From: raman@cs.utexas.edu (Raman Rajagopalan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Religious Belief = Faith, a reply to S. Pandian
Date: 4 Sep 1992 19:43:54 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: bathtub.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Sep4.213950.20982@wuecl.wustl.edu> sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian) writes:

> Once SV noted that a vedic ritual
> performed on the day of the Bhopal gas leak saved a family from death.
> Majority of Brahmins buy irrational stuff like this or the ones published
> in Maniyan's "Gnaana Bhoomi". What I am saying is that though the Brahmins
> in general ( I know some people who are exceptions ) know almost     
> nothing about brahministic rituals ( the mantras ) and the meaning of the
> vedic hymns, they honour them, devote to them and observe all necessary
> rituals ( not with animal slaughter but with food, ghee etc.) as told to
> them by their priests.     

Are you an athiest?  I believe that you "TRUE" tamils at least have
faith in murugan and ayyapan.  And, when you advocate that brahmin
priests who are learned in the Vedas should be replaced with priests
who do prayers in Tamil, that at least indicates some belief in prayer.

Do you believe that whatever God you worship has any power?  Do you 
believe that prayer has any power?  Have you ever heard any miraculous 
stories that have inspired your faith?

I beleive the answer should be YES to some of these questions.  In that case,
why do you ridicule someone's faith that God had a hand in some
experience simply because the source is a Brahmin?  Why do you
feel compelled to make fun an activity that can only be justified
through faith?

I am a Brahmin.  I enjoy doing my sandyavandanam.  I believe in
the stories that it imparts a certain spiritual power.  No, I
cannot prove it.  Prayer is funny like it ... we won't know whether 
it is worthwhile until we die.  However, my faith in it is strong
enough that I'd be happy to see you doing it as well.  For starters, 
a poonal is not required.  Grab a book, in tamil, from your nearest 
bookstore, and go at it.  Explanations are also given.  I think
"please pardon my sins", "free my mind from lustful thoughts",
"let only good thoughts come to me, and let all bad thoughts leave
me", and "may god grant me the power of knowledge" are all good things
to pray and ask for.  I hope you won't you start posting articles
on the "silliness" of making offerings to the Sun, which is millions
of miles away.  I instead hope you can recite the sanskrit words that
express the good thoughts.  No need to be jealous of us Brahmins in this 
day and age.  Anyone may acquire any publically sold book.  Even
books on the pronunciation of sanskrit words are available.

Since you like stories about faith from Brahmins (you need something
to make fun of tomorrow, right?), This story's for you, my pal Pandian..

Want a story?  I had traveled from Houston to Memphis many times.
The day before I traveled in Nov. 1984, I had a strong feeling that
something was going to happen.  I sought out a friend who also
traveled that route and suggested we travel together.  I became
drowsy just before Texarcana, and thought I could push the 10
miles to that city.  I did not make it.  I rolled a brand new
car at 55 miles an hour.

My friend did not see me for a while, and when he heard of an
accident on his CB radio, he came back to look for me.  
First, no physical injury happened to me, and Second, my friend
was there to take me home.
Why a strong feeling the day before, and only on that particular
trip?  I believe there was a divine influence involved. 

That's my belief.  I am a Brahmin.  Go ahead, make fun
of me.  Then tell me that you believe in a God.  Tell me that
you want all sanskrit prayers replaced with tamil prayers because
God only listens to Tamil.  Then tell me
that you would not beleive that this God assisted YOU 
if the same incident were to happen to you.

Want a surprise punchline?  No, I don't think my sandyavandanam
saved me - I was not very regular in those days.  But, I did
have faith in God.  I think faith in any form is rewarded.
I also believe that faith alone is not enough.  One's day
to day activities and time spent in service to God also counts.
And you know something?  Doing the poojas on the prescribed
days is a form of service to God that can actually be enjoyable.

I see nothing wrong in the following sequence of "rituals"
that are common to all poojas (not necessarily in sequential order, 
and I may have omitted something here and there).

cleanse the items used in the pooja.
cleanse the place where you sit.
cleanse the place where the deity is to be invoked - the idol or picture.

invoke the diety.  give something to drink.  wash. give chandanam and
kumkum. praise the many names of the deity.  give doopam.  show
his majesty to all with a light.  offer food and paan.  offer
flowers, do pradharsanam and namaskaram and ask for blessings.

I see nothing wrong with this, but the fact the source is vedic
makes it evil in YOUR eyes.  That's your headache, not mine.
Leave me to my beliefs in peace.

>    Not many people know about what vedas are about. I have seen
> particularly brahmin boys chanting `purusha suktham', `rudram' etc.
> in temples. They don't know the meaning of what they chant. My articles
> on the vedas are to give an idea to the netters what vedas are about.
> They are not intended to spread hatred on Brahmin community.

Did anyone ask for this, or is this your crusade?  Please post
interpretations of the *entire* content of the Vedas, if you
wish to examine if it is good or bad.  I seem to recall that
the Vedas contain things like MEDICAL knowledge, MATHEMATICS,
ASTRONOMY, MUSIC, DANCE, and other arts like ASTROLOGY and the
use of WEAPONS.  By posting only partial interpretations, and
advocating that the Vedas are "worthless" or "crap", you are
only making enemies.

Don't hide like Mr. Vishnu under the veil "but those exact words
were not mine .. they were Mr. Kathiravan's".  My use of YOU refers
to all those who have been posting anti-vedic articles, and I
invite all of YOU to respond.  

Bottom Line:  If YOU people (intended pointer to a Ross Perot speech)
 post sensationalistic articles containing partial information, I will 
 definitely defend my beliefs.  I will feel happy continuing hate
 wars on the net.  I would much rather be accused of being communal
 than sit back and see slander spouted without response in a public
 forum.

 Start a mailing list if you want to examine negative aspects on the
 Vedas.  By posting partial information in this public forum, you
 are only serving to make me further concerned about the reservation
 issue:

 My God, what manner of person is being uplifted by these quotas?
 These idiots, in a senseless fit of jeolousy and hatred about
 events that happened a hundred or more years ago, are completely
 ignoring the good things from an ancient culture, and are openly
 advocating the complete destruction of that culture based on
 a few negative examples!!  What's going to be left of the culture
 I was raised in?  If these guys learn to read and write, they are
 only going to type sladerous articles on soc.culture.tamil,
 and the feeding frenzy from this may lead these guys to join
 in on the looting of temples and vandalizing property that the
 "graduates" have moved on to!

 We have to stop this before it is too late... What, the BC/SC/STs
 comprise more than 75% of the entering classes in college now???
 No!! We won't stand seeing our culture destroyed by the majority.
 Time to buys AK-47s and form a liberation army!

 URGENT APPEAL TO BRAHMINS EVERYWHERE.  PLEASE SEND MONEY AND
 YOUR CHILDREN TO FORM THE VEDANADU LIBERATION ARMY!!!!  WE 
 WILL START BY RECOVERING THE TEMPLE LANDS SEIZED BY THE
 ALLIES OF MR. PANDIAN WHO HAVE BEEN RULING TN FOR THE PAST
 THREE DECADES!!!

Oh, and Mr. Pandian writes, my goal is not to make anyone mad.
I hope I succeeded. Smiley intended.  But, see the length
of this article and the variety of concerns raised, should
tell you how mad you made me!!!

STOP POSTING SLANDAR if you truly wish hate wars to stop.  You
are wasting your time, and you are wasting mine (in this case,
two and half hours), by writing articles that are too insulting to
sit back and ignore.

Scared shitless that your kind controls TN,

- raman rajagopalan



Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian