HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich)
Subject: Re: Women and Men Witches
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 13:18:35 GMT

holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman) writes:

>Question: Have you read his book, or are you going on what people have said
>about him?

Answer: I HAVE read his book and every other thing I could get my hands on
about the `men's movement'. I have also seen him speak, and have seen
him in interviews. I base my opinion on the words HE has said. Not anyone
elses. I agree that there are many things of Bly's that have SOME merit.
I still feel that his basic message is counter productive. You may
disagree..that's OK.
What I am saying is that the men's movement to many people IS Robert Bly 
and his words. I also agree that many people perceive that Iron John and
Fire In The Belly are the only major works on Men's Issues and that they
are too few(the major works..that is ).

Blessings
Al

-- 
Al Aldrich	inet:aaldrich@encore.com
"..if you understood everything I said, you'd be me." miles davis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MY opinions are not to be construed as those of my employer.
From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Tipper Gore? (Re: the US elections...)
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:05:00 GMT
Reply-To: ailanth!ailsa@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Organization: Ailanthus Project

lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:

>    "Where Life Begins"
>
>
> I'd like to direct your attention
> To something that needs directing to
> A lot of people talk about
> Dining in and eating out
> I guess that's what this song's about
>
[most lyrics deleted]
>
> Colonel Sanders says it best "Finger Lickin' Good"
> Let's put what you've learned to the test
> Can you make a fire without using wood
> Are you still hungry
> Aren't you glad we came
> I'm glad you brought your raincoat
> I think it's beginning to rain
>
*chuckle*  i don't knwo what tipper thinks, but i know what *I* think!
i hope the music lives up to the words, cos i think this may become one
of my favorite songs!!!  *huge grin*

                                             -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                    ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
                                                        ________
I don't care what consequence it brings,        Silence \      / Action
I have been a fool for lesser things.              =     \    /    =
                                                 Death    \  /    Life
                                                           \/
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich)
Subject: Re: The truth about Tipper Gore (was:Re: the US elections...)
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:55:09 GMT

ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley) writes:
[ long and educational lesson in oppression deleted ]

>things they would like to see wiped out. And this warning label would not 
>only have been put on albums by obscure finge musicans, but was targeted 
>for Michael Jackson (sexual references), Prince (sexual reference and 
>blasphemy), Madonna (sexual references), Fleetwood Mac and all members solo 
>efforts (Stevie Nicks's religion was judged objectionable), the list goes 
>on and on....

Interesting that Fleetwood Mac become the band of choice for the
Clinton/Gore Theme song.. " Don't stop thinking about tomorrow.."

al

p.s. Thanks Ashley

Blessings
al

-- 
Al Aldrich	inet:aaldrich@encore.com
"..if you understood everything I said, you'd be me." miles davis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MY opinions are not to be construed as those of my employer.
From: michael@albert.bu.edu (Michael Chaplin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: I HAVE TAKEN THE SIGN
Date: 5 Nov 92 03:15:31 GMT
Organization: Boston University
In-reply-to: jmm25@po.CWRU.Edu's message of 4 Nov 92 17:30:39 GMT

In article <1d91bvINN905@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> jmm25@po.CWRU.Edu (Jessica M. Mcgeary) writes:

=*sigh*  I dunno.  I was always taught that Heaven is more like Robert Pirsig's
=Quality than anything else, in that is 'just what you like' or whatever you
=truly love best.  (My case, I would wind up spending eternity in a library
=or university, because I never wanted to know everything, just to LEARN and
=to understand... but I digress). [...]

Which does, of course, remind me of Laurie Anderson...

Paradise
Is exactly like
Where you are right now,
Only much, much better.

("Language is a Virus")

For the alternative, I provide the Principia Discordia's Hell Law...

The Hell Law say that Hell is reserved
exclusively for them that believe in it.
Further, the lowest rung in Hell is reserved
for them that believe in it on the supposition
that they'll go there if they don't.

(The Honest Book of Truth; The Gospel According to Fred, 3:1)

Ciao,
Chaplin.
--
=========================================================================
Michael A. Chaplin           If you want *their* opinions, ask *them*.
michael@albert.bu.edu ....The Einstein Papers Project, Boston, Mass., USA
chaplin@husc.harvard.edu ....Harvard University, Cambridge, Mass., USA
From: darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:50:32 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of California, Davis

In article <gate.LD0PTB1w165w@pil.UUCP>, alizard@pil.UUCP writes:
> 
> 
> WE WON!!! As I type, Bush is conceding. An important battle has
> been won. The war for America's future has NOT been won.
>  
> I do not know if Clinton is going to keep his e-mail address. I'll let people 
> know if he keeps it or gets a new one.  
> Areas to watch in a Clinton Administration:
> 1. Gun control. If you feel as I do that it's a bad idea, make a
> habit of contacting the White House...
> 2. Censorship. Tippe Gore is the Vice President's wife. She is
> potentially much more dangerous than Marilyn Quayle, especially
> as her husband, unlike Dan Quayle, is going to be allowed input
> at the highest levels of power.

How many times does this have to be said:  LABELS WARNING OF
POTENTIALLY OBJECTIONABLE OR OBSCENE CONTENT DO NOT CONSTITUTE
CENSORSHIP!!  Considering some of the lyrics found in what passes
for "popular" music, as a parent of two boys who will one day
be teenagers (not yet, thankfully; I have a few more years to
get ready!) I want some mechanism which allows parents to have
the information to make (if they choose) responsible decisions
about what their children are exposed to. I don't want to get into
a flame about metal or any other kind of popular music, but I do
have the opinion that there is a lot of energy in this music and
much of it is not positive energy. Kids who are "well-adjusted",
have good self-esteem, and a positive home life are able to deal
with this; many others may not be. I personally never found
anything objectionable with Tipper's activities in this area. 
"Free speech" has never been (and should not be, IMHO) an *absolute,
open-ended* right - there is a responsibility aspect to it which
is too often ignored. 'Nuff said.

(donning asbestos suit)

Blessings,
Richard (Tuneweaver)

>                                                  A.Lizard
> ====== 93 ====== mea saurus, mea saurus, mea maxima saurus! ====== 93 ======
>                   (slogan contributed by Jessica McGeary)
> Mail to me should be sent to:       |  There are no fnords in this sig file.
> alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM     |  autoreply to address I posted this
>      ^^^ preferred site ^^^         |  from only if you want to wait a
> PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard     |  solstice or two for my answer.
> alizard@seer.mystic.com(backup site)|              Kallisti!
> 
> 
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Subject: Re: Tipper Gore? (Re: the US elections...)
Organization: LLNL
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 23:12:40 GMT

In article <2B005554.20979@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>In article <1992Nov10.223303.28585@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
$ 
$ 	[On the whole Tipper Gore question...]
$ 
$ 	There is the interesting question of what to do about sexually
$ suggestive yet inexplicit lyrics, or even sexually explicity yet
$ nonhostile lyrics. Janis Maria Cortese complains rightly about Heavy
$ Metal and Rap "songs" that feature misogynist, sexually exploitative
$ lyrics, as if women are to be possessed and used for the (male)
$ singers' pleasure. But what about (say) this example? [It was taken
$ from Madonna's most recent album, _Erotica_]:

>[song deleted]

$ 	What would Tipper Gore think?
>
>I sure as hell hope that's a rhetorical question . . .

	Actually, I think it _would_ be nice to show these words
around to Tipper Gore, her fellow Washington Wives, and other such
characters.

	Without revealing the source of the words.

and even though
>you didn't ask what Janis Cortese would think, you're going to get it! 

>The problem that I have with it is the interpretation that it's bound to
>receive, and that's not so much a problem with the song as with the
>people who listen to it.  I mean, let's face it -- it IS where life
>begins.  Read "The Exaltation of Inanna" a little and you'll find
>sections that are indistinguishable from a Madonna song.

	And let's not forget some parts of Elinor Gadon's _The Once
and Future Goddess_.

	Just consider some of the slit shapes featured in that book...

	I guess if men can fetishize their penises, then women can
fetishize their vulvas. "My pussy has nine lives", says Madonna.

>When I hear/read stuff like this and think about how something like this
>-- quite nice and innocent -- has been so damned perverted into filth,
>it just makes me want to scream.

	I completely agree.

	Well, at least we can relish the sight of some bluenoses
trying to prove that they are not total prudes.

>I also highly doubt that Madonna wrote and sung the thing with anything
>other than $$$$ in mind; she is nothing so much as a master marketer.

	I disagree. I think that there are safer ways to make a lot of
money than show business. Like become some corporate lawyer.

	If there is one thing she craves more than money, it's
attention. She has _loved_ getting people's attention since she was a
little girl, and she has aimed for a show-business career ever since
childhood, or at least when she realized that nuns have no sex lives
(she was raised a rather extreme Catholic). She may be a little
better than an exhibitionist at times, but at least she's honest about
her exhibitionism.

>HOWever, if we are to take the song as itself -- which we should -- I
>don't find a problem.

	I agree.

	[On Madonna not being as good as Mae West and acting like
	nothing but a slut]

	Mae West may have been a very assertive woman, but a sex symbol?

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Women and Men Witches
Date: 6 Nov 92 07:31:28 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1992Nov2.032605.2358@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz) writes:
> kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins) writes:


>> I have never met a man who was not.  But I have really only met men
>> from the dominant eastern and western cultures of the world, perhaps
>> there are a few obscure cultures out there where this is not the case,
>> but I have no first hand knowledge of them.
> 
> I suspect this is simply a matter of Stephen not being able to *see*
> the good things in men.  If he's looking for scumminess in men, then
> he'll find it.  I suppose I agree with him to this extent: all men
> have some scummy traits, and I don't exclude myself.  I *DISAGREE*
> with him because he doesn't see that all women also have some scummy
> traits.

I never said I could not see the good things in men.  I do.  I have
met many very wonderful men, but all messed up to one degree or
another by life under patriarchy.  

I never said women lacked scummy traits.  I have been careful not to
say very much about women, other than I am a female supremicist.
Perhaps there will come a time for us to discuss women's problems, but
as men, I think we should focus on our own first before we try dealing
with others'.

-- 
___________________________________________________________________________

Stephen R. Figgins           |  There was an old woman
kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu   |  Who lived under the hill 
PO Box 1244                  |  And if she's not gone 
Lawrence, KS 66044	     |  She lives there still
___________________________________________________________________________
 
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: crime@grind.cheme.cmu.edu (W. Scott Shannon)
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Organization: Grind Systems, Inc.
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 15:16:24 GMT
X-Posted-From: grind.cheme.cmu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu


Hey all.. the election is  over.... does it really need to be
discussed to death too?
Maybe a new newslist for it? alt.politics?
I am only speaking for myself.. but I think the discussion has 
wandered a fair bit off of the pagan area...
unless I'm missing a connection? 
if so... please explain... if not... well... 
I think my third line says it all.

Scott
Live for now. The past is gone, and the future's too far away.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Subject: Re: politices
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 22:55:44 GMT

pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey) writes:
> Only one of Bush's record number of vetos was overridden.
> Maybe 2/3 is too stiff.

Definitely not.  All this means is that Bush didn't use the
veto enough!

Blessings -- may the president veto all harmful legislation,
regardless of whether or not he'll be overriden!

		-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	T. O. Radzykewycz	     	|  do as ye will.
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|
					|  "Just pray for a
	radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu       |  tough hide and a
	        			|  tender heart."
	        			|    -- Ruth Graham
------------------------------------------------------------
Tribal Mother was old, and lay ill on a bed of moss and
fern.   Her hair was long and grey.   Her face was very
wrinkled.    Tamura'nun-pa thought:   How beautiful you
are, Mother, so old and wise.
From: thistle@brewich.hou.tx.us (Thistle)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Pets
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 22:44:25 CST
Organization: The Brewers' Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

I haven't read all the posts, but since this seems to be leading to 
"non-standard" companions, I'll put in two cents for my wife and I.  We 
have a rat named Rowan.  She is a white/tan Chinese hooded rat.  We 
rescued her from the python buffet at a local pet store when she was 
about a month old.  She was skittish only for the first day or so.  In 
the year or so that she has been with us, she has never bitten anyone, 
and has piddled only a time or two.  Her needs are simple.  She lives in 
a large aquarium (wire cages can make for sore feet), and will eat just 
about anything.  We feed her rat food, but she does have a thing for 
bagels w/cream cheese and peanut butter.  Her favorite way to sleep is in 
an old sock.  She crawls inside it to sleep.  One thing we have noticed 
is that she likes to play in long hair and has a thing for cleavages.  
Please feel free to e-mail me if you want to know more.  Bright 
Blessings, Thistle.

------------------
thistle@brewich.hou.tx.us (Thistle)
Origin: The Brewers' Witch BBS -- Houston, TX -- +1 713 272 7350
     "Silence is the voice of complicity" - Vote Early, Vote Often!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Subject: Re: Host/Priest Communication:  What should I expect?
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 04:51:52 GMT

clr@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Christi Rockwell) writes:
- normally i would expect to be consulted on things occuring in my
- apartment, but i've gotten the impression from the priest that i had
- no right to question things (or question the lack of communication)
- and that any questions would be seen as sabotage.  is this what i
- should expect in the future, or with other priests i might work with?

Christi -- If I were you, I'd tell the guy to get lost, FAST!  There's
NO excuse for hir to go through a third-party.  Why does sie want to?
Does sie have something to hide?

If the ceremony is to be held in your house, you have the right to
have whatever stipulations and conditions you want to have, be they
whim, fancy, or logical reason.  And the "priest" has no excuse to
deny them without a full explanation to whatever detail will satisfy
*YOU*.

Dump this priest!  If you want a ceremony, find a different one
who's willing to talk with you in person and who's willing to
satisfy your requirements.

idfraser@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Ian Fraser) writes:
> I would expect to be consulted on all aspects of any ritual
> performed in my house (although, if it were an initiation, I
> might not require the same level of detail, assuming that I was
> the one being initiated)

I wouldn't even be willing to forego the detail if it were my
own initiation.  First, I don't much go in for surprises in
that kind of thing anyway; but regardless of that, if the surprise
were a necessary part of the initiation, then it would be much
better to have it at someone else's home.

Bear Blessings!

		-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	T. O. Radzykewycz	     	|  do as ye will.
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|
					|  "Just pray for a
	radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu       |  tough hide and a
	        			|  tender heart."
	        			|    -- Ruth Graham
------------------------------------------------------------
Tribal Mother was old, and lay ill on a bed of moss and
fern.   Her hair was long and grey.   Her face was very
wrinkled.    Tamura'nun-pa thought:   How beautiful you
are, Mother, so old and wise.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: lori@umbio.med.miami.edu (Lori Herrington)
Subject: Re: Breeding/Religion (was giving up and moving on) (was WomenvsMen)
Organization: University of Miami Medical School
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:11:25 GMT


As far as eastern religions go sex is acepted and pleasures are
considered an important aspect of life.

in hinduism their are four goals of humans. The  third one is kama which
is love or pleasure.  they have an elaborate manual called the kama
sutra ( you may have heard of this) which shows sexs as a beautiful act
of life.

As far as buddism, well let se their are the tantric buddist who believe
in the divinity of pleasure ie sex and even over indulging what ever
aspect of your life you choose...this is a bit over simplified but it
shows you that not every religion is close minded about the joys of sex
like the western world.  In the east sex and pleasure in any form are
fundamental in life.

blessings,

Lori

-- 
lori@umbio.med.miami.edu

******************************
From: wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: hate and anger
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:34:33 GMT
Organization: Red Wolfe @ The Wolves Den
X-Md4-Signature: 338f879cb063a5dc2d61c9cfc5d12aa7

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:
>>wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury) writes:
>>>
>>>Anger, hate and fear are all closely related and often accompany each
>>>other in the human emotional space.
>>>
>>Another possibility is that one can hate without reason, whereas anger
>>(theoretically) supposes a *cause* for the anger. By saying someone's
>>*hating*, they don't have to admit that there is any valid *reason* for
>>that feeling.
>
>Also, anger can be constructively aimed and used to solve problems, hate
>cannot.  Anger at an unjust system can motivate people to find
>alternatives.  Hate does nothing constructive.  At all.
>
>And I don't buy it that they're so intimately related.  When TMM leaves
>the seat up, I am pissed.  Hate, though?  Never in a gezillion years.

Well, hate originates somewhere.  I don't agree that hate can be for no
reason at all.   Most generally, it can be said that hate arises from
fear of something, fear because the hater doesn't know how to deal with
the object of hate, or fear that the hated thing is a part of themselves
despite their training.

Suppressed anger, a common problem as a result of the inherited Stoic
philosophies of the christian system, also turns into hate.  Self-hatred
and guilt are often the result of suppressed anger.

All these nice, vague, pop-psychology generalities :-)

As to the question of why hate?  Its similar to why love.
-- 
G. Wolfe Woodbury @ The Wolves Den, Durham NC	[This site is NOT affiliated  ]
wolfe@wolves.durham.nc.us			[with Duke University! Idiots!]
UUCP: ...!duke!wolves!wolfe      <Standard Disclaimers apply>
    Above All, we celebrate!  --Celebrate the Circle, Statement of Purpose.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.magick
From: eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun)
Subject: Re: Santeria and Voodoun
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 12:16:58 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago IL
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

>>mdouglas@netcom.com (Hokh'Ton) writes:
: eddie@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Edward M. Averett) writes:
: 
: 
:      >. . . [material deleted] but there isn't a Vatican of Truth in Santeria 
:      >out there anywhere.<<

There doesn't have to be. When anything is done or questioned, there's a
telephone these days by which actions can be verified. Of course provided
you are genuine and know who to talk to.

:      >It boils down to if you serve the loa, then you serve the loa.
:       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: 		[emphasis added]
: 
: 
: >			I serve the Loa, 
: >				Edward M. Averett
: >				Bunny with a Thousand Faces... 
: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
: 
: 	Mr. Averett, your post makes some excellent and unarguable points,
: but the above-quoted portion strikes me as the summum bonum of an attitude
: that I wish more people involved with Afro-Diasporic religions would take.
: Thank you for your insight. From one who also serves.
: 			Ache
:                      ^^^^^
learn to spell. Ashe is not ache. for according to the way you pronounce it
can change the meaning, from amen to menstruation. And there are no
accents on the net.
: 	
:Eshin-Fun
 
Newsgroups: alt.pagan