HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: markf@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Mark Fenoglio)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Level limits
Date: 19 Dec 1992 00:01:16 GMT
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
NNTP-Posting-Host: pangea.stanford.edu
Keywords: four-way balance

Ken Jenks response:
>
>I certainly don't advocate that everybody play only human characters.
>But I do make sure that everybody knows the rules and their
>implications.  And my world's structure (or balance, if you will) is
>affected by those implications.
>
>The game balance may be "crap" in your campaign.  But mine is nicely
>balanced, thank you.  If yours isn't, you might try playing by the
>rules.  For a change.
>

Touche. Realistically, level limits don't affect characters until after
a serious amount of time (depending on class and race, of course).  Also,
the game balance in my campaign is also quite fine.  To each his own.
I merely point out that you don't need level limits on demi-humans to
preserve game balance.

Since I apparently wasn't clear enough on the population argument,
let's try again.  The argument goes something like this:

Two to four generations of elves means 50 or so human generations.  Right
away, over the course of only three elven generations, there are 
multitudes of humans.  *Most* are 0-level, yes, and have a distinct
disadvantage against the "basic" elven person with his/her bonuses.
However, even with only a tiny percentage of humans becoming of the type
which advance, they will vastly outnumber their elven counterparts.

And, experience tables make for much quicker advancement at lower levels,
even taking into account of the weaker status of characters at low
levels.  So, Elrond's advantage may be some x number of levels over
his nearest human rival.  But there are many, many rivals to his power.
So, a balance of power is maintained.

>...But what
>about half-orcs?  They reproduce even faster than humans, and without
>level limits, this argument would promote them ahead of humans.  Be
>consistent.
>

I forgot about half-breeds, admittedly.  I don't have them.  They have 
never made sense to me, for a simple reason: only parents of the 
same species can produce young capable of reproduction (at least,
that's what I always thought).  This makes half-elves, half-orcs,
etc. as a race damn near impossible to justify.

I always believed half-elves in particular were a poor adaptation
of Elrond and Elros from the Lord of the Rings.  In Middle Earth,
those of human and elven parentage had the choice of being *either*
human or elven, not combining the characteristics of both.

Mark
From: cb317@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stephanie J. Kessler)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Converting D&D Known World
Date: 11 Dec 1992 21:16:30 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Our gaming group uses Mystara as our realm.  We have the Gazs.
and the Dawn of the Emperors Boxed set, plus the new Almanac.
The most we've ever done to convert the game is in the level of
NPC's, using the ratios described in the Gazeteers, and sometimes
the magic items they have.  Everything else we pretty much play
the way it is (of course, in my world, a new country has been
added, but that's another story).
 
What exactly are you doing in your conversions?
-- 
The United States is a nation of laws:  badly written and
randomly enforced.     Frank Zappa

cb317 @ cleveland.Freenet.Edu
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?
Date: 16 Dec 92 03:41:08 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@unixd3.cis.pitt.edu

In article <1992Dec15.205216.19463@u.washington.edu> scythe@stein.u.washington.edu (The Grim Reaper) writes:
	[I say]
>>work wearing CLOTHES; they'd be just as distracting. Can a Psi work
>>in the winter, or does a hat distract him too much?

>We aren't talking about hats here.  We are talking about large lumps of iron.

	No we aren't. We're talking about helms, which were OFTEN of iron
but which could be anything from hard leather on up. And "large" lump of
iron? No bigger than a ski mask, and although heavier it's certainly no
worse than a football helmet. Never noticed that a quarterback has trouble
concentrating on the game (and if you don't think that doing a complex
pass play, focusing on throwing a ball while running backwards away from
large hostile people, doesn't require concentration, you've never tried
it.).

>And there's a difference between weight on your head, and the same weight
>distributed over your body.  Besides, the concentration required by pisonics
>must be greater than that for mages, since psis don't have verbal/somatic/
>material components to make powers easier.

	Not necessarily. The mage had to learn how to use his power, which
is purely the result of these arcane gestures and all. The Psi is using
an inherent power. Most literature involving psi powers, in fact, will
often emphasize that it can sometimes take more concentration to NOT use
a power than to use it, especially in emergencies (see, for instance, 
*Firestarter* or *AKIRA*).

	Psis, in my opinion, need no more, likely LESS, concentration to
use their powers than do mages.

>>	Your approach would make it easier to disrupt a Psi than it is to 
>>disrupt a mage. 

>Really?  To disrupt a mage, all you have to do it hit him.  To disrupt a
>psi, all you have to do is hit him.  The only difference is that 
>the psi has a lower speed factor...

	I believe that Psis have certain powers they CANNOT be distracted
from once started. And if just a helmet, selected and fitted to him, will
distract him so much that he can't even concentrate, then touching him
with a feather, or shouting, or talking, or even shoes, will distract
him too much. He'll never be able to use them.

	Note that people TRAINED in meditation and concentration can 
concentrate in almost ANY circumstance. In point of fact, the person
who responded to me that "hats give me headaches" would probably find
that he could suddenly ignore the headache and concentrate just fine
on fighting or evasive action, or even on solving a difficult problem,
if his life depended on it. Pain and distractions fade into the background
when large hulking threats descend upon you.


                                 Sea Wasp


                                   ;;;
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: PC vs. Player INT
Date: 17 Dec 92 22:50:43 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@unixd2.cis.pitt.edu

In article <1992Dec17.192503.5103@u.washington.edu> scythe@stein.u.washington.edu (The Grim Reaper) writes:
>In article <885@blue.cis.pitt.edu> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
>>	All stats I made open ended, since (for example) the carry and lift
>>capacities of the Strength charts were inadequate to properly describe
>>even some of the monsters (for example, Giants are supposed to act like scaled

>Hmm.  Doesn't that mean if you get hit by a giant, you're basically dead?
>Since a 24 strength has quite a large damage bonus, and giants have more than
>that.....

	It certainly does mean that you don't WANT to get hit by a giant.
I use the Arduin chart for strength; + to hits max out at +4 (except in 
cases where ONLY force, not accuracy, counts, like trying to penetrate
something so tough that only excessive force might work; then the to-hit
plus from strength is increased), while strength increases do extra dice
of damage; I believe that a 30 is +5d10 (don't have my books handy). In
other words, you CAN survive hits by these things, if you're high level
(and only high-level types want to be fighting large giants), but you
sure don't WANT to take the hit if you can avoid it. Dodge, dodge,
use Ranged Weapons, burn fortune points (luck points given to PCs
and special NPCs to allow them to evade really nasty shots...)!

>>	This yields a potential range of stats from 4 up to, theoretically,
>>48 (rolled 4 6's, thus getting 24; got a +20 bonus which was all added
>>to the 24; rolled an arduin special which gave a +3 on the stat).

>Hmm.  Well, that certainly changes things.  So what is an 18 int, for example,
>equivalent to?  It's 1 in 216 people minium.  It can't be 1/10 IQ, because
>a large city should have about 100 18 int people.  So what does an 18 int
>equal?

	If you insist on having an IQ number equivalent to 18, it's whatever
IQ is at the 1 in 216 bracket. That's about, what, 2.5 standard deviations
or something? (Don't have my stats book handy); that would make it around
a 137-140, since I THINK the SD for IQ is around 15. So an 18 intelligence
would be somewhere near a 140 IQ, probably. Say range of 18 is around...
135-145, perhaps. 

					Sea Wasp


Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: Level Limits
Originator: kjenks@gothamcity
Keywords: AD&D, races, experience, level limits
Organization: NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:05:17 GMT

In article <BzBp0G.IpJ@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au> kinsler@physics.uq.oz.au (Paul Kinsler) writes:
>Now I know that a lot of you guys *hate* the level limits [...]

Not me.  I'm a well-known enforcer of level limits to non-humans.  In
fact, I've been accused of being biased against non-humans.  But I'd
argue that most of my best friends are human, and I know very few
non-humans who can hold up their end of a decent conversation.

>[...] What I do want to know is if anyone has 
>"softened" the limits in some fashion (eg by doubling EXP costs to 
>rise to the next level), and how that worked out.

I've instituted the following House Rule...

KJHR> WISHES
KJHR> 
KJHR> [...]
KJHR> 
KJHR> One Wish can allow a non-human to exceed his racial maximum level by
KJHR> one level.  Note that the Wish doesn't give the character the
KJHR> experience or training to go up another level; it just by-passes the
KJHR> maximum for this level.

In actual practice, since Wishes are relatively hard to come by in my
campaign, especially for low-level non-human characters, this rule has
caused very few non-humans to ever exceed their level limits (I can
think of two PC's ever).  If a player were to attempt it, I might allow
Limited Wish to have this effect, and let a full Wish actually grant
both the level limit exception and the experience points to make that
next level.  But these are my rules for now.  There is no other way
for a non-human to exceed their level limits.

As an aside, I also would allow this method for characters with two
classes to increase their level in their previous class.  I had a
Bard (AD&D1) increase his fighter level that way once.  But Wishes
are rare.  Unless you're a really good friend of a lich.....

-- Ken "124% Human" Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office
      kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov  (713) 483-4368

      "Orcs are cruel and hate living things in general, 
       but they particularly hate elves and will always 
       attack them in preference to other creatures."
         -- AD&D Monster Manual 1, p. 76.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: tfpayn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: MAGICPUNK!!!
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 19:32:27 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1gsslgINN34s@agate.berkeley.edu>, c188-cr@po.berkeley.edu (Chua Hak Lien) writes:
> 
> Has anybody out there thought of using or used AD&D rules in a Cyberpunk
> setting, a la' Shadowrun? If someone came up with rules for
> decking, guns and vehicles, then it certainly would be feasible.
	[..]

	Wargamer's West (1-800-SAY-PLAY), in their Winter Catalog, has listed
(I don't remember which company, but I think it started with an 'A') a
conversion set, which will convert characters from any system to any other
system.  Yes, I'm aware of what I'm saying.  I'm just reiterating what it says
(from memory, I don't have the darn thing in front of me).  Check it out.

-- 

/  / // / / /  / /  / / // / / // / //  / /   /  // /  / / / / // // / / / // /
// // /  / // /// // / / /// /// // /// /// // // /// / ///// // /   / // // /
/  /  ________|\_______________________________________________   /  /  // / /
/ // |\_\_\_\_| |_____________________________________________/   / / / / / / /
// / / /      |/  / / //  // /  / / / //  /  /  / /  /  /  / /  /  / / / /// /
/  / /  /  ///  / /  /  Tom Payne *** Louisville, KY	 / //  /  /  /  / / / /
 /  //TFPAYN01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU   /  / INFTECR1@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU /// /
/ // / /  /   / / / /  ///  // (502) 635-2473 / / // // // / /////  / / // // / 
<><><><><> ARE <><><><> YOU <><><><> READY <><><><> TO <><><><> DIE? <><><><><>

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: bob@msc.edu (Robert Hanson)
Subject: NWP net.book
Organization: Minnesota Supercomputer Center, Minneapolis, MN
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:53:37 GMT


A Non-weapon proficiency net.book is currently (actually just starting) being
created.  This net.book will contain an index to all of TSR's current NWP.  In
addition, it will include new NWP created by YOU.  So, if you have come up with
1 or more brand new NWP, PLEASE e-mail a copy of them so that I can put them in
the net.book.  I will be accepting new NWP at least through January, so if you
want to take the time to create one between now and then, go right ahead; the
more I receive the better!

If you have any questions about this book, feel free to e-mail me.  If you have
specific questions about how the index will be set up, e-mail Tom Parker at
thpr_ss@uhura.cc.rochester.edu with your questions.

I hope to receive lots of new NWP.  Thanks ahead of time for your time and
contribution.

				-Bob-
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 00:33:46 -0500 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: bards
	<1992Dec12.000104.5430@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>


Yeah, there's definitely the "encroaching mondoness syndrom" here.  I
don't think UA was that bad though, it actually came close to
balancing fighters with respect to mages.  Then in 2nd edition the
Complete xxx books came out.  I agree with the point that it better
balances characters who are single classed (unless you are going up to
very high levels there is no reason, power wise, to not be a multi
classed demihuman.  And some people like a little bit of balance...).
On a side note, in our recent campaign almost everyone wanted to be
multiclassed, so to discourage this we placed a 40% penalty on XP
earned by multiclass people.  Interestingly enough we think they're
actually balanced now compared to single classers.  

With the complete psionicists handbook things got absurd:  do you want
your party to be telepathic and be able to mess with opponents minds
over the long term (psychic surgery), or do you want a psionicist who
is a priest, thief, and generic cool guy to have around?    Of course
the solution is to have 1 of each to balance out all the bards :-)

The complete xxx handbooks have had some good ideas for changing
things, but I can't take them seriously.  Take the spell "Choke" from
CW for example.  Here is a second level spell, doing d4 damage per
round, with a save for *half*.  Maybe I'm missing something but isn't
this doom for spellcasters?  You can't cast spells for as many rounds
as your opponent has levels, and god help you if he has it memorized
twice.  You want a defensive spell? Ok, take Fire Aura (also CW).
Kind of like fire shield, except it gives
you complete immunity to fire.  Oh, and if they fail a save opponents
touching you catch on fire that cannot be put out except by dispel
magic (or goes out in 2-8 rounds).  Pretty neat 4th level spell, but
why would anyone take "Fire shield"?  The only thing is that fire
shield can work against cold attacks, but I'm sure some crafty mage
will research a "Cold Aura" spell.  

In general, TSR has used the "if you wanna be tougher, buy our new
books" method of selling.  Unfortunately it works (note, *I* didn't
buy any of the above books, I use my housemate's for reference :-).

	joe
From: tfpayn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:39:25 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <783@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
> In article <1992Dec15.181755.11653@u.washington.edu> scythe@stein.u.washington.edu (The Grim Reaper) writes:
>>The reason helms keep psis from using their power is because the weight
>>of the helmet keeps the psi from concentrating. 
> 
> 	You CANNOT POSSIBLY BE SERIOUS! If THAT is true, no Psi could
> work wearing CLOTHES; they'd be just as distracting. Can a Psi work
	[..]> 
> 	Your approach would make it easier to disrupt a Psi than it is to 
> disrupt a mage. 
> 
> 
> 					Sea Wasp
> 
> 
-- 

	Com'n people, read the rules!  Why are Psionicists wearing so little
armour in the first place? METAL disrupts psionics, just like mages, moreso if
it's around the head.

	PAGE 16, CPH, 2nd Paragraph, 2nd Sentence.

	"But if the psionicist is wearing a normal (READ THIS) helmet of any
	sort, he cannot use his powers."


	SO, simply put a helmet, ANY helmet, on your psi-head and VOILA! one
mute psionicist.
	My $19.95.  Where the hell's my GINSU?????

/  / // / / /  / /  / / // / / // / //  / /   /  // /  / / / / // // / / / // /
// // /  / // /// // / / /// /// // /// /// // // /// / ///// // /   / // // /
/  /  ________|\_______________________________________________   /  /  // / /
/ // |\_\_\_\_| |_____________________________________________/   / / / / / / /
// / / /      |/  / / //  // /  / / / //  /  /  / /  /  /  / /  /  / / / /// /
/  / /  /  ///  / /  /  Tom Payne *** Louisville, KY	 / //  /  /  /  / / / /
 /  //TFPAYN01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU   /  / INFTECR1@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU /// /
/ // / /  /   / / / /  ///  // (502) 635-2473 / / // // // / /////  / / // // / 
<><><><><> ARE <><><><> YOU <><><><> READY <><><><> TO <><><><> DIE? <><><><><>

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: bradley@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Kevin Bradley)
Subject: Re: New XP System for 1st Ed. AD&D?
Organization: Boeing Computer Services
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:49:46 GMT

<1992Dec9.211307.10711@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> <11DEC199214015512@rigel.tamu.edu>
Distribution: world
Organization: Boeing

I run what someone termed an AD&V (Advanced Dungeons and Variants) 1st Ed.
I consider it to be an Alternate Prime Material Plane from the Manual of
the Planes book.

One of the things I do is give 14 XPs per spell level for each spell
cast in need.  (ie. Casting Cure Light Wounds in town to raise money
for the party or to tythe, is not rewarded with XPs.  Cure Light Wounds
cast immeadiatly after a combat is.)  Also, I reward use of non-weapon
proficiencies with XPs.

I have attempted to have an objective alignment system.  Being Lawful
means the Orderly Progress of Society is more important than the
Individual, Chaotic is the Individual Rights above all else, and Neutral
is recognizing a balance between the two.  Being Good/Evil is a directly
related to harming humans/demi-humans.  If you would only kill someone
in self-defense, your good.  (Note that this standard is not applied to
monsters or humanoids.)  There is also a distinction made between True
Neutral (passive) and Neutral Neutral (active balance).

The reason for mentioning the alignments is that the system I use for
XPs in my run depends on the characters alignment and the interaction
with other alignments.  If you are CG and you help someone else that
is CG with a Cure Light Wounds spell, you would get XPs equal to 4
times the number of points of aid given plus a bonus of 10 points.  If
the character helped was of LE alignment, then you get 1 times the points
minus 10 XPs.  I have made a 3X3 grid for each of the 10 alignments
(TN and NN are different) with multiples for help and harm and bonuses.
This system is design to simulate the watchful powers for each alignment
providing the XPs to their faithful followers.  (The more you HELP your
alignment, the more XPs you get.)

-- 
DISCLAIMER:         :    __  __  __        __ : Send EMail Replies to:  
 Opinions expressed :   / / / / /   / / / / / : bradley@bcstec.ca.boeing.com 
 here, are my own   :  /-/ / / /-  / /|/ / _  : or 
 and not BOEING's!  : /_/ /_/ /_  / / / /_/   : uunet!bcstec!bradley 
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: slip@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Doolie)
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?
Keywords: Make em happy 
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 07:28:27 GMT


How to imprison a Psionicist? I can think of several ways.

1) When he enters your lair, dump some Cereb. parisites on him.
    Sooner or later, he will be ripe for the plucking.
    You then keep him exhausted.

2) Drug him to his eyeballs.

3) Charm him.

4) Knock him out, and hit him occasionally to make sure he STAYs out.

5) Knock him out, then put him in a coma.

6) Knock him out, then let Your psion work on his psych.

7) give him a cursed magic item that confuses him.

8) same as (7), but make it delude him instead. "Hey! who you calling
     a psion? I'm a dwarven berserker!"

9) Make him WANT to stay.  Succubi may be good for this.
   Just switch genders for Fem. psions.

10) Have his cell linked to magic mouths such that if he leaves,
  they tell the guards down the hall to kill the hostage NOW.

11) Same linked to a contingency series that kill someone in another
    room somewhere automatically.


Or use any combination of the above.

Any other ideas?

-- 
* Gordon Emore	          *   <Place nifty quote here>      *
* slip@sage.cc.purdue.edu *   < Or maybe not >              *
From: pmenard@cse.unl.edu (Patrick Menard)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Waterdeep info wanted
Date: 17 Dec 1992 23:42:39 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cse.unl.edu

cfrye@linus.mitre.org (Curtis D Frye) writes:

>I'm beginning to design a complex based on the Undermountain scenario and would like to use the materials referenced in FR1:  The North (not the full title) or
>FR3 : Waterdeep.  My question is whether or not I should pick up either or both
>of these supplements, wait for Volo's Guide to Waterdeep, or do my own thing to
>develop the sewer system of a section of the city.  Right now I'm leaning
>toward buying both FR1 and FR3, but I would like you folks' input.  I'll keep
>all responses on file and would be happy to email the results to anybody
>that's interested.

>Please post replies or send email to cfrye@ciis.mitre.org or
>                                     cdfrye@osprey.mitre.org

well, the City System has lots of great maps. and lots of info on the city
itself.(well, not lots of info, lots of random encounter charts, which can
kind of give you a feel of what the place is like)  I also have FR1(i think
thats what number it is) titled "Waterdeep and the North"  It has TONS of info
on Waterdeep and I recommend trying to get one at all costs.(Mine's not for sale
:)  It has info on all the heraldic symbols, all the guilds of the city.(sorry,
no thieves guild.(unless you visit MY Waterdeep (hehe, a LOT has happened)))
It also has a detailed history of the city, the government (Lords) and the
armed forces of the city.  It has sections on Gods, and also entries on other
cities(areas) of the North.(If you have the FR boxed set, it covers the areas
North of Waterdeep over to the Great Desert.(forms a nice square actually))
There is also an issue of Dragon which covered some more of the immediate area
around Waterdeep (which was omitted from FR1 for some strange reason)  All of
this meshes well with the Undermountain set.(which I also have)  Bottom line,
get FR1 if you can.

Shadow

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd