate to do
>that, simply because there is too much to do for the school year, and
>the fall INL.  We concluded that we MAY try and play a game later, just
>to see if AA could beat them again.  That is the situation, and if you
>don't like it, you can blow it out your ass.
>
I can sympathize with your difficulties, and understand how you feel about the
situation. Had the captains of the two teams presented their difficulty to Tom
and to the rest of the INL, and proposed their resolution, I can't speak for
Tom, but I would have argued that your analysis of the situation was acceptable
and that the proposed solution was the best that could be acheived under the
circumstances.
What annoys me, and others, and probably *really* pisses Tom off, is that
no one on either team felt the need to consult Tom, or anyone else, before
proclaiming the game a tie and the two teams co-champions. While the game
involved two CMU teams, it was *not* an internal CMU match, and in my opinion
the captains involved should not have made decisions on whether or not to play
the game without consulting the rest of the league. Maybe your decision was
justified, but you just assumed that you could declare the game a tie, without
bothering to consider what anyone else thought.
While CMU may have the best teams in the league, the league is not being *run*
by CMU, and a consequence of this is that people not affiliated with CMU get to
decide how CMU teams (and, of course, every other team in the league) should
play their games. Being better *players* does not mean that CMU players are
more qualified to *operate* the league, or to decide what should be done in the
case of unforseen complications. Most of the objections raised with these
issues are that some CMU teams have, and continue to, refuse to let a non-CMU
authority make decisions on how the league should operate, and how games should
be played. The savage flames resulting from Tom's anger have done little to
improve the situation.

It is my hope that, once the INL council begins to operate, we can all let them
handle problems so that concerns over the operation of the league are handled
in a fair and impartial manner.

-Grey Elf