From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: The meaning of "pagan"
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 12:55:26 GMT

lib1p@jane.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
: 
: Let me clarify myself a little more.  It is obvious to me that I didn't
: do a good job before.
: 
: Having someone as your god and following a set of rules or dogma are two
: different things.  For most the two are tied together.  However, because
: of the nature of paganism, it is possible to see the god or goddess in any
: archetype.  For this reason a person could be pagan and worship Jesus as
: a god.  But the "rules" of his/her belief are pagan, not christian.  A
: person who FOLLOWS the religion of CHRISTIANITY would not be able to to
: accept any other than "god" (i.e. the trinity and thus Jesus) as god.

If a pagan can be an atheist - a claim I have made that you have not
denied - then paganism is not a religion. It would be more of a "mindset"
or way of life. As such, their religion is incidental.

I also see few "rules" of Christianity, as a religion, that is in 
conflict with the "rules" practiced by pagans or Witches. In both
cases, it is a matter of interpretation of what is written. Try
reading one of the earlier versions of the Bible - as far prior
to the KJ version. Better yet, try to find a good translation of
some of the Aramaic texts used as source material.

Note that I am not using the dictionary definition. The dictionary is
often in variance with the actual usage of terms. As such, it is only
a general guide to the meaning of a word.

: A person has every right to refer to themselves how they wish.  However to
: say someone is a Pagan Christian is like saying something is an Apple Orange.

See above. No more so than saying a person is a Pagan Witch.

: >Why should people "let go" of Christianity? What is wrong with having Jesus
: >as one of your gods? Is the archtype to be rejected, just because some other
: >followers do not follow the teaching attributed to this deity?
: 
: I am not saying that anything is wrong with it.  In fact I myself use the
: bible for study and try to study what this man taught.  Jesus was a master
: occultist and philosopher.  I have a great deal of respect for the man.
: 
: I am simply stating a fact that some people, because of the teachings they
: have been raised with all their lives, have problems following their true
: path.  Usually because of some fear inside them.  I have seen this many
: times and felt it myself in my early days of being a pagan.  How they
: deal with it is up to them.  It is not my place to say it is right or
: wrong.  (BTW you injected that assumption.)  But they are either pagans
: who use Jesus as an archetype or Christians who are pagan-positive.
: Not both.

I am sure we will never agree on this particular point. I am not going
to repeat myself.

: If one belief says you MUST fast on Tuesdays or else and another says
: you MUST eat on Tuesdays or else....how do you follow them both?

Where does this conflict exist? Please give some examples. If you use
a version prior to that of KJ, you might be surprised how few there are.
For example, there is nothing in the 10 commandments that is in conflict.

... delided ...

: But is that like I know a few pagan's who have had the craft passed 
: down in their families for generations?

We are arguing this on another thread, I am not going to get into it
here also.

: > - at least, they use Jesus as one of their deities. 
: 
: The statement doesn't say that they can't.  Using Jesus as a diety and
: following Xtianity are two very different things. 

It depends if you follow the text that is supposedly the revealed work
of "God". If you do not believe it is, then there may not be any difference.
There is nothing in Christianity that states you have to believe the Bible.

: Might I point out that Jesus did not create Xtianity.  That came after him.

True.

: I might also point out that most of what is considered Xtian TODAY is not
: what the man Jesus taught. Also consider the fact that, maybe, just maybe,

Also very true.

: he taught additional stuff to his inner circle, the apostles.  Just a little
: food for thought.....

If he had any "inner circle". Some of the so called "disciples" were not even
alive during his claimed lifetime.

: I think Bill, when all is said and done about the "Pagan Christian" thing
: we are going to find that we agree...to some degree at least.  How about 
: this....
: 
: "all those who worship a religion that does not follow the principles of
: of the Judeo-Christian-Moslem base, but who may or may not use archetypes
: contain with in it."

Better - see above. 

Like many disagreements, I expect that it is more a matter of definition
than anything. That is why I have been attempting to justify my terminology.

: Gawd...now I sound like a lawyer....*shudder*.
: 
: Hey...does that mean we can create paganese (as opposed to legalese).

People are attempting to do so. However, the language is evolving fairly
rapidly. Not too surprising.

Bill
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc